# *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability Thread



## bl4ckdot

Hype !


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## umea

hope their ripjaws5 heatsinks are actually usable and not worthless


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## pipes




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## anticommon

CL lookin THICC 😘👌


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## umea

Random note, the TridentZ5 series will also have non-rgb versions with the improved heatsinks over RipjawS5. Look at back two, black bar instead of RGB one.










https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1634179023/G.SKILL-Announces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


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## epic1337

question, why dont they make use of VLP pcb to allow for more heatsink material to stick out?
Crucial's Ballistix Tactical LP is one of such example.


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## Section31

umea said:


> Random note, the TridentZ5 series will also have non-rgb versions with the improved heatsinks over RipjawS5. Look at back two, black bar instead of RGB one.
> View attachment 2530045
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1634179023/G.SKILL-Announces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


I like the non-rgb version myself. However getting ahold of one is going to be tough lol.


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## umea

Section31 said:


> I like the non-rgb version myself. However getting ahold of one is going to be tough lol.


non-rgb looks great for sure. I probably will not be an early adopter but look forward to seeing the results of what people can pull off with them and the progression.


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## Section31

umea said:


> non-rgb looks great for sure. I probably will not be an early adopter but look forward to seeing the results of what people can pull off with them and the progression.


I have the DDR4 version in RGB and they look awful in white led mode.


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## umea

Section31 said:


> I have the DDR4 version in RGB and they look awful in white led mode.


Yeah I've had a pair of TridentZ and hated how they looked. had RGB disabled / would just remove them entirely if I were to buy another set of DDR4.


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## Falkentyne

6400 XMP @ 105k GB/s and 65ns latency already?


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## ogider

G.SKILL Reaches New Extreme Speed at DDR5-6800 with Trident Z5 - VideoCardz.com


G.SKILL Reaches New Extreme Speed at DDR5-6800 with Trident Z5 (28 Oct 2021) – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is delighted to announce yet another extreme speed DDR5 memory kit at DDR5-6800 32GB...




videocardz.com


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## cstkl1




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## ozlay

Ram keeps getting uglier.


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## J7SC

Falkentyne said:


> 6400 XMP @ 105k GB/s and 65ns latency already?


...This is why I appreciate threads such as this one ! While I won't be an early adopter (currently running DDR4 4000 / CL14 -14 -14), I'm hoping to see how progress re. DDR5 speed such as 6400XMP unfolds, along with latency improvements. Here's hoping for DDR5 "B-die like" kits to keep the tradition alive.


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## Solohuman

A popular online retailer here in Australia has 2 kits of DDR5 listed for sale & they are already sold out, this with no reviews or testing anywhere on the www. Also D5 mobos sold out yet no sign of cpus for them yet! 
What was that saying about "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" again?


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## 2500k_2

Some ddr5 timings.
On the memory force scale, I will say, based on my experience, that memory is now at the limit of a maximum of 6400 - 6500. The signal will weaken.


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530373
> 
> Some ddr5 timings.
> On the memory force scale, I will say, based on my experience, that memory is now at the limit of a maximum of 6400 - 6500. The signal will weaken.


thats one stick

source?


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## cstkl1

🤫


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## IronAge

These have Micron IC with 1.25V


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## cstkl1




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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2530491


double-sided arrangement of chips?
one stick has backlight diodes and the other does not.
If from one set then yes - double-sided.

By placing the capacitor on the processor substrate, you already have an alderlake sample.
Congratulations.
you will not violate the NDA if you answer the question - can Apex make it work on these CR1 sticks?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> double-sided arrangement of chips?
> one stick has backlight diodes and the other does not.
> If from one set then yes - double-sided.
> 
> By placing the capacitor on the processor substrate, you already have an alderlake sample.
> Congratulations.
> you will not violate the NDA if you answer the question - can Apex make it work on these CR1 sticks?


cr1 atm my rams no issue because of what i did with rkl 1T gear 1.
not sure it can be done on all chipset cause i need more test samples
alot of ppl ocing ddr5 oddly atm.
so kindda funny.


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## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> cr1 atm my rams no issue because of what i did with rkl 1T gear 1.
> not sure it can be done on all chipset cause i need more test samples
> alot of ppl ocing ddr5 oddly atm.
> so kindda funny.
> View attachment 2530493


Do you think temperature is going to be a big factor w/ DDR5? If I pick up ADL, I'm thinking I'll throw the RAM on water .. can't hurt I suppose.


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## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Do you think temperature is going to be a big factor w/ DDR5? If I pick up ADL, I'm thinking I'll throw the RAM on water .. can't hurt I suppose.


i am doing 1.5 daily temps seem fine
1.6v testing still

make sure u check contact for the pmic. 
had to slice off some pads.


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## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> i am doing 1.5 daily temps seem fine
> 1.6v testing still
> 
> make sure u check contact for the pmic.
> had to slice off some pads.


Nice!


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## kairi_zeroblade

Me wants DDR5 8000mhz cl24..lol..


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## 2500k_2

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Me wants DDR5 8000mhz cl24..lol..


Devoid of meaning
Since for 8000mhz you may need to turn on the Gear 4.
I think it's better to stay at the maximum frequency in Gear 2 / but time will tell


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## phillyman36

According to Asus memory support page everything is Micron except Gkill ddr5 5600 to 6400(F5 Versions).





ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global


Designed for the broadest range of the demanding fans, ROG Maximus Z690 Hero features 20+1 power stages, DDR5, five M.2 support, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 front-panel connector, dual Thunderbolt™ 4, PCIe 5.0 and onboard WiFi 6E.



rog.asus.com


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## Falkentyne

phillyman36 said:


> According to Asus memory support page everything is Micron except Gkill ddr5 5600 to 6400(F5 Versions).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> 
> Designed for the broadest range of the demanding fans, ROG Maximus Z690 Hero features 20+1 power stages, DDR5, five M.2 support, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 front-panel connector, dual Thunderbolt™ 4, PCIe 5.0 and onboard WiFi 6E.
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com


I believe 6000 40/40/40 something is Hynix and 38/something/something/something is samsung. And the 6800 CL38 is definitely samsuck.


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## IronAge

6400C36 from Gigabyte already wants 1.4V (Samsung), 6600C36 wants 1.55V.









Z690 AORUS XTREME (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com





Think i will pre-order G.Skill 5600C36.


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## Falkentyne

IronAge said:


> 6400C36 from Gigabyte already wants 1.4V (Samsung), 6600C36 wants 1.55V.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z690 AORUS XTREME (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
> 
> 
> Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gigabyte.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think i will pre-order G.Skill 5600C36.


Wait. 1.55v ? Is that a typo?


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## 2500k_2

Falkentyne said:


> Wait. 1.55v ? Is that a typo?


No, this is a safe daily voltage


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## 2500k_2

2500k_2 said:


> No, this is a safe daily voltage


Memory manufacturers want to squeeze out all the juices at the start of ddr5. 
Therefore, I would not be surprised if I see 1.65 volts 7200 cl 38 / something like "the fastest xmp Gskill". 
And half of the forum will buy it.


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## IronAge

Falkentyne said:


> Wait. 1.55v ? Is that a typo?


IMHO +150mV is a relatively high increasement for just +200.


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## IronAge




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## .651955

Excited to see ddr5 performance when oced!


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## 2500k_2

qvl z690 extreme





ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME | ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global


AX5400 Dual Band WiFi 6 Gaming Router, WiFi 6 802.11ax, Mobile Game Mode, ASUS AURA RGB, Lifetime Free Internet Security, Mesh WiFi support, Gear Accelerator, Gaming Port, Adaptive QoS, Port Forwarding



rog.asus.com




sk hynix top?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> qvl z690 extreme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME | ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> 
> AX5400 Dual Band WiFi 6 Gaming Router, WiFi 6 802.11ax, Mobile Game Mode, ASUS AURA RGB, Lifetime Free Internet Security, Mesh WiFi support, Gear Accelerator, Gaming Port, Adaptive QoS, Port Forwarding
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sk hynix top?


theres alot of samples still bring tested. so samsungs all will he added later. 
xmp are diff based on chipset. 

as i mention before there will be a xmp difference between vendors.


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## ThinbinJim

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454834848992923648
Intel XMP 3.0 lists up to 6666 40-40-40-76 at 1.35v on the Apex
Slightly outdated since G.Skill have announced 6800 kits a few days ago


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## 2500k_2

-1mhz


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530798
> 
> -1mhz


must be that kevin wu...
why even post this...

breaking nda with that geekbench.


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> must be that kevin wu...
> why even post this...


delete?


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## mongoled

Because people are desperate to see anything related to DDR5


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## jeiselramos

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530798
> 
> -1mhz [emoji38]


Quad Channel? [emoji848]

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## OLDFATSHEEP

jeiselramos said:


> Quad Channel? [emoji848]
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


yup, ddr5 2 sticks = quad ch.


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> delete?


nah dude
its literally teamgroup FAE posting this

@tforce this dude.

hci etc is fine.. but geekbench


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## iraff1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> yup, ddr5 2 sticks = quad ch.
> View attachment 2530799


Will there be issues running the same config with 4x16gb sticks?


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## 2500k_2

iraff1 said:


> Will there be issues running the same config with 4x16gb sticks?


yes and very large.
Jedek SR 4800 should work x 4 dimm
but if DR sticks * 4 are used then I'm not sure if the memory controller can work at least at 4800. (I think 4400 or 4000 is possible)
But maybe I'm wrong. Time will show.
In the picture, the declared frequency of msi 2 dimm board is 5600 only for 2 dual-rank modules. Too hard for the board? controller? Memory? Do not know.








@cstkl1 If you were not mistaken on ddr4 DR DJR, do you have a maximum of 5200 stable for rocketlake? Do you have a screenshot?


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## Nizzen

Apex....








G.SKILL Showcases DDR5-7000 CL40 Extreme Speed Memory


G.Skill is thrilled to announce that they will be increasing the DDR5 frequency even higher and demonstrating up to DDR5-7000 CL40 2x16GB memory speed....




www.guru3d.com


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## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2530826
> 
> Apex....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Showcases DDR5-7000 CL40 Extreme Speed Memory
> 
> 
> G.Skill is thrilled to announce that they will be increasing the DDR5 frequency even higher and demonstrating up to DDR5-7000 CL40 2x16GB memory speed....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com


Poor image quality . publish the original


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> yes and very large.
> Jedek SR 4800 should work x 4 dimm
> but if DR sticks * 4 are used then I'm not sure if the memory controller can work at least at 4800. (I think 4400 or 4000 is possible)
> But maybe I'm wrong. Time will show.
> In the picture, the declared frequency of msi 2 dimm board is 5600 only for 2 dual-rank modules. Too hard for the board? controller? Memory? Do not know.
> View attachment 2530821
> 
> @cstkl1 If you were not mistaken on ddr4 DR DJR, do you have a maximum of 5200 stable for rocketlake? Do you have a screenshot?


2dimm dr 5066c20 stable hci stable 1000%. but from what i know this ram is outlier. not normal.
5200 benchable. maybe if gone water could have but it was showing signs trdrd cannot run 4,4 with tfaw 16

ddr5 behavior diff bro. theres 2 ram voltages, ivr ddq, mem controller voltage and system agent.

theres odd behavior on adl gear 2 thats not the same as rkl gear 2.

default trefi for ddr5 is 1/4th of ddr4.

nobody has figured out everything yet on any chipset to give a definite answer on overclocking cause most of it is not cpu/mobo limitation but ram chipset.
again we only have one brand pmic atm. whether somebody creates a better one??
that also is up in the air atm.

hence even tools to measure the difference etc all still up in the air. for me its tm5 1usmusV3 cycle time atm which translate to the fps i benchmark.


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## iraff1

2500k_2 said:


> yes and very large.
> Jedek SR 4800 should work x 4 dimm
> but if DR sticks * 4 are used then I'm not sure if the memory controller can work at least at 4800. (I think 4400 or 4000 is possible)
> But maybe I'm wrong. Time will show.
> In the picture, the declared frequency of msi 2 dimm board is 5600 only for 2 dual-rank modules. Too hard for the board? controller? Memory? Do not know.
> View attachment 2530821
> 
> @cstkl1 If you were not mistaken on ddr4 DR DJR, do you have a maximum of 5200 stable for rocketlake? Do you have a screenshot?


So if you want 64gb ram then you should opt to try to find 2x32gb modules rather then 4x16? Maybe even better to fiind a motherboard with only 2 memory slots?


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## cstkl1

iraff1 said:


> So if you want 64gb ram then you should opt to try to find 2x32gb modules rather then 4x16? Maybe even better to fiind a motherboard with only 2 memory slots?


nobody knows


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## 2500k_2

Perhaps there is a millionaire among us and he is ready to help the community by buying a fresh datasheet ddr5 JESD79-5A 





Standards & Documents Search | JEDEC







www.jedec.org




I think this document will answer many questions


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## coolice

iraff1 said:


> So if you want 64gb ram then you should opt to try to find 2x32gb modules rather then 4x16? Maybe even better to fiind a motherboard with only 2 memory slots?


yes

Intel POR for DDR5 on 4DIMM board
4400 1DPC SR/DR
4000 2DPC SR
3600 2DPC DR

while on 2DIMM board
4800 1DPC SR/DR


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## cstkl1

coolice said:


> yes
> 
> Intel POR for DDR5 on 4DIMM board
> 4400 1DPC SR/DR
> 4000 2DPC SR
> 3600 2DPC DR
> 
> while on 2DIMM board
> 4800 1DPC SR/DR


the guy who knows spoken.


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## coolice

as for PMIC wise, anpec and ricktek are best for time being but YOMV


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## cstkl1

coolice said:


> as for PMIC wise, anpec and ricktek are best for time being but YOMV


how do we check which pmic on the dimm?


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## coolice

cstkl1 said:


> how do we check which pmic on the dimm?


BIOS should be able to read them, there are approx. 5 vendors atm


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## cstkl1

coolice said:


> BIOS should be able to read them, there are approx. 5 vendors atm


can list them bro..the other two?


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## coolice

cstkl1 said:


> can list them bro..the other two?


Renesas, GMT, MPS


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## cstkl1

coolice said:


> Renesas, GMT, MPS


is gskill mix bag pmic depending on chipset or??

if can disclose.


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## 2500k_2

coolice said:


> yes
> 
> Intel POR for DDR5 on 4DIMM board
> 4400 1DPC SR/DR
> 4000 2DPC SR
> 3600 2DPC DR
> 
> while on 2DIMM board
> 4800 1DPC SR/DR


msi 4 dimm board datasheet








qvl this motherboard 
2DPC 1R - 4800


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> msi 4 dimm board datasheet
> View attachment 2530830
> 
> qvl this motherboard
> 2DPC 1R - 4800
> View attachment 2530831


@coolice 
nice. also samsung are they any good?


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## coolice

2500k_2 said:


> msi 4 dimm board datasheet
> View attachment 2530830
> 
> qvl this motherboard
> 2DPC 1R - 4800
> View attachment 2530831


that gives you an idea how IMC treated on each config, how the MB vendors optimizing their boards are different story



cstkl1 said:


> @coolice
> nice. also samsung are they any good?


it is pretty clear on GSKILL PR isnt it


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## cstkl1

coolice said:


> that gives you an idea how IMC treated on each config, how the MB vendors optimizing their boards are different story
> 
> 
> it is pretty clear on GSKILL PR isnt it


lol.


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## cstkl1

@coolice

on 10 layer pcb rams. have u tested any that no issue 1.6 and above daily stable?
is it pmic issue?


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## 2500k_2

*@coolice *Memory controller ddr4 in alderlake remained without improvements? 2000 MHz max + ?


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## coolice

cstkl1 said:


> @coolice
> 
> on 10 layer pcb rams. have u tested any that no issue 1.6 and above daily stable?
> is it pmic issue?


good kit are rare now, even to us, wish not to degrade it as i need to keep it as reference while testing across different boards
1.5v max for me daily and it seem pretty hot even with fan on top



2500k_2 said:


> *@coolice *Memory controller ddr4 in alderlake remained without improvements? 2000 MHz max + ?


from my POV, intel seem putting less effort on DDR4 and reasonable justify by the DDR5 bandwidth
btw, bdie are not going well on this platform


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## 2500k_2

@*coolice*

Probably the controller doesn't like too tight timings. Probably the location is connected from BL 16 to ddr5. And it can affect tRRd_s _min, tFAW _min, ccd_s am I right?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> @*coolice*
> 
> Probably the controller doesn't like too tight timings. Probably the location is connected from BL 16 to ddr5. And it can affect tRRd_s _min, tFAW _min, ccd_s am I right?


no problem on 4,4,16

but chipset vary on third timing from what i have seen on twrwr_sg/dg if u are looking at tccd.
not all can run syn with trdrd_sg/dg


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## Falkentyne

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530798
> 
> -1mhz


And there goes the NDA....


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> no problem on 4,4,16
> 
> but chipset vary on third timing from what i have seen on twrwr_sg/dg if u are looking at tccd.
> not all can run syn with trdrd_sg/dg


Maybe I'm wrong, but please check rrd_s - 8 tFaw - 32 / For example, in the photoworks aida64. 
As far as I know rrd_s is the minimum time between two ACT commands and it depends on tBL = BL / 2 = 16/2 = 8 in ddr5.
On ddr4, you can also insert rrd_s - 0 and tFaw <16 - this removes all current restrictions, but then the BIOS can correct the parameters itself and set, for example, some kind of safe value without our knowledge
If the indicators rrd_s - 8 tFaw - 32 improve then the bios applied its values
if the indicators are the same, then the BIOS does not apply the values below.
but if the performance deteriorates then I was mistaken and rrd_s- 4 works well on ddr5


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but please check rrd_s - 8 tFaw - 32 / For example, in the photo works.
> As far as I know rrd_s is the minimum time between two ACT commands and it depends on BL = tBL / 2 = 16/2 = 8 in ddr5.
> On ddr4, you can also insert rrd_s - 0 and tFaw <16 - this removes all current restrictions, but then the BIOS can correct the parameters itself and set, for example, some kind of safe value without our knowledge
> If the indicators rrd_s - 8 tFaw - 32 improve then the bios applied its values
> if the indicators are the same, then the BIOS does not apply the values below.
> but if the performance deteriorates then I was mistaken and rrd_s- 4 works well on ddr5


later.. this need to test on p mode oc/cstate etc off... ring down disable.. 
aida still whack


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> later.. this need to test on p mode oc/cstate etc off... ring down disable..
> aida still whack


OK, I'm waiting for the test result, if you have time, of course. Is the ring better overclocking than Rocketlake?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> OK, I'm waiting for the test result, if you have time, of course. Is the ring better overclocking than Rocketlake?


its like cml with e core disable


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> OK, I'm waiting for the test result, if you have time, of course. Is the ring better overclocking than Rocketlake?


8,8,32 photoworks was lower than 4,4,16 just by 2x


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> 8,8,32 photoworks was lower than 4,4,16 just by 2x


then I was wrong.thanks


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> 1.6 and above daily stable?











from the sk hynix datasheet


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## 2500k_2

@cstkl1 can I ask you what values of tRDRD and tWRWR are stable for you? can I assume that> = 13 (or > = 8 ) / or am I wrong?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> @cstkl1 can I ask you what values of tRDRD and tWRWR are stable for you? can I assume that> = 13 / or am I wrong?


hehe. this is what i want to see on other ppl oc.

some of the intial look bit off but managed to find the difference thanks to experience with rkl and ddr4 hynix in particular.

a ocer showed me btw
ddr4 strix-A no issue 4000 but latency is not like rkl.

adl imc is different.


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> ddr4 strix-A no issue 4000 but latency is not like rkl.
> 
> adl imc is different.


Gear 1?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Gear 1?


yes


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> yes


Great ! Is the delay much different from the Gear 1 Rocket Lake? +5 ns possible? or more?
it is in any case lower than ddr5 in gear 2 isn't it?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Great ! Is the delay much different from the Gear 1 Rocket Lake? +5 ns possible? or more?
> it is in any case lower than ddr5 in gear 2 isn't it?


i didnt test this. had to ask a favor.


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## 12700KF

My DDR5 is finally at my home  I should get the CPU + MB tomorrow, can´t wait for 1st start with ADL!

    

Corsair Vengeance 2x16GB, 5200MHz, 38-38-38-84, ver. 3.43.01, 1.25V, Micron.


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## IronAge

CMT32GX5M2B5200C36FE DDR5 5200 36-38-38-74 - 1,25V - VER 3.43.01 - Micron.


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## 2500k_2

IronAge said:


> Micron.


Micron does not recommend increasing voltages more than 1.4v on their ddr5 chips. Information from the micron datasheet


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## coolice

samsung test run, there may be surprise from hynix
good luck and have fun in an hour 😁


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## cstkl1

coolice said:


> samsung test run, there may be surprise from hynix
> good luck and have fun in an hour 😁


didnt have luck for 6600 1T

@safedisk .... 


l


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## 2500k_2




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## cstkl1

MZ690 - Apex
Bios - 0096
Gskill 2x16gb @ 6400 C30-37-37-28 1T trfc 280 @1.5v
MC - 1.35v
SA - 0.85v

12900KF - SP89 - STOCK








​
12900KF - SP89 - P Core 52|50








​


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## 2500k_2

1T best / good job
Hynix?


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## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> 1T best / good job
> Hynix?


yeah but mine taps out at this.. 
1.6v.. if only the pmic wasnt behaving erratic i could have pushed higher.


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## cstkl1

still got room for this. but all in all dont think worth it.


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## cstkl1

potential


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## cstkl1

edit


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## Thanh Nguyen

IronAge said:


> CMT32GX5M2B5200C36FE DDR5 5200 36-38-38-74 - 1,25V - VER 3.43.01 - Micron.


What is your highest clock for that kit now with 1.5v?


----------



## Falkentyne

Micron OC is possible.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> MZ690 - Apex
> Bios - 0096
> Gskill 2x16gb @ 6400 C30-37-37-28 1T trfc 280 @1.5v
> MC - 1.35v
> SA - 0.85v
> 
> 12900KF - SP89 - STOCK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 12900KF - SP89 - P Core 52|50
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


which manufacturer of the power supply chip on these modules? in the BIOS it will probably be visible


----------



## Falkentyne

5200 XMP auto subs stock (CL 40-40-40-76), 5.2 ghz all cores










5400 mhz DDR5, CL36-37-37-48, tweaked subs, 5.2 ghz all cores


----------



## 2500k_2

Falkentyne said:


> 5200 XMP auto subs stock (CL 40-40-40-76), 5.2 ghz all cores
> 
> View attachment 2531051
> 
> 
> 5400 mhz DDR5, CL36-37-37-48, tweaked subs, 5.2 ghz all cores
> 
> View attachment 2531052


which manufacturer of the power supply chip on these modules? need to collect statistics of good and bad power chips


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> which manufacturer of the power supply chip on these modules? need to collect statistics of good and bad power chips


i dont think asus reads it atm.


----------



## roooo

Unfortunately I was only able to order Kingston FURY Beast DDR5-5200 C40 2x16 and even that order is delayed. Anyone any experience how far this kit can be pushed? Is it Micron?


----------



## 2500k_2

roooo said:


> Unfortunately I was only able to order Kingston FURY Beast DDR5-5200 C40 2x16 and even that order is delayed. Anyone any experience how far this kit can be pushed? Is it Micron?


micron the worst of the chips. 5400 -5600.
but if you show the result above from be sure to post here. This is very valuable now. (now even screenshots from the BIOS are valuable)


----------



## roooo

2500k_2 said:


> micron the worst of the chips. 5400 -5600.
> but if you show the result above from be sure to post here. This is very valuable now. (now even screenshots from the BIOS are valuable)


Thanks, I will - but I'm still waiting on MEM and APEX... :-(


----------



## martin28bln

Falkentyne said:


> Micron OC is possible.


Which voltage and can you show all timings?


----------



## morph.

Any help on where can I acquire gskill z5's ASAP?

@GSKILL SUPPORT


----------



## Falkentyne

martin28bln said:


> Which voltage and can you show all timings?


Don't have access to that right now.
I believe voltages were 1.30v vdd, 1.35v vddq, MC 1.30v, SA I forgot maybe 1.15v.


----------



## J7SC

I saw > this post w/ screenshot earlier (DDR5 6600 CL32) and I'm sure DDR5 progress will go quickly well beyond that. What I find amazing though is that memory reads w/ dual channel DDR5 are now about where my Threadripper w/ decent quad channel DDR4 is. It makes me wonder about upcoming 8-channel DDR5 TR Pro and similar upcoming HEDT by Intel....


----------



## coolice

dump your SPD from cpuz
if module vendor fill it correctly
0B10 = Anpec
0D85 = GMT
0B2A = MPS
80B3 = Renesas
8A8C = Richtek


----------



## anta777

SimpleTable for DDR5 (first version)
simpletable2forDDR5.xlsx

Note to the table:
tCL can be set to any even from the interval 22-66,
tWR is a multiple of 6 from the interval 48-96,
tRTP to choose from 12,14,15,17,18,20,21,23,24,
CCDL select from the interval 8-16,
CCDLWR is always 2 times larger than CCDL, interval 16-32,
CCDLWR2 is always 4 times larger than CCDL, interval 32-64
WRWRsg (in bios)=CCDLWR , but not CCDLWR2.
In Jedec (JESD79-5A) p.44 typo.

chess player
it should be a shame to lay out illiterate screenshots
tRASmin for DDR5=tRCD+tRTP, tRTPmin=12
tRASmin=tRCD+12 !!!!


----------



## Falkentyne

coolice said:


> dump your SPD from cpuz
> if module vendor fill it correctly
> 0B10 = Anpec
> 0D85 = GMT
> 0B2A = MPS
> 80B3 = Renesas
> 8A8C = Richtek
> View attachment 2531313


Mine is 80 B3.


----------



## mattxx88

just grabbed Corsair 5200 c36 someone have some test already done with them? are they almost decent overclocking (cpu allowing )?


----------



## Nikos4Life

mattxx88 said:


> just grabbed Corsair 5200 c36 someone have some test already done with them? are they almost decent overclocking (cpu allowing )?


me too, do you have any ETA?
It was the only kit I was able to find here in Europe.


----------



## mattxx88

Nikos4Life said:


> me too, do you have any ETA?
> It was the only kit I was able to find here in Europe.


idem for me, i bought them directly from corsair.it site, no eta yet
we have literally 0 ddr5 dispo in IT


----------



## iraff1

ddr5 so rare not even the ebay scalpers has gotten their hands on them, the chip shortage is real


----------



## dante`afk

mattxx88 said:


> just grabbed Corsair 5200 c36 someone have some test already done with them? are they almost decent overclocking (cpu allowing )?


micron chips, so any high OC will be unlikely.


----------



## mattxx88

dante`afk said:


> micron chips, so any high OC will be unlikely.


tough but honest 😥


----------



## CVLover

mattxx88 said:


> tough but honest 😥


I cant even do 5400 on a 5200 kit lol. And 1 down on cl = no boot, no matter the volt


----------



## mattxx88

you are making me want to cancel them 😢
so the only choice is hynix right now, till we see samsung, right?


----------



## Falkentyne

CVLover said:


> I cant even do 5400 on a 5200 kit lol. And 1 down on cl = no boot, no matter the volt


----------



## Benni231990

i have the Kingston furry 5200 kit CL40 an i can run it with 5600










holy **** xD @Falkentyne i used yout secondary timing ist its hugh differenz in aida benchmark

bevor i have

read 86900
write 78600
copy 71500
Latency 77.1 ns

now i have this 









@Falkentyne can you pls make a screenshot from you third timings in the bios pls ?

from you screenshoot i cant figue it out in the bios what timing is the timing in the bios


----------



## martin28bln

Which voltages did you change to which value? @Benni231990


----------



## Benni231990

i change VDD and VDDQ to 1.35

and now i make a gaming benchmark Forza Horizant 5 what the timings brings more fps (extrem setting + Raytracing Extreme)

No timings









Full timings









you can see it brings in average 3,7 FPS in minimal 3,1 FPS and max 4,5 FPS

so i hope @Falkentyne make screenshots from his third timings in the bios  so maybe we get another fps


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## Benni231990

Has any body a link how we can buy the 4800 sk hynix RAM? In germany are all Sold out


----------



## roooo

Benni231990 said:


> Has any body a link how we can buy the 4800 sk hynix RAM? In germany are all Sold out


Do you know what kits/manufacturers use these Hynix chips?


----------



## mattxx88

Benni231990 said:


> Has any body a link how we can buy the 4800 sk hynix RAM? In germany are all Sold out


same boat Italy


----------



## Benni231990

roooo said:


> Do you know what kits/manufacturers use these Hynix chips?


So i understand all 6000+ Kits have the good Samsung or sk hynix Chips only the 4800 sk hynix have the Chips all the Rest have micron


----------



## fortecosi

12700K, Z690 APEX, 5200MHz Micron:


----------



## Benni231990

@fortecosi can you pls make a screenshot from your third timing in the bios?


----------



## 2500k_2

fortecosi said:


> 12700K, Z690 APEX, 5200MHz Micron:


can I raise the frequency to 5400?


----------



## Benni231990

try it the wort case it it wont boot


----------



## 2500k_2

Benni231990 said:


> try it the wort case it it wont boot


mby more dram vddq ?


----------



## Benni231990

i have 1,35 VDD and VDDQ


----------



## 2500k_2

Benni231990 said:


> i have 1,35 VDD and VDDQ


try raising dram vddq - 1.4
cpu vddq (transmitter vddq) -1.4


----------



## fortecosi

Benni231990 said:


> @fortecosi can you pls make a screenshot from your third timing in the bios?


Yes sure, when I will be back at home.


----------



## Benni231990

thank you


----------



## martin28bln

My kit boots with crash when tighten from 5200 to 5400 + your timings and 1.35V both. Will test more voltage tomorrow....


----------



## Nizzen

Stock cpu
Loaded 5400mhz preset + "roundtrip latency" - Nothing else
Dominator 2x16 5200 Micron


----------



## fortecosi

Benni231990 said:


> @fortecosi can you pls make a screenshot from your third timing in the bios?


Here we go:


----------



## centvalny

Testing..


----------



## cstkl1

fortecosi said:


> 12700K, Z690 APEX, 5200MHz Micron:


try running equal tcl=twcl. lower the twr


----------



## anta777

tCWL=tCL-2 for DDR5


----------



## cstkl1

anta777 said:


> tCWL=tCL-2 for DDR5


no
its chipset based behaviour based on tcl.


----------



## skullbringer

daily setup for Micron Rev A on MSI Z690 Carbon Wifi, seems to be still a bit worse than Asus boards
1.34 VDD and VDDQ, stock CPU
erros above 55 C spd hub temp


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> daily setup for Micron Rev A on MSI Z690 Carbon Wifi, seems to be still a bit worse than Asus boards
> 1.34 VDD and VDDQ, stock CPU
> View attachment 2531781


think if u see what subs hynix chipset can run... u will rage.


----------



## anta777

cstkl1 said:


> no
> its chipset based behaviour based on tcl.


*tCWL=tCL-2 for DDR5*
study Jedec JESD79-5A


----------



## Nizzen

anta777 said:


> *tCWL=tCL-2 for DDR5*
> study Jedec JESD79-5A


The question if it's faster to follow the "rule" or not. If not, the rule is useless?
I haven't tested, so I don't know.


----------



## anta777

there are global rules Jedec that cannot be violated

ddr4 allowed different cwl, ddr5 did not allow


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> The question if it's faster to follow the "rule" or not. If not, the rule is useless?
> I haven't tested, so I don't know.


i would test against these so call rules

hint if we followed jdec. then rkl especially throw away everything it can do

jdec is a standard. not what a chipset can do.

no idea y u guys want to even bother with somebody who reading a ddr5 standard and think that summarizes chipset capability. some ppl can oc. some ppl read.


5000cl17-17-17-28 trfc 265
4000 lc13-13-13-14 trfc 218.. yes this is from reading ddr4 jdec.

LOL.
@sugi0lover hows your jdec reading coming? 
lol


----------



## anta777

another delirium,
rkl does not violate *global rules Jedec*

there are such concepts:
memory chip
memory controller

Chipset does not matter


I laugh at you and your absolute illiteracy
you twist everything you can down and call it overclocking

this is not overclocking, this is stupidity


read at least Jacob!


your tRAS=tRCD+1 - real stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## cstkl1

anta777 said:


> there are global rules Jedec that cannot be violated
> 
> ddr4 allowed different cwl, ddr5 did not allow


wrong. 
next


----------



## cstkl1

anta777 said:


> another delirium,
> rkl does not violate global rules Jedec
> 
> there are such concepts:
> memory chip
> memory controller
> 
> Chipset does not matter


u just contradicted with an excuse


----------



## cstkl1

anyway not gonna keep replying to this dude. 

@Nizzen test what the chipset can do
not rules.


----------



## anta777

with your level of knowledge, you should generally be silent in a rag dude

zero knowledge and a sea of aplomb

cstkl1 vs Jedec, LOL!!!!

why know any rules


----------



## anta777

cstk1 overclocking:
reduce all timings down while decreasing

you don't need to think about it


----------



## stn1

Oh hey there, I also want in on not adhering to JEDEC standarts and getting better latency from that

Look at me using Tfaw=28, passing 5h of absolut tm5 memtest and getting better latency 









FYI TFAW=32 is unstable


----------



## anta777

What are you happy about?
This means that your memory does not pull FAW=32.
FAW=28 not really applied.
BL=16 for DDR5
tBL=BL/2=8
RRDS=8
tFAWmin=4xtRRDS=32.
it cannot be changed

your mistakes with FAW=32 prove it


----------



## stn1

@me when you get your memory


----------



## anta777

Alzov,
why your tRAS is already equal tRCD+12, you used to put it less than tRCD?

Why so?
or is Jedec already running?


----------



## anta777

Why your RRDS and RRDL =4?
RRDS=8
RRDL=>=8


----------



## Benni231990

now with second and third timings i have this


----------



## Falkentyne

anta777 said:


> Alzov,
> why your tRAS is already equal tRCD+12, you used to put it less than tRCD?
> 
> Why so?
> or is Jedec already running?


Stable.


----------



## anta777

and what does it change
you don't see the true timings

put tRAS<tRCD , it will be even more interesting

the number of errors simply cannot be calculated, I have not seen more delirium for a long time
but for a chess player it will do


----------



## Benni231990

i updated my third timings










and i moddet my ddr5 ram with a rgb kit: EZDIY-FAB 12V RGB Speicher RAM Kühler DDR Kühlkörper für DIY PC Spiel Overclocking MOD DDR3 DDR4 - Schwarz-2 Pack: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör

with original heatsink i have in stress test 49,7°C now with the rgb kit 45,8°C


----------



## Nizzen

Benni231990 said:


> i updated my third timings
> 
> View attachment 2531861
> 
> 
> and i moddet my ddr5 ram with a rgb kit: EZDIY-FAB 12V RGB Speicher RAM Kühler DDR Kühlkörper für DIY PC Spiel Overclocking MOD DDR3 DDR4 - Schwarz-2 Pack: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
> 
> with original heatsink i have in stress test 49,7°C now with the rgb kit 45,8°C


Please post timings with MemTweakIt
MemTweakIt 20210910.zip

And pleace post voltages for Dimm in bios 

Too bad Aida64 doesn't work for me in Win 11. Latency shows 0ns


----------



## Benni231990

voltage are 1,35 VDD/VDDQ


----------



## centvalny

^^Play with trfc to 350ish


----------



## Benni231990

is 350 a big differenz ? and when i apply 350 in MemTweakIt is this in real time or i must go to bios and chage the timings there?

my current timings are a real boost in games as you can see

stock ram









full primary,second and third timings and 5600


----------



## Falkentyne

centvalny said:


> ^^Play with trfc to 350ish


350 =no train.
360=instant BSOD.
350 trains and is stable at 5200.


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k SP93
Maximus Z690 Apex : 0702
2x16gb [email protected] c30-37-37-28 1T 280 @1.5/1.5

MC/SA=1.35/0.95









​


----------



## Benni231990

how do you guys make all the aida benchmark with out the cache benchmark? i must make every time the cache benchmark to


----------



## D-EJ915

Benni231990 said:


> how do you guys make all the aida benchmark with out the cache benchmark? i must make every time the cache benchmark to


if you double click on the memory line it runs only memory


----------



## Nizzen

Benni231990 said:


> how do you guys make all the aida benchmark with out the cache benchmark? i must make every time the cache benchmark to


Double left click on what you want  Want only Latency, double click in it. Want only memory-> doubleclick on the memory text.

This Dominator 5200 2x16 is sad compared to Hynix and Samsung 

Is there any next step on this kit?
Lower TRFC is a no go
Lower 1. timings looks hard. 
1.3v/1.35qv is used in bios. More isn't better it looks like.


----------



## centvalny

Hope ddr5 6k+ sticks will starting to show up at neweeg next week probly start with team delta and adata. 
Checked with felton/nxelectronics HK no stock even for green pcb hynix/samsung


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Need help~ I got an issue here. "0" result on latency. How could I fix it?
12700k
ASUS Z690-F BIOS 0702
AI Overclocked
Corsair CMK32GX5M2B5200C38 VENGEANCE 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 5200MHz C38


----------



## Nizzen

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Need help~ I got an issue here. "0" result on latency. How could I fix it?
> 12700k
> ASUS Z690-F BIOS 0702
> AI Overclocked
> Corsair CMK32GX5M2B5200C38 VENGEANCE 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 5200MHz C38


We need to wait for new Aida64 beta for fix.
Aida64 mem bench with Alder Lake and DDR5 is working in Win 10, but not Windows 11. AL with DDR4 is working on both 10 and 11.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> We need to wait for new Aida64 beta for fix.
> Aida64 mem bench with Alder Lake and DDR5 is working in Win 10, but not Windows 11. AL with DDR4 is working on both 10 and 11.


#windows 11









get this version.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> #windows 11
> 
> 
> get this version.


Post it here? <3


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

cstkl1 said:


> #windows 11
> View attachment 2531931
> 
> 
> get this version.


I tried 6.50.5800 already. Case worst, all "0" on read, write, copy and latency #_#


----------



## cstkl1

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> I tried 6.50.5800 already. Case worst, all "0" on read, write, copy and latency #_#


@Nizzen 
might be diff version of windows..
i havent updated anything


----------



## ThinbinJim

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> I tried 6.50.5800 already. Case worst, all "0" on read, write, copy and latency #_#


I also get 0s if windows 11 VBS/core isolation in device security is turned on. Turn it off and reboot windows and latency should be read correctly.


----------



## Nizzen

ThinbinJim said:


> I also get 0s if windows 11 VBS/core isolation in device security is turned on. Turn it off and reboot windows and latency should be read correctly.


I turned it on and then off. Now it works !
Tnx for the info!


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

ThinbinJim said:


> I also get 0s if windows 11 VBS/core isolation in device security is turned on. Turn it off and reboot windows and latency should be read correctly.


Great! Thank you! It works!


----------



## centvalny

5600 C36 bin


----------



## Talon2016

centvalny said:


> 5600 bin
> View attachment 2532014


What happened to the 6000Mhz bins? Did they reduce them?


----------



## centvalny

Talon2016 said:


> What happened to the 6000Mhz bins? Did they reduce them?


Most of 5600 above on neweeg. 6000s samsung or hynix probly soon


----------



## Talon2016

centvalny said:


> Most of 5600 above on neweeg. 6000s samsung or hynix probly soon


I saw those, but wondering if these 5600 are also Samsung? Answered my own question just by looking at the SPEC sheet you posted. So the 5600 should OC nicely since only 1.2v out of box XMP. Hoping they can do well above 6000.


----------



## Benni231990

Anybody here and would sell his sk hynix RAM maybe  or have a link who we can buy it?


----------



## cazpy

someone said win11 is not working correctly with aida, try going back to win10


----------



## cazpy

Benni231990 said:


> Anybody here and would sell his sk hynix RAM maybe  or have a link who we can buy it?


there is no link, you just can't buy it atm


----------



## SuperMumrik

My gawd! Got my fury 5200 kit, but it corrupted my win install within the first boot with xmp. 
So I am testing with memtest86 in bios atm and this thing seems to only run error free at jedec speed and timings! 
Can a memory kit really be this bad? 🤣
I didn't have high hopes for those crucial sticks, but this is beyond ridiculous


----------



## stn1

SuperMumrik said:


> My gawd! Got my fury 5200 kit, but it corrupted my win install within the first boot with xmp.
> So I am testing with memtest86 in bios atm and this thing seems to only run error free at jedec speed and timings!
> Can a memory kit really be this bad? 🤣
> I didn't have high hopes for those crucial sticks, but this is beyond ridiculous


You're in for a treat, you need to manually copy all the XMP timings from a normal memory kit to make it work


----------



## Benni231990

the problem with the fury kit is when you load XMP the voltage from the SA will no set to a higher voltage it stays at 0,85V and thats to low

like @stn1 say you must set the speed an timings manuell an der SA vcore to 1.15-1.23 look what you need to boot

i can run the kit with 5600 and very good timings look on the other page i post a screen from my tmings and settings


----------



## Nizzen

Benni231990 said:


> the problem with the fury kit is when you load XMP the voltage from the SA will no set to a higher voltage it stays at 0,85V and thats to low
> 
> like @stn1 say you must set the speed an timings manuell an der SA vcore to 1.15-1.23 look what you need to boot


Apex z690: Load 5400mhz memory preset for Micron. BOOM! 98% of the potensial out of the memory. Easy


----------



## Benni231990

but i dont have a apex only the strix F xDD


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> Apex z690: Load 5400mhz memory preset for Micron. BOOM! 98% of the potensial out of the memory. Easy


Nothing of the above works. Upped the mc and sa, tried the micron profiles.. Nothing works as of now


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Apex z690: Load 5400mhz memory preset for Micron. BOOM! 98% of the potensial out of the memory. Easy


makes dream comes true


----------



## coolice

Benni231990 said:


> the problem with the fury kit is when you load XMP the voltage from the SA will no set to a higher voltage it stays at 0,85V and thats to low
> 
> like @stn1 say you must set the speed an timings manuell an der SA vcore to 1.15-1.23 look what you need to boot
> 
> i can run the kit with 5600 and very good timings look on the other page i post a screen from my tmings and settings


higher vccsa gain alot on gear 1, anything else, not much


----------



## Benni231990

i can only run my ram in gear 2 not gear 1


----------



## SuperMumrik

This is the wierdest thing. Re-flashed bios and just loaded the micron 5400 profile and it seems to be "stable" 🤔 oh well, I'll take it!


----------



## Benni231990

Ddr5 is the wierdest Thing ive ever See

I shut my PC down take out the memory to change the heatsink to the rgb and put back the memory and my PC wont Start with my stabile settings So i must Boot with default go back to bios load my Profil again


----------



## SuperMumrik

Benni231990 said:


> Ddr5 is the wierdest Thing ive ever See


I can stand behind this 😅


----------



## laphroaig

Since thread seems to have a lot of people with proper knowledge about DDR5, could someone help me out with a fairly simple question: Is there similar benefit to have 2 sticks/dimms with DDR5 as with DDR4?

As I've understood, even a single DDR5 dimm is dual channel on its own, even if each channel's bus size is 32bit vs DDR4's 64bit. Many benchmarks and people around different forums keep talking about needing two DDR5 dimms to get dual channel vs. the JEDEC specs and other more trustworthy sources.

This is confusing the f out of me.

So, what's the difference of me getting a single stick of 16GB vs 2x8GB kit DDR5? What kind of real-world differences would this have?


----------



## TheSteez

laphroaig said:


> Since thread seems to have a lot of people with proper knowledge about DDR5, could someone help me out with a fairly simple question: Is there similar benefit to have 2 sticks/dimms with DDR5 as with DDR4?
> 
> As I've understood, even a single DDR5 dimm is dual channel on its own, even if each channel's bus size is 32bit vs DDR4's 64bit. Many benchmarks and people around different forums keep talking about needing two DDR5 dimms to get dual channel vs. the JEDEC specs and other more trustworthy sources.
> 
> This is confusing the f out of me.
> 
> So, what's the difference of me getting a single stick of 16GB vs 2x8GB kit DDR5? What kind of real-world differences would this have?



Using only a single stick of ram is single channel. Using two sticks of ram is dual channel. You can essentially double the bandwidth going from 1 stick to 2, which is basically doubling the performance. Here is a recent article that explains this in detail. https://www.hardwaretimes.com/single-channel-vs-dual-channel-ram-which-one-is-better-for-gaming/

I would assume that having 2 sticks with ddr5 provides the same benefits as using 2 sticks with ddr4.


----------



## Esenel

Could some of you please try to reproduce this.

When Karhu is running and I either open HWInfo or take a screenshot with Greenshot for example, then three seconds later I get an error in Karhu.
It doesn't matter at which point I try this.
Always happens.
Even when Bios is on full Auto Setting.

Thanks!


----------



## JSHamlet234

laphroaig said:


> Since thread seems to have a lot of people with proper knowledge about DDR5, could someone help me out with a fairly simple question: Is there similar benefit to have 2 sticks/dimms with DDR5 as with DDR4?
> 
> As I've understood, even a single DDR5 dimm is dual channel on its own, even if each channel's bus size is 32bit vs DDR4's 64bit. Many benchmarks and people around different forums keep talking about needing two DDR5 dimms to get dual channel vs. the JEDEC specs and other more trustworthy sources.
> 
> This is confusing the f out of me.
> 
> So, what's the difference of me getting a single stick of 16GB vs 2x8GB kit DDR5? What kind of real-world differences would this have?


One stick is dual-channel, 2 sticks is quad-channel.


----------



## skullbringer

JSHamlet234 said:


> One stick is dual-channel, 2 sticks is quad-channel.


that's like saying 1440p is "2K"


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Benni231990 said:


> Ddr5 is the wierdest Thing ive ever See
> 
> I shut my PC down take out the memory to change the heatsink to the rgb and put back the memory and my PC wont Start with my stabile settings So i must Boot with default go back to bios load my Profil again


Because the PMIC is located on DDR5 PCB. Once the DDR5 is taken out from the motherboard, the tricking circuit on motherboard for holding the memory setting for fast boot will be reset. The tricking circuit needs to communicate with the PMIC to hold the connection.


----------



## D-EJ915

Received my 4800 C34 dominators today, now waiting on my apex which hasn't moved since earlier this week.


----------



## Benni231990

here you can buy kingston 4800 cl40 : https://www.amazon.de/dp/B09KMD4BR4...eizhals10-21&ascsubtag=SXKivazL0NjSUWzjFbgkYg


----------



## Bilco

Benni231990 said:


> here you can buy kingston 4800 cl40 : https://www.amazon.de/dp/B09KMD4BR4...eizhals10-21&ascsubtag=SXKivazL0NjSUWzjFbgkYg


Damn, they won't ship US.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Anyone would help post the Micron 5400 and 5600 Preset? Could not find it in ROG Z690-F BIOS #_#


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Very Bad...


----------



## Falkentyne

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Very Bad...
> View attachment 2532345


stock timings are atrocious

Try this.
May need VDD: 1.30-1.35v, VDDQ 1.35-1.40v.


----------



## IronAge

Benni231990 said:


> Anybody here and would sell his sk hynix RAM maybe  or have a link who we can buy it?


I am getting Teamgroup 4800CL40 and hope for Hynix IC.



websmile @ hardwareluxx.de said:


> 3300 MHz | 32-38-38-28 2T | 1.4V | 2x16GB Kingston DDR5-5600 | Hynix | Z690 | websmile | Screen


Probably Kingston Values have Hynix too.


----------



## anta777

*chess player*
RRDdg=8 !!!!!!!!
RRDsg>=8 !!!!!!!!


----------



## skullbringer

has anyone checked yet which speed bin their Micron Rev A on Corsair's are? 

my kingston kit has the lowest bin micron does at 4800 40-39 1.1V and they also scale like ****, 5600 40-42 1.35V is the highest they will go, also don't scale with asynchronous vddq

would be interesting if there is bad Rev A and worse Rev A


----------



## laphroaig

skullbringer said:


> has anyone checked yet which speed bin their Micron Rev A on Corsair's are?
> 
> my kingston kit has the lowest bin micron does at 4800 40-39 1.1V and they also scale like ****, 5600 40-42 1.35V is the highest they will go, also don't scale with asynchronous vddq
> 
> would be interesting if there is bad Rev A and worse Rev A


Do you have the Kingston Furys or ValueRAMs?


----------



## IronAge

https://www.hkepc.com/20712/賣大包__裸條用_Hynix_Chip__PNY_Performance_DDR5-4800_CL40_16GB
Article about PNY 4800 with SK Hynix IC incl. VDimm:clock scaling, some good pics of Hynix M-Die IC and Renesas PMIC too.


----------



## Benni231990

we need to buy the pny xD we need links


----------



## IronAge

Benni231990 said:


> we need to buy the pny xD we need links


Patriot Signature Edition 4800 has Hynix IC too.









Patriot lanza memorias RAM DDR5 Signature - HardwaReviews


PATRIOT, anuncia el lanzamiento de sus primeras DDR5 de alta performance. Las mismas estarán disponibles en el mercado en noviembre del 2021. La performance de las DDR5 Signature son aproximadamente un 75% más rápidas que...



hardwareviews.com





available no where, well maybe soon in italy.  



https://tblab.it/prodotto/patriot-ram-dimm-16gb-ddr5-4800mhz/


----------



## skullbringer

laphroaig said:


> Do you have the Kingston Furys or ValueRAMs?


fury beast


----------



## Lord Alzov

anta777 said:


> Alzov,
> why your tRAS is already equal tRCD+12, you used to put it less than tRCD?
> 
> Why so?
> or is Jedec already running?


Its not me lol. 
Why are you confusing me already on two forums?I know how to set timings, but we don't have memory on sale yet.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Falkentyne said:


> stock timings are atrocious
> 
> Try this.
> May need VDD: 1.30-1.35v, VDDQ 1.35-1.40v.
> 
> View attachment 2532346


Tried.
It does not work on my sticks...
Tried different voltage still not stable. 

Any suggestion for bad luck on silicon lottery?


----------



## Nizzen

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Tried.
> It does not work on my sticks...
> Tried different voltage still not stable.
> 
> Any suggestion for bad luck on silicon lottery?


Buying wrong Motherboard isn't bad luck 😜


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

skullbringer said:


> has anyone checked yet which speed bin their Micron Rev A on Corsair's are?
> 
> my kingston kit has the lowest bin micron does at 4800 40-39 1.1V and they also scale like ****, 5600 40-42 1.35V is the highest they will go, also don't scale with asynchronous vddq
> 
> would be interesting if there is bad Rev A and worse Rev A


Bad Micron A 
Corsair Vengeance 5200 C38 
VDD 1.3V VDDQ 1.3V


----------



## Benni231990

my kingston furry kit with micron chips makes 5600 with 36-39-39-52 and full second and third timings and VDD/VDDQ 1.35volt


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Benni231990 said:


> my kingston furry kit with micron chips makes 5600 with 36-39-39-52 and full second and third timings and VDD/VDDQ 1.35volt


tried to loose 5600-40-40-40-76 but not stable


----------



## Falkentyne

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Bad Micron A
> Corsair Vengeance 5200 C38
> VDD 1.3V VDDQ 1.3V
> View attachment 2532410


Start by tightening up the subs without increasing frequency.
Don't change the primaries.

Do this at 5200 mhz first (or whatever your stock XMP is!)

Already you can get at least 10ns improvement.

Trefi = 65535 (memory refresh interval in BIOS).
TRRD_SG=6 (ras# to ras delay L i bios)
TRRD_DG=4 (Ras to ras delay S in bios)
Trfc 360 (ref cycle time)
twr=16 (write recovery time, i think)
trtp 8 (read to pre time)
tfaw 16 (four act win time)
tCKE: 4

Memory training algorithms
Round Trip Latency Training: "Enabled".

(BTW don't listen to anta777, just listen to me).

Just make those changes and you "should" be fully stable.

If you're stable at 5200 and like the read/write/copy/latency, then you can start working on 5400.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Falkentyne said:


> Start by tightening up the subs without increasing frequency.
> Don't change the primaries.
> 
> Do this at 5200 mhz first (or whatever your stock XMP is!)
> 
> Already you can get at least 10ns improvement.
> 
> Trefi = 65535 (memory refresh interval in BIOS).
> TRRD_SG=6 (ras# to ras delay L i bios)
> TRRD_DG=4 (Ras to ras delay S in bios)
> Trfc 360 (ref cycle time)
> twr=16 (write recovery time, i think)
> trtp 8 (read to pre time)
> tfaw 16 (four act win time)
> tCKE: 4
> 
> Memory training algorithms
> Round Trip Latency Training: "Enabled".
> 
> (BTW don't listen to anta777, just listen to me).
> 
> Just make those changes and you "should" be fully stable.
> 
> If you're stable at 5200 and like the read/write/copy/latency, then you can start working on 5400.


Thank you so much! Got an improvement!
VDD & VDDQ 1.35V
tWR I did set 16 in BIOS but somehow it became 19


----------



## dante`afk

which chips are on kingston fury beast? micron as well?


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

dante`afk said:


> which chips are on kingston fury beast? micron as well?


Fury beast 4800 and 5200 now is Micron


----------



## Falkentyne

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Thank you so much! Got an improvement!
> VDD & VDDQ 1.35V
> tWR I did set 16 in BIOS but somehow it became 19
> View attachment 2532445


To drop TWR you need to change TWRPRE and TWRPDEN. I don't know how it works but TWR Is controlled by those two.
Try lowering PRE to 55 and DEN to 57. (theres some formula about it but i dont know what it is).


----------



## anta777

*emrick*
tWRmin=48
tRTPmin=12
tRRDsg>=8
tRRDdg=8
FAWmin=32
tCWL=tCL-2
WRPRE=CWL+WR+8
WRPDEN=CWL+WR+8+(1)

(BTW don't listen to chess player, just listen to me).
test at least HCI memtest or Karhu or testmem5 with custom config


----------



## morph.

Managed to order GEIL 2x16gb 5200 c34 (GOSW532GB5200C34ADC), for the interim… any one have any idea how well the over clockability is and what IC it’s running? Seems to have a fairly decent latency for now…


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> Managed to order GEIL 2x16gb 5200 c34 (GOSW532GB5200C34ADC), for the interim… any one have any idea how well the over clockability is and what IC it’s running? Seems to have a fairly decent latency for now…


Polaris?


----------



## IronAge

Benni231990 said:


> my kingston furry kit with micron chips makes 5600 with 36-39-39-52 and full second and third timings and VDD/VDDQ 1.35volt


May we see the 2nd/3rd subtimings and some kind of stability test/aida Benchmark screen ? it is not doubt just curiosity.


----------



## Benni231990

ill posted it on page 9 my complet timing settings and aida screen


----------



## skullbringer

is Teamgroup elite ddr5 4800 c40 micron or hynix?


----------



## laphroaig

skullbringer said:


> is Teamgroup elite ddr5 4800 c40 micron or hynix?


Not sure if this matters at all, but I looked at the physical naked vresion DIMMs for Crucial (Micron) and PNY (SK Hynix):


http://imgur.com/w4UHZqF


There are small differences on the component layouts between the confirmed Micron and SK Hynix sticks - and if this is telling to begin with, they could be SK Hynix


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

laphroaig said:


> Not sure if this matters at all, but I looked at the physical naked vresion DIMMs for Crucial (Micron) and PNY (SK Hynix):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/w4UHZqF
> 
> 
> There are small differences on the component layouts between the confirmed Micron and SK Hynix sticks - and if this is telling to begin with, they could be SK Hynix


It matters to different PMIC vendors but not has to be related to specific DRAM chips.


According to motherboard manufacturer QVL list and my some resources, Kingston and Team uses Micron so far for 4800/5200.


----------



## Benni231990

the only brands what use sk hynix is Pny and sk him selfs an above from 5600+ they have sk hynix or samsung


----------



## IronAge

skullbringer said:


> is Teamgroup elite ddr5 4800 c40 micron or hynix?


Getting two sticks tomorrow, i will let you know. 

Early TG elite shippings weeks before ADL relase supposed to have Hynix, but i think these have Micron too.



Benni231990 said:


> the only brands what use sk hynix is Pny and sk him selfs an above from 5600+ they have sk hynix or samsung


Patriot uses SK Hynix M-Die too on some lower binned modules.


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> Polaris?


yeah


----------



## centvalny

Naked team 4800 most likely micron chips


----------



## destylock

Nizzen said:


> Apex z690: Load 5400mhz memory preset for Micron. BOOM! 98% of the potensial out of the memory. Easy


Whats the profile ? I’m on hero board


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Falkentyne said:


> To drop TWR you need to change TWRPRE and TWRPDEN. I don't know how it works but TWR Is controlled by those two.
> Try lowering PRE to 55 and DEN to 57. (theres some formula about it but i dont know what it is).


Got another improvement!


----------



## Falkentyne

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Got another improvement!
> View attachment 2532551
> 
> View attachment 2532552


Try running the latency test more than once. And make sure you have no other windows programs running at the same time.
I think at your settings you should be getting about 65ns.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Falkentyne said:


> Try running the latency test more than once. And make sure you have no other windows programs running at the same time.
> I think at your settings you should be getting about 65ns.


Clean background
Maybe different build of Win11
No bother, compared to the stock XMP setting in the same environment, it has gotten a great improvement for Micron A.


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
MZ690 Apex - 0702
G.Skill 2x16gb 6400 c28-37-37-28 280 1T @1.55v
SA|txvddq|MC - 0.9v|1.45v|1.45v


----------



## hawkerbenny

skullbringer said:


> is Teamgroup elite ddr5 4800 c40 micron or hynix?


mine is micron


----------



## ChaosAD

I have my Apex+12900k on the way, but the only ddr5 i can find atm is this ultra crappy Kingston . What do you think? shall i get one stick to boot my pc or wait for something better? Ofc it will be replaced when fast kit are available.


----------



## dante`afk

You get anything so you can run your system now, and in half a year you look to buy something better given availability is good.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

ASUS Armoury Crate Uninstalled!!!


----------



## Falkentyne

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> ASUS Armoury Crate Uninstalled!!!
> View attachment 2533327


Now that's more like it. Good work.


----------



## bscool

@emrick.lee.ghost Did you have it doing some special lighting effects? I have ran AC before and it only added around 1ns or so. Or maybe it is buggy on Win11 or who know but that is crazy to add 5ns+.


----------



## Spiriva

Falkentyne said:


> .


I tried the settings you typed, and it worked fantastic for my 5200mhz domminator.










*Bumped up the volt from 1.250 to 1.350 too.


----------



## fortecosi

I was unable to do do more than 5200 with my Micron, but at the end I am using the Apex memory preset for 2x 16GB SR 5400MHz in BIOS, but with just 5200MHz and default XMP voltage. Works nicely. 
Micron
5200 CL34


----------



## dante`afk

Benni231990 said:


> ill posted it on page 9 my complet timing settings and aida screen


there's only an aida screen, can you post memtweakit screen?


----------



## Benni231990

no no scrool a bit down there is a scrennshot from my full timings


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
MZ690 Apex - Bios 0802
Gskill 2x16gb 6400 28-37-37-28-1T 280 @1.55
SA/MC/txvdd1 - 0.9|1.45|1.45


----------



## mattxx88

cstkl1 said:


> i9-12900k - SP93
> MZ690 Apex - Bios 0802
> Gskill 2x16gb 6400 28-37-37-28-1T 280 @1.55
> SA/MC/txvdd1 - 0.9|1.45|1.45


ufo


----------



## Kenji

Anyone know what chips the DDR5 Ripjaws S5 C40 are running?


----------



## Unkzilla

Anyone have any ideas why sometimes my machine won't boot with XMP enabled - Corsair Vengeance 5200 kit - I need to manually reset cmos to get machine up and running.. however it passes many hours of memory testing. I am assuming maybe one of the auto voltages isn't sufficient sometimes at boot? This is with a MSI Z690-A DDR5 WIFI. I have upped dram voltage to 1.3 and vddq to 1.3, also set system agent to 1.15.. thinking perhaps I can also enable the setting to make it train every time at boot. Anyone experience anything similar?


----------



## cstkl1

Unkzilla said:


> Anyone have any ideas why sometimes my machine won't boot with XMP enabled - Corsair Vengeance 5200 kit - I need to manually reset cmos to get machine up and running.. however it passes many hours of memory testing. I am assuming maybe one of the auto voltages isn't sufficient sometimes at boot? This is with a MSI Z690-A DDR5 WIFI. I have upped dram voltage to 1.3 and vddq to 1.3, also set system agent to 1.15.. thinking perhaps I can also enable the setting to make it train every time at boot. Anyone experience anything similar?


@toppc


Unkzilla said:


> Anyone have any ideas why sometimes my machine won't boot with XMP enabled - Corsair Vengeance 5200 kit - I need to manually reset cmos to get machine up and running.. however it passes many hours of memory testing. I am assuming maybe one of the auto voltages isn't sufficient sometimes at boot? This is with a MSI Z690-A DDR5 WIFI. I have upped dram voltage to 1.3 and vddq to 1.3, also set system agent to 1.15.. thinking perhaps I can also enable the setting to make it train every time at boot. Anyone experience anything similar?


its the dragon experience. lol. 

best you email their fae.


----------



## Bilco

What version of memtweakit are you guys using? I was able to find V2.02.38 on Asus' site but it doesn't load.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> What version of memtweakit are you guys using? I was able to find V2.02.38 on Asus' site but it doesn't load.


check @RobertoSampaio thread. he has the octools pack from asus linked


----------



## morph.

Kenji said:


> Anyone know what chips the DDR5 Ripjaws S5 C40 are running?


according to this micron:





ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA | ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global


ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA



rog.asus.com


----------



## Kenji

morph. said:


> according to this micron:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA | ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com


Damn that sucks  Was hoping cause it was G Skill it would be good. Awesome link as well thank you.


----------



## morph.

Kenji said:


> Damn that sucks  Was hoping cause it was G Skill it would be good. Awesome link as well thank you.


Early days for ddr5 at the moment, it will be hard to get sk hynix/samsung without special connections or immense luck this side of the year probably Q1 of 2022.


----------



## IronAge

i envy @CENS - well at least a little.  










Mobo nb can buy with DDR5 nb can buy.


----------



## Kenji

morph. said:


> Early days for ddr5 at the moment, it will be hard to get sk hynix/samsung without special connections or immense luck this side of the year probably Q1 of 2022.


Yeah Im going to wait it out. Was going full new build with the BF discounts via ebay in Aus but this and now none of the coolers coming with the appropriate bracket means I'll wait til Boxing Day or next year.


----------



## morph.

Kenji said:


> Yeah Im going to wait it out. Was going full new build with the BF discounts via ebay in Aus but this and now none of the coolers coming with the appropriate bracket means I'll wait til Boxing Day or next year.


Coolers u say? Intel LGA 1700 Compatible CPU Coolers | PC Case Gear

else go custom loop


----------



## Kenji

morph. said:


> Coolers u say? Intel LGA 1700 Compatible CPU Coolers | PC Case Gear
> 
> else go custom loop


Ok damn I couldn't find this setting in PCCG. I really want the artic liquid freezer. Wonder if I can get away with a basic air cooler until I can. Actually I wonder if any of these brackets would work with the arctic LF 2 Also trying to fit this stuff in a meshlicious so some choices wont work  especially since Asus struggle at designing mITX boards lol.


----------



## Bilco

morph. said:


> Early days for ddr5 at the moment, it will be hard to get sk hynix/samsung without special connections.


Hit the nail on the head with that statement.


----------



## Jacinto1023

Unkzilla said:


> Anyone have any ideas why sometimes my machine won't boot with XMP enabled - Corsair Vengeance 5200 kit - I need to manually reset cmos to get machine up and running.. however it passes many hours of memory testing. I am assuming maybe one of the auto voltages isn't sufficient sometimes at boot? This is with a MSI Z690-A DDR5 WIFI. I have upped dram voltage to 1.3 and vddq to 1.3, also set system agent to 1.15.. thinking perhaps I can also enable the setting to make it train every time at boot. Anyone experience anything similar?



Where you able to figure it out? I have the same kit and selecting XMP won't work. I've read that I need to input the xmp settings manually.


----------



## Jacinto1023

I want to input my XMP settings manually since when I select XMP it doesn't work. I've read that people only got it to work by manually inputting the settings.

Can I just input the primary timings, voltage and speed? Or do I have to do sub timings and etc?

Because the corsair website just gives me xmp information for voltage primary timings and speed only. Can I leave all the other settings as is/auto?


----------



## Shonk

I ordered 64GB of Crucial 2 x 32GB 4800 Dual Rank on the 27th October
and they finally dispatched today

Does anyone have any
if so what speed/timings are they getting?


----------



## fortecosi

Jacinto1023 said:


> I want to input my XMP settings manually since when I select XMP it doesn't work. I've read that people only got it to work by manually inputting the settings.
> 
> Can I just input the primary timings, voltage and speed? Or do I have to do sub timings and etc?
> 
> Because the corsair website just gives me xmp information for voltage primary timings and speed only. Can I leave all the other settings as is/auto?


Yes, you can just input the primary timings, voltage and speed.


----------



## Unkzilla

Jacinto1023 said:


> Where you able to figure it out? I have the same kit and selecting XMP won't work. I've read that I need to input the xmp settings manually.


Yes all fixed , I bumped dram, vdd and vddq to 1.3v and that seemed to fix all issues with xmp. Not sure why the default 1.25v was insufficient, could be my motherboard or the kit of memory in particular.. 

I'm now fully stable at 5400mhz c36-40-40-52 with 1.35v. latency down to 62ns from 75ns with XMP. Pretty happy with the memory kit with these settings


----------



## Jacinto1023

Unkzilla said:


> Yes all fixed , I bumped dram, vdd and vddq to 1.3v and that seemed to fix all issues with xmp. Not sure why the default 1.25v was insufficient, could be my motherboard or the kit of memory in particular..
> 
> I'm now fully stable at 5400mhz c36-40-40-52 with 1.35v. latency down to 62ns from 75ns with XMP. Pretty happy with the memory kit with these settings


Thanks!! 

I tried XMP profile again with 1.3v and it booted and has been working great, no crashes or errors. Before i had just done Dram volts but doing vdd and vddq was the trick,


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## HiLuckyB

I can't get my MSI MPG Z690 Carbon to boot anything other then the default 4800MHz. I have a set of XPG Lancer 5200MHz CL38 1.25v DDR5.
This is my first time with a MSI motherboard, And I feel like I'm missing something to get the memory to work 🙃


----------



## clackersx

HiLuckyB said:


> I can't get my MSI MPG Z690 Carbon to boot anything other then the default 4800MHz. I have a set of XPG Lancer 5200MHz CL38 1.25v DDR5.
> This is my first time with a MSI motherboard, And I feel like I'm missing something to get the memory to work 🙃


Same here. 12900KF, MSI Z690 Force and ADATA XPG Lancer 5200MHz AX5U5200C3816G-DCLABK.
It’s been a super unlucky cursed build for me, heaps went wrong (killed a GPU, water pump died, parts arrived damaged)

I have tried with up to 1.35V “DRAM VOLTAGE” and “DRAM VDDQ”, no difference. Tried upping the “CPU SA” to 1.25v, no difference.
Tried the A13 beta bios, no difference.
Not feeling too great so I gave up for now, auto 4800 is rock solid.
_Pics attached so others can see the bios settings available for voltage options, I’m not even sure what the MC voltage would be tbh.
Got the beta here Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion_


----------



## HiLuckyB

It must be a MSI Bios problem with this memory kit, But I don't understand why. Pretty sure it's just Micron, Like all the other 5200-5400MHz ram kit's out there 🤔 I'm also using a 12900KF.


----------



## skullbringer

had the same issue on the carbon where channel A would not train higher than 4800, not even with the 5200 xmp of my kingston's. beta bios 116 fixed it though


----------



## IronAge

@CENS ... really insanely nice.


----------



## HiLuckyB

skullbringer said:


> had the same issue on the carbon where channel A would not train higher than 4800, not even with the 5200 xmp of my kingston's. beta bios 116 fixed it though


Where did you find a Beta Bios? I can't find anything for the MSI MPG Z690 Carbon other then the release bios.


----------



## bscool

Where is @OLDFATSHEEP he usually had the MSI bios hookups

Are you sitting out z690?


----------



## clackersx

I literally posted a link to the MSI beta bios a couple posts ago. Random google drive link in the CPU thread. Has carbon 116 listed.








Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Per-E Core Control Enabled E-Core 0-X Disabled. Save & exit. It must look like this before save & exit.




www.overclock.net


----------



## skullbringer

HiLuckyB said:


> Where did you find a Beta Bios? I can't find anything for the MSI MPG Z690 Carbon other then the release bios.





clackersx said:


> I literally posted a link to the MSI beta bios a couple posts ago. Random google drive link in the CPU thread. Has carbon 116 listed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> Per-E Core Control Enabled E-Core 0-X Disabled. Save & exit. It must look like this before save & exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


yup, that's the one ^


----------



## asdkj1740

adata lancer rgb 5200 16g*1 has started to have hynix sticks...............
good luck getting two packs of them and found out only one of them is hynix.
****.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> adata lancer rgb 5200 16g*1 has started to have hynix sticks...............
> good luck getting two packs of them and found out only one of them is hynix.
> ****.


pmic. if it has no high dram oc. no point


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> pmic. if it has no high dram oc. no point


no, bsod all the time, at least on gigabyte bios with win11 os.
no errors detected by tm5 though.

also, lancer rgb has no pmic cooling, no thermal pad there.
near 70c under tm5 absolute config, near 65c under prime95 sfft.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> no, bsod all the time, at least on gigabyte bios with win11 os.
> no errors detected by tm5 though.
> 
> also, lancer rgb has no pmic cooling, no thermal pad there.
> near 70c under tm5 absolute config, near 65c under prime95 sfft.


gigabyte. name seems to ring a bell. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔. 
lol
@owikh84 told me once they are fantastic door stoppers. 
lol.


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> gigabyte. name seems to ring a bell. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔.
> lol
> @owikh84 told me once they are fantastic door stoppers.
> lol.


i don't know, bsod not just when xmp is loaded at 5200mhz, bsod even on 4800mhz default.
so is it really gigabyte fault or mixing dies in the current state is simply a bad idea.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> i don't know, bsod not just when xmp is loaded at 5200mhz, bsod even on 4800mhz default.
> so is it really gigabyte fault or mixing dies in the current state is simply a bad idea.


i suspect theres a flaw with jdec math


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> i suspect microns are flawed with jdec


i guess so, i recall a thread in asus forum saying micron die is more stable under load than at idle, i can verify that, kind of.


----------



## IronAge

asdkj1740 said:


> adata lancer rgb 5200 16g*1 has started to have hynix sticks...............
> good luck getting two packs of them and found out only one of them is hynix.
> ****.


can you make out differences in SN / lot code scheme ?

i was hoping to get Hynix on Adata Premier due to some product pictures, but of course both single DIMM got Micron ICs.


----------



## asdkj1740

IronAge said:


> can you make out differences in SN / lot code scheme ?
> 
> i was hoping to get Hynix on Adata Premier due to some product pictures, but of course both single DIMM got Micron ICs.


for premier you can simply see the dies directly, but for lancer(rgb) you can also peek at the bottom of the dies.
i don't see any clear marks/lot numbers differentiating them. the sn should tell but adata has not shared this info.


----------



## GanMenglin

@cstkl1 

do you have a custom "memory training algorithms" on z690 apex?


----------



## D-EJ915

asdkj1740 said:


> i don't know, bsod not just when xmp is loaded at 5200mhz, bsod even on 4800mhz default.
> so is it really gigabyte fault or mixing dies in the current state is simply a bad idea.


mixing memory ICs in a kit is ... that is something extremely special


----------



## cstkl1

GanMenglin said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> do you have a custom "memory training algorithms" on z690 apex?


yes + skews .. just slight adjustment for my two sticks to work as a pair. i dont think ppl who has kits require them.
with the variation we are seeing on imc, diff ramchipset, ddr4 vs ddr5... theres no confirmation of anything . whats is important is going back to the basics and formulating a math on how all the timings interact. overclock the ram chipset. 
cooling the ram just like ddr4 on rkl can overcome the need for a total deep dive understanding but can also further it. 

my 12900kf behaves TOTALLY diff than my 12900k on the same board & ram. 

example lets ask @sugi0lover .. you had three diff cpus. do they behave the same with your ram/board bro?


----------



## GanMenglin

cstkl1 said:


> yes + skews .. just slight adjustment for my two sticks to work as a pair. i dont think ppl who has kits require them.
> 
> y?


I passed the tm5 absolute & extreme1 anta777 @ 6400c30 37 37 28 T1, but if clear cmos, re-trainning boot, then will fail the test. So I just wanna know, is there a way to keep the trainning more solid or fixed, not so dynamic?


----------



## cstkl1

GanMenglin said:


> I passed the tm5 absolute & extreme1 anta777 @ 6400c30 37 37 28 T1, but if clear cmos, re-trainning boot, then will fail the test. So I just wanna know, is there a way to keep the trainning more solid or fixed, not so dynamic?


its a terrible idea that one test solves all form of stability.

i use diff tools to test diff things.
my "stable" ultimately falls on running hci 1000% as its the industry standard and i do it on diff scenarios.. stock cpu, oced cpu, diff boots etc. karhu has it uses also. 1usmusV3 i use it for diff scenario and nowadays its my go to benchmark to check whether the subtle improvement i did.. have a measurable gain.


----------



## GanMenglin

cstkl1 said:


> its a terrible idea that one test solves it all form of stability.
> 
> i use diff tools to test diff things.
> my "stable" ultimately falls on running hci 1000% as its the industry standard and i do it on diff scenarios.. stock cpu, oced cpu, diff boots etc. karhu has it uses also.


Yes, I also passed HCI 500%. I mean I passed almost all the stable tests, but failed after re-trainning. I did the stable test with MRC fast boot enable which means no need for trainning every boot.


----------



## sblantipodi

damn, when will we see DDR5 in shops? My components are getting the dust since I can't find DDR5 nowhere...


----------



## bscool

sblantipodi said:


> damn, when will we see DDR5 in shops? My components are getting the dust since I can't find DDR5 nowhere...


Magic 8 ball says when EVGA z690 Dark is widly available dddr5 will be also.

I think it depends where a person is. I see some on Hardwareluxx that has multiple kits and are selling the extras/weak kits.

That is why I went z690 ddr4 because I want 6400 ddr5 gksill and that wont be happening anytime soon.


----------



## SuperMumrik

bscool said:


> Magic 8 ball says when EVGA z690 Dark is widly available dddr5 will be also.


Ouch! That's harsh 🤣


----------



## cstkl1

GanMenglin said:


> Yes, I also passed HCI 500%. I mean I passed almost all the stable tests, but failed after re-trainning. I did the stable test with MRC fast boot enable which means no need for trainning every boot.


hmm odd. if u are trained once. u do not need retrain.


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Ouch! That's harsh 🤣


my magic 16 ball says when it comes out
normal ppl trying to run normal setup will face issues and their support is who are you .. and then ppl have to rent jackie chan movie "who am i" for closure

@owikh84 
think we found another awesome quality for door stopper.


----------



## jomama22

Best Apex bios out ATM? About to set it up. Thanks!


----------



## SoldierRBT

jomama22 said:


> Best Apex bios out ATM? About to set it up. Thanks!


0702 if you have Samsung sticks.


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k -SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - 0802
Gskill 2x16gb 6400 c28-37-37-28-1T 280
Asus Strix Rtx 3080ti stock


----------



## robertr1

@cstkl1 if you run HT off for sottr, it should score higher if you want to test and see


----------



## cstkl1

robertr1 said:


> @cstkl1 if you run HT off for sottr, it should score higher if you want to test and see


that cpu not stock. 5.5ghz is needed for ampere to make sure gpu bound is at 0%


----------



## stn1

Sheesh, what Voltages?


----------



## cstkl1

stn1 said:


> Sheesh, what Voltages?


voltage suspension
static floor 1.3
static ceiling 1.35

surprise ppl dont use it. its pretty awesome for benching.


----------



## stn1

cstkl1 said:


> voltage suspension
> static floor 1.3
> static ceiling 1.35



Sorry, was asking about memory?

Had Gigabyte sticks to play with for a couple of days, I did boot into bios with your settings, but not past it. Green Hynix sticks. 

High Voltage mode didn't work on Hero board, could only boot 6666 max but needed to yeet SA to 1.4 

Have my doubts about how realistic 6200/6400 1t will be for non apex/unify-x users


----------



## cstkl1

stn1 said:


> Sorry, was asking about memory?
> 
> Had Gigabyte sticks to play with for a couple of days, I did boot into bios with your settings, but not past it. Green Hynix sticks.
> 
> High Voltage mode didn't work on Hero board, could only boot 6666 max but needed to yeet SA to 1.4
> 
> Have my doubts about how realistic 6200/6400 1t will be for non apex/unify-x users


1.55 .. got so so hynix kits.
good ones would do this @1.45v

unify-X? whats that??


----------



## stn1

cstkl1 said:


> unify-X? whats that??


2 dimm msi, seemingly the best overclocker for mem right now.


----------



## cstkl1

stn1 said:


> 2 dimm msi, seemingly the best overclocker for mem right now.


?? link.


----------



## stn1

cstkl1 said:


> ?? link.


click on 2 dimm msi in the post above


----------



## coolice

Let me know if it has any bug





AsrTCSetup(v4.0.12).7z







drive.google.com


----------



## cstkl1

edit


----------



## cstkl1

stn1 said:


> click on 2 dimm msi in the post above


did u just quote a garbage marketing advert site saying its the best 2dimm board??

atm that board is no diff than 
colorful igame z690

lol. 


coolice said:


> Let me know if it has any bug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AsrTCSetup(v4.0.12).7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534893


thanks bro. finally can see other bank refresh


----------



## cstkl1

@coolice 
thanks dude. can see the math now


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> Where is @OLDFATSHEEP he usually had the MSI bios hookups
> 
> Are you sitting out z690?


Ah just busy these days working on my projects. Will look into Z690 when those are finished


----------



## asdkj1740

D-EJ915 said:


> mixing memory ICs in a kit is ... that is something extremely special


what i mean is having two sticks and one of them is hynix while another one is micron.


----------



## warbucks

coolice said:


> Let me know if it has any bug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AsrTCSetup(v4.0.12).7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534893


tWR isn't being read correctly for me. It's showing 24 when it's set to 12 in bios. I'm using Z690 Strix D4 board.


----------



## stn1

cstkl1 said:


> did u just quote a garbage marketing advert site saying its the best 2dimm board??


No, i've seen some of the Hynix OC results that indicate 7000+ can be achieved and stable on unify, whilst there's people with Apex having 500 MT/s differents between A and B ram slot, both below 7000 MT/s


----------



## bscool

warbucks said:


> tWR isn't being read correctly for me. It's showing 24 when it's set to 12 in bios. I'm using Z690 Strix D4 board.


That is weird, it shows correctly for me on z690 Strix A D4. 12 in bios 12 in ATC. Did you check what MSI Dragon Ball or Asus MemTweakit show in Windows?


----------



## cstkl1

stn1 said:


> No, i've seen some of the Hynix OC results that indicate 7000+ can be achieved and stable on unify, whilst there's people with Apex having 500 MT/s differents between A and B ram slot, both below 7000 MT/s


the problem is not mhz

hmm think theres alot ppl dont seem to understand..its about performance. thats y apex sits there on geekbench WR on 6600c30 only

asus has NEVER done chasing mhz with lower performance.

my kit is worse than sugi value ram kit.

atm apex is tuned for 1T, it doesnt differ with 2T

splave now wiped hwbot board with c30 6600 1T .. also

if anything msi/evga fud in my eye after z590. overhyped, no support.

asrock ocf z590 was superb. if they had more end users on the thread z590 ocf would have been more popular based on the ease @geriatricpollywog was ocing

so if its not apex .. only looking forward to asrock board.
pretty sure i am not the only one with this sentiment.


----------



## IronAge

finally got some decent DDR5 sticks on the way (Trident Z5 5600C36), some got shipping info for 6000/6200 backorders as well, 

seems like german etailer alternate.de got a relatively beefy delivery today, i have two obsolete Kingston Fury Modules.


----------



## skullbringer

IronAge said:


> finally got some decent DDR5 sticks on the way (Trident Z5 5600C36), some got shipping info for 6000/6200 backorders as well,
> 
> seems like german etailer alternate.de got a relatively beefy delivery today, i have two obsolete Kingston Fury Modules.


sadge, missed it again :/


----------



## IronAge

skullbringer said:


> sadge, missed it again :/


i would have had no chance without availability bot and express delivery which gets prioritized









DDR5 RAM Verfügbarkeitshinweise


Neue Verfügbarkeit entdeckt! Name: Kingston DIMM 16 GB DDR5 4800 Arbeitsspeicher Shop: Alternate Preis: 168 € Datum: 24.11.2021 - 14:45:34 URL: https://hwluxx.de/4q1 * Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr! * Es handelt sich um einen Affiliate-Link (Werbung). Wenn Du das Produkt im genannten Shop kaufst...




www.hardwareluxx.de





(Email-Abo auf den Thread)


----------



## warbucks

bscool said:


> That is weird, it shows correctly for me on z690 Strix A D4. 12 in bios 12 in ATC. Did you check what MSI Dragon Ball or Asus MemTweakit show in Windows?


W


bscool said:


> That is weird, it shows correctly for me on z690 Strix A D4. 12 in bios 12 in ATC. Did you check what MSI Dragon Ball or Asus MemTweakit show in Windows?


Dragon Ball is showing tWR=12 as is set in the bios. Asrock showing it as 24.


----------



## robertr1

cstkl1 said:


> i9-12900k -SP93
> Asus MZ690 Apex - 0802
> Gskill 2x16gb 6400 c28-37-37-28-1T 280
> Asus Strix Rtx 3080ti stock


Did you use image scaling to get this score? via NVCP and if so, how much?


----------



## cstkl1

robertr1 said:


> Did you use image scaling to get this score? via NVCP and if so, how much?


none. 
the game at lowest setting 1080p to 800x600 same fps. resolution thing doesnt help. 
could have gotten higher score by ocing vram but thats not the purpose. 
day 1 adl smacked ryzen
then it took adl to defeat adl with ddr4 4300c14 1T
now retail cpu has better timings than es. 
it won with two diff dimm, diff pmic. even a value hynix kit like @sugi0lover shown is already winner winner chicken dinner
ddr4 joirney ends 
thats all da story.
ddr5 now begins with hynix and maybe samsungs. 
6600-6666c28/30 1T thats the target for me


----------



## gnasherrr

friend of mine tested the game on 5.3g p core no e cores 48ring and 6400 30-38 tight subs 2t. not even close to your frames. some fishy going on.
@cstkl1 would you explain how you achieve 300 extra gpu frames when timing and cpu freq are all similar?
below are the benchmark results. the aida run on his system and the subs i tuned which he copied. i would have tested this myself but im on a trip and wont be home until wednesday. i likely will test on 6666 30-38 1t and 5.7g cpu so if i still cant surpass your frames you better tell us your secret cuz maybe rest of us just dont have a single clue what we are doing😁 and somehow can have over 25% of performance difference from your mysterious tuning


----------



## jomama22

gnasherrr said:


> friend of mine tested the game on 5.3g p core no e cores 48ring and 6400 30-38 tight subs 2t. not even close to your frames. some fishy going on.
> @cstkl1 would you explain how you achieve 300 extra gpu frames when timing and cpu freq are all similar?
> below are the benchmark results. the aida run on his system and the subs i tuned which he copied. i would have tested this myself but im on a trip and wont be home until wednesday. i likely will test on 6666 30-38 1t and 5.7g cpu so if i still cant surpass your frames you better tell us your secret cuz maybe rest of us just dont have a single clue what we are doing😁 and somehow can have over 25% of performance difference from your mysterious tuning


I am very curious as to this as well. Min and max gpu frames are very very odd. With my 3090 @ 2200, I get gpu bound (1% but still there) when hitting 358 fps average on ddr4.

I have seen a few people have very odd gpu frames with no explanation as to what it is they are doing, and it is clearly affecting cpu avg as well.


----------



## Apothysis

cstkl1 said:


> none.
> the game at lowest setting 1080p to 800x600 same fps. resolution thing doesnt help.
> could have gotten higher score by ocing vram but thats not the purpose.
> day 1 adl smacked ryzen
> then it took adl to defeat adl with ddr4 4300c14 1T
> now retail cpu has better timings than es.
> it won with two diff dimm, diff pmic. even a value hynix kit like @sugi0lover shown is already winner winner chicken dinner
> ddr4 joirney ends
> thats all da story.
> ddr5 now begins with hynix and maybe samsungs.
> 6600-6666c28/30 1T thats the target for me


So, you're definitely being disingenuous and I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is. It's not like ADL needs the appearance of being better than it is? I do agree with you that enabling NIS/changing resolution modifier ingame doesn't have a big impact on average FPS, typically not even 5 fps gain on a 10900K system..

But, you're posting these screenshots implying that you're running the test at 1080p lowest when you are clearly not. It isn't possible to get those kind of GPU numbers at 1080p lowest with high-end ampere, regardless of how much you yeet your core clocks. You should be in the 800-range or best case lower 900. Definitely not anywhere near above 1100. So I decided to figure out what you're up to.

Run #1: 1080p lowest, no weird stuff going on







Run #2: 1080p lowest, resolution modifier 20% (minimum value) - Interesting gpu numbers, but we're not there yet







Run #3: 720p lowest using NIS - note gpu numbers, still not there







Run #4: 720p lowest using NIS *AND* 20% resolution modifier - Well well, would you look at those gpu numbers.. anyone wanna do the math on actual render resolution?







Also, just to show everyone how easy it is to go on the internet and lie, here's 1080p lowest again with no secret juice:







Just kidding, I just changed the resolution and resolution modifier settings after the run. This is like a world record in shady **** to pull.


----------



## bscool

gnasherrr said:


> friend of mine tested the game on 5.3g p core no e cores 48ring and 6400 30-38 tight subs 2t. not even close to your frames. some fishy going on.
> @cstkl1 would you explain how you achieve 300 extra gpu frames when timing and cpu freq are all similar?
> below are the benchmark results. the aida run on his system and the subs i tuned which he copied. i would have tested this myself but im on a trip and wont be home until wednesday. i likely will test on 6666 30-38 1t and 5.7g cpu so if i still cant surpass your frames you better tell us your secret cuz maybe rest of us just dont have a single clue what we are doing😁 and somehow can have over 25% of performance difference from your mysterious tuning


The screens you are showing are 2 different systems. Is that an error? z690 Formula and z690 Unify X


----------



## gnasherrr

bscool said:


> The screens you are showing are 2 different systems. Is that an error? z690 Formula and z690 Unify X


not an error. i tuned the settings on unify x to 6666 32-38 2t but didnt test anything 3d cuz im lazy plus im on a trip XD. i forwarded these settings to my friend who is on the same hynix sticks as me but on forumla and he tested for me. he tested the game with very untuned secondary and terts and my very tuned subs gave him like 1fps gain. let me show ss.


----------



## gnasherrr

ss added. i guess its more than 1fps but really very insignificant. definitely not anything close to a 25% perf gain XD


----------



## jomama22

Apothysis said:


> So, you're definitely being disingenuous and I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is. It's not like ADL needs the appearance of being better than it is? I do agree with you that enabling NIS/changing resolution modifier ingame doesn't have a big impact on average FPS, typically not even 5 fps gain on a 10900K system..
> 
> But, you're posting these screenshots implying that you're running the test at 1080p lowest when you are clearly not. It isn't possible to get those kind of GPU numbers at 1080p lowest with high-end ampere, regardless of how much you yeet your core clocks. You should be in the 800-range or best case lower 900. Definitely not anywhere near above 1100. So I decided to figure out what you're up to.
> 
> Run #1: 1080p lowest, no weird stuff going on
> View attachment 2535007
> 
> Run #2: 1080p lowest, resolution modifier 20% (minimum value) - Interesting gpu numbers, but we're not there yet
> View attachment 2535008
> 
> Run #3: 720p lowest using NIS - note gpu numbers, still not there
> View attachment 2535010
> 
> Run #4: 720p lowest using NIS *AND* 20% resolution modifier - Well well, would you look at those gpu numbers.. anyone wanna do the math on actual render resolution?
> View attachment 2535011
> 
> Also, just to show everyone how easy it is to go on the internet and lie, here's 1080p lowest again with no secret juice:
> View attachment 2535012
> 
> Just kidding, I just changed the resolution and resolution modifier settings after the run. This is like a world record in shady **** to pull.


Thank you for the explanation. As an example, here a run I did two days ago of adl @ 5.4 with ddr4 DR [email protected] 4133 cl14 and my 3090 at 2200/+1375 1080p lowest:









Still gpu bottlenecked, which just shouldn't be the case with if we take all the "1080p lowest" posts as being true to that.

And yes, I updated video drivers after this to make sure that wasn't were the problem or difference may lie. Got identical scores with the newest drivers as well.

So childish, like does the epeen really matter that much to some people? I do it just to have some sort of comparison to make so I know whether or not my settings are falling inline of where they should.


----------



## gnasherrr

jomama22 said:


> Thank you for the explanation. As an example, here a run I did two days ago of adl @ 5.4 with ddr4 DR [email protected] 4133 cl14 and my 3090 at 2200/+1375 1080p lowest:
> View attachment 2535020
> 
> 
> Still gpu bottlenecked, which just shouldn't be the case with if we take all the "1080p lowest" posts as being true to that.
> 
> And yes, I updated video drivers after this to make sure that wasn't were the problem or difference may lie. Got identical scores with the newest drivers as well.
> 
> So childish, like does the epeen really matter that much to some people? I do it just to have some sort of comparison to make so I know whether or not my settings are falling inline of where they should.


very impressive scores! i would test mine as well but my kp is on mining duty in a remote location and all i have with me is a 2x8pin 3080ti that i wont shunt mod. with that low PL i dont think im matching any of these on the gpu front


----------



## cstkl1

lol these guys. garbage ram oc.
and what u need to see is the cpu
which is why in all your screenshots
fps avg is still same. which just proved my point.

try beating 1:17:20 1usmusV3 20 cycle 24x1.2gb


----------



## gnasherrr

cstkl1 said:


> lol these guys. garbage ram oc.
> and what u need to see is the cpu
> which is why in all your screenshots
> fps avg is still same. which just proved my point.
> 
> try beating 1:17:20 1usmusV3 20 cycle 24x1.2gb


I'm sorry sir to embarrass myself with my garbage timings and 4% lower cpu freq. Is that the mystery behind the 25% performance? Could you show your full timings thru mem tweak it so we can understand what we are all lacking?


----------



## cstkl1

gnasherrr said:


> I'm sorry sir to embarrass myself with my garbage timings and 4% lower cpu freq. Is that the mystery behind the 25% performance? Could you show your full timings thru mem tweak it so we can understand what we are all lacking?


already explained to death from the beginning on 12900k discussion post from ddr5 intricasies etc.. with screenshots of stability with the benchmark u need to beat is right there.

look at how you two started this discussion. ignoring you two right now has more value to me. you guys attacked. then ask to teach.
again back to y should i?? theres nothing you could offer at all in exchange for knowledge to knowledge.

try beating that 1usmusV3 20 cycle 1.2x24gb 

suprise nobody even noticed its been getting lower 
thanks to @coolice asrock tool its even lower now


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> lol these guys. garbage ram oc.
> and what u need to see is the cpu
> which is why in all your screenshots
> fps avg is still same. which just proved my point.
> 
> try beating 1:17:20 1usmusV3 20 cycle 24x1.2gb


Classic. Insult those who question something as your rebuddle. No one insinuated you don't have a good mem oc, only that these posts of "1080p lowest" are not, infact, 1080p lowest.

The gains may be marginal at best for changing resolutions (and as he showed, does infact boost them marginally, hence why YOU used them), but when we are comparing 358-371, 5-10 marginal fps and your posts with your benches say "DDR4 is dead now, Ryzen sucks", and then claim what you show on your screenshot is how you ran it, it just makes you look sketchy as hell.

Anytime anyone challenges you, all you do is name-call and **** on them. It's like reading a 12 year old's manifesto.



> look at how you two started this discussion. ignoring you two right now has more value to me. you guys attacked. then ask to teach.
> again back to y should i?? theres nothing you could offer at all in exchange for knowledge to knowledge


Again, no one attacked you, just pointed out the clear irregularities in your screenshot. And yes, please gatekeep because you are butt hurt about people calling you out and that they don't have knowledge to share, like Jesus man.


----------



## ViTosS

Apothysis said:


> So, you're definitely being disingenuous and I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is. It's not like ADL needs the appearance of being better than it is? I do agree with you that enabling NIS/changing resolution modifier ingame doesn't have a big impact on average FPS, typically not even 5 fps gain on a 10900K system..
> 
> But, you're posting these screenshots implying that you're running the test at 1080p lowest when you are clearly not. It isn't possible to get those kind of GPU numbers at 1080p lowest with high-end ampere, regardless of how much you yeet your core clocks. You should be in the 800-range or best case lower 900. Definitely not anywhere near above 1100. So I decided to figure out what you're up to.
> 
> Run #1: 1080p lowest, no weird stuff going on
> View attachment 2535007
> 
> Run #2: 1080p lowest, resolution modifier 20% (minimum value) - Interesting gpu numbers, but we're not there yet
> View attachment 2535008
> 
> Run #3: 720p lowest using NIS - note gpu numbers, still not there
> View attachment 2535010
> 
> Run #4: 720p lowest using NIS *AND* 20% resolution modifier - Well well, would you look at those gpu numbers.. anyone wanna do the math on actual render resolution?
> View attachment 2535011
> 
> Also, just to show everyone how easy it is to go on the internet and lie, here's 1080p lowest again with no secret juice:
> View attachment 2535012
> 
> Just kidding, I just changed the resolution and resolution modifier settings after the run. This is like a world record in shady **** to pull.


Sorry a bit off topic, but what's your CPU clock and RAM your ran to score that 290fps with an 10900k?


----------



## coolice

v4.0.13 
- update known PMIC vendor





AsrTCSetup(v4.0.13).7z







drive.google.com


----------



## gnasherrr

coolice said:


> v4.0.13
> - update known PMIC vendor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AsrTCSetup(v4.0.13).7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535050


內存魔法師 hello why did you disappear from the qq chat again hahahaha


----------



## sniperpowa

I just ordered some gskill 5600 cl40 Z5 “f5-5600u4040c16gx2-tz5s”. Is this Samsung? Anyone have experience with this kit? It’s all I could get my hands on for now.


----------



## morph.

sniperpowa said:


> I just ordered some gskill 5600 cl40 Z5 “f5-5600u4040c16gx2-tz5s”. Is this Samsung? Anyone have experience with this kit? It’s all I could get my hands on for now.


Damn got a link? Think they are sk hyinx


----------



## gnasherrr

morph. said:


> Damn got a link? Think they are sk hyinx


those are SSG ics


----------



## sniperpowa

gnasherrr said:


> those are SSG ics


Anyone have experience tweaking that kit are they okay?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

gnasherrr said:


> not an error. i tuned the settings on unify x to 6666 32-38 2t but didnt test anything 3d cuz im lazy plus im on a trip XD. i forwarded these settings to my friend who is on the same hynix sticks as me but on forumla and he tested for me. he tested the game with very untuned secondary and terts and my very tuned subs gave him like 1fps gain. let me show ss.


Can you test how high in frequency is really Gsat stable?
Only the frequency, to drive the hardest sub´s is not important, the limit of stable imc transfer i think is interesting.Because tm5 is not really a stability test for that.


----------



## gnasherrr

PhoenixMDA said:


> Can you test how high in frequency is really Gsat stable?
> Only the frequency, to drive the hardest sub´s is not important, the limit of stable imc transfer i think is interesting.Because tm5 is not really a stability test for that.





PhoenixMDA said:


> Can you test how high in frequency is really Gsat stable?
> Only the frequency, to drive the hardest sub´s is not important, the limit of stable imc transfer i think is interesting.Because tm5 is not really a stability test for that.


Sure yea. I haven't used gsat tho I was testing with karhu mostly


----------



## gnasherrr

sniperpowa said:


> Anyone have experience tweaking that kit are they okay?


The only person I know who had one of these also bought the 5600c36 kit and both are ssg. And he sold the 5600c40 one just for the respect of the xmp spec advantage. So I guess I have no idea if they are okay. But the thing is even ssg oem v07 and v05 sticks do 6400 ish on apex. If you have some binned oems sticks posting 7000 is not hard either with newer bioses. But ofc stability is another story. The gskill kits should be on v09 pcb and should just be better.


----------



## gnasherrr

Some early proof of concept. Getting started to stress test memory


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - 00093
Gskill 2x16gb 6666 36-39-39-28 2T 280 @1.55
SA|tx vddq|mc - 0.9|1.45|1.45


----------



## gnasherrr

Hcl/runmtpro is garbage on alderlake and should be abandoned all together. I did some preliminary stress testing with the timing shown above and hcl takes>5min to throw a single error and karhu throws 4 errors in 7sec then proceed to bsod lmao. Tm5 on the same timing errors in 1sec.


----------



## Esenel

@gnasherrr 
As always.
Such things cannot be generalized.
I already had a 6400 setting which ran through 10000% Karhu.
Then failed in a few seconds in TM5.
Testing all three of them is what gives you a good hint about stability.
Not less not more.


----------



## neurokirurgi

I've got some Asus OEM sticks where ASUS didn't bother to do more than create their own label for the package. These seem to be Micron OEM sticks:









But they're not completely trash, I managed to get 5400 38-40-36-52 out of them with reasonable voltages (1.30 VDD, 1.35 VDDQ, 1.25 SA, 1.25 MC). SA is probably unnecessarily high, I just put it somewhere high so I could factor it out if there's any instability I have to deal with. 










I have no idea about tertiaries on Intel to be honest with you, and so I blatantly copied them off one of the screenshots Falkentyne posted 










Any suggestions where to go next? tCL = 36 isn't stable, tRCD becomes unstable at 38 (Haven't tried 39 yet). Is there anything that jumps out to you guys?


----------



## cstkl1

dreams do come true

i9- 12900k - SP 93
Asus MZ690 Apex - 0093
Gskill 2x16gb 6666 28-39-39-28-296 2T


----------



## gnasherrr

Progress. tm5 is on going. Gonna gsat after that.


----------



## gnasherrr

Esenel said:


> @gnasherrr
> As always.
> Such things cannot be generalized.
> I already had a 6400 setting which ran through 10000% Karhu.
> Then failed in a few seconds in TM5.
> Testing all three of them is what gives you a good hint about stability.
> Not less not more.


No. Mt being bad on adl is confirmed by at least 5ppl now after I talked about it in chat groups. Sure tm5 and karhu complement each other nicely but there is no room for hcl. Especially those 100% hcl runs. Laughable


----------



## Hulk1988

cstkl1 said:


> dreams do come true
> 
> i9- 12900k - SP 93
> Asus MZ690 Apex - 0093
> Gskill 2x16gb 6666 28-39-39-28-296 2T


Could I try your RAM settings on my APEX with Team 6400 as well?


----------



## cstkl1

Hulk1988 said:


> Could I try your RAM settings on my APEX with Team 6400 as well?


try 0093 its easy. almost effortless.











this is for 2T dreamers. ppl are doing 7200 on air now.

i need to test more ram sticks to confirm its use case. atm my settings kindda bonkers cause its tight but reduces sa due to few other adjustment for my odd combi ram.

u can see it in hci. i have two diff sticks.

as far as i can tell. my ram are the worst case scenario hynix kit oc on apex. 
lol. its arnd [email protected] on the dot.


----------



## Shonk

How are you all getting on with overclocking
been messing with mine for the last two days
not finished though

i9 12900K
Z690 Aorus Master
2 x 32GB Crucial 4800 Dual Rank
Liquid Freezer II 280 ARGB

Base Clock = 100.30
DDR5 XMP Booster = Micron 5200 38-38-38-83-1.250
CPU Vcore = Normal
Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
Internal VCCSA = Normal (0.918V in bios) (Auto is 1.35V lol)
DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.300V
VDD2 CPU = 1.200V (1.150V had random issues with power down and power back up under memory load stress)
CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration = Normal

Active Turbo Ratios
52,51,50,50,50,50,50,50
40,40,40,40,40,40,40,40

CAS = 36
tRCD = 37
TRP = 37
tRAS = 42
tRFC = 380
tRFC2 = 380
tFAW = 32
tREFI = 58320

Pass Karhu 5060% with FPU Stress

*Further Testing*
Ram Voltage with Micron 5200 DDR5 XMP Booster Profile is reading 1.200 V in HWiNFO
Ram Voltage set 1.250V = 1.245V in HWiNFO
Ram Voltage set 1.260V = 1.260V in HWiNFO
Ram Voltage set 1.300V = 1.290V in HWiNFO

*DRAM Vdd/VddQ 1.250V*
Failed Karhu 1328% 1h 1m with FPU Stress

*DRAM Vdd/VddQ 1.260V*
Passed Karhu 2805% 2h 19m with FPU Stress

*Bugs i have found with Z690 Aorus Master*
Using Custom XMP profile saved to the ram spd = retrain on every boot even reboot
Using DDR5 XMP Booster with the same settings = reboots fine, power up fine, Cold Power up Retrain
ARGB settings arnt applied at a hardware level so have to be set on every boot


----------



## cstkl1

Shonk said:


> How are you all getting on with overclocking
> been messing with mine for the last two days
> not finished though
> 
> i9 12900K
> Z690 Aorus Master
> 2 x 32GB Crucial 4800 Dual Rank
> Liquid Freezer II 280 ARGB
> 
> Base Clock = 100.30
> DDR5 XMP Booster = Micron 5200 38-38-38-83-1.250
> CPU Vcore = Normal
> Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
> Internal VCCSA = Normal (0.918V in bios) (Auto is 1.35V lol)
> DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.300V
> VDD2 CPU = 1.200V (1.150V had random issues with power down and power back up under memory load stress)
> CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration = Normal
> 
> Active Turbo Ratios
> 52,51,50,50,50,50,50,50
> 40,40,40,40,40,40,40,40
> 
> CAS = 36
> tRCD = 37
> TRP = 37
> tRAS = 42
> tRFC = 380
> tRFC2 = 380
> tFAW = 32
> tREFI = 58320
> 
> Pass Karhu 5060% with FPU Stress
> 
> *Further Testing*
> Ram Voltage with Micron 5200 DDR5 XMP Booster Profile is reading 1.200 V in HWiNFO
> Ram Voltage set 1.250V = 1.245V in HWiNFO
> Ram Voltage set 1.260V = 1.260V in HWiNFO
> Ram Voltage set 1.300V = 1.290V in HWiNFO
> 
> *DRAM Vdd/VddQ 1.250V*
> Failed Karhu 1328% 1h 1m with FPU Stress
> 
> *DRAM Vdd/VddQ 1.260V*
> Passed Karhu 2805% 2h 19m with FPU Stress
> 
> *Bugs i have found with Z690 Aorus Master*
> Using Custom XMP profile saved to the ram spd = retrain on every boot even reboot
> Using DDR5 XMP Booster with the same settings = reboots fine, power up fine, Cold Power up Retrain
> ARGB settings arnt applied at a hardware level so have to be set on every boot
> 
> View attachment 2535321


you should pm buildzoid.


----------



## Shonk

I pm'd him when my son's gfx card poped a MLCC a year ago and he just blanked me up
ended up fixing it anyway just wanted to make sure i was fitting the right part


----------



## cstkl1

Shonk said:


> I pm'd him when my son's gfx card poped a MLCC a year ago and he just blanked me up
> ended up fixing it anyway just wanted to make sure i was fitting the right part


if u had said free card. he would be infront of your door as fast as dhl

dont know anybody else here affiliated with giga.


----------



## Esenel

gnasherrr said:


> No. Mt being bad on adl is confirmed by at least 5ppl now after I talked about it in chat groups. Sure tm5 and karhu complement each other nicely but there is no room for hcl. Especially those 100% hcl runs. Laughable


Oh sorry.
When 5 people in your chat group say that the industry standard is garbage, then of course this is true.


----------



## gnasherrr

Esenel said:


> Oh sorry.
> When 5 people in your chat group say that the industry standard is garbage, then of course this is true.


Lmao industrial standard of blue screening?


----------



## Esenel

gnasherrr said:


> Lmao industrial standard of blue screening?


Ok sorry.
Please tell G.Skill they are stupid.
You and your 5 friends know better.












https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1634179023/G.SKILL-Announces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


----------



## gnasherrr

Esenel said:


> Ok sorry.
> Please tell G.Skill they are stupid.
> You and your 5 friends know better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1634179023/G.SKILL-Announces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


They use the validation grandfathered from 10-15yrs ago to keep the consistency. Doesn't make it a valid test for alderlake. The runmt they use is so old that it's not even showing the hcl version used, which is like pretty ****ing bad cuz some older versions are even lighter of a stress test.


----------



## Nizzen

gnasherrr said:


> They use the validation grandfathered from 10-15yrs ago to keep the consistency. Doesn't make it a valid test for alderlake.


What is THE ONE memorytest for AlderLake in your opinion?


----------



## gnasherrr

Nizzen said:


> What is THE ONE memorytest for AlderLake in your opinion?


Karhu+tm5 imo. Tm5 is hit and miss sometimes since the test order isn't always set up for the fastest error reporting also with some of the individual tests of older profiles have the block size set to below adl's large cache size and it basically becomes a cache test. I say older but even cfg like anta h5pot/extreme are hit. There is also another draw back that is supposed to be an advantage that is it's too customizable. Ppl with an agenda to can mod the cfg files in many ways to cheat to make it look like it's stable. I guess it's meant for ppl who knows what they are doing and can mod the cfg accordingly but then it won't be standardized among users, which is kinda important for comparison/reference amongst ppl like what we are doing here. Also I haven't tested gsat maybe that's potentially a candidate but it remains to be seen.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Esenel said:


> Ok sorry.
> Please tell G.Skill they are stupid.
> You and your 5 friends know better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1634179023/G.SKILL-Announces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


How high you get Gsat stable, if you test not only one lucky run?
Normal you testing ever also gsat...


----------



## gnasherrr

One loop no error. I'm getting close.


----------



## storm-chaser

delete


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> What is THE ONE memorytest for AlderLake in your opinion?


Prime95 Large FFT (30.7 build 9+) still works as well as ever.


https://www.mersenne.org/ftp_root/gimps/p95v307b9.win64.zip


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> What is THE ONE memorytest for AlderLake in your opinion?


just like rkl. tm5 1usmusV3 high cycle count for algo/skew
hci for timing
karhu atm has no value when both above is consistent.

adl is same like rkl. you oc your chipset. formulate a timings. adjust things to get timings to work. 

find the best pairing to with lowest SA required. done.

for 2T









this atm is interesting.

use for 1T havent test yet. still checking bugs for current tuning by asus


----------



## sugi0lover

Oops.wrong forum.. plz delete this.


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> Oops.wrong forum.. plz delete this.


Please keep onlyfans to pm, thanks


----------



## matique

Hi guys, having some trouble bringing my latency down, i think it might be specific to this board. 

Gskill 5600c36 samsung stock. 
1.25 SA, 1.4 vdimm, 1.4 txvddq, 1.3 mc i think. 

Shouldn't 6000c32 tightened get sub 60? Any other z690i strix owners out there haha.


----------



## Benni231990

makes the CT 1T and 2T big differenc?


----------



## gnasherrr

matique said:


> Hi guys, having some trouble bringing my latency down, i think it might be specific to this board.
> 
> Gskill 5600c36 samsung stock.
> 1.25 SA, 1.4 vdimm, 1.4 txvddq, 1.3 mc i think.
> 
> Shouldn't 6000c32 tightened get sub 60? Any other z690i strix owners out there haha.


Turn off ring downbin or just fix ring ratio.


----------



## matique

gnasherrr said:


> Turn off ring downbin or just fix ring ratio.


Min/max 4100 ring? Thanks for your input!! Good luck with your ram oc attempt. Wild stuff.


----------



## Falkentyne

matique said:


> Hi guys, having some trouble bringing my latency down, i think it might be specific to this board.
> 
> Gskill 5600c36 samsung stock.
> 1.25 SA, 1.4 vdimm, 1.4 txvddq, 1.3 mc i think.
> 
> Shouldn't 6000c32 tightened get sub 60? Any other z690i strix owners out there haha.


Maybe try lowering TWR and TRTP? Do you really need 10 and 20 for Samsung? Try 8/16. Also set your DR and DD values to 4 (You didn't do that for trdwr "dr/dd").


----------



## matique

Setting fixed ring, and killing off aquasuite shaved off 5ns. Didn't know aquasuite would take that much bandwidth.


----------



## matique

Falkentyne said:


> Maybe try lowering TWR and TRTP? Do you really need 10 and 20 for Samsung? Try 8/16. Also set your DR and DD values to 4 (You didn't do that for trdwr "dr/dd").


Noted! Will try it tomorrow haha its 3.30am here. Thank you.


----------



## gnasherrr

matique said:


> Setting fixed ring, and killing off aquasuite shaved off 5ns. Didn't know aquasuite would take that much bandwidth.


Ring is low. Try for 45+


----------



## matique

gnasherrr said:


> Ring is low. Try for 45+


Sp84. Tried 45 ring, crashed quickly. Found 43 to be stable. This was tested at 40 though. Will try 42 later after work.


----------



## skullbringer

if you are validating for daily stability, always use at least 2 different memory stress tests

hci behaves differently depending on version and how it is launched via native gui or dang wang. gskill want to show what their memory can do in a best case scenario with 1 screenshot, doesn't show voltage, subtimings, repeatability


----------



## cstkl1

saw one noob say lucky ss.










just not bothered running 2t long runs. its just too slow. unless somebody wants it.

safedisk has a 6800c30 tight ss

so board will deliver what u want. limitation is imc, ram and temps


skullbringer said:


> if you are validating for daily stability, always use at least 2 different memory stress tests
> 
> hci behaves differently depending on version and how it is launched via native gui or dang wang. gskill want to show what their memory can do in a best case scenario with 1 screenshot, doesn't show voltage, subtimings, repeatability


what ppl need to learn instead of going to discord copy values others tell them to use like best 130560 trfc etc. is learn how everything ties together.

each test has a strength to test specific aspect of training after you formulate a timing.

just like rkl you formulate timing, adjust training to fit.

each tools test diff aspect of training.

6666c28 2t 1:24:45
6400c28 1t 1:17:17

stock cpu. cache oc wont boost latency much when your timings etc are correct.
becareful of ppl with agendas. they disappear just like how they appear .

repeat
again formulate . test it, test them all. see whats the best and most efficient. test consistency.


----------



## Shonk

I have settled on this for now

*Passed Karhu 12400% 9h:35m with FPU Stress*

Base CLock = 100.30
DDR5 XMP Booster = Micron 5200 38-38-38-83-1.250 
CPU Vcore = Normal
CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration = Normal
Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
Internal VCCSA = 1.100V (Auto was 1.342V)
DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.260V
VDD2 CPU = 1.200V

Active Turbo Ratios
52,51,50,50,50,50,50,50
40,40,40,40,40,40,40,40

CAS = 36
tRCD = 37
TRP = 37
tRAS = 42
tRFC = 380
tRFC2 = 380
tFAW = 32
tREFI = 58320


----------



## clackersx

HiLuckyB said:


> I can't get my MSI MPG Z690 Carbon to boot anything other then the default 4800MHz. I have a set of XPG Lancer 5200MHz CL38 1.25v DDR5.
> This is my first time with a MSI motherboard, And I feel like I'm missing something to get the memory to work 🙃


@HiLuckyB 
Hey boss, did you have any luck getting this kit stable?
There are newer beta bios's, same old link and google drive  118 for the Carbon and A14 for the Force I believe. 
(I think they are the exact same bios updates or edits, wish they used the same version number, I know they are the same board MS-7D30, I know the use different bios's probably different graphics or styles being the only difference)


----------



## HiLuckyB

clackersx said:


> @HiLuckyB
> Hey boss, did you have any luck getting this kit stable?
> There are newer beta bios's, same old link and google drive  118 for the Carbon and A14 for the Force I believe.
> (I think they are the exact same bios updates or edits, wish they used the same version number, I know they are the same board MS-7D30, I know the use different bios's probably different graphics or styles being the only difference)


I've tried 116 and 117 and so far I can only get 5000MHz to work. I can get to windows at 5200MHz but it blue screens within like 3 minutes with up to 1.35v. 
Going to try flashing 118 tonight to see if it's any better.


----------



## 2500k_2

@HiLuckyB 
try 118U1 . It is more optimized for hynix, but maybe it will help you.


https://anonfiles.com/J3g1P4a7vf/MPG_Z690_CARBON_WIFI118U1_zip


----------



## HiLuckyB

So with 118 and 118U1 XMP settings added manually 5200MHz 38-38-38-76 1.25v-1.35v is unstable and blue screens before windows is done loading.
But 5200MHz 38-39-39-76 1.25v is stable 🙃
So I'm very confused as to why this is...


----------



## laphroaig

Shonk said:


> I have settled on this for now
> 
> *Passed Karhu 12400% 9h:35m with FPU Stress*
> 
> Base CLock = 100.30
> DDR5 XMP Booster = Micron 5200 38-38-38-83-1.250
> CPU Vcore = Normal
> CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration = Normal
> Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
> Internal VCCSA = 1.100V (Auto was 1.342V)
> DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.260V
> VDD2 CPU = 1.200V
> 
> Active Turbo Ratios
> 52,51,50,50,50,50,50,50
> 40,40,40,40,40,40,40,40
> 
> CAS = 36
> tRCD = 37
> TRP = 37
> tRAS = 42
> tRFC = 380
> tRFC2 = 380
> tFAW = 32
> tREFI = 58320
> 
> View attachment 2535586
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535587


Mind sharing your timing settings with memtweakit? And to confirm, these are 4800 microns at stock?


----------



## HiLuckyB

laphroaig said:


> Mind sharing your timing settings with memtweakit? And to confirm, these are 4800 microns at stock?


I'm on a MSI Z690 Carbon, So I don't think memtweakit will work for me.
The kit is a micron 5200MHz 38-38-38 1.25v kit, But either the kit is unstable at its rated speed or MSI bios is really messing something up.


----------



## gnasherrr

Not me but a glimpse of what dual rank hynix do. Very strong indeed.


----------



## Esenel

gnasherrr said:


> View attachment 2535743
> 
> Not me but a glimpse of what dual rank hynix do. Very strong indeed.


Pretty weak for the frequency and timings.


----------



## gnasherrr

Esenel said:


> Pretty weak for the frequency and timings.


Prolly auto and garbage timings. But it's doing 6600 XD


----------



## gnasherrr

Some updates from me. I didn't test for true stability ie hours of stress testing so it's mostly proof of concepts with I guess relatively high confidence of stability? Something is off about my os I think cuz I have done some of these timing/freq before and my latency was generally 1-2ns lower but oh well plus it's stock win11 so latency I think is naturally higher than win10 but w/e I'm not chasing that here just some verifications.


6600 30-38 2t tight subs karhu 1000%+tm5 abs one cycle for baseline.








6800 32-40 2t right subs karhu 1000%+tm5 abs one cycle.



















6800 32-39 2t same subs 1000+% karhu didn't bother showing timings or testing tm5 cuz this is not something I would daily just for verification.








7000 34-40 2t mostly auto subs failed karhu attempt. Im still working on this one but hey it's 7000 dual channel. Thought it might be interesting to show.









Bonus for fun.
6800 32-39 1t tight subs aida run. No bclk used straight boot 6800. No idea why latency is high I'm still investigating and I will try to get this one stable!









last bonus. got bored and see how much i can post max with bclk. did 7300+ no windows tho :/


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
G.Skill 2x16gb 6600 28-37-37-28 280 1T @1.65
SA|txvddq|mc - 0.9 |1.45|1.45

if only could buy better rams


----------



## cstkl1

gnasherrr said:


> Some updates from me. I didn't test for true stability ie hours of stress testing so it's mostly proof of concepts with I guess relatively high confidence of stability? Something is off about my os I think cuz I have done some of these timing/freq before and my latency was generally 1-2ns lower but oh well plus it's stock win11 so latency I think is naturally higher than win10 but w/e I'm not chasing that here just some verifications.
> 
> 
> 6600 30-38 2t tight subs karhu 1000%+tm5 abs one cycle for baseline.
> View attachment 2535759
> 
> 6800 32-40 2t right subs karhu 1000%+tm5 abs one cycle.
> 
> View attachment 2535750
> 
> View attachment 2535758
> 
> 
> 
> 6800 32-39 2t same subs 1000+% karhu didn't bother showing timings or testing tm5 cuz this is not something I would daily just for verification.
> View attachment 2535751
> 
> 7000 34-40 2t mostly auto subs failed karhu attempt. Im still working on this one but hey it's 7000 dual channel. Thought it might be interesting to show.
> View attachment 2535753
> 
> 
> Bonus for fun.
> 6800 32-39 1t tight subs aida run. No bclk used straight boot 6800. No idea why latency is high I'm still investigating and I will try to get this one stable!
> View attachment 2535756
> 
> 
> last bonus. got bored and see how much i can post max with bclk. did 7300+ no windows tho :/
> View attachment 2535779


thats really impressive dude . even booting that is crazy.

eta on retail availability ?


----------



## gnasherrr

cstkl1 said:


> thats really impressive dude . even booting that is crazy.
> 
> eta on retail availability ?


thx. its already available in china due to them having a factory in china but im not sure about the availability worldwide. should be soon TM but who knows


----------



## skullbringer

So how do you get DDR5 Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die to run at XMP without freezing the system after 15mins of TM5? 0 errors, just freeze and restart


----------



## Nizzen

gnasherrr said:


> Some updates from me. I didn't test for true stability ie hours of stress testing so it's mostly proof of concepts with I guess relatively high confidence of stability? Something is off about my os I think cuz I have done some of these timing/freq before and my latency was generally 1-2ns lower but oh well plus it's stock win11 so latency I think is naturally higher than win10 but w/e I'm not chasing that here just some verifications.
> 
> 
> 6600 30-38 2t tight subs karhu 1000%+tm5 abs one cycle for baseline.
> View attachment 2535759
> 
> 6800 32-40 2t right subs karhu 1000%+tm5 abs one cycle.
> 
> View attachment 2535750
> 
> View attachment 2535758
> 
> 
> 
> 6800 32-39 2t same subs 1000+% karhu didn't bother showing timings or testing tm5 cuz this is not something I would daily just for verification.
> View attachment 2535751
> 
> 7000 34-40 2t mostly auto subs failed karhu attempt. Im still working on this one but hey it's 7000 dual channel. Thought it might be interesting to show.
> View attachment 2535753
> 
> 
> Bonus for fun.
> 6800 32-39 1t tight subs aida run. No bclk used straight boot 6800. No idea why latency is high I'm still investigating and I will try to get this one stable!
> View attachment 2535756
> 
> 
> last bonus. got bored and see how much i can post max with bclk. did 7300+ no windows tho :/
> View attachment 2535779


Nice job!
What ddr5 model is it?


----------



## gnasherrr

Nizzen said:


> Nice job!
> What ddr5 model is it?


its the oloy 6200 36-36-36 1.35v


----------



## mattxx88

who knows what chip could this kit mount?

CMT32GX5M2X5600C36


https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X5600C36



seems to be at least hynix, maybe samsung?


----------



## Nizzen

mattxx88 said:


> who knows what chip could this kit mount?
> 
> CMT32GX5M2X5600C36
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X5600C36
> 
> 
> 
> seems to be at least hynix, maybe samsung?


Corsair IS garbage, and it's Micron.. I have this LOL
Waiting for G.skill 6000 c36 and T-force 6400


----------



## mattxx88

Nizzen said:


> Corsair IS garbage, and it's Micron.. I have this LOL
> Waiting for G.skill 6000 c36 and T-force 6400


I have those Corsair too but 5200c38
First time I see 5600c36 by xmp they seems to be a new model from Corsair. 
Mine cannot do 5600c36 at any voltage, that's why I supposed different chip
I got gskill canceled from LDLC, need to find another shop for a preorder


----------



## neurokirurgi

I think I've hit the wall with these OEM Micron sticks. Can't seem to lower tCL or tRCD, and tertiaries don't seem to lower anymore without shooting up errors. DDR5-5600 isn't stable under any combination of voltages or timings.

SA = 1.1
VDD/VDDQ = 1.33/1.38
MC = 1.25

54x2,53x4,52x7,51x8, TVB +1boostprofile, E-cores at 41x4,40x8, ring 40-43x

Still, I'd say I'm fairly happy with them, I thought they wouldn't clock for ****. Wasn't planning on keeping them for that long, I want a proper Samsung or Hynix kit as soon as they're available.


----------



## dante`afk

cstkl1 said:


> what ppl need to learn instead of going to discord copy values others tell them to use like best 130560 trfc etc. is learn how everything ties together.


that's true, if you have the time and tenacity and sanity to do all of that, hats off to you.

I don't have the time, so I'll just copy your values


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> that's true, if you have the time and tenacity and sanity to do all of that, hats off to you.
> 
> I don't have the time, so I'll just copy your values


ocn.
lurkers, youtubers copy.


----------



## sugi0lover

This is my first post on this thread and I will try to share some info
There are two basic DDR5 4800 CL40 bare ram kits in Korea (Samsung and Hynix) and it seems like people have better oc with hynix than samsung.
I can share some results from me and my friends.

[My result -* Hynix 4800 CL40* oc to 6500hz-30-37-37-26-280-1T
VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v, Apex]
bclk oc = a little better aida64 (bug)









[My friend's - *Hynix 4800 CL40* oc to 6600 30-38-38-30-280-2T
VDD1.435 / VDDQ1.435 / MC 1.3, Apex]









[My friend's - *Samsung 4800 CL40* oc to 6118 30-40-40-68-420-2T,
*not Apex, MSI Force Wifi*]
He is going to change to Apex and I will update how this Samsung 4800 CL40 works.









[Edit : changed to higher resolution pic]


----------



## Middleman

Nizzen said:


> What is THE ONE memorytest for AlderLake in your opinion?


Latency, and bandwidth


----------



## Middleman

Bro is killing it with *Hynix , *a brand i always avoided on GPU card's back in the day. lol. Who would of guessed.


----------



## asdkj1740

is "page fault in nonpaged area" bsod related to bad memory oc / memory not stable?


----------



## gnasherrr

asdkj1740 said:


> is "page fault in nonpaged area" bsod related to bad memory oc / memory not stable?


Afaik yes


----------



## Falkentyne

asdkj1740 said:


> is "page fault in nonpaged area" bsod related to bad memory oc / memory not stable?


Either memory errors or E cores unstable (either Cache too high with the E cores enabled, or E cores just unstable).
Most of the time, Clock Watchdog Timeout means the P cores crashed.
If the E cores are disabled, it's almost always clock watchdog timeout if the P cores crashed, just like Rocket Lake. If it's other errors, either your memory is unstable or you super yeeted the Ring.


----------



## asdkj1740

Falkentyne said:


> Either memory errors or E cores unstable (either Cache too high with the E cores enabled, or E cores just unstable).
> Most of the time, Clock Watchdog Timeout means the P cores crashed.
> If the E cores are disabled, it's almost always clock watchdog timeout if the P cores crashed, just like Rocket Lake. If it's other errors, either your memory is unstable or you super yeeted the Ring.


thank you.



gnasherrr said:


> Afaik yes


thanks.


----------



## sugi0lover

For someone's request, here is the cmo file for Z690 Apex I posted above.
*Hynix 4800 CL40* oc to 6500hz-30-37-37-26-280-1T
VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v






Z690Apex_6500_C30_1T.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## Benni231990

i have a question why all other micron users can only run stock 5200 or maybe 5400 ? i thought all micron can run 5600?

so im the only how can run micron at 5600 Cl36? with full second and third timmings

and makes 1T and 2T a big difference?


----------



## dante`afk

Benni231990 said:


> i have a question why all other micron users can only run stock 5200 or maybe 5400 ? i thought all micron can run 5600?
> 
> so im the only how can run micron at 5600 Cl36? with full second and third timmings
> 
> and makes 1T and 2T a big difference?


maybe imc who knows

I'm able to run your setting as well, 5600 36


----------



## neurokirurgi

Benni231990 said:


> i have a question why all other micron users can only run stock 5200 or maybe 5400 ? i thought all micron can run 5600?
> 
> so im the only how can run micron at 5600 Cl36? with full second and third timmings
> 
> and makes 1T and 2T a big difference?


I'm able to boot and run my sticks at 5600, and I did Karhu to 10000% with loose primaries and auto tertiaries with the latest Z690 Hero test BIOS that Shamino posted earlier today. Before this BIOS, I would always get an error within a couple of minutes at 5600 no matter what the timings and the voltages.

Currently running tests on 36-39-36-52 with the same secondaries and tertiaries I had before when running 5400 36-39-35-50. Currently at 400%, wish me luck! 

Edit: aaand of course it gives me an error at 1500%. I’m guessing tRFC, so I’m upping that to 375 and giving it a new spin


----------



## Benni231990

ok so im not the only one


----------



## neurokirurgi

neurokirurgi said:


> I'm able to boot and run my sticks at 5600, and I did Karhu to 10000% with loose primaries and auto tertiaries with the latest Z690 Hero test BIOS that Shamino posted earlier today. Before this BIOS, I would always get an error within a couple of minutes at 5600 no matter what the timings and the voltages.
> 
> Currently running tests on 36-39-36-52 with the same secondaries and tertiaries I had before when running 5400 36-39-35-50. Currently at 400%, wish me luck!
> 
> Edit: aaand of course it gives me an error at 1500%. I’m guessing tRFC, so I’m upping that to 375 and giving it a new spin












Let's go boooooooooys

Same voltages as before, SA = 1.1 ; VDD/VDDQ = 1.33/1.38 ; MC = 1.25 ; TX VDDQ = 1.38


----------



## dante`afk

anyone knows if the gskill 6000 cl36 are hynix or samsung? at least the cl 40 on asus page show as hynix


----------



## SoldierRBT

dante`afk said:


> anyone knows if the gskill 6000 cl36 are hynix or samsung? at least the cl 40 on asus page show as hynix


All G.Skill Trident Z5 kits are currently Samsung. Asus website info is wrong. It even says 6400C40 Teamgroup is Micron


----------



## dante`afk

SoldierRBT said:


> All G.Skill kits are currently Samsung. Asus website info is wrong. It even says 6400C40 Teamgroup is Micron



hmmm, so @cstkl1 is a unicorn with the ES kit? his screens show gskill 6000 cl40 with sk hynix


----------



## SoldierRBT

I believe letter A in the model is Hynix and E means Samsung


----------



## asdkj1740

peek before buying 16g*1 pack.
this is adata xpg lancer rgb 5200, both produced in week43.


----------



## asdkj1740

dante`afk said:


> hmmm, so @cstkl1 is a unicorn with the ES kit? his screens show gskill 6000 cl40 with sk hynix


peek please.

samsung













hynix


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> All G.Skill kits are currently Samsung. Asus website info is wrong. It even says 6400C40 Teamgroup is Micron


 Gskill 5200 CL40 Ripjaws S5 kits are Micron, not Samsung.


----------



## jomama22

My teamgroup hynix for those curious

And if you plan on taking off the heat spreaders, there are no screws, just hilariously tacky thermal tape on the ic's, back has a foam block that will pull off first. Absolute pita to pull off the ic's though so be careful.


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanks to Asus's hard work, Apex Bios 0053 opened the new world for the basic Hynix 4800 CL40.
I found it out just before going to bed yesterday, so I just did quick test with Bios 0053 + Hynix 4800 CL40 Rams.

All sub-timings tightened for the below.

6666-30-37-37-28-300-2T
6666-28-37-37-28-290-2T
6600-30-37-37-26-280-1T
I will share my stable result during the weekend.


----------



## sugi0lover

Oh my friend already posted his stable oc with Hynix 4800 CL40. Here it is.

*▼ Hynix DDR5 16G x 2 / 6400 CL28-37-37-28 1T / VDD 1.5v / VDDQ 1.47v / MC 1.2*


----------



## Falkentyne

neurokirurgi said:


> View attachment 2536262
> 
> 
> Let's go boooooooooys
> 
> Same voltages as before, SA = 1.1 ; VDD/VDDQ = 1.33/1.38 ; MC = 1.25 ; TX VDDQ = 1.38


Pretty much copied your timings and also seem to have no problem at 5600 also, except my tWR is 16 (well it'is supposed to be 16, idk why it's 18 and I can't be bothered fixing that now, probably twrpre or twrpden needs to be lowered a notch), tCKE 4, tccd_l_dll 8, and I managed to set twrrd_sg and dg to 56/46. VDD and VDDQ=1.35 and 1.40v, SA: 1.25v (because why not)
(I think I set that by setting tWTR_L to 12 and tWTR_S to 1, which control twrrd_sg and dg).


----------



## neurokirurgi

Falkentyne said:


> Pretty much copied your timings and also seem to have no problem at 5600 also, except my tWR is 16 (well it'is supposed to be 16, idk why it's 18 and I can't be bothered fixing that now, probably twrpre or twrpden needs to be lowered a notch), tCKE 4, tccd_l_dll 8, and I managed to set twrrd_sg and dg to 56/46. VDD and VDDQ=1.35 and 1.40v, SA: 1.25v (because why not)
> (I think I set that by setting tWTR_L to 12 and tWTR_S to 1, which control twrrd_sg and dg).


And so we go full circle haha, this was me one week ago:



neurokirurgi said:


> I have no idea about tertiaries on Intel to be honest with you, and so I blatantly copied them off one of the screenshots Falkentyne posted


But anyways, I think I might still be able to tighten tRFC and tWRDEN, I loosened timings one by one until I managed to be Karhu stable (it was most likely tRDWR's at 15 that caused me to get errors after 1000+% since that was the last timing I loosened), but I'm not sure if I'll bother. Maybe once I get the itch to tweak something again.

Should I leave tWRRD's on auto in BIOS and instead control them with tWTR_S and tWTR_L? I thought it was the other way around? Asrock TC reports my tWTR_S and _L as 8 and 20 which sounds loose to me, I used to run them at 4/12 on my AM4 rig.


----------



## Falkentyne

neurokirurgi said:


> And so we go full circle haha, this was me one week ago:
> 
> 
> 
> But anyways, I think I might still be able to tighten tRFC and tWRDEN, I loosened timings one by one until I managed to be Karhu stable (it was most likely tRDWR's at 15 that caused me to get errors after 1000+% since that was the last timing I loosened), but I'm not sure if I'll bother. Maybe once I get the itch to tweak something again.
> 
> Should I leave tWRRD's on auto in BIOS and instead control them with tWTR_S and tWTR_L? I thought it was the other way around? Asrock TC reports my tWTR_S and _L as 8 and 20 which sounds loose to me, I used to run them at 4/12 on my AM4 rig.


I leave the twrrd's on auto all the time. That's what they said to do on the jedec /overclocking discord.


----------



## dante`afk

whats the discord?


----------



## morph.

FINALLY got me some ddr5... Got this temporarily till I can source some gskill ram.. Can finally commence the teardown of my current system for my 12900k with an MZ690F.

Geil Polaris 5200 34-38-38-78


----------



## ldt

I am going to grab Gskill 
DDR5-5600MHz CL36-36-36-76 1.20V
32GB (2x16GB)









F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5S F5-5600U3636C16GA2-TZ5S - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z5 DDR5-5600 CL36-36-36-76 1.20V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 series DDR5 DRAM...




www.gskill.com





Some Motherboard QVL list it as Samsung ICs ( not samsung B die ) Any One here used it ? Does it good for overclock ?


----------



## jomama22

My new timings for now until I can try the new apex bios:

6400 28-37-37-28 1T SA: 1.4v | MC: 1.3v | Vdd/Vddq: 1.53 | TX: 1.45v. Thanks to sugar for the timing concept.










Stock CPU Aida:









@ 55x/50









Obligatory sottr. Done at 720p and 20% res mod for gpu bottleneck and because all the cool kids are doing it now. Changed to 1080p for clarity:


----------



## matique

SA 1.2 | TX/VDDQ 1.42 | MC 1.3

Nothing compared to those crazy hynix kits, but this what I could bring gskill samsung 6000c36 to. 1T is completely out of the question past 6200mhz. Tried my best for 6400c32 but it required far too much voltage, like 1.5v+.


----------



## asdkj1740

does anyone here has samsung ddr5 + gigabyte mobo?????????


----------



## skullbringer

Corsair Dominator can have S16B, too











so i've been trying 0703 bios on the apex with the samsung 6000 c32 profile and it's a lot more stable so far than on any of the 08xx bioses, but still throws one error about every hour...

0.9 sa, 1.2 mc, 1.435 vdd/q/tx

dram clk period 65 throws insta errors, 66 seems fine for 20 mins +, so I think the error is coming from some other setting, ideas?


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> Corsair Dominator can have S16B, too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so i've been trying 0703 bios on the apex with the samsung 6000 c32 profile and it's a lot more stable so far than on any of the 08xx bioses, but still throws one error about every hour...
> 
> 0.9 sa, 1.2 mc, 1.435 vdd/q/tx
> 
> dram clk period 65 throws insta errors, 66 seems fine for 20 mins +, so I think the error is coming from some other setting, ideas?


Try 1.05-1.1 SA?


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> Try 1.05-1.1 SA?


finished one test of tm5 [email protected], warm rebooted, threw 40 erros within 10 minutes


----------



## Nizzen

Anyone know IC of ddr5 :
"S" logo and " pt008" ?

Adata 4800 sticks


----------



## ldt

Nizzen said:


> Anyone know IC of ddr5 :
> "S" logo and " pt008" ?
> 
> Adata 4800 sticks


can you take a pics


----------



## sugi0lover

Finally the weekend is coming. Here is the beginning!


----------



## Mad1137

Eh I guess Asus z690 hero bad board ? Coz I can't Oc my g skill 5600 c36 ( apex will be better ? Someone explain me please ) I want throw my Z690 hero) or I am just bad .. don't know


----------



## Talon2016

Mad1137 said:


> Eh I guess Asus z690 hero bad board ? Coz I can't Oc my g skill 5600 c36 ( apex will be better ? Someone explain me please ) I want throw my Z690 hero) or I am just bad .. don't know


I am running the 6000 CL36 sticks on my Hero. Using stock XMP profile and upped the speed manually to 6200 and CL36 and is working without issue for me. I haven't messed with tuning the ram at all though outside of that.

I will add that BIOS 0803 is the only one that works for me. 0002 was giving me all kinds of issues so I rolled back.


----------



## Mad1137

Talon2016 said:


> I am running the 6000 CL36 sticks on my Hero. Using stock XMP profile and upped the speed manually to 6200 and CL36 and is working without issue for me. I haven't messed with tuning the ram at all though outside of that.
> 
> Hm , I got 5600 c36 , I need try to change to 6000 or 6200 ...


----------



## Talon2016

Mad1137 said:


> Hm , I got 5600 c36 , I need try to change to 6000 or 6200 ...


Just for your reference these are the voltages I need for 6200 CL36. Maybe provide you a starting point.

IVR = 1.25v
VDD/VDDQ = 1.3v
Memory Controller = 1.2v
System Agent = 1.25v/Auto


----------



## morph.

super silly question but where can I get the latest version of mem tweakit? Thanks ^_^


----------



## bscool

@morph. Z690 Bios and Tools


----------



## Mad1137

Guys help me Oc my. G skill 5600 c36


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> @morph. Z690 Bios and Tools


Thanks mate


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

morph. said:


> 終於給了我一些 ddr5 ......暫時得到這個，直到我可以找到一些 gskill ram.. 終於可以用 MZ690F 開始對我的 12900k 的當前系統進行拆卸。
> 
> 蓋爾北極星 5200 34-38-38-78
> View attachment 2536373
> 
> [/引用]


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

mattxx88 said:


> 誰知道這個套件可以安裝什麼芯片？
> 
> CMT32GX5M2X5600C36
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X5600C36
> 
> 
> 
> 似乎至少是海力士，也許是三星？
> [/引用]ver.4.32 SAMSUNG!!!


----------



## sugi0lover

finished one OC setting of 6500 CL28 1T.
Thanks to Asus Team and keep up the good work~

○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6500Mhz-28-37-37-26-280-1T (bclk 101.6 oc)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios *0053*)
○ Voltages (Bios) : VDD 1.570v / VDDQ 1.570v / MC 1.300v / SA 1.05v

[The actual ram voltage when running TM5 is 1.515v instead of 1.570v I input
Edit : Hwinfo64 ran after TM5 complete just to check values]










[a little bit oc of bclk 101.6 = a little better aida64 result]


----------



## sugi0lover

Here is my friend's oc with his Hynix 4800 CL40 to 6800 CL32 2T.
-VDD 1.59, VDDQ 1.55 , SA 1.35, MC 1.343









[Edit : AIDA64 added]


----------



## Jbgough123

Does anyone know if the new corsair dominator rbg platinum 5600 c36 is micron still? Or hynix/samsung? Some post on reddit said they were samsung/hynix on these new ones. Either way after almost 6 weeks of sitting on a 12700k and z690 hero collecting dust I managed to snag a set before notifications even went live yesterday so I will rock these until the summer when some real good stuff/g.skill is avaliable.


----------



## Benni231990

have we a good 24/7 OC gaming setting for G.Skill Trident Z 5 DDR5-6000 CL40-40-40-76 1.30V (F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5K)??
all settings i see here have 1,55 VDD and VDDQ voltage i this voltage ok for 24/7 or will the high voltage damage the ram for longer use?

and what voltage must i also change for ram OC? till now i only changed the VDD/VDDQ and SA

and works the original g skill heatsink? or is it crap like all the other heatsinks from corsait and kingston?


----------



## ThinbinJim

Mad1137 said:


> Eh I guess Asus z690 hero bad board ? Coz I can't Oc my g skill 5600 c36 ( apex will be better ? Someone explain me please ) I want throw my Z690 hero) or I am just bad .. don't know


Fyi I am having serious issues getting my 6000 c40 (samsung) kit to run at xmp on the 12900k/apex. I am currently running it at 5600 c40 with vdd/vddq at 1.35v to be borderline stable in memtest5. 
Using 1 stick at a time, I still couldn't get xmp to run unless I overvolt vdd/vddq to 1.36v+. 
Over 2 days, I tried 0702 and 0806 bios versions with vdd/vddq anywhere from 1.30v-1.40v and SA at 1.05/1.10/1.15/1.20/1.25 and IMC voltage at 1.10-1.34v and still couldn't get stability at 6000. Not sure if this indicates a bad IMC since I don't have a second cpu to test with.


----------



## Benni231990

@sugi0lover 

i have seen your youtube video (



) 

is this a solid 24/7 setting ? 

and what can you say about my last post with the gskill 6000 ?


----------



## sugi0lover

Benni231990 said:


> @sugi0lover
> 
> i have seen your youtube video (
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> is this a solid 24/7 setting ?
> 
> and what can you say about my last post with the gskill 6000 ?


 My current stable settings are 6500 cl28 1t and 6800 cl32 2t. I cancelled my order of gskill 6000 after reading lots of issues. Waiting for the release of 6000+ hynix sticks.


----------



## Benni231990

and what you think is better the 6500 setting or the 6800?

I only play games and not make benchmarks xD


----------



## sugi0lover

Benni231990 said:


> and what you think is better the 6500 setting or the 6800?
> 
> I only play games and not make benchmarks xD


6800 2t sub ram timing is not as tight as 6500 1t, so I prefer 6500 1t. my oc's goal is for better gaming not benchmark.


----------



## Benni231990

ok sounds very good but you VDD/VDDQ is over 1.5V is this for daily gaming ok or to much??

SK says 1,5 and not more for daily because of damage?


----------



## sugi0lover

Benni231990 said:


> ok sounds very good can you show your timmings and settings for 6500?


Go look at pg24 ^^


----------



## sugi0lover

Benni231990 said:


> ok sounds very good but you VDD/VDDQ is over 1.5V is this for daily gaming ok or to much??
> 
> SK says 1,5 and not more for daily because of damage?


I am not sure, but my ram sticks including pmic is cooled with water ram block. I am going to use it like that for a while, so I will report here if something happens.


----------



## Benni231990

ok thanks alot


----------



## rluker5

So I was hyped when I read the only DDR5 model I could get ahold of, Kingston value ram, was supposedly Hynix based. A couple days ago it finally showed up and I had a 5 minute window at home before I had to get to an appt and I tore open the package - and was AHGAST to see the swirly Micron m all over it . Ruined the rest of my evening, but first world problems.

But thanks to the help of Falkentyne's guidance laid out on this thread, and in the Modern CPUs require Modern Overclocking Solutions thread he started I was able to make some lemonade:








Still at 1.25v main ram voltage so it should get better.


----------



## sugi0lover

I wonder what module is inside of 7200Mhz kit and hope we can get it like it says from the end of 2021.
















ZADAK、最高7,200MHzまでラインナップするDDR5メモリ「SPARK」シリーズを準備中 - エルミタージュ秋葉原


ZADAKブランド（本社：台湾）は2021年12月10日（現地時間）、最高7,200MHzまでラインナップするDDR5メモリ「SPARK」シリーズを発表した。なおグローバル市場向けには2021年末より発売が開始される予定だ。




www.gdm.or.jp


----------



## Gargas

I wish to thank all contributors. (copy paster + trial and error here)
, and I think I got pretty much all I can get out of them.

RAM: CMK32GX5M2B5200C38 , 2x 16GB, 5200 Corsair vengeance cl38 kit (micron).
Stable with gaming/prime95 large fft, aida test and bios memtest, although they hit 60c in prime95, will improve cooling soon.

CPU: Stock, no OC yet, Batch #V136J516 (SP 101, P110 / E85)
MC Voltage: 1.25

Attached my settings below for anyone interested.


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

sugi0lover said:


> 終於到了周末。這是開始！
> View attachment 2536681
> 
> 
> [媒體=youtube]zN0uXb6JF1Q[/媒體]
> [/引用]
> 有沒有三星顆粒低延遲內存參數供參考？謝謝


----------



## Benni231990

has anybody desamble a Gskill DDR5?

when yes can anybody say how? and has the gskill like all the other the duct tape thermal pad? or has gskill a real thermal pad?

and can anybody say about the temperatur of the trident z ddr5?

my original Kingston fury got 58°C in stress test after a rgb heatsink from EZDIY-FAB i got 43°C so when the G Skill get same hot as my kingston in would change the heatsink or is it enough when i only change the thermal pads and use the original heatsink?


----------



## sugi0lover

I saw this Samsung DDR5.


----------



## neurokirurgi

*FinalWire Unveils AIDA64 v6.60
Alder Lake Optimizations and DDR5 Support*






FinalWire Unveils AIDA64 v6.60 | AIDA64


The latest AIDA64 update introduces optimized benchmarks for Intel Alder Lake and Raptor Lake processors, improvements for DDR5 memory modules and XMP 3.0 memory profiles, and supports the latest AMD and Intel CPU platforms as well as the new graphics and GPGPU computing technologies by both AMD...



www.aida64.com





Looks like there's less run to run variance now from what I quickly tested. Perhaps it's better scheduled now?


----------



## dante`afk

where do you get testmem 5 from? I tried to download from the tz.ru site but can't.


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

[QUOTE = "Jbgough123, post: 28909893, member: 101510"]
Ari Who千島新海盜船遊戲尺rbg白金5600 c36回歸海力/三星？reddit扒扒扒扒扒扒扒扒扒扒蔢視謫，哪一種方法，坐12700k日本z690英雄徵集的土6週後，我們構建方法中的當前天堂的通知是否可以。
[/引用]
5600 VER4.32 三星[/QUOTE]


asdkj1740 said:


> View attachment 2536311
> 
> 
> 買16g*1包前先看看。
> 這是 adata xpg lancer rgb 5200，均在第 43 週生產。
> [/引用]
> 請問威剛5200 16G*1有海力士顆粒嗎？我在哪裡可以看到 43 個週期的外包裝或條形碼？


----------



## bscool

dante`afk said:


> where do you get testmem 5 from? I tried to download from the tz.ru site but can't.


What about this? Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs

There are a few newer config file floating around I think but that thread has quite few. Unless you are looking for something different.


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend's result with Gskill 6000c36 samsung module.









[edit] high resolution pic replaced


----------



## dante`afk

any idea why my latency is like 9ns higher than other ppl posting here with similar settings?


----------



## marti69

sugi0lover said:


> Finally the weekend is coming. Here is the beginning!
> View attachment 2536681


do you have pic of the rams kit?


----------



## Nizzen

dante`afk said:


> any idea why my latency is like 9ns higher than other ppl posting here with similar settings?
> 
> View attachment 2537600


Format c:\


----------



## centvalny

Testing corsair hynix


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's result with Gskill 6000c36 samsung module.


He got the best result with the "0015 bios"?
I have the same g.skill kit incoming today or tomorrow.. Sadly, no Hynix sticks in sight


----------



## sugi0lover

marti69 said:


> do you have pic of the rams kit?


It's bare ram kits even without any ram cover.


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> He got the best result with the "0015 bios"?
> I have the same g.skill kit incoming today or tomorrow.. Sadly, no Hynix sticks in sight


Yes. Before 0015, the ram oc was terrible.


----------



## Muad_Dib69

When will the 015 be available for formula? I want at least to use my gskill [email protected]
plzplz


----------



## Mad1137

So , I start thinking , 5600 g skill (36 36 36 76 ) bad memory ... Or no ?


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> Yes. Before 0015, the ram oc was terrible


Thanks! Let's hope there is improvements to be made so Sammy ic's get more in line with Hynix 😅


----------



## satinghostrider

Not seen many with 6000C40 kits here. 
Wonder how much different they are clocking compared to 6000C36.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Yay..
I hope they don't suck


----------



## Mad1137

SuperMumrik said:


> Yay..
> I hope they don't suck
> View attachment 2537648


5600 or 6000?))


----------



## SuperMumrik

Mad1137 said:


> 5600 or 6000?


6000c36


----------



## Mad1137

SuperMumrik said:


> 6000c36
> View attachment 2537652


Eh lucky  I find only 5600 , and think it's a bad one .. coz I don't know )


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> Format c:\


who knows, W11 might be that yea lol


----------



## SuperMumrik

dante`afk said:


> any idea why my latency is like 9ns higher than other ppl posting here with similar settings?


Disable E-cores and 50x ring = sub 50NS

Nice results for sammy sticks. What vdimm and mc voltage are you running here?


----------



## Zyther

SuperMumrik said:


> 6000c36
> View attachment 2537652


what chips?


----------



## Benni231990

my gskill 6000 CL40 arrived today and i have samsung chips 

so now the 1 million question is samsung better than sk hynix for overclock?

@sugi0lover can i use you 6500 settings with my samsung chips?


----------



## Nizzen

Benni231990 said:


> my gskill 6000 CL40 arrived today and i have samsung chips
> 
> so now the 1 million question is samsung better than sk hynix for overclock?
> 
> @sugi0lover can i use you 6500 settings with my samsung chips?


Hynix is the best today. 
Maybe Samsung will be better with newer bios, we don't know.


----------



## matique

Mad1137 said:


> So , I start thinking , 5600 g skill (36 36 36 76 ) bad memory ... Or no ?


It is not as good as Hynix but it is not too bad, much better than micron anyway. 










5600c36 samsung gskill 2x16 kit, final tune for now. Thought I'd share here too.

1.42 TX/VDDQ | 1.22 SA | 1.3 MC | DRAMCLK 70


----------



## Benni231990

ill tryed 6400 with VDD/VDDQ 1.5-1,55volt no boot with stock timings

only 6200 with 1,43VDD/VDDQ | 1.3MC | 1.22 SA | Stock timings boots in windows

has anybody a good samsung setting what i can use?


----------



## Xeq54

Anyone knows what die do the new kingston fury 5600 / 6000 MHZ kits come with ? Mobo vendor ram compatibility lists do not have anything other than the 5200 mhz modules listed. 

Here is the spec sheet, but no mention of the chips used: 


https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF556C40BB-16.pdf



Probably just binned micron, but I have an opportunity to get them.


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

5600 6000 =Hynix


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

fury 5600/6000=Hynix


----------



## Benni231990

After a few short test i can run 6200 with 36-36-36-70

No second and third timings changed 

Samsung is an absolut dissapointment


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

Benni231990，帖子：28911841，會員：639607 said:


> 經過一些簡短的測試後，我可以使用 36-36-36-70 運行 6200
> 
> 第二次和第三次時間沒有改變
> 
> 三星是一個絕對的失望
> [/引用]
> 你的主板2DIMM/4DIMM？三星 2dimm 6000~7400 16G*2 OK~ 4DIMM 6000-6800 16G*2 OK~ 主要看你的CPU IMC風冷體質。


----------



## ChaosAD

Tried to push my micron fury today from 4800c38 stock to 5600c36 and while it was doing fine with no errors in Karhu, around 300% it just rebooted. Any ideas whats the issue?


----------



## neurokirurgi

ChaosAD said:


> Tried to push my micron fury today from 4800c38 stock to 5600c36 and while it was doing fine with no errors in Karhu, around 300% it just rebooted. Any ideas whats the issue?


Microns tend to get a bit wacky when pushed to the limit. They seem to have stability issues especially when exiting high load.

What are your voltages? (VDD, VDDQ, TX VDDQ, MC, SA)


----------



## Benni231990

@OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

i used 2x16GB and the temp in the stress test is about 54-55°C and IMC is 1.3volt


----------



## Falkentyne

ChaosAD said:


> Tried to push my micron fury today from 4800c38 stock to 5600c36 and while it was doing fine with no errors in Karhu, around 300% it just rebooted. Any ideas whats the issue?


Did you try @adna 's timings he posted? He actually got 5800 stable.
He posted some 5600 timings earlier also.









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Could someone with a Strix D4 export it as .txt? If think of it later. Trust me there is no magical setting I tried and it is normal stuff he has set. Just he has top bin IMC and ram etc. The profile has sa set to 1.4v and vddq 1.5v dram 1.55v. Also must have a fairly cool ambient air temp(ac...




www.overclock.net





Try those. Also for micron, try setting VDD switching frequency and VDDQ switching frequencies to 1 mhz. Do not change VPP at all.


----------



## blautemple

I‘m currently overclocking my Trident Z5 5600 C36 Kit and i‘m wondering if it is normal that the reported VDD/VPP voltage of one of the dimms is very low:


----------



## Benni231990

Holy **** you run yout 3rd timings with 0? And this ist stable?


----------



## ChaosAD

neurokirurgi said:


> Microns tend to get a bit wacky when pushed to the limit. They seem to have stability issues especially when exiting high load.
> 
> What are your voltages? (VDD, VDDQ, TX VDDQ, MC, SA)


SA 0.9v, MC 1.15v, VDD 1.35v, VDDQ 1.35v



Falkentyne said:


> Did you try @adna 's timings he posted? He actually got 5800 stable.
> He posted some 5600 timings earlier also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Could someone with a Strix D4 export it as .txt? If think of it later. Trust me there is no magical setting I tried and it is normal stuff he has set. Just he has top bin IMC and ram etc. The profile has sa set to 1.4v and vddq 1.5v dram 1.55v. Also must have a fairly cool ambient air temp(ac...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try those. Also for micron, try setting VDD switching frequency and VDDQ switching frequencies to 1 mhz. Do not change VPP at all.


I tried adna's 5800 profile but could not enter windows, so i tried 5600 36-40-40-46-2T with the voltages i mentioned above. I ll try the switching frequencies and report back. I was just surprised it just suddently rebooted.


----------



## Falkentyne

ChaosAD said:


> SA 0.9v, MC 1.15v, VDD 1.35v, VDDQ 1.35v
> 
> 
> 
> I tried adna's 5800 profile but could not enter windows, so i tried 5600 36-40-40-46-2T with the voltages i mentioned above. I ll try the switching frequencies and report back. I was just surprised it just suddently rebooted.


He is using 0015 bios for the maximus z690 extreme.
i THINK he also has "High voltage mode" enabled. but i'm not sure.

@adna do you have high voltage mode enabled, even at just 1.35/1.35v vdd/vddq ?


----------



## blautemple

Benni231990 said:


> Holy **** you run yout 3rd timings with 0? And this ist stable?


DD DR timings are only relevant if you are using 4 dimms or dual rank modules and since i‘m using 2 single rank modules I simply don‘t need them.


----------



## ChaosAD

Falkentyne said:


> He is using 0015 bios for the maximus z690 extreme.
> i THINK he also has "High voltage mode" enabled. but i'm not sure.
> 
> @adna do you have high voltage mode enabled, even at just 1.35/1.35v vdd/vddq ?


Yea he does, and i also enabled it. On another note i use bios 0053 on my Apex, maybe thats the issue!


----------



## Falkentyne

ChaosAD said:


> Yea he does, and i also enabled it. On another note i use bios 0053 on my Apex, maybe thats the issue!


I don't have an apex so i don't know.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone water ddr5. Do we need a specific one or current waterblock can do its job?


----------



## ChaosAD

Falkentyne said:


> I don't have an apex so i don't know.


Can any low voltage lead to sudden reboot while stress testing memory?


----------



## Benni231990

Has Anybody changed the original gskill thermal tape to a regular Silicon thermal pad with original heatsink? 

I think the gskill heatsink isnt to Bad but the heat Transfer is Bad whis this original thermal pad


----------



## Jbgough123

Anyone have an idea if the new corsair dom platininum 5600mhz c36 is still micron? Or did they go hynix/samsung??? Was holding out for some black gskill rgb but Snagged the new corsair dominator platinum 5600c36. Either way it will be rocked until next year when the real good kits are out and more available.


----------



## Benni231990

this is it VDD/VDDQ 1.43V | SA 1.22V | MC 1.3V



















6400 want boot even with 1.55 VDD/VDDQ

i have no idear if this timings are tight or not every help is welcome to get better timing or a setting with 6400 or more

in my opinion samsung are potato chips


----------



## Nizzen

Is it possible to run 6000-6200 1T on samsung?


----------



## Benni231990

no change ill tryed


----------



## sblantipodi

Is it easy to achieve 5600MHz C36 in 12900K with XMP or there is a probability that I will not be able to achieve that frequency with a 5600 C36 kit?


----------



## morph.

Benni231990 said:


> this is it VDD/VDDQ 1.43V | SA 1.22V | MC 1.3V
> 
> View attachment 2537729
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537730
> 
> 
> 6400 want boot even with 1.55 VDD/VDDQ
> 
> i have no idear if this timings are tight or not every help is welcome to get better timing or a setting with 6400 or more
> 
> in my opinion samsung are potato chips


You are gonna want to give it a bit of time till Shamino/safedisk optimise the bios's further.

And at the moment sk hynix seems to be the best chips for overclocking.


----------



## Benni231990

i hope soooooo much the further bios will be better for samsung chips

and yes sk hynix is king for overclocking


----------



## sugi0lover

A guy posted oc result at Korean PC forum~

[Edit] Ram Kit : oloy 6200c36


----------



## Benni231990

This could only be sk hynix?


----------



## sugi0lover

Benni231990 said:


> This could only be sk hynix?


When I get an answer for that, I will update the post.
For a while, this guy's build is very clean.


----------



## morph.

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's result with Gskill 6000c36 samsung module.
> View attachment 2537598
> 
> View attachment 2537599


Can you grab a larger screen grab and the voltages and whatnot from your friend, please!  Was also not possible with bios v803? I got the z5 600036 comings next week hopefully.


----------



## morph.

sugi0lover said:


> When I get an answer for that, I will update the post.
> For a while, this guy's build is very clean.
> View attachment 2537761


Gotta love the Velocity² have one myself


----------



## Mad1137

Guys , 1.42vdd and vddq , it's safe for daily usage?? For Samsung , or no ?


----------



## sugi0lover

morph. said:


> Can you grab a larger screen grab and the voltages and whatnot from your friend, please!  Was also not possible with bios v803? I got the z5 600036 comings next week hopefully.


Oh, sorry. Here it is. was not possible with v0803.
He is doing 6400 with his Samsung and I will share when it's done.

vdd 1.4v, vddq 1.35v , mc 1.2v


----------



## adna

ChaosAD said:


> SA 0.9v, MC 1.15v, VDD 1.35v, VDDQ 1.35v
> 
> 
> 
> I tried adna's 5800 profile but could not enter windows, so i tried 5600 36-40-40-46-2T with the voltages i mentioned above. I ll try the switching frequencies and report back. I was just surprised it just suddently rebooted.


my 1st 12700kf(sp69) it can run with sa=0.9v. and mc=1.1v. around 5400-5600Mhz. 
when i try 5800 i put sa=1.1v. and mc=1.25v. 
my new 12900kf(sp102) i use sa=0.9/mc=1.1 to 5800MHz. 
i think depended on your cpu


----------



## Mad1137

sugi0lover said:


> Oh, sorry. Here it is.
> He is doing 6400 with his Samsung and I will share when it's done.
> View attachment 2537803


What voltage is using ??


----------



## sugi0lover

Mad1137 said:


> What voltage is using ??


I added the voltage part, check it out~


----------



## Mad1137

sugi0lover said:


> I added the voltage part, check it out~


It's safe for daily usage ?) I want try oc my 5600c36 )


----------



## sugi0lover

Mad1137 said:


> It's safe for daily usage ?) I want try oc my 5600c36 )


I currently use vdd/vddq 1.570v for 6500 cl28 1t and have no problem.
But it does not guarantee that it will have no problem in the long term. I am gonna use for a while like that and I will report anything if I see any degrade.


----------



## Mad1137

sugi0lover said:


> I currently use vdd/vddq 1.570v for 6500 cl28 1t and have no problem.
> But it does not guarantee that it will have no problem in the long term. I am gonna use for a while like that and I will report anything if I see any degrade.


Wow , 1.57 .. but 1.4 I guess fine , but don't know


----------



## morph.

sugi0lover said:


> Oh, sorry. Here it is. was not possible with v0803.
> He is doing 6400 with his Samsung and I will share when it's done.
> 
> vdd 1.4v, vddq 1.35v , mc 1.2v
> View attachment 2537803


Thanks what sort of cooling is he doing?


----------



## sugi0lover

morph. said:


> Thanks what sort of cooling is he doing?


He is using 140mm fan for the ram kits, but he said the fan speed is slow, so he's gonna get better fan soon.


----------



## adna

Falkentyne said:


> He is using 0015 bios for the maximus z690 extreme.
> i THINK he also has "High voltage mode" enabled. but i'm not sure.
> 
> @adna do you have high voltage mode enabled, even at just 1.35/1.35v vdd/vddq ?


that right. i'm set enable high voltage mode. and set vdd | vddq = 1.35 | 1.35


----------



## Benni231990

i also used the 0015 bios on my strix and to the first time i can boot 6400 with samsung but i cant make it stable 

so when anybody has a setting let me know so i can try it


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> When I get an answer for that, I will update the post.
> For a while, this guy's build is very clean.
> View attachment 2537761


I'm getting that ram heatsink soon. It looks like it won't cover the memory modules. Could you ask him to show the side profile of the ram?


----------



## Carillo

it's going to be a looong week  Apex and some sticks just arrived  All samsung


----------



## matique

blautemple said:


> I‘m currently overclocking my Trident Z5 5600 C36 Kit and i‘m wondering if it is normal that the reported VDD/VPP voltage of one of the dimms is very low:
> View attachment 2537717


Happens to my sticks too sometimes, but it seems fine. Have not crashed once after reaching stability. 



Nizzen said:


> Is it possible to run 6000-6200 1T on samsung?


I'm running 6133c32 1T, you can check my history post  



sblantipodi said:


> Is it easy to achieve 5600MHz C36 in 12900K with XMP or there is a probability that I will not be able to achieve that frequency with a 5600 C36 kit?


On my z690i I have no issues, but other motherboards like apex might. Other company boards should be okay.


----------



## bscool

I hope that guy that made 10 posts about ddr5 shortage doesnt see your post @Carillo


----------



## Jbgough123

It would seem corsair also has 6200/6400c36 now in stock. These new 5600/6200 modules must be hynix or Samsung.

Edit: out of stock now.

they were in stock for almost 20 minutes. I wanted to pull the trigger on the 6200 or 6400c36 but decided not to since I already have 5600c36 otw From last week. Stock must be improving, almost every single day for over a week now corsair has had ddr5 stock of some sort on there website. I imagine by summer or this time next year 7000-8000+ kits will be available readily and at the same or cheaper price with tighter timings anyways.


----------



## dante`afk

where can you buy runmemtestpro 7.0 ?

also, how do I tell if my IMC is the limiting factor? I can boot 6400 but can't get it stable.


----------



## Benni231990

Me too i can Boot 6400 but Not stable on any Timing


----------



## bscool

@dante`afk 



Purchase MemTest Pro









旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com


----------



## criznit

Jbgough123 said:


> It would seem corsair also has 6200/6400c36 now in stock. These new 5600/6200 modules must be hynix or Samsung.
> 
> Edit: out of stock now.
> 
> they were in stock for almost 20 minutes. I wanted to pull the trigger on the 6200 or 6400c36 but decided not to since I already have 5600c36 otw From last week. Stock must be improving, almost every single day for over a week now corsair has had ddr5 stock of some sort on there website. I imagine by summer or this time next year 7000-8000+ kits will be available readily and at the same or cheaper price with tighter timings anyways.


I was fortunate enough to grab some ddr5 6000 from newegg last week and it is able to clock to 6200c36 with ease. I will put some more time in this weekend to see how high I can get it for daily use.


----------



## Carillo

First stick inserted. Easy boot 6600 cl40 Samsung


----------



## dante`afk

Any pointers why system would shut down for half a second and reboot during ram stress test? No bsod. MC?


----------



## stn1

dante`afk said:


> Any pointers why system would shut down for half a second and reboot during ram stress test? No bsod. MC?


Sa


----------



## asdkj1740

spot one crazy micron ram at 6200mhz

V-ColorTL51662840-E6PGAWK4800MHz6200MHz6200 MHzMicron A1.35vSINGLE






MPG Z690 CARBON WIFI


MPG series motherboards offer colorful customization with MSI Mystic Light RGB and Ambient Link, tuned for better performance by direct 18 phases VRM power, DDR5 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen5 solution, Premium Thermal Solution, Wi-Fi 6E, USB 3.




tw.msi.com


----------



## SoldierRBT

First time with Hynix DDR5
12900KF 5.1/4.2 - 4GHz ecores
6200 30-37-37-28 1T 1.42v VDD 1.30v VDDQ SA/TX VDDQ Auto 1.20v MC


----------



## illegalwater

Hi, I'm new to overclocking on Intel and DDR5. What is the MC voltage labeled as on MSI boards? Is it VDD2? Also do the CPU and DRAM VDDQ voltages need to be the same?

I've got a basic Crucial 4800 cl40 kit and I'm trying to speed it up a bit, I got it at 5200 cl38 right now.


----------



## neurokirurgi

illegalwater said:


> Hi, I'm new to overclocking on Intel and DDR5. What is the MC voltage labeled as on MSI boards? Is it VDD2? Also do the CPU and DRAM VDDQ voltages need to be the same?
> 
> I've got a basic Crucial 4800 cl40 kit and I'm trying to speed it up a bit, I got it at 5200 cl38 right now.


Dunno about MSI boards, can't help you there.

But the most important voltages for DDR5 are:

SA (system agent) = usually goes pretty low since current DDR5 chips can't really push the memory controller clocks high due to Gear 2. I've kept mine at 1.10v and I've seen people like cstkl run it even lower on even faster Hynix sticks
MC (memory controller) = needs to go up with frequency from what I've seen. I have mine at 1.25v. Higher clocking chips like Hynix will need more when you're pushing them.
VDD = On Micron, this should be a bit lower than VDDQ. I have mine at 1.35v
VDDQ = I have mine at 1.40v
TX VDDQ (transmission VDDQ) = typically set to MAX(VDD, VDDQ), so if you're running the voltages I mentioned above, you should set this to 1.40

I have an OEM Micron kit rated at 4800 CL40 and I'm running them at 5600 36-39-36-52. I have a screenshot in my post history if you want to see more timings.

edit: corrected tRAS


----------



## illegalwater

neurokirurgi said:


> Dunno about MSI boards, can't help you there.
> 
> But the most important voltages for DDR5 are:
> 
> SA (system agent) = usually goes pretty low since current DDR5 chips can't really push the memory controller clocks high due to Gear 2. I've kept mine at 1.10v and I've seen people like cstkl run it even lower on even faster Hynix sticks
> MC (memory controller) = needs to go up with frequency from what I've seen. I have mine at 1.25v. Higher clocking chips like Hynix will need more when you're pushing them.
> VDD = On Micron, this should be a bit lower than VDDQ. I have mine at 1.35v
> VDDQ = I have mine at 1.40v
> TX VDDQ (transmission VDDQ) = typically set to MAX(VDD, VDDQ), so if you're running the voltages I mentioned above, you should set this to 1.40
> 
> I have an OEM Micron kit rated at 4800 CL40 and I'm running them at 5600 36-39-39-36. I have a screenshot in my post history if you want to see more timings.


Thank you! That is very helpful, I’ll save that info. 

Sounds like you got that kit running pretty fast! I’ll try those timings and see how it goes.


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

sugi0lover said:


> 一個人在韓國PC論壇發了oc結果~
> 
> [編輯] Ram 套件 : oloy 6200c36
> View attachment 2537747
> 
> [/引用]請問你~圖中7000頻率圈的參數000000代表什麼？因為我覺得使用海力士粒子的軟件在那裡看起來像0000。這些參數是什麼？另外，TWTR_L和TWTR_S應該設置成多少TWL？又是多少華碩主板~謝謝


----------



## sugi0lover

not sure but my understanding is that DR DD timings don't do anything unless 4 dimms or dual rank modules, so I set them 0 and no issue with performance and stability.
I leave TWTR_L and _S auto.


----------



## Falkentyne

sugi0lover said:


> not sure but my understanding is that DR DD timings don't do anything unless 4 dimms or dual rank modules, so I set them 0 and no issue with performance and stability.
> I leave TWTR_L and _S auto.


How do you know if a module is "dual rank" or not? Especially 2x16 GB DDR5 sticks?


----------



## satinghostrider

Falkentyne said:


> How do you know if a module is "dual rank" or not? Especially 2x16 GB DDR5 sticks?


16gbx2 DDR5 modules are SR at least on my kit. Peek under your heatspreader. 1 side is basically tacky tape and the other side are nands with thermal tape.


----------



## sugi0lover

Falkentyne said:


> How do you know if a module is "dual rank" or not? Especially 2x16 GB DDR5 sticks?


I am not technical guy, so I just assumed because cpu-z doesn't show any dual rank. DDR4 DR shows it dual rank from CPU-Z.
Also, I got really bad performance when I put 0 to dr dd to DDR4 DR, but this DDR5 shows the proper performance even with 0 values.
I may be wrong. Any correction will be appreciated. I want the right info.


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

Falkentyne，郵遞：28912706，會員：54143 said:


> 你怎麼知道一個模塊是否是“雙列”？尤其是 2x16 GB DDR5 記憶棒？
> [/引用]
> DDR5 16G 應該是單面顆粒 32G 雙面顆粒


----------



## neurokirurgi

Falkentyne said:


> How do you know if a module is "dual rank" or not? Especially 2x16 GB DDR5 sticks?


I don't think there's any 8Gbit DDR5 ICs out there.

8 GB DIMMs are using 16 bank groups as opposed to 16GB DIMMs which use 32, effectively cutting the capacity in half. I guess the simplest way to think about this is that half of the chip is disabled, but I'm not qualified to say whether or not that's technically accurate. But what I can say with certainty is that less bank groups means less performance.

I guess memory vendors could, if they wanted to for some reason, configure "dual rank" DDR5 dimms with 16GB capacity, but there's no real performance benefit to be gained from that since that just means you just end up with 32 bank groups, same as with single rank DIMMs, but now you have a DIMM with twice the chips and so it'll be more costly to produce.






DDR5 Part Catalog







www.micron.com




Hynix doesn't list their DDR5 chips yet, but the stuff we've seen so far have all been 16GBit. Same with Samsung.


----------



## OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO

Falkentyne，郵遞：28912706，會員：54143 said:


> 你怎麼知道一個模塊是否是“雙列”？尤其是 2x16 GB DDR5 記憶棒？
> 
> 
> sugi0lover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 不確定，但我的理解是，除非 4 個調光器或雙列模塊，否則 DR DD 時序不會做任何事情，所以我將它們設置為 0，性能和穩定性沒有問題。
> 我離開 TWTR_L 和 _S 自動。
> [/引用]
> 明白了~謝謝。海力士的TWR應該是多少？6800-7000頻率
Click to expand...


----------



## sugi0lover

I see people overclocking 6800-7000 with twr 4~12.


----------



## sugi0lover

I keep getting question about the look of Hynix 4800 CL40.
It's bare stick without any ram cover.


----------



## dante`afk

not completely happy, I'll try to push 6400 tomorrow, but I doubt my IMC can do this. What I noticed is, I need low SA, anything above 1.0v will result in instability. I was able to boot it, but freeze shortly after stress testing. even with higher MC or SA voltage, or even vdd/vddq up to 1.6v. any tips?

12900KF (SP87), 53/42, 4600 ring. LLC7, 1.35v
6200 CL30-37-37-28 1T , gear2
vdd/vddq/vddqtx 1.43/1.43/1.45. SA 0.95, MC 1.3


----------



## Falkentyne

dante`afk said:


> not completely happy, I'll try to push 6400 tomorrow, but I doubt my IMC can do this. What I noticed is, I need low SA, anything above 1.0v will result in instability. I was able to boot it, but freeze shortly after stress testing. even with higher MC or SA voltage, or even vdd/vddq up to 1.6v. any tips?
> 
> 12900KF (SP87), 53/42, 4600 ring. LLC7, 1.35v
> 6200 CL30-37-37-28 1T , gear2
> vdd/vddq/vddqtx 1.45. SA 0.95, MC 1.3
> 
> View attachment 2537982



You messed up on your TWR setting. And set trrd_l to 6, not 4.
Freeze after stress testing? Try lowering tREFI to 65535 or raise VDD and VDDQ memory switching frequencies (Do not touch VPP).


----------



## dante`afk

twr is actually on auto, someone told me via pm to leave it there.
yea, either freeze or hard shut down for half a second and reboot.
too high vdd/vddq causes no boot, just loops debug code on the LED.


----------



## Falkentyne

dante`afk said:


> twr is actually on auto, someone told me via pm to leave it there.
> yea, either freeze or hard shut down for half a second and reboot.
> too high vdd/vddq causes no boot, just loops debug code on the LED.


Set vdd and vddq switching freq to 1-1.5 mhz, and lower trefi to 65535. And please fix your twr 
also trrd_l=4 only works with certain twr values. Or it costs you write/copy. Best leave trrd_l to 6.


----------



## 2500k_2

not my


----------



## Benni231990

have we here a samsung user with 6400 stable settings?


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> Set vdd and vddq switching freq to 1-1.5 mhz, and lower trefi to 65535. And please fix your twr
> also trrd_l=4 only works with certain twr values. Or it costs you write/copy. Best leave trrd_l to 6.


You need to clarify this in some way. What values for twr? This just seems arbitrary. Also, in my own testing, rrd_l = 4 performed better than 6, so please explain why 6 would be better.


----------



## Muad_Dib69

for people with asus formula, bios 811 and gskill 6000cas36 what are your best OC stable?


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2537995
> 
> not my


57ns, it better be not yours


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> You need to clarify this in some way. What values for twr? This just seems arbitrary. Also, in my own testing, rrd_l = 4 performed better than 6, so please explain why 6 would be better.


Setting trrd to 4 instead of 6 cost me 1k write.
and twr at 4 isn't possible. Dante was getting failure to train after changing any setting because of his incorrect subs.(freezing on 78, etc). I cant answer more. Sorry.


----------



## centvalny

sugi0lover said:


> I keep getting question about the look of Hynix 4800 CL40.
> It's bare stick without any ram cover.
> View attachment 2537972
> 
> View attachment 2537973


Same Hynix green pcb sticks as Dell 4800 2x16gb


----------



## neurokirurgi

centvalny said:


> Same Hynix green pcb sticks as Dell 4800 2x16gb
> View attachment 2538034


I immediately Googled the part number in hopes of finding them for cheap but nope, the motherfkers over at Dell want 250 euros for a single stick.


----------



## centvalny

[email protected] clock to 6600 with 1.3V vdd/vddq/mcv. CPU with AI settings 1.2V sa


----------



## Bilco

Just got a kit of XPG lancer 5200s in
model: AX5U5200C3816G-DCLABK
Any ideas what these are?

Edit: they are both micron as pictured in 
*asdkj1740's
post*


----------



## Baasha

Definitely seems like SK Hynix is dominating these DDR5 clocks/timings.

My kit is Samsung but have it at 6000mhz @ CL38 stable.


----------



## Carillo

This seems to be the best I could do with my Samsung kit

6200 Cl32 1T---- 1,45VDD/1,48VDDQ 1,20SA / 1,25MC

Any tips ? Hove to improve ?











Edit: Improved latency


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93 
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
2x16gb G.Skill 6600 28-37-37-28 1T 280 @1.65
SA|MC|txvddq = 0.9|1.55|1.55


----------



## dante`afk

bro, post your timings or just stop posting


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> bro, post your timings or just stop posting


lol. y the special treatment?


----------



## D-EJ915

Bilco said:


> Just got a kit of XPG lancer 5200s in
> model: AX5U5200C3816G-DCLABK
> Any ideas what these are?
> 
> Edit: they are both micron as pictured in
> *asdkj1740's
> post*


mine shows spectek but are worse than my dominators lol, not sure if I will just return or put on ebay lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> lol. y the special treatment?


To be honest, a lot of people are just posting their timings now, including safedisk and that one guy from China who never posts in English 
Besides OLOY sticks are in if you can actually find them, and now that 12900KS has been "leaked", maybe people will stop throwing money trying to get SP 100 12900K's. But it's almost 100% certain the 12900KS will come with a microcode with AVX512 disabled, unless you can still use a BIOS with the older microcode.

Can a CPU's post-launch microcode override the BIOS installed microcode? Do CPU's have an enforced microcode version built into the chip? I'm assuming not since otherwise "no ucode" modded bioses would not be a thing.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> To be honest, a lot of people are just posting their timings now, including safedisk and that one guy from China who never posts in English
> Besides OLOY sticks are in if you can actually find them, and now that 12900KS has been "leaked", maybe people will stop throwing money trying to get SP 100 12900K's. But it's almost 100% certain the 12900KS will come with a microcode with AVX512 disabled, unless you can still use a BIOS with the older microcode.
> 
> Can a CPU's post-launch microcode override the BIOS installed microcode? Do CPU's have an enforced microcode version built into the chip? I'm assuming not since otherwise "no ucode" modded bioses would not be a thing.


ic. since others are posting ram timings. whats so special about mine that warrants special treatment


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> ic. since others are posting ram timings. whats so special about mine that warrants special treatment


Going with the flow I guess. Fitting in with everyone else (following the trend) avoids drawing unwanted attention. A lot like driving with the flow of traffic on the freeway instead of speeding


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900KF 5.1/4.2 - 4GHz ecores
6400 30-37-37-28 1T on air MC/SA: 1.30v VDD/TX VDDQ: 1.45v VDDQ: 1.35v


----------



## rluker5

Falkentyne said:


> To be honest, a lot of people are just posting their timings now, including safedisk and that one guy from China who never posts in English
> Besides OLOY sticks are in if you can actually find them, and now that 12900KS has been "leaked", maybe people will stop throwing money trying to get SP 100 12900K's. But it's almost 100% certain the 12900KS will come with a microcode with AVX512 disabled, unless you can still use a BIOS with the older microcode.
> 
> Can a CPU's post-launch microcode override the BIOS installed microcode? Do CPU's have an enforced microcode version built into the chip? I'm assuming not since otherwise "no ucode" modded bioses would not be a thing.


QS and ES stay different. So did my 5950hq compared to my 5775c (until the adapter stopped working, then it was dead). Not to mention different SKUs of the same silicon. I'm guessing Intel will have a way to do what they want.

Edit: And I see a lot of great tunings of Hynix ram on here and I just wanted to say:








I'm totally jealous  You've got the good stuff.


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> Going with the flow I guess. Fitting in with everyone else (following the trend) avoids drawing unwanted attention. A lot like driving with the flow of traffic on the freeway instead of speeding


It's more because of his attitude and has nothing to do with what other people do. Acting like a know it all, berating people, acting childish, gatekeeping, etc. It's literally the opposite of what this forum is for. 

I'm totally fine with people not posting timings, grated, it's odd to do so without it just coming off like they are using a thread as a personal benchmark repository. But when that person wants to say how they have to use skews, algos, w.e., and then just not try to help others who may like to know more, it comes off as arrogant and narcissistic.

Then, when that same person does post benchmarks but lies and/or misrepresents what they are, it's even more egregious and comes off as slimey.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Going with the flow I guess. Fitting in with everyone else (following the trend) avoids drawing unwanted attention. A lot like driving with the flow of traffic on the freeway instead of speeding


if it hurts that much just ignore me. it pains me those with retail rams vs my ram situation.. so guess i should mass ignore also by that line if reasoning.
😂😂😂


----------



## sblantipodi

Guys I have a 4x16GB Dominator 5600MHz C36 kit with Samsung chips.

When using 4 banks it seems that I can't go past 4800MHz.
Is this possible? Can I try something to achieve 5200MHz at least?


----------



## dante`afk

spot on @jomama22 


interesting how much difference the bios does, I tried to run @SoldierRBT 's and @Esenel with 0021, no go. with 0811 and adjusted Dram clk period value it runs through stresst test 1 hour no problems.

thanks guys


----------



## jomama22

dante`afk said:


> spot on @jomama22
> 
> 
> interesting how much difference the bios does, I tried to run @SoldierRBT 's and @Esenel with 0021, no go. with 0811 and adjusted Dram clk period value it runs through stresst test 1 hour no problems.
> 
> thanks guys


What dram clk did you end up with? 66 was best for me at 6400


----------



## asdkj1740

D-EJ915 said:


> mine shows spectek but are worse than my dominators lol, not sure if I will just return or put on ebay lol.


spectek xpg lancer? would you minding taking a photo at the bottom of the die and upload it here?


----------



## shamino1978

dante`afk said:


> spot on @jomama22
> 
> 
> interesting how much difference the bios does, I tried to run @SoldierRBT 's and @Esenel with 0021, no go. with 0811 and adjusted Dram clk period value it runs through stresst test 1 hour no problems.
> 
> thanks guys


youre saying 0811 is better than 0021 for you? 6400 samsung? or?


----------



## Spiriva

1.350v

(Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5 5200Mhz 32GB - CL38 (38-38-38-84) )


----------



## Falkentyne

Spiriva said:


> 1.350v
> 
> (Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5 5200Mhz 32GB - CL38 (38-38-38-84) )


You should be able to get those numbers slightly better.

Micron also (Gskill 5200 CL40)


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing DDR5 6600 c30 1t posted in Korean PC forum


----------



## Spiriva

Falkentyne said:


> You should be able to get those numbers slightly better.
> 
> Micron also (Gskill 5200 CL40)


Ill give it a go with the same settings as you, thank you 
Do you run at 1.350v too?


----------



## Falkentyne

Spiriva said:


> Ill give it a go with the same settings as you, thank you
> Do you run at 1.350v too?


1.05v vccsa, 1.35v vdd, 1.40v vddq, vdd+vddq switching freq 1 mhz (don't touch vpp).


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Is this a good DDR5 kit? My friend is offering me his Newegg bundle with a Strix mobo.









F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6000U3636E16GA2-TZ5RK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6000 CL36-36-36-76 1.30V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series...




www.gskill.com


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> Is it possible to run 6000-6200 1T on samsung?


I saw this in AHOC Discord









Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## dante`afk

jomama22 said:


> What dram clk did you end up with? 66 was best for me at 6400


ended up at 69 to get it stable.



shamino1978 said:


> youre saying 0811 is better than 0021 for you? 6400 samsung? or?


correct, I wasn't able to get it fully stable until I rolled back to "older" bios'es


----------



## jomama22

dante`afk said:


> ended up at 69 to get it stable.
> 
> 
> correct, I wasn't able to get it fully stable until I rolled back to "older" bios'es


You have hynix IC's though yeah?


----------



## dante`afk

yep

i can't get CL to 28 though, no matter what. 30 it is for me. but doesnt seem to make any big difference


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Is it possible to run 6000-6200 1T on samsung?


few ppl have it at 6200 and is experimenting with 6400 atm


----------



## biigshow666

Falkentyne said:


> 1.05v vccsa, 1.35v vdd, 1.40v vddq, vdd+vddq switching freq 1 mhz (don't touch vpp).


I have the same settings but get an error on testmem5 ~8min in. Corsair vengeance 5200 c38... Even tried 1.25 sa no difference. What should I be adjusting next to get this locked in?


----------



## Falkentyne

biigshow666 said:


> I have the same settings but get an error on testmem5 ~8min in. Corsair vengeance 5200 c38... Even tried 1.25 sa no difference. What should I be adjusting next to get this locked in?


Board and bios version?


----------



## biigshow666

Falkentyne said:


> Board and bios version?


strix f, 0811


----------



## AvengedRobix

Corsair still garbage?


----------



## Nizzen

AvengedRobix said:


> Corsair still garbage?
> 
> View attachment 2538195


Corsair beast 6000 is pretty good. It has Hynix


----------



## dante`afk

lowering SA did the trick

12900KF @ stock
teamgroup 6400 black sk hynix

txvddq 1.450
vdd 1.450
vddq 1.35
MC 1.24
SA 1.25
clk period 66


----------



## matique

Slowly giving up on 6400c32 on Samsung sticks 😂 

Keep getting error 1 on TM5 absolut. 6200c32 runs like a dream though.


----------



## Muad_Dib69

dante`afk said:


> 12900KF @ stock
> txvddq 1.445
> vdd 1.455
> vddq 1.35
> MC 1.24
> SA 1.25
> clk period 66


From which memory?


----------



## adna

biigshow666 said:


> strix f, 0811


@0811 my set. quick test for you
[email protected]
adata-4800[micron]@5600-34-39-39-45
sa | vdd | vddq | txvddq | mc = 0.9v | 1.25v | 1.25v | 1.1v | 1.1v
high voltage mode = auto | pmic = auto
ps. you can test more stability with you self


----------



## dante`afk

Muad_Dib69 said:


> From which memory?


sorry, added to top post


----------



## biigshow666

adna said:


> @0811 my set. quick test for you
> [email protected]
> adata-4800[micron]@5600-34-39-39-45
> sa | vdd | vddq | txvddq | mc = 0.9v | 1.25v | 1.25v | 1.1v | 1.1v
> high voltage mode = auto | pmic = auto
> ps. you can test more stability with you self
> View attachment 2538210


It won't even post!


----------



## Carillo

matique said:


> Slowly giving up on 6400c32 on Samsung sticks 😂
> 
> Keep getting error 1 on TM5 absolut. 6200c32 runs like a dream though.


hahaha, my exact same problem! ONE error! Been struggling all day, almost threw the g.skill sticks out the window!! cant WAIT to get rid of this garbage! 🤣


----------



## biigshow666

Falkentyne said:


> Board and bios version?


I was able to get 22minites on testmem5 extreme profile now with the same settings. Is this considered stable enough?


----------



## adna

biigshow666 said:


> It won't even post!


oh! if not.
you can try Falkentyne's profile. he post @ #625 
i think it's base of micron stick @ 5600MHz.
and you maybe relax tRFC to auto. it may help
ps. i think voltage and timings may bit difference
depended on your cpu and ram


----------



## biigshow666

adna said:


> oh! if not.
> you can try Falkentyne's profile. he post @ #625
> i think it's base of micron stick @ 5600MHz.
> and you maybe relax tRFC to auto. it may help
> ps. i think voltage and timings may bit difference
> depended on your cpu and ram


Thanks, Falk's profile works for 22mins testmem5 extreme but your latency is nice. P= 55*6, 52*8, [email protected], 43 ring so nothing extreme there..


----------



## adna

biigshow666 said:


> Thanks, Falk's profile works for 22mins testmem5 extreme but your latency is nice. P= 55*6, 52*8, [email protected], 43 ring so nothing extreme there..


when you test tm5 and see error. how about ram temp.


----------



## biigshow666

adna said:


> when you test tm5 and see error. how about ram temp.


looks to be 68c


----------



## adna

i think, you need to make it cooled


----------



## Falkentyne

biigshow666 said:


> looks to be 68c
> 
> View attachment 2538242


Your problem is your memory temps! You're probably completely stable and making yourself unstable by running stress tests under uncoolable conditions.
I stop testing memory once it exceeds 50C. Because I know for a fact that no game or application will exceed 50C, ever.
If I'm using Prime95 30.7 large FFT AVX disabled to test for memory (random threads crash when CPU is rock stable=memory problems) once it reaches 50C I stop the test.
I also have an Alseye dual fan RAM cooler over my memory. You need to actively cool your memory and test it under realistic temps. The most stable OC'd system in the world will error out if you let it reach 85C on memory temps (highest tjunction) for example! I've seen stock XMP error out at temps like that!
Use prime95 30.7 beta 9, large FFT AVX Disabled (I don't know about the 30.8 version) or OCCT memory test (requires registration). Let it run until temps reach 50C then stop the test and let your memory cool down and start it again. If you can pass 30 minutes of that consider yourself stable and save some time and actually use your computer.


----------



## neurokirurgi

Yup, either loosen tRFC, tREFI and tWR (some of the more temp sensitive timings), or get some airflow over the sticks. I have the same Alseye RAM cooler Falkentyne mentioned, and it can drop RAM temps up to 15-20C. I wouldn't be stable at my current RAM settings without it.


----------



## biigshow666

Falkentyne said:


> Your problem is your memory temps! You're probably completely stable and making yourself unstable by running stress tests under uncoolable conditions.
> I stop testing memory once it exceeds 50C. Because I know for a fact that no game or application will exceed 50C, ever.
> If I'm using Prime95 30.7 large FFT AVX disabled to test for memory (random threads crash when CPU is rock stable=memory problems) once it reaches 50C I stop the test.
> I also have an Alseye dual fan RAM cooler over my memory. You need to actively cool your memory and test it under realistic temps. The most stable OC'd system in the world will error out if you let it reach 85C on memory temps (highest tjunction) for example! I've seen stock XMP error out at temps like that!
> Use prime95 30.7 beta 9, large FFT AVX Disabled (I don't know about the 30.8 version) or OCCT memory test (requires registration). Let it run until temps reach 50C then stop the test and let your memory cool down and start it again. If you can pass 30 minutes of that consider yourself stable and save some time and actually use your computer.


Yeah this new PC has spent more time in the bios... My f2 key is now more worn out than my WASD... I'll stick with this for now as my daily usage is fine. I'll have a look at the ram cooler. Thank you everyone for the assistance


----------



## SuperMumrik

Falkentyne said:


> Your problem is your memory temps! You're probably completely stable and making yourself unstable by running stress tests under uncoolable conditions.
> I stop testing memory once it exceeds 50C. Because I know for a fact that no game or application will exceed 50C, ever.


Exactly what is this SPD hub temp anyway? This seems to be the best I can HCI stabilize, but this SPD hub hoovers above 60C(still error free) with a 120mm fan directly above the sticks after a few hours.
Anything faster or tighter throws errors, but not sure if it's worth adding water cooling to those sammy sticks
(waiting for some t-force sticks, but...).


----------



## neurokirurgi

biigshow666 said:


> Yeah this new PC has spent more time in the bios... My f2 key is now more worn out than my WASD... I'll stick with this for now as my daily usage is fine. I'll have a look at the ram cooler. Thank you everyone for the assistance


Just make a shortcut like this, run at as admin and there's no more Delete or F2 key mashing involved.


----------



## sblantipodi

guys I have an Asus Extreme that have two System Agent entries.

to chage the SA. should I change


> "System Agent PLL Voltage" or "CPU System Agent Voltage"?


----------



## Baasha

Asus website was updated - QVL list now shows two Samsung kits at the top @ 6800mhz - F5-6800U4040G16GX2-TZ5S 

Are these kits available anywhere (in the US)?

I got my 5600 CL36 kit stable at 6000mhz CL38. would like to get 6200mhz and it passes Aida64 with VDD/VDDQ at 1.44V and SA at 1.25V but Karhu and MemTest5 w/ anta777 crashes/errors out quickly.

Can someone help me get 6200mhz stable?


----------



## D-EJ915

asdkj1740 said:


> spectek xpg lancer? would you minding taking a photo at the bottom of the die and upload it here?





http://imgur.com/ceMK4Yc


from CPU-Z 1.97.0
Module Manuf. A-Data Technology
DRAM Manuf. SpecTek Incorporated
Part Number X5U5200C3816G-B
Week/Year 47 / 21


----------



## Falkentyne

sblantipodi said:


> guys I have an Asus Extreme that have two System Agent entries.
> 
> to chage the SA. should I change


The only PLL for system agent is the PLL Trim SA voltage (default 0.900v). don't change this. Most people who messed with PLL Trim for system agent had nothing but VERY bad results for it.
The regular system agent is the one you should change--the one in the normal menu not in tweaker's paradise.

A few people found very minor stability P core improvement by changing Core PLL Trim to 1.002v (or both core+ring pll trim to 1.002v), from the stock default of 0.90v. But this doesn't help ring+cache OC at all like "PLL Termination" does.

PLL Termination Voltage (Tweaker's paradise) which IS NOT THE SAME THING as the pll "trim" settings has been known to help stabilize E core + Cache clocks slightly (Kingfaris10 found this out on his DDR4 Z690 board, it helped stabilize a higher cache ratio), and it helped me avoid BSOD's in stockfish at x41 ring x38 cache (both at 5.1 ghz and 5.2 ghz), but on DDR5 boards, this is linked to CPU Standby voltage, so both must be changed at the same time (tweaker's paradise version _AND_ Boot voltage in Digi+VRM), otherwise you will have "00" after a system reset. I'm using 1.20v PLL Termination Voltage + CPU Standby voltage. I have no idea if it helps with E cores disabled though.


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend's OC result with MSI Unify X : DDR5 6933 C30 2T

Voltages : CPU VDD2(Asus's MC) 1.25v, SA 1.2v, VDD 1.6v, VDDQ 1.57v
RAM : Teamgroup (SK Hynix) 6400 CL40 1.35v


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing friend's oc result with Gskill 6000 c36 ram kit~


----------



## dimar

Asus ROG Strix Z690-E BIOS 0803
i9-12900K
Team T-Force Delta RGB 2x16GB DDR5 6400 FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01
Cooler Master HAF XB EVO case with a 140mm fan right in front of the RAM.
RAM is set to XMP defaults 6400 CL40. The system was unstable, so I run MemTest x86 v9.3 and saw lots of errors.
Running at 6200 it found fewer errors.
Running at 6133 several times no errors, and the system is stable while gaming and running 3DMark.
Did the same with individual sticks and got the same results.
Any tips would be appreciated. I'm kind of used to automatic settings and not so good with manual adjustments. I did try to increase the RAM voltage one step higher with no success.


----------



## adna

dimar said:


> Asus ROG Strix Z690-E BIOS 0803
> i9-12900K
> Team T-Force Delta RGB 2x16GB DDR5 6400 FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01
> Cooler Master HAF XB EVO case with a 140mm fan right in front of the RAM.
> RAM is set to XMP defaults 6400 CL40. The system was unstable, so I run MemTest x86 v9.3 and saw lots of errors.
> Running at 6200 it found fewer errors.
> Running at 6133 several times no errors, and the system is stable while gaming and running 3DMark.
> Did the same with individual sticks and got the same results.
> Any tips would be appreciated. I'm kind of used to automatic settings and not so good with manual adjustments. I did try to increase the RAM voltage one step higher with no success.


you may try 0811
in this thread 








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Okay so it ended up being the motherboard! Both ram sticks now work and i can also use XMP. Now do i keep the RMA Ram set that i payed for in advance and go 64GB lol i mean i just use it for gaming. If it's Samsung or Hynx RAM, you can make a killing scalping it on ebay and just keep 32 GB...




www.overclock.net


----------



## leonman44

Hey guys ! Just ordered this ones : F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. 

Really wanted the cl36 variant but well... its extremely hard to find a good kit in stock anyway.

I am mostly gaming with my system so what should be better ?

1) increasing the mhz , lets say if it can hit 6400mhz , then see if i can shave the timings a bit?

or

2) reducing the timings as much as i can + 1t ?


----------



## Nizzen

leonman44 said:


> Hey guys ! Just ordered this ones : F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RK-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> Really wanted the cl36 variant but well... its extremely hard to find a good kit in stock anyway.
> 
> I am mostly gaming with my system so what should be better ?
> 
> 1) increasing the mhz , lets say if it can hit 6400mhz , then see if i can shave the timings a bit?
> 
> or
> 
> 2) reducing the timings as much as i can + 1t ?


Higher than 6200 on samsung is hard! For gaming, aim for 6000 ~c30 max tweaked timings


----------



## leonman44

Nizzen said:


> Higher than 6200 on samsung is hard! For gaming, aim for 6000 ~c30 max tweaked timings


Hmmmm lets see if i can hit such low timings , isnt the cl40 sticks all these kits that fails to do a cl36 at the given voltage?

Also from what i see from my motherboards memory supports page ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
It seems to be a sk hynix kit or did they change something?

also its very strange that the very same kit i ordered F5-6000U4040A16GX2-TZ5RK in the support page it says it can do 6400mhz with 1,3v and 6000mhz with 1,25v but in the official site its listed as a 1,3v 6000mhz kit.


----------



## Nizzen

leonman44 said:


> Hmmmm lets see if i can hit such low timings , isnt the cl40 sticks all these kits that fails to do a cl36 at the given voltage?
> 
> Also from what i see from my motherboards memory supports page ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> It seems to be a sk hynix kit or did they change something?
> 
> also its very strange that the very same kit i ordered F5-6000U4040A16GX2-TZ5RK in the support page it says it can do 6400mhz with 1,3v and 6000mhz with 1,25v but in the official site its listed as a 1,3v 6000mhz kit.


I'm using g.skill 6000c40 kit. 6000 c32-35-35-52-1t is easy atleast on Apex.
Strugling above 6200mhz


----------



## leonman44

Nizzen said:


> I'm using g.skill 6000c40 kit. 6000 c32-35-35-52-1t is easy atleast on Apex.
> Strugling above 6200mhz


Apex is a great board! I would be pleased too if i could get such timings , what voltage are you using?


----------



## sblantipodi

edit


----------



## sblantipodi

Falkentyne said:


> The only PLL for system agent is the PLL Trim SA voltage (default 0.900v). don't change this. Most people who messed with PLL Trim for system agent had nothing but VERY bad results for it.
> The regular system agent is the one you should change--the one in the normal menu not in tweaker's paradise.
> 
> A few people found very minor stability P core improvement by changing Core PLL Trim to 1.002v (or both core+ring pll trim to 1.002v), from the stock default of 0.90v. But this doesn't help ring+cache OC at all like "PLL Termination" does.
> 
> PLL Termination Voltage (Tweaker's paradise) which IS NOT THE SAME THING as the pll "trim" settings has been known to help stabilize E core + Cache clocks slightly (Kingfaris10 found this out on his DDR4 Z690 board, it helped stabilize a higher cache ratio), and it helped me avoid BSOD's in stockfish at x41 ring x38 cache (both at 5.1 ghz and 5.2 ghz), but on DDR5 boards, this is linked to CPU Standby voltage, so both must be changed at the same time (tweaker's paradise version _AND_ Boot voltage in Digi+VRM), otherwise you will have "00" after a system reset. I'm using 1.20v PLL Termination Voltage + CPU Standby voltage. I have no idea if it helps with E cores disabled though.


Thanks for the answer man. I am trying to get 4800MHz at least on 4 banks of crappy 4x16GB Dominator 5600MHz C36.
It seems that I was able to pass 2 hours of memtest86 and then on reboot I get a BSOD.
I have stock SA, should I put SA to 1.25V to try to avoid that BSOD?


----------



## Carillo

Slapped some Ek Monarch's on my Sammy sticks, and it helped

6400 cl30 


Voltages : CPU MC 1.30v, SA 1.20v, VDD 1.53v, VDDQ 1.55v
RAM : G.skill (Samsung) F5-6000U4040E16G


----------



## adna

many time i try 5800-6000 with micron chip. 5800 seem very stable around 1.35v. 
but, sometime. when ram temp higher than 42c. in test tm5 have some errors (@this step. temp less 40c.'s pretty)
i think, if i want rock stable. i need cooled ram. fan airflow and low voltage is help

Test [email protected] with 1.25v.
if can tightening timings. sometime, it'll less 60ns. (latency seem 5800 i think same scale)
before now tRAS=45/tRRD_sg=4 is fine for me
but,last night i try tm5. in the near end of test. it've 4 errors and end.
i try relax timings and test again. look good.

[email protected]
[email protected]-34-39-39-46
sa | vdd | vddq | txvddq | mc = 0.9v | 1.25v | 1.25v | 1.1v | 1.1v
high voltage mode = auto | pmic = auto


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Slapped some Ek Monarch's on my Sammy sticks, and it helped
> 
> 6400 cl30
> 
> 
> Voltages : CPU MC 1.30v, SA 1.20v, VDD 1.53v, VDDQ 1.55v
> RAM : G.skill (Samsung) F5-6000U4040E16G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2538341


Nice!
Looks like watercooling unlocked Samsung a bit


----------



## sblantipodi

guys please help me getting my Corsair 5600MHz C36 running at 4.8GHz at least or I will throw my entire PC out of the window.
I spend 1K on RAM for DDR5 and they go way worse than DDR4memory since I can't evenget crappy 4.8GHzC40 stable.

I have 4x16GB Samsung 5600MHz C36 dominator.

How can I get a crappy 4.8GHz C40 stable on 4 sticks?


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> guys please help me getting my Corsair 5600MHz C36 running at 4.8GHz at least or I will throw my entire PC out of the window.
> I spend 1K on RAM for DDR5 and they go way worse than DDR4memory since I can't evenget crappy 4.8GHzC40 stable.
> 
> I have 4x16GB Samsung 5600MHz C36 dominator.
> 
> How can I get a crappy 4.8GHz C40 stable on 4 sticks?


Use 2x sticks 😂

What MB do you use?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Nice!
> Looks like watercooling unlocked Samsung a bit


as i told the guys on discord
wc + 1.55v ftw or just go home xmp.


----------



## sblantipodi

Nizzen said:


> Use 2x sticks 😂
> 
> What MB do you use?


I need 64GB and I have bought 4 sticks  
I have an Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> I need 64GB and I have bought 4 sticks
> I have an Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme


Have you tested to load the 4x16GB profiles presets?


----------



## jeiselramos

sblantipodi said:


> I need 64GB and I have bought 4 sticks
> I have an Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme


Try 4400C36

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sblantipodi

Nizzen said:


> Have you tested to load the 4x16GB profiles presets?


there is no preset for 4x16GB.
COrsair doesn't sell 4x16GB dominator.
I'm using two kits of 2x16GB for a total of 4x16GB.

but is it safe to run "CPU System Agent Voltage" to 1.25V?
My Asus mobo shows values greater than 1.2V with a warning.
same for the Memory Controller voltage, everything over 1.2 in in yellow (means warning)


----------



## Carillo

sblantipodi said:


> there is no preset for 4x16GB.
> COrsair doesn't sell 4x16GB dominator.
> I'm using two kits of 2x16GB for a total of 4x16GB.
> 
> but is it safe to run "CPU System Agent Voltage" to 1.25V?
> My Asus mobo shows values greater than 1.2V with a warning.
> same for the Memory Controller voltage, everything over 1.2 in in yellow (means warning)


M

I ran 1,65SA dayli on 8086k, 9900ks and 10900k and 1,7++for benchmarking. those cpu’s is still alive  so i doubt 1,25-1,35 is dangerous….

My tip; 

1: clear cmos
2: set 4800 cl40.40.40.76 
3: SA auto 
4: 1.35 Vvdc/vvdq
5: 1,25 MC 

Boot. Dont touch anything Else


----------



## AvengedRobix

Nizzen said:


> Corsair beast 6000 is pretty good. It has Hynix


My vengeance 5600c36 was Samsung


----------



## asdkj1740

AvengedRobix said:


> My vengeance 5600c36 was Samsung


any tips for the ver?


----------



## dimar

adna said:


> you may try 0811
> in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Okay so it ended up being the motherboard! Both ram sticks now work and i can also use XMP. Now do i keep the RMA Ram set that i payed for in advance and go 64GB lol i mean i just use it for gaming. If it's Samsung or Hynx RAM, you can make a killing scalping it on ebay and just keep 32 GB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


6400 still failed, but this time no errors at 6200. (4 pass MemTest 9.3 Pro).
Hopefully newer BIOS will get to 6400, otherwise I might do RMA later on.


----------



## sblantipodi

Carillo said:


> M
> 
> I ran 1,65SA dayli on 8086k, 9900ks and 10900k and 1,7++for benchmarking. those cpu’s is still alive  so i doubt 1,25-1,35 is dangerous….
> 
> My tip;
> 
> 1: clear cmos
> 2: set 4800 cl40.40.40.76
> 3: SA auto
> 4: 1.35 Vvdc/vvdq
> 5: 1,25 MC
> 
> Boot. Dont touch anything Else


thank you so much, I really appreciate all the help guys.
I'm really grateful 

in this way I finished 30 minutes of cinebench. let's see if I can do another 30 minutes. 
what is the max temp for DDR5? at 1.35 after 1 hour of cinebench I get 48°C on the hottest stick


----------



## Carillo

sblantipodi said:


> thank you so much, I really appreciate all the help guys.
> I'm really grateful
> 
> in this way I finished 30 minutes of cinebench. let's see if I can do another 30 minutes.
> what is the max temp for DDR5? at 1.35 after 1 hour of cinebench I get 48°C on the hottest stick


48C Is fine, but the lower you can go temp wise, the higher speed/lower latency you can run. my sticks was running 55-60C with one ML PRO fan pointed directly at the sticks, and now 25c average running cold NORWEGIAN water


----------



## Carillo

Anyone tried this kit ?On its way in the mail.. incoming next week


----------



## Zyther

Is there any top end kits that will always be Hynix or is it a lottery if you get Hynix or Samsung?
Currently running on super cheap micron ram, not in a huge rush to get new memory, but would like to upgrade to get the most out of ram for gaming latency. 

Looking at maybe getting:
Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 6400MHz CL40 DDR5
Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 6200MHz CL38 DDR5
G.Skill Trident Z5 32GB (2x16 GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL36

Any other kits I should look out for?


----------



## Nizzen

Zyther said:


> Is there any top end kits that will always be Hynix or is it a lottery if you get Hynix or Samsung?
> Currently running on super cheap micron ram, not in a huge rush to get new memory, but would like to upgrade to get the most out of ram for gaming latency.
> 
> Looking at maybe getting:
> Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 6400MHz CL40 DDR5
> Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 6200MHz CL38 DDR5
> G.Skill Trident Z5 32GB (2x16 GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL36
> 
> Any other kits I should look out for?


Good luck getting
Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 6400MHz CL40 DDR5
Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 6200MHz CL38 DDR5

The WHOLE world is looking for them 

I preordered it day 1, and it hasn't shipped yet. Only 2x micron sets and 4x g.skill samsung sets... All I want is Hynix LOL


----------



## sblantipodi

sblantipodi said:


> thank you so much, I really appreciate all the help guys.
> I'm really grateful
> 
> in this way I finished 30 minutes of cinebench. let's see if I can do another 30 minutes.
> what is the max temp for DDR5? at 1.35 after 1 hour of cinebench I get 48°C on the hottest stick


Ok, I feel so dumb.
Spent 1000 euro for 4x16GB 5600MHz C36 memory and I can't get them past 4.4GHz
Memtest reported various error with the suggested settings.

Is there something else I can do to try to make them stable?


----------



## morph.

Hey all whats the best place get: "Run Memtest Pro 5.0.2860" from?

Only seem to have v 5.0.2825


----------



## dimar

morph. said:


> Hey all whats the best place get: "Run Memtest Pro 5.0.2860" from?
> 
> Only seem to have v 5.0.2825
> View attachment 2538455


I got mine from MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 Memory Testing Tool it's a yearly subscription price. but I'm building many PCs so it's useful.
It supports DDR5 but it doesn't show the correct speed during testing.
This one is free Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool but not sure if it supports ddr5


----------



## morph.

dimar said:


> I got mine from MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 Memory Testing Tool it's a yearly subscription price. but I'm building many PCs so it's useful.
> It supports DDR5 but it doesn't show the correct speed during testing.
> This one is free Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool but not sure if it supports ddr5


Yeah I have memtest pro v7 I'm after the GUI skin ""Run Memtest Pro 5.0.2860 "


----------



## dimar

If anyone's interested, I've got a response from TEAMGROUP that Asus is still working on BIOS optimization for DDR5 6400, and just need to wait for the right BIOS update.


----------



## bscool

morph. said:


> Yeah I have memtest pro v7 I'm after the GUI skin ""Run Memtest Pro 5.0.2860 "








旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com





code: bjnp 






百度网盘 请输入提取码


百度网盘为您提供文件的网络备份、同步和分享服务。空间大、速度快、安全稳固，支持教育网加速，支持手机端。注册使用百度网盘即可享受免费存储空间




pan.baidu.com


----------



## Falkentyne

bscool said:


> 旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验
> 
> 
> 旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chiphell.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> code: bjnp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 百度网盘 请输入提取码
> 
> 
> 百度网盘为您提供文件的网络备份、同步和分享服务。空间大、速度快、安全稳固，支持教育网加速，支持手机端。注册使用百度网盘即可享受免费存储空间
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pan.baidu.com


We can't download this. Requires some sort of chinese login to do....even after entering code it asks for a login and password...

Please put it someplace where foreigners can download it like dropbox, googledrive or onedrive ...


----------



## bscool

@Falkentyne Let me know if this works _RunmemtestPro5.0.2860.443.7z

Edit I didnt want to suffer @cstkl1 wrath so I was using the link he originally posted


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @Falkentyne Let me know if this works _RunmemtestPro5.0.2860.443.7z
> 
> Edit I didnt want to suffer @cstkl1 wrath so I was using the link he originally posted


?? i got it from safedisk ..


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Carillo said:


> Slapped some Ek Monarch's on my Sammy sticks, and it helped
> 
> 6400 cl30
> 
> 
> Voltages : CPU MC 1.30v, SA 1.20v, VDD 1.53v, VDDQ 1.55v
> RAM : G.skill (Samsung) F5-6000U4040E16G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2538341


 I might have the same model ddr5 as you can you help me figure out voltages needed to just get 6000mhz? Also have no idea why xmp3 isn't showing is there a driver/bios firmware specifically for xmp loading? I don't see anything for hero z690 past 0803


----------



## skullbringer

actually daily stable oc on s16b
loose enough to avoid boot-to-boot stability variations
low voltage enough to get away with stock cooling on ram completely passively










I know nothing special, but anyone claiming 6200c32 1t full stability, remove your ram fan and cold boot your systems a few times


----------



## Carillo

skullbringer said:


> actually daily stable oc on s16b
> loose enough to avoid boot-to-boot stability variations
> low voltage enough to get away with stock cooling on ram completely passively
> 
> View attachment 2538562
> 
> 
> I know nothing special, but anyone claiming 6200c32 1t full stability, remove your ram fan and cold boot your systems a few times


Why would anyone remove their ram cooling and reboot several times ?


----------



## Falkentyne

bscool said:


> @Falkentyne Let me know if this works _RunmemtestPro5.0.2860.443.7z
> 
> Edit I didnt want to suffer @cstkl1 wrath so I was using the link he originally posted


Yes that worked.


----------



## Carillo

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> I might have the same model ddr5 as you can you help me figure out voltages needed to just get 6000mhz? Also have no idea why xmp3 isn't showing is there a driver/bios firmware specifically for xmp loading? I don't see anything for hero z690 past 0803
> 
> View attachment 2538541


Just use XMP voltages, SA auto, MC 1,20-1,30, VDDQ/X 1,35.... Or load the samsung preloaded settings in bios for 6000 cl32 if you have APEX. All voltages are set.


----------



## satinghostrider

Carillo said:


> Just use XMP voltages, SA auto, MC 1,20-1,30, VDDQ/X 1,35.... Or load the samsung preloaded settings in bios for 6000 cl32 if you have APEX. All voltages are set.


This 6000c32 preload for Apex works on the SamsungC36 kit only or it can work with the SamsungC40 kit as well? Thanks!


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> @Falkentyne Let me know if this works _RunmemtestPro5.0.2860.443.7z
> 
> Edit I didnt want to suffer @cstkl1 wrath so I was using the link he originally posted


Awsome thankyou! Glad I asked haha... Now all I need is the latest asrock tuning configurator!


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> actually daily stable oc on s16b
> loose enough to avoid boot-to-boot stability variations
> low voltage enough to get away with stock cooling on ram completely passively
> 
> View attachment 2538562
> 
> 
> I know nothing special, but anyone claiming 6200c32 1t full stability, remove your ram fan and cold boot your systems a few times


Hard to remove ram fan, when you are using watercoled ddr5 
I testet without fan on G.skill 6000 with 1.5v. Errors came about 63-65c


----------



## centvalny

6800c30 1.6VDD/Q / 1.375MC / Corsair 6000c36 / MZ690A bios 0053


----------



## morph.

Apologies for the repost but I figured its appropriate for this thread as well:

All the ram guru's, I'm on the latest bios v0811 on the z690 formula and I've been running GEIL (Micron) 2x16 SR 5200 C34-38-38-78 on XMP 1 without any issues (3 weeks with daily reboots) till yesterday...

Yesterday I decided to see if I can increase the running speed up to 5400 but wasn't unable to train/boot it even when adding VDDD, VDDQ, MC to around 1.3-1.35v or running the pre-set 5400 memory profile manually.

Now here is the frustrating part... I haven't been able to since go back down to my default XMP1 or XMP2 profile of 5200 without BSODing after logging in.

I've tried reseating the ram multiple times.
I've switched the ram to each other's respective slots.
I've re-loaded bios to optimised defaults.
I've tried increasing VDDD, VDDQ, MC, SA voltages for the 5200 profile.

At the moment I'm settling for 5000mhz any idea why it is suddenly behaving like this? I know it's early days but 5200 is a pretty moderate speed it's not like we are talking about 6000+ so I was very surprised this happened even with XMP.

I've run mem test at 300% and passed it perfectly fine a few times previosuly... I suspect it might be something to do with the memory training however I've run the xmp1 5200 profile for nearly 3 weeks without issue with v0803 & v0811 until I decided to try and increase the ram speed yesterday. I've basically burnt a day trying to get it back to 5200 but every time it loads into windows post-login it BSOD's  Any help, pointers or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Got a set of g.skill z5 2x16 6000 c36 coming before Christmas hopefully... But now scared it might become a very expensive paperweight.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> Apologies for the repost but I figured its appropriate for this thread as well:
> 
> All the ram guru's, I'm on the latest bios v0811 on the z690 formula and I've been running GEIL (Micron) 2x16 SR 5200 C34-38-38-78 on XMP 1 without any issues (3 weeks with daily reboots) till yesterday...
> 
> Yesterday I decided to see if I can increase the running speed up to 5400 but wasn't unable to train/boot it even when adding VDDD, VDDQ, MC to around 1.3-1.35v or running the pre-set 5400 memory profile manually.
> 
> Now here is the frustrating part... I haven't been able to since go back down to my default XMP1 or XMP2 profile of 5200 without BSODing after logging in.
> 
> I've tried reseating the ram multiple times.
> I've switched the ram to each other's respective slots.
> I've re-loaded bios to optimised defaults.
> I've tried increasing VDDD, VDDQ, MC, SA voltages for the 5200 profile.
> 
> At the moment I'm settling for 5000mhz any idea why it is suddenly behaving like this? I know it's early days but 5200 is a pretty moderate speed it's not like we are talking about 6000+ so I was very surprised this happened even with XMP.
> 
> I've run mem test at 300% and passed it perfectly fine a few times previosuly... I suspect it might be something to do with the memory training however I've run the xmp1 5200 profile for nearly 3 weeks without issue with v0803 & v0811 until I decided to try and increase the ram speed yesterday. I've basically burnt a day trying to get it back to 5200 but every time it loads into windows post-login it BSOD's  Any help, pointers or tips would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Got a set of g.skill z5 2x16 6000 c36 coming before Christmas hopefully... But now scared it might become a very expensive paperweight.


Clear CMOS with the power PSU cable unplugged / PSU switch turned off in the back. Hold down Clear CMOS for 30 seconds (if you have an onboard CLR RTC/CMOS jumper, short the two jumper pins for 30 seconds or use a LN2 spare jumper block cap if your board has one sitting around).


----------



## chispy

I have just started playing with my first ddr5 memory kit ever. I have lots to learn as this is all new to me and a whole different ball park than ddr4. So far my experience has been pretty good and solid on the ASRock Z690 Aqua OC and Kingston 2x16gb kit 6000Mhz Cas40 Hynix ( both motherboard and memory kit are engineering samples i have been testing for ASRock ).

Thank you for this thread @Falkentyne and everybody that has contribute and share it's findings on this thread , it is a wealth of information and needed guidance.

I'm still learning the ddr5 behaviour , temps , voltages Cas Lat and settings so forgive me if i dont post the best timmings and settings available but i will share what i have found so far.

1. Temperatures on this ddr5 dimms are very temperature sensitive and it dictates how it behaves.
2. High voltages and brute force it's not always the way to go , it is best to start with low voltages and keep them low and reasonable for 24/7. For benchmarks push as much as you need 😅 .
3. There seems to be a balance between high frequency and thight cas lat , you need to find it for your dimms and motherboard what's the best possible scenario.
4. Bios do makes 100% difference on the performance you can extract from this new ddr5 dimms , so it is very motherboard manuf dependent.
5. Shortaches of good Hynix ddr5 is worldwide sadly 😔

Here is my first touch with ddr5 , i'm still learning so don't bash me please 😅 , tested some of my own settings with some of the settings posted on this thread to find some good performance out of this combo , not the best but this is what works for me.

ASRock Z690 Aqua OC 2 dimms mobo / retail binned 12900k / Kingston 2x16gb Cas40 6000Mhz Hynix kit / the ram is water cooled.

vddi cpu 1.20v
vdd imc 1.50
vdd ddq 1.53v


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> Clear CMOS with the power PSU cable unplugged / PSU switch turned off in the back. Hold down Clear CMOS for 30 seconds (if you have an onboard CLR RTC/CMOS jumper, short the two jumper pins for 30 seconds or use a LN2 spare jumper block cap if your board has one sitting around).


So I noticed something interesting just now....One of my dram sticks stopped showing the PMIC details on the ATC and also in HWINFO it stopped showing that specific DIMM's sensors such as power & temps Screenshot below now shows both.











I previously loaded thaiphoon burner to just "READ" some details of the memory modules and clicked on "READ". But it crashed out and I thought I'd try it again and now both modules seem borked or semi bricked... So it seems it wrote or wiped something somewhere on the rams eprom or something...

Mind you I can boot in and do stuff fine at 5000mhz but all this stuff (sensors & pmic vendor seems) to be missing now... *** do I do? :|











Sees this though:










Lesson learnt don't touch Thaiphoon burner for ddr5.... Not even read... Could probably give RMAing a shot once I receive my Z5's but that won't be for a couple more weeks it seems. However would love for it to be restored back to how it was.


----------



## opt33

Just received Gskill 5600 36-36-36 1.2v kit today. First run 6000 32-35-35 1.40 vdd/vddq set bios, 1.1 sa, 1.1 mic


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> So I noticed something interesting just now....One of my dram sticks stopped showing the PMIC details on the ATC and also in HWINFO it stopped showing that specific DIMM's sensors such as power & temps Screenshot below now shows both.
> 
> View attachment 2538664
> 
> 
> 
> I previously loaded thaiphoon burner to just "READ" some details of the memory modules and clicked on "READ". But it crashed out and I thought I'd try it again and now both modules seem borked or semi bricked... So it seems it wrote or wiped something somewhere on the rams eprom or something...
> 
> Mind you I can boot in and do stuff fine at 5000mhz but all this stuff (sensors & pmic vendor seems) to be missing now... *** do I do? :|
> 
> View attachment 2538666
> 
> 
> 
> Sees this though:
> View attachment 2538667
> 
> 
> 
> Lesson learnt don't touch Thaiphoon burner for ddr5.... Not even read... Could probably give RMAing a shot once I receive my Z5's but that won't be for a couple more weeks it seems. However would love for it to be restored back to how it was.



I honestly have no idea but I guess I'll delete Thaiphoon burner until this thing is fixed.


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> I honestly have no idea but I guess I'll delete Thaiphoon burner until this thing is fixed.




Yeah ran okay though but just wont go back to 5200 and get all the sensors back...


----------



## Mad1137

opt33 said:


> Just received Gskill 5600 36-36-36 1.2v kit today. First run 6000 32-35-35 1.40 vdd/vddq set bios, 1.1 sa, 1.1 mic
> 
> View attachment 2538665


It's save 1.4 for using every day ?)


----------



## matique

Since mine is an itx build + live in a tropical island with hot ambient, i figured I should get something to cool down my ram. Went ahead and purchased some heatspreaders from Xtia, something new to try other than regular monarchs.



















Ended up using 2mm rear, 1mm for PMIC, 0.5mm for memory, kpx paste where there was metal-metal contact. Everything fits nice and level, with good pad contact.










As the heatspreaders were made for ddr4, it only covers 80-90% of the lower positioned memory on ddr5.










Matte black everything? 










Stock was about 58C with a ramfan at 1.45v. As you can see, temps dropped to 47C. I suspect this is due to trident z5 ram not having any pads on the pmic. But all in all i'm pretty happy with the mod.


----------



## webwilli

morph. said:


> Yeah ran okay though but just wont go back to 5200 and get all the sensors back...


You can try maybe this



https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/04/alder-lake-overclocking-whats-new/#MR_Test2_Jumper





> Every ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 motherboard has a special function called MR_TEST2 which unlocks the ability to flash a new SPD on your DDR5 memory. You’ll need a special tool for this, but I’ll show you how it works nonetheless
> 
> First, insert a jumper onto the MR_TEST2 header
> Then, put your target DRAM module onto slot A0 (the slot on the left)
> If this DRAM does not boot due to broken SPD, simply disable both channels in the bios
> 
> Put Source DRAM into other slots
> Then, go into the BIOS and enter the Extreme Tweaker Tweaker’s Paradise submenu
> Here, set SPD Write Disable to FALSE
> 
> Now, go into the operating system and start the SPD flashing tool
> Select target slot to be source DRAM. In our case, that’s the module in the third slot. Click Read from target.
> Now you can edit the SPD, including all 5 XMP 3.0 profiles. You can also save a copy on your hard drive.
> When ready, select target slot to destination slot. In our case A0.
> Then click Write, wait and reboot.
> You can remove the jumper after if you wish


----------



## mattxx88

@Falkentyne @adna @Spiriva 

you guys, if i am not mistaken, are playing with Micron ram like mine

how do you set this values?


----------



## Falkentyne

mattxx88 said:


> @Falkentyne @adna @Spiriva
> 
> you guys, if i am not mistaken, are playing with Micron ram like mine
> 
> how do you set this values?


Those set TWRRD_SG and TWRRD_DG. I don't know the formula for how they work but they're related to two other timings and I don't remember how. But I set twtr_l (write to read delay L) to 12 and twtr_s to 1, and it ended up as twrrd_sg=56 and twrrd_dg=46. Again I don't know which other timing influences it. Maybe it's related to tWCL I forgot.


----------



## centvalny

6900c30


----------



## Muad_Dib69

I dont understand how you can push your ddr like this. mine barely work at stock speed.
it tried to copy some of the setup here, nothing worked.

on Formula 811 xmp1 gskill 600cas36 boot but crash sometimes. I have moved voltage to 1.35v instead of 1.30v, it seems stable now.
The ASUS samsung 6000cas32 profile don't boot even if i increase the voltage.


----------



## mattxx88

Falkentyne said:


> Those set TWRRD_SG and TWRRD_DG. I don't know the formula for how they work but they're related to two other timings and I don't remember how. But I set twtr_l (write to read delay L) to 12 and twtr_s to 1, and it ended up as twrrd_sg=56 and twrrd_dg=46. Again I don't know which other timing influences it. Maybe it's related to tWCL I forgot.
> 
> View attachment 2538700


my kit is rly bad anyway, need to push vdd/vddq to 1.45v to make them work 5600c36 like yours
adna's kit make those settings at stock voltages, amazing


----------



## kaTus

Hello there,

Can anyone share CPU Scores from 3DMark Time Spy with DDR5 after OC?


----------



## sugi0lover

kaTus said:


> Hello there,
> 
> Can anyone share CPU Scores from 3DMark Time Spy with DDR5 after OC?


Here it is.
Ram OC : 6400 c30 1t








I scored 23 020 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## kaTus

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is.
> Ram OC : 6400 c30 1t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 23 020 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


thanks a lot and how is your CPU clocked?


----------



## sugi0lover

kaTus said:


> thanks a lot and how is your CPU clocked?


You can click the link and see all details. Cpu oc was all cores p 5.6, e 4.4, cache 4.5.


----------



## kaTus

sugi0lover said:


> You can click the link and see all details. Cpu oc was all cores p 5.6, e 4.4, cache 4.5.


Yeah i know, but i wanted to be sure if its all cores.
I am mostly looking for scores with daily OC like 5.2/5.3GHz allcores


----------



## Mad1137

Guys please , tell me  vdd and vddq 1.4 it's save for daily usage ? Samsung c36


----------



## Avacado

Mad1137 said:


> Guys please , tell me  vdd and vddq 1.4 it's save for daily usage ? Samsung c36


Maybe 🤷‍♂️ 

I wouldn't push past 1.3 for daily. At least not until other people Guinea pig first.


----------



## Nizzen

kaTus said:


> Yeah i know, but i wanted to be sure if its all cores.
> I am mostly looking for scores with daily OC like 5.2/5.3GHz allcores


Post your score?


----------



## Nizzen

Mad1137 said:


> Guys please , tell me  vdd and vddq 1.4 it's save for daily usage ? Samsung c36


Error around 65c, so keep it cold 
Then everything is safe enough. I'm running close to 1.5v samsung.


----------



## cstkl1

kaTus said:


> Hello there,
> 
> Can anyone share CPU Scores from 3DMark Time Spy with DDR5 after OC?











I scored 22 621 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





should be 52|41|44


----------



## Benni231990

here are my final GSkill 6000 CL40 settings

VDD/VDDQ 1.43V | SA 1.25 | MC 1.3

like i say samsung absolute potato chips


----------



## matique

kaTus said:


> Yeah i know, but i wanted to be sure if its all cores.
> I am mostly looking for scores with daily OC like 5.2/5.3GHz allcores











Result not found







www.3dmark.com





All core 5.2p/4.1e/4.0 ring, 6400c34 CR2.


----------



## Nizzen

Benni231990 said:


> here are my final GSkill 6000 CL40 settings
> 
> VDD/VDDQ 1.43V | SA 1.25 | MC 1.3
> 
> like i say samsung absolute potato chips
> 
> View attachment 2538718


Hmm... I'm getting the same bandwidth on 6000mhz and 52ns... Maybe Strix is potato 
I'm using Apex


----------



## Benni231990

maybe xD 

but so dissapointment all sk guys can have 6400+ with cl30 and below and we samsung guys stick at this **** 6200 with cl34 ****


----------



## roooo

Benni231990 said:


> here are my final GSkill 6000 CL40 settings
> 
> VDD/VDDQ 1.43V | SA 1.25 | MC 1.3
> 
> like i say samsung absolute potato chips
> 
> View attachment 2538718


I have the 6000C36 running at 6000-32-35-35-52-T1 on Apex and am getting 100/95/95/53ns. The trick for me is to go really low on SA as suggested by others. Memtest will throw errors with SA 1.2 and 1.1V - so I decreased that to 0.95V and have been stable until now.


----------



## Benni231990

when i go under 1.25 SA the system want boot to bios


----------



## roooo

Benni231990 said:


> when i go unter 1.25 SA the system want boot to bios


Ouch. Then it appears to be a Strix thing.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Hmm... I'm getting the same bandwidth on 6000mhz and 52ns... Maybe Strix is potato
> I'm using Apex


This is CL30 T1 I assume? How did you get this stable? Are you running off the 6000C32 preset and optimized from there?


----------



## Benni231990

all apex and maximus user have the luxury with profiles we strix user must set all manually in the bios and test xD

yeahr i also think thats a strix thing


----------



## roooo

Benni231990 said:


> all apex and maximus user have the luxury with profiles we strix user must set all manually in the bios and test xD
> 
> yeahr i also think thats a strix thing


I could send you the BIOS settings as TXT if that's any helpful. But I did not have time to optimize beyond the preset yet.


----------



## Benni231990

thanks but im happy now with my settings for the ram and cpu

but i have a little question:
i used the bios memtest and i got 1 little error in the 3rd test from 4

but in games and windows all stable no bluescreen nothing so is this 1 little error critical or not?

in my first ever ddr5 setting with no experiance i had over 900 error in the first test xDDD


----------



## Falkentyne

mattxx88 said:


> my kit is rly bad anyway, need to push vdd/vddq to 1.45v to make them work 5600c36 like yours
> adna's kit make those settings at stock voltages, amazing


Mine is 1.35/1.40 for vdd and vddq.


----------



## Muad_Dib69

Benni231990 said:


> thanks but im happy now with my settings for the ram and cpu
> 
> but i have a little question:
> i used the bios memtest and i got 1 little error in the 3rd test from 4
> 
> but in games and windows all stable no bluescreen nothing so is this 1 little error critical or not?
> 
> in my first ever ddr5 setting with no experiance i had over 900 error in the first test xDDD


Same for me with xmp1 at 1.3v. at 1.35v it's now fine for 6000cas36 Also check the temperature you start to have errors after 64°C


----------



## roooo

Benni231990 said:


> thanks but im happy now with my settings for the ram and cpu
> 
> but i have a little question:
> i used the bios memtest and i got 1 little error in the 3rd test from 4
> 
> but in games and windows all stable no bluescreen nothing so is this 1 little error critical or not?
> 
> in my first ever ddr5 setting with no experiance i had over 900 error in the first test xDDD


First off, BIOS memtest should not be used as a measure of stability. Memtest / HCI and the like are better suited for that, also because they're running off the OS. As far as stability is concerned, that's a matter of personal preference. If you use the machine for gaming only, I'd consider one error in a serious memtest as less critical. If you value data integrity, one error is too much.
I'm partially using my machine for work, running heavy math stuff under Linux. That's where errors will usually pop up earlier than under Windows. If I'm stable under Linux, I'm usually also stable under heavy Windows games load.


----------



## Benni231990

i cant see the temperature in the memtest from the bios but in windows after 35min aida 64 ram stresstest i have 55.0°C on the hottest ram the other have 53,8°C

and i only play with my pc no data or work or linux


----------



## Muad_Dib69

ok so it's more a stabiltiy issue, not the temperature


----------



## Benni231990

but i dont have any bluescreen or errors and in the aida 64 stress test i have also no error


----------



## kaTus

matique said:


> Result not found
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All core 5.2p/4.1e/4.0 ring, 6400c34 CR2.


Greate score, thanks for sharing  Probably i will need help with overclocking DDR5


----------



## kaTus

Nizzen said:


> Post your score?











I scored 21 084 in Time Spy


AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





I currently run 5900X, but I picked up 12900K last week and was going to pair it with Strix-A D4, yet today was drop of GSKill TridentZ 6000MHZ CL36 in store for 430€. 
So i am thinking about getting Maximus Z690 Hero + DDR5.


----------



## kaTus

cstkl1 said:


> I scored 22 621 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> should be 52|41|44


Awsome,12900K + DDR5 looks great


----------



## opt33

Mad1137 said:


> It's save 1.4 for using every day ?)


I ran same 6000c32 memtest 2hrs at 1.38v vdd/vddq, 1.0 sa, 1.1 mic, that will use 24/7 if passes overnight, if not will use 1.39/1.4 Currently trying 6200 c32, but that may be higher voltage than I want until ddr5 in better supply.


----------



## kaTus

opt33 said:


> I ran same 6000c32 memtest 2hrs at 1.38v vdd/vddq, 1.0 sa, 1.1 mic, that will use 24/7 if passes overnight, if not will use 1.39/1.4 Currently trying 6200 c32, but that may be higher voltage than I want until ddr5 in better supply.


How it scores in Aida64 with such OC on Hero? 
I see most ppl here have Apex. I am wondering, how big is difference between Hero and Apex in Mem OC.


----------



## opt33

kaTus said:


> How it scores in Aida64 with such OC on Hero?
> I see most ppl here have Apex. I am wondering, how big is difference between Hero and Apex in Mem OC.


post 714 has my aida64 screenshot with memtest.


----------



## Benni231990

but why is the difference between the apex and maximus and strix so high on the memory? 

has the strix lower or badder components as the apex and maximus?


----------



## asdkj1740

Falkentyne said:


> We can't download this. Requires some sort of chinese login to do....even after entering code it asks for a login and password...
> 
> Please put it someplace where foreigners can download it like dropbox, googledrive or onedrive ...


this should be the original 5.0








1.17 MB file on MEGA







mega.nz





found in:








[下載] RunMemtestPro 記憶體測試軟體 - BenchLife.info


下載 RunMemtestPro 4.0 進行記憶體穩定度測試吧！ 記憶體時脈與參數調整後，想知道是 […]




benchlife.info


----------



## dante`afk

could anyone clarify this;











@shamino1978

lets say we find a stable setting, if we don't want the board to retrain, we have to set both MCH fullcheck and fastboot to enabled?


----------



## asdkj1740

morph. said:


> So I noticed something interesting just now....One of my dram sticks stopped showing the PMIC details on the ATC and also in HWINFO it stopped showing that specific DIMM's sensors such as power & temps Screenshot below now shows both.
> 
> View attachment 2538664
> 
> 
> 
> I previously loaded thaiphoon burner to just "READ" some details of the memory modules and clicked on "READ". But it crashed out and I thought I'd try it again and now both modules seem borked or semi bricked... So it seems it wrote or wiped something somewhere on the rams eprom or something...
> 
> Mind you I can boot in and do stuff fine at 5000mhz but all this stuff (sensors & pmic vendor seems) to be missing now... *** do I do? :|
> 
> View attachment 2538666
> 
> 
> 
> Sees this though:
> View attachment 2538667
> 
> 
> 
> Lesson learnt don't touch Thaiphoon burner for ddr5.... Not even read... Could probably give RMAing a shot once I receive my Z5's but that won't be for a couple more weeks it seems. However would love for it to be restored back to how it was.


what model is your kit?
are you going into boot loop when trying to enable the xmp profile?



matique said:


> Since mine is an itx build + live in a tropical island with hot ambient, i figured I should get something to cool down my ram. Went ahead and purchased some heatspreaders from Xtia, something new to try other than regular monarchs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ended up using 2mm rear, 1mm for PMIC, 0.5mm for memory, kpx paste where there was metal-metal contact. Everything fits nice and level, with good pad contact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the heatspreaders were made for ddr4, it only covers 80-90% of the lower positioned memory on ddr5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matte black everything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stock was about 58C with a ramfan at 1.45v. As you can see, temps dropped to 47C. I suspect this is due to trident z5 ram not having any pads on the pmic. But all in all i'm pretty happy with the mod.


what model is that? trident z5 6000c36?? no thermal pad for pmic confirmed?


----------



## TheGuardian

Guys I Just bought Asus rog Maximus Hero z690 with Team T-force delta 32gb kit 6400 ddr5. Is it good/bad ? anything I should know about ?


----------



## matique

asdkj1740 said:


> what model is your kit?
> are you going into boot loop when trying to enable the xmp profile?
> 
> 
> what model is that? trident z5 6000c36?? no thermal pad for pmic confirmed?


Yep no thermal pad for pmic confirmed on stock heatspreader.


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> Yep no thermal pad for pmic confirmed on stock heatspreader.


any photos? thank you.


----------



## satinghostrider

Actually for these G.skill modules just look through the side of the module, it is clear there is no PMIC thermal pads.
I can confirm mine is the same even without opening up the heatsink.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Anyone overclocking Samsung DDR5 ICs get hard resets when stress testing? Driving me insane. Using 12900K and Apex I can get to 1000%+ in Karhu with no errors and then randomly reboots itself after the motherboard clicks. Tried everything I can think of and curious if anyone else has seen this behavior?


----------



## cstkl1

i9 12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
2x16gb 6600 28-37-37-28-1T @1.65v
SA | txvddq | MC - 0.9v | 1.55v | 1.55v


----------



## morph.

Well this came in clutch…. 6000 c36’s


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> i9 12900k - SP93
> Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
> 2x16gb 6600 28-37-37-28-1T @1.65v
> SA | txvddq | MC - 0.9v | 1.55v | 1.55v


Wow nice primaries! What temps did it end up going to?


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Wow nice primaries! What temps did it end up going to?


45c on non rgb stick
63c on rgb stick


----------



## oc22jirM

Are the pre-made profiles on the asus line only on the apex model? Would I find them in my hero bios also? I keep hearing about the Samsung 6000 c32 profile found in Asus bios. I have Trident z5 rgb 5600 c36, and also got lucky with a z5 6000 c40 kit but it seems like going through these forums people are liking the c36 better. I'm on a maximus hero, 12900k, and standard Trident z5 rgb heatsinks. Any suggestions on which kit I should stick with or what type of OCs I should begin with? Turn off xmp and test out what's stable? Keep xmp on and tweak some settings, up the voltage? Almost done reading through the ddr5 thread and the asus maximus / strix owners thread. 

Some impressive OC going on, happy to join the party learning from you all.


----------



## roooo

mattjirmanos said:


> Are the pre-made profiles on the asus line only on the apex model? Would I find them in my hero bios also? I keep hearing about the Samsung 6000 c32 profile found in Asus bios. I have Trident z5 rgb 5600 c36, and also got lucky with a z5 6000 c40 kit but it seems like going through these forums people are liking the c36 better. I'm on a maximus hero, 12900k, and standard Trident z5 rgb heatsinks. Any suggestions on which kit I should stick with or what type of OCs I should begin with? Turn off xmp and test out what's stable? Keep xmp on and tweak some settings, up the voltage? Almost done reading through the ddr5 thread and the asus maximus / strix owners thread.
> 
> Some impressive OC going on, happy to join the party learning from you all.


I can only report on the 6000C36 kit running easily as 6000C32 with the corresponding profile on the Apex. FWIW Aida results went from 92000/84000/81000/60.3 to 101000/95000/95000/53.4. However it appears to me that tightening it further would require significant effort for which I currently don't have enough time.

If you're interested, I could post the MEM section of my BIOS settings for the Apex's 6000C32 profile.


----------



## blautemple

mattjirmanos said:


> Are the pre-made profiles on the asus line only on the apex model? Would I find them in my hero bios also? I keep hearing about the Samsung 6000 c32 profile found in Asus bios. I have Trident z5 rgb 5600 c36, and also got lucky with a z5 6000 c40 kit but it seems like going through these forums people are liking the c36 better. I'm on a maximus hero, 12900k, and standard Trident z5 rgb heatsinks. Any suggestions on which kit I should stick with or what type of OCs I should begin with? Turn off xmp and test out what's stable? Keep xmp on and tweak some settings, up the voltage? Almost done reading through the ddr5 thread and the asus maximus / strix owners thread.
> 
> Some impressive OC going on, happy to join the party learning from you all.


You have the same profiles on the Hero


----------



## oc22jirM

roooo said:


> I can only report on the 6000C36 kit running easily as 6000C32 with the corresponding profile on the Apex. FWIW Aida results went from 92000/84000/81000/60.3 to 101000/95000/95000/53.4. However it appears to me that tightening it further would require significant effort for which I currently don't have enough time.
> 
> If you're interested, I could post the MEM section of my BIOS settings for the Apex's 6000C32 profile.


Thank you! Sounds good, I can definitely give them a try. I may need to start a little lower to begin since these are binned at 5600 but I will definitely give it a try.


----------



## oc22jirM

blautemple said:


> You have the same profiles on the Hero


Sounds good, thanks!


----------



## leonman44

cstkl1 said:


> 45c on non rgb stick
> 63c on rgb stick


Oh no and I sadly ordered the rgb ones… will I need a fan cooler or even a water block for them ?


----------



## cstkl1

leonman44 said:


> Oh no and I sadly ordered the rgb ones… will I need a fan cooler or even a water block for them ?


mine engineering sample. bios 021 wont work on it.

6400 1T the sweet spot. for long term stability and it doesnt interfere with cpu oc.

these 6600 1T etc all just runs. problem not timing. its the same timings as 6400.

if u wanna know its the same issue i had with 3866 on rkl gear 1. took a while to solve it. this still no where close to 6400 daily .


----------



## asdkj1740

z690 aorus master

F7a
8.90 MB
2021/12/21


Checksum : A4DC
Improve compatibility for GSkill DDR5 4800~6000+ MHz

qvl:


6000G.SKILL16GB1Rx8F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RSSSSamsung36-36-36-761.3vvvv4800v

gigabyte lists this now.


----------



## morph.

First past with XMP1 baseline/benchmark done and seems okay on z690 Formula and v0811 bios.
Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK


----------



## roooo

morph. said:


> First past with XMP1 baseline/benchmark done and seems okay on z690 Formula and v0811 bios.
> Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> View attachment 2538890


That's a pretty high latency...with the same kit & profile on the Apex I got roughly 60ns (same AIDA version). Do you have E-cores enabled & what ring multi are you running?


----------



## morph.

roooo said:


> That's a pretty high latency...with the same kit & profile on the Apex I got roughly 60ns (same AIDA version). Do you have E-cores enabled & what ring multi are you running?


Ring ratio at 40 and e cores at 40 what are yours?


----------



## leonman44

cstkl1 said:


> mine engineering sample. bios 021 wont work on it.
> 
> 6400 1T the sweet spot. for long term stability and it doesnt interfere with cpu oc.
> 
> these 6600 1T etc all just runs. problem not timing. its the same timings as 6400.
> 
> if u wanna know its the same issue i had with 3866 on rkl gear 1. took a while to solve it. this still no where close to 6400 daily .


6400 1t is indeed the best scenario but a lot of people seems that can’t run them past 6200mhz. I will try my luck anyway but I don’t think cl40s kit will do it.

What logical stress test for everyday stability usage do you recommend?


----------



## morph.

Asus bios configured memory settings for 2x16dr Samsung, wasn't able to post with 1t but 2t looks okay -Will likely tighten this a little further and hopefully have it run at 6200 when I get motivated!


----------



## matique

asdkj1740 said:


> any photos? thank you.












Here ya go. 


















Closeups if anyone is interested. 










All good and gaming stable too. 










Temps with cooler 25-26c ambient. Pretty happy with it. Wish ddr5 also showed actual memory temps.


----------



## cstkl1

leonman44 said:


> 6400 1t is indeed the best scenario but a lot of people seems that can’t run them past 6200mhz. I will try my luck anyway but I don’t think cl40s kit will do it.
> 
> What logical stress test for everyday stability usage do you recommend?


check the second and third sub-timing maths with a relax twcl first. 

this what differs on diff cpus


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> View attachment 2538897
> 
> 
> Here ya go.
> 
> View attachment 2538899
> 
> View attachment 2538898
> 
> 
> Closeups if anyone is interested.
> 
> View attachment 2538903
> 
> 
> All good and gaming stable too.
> 
> View attachment 2538902
> 
> 
> Temps with cooler 25-26c ambient. Pretty happy with it. Wish ddr5 also showed actual memory temps.


thxxx


----------



## adna

mattxx88 said:


> @Falkentyne @adna @Spiriva
> 
> you guys, if i am not mistaken, are playing with Micron ram like mine
> 
> how do you set this values?


with speed 5800MHz.


----------



## skullbringer

cletus-cassidy said:


> Anyone overclocking Samsung DDR5 ICs get hard resets when stress testing? Driving me insane. Using 12900K and Apex I can get to 1000%+ in Karhu with no errors and then randomly reboots itself after the motherboard clicks. Tried everything I can think of and curious if anyone else has seen this behavior?


+1 seeing the same thing here. 3 hours into uptime and memtest with 0 errors and reset, unexpected shutdown in eventviewer. 

previously I only had this after a few minutes with too high SA, but this now is different. increasing Fsw on VDD and VDDQ also did not help


----------



## roooo

morph. said:


> Ring ratio at 40 and e cores at 40 what are yours?


P-cores only, ring ratio 50 - obviously this makes a serious difference.


----------



## opt33

For gskill 5600 36-36-36 1.2 kit

overnight memtest stable 6000c34 1.35 vddq 1.35 vdd, sa .9 or 1.0, mc 1.1
overnight memtest stable 6000c32 1.39 vddq, 1.39vdd, sa 1.0 (didnt try stock), mc 1.1 (screen shot of 1 hour run with timings post 714).

For memtest stable ~1 hour (1st pic) 6200c32 1.49 vdd/vddq and 1.18mc (dont know if mc or vvd that high necessary as changed both same time), sa still 1.0

According to Anta777 earlier posts if go below jedec standards the value is ignored as I understood him, so in this run I left twr jedec min 48, trrds jedec min 8 which means tfaw 32 (4x trrds), RTP 12, tCWL 30 (tCL-2).










In second pic (below) I ignored jedec standards on 3 values, set twr 24, trrds 6, and ftaw 24 for comparison. I ran each read/write/copy/latency 20 times individually, same as pic above, recorded top 5 values for each and tried to leave each near best value of 20. 
--Lower twr/trrds/ftaw vs jedec twr/trrds/ftaw read and copy speeds were same comparing 20 runs each.
--Write speed was consistently about 500mb/s faster with lower twr/trrds/ftaw 
--Latency was consistently 0.5ns to 0.7 ns lower by following jedec (higher set twr 48/trrds8/ftaw32)
But this is one test, one speed, one sample, and not sure statistically significant....so unless multiple people test it....wont know anything. But have to do multiple runs of each to minimize variance error. As for stability, so far both will pass memtest an hour, but havent walked voltages down enough to see if any difference.


----------



## Benni231990

@matique 

did you change the **** sticky thermal pad to a real silicon pad?

when yes what can you say about temps?


----------



## matique

Benni231990 said:


> @matique
> 
> did you change the **** sticky thermal pad to a real silicon pad?
> 
> when yes what can you say about temps?


I showed a pic of temps in my post. About 10-12c drop. I used gelid ultimate pads.

Photos here : *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


----------



## opt33

Found jedec ddr5 standards table, but there are revisions after this one, so dont know if same values in current revisions. but in this table: 
twr min= 45, trrds=min 8, RTPmin= 7.5 min. 
but dont know what happens if go below those values, ignored or not, someone would have to know controller logic.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

morph. said:


> Apologies for the repost but I figured its appropriate for this thread as well:
> 
> All the ram guru's, I'm on the latest bios v0811 on the z690 formula and I've been running GEIL (Micron) 2x16 SR 5200 C34-38-38-78 on XMP 1 without any issues (3 weeks with daily reboots) till yesterday...
> 
> Yesterday I decided to see if I can increase the running speed up to 5400 but wasn't unable to train/boot it even when adding VDDD, VDDQ, MC to around 1.3-1.35v or running the pre-set 5400 memory profile manually.
> 
> Now here is the frustrating part... I haven't been able to since go back down to my default XMP1 or XMP2 profile of 5200 without BSODing after logging in.
> 
> I've tried reseating the ram multiple times.
> I've switched the ram to each other's respective slots.
> I've re-loaded bios to optimised defaults.
> I've tried increasing VDDD, VDDQ, MC, SA voltages for the 5200 profile.
> 
> At the moment I'm settling for 5000mhz any idea why it is suddenly behaving like this? I know it's early days but 5200 is a pretty moderate speed it's not like we are talking about 6000+ so I was very surprised this happened even with XMP.
> 
> I've run mem test at 300% and passed it perfectly fine a few times previosuly... I suspect it might be something to do with the memory training however I've run the xmp1 5200 profile for nearly 3 weeks without issue with v0803 & v0811 until I decided to try and increase the ram speed yesterday. I've basically burnt a day trying to get it back to 5200 but every time it loads into windows post-login it BSOD's  Any help, pointers or tips would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Got a set of g.skill z5 2x16 6000 c36 coming before Christmas hopefully... But now scared it might become a very expensive paperweight.



It probably threw your training all out of wack go to bios extreme tweaker>Dram Timing Control and scroll near the bottom *disable* *fast boot* f10 save changes it should get you back to 5200. If it doesn't pass memtest then set your speed to auto instead of 5200. Memtest and then after it passes take it up to 5000 then back to 5200 repeat back to auto speed "auto should default to 4800" or 4000mhz depends on your configuration 4 sticks or 2 ec...


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Hero z690 ddr5 newest bios released today 0811... for those of you that didn't use the beta version 0811 that were posted somewhere here in the forums. I guess now that it is on the Asus support page it is the final version of the 0811 bios. 

Can anyone verify without a doubt that these bios have the AC load line calibration and DC impedance balanced? No longer needing to input .60 and 1.70 into the bios and balance for VRM power CPU power VID equality? Load line 1 configuration prior to bios 0811 needing .60 AC 1.70 DC as starting point.

CPU clocks being stability is required for Mem overclocking and I am finding it impossible to get my 2 sticks of F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS to 6000mhz.

Maybe I need to disable efficiency cores?


----------



## Talon2016

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Hero z690 ddr5 newest bios released today 0811... for those of you that didn't use the beta version 0811 that were posted somewhere here in the forums. I guess now that it is on the Asus support page it is the final version of the 0811 bios.
> 
> Can anyone verify without a doubt that these bios have the AC load line calibration and DC impedance balanced? No longer needing to input .60 and 1.70 into the bios and balance for VRM power CPU power VID equality? Load line 1 configuration prior to bios 0811 needing .60 AC 1.70 DC as starting point.
> 
> CPU clocks being stability is required for Mem overclocking and I am finding it impossible to get my 2 sticks of F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS to 6000mhz.
> 
> Maybe I need to disable efficiency cores?


It's not posted there for me? Can you share it somewhere?


----------



## jomama22

opt33 said:


> Found jedec ddr5 standards table, but there are revisions after this one, so dont know if same values in current revisions. but in this table:
> twr min= 45, trrds=min 8, RTPmin= 7.5 min.
> but dont know what happens if go below those values, ignored or not, someone would have to know controller logic.
> View attachment 2538972


You have to be careful here. For twr for example, it is in ns. For somthing like 6400 Mt(3200mhz) that is around a 144 twr setting(since bios settings follow clock, not ns) which seems...high lol


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Talon2016 said:


> It's not posted there for me? Can you share it somewhere?








ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA


Designed for the broadest range of the demanding fans, ROG Maximus Z690 Hero features 20+1 power stages, DDR5, five M.2 support, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 front-panel connector, dual Thunderbolt™ 4, PCIe 5.0 and onboard WiFi 6E.



rog.asus.com





....Hero z690 DDR5

If you don't see it on your manufactures website then you probably don't understand what board you have / or what board I have and I am referring to Hero z690


----------



## opt33

jomama22 said:


> You have to be careful here. For twr for example, it is in ns. For somthing like 6400 Mt(3200mhz) that is around a 144 twr setting(since bios settings follow clock, not ns) which seems...high lol


yeah, was trying to find where anta777 got twr 48 minimum from, but missed the ns thanks for pointing that out, I hope he wasnt going by that. lowering twr from 48 to 24 in bios clearly increases write by 500mb/s, doesnt affect copy/read on mine enough to measure, and ? effect on latency (which varies more and harder to accurately see differences), so does seem to use 24 value, even though effect is small. 

Without clear documentation, pretty much left with trial and error, would be nice if min effective values exist for them to be listed.


----------



## Talon2016

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA
> 
> 
> Designed for the broadest range of the demanding fans, ROG Maximus Z690 Hero features 20+1 power stages, DDR5, five M.2 support, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 front-panel connector, dual Thunderbolt™ 4, PCIe 5.0 and onboard WiFi 6E.
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....Hero z690 DDR5
> 
> If you don't see it on your manufactures website then you probably don't understand what board you have / or what board I have and I am referring to Hero z690


I understand how to navigate to a boards website and look for the BIOS. What I am saying is that 0811 is not showing for me, only 0803. But thanks for your pleasant response.


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> I understand how to navigate to a boards website and look for the BIOS. What I am saying is that 0811 is not showing for me, only 0803. But thanks for your pleasant response.


811 is from Shamino directly:
(hold mouse over link to see what MB it's ment for)


https://www.dropbox.com/s/yc8c82hmp2...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6opzwy0ee...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/59hwlwjqsl...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4y7iseu23t...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4ych6eyas...-0811.rar?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h1cnqef1lt...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n4oqr8fvm...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/poiznc53gw...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1m4s5mzc6...-0812.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8kpqc0dkw...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/euizkcgv50...-0811.rar?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vrrsc67h0...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0opn4vvqy...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrtkeipof3...-0811.rar?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4xv4ywydt...-0811.rar?dl=0

Official:

Version 0811
2021/12/22 11.44 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BIOS 0811
"- Improve DRAM performance

improve system stability
improve thunderbolt device compatibility
Improve system performance

Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (MZ690H.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."
DOWNLOAD


----------



## Carillo

Finally  Samsung 6600 CL34  

G.skill F5-6000U4040E16G


----------



## oc22jirM

Carillo said:


> Finally  Samsung 6600 CL34
> 
> G.skill F5-6000U4040E16G
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539031


Very nice work! I have the 5600 c36 currently but 6000 c40 on the way and I was debating returning the 6000 cl40 (z5) set becuase I saw some folks not having luck with the 6000/40 kit. I am wondering if I can achieve this on a maximus hero.


----------



## jomama22

opt33 said:


> yeah, was trying to find where anta777 got twr 48 minimum from, but missed the ns thanks for pointing that out, I hope he wasnt going by that. lowering twr from 48 to 24 in bios clearly increases write by 500mb/s, doesnt affect copy/read on mine enough to measure, and ? effect on latency (which varies more and harder to accurately see differences), so does seem to use 24 value, even though effect is small.
> 
> Without clear documentation, pretty much left with trial and error, would be nice if min effective values exist for them to be listed.


My best guess is he grabbed it from microns Ic sheet where there is a timing diagram what twr should be at it's minimum (it's 8 + 1 (for RPST) + CL (in clock cycles) + wtr_l or wtr_s(though I would guess it's the max)). So it would vary based on that but again, it's kinda conjure as having looked through microns sheet, tWR can vary depending on when it's being used.


----------



## Nizzen

Apex 0031 testing:

G.skill 6000c40 isn't stable with XMP in memorytesting. (a bit more "voltage" and it's stable, even up to 6400mhz xmp settings @ ~1,45v)

G.skill 6000c36 is stable with XMP 

Almost the first time I loaded XMP for memory stability testing 😂 🤟


----------



## Nizzen

mattjirmanos said:


> Very nice work! I have the 5600 c36 currently but 6000 c40 on the way and I was debating returning the 6000 cl40 (z5) set becuase I saw some folks not having luck with the 6000/40 kit. I am wondering if I can achieve this on a maximus hero.


5600c36 looks to be "the same" bin as 6000c36 and 6000c40. Maybe it's just lottery who is the best overclocker.

I have 2x5600c36, 1x6000c40 and 1x6000c36 here for testing, so I have enough to do before christmas 😅


----------



## oc22jirM

Nizzen said:


> 5600c36 looks to be "the same" bin as 6000c36 and 6000c40. Maybe it's just lottery who is the best overclocker.
> 
> I have 2x5600c36, 1x6000c40 and 1x6000c36 here for testing, so I have enough to do before christmas 😅
> View attachment 2539077


Very nice. I also have a corsair 5600 / c36 on the way but currently stuck in customs. I also like how the rgb looks on the z5 a bit better.


----------



## Nizzen

mattjirmanos said:


> Very nice. I also have a corsair 5600 / c36 on the way but currently stuck in customs. I also like how the rgb looks on the z5 a bit better.


EK velocity 2 and z5

Need to set solid color


----------



## morph.

roooo said:


> P-cores only, ring ratio 50 - obviously this makes a serious difference.


Disabled a couple of background services that did my watercooling monitoring/sensors and the latency improved a little.


----------



## morph.

delete


----------



## cletus-cassidy

skullbringer said:


> +1 seeing the same thing here. 3 hours into uptime and memtest with 0 errors and reset, unexpected shutdown in eventviewer.
> 
> previously I only had this after a few minutes with too high SA, but this now is different. increasing Fsw on VDD and VDDQ also did not help


Glad it’s not just me. I have tried everything. More stable with low SA for me but the resets are driving me nuts. I’m on an Apex with 806 Bios. Have you tried others?


----------



## jomama22

cletus-cassidy said:


> Glad it’s not just me. I have tried everything. More stable with low SA for me but the resets are driving me nuts. I’m on an Apex with 806 Bios. Have you tried others?


Bump CPU termination and CPU standby, as well as their boot counterparts (in tweakers paradise and Digi+, respectively) to 1.2v.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

morph. said:


> Disabled a couple of background services that did my watercooling monitoring/sensors and the latency improved a little.
> 
> View attachment 2539080


Would you please let me know your SA and MC voltage? CPU overclocked, AI or manual? SP? Thank you~


----------



## oc22jirM

Nizzen said:


> EK velocity 2 and z5
> 
> Need to set solid color
> View attachment 2539079


Haha yes sir mine is set to static right now 😂


----------



## oc22jirM

I was able to get the system to boot on the 6000/c32 Samsung profile on my z5 6000 c40 kit. Running Asus hero z690 on 0811 official bios. Going to get into windows and start stress testing this bad boy before I attempt to move on to 6200.


----------



## morph.

emrick.lee.ghost said:


> Would you please let me know your SA and MC voltage? CPU overclocked, AI or manual? SP? Thank you~


Haven't spent time optimising or lowering the voltage floor yet but it's just based off the asus memory profiles with v0811 bios.

SA currently I've dropped to 1.1 will see how it goes mc was around 1.3v.

My overclocks are not ai this would be the wrong forum for that lol... my CPU oc varies as I use tvb with per core usage and tvb so it can go all the way up to 5.6ghz 1 core down to 5.3-5.2ghz all cores depending on load/temps sp is only 84.


----------



## morph.

mattjirmanos said:


> I was able to get the system to boot on the 6000/c32 Samsung profile on my z5 6000 c40 kit. Running Asus hero z690 on 0811 official bios. Going to get into windows and start stress testing this bad boy before I attempt to move on to 6200.


I've been unable to get 6200 stable even when loosening some of my primary timings or 1t to even post at 6000 on the z690 formula.

Suspect, I need more voltage than 1.5v but not sure I'll go that high yet.


----------



## inedenimadam

asdkj1740 said:


> what model is that? trident z5 6000c36?? no thermal pad for pmic confirmed?


Installed EK kit last night on the z5 600c36 kit. Can confirm, no thermal interface on the pmic. I was surprised the XMP profile isn't stable. 5800C34 is though. I haven't played much yet.


----------



## oc22jirM

morph. said:


> I've been unable to get 6200 stable even when loosening some of my primary timings or 1t to even post at 6000 on the z690 formula.
> 
> Suspect, I need more voltage than 1.5v but not sure I'll go that high yet.


If you didn't hit it, I sure as hell won't either 😂 maybe I'll be ok with 6000 / 32 considering it's a c40 kit.. Do you have any go to tests that you like to do your stress tests on besides what I'm seeing in everyone's screenshots?


----------



## matique

morph. said:


> I've been unable to get 6200 stable even when loosening some of my primary timings or 1t to even post at 6000 on the z690 formula.
> 
> Suspect, I need more voltage than 1.5v but not sure I'll go that high yet.


You don't need 1.5V. I run mine fine at 1.45v, 6200c32 1T. Have you played with dram CLK yet? I found that helped stabilise it for me.


----------



## morph.

mattjirmanos said:


> If you didn't hit it, I sure as hell won't either 😂 maybe I'll be ok with 6000 / 32 considering it's a c40 kit.. Do you have any go to tests that you like to do your stress tests on besides what I'm seeing in everyone's screenshots?


pretty much just the usual stuff... It is still super early days so new bios iterations could possibly greatly help or people unlocking more of the unknowns with how to get DDR5 to work etc...


----------



## morph.

matique said:


> You don't need 1.5V. I run mine fine at 1.45v, 6200c32 1T. Have you played with dram CLK yet? I found that helped stabilise it for me.


You mean the 100:133 and 100:100? If so no real difference for me..

What board do you have if its an apex I can't compete or based on ur possible previous posts its the 2 dimm strix I? if so those are easier to overclock ram due to 2 less dimm slots.


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> For gskill 5600 36-36-36 1.2 kit
> 
> overnight memtest stable 6000c34 1.35 vddq 1.35 vdd, sa .9 or 1.0, mc 1.1
> overnight memtest stable 6000c32 1.39 vddq, 1.39vdd, sa 1.0 (didnt try stock), mc 1.1 (screen shot of 1 hour run with timings post 714).
> 
> For memtest stable ~1 hour (1st pic) 6200c32 1.49 vdd/vddq and 1.18mc (dont know if mc or vvd that high necessary as changed both same time), sa still 1.0
> 
> According to Anta777 earlier posts if go below jedec standards the value is ignored as I understood him, so in this run I left twr jedec min 48, trrds jedec min 8 which means tfaw 32 (4x trrds), RTP 12, tCWL 30 (tCL-2).
> 
> View attachment 2538924
> 
> 
> In second pic (below) I ignored jedec standards on 3 values, set twr 24, trrds 6, and ftaw 24 for comparison. I ran each read/write/copy/latency 20 times individually, same as pic above, recorded top 5 values for each and tried to leave each near best value of 20.
> --Lower twr/trrds/ftaw vs jedec twr/trrds/ftaw read and copy speeds were same comparing 20 runs each.
> --Write speed was consistently about 500mb/s faster with lower twr/trrds/ftaw
> --Latency was consistently 0.5ns to 0.7 ns lower by following jedec (higher set twr 48/trrds8/ftaw32)
> But this is one test, one speed, one sample, and not sure statistically significant....so unless multiple people test it....wont know anything. But have to do multiple runs of each to minimize variance error. As for stability, so far both will pass memtest an hour, but havent walked voltages down enough to see if any difference.
> View attachment 2538925


were you able to post with 1T?


----------



## oc22jirM

Damn, I actually was not stable as I thought on 6000/c32 Samsung profile. System ended up only posting in safemode and won't even run xmp1/xmp2 anymore. Most likely will end up keeping the 5600 c36 kit after all.


----------



## morph.

mattjirmanos said:


> Damn, I actually was not stable as I thought on 6000/c32 Samsung profile. System ended up only posting in safemode and won't even run xmp1/xmp2 anymore. Most likely will end up keeping the 5600 c36 kit after all.


u on the latest v0811 bios?


----------



## dante`afk

done with my 24/7 setting, perfect for browsing and youtubing, as I have no time for gaming


----------



## oc22jirM

morph. said:


> u on the latest v0811 bios?


Yeah the 0811 with enhanced ddr compatibility 😁.. No idea.. Still within the hero return period and I was considering an apex. Don't know if I want to shell out the extra money though.

Edit: going to keep tinkering to see how far I can push the 5600 c36 kit. It also can't handle either Samsung 6000 pre-made profile


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> were you able to post with 1T?


Only tried once via preset that didnt post. may play with it tomorrow if have time. But for 24/7 settled on 6000c32 2T 1.39vdd/vddq has been rock solid, memtest stable overnight, aida stable, gaming today without issues, so until new kits come out back to gaming.


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Only tried once via preset that didnt post. may play with it tomorrow if have time. But for 24/7 settled on 6000c32 2T 1.39vdd/vddq has been rock solid, memtest stable overnight, aida stable, gaming today without issues, so until new kits come out back to gaming.


so did you finally settle on the following jedec (higher set twr 48/trrds8/ftaw32) ?

sorry your attachment is very blurry


----------



## morph.

mattjirmanos said:


> Yeah the 0811 with enhanced ddr compatibility 😁.. No idea.. Still within the hero return period and I was considering an apex. Don't know if I want to shell out the extra money though.
> 
> Edit: going to keep tinkering to see how far I can push the 5600 c36 kit. It also can't handle either Samsung 6000 pre-made profile


you lowered the command rate to 2t, right? premade is 1t which seems fair few people are unable to post unless they have an apex. Between the hero and apex i'd go apex hands down.


----------



## oc22jirM

morph. said:


> you lowered the command rate to 2t, right? premade is 1t which seems fair few people are unable to post unless they have an apex. Between the hero and apex i'd go apex hands down.


I actually did not. I caught up on most of the thread but didn't spot that. Going to try this on both kits tonight as soon as I gdg back home and test them out! Thx for the suggestion


----------



## scum

Some testing with Kingston Fury 5200 C40


----------



## mattxx88

dante`afk said:


> done with my 24/7 setting, perfect for browsing and youtubing, as I have no time for gaming
> 
> View attachment 2539134


nice 
did u ended up using manual oc?


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Apex 0031 testing:
> 
> G.skill 6000c40 isn't stable with XMP in memorytesting. (a bit more "voltage" and it's stable, even up to 6400mhz xmp settings @ ~1,45v)
> 
> G.skill 6000c36 is stable with XMP
> 
> Almost the first time I loaded XMP for memory stability testing 😂 🤟





mattjirmanos said:


> Very nice work! I have the 5600 c36 currently but 6000 c40 on the way and I was debating returning the 6000 cl40 (z5) set becuase I saw some folks not having luck with the 6000/40 kit. I am wondering if I can achieve this on a maximus hero.


Thanks  Only one way to find out


----------



## oc22jirM

Carillo said:


> Thanks  Only one way to find out


Haha not going well so far. Have some more time to mess around with things tonight after some recommendations. Will see. How it goes, I'm also debating transferring to an apex


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Apex 0031 testing:
> 
> G.skill 6000c40 isn't stable with XMP in memorytesting. (a bit more "voltage" and it's stable, even up to 6400mhz xmp settings @ ~1,45v)
> 
> G.skill 6000c36 is stable with XMP
> 
> Almost the first time I loaded XMP for memory stability testing 😂 🤟


I must have missed a post somewhere - would you give us a D/L link for that BIOS?


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> I must have missed a post somewhere - would you give us a D/L link for that BIOS?


Here you go my friend 








ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0031.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## asdkj1740

inedenimadam said:


> Installed EK kit last night on the z5 600c36 kit. Can confirm, no thermal interface on the pmic. I was surprised the XMP profile isn't stable. 5800C34 is though. I haven't played much yet.
> View attachment 2539121


how do you guys tear the heatsink apart.....any trick???
can you also test bare stick with no heatsink, then put a fan on top??


----------



## dante`afk

mattxx88 said:


> nice
> did u ended up using manual oc?


yes, still using octvb tho, no matter what I did with robertos guide, I kept getting those random reboots.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

opt33 said:


> Only tried once via preset that didnt post. may play with it tomorrow if have time. But for 24/7 settled on 6000c32 2T 1.39vdd/vddq has been rock solid, memtest stable overnight, aida stable, gaming today without issues, so until new kits come out back to gaming.


F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS the ones your running?

I am desperately trying to get mine to run 6000mhz can you give me some examples of loose times to try and tighten up from because 40-40-40-76 1.3vdd/vddq is showing tRFC1 884, tRFC2 480, and tRFCSB 390.... using 2T and gear 2 can't even get 1 solid pass on memtest past 5600mhz


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> so did you finally settle on the following jedec (higher set twr 48/trrds8/ftaw32) ?
> 
> sorry your attachment is very blurry


Using twr 24 because write speeds consistently faster in aida6a, higher memory speed geekbench 4, and stability same, and further testing with latency think it is same between two. So clearly twr 24 isnt being ignored as if twr 48.

Im using trrds8/ftaw 32 because no improvement in any benchmark I tried vs trrds6/ftaw24 or trrds 4/ftaw16, could be some other limiting factor with my settings but only my settings im dealing with.

btw...just put 1T current settings, no train/no post. I dont want to be on the edge of stability, same reason I just sync all cores 51, leave everything on auto, cpu sp93 vid 1.39/1.4 for 5.1. I dont ever want to see CTD/bsod or any other issue once I have 24/7 settings.


----------



## opt33

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS the ones your running?
> 
> I am desperately trying to get mine to run 6000mhz can you give me some examples of loose times to try and tighten up from because 40-40-40-76 1.3vdd/vddq is showing tRFC1 884, tRFC2 480, and tRFCSB 390.... using 2T and gear 2 can't even get 1 solid pass on memtest past 5600mhz


Im using different kit 5600 36-36-36. I need 1.39 vdd/vddq (well 1.39 on at least 1 of the 2 since always raised together) for 6000c32. Never tried to boot 6000 with less than 1.37, let alone run memtest. 

What I would do is run 6000 36-36-36-72, leave everything else on auto, raise vdd/vddq until stable for 1 hour on memtest or anta, etc. Then try 34-36-36, etc. Once you have primary settings stable at voltage you are comfortable with, then work on secondary/tertiary.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

opt33 said:


> Im using different kit 5600 36-36-36. I need 1.39 vdd/vddq (well 1.39 on at least 1 of the 2 since always raised together) for 6000c32. Never tried to boot 6000 with less than 1.37, let alone run memtest.
> 
> What I would do is run 6000 36-36-36-72, leave everything else on auto, raise vdd/vddq until stable for 1 hour on memtest or anta, etc. Then try 34-36-36, etc. Once you have primary settings stable at voltage you are comfortable with, then work on secondary/tertiary.


Ok so don't put anything for the sub timings just the main ones? I probably need to get away from xmp it keeps trying to run the 4800mhz sub timings if I don't manually input my own.


----------



## opt33

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Ok so don't put anything for the sub timings just the main ones? I probably need to get away from xmp it keeps trying to run the 4800mhz sub timings if I don't manually input my own.


yeah, also if you cant get 6000 c40 stable, I would work on that first.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

opt33 said:


> yeah, also if you cant get 6000 c40 stable, I would work on that first.


That's my issue, I could careless about going faster than that I just want the advertised speed I bought.


----------



## roooo

Just as a reminder ... I have the 6000C36 kit and did not get it stable with the XMP profile on the Apex until I decreased SA from 1.20 to 1.00V, been running SA 0.95V without issues now for a couple of days. And - keep your temps in check, my sticks are becoming prone to errors not long after I cross the 50C mark.


----------



## morph.

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS the ones your running?
> 
> I am desperately trying to get mine to run 6000mhz can you give me some examples of loose times to try and tighten up from because 40-40-40-76 1.3vdd/vddq is showing tRFC1 884, tRFC2 480, and tRFCSB 390.... using 2T and gear 2 can't even get 1 solid pass on memtest past 5600mhz


what mobo & bios are u running if asus.


----------



## binned

Anyone have the T Force Delta RGB DDR5 6200/6400 MHz sticks and tried it on Asus Rog Strix Z690-F motherboards?

Can they run stable at stock?
And do they run stable XMP at 6200/6400?


----------



## Falkentyne

dante`afk said:


> yes, still using octvb tho, no matter what I did with robertos guide, I kept getting those random reboots.


Set digi vrm power phase control to auto?


----------



## matique

Should be done with my daily ram profile. Maybe want to increase ring cache. To stabilize ring I should increase CPU L2 voltage?


----------



## ssgwright

Here's mine stable at 6200... and here's 6400 which I thought was stable but through an error in testmem after 20 min.


----------



## ssgwright

anyone know how to get memtweakit to work in windows 11? I keep getting a driver won't load error


----------



## bscool

ssgwright said:


> anyone know how to get memtweakit to work in windows 11? I keep getting a driver won't load error


this one works for me win10 ot 11 MemTweakIt 20210910.zip

Source and more tools Z690 Bios and Tools


----------



## SuperMumrik

Samsung test, 6600 cl34. Btw, 0811 bios is better for high speed Samsung than 0031 @shamino1978. Thanks to @Carillo


----------



## morph.

ssgwright said:


> Here's mine stable at 6200... and here's 6400 which I thought was stable but through an error in testmem after 20 min.
> 
> View attachment 2539193
> 
> View attachment 2539194


what voltages did you use for 6200 and any specific tricks to get it to post? Ah I did notice u used the xmp primaries though.


----------



## ssgwright

morph. said:


> what voltages did you use for 6200 and any specific tricks to get it to post? Ah I did notice u used the xmp primaries though.


nothing specific, ram posts at stock volts up to 6600 but I can't get it stable over 6200 yet


----------



## morph.

ssgwright said:


> nothing specific, ram posts at stock volts up to 6600 but I can't get it stable over 6200 yet


ah okay, so your 6200 posts but basically on all stock xmp1 timings? BTW i'd probably have your uncore ratio(north bridge clock) set on auto while attempting to find the ram ceiling as this can cause stability issues, AFAIK 44x is pretty high if you have e-cores enabled.

I tried to get 6200 post on my tighter 6000 timings and it wouldn't have a bar of it.

My stable tighter 6000 timings AIDA64 (seems to pip a looser 6200) - (At the moment I'm trying to find the floor voltages for this so I can keep the temps nicely under control currently passed OCCT at 1.37v for VDD,VDDQ & TX VDDQ):


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Using twr 24 because write speeds consistently faster in aida6a, higher memory speed geekbench 4, and stability same, and further testing with latency think it is same between two. So clearly twr 24 isnt being ignored as if twr 48.
> 
> Im using trrds8/ftaw 32 because no improvement in any benchmark I tried vs trrds6/ftaw24 or trrds 4/ftaw16, could be some other limiting factor with my settings but only my settings im dealing with.
> 
> btw...just put 1T current settings, no train/no post. I dont want to be on the edge of stability, same reason I just sync all cores 51, leave everything on auto, cpu sp93 vid 1.39/1.4 for 5.1. I dont ever want to see CTD/bsod or any other issue once I have 24/7 settings.


Nice what did you end up going 6000 or 6200? can you share your timings/voltages if 6200 given a chance I might start working on 6200 once I have some time  Also as per my post above trying to find the floor voltages for 6000 at the moment heh. vddq seemed happy at 1.37v now on to 1.36v - scratch that 1.36vddq errored out pretty quickly. back yo 1.37v and now testing the mc voltage from 1.3 to 1.2v


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> Nice what did you end up going 6000 or 6200? can you share your timings/voltages if 6200 given a chance I might start working on 6200 once I have some time  Also as per my post above trying to find the floor voltages for 6000 at the moment heh. vddq seemed happy at 1.37v now on to 1.36v - scratch that 1.36vddq errored out pretty quickly. back yo 1.37v and now testing the mc voltage from 1.3 to 1.2v


Im using 6000c32 1.39vdd/vddq, 1.12 mc, stock sa for 24/7 which is memtest stable overnight, pic with current settings still havent decided on trrds/ftaw so went in middle. For 6200, same settings but need 1.49vdd/vddq, 1.12mc to run 1 hour memtest stable didnt test further since decided against higher voltage given relatively small gain.


----------



## opt33

delete, found the edit button after 1 year.


----------



## ssgwright

morph. said:


> ah okay, so your 6200 posts but basically on all stock xmp1 timings? BTW i'd probably have your uncore ratio(north bridge clock) set on auto while attempting to find the ram ceiling as this can cause stability issues, AFAIK 44x is pretty high if you have e-cores enabled.
> 
> I tried to get 6200 post on my tighter 6000 timings and it wouldn't have a bar of it.
> 
> My stable tighter 6000 timings AIDA64 (seems to pip a looser 6200) - (At the moment I'm trying to find the floor voltages for this so I can keep the temps nicely under control currently passed OCCT at 1.37v for VDD,VDDQ & TX VDDQ):
> View attachment 2539230


ok thanks I'll give it a try!


----------



## ssgwright

I was able to tighten up my timings a little by backing the uncore down to 4200

Any recommendations on ways to tighten up my timings?


----------



## matique

SuperMumrik said:


> Samsung test, 6600 cl34. Btw, 0811 bios is better for high speed Samsung than 0031 @shamino1978. Thanks to @Carillo
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539227


Yep fully agree that 0811 is way more stable for higher frequencies. But it's shame though my sticks just doesn't seem to like 6600. It boots but will have error 1 in absolut test. I can also stabilise 6400c32 2t, but have game instability despite passing memtest. 

6200c32 1t seems to be the best setting for me. Sub 53ns and fully stable in game.


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted at Korean OC thread. 6800Mhz-CL32
There are some stores offering OC service in Korea and this is done by the store.
The Ram is Team Group 6400 CL40 with Z690 Apex.

A couple of pics were posted, but the first pic is only high resolution.









[HCI 2000%]









[TM5]


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> OC result posted at Korean OC thread. 6800Mhz-CL32
> There are some stores offering OC service in Korea and this is done by the store.
> The Ram is Team Group 6400 CL40 with Z690 Apex.
> 
> A couple of pics were posted, but the first pic is only high resolution.
> View attachment 2539245
> 
> 
> [HCI 2000%]
> View attachment 2539246
> 
> 
> [TM5]
> View attachment 2539247


very bad cycle. looks like pretty aida but its as bad as xmp.


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> very bad cycle. looks like pretty aida but its as bad as xmp.


I know. I can't even tell the numbers because of low resolutions. It's definitely worse than my 6600 CL30 anyway.
But this is the first OC of Team Group over 6800 with Apex. I heard it has some compatible issues at the moment.
My friend who has the same ram can easily oc to 6933 CL30 with Unify X, but he can't OC the same ram over 6400 with his Apex.
I am sure the bios will solve the problem.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> I know. I can't even tell the numbers because of low resolutions. It's definitely worse than my 6600 CL30 anyway.
> But this is the first OC of Team Group over 6800 with Apex. I heard it has some compatible issues at the moment.
> My friend who has the same ram can easily oc to 6933 CL30 with Unify X, but he can't OC the same ram over 6400 with his Apex.
> I am sure the bios will solve the problem.


errr. @safedisk gone to new level 2T on hynix. 

so again not a board/bios problem for hynix.


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> errr. @safedisk gone to new level 2T on hynix.
> 
> so again not a board/bios problem for hynix.


My friend also has Hynix 4800 CL40 and he has no problem oc it to 6800 CL32 with Apex.
His problem is with Team Group 6400 CL40 Hynix. Maybe he is doing something wrong.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend also has Hynix 4800 CL40 and he has no problem oc it to 6800 CL32 with Apex.
> His problem is with Team Group 6400 CL40 Hynix. Maybe he is doing something wrong.


hmm seems like team group did something then.

cause i have seen him do easily high clock 1T/2T with value ram


----------



## SoldierRBT

sugi0lover said:


> My friend also has Hynix 4800 CL40 and he has no problem oc it to 6800 CL32 with Apex.
> His problem is with Team Group 6400 CL40 Hynix. Maybe he is doing something wrong.


I know a few people having issues stabilizing OC with Team Group kits (myself included) on the Apex. Above 6400 seems to be hit or miss on every reboot. Not sure if it has something to do with the PMIC which is Richtek.


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> I know a few people having issues stabilizing OC with Team Group kits (myself included) on the Apex. Above 6400 seems to be hit or miss on every reboot. Not sure if it has something to do with the PMIC which is Richtek.


Guess it should be called Poortek, then.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> I know a few people having issues stabilizing OC with Team Group kits (myself included) on the Apex. Above 6400 seems to be hit or miss on every reboot. Not sure if it has something to do with the PMIC which is Richtek.


my stick one is richtek.

are u guys even stable on 6400.. since u require dram clk preset 5k+ xmp


----------



## SoldierRBT

cstkl1 said:


> my stick one is richtek.
> 
> are u guys even stable on 6400.. since u require dram clk preset 5k+ xmp


TM5, Karhu and GSAT stable 1h+. Next reboot unstable. Some people can't even boot 6400C40 Team group XMP


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> TM5, Karhu and GSAT stable 1h+. Next reboot unstable. Some people can't even boot 6400C40 Team group XMP


dram clk shouldnt have a stabilizing effect on that main timing/frequency especially on 6400. 

i suspect something off with the math logic between third/2nd sub


----------



## matique

cstkl1 said:


> dram clk shouldnt have a stabilizing effect on that main timing/frequency especially on 6400.
> 
> i suspect something off with the math logic between third/2nd sub


Should it have a stabilizing effect on 6200 samsung? I can replicate an error easily by putting dramclk at 70 = errors in tm5, dramclk at 73 = no errors. After some point I just stop questioning and go with what works.


----------



## cstkl1

matique said:


> Should it have a stabilizing effect on 6200 samsung? I can replicate an error easily by putting dramclk at 70 = errors in tm5, dramclk at 73 = no errors. After some point I just stop questioning and go with what works.


dram clk are asus presets for a given frequency
initially we did see on high clock some presets 6666> were useful but after better tuned bios.. there was no need

its odd 6400 cannot run auto = 83 for hynix
to me it looks like forcing a ram timing

samsung hmm. is this on a certain ram timing logic on second/third that u copied trying to force to run or a timing you came up yourself??


----------



## matique

cstkl1 said:


> dram clk are asus presets for a given frequency
> initially we did see on high clock some presets 6666> were useful but after better tuned bios.. there was no need
> 
> its odd 6400 cannot run auto = 83 for hynix
> to me it looks like forcing a ram timing
> 
> samsung hmm. is this on a certain ram timing logic on second/third that u copied trying to force to run or a timing you came up yourself??


Did all the timings myself as early on there wasn't much people who had Samsung ram. Just followed the integral ddr4 guide on the order of things to adjust, and proceeded to do speed > primaries > some secondaries > tertiaries > confirmed secondaries. Did 1usmus tm5 in between and then absolut towards the end, 3 cycles followed by karhu.

Edit: actually tertiaries I saw some suggest you could tighten them to 0/1 so followed that advice too. Here's a link to my timings









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


so did you finally settle on the following jedec (higher set twr 48/trrds8/ftaw32) ? sorry your attachment is very blurry Using twr 24 because write speeds consistently faster in aida6a, higher memory speed geekbench 4, and stability same, and further testing with latency think it is same...




www.overclock.net


----------



## cstkl1

matique said:


> Did all the timings myself as early on there wasn't much people who had Samsung ram. Just followed the integral ddr4 guide on the order of things to adjust, and proceeded to do speed > primaries > some secondaries > tertiaries > confirmed secondaries. Did 1usmus tm5 in between and then absolut towards the end, 3 cycles followed by karhu.
> 
> Edit: actually tertiaries I saw some suggest you could tighten them to 0/1 so followed that advice too. Here's a link to my timings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> so did you finally settle on the following jedec (higher set twr 48/trrds8/ftaw32) ? sorry your attachment is very blurry Using twr 24 because write speeds consistently faster in aida6a, higher memory speed geekbench 4, and stability same, and further testing with latency think it is same...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


i wouldnt run them 0/1 on dd/dr.
think posted this back on cml when testing fft112 avx off. but if it works it works.

now trying to understand y dram clk a factor for some kit/cpu combi


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> i wouldnt run them 0/1 on dd/dr.
> think posted this back on cml when testing fft112 avx off. but if it works it works.
> 
> now trying to understand y dram clk a factor for some kit/cpu combi


Btw, if you set Dr/dd to anything 4 or less, it is automatically changed to 4 by the MRC during training. This can be seen in XTU. So whether someone sets these to 0 or 1 doesn't matter. The same happens to cke at 4 or lower.

Testing dram clk on 806, there isn't any difference between auto and what I set at 66 interms of stability. On 802, there was quite a difference for me. If auto is infact 83 on auto, the background timings that change are xsdll (it is loosened on auto) and cpded (this is also loosened on auto).


----------



## roooo

opt33 said:


> delete, found the edit button after 1 year.


Happy to read your search eventually was successful. Did you eat during that long time?


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> hmm seems like team group did something then.
> 
> cause i have seen him do easily high clock 1T/2T with value ram


Assuming you mean the Kingston value sticks - is there any indication to tell the Hynix ones from the normal sticks without having to look at the chips? Like a different product code or such?


----------



## matique

jomama22 said:


> Btw, if you set Dr/dd to anything 4 or less, it is automatically changed to 4 by the MRC during training. This can be seen in XTU. So whether someone sets these to 0 or 1 doesn't matter. The same happens to cke at 4 or lower.
> 
> Testing dram clk on 806, there isn't any difference between auto and what I set at 66 interms of stability. On 802, there was quite a difference for me. If auto is infact 83 on auto, the background timings that change are xsdll (it is loosened on auto) and cpded (this is also loosened on auto).


Ah alright, I'll change em back to 4 then since it doesn't matter. 

I do find the issue of ram retraining randomly even with mrc on though. I've disable mch to see if that helps.


----------



## cstkl1

matique said:


> Ah alright, I'll change em back to 4 then since it doesn't matter.
> 
> I do find the issue of ram retraining randomly even with mrc on though. I've disable mch to see if that helps.


mch full check has been broken during rkl so i wouldnt bother using on adl


----------



## sugi0lover

OC posted at Korean PC thread 

6800 30-40-40-30 2T with Hynix 4800 CL40 ram sticks
SA1.25 / Mc 1.3 / VDD 1.6 / VDDQ 1.55
Hwinfo ran after HCI


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Insights into DDR5 Sub-timings and Latencies







www.anandtech.com





Where can I get memtweak it for hero z690 anyone know?

I can't even get my F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS samsung to post at stock xmp


----------



## illegalwater

So, is 5600 is the limit with Micron chips? I tried 6000 and 6400 and it wouldn't boot even with very loose timings.


----------



## inedenimadam

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Insights into DDR5 Sub-timings and Latencies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.anandtech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where can I get memtweak it for hero z690 anyone know?
> 
> I can't even get my F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS samsung to post at stock xmp


There seems to be something up with these kits. I can't get mine stable at XMP settings either. Mine is the same kit, but C36. I gave up, and will try again after we get a bios revision.


----------



## Nizzen

illegalwater said:


> So, is 5600 is the limit with Micron chips? I tried 6000 and 6400 and it wouldn't boot even with very loose timings.


Yes, it's garbage 🤣

My dominator 5200 was max 5400. Barly stable...


----------



## stn1

Micron caps out either at 5400 or 5600. It does scale with voltage quite a bit so i recommend just yetting it with vddq>vdd 50mv, putting a fan on and tightening 5400 c32/c34


----------



## D-EJ915

My dominator 4800c34 "works fine" with the 5400c34 profile but not the 5200c32 and my 5200c38 xpgs don't work with either. Went ahead and found a decent price on 6000c36 gskills on ebay so have those coming, should put the xpgs up for sale.

"works fine" = passes ff14 bench which is only thing I've ran on it so far lol, not had much time for benching or testing.


----------



## biigshow666

would like the forum's opinion on this

i currently have corsair 5200 c38 running at 5600c36. I have found gskill 6000mhz at c36 available. Is this worth the hassle to upgrade for primarily for games and some o365 use? and how much further are these kits able to push.


F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S


----------



## Nizzen

biigshow666 said:


> would like the forum's opinion on this
> 
> i currently have corsair 5200 c38 running at 5600c36. I have found gskill 6000mhz at c36 available. Is this worth the hassle to upgrade for primarily for games and some o365 use? and how much further are these kits able to push.
> 
> 
> F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S


Worth! 
6600c32 doable with good cooling. ~ 1.5-1.55v


----------



## biigshow666

Nizzen said:


> Worth!
> 6600c32 doable with good cooling. ~ 1.5-1.55v


ok that sounds good. corsair granted approval on my RMA rma request and it is only a 170 cad difference. I also purchased the ram cooler that falk recommended.


----------



## biigshow666

kaTus said:


> Yeah i know, but i wanted to be sure if its all cores.
> I am mostly looking for scores with daily OC like 5.2/5.3GHz allcores


5.2ac 40e 43ring micron5600c36


----------



## Nizzen

Msi x result from thailand


----------



## Benni231990

not bad 6800 but my 6200 are faster with cl34 timing so timings are better than speed i guess?

and you see samsung chips absolute potato when i see the sk hynix guys here with 6600+ they have alle over 100k read/write/copy










not so bad for my sp83 CPU allcore 5.1 | E 4.1 | Cache 4.3


----------



## morph.

biigshow666 said:


> 5.2ac 40e 43ring micron5600c36
> View attachment 2539343





Benni231990 said:


> not bad 6800 but my 6200 are faster with cl34 timing so timings are better than speed i guess?
> 
> and you see samsung chips absolute potato when i see the sk hynix guys here with 6600+ they have alle over 100k read/write/copy
> 
> View attachment 2539363
> 
> 
> not so bad for my sp83 CPU allcore 5.1 | E 4.1 | Cache 4.3


I'll raise you but @sugi0lover is higher hehe









I scored 22 747 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## biigshow666

morph. said:


> I'll raise you but @sugi0lover is higher hehe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 22 747 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


damn i have some work to do. we shall see next week how the new ram compares. my 3090 is a dud bouncing off of power limits capped at 400w, but it was the only thing available Nov 2020.


----------



## Benni231990

@morph. 

yout strix make over 2100 hehe xD and your cpu holyshit out of my league


----------



## adna

illegalwater said:


> So, is 5600 is the limit with Micron chips? I tried 6000 and 6400 and it wouldn't boot even with very loose timings.


if want to see Micron chip @ 6000MHz. (same i want) 
in my case. it can boot and use join web/forums.,.. but, can't pass tm5 with no errors
ps. [email protected] | [email protected] | [email protected] my set seem stable


----------



## morph.

Benni231990 said:


> @morph.
> 
> yout strix make over 2100 hehe xD and your cpu holyshit out of my league


Only a sp84 and I still haven’t fully optimised the CPU OC yet probably a bit more room to go gonna try for that illusive 23k in timespy but it summer here in Australia at the moment.


----------



## stn1

adna said:


> if want to see Micron chip @ 6000MHz. (same i want)
> in my case. it can boot and use join web/forums.,.. but, can't pass tm5 with no errors
> ps. [email protected] | [email protected] | [email protected] my set seem stable


With how much voltage my ram needs its hard to believe you can boot with these voltages. You have some binned micron right there xD


----------



## biigshow666

stn1 said:


> With how much voltage my ram needs its hard to believe you can boot with these voltages. You have some binned micron right there xD


adna has some golden chips. i tried the settings provided and could not post! Falk's setup has me stable at 5600c36 whihc is decent for low 6x.x ns latency.


----------



## adna

biigshow666 said:


> adna has some golden chips. i tried the settings provided and could not post! Falk's setup has me stable at 5600c36 whihc is decent for low 6x.x ns latency.


I was frustrated that I couldn't buy Hynix and Samsung earlier.
But when i test. I feel a bit better with the RAM I have. Can be used stably at 5800 and can also boot up to 6000 without being difficult
Thanks Shamino for the bios. 0811(My case. Set pmic=auto with bios 0811 If other settings are correct, it will not be difficult to boot)

I'm currently using 5800. it stable for me
but i try to switch to 6000 sometimes. i hope. next bios will help test TM5. pass

[email protected]
[email protected]
sa | vdd | vddq | txvddq | mc = 0.9v | 1.4v | 1.4v | 1.1v | 1.11v
high voltage mode = auto | pmic = auto
ps. @5800-34-40-40-46 can't pass


----------



## CptSpig

24/7 Daily Memory OC G.Skill: 2 X F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K @ 6000 1.4 VDD / VDDQ. Asus Z960 Apex 12900K 5.5 OC


----------



## mattxx88

adna said:


> I was frustrated that I couldn't buy Hynix and Samsung earlier.
> But when i test. I feel a bit better with the RAM I have. Can be used stably at 5800 and can also boot up to 6000 without being difficult
> Thanks Shamino for the bios. 0811(My case. Set pmic=auto with bios 0811 If other settings are correct, it will not be difficult to boot)
> 
> I'm currently using 5800. it stable for me
> but i try to switch to 6000 sometimes. i hope. next bios will help test TM5. pass
> 
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> sa | vdd | vddq | txvddq | mc = 0.9v | 1.4v | 1.4v | 1.1v | 1.11v
> high voltage mode = auto | pmic = auto
> ps. @5800-34-40-40-46 can't pass
> View attachment 2539456
> View attachment 2539457


You could try rising vdd/q above 1.5v to make them stable.
I see many hynix Samsung kit running 1.6v, micron can't?


----------



## warbucks

I managed to snag a kit of GSkill DDR5, F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S. It arrived a couple days ago and I slapped it into my APEX with a 12900k (SP86). Looking to see how far this kit will go.


----------



## biigshow666

CptSpig said:


> 24/7 Daily Memory OC G.Skill: 2 X F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K @ 6000 1.4 VDD / VDDQ. Asus Z960 Apex 12900K 5.5 OC
> View attachment 2539458
> View attachment 2539458





warbucks said:


> I managed to snag a kit of GSkill DDR5, F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S. It arrived a couple days ago and I slapped it into my APEX with a 12900k (SP86). Looking to see how far this kit will go.


i purchased the same kit yesterday from Newegg. interested to see how you fare with it. my SP score is 87 as well.


----------



## ssgwright

finally got mine stable at 6400.. now I need to work on tightening


----------



## sblantipodi

I know that this may sound stupid, but I have an Asus Maximus Extreme with two kits of 2x16GB Corsair Dominator 5600MHz C36 for a total of 64GB on four banks. Samsung memory.

Is there someone who can help me get a stable 4800MHz please?
I can't pass a full memtest at 4.8GHz, I can do it at 4.4GHz.


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> I know that this may sound stupid, but I have an Asus Maximus Extreme with two kits of 2x16GB Corsair Dominator 5600MHz C36 for a total of 64GB on four banks. Samsung memory.
> 
> Is there someone who can help me get a stable 4800MHz please?
> I can't pass a full memtest at 4.8GHz, I can do it at 4.4GHz.


Try 1.4+ vccsa?


----------



## asdkj1740

is 1.45v imc/mc/vdd2 cpu too high for 24/7?




ssgwright said:


> finally got mine stable at 6400.. now I need to work on tightening
> 
> View attachment 2539480


it is good to see more 4dimm mobo getting higher and higher!



sblantipodi said:


> I know that this may sound stupid, but I have an Asus Maximus Extreme with two kits of 2x16GB Corsair Dominator 5600MHz C36 for a total of 64GB on four banks. Samsung memory.
> 
> Is there someone who can help me get a stable 4800MHz please?
> I can't pass a full memtest at 4.8GHz, I can do it at 4.4GHz.


yours is samung sticks and currently on gigabyte and asrock have it listed into their qvl. 
have you tried the latest beta bios yet?


----------



## morph.

sblantipodi said:


> I know that this may sound stupid, but I have an Asus Maximus Extreme with two kits of 2x16GB Corsair Dominator 5600MHz C36 for a total of 64GB on four banks. Samsung memory.
> 
> Is there someone who can help me get a stable 4800MHz please?
> I can't pass a full memtest at 4.8GHz, I can do it at 4.4GHz.


Bios version?
Uncore ratio?
Cpu / e core oc?
Voltages tried ?


----------



## ssgwright

what sub timmings would you guys say have the most impact to performance? for example I noticed dropping my Trfc from stock 911 to 620 had a huge impact on performance (tried 480 but it wasn't stable).

There's too many for me to mess with and ensure stability but if there's just a handful that you guys recommend tweaking please let me know.


----------



## morph.

CptSpig said:


> 24/7 Daily Memory OC G.Skill: 2 X F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K @ 6000 1.4 VDD / VDDQ. Asus Z960 Apex 12900K 5.5 OC
> View attachment 2539458
> View attachment 2539458


The timings looks like the loaded asus Samsung memory profile other than voltages.

what cooling on the dimms you running max temp looks nice and low


----------



## morph.

ssgwright said:


> what sub timmings would you guys say have the most impact to performance? for example I noticed dropping my Trfc from stock 911 to 620 had a huge impact on performance (tried 480 but it wasn't stable).
> 
> There's too many for me to mess with and ensure stability but if there's just a handful that you guys recommend tweaking please let me know.


Unfortunately, they all have an impact on either bandwidth or latency. Eg me running 6000 c32 with secondary and tertiaries all moderately tightened performs like your current 6400 unoptimised (read slower 1,200MB/s but write, copy and latency mine performs better), you should find there is a lot more you can extract out if you take the time in tightening your secondaries and terts.

Here is a really decent DDR4 introductory guide on overclocking with a lot of the methodologies that still seem to work for ddr5 other than some areas of unknowns with DDR5. MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper

There still are ways to go for me but this is my locked in 24/7 stable profile but there's still a bit of room to move IMHO on my secondary/tertiary timings just need some time to do each group and test... I could probably get read to 100,000MB/s @6000mhz and perhaps lower the latency to around 53-54ns.










I've seen alot of people breaking the typical tRAS rule of tRP+tRCD, I could probably lower this final primary down a little or maybe even tRCD/tRP which I haven't tried lowering from 35 yet. Unfortunately, CR 1 is just not possible for me unless there is some magic setting I'm missing and CL 30 seems a bit too ambitious for my air cooling and voltages I'm trying to hold the memory at.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

inedenimadam said:


> There seems to be something up with these kits. I can't get mine stable at XMP settings either. Mine is the same kit, but C36. I gave up, and will try again after we get a bios revision.


Try using offset mode on system agent .4 has been getting me good memtest results on t1 rate up to 5800mhz.


----------



## inedenimadam

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Try using offset mode on system agent .4 has been getting me good memtest results on t1 rate up to 5800mhz.


thanks for the suggestion.
I managed to get my kit straightened out. I reflashed the 811 asus bios, and for whatever reason, it just works despite being the same bios. The samsung OC profile is working 6000 32-35-35-53.


----------



## Falkentyne

adna said:


> I was frustrated that I couldn't buy Hynix and Samsung earlier.
> But when i test. I feel a bit better with the RAM I have. Can be used stably at 5800 and can also boot up to 6000 without being difficult
> Thanks Shamino for the bios. 0811(My case. Set pmic=auto with bios 0811 If other settings are correct, it will not be difficult to boot)
> 
> I'm currently using 5800. it stable for me
> but i try to switch to 6000 sometimes. i hope. next bios will help test TM5. pass
> 
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> sa | vdd | vddq | txvddq | mc = 0.9v | 1.4v | 1.4v | 1.1v | 1.11v
> high voltage mode = auto | pmic = auto
> ps. @5800-34-40-40-46 can't pass
> View attachment 2539456
> View attachment 2539457


I can't test this until after my chess tournament  I'm in Las Vegas right now running Stockfish on a 7820HK MSI laptop that pushes 88C at 4.5 ghz with a super slow 7200 KN/S calculation hashrate (
Just to show you how slow that is, Stockfish at 5.1 ghz/4.1 E cores/3.8 cache and 5600 mhz CL36/something/something/48 Micron DDR5 pushes 31,000 KN/S there.

Oh well.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ram OC posted at Korean PC forum.

6933 30-40-40-30-2T with Hynix 4800 CL40
Bios Ver 0053 / VDD: 1.66v / VDDQ: 1.55v










[Edit]
Hs is also working on 7000 CL32 with Hynix 4800 CL40 kit.


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> I can't test this until after my chess tournament  I'm in Las Vegas right now running Stockfish on a 7820HK MSI laptop that pushes 88C at 4.5 ghz with a super slow 7200 KN/S calculation hashrate (
> Just to show you how slow that is, Stockfish at 5.1 ghz/4.1 E cores/3.8 cache and 5600 mhz CL36/something/something/48 Micron DDR5 pushes 31,000 KN/S there.
> 
> Oh well.


How about leaving your machine running at home and use remote access to run your Stockfish sessions via SSH/VPN? Anyway - good luck for the tournament! ;-)


----------



## neurokirurgi

I finally managed to scrape something together that should work for daily. 6200 34-36-36-56 on Samsung ICs










Despite the above picture showing VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ at 1.400v, I had to raise them to 1.435v to be stable in y-cruncher. I think I'm going to run y-cruncher from now on as my primary stability checking tool, it's better written software, has proper logging, looks better (=easy to glance from a distance whether or not it has produced an error), and it catches instabilities that both TM5 and Karhu don't. But I digress.

MC = 1.3v (1.25v is an instant error fiesta in TM5)
SA = 0.9v (it's stable, so why not)










I might try tighter primaries next, but I don't think there's a lot of potential there as tCL = 32 requires too much voltage for my liking. I haven't tried tRCD & tRP = 35 yet but the difference is going to be inconsequential, and tRAS = 52 produces random errors in both TM5 and y-cruncher. I might give 34-35-35-54 a try, but if it's not stable, I'm not going to bother chasing it. I've done enough of that nonsense with these awful Samsung sticks in the past few days already.

Now just waiting for future BIOS updates that might help with getting higher frequencies stable. Maybe I can finally play some goddamn games now.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

neurokirurgi said:


> I finally managed to scrape something together that should work for daily. 6200 34-36-36-56 on Samsung ICs
> 
> View attachment 2539543
> 
> 
> Despite the above picture showing VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ at 1.400v, I had to raise them to 1.435v to be stable in y-cruncher. I think I'm going to run y-cruncher from now on as my primary stability checking tool, it's better written software, has proper logging, looks better (=easy to glance from a distance whether or not it has produced an error), and it catches instabilities that both TM5 and Karhu don't. But I digress.
> 
> MC = 1.3v (1.25v is an instant error fiesta in TM5)
> SA = 0.9v (it's stable, so why not)
> 
> View attachment 2539544
> 
> 
> I might try tighter primaries next, but I don't think there's a lot of potential there as tCL = 32 requires too much voltage for my liking. I haven't tried tRCD & tRP = 35 yet but the difference is going to be inconsequential, and tRAS = 52 produces random errors in both TM5 and y-cruncher. I might give 34-35-35-54 a try, but if it's not stable, I'm not going to bother chasing it. I've done enough of that nonsense with these awful Samsung sticks in the past few days already.
> 
> Now just waiting for future BIOS updates that might help with getting higher frequencies stable. Maybe I can finally play some goddamn games now.


You have active cooling on your ram ? If not try putting 1 120mm noctua or silent wings 3. The results will impress you


----------



## neurokirurgi

Streamroller said:


> You have active cooling on your ram ? If not try putting 1 120mm noctua or silent wings 3. The results will impress you


Yes, I have an Alseye ram fan (2x60mm) over these sticks. But as I’m looking for daily settings, I had them running on a fairly silent fan curve.


----------



## Nizzen

Testing some more g.skill 6000c36. Looks abit more powerhungry than my first 6000c40 kit.
This is the lowest "volt" on the dimm's that are stable on this settings. Stock cpu.

















Looks like 6000mhz *1T* is easy enough for most kits. 6200+ and the voltage is going stright up to heaven 😅 🤟


----------



## biigshow666

Nizzen said:


> Testing some more g.skill 6000c36. Looks abit more powerhungry than my first 6000c40 kit.
> This is the lowest "volt" on the dimm's that are stable on this settings. Stock cpu.
> View attachment 2539557
> 
> View attachment 2539558
> 
> 
> Looks like 6000mhz *1T* is easy enough for most kits. 6200+ and the voltage is going stright up to heaven 😅 🤟


nice work. I will attempt this when my kit arrives sometime soon.


----------



## opt33

Looks like 2 mem slot asus boards like apex were way to go for 1T, my hero wont train 1T even with loose settings/higher volts. Best latency I could get with 6000c32 2T 1.41vdd/ddq 1.14mc, 1.0 sa.


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Testing some more g.skill 6000c36. Looks abit more powerhungry than my first 6000c40 kit.
> 
> This is the lowest "volt" on the dimm's that are stable on this settings. Stock cpu.
> 
> 
> Looks like 6000mhz 1T is easy enough for most kits. 6200+ and the voltage is going stright up to heaven 😅 🤟


How much difference was there using the 6000C40 kit? Was that kit using less voltage for the same memory timings? Looks like those timings were Asus preloaded? I have the 6000C40 kit and wondering if I could run this as well. Thanks!


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> How much difference was there using the 6000C40 kit? Was that kit using less voltage for the same memory timings? Looks like those timings were Asus preloaded? I have the 6000C40 kit and wondering if I could run this as well. Thanks!


About 0.03v lower vdd/vvqd on 6kc40.
The lottery is real 😆.
Looks like g.skill 5600c36 is about the same bin too.

Apex is allways worth it in my opinion. Everything is more easy


----------



## Bakerman

Nizzen said:


> About 0.03v lower vdd/vvqd on 6kc40.
> The lottery is real 😆.
> Looks like g.skill 5600c36 is about the same bin too.
> 
> Apex is allways worth it in my opinion. Everything is more easy


So just for RAM stability sake, would you pick Apex over Extreme? Not sure which way to go as I like bling on the Extreme.


----------



## Nizzen

Bakerman said:


> So just for RAM stability sake, would you pick up Apex over Extreme? Not sure which way to go as I like bling on the Extreme.


Apex every season. I haven't found any reason not buying Apex. That's reason enough. 
Memory OC looks to be more important every year for performance. That's where Apex shines. Apex allways get all the love bios vice too...


----------



## opt33

+1 on apex, next time ill know to buy apex, only ~$100 more than hero anyways. Im guessing memory presets in hero bios are from testing on apex, they are in 1T and havent seen anyone even boot in 1T on hero or other 4 mem slot board. Hero wont train either mem kit I have 1T at stock 4800 with high volts, let alone 6000. Once higher ram speeds available, if hero lags behind apex too far will switch then or when alder lake successor released.


----------



## stn1

neurokirurgi said:


> I think I'm going to run y-cruncher from now on as my primary stability checking tool, it's better written software, has proper logging, looks better (=easy to glance from a distance whether or not it has produced an error), and it catches instabilities that both TM5 and Karhu don't.


And it may easily miss instabilities that Karhu or TM5 find in 5 minutes. Test all three. Extreme/Absolut + Karhu 10000% + ycruncher n32
This is everything my garbage micron can. 1.55/1.5v is not enough to stabilize 5600. 

TWR below 48 doesn't give any performance benefit. It's likely just being ignored since Jedec spec blah blah blah minimum twr 48. Above 48 is needed for higher frequencies (6600+)


----------



## jomama22

stn1 said:


> And it may easily miss instabilities that Karhu or TM5 find in 5 minutes. Test all three. Extreme/Absolut + Karhu 10000% + ycruncher n32
> This is everything my garbage micron can. 1.55/1.5v is not enough to stabilize 5600.
> 
> TWR below 48 doesn't give any performance benefit. It's likely just being ignored since Jedec spec blah blah blah minimum twr 48. Above 48 is needed for higher frequencies (6600+)
> 
> View attachment 2539597


Below 48 tWR isn't being ignored, it's just not an existing register in the imc. Asus will adjust wrpden and wrpre accordingly to what you put into tWR. It has already been shown that lowering twr will raise write bandwidth, so it is indeed doing something.


----------



## AdamK47

I've been running at an all PCore 5GHz and all ECore 4GHz. The Uncore @ 4GHz and the memory at 6000 36-36-36-76.

I decided to try out a 125MHz base clock since all of these frequencies are evenly divisible by 125. I set the PCore multiplier to 40, ECore to 32, Ring to 32, and memory to 48.

Well, well, well... what the heck is going on here?


----------



## Nizzen

AdamK47 said:


> I've been running at an all PCore 5GHz and all ECore 4GHz. The Uncore @ 4GHz and the memory at 6000 36-36-36-76.
> 
> I decided to try out a 125MHz base clock since all of these frequencies are evenly divisible by 125. I set the PCore multiplier to 40, ECore to 32, Ring to 32, and memory to 48.
> 
> Well, well, well... what the heck is going on here?


Software bug...


----------



## AdamK47

I would cast doubt on the legitimacy of all AIDA64 memory scores if they are being skewed by some internal multiplier/base clock reporting shenanigans.


----------



## neurokirurgi

AdamK47 said:


> I would cast doubt on the legitimacy of all AIDA64 memory scores if they are being skewed by some internal multiplier/base clock reporting shenanigans.


Aida is honestly a pretty crappy benchmark. Never mind the technical issues it has with BCLK overclocks, the latency metric it presents is misleading at best. There's more to RAM performance than first word latency and simple bandwidth figures. There's tons of obscure timings that bring a big improvement to Aida latency but which don't really do anything in real workloads.

The reason people (myself included) use it is because it's been grandfathered in by now. People have been using it for so long that they know from a glance what a good score looks like.

I wish people would use something better for gauging memory performance, but getting people to move over to something else is always going to be a slow process.


----------



## AdamK47

The entirety of AIDA64 related memory performance tests on this forum are suspect. AIDA64 cannot be trusted. It's lazy coding. The results are not indicative of actual speed if it has to be flubbed with some deceptive coding by the developers.


----------



## jomama22

neurokirurgi said:


> Aida is honestly a pretty crappy benchmark. Never mind the technical issues it has with BCLK overclocks, the latency metric it presents is misleading at best. There's more to RAM performance than first word latency and simple bandwidth figures. There's tons of obscure timings that bring a big improvement to Aida latency but which don't really do anything in real workloads.
> 
> The reason people (myself included) use it is because it's been grandfathered in by now. People have been using it for so long that they know from a glance what a good score looks like.
> 
> I wish people would use something better for gauging memory performance, but getting people to move over to something else is always going to be a slow process.


Time to complete memory stress tests, whether time per cycle or cycles per hour, will give you a good idea if a timing change made a difference that can be perceived. 

Can also use superPI or others like it. But again, this is for your own comparison, comparing to others will be difficult unless a specifc config is given


----------



## sugi0lover

AdamK47 said:


> I've been running at an all PCore 5GHz and all ECore 4GHz. The Uncore @ 4GHz and the memory at 6000 36-36-36-76.
> 
> I decided to try out a 125MHz base clock since all of these frequencies are evenly divisible by 125. I set the PCore multiplier to 40, ECore to 32, Ring to 32, and memory to 48.
> 
> Well, well, well... what the heck is going on here?


Bclk OC makes AIDA64 bench a lot better than it actually is. Check my result when bclk 200. a bug~


----------



## Nizzen

AdamK47 said:


> The entirety of AIDA64 related memory performance tests on this forum are suspect. AIDA64 cannot be trusted. It's lazy coding. The results are not indicative of actual speed if it has to be flubbed with some deceptive coding by the developers.


Aida is benchmarking Aida  

It is what it is. Nice tool when overclocking memory. Nothing more


----------



## AdamK47

sugi0lover said:


> Bclk OC makes AIDA64 bench a lot better than it actually is. Check my result when bclk 200. a bug~
> View attachment 2539633


A bug is unintentional. This looks intentional with scores being calculated based off of the base clock. The scores should be calculated on only one thing, actual memory throughput.


----------



## sugi0lover

AdamK47 said:


> A bug is unintentional. This looks intentional with scores being calculated based off of the base clock. The scores should be calculated on only one thing, actual memory throughput.


Yes, I also didn't know bclk oc made the bench better. Someone told me, so I tested and shared it here a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## stn1

jomama22 said:


> Below 48 tWR isn't being ignored, it's just not an existing register in the imc. Asus will adjust wrpden and wrpre accordingly to what you put into tWR. It has already been shown that lowering twr will raise write bandwidth, so it is indeed doing something.


Write difference in aida? Because i tested in mlc, gb3 and yc and there is no noticable performance difference.


----------



## matique

Benni231990 said:


> not bad 6800 but my 6200 are faster with cl34 timing so timings are better than speed i guess?
> 
> and you see samsung chips absolute potato when i see the sk hynix guys here with 6600+ they have alle over 100k read/write/copy
> 
> View attachment 2539363
> 
> 
> not so bad for my sp83 CPU allcore 5.1 | E 4.1 | Cache 4.3


As long as your minimum all core is above 5.1 You should be able to hit 22k easily. 12900k SP84 + samsung 5600c32 base. 

5.2p | 4.1e | 4.0 ring | HT on | 6000c32 CR1








Result not found







www.3dmark.com





5.2p | 4.1e | 4.0 ring | HT on | 6400c32 CR1








Result not found







www.3dmark.com


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> Testing some more g.skill 6000c36. Looks abit more powerhungry than my first 6000c40 kit.
> This is the lowest "volt" on the dimm's that are stable on this settings. Stock cpu.
> View attachment 2539557
> 
> View attachment 2539558
> 
> 
> Looks like 6000mhz *1T* is easy enough for most kits. 6200+ and the voltage is going stright up to heaven 😅 🤟


Hrmm 1T doesn't seem too different to 2T these days... at least from a AIDA perspective...


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> Hrmm 1T doesn't seem too different to 2T these days... at least from a AIDA perspective...
> 
> View attachment 2539650


I'm tweaking for best possible gaming performance. Try the difference in cpubound games, if you have time


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> I'm tweaking for best possible gaming performance. Try the difference in cpubound games, if you have time


I’ve tried getting 1T to post with no luck on my board unfortunately. I expected the latency difference should of been abit larger though with 1t vs 2t.

Just did TXP/PPD and lowered trfc to 410 from 450 and got this... PB with latency for me with 6000mhz for now.


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> I’ve tried getting 1T to post with no luck on my board unfortunately. I expected the latency difference should of been abit larger though with 1t vs 2t.
> 
> Just did TXP/PPD and lowered trfc to 410 from 450 and got this... PB with latency for me with 6000mhz for now.
> 
> View attachment 2539655


Too much factors in Aida. Like I'm running bone stock cpu, compare to your 5400mhz? Background programs etc play a huge role in the result.


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> Too much factors in Aida. Like I'm running bone stock cpu, compare to your 5400mhz? Background programs etc play a huge role in the result.


yeah I know but ur uncore clock is x47! which should give you a very nice boost in latency strange heh.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

inedenimadam said:


> thanks for the suggestion.
> I managed to get my kit straightened out. I reflashed the 811 asus bios, and for whatever reason, it just works despite being the same bios. The samsung OC profile is working 6000 32-35-35-53.


Can you give me a .txt of your bios so I can cross reference my setup? I wanna try a your successful cpu clocks / ring ratio ect... before reflashing my 0811 bios. I think it is easy to save bios to .txt file and post it on forums using a USB drive.


----------



## RAGEdemon

Has anyone been able to boot/benchmark in DDR5 Gear 1 yet?

What happens if you put your base clock at 50MHz instead of 100, and run the CPU at half speed? We ought to be able to run the memory in gear1 now...

Then we can simply multiply benchmark results by 2 (or divide by 2 depending on context), to see with good certainty how a future AlderLaker with faster DDR5 @ gear1 will perform.

If you don't understand what I mean, I can go into further depth however, simply, if you half the clocks, every CPU benchmark worth its salt will give you half the score. Same if you double the clock.


----------



## Nizzen

RAGEdemon said:


> Has anyone been able to boot/benchmark in DDR5 Gear 1 yet?
> 
> What happens if you put your base clock at 50MHz instead of 100, and run the CPU at half speed? We ought to be able to run the memory in gear1 now...
> 
> Then we can simply multiply benchmark results by 2 (or divide by 2 depending on context), to see with good certainty how a future AlderLaker with faster DDR5 @ gear1 will perform.
> 
> If you don't understand what I mean, I can go into further depth however, simply, if you half the clocks, every CPU benchmark worth its salt will give you half the score. Same if you double the clock.


DDR5 is  only

Edit: GEAR 2 😆


----------



## RAGEdemon

You can select gear1 or gear2 with alder lake IMC<>memory. By default, it is gear2.


----------



## Benni231990

gear 1 only ddr4 possible

or maybe with a 120+ SP cpu xD


----------



## RAGEdemon

Alder lake IMC limit is 2000MHz, which I believe is the limiting factor.

DDR5-6000 = 3000MHz @ Gear2 = IMC operating at 1500MHz

To run on Gear1, you would need the IMC to run at 3000MHz.

Potentially, you could see significant latency improvement/performance uplift from running the IMC @ 2000 and the DDR5 at 4000 @ gear1 with tighter timings, compared with the default of IMC 1500 and DDR5 6000 @ gear2 slack timings.

I don't believe anyone has been able to boot at gear 1 on DDR5 though - it's not a technical spec issue - some kind of bug which needs to be ironed out.


----------



## ssgwright

I've noticed I can push my ram easily to 6400mhz on decent timings and pass memtest, benchmarks etc.. but for me the test is gaming. For example, I can tell my ram isn't stable when playing 2042 because I'll get weird "hitches" and sometimes it's difficult to distinguish if I get a hitch because of my ram stability or if it's just lag lol.


----------



## opt33

Gear 1 was only 1-2% faster vs Gear 2 on aggregate benchmarks of DDR4.
link-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgFlB0HG_84

Downclocking ddr5 ram to 4000, even if you could run gear 1, would have terrible latency and overall performance, you cant run tight ddr4 primary timings on ddr5. DDR5 latency and overall performance is best improved with higher frequencies with relatively tight timings.

As for gaming performance, most games respond better to increased bandwidth of DDr5 vs tighter DDR4 latency. And that was using 6000cl36 which is easy to OC to 6000cl32 with significant improvement in latency.








DDR4 vs. DDR5: The Best Memory for PC Gaming


DDR5 memory supply is expected to improve, and so will pricing. So let's take a more in-depth look at what DDR5 has to offer gamers when using...




www.techspot.com


----------



## morph.

1T is easy on apex.


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> 1T is easy on apex.


Compare Timespy cpu score?
5400mhz all core
4300mhz E cores
stock cache
6000c32 profile 1T
Win 11



CPU Score 23 102








I scored 22 029 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> Compare Timespy cpu score?
> 5400mhz all core
> 4300mhz E cores
> stock cache
> 6000c32 profile 1T
> Win 11
> 
> 
> 
> CPU Score 23 102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 22 029 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com



octvb+2, 54x2, 53x3, 52x8
5.2 allcore
41 E cores
36-44 cache
6400c30 1T
W11

CPU Score 22998








I scored 22 616 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## mattxx88

somone tried this basic Kingston kit?








Kingston Memory: DDR5 4800MT/s Non-ECC Unbuffered DIMM - Kingston Technology


Kingston has memory for your laptop or desktop PC. This Memory specification is: DDR5 4800MT/s Non-ECC Unbuffered DIMM




www.kingston.com





I d like to know what kind of chips they have


----------



## Alberto_It

mattxx88 said:


> somone tried this basic Kingston kit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston Memory: DDR5 4800MT/s Non-ECC Unbuffered DIMM - Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston has memory for your laptop or desktop PC. This Memory specification is: DDR5 4800MT/s Non-ECC Unbuffered DIMM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I d like to know what kind of chips they have


Micron, se vuoi sto vendendo le mie Fury X 5200


----------



## mattxx88

Alberto_It said:


> Micron, se vuoi sto vendendo le mie Fury X 5200


lol
ho gia le dominator fISt edition, basta merda Micron
Cercavo delle hynix base per giocare e vedere quanto riuscivo a farle salire

I already have the dominator fISt edition, no more Micron crap.

I was looking for some basic hynix to play with and see how much I could get them to go up

@sblantipodi ho visto che vende delle patriot hynix su tomshw, quasi quasi provo quelle la


----------



## Alberto_It

mattxx88 said:


> lol
> ho gia le dominator fISt edition, basta merda Micron
> Cercavo delle hynix base per giocare e vedere quanto riuscivo a farle salire
> 
> I already have the dominator fISt edition, no more Micron crap.
> 
> I was looking for some basic hynix to play with and see how much I could get them to go up
> 
> @sblantipodi ho visto che vende delle patriot hynix su tomshw, quasi quasi provo quelle la


Non temere anche io mi sto divertendo


----------



## Carillo

mattxx88 said:


> somone tried this basic Kingston kit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston Memory: DDR5 4800MT/s Non-ECC Unbuffered DIMM - Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston has memory for your laptop or desktop PC. This Memory specification is: DDR5 4800MT/s Non-ECC Unbuffered DIMM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I d like to know what kind of chips they have





Alberto_It said:


> Micron, se vuoi sto vendendo le mie Fury X 5200


Wrong, those are Hynix  Here is a picture of my sticks arriving tomorrow


----------



## Alberto_It

Carillo said:


> Wrong, those are Hynix  Here is a picture of my sticks arriving tomorrow
> View attachment 2539823


Ah ok, but aesthetically they are horrible


----------



## Carillo

Alberto_It said:


> Ah ok, but aesthetically they are horrible


Who cares when it outperforms everything else out there ?Also, DDR5 needs waterblock to perform, so it's a win win situation in my opinion since i don't have to tinker with removing heat spreaders  Can't wait to get rid of my G.skill samsung kit


----------



## mattxx88

Alberto_It said:


> Ah ok, but aesthetically they are horrible


mandami in pm un offerta dai 


Carillo said:


> Who cares when it outperforms everything else out there ?Also, DDR5 needs waterblock to perform, so it's a win win situation in my opinion since i don't have to tinker with removing heat spreaders  Can't wait to get rid of my G.skill samsung kit




do you have some aftermarket heatsink kit fine to apply on them?

EDIT:

a guy from hwluxx shared me a picture of his kit, seems to be Micron this one:


----------



## Nizzen

mattxx88 said:


> mandami in pm un offerta dai
> 
> 
> 
> do you have some aftermarket heatsink kit fine to apply on them?
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> a guy from hwluxx shared me a picture of his kit, seems to be Micron this one:


Write in English pleace


----------



## mattxx88

Nizzen said:


> Write in English pleace


nothing inside EU?  
i suppose they take months to come from.. (from where?😂)


----------



## Carillo

mattxx88 said:


> nothing inside EU?
> i suppose they take months to come from.. (from where?😂)


Thailand. It takes 2 days with DHL. I have ordered 3 kits, that should arrive 30th desember

Edit: Only produced on order, 7days production time


----------



## Carillo

mattxx88 said:


> mandami in pm un offerta dai
> 
> 
> 
> do you have some aftermarket heatsink kit fine to apply on them?
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> a guy from hwluxx shared me a picture of his kit, seems to be Micron this one:


Oh... So it's seems to be random ? Guess i was lucky then.


----------



## mattxx88

Carillo said:


> Oh... So it's seems to be random ? Guess i was lucky then.


seems so
how about your kit? are they fun to play with?


----------



## Carillo

mattxx88 said:


> seems so
> how about your kit? are they fun to play with?


Arriving tomorrow or thursday. Will post results here


----------



## Alberto_It

Question for you (I'm newbie so be patient with me) 

I own a Z690 Apex with Shamino's Bios 0031, 12900k and G.Skill 6000 Cl36. 

I have setup the XMP profile number 1without issues , but I'm wondering if it's necessary to change Dram Frequency Ratio from Auto to 1:1 or 1:2

Thank you in advance 

@cstkl1


----------



## Nizzen

Alberto_It said:


> Question for you (I'm newbie so be patient with me)
> 
> I own a Z690 Apex with Shamino's Bios 0031, 12900k and G.Skill 6000 Cl36.
> 
> I have setup the XMP profile number 1without issues , but I'm wondering if it's necessary to change Dram Frequency Ratio from Auto to 1:1 or 1:2
> 
> Thank you in advance
> 
> @cstkl1


no


----------



## Alberto_It

Nizzen said:


> no


So I leave in Auto, no improvements or better stability. 

Thank you @Nizzen


----------



## cstkl1

Alberto_It said:


> So I leave in Auto, no improvements or better stability.
> 
> Thank you @Nizzen


ddr5 default is 1:2 , 6000 is 100:100
so auto is just this 
no diff


----------



## Alberto_It

cstkl1 said:


> ddr5 default is 1:2 , 6000 is 100:100
> so auto is just this
> no diff


Thank you 🙏


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Asus maximus hero z690 bios 0811 still won't boot F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS doesn't matter xmp 1, xmp 2, manual, or auto. Tried every SA, vdd, vddq, in lowest increments keeping vddq and vdd even it won't boot 6000mhz. Best I can get stable is 5400mhz using 40, 40, 40, 76 I am very disappointed.


----------



## cstkl1

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Asus maximus hero z690 bios 0811 still won't boot F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS doesn't matter xmp 1, xmp 2, manual, or auto. Tried every SA, vdd, vddq, in lowest increments keeping vddq and vdd even it won't boot 6000mhz. Best I can get stable is 5400mhz using 40, 40, 40, 76 I am very disappointed.


try loading asus profile 6k samsung c34-35-35


----------



## Carillo

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Asus maximus hero z690 bios 0811 still won't boot F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS doesn't matter xmp 1, xmp 2, manual, or auto. Tried every SA, vdd, vddq, in lowest increments keeping vddq and vdd even it won't boot 6000mhz. Best I can get stable is 5400mhz using 40, 40, 40, 76 I am very disappointed.



Tips : 

Hold clear cmos for 30 seconds, and enter bios. Dont use XMP, just set 6000 mhz manually and enter primary timings 40.40.40.76. Enter 1,20 MC,1,30 vdd and vddq, leave the rest on AUTO. Try that.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Carillo said:


> Tips :
> 
> Hold clear cmos for 30 seconds, and enter bios. Dont use XMP, just set 6000 mhz manually and enter primary timings 40.40.40.76. Enter 1,20 MC,1,30 vdd and vddq, leave the rest on AUTO. Try that.


Should I load my working cpu/cache profile after reboot or just do optimized default?


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

cstkl1 said:


> try loading asus profile 6k samsung c34-35-35


It seems to want to default to that setting when doing mode 1 training maybe use mode 1 and set it to t2?.


----------



## cstkl1

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> It seems to want to default to that setting when doing mode 1 training maybe use mode 1 and set it to t2?.


@satinghostrider
he just ran same kit/apex new build .. that profile no issue


----------



## sblantipodi

Is there someone who can tell me if I can try to push my Corsair Dominator 5600MHz C36 at 1.35V?

Samsung chip on them.

Do I risk to damage the RAM by running them at 1.35V in the long term?
they are tested at 1.25V, is 1.35V risky?


----------



## dante`afk

Carillo said:


> Arriving tomorrow or thursday. Will post results here


where do you order from? I don't even see them on water cooling


/edit, all good I found him and ordered block, delid tool and ramblock


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

cstkl1 said:


> @satinghostrider
> he just ran same kit/apex new build .. that profile no issue


Where do I find this profile? Is it in the bios in the tweaker menu? There is a couple samsung loads that look awesome I just didn't think were possible.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

cstkl1 said:


> @satinghostrider
> he just ran same kit/apex new build .. that profile no issue


Where do I find this profile? Is it in the bios in the tweaker menu? There is a couple samsung loads that look awesome I just didn't think were possible.


----------



## satinghostrider

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> Where do I find this profile? Is it in the bios in the tweaker menu? There is a couple samsung loads that look awesome I just didn't think were possible.












Quick and Dirty Run after my first bootup.

Extreme Tweaker > Dram Timing Control > Memory Presets. Choose the last profile. Remember to set your dram frequency and ratios.


----------



## sblantipodi

sblantipodi said:


> Is there someone who can tell me if I can try to push my Corsair Dominator 5600MHz C36 at 1.35V?
> 
> Samsung chip on them.
> 
> Do I risk to damage the RAM by running them at 1.35V in the long term?
> they are tested at 1.25V, is 1.35V risky?


any idea on this matter?


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> any idea on this matter?


Try first, then ask 

First find max frequency.
Set 1.5v on both vdd
1.4 mc
1.0 SA
Try 6000 xmp -6200- 6400 and so on...

Use fan over dimms


----------



## J7SC

This may not be the right thread though it seems related...I almost picked up a Z690 Hero available at a store yesterday at a great price where I often get my gear. However, DDR5 availability (or lack thereof) stopped me, for now...later on I saw the Jay2cents vid below, which seems DDR5 / voltage / SPD flashing related. Now, I take Jay2cents and the like with a pinch of salt, but have you folks with this board and various OCs noticed anything re. qcode 54 etc ?


----------



## matique

sblantipodi said:


> any idea on this matter?


running my 5600c36 at 6200c32 1.46v without issue so far. Not sure on long term, but judging from ddr4 voltages for memory 1.46v should be fine. I ran 1.55v on some ddr4 bdie for 2 years and it's fine.


----------



## sblantipodi

matique said:


> running my 5600c36 at 6200c32 1.46v without issue so far. Not sure on long term, but judging from ddr4 voltages for memory 1.46v should be fine. I ran 1.55v on some ddr4 bdie for 2 years and it's fine.


what about SA voltage and MC voltage?
what is the general consensous about safe voltages?


----------



## j o e

anyone have any luck overclocking corsair dominator 5200 c40 micron chips? I cant get anything above 5200 out of them


----------



## dante`afk

j o e said:


> anyone have any luck overclocking corsair dominator 5200 c40 micron chips? I cant get anything above 5200 out of them











*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


anyone knows if the gskill 6000 cl36 are hynix or samsung? at least the cl 40 on asus page show as hynix




www.overclock.net












*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Oh hey there, I also want in on not adhering to JEDEC standarts and getting better latency from that Look at me using Tfaw=28, passing 5h of absolut tm5 memtest and getting better latency FYI TFAW=32 is unstable




www.overclock.net












*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Apex z690: Load 5400mhz memory preset for Micron. BOOM! 98% of the potensial out of the memory. Easy :p Nothing of the above works. Upped the mc and sa, tried the micron profiles.. Nothing works as of now




www.overclock.net












*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Oh hey there, I also want in on not adhering to JEDEC standarts and getting better latency from that Look at me using Tfaw=28, passing 5h of absolut tm5 memtest and getting better latency FYI TFAW=32 is unstable




www.overclock.net


----------



## mattxx88

dante`afk said:


> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> anyone knows if the gskill 6000 cl36 are hynix or samsung? at least the cl 40 on asus page show as hynix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Oh hey there, I also want in on not adhering to JEDEC standarts and getting better latency from that Look at me using Tfaw=28, passing 5h of absolut tm5 memtest and getting better latency FYI TFAW=32 is unstable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Apex z690: Load 5400mhz memory preset for Micron. BOOM! 98% of the potensial out of the memory. Easy :p Nothing of the above works. Upped the mc and sa, tried the micron profiles.. Nothing works as of now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Oh hey there, I also want in on not adhering to JEDEC standarts and getting better latency from that Look at me using Tfaw=28, passing 5h of absolut tm5 memtest and getting better latency FYI TFAW=32 is unstable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


your post saved me 4 "preferred" slots on chrome, thaks


----------



## Gsen999

Does DDR5 "hynix modules" really need waterblock to perform at reasonable temps? Can it not be achieved with some quality heatspreaders?


----------



## dante`afk




----------



## mattxx88

j o e said:


> anyone have any luck overclocking corsair dominator 5200 c40 micron chips? I cant get anything above 5200 out of them


anyway these are mine if may help


----------



## j o e

mattxx88 said:


> anyway these are mine if may help


It still won’t boot to windows at 5400 40-40-40-77 1.35 vdd 1.35vddq 1.3mc 100:100 is there another voltage setting I’m missing?


----------



## mattxx88

j o e said:


> It still won’t boot to windows at 5400 40-40-40-77 1.35 vdd 1.35vddq 1.3mc 100:100 is there another voltage setting I’m missing?


I posted my voltage for that reason, go for 1.53v vdd and vddq inside bios, then in windows they are lower as you see in my screen.
My kit is not as lucky as nizzen falky or adna's kits
Just needs more petrol. Is like a USA engine


----------



## Forsaken1

j o e said:


> It still won’t boot to windows at 5400 40-40-40-77 1.35 vdd 1.35vddq 1.3mc 100:100 is there another voltage setting I’m missing?


tREFi 65535? If not no chance.I’d try sa .9-1.1v.


----------



## j o e

I’ll try adjusting sa I think it’s on auto now. I’ve tried vdd vddq at 1.5 but it won’t boot either


----------



## Gsen999

Would there be any differences in terms of overclocking capabilities between z690 Apex and the z690 Hero anybody? Thanks.


----------



## warbucks

biigshow666 said:


> i purchased the same kit yesterday from Newegg. interested to see how you fare with it. my SP score is 87 as well.


I got it up and running on my test bench. I can run the CL32 Samsung profile on my APEX. Testmem5 Anta Extreme completed without any errors. Doing some more testing to see if I can push past 6000Mhz at the same timings.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

Carillo said:


> Tips :
> 
> Hold clear cmos for 30 seconds, and enter bios. Dont use XMP, just set 6000 mhz manually and enter primary timings 40.40.40.76. Enter 1,20 MC,1,30 vdd and vddq, leave the rest on AUTO. Try that.


I just got home to try it now, I hope this works


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2539891
> 
> 
> Quick and Dirty Run after my first bootup.
> 
> Extreme Tweaker > Dram Timing Control > Memory Presets. Choose the last profile. Remember to set your dram frequency and ratios.


Is your CPU the same as optimized defaults for this? Can I get a bios txt so I can copycat like exactly


----------



## Zyther

So the non rgb gskill has alot better temps then the rgb models. Is the actual heat sink different on the non rgb?


----------



## biigshow666

warbucks said:


> I got it up and running on my test bench. I can run the CL32 Samsung profile on my APEX. Testmem5 Anta Extreme completed without any errors. Doing some more testing to see if I can push past 6000Mhz at the same timings.


Nice. I have only received a shipping label for now. I have strix f so I will have to search this thread for some achievable settings as a starting point.. interested to see what you got your sp86 12900k stable at as well. I'm currently at 55*2 52ac,40ec,43ring @ auto voltage @ llc1. Will try to adjust my voltage because for some reason the package temp shoots up to 91c.


----------



## Falkentyne

j o e said:


> It still won’t boot to windows at 5400 40-40-40-77 1.35 vdd 1.35vddq 1.3mc 100:100 is there another voltage setting I’m missing?


Does it train? Can you get into BIOS?
and what board and bios version?

Make sure your twrwr_sg isn't set too low. Twrwr_dg=8 is fine. twrwr_sg too low will fail to train. Try setting it to 24 first.

and try twtr_l=12, and twtr_s=1. I think these control twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg) (or maybe its the opposite i don't remember rn and I have no access to my computer)
Also you may not want to run TCL=tRAS. Try 36/37/37/48 with tWCL 34.


----------



## j o e

Falkentyne said:


> Does it train? Can you get into BIOS?
> and what board and bios version?
> 
> Make sure your twrwr_sg isn't set too low. Twrwr_dg=8 is fine. twrwr_sg too low will fail to train. Try setting it to 24 first.
> 
> and try twtr_l=12, and twtr_s=1. I think these control twrrd_sg and twrrd_dg) (or maybe its the opposite i don't remember rn and I have no access to my computer)
> Also you may not want to run TCL=tRAS. Try 36/37/37/48 with tWCL 34.


It takes forever to train and then I can get into bios after that it goes into a boot drive repair screen then a bsod, ill try those settings in a few and let you know how it goes. board is z690 hero and bios is 0803


----------



## j o e

is there a program like mem tweak it for windows 11? I cant find anything that works


----------



## bscool

j o e said:


> is there a program like mem tweak it for windows 11? I cant find anything that works


Z690 Bios and Tools memtweakit works for me on Win11. Bunch of other tools at link


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone got Corsair ddr5 6200 or 6400? Are they Hynix? Good?


----------



## warbucks

biigshow666 said:


> Nice. I have only received a shipping label for now. I have strix f so I will have to search this thread for some achievable settings as a starting point.. interested to see what you got your sp86 12900k stable at as well. I'm currently at 55*2 52ac,40ec,43ring @ auto voltage @ llc1. Will try to adjust my voltage because for some reason the package temp shoots up to 91c.


What are you cooling the cpu with? All core 5.2Ghz will get toasty if it's an air cooler.


----------



## Mad1137

So guys, I oc my 5600c36 , to 6000c34 , but I use vdd , vddq 1.4 , it's safe for long usage ?? Or it's risk . Please help


----------



## ssgwright

J7SC said:


> This may not be the right thread though it seems related...I almost picked up a Z690 Hero available at a store yesterday at a great price where I often get my gear. However, DDR5 availability (or lack thereof) stopped me, for now...later on I saw the Jay2cents vid below, which seems DDR5 / voltage / SPD flashing related. Now, I take Jay2cents and the like with a pinch of salt, but have you folks with this board and various OCs noticed anything re. qcode 54 etc ?


I have this board and he just posted an update about a capacitor being the issue if it's mounted "upside down". Mine is upside down so of course I flipped and contacted ASUS- this was the response lol: "not all units have this problem, no worries on your current motherboard..."


----------



## sblantipodi

With my Maximus Extreme I can't get 4.8GHz stable on my 5600MHz memory (4 sticks).
I think that I'm selling this stupid expensive motherboard to get a ddr4 one.


----------



## inedenimadam

J7SC said:


> This may not be the right thread though it seems related...I almost picked up a Z690 Hero available at a store yesterday at a great price where I often get my gear. However, DDR5 availability (or lack thereof) stopped me, for now...later on I saw the Jay2cents vid below, which seems DDR5 / voltage / SPD flashing related. Now, I take Jay2cents and the like with a pinch of salt, but have you folks with this board and various OCs noticed anything re. qcode 54 etc ?


J2C really should stick to his lane. He didn't have anything to add to the topic, and seems to just regurgitate a WCCFTECH article. Buildzoid has good info on it. My thoughts on the ASUS Maximus Z690 Hero failures - YouTube


----------



## Carillo

SoonHo Jeong over at Asus got this sick results with G.skill hynix sticks

7200 cl32


----------



## J7SC

inedenimadam said:


> J2C really should stick to his lane. He didn't have anything to add to the topic, and seems to just regurgitate a WCCFTECH article. Buildzoid has good info on it. My thoughts on the ASUS Maximus Z690 Hero failures - YouTube


I'm sorry you don;t feel well....may be worry less about my lanes.
In any case, I decided to order a different Z690 board. I'm just trying to figure out now who the best DDR5 source-manufacturers are at this stage, specifically for a 64GB kit. With DDR3 and DDR4, Samsung-B was the obvious choice, but looking at this thread since early on and other sources as well, it appears to be Hynix ?


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted at Korean PC forum.

Ram : Gskill 6000 CL36 Kits
OC : 6200 30-36-36-450-2t
Voltage : vdd 1.5v /mc 1.3 / sa 1.275


----------



## Carillo

Trying to find the 0022 bios for Apex...Anyone ?


----------



## matique

sblantipodi said:


> what about SA voltage and MC voltage?
> what is the general consensous about safe voltages?


i think SA should be around 1.35? I have mine at 1.2-1.3, still deciding. It's stable at 1.23 SA without issue though. MC i have it at 1.3.


----------



## hengmy

Hi i am new here, does anyone have idea why the latency is so high? cpu is at stock.


----------



## Carillo

hengmy said:


> Hi i am new here, does anyone have idea why the latency is so high? cpu is at stock.
> View attachment 2540026


Post your timings. Also, if you diable e-cores you will be able to push ring speed 
which will affect latency.


----------



## hengmy

Carillo said:


> Post your timings. Also, if you diable e-cores you will be able to push ring speed
> which will affect latency.


Tweaking the timing to lower only reduce latency like 0.1, i will try disable ecore and try again, thanks


----------



## Carillo

hengmy said:


> Tweaking the timing to lower only reduce latency like 0.1, i will try disable ecore and try again, thanks
> 
> View attachment 2540027


----------



## hengmy

Carillo said:


> View attachment 2540028


is this normal? ecore disabled, and tuned the timing, this speed cant get around 50 ns?


----------



## Nizzen

hengmy said:


> is this normal? ecore disabled, and tuned the timing, this speed cant get around 50 ns?
> 
> View attachment 2540032


Latency looks right on point 

Want lower?
Strip windows for programs and background programs, or Reinstall windows with minimum and strip it with "ThisIsWin11" program

Set all core OC and disable ALL power save in bios and windows.
Buy Asus Apex and run 1Tand even tighter timings 
Want even lower, then buy Hynix memory and overclock it to the "max" 
Sub 50ns easy


----------



## DanGleeballs

Hi all joined to share my first DDR5 oc experience with Micron 4800 40 39 39 77 1.1v. Thanks for all the info on here and people sharing plus knowledge from DDR4 Bdie I got to this:
5400 the best I can get with the voltages/cooling I'm using for a 24/7 OC. Its a gaming PC so temps need to be kept in check.
12700KF, Aorus Pro bios F6b, 51x2 50x4 49x8 Ecore40 Ring41 Lowest LLC, small bump in Vcore.
SA 1.29, MC 1.25, VDD 1.275, VDDQ 1.320
Passed all the usual ram testing no probs but more importantly for me hours of game stability. I have some cheap ebay special heatsink on the ram which I'm sure help with temps.









This has been a bit of a challenge with lots of cmos clearing and staring at post code readout. For some reason this combo of components is very sensitive to voltages which causes network to disappear and only return with a cmos clear


----------



## Carillo

hengmy said:


> is this normal? ecore disabled, and tuned the timing, this speed cant get around 50 ns?
> 
> View attachment 2540032


46-50ns, you need SK hynix. 52-54ns is around the best dayli i could do with my crappy samsung kit

EDIT: You should be able to do 1T with that speed


----------



## hengmy

Carillo said:


> 46-50ns, you need SK hynix. 52-54ns is around the best dayli i could do with my crappy samsung kit
> 
> EDIT: You should be able to do 1T with that speed


i am finding daily setting, these 6200mhz cl32 with 1.36v is quite safe.


----------



## hengmy

Nizzen said:


> Latency looks right on point
> 
> Want lower?
> Strip windows for programs and background programs, or Reinstall windows with minimum and strip it with "ThisIsWin11" program
> 
> Set all core OC and disable ALL power save in bios and windows.
> Buy Asus Apex and run 1Tand even tighter timings
> Want even lower, then buy Hynix memory and overclock it to the "max"
> Sub 50ns easy


ya i wanted apex but my country dont have apex, mine is hynix chipset


----------



## Carillo

hengmy said:


> i am finding daily setting, these 6200mhz cl32 with 1.36v is quite safe.


1.36 is way to low. High voltage is the safest thing you can do. You don't want your sticks to freeze.


----------



## dante`afk

so, if you want stable ram and no re-training after every reboot, never restart the pc, eh?


----------



## Forsaken1

DanGleeballs said:


> Hi all joined to share my first DDR5 oc experience with Micron 4800 40 39 39 77 1.1v. Thanks for all the info on here and people sharing plus knowledge from DDR4 Bdie I got to this:
> 5400 the best I can get with the voltages/cooling I'm using for a 24/7 OC. Its a gaming PC so temps need to be kept in check.
> 12700KF, Aorus Pro bios F6b, 51x2 50x4 49x8 Ecore40 Ring41 Lowest LLC, small bump in Vcore.
> SA 1.29, MC 1.25, VDD 1.275, VDDQ 1.320
> Passed all the usual ram testing no probs but more importantly for me hours of game stability. I have some cheap ebay special heatsink on the ram which I'm sure help with temps.
> View attachment 2540038
> 
> 
> This has been a bit of a challenge with lots of cmos clearing and staring at post code readout. For some reason this combo of components is very sensitive to voltages which causes network to disappear and only return with a cmos clear


5400 is normal ball park for micron.
Power cycle two times.No need to clear cmos most of the time.Dropping lan is often a indication of overzealous bios settings.


----------



## skullbringer

dante`afk said:


> so, if you want stable ram and no re-training after every reboot, never restart the pc, eh?


loosening timings substantially helps too ime, like +4 on all primaries


----------



## Forsaken1

Nizzen said:


> Want lower?
> Buy Asus Apex and run 1Tand even tighter timings


Also UNIFY X or TACHYON.Pocket $200 vs apex.Assus is way over hyped and priced out of line.


----------



## owikh84

hengmy said:


> ya i wanted apex but my country dont have apex, mine is hynix chipset


A friend of mine bought it from Taobao, about 3.4K MYR if you don't mind about the hassle of warranty. BTW, the 1.36v you set is the MC voltage, you should mention the VDD and VDDQ etc as well which are ~1.45v from your SS above.


----------



## hengmy

owikh84 said:


> A friend of mine bought it from Taobao, about 3.4K MYR if you don't mind about the hassle of warranty. BTW, the 1.36v you set is the MC voltage, you should mention the VDD and VDDQ etc as well which are ~1.45v from your SS above.


i tuned it for daily used after initial testing with 1.45v, processor running at 4.4ghz, waiting for radiator to go higher.


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

If your using Maximus Hero z690 and can't get your memory to post using over 1.19v on MC 1.3vdd 1.3vddq I hear a loud click and yellow light. I think 1.2 MC engages the problem or going over 1.29 making it 1.3 or higher which also probably defaults 1.2 MC or higher. Loud click and no bootup.

Memory problem OC can't get past 5600mhz without these voltages on my F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS same orientation on the capacitor that keeps burning this mobos. up.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Forsaken1 said:


> 5400 is normal ball park for micron.
> Power cycle two times.No need to clear cmos most of the time.Dropping lan is often a indication of overzealous bios settings.


Ah thank you so this is normal. I thought something was up with my board. Never had that before.
I could boot 5600 no problem so may go back and try again with a bit more VDD/VDDQ


----------



## Carillo

Best Apex bios for hynix ? @sugi0lover @cstkl1 @safedisk ?


----------



## biigshow666

warbucks said:


> What are you cooling the cpu with? All core 5.2Ghz will get toasty if it's an air cooler.


1x 240 rad 1x 280 rad just for the cpu as my 3090 is on air.


----------



## Nizzen

Forsaken1 said:


> Also UNIFY X or TACHYON.Pocket $200 vs apex.Assus is way over hyped and priced out of line.


Where is the performance numbers??


----------



## opt33

My Hero has the upside down/reversed polarity cap as well, seeing multiple Hero's burned in same spot was enough for me regardless. The MSI Unify X I ordered is due to arrive this evening, interested to see how 2 dimm board does with same ram.


----------



## kaTus

Finally I received DDR5 6000MHz CL36 and I can join to You with OC.


----------



## Forsaken1

Nizzen said:


> Where is the performance numbers??


HWBOT sergmann, Bullant & Bullshooter doing work.
My Tachyon results soon.✌


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

opt33 said:


> My Hero has the upside down/reversed polarity cap as well, seeing multiple Hero's burned in same spot was enough for me regardless. The MSI Unify X I ordered is due to arrive this evening, interested to see how 2 dimm board does with same ram.


I am doing RMA and it's going to be weeks without a motherboard it seems.


----------



## gamervivek

Looking to get this kit : F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S

It's a bit cheaper than other 6000 C36 kits, probably because of no RGB? Or is there some binning going on?


----------



## Muad_Dib69

gamervivek said:


> Looking to get this kit : F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S
> 
> It's a bit cheaper than other 6000 C36 kits, probably because of no RGB? Or is there some binning going on?


i have both tz5k and tz5rs, same **** with formula, so hard to boot at stock. XMP1 and ugrade volatge to 1.35 to have something a little stable


----------



## opt33

ParadoxicalPurpose said:


> I am doing RMA and it's going to be weeks without a motherboard it seems.


yeah, I have no patience for rma'ing anything but evga gpu's via cross-ship (and why I only buy evga gpus). Just tossing mine and going with MSI this round.


----------



## Nizzen

Forsaken1 said:


> HWBOT sergmann, Bullant & Bullshooter doing work.
> My Tachyon results soon.✌


The point was: If there isn't any results of Msi unify X, how can Asus Apex be overhyped and prized out of line? We need other results than pure Ln2 and just high memory clock without no more info.
The prize is too high in my opinion too.

Prize in Norway
z690 Apex is 7499 NOK 
z690 Unify X is 6750 NOK

Not that far away. Maybe Asus Dimm.2 is worth alot. I love that slot with 2x m.2 nvme ssd's. Can use the dimm.2 in the same slot in 3 of my computers. z490 Apex, x299 Apex and now z690 Apex. ( z590 Apex is sold)


----------



## matique

dante`afk said:


> so, if you want stable ram and no re-training after every reboot, never restart the pc, eh?


I enabled MRC and disabled MCH check. No random retrains so far.

Edit just checked my ram again this evening (slight paranoia) and it's stable.









I am not sure if this applies to other boards but here's what I experience (+ it's repeatable).

1. 6200c32 tested to be stable.
2. Tried other timings, unstable.
3. Reloaded previous stable 6200c32 timings, unstable??
4. Reboot to bios, load optimised defaults, restart pc.
5. Go back to bios, manually enter 6200c32 timing, reboot, stable!
6. Back to bios, disable mch, reboot.
7. Never touch ram timings again.

Z690i Strix board with 5600c36 trident z5, 0811 bios. Maybe Shamino can check to see if this is repeatable on their end.


----------



## Nizzen

matique said:


> I enabled MRC and disabled MCH check. No random retrains so far.


This is food for post #1. More people will have love to know this


----------



## ObviousCough

Is there any i5 data in this thread i can refer to?

My SP62 12600k seems to be struggling with the XMP of my 5600C36 kit, using an Apex on 0803.


----------



## matique

Nizzen said:


> This is food for post #1. More people will have love to know this


Only recommend to do this after finding stable settings though. Unstable timings + mch disabled is will be pretty hard to spot which timings are too tight, too troubleshoot.

Do you do the same? This works for me so far, not sure for others or how dangerous etc this is, so ymmv.


----------



## ssgwright

I'm tempted to get a different board as well (I also have the hero with the upside down cap) I've been running 5.1 all core, 6000 36 36 36 68 with ring 4200 for almost 3 weeks now with no issues. BUT is it a ticking time bomb? I'm also very impatient and can't wait 2 weeks to RMA. My plan right now is to roll with it, if it fails buy an apex then try to get my money back for the hero I guess


----------



## jomama22

matique said:


> I enabled MRC and disabled MCH check. No random retrains so far.
> 
> Edit just checked my ram again this evening (slight paranoia) and it's stable.
> View attachment 2540066
> 
> 
> I am not sure if this applies to other boards but here's what I experience (+ it's repeatable).
> 
> 1. 6200c32 tested to be stable.
> 2. Tried other timings, unstable.
> 3. Reloaded previous stable 6200c32 timings, unstable??
> 4. Reboot to bios, load optimised defaults, restart pc.
> 5. Go back to bios, manually enter 6200c32 timing, reboot, stable!
> 6. Back to bios, disable mch, reboot.
> 7. Never touch ram timings again.
> 
> Z690i Strix board with 5600c36 trident z5, 0811 bios. Maybe Shamino can check to see if this is repeatable on their end.


So you have mch full check enabled during training? Or you just mean it's on auto and then you disable it? Reason I ask is because mch full check is disabled on auto already, so disabling it will effectively do nothing.

If the case above is true (you just have mch on auto) then all that's really happening here is you're manually entering timings after a load optimized defaults when a bad initialization happens on the memory at the oc settings.


----------



## ObviousCough

I updated to 0811

Load Raw MHz preset got me up to 6000 so far









edit: got into windows at 6200 but BSOD, backed it down to 6133 and it hasn't crashed instantly


----------



## ParadoxicalPurpose

ssgwright said:


> I'm tempted to get a different board as well (I also have the hero with the upside down cap) I've been running 5.1 all core, 6000 36 36 36 68 with ring 4200 for almost 3 weeks now with no issues. BUT is it a ticking time bomb? I'm also very impatient and can't wait 2 weeks to RMA. My plan right now is to roll with it, if it fails buy an apex then try to get my money back for the hero I guess


Ya I don't like the idea of RMA either but it's true, inevitable I am not risking my other components on this... I don't want to be a z690 owner now and if they won't do a recall until houses start burning down from gamers that mine crypto when they sleep. I'll buy something else put the hero z690 on ebay after the RMA comes in soften my losses.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Best Apex bios for hynix ? @sugi0lover @cstkl1 @safedisk ?


0021


----------



## Xeq54

Muad_Dib69 said:


> i have both tz5k and tz5rs, same **** with formula, so hard to boot at stock. XMP1 and ugrade volatge to 1.35 to have something a little stable


F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK here and no issue with XMP1/1.3/1.3/1.25IMC. Passed all tests. 
ROG HERO 0811 bios.


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> 0021


Thanks mate. Got my Value kit today , HYNIX, but i have this strange problem.. If i enable high ram voltage it will not boot. No matter what settings i use. Currently on 0053 BIOS, updating as we speak.

EDIT: Same problem with 0811 bios

EDIT 2 RENASAS pmic


----------



## SoldierRBT

Carillo said:


> Thanks mate. Got my Value kit today , HYNIX, but i have this strange problem.. If i enable high ram voltage it will not boot. No matter what settings i use. Currently on 0053 BIOS, updating as we speak.
> 
> EDIT: Same problem with 0811 bios
> 
> EDIT 2 RENASAS pmic


Find a balance between VDD/VDDQ and SA/MC. TX VDDQ I leave it on auto. For me best bios is 0806 atm. 

Some values I use that could help:
1.40v VDD 1.25v VDDQ (6200C30 1T)
1.45v VDD 1.35v VDDQ (6400C30 1T) 
1.50v VDD 1.45v VDDQ (6600C30 1T auto timings)

Higher VDD doesn’t boot in my case. Not sure if it’s ram issue or bios.


----------



## ObviousCough

eh, i guess it could be worse.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Thanks mate. Got my Value kit today , HYNIX, but i have this strange problem.. If i enable high ram voltage it will not boot. No matter what settings i use. Currently on 0053 BIOS, updating as we speak.
> 
> EDIT: Same problem with 0811 bios
> 
> EDIT 2 RENASAS pmic


0072 u are ok?


----------



## Carillo

SoldierRBT said:


> Find a balance between VDD/VDDQ and SA/MC. TX VDDQ I leave it on auto. For me best bios is 0806 atm.
> 
> Some values I use that could help:
> 1.40v VDD 1.25v VDDQ (6200C30 1T)
> 1.45v VDD 1.35v VDDQ (6400C30 1T)
> 1.50v VDD 1.45v VDDQ (6600C30 1T auto timings)
> 
> Higher VDD doesn’t boot in my case. Not sure if it’s ram issue or bios.





SoldierRBT said:


> Find a balance between VDD/VDDQ and SA/MC. TX VDDQ I leave it on auto. For me best bios is 0806 atm.
> 
> Some values I use that could help:
> 1.40v VDD 1.25v VDDQ (6200C30 1T)
> 1.45v VDD 1.35v VDDQ (6400C30 1T)
> 1.50v VDD 1.45v VDDQ (6600C30 1T auto timings)
> 
> Higher VDD doesn’t boot in my case. Not sure if it’s ram issue or bios.


No matter what i do, if i go past 1,435 ( enable high voltage for dram) it will not boot... SO frustrating! Thanks anyway


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> 0072 u are ok?


Same problem with 0072....


----------



## Xeq54

My samsung Gskill 6000/CL36 reaches 68-70 degrees at 1.3v, is that normal ? Though I do have my loop set up with both 360 rads as intake, so inside case is around 36 degrees.


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> Same problem with 0072....



I have tried a lot of bioses no, and last thing i tried on 0031, SET everything to auto included memory timing and speed. all voltages auto, only thing i did ENABLE high voltage for memory. still NO boot. *** ? must be a bios problem


----------



## mattxx88

Carillo said:


> I have tried a lot of bioses no, and last thing i tried on 0031, SET everything to auto included memory timing and speed. all voltages auto, only thing i did ENABLE high voltage for memory. still NO boot. *** ? must be a bios problem


this with kingston hynix kit?


----------



## asdkj1740

Xeq54 said:


> My samsung Gskill 6000/CL36 reaches 68-70 degrees at 1.3v, is that normal ? Though I do have my loop set up with both 360 rads as intake, so inside case is around 36 degrees.


try the latest beta bios and you shall see the temps drop back mid 50c under heavy loads.


----------



## Xeq54

asdkj1740 said:


> try the latest beta bios and you shall see the temps drop back mid 50c under heavy loads.


Which one ? I have the 0811 on my ROG HERO


----------



## munternet

So what is the best combination of components and OS currently not including cost to get the best ram performance?


----------



## dante`afk

matique said:


> I enabled MRC and disabled MCH check. No random retrains so far.
> 
> Edit just checked my ram again this evening (slight paranoia) and it's stable.
> View attachment 2540066
> 
> 
> I am not sure if this applies to other boards but here's what I experience (+ it's repeatable).
> 
> 1. 6200c32 tested to be stable.
> 2. Tried other timings, unstable.
> 3. Reloaded previous stable 6200c32 timings, unstable??
> 4. Reboot to bios, load optimised defaults, restart pc.
> 5. Go back to bios, manually enter 6200c32 timing, reboot, stable!
> 6. Back to bios, disable mch, reboot.
> 7. Never touch ram timings again.
> 
> Z690i Strix board with 5600c36 trident z5, 0811 bios. Maybe Shamino can check to see if this is repeatable on their end.


as @jomama22 said above, you essentially just re-train, because between step 5 and 6 six you don't change anything but entering the settings again, after you reboot on 5. it retrains, then you go to bios and "disable" mch, it's already disabled on auto, then it retrains again after step 6 as you reboot.


----------



## Gsen999

munternet said:


> So what is the best combination of components and OS currently not including cost to get the best ram performance?


12900k praying you get decent SP, z690 ASUS Apex with SK Hynix RAM ideally team group if you're lucky to find it at MSRP (highly doubt). If you prioritise latency you can disable e-cores push all cores to around 5.4ghz with a good SP you can run this at 1.3V max and overclock CPU cache with e-cores disabled to about 4.8ghz, e-cores enabled between 4.0ghz to 4.3ghz. I've seen Win11 improve latency slightly for some but also haven't seen any improvement for others. CHeck for yourself.


----------



## jhlee0133

hengmy said:


> ya i wanted apex but my country dont have apex, mine is hynix chipset


Just as owikh84 said, you can actually get the apex from taobao if you don't mind about the warranty thingy. A friend of mine got his apex recently through taobao but it's best that you contact the seller to provide extra protection to the package because it's going to be a REALLY rough ride.


----------



## sblantipodi

my brother's Asus Hero can drive 4x16GB @ 5.2GHz with XMP,
my Asus Extreme can't drive 4x16GB @ 4.8GHz.

should I sell my extreme for an hero?


----------



## ssgwright

just went and bought another hero... can't stand the thought of my board going up in flames while im sleeping... this one the compacitor is not upside down...


----------



## matique

jomama22 said:


> So you have mch full check enabled during training? Or you just mean it's on auto and then you disable it? Reason I ask is because mch full check is disabled on auto already, so disabling it will effectively do nothing.
> 
> If the case above is true (you just have mch on auto) then all that's really happening here is you're manually entering timings after a load optimized defaults when a bad initialization happens on the memory at the oc settings.


Ah that's interesting. So it's the manual insertion of timings that leads to stability? Idk perhaps it's just placebo then. I have had it on auto before. Thank you for the clarification, always good to learn.


----------



## Bakerman

sblantipodi said:


> my brother's Asus Hero can drive 4x16GB @ 5.2GHz with XMP,
> my Asus Extreme can't drive 4x16GB @ 4.8GHz.
> 
> should I sell my extreme for an hero?


My Extreme is not great when it comes to RAM timings. I'm returning it tomorrow and getting Apex. 
Get Hero, same stuff with less useless "crap" in the box.


----------



## dante`afk

3 hours of Karhu and new bios, no problem, > reboot, error after 5 minutes


----------



## munternet

Gsen999 said:


> 12900k praying you get decent SP, z690 ASUS Apex with SK Hynix RAM ideally team group if you're lucky to find it at MSRP (highly doubt). If you prioritise latency you can disable e-cores push all cores to around 5.4ghz with a good SP you can run this at 1.3V max and overclock CPU cache with e-cores disabled to about 4.8ghz, e-cores enabled between 4.0ghz to 4.3ghz. I've seen Win11 improve latency slightly for some but also haven't seen any improvement for others. CHeck for yourself.


Thanks for the reply  
I can't see that ram anywhere. What chips are on the Gskill?


----------



## warbucks

dante`afk said:


> 3 hours of Karhu and new bios, no problem, > reboot, error after 5 minutes
> 
> View attachment 2540110


What's your CPU power duty and phase control set to?

What RAM kit are you running again?


----------



## opt33

Just installed MSI 690 unify-x to replace Hero with upside down cap. Wanted to try MSI and 2 dimm board. Still need to tighten timings to improve latency but first wanted to see if 1T, trains and runs memtest, so far no problem. 4 dimm board wouldnt even train 1T. 1.43 vdd/vddq, cpu vddq1.24, no idea necessary volts yet, first oc boot.


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted at Korean PC forum

DDR5 7000 C30 40 40 30 (BIOS 1.55v)
MB: MSI Unify


----------



## Carillo

Those settings is 100% stable with all avalible ram (not this photo but same settings) 1,435v(1,410v according to Asrock timing config). If I enable dram over voltage , it will not boot. 1,435V stable, 1,440 will not boot







im so frustrated..... Please help ? @shamino1978 ? I just ordered a MSI motherboard to see if the problem presists

EDIT: Diffent bioses i have tried :

0021
0034
0053
0072
0811


----------



## ObviousCough

[So] i can boot into windows at 6200 with loose timings, but the XMP of 5600CL36 won't post. I've tried jacking up voltages and other common sense tactics. I haven't had an Asus board since the Rampage III Formula, so the Apex bios is pretty unfamiliar to me and i am probably missing something. 


The SP of my cpu is very low, but i still feel XMP should be possible.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Those settings is 100% stable with all avalible ram (not this photo but same settings) 1,435v(1,410v according to Asrock timing config). If I enable dram over voltage , it will not boot. 1,435V stable, 1,440 will not boot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im so frustrated..... Please help ? @shamino1978 ? I just ordered a MSI motherboard to see if the problem presists
> 
> EDIT: Diffent bioses i have tried :
> 
> 0021
> 0034
> 0053
> 0072
> 0811







u saw dis.


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> u saw dis.


DDR4 to DDR5 ? How is that related ?


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> DDR4 to DDR5 ? How is that related ?


just news on asus crazyness.

ure ram high dram mode on value ram ..
means shamino workaround doesnt work for all pmic.


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> just news on asus crazyness.
> 
> ure ram high dram mode on value ram ..
> means shamino workaround doesnt work for all pmic.


Aha  yeah probably


----------



## SuperMumrik

Carillo said:


> Those settings is 100% stable with all avalible ram (not this photo but same settings) 1,435v(1,410v according to Asrock timing config). If I enable dram over voltage , it will not boot. 1,435V stable, 1,440 will not boot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im so frustrated..... Please help ? @shamino1978 ? I just ordered a MSI motherboard to see if the problem presists
> 
> EDIT: Diffent bioses i have tried :
> 
> 0021
> 0034
> 0053
> 0072
> 0811


Welp! Fix needed 😀 me and @Nizzen got exactly the same Kingston Value (Hynix ic's) sticks incoming as well! 

@sugi0lover are your Kingston modules this article number: KVR48U40BS8-16? Maybe you can shed some insights on this matter?


----------



## mattxx88

why in Norway they sell value rams with hynix and in Italy crappy Micron 
@Nizzen @SuperMumrik can you pm me the shops they sell them? maybe the dispatch all EU


----------



## Carillo

mattxx88 said:


> why in Norway they sell value rams with hynix and in Italy crappy Micron
> @Nizzen @SuperMumrik can you pm me the shops they sell them? maybe the dispatch all EU


They don't. We bought them from California USA.


----------



## Carillo

munternet said:


> Thanks for the reply
> I can't see that ram anywhere. What chips are on the Gskill?


All retail g.skill 5600 and 6000mhz is Samsung. Only G.skil ES sticks are Hynix as far as i know. I have tried 14 G.skill sticks


----------



## Fantik

Hi, I have a 12900K an Asus Z690 Extreme (BIOS 0803) and the G.Skill Trident Z5 6000MHz CL36.
My problem is; 
In XMP1 mode they pass memtest86 that comes with the motherboard, but (TM5 (Extreme1 @anta777)) errors everywhere. Then I put SA 1.125v VDD VDDQ TXVDDQ 1.35v and MC 1.1v and they pass TM5. 
I think it's not ok for one reason. They say in the box that can do 6000MHz CL36 with 1.3v and they can't without errors in TM5. 
What should I do? Or is this the new normal?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## dante`afk

Carillo said:


> Those settings is 100% stable with all avalible ram (not this photo but same settings) 1,435v(1,410v according to Asrock timing config). If I enable dram over voltage , it will not boot. 1,435V stable, 1,440 will not boot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im so frustrated..... Please help ? @shamino1978 ? I just ordered a MSI motherboard to see if the problem presists
> 
> EDIT: Diffent bioses i have tried :
> 
> 0021
> 0034
> 0053
> 0072
> 0811
> 
> View attachment 2540145


think we just need it to give it some months time until they sort out their bioses, until then just run 6200 or 6000.

for me at least, 6400 re-training is a problem with stability, but 6200 I can reboot as often as I want, it remains stable.


----------



## dante`afk

warbucks said:


> What's your CPU power duty and phase control set to?
> 
> What RAM kit are you running again?


both on auto
teamgroup 6400


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result with Hynix 4800 CL40 to 6800 CL28~ (not my OC)


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Welp! Fix needed 😀 me and @Nizzen got exactly the same Kingston Value (Hynix ic's) sticks incoming as well!
> 
> @sugi0lover are your Kingston modules this article number: KVR48U40BS8-16? Maybe you can shed some insights on this matter?


Where can I see this article number?
Anyway, only unlocked bios like 00xx can boot at high voltage options enabled.


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> Where can I see this article number?
> Anyway, only unlocked bios like 00xx can boot at high voltage options enabled.


Edit: I have tried the 00XX bioses


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> think we just need it to give it some months time until they sort out their bioses, until then just run 6200 or 6000.
> 
> for me at least, 6400 re-training is a problem with stability, but 6200 I can reboot as often as I want, it remains stable.


Months ?No way.. i just ordered a MSI Unify-X


----------



## binned

Anyone have the Asus Rog Strix Z690-F motherboard? Which BIOS version is the most stable and working one to get?

I have T Force Delta RGB DDR5 (6200). Can anyone get stable working XMP @ 6200 on this motherboard? Please share what bios version and what I need to do.


----------



## blautemple

I swapped my Z690 Hero for the Z690 Unify-X and i‘m struggeling a bit with the voltages. CPU VDD2 seems to be Memory Controller Voltage but i have no idea how TX VDDQ is named…


----------



## dante`afk

Carillo said:


> Months ?No way.. i just ordered a MSI Unify-X


alright I'll wait for your feedback before I pull the order button and waste testing time


----------



## Carillo

Same issue with 0046 bios.. no boot over 1,435 VDD


----------



## dante`afk

Don’t u think it’s rather ram and imc related? We’ve seen here pictures with apex and blank Hynix chips boot and stable 1.5 or 1.6vdd/q and 6600+


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> Don’t u think it’s rather ram and imc related? We’ve seen here pictures with apex and blank Hynix chips boot and stable 1.5 or 1.6vdd/q and 6600+


they boot 7000mhz as long its under 1,44 VDD


----------



## dante`afk

yea well, your sticks might not like high voltage? well you'll know the answer with the unify-x.


----------



## Gsen999

Can anybody confirm if these are the G.Skill hynix kits: 








F5-5600U3636C16GX2-RS5W, G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32GB (2x | Box.co.uk






www.box.co.uk






F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S, G.Skill Trident Z5 32GB (2x | Box.co.uk


----------



## Lord Alzov

Hello GUYS i am Russian overclocker. Good day i OC my hynix ram.
6600 stable








6800 not stable








On 0811 BIOS i can use ANY voltage 1.6+ vddq 


sugi0lover said:


> Where can I see this article number?
> Anyway, only unlocked bios like 00xx can boot at high voltage options enabled.


Also u can join our Russian discrord if u want





Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities


Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.




discord.gg


----------



## orbitech

Got my 6000c36 kit today. XMP works fine and it's TM5 extreme anta stable with stock voltages. Tried the Samsung 6000 32-35-35-52-87/1t profile and it's not TM5 extreme stable. Any idea on what to loosen first? Thanks for any help


----------



## Nizzen

Gsen999 said:


> Can anybody confirm if these are the G.Skill hynix kits:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F5-5600U3636C16GX2-RS5W, G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32GB (2x | Box.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.box.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5S, G.Skill Trident Z5 32GB (2x | Box.co.uk


Every G.skill 5600-6000 is samsung atm....


----------



## Gsen999

Nizzen said:


> Every G.skill 5600-6000 is samsung atm....


Okay, what's this kit then? https://www.overclock.net/attachments/7200-cl32-jpg.2540022/
6000U4040E 16GB


----------



## Carillo

Gsen999 said:


> Okay, what's this kit then? https://www.overclock.net/attachments/7200-cl32-jpg.2540022/
> 6000U4040E 16GB


That's G.skill engineering sample sticks.... All retail have Samsung


----------



## Gsen999

Carillo said:


> That's G.skill engineering sample sticks.... All retail have Samsung


So for now then only retail hynix kit available is this I assume: Dell Memory Upgrade - 16GB - 1RX8 DDR5 UDIMM 4800MHz | Dell UK

?


----------



## opt33

6200c32 1T unify-x, just ~hour memtest. Want to try 6400c32 or 6200c30 tighter timings before doing overnight runs. Not sure of required volts, this run 1.48vddq, 1.48vdd, 1.26 cpu vddq, 1.24 cpu vdd2


----------



## Lord Alzov

opt33 said:


> 6200c32 1T unify-x, just ~hour memtest. Want to try 6400c32 or 6200c30 tighter timings before doing overnight runs. Not sure of required volts, this run 1.48vddq, 1.48vdd, 1.26 cpu vddq, 1.24 cpu vdd2
> View attachment 2540230


Try test TM5


----------



## orbitech

orbitech said:


> Got my 6000c36 kit today. XMP works fine and it's TM5 extreme anta stable with stock voltages. Tried the Samsung 6000 32-35-35-52-87/1t profile and it's not TM5 extreme stable. Any idea on what to loosen first? Thanks for any help


anyone can help?


----------



## munternet

opt33 said:


> 6200c32 1T unify-x, just ~hour memtest. Want to try 6400c32 or 6200c30 tighter timings before doing overnight runs. Not sure of required volts, this run 1.48vddq, 1.48vdd, 1.26 cpu vddq, 1.24 cpu vdd2
> View attachment 2540230


TM5 and GSAT. At least a short run of each before moving on


----------



## munternet

So overall performance is samsung or hynix better? I know the different die type made a fair difference on DDR4


----------



## munternet

orbitech said:


> Got my 6000c36 kit today. XMP works fine and it's TM5 extreme anta stable with stock voltages. Tried the Samsung 6000 32-35-35-52-87/1t profile and it's not TM5 extreme stable. Any idea on what to loosen first? Thanks for any help


I think you will need to post up more information for people to help


----------



## Gsen999

munternet said:


> So overall performance is samsung or hynix better? I know the different die type made a fair difference on DDR4





munternet said:


> So overall performance is samsung or hynix better? I know the different die type made a fair difference on DDR4


Hynix


----------



## opt33

Lord Alzov said:


> Try test TM5


I use tm5 for quick screening but prefer memtest since tests more configs and harder on mem controller (in my testing). For 24/7 only trust memtest overnight plus prime and aida for couple hours, but each person has their preferences. 

Can screen this change using TM5, but mine set for 3 mins so ran again with increased % per cycle and number cycles, but increased cycle % too much....15mins and just near finishing cycle 1 of 40, little too long for screening for settings ...but since I wasted that 15 mins, here it is:


----------



## satinghostrider

orbitech said:


> anyone can help?


Try running 0046 bios posted just yesterday.
I had tons of problems getting TM5 to even clear 1 cycle with Test 6 always erroring out after a few mins.

After 0046, TM5 clears 3 cycles easily in 10 mins. This is on that 6000C32 preset running 1T on Apex.










I have yet to do any long term stability testing but games like Vanguard is the fastest way to tell how stable your memory is. So far, Vanguard runs without crashing.

So yeah, do try 0046. I think quite a fair bit has even fixed for the 6000c36 sticks. I tried 6000c40 sticks and even XMP1 or 2 is unstable. The 6000C32 preset won't even let me boot into Windows.

Great work @shamino1978


----------



## sugi0lover

My SP103 12900K will be in my friend's hands for a while.
So this is Ram OC with SP91 12900K, which is not as good as SP103.
Even Ram OC requires more voltage like 0.05v higher because SP91's memory contoller is worse that that of SP103.
Anyway this is my daily setup for a while to share.
○ CPU : 12900K (SP91) / all cores (P 5.4Ghz , E 4.2Ghz, Cache 4.4Ghz)
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6600Mhz-28-37-37-26-280-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0046)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.300v(llc7) / VDD 1.590v / VDDQ 1.590v / MC 1.30625v / SA 1.270v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.

[Edit] Cmo file link added





Apex690_6600282T.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> My SP103 12900K will be in my friend's hands for a while.
> So this is Ram OC with SP91 12900K, which is not as good as SP103.
> Even Ram OC requires more voltage like 0.05v higher because SP91's memory contoller is worse that that of SP103.
> Anyway this is my daily setup for a while to share.
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP91) / all cores (P 5.4Ghz , E 4.2Ghz, Cache 4.4Ghz)
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6600Mhz-28-37-37-26-280-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0046)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.300v(llc7) / VDD 1.590v / VDDQ 1.590v / MC 1.30625v / SA 1.270v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2540271


COOL!


----------



## cletus-cassidy

dante`afk said:


> where do you order from? I don't even see them on water cooling
> 
> 
> /edit, all good I found him and ordered block, delid tool and ramblock


I’m interested in this as well. Mind DMing me the contact info?


----------



## orbitech

satinghostrider said:


> Try running 0046 bios posted just yesterday.
> I had tons of problems getting TM5 to even clear 1 cycle with Test 6 always erroring out after a few mins.
> 
> After 0046, TM5 clears 3 cycles easily in 10 mins. This is on that 6000C32 preset running 1T on Apex.
> 
> View attachment 2540274
> 
> 
> I have yet to do any long term stability testing but games like Vanguard is the fastest way to tell how stable your memory is. So far, Vanguard runs without crashing.
> 
> So yeah, do try 0046. I think quite a fair bit has even fixed for the 6000c36 sticks. I tried 6000c40 sticks and even XMP1 or 2 is unstable. The 6000C32 preset won't even let me boot into Windows.
> 
> Great work @shamino1978


Thanks mind posting a link to 0046 ? Appreciate it


----------



## Alberto_It

orbitech said:


> Thanks mind posting a link to 0046 ? Appreciate it











[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Me neither, but there is something called subtitles on youtube Yes in Chinese




www.overclock.net


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> yea well, your sticks might not like high voltage? well you'll know the answer with the unify-x.


You think they are fully stable at 1435mV, but when adding 5mV they will not boot ?might be, but I find that highly
unlikely......I have also tested them individually, same behavior.... Since a certain bios developer refuses to respond to my problem, I guess he don't have an 
answer, so that leaves me no other option then go out and buy another motherboard witch I did..... It's not like I can go pick up another Hynix kit at the local Hynix store.... Happy new year everyone


----------



## Avacado

So I rolled the dice on some Kingston Value RAM here. I couldn't resist for the price. I'll let you know if it ends up being Hynix.









Kingston KVR48U40BS8K2-32 32gb 4800mhz Ddr5 Non-Ecc Cl40 Dimm Kitof2 1rx8 Directship.


Kingston KVR48U40BS8K2-32 kvr48u40bs8k232 32gb 4800mhz Ddr5 Non-Ecc Cl40 Dimm Kitof2 1rx8 Directship shipped for $128.20. Free shipping! Secure purchasing, 30 day return policy.



www.shopblt.com





NVM, just realized there are 253 people ahead of me in the pre-order. Oh well.

Could also try here, but I didn't









Shop


Insight Product |




www.insight.com


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> You think they are fully stable at 1435mV, but when adding 5mV they will not boot ?might be, but I find that highly
> unlikely......I have also tested them individually, same behavior.... Since a certain bios developer refuses to respond to my problem, I guess he don't have an
> answer, so that leaves me no other option then go out and buy another motherboard witch I did..... It's not like I can go pick up another Hynix kit at the local Hynix store.... Happy new year everyone


dude. @safedisk ran hynix value rams, @sugi0lover value rams. tons of ppl do.

@shamino1978 already went above & beyond to get value ram hynix to work with high dram mode.

only your kit seems to have an issue and is reverting back to norm pmic.


----------



## cstkl1

is there a post of msi:evga:giga with hynix value ram with high dram mode??

did i miss something ?


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> is there a post of msi:evga:giga with hynix value ram with high dram mode??
> 
> did i miss something ?


Your point is ? Yes even Gigabyte


cstkl1 said:


> dude. @safedisk ran hynix value rams, @sugi0lover value rams. tons of ppl do.
> 
> Your point is ?


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Your point is ? Yes even Gigabyte


the point is its a workaround ... 

giga can run value ram hynix high dram mode?


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> the point is its a workaround ...
> 
> giga can run value ram hynix high dram mode?


I still do not understand what your point is? I explain my problem and then explain what I think is the best solution to the problem based on the information I have right now. If you have a suggested solution that is better than mine? Please share


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> I still do not understand what your point is? I explain my problem and then explain what I think is the best solution to the problem based on the information I have right now. If you have a suggested solution that is better than mine? Please share


send it to taiwan, ask him nicely to spend hours

btw whats your best solution? i tried looking through your post. none except you cant run high dram mode.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Find a balance between VDD/VDDQ and SA/MC. TX VDDQ I leave it on auto. For me best bios is 0806 atm.
> 
> Some values I use that could help:
> 1.40v VDD 1.25v VDDQ (6200C30 1T)
> 1.45v VDD 1.35v VDDQ (6400C30 1T)
> 1.50v VDD 1.45v VDDQ (6600C30 1T auto timings)
> 
> Higher VDD doesn’t boot in my case. Not sure if it’s ram issue or bios.


thats insane scaling. mine same as ddr4 hynix ram scaling every 200mhz , 0.1v for same tcl. 
tcl 28 to 32 is every 2 0.05v
only c26 is 0.1v jump


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> send it to taiwan, ask him nicely to spend hours
> 
> btw whats your best solution? i tried looking through your post. none except you cant run high dram mode.


The bunch of people you refer to is you and two other guys ? Or do you have a list ? My current solution, buy another motherboard.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> The bunch of people you refer to is you and two other guys ? Or do you have a list ? My current solution, buy another motherboard.


the fae bro. send to asus taiwan fae

and is that other board..brand. have u seen them ocing value ram hynix kit with high dram mode?
if yes do u mind sharing dat post


----------



## SoldierRBT

cstkl1 said:


> thats insane scaling. mine same as ddr4 hynix ram scaling every 200mhz , 0.1v for same tcl.
> tcl 28 to 32 is every 2 0.05v
> only c26 is 0.1v jump


6200C30 and 6400C30 1T are stable. 6600C30 1T only boots with that voltage. I tried others combinations with higher vdd but it doesn’t boot. I’d guess I need 1.55+ to get it stable.

6200C28 1T tight timings needs 1.50v VDD to be stable. C28 needs a ton of voltage.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> 6200C30 and 6400C30 1T are stable. 6600C30 1T only boots with that voltage. I tried others combinations with higher vdd but it doesn’t boot. I’d guess I need 1.55+ to get it stable.
> 
> 6200C28 1T tight timings needs 1.50v VDD to be stable. C28 needs a ton of voltage.


for my rams 6400c30 = 1.5, c28 1.55, c26 1.65


----------



## shamino1978

Carillo said:


> You think they are fully stable at 1435mV, but when adding 5mV they will not boot ?might be, but I find that highly
> unlikely......I have also tested them individually, same behavior.... Since a certain bios developer refuses to respond to my problem, I guess he don't have an
> answer, so that leaves me no other option then go out and buy another motherboard witch I did..... It's not like I can go pick up another Hynix kit at the local Hynix store.... Happy new year everyone


if youre refering to me,
then yes im not sure
if its a renasas pmic, then the high voltage mode should work whether secure or not. that is my assumption.
that then only leaves 1 ~ 2 other background items that may switch over to a different path when voltage is above 1435, i will check those 2 items next week.


----------



## Alberto_It

shamino1978 said:


> if youre refering to me,
> then yes im not sure
> if its a renasas pmic, then the high voltage mode should work whether secure or not. that is my assumption.
> that then only leaves 1 ~ 2 other background items that may switch over to a different path when voltage is above 1435, i will check those 2 items next week.


Don't forget Apex's presets profiles for Samsung chips dram that sometimes are not stable.

Tried yesterday the presets profile 6000 cl32 and I had two bsod and one crash on Halo Infinite game. Thanks for all the support you give us every time we need @shamino1978


----------



## shamino1978

Alberto_It said:


> Don't forget Apex's presets profiles for Samsung chips dram that sometimes are not stable.
> 
> Tried yesterday the presets profile 6000 cl32 and I had two bsod and one crash on Halo Infinite game. Thanks for all the support you give us every time we need @shamino1978


there are other people with success with the profiles, you can source for help from those.
theres no garantee the profiles will work, its just a suggested starting point. and please dont make it a habit to keep repeating the same statements everytime you make a reply, it is unnecessary and i am not that blind.


----------



## Alberto_It

shamino1978 said:


> there are other people with success with the profiles, you can source for help from those.
> theres no garantee the profiles will work, its just a suggested starting point. and please dont make it a habit to keep repeating the same statements everytime you make a reply, it is unnecessary and i am not that blind.


Ok, sorry


----------



## Carillo

shamino1978 said:


> if youre refering to me,
> then yes im not sure
> if its a renasas pmic, then the high voltage mode should work whether secure or not. that is my assumption.
> that then only leaves 1 ~ 2 other background items that may switch over to a different path when voltage is above 1435, i will check those 2 items next week.


Thanks. Appreciate it !


----------



## SuperMumrik

shamino1978 said:


> i will check those 2 items next week.


This is great news!☺
I was getting worried as me and @Nizzen got same Kingston sticks coming next week


----------



## Carillo

I just bought these... just in case. Anyone like to share some Dell-love ?


----------



## Thebc2

Been following this thread closely as I worked on sourcing my components. Got lucky and got a set of tforce 6400 for retail and working on my 12th gen refresh this weekend. 

Haven’t seen much news one way or the tforce 6400 sticks. Anyone placing bets on whether I’ll be able to run these at XMP on an Extreme?. Obviously will be tweaking but I don’t have a lot of faith these will run at default XMP even though they are on the QVL. 

PFA











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Forsaken1

Gigabyte Ultra & Tachyon have very little issue with memory voltages on dell Hynix..Create your own custom XMP profile in bios.
Tachyon does it better.Screen shot from ultra.Not perfect on dell but more is better.
This handy tool is the ****.Bye Bye typhoon burner.The secret is outta the bag..











Sum Dell Luvin


----------



## centvalny

Apex bios 0056 with random Dell hynix 4800 @ 1.6 vdd/vddq and 1.375 mc
Im testing bios 0021 now for 6933c30. Thanks @cstkl1 @shamino1978

















Bios 0021


----------



## dante`afk

how'd u order those dell sticks I seee them only in Malaysia and HK


----------



## warbucks

dante`afk said:


> how'd u order those dell sticks I seee them only in Malaysia and HK


Was about the ask the same question.


----------



## orbitech

Alberto_It said:


> Don't forget Apex's presets profiles for Samsung chips dram that sometimes are not stable.
> 
> Tried yesterday the presets profile 6000 cl32 and I had two bsod and one crash on Halo Infinite game. Thanks for all the support you give us every time we need @shamino1978


For me the 6000c32 seems to be perfectly stable. Tested with TM5 different configs,memtest pro and karhu, run many benchmarks and games including Halo Infinite which I played for an hour or so today w/o issues.
The only thing that seems to be the norm are the relatively high temps. Those sticks run hot and I'm glad I didn't go for the rgb model which adds to the temp at these speeds and latencies.. They need a fan at least blowing at them especially when you run demanding benchmarks, pmic seems to be naked..
Don't know if it helps but make sure you default in bios before you apply the preset. Thus far from yesterday I didn't have any issues at all (crosses fingers)

Happy new year to everyone!


----------



## munternet

Are all Dell 4800 DDR5 sticks Hynix?
Looks like 2x 1packs instead of sequential numbered pairs


----------



## Forsaken1

I may have a set of dell hynix up for grabs..If pockets are deep......DM.

Gigabyte rolling out cpu prediction in the form of Biscuits rating.This is on my Tachyon.Some items removed/covered.












centvalny said:


> Apex bios 0056 with random Dell hynix 4800 @ 1.6 vdd/vddq and 1.375 mc
> Im testing bios 0021 now for 6933c30. Thanks @cstkl1 @shamino1978
> 
> Bios 0021



You always do fine work.Assume going for max frequency with the gear4?Keep pushin.
Happy New Year All.


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> I may have a set of dell hynix up for grabs..If pockets are deep......DM.
> 
> Gigabyte rolling out cpu prediction in the form of Biscuits rating.This is on my Tachyon.Some items removed/covered.
> 
> View attachment 2540414
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always do fine work.Assume going for max frequency with the gear4?Keep pushin.
> Happy New Year All.


do you know for 24/7 is 1.5v vdd2/mc voltage safe?


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> do you know for 24/7 is 1.5v vdd2/mc voltage safe?


I know what I am comfortable with but……..
I prefer to defer the question to:
Gear 2.Ambient air no bs.


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> I know what I am comfortable with but……..
> I prefer to defer the question to:
> Gear 2.Ambient air no bs.


he seems to have trouble finding the tx voltage and imc voltage in gigabyte bios.
given lots of users sharing their >6600mhz on apex, 1.57v mc seems too much.


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> he seems to have trouble finding the tx voltage and imc voltage in gigabyte bios.
> given lots of users sharing their >6600mhz on apex, 1.57v mc seems too much.


Devil is always in the details.Dissect video/posts/results and the bs is there. States his on alder lake with a air cooler.Are you fin kidding me and a poor memory over locker..This says it all.30 minute video with 5 minutes of content.Video was posted as several voltage question are answered from giga thru him.

Cheers time to get my buzz on.


----------



## owikh84

Anybody know what IC used in Kingston Fury Beast DDR5-6000 CL40 2x16GB 1.35V kit?
P/N is KF560C40BB-16.

Kingston FURY™ Beast DDR5 Memory - 16GB, 32GB/4800MHz, 5200MHz, 5600MHz, 6000MHz - Kingston Technology


----------



## Alberto_It

owikh84 said:


> Anybody know what IC used in Kingston Fury Beast DDR5-6000 CL40 2x16GB 1.35V kit?
> P/N is KF560C40BB-16.
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Beast DDR5 Memory - 16GB, 32GB/4800MHz, 5200MHz, 5600MHz, 6000MHz - Kingston Technology


@ZeroStrat have tested it


----------



## ssgwright

how beneficial is it to bump the mc voltage, haven't tried that yet, currently running 6200mhz 38,38,38,68 decent but I'm so close to having 6400 stable with good timings but it always errors eventually and I was wondering if bumping the mc might help?


----------



## Nizzen

ssgwright said:


> how beneficial is it to bump the mc voltage, haven't tried that yet, currently running 6200mhz 38,38,38,68 decent but I'm so close to having 6400 stable with good timings but it always errors eventually and I was wondering if bumping the mc might help?


It's all about finding the right combination on vdd/vddqd and mc.
Cooling must be in place first. Cool is always better. Under 65c is a must.
Watercooled is allways better.


----------



## inedenimadam

Hey guys. I am having a very odd issue, and I think I may have inadvertently done severe damage to two different memory kits.
Specs:
Z690 Apex
12900k SP99
32Gb Samsung 6000 C36
64Gb Hynix 4800 C32

The issues started with the Samsung kit. When I first built the system on a bench, I could easily hit the Asus profile from the DRAM timings tab, and even managed to boot up to 6600 loosening up the timings (never fully stabilized 6600). XMP worked, and I gamed on it for a few days. I played with the hynix kit a bit, but it is dual rank, and it was going to take some effort at 6000, but it booted it, and I could run benchmarks with it. 
Then I built the system inside the 011D, watercooled it, set up the RGB, and started installing games. And this is where the problem started. Whenever I would boot from a powered off state, the system would appear stable for a while, but then crash again, and the DRAM was pretty obviously the culprit. It seemed hit or miss if CPU-Z could even read the SPD table, and I basically could only run either kit at stock volts and stock clocks. I took it apart and built it again on the test bench, where I had better results, but was still getting worse results with the DRAM.

Until today. I was doing a DDU for graphics drivers, and when I booted into safe mode...SPD was 100% working again, and all of the sensors were showing in HWiNFO64. reboot after fresh driver install, and low and behold SPD gone, and sensors missing.

This is the best I have come up with as to what is happening:

Whenever the "openRGB" service starts, I get a PMIC high temperature warning in HWinfo, the wattage goes to 30+W per dimm. 


Here is the samsung sticks without open RGB open.









And here it is again a minute later when I open "OpenRGB".









How in the hell could this be happening? This doesn't make sense AT ALL.


----------



## shamino1978

inedenimadam said:


> Hey guys. I am having a very odd issue, and I think I may have inadvertently done severe damage to two different memory kits.
> Specs:
> Z690 Apex
> 12900k SP99
> 32Gb Samsung 6000 C36
> 64Gb Hynix 4800 C32
> 
> The issues started with the Samsung kit. When I first built the system on a bench, I could easily hit the Asus profile from the DRAM timings tab, and even managed to boot up to 6600 loosening up the timings (never fully stabilized 6600). XMP worked, and I gamed on it for a few days. I played with the hynix kit a bit, but it is dual rank, and it was going to take some effort at 6000, but it booted it, and I could run benchmarks with it.
> Then I built the system inside the 011D, watercooled it, set up the RGB, and started installing games. And this is where the problem started. Whenever I would boot from a powered off state, the system would appear stable for a while, but then crash again, and the DRAM was pretty obviously the culprit. It seemed hit or miss if CPU-Z could even read the SPD table, and I basically could only run either kit at stock volts and stock clocks. I took it apart and built it again on the test bench, where I had better results, but was still getting worse results with the DRAM.
> 
> Until today. I was doing a DDU for graphics drivers, and when I booted into safe mode...SPD was 100% working again, and all of the sensors were showing in HWiNFO64. reboot after fresh driver install, and low and behold SPD gone, and sensors missing.
> 
> This is the best I have come up with as to what is happening:
> 
> Whenever the "openRGB" service starts, I get a PMIC high temperature warning in HWinfo, the wattage goes to 30+W per dimm.
> 
> 
> Here is the samsung sticks without open RGB open.
> View attachment 2540482
> 
> 
> And here it is again a minute later when I open "OpenRGB".
> View attachment 2540483
> 
> 
> How in the hell could this be happening? This doesn't make sense AT ALL.


The two apps are racing to access the bus so are reading off each others data. Dont run both simultaneously


----------



## inedenimadam

shamino1978 said:


> The two apps are racing to access the bus so are reading off each others data. Dont run both simultaneously


I thought that too, but why does it not affect any other of the sensors in HWiNFO? I guess since I have the samsung kit naked at the moment, I can physically check the temp of the PMIC with my finger tip.

Edit: it appears that you are correct. There was no noticable heat difference with openrgb on or off. It may still be doing something to the dram though, because the inability to read the SPD is persistent through soft reboots. Only after I completely power down the board does SPD detection return.


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Anybody know what IC used in Kingston Fury Beast DDR5-6000 CL40 2x16GB 1.35V kit?
> P/N is KF560C40BB-16.
> 
> Kingston FURY Beast DDR5 Memory - 16GB, 32GB/4800MHz, 5200MHz, 5600MHz, 6000MHz - Kingston Technology


That part number is for 16GB kit (2x8GB). For 32GB kit part number is KF560C40BBK2-32. I got this 32GB kit and it is Hynix.


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> That part number is for 16GB kit (2x8GB). For 32GB kit part number is KF560C40BBK2-32. I got this 32GB kit and it is Hynix.


Thank you for the confirmation. Would love to try Hynix so looks like I'm going to pull the trigger buying this kit as it's now available in my country. TQVM.


----------



## bigfootnz

Yes, I was under impression that I’ll get Samsung, but it was Hynix. Sadly I’ve Hero and not Apex, and at the moment I’m able to run it 6200 30-38-38-58-2T stable.


----------



## Nizzen

6200mhz stable 1500% "stable" yeasterday. Today 2022 and it failed at 32% 😂 

/Overclockers life


----------



## Carillo

centvalny said:


> Apex bios 0056 with random Dell hynix 4800 @ 1.6 vdd/vddq and 1.375 mc
> Im testing bios 0021 now for 6933c30. Thanks @cstkl1 @shamino1978
> View attachment 2540382
> 
> View attachment 2540380
> 
> Bios 0021
> View attachment 2540383


Nice results there... But why does Cpu-z reports Corsair (6000c36) as dram manufacturer ?


----------



## yahfz

Thebc2 said:


> Been following this thread closely as I worked on sourcing my components. Got lucky and got a set of tforce 6400 for retail and working on my 12th gen refresh this weekend.
> 
> Haven’t seen much news one way or the tforce 6400 sticks. Anyone placing bets on whether I’ll be able to run these at XMP on an Extreme?. Obviously will be tweaking but I don’t have a lot of faith these will run at default XMP even though they are on the QVL.


XMP won't work, it will be unstable regardless of what bios/asus mobo you use, so get ready to tweak. Should be fine on the unify-x though.


----------



## mattxx88

dante`afk said:


> how'd u order those dell sticks I seee them only in Malaysia and HK


They were available on ebay.com

@Carillo will you test those Dell with Asus mobo too or only MSI?


----------



## centvalny

@Carillo Oops my bad. Sshot fixed, I used same settings for both sticks.


----------



## Carillo

mattxx88 said:


> They were available on ebay.com
> 
> @Carillo will you test those Dell with Asus mobo too or only MSI?


Yes, will test them on Apex.


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> how'd u order those dell sticks I seee them only in Malaysia and HK


I bought mine on Ebay. Some dude in Michigan. 420 dollar


----------



## Carillo

Anyone sitting on 0022 bios for Apex ?


----------



## destylock

What’s the best OC settings for Gskill 6000 C36 ?


----------



## Carillo

destylock said:


> What’s the best OC settings for Gskill 6000 C36 ?


4800 cl40 

Kidding aside, 6400 cl30 2t is possible if your dims is up for the task

My results with samsung : 
6400 c30









6600 c34


----------



## destylock

Carillo said:


> 4800 cl40
> 
> Kidding aside, 6400 cl30 2t is possible if your dims is up for the task
> 
> My results with samsung :
> 6400 c30
> View attachment 2540501
> 
> 
> 6600 c34
> View attachment 2540502


Did you use any of the memory presets in Asus bios ?


----------



## Carillo

destylock said:


> Did you use any of the memory presets in Asus bios ?


No


----------



## Forsaken1

Ambient 21c.Naked ram with fan.Bench-able not 24/7.Maybe next session.Tips?


----------



## Carillo

Forsaken1 said:


> Ambient 21c.Naked ram with fan.Bench-able not 24/7.Maybe next session.Tips?
> 
> View attachment 2540525


Really nice work on naked DELL ram  Disable e-cores to reduce latency, and set tras 32 ? Trdrd_sg 11, twrwr_sg 9, trrd_L 4, twr 10, tcke 0 and all your DR an DD to 0, looks cleaner


----------



## destylock

Carillo said:


> No


Can you 24/7 those voltages ?

seems very high.


----------



## Carillo

destylock said:


> Can you 24/7 those voltages ?
> 
> seems very high.


yes, but they are on water


----------



## ObviousCough

I can't post with tCL set below 40 in the BIOS. Once I make it into windows though, i can drop down to 36 and pass TM5 extreme. I've tried many different combinations of voltages.


----------



## dante`afk

warbucks said:


> Was about the ask the same question.





mattxx88 said:


> They were available on ebay.com
> 
> @Carillo will you test those Dell with Asus mobo too or only MSI?





Carillo said:


> I bought mine on Ebay. Some dude in Michigan. 420 dollar



as Dell HK and MY require HK/MY shipping address and payment from, you can use something like Tiprans.com

I just did that and ordered 2x16gb


----------



## mattxx88

dante`afk said:


> as Dell HK and MY require HK/MY shipping address and payment from, you can use something like Tiprans.com
> 
> I just did that and ordered 2x16gb


im using planet express, waiting for a kingston value kit as first try, from USA
im curious to see if mine have same carillo's issue with high voltage mode


----------



## cstkl1

destylock said:


> What’s the best OC settings for Gskill 6000 C36 ?


run 0811 see whether u can pass xmp.
if yes then try asus 6kc32 preset
set 1T for apex, auto cmd on 4dimm mobo


----------



## satinghostrider

I've had extremely bad luck on *2 kits* of DDR5 memory.

*6000c36 kit* - Failed even XMP1 and XMP2. 6000C32 preset extremely unstable but bootable to windows. Vanguard is instant crash even at lobby. Adjusted combination of voltages no dice. Appears to be faulty as none of it ran on all 4 bios I tried including XMP1 and XMP2. Going to RMA this on Monday.

*6000c40 kit* - Only XMP2 is stable. 60000C32 preset doesn't even boot to Windows. BSOD while loading windows. Bad lottery. Did not bother to test further. XMP1 totally not stable. Even tried relaxing some main timings still not stable.

5600C36 kit - Did not try XMP at all. 6000C32 kit works very well but still crashes in Vanguard. Adjusted VDD down to 1.415V, MC to 1.3V and SA to 0.95V. VDDTXQ is as per Asus Preset at 1.4375V. Stable so far. Played Vanguard 2 hours no issues. Rebooted 3 times including 1 shutdown and tried gaming. So far so good.

I'm getting a feel that some of these higher end kits are extremely tightly binned or just plain defective (Not able to run advertised XMP profiles with stability; JEDEC is fine.) . I tried 4 Bios on the first 2 kits with 0010,0015,0811 and 0046. More than the bios, I think these RAMs you guys gotta check if it's stable on XMP1 or XMP2 first and maybe try 0046 and 0811 before concluding if it's a bios issue. Start with 0811 first. They will either run XMP1 or XMP2 and if you're lucky you can use the 6000C32 preset but you gotta do some adjustments based on your kit.

@Nizzen is right. These Gskills, the lottery is real as much as the combination of voltages to get them working correctly. You can't brute force these sticks with higher voltages at a certain frequency. I found adjusting the voltages downwards did much more for me but YMMV based on your silicon. And TestMem5 is extremely accurate based on my gameplay with Vanguard. You can do a quick test by trying to game on Vanguard and cross-check with TM5 from time to time. I found this the best way as sometimes the runs from TM5 may pass but you might crash after an hour in Vanguard. You definitely need to micro-adjust these voltages initially. But after that it appears to be stable. I'm still testing but I'm pretty happy as this is the furthest I've got so far and I'm glad to be running the 6000C32 preset at 1T well so far. Well, it's an Apex board that's the point isn't it?

If you guys are having issues with the 6000C32 preset, it is worth dialing down your vdd voltages (trial and error; I started with 1.4 and worked my way up to 1.415V for stability) and setting the rest to the above as listed with my 5600c36 kit. Keep VDDTXQ stock as per Asus Preset at 1.4375V.

Thanks @cstkl1 for isolating each factor one by one tirelessly with me. It was extremely frustrating to the point I wanted to go back to my 11900k. 😂


----------



## Alberto_It

@cstkl1 Hi, they told me you're a magician with ram settings.

Here's my Bios profile settings, can you please help me to lower the timings?

Thank you in advance


----------



## satinghostrider

Alberto_It said:


> @cstkl1 Hi, they told me you're a magician with ram settings.
> 
> Here's my Bios profile settings, can you please help me to lower the timings?
> 
> Thank you in advance


If you aren't even stable on XMP1 or XMP2, there isn't any point to manually drop those timings. Some kits are either extremely tightly binned or they just don't run XMP at all with stability. You gotta figure out first if XMP runs properly. I'm starting to believe it's not entirely bios issues but the ram sticks themselves. Too much variance.


----------



## cstkl1

Alberto_It said:


> @cstkl1 Hi, they told me you're a magician with ram settings.
> 
> Here's my Bios profile settings, can you please help me to lower the timings?
> 
> Thank you in advance


can u run xmp cmd auto on 0811 

there seems to huge variation on samsung binning by gskill.


----------



## Alberto_It

satinghostrider said:


> If you aren't even stable on XMP1 or XMP2, there isn't any point to manually drop those timings. Some kits are either extremely tightly binned or they just don't run XMP at all with stability. You gotta figure out first if XMP runs properly. I'm starting to believe it's not entirely bios issues but the ram sticks themselves. Too much variance.


I'm stable with 0031 @shamino1978 Bios with XMP I profile


----------



## Alberto_It

cstkl1 said:


> can u run xmp cmd auto on 0811
> 
> there seems to huge variation on samsung binning by gskill.


 I'm using XMP profile I and default timings are stable.


----------



## cstkl1

Alberto_It said:


> I'm using XMP profile I and default timings are stable.


will check on your timing. asus preset is sound most part except tccd 1 ( i prefer 8)


----------



## Alberto_It

cstkl1 said:


> will check on your timing. asus preset is sound most part except tccd 1 ( i prefer 8)


Thank you very much, if you glad to continue on private conversation when you have a little time for helping me. I'm a ultra newbie on memory and I need the settings/changes of timings on details. 

🙏


----------



## Xeq54

I am sorry for being a noob in advance, but I could really use some help as I am struggling here.

Its not that I am a complete noob, on my previous x299 platform I had no issues overclocking and optimising timings on DDR4, but here I am just lost and finally I have decided to ask for help.

I have Asus HERO on 0811 bios with G.Skill samsung RAM (6000Mhz CL36 kit) XMP is rock stable in TM5 extreme multiple passes. Mobo has the capacitor with correct polarity.

My problem in short: No matter what I do, anything except XMP1/2 or default jedec does not post. I have tried the following:

I have tried the samsung 6000 CL32 profile, upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
Samsung 6000 CL36 profile (which is very close to XMP which works), upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
Starting from XMP, tried tightening just the primaries slightly and then upping DRAM voltages from 1.3 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
Clearing CMOS before each of the above
Tried several custom configs posted by users with the same RAM in this thread
Tried all of the above with different 6000Mhz CL36 G.Skill kit
No matter what I did I never got it to POST/Pass training. At this point I am sure I am missing something small which makes all of this fail as I am sure the kit can do something more than stock XMP.


----------



## stn1

MRC Fast boot = disabled? In timings window.


----------



## Avacado

Xeq54 said:


> I am sorry for being a noob in advance, but I could really use some help as I am struggling here.
> 
> Its not that I am a complete noob, on my previous x299 platform I had no issues overclocking and optimising timings on DDR4, but here I am just lost and finally I have decided to ask for help.
> 
> I have Asus HERO on 0811 bios with G.Skill samsung RAM (6000Mhz CL36 kit) XMP is rock stable in TM5 extreme multiple passes. Mobo has the capacitor with correct polarity.
> 
> My problem in short: No matter what I do, anything except XMP1/2 or default jedec does not post. I have tried the following:
> 
> I have tried the samsung 6000 CL32 profile, upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Samsung 6000 CL36 profile (which is very close to XMP which works), upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Starting from XMP, tried tightening just the primaries slightly and then upping DRAM voltages from 1.3 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Clearing CMOS before each of the above
> Tried several custom configs posted by users with the same RAM in this thread
> Tried all of the above with different 6000Mhz CL36 G.Skill kit
> No matter what I did I never got it to POST/Pass training. At this point I am sure I am missing something small which makes all of this fail as I am sure the kit can do something more than stock XMP.


Welcome to Samsung memory. All hail Hynix.


----------



## Carillo

Xeq54 said:


> I am sorry for being a noob in advance, but I could really use some help as I am struggling here.
> 
> Its not that I am a complete noob, on my previous x299 platform I had no issues overclocking and optimising timings on DDR4, but here I am just lost and finally I have decided to ask for help.
> 
> I have Asus HERO on 0811 bios with G.Skill samsung RAM (6000Mhz CL36 kit) XMP is rock stable in TM5 extreme multiple passes. Mobo has the capacitor with correct polarity.
> 
> My problem in short: No matter what I do, anything except XMP1/2 or default jedec does not post. I have tried the following:
> 
> I have tried the samsung 6000 CL32 profile, upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Samsung 6000 CL36 profile (which is very close to XMP which works), upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Starting from XMP, tried tightening just the primaries slightly and then upping DRAM voltages from 1.3 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Clearing CMOS before each of the above
> Tried several custom configs posted by users with the same RAM in this thread
> Tried all of the above with different 6000Mhz CL36 G.Skill kit
> No matter what I did I never got it to POST/Pass training. At this point I am sure I am missing something small which makes all of this fail as I am sure the kit can do something more than stock XMP.


Clear cmos, set 6200 32.35.35.52 2t. SA auto, VDD/Q 1,5,diable fast boot and MCH full check... leave everything else on auto. Remeber to hold cmos for at least 10 seconds. Have patience when training samsung, grab a coffee and watch a movie. If post, start working with secondary timings.


----------



## DanGleeballs

I'm on Samsung too now... 
No profiles on Aorus Pro for Samsung but easy so far although never going to be pushing as hard as you guys. 
Corsair Dominators cl36 5600 to cl36 6000. Have seen latency as low as 62 loads of stuff running now though.


----------



## opt33

Xeq54 said:


> I am sorry for being a noob in advance, but I could really use some help as I am struggling here.
> 
> Its not that I am a complete noob, on my previous x299 platform I had no issues overclocking and optimising timings on DDR4, but here I am just lost and finally I have decided to ask for help.
> 
> I have Asus HERO on 0811 bios with G.Skill samsung RAM (6000Mhz CL36 kit) XMP is rock stable in TM5 extreme multiple passes. Mobo has the capacitor with correct polarity.
> 
> My problem in short: No matter what I do, anything except XMP1/2 or default jedec does not post. I have tried the following:
> 
> I have tried the samsung 6000 CL32 profile, upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Samsung 6000 CL36 profile (which is very close to XMP which works), upping DRAM voltages from 1.43 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Starting from XMP, tried tightening just the primaries slightly and then upping DRAM voltages from 1.3 - 1.55 in increments and MC voltages from 1.0 to 1.35 in increments
> Clearing CMOS before each of the above
> Tried several custom configs posted by users with the same RAM in this thread
> Tried all of the above with different 6000Mhz CL36 G.Skill kit
> No matter what I did I never got it to POST/Pass training. At this point I am sure I am missing something small which makes all of this fail as I am sure the kit can do something more than stock XMP.


The presets on Hero board are all CR1 so none of the presets are going to train/boot unless change those 2 settings, because 4 dimm hero wont train/boot CR1. Pretty sure those presets were made on apex 2 dimm board. Basically do what Carillo said and forget presets on Hero, beside those presets crank volts higher for CR1 which you wont be doing anyways.


----------



## JKurz

I hear the Triden tZ5 series is great for XMP


----------



## orbitech

I don't have np whatsoever with 6000c32 XMP profile or switching between the stock one and this. I can do everything I ask my kit to do, it trains every single time, I'm TM5 stable with open case and a fan blowing at them, but once I close my case and play for a couple of hrs I'll get freezing issues in CP2077 or Halo Infinite.
I tried lowering the SA voltage to 1.0V for the time being (Asus uses 1.25 when left in auto) and check if that helps with the generating heat issues..

Are these purely heating issues (for which I suspect Asus don't have QVL support for 6000C36 yet, until they iron out these) or maybe voltage/timing related?


----------



## snakeeyes111

6400 1t on Samsung
Start karhu again for a longer test. 








Temp sensor just kidding. Min max water and avg temp for real temps. Dimms watercooled


----------



## DanGleeballs

orbitech said:


> I don't have np whatsoever with 6000c32 XMP profile or switching between the stock one and this. I can do everything I ask my kit to do, it trains every single time, I'm TM5 stable with open case and a fan blowing at them, but once I close my case and play for a couple of hrs I'll get freezing issues in CP2077 or Halo Infinite.
> I tried lowering the SA voltage to 1.0V for the time being (Asus uses 1.25 when left in auto) and check if that helps with the generating heat issues..
> 
> Are these purely heating issues (for which I suspect Asus don't have QVL support for 6000C36 yet, until they iron out these) or maybe voltage/timing related?


On a previous post (that I cant find) someone mentioned about temperature related timings.
I do remember tREFI is definitely heat sensitive and can kick you back to desktop very fast when gaming.
I see most people are maxing this out DDR5 so maybe not.


----------



## orbitech

DanGleeballs said:


> On a previous post (that I cant find) someone mentioned about temperature related timings.
> I do remember tREFI is definitely heat sensitive and can kick you back to desktop very fast when gaming.
> I see most people are maxing this out DDR5 so maybe not.


Thanks but I don't have CTD,rather than freezing issues after a considerable amount of time of gaming. Is this solely voltage related? Because in both default 6000c36 and 6000c32 profile I can run benchmarks just fine w/o issues and game until this particular freeze issue appears. Haven't touched voltages alot, played only with SA voltage but w/o any particular success..


----------



## DanGleeballs

orbitech said:


> Thanks but I don't have CTD,rather than freezing issues after a considerable amount of time of gaming. Is this solely voltage related? Because in both default 6000c36 and 6000c32 profile I can run benchmarks just fine w/o issues and game until this particular freeze issue appears. Haven't touched voltages alot, played only with SA voltage but w/o any particular success..


Yeah should have said freezing and or CTD.
ADL and Z690 really is a learning curve. Last night was getting stuttering in games because SA was too low. For some reason I need loads more than most here.


----------



## Vld

opt33 said:


> Just installed MSI 690 unify-x to replace Hero with upside down cap. Wanted to try MSI and 2 dimm board. Still need to tighten timings to improve latency but first wanted to see if 1T, trains and runs memtest, so far no problem. 4 dimm board wouldnt even train 1T. 1.43 vdd/vddq, cpu vddq1.24, no idea necessary volts yet, first oc boot.
> 
> View attachment 2540126


After having Asus boards only for last couple of years i also bought Unify-X to replace z590 Apex with 11900K.

Still messing around with overclocks, first impression - board is rock solid, it will eat everything you throw at it, atm best mem overclock is 6400 32/35/35/52 1T, 51/41 all core, ring 43, vcore 1.245 at load ( no idea how good or bad my 12900k ) so far over 30000 in CB23, 864 / 12200 Cpu-z bench score. Last thing left to do - lower voltages to get better temps.


----------



## Darius40e10

To those in europe who still dont have kits, here you go if you have a friend in portugal.

pcdiga has kits for sale in stock and next day delivery and/or shipping.

for my spanish bros you have a retailer called pccomponentes might have a different name in spain thats what it is called in portugal with kits being shipped within a week. this I cant confirm.

I would post direct links but I cant remember if Im allowed or not.

If im late and everyone already has kits Im sorry I wasted your time and mine.


----------



## orbitech

DanGleeballs said:


> Yeah should have said freezing and or CTD.
> ADL and Z690 really is a learning curve. Last night was getting stuttering in games because SA was too low. For some reason I need loads more than most here.


BTW tried maxing out tREFI but it only made Halo Infinite more unstable for me , it ctd quicker. Didn't freeze just ctd with tREFI maxed out..Previously I didn't have CTDs only freezes.
It seems same thing happens to me with lower SA.. Somehow lower SA (0.95-1V) is more unstable in games. I really hope we'll see a bios which will make the XMP profile stable (I know for the time being Asus don't support 6000c36 officially yet). I might try manually 40-40-40-76 tomorrow to see if it will be rock solid as a profile in games.
The concerning issue is that I can't seem to find a pattern here. Sometimes default XMP profile is more stable in games sometimes 6000c32 is.. A vast difference in voltages between both profiles also


----------



## DanGleeballs

@orbitech Its this sort of stuff that keeps me in the safe zone as far as memory oc goes.
I guess you just need to find that balance of all your voltages. Also tRFC may need to go looser to cope with higher gaming temps that would defiantly cause the freeze if its only just stable at your test bench temps. Easy one to try.
Edit. Had freeze when tRDWRs too tight


----------



## destylock

So which kits have Hynix memory. My GSKILL 6000C36 barely runs at 6400C32. Should I leave SA at 1.05 or put it higher?

Also is 1.5v daily on samsung dies fine?


----------



## Nizzen

destylock said:


> So which kits have Hynix memory. My GSKILL 6000C36 barely runs at 6400C32. Should I leave SA at 1.05 or put it higher?
> 
> Also is 1.5v daily on samsung dies fine?


T-force 6200/6400
Corsair Beast 6000 (atleast the revision that came first)
V-color 6000/6200

No g.skill ATM. Only the first ES

List may be longer on confirmed Hynix.
1.5 daily is no problem with good cooling. (Who care anyway if they die in 5-6 years LOL)


----------



## snakeeyes111

J4f 6600 1t on Samsung.


----------



## Nizzen

snakeeyes111 said:


> View attachment 2540728
> View attachment 2540729
> 
> 
> J4f 6600 1t on Samsung.


No more info?


----------



## snakeeyes111

Crashed after 4rd try on ns bench 😂.

Maybe in a few days, if i can do more stable boots. But need to run more 6400 1t for 100% daily stability. Often one reboot kill the whole setting, so i have to Check this first. Was only a fast try for 66001t on the g skills


----------



## inedenimadam

satinghostrider said:


> I've had extremely bad luck on *2 kits* of DDR5 memory.


I don't know if I have ever had as bad of a time with DRAM as I have on this g.skill 6000 sammy C36 kit. OpenRGB software killing SPD detection was such a random incompatibility from left field that I didn't know which was was up with this kit. I've "thrown in the towel" at 4 AM twice with this kit.



satinghostrider said:


> SA to 0.95V.


and that was the magic bullet to get XMP running. SA voltage defaults to .900 at 4800, and 1.25 at 6000. I have been trained by my last few CPUs to start with SA and I/O at 1.2 and work up from there, so I never tried below 1.1. With DDR5, I should have started at .9 and worked up. .95 is the magic number I was missing, and it was your post that led me to try.

I know this is a short test, and doesn't really count as "rock solid", but it's farther than I have gotten with XMP, its gaming stable, and passes both warm and cold boots. This is the first time I have even considered looking at pulling down timings on this kit. This screen shot is with TRRD L/S at 6/4 and TFAW at 16. It's progress. *Thanks for sharing your results.*


----------



## satinghostrider

inedenimadam said:


> I don't know if I have ever had as bad of a time with DRAM as I have on this g.skill 6000 sammy C36 kit. OpenRGB software killing SPD detection was such a random incompatibility from left field that I didn't know which was was up with this kit. I've "thrown in the towel" at 4 AM twice with this kit.
> 
> 
> and that was the magic bullet to get XMP running. SA voltage defaults to .900 at 4800, and 1.25 at 6000. I have been trained by my last few CPUs to start with SA and I/O at 1.2 and work up from there, so I never tried below 1.1. With DDR5, I should have started at .9 and worked up. .95 is the magic number I was missing, and it was your post that led me to try.
> 
> I know this is a short test, and doesn't really count as "rock solid", but it's farther than I have gotten with XMP, its gaming stable, and passes both warm and cold boots. This is the first time I have even considered looking at pulling down timings on this kit. This screen shot is with TRRD L/S at 6/4 and TFAW at 16. It's progress. *Thanks for sharing your results.*
> 
> View attachment 2540740


That's great results! I'm still testing for stability and so far Vanguard last night gamed 2 hours zero crashes. For fun and to flirt with stability, I removed my ram fan and see how temps affcet stability. I noticed in Vanguard once it crosses 40 degrees SPD hub temps, it's a matter of minutes before you crash to desktop. I'll keep monitoring my end for stability but for now, it seems good! Btw, 0.95V SA was what I derived from @Nizzen post. You should thank him. 😊

The best way to test stability is game, restart your PC game again. Shutdown, game again. If this cycle can be done without any stability issues over the course of 1 week, it's pretty much safe to assume you're stable. Keep your CPU and GPU stock so you only know if anything, it's your rams.


----------



## centvalny

Bios 0021 with Hynix 4800 green pcb @ 6933c30


----------



## Forsaken1

Candidate for daily driver.
Ambient 20c.Naked sticks.Happy with most timings.Voltage tweak in progress.
Carillo no go on 0 set for dr & dd.


----------



## bigfootnz

Nizzen said:


> T-force 6200/6400
> Corsair Beast 6000 (atleast the revision that came first)
> V-color 6000/6200
> 
> No g.skill ATM. Only the first ES
> 
> List may be longer on confirmed Hynix.
> 1.5 daily is no problem with good cooling. (Who care anyway if they die in 5-6 years LOL)


Add to list Kingston Fury Beast 6000C40 2x16GB


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted at PC forum~

Z690 HERO 0811
6400 30-38-38-56 2T MODE 2 (Hynix DDR5)
SA AUTO / MC 1.350v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.400v


----------



## sugi0lover

Another OC result posted at PC forum

MB : MSI Z690 Unify-X (E7D28IMS.A21)
BIOS : MSI Global English Forum
RAM: T-Force 6000 C38 1.25v
Voltages : SA 1.27v / MC (VDD2) 1.35 / VDDQ TX 1.45v / VDD 1.6v / VDDQ 1.55v
Additional setup : Memory Bandwidth Enhanced Mode 4 (Latency lowest)


----------



## destylock

Any Hynix available in NA?


----------



## Nizzen

bigfootnz said:


> Add to list Kingston Fury Beast 6000C40 2x16GB


V-color suddenly changed to samsung for 6200mhz kit, so nothing is certain. Maybe new 6000c40 fury beast also is samsung..


----------



## bigfootnz

Nizzen said:


> V-color suddenly changed to samsung for 6200mhz kit, so nothing is certain. Maybe new 6000c40 fury beast also is samsung..


This kit is fairly new, manufactured 47th week of 21 and I’ve purchase it just two weeks ago. It was on shelves only for few days.


----------



## Arni90

Carillo said:


> Clear cmos, set 6200 32.35.35.52 2t. SA auto, VDD/Q 1,5,diable fast boot and MCH full check... leave everything else on auto. Remeber to hold cmos for at least 10 seconds. Have patience when training samsung, grab a coffee and watch a movie. If post, start working with secondary timings.


This doesn't do anything for me. It trains, boots Windows, and promptly failes Karhu at 7%

What does help, is disabling C0, as C1 (the channel that trains lower RTLs) can easily boot and run significantly higher frequencies at 1T than C0. This halves memory bandwidth and capacity however, so it's only viable to identify problems.


----------



## Carillo

Arni90 said:


> This doesn't do anything for me. It trains, boots Windows, and promptly failes Karhu at 7%
> 
> What does help, is disabling C0, as C1 (the channel that trains lower RTLs) can easily boot and run significantly higher frequencies at 1T than C0. This halves memory bandwidth and capacity however, so it's only viable to identify problems.


How is cutting your bandwidth in half identifying your problems ?

Share your voltages


----------



## dante`afk

sugi0lover said:


> Another OC result posted at PC forum
> 
> MB : MSI Z690 Unify-X (E7D28IMS.A21)
> BIOS : MSI Global English Forum
> RAM: T-Force 6000 C38 1.25v
> Voltages : SA 1.27v / MC (VDD2) 1.35 / VDDQ TX 1.45v / VDD 1.6v / VDDQ 1.55v
> Additional setup : Memory Bandwidth Enhanced Mode 4 (Latency lowest)
> 
> View attachment 2540841


can you ask him if stability stays after multiple reboots/retrains? :d


----------



## Arni90

Carillo said:


> How is cutting your bandwidth in half identifying your problems ?
> 
> Share your voltages


It shows that the problem lies with a specific channel, and not the memory sticks themselves, this can either be solved through BIOS updates, or it's a matter of poor trace layout on the Z690 Apex.

Here's a pic showing what happens when I set your suggested settings:
VDD 1.5V
VDDQ 1.5V
Fast boot disabled
MCH full check disabled
6200 MT/s
32-35-35-52-2T








Things I've tried: 6000 40-40-40-80-2T
tCL 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44
BIOS 0806, 0811, 0046
VDD/VDDQ 1.30, 1.35, 1.40, 1.45, 1.50, 1.55
IMC VDD 1.00, 1.10, 1.15, 1.20, 1.25, 1.30, 1.35, 1.40
VCCSA 0.9, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4

Looser tCL prolongs the inevitable, but it will eventually fail.
More VDD/VDDQ makes it seemingly more stable, but it's also eventually failing.
IMC VDD seems to not matter unless it's at 1.10V
VCCSA seems to not matter

Running 5600 32-35-35 seems to work fine.


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> can you ask him if stability stays after multiple reboots/retrains? :d


He said "perfectly stable".


----------



## Carillo

Arni90 said:


> It shows that the problem lies with a specific channel, and not the memory sticks themselves, this can either be solved through BIOS updates, or it's a matter of poor trace layout on the Z690 Apex.
> 
> Here's a pic showing what happens when I set your suggested settings:
> VDD 1.5V
> VDDQ 1.5V
> Fast boot disabled
> MCH full check disabled
> 6200 MT/s
> 32-35-35-52-2T
> View attachment 2540863
> 
> 
> Things I've tried: 6000 40-40-40-80-2T
> tCL 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44
> BIOS 0806, 0811, 0046
> VDD/VDDQ 1.30, 1.35, 1.40, 1.45, 1.50, 1.55
> IMC VDD 1.00, 1.10, 1.15, 1.20, 1.25, 1.30, 1.35, 1.40
> VCCSA 0.9, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4
> 
> Looser tCL prolongs the inevitable, but it will eventually fail.
> More VDD/VDDQ makes it seemingly more stable, but it's also eventually failing.
> IMC VDD seems to not matter unless it's at 1.10V
> VCCSA seems to not matter
> 
> Running 5600 32-35-35 seems to work fine.


From my experience, 0811 worked "best" with samsung. I guess you did clear cmos between MC volt changes ? And SA Auto ? Have you tried running only one stick with same settings ? Samsung is really a pain to get stable, i have used days to get a stable setting, that suddenly is unstable the next day.... I almost threw everything out the window...#SamsungIC... Lifte after Hynix is not comparable.. It just works.


----------



## nickolp1974

Anyone know the model/part numbers for the dell sk hynix modules??

these SNPK7G24C/16G ??


----------



## Carillo

nickolp1974 said:


> Anyone know the model/part numbers for the dell sk hynix modules??
> 
> these SNPK7G24C/16G ??


Same part number for Hynix and Micron.. Random IC's. You have to see them.


----------



## nickolp1974

Carillo said:


> Same part number for Hynix and Micron.. Random IC's. You have to see them.


Thanks, so with the green pcb are they un binned IC's so a lottery or are they just a low bin???








Dell Memory Upgrade - 16GB - 1RX8 DDR5 UDIMM 4800MHz | Dell UK


Random Access Memory (RAM) is a type of hardware that your computer uses to store information. Adding memory is one of the most cost-effective ways to improve your computer's performance. Dell™ Branded memory offered in the Memory Selector has gone through rigorous quality assurance and quality...



www.dell.com


----------



## Carillo

nickolp1974 said:


> Thanks, so with the green pcb are they un binned IC's so a lottery or are they just a low bin???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dell Memory Upgrade - 16GB - 1RX8 DDR5 UDIMM 4800MHz | Dell UK
> 
> 
> Random Access Memory (RAM) is a type of hardware that your computer uses to store information. Adding memory is one of the most cost-effective ways to improve your computer's performance. Dell™ Branded memory offered in the Memory Selector has gone through rigorous quality assurance and quality...
> 
> 
> 
> www.dell.com


As you can probably see from results published by other users, they seems to be as good a bin as any T-force 6400 kit...


----------



## Forsaken1

Have not seen a bad set of dell hynix or maybe there just all bad looking a year into the future😊.

Heads up on ek monarch single side memory.You will need to order 2-120x20x1.5 thermal pads as ek does not provide in kit at this time.


----------



## nickolp1974

Carillo said:


> As you can probably see from results published by other users, they seems to be as good a bin as any T-force 6400 kit...


Took a punt, they arrive friday


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> can you ask him if stability stays after multiple reboots/retrains? :d


His 3DMark result with Ram OC 7000 CL30.








I scored 52 492 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

edit


----------



## dante`afk

sugi0lover said:


> He said "perfectly stable".


so if there's any truth to that since he has a unify-x. the ram retrain issue is with asus and their bioses


----------



## jomama22

dante`afk said:


> so if there's any truth to that since he has a unify-x. the ram retrain issue is with asus and their bioses


Here is the actual thread:









쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


새해 첫날에 목표였던 7000을 성공 했습니다ㅎ12월에 나온 MSI 베타 바이오스에서 기존 6933에서 7000 부팅이 가능해져 오버 해봤습니다.[환경]M/B : MSI Z690



coolenjoy.net





From what I can see, the new mbe mode select on the unify-x helped him retain stability through reboots, as other setting failed reboot as well. So it possibly(probably) has to do with odt's and other timings not exposed in bios.

Here is another oc site where sugi gets some results from:









퀘이사존


퀘이사존은 하드웨어, 게임, 취미 활동을 모두 아우르는 종합 커뮤니티를 표방합니다.




quasarzone.com


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> so if there's any truth to that since he has a unify-x. the ram retrain issue is with asus and their bioses


He has both Apex and Unify-X. 
According to his experience, he has no problem with Apex under certain conditions.
1) Disconnect PC power completely (even led is off) and boot and find stable OC setting.
2) If there are errors and he adjusts just ram timings and finds stable OC, no problem after rebooting.
3) If he adjusts voltages like MC, SA, vdd, vddq to find stable OC without completely disconnecting PC power, it is sometimes unstable after booting. 
So, whenever you need to adjust voltages, completely disconnect PC power and power PC up and start oc over. That's his advice.


----------



## sugi0lover

jomama22 said:


> Here is the actual thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 새해 첫날에 목표였던 7000을 성공 했습니다ㅎ12월에 나온 MSI 베타 바이오스에서 기존 6933에서 7000 부팅이 가능해져 오버 해봤습니다.[환경]M/B : MSI Z690
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can see, the new mbe mode select on the unify-x helped him retain stability through reboots, as other setting failed reboot as well. So it possibly(probably) has to do with odt's and other timings not exposed in bios.
> 
> Here is another oc site where sugi gets some results from:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 퀘이사존
> 
> 
> 퀘이사존은 하드웨어, 게임, 취미 활동을 모두 아우르는 종합 커뮤니티를 표방합니다.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quasarzone.com


Yes. I talk to him over personal chat every day^^ He's my friend.
[Edit] He didn't say anything about rebooting instability. MBE mode he said was about latency difference not rebooting stabiility.
Certain mode didn't boot at all was what he said, not rebooting instability.


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Yes. I talk to him over personal chat every day^^ He's my friend.
> [Edit] He didn't say anything about rebooting instability. MBE mode he said was about latency difference not stabiility.


Was only referring to his list of different mbe tests where he lists some that "failed reboot", which I infer as instability between reboots.

Also, was posting the websites as others will want to check them out anyway


----------



## sugi0lover

jomama22 said:


> Was only referring to his list of different mbe tests where he lists some that "failed reboot", which I infer as instability between reboots.
> 
> Also, was posting the websites as others will want to check them out anyway


You are right about the reboot issue with other mode. my mistake~ 
He has no problem with his mode4, lowest latency and no stability issues after booting.


----------



## Arni90

sugi0lover said:


> He has both Apex and Unify-X.
> According to his experience, he has no problem with Apex under certain conditions.
> 1) Disconnect PC power completely (even led is off) and boot and find stable OC setting.
> 2) If there are errors and he adjusts just ram timings and finds stable OC, no problem after rebooting.
> 3) If he adjusts voltages like MC, SA, vdd, vddq to find stable OC without completely disconnecting PC power, it is sometimes unstable after booting.
> So, whenever you need to adjust voltages, completely disconnect PC power and power PC up and start oc over. That's his advice.


What??? I don't mean to sound like that guy, but that's ridiculous. What's the point of having a "safe boot" button if it breaks stability?


----------



## sugi0lover

Arni90 said:


> What??? I don't mean to sound like that guy, but that's ridiculous. What's the point of having a "safe boot" button if it breaks stability?


From his experiece, he thinks that something is still left over even at safe boot when power is still connected.
With his method, he has no problem with rebooting stability.


----------



## Forsaken1

Using limp mode on Tachyon when things go south.With success.
Wish I did not need limp mode at times.
Testing cold reset button lately.


----------



## Arni90

sugi0lover said:


> From his experiece, he thinks that something is still left over even at safe boot when power is still connected.
> With his method, he has no problem with rebooting stability.


But even safe boot will train memory timings and voltages? Am I supposed to
1. Take out power and CLR_CMOS
2. Boot and set voltages and frequency
3. Reboot and adjust timings


----------



## Carillo

I will receive ny Unify-X in 3-4 days. Will do a direct comparison against my Apex using same cpu, same cooling and sticks. Also, it will be fun to see if the over volt issue presists...


----------



## Forsaken1

Carillo said:


> I will receive ny Unify-X in 3-4 days. Will do a direct comparison against my Apex using same cpu, same cooling and sticks. Also, it will be fun to see if the over volt issue presists...


Mr deep pockets…..😊Order a Tachyon and let’s see a shoot out.


----------



## Carillo

Forsaken1 said:


> Mr deep pockets…..😊Order a Tachyon and let’s see a shoot out.


Would be fun. Maby HIcoockie could learn me a thing or two about cpu-z


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Would be fun. Maby HIcoockie could learn me a thing or two about cpu-z


Gigabutt is so EPIC fail !
Just like V-color that tried to scam us with 100% Hynix IC DDR5 6000/6200 memory. Suddenly they changed to Samsung ic, without telling the buyers.
Today they edited away Hynix from the memory spec..
---------------
"

Every DDR5 memory modules come equipped with original SK-Hynix DRAM ICs, selected through strict rigorous testing, and manufactured with high-standard production equipment.
Designed to deliver quality and full-overclocking capability with a high tolerance for extreme overclockers and PC enthusiasts.
"

Cheat once......


----------



## Forsaken1

Carillo said:


> Would be fun. Maby HIcoockie could learn me a thing or two about cpu-z


Come on that’s old news☺.Let’s talk about boards catching on 🔥.

Some one start a go fund me for Carillo.
Find it off there are not a lot of serious reviews on Z690.


----------



## Gsen999

sugi0lover said:


> Another OC result posted at PC forum
> 
> MB : MSI Z690 Unify-X (E7D28IMS.A21)
> BIOS : MSI Global English Forum
> RAM: T-Force 6000 C38 1.25v
> Voltages : SA 1.27v / MC (VDD2) 1.35 / VDDQ TX 1.45v / VDD 1.6v / VDDQ 1.55v
> Additional setup : Memory Bandwidth Enhanced Mode 4 (Latency lowest)
> 
> View attachment 2540841


52 degrees max temp at 5.5GHZ madness


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Gigabutt is so EPIC fail !
> Just like V-color that tried to scam us with 100% Hynix IC DDR5 6000/6200 memory. Suddenly they changed to Samsung ic, without telling the buyers.
> Today they edited away Hynix from the memory spec..
> ---------------
> "
> 
> Every DDR5 memory modules come equipped with original SK-Hynix DRAM ICs, selected through strict rigorous testing, and manufactured with high-standard production equipment.
> Designed to deliver quality and full-overclocking capability with a high tolerance for extreme overclockers and PC enthusiasts.
> "
> 
> Cheat once......


i can say the same to some ram vendors about their qvl. 
mobo vendors too.

i think we should give them more time.
btw, would love to see how strong would essencore klevv d5 be.


----------



## Forsaken1

Nizzen said:


> Gigabutt is so EPIC fail !"
> 
> Cheat once......


Fan boys need to disappear.


----------



## criznit

The Unify-X is a great board! I got my 6000 CL36 up to 6400 CL 36 with just a .05 bump to dram voltage. I will push the memory further next week once I get more time to play with it.


----------



## Nizzen

Got the 6000c32 apex profile stable at 6200 on air. It need pretty good amount of "voltage" 

This is with 6000c36 g.skill kit with samsung IC.(maybe unstable tomorrow, you'll never know with Samsung IC)


----------



## Lord Alzov

Not stable.... 
cant run t1 6400+


----------



## SuperMumrik

Forsaken1 said:


> Fan boys need to disappear.


I'll take whatever board (apex, unify-x or tachyon) that can run my green hynix sticks at high voltage mode 😎


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> Would be fun. Maby HIcoockie could learn me a thing or two about cpu-z


Tachyon seems like a really good MB. Would be nice to try it out


----------



## Lord Alzov

Carillo said:


> Tachyon seems like a really good MB. Would be nice to try it out


Apex no good. I cant run my hynix watercool 6400-6600t1.
only stable 660030 t2 1.65v. I try 1.75v also BSOD on 1t.


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Gigabutt is so EPIC fail !
> Just like V-color that tried to scam us with 100% Hynix IC DDR5 6000/6200 memory. Suddenly they changed to Samsung ic, without telling the buyers.
> Today they edited away Hynix from the memory spec..
> ---------------
> "
> 
> Every DDR5 memory modules come equipped with original SK-Hynix DRAM ICs, selected through strict rigorous testing, and manufactured with high-standard production equipment.
> Designed to deliver quality and full-overclocking capability with a high tolerance for extreme overclockers and PC enthusiasts


Imo, at this early stage all brands use binned basic blank hynix 4800 module with rgb/non rgb/green/black pcb from sk hynix then programmed their xmp based on bin quality.


----------



## jomama22

Lord Alzov said:


> Apex no good. I cant run my hynix watercool 6400-6600t1.
> only stable 660030 t2 1.65v. I try 1.75v also BSOD on 1t.


Have no issues with my 6400/28/1t @1.53v on the apex. Now finding the root cause of the reboot issues is a different ballgame lol. By reboot issues I mean instability after a reboot, whether there is training or not going on.

6600/30/1t shouldn't take more than 1.55-1.6v, depending on the other timings. 6500/28/1t needs 1.57 for me. 6400/30/1t needs 1.43. All other timings kept equal.


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> Apex no good. I cant run my hynix watercool 6400-6600t1.
> only stable 660030 t2 1.65v. I try 1.75v also BSOD on 1t.


Msi and GigaB has no problem with the same settings and the same stics?

Question is: Is Apex no good, or is it something else ....


Sometimes nothing is good for me, but often it's the knowledge that is no good


----------



## mattxx88

SuperMumrik said:


> I'll take whatever board (apex, unify-x or tachyon) that can run my green hynix sticks at high voltage mode 😎


do you have the same problem as Carillo with kningstone?


----------



## Forsaken1

Carillo said:


> Would be fun. Maby HIcoockie could learn me a thing or two about cpu-z





Carillo said:


> Tachyon seems like a really good MB. Would be nice to try it out


It’s ok talk to yourself but answering is schizophrenia.
Maybe you should seek help.

If you where in states.I’d be up for board swap for a few weeks.I may just break down and get X.Already played with a handful z690 though.There’s little difference in performance.Most of that on micron.So not a good comparison.
It’s all creature comforts at this point.Everyone putting out good hardware. Bios function seem on par.Maybe not ease of use.

PCB is a key.6 layer is poor.
What is PCB layer of?
MSI X 8-10?
Tachyon 8-10 I think.
Apex 8-10?


----------



## jomama22

Forsaken1 said:


> It’s ok talk to yourself but answering is schizophrenia.
> Maybe you should seek help.
> 
> If you where in states.I’d be up for board swap for a few weeks.I may just break down and get X.Already played with a handful z690 though.There’s little difference in performance.Most of that on micron.So not a good comparison.
> It’s all creature comforts at this point.Everyone putting out good hardware. Bios function seem on par.Maybe not ease of use.
> 
> PCB is a key.6 layer is poor.
> What is PCB layer of?
> MSI X 8-10?
> Tachyon 8-10 I think.
> Apex 8-10?


They are all 8 layer I believe, don't think there is any 10 layers out ATM, though I imagine the dark will be 10


----------



## skullbringer

Apex: can't run 6400c40 XMP stable after the millionth bios update
meanwhile on the Tachyon: 6800 36-42-54 2T 1.5V










tRFCpb, tRAS, tRTP and tWR might go lower still, gonna test tomorrow. and yes, latency is ****, but that's win11 and hwinfo for you!


----------



## Arni90

skullbringer said:


> Apex: can't run 6400c40 XMP stable after the millionth bios update
> meanwhile on the Tachyon: 6800 36-42-54 2T 1.5V
> 
> View attachment 2540908
> 
> 
> tRFCpb, tRAS, tRTP and tWR might go lower still, gonna test tomorrow. and yes, latency is ****, but that's win11 and hwinfo for you!


Why are the RTLs so bad?


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> Why are the RTLs so bad?


It isn't Apex 😂


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> Apex: can't run 6400c40 XMP stable after the millionth bios update
> meanwhile on the Tachyon: 6800 36-42-54 2T 1.5V
> 
> View attachment 2540908
> 
> 
> tRFCpb, tRAS, tRTP and tWR might go lower still, gonna test tomorrow. and yes, latency is ****, but that's win11 and hwinfo for you!


6000c30 1t on Apex on windows 11 is 52ns


----------



## centvalny

Funny hynix green strips to 7K+


----------



## munternet

Anyone running dual rank Hynix (2x32GB) on Apex?
Or any other board for that matter


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Now that the Gigglebyte Tachyon is out, is it the go-to XOC board? Has anyone tried the AsRock Aqua?


----------



## orbitech

Nizzen said:


> 6000c30 1t on Apex on windows 11 is 52ns


Now that you mention it my 6000c36 sammies can do ~56ns with 6000c32 profile so it makes perfect sense. Really impressive
Do you by any chance have a sample of these timings if I'm not asking much that is? I'd love to try them on my Apex, and see if my board handles them 
I managed to stabilize 6000c32 profile in everything (I think that is lol tried different torture tests,TM5 profiles and gaming for 2-3hrs w/o issues thankfully) will see how it goes and now I'll start to tight 6000 a bit more for latency first and later will check for bandwidth .. I think I'm near the sweet spot 6000 for my 12900k seems to be the limit of "meaningful performance increase" .. I'm looking to tight 6000 as much as I can with these dimms and see how this goes..


----------



## chispy

ASRock Z690 Aqua OC ( es sample ) + Kingston 6000 C40 Hynix ( es sample )

Quick test for geekbench3 Memory at 6431Mhz Cas 30-37-37-51 1T ( My goal is to reach 14k+ on the memory test ) , almost there.
Testing for 6600 1T and 6800 1T later.


----------



## dante`afk

@shamino1978 any word why manually re-entering timings and other voltage settings lead to a successful stability test rather than loading a profile with the same timings?


----------



## mattxx88

jomama22 said:


> They are all 8 layer I believe, don't think there is any 10 layers out ATM, though I imagine the dark will be 10


actually z690i from msi and asrock should have 10 layers pcbs


----------



## inedenimadam

munternet said:


> Anyone running dual rank Hynix (2x32GB) on Apex?
> Or any other board for that matter


would also like to know this because I have a mostly untested 32x2 Hynix kit from dell. Quick and dirty I have only had them up to 5200 C32. 
I have ALL of the issues people mention with my samsung kit. All of the tuning in the world and I basically landed on XMP.


----------



## Forsaken1

geriatricpollywog said:


> Now that the Gigglebyte Tachyon is out, is it the go-to XOC board? Has anyone tried the AsRock Aqua?


Its a pick your flavor to me.
Unify X $489ar Hey you get a control panel.Not XOC to me.Unless oc panel has certain features.
Tachyon $529. A lot of buttons/switch’s on board. XOC
Apex $720. Justify the price? Buyers remores? XOC

At the end of the day performance is within a margin of error with Hynix.


----------



## sugi0lover

Arni90 said:


> But even safe boot will train memory timings and voltages? Am I supposed to
> 1. Take out power and CLR_CMOS
> 2. Boot and set voltages and frequency
> 3. Reboot and adjust timings


You don't need to clr cmos. Just need to take out PC power when you need to adjust voltages.
You can even keep or load profile after taking out power.
This is his way, so it may not apply to other people.
I have no problem with this rebooting instability with Z690 Apex so far.



Gsen999 said:


> 52 degrees max temp at 5.5GHZ madness


His 12900K is SP103. golden golden chip.


----------



## munternet

inedenimadam said:


> would also like to know this because I have a mostly untested 32x2 Hynix kit from dell. Quick and dirty I have only had them up to 5200 C32.
> I have ALL of the issues people mention with my samsung kit. All of the tuning in the world and I basically landed on XMP.


What were the Aida scores like with the Hynix 2x32GB?


----------



## asdkj1740

mattxx88 said:


> actually z690i from msi and asrock should have 10 layers pcbs


msi itx unfiy i = 12 layers
msi unify x = 8 layers
gigabyte tachyon = 10 layers
asus apex = 6 layers
asus itx strix = 10 layers


----------



## wesley8

munternet said:


> What were the Aida scores like with the Hynix 2x32GB?


With samsung and hynix 2x32GB:


----------



## munternet

wesley8 said:


> With samsung and hynix 2x32GB:
> View attachment 2540951
> 
> View attachment 2540950


Cheers  
Doesn't look terrible
Do you think there is much more room?
North Bridge Clock is a lot lower on the Hynix


----------



## hengmy

Forsaken1 said:


> Its a pick your flavor to me.
> Unify X $489ar Hey you get a control panel.Not XOC to me.Unless oc panel has certain features.
> Tachyon $529. A lot of buttons/switch’s on board. XOC
> Apex $720. Justify the price? Buyers remores? XOC
> 
> At the end of the day performance is within a margin of error with Hynix.


do you know where can get the Tachyon ?


----------



## Bilco

So I just got some 32gb green pcb dell hynix ram. What are people using to cool these on an Apex board?


----------



## Nizzen

hengmy said:


> do you know where can get the Tachyon ?


Tachyon in stock several places here in Norway. 
Like here:





GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS TACHYON Hovedkort - Intel Z690 - Intel LGA1700 socket - DDR5 RAM - Extended ATX


7 612,00 kr Hovedkort, Extended ATX, Intel LGA1700 Socket, Intel Z690, 2 x PCI-Express 5.0 x16 / 1 x PCI-Express 3.0 x16, Dual <strong>DDR5-4800</strong> - 2 x DIMM slots, 4 x SATA-600 / 4 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 4.0 (2242 / 2260 / 2280), USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type A & C, HDM.




www.proshop.no


----------



## Nizzen

Bilco said:


> So I just got some 32gb green pcb dell hynix ram. What are people using to cool these on an Apex board?


Watercooling 😎


----------



## fortecosi

asdkj1740 said:


> msi itx unfiy i = 12 layers
> msi unify x = 8 layers
> gigabyte tachyon = 10 layers
> asus apex = 6 layers
> asus itx strix = 10 layers


asus apex z690 = 8 layers


----------



## asdkj1740

fortecosi said:


> asus apex z690 = 8 layers


i thought apex was 6 layers low loss pcb while hero was 8 layers mid loss PCB, according to my source.


----------



## oc22jirM

morph. said:


> you lowered the command rate to 2t, right? premade is 1t which seems fair few people are unable to post unless they have an apex. Between the hero and apex i'd go apex hands down.


12 days later but I finally got my Apex. I am running stable on the 6000/c32 premade profile. Have just the standard default heatsinks, what is a "decent" temp or what temp should I start to worry at? Currently One stick is 48 degrees, the other 49 degrees.

Thanks again for all your help btw!


----------



## shamino1978

Carillo said:


> From my experience, 0811 worked "best" with samsung. I guess you did clear cmos between MC volt changes ? And SA Auto ? Have you tried running only one stick with same settings ? Samsung is really a pain to get stable, i have used days to get a stable setting, that suddenly is unstable the next day.... I almost threw everything out the window...#SamsungIC... Lifte after Hynix is not comparable.. It just works.


hi pls try this bios's option: -> advanced mem voltages -> VDD calculation base and MC voltage calculation base. for VDD set it to lower than 1.435v or even 1.1v if u have problem booting high voltage.










ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9901.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## matique

6400c32 1T on Gskill 5600c36 ram.

1.28v SA | 1.55v VDD/VDDQ | 1.54v TXVDDQ | 1.28V MC | ODT 40/240/24048/48

Temps are fine as I have aftermarket spreaders on the ram with good pads on it + a ramfan blowing over it [48c peak]. But I'm still concerned about the voltages though, as it's pushing around 10w+ on each dimm.










6200c32 1T profile, currently using this as my daily.

1.2v SA | 1.45v VDD/VDDQ | 1.45v TXVDDQ | 1.25v MC | ODT 40/240/24048/48


----------



## Carillo

shamino1978 said:


> hi pls try this bios's option: -> advanced mem voltages -> VDD calculation base and MC voltage calculation base. for VDD set it to lower than 1.435v or even 1.1v if u have problem booting high voltage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9901.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thanks a lot! Will report back when i get home from work !


----------



## Forsaken1

hengmy said:


> do you know where can get the Tachyon ?


Check gigabyte partners on website.





Where to Buy - GIGABYTE Global







www.gigabyte.com







Bilco said:


> So I just got some 32gb green pcb dell hynix ram. What are people using to cool these on an Apex board?


Alseye ram cooler 60mm.
Zip tie 2-80mm fans together.
EK monarch


----------



## Forsaken1

Consensus on PCB layer ?

What is PCB layer of?
MSI X 8
Tachyon 10
Apex 8

If true apex looking even worse buy.🔥


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> Consensus on PCB layer ?
> 
> What is PCB layer of?
> MSI X 8
> Tachyon 10
> Apex 8
> 
> If true apex looking even worse buy.🔥


apex has proven itself 6 lay is enough.
PCB materials also count...mid loss, low loss etc.

in fact, aero d is 8 layers too, same as aorus master, which makes aorus master embarrassed.


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> apex has proven itself 6 lay is enough.
> PCB materials also count...mid loss, low loss etc.
> 
> in fact, aero d is 8 layers too, same as aorus master, which makes aorus master embarrassed.


Where all entitled to our thoughts.
6 layer on giga is painfully for ram oc.


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> Where all entitled to our thoughts.
> 6 layer on giga is painfully for ram oc.


no idea what is going on with gigabyte aorus master, last week they updated the qvl and there were few 6600mhz kits listed. now those 6600 kits are removed.
among 8 layer PCB models, it seems gigabyte aorus master / aero d / aorus xtreme are having the lowest supported speed of ram kits listed.
gigabyte should manually oc hicookie harder so more models would be well tuned.


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> no idea what is going on with gigabyte aorus master, last week they updated the qvl and there were few 6600mhz kits listed. now those 6600 kits are removed.
> among 8 layer PCB models, it seems gigabyte aorus master / aero d / aorus xtreme are having the lowest supported speed of ram kits listed.
> gigabyte should manually oc hicookie harder so more models would be well tuned.


Best guess.
lan drop issues when pushing memory overzealous settings I can confirm.Ultra often.Tachyon less 
Something up on PCB or bios?
That’s why I’m curious on PCB layers and or different construction methods of PCB.


----------



## skullbringer

Arni90 said:


> Why are the RTLs so bad?


good question, Tachyon has no "Round Trip Latency" setting and 8 RTL settings in total, but split for 2 DIMMs in each channel, not for 2 subchannels in each channel.

so this looks like completely copy-pasta pre-Z690 to me...


----------



## Fantik

I'm having some weird issues with my RAM...

I think one sticks is not ok...










The Total Power 0.000v 🤐
The TM5 finish in 3m 58s 🤪
CPU-Z just show Slot #1 and #2 🙄
But in the HWINFO shows 32GB 🤔


----------



## Alberto_It

shamino1978 said:


> hi pls try this bios's option: -> advanced mem voltages -> VDD calculation base and MC voltage calculation base. for VDD set it to lower than 1.435v or even 1.1v if u have problem booting high voltage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9901.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Sorry @shamino1978 in my opinion there are not too many versions of Bios for the Apex Z690? One version that satisfies everyone? 

Thank you


----------



## Carillo

shamino1978 said:


> hi pls try this bios's option: -> advanced mem voltages -> VDD calculation base and MC voltage calculation base. for VDD set it to lower than 1.435v or even 1.1v if u have problem booting high voltage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9901.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Still same problem :/ 

Did the following. 

Used settings that easily boots with 1,435VDD
Enable high dram voltage mode and tried 1,450VDD

Goes in to post loop stops at code 00, does this 3-4 times pauses at 54 than 55. If i press retrain it posts in safe mode. Tried VDD calculation base from 1,1 to 1,4 volts. No difference

When i disable "high dram voltage mode" it boots to windows first try.... 

Thanks for trying anyways.


----------



## jomama22

Alberto_It said:


> Sorry @shamino1978 in my opinion there are not too many versions of Bios for the Apex Z690? One version that satisfies everyone?
> 
> Thank you


They are beta and test bios'. They are part of the process to getting improved official releases. If you only care about official releases, you should only pay attention to what is in the support page on the Asus website.


----------



## Falkentyne

Between satinghostrider(??) wait...oops, im mixing satinghotrider up with someone else with the 4x16GB dimm configuration right?? and alberto's posts (either constantly hammering both Shamino and Robertosamipao), its been just constant annoying spam. Like some people seem to be so helpless as to want everyone else to do everything for them.
But you can tell just how little time he spends 'reading' when he thinks a new beta drop by Shamino is a months old bios  Like...seriously...the answers are in the threads if people just take the damn time to READ. Plus you can always look at the BIOS build date too...who was the other guy...?


----------



## snakeeyes111

matique said:


> View attachment 2540975
> 
> 
> 6400c32 1T on Gskill 5600c36 ram.
> 
> 1.28v SA | 1.55v VDD/VDDQ | 1.54v TXVDDQ | 1.28V MC | ODT 40/240/24048/48


Can u test tm5 yumusv3 pls?


----------



## nickolp1974

Alberto_It said:


> Listen to me well, I don't do any spamming but questions, I am a newbie in this area and therefore I ask those who have more experience than me. Closed the speech


There is so much information out there, just read, look and listen, do your own testing and trials then ask questions on what you have learned or need help. One thing is for sure, there are issues surrounding DDR5. people that persist are getting great results, you can't just copy and paste.







https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dinos+22










ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net





read watch and do it again


----------



## Alberto_It

nickolp1974 said:


> There is so much information out there, just read, look and listen, do your own testing and trials then ask questions on what you have learned or need help. One thing is for sure, there are issues surrounding DDR5. people that persist are getting great results, you can't just copy and paste.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dinos+22
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> 
> Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> read watch and do it again


Thank you very much! Your kindness is greatly appreciated


----------



## Carillo

Besides my PMIC limitations, I think the 9901 bios seems very good. It is finally possible to make quite significant adjustments to timings without having to use clear cmos, and training goes much faster..This was so tight I was able to run with only 1.41 VDD/VDDQ available. 1,225MC/SA auto

Kingston 4800 cl40 Value kit.


----------



## Silent Scone

Falkentyne said:


> BIOS build date too...who was the other guy...?


Blastipodi, who finally upgraded from X99 and is back with a vengeance lol. The narrative is mostly the same, don't combine memory kits. Well, don't combine memory kits and expect people to do the groundwork for you vicariously - or throw mud at the vendors for your own misadventure in an effort to get their attention.


----------



## Silent Scone

Some 6800 testing from earlier today

Per C 54/53/52
Adaptive 1.37v
Cache 40
E Core 41 Sync

IMCVVD 1.33
SA 0.98
VDD 1.48
VDDQ 1.48
TX VDDQ 1.52

6800 C38-39-39-58 2T


----------



## Arni90

Alberto_It said:


> Listen to me well, I don't do any spamming but questions, I am a newbie in this area and therefore I ask those who have more experience than me. Closed the speech


*Everyone* is a newbie at this point, DDR5 has been available for 2 months (at best). You can't expect anyone to be an expert at this point.
There have been plenty of suggestions, but you keep asking the same question in the hopes that the answers will differ.



Falkentyne said:


> Between satinghostrider(??) wait...oops, im mixing satinghotrider up with someone else with the 4x16GB dimm configuration right?? and alberto's posts (either constantly hammering both Shamino and Robertosamipao), its been just constant annoying spam. Like some people seem to be so helpless as to want everyone else to do everything for them.
> But you can tell just how little time he spends 'reading' when he thinks a new beta drop by Shamino is a months old bios  Like...seriously...the answers are in the threads if people just take the damn time to READ. Plus you can always look at the BIOS build date too...who was the other guy...?


The biggest problem with his spamming is that the the advice is quickly drowning in a sea of complaints

This trick seems to help for me at least:








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Would be fun. Maby HIcoockie could learn me a thing or two about cpu-z :D Tachyon seems like a really good MB. Would be nice to try it out :) It’s ok talk to yourself but answering is schizophrenia. Maybe you should seek help.:ROFLMAO: If you where in states.I’d be up for board swap for a...




www.overclock.net






I realize I am adding to the problem with this post, but I felt like @sugi0lover deserved a shoutout for his help


----------



## bigfootnz

I've noticed that with DDR5 there is no link between tWR and tWRPRE like with DDR4. If I leave tWR on auto I cannot control it with tWRPRE, changing tWRPRE do not change tWR. Is this correct?

Also, I've noticed that with Apex you can set tRAS really low like 28. Is this same Apex thing like 1T, which is not possible on Hero?

Not sure about other Asus boards but with Hero and bios 0811 after making memory unstable only way to go back to stable mem profile is to do clear CMOS, which is really annoying. Hopefully next bios will fix it.


----------



## oc22jirM

Forsaken1 said:


> Check gigabyte partners on website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where to Buy - GIGABYTE Global
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gigabyte.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alseye ram cooler 60mm.
> Zip tie 2-80mm fans together.
> EK monarch


Can you expand on this by any chance? I just put in an order for the alseye. Are you saying to run it with the 80mm fans zip tied to it instead of the 60mm fans? Or were you giving 2 different solutions either the alseye 60mm options OR 2 80mm fans zip tied together instead of the alseye? 

Thanks for your time!


----------



## inedenimadam

I need help/sanity check. Can one of you guys with good results using APEX + Samsung shoot me a message? I am able to boot many configurations up to 6600, but I can't stabilize ANYTHING over XMP, and even that is sketchy. I could really use a hand figuring out which voltages or timings I need to adjust depending on which TM5 error or blue screen I receive.


----------



## oc22jirM

Apex, running gskill 5600 c36 rgb kit. Was having no issues with the premade Samsung 6200/c32 preset in windows or in gaming. Run tm5 for a few min and get countless errors and fairly high temps. Temps would approach 68+. I have tried on 1T / 2T same thing. I haven't tried to mess around with the voltages just yet just working off the premade profile. Latest official bios 0811. I have a fan on the way the Alseye dual 60mm fan to see if i can be more stable under some cooling. Also have a set of z5 rgb 6000/c36 on the way that I will experiment with but won't arrive until 1/11


----------



## Lord Alzov

bigfootnz said:


> I've noticed that with DDR5 there is no link between tWR and tWRPRE like with DDR4. If I leave tWR on auto I cannot control it with tWRPRE, changing tWRPRE do not change tWR. Is this correct?
> 
> Also, I've noticed that with Apex you can set tRAS really low like 28. Is this same Apex thing like 1T, which is not possible on Hero?
> 
> Not sure about other Asus boards but with Hero and bios 0811 after making memory unstable only way to go back to stable mem profile is to do clear CMOS, which is really annoying. Hopefully next bios will fix it.


u need use TWRPRE and TWRPDEN and it set TWR for 16 u need 53 54 for example.


----------



## bigfootnz

Lord Alzov said:


> u need use TWRPRE and TWRPDEN and it set TWR for 16 u need 53 54 for example.


 Thanks, just to confirm for example for tWR 20 I need to set tWRPRE 57 and tWRPDEN 58?


----------



## Forsaken1

mattjirmanos said:


> Can you expand on this by any chance? I just put in an order for the alseye. Are you saying to run it with the 80mm fans zip tied to it instead of the 60mm fans? Or were you giving 2 different solutions either the alseye 60mm options OR 2 80mm fans zip tied together instead of the alseye?
> 
> Thanks for your time!


Two different solutions either or.Placing 2-80mm fans or size of your choice over VRM is never a bad idea.

I had to do it: AT shamino1978. Can I get a bios for Tachyon.🤣🤣🤣


----------



## satinghostrider

Falkentyne said:


> Between satinghostrider(??) wait...oops, im mixing satinghotrider up with someone else with the 4x16GB dimm configuration right?? and alberto's posts (either constantly hammering both Shamino and Robertosamipao), its been just constant annoying spam. Like some people seem to be so helpless as to want everyone else to do everything for them.
> But you can tell just how little time he spends 'reading' when he thinks a new beta drop by Shamino is a months old bios  Like...seriously...the answers are in the threads if people just take the damn time to READ. Plus you can always look at the BIOS build date too...who was the other guy...?


Why are you confusing me with someone else??


----------



## Nizzen

mattjirmanos said:


> Apex, running gskill 5600 c36 rgb kit. Was having no issues with the premade Samsung 6200/c32 preset in windows or in gaming. Run tm5 for a few min and get countless errors and fairly high temps. Temps would approach 68+. I have tried on 1T / 2T same thing. I haven't tried to mess around with the voltages just yet just working off the premade profile. Latest official bios 0811. I have a fan on the way the Alseye dual 60mm fan to see if i can be more stable under some cooling. Also have a set of z5 rgb 6000/c36 on the way that I will experiment with but won't arrive until 1/11


Errors starting around 58-60c for me with aircooling. Fan over dimm and its about 48c max. Watercooled 30-35c 😅
Cold dimms is a good start for 6000+ 1t


----------



## Falkentyne

satinghostrider said:


> Why are you confusing me with someone else??


I'm sorry?


----------



## Forsaken1

EK Monarch installed on DELL hynix single side.Ya the green ones.Outside of what is provided in kit from EK.I used 2-120x20x1.5 thermal pads.This was placed on non chip(hynix) side of heat spreader..
Thermal pads provided in EK kit are doubled up on each hynix chip and across pmic area.This was in need for contact with heat spreader.So far so good.

Disregard hwinfo set points as they are from a previous test session.Surfed web while TM5 was running.
Open bench.Fan on memory.20-21c ambient.


----------



## satinghostrider

Forsaken1 said:


> EK Monarch installed on DELL hynix single side.Ya the green ones.Outside of what is provided in kit from EK.I used 2-120x20x1.5 thermal pads.This was placed on non chip(hynix) side of heat spreader..
> Thermal pads provided in EK kit are doubled up on each hynix chip and across pmic area.This was in need for contact with heat spreader.So far so good.
> 
> Disregard hwinfo set points as they are from a previous test session.Surfed web while TM5 was running.
> Open bench.Fan on memory.20-21c ambient.
> 
> View attachment 2541142


So they aren't drastically different for DDR4 for the Monarch these EK modules. Back of Monarch required 1.5mm.pads, memory nands 0.5mm and PMIC is 1mm given EK supplies only 0.5mm pads and stacking them up for the PMIC means 1mm on them bastards.


----------



## oc22jirM

Forsaken1 said:


> Two different solutions either or.Placing 2-80mm fans or size of your choice over VRM is never a bad idea.
> 
> I had to do it: AT shamino1978. Can I get a bios for Tachyon.🤣🤣🤣


Thanks! Lolllll don't tag him 😂


----------



## Forsaken1

satinghostrider said:


> So they aren't drastically different for DDR4 for the Monarch these EK modules. Back of Monarch required 1.5mm.pads, memory nands 0.5mm and PMIC is 1mm given EK supplies only 0.5mm pads and stacking them up for the PMIC means 1mm on them bastards.


Yes sir. 
If i knew what i know now.I would order 1mm across all hynix chips and pmic area and save some headache.


----------



## oc22jirM

Nizzen said:


> Errors starting around 58-60c for me with aircooling. Fan over dimm and its about 48c max. Watercooled 30-35c 😅
> Cold dimms is a good start for 6000+ 1t


Sounds good! Can't wait for that fan to get here. Coming from aliexpress and might take 3 weeks but I should have the other kit by then to see which performs the best. Thanks!


----------



## satinghostrider

Forsaken1 said:


> Yes sir.
> If i knew what i know now.I would order 1mm across all hynix chips and pmic area and save some headache.


Yeah it sucks but oh well.
I'm half my mind to rip off my Trident Z RGB heatsink to just change to better pads and put one on the PMIC. Just that don't think it's worth cooling these Samsung ones since eventually Hynix will the resident lord for most 2 dimm boards and that will be worth watercooling it. 
But yeah, the EK modules work really well with good pads and some thermal paste between the adjoining pieces.


----------



## satinghostrider

mattjirmanos said:


> Sounds good! Can't wait for that fan to get here. Coming from aliexpress and might take 3 weeks but I should have the other kit by then to see which performs the best. Thanks!


Works very well with a fan there.
I'm using my old Corsair Vengeance airflow in the meantime and I'm getting 46 degrees tops during testmem5.


----------



## stn1

bigfootnz said:


> Thanks, just to confirm for example for tWR 20 I need to set tWRPRE 57 and tWRPDEN 58?


59
Twr controls twrpre
Twrpden controls twr
On ddr4 twrpre = twrpden, on ddr5 twrpre = twrden+2


----------



## bigfootnz

stn1 said:


> 59
> Twr controls twrpre
> Twrpden controls twr
> On ddr4 twrpre = twrpden, on ddr5 twrpre = twrden+2


Then I need only to set Twrpden, and twr&twrpre will be adjusted automatically?

On my board as per mem tweak twrpre=twrden-1?


----------



## bigfootnz

stn1 said:


> 59
> Twr controls twrpre
> Twrpden controls twr
> On ddr4 twrpre = twrpden, on ddr5 twrpre = twrden+2


I’ve just tested on my board, I wanted to set twr to 24. Entered twrpden 62, which set twr to 24 (asrock timing) and 27 (per mem tweakit), but twrpre was 133 in bios and mem tweakit. At leats on my board twrpre is not controlled by twrpden.

Does anybody know why mem tweakit and asrock timing are showing different value for twr, in my case difference is 3?


----------



## stn1

Memtweakit doesnt read twr correctly, asrock timing utility .13 does


----------



## bigfootnz

stn1 said:


> Memtweakit doesnt read twr correctly, asrock timing utility .13 does


Are you able to clarify your statement regarding twrpre , twrpden and twr?


----------



## stn1

bigfootnz said:


> Are you able to clarify your statement regarding twrpre , twrpden and twr?


As i said, what you input into twr on asus board commands twrpre as per usual formula twr + twcl + 6, but twr itself won't be set if twrprden isnt set at twrpre+2

Afaik msi sets everything automatically by just inputting twr.
Another one of the asus weirdness I guess


----------



## skullbringer

Forsaken1 said:


> EK Monarch installed on DELL hynix single side.Ya the green ones.Outside of what is provided in kit from EK.I used 2-120x20x1.5 thermal pads.This was placed on non chip(hynix) side of heat spreader..
> Thermal pads provided in EK kit are doubled up on each hynix chip and across pmic area.This was in need for contact with heat spreader.So far so good.
> 
> Disregard hwinfo set points as they are from a previous test session.Surfed web while TM5 was running.
> Open bench.Fan on memory.20-21c ambient.
> 
> View attachment 2541142


hot damn, ddr5 really loves cold! I'm running passively atm with hynix, tried 2 kits, need 1.5 V and I'm a quite a bit looser on... everything 
wonder how low you can push tWRWR_sg and tRDRD_sg at those temps, maybe even below 10


----------



## Carillo

Receiving my Super cool DDR5 coolers next week  Reported delta only 2 °C under load. . As you can see, water is flowing over the IC's like no other dram cooler


----------



## YaqY

Carillo said:


> Receiving my Super cool DDR5 coolers next week  Reported delta only 2 °C under load. . As you can see, water is flowing over the IC's like no other dram cooler
> View attachment 2541199
> 
> View attachment 2541196
> 
> View attachment 2541195
> 
> View attachment 2541198
> 
> View attachment 2541197


What pads do you use between the ics and heatspreaders or do you use a paste?


----------



## Carillo

YaqY said:


> What pads do you use between the ics and heatspreaders or do you use a paste?


Kingpin KPX on IC used for this Delta


----------



## bigfootnz

stn1 said:


> As i said, what you input into twr on asus board commands twrpre as per usual formula twr + twcl + 6, but twr itself won't be set if twrprden isnt set at twrpre+2
> 
> Afaik msi sets everything automatically by just inputting twr.
> Another one of the asus weirdness I guess


On Asus if you setup twr both twrpre and twrpden are set automatically. Only twrpden is twrpre+1.
But that was my question do I need to set twr or twrpre/twrpden? As on ddr4 you needed to set twrpre and not trw.


----------



## Esenel

Carillo said:


> Receiving my Super cool DDR5 coolers next week  Reported delta only 2 °C under load. . As you can see, water is flowing over the IC's like no other dram cooler


That's very good.
But also a lot of effort compared to an old EK Monarch where you have a delta of 4K at 1.60V.

Maybe I order them as well at some point 
They look beefy


----------



## Carillo

Esenel said:


> That's very good.
> But also a lot of effort compared to an old EK Monarch where you have a delta of 4K at 1.60V.
> 
> Maybe I order them as well at some point
> They look beefy


The higher the power output, the higher Delta gets of course, I saw around 7-9 degree delta on my ddr4 SR under load, with ddr5 i see 10-14 degree delta under load. SO it's a big difference from ddr4 with Monarch  Can't wait to try them out.


----------



## skullbringer

Carillo said:


> Receiving my Super cool DDR5 coolers next week  Reported delta only 2 °C under load. . As you can see, water is flowing over the IC's like no other dram cooler
> View attachment 2541199
> 
> View attachment 2541196
> 
> View attachment 2541195
> 
> View attachment 2541198
> 
> View attachment 2541197


supercool computers or another manufacturer?


----------



## Carillo

skullbringer said:


> supercool computers or another manufacturer?


Correct 









Supercool computer


Supercool computer. Отметки "Нравится": 7 532. จำหน่ายอุปกรณ์ระบายความร้อนคอมพิวเตอร์




www.facebook.com


----------



## Forsaken1

These showed up on tachyon QVL.
My money is on Samsung Ddr5 being top dog down the road. But when I go to Vegas I rarely come home with the cash.

7000AORUS16GB1Rx8ARS32G70D5SSSamsung40-40-40-801.5v


----------



## Carillo

Forsaken1 said:


> These showed up on tachyon QVL.
> My money is on Samsung Ddr5 being top dog down the road. But when I go to Vegas I rarely come home with the cash.
> 
> 7000AORUS16GB1Rx8ARS32G70D5SSSamsung40-40-40-801.5v


According to my info this is GEN 2 samsung IC's , NOT the current poops


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> According to my info this is GEN 2 samsung IC's , NOT the current poops


any more hints to distinguish these?


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> any more hints to distinguish these?


They don't exist in the current market as far as i know. Typical G.skill to announce products that either hits the market 2 years later or never...


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> These showed up on tachyon QVL.
> My money is on Samsung Ddr5 being top dog down the road. But when I go to Vegas I rarely come home with the cash.
> 
> 7000AORUS16GB1Rx8ARS32G70D5SSSamsung40-40-40-801.5v


i don't think money would help. even the micron 5200xmp aorus kits are extremely hard to get in the market. some hynix aorus kits are sent to reviewers.
seems kidnapping hicookie is the only way to get samsung aorus kit.


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> i don't think money would help. even the micron 5200xmp aorus kits are extremely hard to get in the market. some hynix aorus kits are sent to reviewers.
> seems kidnapping hicookie is the only way to get samsung aorus kit.


Aorus DDR5 plentiful on eBay US past few weeks.All the good sticks drying up now.

@hicookie send me a set of 7000+😇


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> Aorus DDR5 plentiful on eBay US past few weeks.All the good sticks drying up now.
> 
> Hicookie send me a set of 7000+😇


seriously? all micron 5200?


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> seriously? all micron 5200?


Now only 5200.But few weeks ago could have picked up aorus Hynix anytime for a hefty price.

Comprehension must get lost in translation.


----------



## ObviousCough

I wish i could get some hynix sticks.

I've tried my samsung on two different cpus now and neither one let me just enable xmp and reboot.


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> seriously? all micron 5200?


Pretty ironic, but the best ram you can buy currently looks something like this 










NOT like this!!! :


----------



## jomama22

bigfootnz said:


> Are you able to clarify your statement regarding twrpre , twrpden and twr?


Twr dies not exist as a register in the CPU as it stands anyway, only wrpre and wrpden, so what is output by any timing software really doesn't matter. Should just focus on wrpre and wrpden. Wrpre can be adjusted (usually lower) for stability though Asus standard is to set it wrpden + 1.


----------



## Esenel

Carillo said:


> The higher the power output, the higher Delta gets of course, I saw around 7-9 degree delta on my ddr4 SR under load, with ddr5 i see 10-14 degree delta under load. SO it's a big difference from ddr4 with Monarch  Can't wait to try them out.


The 4K delta at 1.60V are with DDR5 sticks.
@Carillo 
EK Monarch with XSPC X4.


----------



## dante`afk

ObviousCough said:


> I wish i could get some hynix sticks.
> 
> I've tried my samsung on two different cpus now and neither one let me just enable xmp and reboot.


just look on ebay, plenty selling the dell 4800 sk hynix stick for msrp.




Carillo said:


> Receiving my Super cool DDR5 coolers next week  Reported delta only 2 °C under load. . As you can see, water is flowing over the IC's like no other dram cooler
> View attachment 2541199
> 
> View attachment 2541196
> 
> View attachment 2541195
> 
> View attachment 2541198
> 
> View attachment 2541197



getting mine as well next week, as well as the direct die block


----------



## ObviousCough

I have to borrow someones ebay account so getting things on there isn't so easy for me.

I need to stop being lazy and figure out my samsung sticks. Everyone else is doing 6000+


----------



## matique

snakeeyes111 said:


> Can u test tm5 yumusv3 pls?


i went back to 6200 profile as i was afraid the 1.55v for 6400 profile was too much. Here's for the 6200. When i manage to get lower voltage for the 6400 i'll test again on tm5.


----------



## snakeeyes111

I sell my Dell also for msrp... Just for info if someone need. Location Germany


----------



## ObviousCough

What's up with these 2x8 16GB kits i'm seeing?


----------



## Forsaken1

ObviousCough said:


> What's up with these 2x8 16GB kits i'm seeing?


It’s a no go.
DDR4 in disguise as DDR5.


----------



## mattxx88

dante`afk said:


> getting mine as well next week, as well as the direct die block


did you already delidded it? 👀


----------



## dante`afk

no, he's sending also a delid kit with it


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> no, he's sending also a delid kit with it


worked great. Delid took 3 minutes 

even RGB 🤣


----------



## warbucks

dante`afk said:


> no, he's sending also a delid kit with it


Where did you buy this from?


----------



## dante`afk

carillo mentioned it a page before @warbucks

i ordered full copper instead of acryl.

what's the liquid in your tubing, piss?  how many QDCs do you have in total and flowrate?


----------



## Carillo

warbucks said:


> Where did you buy this from?


just contact this man. He is basically the whole company




dante`afk said:


> carillo mentioned it a page before @warbucks
> 
> i ordered full copper instead of acryl.
> 
> what's the liquid in your tubing, piss?  how many QDCs do you have in total and flowrate?


Yes, it's my piss. Been saving for months to fill up my loop... I know, the hoses is really old  Ordered some new ones from primochill in white  The loop consists of a Bmw M4 electric waterpump, and a 1987 Toyota copper radiator in my attic with a Volvo XC70 fan attached to it. The fan is PWM/frequency modulated, so the loop holds 15 celsius at all times, even with a 3090 using XOC bios  At least during spring, autumn and winter.


----------



## dante`afk

we need a video tour of that


----------



## ObviousCough

tCL36 won't boot, but it is stable.

:|


----------



## Forsaken1

ObviousCough said:


> tCL36 won't boot, but it is stable.
> 
> :|


Thats a B itch.Hopefully someone can shed some light on subject.
Was tempted to toss Sammy’s back in for a play.But na.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Carillo said:


> You forgot to tag Shamino in your post


Classic!


----------



## skullbringer

ObviousCough said:


> tCL36 won't boot, but it is stable.
> 
> :|


video does not load for me, but if you are changing tCL in OS, that's not really applying, even if cpu-z and asrtc show the new value. from what I understand the reason is that RTLs must be retrained for a new tCL to apply and that can only happen during memory training at post.


----------



## bigfootnz

jomama22 said:


> Twr dies not exist as a register in the CPU as it stands anyway, only wrpre and wrpden, so what is output by any timing software really doesn't matter. Should just focus on wrpre and wrpden. Wrpre can be adjusted (usually lower) for stability though Asus standard is to set it wrpden + 1.


If I set Twr in bios wrpre and wrpden are set automaticly as wrpre and wrpre+1. Would you recommend to set manually wrpre and wrpden in bios or setting twr in bios is sufficient?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

ObviousCough said:


> I wish i could get some hynix sticks.
> 
> I've tried my samsung on two different cpus now and neither one let me just enable xmp and reboot.


I have a second set of Dell SK Hynix coming. PM me interested.


----------



## jomama22

bigfootnz said:


> If I set Twr in bios wrpre and wrpden are set automaticly as wrpre and wrpre+1. Would you recommend to set manually wrpre and wrpden in bios or setting twr in bios is sufficient?


Doesn't really matter on an Asus mb. Others will limit twr to 48 minimum, which forces you to use tWRPDEN to go lower. Just don't set a tWRPDEN if you set twr. You can change tWRPRE all you want though.


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> video does not load for me, but if you are changing tCL in OS, that's not really applying, even if cpu-z and asrtc show the new value. from what I understand the reason is that RTLs must be retrained for a new tCL to apply and that can only happen during memory training at post.


I don't think you've been able to change CAS in OS since DDR1 days.


----------



## Fantik

I think TM5 maybe have something wrong. Is the only program that shows errors. All the other 0 errors 🤔 I game I run OCCT 8h I run Prime95 blend, memtest86 HCI Karhu 10.000% Intel diagnostic tool all in extreme 0 errors, TM5 errors in 3 cycles... Anyone know something about this test and if it is stable or properly for Windows 11 maybe have some issue 🤔


----------



## jomama22

Fantik said:


> I think TM5 maybe have something wrong. Is the only program that shows errors. All the other 0 errors 🤔 I game I run OCCT 8h I run Prime95 blend, memtest86 HCI Karhu 10.000% Intel diagnostic tool all in extreme 0 errors, TM5 errors in 3 cycles... Anyone know something about this test and if it is stable or properly for Windows 11 maybe have some issue 🤔


Nothing wrong with the program, especially since you are able to get through two cycles fine. The OC isn't fully stable. Would genuinely always use tm5 during tuning and once that's stable, then test others.


----------



## munternet

Fantik said:


> I think TM5 maybe have something wrong. Is the only program that shows errors. All the other 0 errors 🤔 I game I run OCCT 8h I run Prime95 blend, memtest86 HCI Karhu 10.000% Intel diagnostic tool all in extreme 0 errors, TM5 errors in 3 cycles... Anyone know something about this test and if it is stable or properly for Windows 11 maybe have some issue 🤔


Have you tried GSAT?


----------



## Fantik

jomama22 said:


> Nothing wrong with the program, especially since you are able to get through two cycles fine. The OC isn't fully stable. Would genuinely always use tm5 during tuning and once that's stable, then test others.


Ok, I will try harder 😓 I'm having some hard time to get my Z5 6000 c36 stable in XMP I
2 times I pass the 3 cycles but today I try to tight more the memory timings and now I can't run stable even in XMP I


----------



## Fantik

munternet said:


> Have you tried GSAT?


GSAT....? What is GSAT?


----------



## Fantik

munternet said:


> Have you tried GSAT?


Ok. I'm trying GSAT. I found here in the site. With these parameters 'stressapptest -W -s 3600'


----------



## munternet

Fantik said:


> GSAT....? What is GSAT?


Link is in my sig to a few resources


----------



## Fantik

munternet said:


> Link is in my sig to a few resources


Ahahah and I don't see that 🥳 maybe is a little late 😅 So the command I have put is the best to test this memory?


----------



## Fantik

munternet said:


> Link is in my sig to a few resources


Hum... I pass GSAT and now TM5... I don't use more TM5.


----------



## opt33

Fantik said:


> I think TM5 maybe have something wrong. Is the only program that shows errors. All the other 0 errors 🤔 I game I run OCCT 8h I run Prime95 blend, memtest86 HCI Karhu 10.000% Intel diagnostic tool all in extreme 0 errors, TM5 errors in 3 cycles... Anyone know something about this test and if it is stable or properly for Windows 11 maybe have some issue 🤔


HCI/GSAT are more extensive tests, but TM5 hammers simple patterns with higher temps. If passes other tests, and only fails TM5 after a while, probably temp dependent overclock, ie edge of stability where raising temps ~5C causes eventual errors, you can monitor the temps and check. I have temp dependent settings I bench with, but not 24/7 use. If you do use those settings a ram fan would be useful and remembering if you get bsods/CTD it isnt the game that is unstable.


----------



## Fantik

opt33 said:


> HCI/GSAT are more extensive tests, but TM5 hammers simple patterns with higher temps. If passes other tests, and only fails TM5 after a while, probably temp dependent overclock, ie edge of stability where raising temps ~5C causes eventual errors, you can monitor the temps and check. I have temp dependent settings I bench with, but not 24/7 use. If you do use those settings a ram fan would be useful and remembering if you get bsods/CTD it isnt the game that is unstable.


I think that too. The temps turns my XMP with TM5 very unstable the 2 times I have passed TM5 my temps are in the high 30 not 45 50 like today 🤔 DDR5 thermal sensitivity jeez! In the summer OMG


----------



## Fantik

opt33 said:


> HCI/GSAT are more extensive tests, but TM5 hammers simple patterns with higher temps. If passes other tests, and only fails TM5 after a while, probably temp dependent overclock, ie edge of stability where raising temps ~5C causes eventual errors, you can monitor the temps and check. I have temp dependent settings I bench with, but not 24/7 use. If you do use those settings a ram fan would be useful and remembering if you get bsods/CTD it isnt the game that is unstable.


I'm just using XMP I 
what do you think about this issue...
It's better to return the memory?


----------



## Arni90

MC VDD 1.250V
VCCSA 1.150V

tREFI caused random errors in Karhu at 20K and higher for me, the only way to even run 15000 was to lower tREFIx9 to 60


----------



## opt33

Fantik said:


> I'm just using XMP I
> what do you think about this issue...
> It's better to return the memory?


If XMP1 is stable by raising voltage a little above specified ( ie like 1.33v instead of 1.30v), I wouldnt return it, especially since next kit may be the same. Verification on one bios/mobo doesnt mean exact same voltage needed on different mobo/bios, many kits I have to bump volts slightly vs xmp rating to point if I do test XMP, if rated at 1.25 I would test 1.28v to 1.30v. One of the many reasons I just dont bother with XMP.


----------



## Fantik

opt33 said:


> If XMP1 is stable by raising voltage a little above specified ( ie like 1.33v instead of 1.30v), I wouldnt return it, especially since next kit may be the same. Verification on one bios/mobo doesnt mean exact same voltage needed on different mobo/bios, many kits I have to bump volts slightly vs xmp rating to point if I do test XMP, if rated at 1.25 I would test 1.28v to 1.30v. One of the many reasons I just dont bother with XMP.


That's comprehensive and I understand. 
But in my case when I bump volts they crash quickly in TM5... Maybe it's a temperature issue. And seems logical by this point of view. I'm trying a stupid thing but for now I have pass the MemTest86 hammer test included and I'm in cycle 2 of TM5 (Extreme1 @anta777) 1 hour to finish 😕🙂


----------



## Fantik

opt33 said:


> If XMP1 is stable by raising voltage a little above specified ( ie like 1.33v instead of 1.30v), I wouldnt return it, especially since next kit may be the same. Verification on one bios/mobo doesnt mean exact same voltage needed on different mobo/bios, many kits I have to bump volts slightly vs xmp rating to point if I do test XMP, if rated at 1.25 I would test 1.28v to 1.30v. One of the many reasons I just dont bother with XMP.


Now I have pass...









It's normal the consumption of the DIMM's be so different?


----------



## opt33

Fantik said:


> Now I have pass...
> It's normal the consumption of the DIMM's be so different?


yes normal. Also if you are running 1.30v and error at higher temps, increasing the voltage to 1.33v despite raising temps couple C will usually stop error at higher temps as also increases stability. If not then may be some timing needs adjusting.


----------



## asdkj1740

MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X Gaming Motherboard ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors - 19+2 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0


The MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ATX motherboard features Direct 19+2 Phases and 105A SPS Power Solution, 4 x latest DDR5 DIMMs (dual channel) with Memory Boost architecture (6800+ MHz/OC), and dual steel-reinforced PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for heavy-duty GPU’s.




tw.msi.com




is samsung b = gen 2 and samsung = gen 1?


----------



## Fantik

opt33 said:


> yes normal. Also if you are running 1.30v and error at higher temps, increasing the voltage to 1.33v despite raising temps couple C will usually stop error at higher temps as also increases stability. If not then may be some timing needs adjusting.


Thanks for following my problem and help 😉


----------



## nickolp1974

just having a play at raw mhz with this gskill 6kc36 kit Intel Core i9 12900K @ 4080.08 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR also got it to boot at 7200mhz but crashed when opening cpuz
My 1st submission in over 3 years!!! nickolp1974`s Memory Frequency score: 3570 MHz with a DDR5 SDRAM


----------



## Lord Alzov

Fantik said:


> I think TM5 maybe have something wrong. Is the only program that shows errors. All the other 0 errors 🤔 I game I run OCCT 8h I run Prime95 blend, memtest86 HCI Karhu 10.000% Intel diagnostic tool all in extreme 0 errors, TM5 errors in 3 cycles... Anyone know something about this test and if it is stable or properly for Windows 11 maybe have some issue 🤔


TM5 good choice for test memory and not FAST preset!!!! U need 1+hour preset with 3 cycle. If memory work good u have 0 error.


----------



## AvengedRobix

This old tool designer for vengeance DDR3 mount on a new mb with vengeance ddr5?









Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A6013 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## oc22jirM

AvengedRobix said:


> This old tool designer for vengeance DDR3 mount on a new mb with vengeance ddr5?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A6013 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yes, another forum member posted a pic with this same cooler on his ram. I was also recommended the new alseye 2x60mm ram fan by another forum member, it's currently on the way.


----------



## Fantik

AvengedRobix said:


> This old tool designer for vengeance DDR3 mount on a new mb with vengeance ddr5?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A6013 utilizzando Tapatalk


Hi I have purchased this one...








For now it's seems fine.

After this a waterblock like this...








EK-RAM Monarch Module - Black (2pcs)


EK-RAM Monarch Module is a heatsink adapter which allows virtually any (DDR-)SDRAM memory module (of any generation) to employ EK-RAM Monarch series water blocks. Not compatible with Corsair Dominator Platinum Memory Kits!




www.ekwb.com


----------



## Forsaken1

1 hr of free time.Goal.Lowest latency at 6800.Custom water CPU.


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> 1 hr of free time.Goal.Lowest latency at 6800.Custom water CPU.
> 
> View attachment 2541522


voltages like tx and vdd2 and pmic vdd and pmic vddq?


----------



## sugi0lover

Stable OC focused on latency setting~

CPU : 12900K (SP91) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E disabled, Cache 5.0Ghz)
Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
Ram OC : 6400Mhz-26-37-37-28-280-1T
MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)
Voltages (Bios) : VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.570v / MC 1.30625v / SA 1.270v (Edit : VDD/VDDQ drops to 1.500v at TM5)
Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.













[CMO File]





Apex690_6400261T.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## xl_digit

what you guys say about the technical limitation for Hynix Modules VDD/VDDQ = 1.5V ? 
postet from @shamino1978


----------



## Fantik

sugi0lover said:


> Stable OC focused on latency setting~
> 
> CPU : 12900K (SP91) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E disabled, Cache 5.0Ghz)
> Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> Ram OC : 6400Mhz-26-37-37-28-280-1T
> MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)
> Voltages (Bios) : VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.570v / MC 1.30625v / SA 1.270v (Edit : VDD/VDDQ drops to 1.500v at TM5)
> Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2541563
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [CMO File]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex690_6400261T.CMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


How can you run 10 cycles of TM5 in 1 hour? 
I need 1h and 48min to run 3 cycles. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## sugi0lover

Fantik said:


> How can you run 10 cycles of TM5 in 1 hour?
> I need 1h and 48min to run 3 cycles.
> Thanks in advance


The time to complete 1 cycle of tm5 depends on
1. The profile of tm5. extreme, absolute and etc
2. The speed of ram. 1t, 2t, 6400, 4800 and etc
3. The available space of Ram that tm5 tests
Look at the pic below. This windows is normal version not optimized version, so it has like 1~2gb less ram available, so 1 cycle completed in 7 min.


----------



## domdtxdissar

^^ use maxmem and complete 1 cycle in 10sec if wanted


----------



## Fantik

sugi0lover said:


> The time to complete 1 cycle of tm5 depends on
> 1. The profile of tm5. extreme, absolute and etc
> 2. The speed of ram. 1t, 2t, 6400, 4800 and etc
> 3. The available space of Ram that tm5 tests
> Look at the pic below. This windows is normal version not optimized version, so it has like 1~2gb less ram available, so 1 cycle completed in 7 min.
> View attachment 2541590


Ok, Thanks for the explanation. I don't know that we can change some parameters. 👍


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> voltages like tx and vdd2 and pmic vdd and pmic vddq?


Enough info provided to head in a direction.
I do not believe in participation trophy’s or a free lunch.🤬


----------



## Lord Alzov

sugi0lover said:


> The time to complete 1 cycle of tm5 depends on
> 1. The profile of tm5. extreme, absolute and etc
> 2. The speed of ram. 1t, 2t, 6400, 4800 and etc
> 3. The available space of Ram that tm5 tests
> Look at the pic below. This windows is normal version not optimized version, so it has like 1~2gb less ram available, so 1 cycle completed in 7 min.
> View attachment 2541590


Can u share me save bios .CMO file?) for 6400t1?


----------



## sugi0lover

Lord Alzov said:


> Can u share me save bios .CMO file?) for 6400t1?


Check my post #1421 ~


----------



## Lord Alzov

sugi0lover said:


> Check my post #1421 ~


Ty man! From Russia with love! Now i on watercool ram have 6800 stable!


----------



## Lord Alzov

6933 not stable


----------



## Nizzen

xl_digit said:


> what you guys say about the technical limitation for Hynix Modules VDD/VDDQ = 1.5V ?
> postet from @shamino1978
> 
> View attachment 2541584


There is no problem with 1.5v+ if the memory is cold enough  Like everything else hardware 
DDR4 with 1.8v on air isn't a problem while benchmarking.....


----------



## Bilco

My Dell Hynix modules just arrived. Since my sticks with micron hit a wall early I haven't been following this thread too closely but am going to start to reread and write stuff down from this thread. 

Does anyone have some quick and dirty settings for moderate voltages they can throw at me to try which should work as a good starting point? Also which bios seems to work the best atm for the Apex board? I'm going to be cooling these with some monarch heatsinks with a corsair ram cooler above it. I may integrate it into the water loop if the sticks seem worth while.


----------



## dante`afk

@Bilco jus try to cpy any sk hynix settings, they should all work more or less, you just need to find sweetspot fo SA/IMC/VDD voltages for your cpu.


9901 bios seems pretty good, this was done after 3 cold reboots, aida test after running karhu.


----------



## nickolp1974

sugi0lover said:


> Stable OC focused on latency setting~
> 
> CPU : 12900K (SP91) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E disabled, Cache 5.0Ghz)
> Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> Ram OC : 6400Mhz-26-37-37-28-280-1T
> MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)
> Voltages (Bios) : VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.570v / MC 1.30625v / SA 1.270v (Edit : VDD/VDDQ drops to 1.500v at TM5)
> Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2541563
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [CMO File]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex690_6400261T.CMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


you have a link to 9901 bios??


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> There is no problem with 1.5v+ if the memory is cold enough  Like everything else hardware
> DDR4 with 1.8v on air isn't a problem while benchmarking.....


What about VDDQ tx ? Its for CPU voltage? on 1.55-1.6 its help for 6933+ or 1t.


----------



## Carillo

"It's a wrap". Last push with the voltage-limited value ram, before the MSI UNIFY-X is arriving Monday  

Ram : Kingston Value 4800 CL40
VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.410v / MC 1.19v / SA 1.240v 

6400 c30 1T


----------



## biigshow666

how are you all mounting the ram cooler when the pcie unlock plastic is in the way


----------



## sugi0lover

nickolp1974 said:


> you have a link to 9901 bios??


Here it is!








ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9901.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## biigshow666

Gskil 6000c36 kit arrived and won't even boot with xmp. Tried all kinds of voltage. Back it goes.


----------



## nickolp1974

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9901.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


thank you


----------



## nickolp1974

biigshow666 said:


> Gskil 6000c36 kit arrived and won't even boot with xmp. Tried all kinds of voltage. Back it goes.


mine has been faultless to be fair, im on 0046 bios, 6.2k(102bclk) c32 no bother, wont boot straight at 6200 and neither will hynix yet. Altough i can boot 7000 samsung loose timings


----------



## biigshow666

nickolp1974 said:


> mine has been faultless to be fair, im on 0046 bios, 6.2k(102bclk) c32 no bother, wont boot straight at 6200 and neither will hynix yet. Altough i can boot 7000 samsung loose timings


strix f motherboard so i don't have that bios yet... just put my corsairs back in 5600 stable no issues.


----------



## munternet

How is 64GB going on the Apex?
Or any board for that matter
Waiting for my Apex and Dell 64GB to arrive and tossing up whether to wait for the 12900KS if it's coming?
Maybe I'll get a 12900K now and swap it later depending on the lottery


----------



## OC-YS

Kingston FURY _KF556C40BBK2 5600Mhz CL40 _
Does anyone know if this is Hynix?


----------



## Avacado

OC-YS said:


> Kingston FURY _KF556C40BBK2 5600Mhz CL40 _
> Does anyone know if this is Hynix?


But your name isn't @Falkentyne. Change your avatar you thief.


----------



## OC-YS

Avacado said:


> But your name isn't @Falkentyne. Change your avatar you thief.


sorry i changed the picture


----------



## Avacado

OC-YS said:


> sorry i changed the picture


It's either Micron (Early production) or Hynix. Impossible to tell unless someone here owns the exact kit.


----------



## sugi0lover

a little higher oc with bclk oc.
(note : bclk oc results in better ADIA64 than it actually is)

CPU : 12900K (SP91) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E disabled, Cache 5.1Ghz)
Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
Ram OC : *6520Mhz-26-37-37-26-280-1T (bclk 101.9) *
MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)
Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.660v / MC 1.30625v / SA 1.270v (VDD/VDDQ drops to 1.575v at TM5)
Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## Avacado

5.5GHz all core @1.37v and 5.1GHz Uncore. Sick man.


----------



## Avacado

munternet said:


> How is 64GB going on the Apex?
> Or any board for that matter
> Waiting for my Apex and Dell 64GB to arrive and tossing up whether to wait for the 12900KS if it's coming?
> Maybe I'll get a 12900K now and swap it later depending on the lottery


I'll let you know tomorrow. Second 32GB kit arriving. Though G.Skill 5600 (Samsung) chips. Had to wait for an RMA of the first kit.


----------



## Fantik

Avacado said:


> But your name isn't @Falkentyne. Change your avatar you thief.


That kit exactly I don't know but my Kingston Fury Beast 4800MHz CL38 are Hynix.
I think you can see that with AIDA64 or other program. I see mine in a program but I don't remember now 🤔


----------



## Fantik

OC-YS said:


> Kingston FURY _KF556C40BBK2 5600Mhz CL40 _
> Does anyone know if this is Hynix?


Your memory are Hynix


----------



## inedenimadam

munternet said:


> How is 64GB going on the Apex?
> Or any board for that matter
> Waiting for my Apex and Dell 64GB to arrive and tossing up whether to wait for the 12900KS if it's coming?
> Maybe I'll get a 12900K now and swap it later depending on the lottery


I am by no means an expert on this, heck I can't get my samsung kit to stabilize anything over XMP or tighten any timings over XMP (6000 C36)
But for sure the DR hynix kit I have hits a wall earlier. I may throw them back in and play around again this weekend. I will report back if I can stabilize anything higher than 5400C32.


----------



## asdkj1740

biigshow666 said:


> Gskil 6000c36 kit arrived and won't even boot with xmp. Tried all kinds of voltage. Back it goes.


maybe try disable fast boot.



Fantik said:


> Your memory are Hynix
> View attachment 2541700


even some 5200 fury is hynix.


https://www.hkepc.com/20702/%E9%BB%9E%E8%A7%A3%E4%BF%82_SK_Hynix_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92__Kingston_Fury_Beast_D5-5200_32GB_Kit


----------



## biigshow666

asdkj1740 said:


> maybe try disable fast boot.
> 
> 
> even some 5200 fury is hynix.
> 
> 
> https://www.hkepc.com/20702/%E9%BB%9E%E8%A7%A3%E4%BF%82_SK_Hynix_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92__Kingston_Fury_Beast_D5-5200_32GB_Kit


thanks but I dropped it off to UPS already. The strangest thing now that I have reinstalled my old corsair sticks I lost all stability from my previous settings. games have been crashing all night and I cannot run a ten seconds of tm5 without an error.


----------



## satinghostrider

biigshow666 said:


> thanks but I dropped it off to UPS already. The strangest thing now that I have reinstalled my old corsair sticks I lost all stability from my previous settings. games have been crashing all night and I cannot run a ten seconds of tm5 without an error.


Load Optimized Defaults> Save and Exit.
Boot into Windows.
Shutdown.
Then go into bios and key in all your settings from scratch. See if that works.


----------



## Nizzen

OC-YS said:


> Kingston FURY _KF556C40BBK2 5600Mhz CL40 _
> Does anyone know if this is Hynix?


Most likely samsung if its new.

Only the early batches of kingston was hynix. Even 4800 was hynix. Same product number is now micron.

5600 may be lucky hynix, but luck isn't very high.
To be 100% you need to test it.
My opinion.


----------



## Nizzen

Fantik said:


> That kit exactly I don't know but my Kingston Fury Beast 4800MHz CL38 are Hynix.
> I think you can see that with AIDA64 or other program. I see mine in a program but I don't remember now 🤔


Cpu-z is telling you if they are micron,samsung or hynix


----------



## Xeq54

biigshow666 said:


> thanks but I dropped it off to UPS already. The strangest thing now that I have reinstalled my old corsair sticks I lost all stability from my previous settings. games have been crashing all night and I cannot run a ten seconds of tm5 without an error.


If you have an asus mobo then it was a bit premature to return the Gskills. Asus bios is trash currently for Samsung DRAM and generally for RAM OC and stability between boots etc. You need to jump through unnecessary hoops to make any settings stable. So its not Gskill fault, Asus needs to sort this out.


----------



## asdkj1740

Xeq54 said:


> If you have an asus mobo then it was a bit premature to return the Gskills. Asus bios is trash currently for Samsung DRAM and generally for RAM OC and stability between boots etc. You need to jump through unnecessary hoops to make any settings stable. So its not Gskill fault, Asus needs to sort this out.


are you gskill's guy?


----------



## snakeeyes111

Someone know 6E on Apex ? Since my hynix i cant go 64001t, 68002t or something like this. Training always fail on 6E -> 00 retrain. Only high sa seems to help like 1.4v.


Is there any way to reinstall me? Think my is broken....


----------



## cstkl1

View attachment 2541760

Apex Bios 0021 seems fine


----------



## Xeq54

Anyone knows if these corsair vengeance are Micron or Hynix ? 

CMK32GX5M2A4800C40

Cannot find them in any QVL list.


----------



## Lord Alzov

snakeeyes111 said:


> Someone know 6E on Apex ? Since my hynix i cant go 64001t, 68002t or something like this. Training always fail on 6E -> 00 retrain. Only high sa seems to help like 1.4v.
> 
> 
> Is there any way to reinstall me? Think my is broken....


U was stable this settings? Or why u think ram and IMC can 6800 ?


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2541760
> 
> Apex Bios 0021 seems fine


Settings is still a secret ?


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Settings is still a secret ?


its not much diff than 6400. so if u are stable 64001T.. 6600 1T all about voltage combination

kindda weird when 6400 not so sensitive.


----------



## Forsaken1

Xeq54 said:


> Anyone knows if these corsair vengeance are Micron or Hynix ?
> 
> CMK32GX5M2A4800C40
> 
> Cannot find them in any QVL list.


Set I had micron.Yellow box.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Lord Alzov said:


> U was stable this settings? Or why u think ram and IMC can 6800 ?


Nope, but i have to Check this before. Dimms boot all +7000 if test only one. So i think its more a imc Problem. Dont hope so, but i think the imc is the Problem.


----------



## cstkl1

snakeeyes111 said:


> Nope, but i have to Check this before. Dimms boot all +7000 if test only one. So i think its more a imc Problem. Dont hope so, but i think the imc is the Problem.


thats the problem now i guess bro

is it imc, is it ram chipset, is it pmic, is it bios, does god hate ddr5?? 

which combination we can buy something else to test will cost alot of $$$$ and time.


----------



## Nizzen

I have the classic problem with Samsung and Apex:
Memory is 100% stable in memory tests. Let the computer stay idle with youtube, twitch or whatever. Start playing some games. Suddenly the memory isn't stable. It's like it is "moulding" after a while. Turn off power, then restart. Memory is stable for hours in memory tests.
I didn't have this problem with Micron. Have 7 samsung memory sets here, but same problem. Right now I have no clue.


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> I have the classic problem with Samsung and Apex:
> Memory is 100% stable in memory tests. Let the computer stay idle with youtube, twitch or whatever. Start playing some games. Suddenly the memory isn't stable. It's like it is "moulding" after a while. Turn off power, then restart. Memory is stable for hours in memory tests.
> I didn't have this problem with Micron. Have 7 samsung memory sets here, but same problem. Right now I have no clue.


Upgrade to Gigabyte


----------



## Forsaken1

“God” definitely dislikes Samsung at this time.😁


Nizzen said:


> I have the classic problem with Samsung and Apex:
> Memory is 100% stable in memory tests. Let the computer stay idle with youtube, twitch or whatever. Start playing some games. Suddenly the memory isn't stable. It's like it is "moulding" after a while. Turn off power, then restart. Memory is stable for hours in memory tests.
> I didn't have this problem with Micron. Have 7 samsung memory sets here, but same problem. Right now I have no clue.


Why sit on so much Samsung.Price is falling out.Only ram to own right now is micron on a budget or Hynix.

Edit: I am keeping one set of Sammy’s in case a rabbit is pulled out of it.


----------



## Nizzen

Forsaken1 said:


> “God” definitely dislikes Samsung at this time.😁
> 
> 
> Why sit on so much Samsung.Price is falling out.Only ram to own right now is micron on a budget or Hynix.


Waiting for the 2x Hynix. It's in "transit"


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> I have the classic problem with Samsung and Apex:
> Memory is 100% stable in memory tests. Let the computer stay idle with youtube, twitch or whatever. Start playing some games. Suddenly the memory isn't stable. It's like it is "moulding" after a while. Turn off power, then restart. Memory is stable for hours in memory tests.
> I didn't have this problem with Micron. Have 7 samsung memory sets here, but same problem. Right now I have no clue.


Hello man! I have same on APEX(HYNIX) its ASUS bad company bad bios. I stable ALL TEST MORE HOURS MEM. Play game. Shut down PC. New start and ERROR/BSOD/CRASH GAME lol. Reset bios> set timing MANUAL. and ALL TEST MORE HOURS LOL. WE need asus fix this.
FOR EXAMPLE 6800 stable 1 hours 40 min.








After REBOOT PC crash game.
Sorry bad english guys.


----------



## cstkl1

Lord Alzov said:


> Hello man! I have same on APEX(HYNIX) its ASUS bad company bad bios. I stable ALL TEST MORE HOURS MEM. Play game. Shut down PC. New start and ERROR/BSOD/CRASH GAME lol. Reset bios> set timing MANUAL. and ALL TEST MORE HOURS LOL. WE need asus fix this.
> FOR EXAMPLE 6800 stable 1 hours 40 min.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After REBOOT PC crash game.
> Sorry bad english guys.


nice oc


----------



## Lord Alzov

cstkl1 said:


> nice oc


I try 6933 CL 30 nowI change CPU and now IMC can7200+(boot)


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I boot to win with 6400c30 1t and use memtweakit to run c26 or c28, but it fails to boot with c26 or c28. What do I do now?


----------



## Carillo

Lord Alzov said:


> Hello man! I have same on APEX(HYNIX) its ASUS bad company bad bios. I stable ALL TEST MORE HOURS MEM. Play game. Shut down PC. New start and ERROR/BSOD/CRASH GAME lol. Reset bios> set timing MANUAL. and ALL TEST MORE HOURS LOL. WE need asus fix this.
> FOR EXAMPLE 6800 stable 1 hours 40 min.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After REBOOT PC crash game.
> Sorry bad english guys.


I had same issue on my Apex. My solution : 


Find stable OC and save cmo/profile.
Load file, save and exit.
Power down and unplug power.
Start up again and pass training and go straight in to bios.
Enable fast boot, so the motherboard stops training 

Stable 24/7 after every reboot/cold boot.... Should be unnecessary with a 750 dollar motherboard, but that's where we are 

This should work for @Nizzen to


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> I had same issue on my Apex. My solution :
> 
> 
> Find stable OC and save cmo/profile.
> Load file, save and exit.
> Power down and unplug power.
> Start up again and pass training and go straight in to bios.
> Enable fast boot, so the motherboard stops training
> 
> Stable 24/7 after every reboot/cold boot.... Should be unnecessary with a 750 dollar motherboard, but that's where we are
> 
> This should work for @Nizzen to


Forgot to enable fastboot I guess. Tnx


----------



## Lord Alzov

Carillo said:


> I had same issue on my Apex. My solution :
> 
> 
> Find stable OC and save cmo/profile.
> Load file, save and exit.
> Power down and unplug power.
> Start up again and pass training and go straight in to bios.
> Enable fast boot, so the motherboard stops training
> 
> Stable 24/7 after every reboot/cold boot.... Should be unnecessary with a 750 dollar motherboard, but that's where we are
> 
> This should work for @Nizzen to


Training with MRC fast boot disable? and after bios make enable?


----------



## Dinnzy

What Corsair kits are Hynix, my mc has the 5600 in stock and also the g skill rip jaw 5600. The rest is all trident. I have the trident z 5600. Think it’s worth it to buy the cl 36 5600 over c l 36 6000. I paid 350 for it ;p the 6000 would be 540 now x.x


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> What Corsair kits are Hynix, my mc has the 5600 in stock and also the g skill rip jaw 5600. The rest is all trident. I have the trident z 5600. Think it’s worth it to buy the cl 36 5600 over c l 36 6000. I paid 350 for it ;p the 6000 would be 540 now x.x


*What Hynix kits are in stock in the world?
None...

That was the question


----------



## Carillo

Lord Alzov said:


> Training with MRC fast boot disable? and after bios make enable?


Training with disabled MRC, enable after you find your stable settings


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> *What Hynix kits are in stock in the world?
> None...
> 
> That was the question


Dell "Value" Hynix are available.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> *What Hynix kits are in stock in the world?
> None...
> 
> That was the question


No problem in Russia u can buy ram 10-20-100 pieces


----------



## opt33

Carillo said:


> "It's a wrap". Last push with the voltage-limited value ram, before the MSI UNIFY-X is arriving Monday
> 
> Ram : Kingston Value 4800 CL40
> VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.410v / MC 1.19v / SA 1.240v
> 
> 6400 c30 1T


Interested to see unify-x vs apex, ie whether ram/imc or mobo/bios limited, especially on higher clocks (since im on air with samsung).

My samsung 5600c36 at 6200c32 (with posted settings except trefi lower to avoid signal degradation) with 8 days, 22+ hours gaming not a single issue on unify-x so far. But im not pushing higher clocks for 24/7 either (until better ram out).


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> I have the classic problem with Samsung and Apex:
> Memory is 100% stable in memory tests. Let the computer stay idle with youtube, twitch or whatever. Start playing some games. Suddenly the memory isn't stable. It's like it is "moulding" after a while. Turn off power, then restart. Memory is stable for hours in memory tests.
> I didn't have this problem with Micron. Have 7 samsung memory sets here, but same problem. Right now I have no clue.


Set tREFI to auto
Leave tREFIx9 on auto as well


----------



## Carillo

Anyone know a store some place in the world that have HMCG78MEBUA081N or HMCG88MEBUA081N in stock ?


----------



## dante`afk

Carillo said:


> I had same issue on my Apex. My solution :
> 
> 
> Find stable OC and save cmo/profile.
> Load file, save and exit.
> Power down and unplug power.
> Start up again and pass training and go straight in to bios.
> Enable fast boot, so the motherboard stops training
> 
> Stable 24/7 after every reboot/cold boot.... Should be unnecessary with a 750 dollar motherboard, but that's where we are
> 
> This should work for @Nizzen to


to point #1, find stable OC with mrc fastboot disabled?


----------



## biigshow666

satinghostrider said:


> Load Optimized Defaults> Save and Exit.
> Boot into Windows.
> Shutdown.
> Then go into bios and key in all your settings from scratch. See if that works.


now it hangs in tm5 bsod kmode exception. ill try swapping dimms in slots again..


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> to point #1, find stable OC with mrc fastboot disabled?





dante`afk said:


> to point #1, find stable OC with mrc fastboot disabled?


Correct


----------



## the_ignite

Hello. Is there any reason to buy G.Skill F5-6000U36 over U40? U40 is cheaper, but is 6000U36 better or it's just an XMP 3.0 profile for extra money?

P.S. or I can just buy 5600U36 and overclock it to ~6200?


----------



## Avacado

the_ignite said:


> I can just buy 5600U36 and overclock it to ~6200?


GL with that.


----------



## the_ignite

Okay. I have bad Micron Fury Beast 5200, that runs at 5400 40-40-40-80 with errors. So 5200 36 is stable. Now there's a possibility to buy GSkill (Samsung). My mobo is Aorus Master. I want stable 6200/6400 with good timings. Do you recommend staying on Fury Beast until better RAM's released or buy GSkill now?


----------



## Carillo

the_ignite said:


> Okay. I have bad Micron Fury Beast 5200, that runs at 5400 40-40-40-80 with errors. So 5200 36 is stable. Now there's a possibility to buy GSkill (Samsung). My mobo is Aorus Master. I want stable 6200/6400 with good timings. Do you recommend staying on Fury Beast until better RAM's released or buy GSkill now?


Did you say stable ? Try DDR4


----------



## the_ignite

Any real advices? I am here not for clown show.


----------



## Falkentyne

the_ignite said:


> Any real advices? I am here not for clown show.


----------



## Forsaken1

the_ignite said:


> Okay. I have bad Micron Fury Beast 5200, that runs at 5400 40-40-40-80 with errors. So 5200 36 is stable. Now there's a possibility to buy GSkill (Samsung). My mobo is Aorus Master. I want stable 6200/6400 with good timings. Do you recommend staying on Fury Beast until better RAM's released or buy GSkill now?


Z690 is a chit show with memory.If you do not like headaches.Micron is about as stable as it comes.
Average person.I would hold with micron and wait for a possible resolution down the road.

If you like to tinker and don’t mind headaches.Go with Samsung.Better yet Hynix .


----------



## the_ignite

Forsaken1 said:


> Z690 is a chit show with memory.If you do not like headaches.Micron is about as stable as it comes.
> Average person.I would hold with micron and wait for a possible resolution down the road.
> 
> If you like to tinker and don’t mind headaches.Go with Samsung.Better yet Hynix .


Thank you very much.


----------



## Avacado

the_ignite said:


> Thank you very much.


What is with you new people stealing avatars?


----------



## the_ignite

Avacado said:


> What is with you new people stealing avatars?


You overclocked your ego very well.


----------



## Falkentyne

the_ignite said:


> You overclocked your ego very well.


and...blocked.


----------



## Avacado

munternet said:


> How is 64GB going on the Apex?
> Or any board for that matter
> Waiting for my Apex and Dell 64GB to arrive and tossing up whether to wait for the 12900KS if it's coming?
> Maybe I'll get a 12900K now and swap it later depending on the lottery


So far 64GB VERY unstable. Added the new sticks and failed to boot at XMP. 3 cycles and system booted into BIOS safe mode. Manually set timings to 5600, rest auto and multiple BSODs. Set BIOS to "Auto" to see what the board would default to. As you can see in the picture, it defaults on auto with 4 sticks (64GB) to DDR5 4000. Pretty ****ty. Of course I suspect i'll be able to tune this, but not looking good for the home team.


----------



## opt33

My Samsung has been rock stable at 6000-6200 with no retraining despite not using fastboot. For those having quirky issues with Samsung, I cant figure out if its mobo/bios difference or because I am using less aggressive settings, 1-2x jedec trefi, and not going over 6200 for 24/7. Carrillo will have first apples to apples comparison.


----------



## Forsaken1

opt33 said:


> My Samsung has been rock stable at 6000-6200 with no retraining despite not using fastboot. For those having quirky issues with Samsung, I cant figure out if its mobo/bios difference or because I am using less aggressive settings, 1-2x jedec trefi, and not going over 6200 for 24/7. Carrillo will have first apples to apples comparison.


Your running slow.Like turtle slow.Crank it up then the fun begins.


----------



## orbitech

Some ppl can't even run their XMP 6k profiles while others complain they can't run at 400-1000 MTs more with tight timings w/o issues.. without long run sufficient feedback about safe voltages (just everyone's hupotheses),w/o taking into account what the average Alderlake IMC can do and take advantage of realistically, it's entertaining to see the bigger picture between the two opposing sides.. 
I mean even in here which is an oc forum that pushes to extremes, sometimes I'm left speechless by some ppl posts /sigh

I mean saying 6200/6400 are slow especially with tight timings.. dunno.. either age, brains or deep pockets lol


----------



## HiLuckyB

I have a set of micron 5200 CL38-38-38 that is unstable with XMP, And will only work if you set the timing's to 38-39-39  
I was finally able to get 1 kit of Teamgroup Delta RGB 6400 CL40 Hynix, And it runs no problem with XMP.
The joys of early tech adoption


----------



## munternet

Avacado said:


> So far 64GB VERY unstable. Added the new sticks and failed to boot at XMP. 3 cycles and system booted into BIOS safe mode. Manually set timings to 5600, rest auto and multiple BSODs. Set BIOS to "Auto" to see what the board would default to. As you can see in the picture, it defaults on auto with 4 sticks (64GB) to DDR5 4000. Pretty ****ty. Of course I suspect i'll be able to tune this, but not looking good for the home team.
> 
> View attachment 2541850


I'm sure there will be a eureka moment when you get the speed up a bit 
What hardware do you have? Have you tested the sticks individually for similarity?
I have Dell 4800 2x32GB coming


----------



## Forsaken1

orbitech said:


> Some ppl can't even run their XMP 6k profiles while others complain they can't run at 400-1000 MTs more with tight timings w/o issues.. without long run sufficient feedback about safe voltages (just everyone's hupotheses),w/o taking into account what the average Alderlake IMC can do and take advantage of realistically, it's entertaining to see the bigger picture between the two opposing sides..
> I mean even in here which is an oc forum that pushes to extremes, sometimes I'm left speechless by some ppl posts /sigh
> 
> I mean saying 6200/6400 are slow especially with tight timings.. dunno.. either age, brains or deep pockets lol


Deep pockets.
This is a average OC forum with a handful of xtreme participants.
6400 tight is goal on Samsung.You took liberty in adding from the original from 6000-6200 statement.
Unfortunately the OC community has shrunk next to zero.
Ba,that’s why xtreme guys do not post here often.To many noobs.
Whats left of the herd gathers here.


----------



## orbitech

I see. I remember the days when oc was not solely about deep pockets but about the joy of winning silicone lottery and then taking advantage of it.. with deep pockets it's a matter of time before you hit the 🎯.. to my eyes a guy with limited budget, knowledge and the attitude to help others is the best an enthusiast can achieve..
The oc community and the enthusiast community had shrunk mainly because of insane pricing and attitude nowadays. I asked something simple two times in the last week but noone took the liberty to help or participate ..i didn't mind, i didn't ask twice i just noticed.. that's what shrunk the community mainly.. it's easy to understand why we have come to this point.. anyway each to his own i guess no need to flood the topic with useless posts from my part.


----------



## Avacado

munternet said:


> I'm sure there will be a eureka moment when you get the speed up a bit
> What hardware do you have? Have you tested the sticks individually for similarity?
> I have Dell 4800 2x32GB coming


Have not tested the RMA kit individually yet, but will. 1st kit will run xmp + no problem.

Running asus prime. 12900kf


----------



## opt33

Forsaken1 said:


> Your running slow.Like turtle slow.Crank it up then the fun begins.


Point is Samsung 6200c32 is rock stable with 4K fps gains over my micron at 5400, so Samsung doesnt have to be a headache unless using unstable settings or possibly mobo/bios issues that I dont have. My Samsung at 6400+ is flaky and too small jump from 6200 for measureable improvement in 4k fps, so using 24/7 would add flakiness with no visible gain. 

When we get newer ram 7000+ with lower voltage that can be oced further, then Ill agree 5600/6000 samsung relatively sucks.


----------



## munternet

opt33 said:


> Point is Samsung 6200c32 is rock stable with 4K fps gains over my micron at 5400, so Samsung doesnt have to be a headache unless using unstable settings or possibly mobo/bios issues that I dont have. My Samsung at 6400+ is flaky and too small jump from 6200 for measureable improvement in 4k fps, so using 24/7 would add flakiness with no visible gain.
> 
> When we get newer ram 7000+ with lower voltage that can be oced further, then Ill agree 5600/6000 samsung relatively sucks.


I know what you're saying. I found lower ram speeds can make games feel snappier


----------



## sugi0lover

My freind with SP103 12900K, T-force 6000 CL38 kits~
6800Mhz CL30 1T is bootable!
[Edit : FYI, he has both Unify-X and Unify itx, both the same for ram oc]


----------



## sugi0lover

_d_


----------



## Forsaken1

sugi0lover said:


> _d_


I guess it’s acceptable if you like the D these days.😂


----------



## satinghostrider

opt33 said:


> Point is Samsung 6200c32 is rock stable with 4K fps gains over my micron at 5400, so Samsung doesnt have to be a headache unless using unstable settings or possibly mobo/bios issues that I dont have. My Samsung at 6400+ is flaky and too small jump from 6200 for measureable improvement in 4k fps, so using 24/7 would add flakiness with no visible gain.
> 
> When we get newer ram 7000+ with lower voltage that can be oced further, then Ill agree 5600/6000 samsung relatively sucks.


From my experience based on 3 kits (6000c36,6000c40 and 5600c36), 5600c36 was the only one I could get stable 6200c36 1t. I feel the 6000 kits from G.skill has a huge variance on running the preset. You either can or you'll forever be unstable no matter how you tune them. My 6000c36 kit was the worst of the lot I've tested and the best kit was 5600c36 for me. I'm half my mind now to actually tear up my 5600c36 RGB kit and get them watercooled. Anyone of you guys actually bothered to watercool RGB rams? At 1.41V VDD 6200c32 1t, without a fan, games like Vanguard crash to desktop once it hits 45+. And that ram cooler is such an eyesore to my custom loop. With a ram cooler, I can go 4 hours non-stop gaming on Vanguard and temps are like 36 degrees tops.


----------



## centvalny

Apex bios 0046 and green hynix


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> My freind with SP103 12900K, T-force 6000 CL38 kits~
> 6800Mhz CL30 1T is bootable!
> [Edit : FYI, he has both Unify-X and Unify itx, both the same for ram oc]
> View attachment 2541867


Crazy! 😱


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello,
Might as well share my experience :









1.44 for all voltages on the UX, 1.3 SA. Ycruncher, OCCT, TM5, and Karhu 10+ hours stable. The dimm are aircooled by a 120mm fan and are around 48°C while doing Karhu.
6800 at those timings was close to pass but errored at the 5 hours mark on Karhu, probably lacking a bit of voltage, they were around 1.46v.
Haven't been lucky with 1T though, very hard to be as stable as this profile sadly


----------



## opt33

satinghostrider said:


> From my experience based on 3 kits (6000c36,6000c40 and 5600c36), 5600c36 was the only one I could get stable 6200c36 1t. I feel the 6000 kits from G.skill has a huge variance on running the preset. You either can or you'll forever be unstable no matter how you tune them. My 6000c36 kit was the worst of the lot I've tested and the best kit was 5600c36 for me. I'm half my mind now to actually tear up my 5600c36 RGB kit and get them watercooled. Anyone of you guys actually bothered to watercool RGB rams? At 1.41V VDD 6200c32 1t, without a fan, games like Vanguard crash to desktop once it hits 45+. And that ram cooler is such an eyesore to my custom loop. With a ram cooler, I can go 4 hours non-stop gaming on Vanguard and temps are like 36 degrees tops.


agreed, ram has always been no different then cpus in overclock lottery, have to find max stable of each kit.

My max stable is 6200c32 with 1.48vdd, and no temp dependent issues up to 50C (tm5 max temps). 

At 6400 I hit a soft wall, meaning with ram fan cranked I can run TM5 and memtest for a while without errors, but not really stable as will eventually crash games or cause other software errors even if temps not high, what I call flaky. I am sure 6400 would eventually error in memtest/tm5 if ran overnight, but no interest in trying at that voltage when I already know it isnt stable. 6600 is hard wall, regardless of settings/volts/timings, it spits errors in memtest/tm5.


----------



## satinghostrider

opt33 said:


> agreed, ram has always been no different then cpus in overclock lottery, have to find max stable of each kit.
> 
> My max stable is 6200c32 with 1.48vdd, and no temp dependent issues up to 50C (tm5 max temps).
> 
> At 6400 I hit a soft wall, meaning with ram fan cranked I can run TM5 and memtest for a while without errors, but not really stable as will eventually crash games or cause other software errors even if temps not high, what I call flaky. I am sure 6400 would eventually error in memtest/tm5 if ran overnight, but no interest in trying at that voltage when I already know it isnt stable. 6600 is hard wall, regardless of settings/volts/timings, it spits errors in memtest/tm5.


DDR5 is alot more temp sensitive you can get weird crashes if the sticks have PMS. It's unlike DDR4 really. I've contemplated to actually watercool these rams after spending a ton of time getting it fully stable. I'm finally able to game 3-4 hours with no crashes. It's come to a point I'm actually quite hesitant to go through this again with better rams right now. Perhaps just watercool them and it will run alot better and probably push for 6200C32 1T. Games are already plenty fast with this setup I'm really happy. Vanguard is such a dream to play with the 12900k and DDR5. Broke my personal best record for number of kills this evening as well with my trusty STG44. 😎


----------



## Nisa

Anyone use kingston 5600 KF556C40BBK2-32 ?
Is it overvoltage blocked like kingston 4800 value hynix?
Is 5600 a lottery?(hynix/samsung?)


----------



## Stockman

CMT32GX5M2X6200C36

I have this kit with 12900k and Unify-X. Corsair with Hynix chips.

I haven't yet found it on any MB manufacturer QVL.🤪

Anyway, XMP was plug-and-play for me. Wondering if any others here have this kit and have tried to OC.


----------



## Avacado

Best run on G.Skill Samsung for me. 64GB is completely untenable. Managed to boot into windows @ 6600 but BSOD with AIDA. UNcore was set to auto and ran @ 4700 for most of the run.


----------



## Carillo

Avacado said:


> Best run on G.Skill Samsung for me. 64GB is completely untenable. Managed to boot into windows @ 6600 but BSOD with AIDA. UNcore was set to auto and ran @ 4700 for most of the run.
> 
> View attachment 2541936


I would reduce speed and work a lot on subs(if this is your best with 6400) . You should see 50-55ns with 6000-6400 2t Samsung and 102K ish read, and 10K plus on both write and copy.


----------



## Xeq54

Any idea how 4x8 GB DDR5 sticks (half number of banks on each stick compared to 16gb stick) would run on Z690 has anybody tried that ?


----------



## AngryLobster

G.Skill 6000 CL36 kit. All I did was bump voltage to 1.35v, add frequency and reduce main timings a bit. I have a bit of stuff running in background and have seen it as low as 56.3ns. Not going to mess with it any further until bios gets ironed out since there are quite a few issues with Unify-X like adaptive voltage being ignored, motherboard LED's remaining on even when set off, etc.


----------



## IronAge

Nisa said:


> Anyone use kingston 5600 KF556C40BBK2-32 ?
> Is it overvoltage blocked like kingston 4800 value hynix?
> Is 5600 a lottery?(hynix/samsung?)


Should have Hynix, there is a Beta Bios 0053 for Apex which allows OV with non-OC Renesas PMIC, seen this on HWBOT:



Spoiler















Source: 



ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX | APEX 14


----------



## Carillo

Nisa said:


> Anyone use kingston 5600 KF556C40BBK2-32 ?
> Is it overvoltage blocked like kingston 4800 value hynix?
> Is 5600 a lottery?(hynix/samsung?)


My experience is that there is no guarantee for either Hynix or samsung. There are several examples where QVL lists and personal experiences do not match. For example, V-color 6000 and 6200, were first delivered with SK hynix, but now they come with Samsung. The Corsair Vengance 6000 was also shipped with Hynix first but now samsung. Adata XPG should also have Hynix according to QVL, but now uses Samsung. The fact is that the only manufacturer that can supply ICs right now is samsung. So if you buy a new 5600-6200 kit from a supplier at the time of writing, the chances of them having Samsung are great! The T-force Delta 6400 and Dell 4800 CL40 are one of the only kits guaranteed by Hynix. Good luck


----------



## stahlhart

Avacado said:


> Best run on G.Skill Samsung for me. 64GB is completely untenable. Managed to boot into windows @ 6600 but BSOD with AIDA. UNcore was set to auto and ran @ 4700 for most of the run.
> 
> View attachment 2541936


Untenable at what -- 64Gb in general, or 64Gb at > 6000?


----------



## Stockman

AngryLobster said:


> G.Skill 6000 CL36 kit. All I did was bump voltage to 1.35v, add frequency and reduce main timings a bit. I have a bit of stuff running in background and have seen it as low as 56.3ns. Not going to mess with it any further until bios gets ironed out since there are quite a few issues with Unify-X like adaptive voltage being ignored, motherboard LED's remaining on even when set off, etc.
> 
> View attachment 2541964


Have you tried the beta bios (A.21)? I haven't. Still on A.10 like you.

Question - why does AIDA64 report North Bridge 800mhz when uncore is 3600mhz in CPU-Z? Maybe I'm missing something, but those two fields match for me @ 4300mhz. I have all CPU OC settings on override/constant (i.e. not dynamic vcore or multiplier).


----------



## Dinnzy

Simp question, what’s the move if your running the second asus Samsung 6000 profile? Getting 58.6 ns on mentest and errors after 8 min on occt with voltage bumped to 1.45.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Russian POWER
7200mhz 








7000


----------



## ObviousCough

My (samsung) 5600CL36 Trident Z5 kit won't post in XMP. It will post if i raise the tCL to 40.











edit: using the "load raw mhz" profile for timings and leaving the voltage on auto, which defaults to 1.2 on just about everything, and i'm doing 6133.
running tm5 to validate the frequency stability.


----------



## Avacado

stahlhart said:


> Untenable at what -- 64Gb in general, or 64Gb at > 6000?


In general. XMP gave me a big FU. Defaulted to 4000. Most likely the board and young BIOS revision. You get what you get I suppose.


----------



## Carillo

Should overclock.net change name to "Won't boot XMP.net" ? or pc-support.net ?


----------



## ObviousCough

Carillo said:


> Should overclock.net change name to "Won't boot XMP.net" ? or pc-support.net ?


sister site: benchme1080p.net


----------



## Avacado

Carillo said:


> Should overclock.net change name to "Won't boot XMP.net" ? or pc-support.net ?


Thanks for your help and comments earlier in the thread. I suppose this comment was for me. Get yourself an ASUS z690-A with 64GB of G.Skill 5600 and do better. I never once actually asked for help, just posted results. But please, go ahead and insert your next burn.


----------



## Avacado

ObviousCough said:


> sister site: benchme1080p.net


I'll bench with you anytime. We have similar scores and both lead our teams on HWbot.






ExtremeHW @ HWBOT


Ranked 73 at HWBOT Team League




hwbot.org


----------



## Avacado

ObviousCough said:


> My (samsung) 5600CL36 Trident Z5 kit won't post in XMP. It will post if i raise the tCL to 40.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: using the "load raw mhz" profile for timings and leaving the voltage on auto, which defaults to 1.2 on just about everything, and i'm doing 6133.
> running tm5 to validate the frequency stability.


Completely feel your pain. Though those timings in the 6133 raw profile setting are really high. Sad part is you have an APEX. Which XMP profile are you trying to run? The kit doesn't like XMP1. You should be able to get to 6000 at or near XMP sub timings. Set it to XMP2 (Kit default settings), change frequency to 6000, bump voltage to 1.30. If it fails 1-2 re-trains, try relaxing timings to 38/38/38/76


----------



## ObviousCough

Avacado said:


> Set it to XMP2 (Kit default settings), change frequency to 6000, bump voltage to 1.30. If it fails 1-2 re-trains, try relaxing timings to 38/38/38/76


No go.


----------



## Arni90

Dinnzy said:


> Simp question, what’s the move if your running the second asus Samsung 6000 profile? Getting 58.6 ns on mentest and errors after 8 min on occt with voltage bumped to 1.45.


Set tREFI to auto, and tREFIx9 to 20


----------



## opt33

ObviousCough said:


> No go.


Have you tried 6000 36-36-36-72 (no xmp) with 1.35vdd/vddq, 1.16mc, sa stock 0.9 or 1.0, trfc 480, rest auto. if that fails try 1.37 vdd/vddq. If works, can either try setting primaries lower or manually set secondary/tertiary timings similar to mine below which required no extra voltage vs auto (on mine). Then can walk down further. If you cant boot 6000c36 with 1.37 on all auto, no xmp, then your ram isnt one of the better binned ones.

For 6200c32 auto settings Im stable with 1.35vdd/vddq, but need 1.48v for tighter timings with 52-53ns latency. So experimenting to see which timings I can walk down from auto without requiring additional voltage. So far settings below with 56ns latency required no additional voltage for 1 hour of tm5 stable vs auto settings, still 1.35v. Im sure trfc/trefi will raise voltage requirements as affect latency more, but will change those last. Still going to run with tighter latency, but want to learn which settings cost the most voltage vs latency. asrock bugged reading channel a1 on msi.


----------



## Avacado

opt33 said:


> Have you tried 6000 36-36-36-72 (no xmp) with 1.35vdd/vddq, 1.16mc, sa stock 0.9 or 1.0, trfc 480, rest auto. if that fails try 1.37 vdd/vddq. If works, can either try setting primaries lower or manually set secondary/tertiary timings similar to mine below which required no extra voltage vs auto (on mine). Then can walk down further. If you cant boot 6000c36 with 1.37 on all auto, no xmp, then your ram isnt one of the better binned ones.
> 
> For 6200c32 auto settings Im stable with 1.35vdd/vddq, but need 1.48v for tighter timings with 52-53ns latency. So experimenting to see which timings I can walk down from auto without requiring additional voltage. So far settings below with 56ns latency required no additional voltage for 1 hour of tm5 stable vs auto settings, still 1.35v. Im sure trfc/trefi will raise voltage requirements as affect latency more, but will change those last. Still going to run with tighter latency, but want to learn which settings cost the most voltage vs latency. asrock bugged reading channel a1 on msi.
> 
> View attachment 2542019


Fantastic reply.


----------



## Bilco

If anyone is still having trouble getting ddr5 I have some micron kingstons I will be returning to Newegg if no one wants them for what I paid for + shipping. PM if interested: KF552C40BBK2-32 5200mhz Kingston Ram


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> Set tREFI to auto, and tREFIx9 to 20


Auto is like tREFI 5000. Try 50 000 
@Dinnzy look at dimm temperature in hwinfo. ~60c will give errors


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> Should overclock.net change name to "Won't boot XMP.net" ? or pc-support.net ?


xmp is oc. 
should be renamed to "fixing dram vendors failure.net" or "fixing mobo vendors qvl failure.net".
or, "fixing intel imc sh it .net".


----------



## Esenel

Lord Alzov said:


> Russian POWER
> 7200mhz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7000


Yeah. That is nothing special though :-D









If it is stable, people will bow before you ;-)


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> Auto is like tREFI 5000. Try 50 000
> @Dinnzy look at dimm temperature in hwinfo. ~60c will give errors


A lot of people have trouble yeeting tREFI on Samsung DDR5, my 6000C36 sticks can't even do 20K. The typical tREFI issue is that primary timings seemingly work stable, and most benchmarks run without issue, but Karhu gives occasional errors after 5-20 minutes.


----------



## Carillo

Arni90 said:


> A lot of people have trouble yeeting tREFI on Samsung DDR5, my 6000C36 sticks can't even do 20K. The typical tREFI issue is that primary timings seemingly work stable, and most benchmarks run without issue, but Karhu gives occasional errors after 5-20 minutes.


Strange. No issues running 65535 with either of my sammy sticks.


----------



## lowmotion

Carillo said:


> Strange. No issues running 65535 with either of my sammy sticks.


Same here. Couldnt run 65535. Couldnt run CR1. Then suddenly it worked. But it is still not 100% stable.

tREFI stops working beyond ~30.000


----------



## ObviousCough

opt33 said:


> Have you tried 6000 36-36-36-72 (no xmp) with 1.35vdd/vddq, 1.16mc, sa stock 0.9 or 1.0, trfc 480, rest auto. if that fails try 1.37 vdd/vddq. If works, can either try setting primaries lower or manually set secondary/tertiary timings similar to mine below which required no extra voltage vs auto (on mine). Then can walk down further. If you cant boot 6000c36 with 1.37 on all auto, no xmp, then your ram isnt one of the better binned ones.
> 
> For 6200c32 auto settings Im stable with 1.35vdd/vddq, but need 1.48v for tighter timings with 52-53ns latency. So experimenting to see which timings I can walk down from auto without requiring additional voltage. So far settings below with 56ns latency required no additional voltage for 1 hour of tm5 stable vs auto settings, still 1.35v. Im sure trfc/trefi will raise voltage requirements as affect latency more, but will change those last. Still going to run with tighter latency, but want to learn which settings cost the most voltage vs latency. asrock bugged reading channel a1 on msi.
> 
> View attachment 2542019


6000?

i can't even get 5600 CL36 to post. No combination of voltages seem to matter


----------



## Forsaken1

QUOTE="ObviousCough, post: 28926474, member: 548519"]
6000?

i can't even get 5600 CL36 to post. No combination of voltages seem to matter
[/QUOTE]

At this point I would return or rma?


----------



## ObviousCough

Yea.

The only two possibilities are the Apex was a colossal waste of money, or my memory is trash that can't do XMP with any voltage.


----------



## affxct

ObviousCough said:


> 6000?
> 
> i can't even get 5600 CL36 to post. No combination of voltages seem to matter


I had a similar issue to yours. I ended up testing a second CPU and still couldn’t train XMP. In the weeks prior I determined that the ICs were somewhat okay because they could do 5600 40-40-40-40 @ 1.1V, but it seemed as though they hit a wall.

A few people I’ve come across now have had S16B kits that hit a wall at 5600C40. I also found that these types of ICs just don’t seem to scale with voltage at all. The behaviour on functional ICs is totally different.

My retailer also couldn’t boot XMP on their test setup so this one technician there facilitated a full credit for the kit and they sent me a kit of 6000C36s that I paid for with the credit I had. These ICs have been incredible and it turns out neither my board or IMC were to blame.


----------



## ObviousCough

So should I return them or try RMA lotto?


----------



## Forsaken1

I would return.Best set Samsung I have is 6000U4040E16x2.Maybe just the lottery.In windows at 6800 any typical CL you want.But errors.


----------



## ObviousCough

I don't want a store credit at newegg though


----------



## affxct

ObviousCough said:


> So should I return them or try RMA lotto?


I know it’s not an ideal answer. Trust me, I was distraught when I received my stuff. Due to how finicky my ICs were, the 0803 BIOS straight up wouldn’t allow me to use my PC at all. I would crash within seconds.

I initially sent my stuff in for testing and all that my retailer’s tech dude found was XMP didn’t seem to work. When I received my stuff back I tried 0811 and that worked wonders.

I also didn’t want to attempt an RMA but my retailer got a crap ton of Z5 kits and I decided to try my luck at testing my buddy’s 12600K when it rolled through on a whim as I picked it up for him. That was enough to mount a final argument with a second YT video as evidence, and I was lucky they had stock.

I honestly think that you’re experiencing the same stuff myself and others have with S16B and I really think it’s the only way you’re going to be happy with it in the long run. If you’re anything like me then this is probably pissing you off immensely. I myself was so frustrated seeing everyone do 6200-6600 without issue.


----------



## Avacado

affxct said:


> I know it’s not an ideal answer. Trust me, I was distraught when I received my stuff. Due to how finicky my ICs were, the 0803 BIOS straight up wouldn’t allow me to use my PC at all. I would crash within seconds.


This. 0804 was causing XMP instability. Update to 0811 a few days ago and it has been better.


----------



## ObviousCough

i tried 0811 first, then 0046, now 0021. BIOS doesn't seem to make a difference, i have two CPUs to test with also. It's rock solid at 5600CL40 and i may even be able to tighten down the subs.

I got my sticks in the newegg shuffle, if i return them i'll be given a store credit...which won't be used for buying another kit of ddr5 because it's not in stock on newegg, i'll have to go to amazon.

I have 27 days to return them. I'm heavily considering RMA first.



affxct said:


> If you’re anything like me then this is probably pissing you off immensely. I myself was so frustrated seeing everyone do 6200-6600 without issue.


The exact same thing happened to me with DDR4 also. My 12600k can't do better than 3600 unless i'm running single rank sticks. Meanwhile, there's people with the same board, DR sticks, and cpu doing 4200 in gear1


----------



## satinghostrider

I know a few people who had far better luck with the 5600C36 kits than the 6000C36 kits for some reason. My 6000C40 works perfectly fine for XMP as I've tested but I couldn't run the 6000C32 1T/2T preset at all. The ram seems to only work reliably on XMP. Even tightening slightly to 39 threw errors at any voltage I tried.

Switched to 5600C36 and suddenly everything was alot easier. 6000C32 1T preset was throwing errors but tweaking the voltages and running TestMem5 and gaming on Vanguard proved rock solid. I only had to further adjust my VDD/VDDQ to 1.405V from 1.4V and MC Voltage from 1.25V to 1.265V after 1 weird crash a few days back after 3 hours in Vanguard. I've since not crashed at all. My sticks are consistently around 37-38 degrees during gaming and around 48 degrees when doing TestMem5 1usmus config.

The Samsung ICs for sure have a big variance from kit to kit but I can only speak from using my Apex. I mean the same borked kit might work on other boards maybe it won't I'm not sure. But it doesn't make sense since I spent less than 1/3 the time to get this 5600C36 kit stable. The 6000C36 kit I had was a nightmare. For 4 days I was practically living in the BIOS trying to make things work but nothing worked out. Flashed 4 different BIOS and none worked. All I can say is that if your memory can XMP, it's a start. If you can't, there is something wrong with those sticks and I doubt any bios is gonna work as I've manually tried all I could to get them stable before. Remember you're paying for sticks to work at 6000C36 at 1.3V. If you have to even increase voltage for it to work, technically it's defective unless the board is giving less voltage to the DDR5 for some reason which I doubt would be the case. My CPU is only an SP84 btw.


----------



## affxct

ObviousCough said:


> i tried 0811 first, then 0046, now 0021. BIOS doesn't seem to make a difference, i have two CPUs to test with also. It's rock solid at 5600CL40 and i may even be able to tighten down the subs.
> 
> I got my sticks in the newegg shuffle, if i return them i'll be given a store credit...which won't be used for buying another kit of ddr5 because it's not in stock on newegg, i'll have to go to amazon.
> 
> I have 27 days to return them. I'm heavily considering RMA first.
> 
> 
> The exact same thing happened to me with DDR4 also. My 12600k can't do better than 3600 unless i'm running single rank sticks. Meanwhile, there's people with the same board, DR sticks, and cpu doing 4200 in gear1


You’re correct on the BIOS thing. However, some of the BIOSs are buggy as hell. They won’t change your IC’s behaviour with regards to training. Also - try 5600C40 @ 1.1V .

I would say RMA might be the best bet as you guys in NA and EU seem to be having a rough time with D5. South Africa has literally so much stock it’s stupid 🤣. This is a world first. For interest’s sake, your D4 board an Aorus?


----------



## affxct

satinghostrider said:


> I know a few people who had far better luck with the 5600C36 kits than the 6000C36 kits for some reason. My 6000C40 works perfectly fine for XMP as I've tested but I couldn't run the 6000C32 1T/2T preset at all. The ram seems to only work reliably on XMP. Even tightening slightly to 39 threw errors at any voltage I tried.
> 
> Switched to 5600C36 and suddenly everything was alot easier. 6000C32 1T preset was throwing errors but tweaking the voltages and running TestMem5 and gaming on Vanguard proved rock solid. I only had to further adjust my VDD/VDDQ to 1.405V from 1.4V and MC Voltage from 1.25V to 1.265V after 1 weird crash a few days back after 3 hours in Vanguard. I've since not crashed at all. My sticks are consistently around 37-38 degrees during gaming and around 48 degrees when doing TestMem5 1usmus config.
> 
> The Samsung ICs for sure have a big variance from kit to kit but I can only speak from using my Apex. I mean the same borked kit might work on other boards maybe it won't I'm not sure. But it doesn't make sense since I spent less than 1/3 the time to get this kit stable. The 6000C36 kit I had was a nightmare. For 4 days I was practically living in the BIOS trying to make things work but nothing worked out.


Thus far I’ve managed:
6000 32-34-34-56-2T 1.375 VDD/Q 1.15 SA
6133 34-34-34-56-2T 1.35 VDD/Q 1.125 SA
6133 32-34-34-56-2T 1.425 VDD/Q 1.125 SA
6200 36-36-36-56-2T 1.3 VDD/Q 1.15 SA

I used 1.25 VDD2 on all of them and I used pretty much identical sub-timings that just seem to work well (6, 4, 420-450, 32768-90000, 24, 12, 16, 4, tCL-2).

6400 34-36-36 requires some tweaking. The 6133C34 profile has tREFI 90K so the performance actually surpasses every other one and I’ve selected it as my daily. I passed between 400-1000% coverage on all of them and they’re all reboot stable (I’ve checked).

Not record-breaking, but somewhat respectable for 6-layer daisy chain and an SP 81 12900K.


----------



## ObviousCough

affxct said:


> For interest’s sake, your D4 board an Aorus?


My first one is the Z690i Aorus Ultra, 10 layer PCB with 2 memory slots, it should be the ultimate DDR4 board. But even 3600 wasn't stable on it. I haven't tried the latest F5 bios yet.

The board i put the most effort and time into is the MSI PRO Z690-A









i can get 64GB running 3600cl14 pretty easily in it, but 32GB in any configuration won't do 3800 or 4000. But that was with the 12600k, i haven't tried the 12700k yet.


----------



## affxct

satinghostrider said:


> I know a few people who had far better luck with the 5600C36 kits than the 6000C36 kits for some reason. My 6000C40 works perfectly fine for XMP as I've tested but I couldn't run the 6000C32 1T/2T preset at all. The ram seems to only work reliably on XMP. Even tightening slightly to 39 threw errors at any voltage I tried.
> 
> Switched to 5600C36 and suddenly everything was alot easier. 6000C32 1T preset was throwing errors but tweaking the voltages and running TestMem5 and gaming on Vanguard proved rock solid. I only had to further adjust my VDD/VDDQ to 1.405V from 1.4V and MC Voltage from 1.25V to 1.265V after 1 weird crash a few days back after 3 hours in Vanguard. I've since not crashed at all. My sticks are consistently around 37-38 degrees during gaming and around 48 degrees when doing TestMem5 1usmus config.
> 
> The Samsung ICs for sure have a big variance from kit to kit but I can only speak from using my Apex. I mean the same borked kit might work on other boards maybe it won't I'm not sure. But it doesn't make sense since I spent less than 1/3 the time to get this 5600C36 kit stable. The 6000C36 kit I had was a nightmare. For 4 days I was practically living in the BIOS trying to make things work but nothing worked out. Flashed 4 different BIOS and none worked. All I can say is that if your memory can XMP, it's a start. If you can't, there is something wrong with those sticks and I doubt any bios is gonna work as I've manually tried all I could to get them stable before. My CPU is only an SP84.


It’s super weird ye. My 5600C36 was the nightmare and this 6000C36 kit is like my best friend. Can’t understand it or why this has been happening with S16B.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> Thus far I’ve managed:
> 6000 32-34-34-56-2T 1.375 VDD/Q 1.15 SA
> 6133 34-34-34-56-2T 1.35 VDD/Q 1.125 SA
> 6133 32-34-34-56-2T 1.425 VDD/Q 1.125 SA
> 6200 36-36-36-56-2T 1.3 VDD/Q 1.15 SA
> 
> I used 1.25 VDD2 on all of them and I used pretty much identical sub-timings that just seem to work well (6, 4, 420-450, 32768-90000, 24, 12, 16, 4, tCL-2).
> 
> 6400 34-36-36 requires some tweaking. The 6133C34 profile has tREFI 90K so the performance actually surpasses every other one and I’ve selected it as my daily. I passed between 400-1000% coverage on all of them and they’re all reboot stable (I’ve checked).
> 
> Not record-breaking, but somewhat respectable for 6-layer daisy chain and an SP 81 12900K.


Aida64? Looks nice


----------



## satinghostrider

affxct said:


> It’s super weird ye. My 5600C36 was the nightmare and this 6000C36 kit is like my best friend. Can’t understand it or why this has been happening with S16B.


Yeah it's weird as heck. I mean I really don't know the S16B seems to have a big variance in those models and I kinda doubt the better ICs are going into the 6000 kits and the lesser capable ICs going into the 5600 kits. Looks like everything is just mixed and it's like drawing straws. Truth be told, I'm even scared to try another Gskill kit with 6000 or 5600 for that matter as I'm looking for a non-RGB one so I can watercool these suckers. I'm just contented now I can finally game without all this headache so I'm gonna just leave it as it is right now. At one point, TestMem5 was something I was very very afraid of to run. Today it's my best friend. 😂😂😂


----------



## ObviousCough

I'm an hour into TM5 extreme at XMP II CL40


----------



## satinghostrider

ObviousCough said:


> I'm an hour into TM5 extreme at XMP II CL40


May the force be with you mate.


----------



## ObviousCough




----------



## Gadfly

Anyone know where I can buy some of those Dell DDR5 kits?


----------



## Carillo

Gadfly said:


> Anyone know where I can buy some of those Dell DDR5 kits?


A couple left on EBay. Dell is sold out, and when they get in supplies it might be micron IC’s according to sales rep in Dell Norway.


----------



## asdkj1740

ObviousCough said:


> My first one is the Z690i Aorus Ultra, 10 layer PCB with 2 memory slots, it should be the ultimate DDR4 board. But even 3600 wasn't stable on it. I haven't tried the latest F5 bios yet.
> 
> The board i put the most effort and time into is the MSI PRO Z690-A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i can get 64GB running 3600cl14 pretty easily in it, but 32GB in any configuration won't do 3800 or 4000. But that was with the 12600k, i haven't tried the 12700k yet.


it seems gigabyte itx mobos are not for ram oc.


----------



## affxct

ObviousCough said:


> My first one is the Z690i Aorus Ultra, 10 layer PCB with 2 memory slots, it should be the ultimate DDR4 board. But even 3600 wasn't stable on it. I haven't tried the latest F5 bios yet.
> 
> The board i put the most effort and time into is the MSI PRO Z690-A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i can get 64GB running 3600cl14 pretty easily in it, but 32GB in any configuration won't do 3800 or 4000.


I kinda knew it haha.


ObviousCough said:


> My first one is the Z690i Aorus Ultra, 10 layer PCB with 2 memory slots, it should be the ultimate DDR4 board. But even 3600 wasn't stable on it. I haven't tried the latest F5 bios yet.
> 
> The board i put the most effort and time into is the MSI PRO Z690-A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i can get 64GB running 3600cl14 pretty easily in it, but 32GB in any configuration won't do 3800 or 4000. But that was with the 12600k, i haven't tried the 12700k yet.


Sorry for the late reply. I actually asked you because I knew what your answer would be. It’s rather difficult to get any configuration faster than 3600Mbps to work on Gigabyte D4 boards. I’m not totally sure how much they’ve improved it thus far. Buildzoid had a video in which he kinda deciphered it. I think it may be more a function of you trying to do above 3600 and not as much that it’s about the ranks or density. I do think that less ranks would be easier, but as of right now I’d say stick to Asus and MSI for D4 unless you’re planning to do a conservative daily profile.


----------



## affxct

satinghostrider said:


> Yeah it's weird as heck. I mean I really don't know the S16B seems to have a big variance in those models and I kinda doubt the better ICs are going into the 6000 kits and the lesser capable ICs going into the 5600 kits. Looks like everything is just mixed and it's like drawing straws. Truth be told, I'm even scared to try another Gskill kit with 6000 or 5600 for that matter as I'm looking for a non-RGB one so I can watercool these suckers. I'm just contented now I can finally game without all this headache so I'm gonna just leave it as it is right now. At one point, TestMem5 was something I was very very afraid of to run. Today it's my best friend. 😂😂😂


I’ve become that way with IBT V2. Generally what I’ll do is 10 runs at Very High, reboot, then 10 again. If that passes I attempt HCI. If HCI passes I’ll save the profile in BIOS. I’ll then do a final test on IBT V2 again and then benchmark it. Then I’ll sometimes do IBT V2 at odd intervals just to make sure my IMC hasn’t magically destabilised.

I’ve seen the weirdest things thus far on D5. tREFI 32768 works fine on 6133C32, but booting up 90K and 120K destabilised my IMC. 90K on the more conservative 6133C34 worked totally fine though and didn’t compromise the IMC at all. I’ve devised a theory. I think that if your OC is IMC-unstable until you increase tRCD and tRP above tCAS (specific to S16B), you’re pretty much guaranteed that your OC is barely stable. If you can nail a flat configuration like 34-34-34 and it be stable, it’s very stable.

There are probably a lot of OC’ers who will look at what I just typed and have their jaws drop or just start dying laughing. Just my theory based on my testing though. The two weeks I had to spend with my broken S16B kit taught me a lot of the nuances with this platform and my further testing with this new kit has taught me even more. Things like how 6200 requires 1.15V or 1.35V SA. Both work, nothing in between works, and nothing below 1.15 or above 1.35V works. Quite remarkable stuff

Let me not even get started with 6400 34-36-36. Literally nothing except 1.2V SA can even attempt to be stable, and I finally stabilised the IMC when I decreased VDD and VDDQ. And to top it all off, it error’d in HCI and it turned out the IMC actually had destabilised again. Going to possibly wrestle with that, or more likely settle for 36 flat.

I also managed to train 6600 36-36-36 at 1.5V once. 6-layer daisy so kinda insane. I’m gonna attempt 38-38-38 I think but haven’t yet. I don’t think this board will do above 6600 though. Might try 6666 38-38-38.


----------



## matherror

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's result with Gskill 6000c36 samsung module.
> View attachment 2537598
> 
> 
> [edit] high resolution pic replaced
> View attachment 2537946


Which voltage settings you have and this is 7/24 stable ?


----------



## Carillo

matherror said:


> Which voltage settings you have and this is 7/24 stable ?


Around 1,44 VDD/Q


----------



## affxct

matherror said:


> Which voltage settings you have and this is 7/24 stable ?


This is perfectly doable. I have a 6133 32-34-34. Might be a good idea to loosen up my tRCD and tRP and push for higher freq tbh.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Samsung 5600 CL36 [email protected] Trying to lower cas from 36 to 34 and ran Karhu for hours. Feeling pleased with my efforts I stopped the test and that's where I got windows freeze. Did the same when I ran the test for only 30 mins to an hour. Temps stayed under 53c even on the long run.
I know some others here have had similar issues. Is this likely a timing thing or a voltage imbalance?
Could someone push me in the right direction and I'll go and work it out. So far tried lowering tREFI and raised tRFC.







This is my 24/7 settings
SA 0.9 MC 2.8


----------



## CptSpig

DanGleeballs said:


> Samsung 5600 CL36 [email protected] Trying to lower cas from 36 to 34 and ran Karhu for hours. Feeling pleased with my efforts I stopped the test and that's where I got windows freeze. Did the same when I ran the test for only 30 mins to an hour. Temps stayed under 53c even on the long run.
> I know some others here have had similar issues. Is this likely a timing thing or a voltage imbalance?
> Could someone push me in the right direction and I'll go and work it out. So far tried lowering tREFI and raised tRFC.
> View attachment 2542119
> 
> This is my 24/7 settings
> SA 0.9 MC 2.8


This is my 24/7 OC for the G.Skill 32Gb CL36 Samsung kit @ 1.435v. 100% no Errors with Memtest86. See attached.


----------



## munternet

DanGleeballs said:


> Samsung 5600 CL36 [email protected] Trying to lower cas from 36 to 34 and ran Karhu for hours. Feeling pleased with my efforts I stopped the test and that's where I got windows freeze. Did the same when I ran the test for only 30 mins to an hour. Temps stayed under 53c even on the long run.
> I know some others here have had similar issues. Is this likely a timing thing or a voltage imbalance?
> Could someone push me in the right direction and I'll go and work it out. So far tried lowering tREFI and raised tRFC.
> View attachment 2542119
> 
> This is my 24/7 settings
> SA 0.9 MC 2.8


With DDR4 a windows freeze was often caused by too low on the vccio. Not sure what the equivelent is here


----------



## munternet

Do the green 16GB 4800 Dell sticks work OK with no heatsink with just a fan blowing on them for mild overclock?


----------



## nickolp1974

munternet said:


> Do the green 16GB 4800 Dell sticks work OK with no heatsink with just a fan blowing on them for mild overclock?


i dont use a fan, no heatsink and still manage 6400c28, not done a full stability test though. in case 3 fans sucking in at bottom to exhaust 3 out at top so there will be some airflow just not direct


----------



## DanGleeballs

CptSpig said:


> This is my 24/7 OC for the G.Skill 32Gb CL36 Samsung kit @ 1.435v. 100% no Errors with Memtest86. See attached.


Thanks. Think I'm getting there now. Sticking to 1.35v for now. Kind of wish I had gone for a 2 slot board, something to aim at though.


munternet said:


> With DDR4 a windows freeze was often caused by too low on the vccio. Not sure what the equivelent is here


Yes. So next I went to give SA a bit more juice after reading a post by @affxct where they said about only a couple of SA combinations worked for them.
A bit more testing to get that dialled in and I can hopefully put other timings back.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Gadfly said:


> Anyone know where I can buy some of those Dell DDR5 kits?


Try reddit. Just bought 2x16 for only $345 shipped. Meanwhile I paid $1500 for t-force 6400c40 on ebay.


----------



## nickolp1974

duplicate post


----------



## Martin778

Can we please have a more uniform BIOS version naming? Just a polite question.
Apex was going through 002x, then 0046 and the last mentioned is 9901  I'm losing track on which is which and I always flash the newest one hoping I'll get my AI OC back...


----------



## satinghostrider

affxct said:


> I’ve become that way with IBT V2. Generally what I’ll do is 10 runs at Very High, reboot, then 10 again. If that passes I attempt HCI. If HCI passes I’ll save the profile in BIOS. I’ll then do a final test on IBT V2 again and then benchmark it. Then I’ll sometimes do IBT V2 at odd intervals just to make sure my IMC hasn’t magically destabilised.
> 
> I’ve seen the weirdest things thus far on D5. tREFI 32768 works fine on 6133C32, but booting up 90K and 120K destabilised my IMC. 90K on the more conservative 6133C34 worked totally fine though and didn’t compromise the IMC at all. I’ve devised a theory. I think that if your OC is IMC-unstable until you increase tRCD and tRP above tCAS (specific to S16B), you’re pretty much guaranteed that your OC is barely stable. If you can nail a flat configuration like 34-34-34 and it be stable, it’s very stable.
> 
> There are probably a lot of OC’ers who will look at what I just typed and have their jaws drop or just start dying laughing. Just my theory based on my testing though. The two weeks I had to spend with my broken S16B kit taught me a lot of the nuances with this platform and my further testing with this new kit has taught me even more. Things like how 6200 requires 1.15V or 1.35V SA. Both work, nothing in between works, and nothing below 1.15 or above 1.35V works. Quite remarkable stuff
> 
> Let me not even get started with 6400 34-36-36. Literally nothing except 1.2V SA can even attempt to be stable, and I finally stabilised the IMC when I decreased VDD and VDDQ. And to top it all off, it error’d in HCI and it turned out the IMC actually had destabilised again. Going to possibly wrestle with that, or more likely settle for 36 flat.
> 
> I also managed to train 6600 36-36-36 at 1.5V once. 6-layer daisy so kinda insane. I’m gonna attempt 38-38-38 I think but haven’t yet. I don’t think this board will do above 6600 though. Might try 6666 38-38-38.


Lol I never even tried pushing higher than 6000. I think I can do 6200 but I think that will take some time to be stable. I've missed out on gaming cause of this ddr5 stuff crashing and all. Right now, all I wanna do is just play. But good going on pushing the rams.


----------



## sugi0lover

matherror said:


> Which voltage settings you have and this is 7/24 stable ?


He changed the ram from Gskill 6000 CL36 to T-Force 6400 CL40.
The OC result below with Gskill 6000 CL36 kit & Z690 Hero was the last stable setup he had used for a while.

OC : 6200-30-35-35-52 2t
Voltage : vdd 1.5v, mc/sa 1.25v


----------



## j o e

what manufactures have Hynix chips now? I’m using Corsair 5200 micron and I can only get it to 5400


----------



## matique

Working on the next profile. I think with a bit of tweaking I could make 6600c34 1T stable and used as daily. Just gotta slowly work through some things. These are on base 5600c36 Samsung.


----------



## Spock-_-

CptSpig said:


> This is my 24/7 OC for the G.Skill 32Gb CL36 Samsung kit @ 1.435v. 100% no Errors with Memtest86. See attached.



I made an account just to say thanks for this. I was able to replicate your exact timings and everything with my own Samsung kit and it's rock solid. I appreciate it so much!


----------



## bastian

Testing a 2x16gb Corsair Dom Plat RGB 5600 36-36-36-76 kit 1.25v. Samsung!

Did a quick boost to 6000 36-36-36-76-1T 1.35v and stable. I'm not much of a memory OC, but can anyone suggest what I should try for now... more frequency? I noticed Corsair has a 6400 C38 kit, which I assume is Samsung too, so there should be quite a bit more room


----------



## dante`afk

@Carillo hows the unify-x doing


----------



## jomama22

bastian said:


> Testing a 2x16gb Corsair Dom Plat RGB 5600 36-36-36-76 kit 1.25v. Samsung!
> 
> Did a quick boost to 6000 36-36-36-76-1T 1.35v and stable. I'm not much of a memory OC, but can anyone suggest what I should try for now... more frequency? I noticed Corsair has a 6400 C38 kit, which I assume is Samsung too, so there should be quite a bit more room


The Corsair kits that are 6200+ are hynix.


----------



## centvalny

Apex bios 0046 and Hynix green strips @ 7000c30 tight subs


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Apex bios 0042 and Hynix green strips @ 7000c30 tight subs
> 
> View attachment 2542178


Nice, where can this bios be downloaded please??


----------



## centvalny

Sorry for typo, it is 0046


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Sorry for typo, it is 0046


oh thanks, got that one. Like another poster im losing track of all the different revisions.


----------



## nickolp1974

all i could muster on 9901, had issues though. Could only do 1 bench run then cpu would downclock to 5.2ghz everytime.


----------



## Carillo

nickolp1974 said:


> Nice, where can this bios be downloaded please??











ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0046.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> @Carillo hows the unify-x doing


Still unboxed... Got it today, the post service was 4 days late as usual


----------



## Martin778

Ohh it will be juicy when all OEM prebuilts hit the market, folks will be scavenging them for bare hynix DDR5's sticks


----------



## Nizzen

Martin778 said:


> Ohh it will be juicy when all OEM prebuilts hit the market, folks will be scavenging them for bare hynix DDR5's sticks


And people realize every stick is micron 🤣


----------



## Carillo

Martin778 said:


> Ohh it will be juicy when all OEM prebuilts hit the market, folks will be scavenging them for bare hynix DDR5's sticks


Well, there are still Dell Hynix available on Ebay, and no one seems to care.. I have bought so many kits I have trouble sleeping at night


----------



## ivans89

Carillo said:


> Still unboxed... Got it today, the post service was 4 days late as usual


i have the unify x inside rn, and it’s seems it’s not possible to go over 1.435vdimm on dell?You know something about this?


----------



## Carillo

ivans89 said:


> i have the unify x inside rn, and it’s seems it’s not possible to go over 1.435vdimm on dell?You know something about this?


This confirms what @sugi0lover told me about his friend having the same problem. Only OC-pmic supported for MSI boards. Only Asus and Gigabyte can do this currently as far as I know.


Edit: have you tried beta bios : MSI Global English Forum


----------



## ivans89

Carillo said:


> This confirms what @sugi0lover told me about his friend having the same problem. Only OC-pmic supported for MSI boards. Only Asus and Gigabyte can do this currently as far as I know.


ok this is pretty ****. Can take it out and send back…


----------



## nickolp1974

Carillo said:


> Well, there are still Dell Hynix available on Ebay, and no one seems to care.. I have bought so many kits I have trouble sleeping at night


still sticks at Dell UK, 7 days wait now though


----------



## centvalny

Green hynix strips memtest @ 6400c40 xmp of the other 6400 kit


----------



## schuldig

Carillo said:


> This confirms what @sugi0lover told me about his friend having the same problem. Only OC-pmic supported for MSI boards. Only Asus and Gigabyte can do this currently as far as I know.
> 
> 
> Edit: have you tried beta bios : MSI Global English Forum


how restrictive is that limitation when people are OCing on air? I was looking forward to the results on the Unify X and considering one but am now unsure after your comment.


----------



## LionS7

Guys, is it safe to presume that this kit (5600, CL40, 1.25V, KF556C40BBK2-32, SK Hynix M) can do at least 6000 ? Did somebody try these Kingston models ?


----------



## bigfootnz

This is what I managed with Z690 Hero, i9-12900KF SP89 and Kinston Beast Fury 6000C40 (Hynix) - 6200C30 VDD 1.5V, VDDQ 1.4V, MC 1.35V, SA auto (1.25V). CPU is 53-52-51, TVB+1 and E cores off, but this is only on test bench with 280mm AIO. Next week I'll replace my main rig 10900K, where I'll see true potential of this CPU with custom loop.


----------



## Carillo

schuldig said:


> how restrictive is that limitation when people are OCing on air? I was looking forward to the results on the Unify X and considering one but am now unsure after your comment.


My unify-x is still unboxed , but i have one Delta 6200 c38 and one Kingston 6000 c40 kit incoming in a couple of days. So I WILL test the board and report results here. Just a bummer that my DELL kits is limited on that board. So not sure what motherboard I’m going to end up with. But first up is DELL on APEX tomorrow


----------



## schuldig

Carillo said:


> My unify-x is still unboxed , but i have one Delta 6200 c38 and one Kingston 6000 c40 kit incoming in a couple of days. So I WILL test the board and report results here. Just a bummer that my DELL kits is limited on that board. So not sure what motherboard I’m going to end up with. But first up is DELL on APEX tomorrow


apologies if it's a vague question to ask but by estimation how limited would you consider those sticks to be? I skimmed through recent OC's and your last stable OC was @ 1,44 VDD/Q which wouldn't be too far off the 1.435 limit on the Unify which I would be okayish with. Hitting sub 50ns would be a dream on DDR5 in the first generation
I was planning on going for a DDR4 GSKILL 4000 14 Bdie paired with i9 ADL but after seeing those DDR5 results on Dell I'm tempted to go for the Unify-X paired with the Dells.

Or maybe it's best to wait for your results. Just worried the Dells might be sold out by then


----------



## Carillo

schuldig said:


> apologies if it's a vague question to ask but by estimation how limited would you consider those sticks to be? I skimmed through recent OC's and your last stable OC was @ 1,44 VDD/Q which wouldn't be too far off the 1.435 limit on the Unify which I would be okayish with. Hitting sub 50ns would be a dream on DDR5 in the first generation
> I was planning on going for a DDR4 GSKILL 4000 14 Bdie paired with i9 ADL but after seeing those DDR5 results on Dell I'm tempted to go for the Unify-X paired with the Dells.
> 
> Or maybe it's best to wait for your results. Just worried the Dells might be sold out by then


This is the best my Kingston value could do witch have the same Pmic limitation on water.. I have seen better results from others with Dell on same voltage 1,41-1,435. On air , I would guess 6200 c30 1T is possible maby 6400 with good bin. Sub 50 is absolutely possible


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Do we really have to disable e core to get sub 50ns latency? I have t-force 6400 and runs at 6400 c30 1t but have 54ns latency and it does not pass tm5.


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Do we really have to disable e core to get sub 50ns latency? I have t-force 6400 and runs at 6400 c30 1t but have 54ns latency and it does not pass tm5.


No. That post you refered to of my 6400/28/1t in your message has an Aida using ecores enabled (think it was like 49.3 or somthing). Ring was set at 4400 (stable for me with ecores enabled), though maybe it was stock, dunno, it's in that post.

If I disable ecores and set to 5000 ring, I now get 48ns flat.


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Do we really have to disable e core to get sub 50ns latency? I have t-force 6400 and runs at 6400 c30 1t but have 54ns latency and it does not pass tm5.


Stripping windows for bloatware is a few ns. disable e-cores and 50 ring/cache is a few ns...
I'm getting 52ns with 6000c32 that way....


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

my latency is so ****ty. What is going on? Using Carilo setting and get some time with tm5 without error. Even in safe mode, latency is still 54.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Carillo said:


> Anyone know a store some place in the world that have HMCG78MEBUA081N or HMCG88MEBUA081N in stock ?


They state that they have them available....Check it out








HMCG78MEBUA081N - Hynix 16GB DDR5-4800MHz PC5-38400 ECC Unbuffered CL40 288-Pin UDIMM 1.1V Single Rank Memory Module


Hynix HMCG78MEBUA081N 16GB DDR5-4800MHz PC5-38400 ECC Unbuffered CL40 288-Pin UDIMM 1.1V Single Rank Memory Module




harddiskdirect.com


----------



## dante`afk

Thanh Nguyen said:


> my latency is so ****ty. What is going on? Using Carilo setting and get some time with tm5 without error. Even in safe mode, latency is still 54.
> View attachment 2542298


bro its 6ms, who cares? there's no difference between 48 or 54,

just e-dick for the forum picture.


----------



## schuldig

dante`afk said:


> bro its 6ms, who cares? there's no difference between 48 or 54,
> 
> just e-dick for the forum picture.


not even... that's 6 nanoseconds or 0.000006 miliseconds 
that's like a nano e-dick for the forum picture!


----------



## centvalny

7200c32 with green hynix strips and Apex bios 0046


----------



## sugi0lover

DDR5 OC result by my friend.

M/B: MSI Z690 Unify-X Bios A.21
CPU: 12900K (SP103)
RAM: T-Force XMP 6000 CL38 (Hynix) 1.250v
He said that there are '1T' and 'real 1T' on bios, and his result is 'real 1T' option.


----------



## danielwoz

Since there is little 32GB dimm discussion here. This is really my first time proper tinkering at memory overclocking.

Bought the cheapest and only DDR5 I could find the naked crucial 4800:



  






The ram is stable for regular use @ 4800 but won't survive a mem test without reaching 48-50c and having errors. This seemed true in multiple later scenarios too, my ram will begin to error as soon as the spd temperature is reporting about 48c.

Added some heatsinks to the chips from a cheap rasberry pi kit on amazon, got some nicer copper ones coming from aliexpress.









Had to move one of the heatsinks becuase of the capcitor clearance issue.








This helped pass TestMem5 Extreme1 @anta777 at 4800, but only just. Had to add active cooling above the dimms. This might be ok for others with a different case, I have the thermaltake core p5. Initially I just used precariously placed 120mm noctua, but yesterday I got something a little more neat:



  







The asus 32G memory timing profiles (5200 && 5400) now both work / pass tests. No matter what I tried, theres no voltage/timings that I can get 5600 to make into Windows, super unstable, if it even posts.

So 5400 it is, best timings I can get are 5400-28-39-34-48:











Asus Hero Z690 - bios 811 - i9 12900k - 2 x 32G DDR5 Micron - Zotac 3090 trinity.
E-cores disabled for simplicity, not sure if it would work with them on.

Hope that helps someone.


----------



## Falkentyne

danielwoz said:


> Since there is little 32GB dimm discussion here. This is really my first time proper tinkering at memory overclocking.
> 
> Bought the cheapest and only DDR5 I could find the naked crucial 4800:
> 
> View attachment 2542349
> 
> 
> The ram is stable for regular use @ 4800 but won't survive a mem test without reaching 48-50c and having errors. This seemed true in multiple later scenarios too, my ram will begin to error as soon as the spd temperature is reporting about 48c.
> 
> Added some heatsinks to the chips from a cheap rasberry pi kit on amazon, got some nicer copper ones coming from aliexpress.
> View attachment 2542345
> 
> 
> Had to move one of the heatsinks becuase of the capcitor clearance issue.
> View attachment 2542347
> 
> 
> This helped pass TestMem5 Extreme1 @anta777 at 4800, but only just. Had to add active cooling above the dimms. This might be ok for others with a different case, I have the thermaltake core p5. Initially I just used precariously placed 120mm noctua, but yesterday I got something a little more neat:
> 
> View attachment 2542348
> 
> 
> 
> The asus 32G memory timing profiles (5200 && 5400) now both work / pass tests. No matter what I tried, theres no voltage/timings that I can get 5600 to make into Windows, super unstable, if it even posts.
> 
> So 5400 it is, best timings I can get are 5400-28-39-34-48:
> 
> View attachment 2542350
> 
> 
> 
> Asus Hero Z690 - bios 811 - i9 12900k - 2 x 32G DDR5 Micron - Zotac 3090 trinity.
> E-cores disabled for simplicity, not sure if it would work with them on.
> 
> Hope that helps someone.


You should get 5600 easily since you have plenty of voltage headroom (you're only at 1.25v/1.25v).
Your problem are your timings. You yeeted CAS way too low. Also your subs are a bit tight.
twrwr_sg at 17 will absolutely not work.

Try something like this, with 1.35v/1.40v vdd and vddq (async).


----------



## OliSydney

Hi everyone, I'm new to memory overclocking.
I've got 2 sticks of g.skill 6000mhz cl36.

Any recommendation on how to do a simple overclocking that does not require any fan / watercooling solution for the memory and that I can use 24/7? Getting 6200Mhz CL32 would be really sweet haha

Do you just use Mem TweakIt? There are so many variables it's really confusing :/


----------



## satinghostrider

OliSydney said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to memory overclocking.
> I've got 2 sticks of g.skill 6000mhz cl36.
> 
> Any recommendation on how to do a simple overclocking that does not require any fan / watercooling solution for the memory and that I can use 24/7? Getting 6200Mhz CL32 would be really sweet haha
> 
> Do you just use Mem TweakIt? There are so many variables it's really confusing :/


6000c32 itself needs a ram fan as at that frequency and timings you're already at 1.4ish. Games like Vanguard without a ram fan would crash to desktop the minute you're in the high 40s low 50s. I've tried it and that was in an AC room. The G.skills don't have a PMIC thermal pad that's the whole problem.


----------



## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> enabling xmp on these sticks is already xoc. so shut up and just use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 45~50c ??
> seriously ?
> the g.skill 6000mhz cl36 sticks run at 60c when xmp is enabled at 20c room temp.


Testmem5 past 60 spits errors without a fan. Vanguard consistently crashes once SPD hub temps goes high 40s low 50s. I don't know why maybe apex the rams sit next to each other and there is more heat buildup? Once there is ram fan, no more crashes. I'll try it again tonight just to confirm.


----------



## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> Testmem5 past 60 spits errors without a fan. Vanguard consistently crashes once SPD hub temps goes high 40s low 50s. I don't know why maybe apex the rams sit next to each other and there is more heat buildup? Once there is ram fan, no more crashes. I'll try it again tonight just to confirm.


gksill 6000c36 kit at xmp runs at 45~50c when playing bfv and bf2042, without active cooling. it would be crazy if there is a game simply cant take 50c or higher of the ram sticks.
you just give me a reason to play vanguard, thank you.


----------



## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> gksill 6000c36 kit at xmp runs at 45~50c when playing bfv and bf2042, without active cooling. it would be crazy if there is a game simply cant take 50c or higher of the ram sticks.
> you just give me a reason to play vanguard, thank you.


I'm not running XMP. I am running 6000C32 1T preset at 1.4V. XMP for sure no issues.


----------



## lolhaxz

asdkj1740 said:


> gksill 6000c36 kit at xmp runs at 45~50c when playing bfv and bf2042, without active cooling. it would be crazy if there is a game simply cant take 50c or higher of the ram sticks.
> you just give me a reason to play vanguard, thank you.


At stock mine appear to tolerate 70C and perhaps -2 CL (ie CL34) - have had them run for an hour or so at ~68C

65C SPD Hub temp running Karthu right now on a 4 dimm board (ie, gap between the modules) in a O11D XL with 9x rad push fans + 1 pull  - but no direct cooling on the ram. 1.35v

So yeah, stock they're probably A-OK, but if you push them - they're going to need some kind of airflow over them... 1.35v is hardly pushing them


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What do you think about these memories?

TEAMGROUP T-FORCE DELTA RGB SDRAM DDR5 32GB KIT 2x16GB 6400MHZ
FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01

Will easy run 6400 with a Maximus z690 Extreme?


----------



## asdkj1740

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think about these memories?
> 
> TEAMGROUP T-FORCE DELTA RGB SDRAM DDR5 32GB KIT 2x16GB 6400MHZ
> FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01
> 
> Will easy run 6400 with a Maximus z690 Extreme?











[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Ok, can't get stable 4.8GHz. Reverting to a crappy 4.4GHz and hope that it's stable at 4.4 at least. try this version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fj5ms2cy5ib66yw/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-EXTREME-ASUS-0067.rar?dl=0




www.overclock.net


----------



## Lord Alzov

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Do we really have to disable e core to get sub 50ns latency? I have t-force 6400 and runs at 6400 c30 1t but have 54ns latency and it does not pass tm5.


Check my screen i have 49.1ns with E core


----------



## yahfz

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think about these memories?
> 
> TEAMGROUP T-FORCE DELTA RGB SDRAM DDR5 32GB KIT 2x16GB 6400MHZ
> FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01
> 
> Will easy run 6400 with a Maximus z690 Extreme?


No. Had lots of issues even with an apex.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Wish me luck....


----------



## Simkin

Is the 6000CL36 kit with Samsung ic able to do xmp at 1.3v? Anyone had any luck? Im running mine at 1.34v now, seems stable but have not run any memtest yet.

Changing command rate from 2T to 1T, what benefits does it have?


----------



## asdkj1740

SuperMumrik said:


> Wish me luck....
> View attachment 2542404
> View attachment 2542405


how much for each 16g?


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> how much for each 16g?


If you have to ask….It’s not for you🔥


----------



## Whaler209

Simkin said:


> Is the 6000CL36 kit with Samsung ic able to do xmp at 1.3v? Anyone had any luck? Im running mine at 1.34v now, seems stable but have not run any memtest yet.
> 
> Changing command rate from 2T to 1T, what benefits does it have?


My Samsung 6000CL36 ran XMP at 1.3v right out of the box no issues. Overclocking it to any speed faster than 6000 is another matter, but I am extremely new to memory overclocking. Hoping for some good ASUS + Samsung 6000CL36 guides. So much to learn .....


----------



## dante`afk

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think about these memories?
> 
> TEAMGROUP T-FORCE DELTA RGB SDRAM DDR5 32GB KIT 2x16GB 6400MHZ
> FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01
> 
> Will easy run 6400 with a Maximus z690 Extreme?


xmp won't run, needs manual tuning;

essentially you could try to work with any sk hynix setting posted here


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Hey all, been having a hell of a time with some Dell Hynix sticks. I can get 6200 c36-36-36-76 1N to boot (can boot as lows as 30-35-35-40) but can't get them stable no matter what I do. I've tried all kinds of voltage combinations but I keep getting errors between 30-80% on Karhu (see my current system/settings below as well as link to CMO BIOS file with settings).

I haven't been able to identify a trend where I increase or decrease a voltage and it impacts the Karhu testing coverage. I think my CPU has a decent IMC as I was able to get Samsung stable at 6000c32 with lower voltages across the board. I get the same issues when I change RAM speed to 6400 2N 36-36-36-76. 

Any guidance or thoughts would be much appreciated.

System:

SP96 12900K
Apex (811 BIOS)
CPU overclock fully stable with P @ 5.2ghz all cores up to 5.5ghz 1-2 cores and E @4.2 ghz adaptive voltage with -0.045 offset
VDD, VDDQ @ 1.5v
SA at 1.2v
MC at 1.2v
CMO link


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> If you have to ask….It’s not for you🔥


i saw few 5600 / 6000 kits on newegg and amazon recently . i just wonder why no one gets them. the prices were not too off.


----------



## bastian

Whaler209 said:


> My Samsung 6000CL36 ran XMP at 1.3v right out of the box no issues. Overclocking it to any speed faster than 6000 is another matter, but I am extremely new to memory overclocking. Hoping for some good ASUS + Samsung 6000CL36 guides. So much to learn .....


My Corsair/Samsung 5600 kit I have at 6000 34-35-35-75-1T 1.35v. This seems to be easily obtainable from the Samsung chips.


----------



## jomama22

Forsaken1 said:


> If you have to ask….It’s not for you🔥


Dell and hynix greens are actually cheap now on eBay and from direct suppliers. Cheaper than anything Corsair is putting out on their website and cheaper than any gskill.

DDR5 demand is dwindling fast and scalpers have quickly realized the market is drying up. It was always going to as it's more or less a niche product and not at all necessary ATM


----------



## Thebc2

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think about these memories?
> 
> TEAMGROUP T-FORCE DELTA RGB SDRAM DDR5 32GB KIT 2x16GB 6400MHZ
> FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01
> 
> Will easy run 6400 with a Maximus z690 Extreme?


I am running them at XMP on my Apex but did have to bump the voltage a tad. They are now rock solid at 1.4. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Forsaken1

Past week local store average of 50 kits Ddr5 in stock daily.
Price still unrealistic.Sammy’s for $500+.
Anyone booting Sammy’s at 7000+ Benchable?


----------



## SuperMumrik

Not sure what to make of this! Same green Dell stick in Dimm B and A
600Mhz deficit is a LOT


----------



## Forsaken1

SuperMumrik said:


> Not sure what to make of this! Same green Dell stick in Dimm B and A
> 600Mhz deficit is a LOT
> 
> View attachment 2542430
> 
> View attachment 2542429


There’s ideas on other forums apex board revision 1.02?to solve this common issue.Just passing it along.


----------



## opt33

Simkin said:


> Is the 6000CL36 kit with Samsung ic able to do xmp at 1.3v? Anyone had any luck? Im running mine at 1.34v now, seems stable but have not run any memtest yet.
> 
> Changing command rate from 2T to 1T, what benefits does it have?


Having to run XMP at slightly higher volts is normal unless you happen to be on same mobo/bios as kit was tested on.

1T at 6000-6200 improves read/copy ~1000MB/s, write ~1500 MB/s and latency ~1-1.5ns over 2T...or 6000 1T roughly equivalent to 6070-6100 2T.


----------



## Avacado

Forsaken1 said:


> Anyone booting Sammy’s at 7000+ Benchable?


Thats a joke right?


----------



## Forsaken1

Avacado said:


> Thats a joke right?


Is avocado a fruit,vegetable or other?

No issue booting Sammy 6800 on tachyon.Not stable.Did not try.
Wondering if any other non asus boards can do this?
Is it connected to slot issue on Apex,poor bios or lottery?


----------



## Avacado

Forsaken1 said:


> Is avocado a fruit,vegetable or other?


Fruit. 


Forsaken1 said:


> Is it connected to slot issue on Apex,poor bios or lottery?


Probably all of the above.


----------



## Forsaken1

Picked my apex around launch.One of the first things I often do is bin sticks and slots.If I recall slots off 400 or so.Returned it.Figured it was a fluke.Past week or so several people reporting issues with slots/traces.

These could all be one off flukes or a issue.Fire up the slot test apex users.

Let’s see if it’s BS or not with the herd.


----------



## opt33

My Hero and Unify-x similar limits on my samsung 5600C36..... 
6200 max memtest stable overnight, 30+hrs gaming without issues.
6400 pass tm5/short memtest but always at least 3-5 errors on longer 3+ hours memtest runs, same errors on 6400 with loose settings.
6800 bsods easily with erratic (unstable) aida64 scores had 0 for latency on one 
7000 wont train/boot with volts up to 1.68v/1.4mc/1.4sa. 

Wish samsung would release their 7000 kit they teased in november, but who knows how long til mass produced, and then if gets by scalpers.


----------



## sblantipodi

Is there someone running Corsair Dominator RAM?
does it happen that LEDs animations stops and you need to restart iCue? if yes, is there a fix?


----------



## bastian

sblantipodi said:


> Is there someone running Corsair Dominator RAM?
> does it happen that LEDs animations stops and you need to restart iCue? if yes, is there a fix?


That usually means there is some instability.


----------



## asdkj1740

opt33 said:


> My Hero and Unify-x similar limits on my samsung 5600C36.....
> 6200 max memtest stable overnight, 30+hrs gaming without issues.
> 6400 pass tm5/short memtest but always at least 3-5 errors on longer 3+ hours memtest runs, same errors on 6400 with loose settings.
> 6800 bsods easily with erratic (unstable) aida64 scores had 0 for latency on one
> 7000 wont train/boot with volts up to 1.68v/1.4mc/1.4sa.
> 
> Wish samsung would release their 7000 kit they teased in november, but who knows how long til mass produced, and then if gets by scalpers.


some hynix 6400 kits are already out, but no samsung still. 
dram vendors are learning fast.


----------



## Spiriva

This is the G skill 6000mhz mem at 6200mhz


----------



## danielwoz

Falkentyne said:


> You should get 5600 easily since you have plenty of voltage headroom (you're only at 1.25v/1.25v).
> Your problem are your timings. You yeeted CAS way too low. Also your subs are a bit tight.
> twrwr_sg at 17 will absolutely not work.
> 
> Try something like this, with 1.35v/1.40v vdd and vddq (async).
> 
> View attachment 2542387


Sigh... Clearly you didn't read that I have 2x32GB dimms, half the timings on this sheet insta crash / no post... eg tWRWR_dr can't be lower than 16... Thanks for your useless input.


----------



## Simkin

Whats the deal with all this instablity issues using XMP profiles? Apex and 6000 CL36.

Would manually adjust the ram speed, timings and volts be better?


----------



## Falkentyne

danielwoz said:


> Sigh... Clearly you didn't read that I have 2x32GB dimms, half the timings on this sheet insta crash / no post... eg tWRWR_dr can't be lower than 16... Thanks for your useless input.


Oh you're quite welcome. Glad to help. I'll be available in the future if you need any more help. Take care of yourself and good luck overclocking.
Much Love <3. BTW want to be my friend? You're cute and awesome.


----------



## Stockman

Two elementary questions - however, I promise not to respond with a "sigh". 

I have the Corsair/Hynix 6200/C36 32GB kit, 12900k with Unify-x.

1) I'd like to improve upon 65.6ns latency, per AIDA64. Do I focus on frequency or timings? I realize "both" is obvious answer, but wondering if I should lean in one direction.

2) Many of the results posted here are very impressive. For the higher-end kits (as in XMP), do you guys start OC process with XMP enabled and then tweak? Or are you starting from scratch?

Thank you


----------



## mattxx88

working on my limping green kit



dunno why i cannot change TWRRD values without encountering training issues


----------



## yahfz

Fully stable and my current daily setup. Can't really make it stable over 6200 so this will do.


----------



## Spock-_-

My current best at the moment. I cannot get it to boot whatsoever at CR 1, so until further potential BIOS updates i'm stuck at CR of 2. I cannot get this set to boot stable above 6k currently as well, but I'm thinking that's a BIOS issue most likely as well. The sticks will boot but it seems the memory controller just flakes out.

Still working on tighting up the timings though. 

This is my current 24/7 Stable, 0 Error (Memtest, Prime95, and OCCT long duration) settings:










Temps also don't exceed 50c even with long test durations due to heatspreaders + active fan cooling on the DIMs.


----------



## satinghostrider

Spock-_- said:


> My current best at the moment. I cannot get it to boot whatsoever at CR 1, so until further potential BIOS updates i'm stuck at CR of 2. I cannot get this set to boot stable above 6k currently as well, but I'm thinking that's a BIOS issue most likely as well. The sticks will boot but it seems the memory controller just flakes out.
> 
> Still working on tighting up the timings though.
> 
> This is my current 24/7 Stable, 0 Error (Memtest, Prime95, and OCCT long duration) settings:
> 
> View attachment 2542487
> 
> 
> Temps also don't exceed 50c even with long test durations due to heatspreaders + active fan cooling on the DIMs.


CR1 is not easy to boot with 4 DIMM boards. Only few boards can do it.


----------



## Spock-_-

satinghostrider said:


> CR1 is not easy to boot with 4 DIMM boards. Only few boards can do it.


Good to know, thanks. That’s a path I’ll stop beating myself on then lol


----------



## satinghostrider

Spock-_- said:


> Good to know, thanks. That’s a path I’ll stop beating myself on then lol


You'll probably have much better luck with the Apex or Tachyon. 👍


----------



## bl4ckdot

Delided the Oloy kit, hopefully I get the fittings for the waterblock tonight 









Anyone had the chance on UX to compare one of the lastest XOC bios (A12u4 or A12u5 vs the beta linked earlier : A21) ? I'm on A12u4 and everyting is been perfect so far


----------



## bigfootnz

cletus-cassidy said:


> Hey all, been having a hell of a time with some Dell Hynix sticks. I can get 6200 c36-36-36-76 1N to boot (can boot as lows as 30-35-35-40) but can't get them stable no matter what I do. I've tried all kinds of voltage combinations but I keep getting errors between 30-80% on Karhu (see my current system/settings below as well as link to CMO BIOS file with settings).
> 
> I haven't been able to identify a trend where I increase or decrease a voltage and it impacts the Karhu testing coverage. I think my CPU has a decent IMC as I was able to get Samsung stable at 6000c32 with lower voltages across the board. I get the same issues when I change RAM speed to 6400 2N 36-36-36-76.
> 
> Any guidance or thoughts would be much appreciated.
> 
> System:
> 
> SP96 12900K
> Apex (811 BIOS)
> CPU overclock fully stable with P @ 5.2ghz all cores up to 5.5ghz 1-2 cores and E @4.2 ghz adaptive voltage with -0.045 offset
> VDD, VDDQ @ 1.5v
> SA at 1.2v
> MC at 1.2v
> CMO link


Try higher MC. In my case 6200C30 I needed MC 1.35V


----------



## satinghostrider

bl4ckdot said:


> Delided the Oloy kit, hopefully I get the fittings for the waterblock tonight
> View attachment 2542512
> 
> 
> Anyone had the chance on UX to compare one of the lastest XOC bios (A12u4 or A12u5 vs the beta linked earlier : A21) ? I'm on A12u4 and everyting is been perfect so far


Are yours RGB rams?


----------



## bl4ckdot

satinghostrider said:


> Are yours RGB rams?


Na, binned non rgb kit.


----------



## matique

Forsaken1 said:


> Past week local store average of 50 kits Ddr5 in stock daily.
> Price still unrealistic.Sammy’s for $500+.
> Anyone booting Sammy’s at 7000+ Benchable?


yeah i can boot + bench 7000c36 samsung consistently on strix itx, but it is not stable. 7200 boots but doesn't bench.


----------



## matique

Got hold of the unify z690 itx. So far it is the better board vs the strix for daily memory. Stabilised 6666c36 for daily use. Required far less voltage compared to strix itx.


----------



## Avacado

matique said:


> yeah i can boot + bench 7000c36 samsung consistently on strix itx, but it is not stable. 7200 boots but doesn't bench.


I'd say you found one of the golden 5600 kits. Solid work. 1.53v though. How are your temps? I can't imagine even running >1.5v on my DDR4 Samsung B-Die even with cooling.


----------



## Nizzen

matique said:


> Got hold of the unify z690 itx. So far it is the better board vs the strix for daily memory. Stabilised 6666c36 for daily use. Required far less voltage compared to strix itx.


Nice 
Want to share Aida64.


----------



## matique

Nizzen said:


> Nice
> Want to share Aida64.












Nothing too special on latency, quite a few items left to tighten.


----------



## matique

Avacado said:


> I'd say you found one of the golden 5600 kits. Solid work. 1.53v though. How are your temps? I can't imagine even running >1.5v on my DDR4 Samsung B-Die even with cooling.


SPDhub reports 50c at 1.53v on a extended karhu run. On the 1.4v 6600c36 profile temps max out at 47C. Using aftermarket spreaders with gelid ultimate pads on them, with a small noctua a9x14 blowing air over it at 1100rpm. Ambient is around 30C.


----------



## sblantipodi

is there someone who is very stable during testing but hangs on reboot?
some suggestions please?


----------



## owikh84

matique said:


> Got hold of the unify z690 itx. So far it is the better board vs the strix for daily memory. Stabilised 6666c36 for daily use. Required far less voltage compared to strix itx.


Good job man, TM5 stable?


----------



## dante`afk

difference between a tight 6200-6400 setup and 7000+ seems pretty miniscule.

looks good on picture, and maybe satisfies your mind, but real world performance difference is zero.


----------



## matique

owikh84 said:


> Good job man, TM5 stable?


Yep, absolut passed, testing on 1usmus and lzmh now, and maybe a short run of karhu. Fully tightened everything to the best of stability. Will update soon.


----------



## matique

dante`afk said:


> difference between a tight 6200-6400 setup and 7000+ seems pretty miniscule.
> 
> looks good on picture, and maybe satisfies your mind, but real world performance difference is zero.


Agreed! Difference between 6200c32 1T and 6666c36 2T is basically 1ns for me, quite neglible. But it is definitely fun to play around with, and seeing my progress from day 1 of playing with ddr5 😂 on first day I gave up after trying for 6000c34 because it was so unstable. Have since learnt more of the limits of certain timings etc.


----------



## Xeq54

Finally managed to get SK Hynix dimms for MSRP (303Eur), wasnt willing to pay scalper prices for naked dells so it was a difficult journey. From Micron to Samsung Nightmare and finally to Hynix. Now off to test XMP stability first and then more adventures await (Doubtful about XMP since this kit is not in ASUS QVL). 

Have an EK monarch kit on the way, though I am hesitant since these look so good.


----------



## matique

owikh84 said:


> Good job man, TM5 stable?












Edit: fixed tabs. Happy with this, should make for a solid daily.


----------



## Lord Alzov

6600 CL28 1T FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE! 47.2NS


----------



## akgis

Spiriva said:


> This is the G skill 6000mhz mem at 6200mhz


Any chance to post timings and even better bios user profile txt settings?

As I have same mobo and ram, would be much apreciated.


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> 6600 CL28 1T FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE! 47.2NS
> View attachment 2542575


Please post more info. Hwinfo is nice to see 
It's a good result if it's aircooling, but pretty average on Ln2. Point is; Provide as much info as possible, so it's easy for everyone to see if the result is good or not. Then we will learn something too 
Love from Norway <3


----------



## opt33

matique said:


> Got hold of the unify z690 itx. So far it is the better board vs the strix for daily memory. Stabilised 6666c36 for daily use. Required far less voltage compared to strix itx.


6666c36 memtest stable with 1.4v is best samsung I have seen, not too far from 1.5v 7000c40 samsung showed november, wonder if Samsung 7000 was same batch just cherry picked, or whether improvements were made (plus binned). Below is what mine looks like if I duplicate your settings and volts.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Please post more info. Hwinfo is nice to see
> It's a good result if it's aircooling, but pretty average on Ln2. Point is; Provide as much info as possible, so it's easy for everyone to see if the result is good or not. Then we will learn something too
> Love from Norway <3


Im on water cooling man. I think u cant on AIR t1 6600.
VDDQ TX 1.48 MC 1.35 VDDQ VERY HIGH


----------



## Simkin

akgis said:


> Any chance to post timings and even better bios user profile txt settings?
> 
> As I have same mobo and ram, would be much apreciated.


+1


----------



## jomama22

Lord Alzov said:


> Im on water cooling man. I think u cant on AIR t1 6600.
> VDDQ TX 1.48 MC 1.35 VDDQ VERY HIGH


Just post a hwinfo pic showing ram voltages and a memtweakit pic of timings.


----------



## ivans89

Anybody here using tachyon board?


----------



## schuldig

Lord Alzov said:


> 6600 CL28 1T FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE! 47.2NS


well done mate, o4en xorosho 



ivans89 said:


> Anybody here using tachyon board?


you sent the unify-x already back and didn't test it?


----------



## ivans89

schuldig said:


> well done mate, o4en xorosho
> 
> 
> 
> you sent the unify-x already back and didn't test it?


i still have it here. But I have tachyon here too. Very weird Mainboard. Can boot without problems on asus and msi up to 7000. on Tachyon seems >6666 impossible…


----------



## mattxx88

matique said:


> Edit: fixed tabs. Happy with this, should make for a solid daily.


awesome results
i think we are the only 2 here with a itx board 
unify x i so overperform strix? i got strix cause of mounting hole for lga1200 so i kept the "old" EK Magnitude block, but if you say it's worth i might do the whole change


----------



## asdkj1740

i would like to sincerely apologize for my previous reply/comment that may be too offensive. i got warned by admin.
after spending months playing with this particular ram kit and actually i have played three packs of this, this kit is so much fun and gives me tremendous joys overclocking it from 4800mhz.
in fact i am very rich and have lots of free time. i don't rma. i just get a new pack when i return the existing one.
so i have to urge everyone to join me here especially for those who are new to ddr5 oc.
if 6000 is what dram vendors rated, and reputation proceeds samsung, not to mention it is on qvl list, 6600mhz should just be a piece of cake for every cpu and every mobo.
i am now aiming at 7000mhz.
my current milestone (1.48v tx vddq , 1.24 mc/vdd2 , vdd vddq 1.37v(active cooling), tm5 passed):









i am sorry, i lied.
the above is my best copy and paste from here, zero input from me.
thanks everyone here who generously share their settings for noob like me to copy. i truly mean it, thank you.





> Hi everyone, I'm new to memory overclocking.
> I've got 2 sticks of g.skill 6000mhz cl36.
> 
> Any recommendation on how to do a simple overclocking that does not require any fan / watercooling solution for the memory and that I can use 24/7? Getting 6200Mhz CL32 would be really sweet haha
> 
> Do you just use Mem TweakIt? There are so many variables it's really confusing :/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> enabling xmp on these sticks is already xoc. so shut up and just use it.
Click to expand...

^^^me.
too rude. i am sorry. i would not do it again. just dont ban me before i successfully reach 7000mhz tm5 passed


----------



## Spock-_-

Can you guys give me some advice. I'm very new to memory overclocking. I always just enabled XMP in the past. I'm not new to Overclocking in general though for other parts.

This was my best run so far on 2x16GB G.Skill 5600C36 Samsung kit










Currently, most likely due to Gigabyte's poor Memory Controller and still pretty early BIOS, I can't seem to make 6400Mhz or 6200Mhz stable yet. I can get them to boot and into Windows though. Stress testing causes errors out the rear end, and will eventually hard lock the system. So i've settled with 6000Mhz for now. Since I can't go higher on the MHz I'm trying really hard to tighten up the timings and reduce overall latency.

I guess my main question is, which values should i be trying to reduce the most / putting the most time into outside of CL, CAS, and RAS?

I have a lot of your guy's posts through this board that I've read to thank for even making it this far. Just curious what I should be working on now.

Another bit of info, Chips are both cooled passively with heat spreaders and actively with air directly blowing across them. at 1.5V they will sit around 50-52c under benchmarks, if that helps.

Thank you guys!


----------



## asdkj1740

Spock-_- said:


> Can you guys give me some advice. I'm very new to memory overclocking. I always just enabled XMP in the past. I'm not new to Overclocking in general though for other parts.
> 
> This was my best run so far on 2x16GB G.Skill 5600C36 Samsung kit
> 
> View attachment 2542589
> 
> 
> Currently, most likely due to Gigabyte's poor Memory Controller and still pretty early BIOS, I can't seem to make 6400Mhz or 6200Mhz stable yet. I can get them to boot and into Windows though. Stress testing causes errors out the rear end, and will eventually hard lock the system. So i've settled with 6000Mhz for now. Since I can't go higher on the MHz I'm trying really hard to tighten up the timings and reduce overall latency.
> 
> I guess my main question is, which values should i be trying to reduce the most / putting the most time into outside of CL, CAS, and RAS?
> 
> I have a lot of your guy's posts through this board that I've read to thank for even making it this far. Just curious what I should be working on now.
> 
> Another bit of info, Chips are both cooled passively with heat spreaders and actively with air directly blowing across them. at 1.5V they will sit around 50-52c under benchmarks, if that helps.
> 
> Thank you guys!


gigabyte does not have memory controller.
have you updated to bios f7?


----------



## Spock-_-

asdkj1740 said:


> gigabyte does not have memory controller.
> have you updated to bios f7?


Ah gotcha. See. That's my limited knowledge of memory based things coming into play 😅

I am currently on F7 yes. Do you think I should be trying something else to get to those Mhz levels outside of just increasing voltage?

Thanks


----------



## opt33

Spock-_- said:


> Ah gotcha. See. That's my limited knowledge of memory based things coming into play 😅
> 
> I am currently on F7 yes. Do you think I should be trying something else to get to those Mhz levels outside of just increasing voltage?
> 
> Thanks


Seen Samsung max at 5600, most 6000-6200, 1 at 6666 for stable settings, just depends on lottery what yours will do. To find max mhz for stable, just set 6200 34-36-36 68, leave everything else on auto, vdd/vddq leave at 1.45, mc 1.2, sa can try stock 0.9 or 1.12ish. If you error out at 6200 on those settings/volts, your kit probably runs better with 6000 and tighter settings. Once you know mhz, just copy others settings at that speed and try them. Each kit is different on capability.


----------



## sblantipodi

is there some suggestion on how to understand when it's time to higher
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ
when it's time to higher SA voltage
and when MC voltage?


----------



## Carillo

sblantipodi said:


> is there some suggestion on how to understand when it's time to higher
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ
> when it's time to higher SA voltage
> and when MC voltage?


----------



## sblantipodi

Carillo said:


> View attachment 2542601


ahahah, but when it happe, should I higher SA voltage? MC Voltage? Memory voltage?
What?


----------



## Carillo

sblantipodi said:


> ahahah, but when it happe, should I higher SA voltage? MC Voltage? Memory voltage?
> What?


the way i do it, use the target frequency with loose timings to find MC. I always use SA auto. Then you go on and tighten timings to find VDD/Q


----------



## sblantipodi

Carillo said:


> the way i do it, use the target frequency with loose timings to find MC. I always use SA auto. Then you go on and tighten timings to find VDD/Q


is there a way to see if I need to higher SA?

suppose that I have no error in memtest but sometimes after 30 minutes cinebench crashes... what should I try to higher?


----------



## matique

mattxx88 said:


> awesome results
> i think we are the only 2 here with a itx board
> unify x i so overperform strix? i got strix cause of mounting hole for lga1200 so i kept the "old" EK Magnitude block, but if you say it's worth i might do the whole change


Nah not worth switching just for ram OC. Strix is very capable too.


----------



## owikh84

matique said:


> Edit: fixed tabs. Happy with this, should make for a solid daily.


Would love to see TM5 anta777 Extreme1 or ABSOLUT like you usually used.
Thank you.


----------



## Dinnzy

*KF560C40BBK2-32,Black Kingston 

is she sk Hynix ! In stock on Amazon *


----------



## morph.

Spiriva said:


> This is the G skill 6000mhz mem at 6200mhz


Nice what voltages & other timings did you end up going with? I'm still trying to find a way to post at 6200mhz or moreon my z690 formula..


----------



## Forsaken1

Dinnzy said:


> *KF560C40BBK2-32,Black Kingston
> 
> is she sk Hynix ! In stock on Amazon *


Appears Hynix.Delivery mid February…….


----------



## Forsaken1

ivans89 said:


> i still have it here. But I have tachyon here too. Very weird Mainboard. Can boot without problems on asus and msi up to 7000. on Tachyon seems >6666 impossible…


Set memory volts tachyon.Dell Hynix.Bios Xde.
Not DRAM Vdd/VddQ.
Create XMP profile with spd program.
Select XMP profile created.
Follow images below.


----------



## Spock-_-

My current fully stable. Tested long form in OCCT, p95, TM5 extreme config, Memtest, and Intel's memory stress test. No errors. RAM sticks stay below 55c.

Cannot get it to post above 6000 still, so I keep tightening timings as much as possible. Hopefully future Gigabyte BIOS will lead to better results.


----------



## matique

owikh84 said:


> Would love to see TM5 anta777 Extreme1 or ABSOLUT like you usually used.
> Thank you.


I guess there's always going to be skeptics lol. Just for ya bud i re-ran it through absolut.


----------



## ThinbinJim

matique said:


> I guess there's always going to be skeptics lol. Just for ya bud i re-ran it through absolut.


Did you also disable MCH to avoid memory retraining on the unify?


----------



## Simkin

Anyone running ram fan on Apex here? Im also using the m.2 dimm card and thinking of adding a fan to my Trident memory. I see g.skill and corsair have fans but don't know how they fit with the m.2 module being there or how effective they are. 

My 3090 FE has the top rear exhaust fan right under the ram 😵


----------



## Spiriva

morph. said:


> Nice what voltages & other timings did you end up going with? I'm still trying to find a way to post at 6200mhz or moreon my z690 formula..


I didnt change alot. Just sat the memory to 6200mhz and changed the fallowing settings:

Maximus tweak > Mode 2
Primary Timings > 34-36-36-55
Dram REF Cycle Time > 700
Dram Refresh Interval > 65535

Late Command Training > Disable
Round Trip Latency > Enable
Turn Around Timing Training > Disable

VDD > 1.400v
VDDQ > 1.400v
VCCSA > 1.1v (seemed to be fine with 1.05000v too after some more testing)

Dram VDD Switching frequancy > 1.00000
Dram VDDQ Switching frequancy > 1.00000

*Need to say that my friend did also order the "G.Skill 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 Trident Z5 - F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K" 
and he also got a z690 hero with a 12900k, we got pretty much identical systems, both on latest bios for z690 Hero, beta 0070. 
However his F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K would not go over 6000mhz even with the VDD/VDDQ turned up to 1.5v


----------



## jhlee0133

Got a pair of V Color 6000 here, samsung but not stable at all even on xmp.
Contacted the people there but I have yet to get any response from them.
I don't know if I'm regretting the purchase but I feel kinda bad right now


----------



## asdkj1740

ThinbinJim said:


> Did you also disable MCH to avoid memory retraining on the unify?


what is MCH?




jhlee0133 said:


> Got a pair of V Color 6000 here, samsung but not stable at all even on xmp.
> Contacted the people there but I have yet to get any response from them.
> I don't know if I'm regretting the purchase but I feel kinda bad right now


they (dram vendors) never learn, i guess they are still blaming mobo vendors.



Forsaken1 said:


> Set memory volts tachyon.Dell Hynix.Bios Xde.
> Not DRAM Vdd/VddQ.
> Create XMP profile with spd program.
> Select XMP profile created.
> Follow images below.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2542654
> View attachment 2542655


DRAM Vdd/VddQ=tx vddq
it also fills ddr5 pmic vdd and vddq the same values if they are left auto.

gigabyte namings are genius!


----------



## Nizzen

jhlee0133 said:


> Got a pair of V Color 6000 here, samsung but not stable at all even on xmp.
> Contacted the people there but I have yet to get any response from them.
> I don't know if I'm regretting the purchase but I feel kinda bad right now


v-color is a scammer firm. They sold 100% Hynix 6200 kits, but they where samsung... When we confronted them, they just edited the homepage. They just delited the name Hynix


----------



## matique

ThinbinJim said:


> Did you also disable MCH to avoid memory retraining on the unify?


As far as I can tell i don't have to do it. Has always rebooted stable reliably. Can even reload stable profiles without needing to worry about it. 

Only cons of this board is if it is unstable, the boot drive goes missing lmao. Have to cmos reset and it's back.


----------



## CptSpig

Spock-_- said:


> My current fully stable. Tested long form in OCCT, p95, TM5 extreme config, Memtest, and Intel's memory stress test. No errors. RAM sticks stay below 55c.
> 
> Cannot get it to post above 6000 still, so I keep tightening timings as much as possible. Hopefully future Gigabyte BIOS will lead to better results.


Here are my stable 24/7 settings same kit at 6000 on Apex board.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

bigfootnz said:


> Try higher MC. In my case 6200C30 I needed MC 1.35V


Thanks, will do. I'm looking for a 24/7 memory overlock. Do we have a read on whether 1.35v MC is getting into the risky area?


----------



## GtiJason

Nizzen said:


> v-color is a scammer firm. They sold 100% Hynix 6200 kits, but they where samsung... When we confronted them, they just edited the homepage. They just delited the name Hynix


That's how I feel about Adata XPG kit I got around 10 days ago. All info at the time pointed to 6000c40 kit as Hynix but nope they are Sammies.
I have a better feeling about the backup kit that comes in a week or so since Kingston rarely use Samsung IC's. Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL40 KF560C40BBK2-32


----------



## Carillo

Testing DELL 4800 Hynix
12900K SP79 
6600 cl28. 

Takes a LOT of voltage to do c28 @6600( at least with my sticks). 1.67VDD BIOS ( water-cooled with Supercool ram-coolers, and delta is only 2 degree load. sick


----------



## jomama22

GtiJason said:


> That's how I feel about Adata XPG kit I got around 10 days ago. All info at the time pointed to 6000c40 kit as Hynix but nope they are Sammies.
> I have a better feeling about the backup kit that comes in a week or so since Kingston rarely use Samsung IC's. Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL40 KF560C40BBK2-32


Tbf, none of this is new, happened in the ddr4 days as well. Just how it goes. What they have a supply of and works is what will be used.


----------



## sblantipodi

for the sake of curiosity, can you tell me what is the MC Voltage built in inside the XMP profile of a 6GHz+ kit ?


----------



## jomama22

Carillo said:


> Testing DELL 4800 Hynix
> 12900K SP79
> 6600 cl28.
> 
> Takes a LOT of voltage to do c28 @6600( at least with my sticks). 1.67VDD BIOS ( water-cooled with Supercool ram-coolers, and delta is only 2 degree load. sick
> 
> View attachment 2542760


At that point would just use 28-37-37-28 6400 1t with tighter secondaries/thirds. Will be faster overall excluding read bandwidth (tm5 will finish minutes faster with the 1t profile). Will also save you voltage (1.53v get for me). Not at my desk now but at 50 ring with those timings, nets in Aida 104.5/102300/101900/48ns.

2T just isn't worth it at all unless you can do 6800/30+ with tight second/thirds. The only thing that will look good is Aida but the actual performance suffers. Just test tm5 runs against each other and you will see the difference actual memory performance.


----------



## Carillo

jomama22 said:


> At that point would just use 28-37-37-28 6400 1t with tighter secondaries/thirds. Will be faster overall excluding read bandwidth (tm5 will finish minutes faster). Will also save you voltage (1.53v get for me). Not at my desk now but at 50 ring with those timings, nets in Aida 104.5/102300/101900/48ns.


Thanks man!


----------



## jomama22

Carillo said:


> Thanks man!


Yeah, given same timing, 1t vs 2t is right around a 300-400mhz difference in tm5 test time from what iv tested. Each CL step is worth a bit over 200mhz given same timings. 7000/30/2t is slightly slower tm5 time wise compared to 6400/28/1t, and especially 6600/28/1t. Of course Aida will look fantastic with the 7000, but in actual use it will be worse. That obviously depends on the benchmark being used as to what makes most sense for the best score, but overall, the 6400-6600/28/1t is really best overall.

This is all within the vacuum of right now. When ddr5 matures and hits 8000+ frequencies as the norm, cl steps won't matter as much.


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Testing DELL 4800 Hynix
> 12900K SP79
> 6600 cl28.
> 
> Takes a LOT of voltage to do c28 @6600( at least with my sticks). 1.67VDD BIOS ( water-cooled with Supercool ram-coolers, and delta is only 2 degree load. sick
> 
> View attachment 2542760


cRAzY!


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Carillo said:


> Thanks man!


Can u take a picture of Supercool ram waterblock with Dell Hynix? I installed it last night but cant cover the whole chip on the stick.


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can u take a picture of Supercool ram waterblock with Dell Hynix? I installed it last night but cant cover the whole chip on the stick.


They won't on any ddr5 stick as the ddr5 ic's sit much lower than ddr4's. Just about all water-cooling ram sinks were made for ddr4 and will leave the bottom 1/4 or so on the ic exposed.


----------



## Carillo

jomama22 said:


> They won't on any ddr5 stick as the ddr5 ic's sit much lower than ddr4's. Just about all water-cooling ram sinks were made for ddr4 and will leave the bottom 1/4 or so on the ic exposed.


Do you have those super cool coolers ? Or are you just throwing random words out ? Well, i have them and they cover 100% of the IC. They are made for DDR5


----------



## schuldig

Carillo said:


> Receiving my Super cool DDR5 coolers next week  Reported delta only 2 °C under load. . As you can see, water is flowing over the IC's like no other dram cooler
> View attachment 2541199
> 
> View attachment 2541196
> 
> View attachment 2541195
> 
> View attachment 2541198
> 
> View attachment 2541197


quoting you so @jomama22 can see it for himself. the monarch and alphacool are indeed DDR4 coolers but those are custom made for DDR5


----------



## jomama22

Carillo said:


> Do you have those super cool coolers ? Or are you just throwing random words out ? Well, i have them and they cover 100% of the IC. They





schuldig said:


> quoting you so @jomama22 can see it for himself. the monarch and alphacool are indeed DDR4 coolers but those are custom made for DDR5


Yes, I stand corrected. Had misinterpreted what dram sinks he was talking about.


----------



## sblantipodi

what are the suggested temp for Samsung chip?
is 70°C/75°C ok?


----------



## jhlee0133

Nizzen said:


> v-color is a scammer firm. They sold 100% Hynix 6200 kits, but they where samsung... When we confronted them, they just edited the homepage. They just delited the name Hynix


Contacted them about the issue and they've decided to offer me a swap after I show them all my tests are pointing to instant error on karhu and tm5. It's gonna be another Samsung but I hope at least the new one can do something reasonable.


----------



## owikh84

Nizzen said:


> v-color is a scammer firm. They sold 100% Hynix 6200 kits, but they where samsung... When we confronted them, they just edited the homepage. They just delited the name Hynix


LOL. What you said is true. I managed to save the pic of the Hynix ICs originally advertised by V-Color in their 6000 CL40 product page:










Now: DDR5 RGB 32GB(16GBx2) 6000MHz CL40 Gaming Overclocking Memory Ram| v-color









But I guess they forgot to remove the DTXXXX labelling? hmm


----------



## satinghostrider

owikh84 said:


> LOL. What you said is true. I managed to save the pic of the Hynix ICs originally advertised by V-Color in their 6000 CL40 product page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now: DDR5 RGB 32GB(16GBx2) 6000MHz CL40 Gaming Overclocking Memory Ram| v-color
> View attachment 2542801
> 
> 
> But I guess they forgot to remove the DTXXXX labelling? hmm


Yeah and them fools knew when it was Hynix it was USD$999 and now 'miraculously' it's down to $649 or $699. Wouldn't trust them again with stunts like this.


----------



## Herald

My experience so far with Apex 0811 bios and Samsung 6000c36.

XMP2 works fine with an increase on the MC voltage and dimm voltage.
The Apex profile 6000c32 works fine with 2T.

But when I try 1T, either the XMP or the apex profile, sometimes I finish 10 cycles of TM5 and after a restart I get instant errors. Don't know if it's the IMC or just a bios thing, tried MCV @ 1.38 just to make sure and no difference, after every restart it's random whether ill be stable or not.


----------



## satinghostrider

Herald said:


> My experience so far with Apex 0811 bios and Samsung 6000c36.
> 
> XMP2 works fine with an increase on the MC voltage and dimm voltage.
> The Apex profile 6000c32 works fine with 2T.
> 
> But when I try 1T, either the XMP or the apex profile, sometimes I finish 10 cycles of TM5 and after a restart I get instant errors. Don't know if it's the IMC or just a bios thing, tried MCV @ 1.38 just to make sure and no difference, after every restart it's random whether ill be stable or not.


I find that setting SA to 0.95V solves many of the weird instabilities. On some boots you can pass at 1.1V or 1.2V then the next boot everything goes to ****. Also, 6000C32 1T preset, I'm only using MC 1.275V and VDD/VDDQ at 1.405V. VDDTXQ is at 1.4V. 0811 BIOS here as well.


----------



## fullspb

jomama22 said:


> Just post a hwinfo pic showing ram voltages and a memtweakit pic of timings.


He does not publish screenshots. He considers it his intellectual property
These are his real words on the Russian forum 

ps Lord Alzov ты хоть тут не устраивай клоунаду. Не позорь наши жопы. Твои водоблоки разглядывать никому не интересно


----------



## Dinnzy

OliSydney said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to memory overclocking.
> 
> 
> 
> satinghostrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 6000c32 itself needs a ram fan as at that frequency and timings you're already at 1.4ish. Games like Vanguard without a ram fan would crash to desktop the minute you're in the high 40s low 50s. I've tried it and that was in an AC room. The G.skills don't have a PMIC thermal pad that's the whole problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I’ve been crashing with error 6661 on warzone basically 1.5 hours into a session every time since launch. Do you think this is the same issue ? I’ll check my temps on Sunday when I have time to play.
Click to expand...


----------



## sugi0lover

DDR5 OC : 6933 CL28 performance test by myself (not stable yet)

6933-28-40-40-30-320-2T
Hynix 4800 CL40


----------



## Esenel

fullspb said:


> He does not publish screenshots. He considers it his intellectual property
> These are his real words on the Russian forum
> 
> ps Lord Alzov ты хоть тут не устраивай клоунаду. Не позорь наши жопы. Твои водоблоки разглядывать никому не интересно


As the settings in his posts do not show stable settings, it does not matter at all what he is posting in my opinion :-D


----------



## sblantipodi

satinghostrider said:


> I find that setting SA to 0.95V solves many of the weird instabilities. On some boots you can pass at 1.1V or 1.2V then the next boot everything goes to ****. Also, 6000C32 1T preset, I'm only using MC 1.275V and VDD/VDDQ at 1.405V. VDDTXQ is at 1.4V. 0811 BIOS here as well.


Do you consider MCV 1.275V a reasonable voltage?
Will not show degradation over time?


----------



## satinghostrider

sblantipodi said:


> Do you consider MCV 1.275V a reasonable voltage?
> Will not show degradation over time?


Most are running 1.3V and above for the same setting. Just that with my kit I could reduce. Initially I dropped to 1.25V but Vanguard crashes once in a while and upping it to 1.275V so far seems to have solved it. I find I'm most stable at SA at 0.95V. Even at 1.05V it gets weird crashes in Vanguard randomly despite passing TestMem 5. So I'm sticking to 0.95V.


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> Do you consider MCV 1.275V a reasonable voltage?
> Will not show degradation over time?


If you care about degration, overclocking isn't for you....

Noone knows anything about degration over time with spesific "voltages". Noone ever tested it, and no one will do. Before "degration" is a problem, we are overclocking a new generation cpu 
Hope that helps 

PS: Cooling is more important than thinking about "voltage"


----------



## Herald

sblantipodi said:


> Do you consider MCV 1.275V a reasonable voltage?
> Will not show degradation over time?


Νot claiming to be a pro when it comes to alderlake, but 1.275 for older gen CPUs is nowhere near close to degradation territory. Personally anything below 1.35v on the MC, I wouldn't mind running it daily. Now if you plan to keep your CPU for 5+ years, I guess you should stick to 1.3 and below. 

Was running my 10900k for 1 year at around 1.45SA and 1.5IO no problem, and had the 8700k for 3 years at higher voltages than that. Still works to this day without any obvious degradation


----------



## Herald

satinghostrider said:


> I find that setting SA to 0.95V solves many of the weird instabilities. On some boots you can pass at 1.1V or 1.2V then the next boot everything goes to ****. Also, 6000C32 1T preset, I'm only using MC 1.275V and VDD/VDDQ at 1.405V. VDDTXQ is at 1.4V. 0811 BIOS here as well.


The problem is, unless you have some good cooling on the ram it's really hard to test stability, cause at the end of the 10 TM5 cycles the ram temperatures approach or even exceed 50C. At that point not sure what causes the errors. . I'm trying 0.95V but I don't see much difference, first boot I finish 10 cycles ---> restart and then throws errors immediately. 

Honestly don't mind, coming from an 11600k, the 12900k is no joke even at 6000c32 2T, so I'll happily stick to that for the time being.


----------



## satinghostrider

Herald said:


> The problem is, unless you have some good cooling on the ram it's really hard to test stability, cause at the end of the 10 TM5 cycles the ram temperatures approach or even exceed 50C. At that point not sure what causes the errors. . I'm trying 0.95V but I don't see much difference, first boot I finish 10 cycles ---> restart and then throws errors immediately.
> 
> Honestly don't mind, coming from an 11600k, the 12900k is no joke even at 6000c32 2T, so I'll happily stick to that for the time being.


What board are you using? My rams are actively cooled by a Ram fan. TM5 doesn't exceed 51 degrees and gaming is around 37-38 degrees.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> If you care about degration, overclocking isn't for you....
> 
> Noone knows anything about degration over time with spesific "voltages". Noone ever tested it, and no one will do. Before "degration" is a problem, we are overclocking a new generation cpu
> Hope that helps
> 
> PS: Cooling is more important than thinking about "voltage"


yup

been running tm5 for months @1.65 vdd

so can say safe if wced. 

mc i think its not degradation but theres a max value. after that things become unstable.


----------



## Forsaken1

Lord Alzov said:


> I stable TM5(EXTREEME and LMHZ) at 6800CL30 and now 6933cl30 try, what about you?
> This GUY FULLSPB PM me on russian forum and He asked me for a ready-made CMO file for the bios.
> He asked me to help set up the memory, and when I refused, he started trolling.Trolling is fair when people with intelligence like a monkey can't adjust their memory, but real overclockers show the result.


Post what you want.How you want to.
Myselfe
Would rather watch a HWBOT benchmark run then memory test program🤬.


----------



## Esenel

Lord Alzov said:


> I stable TM5(EXTREEME and LMHZ) at 6800CL30 and now 6933cl30 try, what about you?


I am stable at 8888 CL8.
See:
<No proof>

Now I have delivered as much proof as you did.


----------



## asdkj1740

Esenel said:


> I am stable at 8888 CL8.
> See:
> <No proof>
> 
> Now I have delivered as much proof as you did.


i used to get tm5 absolute test passed but still bsod from time to time.
nothing can really prove 100% stability. 
not even the dram vendors this time.


----------



## Nizzen

There is no 100% stable, just "stable" in given scenarioes.

Scenarioes is a crazy list of things. One of them is temperature...


----------



## sblantipodi

Herald said:


> Νot claiming to be a pro when it comes to alderlake, but 1.275 for older gen CPUs is nowhere near close to degradation territory. Personally anything below 1.35v on the MC, I wouldn't mind running it daily. Now if you plan to keep your CPU for 5+ years, I guess you should stick to 1.3 and below.
> 
> Was running my 10900k for 1 year at around 1.45SA and 1.5IO no problem, and had the 8700k for 3 years at higher voltages than that. Still works to this day without any obvious degradation


thank you for the help man, I appreciate it.


----------



## sblantipodi

satinghostrider said:


> Most are running 1.3V and above for the same setting. Just that with my kit I could reduce. Initially I dropped to 1.25V but Vanguard crashes once in a while and upping it to 1.275V so far seems to have solved it. I find I'm most stable at SA at 0.95V. Even at 1.05V it gets weird crashes in Vanguard randomly despite passing TestMem 5. So I'm sticking to 0.95V.


this is interesting, thank you for the answer, can you tell me what RAM you have and at what frequency?


----------



## Lord Alzov

Forsaken1 said:


> Post what you want.How you want to.
> Myselfe
> Would rather watch a HWBOT benchmark run then memory test program🤬.


I have many world record(Gold cup) on HW bot, what problemm with u?
Alzov`s 3DMark - Fire Strike Ultra score: 14856 marks with a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti (hwbot.org)
Alzov`s 3DMark - Fire Strike Extreme score: 27050 marks with a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti (hwbot.org)
Alzov`s 3DMark - Fire Strike score: 46666 marks with a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti (hwbot.org)
Alzov`s 3DMark - Time Spy Extreme score: 11566 marks with a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti (hwbot.org)
Alzov`s Unigine Superposition - 8K Optimized score: 8750 points with a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti (hwbot.org)
Alzov`s Unigine Superposition - 1080P Xtreme score: 15063 points with a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti (hwbot.org)


Esenel said:


> I am stable at 8888 CL8.
> See:
> <No proof>
> 
> Now I have delivered as much proof as you did.


I post many proof, but u dont read, i can post again if u need.
6800CL30 24/7 TM5 STABLE. 5300 ALL CORE AVX 5300 LINX STABLE.


----------



## Lord Alzov

cstkl1 said:


> yup
> 
> been running tm5 for months @1.65 vdd
> 
> so can say safe if wced.
> 
> mc i think its not degradation but theres a max value. after that things become unstable.


I use 1.65 bios. On HW info 1.575+. U use 1.65 HW info? or on bios?


----------



## Lord Alzov

Can stabilize 6400 CR1 LOW CL


----------



## schuldig

Since this thread is more active than the ADL CPU Thread, I'll post the information here.

Rockit ool presented their Delid Tool









INTEL 12th GEN CPU - DELIDED / RELIDDED WITH STOCK IHS


----------



## ivans89

schuldig said:


> Since this thread is more active than the ADL CPU Thread, I'll post the information here.
> 
> Rockit ool presented their Delid Tool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INTEL 12th GEN CPU - DELIDED / RELIDDED WITH STOCK IHS


the frame is missing? :/


----------



## ivans89

working on stability on 6933 with samsung. will post some more soon.
But still on air..


----------



## asdkj1740

ivans89 said:


> working on stability on 6933 with samsung. will post some more soon.
> 
> View attachment 2542878
> View attachment 2542879


what Samsung's model is that


----------



## opt33

sugi0lover said:


> DDR5 OC : 6933 CL28 performance test by myself (not stable yet)
> 
> 6933-28-40-40-30-320-2T
> Hynix 4800 CL40


nice run and latency! From yours and others, hynix and samsung both scale well with lower temps, especially water cooling with low ambient. Im tempted to put my computer outside in 2C (monitor/keyboard inside) to get some idea of what my ram would do if decided to watercool it...not too much trouble to add ram to my loop.


----------



## ivans89

asdkj1740 said:


> what Samsung's model is that


Here is a photo.


----------



## Herald

satinghostrider said:


> What board are you using? My rams are actively cooled by a Ram fan. TM5 doesn't exceed 51 degrees and gaming is around 37-38 degrees.


Im using Apex. 

After some testing, seems like 0.9V on SA did the trick!!Now I can run the preset 6000c32 1T. Did 3 restarts and they all passed TM5. I'm using 1usmus preset, not sure if I should be doing anta, but honestly,it's a gaming PC so 10 cycles on 1usmus - im happy with that level of stability.


----------



## asdkj1740

ivans89 said:


> Here is a photo.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2542882


mind blowing.
thanks for sharing.


----------



## skullbringer

unfiy-x (bios 12u4) + adata 6000c40 (hynix) = 6800 32-41-48 1T 
1.45 vdd, vddq, vdd2, cpu vddq, sa 
RTLs 66/66/66/66


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> unfiy-x (bios 12u4) + adata 6000c40 (hynix) = 6800 32-41-48 1T
> 1.45 vdd, vddq, vdd2, cpu vddq, sa
> RTLs 66/66/66/66
> 
> View attachment 2542965


Nice !

Next aim for sub 50ns


----------



## schuldig

ivans89 said:


> the frame is missing? :/


not sure if it would be possible this gen as the cpu has a 1005 SMD cap in the corner has the height of 0.46mm and is exactly the height of the die itself.
but I guess we'll find out soon enough 🙂

btw shipping of the delid tool starts on january the 20th FYI. Hope they or some other company offer a copper IHS as well in the near future.


----------



## satinghostrider

Herald said:


> Im using Apex.
> 
> After some testing, seems like 0.9V on SA did the trick!!Now I can run the preset 6000c32 1T. Did 3 restarts and they all passed TM5. I'm using 1usmus preset, not sure if I should be doing anta, but honestly,it's a gaming PC so 10 cycles on 1usmus - im happy with that level of stability.


That's great. I'm not sure if it's specific to Samsung but even running 1V SA I still did get random boots to desktop on some days even with TM5 passing. 0.95V for me seems to work so far 1 week in without any crashes. 1usmus is pretty good to test and I prefer it over anta due to the way it's configured to allocate, refresh and re-allocate. But my ultimate test is Vanguard as I find any small issues with voltages or timings, it will just kick you to desktop.


----------



## AdamK47

Why are you guys setting your tRAS so low? The common consensus is tRAS cannot go lower than tCL + tRCD. Anything lower gives no performance gain.


----------



## jomama22

skullbringer said:


> unfiy-x (bios 12u4) + adata 6000c40 (hynix) = 6800 32-41-48 1T
> 1.45 vdd, vddq, vdd2, cpu vddq, sa
> RTLs 66/66/66/66
> 
> View attachment 2542965


Make sure your not setting a cmd rate skew like n:1 with skew 2-4 which ents up being 2n-4n. Odd latency would be so high.


----------



## ivans89

schuldig said:


> not sure if it would be possible this gen as the cpu has a 1005 SMD cap in the corner has the height of 0.46mm and is exactly the height of the die itself.
> but I guess we'll find out soon enough 🙂
> 
> btw shipping of the delid tool starts on january the 20th FYI. Hope they or some other company offer a copper IHS as well in the near future.


look on the site of rockit. If you go on preorder now, and there at the bottom:*COPPER IHS COMING SOON!!*


----------



## Feo

skullbringer said:


> unfiy-x (биос 12u4) + адата 6000c40 (hynix) = 6800 32-41-48 1T
> 1.45 vdd, vddq, vdd2, процессор vddq, са
> RTL 66/66/66/66
> 
> View attachment 2542965
> 
> [/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ] You are lucky, I took the same memory and I got a Samsung (((


----------



## HiLuckyB

Supercool computer on Facebook will sell you a delid tool, And a direct die CPU waterblock right now. Just have to message them on Facebook.
I have there waterblock on my 12900K right now, And at 330 watt package power I'm at 76c hottest core. But I do have 20c water temps right now


----------



## Stockman

skullbringer said:


> unfiy-x (bios 12u4) + adata 6000c40 (hynix) = 6800 32-41-48 1T
> 1.45 vdd, vddq, vdd2, cpu vddq, sa
> RTLs 66/66/66/66
> 
> View attachment 2542965


Can you please clarify your bios version? A21 (beta) is the latest I'm aware of. Thanks.


----------



## asdkj1740

Stockman said:


> Can you please clarify your bios version? A21 (beta) is the latest I'm aware of. Thanks.


that is a special bios for ram tuning.
E7D28IMS.A12U4


----------



## schuldig

asdkj1740 said:


> that is a special bios for ram tuning.
> E7D28IMS.A12U4


thanks, do you mind sharing the link please?


----------



## ivans89

asdkj1740 said:


> that is a special bios for ram tuning.
> E7D28IMS.A12U4


Oh where to get this one?


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> Nice !
> 
> Next aim for sub 50ns


ty, I've already seen exactly 49.9 ns with this setup, without blck bugging aida, but it doesn't seem to be reproducible after tm5 has run. just aida weirdness...



Stockman said:


> Can you please clarify your bios version? A21 (beta) is the latest I'm aware of. Thanks.





schuldig said:


> thanks, do you mind sharing the link please?





ivans89 said:


> Oh where to get this one?








E7D28IMS.A12U4.zip







drive.google.com





don't have an official source, also just got it via DM's, new xoc bios based on this version allegedly coming soon (tm).
btw it's microcode 15, so avx-512 also still works


----------



## jeiselramos

After 2 days playing with my z690 apex i finally stabilized 6000C32 over reboot with my 6000C36 kit, cpu is stock


----------



## skullbringer

legit sub 50ns aida, as in 100.00 bclk. and yes, windows 10 gives me 4 ns over windows 11, fun with aida episode 69 😂


----------



## opt33

AdamK47 said:


> Why are you guys setting your tRAS so low? The common consensus is tRAS cannot go lower than tCL + tRCD. Anything lower gives no performance gain.


There are kits sold from manufacturers where tRAS is lower than tCL+tRCD, like DDR5-6000MHz CL40-40-40-76 1.30V








F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6000U4040E16GA2-TZ5RK - Specification - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6000 CL40-40-40-76 1.30V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP




www.gskill.com





Granted there are likely diminishing returns in normal app use at some point, but you can lower tRAS by 10-15 and see read speeds clearly increase in aida plus small improvements in latency if control for variance, and small improvement in apps like y-cruncher.


----------



## sblantipodi

jeiselramos said:


> After 2 days playing with my z690 apex i finally stabilized 6000C32 over reboot with my 6000C36 kit, cpu is stock
> View attachment 2543046
> View attachment 2543047


I said this thing so many times, testing for 2 days and all it's ok, third day nothing is ok with the same settings.


----------



## jeiselramos

sblantipodi said:


> I said this thing so many times, testing for 2 days and all it's ok, third day nothing is ok with the same settings.


I will let you know 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ivans89

sblantipodi said:


> I said this thing so many times, testing for 2 days and all it's ok, third day nothing is ok with the same settings.


same here, that’s why I’m testing unify x now.
I think apex has a training problem.


----------



## warbucks

HiLuckyB said:


> Supercool computer on Facebook will sell you a delid tool, And a direct die CPU waterblock right now. Just have to message them on Facebook.
> I have there waterblock on my 12900K right now, And at 330 watt package power I'm at 76c hottest core. But I do have 20c water temps right now
> View attachment 2543016
> View attachment 2543017


Nice. I just messaged him and he sent me a quote for the cpu block and DDR5 ram block. Gonna grab them as well.


----------



## Lord Alzov

skullbringer said:


> legit sub 50ns aida, as in 100.00 bclk. and yes, windows 10 gives me 4 ns over windows 11, fun with aida episode 69 😂
> 
> View attachment 2543054


ITS FAKE t1. HIGH latency and RTL.
My memory now 6933 CL30 








48.6NS best run latency


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Do you guys turn off HT to get high fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider lowest 1080p and other games? I cant get anywhere near 360. Only 340 with Ht on.


----------



## sblantipodi

ivans89 said:


> same here, that’s why I’m testing unify x now.
> I think apex has a training problem.


please keep us posted


----------



## centvalny

7400 next


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> 7400 next
> View attachment 2543182


Crazy! 
Nice job 😍


----------



## Lord Alzov

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Do you guys turn off HT to get high fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider lowest 1080p and other games? I cant get anywhere near 360. Only 340 with Ht on.


----------



## ViTosS

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Do you guys turn off HT to get high fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider lowest 1080p and other games? I cant get anywhere near 360. Only 340 with Ht on.


I think they do, last time I remember highest was 371fps, but people have updated their mem OC, so everyone should post your new SOTTR benchmark runs


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Lord Alzov said:


> View attachment 2543186


1080p lowest ht on or off?


----------



## jomama22

ViTosS said:


> I think they do, last time I remember highest was 371fps, but people have updated their mem OC, so everyone should post your new SOTTR benchmark runs


Highest I have with my daily stable was 374 a while ago:








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


anyone knows if the gskill 6000 cl36 are hynix or samsung? at least the cl 40 on asus page show as hynix




www.overclock.net





Have tweaked things slightly since then so latency is 48.0 and copy is 101800 or so. Havn't bench sottr since then, though I imagine it wouldn't produce much difference, maybe 1 or 2 fps on a good day.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

jomama22 said:


> Highest I have with my daily stable was 374 a while ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> anyone knows if the gskill 6000 cl36 are hynix or samsung? at least the cl 40 on asus page show as hynix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have tweaked things slightly since then so latency is 48.0 and copy is 101800 or so. Havn't bench sottr since then, though I imagine it wouldn't produce much difference, maybe 1 or 2 fps on a good day.


And ht on or off?


----------



## Zyther

is there any kits that are guaranteed to be hynix and not samsung


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Zyther said:


> is there any kits that are guaranteed to be hynix and not samsung


kingston 5600 corsair vengeance 5600


----------



## matique

Streamroller said:


> kingston 5600 corsair vengeance 5600


Corsair vengeance 5600 is really hynix? I thought it would be samsung.


----------



## karoc

matique said:


> Corsair vengeance 5600 is really hynix? I thought it would be samsung.


I had one of these kits and it was Samsung, so YMMV.


----------



## ivans89

Zyther said:


> is there any kits that are guaranteed to be hynix and not samsung


teamgroup 6400c40


----------



## asdkj1740

ivans89 said:


> teamgroup 6400c40


too rude.


----------



## jeiselramos

50% in 2 minutes, there's something wrong


----------



## asdkj1740

Z690 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.x) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com












Z690 AERO D (rev. 1.x) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com




gigabyte once again adds back some 6600mhz kits on qvl list for aorus master and aero d.


also, gskill once again adds some mobo models into their qvl lists but gigabyte aorus master has no such 6000J3636F kit listed.
we don't know what die is used yet.








F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6000J3636F16GA2-TZ5RK - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6000J3636F16GA2-TZ5RK. Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6000 CL36-36-36-96 1.35V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP.




www.gskill.com


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Do you guys turn off HT to get high fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider lowest 1080p and other games? I cant get anywhere near 360. Only 340 with Ht on.


There is one update that boosted the score, and a newer one broke it. Don't remember the version now, but will find it....
1080p lowest
Run ht=off and 60hz to score the best.

Edit: Found it


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> There is one update that boosted the score, and a newer one broke it. Don't remember the version now, but will find it....
> 1080p lowest
> Run ht=off and 60hz to score the best.
> 
> Edit: Found it
> 
> View attachment 2543259


The newest build includes those optimizations/drm removal. Saw no difference between 558 and 449 when I was testing back then, just happened to have 449 running for that test. 551(I think it is) has the drm in it though.


----------



## opt33

Anyone with any ideas if some issue with ddr5 stability at higher volts (higher mhz) is due to voltage regulation on current pmic (for example if volt reg not well suited yet for higher volts than 1.4, etc). On ddr4 where voltage reg is via mobo, if set 1.5v in bios, typically see 1.49-1.51 load over time, ie less variance ~0.02v. On ddr5 with volt regulation on pmic if you set 1.5 in bios, voltage during load over time can vary 1.42 to 1.55, ie .13 or more.

Realize voltage variance is normal with changing load/current and maybe pmic has better sensors for detecting voltage change vs ddr4, but wouldnt think changing loads/current on ddr5 necessitates that much voltage swing. Guess in time will see if newer pmic with kits sold with higher volts has same variance or not. Would be interesting to see specs on volt reg on pmic vs mobo.


----------



## jomama22

opt33 said:


> Anyone with any ideas if some issue with ddr5 stability at higher volts (higher mhz) is due to voltage regulation on current pmic (for example if volt reg not well suited yet for higher volts than 1.4, etc). On ddr4 where voltage reg is via mobo, if set 1.5v in bios, typically see 1.49-1.51 load over time, ie less variance ~0.02v. On ddr5 with volt regulation on pmic if you set 1.5 in bios, voltage during load over time can vary 1.42 to 1.55, ie .13 or more.
> 
> Realize voltage variance is normal with changing load/current and maybe pmic has better sensors for detecting voltage change vs ddr4, but wouldnt think changing loads/current on ddr5 necessitates that much voltage swing. Guess in time will see if newer pmic with kits sold with higher volts has same variance or not. Would be interesting to see specs on volt reg on pmic vs mobo.


You can try upping the pmic vdd/vddq frequency and see if that helps. I personally don't see swings but I know others have.


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> You can try upping the pmic vdd/vddq frequency and see if that helps. I personally don't see swings but I know others have.


You can't trust software. You guys have probes, you should take a wire to the IC and measure it and only trust hardware measurements (someone on elmor's channel must know the pinouts)
I've seen the +1.8v report 1.385v then go back to 1.8v, and VDD go from 1.335v to 0.00v. Clearly neither of those mean anything.


----------



## Simkin

These new G.Skill 6000J3636 kits are showing up in web shops here I Norway now, slightly more expensive than the 6000E kits.

1.35v instead of 1.3… Hynix?


----------



## ChaosAD

G.Skill 6000J3636 at Alternate.de but shows 1.3v in details, so just a copy/paste info mistake?


----------



## GtiJason

ChaosAD said:


> G.Skill 6000J3636 at Alternate.de but shows 1.3v in details, so just a copy/paste info mistake?


G.Skill is showing 1.35 @ 6000-36-36-36-96








F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5K F5-6000J3636F16GA2-TZ5K - Specification - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 CL36-36-36-96 1.35V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP




gskill.com


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> These new G.Skill 6000J3636 kits are showing up in web shops here I Norway now, slightly more expensive than the 6000E kits.
> 
> 1.35v instead of 1.3… Hynix?


This is Hynx I think:
Looks like in stock too 








Kingston FURY Beast - DDR5 - sett - 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB - DIMM 288-pin - 6000 MHz / PC5-48000 - CL40 - 1.35 V - ikke-bufret - on-die ECC - svart


Kingston FURY Beast DDR5 Memory16GB capacities up to 6000MHzKingston FURY™ Beast DDR5 memory brings the latest cutting-edge technology for next-gen gaming p...




www.computersalg.no


----------



## Dinnzy

Finally have my warzone running stable. I used the default 6000 profile (I have the cl36 6000 Samsung sticks) set me SA to .94 and my trefi is at 40,000 I’ve been getting errors beyond that number. My Memtest is **** though. 58.6 ns. What would you guys play with next to squeeze out every frame ? I saw some people have there there trefi 60k plus ?


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> Finally have my warzone running stable. I used the default 6000 profile (I have the cl36 6000 Samsung sticks) set me SA to .94 and my trefi is at 40,000 I’ve been getting errors beyond that number. My Memtest is **** though. 58.6 ns. What would you guys play with next to squeeze out every frame ? I saw some people have there there trefi 60k plus ?


Disable E-cores, 5ghz cache, 5,5ghz P-core all core. Lower ns is often the best for games. Higher trefi is often better for lower ns and bandwidth. Impact temp abit, so it's harder to have it high.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> This is Hynx I think:


At this point I think everything got samsung IC's...but I got tracking for it just in case


----------



## centvalny

7200c32 Apex 0072 & Green Hynix strips
1.62/1.59/1.375/1.36 dd/dq/mc/sa
7400 next!


----------



## owikh84

Kingston FURY KF556C40BBK2 5600Mhz CL40 is Hynix 
I think we can almost safely conclude that Kingston 5600-6000 will be Hynix, AFAIK they never used Samsung on DDR4.


----------



## GtiJason

SuperMumrik said:


> At this point I think everything got samsung IC's...but I got tracking for it just in case


I hear that, everything I've been able to actually buy and have received has been Samsung. I figured the G.Skill 6000c36 and c40 kits would be but was really hoping the Adata Lancer 6000c40 would be Hynix. Still waiting for Kingston Fury 6000c40 kit though so I'm praying this is it



jomama22 said:


> Tbf, none of this is new, happened in the ddr4 days as well. Just how it goes. What they have a supply of and works is what will be used.


Oh believe me I know, DDR1 was the worse with many kits having no distinguishable marking betweeen BH5 (Winbond) and TCCD (Samsung)
I remember the Corsair XMS kits with their version numbers, could be the same ver no but if it was from a "Twin" kit os single you may have different IC
DDR3 was bad too but at least they made an effort and changed 1 letter


----------



## therealjustin

My Corsair Vengeance 5600 C36 kit is finally here from Taiwan, but I still don't have a motherboard. I needed low profile memory to use with a Noctua D15 and this was the best available. 🙄 Is this Samsung?


----------



## GtiJason

jomama22 said:


> Tbf, none of this is new, happened in the ddr4 days as well. Just how it goes. What they have a supply of and works is what will be used.





therealjustin said:


> My Corsair Vengeance 5600 C36 kit is finally here from Taiwan, but I still don't have a motherboard. I needed low profile memory to use with a Noctua D15 and this was the best available. 🙄 Is this Samsung?


Most likely Sammies


CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 ver 4.43SSSamsung36-36-36-761.25v

CMT32GX5M2X5600C36 ver 4.43SSSamsung36-36-36-761.25v


----------



## Stockman

skullbringer said:


> don't have an official source, also just got it via DM's, new xoc bios based on this version allegedly coming soon (tm).
> btw it's microcode 15, so avx-512 also still works


Wow, that bios is not fooling around - thanks! I've finally been able to make some progress on this version. Is there anything obvious below to focus on for latency reduction?


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Kingston FURY KF556C40BBK2 5600Mhz CL40 is Hynix
> I think we can almost safely conclude that Kingston 5600-6000 will be Hynix, AFAIK they never used Samsung on DDR4.
> 
> View attachment 2543335


You got CR1 working on this kit on non-Apex? Is this stable?


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> You got CR1 working on this kit on non-Apex? Is this stable?


Yeah I could bench with 1T on the Extreme. Basically I just loaded the supplied ASUS Hynix 6000 profile and adjusted the timings from 36-35-34-52 to 34-35-34-52 (not sure why ASUS made such timing profile though) and the voltages. 
I'm still testing the stability test in the form of TM5, guess just need the perfect voltage pairing to stabilize it. Or maybe I should try 34-36-34-52 etc.


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Yeah I could bench with 1T on the Extreme. Basically I just loaded the supplied ASUS Hynix 6000 profile and adjusted the timings from 36-35-34-52 to 34-35-34-52 (not sure why ASUS made such timing profile though) and the voltages.
> I'm still testing the stability test in the form of TM5, guess just need the perfect voltage pairing to stabilize it. Or maybe I should try 34-36-34-52 etc.


What MC and SA you are running now? Vdd and vddq are 1.45/1.35?


----------



## SuperMumrik

This seems to be close to the limit for my green dell sticks :/
At 6400 1T I have to do a major timing drop, but I'll get some new sticks next week =)


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> What MC and SA you are running now? Vdd and vddq are 1.45/1.35?


VDD 1.45v
VDDQ 1.35v (this probably needs to increase)
TX VDDQ 1.45v
MC 1.25v
SA 1.25v (Auto)


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> VDD 1.45v
> VDDQ 1.35v (this probably needs to increase)
> TX VDDQ 1.45v
> MC 1.25v
> SA 1.25v (Auto)


On my Hero for 6200C20 2T I need vdd/vddq/mc/sa 1.5/1.4/1.35/auto(1.25)


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> On my Hero for 6200C20 2T I need vdd/vddq/mc/sa 1.5/1.4/1.35/auto(1.25)


Nice, is it stable? Maybe I missed it but didn't you post anywhere before.


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Nice, is it stable? Maybe I missed it but didn't you post anywhere before.





bigfootnz said:


> This is what I managed with Z690 Hero, i9-12900KF SP89 and Kinston Beast Fury 6000C40 (Hynix) - 6200C30 VDD 1.5V, VDDQ 1.4V, MC 1.35V, SA auto (1.25V). CPU is 53-52-51, TVB+1 and E cores off, but this is only on test bench with 280mm AIO. Next week I'll replace my main rig 10900K, where I'll see true potential of this CPU with custom loop.
> 
> View attachment 2542276
> View attachment 2542277
> View attachment 2542278
> View attachment 2542279
> View attachment 2542280


Stable, but I would like to boot 1T and test it against 2T


----------



## Muad_Dib69

SA down to 1.20 instead of 1.25, total freeze instead of bsod and reboot, i don't know if it's better... I will try 1.15 tonight.


----------



## skullbringer

Stockman said:


> Wow, that bios is not fooling around - thanks! I've finally been able to make some progress on this version. Is there anything obvious below to focus on for latency reduction?


optimizing your RTLs can do a decent bit for latency. "Round Trip Latency" enable will get you most of the way there, it's in the memory training settings


----------



## satinghostrider

Just curious in what ways is Apex 9901 better than the previous bios? I'm on 0811 now so far stabilised with 6200C321T.


----------



## asdkj1740

skullbringer said:


> optimizing your RTLs can do a decent bit for latency. "Round Trip Latency" enable will get you most of the way there, it's in the memory training settings


strange. i found almost zero differences when round trip latency is enabled.


----------



## asdkj1740

MPG Z690 FORCE WIFI


MPG series motherboards offers brand new silver look and feel, tuned for better performance by direct 18 phases VRM power, DDR5 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen5 solution, Premium Thermal Solution, Wi-Fi 6E, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2




www.msi.com






G.SKILLF5-6000U4040D16GX2-TZ5RS4800MHz6000MHz6000 MHzSK hynix M1.25vSINGLE16√ | √ |G.SKILLF5-6000U4040D16GX2-TZ5RS4800MHz6000MHz6000 MHzSamsung B1.25vSINGLE16√ | √ |

G.SKILLF5-6400U4040F16GX2-TZ5S4800MHz6400MHz6400 MHzSK hynix M1.35vSINGLE16√ | √ |

i dont think the voltage of gskill sticks is the way to tell what die is used inside.

D=1.25V
E=1.30V
F=1.35V


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> You got CR1 working on this kit on non-Apex? Is this stable?


Just to update you that CR1 works well on this 4 DIMM board.
Not sure why one of the sticks has sudden spike in temp ~ 64c though, bad heat spreaders maybe?

12900K SP88 - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 0070
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)

*2x16GB DDR5-6000 34-36-36-52-1T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 1.25v (Auto) | MC 1.25v*









Update: 6000 32-35-35-52-1T looks stable as well with MC 1.275v, to be updated tomorrow.


----------



## sblantipodi

what is the general consensous on this thread?
is it better TM5 or Karhu for discovering instability?


----------



## karoc

sblantipodi said:


> what is the general consensous on this thread?
> is it better TM5 or Karhu for discovering instability?


For me personally I've always found TM5 to pick-up instability much more quickly than Karhu so I tend to favour that over pretty much anything else.


----------



## asdkj1740

sblantipodi said:


> what is the general consensous on this thread?
> is it better TM5 or Karhu for discovering instability?


samsung xmp=xoc


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> what is the general consensous on this thread?
> is it better TM5 or Karhu for discovering instability?


Battlefield 2042 with low settings 😁
Best memory stresstest. 1 hour is hard, and testing the whole system


----------



## bigfootnz

karoc said:


> For me personally I've always found TM5 to pick-up instability much more quickly than Karhu so I tend to favour that over pretty much anything else.


With ddr5 and z690, I was able to pass tm5 and mempro test 200% easily but I was failing Karhu quickly.


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Just to update you that CR1 works well on this 4 DIMM board.
> Not sure why one of the sticks has sudden spike in temp ~ 64c though, bad heat spreaders maybe?
> 
> 12900K SP88 - Stock
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 0070
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-6000 34-36-36-52-1T
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 1.25v (Auto) | MC 1.25v*
> View attachment 2543469
> 
> 
> Update: 6000 32-35-35-52-1T looks stable as well with MC 1.275v, to be updated tomorrow.
> View attachment 2543487


Do you have Karhu to test it? For me Karhu was hardest to pass 2+ hours, tm5 and mempro test was much easier.

I can see that this is with Bios 0070, you didn’t test it with 0811?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

How do you guys decide a good stick?


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Battlefield 2042 with low settings 😁
> Best memory stresstest. 1 hour is hard, and testing the whole system


Battlefield 2042 on ultra REALY test memory!


----------



## sippo

Gskill 6400 shows up:
6400 CL32 1.35V - probbably SK or new b die?









G.Skill Trident Z5 32 Go (2 x 16 Go) DDR5 6400 MHz CL32 - Noir - Mémoire PC G.Skill sur LDLC


Achat Mémoire PC G.Skill Trident Z5 32 Go (2 x 16 Go) DDR5 6400 MHz CL32 - Noir (F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K) sur LDLC, n°1 du high-tech. Kit Dual Channel 2 barrettes de RAM DDR5 PC5-51200 - F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K.




www.ldlc.com


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> Battlefield 2042 on ultra REALY test memory!


180-230fps stressing the system harder


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How do you guys decide a good stick?


If it's green Hynix


----------



## GtiJason

Hopefully now my wallet can rest ( for DDR5 that is ) Still contemplating mainboards lol


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> Do you have Karhu to test it? For me Karhu was hardest to pass 2+ hours, tm5 and mempro test was much easier.
> 
> I can see that this is with Bios 0070, you didn’t test it with 0811?


Nope, I only test TM5 for now as I found it to be more reliable and consistent.
Haven't flashed back to 0811 yet, as it was bad for my 4x16GB earlier.

Okay, I just noticed you're using TM5 Ollie profile rather than the commonly used anta777 Absolut/Extreme1 or 1usmus v3.


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Nope, I only test TM5 for now as I found it to be more reliable and consistent.
> Haven't flashed back to 0811 yet, as it was bad for my 4x16GB earlier.
> 
> Okay, I just noticed you're using TM5 Ollie profile rather than the commonly used anta777 Absolut/Extreme1 or 1usmus v3.


No, first my test is 1usmus v3 then Ollie, as I’ve found that Ollie can pick up errors which 1usmus or anta777 do not. 
Now I’ve different test methodology. Start Karhu let it run for 5min, stop it and start it again. If there is problem usually it will pick up by Karhu in 10-15min or even sooner in second run. Then I run tm5 1usmus, then mempro 200% or 400% and then Ollie.
What I can see that in your case 0070 is better. When I’m back from holiday I’ll give it go, as at the moment I was not able to run 1T on 0811. To be honest I didn’t tested properly as I was under impression that it is not possible on 4 dimm board with 6000+. I know that your board is better than mine but still it is 4 dimm so there is some hope.


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> No, first my test is 1usmus v3 then Ollie, as I’ve found that Ollie can pick up errors which 1usmus or anta777 do not.
> Now I’ve different test methodology. Start Karhu let it run for 5min, stop it and start it again. If there is problem usually it will pick up by Karhu in 10-15min or even sooner in second run. Then I run tm5 1usmus, then mempro 200% or 400% and then Ollie.
> What I can see that in your case 0070 is better. When I’m back from holiday I’ll give it go, as at the moment I was not able to run 1T on 0811. To be honest I didn’t tested properly as I was under impression that it is not possible on 4 dimm board with 6000+. I know that your board is better than mine but still it is 4 dimm so there is some hope.


Yeah, you should give it a try. I have limited time for testing due to my long working hour. Daily I only have like 3-4 hours in front of my PC, so I must say my testing was quick and easy LOL.


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> Yeah, you should give it a try. I have limited time for testing due to my long working hour. Daily I only have like 3-4 hours in front of my PC, so I must say my testing was quick and easy LOL.


At the moment, this PC is just on test bench, so for me it easy to do longer test runs. Previously I was doing just TM5 1usmus and Mempro 200%, but then I’ve found that this was stable in these programs all the time but not in the Karhu. This DDR5 is weird or bios still needs to mature. Usually when I introduce instability whit memory tweaking, only what helps me to go back on track is clear cmos. With DDR4 it was much easier.


----------



## inedenimadam

Someone suggested that I play around with ODT settings to try and stabilize my horrible XMP attempts. Does anybody have guidance on ODT ranges to start with? 
Apex+Gskill 6000c36


----------



## bei fei

Does anyone know what chips this team kit uses? _FF3D532G6000HC38ADC01
I picked a set up and want to make sure they are hynix._


----------



## inedenimadam

bei fei said:


> Does anyone know what chips this team kit uses? _FF3D532G6000HC38ADC01
> I picked a set up and want to make sure they are hynix._


CPU-Z can tell you.


----------



## marti69

my best stable memory oc with gskill 6000 cl 40 kit.


----------



## Currys

I've read every single post in this thread, paying close attention to 5600c36 & 6000c36 samsung DIMMS as I have the Corsair 5600C36 samsungs.

I'm struggling to get stable at any voltages. I'm 'stable' at 30-34-34-48 but prefer 32-34-34-52...
As soon as I adjust secondaries I get errors in TM5 especially when increasing tREFi, 65535 is errors out the arse, 24224 is much less errors.
I've been using 1.4 VDD/VDDQ, tried 1, 1.1 and 1.15 SA also 1.15, 1.2, 1.25 and 1.3 MC and I still encounter errors.

Can someone help me fix this issue please?

1.4v VDD/VDDQ & tx VDDQ, 1.1v SA, 1.3v MC


----------



## satinghostrider

Currys said:


> I've read every single post in this thread, paying close attention to 5600c36 & 6000c36 samsung DIMMS as I have the Corsair 5600C36 samsungs.
> 
> I'm struggling to get stable at any voltages. I'm 'stable' at 30-34-34-48 but prefer 32-34-34-52...
> As soon as I adjust secondaries I get errors in TM5 especially when increasing tREFi, 65535 is errors out the arse, 24224 is much less errors.
> I've been using 1.4 VDD/VDDQ, tried 1, 1.1 and 1.15 SA also 1.15, 1.2, 1.25 and 1.3 MC and I still encounter errors.
> 
> Can someone help me fix this issue please?
> 
> 1.4v VDD/VDDQ & tx VDDQ, 1.1v SA, 1.3v MC
> 
> View attachment 2543591


Try 1.41V-1.42 VDD/VDDQ, 1.40 VDDTXQ, 0.95 SA and keep 1.3V MC. I think you should be running 32-35-35-52 instead of 32-34-34-52. The Asus preset is 32-35-35-52.

I'd highly recommend you to reset your bios. Shutdown your PC. Pull out power plug or switch off power. Wait 30s. Press cmos clear for 30s. Wait 10s. Start your system again and do everything again. Do not load from any user profile saved. You can load the 6000c32 preset but remember to change command rate to 2. I'd highly recommend you to run your CPU stock first to isolate any memory related instabilities. Also, monitor your memory temps that they don't cross 50-55 degrees during TM5. Keeping it below 50 is optimal. You'll need an active fan if you're running 6000c32 at 1.4V as heat could also be the cause of your instability.

I've found that when you play with timings and keep adjusting them it almost always throws errors even if they are stable unless you do a complete CMOS reset and start over again from scratch. Try this and see if it works.


----------



## Herald

Currys said:


> I've read every single post in this thread, paying close attention to 5600c36 & 6000c36 samsung DIMMS as I have the Corsair 5600C36 samsungs.
> 
> I'm struggling to get stable at any voltages. I'm 'stable' at 30-34-34-48 but prefer 32-34-34-52...
> As soon as I adjust secondaries I get errors in TM5 especially when increasing tREFi, 65535 is errors out the arse, 24224 is much less errors.
> I've been using 1.4 VDD/VDDQ, tried 1, 1.1 and 1.15 SA also 1.15, 1.2, 1.25 and 1.3 MC and I still encounter errors.
> 
> Can someone help me fix this issue please?
> 
> 1.4v VDD/VDDQ & tx VDDQ, 1.1v SA, 1.3v MC
> 
> View attachment 2543591


If you are getting errors 15 minutes in it's probably a temperature issue, did you check your dimms temperature? Also, try 0.95 SA, it fixed all of my problem


----------



## Currys

satinghostrider said:


> Try 1.41V-1.42 VDD/VDDQ, 1.40 VDDTXQ, 0.95 SA and keep 1.3V MC. I think you should be running 32-35-35-52 instead of 32-34-34-52. The Asus preset is 32-35-35-52.
> 
> I'd highly recommend you to reset your bios. Shutdown your PC. Pull out power plug or switch off power. Wait 30s. Press cmos clear for 30s. Wait 10s. Start your system again and do everything again. Do not load from any user profile saved. You can load the 6000c32 preset but remember to change command rate to 2. I'd highly recommend you to run your CPU stock first to isolate any memory related instabilities. Also, monitor your memory temps that they don't cross 50-55 degrees during TM5. Keeping it below 50 is optimal. You'll need an active fan if you're running 6000c32 at 1.4V as heat could also be the cause of your instability.
> 
> I've found that when you play with timings and keep adjusting them it almost always throws errors even if they are stable unless you do a complete CMOS reset and start over again from scratch. Try this and see if it works.


Just completely reset CMOS
applied the memory preset samsung 6000c32 and left everything alone, apart from SA 0.95
everything else is per the preset, 1.43 vdd/vddq and tx vddq - 1.3375 MC < something like that

1st error 39s
2nd error 3m 4s
3rd error 3m 50s
4-8 at 4m 12s
Ended test.


----------



## satinghostrider

Currys said:


> Just completely reset CMOS
> applied the memory preset samsung 6000c32 and left everything alone, apart from SA 0.95
> everything else is per the preset, 1.43 vdd/vddq and tx vddq - 1.3375 MC < something like that
> 
> 1st error 39s
> 2nd error 3m 4s
> 3rd error 3m 50s
> 4-8 at 4m 12s
> Ended test.


Drop down to 1.41 vdd/vddq, 1.40 vddtxq and 1.3v mc. Try again. Make sure command rate is set to 2. What are you temps?


----------



## Arni90

Currys said:


> I've read every single post in this thread, paying close attention to 5600c36 & 6000c36 samsung DIMMS as I have the Corsair 5600C36 samsungs.
> 
> I'm struggling to get stable at any voltages. I'm 'stable' at 30-34-34-48 but prefer 32-34-34-52...
> As soon as I adjust secondaries I get errors in TM5 especially when increasing tREFi, 65535 is errors out the arse, 24224 is much less errors.
> I've been using 1.4 VDD/VDDQ, tried 1, 1.1 and 1.15 SA also 1.15, 1.2, 1.25 and 1.3 MC and I still encounter errors.
> 
> Can someone help me fix this issue please?
> 
> 1.4v VDD/VDDQ & tx VDDQ, 1.1v SA, 1.3v MC
> 
> View attachment 2543591


Try this:
tREFIx9 to 20
tREFI to 15000


----------



## Currys

satinghostrider said:


> Drop down to 1.41 vdd/vddq, 1.40 vddtxq and 1.3v mc. Try again. Make sure command rate is set to 2. What are you temps?


Temps are in my last image



Arni90 said:


> Try this:
> tREFIx9 to 20
> tREFI to 15000


I shall also try this now and run a test, report back within 10mins


----------



## Currys

Arni90 said:


> Try this:
> tREFIx9 to 20
> tREFI to 15000


1.41 vdd/vddq and 1.4 vddqtx - SA 0.95 - 1.3 MC

tREFix9 20
tREFi 15000

1st error 1m18s @ 50.8c
2nd error 3m 32s @ 58c
3rd error 5m50s 61.5c

Test still going with more errors coming in ....


----------



## lolhaxz

Currys said:


> 1.41 vdd/vddq and 1.4 vddqtx - SA 0.95 - 1.3 MC
> 
> tREFix9 20
> tREFi 15000
> 
> 1st error 1m18s @ 50.8c
> 2nd error 3m 32s @ 58c
> 3rd error 5m50s 61.5c
> 
> Test still going with more errors coming in ....
> 
> View attachment 2543617


You are wasting your time with your primaries AND secondaries that tight. Set secondaries to AUTO. Considering the state of the bios at the moment, you are not going to get that stable on your little 4 banger there if you are getting errors that early.

Get to a point where you are error free before you go randomly chucking rocket science at it... resetting your bios over and over and reconfiguring is ... just stupid, there's very few circumstances where doing it (even the once) will help.


----------



## Currys

lolhaxz said:


> You are wasting your time with your primaries AND secondaries that tight. Set secondaries to AUTO. Considering the state of the bios at the moment, you are not going to get that stable on your little 4 banger there if you are getting errors that early.
> 
> Get to a point where you are error free before you go randomly chucking rocket science at it.


Secondaries are the ones that make the biggest difference 👀


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What do you think about this memory?



https://gzhls.at/blob/ldb/7/9/2/b/8624ba4a9eabed920b690c3e6ee7046c99ab.pdf



I have it for a good price in my local market...


----------



## satinghostrider

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think about this memory?
> 
> 
> 
> https://gzhls.at/blob/ldb/7/9/2/b/8624ba4a9eabed920b690c3e6ee7046c99ab.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I have it for a good price in my local market...


5600 and 6000 probably is Hynix. 5200 could be micron or mixed. @owikh84 is testing the 5600 version right now and his one is Hynix.


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> 5600 and 6000 probably is Hynix. 5200 could be micron or mixed. @owikh84 is testing the 5600 version right now and his one is Hynix.


Asked Kingston about every 6000mhz Beast kit has Hynix. Got answer today;


"Sadly it is not possible to provide information regarding which DRAM chip is used on our Kingston modules.
As one of the largest buyers of DRAM in the world, Kingston sources memory components directly from the world’s leading DRAM semiconductor manufacturers, which we used to build memory modules according to JEDEC industry standard specifications. 
All Kingston memory modules are 100% factory tested using our proprietary testing process on both custom and commercially available motherboards/systems. 
Additionally, Kingston modules are submitted for Intel and AMD platform validation, and original motherboard manufacturer qualification to reinforce broad compatibility"


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Asked Kingston about every 6000mhz Beast kit has Hynix. Got answer today;
> 
> 
> "Sadly it is not possible to provide information regarding which DRAM chip is used on our Kingston modules.
> As one of the largest buyers of DRAM in the world, Kingston sources memory components directly from the world’s leading DRAM semiconductor manufacturers, which we used to build memory modules according to JEDEC industry standard specifications.
> All Kingston memory modules are 100% factory tested using our proprietary testing process on both custom and commercially available motherboards/systems.
> Additionally, Kingston modules are submitted for Intel and AMD platform validation, and original motherboard manufacturer qualification to reinforce broad compatibility"


Yeah that's what everyone says. Mixed particles lol.
But some have remarked that Kingston haven't used Samsung nands for the longest time so it's either Micron or Hynix. It's frustrating but guess you can only buy it based on odds.


----------



## Currys

1.35 VDD / VDDQ / txVDDQ
1.2 MC
1.0 SA

5800 34-36-36-52
seconds & Terts all auto


----------



## asdkj1740

bf2042 1440p lowest indeed is a good ram test.


----------



## bscool

asdkj1740 said:


> bf2042 1440p lowest indeed is a good ram test.


What kind of fps are you seeing running that?


----------



## owikh84

That one stick is still giving 63.8c max temp, broken sensor?

12900K SP88 - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 0070
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)

*2x16GB DDR5-6000 32-35-35-52-1T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.275v*


----------



## asdkj1740

bscool said:


> What kind of fps are you seeing running that?


144, as i set 144 as fps cap.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> Asked Kingston about every 6000mhz Beast kit has Hynix. Got answer today;


I'll give you a guesstimate based on my kit this friday


----------



## 7empe

Hi Guys,

Nothing special, but that's what I got so far using G.SKILL DDR5-6000 16GBx2 CL36-36-36-76 1.30V (part number F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK) with Samsung dies. TM5 stable. My 12900KF has combined SP of 88 (P-cores 97 and E-cores 72) running P-cores 52x, E-Cores 41x, Cache 44x at 1.42V LLC4 (1.217-1.225V die sense under load).

With E-Cores disabled, running P-cores 52x and Cache 50x gives sub 50 ns latency.

VDD 1.435V
VDDQ 1420V
SA 0.95V
MCV 1.31250V


----------



## mattxx88

any idea how to improve latency?
CR1 bsod
trefix9 80


----------



## Spiriva

This is how my ddr5 (G.skill 6000 cl36 - F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K) looks now:



































How long is it recommended to run Karhu Ram test?

Primary Timings > 34-36-36-55
Dram REF Cycle Time > 800
Dram Refresh Interval > 65535

Late Command Training > Disable
Round Trip Latency > Enable
Turn Around Timing Training > Disable

VDD > 1.420v
VDDQ > 1.420v
SA > 0.950v
MC > 1.312v


----------



## Muad_Dib69

still tryin everything with my gskill 6000cas36, sa0.95v vdd 1.45v mc 1.2, mode 2 with preset from asus in 2t because 1 1t it doesn't even boot. Stable with tm5 until 64°. But then all the time green bsod and don't even finish the dump and reboot. I moved up and down voltage and now i don't know what to do. it happens also in xmp1 so i finnally went back to ausus prest. I start to be tired....bios 070 on formula, maybe go back to 811? any help is welcome.


----------



## sblantipodi

bigfootnz said:


> At the moment, this PC is just on test bench, so for me it easy to do longer test runs. Previously I was doing just TM5 1usmus and Mempro 200%, but then I’ve found that this was stable in these programs all the time but not in the Karhu. This DDR5 is weird or bios still needs to mature. Usually when I introduce instability whit memory tweaking, only what helps me to go back on track is clear cmos. With DDR4 it was much easier.


I experienced a similar testing, once I hitted the instability I tried resetting everything to default and the instability was there,
resetting the bios and turning the PC OFF and then ON solved the problem.
I experienced this problem 4 or 5 times since I bought the new hardware.


----------



## sblantipodi

satinghostrider said:


> Try 1.41V-1.42 VDD/VDDQ, 1.40 VDDTXQ, 0.95 SA and keep 1.3V MC. I think you should be running 32-35-35-52 instead of 32-34-34-52. The Asus preset is 32-35-35-52.
> 
> I'd highly recommend you to reset your bios. Shutdown your PC. Pull out power plug or switch off power. Wait 30s. Press cmos clear for 30s. Wait 10s. Start your system again and do everything again. Do not load from any user profile saved. You can load the 6000c32 preset but remember to change command rate to 2. I'd highly recommend you to run your CPU stock first to isolate any memory related instabilities. Also, monitor your memory temps that they don't cross 50-55 degrees during TM5. Keeping it below 50 is optimal. You'll need an active fan if you're running 6000c32 at 1.4V as heat could also be the cause of your instability.
> 
> I've found that when you play with timings and keep adjusting them it almost always throws errors even if they are stable unless you do a complete CMOS reset and start over again from scratch. Try this and see if it works.


For what it worth my Samsung remains stable even at 67°C once I found the stable setting.


----------



## satinghostrider

sblantipodi said:


> I experienced a similar testing, once I hitted the instability I tried resetting everything to default and the instability was there,
> resetting the bios and turning the PC OFF and then ON solved the problem.
> I experienced this problem 4 or 5 times since I bought the new hardware.


Some people are stupid and oblivious to this fact. Quite clear they have not been testing enough to know it's an issue till now. If I understand correctly someone reported 9901 on Apex didn't have this issue anymore.


----------



## sblantipodi

satinghostrider said:


> Some people are stupid and oblivious to this fact. Quite clear they have not been testing enough to know it's an issue till now. If I understand correctly someone reported 9901 on Apex didn't have this issue anymore.


I was afraid of posting this because it seems so stupid to me a problem like this, but once experienced 4 or 5 times I can confirm that it happen on the Extreme too, using 0070 BIOS here.


----------



## lolhaxz

sblantipodi said:


> I was afraid of posting this because it seems so stupid to me a problem like this, but once experienced 4 or 5 times I can confirm that it happen on the Extreme too, using 0070 BIOS here.


What you are seeing is called a red herring...

Just rebooting it with full check on/fast boot off will have the exact same effect. (which is how you should have it configured anyway for hunting stability, so the variance shows up instead of some days later after a full power cycle) - try it.

0070 is worse on the extreme than 811 - both them suffer the same reboot - reboot stability, ie run tests stable, reboot, stable, switch off machine and turn it back on again, boom, unstable - this happens at the edge of stability... rather than as a rule.


----------



## sblantipodi

lolhaxz said:


> What you are seeing is called a red herring...
> 
> Just rebooting it with full check on/fast boot off will have the exact same effect. (which is how you should have it configured anyway for hunting stability, so the variance shows up instead of some days later after a full power cycle) - try it.
> 
> 0070 is worse on the extreme than 811 - both them suffer the same reboot - reboot stability, ie run tests stable, reboot, stable, switch off machine and turn it back on again, boom, unstable - this happens at the edge of stability... rather than as a rule.


I finally found my settings to be 100% stable on 0070. Hope they will last.
It doesn't crash since days so it should be good 
In any case on my rig 0070 is much better than 0811.


----------



## bei fei

inedenimadam said:


> CPU-Z can tell you.


My board is not here yet so I am not able to check.


----------



## jhlee0133

A quick update on the v color 6000 cl40 kit i have, they replaced my previous unit with a new one and it can now stable with xmp.

Currently testing it with the samsung 6000 cl32 preset on my z690 apex but the issue now is that i can't get it stable at all.

vdd, vddq - tried from 1.4-1.44
mc - tried from 1.25 - 1.275
sa - auto


----------



## GtiJason

Oh my ! Looks like it's time to order the APEX, was waiting on Aqua OC and Dark but this price is crazy and EVGA Classy is already like $630 so Dark will likely be more than Apex









ASRock Z690 AQUA OC LGA 1700 DDR5 Intel Z690 SATA 6Gb/s Extended ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com


Buy ASRock Z690 AQUA OC LGA 1700 DDR5 Intel Z690 SATA 6Gb/s Extended ATX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Dinnzy

Are most ddr4 ram waterblocks compatible with ddr5 and if so which ones on Amazon so you recommend ;p?


----------



## centvalny

Apex bios 0080 first boot samsung up to 6600 with xmp1 ram settings


----------



## Alberto_It

centvalny said:


> Apex bios 0080 first boot with samsung up to 6600 on xmp 1 ram settings
> View attachment 2543758


It would be interesting to understand the stability under Cinebench and games


----------



## asdkj1740

centvalny said:


> Apex bios 0080 first boot with samsung up to 6600 on xmp 1 ram settings
> View attachment 2543758


magic xmp profile gives you <60ns latency?


----------



## centvalny

@asdkj1740 I just installed the kits and set xmp1, and freq to 6600.


----------



## Herald

sblantipodi said:


> For what it worth my Samsung remains stable even at 67°C once I found the stable setting.


Yeah, mine starts spitting errors at 58.5c just about


----------



## 7empe

Dinnzy said:


> Are most ddr4 ram waterblocks compatible with ddr5 and if so which ones on Amazon so you recommend ;p?


I just put the EKWB block taken from my DDR4 kit. The difference is that DDR5 chips are slightly closer to the pcb pins, so they are covered by EK-Monarch block in around 80%. However it is not big deal, because with good thermal pads all the heat can be taken out - 33C under TM5.


----------



## Spiriva

GtiJason said:


> Oh my ! Looks like it's time to order the APEX, was waiting on Aqua OC and Dark but this price is crazy and EVGA Classy is already like $630 so Dark will likely be more than Apex


I got the Hero, but decided its time to go with the Apex as well. Sold my Hero and ordered an Apex yesterday


----------



## karoc

I have a kit of F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K which I could not get stable at XMP1 or XMP2 even with additional voltage and lots of playing around. I ended up running them at 5200CL32 which was stable. I had similar poor experiences with a Corsair Vengeance kit (also Samsung).

However, I managed to get hold of some Hynix Team Group sticks yesterday, specifically, FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 and they have booted at both XMP1 and XMP2 with no issues at all. And I have passed hours of TM5 with the 1usmus anta777 profiles.

It definitely seems (in my case at least) that these Hynix based kits are much more stable than the Samsung ones.

EDIT: I'm using a Z690 APEX with BIOS 9901. Tried various different bios versions and couldn't get the Samsung's stable at their rated speeds though.


----------



## Alberto_It

karoc said:


> I have a kit of F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K which I could not get stable at XMP1 or XMP2 even with additional voltage and lots of playing around. I ended up running them at 5200CL32 which was stable. I had similar poor experiences with a Corsair Vengeance kit (also Samsung).
> 
> However, I managed to get hold of some Hynix Team Group sticks yesterday, specifically, FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 and they have booted at both XMP1 and XMP2 with no issues at all. And I have passed hours of TM5 with the 1usmus anta777 profiles.
> 
> It definitely seems (in my case at least) that these Hynix based kits are much more stable than the Samsung ones.


Motherboard? Bios?


----------



## karoc

Alberto_It said:


> Motherboard? Bios?


I've edited my original post to include that information now.


----------



## Alberto_It

karoc said:


> I've edited my original post to include that information now.


Try with 0031 (that I'm using) or 0080 version


----------



## karoc

Alberto_It said:


> Try with 0031 (that I'm using) or 0080 version


Thanks but I already did and had no luck. In fact, I've spent multiple weekends now trying to get the Samsung G.Skill sticks stable, so I think I'll probably just stick with the Team Group ones at this point!


----------



## SuperMumrik

Alberto_It said:


> Try with 0031 (that I'm using) or 0080 version


He got hynix sticks now. Why would he bother with current gen Samsung ic's ever again? 😜


----------



## sblantipodi

Herald said:


> Yeah, mine starts spitting errors at 58.5c just about


There is no IC that have problems running 60/70°C.
If you have instability under 70°C means that you are not stable at all. 
I think that the temperature mith should expire, if you are not stable under 70°C, you are not stable full stop.


----------



## owikh84

Saw this from Facebook...

Kingston DDR5
ETMS = Samsung
ETMM = Micron
ETMH = Hynix









Kingston Fury DDR5 5200 CL40 with Hynix chips ! - Overclocking.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Do you know this ?
Is it a good option?









XPG LANCER RGB DDR5 Desktop Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 6000 MHz CL40-40-40 | RGB w/ Black Heatsink - 2PK | RAM Upgrade | PMIC + ECC - Intex XMP 3.0 Compatible


XPG is home to those looking for the best gaming experience through our top of the line PC products such as Gaming Laptops, SSD, Memory, Peripherals, and PC Components.




shop.xpg.com


----------



## Xeq54

RobertoSampaio said:


> Do you know this ?
> Is it a good option?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XPG LANCER RGB DDR5 Desktop Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 6000 MHz CL40-40-40 | RGB w/ Black Heatsink - 2PK | RAM Upgrade | PMIC + ECC - Intex XMP 3.0 Compatible
> 
> 
> XPG is home to those looking for the best gaming experience through our top of the line PC products such as Gaming Laptops, SSD, Memory, Peripherals, and PC Components.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.xpg.com


Got them a week ago with Hynix chips. Runs fine at 6200 CL30. Pretty good ram.

But many have pointed out that newer batches come with samsung chips so it is not certain what you will get.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I didn't find it in the Asus memory support page...
So I bought this one...



https://gzhls.at/blob/ldb/7/9/2/b/8624ba4a9eabed920b690c3e6ee7046c99ab.pdf



Waiting to arrive...


----------



## Muad_Dib69

ROG Strix z690A Gaming WiFi WHEa 17 Errors - Page 4


Swapped my fully functioning 3090RTX, 9900K, Z390 Gigabyte Designare setup for a brand new Z690 and 12900K rig. After swapping all components over to the Gaming Wifi MOBO and 12900k combo, install WIN 11 and I get thousands of WHEA errors for ven_8086&dev_ 460d&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_02 I...



rog.asus.com





For people with random crash, do you have this error in event viewer?


----------



## 7empe

Howdy!

New day, new OC. TM5, Kharhu and GSAT stable.




















TxVDD same as VDD.

Weird things happens when going with SA to around of the auto values (1.25V-1.35V). It is much easier in my case to stabilize using SA at 0.95V for 6200C30 and 0.98-0.99V for 6600C36.


----------



## Forsaken1

GtiJason said:


> Oh my ! Looks like it's time to order the APEX, was waiting on Aqua OC and Dark but this price is crazy and EVGA Classy is already like $630 so Dark will likely be more than Apex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASRock Z690 AQUA OC LGA 1700 DDR5 Intel Z690 SATA 6Gb/s Extended ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy ASRock Z690 AQUA OC LGA 1700 DDR5 Intel Z690 SATA 6Gb/s Extended ATX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2543746


Pricing ridiculous this round on all boards.
Ascock can kiss my ass and all these other greedy corporations👍.


----------



## karoc

karoc said:


> I have a kit of F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K which I could not get stable at XMP1 or XMP2 even with additional voltage and lots of playing around. I ended up running them at 5200CL32 which was stable. I had similar poor experiences with a Corsair Vengeance kit (also Samsung).
> 
> However, I managed to get hold of some Hynix Team Group sticks yesterday, specifically, FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 and they have booted at both XMP1 and XMP2 with no issues at all. And I have passed hours of TM5 with the 1usmus anta777 profiles.
> 
> It definitely seems (in my case at least) that these Hynix based kits are much more stable than the Samsung ones.
> 
> EDIT: I'm using a Z690 APEX with BIOS 9901. Tried various different bios versions and couldn't get the Samsung's stable at their rated speeds though.


Following on from this previous post. For no obvious reason the Hynix sticks are now failing TM5 runs running with the same XMP2 profile they passed with yesterday! I thought it was temperature related as I tested with a fan yesterday so added a fan again but to no avail.

This is really frustrating. Still, they do seem more stable than the Samsung sticks were so will persist.


----------



## opt33

karoc said:


> Following on from this previous post. For no obvious reason the Hynix sticks are now failing TM5 runs running with the same XMP2 profile they passed with yesterday! I thought it was temperature related as I tested with a fan yesterday so added a fan again but to no avail.
> 
> This is really frustrating. Still, they do seem more stable than the Samsung sticks were so will persist.


Wonder if the on-die error-correction code on DDR5 is masking some errors while running on edge of stability for 1.5 hours using TM5...but eventually errors are not caught. Whereas with DDR4 errors would show. Shame we dont have software (at least not yet) for detecting corrected errors like whea logger for cpus.


----------



## GtiJason

Cheap-ish Hynix DDR5 at Newegg






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com


----------



## schuldig

Forsaken1 said:


> Appears Hynix.Delivery mid February…….


Arrived in Germany and the price is fair. Hope you get the same deals in your country and thanks for the advice


----------



## owikh84

schuldig said:


> Arrived in Germany and the price is fair. Hope you get the same deals in your country and thanks for the advice
> 
> View attachment 2543964


It is ~ 358euro/400usd in my country of Malaysia here, many stocks available since few weeks ago and nobody buying it LOL. My 5600C40 was bought at 360usd, not sure will I see any difference in terms of OC performance compared to the 6000C40 kit.


----------



## schuldig

owikh84 said:


> It is ~ 358euro/400usd in my country of Malaysia here, many stocks available since few weeks ago and nobody buying it LOL. My 5600C40 was bought at 360usd, not sure will I see any difference in terms of OC performance compared to the 6000C40 kit.


damn, before the holidays we saw prices for 32GB 6400 rise to ~1000€ and even the praised Dell Sticks cost 500€ rn.
for what is essentially the current top bin this is a really good price in comparison to the best DDR4 B-Dies that cost 320€.
I'd say you more than deserve the lower prices when considering cost of living and income.

Are you satisfied with the performance?


----------



## owikh84

schuldig said:


> damn, before the holidays we saw prices for 32GB 6400 rise to ~1000€ and even the praised Dell Sticks cost 500€ rn.
> for what is essentially the current top bin this is a really good price in comparison to the best DDR4 B-Dies that cost 320€.
> I'd say you more than deserve the lower prices when considering cost of living and income.
> 
> Are you satisfied with the performance?


I just received it few days ago and it is my first Hynix. All I can say is that it overclocks easier than my Samsung 6000C36 kit from G.Skill. So far my experience with this Hynix on the ROG Extreme:

6000 CL32 1T TM5 stable, but one of the sticks reported 63.8c max temp twice (bad temp sensor? I don't know why but on XMP it was fine though).
6200 CL30 1T bootable, but not stable so I stopped there, may revisit later
6400 CL30 2T testing still underway


----------



## RobertoSampaio

schuldig said:


> Arrived in Germany and the price is fair. Hope you get the same deals in your country and thanks for the advice
> 
> View attachment 2543964


I bought the same... It will arrive tomorrow...


----------



## Stockman

7empe said:


> Weird things happens when going with SA to around of the auto values (1.25V-1.35V). It is much easier in my case to stabilize using SA at 0.95V for 6200C30 and 0.98-0.99V for 6600C36.


I keep seeing this reported and have experienced the same. Do we know why in this case lower voltage results in greater stability? Is it related to temperature?


----------



## owikh84

owikh84 said:


> Saw this from Facebook...
> 
> Kingston DDR5
> ETMS = Samsung
> ETMM = Micron
> ETMH = Hynix
> View attachment 2543798
> 
> 
> Kingston Fury DDR5 5200 CL40 with Hynix chips ! - Overclocking.com


Guys, I just checked with my local retailer regarding Kingston Fury DDR5.
Seems like Kingston has started switching to Samsung ICs on the 5600C40 model.
But the 6000C40 is still based on Hynix. Soon all will probably be Samsung?

5600C40: Samsung KF556C40BBK2-32










6000C40: Hynix KF560C40BBK2-32


----------



## satinghostrider

Just got my 6000C40 Kingston Kit. But the other 5600C40 Kit seems to be Samsung.

Yet to try it on my system but the labelling seems to be Hynix as per @owikh84 for my 6000C40 kit so far.

*HYNIX :*










*SAMSUNG :*


----------



## karoc

opt33 said:


> Wonder if the on-die error-correction code on DDR5 is masking some errors while running on edge of stability for 1.5 hours using TM5...but eventually errors are not caught. Whereas with DDR4 errors would show. Shame we dont have software (at least not yet) for detecting corrected errors like whea logger for cpus.


Maybe. Like you say, really hard to know isn't it. None of this truly feels like it's ready for public use does it?

On a related note, I re-tested last night and everything came back fine again. I plan to run some tests again today. If I have issues again, I might try locking in the MC VDD and VCCSA voltages to avoid any fluctuations as I think they're currently on AUTO. As part of the testing last night, I also picked up the latest beta bios from HWBOT to try, so maybe that's having some sort of impact! Time will tell I guess


----------



## neurokirurgi

@Falkentyne I took a closer look at my Alseye RAM fan and the fans are definitely user replaceable, they attach to the mounting bracket using normal Philips head screws. The rubber cover should also be reusable provided I cut a hole in it to remove the cable of the stock fans. But I don't think it's necessary to even use it.

I ordered two Noctua NF-A6 60x60x25 PWM fans, which should arrive on Monday. I think there's way more performance to be had from this cooler using better fans, the Alseye fans really need 2500-3000 RPM in order to really have an effect, and that's when they start to get loud. Mine also have this metallic sidenote to them that's really grinding my gears.


----------



## tw33k

I finally managed to get my hands on some DDR5. Now I just need a cooler and I can finally fire it up.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Kingston FURY 32GB KIT DDR5 6000MHz CL40 Beast Black | alza.de


Kingston bietet auf dem Markt einen neuen RAM des Typs DIMM, der besonders für Hochleistungscomputer konzipiert ist. Kingston FURY 32GB KIT DDR5 6000MHz CL40 Beast Black gehört zum Steckplatz des Typs DDR5. Das gesamte Set, das aus 2 Speichern zusammengesetzt ist, besitzt eine Gesamtkapazität...




m.alza.de


----------



## Spock-_-

Well in my effort to keep pushing my Gskill Samsung kits I finally (as a complete memory OC'ing noob) bricked my Windows OS last night. An unstable timing that was good enough to boot into, boot looped on me before i could catch it after I walked away while benchmarking, and it caused errors during a "Windows Startup Recovery" completely destroying the OS.

Last stable, with running TM5 without errors I was able to do was 6200Mhz CL30, subs at 34-34-64

It was during testing @ 6400mhz with same timings I ran into the problem.

So that's frustrating. But part of the game, and learned some lessons on what _not _to do 😅 (gotta remind myself to disable windows auto repair tonight)

One positive though, I was actually having functioning results above 6000mhz, instead of just no boot what-so-ever.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Spock-_- said:


> Well in my effort to keep pushing my Gskill Samsung kits I finally (as a complete memory OC'ing noob) bricked my Windows OS last night. An unstable timing that was good enough to boot into, boot looped on me before i could catch it after I walked away while benchmarking, and it caused errors during a "Windows Startup Recovery" completely destroying the OS.
> 
> Last stable, with running TM5 without errors I was able to do was 6200Mhz CL30, subs at 34-34-64
> 
> It was during testing @ 6400mhz with same timings I ran into the problem.
> 
> So that's frustrating. But part of the game, and learned some lessons on what _not _to do 😅 (gotta remind myself to disable windows auto repair tonight)
> 
> One positive though, I was actually having functioning results above 6000mhz, instead of just no boot what-so-ever.


I always have at least 5 or 10 macrium backups... 
Never had to reinstall Windows after this procedure.


----------



## Spock-_-

RobertoSampaio said:


> I always have at least 5 or 10 macrium backups...
> Never had to reinstall Windows after this procedure.



I had never heard of this software before. Thanks for the heads up. I will certainly look into this tonight.


----------



## asdkj1740

msi releases latest bios today
force / carbon / pro p / tomahawk / torpedo / unify i 





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Spock-_- said:


> I had never heard of this software before. Thanks for the heads up. I will certainly look into this tonight.


It's free and works very well...

I dont know how it do its magic... But it takes a snapshot of the disk with the system running... and when you restore the image, all is perfect.

My life changed after start using it... LOLOL






Reflect v8


Clone hard drives and SSDs with Macrium's powerful cloning software for Windows, designed to make the process of moving data from one location to another easy and secure.




www.macrium.com


----------



## Spock-_-

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's free and works very well...
> 
> I dont know how it do its magic... But it takes a snapshot of the disk with the system running... and when you restore the image, all is perfect.
> 
> My life changed after start using it... LOLOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reflect v8
> 
> 
> Clone hard drives and SSDs with Macrium's powerful cloning software for Windows, designed to make the process of moving data from one location to another easy and secure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.macrium.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544062
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544067
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544068
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544065



That's amazing. Thank you so much for this. This is a literal game changer for me, and being free is just the cherry on top!


----------



## Simkin

Have been in contact with G.Skill support, and it seems like the new F5-6000*J*3636F1G2X should be Hynix

_



6000U has lower DRAM Voltage and subtiming, whereas 6000J is 1.35V with a higher tRAS.
Chip type is not guaranteed, however the J model should be Hynix.

Click to expand...

_I have one set on my way, hopefully will get them on monday so i can verify it then.


----------



## orbitech

Guys what did we say might be the fault of sometimes having ctd while on main menu of a game for a long time? I can play for hours w/o issues but I have observed it happened it two games while I left it for quite some time on main menu paused


----------



## lolhaxz

Spock-_- said:


> Well in my effort to keep pushing my Gskill Samsung kits I finally (as a complete memory OC'ing noob) bricked my Windows OS last night. An unstable timing that was good enough to boot into, boot looped on me before i could catch it after I walked away while benchmarking, and it caused errors during a "Windows Startup Recovery" completely destroying the OS.
> 
> Last stable, with running TM5 without errors I was able to do was 6200Mhz CL30, subs at 34-34-64
> 
> It was during testing @ 6400mhz with same timings I ran into the problem.
> 
> So that's frustrating. But part of the game, and learned some lessons on what _not _to do 😅 (gotta remind myself to disable windows auto repair tonight)
> 
> One positive though, I was actually having functioning results above 6000mhz, instead of just no boot what-so-ever.


The smarter play is to disable auto boot into your primary operating system (you can still force boot it from BIOS when you are ready) ... always boot into memtest86 (USB stick, or built into bios on some boards) and do Test 6 (or Test 5 and Test 6 for DDR5) a few times when you are making significant changes; you can do custom test with just these tests (takes a few minutes to run) ... when you know you don't have 1000's of errors per second, then you can boot into Windows .

Although I never bothered, you can also I believe define a custom test file on USB stick to auto start the Test 6 so you don't have to cancel, select tests, start again, every single time.

Fingers crossed, but in all my years, i have never bricked a windows install due to memory overclocking.

It's kind of pointless booting into your OS if you experience even 1 error... I mean unless you are purposely doing some kind of frequency/timing queen type thing.

Im guessing you would have to be suffering ridiculous error rate for it to corrupt Windows, ie, it's going to show up _instantly _except for some very bespoke temperature related timings.


----------



## matique

asdkj1740 said:


> msi releases latest bios today
> force / carbon / pro p / tomahawk / torpedo / unify i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beta/MP - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Any changelog for it?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know why e-core effective clock does not work? The requested clock shows the one set in bios but effective clock is 40mhz or so. Do I need to reinstall window?


----------



## Spock-_-

lolhaxz said:


> The smarter play is to disable auto boot into your primary operating system (you can still force boot it from BIOS when you are ready) ... always boot into memtest86 (USB stick, or built into bios on some boards) and do Test 6 (or Test 5 and Test 6 for DDR5) a few times when you are making significant changes; you can do custom test with just these tests (takes a few minutes to run) ... when you know you don't have 1000's of errors per second, then you can boot into Windows .
> 
> Although I never bothered, you can also I believe define a custom test file on USB stick to auto start the Test 6 so you don't have to cancel, select tests, start again, every single time.
> 
> Fingers crossed, but in all my years, i have never bricked a windows install due to memory overclocking.
> 
> It's kind of pointless booting into your OS if you experience even 1 error... I mean unless you are purposely doing some kind of frequency/timing queen type thing.
> 
> Im guessing you would have to be suffering ridiculous error rate for it to corrupt Windows, ie, it's going to show up _instantly _except for some very bespoke temperature related timings.



Yeah I definitely learned the hard way on this one lol


----------



## ivans89

RobertoSampaio said:


> I always have at least 5 or 10 macrium backups...
> Never had to reinstall Windows after this procedure.


Same here. An Backup with fresh W11 and all tools i need for ram oc. The backup needs like 1 minute, with my 10G network.


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> Any changelog for it?


no.


----------



## 7empe

Howdy,

Below is the next OC of 6666 CL36 (stick details on the pictures). Samsung's are not so bad if you ask me 

At the very bottom you can find the chart with scaling of voltages and timings from the default XMP profile. As you can see, auto voltages for MC and SA are far too high. Even Asus' Extreme profiles for Samsung sets these voltages like 1.34V and 1.25V respecitevely. My 12900KF is SP88, so nothing special and tolerates low voltages much better during memory OC.

I can get to Windows with 6800 and 6933 too, not stable (yet?). I can POST with 7000.

VDD/Q switching frequencies are on auto. What's intresting is that from 6400 up mobo switches from the lowest to the highest frequency available. Did not try to play with this yet.

As far as I can tell, 1T works like a charm with very tight primes at 6200. 6400 and 1T is a boot-to-boot lottery in my case.


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Below is the next OC of 6666 CL36 (stick details on the pictures). Samsung's are not so bad if you ask me
> 
> At the very bottom you can find the chart with scaling of voltages and timings from the default XMP profile. As you can see, auto voltages for MC and SA are far too high. Even Asus' Extreme profiles for Samsung sets these voltages like 1.34V and 1.25V respecitevely. My 12900KF is SP88, so nothing special and tolerates low voltages much better during memory OC.
> 
> I can get to Windows with 6800 and 6933 too, not stable (yet?). I can POST with 7000.
> 
> VDD/Q switching frequencies are on auto. What's intresting is that from 6400 up mobo switches from the lowest to the highest frequency available. Did not try to play with this yet.
> 
> As far as I can tell, 1T works like a charm with very tight primes at 6200. 6400 and 1T is a boot-to-boot lottery in my case.
> 
> View attachment 2544148
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544149
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544151


Your result looks to be identical to 6000c32 profile on Apex in therm of performance, so it's still bad compared to Hynix.


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> Your result looks to be identical to 6000c32 profile on Apex in therm of performance, so it's still bad compared to Hynix.


Cause Hynix can do 1T high freq with lower CL. Can you point me to 6000c32 bench results you compare with?


----------



## asdkj1740

bunch of gskill 5600j and 6000j arrived in local stores, they charge them even higher than 5600u and 6000u...
~40usd markup...
higher voltage / higher timings, higher pricing

are we (buyers of 5600u & 6000u) a joke to you?
don't tell me there is still no thermal pad for pmic.


----------



## jeiselramos

7empe said:


> Cause Hynix can do 1T high freq with lower CL. Can you point me to 6000c32 bench results you compare with?


Nothing special









Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sblantipodi

LOL








Extreme Overclocker Demonstrates How Entry-Level DDR5-4800 Memory Is Just As Good As Expensive DDR5-6000+ Kits


Extreme Overclocker, Rauf, has demonstrated how cheap Micron DDR5 memory kits can perform just as well as high-end Samsung & Hynix kits.




wccftech.com


----------



## 7empe

jeiselramos said:


> Nothing special
> View attachment 2544164
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


Thanks. So, uhm... so @Nizzen I do not agree with your statement "Your result looks to be identical to 6000c32 profile on Apex in therm of performance":


----------



## matique

7empe said:


> Howdy,
> 
> Below is the next OC of 6666 CL36 (stick details on the pictures). Samsung's are not so bad if you ask me
> 
> At the very bottom you can find the chart with scaling of voltages and timings from the default XMP profile. As you can see, auto voltages for MC and SA are far too high. Even Asus' Extreme profiles for Samsung sets these voltages like 1.34V and 1.25V respecitevely. My 12900KF is SP88, so nothing special and tolerates low voltages much better during memory OC.
> 
> I can get to Windows with 6800 and 6933 too, not stable (yet?). I can POST with 7000.
> 
> VDD/Q switching frequencies are on auto. What's intresting is that from 6400 up mobo switches from the lowest to the highest frequency available. Did not try to play with this yet.
> 
> As far as I can tell, 1T works like a charm with very tight primes at 6200. 6400 and 1T is a boot-to-boot lottery in my case.
> 
> View attachment 2544148
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544149
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544151


Agreed, while I do feel like i'm coping with samsung + would love to get some good hynix kits, Samsung ain't too bad! Looks like we settled with simlilar-ish timings. Main difference after using both strix-i and unify-i is that the unify doesn't need as high a voltage to stabilise. i.e. I only need 1.38v while you need 1.48.


----------



## sugi0lover

got the best binned Hynix 4800 CL40 stick from my friend and combined my best one.
I tried SA voltage bet 1.20v ~ 1.35v and no luck. tried 1.05v and it works.
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.4Ghz , E 4.2Ghz, Cache 4.3Ghz) 
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6800Mhz-28-39-39-28-320-2T 
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901) 
○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.650v / MC 1.300v / SA 1.050v 
(VDD/VDDQ drops to 1.575v at TM5) 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP88 - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 0811
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)

*2x16GB DDR5-6200 30-37-37-28-1T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.325v







*


----------



## Lord Alzov

sugi0lover said:


> got the best binned Hynix 4800 CL40 stick from my friend and combined my best one.
> I tried SA voltage bet 1.20v ~ 1.35v and no luck. tried 1.05v and it works.
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.4Ghz , E 4.2Ghz, Cache 4.3Ghz)
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6800Mhz-28-39-39-28-320-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)
> ○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX 1.650v / MC 1.300v / SA 1.050v
> (VDD/VDDQ drops to 1.575v at TM5)
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


Good! I try now 7000.


----------



## Talon2016

G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR5 SDRAM DDR5 6000 Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com

Just grabbed these on Newegg, they should be Hynix right? "J" model is supposed to be SK Hynix if I remember correctly. If not I suppose I can just return them unopened.


----------



## opt33

New beta bios msi unify x fixed all sleep/downclocking issues and samsung ram more stable. 6600 36-38-38 easy to get TM5 stable, this run with 1.43 vdd/vddq, 1.20 cpu vdd2. Dont know if it requires that much voltage yet, because after I updated bios and realized I could run 6800 short periods of tm5 but not fully stable, forgot about 6400 and 6600. But 6600 works well. And somehow never saw 6666 in bios til just saw the postings.


----------



## Carillo

Talon2016 said:


> G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR5 SDRAM DDR5 6000 Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com
> 
> Just grabbed these on Newegg, they should be Hynix right? "J" model is supposed to be SK Hynix if I remember correctly. If not I suppose I can just return them unopened.


E=hynix..Based on the information I got , g.skill now works exclusively with Samsung. Only engineering kits from g.skill had Hynix


----------



## Simkin

Carillo said:


> E=hynix..Based on the information I got , g.skill now works exclusively with Samsung. Only engineering kits from g.skill had Hynix


From G.Skill support; i Sent them an email and asked.

_



6000U has lower DRAM Voltage and subtiming, whereas 6000J is 1.35V with a higher tRAS.
Chip type is not guaranteed, however the J model should be Hynix.

Click to expand...

_I will get a J set on monday, so will see then.


----------



## Talon2016

Carillo said:


> E=hynix..Based on the information I got , g.skill now works exclusively with Samsung. Only engineering kits from g.skill had Hynix


I have E model already and they are Samsung.



Simkin said:


> From G.Skill support; i Sent them an email and asked.
> 
> 
> 
> I will get a J set on monday, so will see then.


Thanks for confirming! I should have mine on Tuesday next week but won't be home until Wednesday to get mine to confirm. I will update when I test them out. Really hoping you get SK Hynix as some sort of assurance for me to open them lol.


----------



## opt33

6800c36 TM5 stable 30mins (antaextreme), this is with 1.49vdd/vddq, 1.05 sa, 1.25 cpu vdd2. I can get latency to 49 for benching and can pass 6800c36 tm5 anta/or any others 30 mins with latency 50-51, but passing tm5 pushing latency down to 49 keep getting errors around 8-10 minute mark. Trying to not go above 1.5v for 24/7 on air.


----------



## Simkin

Talon2016 said:


> I have E model already and they are Samsung.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for confirming! I should have mine on Tuesday next week but won't be home until Wednesday to get mine to confirm. I will update when I test them out. Really hoping you get SK Hynix as some sort of assurance for me to open them lol.


I'll respond here as soon as i can confirm its Hynix (or get disappointed )


----------



## sblantipodi

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP88 - Stock
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 0070
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-6200 30-37-37-28-1T
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.325v
> View attachment 2544179
> *


very cool result, are you confident that 1.325V will not fry/deteriorate your CPU iMC in the short term?


----------



## asdkj1740

sblantipodi said:


> very cool result, are you confident that 1.325V will not fry/deteriorate your CPU iMC in the short term?


seriously? 
i was going to ask about 1.55v tx vddq.


----------



## bscool

asdkj1740 said:


> seriously?
> i was going to ask about 1.55v tx vddq.


"tx vddq is fivr'ed , its almost impossible to use too much voltage on fivr rails since they trip early. you're pretty much maxed out at that 1.6v, theres a vdroop and you're more doing around 1.55v real. fivr rails never ever really do much above 1.6v even when you raise vccin to 3v lol no matter what u set.
theoretically this should be the same level as dram voltage but in practice it may not always be the case plus the fact that one may do higher dram voltage than 1.6v which is more than its capable of . what is your dram voltage?"

Source









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


I'm seeing much better stability at 1.6v. I have no idea if this is a safe voltage - kind of hoping to hear from someone that knows more (@shamino1978 ?), but this has greatly enhanced stability. tx vddq is fivr'ed , its almost impossible to use too much voltage on fivr rails since they trip...




www.overclock.net


----------



## centvalny

7200 with relax timings.
Bios 0080, will find test mem sets next...


----------



## opt33

I think my asus hero also did this, but msi unifyx loading presets is bugged when loading from stock settings or after clearing cmos/stock, anyone else have this?

sequence = bsod every time
1) load optimum defaults, save and exit go back into bios without loading windows (can also clear cmos and then load optimum defaults doesnt matter)
2) load preset (can even be 6000 c36 with 1.4 volts that could run memtest stable for a year), and save and exit and let it go to windows it bsods every time before getting to windows. It also powers down first. 

To avoid bsods, if I manually enter exact same settings, never bsods also just trains and boots up without powering down first. 

Or I can load memory preset, save and exit, reenter bios and change any single variable like change vdd from 1.38 to 1.37 then load windows no problem. Also cold boot, zero issues.

Somehow presets are not fully baked or do not train properly vs manually entering exact same settings, when loading preset after load optimum defaults or clearing cmos.

edit: actually loading ddr5 voltages first, save/exit, then enter memory preset works perfectly as well, like voltages are not properly applied in time for training using preset.


----------



## Falkentyne

opt33 said:


> I think my asus hero also did this, but msi unifyx loading presets is bugged when loading from stock settings or after clearing cmos/stock, anyone else have this?
> 
> sequence = bsod every time
> 1) load optimum defaults, save and exit go back into bios without loading windows (can also clear cmos and then load optimum defaults doesnt matter)
> 2) load preset (can even be 6000 c36 with 1.4 volts that could run memtest stable for a year), and save and exit and let it go to windows it bsods every time before getting to windows. It also powers down first.
> 
> To avoid bsods, if I manually enter exact same settings, never bsods also just trains and boots up without powering down first.
> 
> Or I can load memory preset, save and exit, reenter bios and change any single variable like change vdd from 1.38 to 1.37 then load windows no problem. Also cold boot, zero issues.
> 
> Somehow presets are not fully baked or do not train properly vs manually entering exact same settings, when loading preset after load optimum defaults or clearing cmos.


This is a common problem on some boards. This can even happen on Asus boards.

This is caused by certain resistances, skews, terminations, etc NOT being set when a profile is read from a CMOS clear, and only being set when values are keyed in manually (e.g. one value affecting another value, or--even worse--some values being set that are not even exposed in the BIOS at all!). Somebody a few years ago discussed something like this and discovered that some "Auto" values that are not part of regular primary/secondary/tertiary RAM timings ended up getting set to different values if a saved profile is loaded after a full CMOS clear, versus if XMP is loaded and then the RAM timings entered in manually. This can be avoided of course by entering every single available RAM auxiliary and slope/skew timing manually, but that's impossible if you don't know what the "Auto" value is actually setting.


----------



## Forsaken1

Gold cup 4 Xtreme Systems team.


----------



## sugi0lover

Without bclk oc, direct boot 7000Mhz CL30 from bios.
At the latter part of video, I showed my actual bios setup for this setup.
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7000Mhz-30-40-40-28-320-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)









[Edit] Aida64 added


----------



## Forsaken1

^^^^^^
Lets see performance at 7000.If its not there its irrelevant at this point bro. 
Maybe e pen


----------



## sugi0lover

Forsaken1 said:


> ^^^^^^
> Lets see performance at 7000.If its not there its irrelevant at this point bro.
> Maybe e pen


The original post edied to show Aida64 Bench.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Has anyone found out yet if the new Gskill F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK (with a 'J' and 36 36 36 96) are Hynix? I have the chance right now to buy one of those F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK (with a J) nut I am not spending another $600 on another Samsung chip. Hynix is so difficult to find here (Eastern Canada)? I tried to buy a pair of HMCG78MEBUA081N - Hynix, from some dealership in the US but the guy asked for $1400US. Contact me if you know of any, and I mean any DDR5 Hynix available at a decent price?


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted at PC forum.

12900k(p53,e41,c45) + z690 Hero(Bios 0070) + TeamGroup 6400cl40 to 6600cl32 OC
12900k 1.31v, vdd/vddq 1.55v, sa 1.275v, mc auto
Considering Hero is 4 slot board, I think the result is good.


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> I'll respond here as soon as i can confirm its Hynix (or get disappointed )


We can't wait LOL


----------



## asdkj1740




----------



## Nizzen

Forsaken1 said:


> ^^^^^^
> Lets see performance at 7000.If its not there its irrelevant at this point bro.
> Maybe e pen


Did *sugi0lover ever posted a e-peen result?

No *


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> Are most ddr4 ram waterblocks compatible with ddr5 and if so which ones on Amazon so you recommend ;p?


EK works, but it dosen`t cover 100% of the IC. It cools enough though.


----------



## Xeq54

Finally managed something nice and stable. Adata Lancer (Hynix 6000CL40) @ *6200 CL30* and cooled by Corsair Dominator DRAM cooler, runs pretty hot still, temps reached 67 celsius.

VDD/VDDQ/TX/IMC
1.5/1.4/1.4/1.35

Did not really optimise the voltage yet, 1.45/1.4 produced error after about 30min of TM5, so I think the voltage can be reduced a little bit.


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Did *sugi0lover ever posted a e-peen result?
> 
> No *


What's e-peen? I am not even familiar with that word.


----------



## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> What's e-peen? I am not even familiar with that word.


Means all show and no go in internet terms.
Not applicable to you. 😎


----------



## asdkj1740

Xeq54 said:


> Finally managed something nice and stable. Adata Lancer (Hynix 6000CL40) @ *6200 CL30* and cooled by Corsair Dominator DRAM cooler, runs pretty hot still, temps reached 67 celsius.
> 
> VDD/VDDQ/TX/IMC
> 1.5/1.4/1.4/1.35
> 
> Did not really optimise the voltage yet, 1.45/1.4 produced error after about 30min of TM5, so I think the voltage can be reduced a little bit.
> 
> View attachment 2544331


it seems under active cooling kits without pmic's thermal pad are almost topped out at ~1.4v if targeting at 50~55c max.


----------



## Vital-uK

12900K memory comparison DDR4 Hynix DJR, Samsung B-die VS DDR5 Micron, Hynix. XMP and OC with timings tuning.


----------



## fortecosi

I am moving slowly up while trying to stick with T1:


----------



## chispy

Guys beware , i have just got word that all G.skill ddr5 new are all Samsung and Micron ICs , none is Hynix. This comes directly from g.skill from a friend at hwbot who's got the direct conections to g.skill. Adata is 50/50 chance and also kingston is also 50/50 chance Samsung or Hynix. ddr5 situation right now it is really , really bad. very rare to find good Hynix mem at the moment as the market is absolutely flooded with garbage Micron and Samsung  .


----------



## J7SC

chispy said:


> Guys beware , i have just got word that all G.skill ddr5 new are all Samsung and Micron ICs , none is Hynix. This comes directly from g.skill from a friend at hwbot who's got the direct conections to g.skill. Adata is 50/50 chance and also kingston is also 50/50 chance Samsung or Hynix. ddr5 situation right now it is really , really bad. very rare to find good Hynix mem at the moment as the market is absolutely flooded with garbage Micron and Samsung  .


I've been looking for some Hynix DDR5 in our regional market here, but next to impossible to ensure...may be take a page from Buildzoid and go for DDR4 4000/4800 / Z690 for the time being


----------



## GtiJason

owikh84 said:


> Saw this from Facebook...
> 
> Kingston DDR5
> ETMS = Samsung
> ETMM = Micron
> ETMH = Hynix
> 
> Kingston Fury DDR5 5200 CL40 with Hynix chips ! - Overclocking.com


This old trick goes way back, here is a post from 2012 at XtremeSystems


----------



## knock

Got a confirmed Hynix Fury 6000 kit coming after being jerked around on a scam Dominator 6200 kit for a few days. 

Looking forward to benching way too much again.


----------



## satinghostrider

fortecosi said:


> I am moving slowly up while trying to stick with T1:


You should be also be able to run the 6000C321T preset easily. I'm also on the 5600C36 rams and they were easy to stabilise with the Asus Preset. I needed 1.41VDD/VDDQ 1.40VDDTXQ and 1.3V MC. SA at 0.95v.


----------



## Simkin

chispy said:


> Guys beware , i have just got word that all G.skill ddr5 new are all Samsung and Micron ICs , none is Hynix. This comes directly from g.skill from a friend at hwbot who's got the direct conections to g.skill. Adata is 50/50 chance and also kingston is also 50/50 chance Samsung or Hynix. ddr5 situation right now it is really , really bad. very rare to find good Hynix mem at the moment as the market is absolutely flooded with garbage Micron and Samsung  .


Can tell later today if the new 6000J3636 is Samsung, Micron or Hynix. G.Skill support USA said its most likely Hynix. If it's not Hynix I'll just send it back.

There's also a G.Skill 6400 C32 (J kit) kit available here in Norway now.


----------



## asdkj1740

kind of feeling nvidia resizable bar messes with ddr5 stability.


----------



## GtiJason

Very first boot with DDR5 Z690 APEX, Mild OC worked 1st try so ... I like it !


----------



## Simkin

The 6000*J*3636 *is not* Hynix, but Samsung. Atleast my kit, but probably all of them are?

So now we have both 6000U and 6000J with Samsung chips, with different voltage and tRAS.

G.Skill probably found out that 1.3v was not enough on the 6000U kits, and released these - but i dont know.


----------



## Forsaken1

Simkin said:


> The 6000*J*3636 *is not* Hynix, but Samsung. Atleast my kit, but probably all of them are?
> 
> So now we have both 6000U and 6000J with Samsung chips, with different voltage and tRAS.
> 
> G.Skill probably found out that 1.3v was not enough on the 6000U kits, and released these - but i dont know.
> 
> View attachment 2544521


Or a lower bin?See if they boot 6800+.

Edit:Appears new revision intel chipset 05.According to CPUZ.


----------



## bastian

Xeq54 said:


> Finally managed something nice and stable. Adata Lancer (Hynix 6000CL40) @ *6200 CL30* and cooled by Corsair Dominator DRAM cooler, runs pretty hot still, temps reached 67 celsius.
> 
> VDD/VDDQ/TX/IMC
> 1.5/1.4/1.4/1.35
> 
> Did not really optimise the voltage yet, 1.45/1.4 produced error after about 30min of TM5, so I think the voltage can be reduced a little bit.
> 
> View attachment 2544331


I don't know what it is with some of these brands poor cooling. My Corsair Dom Plat 6200 never goes over 50c full load 1.4


----------



## mattxx88

bastian said:


> I don't know what it is with some of these brands poor cooling. My Corsair Dom Plat 6200 never goes over 50c full load 1.4


+1 their heatsink buries the gskill one in comparison (tried both)


----------



## satinghostrider

bastian said:


> I don't know what it is with some of these brands poor cooling. My Corsair Dom Plat 6200 never goes over 50c full load 1.4


That's because the Dominators have PMIC thermal pads while the Gskill one doesn't have it. I for one hate to run active cooling on my rams at 1.4V. Unfortunately since the Gskills don't have thermal pad on PMIC and DDR5 is a sensitive ***** especially on temps, there really is no choice.


----------



## Vlados

hi, does anyone know what overclocking potential hmcg88mebua081n has? it will be the same as the model for 16 gb?


----------



## Simkin

satinghostrider said:


> That's because the Dominators have PMIC thermal pads while the Gskill one doesn't have it. I for one hate to run active cooling on my rams at 1.4V. Unfortunately since the Gskills don't have thermal pad on PMIC and DDR5 is a sensitive *** especially on temps, there really is no choice.


Do you know if the Dominator 6200 are Hynix? Some on reddit said he had Hynix in his.

And do you know if the Team Group Delta kits have thermal pads on PMIC?


----------



## Talon2016

Simkin said:


> The 6000*J*3636 *is not* Hynix, but Samsung. Atleast my kit, but probably all of them are?
> 
> So now we have both 6000U and 6000J with Samsung chips, with different voltage and tRAS.
> 
> G.Skill probably found out that 1.3v was not enough on the 6000U kits, and released these - but i dont know.
> 
> View attachment 2544521


Thanks for confirming. Back to the EGG they go then when they arrive. I think I'm just going to keep my Sammies I already have and wait for some fast 7000+ units that should release over the next year.


----------



## j o e

Is there a brand that I can look out for that has Hynix modules? Or is just a crapshoot


----------



## asdkj1740

j o e said:


> Is there a brand that I can look out for that has Hynix modules? Or is just a crapshoot


dell and hp i guess.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

First power on...

XMP-II




























I'll need some help with RAM...
I'm a noob tuning them... LOLOL


----------



## 7empe

No E-Cores this time. Adaptive voltage with 8C:53x, 5C:54x, 3C:55x (using TVB+1, so it goes up to 56x, 55x and 56x respectively). Cache at 49x.
Ordinary 12900KF SP97 for P-Cores, SP88 in general.









MC voltage is a subject for reduction. SA voltage may go down to 1.25V if I really care.

I was an old fashion overclocker that stuck to the fixed voltage all-core overclocking... but VF, TVB, manual AC/DC loadline adjustments can do miracles indeed... now it's time to append E-Cores to that circus.

Many thanks go to @Falkentyne and @RobertoSampaio for their superb guideliness on the per-core overclocking!


----------



## centvalny

Testing combo chanA0 unlocked renesas pmic green module and chanB0 locked richtek pmic black module.
Both at 6400c40 1.35/1.35/1.225 vdd/vddq/mc
















6666 same settings


----------



## GtiJason

j o e said:


> Is there a brand that I can look out for that has Hynix modules? Or is just a crapshoot


Maybe these I posted a few days ago. As well as Klevv kits as they owned by Essencore aka SK Hynix





Are you a human?







www.newegg.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

RobertoSampaio said:


> First power on...
> 
> XMP-II
> 
> View attachment 2544593
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544594
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544595
> 
> 
> I'll need some help with RAM...
> I'm a noob tuning them... LOLOL


I had occt errors using xmp-ii
I'll try xmp-i


----------



## Nizzen

Ddr5 instability thread; I'm testing green Hynix dell for the first time 😅


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> This seems to be close to the limit for my green dell sticks :/
> At 6400 1T I have to do a major timing drop, but I'll get some new sticks next week =)
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2543402
> View attachment 2543403


I tried 6600 c28 1t. Maybe I was too optimistic 🤣
Is it just me, or do hynix want a bit higher SA?
Samsung is 0.95 SA "at all speeds"

Need to try your settings tomorrow.


----------



## Carillo

So, received a better 12900K today, and wanted to test max speed on my DELL Hynix sticks  
Seems like my old IMC was holding me back 

Asus Apex rev 1.02 ( both 0046 and 0080 bios) 

7733MHZ on air


----------



## bastian

satinghostrider said:


> That's because the Dominators have PMIC thermal pads while the Gskill one doesn't have it. I for one hate to run active cooling on my rams at 1.4V. Unfortunately since the Gskills don't have thermal pad on PMIC and DDR5 is a sensitive *** especially on temps, there really is no choice.


Yeah, glad I went with the Corsairs myself. Not Hynix, but still Samsung is pretty good 5600->6200 easy 34-36-36-76-1T 1.4v.


----------



## jollib

I know this might be reaching but have any one ordered the kingston fury's recently from newegg and got SK Hynix chips instead of the microns. Kingston Fury DDR5


----------



## Stockman

Simkin said:


> Do you know if the Dominator 6200 are Hynix? Some on reddit said he had Hynix in his.
> 
> And do you know if the Team Group Delta kits have thermal pads on PMIC?


I own the below Corsair Dominator kit, if this is what you're referencing. Confirmed mine is Hynix. (Very possible you saw my comment on Reddit 🙂)
*CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 *


----------



## sugi0lover

This is what my friend posted at Korean PC forum based on his experience. I have similar experience myself, so I share his tips here.

*How to deal with various symptoms when overclocking Ram (Intel 12th generation only)*

Q1: Even though it's the same stable value, it's stable or not every time I boot it up.
A1: Turn off the power completely, wait for 5 seconds, then turn it on again,
and if it is still the same, turn off the PSU and turn it on after 5-10 seconds
The residual voltage remaining on the motherboard must be gone.

Q2: The stable value after trying another value got unstable leading to suddenly a blue screen
A2: Turn off the power and turn it on after 5-10 seconds and try again. Still not working -> A1

Q3: I kept entering the blue screen during overclocking, and after resetting the bios, I booted it to default, but the blue screen still appears.
A3: My condolences... Windows needs to be reinstalled

Q4: I'm afraid the windows will be broken
A4: The Windows being broken symptom is caused by disk writing to the OS area in unstable overclock.
The only case in which this happens while overclocking is the check disk entry situation (otherwise, it is impossible to write to the OS area).
If you are expecting the check disk entry, do not be vigilant, and before entering the check disk, immediately turn it off with the reset button to stop it,
and then reset the BIOS -> proceed to the check disk in the default state and proceed to booting.
The check disk entry usually counts about 5 to 10 seconds before starting (golden time).

Q5: It is cumbersome to input a value every time because of the constant initialization.
A5: Save BIOS. There is a save and load function.

Q6: The qcode of the motherboard keeps changing, but the screen does not appear
A6: It's memory training. Don't turn it off, wait. It takes quite a while. If qcode is stopped, press the reset button to turn it off and on a couple of times,
and if the screen still doesn't trun on, reset the bios. The key is to wait for qcode to change and take action when qcode stops, reset or reboot.

Q7: I didn't save the bios, but the qcode is stuck.
A7: If you keep turning it off and on with the reset + power button, and training fails about 3 times, sometimes it boots up as default without clearing the bios value.

Q8: I replaced the RAM, but suddenly I can not boot the BIOS.
A8: Did you hear the click sound while installing the ram? Check the latch.


----------



## TheOnlyGummy

@Stockman With your Corsair kit can you make the xmp 6200 C36 work without touching other settings in the bios? Ty for reply


----------



## centvalny

Apex bios 0080 with mem @ 7200+c32 










Bios settings


----------



## sugi0lover

centvalny said:


> Apex bios 0080 with mem @ 7200+c32
> 
> View attachment 2544648
> 
> 
> Bios settings
> 
> View attachment 2544651


Thanks for sharing the info~
Does VPP Voltage 1.825v & VDD/VDDQ Switching Frequency1.500 help?


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing the info~
> Does VPP Voltage 1.825v & VDD/VDDQ Switching Frequency1.500 help?


msi seems to run high vpp


----------



## bigfootnz

Hero and bios 0070 stable 6400C30, VDD/VDDQ/VDDTX/SA/MC 1.5/1.45/1.5/1.05/1.35, CPU is not OC, not bad for 4 dimm board. If I disable E cores maybe I can bring latency below 50ns



























Now I'm testing if I can get maybe 6600C32 stable. I'm even able to boot in Windows 6600C30 but I think that is too much for Hero.

But what bugs me is that I cannot boot with 1T not even on 6000 with lose timings. I know it is just Hero, but it would be nice just to get in Windows on 1T. Maybe with new BIOS


----------



## centvalny

@sugi0lover, Switchng freq settings help for 7K+ sets. 
Settings already set at 1.5/1.5/.75 since bios 0021 @cstkl1
Vpp also help for high freq ram sets,


----------



## Sayenah

Simkin said:


> Do you know if the Dominator 6200 are Hynix? Some on reddit said he had Hynix in his.
> 
> And do you know if the Team Group Delta kits have thermal pads on PMIC?


check this TEAMGROUP's Exclusive Thermal Module for DDR5 RAMs The Peak of Cooling Technologies-TEAMGROUP

Seems like they do have thermal pads on the PMIC.

I just got my hands on a T-Force Delta 6400 kit and I think it is downright excellent. In fact this RAM kit was the reason I returned my Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme and got a Z690 Apex instead hah! Yes, I can absolutely confirm that these are Hynix kits

also, I started looking into the new Corsair 6400/6200 kits after reading that comment on Reddit as well that these are Hynix kits.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> I tried 6600 c28 1t. Maybe I was too optimistic 🤣
> Is it just me, or do hynix want a bit higher SA?
> Samsung is 0.95 SA "at all speeds"
> 
> Need to try your settings tomorrow.


[email protected] dayli needs some trifecta binning(cpu, ram and mb), but I'm sure you can do a bit better than me..
My IMC seems to crap itself right before @6400 1T ([email protected] is fine).









(just did a verification that tRFCpb 250 is ok)


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> [email protected] dayli needs some trifecta binning(cpu, ram and mb), but I'm sure you can do a bit better than me..
> My IMC seems to crap itself right before @6400 1T ([email protected] is fine).
> 
> View attachment 2544669
> 
> (just did a verification that tRFCpb 250 is ok)


nice. finally somebody else.


----------



## cstkl1

centvalny said:


> @sugi0lover, Switchng freq settings help for 7K+ sets.
> Settings already set at 1.5/1.5/.75 since bios 0021 @cstkl1
> Vpp also help for high freq ram sets,
> View attachment 2544662


i saw ivan msi oc all had 1.9v afaik on auto for 6933 etc. 

i tested on asus. hmm helps hci, causes problem for tm5. so not sure is it a problem with vdd or switching. asus afaik keeps vpp switching auto = 0.75


----------



## asdkj1740

Sayenah said:


> check this TEAMGROUP's Exclusive Thermal Module for DDR5 RAMs The Peak of Cooling Technologies-TEAMGROUP
> 
> Seems like they do have thermal pads on the PMIC.
> 
> I just got my hands on a T-Force Delta 6400 kit and I think it is downright excellent. In fact this RAM kit was the reason I returned my Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme and got a Z690 Apex instead hah! Yes, I can absolutely confirm that these are Hynix kits
> 
> also, I started looking into the new Corsair 6400/6200 kits after reading that comment on Reddit as well that these are Hynix kits.














https://www.hkepc.com/20757/120_%E8%B6%85%E5%BB%A3%E8%A7%92%E7%87%88%E6%95%88Hynix_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92_T-Force_Delta_RGB_DDR5-6000_32GB_Kit


----------



## sblantipodi

asdkj1740 said:


> View attachment 2544672
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hkepc.com/20757/120_%E8%B6%85%E5%BB%A3%E8%A7%92%E7%87%88%E6%95%88Hynix_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92_T-Force_Delta_RGB_DDR5-6000_32GB_Kit


interesting, thanks.
is there a photo like this of the Corsair Dominator DDR5?

I can't find it on google, probably I'm using the wrong search keyword.


----------



## satinghostrider

sblantipodi said:


> interesting, thanks.
> is there a photo like this of the Corsair Dominator DDR5?
> 
> I can't find it on google, probably I'm using the wrong search keyword.


Here you go:



https://www.hkepc.com/20726/Micron_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92DHT_%E6%95%A3%E7%86%B1%E8%A8%AD%E8%A8%88_CORSAIR_Dominator_Platinum_RGB_D5-5200_32GB_Kit


----------



## asdkj1740

sblantipodi said:


> interesting, thanks.
> is there a photo like this of the Corsair Dominator DDR5?
> 
> I can't find it on google, probably I'm using the wrong search keyword.


skullbringer posted it. it has pmic's pad too.


----------



## TheOnlyGummy

satinghostrider said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hkepc.com/20726/Micron_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92DHT_%E6%95%A3%E7%86%B1%E8%A8%AD%E8%A8%88_CORSAIR_Dominator_Platinum_RGB_D5-5200_32GB_Kit


Do you know if for the corsair kits on cpuz you can see the type of chip? or remains empty as in the link you put?


----------



## GtiJason

jollib said:


> I know this might be reaching but have any one ordered the kingston fury's recently from newegg and got SK Hynix chips instead of the microns. Kingston Fury DDR5


Not from Newegg but from Amazon and I ordered them 8 days ago, just recently got them. The 6000 kit will have better chance of being Hynix than the 5600 kit.








Amazon.com: Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 DIMM (Kit of 2) Desktop Memory KF560C40BBK2,Black : Electronics


Amazon.com: Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 DIMM (Kit of 2) Desktop Memory KF560C40BBK2,Black : Electronics



www.amazon.com




I know mine is and another recent purchase by RobertoSampiao was as well








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


The 6000J3636 is not Hynix, but Samsung. Atleast my kit, but probably all of them are? So now we have both 6000U and 6000J with Samsung chips, with different voltage and tRAS. G.Skill probably found out that 1.3v was not enough on the 6000U kits, and released these - but i dont know. Or a...




www.overclock.net


----------



## asdkj1740

gskill 6000u3636e samsung 7000mhz on strix itx....





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旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com


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## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> gskill 6000u3636e samsung 7000mhz on strix itx....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验
> 
> 
> 旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chiphell.com


U and J variants which is the better bin anyone knows?


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## Sayenah

satinghostrider said:


> U and J variants which is the better bin anyone knows?


I have used both kits unfortunately and I think the J was worse binned. Both got sent back. Please take my data point as nothing but an anecdote. Maybe the J variant was just bad in my case.

Just my own perspective: I’d avoid Samsung since Hynix kits are becoming readily available. If you look at eBay, the prices for the T-force delta kits with Hynix ICs are steadily declining; give it a week and eBay bottom-feeders will be desperate to sell at MSRP (same as it happened with the Z5 DDR5)


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## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> Asked Kingston about every 6000mhz Beast kit has Hynix. Got answer today;


These just came through the door  
"ETMH" = SK Hynix


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## Simkin

Sayenah said:


> check this TEAMGROUP's Exclusive Thermal Module for DDR5 RAMs The Peak of Cooling Technologies-TEAMGROUP
> 
> Seems like they do have thermal pads on the PMIC.
> 
> I just got my hands on a T-Force Delta 6400 kit and I think it is downright excellent. In fact this RAM kit was the reason I returned my Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme and got a Z690 Apex instead hah! Yes, I can absolutely confirm that these are Hynix kits
> 
> also, I started looking into the new Corsair 6400/6200 kits after reading that comment on Reddit as well that these are Hynix kits.


I have the Team Group 6400 kit in order, but don't know when it's coming in stock. Is it likely that the Team Group 6200 kit also is Hynix?


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## firezen42

A new beta Bios for MSI Z690 Unify-X is out. Is anyone using this board gonna give it a try and see whether it's better than A12U4? Improving memory compatibility= better memory OC?


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## Muad_Dib69

What is the value that helps to switch to 1T in case it's not even booting? What I should start to modifiy. I'm with ASUS 6000cas32 preset but in 2t, 1.435/1.435/0.96/1.25. Thanks


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## opt33

firezen42 said:


> View attachment 2544691
> 
> A new beta Bios for MSI Z690 Unify-X is out. Is anyone using this board gonna give it a try and see whether it's better than A12U4? Improving memory compatibility= better memory OC?


Thanks for posting, will try A22. A21 fixed sleep bugs, downclocking, few ram issues vs A12. Have 3 stable settings on 2 kits and some failed settings to try.

On A21, below 3 settings tm5 stable 1+ hrs, memtest overnight (6-8hours) no issues gaming/24/7, (all tcl=twcl like samsung kits came), cpu vdd2 1.22
5600c36U kit -- 6200c32T1 with 1.42 vdd/vddq, 54ns latency tCWL32
6000c36U kit -- 6200c32T1 with 1.36 vdd/vddq, 54ns latency tCWL32 (1.42 for tCWL 30, so may as well use CL 30 at 1.45)
6000c36U kit -- 6200c30T1 with 1.45 vdd/vddq, 52-53 ns latency tCWL30 

plenty of failed settings to try including this one
- 6800c36 with 1.5v, 51 ns latency tim5 stable 30min, 1hour but 2 errors memtest first error at ~3hours, tcwl 34


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## satinghostrider

Muad_Dib69 said:


> What is the value that helps to switch to 1T in case it's not even booting? What I should start to modifiy. I'm with ASUS 6000cas32 preset but in 2t, 1.435/1.435/0.96/1.25. Thanks


What board are you using? AFAIK only Apex or 2DIMM boards can do it with an occasional few who can do on their Extreme with a competent IMC CPU.


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## sugi0lover

Single Core Test for Cine 15, 20 & 23.
This was one of the most frequent request to me. 
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) all cores / P Cores 5.6Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40 
○ Ram OC : 6800Mhz-28-39-39-28-320-2T 
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9901)


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## Spock-_-

Quick question from a RAM overclocking noob. Should I be aiming to push tRAS as low as possible, or should I stay at tCL + tRCD as the minimum? 

Thanks!


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## opt33

Spock-_- said:


> Quick question from a RAM overclocking noob. Should I be aiming to push tRAS as low as possible, or should I stay at tCL + tRCD as the minimum?
> 
> Thanks!


I tested single variable changes for performance on multiple benchmarks, ie passmark, geekbench, aida, modding tools.
Lower tras scales (improves performance) as low as I have used 10-12 from tcl, just havent tested further, so no limit that I can see.
twr improves write and lesser degree copy in benchmarks that measure or benefit from write/copy in almost linear progression scaling from 72 to lowest tested of 6, twr to 36 requires no voltage adjustment on mine, lower than 36 requires more volts.
rddl/rdds/ftaw 8/8/32 changing to 4/4/16 improvement clearly seen on aida64 photoworxx


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## Muad_Dib69

satinghostrider said:


> What board are you using? AFAIK only Apex or 2DIMM boards can do it with an occasional few who can do on their Extreme with a competent IMC CPU.


I have the Formula


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## snakeeyes111

68001t on Unify X. Trying to get better latency atm and full karhu stabilty. 1h karhu passed atm.


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## Simkin

Got another mail from g.skill, and they now say that no DDR5 modules from them (for now) will have Hynix chips due to "compatibility and performance reasons" ....what ever that means.


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## sblantipodi

On my Asus board using 4x16 sticks of Samsung memory I have seen that it easyer to boot at 5GHz than 4.8GHz
4.8GHz seems very hard to boot, once booted it's completely stable.

Is this a problem of Asus boards, are there someone who is experiencing a similar behaviour.
It's pretty strange than a higher frequency is easyer to boot than a lower one.


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## opt33

snakeeyes111 said:


> 68001t on Unify X. Trying to get better latency atm and full karhu stabilty. 1h karhu passed atm.


I assume hynix given 6800c32 cwl28.


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## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> Got another mail from g.skill, and they now say that no DDR5 modules from them (for now) will have Hynix chips due to "compatibility and performance reasons" ....what ever that means.


I ordered G.skill 6400c32, and I wondering what kind of IC they are. Must be pretty good Samsung when they "promise" 6400c32 xmp


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## TickTockOverclock

Trying to decide on a kit for my 12900K build, has anyone been able to reliable squeeze a stable OC out of Corsair's kits?

I've been looking at the 5600c36 (CMT32GX5M2X5600C36) hoping that I could maybe get it stable up to 6000c36. Is that unrealistic with these? I saw previously back in the thread users posting they were Micron, but actually have been shipping with Samsung Bs.


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## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> I ordered G.skill 6400c32, and I wondering what kind of IC they are. Must be pretty good Samsung when they "promise" 6400c32 xmp


Most likely Samsung, Here is the mail from g.skill.



> Hello
> 
> I have confirmed with the product team that Hynix chips will not be released yet due to compatibility and performance reasons at this time. So as of now the J kits will not have any Hynix chips.
> 
> Best Regards
> GSKILL SUPPORT


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## asdkj1740

Simkin said:


> Got another mail from g.skill, and they now say that no DDR5 modules from them (for now) will have Hynix chips due to "compatibility and performance reasons" ....what ever that means.


ridiculous.
they just reached 8888c88 by 6000u4040e hynix kit.



Nizzen said:


> I ordered G.skill 6400c32, and I wondering what kind of IC they are. Must be pretty good Samsung when they "promise" 6400c32 xmp


supported. please buy these samsung kits. this is the only way for us to get hynix kit when they ran out of all good samsung dies.


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## snakeeyes111

Finaly done!


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## knock

Every Fury Beast 6000 kit I've seen is Hynix, including the kit a seller was nice enough to test for me. 6666 C30 2T 1.55v Geekbench3 stable but not sure of his IMC quality or MC voltage.

There was a NIB Tachyon on eBay that went for a ridiculously low price yesterday so now own one.


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## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> Most likely Samsung, Here is the mail from g.skill.


Luumi said to me it must be 100% Hynix 😅. Guess we'll have to wait and see again 🤣


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## sblantipodi

TickTockOverclock said:


> Trying to decide on a kit for my 12900K build, has anyone been able to reliable squeeze a stable OC out of Corsair's kits?
> 
> I've been looking at the 5600c36 (CMT32GX5M2X5600C36) hoping that I could maybe get it stable up to 6000c36. Is that unrealistic with these? I saw previously back in the thread users posting they were Micron, but actually have been shipping with Samsung Bs.


I have that kit and uses Samsung.
I can easily achieve 6GHzC36 with that kit, if I use only two sticks.


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## warbucks

SuperMumrik said:


> These just came through the door
> "ETMH" = SK Hynix
> 
> View attachment 2544689


I just ordered this kit. Fingers crossed it's hynix.


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## opt33

Nizzen said:


> I ordered G.skill 6400c32, and I wondering what kind of IC they are. Must be pretty good Samsung when they "promise" 6400c32 xmp


If it is F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK, DDR5-6400MHz CL32-39-39-102 1.40V, bet just binned samsung. My 6000u samsung will run 6400 cl32-38-38 at 1.40 with tighter than xmp settings, (my 5600u probably not), and earlier posts show F5-6000J 36-36-36-96 1.35v is samsung (maybe the rejects that couldnt do 6400c32-39-39 1.40).


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## TickTockOverclock

sblantipodi said:


> I have that kit and uses Samsung.
> I can easily achieve 6GHzC36 with that kit, if I use only two sticks.


Great, thanks for the reply! After seeing your post and checking, I saw that the 6200 kit literally just restocked on Corsairs own site.

What have you been able to achieve with 4 sticks out of curiosity?


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## knock

TickTockOverclock said:


> Great, thanks for the reply! After seeing your post and checking, I saw that the 6200 kit literally just restocked on Corsairs own site.
> 
> What have you been able to achieve with 4 sticks out of curiosity?


That Corsair kit is tempting. Hate RGB but something about the Dominators is nice.


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## TickTockOverclock

knock said:


> That Corsair kit is tempting. Hate RGB but something about the Dominators is nice.


Oh believe me, I abhor RGB as well, but unfortunately I do have iCue (barf) running to control my big honkin’ 420 AIO and fan hubs.

I almost ordered the GSkill 6000 non-RGB kits since they’re also in stock at the moment on NewEgg. But figured what the hell, I might as well just have iCue turn the RGB off on the Dominators since I already have the app running.


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## knock

TickTockOverclock said:


> Oh believe me, I abhor RGB as well, but unfortunately I do have iCue (barf) running to control my big honkin’ 420 AIO and fan hubs.
> 
> I almost ordered the GSkill 6000 non-RGB kits since they’re also in stock at the moment on NewEgg. But figured what the hell, I might as well just have iCue turn the RGB off on the Dominators since I already have the app running.


That is the first kit I tried to get, turned out the auction was a scam and waiting for a refund currently. Got a Beast 6000 kit a few days ago but seriously considering getting the Dominators.

The only CPU I have coming is an i3-12100F. For 4-Core BCLK benching LOL


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## sugi0lover

New Gskill 6400 CL32 Ram kits can be bought in Korean PC shops.
Price USD 740~ USD 780 (VAT included)
don't know it's Samsung or Hynix yet~ My friend will get it tonight, so I will update!


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## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> New Gskill 6400 CL32 Ram kits can be bought in Korean PC shops.
> Price USD 740~ USD 780 (VAT included)
> don't know it's Samsung or Hynix yet~ My friend will get it tonight, so I will update!
> View attachment 2544785
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544786


Smells like 2nd Gen Samsung NANDs looking at the timing. I might be wrong though.


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## Silent Scone

Carillo said:


> So, received a better 12900K today, and wanted to test max speed on my DELL Hynix sticks
> Seems like my old IMC was holding me back
> 
> Asus Apex rev 1.02 ( both 0046 and 0080 bios)
> 
> 7733MHZ on air
> 
> View attachment 2544618
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544620


Awesome, very nice CPU going by SP Prediction. Thanks for sharing.

As expected, clearly no proclaimed issues with trace impedance between boards stopping users from maximising good chips.


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## Alberto_It

Silent Scone said:


> Awesome, very nice CPU going by SP Prediction. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> As expected, clearly no proclaimed issues with trace impedance between boards stopping users from maximising good chips.


Good morning @Silent Scone, the Samsung memory chips compatibility issue is fine since several beta\experimental bios. Do you know if will be available shortly a stable beta?

Let me explain, on Asus's support portal is still available 0811 version since the end of December. 

Thanks in advance for your answer


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## Stockman

TheOnlyGummy said:


> @Stockman With your Corsair kit can you make the xmp 6200 C36 work without touching other settings in the bios? Ty for reply


Yes, XMP 6200 C36 is plug-and-play on Unify-X with OC 12900k all core 5.2 P/4.1 E/4.4 ring. "Hynix" displays as chip manufacturer in CPUZ.

First thing I did after booting new system was disable Dominator RGB.


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## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> Luumi said to me it must be 100% Hynix 😅. Guess we'll have to wait and see again 🤣


Who knows 😅


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## Simkin

satinghostrider said:


> Smells like 2nd Gen Samsung NANDs looking at the timing. I might be wrong though.


Available her in Norway now also. But still no thermalpads on PMIC i guess?


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## wesley8

Nizzen said:


> Luumi said to me it must be 100% Hynix 😅. Guess we'll have to wait and see again 🤣


No need to wait，20M=100% Hynix.








View attachment 2544800


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## satinghostrider

Simkin said:


> Available her in Norway now also. But still no thermalpads on PMIC i guess?


Not sure someone has to find out once they get their hands on this kit.
Doubt there will be thermalpads on the PMIC for these Gskill kits.


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## neurokirurgi

I think it's ridiculous that they don't have thermal pads on the PMIC. If Kingston and Corsair can manage to equip their kits with pads, so should G.skill.

Margins on these kits are ludicrous as it is, but I guess they had to squeeze out one more dollar per kit by skipping the pads.


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## satinghostrider

neurokirurgi said:


> I think it's ridiculous that they don't have thermal pads on the PMIC. If Kingston and Corsair can manage to equip their kits with pads, so should G.skill.
> 
> Margins on these kits are ludicrous as it is, but I guess they had to squeeze out one more dollar per kit by skipping the pads.


Exactly! Given how sensitive DDR5 is to temps, the pads could have to a bigger extent minimized these heat related stability issues.
The Kingston Fury Kit does not have PMIC pads as well I checked.
But the heatspreader on the top is ventilated so if you actually run an active fan, the air goes directly over the PMIC which works very well.
The problem with Gskill even their non-RGB kits is without PMIC Pads, there is no way for fresh air to go in much less dissipate it out. An aircooler over the RAM can only do so much once you start to push higher and higher.


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## Simkin

wesley8 said:


> No need to wait，20M=100% Hynix.
> View attachment 2544801
> 
> View attachment 2544800


CPUZ screenshot ?


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## sblantipodi

TickTockOverclock said:


> Great, thanks for the reply! After seeing your post and checking, I saw that the 6200 kit literally just restocked on Corsairs own site.
> 
> What have you been able to achieve with 4 sticks out of curiosity?


I'm currently testing 5.0GHz on 4 sticks but my IMC should be a little bit dumb so you can probably do better 😁

In any case, with my not so good IMC, I can do 6GHz very easy on two Samsung sticks.


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## sblantipodi

satinghostrider said:


> Exactly! Given how sensitive DDR5 is to temps, the pads could have to a bigger extent minimized these heat related stability issues.
> The Kingston Fury Kit does not have PMIC pads as well I checked.
> But the heatspreader on the top is ventilated so if you actually run an active fan, the air goes directly over the PMIC which works very well.
> The problem with Gskill even their non-RGB kits is without PMIC Pads, there is no way for fresh air to go in much less dissipate it out. An aircooler over the RAM can only do so much once you start to push higher and higher.


Is the memory IC that sensitive to temperature or it's the PMIC ?

I tried turning my fan off to simulate "summer" 😁 and the RAM stability isn't affected. 
With all fans off my ram goes up to 68°C.

Using Corsair Dominator here.
I think that most temp related instability is due to having ram without a thermal pad on PMIC that goes to crazy high temp

I can't believe that a memory IC is not stable under 60°C but I'm a noob so this is just two cents of a noob for what it worth 😁


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## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> Exactly! Given how sensitive DDR5 is to temps, the pads could have to a bigger extent minimized these heat related stability issues.
> The Kingston Fury Kit does not have PMIC pads as well I checked.
> But the heatspreader on the top is ventilated so if you actually run an active fan, the air goes directly over the PMIC which works very well.
> The problem with Gskill even their non-RGB kits is without PMIC Pads, there is no way for fresh air to go in much less dissipate it out. An aircooler over the RAM can only do so much once you start to push higher and higher.





https://www.hkepc.com/20702/%E9%BB%9E%E8%A7%A3%E4%BF%82_SK_Hynix_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92__Kingston_Fury_Beast_D5-5200_32GB_Kit


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## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> https://www.hkepc.com/20702/%E9%BB%9E%E8%A7%A3%E4%BF%82_SK_Hynix_%E9%A1%86%E7%B2%92__Kingston_Fury_Beast_D5-5200_32GB_Kit
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544808


When I used a led torch to shine through I couldn't see any. Either the pad was very thin and I couldn't see it or it was not on my kit.


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## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> When I used a led torch to shine through I couldn't see any. Either the pad was very thin and I couldn't see it or it was not on my kit.


what frequency and die?


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## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> what frequency and die?


6000C40 kit. Hynix nands.


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## satinghostrider

sblantipodi said:


> Is the memory IC that sensitive to temperature or it's the PMIC ?
> 
> I tried turning my fan off to simulate "summer" 😁 and the RAM stability isn't affected.
> With all fans off my ram goes up to 68°C.
> 
> Using Corsair Dominator here.
> I think that most temp related instability is due to having ram without a thermal pad on PMIC that goes to crazy high temp
> 
> I can't believe that a memory IC is not stable under 60°C but I'm a noob so this is just two cents of a noob for what it worth 😁


I think it's the PMIC. It has to be. Because SPD hub temps once crosses close to 60, it's already flaky. Past 61, TM5 spits out errors like no tomorrow. There are no memory nand temps if I'm not mistaken only SPD hub.


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## SuperMumrik

My Fury 6000(hynix) definitely got thermal pad on the pmic


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## neurokirurgi

@Falkentyne I can warmly recommend these fans, they’re definitely pushing way more air per dB compared to the awful stock Alseye fans.

I decided to keep the rubber cover on since I think it looks better that way. I just wish I made a better incision in order to allow the cables to get through. The bending of the cover kind of sticks out in the pics, but I don’t care that much when it’s inside the computer under the desk.


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## Simkin

neurokirurgi said:


> View attachment 2544846
> 
> View attachment 2544847
> 
> 
> @Falkentyne I can warmly recommend these fans, they’re definitely pushing way more air per dB compared to the awful stock Alseye fans.
> 
> I decided to keep the rubber cover on since I think it looks better that way. I just wish I made a better incision in order to allow the cables to get through. The bending of the cover kind of sticks out in the pics, but I don’t care that much when it’s inside the computer under the desk.


Nice. I have the same cooler on the way. I could not find a measure of the height online, could you measure yours? From the mounting and up to the fans. I hope they will go clear of my ROG M.2 Dimm module on my Apex, as it is quite high compare to ram modules.


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## Sayenah

Simkin said:


> Nice. I have the same cooler on the way. I could not find a measure of the height online, could you measure yours? From the mounting and up to the fans. I hope they will go clear of my ROG M.2 Dimm module on my Apex, as it is quite high compare to ram modules.


That’s an excellent cooler! Do you have a link to it? Thanks


----------



## Simkin

Sayenah said:


> That’s an excellent cooler! Do you have a link to it? Thanks


Search up Alseye Ram Cooler on eBay, many there.


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## Sayenah

Simkin said:


> Search up Alseye Ram Cooler on eBay, many there.


I believe they are awkwardly saying in this picture that the height is ~88mm


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## owikh84

Put the Noctua A6x25 fans below that fan bracket, but you need to trim one side of the bracket a bit because these Noctua fans are slightly wider.


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## Stockman

CPU-Z screenshots for Corsair 6200 C36 *CMT32GX5M2X6200C36. *Looks like MSI finally added to QVL for UNIFY-X.
I wonder what the difference is between Chipset = "SK hynix M" versus "SK hynix", per MSI QVL.



*







*


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## asdkj1740

27/1/22
msi new bios for
unify i / carbon / unify x / pro a (wifi)





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hy guys...
I need some help...
I'm running XMP and I'd like to understand where to make changes and have better results.
Do you know if I can find some reading about it?
Or if some of you have some time to explain to me the basics
EDITED: I started reading this thread form page 1... LOL


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## Nizzen

wesley8 said:


> No need to wait，20M=100% Hynix.
> View attachment 2544801
> 
> View attachment 2544800


Where is cpu-z?


----------



## Arni90

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hy guys...
> I need some help...
> I'm running XMP and I'd like to understand where to make changes and have better results.
> Do you know if I can find some reading about it?
> Or if some of you have some time to explain to me the basics
> EDITED: I started reading this thread form page 1... LOL
> View attachment 2544888
> View attachment 2544889
> 
> View attachment 2544890
> View attachment 2544891
> 
> View attachment 2544893
> View attachment 2544894


There's this guide: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
While it's written for DDR4, and the specific timing recommendations don't really apply, the *principle* and *order of tightening timings* remains the same (lower one timing at a time, test stability, rinse and repeat)

Here's what's changed in terms of DDR5 OC on Intel CPUs:

tCL needs to be a multiple of the gear ratio, in gear 2 that means it has to be an even number, while gear 4 means it needs to be a multiple of 4
tRCD and tRP are now separate timings
tREFI can now run as high as 262143, this is the only timing where higher = better.
Tertiary timings for Intel on DDR5 are now at minimum 7, rather than 4.
Due to the increased number of banks on DDR5, _dg timings have a significant impact on performance, _sg timings doesn't make the same kind of difference.
tRFCpb / tRFCsb is a new timing, which refreshes a single bank, this allows the CPU to still access memory while data is being refreshed. Tightening it works similarly to tRFC.
Some testmem5 presets work better than others, ironically enough I've found _1usmus_v3_ to work quite well.
tWR is controlled by tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, if you want a formula: tWR = tWRPDEN - (tCWL + 8)
tWTR_S and tWTR_L are controlled by tWRRD_dg and tWRRD_sg respectively. tWRRD_dg and _sg can have a significant impact on performance, and they can often only tighten 2-6 ticks from stock timings.

For the Hynix ICs you're using, here are my suggestions as a starting point:
VDD/VDDQ: 1.35V
tCL 11 ns
tRCD 13 ns
tRP 13 ns
tRAS 13 ns
tRFC 130 ns
tRFCpb 90 ns

Note that I listed these values in terms of absolute time, and you'll have to multiply them by the actual frequency to get a suggested timing.

Example: tCL at DDR5-5600
DDR5-5600 has an actual frequency of 2.8 GHz
tCL is suggested 11 ns

tCL in ticks = 11 ns * 2.8 GHz = 30.8
Rounded *up* to the nearest multiple of 2, we get tCL 32 as a starting point.

For the rest of the timings, we then get
tRCD 37
tRP 37
tRAS 37
tRFC 364
tRFCpb 252

I use GigaHertz here because Giga (10^9) complements nano (10^-9) so that I don't need to multiply or divide by 1000


Hope this is at least somewhat helpful to you.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Arni90 said:


> There's this guide: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> While it's written for DDR4, and the specific timing recommendations don't really apply, the *principle* and *order of tightening timings* remains the same (lower one timing at a time, test stability, rinse and repeat)
> 
> Here's what's changed in terms of DDR5 OC on Intel CPUs:
> 
> tCL needs to be a multiple of the gear ratio, in gear 2 that means it has to be an even number, while gear 4 means it needs to be a multiple of 4
> tRCD and tRP are now separate timings
> tREFI can now run as high as 262143, this is the only timing where higher = better.
> Tertiary timings for Intel on DDR5 are now at minimum 7, rather than 4.
> Due to the increased number of banks on DDR5, _dg timings have a significant impact on performance, _sg timings doesn't make the same kind of difference.
> tRFCpb / tRFCsb is a new timing, which refreshes a single bank, this allows the CPU to still access memory while data is being refreshed. Tightening it works similarly to tRFC.
> Some testmem5 presets work better than others, ironically enough I've found _1usmus_v3_ to work quite well.
> tWR is controlled by tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, if you want a formula: tWR = tWRPDEN - (tCWL + 8)
> tWTR_S and tWTR_L are controlled by tWRRD_dg and tWRRD_sg respectively. tWRRD_dg and _sg can have a significant impact on performance, and they can often only tighten 2-6 ticks from stock timings.
> 
> For the Hynix ICs you're using, here are my suggestions as a starting point:
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.35V
> tCL 11 ns
> tRCD 13 ns
> tRP 13 ns
> tRAS 13 ns
> tRFC 130 ns
> tRFCpb 90 ns
> 
> Note that I listed these values in terms of absolute time, and you'll have to multiply them by the actual frequency to get a suggested timing.
> 
> Example: tCL at DDR5-5600
> DDR5-5600 has an actual frequency of 2.8 GHz
> tCL is suggested 11 ns
> 
> tCL in ticks = 11 ns * 2.8 GHz = 30.8
> Rounded *up* to the nearest multiple of 2, we get tCL 32 as a starting point.
> 
> For the rest of the timings, we then get
> tRCD 37
> tRP 37
> tRAS 37
> tRFC 364
> tRFCpb 252
> 
> I use GigaHertz here because Giga (10^9) complements nano (10^-9) so that I don't need to multiply or divide by 1000
> 
> 
> Hope this is at least somewhat helpful to you.



Very nice starting point...


For the Hynix 6000 I'll try:

VDD/VDDQ: 1.35V
tCL 11 ns *3 = 34
tRCD 13 ns *3 = 39
tRP 13 ns * 3 = 39
tRAS 13 ns *3 = 39
tRFC 130 ns *3 = 390
tRFCpb 90 ns * 3 = 270










I cant find "tRFCpb".... Where is it?


----------



## Dinnzy

Is it a 0% chance for any Corsair 5600 kit being Hynix ?


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> There's this guide: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> While it's written for DDR4, and the specific timing recommendations don't really apply, the *principle* and *order of tightening timings* remains the same (lower one timing at a time, test stability, rinse and repeat)
> 
> Here's what's changed in terms of DDR5 OC on Intel CPUs:
> 
> tCL needs to be a multiple of the gear ratio, in gear 2 that means it has to be an even number, while gear 4 means it needs to be a multiple of 4
> tRCD and tRP are now separate timings
> tREFI can now run as high as 262143, this is the only timing where higher = better.
> Tertiary timings for Intel on DDR5 are now at minimum 7, rather than 4.
> Due to the increased number of banks on DDR5, _dg timings have a significant impact on performance, _sg timings doesn't make the same kind of difference.
> tRFCpb / tRFCsb is a new timing, which refreshes a single bank, this allows the CPU to still access memory while data is being refreshed. Tightening it works similarly to tRFC.
> Some testmem5 presets work better than others, ironically enough I've found _1usmus_v3_ to work quite well.
> tWR is controlled by tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, if you want a formula: tWR = tWRPDEN - (tCWL + 8)
> tWTR_S and tWTR_L are controlled by tWRRD_dg and tWRRD_sg respectively. tWRRD_dg and _sg can have a significant impact on performance, and they can often only tighten 2-6 ticks from stock timings.
> 
> For the Hynix ICs you're using, here are my suggestions as a starting point:
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.35V
> tCL 11 ns
> tRCD 13 ns
> tRP 13 ns
> tRAS 13 ns
> tRFC 130 ns
> tRFCpb 90 ns
> 
> Note that I listed these values in terms of absolute time, and you'll have to multiply them by the actual frequency to get a suggested timing.
> 
> Example: tCL at DDR5-5600
> DDR5-5600 has an actual frequency of 2.8 GHz
> tCL is suggested 11 ns
> 
> tCL in ticks = 11 ns * 2.8 GHz = 30.8
> Rounded *up* to the nearest multiple of 2, we get tCL 32 as a starting point.
> 
> For the rest of the timings, we then get
> tRCD 37
> tRP 37
> tRAS 37
> tRFC 364
> tRFCpb 252
> 
> I use GigaHertz here because Giga (10^9) complements nano (10^-9) so that I don't need to multiply or divide by 1000
> 
> 
> Hope this is at least somewhat helpful to you.


Nice job!
Vote for "stickey" in post #1 

Like the kids say: POG


----------



## Arni90

RobertoSampaio said:


> Very nice starting point...
> 
> 
> For the Hynix 6000 I'll try:
> 
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.35V
> tCL 11 ns *3 = 34
> tRCD 13 ns *3 = 39
> tRP 13 ns * 3 = 39
> tRAS 13 ns *3 = 39
> tRFC 130 ns *3 = 390
> tRFCpb 90 ns * 3 = 270
> 
> View attachment 2544908
> 
> 
> I cant find "tRFCpb".... Where is it?


tRFCpb is on Timings #3 in MemTweakIt
Alternatively two steps below tRFC in BIOS.

Adjusting tCL needs to be done in BIOS, but MemTweakIt can be used to test timings temporarily.


----------



## TickTockOverclock

Arni90 said:


> There's this guide: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> While it's written for DDR4, and the specific timing recommendations don't really apply, the *principle* and *order of tightening timings* remains the same (lower one timing at a time, test stability, rinse and repeat)
> 
> Here's what's changed in terms of DDR5 OC on Intel CPUs:
> 
> tCL needs to be a multiple of the gear ratio, in gear 2 that means it has to be an even number, while gear 4 means it needs to be a multiple of 4
> tRCD and tRP are now separate timings
> tREFI can now run as high as 262143, this is the only timing where higher = better.
> Tertiary timings for Intel on DDR5 are now at minimum 7, rather than 4.
> Due to the increased number of banks on DDR5, _dg timings have a significant impact on performance, _sg timings doesn't make the same kind of difference.
> tRFCpb / tRFCsb is a new timing, which refreshes a single bank, this allows the CPU to still access memory while data is being refreshed. Tightening it works similarly to tRFC.
> Some testmem5 presets work better than others, ironically enough I've found _1usmus_v3_ to work quite well.
> tWR is controlled by tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, if you want a formula: tWR = tWRPDEN - (tCWL + 8)
> tWTR_S and tWTR_L are controlled by tWRRD_dg and tWRRD_sg respectively. tWRRD_dg and _sg can have a significant impact on performance, and they can often only tighten 2-6 ticks from stock timings.
> 
> For the Hynix ICs you're using, here are my suggestions as a starting point:
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.35V
> tCL 11 ns
> tRCD 13 ns
> tRP 13 ns
> tRAS 13 ns
> tRFC 130 ns
> tRFCpb 90 ns
> 
> Note that I listed these values in terms of absolute time, and you'll have to multiply them by the actual frequency to get a suggested timing.
> 
> Example: tCL at DDR5-5600
> DDR5-5600 has an actual frequency of 2.8 GHz
> tCL is suggested 11 ns
> 
> tCL in ticks = 11 ns * 2.8 GHz = 30.8
> Rounded *up* to the nearest multiple of 2, we get tCL 32 as a starting point.
> 
> For the rest of the timings, we then get
> tRCD 37
> tRP 37
> tRAS 37
> tRFC 364
> tRFCpb 252
> 
> I use GigaHertz here because Giga (10^9) complements nano (10^-9) so that I don't need to multiply or divide by 1000
> 
> 
> Hope this is at least somewhat helpful to you.


Thank you for this! As someone who is also starting out this is great info.


----------



## akgis

Now that I got stability done Iam chasing those sub 60 latency in Aida is worth to go tighter timings or higher freq? Ram is XMP Samsung [email protected]


----------



## RobertoSampaio

fortecosi said:


> I am moving slowly up while trying to stick with T1:


I'll try to copy your settings.. 




















Any sugestion ?


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result on 4 slot Hero MB + T-force 6400 cl40 (OC 6666-32-40-40-28-2t)
- vdd/vddq = 1.55v, SA Auto (1.25V), MC Auto (1.35V)


----------



## knock

sugi0lover said:


> OC result on 4 slot Hero MB + T-force 6400 cl40 (OC 6666-32-40-40-28-2t)
> - vdd/vddq = 1.55v, SA Auto (1.25V), MC Auto (1.35V)
> 
> View attachment 2544963
> 
> View attachment 2544964


With bclk you could go higher since that divider is solid. Drop CPU multiplier to compensate.


----------



## sugi0lover

knock said:


> With bclk you could go higher since that divider is solid. Drop CPU multiplier to compensate.


Thanks for your opinion! That OC result is my friend's not mine.


----------



## centvalny

Finally 7400 air, sweet spot settings for benching next...


----------



## knock

centvalny said:


> Finally 7400, sweet spot settings for benching next...
> 
> View attachment 2544977


Nice! What are your voltages and secondary/tertiary timings?

Cold on the CPU or ambient?


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> New Gskill 6400 CL32 Ram kits can be bought in Korean PC shops.
> Price USD 740~ USD 780 (VAT included)
> don't know it's Samsung or Hynix yet~ My friend will get it tonight, so I will update!
> View attachment 2544785
> 
> 
> View attachment 2544786


Any update?


----------



## sblantipodi

I have a question for the experts.
I know that overclocking ECC memory is difficult because there is no way to check if memory is failing with test software because ECC memory correct the errors on the fly.

The only way to see if ECC memory is failing is using a benchmark that shows that the memory is slowing down while fixing errors.

I know that ddr5 is not ECC memory but I know that they have an internal ECC check that check for the errors inside the stick and not on the entire path between the CPU to the stick.

Is this the reason why it's so hard to find errors on ddr5? I noticed that you can do a lot of tests without errors and get some errors the next day.
Is the ecc internal check of DDR5 somewhat related to this?


----------



## Carillo

wesley8 said:


> No need to wait，20M=100% Hynix.
> View attachment 2544801
> 
> View attachment 2544800


Can you confirm the "100% Hynix" statement with a cpu-z screenshot ?


----------



## YaqY

Carillo said:


> Can you confirm the "100% Hynix" statement with a cpu-z screenshot ?


If you can see the code on gskill sticks it confirms it, has been same for ddr4. “20” means it is a Hynix ic.


----------



## Sayenah

YaqY said:


> If you can see the code on gskill sticks it confirms it, has been same for ddr4. “20” means it is a Hynix ic.


I will buy these the minute I have confirmation that G.Skill has come to its senses and putting thermal pads on the PMIC


----------



## jeiselramos

i9-12900K SP88
Z690 Apex 1101
6000 32-35-35-52 1T VDD/VDDQ 1.435
SA 0.9 TXVDDQ 1.435 MC 1.3375

This profile work for me since the first day i've the apex without any crash


----------



## sugi0lover

matique said:


> Any update?


Because of the lunar new year, all shipping take longer, so my friend will receive it tomorrow. Hiwever I talked to the seller and he confirms that it's hynix.
When my friend actually receives it, I will share cpuz.


----------



## ThinbinJim

satinghostrider said:


> When I used a led torch to shine through I couldn't see any. Either the pad was very thin and I couldn't see it or it was not on my kit.


Like the other poster, my hynix Kingston 6000c40 kit has the pmic pads. Most of the pmic is covered by a thick pad, leaving only 1 IC exposed


----------



## satinghostrider

ThinbinJim said:


> Like the other poster, my hynix Kingston 6000c40 kit has the pmic pads. Most of the pmic is covered by a thick pad, leaving only 1 IC exposed
> View attachment 2544996


I must have mistaken the exposed IC as no thermal pad I need to recheck again. Thanks for confirming la.


----------



## Nizzen

For people having a bit unstable xmp 6000c36 kit. 
Try this tip from Shamino. It helped me to get xmp stable.

‐-‐------
skew control/odts/
rtt WR 48
rtt Nom rd 34
rtt nom wr 34
rtt park 34
rtt parkdqs 34

rtt ca group A 240
rtt cs group A 0
rtt ck group A 0

rtt ca group B 40
rtt cs group B 40
rtt ck group B 40

Ron odt up/down: 34/34

skew control/comp control:

DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL0_dqvrefup 159
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL0_dqvrefdn 94
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL0_dqodtvrefup 128
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL0_dqodtvrefdn 99

DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL1_cmdvrefup 145
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL1_ctlvrefup 118
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL1_clkvrefup 128
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL1_ckecsvrefup 0
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL2_cmdvrefdn 92
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL2_ctlvrefdn 103
DDRPHY_COMP_CR_DDRCRCOMPCTL2_clkvrefdn 92

mc voltage 1.25v, vdd/vddq 1.35v. 0.95-1.05v SA


----------



## Simkin

YaqY said:


> If you can see the code on gskill sticks it confirms it, has been same for ddr4. “20” means it is a Hynix ic.


It's not until we see a screenshot of it.


----------



## marti69

whats the max safe imc voltage?i see some ppl going as high as 1.45v daily.


----------



## sblantipodi

marti69 said:


> whats the max safe imc voltage?i see some ppl going as high as 1.45v daily.


This is a recurring question no one answers here.
If you find the answer I would be interested in it


----------



## YaqY

Simkin said:


> It's not until we see a screenshot of it.


I guess you don’t understand how gskill has been labelling their kits for a long while now. “10” is Samsung, “20” is Hynix. If you can find me a kit that doesn’t follow this then I’ll take my words back but I haven’t seen otherwise even with ddr4… I’m not saying every 6400 gskill kit is Hynix but if you are buying in person or have a picture of the label then you can easily be sure.


----------



## Simkin

YaqY said:


> I guess you don’t understand how gskill has been labelling their kits for a long while now. “10” is Samsung, “20” is Hynix. If you can find me a kit that doesn’t follow this then I’ll take my words back but I haven’t seen otherwise even with ddr4… I’m not saying every 6400 gskill kit is Hynix but if you are buying in person or have a picture of the label then you can easily be sure.


All I know is that g.skill says no ddr5 kits from them is Hynix.

But they also said first that J kits should be Hynix 😬

Again. Provide cpuz screenshot, how difficult could it be?


----------



## Carillo

YaqY said:


> I guess you don’t understand how gskill has been labelling their kits for a long while now. “10” is Samsung, “20” is Hynix. If you can find me a kit that doesn’t follow this then I’ll take my words back but I haven’t seen otherwise even with ddr4… I’m not saying every 6400 gskill kit is Hynix but if you are buying in person or have a picture of the label then you can easily be sure.


I do not understand why you get involved in a simple question about a screenshot that is not aimed at you? A number or a code is an indication, a screenshot is a confirmation and that's what we are asking for.


----------



## satinghostrider

Simkin said:


> All I know is that g.skill says no ddr5 kits from them is Hynix.
> 
> But they also said first that J kits should be Hynix 😬
> 
> Again. Provide cpuz screenshot, how difficult could it be?


These kits are so new and @sugi0lover earlier informed due to Lunar New year holidays the few people who ordered it are only getting it tomorrow or something due to delays. I'm sure they will post once they get it. Relax.

Retrospectively I also used @owikh84 suggestion on the codes for Kingston Fury kits and ETHH which was Hynix did turn out to be Hynix. I believe the information provided here is accurate but if you want confirmation, do wait. Only a few people have got it and are still waiting to molest it so they can test it and confirm. Rome wasn't built in 1 day.


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> I do not understand why you get involved in a simple question about a screenshot that is not aimed at you? A number or a code is an indication, a screenshot is a confirmation and that's what we are asking for.


only a peek can prove it!


----------



## Sayenah

asdkj1740 said:


> only a peek can prove it!


That’s what she said… 

(I will show myself out…)


----------



## YaqY

Carillo said:


> I do not understand why you get involved in a simple question about a screenshot that is not aimed at you? A number or a code is an indication, a screenshot is a confirmation and that's what we are asking for.


I know it’s not aimed at me but gskill has been using these codes on their memory modules for a long time and have been 100% reliable at providing ic information from any case I’ve seen and yet to see otherwise. But I guess if you need a cpuz screenshot to prove something that is already concrete then that isn’t an issue. Kind of helps when people usually can’t open and stick a memory stick in their pc to check cpuz before purchase but they can check the code through the packaging. Let me know if the code is ever misleading though then I’ll take my statement back.


----------



## xl_digit

just received a kit of F5-6400J3239G-16GX2-TZ5RK = Hynix.


----------



## Carillo

xl_digit said:


> just received a kit of F5-6400J3239G-16GX2-TZ5RK = Hynix.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545024


Thanks


----------



## Sayenah

I have a Z690 Apex now… will this work on vanilla XMP1 with the newly released BIOS?
I will take bets


----------



## Nizzen

Sayenah said:


> I have a Z690 Apex now… will this work on vanilla XMP1 with the newly released BIOS?
> I will take bets


If the imc is good, chances are high 
I ordered this kit, and will try xmp just for fun, but this isn't xmp.net 😆

OC legend quote;
"Go high, or go home"


----------



## Simkin

G.skill "Tech support" is truly impressive. 😅😅


----------



## Sayenah

Nizzen said:


> If the imc is good, chances are high
> I ordered this kut, and will try xmp just for fun, but this isn't xmp.net 😆
> 
> OC legend quote;
> "Go high, or go home"


haha!! I am so new to overclocking but I am absolutely ”all in” and learning from you all!

In fact, I returned my Z690 Extreme for a Z690 Apex because of you guys haha 

in all honesty I am enjoying experimenting with OC’ing more than gaming. This is not so different than modifying cars and racing; the idea is always to exceed one’s expectations. I come from that world, hence the draw toward OC’ing

kit ordered!!


----------



## Arni90

Simkin said:


> G.skill "Tech support" is truly impressive. 😅😅


Look up QVL lists for newly released kits instead, you're more likely to get the correct IC from that.

MSI is usually pretty good at updating their lists, as well as having a good search function.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

How to know what voltage to rise when I have BSOD ?

VDD/VDDQ shall be always have the same voltage?

What is the problem of let SA (auto) - 1.25v ?

MC auto, or should I specify a value?

I'm trying this setting, but I had some BSOD ...


VDD/VDDQ 1.35
SA auto (1.25v)
MC auto (1.295v)


----------



## satinghostrider

RobertoSampaio said:


> How to know what voltage to rise when I have BSOD ?
> 
> VDD/VDDQ shall be always have the same voltage?
> 
> What is the problem of let SA (auto) - 1.25v ?
> 
> MC auto, or should I specify a value?
> 
> I'm trying this setting, but I had some BSOD ...
> 
> 
> VDD/VDDQ 1.35
> SA auto (1.25v)
> MC auto (1.295v)
> View attachment 2545048


Roberto, why don't you run the Asus preset (32-35-52) for your Samsung kit but change CR to 2T? If it can run, you just have to tweak voltages and test for stability. It's under Memory Presets in DRAM timing control.


----------



## Muad_Dib69

RobertoSampaio said:


> How to know what voltage to rise when I have BSOD ?
> 
> VDD/VDDQ shall be always have the same voltage?
> 
> What is the problem of let SA (auto) - 1.25v ?
> 
> MC auto, or should I specify a value?
> 
> I'm trying this setting, but I had some BSOD ...
> 
> 
> VDD/VDDQ 1.35
> SA auto (1.25v)
> MC auto (1.295v)
> View attachment 2545048


Lots of people reported better stabilty with SA below 1V. usally 0.95V

And I agree with *satinghostrider *use the 6000cas 32 profile and improve it. If it doesn't start in 1T change it for 2


----------



## RobertoSampaio

satinghostrider said:


> Roberto, why don't you run the Asus preset (32-35-52) for your Samsung kit but change CR to 2T? If it can run, you just have to tweak voltages and test for stability. It's under Memory Presets in DRAM timing control.


I did that... O have a hynix 6000 cl40 kit...
But changing to 2T I have a BSOD after a few minutes...
I'll try to clear CMOS and do it again and test...


----------



## Muad_Dib69

I have a formula and it's working but my kit is cas36. I have 1.435/1.435/0.95 SA/1.25MC
you can play with mode 1 and 2 in timings.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I'm waiting the RAM cooler I bought arrives...
When testing, they hit >60C


----------



## Muad_Dib69

it's normal, it doesn't happent in real world


----------



## satinghostrider

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'm waiting the RAM cooler I bought arrives...
> When testing, they hit >60C


I would not bother testing TestMem5 if past 55 degrees.
Your errors could be anything from timings to thermals. Much better to test once you get the ram cooler so you isolate the issue of thermals spitting errors out. You can try to game first and see if it crashes to desktop. It won't be as hard as testing memory and at least you'll know the level of stability roughly you're at. Once you're past 60, you are very prone to errors.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Look like is stable... No BSOD so far...

VDD/VDDQ/VDDtx 1.435v
SA 0.95v
MC 1.28


----------



## sblantipodi

RobertoSampaio said:


> How to know what voltage to rise when I have BSOD ?
> 
> VDD/VDDQ shall be always have the same voltage?
> 
> What is the problem of let SA (auto) - 1.25v ?
> 
> MC auto, or should I specify a value?
> 
> I'm trying this setting, but I had some BSOD ...
> 
> 
> VDD/VDDQ 1.35
> SA auto (1.25v)
> MC auto (1.295v)
> View attachment 2545048


1.35V can be too few for your kit. 
I need 1.37V to be stable at 5GHz on 4 sticks.

Try raising a bit VDD/VDDQ...
MC voltage can be a bit too few for that latencies... I would try increasing a bit if you really want to achieve that latencies.

I agree, try the asus preset first.


----------



## opt33

RobertoSampaio said:


> Look like is stable... No BSOD so far...
> 
> VDD/VDDQ/VDDtx 1.435v
> SA 0.95v
> MC 1.28


I would get primaries sorted first, tCL most important, 32-35-35-52 should not be an issue at 1.40v unless have bad binned hynix which is possible, but wont know til back off (temporarily) secondary/tertiary tight timings if those are what is requiring more volts. Maybe set twr 30+, and especially both trc's on auto or less tight, and maybe twrwr_sg on 22. If that doesnt work, write 2nd/3rd all down and change to auto until 32-35-35-52 is stable with known volts. Then go back and tighten twr, trfc/trfcpb, twrwr sg, tcwl but one/few at time and test at least 5-10mins per change. 

Should easily get 55 ns latency 6000 32-35-35 1.4ish volts. If you have asus armoury installed that worsens latency by ~3+ns. I tested below but use same with trefi 25k/52 latency. If I ran trfc/trfcpb like yours I would need 1.5+volts for stable instead of ~1.40, though hynix apparently allows lower than samsung.


----------



## schuldig

opt33 said:


> I would get primaries sorted first, tCL most important, 32-35-35-52 should not be an issue at 1.40v unless have bad binned hynix which is possible, but wont know til back off (temporarily) secondary/tertiary tight timings if those are what is requiring more volts. Maybe set twr 30+, and especially both trc's on auto or less tight, and maybe twrwr_sg on 22. If that doesnt work, write 2nd/3rd all down and change to auto until 32-35-35-52 is stable with known volts. Then go back and tighten twr, trfc/trfcpb, twrwr sg, tcwl but one/few at time and test at least 5-10mins per change.
> 
> Should easily get 55 ns latency 6000 32-35-35 1.4ish volts. If you have asus armoury installed that worsens latency by ~3+ns. I tested below but use same with trefi 25k/52 latency. If I ran trfc/trfcpb like yours I would need 1.5+volts for stable instead of ~1.40, though hynix apparently allows lower than samsung.


very good CR1 results! I forgot are you using WC'ed RAM or on air? And what °C are you getting on them while testing or gaming? Just so people can adjust their expectations when it comes to the results.
Much obliged!


----------



## Carillo

Been playing with Hynix 4800 c40 on water tonight. Water-temp 18C 

6700 c30 tight with low voltage( 1,44VDD) 

Apex bios 0086


----------



## opt33

schuldig said:


> very good CR1 results! I forgot are you using WC'ed RAM or on air? And what °C are you getting on them while testing or gaming? Just so people can adjust their expectations when it comes to the results.
> Much obliged!


air with 90mm fan. gaming temps 40's, memtest overnight or tm5 anta extreme mid 50's max. One run of tm5anta for 37 mins so you can see volts/temps with my 24/7 settings with reduced trefi to 25000 (lose 1ns latency), but gaming and apps I use no difference. Have gamed some with trefi 65K without issue, but mostly 25k. 1.38 vdd/vddq, 1.23 cpu vdd2 (mc), sa at 1.0


----------



## jomama22

Carillo said:


> Been playing with Hynix 4800 c40 on water tonight. Water-temp 18C
> 
> 6700 c30 tight with low voltage( 1,44VDD)
> 
> Apex bios 0086
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545134


Just remember Aida scores don't mean a whole lot with bclk oc


----------



## Carillo

jomama22 said:


> Just remember Aida scores don't mean a whole lot with bclk oc


Here is this guy again. Please elaborate
0,5% Bclk


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Now I can test the memories... LOLOLOL


----------



## orbitech

Not too shabby for Samsung and my "mediocre" 12900k SP82 (88P,72E) 
VDD/VDDQ/VDDtx 1.53v SA 0.95v MC 1.35 
I'm fairly pleased.. More than that I need tons of voltage.. And my CPU runs too hot for daily use.. Will test for 24/7 use extensively till now TM5 [email protected] is pass with this


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Temps are <45 running TM5...
No errors....
Without the fans, temps >55C and a some errors...


----------



## sblantipodi

satinghostrider said:


> I would not bother testing TestMem5 if past 55 degrees.


Are all of you producing winter overclock? 
this summer you'll have +10C degrees on the RAM more or less...

Will you change your OC or repeat the process this summer?
IMHO a RAM OC should be stable without taking temps into account.

If you are doing it to show some results in forums ok but if you "use your computer" it's another story


----------



## RobertoSampaio

sblantipodi said:


> Are all of you producing winter overclock?
> this summer you'll have +10C degrees on the RAM more or less...
> 
> Will you change your OC or repeat the process this summer?
> IMHO a RAM OC should be stable without taking temps into account.
> 
> If you are doing it to show some results in forums ok but if you "use your computer" it's another story



It's impossible to me to set a winter overclock.... LOLOLO











Today was 35C outside... I
In my office, with AC on, it's 28C at 20h20...
Water temp is 34C...










When gaming, the room temp goes over 30C.. LOLOL


----------



## satinghostrider

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's impossible to me to set a winter overclock.... LOLOLO
> 
> View attachment 2545149
> 
> 
> 
> Today was 35C outside... I
> In my office, with AC on, it's 28C at 20h20...
> Water temp is 34C...
> 
> View attachment 2545150
> 
> 
> When gaming, the room temp goes over 30C.. LOLOL


Sounds alot like Singapore tropical weather. 😂


----------



## sblantipodi

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's impossible to me to set a winter overclock.... LOLOLO
> 
> View attachment 2545149
> 
> 
> 
> Today was 35C outside... I
> In my office, with AC on, it's 28C at 20h20...
> Water temp is 34C...
> 
> View attachment 2545150
> 
> 
> When gaming, the room temp goes over 30C.. LOLOL


Ahaha, ok. So it should be easyer for you to have a stable temp 😁


----------



## Forsaken1

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's impossible to me to set a winter overclock.... LOLOLO


Pick up a chiller or sing stage.Winter all year round🥶.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I have this... But the best it can do here in the summer is 25C at night... LOL


----------



## opt33

Stockman said:


> CPU-Z screenshots for Corsair 6200 C36 *CMT32GX5M2X6200C36. *Looks like MSI finally added to QVL for UNIFY-X.
> I wonder what the difference is between Chipset = "SK hynix M" versus "SK hynix", per MSI QVL.


I ordered same 6200c36 from corsair after seeing your post, hopefully same hynix so can try vs my samsung.... but just saw fedex tracking, didnt even think about it coming from taiwan and no estimate delivery date though been through 2 sites in taiwan. 

Did you (or anyone else for that matter) order from corsair recently and know rough delivery times given current situation, ie week, 2,3?


----------



## dimar

I updated ROG STRIX Z690-E to the new BIOS 1003. Had time to run 1 pass with MemTest 9.4 Pro with 0 errors at DDR5 6400 XMP1.
Team T-Force Delta RGB 2x16GB FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01


----------



## GtiJason

Carillo said:


> Been playing with Hynix 4800 c40 on water tonight. Water-temp 18C
> 
> 6700 c30 tight with low voltage( 1,44VDD)
> 
> Apex bios 0086


Nice OC ! Where did you find Apex bios 0086 ?


----------



## Stockman

opt33 said:


> I ordered same 6200c36 from corsair after seeing your post, hopefully same hynix so can try vs my samsung.... but just saw fedex tracking, didnt even think about it coming from taiwan and no estimate delivery date though been through 2 sites in taiwan.
> 
> Did you (or anyone else for that matter) order from corsair recently and know rough delivery times given current situation, ie week, 2,3?


Yep, sounds familiar. Mine also came direct from Taiwan. If you look under shipping info section of Corsair website it says that Taiwan is typical shipping origin for RAM.

At the time I'd been refreshing retailer websites for over a month trying to find stock - it could've taken 6 weeks to arrive and I'd still be happy to just have something locked in. Also, very glad back then I didn't know anything about Hynix vs. Samsung or it would have made it even more stressful. I was actually disappointed when CPU-Z displayed Hynix after searching everywhere for Samsung DDR4 years ago.

Dec 16 purchased
Dec 22 shipped
Dec 27 delivered
I'm in the US.


----------



## Sayenah

Open question, how easy it is to open up a G.Skill Z5 and put a damn thermal pad on the PMIC? Has anyone tried it? Reading this forum I have learnt that Corsair and Team Group both put thermal pads on the PMIC but G.Skill doesn’t, 

I ordered the G.skill 6400 C32 kit this morning; I just hate the idea of these things heating up and causing errors.


----------



## oc22jirM

Sayenah said:


> Open question, how easy it is to open up a G.Skill Z5 and put a damn thermal pad on the PMIC? Has anyone tried it? Reading this forum I have learnt that Corsair and Team Group both put thermal pads on the PMIC but G.Skill doesn’t,
> 
> I ordered the G.skill 6400 C32 kit this morning; I just hate the idea of these things heating up and causing errors.


Where are you located? Where did you find the 6400 kit? There are some posts on the thread with people taking off the heatsink and putting their own solutions on the Trident z5 BTW


----------



## jollib

Carillo said:


> Been playing with Hynix 4800 c40 on water tonight. Water-temp 18C
> 
> 6700 c30 tight with low voltage( 1,44VDD)
> 
> Apex bios 0086
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545134


What kind of ram watercooling are you doing. trying to get some inspiration on how I should watercool my ram.


----------



## oc22jirM

Carillo said:


> Thanks


Where did you order from sir?


----------



## Sayenah

oc22jirM said:


> Where did you order from sir?


hey there! I ordered from Newegg directly. Mine is being delivered tomorrow.

G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR5 SDRAM DDR5 6400 Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com

I am in the US, in the lovely state of MN


----------



## sugi0lover

jollib said:


> What kind of ram watercooling are you doing. trying to get some inspiration on how I should watercool my ram.


This is my old ram water cooling setup. The concept is the same.


----------



## Stockman

opt33 said:


> I ordered same 6200c36 from corsair after seeing your post, hopefully same hynix so can try vs my samsung.... but just saw fedex tracking, didnt even think about it coming from taiwan and no estimate delivery date though been through 2 sites in taiwan.
> 
> Did you (or anyone else for that matter) order from corsair recently and know rough delivery times given current situation, ie week, 2,3?


Just noticed the price of this kit FELL $20 since I ordered. ***. Soft demand for this kit, I guess..lol. I felt insanely lucky to find this in stock back in December. After I checked out, I refreshed Corsair website on a different PC and it remained in stock for 7-10 minutes which was crazy when bots were picking up stock in 2sec elsewhere. I remember thinking the kit not being on any QVLs (until very recently) could've helped. (No, I did not consider buying more for ebay)
Me: $515usd
Now: $495usd


----------



## oc22jirM

Sayenah said:


> hey there! I ordered from Newegg directly. Mine is being delivered tomorrow.
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR5 SDRAM DDR5 6400 Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com
> 
> I am in the US, in the lovely state of MN


Thanks bro! Didn't realize they were on Newegg already I figured there might be a delay after the announcement. Just put in an order for the black version and I'm still on my return period for the 6000c36 model. Hopefully these run ok on the apex, we will find out soon 😀


----------



## Sayenah

Stockman said:


> Just noticed the price of this kit FELL $20 since I ordered. ***. Soft demand for this kit, I guess..lol. I felt insanely lucky to find this in stock back in December. After I checked out, I refreshed Corsair website on a different PC and it remained in stock for 7-10 minutes which was crazy when bots were picking up stock in 2sec elsewhere. I remember thinking the kit not being on any QVLs (until very recently) could've helped. (No, I did not consider buying more for ebay)
> Me: $515usd
> Now: $495usd


(Re: eBay reselling) Imagine being such a bottom feeder that you destroy a hobby ecosystem for a “few bucks”. These lowlives don’t actually make that much off these things. However I have noticed that if you negotiate right, and if they are desperate enough they do eventually yield close to MSRP, sometimes even below it.

but anyway, I am on the lookout for the 6400 variant of that Corsair kit. However just picked up a G.Skill 6400c32 so Corsair is a lot less attractive now.


----------



## satinghostrider

Sayenah said:


> (Re: eBay reselling) Imagine being such a bottom feeder that you destroy a hobby ecosystem for a “few bucks”. These lowlives don’t actually make that much off these things. However I have noticed that if you negotiate right, and if they are desperate enough they do eventually yield close to MSRP, sometimes even below it.
> 
> but anyway, I am on the lookout for the 6400 variant of that Corsair kit. However just picked up a G.Skill 6400c32 so Corsair is a lot less attractive now.


If you intend to watercool the rams, get the non-rgb G.skill. The Dominator you are mainly paying for the heatsink and it's pointless if you are gonna rip it apart plus those Dominator PCB looks quite abit taller than the usual DDR5 modules so you may not be able to fit those standard heatsink for watercooling as well. Something to take note of.


----------



## Sayenah

oc22jirM said:


> Thanks bro! Didn't realize they were on Newegg already I figured there might be a delay after the announcement. Just put in an order for the black version and I'm still on my return period for the 6000c36 model. Hopefully these run ok on the apex, we will find out soon 😀


I was up for an early morning east coast meeting and saw these gents over here talk about this kit. Saw it was available off some European site called LDLC who only wanted “wire transfer”… man, I don’t mind spending money, but I hate it when some e-commerce entity thinks I am stupid enough to “wire transfer” across the Atlantic hahaha! Headed over to Newegg to check for RAM prices and this popped up. Ordered express instantly haha

By the way, I am sure I am close to being banned at Newegg for all the returns I did over the last two months haha! I am sure you will be fine… did you buy your G.Skill from Newegg? I’d prefer to buy these things from Micro Center with a replacement plan, as I hate dealing with RMAs.


----------



## D-EJ915

Stockman said:


> Just noticed the price of this kit FELL $20 since I ordered. ***. Soft demand for this kit, I guess..lol. I felt insanely lucky to find this in stock back in December. After I checked out, I refreshed Corsair website on a different PC and it remained in stock for 7-10 minutes which was crazy when bots were picking up stock in 2sec elsewhere. I remember thinking the kit not being on any QVLs (until very recently) could've helped. (No, I did not consider buying more for ebay)
> Me: $515usd
> Now: $495usd


I ordered the 5600 kit they also lowered the price and not only that they sent it to walgreens and not my home so I submitted a ticket for a refund lol.


----------



## Sayenah

satinghostrider said:


> If you intend to watercool the rams, get the non-rgb G.skill. The Dominator you are mainly paying for the heatsink and it's pointless if you are gonna rip it apart plus those Dominator PCB looks quite abit taller than the usual DDR5 modules so you may not be able to fit those standard heatsink for watercooling as well. Something to take note of.


Watercooling is not in my near future; I would love the project but the maintenance seems to be a lot more than I can dedicate myself to. So, I am looking for RAMs I can aircool with a couple of tiny Noctuas… and seem like the G.Skills may be some of the worst for air-cooling.

any thoughts on adding thermal pads on the PMIC on the Z5 RGB?

I believe the Z5 don’t come with that and it leads to heat build and eventual instability (hopefully that’s changed with the Hynix ICs in the 6400 kit).


----------



## satinghostrider

Sayenah said:


> Watercooling is not in my near future; I would love the project but the maintenance seems to be a lot more than I can dedicate myself to. So, I am looking for RAMs I can aircool with a couple of tiny Noctuas… and seem like the G.Skills may be some of the worst for air-cooling.
> 
> any thoughts on adding thermal pads on the PMIC on the Z5 RGB?
> 
> I believe the Z5 don’t come with that and it leads to heat build and eventual instability (hopefully that’s changed with the Hynix ICs in the 6400 kit).


I did toy with that of adding thermal pads to my Gskill RGB kit but I just decided to get non-RGB rams to do that. In another forum, it is stated that the newest bios starting with Microcode 18 is much better for Samsung/Hynix so I'd start with that first. The G.skills are fine with active cooling mine doesn't cross 50 degrees under TM5 with 1.42VDD/VDDQ. Gaming my SPD temps under 40 degrees.


----------



## Sayenah

satinghostrider said:


> I did toy with that of adding thermal pads to my Gskill RGB kit but I just decided to get non-RGB rams to do that. In another forum, it is stated that the newest bios starting with Microcode 18 is much better for Samsung/Hynix so I'd start with that first. The G.skills are fine with active cooling mine doesn't cross 50 degrees under TM5 with 1.42VDD/VDDQ. Gaming my SPD temps under 40 degrees.


Very very encouraging to hear! Thank you! Plus my systems are in a climate controlled basement. Come snow or sun, the ambient temps and humidity levels are the same year round. 

By the way, don’t mind my new-ness to all of this, but when you say active cooling, are you referring to those RAM air coolers or just the vanilla configuration of the G.Skills with the stock Heatsink?


----------



## satinghostrider

Sayenah said:


> Very very encouraging to hear! Thank you! Plus my systems are in a climate controlled basement. Come snow or sun, the ambient temps and humidity levels are the same year round.
> 
> By the way, don’t mind my new-ness to all of this, but when you say active cooling, are you referring to those RAM air coolers or just the vanilla configuration of the G.Skills with the stock Heatsink?


I'm running the Corsair Vengeance cooler for my setup which is air. I'm waiting to get a good kit before I watercool them as the bins I've had so far aren't the greatest and they are RGB. I'll have to test the 6400c32 once I get them which are non-RGB. If they work well, I'll rip those apart and get them under water ASAP.


----------



## oc22jirM

Sayenah said:


> I was up for an early morning east coast meeting and saw these gents over here talk about this kit. Saw it was available off some European site called LDLC who only wanted “wire transfer”… man, I don’t mind spending money, but I hate it when some e-commerce entity thinks I am stupid enough to “wire transfer” across the Atlantic hahaha! Headed over to Newegg to check for RAM prices and this popped up. Ordered express instantly haha
> 
> By the way, I am sure I am close to being banned at Newegg for all the returns I did over the last two months haha! I am sure you will be fine… did you buy your G.Skill from Newegg? I’d prefer to buy these things from Micro Center with a replacement plan, as I hate dealing with RMAs.


No the purchase was on Amazon thankfully so no hassle at all. I'm a little afraid to return to Newegg at the moment. Have been shopping from them for 20 years but heard since they changed owners returns can be dicey. Already processed the return on Amazon and have 15 days to drop them off at the ups store so should give ample time to get the Newegg kit. Looking forward to seeing how far I can push the hynix kit didn't see people having the best luck with Samsungs.

Also I saw your other posts I ordered the alseye ram cooler. Think it was from Alibaba and got here in a couple weeks was only $20 something shipped and they have been working great


----------



## Stockman

For anyone interested, System Information Viewer (SIV) found at this link will tell you literally everything about your system, including memory IC manufacturer. 
(P.S. it has a website from 1994)
(P.P.S it has a wizard...🧙‍♂️)


----------



## Mr.Vegas

Guys help a noob  I never OC RAM, does this have any benefit for games?
Basically I want to know if I should invest in better RAM and if i should OC at all, i have Gskill 6000/36 kit, almost ordered the new 6400/32
Then I run through some web sites that posted DDR5 scaling and based on that and their OC results like going from 4800/36 to 6400/36 with same kit as i have, the results showed no visible difference.
Unless im missing something?
I almost ordered the new kit and its not cheap, especially with INT shipping and import tax, kinda want to know if its money well spent on something that benefits me or I betetr should puut it aside for future hardware or diffrent upgrade that has tangible results.
Sadly i cant return my old kit.
BTW im yet to assemble my PC and because of this I already have 2 kits, first one was XPG 5200 and then i managed to get Gskill rgb 6000/36

The parts that i have are 12900K, Aorus Master mobo and custom loop, ram wont be cooled since i have a fat rad there, i cant even use corsair ram, its too tall, only ram that as tall as Gskill.


----------



## Falkentyne

satinghostrider said:


> I did toy with that of adding thermal pads to my Gskill RGB kit but I just decided to get non-RGB rams to do that. In another forum, it is stated that the newest bios starting with Microcode 18 is much better for Samsung/Hynix so I'd start with that first. The G.skills are fine with active cooling mine doesn't cross 50 degrees under TM5 with 1.42VDD/VDDQ. Gaming my SPD temps under 40 degrees.


How do you remove the heat spreader off Ripjaws Z5, without destroying the entire module? (and if you do NOT own a hair dryer? Or do you just have to buy a hairdryer?)


----------



## knock

Stockman said:


> For anyone interested, System Information Viewer (SIV) found at this link will tell you literally everything about your system, including memory IC manufacturer.
> (P.S. it has a website from 1994)
> (P.P.S it has a wizard...🧙‍♂️)


Thaiphoon Burner. Can also burn SPDs like the Tachyon but better. Persistent on the actual stick.


----------



## satinghostrider

Falkentyne said:


> How do you remove the heat spreader off Ripjaws Z5, without destroying the entire module? (and if you do NOT own a hair dryer? Or do you just have to buy a hairdryer?)


Buy a hairdryer or use a heatgun. If you have access to liquid nitrogen, that would be the easiest. Better still, if you have a gf, you can steal a hairdryer off her while she's sleeping. Zero cash outlay.


----------



## neurokirurgi

Falkentyne said:


> How do you remove the heat spreader off Ripjaws Z5, without destroying the entire module? (and if you do NOT own a hair dryer? Or do you just have to buy a hairdryer?)


Use a hairdryer and then slowly pry them open. I guess you could use an oven to heat the sticks up, but I wouldn't do that myself. Or I guess you could run tm5 for a while and then quickly turn off the computer, remove the sticks and start prying. But the hair dryer makes it easy. But if you don't have one, ask a girl you know to borrow hers and explain that it's for science 

I used an old credit card as a prying tool when I removed the heatspreaders on my TridentZ's. I spent something like 15 minutes per stick as I was being super careful.

What I did was that I started prying in a location on the stick where there's a gap between the HS and the stick and which doesn't have caps or chips on it. So that would be the end of the stick above the last IC in this case. Heat the stick up enough (use your own judgement, I went as far as a could before my fingers started burning basically), pry for a bit, reheat when it cools down too much, rinse and repeat. You want to hear that gooey sound when you pry because that tells you that you're separating the memory chips and the glue from each other.


----------



## satinghostrider

neurokirurgi said:


> Use a hairdryer and then slowly pry them open. I guess you could use an oven to heat the sticks up, but I wouldn't do that myself. Or I guess you could run tm5 for a while and then quickly turn off the computer, remove the sticks and start prying. But the hair dryer makes it easy. But if you don't have one, ask a girl you know to borrow hers and explain that it's for science
> 
> I used an old credit card as a prying tool when I removed the heatspreaders on my TridentZ's. I spent something like 15 minutes per stick as I was being super careful.
> 
> What I did was that I started prying in a location on the stick where there's a gap between the HS and the stick and which doesn't have caps or chips on it. So that would be the end of the stick above the last IC in this case. Heat the stick up enough (use your own judgement, I went as far as a could before my fingers started burning basically), pry for a bit, reheat when it cools down too much, rinse and repeat. You want to hear that gooey sound when you pry because that tells you that you're separating the memory chips and the glue from each other.







Yes find a place where the 2 heatsinks join and use a card to slowly pry them between the edges. The video above shows this. Not on Trident Z5 but the idea is there. Just be extra careful whenever there is SMDs around the area you gonna pry. As always, use heat to simplify the removal of the heatsink or you will be at it all day and you might even pull off the DRAM nands if you force it out.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Same profile as before just with few improvements.
12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 30-37-37 1T 1.45v VDD/VDDQ 0.90v SA 1.25v MC


----------



## karoc

Some anecdotal information for you here. After persisting with trying to get my Team Group 6400 Kit (Hynix) stable on my Asus Z690 APEX, I eventually decided to purchase a new motherboard as I heard stories of the A channel on the APEX board being a bit dodgy. I confirmed this to be the case with mine too by testing my DIMMs in both channels separately and could reproduce errors consistently.

After switching over to an Asus Z690 Hero, the same kit appears to be stable with basic XMP1 and XMP2 settings right off the bat, even with the 0811 bios.

This is of course disappointing considering what the Apex board is supposed to be but I'm not the first person to note this. Someone in the Hwbot fourms is saying the same thing, as is Buildzoid on Youtube. Dare I say, Asus have some QC issues with some of these boards.


----------



## mattxx88

opt33 said:


> I ordered same 6200c36 from corsair after seeing your post, hopefully same hynix so can try vs my samsung.... but just saw fedex tracking, didnt even think about it coming from taiwan and no estimate delivery date though been through 2 sites in taiwan.
> 
> Did you (or anyone else for that matter) order from corsair recently and know rough delivery times given current situation, ie week, 2,3?


me too, shipped yesterday mine


----------



## asdkj1740

new msi beta bios today
force 





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I think I found a good setting...


----------



## asdkj1740

DDR5 is no longer a sidegrade - ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40 2x 16 GB kit in the test with overclocking and teardown | igor'sLAB


Today we're looking at the next high-performance upgrade level of DDR5 memory, in the form of the ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40 2x 16 GB kit. Our sample is based on the SK Hynix M-Die memory…




www.igorslab.de




*ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40*


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Do you think now a day it makes any sense to run a Ram_Drive like Asus Ram_Cache_III to take advantage of the memory speed?









Ram_Cache


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## sugi0lover

I received Gskill 6400 CL32 kits and disassembled.
Pmic is different from 4800 CL40 Hynix.
Above : Gskill 6400cl32
Below : Basic Hynix 4800cl40


----------



## Carillo

jollib said:


> What kind of ram watercooling are you doing. trying to get some inspiration on how I should watercool my ram.


super cool from Thailand


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> I received Gskill 6400 CL32 kits and disassembled.
> Pmic is different from 4800 CL40 Hynix.
> Above : Gskill 6400cl32
> Below : Basic Hynix 4800cl40
> View attachment 2545278


Cool  just got tracking for this kit , so guess I have them sometime next week. Will be interesting so see how they compare to the good Dell sticks


----------



## jomama22

Carillo said:


> Here is this guy again. Please elaborate
> 0,5% Bclk


Because Aida takes your score and then applies a multiplier based on the bclk ratio.

You can ask others here if you don't believe me. Also, buildzoid himself commented about it (in the comments section) in his latest ddr5 video. This isn't new news and has been known since release...

Also, not sure why you're salty with me. I made one incorrect statement on a ram heatsink and admitted I was incorrect. If that's your problem then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## fortecosi

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think I found a good setting...
> 
> View attachment 2545251
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545250
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545249
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545266


go to DRAM settings, and under Training algos switch Round Trip Latency to ENABLE.


----------



## fortecosi

karoc said:


> Some anecdotal information for you here. After persisting with trying to get my Team Group 6400 Kit (Hynix) stable on my Asus Z690 APEX, I eventually decided to purchase a new motherboard as I heard stories of the A channel on the APEX board being a bit dodgy. I confirmed this to be the case with mine too by testing my DIMMs in both channels separately and could reproduce errors consistently.
> 
> After switching over to an Asus Z690 Hero, the same kit appears to be stable with basic XMP1 and XMP2 settings right off the bat, even with the 0811 bios.
> 
> This is of course disappointing considering what the Apex board is supposed to be but I'm not the first person to note this. Someone in the Hwbot fourms is saying the same thing, as is Buildzoid on Youtube. Dare I say, Asus have some QC issues with some of these boards.


Yeah, you need to have some basic knowledge. If you have no idea what to do, what to adjust, how to play with voltage, timings, skews, algos etc.... it´s always hit and miss for those people. Buildzoid is sponsored by Gigabyte, have no clue about most ASUS settings, so don´t listen him too much.


----------



## karoc

fortecosi said:


> Yeah, you need to have some basic knowledge. If you have no idea what to do, what to adjust, how to play with voltage, timings, skews, algos etc.... it´s always hit and miss for those people. Buildzoid is sponsored by Gigabyte, have no clue about most ASUS settings, so don´t listen him too much.


You've made quite the assumption. I did try for days with different voltages (including higher), timings and so on. The point still stands, at the rated operating voltage of the sticks utilising XMP1 or XMP2, whichever stick I chose was persistently failing RAM tests in the A1 DIMM slot and not in the B1 DIMM slot. This is very much in line with what Buildzoid and others have been saying.

Then given I take the exact same RAM sticks and put them in a new motherboard and everything works fine, this points to a hardware issue with the APEX board. It's basic diagnostics.

If people want to have a superiority complex rather than acknowledge the possibility of a hardware issue, then that's fine, I'm just sharing my lived experience in case anyone else is having similar issues and doesn't want to waste their life thinking they're doing something wrong.


----------



## roooo

sugi0lover said:


> I received Gskill 6400 CL32 kits and disassembled.
> Pmic is different from 4800 CL40 Hynix.
> Above : Gskill 6400cl32
> Below : Basic Hynix 4800cl40
> View attachment 2545278


Can you already share some results for the Gskill 6400C32 kit?


----------



## jollib

delete


----------



## jollib

sugi0lover said:


> I received Gskill 6400 CL32 kits and disassembled.
> Pmic is different from 4800 CL40 Hynix.
> Above : Gskill 6400cl32
> Below : Basic Hynix 4800cl40
> View attachment 2545278


so the gskill 6400cl32 is recenty ordered from newegg? This part number 
*6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*


----------



## Sayenah

karoc said:


> You've made quite the assumption. I did try for days with different voltages (including higher), timings and so on. The point still stands, at the rated operating voltage of the sticks utilising XMP1 or XMP2, whichever stick I chose was persistently failing RAM tests in the A1 DIMM slot and not in the B1 DIMM slot. This is very much in line with what Buildzoid and others have been saying.
> 
> Then given I take the exact same RAM sticks and put them in a new motherboard and everything works fine, this points to a hardware issue with the APEX board. It's basic diagnostics.
> 
> If people want to have a superiority complex rather than acknowledge the possibility of a hardware issue, then that's fine, I'm just sharing my lived experience in case anyone else is having similar issues and doesn't want to waste their life thinking they're doing something wrong.


Seems like here is the thread you were quoting in your previous post: ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX | APEX 14

Two users reported similar findings: both boards in question showed inconsistent boot behavior between the two channels, and in both cases channel A was lagging behind.

I had a hunch something like this was up with Z690 boards, but I didnt know enough to reach a conclusion.

also, I get that Buildzoid is sponsored by Gigabyte and isn’t the “end all, be all”, but he is quiet fair in his opinion. Just a week ago I had a post on Reddit regarding my extreme and its weird boot behavior with the T-Force 6400 RAM in the primary two channels. That’s when I started learning about the stability benefits of 1 DPC boards etc etc. I asked him what he would favor out of the Tachyon, the Unify-X, and the Apex, and he mentioned he would take the UnifyX… and I am beginning to see why that’s being considered a better board than the Z690.

everything I am finding out about the Apex, and the rest of Asus Z690 lineup tells me that the hardware has deficiencies and QC issues and “it is not just the BIOS” (a phrase which sparks a bit of a debate in the Asus Z690 BIOS thread).

only if MSI UnifyX had Thunderbolt 4 this decision would be so easy.


----------



## sugi0lover

jollib said:


> so the gskill 6400cl32 is recenty ordered from newegg? This part number
> *6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*


I got the kit from Korean PC shop. I will share some OC results later~


----------



## karoc

Sayenah said:


> Seems like here is the thread you were quoting in your previous post: ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX | APEX 14
> 
> Two users reported similar findings: both boards in question showed inconsistent boot behavior between the two channels, and in both cases channel A was lagging behind.
> 
> I had a hunch something like this was up with Z690 boards, but I didnt know enough to reach a conclusion.
> 
> also, I get that Buildzoid is sponsored by Gigabyte and isn’t the “end all, be all”, but he is quiet fair in his opinion. Just a week ago I had a post on Reddit regarding my extreme and its weird boot behavior with the T-Force 6400 RAM in the primary two channels. That’s when I started learning about the stability benefits of 1 DPC boards etc etc. I asked him what he would favor out of the Tachyon, the Unify-X, and the Apex, and he mentioned he would take the UnifyX… and I am beginning to see why that’s being considered a better board than the Z690.
> 
> everything I am finding out about the Apex, and the rest of Asus Z690 lineup tells me that the hardware has deficiencies and QC issues and “it is not just the BIOS” (a phrase which sparks a bit of a debate in the Asus Z690 BIOS thread).
> 
> only if MSI UnifyX had Thunderbolt 4 this decision would be so easy.


Thanks for chipping in, and yes I was going to mention that Buildzoid was currently favouring the MSI Unify-X. I watched his breakdown on it and it looks pretty good. I have a BNIB MSI Z690-Unify (not the X version) I was going to try but in fairness, the Asus Z690 Hero does appear to be working alright at the moment (even those it's a 4 DIMM board). Still tempted to try the MSI board though as my latest experience with the APEX has made me worry a little bit about ASUS if I'm honest. Maybe I'm being concerned unfairly!


----------



## J_Lab4645

Asus Z690 Apex, Bios 0811
Gskill Trident Z5
DDR5-6000MHz CL36-36-36-76 1.30V
32GB (2x16GB) 
Just a head's up- Updated to new Bios Version 1003 and new bios seems to have loosened up some memory timings. Tried to revert them manually but something under the hood isn't providing optimal results. Went back to 0811 and all good again. Lesson: (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) YMMV. Giver 'er a go and see but no bueno for me.


----------



## Sayenah

karoc said:


> Thanks for chipping in, and yes I was going to mention that Buildzoid was currently favouring the MSI Unify-X. I watched his breakdown on it and it looks pretty good. I have a BNIB MSI Z690-Unify (not the X version) I was going to try but in fairness, the Asus Z690 Hero does appear to be working alright at the moment (even those it's a 4 DIMM board). Still tempted to try the MSI board though as my latest experience with the APEX has made me worry a little bit about ASUS if I'm honest. Maybe I'm being concerned unfairly!


If you are going to try any MSI, try the UnifyX  I don’t think you are being unfair in your concern; seems like people blame the BIOS as a default but I am now smelling some hardware QC issues (if the whole Hero debacle doesn’t help Asus either).

I have both the Z690 Apex (which I got after returning the Extreme) and the UnifyX BNIB sitting to go in my build this weekend. I truly cannot decide which seal to break haha. I have flip flopped between the two so much!


----------



## centvalny

From the first ROG 2 dimms Impact board we know that thre always difference between 2 sockets, thats why we use outer socket for highest LN2 valids.
The most important is how these 2 sockets combined to achieve the highest and stable ram clock, that is a $64K question.
Anyone can boot 7400 in each socket but it depends on IMC and ram chips. Some hynix kits can do 7Kc30 some dont. Not even those 6400 kits.

Bway 7400c32 cpu water/ram air work in progress....


----------



## Sayenah

centvalny said:


> From the first ROG 2 dimms Impact board we know that always there a difference between 2 sockets, thats why we always use outer socket for highest LN2 valids.
> The most important is how these 2 sockets combined to achieve the highest and stable highest ram clock, that is a $64K question.
> Anyone can boot 7400 in each socket but it depends on IMC, ram chips and memory modules combination, Some hynix kits can do 7Kc30 some dont. Not even those 6400 kits.
> 
> Bway 7400 cpu water/ram air work in progress....
> View attachment 2545323


totally fair points! I agree with everything you said. It is a mix of so many different factors plus there will always be hardware variances within channels, of course.

however things are a little too loose with Asus this time around. Like stuff that’s on the QVL is literally not working on XMP. That’s a problem, and a very “Asus problem” at that, since MSI has shown that a more robust and consistent user experience is absolutely possible. No need to defend Asus on that.


----------



## centvalny

Sayenah said:


> totally fair points! I agree with everything you said. It is a mix of so many different factors plus there will always be hardware variances within channels, of course.
> 
> however things are a little too loose with Asus this time around. Like stuff that’s on the QVL is literally not working on XMP. That’s a problem, and a very “Asus problem” at that, since MSI has shown that a more robust and consistent user experience is absolutely possible. No need to defend Asus on that.


My opinion just based on facts, experience and real testing specific to Apex Z690. I dont care with other brand. This is an early stage of Ddr5 for everyone of us and it is not as smooth as Ddr2,3 and 4 migration.


----------



## Sayenah

centvalny said:


> My opinion just based on facts, experience and real testing specific to Apex Z690. I dont care with other brand. This is an early stage of Ddr5 for everyone of us and it is not as smooth as Ddr2,3 and 4 migration.


I respect your experience. However, yes, you should care for other brands. If a competing product is providing a better, more robust experience, then as a consumer you should hold Asus to the raised bar set by others. Defending them for dropping the proverbial ball is neither good for you, the consumer, nor the market in general 

I don’t know what is it with brand loyalty and consumer products.

when Asus starts being on top again, happy to revert my opinion.


----------



## opt33

hynix settings 32-39-39 1.4v on new gskill kits works well on my samsung 6000u kit and usually need ~.03v more for CR1, so first run 32-39-39 CR1 1.44 vdd/vddq, 1.26 vdd2, sa usual 1.0. Just 15mins so far, but have to head back to work will see if stable when return, then either tighten latency or try lower volts. 
edit, made it through without errors.


----------



## centvalny

sugi0lover said:


> I received Gskill 6400 CL32 kits and disassembled.
> Pmic is different from 4800 CL40 Hynix.
> Above : Gskill 6400cl32
> Below : Basic Hynix 4800cl40
> View attachment 2545278


Looks like my Anacomda4800 basic black pcb but with locked Richtek pmic 1.43V


----------



## SoldierRBT

Using @cstkl1 RTLs method I was able to run 61/56/61/56 instead of 62/56/62/57 and got a little better latency and 1min less in TM5. Had to adjust some voltages. Thanks!
12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 30-37-37 1T 1.45v VDD/VDDQ 0.925v SA 1.2625v MC


----------



## roooo

SoldierRBT said:


> Using @cstkl1 RTLs method ....


Mind sharing a linked post with some details about that method? ;-)


----------



## mattxx88

roooo said:


> Mind sharing a linked post with some details about that method? ;-)


think they were talking about it here








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


My thermal camera shows similar temp than what I can read from hwinfo. Using 4 sticks, central sticks is 5°C hotter than the external. Lots of tests passed @ 5GHz C36 on four sticks. If I will remain stable for other days, I will do a "summer test" by turning all the fan off to get higher...




www.overclock.net


----------



## fortecosi

karoc said:


> You've made quite the assumption. I did try for days with different voltages (including higher), timings and so on. The point still stands, at the rated operating voltage of the sticks utilising XMP1 or XMP2, whichever stick I chose was persistently failing RAM tests in the A1 DIMM slot and not in the B1 DIMM slot. This is very much in line with what Buildzoid and others have been saying.
> 
> Then given I take the exact same RAM sticks and put them in a new motherboard and everything works fine, this points to a hardware issue with the APEX board. It's basic diagnostics.
> 
> If people want to have a superiority complex rather than acknowledge the possibility of a hardware issue, then that's fine, I'm just sharing my lived experience in case anyone else is having similar issues and doesn't want to waste their life thinking they're doing something wrong.


Did you try it with the same CPU? Because IMC plays big role too. Anyway I don´t agree XMP profiles should always work. Even it´s lite OC, it is still an OC, and as such nothing is guaranteed. Esp. at the very beginning of the DDR5 era. As well, you could have totally different experience with another pair of dram, as it´s board + dram + cpu which has to be in the same mood  You could be fine with another cpu, or another ram kit. The things are not so easy to catch.


----------



## GQNerd

Ordered a Kingston 6000 CL40 kit on Ebay, was hoping for Hynix… Ended up receiving a 5200 CL40 Samsung kit instead… I’m pissed. #endrant


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Miguelios said:


> Ordered a Kingston 6000 CL40 kit on Ebay, was hoping for Hynix… Ended up receiving a 5200 CL40 Samsung kit instead… I’m pissed. #endrant


I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...

This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...

Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
Sa 0.95v
Mc 1.293v


----------



## GQNerd

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...
> 
> This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...
> 
> Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
> Sa 0.95v
> Mc 1.293v
> 
> View attachment 2545374
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545373


Really? Wow, that’s not that great.. I have the Unify X and was waiting to build today. Super bummed.. 

I’d try this kit out, but I paid too much for 5200 c40, so F* that.

Might just grab some Gskill 6000 c36 and call it a day..


----------



## Sayenah

Miguelios said:


> Really? Wow, that’s not that great.. I have the Unify X and was waiting to build today. Super bummed..
> 
> I’d try this kit out, but I paid too much for 5200 c40, so F* that.
> 
> Might just grab some Gskill 6000 c36 and call it a day..


Or a G.Skill 6400 C32 Z5


----------



## opt33

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...
> 
> This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...
> 
> Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
> Sa 0.95v
> Mc 1.293v


Could be binning that is now being done. 

Corsair has 6400c36 1.35 and 6200C36 1.30 and both of those probably similar to gskills top bin 6400c32 at 1.4.

If hynix is now being heavily binned, need to buy either corsair or gskill top bin or end up with worst kits.


----------



## Sayenah

opt33 said:


> Could be binning that is now being done.
> 
> Corsair has 6400c36 1.35 and 6200C36 1.30 and both of those probably similar to gskills top bin 6400c32 at 1.4.
> 
> If hynix is now being heavily binned, need to buy either corsair or gskill top bin or end up with worst kits.


unless I am wrong, that Corsair 6400 is C38


----------



## opt33

Sayenah said:


> unless I am wrong, that Corsair 6400 is C38


actually just checked it is 6400 c38. I bought corsair this time for heatsink 6200c36 1.3, should easily scale to 6400c32-39-39 at 1.4 like gskill, I would think both both corsair's top bins and gskills top bins would perform similar as would expect both getting similar hynix batches, but will be interesting to see. But would not buy lower binned ones or c40 anymore especially if last result are going to be typical.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I installed Asus Ram Cache III to take advantage of the ram speed...












This is the CrystalDisk results...


Samsung SSD 980 PRO 250GB









XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB









Samsung SSD 970 EVO 1TB


----------



## jeiselramos

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...
> 
> This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...
> 
> Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
> Sa 0.95v
> Mc 1.293v
> 
> View attachment 2545374
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545373


Did you set mch full check disable, maximus tweak mode 2, early command training disable, late command training enable, turn around timing training disable, round trip latency enable? 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## karoc

fortecosi said:


> Did you try it with the same CPU? Because IMC plays big role too. Anyway I don´t agree XMP profiles should always work. Even it´s lite OC, it is still an OC, and as such nothing is guaranteed. Esp. at the very beginning of the DDR5 era. As well, you could have totally different experience with another pair of dram, as it´s board + dram + cpu which has to be in the same mood  You could be fine with another cpu, or another ram kit. The things are not so easy to catch.


Yep, everything else was exactly the same. The only difference was the motherboard which further adds fuel to the APEX motherboard not working as advertised.

I tried multiple other RAM kits on the APEX board and they all had issues. They were mostly Samsung kits though but even the Hynix kit on the QVL for the APEX didn't work as advertised... and only works on the Hero as I mentioned before. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Falkentyne

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...
> 
> This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...
> 
> Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
> Sa 0.95v
> Mc 1.293v
> 
> View attachment 2545374
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545373


You need to fix your latency. You shouldn't be scoring worse than begger Micron ram running slower!


----------



## bl4ckdot

This is my new daily. ycruncher / karhu / occt stable. 1.2 SA (can be lowered as this doesnt do anything but whatever) / 1.3 cpu vddq / 1.44 VDD2 / 1.45 on dimm.


----------



## knock

Tachyon is in the house


----------



## Sayenah

karoc said:


> Yep, everything else was exactly the same. The only difference was the motherboard which further adds fuel to the APEX motherboard not working as advertised.
> 
> I tried multiple other RAM kits on the APEX board and they all had issues. They were mostly Samsung kits though but even the Hynix kit on the QVL for the APEX didn't work as advertised... and only works on the Hero as I mentioned before. 🤷‍♂️


Your post and those Hwbot forum data points were all I needed to make up my mind on the UnifyX. Absolute beast of a board.

if you can swap your Unify out for a UnifyX, do so.


----------



## Forsaken1

knock said:


> Tachyon is in the house
> View attachment 2545402


Bench monster.Good luck.
Gold cup for XS.


----------



## sugi0lover

Fyr, Gskill 6400 cl32 ram cover doesn't contact pmic part.


----------



## Sayenah

sugi0lover said:


> Fyr, Gskill 6400 cl32 ram cover doesn't contact pmic part.
> View attachment 2545407


excuse my ignorance here, but isnt that a bad thing? Like how is it conducting away generated heat if it isn’t in contact with the metallic ram cover (heat-spreader)? Putting a thermal pad to create that contact would alleviate that problem, no?


----------



## knock

Forsaken1 said:


> Bench monster.Good luck.
> Gold cup for XS.
> 
> View attachment 2545406


Thanks. I'll be doing the same, i3 and Pentium though. At least until I find out if my Kingston's are good enough to bench with.


----------



## Forsaken1

sugi0lover said:


> Fyr, Gskill 6400 cl32 ram cover doesn't contact pmic part.
> View attachment 2545407


gskill dropping the ball with Ddr5.Next thing you know.They will be gone like OCZ


----------



## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> Fyr, Gskill 6400 cl32 ram cover doesn't contact pmic part.
> View attachment 2545407


@sugi0lover Was it hard to remove the heatsink?


----------



## sugi0lover

Sayenah said:


> excuse my ignorance here, but isnt that a bad thing? Like how is it conducting away generated heat if it isn’t in contact with the metallic ram cover (heat-spreader)? Putting a thermal pad to create that contact would alleviate that problem, no?


I think cooling pmic helps overclocking.


satinghostrider said:


> @sugi0lover Was it hard to remove the heatsink?


So easy. Just blow hairdryer for 40 sec and I removed it with gentle force.
Took 3min to do both sticks.


----------



## lolhaxz

6000 C36 (Gskill 6000 C36 / Samsung sticks) is about all my sticks will participate in.... C34 and 6200MHz both fail after short duration - not sure if its the board or the sticks.... CR1 (also does not boot without MRC full check off, which is bad news in of itself) behaves the same as C34 or 6200MHz, errors after 3-4 mins.

No difference between 811 and 1003 for me.


----------



## Mr.Vegas

sugi0lover said:


> Fyr, Gskill 6400 cl32 ram cover doesn't contact pmic part.
> View attachment 2545407


Whats the process of assembling it all back after you add a thermal pad over pmic? Do you need to replace the stickers? 
[BTW there are paste-like thermal pads, they like thermal paste but used to replace thermal pads up to 3mm thick, so its easier to use and when you assemble two parts it doesn't create positive pressure, it spreads out so nothing pushes on the chips to damage them]?


----------



## sugi0lover

Mr.Vegas said:


> Whats the process of assembling it all back after you add a thermal pad over pmic? Do you need to replace the stickers?
> [BTW there are paste-like thermal pads, they like thermal paste but used to replace thermal pads up to 3mm thick, so its easier to use and when you assemble two parts it doesn't create positive pressure, it spreads out so nothing pushes on the chips to damage them]?


I use custom ram cover for watercooling not the original one.


----------



## Sayenah

Mr.Vegas said:


> Whats the process of assembling it all back after you add a thermal pad over pmic? Do you need to replace the stickers?
> [BTW there are paste-like thermal pads, they like thermal paste but used to replace thermal pads up to 3mm thick, so its easier to use and when you assemble two parts it doesn't create positive pressure, it spreads out so nothing pushes on the chips to damage them]?


Won’t that just be thermal… paste? BTW, I bought this from Amazon for NVME and it tends to exhibit that “paste-like” behavior as you mentioned. 

Thermal Pad 1mm 12.8 W/mK,... Amazon.com

Now when it comes to putting thermal pads on these G.Skill RAMs, apart from PMIC what else needs it?

Also, when it comes to NVMEs, what I have heard is that the NAND likes to be toasty so leaving thermal pads off it is actually a good thing. Any such considerations regarding the components of these RAM sticks?


----------



## lolhaxz

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...
> 
> This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...
> 
> Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
> Sa 0.95v
> Mc 1.293v


0.95v SA might look stable - but it probably isn't... I would recommend just leaving it on auto to begin with, 1.23v-1.25v works better for me than 0.95v. anything in between is a dice roll... 0.95v seems to result in late test random errors, while looking stable 20-30 mins in.

Be interesting to see how far you get with the extreme, It's been difficult for me to see stability beyond 6000-6133 and below CL36 - but Samsung sticks which have questionable limits to begin with.

Fairly convinced its the board contributing heavily myself, 6400MHz with MRC full check boots fine (although you can certainly see the RTL's getting hairy), CL32 boots fine... just random errors in Test 6 (memtest) ... backing off the RTL's make it go much longer without errors, infact on some boots, no errors.


----------



## satinghostrider

lolhaxz said:


> 6000 C36 (Gskill 6000 C36 / Samsung sticks) is about all my sticks will participate in.... C34 and 6200MHz both fail after short duration - not sure if its the board or the sticks.... CR1 (also does not boot without MRC full check off, which is bad news in of itself) behaves the same as C34 or 6200MHz, errors after 3-4 mins.
> 
> No difference between 811 and 1003 for me.
> 
> View attachment 2545415
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545417


Exactly the same for me. 6000Mhz C32 1T is the max I can go with no errors on my board.6200 errors within a short time after launching TM5.


----------



## Nizzen

lolhaxz said:


> 0.95v SA might look stable - but it probably isn't... I would recommend just leaving it on auto to begin with, 1.23v-1.25v works better for me than 0.95v. anything in between is a dice roll... 0.95v seems to result in late test random errors, while looking stable 20-30 mins in.
> 
> Be interesting to see how far you get with the extreme, It's been difficult for me to see stability beyond 6000-6133 and below CL36 - but Samsung sticks which have questionable limits to begin with.
> 
> Fairly convinced its the board contributing heavily myself, 6400MHz with MRC full check boots fine (although you can certainly see the RTL's getting hairy), CL32 boots fine... just random errors in Test 6 (memtest) ... backing off the RTL's make it go much longer without errors, infact on some boots, no errors.


6600 2t tight, and apex is setting Auto 1.32v vccSA 😅

Ps: used 1.55 SA on 10900k for 4700c17


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Looks like my Anacomda4800 basic black pcb but with locked Richtek pmic 1.43V
> View attachment 2545333


That wouldn't be great if its a top bin G.Skill part and the voltage was locked, i'd be P****D


----------



## mikasalo500

Hi guys
i have the z690 extreme and just some memory here. Samsung 6000c36, fury 6000c40 and now the Teamgroup 6400c40. No matter what I do I can't get over 5600 mhz. I tried everything but no chance. Therefore, I have now achieved good timings with 5600. Do you have any tips what else I could try? Or is my extreme just bad?


----------



## Sayenah

mikasalo500 said:


> Hi guys
> i have the z690 extreme and just some memory here. Samsung 6000c36, fury 6000c40 and now the Teamgroup 6400c40. No matter what I do I can't get over 5600 mhz. I tried everything but no chance. Therefore, I have now achieved good timings with 5600. Do you have any tips what else I could try? Or is my extreme just bad?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545445



Your Extreme is not bad; your extreme is just limited because of its daisy chain topology. It is a miracle when Memtest isn’t spitting errors beyond 5600. With my extreme I could get up to 6400 but… with errors (same Team Group RAM as yours). Stock XMP. I knocked RAM down to 6200 and tightened the timings to 32-38-38 and bumped up the voltage to 1.45. It was stable until a cold boot (way around that is to unplug the PSU and boot again, however even then it is unreliable. Besides, no on should have to do this). 

Anyway, long story short, ended up returning the Extreme and got a proper single DPC board UnifyX Z690 (current favorite since it does so well with RAM compatibility; have an Z690 Apex as well and may put it in the other build). 

Who knows, maybe some magical BIOS update will sort out these issues on 4 DIMM boards… or, the greater likelihood is that it is the best your Extreme will ever be able to do, which is a sorry shame given that DDR5 will only get faster from here. 

Just a data point; I am new to all this so take it with a handful of salt.


----------



## Simkin

Forsaken1 said:


> gskill dropping the ball with Ddr5.Next thing you know.They will be gone like OCZ


Yep, selling my Z5 and have bought some Team Group Delta 6200 instead.


----------



## roooo

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'm waiting the RAM cooler I bought arrives...
> When testing, they hit >60C


Which one did you order?


----------



## lolhaxz

mikasalo500 said:


> Hi guys
> i have the z690 extreme and just some memory here. Samsung 6000c36, fury 6000c40 and now the Teamgroup 6400c40. No matter what I do I can't get over 5600 mhz. I tried everything but no chance. Therefore, I have now achieved good timings with 5600. Do you have any tips what else I could try? Or is my extreme just bad?


1. I assume you are not trying to run CR1 at 6000+ ?

2. And are you _absolutely_ confident that your 4.2GHz cache is stable? ie, can you pass Cinebench R15 20-30 times in a row? ... this will only get worse as memory frequency increases... 4.2GHz is on the high side with eff cores enabled (NICE! if it is stable)

3. The other thing, at least originally with micron memory, I had issues until I upped the Atom L2 Cluster voltage (and ever since then I've just ran offset mode +50mv, 200+mv is safe here, so 50mv won't hurt.) ... haven't tested if its required on Samsung or is just a general high frequency thing.

Last time I tried to pointed out that I think the Extreme is clearly near its limits at 6000MHz I got jumped on by a few Apex fan boys, someone thinking because their Apex does 7000MHz (like this even remotely has anything to do with the Extreme) and that 6400MHz is QVL it is supposedly capable of running tight timings at that frequency... we know (or should know) all the ASUS 4-dimm boards overstate their max memory frequencies. (yes, yes blah blah IMC matters etc... but we're not talking about apex stz 9000MHZ CL1 here)

I do expect you should be able to get to "semi" tight timings at 6000MHz CR2 assuming your RAM is capable of such (and it seems like you have multiple kits) - something is not right... I rekon try number 3, start with complete AUTO timings first, except primaries.... 6000MHz, CR2 ... then try number 3... auto MC and SA voltage. Memtest test6 is best for quick confirmation.

But lulz, all that aside, your latency is better than mine at CL36 6000 CR2.. I'd take the lower latency, _slightly_ lower bandwidth, over higher latency and _slightly_ higher bandwidth.


----------



## roooo

SuperMumrik said:


> [email protected] dayli needs some trifecta binning(cpu, ram and mb), but I'm sure you can do a bit better than me..
> My IMC seems to crap itself right before @6400 1T ([email protected] is fine).
> 
> View attachment 2544669
> 
> (just did a verification that tRFCpb 250 is ok)


Dumb question: what memtest is this?


----------



## roooo

owikh84 said:


> Put the Noctua A6x25 fans below that fan bracket, but you need to trim one side of the bracket a bit because these Noctua fans are slightly wider.
> 
> View attachment 2544861


So if I got that right the fans are on top of the bracket by default, which means there should be plenty of space for the Apex's M2 DIMM module?


----------



## SuperMumrik

roooo said:


> Dumb question: what memtest is this?





RAM Test - Karhu Software


----------



## roooo

SuperMumrik said:


> RAM Test - Karhu Software


Ah thanks, that's Karhu, good to know


----------



## snakeeyes111

Nizzen said:


> 6600 2t tight, and apex is setting Auto 1.32v vccSA 😅
> 
> Ps: used 1.55 SA on 10900k for 4700c17


10900k is 1/1 and not 1/2.... so imc only handle 3300. Go 3300mhz ram on 10900k and See what imc need 😅. 

And dont forget, we have 2 IMC inside the 12900.


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> Ah thanks, that's Karhu, good to know


This is my favourite to find errors fast. Time is money, so this software works best for me.
First Karhu, then Battlefield V or 2042, then HCI


----------



## Simkin

roooo said:


> Which one did you order?


Seems like this one is popular, have ordered it myself. And you can change the 60mm fans with Noctua ones (NF-A6x25)









Alseye RAM RGB Cooling Fan Ram Memory Cooler With Dual 60mm Fan PWM 1500-4000rpm | eBay


Dual 6025 PWM fan. Enhanced cooling. Adjustable fan position to avoid interference.



www.ebay.com


----------



## munternet

Can anyone confirm if this data is reliable? And also if these overclock ok? 2 x 16GB
Also what is the best BIOS for the Apex now and where can I find it?
Cheers


----------



## lolhaxz

So, repeating what we already know....

30 minutes with dedicated fan = fine, 49C Max.... 30 mins in removed the fan, upto 63c after 15 minutes (45 mins in), failed.

Testing again for full 60 minutes to see if no errors occur with fan.

You'd think there was already enough god damn random airflow.

Even at 1.3v to lower temps further.









Rainbow puke + ghetto fan









[edit] and test completed.








VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX = 1.3V, 6000 CL34, 1.275 IMC VDD, 1.23V SA - no achievement, but previously not stable at 65C 1.43v... I guess keep your Samsung's under 50C ideally, at least when you are reaching their ceiling... shell try CL32 next, but don't like my chances.


----------



## roooo

Simkin said:


> Seems like this one is popular, have ordered it myself. And you can change the 60mm fans with Noctua ones (NF-A6x25)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alseye RAM RGB Cooling Fan Ram Memory Cooler With Dual 60mm Fan PWM 1500-4000rpm | eBay
> 
> 
> Dual 6025 PWM fan. Enhanced cooling. Adjustable fan position to avoid interference.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Thanks, just ordered one myself. Coming in from CN, let's see how long that takes considering it's Chinese New Year now....


----------



## roooo

lolhaxz said:


> So, repeating what we already know....
> 
> 30 minutes with dedicated fan = fine, 49C Max.... 30 mins in removed the fan, upto 63c after 15 minutes (45 mins in), failed.
> 
> Testing again for full 60 minutes to see if no errors occur with fan.
> 
> You'd think there was already enough god damn random airflow.
> 
> Even at 1.3v to lower temps further.
> 
> View attachment 2545474
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545476


Same here...got a dedicated fan dangling from the case's top and just passed 2 cycles of TM5 Anta777 with my GSkill 6000C36 running at 6000C32 and temps didn't climb much higher than 50C for most of the time.
How did you fix your fan, can't seem to work that out from the pic....?!


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> This is my favourite to find errors fast. Time is money, so this software works best for me.
> First Karhu, then Battlefield V or 2042, then HCI


Gonna give that a shot myself. How much of Karhu coverage do you/people here consider stable? So far only used HCI and just tried TM5 Anta777.


----------



## roooo

Double post, sry.


----------



## SuperMumrik

roooo said:


> Gonna give that a shot myself. How much of Karhu coverage do you/people here consider stable? So far only used HCI and just tried TM5 Anta777.


I tend to do 5000-6000% Karhu first, then a some hours warzone/vangard uncapped + 400-600ish HCI after that for good measures.
As long as I'm stable when pushing high fps it's all good, but ADL seems to be a lot less finicky when it comes to CTD's then CML/CL


----------



## marti69

im using kingstone value 4800 ddr5 with hynix but when i set high dram voltage on apex bios they wont boot any ideas how to bypass the pmic limits on this stick?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

roooo said:


> Which one did you order?


Fury beast KF560C40BBK2-32


----------



## matherror

Hello people ,
I get ddr5 from ddr4 z690 motherbord. Now I have randomly crash. Gaming or internet surfing. It doesn't matter . I upload my cpuz . Why write "unknown" spd page .I dont know really.
My specs
12900k
gskill 6000mhz cl36 samsung c hip
z690 msi carbon wifi mobo
1000 seasonic prime platinium.
Thanks.


----------



## Nizzen

marti69 said:


> im using kingstone value 4800 ddr5 with hynix but when i set high dram voltage on apex bios they wont boot any ideas how to bypass the pmic limits on this stick?


You can't buypass. Buy dell hynix, or other hynix kit with unlocked "pmic"
I have one kingston hynix 4800 with locked pmic. It' good for around 6200 with tight timings. Good enough for most people


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> You can't buypass. Buy dell hynix, or other hynix kit with unlocked "pmic"
> I have one kingston hynix 4800 with locked pmic. It' good for around 6200 with tight timings. Good enough for most people


6000 kits have unlocked pmic?

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jollib

How do you tell if a PMIC is unlocked?


----------



## jeiselramos

jollib said:


> How do you tell if a PMIC is unlocked?


When you enable high voltage mode (on Asus boards) you can go above 1.435 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jollib

jeiselramos said:


> When you enable high voltage mode (on Asus boards) you can go above 1.435
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


Ah so you have to have the stick to try. And asus is the only board that can do it?


----------



## jeiselramos

jollib said:


> Ah so you have to have the stick to try. And asus is the only board that can do it?


I don't know nothing about MSI and Gigabyte Z690 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What is the difference of VDD and VDDQ?

I was running VDD and VDDQ = 1.435v

I can run VDD 1.35 but need VDDQ 1.435...

EDITED:

VDD 1.35v
VDDQ 1.435v
SA 0.95v
MC (Auto) 1.295v


----------



## roooo

Guys, I guess I could take some help  Just got my TeamGroup 6400C40 kit and unfortunately it won't play as expected. Well that's euphemistic.

Background: 12900K SP93 on Apex 0811, running daily stable GSkill 6000C36 at 6000C32 tightened with little effort (including heavy OpenFOAM stuff) so my IMC/MB combo does not seem too shabby.

So I slapped in the TeamGroup kit, tried XMP2 and voltages on Auto - no POST. Reverted my CPU O/C, no difference. Tried to lower mem frequency to 6000, still no POST. Upgraded BIOS to 1101, still no POST. Upped VDD, MC, SA - no POST. Tried the Hynix 6200 preset but still no POST. Swapped the DIMM slots, no change. Basically the QCODE cycles for several minutes until the machine resets and shows the "POSTed in safe mode" message. Currently the sticks won't POST & boot unless I lower mem frequency to 4800. CPUZ correctly shows SK Hynix, UD5-6400.

Are these sticks bugged? Did I miss some hidden "on" switch? Any suggestions what else I could try are much appreciated!


----------



## Csavez™

I have a TG6400 too, what motherboard do you have?
I can see apex, I'm sending over a cmo file tonight.


----------



## roooo

Csavez™ said:


> I have a TG6400 too, what motherboard do you have?


Apex, see my posting above ;-)


----------



## Csavez™

_"A few asked for the cmo files, I uploaded them to wetransfer. (cl28-36)"_


----------



## Csavez™




----------



## affxct

I have the urge to attempt 6600 on my S16B with my Z690 Strix-F. This new BIOS allowed me to get 6400 36-36-36 up and running. I have faith it might be possible. You guys think it can be done?


----------



## affxct

orbitech said:


> Not too shabby for Samsung and my "mediocre" 12900k SP82 (88P,72E)
> VDD/VDDQ/VDDtx 1.53v SA 0.95v MC 1.35
> I'm fairly pleased.. More than that I need tons of voltage.. And my CPU runs too hot for daily use.. Will test for 24/7 use extensively till now TM5 [email protected] is pass with this


What did you find the limit of your i9 to be? I have an SP 81 with (91P/62E).


----------



## Nizzen

jeiselramos said:


> 6000 kits have unlocked pmic?
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


Kingston Fury beast 6000 Hynix
Samsung 6000 Trident Z Samsung

2x kits with 6000mhz I have that I tested.
Most high frequency kits have unlocked pmic I think.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> I have the urge to attempt 6600 on my S16B with my Z690 Strix-F. This new BIOS allowed me to get 6400 36-36-36 up and running. I have faith it might be possible. You guys think it can be done?


I don't think so.I'd love to be proven wrong on this one. Even 6400c36 is pretty wild if stable on Strix F!

Good luck


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> I don't think so.I'd love to be proven wrong on this one. Even 6400c36 is pretty wild if stable on Strix F!
> 
> Good luck


It took some doing. I failed HCI horribly overnight on the first batch of semi-stable settings. Had to rework VDD/Q and SA and I managed to get through IBT V2 and tested HCI up to 600%. I think it could've done more but I wanted to leave the house. I've booted 6600 before but just had the usual memory training failures (I think voltage wasn't high enough). I think you might be right though. I imagine I would need 1.55V to make it work, even for just 6600 38-38-38. I've found that flooring tCL and increasing tRCD and tRP on S16B is a lot worse than just running flat values. I'm not totally sure what the explanation would be, but I have like 10 stable profiles AIDA tested and it's a trend across all the screenshots.


----------



## Carillo

Apex 0086 bios seems very good! 

6500 c30 1T tight 

4800 c40 Hynix( still better than all the T-force and Corsair Hynix kits i have tested


----------



## affxct

I've been scouring spec sheets and it seems like some of the Samsung D5 kits are listed as Samsung B, and others are just listed as Samsung. I'm beginning to wonder if the 600036U and 560036U Z5 kits aren't a different Samsung IC.

If you look at the Unify-X's QVL, it specifies a bunch of Samsung Z5 kits that can XMP 6400C36 @ 1.3V, and those are Samsung B-die. It also specifies an N/A 6400C40 1.3V IC.

So that means that none of these part numbers below are S16B? Also what the hell is the A2 variant? Are they referring to PCB layout or what? So freakin' confusing. Anyone have anything to go on?
F5-(6000/5600)U3636E16GA2
F5-(6000/5600)U3636E16GX2
F5-(6000/5600)U4040E16GA2
F5-(6000/5600)U4040E16GX2


----------



## affxct

binned said:


> Anyone have the Asus Rog Strix Z690-F motherboard? Which BIOS version is the most stable and working one to get?
> 
> I have T Force Delta RGB DDR5 (6200). Can anyone get stable working XMP @ 6200 on this motherboard? Please share what bios version and what I need to do.


0811 is decent, but I prefer 0070 and 1003. 0070 and 1003 require a tad bit more uncore voltage, but I think memory training has improved overall and the higher speed bins are not as difficult (impossible) to stabilise.


----------



## roooo

affxct said:


> 0811 is decent, but I prefer 0070 and 1003. 0070 and 1003 require a tad bit more uncore voltage, but I think memory training has improved overall and the higher speed bins are not as difficult (impossible) to stabilise.


Did you try 1101?


----------



## affxct

roooo said:


> Did you try 1101?


The Strix-F has a 1101? I think that may just be Apex and Extreme XD. I think that's the SLI BIOS if I'm correct.

My 6000C36 basic tune passed HCI with 500% coverage after reboots (obviously) on all three of the usable BIOSs. The only adjustment was VCCSA 1.15-1.175 going from 0811->0070/1003.

IMO below 0811 is unusable. With my initial RAM kit and 0803, I couldn't use my PC. It was legit that bad. 0811 made it workable but the 5600C36 kit was a dud and just wasn't able to maintain signal integrity. The 6000C36 kit I got with the store credit has been performing fairly well. It's not mind-blowing but it could definitely be worse.


----------



## Mr.Vegas

Sayenah said:


> Won’t that just be thermal… paste? BTW, I bought this from Amazon for NVME and it tends to exhibit that “paste-like” behavior as you mentioned.
> 
> Thermal Pad 1mm 12.8 W/mK,... Amazon.com
> 
> Now when it comes to putting thermal pads on these G.Skill RAMs, apart from PMIC what else needs it?
> 
> Also, when it comes to NVMEs, what I have heard is that the NAND likes to be toasty so leaving thermal pads off it is actually a good thing. Any such considerations regarding the components of these RAM sticks?


This product, Viscous Thermal Paste for Thermal pad Replacement 








K5 PRO Viscous Thermal Paste for Thermal pad Replacement 60g 3X20g Pack (iPhone, Apple iMac, Sony PS4 & PS3, Xbox, Acer Aspire etc) : Electronics


K5 PRO Viscous Thermal Paste for Thermal pad Replacement 60g 3X20g Pack (iPhone, Apple iMac, Sony PS4 & PS3, Xbox, Acer Aspire etc) : Electronics



www.amazon.com





You cant use normal paste for such thick usage, imagine 3mm of thermal paste?


----------



## affxct

@roooo I just read some of your comments and yeah, it sounds like you're dealing with almost exactly what I was. I tested the BZ ILM mod to try and bring my temps down by a few degrees and guess what? My trusty 6000 kit stopped training. I removed the washers and there you go. I noticed before that my dud 5600C36 kit seemed to behave differently depending on how flush you inserted them into the DIMM slots and how well-positioned the CPU is in the socket (I initially sent both back to my retailer after the unusability with BIOS 0803). I came to realize that more than likely, Intel's high ILM pressure spec is because D5 requires extremely good contact with the DRAM pins. This also seems to be a board-to-board thing because a bunch of batches of ASUS boards begin to error like mad when above 1.25 VDD2 is used. 

Apparently, IMC VDD is the voltage supplied to the DRAM pins in the socket (forgot where I read that). On the other hand some Apex's are sitting at 1.5V IMC VDD which boggles my mind. I'd love to use 1.5. I think there's some or other issue with some ICs and their ability to train relative to your IMC and board/socket variance. Might sound off but I genuinely can't imagine there being any other reasonable explanation. I found that my dud 5600C36 kit was amazing up to 5600 40-40-40-40 1.1V. that spec at JEDEC voltage indicates they were great ICs. They just couldn't train properly above that voltage.

My local major parts retailer is a distro for G.SKILL so after a few YT videos testing on two different ADL chips (and their personal tech dude failing XMP on their 12900, he was able to organize me a return and I dumped the kit. The 6000 kit was literally night and day. It actually scales, although my IMC does have a hard limit with how low it can do in terms of access latency with the Samsung ICs. 1T and stuff like 6400C30 is impossible with this board and IMC even at unreasonable voltages.


----------



## roooo

affxct said:


> My 6000C36 basic tune passed HCI with 500% coverage after reboots (obviously) ....


What do you mean by the reboots part?


----------



## affxct

roooo said:


> What do you mean by the reboots part?


Sometimes changing the BIOS or merely rebooting the PC will destabilize D5 OCs. You often find that the uncore rail is what destabilizes because your ring might start causing clock watchdog timeouts in IBT V2 or Linpack. Sometimes it's a matter of getting the perfect uncore voltage and running DRAM VDD/Q slightly high to help memory training and stabilize the communication with the IMC. Usually, I get math errors with IMC instability or significant memory instability, and I get clock watchdog timeouts exclusively with cache crashes. I validated my daily all-core at 1.35V without RAM tuning so I know any crash is ring/cache or IMC related. Usually, IMC instability and memory instability won't cause direct BSODs unless they're wildly unstable. 

I know that once I start getting math errors or cache crashes, my HCI test is inherently going to error, and vice versa, I know that if I get a bunch of errors in HCI, I probably will eventually get a math error or cache crash in IBT V2 if I leave it running for sufficiently long. It's almost like if your profile trains, the RAM is probably stable, but the IMC and cache are what might not like the configuration. At least that's what it's felt like. The moment the IMC and cache are quite stable at reasonable VCCSA and IMC VDD values, I basically never see an HCI error unless a timing is wildly off.


----------



## lolhaxz

6000CL36 sticks at 6000CL32 - 8 hours of 1.4v VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.3v MC/1.23v SA. Only possible if sticks below (presumably) about 60C.


----------



## affxct

lolhaxz said:


> View attachment 2545592
> 
> 
> 6000CL36 sticks at 6000CL32 - 8 hours of 1.4v VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.275v MC/1.23v SA. Only possible if sticks below (presumably) about 60C.


You find IMC VDD stable at 1.275? I'm wondering what the actual limit is for ASUS. I think 1.275 caused more instability than 1.25 set for me so I've never shot above 1.25, also because I assume it's got something to do with why ASUS boards default to 1.25.


----------



## roooo

affxct said:


> Sometimes changing the BIOS or merely rebooting the PC will destabilize D5 OCs. You often find that the uncore rail is what destabilizes because your ring might start causing clock watchdog timeouts in IBT V2 or Linpack. Sometimes it's a matter of getting the perfect uncore voltage and running DRAM VDD/Q slightly high to help memory training and stabilize the communication with the IMC. Usually, I get math errors with IMC instability or significant memory instability, and I get clock watchdog timeouts exclusively with cache crashes. I validated my daily all-core at 1.35V without RAM tuning so I know any crash is ring/cache or IMC related. Usually IMC instability and memory instability won't cause direct BSODs unless they're wildly unstable.


Thanks, trying to comprehend and digest ;-)
Meanwhile I got the basic issue solved - though I loaded stable defaults after BIOS flash, something must have gone wrong so I loaded defaults again and now the kit does boot.
However, I'm experiencing another strange issue - maybe you have an idea here, too: with both karhu and TM5 the kit will run for more than 1 hour without issues and after I left the room and returned some time later, I figured my machine had rebooted. I have my CPU and Uncore O/C cranked down already, so that should not be an issue. Never saw such behaviour before.
Obviously, there are no entries in the Karhu & TM5 log files later than the ones upon starting the test.


----------



## roooo

affxct said:


> You find IMC VDD stable at 1.275? I'm wondering what the actual limit is for ASUS. I think 1.275 caused more instability than 1.25 set for me so I've never shot above 1.25, also because I assume it's got something to do with why ASUS boards default to 1.25.


My 6000C36 is stable at 6000C32 with 1.26 and heavy CPU and Uncore OC.


----------



## affxct

roooo said:


> Thanks, trying to comprehend and digest ;-)
> Meanwhile I got the basic issue solved - though I loaded stable defaults after BIOS flash, something must have gone wrong so I loaded defaults again and now the kit does boot.
> However, I'm experiencing another strange issue - maybe you have an idea here, too: with both karhu and TM5 the kit will run for more than 1 hour without issues and after I left the room and returned some time later, I figured my machine had rebooted. I have my CPU and Uncore O/C cranked down already, so that should not be an issue. Never saw such behaviour before.


My friend had that issue with a Z690 Ultra and D4. If the PC restarted while testing then you suffered a cache crash. Cache crashes will cause the system to reboot. It likely means your VCCSA rail isn't happy. Check your C drive for a crashdump file, and also check disc cleanup for memory dump files. They'll usually be over a gigabyte. If you have like 5-10GB then those are all crashes you've accumulated. I would almost say reinstall your OS or do DISM and sfc.


----------



## affxct

roooo said:


> My 6000C36 is stable at 6000C32 with 1.26 and heavy CPU and Uncore OC.


1.26 is just 1.25 set with LLC. But yeah, 1.26 observed correlates to what your board would default to (if you have ASUS).


----------



## HellionGR

The revenge of the Samsung IC's on APEX GSKILL 600032U
1.435 VDD/VDDQ
1.25 IMC Voltage
1.25VCSSA
6600 C35/2T Triimed
Z690 APEX
BIOS 0702


----------



## roooo

affxct said:


> My friend had that issue with a Z690 Ultra and D4. If the PC restarted while testing then you suffered a cache crash. Cache crashes will cause the system to reboot. It likely means your VCCSA rail isn't happy. Check your C drive for a crashdump file, and also check disc cleanup for memory dump files. They'll usually be over a gigabyte. If you have like 5-10GB then those are all crashes you've accumulated. I would almost say reinstall your OS or do DISM and sfc.


Fortunately (?) there are no such files. Where can I find error logs in Win10 (I'm using Linux 95% of the time, Win is just for Gaming)?
Ok found them, well there are two critical events logged that correspond to the reboots, but no further info so far.


----------



## Mr.Vegas

Anyone here with Gigabyte Aorus Master z690? Is it OK for RAM OC or pure trash?


----------



## lolhaxz

affxct said:


> You find IMC VDD stable at 1.275? I'm wondering what the actual limit is for ASUS. I think 1.275 caused more instability than 1.25 set for me so I've never shot above 1.25, also because I assume it's got something to do with why ASUS boards default to 1.25.


Looks like I was actually running 1.3v IMC VDD, 1.275 and 1.3v behave about the same from my experience - I presume 1.4v+ is safe here since on DDR4 it runs IMC at VRAM voltage, so I'll just leave it at 1.3v


----------



## affxct

HellionGR said:


> The revenge of the Samsung IC's on APEX GSKILL 600032U
> 1.435 VDD/VDDQ
> 1.25 IMC Voltage
> 1.25VCSSA
> 6600 C35/2T Triimed
> Z690 APEX
> BIOS 0702


Holy crap 6600C36 at 1.435.


----------



## affxct

roooo said:


> Fortunately (?) there are no such files. Where can I find error logs in Win10 (I'm using Linux 95% of the time, Win is just for Gaming)?
> Ok found them, well there are two critical events logged that correspond to the reboots, but no further info so far.


That definitely is a good sign. Uhm that's something I don't quite understand myself. My friend has had them and a bunch of others as well. Some are theorising it's got something to do with C-states. I'm not sure if my friend has had any since the last time we tried some adjustments.


----------



## GQNerd

1.5 hrs later…

Don’t mind the drive for MSRP


----------



## affxct

lolhaxz said:


> Looks like I was actually running 1.3v IMC VDD, 1.275 and 1.3v behave about the same from my experience - I presume 1.4v+ is safe here since on DDR4 it runs IMC at VRAM voltage, so I'll just leave it at 1.3v


I think it's safe up to like 1.6V tbh. It's more so that it causes a bunch of instability. The moment I touch 1.3 everything starts to fall apart. I begin to get notifications saying Edge crashed etc.


----------



## affxct

Miguelios said:


> 1.5 hrs later…
> 
> Don’t mind the drive for MSRP
> 
> View attachment 2545598


Hynix weeeee. I managed to grab Trident Z5 for MSRP but it kinda sucks for OCing.


----------



## Tigra456

Searched the whole thread but found nothing that can help me to stabilize the 6000 c36 with XMP on my Strix F…
Can someone help me pls ?

Bios now 1003…
With the old 0811 i was over 1 hour stable with Testmem5 Anta777 with the following voltages 
VDD/VDDQ 1.35
SA 1.25
MC 1.25
TRX 1.35

but with 1003 this voltages not run.
After I flashed back to 0811 The voltages not worked again. So now I starting again with the 1003 and try to find something to get them stable…

can someone help ?


----------



## affxct

Tigra456 said:


> Searched the whole thread but found nothing that can help me to stabilize the 6000 c36 with XMP on my Strix F…
> Can someone help me pls ?
> 
> Bios now 1003…
> With the old 0811 i was over 1 hour stable with Testmem5 Anta777 with the following voltages
> VDD/VDDQ 1.35
> SA 1.25
> MC 1.25
> TRX 1.35
> 
> but with 1003 this voltages not run.
> After I flashed back to 0811 The voltages not worked again. So now I starting again with the 1003 and try to find something to get them stable…
> 
> can someone help ?


Try SA down at 1.1-1.175. 1.25 is far too high. I personally didn't need 1.35 on TX/VDD/Q either. Those are across three BIOS revisions. It seemed to stick on all three, granted I don't use TM5. The VCCSA changed from 1.15 to 1.175 between BIOSs. By this point once I have it HCI stable and _initially_ IBT V2 stable after enabling fast boot before testing, I just leave it. I'll await a crash that hopefully never comes.


----------



## Tigra456

Okay but only for understanding.
VDD/VDDQ is bound with XMP - also with activating XMP these two are set to 1.30 ?


So i should try lower TRX and SA…And VDD / V too ?


----------



## affxct

Tigra456 said:


> Okay but only for understanding.
> VDD/VDDQ is bound with XMP - also with activating XMP these two are set to 1.30 ?
> 
> 
> So i should try lower TRX and SA…And VDD / V too ?


Uhm, usually you'd leave TX VDDQ at Auto because it matches DRAM VDD/Q, I think DRAM VDD/Q should be fine at 1.3V unless you have exceptionally bad ICs. I once stabilized 6200 36-36-36 at over 1000% HCI at 1.3, but unfortunately, I deleted the screenshot because my entire old batch of OCs destabilized after some Windows corruption caused by a Radeon driver crash. So TX at 1.3 as well yeah, never above DRAM VDDQ. IMC VDD at 1.25 is fine, but you can use less if you want and it _should _work. I definitely think you just need to play around with SA. You're only seeing slight instability so I don't think your RAM is unhappy.

I can't say that it'll work, but you're welcome to try my settings. The 1003 voltages used are 1.1 IMC VDD, 1.3 IVR TX VDDQ, and 1.175 System Agent. Use those with your XMP. You can also try my tRAS and secondaries if you'd like. They should work.


----------



## bigfootnz

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a Hynix 6000... and I don't know if hynix is so good as people are saying...
> 
> This is the best I can do with the limit of 1.435v...
> 
> Vdd / vddq / tx 1.435v
> Sa 0.95v
> Mc 1.293v
> 
> View attachment 2545374
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545373


Roberto check my posts, where you have all what is needed to run same memory on Hero either 6200C30 or 6400C30. Sorry I cannot post link now as I’m replacing my 10900k with 12900k.

Also you can check @owikh84 posts he has same board and mem like you. He is even able to run 6200C30 1T what I’m not able, as obviously Hero is not as a Extreme


----------



## Nizzen

HellionGR said:


> The revenge of the Samsung IC's on APEX GSKILL 600032U
> 1.435 VDD/VDDQ
> 1.25 IMC Voltage
> 1.25VCSSA
> 6600 C35/2T Triimed
> Z690 APEX
> BIOS 0702


If it's stable in Battlefield 2042 for 2 hours, you have a very stable OC on the memory 

I can run ramtest for hours, but crash in BF 2042  Stress the whole pc, tend to be a better test than just memory test.


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> If it's stable in Battlefield 2042 for 2 hours, you have a very stable OC on the memory
> 
> I can run ramtest for hours, but crash in BF 2042  Stress the whole pc, tend to be a better test than just memory test.


How dead is BF 2042 on a scale of 1-10? I really want to grab it, but everyone is raving about how bad it is.


----------



## Xeq54

bigfootnz said:


> Roberto check my posts, where you have all what is needed to run same memory on Hero either 6200C30 or 6400C30. Sorry I cannot post link now as I’m replacing my 10900k with 12900k.
> 
> Also you can check @owikh84 posts he has same board and mem like you. He is even able to run 6200C30 1T what I’m not able, as obviously Hero is not as a Extreme


Can vouch for this, used your 6200cl30 on my Adata Lancer hynix and it runs flawlessly at 1.45/1.45 vdd/q


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> How dead is BF 2042 on a scale of 1-10? I really want to grab it, but everyone is raving about how bad it is.


I play Battlefield games only, so for me it's Ok. Even my daughter likes the game 
I have like 100 things I don't like about the game, but games like Warzone is 10 times worse LOL.


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> I play Battlefield games only, so for me it's Ok. Even my daughter likes the game
> I have like 100 things I don't like about the game, but games like Warzone is 10 times worse LOL.


I despise WZ. I'd play BF 2042 bugs and all, but not if it has no player base and isn't at least fun.


----------



## HellionGR

Still believe the 2 games that crash to desktop asap in modern platforms in 1h 1.5h tops are BF5 BF2042 and APEX Legends. If you dont crash during those you pc is game stable.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> I despise WZ. I'd play BF 2042 bugs and all, but not if it has no player base and isn't at least fun.


Many players in Europe, and haven't seen any AI players the last weeks, so the servers i pretty much full all the time.
Playing mostly CQ 64


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> Many players in Europe, and haven't seen any AI players the last weeks, so the servers i pretty much full all the time.
> Playing mostly CQ 64


That sounds quite promising. There were a bunch of players on South African servers around launch but I'm not sure if they've all quit. COD Vanguard seems to be quite full these days, especially with price cuts.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> That sounds quite promising. There were a bunch of players on South African servers around launch but I'm not sure if they've all quit. COD Vanguard seems to be quite full these days, especially with price cuts.


I'm a Battlefield and Quake player, so no Cod for me. Quake now is just for satisfying my brain


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> I'm a Battlefield and Quake player, so no Cod for me. Quake now is just for satisfying my brain


I've always enjoyed all FPS titles for the most part. Just the BRs don't do it for me (unless it's PUBG). Then again, PUBG isn't a pure FPS title. Damn I really miss the good old 2017 PUBG days.


----------



## jollib

jeiselramos said:


> I don't know nothing about MSI and Gigabyte Z690
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


Can anyone confirm if the unify-x can take advantage of the unlocked pmic sticks?


----------



## sugi0lover

Since I am out of town for a while to celebrate lunar new year, here is the quick update on new Gskill 6400 CL32 kit.
It's like my binned Hynix 4800 CL40 sticks (maybe just a little better)
The below is stable and it is also possible with my Hynix 4800 cl40 sticks.
I am going to try 6933+ when I am back, so no stable capture shot for the below (will update when I am back)

- 6850-28-39-39-28-320-2t (from 6800 bclk oc a liitle bit for fun)
-Voltages
Vdd 1.60 / vddq 1.55 / tx 1.60 / sa 0.95 / mc 1.30
- Ram sticks already on water cooling


----------



## Tigra456

affxct said:


> Uhm, usually you'd leave TX VDDQ at Auto because it matches DRAM VDD/Q, I think DRAM VDD/Q should be fine at 1.3V unless you have exceptionally bad ICs. I once stabilized 6200 36-36-36 at over 1000% HCI at 1.3, but unfortunately, I deleted the screenshot because my entire old batch of OCs destabilized after some Windows corruption caused by a Radeon driver crash. So TX at 1.3 as well yeah, never above DRAM VDDQ. IMC VDD at 1.25 is fine, but you can use less if you want and it _should _work. I definitely think you just need to play around with SA. You're only seeing slight instability so I don't think your RAM is unhappy.
> 
> I can't say that it'll work, but you're welcome to try my settings. The 1003 voltages used are 1.1 IMC VDD, 1.3 IVR TX VDDQ, and 1.175 System Agent. Use those with your XMP. You can also try my tRAS and secondaries if you'd like. They should work.


Your 1003 Voltages created errors after 1 hour Testmem5…

So try now VDD/VDDQ/TRX 1.300, MC 1.25, SA 0,95-1.25… dont know this is the right way…


----------



## sugi0lover

jollib said:


> Can anyone confirm if the unify-x can take advantage of the unlocked pmic sticks?


Except those basic 4800 cl40 sticks, high xmp rams like 6000+ can be pushed higher than 1.435v.


----------



## knock

Yeah takes a long time I can see, much longer than DDR2-4. It appears there's no SA/MC voltage for the i3 but best for me so far is 6400 32-38-38. 

It's going to be a long night lol


----------



## Stockman

knock said:


> Thaiphoon Burner. Can also burn SPDs like the Tachyon but better. Persistent on the actual stick.


Also tried that, but doesn't seem ready for DDR5


----------



## Balaned

I've been reading as much as I can through this thread but I'm unsure which direction to head next. I feel like the time is right to make the move with my 12900K from the TUF and my trusty B-Die memory to a DDR5 platform. The B-Die I'm using is decent and runs well at 4000-CL15 so I want to be sure the move is an improvement. My understanding is that I want a kit with the Hynix controller. What I can't figure out is what sticks I can purchase which will guarantee me Hynix. I do want to overclock the new memory, hoping for 6000+ with decent latency for DDR5. I'm looking at the XPG Lancer or Kingston Fury Beast set, both in 6000 CL40. My understanding is that without seeing the actual heatsink decal there's no way to know for sure what's underneath them. Can anyone direct me to a good set of guaranteed Hynix DDR5 with solid OC potential? The motherboard I'm planning to use is the MSI Unify-X, I would also appreciate having that choice reinforced by those more experienced with the platform. I would like an Asus ROG board personally but I understand MSI is more consistent with memory overclocking. Thank you ahead of time.


----------



## knock

Myea this isn't fun at all lol. Pentium/i3 OC is the light at the end of the tunnel though.


----------



## Falkentyne

Balaned said:


> I've been reading as much as I can through this thread but I'm unsure which direction to head next. I feel like the time is right to make the move with my 12900K from the TUF and my trusty B-Die memory to a DDR5 platform. The B-Die I'm using is decent and runs well at 4000-CL15 so I want to be sure the move is an improvement. My understanding is that I want a kit with the Hynix controller. What I can't figure out is what sticks I can purchase which will guarantee me Hynix. I do want to overclock the new memory, hoping for 6000+ with decent latency for DDR5. I'm looking at the XPG Lancer or Kingston Fury Beast set, both in 6000 CL40. My understanding is that without seeing the actual heatsink decal there's no way to know for sure what's underneath them. Can anyone direct me to a good set of guaranteed Hynix DDR5 with solid OC potential? The motherboard I'm planning to use is the MSI Unify-X, I would also appreciate having that choice reinforced by those more experienced with the platform. I would like an Asus ROG board personally but I understand MSI is more consistent with memory overclocking. Thank you ahead of time.


Is your computer slow? Are you that unhappy with your performance? Or are you trying to play "catch-up" to other people? How much disposable income do you have? Are you sure that money won't be better spent on something else first? Answer those questions then you will know what you need to do or not do.


----------



## Balaned

My computer isn't slow, however the current motherboard and memory will be used in another system with a 12600KF for my grandson who spends quite a bit of time here. It's not going to waste and this was the build plan all along. Since I'll be putting another mobo/ram into my main gaming computer to me it's a good time to make the swap to DDR5. I actually have no issue buying more DDR4 components but would also enjoy giving DDR5 a go for something new. All I'm asking is if there's a set of solid DDR5 which will guarantee me Hynix.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> I've been scouring spec sheets and it seems like some of the Samsung D5 kits are listed as Samsung B, and others are just listed as Samsung. I'm beginning to wonder if the 600036U and 560036U Z5 kits aren't a different Samsung IC.
> 
> If you look at the Unify-X's QVL, it specifies a bunch of Samsung Z5 kits that can XMP 6400C36 @ 1.3V, and those are Samsung B-die. It also specifies an N/A 6400C40 1.3V IC.
> 
> So that means that none of these part numbers below are S16B? Also what the hell is the A2 variant? Are they referring to PCB layout or what? So freakin' confusing. Anyone have anything to go on?
> F5-(6000/5600)U3636E16GA2
> F5-(6000/5600)U3636E16GX2
> F5-(6000/5600)U4040E16GA2
> F5-(6000/5600)U4040E16GX2


get 6400 gskill, only 6400.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Fury beast 6000 cl40 is hynix, but the best I could do (with a lot of help) was 6000 cl32.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> How dead is BF 2042 on a scale of 1-10? I really want to grab it, but everyone is raving about how bad it is.


-100

samsung ddr5=bf2042.
hynix ddr5=bf3+bf1+bf5+bf4+bf1942+bfbc+cs1.5.

ps.
samsung ddr5 without pmic cooling=bf2042 beta.


----------



## munternet

I haven't started overclocking yet but these Adata 6000c40 sticks seem ok.
I enabled xmp1 with no other overclock and it worked straight off so I upped the frequency to 6400 with no other changes and played 4 games of BF 2042 with no problem with a few minutes of anta777 prior to playing
I then tried 7000 with no other changes and it trained well and the circle thing started spinning at the start of windows then it blue screened, so it boots 7000 no problem at all but not into windows
Currently I'm running 6600 just because that's the last place I left it
Apex Z690 BIOS 1101, 12900k SP85, Adata 2x16 XPG Lancer RGB









I have some Dell sticks coming so I will wait for them to water cool because I don't really want to skin these
Does anyone have a good BIOS for the Apex?
Cheers


----------



## Sayenah

Balaned said:


> My computer isn't slow, however the current motherboard and memory will be used in another system with a 12600KF for my grandson who spends quite a bit of time here. It's not going to waste and this was the build plan all along. Since I'll be putting another mobo/ram into my main gaming computer to me it's a good time to make the swap to DDR5. I actually have no issue buying more DDR4 components but would also enjoy giving DDR5 a go for something new. All I'm asking is if there's a set of solid DDR5 which will guarantee me Hynix.


I like that your rather straight forward question didn’t get an answer. Instead you got a bunch of idiotic qualifiers, like you have to justify your overclocking-worthiness in front of some nerd with a min-maxing fetish. I love how he brazenly asks you if you should spend your money on something else 🤣

following sticks will, for sure, guarantee you quality Hynix which you won’t have to manually overclock, and can pretty much run XMP (or, out of the box overclock):


T-Force Delta 6400MHz C40 2x16 kit (unnecessarily rare)
G.Skill 6400MHz C32 2x16 kit (new one, and pretty much the fastest and tightest; plenty available from Newegg)
Corsair 6200MHz C36 (pops in on Corsair’s website twice or thrice a week, stays for a few hours to a day)

the more obscure ones, like the kingstons they talk about require some hit and trial and wild goose chase BS.


----------



## knock

Fury 6000 is Hynix. Mine seem to top out a little over 6500 30-38-38-28-66 2T in an evening of messing around. Tachyon doesn't do 1T at all right now until maybe the next BIOS so not sure what that would look like.

Might be selling these at a loss/discount as all I have to go on is a single i3 IMC until my Pentium shows up. Benching 2 and 4 core for fun and points. Not buying any bigger CPUs until I find a kit that blows my hair back probably.


----------



## Balaned

Sayenah said:


> I like that your rather straight forward question didn’t get an answer. Instead you got a bunch of idiotic qualifiers, like you have to justify your overclocking-worthiness in front of some nerd with a min-maxing fetish. I love how he brazenly asks you if you should spend your money on something else 🤣
> 
> following sticks will, for sure, guarantee you quality Hynix which you won’t have to manually overclock, and can pretty much run XMP (or, out of the box overclock):
> 
> 
> T-Force Delta 6400MHz C40 2x16 kit (unnecessarily rare)
> G.Skill 6400MHz C32 2x16 kit (new one, and pretty much the fastest and tightest; plenty available from Newegg)
> Corsair 6200MHz C36 (pops in on Corsair’s website twice or thrice a week, stays for a few hours to a day)
> 
> the more obscure ones, like the kingstons they talk about require some hit and trial and wild goose chase BS.


Thank you. This is exactly the information I'm looking for. I'll keep an eye out for those specific kits.


----------



## Sayenah

Balaned said:


> Thank you. This is exactly the information I'm looking for. I'll keep an eye out for those specific kits.


also, if you aren’t thinking about some serious overclocking, the ROG Apex board will be just fine. I have both the Unify-X and the Apex sitting around and, at first, I was all for UnifyX but Asus has some excellent features which make life (and tinkering) a lot easier… like it’s excellent AI OC.

well, come to think of it, if you scroll up and see a post by Sugi0lover, heis using an Apex board and the G-Skill RAM i mentioned above. He pulled some excellent timings (granted his stocks are under water)

if Overclocking isn’t the main use case, then consider the Apex again. It gives you a lot… like Thunderbolt4 headers


----------



## Balaned

Sayenah said:


> also, if you aren’t thinking about some serious overclocking, the ROG Apex board will be just fine...


OK, good to know. Is that the only Asus Z690 board you'd recommend over the Unify-X?

EDIT: I was leaning towards the Unify-X primarily due to Buildzoid's glowing video.


----------



## Sayenah

Balaned said:


> OK, good to know. Is that the only Asus Z690 board you'd recommend over the Unify-X?
> 
> EDIT: I was leaning towards the Unify-X primarily due to Buildzoid's glowing video.


 Buildzoid is 100% correct and he favors overclocking potential a lot. UnifyX whoops the Z690 when it comes overclocking confidence. However I only recommend the Apex if overclocking isn’t your main objective.

out of all the 1 DPC boards (rest of Asus line is useless with 4 DIMMS), Apex and UnifyX are the only Z690 boards I would consider right now. Choice between the two is a matter of feature set priority.


----------



## roooo

affxct said:


> That definitely is a good sign. Uhm that's something I don't quite understand myself. My friend has had them and a bunch of others as well. Some are theorising it's got something to do with C-states. I'm not sure if my friend has had any since the last time we tried some adjustments.


Thanks for your valuable input on the whole issue last night, it's been much appreciated. I've got the GSkill 6400C32 incoming, so I'll set the TG6400 aside for now and rather figure out if I'll go back to 0811 or try to get my CPU/Cache stable again with 1101.


----------



## roooo

Csavez™ said:


> _"A few asked for the cmo files, I uploaded them to wetransfer. (cl28-36)"_


Thanks for providing the profiles. I tried them, but was running into various issues which may be related to switching to the 1101 BIOS. Gotta sort that issue first... ;-)


----------



## knock

If I can get 200MHz+ and 1T when available I'll be happy with these timings.


----------



## ivans89

Samsung dimms with CPU OC


----------



## Csavez™

roooo said:


> Thanks for providing the profiles. I tried them, but was running into various issues which may be related to switching to the 1101 BIOS. Gotta sort that issue first... ;-)


At 1101, the mc / sa voltage got confused, but I found a good combo.


----------



## colkoni

Hello!

Need some advice, i have been tuning Kingston Fury 6000mhz cl40 hynix kit. Is there any obvious timings or voltages that i should change ? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Csavez™

Aida fell behind.








I modified so much that + tvb.









x53+2


----------



## pR1maL

Nizzen said:


> If it's stable in Battlefield 2042 for 2 hours, you have a very stable OC on the memory
> 
> I can run ramtest for hours, but crash in BF 2042  Stress the whole pc, tend to be a better test than just memory test.


The installer for Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 is a great stability test too. It seems to perform error cross checking for each package it downloads, and it will stall if you look at it wrong.


----------



## Weeman1986

mikasalo500 said:


> Hi guys
> i have the z690 extreme and just some memory here. Samsung 6000c36, fury 6000c40 and now the Teamgroup 6400c40. No matter what I do I can't get over 5600 mhz. I tried everything but no chance. Therefore, I have now achieved good timings with 5600. Do you have any tips what else I could try? Or is my extreme just bad?
> 
> View attachment 2545444
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545445


Same here, only 5600 without errors on the Extreme!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I think


Weeman1986 said:


> Same here, only 5600 without errors on the Extreme!


@mikasalo500 and @Weeman1986

I had a lot of error trying to tune my Hynix 6000 CL40 with my extreme MB...
@owikh84 help me with some voltages...
All my problems were gone when I set SA to 0.90v... No more errors...

My voltages are:
VDD/DQ/TX - 1.435v
SA - 0.9v
MC - 1.30v


----------



## Fantik

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's impossible to me to set a winter overclock.... LOLOLO
> 
> View attachment 2545149
> 
> 
> 
> Today was 35C outside... I
> In my office, with AC on, it's 28C at 20h20...
> Water temp is 34C...
> 
> View attachment 2545150
> 
> 
> When gaming, the room temp goes over 30C.. LOLOL


Brazilian Winter 🤣🤣🤣

Só no Brasil 🤣🤣🤣 Aqui em Portugal agora é inverno, mas no verão vai doer. Nasci em SP (centro) um pouco diferente Abraço 🇧🇷


----------



## Fantik

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have this... But the best it can do here in the summer is 25C at night... LOL
> 
> View attachment 2545158


You have to buy a real AC 😉


----------



## colkoni

colkoni said:


> Hello!
> 
> Need some advice, i have been tuning Kingston Fury 6000mhz cl40 hynix kit. Is there any obvious timings or voltages that i should change ?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545729


I tried tRCD, tRP 40 and 38, but get errors in first minutes. Sa is 1.25 (auto). 1.55 and 1.57 volts did not help.


----------



## Csavez™

colkoni said:


> I tried tRCD, tRP 40 and 38, but get errors in first minutes. Sa is 1.25 (auto). 1.55 and 1.57 volts did not help.


What is the voltage of the memory controller?


----------



## colkoni

Csavez™ said:


> What is the voltage of the memory controller?


1.3v

Now i am trying the SA @0.9 and it is now 38min in to testmem5 with no errors!!!


----------



## Csavez™

colkoni said:


> 1.3v
> 
> Now i am trying the SA @0.9 and it is now 38min in to testmem5 with no errors!!!


With SA 0.9, my windows immediately freeze.


----------



## SuperMumrik

colkoni said:


> 1.3v
> 
> Now i am trying the SA @0.9 and it is now 38min in to testmem5 with no errors!!!


I can pass memtests with sub 1V SA, but I will just CTD in warzone/vangard/bf
I need at least 1.15+ to be stable, but I run auto(1.232) for convince =)


----------



## Falkentyne

Csavez™ said:


> At 1101, the mc / sa voltage got confused, but I found a good combo.
> View attachment 2545727
> 
> View attachment 2545726



Ring PLL voltage 1.26v?

Does that actually do anything that high?


----------



## Csavez™

Falkentyne said:


> Ring PLL voltage 1.26v?
> 
> Does that actually do anything that high?


Good question, with the "auto" setting in the tm5 extreme test, error within 1 hour.
1.26 voltage I set it at random, but so there is no error.
I'll look at a smaller value one day.


----------



## opt33

SuperMumrik said:


> I can pass memtests with sub 1V SA, but I will just CTD in warzone/vangard/bf
> I need at least 1.15+ to be stable, but I run auto(1.232) for convince =)


yeah, similar issues with all my voltages, ddr5 seemingly outgrew current memory stability tests, need them to get close but had to fine tune. 

6200c32T1 1.37 vdd/vddq/1.24 mc/1.1sa zero issues for 3 weeks and 30+ hours gaming. 1.34 and 1.35vdd/vddq has passed tm5 (any variant) and 8hrs of hci memtest, but 1.35v first bsod gaming in years. 1.36 will pass tests and gamed some, use 1.37v for buffer.

cpu vdd2 (imc) 1.20 fails both TM5/memtest within 5 mins, 1.22v pass hci and tm5 hours but fails games, 1.23v gamed few hours no issue, settled on 1.24v for buffer.

For sa on my mobo/cpu/ram combo like yours can pass memtests from 0.9 to 1.2, but crashed game one time I tried 0.9. 1.10v was original overnight profile 6200 weeks ago so kept it. Been using 1.0 sa (random) for recent testing, but no idea if stable for gaming.

After getting 6400C32 CR1 tm5 1.2hrs and hci memtest stable overnight with 1.43vdd/vddq , mc1.26/1.0 sa crashed gaming within 30 minutes (after 6200 setting 30+hrs zero issues). Said screw it and back to 6200 til I get in mood to test all 3 voltages gaming.


----------



## sblantipodi

is there someone who knows it TM5 has some problem with the Anta config?
As soon as I select the anta config it closes and then restarts with the default setting.

all other configs works...


----------



## roooo

sblantipodi said:


> is there someone who knows it TM5 has some problem with the Anta config?
> As soon as I select the anta config it closes and then restarts with the default setting.
> 
> all other configs works...


Did you run it as admin as suggested?


----------



## sblantipodi

roooo said:


> Did you run it as admin as suggested?


sure.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

sblantipodi said:


> is there someone who knows it TM5 has some problem with the Anta config?
> As soon as I select the anta config it closes and then restarts with the default setting.
> 
> all other configs works...


I had this issue with anta777 several times...
Just restart the PC and it works.


----------



## sblantipodi

RobertoSampaio said:


> I had this issue with anta777 several times...
> Just restart the PC and it works.


I think that it should have problems with 64GB... anta777 extreme never works well even if I reboot.


----------



## dragn09

can the tachyon unlock the dell pmic too like the apex?


----------



## Csavez™

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think
> 
> 
> @mikasalo500 and @Weeman1986
> 
> I had a lot of error trying to tune my Hynix 6000 CL40 with my extreme MB...
> @owikh84 help me with some voltages...
> All my problems were gone when I set SA to 0.90v... No more errors...
> 
> My voltages are:
> VDD/DQ/TX - 1.435v
> SA - 0.9v
> MC - 1.30v
> 
> View attachment 2545769
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545776
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545807


Most often the problem with low SA is that it is only stable during the ram test. A larger cpu consuming test such as cb r23 30 minute stability or aida stress test crashes.


----------



## colkoni

Question, what voltage are you dayling ? I am now testing hci memtest for 6400 32-40-42-52. @1.45v (40% done so far, no errors).


----------



## Gadfly

HellionGR said:


> The revenge of the Samsung IC's on APEX GSKILL 600032U
> 1.435 VDD/VDDQ
> 1.25 IMC Voltage
> 1.25VCSSA
> 6600 C35/2T Triimed
> Z690 APEX
> BIOS 0702


Were you able to get it stable?


----------



## Gadfly

affxct said:


> Holy crap 6600C36 at 1.435.


With errors when stability testing... Look at his second picture in that post. TM5 errored out on cycle 2


----------



## jollib

sugi0lover said:


> Except those basic 4800 cl40 sticks, high xmp rams like 6000+ can be pushed higher than 1.435v.


Oh so regardless of motherboard? I thought only certain motherboards and increase passed 1.435.


----------



## opt33

Csavez™ said:


> Most often the problem with low SA is that it is only stable during the ram test. A larger cpu consuming test such as cb r23 30 minute stability or aida stress test crashes.


Ill have to try CB, didnt think about that one and more like gaming including varying load as each cycle finishes ....in past used prime 95 for imc/sa but 45 mins prime didnt seem to help vs gaming.


----------



## bigfootnz

delete


----------



## bigfootnz

colkoni said:


> Hello!
> 
> Need some advice, i have been tuning Kingston Fury 6000mhz cl40 hynix kit. Is there any obvious timings or voltages that i should change ?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> View attachment 2545729


I've same board and memory, check these my settings for 6400C30



bigfootnz said:


> Hero and bios 0070 stable 6400C30, VDD/VDDQ/VDDTX/SA/MC 1.5/1.45/1.5/1.05/1.35, CPU is not OC, not bad for 4 dimm board. If I disable E cores maybe I can bring latency below 50ns
> 
> View attachment 2544655
> View attachment 2544656
> View attachment 2544657
> View attachment 2544659
> 
> 
> Now I'm testing if I can get maybe 6600C32 stable. I'm even able to boot in Windows 6600C30 but I think that is too much for Hero.
> 
> But what bugs me is that I cannot boot with 1T not even on 6000 with lose timings. I know it is just Hero, but it would be nice just to get in Windows on 1T. Maybe with new BIOS


----------



## sugi0lover

jollib said:


> Oh so regardless of motherboard? I thought only certain motherboards and increase passed 1.435.


I am not sure all motherboards, but you asked unifyx and my answer is for that since my friend is using unifyx with higher than 1.435v.


----------



## centvalny

jollib said:


> Oh so regardless of motherboard? I thought only certain motherboards and increase passed 1.435.


Not sure about other brand mobos but for Apex Z690, only locked (jedec non oc) Renassas pmic can be unlocked. Other pmic like Richtek can not.


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> Since I am out of town for a while to celebrate lunar new year, here is the quick update on new Gskill 6400 CL32 kit.
> It's like my binned Hynix 4800 CL40 sticks (maybe just a little better)
> The below is stable and it is also possible with my Hynix 4800 cl40 sticks.
> I am going to try 6933+ when I am back, so no stable capture shot for the below (will update when I am back)
> 
> - 6850-28-39-39-28-320-2t (from 6800 bclk oc a liitle bit for fun)
> -Voltages
> Vdd 1.60 / vddq 1.55 / tx 1.60 / sa 0.95 / mc 1.30
> - Ram sticks already on water cooling
> View attachment 2545619


Maybe worth mension if this sticks was sent to you by g.skill or some other dealer pre-binned, or is this what people should expect to see ?


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> Maybe worth mension if this sticks was sent to you by g.skill or some other dealer pre-binned, or is this what people should expect to see ?


I bought it from online pc shop like other people.
My friend bought it too and he is working on 7000 32 40 40 with Unify-X and from the look of it, I think it will be stable.


----------



## Tech Geek Mike

Can anyone help? I'm using the new GSKILL C32 6400 w/ XMP II - I've got it stable for memtest86+ and memtest64 but it fails AIDA within 15 seconds. What parameter(s) should I be adjusting to fix this?


----------



## centvalny

7200c32-40-40 with tight secs and terts on Dell hynix green


----------



## opt33

even my samsung 6000u kit is stable for benching and tooling around for hours at 7000c32. If on water would try tm5 out of curiosity.


----------



## Syhndel

I dont think any of these results you guys show here with z690 and any g skill 6000+ (overclocked) are "game stable". Sure it can run aida64 and show some nice numbers and lots latency. Or some mem test for abit.

Then it will for sure crash when you start to game.


----------



## mattxx88

Syhndel said:


> I dont think any of these results you guys show here with z690 and any g skill 6000+ (overclocked) are "game stable". Sure it can run aida64 and show some nice numbers and lots latency. Or some mem test for abit.
> 
> Then it will for sure crash when you start to game.


you should try first and then post

this is my daily since 1 month with a locked PMIC Hynix stick, RS on almost all ram tests and games (BF2042, Warzone, AoE4, Cbug)



edit: and btw, the other gskill kit i own 6000c40 can keep the same, just 3 step more votl


----------



## asdkj1740

Syhndel said:


> I dont think any of these results you guys show here with z690 and any g skill 6000+ (overclocked) are "game stable". Sure it can run aida64 and show some nice numbers and lots latency. Or some mem test for abit.
> 
> Then it will for sure crash when you start to game.


gskill is great. why so mean?


----------



## colkoni

bigfootnz said:


> I've same board and memory, check these my settings for 6400C30


What is VDDTX? Where is it and whats default voltage for it?


----------



## Mad1137

Guys , g skill 6400 c3239 it's hynix ?


----------



## jeiselramos

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , g skill 6400 c3239 it's hynix ?


Yes

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Silent Scone

Syhndel said:


> I dont think any of these results you guys show here with z690 and any g skill 6000+ (overclocked) are "game stable". Sure it can run aida64 and show some nice numbers and lots latency. Or some mem test for abit.
> 
> Then it will for sure crash when you start to game.


I don't think GSKILL is in the habit of releasing kits to the public where there's minimal chance of the user obtaining stability. DRAM vendors go through a binning process in order to ensure there's a level of guardband in place. This is reserved for some "halo" kits. For this platform right now this would be 6800 and up. It's not lucrative enough to release kits to the public that only a portion of CPUs and one or two motherboards can achieve.

Of course, it's easier for the user to assume just because a kit doesn't play nicely with their CPU that the issue lies somewhere else...


----------



## Arni90

Silent Scone said:


> I don't think GSKILL is in the habit of releasing kits to the public where there's minimal chance of the user obtaining stability. DRAM vendors go through a binning process in order to ensure there's a level of guardband in place.


What is the DDR4-5333 22-32-32 bin? It literally only works with the Z590 Apex and 11th gen


----------



## Silent Scone

Arni90 said:


> What is the DDR4-5333 22-32-32 bin? It literally only works with the Z590 Apex and 11th gen


A halo kit. Produced in small quantity in order to obtain attention as to what's achievable by handbinning


----------



## Tigra456

I was able to stabilize 6000 c36 @5600 C36 on my Strix F with Bios 1003…

1.25 VDD/VVDQ
SA 1.25
TRX 1.25
MC Auto

But now I don’t know what I can do to get them to 6000 c36…

VDD/VDDQ/TRX 1.30 and 1.35 doesn’t work…
Maybe it’s something with the other voltages ??


----------



## centvalny

Testing sammies


----------



## Nizzen

Syhndel said:


> I dont think any of these results you guys show here with z690 and any g skill 6000+ (overclocked) are "game stable". Sure it can run aida64 and show some nice numbers and lots latency. Or some mem test for abit.
> 
> Then it will for sure crash when you start to game.


What you think isn't important. If it's stable enough for the user, it's good enough for him/her.
There is no 100% stable, only degree of stable in given enviorment. It all depends on the enviorment, like temperature, cpu, combination of hardware, and the list goes on 

I have the same "problem" like many. Stable in memorytests, but unstable in some games. Playing BF V, BF 2042 is stressing the whole chain, so it tend to find errors better.

Ddr5 is a strange animal 🤣


----------



## schuldig

Is all that Kingston Fury 6000 low-bin and bad OC bashing reasonable or just another case of vocal minority?


----------



## roachsa06

Hi Team

New to forum:
I have APEX 690 with 12900K
Looking to buy ram now and was wondering what is the best kit for stock setting to begin my venture.
Also will update to new latest BIOS 1101. I hope they have more support than CL40 stuff.

Looking at the following:
I see some comment with GSkill working on 6000C36 but no part number.
I dont see much on Corsair stuff.

*F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK

CMT32GX5M2X5600C36
CMT32GX5M2X6200C36

Thanks for any help on this issue team!!

Scott*


----------



## Silent Scone

Nizzen said:


> What you think isn't important. If it's stable enough for the user, it's good enough for him/her.
> There is no 100% stable, only degree of stable in given enviorment. It all depends on the enviorment, like temperature, cpu, combination of hardware, and the list goes on
> 
> I have the same "problem" like many. Stable in memorytests, but unstable in some games. Playing BF V, BF 2042 is stressing the whole chain, so it tend to find errors better.
> 
> Ddr5 is a strange animal 🤣


I've not really found any disparity between Karhu stable settings and gaming including BF. If the memory overclock is conditional enough and impedance is not well matched, some of the trouble is when the heat from the GPU is dumped into the chassis.


----------



## lowmotion

Feedback: bios 1003
ASUS ROG Strix Z690-I Gaming WIFI + KF560C40BBK2-32 

I can run this hynix memory kit for hours (Karthu, TM5), Gaming, ... and after each reboot (cold, warm) i get a 50% chance of instability. The error is about 1-10mins in Karthu or much later over 1h. The kit runs at 6000 XMP and up to 6600mhz. 
The first kit with samsung chips with bios 1108 hat the same issu at stock speed (6000).

So there was no big chance in memory support/training with bios 1003?


----------



## opt33

Syhndel said:


> I dont think any of these results you guys show here with z690 and any g skill 6000+ (overclocked) are "game stable". Sure it can run aida64 and show some nice numbers and lots latency. Or some mem test for abit.
> 
> Then it will for sure crash when you start to game.


Sounds like you are trying to generalize from a few bad samples. With long enough memory test, even if not game stable should be easy to get game stable via slight bump usually in s/a or mc volts.

Both my samsung kits have gamed for over 1 week using 6200C321T, one kit over 30 hours and few weeks no issues.

Also given samsung sells 6000c36 kits, it would be ridiculous to think some could not do 6400c36 since you didnt even mention c32 vs c36. Just most (including myself) want to run c32 or lower. Im sure I can get 6400c32T1 stable after increasing s/a allowed gaming...running c36 ie, 6400c36 and 6600c36 easy but prefer c32.


----------



## Tigra456

Asus Z690 Strix F - Bios 1003 - Gskill 6000 c36
First time stable XMP 1…

some tips for me which voltages can be lowered ?


----------



## 7empe

Hey, anyone here has some success in making Samsung's G Skill F5-6000U3636E16G stable at 6400 CR1?
I can easily run this kit at 6200 CL30 1T, 6400 CL32 2T and 6600 CL34 2T. However *6400 CL32-36 at 1T* is not stable no matter what I try.
@apex 1101


----------



## Silent Scone

7empe said:


> Hey, anyone here has some success in making Samsung's G Skill F5-6000U3636E16G stable at 6400 CR1?
> I can easily run this kit at 6200 CL30 1T, 6400 CL32 2T and 6600 CL34 2T. However *6400 CL32-36 at 1T* is not stable no matter what I try.
> @apex 1101


I ran 6400 CAS-34 daily on that kit for a little while. 32-36 may be asking a little much of some kits.


----------



## Nizzen

Silent Scone said:


> I ran 6400 CAS-34 daily on that kit for a little while. 32-36 may be asking a little much of some kits.
> 
> View attachment 2545984


The key here is low "trefi" and high "Trfc". More easy to get stable, but the loss in performance is a bit high.


----------



## opt33

7empe said:


> Hey, anyone here has some success in making Samsung's G Skill F5-6000U3636E16G stable at 6400 CR1?
> I can easily run this kit at 6200 CL30 1T, 6400 CL32 2T and 6600 CL34 2T. However *6400 CL32-36 at 1T* is not stable no matter what I try.
> @apex 1101


my 6000u will not do 6400 1T cl32-36 TM5 stable at least not at volts I can run on air, just to train/bench need high s/a/imc and 1.5+vdd. 64001T cl32-39 with 1.43vdd is limit on mine for running TM5 stable on air which posted earlier.


----------



## Silent Scone

Nizzen said:


> The key here is low "trefi" and high "Trfc". More easy to get stable, but the loss in performance is a bit high.


That's applicable to any frequency, the key is that they are in fact stable. tREFI is board-controlled in this instance which makes perfect sense if you're responding to someone who's already struggling to obtain 6400 1T.

Well, it makes more sense than showing results where the cell refresh is so infrequent that it's likely to become unstable lol


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> The key here is low "trefi" and high "Trfc". More easy to get stable, but the loss in performance is a bit high.


Ugh, that's a shame. Not sure if going from this is worth it... What do you think?


----------



## 7empe

Silent Scone said:


> I ran 6400 CAS-34 daily on that kit for a little while. 32-36 may be asking a little much of some kits.
> 
> View attachment 2545984


Thanks a lot. Your tWR is astronomically high. Is it on Auto, or you set it on purpose?


----------



## 7empe

opt33 said:


> my 6000u will not do 6400 1T cl32-36 TM5 stable at least not at volts I can run on air, just to train/bench need high s/a/imc and 1.5+vdd. 64001T cl32-39 with 1.43vdd is limit on mine for running TM5 stable on air which posted earlier.


I have them on water. Board can train them easily at 1.48V VDD, IMC at 1.325V and SA at 0.95V. During TM5 I got some sporadic and very random errors, which are hard to correlate with anything. However I was trying to run them at the low tRFC and still high tREFI, similarlly to 6200C30T1. So most probably, these errors were caused by those two timings. But going so low with tREFI most probably will give me the same bandwidth as for 6200 with worse latency :/ Instead it's more beneficial for me to run 6600 CL34 and 2T, I guess.


----------



## Silent Scone

7empe said:


> Thanks a lot. Your tWR is astronomically high. Is it on Auto, or you set it on purpose?


Board controlled on this screenshot


----------



## Syhndel

I dont believe any of you who says "oh yes its (g skill 6000mhz samsung) game stable at 6200, 6400, 6600" they hardly work on xmp for people on z690 boards.

These g skill (samsung) ddr5's are trash and no one in thier right mind should buy them. Its enough to read this thread to understand how bad they are.

Its better to buy ddr5 with Sk Hynix on them.


----------



## colkoni

Hello again, these are KF560C40BBK2-32.

Could use some tips for the tertiary timings?
first screen shot is with ring 40x and second is same but ring 45x.
i have the hci memtest still running 200% no errors.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Syhndel said:


> I dont believe any of you who says "oh yes its (g skill 6000mhz samsung) game stable at 6200, 6400, 6600" they hardly work on xmp for people on z690 boards.
> 
> These g skill (samsung) ddr5's are trash and no one in thier right mind should buy them. Its enough to read this thread to understand how bad they are.
> 
> Its better to buy ddr5 with Sk Hynix on them.


I occasionally scroll through the DDR5 thread looking for in-game benchmark screenshots but most people don’t game.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I think I'm getting the way of DDR5... LOLOL

VDD/DQ/TX - 1.450v
MC - 1.350v
SA - 0.950v




























Any suggestion for hit 6400?


----------



## 7empe

geriatricpollywog said:


> I occasionally scroll through the DDR5 thread looking for in-game benchmark screenshots but most people don’t game.


I do. And I have Samung's 6200C30 CR1, 6400C32 CR2, 6600C34 CR2 stable at least with Apex Legends, Battlefield V and 2042, Halo Infinite. From these configs, 6200C30 scores the best, including SOTTR 1080p benchmark, Fire Strike and CPU profile benchmark from 3DMark.


----------



## colkoni

geriatricpollywog said:


> I occasionally scroll through the DDR5 thread looking for in-game benchmark screenshots but most people don’t game.


I could try some in game benchmarks, could you suggest games that have in-game benchmark?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I bought this...
I hope it will help running it with the fan cooler...


----------



## 7empe

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think I'm getting the way of DDR5... LOLOL
> 
> VDD/DQ/TX - 1.450v
> MC - 1.350v
> SA - 0.950v
> 
> View attachment 2546005
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546006
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546007
> 
> 
> Any suggestion for hit 6400?


Try CR1 for 6200:









And for 6400 go with CR2, CL 34 or 36 and tRP 38 or 39.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

7empe said:


> Try CR1 for 6200:
> View attachment 2546013
> 
> 
> And for 6400 go with CR2, CL 34 or 36 and tRP 38 or 39.


CR1 is not so easy for my extreme and my ES CPU....
But I'll try 6400...


----------



## Carillo

geriatricpollywog said:


> I occasionally scroll through the DDR5 thread looking for in-game benchmark screenshots but most people don’t game.


people with ddr5 don’t have time for gaming. To busy retraining and fiddling in bios.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

7empe said:


> I do. And I have Samung's 6200C30 CR1, 6400C32 CR2, 6600C34 CR2 stable at least with Apex Legends, Battlefield V and 2042, Halo Infinite. From these configs, 6200C30 scores the best, including SOTTR 1080p benchmark, Fire Strike and CPU profile benchmark from 3DMark.


Do you mind sharing SOTR and 3DMark results?


colkoni said:


> I could try some in game benchmarks, could you suggest games that have in-game benchmark?


If you have SOTR and 3DMark Firestrike and Tine Spy (graphics tests) I would like to compare to my latest DDR4 results.


----------



## Nizzen

Syhndel said:


> I dont believe any of you who says "oh yes its (g skill 6000mhz samsung) game stable at 6200, 6400, 6600" they hardly work on xmp for people on z690 boards.
> 
> These g skill (samsung) ddr5's are trash and no one in thier right mind should buy them. Its enough to read this thread to understand how bad they are.
> 
> Its better to buy ddr5 with Sk Hynix on them.


90% is lack of knowledge, and 9% is supidity. 1% is due to new tech. Nothing is trash 

I don't believe you have tried DDR5


----------



## schuldig

colkoni said:


> Hello again, these are KF560C40BBK2-32.
> 
> Could use some tips for the tertiary timings?
> first screen shot is with ring 40x and second is same but ring 45x.
> i have the hci memtest still running 200% no errors.


those latencies looks a lot better than your previous! congrats




Nizzen said:


> 90% is lack of knowledge, and 9% is supidity. 1% is due to new tech. Nothing is trash
> 
> I don't believe you have tried DDR5


#facts. 
especially considering that most boards are still in the process of being finetuned. there's a big disparity between manufacturers which shows that there is still a lot of room for software sided improvement.


----------



## Carillo

Syhndel said:


> I dont believe any of you who says "oh yes its (g skill 6000mhz samsung) game stable at 6200, 6400, 6600" they hardly work on xmp for people on z690 boards.
> 
> These g skill (samsung) ddr5's are trash and no one in thier right mind should buy them. Its enough to read this thread to understand how bad they are.
> 
> Its better to buy ddr5 with Sk Hynix on them.


won’t say trash , but I takes a little bit more patience and tweaking than Hynix. But they work just fine with 6400 if you keep the temperature below 60.


----------



## colkoni

geriatricpollywog said:


> Do you mind sharing SOTR and 3DMark results?
> 
> If you have SOTR and 3DMark Firestrike and Tine Spy (graphics tests) I would like to compare to my latest DDR4 results.












Just got this score, 1 gpu, hall of fame 97

Edit: I scored 23 134 in Time Spy


----------



## bscool

Arni90 said:


> What is the DDR4-5333 22-32-32 bin? It literally only works with the Z590 Apex and 11th gen


It works with MSI Unify X and 11900k also. I have that kit and both z590 Apex and Unify x.


----------



## bscool

colkoni said:


> I could try some in game benchmarks, could you suggest games that have in-game benchmark?


Simple way to measure frames with this portable app GitHub - CXWorld/CapFrameX: Frametime capture and analysis tool

The drawback is that without a standard benchmark that all run the same it is hard to compare but for a single user it is nice to be able to see changes for yourself if they help or not.


----------



## therealjustin

I ended up sending my Vengeance (Samsung) 5600 kit back to Corsair since they keep dropping the price and I paid $420 with tax. I found this Kingston Fury kit on Amazon and for the money it seems like a better buy, I guess.


----------



## affxct

Syhndel said:


> I dont believe any of you who says "oh yes its (g skill 6000mhz samsung) game stable at 6200, 6400, 6600" they hardly work on xmp for people on z690 boards.
> 
> These g skill (samsung) ddr5's are trash and no one in thier right mind should buy them. Its enough to read this thread to understand how bad they are.
> 
> Its better to buy ddr5 with Sk Hynix on them.


I'll give you that it's a mixed bag. As I've explained previously, my first kit of 5600C36 Z5's had a severe issue with training that I've theorized has something to do with mounting pressure. After being credited for the kit, I managed to pick up and stabilize a 6000C36 kit. XMP stabilized fast and I was able to do a lot more with it. Getting the core/cache stable, getting the IMC stable, and getting the RAM stable can be a nightmare, but if you know what you're doing it's manageable. XMP for me is easy, but it does take tweaking the uncore rail, as well as the VDD2 rail to some degree. I currently have 6400 36-36-36 stable and my system has showed no signs of instability. I finished Mafia DE, and played hours of Vanguard. D5 isn't ready for prime time and I agree that Intel should've held off. It's sort of just one of those things. I have turned many non-tuners away from ADL and D5 after discovering all the quirks and nuances. This stuff definitely isn't for your average consumer. These are all the profiles I currently have core/cache stable, IMC stable and DRAM stable. I will grant you that I had a bunch of other profiles that lost IMC/ring stability after some Windows corruption due to my Radeon driver crashing because of an audacious OC attempt on my 69XT. The 6000C36 tweaked XMP I have is stable across the last three BIOS revisions. 6200C34, 6200C32, and 6400C36 were all worked out thereafter. The game crashes are due to cache/IMC stability that needs to be ironed out in something like IBT V2, Linpack or Y-cruncher before one even bothers to HCI/TM5/Karhu it.


----------



## nickolp1974

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think I'm getting the way of DDR5... LOLOL
> 
> VDD/DQ/TX - 1.450v
> MC - 1.350v
> SA - 0.950v
> 
> View attachment 2546005
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546006
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546007
> 
> 
> Any suggestion for hit 6400?


my current daily, stable in everything so far, On Apex, you could try timings but drop to CR2 on Extreme


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> people with ddr5 don’t have time for gaming. To busy retraining and fiddling in bios.


so freaking true.


----------



## sugi0lover

Finally my friend found stable 6800 cl32 setup with his 4 slot Hero board and T Force 6400 cl40 kit.
As you can see from hwinfo64, his ram is air cooled with a fan.
He is working on tightening some timings and I will share his final result.


----------



## 7empe

colkoni said:


> View attachment 2546018
> 
> 
> Just got this score, 1 gpu, hall of fame 97
> 
> Edit: I scored 23 134 in Time Spy


Fire Strike - Hall of Fame #67 and #1 among 12900KF + RTX3090 users.









Result not found







www.3dmark.com


----------



## Qpi

Carillo said:


> people with ddr5 don’t have time for gaming. To busy retraining and fiddling in bios.


You go to bed with a stable profile then on the very next morning you realize it fails just after a few minutes in TM5


----------



## gecko991

Serious power there.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

colkoni said:


> View attachment 2546018
> 
> 
> Just got this score, 1 gpu, hall of fame 97
> 
> Edit: I scored 23 134 in Time Spy





7empe said:


> Fire Strike - Hall of Fame #67 and #1 among 12900KF + RTX3090 users.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result not found
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


It seems DDR4 is still strong in FS combined, lags behind DDR5 in TS synthetic CPU test, and doesn’t bottleneck framerates in GT1 and GT2 in both FS and TS.









I scored 48 579 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com












I scored 23 536 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## 7empe

geriatricpollywog said:


> It seems DDR4 is still strong in FS combined, lags behind DDR5 in TS synthetic CPU test, and doesn’t bottleneck framerates in GT1 and GT2 in both FS and TS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 48 579 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 23 536 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Not sure how we can compare DDR in Fire Strike if you got your RTX3090 to chill to 12C on average with 2300 MHz clocks  Great result! On chilled water?


----------



## affxct

Qpi said:


> You go to bed with a stable profile then on the very next morning you realize it fails just after a few minutes in TM5


Need to enable fast boot before you begin testing. Basically, pick your settings, train them, boot back to BIOS, enable fast boot, save the profile, then begin testing. Get the cache/IMC stable in a math-heavy stress test, and then move onto your RAM stress test. Once you've satisfied all those you should be daily stable. BSODs, re-training other profiles, and a few other freak things can destabilise the memory subsystem.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

7empe said:


> Not sure how we can compare DDR in Fire Strike if you got your RTX3090 to chill to 12C on average with 2300 MHz clocks  Great result! On chilled water?


Yes chilled water. I can share ambient results when I get home later.

But you can’t fool me into thinking 5.7ghz is possible on an SP88 on ambient water.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> Need to enable fast boot before you begin testing. Basically, pick your settings, train them, boot back to BIOS, enable fast boot, save the profile, then begin testing. Get the cache/IMC stable in a math-heavy stress test, and then move onto your RAM stress test. Once you've satisfied all those you should be daily stable. BSODs, re-training other profiles, and a few other freak things can destabilise the memory subsystem.


Or an easy way - when you pass the memtest, don’t turn off your PC. Ever.


----------



## 7empe

geriatricpollywog said:


> Yes chilled water. I can share ambient results when I get home later.
> 
> But you can’t fool me into thinking 5.7ghz is possible on an SP88 on ambient water.


It is possible. On adaptive voltage with OCTVB


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Or an easy way - when you pass the memtest, don’t turn off your PC. Ever.


I mean, you're not wrong. C-states maybe? If you were in South Africa you'd be screwed though. Load shedding and blackouts are inevitable :/.


----------



## colkoni

geriatricpollywog said:


> It seems DDR4 is still strong in FS combined, lags behind DDR5 in TS synthetic CPU test, and doesn’t bottleneck framerates in GT1 and GT2 in both FS and TS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 48 579 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 23 536 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Nice cooling.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> I mean, you're not wrong. C-states maybe? If you were in South Africa you'd be screwed though. Load shedding and blackouts are inevitable :/.


If I were in South Africa, I would enjoy the weather!


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> If I were in South Africa, I would enjoy the weather!


No clue what's been happening here lately, but we went from cold and rainy in the heart of the summer season around Christmas, to highs of 40c in for 50% of the month of January. This has literally been the hottest January of my existence haha.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> No clue what's been happening here lately, but we went from cold and rainy in the heart of the summer season around Christmas, to highs of 40c in for 50% of the month of January. This has literally been the hottest January of my existence haha.


Damn, cooling and OC is a challenge there. Here it’s enough to open the window to get sub-zero air cooling


----------



## ObviousCough

My 5600CL36 kit is back from RMA!


----------



## Carillo

Qpi said:


> You go to bed with a stable profile then on the very next morning you realize it fails just after a few minutes in TM5


yeah , but good news. I found a solution. Ones you’re stable , what ever you , DO NOT turn of your computer!


----------



## Qpi

affxct said:


> Need to enable fast boot before you begin testing. Basically, pick your settings, train them, boot back to BIOS, enable fast boot, save the profile, then begin testing. Get the cache/IMC stable in a math-heavy stress test, and then move onto your RAM stress test. Once you've satisfied all those you should be daily stable. BSODs, re-training other profiles, and a few other freak things can destabilise the memory subsystem.


I’ve been through it all thank you. It’s just 1T that is super finicky after 6400  even though I’m on Apex.


----------



## Nizzen

Imagine the time used just flashing the bioses 😅 Flashed some several times too 
This is from my "tumb drive"
Thank you Asus for the great support <3


----------



## Qpi

Nizzen said:


> Imagine the time used just flashing the bioses 😅 Flashed some several times too
> This is from my "tumb drive"
> Thank you Asus for the great support <3
> 
> View attachment 2546069


It looks like mine. Did you borrow it?


----------



## Clovis559

geriatricpollywog said:


> I occasionally scroll through the DDR5 thread looking for in-game benchmark screenshots but most people don’t game.


I just got some DDR5 G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5k I'm hoping to toy with. What game benchmarks would you be interested in? If I got it I'll post it. I'm not a good memory overclocker  fyi.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Clovis559 said:


> I just got some DDR5 G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5k I'm hoping to toy with. What game benchmarks would you be interested in? If I got it I'll post it. I'm not a good memory overclocker  fyi.


Do you have SoTR? Hynix should easily hit 370+ with good tuning.


----------



## ObviousCough

Nizzen said:


> Imagine the time used just flashing the bioses 😅 Flashed some several times too
> This is from my "tumb drive"
> Thank you Asus for the great support <3
> 
> View attachment 2546069


ditto


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Damn, cooling and OC is a challenge there. Here it’s enough to open the window to get sub-zero air cooling


It was quite cold (5-ish) in September actually.


----------



## knock

How are people's G 6400c32 and C 6200c36 coming along? Hitting 7000 tight?


----------



## HellionGR

Is this an out of date April fools joke second screenshot says posted by tigra4 and is on default xmp 6000 or sthing not mine.And of course dunno how is on the same roll with mine smells fishy.
Anyway its not anda777 stable but i m getting like 5-6 errors per complete 4 cycle pass.


----------



## affxct

Has anyone given Taichi a spin? I’m curious as to how it does. Afaik ASRock had a decent daisy chain design, so I’m wondering what 8 layers of it could do with D5.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

ObviousCough said:


> View attachment 2546081
> 
> 
> ditto


I think I win...

13 Bios... LOLOL

EDITED:
@Nizzen wins... LOL

The best for me so far is "9901-S3Resume".
I think this one will live in BIOS_1 position for a long time....










M14E_BIOS


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Alberto_It

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think I win...
> 
> 13 Bios... LOLOL
> 
> EDITED:
> @Nizzen wins... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M14E_BIOS
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Honestly @RobertoSampaio I'm a bit tired to flash bios every week. My results with my Apex are almost the same. 
The only thing that I would like to learn and apply to my system is lowering the timings of my G. Skill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK. 

But I'm not able to do it


----------



## geriatricpollywog

6400 available on Newegg









G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Carillo

knock said:


> How are people's G 6400c32 and C 6200c36 coming along? Hitting 7000 tight?


I don't think memory IC bin is what's holding most hynix owners back from pushing 7000 c32/34.
There is a large variation in IMC quality, and only a small percentage of all cpu's tested( in my case) can manage this.


----------



## jeiselramos

Carillo said:


> I don't think memory IC bin is what's holding most hynix owners back from pushing 7000 c32/34.
> There is a large variation in IMC quality, and only a small percentage of all cpu's tested( in my case) can manage this.


Safedisk said it was necessary a good IMC to boot 6600+


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Alberto_It said:


> Honestly @RobertoSampaio I'm a bit tired to flash bios every week. My results with my Apex are almost the same.
> The only thing that I would like to learn and apply to my system is lowering the timings of my G. Skill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK.
> 
> But I'm not able to do it


Me too... LOL....

And I'm already resigned to my DDR5 running at 6000 with 65ns of latency...


----------



## Alberto_It

RobertoSampaio said:


> Me too... LOL....
> 
> And I'm already resigned to my DDR5 running at 6000 with 65ns of latency...


That is only 2 ns lower than my 6000c36 g. Skill kit without tuning


----------



## asdkj1740

year of the tiger
year of the tighter!

ht=hci tests


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result with new Gskill 6400 CL32 kit (by my friend)

CPU : 12900K SP103 (P55 E43 C45)
DRAM: G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32
M/B: Z690i Unify
Voltages : SA 1.0v / TX 1.4 / VDD2 1.34v / VDD 1.59 VDDQ 1.5
Ram cooling : Noctu 80mm fan x 2(Max Temp 48C)


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> OC result with new Gskill 6400 CL32 kit (by my friend)
> 
> CPU : 12900K SP103 (P55 E43 C45)
> DRAM: G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32
> M/B: Z690i Unify
> Voltages : SA 1.0v / TX 1.4 / VDD2 1.34v / VDD 1.59 VDDQ 1.5
> Ram cooling : Noctu 80mm fan x 2(Max Temp 48C)
> 
> View attachment 2546205


When i tested the Unify-x, i tried some of your friend's settings you have posted here earlier since i'm not that used to MSI, and with my IMC and setup , i wasn't even close to boot any of his stable settings. I needed waaaay more VDD2 on Msi than MC on Asus. Maby unlucky with my board, but anyways, nice reults.


----------



## sblantipodi

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think I win...
> 
> 13 Bios... LOLOL
> 
> EDITED:
> @Nizzen wins... LOL
> 
> The best for me so far is "9901-S3Resume".
> I think this one will live in BIOS_1 position for a long time....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M14E_BIOS
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Trust me, that bios is the luckiest ones in your test set.
You can test without errors for days and get an error the other day. 
This means that most probably 9901 was the bios in the lucky days.

I don't know if the in Memory ECC check is the coulprit that makes finding errors so difficult.

But there is no more stable bios since 0050.
There is only the bios where you are more lucky in that days of testing.

I think that most people should stop finding the right BIOS and should start concentrating on finding the right settings to be stable for weeks of testing without errors at different temps.


----------



## splmann

Hi everybody , 
here my first shoot with DDR5 .


----------



## sblantipodi

sblantipodi said:


> Trust me, that bios is the luckiest ones in your test set.
> You can test without errors for days and get an error the other day.
> This means that most probably 9901 was the bios in the lucky days.
> 
> I don't know if the in Memory ECC check is the coulprit that makes finding errors so difficult.
> 
> But there is no more stable bios since 0050.
> 
> I think that most people should stop finding the right BIOS and should start concentrating on finding the right settings to be stable for weeks of testing without errors at different temps.


I'm pretty sure that @shamino1978 will agree with this, and I really hope that he will shed some light on this. Too many users complains about BIOS, too few that proved to be stable for days.
As I said, I can be stable for days of testing and fail the day after. Some boot seems to be more unlucky than the others. Is there an explanation to this?

Shamino, please shed the light once and for all and make us stop to be ignorant and complain about BIOS when there is no reason 😁


----------



## blautemple

Are you still combining 2 kits?

Do you think the manufacturer are selling 4 dimm kits at a max speed of 4400MHz for the sake of fun?

Just because something worked out with ddr4 it does not mean that the same thing is working out with ddr5.

So please stop whining...


----------



## Carillo

The g.skill 6400 c32 has arrived


----------



## Carillo

Just a quick test with AUTO settings on AIR

7000 c38, look at that VDD! I can not even post this with my current kit

1.40 VDD and 1.22 MC

Seems really promising. Can't wait to spend some more time with them


----------



## Vlados

does anyone know if there is support for avx512 on bios 1101 for z690 apex?


----------



## Zemach

kingston 6000 C40 1.35 OC 6400Cl 28 37 37 28 1t 1.575v Room 33c


----------



## sblantipodi

blautemple said:


> Are you still combining 2 kits?
> 
> Do you think the manufacturer are selling 4 dimm kits at a max speed of 4400MHz for the sake of fun?
> 
> Just because something worked out with ddr4 it does not mean that the same thing is working out with ddr5.
> 
> So please stop whining...


The story of combining kits is old and most uses does not even know what it means. 
The big problem with DDR5 is using 4 sticks or dual rank sticks.
Combining kits is the smallest problem 

Most problems that users take on bios depends on their settings and not on bios.
This is something that shamino explained many times now and in my small experience I can confirm it.

Not having a changelog is the reason why all these people accuse bios for these problems.
I'm pretty sure that most bios have no impact on memory 😁
Same voltages, same timings, I doubt that bios can make any difference when comparing one beta to another.


----------



## 7empe

Vlados said:


> does anyone know if there is support for avx512 on bios 1101 for z690 apex?


Yes, it is.


----------



## Vlados

7empe said:


> Yes, it is.


Do you see AVX512F in CPU-Z?


----------



## asdkj1740

Vlados said:


> Do you see AVX512F in CPU-Z?


msi latest beta bios (a23) does support microcode selection. i believe asus could have done the same if they wanted to.


----------



## 7empe

Vlados said:


> Do you see AVX512F in CPU-Z?


I’ve disable it in bios, so no. But I did not check previously when it was enabled.


----------



## Nizzen

Vlados said:


> does anyone know if there is support for avx512 on bios 1101 for z690 apex?


What do you use avx512 for? Emulator with avx512 support?


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> What do you use avx512 for? Emulator with avx512 support?


Probably a DOS emulator for Leisure Suit Larry...will not only make your CPU sweat....


----------



## mattxx88

Nizzen said:


> What do you use avx512 for? Emulator with avx512 support?





https://www.pcgamer.com/the-rpcs3-ps3-emulator-gets-a-hefty-boost-on-intel-alder-lake-cpus-with-avx-512-enabledenabled/



 to play pixellous games


----------



## roooo

TBH, I'm actually considering compiling OpenFOAM with AVX512 support - or at least give it a shot. But that's rather not gaming...well, maybe kinda ;-)


----------



## Arni90

Vlados said:


> does anyone know if there is support for avx512 on bios 1101 for z690 apex?


Nope, microcode is too new


----------



## centvalny

Sammies 7200 air bench settings


----------



## Clovis559

geriatricpollywog said:


> Do you have SoTR? Hynix should easily hit 370+ with good tuning.


Yeah I have SoTR, I didn't get a chance last night cause my niece, but today hopefully.


----------



## oc22jirM

Carillo said:


> Just a quick test with AUTO settings on AIR
> 
> 7000 c38, look at that VDD! I can not even post this with my current kit
> 
> 1.40 VDD and 1.22 MC
> 
> Seems really promising. Can't wait to spend some more time with them
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546223


Can't wait to see what you do. Just got this same kit and I am struggling. Last kit was running Samsung premade 6000/c32 had no issues for a few weeks gaming was perfect. New 6400/c32 kit won't boot on xmp1, xmp2 boots but I get freezing while gaming yesterday 2-3 times in a few hours. Ran xmp just to test but don't even know where to begin now lol. (z690 apex)


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Before:











After...









Temps drop 2C during the tests ...


And now with Noctua


----------



## Fantik

RobertoSampaio said:


> I bought this...
> I hope it will help running it with the fan cooler...
> 
> View attachment 2546008
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546009


I have that cooler with 2xNoctua the difference in noise is brutal. The fans that came with the cooler are awful 😖 electrical noise and very noisy.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Fantik said:


> I have that cooler with 2xNoctua the difference in noise is brutal. The fans that came with the cooler are awful 😖 electrical noise and very noisy.
> View attachment 2546318


It's true... The Alseye has good airflow, but extremely noisy...

And now the fans are no longer PWM...
The 1º I bought for my 10900K the fans were PWM... Now they are 3 wires...


----------



## affxct

centvalny said:


> Sammies 7200 air bench settings
> View attachment 2546274


How much VDD/VDDQ does this require?


----------



## david12900k

Hey guys. I just picked up some Gskill 6400 cl32 memory. I have been reading through this thread looking to overclock this memory. I have read a few guides, but none of them really have a step-by-step guide on how to overclock this. Im looking to optimize for gaming and a daily 24/7 OC. Im on the 12900k and z690 apex. My 12900k is fairly heavily overclocked, but I have never OC'd my ram, so looking for a great guide to start with.


----------



## newls1

david12900k said:


> Hey guys. I just picked up some Gskill 6400 cl32 memory. I have been reading through this thread looking to overclock this memory. I have read a few guides, but none of them really have a step-by-step guide on how to overclock this. Im looking to optimize for gaming and a daily 24/7 OC. Im on the 12900k and z690 apex. My 12900k is fairly heavily overclocked, but I have never OC'd my ram, so looking for a great guide to start with.


ill be following this, thats the same ram im eyeing!


----------



## satinghostrider

oc22jirM said:


> Can't wait to see what you do. Just got this same kit and I am struggling. Last kit was running Samsung premade 6000/c32 had no issues for a few weeks gaming was perfect. New 6400/c32 kit won't boot on xmp1, xmp2 boots but I get freezing while gaming yesterday 2-3 times in a few hours. Ran xmp just to test but don't even know where to begin now lol. (z690 apex)


Try 0086 bios if you aren't on that already. Those on this new kit seem to have good results with that bios. You might want to try SA 0.95V-1.05V to see if it stabilises on your XMP2 setting currently.


----------



## bastian

Not sure if posted, but Corsair Dom Plat RGB
*CMT32GX5M2X6200C36*










Hynix!

6200 32-39-39-76-1T 1.3v vdd/q, MC 1.280 (so far)


----------



## gecko991

The new Gskill 6400 looks really sweet.


----------



## gecko991

1T is noice bastian.


----------



## bastian

gecko991 said:


> 1T is noice bastian.


I briefly had it at 6400 1T. Could boot into Windows and no BSOD. However, mem test showing errors. I think with some tweaking it could work.


----------



## oc22jirM

satinghostrider said:


> Try 0086 bios if you aren't on that already. Those on this new kit seem to have good results with that bios. You might want to try SA 0.95V-1.05V to see if it stabilises on your XMP2 setting currently.


Thank you. On the asus site I only see 0806 bios number but not 0086. Is that the one? Ultimately I didn't plan on using xmp but I really didn't have time to tinker because of workload this week. Just had time for some quick games last night so wanted to get it up and going quick. I appreciate the assistance!


----------



## satinghostrider

oc22jirM said:


> Thank you. On the asus site I only see 0806 bios number but not 0086. Is that the one? Ultimately I didn't plan on using xmp but I really didn't have time to tinker because of workload this week. Just had time for some quick games last night so wanted to get it up and going quick. I appreciate the assistance!


Which board are you using?
If Apex, here is 0086.









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


The 1003 and 1101 bios on Apex, are they the same, except for added SLI key on the 1101? I just flashed 1003 on mine.




www.overclock.net


----------



## oc22jirM

satinghostrider said:


> Which board are you using?
> If Apex, here is 0086.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> The 1003 and 1101 bios on Apex, are they the same, except for added SLI key on the 1101? I just flashed 1003 on mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks bro! Just read that same comment on the other thread haha, perfect timing. Going to see if i can't squeeze in some testing right now.


----------



## jollib

Anyone know what pmic is in this kit. Is it unlocked? Kingston fury 6000 on Amazon? *KF560C40BBK2-32 *


----------



## Stockman

bastian said:


> I briefly had it at 6400 1T. Could boot into Windows and no BSOD. However, mem test showing errors. I think with some tweaking it could work.


Same kit here on Unify-X. 1T CL32 was fairly painless up to 6600. That is, posting, booting, running a few games and CB23. (Definitely not a claim of stability) Unfortunately I have no experience with memory OC'ing, so little hope of me tuning it to run 1T stable in memtest.

Surprised there's not more contributors here who own the Unify-X, which so far has a good reputation (and is cheaper than Apex). Totally get why many have the Apex - I'm also a fan of ASUS, but decided early on to give MSI a try this generation.


----------



## TickTockOverclock

I've been eyeing Corsar's 64GB (2x32) kits but they're only XMP up to 5200 at the moment. Has anyone tried pushing them higher or is that pretty much what we can expect from DDR5 at the moment?

I regularly am hitting the 32GB limit on my 6000C36 GSkill kit.


----------



## Nizzen

jollib said:


> Anyone know what pmic is in this kit. Is it unlocked? Kingston fury 6000 on Amazon? *KF560C40BBK2-32 *


Unlocked. I have this kit


----------



## roooo

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's true... The Alseye has good airflow, but extremely noisy...
> 
> And now the fans are no longer PWM...
> The 1º I bought for my 10900K the fans were PWM... Now they are 3 wires...


Get the Noctua NF-A6X25, they also come as a PWM version... ;-)


----------



## centvalny

affxct said:


> How much VDD/VDDQ does this require?


1.65 dd/dq


----------



## Muad_Dib69

I see a lot of people complain to have no pad on PMIC but it can be a good thing. I have experience with GPU repad. The problem is if you add thermal pad on pmic it will bring lot of heat to the heatsink and the memory chips will be hotter. So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things. When you repad memory of Graphic card it raises temperature of GPU.


----------



## satinghostrider

Muad_Dib69 said:


> I see a lot of people complain to have no pad on PMIC but it can be a good thing. I have experience with GPU repad. The problem is if you add thermal pad on pmic it will bring lot of heat to the heatsink and the memory chips will be hotter. So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things. When you repad memory of Graphic card it raises temperature of GPU.


Totally wrong analogy. The purpose of the thermal pads on the PMIC is to transfer heat to the heatsink so that it can be effectively cooled. This reduces the overall temperature of the rams allowing it to clock higher or even be more stable under prolonged use which ddr5 is known to be extremely temp sensitive.

I don't understand what you mean when you say your experience with repadding of the memory of graphics cards raises GPU temps. It means you used the wrong shore scale of thermal pads which has prevented proper GPU die contact to the cooler. If anything, replacing the pads on GPU drops the memory temps drastically. GPU core temps are also improved when you use a better paste when repadding. 

I fail to understand how the lack of thermal pad on the Gskills is a good thing. These things heat up so fast even during memory tests even on stock XMP.


----------



## mattxx88

Muad_Dib69 said:


> I see a lot of people complain to have no pad on PMIC but it can be a good thing. I have experience with GPU repad. The problem is if you add thermal pad on pmic it will bring lot of heat to the heatsink and the memory chips will be hotter. So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things. When you repad memory of Graphic card it raises temperature of GPU.


So is it better to leave the pmic chip to melt from the heat?
Makes sense, how did I not think of this sooner


----------



## asdkj1740

Muad_Dib69 said:


> I see a lot of people complain to have no pad on PMIC but it can be a good thing. I have experience with GPU repad. The problem is if you add thermal pad on pmic it will bring lot of heat to the heatsink and the memory chips will be hotter. So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things. When you repad memory of Graphic card it raises temperature of GPU.


we, who live for one thing: ddr tuning, use air cooling or water cooling.

if we burn, you burn with us.


----------



## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> Totally wrong analogy. The purpose of the thermal pads on the PMIC is to transfer heat to the heatsink so that it can be effectively cooled. This reduces the overall temperature of the rams allowing it to clock higher or even be more stable under prolonged use which ddr5 is known to be extremely temp sensitive.
> 
> I don't understand what you mean when you say your experience with repadding of the memory of graphics cards raises GPU temps. It means you used the wrong shore scale of thermal pads which has prevented proper GPU die contact to the cooler. If anything, replacing the pads on GPU drops the memory temps drastically. GPU core temps are also improved when you use a better paste when repadding.
> 
> I fail to understand how the lack of thermal pad on the Gskills is a good thing. These things heat up so fast even during memory tests even on stock XMP.


it is like the first gen x299 with poor vrm, mobo vendors know those cpu are not able to overclock without delidding.

maybe gskill knows we cannot even make it stable under the xmp profile.


----------



## Nizzen

mattxx88 said:


> So is it better to leave the pmic chip to melt from the heat?
> Makes sense, how did I not think of this sooner


Pmic is build to live under high temperature. 90c is no problem for pmic. I think Shamino said that a few months ago. Memorychips don't like high temp. Maybe it's a reason like muad said 

Watercool everything is still king 😎


----------



## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> it is like the first gen x299 with poor vrm, mobo vendors know those cpu are not able to overclock without delidding.
> 
> maybe gskill knows we cannot even make it stable under the xmp profile.


I do think some of the earlier 6000 kits had issues with XMP. While some of the issues point to BIOS but I think this has been greatly improved as of today. But heat is another issue with the DDR5 especially without thermal pads. The SPD hub temps rise very fast with the Gskill as opposed to kits with thermal pads. The limitation of clocking these rams due to heat is because of the absence of thermal pads. I had a 6000 kit Kingston and the PMIC temps were noticeably cooler cause that came with thermal pads.


----------



## sblantipodi

Nizzen said:


> Pmic is build to live under high temperature. 90c is no problem for pmic. I think Shamino said that a few months ago. Memorychips don't like high temp. Maybe it's a reason like muad said
> 
> Watercool everything is still king 😎


How can we detect the temperature of the memory chip?
Most ddr5 modules shows pmic temp, non Memory modules temp.

Is pmic supposed to run hotter than memory modules if both pmic and memory modules have a thermal pad?


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Does anyone know if ADATA 6000C40 is Hynix?


----------



## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> I do think some of the earlier 6000 kits had issues with XMP. While some of the issues point to BIOS but I think this has been greatly improved as of today. But heat is another issue with the DDR5 especially without thermal pads. The SPD hub temps rise very fast with the Gskill as opposed to kits with thermal pads. The limitation of clocking these rams due to heat is because of the absence of thermal pads. I had a 6000 kit Kingston and the PMIC temps were noticeably cooler cause that came with thermal pads.


when the 6400j kit is out we know gskill does not give a **** about that.


----------



## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> when the 6400j kit is out we know gskill does not give a **** about that.


Yeah that's why I planned and got the non-RGB one instead so I can rip those suckers apart and WC them. 😎


----------



## Muad_Dib69

satinghostrider said:


> Totally wrong analogy. The purpose of the thermal pads on the PMIC is to transfer heat to the heatsink so that it can be effectively cooled. This reduces the overall temperature of the rams allowing it to clock higher or even be more stable under prolonged use which ddr5 is known to be extremely temp sensitive.
> 
> I don't understand what you mean when you say your experience with repadding of the memory of graphics cards raises GPU temps. It means you used the wrong shore scale of thermal pads which has prevented proper GPU die contact to the cooler. If anything, replacing the pads on GPU drops the memory temps drastically. GPU core temps are also improved when you use a better paste when repadding.
> 
> I fail to understand how the lack of thermal pad on the Gskills is a good thing. These things heat up so fast even during memory tests even on stock XMP.


No it's very known than doing a memory repad raise temperature of GPU because It's totally logical you add more heat to the same dissipation capacity, how can it be cooler?


----------



## Muad_Dib69

satinghostrider said:


> Yeah that's why I planned and got the non-RGB one instead so I can rip those suckers apart and WC them. 😎


I have both rgb and no rgb, it's the same design, the non rgb also have the black plastic stuff in the middle instead of a transparent one. So on Gskill I don't see less heatsink available.


----------



## satinghostrider

Muad_Dib69 said:


> No it's very known than doing a memory repad raise temperature of GPU because It's totally logical you add more heat to the same dissipation capacity, how can it be cooler?


Don't know about you but my GPU core temps are 40 degrees max and 58 degrees for memory temps. Yeah my core temps are lower than memory so it makes alot of sense that memory pads are making my core temps higher. 🤔

If your memory temps are increasing your GPU core temps, it means you have a bad mount or a cooler incapable of cooling your card efficiently. The good memory thermal pads are supposed to transfer heat more efficiently to your cooler if that makes any sense not regress it.


----------



## satinghostrider

Muad_Dib69 said:


> I have both rgb and no rgb, it's the same design, the non rgb also have the black plastic stuff in the middle instead of a transparent one. So on Gskill I don't see less heatsink available.


Yes both models don't have thermal pads but it's easier to rip the non-RGB ones plus they run slightly cooler without the RGB.


----------



## Qpi

Does anyone know where can I find the OREF_RI parameter in the Apex BIOS? Is it even worth setting it to 0 on Z690 boards?


----------



## Muad_Dib69

mattxx88 said:


> So is it better to leave the pmic chip to melt from the heat?
> Makes sense, how did I not think of this sooner


"So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things" I think if there is nothing on it it means it's ok for normal use. Personnaly i have erroe when DDR reach temperature.It looks it's not PMIC.But I don't reach high voltage like 1.6. only 1.435v


----------



## Muad_Dib69

sblantipodi said:


> How can we detect the temperature of the memory chip?
> Most ddr5 modules shows pmic temp, non Memory modules temp.
> 
> Is pmic supposed to run hotter than memory modules if both pmic and memory modules have a thermal pad?


That's interesting for you it's the pmic temp and not ddr? in this case it's better to repad off course. But it's 100% sur the DDR chip will be hotter.


----------



## mattxx88

Muad_Dib69 said:


> I see a lot of people complain *to have no pad on PMIC but it can be a good thing*. I have experience with GPU repad. The problem is if you add thermal pad on pmic it will bring lot of heat to the heatsink and the memory chips will be hotter. So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things. When you repad memory of Graphic card it raises temperature of GPU.





Muad_Dib69 said:


> "So we need to know if errors come with high temperature of memory chip or pmic to do the right things" I think if there is nothing on it it means it's ok for normal use. Personnaly i have erroe when DDR reach temperature.It looks it's not PMIC.But I don't reach high voltage like 1.6. only 1.435v


Personally, I don't consider it the most suitable solution anyway.
If you want to test to see which one is giving problems as the temperature increases, that's one thing.
But they both need to be cooled anyway IMHO, also because they are in such a close position that thinking of doing one and not the other makes no sense.
Rather, as Nizzen says, increasing the cooling capacity to keep (both?) temperatures at bay is the best and only solution.


----------



## Muad_Dib69

Yes but if you keep the same heatsink and add more heat on it it will make previously cooled components hotter. Off course the best is to keep everything cooled. My point is if DDR temperature is the limit don't put the pmic on the heatsink. Change it. Maybe GSKILL didn't put it because of that.


----------



## sblantipodi

Muad_Dib69 said:


> That's interesting for you it's the pmic temp and not ddr? in this case it's better to repad off course. But it's 100% sur the DDR chip will be hotter.


My Corsair Dominator DDR5 reports the same temp under load if used at 1.3 or 1.4V.
For this reason I suppose that the temp I see in hwinfo is related to PMIC and not to memory chips.

it would be interesting to know how much difference there is between the PMIC temp and the memory chip temp.


----------



## mattxx88

btw, if someone's interested:








Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com


----------



## LionS7

Samsung (ETMS) on Kingston Fury Beast 5600, CL40


----------



## warbucks

bastian said:


> Not sure if posted, but Corsair Dom Plat RGB
> *CMT32GX5M2X6200C36*
> 
> View attachment 2546348
> 
> 
> Hynix!
> 
> 6200 32-39-39-76-1T 1.3v vdd/q, MC 1.280 (so far)


Nice. I picked this kit up and it's on it's way to me.


----------



## yoyo711

Hi 

Just got delivered to Newegg Does Anyone know what pmic is in this kit. Is it unlocked? Kingston fury 5200 *KF552C40BBK2-32(DDR5 5200)*
It Hynix~ and How far I can push?

Thanks


----------



## Simkin

The Hynix 6200 Profile in the Apex Bios, is that a 6200 C32 profile? I see its 1.43v also, that might seem little high for 6200?

Anyone tried this with the Team Group 6200Mhz ?


----------



## Clovis559

I'm flyin in straight noob style. The PMIC didn't have a pad on my sticks, and it's taller then the memory chips. I'm using a memory block from EK cause I had it. I used thicker pads to clear PMIC, but I cleared it by a lot because those are the pads I had available. I haven't put that much time in yet, but I've picked up a lot from others here in this forum and really appreciate it. 

So some will see I kinda blindly copied your settings:








I wish I could get down closer to 50, any advice would be legit!


----------



## dragn09

yoyo711 said:


> Hi
> 
> Just got delivered to Newegg Does Anyone know what pmic is in this kit. Is it unlocked? Kingston fury 5200 *KF552C40BBK2-32(DDR5 5200)*
> It Hynix~ and How far I can push?
> 
> Thanks


do you have the ram? just set 1.45v for vdd/vddq and see if it posts


----------



## yoyo711

dragn09 said:


> do you have the ram? just set 1.45v for vdd/vddq and see it it posts



Thanks for reply

Yes, I have the ram. 1.45v for 6200Mhz? and my Motherboard is a gigabyte z690 aorus pro...


----------



## dragn09

yoyo711 said:


> Thanks for reply
> 
> Yes, I have the ram. 1.45v for 6200Mhz? and my Motherboard is a gigabyte z690 aorus pro...


frequency doesnt matter, just do xmp or jedec and set manual voltage to something over 1.440. if its a post and you can see the voltage in bios then you have oc pmic


----------



## centvalny

[email protected] air. Not as fast as Hynies yet! With more new release probly it will be as fast as the higher bin Hynies.
tRPRE 2 and dram clk 95


----------



## MC_SULY_514

What a disaster the asus z690 lineup has been, or maybe it's the "1st gen" g.skill ram. 
I know that G.Skill discontinued that ram set after 2months of initial release.

My "bad" Ram: G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK)
The "new" batch: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.35v 36-36-36-96 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK) 

Was getting BSOD/freezes with no overclock at call (ram nor cpu lol). waking up to desktop being frozen.
tried every combo from win10 to win11 to single memory sticks.
Don't even wanna talk about the overclocking ram let alone just pressing the XMP button lel
I have sealed corsair kit (DR5 6200 CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) just arrived as backup and if this does not work, ordering a msi unify-x .
I have a buddy with the same kit on the unify-x and no problems since day 1.

Updated the bios Version 1101 on the asus z690 apex 35 hours ago.
so far played a few hours of bf2042 since that was giving me the most memory ram crashes and a few other applications.
so far nothing, but too early to tell. im testing first with xmp, since manual overclocking was a nightmare to get stable earlier.

It has always passed memtest, and other memory tests since day1. it just always crashed when it was used in different applications.


----------



## asdkj1740

MC_SULY_514 said:


> What a disaster the asus z690 lineup has been, or maybe it's the "1st gen" g.skill ram.
> I know that G.Skill discontinued that ram set after 2months of initial release.
> 
> My "bad" Ram: G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK)
> The "new" batch: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.35v 36-36-36-96 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK)
> 
> Was getting BSOD/freezes with no overclock at call (ram nor cpu lol). waking up to desktop being frozen.
> tried every combo from win10 to win11 to single memory sticks.
> Don't even wanna talk about the overclocking ram let alone just pressing the XMP button lel
> I have sealed corsair kit (DR5 6200 CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) just arrived as backup and if this does not work, ordering a msi unify-x .
> I have a buddy with the same kit on the unify-x and no problems since day 1.
> 
> Updated the bios Version 1101 on the asus z690 apex 35 hours ago.
> so far played a few hours of bf2042 since that was giving me the most memory ram crashes and a few other applications.
> so far nothing, but too early to tell. im testing first with xmp, since manual overclocking was a nightmare to get stable earlier.
> 
> It has always passed memtest, and other memory tests since day1. it just always crashed when it was used in different applications.


are you sure the 6000u3636e / 6000u4040e are now discountiued?


----------



## MC_SULY_514

asdkj1740 said:


> are you sure the 6000u3636e / 6000u4040e are now discountiued?


yea im pretty sure it is. i checked on the newegg website and it says item is out of stock and might not be restocked. i personally asked them also.
i also checked with LDLC in france.


----------



## Vld

centvalny said:


> [email protected] air. Not as fast as Hynies yet! With more new release probly it will as fast as the higher bin Hynies.
> tRPRE 2 and dram clk 95
> View attachment 2546461


Thank you for posting your progress, i'm noob in memory OC, took some ideas on timings from your previous posts and came up with this. So far TM5 Anta7 extreme 1.5 hours stable.

Rig :

12900K [email protected] all core AVX 0
Z690 unify-x
G.Skill 6000 CL36 EK watercooled










If I may ask - any suggestions on improvements ?


----------



## 7empe

MC_SULY_514 said:


> What a disaster the asus z690 lineup has been, or maybe it's the "1st gen" g.skill ram.
> I know that G.Skill discontinued that ram set after 2months of initial release.
> 
> My "bad" Ram: G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK)
> The "new" batch: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.35v 36-36-36-96 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK)
> 
> Was getting BSOD/freezes with no overclock at call (ram nor cpu lol). waking up to desktop being frozen.
> tried every combo from win10 to win11 to single memory sticks.
> Don't even wanna talk about the overclocking ram let alone just pressing the XMP button lel
> I have sealed corsair kit (DR5 6200 CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) just arrived as backup and if this does not work, ordering a msi unify-x .
> I have a buddy with the same kit on the unify-x and no problems since day 1.
> 
> Updated the bios Version 1101 on the asus z690 apex 35 hours ago.
> so far played a few hours of bf2042 since that was giving me the most memory ram crashes and a few other applications.
> so far nothing, but too early to tell. im testing first with xmp, since manual overclocking was a nightmare to get stable earlier.
> 
> It has always passed memtest, and other memory tests since day1. it just always crashed when it was used in different applications.


Take a look here: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread

6200C28T1 & 6600C34T2 easy. Can’t get stable 1t at 6400C32 (yet?).

My kit is: F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK


----------



## MC_SULY_514

7empe said:


> Take a look here: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 6200C28T1 & 6600C34T2 easy. Can’t get stable 1t at 6400C32 (yet?).
> 
> My kit is: F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK


interesting, is that how you got it "stable"
did you update the bios also?


----------



## Vlados

i want to buy 2x32 hynix, will i lose much in overclocking if i choose this kit instead of 2x16? msi unify-x board. More interested in whether the latency between these two sets will differ greatly


----------



## RSR

Hi All, 

I normally don't post on here as I like read all the information, so this will be my first post. 

If anyone who has the following G.Skill 6400 kit (*F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*) are they able to check the SPD in the BIOS and post a image. I have checked this on both my Apex and Extreme boards. 

As I recieved this kit today and I have been struggling to get it stable and I have noticed the following: 

DIMM_A2










DIMM_B2










One stick is clearly showing up as a *F5-6000U4040E16G*

All other DDR5 I own is G.Skill 6000C36 kits and I have checked and they all match. 

If anyone else who is able to check and confirm for me, I would be very greatful.


----------



## Vld

MC_SULY_514 said:


> What a disaster the asus z690 lineup has been, or maybe it's the "1st gen" g.skill ram.
> I know that G.Skill discontinued that ram set after 2months of initial release.
> 
> My "bad" Ram: G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK)
> The "new" batch: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.35v 36-36-36-96 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK)
> 
> Was getting BSOD/freezes with no overclock at call (ram nor cpu lol). waking up to desktop being frozen.
> tried every combo from win10 to win11 to single memory sticks.
> Don't even wanna talk about the overclocking ram let alone just pressing the XMP button lel
> I have sealed corsair kit (DR5 6200 CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) just arrived as backup and if this does not work, ordering a msi unify-x .
> I have a buddy with the same kit on the unify-x and no problems since day 1.
> 
> Updated the bios Version 1101 on the asus z690 apex 35 hours ago.
> so far played a few hours of bf2042 since that was giving me the most memory ram crashes and a few other applications.
> so far nothing, but too early to tell. im testing first with xmp, since manual overclocking was a nightmare to get stable earlier.
> 
> It has always passed memtest, and other memory tests since day1. it just always crashed when it was used in different applications.


Sad to hear all ASUS Z690 "horror" stories, that is main reason why i chose MSI Unify-X and can tell - never have been that satisfied. Hard as a rock, dumb as a brick  
G.Skills worked out of box XMP enabled, super stable, now with latest bios beta A.22 can overclock quite easy.


----------



## borant

MC_SULY_514 said:


> What a disaster the asus z690 lineup has been, or maybe it's the "1st gen" g.skill ram.
> I know that G.Skill discontinued that ram set after 2months of initial release.
> 
> My "bad" Ram: G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK)
> The "new" batch: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.35v 36-36-36-96 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK)
> 
> Was getting BSOD/freezes with no overclock at call (ram nor cpu lol). waking up to desktop being frozen.
> tried every combo from win10 to win11 to single memory sticks.
> Don't even wanna talk about the overclocking ram let alone just pressing the XMP button lel
> I have sealed corsair kit (DR5 6200 CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) just arrived as backup and if this does not work, ordering a msi unify-x .
> I have a buddy with the same kit on the unify-x and no problems since day 1.
> 
> Updated the bios Version 1101 on the asus z690 apex 35 hours ago.
> so far played a few hours of bf2042 since that was giving me the most memory ram crashes and a few other applications.
> so far nothing, but too early to tell. im testing first with xmp, since manual overclocking was a nightmare to get stable earlier.
> 
> It has always passed memtest, and other memory tests since day1. it just always crashed when it was used in different applications.


Are you running AI overclocking by the chance? Both CPU and memory AI overclocking should not be used at the same time. If you turned on AI overclocking and XMP I then you may have issues with any stick version/vendor.
6000U3636 is perfectly stable with VDD/VDDQ changed to 1.35V. It is very well known issue with U.


----------



## centvalny

Vld said:


> Thank you for posting your progress, i'm noob in memory OC, took some ideas on timings from your previous posts and came up with this. So far TM5 Anta7 extreme 1.5 hours stable.
> 
> Rig :
> 
> 12900K [email protected] all core AVX 0
> Z690 unify-x
> G.Skill 6000 CL36 EK watercooled
> 
> View attachment 2546464
> 
> 
> If I may ask - any suggestions on improvements ?


Awesome settings with 6000c36 sticks! I am not familiar with MSI board, but if you can find setting for dram clock period in bios try 83 for ram @6400, [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]


----------



## Vld

centvalny said:


> Awesome settings with 6000c36 sticks! I am not familiar with MSI board, but if you can find setting for dram clock period in bios try 83 for ram @6400, [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]


Thank’s, will try


----------



## MC_SULY_514

borant said:


> Are you running AI overclocking by the chance? Both CPU and memory AI overclocking should not be used at the same time. If you turned on AI overclocking and XMP I then you may have issues with any stick version/vendor.
> 6000U3636 is perfectly stable with VDD/VDDQ changed to 1.35V. It is very well known issue with U.


i never run AI overclock. always disable as much AI auto stuff as i can.
this was all running stock.
for testing purposes now im just running xmp1 too see how it behaves. than xmp2 than i'll go from there full manual tweaking.
not wasting my time no more on this lol


----------



## MC_SULY_514

Vld said:


> Sad to hear all ASUS Z690 "horror" stories, that is main reason why i chose MSI Unify-X and can tell - never have been that satisfied. Hard as a rock, dumb as a brick
> G.Skills worked out of box XMP enabled, super stable, now with latest bios beta A.22 can overclock quite easy.


lucky, i usually always choose msi, but hate the customer service.
asus i always had A+ customer service. never a problem in replacing or exchanging stuff under warranty. fast too


----------



## borant

MC_SULY_514 said:


> i never run AI overclock. always disable as much AI auto stuff as i can.
> this was all running stock.
> for testing purposes now im just running xmp1 too see how it behaves. than xmp2 than i'll go from there full manual tweaking.
> not wasting my time no more on this lol


With your ASIS MB there is no need to spend any time with 6000U3636 unless you are looking for extra overclocking with forced or or water cooling setup.
The best fast and stable and non-overheating profile is preloaded in BIOS in Memory Timings/Memory Profiles menu as a part of ASUS memory profiles feature.
It is 6000 C32 1T with AIDA64 read speed right under 100GB/s and 55ns latency. Under stress test it heats to 65C and anything higher may have either looser timings or will need cooling.
I think it is the last in the list "Samsung 6000 1.435V".


----------



## fortecosi

Guys I don´t know, but your "horror" stories with Asus z690 and *XMP* profiles unable to run properly sounds like a BS to me. There is literally no difference Unify-x vs Apex in term of running modules close to XMP. You just can´t notice any difference. And if your glorified XMP really does not work as plug and play, because you are unable to just raise VDD/Q by 0.01V to make it happen, perhaps tune SA a bit, then what are you doing on this forum? I am running a Corsair kit Samsung ICs 5600 @6000 T1 on the Apex and I am rock stable 24/7 no matter what 😯 And I am just a noob! There are as well users with 7k+ on the Apex, huh? How is it even possible by your logic? Remember, most of the time, the limit is not the board, it is the CPU!


----------



## Sayenah

fortecosi said:


> Guys I don´t know, but your "horror" stories with Asus z690 and *XMP* profiles unable to run properly sounds like a BS to me. There is literally no difference Unify-x vs Apex in term of running modules close to XMP. You just can´t notice any difference. And if your glorified XMP really does not work as plug and play, because you are unable to just raise VDD/Q by 0.01V to make it happen, perhaps tune SA a bit, then what are you doing on this forum? I am running a Corsair kit Samsung ICs 5600 @6000 T1 on the Apex and I am rock stable 24/7 no matter what 😯 And I am just a noob! There are as well users with 7k+ on the Apex, huh? How is it even possible by your logic? Remember, most of the time, the limit is not the board, it is the CPU!


You are underestimating the role of hardware quality and its consistency throughout a product line. Asus Apex, like the rest of its Z690 lineup, suffers from hardware quality inconsistency relatively more than MSI’s Z690 offerings. That’s why some Apex boards can’t even pull XMP while others can easily. Try testing individual DIMMS on your board. Sure, the chip plays a major role, but I suspect this time around we are dealing with a lot more unknowns from Asus QA than in the past. Couple that with chip inconsistency, which is always a given, and you see all these posts of people complaining. They aren’t making this up. Check out Buildzoid’s thoughts on this. His Alex has a busted A DIMM; can’t go past 5000MHz

Asus trying to pinch pennies and it shows.


----------



## fortecosi

Sayenah said:


> You are underestimating the role of hardware quality and its consistency throughout a product line. Asus Apex, like the rest of its Z690 lineup, suffers from consistency hardware quality relatively more than MSI’s Z690 offerings. That’s why some Apex boards can’t even pull XMP while others can easily. Try testing individual DIMMS on your board. Sure, the chip plays a major role, but I suspect this time around we are dealing with a lot more unknowns from Asus QA than in the past. Couple that with chip inconsistency, which is always a given, and you see all these posts of people complaining. They aren’t making this up. Check out Buildzoid’s thoughts on this. His Alex has a busted A DIMM; can’t go past 5000MHz
> 
> Asus trying to pinch pennies and it shows.


buildzoid blablabla... please not here, this is still serious forum. And Channels depends on the CPU too, it´s much harder for CPU IMC to run B then A, but it is not anything new. But if buildzoid can´t run more than 5000, he should not talk about computers anymore, idk what to say. The whole story about him - he is sponzored by gigabyte, and msi send him quite few boards every generation as well. On he other hand, Asus completely ignores him, they don´t give him anything at all. And thats why all his videos abour Asus are salty! What a surprise...


----------



## Sayenah

fortecosi said:


> buildzoid blablabla... please not here, this is still serious forum. And Channels depends on the CPU too, it´s much harder for CPU IMC to run B then A, but it is not anything new. But if buildzoid can´t run more than 5000, he should not talk about computers anymore, idk what to say. The whole story about him - he is sponzored by gigabyte, and msi send him quite few boards every generation as well. On he other hand, Asus completely ignores him, they don´t give him anything at all. And thats why all his videos abour Asus are salty! What a surprise...


Whatever dude. Buildzoid’s alright in my books. Asus is being shat on by MSI when it comes to running faster and tighter sticks. Deal with it and cut out the annoying Asus simping. 

Trust me, I am a big fan of Asus AI OC (I have no time to tinker; I would rather pay a premium for plug and play). Everything I have is Asus, but this time I ended up sending the Apex back in favor of a Unify-X. First time using another brand than Asus since building PCs.


----------



## Talon2016

My Trident Z5 6400 CL32 Hynix sticks work fine at XMP on my Hero board. Also worked great with my 6000 CL36 Samsung sticks OC to C32.

I did notice XMP applies a default 1.385v to my IMC for the 6400mhz sticks. Is that safe for daily use? What are you guys using for high memory speeds? I tried to lower it to 1.275v and it passes Karhu but crashes BF2042 pretty fast into a match. I’ll try and see if 1.3 or 1.325v gets it done. Just got them yesterday and haven’t had much time to mess with them yet outside of an overnight Mem test at XMP.


----------



## Stockman

asdkj1740 said:


> msi latest beta bios (a23) does support microcode selection. i believe asus could have done the same if they wanted to.


What board is A23 for? If Unify-X can you please post a link? A22 is latest I see on their beta page


----------



## Silent Scone

Nizzen said:


> Pmic is build to live under high temperature. 90c is no problem for pmic. I think Shamino said that a few months ago. Memorychips don't like high temp. Maybe it's a reason like muad said
> 
> Watercool everything is still king 😎


Yep, the PMIC is fine operating at those temps. He is right to question if transferring this energy is beneficial if the cooling solution isn’t capable of dissipating it. On water, it makes more sense.


----------



## centvalny

Quick comparo Samsung and Hynix ram chipset @ 7200c32 air


----------



## Silent Scone

Sayenah said:


> You are underestimating the role of hardware quality and its consistency throughout a product line. Asus Apex, like the rest of its Z690 lineup, suffers from hardware quality inconsistency relatively more than MSI’s Z690 offerings. That’s why some Apex boards can’t even pull XMP while others can easily. Try testing individual DIMMS on your board. Sure, the chip plays a major role, but I suspect this time around we are dealing with a lot more unknowns from Asus QA than in the past. Couple that with chip inconsistency, which is always a given, and you see all these posts of people complaining. They aren’t making this up. Check out Buildzoid’s thoughts on this. His Alex has a busted A DIMM; can’t go past 5000MHz
> 
> Asus trying to pinch pennies and it shows.


Hello,

Seems like a lot of speculation. Throwing in “I suspect” based on a faulty unit and perhaps your own misadventure suddenly resulting in meaning there are QA issues is a huge stretch.

This platform is very sensitive to combinations of hardware on multiple voltage rails. For example, in instances where impedance matching isn’t quite good enough it requires the user to take the right approach to dial things out. This is where a lot of users fall over, as they believe more voltage is better.

Crudely speaking it’s mostly tuning situations like the above. Any board to board tolerances you think there are, I would dial that thinking back from 11 to 1 or 2 on the philosophical scale. If we were talking hypothetically it would be at the very limits. Right now that’s governed by the IC’s themselves and of course, the CPU, so around 8GHz and up. Ergo, tolerances around more pedestrian frequency and timings are a non-issue.


----------



## 7empe

MC_SULY_514 said:


> interesting, is that how you got it "stable"
> did you update the bios also?


Now I’m on 1101, but overclock was made on 9901.


----------



## asdkj1740

Stockman said:


> What board is A23 for? If Unify-X can you please post a link? A22 is latest I see on their beta page


force and carbon both have a23 (just released few days ago). 
and force a23 got this:








MSI partially reenables Alder Lake-S AVX-512 support for MEG Z690 Unify-X motherboard - VideoCardz.com


MSI reintroduced AVX-512 microcode support for its Z690 Unify-X motherboard MSI Z690 motherboard’s latest A22 BIOS comes with a microcode selector offering either its latest version or an older one with AVX-512 instruction support. Intel’s last-minute change to disable AVX-512 instruction has...




videocardz.com


----------



## ZeroStrat

Does anybody have a Gigabyte Tachyon? What is the best AIDA64 memory latency that you guys can achieve with this board? Tbh, mine doesn't run well. I'm not able to get a latency lower than 53ns even with 6600MT/s and tight timings.


----------



## Sayenah

Silent Scone said:


> Hello,
> 
> Seems like a lot of speculation. Throwing in “I suspect” based on a faulty unit and perhaps your own misadventure suddenly resulting in meaning there are QA issues is a huge stretch.
> 
> This platform is very sensitive to combinations of hardware on multiple voltage rails. For example, in instances where impedance matching isn’t quite good enough it requires the user to take the right approach to dial things out. This is where a lot of users fall over, as they believe more voltage is better.
> 
> Crudely speaking it’s mostly tuning situations like the above. Any board to board tolerances you think there are, I would dial that thinking back from 11 to 1 or 2 on the philosophical scale. If we were talking hypothetically it would be at the very limits. Right now that’s governed by the IC’s themselves and of course, the CPU, so around 8GHz and up. Ergo, tolerances around more pedestrian frequency and timings are a non-issue.


You know, you are right. Let me stop assuming that there are QA issues. It just might be a relatively worse designed board than the UnifyX. 

Nothing you said changes the fact that Unify-X is taking a huge dump on the Apex when it comes to memory training and OC stability. It just works better, trains memory better, and overall is a more stable board. 

I also think that we have now had enough lead time to gauge who has built a better board, and who hasn’t. Apex clearly has issues, and one can keep fingers crossed for the next BIOS update. Tried two Apex units, both had issues with out of the box XMP 1 profiles on T-Force 6000c40 and G.Skill 6400c32. No issues with UnifyX. Hey, who knows, maybe I got two defective units in a row, right? In that case, I am just relaying my experience. 

Call me just another consumer, I don’t care, I actually am. Maybe we are entirely different demographics; I prefer throwing money at things which, relatively, work easier and smoother. Like I said, I have always bought Asus, no complaints before. 

I don’t know if you work for Asus but gauge the memory training process on the UnifyX, takes milliseconds, where the Apex sits and counts beans… and still fails (talking vanilla XMP)

P.s. don’t get me wrong, I am not in love with the UnifyX as well; MSI tends to be ghetto… look at the way they dropped the Thunderbolt ball. Plus their forums are sad.


----------



## Silent Scone

Sayenah said:


> You know, you are right. Let me stop assuming that there are QA issues. It just might be a relatively worse designed board than the UnifyX.
> 
> Nothing you said changes the fact that Unify-X is taking a huge dump on the Apex when it comes to memory training and OC stability. It just works better, trains memory better, and overall is a more stable board.
> 
> I also think that we have now had enough lead time to gauge who has built a better board, and who hasn’t. Apex clearly has issues, and one can keep fingers crossed for the next BIOS update. Tried two Apex units, both had issues with out of the box XMP 1 profiles on T-Force 6000c40 and G.Skill 6400c32. No issues with UnifyX. Hey, who knows, maybe I got two defective units in a row, right? In that case, I am just relaying my experience.
> 
> Call me just another consumer, I don’t care, I actually am. Maybe we are entirely different demographics; I prefer throwing money at things which, relatively, work easier and smoother. Like I said, I have always bought Asus, no complaints before.
> 
> I don’t know if you work for Asus but gauge the memory training process on the UnifyX, takes milliseconds, where the Apex sits and counts beans… and still fails (talking vanilla XMP)
> 
> P.s. don’t get me wrong, I am not in love with the UnifyX as well; MSI tends to be ghetto… look at the way they dropped the Thunderbolt ball. Plus their forums are sad.



I think the board holds its own, really? Probably best not to chase ghosts!

I've had 6800 working stable since only a week or two after launch, and have had no problems training XMP. Perhaps I'm in the minority, or it's more likely that I'm not. I've nothing sensible to add on judging a board's performance based on how long it takes to train. Lest we forget that easier often means slower in most cases.









G.Skill sETS DDR5 WR With Overclocked DDR5-8888 RAM


G.Skill and Asus have teamed together once again to set a new world record for DDR5 overclocking. Under extreme liquid nitrogen cooling, the Trident Z5 memory reached DDR5-8888....




www.guru3d.com


----------



## ZeroStrat

Zemach said:


> kingston 6000 C40 1.35 OC 6400Cl 28 37 37 28 1t 1.575v Room 33c


Can you please share the AIDA64 numbers?


----------



## Sayenah

Silent Scone said:


> I think the board holds it own, really? Probably best not to chase ghosts!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill sETS DDR5 WR With Overclocked DDR5-8888 RAM
> 
> 
> G.Skill and Asus have teamed together once again to set a new world record for DDR5 overclocking. Under extreme liquid nitrogen cooling, the Trident Z5 memory reached DDR5-8888....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com


By the way, I do want to take a moment to thank you for producing some of the most informative posts on here and Asus forums! I am new to OC’ing but I have learnt a lot from you. Folks like yourself keep these hobbies alive! Cheers!


----------



## asdkj1740

MC_SULY_514 said:


> yea im pretty sure it is. i checked on the newegg website and it says item is out of stock and might not be restocked. i personally asked them also.
> i also checked with LDLC in france.


i...feel like scammed.

i still got bsod/game crashes/tm5 errors after reboots(passed tm5).
tried unplugging the power cord for minutes.


----------



## bl4ckdot

fortecosi said:


> buildzoid blablabla... please not here, this is still serious forum. And Channels depends on the CPU too, it´s much harder for CPU IMC to run B then A, but it is not anything new. But if buildzoid can´t run more than 5000, he should not talk about computers anymore, idk what to say. The whole story about him - he is sponzored by gigabyte, and msi send him quite few boards every generation as well. On he other hand, Asus completely ignores him, they don´t give him anything at all. And thats why all his videos abour Asus are salty! What a surprise...


It doesn't take BZ to see that the Apex is **** with 2 dimms on many samples.


----------



## Nizzen

fortecosi said:


> Guys I don´t know, but your "horror" stories with Asus z690 and *XMP* profiles unable to run properly sounds like a BS to me. There is literally no difference Unify-x vs Apex in term of running modules close to XMP. You just can´t notice any difference. And if your glorified XMP really does not work as plug and play, because you are unable to just raise VDD/Q by 0.01V to make it happen, perhaps tune SA a bit, then what are you doing on this forum? I am running a Corsair kit Samsung ICs 5600 @6000 T1 on the Apex and I am rock stable 24/7 no matter what 😯 And I am just a noob! There are as well users with 7k+ on the Apex, huh? How is it even possible by your logic? Remember, most of the time, the limit is not the board, it is the CPU!





Sayenah said:


> Whatever dude. Buildzoid’s alright in my books. Asus is being shat on by MSI when it comes to running faster and tighter sticks. Deal with it and cut out the annoying Asus simping.
> 
> Trust me, I am a big fan of Asus AI OC (I have no time to tinker; I would rather pay a premium for plug and play). Everything I have is Asus, but this time I ended up sending the Apex back in favor of a Unify-X. First time using another brand than Asus since building PCs.


Show us the higher frequeny and tighter timings with BETTER results than Apex. We want to compare numbers! This is what we like 
Last someone posted Msi unify x result, it had high latency in Aida. Pleace post better results, so we have something to aim for 

I'm a performance fanboy, so I like every name and color, but it has to be fast


----------



## ZeroStrat

Yeah, I have to agree. Please share more benchmarks in this thread. Personally I would like to see more gaming benchmarks like SotTR or FH5.


----------



## Silent Scone

ZeroStrat said:


> Yeah, I have to agree. Please share more benchmarks in this thread. Personally I would like to see more gaming benchmarks like SotTR or FH5.


The problem with that is you need to factor in almost every other subsystem. If you're making comparisons memory benchmarks make more sense. If the latency is lower and the throughput higher then that is going to be transferable in memory-sensitive gaming benchmarks, also.


----------



## Sayenah

Nizzen said:


> Show us the higher frequeny and tighter timings with BETTER results than Apex. We want to compare numbers! This is what we like
> Last someone posted Msi unify x result, it had high latency in Aida. Pleace post better results, so we have something to aim for
> 
> I'm a performance fanboy, so I like every name and color, but it has to be fast


My experience is only with XMP; I haven’t done much tinkering. Both Apex units had trouble running T-force 6000c40 and G.Skill 6400c32 had trouble with stability on both Apex units. Not the case with UnifyX. As I said, I am just relaying what I have experienced.


----------



## Silent Scone

Sayenah said:


> My experience is only with XMP; I haven’t done much tinkering. Both Apex units had trouble running T-force 6000c40 and G.Skill 6400c32 had trouble with stability on both Apex units. Not the case with UnifyX. As I said, I am just relaying what I have experienced.


Yes, not enough to go on. Could be any number of reasons. Memory rules inc sub timings will be different, for one. As I said to your comment on POST memory stress tests, easier often means slower - which adds weight to what @Nizzen is saying.

With all the variables, showing results is the best way to do the talking


----------



## knock

ZeroStrat said:


> Does anybody have a Gigabyte Tachyon? What is the best AIDA64 memory latency that you guys can achieve with this board? Tbh, mine doesn't run well. I'm not able to get a latency lower than 53ns even with 6600MT/s and tight timings.
> 
> View attachment 2546507


I've got one and that memory kit. Can boot way tighter than that at 6600 on the official BIOS and run stuff like Geekbench 3 and y-cruncher but haven't tried AIDA. I'll run it tomorrow on the trial version (only buy benchmarks that give HWBoints) after waking up, it's hooked up to my phase change so not a quick thing to check.

My i5 is coming tomorrow so might wait until after that actually.


----------



## 7empe

So, saddly, my one stick of F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK is dead. No SPD info, BIOS sees only 16GB. I have removed the waterblock, swapped the sticks - no changes. While booting on single (damaged?) stick Apex gives me q-code 53. All what I did was 1.52V VDD/VDDQ and 6800C36. Worked fine, benched fine. After next reboot I did not see one DIMM in HWINFO... and that's it game over. Was it really 1.52V too high?


----------



## asdkj1740

7empe said:


> So, saddly, my one stick of F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK is dead. No SPD info, BIOS sees only 16GB. I have removed the waterblock, swapped the sticks - no changes. While booting on single (damaged?) stick Apex gives me q-code 53. All what I did was 1.52V VDD/VDDQ and 6800C36. Worked fine, benched fine. After next reboot I did not see one DIMM in HWINFO... and that's it game over. Was it really 1.52V too high?


actually, good to you. get a replacement and sell it//ask for refund.


----------



## asdkj1740

Sayenah said:


> My experience is only with XMP; I haven’t done much tinkering. Both Apex units had trouble running T-force 6000c40 and G.Skill 6400c32 had trouble with stability on both Apex units. Not the case with UnifyX. As I said, I am just relaying what I have experienced.


i am using msi z690, and my kit have been haunted by bsod / game crash / errors after reboot.


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> actually, good to you. get a replacement and sell it//ask for refund.


Ordered g.skill 6400C32... hope it will be better: F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS
Thoughts?


----------



## Forsaken1

ZeroStrat said:


> Does anybody have a Gigabyte Tachyon? What is the best AIDA64 memory latency that you guys can achieve with this board? Tbh, mine doesn't run well. I'm not able to get a latency lower than 53ns even with 6600MT/s and tight


Go 6800+ on memory for low latency in Aidia.Crank CPU up.Tighten timings particularly trfc.
May want to try bios located at HWBOT.Lower RTL’S.
No 1T support on tachyon is a b i t c h.


----------



## Silent Scone

7empe said:


> So, saddly, my one stick of F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK is dead. No SPD info, BIOS sees only 16GB. I have removed the waterblock, swapped the sticks - no changes. While booting on single (damaged?) stick Apex gives me q-code 53. All what I did was 1.52V VDD/VDDQ and 6800C36. Worked fine, benched fine. After next reboot I did not see one DIMM in HWINFO... and that's it game over. Was it really 1.52V too high?


Doubtful on the voltage. If sticks are faulty they’re more likely to fail sooner rather than later.


----------



## 7empe

Silent Scone said:


> Doubtful on the voltage. If sticks are faulty they’re more likely to fail sooner rather than later.


Yes. Can't return them though, as were disassembled for the water block installation... I had them for three weeks.


----------



## newls1

Guys, quick assistance please. Going to be swapping to ddr5 and was wondering my local mc has 2 versions of the gskill 6000 sets. 1 is 6000”u” and the other is 6000”j” ….. am I correct in thinking that the “J” set is the preferred version to get and almost certainly Hynix based?


----------



## BHK

Hi guys,

This is the first post on OCN (and might be the last post). After reading a few articles about the Apex and Unify-X, I would like to share my personal experience with you. FYI, I personally enjoy overclock and have no connection with MSI or ASUS.

Here are the boards and DDR5 RAMs I've experienced so far.

*[M/B]*
- 1 ASUS Extreme board
- 3 ASUS APEX boards
- 1 Unify-X board
- 2 Unify ITX boards (the first one was defective)

*[RAM]*
- Bare-faced Hynix RAM (like DELL hynix) : 2 sets (4 sticks)
- Teamgroup 6400 C40 RAMs : 3 sets
- Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM : 1 set
- G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 : 2 sets

Here are the best effort overclocking results for APEX and Unify-X and itx (sorry for Korean).
All results are 10 rounds TM5 tested with Extreme1 profile.

*[Apex]*
- binned bare-faced Hynix RAM: 6800 C32
- I couldn't get 7000 on all three APEX boards and was frustrated that the left slot was not much better than the right (last test bios - 0080 and 1101).
(the worst 1 stick tests : left 6800 vs right 7600 booting on the same board)


















*[Unify-X]*
- Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM (7000 C30-42-42)










- slightly more tight ver









- G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 (7000 C32-40-40) : no screenshot ;-), but it was passed


*[Unify ITX] - no AIDA test but expect same results with above screenshots*
- G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 (7000 C32-40-40)











- Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM (7000 C30-42-42)










I've spent more time on APEX so far, but now I'm using Unify-x. I hope it will improve in the future.


----------



## Carillo

*This post has NOTHING to do with "DDR5 24/7 daily Memory Stability", BUT DDR5 and 24/7 stability rarely comes in the same sentence, so what the heck: 
The new G.Skill 6400 c32 kit seems promising  *

*7900mhz boot to windows is beyond everything else i have tried  Retiring the Dell kit , and slapping some waterblocks on them later today  *


----------



## akgis

7empe said:


> Take a look here: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 6200C28T1 & 6600C34T2 easy. Can’t get stable 1t at 6400C32 (yet?).
> 
> My kit is: F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK


Hello got a memtweakit screenshot of your 6200 low CL OC? I have the exact same sticks but having trouble running tighter timmings Iam on Hero thou trying the SA trick of 0.92 isntead of the 1.23 AUTO

Can someone else share me the latest Asrock Timming Config app


----------



## Simkin

newls1 said:


> Guys, quick assistance please. Going to be swapping to ddr5 and was wondering my local mc has 2 versions of the gskill 6000 sets. 1 is 6000”u” and the other is 6000”j” ….. am I correct in thinking that the “J” set is the preferred version to get and almost certainly Hynix based?


Both U and J 5600/6000 is Samsung. 6400 is Hynix.


----------



## newls1

Simkin said:


> Both U and J 5600/6000 is Samsung. 6400 is Hynix.


THANK YOU! I will find 6400 kit then.... Im assuming hynix is the way to go as of current?


----------



## FlanK3r

BHK said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> This is the first post on OCN (and might be the last post). After reading a few articles about the Apex and Unify-X, I would like to share my personal experience with you. FYI, I personally enjoy overclock and have no connection with MSI or ASUS.
> 
> Here are the boards and DDR5 RAMs I've experienced so far.
> 
> *[M/B]*
> - 1 ASUS Extreme board
> - 3 ASUS APEX boards
> - 1 Unify-X board
> - 2 Unify ITX boards (the first one was defective)
> 
> *[RAM]*
> - Bare-faced Hynix RAM (like DELL hynix) : 2 sets (4 sticks)
> - Teamgroup 6400 C40 RAMs : 3 sets
> - Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM : 1 set
> - G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 : 2 sets
> 
> Here are the best effort overclocking results for APEX and Unify-X and itx (sorry for Korean).
> All results are 10 rounds TM5 tested with Extreme1 profile.
> 
> *[Apex]*
> - binned bare-faced Hynix RAM: 6800 C32
> - I couldn't get 7000 on all three APEX boards and was frustrated that the left slot was not much better than the right.
> (the worst 1 stick tests : left 6800 vs right 7600 booting on the same board)
> 
> View attachment 2546512
> 
> View attachment 2546515
> 
> 
> *[Unify-X]*
> - Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM (7000 C30-42-42)
> 
> View attachment 2546523
> 
> 
> - slightly more tight ver
> View attachment 2546524
> 
> 
> - G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 (7000 C32-40-40) : no screenshot ;-), but it was passed
> 
> 
> *[Unify ITX] - no AIDA test but expect same results with above screenshots*
> - G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 (7000 C32-40-40)
> 
> View attachment 2546520
> 
> 
> 
> - Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM (7000 C30-42-42)
> View attachment 2546518
> 
> 
> 
> I've spent more time on APEX so far, but now I'm using Unify-x. I hope it will improve in the future.



Try new BIOS on Apex, 0010 is very old and last few newer are much better for DRAM tweaking  But thank you for shared results throught the boards


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

newls1 said:


> THANK YOU! I will find 6400 kit then.... Im assuming hynix is the way to go as of current?


Hynix is the new Samsung B-die for ddr5. Samsung is still good though and could get better with future bios updates. Micron is the worse of the three.


----------



## bl4ckdot

What bench do you guys want here ? GB3, aida, Intel MLC ?
I currently have the UX and a coming Aqua OC, so I'll do comparison between them. 
As for the memory, I have a binned hynix kit so it shouldnt be an issue.


----------



## asdkj1740

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Hynix is the new Samsung B-die for ddr5. Samsung is still good though and could get better with future bios updates. Micron is the worse of the three.


for benching, yes.
for 24/7, no.


----------



## newls1

asdkj1740 said:


> for benching, yes.
> for 24/7, no.


care to elaborate please?


----------



## newls1

Will there be a big difference with ram OCing if I decide to save 130$ and go with the MSI Z690 Carbon/gaming Force motherboard as opposed to the Unify X? Im certainly NOT looking to break records of course, just looking for a stable 6400MT/s speeds with great timings.. Can the Carbon / Gaming Force boards do this reliably as well? If t his is the case, I can go get this stuff tomorrow from MC.
_EDIT_ What is the preferred Hynix chip? I see some have SKhynix and Some ram modules say SKhynix "M" memory chips??


----------



## jollib

FYI this is available but at 200 a stick..... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...gsd54800_tb_16gb_performnce_ddr5_4800mhz.html
sk hynix according to msi qvl


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Vld said:


> Thank you for posting your progress, i'm noob in memory OC, took some ideas on timings from your previous posts and came up with this. So far TM5 Anta7 extreme 1.5 hours stable.
> 
> Rig :
> 
> 12900K [email protected] all core AVX 0
> Z690 unify-x
> G.Skill 6000 CL36 EK watercooled
> 
> View attachment 2546464
> 
> 
> If I may ask - any suggestions on improvements ?


Is these VDD/DQ of 3,8v real?
EDITED:
I don't think so... There are a lot of weird voltages... lol


----------



## Carillo

The waterblocks is on 

6933 c30

CPU : 12900K SP101 with E-cores enabled
DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
Voltages : SA 0.96v / TX 1.575 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.5
Ram cooling : Supercool waterblocks


----------



## 7empe

Carillo said:


> The waterblocks is on
> 
> 6933 c30
> 
> CPU : 12900K SP101 with E-cores enabled
> DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> Voltages : SA 0.96v / TX 1.575 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.5
> Ram cooling : Supercool waterblocks
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546569


Going to have these in few days . Are you going daily with these voltages?


----------



## Carillo

7empe said:


> Going to have these in few days . Are you going daily with these voltages?


1,6 is pretty low, so yes


----------



## MarkDeMark

Corsair Platinum Dominator CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 - CL36-39-39-76 
Ring a bell for anyone? Seem like a sure bet Hynix...?


----------



## roooo

Folks, just out of curiosity: what's your take on reloading old BIOS settings after up/downgrading the BIOS on Asus boards (Apex for example)? Are you fine with that, or do you prefer to start from scratch with every newly flashed BIOS just to make sure nothing got stuck?


----------



## marc0053

Been wanting to do a gaming comparison for a while now with a decent memory OC for DDR5.
I compared 4 scenarios using a 12900kf + RTX 3080 on the ASRock Aqua OC.
This is on a 1440p monitor @ 165hz and restarted the PC between benchmarks.
Peak power was measured directly at the wall using a watt meter for the full system.

1) Stock
2) CPU OC + MEM OC
3) CPU OC + MEM OC + GPU OC
4) CPU OC + MEM OC + GPU OC + e-cores disabled











Spoiler: my rig at 21C ambient temperature

















Spoiler: 3) vs 4)

























Spoiler: Counter Strike Source









































Spoiler: StarCraft 2









































Spoiler: CyberPunk 2077









































Spoiler: GTA V









































Spoiler: Assassins Creed Valhalla


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> Folks, just out of curiosity: what's your take on reloading old BIOS settings after up/downgrading the BIOS on Asus boards (Apex for example)? Are you fine with that, or do you prefer to start from scratch with every newly flashed BIOS just to make sure nothing got stuck?


Not a problem with Apex, done it many times


----------



## Stockman

MarkDeMark said:


> Corsair Platinum Dominator CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 - CL36-39-39-76
> Ring a bell for anyone? Seem like a sure bet Hynix...?


It was for me. I posted CPU-Z shots earlier.


----------



## Stockman

Carillo said:


> Not a problem with Apex, done it many times


Not the answer I was expecting, but good to know. I think some boards block you from loading previous version profiles (at least my z390 DARK did). Not sure if applicable to any z690 boards (besides Apex, as you've already confirmed). Have not tried on UNIFY-X.

I thought there was always a chance that a setting could be moved or changed somehow between updates.


----------



## Carillo

Stockman said:


> Not the answer I was expecting, but good to know. I think some boards block you from loading previous version profiles (at least my z390 DARK did). Not sure if applicable to any z690 boards (besides Apex, as you've already confirmed). Have not tried on UNIFY-X.
> 
> I thought there was always a chance that a setting could be moved or changed somehow between updates.


With z490 MSI this was the case i remember. Could not load CMO created on older bios.


----------



## roooo

MC_SULY_514 said:


> On another note Just thought i'd give an update on Asus z690 Apex memory problems, in case others have this problem.
> apex bios 1101 helps with stability a lot. haven't had any issues for a few days.
> on another note i noticed the DDR5 ram i have is "discontinued" and have contacted g.skill on this matter/problems i been having, and they approved my rma for a fresh replacements set.
> i don't know if it will be that specific batch i listed but should be something "new'". couldn't hurt getting a new set.
> 
> my g Ram: G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK) ("discontinued")
> new batch: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.35v 36-36-36-96 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK) (released after 2 months of initial release)


That's interesting, because I have been running the former since mid-december at 6000C32 without issues.


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> That's interesting, because I have been running the former since mid-december at 6000C32 without issues.


I think this is the reason of discontinuation: _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...

Also found 3 different people, on different forums with exactly the same issue. I had SPD write disabled but this SPD is full of trash now - sometimes I can read it through OCtools, but can’t overwrite it in anyway. In BIOS stick is gone completely, no SPD info, nothing. Stuck at 16GB. The only thing that works are rainbow LEDs on that stick…
Wrote to GSkill tech support, because kit was water cooled so I think I cannot RMA it. I just ordered green Kingston single stick 4800C40 1.1V. If it is Hynix I will have a high chance to set both sticks on equal OC. And a pair of new 6400C32 from GSkill is on the way too… (been lucky with this order af).


----------



## roooo

7empe said:


> I think this is the reason of discontinuation: _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Also found 3 different people, on different forums with exactly the same issue. I had SPD write disabled but this SPD is full of trash now - sometimes I can read it through OCtools, but can’t overwrite it in anyway. In BIOS stick is gone completely, no SPD info, nothing. Stuck at 16GB. The only thing that works are rainbow LEDs on that stick…


Yeah I had read that, too. Wonder if I should try to get it exchanged/returned before they crap out on me...


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> Yeah I had read that, too. Wonder if I should try to get it exchanged/returned before they crap out on me...


It’s a matter of time. Yesterday everything was great and have been running them at 6200C32 1.44V so nothing special. Today turned up PC and missing Hwinfo data for DIMM 2… Had them for about 3 weeks ;(


----------



## centvalny

BHK said:


> *[Apex]*
> - binned bare-faced Hynix RAM: 6800 C32
> - I couldn't get 7000 on all three APEX boards and was frustrated that the left slot was not much better than the right (last test bios - 0080 and 1101).
> (the worst 1 stick tests : left 6800 vs right 7600 booting on the same board)
> 
> View attachment 2546512
> 
> View attachment 2546515
> 
> 
> *[Unify-X]*
> - Teamgroup 6200 C36 RAM (7000 C30-42-42)
> 
> View attachment 2546523
> 
> 
> - slightly more tight ver
> View attachment 2546524
> 
> 
> - G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 (7000 C32-40-40) : no screenshot ;-), but it was passed


Your binned bare faced hynix, like Dell hynix green sticks most likely Renassas pmic secured or locked @ 1.435v max. Apex bioses since 0021 able to unlocked it, but can not go 1:1 beetween bios set and windows eventual Vdd/Vddq because secured pmic can not produce enough voltage to scale.
If your green rams can not boot at 7K then it just simply can not scale up with given bios voltage.

Heres Dell green hynix bios set









Windows eventual Vdd and Vddq










Your Team and Gskill kits have unsecured pmic that can go 1:1 bios to windows


----------



## Dinnzy

Getting memory errors right off the bat with my g skill 6400 Hynix ;p what’s the move ? I tried the 6200 Hynix profile also was getting errors. I’m on an apex 0811 bios.


----------



## Carillo

In advance, I apologize for posting AGAIN! This will be the last in a while, I promise! But finally 7000 c30! Come on! : D


CPU : 12900K SP101 with E-cores enabled
DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
Voltages : SA 0.96v / TX 1.600 / MC 1.35v / VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.5
Ram cooling : Supercool water-blocks
APEX!


----------



## satinghostrider

Dinnzy said:


> Getting memory errors right off the bat with my g skill 6400 Hynix ;p what’s the move ? I tried the 6200 Hynix profile also was getting errors. I’m on an apex 0811 bios.


Use 1101 Bios on official site. Not 0811.


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> Will there be a big difference with ram OCing if I decide to save 130$ and go with the MSI Z690 Carbon/gaming Force motherboard as opposed to the Unify X? Im certainly NOT looking to break records of course, just looking for a stable 6400MT/s speeds with great timings.. Can the Carbon / Gaming Force boards do this reliably as well? If t his is the case, I can go get this stuff tomorrow from MC.
> _EDIT_ What is the preferred Hynix chip? I see some have SKhynix and Some ram modules say SKhynix "M" memory chips??


Any insite here?


----------



## ObviousCough

The IMC in my Celeron is very strong. Also it does 5100MHz.

1.46 VDD/VDDQ
1.4v VDDQ TX
1.3v IMC
0.95V SA


----------



## Syhndel

7empe said:


> It’s a matter of time. Yesterday everything was great and have been running them at 6200C32 1.44V so nothing special. Today turned up PC and missing Hwinfo data for DIMM 2… Had them for about 3 weeks ;(


Yep, its the g.skill (samsung) who are really bad. Something is clearly wrong with them.

Asus had a bad batch of the hero z690, they took responsibility and people who was effected got new motherboards. Then the matter was over. I would feel safe to buy a asus motherboard.

Now what does g.skill do? Absolutly nothing, instead they discontinue the crap ddr5 and users who bought the 6000mhz g.skill (Samsung) ddr5 can sit there with thier bad ddr5 who in many cases wount even run xmp.


If I had these ddr5's i would return them asap.
They are clearly faulty. And yes ive seen all the "but I can run them at 6000/6200/6400/6600/6800mhz in memtest5".

It means nothing at all when the memory is unusable in games.


----------



## MC_SULY_514

roooo said:


> That's interesting, because I have been running the former since mid-december at 6000C32 without issues.


plz read thread..for ppl having issues.
good4yu



roooo said:


> Yeah I had read that, too. Wonder if I should try to get it exchanged/returned before they crap out on me...


might as well, what do you have to loose. newer revision always, especially with new gen. always getting better.



fortecosi said:


> You are sick dude, but the truth is, we have a clown here, which is unable to tune his memory and trying to say it´s Asus problem, while it´s not. You really don´t need to be an engineer to tune DDR5. And no worries, I understand you are salty because of your frustration. But sure, go buy your unify-x so you can go trolling to msi forum later. With your behavior you don´t deserve anything better.


dude your an engineer who uses xmp avec vddq. i can't compete with yu m808. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

why pay premium price for mobo or memory that can't run a simple xmp button lel



Syhndel said:


> Yep, its the g.skill (samsung) who are really bad. Something is clearly wrong with them.
> 
> Asus had a bad batch of the hero z690, they took responsibility and people who was effected got new motherboards. Then the matter was over. I would feel safe to buy a asus motherboard.
> 
> Now what does g.skill do? Absolutly nothing, instead they discontinue the crap ddr5 and users who bought the 6000mhz g.skill (Samsung) ddr5 can sit there with thier bad ddr5 who in many cases wount even run xmp.
> If I had these ddr5's i would return them asap.
> They are clearly faulty. And yes ive seen all the "but I can run them at 6000/6200/6400/6600/6800mhz in memtest5".
> It means nothing at all when the memory is unusable in games.


agreed.
asus has dope customer service. only reason why i avoid msi.
i know right, ppl are like oh its different ic chips blah, i dont care. 2months they release something super similar. 
i checked on g.skill website and no other memory sticks have that much similarity. should be allowed to swap regardless.


----------



## Sayenah

fortecosi said:


> You are sick dude, but the truth is, we have a clown here, which is unable to tune his memory and trying to say it´s Asus problem, while it´s not. You really don´t need to be an engineer to tune DDR5. And no worries, I understand you are salty because of your frustration. But sure, go buy your unify-x so you can go trolling to msi forum later. With your behavior you don´t deserve anything better.


Out of the box XMP is far more stable on the Unify X than Apex. This is an Asus problem, whether it is simply a worse design or software/hardware QA, can’t say. However the “problem” is contextual; most consumers will have expectations that XMP 3.0 READY means XMP profiles will work with one-click and a BIOS reboot. For such consumers a broken XMP profile is a “bug”. For you it might be a “feature” because you enjoy tinkering with memory. This is contextual, and about two entirely different demographics, let’s not be daft about it.

I should point out that if Asus likes money, they will take a bet on the “one click” everyday consumer “enthusiast” than someone with a tinkering fetish. 

In fact XMP issues are prevalent throughout Asus Z690 offerings. Just anecdotal observations.


----------



## roooo

To all Gskill 6400C32 users: I got mine yesterday and am experiencing a strange effect with HWInfo (latest version). Once in a while, the SPD Hub temperature of one of the sticks will spike to either 16.0 or 47.8C for less than a second. These values are "fixed" means the spikes will always occur to exactly one of them. Happens every 0.5 to 20min with both sticks but not at the same time. It does not appear to have any effect on stability. This is with Apex and latest 1101 BIOS, the DIMM temperature under load does not exceed 39C.

Any ideas? Bugged temp probes on the chips or HWInfo/Board issue?


----------



## 7empe

Sayenah said:


> Out of the box XMP is far more stable on the Unify X than Apex. This is an Asus problem, whether it is simply a worse design or software/hardware QA, can’t say. However the “problem” is contextual; most consumers will have expectations that XMP 3.0 READY means XMP profiles will work with one-click and a BIOS reboot. For such consumers a broken XMP profile is a “bug”. For you it might be a “feature” because you enjoy tinkering with memory. This is contextual, and about two entirely different demographics, let’s not be daft about it.
> 
> I should point out that if Asus likes money, they will take a bet on the “one click” everyday consumer “enthusiast” than someone with a tinkering fetish.
> 
> In fact XMP issues are prevalent throughout Asus Z690 offerings. Just anecdotal observations.


Point me the company that does not like money oO...

Did you compare UnifyX and Apex using the same CPU and the same memory sticks? Getting XMP stable depends on the IMC quality, and it may or may not run on the default voltages. I could run my kit F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK at XMP without any issues on Apex. Getting 6200 C32 T1 no problem. Going up to 6600 C36 T2 easily. Stable in every mem test and in every game I played (yes, including BFV and BF2042) while others could not boot with XMP at all.

Also board to board can differ, not a single one is identical in terms of electrical characteristics. BIOS version matters to. It's an early stage of the DDR5 and we are early adopters...

As for G.SKILL DDR5 I have, the batch or even whole product is broken. From what I can tell is that SPD info got completely broken. Funny thing is that I have no idea how could that happen - SPD write was disabled all the time... Maybe something more is behind the issue. Maybe this is simply a glitch of OC Tools that sometimes give me possibility to read SPD from that invisible stick. Maybe it's just the data from the air...

I believe G.SKILL is aware of that issue. They responded to me that RMA queue is empty and I am free to go with RMA... I'm running single stick right now, have no replacement in place yet. Does anyone know if I can RMA the sticks after having them water-cooled? If I put the original heat-spreader back on, will they accept my RMA? I hope that the fact that they know about some issues with the product itself will help me in the return process. This is at least what I could expect from the superb customer service.


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> To all Gskill 6400C32 users: I got mine yesterday and am experiencing a strange effect with HWInfo (latest version). Once in a while, the SPD Hub temperature of one of the sticks will spike to either 16.0 or 47.8C. These values are "fixed" means the spikes will always occur to exactly one of them. Happens every 0.5 to 20min with both sticks but not at the same time. It does not appear to have any effect on stability. This is with Apex and latest 1101 BIOS, the DIMM temperature under load does not exceed 39C.
> 
> Any ideas? Bugged temp probes on the chips or HWInfo/Board issue?


Had the same issue. Do you have some concurrent software accessing the info through the SMBus? This may be the glitch.
I would be more worried if DIMM info for one of the sticks would disappear and reappear in HWINFO. This was happening to me before stick disappeared forever.


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> To all Gskill 6400C32 users: I got mine yesterday and am experiencing a strange effect with HWInfo (latest version). Once in a while, the SPD Hub temperature of one of the sticks will spike to either 16.0 or 47.8C. These values are "fixed" means the spikes will always occur to exactly one of them. Happens every 0.5 to 20min with both sticks but not at the same time. It does not appear to have any effect on stability. This is with Apex and latest 1101 BIOS, the DIMM temperature under load does not exceed 39C.
> 
> Any ideas? Bugged temp probes on the chips or HWInfo/Board issue?


I get that even on my 5600C36 sticks running 6000C321T. No effect on stability everything runs perfectly. But I only had the 16.0 degree 'spike'. Max temps are pretty much the same for both sticks at 48 degrees under TM5.

My Kingston 6000C40 kit had a 57 degree 'spike' as well. Don't know if it's something that hwinfo does or if it's a SPD Hub catching a flu in the moment thing.


----------



## 7empe

Guys, anyone knows if that cheap Kingston stick: KVR48U40BS8-16 is Hynix still?
According to Intel QVL for ADL, this should be Hynix:


Kingston*KVR48U40BS8-16UDIMM n-ECC16 GB4800AOSK hynix*HS5CG48MEBDX01416 Gb2127M1Rx8Renesas*BO


----------



## asdkj1740

Syhndel said:


> , instead they discontinue the crap ddr5 and users who bought the 6000mhz g.skill (Samsung) ddr5 can sit there with thier bad ddr5 who in many cases wount even run xmp.
> 
> 
> If I had these ddr5's i would return them asap.
> They are clearly faulty. And yes ive seen all the "but I can run them at 6000/6200/6400/6600/6800mhz in memtest5".
> 
> It means nothing at all when the memory is unusable in games.


it is not easy to "return" it and ask for refund or new replacement of 6000j.
my kit is insane, i can pass tm5, then i open tm5 again, errors pop up, without any reboot and spd temp is low.


----------



## Sayenah

7empe said:


> Point me the company that does not like money oO...
> 
> Did you compare UnifyX and Apex using the same CPU and the same memory sticks? Getting XMP stable depends on the IMC quality, and it may or may not run on the default voltages. I could run my kit F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK at XMP without any issues on Apex. Getting 6200 C32 T1 no problem. Going up to 6600 C36 T2 easily. Stable in every mem test and in every game I played (yes, including BFV and BF2042) while others could not boot with XMP at all.
> 
> Also board to board can differ, not a single one is identical in terms of electrical characteristics. BIOS version matters to. It's an early stage of the DDR5 and we are early adopters...
> 
> As for G.SKILL DDR5 I have, the batch or even whole product is broken. From what I can tell is that SPD info got completely broken. Funny thing is that I have no idea how could that happen - SPD write was disabled all the time... Maybe something more is behind the issue. Maybe this is simply a glitch of OC Tools that sometimes give me possibility to read SPD from that invisible stick. Maybe it's just the data from the air...
> 
> I believe G.SKILL is aware of that issue. They responded to me that RMA queue is empty and I am free to go with RMA... I'm running single stick right now, have no replacement in place yet. Does anyone know if I can RMA the sticks after having them water-cooled? If I put the original heat-spreader back on, will they accept my RMA? I hope that the fact that they know about some issues with the product itself will help me in the return process. This is at least what I could expect from the superb customer service.


Hey let’s talk about G.Skill first as I can relate something quiet similar: my favorite salesperson at the local MicroCenter was complaining about the exact same thing. He described how one of his sticks just “disappeared”, and like yourself he had his water cooled. He was trying to dissuade me from purchasing the 6000C36 Samsung G.skill sticks, which he had (this conversation is about a couple of months old so right when the 6000C36 . So, I don’t think you are alone, and this is indeed faulty RAM. He did say he sent his back as an RMA and “was waiting on a replacement”. 

Again, I am running on memory but a stick disappearing is something I clearly remember. 

As for my test with Unify X, yes, it was the same CPU, PSU, and cooler. Tried two Asus boards and then UnifyX; same memory sticks as well, a 6400C40 T-Force and a G.Skill 6000


----------



## roooo

7empe said:


> Had the same issue. Do you have some concurrent software accessing the info through the SMBus? This may be the glitch.
> I would be more worried if DIMM info for one of the sticks would disappear and reappear in HWINFO. This was happening to me before stick disappeared forever.


Thanks, no other software running, but others appear to see this effect, too.


satinghostrider said:


> I get that even on my 5600C36 sticks running 6000C321T. No effect on stability everything runs perfectly. But I only had the 16.0 degree 'spike'. Max temps are pretty much the same for both sticks at 48 degrees under TM5.
> My Kingston 6000C40 kit had a 57 degree 'spike' as well. Don't know if it's something that hwinfo does or if it's a SPD Hub catching a flu in the moment thing.


Ok, then the 47.8C spike may be hidden. Anyway - thanks for the feedback, seems to be a common issue and luckily a non-critical one.


----------



## Codiee1337

Hello guys. I'm currently in the front row to buy a new PC. I'm very interested in buying Z690.
Currently my MOBO choice is MSI Z690 Tomahawk, processor is (for now) an I5 12600k

I'm looking at this ram from Kingston: https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF560C40BBK2-32.pdf
Is this Hynix or Samsung?

Does anyone have experience with overclocking this Kingston RAM?
(Sadly I can't buy a G.SKILL set, because in Hungary (where I live) the prices for a G.SKILL is almost double in comparison with Kingston Fury..)

Thank you for your answers.


----------



## 7empe

My understanding is that every PMIC can be overvolted if BIOS supports high dram voltage option. So, it is not a "special" OC PMIC itself that has to be installed on the stick. Right?


----------



## centvalny

7empe said:


> My understanding is that every PMIC can be overvolted if BIOS supports high dram voltage option. So, it is not a "special" OC PMIC itself that has to be installed on the stick. Right?


Not all secured pmic can be unlocked, for now only secured renassas partially unlocked with bios.

Here is Richtek pmics pics, Team 6400 use Richtek unsecured pmic to deliver >1.435V


----------



## centvalny

1.435V Vdd/Vddq plenty to overclock good hynix kit probly up to 6800 and possibly more.


----------



## 7empe

centvalny said:


> 1.435V Vdd/Vddq plenty to overclock good hynix kit probly up to 6800 and possibly more.


If I am lucky enough, this one https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR48U40BS8-16.pdf may be Hynix... or Micron :/


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> 1.435V Vdd/Vddq plenty to overclock good hynix kit probly up to 6800 and possibly more.


On ln2?


centvalny said:


> 1.435V Vdd/Vddq plenty to overclock good hynix kit probly up to 6800 and possibly more.


My kingston locked 4800 hynix is doing ~6200c28 1t on air. 
Som on the same kit does about 6400c28 or c30 on water.


----------



## Simkin

centvalny said:


> Not all secured pmic can be unlocked, for now only secured renassas partially unlocked with bios.
> 
> Here is Richtek pmics pics, Team 6400 use Richtek unsecured pmic to deliver >1.435V
> View attachment 2546727


I assume the Team 6200 is using the same?


----------



## Carillo

7empe said:


> Guys, anyone knows if that cheap Kingston stick: KVR48U40BS8-16 is Hynix still?
> According to Intel QVL for ADL, this should be Hynix:
> 
> 
> Kingston*KVR48U40BS8-16UDIMM n-ECC16 GB4800AOSK hynix*HS5CG48MEBDX01416 Gb2127M1Rx8Renesas*BO


I can confirm that Kingston now have started using micron IC for those dimms. I've tested the early batch with 142A Hynix, and they works well if you don't mind totally locked pmic. ( even on Apex). If you slap on some water-blocks, 6400 c30 1T is no problem if your IMC and board is up for the task


----------



## 7empe

Carillo said:


> I can confirm that Kingston now have started using micron IC for those dimms. I've tested the early batch with 142A Hynix, and they works well if you don't mind totally locked pmic. ( even on Apex). If you slap on some water-blocks, 6400 c30 1T is no problem if your IMC and board is up for the task


Tomorrow I will got that stick and verify the IC vendor. I counted on an unlock PMIC. I need a fast replacement for my dead stick from gskill and it will be water-cooled. So... if this Kingston can pair with my gskill at 6200C30T1 then I will be happy for now. I wonder how the "sync PMIC" function will work in that mixed-stick situation.


----------



## Deceased

Was using the first batch of g skill sticks previously on my Asus z690i and it’s a horrible experience. Can’t boot properly on new bios even on untouched settings (no xmp). Crashes on mem tests with many errors and causing random shut downs.

Now I swapped to my newly arrived Corsair 6200 sticks and so far all the issues are gone. No regrets spending a lot on the Corsair sticks.


----------



## 7empe

Deceased said:


> Was using the first batch of g skill sticks previously on my Asus z690i and it’s a horrible experience. Can’t boot properly on new bios even on untouched settings (no xmp). Crashes on mem tests with many errors and causing random shut downs.
> 
> Now I swapped to my newly arrived Corsair 6200 sticks and so far all the issues are gone. No regrets spending a lot on the Corsair sticks.


I had no issues with my kit at Apex at all. XMP worked immediatelly. Quite good overclocking potential (up to 6800C36 at 1.52V). I suspect SPD Hub, or PMIC is faulty on that series, so they can die randomly.


----------



## Bilco

Nizzen said:


> On ln2?
> 
> My kingston locked 4800 hynix is doing ~6200c28 1t on air.
> Som on the same kit does about 6400c28 or c30 on water.


Would you mind posting your voltages and timings? Say this stable for me, what might you suggest I relax or loosen? Thank you much!


----------



## jimpc

Which would you guys get if money was no object?

Corsair 6200
Kingston 6000
G.Skill 6400
Teamgroup 6400

I won't be watercooling. So looking for opinion on best heat spreader, best thermal pad application, and best PMIC. Assuming they're all still using Hynix when delivered. Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

jimpc said:


> Which would you guys get if money was no object?
> 
> Corsair 6200
> Kingston 6000
> G.Skill 6400
> Teamgroup 6400
> 
> I won't be watercooling. So looking for opinion on best heat spreader, best thermal pad application, and best PMIC. Assuming they're all still using Hynix when delivered. Thanks


G.skill 6400c32 is my best kit yet. Tested Dell hynix, Beast 6000 hynix, kingston 4800 hynix. Several samsung G.skill.


----------



## jimpc

Nizzen said:


> G.skill 6400c32 is my best kit yet. Tested Dell hynix, Beast 6000 hynix, kingston 4800 hynix. Several samsung G.skill.


What were you able to get it to on air?


----------



## db000

Where do I find the best x2 waterblock for BARTX Copper heatsinks. Running Z690 Apex.
Currently have the Corsair Dominators 5600 CL36 kit. 
I've ordered G.Skill 6400 CL32 kit aswell as the BARTX heatsinks.

Heatsinks:








Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com


----------



## Deceased

7empe said:


> I had no issues with my kit at Apex at all. XMP worked immediatelly. Quite good overclocking potential (up to 6800C36 at 1.52V). I suspect SPD Hub, or PMIC is faulty on that series, so they can die randomly.


Are you referring to the g skill or Corsair kit? I just realised that the temps are also very different. My first batch g skill kit is always hovering around 50c at Low/normal load while my Corsair dominator kit is hovering at 37-39c on the similar load.

I guess it sucks to be an early adopter wasting $ getting defective first gen ddr5 ram :/


----------



## lordkahless

For the Apex board is the official 1101 bios recommended over the beta 0086 bios in regards to getting the Gskill 6400cl32 to run at XMP?


----------



## roooo

I had issues with 0086 and got the kit working with XMP2 and XMP1 on 1101 BIOS by only increasing MC from 1.10 to 1.20V. Probably something in between would be sufficient, too, but I couldn't be bothered testing. Depending one your specific hardware if you have SA on auto, you may need to decrease it somewhat (to 0.95 or 1.10V).


----------



## 7empe

Deceased said:


> Are you referring to the g skill or Corsair kit? I just realised that the temps are also very different. My first batch g skill kit is always hovering around 50c at Low/normal load while my Corsair dominator kit is hovering at 37-39c on the similar load.
> 
> I guess it sucks to be an early adopter wasting $ getting defective first gen ddr5 ram :/


I was talking about g.skill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK. They were water-cooled so I did not see more than 35C.


----------



## lordkahless

roooo said:


> I had issues with 0086 and got the kit working with XMP2 and XMP1 on 1101 BIOS by only increasing MC from 1.10 to 1.20V. Probably something in between would be sufficient, too, but I couldn't be bothered testing. Depending one your specific hardware if you have SA on auto, you may need to decrease it somewhat (to 0.95 or 1.10V).


I updated to 1101. My MC on auto is already at 1.243v. So I didn't touch that. I tried SA at 1.10v, that got me into windows but moments after booting it was blue screen. Then I bumped SA back down to .95v. That so far has had no issue. I have been doing tasks in Windows but I haven't had a chance to test or stress anything. Still farther then I ever got before.


----------



## akgis

lordkahless said:


> I updated to 1101. My MC on auto is already at 1.243v. So I didn't touch that. I tried SA at 1.10v, that got me into windows but moments after booting it was blue screen. Then I bumped SA back down to .95v. That so far has had no issue. I have been doing tasks in Windows but I haven't had a chance to test or stress anything. Still farther then I ever got before.


Its been my first rodeo at DDR OC and its a bit unintuitive but lower SA on atlest Samsung Kits bring more stability Iam having same experience so far


----------



## 7empe

lordkahless said:


> I updated to 1101. My MC on auto is already at 1.243v. So I didn't touch that. I tried SA at 1.10v, that got me into windows but moments after booting it was blue screen. Then I bumped SA back down to .95v. That so far has had no issue. I have been doing tasks in Windows but I haven't had a chance to test or stress anything. Still farther then I ever got before.


You can run SA in offset mode (and offset value on Auto). This won't be the Asus frequency-based voltage expectation (like it is on Auto), but CPU-based value. It will be probably around 0.95V.


----------



## lordkahless

7empe said:


> You can run SA in offset mode (and offset value on Auto). This won't be the Asus frequency-based voltage expectation (like it is on Auto), but CPU-based value. It will be probably around 0.95V.


What should I enter in as an offset?
If I wanted to attempt to run this at 1T would I likely have to increase the voltage past 1.4 on the modules?


----------



## 7empe

lordkahless said:


> What should I enter in as an offset?
> If I wanted to attempt to run this at 1T would I likely have to increase the voltage past 1.4 on the modules?


Just use auto offset. Manual higher SA will bring only instabilities.


----------



## Nizzen

jimpc said:


> What were you able to get it to on air?


This is as we speak:

Testing memory "gaming" profile with low SA trick from @cstkl1
L2voltage = 1.25v
SA offset= 0,065 ( if I remember correct  )


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> This is as we speak:
> 
> Testing memory "gaming" profile with low SA trick from @cstkl1
> L2voltage = 1.25v
> SA offset= 0,065 ( if I remember correct  )
> 
> View attachment 2546766
> 
> View attachment 2546767


Hehe, so we're doing pretty much the same tweaking in parallel... 
Do you get any relevant gains from 1T?


----------



## bl4ckdot

I realized I never posted a screen with the all the informations. This is my current daily OC.
1.25 VDD2
1.2 SA
1.45 CPU VDDQ
1.45 RAM


----------



## Nizzen

bl4ckdot said:


> I realized I never posted a screen with the all the informations. This is my current daily OC.
> 1.25 VDD2
> 1.2 SA
> 1.45 CPU VDDQ
> 1.45 RAM
> 
> View attachment 2546768


Nice result, but barly over 50ns is a bit turn off LOL
I want your Optane, because I'm just using the old Optane 900p


----------



## bl4ckdot

Nizzen said:


> Nice result, but barly over 50ns is a bit turn off LOL
> I want your Optane, because I'm just using the old Optane 900p


I guess I could try getting 49.x ns on an other screenshot lmao


----------



## 7empe

Does anyone has a knowledge on the temp difference between using a thermalpads on the chips vs the paste for the watercooling?


----------



## Nizzen

bl4ckdot said:


> I guess I could try getting 49.x ns on an other screenshot lmao


Like this 
With stock cache... Sub 50ns is good for the brain 








Faster cpu and cache:


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Does anyone has a knowledge on the temp difference between using a thermalpads on the chips vs the paste for the watercooling?


With the Supercool computer DDR5 waterblock, there is like 2c delta with 1mm pads. No need to go full paste


----------



## bern43

For my G.Skill 6000C36 kit I'm not able to view any info on Thaiphoon Burner. Just comes up as undefined. Tried switching the SPD write bios setting. No change. Ram is also not showing up in Aura Sync. Is there something I'm missing?


----------



## roooo

bern43 said:


> For my G.Skill 6000C36 kit I'm not able to view any info on Thaiphoon Burner. Just comes up as undefined. Tried switching the SPD write bios setting. No change. Ram is also not showing up in Aura Sync. Is there something I'm missing?


There are some people here who reported their GSkill 6000C36 kits failing, you may want to read through the last 2..3 pages here to check if this could be related to you issues...


----------



## 7empe

bern43 said:


> For my G.Skill 6000C36 kit I'm not able to view any info on Thaiphoon Burner. Just comes up as undefined. Tried switching the SPD write bios setting. No change. Ram is also not showing up in Aura Sync. Is there something I'm missing?











TridentZ DDR5 6000 Module Suddenly Not Working...


Anyone else have this issue or know how I might fix it? I installed the 32 GB Trident Z5 6000 CL36-36-36-76 kit and it worked for about 1 week. Today one of the sticks stopped working and is no longer recognized by my computer (neither CPUZ or System Information). I changed the DIMM slot it...




www.overclock.net




I suppose the SPD Hub that's failing on this exact product line.


----------



## Nizzen

Nizzen said:


> Like this
> With stock cache... Sub 50ns is good for the brain
> View attachment 2546771
> 
> Faster cpu and cache:
> View attachment 2546775


Thank you @Carillo for the PRO tip about training and ninja timings 🤩


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> With the Supercool computer DDR5 waterblock, there is like 2c delta with 1mm pads. No need to go full paste


If you are using g.skill RGB sticks you need to use 1mm pads to get enough clearance for the rgb diodes.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Thank you @Carillo for the PRO tip about training and ninja timings 🤩


If it's not too-PRO-to-share - would you mind doing so?


----------



## centvalny

Samsung @ 1.65Vdd/dq


----------



## Alexshunter

Anybody overclocked 2x8GB Sk Hynix modules in this forum yet? What would be the best overclock for it?


----------



## opt33

Samsung 7000c32 not much better latency than 6400c321T,...and still waiting on hynix from taiwan, should have gotten gskill 6400c32 would have been here by now.


----------



## bern43

Reinstalled Armoury Crate and now the RGB is recognized on my G.Skill 6000C36 kit. Aura Sync wouldn't work. I'm not a huge fan of Armoury Crate. Is there anything else that could work to control the RGB on these?


----------



## Nizzen

Testing 7000c32 too. Looks like fun


----------



## Feklar

I don't use armory crate and never will. You can use Aura Lighting Control. Just install G.Skill rgb software, then disable it from starting it with windows. It will not run in the background but will allow Aura to recognize and control the new ddr5. You can also try openrgb as I heard this works as well.


----------



## bscool

Sayenah said:


> Hey let’s talk about G.Skill first as I can relate something quiet similar: *my favorite salesperson at the local MicroCenter was complaining about the exact same thing. He described how one of his sticks just “disappeared”, and like yourself he had his water cooled*. He was trying to dissuade me from purchasing the 6000C36 Samsung G.skill sticks, which he had (this conversation is about a couple of months old so right when the 6000C36 . So, I don’t think you are alone, and this is indeed faulty RAM. He did say he sent his back as an RMA and “was waiting on a replacement”.
> 
> Again, I am running on memory but a stick disappearing is something I clearly remember.
> 
> As for my test with Unify X, yes, it was the same CPU, PSU, and cooler. Tried two Asus boards and then UnifyX; same memory sticks as well, a 6400C40 T-Force and a G.Skill 6000


So he removed the heat spread to water cool his memory and Gskill is still RMAing it?

I thought removing the heat spreader voids warranty as it is modified.









Warranty Policy - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


G.SKILL provides a limited warranty to the original purchaser only that any genuine G.SKILL hardware product purchased from an authorized G.SKILL reseller will be free from defects in material and workmanship, and will operate, as specified by its...




www.gskill.com





*Warranty Exclusions*



Removal or reassembly of heatspreader;


----------



## bern43

Feklar said:


> I don't use armory crate and never will. You can use Aura Lighting Control. Just install G.Skill rgb software, then disable it from starting it with windows. It will not run in the background but will allow Aura to recognize and control the dream less on the new ddr5. You can also try openrgb as I heard this works as well.


This worked. Able to use Aura sync as long as the G.Skill rgb software was installed (but not running at startup). Thanks!


----------



## borant

Nizzen said:


> Testing 7000c32 too. Looks like fun
> View attachment 2546795
> 
> View attachment 2546797


Could you keep mentioning stick model in your subsequent reports?


----------



## Sayenah

bscool said:


> So he removed the heat spread to water cool his memory and Gskill is still RMAing it?
> 
> I thought removing the heat spreader voids warranty as it is modified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warranty Policy - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> G.SKILL provides a limited warranty to the original purchaser only that any genuine G.SKILL hardware product purchased from an authorized G.SKILL reseller will be free from defects in material and workmanship, and will operate, as specified by its...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Warranty Exclusions*
> 
> 
> 
> Removal or reassembly of heatspreader;


I am not sure if his RMA actually succeeded. Chances are that he is betting they don’t notice haha!


----------



## bl4ckdot

More benchmarks added, and a sub 50ns aida.
I've noticed that Turbo ratio is kinda broken .. x53 scores 20.400 (or even 20.3) seconds on ycruncher 1B reliably while using turbo ratio (x2 55 x4 54 x8 53) scores 20.650. Same thing on gb3, I lose around 1k on multi with turbo ratio


----------



## ViTosS

bl4ckdot said:


> More benchmarks added, and a sub 50ns aida.
> I've noticed that Turbo ratio is kinda broken .. x53 scores 20.400 (or even 20.3) seconds on ycruncher 1B reliably while using turbo ratio (x2 55 x4 54 x8 53) scores 20.650. Same thing on gb3, I lose around 1k on multi with turbo ratio
> View attachment 2546842


So you have an 6900XT, would you mind posting SOTTR 1080p lowest benchmark result? I'm asking that because a friend of mine did 372fps using 5950x and 6900XT, but we never saw yet a extremely DDR5 tuned and 12900k system with that GPU, only 3090 and it's known that they score lower than 6900XT. Maybe 400fps with 12900k and 6900XT?


----------



## MC_SULY_514

i was actually considering not doing the RMA of how smooth it was running after the bios update 1101 on apex 
but im going to overnight it to g.skill monday lel
*G.SkiLL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL36 @ 1.30v 36-36-36-76 (F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK)
gonna use the corsair when im done my work contract.

have the opportunity to get the new g.skill 6400cl32, but i think ill pass on g.skill for now haha


----------



## bscool

bl4ckdot said:


> More benchmarks added, and a sub 50ns aida.
> I've noticed that Turbo ratio is kinda broken .. x53 scores 20.400 (or even 20.3) seconds on ycruncher 1B reliably while using turbo ratio (x2 55 x4 54 x8 53) scores 20.650. Same thing on gb3, I lose around 1k on multi with turbo ratio
> View attachment 2546842


Where do you get the Intel MLC GUI? My googlefu is not good as I cannot find it. Can you share it? Or anyone else?


----------



## YaqY

bscool said:


> Where do you get the Intel MLC GUI? My googlefu is not good as I cannot find it. Can you share it? Or anyone else?


Here is the link. Release IMLCGui v1.0.1 · FarisR99/IMLCGui


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Testing 7000c32 too. Looks like fun
> View attachment 2546795
> 
> View attachment 2546797


Nice! Is this the Gskill 6400C32? What voltages are you pumping?


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> Nice! Is this the Gskill 6400C32? What voltages are you pumping?


6400c32 g.skill. In this picture it's 1.55vdd


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> 6400c32 g.skill. In this picture it's 1.55vdd


Ooops, thanks - missed that


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

I'm undecided between corsair dominator 6200 c36 and gskill 6400 c32, I'm not going to put the ram under liquid.
Whit the same oc do you think there are probabilities that the corsair heatsinks help to keep temperatures a little lower than gskill?

both yhnix, I'm not worried about performance, I assume both kits come very close.
I don't really like corsairs on an aesthetic level, but if there are hopes that dissipate a little better I would go on these


----------



## Nizzen

IIISLIDEIII said:


> I'm undecided between corsair dominator 6200 c36 and gskill 6400 c32, I'm not going to put the ram under liquid.
> Whit the same oc do you think there are probabilities that the corsair heatsinks help to keep temperatures a little lower than gskill?
> 
> both yhnix, I'm not worried about performance, I assume both kits come very close.
> I don't really like corsairs on an aesthetic level, but if there are hopes that dissipate a little better I would go on these


My 6400c32 g.skill is about 45c max on air with ram fan. 
Looks like g.skill 6400c32 has the best bin too.


----------



## db000

Nizzen said:


> My 6400c32 g.skill is about 45c max on air with ram fan.
> Looks like g.skill 6400c32 has the best bin too.


Awesome. I'm looking forward to getting mine like next week!


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

Nizzen said:


> My 6400c32 g.skill is about 45c max on air with ram fan.
> Looks like g.skill 6400c32 has the best bin too.


thank you.
45 degrees sounds great for ddr5, what oc and what voltages do you use to get that temperature?


----------



## Nizzen

IIISLIDEIII said:


> thank you.
> 45 degrees sounds great for ddr5, what oc and what voltages do you use to get that temperature?


Right now 6400c30 1t is rock stable. Testing 7000c32 atm. 

Maybe I settle for 6800 2t or 64001t. 66001t require alot of juice


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Right now 6400c30 1t is rock stable. Testing 7000c32 atm.
> 
> Maybe I settle for 6800 2t or 64001t. 66001t require alot of juice


What voltages did you use for 6400c30 1t on the apex? I just got my kit and the rams runs noticeably cooler than my Samsung kit. Of course I got the non-RGB version but I think the Hynix runs cooler with similar voltages.

Thanks Nizzen.


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> What voltages did you use for 6400c30 1t on the apex? I just got my kit and the rams runs noticeably cooler than my Samsung kit. Of course I got the non-RGB version but I think the Hynix runs cooler with similar voltages.
> 
> Thanks Nizzen.


1.47vdd/vddq. Not tested lower, but Carillo did 1.42-1.44v I think on water 64001t. 
Under 1.5v is nothing 😁


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> 1.47vdd/vddq. Not tested lower, but Carillo did 1.42-1.44v I think on water.
> Under 1.5v is nothing 😁


Awesome. Need to figure out the timings. I know this is a good bin cause I could get this ram stable on my apex using the preloaded profile. Couldn't do it with my earlier Kingston Kit. Great voltages. 😎


----------



## bl4ckdot

ViTosS said:


> So you have an 6900XT, would you mind posting SOTTR 1080p lowest benchmark result? I'm asking that because a friend of mine did 372fps using 5950x and 6900XT, but we never saw yet a extremely DDR5 tuned and 12900k system with that GPU, only 3090 and it's known that they score lower than 6900XT. Maybe 400fps with 12900k and 6900XT?












375 on 1080p very low, without any tweaks. I'm very doubtful about a 5950x scoring higher than 350 fps on 1080p ...


----------



## AYTOKPATOP

Hello guys, I recently got my 12700KF with A Z690 Aorus Pro and a kit of 32GB Kingston SK Hynix 6000Mhz CL40. Do you suggest lowering CAS or increase Frequency? I don't want to push the voltage (a lot)
Thank you


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> 1.47vdd/vddq. Not tested lower, but Carillo did 1.42-1.44v I think on water 64001t.
> Under 1.5v is nothing 😁


Hrhr...people here should keep in mind that both of you do have that latitude advantage in terms of OC.... ;-)


----------



## Simkin

Did a quick testmem5 run on my Team Group DDR5 6200Mhz (Hynix)
3 Cycles 1usmus_v3, (5-6min) Stock 4800Mhz. (ran stock to make it more even and easier to compare)
Compared to my G.Skill 6000Mhz CL36, which at stock reached close to 60c, the Team Group top out on 46.5c - thats a big difference in temp.
Waiting for my ram cooler, but have a Noctua Chromax NF-A12x15 in my sidedoor 30cm away blowing towards the ramstick (had the fan at 45% during the tests)

No doubt PMIC thermalpads makes a difference.


----------



## sugi0lover

my oc result with the new Gskil 6400 CL32 kit.

I oced with all e cores off for the better gaming performance (but don't generalize)
bclk oc = a little better AIDA64 result than it actually is

○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.44Ghz , Cache 5.04Ghz, E cores off)
○ Ram : G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 TRIDENT Z5
○ Ram OC : 6850Mhz-28-39-39-28-305-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0086)
○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : 
VDD/VDDQ TX 1.600v / VDDQ 1.540v / MC 1.350v / SA 1.350v 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. 

Since this is the new ram kit, here is the Z690 Apex cmo file for the setting above.
I don't use wifi, bluetooth, audio, RGB, so please turn them on if needed.





Z690Apex_6850C28_HTOFF.CMO







drive.google.com





[Edit : I tried to upload high quality capture shot, but it doesn't work somehow.
The below is the high resolution]








DDR5 Stable OC : 6850Mhz CL28 2T (12900K + New Gskill 6400 CL32 Ram Kit)


New item added to shared album




photos.google.com


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> Did a quick testmem5 run on my Team Group DDR5 6200Mhz (Hynix)
> 3 Cycles 1usmus_v3, (5-6min) Stock 4800Mhz. (ran stock to make it more even and easier to compare)
> Compared to my G.Skill 6000Mhz CL36, which at stock reached close to 60c, the Team Group top out on 46.5c - thats a big difference in temp.
> Waiting for my ram cooler, but have a Noctua Chromax NF-A12x15 in my sidedoor 30cm away blowing towards the ramstick (had the fan at 45% during the tests)
> 
> No doubt PMIC thermalpads makes a difference.


Samsung vs hynix. Hynix runs way cooler.


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Samsung vs hynix. Hynix runs way cooler.


Oddly so and both my Hynix and Samsung are Gskill without PMIC. One with and one without RGB. But temps are noticeably more cooler on Hynix despite no-RGBs which I hardly think would be a majority in the heat factor. Samsung was on ANPEC PMIC while the Hynix is on Richtek PMIC.


----------



## affxct

I'm getting pretty frustrated. Every week or so a new batch of stable profiles I have, begin to CLOCK_WATCHDOG in IBT V2 because SA requirements seem to fluctuate. I know it isn't degradation because I can pass the same stress tests as the first week I owned the chip with JEDEC RAM settings and 0.9 SA/1.1 VDD2. That and I don't daily above 1.35V. I've tried to test my CPU's clock limits at up to 1.48V (1.37-ish under load) with super droopy LLC for a couple of hours, but I always BSOD'd within seconds because my cooling setup isn't sufficient for 1.35-1.37 load volts (socket sense). Honestly don't know by this point. I want to ditch Alder Lake entirely but I stand to lose a lot of money because no one seems to be buying anything on the used market where I live at the moment; pretty crap situation. I feel like if my SP was at least 87 or something, I wouldn't have such a cursed CPU.


----------



## TresNugget

Can someone give me some pointers on getting my gskill 6400 cl32 kit stable at xmp with 12900k and z690 apex?

I've tried SA voltages between .94v and 1v using offset. Plus auto which is around 1.23-1.25v
I've tried MC voltages between 1.25v and 1.3v.
Oddly I've gotten roughly 8 hours stable in hci memtest and karhu ram test with MC voltage set to Auto on XMP1, which seems to be 1.25v set 1.247 get, but if I manually set to 1.25v it fails within a few minutes.
Think I should try increasing vdd/vddq?
Go above 1.3v with MC voltage?


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

TresNugget said:


> Can someone give me some pointers on getting my gskill 6400 cl32 kit stable at xmp with 12900k and z690 apex?
> 
> I've tried SA voltages between .94v and 1v using offset. Plus auto which is around 1.23-1.25v
> I've tried MC voltages between 1.25v and 1.3v.
> Oddly I've gotten roughly 8 hours stable in hci memtest and karhu ram test with MC voltage set to Auto on XMP1, which seems to be 1.25v set 1.247 get, but if I manually set to 1.25v it fails within a few minutes.
> Think I should try increasing vdd/vddq?
> Go above 1.3v with MC voltage?


i haven't received the ddr5 yet but i think the guys here to help you out will need to know to get started:

oc cpu?
max temp cpu? 
sp cpu?
ram max temp under karhu?


----------



## Nizzen

TresNugget said:


> Can someone give me some pointers on getting my gskill 6400 cl32 kit stable at xmp with 12900k and z690 apex?
> 
> I've tried SA voltages between .94v and 1v using offset. Plus auto which is around 1.23-1.25v
> I've tried MC voltages between 1.25v and 1.3v.
> Oddly I've gotten roughly 8 hours stable in hci memtest and karhu ram test with MC voltage set to Auto on XMP1, which seems to be 1.25v set 1.247 get, but if I manually set to 1.25v it fails within a few minutes.
> Think I should try increasing vdd/vddq?
> Go above 1.3v with MC voltage?


0086 bios
Stock first = hold clear cmos for 10 seconds
L2 voltage 1.25v
SA offset +0.060
VDD/vddqd 1.42v
MC=1,25v
Disable fastboot

Restart


----------



## gecko991

I need to grab a set of these.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

satinghostrider said:


> What voltages did you use for 6400c30 1t on the apex? I just got my kit and the rams runs noticeably cooler than my Samsung kit. Of course I got the non-RGB version but I think the Hynix runs cooler with similar voltages.
> 
> Thanks Nizzen.


why did you specify that "obviously" you got the non-rgb version, do you think there is a temperature difference between rgb and non-rgb?


----------



## Nizzen

IIISLIDEIII said:


> why did you specify that "obviously" you got the non-rgb version, do you think there is a temperature difference between rgb and non-rgb?


I have only rgb dimms. Haven't seen any 6200c32 non rgb here in Norway.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Quick 7000c30 test


----------



## Arni90

snakeeyes111 said:


> View attachment 2546934
> 
> 
> Quick 7000c30 test


Can you run y-cruncher at that frequency?


----------



## Nizzen

snakeeyes111 said:


> View attachment 2546934
> 
> 
> Quick 7000c30 test


Nice job! Do you mind post aida64 and timings? 
Nice way to compare scores


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> Can you run y-cruncher at that frequency?


There are one person here that posted 7000mhz memtest stable, and I think it going to be a while until next time


----------



## TresNugget

IIISLIDEIII said:


> i haven't received the ddr5 yet but i think the guys here to help you out will need to know to get started:
> 
> oc cpu?
> max temp cpu?
> sp cpu?
> ram max temp under karhu?


CPU isn't OCd yet. Wanted to get ram rock solid stable just so I know ram isn't the cause during stability testing.

At stock clocks I haven't seen temps over 60c (power limits removed) yet but I haven't done too much with it. I just got my ram kit and Ryujin ii aio on the same day a few days ago and just been fighting to get this stable.

SP is low 80s. P cores is low 90s and e cores high 70s. Can't remember the exact numbers and I'm not at home.

Ram temps haven't gone above 50c during karhu.




Nizzen said:


> 0086 bios
> Stock first = hold clear cmos for 10 seconds
> L2 voltage 1.25v
> SA offset +0.060
> VDD/vddqd 1.42v
> MC=1,25v
> Disable fastboot
> 
> Restart


Thanks! I'll give that a shot. I'm on 1101 bios now. I haven't touched l2 voltage yet. I'll try with 1102 and if that doesn't work I'll roll back the bios and give that a shot. Much appreciated.


----------



## sippo

Quick question: I have stable 66001t 30-38-38-30 - 1.45/1.45V SA 1.25, VDD 1.35
I moved to check options in BIOS, and I discovered that after I've enable C8 for CPU everything goes unstable, even on 2T.

Do you know what cause it? (MSI unify-x A22)


----------



## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> Samsung vs hynix. Hynix runs way cooler.


One more reason for G.Skill to add thermalpads i guess.

If Corsair and Team Group do pads, so should G.Skill. Not impressed by any means by G.Skill this time around.


----------



## roooo

Folks - when I'm stability testing with TM5/Anta777 or Karhu for half or even one hour without any errors, my machine suddenly BSODs - does that allow any clues about the possible issue? SPD hub temps are always well below 40C.


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> One more reason for G.Skill to add thermalpads i guess.
> 
> If Corsair and Team Group do pads, so should G.Skill. Not impressed by any means by G.Skill this time around.


I have G.skill 6000c36 and g.skill 6200c32. Samsung VS Hynix. Hynix runs cooler, and need lower "voltage" as a bonus. It runs cool enough for stability. If you want it cooler, go watercooling or dimm fan. Changing the thermalpads is an option too. Kingston 6000 hynix has thermalpad on pmic, but it doesn't do better than the G.skill Hynix. So is Kingston 6000 a better option, just because the thermalpad on the pmic?

T-force has bigger/higher heatsink. That's the main reason it may be a bit cooler.

I have the Kingston 6000 too, but not using it. Have better Hynix than that kit


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> Folks - when I'm stability testing with TM5/Anta777 or Karhu for half or even one hour without any errors, my machine suddenly BSODs - does that allow any clues about the possible issue? SPD hub temps are always well below 40C.


When I'm getting shutdown on high cpu oc, this options is on auto. Try max them out







like this


----------



## 7empe

Fast status report. ValueRam Kingston Fury KVR48U40BS8-16 are no longer Hynix. It’s a Micron. Does not scale with voltage at all. With Jedec timings all they can go is 5400-5600. Touching any subtimings = immediate instabilities. The PMIC is secured. The stick went back to the shop


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> When I'm getting shutdown on high cpu oc, this options is on auto. Try max them out
> View attachment 2546944
> like this


Thanks, I usually have that maxed out as well, but during mem testing I'm running a very mild or no CPU/Cache OC at all.


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> Thanks, I usually have that maxed out as well, but during mem testing I'm running a very mild or no CPU/Cache OC at all.


That's also possible due too low IMC voltage.


----------



## opt33

sippo said:


> Quick question: I have stable 66001t 30-38-38-30 - 1.45/1.45V SA 1.25, VDD 1.35
> I moved to check options in BIOS, and I discovered that after I've enable C8 for CPU everything goes unstable, even on 2T.
> 
> Do you know what cause it? (MSI unify-x A22)


looks like that setting is bugged, im on same board, same bios. I turned c states on and set C8 limit, booted up and networking connection isnt recognized among few other problems, rebooted same issue. Ran tm5 short time no errors, just that setting is bugged. You can post on msi forum if you want them to fix it, I prefer C states off as cores can rest when computer sleeps when Im not using it.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Anyone in Canada looking for these Hynix Gskill *F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK* - they are now available at canadacomputers.com


----------



## roooo

7empe said:


> That's also possible due too low IMC voltage.


Thanks, that was one of the reasons I suspected, too.


----------



## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> I have G.skill 6000c36 and g.skill 6200c32. Samsung VS Hynix. Hynix runs cooler, and need lower "voltage" as a bonus. It runs cool enough for stability. If you want it cooler, go watercooling or dimm fan. Changing the thermalpads is an option too. Kingston 6000 hynix has thermalpad on pmic, but it doesn't do better than the G.skill Hynix. So is Kingston 6000 a better option, just because the thermalpad on the pmic?
> 
> T-force has bigger/higher heatsink. That's the main reason it may be a bit cooler.
> 
> I have the Kingston 6000 too, but not using it. Have better Hynix than that kit


Seems like many people here struggle with the G.Skill 6000 CL36 kits, it might or might not have to do with temps, but i see no reason *what so ever* to buy the G.Skill Samsung kits, the 6400 Hynix kits with a ram fan im sure is great, but for the average buyer, stay away from the G.Skill and buy Corsair or Team Group... or Kingston or value Hynix for that matter.


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> Seems like many people here struggle with the G.Skill 6000 CL36 kits, it might or might not have to do with temps, but i see no reason *what so ever* to buy the G.Skill Samsung kits, the 6400 Hynix kits with a ram fan im sure is great, but for the average buyer, stay away from the G.Skill and buy Corsair or Team Group... or Kingston or value Hynix for that matter.


G.skill 6400c32 works great without ramfan, same as t-force and Corsair... Temperature isn't the issue on the first samsung g.skill kits, but compability with MB bioses. Most seams to me solved now. Still can't see why you are saying that staying away from g.skill, because of the first samsung kits. It's like saying; Stay away from Team extreme ddr4 4400mhz, because it didn't work on XMP with AMD 3800x 

It took AMD litterally "3000" AGESA bios updates to solve most memory issues on Ryzen 1 and 2....

Or what about: Stay away from Corsair, because they have a few DDR5 kits with Micron


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Fast status report. ValueRam Kingston Fury KVR48U40BS8-16 are no longer Hynix. It’s a Micron. Does not scale with voltage at all. With Jedec timings all they can go is 5400-5600. Touching any subtimings = immediate instabilities. The PMIC is secured. The stick went back to the shop


We repported the same almost 2 mont's ago, we bought some kits with the same kvr48u40bs8-16 number as our Hynix kits, and it turned out to be Micron. We sendt i back the same day LOL


----------



## roooo

TresNugget said:


> CPU isn't OCd yet. Wanted to get ram rock solid stable just so I know ram isn't the cause during stability testing.
> 
> At stock clocks I haven't seen temps over 60c (power limits removed) yet but I haven't done too much with it. I just got my ram kit and Ryujin ii aio on the same day a few days ago and just been fighting to get this stable.
> 
> SP is low 80s. P cores is low 90s and e cores high 70s. Can't remember the exact numbers and I'm not at home.
> 
> Ram temps haven't gone above 50c during karhu.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'll give that a shot. I'm on 1101 bios now. I haven't touched l2 voltage yet. I'll try with 1102 and if that doesn't work I'll roll back the bios and give that a shot. Much appreciated.


Please let us know how it worked out with BIOS v 1101 vs. 0086!


----------



## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> G.skill 6400c32 works great without ramfan, same as t-force and Corsair... Temperature isn't the issue on the first samsung g.skill kits, but compability with MB bioses. Most seams to me solved now. Still can't see why you are saying that staying away from g.skill, because of the first samsung kits. It's like saying; Stay away from Team extreme ddr4 4400mhz, because it didn't work on XMP with AMD 3800x
> 
> It took AMD litterally "3000" AGESA bios updates to solve most memory issues on Ryzen 1 and 2....
> 
> Or what about: Stay away from Corsair, because they have a few DDR5 kits with Micron


Im to lazy to find the posts, but people here have reported issues with G.Skill kits with Samsung IC and high temps causing errors.

For all i care, if people want crappy hot G.Skill with Samsung IC be my guest 

I would buy Corsair / Team Group Any day over G.Skill (Sammy) DDR5


----------



## sippo

opt33 said:


> looks like that setting is bugged, im on same board, same bios. I turned c states on and set C8 limit, booted up and networking connection isnt recognized among few other problems, rebooted same issue. Ran tm5 short time no errors, just that setting is bugged. You can post on msi forum if you want them to fix it, I prefer C states off as cores can rest when computer sleeps when Im not using it.


Thanks for confirmation.


----------



## TresNugget

roooo said:


> Please let us know how it worked out with BIOS v 1101 vs. 0086!


Failed immediately with 1101. Rolling back now.


----------



## roooo

TresNugget said:


> Failed immediately with 1101. Rolling back now.


I'm probably gonna try 0086 again because I got the feeling something's holding me back with 1101. Looking forward to reading you success story... ;-)


----------



## ViTosS

bl4ckdot said:


> View attachment 2546869
> 
> 
> 375 on 1080p very low, without any tweaks. I'm very doubtful about a 5950x scoring higher than 350 fps on 1080p ...


It's true, he scored 372fps with an 5950x and 6900XT, see below:


----------



## snakeeyes111

Arni90 said:


> Can you run y-cruncher at that frequency?


No way, need to much vdd. 
My 6933 daily need 1.57 for ycruncher and works also fine.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Nizzen said:


> Nice job! Do you mind post aida64 and timings?
> Nice way to compare scores











Sorry no atc on screen. But was all tight as possible. tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg 11.


IF my 6933 pass all test i`ll show u also atc. timings same like 7000.
Only trefi swichted from 65535 to 130000 and TWR from 6 to 0.


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> We repported the same almost 2 mont's ago, we bought some kits with the same kvr48u40bs8-16 number as our Hynix kits, and it turned out to be Micron. We sendt i back the same day LOL


Well, I was just curious if they did not switch to Hynix again  the 6400 CL32 GSkill inbound in 2 days xD


----------



## Simkin

7empe said:


> Well, I was just curious if they did not switch to Hynix again  the 6400 CL32 GSkill inbound in 2 days xD


6400 CL32 is Hynix, Enjoy


----------



## Fantik

My achievement with G.SKILL 6000MHz CL36








VDD - 1.300v
VDDQ - 1.300v
TXVDDQ - 1.300v
MC - 1.150v
SA - 1.000v
TM5 Extreme Anta777 - PASS
Memtest86 all tests selected - PASS
If anyone want the values I put here, not today but tomorrow. I'm working.


----------



## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> Oddly so and both my Hynix and Samsung are Gskill without PMIC. One with and one without RGB. But temps are noticeably more cooler on Hynix despite no-RGBs which I hardly think would be a majority in the heat factor. Samsung was on ANPEC PMIC while the Hynix is on Richtek PMIC.


irrc corsair uses the same pmic as gskill samsung kits.



IIISLIDEIII said:


> why did you specify that "obviously" you got the non-rgb version, do you think there is a temperature difference between rgb and non-rgb?


for tm5, 3~5c lower when rgb is off.



Simkin said:


> One more reason for G.Skill to add thermalpads i guess.
> 
> If Corsair and Team Group do pads, so should G.Skill. Not impressed by any means by G.Skill this time around.


in fact the trident z5 seems to have less surface than the old trident z (ddr4).


----------



## Simkin

Fantik said:


> My achievement with G.SKILL 6000MHz CL36
> View attachment 2547018
> 
> VDD - 1.300v
> VDDQ - 1.300v
> TXVDDQ - 1.300v
> MC - 1.150v
> SA - 1.000v
> TM5 Extreme Anta777 - PASS
> Memtest86 all tests selected - PASS
> If anyone want the values I put here, not today but tomorrow. I'm working.


Stable today, bsod tomorrow.

Hynix - This is the way.


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> G.skill 6400c32 works great without ramfan, same as t-force and Corsair... Temperature isn't the issue on the first samsung g.skill kits, but compability with MB bioses. Most seams to me solved now. Still can't see why you are saying that staying away from g.skill, because of the first samsung kits. It's like saying; Stay away from Team extreme ddr4 4400mhz, because it didn't work on XMP with AMD 3800x
> 
> It took AMD litterally "3000" AGESA bios updates to solve most memory issues on Ryzen 1 and 2....
> 
> Or what about: Stay away from Corsair, because they have a few DDR5 kits with Micron


my 6133c32 can pass tm5 absolute / karhu ramtest 10000% / hci 600%, but it will crash no matter what. only 6000 xmp is fully stable (for now).
but i wont tell ppl to stay away from gskill samsung, because this is the only way i may get new 6000j edition as rma replacement in the future.
please buy more 6000u3636e/6000u4040e, only real pros can handle them. noobs go for hynix

btw, high temp is a thing on Samsung kit.


----------



## Simkin

——


----------



## asdkj1740

Simkin said:


> Noobs go for Hynix. hahaha..
> 
> Samsung is **** this time around.


too rude. i was kidding.


----------



## Simkin

asdkj1740 said:


> too rude. i was kidding.


Yeah. :S


----------



## stahlhart

An out of left field question -- is it normal for Y-Cruncher to generate "coefficient is too large" errors for the efficiency cores on ADL, or should it be considered a memory timing issue? If I disable the efficiency cores, component stress tester passes all tests. CPU is a 12700K.


----------



## asdkj1740

kingston fury ddr5, any samsung 6000mhz?

kits of 5600mhz ($311usd) and 6000mhz ($355usd) are now available on amazon us, dirt cheap!!!!


btw, what a lovely description:

Improved stablility for overclocking





Simkin said:


> Yeah. :S


again, i was kidding

i just bought a hynix kit)


----------



## sugi0lover

stahlhart said:


> An out of left field question -- is it normal for Y-Cruncher to generate "coefficient is too large" errors for the efficiency cores on ADL, or should it be considered a memory timing issue? If I disable the efficiency cores, component stress tester passes all tests. CPU is a 12700K.


With all e cores on, it should pass. Your setup sounds unstable.


----------



## satinghostrider

TresNugget said:


> Can someone give me some pointers on getting my gskill 6400 cl32 kit stable at xmp with 12900k and z690 apex?
> 
> I've tried SA voltages between .94v and 1v using offset. Plus auto which is around 1.23-1.25v
> I've tried MC voltages between 1.25v and 1.3v.
> Oddly I've gotten roughly 8 hours stable in hci memtest and karhu ram test with MC voltage set to Auto on XMP1, which seems to be 1.25v set 1.247 get, but if I manually set to 1.25v it fails within a few minutes.
> Think I should try increasing vdd/vddq?
> Go above 1.3v with MC voltage?


On 1101, load XMP2. SA manual mode to 0.95V and MC Voltage to 1.2V. That should get you stable.


----------



## TresNugget

roooo said:


> I'm probably gonna try 0086 again because I got the feeling something's holding me back with 1101. Looking forward to reading you success story... ;-)


Lol no dice. Error in 8 seconds.


----------



## TresNugget

satinghostrider said:


> On 1101, load XMP2. SA manual mode to 0.95V and MC Voltage to 1.2V. That should get you stable.


I'll give that a shot. One thing I haven't tried is lower SA.

Edit: meant haven't tried lower MC


----------



## satinghostrider

TresNugget said:


> I'll give that a shot. One thing I haven't tried is lower SA.


Am pretty sure those settings should get you stable.


----------



## TresNugget

satinghostrider said:


> Am pretty sure those settings should get you stable.


No dice there either. Starting to think I lost the lottery somewhere with my chip, board, or maybe the ram just isn't up for it. I'm trying 6200 at 32-39-39-102 now to see if that's stable.


----------



## satinghostrider

TresNugget said:


> No dice there either. Starting to think I lost the lottery somewhere with my chip, board, or maybe the ram just isn't up for it. I'm trying 6200 at 32-39-39-102 now to see if that's stable.


You should try XMP first to check your rams are fine.
If they still doesn't work, I'd increase VDD/VDDQ to 1.42V and check if it helps with things.


----------



## stahlhart

sugi0lover said:


> With all e cores on, it should pass. Your setup sounds unstable.


You are correct; set BIOS back to defaults, and everything passed:










Up until now I had been passing TM5 anta777 extreme and 1usmus_v3 without issue, but I just had this gut feeling that I wasn't pushing it hard enough, so I added this one today.

Back to the drawing board. Thank you for the help.


----------



## opt33

asdkj1740 said:


> my 6133c32 can pass tm5 absolute / karhu ramtest 10000% / hci 600%, but it will crash no matter what. only 6000 xmp is fully stable (for now).
> but i wont tell ppl to stay away from gskill samsung, because this is the only way i may get new 6000j edition as rma replacement in the future.
> please buy more 6000u3636e/6000u4040e, only real pros can handle them. noobs go for hynix
> 
> btw, high temp is a thing on Samsung kit.


I just ran into that issue with 6400c321T on my samsung 6000u36 kit. With 1.45vdd/vddq 1.26vdd2 (mc) passed hci overnight, tm5 1.5hrs then two hardware error/memory game crashes. Then passed prime 4hrs, cinebench, aida64 overnight, hci 7hrs, karu 6 hrs, y cruncher but still crashed gaming. Increased vdd/vddq and mc to 1.3v and tried sa different values without resolving crashes. So back to 6200c32cr1 with no problems 40+ hours gaming and weeks of normal use.

Basically my samsung has same behavior just slightly better in IC lottery so occurring at slightly higher mhz. Dont know if it is pmic voltage regulation at higher voltage levels, issue with intermittent loads, or simply IC/MC not capable despite passing stress tests, but annoying that cant produce the error during any stress tests except gaming where crashes are disrupting.

Have hynix coming, if does 6400cr1+ will use it, if not will stick with 6200cr1 til better kits comes out.


----------



## TresNugget

satinghostrider said:


> You should try XMP first to check your rams are fine.
> If they still doesn't work, I'd increase VDD/VDDQ to 1.4275V and check if it helps with things.


XMP 1/2 doesn't work. Tried SA between .95 and 1v and MC between 1.2 and 1.35 and a bunch of combos in between. I've tried VDD/VDDQ at 1.42.


----------



## satinghostrider

TresNugget said:


> XMP 1/2 doesn't work. Tried SA between .95 and 1v and MC between 1.2 and 1.35 and a bunch of combos in between. I've tried VDD/VDDQ at 1.42.


That's odd then. Try Maximus Tweak > Mode 2 (Under Dram timing frequency) and see if it helps? Past this not sure what could be the issue.


----------



## asdkj1740

opt33 said:


> I just ran into that issue with 6400c321T on my samsung 6000u36 kit. With 1.45vdd/vddq 1.26vdd2 (mc) passed hci overnight, tm5 1.5hrs then two hardware error/memory game crashes. Then passed prime 4hrs, cinebench, aida64 overnight, hci 7hrs, karu 6 hrs, y cruncher but still crashed gaming. Increased vdd/vddq and mc to 1.3v and tried sa different values without resolving crashes. So back to 6200c32cr1 with no problems 40+ hours gaming and weeks of normal use.
> 
> Basically my samsung has same behavior just slightly better in IC lottery so occurring at slightly higher mhz. Dont know if it is pmic voltage regulation at higher voltage levels, issue with intermittent loads, or simply IC/MC not capable despite passing stress tests, but annoying that cant produce the error during any stress tests except gaming where crashes are disrupting.
> 
> Have hynix coming, if does 6400cr1+ will use it, if not will stick with 6200cr1 til better kits comes out.


you will soon face the same problem on your 6200c32 1t. 
i eventually got push back to xmp 6000 now.
it is like leakage. the matter of time.


----------



## sugi0lover

tested my current daily setup with y-cruncher~
Unlike lots of other benching tools. y-cruncher checks the stability & performance, so I always run it.


----------



## opt33

asdkj1740 said:


> you will soon face the same problem on your 6200c32 1t.
> i eventually got push back to xmp 6000 now.
> it is like leakage. the matter of time.


So far have not seen regression on mine, only 6200cr1 is stable for both stress testing and gaming, whereas 6400cr1 is stable for 6-7 hour runs of stress tests but curiously fails gaming. But time will tell regarding regression, unless hynix kit is significantly better then samsung will be retired.


----------



## munternet

I'm looking forward to getting my ram water cooled and doing some tuning
So far I just set an AI overclock on the cpu LLC6, SP85 (SP93 P-cores), TVB+1 and enabled XMP on the Adata's and set to 6400 without toughing anything else yet
Ran CB R23.2 for 10 mins and hit 97c with 29°c ambient and no sign of instability. I know it can hit 100°c and throttle and it only hits 77°c after 3 or 4 games of BF2042. Running for a few days now.
Not sure if the CB scores are any good but ram OC should boost it.
Nothing fancy so far but it's rock solid out of the gate and looks promising


----------



## Stockman

bl4ckdot said:


> I realized I never posted a screen with the all the informations. This is my current daily OC.
> 1.25 VDD2
> 1.2 SA
> 1.45 CPU VDDQ
> 1.45 RAM
> 
> View attachment 2546768


Excellent results. Would you be willing to post bios screenshots of timings or explain which timings you manually set vs left on auto? Some great info in this thread for Apex, but less so for Unify-X owners (like myself). TIA.


----------



## roooo

TresNugget said:


> XMP 1/2 doesn't work. Tried SA between .95 and 1v and MC between 1.2 and 1.35 and a bunch of combos in between. I've tried VDD/VDDQ at 1.42.


That's sad to read. Did you revert any CPU/Cache O/C just to rule that out?
And did you completely revert back to a cleared CMOS and optimized defaults, starting from scratch with BIOS settings instead of loading old profiles?


----------



## roooo

Do you folks use / experience any advantages by tweaking the DRAM Switching Frequencies for let's say non-extreme mem OC aimed at establishing a daily stable?


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted at Korean PC forum with Asus Z690 Extreme

6600-30-38-38-30-300-1T
SA1.3 / MC 1.4 / VDD 1.58 / VDDQ 1.53
 Amazing that 4 slot board can do 1t at high clock.


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> OC result posted at Korean PC forum with Asus Z690 Extreme
> 
> 6600-30-38-38-30-300-1T
> SA1.3 / MC 1.4 / VDD 1.58 / VDDQ 1.53
> Amazing that 4 slot board can do 1t at high clock.
> View attachment 2547070


I think it's the friend of Safedisk  Safedisk posted this on facebook too today


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> OC result posted at Korean PC forum with Asus Z690 Extreme
> 
> 6600-30-38-38-30-300-1T
> SA1.3 / MC 1.4 / VDD 1.58 / VDDQ 1.53
> Amazing that 4 slot board can do 1t at high clock.
> View attachment 2547070


f5-6666u


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> f5-6666u


Es memory and ES cpu


----------



## bl4ckdot

I actually was able to do 6800c30 for 1.45v on dimm, to my surprise. This profile is also tighter than my previous one I posted, quite happy with the result. This also pass ycruncher 2.5B without issue
Maybe 6800c28 is doable with "safe" voltage ..

GB3 at 53p / 42e / 44r


----------



## marco.is.not.80

sugi0lover said:


> tested my current daily setup with y-cruncher~
> Unlike lots of other benching tools. y-cruncher checks the stability & performance, so I always run it.
> View attachment 2547034


Could you share your voltage settings - I have the same sticks as you and the same processor and have almost the same settings as you except I do Command Rate 1 which maxes out for me at 6400 mhz. Was surprised to see your y-cruncher score which was better than mine and wouldn't have thought CR2 and only 400 mhz more would be so much faster (55 seconds for you as opposed to 61 seconds for me). I think you sold me on Command Rate 2 and higher DDR5 speed so just was curious to know what your voltage settings were and I'll use them as a base to dial my own sticks in.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Carillo

7empe said:


> Fast status report. ValueRam Kingston Fury KVR48U40BS8-16 are no longer Hynix. It’s a Micron. Does not scale with voltage at all. With Jedec timings all they can go is 5400-5600. Touching any subtimings = immediate instabilities. The PMIC is secured. The stick went back to the shop





sugi0lover said:


> tested my current daily setup with y-cruncher~
> Unlike lots of other benching tools. y-cruncher checks the stability & performance, so I always run it.
> View attachment 2547034


Nice. Are you running sub-zero for dayli settings ?


----------



## TresNugget

roooo said:


> That's sad to read. Did you revert any CPU/Cache O/C just to rule that out?
> And did you completely revert back to a cleared CMOS and optimized defaults, starting from scratch with BIOS settings instead of loading old profiles?


Yeah, did did all that. No luck plus there's been no CPU OC yet since I just got my ram kit and wanted to get that stable first. Good news is it seems to be rock solid stable at 6200. Gonna keep playing around with it.


----------



## sugi0lover

marco.is.not.80 said:


> Could you share your voltage settings - I have the same sticks as you and the same processor and have almost the same settings as you except I do Command Rate 1 which maxes out for me at 6400 mhz. Was surprised to see your y-cruncher score which was better than mine and wouldn't have thought CR2 and only 400 mhz more would be so much faster (55 seconds for you as opposed to 61 seconds for me). I think you sold me on Command Rate 2 and higher DDR5 speed so just was curious to know what your voltage settings were and I'll use them as a base to dial my own sticks in.
> 
> Thanks in advance!











*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


thank you. 45 degrees sounds great for ddr5, what oc and what voltages do you use to get that temperature? Right now 6400c30 1t is rock stable. Testing 7000c32 atm. Maybe I settle for 6800 2t or 64001t. 66001t require alot of juice :p




www.overclock.net




I posted my setting here. Check the voltages~



Carillo said:


> Nice. Are you running sub-zero for dayli settings ?


Nope. Water temp is around 18C. The bench shows max temp like that. You can try it and verify it yourself.
Max wattage is also bug.


----------



## marco.is.not.80

sugi0lover said:


> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> thank you. 45 degrees sounds great for ddr5, what oc and what voltages do you use to get that temperature? Right now 6400c30 1t is rock stable. Testing 7000c32 atm. Maybe I settle for 6800 2t or 64001t. 66001t require alot of juice :p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I posted my setting here. Check the voltages~
> 
> 
> Nope. Water temp is around 18C. The bench shows max temp like that. You can try it and verify it yourself.
> Max wattage is also bug.


Thank you! Much appreciated!

EDIT: I just had to add that what a pro - you even include the .CMO file - that's really going beyond the call of duty - I hope others appreciate how awesome that is. Looks like I'm going to flash my BIOS to match yours.


----------



## sugi0lover

marco.is.not.80 said:


> Thank you! Much appreciated!
> 
> EDIT: I just had to add that what a pro - you even include the .CMO file - that's really going beyond the call of duty - I hope others appreciate how awesome that is. Looks like I'm going to flash my BIOS to match yours.


No problem. If the profile doesn't work, try 6800-30-40-40-30-320 (bclk 100)


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

sugi0lover said:


> No problem. If the profile doesn't work, try 6800-30-40-40-30-320 (bclk 100)


as soon as I get the ram I try, thanks.
I don't have the rams under liquid, I don't think I will be able to maintain your tensions with adequate temperatures for a daily use, most likely I will have to lower everything also because I play a lot of Warzone and that game pushes a lot on the ram, what do you think?


----------



## sugi0lover

IIISLIDEIII said:


> as soon as I get the ram I try, thanks.
> I don't have the rams under liquid, I don't think I will be able to maintain your tensions with adequate temperatures for a daily use, most likely I will have to lower everything also because I play a lot of Warzone and that game pushes a lot on the ram, what do you think?


I think so too unless you have really good spot cooling to Rams.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

sugi0lover said:


> I think so too unless you have really good spot cooling to Rams.


bad that goes if the temperatures are too high I bring them back to 6400.

however for those who go to air the corsair dominator could have a more performing heatsink than gskill.


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> The waterblocks is on
> 
> 6933 c30
> 
> CPU : 12900K SP101 with E-cores enabled
> DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> Voltages : SA 0.96v / TX 1.575 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.5
> Ram cooling : Supercool waterblocks
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2546569


So, a litte update regarding the 6933 c30 HCI stable profile i posted on thursday. Since I have been in 
quarentine since thursday, i have had a lot of time to actually test game-stability and i can 
confirm that this profile seems rock-stable in the following games : 

Call of duty Vanguard 
Call of Duty Warzone 
BF 2042 
F1 2021 
Kart Kraft 
GTA V 
World War 3
Escape from Tarkov 

Around 15 hours gaming so far. 

Settings used 


CPU : 54/51 1,300v LLC6 E-cores diabled ( for better latency) 800Khz SF 
Voltages : SA 0.96v / TX 1.575 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.5

MRC fastboot is enabled, so no sudden unstability when booting up the next day.


----------



## centvalny

Gettin there with sammies 7Kc30 tight
tRPRE 2 and dram clk 92


----------



## marco.is.not.80

marco.is.not.80 said:


> Thank you! Much appreciated!
> 
> EDIT: I just had to add that what a pro - you even include the .CMO file - that's really going beyond the call of duty - I hope others appreciate how awesome that is. Looks like I'm going to flash my BIOS to match yours.


What is crazy here is that there are so many settings that can go way lower when using CR2.


sugi0lover said:


> No problem. If the profile doesn't work, try 6800-30-40-40-30-320 (bclk 100)


After flashing my bios to the 086 and loading your .CMO after a fresh reset to defaults I had to make a couple of adjustments. 6800 is probably possible but I think I'm weak on my 2nd DIMM slot and would need to loosen up the timings more than I want to. After spending the last 6 hours on it I settled with 32-39-39-28 at 6600. Everything else is the same although I should probably do some voltage adjustments now since I probably don't need as much as what you have set. Still, your secondary timings are epic - it's worth it just for that in my opinion. Most important thing is that I have a really great framework to start with as I get things dialed in long term. You know how it is - memory is one of those things that you never quite settle on because in the back of you mind you're always thinking about some combo you didn't try before and "maybe this is the one!" ;-) Thanks for being so prominent in my DDR5 journey. If you remember it was you who had the Samsung sticks and was running CR1 and I had just gotten my sticks and was looking for info and when I saw that I was like "*** no way" and sure enough I was off to the races. Turns out we both saw the new GSkill's with the Hynix ICs and got them roughly at the same time and here I am again thanking you for your settings.


----------



## TresNugget

marco.is.not.80 said:


> What is crazy here is that there are so many settings that can go way lower when using CR2.
> 
> After flashing my bios to the 086 and loading your .CMO after a fresh reset to defaults I had to make a couple of adjustments. 6800 is probably possible but I think I'm weak on my 2nd DIMM slot and would need to loosen up the timings more than I want to. After spending the last 6 hours on it I settled with 32-39-39-28 at 6600. Everything else is the same although I should probably do some voltage adjustments now since I probably don't need as much as what you have set. Still, your secondary timings are epic - it's worth it just for that in my opinion. Most important thing is that I have a really great framework to start with as I get things dialed in long term. You know how it is - memory is one of those things that you never quite settle on because in the back of you mind you're always thinking about some combo you didn't try before and "maybe this is the one!" ;-) Thanks for being so prominent in my DDR5 journey. If you remember it was you who had the Samsung sticks and was running CR1 and I had just gotten my sticks and was looking for info and when I saw that I was like "*** no way" and sure enough I was off to the races. Turns out we both saw the new GSkill's with the Hynix ICs and got them roughly at the same time and here I am again thanking you for your settings.


Speaking of being weak on the 2nd slot, I found where a couple people on the hwbot forums had 2 Apex boards and there was a very significant variance between the 2. I'm thinking maybe my board's weaker than some and that's why I can't get my 6400 c32 kit stable at xmp. It works flawlessly at 6200 but 6400 usually fails within minutes and it doesn't scale with voltage. I tried to to 1.45v with no help. Either that or my sp83 chip just isn't up to the task but I'm leaning board. Maybe Asus will let me rma it but for now I think I'm just going to try to tighten the timings at 6200 and see what happens.


----------



## Nizzen

TresNugget said:


> Speaking of being weak on the 2nd slot, I found where a couple people on the hwbot forums had 2 Apex boards and there was a very significant variance between the 2. I'm thinking maybe my board's weaker than some and that's why I can't get my 6400 c32 kit stable at xmp. It works flawlessly at 6200 but 6400 usually fails within minutes and it doesn't scale with voltage. I tried to to 1.45v with no help. Either that or my sp83 chip just isn't up to the task but I'm leaning board. Maybe Asus will let me rma it but for now I think I'm just going to try to tighten the timings at 6200 and see what happens.


Very good imc is fixing this "problems"


----------



## TresNugget

Nizzen said:


> Very good imc is fixing this "problems"


Probably right. I plan on getting a 12900ks when they launch, so maybe I'll have better luck with a binned chip. I usually just get a delidded top bin from silicon lottery but obviously that's not an option.


----------



## Sayenah

TresNugget said:


> Probably right. I plan on getting a 12900ks when they launch, so maybe I'll have better luck with a binned chip. I usually just get a delidded top bin from silicon lottery but obviously that's not an option.


it is your board, and Asus relatively ****tier design. Try a Unify-X. Same Sp88 with the same IMC failed to scaleRAM on two Apex units but flies perfectly on a UnifyX.


----------



## marco.is.not.80

TresNugget said:


> Speaking of being weak on the 2nd slot, I found where a couple people on the hwbot forums had 2 Apex boards and there was a very significant variance between the 2. I'm thinking maybe my board's weaker than some and that's why I can't get my 6400 c32 kit stable at xmp. It works flawlessly at 6200 but 6400 usually fails within minutes and it doesn't scale with voltage. I tried to to 1.45v with no help. Either that or my sp83 chip just isn't up to the task but I'm leaning board. Maybe Asus will let me rma it but for now I think I'm just going to try to tighten the timings at 6200 and see what happens.


I wouldn't RMA the board. It's pretty standard to have one slot weaker than the other. As with all things there will be some that get magic boards but even a plain ol' Apex is still the best board around and can provide months (years?) of fun. My CPU is SP85 rated - so seems fairly average and it could very well be that it's my memory controller. Remember, SP rating has to do with voltage and clock speed for processor speed and nothing to do with memory so you could have an incredible overclocking 12900k that didn't necessarily support super memory speeds with lights and lasers shooting everywhere. ;-) I'm still not sure if I'm gonna stick with 6600 CR2 or go back to 6400 CR1 but if you can do 6200 CR1 you have to admit - and still can't believe it - but that's CRAZY. Think of how just last gen the idea of DDR4 4500+ at CR1 would've been impossible and now here we are at DDR5 6000+ CR1... Enjoy!


----------



## TresNugget

Sayenah said:


> it is your board, and Asus relatively ****tier design. Try a Unify-X. Same Sp88 with the same IMC failed to scaleRAM on two Apex units but flies perfectly on a UnifyX.


That sucks. If/when I get another board it'll probably be the EVGA Dark/Kingpin.


----------



## Nizzen

Sayenah said:


> it is your board, and Asus relatively ****tier design. Try a Unify-X. Same Sp88 with the same IMC failed to scaleRAM on two Apex units but flies perfectly on a UnifyX.


Why did Apex fly with new cpu for me and @Carillo ? Userfailure? 
A bit strange you are just writing without any actual proof that Apex sux... For what we know, it can be userfailure, or using wrong settings...

DDR5 is very new, so it's VERY easy to use the wrong settings. I don't think anyone knows this plattform 100% yet.


----------



## Sayenah

TresNugget said:


> That sucks. If/when I get another board it'll probably be the EVGA Dark/Kingpin.


yes, after more than a decade of being with ASUS products this experience has absolutely turned me off. This is either terrible design, cost cutting, or just terrible QC.

I am waiting on the Kingping Dark as well. I hate that the UnifyX has absolutely terrible Thunderbolt implementation and everything about them feels so… Chinese haha. However the board kills it on memory training and memory compatibility. XMP works, and then some. I do miss Asus AI OC though.

check out Buildzoid’s thoughts on this as well.


----------



## Sayenah

Nizzen said:


> Why did Apex fly with new cpu for me and @Carillo ? Userfailure?
> A bit strange you are just writing without any actual proof that Apex sux... For what we know, it can be userfailure, or using wrong settings...
> 
> DDR5 is very new, so it's VERY easy to use the wrong settings. I don't think anyone knows this plattform 100% yet.


I don’t know about user error at this point. I am talking straight vanilla XMP (on two units back to back) like the poster I was responding to. No matter what, XMPis relatively more broken on the Apex than it is on the Unify-X (despite how new DDR5 is). At least in my case.


----------



## sblantipodi

Is there someone experiencing IMC degradation yet?


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

how reliable should i trust what i'm reading about apex vs unify instability? how many users here have had the opportunity to test the same memories and discover that on apex there were problems and on unify everything was perfect? I am still ordering and can still trade


----------



## Carillo

IIISLIDEIII said:


> how reliable should i trust what i'm reading about apex vs unify instability? how many users here have had the opportunity to test the same memories and discover that on apex there were problems and on unify everything was perfect? I am still ordering and can still trade


Why don't you try both and report back to us ? I did not like the Unify X at all. But's that's one guy's opinion

I have tried 5 different cpu's and propbably 20 memory kits on my Apex board, and i never ever had one single issue with XMP stability with both Samsung and Hynix on air. I have tried and tried to replicated peoples issues regarding XMP instability but it just passes every test... Maby user error one my side ?


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

Carillo said:


> Why don't you try both and report back to us ? I did not like the Unify X at all. But's that's one guy's opinion
> 
> I have tried 5 different cpu's and propbably 20 memory kits on my Apex board, and i never ever had one single issue with XMP stability with both Samsung and Hynix on air. I have tried and tried to replicated peoples issues regarding XMP instability but it just passes every test... Maby user error one my side ?


I could also do it but not at this moment, I have bought, tried and returned several monitors in the last period and I have received some sort of admonition on amazon, I would like to avoid having my account blocked.


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> DDR5 is very new, so it's VERY easy to use the wrong settings. I don't think anyone knows this plattform 100% yet.


Some dont even have the board.


Carillo said:


> Maby user error one my side ?


That is possible


----------



## Sayenah

IIISLIDEIII said:


> how reliable should i trust what i'm reading about apex vs unify instability? how many users here have had the opportunity to test the same memories and discover that on apex there were problems and on unify everything was perfect? I am still ordering and can still trade


I think you should post questions like this on Reddit and HWBot forums. There is very little to be said when on two Apex units XMP profiles didn’t work but on the UnifyX it did. However the same cast of clowns will repeat uSeR eRrORz till they are blue in the face. Now something can be said that Asus may have had a bad batch and I happened to grab two of those back to back from my local Micro Center. This may be true, however, if you hang out on Reddit’s overclocking sub Reddit, you are likely to come across YouTubers like Buildzoid who say the same thing about the Apex.

regardless, this is an Asus board andmost folks here don’t care for XMP profiles as they are tinkerers. So what may be a “bug” for users like myself, may not even ping on their radar as they will manually tune their sticks from the get go.

so take this data as you will.


----------



## Balaned

Off topic but does anyone happen to know if Arctic Liquid Freezer II fits on Apex? I know it works with Unify-X and this is one of my DDR5 upgrade check boxes.


----------



## Sayenah

Balaned said:


> Off topic but does anyone happen to know if Arctic Liquid Freezer II fits on Apex? I know it works with Unify-X and this is one of my DDR5 upgrade check boxes.


i made a post about this and it is in the Intel Motherboards sub. Short answer, it does fit but is absolute hell to get it right because of Arctic’s really ghetto mouthing mechanism (also requires you take off a small plastic cover on the pump unit).

secondly the convexity of the LF2 cold plate is not enough to counter the eventual concavity of the 12th gen IHS (read up on Igor’s lab write up of the washer mod and the bending IHS article for related info). In short, you are likely to not mount it right. Search on Reddit under “12900k AIO” and see how many people have temp issues with the LF2

If AIO is your only option then look at the H150i/H170i. I have gone full custom loop as AIOs are too finicky with the 12th gen


----------



## SoldierRBT

Got a 6400C32 kit. Still testing but looks promising for watercooling.
12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 28-37-37 1T 1.55v VDD 1.50v VDDQ/TX VDDQ 0.925v SA 1.30v MC


----------



## Balaned

Sayenah said:


> i made a post about this and it is in the Intel Motherboards sub. Short answer, it does fit but is absolute hell to get it right because of Arctic’s really ghetto mouthing mechanism (also requires you take off a small plastic cover on the pump unit).
> 
> secondly the convexity of the LF2 cold plate is not enough to counter the eventual concavity of the 12th gen IHS (read up on Igor’s lab write up of the washer mod and the bending IHS article for related info). In short, you are likely to not mount it right. Search on Reddit under “12900k AIO” and see how many people have temp issues with the LF2
> 
> If AIO is your only option then look at the H150i/H170i. I have gone full custom loop as AIOs are too finicky with the 12th gen


OK, thanks. I'm using LF2 420 on a 12900K/TUF combo right now and temps have been better than decent imo. This is since Alder Lake's release date and 3 or 4 remounts. I'd prefer not to replace the AIO as it's pretty new but do plan on dong the washer swap with the switch to DDR5. If temps are bad then I guess I'll start putting a loop together. I appreciate your information and knowing I won't need to rule out the Apex.


----------



## roooo

sblantipodi said:


> Is there someone experiencing IMC degradation yet?


Not sure, do you? I had my Gskill 6400C32 5000% Karhu stable at 6400C30 1T with VDD 1.48V, SA 0.95V, MC 1.25V a couple of days ago, but with the same settings, the kit now won't post without disabling MCH Full Check and then consistently errors out after <100% in Karhu. Have kept VDD<=1.5V, SA <=1.2V and MC<=1.3V pretty much all the time for my testing. Temps are not an issue either, they usually are below 40C. This is on Apex 0086, 12900K.

Any ideas what else could be the reason?


----------



## sblantipodi

roooo said:


> Not sure, do you? I had my Gskill 6400C32 5000% Karhu stable at 6400C30 1T with VDD 1.48V, SA 0.95V, MC 1.25V a couple of days ago, but with the same settings, the kit now won't post without disabling MCH Full Check and then consistently errors out after <100% in Karhu. Have kept VDD<=1.5V, SA <=1.2V and MC<=1.3V pretty much all the time for my testing. Temps are not an issue either, they usually are below 40C. This is on Apex 0086, 12900K.
> 
> Any ideas what else could be the reason?


I'm not an expert, always used similar voltages than yours, I was able to test for days without errors but sometimes I get some errors on boot and then a lot of errors during mem test.
I think that I'm going to give up 😁


----------



## Vlados

does anyone know if unify-x has pmic oc?


----------



## sugi0lover

Vlados said:


> does anyone know if unify-x has pmic oc?


Unify x no. I know that Gigabyte Arous pro has pmic oc like Apex.


----------



## borant

SoldierRBT said:


> Got a 6400C32 kit. Still testing but looks promising for watercooling.
> 12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 28-37-37 1T 1.55v VDD 1.50v VDDQ/TX VDDQ 0.925v SA 1.30v MC
> View attachment 2547170


Can you post a screenshot of mem tweakit timings #4 tab with your latencies? I tried about the same config but it fails OCCT and AIDA64 while stable in memtest and TM5.


----------



## sippo

MSI Unify-X, 12900K 5.2/4.8GHz 6933 30-40-40-30 2T (TeamGroup 6400)

VDD 1.5v
VDDQ 1.5
TX VDDQ 1.5
SA 1.35v (bellow system is unstable)
MC 1.4V (bellow system is unstable)

Quick question:
Have you seen trfc/trfcpb that high (SK Hynix)? - I need those values for stable - for now 3 days without problem


----------



## asdkj1740

roooo said:


> Not sure, do you? I had my Gskill 6400C32 5000% Karhu stable at 6400C30 1T with VDD 1.48V, SA 0.95V, MC 1.25V a couple of days ago, but with the same settings, the kit now won't post without disabling MCH Full Check and then consistently errors out after <100% in Karhu. Have kept VDD<=1.5V, SA <=1.2V and MC<=1.3V pretty much all the time for my testing. Temps are not an issue either, they usually are below 40C. This is on Apex 0086, 12900K.
> 
> Any ideas what else could be the reason?


"the kit now won't post without disabling MCH Full Check"
haha i had the same problem as well. i was thinking the kit was dead when xmp was enabled.



Carillo said:


> Why don't you try both and report back to us ? I did not like the Unify X at all. But's that's one guy's opinion
> 
> I have tried 5 different cpu's and propbably 20 memory kits on my Apex board, and i never ever had one single issue with XMP stability with both Samsung and Hynix on air. I have tried and tried to replicated peoples issues regarding XMP instability but it just passes every test... Maby user error one my side ?


xmp is like plug and play, it is difficult for general users to mess around the "one click" in bios.
kind of thinking this may be caused by the mounting pressure problem, considering your cases without any issue vs. tremendous problems in general.

even asus shamino has tested the gskill es kit (6400mhz iirc) and confirmed the instability problem existed.


----------



## sblantipodi

Guys it seems that my Asus Extreme is killing my RAM.
I have set 1.390V vdd and vddq but hwinfo reports a max voltage of 1.8V. :0

Damn is my Extreme mobo killing my RAM with crazy voltages?


----------



## SoldierRBT

borant said:


> Can you post a screenshot of mem tweakit timings #4 tab with your latencies? I tried about the same config but it fails OCCT and AIDA64 while stable in memtest and TM5.


 RTLs are 59/54/59/54


----------



## borant

SoldierRBT said:


> RTLs are 59/54/59/54


Thanks! It looks like you got a better bin, I have an "average" 63/58/64/58 comparing to other posts.


----------



## Balaned

Just ordered Teamgroup 6400 & Unify-X. Moving 12900K over from TUFF plus B-Die @ 3900cl14. First DDR5 for me, learning curve to get a game-stable OC is giving me a touch of anxiety.


----------



## Nizzen

Balaned said:


> Off topic but does anyone happen to know if Arctic Liquid Freezer II fits on Apex? I know it works with Unify-X and this is one of my DDR5 upgrade check boxes.


I used it for 2 weeks before I got the 1700 ek block. It's a very tight fit, but it works great


----------



## Nizzen

borant said:


> Thanks! It looks like you got a better bin, I have an "average" 63/58/64/58 comparing to other posts.


Or you forgot to enable "round trip latency"


----------



## bl4ckdot

New day, new daily oc. Guess I'm done for a while with that one.

6800c28-39-39-28
SA 1.2v
VDD2 1.25v
CPU VDDQ 1.45v
RAM VDDQ / Voltage : 1.52v

CPU at 53p / 42e / 44r @ 1.3v


----------



## roooo

asdkj1740 said:


> "the kit now won't post without disabling MCH Full Check"
> haha i had the same problem as well. i was thinking the kit was dead when xmp was enabled.
> 
> 
> xmp is like plug and play, it is difficult for general users to mess around the "one click" in bios.
> kind of thinking this may be caused by the mounting pressure problem, considering your cases without any issue vs. tremendous problems in general.
> 
> even asus shamino has tested the gskill es kit (6400mhz iirc) and confirmed the instability problem existed.


Thanks, good to read I'm not the only one, but sad on the other hand. So do you have any suggestions? Do you think any of the Apex's mem presets would be a better starting point for mem tweaking than XMP1/XMP2?


----------



## timd78

What is the consensus of hot samsung gskill sticks?

Runs fine stock XMP in normal operations but TM5 extreme overheats it and then generates errors (gigabyte board, voltages seem correct). Is this stress test too intense for DDR5 ? If yes how are people testing?

Its the only ram i could get that wasn't super expensive so i shouldn't complain.

Im now left wondering if i should enhance its cooling or save it for an RMA later when there is cheaper stock.


----------



## Nizzen

timd78 said:


> What is the consensus of hot samsung gskill sticks?
> 
> Runs fine stock XMP in normal operations but TM5 extreme overheats it and then generates errors (gigabyte board, voltages seem correct). Is this stress test too intense for DDR5 ? If yes how are people testing?
> 
> Its the only ram i could get that wasn't super expensive so i shouldn't complain.
> 
> Im not left wondering if i should enhance its cooling or save it for an RMA later when there is cheaper stock.


Cool memory with a fan  
My samsung g.skill went from 67c to 45c 
Was throwing errors from ~63-64c


----------



## timd78

yes same temps for my errors which i assume is closer to 80 degrees on the die.


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> Thanks, good to read I'm not the only one, but sad on the other hand. So do you have any suggestions? Do you think any of the Apex's mem presets would be a better starting point for mem tweaking than XMP1/XMP2?


I've tested this memory on my setup the last few days. 0086/1011 runs better on XMP but you need to adjust SA to 0.95V and MC Voltage to 1.2V. I've tried the presets and changing it to 6000 C32 1T but for some reason I just can't get it stable. Randomly it can pass TM5 but then games just freeze and throw me back to desktop. Stock XMP settings isn't fantastic despite good read speeds. Latency is about 62.4ns for me on stock CPU. I even had the same problem with Kingston Fury Beast sticks which had Hynix. Exact same behaviour.

Samsung 5600 kit I can run 6000 C32 1T so damn easy but it sucks on 0086/1011 bios. No matter what I can't get them stable until reverting back to 0811.

I'm not sure if it's my board or CPU that is making the Hynix rams a challenge to run 1T timings or I'm missing a setting. And I need to use Maximus Tweak Mode 2 to even get it remotely stable for 6000C32 1T but it still crashes randomly in games after maybe 5-10 mins.

Temps on the new 6400c32 are actually good despite having no thermal pads or maybe it's just Hynix itself running cooler. It's like high 30s to low 40s during TM5. Samsung's are like otw to hellfire with it easily crossing into 50s at the same time of testing for TM5. Yes all my kits are cooler by a ram fan.

All my testing is on stock CPU based on what I've tested.


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> I've tested this memory on my setup the last few days. 0086/1011 runs better on XMP but you need to adjust SA to 0.95V and MC Voltage to 1.2V. I've tried the presets and changing it to 6000 C32 1T but for some reason I just can't get it stable. Randomly it can pass TM5 but then games just freeze and throw me back to desktop. Stock XMP settings isn't fantastic despite good read speeds. Latency is about 62.4ns for me on stock CPU. I even had the same problem with Kingston Fury Beast sticks which had Hynix. Exact same behaviour.
> 
> Samsung 5600 kit I can run 6000 C32 1T so damn easy but it sucks on 0086/1011 bios. No matter what I can't get them stable until reverting back to 0811.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's my board or CPU that is making the Hynix rams a challenge to run 1T timings or I'm missing a setting. And I need to use Maximus Tweak Mode 2 to even get it remotely stable for 6000C32 1T but it still crashes randomly in games after maybe 5-10 mins.
> 
> Temps on the new 6400c32 are actually good despite having no thermal pads or maybe it's just Hynix itself running cooler. It's like high 30s to low 40s during TM5.


I also find the temps on the Gskill 6400C32 significantly lower than the Gskil 6000C36, so considering similar heat sinks I'm assuming it's Hynix vs. Samsung. For me it's almost a 10C difference.

Good you mentioned the Samsung kit, with the 6000C36 it was a breeze dialling in 6000C32 for me as well with 0811 BIOS. Well let's face it - DDR5 is still beta. 

I currently appear to have the GSkill 6400C32 stable at 6400C30 with tight subs at 1.47V and 0086 BIOS, though that's not exactly satisfying. Let's see how long stability lasts...


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> I also find the temps on the Gskill 6400C32 significantly lower than the Gskil 6000C36, so considering similar heat sinks I'm assuming it's Hynix vs. Samsung. For me it's almost a 10C difference.
> 
> Good you mentioned the Samsung kit, with the 6000C36 it was a breeze dialling in 6000C32 for me as well with 0811 BIOS. Well let's face it - DDR5 is still beta.
> 
> I currently appear to have the GSkill 6400C32 stable at 6400C30 with tight subs at 1.47V and 0086 BIOS, though that's not exactly satisfying. Let's see how long stability lasts...


Do you mind if you can share with me your bios txt so I can see if I've missed anything? For some reason I can't get them stable even at 6000C32 1T. Is your 6400C30 1T or 2T? XMP works fine for me but latency wise is considerably worse than 6000C321T. Danke!


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> Do you mind if you can share with me your bios txt so I can see if I've missed anything? For some reason I can't get them stable even at 6000C32 1T. Is your 6400C32 1T or 2T? XMP works fine for me but latency wise is considerably worse than 6000C321T. Danke!


It's 2T, that's the point - as soon as I flip it to 1T, I can't even post anymore, I had also tried that with 6000C30 and C32. And seriously, I'm not gonna crank up voltages to 1.5V or beyond, because I'm partially using my system for work and need to rely on it to a certain extent.

However even with 6400C30 2T and CPU OC (P-cores only, 51x all-core and 54x three core plus TVB+2 and 50x cache) I'm getting somewhere around 51ns latency.

Sure I'll share my settings as txt. I'm currently away from my main machine, but I'll drop you a PM later!


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> It's 2T, that's the point - as soon as I flip it to 1T, I can't even post anymore, I had also tried that with 6000C30 and C32. And seriously, I'm not gonna crank up voltages to 1.5V or beyond, because I'm partially using my system for work and need to rely on it to a certain extent.
> 
> However even with 6400C30 2T and CPU OC (P-cores only, 51x all-core and 54x three core plus TVB+2 and 50x cache) I'm getting somewhere around 51ns latency.
> 
> Sure I'll share my settings as txt. I'm currently away from my main machine, but I'll drop you a PM later!


Those settings still will be better than 6000C32 1T nevertheless. Thanks for your help Freunde. Most appreciated I might just try 2T now I'm not even sure maybe the new Apex bioses only rewards CPUs with very good IMCs to run 1T at anything more than 6200. Sure feels that way.


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> It's 2T, that's the point - as soon as I flip it to 1T, I can't even post anymore, I had also tried that with 6000C30 and C32. And seriously, I'm not gonna crank up voltages to 1.5V or beyond, because I'm partially using my system for work and need to rely on it to a certain extent.
> 
> However even with 6400C30 2T and CPU OC (P-cores only, 51x all-core and 54x three core plus TVB+2 and 50x cache) I'm getting somewhere around 51ns latency.
> 
> Sure I'll share my settings as txt. I'm currently away from my main machine, but I'll drop you a PM later!


You don't need a ton of voltage for 1t. 6400 c30 1T tight , most Hynix kit needs around 1.43 - 1.48 for this ( On air with cooling fan) . My Dimms kan run 6400 c30 1T with only 1,37VDD on water. However, when switching from 2T to 1T, it's really important to clear cmos,power cycle and train without fastboot. If it fails, press re-train. You can also start with 6200 c30 1T, than switcht up to 6400, but then you need to power cycle when raising frequenzie.

Start with 1,25MC and Auto SA.

Link to my 6400 c30 1T CMO file for z690 Apex. 






6400c30 1T.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## satinghostrider

Carillo said:


> You don't need a ton of voltage for 1t. 6400 c30 1T tight , most Hynix kit needs around 1.43 - 1.48 for this ( On air with cooling fan) . My Dimms kan run 6400 c30 1T with only 1,37VDD on water. However, when switching from 2T to 1T, it's really important to clears cmos,power cycle and train without fastboot. If it fails, press re-train. You can also start with 6200 c30 1T, than switcht up to 6400, but then you need to power cycle when raising frequenzie.


I could boot 6400 as attached at 1T. Of course I'm a noob at memory oc so obviously this isn't stable with the rest of the loose timings. I was only trying to see what I could boot up to for 1T. And I needed 1.45V or 1.47V for this can't recall exactly.


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> You don't need a ton of voltage for 1t. 6400 c30 1T tight , most Hynix kit needs around 1.43 - 1.48 for this ( On air with cooling fan) . My Dimms kan run 6400 c30 1T with only 1,37VDD on water. However, when switching from 2T to 1T, it's really important to clears cmos,power cycle and train without fastboot. If it fails, press re-train. You can also start with 6200 c30 1T, than switcht up to 6400, but then you need to power cycle when raising frequenzie.


Thanks a lot for that pointer. However, as I'm quite new to "serious" memory O/C, would you mind elaborating?

Do you mean clearing CMOS using the back panel button, then load my previously saved BIOS settings, disable fast boot, then shut it down, cold start and then?


----------



## satinghostrider

Carillo said:


> You don't need a ton of voltage for 1t. 6400 c30 1T tight , most Hynix kit needs around 1.43 - 1.48 for this ( On air with cooling fan) . My Dimms kan run 6400 c30 1T with only 1,37VDD on water. However, when switching from 2T to 1T, it's really important to clear cmos,power cycle and train without fastboot. If it fails, press re-train. You can also start with 6200 c30 1T, than switcht up to 6400, but then you need to power cycle when raising frequenzie.
> 
> Start with 1,25MC and Auto SA.
> 
> Link to my 6400 c30 1T CMO file for z690 Apex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6400c30 1T.CMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Thanks @Carillo for this.
Is this on 0086 bios?


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> Thanks a lot for that pointer. However, as I'm quite new to "serious" memory O/C, would you mind elaborating?
> 
> Do you mean clearing CMOS using the back panel button, then load my previously saved BIOS settings, disable fast boot, then shut it down, cold start and then?


Correct. Try my attached CMO file. Maby raise MC to 1,25-1,27, VDD and VDDQ. You can also loosen trcd and trp from 37 to 39 to help reduce volatage needed. But remember, if you do ANY changes after initial training , you need to repeat the process ( CLR cmos and power cycle)


----------



## Carillo

satinghostrider said:


> Thanks @Carillo for this.
> Is this on 0086 bios?


I made this file on 0053, but it's been tested on almost every Apex bios released without issues. I would use 0086 tough, great bios. If i remember correctly, twrrd_SG and DG is set to auto ( you could do 55 and 43 on those without problems)


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> Correct. Try my attached CMO file. Maby raise MC to 1,25-1,27, VDD and VDDQ. You can also loosen trcd and trp from 37 to 39 to help reduce volatage needed. But remember, if you do ANY changes after initial training , you need to repeat the process ( CLR cmos and power cycle)


Cool, very much appreciated! I'll try that this afternoon!  'Power cycling' sounds like a repetitive thing to me, but I guess a shutdown + PSU off for 10s and then power back on will do?


----------



## satinghostrider

Carillo said:


> I made this file on 0053, but it's been tested on almost every Apex bios released without issues. I would use 0086 tough, great bios. If i remember correctly, twrrd_SG and DG is set to auto ( you could do 55 and 43 on those without problems)


Thanks a bunch mate for the showing the light.


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> Cool, very much appreciated! I'll try that this afternoon!  'Power cycling' sounds like a repetitive thing to me, but I guess a shutdown + PSU off for 10s and then power back on will do?


Yes, i need to change my PSU power button anytime soon


----------



## jeiselramos

Carillo said:


> Correct. Try my attached CMO file. Maby raise MC to 1,25-1,27, VDD and VDDQ. You can also loosen trcd and trp from 37 to 39 to help reduce volatage needed. But remember, if you do ANY changes after initial training , you need to repeat the process ( CLR cmos and power cycle)


Is that an Asus issue or CPU training? 
I'm not complaining, I'm doing this way since my first day with z690 apex+ddr5


----------



## Vlados

hynix 4800 2x32 managed to overclock to 6400 30-38-38-40 with 1.435 vdd/vddq dram while passing testmem5 cycle 2 without errors,
I'll post screenshots a little later.
btw does anyone know if 1.435v is safe to use 24/7?


----------



## Nizzen

Vlados said:


> hynix 4800 2x32 dual rank managed to overclock to 6400 30-38-38-40 with 1.435 vdd/vddq dram while passing testmem5 cycle 2 without errors,
> I'll post screenshots a little later.
> btw does anyone know if 1.435v is safe to use 24/7?


1.65v is safe 😁


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> 1.65v is safe 😁


Just out of curiosity: assuming you're not kidding, where did you get this information?


----------



## fortecosi

Carillo said:


> I made this file on 0053, but it's been tested on almost every Apex bios released without issues. I would use 0086 tough, great bios. If i remember correctly, twrrd_SG and DG is set to auto ( you could do 55 and 43 on those without problems)


Is 0086 newer than 1101? Perhaps, would you use 0086 for Samsung mem too?


----------



## satinghostrider

fortecosi said:


> Is 0086 newer than 1101? Perhaps, would you use 0086 for Samsung mem too?


I feel 0086 trains memory better than 1101. But for Samsung, I'd stick to 0811 if you're running the Asus loaded presets or particularly 1T timings. 1101 no matter what it's hard to stabilise 1T on Samsung. I didn't try my Samsung on 0086. Having said that, if you're gonna XMP, then I suppose 1101 is fine but don't take my word for it.


----------



## mattxx88

r[QUOTE="roooo said:


> Just out of curiosity: assuming you're not kidding, where did you get this information?


I think I read something about this in the manufacturer's lifetime warranty conditions


----------



## Carillo

It is impossible to say this or that voltage is safe. And what does SAFE even mean ? Safest thing is to shut down the computer. Everything depends on the operating temperature. No matter where and who you ask, you will never get the same answer. I know people aksing this question hopes to hear what they want to hear " sure 2,5 VDD 100% safe, will live for ever" I do not think anyone at this time knows the long-term effect of a given voltage. He who lives will see. Only one knows for sure, the lower the better  I use 1.60VDD for daily settings and if it should presumably damage some of my components, then I will inform about it here.


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> Just out of curiosity: assuming you're not kidding, where did you get this information?


A bit over spec is allways safe IF its cooed enough 
Temperature is the key.


----------



## centvalny

Carillo said:


> Correct. Try my attached CMO file. Maby raise MC to 1,25-1,27, VDD and VDDQ. You can also loosen trcd and trp from 37 to 39 to help reduce volatage needed. But remember, if you do ANY changes after initial training , you need to repeat the process ( CLR cmos and power cycle)


Also set tRPRE 1 for hynix or 2 for samsung and dram clk period 83 for 6400 (89/6600 and 91/6933) might help.


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> Yes, i need to change my PSU power button anytime soon


Well, your profile got me significantly further than my previous attempts, but in the end reproducibility and thus stability absolutely ruin the show.

What I did: shut down my machine, held Clear CMOS for 10s, started machine, loaded your CMO, shutdown, powered off the PSU, powered back on 15s later, started and was able to boot into Windows. Yay! But then Karhu errored out at 105% which was - well, expected.

I went back to BIOS, adjusted voltages, repeated the whole process several times, getting Karhu to run longer every time. I arrived at VDDs 1.47V, SA Offset+0.06V and MC 1.25V - the sweetspot I had found a couple of days before for 6400C32T1, but which did not work anymore after. That got me to a whopping 2650% in Karhu until it threw an error.

Alright, never got that far with 1T! I then tried to further tweak voltages in various combinations (VDDs to 1.48, MC to 1.27V) and tried tRPRE=1 and DRAM Clk Period 83 as well. I never made it further than 189% in Karhu. Then I thought ok - give it a break, had the machine off for half an hour and then returned to the profile that previously got me to 2650%. To no f*** avail! Karhu will error out at 119% or less. Reproducibly. Temperatures are well below 40C, usually around 27..35C. I reduced cores/cache to 48/40 to rule that out.

I'm quite sure I'm not the only one experiencing this ...um... ugly memory effect, so how do you guys deal with it?

Anyway, thanks a million for the CMO. It definitely got me further, but not much less frustrated ;-)


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

At what speed will I see a difference in real world performance from 6400c28 1t?


----------



## centvalny

roooo said:


> I'm quite sure I'm not the only one experiencing this ...um... ugly memory effect, so how do you guys deal with it?


----------



## roooo

centvalny said:


> View attachment 2547250


LOL yeah, got it  
Anyway - I'm a mem OC noob, so is there a way my testing procedure can be improved? I mean when I cold start, it trains, then posts and proceeds to the boot menu (I have a multi-boot setup). Is it possible to have the Apex train longer/more thoroughly in layman's speak?


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> A bit over spec is allways safe IF its cooed enough
> Temperature is the key.
> View attachment 2547238





roooo said:


> Well, your profile got me significantly further than my previous attempts, but in the end reproducibility and thus stability absolutely ruin the show.
> 
> What I did: shut down my machine, held Clear CMOS for 10s, started machine, loaded your CMO, shutdown, powered off the PSU, powered back on 15s later, started and was able to boot into Windows. Yay! But then Karhu errored out at 105% which was - well, expected.
> 
> I went back to BIOS, adjusted voltages, repeated the whole process several times, getting Karhu to run longer every time. I arrived at VDDs 1.47V, SA Offset+0.06V and MC 1.25V - the sweetspot I had found a couple of days before for 6400C32T1, but which did not work anymore after. That got me to a whopping 2650% in Karhu until it threw an error.
> 
> Alright, never got that far with 1T! I then tried to further tweak voltages in various combinations (VDDs to 1.48, MC to 1.27V) and tried tRPRE=1 and DRAM Clk Period 83 as well. I never made it further than 189% in Karhu. Then I thought ok - give it a break, had the machine off for half an hour and then returned to the profile that previously got me to 2650%. To no f*** avail! Karhu will error out at 119% or less. Reproducibly. Temperatures are well below 40C, usually around 27..35C. I reduced cores/cache to 48/40 to rule that out.
> 
> I'm quite sure I'm not the only one experiencing this ...um... ugly memory effect, so how do you guys deal with it?
> 
> Anyway, thanks a million for the CMO. It definitely got me further, but not much less frustrated ;-)


I know the fealing dude! Been there myself. There is no direct solution as far as I know , you just have to retry over and over. Thrust your settings. Try switching bios chip or reflash current , set 1,48VDD/Q and repeat. The less you change settings the better. I feel the motherboard and memory sticks have some kind of memory , that is hard to erase , like when you come to the point it keeps throwing errors it just keeps on doing that no matter what you do. Only solution is patience and a lot of facepalming. You also actually retry to much , than this will happen :


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> I know the fealing dude! Been there myself. There is no direct solution as far as I know , you just have to retry over and over. Thrust your settings. Try switching bios chip or reflash current , set 1,48VDD/Q and repeat. The less you change settings the better. I feel the motherboard and memory sticks have some kind of memory , that is hard to erase , like when you come to the point it keeps throwing errors it just keeps on doing that no matter what you do. Only solution is patience and a lot of facepalming. You also actually retry to much , than this will happen :
> View attachment 2547254


Ouch. I hope that's not the one of your current Apex?

Anyway, thanks for your feedback. I'll have tweaking rest for a couple of days and go with my 6400C30 2T profile for the time being...


----------



## Alexshunter

Guys is there a way to overclock the memory in fly, without entering the bios and booting into windows with each settings?


----------



## roooo

Alexshunter said:


> Guys is there a way to overclock the memory in fly, without entering the bios and booting into windows with each settings?


You can adjust mem timings with Asus MemTweakIt - but I suggest reading through the last two pages of this thread to gain an understandig of why this is probably not the most sensible choice ;-)


----------



## Vlados

Hynix 2x32 4800
CPU vdd2/vddq 1.3V
dram vdd/vddq 1.435 in bios
SA 1.2V
I had to increase tras by 2 times for stability, but I did not notice any difference in performance. I also noticed that without using e-core, the memory gets very hot, possibly due to overclocked cache (4.6)


----------



## Brandur

Since I am a bit disappointed with my Apex (one of the first Apex Boards that were sold in Germany), I am thinking of selling it and going with a different mainboard brand. Which mainboard would you reccomend, that has the least issues with just loading XMP?


----------



## Section31

Yeah i have been having issues with Apex and Ram/System Stability. Looks like i am stuck with it till next major change.


----------



## Nizzen

Brandur said:


> Since I am a bit disappointed with my Apex (one of the first Apex Boards that were sold in Germany), I am thinking of selling it and going with a different mainboard brand. Which mainboard would you reccomend, that has the least issues with just loading XMP?


Any DDR4 board 🤣


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Any DDR4 board 🤣


Yeah, true - unfortunately. Just launchend MS Flight Simulator 2020 with my TM5 and Karhu stable mem OC and - BAM! Nice blue desktop background you got there...hrhrhr....


----------



## db000

roooo said:


> Yeah, true - unfortunately. Just launchend MS Flight Simulator 2020 with my TM5 and Karhu stable mem OC and - BAM! Nice blue desktop background you got there...hrhrhr....


Maybe MSFS maxed GPU usage and caused higher temps in case? Temps on sticks?


----------



## roooo

db000 said:


> Maybe MSFS maxed GPU usage and caused higher temps in case? Temps on sticks?


Nope, temps are in check, not exceeding 40..42C. My previous Gskill 6000C36 kit (Samsung) is way more temperature sensitive and played nicely at 6000C32 semi-tight.


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> Nope, temps are in check, not exceeding 40..42C. My previous Gskill 6000C36 kit (Samsung) is way more temperature sensitive and played nicely at 6000C32 semi-tight.


I need higher SA to be gamestable. Atleast in Avx games like Battlefield.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> I need higher SA to be gamestable. Atleast in Avx games like Battlefield.


Ok, good point. So you're moving from Offset+0.06 to 1.1V or higher?


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> Ok, good point. So you're moving from Offset+0.06 to 1.1V or higher?


Yes, try higher SA


----------



## db000

Anyone have link for 0086 BIOS?


----------



## bscool

db000 said:


> Anyone have link for 0086 BIOS?







__





ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX | APEX 14






community.hwbot.org


----------



## db000

Many thanks @bscool! 

G.Skill 6400CL32 is due tomorrow 😎


----------



## bscool

db000 said:


> Many thanks @bscool!
> 
> G.Skill 6400CL32 is due tomorrow 😎


Post back how it works. I have some 6400 on order and still on the fence about canceling order and staying on z690 Strix d4 I have now. Dont need ddr5 just wanna play 😁


----------



## borant

-


----------



## Benni231990

I have a dumb Problem

Today i installed the New bios 1003 for the strix f and now i made the aida64 benchmark and i have less Performance but i didnt change any options

I use 6000 Cl40 gskill @6200 34-36-36-52 and full sub timmings

Before with bios 0811

102.xxx/98.xxx/96.xxx/56.6-56.7ns

Now with bios 1001

97.xxx/95.xxx/93.xxx/66.5ns

How is that possible?


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> Ok, good point. So you're moving from Offset+0.06 to 1.1V or higher?


Been testing all night with 6400C30.
At 6400C30, the best thing to do at least for me is keep SA on auto.
Vanguard random freezes with SA offset + 0.06. Even manual setting to 1 or 1.1V isn't stable in games despite TestMem5 passing but I fail Kahru pretty early. I now keep it on auto and it's dice. Testmem5 and Kahru clears no issues.


----------



## TresNugget

I FINALLY have mine stable on 0086 at 6400 at xmp timings. 1101 I got 16+ hour karhu stable before I stopped it, at .07 offset SA and 1.24v mc. After verifying 6200 stable at xmp with 1.25v mc I decided to try 1.24v mc 6400. I didn't clear CMOS, I just changed the voltage and from 6200 to 6400 and it was rock solid in karhu for 16+ hours. Decided to pull power to see if it was a fluke and let it retrain and it errors immediately. Tried same settings on bios 2 with 0086 and it passed 6 cycles on tm5, pulled power to retrain and it's been going for 6+ hours on karhu. I guess my kit didn't like 1.25v on mc and 1.2 just wasn't enough. I haven't tried gaming yet so I imagine I'll have to bump up the SA but we'll see.


----------



## satinghostrider

Benni231990 said:


> I have a dumb Problem
> 
> Today i installed the New bios 1003 for the strix f and now i made the aida64 benchmark and i have less Performance but i didnt change any options
> 
> I use 6000 Cl40 gskill @6200 34-36-36-52 and full sub timmings
> 
> Before with bios 0811
> 
> 102.xxx/98.xxx/96.xxx/56.6-56.7ns
> 
> Now with bios 1001
> 
> 97.xxx/95.xxx/93.xxx/66.5ns
> 
> How is that possible?


I have found 0811 works much better for Samsung at the moment especially when tweaking manually.


----------



## affxct

satinghostrider said:


> I have found 0811 works much better for Samsung at the moment especially when tweaking manually.


On 1003, my IMC VDD (VDD2) finally defaults to match DRAM VDD now and I think it finally scales. Tbh it’s actually incredible it finally works above 1.25.


----------



## opt33

Just got Corsair hynix 6200c36-39 few hours ago and not much better than my samsung 6000u, though temps ~10c lower with same voltage. I should have bought the better binned gskill 6400c32 kit, just better odds with that kit.

First run, 6400c30-37cr1 49.8 ns, 1.6vdd/1.32mc/1.15 sa, 1 error at 4mins TM5, temps 50'sc. 1.55/1.57v quick errors. (samsung wouldnt train 6400c301t with 1.6)

Second run, 6400c32-37cr1, 50.8ns latency, 1.53v vdd/1.31mc/1.15 sa for 20 mins tm5 no errors (didnt run longer)....1.5vdd error at 6 mins (scaling bad compared to 6200c32)

Third run (pic) 6200c32-37cr1 52.3ns latency, 1.41vdd/1.26mc/1.12sa 1 hr tm5, tested to compare to my 24/7 samsung which required similar voltage for similar settings.

next run 6400c32-39cr1 and probably end up using it if requires 1.5v or less... then either getting gskill 6400c32 which should have in first place or maybe wait a few to see what comes out.

edit: 6400c32-39 cr1 way more stable than 6400c32-37, so far 1.47vdd 20 mins no errors, need to try 6400c30-39.


----------



## gecko991

I need a set of the new Gskill 6400 too.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

opt33 said:


> Just got Corsair hynix 6200c36-39 few hours ago and not much better than my samsung 6000u, though temps ~10c lower with same voltage. I should have bought the better binned gskill 6400c32 kit, just better odds with that kit.
> 
> First run, 6400c30-37cr1 49.8 ns, 1.6vdd/1.32mc/1.15 sa, 1 error at 4mins TM5, temps 50'sc. 1.55/1.57v quick errors. (samsung wouldnt train 6400c301t with 1.6)
> 
> Second run, 6400c32-37cr1, 50.8ns latency, 1.53v vdd/1.31mc/1.15 sa for 20 mins tm5 no errors (didnt run longer)....1.5vdd error at 6 mins (scaling bad compared to 6200c32)
> 
> Third run (pic) 6200c32-37cr1 52.3ns latency, 1.41vdd/1.26mc/1.12sa 1 hr tm5, tested to compare to my 24/7 samsung which required similar voltage for similar settings.
> 
> next run 6400c32-39cr1 and probably end up using it if requires 1.5v or less... then either getting gskill 6400c32 which should have in first place or maybe wait a few to see what comes out.
> 
> edit: 6400c32-39 cr1 way more stable than 6400c32-37, so far 1.47vdd 20 mins no errors, need to try 6400c30-39.
> 
> View attachment 2547330


not bad at all if you are stable at 6400 c32, you are getting more or less what you would have with gkill 6400.
Do you have excellent temp, do you have the rams on liquid or with fan on front?


----------



## opt33

IIISLIDEIII said:


> not bad at all if you are stable at 6400 c32, you are getting more or less what you would have with gkill 6400.
> Do you have excellent temp, do you have the rams on liquid or with fan on front?


air cooled with silent 90mm fan, rest system watercooled just not ram. hynix runs 10c cooler than my samsung at same settings.

yeah 6400c32-39cr1 likely stable with 1.47vdd which isnt too far off gskill, but with gskill 6400c32-39 binned to 1.4v better chance of more headroom (unless get one of the poorer samples in that bin). I'll probably wait and see if something better comes out.


----------



## Jeges

Brandur said:


> Since I am a bit disappointed with my Apex (one of the first Apex Boards that were sold in Germany), I am thinking of selling it and going with a different mainboard brand. Which mainboard would you reccomend, that has the least issues with just loading XMP?


Same story here! I already sold it and bought an aorus master it's cheaper and offers way more memory compatibility


----------



## Sayenah

Brandur said:


> Since I am a bit disappointed with my Apex (one of the first Apex Boards that were sold in Germany), I am thinking of selling it and going with a different mainboard brand. Which mainboard would you reccomend, that has the least issues with just loading XMP?


Look into the UnifyX. Tried two Apex boards which failed stability at vanilla XMP on two kits (t-force 6400c40 and g.skill 6000c36). Got a UnifyX and everything is rock solid at XMP on the t-force kit as well as the new 6400c32 G.Skill kit


----------



## satinghostrider

Sayenah said:


> Look into the UnifyX. Tried two Apex boards which failed stability at vanilla XMP on two kits (t-force 6400c40 and g.skill 6000c36). Got a UnifyX and everything is rock solid at XMP on the t-force kit as well as the new 6400c32 G.Skill kit


In all honesty, if you are willing to put in time and effort to fine tune DDR5, the Apex is going to be the board. But it is also more dependent on your other components like Ram + CPU. I've given up going 1T as I think my CPU (SP84) just can't handle it. I can run 6400C30 2T with ease after fine-tuning the whole of last night to get it stable. Getting around 51.2ns with E-cores disabled.

The XMP needs work on Apex or probably other Asus boards as well compared to MSI which is plug and play. But running stock XMP even on the best kit now is still going to be well over 60ns in latency. I'd much rather go through the steep learning curve and getting everything granularly fine tuned for stability and performance. I'm sure most don't want to go through this as it's time consuming and extremely frustrating. But when it works, and you realise you have to touch less stuff to get it stable and then finally get it stable, you'll forget the frustration.

Initially I was also thinking something was wrong with my board or even the bios, but 2T seems relatively easy. I probably would try higher after a week or so to confirm this 6400C30 2T setup works reliably. But for now, this is faster than my Samsung 6000C32 1T in many ways. Only Testmem5 I found the 6000C32 1T completes the cycle faster by around 15s or so.

Credits to @roooo and @Carillo for establishing a baseline for me to start with and working from there. And @Nizzen for stating in his earlier posts that Hynix needs more SA for AVX games. I had issues with vanguard freezing randomly and setting SA to Auto worked. Even SA at 0.95V-1.1V did not work as well as SA at Offset + 0.06V. Oddly, TM5 will pass even after 1 hour but Karhu didn't even make it to 15% on the lower SA voltages.

I can also confirm that this Gskill 6400C32 kit runs about 10 degrees cooler than my first batch of Samsung G.skills I received despite having no thermal pad. Hynix FTW!


----------



## Sayenah

satinghostrider said:


> In all honesty, if you are willing to put in time and effort to fine tune DDR5, the Apex is going to be the board. But it is also more dependent on your other components like Ram + CPU. I've given up going 1T as I think my CPU (SP84) just can't handle it. I can run 6400C30 2T with ease after fine-tuning the whole of last night to get it stable. Getting around 51.2ns with E-cores disabled.
> 
> The XMP needs work on Apex or probably other Asus boards as well compared to MSI which is plug and play. But running stock XMP even on the best kit now is still going to be well over 60ns in latency. I'd much rather go through the steep learning curve and getting everything granularly fine tuned for stability and performance. I'm sure most don't want to go through this as it's time consuming and extremely frustrating. But when it works, and you realise you have to touch less stuff to get it stable and then finally get it stable, you'll forget the frustration.
> 
> Initially I was also thinking something was wrong with my board or even the bios, but 2T seems relatively easy. I probably would try higher after a week or so to confirm this 6400C30 2T setup works reliably. But for now, this is faster than my Samsung 6000C32 1T in many ways. Only Testmem5 I found the 6000C32 1T completes the cycle faster by around 15s or so.
> 
> Credits to @roooo and @Carillo for establishing a baseline for me to start with and working from there. And @Nizzen for stating in his earlier posts that Hynix needs more SA for AVX games. I had issues with vanguard freezing randomly and setting SA to Auto worked. Even SA at 0.95V-1.1V did not work as well as SA at Offset + 0.06V. Oddly, TM5 will pass even after 1 hour but Karhu didn't even make it to 15% on the lower SA voltages.
> 
> I can also confirm that this Gskill 6400C32 kit runs about 10 degrees cooler than my first batch of Samsung G.skills I received despite having no thermal pad. Hynix FTW!


what a great response!! This is exactly where I landed at as well; the Apex isn’t necessarily a “bad board”, but it is a board targeted at those who are willing to learn. Vanilla XMP may be worse off on this board (and that’s where I call bad design or bad QA, or abject laziness on Asus part since MDI got it right), for sure, but that doesn’t mean one can’t fine tune the Apex. For vanilla XMP and painless plug and play, nothing beats the UnifyX user experience currently. 

i also think that I may have gotten two bad boards in a row from the same batch since I bought them from the same store. Literally would not boot at XMP.

but I am with you that if one were a tinkerer one would enjoy optimizing the Apex more than anything else; it certainly has great potential. This is why users like @Nizzen has had great experiences with this board.

Hey despite how much I dump on the Apex, I have another 12900k build at my cabin waiting for an Apex being delivered tomorrow haha! So, right there with you on the learning part! Great, helpful community here as well.


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> I can also confirm that this Gskill 6400C32 kit runs about 10 degrees cooler than my first batch of Samsung G.skills I received despite having no thermal pad. Hynix FTW!


Second that, roughly 10C less for me as well compared to the GSkill 6000C36 kit, this is on air.


----------



## satinghostrider

Sayenah said:


> what a great response!! This is exactly where I landed at as well; the Apex isn’t necessarily a “bad board”, but it is a board targeted at those who are willing to learn. Vanilla XMP may be worse off on this board (and that’s where I call bad design or bad QA, or abject laziness on Asus part since MDI got it right), for sure, but that doesn’t mean one can’t fine tune the Apex. For vanilla XMP and painless plug and play, nothing beats the UnifyX user experience currently.
> 
> i also think that I may have gotten two bad boards in a row from the same batch since I bought them from the same store. Literally would not boot at XMP.
> 
> but I am with you that if one were a tinkerer one would enjoy optimizing the Apex more than anything else; it certainly has great potential. This is why users like @Nizzen has had great experiences with this board.
> 
> Hey despite how much I dump on the Apex, I have another 12900k build at my cabin waiting for an Apex being delivered tomorrow haha! So, right there with you on the learning part! Great, helpful community here as well.


Seems like the design of Apex boards rewards good CPUs and RAMs. It just makes it easier. In a perfect world, this is not the case. So I think that's why even stuff like XMP will take time to get it perfect with various setups and CPU+RAM bins.

The CPU OC on Asus is still the strongest pulling factor for me especially OCTVB. It works very well and if Asus can sort out this stuff with XMP, I think the board will be the board to have. Asus even broke the record for fastest DDR5 today on the Apex though it's on LN2. You are only as powerful as your weakness.









G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 memory overclocked to 9560 Mbps using LN2 - VideoCardz.com


G.Skill Trident Z5 memory overclocked to 4778 MHz (9560 Mbps) Extreme overclocker from Hong Kong “lupin_no_musume” scores a new world record in DDR5 overclocking. It looks like the DDR5-10000 world record is just around the corner. A new world record has just been broken according to the entry...




videocardz.com


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> Asus even broke the record for fastest DDR5 today on the Apex though it's on LN2. You are only as powerful as your weakness.


You've got a project for the coming weekend now, I guess....


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> You've got a project for the coming weekend now, I guess....


Far from it I'm a total Memory n00b. 😊


----------



## Sayenah

satinghostrider said:


> Seems like the design of Apex boards rewards good CPUs and RAMs. It just makes it easier. In a perfect world, this is not the case. So I think that's why even stuff like XMP will take time to get it perfect with various setups and CPU+RAM bins.
> 
> The CPU OC on Asus is still the strongest pulling factor for me especially OCTVB. It works very well and if Asus can sort out this stuff with XMP, I think the board will be the board to have. Asus even broke the record for fastest DDR5 today on the Apex though it's on LN2. You are only as powerful as your weakness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 memory overclocked to 9560 Mbps using LN2 - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 memory overclocked to 4778 MHz (9560 Mbps) Extreme overclocker from Hong Kong “lupin_no_musume” scores a new world record in DDR5 overclocking. It looks like the DDR5-10000 world record is just around the corner. A new world record has just been broken according to the entry...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


Again, I agree. Seems to be the trend I have noticed as well. Most folks who have had great luck with the Apex tend to have hand picked CPUs or have won the silicone lottery. Most, not all. I was also expecting a lot more trouble with the new 6400c32 kit, but many have either tweaked it right from the get go or have run straight XMP. I think this may be due to what you are saying about the Apex doing well with better binned CPU and RAM. 

well, seems like the Apex will marry well with the upcoming 12900KS then!


----------



## satinghostrider

Sayenah said:


> Again, I agree. Seems to be the trend I have noticed as well. Most folks who have had great luck with the Apex tend to have hand picked CPUs or have won the silicone lottery. Most, not all. I was also expecting a lot more trouble with the new 6400c32 kit, but many have either tweaked it right from the get go or have run straight XMP. I think this may be due to what you are saying about the Apex doing well with better binned CPU and RAM.
> 
> well, seems like the Apex will marry well with the upcoming 12900KS then!


Ppl are gonna bin the 12900ks as well. Bet my last dollar on it! But definitely the better binned components simply does wonders on the Apex. Though in a perfect world, this is far from realistic unless you're gonna bin CPUs and RAMs and probably a small group of people will go all out to do this. Either that or you're lucky with your gear.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Makes me wonder how my combo would do on a Apex ...


----------



## satinghostrider

bl4ckdot said:


> Makes me wonder how my combo would do on a Apex ...


----------



## centvalny

Test 6400c32 1.4Vdd/dq


----------



## marco.is.not.80

Just reading the last couple of pages and was honestly surprised to read about people who purchased an Apex who weren't really interested in spending long hours unlocking mysteries that will enable them to run their CPU and memory at the very highest curve of their potential. I don't think I ever purchased one of the boards below with the expectation that it would "just work". Asus needs to fix their marketing to make it more obvious so many of you aren't wasting your time doing stuff you don't really like. Or so it seems to me.


----------



## Simkin

Is the Asus Hynix 6200 BIOS Profile CL32? Is this an Ok starting poing to start off with? 

I have the Team Group 6200 CL38 Hynix kit, so im thinking to start off with 6200 and CL32. 

Anyone wants to share something to start off with? Dont need supertight timings, something semi-tight.


----------



## 7empe

To all *F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK* users. If you wonder if there is a chance that your stick will die sooner or later - monitor the SPD Hub Temperature. If one of the sticks is much warmer than the other, it is highly probable that it will be gone soon due to faulty SPD hub.

In my case, sticks were watercooled by EKWB waterblock.
All the fans on 3x360 rads are pushing an air outside of the chassis, so the temperature inside the chassis is around 22-24C.
During TM5 at 1.51V VDD one of stick had SPD temp at 29C while the second at 36+C.


----------



## satinghostrider

Simkin said:


> Is the Asus Hynix 6200 BIOS Profile CL32? Is this an Ok starting poing to start off with?
> 
> I have the Team Group 6200 CL38 Hynix kit, so im thinking to start off with 6200 and CL32.
> 
> Anyone wants to share something to start off with? Dont need supertight timings, something semi-tight.


No it's 34 I think. Just change it to 32-35-35-52 and tweak your voltages based on your setup. I'd advise you to set SA on auto first when stabilising.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> To all *F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK* users. If you wonder if there is a chance that your stick will die sooner or later - monitor the SPD Hub Temperature. If one of the sticks is much warmer than the other, it is highly probable that it will be gone soon due to faulty SPD hub.
> 
> In my case, sticks were watercooled by EKWB waterblock.
> All the fans on 3x360 rads are pushing an air outside of the chassis, so the temperature inside the chassis is around 22-24C.
> During TM5 at 1.51V VDD one of stick had SPD temp at 29C while the second at 36+C.


What exactly is the SPD Hub and how does it influence the chip’s longevity. Just a bit crazy to think about.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> What exactly is the SPD Hub and how does it influence the chip’s longevity. Just a bit crazy to think about.


It's a small chip near the PMIC, responsible for DIMM identification (memory size, number of banks, JEDEC timings, XMP timings - if available). If it does not work, BIOS does not recognize the stick. Equivalent to not having a stick inserted at all.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> It's a small chip near the PMIC, responsible for DIMM identification (memory size, number of banks, JEDEC timings, XMP timings - if available). If it does not work, BIOS does not recognize the stick. Equivalent to not having a stick inserted at all.


Holy crap… At the moment I haven’t noticed anything like that, but I’ll definitely keep an eye out. Just when I got more comfortable running higher voltages for daily use, this kinda makes me want to back off again to conserve my sticks haha.


----------



## asdkj1740

7empe said:


> To all *F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK* users. If you wonder if there is a chance that your stick will die sooner or later - monitor the SPD Hub Temperature. If one of the sticks is much warmer than the other, it is highly probable that it will be gone soon due to faulty SPD hub.
> 
> In my case, sticks were watercooled by EKWB waterblock.
> All the fans on 3x360 rads are pushing an air outside of the chassis, so the temperature inside the chassis is around 22-24C.
> During TM5 at 1.51V VDD one of stick had SPD temp at 29C while the second at 36+C.


i got one stick that went up to 50c but another stayed at 38c lately. i wish one of them die soon.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> i got one stick that went up to 50c but another stayed at 38c lately. i wish one of them die soon.


You want a refund? I’m reluctant to say it but I’ve kinda begun to really like my kit. I really hope I don’t begin to see it but I’m fearful this might be a function of G.SKILL improperly cooling other components on the PCB.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> You want a refund? I’m reluctant to say it but I’ve kinda begun to really like my kit. I really hope I don’t begin to see it but I’m fearful this might be a function of G.SKILL improperly cooling other components on the PCB.


i dont feel good to sell a kit that seems to be problematic.
if it was dead, i would sell the rma replacement (brand new unopened, certified by gskill, go f gskill if problems existed but not me).

gskill is not the only dram vendor having no thermal pad for pmic spd area, so calling it improperly cooled seems improper. 
ppl here like oem bare sticks.


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> i got one stick that went up to 50c but another stayed at 38c lately. i wish one of them die soon.



Another symptoms are DIMM data sensors disappearing and reappearing in HWINFO


----------



## asdkj1740

7empe said:


> Another symptoms are DIMM data sensors disappearing and reappearing in HWINFO


i had one kit that lost pmic data like voltages and failed to boot with xmp profile.
that area seems to be a red zone to these particular models with samsung dies.


----------



## snakeeyes111

6800 on smooth voltage


----------



## Nizzen

snakeeyes111 said:


> View attachment 2547532
> 
> 
> 6800 on smooth voltage


Nice job! Now play Battlefield V or 2142 for 2 Hours. If it's stable, you nailed it


----------



## dr.silkyworm

Hey guys I currently am waiting on my RMA'd Asus z690 Maximus Hero.. Started with Corsair CMT32GX5M2B5200C38, but now purchased and have three kits of the following thinking I may swap the Corsair 5200C38 out. The first one is on the qvl and the second one isn't but is shown as "compatible I guess on the G. Skill website". The kits are F5-6000u3636e16gx2-tz5rk and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK.. , and another 2 kits of CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 not in the qvl. I bought 2 of each thinking I could fill my four slots but I hear it's not that simple.. is that the case? Also any recommendations on what kit would be the best, I'm a novice at most stuff. But when it comes to memory overclockling/compatibility with my board is where my knowledge kind of hits a dead end.. Any help would be appreciated, first time user on this website.. Need to return these kits pretty soon as well.. Thanks in advance 

12900k and Asus z690 Hero


----------



## Sayenah

dr.silkyworm said:


> Hey guys I currently am waiting on my RMA'd Asus z690 Maximus Hero.. Started with Corsair CMT32GX5M2B5200C38, but now purchased and have two kits of the following G. Skill thinking I may swap the first one is on the qvl and the second one isn't but is shown as "compatible I guess on the G. Skill website". The kits are F5-6000u3636e16gx2-tz5rk and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK.. I bought 2 of each thinking I could fill my four slots but I hear it's not that simple.. Also any recommendations on what kit would be the best, I'm a novice at most stuff. But when it comes to memory overclockling/compatibility with my board is where my knowledge kind of hits a dead end.. Any help would be appreciated, first time user on this website.. 12900k and Asus z690 Hero


Please return the two kits of 6000C36, and one kit of the 6400C32.

In other words: Only keep one of 6400C32. Then you sit and pray that Asus gets their s*** together and fix XMP

OR you learn to enjoy tinkering more than gaming. Frankly, if you want out of the box stability, don’t bother with ASUS boards unless you are willing to spend time more tinkering with RAM for a few stress test wins, than actually gaming.

OR you get an MSI UnifyX and go back to gaming with that 6400C32 G.Skill set with out-of-the-box *working* XMP


----------



## Nizzen

Sayenah said:


> Please return the two kits of 6000C36, and one kit of the 6400C32.
> 
> In other words: Only keep one of 6400C32. Then you sit and pray that Asus gets their s*** together and fix XMP
> 
> OR you learn to enjoy tinkering more than gaming. Frankly, if you want out of the box stability, don’t bother with ASUS boards unless you are willing to spend time more tinkering with RAM for a few stress test wins, than actually gaming.
> 
> OR you get an MSI UnifyX and go back to gaming with that 6400C32 G.Skill set with out-of-the-box *working* XMP


This isn't XMP.net 🤠 💯


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> This isn't XMP.net 🤠 💯


True. But on the other hand I assume you're expecting to run your 12900K at Intel's stated specs without having to tweak vcore & loadlines, too?


----------



## opt33

corsair hynix 6200c36-39

6400c32-39cr1 Tm5 45 mins no errors with 1.32mc/1.20sa/1.47vdd/vddq last night, and an hour tm5 this am 6400c32-37cr1 with higher voltages 1.35mc/1.24sa/1.48vdd/vddq, and no issues memtest overnight with settings in between, now on to test gaming.

I think my samsung 6400c32t1 failed at games either from temp with high trefi or mem controller not up to it (sp93cpu), or sa/mc too low, so cut trefi in half and have higher voltages ready to try if lower voltages fail games. If it ends up being my mem controller, next time I upgrade ram, hope 12900ks out.

If this is game stable, then will walk trfc down, raise trefi, if still stable, walk down volts, just want to find the culprit without annoying games too much, though may just be samsung wasnt up to it.


----------



## Sayenah

Nizzen said:


> This isn't XMP.net 🤠 💯


Of course it isn’t. Honestly, inspired by you all, I have started punishing my memory too… it is kinda hot. I even got an Apex board (for a second build) for some memory BDSM.


----------



## neurokirurgi

7empe said:


> To all *F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK* users. If you wonder if there is a chance that your stick will die sooner or later - monitor the SPD Hub Temperature. If one of the sticks is much warmer than the other, it is highly probable that it will be gone soon due to faulty SPD hub.
> 
> In my case, sticks were watercooled by EKWB waterblock.
> All the fans on 3x360 rads are pushing an air outside of the chassis, so the temperature inside the chassis is around 22-24C.
> During TM5 at 1.51V VDD one of stick had SPD temp at 29C while the second at 36+C.


Is this based on a sample size of one kit?

Whatever is the case, G.skill dropped the ball leaving out the PMIC thermal pad. I guess if enough of these fail, whatever minuscule material bill savings will be spent on handling more RMAs.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

Nizzen said:


> This isn't XMP.net 🤠 💯


no doubt we are talking about overclocking and it would not make much sense to buy a card like apex to keep everything in stock .... lol
but even just out of curiosity, there are some apex owners here who have tried and seen his gskill 6400c32 start on an xmp profile and have them also stable without touching anything?


----------



## Sayenah

IIISLIDEIII said:


> no doubt we are talking about overclocking and it would not make much sense to buy a card like apex to keep everything in stock .... lol
> but even just out of curiosity, there are some apex owners here who have tried and seen his gskill 6400c32 start on an xmp profile and have them also stable without touching anything?


“lol” 

I don’t think you are getting this. The Apex should be able to handle vanilla stock XMP like the Extreme and Hero. All those motherboards have a tough time with vanilla XMP, and there are no excuses for not being handling that.


----------



## CptSpig

IIISLIDEIII said:


> no doubt we are talking about overclocking and it would not make much sense to buy a card like apex to keep everything in stock .... lol
> but even just out of curiosity, there are some apex owners here who have tried and seen his gskill 6400c32 start on an xmp profile and have them also stable without touching anything?





Sayenah said:


> “lol”
> 
> I don’t think you are getting this. The Apex should be able to handle vanilla stock XMP like the Extreme and Hero. All those motherboards have a tough time with vanilla XMP, and there are no excuses for not being handling that.


Not all CPUs are natively capable of DDR5-6000+, so this is a limitation the user will need to test. If XMP Profile alone does not work, manually set to a lower value until it can. From there you can adjust CPU IMC Voltages to see if you can force stability at a higher DRAM Frequency.


----------



## Sayenah

CptSpig said:


> Not all CPUs are natively capable of DDR5-6000+, so this is a limitation the user will need to test. If XMP Profile alone does not work, manually set to a lower value until it can. From there you can adjust CPU IMC Voltages to see if you can force stability at a higher DRAM Frequency.


agreed, but same CPU flies perfectly fine with vanilla XMP on a UnifyX, while two Apex boards fail to boot. That’s my data point (let’s not grift about uSeR eRrORz here).

Asus has an XMP problem, and that is across the board. No amount of mental gymnastics can fix that, and if this is just terrible hardware design than no amount of BIOS updates will fix that either.

but yes, if one is a tinkerer they can make the Apex work, sure. No arguments there.


----------



## heyitsrud

Hey guys, did a quick google and stumbled on this thread.

I'm running a 12900k with a ddr5 kit ( F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5RS ) on a z690 extreme w/ 1101 BIOS.

Previously had a z690 hero with this kit of ram because it came as a bundle, but unfortunately, my board had the inverted capacitor and had to be recalled. It didn't explode or anything, but I had to return it for safety. For what it's worth, with the hero I was able to enable XMP and didn't have any problems with stability. I didn't memtest with the hero, but for the two weeks that rig was running I didn't have any BSODs.

With the extreme, I have not been successful in achieving the advertised speeds of 6000 on either XMP 1, 2, or even fiddling a little with vdd (1.33 vdd) and vddq (1.35vddq).
I'm a bit new to manually adjusting settings on RAM. The only successful (no errors) runs I've had were at default (no XMP enabled) and reducing 5600 Mhz, which is what I'm running on now.

Has anyone else had problems or success with this kit of ram and getting advertised speeds? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks very much!


----------



## aznsniper911

dr.silkyworm said:


> Hey guys I currently am waiting on my RMA'd Asus z690 Maximus Hero.. Started with Corsair CMT32GX5M2B5200C38, but now purchased and have two kits of the following G. Skill thinking I may swap the first one is on the qvl and the second one isn't but is shown as "compatible I guess on the G. Skill website". The kits are F5-6000u3636e16gx2-tz5rk and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK.. I bought 2 of each thinking I could fill my four slots but I hear it's not that simple.. Also any recommendations on what kit would be the best, I'm a novice at most stuff. But when it comes to memory overclockling/compatibility with my board is where my knowledge kind of hits a dead end.. Any help would be appreciated, first time user on this website.. 12900k and Asus z690 Hero


Its significantly harder and more complex with four sticks, I have four sticks of F5-6000u3636e16g and I hit a hard wall at 5200 with the extreme.


----------



## CptSpig

Sayenah said:


> agreed, but same CPU flies perfectly fine with vanilla XMP on a UnifyX, while two Apex boards fail to boot. That’s my data point (let’s not grift about uSeR eRrORz here).
> 
> Asus has an XMP problem, and that is across the board. No amount of mental gymnastics can fix that, and if this is just terrible hardware design than no amount of BIOS updates will fix that either.
> 
> but yes, if one is a tinkerer they can make the Apex work, sure. No arguments there.


I never use XMP profiles I don't like my drives and FSB being overclocked along with my memory. Like Nizzen said this is not XMP.net!


----------



## Dinnzy

Hey guys, still a noob to advanced memory OCing. Is there a profile to follow for the Gskill Hynix 64 kit? Trying to get my latency to the absolute lowest for Maximum warzone FPS. I’m on an apex with a 3090 sp 89 12000k 99sp p core. E cores off


----------



## 7empe

neurokirurgi said:


> Is this based on a sample size of one kit?
> 
> Whatever is the case, G.skill dropped the ball leaving out the PMIC thermal pad. I guess if enough of these fail, whatever minuscule material bill savings will be spent on handling more RMAs.


5 kits I know of. I had my own pad on PMIC, that's not the case. SPD Hub is a separate chip, nothing to do with PMIC.


----------



## neurokirurgi

7empe said:


> 5 kits I know of. I had my own pad on PMIC, that's not the case. SPD Hub is a separate chip, nothing to do with PMIC.


The SPD hub is right next to the PMIC. If you have a pad on the PMIC covering all the parts, you're also covering the SPD hub.



Sayenah said:


> “lol”
> 
> I don’t think you are getting this. The Apex should be able to handle vanilla stock XMP like the Extreme and Hero. All those motherboards have a tough time with vanilla XMP, and there are no excuses for not being handling that.


It's always the same thing over here with these corporate cheerleaders. Criticize Asus in general (or the Apex in particular), and you get these people trying their best to deflect away from it. There were people actually trying to deflect away from the fact that Z690 Heros were blowing up when we already knew that there were boards out there with components that were mounted the wrong way.


----------



## 7empe

neurokirurgi said:


> The SPD hub is right next to the PMIC. If you have a pad on the PMIC covering all the parts, you're also covering the SPD hub.
> 
> 
> It's always the same thing over here with these corporate cheerleaders. Criticize Asus in general (or the Apex in particular), and you get these people trying their best to deflect away from it. There were people actually trying to deflect away from the fact that Z690 Heros were blowing up when we already knew that there were boards out there with components that were mounted the wrong way.


Yes, pad was covering whole PMIC section, including SPD hub.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

Dinnzy said:


> Hey guys, still a noob to advanced memory OCing. Is there a profile to follow for the Gskill Hynix 64 kit? Trying to get my latency to the absolute lowest for Maximum warzone FPS. I’m on an apex with a 3090 sp 89 12000k 99sp p core. E cores off


on warzone when I deactivate the ecores the fps are halved because obviously this game uses all cores ,so for my experience in that particular game you should enable the ecores.


----------



## db000

I got my 6400CL32 G.Skill today, have played around with it for a few hours now.
XMP worked w/o any issues on 1101. Currently looking for more juice.

Running XMP right now with 6600 2T.
I would love to reach 6600 with decent latency and 100+ across Read/Write/Copy.
Advice greatly appreciated 

F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK


----------



## snakeeyes111

Nizzen said:


> Nice job! Now play Battlefield V or 2142 for 2 Hours. If it's stable, you nailed it


lol it isnt any problem


----------



## sblantipodi

Retry means


marco.is.not.80 said:


> Just reading the last couple of pages and was honestly surprised to read about people who purchased an Apex who weren't really interested in spending long hours unlocking mysteries that will enable them to run their CPU and memory at the very highest curve of their potential. I don't think I ever purchased one of the boards below with the expectation that it would "just work". Asus needs to fix their marketing to make it more obvious so many of you aren't wasting your time doing stuff you don't really like. Or so it seems to me.
> 
> View attachment 2547517
> 
> View attachment 2547518
> 
> View attachment 2547519


What about people who spent two times more for the Extreme to get a mobo that performs way worse in every aspects?


----------



## sblantipodi

We haven't seen Shamino anymore.
It seems that there is no more betas.
Hoped to some improvements in latest BIOSes but it seems that there is no improvements at all with the latest 1102 if not some regression.
I think that Asus can do better, z690 is a rushed platform like many others but this time it's a rushed platform without quality assurance.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

sblantipodi said:


> We haven't seen Shamino anymore.
> It seems that there is no more betas.
> Hoped to some improvements in latest BIOSes but it seems that there is no improvements at all with the latest 1102 if not some regression.
> I think that Asus can do better, z690 is a rushed platform like many others but this time it's a rushed platform without quality assurance.


I’m happy with the bios’ Shamino provided. I appreciate his work very much. I am also happy with Z690. It’s doing fine for me.


----------



## fortecosi

Sayenah said:


> Please return the two kits of 6000C36, and one kit of the 6400C32.
> 
> In other words: Only keep one of 6400C32. Then you sit and pray that Asus gets their s*** together and fix XMP
> 
> OR you learn to enjoy tinkering more than gaming. Frankly, if you want out of the box stability, don’t bother with ASUS boards unless you are willing to spend time more tinkering with RAM for a few stress test wins, than actually gaming.
> 
> OR you get an MSI UnifyX and go back to gaming with that 6400C32 G.Skill set with out-of-the-box *working* XMP


Hey, I am just curious, not my business ofc, but, did you buy Apex to run XMP profiles on it? I am asking because if I am not mistaken, you got Asus, and you seems to be kinda biased with XMP profiles, which does not make sense to me at all. But as I said, not my business, no need to reply if you don´t want to.


----------



## Carillo

MrTOOSHORT said:


> I’m happy with the bios’ Shamino provided. I appreciate his work very much. I am also happy with Z690. It’s doing fine for me.


Totally agree. Reason you hear most whining about Asus boards is because 90% of z690 users have Asus. Yeah it's a new platform, and it has it's flaws. If stability and XMP is your number 1 priority, switch to a ddr4 platform. I have zero stability issues with my z690 Apex board no matter what memory kit i use, and i'm sure the bioses will get even better....


----------



## fortecosi

sblantipodi said:


> We haven't seen Shamino anymore.
> It seems that there is no more betas.
> Hoped to some improvements in latest BIOSes but it seems that there is no improvements at all with the latest 1102 if not some regression.
> I think that Asus can do better, z690 is a rushed platform like many others but this time it's a rushed platform without quality assurance.


If you are an ignorant, not even Shamino can help you out... Sorry, seems you have been rushed too much...


----------



## cstkl1

sblantipodi said:


> We haven't seen Shamino anymore.
> It seems that there is no more betas.
> Hoped to some improvements in latest BIOSes but it seems that there is no improvements at all with the latest 1102 if not some regression.
> I think that Asus can do better, z690 is a rushed platform like many others but this time it's a rushed platform without quality assurance.


cny is the only real break faes in taiwan get in a year. 

so be patient. and @owikh84 has excellent results on samsung 4dimm on extreme/hero/strix D4 and hynix on extreme. 

as i mentioned before adl has imc issues especially now the architecture has two of them. 

beta etc bioses can somewhat solve certain things but the basic sensing and training still depends on cpu lottery and ram chipset lottery 
then comes cooling. 

4800 mhz works for everybody. 
if you are having issues its time you start rmaing something. start with the ram.


----------



## asdkj1740

someone posted this.


----------



## bscool

'


Sayenah said:


> “lol”
> 
> I don’t think you are getting this. The Apex should be able to handle vanilla stock XMP like the Extreme and Hero. All those motherboards have a tough time with vanilla XMP, and there are no excuses for not being handling that.


But it has been like that forever. I have gskill ddr4 4600c18 and 4800c18 kits that will not run xmp on z390, z490 etc even though as QVL. These top bins have always needed manual tweaking. On dd4 you see it all the time people get 4266 or even 4400 kits and they cant run them with XMP.


----------



## bscool

Sayenah said:


> agreed, but same CPU flies perfectly fine with vanilla XMP on a UnifyX, while two Apex boards fail to boot. That’s my data point (let’s not grift about uSeR eRrORz here).
> 
> Asus has an XMP problem, and that is across the board. No amount of mental gymnastics can fix that, and if this is just terrible hardware design than no amount of BIOS updates will fix that either.
> 
> but yes, if one is a tinkerer they can make the Apex work, sure. No arguments there.


I usually buy both MSI and Asus and in my experience MSI sets sub timings a bit looser so even though you might run say 64000c30 on MSI 6200c30 on Asus might be faster if you bench them using bios defaults/XMP.

So it is kind of a useless comparison comparing XMP to XMP. I can see from a "generic" user end point most wont care if it is faster at 62000 they think big number better. But many people are dumb/ignorant lets be honest.


----------



## sblantipodi

neurokirurgi said:


> The SPD hub is right next to the PMIC. If you have a pad on the PMIC covering all the parts, you're also covering the SPD hub.
> 
> 
> It's always the same thing over here with these corporate cheerleaders. Criticize Asus in general (or the Apex in particular), and you get these people trying their best to deflect away from it. There were people actually trying to deflect away from the fact that Z690 Heros were blowing up when we already knew that there were boards out there with components that were mounted the wrong way.


Extreme is the worst mobo of the batch.
I have mounted the same CPU and memory on the Hero and I can achieve 600MHz more from the same sticks with the same voltages and latencies


----------



## mikasalo500

sblantipodi said:


> Extreme is the worst mobo of the batch.
> I have mounted the same CPU and memory on the Hero and I can achieve 600MHz more from the same sticks with the same voltages and latencies


I feel the same. I bought the Extreme for a lot of money, also because I think it looks great, but nothing worked. Maximum 5600 with fast timings. Tested different rams but always the same. Then I bought the Apex and since then the Ram has been running with 6400 or 6600 (I'm still testing that stably)


----------



## 7empe

mikasalo500 said:


> I feel the same. I bought the Extreme for a lot of money, also because I think it looks great, but nothing worked. Maximum 5600 with fast timings. Tested different rams but always the same. Then I bought the Apex and since then the Ram has been running with 6400 or 6600 (I'm still testing that stably)


Apex and Extreme have different topologies (T vs Daisy Chain), so not supprised that Extreme cannot keep up the pace. Not sure with Hero though


----------



## bscool

7empe said:


> Apex and Extreme have different topologies (T vs Daisy Chain), so not supprised that Extreme cannot keep up the pace. Not sure with Hero though


I dont think that is correct. 2 dim vs 4 but neither is t toplogy. Where did you get this? All z690 are daisy chain as far as I know.


----------



## 7empe

bscool said:


> I dont think that is correct. 2 dim vs 4 but neither is t toplogy. Where did you get this? All z690 are daisy chain as far as I know.


Uhm, didn't know that it has changed. So what topology is used for 2-dimmers? Daisy chain? When did they change this? I can't find any paper on this.


----------



## Nizzen

Extreme sux...
Or? 

😎


----------



## IronAge

7empe said:


> Uhm, didn't know that it has changed. So what topology is used for 2-dimmers? Daisy chain? When did they change this? I can't find any paper on this.


T-topology is history since Comet Lake.


----------



## munternet

I'm pretty happy with the Apex so far
12900k SP85 running all cores
The ram has trained every time and booted XMP 6000c40 straight off. Also booted 7000 but failed to enter windows at just 1.4v.
I just set a few values tonight after work at 6400MHz and it looks promising and games well in BF2042
Still no cooling on the ram yet, not even a fan and the ambient is ~28°c at the PC so they errored about 15 mins into extreme anta777 when they hit ~60°c but other than that this seems like a good starting point


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Extreme sux...
> Or?
> 
> 😎
> 
> View attachment 2547650


Those are binned rams and probably a binned CPU.
It will of course do that. Those rams are not even for sale. I think alot of these issues that point to people not being able to run stable is due to the limitation of their individual memory controller on the CPU. It sure seems that way.


----------



## sippo

What do you think about:

12900k 5.2 alll core, 6933 30-40-40-30

Result is: low, high or ok ?
(sotr steam version)


----------



## Nizzen

sippo said:


> What do you think about:
> 
> 12900k 5.2 alll core, 6933 30-40-40-30
> 
> Result is: low, high or ok ?
> (sotr steam version)
> 
> View attachment 2547680


Looks about right. Show us Aida 64 pleace


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> Those are binned rams and probably a binned CPU.
> It will of course do that. Those rams are not even for sale. I think alot of these issues that point to people not being able to run stable is due to the limitation of their individual memory controller on the CPU. It sure seems that way.


Yes!


----------



## sippo

Nizzen said:


> Looks about right. Show us Aida 64 pleace


30-40-40-26


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sippo said:


> What do you think about:
> 
> 12900k 5.2 alll core, 6933 30-40-40-30
> 
> Result is: low, high or ok ?
> (sotr steam version)
> 
> View attachment 2547680


Don’t listen to him, it should be 370+. Disable e-cores and HT, raise ring clock to 48 or higher.


----------



## sippo

geriatricpollywog said:


> Don’t listen to him, it should be 370+. Disable e-cores and HT, raise ring clock to 48 or higher.


Result is worse than with e,ht. 
Tried 3 times. HT - disabled, E-core - disabled. Ring:50, CPU 53. - Always GPU Restriction from 20-30% :/ - strange

Raw CPU score is better but overall everything is restricted by GPU - I dont know why :/

HT - disabled, E-core - disabled. Ring:50, CPU 53.








avg = 421

HT - enabled. E - enabled, Ring 42, CPU 53










avg =352













Also after disabling ecores, ht, windows:


----------



## Nizzen

sippo said:


> Result is worse than with. Tried 3 times. HT - disabled, E-core - disabled. Ring:50, CPU 53.
> GPU Restriction from 20-30% :/ - strange
> 
> Raw CPU score is better but overall everything is restricted by GPU - I dont know why :/
> 
> HT - disabled, E-core - disabled. Ring:50, CPU 53.
> View attachment 2547694
> 
> avg = 421
> 
> HT - enabled. E - enabled, Ring 42, CPU 53
> 
> View attachment 2547695
> 
> 
> avg =352
> 
> 
> View attachment 2547693


421 is crazy!


----------



## Sayenah

fortecosi said:


> Hey, I am just curious, not my business ofc, but, did you buy Apex to run XMP profiles on it? I am asking because if I am not mistaken, you got Asus, and you seems to be kinda biased with XMP profiles, which does not make sense to me at all. But as I said, not my business, no need to reply if you don´t want to.


Dude, really, stop this cope. Not being able to run XMP profiles is an issue. It has nothing to do with personal preferences. That is an advertised feature on RAM as well as the damn motherboard itself. Keep on simping for Asus by gatekeeping your manual OC’ing fetish.

MSI has gotten it right, Asus has either not gotten it right or cannot get it right. You are missing a huge advertised feature at a higher price point. Now it begs the question, why is that feature not working? Is it because the hardware is not capable of supporting increasingly tighter timings at faster speeds and requires tons of manual intervention? Is it just bad software? Rhetorical questions, really. Again, MSI got this right. And from what I am seeing on Reddit even Gigabyte has begun to take a dump on Asus in terms of memory compatibility.


----------



## fortecosi

Sayenah said:


> Dude, really, stop this cope. Not being able to run XMP profiles is an issue. It has nothing to do with personal preferences. That is an advertised feature on RAM as well as the damn motherboard itself. Keep on simping for Asus by gatekeeping your manual OC’ing fetish.
> 
> MSI has gotten it right, Asus has either not gotten it right or cannot get it right. You are missing a huge advertised feature at a higher price point. Now it begs the question, why is that feature not working? Is it because the hardware is not capable of supporting increasingly tighter timings at faster speeds and requires tons of manual intervention? Is it just bad software? Rhetorical questions, really. Again, MSI got this right. And from what I am seeing on Reddit even Gigabyte has begun to take a dump on Asus in terms of memory compatibility.


Uhm, ok, yes, what to say... you have no idea how XMP works. I think you are gonna find more answers you like to see on the reddit, than here. But it´s ok, I will stop it. Just wanted to know your reasons.


----------



## newls1

Will this MSI board be okay to obtain 6400+ speeds with or is a unify X really needed? ( MSI Z690 MPG Force WiFi DDR5 Intel LGA 1700 ATX Motherboard - Micro Center ) Just looking to save 150$ if i can. My local MC has the regular Unify (NON X) would this be better then this "Force" for memory OCing? Any input is greatly appreciated


----------



## dr.silkyworm

Had this post up earlier but had to make some edits on the kits I had, sorry for spamming.. 

Hey guys I currently am waiting on my RMA'd Asus z690 Maximus Hero.. Started with Corsair CMT32GX5M2B5200C38, but now purchased and have three kits of the following thinking I may swap the Corsair 5200C38 out. The first one is on the qvl and the second one isn't but is shown as "compatible I guess on the G. Skill website". The kits are F5-6000u3636e16gx2-tz5rk and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK.. , and another 2 kits of CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 not in the qvl. I bought 2 of each thinking I could fill my four slots but I hear it's not that simple.. is that the case? Also any recommendations on what kit would be the best, I'm a novice at most stuff. But when it comes to memory overclockling/compatibility with my board is where my knowledge kind of hits a dead end.. Any help would be appreciated, first time user on this website.. Need to return these kits pretty soon as well.. Thanks in advance

12900k and Asus z690 Hero


----------



## affxct

I don't know what the hell Shamino did, but I can now boot 6600C34 1.45V on the Strix-F. What the actual...


----------



## Carillo

Sayenah said:


> Dude, really, stop this cope. Not being able to run XMP profiles is an issue. It has nothing to do with personal preferences. That is an advertised feature on RAM as well as the damn motherboard itself. Keep on simping for Asus by gatekeeping your manual OC’ing fetish.
> 
> MSI has gotten it right, Asus has either not gotten it right or cannot get it right. You are missing a huge advertised feature at a higher price point. Now it begs the question, why is that feature not working? Is it because the hardware is not capable of supporting increasingly tighter timings at faster speeds and requires tons of manual intervention? Is it just bad software? Rhetorical questions, really. Again, MSI got this right. And from what I am seeing on Reddit even Gigabyte has begun to take a dump on Asus in terms of memory compatibility.


So if you and Reddit have the solution to this problem, why did you join OCN with a Asus board ? Can't you just RMA your board and swap to MSI or Gigabyte ? I don't think whining on OCN will get you anywhere  just a thought


----------



## sugi0lover

With the new Gskill 6400 CL32 Kit, my stable OC setup for 1T.
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.5hz , Cache 5.0Ghz, E cores off)
○ Ram : G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 TRIDENT Z5
○ Ram OC : 6600Mhz-30-37-37-28-280-1T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1101)
○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD/VDDQ TX 1.600v / VDDQ 1.540v / MC 1.350v / SA 1.320v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony.









DDR5 Stable OC : 6600Mhz CL30 1T (12900K + New Gskill 6400 CL32 Ram Kit)


New item added to shared album




photos.app.goo.gl

















[Edit] 1 Cycle of TM5 Extreme doesn't take even 7 min.









Bios Profile (CMO)
Z690Apex_6600C301T_HTOFF.CMO


----------



## Forsaken1

Carillo said:


> So if you and Reddit have the solution to this problem, why did you join OCN with a Asus board ? Can't you just RMA your board and swap to MSI or Gigabyte ? I don't think whining on OCN will get you anywhere  just a thought


Rename thread to ***** & whine.
My turn😀.
Tachyon no 1T support.Non K bios is poor.
Played with unify X.Top board.-VR bug.
Used apex early launch.…..Maybe its better now.


----------



## Sayenah

Carillo said:


> So if you and Reddit have the solution to this problem, why did you join OCN with a Asus board ? Can't you just RMA your board and swap to MSI or Gigabyte ? I don't think whining on OCN will get you anywhere  just a thought


Cute response. I swapped out two Apex boards before getting a fantastic UnifyX.

You will laugh at the next bit: now to add even more complications to my life I even ordered ANOTHER Z690 Apex for a second 12900k/3090 build  call me masochistic but I think Asus has the best implementation of Thunderbolt with their fantastic ThunderboltEX4 card… and I only have TB hubs. So, since you all have such glowing words about Asus let’s give it another try, right? Can’t get three crappy boards in a row haha

why did I join this board? Do I need to simp for Asus to join this board? Come on man. Chill out. I think you all are a good bunch with tons of awesome information.

yes. I will continue to whine as long as you are coping and simping for Asus haha


----------



## biigshow666

Hello two ddr5 kits are available and in stock. 



Tforce 6400c40 FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01

or gskill 6400c32 F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK

GSkill is 12% more so not the end of the world.

I currently have launch day Corsair kit @ 5600c36. I tried upgrading to gskill 6000c32 but could not get the system to post at the time. Mid December bios for strix f and I ended up returning to new egg for a full refund.

Will strix f run and be able to tune these kits for a tangible performance increase over my current kit or should I sit tight and see what develops over sitting and summer...?
Thanks!


----------



## centvalny

Carillo said:


> So if you and Reddit have the solution to this problem, why did you join OCN with a Asus board ? Can't you just RMA your board and swap to MSI or Gigabyte ? I don't think whining on OCN will get you anywhere  just a thought


Some peeps only read postings on forums and not even own the board No pics of setting or result.


----------



## MarkDeMark

sugi0lover said:


> With the new Gskill 6400 CL32 Kit, my stable OC setup for 1T.
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.5hz , Cache 5.0Ghz, E cores off)
> ○ Ram : G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 TRIDENT Z5
> ○ Ram OC : 6600Mhz-30-37-37-28-280-1T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1101)
> ○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD/VDDQ TX 1.600v / VDDQ 1.540v / MC 1.320v / SA 1.350v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5 Stable OC : 6600Mhz CL30 1T (12900K + New Gskill 6400 CL32 Ram Kit)
> 
> 
> New item added to shared album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos.app.goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2547702
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Edit] 1 Cycle of TM5 Extreme doesn't take even 7 min.
> View attachment 2547708
> 
> 
> Bios Profile (CMO)
> Z690Apex_6600C301T_HTOFF.CMO


@sugi0lover - any specific reason(s) you are not using 0086 - or you're just happy with 1101?


----------



## centvalny

MarkDeMark said:


> Any specific reason(s) you are not using 0086 - or you're just happy with 1101?


0086 is beta bios for memory testing only and best run with wibdows lite os.


----------



## MarkDeMark

centvalny said:


> 0086 is beta bios for memory testing only and best run with wibdows lite os.


@centvalny - After spending 24hrs with windows 11 turning off features - optimizing settings - removing programs - and the lot. Can I consider that a windows lite? Or no way - you need the downloadable "Windows 11 Lite" or "Windows 11 Pro Lite" or "Super Lite" or any of those variant available on the web...


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> 421 is crazy!


Its not THAT crazy








My regular old Zen3 can almost hang, at normal temps, running 24/7 daily profile at the ~same settings as he is running.







(keyword is dx here..)


----------



## centvalny

MarkDeMark said:


> @centvalny - After spending 24hrs with windows 11 turning off features - optimizing settings - removing programs - and the lot. Can I consider that a windows lite? Or no way - you need the downloadable "Windows 11 Lite" or "Windows 11 Pro Lite" or "Super Lite" or any of those variant available on the web...


I used the same windows 10 lite bare since Apex XI with only benching and oc tool programs (with maxmem for ddr4 bdie). There is a few benching os resources @hwbot


----------



## jimpc

CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 RGB 32GB (2PK X 16GB) 6200MHz DDR5 C36 DESKTOP Black CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 - Best Buy


Shop CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 RGB 32GB (2PK X 16GB) 6200MHz DDR5 C36 DESKTOP Black at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.




www.bestbuy.com


----------



## dante`afk

my supercool items arrived, 2 days delivery, monday shipped.

full copper. ramblock is pretty heavy. I'll get onto it on the weekend.


----------



## ObviousCough

jimpc said:


> CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 RGB 32GB (2PK X 16GB) 6200MHz DDR5 C36 DESKTOP Black CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 - Best Buy
> 
> 
> Shop CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 RGB 32GB (2PK X 16GB) 6200MHz DDR5 C36 DESKTOP Black at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bestbuy.com


----------



## borant

dante`afk said:


> my supercool items arrived, 2 days delivery, monday shipped.
> 
> full copper. ramblock is pretty heavy. I'll get onto it on the weekend.
> 
> View attachment 2547777
> View attachment 2547776


does ramblock have cutout for DDR5 PMIC?


----------



## nickolp1974

Pretty much at the limit with my hardware for CR1, not bad though for some green sticks of ram and a SP83 cpu, LOL cropped GB3, mem score was about 13700


----------



## affxct

I hope this helps Samsung owners:


tRTP - 14, CR - 2
34-37-37-38 (Unstable-ish)
34-37-37-53 (Very unstable)
34-37-37-63 (Very unstable)
34-37-37-78 (Stable enough for daily)

When tRAS is set too low on S16B, the IMC auto corrects to some or other arbitrary value. That’s why 53 and 63 were very unstable, whereas 38 was much more stable but not quite there. 78 is the most stable because it defaults tRC sufficiently high enough.

I think this is why G.Skill defaulted the new J SKU kits to 96 tRAS. They probably figured a lot of the issues were due to IMC stress. I found it weird that 76-96 tRAS was one of the solutions the screeners came up with.

But yeah, Samsung sticks definitely have a hard limit of whatever the lowest path to tRAS is (RCDRD+RTP+Burst I guess). But tCL+RCDRD+2 or more seems good for stabilising something that’s pushing your IMC.

The main reason tRAS matters is because tRC is not manually configurable on Asus. I assume this is also why RAM vendors use tRAS to manipulate tRC. Afaik you can set tRC significantly higher than tRAS+tRP on boards that support it. I used to set tRC kinda high to daily 5000C18 on my X570 Unify. tRAS isn’t particularly memory controller heavy, but tRC kinda is. If there were a way to unlink the two, you could pretty much set tRAS to its minimum relative to S16B, and manipulate tRC separately to achieve more aggressive memory configs on average to above average IMCs.

From here on out I’m sticking to tCL+tRCD+2+X because I don’t particularly care about low tRC compared to max freq and primaries.


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> Will this MSI board be okay to obtain 6400+ speeds with or is a unify X really needed? ( MSI Z690 MPG Force WiFi DDR5 Intel LGA 1700 ATX Motherboard - Micro Center ) Just looking to save 150$ if i can. My local MC has the regular Unify (NON X) would this be better then this "Force" for memory OCing? Any input is greatly appreciated


this is gonna get lost and burried again! Can someone offer some insight please?!


----------



## 7empe

First few hours with new g.skills 6400c32 kit.

6400-28-37-37-32


















Some notes on voltages (screenshot does not show the final ones):

VDD 1.53V (lower = instability)
VDDQ 1.50V (did not try lower yet)
VDDQTx 1.52V (on Auto)
VCCSA 0.95V (started from 1.25V which is an Auto value based on frequency; got as low as to Intel’s spec.)
L2 1.1V Adaptive (started from 1.25V)
IMC 1.3125V (started from 1.35V; 1.30V starts to produce errors like #2 in TM5 1usmus_v3)
Stability checked with: prime95 112k, y-cruncher, TM5 and two rounds with BFV.
I did not try anything with higher frequency yet. Just did a fast check that I could get to W11 with 6600c30, 6800c30, 6933c32 and 7000c32. It’s the unknown ground still - no testing at all, just random voltages and attempt to post  I’m going to move upward during the incoming weeks until I hit the wall.


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> this is gonna get lost and burried again! Can someone offer some insight please?!


I have 6400C34 stable on my Strix-F. The Force is an 8-layer board. It should do just just fine. If you don't mind ITX, the Z690i Unify is probably the best D5 OC board. It has 12 layers, 1DPC, and all for +-$400.


----------



## 7empe

Oh, and btw. temperature almost does not change during mem test - around 28-29c on average (water temp 22c) with voltages up to 1.55v (did not test higher). I used 0.5mm pads on dies, 1mm on SPD hub and PMIC, 1.5mm on the backside.


----------



## newls1

affxct said:


> I have 6400C34 stable on my Strix-F. The Force is an 8-layer board. It should do just just fine. If you don't mind ITX, the Z690i Unify is probably the best D5 OC board. It has 12 layers, 1DPC, and all for +-$400.


thank you sir, much appreciated


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> thank you sir, much appreciated


I did the buy once cry once. Apex should be here Friday  I still might cry 2x if I have the 1 slot clock way less than the other 

May the DDR5 Gods bless me like they have on z690 ddr4


----------



## db000

dante`afk said:


> my supercool items arrived, 2 days delivery, monday shipped.
> 
> full copper. ramblock is pretty heavy. I'll get onto it on the weekend.
> 
> View attachment 2547777
> View attachment 2547776


Do you have a link for that RAM block?


----------



## sugi0lover

MarkDeMark said:


> @sugi0lover - any specific reason(s) you are not using 0086 - or you're just happy with 1101?


To me, no difference. So i just use the most recnet one.


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> I did the buy once cry once. Apex should be here Friday  I still might cry 2x if I have the 1 slot clock way less than the other
> 
> May the DDR5 Gods bless me like they have on z690 ddr4


I have a big heart for MSI boards brother.... Every board ive used since the NForce4 days and all amd/intel platforms since have been MSI.


----------



## db000

7empe said:


> First few hours with new g.skills 6400c32 kit.
> 
> 6400-28-37-37-32
> 
> View attachment 2547873
> 
> View attachment 2547874
> 
> 
> Some notes on voltages (screenshot does not show the final ones):
> 
> VDD 1.53V (lower = instability)
> VDDQ 1.50V (did not try lower yet)
> VDDQTx 1.52V (on Auto)
> VCCSA 0.95V (started from 1.25V which is an Auto value based on frequency; got as low as to Intel’s spec.)
> L2 1.1V Adaptive (started from 1.25V)
> IMC 1.3125V (started from 1.35V; 1.30V starts to produce errors like #2 in TM5 1usmus_v3)
> Stability checked with: prime95 112k, y-cruncher, TM5 and two rounds with BFV.
> I did not try anything with higher frequency yet. Just did a fast check that I could get to W11 with 6600c30, 6800c30, 6933c32 and 7000c32. It’s the unknown ground still - no testing at all, just random voltages and attempt to post  I’m going to move upward during the incoming weeks until I hit the wall.


These settings worked good for me. Adjusted voltages for start, VDD 1.55, VCCSA 1.0v, IMC 1.35.
Thanks a bunch. I should have my new case here by next week so I can improve my temps in TM5.... Happy so far 
Same kit: G.Skill 6200c32


----------



## opt33

7empe said:


> First few hours with new g.skills 6400c32 kit.
> 
> 6400-28-37-37-32
> Some notes on voltages (screenshot does not show the final ones):
> 
> VDD 1.53V (lower = instability)
> VDDQ 1.50V (did not try lower yet)
> VDDQTx 1.52V (on Auto)
> VCCSA 0.95V (started from 1.25V which is an Auto value based on frequency; got as low as to Intel’s spec.)
> L2 1.1V Adaptive (started from 1.25V)
> IMC 1.3125V (started from 1.35V; 1.30V starts to produce errors like #2 in TM5 1usmus_v3)
> Stability checked with: prime95 112k, y-cruncher, TM5 and two rounds with BFV.
> I did not try anything with higher frequency yet. Just did a fast check that I could get to W11 with 6600c30, 6800c30, 6933c32 and 7000c32. It’s the unknown ground still - no testing at all, just random voltages and attempt to post  I’m going to move upward during the incoming weeks until I hit the wall.


Thanks for posting voltages, helps to compare kits. Your gskill 6400c32 hynix is literally like it looks, 4cl (or 0.1 volts) better bin than my 6400c36 corsair hynix....your 1.53vdd for 6400c28-37 is roughly what mine needs for 6400c32-37 with rest settings same. IMC voltage on my sp93 pcore is similar 1.32 for 64001T. That gskill kit is definitely best current bin, I need to quit looking at this thread or going to end up impulse buying it just to play with.


----------



## affxct

Anyone else notice that the newest Asus BIOS revisions seem to tank Aida latency when certain settings are used? I don’t know for sure but I think it’s when you run IMC VDD a bit too high (auto even). At 1.25V I was getting much better latency results, unless there’s something else I changed somehow. I honestly can’t think that there is.


----------



## gecko991

Lookin a grab a set currently running the Z5 5600 at 6310.


----------



## Balaned

My Unify-X arrives tomorrow. It seems like I should be using E7D28IMS.A12U4 I've spent a good while looking but can't find a functioning link. If this is the BIOS I should be running would anyone please share a link with me? I would very much appreciate it.


----------



## Bilco

Am I reading correctly the g.skill 6400c32 kits do not have thermal pads? 

Has anyone added any to the heat sinks and know the thicknesses for the pmic//memory chips?


----------



## sugi0lover

Balaned said:


> My Unify-X arrives tomorrow. It seems like I should be using E7D28IMS.A12U4 I've spent a good while looking but can't find a functioning link. If this is the BIOS I should be running would anyone please share a link with me? I would very much appreciate it.


Not sure this is the one you are looking for. There are lots of bios for MSI.





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## borant

7empe said:


> Oh, and btw. temperature almost does not change during mem test - around 28-29c on average (water temp 22c) with voltages up to 1.55v (did not test higher). I used 0.5mm pads on dies, 1mm on SPD hub and PMIC, 1.5mm on the backside.


what heatsink do you use? and why pads instead of paste on dies plus 0.5mm on PMIC?


----------



## dr.silkyworm

Nizzen said:


> This isn't XMP.net 🤠 💯


He is just trying to help me as i have multiple kits from different vendors, didn't realize someone would get **** for giving me some info on what they thought my best bet was with what I had.. XMP or NOT... 

anyways does Teamgroup have a reputation at all? Was also leaning towards FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 any thoughts? 

Thankfully Yours


----------



## Nizzen

dr.silkyworm said:


> He is just trying to help me as i have multiple kits from different vendors, didn't realize someone would get **** for giving me some info on what they thought my best bet was with what I had.. XMP or NOT...
> 
> anyways does Teamgroup have a reputation at all? Was also leaning towards FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 any thoughts?
> 
> Thankfully Yours


Teamgroup is very good and had a good reputation on ddr4. One of my best 2x8GB ddr4 kits is Team T-force extreme


----------



## Balaned

sugi0lover said:


> Not sure this is the one you are looking for. There are lots of bios for MSI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beta/MP - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Thanks much for the link. I'm not seeing A12U4 for Unify-X there so still on the hunt.


----------



## Uncertainty08

marco.is.not.80 said:


> Just reading the last couple of pages and was honestly surprised to read about people who purchased an Apex who weren't really interested in spending long hours unlocking mysteries that will enable them to run their CPU and memory at the very highest curve of their potential. I don't think I ever purchased one of the boards below with the expectation that it would "just work". Asus needs to fix their marketing to make it more obvious so many of you aren't wasting your time doing stuff you don't really like. Or so it seems to me.
> 
> View attachment 2547517
> 
> View attachment 2547518
> 
> View attachment 2547519


I'm currently on my first Apex, the XII - Z490, my last board was Maximus Extreme. My first PC was in 1991 when I was 11. I love Overclocking, although I wish I still had as much time to devote to it as when I was younger, but it's definitely a big part of the reason I spend money on Enthusiast Hardware. Not just for gaming but because Overclocking is my hobby.
I'm definitely buying the Z690 Apex in next month or two. I already have G.Skill DDR5 6000C36 RAM kit, I'm waiting for 12900KS. 

You've had so many sick motherboards. I don't say this much but I'm actually kind of jealous. Impressive to say the least. I don't understand people buying an Apex and wanting to just plug and play either but I'm sure ASUS loves the sales. The more Apex boards they sell the better. I guess people have other reasons for buying Apex. Most reviewers don't recommend them because of the high cost and unique feature set for small group of consumers. I'm looking forward to getting the 12900 and Z690 Apex. For me the quality of the board and BIOS make it worth every penny.

Although I have to say I recently finally replaced my Corsair Obsidian 800D with a Corsair 7000D White so I really wish I could get a white Apex like the formula. But there's is no way I'd ever choose the Formula over the Apex just so it matches the color of my case. Honestly I don't understand why they even make the formula. I know they make for it profit but water cooling the vrm doesn't really make sense to me. Especially when it's not on the Overclocking focused motherboard. They should combine the Formula and Apex, at least imo.


----------



## Carillo

Another 6600 c30 1T result on Apex, but a little bit more relaxed trefi for lower VDD/VDDQ. You will miss out on 1ns latency, but i don't think the voltage extra needed for max Trefi is worth it for 24/7. RTL is manually set for this profile, and E-cores are enabled. (latency around 48ns with e-cores disabled) I'm going to keep working this profile, trying to lower volages further. 


CPU : 12900K with E-cores enabled
DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
Voltages : SA 1.344v / TX 1.500 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.50 VDDQ 1.5
Ram cooling : Water


----------



## 7empe

borant said:


> what heatsink do you use? and why pads instead of paste on dies plus 0.5mm on PMIC?


I use the EKWB waterblock with EKWB Monarch heatsinks.
I noticed that there is better temp transfer with the heatsink when using 0.5mm pads on dies than using thermalpaste. Difference is small though - around 2c (maybe it's just because I am bad with spreading the paste ).
0.5mm on PMIC is not enough. As you can notice, surrounding SMDs are higher than PMIC itself. Difference is 0.5mm. You need another 0.5mm to have a contact with the heatsink. Same is true for SPD hub.
Also worth notice is that it is good to use thermalpads on the backside of the single-sided sticks instead of the original 1.5mm foam used by g.skill. Better heat transfer from the PCB.


----------



## 7empe

Carillo said:


> Another 6600 c30 1T result on Apex, but a little bit more relaxed trefi for lower VDD/VDDQ. You will miss out on 1ns latency, but i don't think the voltage extra needed for max Trefi is worth it for 24/7. RTL is manually set for this profile, and E-cores are enabled. (latency around 48ns with e-cores disabled) I'm going to keep working this profile, trying to lower volages further.
> 
> 
> CPU : 12900K with E-cores enabled
> DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> Voltages : SA 1.344v / TX 1.500 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.50 VDDQ 1.5
> Ram cooling : Water
> 
> 
> View attachment 2547936


Going to check if this works for me rn. Thanks for posting.


----------



## timd78

What setting is likely to cause resume from sleep instability when memory tuning guys?


----------



## 7empe

timd78 said:


> What setting is likely to cause resume from sleep instability when memory tuning guys?


My guess would be too low tRFC and/or too high tREFI.


----------



## AYTOKPATOP

Hello guys how I will start to tighten my ram timings with the Kingston Hynix 32GB 6000Mhz CL 40-40-40?


----------



## bl4ckdot

Balaned said:


> Thanks much for the link. I'm not seeing A12U4 for Unify-X there so still on the hunt.


Best current bios for UX is the A.22 listed on the msi website


----------



## Carillo

M


timd78 said:


> What setting is likely to cause resume from sleep instability when memory tuning guys?


I don't use sleep mode, but if your fast boot is disabled, that could be the reason.


----------



## roooo

Just as a heads up: My GSkill 6400C32 kit started getting instable during daily office use even after reverting to stock frequency and timings. My machine would just reboot out of the blue. This is with VDD/x 1.47V, SA Auto, MC 1.25V. Repeated TM5 and it threw errors after less than 5 minutes, while it was stable for >3 cycles and Karhu 6000% a couple of days ago with 6400C30 tight subs. No changes in BIOS settings since then. Not very promising, though.


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> Just as a heads up: My GSkill 6400C32 kit started getting instable during daily office use even after reverting to stock frequency and timings. My machine would just reboot out of the blue. This is with VDD/x 1.47V, SA Auto, MC 1.25V. Repeated TM5 and it threw errors after less than 5 minutes, while it was stable for >3 cycles and Karhu 6000% a couple of days ago with 6400C30 tight subs. No changes in BIOS settings since then. Not very promising, though.


One day stable as rock, another day shutdowns and reboots = too low IMC voltage. I bet you can't pass p95 112fft avx disabled.


----------



## roooo

7empe said:


> One day stable as rock, another day shutdowns and reboots = too low IMC voltage. I bet you can't pass p95 112fft avx disabled.


IMC is already at 1.25V - shouldn't that be plenty for stock?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

roooo said:


> IMC is already at 1.25V - shouldn't that be plenty for stock?


6400MHz is not stock, 4800Mhz is.


----------



## roooo

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 6400MHz is not stock, 4800Mhz is.


Valid point.


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> Valid point.


If you are on XMP, try something from the 1.30V - 1.35V range. Moreover cache frequency has an impact on IMC voltage too. Higher frequency = higher voltage needed to keep up the pace. It is something like +100 MHz on cache = 1-2 upticks on voltage.


----------



## roooo

7empe said:


> If you are on XMP, try something from the 1.30V - 1.35V range. Moreover cache frequency has an impact on IMC voltage too. Higher frequency = higher voltage needed to keep up the pace. It is something like +100 MHz on cache = 1-2 upticks on voltage.


Thanks, much appreciated. Do you suggest tweaking Ring PLL as well, or better leave that one alone?

To me it seems that currently there's a wall at around 6000MHz where things start getting tricky unless you have a very good CPU/IMC. For example, I had absolutely no issue running the GSkill 6000C36 kit at 6000C32 tight subs with "default" voltages and cache at 50x. Not complaining, just trying to grasp the whole picture.


----------



## 7empe

roooo said:


> Thanks, much appreciated. Do you suggest tweaking Ring PLL as well, or better leave that one alone?
> 
> To me it seems that currently there's a wall at around 6000MHz where things start getting tricky unless you have a very good CPU/IMC. For example, I had absolutely no issue running the GSkill 6000C36 kit at 6000C32 tight subs with "default" voltages and cache at 50x. Not complaining, just trying to grasp the whole picture.


Why would you like to touch Ring PLL at all? Don't do that.
If you're at 50x cache, I strongly recommend to verify if you're stable at all with these CPU settings + pure XMP. Many times in the past I thought that I hit the wall with RAM OC, when the problem was completely somewhere else - unstable CPU or Cache OC.


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> IMC is already at 1.25V - shouldn't that be plenty for stock?


impossible to say how much MC one needs because of the big variety in IMC quality. I have a friend with a SP90 12900k that maxes out @6350 1T on apex ( stability wise) . You will come to a certain point when more is less, the more MC you supply the more instability you get. Your IMC have a max no matter how high voltage you supply.


----------



## roooo

7empe said:


> Why would you like to touch Ring PLL at all? Don't do that.
> If you're at 50x cache, I strongly recommend to verify if you're stable at all with these CPU settings + pure XMP. Many times in the past I thought that I hit the wall with RAM OC, when the problem was completely somewhere else - unstable CPU or Cache OC.


I was, at least with the 6000C36 kit, but not under extreme AVX conditions, which I never use anyway. But stable in long MSFS sessions (which means something) and hour-long FEM calculations under Linux. I'm only running P-cores though and the P-core SP is 103, so a quite decent chip.

I came across the Ring PLL thing in the 12900k thread IIRC, where one of the more involved guys suggested slightly (!) upping it to improve stability at high cache ratios. Never tried it, though, that's why I was asking.


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> impossible to say how much MC one needs because of the big variety in IMC quality. I have a friend with a SP90 12900k that maxes out @6350 1T on apex ( stability wise) . You will come to a certain point when more is less, the more MC you supply the more instability you get. Your IMC have a max no matter how high voltage you supply.


From my initial tests with the 6400C32 kit I figured that increasing MC to 1.30V or slightly above did not really help with stability but rather degrade it, but I will revisit this again.


----------



## centvalny

7empe said:


> If you are on XMP, try something from the 1.30V - 1.35V range. Moreover cache frequency has an impact on IMC voltage too. Higher frequency = higher voltage needed to keep up the pace. It is something like +100 MHz on cache = 1-2 upticks on voltage.





roooo said:


> Just as a heads up: My GSkill 6400C32 kit started getting instable during daily office use even after reverting to stock frequency


Use xmp for daily work usage. Save oc settings in bios for easy retrieval when you want to bench or gaming.


----------



## 7empe

Okey Folks, based on the previous 6400 C28 CR1, I did an uptick to 6600 C30 CR2.


roooo said:


> From my initial tests with the 6400C32 kit I figured that increasing MC to 1.30V or slightly above did not really help with stability but rather degrade it, but I will revisit this again.


Every IMC has different voltage tolerance. I hope someday ASUS will provide separate SP for IMC silicon 
For example, my 12900KF consume voltage politly up to 1.4V. Anything above 1.4V IMC starts to behave very rude, including screen blackouts due to pcie cut-offs  So, if frequency scales with IMC voltage, my stop point will be 1.40V.


----------



## roooo

centvalny said:


> Use xmp for daily work usage. Save oc settings in bios for easy retrieval when you want to bench or gaming.


That's what I did - reverting to XMP, but still getting reboots. That's why I'm a little concerned.


----------



## Carillo

7empe said:


> Okey Folks, based on the previous 6400 C28 CR1, I did an uptick to 6600 C30 CR2.
> 
> Every IMC has different voltage tolerance. I hope someday ASUS will provide separate SP for IMC silicon
> For example, my 12900KF consume voltage politly up to 1.4V. Anything above 1.4V IMC starts to behave very rude, including screen blackouts due to pcie cut-offs  So, if frequency scales with IMC voltage, my stop point will be 1.40V.


Almost all IMC´s stops at 1,4V but If you set Vdd calculation basepoint in advanced memory voltage configuration, you will be able to run over 1,4. Thanks to @centvalny for sharing this information.


----------



## 7empe

Here is 6600 30-38-38-32 CR2.










Comments:

Could not stabilize CR1 with these voltages. Probably have to go higher on VDD. Also not sure if running stock L2 (1.1V) and SA (0.95V) is a good idea for CR1.
Initially I tried tRP at 37 but got random errors indicating too low tRP. So it is 38. Probably my IMC does not like 37 and 6600.
For VDD I had to go only one step higher from 6400. It's 1.54V.
For VDDQ I had to go from 1.50V to 1.52V.
VDDQTx I left on Auto and it's 1.54V.
Timings:
tRFC increased to 328 and tRFCpb to 298 which is enough to keep tREFI at 130560.
tWR 17
tRTP still low at 6

That's it for now. I will try to get CR1 stable later, if doable in my case at all.

P.S. ....and AIDA:


----------



## timd78

Carillo said:


> M
> 
> 
> I don't use sleep mode, but if your fast boot is disabled, that could be the reason.


Yeah i dont like to use hibernate tbh. Causes problems with unclean filesystems in linux


roooo said:


> That's what I did - reverting to XMP, but still getting reboots. That's why I'm a little concerned.


Save your profiles, reset cmos and then restore your saved profile.

For me at least BIOS configs seem to get messed up.


----------



## marc0053

Playing some more on the Aqua OC. This is only bench stable and not stability tested.


----------



## Brandur

Bought the Unify-X today and I am currently installing Win11 and Updates. Set XMP (TG 6400) in Bios and so far it is running flawlessly in Windows, where the Apex BSOD shortly after booting. If the Unify-X brings the longed-for rest with the RAM, MSI gained a longterm customer and I will buy future PC parts from MSI too.

So far the instability was neither the Ram nor the CPU IMC but the Apex Board -_-. I could have saved a lot of time, money and headache, if I bought the MSI in the first place.

What Buildzoid says in this video is truly right about the Unify-X and the Apex.


----------



## ObviousCough

I'm getting some Hynix tomorrow.


Should i splurge on the G.Skill kit with higher frequency and looser timings using more voltage, or save on the OLOy?


----------



## Alexshunter

Guys, how to read out my memory timing under windows? To me MemTweakit from Asus does not work. Actually i dont even know where from to download it?


----------



## Silent Scone

ObviousCough said:


> I'm getting some Hynix tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Should i splurge on the G.Skill kit with higher frequency and looser timings using more voltage, or save on the OLOy?


Stick with GSKILL. Hand binning and higher frequency bin


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*Brandur*

Should install Windows at stock or very minimal oc to avoid a corrupt install. Never know if your 6400Mhz ram oc is stable and could potentially make a dirty install.


----------



## Sayenah

Brandur said:


> Bought the Unify-X today and I am currently installing Win11 and Updates. Set XMP (TG 6400) in Bios and so far it is running flawlessly in Windows, where the Apex BSOD shortly after booting. If the Unify-X brings the longed-for rest with the RAM, MSI gained a longterm customer and I will buy future PC parts from MSI too.
> 
> So far the instability was neither the Ram nor the CPU IMC but the Apex Board -_-. I could have saved a lot of time, money and headache, if I bought the MSI in the first place.
> 
> What Buildzoid says in this video is truly right about the Unify-X and the Apex.


Exactly my experience with two Apex boards followed by a UnifyX. If I hadn’t bumped into Buildzoid on Reddit I wouldn’t have chanced UnifyX

HOWEVER, I did build a new setup with a Z690 Apex… and that’s running XMP 6400c32 flawlessly. Even cold boot passes Memtest86. Insane right? I might try OC’ing it and see how far I can push it, but game-stable right now.

I personally think it comes down to hardware and Asus just cutting corners. I mean, what else would explain such variance in user experience?Just poopy QC (looking at you Hero!)


----------



## ObviousCough

The replacement of my Z590 Unify-X was approved in December. Still no word on when they're going to send it to me.

I was trying to decide if i should Get a Z690 Unify-X to use with my samsung or stick with the Apex and get some Hynix.

I'm sticking with the Apex, for Z790 I'll probably be back to the Unify-X though.


----------



## jeiselramos

Alexshunter said:


> Guys, how to read out my memory timing under windows? To me MemTweakit from Asus does not work. Actually i dont even know where from to download it?





AsrTCSetup(v4.0.13).zip beim Filehorst - filehorst.de


----------



## Arni90

Carillo said:


> Almost all IMC´s stops at 1,4V but If you set Vdd calculation basepoint in advanced memory voltage configuration, you will be able to run over 1,4. Thanks to @centvalny for sharing this information.


Set VDD basepoint to what? What does the function even do?


----------



## db000

7empe said:


> Here is 6600 30-38-38-32 CR2.
> 
> View attachment 2547983
> 
> 
> Comments:
> 
> Could not stabilize CR1 with these voltages. Probably have to go higher on VDD. Also not sure if running stock L2 (1.1V) and SA (0.95V) is a good idea for CR1.
> Initially I tried tRP at 37 but got random errors indicating too low tRP. So it is 38. Probably my IMC does not like 37 and 6600.
> For VDD I had to go only one step higher from 6400. It's 1.54V.
> For VDDQ I had to go from 1.50V to 1.52V.
> VDDQTx I left on Auto and it's 1.54V.
> Timings:
> tRFC increased to 328 and tRFCpb to 298 which is enough to keep tREFI at 130560.
> tWR 17
> tRTP still low at 6
> 
> That's it for now. I will try to get CR1 stable later, if doable in my case at all.
> 
> P.S. ....and AIDA:
> 
> View attachment 2547986


What version of TurboV core are you using? I'm on V1.10.19


----------



## 7empe

db000 said:


> What version of TurboV core are you using? I'm on V1.10.19


The one that came on the pendrive with mobo. Not sure how to check the version?


----------



## db000

Alexshunter said:


> Guys, how to read out my memory timing under windows? To me MemTweakit from Asus does not work. Actually i dont even know where from to download it?


What version are you running? Im using this, Win11.





MemTweakIt 20210910.zip







drive.google.com


----------



## aster

Alexshunter said:


> Guys, how to read out my memory timing under windows? To me MemTweakit from Asus does not work. Actually i dont even know where from to download it?


Hey, I found it on this page, along with TurboV Core :
Z690 Bios and Tools - Alder Lake (Z690) OC - HWBOT Community Forums 

I'm playing with a Z690 Hero, a temporarily Aircooled 85SP 12700K and Corsair DP 6200C36 (Hynix).
Still on 0811 UEFI and pretty satisfied with it ATM. Will try 1003 later to see if I can get CR1.

Right now, I can get 6400C30 TM5 stable for a few hours with 1,43V VDD, 1,39V VDDQ, 1,25V MC and +0,07V SA
Previous step was 6400C32 with 1,39V VDD which pleases me as a conservative 24/7 setup. 









I didn't manage to get a stable 6600 yet but I trust it's doable, even with a 4DIMM board, I saw nice things around here 

Of course Corsair Dominator Platinum runs very cool, 20°C less than G.skill 6000U36 so no fan needed


----------



## bscool

ObviousCough said:


> I'm getting some Hynix tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Should i splurge on the G.Skill kit with higher frequency and looser timings using more voltage, or save on the OLOy?


Main reason I would avoid other brands(mem with LED) than gskill is if I wanted to turn off the lighting gskill software is the best/lightest that i know of. Something like Corsairs I can only imagine it is a cluster f unless it has gotten better since I last used it.


----------



## db000

7empe said:


> The one that came on the pendrive with mobo. Not sure how to check the version?


Looks like this for me, I dont have the Pen drive with me rn. So cant check it.
I'm missing some settings you have, thats why I'm so curious.


----------



## sugi0lover

db000 said:


> Looks like this for me, I dont have the Pen drive with me rn. So cant check it.
> I'm missing some settings you have, thats why I'm so curious.


It's 1.10.18 which comes withe MB. As far as I know, that version has e-core real-time application issue. 
Your version is higher, no problem with e-cores.
Plz correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## HeliXpc

Hey everyone, new to DDR5, I have the corsair dominator, its using samsung chips, 5600C36, ive managed to get stable at 6000mhz 34-34-34-60 @ 1.375v vddr/q, any suggestions how I can get to 6200C34 stable? I boot into windows at 6200 C34 but its not stable, which voltages should I mess with? the corsair is about 50-55c under full load with AIda64 memory stress test. Thanks!


----------



## satinghostrider

My 6400C30 setting suddenly wasn't stable with my 6400c32 kit. So I tried XMP1 and XMP2 with a full reset bios with power cycle, both failed tm5 within the minute. Adding additional voltage only prolonged the time before errors happened.

Passed the same kit to a friend to check on his Z690i Unify and he passed 30 mins without issues on first boot. I am ruling out IMC as well as both his and my CPU SP84 (Same P core and E core SP rating) is the same. I'm starting to think that XMP or not, there is clearly some issues with signal degradation and/or power delivery past 6000Mhz. I can run 6000Mhz c40 Kingston kit and 5600C36 kit at XMP and they don't fail. Once I cross 6000Mhz, it doesn't matter instabilies will settle in over a couple of power cycles.

I hope this can be fixed soon. All this was tested on 0086 and 1101 bios and both exhibited the same. 0811 with 6000C32 1T preset no issues for longest time so I'm inclined to believe these issues are all frequency and signalling related.


----------



## fortecosi

satinghostrider said:


> I am ruling out IMC as well as both his and my CPU SP84 (Same P core and E core SP rating) is the same.


IMC is not dependant on SP at all. You may have better IMC with worse SP. So unless you test it with the exactly same CPU, it´s interesting, but not actually proving a lot.


----------



## satinghostrider

fortecosi said:


> IMC is not dependant on SP at all. You may have better IMC with worse SP. So unless you test it with the exactly same CPU, it´s interesting, but not actually proving a lot.


That could be true and I'm waiting to try my same CPU on another board to confirm this. But the same kit working on another similar SP 84 CPU with another board at XMP without failing surely can't be my IMC being bad that it fails even stock XMP. The timings on the 6400C32 kit is loose so I hardly think that would be even stressing the limits of the IMC.

Unless someone knows of a ****ty IMC CPU and try it on another board with the same kit. I don't believe that an SP84 would have an IMC so bad that it can't run 6400C32 2T with very loose secondary and tertiaries. Coincidentally, none of my frequencies and timings past 6000Mhz were ever stable XMP or not.


----------



## fortecosi

satinghostrider said:


> That could be true and I'm waiting to try my same CPU on another board to confirm this. But the same kit working on another similar SP 84 CPU with another board at XMP without failing surely can't be my IMC being bad that it fails even stock XMP. The timings on the 6400C32 kit is loose so I hardly think that would be even stressing the limits of the IMC.
> 
> Unless someone knows of a ****ty IMC CPU and try it on another board with the same kit. I don't believe that an SP84 would have an IMC so bad that it can't run 6400C32 2T with very loose secondary and tertiaries.


Well, if, IF, Z690i Unify would be better as RAM OC board than the Apex, if that's the case, I'll destroy my Apex with a hammer and buy the Z690i Unify, which cost half of the Apex price in my country.... and never buy an Asus board again. I am able to pay premium price, but I want a premium board if I do so.


----------



## Sayenah

fortecosi said:


> Well, if, IF, Z690i Unify would be better as RAM OC board than the Apex, if that's the case, I'll destroy my Apex with a hammer and buy the Z690i Unify, which cost half of the Apex price in my country.... and never buy an Asus board again. I am able to pay premium price, but I want a premium board if I do so.





satinghostrider said:


> My 6400C30 setting suddenly wasn't stable with my 6400c32 kit. So I tried XMP1 and XMP2 with a full reset bios with power cycle, both failed tm5 within the minute. Adding additional voltage only prolonged the time before errors happened.
> 
> Passed the same kit to a friend to check on his Z690i Unify and he passed 30 mins without issues. I am ruling out IMC as well as both his and my CPU SP84 (Same P core and E core SP rating) is the same. I'm starting to think that XMP or not, there is some issues with signal degradation or power delivery past 6000Mhz. I can run 6000Mhz c40 Kingston kit and 5600C36 kit at XMP and they don't fail. Once I cross 6000Mhz, it doesn't matter instabilies will settle in over a couple of power cycles.
> 
> I hope this can be fixed soon. All this was tested on 0086 and 1101 bios and both exhibited the same. 0811 with 6000C32 1T preset no issues for longest time so I'm inclined to believe these issues are all frequency and signalling related.


The damn DIMM slots get worn down or something. Asus ****ty hardware. No other explanation


----------



## satinghostrider

fortecosi said:


> Well, if, IF, Z690i Unify would be better as RAM OC board than the Apex, if that's the case, I'll destroy my Apex with a hammer and buy the Z690i Unify, which cost half of the Apex price in my country.... and never buy an Asus board again. I am able to pay premium price, but I want a premium board if I do so.


Some of the Apex boards runs fine and more than some don't. I still am hesitant to go MSI as the Apex when it works, does so very well including the OCTVB which the MSI Unify isn't anywhere close to.

Also, I find that the Apex at the same speed and timings have definitely better latencies compared to the MSI. Sure, the MSI is less of a headache right now for the average user. But there are more technically inclined users that still can't get the board stable with even conservative clocks much less XMP. Some of them are also running high SP80s and low 90s. Surely, it can't be coincidence that them IMCs are also borked that you need a high SP90 or SP100 to run something as simple as 6400C32 XMP for example.

I am confident this is an issue that will be solved somehow. And I still standby the fact the Apex is still the better board overall if it works for the majority of everyone who is pushing past 6000Mhz.


----------



## Dewmgaze

satinghostrider said:


> Some of the Apex boards runs fine and more than some don't. I still am hesitant to go MSI as the Apex when it works, does so very well including the OCTVB which the MSI Unify isn't anywhere close to.


What OCTVB issues does the MSI have? I'm sitting on a Strix-E right now with the same issues, 6000mhz seems to be the magic number. I was considering jumping to MSI. Can you point me to a thread explaining the OCTVB problem it has?


----------



## satinghostrider

Dewmgaze said:


> What OCTVB issues does the MSI have? I'm sitting on a Strix-E right now with the same issues, 6000mhz seems to be the magic number. I was considering jumping to MSI. Can you point me to a thread explaining the OCTVB problem it has?


The per core overclock on the MSI tends to overvolt the CPU making it run hotter than the same CPU that runs on Asus boards. The same guy I passed him my kit to run on his Unify-X told me this and he also said most of others he knows on the same boards also confirms this. And he came from an Z690i Strix board and also told me he missed the CPU overclocking settings and performance on the Asus better.


----------



## Sayenah

satinghostrider said:


> The per core overclock on the MSI tends to overvolt the CPU making it run hotter than the same CPU that runs on Asus boards. The same guy I passed him my kit to run on his Unify-X told me this and he also said most of others he knows on the same boards also confirms this. And he came from an Z690i Strix board and also told me he missed the CPU overclocking settings and performance on the Asus better.


Or if you are like me and like a healthy AI managed OC with a touch of a button, the Asus AI OC works wonders! Honestly, kind of like the PDK to manual transmission


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> My 6400C30 setting suddenly wasn't stable with my 6400c32 kit. So I tried XMP1 and XMP2 with a full reset bios with power cycle, both failed tm5 within the minute. Adding additional voltage only prolonged the time before errors happened.
> 
> Passed the same kit to a friend to check on his Z690i Unify and he passed 30 mins without issues on first boot. I am ruling out IMC as well as both his and my CPU SP84 (Same P core and E core SP rating) is the same. I'm starting to think that XMP or not, there is clearly some issues with signal degradation and/or power delivery past 6000Mhz. I can run 6000Mhz c40 Kingston kit and 5600C36 kit at XMP and they don't fail. Once I cross 6000Mhz, it doesn't matter instabilies will settle in over a couple of power cycles.
> 
> I hope this can be fixed soon. All this was tested on 0086 and 1101 bios and both exhibited the same. 0811 with 6000C32 1T preset no issues for longest time so I'm inclined to believe these issues are all frequency and signalling related.


Well, sounds pretty much the same as I experienced, see my post above. I guess I'll RMA the Apex and either try another one or give the Unify-X a go. Asus appears to have QC issues.


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> The per core overclock on the MSI tends to overvolt the CPU making it run hotter than the same CPU that runs on Asus boards. The same guy I passed him my kit to run on his Unify-X told me this and he also said most of others he knows on the same boards also confirms this. And he came from an Z690i Strix board and also told me he missed the CPU overclocking settings and performance on the Asus better.


But I'm assuming you still have options to set/cap voltages yourself instead of letting them auto so as to avoid overvolting?


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> But I'm assuming you still have options to set/cap voltages yourself instead of letting them auto so as to avoid overvolting?


Not sure about that I don't have an MSI board so I can't comment. I don't think they trust the auto setting on the MSI board which is why they all use fixed voltage. On Asus, this works more than perfectly on auto.


----------



## owikh84

For some reasons it is so difficult to stabilize 6400+ on the Extreme (tested on BIOS 0811/0070/0090/1003/1101), so I decided to go back testing the same Kingston 5600C40 (Hynix) on the Hero. I must say that it was so easy overclocking on the Hero. Feels like whatever setting I applied on it will work perfectly LOL. BTW, I also have the Kingston 6000C40 (Hynix) that is not stable at 6400 even with loose timings and various voltage combos.

12900K SP88 - Stock
Maximus Z690 HERO | BIOS 1003
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)

*2x16GB DDR5-6400 30-37-37-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.45v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.35v* (still can be reduced)








* SPD hub temp reading on one stick ~ 63.8C is a bug


----------



## affxct

HeliXpc said:


> Hey everyone, new to DDR5, I have the corsair dominator, its using samsung chips, 5600C36, ive managed to get stable at 6000mhz 34-34-34-60 @ 1.375v vddr/q, any suggestions how I can get to 6200C34 stable? I boot into windows at 6200 C34 but its not stable, which voltages should I mess with? the corsair is about 50-55c under full load with AIda64 memory stress test. Thanks!


I need 1.35V for 6200 34-35-35-55-2T. You can leave TX and IMC VDD on auto if you’re on an Asus board. SA will land between 1.15-1.2. Some people use super low SA so you might need to as well but I’m not sure how that whole thing works.


----------



## Brandur

If cooling is right, what is the max. safe Voltage for SA and IMC (VDD2) for 24/7?


----------



## satinghostrider

affxct said:


> I need 1.35V for 6200 34-35-35-55-2T. You can leave TX and IMC VDD on auto if you’re on an Asus board. SA will land between 1.15-1.2. Some people use super low SA so you might need to as well but I’m not sure how that whole thing works.


Hynix needs more SA to work reliably in AVX heavy games. I can get away with 0.95V SA for Samsung but Hynix I get thrown to desktop after a few matches. Using SA auto seems to work the best from my experience. @Nizzen also confirms this when playing Battlefield.

Best way to check is run TM5 with SA 0.95V on Hynix and you can pass. Run Kahru within a minute or so you'll fail. Changing it to SA auto allowed me to go to 2000% with no errors.


----------



## roooo

satinghostrider said:


> Hynix needs more SA to work reliably in AVX heavy games. I can get away with 0.95V SA for Samsung but Hynix I get thrown to desktop after a few matches. Using SA auto seems to work the best from my experience. @Nizzen also confirms this when playing Battlefield.
> 
> Best way to check is run TM5 with SA 0.95V on Hynix and you can pass. Run Kahru within a minute or so you'll fail. Changing it to SA auto allowed me to go to 2000% with no errors.


Are you running Karhu with cache enabled or default/disabled?


----------



## satinghostrider

roooo said:


> Are you running Karhu with cache enabled or default/disabled?


I need to recheck my settings to confirm this. I'll check it later tonight when I'm home after work.


----------



## affxct

satinghostrider said:


> Hynix needs more SA to work reliably in AVX heavy games. I can get away with 0.95V SA for Samsung but Hynix I get thrown to desktop after a few matches. Using SA auto seems to work the best from my experience. @Nizzen also confirms this when playing Battlefield.
> 
> Best way to check is run TM5 with SA 0.95V on Hynix and you can pass. Run Kahru within a minute or so you'll fail. Changing it to SA auto allowed me to go to 2000% with no errors.


I’ve found that I need between 0.9-1.35+ depending on memory speed and latency. Currently at 1.25 for 6400 36-36-36.


----------



## satinghostrider

affxct said:


> I’ve found that I need between 0.9-1.35+ depending on memory speed and latency. Currently at 1.25 for 6400 36-36-36.


Sounds about right. My last setting at 6400C30 needed 1.25V to be stable in Kahru. Anything less would fail.


----------



## affxct

Brandur said:


> If cooling is right, what is the max. safe Voltage for SA and IMC (VDD2) for 24/7?


SA max is around 1.4, but you’ll likely need to use less to be stable anyway, so you’re basically never going to end up daily’ing a dangerous number. VDD2 idk, I think like 1.4-1.5 as well. I just let my board set it now because the new Asus BIOS has a means of calculating it, and it does a damn good job of doing so. I don’t know how Gigabyte, MSI or ASRock implement the rail, but I’ve stopped manually adjusting it. The only thing I absolutely can’t leave default is SA. Mine does 0.9 at JEDEC and 1.25 at anything else. 1.25 works for 6400 but not for 6000-6200 and not for 6600+.


----------



## affxct

satinghostrider said:


> Sounds about right. My last setting at 6400C30 needed 1.25V to be stable in Kahru. Anything less would fail.


I don’t think it’s transferable because your Uncore and IMC might be leagues better than on my SP81 chip, but I think that does make sense. I use Intel Burn Test V2 and HCI to verify stability and I generally don’t ever have RAM-related game crashes. I used to suffer cache crashes due to IMC VDD being too low and SA being too low (destabilisation after a day or two of configuration).

Funnily enough, on the new BIOS, IMC VDD for 6400 Auto’s to 1.35 and SA now requires 1.25 with the higher IMC VDD, but requires lower VDD/VDDQ. I was stable with 1.45 VDD/Q but used 1.25 IMC and 1.2 SA. That started to cache crash after a couple days of use. I haven’t had any sign of a cache crash yet and I think SA is high enough to feed the Uncore sufficiently.

It’s almost like higher IMC VDD unlocked the ability to use less DRAM voltage and higher SA. I’m pretty happy with my daily now tbh, even though it’s not crazy. I was kinda hoping to get 6400 36-36-36 at 1.4V to match the imaginary G.Skill bin, but 1.42 works and I’m not gonna put more effort into trying to minimise it down to 1.4. Think I’d need like 99 tRAS and higher tRFC or something, to offset voltage requirements. It would be cool to get it to 1.4V flat.


----------



## bigfootnz

satinghostrider said:


> Hynix needs more SA to work reliably in AVX heavy games. I can get away with 0.95V SA for Samsung but Hynix I get thrown to desktop after a few matches. Using SA auto seems to work the best from my experience. @Nizzen also confirms this when playing Battlefield.
> 
> Best way to check is run TM5 with SA 0.95V on Hynix and you can pass. Run Kahru within a minute or so you'll fail. Changing it to SA auto allowed me to go to 2000% with no errors.


I’m stable on 6400C30 with SA 1.05V on Hynix. That has passed all memory tests and hours and hours of BF5. In my case 0.95V, was not stable on Karhu, but was stable on TM5 and HCI.


----------



## matique

fortecosi said:


> Well, if, IF, Z690i Unify would be better as RAM OC board than the Apex, if that's the case, I'll destroy my Apex with a hammer and buy the Z690i Unify, which cost half of the Apex price in my country.... and never buy an Asus board again. I am able to pay premium price, but I want a premium board if I do so.


Friend of satinghostrider here with the z690i unify  I don't know how well good apex boards does, but the z690i unify is definitely no slouch  Here's a daily stable configured:









Boots & benches till 7200. Also booted at 7466 but it crashed upon windows startup.









Pretty great board imo, for ram OC at least.


----------



## Alexshunter

Guys, the processor limits me to overclcok the memory more than 6400MHz. Is possible to give voltage to something on Asus board which would help to reach 7000Mhz?


----------



## Balaned

matique said:


> Friend of satinghostrider here with the z690i unify  I don't know how well good apex boards does, but the z690i unify is definitely no slouch  Here's a daily stable configured:
> (SNIP)
> Pretty great board imo, for ram OC at least.


That's a nice OC. Would you mind sharing your voltages? Thanks.


----------



## Nizzen

Alexshunter said:


> Guys, the processor limits me to overclcok the memory more than 6400MHz. Is possible to give voltage to something on Asus board which would help to reach 7000Mhz?


Ln2 tend to help 😏


----------



## ObviousCough

Are you guys sure G.Skill is really worth an extra $70? I could buy a Pentium G7400 with that difference!


----------



## CptSpig

ObviousCough said:


> Are you guys sure G.Skill is really worth an extra $70? I could buy a Pentium G7400 with that difference!


I ordered the G.Skill 6400 yesterday and it's out for delivery!


----------



## centvalny

This is fun!
G7400 and samsung ambient winter air 
Max for uncore and core at least on air. Hynix next!


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*centvalny*

You are crazy skilled at memory clocking! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## centvalny

MrTOOSHORT said:


> *centvalny*
> 
> You are crazy skilled at memory clocking! Thanks for sharing.


Thank you TS! Something is holding down with samsung. I will try hynix next


----------



## fortecosi

matique said:


> Friend of satinghostrider here with the z690i unify  I don't know how well good apex boards does, but the z690i unify is definitely no slouch  Here's a daily stable configured:
> View attachment 2548117
> 
> 
> Boots & benches till 7200. Also booted at 7466 but it crashed upon windows startup.
> View attachment 2548118
> 
> 
> Pretty great board imo, for ram OC at least.


Oh, why are you doing this to me. I'm trying to justify the purchase of the Apex!
And now seriously. Your results are amazing and my patience with Asus has expired. Apex out, Unify in. As for RAM OC, I don't think Apex can be better than Unify within the Z690.


----------



## Arni90

centvalny said:


> This is fun!
> G7400 and samsung ambient winter air
> Max for uncore and core at least on air. Hynix next!
> View attachment 2548143


You should get one of those delid kits to run direct die, you're just 200 points from the best score on ambient


----------



## stahlhart

.


----------



## matique

Balaned said:


> That's a nice OC. Would you mind sharing your voltages? Thanks.


Final voltages needed for 6800c32 to be stable;
1.51 vdimm
1.45 txvddq
1.3 MC/VDD2
1.2 SA

Will still try to play around to see if 6800c30 is possible.


----------



## inedenimadam

I have not had the best of luck with the Apex. Closest Dimm slot is more than a little jank. Hopefully the unify-x will be better.


----------



## marco.is.not.80

Uncertainty08 said:


> I'm currently on my first Apex, the XII - Z490, my last board was Maximus Extreme. My first PC was in 1991 when I was 11. I love Overclocking, although I wish I still had as much time to devote to it as when I was younger, but it's definitely a big part of the reason I spend money on Enthusiast Hardware. Not just for gaming but because Overclocking is my hobby.
> I'm definitely buying the Z690 Apex in next month or two. I already have G.Skill DDR5 6000C36 RAM kit, I'm waiting for 12900KS.
> 
> You've had so many sick motherboards. I don't say this much but I'm actually kind of jealous. Impressive to say the least. I don't understand people buying an Apex and wanting to just plug and play either but I'm sure ASUS loves the sales. The more Apex boards they sell the better. I guess people have other reasons for buying Apex. Most reviewers don't recommend them because of the high cost and unique feature set for small group of consumers. I'm looking forward to getting the 12900 and Z690 Apex. For me the quality of the board and BIOS make it worth every penny.
> 
> Although I have to say I recently finally replaced my Corsair Obsidian 800D with a Corsair 7000D White so I really wish I could get a white Apex like the formula. But there's is no way I'd ever choose the Formula over the Apex just so it matches the color of my case. Honestly I don't understand why they even make the formula. I know they make for it profit but water cooling the vrm doesn't really make sense to me. Especially when it's not on the Overclocking focused motherboard. They should combine the Formula and Apex, at least imo.


Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts and obviously I share the same feelings about the Apex so I won't beat a dead horse but I wanted you to know that I agree with you and wish they'd put the sinks with the watercooling barbs into the apex and abandon the formula altogether On the other hand it may be that Asus really wants people to understand that the Apex is either for memory tweaking freaks or for overclockers who want to run the board on ice/LN2/Helium or whatever. 

Anyways, pumped for you that you got your memory already and just need your board and cpu. Good luck!


----------



## cstkl1

marco.is.not.80 said:


> Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts and obviously I share the same feelings about the Apex so I won't beat a dead horse but I wanted you to know that I agree with you and wish they'd put the sinks with the watercooling barbs into the apex and abandon the formula altogether On the other hand it may be that Asus really wants people to understand that the Apex is either for memory tweaking freaks or for overclockers who want to run the board on ice/LN2/Helium or whatever.
> 
> Anyways, pumped for you that you got your memory already and just need your board and cpu. Good luck!


formula now has been segmented more to wc builds. heard there was a black version during launch.. no news

because ddr5 is brand new and ppl want to push ipc rather than waiting . its the best board for early adopters. guess thats y the popularity on it i think hit a all time record.


----------



## centvalny

matique said:


> Friend of satinghostrider here with the z690i unify  I don't know how well good apex boards does, but the z690i unify is definitely no slouch  Here's a daily stable configured:
> View attachment 2548117
> 
> 
> Boots & benches till 7200. Also booted at 7466 but it crashed upon windows startup.
> View attachment 2548118
> 
> 
> Pretty great board imo, for ram OC at least.


Nice board! Just need a bit more fine tuning for ram clockin'

For 7200 here the proper sets on Apex with samsung..even better with hynix









And proper 7400 sets with hynix
7466 should give you 120s read, 114s write, 112s copy and a tad higher lats


----------



## owikh84

Turns out that I just need 1.25v of MC. As for VDD/VDDQ/TX, anything lower than 1.44v will give error in about 1 hour.
I also adjusted some subtimings and still managed to achieve stability.
Again, it is confirmed that my other Hynix kit in the form of Kingston 6000C40 cannot use the same settings and won't be stable at 6400C30.

12900K SP88 - Stock
Maximus Z690 HERO | BIOS 1003
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) 

*2x16GB DDR5-6400 30-37-37-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.44v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.25v* 








* SPD Hub Temp max reading at 63.8c is a bug.


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Nice board! Just need a bit more fine tuning for ram clockin'
> 
> For 7200 here the proper sets on Apex with samsung..even better with hynix
> View attachment 2548179
> 
> 
> And proper 7400 sets with hynix
> 7466 should give you 120s read, 115s read, 112s write and a tad higher lats
> 
> View attachment 2548184


Jezus!! that Hynix profile!!! what black magic are you using there??? I can get to 7400 but not at those timings 😲


----------



## centvalny

nickolp1974 said:


> Jezus!! that Hynix profile!!! what black magic are you using there??? I can get to 7400 but not at those timings 😲


Im still tryin to match your y-cruncher run @ hwbot, strong run!


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Im still tryin to match your y-cruncher run @ hwbot, strong run!


LOL thats where a bucket full of ice comes in!!  just checked, actually not that time, temp too high.


----------



## matique

centvalny said:


> Nice board! Just need a bit more fine tuning for ram clockin'
> 
> For 7200 here the proper sets on Apex with samsung..even better with hynix
> View attachment 2548179
> 
> 
> And proper 7400 sets with hynix
> 7466 should give you 120s read, 114s write, 112s copy and a tad higher lats
> 
> View attachment 2548184


Man I'm too scaredy cat to run it 1.6v+ haha. I still have it on air, maybe next time when I am watercooling the ram or something. DDR5 still too expensive for me to just yeet the voltages. I try to keep my OC with reasonable voltages to run as daily. But those are some amazing numbers man! Pretty amazing, and on an apex too. 

Just tightened up tertiaries a little; not much gain. 









This was the best I could do with my samsung 5600c36 kit.


----------



## centvalny

matique said:


> Man I'm too scaredy cat to run it 1.6v+ haha. I still have it on air, maybe next time when I am watercooling the ram or something. DDR5 still too expensive for me to just yeet the voltages. I try to keep my OC with reasonable voltages to run as daily. But those are some amazing numbers man! Pretty amazing, and on an apex too.
> 
> Just tightened up tertiaries a little; not much gain.
> View attachment 2548197
> 
> 
> This was the best I could do with my samsung 5600c36 kit.
> View attachment 2548199


Imo that early batch of gskill 5600 1.2volts is the best, love voltages and sometimes play hard on xmp settings.
With that msi board you can try to crank the vSA up and probly it will open up the freq.. I saw peep go 1.45 vSA on msi to go 7K and up with really tight sets.


----------



## matique

centvalny said:


> Imo that early batch of gskill 5600 1.2volts is the best, love voltages and sometimes play hard on xmp settings.
> With that msi board you can try to crank the vSA up and probly it will open up the freq.. I saw peep go 1.45 vSA on msi to go 7K and up with really tight sets.


Oh i thought SA didn't matter much for ddr5 since IMC is quite relaxed?


----------



## centvalny

matique said:


> Oh i thought SA didn't matter much for ddr5 since IMC is quite relaxed?


Try it when you clock up to 7200~7466 with tighter sets


----------



## affxct

matique said:


> Man I'm too scaredy cat to run it 1.6v+ haha. I still have it on air, maybe next time when I am watercooling the ram or something. DDR5 still too expensive for me to just yeet the voltages. I try to keep my OC with reasonable voltages to run as daily. But those are some amazing numbers man! Pretty amazing, and on an apex too.
> 
> Just tightened up tertiaries a little; not much gain.
> View attachment 2548197
> 
> 
> This was the best I could do with my samsung 5600c36 kit.
> View attachment 2548199


6667 36-38-38 @ 1.38V?


----------



## matique

affxct said:


> 6667 36-38-38 @ 1.38V?


Yep...


----------



## david12900k

Can someone point me to a writeup or reply with a writeup of how to approach ddr5 OC? I have the Gskill 6400cl32 16x2 dimms and I have seen people posting settings, but none seem to work for me. I want to learn the process itself of OC'g ddr5. Lets say I just get a kit and XMP 1 works. Where do I go from there to get a daily OC? What are the key voltages to track (VDD, VDDQ, SA, MC). What tweaks do I make first? Do I first try to reduce timings then frequency or frequency then timings? If something doesnt work, what should I look for in terms of what changes to make? Example: Lets say I just get my kit and start using XMP 1. Then I want to reduce the CAS latency from 32 to 30 and it becomes unstable. What voltages/timings should I update from there? Im on an ASUS Apex right now and many of the voltages are on AUTO. What is a good program to view the default voltages so I know what it is running at the moment so I can update voltages from there?

Thanks


----------



## Simkin

Loaded the 6200 Hynix Asus profile and changed the primary timings to 32-35-35-52-2T and lowered the VDD/VDDQ to 1.41v, MC 1.25v rest on auto

Booted, ran aida, but memtest5 gave alot of errors in just a few seconds.

When it comes to memory training, is this something thats automatic? I could not find any train/re-train buttons in the BIOS.

Asus apex.


----------



## opt33

Samsung 7000c30 1.67vdd/vddq, 1.38 cpu vdd2/mc, 1.23sa. Need to try max on hynix kit tomorrow when have time.


----------



## affxct

matique said:


> Yep...


How the…, I honestly don’t understand DDR5. That’s just madness.


----------



## matique

affxct said:


> How the…, I honestly don’t understand DDR5. That’s just madness.


yeah i was surprised too that it didn't need much voltage. But the voltage needed form 6666c36 to 6800c36 is crazy, needs like 1.58v+

proof running 1.38v for 6666c36


----------



## Balaned

opt33 said:


> Samsung 7000c30 1.67vdd/vddq, 1.38 cpu vdd2/mc, 1.23sa. Need to try max on hynix kit tomorrow when have time.


Is this the ADATA XPG? That's amazing.


----------



## affxct

matique said:


> yeah i was surprised too that it didn't need much voltage. But the voltage needed form 6666c36 to 6800c36 is crazy, needs like 1.58v+
> 
> proof running 1.38v for 6666c36
> View attachment 2548239


I’m not saying you’re lying at all, I’m just bloody confused and astounded. Damn, you definitely got a gift with that kit.


----------



## Vlados

one of my dimm stopped displaying voltage and temperature information, should I start worrying or just forget about it?


----------



## opt33

Balaned said:


> Is this the ADATA XPG? That's amazing.


gskill 6000u c36 kit


----------



## munternet

Vlados said:


> one of my dimm stopped displaying voltage and temperature information, should I start worrying or just forget about it?


Try swapping them over and see if the problem persists and if it moves slots


----------



## Onewayplay

Hello, maybe this was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but please I need help with some G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 6400 Mhz CL32 memory modules, I have an Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero motherboard, and I can't boot in XMP, I can only in automatic with the memories in 4000 Mhz.

Should I make a return of the rams? I appreciate any response.


----------



## affxct

Onewayplay said:


> Hello, maybe this was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but please I need help with some G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 6400 Mhz CL32 memory modules, I have an Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero motherboard, and I can't boot in XMP, I can only in automatic with the memories in 4000 Mhz.
> 
> Should I make a return of the rams? I appreciate any response.


If XMP doesn’t train then I’d say so.


----------



## Onewayplay

affxct said:


> If XMP doesn’t train then I’d say so.



I contacted an Asus executive, and he told me that this memory is not among those supported by the Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero motherboard, since it was not in the list of supported rams... I don't know what to think of that answer the truth.


----------



## affxct

Onewayplay said:


> I contacted an Asus executive, and he told me that this memory is not among those supported by the Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero motherboard, since it was not in the list of supported rams... I don't know what to think of that answer the truth.


Even if it is true, I can train the cursed Samsung 6000C36 on my Strix-F without issue. I can even do it at XMP 2 with the dumb 1.1 VDD2 setting. There’s no way your kit shouldn’t be training and I think everyone will agree with me in saying that - especially because it’s Hynix. It might not be SA and VDD2 stable out of the box, but there’s no way it should fail training. I don’t want to insult you, but are your DIMMs in A2/B2 and is your CPU cooler tightened enough (mounting pressure affects training in my experience).


----------



## Brandur

Would you say SA and VDD2 Voltage at 1.4V is too much for daily use?


----------



## Talon2016

Onewayplay said:


> Hello, maybe this was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but please I need help with some G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 6400 Mhz CL32 memory modules, I have an Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero motherboard, and I can't boot in XMP, I can only in automatic with the memories in 4000 Mhz.
> 
> Should I make a return of the rams? I appreciate any response.


Running that kit with my Z690 Hero on 0811 without issue. Boots, trains, and passes Stress tests and Battlefield 2042 for hours on end. I can boot 6600 CL32 as well but it usually errors out after a few hundred % coverage in stress test. I haven't been bothered to adjust voltages and tune to get it stable yet. But XMP I with 6400 CL32 is no issue for me on Hero board.

I would clear the CMOS and start fresh.


----------



## AYTOKPATOP

Hello my Z690Pro with Hynix 6000Mhz on XMP sets the VCCSA to 1.34V is that a bit hight? Would I try to lower it a bit?


----------



## jahoney

Hello, working with my cl 32 6400 G.Skill kit, am able to get it stable easily with xmp 1 on my Asus z690-E bios 1003. XMP 2 wouldnt even POST. My overall goal right now is to reduce latency — currently sitting at almost 70 ns.


I’d like to tighten my timings — has anyone had any luck with that? Or should I just try to overclock the frequency?

I have been able to lower my vdd and vddq down to 1.35 (XMP 1 had it at 1.4).Can’t lower memory controller below XMP value of 1.35. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Arni90

Time for some sobering results for people here:









IMC VDD is at 1.325
VCCSA is at +0.06V offset, slightly below 1.0V according to HWiNFO
1.55V VDD and VDDQ is necessary, any lower and I get errors, or I have to increase tCL to 32

A different pair of PMIC-locked Hynix DIMMs could run 6400 C32 on my board and CPU, but @Carillo managed 6400 C30 and 1T on the same DIMMs.
6600 is benchable in most workloads at 1.65V VDD/VDDQ, but fails long-term stability.
1T fails stability instantly at 6133 or higher multiplier.
More IMC VDD helps, but doesn't improve stability enough to make 6600 stable.
A different CPU didn't make any difference.
DRAM clock period doesn't make 6600 stable, except possibly breaking stability.
DLL_bwsel doesn't make 6600 stable.
Raising base clock to 114 MHz, but with DRAM at 6384, breaks stability.
Lowering base clock also breaks stability with DRAM below 6400

All in all, not all that impressive compared to other people with an Apex here. I've got a new board coming in next week to compare, have a strong feeling that I got a poor board.


----------



## Balaned

I'm stuck with this ADATA Samsung until my Corsair Hynix gets here a week from now. This is the best I can do with it and have my games remain stable.


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted with the profile file (the new released ESSENCORE KLEVV DDR5-4800 CL40 in Korea)
One stick on sale is about USD 150 (vat included), cheap and many stocks, so easy to buy.
OC result around 6400~6800Mhz. (some claim that this is a little better than the green Hynix 4800 CL40 stick, different pmic)

















오버클럭추천)ESSENCORE KLEVV DDR5-4800 CL40 (16GB)


데스크탑용 / DDR5 / 4800MHz (PC5-38400) / 램타이밍: CL40-40-40-77 / 1.10V / 램개수: 1개 / 온다이ECC / 히트싱크: 미포함




oversystem.co.kr






Bios VDD 1.63 / VDDQ 1.63 / Mc 1.3 / Sa 1.2
Hwinfo VDD1.56 / VDDQ 1.56










[Bios Profile for the above setup]
https://coolenjoy.net/data/editor/2202/3a0772e48c8e6b416068665cb4f4d687e13d154d.zip

[Edit] another 6800 OC result~
VDD=1.52 VDDQ=1.52 IVR=1.52 SA=1.275 MC=1.375 VPP=1.9


----------



## Onewayplay

affxct said:


> Even if it is true, I can train the cursed Samsung 6000C36 on my Strix-F without issue. I can even do it at XMP 2 with the dumb 1.1 VDD2 setting. There’s no way your kit shouldn’t be training and I think everyone will agree with me in saying that - especially because it’s Hynix. It might not be SA and VDD2 stable out of the box, but there’s no way it should fail training. I don’t want to insult you, but are your DIMMs in A2/B2 and is your CPU cooler tightened enough (mounting pressure affects training in my experience).



I changed the rams to ports A2 and B2. Now it works! Excuse my ignorance but what difference did that make? It works for me both in XMP and XMP2


----------



## affxct

Brandur said:


> Would you say SA and VDD2 Voltage at 1.4V is too much for daily use?


You can definitely run both that high. The real issue is if they’ll even be beneficial. You see roll-over super quickly. When my SA or VDD2 is too high and I boot, my Edge browser extensions immediately begin to crash, accompanied with application errors.


----------



## Brandur

The Unify-X sets them both at 1.4V and they have been stable at 6400Mhz but maybe I will try lower SA to 1.3V and keep IMC at 1.4V.


----------



## neizonnnn

affxct said:


> SA max is around 1.4, but you’ll likely need to use less to be stable anyway, so you’re basically never going to end up daily’ing a dangerous number. VDD2 idk, I think like 1.4-1.5 as well. I just let my board set it now because the new Asus BIOS has a means of calculating it, and it does a damn good job of doing so. I don’t know how Gigabyte, MSI or ASRock implement the rail, but I’ve stopped manually adjusting it. The only thing I absolutely can’t leave default is SA. Mine does 0.9 at JEDEC and 1.25 at anything else. 1.25 works for 6400 but not for 6000-6200 and not for 6600+.


Hey, I guess 1.4 VDD2 is more than enough for daily use, I’ve got 6400 cl30 on Z690 PRO-A & 2X16 OEM HYNIX running stable on 1.3 volts. Anything higher can cause boot troubles and instability.


----------



## affxct

Brandur said:


> The Unify-X sets them both at 1.4V and they have been stable at 6400Mhz but maybe I will try lower SA to 1.3V and keep IMC at 1.4V.


If it’s totally stable then don’t worry about it too much. I might be wrong, but it seems as though some of the boards do well with auto settings. My chip wants 1.25 SA above JEDEC and that’s coincidentally good enough for 6400, but both too and too low for other frequencies.


----------



## affxct

Onewayplay said:


> I changed the rams to ports A2 and B2. Now it works! Excuse my ignorance but what difference did that make? It works for me both in XMP and XMP2


I’m so glad that that was it. On daisy-chain boards the second slot of each channel will always be superior. Not sure about T-topology boards, but for daisy chains you always always always need to do A2/B2. I learnt this a few years back when XMP wouldn’t train in A1/B1 (T-topology Z390 Master funnily enough), and I YOLO switched to A2/B2 and that was how I learnt through trial and error in my early days. Basically, if your board has 4 DIMMs, you’re only ever using the inside slots if you’re doing 4 DIMMs. With 4 DIMMs, a 2 DIMM-exclusive XMP wouldn’t work regardless so the issue kinda transfers between use cases. Although for 4 DIMMs it’s mainly down to single integrity and IMC stress.


----------



## neizonnnn

Hello everyone. I’ve got a bit different mobo from what y’all have, but anyways.
I got 6400 cl30 running stable on Z690 PRO-A & 2x16 OEM Hynix. I even boot 6600 at CL32 and CL36but have stability issues.
At 6600 VDD2 less than 1.35v is very unstable and can cause BSODs when booting OC. SA is auto and is set by mobo at 1.4 volts. So the last thing I guess is the reason of instability is the VDDQ. The 1.435v is the highest available value to set and I guess its not enough at all. Your thoughts?


----------



## affxct

neizonnnn said:


> Hello everyone. I’ve got a bit different mobo from what y’all have, but anyways.
> I got 6400 cl30 running stable on Z690 PRO-A & 2x16 OEM Hynix. I even boot 6600 at CL32 and CL36but have stability issues.
> At 6600 VDD2 less than 1.35v is very unstable and can cause BSODs when booting OC. SA is auto and is set by mobo at 1.4 volts. So the last thing I guess is the reason of instability is the VDDQ. The 1.435v is the highest available value to set and I guess its not enough at all. Your thoughts?


Technically 6400 should require less SA than 6600, but 640030 as a config should require more voltage on VDD/VDDQ/TXVDDQ/VDD2 than 6600C36.

6600C32 should need slightly more voltage on all rails to be stable, but I seriously doubt your chip needs 1.4 SA for 6400. I have a sneaking suspicion that lowering SA might help you stabilise 6600. 1.435V for 6600C32 to me would be an impossible thought, but I’ve seen some crazy stuff so I dunno.

I’m going to go ahead and say 6600C36 for Hynix might even be possible at 1.38-1.4 VDD/Q (rough guess). TX and VDD2 will be slightly lower or higher or equal to VDD/Q and that’s all down to testing. I don’t own a Unify so I’m not sure how it behaves. I think 6600C36 can definitely be done with stock PMIC limits in your case.


----------



## neizonnnn

affxct said:


> Technically 6400 should require less SA than 6600, but 640030 as a config should require more voltage on VDD/VDDQ/TXVDDQ/VDD2 than 6600C36.
> 
> 6600C32 should need slightly more voltage on all rails to be stable, but I seriously doubt your chip needs 1.4 SA for 6400. I have a sneaking suspicion that lowering SA might help you stabilise 6600. 1.435V for 6600C32 to me would be an impossible thought, but I’ve seen some crazy stuff so I dunno.
> 
> I’m going to go ahead and say 6600C36 for Hynix might even be possible at 1.38-1.4 VDD/Q (rough guess). TX and VDD2 will be slightly lower or higher or equal to VDD/Q and that’s all down to testing. I don’t own a Unify so I’m not sure how it behaves. I think 6600C36 can definitely be done with stock PMIC limits in your case.


Thanks, I’ll try lowering voltages at 6600 CL36.


----------



## neizonnnn

affxct said:


> Technically 6400 should require less SA than 6600, but 640030 as a config should require more voltage on VDD/VDDQ/TXVDDQ/VDD2 than 6600C36.
> 
> 6600C32 should need slightly more voltage on all rails to be stable, but I seriously doubt your chip needs 1.4 SA for 6400. I have a sneaking suspicion that lowering SA might help you stabilise 6600. 1.435V for 6600C32 to me would be an impossible thought, but I’ve seen some crazy stuff so I dunno.
> 
> I’m going to go ahead and say 6600C36 for Hynix might even be possible at 1.38-1.4 VDD/Q (rough guess). TX and VDD2 will be slightly lower or higher or equal to VDD/Q and that’s all down to testing. I don’t own a Unify so I’m not sure how it behaves. I think 6600C36 can definitely be done with stock PMIC limits in your case.


I tried manually setting SA to 1.3, 1.35 and 1.4 and all they failed at 7% in Karhu Ramtest. Auto SA is the only one that passes 7%(till 127% and then error)


----------



## affxct

neizonnnn said:


> I tried manually setting SA to 1.3, 1.35 and 1.4 and all they failed at 7% in Karhu Ramtest. Auto SA is the only one that passes 7%(till 127% and then error)


I’m not going to lie, I was kinda afraid you’d say that. If 1.4 SA works, it likely means your chip requires 1.4 SA for 6400. If that is actually true and stepping down SA doesn’t work, then it might mean you require 1.45 SA for 6600. That’s a rough napkin math way of looking at it but yeah. I’ve found SA 1.35 to be nearly as stable as 1.25 which is why it’s weird. I thought perhaps you’d also run into that whole dual SA value stability thing. I’ve found that SA can be stable at a few voltage points given the conditions of the system. Super weird stuff but yeah.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Balaned said:


> I'm stuck with this ADATA Samsung until my Corsair Hynix gets here a week from now. This is the best I can do with it and have my games remain stable.
> View attachment 2548283


Hi, I'm using the same kit but can't make it run at 6600. Could you share your timing and voltage settings?


----------



## neizonnnn

affxct said:


> I’m not going to lie, I was kinda afraid you’d say that. If 1.4 SA works, it likely means your chip requires 1.4 SA for 6400. If that is actually true and stepping down SA doesn’t work, then it might mean you require 1.45 SA for 6600. That’s a rough napkin math way of looking at it but yeah. I’ve found SA 1.35 to be nearly as stable as 1.25 which is why it’s weird. I thought perhaps you’d also run into that whole dual SA value stability thing. I’ve found that SA can be stable at a few voltage points given the conditions of the system. Super weird stuff but yeah.


thats all on 6600, mate)

By the way I got ROUGH stable


----------



## owikh84

Hero is stronger than my Extreme XD.

12900K SP88 - Stock
Maximus Z690 HERO | BIOS 1003
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix)

*2x16GB DDR5-6600 32-40-40-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.55v | TX VDDQ 1.56v | SA 1.25v (Auto) | MC 1.35v*








* SPD Hub Temp max reading at 63.8c is a bug.


----------



## Simkin

Arni90 said:


> Time for some sobering results for people here:
> 
> View attachment 2548281
> 
> 
> IMC VDD is at 1.325
> VCCSA is at +0.06V offset, slightly below 1.0V according to HWiNFO
> 1.55V VDD and VDDQ is necessary, any lower and I get errors, or I have to increase tCL to 32
> 
> A different pair of PMIC-locked Hynix DIMMs could run 6400 C32 on my board and CPU, but @Carillo managed 6400 C30 and 1T on the same DIMMs.
> 6600 is benchable in most workloads at 1.65V VDD/VDDQ, but fails long-term stability.
> 1T fails stability instantly at 6133 or higher multiplier.
> More IMC VDD helps, but doesn't improve stability enough to make 6600 stable.
> A different CPU didn't make any difference.
> DRAM clock period doesn't make 6600 stable, except possibly breaking stability.
> DLL_bwsel doesn't make 6600 stable.
> Raising base clock to 114 MHz, but with DRAM at 6384, breaks stability.
> Lowering base clock also breaks stability with DRAM below 6400
> 
> All in all, not all that impressive compared to other people with an Apex here. I've got a new board coming in next week to compare, have a strong feeling that I got a poor board.


So the 750$ Apex boards could face issues like this? not impressive. I have seen a few people mentioned issues with the Apex boards in here.

Would it not be more likely to be your IMC thats not up to the task, rather then the board itself? I noticed that you tried a different CPU though.


----------



## Balaned

Rena Ryugu said:


> Hi, I'm using the same kit but can't make it run at 6600. Could you share your timing and voltage settings?


Sure.
vdimm 1.4
CPU VDD2 1.22
SA 1.15 SA


----------



## Arni90

Simkin said:


> So the 750$ Apex boards could face issues like this? not impressive. I have seen a few people mentioned issues with the Apex boards in here.
> 
> Would it not be more likely to be your IMC thats not up to the task, rather then the board itself? I noticed that you tried a different CPU though.


The 12900K I'm using could do 4266 on dual rank B-die with the MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 for reference. It's possible the IMC isn't all that great too, but I doubt it.

I can boot 6933 with both DIMMs: Intel Core i9 12900K @ 4900 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
I can also boot 7466 with a single DIMM: Intel Core i9 12900K @ 4900 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Also, if I disable MC0 C1, I can bench y-cruncher at 6800, while disabling MC0 C0 instead doesn't allow me to run y-cruncher any higher. So I suspect it's a matter of poor signal quality to the first slot, as this is the first time ASUS has used SMT DIMM slots.


----------



## sblantipodi

is there someone who understood why Hero is better than Extreme when talking about memory?
what are the technical reasons why I can get 400MHz more on the Hero with the same CPU, same sticks, same voltages and latencies?

it seems that I'm not the only one that experienced the same problem... but why Asus don't comment on this?
is there some design flaws on the extreme?


----------



## affxct

sblantipodi said:


> is there someone who understood why Hero is better than Extreme when talking about memory?
> what are the technical reasons why I can get 400MHz more on the Hero with the same CPU, same sticks, same voltages and latencies?
> 
> it seems that I'm not the only one that experienced the same problem... but why Asus don't comment on this?
> is there some design flaws on the extreme?


Buildzoid can’t boot 6600 reliably on his Apex, I can boot 6800 on my Strix-F. Apparently it’s down to the manufacturing batches and stuff. I don’t really understand it to be dead honest.


----------



## Carillo

Arni90 said:


> The 12900K I'm using could do 4266 on dual rank B-die with the MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 for reference. It's possible the IMC isn't all that great too, but I doubt it.
> 
> I can boot 6933 with both DIMMs: Intel Core i9 12900K @ 4900 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> I can also boot 7466 with a single DIMM: Intel Core i9 12900K @ 4900 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> Also, if I disable MC0 C1, I can bench y-cruncher at 6800, while disabling MC0 C0 instead doesn't allow me to run y-cruncher any higher. So I suspect it's a matter of poor signal quality to the first slot, as this is the first time ASUS has used SMT DIMM slots.


Same results as my first CPU. Max stable 6600 2T. New cpu , 7000 2T stable. Exact same motherboard


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> Same results as my first CPU. Max stable 6600 2T. New cpu , 7000 2T stable. Exact same motherboard


For interest’s sake, are you on an Asus? If so, what were the SP’s between the two?


----------



## Carillo

affxct said:


> For interest’s sake, are you on an Asus? If so, what were the SP’s between the two?


Yes Apex. Sp91 and Sp101


----------



## Maj0

hi, trying to run *32GB (2x 16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 DIMM CL40-40-40-76 Dual Kit with Samsung Chips* on Asus Z690 Apex.
But isnt stable in MemTest - not with default options and sadly neither with XMP I. Only running stable on 2400 Mhz... Anyone any idea ?


----------



## Onewayplay

affxct said:


> I’m so glad that that was it. On daisy-chain boards the second slot of each channel will always be superior. Not sure about T-topology boards, but for daisy chains you always always always need to do A2/B2. I learnt this a few years back when XMP wouldn’t train in A1/B1 (T-topology Z390 Master funnily enough), and I YOLO switched to A2/B2 and that was how I learnt through trial and error in my early days. Basically, if your board has 4 DIMMs, you’re only ever using the inside slots if you’re doing 4 DIMMs. With 4 DIMMs, a 2 DIMM-exclusive XMP wouldn’t work regardless so the issue kinda transfers between use cases. Although for 4 DIMMs it’s mainly down to single integrity and IMC stress.


Thank you very much for your advice and experience, I will always keep it in mind from now on


----------



## affxct

Maj0 said:


> hi, trying to run *32GB (2x 16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 DIMM CL40-40-40-76 Dual Kit with Samsung Chips* on Asus Z690 Apex.
> But isnt stable in MemTest - not with default options and sadly neither with XMP I. Only running stable on 2400 Mhz... Anyone any idea ?


If it trains, then it’s VCCSA. Hardest rail to set by far. Leave TX and IMC VDD auto for now. They generally don’t have to be set unless you’re fine tuning (with the newest BIOS).


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> Yes Apex. Sp91 and Sp101


The crazy thing is both are elite. I have an SP81 haha. Damn your luck is kinda crazy XD.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> The crazy thing is both are elite. I have an SP81 haha. Damn your luck is kinda crazy XD.


Luck


----------



## therealjustin

My Kingston Fury 6000 C40 kit arrived from Amazon today and they are indeed Hynix. Not sure that matters though based on some results. There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for them.


----------



## centvalny

G7400 and green hynix @ 6800 1.64Vdd/dq bios / 1.575Vdd/dq windows real. Renassas secured pmic can't do 1:1 bios:windows vdd/dq
Cpu cache @ 4880









Comparo to samsung @ 6700


----------



## gtz

centvalny said:


> G7400 and green hynix @ 6800 1.64Vdd/dq bios / 1.575Vdd/dq windows real. Renassas secured pmic can't do 1:1 bios:windows vdd/dq
> Cpu cache @ 4880
> View attachment 2548403
> 
> 
> Comparo to samsung @ 6700
> View attachment 2548404


Sorry for the dumb question since I am pretty green to ddr5. So is there a setting in the BIOS that lets you surpass the 1.435 limit of the secure pmic? Or just punching it up, 1.55 in bios could equal 1.5 in windows?


----------



## centvalny

gtz said:


> Sorry for the dumb question since I am pretty green to ddr5. So is there a setting in the BIOS that lets you surpass the 1.435 limit of the secure pmic? Or just punching it up, 1.55 in bios could equal 1.5 in windows?


Starting with bios 0021 Apex bios can partially unlock (only) secured renasas pmic, eventough not 1:1 bios:windows. Not really sure with other board.


----------



## bastian

gtz said:


> Sorry for the dumb question since I am pretty green to ddr5. So is there a setting in the BIOS that lets you surpass the 1.435 limit of the secure pmic? Or just punching it up, 1.55 in bios could equal 1.5 in windows?


Yes, depends on the mobo though. For example, Asus Apex and Extreme have unlock limits settings


----------



## asdkj1740

therealjustin said:


> My Kingston Fury 6000 C40 kit arrived from Amazon today and they are indeed Hynix. Not sure that matters though based on some results. There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for them.


probably the cheapest one at 6000mhz with unlocked pmic and pmic cooling and HYNIX dies guaranteed (still).
sadly they aim at small size for better compatibility...which is stupid on this gen, air cooler is almost dead in 300w territory.
lets wish am5 would have some love to those tier one air coolers.


----------



## munternet

affxct said:


> Buildzoid can’t boot 6600 reliably on his Apex, I can boot 6800 on my Strix-F. Apparently it’s down to the manufacturing batches and stuff. I don’t really understand it to be dead honest.


I'm guessing slopes and skews may still have a part to play with DDR5
It made a big difference to stability and ability on DDR4


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

54/43/45 + 6400c28 1t for daily usage with Dell green kit.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Balaned said:


> Sure.
> vdimm 1.4
> CPU VDD2 1.22
> SA 1.15 SA
> View attachment 2548336


I tried. 6600 won't boot whatsoever, even with 1.45V SA. Is it because of the weak IMC, or the rubbish Samsung chip?


----------



## cstkl1

Rena Ryugu said:


> I tried. 6600 won't boot whatsoever, even with 1.45V SA. Is it because of the weak IMC, or the rubbish Samsung chip?


run diff vddq and txvddq or mess with the calculation thingy.


----------



## sugi0lover

OC result posted with the new released ESSENCORE KLEVV DDR5-4800 CL40 sticks
He tightened only the primary timings and most other timings are auto
Z690 Apex (Bios 1101)
Voltages : SA 1.0v / MC 1.28125v / VDD/VDDQ 1.59v / VPP 1.9v / TX 1.52v


----------



## MC_SULY_514

fixed my asus apex and or g.skill problem with constant BSOD without any overclocks...returned em both lawl.
msi z690 meg unify-x + corsair ddr5 cl36.
first time every buying dominator, very nice build feel.
been smooth sailing since than. how the pc shoulda been since day1. i dont got time to wait for a new bios every month to test.
corsair dominator overclocks nicely too. still playing around but so far been able to handle everything i throw at it.
ran out of 16mm acrylic tubing since i had to redo it since the return..


----------



## lolhaxz

MC_SULY_514 said:


> fixed my asus apex and or g.skill problem with constant BSOD without any overclocks...returned em both lawl.
> msi z690 meg unify-x + corsair ddr5 cl36.
> first time every buying dominator, very nice build feel.
> been smooth sailing since than. how the pc shoulda been since day1. i dont got time to wait for a new bios every month to test.
> corsair dominator overclocks nicely too. still playing around but so far been able to handle everything i throw at it.
> ran out of 16mm acrylic tubing since i had to redo it since the return..


Nice. Yes - ASUS won't be getting my money again for a while.

Hynx or Samsung?


----------



## Balaned

MC_SULY_514 said:


> fixed my asus apex and or g.skill problem with constant BSOD without any overclocks...returned em both lawl.
> msi z690 meg unify-x + corsair ddr5 cl36.
> first time every buying dominator, very nice build feel.
> been smooth sailing since than. how the pc shoulda been since day1. i dont got time to wait for a new bios every month to test.
> corsair dominator overclocks nicely too. still playing around but so far been able to handle everything i throw at it.
> ran out of 16mm acrylic tubing since i had to redo it since the return..


Right now I have a Unify X with ADATA Samsung running well together but I have the exact same RAM as you (Users report Hynix in it.) due in a week from tomorrow, can't wait to test it. I'm also extremely pleased with the Unify-X. Let us know what you can squeeze out of your memory, I'm going to do the same.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> OC result posted with the new released ESSENCORE KLEVV DDR5-4800 CL40 sticks
> He tightened only the primary timings and most other timings are auto
> Z690 Apex (Bios 1101)
> Voltages : SA 1.0v / MC 1.28125v / VDD/VDDQ 1.59v / VPP 1.9v / TX 1.52v
> 
> View attachment 2548441


should be same as green hynix right? both are value rams?
is it 8 layers or 10??


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> should be same as green hynix right? both are value rams?
> is it 8 layers or 10??


They are value rams. one stick costs around USD 150.
The OC result is almost the same as the green Hynix even though pmic looks different from that of green stick.
I don't know about the layers.


----------



## Vlados

strange behavior of sensors on one of the dimms. after all, they are displayed, but on one windows they are visible, but on the other they are not, although I know for sure that it worked on both systems. It doesn't show up in bios either. both sensors show correctly (no duplication)


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> run diff vddq and txvddq or mess with the calculation thingy.


I just have to ask, what does it mean to "mess with the calculation thingy"?

When it's on auto, and VDD/VDDQ is at 1.40V, am I supposed to set it to:
1.1V?
1.4V?
Some higher voltage?


----------



## Carillo

Arni90 said:


> I just have to ask, what does it mean to "mess with the calculation thingy"?
> 
> When it's on auto, and VDD/VDDQ is at 1.40V, am I supposed to set it to:
> 1.1V?
> 1.4V?
> Some higher voltage?


calculation basepoint , same as VDD


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> I just have to ask, what does it mean to "mess with the calculation thingy"?
> 
> When it's on auto, and VDD/VDDQ is at 1.40V, am I supposed to set it to:
> 1.1V?
> 1.4V?
> Some higher voltage?


as per @Carillo reply

vddq/txvddq the culprit why ppl are having issues "training" or "booting"

ddr5 very lenient on vdd training/requirement

example 6400c28 requires vdd 1.55 to be stable but can be trained even at 1.4v booting into windows.


----------



## Forsaken1

lolhaxz said:


> Nice. Yes - ASUS won't be getting my money again for a while.
> 
> Hynx or Samsung?


Hynix. Asus has not been the same since x370 days.
Tachyon domanting non k world at the moment.Where it counts.HWBOT✌.






Intel's Pentium Gold G7400 lives up to its name: absolute Gold!


Read the full article @ HWBOT




hwbot.org


----------



## Brandur

Just installed some Corsair 6200 CL36 on my Unify-X and they were plug&play . I will try to lower timings on the weekend but so far XMP works great. I realy love my Unify-X <3


----------



## affxct

Brandur said:


> Just installed some Corsair 6200 CL36 on my Unify-X and they were plug&play . I will try to lower timings on the weekend but so far XMP works great. I realy love my Unify-X <3


I wonder why VCCSA just doesn't seem to set correctly on ASUS boards. Like I genuinely think it's just VCCSA that messes with everyone's daily configurations. Such a weird platform.


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> calculation basepoint , same as VDD


To clarify, if I wanted to properly stabilise a 1.6V config on my Samsung sticks, hypothetically I'd drop 1.6 into the calculation base point and let it figure out VDD2 by itself? I noticed that letting VDD2 figure itself out on the 1003 BIOS is the play to getting daily stability, but I wasn't sure how the new calculation base point worked.


----------



## fortecosi

Brandur said:


> Just installed some Corsair 6200 CL36 on my Unify-X and they were plug&play . I will try to lower timings on the weekend but so far XMP works great. I realy love my Unify-X <3


I am glad that your XMP profile finally works!


----------



## nmkr

tested new bios a bit, looks like ~ 7300 is my ambient limit with 25c water and mems air at 28c

1.62vdd / 1.35sa / 1.55 IVR


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Why I cant run my ram at 7000? Ram or cpu?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Why I cant run my ram at 7000? Ram or cpu?


 I believe it’s IMC. You need good IMC to boot 7K+. Best chip I’ve tested can run Aida 6933C30 and 7000 only boots to Windows with 3 cores enable. Same chip is running 6400C28 1T stable for daily. 

Also test MC voltage. Some chips just insta bsod with high MC voltage


----------



## opt33

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Why I cant run my ram at 7000? Ram or cpu?


Either imc/cpu or ram can limit. 2 of 4 kits I tried do 7000, only 1 of 4 does 7000 well.

1 samsung kit easily benches 7000c30 with tight timings, and boots 7200, 2nd samsung kit barely does 6800, wont train 7000.
1 hynix kit I returned would not run rated specs and barely train 6800 with very loose settings and high volts, would not train 7000, 2nd kit trains/boots 7000 only with loose settings, but does 6800 with tight settings...just ram hitting frequency wall.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know why write recovery time stucks at 5 whatever number I put in bios? Thanks.


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know why write recovery time stucks at 5 whatever number I put in bios? Thanks.


As far as I know, these ram timings are related.

twrpre = tcwl + twr + 6
twrpden = twrpre -1
so I usually want 6 for twr, so I set twrpre 42, tcwl 30, twr auto, twrpden 41


----------



## centvalny

nmkr said:


> tested new bios a bit, looks like ~ 7300 is my ambient limit with 25c water and mems air at 28c
> 
> 1.62vdd / 1.35sa / 1.55 IVR
> 
> View attachment 2548559


Awesome efficient run! Good cpu ram, 7400 should be easy

I can break up bclk with 7200 32-42-42 but still too slow


----------



## Stockman

opt33 said:


> Either imc/cpu or ram can limit. 2 of 4 kits I tried do 7000, only 1 of 4 does 7000 well.
> 
> 1 samsung kit easily benches 7000c30 with tight timings, and boots 7200, 2nd samsung kit barely does 6800, wont train 7000.
> 1 hynix kit I returned would not run rated specs and barely train 6800 with very loose settings and high volts, would not train 7000, 2nd kit trains/boots 7000 only with loose settings, but does 6800 with tight settings...just ram hitting frequency wall.


Was 1st or 2nd kit the Dominator 6200 c36? If, the one you kept, could you post voltages/timings for 6800? (Apologies if you already have - will search) I haven't been able to get 6800 to train on that kit with Unify-X. Really feels like user error with one or more settings versus any hardware/lottery issue.


----------



## Stockman

To those commenting on SA voltage weirdness: I frequently encounter a problem on Unify-X where SA voltage won't "stick" after saving. I set Override to 1.2 and hwinfo shows 1.35 (which is the Auto value + XMP). OR, after setting Override SA voltage to 1.20, SA no longer shows up in hwinfo (latest beta).

Takes 1 or 2 power off and cmos resets to get it working again.


----------



## GtiJason

sugi0lover said:


> As far as I know, these ram timings are related.
> 
> twrpre = tcwl + twr + 6
> twrpden = twrpre -1
> so I usually want 6 for twr, so I set twrpre 42, tcwl 30, twr auto, twrpden 41


Where did you find info about tWRPDEN = tWRPRE -1 ?
For me they have no problem running the same timings but that certainly may be a bug, especially since Dragon Ball, ASR TC and MemTweakIT sometimes show different values. tWR being one.
So I have been going by WR = WRPDEN - ( CWL+ 8 ) just because it has worked every time from what I've tried


----------



## sugi0lover

GtiJason said:


> Where did you find info about tWRPDEN = tWRPRE -1 ?
> For me they have no problem running the same timings but that certainly may be a bug, especially since Dragon Ball, ASR TC and MemTweakIT sometimes show different values. tWR being one.
> So I have been going by WR = WRPDEN - ( CWL+ 8 ) just because it has worked every time from what I've tried
> 
> View attachment 2548626


Thanks for sharing info.
I will try your way.


----------



## GtiJason

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing info.
> I will try your way.


Def not saying my way is right because I tried yours and it appears to be fine as well. Just wonder if ASR TC, MSI DB or ASUS MemTweak is getting WR right


----------



## timd78

Does anyone know on Gigabyte MB's if there is a seperate setting for the IMC or is it all bundled under VSCCA?

What relation does VDD2 have to the IMC or CPU? 

Im struggling to find final stabilty on my setup. Its all fine but i get 1 error per memtest run and am struggling to tune it out. Hopefully its not the case that my MB / CPU / RAM are just not good for it.


----------



## asdkj1740

timd78 said:


> Does anyone know on Gigabyte MB's if there is a seperate setting for the IMC or is it all bundled under VSCCA?
> 
> What relation does VDD2 have to the IMC or CPU?
> 
> Im struggling to find final stabilty on my setup. Its all fine but i get 1 error per memtest run and am struggling to tune it out. Hopefully its not the case that my MB / CPU / RAM are just not good for it.


vdd2=imc
dram vdd vddq=tx


----------



## sugi0lover

With the new Gskill 6400 CL32 Kit, DDR5 OC performance test!
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.5hz , Cache 5.0Ghz, E cores off)
○ Ram : G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 TRIDENT Z5
○ Ram OC : 7467Mhz-32-42-42-28-320-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1101)
○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD/VDDQ TX 1.600v / VDDQ 1.540v / MC 1.350v / SA 1.350v 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony.


----------



## affxct

Guys, I’m considering grabbing a B660-I Strix because 2 DIMM 8 layer options are scarce where I live and this board seems like great value. Do you guys think it would be able to max out close to the Z690-I and perhaps even do 1T?

There’s also something else I wanted to ask. If I can boot 6600-6800 at a given voltage on one board, can switching to a better board significantly reduce voltage requirements? I’ve only switched boards within a given platform/while working with a particular kit twice so I haven’t been able to observe much in practicality.


----------



## Carillo

7500 c32 , GB3 just for fun.


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> 7500 c32 , GB3 just for fun.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548653


Crazy 🤯🥳🤩


----------



## opt33

Stockman said:


> Was 1st or 2nd kit the Dominator 6200 c36? If, the one you kept, could you post voltages/timings for 6800? (Apologies if you already have - will search) I haven't been able to get 6800 to train on that kit with Unify-X. Really feels like user error with one or more settings versus any hardware/lottery issue.


I you cant get it to train, the most likely "user error" is using a cpu/imc that wont do 6800 or a ddr5 kit that wont do 6800. If IMC and ram are both capable, it is effortless to get any reasonable settings to train, if either is not up to task, it is a different ballgame. 

I am using the corsair dominator 6200c36 for 24/7, 6400-c32-39 cr1 1.47vdd/ddq, 1.33mc/vdd2, 1.18 sa. 6800 c32 required much higher volts than 64001T, ie 1.56+ vdd, 1.35 vdd2, 1.2sa to do short runs tm5, so opted for 64001T. I just quickly booted this up didnt set sa correctly, but for training doesnt matter.


----------



## satinghostrider

opt33 said:


> I you cant get it to train, the most likely "user error" is using a cpu/imc that wont do 6800 or a ddr5 kit that wont do 6800. If IMC and ram are both capable, it is effortless to get any reasonable settings to train, if either is not up to task, it is a different ballgame.
> 
> I am using the corsair dominator 6200c36 for 24/7, 6400-c32-39 cr1 1.47vdd/ddq, 1.33mc/vdd2, 1.18 sa. 6800 c32 required much higher volts than 64001T, ie 1.56+ vdd, 1.35 vdd2, 1.2sa to do short runs tm5, so opted for 64001T. I just quickly booted this up didnt set sa correctly, but for training doesnt matter.
> View attachment 2548658


What's your CPU SP Rating btw?


----------



## opt33

satinghostrider said:


> What's your CPU SP Rating btw?


sp93

even 6800c30 easily trains with 1.55vdd, tm5 would spit errors no doubt.


----------



## opt33

Stockman said:


> To those commenting on SA voltage weirdness: I frequently encounter a problem on Unify-X where SA voltage won't "stick" after saving. I set Override to 1.2 and hwinfo shows 1.35 (which is the Auto value + XMP). OR, after setting Override SA voltage to 1.20, SA no longer shows up in hwinfo (latest beta).
> 
> Takes 1 or 2 power off and cmos resets to get it working again.


If you have unify-x like mine, you need to use A22 bios, earlier ones have multiple bugs. On A22 (listed on msi download site) whatever I set for sa works correctly. I can leave sa on "auto" and enter manual number in box below which makes "auto" manual mode, or change "auto" to "override" and enter manual setting in box. Both work correctly, never had that bug on A22. 

Also, A22 was more stable at higher frequencies, ie memory stability improvement and bug fixes. A22 is listed on msi site as beta, but if that is beta stage, then A0 and A1 listed are barely alpha stage, ie horribly bugged.


----------



## david12900k

Carillo said:


> 7500 c32 , GB3 just for fun.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548653


Are you running with E cores off? Would you mind posting your full settings? I have gskill 6400cl32 kit and am struggling to get 6600cl32 with my settings. I have e-cores enabled


----------



## david12900k

Is anyone running a good daily gskill 6400cl32?
So far im stable with 6400 30-38-38-30 2T, but I cannot get 6600 cl30 stable and I cannot get 6400 cl30 or cl32 stable with 1T


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> Is anyone running a good daily gskill 6400cl32?
> So far im stable with 6400 30-38-38-30 2T, but I cannot get 6600 cl30 stable and I cannot get 6400 cl30 or cl32 stable with 1T


stable 24/7 6400 CR1. *VDD 1.41/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.415v | MC 1.25v*


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> stable 24/7 6400 CR1. *VDD 1.41/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.415v | MC 1.25v*


What exactly is TX VDDQ? I tried to search it up, but i dont know which setting in the ASUS bios that is. Is that the IVR Transmission Voltage?


----------



## fortecosi

david12900k said:


> What exactly is TX VDDQ? I tried to search it up, but i dont know which setting in the ASUS bios that is. Is that the IVR Transmission Voltage?


Yes.


----------



## david12900k

fortecosi said:


> Yes.


Thanks!


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> stable 24/7 6400 CR1. *VDD 1.41/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.415v | MC 1.25v*


So im going to try these settings. Do you recommend starting with just the primary timings you had or primary + secondary or primary, secondary and tertiary? Additionally, would it hurt to bump some of the voltages if not stable, and if so, which would you start out with?


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> stable 24/7 6400 CR1. *VDD 1.41/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.415v | MC 1.25v*


Would you mind sharing your .CMO file for this or the full text bios settings? I wanna compare our values


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> Would you mind sharing your .CMO file for this or the full text bios settings? I wanna compare our values


I am at work right now. I might be able to send tonight.


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> I am at work right now. I might be able to send tonight.


I appreciate it. The settings you run did not work for me, but this is a good starting point


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> I appreciate it. The settings you run did not work for me, but this is a good starting point


Try 32-39-39-102 VDD and VDDQ at 1.4v Leave everything else on auto.


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> Try 32-39-39-102 VDD and VDDQ at 1.4v Leave everything else on auto.


This instantly threw a system service exception bsod when running tm5


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> This instantly threw a system service exception bsod when running tm5


Try memtest86 in the bios so you don't corrupt the OS. Don't use TM5.


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> Try memtest86 in the bios so you don't corrupt the OS. Don't use TM5.


I'm using Windows loaded onto a Samsung t7 external SSD so I don't corrupt my main os


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> I'm using Windows loaded onto a Samsung t7 external SSD so I don't corrupt my main os


With the memtest86 in the bios you can make changes and tune memory with booting into windows. I tried using TM5 I could never make it work right. I use memtest86 for tuning and the Memtest Pro for final stability. With these two I never have memory related crashes.


----------



## Forsaken1

Thanks to Gigabyte & sergmann.

1T possible on TACHYON Z690.
Time to crank it up.


----------



## Feklar

How much voltage 1.21 gigawatts?


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> With the memtest86 in the bios you can make changes and tune memory with booting into windows. I tried using TM5 I could never make it work right. I use memtest86 for tuning and the Memtest Pro for final stability. With these two I never have memory related crashes.


I have found that TM5 with anta777 profile works out crashes really well. I just cant figure out what im missing. I have 6400 CL30 2T stable, but I cant get 6600 CL30 2T stable and I cant get 6400 C28 2T stable, and i cant get 6400 CL30 1T stable. I dont know what im missing. Im trying to adjust VDD/VDDQ/VDDTX/SA/MC but i just dont understand this


----------



## kazetsubakii

karhu ramtest w/cache threw an error at 32000% (10 hours) and I have no idea what to do to because everything else was good. TM5 777 20 pass, Adia Stress, MemtestPro etc

Dunno if this is Ring, Ecore L2, L3, or mem at this point.

12900k on Asus z690-I. 1003bios
50p/40e/44r/ 1.35v LLC5 ecore L2 @ 1.2v
GSkill Samsung 6000 @ 32-34-34-74-2T 1.435v/1.435, TRFC 420 / 16384 TREFI - all else auto
1.3mc/1.25sa (Too much Higher MC and SA throws errors way early, too much lower MC and SA = no post)

Any idea which voltage I should change to get past this 32000% error? Investing 10 hours to test per minor change is killing me. Built this box 2 weeks ago, still stress testing before I use it for 24x7 system...

Any help or suggestion is more than appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Balaned

kazetsubakii said:


> karhu ramtest w/cache threw an error at 32000% (10 hours) and I have no idea what to do to because everything else was good. (SNIP) Built this box 2 weeks ago, still stress testing before I use it for 24x7 system...


Holy cow, I'm seriously lacking in my stability testing!


----------



## kazetsubakii

Balaned said:


> Holy cow, I'm seriously lacking in my stability testing!


I mean I just let it run while im sleeping or while im working. I would be comfortable with 12 hours of no errors on Karhu Ramtest w/ Cache Enabled (not default).

Anyone know what an ok/max voltage for ecore L2 is? Currently have at 1.2 right now, up from 1.1 Auto. Can I go up to 1.25v without issue etc?


----------



## opt33

kazetsubakii said:


> karhu ramtest w/cache threw an error at 32000% (10 hours) and I have no idea what to do to because everything else was good. TM5 777 20 pass, Adia Stress, MemtestPro etc
> 
> Dunno if this is Ring, Ecore L2, L3, or mem at this point.
> 
> 12900k on Asus z690-I. 1003bios
> 50p/40e/44r/ 1.35v LLC5 ecore L2 @ 1.2v
> GSkill Samsung 6000 @ 32-34-34-74-2T 1.435v/1.435, TRFC 420 / 16384 TREFI - all else auto
> 1.3mc/1.25sa (Too much Higher MC and SA throws errors way early, too much lower MC and SA = no post)
> 
> Any idea which voltage I should change to get past this 32000% error? Investing 10 hours to test per minor change is killing me. Built this box 2 weeks ago, still stress testing before I use it for 24x7 system...
> 
> Any help or suggestion is more than appreciated. Thanks!


I would try 32-35-35 with trfc 460. Both my samsung kits will do 6200c321T, but neither will run trfc that low without errors up to 1.45v, 450-460 range is what mine does. hynix will go much lower trfc.

To test, can lower vdd/vddq until errors consistently within few minutes. Then back off trfc until can go 30-60+mins without error, then use that trfc and go back to 1.43v.


----------



## kazetsubakii

opt33 said:


> I would try 32-35-35 with trfc 460. Both my samsung kits will do 6200c321T, but neither will run trfc that low without errors up to 1.45v, 450-460 range is what mine does. hynix will go much lower trfc.
> 
> To test, can lower vdd/vddq until errors consistently within few minutes. Then back off trfc until can go 30-60+mins without error, then use that trfc and go back to 1.43v.


ok, will try. Thank you! I was checking out your posts before posting and seen you had a similar kit with similar timings etc. What was the reason for 35-35 vs 34-34 etc? Could you not get those stable with any voltage or did it require to much you were comfortable with?

Ill also try Trfc at 460 first, easy change and will test tonight. ty!


----------



## bigfootnz

kazetsubakii said:


> karhu ramtest w/cache threw an error at 32000% (10 hours) and I have no idea what to do to because everything else was good. TM5 777 20 pass, Adia Stress, MemtestPro etc
> 
> Dunno if this is Ring, Ecore L2, L3, or mem at this point.
> 
> 12900k on Asus z690-I. 1003bios
> 50p/40e/44r/ 1.35v LLC5 ecore L2 @ 1.2v
> GSkill Samsung 6000 @ 32-34-34-74-2T 1.435v/1.435, TRFC 420 / 16384 TREFI - all else auto
> 1.3mc/1.25sa (Too much Higher MC and SA throws errors way early, too much lower MC and SA = no post)
> 
> Any idea which voltage I should change to get past this 32000% error? Investing 10 hours to test per minor change is killing me. Built this box 2 weeks ago, still stress testing before I use it for 24x7 system...
> 
> Any help or suggestion is more than appreciated. Thanks!


I would go with ring at 42 or 41. With E cores enabled, ring at 44 is little bit too high.


----------



## kazetsubakii

bigfootnz said:


> I would go with ring at 42 or 41. With E cores enabled, ring at 44 is little bit too high.


Ok thanks, will test. Is there a good ring/cache only test that doesn't really matter what my mem settings/timing is?


----------



## bigfootnz

kazetsubakii said:


> Ok thanks, will test. Is there a good ring/cache only test that doesn't really matter what my mem settings/timing is?


What I saw here, and in my case, most of people with E cores enabled run up to 42. Yes, there are some excellent CPU's which can go higher but not many of them. If you want to be on safe side while you are testing memory you can set ring to auto, which will be 36 with E cores active and 47 when they are not active. Then you can start testing at 40/41...

What SP is your CPU?


----------



## opt33

kazetsubakii said:


> ok, will try. Thank you! I was checking out your posts before posting and seen you had a similar kit with similar timings etc. What was the reason for 35-35 vs 34-34 etc? Could you not get those stable with any voltage or did it require to much you were comfortable with?
> 
> Ill also try Trfc at 460 first, easy change and will test tonight. ty!


32-34 and trfc below 430 caused random errors on mine with memtest overnight at higher volts than you are using.


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> I appreciate it. The settings you run did not work for me, but this is a good starting point


I was able to get a text file for my settings.


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> I was able to get a text file for my settings.


Thanks a ton!


----------



## kazetsubakii

bigfootnz said:


> What I saw here, and in my case, most of people with E cores enabled run up to 42. Yes, there are some excellent CPU's which can go higher but not many of them. If you want to be on safe side while you are testing memory you can set ring to auto, which will be 36 with E cores active and 47 when they are not active. Then you can start testing at 40/41...
> 
> What SP is your CPU?


SP82
P91
E66


----------



## bigfootnz

kazetsubakii said:


> SP82
> P91
> E66


My is SP89 and max ring what I can do is x42.


----------



## kazetsubakii

bigfootnz said:


> My is SP89 and max ring what I can do is x42.


So I can pass all tests I throw at this at 44 ring except for when I go more than 10 hours on RamTest. Shouldn't I be failing other stress tests if 44 is too high, much earlier in my test cycle? Is there any good test I can throw at the cache to really stress out the instability?

Edit: Tests I've passed at 44ring: Adia stress 8h, CB23 30m x 4 runs, OCCT, TM5 777 20 passes, MemTestPro 7.0 to 500%

I would have assumed it would have crashed, BSODd, anything if ring was unstable by now unless im missing something.

But I have ring set to 42 right now, no changes in voltages, running RamTest overnight to see what I get in the morning. will report back (Trying to get to 12h or about ~40,000% stable before I call it good)


----------



## Carillo

Keep pushing! 

7622 c32 Gb3 PASS!


----------



## affxct

kazetsubakii said:


> karhu ramtest w/cache threw an error at 32000% (10 hours) and I have no idea what to do to because everything else was good. TM5 777 20 pass, Adia Stress, MemtestPro etc
> 
> Dunno if this is Ring, Ecore L2, L3, or mem at this point.
> 
> 12900k on Asus z690-I. 1003bios
> 50p/40e/44r/ 1.35v LLC5 ecore L2 @ 1.2v
> GSkill Samsung 6000 @ 32-34-34-74-2T 1.435v/1.435, TRFC 420 / 16384 TREFI - all else auto
> 1.3mc/1.25sa (Too much Higher MC and SA throws errors way early, too much lower MC and SA = no post)
> 
> Any idea which voltage I should change to get past this 32000% error? Investing 10 hours to test per minor change is killing me. Built this box 2 weeks ago, still stress testing before I use it for 24x7 system...
> 
> Any help or suggestion is more than appreciated. Thanks!


6000 32-34-34 on Samsung’s should require 1.35-1.37V depending on how good your ICs are. I would suggest dropping ring down to 42. I have the exact same settings as you nearly, but my ring caps out at 40. In terms of L2, I’ve found raising it too high decreases stability. It might be best to leave it Auto. For SA at 6000 I’d say no more than 1.15V, and VDD2 can be left on Auto as the board will do a good enough job at this kind of a speed bin. You can also increase tREFI to 65536 without issue. VDD2 significantly helps DRAM training because it’s a voltage applied at the DRAM pins in the socket. I know this a thing because the washer mod screwed my mounting pressure and borked my ability to even train XMP until I ripped them back out.


----------



## affxct

kazetsubakii said:


> So I can pass all tests I throw at this at 44 ring except for when I go more than 10 hours on RamTest. Shouldn't I be failing other stress tests if 44 is too high, much earlier in my test cycle? Is there any good test I can throw at the cache to really stress out the instability?
> 
> Edit: Tests I've passed at 44ring: Adia stress 8h, CB23 30m x 4 runs, OCCT, TM5 777 20 passes, MemTestPro 7.0 to 500%
> 
> I would have assumed it would have crashed, BSODd, anything if ring was unstable by now unless im missing something.
> 
> But I have ring set to 42 right now, no changes in voltages, running RamTest overnight to see what I get in the morning. will report back (Trying to get to 12h or about ~40,000% stable before I call it good)


Use Linpack or IBT V2 to test ring. IBT V2 has cut my stress test duration down immensely. I had always used it, but with ADL in particular, it seems to catch any sort of ring/memory/IMC/core instability without failure if you test 4GB of memory up to 30 runs. I don’t think there’s a way for an unstable system to pass that.


----------



## affxct

kazetsubakii said:


> SP82
> P91
> E66


Yeah our SPs are almost identical lmao. It’s actually kinda reassuring that we run nearly identical settings.


----------



## bigfootnz

kazetsubakii said:


> So I can pass all tests I throw at this at 44 ring except for when I go more than 10 hours on RamTest. Shouldn't I be failing other stress tests if 44 is too high, much earlier in my test cycle? Is there any good test I can throw at the cache to really stress out the instability?
> 
> Edit: Tests I've passed at 44ring: Adia stress 8h, CB23 30m x 4 runs, OCCT, TM5 777 20 passes, MemTestPro 7.0 to 500%
> 
> I would have assumed it would have crashed, BSODd, anything if ring was unstable by now unless im missing something.
> 
> But I have ring set to 42 right now, no changes in voltages, running RamTest overnight to see what I get in the morning. will report back (Trying to get to 12h or about ~40,000% stable before I call it good)


In my experience with 12900k, I can easily pass any TM5 config or Memtest pro but Karhu is much harder. I think that of all memory tests only Karhu has possibility to also test cache speed. I do not find Aida tests so good.

Let’s see your test results with ring x42.


----------



## sugi0lover

[Stable daily 24/7 OC setup]
- My next target OC : Stable 7200Mhz
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.5hz , Cache 5.0Ghz, E cores off)
○ Ram : G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 TRIDENT Z5
○ Ram OC : 7000Mhz-30-40-40-28-320-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9902)
○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD&VDDQ TX 1.600v / VDDQ 1.540v / MC&SA 1.350v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. 

BIOS Profile (CMO) link below

Please adjust values according to your system~
I tuned off bluetooth, RGB, Audio because I don't use them. Turn them on if necessary~
Meet Google Drive – One place for all your files


Edit : High Res. Pic DDR5 Stable OC : 7000Mhz CL30 (12900K + Z690 Apex)


----------



## centvalny

Carillo said:


> Keep pushing!
> 
> 7622 c32 Gb3 PASS!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548736


Strong run! Hynix 7200c32 air is the new baseline for apex


----------



## Carillo

centvalny said:


> Strong run! Hynix 7200c32 air is the new baseline for apex


Thanks mate. Yeah probably 😅


----------



## newls1

Will this be Hynix Memory?? Which mem kit would you go with out of these 3??









G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6000 PC5-48000 CL36 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center


Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is the latest G.SKILL flagship memory kits designed for ultra-high extreme performance on next-gen DDR5 platforms.




www.microcenter.com












Micro Center - Computers and Electronics


Micro Center - Computers and Electronics - Thousands of products to buy: desktops, laptops, monitors, build your own PC parts, upgrades, digital imaging, printing supplies, portable devices, audio equipment, software, video games, movies, tech books, plus repair service, store hours, directions...




www.microcenter.com












Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6200 PC5-49600 CL36 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit CMT32GX5M2X6200 - - Micro Center


Get it now! Push the limits of performance with CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 Memory optimized for Intel. DDR5 delivers higher frequencies and greater capacities than previous generation memory, helping your system power through complex tasks faster than ever before.




www.microcenter.com


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Will this be Hynix Memory?? G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6000 PC5-48000 CL36 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit 6000J362X16Z5RK - Black - Micro Center


one person earlier bought that 6000c36-36-36 kit and was samsung. the 6400c32-39 version is hynix.


----------



## centvalny

newls1 said:


> Will this be Hynix Memory?? G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6000 PC5-48000 CL36 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit 6000J362X16Z5RK - Black - Micro Center


Samsung


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Will this be Hynix Memory?? Which mem kit would you go with out of these 2??
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6000 PC5-48000 CL36 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit 6000J362X16Z5RK - Black - Micro Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Micro Center - Computers and Electronics
> 
> 
> Micro Center - Computers and Electronics - Thousands of products to buy: desktops, laptops, monitors, build your own PC parts, upgrades, digital imaging, printing supplies, portable devices, audio equipment, software, video games, movies, tech books, plus repair service, store hours, directions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6200 PC5-49600 CL36 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit CMT32GX5M2X6200 - - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! Push the limits of performance with CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 Memory optimized for Intel. DDR5 delivers higher frequencies and greater capacities than previous generation memory, helping your system power through complex tasks faster than ever before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com


No, next question


----------



## newls1

dominator kit decent then or just get the 6400 gskills? certainly not looking to break records here, just looking for a stable and fast 6000+ mem


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> dominator kit decent then or just get the 6400 gskills? certainly not looking to break records here, just looking for a stable and fast 6000+ mem


Samsung can easily do 6000-6800 as long as you have a reasonable cooling solution and a good enough IMC. They also perform quite well even with less impressive CAS than Hynix. For some reason I’ve found that matching CL, RCD and RP on Samsung sticks yields higher bandwidth scores in Aida64 and nearly identical scores in GB3 to a configuration with slightly lower tCAS. Weird stuff.


----------



## newls1

Thinking then if the 6000J CAS 36 Gskills will do 6000 reliably, then saving 150$ is certainly important to me.. Think the Samsung 6000 kit might reach 6400 then, that would be a max goal for myself. Cooling wont be an issue i think, 6 140mm fans will be blowing down on them


----------



## Balaned

newls1 said:


> Thinking then if the 6000J CAS 36 Gskills will do 6000 reliably, then saving 150$ is certainly important to me.. Think the Samsung 6000 kit might reach 6400 then, that would be a max goal for myself. Cooling wont be an issue i think, 6 140mm fans will be blowing down on them


I have the ADATA 6000 Samsung kit running well at 6600 CL36. It hasn't given me any issues but I also haven't run any half-day stability tests.


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> Thinking then if the 6000J CAS 36 Gskills will do 6000 reliably, then saving 150$ is certainly important to me.. Think the Samsung 6000 kit might reach 6400 then, that would be a max goal for myself. Cooling wont be an issue i think, 6 140mm fans will be blowing down on them


I’ll send you some screenshots of my reboot-stable 6400 that I cooked up over the last week.


----------



## nickolp1974

Carillo said:


> Keep pushing!
> 
> 7622 c32 Gb3 PASS!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548736


Thats Insane, maybe time to give up these green sticks, new cpu 1st though. Keep pushin!!


----------



## Carillo

nickolp1974 said:


> Thats Insane, maybe time to give up these green sticks, new cpu 1st though. Keep pushin!!


Thanks man  Those G.skill is really strong


----------



## truehighroller1

I said hell with it because microcenter near me had team force 6400's and canceled my corsair order and picked these bad boys up. I will be getting my new water block and the apex today as well.


----------



## Carillo

Can anyone with Unify-x or Unify ITX publish their best GB3 results ? Thanks in advance


----------



## newls1

@bscool what ram did you end up going with?


----------



## affxct

Is 1T pretty much reserved for only the 2 DIMM boards on ADL?


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> Thinking then if the 6000J CAS 36 Gskills will do 6000 reliably, then saving 150$ is certainly important to me.. Think the Samsung 6000 kit might reach 6400 then, that would be a max goal for myself. Cooling wont be an issue i think, 6 140mm fans will be blowing down on them




























A bit late, but here you go. The bottom screenshot is dated the 10th and shows my initial IBT V2 + HCI Pro. The test from 13th is TM5 passing anta777 extreme1. The last is dated to the 16th, and is of my OC passing IBT V2 again but with 5.0 P-cores and 4.7 Ring (harder for my chip than 5.0/4.0/4.0 because the cache on it sucks).


----------



## newls1

Thank you so much for the reply and settings, so very much appreciate you


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> I was able to get a text file for my settings.


No luck. Tried your exact settings, then similar settings. Tried loosening the timings, increasing the volts, nothing seemed to work. Not sure where im going wrong here


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> No luck. Tried your exact settings, then similar settings. Tried loosening the timings, increasing the volts, nothing seemed to work. Not sure where im going wrong here


Did you clear cmo's boot into bios then F5 for optimize defaults before entering the settings?


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> Did you clear cmo's boot into bios then F5 for optimize defaults before entering the settings?


I did not. Let me give that a try


----------



## Carillo

7200 c32. So easy on Apex. 7400 next


----------



## david12900k

Carillo said:


> 7200 c32. So easy on Apex. 7400 next
> 
> 
> View attachment 2548835


Holy cow, thats crazy. What voltages have you been running for 6800, 7000, and 7200?
VDD, VDDQ, VDDTX, SA, and MC?


----------



## david12900k

CptSpig said:


> Did you clear cmo's boot into bios then F5 for optimize defaults before entering the settings?


F5'd, cleared cmos, f5'd again and re-typed in all of the settings you had from your CMO. No luck


----------



## kazetsubakii

Ok - took all the advice at once since I cant make 1 change and do a whole day test.

I loosened TRFC from 420 to 460. I lowered L2 Cache voltage from 1.2 to 1.15. And lowered ring from 44 to 42. No errors for as long as I can test anything. Not sure which setting fixed me, but now that I know I'm good here, I can try 1 at a time and see what's up. Will play with lowering some voltages too probably just to see. I really appreciate all your guys help. Best OC forum












opt33 said:


> I would try 32-35-35 with trfc 460. Both my samsung kits will do 6200c321T, but neither will run trfc that low without errors up to 1.45v, 450-460 range is what mine does. hynix will go much lower trfc.
> 
> To test, can lower vdd/vddq until errors consistently within few minutes. Then back off trfc until can go 30-60+mins without error, then use that trfc and go back to 1.43v.





affxct said:


> 6000 32-34-34 on Samsung’s should require 1.35-1.37V depending on how good your ICs are. I would suggest dropping ring down to 42. I have the exact same settings as you nearly, but my ring caps out at 40. In terms of L2, I’ve found raising it too high decreases stability. It might be best to leave it Auto. For SA at 6000 I’d say no more than 1.15V, and VDD2 can be left on Auto as the board will do a good enough job at this kind of a speed bin. You can also increase tREFI to 65536 without issue. VDD2 significantly helps DRAM training because it’s a voltage applied at the DRAM pins in the socket. I know this a thing because the washer mod screwed my mounting pressure and borked my ability to even train XMP until I ripped them back out.





affxct said:


> Use Linpack or IBT V2 to test ring. IBT V2 has cut my stress test duration down immensely. I had always used it, but with ADL in particular, it seems to catch any sort of ring/memory/IMC/core instability without failure if you test 4GB of memory up to 30 runs. I don’t think there’s a way for an unstable system to pass that.





bigfootnz said:


> In my experience with 12900k, I can easily pass any TM5 config or Memtest pro but Karhu is much harder. I think that of all memory tests only Karhu has possibility to also test cache speed. I do not find Aida tests so good.
> 
> Let’s see your test results with ring x42.


----------



## SoldierRBT

6600C28 1T. Seems GB3 likes high frequencies. Latency is pretty good though.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know why I cant boot 6400c26 but use memtweakit to change it from c28 to c26 without an issue and it passes tm5.


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> @bscool what ram did you end up going with?


Gskill 6400 kit.


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> Gskill 6400 kit.


have you had time to play with them yet


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> have you had time to play with them yet


Yeah a little bit. I would go with Unify X from my time with Apex and 6400 kit.

I think with the 4 dim boards you will be less likely do hit 6400 like you want. Even Apex at 6600 is tough for me to get memtest stable. Could be I dont have the best ram bin or IMC but on ddr4 my IMC could get 4266c16 memtest stable on DR b die so I think my IMC is good.

I am thinking about trying a Unify X. It is the grass is greener on the other side of the fence syndrome. If I got the Unify I would want to try the Apex.....never ends


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> Yeah a little bit. I would go with Unify X from my time with Apex and 6400 kit.
> 
> I think with the 4 dim boards you will be less likely do hit 6400 like you want. Even Apex at 6600 is tough for me to get memtest stable. Could be I dont have the best ram bin or IMC but on ddr4 my IMC could get 4266c16 memtest stable on DR b die so I think my IMC is good.
> 
> I am thinking about trying a Unify X. It is the grass is greener on the other side of the fence syndrome. If I got the Unify I would want to try the Apex.....never ends


We had this talk already sir LOL... Told ya MSI is my board of choice, but you said otherwise


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know why I cant boot 6400c26 but use memtweakit to change it from c28 to c26 without an issue and it passes tm5.


To me, changing CL inside Windows doesn't work as the changed CL. From CL28 in Bios, I can change it to CL24 in Windows and pass TM5, but the performance is still CL28. Just the look is CL24.


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> We had this talk already sir LOL... Told ya MSI is my board of choice, but you said otherwise


I never said other wise. I prefer asus bios. Also the overall look of the Apex is better in my opinion. I have bought both msi and asus the last few gens.

What i was referring to about you going with Unify X is you had been looking at cheaper 4 dim boards and I doubt you will hit 6400 on a cheaper 4 dim board. Unless you get lucky or have skillz tuning memory slim chance of hitting 6400 with tight subs on a cheaper 4 dim board.


----------



## Mappi75

How many threads should i set in HCI MemTestPro 7.0 with a 12700K ?

Thanks!


----------



## Nizzen

After rigorous testing of ASRock, ASUS, Biostar, GIGABYTE and MSI motherboards with Intel processors, TEAMGROUP announced today that all of its T-FORCE DDR5 gaming memory have received Intel XMP3.0 certification.









Team Group XMP 3.0 Certification for DDR5 Memory


After rigorous testing of ASRock, ASUS, Biostar, GIGABYTE and MSI motherboards with Intel processors, TEAMGROUP announced today that all of its T-FORCE DDR5 gaming memory have received Intel XMP3.0 ce...




www.guru3d.com


----------



## bl4ckdot

Carillo said:


> Can anyone with Unify-x or Unify ITX publish their best GB3 results ? Thanks in advance












I wish I was able to push more than 7030


----------



## Nizzen

bl4ckdot said:


> View attachment 2548893


Nice result 
Water temperature?


----------



## bl4ckdot

Nizzen said:


> Nice result
> Water temperature?


Around 5°C ish, mora was outside for this


----------



## ldt

Anyone here help me MSI Dragon Ball download link , Thanks in advanced


----------



## opt33

ldt said:


> Anyone here help me MSI Dragon Ball download link , Thanks in advanced


links for download in the ddr4 thread, first post.








[Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


Welcome to the Daily Memory Overclock thread for DDR4 memory on the Z690 and Z790 Chipset (LGA1700). Z690 Tools ASRock Timing Configurator (4.0.13) ASUS MemTweakIt (20210910) MSI Dragon Ball (1.0.0.08) MSI Dragon Power (1.0.0.6)




www.overclock.net


----------



## managerman

Looking for a little advice. I just picked up a set of the new Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v memory. I am using a Maximus Extreme Glacial board (BIOS 1101) with a 12900k. Chip is SP86. I have reset the cmos and loaded the defaults in the BIos. I have set XMP1 (and 2) for the memory and then ran memtest from the BIOS. I get multiple errors at the "default" XMP settings (2 is worse than 1) . Looking for a few suggestions to tweak this set of RAM so it will run as advertised and maybe even squeeze a bit of an overclock out of the set. (voltage settings, etc..) Thanks!

-M


----------



## sugi0lover

Before ocing 7200, having some fun with DDR5 OC.
Max Temp and Max Wattage are bug in y-cruncher.


----------



## db000

managerman said:


> Looking for a little advice. I just picked up a set of the new Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v memory. I am using a Maximus Extreme Glacial board (BIOS 1101) with a 12900k. Chip is SP86. I have reset the cmos and loaded the defaults in the BIos. I have set XMP1 (and 2) for the memory and then ran memtest from the BIOS. I get multiple errors at the "default" XMP settings (2 is worse than 1) . Looking for a few suggestions to tweak this set of RAM so it will run as advertised and maybe even squeeze a bit of an overclock out of the set. (voltage settings, etc..) Thanks!
> 
> -M


I would suggest you start with XMP 1, Auto on CPU and 1.25v-1.30v for IMC. Also make sure you have good enough airflow for temps on the sticks.


----------



## managerman

CptSpig said:


> stable 24/7 6400 CR1. *VDD 1.41/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.415v | MC 1.25v*


Thank for this info @CptSpig Going to try this on my Gskill 6400...since I cannot get XMP to work....What voltage do you run for SA?

-M


----------



## managerman

db000 said:


> I would suggest you start with XMP 1, Auto on CPU and 1.25v-1.30v for IMC. Also make sure you have good enough airflow for temps on the sticks.


Thanks...I will give this a try too!

-M


----------



## CptSpig

david12900k said:


> F5'd, cleared cmos, f5'd again and re-typed in all of the settings you had from your CMO. No luck


I asume you have the G.Skill 6400 RGB kit. Try Clear cmo's enter the bios F5 enter F10 enter and it will reboot enter the bios. Now just enter the primary 32-39-39-102 and VDD 1.40 VDDQ 1.4 F10 and enter. Let it reboot into Windows.


----------



## CptSpig

managerman said:


> Thank for this info @CptSpig Going to try this on my Gskill 6400...since I cannot get XMP to work....What voltage do you run for SA?
> 
> -M


Attached are my settings. I have a AI overclock of 5.5GHz on the CPU and the G.Skill 6400 kit at 6400 CL30 on the APEX so your settings will differ. I don't use XMP it will OC FSB and drives. I use all manual timings and voltages. Note XMP1 will give you primary timings and voltages everything else on AUTO. XMP2 will give you most of the timings and voltages.


----------



## managerman

CptSpig said:


> Attached are my settings. I have a AI overclock of 5.5GHz on the CPU and the G.Skill 6400 kit at 6400 CL30 on the APEX so your settings will differ. I don't use XMP it will OC FSB and drives. I use all manual timings and voltages. Note XMP1 will give you primary timings and voltages everything else on AUTO. XMP2 will give you most of the timings and voltages.


Thank you...I will give these values a try tonight and report back.

-M


----------



## centvalny

Pentium G7400 ambient imc test @ 7300c32 Hynix green sticks


----------



## Forsaken1

centvalny said:


> Pentium G7400 ambient imc test @ 7300c32 Hynix green


Nice ram clocks.Lost silicone lottery on G7400?
Have a turd G6900 also.Going to use it for target practice.


----------



## centvalny

Forsaken1 said:


> Nice ram clocks.Lost silicone lottery on G7400?
> Have a turd G6900 also.Going to use it for target practice.


Thank you. On ambient air/h20 It needs sweet spot between bclk and ram clocks. All the problems will be gone with cold on cpu


----------



## CptSpig

managerman said:


> Thank you...I will give these values a try tonight and report back.
> 
> -M


I asume you have the G.Skill 6400 RGB kit. Try this first just to get memory stable with advertised timings and voltages. Clear cmo's enter the bios F5 enter F10 enter and it will reboot enter the bios. Now just enter the primary 32-39-39-102 and VDD 1.40 VDDQ 1.4 F10 and enter. Let it reboot into Windows.


----------



## Coolon

Looking for advice on the next step
I have the same kit Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v
Asus extreme z690 motherboard BIOS 1101
In XMP 1 it didn’t even post without me manually adjusting MC to 1.2 or 1.25 (1.3 no post again)
XMP 2 lots of errors quick in the memtest86!
XM1 gives a errors in memtest86 too so
What I tested already:

VDD 1.4 VDDQ 1.4 MC 1.25 and different SA voltages 0.96/1.0/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2/1.25 (0.96, 1.0, it takes longer to produce any errors in memtest86 – errors on the third pass)
VDD 1.435 VDDQ 1.435 MC 1.25 SA AUTO Errors
Disabling XMP 1 and put all timings and voltages into manual mode
Disabling fast boot
No overheat – I have 140mm cooler on top of memory while testing!
Maximus tweaks 1 and 2 not helping
Looking for some advice on extra steps I can do to make it stable for daily work!
Since I’m not into overclocking I might miss something simple and vital!
Previously I had G Skill 36-36-36-76 6000mhz and only able to make it stable at 5600mhz(Karhu and testmem5 extreme profile)


----------



## Forsaken1

centvalny said:


> Thank you. On ambient air/h20 It needs sweet spot between bclk and ram clocks. All the problems will be gone with cold on cpu


Hope you have better luck then I.Placed G6900 on - cooling barley helped.
Maybe practice delid before shooting it


----------



## managerman

CptSpig said:


> I asume you have the G.Skill 6400 RGB kit. Try this first just to get memory stable with advertised timings and voltages. Clear cmo's enter the bios F5 enter F10 enter and it will reboot enter the bios. Now just enter the primary 32-39-39-102 and VDD 1.40 VDDQ 1.4 F10 and enter. Let it reboot into Windows.


Yes...6400 RGB kit. Will give it a shot...Thanks again.

-M


----------



## splmann

got my msi unify x today .


----------



## truehighroller1

I can't get 1t to work at 6400 all stock settings. Feels bad man. 😞 I'll try 6200 next I guess.


----------



## CptSpig

Coolon said:


> Looking for advice on the next step
> I have the same kit Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v
> Asus extreme z690 motherboard BIOS 1101
> In XMP 1 it didn’t even post without me manually adjusting MC to 1.2 or 1.25 (1.3 no post again)
> XMP 2 lots of errors quick in the memtest86!
> XM1 gives a errors in memtest86 too so
> What I tested already:
> 
> VDD 1.4 VDDQ 1.4 MC 1.25 and different SA voltages 0.96/1.0/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2/1.25 (0.96, 1.0, it takes longer to produce any errors in memtest86 – errors on the third pass)
> VDD 1.435 VDDQ 1.435 MC 1.25 SA AUTO Errors
> Disabling XMP 1 and put all timings and voltages into manual mode
> Disabling fast boot
> No overheat – I have 140mm cooler on top of memory while testing!
> Maximus tweaks 1 and 2 not helping
> Looking for some advice on extra steps I can do to make it stable for daily work!
> Since I’m not into overclocking I might miss something simple and vital!
> Previously I had G Skill 36-36-36-76 6000mhz and only able to make it stable at 5600mhz(Karhu and testmem5 extreme profile)


To much voltage is as bad as not enough voltage. With stock timings try 1.410v on VDDQ, VDDQ IVR and 1.40 on VDD. Leave MC on Auto. You should not need more voltage with stock. Make sure to clear cmo's and optimize defaults F5 and F10 to save. Then back into bios and try these voltages.


----------



## Balaned

splmann said:


> got my msi unify x today .


Very nice. Those are the exact memory timings I'm hoping to run on my Unify-X when my Corsair Hynix 6200 shows up tomorrow. (Currently running Samsung at 6600 CL 36) Would you mind sharing your BIOS voltage settings with me?


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> I can't get 1t to work at 6400 all stock settings. Feels bad man. 😞 I'll try 6200 next I guess.


Patience when OC'g memory. For CR1 you may need more voltage not more than .5 yo 1 MV at a time. VDDQ will be .5 to 1 MV higher than VDD.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another post of 7000Mhz CL30 OC with basic Hynix 4800 CL40 sticks (not my result)

7000 CL30-40-40-28-2T (air cooling w/ 120mm fan)
P54 / E42 / Ring 45
VDD 1.64(1.56) / VDDQ 1.64(1.56) / VPP 1.85 / MC 1.4 / SA 1.3
Asus Apex z690 Bios 1101


----------



## Coolon

CptSpig said:


> To much voltage is as bad as not enough voltage. With stock timings try 1.410v on VDDQ, VDDQ IVR and 1.40 on VDD. Leave MC on Auto. You should not need more voltage with stock. Make sure to clear cmo's and optimize defaults F5 and F10 to save. Then back into bios and try these voltages.


Thanks for the help. Well, I did like you said with CMOS and voltages and still no luck!
I did more tests:

VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC AUTO, SA AUTO didn’t POST(detect memory error)
VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.1, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.15, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.2, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.25, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.3, SA AUTO didn’t POST
Also have no idea so why I cant POST with anything higher than 1.3 on MC
Might need to scale SA?
VDD 1.460, VDDQ 1.470, VDDQ IVR 1.470, MC 1.275, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86

ALSO one interesting thing
If MC AUTO and 6200mhz instead of 6400mhz then I able to POST

VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC AUTO, SA AUTO

With this settings decided to take some screenshots that might help to identify what’s wrong.
VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.25, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86







Could be processor instability or wrong voltages(they all at stock I didn’t touch anything)
I also noticed a lot of PCI errors I think it caused by Asus riser – it’s gen 3.0 and I forget to switch manually to gen3 to make it work properly!


----------



## pbytano

Coolon said:


> Looking for advice on the next step
> I have the same kit Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v
> Asus extreme z690 motherboard BIOS 1101
> In XMP 1 it didn’t even post without me manually adjusting MC to 1.2 or 1.25 (1.3 no post again)
> XMP 2 lots of errors quick in the memtest86!
> XM1 gives a errors in memtest86 too so
> What I tested already:
> 
> VDD 1.4 VDDQ 1.4 MC 1.25 and different SA voltages 0.96/1.0/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2/1.25 (0.96, 1.0, it takes longer to produce any errors in memtest86 – errors on the third pass)
> VDD 1.435 VDDQ 1.435 MC 1.25 SA AUTO Errors
> Disabling XMP 1 and put all timings and voltages into manual mode
> Disabling fast boot
> No overheat – I have 140mm cooler on top of memory while testing!
> Maximus tweaks 1 and 2 not helping
> Looking for some advice on extra steps I can do to make it stable for daily work!
> Since I’m not into overclocking I might miss something simple and vital!
> Previously I had G Skill 36-36-36-76 6000mhz and only able to make it stable at 5600mhz(Karhu and testmem5 extreme profile)


I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned. I reversed course and settled on this instead for the time being. Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users.


Coolon said:


> Looking for advice on the next step
> I have the same kit Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v
> Asus extreme z690 motherboard BIOS 1101
> In XMP 1 it didn’t even post without me manually adjusting MC to 1.2 or 1.25 (1.3 no post again)
> XMP 2 lots of errors quick in the memtest86!
> XM1 gives a errors in memtest86 too so
> What I tested already:
> 
> VDD 1.4 VDDQ 1.4 MC 1.25 and different SA voltages 0.96/1.0/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2/1.25 (0.96, 1.0, it takes longer to produce any errors in memtest86 – errors on the third pass)
> VDD 1.435 VDDQ 1.435 MC 1.25 SA AUTO Errors
> Disabling XMP 1 and put all timings and voltages into manual mode
> Disabling fast boot
> No overheat – I have 140mm cooler on top of memory while testing!
> Maximus tweaks 1 and 2 not helping
> Looking for some advice on extra steps I can do to make it stable for daily work!
> Since I’m not into overclocking I might miss something simple and vital!
> Previously I had G Skill 36-36-36-76 6000mhz and only able to make it stable at 5600mhz(Karhu and testmem5 extreme profile)


I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned. 
I reversed course and settled on these stable tightened timings as much as possible at 6000 instead (atleast for the time being). 
Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users with ram OC capabilities!


----------



## pbytano

pbytano said:


> I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned. I reversed course and settled on this instead for the time being. Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users.
> 
> I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned.
> I reversed course and settled on these stable tightened timings as much as possible at 6000 instead (atleast for the time being).
> Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users with ram OC capabilities!
> 
> View attachment 2548993


VCCSA:Auto, MC: 1.35, VDD/VDDQ,VDDQTX = 1.435, XMP 1 tightened up. VT-D Disabled.


----------



## truehighroller1

I went back to microcenter and purchasaed the gskill 6400 as well. Which one should I keep? I also purchased another 12900k to no avail. Crappy sp80........... I'm going to try a China batch tomorrow. The sp87 p 97 that I have been using is from Taiwan but this Taiwan batch was trash. I feel no difference in between the tforce / gskill 6400..










Temperatures seem about the same too so they must be including pads on the pmic now is my guess.


----------



## gecko991

I need a set of 6400 as I am beating up my 5600. Will do 5930 on stock settings and 6340 at 38 on my Apex.


----------



## truehighroller1

truehighroller1 said:


> I went back to microcenter and purchasaed the gskill 6400 as well. Which one should I keep? I also purchased another 12900k to no avail. Crappy sp80........... I'm going to try a China batch tomorrow. The sp87 p 97 that I have been using is from Taiwan but this Taiwan batch was trash. I feel no difference in between the tforce / gskill 6400..
> View attachment 2548994
> 
> 
> 
> Temperatures seem about the same too so they must be including pads on the pmic now is my guess.



Interesting development. I had an error occur on the team group whereas the gskill did not. The temperature does seem to be higher on the gskills though on a side note. This is after clearing the cmos and doing a load defaults and just setting the xmp II profiles of both.

Update: Scratch that I did one more clear cmos and then loaded defaults etc. and it made it to the same point as the gskill and 2 c less temperature..
I'm leaning towards keeping the tforce myself. What do you guys think?

GSkill:










TForce:










GSkill:










TForce:


----------



## ldt

opt33 said:


> links for download in the ddr4 thread, first post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock
> 
> 
> Welcome to the Daily Memory Overclock thread for DDR4 memory on the Z690 and Z790 Chipset (LGA1700). Z690 Tools ASRock Timing Configurator (4.0.13) ASUS MemTweakIt (20210910) MSI Dragon Ball (1.0.0.08) MSI Dragon Power (1.0.0.6)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


thank you ! just downloaded and it not work with DDR5


----------



## fortecosi

splmann said:


> got my msi unify x today .
> 
> View attachment 2548956


You have a bottleneck somewhere, this result is worse than my 5600 T1 Samsung, 12900K stock with MCE disabled :O


----------



## asdkj1740

has anyone here got better ddr5 oc / stability after applied the washer mod?


----------



## CptSpig

Coolon said:


> Thanks for the help. Well, I did like you said with CMOS and voltages and still no luck!
> I did more tests:
> 
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC AUTO, SA AUTO didn’t POST(detect memory error)
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.1, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.15, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.2, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.25, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.3, SA AUTO didn’t POST
> Also have no idea so why I cant POST with anything higher than 1.3 on MC
> Might need to scale SA?
> VDD 1.460, VDDQ 1.470, VDDQ IVR 1.470, MC 1.275, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> 
> ALSO one interesting thing
> If MC AUTO and 6200mhz instead of 6400mhz then I able to POST
> 
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC AUTO, SA AUTO
> 
> With this settings decided to take some screenshots that might help to identify what’s wrong.
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.25, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> View attachment 2548992
> 
> Could be processor instability or wrong voltages(they all at stock I didn’t touch anything)
> I also noticed a lot of PCI errors I think it caused by Asus riser – it’s gen 3.0 and I forget to switch manually to gen3 to make it work properly!


what mb do you have? Mc at stock voltages should not need to be more than 1.25v. Does your bios have 
memtest86?


----------



## Coolon

CptSpig said:


> what mb do you have? Mc at stock voltages should not need to be more than 1.25v. Does your bios have
> memtest86?


It's Asus z690 Extreme with memtest86 in the bios. And that memtest86 I'm using to do all the tests from the bios


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> has anyone here got better ddr5 oc / stability after applied the washer mod?


My sp91 died using the washer mod. Was it a coincidence ? IDK. But did it improve temps ? No


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> My sp91 died using the washer mod. Was it a coincidence ? IDK. But did it improve temps ? No


damn.
dont really care about the cpu temp.
it seems my super weak cpu cant do 6400mhz or above.


----------



## Voodoo Hoodoo

pbytano said:


> I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned. I reversed course and settled on this instead for the time being. Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users.
> 
> I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned.
> I reversed course and settled on these stable tightened timings as much as possible at 6000 instead (atleast for the time being).
> Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users with ram OC capabilities!
> 
> View attachment 2548993


Hi,

This is straight XMP I with no streamlining of OS or CPU OC. 












Has been rock solid for over a week (~ 60 hours of uptime) with multiple games and Power BI.

Did notice the voltages in ATC showing weird but it's XMP I defaults.

SP88 12900K. Don't have the ram water cooled yet.


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend finished his OC to 7200 CL30.

CPU : 12900K
DRAM: Teamgroup Delta DDR5 XMP 6000 C36
M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
Voltages (7200 30-42-42-30) : SA 1.0v MC 1.375v VDD 1.66v VDDQ: 1.62v VPP: auto, VDDQ TX: auto










[Update] Adia64 Result









[Edit] optimized Ram timngs a little more


----------



## truehighroller1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend finished his OC to 7200 CL30.
> 
> CPU : 12900K
> DRAM: Teamgroup Delta DDR5 XMP 6000 C36
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
> Voltages (7200 30-42-42-30) : SA 1.0v MC 1.375v VDD 1.66v VDDQ: 1.62v VPP: auto, VDDQ TX: auto
> 
> View attachment 2549223
> 
> 
> [Update] Adia64 Result
> View attachment 2549226



I feel like there's something else going on here that we're not being told. What's his CPU SP Pcores and Ecores? What batch# also? From Taiwan or China? Did he set his sa voltage manual or offset? What are his CPU voltage settings? L2 etc?

After seeing these results I'm definitely keeping my tforce 6400.


----------



## affxct

Coolon said:


> Thanks for the help. Well, I did like you said with CMOS and voltages and still no luck!
> I did more tests:
> 
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC AUTO, SA AUTO didn’t POST(detect memory error)
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.1, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.15, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.2, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.25, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.3, SA AUTO didn’t POST
> Also have no idea so why I cant POST with anything higher than 1.3 on MC
> Might need to scale SA?
> VDD 1.460, VDDQ 1.470, VDDQ IVR 1.470, MC 1.275, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> 
> ALSO one interesting thing
> If MC AUTO and 6200mhz instead of 6400mhz then I able to POST
> 
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC AUTO, SA AUTO
> 
> With this settings decided to take some screenshots that might help to identify what’s wrong.
> VDD 1.400, VDDQ 1.410, VDDQ IVR 1.410, MC 1.25, SA AUTO Errors fast in memtest86
> View attachment 2548992
> 
> Could be processor instability or wrong voltages(they all at stock I didn’t touch anything)
> I also noticed a lot of PCI errors I think it caused by Asus riser – it’s gen 3.0 and I forget to switch manually to gen3 to make it work properly!


For 6400C32 XMP, try:
DRAM VDD/Q: 1.4V (XMP)
TXVDDQ: Auto
VDD2/IMC VDD: Auto
VCCSA: 1.25V


----------



## sugi0lover

truehighroller1 said:


> I feel like there's something else going on here that we're not being told. What's his CPU SP Pcores and Ecores? What batch# also? From Taiwan or China? Did he set his sa voltage manual or offset? What are his CPU voltage settings? L2 etc?
> 
> After seeing these results I'm definitely keeping my tforce 6400.


Sp 103 (p 115, e 79)
Vienam #31
Sa manual 1.0
P55 E43 R45 1.35v
L2 and other voltages auto


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> My friend finished his OC to 7200 CL30.
> 
> CPU : 12900K
> DRAM: Teamgroup Delta DDR5 XMP 6000 C36
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
> Voltages (7200 30-42-42-30) : SA 1.0v MC 1.375v VDD 1.66v VDDQ: 1.62v VPP: auto, VDDQ TX: auto
> 
> View attachment 2549223
> 
> 
> [Update] Adia64 Result
> View attachment 2549226


Awsome! Working on 7200 c30 myself . If my sticks are up for the task


----------



## SoldierRBT

truehighroller1 said:


> I feel like there's something else going on here that we're not being told. What's his CPU SP Pcores and Ecores? What batch# also? From Taiwan or China? Did he set his sa voltage manual or offset? What are his CPU voltage settings? L2 etc?
> 
> After seeing these results I'm definitely keeping my tforce 6400.


Highly binned cpu/ram/board

This is the way.


----------



## Carillo

truehighroller1 said:


> I feel like there's something else going on here that we're not being told. What's his CPU SP Pcores and Ecores? What batch# also? From Taiwan or China? Did he set his sa voltage manual or offset? What are his CPU voltage settings? L2 etc?
> 
> After seeing these results I'm definitely keeping my tforce 6400.


When you see results like this, it’s not a random lucky combinations of hardware bought at the local store. It’s hours after hours and thousands of dollars in binning of cpu , ram and motherboard. This is a least my case. It’s a hobby, expensive one. And btw, my T-force 6400 c40 would not even do 6800. So the bins are random.


----------



## centvalny

Carillo said:


> When you see results like this, it’s not a random lucky combinations of hardware bought at the local store. It’s hours after hours


QFT! Testing and testing and testtttt and more tesssst


----------



## truehighroller1

I just swapped my Vietnam for another. Here's hoping I get a better bin... I think the one I had was 45 now it's week 52. I'm keeping my tforce Rams.


----------



## Carillo

7400 32.42.42.30 HCI stable... 45,7ns


CPU : 12900K SP101 E-cores disabled
DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
Voltages : SA 1.00v / TX 1.600 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.68 VDDQ 1.62 VPP 1.91
Ram cooling : Water 15 degree celsius
Motherboard Apex


----------



## CptSpig

Coolon said:


> It's Asus z690 Extreme with memtest86 in the bios. And that memtest86 I'm using to do all the tests from the bios


Not sure what bios you are on but, I would flash to 1101 and start over.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Carillo said:


> 7400 32.42.42.30 HCI stable... 45,7ns


Insane! 🤩


----------



## MarkDeMark

Carillo said:


> When you see results like this, it’s not a random lucky combinations of hardware bought at the local store. It’s hours after hours and thousands of dollars in binning of cpu , ram and motherboard. This is a least my case. It’s a hobby, expensive one. And btw, my T-force 6400 c40 would not even do 6800. So the bins are random.


@Carillo Well said! As most of us have experienced, this whole Win11 - Z690 - DDR5 an Intel 1700 platform is a real $hit $how. It will be a while before you re-live the fun of overclocking DDR4 at its peak - without the experience costing you a small fortune. (My two cents). Just imagine, one of the CPU I bought was SP79 - hit a wall at around 1.4V. Couldn't even load GK64000 at XMP. Had to boost up to 1.435v at least to post. Just unstable afterwards. That's what it's about folks


----------



## truehighroller1

Sp83 p91 e61... I give up. I'll leave this one in her and test the memory and worst case go back to my sp87 p97 e66. The other will be my daughter's CPU for her ddr4 build.


----------



## Brandur

Loaded the 6200 CL32 profile on my Unify-X and the Corsair seem to run it well at 1.35V VDD/VDDQ .

Also the 6400 CL40 profile worked well, maybe i'll try to lower timings on that profile.


----------



## Coolon

CptSpig said:


> Not sure what bios you are on but, I would flash to 1101 and start over.


Actually I did that on the latest BIOS 1101 and this bios don't even POST at default XMP1 values. However if I try the same XMP1 with BIOS 0811, it post with default XMP1 settings (MC on auto is set to 1.4), biut I get quick errors in memtest86. The only for me to make it stable with all default settings now is 6200mhz and VDD VDDQ 1.4 everything else on auto. That way I've already passed memtest86 multiple times and testmem5 in windows with anta extreme profile! The same thing happened before with G skill 6000mhz CL36 kit - only stable with 5600mhz. Feels like extreme z690 is one big disappointment. But I'm not ready to spend even more money now on Apex or Unify X. Hope eventually I will figure out what to do. Any more ideas what I can try? It feels like it has something to do with drong voltages on my motherboard somewhere. I have a good Corsair HX1200 so.



affxct said:


> For 6400C32 XMP, try:
> DRAM VDD/Q: 1.4V (XMP)
> TXVDDQ: Auto
> VDD2/IMC VDD: Auto
> VCCSA: 1.25V


Didn't POST with those settings Detect memory status.


----------



## asdkj1740

Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com




latest msi bios
pro a-->a23
edge-->a22
edge ti-->a21
force-->a24
carbon-->a24
ace-->a25
godlike-->a21
unify-->a24
unify x-->a23
unify i-->a26


----------



## CptSpig

Coolon said:


> Actually I did that on the latest BIOS 1101 and this bios don't even POST at default XMP1 values. However if I try the same XMP1 with BIOS 0811, it post with default XMP1 settings (MC on auto is set to 1.4), biut I get quick errors in memtest86. The only for me to make it stable with all default settings now is 6200mhz and VDD VDDQ 1.4 everything else on auto. That way I've already passed memtest86 multiple times and testmem5 in windows with anta extreme profile! The same thing happened before with G skill 6000mhz CL36 kit - only stable with 5600mhz. Feels like extreme z690 is one big disappointment. But I'm not ready to spend even more money now on Apex or Unify X. Hope eventually I will figure out what to do. Any more ideas what I can try? It feels like it has something to do with drong voltages on my motherboard somewhere. I have a good Corsair HX1200 so.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't POST with those settings Detect memory status.


Reading through the thread it seems like people with four slot boards are having trouble. Things will get better with bios updates. I would read through the thread and find someone with a Asus Extreme board and ask them how they got memory stablility.


----------



## centvalny

From a few pentiums this one has decent imc on air
Green hynix strips 1.6Vdd/dq bios


----------



## truehighroller1

You guys are making me feel so WEAK right now but, here's mine so far with the new CPU..


----------



## sippo

Someone has any info about E7D28IMS.A23 for Unify-X ? 

Bellow downloads links:





MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com









MEG Z690 UNIFY-XA23.rar







drive.google.com


----------



## MarkDeMark

asdkj1740 said:


> damn.
> dont really care about the cpu temp.
> it seems my super weak cpu cant do 6400mhz or above.


Yep seems I had one of those too. Bought 2 boards 3 kits of ram when I should have searched for a cpu instead. Laugh at it today but yesterday I wasn't


----------



## Balaned

Replaced Samsung ADATA 6000 with Hynix Corsair 6200 and was able to see some small improvements. What I'm most happy about is how much cooler the Corsair runs, they come with beefy spreaders. I don't run 10+ hour stability tests but this is passing what I throw at it and proved reliable in every game I play.


----------



## truehighroller1

Balaned said:


> Replaced Samsung ADATA 6000 with Hynix Corsair 6200 and was able to see some small improvements. What I'm most happy about is how much cooler the Corsair runs, they come with beefy spreaders. I don't run 10+ hour stability tests but this is passing what I throw at it and proved reliable in every game I play.
> View attachment 2549340


It's because our cpus aren't sp1million rated straight from the factory bro. Our memory is fine. Our motherboards are fine. It's the cpus. They suck.


----------



## Balaned

truehighroller1 said:


> It's because our cpus aren't sp1million rated straight from the factory bro. Our memory is fine. Our motherboards are fine. It's the cpus. They suck.


Apologies, didn't mean that to come off as a complaint. I'm happy with the results and try to keep realistic expectations. The reason for the switch was merely to have some Hynix to mess around with which is what I expected from the ADATA per reviews and QVL's.


----------



## truehighroller1

Balaned said:


> Apologies, didn't mean that to come off as a complaint. I'm happy with the results and try to keep realistic expectations. The reason for the switch was merely to have some Hynix to mess around with which is what I expected from the ADATA per reviews and QVL's.



You're fine seriously. These cpus suck. From what people were saying, Intel is going to start selling the higher binned cpus as well at a higher price. Which probably is why I can go through six cpus and only get an sp87 at this point. Compared to people posting running ddr5 at 7800mhz with sp110s. It's mot realistic. The average Joe buying these isn't going to get anywhere close to those clocks, ever.


----------



## splmann

quick test with the new msi Unify x bios A.23
I used here the 7000 Profile
CPU default 

second pic CPU at 5.2 and Mem at 7000


----------



## affxct

Coolon said:


> Actually I did that on the latest BIOS 1101 and this bios don't even POST at default XMP1 values. However if I try the same XMP1 with BIOS 0811, it post with default XMP1 settings (MC on auto is set to 1.4), biut I get quick errors in memtest86. The only for me to make it stable with all default settings now is 6200mhz and VDD VDDQ 1.4 everything else on auto. That way I've already passed memtest86 multiple times and testmem5 in windows with anta extreme profile! The same thing happened before with G skill 6000mhz CL36 kit - only stable with 5600mhz. Feels like extreme z690 is one big disappointment. But I'm not ready to spend even more money now on Apex or Unify X. Hope eventually I will figure out what to do. Any more ideas what I can try? It feels like it has something to do with drong voltages on my motherboard somewhere. I have a good Corsair HX1200 so.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't POST with those settings Detect memory status.


Damn that to me is grounds for a return attempt. I also had issues training in my XMP on my first D5 kit and it transferred between 3 CPUs. Maybe try and test it on a different chip and see what happens?


----------



## affxct

I


truehighroller1 said:


> You're fine seriously. These cpus suck. From what people were saying, Intel is going to start selling the higher binned cpus as well at a higher price. Which probably is why I can go through six cpus and only get an sp87 at this point. Compared to people posting running ddr5 at 7800mhz with sp110s. It's mot realistic. The average Joe buying these isn't going to get anywhere close to those clocks, ever.


 I absolutely agree with you man. Intel’s binning has been flat out weird with ADL. They’re selling their customers different tiers of the ‘i9 experience.’


----------



## affxct

CptSpig said:


> Reading through the thread it seems like people with four slot boards are having trouble. Things will get better with bios updates. I would read through the thread and find someone with a Asus Extreme board and ask them how they got memory stablility.


I would be inclined to agree, but my 6-layer budget board is currently performing well above its pay grade. By this point I think it’s just a dice roll.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Samsung 5600MHz Dominators:


----------



## Mappi75

What is:

Refresh Cycle per Bank (tRFCpb) in the Apex Bios cant find this option..
Thanks for helping!

Edit, found it: *DRAM REF Cycle Time Same Bank*


----------



## david12900k

This has been driving me crazy seeing the great speeds other people are getting here, and I can't get even close.
RAM: Gskill 6400 c32
CPU: 12900k (SP 86)
MB: Asus z690 Apex

I can run the XMP 1 and XMP 2 profiles (6400 c32) just fine.
Next I tried to get 6600 c32, which I was able to get at 1.5 VDD/VDDQ, 1.4 VDDQTX, 1.25 MC, Auto SA
Then I tried 6800 c32, which I was unable to get stable at all with a variety of voltages. Tried pumping VDD to 1.58, tried 1.4 VDDQTX, tried 1.35 MC, tried 1.25 - .95 SA, nothing would work.

So i tried 6800 c34, and again, no amount of tweaking would get this stable
SO then I tried 6800 c36 and again no tweaking would get this stable.

Am I missing something here? Am I not adjusting a voltage or am I adjusting a voltage incorrectly?

My general protocol so far has been to get the XMP profile settings stable at a given frequency and then tune the timings from there. I see people running 7200 c30 with this kit and I have literally copied the settings and no luck. Then I adjust the settings to loosen the timings and increase the voltages and no luck. I just dont get it.

Anyone have any advice?


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> This has been driving me crazy seeing the great speeds other people are getting here, and I can't get even close.
> RAM: Gskill 6400 c32
> CPU: 12900k (SP 86)
> MB: Asus z690 Apex
> 
> I can run the XMP 1 and XMP 2 profiles (6400 c32) just fine.
> Next I tried to get 6600 c32, which I was able to get at 1.5 VDD/VDDQ, 1.4 VDDQTX, 1.25 MC, Auto SA
> Then I tried 6800 c32, which I was unable to get stable at all with a variety of voltages. Tried pumping VDD to 1.58, tried 1.4 VDDQTX, tried 1.35 MC, tried 1.25 - .95 SA, nothing would work.
> 
> So i tried 6800 c34, and again, no amount of tweaking would get this stable
> SO then I tried 6800 c36 and again no tweaking would get this stable.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Am I not adjusting a voltage or am I adjusting a voltage incorrectly?
> 
> My general protocol so far has been to get the XMP profile settings stable at a given frequency and then tune the timings from there. I see people running 7200 c30 with this kit and I have literally copied the settings and no luck. Then I adjust the settings to loosen the timings and increase the voltages and no luck. I just dont get it


Every board and CPU have a ceiling in terms of frequency I think.


----------



## david12900k

affxct said:


> Every board and CPU have a ceiling in terms of frequency I think.


Yeah, im starting to think its my CPU. Z690 Apex should be able to run pretty high frequencies. What voltages do you think I should try running to get 6800 or 7000 if i loosen the timings a lot (maybe 40-50-50-100) to test that i am ABLE to hit 6800 at all


----------



## Mappi75

Carillo said:


> 7400 32.42.42.30 HCI stable... 45,7ns
> 
> 
> CPU : 12900K SP101 E-cores disabled
> DRAM: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> Voltages : SA 1.00v / TX 1.600 / MC 1.33v / VDD 1.68 VDDQ 1.62 VPP 1.91
> Ram cooling : Water 15 degree celsius
> Motherboard Apex




Did you use Asus Tweak Mode 1 / 2 or leave it on AUTO?
Thanks.


----------



## david12900k

Sorry misread that


----------



## truehighroller1

Mappi75 said:


> Did you use Asus Tweak Mode 1 / 2 or leave it on AUTO?
> Thanks.



What does the asus tweak mode thing do?


----------



## timd78

So i have a question for you all.

I was stress testing my memory overclock while asleep last night. ( i have a looser one i use and working on a tighter one).

On getting a couple errors i reverted to my looser profile via clear CMOS.

An hour or so later my system became super unstable and wouldnt even boot the OS. (Windows is now corrupted but my linux install is fine.)

It looked like something in my system had degraded because it wouldn't clock up properly at all and none of my profiles, or even optimized defaults worked. I flashed a new beta bios Gigabyte had up the system seems to have recovered.

I have gently been turning it back up to previous settings and It now appears to overclock normally so fingers crossed nothing is actually degraded. My memory for now is running at XMP as that was enough drama for the day.

Does this sound like a situation where my BIOS somehow got corrupted or do you think i should be concerned about a CPU / mem / MB issue?


----------



## bscool

david12900k said:


> This has been driving me crazy seeing the great speeds other people are getting here, and I can't get even close.
> RAM: Gskill 6400 c32
> CPU: 12900k (SP 86)
> MB: Asus z690 Apex
> 
> I can run the XMP 1 and XMP 2 profiles (6400 c32) just fine.
> Next I tried to get 6600 c32, which I was able to get at 1.5 VDD/VDDQ, 1.4 VDDQTX, 1.25 MC, Auto SA
> Then I tried 6800 c32, which I was unable to get stable at all with a variety of voltages. Tried pumping VDD to 1.58, tried 1.4 VDDQTX, tried 1.35 MC, tried 1.25 - .95 SA, nothing would work.
> 
> So i tried 6800 c34, and again, no amount of tweaking would get this stable
> SO then I tried 6800 c36 and again no tweaking would get this stable.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Am I not adjusting a voltage or am I adjusting a voltage incorrectly?
> 
> My general protocol so far has been to get the XMP profile settings stable at a given frequency and then tune the timings from there. I see people running 7200 c30 with this kit and I have literally copied the settings and no luck. Then I adjust the settings to loosen the timings and increase the voltages and no luck. I just dont get it.
> 
> Anyone have any advice?


If all you had to do was copy settings everyone would be running 7000+. Takes binned cpu/imc and memory(MB?). No different than on z690 ddr4 some people could only run 3600 to 3800 and some could run 4133 to 4266 in gear 1.

I would bet none of these guys you see running 7000+ bought 1 cpu and mem kit and are running those clocks. Also they probably been ocing for years if not decades. When I see them posting about Abit and Soyo i know they have been doing this for a while.

Also ddr5 seems flaky as F the short time I have had it. I have setting that will run 9000% on Karhu and then later same setting will error within a few minutes. Even clearing cmos and loadinng them doest always work. Sometimes take a couple trys.


----------



## Mappi75

truehighroller1 said:


> What does the asus tweak mode thing do?


Tweak Mode 1 is better for some module compatibility, Mode 2 is better for overclocking. Either can give better results depending on the memory configuration.


----------



## dante`afk

how do you guys remove the headspreaders on the gskill c32 ram without damaging the pmic? I think the glue on the chip site is also covering the pmic, broke a smd while removing


----------



## matherror

Hello people .I have cl40 hynix 6000mhz kingston. I need daily soft overclock settings. I'm not planing beat world records  . anyone can share ? thanks.


----------



## db000

dante`afk said:


> how do you guys remove the headspreaders on the gskill c32 ram without damaging the pmic? I think the glue on the chip site is also covering the pmic, broke a smd while removing


I found the posts from @sugi0lover. I knew I read it somewhere in here.








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Using @cstkl1 RTLs method .... Mind sharing a linked post with some details about that method? ;-)




www.overclock.net












*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Bench monster.Good luck. Gold cup for XS. Thanks. I'll be doing the same, i3 and Pentium though. At least until I find out if my Kingston's are good enough to bench with.




www.overclock.net





I've not yet removed my heatsinks. But after reading your story im worried


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Yeah, im starting to think its my CPU. Z690 Apex should be able to run pretty high frequencies. What voltages do you think I should try running to get 6800 or 7000 if i loosen the timings a lot (maybe 40-50-50-100) to test that i am ABLE to hit 6800 at all


I personally wouldn’t test more than 1.55V VDD/Q on Hynix ICs, and I wouldn’t daily more than 1.5V. With Samsung I’d be willing to test up to 1.65V and daily 1.55V.


----------



## MarkDeMark

dante`afk said:


> how do you guys remove the headspreaders on the gskill c32 ram without damaging the pmic? I think the glue on the chip site is also covering the pmic, broke a smd while removing


Maybe


----------



## db000

MarkDeMark said:


> Maybe


He released a part 2 with Thinner.


----------



## nickolp1974

david12900k said:


> This has been driving me crazy seeing the great speeds other people are getting here, and I can't get even close.
> RAM: Gskill 6400 c32
> CPU: 12900k (SP 86)
> MB: Asus z690 Apex
> 
> I can run the XMP 1 and XMP 2 profiles (6400 c32) just fine.
> Next I tried to get 6600 c32, which I was able to get at 1.5 VDD/VDDQ, 1.4 VDDQTX, 1.25 MC, Auto SA
> Then I tried 6800 c32, which I was unable to get stable at all with a variety of voltages. Tried pumping VDD to 1.58, tried 1.4 VDDQTX, tried 1.35 MC, tried 1.25 - .95 SA, nothing would work.
> 
> So i tried 6800 c34, and again, no amount of tweaking would get this stable
> SO then I tried 6800 c36 and again no tweaking would get this stable.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Am I not adjusting a voltage or am I adjusting a voltage incorrectly?
> 
> My general protocol so far has been to get the XMP profile settings stable at a given frequency and then tune the timings from there. I see people running 7200 c30 with this kit and I have literally copied the settings and no luck. Then I adjust the settings to loosen the timings and increase the voltages and no luck. I just dont get it.
> 
> Anyone have any advice?


what command rate are you trying to run??? 6400 and below CR1 anything above that CR2


----------



## Alexshunter

Guys, is there a way to improve my reading speed and latency? Or is it because i use only 2x8GB RAM?


----------



## Nizzen

dante`afk said:


> how do you guys remove the headspreaders on the gskill c32 ram without damaging the pmic? I think the glue on the chip site is also covering the pmic, broke a smd while removing


@Carillo


----------



## fortecosi

bscool said:


> If all you had to do was copy settings everyone would be running 7000+. Takes binned cpu/imc and memory(MB?). No different than on z690 ddr4 some people could only run 3600 to 3800 and some could run 4133 to 4266 in gear 1.
> 
> I would bet none of these guys you see running 7000+ bought 1 cpu and mem kit and are running those clocks. Also they probably been ocing for years if not decades. When I see them posting about Abit and Soyo i know they have been doing this for a while.
> 
> Also ddr5 seems flaky as F the short time I have had it. I have setting that will run 9000% on Karhu and then later same setting will error within a few minutes. Even clearing cmos and loadinng them doest always work. Sometimes take a couple trys.


/bow before the bscool
This post should be sticky. Very well written, there is nothing to add. Everyone who starts with OC should realize this.


----------



## truehighroller1

fortecosi said:


> /bow before the bscool
> This post should be sticky. Very well written, there is nothing to add. Everyone who starts with OC should realize this.



That the system isn't stable even after it acting stable 😂

New settings I'm trying.


----------



## LionS7

Kingston Fury Beast - Samsung (5600CL40)

Windows 11 Pro
MAG Z690 TORPEDO
i9-12900K @ 5100/4100/4100
32GB DDR5-6400 36-36-36-52-2
(VDD2/VDDQ 1.38V, DRAM 1.37V, SA 1.25V)


----------



## Csavez™

Apex 12900k 5,[email protected],[email protected],3
Tforce 6400 @ 28_38_38_28


----------



## gecko991

What kind of bandwidth on Aida64.


----------



## munternet

gecko991 said:


> What kind of bandwidth on Aida64.


Last thumbnail


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> how do you guys remove the headspreaders on the gskill c32 ram without damaging the pmic? I think the glue on the chip site is also covering the pmic, broke a smd while removing


Use a knife on the side without IC´s to cut the foam with glue, make sure the knife blade is pressing against the cooler side...when the backside comes of the top G.skill plastic part will fall of, then simply press the front off with two thumbs while pressing your index finger against the PCB. Done this on a lot of DDR5 G.skill. No heat, no Ln2, just pure will  There is NO glue on the IC side, only thermal pad, so no need


----------



## snakeeyes111

6800 Samsung + Apex aircooled


----------



## therealjustin

matherror said:


> Hello people .I have cl40 hynix 6000mhz kingston. I need daily soft overclock settings. I'm not planing beat world records  . anyone can share ? thanks.


I too would appreciate any tips on this kit from those with more experience. The issue is that results can vary wildly between individual kits, motherboards, and CPU's. Nothing is for certain with DDR5 being so new.


----------



## fortecosi

LionS7 said:


> Kingston Fury Beast - Samsung (5600CL40)
> 
> Windows 11 Pro
> MAG Z690 TORPEDO
> i9-12900K @ 5100/4100/4100
> 32GB DDR5-6400 36-36-36-52-2
> (VDD2/VDDQ 1.38V, DRAM 1.37V, SA 1.25V)


Very nice! If the Torpedo can do this, the Apex struggling is embarrassing. Even more so if you compare the price, Apex is not worth for regular normal OC anymore. For 7k+ , competitive OC etc sure, but for normal average Joe (like me) it´s disaster.


----------



## Forsaken1

Alot of great results in this thread.Load them up at HWBOT.
A little non K FUN.


----------



## satinghostrider

This Alderlake Platform doesn't make sense. I've had nothing but trouble trying to make anything stable past 6000 on my old board. Swapped out my board to a new Apex and suddenly it feels like I have a binned CPU and RAM.

My CPU is only an SP84 and I could boot 7200 (not stable) but could get 6400cr1 and 6800cr2 stable with ease. This was tried on both Gskill 6400C32 and Kingston 6400C40 kits. Kingston kit definitely stronger than my Gskill that I have. Easier to get stable and less voltage. Credits to @matique for helping me test this. At least from what I see now, I don't feel it's the CPU IMC as what I earlier on suspected.


----------



## db000

Carillo said:


> Use a knife on the side without IC´s to cut the foam with glue, make sure the knife blade is pressing against the cooler side...when the backside comes of the top G.skill plastic part will fall of, then simply press the front off with two thumbs while pressing your index finger against the PCB. Done this on a lot of DDR5 G.skill. No heat, no Ln2, just pure will  There is NO glue on the IC side, only thermal pad, so no need


Your guide for this worked very well, kudos! except somehow one of the sticks isnt posting anymore. Error 55. Can't see what I made different, the other stick works fine. Bad luck? I assume its just landfill now?


----------



## truehighroller1

satinghostrider said:


> This Alderlake Platform doesn't make sense. I've had nothing but trouble trying to make anything stable past 6000 on my old board. Swapped out my board to a new Apex and suddenly it feels like I have a binned CPU and RAM.
> 
> My CPU is only an SP84 and I could boot 7200 (not stable) but could get 6400cr1 and 6800cr2 stable with ease. This was tried on both Gskill 6400C32 and Kingston 6400C40 kits. Kingston kit definitely stronger than my Gskill that I have. Easier to get stable and less voltage. Credits to @matique for helping me test this. At least from what I see now, I don't feel it's the CPU IMC as what I earlier on suspected.
> 
> View attachment 2549453



Mind sharing your voltages on etc?


----------



## fortecosi

satinghostrider said:


> This Alderlake Platform doesn't make sense. I've had nothing but trouble trying to make anything stable past 6000 on my old board. Swapped out my board to a new Apex and suddenly it feels like I have a binned CPU and RAM.
> 
> My CPU is only an SP84 and I could boot 7200 (not stable) but could get 6400cr1 and 6800cr2 stable with ease. This was tried on both Gskill 6400C32 and Kingston 6400C40 kits. Kingston kit definitely stronger than my Gskill that I have. Easier to get stable and less voltage. Credits to @matique for helping me test this. At least from what I see now, I don't feel it's the CPU IMC as what I earlier on suspected.


So the probably first batch of apex is most likely defective? It also explains why the buildzoid could not boot with ram over 6000 on his Apex... now I believe him. OK, the trouble with reversed polarity cap on the Hero, and defective batch of the Apex, man I don´t like it! This is not good for the most premium motherboard brand... Sure something may happen, but.... and the Hero has better ram oc than the Extreme, it´s hilarious! They clearly underestimated "something". Z690 is not the Asus season... And cstkl1 is very quiet since Z690 Asus launch. If you compare it how much active he was while Z590 launch... Now it´s about Shamino, he can do wonders.


----------



## satinghostrider

fortecosi said:


> So the probably first batch of apex is most likely defective? It also explains why the buildzoid could not boot with ram over 6000 on his Apex... now I believe him. OK, the trouble with reversed polarity cap on the Hero, and defective batch of the Apex, man I don´t like it! This is not good for the most premium motherboard brand... Sure something may happen, but.... and the Hero has better ram oc than the Extreme, it´s hilarious! They clearly underestimated "something". Z690 is not the Asus season... And cstkl1 is very quiet since Z690 Asus launch. If you compare it how much active he was while Z590 launch... Now it´s about Shamino, he can do wonders.


I'm not sure if I would call it defective. 6000 runs stable easy even at Cr1 on my previous Apex. Just that when I want to push it further than 6000, there is always issues with errors on TM5 and stability. But going past 6000 is where all the problem lies and that's frustrating.

Also, I have not isolated mounting pressure as a factor on my previous board with this new one as it's on a test bench. Only similar components I've used is my CPU and my ram kits. My test bench is using an LGA1700 specific kit for the aio but my previous one was an EK Magnitude using the 1151 mounting holes / mounting kit. I didn't even use washers CPU side as it didn't fit but I was also careful not to tighten the standoffs too tight as there was no washers. Removing it, there was no damage either as I've checked to ensure this with a magnifying glass over the 1151 mounting holes.

I will be mounting this new board into my system in a couple of weeks and I can confirm for sure if it's anything else. I know this is very frustrating given I didn't expect to spend this much time troubleshooting but given that everything works right now on my setup with the new board, it's very encouraging to know I can maximise both the CPU and RAM overclock to the best of what is available on the market now. Trust me, I did want to move to Unify-X for a moment but decided to just try 1 more time for another Apex board.

YMMV but for me this was it. I was actually happy it was the board as all newer CPUs have ****tier SP Rating and this makes for a worser scenario to be in even if you had a better board right now with a **** CPU / No CPU. Problem is it's hard to tell if it's even earlier boards or later boards with this problem I know people who have much earlier boards than me with no issues. So it's hard to pinpoint exactly what went wrong.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> That the system isn't stable even after it acting stable 😂
> 
> New settings I'm trying.


You are running way to much voltage for G.Skill 6400 at stock OC speed. See attached for G.Skill at 6400 kit running 6600MHz. VDD/VDDQ at 1.470v Tunning memory is trial and error one setting at a time. You can't copy timings and plug-in voltages and hope they stick. It takes a lot of patience.


----------



## truehighroller1

truehighroller1 said:


> That the system isn't stable even after it acting stable 😂
> 
> New settings I'm trying.
> 
> View attachment 2549399





CptSpig said:


> You are running way to much voltage for G.Skill 6400 at stock OC speed. See attached for G.Skill at 6400 kit running 6600MHz. VDD/VDDQ at 1.470v Tunning memory is trial and error one setting at a time. You can't copy timings and plug-in voltages and hope they stick. It takes a lot of patience.



That's just a glitch. I'm running 1.57 vdd vddq.

I took the Sammy's back. I'm on the tforce Rams again.


----------



## sugi0lover

[DDR5 OC : 7000Mz CL30 Optimization]
- optimized some ram timing, better TM5 cover speed, latency and GB3
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.5hz , Cache 5.0Ghz, E cores off)
○ Ram : G.SKILL DDR5-6400 CL32 TRIDENT Z5
○ Ram OC : 7000Mhz-30-40-40-26-300-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 9902)
○ Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : VDD&VDDQ TX 1.600v / VDDQ 1.540v / MC&SA 1.350v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony.








[DDR5 OC : 7000Mz CL30 Optimization]


New item added to shared album




photos.app.goo.gl


----------



## Mappi75

Wondering why you all get so easy *below 58ns*,
i'am running 6666 32-40-40-30-2T an only hit the 58ns...









Setup is 100% stable (TM5,Karhu,HCI MemTest Pro).
Or is there a limitation because of my *12700K* (1101 Bios)!?

Edit: sorry wrong thread ist should be in the Apex thread..

Edit2: a litte bit better after reinstall: *-3ns = 54,9ns*


----------



## db000

Mappi75 said:


> Wondering why you all get so easy *below 58ns*,
> i'am running 6666 32-40-40-30-2T an only hit the 58ns...
> 
> View attachment 2549486
> 
> 
> Setup is 100% stable (TM5,Karhu,HCI MemTest Pro).
> Or is there a limitation because of my *12700K* (1101 Bios)!?


Disable E-cores for better latency.


----------



## opt33

Mappi75 said:


> Wondering why you all get so easy *below 58ns*,
> i'am running 6666 32-40-40-30-2T an only hit the 58ns...
> 
> 
> 
> Setup is 100% stable (TM5,Karhu,HCI MemTest Pro).
> Or is there a limitation because of my *12700K* (1101 Bios)!?


If you have any part of asus armory crate installed, ie if used to install drivers, that is a 4-5 ns hit to latency. 
as db000 said disabling E cores and running cpu and especially cache higher improves latency.


----------



## snakeeyes111

7000 Samsung Aircooled. Subs and voltages not optimized


----------



## Mappi75

opt33 said:


> If you have any part of asus armory crate installed, ie if used to install drivers, that is a 4-5 ns hit to latency.
> as db000 said disabling E cores and running cpu and especially cache higher improves latency.


Thanks i have full Amory Crate installed 
Ok i will reinstall windows and looks how this works - thank you both!


----------



## jeiselramos

snakeeyes111 said:


> 7000 Samsung Aircooled. Subs and voltages not optimized
> 
> 
> View attachment 2549494


Can you send your .txt/.CMO file?


----------



## fortecosi

EVGA - Products - EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard - 121-AL-E699-KR


----------



## Carillo

fortecosi said:


> EVGA - Products - EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard - 121-AL-E699-KR





fortecosi said:


> EVGA - Products - EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard - 121-AL-E699-KR


As usual, Evga comes 6 months late to the party , not even in stock 🤣


----------



## jollib

are these the stock ddr4 heatsinks and do they fit ddr5? Or are these custom copper ones?


db000 said:


> I found the posts from @sugi0lover. I knew I read it somewhere in here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Using @cstkl1 RTLs method .... Mind sharing a linked post with some details about that method? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Bench monster.Good luck. Gold cup for XS. Thanks. I'll be doing the same, i3 and Pentium though. At least until I find out if my Kingston's are good enough to bench with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've not yet removed my heatsinks. But after reading your story im worried
> 
> View attachment 2549375


----------



## jollib

I have a unify-x z690 and just received some dell hynix with renasas PMIC. If im reading correctly only the APEX can unlock the locked renasas PMIC. if i wanted to go higher on voltage, I wont be able to do that with the Unify-x, I would need the apex board. I want to stick with the unify-x of price. (I know ill be upgrading again soon .) but it looks like i would have to get some unlocked pmic ram to work with it. I Plan on watercooling ram. My goal is gaming performance and correct me if im wrong I would want lower latency and not high frequencies. But also want to keep the cost low an make this the best bang for the buck System. Ive been reading as much as i can through the 170 pages. Most of the info here is for the apex, but with what i have been reading apex has been giving people a lot of issues. I wish there were better ddr4 motherboards out there and i know know i should be looking to ddr4 for better gaming performance. This will end up being a production system if cant match or get close to ddr4 gaming performance. Sorry for the long post. Im about to get roasted. take it easy on my. Im just coming back to intel.


----------



## truehighroller1

jollib said:


> I have a unify-x z690 and just received some dell hynix with renasas PMIC. If im reading correctly only the APEX can unlock the locked renasas PMIC. if i wanted to go higher on voltage, I wont be able to do that with the Unify-x, I would need the apex board. I want to stick with the unify-x of price. (I know ill be upgrading again soon .) but it looks like i would have to get some unlocked pmic ram to work with it. I Plan on watercooling ram. My goal is gaming performance and correct me if im wrong I would want lower latency and not high frequencies. But also want to keep the cost low an make this the best bang for the buck System. Ive been reading as much as i can through the 170 pages. Most of the info here is for the apex, but with what i have been reading apex has been giving people a lot of issues. I wish there were better ddr4 motherboards out there and i know know i should be looking to ddr4 for better gaming performance. This will end up being a production system if cant match or get close to ddr4 gaming performance. Sorry for the long post. Im about to get roasted. take it easy on my. Im just coming back to intel.


What's wrong with you MAN?! Just kidding. I'd like to know which pmics are considered unlocked vrs not. I have the Apex though. I also have the rog strix d4 wifi and it reaches 4133 ddr4 good timings with my same CPU in using in the apex now.

Anyway, I don't think anyone will pick on you.

@bscool

How were you saying to test my slots on this apex? I know one stick at a time but, just primaries and xmp voltages and then see which one gets further with the same stick maybe both, one stick at a time perhaps? I tested my ek velocity blocks mounting pressure earlier, it did nothing. I can't get to 6600 lose timings memtest stable. I can run 6400 tight timings. I went up and down the voltages one at a time and got 6400 stable 100% but can't run 1t at 6400 and can't get 6600 stable no matter what I throw at it. I might return these sticks and try another set of them but wanting to see if it's just the mb at this point which I'm honestly leaning towards.


----------



## centvalny

jollib said:


> I have a unify-x z690 and just received some dell hynix with renasas PMIC. If im reading correctly only the APEX can unlock the locked renasas PMIC.


This Dell hynix oem probly build with server based quality at least for hynix chips it used. Problem is with unlock (on Apex) but secured renasas pmic voltage will drop in windows.

I set 1.6Vdd/dq in bios and turn to1.55V in windows. With decent imc cpu on Windows 10Lite (benching os) enough to go 7300 air.


----------



## centvalny

truehighroller1 said:


> I'd like to know which pmics are considered unlocked vrs not. I have the Apex though.


Dell oem hynix pmic secure true locked for 1.435V max, comply with jedec spec.


----------



## bscool

truehighroller1 said:


> What's wrong with you MAN?! Just kidding. I'd like to know which pmics are considered unlocked vrs not. I have the Apex though. I also have the rog strix d4 wifi and it reaches 4133 ddr4 good timings with my same CPU in using in the apex now.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think anyone will pick on you.
> 
> @bscool
> 
> How were you saying to test my slots on this apex? I know one stick at a time but, just primaries and xmp voltages and then see which one gets further with the same stick maybe both, one stick at a time perhaps? I tested my ek velocity blocks mounting pressure earlier, it did nothing. I can't get to 6600 lose timings memtest stable. I can run 6400 tight timings. I went up and down the voltages one at a time and got 6400 stable 100% but can't run 1t at 6400 and can't get 6600 stable no matter what I throw at it. I might return these sticks and try another set of them but wanting to see if it's just the mb at this point which I'm honestly leaning towards.


Getting 6600/6666 stable is tough for me also.

To test slot you can either test 1 stick at a time or disable the channel via bios, at the bottom of mem settings page.

Then I tested how high I could boot each channel. then tested how high I could run aida64 with both dim and then test how high I could run y cruncher with both dim.

7200 is highest I can boot slot b and 7000 highest I can run aida64 mem bench.

7000 highest I can run y cruncher channel b, 6800 highest can run both sticks y cruncher.

6666c30 highest i have gotten to run Karhu to run 5000 to 9000%. But getting it to be stable if making changes in the bios is the challenge for me past 6400. Basically have to have a saved profile and turn off psu, clear cmos for 30 sec and the load good profile for chance of 6600/6666 passing Karhu.

My timings are a little looser but that is what I need to set to pass Karhu @6600/6666c30.

Edit I never tested just slot b at say 6800 to see if it can pass Karhu. I guess I really dont care as it cant do it with both channels working. Even 6666 takes voodoo and patience of a saint to get working stable.

Edit #2 should repeat a similar process with each dim in slot b to find if 1 of the mem dims is weaker than other. Then you would put weaker dim in slot b for actual use. My dims are so close I couldnt see a difference bewteen them.


----------



## truehighroller1

bscool said:


> Getting 6600/6666 stable is tough for me also.
> 
> To test slot you can either test 1 stick at a time or disable the channel via bios, at the bottom of mem settings page.
> 
> Then I tested how high I could boot each channel. then tested how high I could run aida64 with both dim and then test how high I could run y cruncher with both dim.
> 
> 7200 is highest I can boot slot b and 7000 highest I can run aida64 mem bench.
> 
> 7000 highest I can run y cruncher channel b, 6800 highest can run both sticks y cruncher.
> 
> 6666c30 highest i have gotten to run Karhu to run 5000 to 9000%. But getting it to be stable if making changes in the bios is the challenge for me past 6400. Basically have to have a saved profile and turn off psu, clear cmos for 30 sec and the load good profile for chance of 6600/6666 passing Karhu.
> 
> My timings are a little looser but that is what I need to set to pass Karhu @6600/6666c30.
> 
> Edit I never tested just slot b at say 6800 to see if it can pass Karhu. I guess I really dont care as it cant do it with both channels working. Even 6666 takes voodoo and patience of a saint to get working stable.



I was telling my wife that I've noticed the same behavior as well. It's not just you, or me 😂. Makes me feel betterish. Thank you!


----------



## jollib

True locked. Meaning even with the APEX you cannot overvolt?



centvalny said:


> Dell oem hynix pmic secure true locked for 1.435V max, comply with jedec spec.
> View attachment 2549554


----------



## jollib

So you are saying if i want to stay with the unify-x i have to spend more money and get an unlocked pmic ram kit. or go with the dell hynix and spend money on the Apex. I would do that latter. Im just weary about all these issues people are having.



centvalny said:


> This Dell hynix oem probly build with server based quality at least for hynix chips it used. Problem is with unlock (on Apex) but secured renasas pmic voltage will drop in windows.
> 
> I set 1.6Vdd/dq in bios and turn to1.55V in windows. With decent imc cpu on Windows 10Lite (benching os) enough to go 7300 air.
> View attachment 2549545
> 
> View attachment 2549546


----------



## centvalny

jollib said:


> So you are saying if i want to stay with the unify-x i have to spend more money and get an unlocked pmic ram kit. or go with the dell hynix and spend money on the Apex. I would do that latter. Im just weary about all these issues people are having.


I only run it with Apex which can partially open the pmic, not 1:1 between bios voltages:windows but enough to go 7400s c32 tight ram settings on air and more with frozen cold


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> As usual, Evga comes 6 months late to the party , not even in stock 🤣


last but not least,


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

after trying any kind of setting i note that there is no way i can get 100% established beyond 6400mhz with my apex, i can start and run at 6600 and 6800 but it is not 100% stable, ever.

I am 100% stable at 6400 c30 37 37 30 cr1 with very short times but it ends, as soon as I go up to 6600 the stability is absent, whatever I do ,everything seems ok but the memtest will give an error sooner or later,any timing and voltages I'm going to set on cr2

I can boot on single slot, 7000 slot A and 7200 slot B,
I can run on single slot A ycruncher up to 6800 and up to 7000 on slot B

Gskill 6400 c32.
12900k sp92

It may be that I don't have a good imc or good ram kit but it seems strange to me, on strix a gaming z690 ddr4 with my imc I could get 4133 c15 gear 1 easy so I think my imc is not that bad bad.

It seems that even with the apex you have to go in search of the best bin, a bit like with ram and cpu.

I see guys here posting very good times at 7400mhz with their apex, I am sure they have a lot of experience and that they have selected between different cpus and ram to get that result, but i am willing to bet that if they used their selected ram and cpu on my apex , at 6600 the party would be over.

just my experience


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

IIISLIDEIII said:


> after trying any kind of setting i note that there is no way i can get 100% established beyond 6400mhz with my apex.
> I am 100% stable at 6400 c30 37 37 30 cr1 with very short times but it ends, as soon as I go up to 6600 the stability is absent, whatever I do ,everything seems ok but the memtest will give an error sooner or later,any timing and voltages I'm going to set on cr2
> 
> I can boot on single slot, 7000 slot A and 7200 slot B,
> Gskill 6400 c32.
> 12900k sp92
> 
> It may be that I don't have a good imc or good ram kit but it seems strange to me, on strix a gaming z690 ddr4 with my imc I could get 4133 c15 gear 1 easy so I think my imc is not that bad bad.
> 
> It seems that even with the apex you have to go in search of the best bin, a bit like with ram and cpu.
> 
> I see guys here posting very good times at 7400mhz with their apex, I am sure they have a lot of experience and that they have selected between different cpus and ram to get that result, but i am willing to bet that if they used their selected ram and cpu on my apex , at 6600 the party would be over.
> 
> just my experience


Same with my system. Tried different ram but no go. Now Im waiting for a new cpu.


----------



## db000

IIISLIDEIII said:


> after trying any kind of setting i note that there is no way i can get 100% established beyond 6400mhz with my apex.
> I am 100% stable at 6400 c30 37 37 30 cr1 with very short times but it ends, as soon as I go up to 6600 the stability is absent, whatever I do ,everything seems ok but the memtest will give an error sooner or later,any timing and voltages I'm going to set on cr2
> 
> I can boot on single slot, 7000 slot A and 7200 slot B,
> Gskill 6400 c32.
> 12900k sp92
> 
> It may be that I don't have a good imc or good ram kit but it seems strange to me, on strix a gaming z690 ddr4 with my imc I could get 4133 c15 gear 1 easy so I think my imc is not that bad bad.
> 
> It seems that even with the apex you have to go in search of the best bin, a bit like with ram and cpu.
> 
> I see guys here posting very good times at 7400mhz with their apex, I am sure they have a lot of experience and that they have selected between different cpus and ram to get that result, but i am willing to bet that if they used their selected ram and cpu on my apex , at 6600 the party would be over.
> 
> just my experience


+1. I'm in the search too of 6600, have you tried IMC lower at 1.2 (1.172 - 1.208 in Karhu). Have helped me some. Mine is SP88.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

db000 said:


> +1. I'm in the search too of 6600, have you tried IMC lower at 1.2 (1.172 - 1.208 in Karhu). Have helped me some. Mine is SP88.


I have tried everything, I have been hours and hours for several days trying any kind of setting, there is no way.
I can boot 6600 c30 and 6800c32 and run on windows and play, I might as well not care until I have a crash or windows get corrupted but the system is not stable, if I start karhu I can get errors after 1 minute and then the next time after having errors only after 1 hour, but in any case, sooner or later, the error arrives.
I am about to buy a unify, although I would like to stay on asus, only because I want to investigate and find out if it is the apex that is limiting me or my imc


----------



## db000

IIISLIDEIII said:


> I have tried everything, I have been hours and hours for several days trying any kind of setting, there is no way.
> I can boot 6600 c30 and 6800c32 and run on windows and play, I might as well not care until I have a crash or windows get corrupted but the system is not stable, if I start karhu I can get errors after 1 minute and then the next time after having errors only after 1 hour, but in any case, sooner or later, the error arrives.
> I am about to buy a unify, although I would like to stay on asus, only because I want to investigate and find out if it is the apex that is limiting me or my imc


Mind sharing a ATC for you stable 6400 c30 1T?


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

db000 said:


> Mind sharing a ATC for you stable 6400 c30 1T?


is what I put in the photos above, I'll put it here:


----------



## db000

IIISLIDEIII said:


> is what I put in the photos above, I'll put it here:


My B! Im stupid 😂 I blame monday


----------



## Dinnzy

sorry if this was already answered l, what is the best move for debugging gskill 6400 if you are getting errors in occt on both xmp? I raised the voltage to 1.435 and lowered SA. Have not been able to make much headroom. Also I’m on an Apex ;d


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Dinnzy said:


> sorry if this was already answered l, what is the best move for debugging gskill 6400 if you are getting errors in occt on both xmp? I raised the voltage to 1.435 and lowered SA. Have not been able to make much headroom. Also I’m on an Apex ;d


Don't XMP, use the Hynix 6200MHz profile in bios memory presets and start from there. Enter manually your primary timings too to start off.


----------



## Sayenah

Dinnzy said:


> sorry if this was already answered l, what is the best move for debugging gskill 6400 if you are getting errors in occt on both xmp? I raised the voltage to 1.435 and lowered SA. Have not been able to make much headroom. Also I’m on an Apex ;d


Your problem is the Apex. By the way, my Apex is running the 6400c32 just fine on XMP 1. I have the Asus AI OC on as well ReBAR on. Passes OCCT, memtest86 etc. processor is SP85 so not the best.

I say RMA your board. It should be able to handle XMP profiles as advertised.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

tonight for the first time since I have this configuration I tried and remove the fan on the rams, I'm not cooling them. But is it normal with these voltages that at idle they have such high temps? 
on warzone I'm at 50 degrees .... mah

gkill 6400 c32 hynix


----------



## satinghostrider

IIISLIDEIII said:


> tonight for the first time since I have this configuration I tried and remove the fan on the rams, I'm not cooling them. But is it normal with these voltages that at idle they have such high temps?
> on warzone I'm at 50 degrees .... mah
> 
> gkill 6400 c32 hynix


If you want consistent reliability per se for DDR5, anything above 1.35V is better to run an active cooling. Especially so on boards like Apex where the memory sits back to back with each other without any gap. A fan greatly channels air to the area where heat is built up and stuck while also cooling the DIMM modules.


----------



## CptSpig

Here is 6800 CL30 CR2 on the Apex. See HWinfo64 for voltages and temperatrues on air. P-Cores SP92 and E-Cores SP69. Adia64 with iCUE and Armoury Crate running. Past memtest86 in bios.


----------



## EHT

First post, been reading this thread as i've had issues with 6000U3636E16G (Samsung). I think ram is decent, just needed to figure out what settings work.

I managed to get it stable in games by increasing system agent voltage to 1.25v, MC to 1.35v Z690-i (Bios 1003). Currently running 6400mhz CL36 @ 1.435v. I think there is a lot more potential but I'm struggling with heat issue and trying to keep them below 60c. While gaming my temps sit 50-55c.

Im running ITX case ( NR200P Max) with 3080 Ti Suprim X, so PC gets warm! The other issue ive noticed is that with z690-i Strix motherboard ribbon cable from m.2 sits against DIMM module!

Has anyone tried to remove plastic cover from their ram where RGB sit, i got the non rgb ram. Just to increase airflow.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

satinghostrider said:


> If you want consistent reliability per se for DDR5, anything above 1.35V is better to run an active cooling. Especially so on boards like Apex where the memory sits back to back with each other without any gap. A fan greatly channels air to the area where heat is built up and stuck while also cooling the DIMM modules.


under karhu with the fan it reaches 48 degrees of t max, should I consider myself at the limit of stability with oc?

more or less than how many degrees I could reduce the temp if I put the rams under liquid (compared to the fan)?


CptSpig said:


> Here is 6800 CL30 CR2 on the Apex. See HWinfo64 for voltages and temperatrues on air. P-Cores SP92 and E-Cores SP69. Adia64 with iCUE and Armoury Crate runing. Past memtest86 in bios.
> 
> View attachment 2549635


do you have a fan on the rams?
txvvdq, sa, mc?


----------



## satinghostrider

IIISLIDEIII said:


> under karhu with the fan it reaches 48 degrees of t max, should I consider myself at the limit of stability with oc?
> 
> more or less than how many degrees I could reduce the temp if I put the rams under liquid (compared to the fan)?
> 
> do you have a fan on the rams?


Every stick is different. Some sticks can start erroring out as early as 55 degrees some later.
To mitigate this, you have to check your own sticks how they react to temps but then again ambient temps come into play as well which fluctuates.
So running a RAM fan reduces this other variables you can't control especially running these DDR5 > 1.35V.
Case ventilation is another factor as well.

Yes, I do have a fan on my RAMs and I am running them at 1.5V 6800C32.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

satinghostrider said:


> Every stick is different. Some sticks can start erroring out as early as 55 degrees some later.
> To mitigate this, you have to check but then again ambient temps come into play as well which fluctuates.
> So running a RAM fan reduces this other variables you can't control especially running these DDR5 > 1.35V.
> Case ventilation is another factor as well.
> 
> Yes, I do have a fan on my RAMs and I am running them at 1.5V 6800C32.


thank you.
Under karhu what temps do you reach?


----------



## satinghostrider

IIISLIDEIII said:


> thank you.
> Under karhu what temps do you reach?


Around 52-53 with fans. TestMem5 and Karhu peak temps. 
Kingston Fury Beast 6000C40 sticks.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

satinghostrider said:


> Around 52-53 with fans. TestMem5 and Karhu peak temps.
> Kingston Fury Beast 6000C40 sticks.


nice build, what case do you have?
didn't you think about putting the rams in liquid?

i have this:


I asked about temp because I am about to redo the whole build of my pc and I would have preferred to leave the ram exposed.


----------



## satinghostrider

IIISLIDEIII said:


> nice build, what case do you have?
> didn't you think about putting the rams in liquid?
> 
> i have this:
> 
> 
> I asked about temp because I am about to redo the whole build of my pc and I would have preferred to leave the ram exposed.


Since my setup is on a testbench right now, I might WC the rams. Only issue is damaging the RAMS removing the heatspreader. This set of sticks seems to be a good bin so far of the lot I have so I am still contemplating. I also would love to leave the RAM exposed but the back-back DIMM modules makes heat build up very fast and you definitely need a fan there to prevent the sticks from erroring out depending on your own individual tolerance.

I am using a Singularity Spectre 3.0 case which is pretty much an open case. Those coolers you have on your RAM looks like the Corsair RGB cooler. I tried a few RAM coolers I found that the Vengeance Airflow fits very much better if you have tight space around that area as the legs on that cooler is slimmer and more flexible. It has only 1 fan though but it is directed smack in the middle of both modules where the PMICs are and so far I have been quite happy with the performance of the kit.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

satinghostrider said:


> Since my setup is on a testbench right now, I might WC the rams. Only issue is damaging the RAMS removing the heatspreader. This set of sticks seems to be a good bin so far of the lot I have so I am still contemplating. I also would love to leave the RAM exposed but the back-back DIMM modules makes heat build up very fast and you definitely need a fan there to prevent the sticks from erroring out depending on your own individual tolerance.
> 
> I am using a Singularity Spectre 3.0 case which is pretty much an open case. Those coolers you have on your RAM looks like the Corsair RGB cooler. I tried a few RAM coolers I found that the Vengeance Airflow fits very much better if you have tight space around that area as the legs on that cooler is slimmer and more flexible. It has only 1 fan though but it is directed smack in the middle of both modules where the PMICs are and so far I have been quite happy with the performance of the kit.


beautiful that case, I'm also going to do an open configuration, with yuel beast atlas II.
visible rams are much better aesthetically ... unfortunately.

I've never liquidated rams before, I didn't know you could break something doing it.


----------



## satinghostrider

IIISLIDEIII said:


> beautiful that case, I'm also going to do an open configuration, with yuel beast atlas II.
> visible rams are much better aesthetically ... unfortunately.
> 
> I've never liquidated rams before, I didn't know you could break something doing it.


Someone damaged their SMD removing the heatsink of the 6400C32 G.skill RAMs.
I mean the Kingston one looks quite easy to remove I think I can remove it I already have the EK Monarch block and DIMM modules to install it into.
Let's see I will try to see how difficult it is to remove them.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

satinghostrider said:


> Someone damaged their SMD removing the heatsink of the 6400C32 G.skill RAMs.
> I mean the Kingston one looks quite easy to remove I think I can remove it I already have the EK Monarch block and DIMM modules to install it into.
> Let's see I will try to see how difficult it is to remove them.


I would hate to throw the gskill in the trash with what I paid for them, I think they will stay with the fan .....


----------



## Balaned

I thought my Hynix Corsair @ 6600 OC and 1.480v was doing pretty well in the lowish 40's during gaming but I guess that's not so great. They have a Vengeance fan pointing down on them.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

Balaned said:


> I thought my Hynix Corsair @ 6600 OC and 1.480v was doing pretty well in the lowish 40's during gaming but I guess that's not so great. They have a Vengeance fan pointing down on them.
> View attachment 2549638


40 degrees I think it's a good temperature, I think you can rest assured


----------



## Balaned

IIISLIDEIII said:


> 40 degrees I think it's a good temperature, I think you can rest assured


Thanks, I was having a difficult time determining what temperatures are safe and what's dangerous. Mine stay 45 and under regardless of what I do to them. Without that fan they'll easily surpass 50. (Unify-X so the sticks are tight together.)


----------



## CptSpig

IIISLIDEIII said:


> do you have a fan on the rams?
> txvvdq, sa, mc?


VDDQ TX 1.50v, MC 1.3475v, SA VID 1.351v and VCCSA 1.344v.


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

CptSpig said:


> VDDQ TX 1.50v, MC 1.3475v, SA VID 1.351v and VCCSA 1.344v.
> 
> View attachment 2549642


Thanks man, nice job


----------



## Igbf

Hello,

I just replaced my "old" micron-based trashy kit for a fancy Samsung one. Finally seeing speeds above 5400MT/s, nice!

However, I am seeing something odd. The scaling from both DRAM frequency and latencies in AIDA memory read is quite negligible for me... however, the scaling from BCLK overclock is just insane... Is this real memory subsistem gains or just the software going nuts?

Check this for example (hwbot link: Igb`s AIDA64 - Memory Read score: 164508 points with a DDR5 SDRAM ) :









Is specially the sub-40ns memory latency what makes me suspect this is wrong... on 100mhz bclk bandwith goes to hell (barely passing 100 MiB/s) and so does latency.

Regards.


----------



## db000

Removed the heatsinks and added Copper ones from Bartxstore (Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore). I followed Carillos post below, its was to great help, but be careful. First stick worked beautiful, second one didn't post (Error 55). Did them the exact same way, still dont know what I did wrong, but I did something for sure.... Had to acquire a new kit  Luckily I live just a few minutes from a large store with plenty in stock. *Be careful! ESD etc. etc. *Temps ramp up slower with this, but dont do this if you are not going for a waterblock.



_G.Skill 6400 CL32 - F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK_
Im sharing some images here:


http://imgur.com/a/vtJFYum


I hope this is to any help!


----------



## bigfootnz

Igbf said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just replaced my "old" micron-based trashy kit for a fancy Samsung one. Finally seeing speeds above 5400MT/s, nice!
> 
> However, I am seeing something odd. The scaling from both DRAM frequency and latencies in AIDA memory read is quite negligible for me... however, the scaling from BCLK overclock is just insane... Is this real memory subsistem gains or just the software going nuts?
> 
> Check this for example (hwbot link: Igb`s AIDA64 - Memory Read score: 164508 points with a DDR5 SDRAM ) :
> View attachment 2549647
> 
> 
> Is specially the sub-40ns memory latency what makes me suspect this is wrong... on 100mhz bclk bandwith goes to hell (barely passing 100 MiB/s) and so does latency.
> 
> Regards.


That is AIDA bug


----------



## Igbf

bigfootnz said:


> That is AIDA bug


Yeah, I kinda suspected that, the holy grial would not be so easy to find! 

Thank you


----------



## IIISLIDEIII

db000 said:


> Removed the heatsinks and added Copper ones from Bartxstore (Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore). I followed Carillos post below, its was to great help, but be careful. First stick worked beautiful, second one didn't post (Error 55). Did them the exact same way, still dont know what I did wrong, but I did something for sure.... Had to acquire a new kit  Luckily I live just a few minutes from a large store with plenty in stock. *Be careful! ESD etc. etc. *Temps ramp up slower with this, but dont do this if you are not going for a waterblock.
> 
> 
> 
> _G.Skill 6400 CL32 - F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK_
> Im sharing some images here:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/vtJFYum
> 
> 
> I hope this is to any help!


are you sure you have done the same thing on both sticks? how is it possible that one no longer goes ???


----------



## db000

-


----------



## owikh84

It's been a while since my last MSI board 
Day 1 OC has been smooth...

12900K SP88 - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25

*2x16GB DDR5-6800 32-40-40-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.50v | SA 1.25v | MC 1.35v*

tREFI 65535:









tREFI 130560:


----------



## satinghostrider

owikh84 said:


> It's been a while since my last MSI board
> Day 1 OC has been smooth...
> 
> 12900K SP88 - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-6800 32-40-40-28-2T
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.50v | SA 1.25v | MC 1.35v*
> 
> tREFI 65535:
> View attachment 2549674
> 
> 
> tREFI 130560:
> View attachment 2549675


Those Kingston sticks are speedy. Pretty much running the same on my new Apex with no issues as well. Reboot stability 6800C32 all perfect. Tried this multiple times for the last few days including random tm5 and everything checks out. Sp84 CPU. 🙂


----------



## owikh84

satinghostrider said:


> Those Kingston sticks are speedy. Pretty much running the same on my *new Apex *with no issues as well. Reboot stability 6800C32 all perfect. Tried this multiple times for the last few days including random tm5 and everything checks out. Sp84 CPU. 🙂


Yeah, this Kingston is strong and inexpensive, IMO worth for its price. UNIFY ITX board is solid as well.
On a side note, I'm happy to see no more bug on the SPD hub temp reading with this tiny MSI board. (63.8c bug reported on my Hero and Extreme).


----------



## mgkhn

is that good for daily usage no extra airflow on kits. runs on 0811 with bios c32 samsung profile
12900kf sp98
gskill z5 rgb 5600c36 1.2v
maximus z690 extreme


----------



## matique

owikh84 said:


> Yeah, this Kingston is strong and inexpensive, IMO worth for its price. UNIFY ITX board is solid as well.
> On a side note, I'm happy to see no more bug on the SPD hub temp reading with this tiny MSI board. (63.8c bug reported on my Hero and Extreme).












Hehe msi unify itx is pretty amazing. When I ran those sticks on my board it was pretty similar to yours


----------



## Carillo

Too much 🍺 
Testing 7500 c32


----------



## nickolp1974

Carillo said:


> Too much 🍺
> Testing 7500 c32
> View attachment 2549706


nice, beer driving up the voltage??


----------



## db000

nickolp1974 said:


> nice, beer driving up the voltage??


Beer have that effect xD 1.68v


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend's OC result with the basic ESSENCORE KLEVV DDR5-4800 CL40 sticks

Both his Teamgroup 6000 CL36 kit and the basic KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40 sticks can do 7200 CL30 without any problem.
CPU : 12900K (SP103)
DRAM OC : 7200 30-42-42-30
M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
Voltages (Bios Input) : SA 1.0v, MC 1.375v , VDD 1.75 , VDDQ 1.68v, VPP 1.9, VDDQ TX auto
I am gonna borrow the ram sticks and test if his setup can be stable with my current SP95.


----------



## truehighroller1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's OC result with the basic ESSENCORE KLEVV DDR5-4800 CL40 sticks
> 
> Both his Teamgroup 6400 CL36 kit and the basic KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40 sticks can do 7200 CL30 without any problem.
> CPU : 12900K (SP103)
> DRAM OC : 7200 30-42-42-30
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
> Voltages (Bios Input) : SA 1.0v, MC 1.375v , VDD 1.75 , VDDQ 1.68v, VPP 1.9, VDDQ TX auto
> I am gonna borrow the ram sticks and test if his setup can be stable with my current SP95.
> View attachment 2549732



When you're done borrowing his million-dollar setup let me borrow it too please thank you.


----------



## mickyc357

Thinking of switching to ddr5 with my 12900k as I can get it cheap at the moment. 
Do the aorus boards (the aorus pro in particular) have the same issues as the ddr4 counterparts when it comes to memory overclocking? 

If not are they on par with the other manufacturers for memory oc?


----------



## Mappi75

lol even on a aorus z590 extreme you not able to read all needed voltages for ram oc in bios,
Some voltage where not able to change after saving - the support told me no need to oc ram with this mobo... 
A 1000€ mobo you should not oc...

To be fair it was a 10900k cpu but each 100€ mobo and the apex z590 and msi z590 godlike and unify-x
are able to read and save voltages.

Never ever GB...sorry.
Even on the GB TRX40 Aorus Xtreme i have problems with a corsair power supply,
but the answers from GB are...ah forget it.

Only my opinion.


----------



## Vlados

i am very surprised but my memory (hmcg88mebua081n) can run on 1.29v vdd and 1.1v vddq 6000 cl30. but everything above 6000 raises errors to karhu after about 5 minutes, even at 1.41v. although tm5 passes and the computer can be used


----------



## Jeges

timd78 said:


> So i have a question for you all.
> 
> I was stress testing my memory overclock while asleep last night. ( i have a looser one i use and working on a tighter one).
> 
> On getting a couple errors i reverted to my looser profile via clear CMOS.
> 
> An hour or so later my system became super unstable and wouldnt even boot the OS. (Windows is now corrupted but my linux install is fine.)
> 
> It looked like something in my system had degraded because it wouldn't clock up properly at all and none of my profiles, or even optimized defaults worked. I flashed a new beta bios Gigabyte had up the system seems to have recovered.
> 
> I have gently been turning it back up to previous settings and It now appears to overclock normally so fingers crossed nothing is actually degraded. My memory for now is running at XMP as that was enough drama for the day.
> 
> Does this sound like a situation where my BIOS somehow got corrupted or do you think i should be concerned about a CPU / mem / MB issue?


A slight degradation of the MC is common in the beginning it won't go any further. Just add a bit more voltage to -Ring PLL and -MC and you are good to go 😉


----------



## SuperMumrik

One last hurrah for my Dell greens on water!

I'm trying to establish baseline for my new g.skill kit freshly binned on @Carillo 's god tier cpu!
Thanks a lot man














Spoiler: ...



Apex make dreams come true


----------



## Simkin

timd78 said:


> (Windows is now corrupted but my linux install is fine.)


Windows got corrupted by simply not booting, or you got bsod's?

Had alot of bsod with my g.skill 6000 kit, not booting etc, but did not end up with corrupted Windows.

I think also its a good idea not to run the checkdisk/windows auto repair at startup after a system crash/bsod with unstable memory oc.


----------



## Carillo

Jeges said:


> A slight degradation of the MC is common in the beginning it won't go any further. Just add a bit more voltage to -Ring PLL and -MC and you are good to go 😉


Do you have data to support this statement? Pretty bald to say MC degradation is normal! I have not seen any degradation on any of my CPU’s , actually quite the opposite due to bios improvements. So please share your data


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> Too much 🍺
> Testing 7500 c32


Did you manually align RLT's or did they align through training?


----------



## nickolp1974

can anyone tell me if these are Hynix????

*Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-49600C36 6200MHz
CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 

or 



https://www.overclockers.co.uk/teamgroup-delta-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-51200c40-6400mhz-dual-channel-kit-white-my-0aw-tg.html


*


----------



## db000

nickolp1974 said:


> can anyone tell me if these are Hynix????
> 
> *Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-49600C36 6200MHz
> CMT32GX5M2X6200C36
> 
> or
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.overclockers.co.uk/teamgroup-delta-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-51200c40-6400mhz-dual-channel-kit-white-my-0aw-tg.html
> 
> 
> *


They are Hynix, but judging from posts here not as top tier as the G.Skill 6400 CL32 kits. You can see some results if you look through a few pages back etc.


----------



## Balaned

nickolp1974 said:


> can anyone tell me if these are Hynix????
> Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-49600C36 6200MHz
> CMT32GX5M2X6200C36
> or
> 
> 
> https://www.overclockers.co.uk/teamgroup-delta-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-51200c40-6400mhz-dual-channel-kit-white-my-0aw-tg.html


Yes, Hynix. I run these on Unify-X. Best I could get out of them is 6600 CL30 @ 1.480v but IDK if it's the memory or my 12900K's IMC as MSI doesn't offer anything similar to the Asus SP rating. On the bright side, the heatsinks feel beefy and the LED is nice if that matters to you. Despite not being able to hit stably 6800 or greater this memory has been rock solid reliable. I'm not disappointed with them however, I hit numbers that I'm satisfied with.


----------



## 7empe

Anyone 6800 8C+8c stable at y-cruncher? If so, at what MC voltage? Thanks.


----------



## Lord Alzov

7empe said:


> Anyone 6800 8C+8c stable at y-cruncher? If so, at what MC voltage? Thanks.


I was stable 6933CL30 at 1.35MC. But ALL CPU They differ, this information will not give you anything.


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> Anyone 6800 8C+8c stable at y-cruncher? If so, at what MC voltage? Thanks.


I need 1.28125v for 6800c32 for stability.


----------



## sugi0lover

7empe said:


> Anyone 6800 8C+8c stable at y-cruncher? If so, at what MC voltage? Thanks.


7125Mhz CL30 at MC1.35v


sugi0lover said:


> View attachment 2548985


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> 7125Mhz CL30 at MC1.35v


What is this error man? How to fix it?


----------



## centvalny

Samsung


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What is this error man? How to fix it?
> View attachment 2549859


Your OC (CPU, Ram) is not stable.


----------



## Bigsyke

Hello, I have been browsing this forum for a while now and I am completely new to overclocking (RAM). I don't want to be one of those annoying newbies, but I have to start somewhere I guess. I have 2 kits of 32GB Dominator Platinum 5200 c40. I am now aware that if you purchase two separate kits and try to run them with XMP that it can be a bit of a pain to get it to work. I am running an i9 12900k on a Z690 Hero mobo. Apologies in advance if I am posting in the wrong thread.

I have been doing some research over the last week and I just don't know where to start. Can anyone point in the right direction so I can learn what steps I should take to get this kit running stable at around 5000mhz? I have tried messing with it a bit in the BIOS and everything I have tried thus far has been unstable. Thank you all very much in advance for any and all help, I've heard incredible things about these forums over the years.

Thank you!


----------



## 7empe

Thanks everyone who gave me their input on y-cruncher stability.

I was wondering why I had to use so high MC voltage starting from 6600 CL30. I have the following profiles y-cruncher stable:

6400-28-37-37-32-1T - VDD 1.53 / VDDQ 1.50 / VDDQTx 1.53 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.28
6600-30-39-39-32-2T - VDD 1.50 / VDDQ 1.50 / VDDQTx 1.50 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.33
6666-30-39-39-32-2T - VDD 1.51 / VDDQ 1.51 / VDDQTx 1.51 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.41 !!!

This scaling was ridiculous. Any memtest (Kharhu, TM5, MemTestPro) stable though.

Now, for 6666 I moved up the VDD to 1.55 and VDDQ to 1.52 and could reduce MC to 1.34 and potentially lower. It is y-cruncher stable still.

It seems that y-cruncher is the best memtest nowadays


----------



## sugi0lover

7empe said:


> Thanks everyone who gave me their input on y-cruncher stability.
> 
> I was wondering why I had to use so high MC voltage starting from 6600 CL30. I have the following profiles y-cruncher stable:
> 
> 6400-28-37-37-32-1T - VDD 1.53 / VDDQ 1.50 / VDDQTx 1.53 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.28
> 6600-30-39-39-32-2T - VDD 1.50 / VDDQ 1.50 / VDDQTx 1.50 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.33
> 6666-30-39-39-32-2T - VDD 1.51 / VDDQ 1.51 / VDDQTx 1.51 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.41 !!!
> 
> This scaling was ridiculous. Any memtest (Kharhu, TM5, MemTestPro) stable though.
> 
> Now, for 6666 I moved up the VDD to 1.55 and VDDQ to 1.52 and could reduce MC to 1.34 and potentially lower. It is y-cruncher stable still.
> 
> It seems that y-cruncher is the best memtest nowadays


Because of the the very quick result, I like using Y cruncher before tm5 or hci. If it fails at Y cruncher, I don't even try to run those ram stability apps.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Same way i do.


----------



## 7empe

sugi0lover said:


> Because of the the very quick result, I like using Y cruncher before tm5 or hci. If it fails at Y cruncher, I don't even try to run those ram stability apps.


What about MC voltage scaling with E-cores enabled? Everyone post here high frequencies but with P-cores only. I wonder what's the ceiling for the 8C+8c y-cruncher stability.


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> Thanks everyone who gave me their input on y-cruncher stability.
> 
> I was wondering why I had to use so high MC voltage starting from 6600 CL30. I have the following profiles y-cruncher stable:
> 
> 6400-28-37-37-32-1T - VDD 1.53 / VDDQ 1.50 / VDDQTx 1.53 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.28
> 6600-30-39-39-32-2T - VDD 1.50 / VDDQ 1.50 / VDDQTx 1.50 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.33
> 6666-30-39-39-32-2T - VDD 1.51 / VDDQ 1.51 / VDDQTx 1.51 / SA 1.0 / MC 1.41 !!!
> 
> This scaling was ridiculous. Any memtest (Kharhu, TM5, MemTestPro) stable though.
> 
> Now, for 6666 I moved up the VDD to 1.55 and VDDQ to 1.52 and could reduce MC to 1.34 and potentially lower. It is y-cruncher stable still.
> 
> It seems that y-cruncher is the best memtest nowadays


That's odd I only need 1.28125 for my 6800c32 but my SA I have set it to auto as I find that y-cruncher and Karhu almost always clears when I set it this way. It shows 1.33v SA under hwinfo. I'd try to set SA to auto and try to reduce MC to 1.3125V for starters and work your way down.

Personally I think you're running too low an SA.


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> That's odd I only need 1.28125 for my 6800c32 but my SA I have set it to auto as I find that y-cruncher and Karhu almost always clears when I set it this way. It shows 1.33v SA under hwinfo. I'd try to set SA to auto and try to reduce MC to 1.3125V for starters and work your way down.
> 
> Personally I think you're running too low an SA.


I've been trying SA on auto as well. On auto, starting from 6600, SA is 1.35. No change in stability. Tried 1.40 and 1.45. No difference.

Are there any other voltages or timings I could have too low that requires MC voltage to scale so badly?


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> I've been trying SA on auto as well. On auto, starting from 6600, SA is 1.35. No change in stability. Tried 1.40 and 1.45. No difference.


Have you tried keeping SA on auto and tried to reduce MC downwards and check for stability?


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> Have you tried keeping SA on auto and tried to reduce MC downwards and check for stability?


I did. Now I am running SA auto (1.35). The y-cruncher crashes still. I downclocked heavy all-core CPU to 51x P-Cores and 41x E-Cores. Cache 43x. Timings I use for 6666:










Memory seems to be stable at TM5.

I can boot with MC at 1.175V and stability in y-cruncher is similar to 1.400V...

No clue what's happening.


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> I did. Now I am running SA auto (1.35). The y-cruncher crashes still. I downclocked heavy all-core CPU to 51x P-Cores and 41x E-Cores. Cache 43x. Timings I use for 6666:
> 
> View attachment 2549908
> 
> 
> Memory seems to be stable at TM5.
> 
> I can boot with MC at 1.175V and stability in y-cruncher is similar to 1.400V...
> 
> No clue what's happening.
> 
> View attachment 2549909


Could be your rams and/or IMC can't handle C30 or you've have to dump disproportionately more voltage to get it stable. Try 32 and see if it still crashes. You might be able to bring down voltages quite a bit.

Another thing you can try is to disable your E-cores and see if it can pass with the current setting.


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> Could be your rams and/or IMC can't handle C30 or you've have to dump disproportionately more voltage to get it stable. Try 32 and see if it still crashes. You might be able to bring down voltages quite a bit.
> 
> Another thing you can try is to disable your E-cores and see if it can pass with the current setting.


SA on auto = 1.35
MC on auto = 1.34375
CL and CWL = 32
Frequency = 6666


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> SA on auto = 1.35
> MC on auto = 1.34375
> CL and CWL = 32
> Frequency = 6666
> 
> View attachment 2549910


If this works, I'd try to work MC down to 1.3V and see if it still is stable. The rest of your voltages looks fine. Even I could not get 6800c30 completely stable without dumping a ton of voltage. So I settled for C32.


----------



## 7empe

7empe said:


> SA on auto = 1.35
> MC on auto = 1.34375
> CL and CWL = 32
> Frequency = 6666
> 
> View attachment 2549910


CPU is SP88 (P97, E76). I downclocked CPU to run 51x all-core with TVB+2 while trying to nail down the issue. With this CPU I can run 53x all core with 57x on 3 cores, 55x on 5 cores. I still think I am missing something, and the wall I'm hitting with y-cruncher is not IMC limit. Why running IMC at 1.17V gives the same stability as any higher voltage?

Apex with 1101 BIOS.


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> CPU is SP88 (P97, E76). I downclocked CPU to run 51x all-core with TVB+2 while trying to nail down the issue. With this CPU I can run 53x all core with 57x on 3 cores, 55x on 5 cores. I still think I am missing something, and the wall I'm hitting with y-cruncher is not IMC limit. Why running IMC at 1.17V gives the same stability as any higher voltage?
> 
> Apex with 1101 BIOS.


Odd I'm on 9902 bios though and that works quite well. Maybe you could try 9902 to see if that works better for you.


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> Odd I'm on 9902 bios though and that works quite well. Maybe you could try 9902 to see if that works better for you.


Where did you get 9902 from?


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> Where did you get 9902 from?


It's posted a few pages back.
Here you go :









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Could You please post Your .cmo file from Your BiOS/UEFi? Your profile export? I was able to get a text file of my settings.




www.overclock.net


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> It's posted a few pages back.
> Here you go :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Could You please post Your .cmo file from Your BiOS/UEFi? Your profile export? I was able to get a text file of my settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thank you very much. You’re very kind!
Now I will switch the BIOS and see what happens. As far as I can see in the post, 9902 is a beta BIOS and is newer than 1101. Is there any newer version after 9902?


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> Thank you very much. You’re very kind!
> Now I will switch the BIOS and see what happens. As far as I can see in the post, 9902 is a beta BIOS and is newer than 1101. Is there any newer version after 9902?


9902 is the latest as far as I'm aware and it works quite well so far for my setup so I'm sticking to it. This DDR5 **** made me spend most of my life in the BIOS. Not fun.


----------



## 7empe

Feel the same. Just like whole z690 with ddr5 would be a beta test platform.


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> Feel the same. Just like whole z690 with ddr5 would be a beta test platform.


Yet ppl wanna run XMP on 4 sticks of ram hoping for a miracle. 😂


----------



## db000

satinghostrider said:


> 9902 is the latest as far as I'm aware and it works quite well so far for my setup so I'm sticking to it. This DDR5 **** made me spend most of my life in the BIOS. Not fun.


But spending time in BIOS is fun! all late nights  Its like a game, when I'm bored of Apex Legends. I open a beer, reboot into BIOS and tweak one setting, wreck stability and here we go again, new target freq or timings  You get sleepy, load old faithful profile and go to bed. Repeat.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP88 - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25

*2x16GB DDR5-6933 30-42-42-32-2T
VDD 1.60v | VDDQ 1.55v | TX VDDQ 1.50v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.36v*


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> Yet ppl wanna run XMP on 4 sticks of ram hoping for a miracle. 😂


So. On 9902 now. I took my 6600 profile to find out what I could do now.

I could reduce MC voltage from 1331 mV to 1287 mV.

But, I am not sure if this is pure benefit of 9902 bios, or two more things I noticed before:

a) Don't leave MC Calculation Voltage Base on Auto. Something wrong is happening from boot to boot here. What I did was setting lower MC voltage for calculations than used in runtime (1240 mV vs 1287 mV). Since it's hardcoded, boots fine every time, including cmos clear and psu power off.

b) Setting VDDQTx higher than on auto. On auto VDDQTx = VDD. I changed that by setting VDDQTx slightly higher. Seems to help lowering MC voltage (e.g. VDD=VDDQ=1500 mV, VDDQTx=1520 mV).


----------



## 7empe

7empe said:


> So. On 9902 now. I took my 6600 profile to find out what I could do now.
> 
> I could reduce MC voltage from 1331 mV to 1287 mV.
> 
> But, I am not sure if this is pure benefit of 9902 bios, or two more things I noticed before:
> 
> a) Don't leave MC Calculation Voltage Base on Auto. Something wrong is happening from boot to boot here. What I did was setting lower MC voltage for calculations than used in runtime (1240 mV vs 1287 mV). Since it's hardcoded, boots fine every time, including cmos clear and psu power off.
> 
> b) Setting VDDQTx higher than on auto. On auto VDDQTx = VDD. I changed that by setting VDDQTx slightly higher. Seems to help lowering MC voltage (e.g. VDD=VDDQ=1500 mV, VDDQTx=1520 mV).


Now 6666 with exactly the same MC voltage.









Thanks @satinghostrider for your suggestions!


----------



## 7empe

And 6800 with MC at 1.325V. Makes sense now, huh?


----------



## gtz

Figured I would post here, running a 12900KF on a Z690 Master with some dell green hynix sticks. Don't really know if it is the board or the sticks, but currently stuck at 6133. But 6133 has been rock solid.


----------



## 7empe

So far, so good. 6933c30.


----------



## Arni90

I feel like I'm missing something, I have the same problem @7empe had with sudden instability at 6666 while 6600 was benchable, MC VDD seemingly doesn't care whether it's at 1.20V or 1.40V regarding booting vs benching.

I can set the exact same settings for MC and MC Calculation, as well as VDDQ Tx. Yet they don't help, 6666 is still completely out of reach even at 40-50-50-50, while 6600 can bench at 32-38-38-32 at the same voltage.

I don't get it.


----------



## bscool

The 6600+ curse....... 16:30


*



*


----------



## 7empe

Arni90 said:


> I feel like I'm missing something, I have the same problem @7empe had with sudden instability at 6666 while 6600 was benchable, MC VDD seemingly doesn't care whether it's at 1.20V or 1.40V regarding booting vs benching.
> 
> I can set the exact same settings for MC and MC Calculation, as well as VDDQ Tx. Yet they don't help, 6666 is still completely out of reach even at 40-50-50-50, while 6600 can bench at 32-38-38-32 at the same voltage.
> 
> I don't get it.


MC Calculation >1.28 means a complete mess. Can’t post at all at any 6600+ frequency. Kept it at 1.27. However, higher you go with MC Voltage (higher the gap between those two), then stability is getting worse and worse.

Apex bios 9902 says that max for MC calculation is something like 2.2. Why the hell it does not work past 1.28 is mysterious to me, but I believe this is a reason why auto calculations does not work and why getting MC stable past 1.3 is so hard.

When on auto, then forget about y-cruncher stability. I think that auto for MC calc is something like default 1.11V.


----------



## johnksss

Coolon said:


> Looking for advice on the next step
> I have the same kit Gskill 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4v
> Asus extreme z690 motherboard BIOS 1101
> In XMP 1 it didn’t even post without me manually adjusting MC to 1.2 or 1.25 (1.3 no post again)
> XMP 2 lots of errors quick in the memtest86!
> XM1 gives a errors in memtest86 too so
> What I tested already:
> 
> VDD 1.4 VDDQ 1.4 MC 1.25 and different SA voltages 0.96/1.0/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2/1.25 (0.96, 1.0, it takes longer to produce any errors in memtest86 – errors on the third pass)
> VDD 1.435 VDDQ 1.435 MC 1.25 SA AUTO Errors
> Disabling XMP 1 and put all timings and voltages into manual mode
> Disabling fast boot
> No overheat – I have 140mm cooler on top of memory while testing!
> Maximus tweaks 1 and 2 not helping
> Looking for some advice on extra steps I can do to make it stable for daily work!
> Since I’m not into overclocking I might miss something simple and vital!
> Previously I had G Skill 36-36-36-76 6000mhz and only able to make it stable at 5600mhz(Karhu and testmem5 extreme profile)





pbytano said:


> I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned. I reversed course and settled on this instead for the time being. Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users.
> 
> I gave up trying to stabilize 6400 on the Maximus Extreme, trying 1003, 1101 and every setting you already mentioned.
> I reversed course and settled on these stable tightened timings as much as possible at 6000 instead (atleast for the time being).
> Hope this helps other disappointed Maximus Extreme users with ram OC capabilities!
> 
> View attachment 2548993


I may have a profile for you guys to try(Only 6000 Mhz right now), but getting this board stable at 6400Mhz is a nightmare. I also recommend being very careful using Bios 1101 as it killed a stick of ram for me. Computer crashed and then no more stable stock settings on any bios out of the stick that was in the B2 slot..

I'm using 0811 for the time being.


----------



## Zemach

Kingston fury 6000 OC 6600 c28 38 38 28 2t VDD1.635(drop) VDDQ1.5(drop) VDDQ TX 1.54 MC Auto Sa 1.25


----------



## nickolp1974

7empe said:


> And 6800 with MC at 1.325V. Makes sense now, huh?


Another bios to install tonight then!! Looks like some good results to be had


----------



## sippo

New MSI Unify-X bios: E7D28IMS.A24.zip
resolve problem with c-states


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> Now 6666 with exactly the same MC voltage.
> View attachment 2549924
> 
> 
> Thanks @satinghostrider for your suggestions!


How come I don't see spd hub in my turbo vcore on my apex like you do in this screen shot?


----------



## 7empe

truehighroller1 said:


> How come I don't see spd hub in my turbo vcore on my apex like you do in this screen shot?


Different vcore version?


----------



## asdkj1740

sippo said:


> New MSI Unify-X bios: E7D28IMS.A24.zip
> resolve problem with c-states


it seems msi has uploaded the latest beta bios with this problem fixed for the whole lineup on their official product pages.

"Improved ethernet LAN connection issue only when ASPM L1 of PCIe device or CPU C-State settings have been changed manually."


----------



## Afferin

Hey, I'm looking for some advice. I'm having a series of issues that kinda point towards maybe some severe degradation, but I'd like to know if there's anything I can do.

The best I can get stable is 6400 34-38-38-34 2T. 6600 will boot but I can't get it stable. This is at 1.425v VDD, VDDQ, VDDQ TX, and 1.15v VCCSA and 1.225v IMC.
I can't get 1T to boot no matter what. Not even at 6000CL40
I'm using the Team Force 6400CL40 kit
Optimized defaults will not run. If I clear CMOS and load optimized defaults, it boot loops and will not turn on with default settings.
CPU SP is 83
Running on a Formula

I'm trying to get 1T working, or maybe just get 6600+ stable. Does anyone have any tips?


----------



## Balaned

I was firmly stuck at 6600 on Unify-X With Corsair Dominator 6200 Hynix but A.24 and a little tweaking got me to 6800 CL32. Stable with anything I've thrown at it so far. I also replaced the fan in the Vengeance cooler with a 60mm PWM Noctua. Both temps and noise are down, it was previously the loudest piece in my system but now I can't hear it.


----------



## Nizzen

Sorry about few updates lately, but now I'm ready for ramtest 
Testing 6800 with pretty tight timings. Wish me luck 😅
Edit: Had to loose abit, but here we go 

Testing as we speak. Looks like Apex is a strong board! I don't know but is Apex running way lower IOL/RTL's than MSI?


----------



## Carillo

Anyone have link for 9902 bios ?


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Anyone have link for 9902 bios ?











ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9902.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Nizzen

Stock cpu, shadowplay and Armory on and aircooled dimms XD

Benchmarks are fun 









6800 with cpu oc


----------



## 7empe

Hey. If you’re struggling with Apex and stability of your overclock, check this out:

MC voltage change does not perform correct recalculates during POST if fast boot is enabled. Disable it while playing with voltage for proper calculation of voltage-dependant variables;
MC calculation voltage shall be the mid point of your MC voltage under heavy load and idle. For heavy load I use y-cruncher. Example: if you have 1.3475 V set in the bios, it will be something like 1.314 V under load and 1.334 V idle. Take 1.325 V for calculations. This mitigates an issue of floating boot-to-boot stability, while having this option on auto.
Cheers.

P.S. I thought that 6600c30 is all I could achieve. Now I’m at 7000c30.


----------



## Nargil

I'm having trouble running my memory @ XMP:
gigabyte ud4 z690
12700kf
adata lancer 2x16GB 6000-40-40-76 (samsung)

With original F3 bios it wasn't even windows stable. With F6 it boots, but fails in prime95 large fft after few minutes. Even the CL does not really matter: having that instability at CL40 I was still able to get down to CL30, boot launch p95 for few minutes. IMHO: that's turbo weird. Tried boosting vdd/q to 1.45 but it didn't change anything. Neither did vccsa 1.425 (nor 1.25 for that matter, bios-auto sets it at 1.346ish).

running all auto voltages:
5600-30-32-32-64 needed 4h to fail. (currently testing 5600-30-40-40-76)
5800-40-40-40-76 needed less than 1h to fail
6000-40-40-40-76 needed 5 minutes to fail

Any help appreciated:









There is also this worrying aspect of voltage drops on VPP on one of the sticks. Observed in biois: A1 keeps 1.8 @ 1.785-18, whilst B1 fluctuates down to 1.35:


----------



## stahlhart

Nargil said:


> I'm having trouble running my memory @ XMP:
> gigabyte ud4 z690
> 12700kf
> adata lancer 2x16GB 6000-40-40-76 (samsung)
> 
> With original F3 bios it wasn't even windows stable. With F6 it boots, but fails in prime95 large fft after few minutes. Even the CL does not really matter: having that instability at CL40 I was still able to get down to CL30, boot launch p95 for few minutes. IMHO: that's turbo weird. Tried boosting vdd/q to 1.45 but it didn't change anything. Neither did vccsa 1.425 (nor 1.25 for that matter, bios-auto sets it at 1.346ish).
> 
> running all auto voltages:
> 5600-30-32-32-64 needed 4h to fail. (currently testing 5600-30-40-40-76)
> 5800-40-40-40-76 needed less than 1h to fail
> 6000-40-40-40-76 needed 5 minutes to fail
> 
> Any help appreciated:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is also this worrying aspect of voltage drops on VPP on one of the sticks. Observed in biois: A1 keeps 1.8 @ 1.785-18, whilst B1 fluctuates down to 1.35:


Your SA seems to be a bit high (mine is about 0.93V), and your memory temperatures are troubling.


----------



## johnksss

So I went ahead and grabbed a Unify-X board to see what was going on as the Apex was not in places I wanted to wait for it and low and behold my ram works. Facepalm!
I spent weeks trying to get it to run longer than a few minutes without errors at 6400Mhz.(Asus Maximus Z690 Extreme - Which is now getting packed back up and going right back to the store!)
All I did was set 6600 in bios and let it go. This is the very first result without me doing anything other than setting 6600 and booting to windows.


----------



## sugi0lover

[my DDR5 OC : 7200 CL30]

[Edit] now rock sold stable at gaming~
had to change Trp 41->42, Tras 28-> 26








DDR5 Stable OC : 7200Mhz CL30 (12900K + Z690 Apex)


New item added to shared album




photos.app.goo.gl


----------



## sugi0lover

[OC result posted with Samsung Module]

Ram : G.SKILL 6000 C36 used
OC : 6933 CL32 / VDD 1.55 / VDDQ /1.54 / TX 1.54 / MC 1.4 / SA 1.25 / 120mm Fan Cooling


----------



## leonman44

Guys i think that my latency is too high , i have the trident z5 rgb ddr5 6000mhz 40cas kit. No matter what i can not boot with 1T even using 1.5v at 6000mhz 40 cas so i justy went for 6200mhz and reduced timmings but still it seems that something is not that right. 
Using 1.42v right now.


----------



## leonman44

Double post sorry.


----------



## stahlhart

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550117
> 
> 
> Guys i think that my latency is too high, i have the Trident z5 rgb ddr5 6000mhz 40cas kit. No matter what i cannot boot with 1T even using 1.5v at 6000mhz 40 cas so I just went for 6200mhz and reduced timings but still it seems that something is not that right.
> Using 1.42v right now.












I ran into the same issue with my Trident Z kit. I managed to bump it up to 6000 with slightly more VDD/VDDQ and SA auto at around 0.9V, and it's rock solid no matter what I throw at it, but these won't do better than C36 or 2T (C34 at 5800, though). It feels like there is a floor at about 65nS no matter how much I clean up the OS or what I try to tighten from here, so I've more or less accepted that it's the best that this RAM and motherboard combination will do, unless there is a trick to lowering RTLs that I'm missing.

Good luck with your build...


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> Hey. If you’re struggling with Apex and stability of your overclock, check this out:
> 
> MC voltage change does not perform correct recalculates during POST if fast boot is enabled. Disable it while playing with voltage for proper calculation of voltage-dependant variables;
> MC calculation voltage shall be the mid point of your MC voltage under heavy load and idle. For heavy load I use y-cruncher. Example: if you have 1.3475 V set in the bios, it will be something like 1.314 V under load and 1.334 V idle. Take 1.325 V for calculations. This mitigates an issue of floating boot-to-boot stability, while having this option on auto.
> Cheers.
> 
> P.S. I thought that 6600c30 is all I could achieve. Now I’m at 7000c30.



So you manually set both calculations?


----------



## 7empe

truehighroller1 said:


> So you manually set both calculations?


Yep.


----------



## leonman44

stahlhart said:


> I ran into the same issue with my Trident Z kit. I managed to bump it up to 6000 with slightly more VDD/VDDQ and SA auto at around 0.9V, and it's rock solid no matter what I throw at it, but these won't do better than C36 or 2T (C34 at 5800, though). It feels like there is a floor at about 65nS no matter how much I clean up the OS or what I try to tighten from here, so I've more or less accepted that it's the best that this RAM and motherboard combination will do, unless there is a trick to lowering RTLs that I'm missing.
> 
> Good luck with your build...


Thanks mate ! But still you have lower latency while having slower main timings which I can not understand , are you on windows 10 ? I have also my os very clean , basically I did a windows 11 clean install yesterday and disabled everything not necessary. So I really don’t think that it’s the os.


----------



## b0bd0le

7empe said:


> Hey. If you’re struggling with Apex and stability of your overclock, check this out:
> 
> MC voltage change does not perform correct recalculates during POST if fast boot is enabled. Disable it while playing with voltage for proper calculation of voltage-dependant variables;
> MC calculation voltage shall be the mid point of your MC voltage under heavy load and idle. For heavy load I use y-cruncher. Example: if you have 1.3475 V set in the bios, it will be something like 1.314 V under load and 1.334 V idle. Take 1.325 V for calculations. This mitigates an issue of floating boot-to-boot stability, while having this option on auto.
> Cheers.
> 
> P.S. I thought that 6600c30 is all I could achieve. Now I’m at 7000c30.


This has helped so much! Apex on 9902 bios, and it has taken me WEEKS to get 6400 XMP stable, 6600 would run karhu for 20 seconds and nothing I'd do would help. I had realized the auto voltage for SA and the IMC was wildly inconsistent. Manually dialed in those settings allowed 6400 "XMP" to run kharu for 64312% on coverage. Stability, finally. 6600mhz was still not working. However, now with your advice, *6800mhz *is stable for 10~15 minutes!

Ooops nevermind - I was actually at 6600mhz for those tests - 6800mhz is failing kharu at 7~10seconds.


----------



## stahlhart

leonman44 said:


> Thanks mate ! But still you have lower latency while having slower main timings which I can not understand , are you on windows 10 ? I have also my os very clean , basically I did a windows 11 clean install yesterday and disabled everything not necessary. So I really don’t think that it’s the os.


Windows 11 Pro. I did the same thing as you, wiped the slate clean and started with a bare minimum OS. About all that I noticed that was making a significant contribution to latency was NZXT Cam (I have a Kraken Z73), but that was only about 1-2nS at the most when disabled.

Which motherboard do you have, and can you post your timings?

Something else to try is Process Lasso to see if you have anything in the background consuming an inordinate amount of resources, though if you did a clean installation, you probably don't.

Did you start by clearing BIOS and setting an XMP profile? I'm probably wrong, but I think that that puts all of the initial best effort timings into place, and then you can switch to manual settings from there. I started by bumping frequency up first, 6000 was the highest I could get stable. I tried lowering CAS from there, starting at 40, where BIOS set it for 6000, and was able to get down to 36. CAS 34 and/or 1T, and it's Gomez Addams crashing the trains. Increasing tREFI and lowering tCKE from there seemed to have the most impact on latency. The rest of the timings are Auto, as nothing else I tighten from here seems to budge anything. At XMP, latency with this memory was about 80nS, so I did manage to lower it about 15 with what little I tweaked.


----------



## splmann

Got a new CPU (BCLK OC) 
IMC is better then my 12900k


----------



## sblantipodi

johnksss said:


> So I went ahead and grabbed a Unify-X board to see what was going on as the Apex was not in places I wanted to wait for it and low and behold my ram works. Facepalm!
> I spent weeks trying to get it to run longer than a few minutes without errors at 6400Mhz.(Asus Maximus Z690 Extreme - Which is now getting packed back up and going right back to the store!)
> All I did was set 6600 in bios and let it go. This is the very first result without me doing anything other than setting 6600 and booting to windows.
> 
> View attachment 2550100


Another glad Asus Extreme user I see...
I can't understand why Asus produces boards that costs more and perform less.


----------



## leonman44

stahlhart said:


> Windows 11 Pro. I did the same thing as you, wiped the slate clean and started with a bare minimum OS. About all that I noticed that was making a significant contribution to latency was NZXT Cam (I have a Kraken Z73), but that was only about 1-2nS at the most when disabled.
> 
> Which motherboard do you have, and can you post your timings?
> 
> Something else to try is Process Lasso to see if you have anything in the background consuming an inordinate amount of resources, though if you did a clean installation, you probably don't.
> 
> Did you start by clearing BIOS and setting an XMP profile? I'm probably wrong, but I think that that puts all of the initial best effort timings into place, and then you can switch to manual settings from there. I started by bumping frequency up first, 6000 was the highest I could get stable. I tried lowering CAS from there, starting at 40, where BIOS set it for 6000, and was able to get down to 36. CAS 34 and/or 1T, and it's Gomez Addams crashing the trains. Increasing tREFI and lowering tCKE from there seemed to have the most impact on latency. The rest of the timings are Auto, as nothing else I tighten from here seems to budge anything. At XMP, latency with this memory was about 80nS, so I did manage to lower it about 15 with what little I tweaked.


Yes I used the Xmp profile and then worked only the main timings and bumped the frequency from 6000 to 6200 as 6400 booted but failed immediately within seconds in the Aida stress test.
I will post all the timings tomorrow.


----------



## nickolp1974

stahlhart said:


> I ran into the same issue with my Trident Z kit. I managed to bump it up to 6000 with slightly more VDD/VDDQ and SA auto at around 0.9V, and it's rock solid no matter what I throw at it, but these won't do better than C36 or 2T (C34 at 5800, though). It feels like there is a floor at about 65nS no matter how much I clean up the OS or what I try to tighten from here, so I've more or less accepted that it's the best that this RAM and motherboard combination will do, unless there is a trick to lowering RTLs that I'm missing.
> 
> Good luck with your build...





leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550117
> 
> 
> Guys i think that my latency is too high , i have the trident z5 rgb ddr5 6000mhz 40cas kit. No matter what i can not boot with 1T even using 1.5v at 6000mhz 40 cas so i justy went for 6200mhz and reduced timmings but still it seems that something is not that right.
> Using 1.42v right now.





stahlhart said:


> I ran into the same issue with my Trident Z kit. I managed to bump it up to 6000 with slightly more VDD/VDDQ and SA auto at around 0.9V, and it's rock solid no matter what I throw at it, but these won't do better than C36 or 2T (C34 at 5800, though). It feels like there is a floor at about 65nS no matter how much I clean up the OS or what I try to tighten from here, so I've more or less accepted that it's the best that this RAM and motherboard combination will do, unless there is a trick to lowering RTLs that I'm missing.
> 
> Good luck with your build...



Tighten your 2nd and 3rd timings, all the ones below your primarys. If you leave those on auto they will just slacken if you decrease your primary's


----------



## Simkin

7empe said:


> Hey. If you’re struggling with Apex and stability of your overclock, check this out:
> 
> MC voltage change does not perform correct recalculates during POST if fast boot is enabled. Disable it while playing with voltage for proper calculation of voltage-dependant variables;
> MC calculation voltage shall be the mid point of your MC voltage under heavy load and idle. For heavy load I use y-cruncher. Example: if you have 1.3475 V set in the bios, it will be something like 1.314 V under load and 1.334 V idle. Take 1.325 V for calculations. This mitigates an issue of floating boot-to-boot stability, while having this option on auto.
> Cheers.
> 
> P.S. I thought that 6600c30 is all I could achieve. Now I’m at 7000c30.


When changing voltages, its not necessary to clear cmos, only have fastboot disabled?


----------



## johnksss

sblantipodi said:


> Another glad Asus Extreme user I see...
> I can't understand why Asus produces boards that costs more and perform less.


Yes, that memory over clocking killed it for me! And I also forgot how damn fast the MSI board reboots. (Even when retraining memory) The extreme takes forever on just simple reboots.

Edit: Also still on factory bios....facepalm!
All the time I wasted...smh


----------



## stahlhart

nickolp1974 said:


> Tighten your 2nd and 3rd timings, all the ones below your primarys. If you leave those on auto they will just slacken if you decrease your primary's


Okay, thanks much -- have taken almost everything out of Auto in BIOS now:






































There are four timings in the BIOS that are not read (at least in a way that is obvious to me) by the above two apps, which I still have at Auto:

DRAM REF CYCLE TIME R
tRPRE
tWPRE
tCCD_L_tDLLK

Is there another timing viewer that will see the values for these three, or could they just be left at Auto?

There are also two settings:

WRITE TO READ DELAY
WRITE TO READ DELAY L

...that will set to only either Auto or 15, no matter what other integer value I try to enter.


----------



## db000

I'm starting to think I'm insane. Why are my G.Skill sticks dying on me?
I've lost *three* out of *four* G.Skill 6400 CL32 sticks. Two more have died within a week, not using any crazy voltages, max 1.48v because waterblock isnt mounted yet. Error 53 on the two sticks that have been working. The last sticks I was running only XMP/1.4v and it was reporting Max 40c with 120mm fan (copper mounted). 32GB in Windows, stops reporting temps sometimes after a few hours, reboots its fine. Keeps going so for about a few days roughly before it "dies", shows 32GB in Windows, no SPD info/temp, so sticks is there. Reboots and its gone. Error 53... I think the SPD is dying on me. Its was XMP. Thermalpad on both side, fully covered, good contact with ICs. So I dont believe it to be a short, I dont see it. All sticks mounted extemely careful with ESD in mind, all protection used, just to be sure.

So, the ones of you running these sticks of water, what I'm I doing wrong. @Carillo @sugi0lover Anyone else who think they can provide me with some good info.
I've emailed all the info I have to G.Skill. I wanna figure out what is killing the sticks before I go buy yet another set... I know warranty/RMA is probably bust.
I'm currently back on my other Dominators (5600CL36, samsung) sticks for time being.
I've edited my old post about the copper and removed images, dont want to cause anyone else this problem.

Bought from two different deals, but same batch. Confirmed this with dealer.

Fck this sht. Help  Anyone else with Error 55 or 53? Problems with SPD in HWinfo?








_Dead sticks.... Modern art... Idk... not fun..._


----------



## matique

Got some Kingston Hynix in, very happy with the results though I am not sure if I'll run this daily on air. Had to loosen up some timings compared to 6800 but not by too much. 

1.59v vdimm 
1.57v vddq 
1.55v txvddq 
1.38v vdd2/mc 
1.25v SA 

With a ram fan temps peak at 48c during testing, ambient 26c.


----------



## Balaned

Are there generally accepted safe temperature and vdimm maximums for daily OC on Hynix sticks? Mine are cooled with a dedicated fan in a well ventilated case. Thx.


----------



## matique

Balaned said:


> Are there generally accepted safe temperature and vdimm maximums for daily OC on Hynix sticks? Mine are cooled with a dedicated fan in a well ventilated case. Thx.


Generally under 50c is ideal


----------



## Balaned

matique said:


> Generally under 50c is ideal


OK, thank you. I'm at 1.48v right now at 6800 with temps in the lowish 40's. I'd like to go faster with memory settings so is it safe to ramp up the voltage to whatever I can as long as temps stay under 50? As things sit I can get into the OS at 7000 and run some benchmarks but get crashes in some of the tougher stability tests. I believe I'd be able to get 7000 stable with some more juice. I just don't want to smoke my ram.

EDIT: 12900K on Unify-X with Corsair 6200 Hynix if it matters.


----------



## nickolp1974

stahlhart said:


> Okay, thanks much -- have taken almost everything out of Auto in BIOS now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are four timings in the BIOS that are not read (at least in a way that is obvious to me) by the above two apps, which I still have at Auto:
> 
> DRAM REF CYCLE TIME R
> tRPRE
> tWPRE
> tCCD_L_tDLLK
> 
> Is there another timing viewer that will see the values for these three, or could they just be left at Auto?
> 
> There are also two settings:
> 
> WRITE TO READ DELAY
> WRITE TO READ DELAY L
> 
> ...that will set to only either Auto or 15, no matter what other integer value I try to enter.


Now for now as per Asrock timing configurator start at TWR and work your way to the end of the list 1 step at a time. Also look in this thread for already tightened timings be it Samsung or hynix use them as a ballpark, slacken them off a touch and test. A quick way to test is using Y-cruncher which can be found at HWbot.


----------



## owikh84

Day6 OC on MSI Z690I Unify...

Because my old CPU (SP88) was not able to stabilize 7000, I bought a new 12900K to verify the issue and the result turns out to be positive. This new chip has stronger IMC and I haven't tried reducing the voltages and timings etc yet.

12900K MSI CPU Force2 140 - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25

*2x16GB DDR5-7000 30-42-42-28-2T
VDD 1.65v | VDDQ 1.58v | TX VDDQ 1.575v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.38v* 

tREFI 65535:









tREFI 130560:


----------



## matique

owikh84 said:


> Day6 OC on MSI Z690I Unify...
> 
> Because my old CPU (SP88) was not able to stabilize 7000, I bought a new 12900K to verify the issue and the result turns out to be positive. This new chip has stronger IMC and I haven't tried reducing the voltages and timings etc yet.
> 
> 12900K MSI CPU Force2 140 - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7000 30-42-42-28-2T
> VDD 1.65v | VDDQ 1.58v | TX VDDQ 1.575v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.38v*
> 
> tREFI 65535:
> View attachment 2550234
> 
> 
> tREFI 130560:
> View attachment 2550235


Do you need that much voltage? If you have strong imc I reckon you should try for higher voltage if you're comfy with that levels of voltage. I might run 7000c32, needs less voltage at just 1.56v. Putting on aftermarket heatsink on the Kingstons now to bring down temps a little.


----------



## asdkj1740

db000 said:


> I'm starting to think I'm insane. Why are my G.Skill sticks dying on me?
> I've lost *three* out of *four* G.Skill 6400 CL32 sticks. One with Error 55 after mounting the block, probably my fault, talked about this earlier. Two more have died within a week, not using any crazy voltages, max 1.48v because waterblock isnt mounted yet. Error 53 on the two sticks that have been working. The last sticks I was running only XMP/1.4v and it was reporting Max 40c with 120mm fan (copper mounted). 32GB in Windows, stops reporting temps sometimes after a few hours, reboots its fine. Keeps going so for about a few days roughly before it "dies", shows 32GB in Windows, no SPD info/temp, so sticks is there. Reboots and its gone. Error 53... I think the SPD is dying on me. Its was XMP. Thermalpad on both side, fully covered, good contact with ICs. So I dont believe it to be a short, I dont see it. Last two sticks mounted extemely careful with ESD in mind, all protection used, just to be sure.
> 
> So, the ones of you running these sticks of water, what I'm I doing wrong. @Carillo @sugi0lover Anyone else who think they can provide me with some good info.
> I've emailed all the info I have to G.Skill. I wanna figure out what is killing the sticks before I go buy yet another set... I know warranty/RMA is bust.
> I'm currently back on my other Dominators (5600CL36, samsung) sticks for time being.
> I've edited my old post about the copper and removed images, dont want to cause anyone else this problem.
> 
> Serialnumbers, bought from two different dealers.
> XXXXXXX167
> XXXXXXX168
> XXXXXXX187
> XXXXXXX188
> 
> Fck this sht. Help  Anyone else with Error 55 or 53? Problems with SPD in HWinfo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2550199
> 
> _Dead sticks.... Modern art... Idk... not fun..._


the issue of spd/pmic on gskill sticks has been reported by many users.
i have seen ppl saying losing voltages reports on hwinfo64 or even cant get posted because spd is not recognized by mobo.
these are clear evidences for rma, good sign.


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> Do you need that much voltage? If you have strong imc I reckon you should try for higher voltage if you're comfy with that levels of voltage. I might run 7000c32, needs less voltage at just 1.56v. Putting on aftermarket heatsink on the Kingstons now to bring down temps a little.


just a little?
Kingston fury beast ddr5 uses way too thin heatsink...


----------



## asdkj1740

spoted some latest "special//advanced" bios for carbon and pro a.
cant upload the zip files here (zip files are not acceptable here), nor the bios file because they are too big.


----------



## owikh84

matique said:


> Do you need that much voltage? If you have strong imc I reckon you should try for higher voltage if you're comfy with that levels of voltage. I might run 7000c32, needs less voltage at just 1.56v. Putting on aftermarket heatsink on the Kingstons now to bring down temps a little.


The timing and voltage profiles were actually copied from my old chip. Should be able to reduce it a bit, let's see how it goes later. I just put this new chip not long ago lol. 

Good suggestion on the heatsinks, I do have Bitspower heatsink + water block from my old build but not sure whether i will make use of it for these sticks.


----------



## matique

asdkj1740 said:


> just a little?
> Kingston fury beast ddr5 uses way too thin heatsink...





owikh84 said:


> The timing and voltage profiles were actually copied from my old chip. Should be able to reduce it a bit, let's see how it goes later. I just put this new chip not long ago lol.
> 
> Good suggestion on the heatsinks, I do have Bitspower heatsink + water block from my old build but not sure whether i will make use of it for these sticks.




















Got my xtia ddr4 heatspreaders on. Covers memory about 85%. 2mm gelid ultimate on back, 1mm gelid ultimate on memory, 1mm fujipoly 17w on pmic. I then placed kpx on any metal to metal contact. 

Previously after an hour or so on stock heatsink at 1.59v I was around 48C. Let's see what temps are later 😁

BTW owikh, the Kingston Beasts was damn difficult to delid. They used very strong adhesive.


----------



## mxxmmllm

For anyone that want to watercool his ram without loosing his warranty
Running gskill 6400 cl32 @ 6800 cl32 at 1.4V.
Temps are very low as the ram comes first in my external 420 mora loop


----------



## matique

& I thought I've seen everything 😂 if it works, it works.


----------



## matique

Final tune. Temps are in check, dropped from around 48.5c to 43c average. I should be running this as daily


----------



## leonman44

Could reduce my timmings a bit further and tightened secondary timmings a bit , thats the best result so far using 1.43v.

Where can i find the software for the analytical timmings ? I tried googling the mem tweakit but couldnt find any official download link.


----------



## Balaned

leonman44 said:


> Where can i find the software for the analytical timmings ? I tried googling the mem tweakit but couldnt find any official download link.


At the top of the first page for the Z690 DD4 overclock thread.


----------



## db000

mxxmmllm said:


> For anyone that want to watercool his ram without loosing his warranty
> Running gskill 6400 cl32 @ 6800 cl32 at 1.4V.
> Temps are very low as the ram comes first in my external 420 mora loop


Some top quality German engineering right there  "If it works, it works" sums it up pretty well 😂


----------



## Nizzen

FPS in BF V LOL
(Dell green Hynix)


----------



## CptSpig

G.Skill 6400 kit at 6600 CR1, 6800 CR2 and 7000 CR2 all on air cooling. See HWiNFO64 for voltages and temperatures.


----------



## jollib

Anyone using the alphacool. ram and waterblock for ddr5. I’m trying to
Figure out if I want that or the monarchs. But they are also all x4. I really want a 2 dimm block.But I can’t find any x2 waterblocks except for bykski


----------



## bscool

Just finished running Karhu and playing some CSGO and then ran Aida64 and y cruncher so # could probably be better on fresh reboot but they are what they are.

bios 9902 with ucode 15.

No binning cpu or mem I only bought 1 of each. MB is the key it looks like as original MB only did 6666c30.

Ram air cooled and cpucooler AIO ambient temp 72f.

New MB much more consistent with training memory and not needing to clear cmos when setting new timings.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone able to run y cruncher at 5.4 or 5.5 without turning off ht and ecore?


----------



## munternet

Apex 2 dimm board
Tried the Adata XPG 6000c40 2x16GB Hynix sticks @ XMP and tried the Dell 4800 Hynix sticks with the exact same settings, voltages and fans and there is a 10°c difference
It seems the Adata heat spreaders don't spread heat but rather insulate. Either that or the gap between the naked sticks plays a huge part in air cooling
Maybe they aren't heat spreaders at all but just eye candy like the purdy lights?


----------



## bscool

munternet said:


> Apex 2 dimm board
> Tried the Adata XPG 6000c40 2x16GB Hynix sticks @ XMP and tried the Dell 4800 Hynix sticks with the exact same settings, voltages and fans and there is a 10°c difference
> It seems the Adata heat spreaders don't spread heat but rather insulate. Either that or the gap between the naked sticks plays a huge part in air cooling
> Maybe they aren't heat spreaders at all but just eye candy like the purdy lights?


Are they the Adata Lancer or Caster? I see in the USA the Caster were $250 on Amazon for 6000c40 kit 2x16 non rgb.


----------



## munternet

bscool said:


> Are they the Adata Lancer or Caster? I see in the USA the Caster were $250 on Amazon for 6000c40 kit 2x16 non rgb.


These must be the Lancer I guess. They have the lights


----------



## Nizzen

munternet said:


> Apex 2 dimm board
> Tried the Adata XPG 6000c40 2x16GB Hynix sticks @ XMP and tried the Dell 4800 Hynix sticks with the exact same settings, voltages and fans and there is a 10°c difference
> It seems the Adata heat spreaders don't spread heat but rather insulate. Either that or the gap between the naked sticks plays a huge part in air cooling
> Maybe they aren't heat spreaders at all but just eye candy like the purdy lights?


Don't think there is one heatspreader on any ddr5 stick that are cooling better than no heatspreader, IF you have active aircooling. Read Fan direct over dimms.

My supercool computer dimm water block is crazy good without water. 1.6v dimm and they are holding under 40c in games when active cooled with air. Ps: they are heavy 😁


----------



## db000

Just picked up and installed the third kit of G.Skill 6400 CL32. Will be running these for about a month and not remove the heatspreaders. Much higher serialnumbers on these. No response from G.Skill yet, I hope we can get a conversation going this week.


----------



## AYTOKPATOP

Did anyone tried to OC the Kingston Fury 6000Mhz C40 kit? (KF560C40BBK2-32)


----------



## db000

I'm not sure of what to make of this now. Is my Apex broken? 
1) Loaded optimized default
2) Enabled XMP
3) The new kit losing SPD info in HWinfo and CPU-Z. WHAT THE?!
4) Rebar Enabled + Aura = Stealth mode
Been using these for 1 hour now only. 

Reboot shows one of the sticks as +0c and the other is fine.
Reboot again, shows temps OK and Windows is fine for a few minutes. Then temps go grey or one or both SPDs go missing.
"SPD Write Disabled" is True (So Windows cant mess with the SPDs etc.) 

Armory crate(Asus aura) is not installed, G.skill RGB Latest version is installed(1.00.29). Is the G.Skill RGB Software killing the SPDs? Like the old threads?
Do you guys have the RGB software installed??

I expect on or both of these sticks to Show Error 53 soon now.. Wth.. I have not removed the heatspreaders atleast this time...


----------



## mxxmmllm

db000 said:


> I'm not sure of what to make of this now. Is my Apex broken?
> 1) Loaded optimized default
> 2) Enabled XMP
> 3) The new kit losing SPD info in HWinfo and CPU-Z. WHAT THE?!
> 4) Rebar Enabled + Aura = Stealth mode
> Been using these for 1 hour now only.
> 
> Reboot shows one of the sticks as +0c and the other is fine.
> Reboot again, shows temps OK and Windows is fine for a few minutes. Then temps go grey or one or both SPDs go missing.
> "SPD Write Disabled" is True (So Windows cant mess with the SPDs etc.)
> 
> Armory crate(Asus aura) is not installed, G.skill RGB Latest version is installed(1.00.29). Is the G.Skill RGB Software killing the SPDs? Like the old threads?
> Do you guys have the RGB software installed??
> 
> I expect on or both of these sticks to Show Error 53 soon now.. Wth.. I have not removed the heatspreaders atleast this time...
> 
> View attachment 2550384
> 
> View attachment 2550385
> 
> 
> View attachment 2550387
> View attachment 2550386


i bought the non rgb ones as it was a steal for 460 Euros. No problems so far. I uninstalled every software like i cue or any rgb software and went with a total stealth build. Maybe some software is blocking the readout idk. Or you mainboard is killing ram.
Very strange that there is no voltage readout. Maybe your board pumping way too much voltage into these kits??


----------



## db000

Update: One of the sticks died (Error 53) as expected, no SPD visible in Windows but 32GB RAM, all working "fine". Reboot and its dead. Different channels, so its not just the same channel all the times. This was within one hour of testing XMP in Windows. When clicking on the G.Skill software to run off RGB Windows freezes and it was after that +0c was shown upon reboot. Dealer agreed to give me refund for the second kit and replace the third kit. So currently on my fourth with G.Skill RGB Software UNINSTALLED. IF that is the cause of corruption or not, lets see. The dealer could see that all my modules was from the same batch. Idk.... Is it my Apex, this batch, RGB software or CPU?! I'll keep you posted for sure.

So as of now: Running 6400 CL32 sticks with heatspeaders on (ofc..) and no RGB software. XMP nothing else.


----------



## mxxmmllm

db000 said:


> Update: One of the sticks died (Error 53) as expected, no SPD visible in Windows but 32GB RAM, all working "fine". Reboot and its dead. Different channels, so its not just the same channel all the times. This was within one hour of testing XMP in Windows. When clicking on the G.Skill software to run off RGB Windows freezes and it was after that +0c was shown upon reboot. Dealer agreed to give me refund for the second kit and replace the third kit. So currently on my fourth with G.Skill RGB Software UNINSTALLED. IF that is the cause of corruption or not, lets see. The dealer could see that all my modules was from the same batch. Idk.... Is it my Apex, this batch, RGB software or CPU?! I'll keep you posted for sure.


My pro tip: Never use RGB software ever on your pc. It nearly killed my 3090


----------



## db000

mxxmmllm said:


> My pro tip: Never use RGB software ever on your pc. It nearly killed my 3090


If I could buy these without RGB I would  I wanna turn them off with G.Skills own software, so its... yee.. whatever. Its not like im using an old version or something, its litterly the latest off their site with support for these. But anyway.. I just wanna be clear. This is a THEORY of mine, lets see if the sticks can stay alive.The fourth kit I use now is just a few number away from the third kit.

Edit: So far, so good. Few reboots, starting CPU-Z, ATC, HWinfo. Everything loads SPD fine. Will update later, if something changes.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Samsung ics








Subs Auto and not able to run gb3 🤣


----------



## db000

snakeeyes111 said:


> Samsung ics
> View attachment 2550399
> 
> 
> Subs Auto and not able to run gb3 🤣


Is 6000U40 comparable to 5600CL36 bin? I wonder if my Dominators 5600 (samsung) can do this, with a stronger IMC


----------



## snakeeyes111

I think it dont make sense. U need to bin by yourself. Go 30 kits and take the best.


----------



## sblantipodi

ordered 6200 C36 Hinyx, let's see if they are better with 4 sticks.
I can't find 2x32GB unfortunantly.


----------



## matique

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone able to run y cruncher at 5.4 or 5.5 without turning off ht and ecore?




















matique`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 56sec 880ms with a Core i9 12900K


The Core i9 12900K @ 5400MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b benchmark. matiqueranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org





Here ya go


----------



## 7empe

Guys, I think I lost my mind. Starting from 6800+ I have following issue (Apex 9902).

Looking for a cause of an issue, so:

CPU Stock
RAM G.SKILL 6400C32 at 1.42V/1.42V running 6800C32-39-39-76. All other timings on Auto.
Got to Windows and run p95 small FFT AVX disabled. Errors almost immediately on 112K (L3?). No matter what SA (tried 1.1 - 1.4) and MC Voltage (tried 1.2 - 1.4) issue persist.
Now it's the funny part.
Got to Windows at SA 1.25 and MC 1.25. Errors in p95 small FFT AVX disabled. Move MC voltage slider in TurboV Core by 3 steps to 1.26875. Test perfectly stable now. Boot to BIOS, enter this value. Back in Windows and same errors again. Moved slider by another 2-3 steps. Perfectly stable. And so on...

Something wrong with BIOS calculations? Some board training issue?


----------



## CptSpig

db000 said:


> I'm not sure of what to make of this now. Is my Apex broken?
> 1) Loaded optimized default
> 2) Enabled XMP
> 3) The new kit losing SPD info in HWinfo and CPU-Z. WHAT THE?!
> 4) Rebar Enabled + Aura = Stealth mode
> Been using these for 1 hour now only.
> 
> Reboot shows one of the sticks as +0c and the other is fine.
> Reboot again, shows temps OK and Windows is fine for a few minutes. Then temps go grey or one or both SPDs go missing.
> "SPD Write Disabled" is True (So Windows cant mess with the SPDs etc.)
> 
> Armory crate(Asus aura) is not installed, G.skill RGB Latest version is installed(1.00.29). Is the G.Skill RGB Software killing the SPDs? Like the old threads?
> Do you guys have the RGB software installed??
> 
> I expect on or both of these sticks to Show Error 53 soon now.. Wth.. I have not removed the heatspreaders atleast this time...


I have the same kit 6400 G.Skill. I installed G.Skill software and set the color. It now works with armory crate. I also have iCUE running for key board and mouse. Everything work fine. You can use only the G.Skill and iCUE without Armory Crate. And control with iCUE.


----------



## borant

deleted


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> Guys, I think I lost my mind. Starting from 6800+ I have following issue (Apex 9902).
> 
> Looking for a cause of an issue, so:
> 
> CPU Stock
> RAM G.SKILL 6400C32 at 1.42V/1.42V running 6800C32-39-39-76. All other timings on Auto.
> Got to Windows and run p95 small FFT AVX disabled. Errors almost immediately on 112K (L3?). No matter what SA (tried 1.1 - 1.4) and MC Voltage (tried 1.2 - 1.4) issue persist.
> Now it's the funny part.
> Got to Windows at SA 1.25 and MC 1.25. Errors in p95 small FFT AVX disabled. Move MC voltage slider in TurboV Core by 3 steps to 1.26875. Test perfectly stable now. Boot to BIOS, enter this value. Back in Windows and same errors again. Moved slider by another 2-3 steps. Perfectly stable. And so on...
> 
> Something wrong with BIOS calculations? Some board training issue?


I'd reset the bios and power cycle it and punch in the right settings again. Try to see if that works.


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> I'd reset the bios and power cycle it and punch in the right settings again. Try to see if that works.


Same thing. Testing p95 L1/L2 cache no issues, so problem lies in L3. Dropped cache frequency to 3.2, same problem.


----------



## Nizzen

Dell green 4800 Hynix aircooled


----------



## bscool

7empe said:


> Guys, I think I lost my mind. Starting from 6800+ I have following issue (Apex 9902).
> 
> Looking for a cause of an issue, so:
> 
> CPU Stock
> RAM G.SKILL 6400C32 at 1.42V/1.42V running 6800C32-39-39-76. All other timings on Auto.
> Got to Windows and run p95 small FFT AVX disabled. Errors almost immediately on 112K (L3?). No matter what SA (tried 1.1 - 1.4) and MC Voltage (tried 1.2 - 1.4) issue persist.
> Now it's the funny part.
> Got to Windows at SA 1.25 and MC 1.25. Errors in p95 small FFT AVX disabled. Move MC voltage slider in TurboV Core by 3 steps to 1.26875. Test perfectly stable now. Boot to BIOS, enter this value. Back in Windows and same errors again. Moved slider by another 2-3 steps. Perfectly stable. And so on...
> 
> Something wrong with BIOS calculations? Some board training issue?


What if you do the same test with mem at a lower clock like 6400? I had 6666c30 stable on y cruncher and karhu on original MB but it would fail in csgo. Lowering mem to 6400 no issues in CSGO.

In the end to me that means MB. New MB I have no issues running 7000c32.


----------



## 7empe

Ugh, I can't believe it... I followed


bscool said:


> What if you do the same test with mem at a lower clock like 6400? I had 6666c30 stable on y cruncher and karhu on original MB but it would fail in csgo. Lowering mem to 6400 no issues in CSGO.
> 
> In the end to me that means MB. New MB I have no issues running 7000c32.


Works fine up to 6600C30 with stock E-Cores...

And I just found the root cause - E-Cores. At stock they are 3700 MHz under load. I moved them to 3600 MHz and problem disappeared even with 6800C30 (tCWL 28).
CPU is SP88 (P-cores 97, E-cores 72).

I think the road block is behind me.

Btw. I tried everything before, including disabling HT. Obviously disabling HT could not help here...


----------



## db000

CptSpig said:


> I have the same kit 6400 G.Skill. I installed G.Dkill software and set the color. It now works with armory crate. I also have iCUE running for key board and mouse. Everything work fine. You can use only the G.Skill and iCUE without Armory Crate. And control with iCUE.


Good! What I pressed was "LED OFF", top right corner of software then Apply (version 1.00.29).
Lets hope it continues working for you! The SPD died after a few reboots for me. iCUE is installed, Armory crate is not.
First it freezes in Windows, reboot, Temp is gone on one channel (+0c). Boots into Windows, its fine. Temps go grey on one or both DIMMs.
SPD Write Disable = TRUE. (Default), I was worried False was causing the corruption.


----------



## stahlhart

db000 said:


> Good! What I pressed was "LED OFF", top right corner of software then Apply (version 1.00.29).
> Lets hope it continues working for you! The SPD died after a few reboots for me. iCUE is installed, Armory crate is not.
> First it freezes in Windows, reboot, Temp is gone on one channel (+0c). Boots into Windows, its fine. Temps go grey on one or both DIMMs.
> SPD Write Disable = TRUE. (Default), I was worried False was causing the corruption.


If all that you have to deal with is the motherboard and G.Skill RAM, Trident 1.00.29 and Aura 1.07.84 (installed in that order) is all that is necessary, with no need to install Armoury Crate. At least that was how it turned out here.


----------



## SuperMumrik

One final quick test of Dell greens on Apex..
I will "de-lid" my g.skill sticks tomorrow 😎


----------



## snakeeyes111

Can u show tm5 yumusv3 instead of karhu? Karhu is more for Sa Voltage, so tm5 is more intresting for higher settings then karhu or memtest.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Thanks to @bscool for the 9902 bios with ucode 15. 

5.2/4.8 (AVX512) 6400C28 1T daily profile


----------



## johnksss

Here is a run I just did...not sure about stability as of yet, but the base (6600-32-39-39-39-78-2T) for this is stable.


----------



## bigfootnz

AYTOKPATOP said:


> Did anyone tried to OC the Kingston Fury 6000Mhz C40 kit? (KF560C40BBK2-32)


I'm running them 6400C32 on Hero with AIDA ~50ns latency. I think that also @owikh84 has them also and he has managed even better OC then me, probably due to limits of my Hero. There are some other people running them without any problems with 6400+


----------



## bigfootnz

snakeeyes111 said:


> Can u show tm5 yumusv3 instead of karhu? Karhu is more for Sa Voltage, so tm5 is more intresting for higher settings then karhu or memtest.


My experience is opposite. I can pass easily TM5 or memtest but Karhu was much harder, especially when it comes to fine tune/border line stability.


----------



## owikh84

AYTOKPATOP said:


> Did anyone tried to OC the Kingston Fury 6000Mhz C40 kit? (KF560C40BBK2-32)





bigfootnz said:


> I'm running them 6400C32 on Hero with AIDA ~50ns latency. I think that also @owikh84 has them also and he has managed even better OC then me, probably due to limits of my Hero. There are some other people running them without any problems with 6400+


I had the Kingston 6000C40 but it overclocks much worse than my 5600C40 kit. Both are Hynix and early batches, max stable OC 6400 vs 6933 on the same CPU and mobo. I even managed to stabilize the 5600C40 kit at 7000C32 with a new CPU. However, our friends like @satinghostrider @adna @matique seem to have better luck with the 6000C40 kit.


----------



## owikh84

BTW, I just checked with a few retailers in my country regarding the ICs used in the Kingston Fury Beast DDR5:

5200C40, 2201 (year 2022, week 1): Samsung

5600C40, 2202: Hynix
5600C40, 2150: Samsung (2 kits)
5600C40, 2147: Hynix (2 kits)

6000C40, 2201: Hynix
6000C40, 2151: Hynix


----------



## Balaned

I can't squeeze any more out of these Corsair 6200 dimms with my CPU. If anyone has any suggestions for my timings please share because I'm all ears. Would love to bring my latency down more.


----------



## matique

with bclk 1.06 oc










without any bclk oc

i think for the kingstons it depends on luck tbh. I have used 2 sets of kingston 6000c40 hynix and both sets can go to 7000 without issue on my unify itx @AYTOKPATOP


----------



## nickolp1974

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks to @bscool for the 9902 bios with ucode 15.
> 
> 5.2/4.8 (AVX512) 6400C28 1T daily profile
> View attachment 2550417


Nice! cpu SP?


----------



## SoldierRBT

nickolp1974 said:


> Nice! cpu SP?


P-Core SP100. SP91 chip


----------



## SuperMumrik

Initial test of g.skill 6400 [email protected] under water. Didn't include Aida coz of blck
Hopefully 7200 is within reach without dropping timings to much, but it seems like I'm close to IMC limit


----------



## db000

Update: Not a single issue with SPD reporting or anything for more then 24h now. This fourth kit is just numbers away from the third kit I managed to "kill" in half an hour.... Not trying to turn "LED OFF" in G.Skill software is working for me. I'll will have to live with this RGB for now. I'm surprised I've not heard a thing from G.Skill yet.

I like your results @SuperMumrik


----------



## Dinnzy

Just switched its g skill 6400 kits, my new kit runs on xmp without errors!!! The first kit was Newegg 1st release, this one is from micro center, guess it’s time do trying 6800. Where do you recommend one starts? I’m trying to maximize frames in warzone which you all know loves high clock x low latency 

Edit,lmao I take that back. After applying my cpu OC I am getting errors on occt and also a code 53 upon restart. I have replicated the same thing after cmos twice. ***


----------



## mxxmmllm

Dinnzy said:


> Just switched its g skill 6400 kits, my new kit runs on xmp without errors!!! The first kit was Newegg 1st release, this one is from micro center, guess it’s time do trying 6800. Where do you recommend one starts? I’m trying to maximize frames in warzone which you all know loves high clock x low latency
> 
> Edit,lmao I take that back. After applying my cpu OC I am getting errors on occt and also a code 53 upon restart. I have replicated the same thing after cmos twice. ***


You have to do the following steps for cpu oc: put like 1.32V fixed then increase aux voltage 1.9 and set load line calibration 4
After that you only put ram xmp on and leave everything else on stock. Now you start oc your e cores and run Aida64 Full stress test on all /Cinebench ... and check for errors. Mine was 4.1 and 4.2 crashed at 1.32V. Same with P cores at 5.2 its stable and 5.3 crash. If you pass Cinebench and Battlefield 2042 you are stable. 

I have the same Ram and 6800 was no problem even at stock settings (XMP on and 6800 set) worked nearly fine. But i needed some more voltage then it worked.


----------



## 7empe

mxxmmllm said:


> You have to do the following steps for cpu oc: put like 1.32V fixed then increase aux voltage 1.9 and set load line calibration 4
> After that you only put ram xmp on and leave everything else on stock. Now you start oc your e cores and run Aida64 Full stress test on all /Cinebench ... and check for errors. Mine was 4.1 and 4.2 crashed at 1.32V. Same with P cores at 5.2 its stable and 5.3 crash. If you pass Cinebench and Battlefield 2042 you are stable.
> 
> I have the same Ram and 6800 was no problem even at stock settings (XMP on and 6800 set) worked nearly fine. But i needed some more voltage then it worked.


What does cpu aux voltage stabilize? Is it uncore related? AFAIK it delivers voltage for FIVR. Do you mean that by increasing MC/SA voltage it's necessary to increase aux as well?


----------



## db000

New BIOS is out for Asus boards!








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


@BroadPwns I have no idea about bios 1201. There are a few people on this forum running 4000 to 4133c15 on bios 901 with DR b die on the Strix d4. So you never could get bios 901 to work? Last bios I used was 901 as it was the best for DR b die. The people I know still running Strix...




www.overclock.net









safedisk said:


> View attachment 2550553
> 
> 
> 
> *ROG MAXIMUS Z690 Series Beta Bios 1302*
> 
> 01. Improve system compatibility.
> 02. Improve system performance.
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BETA BIOS 1302
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BETA BIOS 1302
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BETA BIOS 1302
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BETA BIOS 1302
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1302


----------



## sblantipodi

guys never tryed to OC hynix chips before, can I use Hynix as I used Samsung?
is it ok to push 1.43V on Hynix and is it ok to use the same voltage for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX?


----------



## CptSpig

sblantipodi said:


> guys never tryed to OC hynix chips before, can I use Hynix as I used Samsung?
> is it ok to push 1.43V on Hynix and is it ok to use the same voltage for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX?


Here are three examples of my memory overclocks with G.Skill 6400 Hynix kit. CPU at 5.5 P-cores and 3.9 E-cores. See HWiNFO64 for voltages 6800 and 7000. See ASRock Timing Confg. for 6600. All overclocks on air cooling.


----------



## db000

sblantipodi said:


> guys never tryed to OC hynix chips before, can I use Hynix as I used Samsung?
> is it ok to push 1.43V on Hynix and is it ok to use the same voltage for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX?


I say its OK. It's hard to say as of yet what is "safe" daily voltage. But 1.435v is in BIOS on Asus not High voltage. 6400CL32 runs 1.4v on XMP.


----------



## sblantipodi

ok thank you guys, can't wait to try my Hynix... hope to be able to push 4.8GHz on 4 sticks at least xD


----------



## db000

sblantipodi said:


> ok thank you guys, can't wait to try my Hynix... hope to be able to push 4.8GHz on 4 sticks at least xD


I've seen quite a few posts with stable 5200 atleast on 4 sticks.


----------



## sugi0lover

[tested the new apex bios 1302 with my daily OC setup atm~]

The bios works great as usual.
TM5 16T Cover Speed is a little short of 2000MB/s while running all those apps at the same time.
I think I need a little bit of bclk oc to reach 2000MB/s
[7200-30-41-41-26-310]

[Update] Some voltage optimization
VDD 1.665v/ VDDQ 1.575v / TX 1.55v / SA 1.05v / MC 1.300v / VPP 1.91v


----------



## centvalny

sugi0lover said:


> [tested the new apex bios 1302 with my daily OC setup atm~]
> 
> The bios works great as usual.
> TM5 16T Cover Speed is a little short of 2000MB/s while running all those apps at the same time.
> I think I need a little bit of bclk oc to reach 2000MB/s
> [7200-30-41-41-26-310]


Awesome settings!


----------



## sugi0lover

*[This is very deep insight from a guy who tested a lot of 12900K (around 84)]*
Edit : To make it clear, I am not the guy who wrote this. I just translated it to English.

*1. Check SP value, P core and E core value*
-. Check the SP value based on the ASUS board and check the P-core and E-core in detail.
-. If it is SP90 or higher, it is possible to stabilize the Cinebench by about 51/41/43 in 360mm water cooling
-. When IHS removed, about 52/41/45 is also possible. (Certainly, the higher the P-core, the lower voltage, higher clock possible.)
-. Based on general SP90, it seems to be between 98 and 100 P core.
-. I saw the E-Core from the 60's to the 84's, but there doesn't seem to be much difference between the 70's and the 80's.
(Based on custom water cooling, if the E-core is stabilized by 43 at the P-core's maximum actual clock clock, it's high-end, and 42 seems to be okay.)
-. There are cases where the SP value is high but the temperature is high. In that case, the specific core temperature is high and the temperature deviation is large.
-. It has become very difficult these days to pick SP90 or higher. I'm wondering if 1 out of 10 will come out.
-. When running LINX, the cache multiplier as well as the core multiplier must be lowered to run well.
-. Based on what I have touched, it was about 40% for SP70, 56% for SP80, 4% for SP90.
-. SP100s was purchased as a biined product other than the initial stage
*2. IMC checklist (based on two memory inserted)*
-. 6400 1T bootable and not bad if Memtest runs
(Among the 7000 2T stabilized CPUs, the 6400 1T can only boot and immediately crash when running Memtest.)
-. It is very good if the 6600 1T can boot and Memtest runs.
(Mostly the 6600 1T was not easy.)
-. Most of the 2T settings were stable up to 6800 clocks, except for the really bad IMC.
-. A CPU with a good IMC will boot very well up to memory clock 7466. (stabilization is separate)
(The 6800 2T clock is also trained immediately upon booting. If training is performed in 2 or 3 times at the 6800 clock, it is related to the IMC quality)
-. From 7600 clocks, it seems to be the realm of the gods.
-. The better the IMC, the better the detailed memory timing is tightened.
Conversely, if it is bad, it is sometimes impossible to boot with the existing stabilization value.
-. SP value and IMC quality should be considered separately. SP100's also had some bad IMCs.
*3. DDR5 memory*
-. Use of Hynix module - Even if the silicon quality is bad, it is 6200 possible.
-. There is not much difference between expensive xmp memory sticks and cheap basic memory sticks. You just have to be lucky to draw.
-. Other than RGB effect for 6200 or less xmp memory, it is best to use the basic memory sticks with a heat sink.
-. Product using Samsung module - RAM timing is a little looser than Hynix, but as long as you bin it well, it's fine.
With 4 sets of xmp ram, only 1 set was capable of 6933 clocks, and 3 sets were not much different from the basic memory sticks.
-. Products using Micron Module - It's just DDR5 not for OC.

Original Link
쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


----------



## truehighroller1

sugi0lover said:


> [tested the new apex bios 1302 with my daily OC setup atm~]
> 
> The bios works great as usual.
> TM5 16T Cover Speed is a little short of 2000MB/s while running all those apps at the same time.
> I think I need a little bit of bclk oc to reach 2000MB/s
> [7200-30-41-41-26-310]


Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.



sugi0lover said:


> [This is very deep insight from a guy who tested a lot of 12900K (around 84)]
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Check SP value, P core and E core value
> 
> -. Check the SP value based on the ASUS board and check the P-core and E-core in detail.
> 
> -. If it is SP90 or higher, it is possible to stabilize the Cinebench by about 51/41/43 in 360mm water cooling
> 
> -. When IHS removed, about 52/41/45 is also possible. (Certainly, the higher the P-core, the lower voltage, higher clock possible.)
> 
> -. Based on general SP90, it seems to be between 98 and 100 P core.
> 
> -. I saw the E-Core from the 60's to the 84's, but there doesn't seem to be much difference between the 70's and the 80's.
> 
> (Based on custom water cooling, if the E-core is stabilized by 43 at the P-core's maximum actual clock clock, it's high-end, and 42 seems to be okay.)
> 
> -. There are cases where the SP value is high but the temperature is high. In that case, the specific core temperature is high and the temperature deviation is large.
> 
> -. It has become very difficult these days to pick SP90 or higher. I'm wondering if 1 out of 10 will come out.
> 
> -. When running LINX, the cache multiplier as well as the core multiplier must be lowered to run well.
> 
> -. Based on what I have touched, it was about 40% for SP70, 56% for SP80, 4% for SP90.
> 
> -. SP100s was purchased as a biined product other than the initial stage
> 
> 2. IMC checklist (based on two memory inserted)
> 
> -. 6400 1T bootable and not bad if Memtest runs
> 
> (Among the 7000 2T stabilized CPUs, the 6400 1T can only boot and immediately crash when running Memtest.)
> 
> -. It is very good if the 6600 1T can boot and Memtest runs.
> 
> (Mostly the 6600 1T was not easy.)
> 
> -. Most of the 2T settings were stable up to 6800 clocks, except for the really bad IMC.
> 
> -. A CPU with a good IMC will boot very well up to memory clock 7466. (stabilization is separate)
> 
> (The 6800 2T clock is also trained immediately upon booting. If training is performed in 2 or 3 times at the 6800 clock, it is related to the IMC quality)
> 
> -. From 7600 clocks, it seems to be the realm of the gods.
> 
> -. The better the IMC, the better the detailed memory timing is tightened.
> 
> Conversely, if it is bad, it is sometimes impossible to boot with the existing stabilization value.
> 
> -. SP value and IMC quality should be considered separately. SP100's also had some bad IMCs.
> 
> 3. DDR5 memory
> 
> -. Use of Hynix module - Even if the silicon quality is bad, it is 6200 possible.
> 
> -. There is not much difference between expensive xmp memory sticks and cheap basic memory sticks. You just have to be lucky to draw.
> 
> -. Other than RGB effect for 6200 or less xmp memory, it is best to use the basic memory sticks with a heat sink.
> 
> -. Product using Samsung module - RAM timing is a little looser than Hynix, but as long as you bin it well, it's fine.
> 
> With 4 sets of xmp ram, only 1 set was capable of 6933 clocks, and 3 sets were not much different from the basic memory sticks.
> 
> -. Products using Micron Module - It's just DDR5 not for OC.
> 
> 
> 
> Original Link
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


----------



## sugi0lover

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


If my results have been so annoying to you, I am sorry about that.
As I get lots of help from other people's result, I thought my result can be some reference and help to some other people.
I work really hard to get those setup stable.
(Anyway, my CPU is SP95 not 105)


----------



## Akadaka

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


Does SP score even matter, I've always thought it was a bit of marketing from Asus how come other boards can't show it?


----------



## YaqY

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


I don't think he posts results to put others down, he is just showing what is capable on good hardware. I don't see why you would be offended if he shares his setups and CMO profiles for the community.


----------



## jollib

What are the known naked Hynix unlocked pmic so I don’t have to worry about warranty issues having to remove the heatsinks for watercooling

I have dell greens unopened as well as a unify-x. still debating on which i should keep. the dells and get an apex or keep the unify-x and spend money on ram. problem is i dont want to break ram by removing the heatspreader. I dont have access to LN2.


----------



## bigfootnz

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


I think that his posts are not for the epeens or to brag here. I find his posts really helpful, he was always willing to share cmo file or all details without hiding anything.
But you have to understand these cpus, memories or motherboards are not just bought by luck of the draw but it is done by binning, which cost thousands and thousands, and on top of that you still have to have knowledge to do what he is doing.


----------



## jollib

Is this air cooled?



matique said:


> View attachment 2550439
> 
> 
> with bclk 1.06 oc
> 
> View attachment 2550440
> 
> 
> without any bclk oc
> 
> i think for the kingstons it depends on luck tbh. I have used 2 sets of kingston 6000c40 hynix and both sets can go to 7000 without issue on my unify itx @AYTOKPATOP


----------



## SuperMumrik

jollib said:


> What are the known naked Hynix unlocked pmic so I don’t have to worry about warranty issues having to remove the heatsinks for watercooling


Dell "greens" 4800c40
Awesome sticks

EDIT: The PMIC is not unlocked perse, but Apex atleast can activate high dram voltage on those sticks


----------



## jollib

i have these but i dont have an apex. i have a unify-x in a box. my dilemna is to keep the dells and go for the apex because the apex can unlock them or go with other sticks that are unlocked. preferably naked. which i cant find. I know PNY makes a set but i dont know if those are locked PMIC.


SuperMumrik said:


> Dell "greens" 4800c40
> Awesome sticks
> 
> EDIT: The PMIC is not unlocked perse, but Apex atleast can activate high dram voltage on those sticks
> View attachment 2550634


----------



## sblantipodi

db000 said:


> I've seen quite a few posts with stable 5200 atleast on 4 sticks.


Unfortunately I bought the Asus Extreme and even if it's one of the most expensive board it has some design flaws that can't permit ram to oc as well as other cheaper boards


----------



## Dangel

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


I’m by no means as experienced overclocker as Sugi but he was always ready to help me, I was inspired by those results (used it exclusively for gaming.) Without dude's like him there would be no progress.


----------



## FedericoUY

SuperMumrik said:


> Dell "greens" 4800c40
> Awesome sticks
> 
> EDIT: The PMIC is not unlocked perse, but Apex atleast can activate high dram voltage on those sticks
> View attachment 2550634


Hello, is that ram test good for ddr4 and z490 platform? Can you point me to get it? 
Those results are insane on the apex...
Thanks!


----------



## SuperMumrik

Yes, it is a very good software that gives a quick indication, but you should use it in combination with HCI memtest or testmem5



RAM Test - Karhu Software


----------



## matique

jollib said:


> Is this air cooled?


yep it is! Though i added a bigger heatspreader (xtia ddr4) and a noctua a9x14 above it for airflow.


----------



## matique

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yours is sp105. There is no better. Everything else I've bought, " multiple purchases " have been 85 tops. The one I have is global 87. Pcores 97 ecores 67. These things are junk.


Don't think one should write in anger; it's easy to regret things. For reference sp doesn't really have to do anything with how high your ram can clock; imc is. My SP84 (92p,68e) has better IMC than my SP102 (111p, 86e). sp84 boots highest 7400, sp102 can't even boot 7200 lol.

Issue with ADL is the kinda bad memory oc support other than 1dpc boards. Even then, Apex had loads of issues, which might even be hardware related. I'm on itx, and both the strix & unify itx perform well though the unify is wayyyyyy easier to get things going. 

DDR5 itself is also iffy. Finding the balance between the voltages is half the battle for me. Timings are easy once you have the voltages figured out. Obviously, for an easy time to hit higher freqs would be to get Hynix, followed by Samsung. Samsung can clock high too but needs ungodly voltage.

With regards to Sugi's posts, it's always nice to see what is possible. I don't think i'll ever reach his speed/timing as i focus on everyday stability (plus he has some magic combo), but I am not salty about it. Initially i referred to alot of user's screenshots etc to figure out the rough timing & voltage parameters, which helped a lot.


----------



## Carillo

Testing my IMC and Apex board with @SuperMumrik 's best G.skill stick( better than mine)  Watercooling

8180 MHZ boot


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> Did you manually align RLT's or did they align through training?


Training


----------



## SoldierRBT

Quick 6600 28-37-37-28 1T test. Been trying to get this to boot consistently but seems like I'm reaching the limit of my IMC or sticks. Kit still on air. 1.65v VDD


----------



## asdkj1740

latest msi z690 beta bios

mortar wifi->b13
tomahawk wifi ->h24
pro a->a24
pro a wifi->a24
torpedo->a24
edge wifi->h31
edge ti wifi->m31
force wifi->125
carbon wifi->125
ace->126
unifyx->a24






Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com





according to force wifi product download page, this latest a25 bios is for:
*Improved ethernet LAN connection issue only when ASPM L1 of PCIe device or CPU C-State settings have been changed manually.*


----------



## dante`afk

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.


why so rude? he's helping everyone else. just enjoy it.


----------



## Carillo

truehighroller1 said:


> Dude you have the best CPU, mb and memory combination ever made this generation... There's no reason to post your results anymore literally. We get it. None of us are ever going to get your results. Ever! We get it! Mines tops 5800 MHz stable man... There are four other people here five tops able to get stable at above 6400. This is so annoying at this point.
> 
> Maby bitterness is the secret sauce needed to improve memory overclocking results ?


----------



## Forsaken1

Send some bitterness my way then😀.


----------



## Nikos4Life

Hi there!

Thanks to the info in the ASUS Z690 thread I have managed to get my kit working (Corsair 6200 CL36) with some voltage tweaking.

Right now this are my timings and voltages:










And this is the current "performance": 











I think I can get more of this kit and in general the CPU. And I am looking for some guidance with DDR5. I do not know voltages rules for this kit, which as far as I know 
uses Hynix IC's.

Also regarding frequency I do not know if should aim for higher values with my MB or just focus into getting those timings as tight as possible for 24/7. 
Kits are actively cooled with a fan until some brand releases waterblocks for it. 

At the same time I notice most of you are ramping up the Cache multiplier but I do not want to change everything at once, which would it be a safe value to try it out?

12900K SP86 (96/68)
ASUS Extreme
Corsair 6200CL36

Voltages: 

SA Voltage: 1.2V
MC Voltage: 1.28V

VDD: 1.320 
VDDQ: 1.320
VDDQ TX: 1.320 
LLC: 4


With Hynix kits how far can I go speaking of voltages? 
Is there any rule between VDD, VDDQ & VDDQ TX?


Thanks in advance!!


----------



## johnksss

Nikos4Life said:


> Hi there!
> 
> Thanks to the info in the ASUS Z690 thread I have managed to get my kit working (Corsair 6200 CL36) with some voltage tweaking.
> 
> Right now this are my timings and voltages:
> 
> View attachment 2550721
> 
> 
> And this is the current "performance":
> 
> View attachment 2550722
> 
> 
> 
> I think I can get more of this kit and in general the CPU. And I am looking for some guidance with DDR5. I do not know voltages rules for this kit, which as far as I know
> uses Hynix IC's.
> 
> Also regarding frequency I do not know if should aim for higher values with my MB or just focus into getting those timings as tight as possible for 24/7.
> Kits are actively cooled with a fan until some brand releases waterblocks for it.
> 
> At the same time I notice most of you are ramping up the Cache multiplier but I do not want to change everything at once, which would it be a safe value to try it out?
> 
> 12900K SP86 (96/68)
> ASUS Extreme
> Corsair 6200CL36
> 
> Voltages:
> 
> SA Voltage: 1.2V
> MC Voltage: 1.28V
> 
> VDD: 1.320
> VDDQ: 1.320
> VDDQ TX: 1.320
> LLC: 4
> 
> 
> With Hynix kits how far can I go speaking of voltages?
> Is there any rule between VDD, VDDQ & VDDQ TX?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


Unless you are extremely lucky! You are not going to get very far in terms of memory over clocking with that board. How do I know this? Because I just sent it back because of this very reason. And It was a nightmare trying to get 6400 XMP to run without errors in the first few seconds to minutes in any memory testing software.
Refer to this picture of my settings to see if you can run it...


https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/6k283535-gskills-6400-running6k-png.2549982/


----------



## stahlhart

Cleared the bar for the first time tonight. Latency/RTLs still won't budge with this set of hardware, but it's still a little victory.

I don't recall being able to keep 6200 stable before, so maybe the 1302 BIOS helped. RAM kit is F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5RK.

Going to try tightening the rest of the primaries a little more -- not CAS, though; 36 is the lowest these will train over 5600.


----------



## munternet

Seems I am a bit late to the party but my Dell green 4800's only just arrived this week after over 2 months wait.
With the Monarch watercooling the sticks are about 2°c above ambient
CPU is SP85
I mostly copied other people's work, thanks folks  and got an easy 6600c32. DDR5 seems a lot easier than DDR4 so far but I'm a long way off the big boys and girls yet


----------



## asdkj1740

The last shall be first - MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X review with teardown, DDR5 and Adaptive OC | Page 4 | igor'sLAB


While with Intel's previous Z590 generation MSI's Unify-X was the last of the motherboards I tested, we turn the tables on this generation with the new Alder Lake CPUs. The MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X…




www.igorslab.de




sick review, probably the most insane ddr5 oc review ever, with solid performance accordingly. 
unlike some review showing 7000mhz with shameless performance like copy and write both under 100gb...


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> The last shall be first - MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X review with teardown, DDR5 and Adaptive OC | Page 4 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> While with Intel's previous Z590 generation MSI's Unify-X was the last of the motherboards I tested, we turn the tables on this generation with the new Alder Lake CPUs. The MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sick review, probably the most insane ddr5 oc review ever, with solid performance accordingly.
> unlike some review showing 7000mhz with shameless performance like copy and write both under 100gb...


Msi 6800 1T performance is like Apex 6400 2T


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> The last shall be first - MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X review with teardown, DDR5 and Adaptive OC | Page 4 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> While with Intel's previous Z590 generation MSI's Unify-X was the last of the motherboards I tested, we turn the tables on this generation with the new Alder Lake CPUs. The MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sick review, probably the most insane ddr5 oc review ever, with solid performance accordingly.
> unlike some review showing 7000mhz with shameless performance like copy and write both under 100gb...


see the author.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Msi 6800 1T performance is like Apex 6400 2T


should be the real 1T vs fake 1T


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> see the author.


i knew that.


----------



## sblantipodi

is it safe to use 1.35V on SK Hynix?


----------



## asdkj1740

sblantipodi said:


> is it safe to use 1.35V on SK Hynix?


seriously? you mean vpp?


----------



## Nikos4Life

johnksss said:


> Unless you are extremely lucky! You are not going to get very far in terms of memory over clocking with that board. How do I know this? Because I just sent it back because of this very reason. And It was a nightmare trying to get 6400 XMP to run without errors in the first few seconds to minutes in any memory testing software.
> Refer to this picture of my settings to see if you can run it...
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/6k283535-gskills-6400-running6k-png.2549982/



Thanks buddy! 
One question, the tool Turbo V Core does not display mem voltages, anything I need to change in the BIOS to allow this?

Thanks


----------



## nickolp1974

sblantipodi said:


> is it safe to use 1.35V on SK Hynix?


C'mon man, you post nearly everyday about your extreme etc. Do you not read other posts??!
To answer your question yes it's perfectly safe. I run 1.55v daily and everything is fine


----------



## nmkr

short memtest against an 12600k SP 77 (E84/P63) with 24C water and fan attached to mems

7000c30 / 1.59 vdd / 1.55 vddq / 1.55 TXIVR / 1.4MC / 1.2 SA / 1.85 VPP


----------



## Nizzen

nmkr said:


> short memtest against an 12600k SP 77 (E84/P63) with 24C water and fan attached to mems
> 
> 7000c30 / 1.59 vdd / 1.55 vddq / 1.55 TXIVR / 1.4MC / 1.2 SA / 1.85 VPP
> 
> View attachment 2550763


IS this G.skill ES dimms?


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> IS this G.skill ES dimms?


clearly


----------



## LionS7

Guys, some help here pleace, because this is madness with the 24/7 stability of DDR5.
I have i9-12900K. Its fine, using it 5100/4100/4100 1.21 to 1.25 for AVX.
MAG Z690 TORPEDO (I have tried bios A01, A10 and the beta one A22)
The memory - Kingston FURY Beast Black 32GB(2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800 5600MHz CL40 KF556C40BBK2-32 Samsung chips

So, the problem is that this memory can be stable in Memory Test Pro on 6400 36-36-36-55-2-435 for 100-150%, 1.34V DRAM, VDD2, VDDQ 1.40, SA 1.25. (1000%+ tried for 6200 CL40, stable in memory test pro).
That's ok for know, but after that in games or under windows conditions the memory is very unstable and every time I tried some new combination of timings, voltages or frequency, the crashes starting to become instant (on every frequency - 6000-6200-6400 with timings from CL36 to CL40, no difference) in AIDA64 stress test, until I default the bios and load the Win with it.

So, I will take any advice from people with close to my components or some with more practice with DDR5 OC for 24/7.

Is there some specific combination of timings, frequency, voltages that Im not considering ? Something wrong or a bug with my combination of components ?


----------



## truehighroller1

LionS7 said:


> Guys, some help here pleace, because this is madness with the 24/7 stability of DDR5.
> I have i9-12900K. Its fine, using it 5100/4100/4100 1.21 to 1.25 for AVX.
> MAG Z690 TORPEDO (I have tried bios A01, A10 and the beta one A22)
> The memory - Kingston FURY Beast Black 32GB(2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800 5600MHz CL40 KF556C40BBK2-32 Samsung chips
> 
> So, the problem is that this memory can be stable in Memory Test Pro on 6400 36-36-36-55-2-435 for 100-150%, 1.34V DRAM, VDD2, VDDQ 1.40, SA 1.25. (1000%+ tried for 6200 CL40, stable in memory test pro).
> That's ok for know, but after that in games or under windows conditions the memory is very unstable and every time I tried some new combination of timings, voltages or frequency, the crashes starting to become instant (on every frequency - 6000-6200-6400 with timings from CL36 to CL40, no difference) in AIDA64 stress test, until I default the bios and load the Win with it.
> 
> So, I will take any advice from people with close to my components or some with more practice with DDR5 OC for 24/7.
> 
> Is there some specific combination of timings, frequency, voltages that Im not considering ? Something wrong or a bug with my combination of components ?


It's our fault for having no knowledge according to what I've read on this forum lately lol. Same issues I'm seeing as well down to the tee.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Trying to break the 15k barrier for gb3 memory speed, but that seems impossible 😅


----------



## LionS7

truehighroller1 said:


> It's our fault for having no knowledge according to what I've read on this forum lately lol. Same issues I'm seeing as well down to the tee.


You are using the TORPEDO too ? It will be soothing for me to know, that its not me the problem, because Im trying to resolve it for about a week.

I will try A24 bios later. I hope that something will change. Thank you for the replay !


----------



## truehighroller1

LionS7 said:


> You are using the TORPEDO too ? It will be soothing for me to know, that its not me the problem, because Im trying to resolve it for about a week.
> 
> I will try A24 bios later. I hope that something will change. Thank you for the replay !


No, I have the apex but I feel like some of these issues just come down to poor quality control at the motherboard level no matter the manufacturer.


----------



## asdkj1740

LionS7 said:


> Guys, some help here pleace, because this is madness with the 24/7 stability of DDR5.
> I have i9-12900K. Its fine, using it 5100/4100/4100 1.21 to 1.25 for AVX.
> MAG Z690 TORPEDO (I have tried bios A01, A10 and the beta one A22)
> The memory - Kingston FURY Beast Black 32GB(2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800 5600MHz CL40 KF556C40BBK2-32 Samsung chips
> 
> So, the problem is that this memory can be stable in Memory Test Pro on 6400 36-36-36-55-2-435 for 100-150%, 1.34V DRAM, VDD2, VDDQ 1.40, SA 1.25. (1000%+ tried for 6200 CL40, stable in memory test pro).
> That's ok for know, but after that in games or under windows conditions the memory is very unstable and every time I tried some new combination of timings, voltages or frequency, the crashes starting to become instant (on every frequency - 6000-6200-6400 with timings from CL36 to CL40, no difference) in AIDA64 stress test, until I default the bios and load the Win with it.
> 
> So, I will take any advice from people with close to my components or some with more practice with DDR5 OC for 24/7.
> 
> Is there some specific combination of timings, frequency, voltages that Im not considering ? Something wrong or a bug with my combination of components ?


get a hynix kit.
judging from your 36-36-36, yours should be Samsung kit right?
100% hci/memtestpro means nothing unless the frequency and sub timings are super high and tight.


----------



## ObviousCough

Which has better latency potential at 6000? Samsung vs Hynix.


----------



## LionS7

asdkj1740 said:


> get a hynix kit.
> judging from your 36-36-36, yours should be Samsung kit right?
> 100% hci/memtestpro means nothing unless the frequency and sub timings are super high and tight.


Yes, it's Samsung. I know that the memtest its not 100% sure, but I did 1000% on 6200 CL40-40-40-80 and then crash in games and Windows. Anyway, I will try some new timings and voltages soon, or I just wait for some new bios from MSI, cos we have only beta ones after the 6th of dec 2021.


----------



## jollib

is this normal for msi boards and this tool running 4.0.13. i swapped the dimms they read both on channelA0 properly but channelA1 doesnt read anything. I think i saw this before in this thread


----------



## LionS7

jollib said:


> is this normal for msi boards and this tool running 4.0.13. i swapped the dimms they read both on channelA0 properly but channelA1 doesnt read anything. I think i saw this before in this thread
> View attachment 2550802


Better to use MSI Dragon Ball


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> No, I have the apex but I feel like some of these issues just come down to poor quality control at the motherboard level no matter the manufacturer.


I have two Apex boards a X299 and the Z690. The Apex is design to be a overclocking MB not a gaming board running XMP profiles. For me these have been the best boards I have owned. Hard to beat the ASUS Bios IMHO. Tuning memory is hard and it takes a lot of patience one setting at a time then checking for errors.


----------



## db000

jollib said:


> is this normal for msi boards and this tool running 4.0.13. i swapped the dimms they read both on channelA0 properly but channelA1 doesnt read anything. I think i saw this before in this thread
> View attachment 2550802


Does it read A1 properly at JEDEC speed? (4800) w/o XMP or OC. That can be caused by an unstable OC.


----------



## asdkj1740

LionS7 said:


> Yes, it's Samsung. I know that the memtest its not 100% sure, but I did 1000% on 6200 CL40-40-40-80 and then crash in games and Windows. Anyway, I will try some new timings and voltages soon, or I just wait for some new bios from MSI, cos we have only beta ones after the 6th of dec 2021.


Welcome to our family!
which msi mobo is that?


----------



## asdkj1740

jollib said:


> is this normal for msi boards and this tool running 4.0.13. i swapped the dimms they read both on channelA0 properly but channelA1 doesnt read anything. I think i saw this before in this thread
> View attachment 2550802


as long as you can check all the voltages by hwinfo64, the pmic should be fine.


----------



## jollib

when it does read it reads properly just doest recognize the info for the second dimm. Ive tried it when running an oc or auto and it reads the same. and the fact that it only has 2 dimm slots like all these apex owners are showing . 


db000 said:


> Does it read A1 properly at JEDEC speed? (4800) w/o XMP or OC. That can be caused by an unstable OC.


----------



## db000

jollib said:


> when it does read it reads properly just doest recognize the info for the second dimm. Ive tried it when running an oc or auto and it reads the same. and the fact that it only has 2 dimm slots like all these apex owners are showing .


That's odd, I've only had this issue on the Apex when unstable or launching multiple apps reading the SPD at the same time, like CPU-Z, HWinfo and ATC. But a relaunch allways fixes it.
Strange issue you have.


----------



## bscool

LionS7 said:


> Guys, some help here pleace, because this is madness with the 24/7 stability of DDR5.
> I have i9-12900K. Its fine, using it 5100/4100/4100 1.21 to 1.25 for AVX.
> MAG Z690 TORPEDO (I have tried bios A01, A10 and the beta one A22)
> The memory - Kingston FURY Beast Black 32GB(2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800 5600MHz CL40 KF556C40BBK2-32 Samsung chips
> 
> So, the problem is that this memory can be stable in Memory Test Pro on 6400 36-36-36-55-2-435 for 100-150%, 1.34V DRAM, VDD2, VDDQ 1.40, SA 1.25. (1000%+ tried for 6200 CL40, stable in memory test pro).
> That's ok for know, but after that in games or under windows conditions the memory is very unstable and every time I tried some new combination of timings, voltages or frequency, the crashes starting to become instant (on every frequency - 6000-6200-6400 with timings from CL36 to CL40, no difference) in AIDA64 stress test, until I default the bios and load the Win with it.
> 
> So, I will take any advice from people with close to my components or some with more practice with DDR5 OC for 24/7.
> 
> Is there some specific combination of timings, frequency, voltages that Im not considering ? Something wrong or a bug with my combination of components ?


Have you tried running y cruncher? BenchMate

Simple and quick way to test mem and cpu oc. If it fails y cruncher I wont even bother with memesting.

Not that passing y crucnher means it is game or other applications stable just another tool to use that I like.

On older Apex I could pass 6666c30 on y cruncher and metest but crashed in csgo. Loweing mem to 6400 everything worked. New MB can run 7000c32 with same mem and cpu.

So a lot of variables can cause crashes. Could be cpu oc also. You have to test and rule things out. But give y cruncher a try as a quick way to test mem/cpu stability.

Edit on z690 Strix d4 I could pass various memtest and y cruncher but crashed in csgo. Needed more vcore and that fixed it.

Quick way to find out if it is mem oc reduce by 200-400mhz and if no more crashes mem related. If still crashes more likely cpu oc/voltage related.


----------



## stahlhart

LionS7 said:


> Yes, it's Samsung. I know that the memtest its not 100% sure, but I did 1000% on 6200 CL40-40-40-80 and then crash in games and Windows. Anyway, I will try some new timings and voltages soon, or I just wait for some new bios from MSI, cos we have only beta ones after the 6th of dec 2021.


Karhu with cache enabled, y-cruncher 2.5b and Cinebench R23 multicore throttling (10m).


----------



## inedenimadam

Hey guys, since switching from the Apex to the Unify-X, I have had significantly better luck with the dual sided Hynix kit from Dell. I meant to post earlier as there was some discussion about the double sided sticks, but real life (work) has been quite demanding. 

Anyway, this is what I have come up with utilizing my limited knowledge and limited free time. If you guys see anything that looks out of whack, I am more than open to any pointers on the sub timings. I am sure that my methodology isn't the most efficient. This is [email protected] stable...which is quite a long test on 64Gb btw.

Also, these sticks seem to be completely devoid of any XMP profile, so run default 4000, and can only be voltage controlled to 1.435. If anyone knows a way to get more voltage, I would be grateful if you shared.


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Trying to break the 15k barrier for gb3 memory speed, but that seems impossible 😅
> View attachment 2550790


Refer to my setup~ This will get you over 15K.

7330-30-40-40-26-310
Water Temp : 21C (hwinfo ran after GB3)















ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-12900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com


----------



## stahlhart

One question before I delve back into this, remembering an earlier post from @sugi0lover -- my G.Skill sticks (Samsung) are rated at 1.2V; is there a "safe" upper limit for voltage and/or temperature?

I've been keeping this conservative given that I am only on ambient cooling for memory... I've managed to get 6000 stable with 1.275V VDD and VDDQ, and 1.25V for the PMICs. There are ranges stated in the motherboard's BIOS descriptions, but I was checking to see if real world experience here aligns with that. I am not averse to some outboard fan cooling for memory if I can still keep temperatures stable at the required voltage.

I was able to get an Aida reading at 6200, the one I posted yesterday, but R23 crashed before it could complete one pass, so I'm nowhere near stable with it yet (thank God I didn't start off with y-cruncher). @sugi0lover stated that Samsung needed more voltage than Hynix; if I'm not able to keep temps under control with air cooling, I might have to stay at 6000 for daily driver; temps are 38-42C at idle here.


----------



## asdkj1740

surprisingly jay who often got criticized by the community is the first big techtuber to expose the massive stability problem of ddr5.


----------



## nickolp1974

inedenimadam said:


> Hey guys, since switching from the Apex to the Unify-X, I have had significantly better luck with the dual sided Hynix kit from Dell. I meant to post earlier as there was some discussion about the double sided sticks, but real life (work) has been quite demanding.
> 
> Anyway, this is what I have come up with utilizing my limited knowledge and limited free time. If you guys see anything that looks out of whack, I am more than open to any pointers on the sub timings. I am sure that my methodology isn't the most efficient. This is [email protected] stable...which is quite a long test on 64Gb btw.
> 
> Also, these sticks seem to be completely devoid of any XMP profile, so run default 4000, and can only be voltage controlled to 1.435. If anyone knows a way to get more voltage, I would be grateful if you shared.
> View attachment 2550831


you need Apex for that.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> Refer to my setup~ This will get you over 15K.


Will give it a go, but I'm fairly certain that I need a stronger chip(imc) 😌


----------



## affxct

My Trident Z5 6000C36's died somehow; I think the PMIC might've allowed voltage spikes because HWiNFO was reporting 1.8V maximums on VDD a couple of hours before that particular DIMM died, and no I didn't use anywhere close to that amount in testing before anyone asks. I sent them in for a refund and grabbed a set of Lancer 6000C40s. I knew there was a risk of them being Samsung but I kinda wanted to avoid G.SKILL. In my testing, these have been awful. Been trying to land the same or similar OCs I did at 1.35-1.4V on my previous kit and these aren't even close. It might be that I don't understand how to set TXVDDQ, VDD2, and SA on my new Taichi because this thing is also mega weird. It wants to default TXVDDQ and VDD2 to 1.35 each when XMP is enabled and it leaves SA at 0.925 and somehow 6000C40 is actually stable. I honestly do not understand anymore. This platform is a headache. Really wish I had kept my old board and old kit, but the old board was obstructing the mounting of my new RAM cooler and my old kit decided to commit not-alive. What I can say is the Lancer kit has far better PMIC voltage regulation when compared to my previous kit. I have one Anpec and one Richteck on my new kit. Kinda odd, but they seem to be doing a good job of not shoving 1.8V into my ICs.


----------



## nmkr

sugi0lover said:


> Refer to my setup~ This will get you over 15K.
> 
> 7330-30-40-40-26-310
> Water Temp : 21C (hwinfo ran after GB3)


insane result for a daily setup, can i ask wich heatspreader/cooler you run?


----------



## sugi0lover

nmkr said:


> insane result for a daily setup, can i ask wich heatspreader/cooler you run?


The temp is daily and gb3 stable, but not tm5/hci stable. Anyway, I use aqua cuplex kryos for cpu, Ek ram block and Mora-420 Pro for radiator.


----------



## db000

stahlhart said:


> One question before I delve back into this, remembering an earlier post from @sugi0lover -- my G.Skill sticks (Samsung) are rated at 1.2V; is there a "safe" upper limit for voltage and/or temperature?
> 
> I've been keeping this conservative given that I am only on ambient cooling for memory... I've managed to get 6000 stable with 1.275V VDD and VDDQ, and 1.25V for the PMICs. There are ranges stated in the motherboard's BIOS descriptions, but I was checking to see if real world experience here aligns with that. I am not averse to some outboard fan cooling for memory if I can still keep temperatures stable at the required voltage.
> 
> I was able to get an Aida reading at 6200, the one I posted yesterday, but R23 crashed before it could complete one pass, so I'm nowhere near stable with it yet (thank God I didn't start off with y-cruncher). @sugi0lover stated that Samsung needed more voltage than Hynix; if I'm not able to keep temps under control with air cooling, I might have to stay at 6000 for daily driver; temps are 38-42C at idle here.


This was posted here before, refer to this for guidelines of voltage/freq. Above 1.435 is seen as High voltage in Asus bios. You can operate the memory at high temps, but you will have looser timings to compensate. Putting a simple 120mm fan helps more then you think.


----------



## CptSpig

db000 said:


> This was posted here before, refer to this for guidelines of voltage/freq. Above 1.435 is seen as High voltage in Asus bios. You can operate the memory at high temps, but you will have looser timings to compensate. Putting a simple 120mm fan helps more then you think.


Yes is does!


----------



## db000

My current settings on air. 5.0GHz P-cores - 4.0 Cache - E-cores disabled. Not great.. Not terrible!
@CptSpig We both on 53.3ns 

6600-30-40-40-30-360-2T
VDD: 1.53v
VDDQ: 1.50v
SA: 1.25v
MC: 1.33v

Stable with BUT requires High fan speeds to keep em below 50c... can't wait to get my copper heatspreaders back on and waterblock. For maybe 6800 or something more...
Atleast my SPDs aint crapping out, not a single issue with modules since I stopped trying to turn "LED OFF". Found the issue, still waiting for G.Skill to confirm this with me...


----------



## CptSpig

db000 said:


> My current settings on air. 5.0GHz P-cores - 4.0 Cache - E-cores disabled. Not great.. Not terrible!
> @CptSpig We both on 53.3ns
> 
> 6600-30-40-40-30-360-2T
> VDD: 1.53v
> VDDQ: 1.50v
> SA: 1.25v
> MC: 1.33v
> 
> Stable with BUT requires High fan speeds to keep em below 50c... can't wait to get my copper heatspreaders back on and waterblock. For maybe 6800 or something more...
> Atleast my SPDs aint crapping out, not a single issue with modules since I stopped trying to turn "LED OFF". Found the issue, still waiting for G.Skill to confirm this with me...


Nice Job!


----------



## LionS7

asdkj1740 said:


> Welcome to our family!
> which msi mobo is that?


Thank you ! 
Its the MAG Z690 TORPEDO. Still need to check the new A24 bios.



bscool said:


> Have you tried running y cruncher? BenchMate
> 
> Simple and quick way to test mem and cpu oc. If it fails y cruncher I wont even bother with memesting.
> 
> Not that passing y crucnher means it is game or other applications stable just another tool to use that I like.
> 
> On older Apex I could pass 6666c30 on y cruncher and metest but crashed in csgo. Loweing mem to 6400 everything worked. New MB can run 7000c32 with same mem and cpu.
> 
> So a lot of variables can cause crashes. Could be cpu oc also. You have to test and rule things out. But give y cruncher a try as a quick way to test mem/cpu stability.
> 
> Edit on z690 Strix d4 I could pass various memtest and y cruncher but crashed in csgo. Needed more vcore and that fixed it.
> 
> Quick way to find out if it is mem oc reduce by 200-400mhz and if no more crashes mem related. If still crashes more likely cpu oc/voltage related.


thx and yes - I will test these stuff and the memory alone with stock CPU.


----------



## stahlhart

Just noticed this tonight -- is there any reason for concern?

I have a second (identical) set of sticks; going to try them for comparison.


----------



## opt33

stahlhart said:


> Just noticed this tonight -- is there any reason for concern?
> 
> I have a second (identical) set of sticks; going to try them for comparison.


That is normal. When hwinfo tries to read and cant, it returns default/stock value or bugged values, that happens just running hwinfo by itself. If run cpuz while hwinfo is reading, will often bug/grey temp sensors then sometimes stop reading temps (set zeror) until restart hwinfo. All 6 kits I had do same thing.


----------



## inedenimadam

nickolp1974 said:


> you need Apex for that.


I have two Apex boards, both are absolute junk for DRAM overclocking. Weak Dimm 0 on both.


----------



## truehighroller1

inedenimadam said:


> I have two Apex boards, both are absolute junk for DRAM overclocking. Weak Dimm 0 on both.



Shhhhhhhhhhh...... It's your fault and mine.


----------



## affxct

Not super proud of/happy with the result, but it is what it is. I had to change out boards because my new RAM cooler couldn't be properly fit on the Strix Z690-F, and I picked up the Taichi because it seemed like it had a good feature set, and it came in at around $500 (below MSRP) vs every other high-end board that's marked up by 40-50% on average in our market. The Z5's I initially had were a pretty awesome kit and could boot 6800. They booted 6400 on the ASRock and were almost stable. Unfortunately one of the sticks randomly died and I had to refund it. I decided to gamble on Adata Lancer's and was hoping I'd strike a kit with Hynix and Richtek. Unfortunately, they were Samsung with mixed PMICs. After a lot of struggling this is what I ended up with.

6000 30-35-35-65-2T (basic tightened S16B secondaries)
DRAM VDD/Q: 1.41V
CPU VDDQ: 1.41V
CPU VDD2: 1.35V
VCCSA: 0.975V
VCCIN_AUX: 1.85V

One thing to note is I can now do 5.0P/4.0E/4.0R @ 1.31V set with around 1.26V under load, which is a solid 40mV better than my previous board (something at least).
$500 board, $450 RAM - meh


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Checking things out with E- cores disabled. Also de-lidded my cpu with rockit tool and used their copper IHS. Dopped temps 10'C.


----------



## Nizzen

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Checking things out with E- cores disabled. Also de-lidded my cpu with rockit tool and used their copper IHS. Dopped temps 10'C.
> 
> View attachment 2550990


Nice! This is what we're calling overclocking! 5600mhz to 6800 tight 
Keep up the good work


----------



## affxct

affxct said:


> Not super proud of/happy with the result, but it is what it is. I had to change out boards because my new RAM cooler couldn't be properly fit on the Strix Z690-F, and I picked up the Taichi because it seemed like it had a good feature set, and it came in at around $500 (below MSRP) vs every other high-end board that's marked up by 40-50% on average in our market. The Z5's I initially had were a pretty awesome kit and could boot 6800. They booted 6400 on the ASRock and were almost stable. Unfortunately one of the sticks randomly died and I had to refund it. I decided to gamble on Adata Lancer's and was hoping I'd strike a kit with Hynix and Richtek. Unfortunately, they were Samsung with mixed PMICs. After a lot of struggling this is what I ended up with.
> 
> 6000 30-35-35-65-2T (basic tightened S16B secondaries)
> DRAM VDD/Q: 1.41V
> CPU VDDQ: 1.41V
> CPU VDD2: 1.35V
> VCCSA: 0.975V
> VCCIN_AUX: 1.85V
> 
> One thing to note is I can now do 5.0P/4.0E/4.0R @ 1.31V set with around 1.26V under load, which is a solid 40mV better than my previous board (something at least).
> $500 board, $450 RAM - meh
> 
> View attachment 2550988
> View attachment 2550989


*Side note:*
I’ve seen 6600C28 stable on the Taichi, and my old Strix Z690-F couldn’t train 6000C30 or 6200C30 on my old S16B kit. That older 6000C36 1.3V was definitely a far superior bin that than this 6000C40 1.35V though. There’s actually a very real difference in their capabilities. I guess to end off, the Taichi is a decent enough board that won’t get you much higher than 6600Mbps or 1T, and the Adata (Samsung) 6000C40 1.35V kits are awful. These DIMMs don’t even have sequential serial numbers, so I’m wondering if the kit is even properly matched. The fact the PMICs are mixed is also very very weird. I’ve yet to see anything this.


----------



## leonman44

Finally i could drop below 65ns but still i want to drop bellow 60ns. These kits definitely dont gain a lot , also they get easily unstable when they reach 60-65c. I kinda regret buying gskill kits my previous gskill ddr4 kits were also very bad overclockers. 
Also more voltage is not better , 1.35v is the upper limit for me as 1.4v+ will make them hot quicker and just fail quicker.

Any idea what to lower next that will give me any noticeable performance gain?


----------



## sblantipodi

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550998
> 
> 
> Finally i could drop below 65ns but still i want to drop bellow 60ns. These kits definitely dont gain a lot , also they get easily unstable when they reach 60-65c. I kinda regret buying gskill kits my previous gskill ddr4 kits were also very bad overclockers.
> Also more voltage is not better , 1.35v is the upper limit for me as 1.4v+ will make them hot quicker and just fail quicker.
> 
> Any idea what to lower next that will give me any noticeable performance gain?


Why don't you consider Corsair kit? they have the best thermal heatsink imho with pads on PMIC.


----------



## warbucks

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Checking things out with E- cores disabled. Also de-lidded my cpu with rockit tool and used their copper IHS. Dopped temps 10'C.
> 
> View attachment 2550990


Nice. I delided and threw on the copper IHS from Rockitcool as well. The drop in temps is very much welcomed.


----------



## leonman44

sblantipodi said:


> Why don't you consider Corsair kit? they have the best thermal heatsink imho with pads on PMIC.


I actually preordered these and back then there was no 6000mhz kits from Corsair , also I wanted them to be compatible with aura sync. 

But in the end it seems that I will have to watercool them… 

I have some thick thermal pads somewhere I was using them for my 980ti xtreme , if I open the dimms and put some on the pmics will I lose warranty?


----------



## CptSpig

inedenimadam said:


> I have two Apex boards, both are absolute junk for DRAM overclocking. Weak Dimm 0 on both.


Odd? I wonder why so many people are having great success overclocking memory on the Apex. I was able to get 7000 stable for 24/7 without issues on my Apex. Using air hard to believe on such a weak board. Imagine that.....


----------



## stahlhart

.


----------



## affxct

I dunno if it’s a bit frowned upon to ask someone else, but to anyone who’s owned the Adata LANCER RGB kit, do they have thermal pads on the other components on the PCB besides the ICs? Or are they bad like the G.Skill kits? I kinda really don’t want to take my sticks apart 😬.


----------



## affxct

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550998
> 
> 
> Finally i could drop below 65ns but still i want to drop bellow 60ns. These kits definitely dont gain a lot , also they get easily unstable when they reach 60-65c. I kinda regret buying gskill kits my previous gskill ddr4 kits were also very bad overclockers.
> Also more voltage is not better , 1.35v is the upper limit for me as 1.4v+ will make them hot quicker and just fail quicker.
> 
> Any idea what to lower next that will give me any noticeable performance gain?


tCKE - 6
tRTP - 12
tWR - 24
tRRDS S/L - 4/6
tFAW - 16
tRFC - 450 for 6200Mbps
tRAS - increase to tRCD+tRTP+2 at least, and increase further for stability 

You could probably do 6200 36-36-36 @ 1.3V (mine could), but it is kit-dependent. I think for your board leave TXVDDQ and IMC VDD at Auto and try 1.2V SA.


----------



## Nizzen

CptSpig said:


> Odd? I wonder why so many people are having great success overclocking memory on the Apex. I was able to get 7000 stable for 24/7 without issues on my Apex. Using air hard to believe on such a weak board. Imagine that.....


And Carillo is running 7500mhz tight on Apex. Looks like Apex sux LOL
I'm running 7000c30 on some Green Dell now on Apex. So bad 😅


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Does anybody have a link to the Google Drive folder with the latest MSI Z690i Unify bios?


----------



## truehighroller1

Nizzen said:


> And Carillo is running 7500mhz tight on Apex. Looks like Apex sux LOL
> I'm running 7000c30 on some Green Dell now on Apex. So bad 😅


You two are the best at overclocking! Gods even. 😂



inedenimadam said:


> I have two Apex boards, both are absolute junk for DRAM overclocking. Weak Dimm 0 on both.


No worries man, you're not the only one having issues with quality on these mother boards. I'm going to swap mine out for another one.

I think there's six people bashing us total so far here. That says a lot.


----------



## martin28bln

geriatricpollywog said:


> Does anybody have a link to the Google Drive folder with the latest MSI Z690i Unify bios?


Beta/MP - Google Drive


----------



## bscool

CptSpig said:


> Odd? I wonder why so many people are having great success overclocking memory on the Apex. I was able to get 7000 stable for 24/7 without issues on my Apex. Using air hard to believe on such a weak board. Imagine that.....


Did you buy just 1 board retail or bin MB or sent one from Asus? If bought one board definitetly luck. If sent one by Asus and posting this then misleading. I see many posting big # that were sent MB but they never mention that.

I was sent a MB from Asus and that is how I can run 7000c32. I bet few bought 1 retail Apex and are able to run 7000 Karhu stable.


----------



## db000

bscool said:


> Did you buy just 1 board retail or bin MB or sent one from Asus? If bought one board definitetly luck. If sent one by Asus and posting this then misleading. I see many posting big # that were sent MB but they never mention that.
> 
> I was sent a MB from Asus and that is how I can run 7000c32. I bet few bought 1 retail Apex and are able to run 7000 Karhu stable.


Do you have a date printed on box?
My Apex doesn't have a print with date. I bought it around first days of new years, so its for sure from 2021.

Edit: I've yet to test max freq on single DIMM slots, should probably do that....


----------



## bscool

db000 said:


> Do you have a date printed on box?
> My Apex doesn't have a print with date. I bought it around first days of new years, so its for sure from 2021.
> 
> Edit: I've yet to test max freq on single DIMM slots, should probably do that....


My first Apex has no date that I can see anywhere. The 2nd MB has 2022 date on box. If there is a date on MB I didnt see it.









IMG_20220226_130045301.jpg


JPG Image



1drv.ms


----------



## db000

bscool said:


> My first Apex has no date that I can see anywhere. The 2nd MB has 2022 date on box. If there is a date on MB I didnt see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20220226_130045301.jpg
> 
> 
> JPG Image
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


Interesting, your Part.nr ends with AY1. I've another Apex backordered at my dealer, let's see if that one has AY1 too, once it arrives. Curious to compare, if it would make any difference at all.
Maybe in time for the 12900KS.. 🤞


----------



## bscool

db000 said:


> Interesting, your Part.nr ends with AY1. I've another Apex backordered at my dealer, let's see if that one has AY1 too, once it arrives. Curious to compare, if it would make any difference at all.
> Maybe in time for the 12900KS.. 🤞


Here is another from someone I know. D18-A0650-D940-4-ADA-8869-07642094654-D

He also has old Apex and same with limit at 6400 on slot 1/chA.

New MB 7000 Karhu stable on both dim slots for him also.

Strangely for both of us getting 1t stable on new MB is not happening. But I dont care I will take 7000 2t over 6400 1t on old MB.

I have not tried a bunch bioses to get 1t working but the little I tried 1t on the new MB is not happening. Booting 6600 1t is next to impossible.

Both of us could run 6400c28 to 6400c30 1t easy on old MB.


----------



## satinghostrider

db000 said:


> Do you have a date printed on box?
> My Apex doesn't have a print with date. I bought it around first days of new years, so its for sure from 2021.
> 
> Edit: I've yet to test max freq on single DIMM slots, should probably do that....


My new board has manufacturing date printed and it shows 01/2022. My older one did not have that print.
And my new board could go past 6000Mhz with stability something the older Apex board of mine struggled with. Tried 3 kits to confirm this. Currently 6800C32 stable with multiple instances of TM5 and Karhu done. 

New board has the same revision as the old board fyi.


----------



## Arni90

12900K SP84 / "CPU Force 2" 114

Here's another example of the Z690 Unify-X performing better than the Z690 Apex. Voltage scaling is *a lot* more consistent.

The same CPU and memory kit couldn't run y-cruncher higher than 3300 MHz memory clock on the Z690 Apex, and even booting CL28 hardwalled at 3200 MHz memory clock.










Also worthy of note, the POST code display can actually display CPU temperature, and the BIOS layout of MSI is far superior to ASUS.
And as @skullbringer noted in his review on Igor's Lab, the "remote control" is brilliant.


----------



## truehighroller1

No wayyyyyyy¡!!!!! All these people same story!!!!????!


What??????! 🤣 Clowns posting on here acting as if nothing's wrong..... Attacking people laughing at them..... Just wow.


----------



## matique

CptSpig said:


> Odd? I wonder why so many people are having great success overclocking memory on the Apex. I was able to get 7000 stable for 24/7 without issues on my Apex. Using air hard to believe on such a weak board. Imagine that.....


Pretty sure all apex that does stable 7000 and up are either ES samples, or latest ones sent directly via Asus to a select few. Very rare to have a retail apex that does 7000. Gotta make that clear. A bit misleading to say apex is fine when most retail units are not fine.


----------



## bscool

matique said:


> Pretty sure all apex that does stable 7000 and up are either ES samples, or latest ones sent directly via Asus to a select few. Very rare to have a retail apex that does 7000. Gotta make that clear. A bit misleading to say apex is fine when most retail units are not fine.


People are scared of not getting another freebie is my guess. I dont care if I get something for free or not. Im not going to go around being deceptive so i can get something free and post deceptive/misleading info.


----------



## truehighroller1

matique said:


> Pretty sure all apex that does stable 7000 and up are either ES samples, or latest ones sent directly via Asus to a select few. Very rare to have a retail apex that does 7000. Gotta make that clear. A bit misleading to say apex is fine when most retail units are not fine.


Hellariously quiet around here all of a sudden..... Wonder why that is?



bscool said:


> People are scared of not getting another freebie is my guess. I dont care if I get something for free or not. Im not going to go around being deceptive so i can get something free and post deceptive/misleading info.


Why did they send you one?


----------



## bscool

truehighroller1 said:


> Hellariously quiet around here all of a sudden..... Wonder why that is?
> 
> 
> 
> Why did they send you one?


Good question, I dont know why. Maybe they saw I posted about having issues running stable past 6400 or that i posted a lot of feedback on Strix d4. No idea really.

I was just contacted asking if I wanted to try a new batch.


----------



## leonman44

Why am I unable to make my cpu stable at Ycruncher after ocing my ram ? 

I can’t even pass all tests at least one time 5ghz/3,8ghz at 1.45V llc4. At 1.4V I get freezing and bsods.

Also my predictions are at higher clock speeds and even less voltage.


----------



## inedenimadam

CptSpig said:


> Odd? I wonder why so many people are having great success overclocking memory on the Apex. I was able to get 7000 stable for 24/7 without issues on my Apex. Using air hard to believe on such a weak board. Imagine that.....


I cant say for sure why I have had so much trouble with dram on the Apex boards. I can speculate, but it would only be that. I ended up with two of them because of the DDR5 shortage and Newegg bundles. Which was fine with me, because I was really stoked about the board. I love the bios layout, and how well it overclocked the P+E cores. But no matter what I do, if Dimm0 is populated, either solo or with an accompanied matching stick, I cant so much as run XMP. Dimm1 is fine. Both of the boards exhibit the exact same behavior, and both do it with different dram kits.

The unify-x has definitely been an adjustment, as I have almost exclusively overclocked on asus boards going back over a decade , so the bios layout and nomenclature are taking some getting used to. And there is weirdness around VRM switching frequency and the low load compensation settings on the Unify-X. But the DRAM overclocking is solid. i am a full 1000mhz higher stable on the unify-x with the 2x32Gb hynix kit than I was on either Apex. 6400 C28 on dual sided sticks makes me happy, even if it isn't on the board I wanted to run.


----------



## truehighroller1

bscool said:


> Good question, I dont know why. Maybe they saw I posted about having issues running stable past 6400 or that i posted a lot of feedback on Strix d4. No idea really.
> 
> I was just contacted asking if I wanted to try a new batch.



I have so, much respect for you. Thank you for being honest. Bad thing is I probably just bought another dud 😂.

I know I have a good imc based on my experience with the WiFi d4. I can get 6200 1t so close to stable on this board after playing with it all day today and yesterday. I can get 105% in tm5 before I get a single error. I found the spot where it likes the voltages which wasn't easy to accomplish. I spent about 20 hours testing total if not more. It won't even post with the wrong cas setting.

Honesty is very important to customers. Thank you again, seriously.


----------



## CptSpig

matique said:


> Pretty sure all apex that does stable 7000 and up are either ES samples, or latest ones sent directly via Asus to a select few. Very rare to have a retail apex that does 7000. Gotta make that clear. A bit misleading to say apex is fine when most retail units are not fine.


No, mine is one of the first boards 2021 and my CPU is P-cores SP-92 and E-cpres SP-69. Both items purchased from the EGG. No ES items here!


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> And Carillo is running 7500mhz tight on Apex. Looks like Apex sux LOL
> I'm running 7000c30 on some Green Dell now on Apex. So bad 😅


yall say its a good board, but dont yall also have a rev 2022 now?

obviously there's something wrong with the first charge of boards sold, but asus will not comment right @shamino1978


----------



## shamino1978

dante`afk said:


> yall say its a good board, but dont yall also have a rev 2022 now?
> 
> obviously there's something wrong with the first charge of boards sold, but asus will not comment right @shamino1978


no comments, i did the best i could to help.


----------



## truehighroller1

shamino1978 said:


> no comments, i did the best i could to help.



You did a good job man. I have always said all this time, I appreciate everything you do. Not that my word means anything but, I'll say it again. Thank you. 

I think some of the people bashing people need to humble themselves and perhaps have more respect for people having issues. 

Quit pointing and laughing if you will.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone here know how to fix bent cpu socket or know someone do it? My apex has 2 or 3 bent pin and cant post.


----------



## Carillo

I have been able to run 7000mhz on 4 different Apex retail boards with my cpu... But only 2 memory kits could do it.. All boards produced in 2021


----------



## geriatricpollywog

My G.Skill 6400cl32 can only do 6400cl32. Performance in games is worse than DDR4 4200cl14. I’m returning all my DDR5 stuff and going back to DDR4.


----------



## Carillo

I think Asus should consider shipping the z790 series with a tampon bundle


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> Pretty sure all apex that does stable 7000 and up are either ES samples, or latest ones sent directly via Asus to a select few. Very rare to have a retail apex that does 7000. Gotta make that clear. A bit misleading to say apex is fine when most retail units are not fine.


6000u3636e: hold my beer.


----------



## bscool

Carillo said:


> I think Asus should consider shipping the z790 series with a tampon bundle


As many Apex as you buy you were will you keep them all 🤣


----------



## Carillo

bscool said:


> As many Apex as you buy you were will you keep them all 🤣


In Norway you can test as many motherboard as you want and return them for free. The stores even pay the return shipping cost.


----------



## skullbringer

Arni90 said:


> 12900K SP84 / "CPU Force 2" 114
> 
> Here's another example of the Z690 Unify-X performing better than the Z690 Apex. Voltage scaling is *a lot* more consistent.
> 
> The same CPU and memory kit couldn't run y-cruncher higher than 3300 MHz memory clock on the Z690 Apex, and even booting CL28 hardwalled at 3200 MHz memory clock.
> 
> View attachment 2551041
> 
> 
> Also worthy of note, the POST code display can actually display CPU temperature, and the BIOS layout of MSI is far superior to ASUS.
> And as @skullbringer noted in his review on Igor's Lab, the "remote control" is brilliant.


Btw Apex can also show CPU package temp on postcode, but you have to change the setting from default "postcode only" to "auto" for it to do it.

Asus probably set the default to not show temperatures, because people like j2c can't distinguish between memory training code sequences and cpu temperature numbers....


----------



## nickolp1974

Carillo said:


> In Norway you can test as many motherboard as you want and return them for free. The stores even pay the return shipping cost.


Is that why they cost us all £500 GBP + now???


----------



## opt33

Carillo said:


> I think Asus should consider shipping the z790 series with a tampon bundle


At least bundle the free ones, then maybe I can consider buying Asus again when I dont have to listen to annoying cheerleading comments.


----------



## SoldierRBT

I have two 2021 Apex. Both can do 6400C28 1T stable and bench 6600C28 1T. For 2T, one can boot and run AIDA64 6800C30 and the other 7000C30 (consistently). For 2T stability, both are limited to 6666. Same RAM/CPU. 

Anyone with 2022 Apex. Does 1T work fine? Thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

Does anyone that upgraded to DDR5 have a CL14 4000 DDR4 2x16GB Royal Elite kit for sale? PM me, please. I have a buy ad open too, but my guy backed out of selling his.

I can do $600 USD including shipping for a kit.


----------



## 7empe

Apex production date 11/2021 does 6666C30 consistently stable with E-Cores enabled. However it took me a lot of time to understand how to reach this stability.
First of all - voltages. It can be a matter of 10 mV set too high or too low that can break the stability or boot-to-boot consistency. Example:

VDD 1.47 - the easiest voltage to find stable or at least a bottom value for stability
VDDQ 1.42 - a gap of 50 mV lower from VDD is a miracle sweet spot, not only for 6666
VDDqTx 1.455 - too low/high gives errors that can be easily mistaken with IMC stability considered as "bad quality"
VCCSA 1.30 - it's very tricky; too high can mess with training significantly; it is easier to know that's too low (obvious instabilities) than too high;
IMC 1.30625 - an auto rule seems to be 1:1 with VCCSA and there needs to be some true relationship between those two. Micro fine tunning of 1-2 steps lower/higher than VCCSA gives the best stability.

One more note worth to mention here. It is very easy to get into some bad loop of mis-training. Some suggested to clear CMOS and do PSU power cycle. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. What works for me best is... disable E-Cores -> POST -> re-enable E-Cores -> continue on your OC. Not sure if the opposite approach is usefull for P-Cores only scenario - worth trying though.

This is what works for me, so I'm sharing my discoveries here, but it does not mean that this approach can work for others even with the same mobo and sticks.


----------



## affxct

geriatricpollywog said:


> My G.Skill 6400cl32 can only do 6400cl32. Performance in games is worse than DDR4 4200cl14. I’m returning all my DDR5 stuff and going back to DDR4.


4200C14 is kinda god tier. You’d probably beat it at 6600C30 or something of the sort. Maybe 6600C30 1T would crap on it.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Apex production date 11/2021 does 6666C30 consistently stable with E-Cores enabled. However it took me a lot of time to understand how to reach this stability.
> First of all - voltages. It can be a matter of 10 mV set too high or too low that can break the stability or boot-to-boot consistency. Example:
> 
> VDD 1.47 - the easiest voltage to find stable or at least a bottom value for stability
> VDDQ 1.42 - a gap of 50 mV lower from VDD is a miracle sweet spot, not only for 6666
> VDDqTx 1.455 - too low/high gives errors that can be easily mistaken with IMC stability considered as "bad quality"
> VCCSA 1.30 - it's very tricky; too high can mess with training significantly; it is easier to know that's too low (obvious instabilities) than too high;
> IMC 1.30625 - an auto rule seems to be 1:1 with VCCSA and there needs to be some true relationship between those two. Micro fine tunning of 1-2 steps lower/higher than VCCSA gives the best stability.
> 
> One more note worth to mention here. It is very easy to get into some bad loop of mis-training. Some suggested to clear CMOS and do PSU power cycle. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. What works for me best is... disable E-Cores -> POST -> re-enable E-Cores -> continue on your OC. Not sure if the opposite approach is usefull for P-Cores only scenario - worth trying though.
> 
> This is what works for me, so I'm sharing my discoveries here, but it does not mean that this approach can work for others even with the same mobo and sticks.
> 
> View attachment 2551153


You find that disabling E-cores significantly impacts your memory OCs? Kinda curious. If that’s the case then I might make the switch.


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> In Norway you can test as many motherboard as you want and return them for free. The stores even pay the return shipping cost.


Say no more


----------



## leonman44

Guys do you use the monarch’s by themselves , is it enough or you also use the water cooling block ?


----------



## snakeeyes111

With Fan u stay below 40°C


----------



## truehighroller1

@bscool 

Just tested my frequency difference between the two memory slots. I set 1.43 vdd vddq and imc to 1.25 and left everything else stock. 

I can reach 6800 but not stable as it locked up in the bios on slot 0, and 7200 slot 1 and it would not boot 7400. A difference of 400mhz.


----------



## snakeeyes111

My New apex boot 7200 and 7400. But 7200 freeze before i can reach bios. So its more 7000 and 7400. Also a gap of 400 but i can run ~7470 gb3.
Samsung ics tm5/Karhu 7000 stable
Hynix i will do later. Need to sell my Samsung before.


----------



## truehighroller1

snakeeyes111 said:


> My New apex boot 7200 and 7400. But 7200 freeze before i can reach bios. So its more 7000 and 7400. Also a gap of 400 but i can run ~7470 gb3.
> Samsung ics tm5/Karhu 7000 stable
> Hynix i will do later. Need to sell my Samsung before.


Right so really, mines a difference of 600.


----------



## leonman44

snakeeyes111 said:


> With Fan u stay below 40°C


I don’t think I can fit a nice fan cooling kit there :











Its either monarchs stock or with waterblock but if stock heatsink without fans gives me 65-66c under load then it shouldnt drop at least 10c?


----------



## LionS7

Guys, where I can watching for beta bios from MSI ? Im seeing them here and there, but no official thread.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> You find that disabling E-cores significantly impacts your memory OCs? Kinda curious. If that’s the case then I might make the switch.


You got it wrong. I said that when you have a situation when even previously stable profile can't be stabilized and cmos clear does not help - disable E-cores, perform the POST and then re-enable E-cores.

Personally, I did not notice any difference in memory stabilization with or without the E-Cores, even in terms of SA/IMC voltages.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

affxct said:


> 4200C14 is kinda god tier. You’d probably beat it at 6600C30 or something of the sort. Maybe 6600C30 1T would crap on it.


I think 7200cl30 would match it in gaming fps.

I only started overclocking the DDR5 yesterday. @owikh84 sent me some bios profiles to try since we have the same MSI Z690i Unify motherboard and Hynix ram.


----------



## borant

leonman44 said:


> I don’t think I can fit a nice fan cooling kit there :
> 
> 
> Its either monarchs stock or with waterblock but if stock heatsink without fans gives me 65-66c under load then it shouldnt drop at least 10c?


Just be aware that Monarch heatsink does not cover DDR5 ICs completely - the bottom 20% of chips are exposed.
I use below DDR5 copper heatsinks from Poland, without water block it may give you few degrees comparing to stock but since you already have custom loop then waterblock is the way.









Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com


----------



## Nizzen

leonman44 said:


> Guys do you use the monarch’s by themselves , is it enough or you also use the water cooling block ?


Supercool Computer dimm blocks. Flow over dimm IC. Watertemp 26c and full load = 27.3c with 1.65v 😎


----------



## db000

I've been in the search of a 2DIMM waterblock to match my copper heatsinks. Emailed EKWB twice about it and they wont produce any more of the Acetal(black)+Copper 2DIMM blocks. So after reaching out to Bartlomeij (from Bartxstore) about possibly of making one, I've received some CAD drawings for a block. Not sure I can share any of the CAD drawing yet, but it looks really good. I can keep you updated once I know more.









_Old picture_


Also did some extremely minor tweaks on the 6600-30-40-40-30-360-2T since last post, without touching voltages or messing up stability. 4.0 -> 4.7 on cache.









I can boot 6800c30 but not passing TM5 w/o Errors, 7000c32 booted only once... after that only trouble. I might get 6800 2T working  .... or 6600 1T, since it is booting after all, so will work on that I think.


----------



## matique

geriatricpollywog said:


> My G.Skill 6400cl32 can only do 6400cl32. Performance in games is worse than DDR4 4200cl14. I’m returning all my DDR5 stuff and going back to DDR4.


You're on a unify itx right? Have you tried pushing 1.5v vdimm for 6800c30?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

matique said:


> You're on a unify itx right? Have you tried pushing 1.5v vdimm for 6800c30?


No, I thought you couldn’t go past 1.4v on Hynix DDR5.


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> No, I thought you couldn’t go past 1.4v on Hynix DDR5.


I have been running 1.55 to 1.6v since i got mine. I think most are running 1.5+ to run high clocks. I think Unify can get by with less voltage than Apex from what i have seen.

I just have a 120mm fan on mine and even running Karhu stays under 48c and during gaming in the 35-40c range.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> I have been running 1.55 to 1.6v since i got mine. I think most are running 1.5+ to run high clocks. I think Unify can get by with less voltage than Apex from what i have seen.
> 
> I just have a 120mm fan on mine and even running Karhu stays under 48c and during gaming in the 33-35c range.


Oh, I didn’t know that. I thought people were breaking dimms at over 1.4v. Maybe I wasn’t running enough voltage. Nobody seems to say what voltage they are running when they post AIDA screenshots, or at least I can’t tell from looking at the HWInfo64 screenshot.


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> Oh, I didn’t know that. I thought people were breaking dimms at over 1.4v. Maybe I wasn’t running enough voltage. Nobody seems to say what voltage they are running when they post AIDA screenshots, or at least I can’t tell from looking at the HWInfo64 screenshot.


As far as I know people that had dims die where from turning off RGB and it killing them or randomly dying were Gskill. Atleast from what i have seen. I know a few guys running 1.5+ and so far no issues.

It is a learning curve with ddr5 more voltages to mess with. Here @matique shows his voltages in Hwinfo vdd and vddq are the main ones. Not sure about MSI so cant really help.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Are there generally accepted safe temperature and vdimm maximums for daily OC on Hynix sticks? Mine are cooled with a dedicated fan in a well ventilated case. Thx. Generally under 50c is ideal




www.overclock.net


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> As far as I know people that had dims die where from turning off RGB and it killing them or randomly dying were Gskill. Atleast from what i have seen. I know a few guys running 1.5+ and so far no issues.
> 
> It is a learning curve with ddr5 more voltages to mess with. Here @matique shows his voltages in Hwinfo vdd and vddq are the main ones. Not sure about MSI so cant really help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Are there generally accepted safe temperature and vdimm maximums for daily OC on Hynix sticks? Mine are cooled with a dedicated fan in a well ventilated case. Thx. Generally under 50c is ideal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Which of those voltages is vdimm?

If I can do 6600cl32 on 1.4v, I’m hopeful for good results on 1.55v.


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> Which of those voltages is vdimm?
> 
> If I can do 6600cl32 on 1.4v, I’m hopeful for good results on 1.55v.


I am not sure since MSI. I think vddq2. Not sure though hopefully someone who knows MSI will comment and I am noob to ddr5. So I am lost myself


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> I am not sure since MSI. I think vddq2. Not sure though hopefully someone who knows MSI will comment and I am noob to ddr5. So I am lost myself


Yeah I wish MSI would post here more often and give away free motherboards like Asus does. I might have to go back to my Strix D4.


----------



## Tenshi123

Hi, still reading about DDR5 overclocking. Quick question: Does "4 x 32-bit" in channel means it's running in dual channel? Refer to screenshot


----------



## warbucks

dante`afk said:


> yall say its a good board, but dont yall also have a rev 2022 now?
> 
> obviously there's something wrong with the first charge of boards sold, but asus will not comment right @shamino1978


I bought two APEX boards. First one was on release in Nov 2021, I can't get past 6400Mhz on it. Second board two weeks ago, doesn't have a manufacture date on it so I assume 2021. The second board is worse than the first. I picked up a Unify-X and I'm sitting at 6800Mhz CL32 stable with the same CPU(SP84) and RAM kit (G.skill 6400CL32) and still pushing/testing. Just adding my experience to this thread.


----------



## opt33

geriatricpollywog said:


> Which of those voltages is vdimm?
> 
> If I can do 6600cl32 on 1.4v, I’m hopeful for good results on 1.55v.


msi bios "dram voltage" is vdd in hwinfo.
msi bios "dram vddq" is vddq in hwinfo.
msi "cpu vdd2' is same as asus mem controller voltage
msi "cpu vddq" like asus vddq tx


----------



## geriatricpollywog

opt33 said:


> msi bios "dram voltage" is vdd in hwinfo.
> msi bios "dram vddq" is vddq in hwinfo.
> msi "cpu vdd2' is same as asus mem controller voltage
> msi "cpu vddq" like asus vddq tx


Thank you so much for this!


----------



## matique

geriatricpollywog said:


> Which of those voltages is vdimm?
> 
> If I can do 6600cl32 on 1.4v, I’m hopeful for good results on 1.55v.


I'm running daily 6800c30 now. 
1.45 cpu vddq 
1.5 vdd/vddq 
1.15 SA 
1.3 vdd2


----------



## munternet

I have a friend asking if 2x16GB 6000c40 ram should boot XMP on a Z690 Hero with 12700kf ?


----------



## Carillo

geriatricpollywog said:


> No, I thought you couldn’t go past 1.4v on Hynix DDR5.


I been running 1,68VDD for weeks


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> Thank you so much for this!


Dont give up yet man. You have a good IMC I think you can get 6800 to 7000+ stable. Keep going!!!! 

I think the question will be if the memory can do it. If you run into a wall bin each dim to find if you have a weak stick.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> Dont give up yet man. You have a good IMC I think you can get 6800 to 7000+ stable. Keep going!!!!
> 
> I think the question will be if the memory can do it. If you run into a wall bin each dim to find if you have a weak stick.


@owikh84 sent me some profiles for 6800cl32, 6933cl30, and 7000cl30. All 3 boot but all 3 cause instant errors in TM5. Raising tRFC and lowering tREFI did not help. I need to figure out how to stabilize.


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> @owikh84 sent me some profiles for 6800cl32, 6933cl30, and 7000cl30. All 3 boot but all 3 cause instant errors in TM5. Raising tRFC and lowering tREFI did not help. I need to figure out how to stabilize.


I know on my gskill 6400 kit past 6400 I cannot run as tight of timings as others. I didnt bin each stick to see if I have 1 weaker dim. But a friend also has the gskills 6400 and 1 of his sticks is only stable to 6400 and the other will do 7000 Karhu stable. So it could be the sticks if you cant figure anything else out.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> I know on my gskill 6400 kit past 6400 I cannot run as tight of timings as others. I didnt bin each stick to see if I have 1 weaker dim. But a friend also has the gskills 6400 and 1 of his sticks is only stable to 6400 and the other will do 7000 Karhu stable. So it could be the sticks if you cant figure anything else out.


I can exchange for a new pair of sticks at Microcenter, but at 6800CL32, SoTR is still 15-20fps lower compared to DDR4 at 5.3 ghz. I would need to hit something like 7400cl30 to match DDR4.


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> I can exchange for a new pair of sticks at Microcenter, but at 6800CL32, SoTR is still 15-20fps lower compared to DDR4 at 5.3 ghz. I would need to hit something like 7400cl30 to match DDR4.


How about other benches like 3d mark benches? I know before you had some top scores with your ddr4 is better or worse with ddr5?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> How about other benches like 3d mark benches? I know before you had some top scores with your ddr4 is better or worse with ddr5?


Firestrike is 2000 points higher on DDR4 with the same CPU, same GPU, and same ambient temperature.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 (3dmark.com) 

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z690I UNIFY (MS-7D29) (3dmark.com) 

Maybe disabling the iGPU would help? I've never seen this before.


----------



## Carillo

bscool said:


> How about other benches like 3d mark benches? I know before you had some top scores with your ddr4 is better or worse with ddr5?


Yeah , i think people focus to much on they’re SOTR results. The average FPS and frame times I see in battlefield and warzone with DDR5, I had no chance reaching with ddr4. For me DDR5 is a huge improvement over 4266 cl14 ddr4


----------



## SuperMumrik

Carillo said:


> Yeah , i think people focus to much on they’re SOTR results. The average FPS and frame times I see in battlefield and warzone with DDR5, I had no chance reaching with ddr4. For me DDR5 is a huge improvement over 4266 cl14 ddr4


Yeah, this is my assessment to, but I have not collected any data on it.. 
Open/large world titles seems to scale better with d5 and e-sport titles seems to somewhat equal between well tuned d4 and d5


----------



## bigfootnz

munternet said:


> I have a friend asking if 2x16GB 6000c40 ram should boot XMP on a Z690 Hero with 12700kf ?


I would not have high hope with XMP, 12700kf and Hero. With DDR5 it is not only timming but also combination of all Voltages (Vdd, Vddq, SA, MC). In my opinion combination of voltages is more important than timings. Can he try manually to OC memory?


----------



## bigfootnz

geriatricpollywog said:


> @owikh84 sent me some profiles for 6800cl32, 6933cl30, and 7000cl30. All 3 boot but all 3 cause instant errors in TM5. Raising tRFC and lowering tREFI did not help. I need to figure out how to stabilize.


With DDR5 you cannot use other poeple profiles like with DDR4. As with DDR5 not only timings are important but also combination of all voltages (Vdd, Vddq, SA, MC). In my opinion voltage combination is maybe even more important than timings. Every MB, RAM and CPU is different and unique. OC DDR5 is much harder then DDR4 but on other hand it is more rewarding when you managed to achive stable OC. I also think that you should not give up on DDR5, just give it another shot.


----------



## 7empe

6800C30 now with 8C+8c setup.
Same approach as before, same tight timings still.

VDD 1.54
VDDQ 1.49
TX 1.555
SA 1.30
MC 1.318
Karhu with FPU stress enabled.

From the timing perspective, the only change I had to do if compared to 6666C30 is:

tRFC 320 -> 340 (per bank left the same at 280).


----------



## sblantipodi

Hi all, 
I'm pretty sure that Armoury Crate + Corsair iCue creates the "hang on boot" problem on my Asu Extreme board.

How to reproduce.

Run cinebench 10 times for 30 minutes, soon or later the RAM RGB stops working, PC continue to be stable.
Reboot the PC, it hangs on detect memory and I need to safe boot.

This happens only if I disable SPD Write protection.
If I enable SPD Write protection the issue does not occur.

It's strange that I'm the only one experiencing this problem.

PS: I have Corsair Dominator SK Hinyx, and after a week of intense test, I can't find any instability with these kits.
(Ram Test, TM5, memtest 86, OCCT, programming / code compiling)


----------



## db000

7empe said:


> 6800C30 now with 8C+8c setup.
> Same approach as before, same tight timings still.
> 
> VDD 1.54
> VDDQ 1.49
> TX 1.555
> SA 1.30
> MC 1.318
> Karhu with FPU stress enabled.
> 
> From the timing perspective, the only change I had to do if compared to 6666C30 is:
> 
> tRFC 320 -> 340 (per bank left the same at 280).
> 
> View attachment 2551280
> 
> View attachment 2551281


Lovely work!


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> 6800C30 now with 8C+8c setup.
> Same approach as before, same tight timings still.
> 
> VDD 1.54
> VDDQ 1.49
> TX 1.555
> SA 1.30
> MC 1.318
> Karhu with FPU stress enabled.
> 
> From the timing perspective, the only change I had to do if compared to 6666C30 is:
> 
> tRFC 320 -> 340 (per bank left the same at 280).
> 
> View attachment 2551280
> 
> View attachment 2551281



I notice that your rtls for the second channel do what mine do sometimes in that screen shot. You have a difference of 6 instead of 5 but only on that second slot.


----------



## affxct

geriatricpollywog said:


> I think 7200cl30 would match it in gaming fps.
> 
> I only started overclocking the DDR5 yesterday. @owikh84 sent me some bios profiles to try since we have the same MSI Z690i Unify motherboard and Hynix ram.


Ahh I don't know if you'd have to go that crazy to match it. 7200C30 daily is pretty much not doable for 99% of D5 platform owners though. I don't even think 99% is an over-exaggeration.


----------



## affxct

munternet said:


> I have a friend asking if 2x16GB 6000c40 ram should boot XMP on a Z690 Hero with 12700kf ?


Easy peasy


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> Ahh I don't know if you'd have to go that crazy to match it. 7200C30 daily is pretty much not doable for 99% of D5 platform owners though. I don't even think 99% is an over-exaggeration.


He's pretty good at what he does. Might be barking up the wrong tree bub. I was chasing his tail on the leader boards by the way, he beat me performance wise. He might, know what he's talking about.


----------



## opt33

LionS7 said:


> Guys, where I can watching for beta bios from MSI ? Im seeing them here and there, but no official thread.


The links I use to look for beta bios, msi forum beta bios :





MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com





main site has some beta bios, just enter your mobo in search





MSI USA


Welcome to the MSI USA website. MSI designs and creates Mainboard, AIO, Graphics card, Notebook, Netbook, Tablet PC, Consumer electronics, Communication, Barebone, Server, industrial computing, Multimedia, Clean Machine and Car Infotainment.




us.msi.com





There is also google drive links floating in this thread.

As an aside, just for those who never used msi board, msi does real 1N. MSI has multiple options for command rate:
"1N" set for command rate in bios = follow intel code, set N1 mode ratio 3 in register, this is what is referred to as fake 1N.
"Real 1N" set for command rate set in bios = direct set 1N mode in register. These options have been this way forever.

In testing multiple benchmarks, tm5 runs, games, aida, had passmark earlier, you get about 2/3 effect with fake 1N (ratio 3 in register) and another 1/3 increase with real 1N. However, no one can look at anyones post and tell if 1N vs real 1N as difference is overwhelmed by what background tasks were active, mobo software installed, etc. Only way to know if compare on same system. I can run either without issue.


----------



## MC_SULY_514

not sure if ppl remember but i had asus BSOD non stop with gskill. gskill sent me a new kit and i sold it and ASUS send me a brand new replacement board for my APEX. That's why i usually buy asus products, amazing customer service. So now i have 2 boards lel.
If anyone needs an ASUS APEX z690 board hmu, selling it on ebay for like $550 canadian with mostly all the stuff it came with.

on another note

been running msi unify x 1month+ with corsair 6200mhz = NO BSOD, i feel safe now. MY ptsd is gone haha.


----------



## truehighroller1

MC_SULY_514 said:


> not sure if ppl remember but i had asus BSOD non stop with gskill. gskill sent me a new kit and i sold it and ASUS send me a brand new replacement board for my APEX. That's why i usually buy asus products, amazing customer service. So now i have 2 boards lel.
> If anyone needs an ASUS APEX z690 board hmu, selling it on ebay for like $550 canadian with mostly all the stuff it came with.
> 
> on another note
> 
> been running msi unify x 1month+ with corsair 6200mhz = NO BSOD, i feel safe now. MY ptsd is gone haha.


Funny! They're trying to get me to send them mine back so they can fix it which just failed memtest86 bios built in slot one and passed slot 2. I told them I refuse to take my desktop down for two to three weeks with no other option to keep it up and running for said time and escalated it up the chain for this very reason. I want another replacement for free. I have wasted 3 weeks on this thing and a ton of money and I'm trying to build my daughter a pc and can't because I'm still messing with this one trying to get it stable.

Let's see how they treat me, another faithful customer for the past probably 20 years now, or more.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> He's pretty good at what he does. Might be barking up the wrong tree bub. I was chasing his tail on the leader boards by the way, he beat me performance wise. He might, know what he's talking about.


4200C14 is damn quick, but I’m not sure if D5 is slow to the point to which you’d need to do 7200C30. In a lot of gaming workload situations, slow D5 XMP’s (5600C36, 6000C36) have matched or beaten decently fast D5 (3600C14) XMPs. That and in a lot of GTs on 3DMark, D5 does pretty well even at modest configurations.

I’m not saying he’s not knowledgeable with regards to D5. I just think that it would be difficult to test and make a statement as bleak as that. If that really is the case then most people might as well get rid of their D5 platforms right now because they’re not daily’ing 7200C30.

To put into perspective what I’m saying, FrameChasers’ 12900K with DR 4000C14 pretty much matched or very slightly beat Micron D5 at like 5400 or some ****. It was horrifically slow compared to what most of us here daily and it wasn’t really losing to 4000C14 by any margin you’d notice.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> 4200C14 is damn quick, but I’m not sure if D5 is slow to the point to which you’d need to do 7200C30. In a lot of gaming workload situations, slow D5 XMP’s (5600C36, 6000C36) have matched or beaten decently fast D5 (3600C14) XMPs. That and in a lot of GTs on 3DMark, D5 does pretty well even at modest configurations.
> 
> I’m not saying he’s not knowledge with regards to D5. I just think that it would be difficult to test and make a statement as bleak as that. If that really is the case then most people might as well get rid of their D5 platforms right now because they’re not daily’ing 7200C30.


He's posted results and test that can't be denied. Replicable test man. Trust the science type replicable stuff.


----------



## munternet

bigfootnz said:


> I would not have high hope with XMP, 12700kf and Hero. With DDR5 it is not only timming but also combination of all Voltages (Vdd, Vddq, SA, MC). In my opinion combination of voltages is more important than timings. Can he try manually to OC memory?


He sells PCs so he's trying to help out a customer. Doesn't sound like he's keen to overclock or tinker. Maybe he'd be better off with a 2 dimm board?
Thanks for the reply


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> He's posted results and test that can't be denied. Replicable test man. Trust the science type replicable stuff.


The same can be said for FrameChasers' testing. Jufes has always done a relatively good job. Like his 5400Mbps config wasn't really losing. How am I supposed to believe that something like 6600C30 CR1 wouldn't be enough to compete with fast D4 in DR? It's just a tough one. I'm not trying to argue, but I have a reason for my perspective.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> The same can be said for FrameChasers' testing. Jufes has always done a relatively good job. Like his 5400Mbps config wasn't really losing. How am I supposed to believe that something like 6600C30 CR1 wouldn't be enough to compete with fast D4 in DR? It's just a tough one. I'm not trying to argue, but I have a reason for my perspective.


Because the results don't lie? Replicable test... It has been this way for 30 years now. Replicable test don't lie man? I went to college for this stuff man. Been playing with electronics since the age of 7. I'm 43.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> Because the results don't lie? Replicable test... It has been this way for 30 years now. Replicable test don't lie man? I went to college for this stuff man. Been playing with electronics since the age of 7. I'm 43.


Give me a second.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> Give me a second.


I just gave you rep. I'm not trying to be a douche. Don't take me wrong please. I'm by far not dumb to this stuff. I've built electronic data collection systems by hand, box and all.


----------



## affxct

@truehighroller1
(8) DDR5 VS DDR4 MAX OVERCLOCK GAMING BENCHMARKS 🖱🎮🖱🎮 - YouTube

DDR5-5650C36 (crap tRCD/tRP because M16A chips) CR2 vs D4-4000C14 (idk he probs uses 15-15) CR2

Like idk... I was daily'ing 6400 36-36-36 pretty easily on my last kit and that's a fair bit faster than 5650C36 with Micron tRCD and tRP. These numbers suggest that had he had a somewhat okay config like 6400 36-36-36, the D4 would've been matched at the very least, if not slightly overtaken (suggested by his results). I'm not saying FrameChasers is more trustworthy, I'm just saying that these results exist and suggest a different conclusion, that is all. In a world where 7200C30 is required to match 4200C14, 5650 36-44-44 should've gotten absolutely body'd by 4000C14 DR. In the video he said he had the D4 at 60GB/s Read on AIDA with 43ns access latency. He claimed the D5 was at 100GB/s Read and 58ns, but he CLEARLY used BCLK so his AIDA numbers that he thought his slow D5 was achieving mean jack s**t. Think more like 66-70ns with a boat load of tRCDRD and tRP latency for 5650 36-44-44.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> @truehighroller1
> (8) DDR5 VS DDR4 MAX OVERCLOCK GAMING BENCHMARKS 🖱🎮🖱🎮 - YouTube
> 
> DDR5-5650C36 (crap tRCD/tRP because M16A chips) CR2 vs D4-4000C14 (idk he probs uses 15-15) CR2
> 
> Like idk... I was daily'ing 6400 36-36-36 pretty easily on my last kit and that's a fair bit faster than 5650C36 with Micron tRCD and tRP. These numbers suggest that had he had a somewhat okay config like 6400 36-36-36, the D4 would've been matched at the very least, if not slightly overtaken (suggested by his results). I'm not saying FrameChasers is more trustworthy, I'm just saying that these results exist and suggest a different conclusion, that is all. In a world where 7200C30 is required to match 4200C14, 5650 36-44-44 should've gotten absolutely body'd by 4000C14 DR.


Show him your timings, voltages settings etc. let him run them and see what happens perhaps? Dude has an amazing IMC. He can run it, tell him how. bscool is right behind him imc wise and I am right behind bscool imc wise.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> Show him your timings, voltages settings etc. let him run them and see what happens perhaps? Dude has an amazing IMC. He can run it, tell him how.


Who FrameChasers? I mean if he owned a D5 kit with H16M or S16B ICs he can tune it himself and rerun the video. I would wager to bet it won't take a crazy D5 config to beat that 4000C14, but why on earth would FrameChasers get a new RAM kit and tune it because I ask him to XD? Look, the video is right there for you to check out and I've outlined what settings both were at. *I've also explained why his AIDA numbers are not accurate for the D5 config and thus a fairly slow D5 config is not trailing 4000C14 DR by all that much*. The statement you just read is unequivocally correct. It's a slow D5 config with inflated AIDA numbers and it isn't getting destroyed by 4000C14 DR. The proof is right there, there's nothing for me to make up. I don't know what else to say. Don't take my word for it if you don't want to, by all means, check out the video on your own and make note of what he says.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> I just gave you rep. I'm not trying to be a douche. Don't take me wrong please. I'm by far not dumb to this stuff. I've built electronic data collection systems by hand, box and all.


I don't think you or anyone else here is dumb. I merely have a point, along with evidence, and I'm trying to defend it. I wouldn't be disagreeing if I didn't think my stance holds water. The only condition that would completely invalidate what I said would be if FrameChasers has no idea how to benchmark or has had a terrible track record benchmarking; but his track record is good and he knows what he's doing to a relative degree. He doesn't touch tertiaries, TATs or any of the secondaries aside from tRFC and tREFI, so both configs are also fairly 1:1 in terms of their max capabilities. Also the same i9 chip and the same 3090. So I mean, what more could be wanted from the benchmark video.

Further than that I'm afraid that saying stuff like 7200C30 is needed to match 4200C14 in games or GPU-dependent benchmarks is a statement that can dissuade - perhaps wrongfully - many people from dipping their toes in the D5 pool.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> Who FrameChasers? I mean if he owned a D5 kit with H16M or S16B ICs he can tune it himself and rerun the video. I would wager to bet it won't take a crazy D5 config to beat that 4000C14, but why on earth would FrameChasers get a new RAM kit and tune it because I ask him to XD? Look, the video is right there for you to check out and I've outlined what settings both were at. *I've also explained why his AIDA numbers are not accurate for the D5 config and thus a fairly slow D5 config is not trailing 4000C14 DR by all that much*. The statement you just read is unequivocally correct. It's a slow D5 config with inflated AIDA numbers and it isn't getting destroyed by 4000C14 DR. The proof is right there, there's nothing for me to make up. I don't know what else to say. Don't take my word for it if you don't want to, by all means, check out the video on your own and make note of what he says.


The guy you originally started questioning.

@geriatricpollywog


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> The guy you originally started questioning.
> 
> @geriatricpollywog


Well I mean, he's welcome to test 4000C14 DR S8B against any D5 config he wishes while maintaining the same core frequency, ring frequency, GPU, and specific sub-timings tuned on either (both kits would have to have the same secondaries, tertiaries, TATs, etc. dialed in to make it fair). If his results are far different from FrameChasers' then perhaps it's a game-to-game thing or there's something else at play. At this point I have no reason to doubt FrameChasers' numbers, they've never really been inaccurate in the past. I guess a straight answer would be that I don't have to? I mean I've already seen a direct comparison that I believe to be accurate and that gives me the info necessary to make my decisions. You have to take a step back and realize what you're suggesting is that the video I watched is inherently wrong and that I _have_ to go by the numbers the individual mentioned above observes in his testing, and by that point it's a slippery slope of determining who has inherently more credibility.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> Well I mean, he's welcome to test 4000C14 DR S8B against any D5 config he wishes while maintaining the same core frequency, ring frequency, GPU, and specific sub-timings tuned on either (both kits would have to have the same secondaries, tertiaries, TATs, etc. dialed in to make it fair). If his results are far different from FrameChasers' then perhaps it's a game-to-game thing or there's something else at play. At this point I have no reason to doubt FrameChasers' numbers, they've never really been inaccurate in the past. I guess a straight answer would be that I don't have to? I mean I've already seen a direct comparison that I believe to be accurate and that gives me the info necessary to make my decisions. You have to take a step back and realize what you're suggesting is that the video I watched is inherently wrong and that I _have_ to go by the numbers the individual mentioned above observes in his testing, and by that point it's a slippery slope of determining who has inherently more credibility.



Wall of text and I'm tired from dealing with this motherboard at this point. Help him out in testing on here for everyone to see, and see what happens. That's the way forward that's verifiable and repeatable which is what electronic science is about, repeatability.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> Wall of text and I'm tired from dealing with this motherboard at this point. Help him out in testing on here for everyone to see, and see what happens. That's the way forward that's verifiable and repeatable which is what electronic science is about about, repeatability.


If you're not going to read what I have to say then I mean, that's that pretty much. I sent you a link, I specified the details, I allowed you to view the evidence. You're asking me to PM someone and tell them what they're doing wrong; I have no idea what he's doing wrong or why what's happening is happening. I have alternate testing that suggests a different perspective, and that's about it. There's no point asking me to dispel the current information I'm going on because you wouldn't have any means of proving that the video I linked you is inherently inaccurate/flawed. You have the ability to watch the video yourself and form your own conclusions as to why slow DDR5 was holding its own against relatively quick DDR4, but if you can't prove to me why the video is inaccurate, then how am I to change my stance?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

affxct said:


> Well I mean, he's welcome to test 4000C14 DR S8B against any D5 config he wishes while maintaining the same core frequency, ring frequency, GPU, and specific sub-timings tuned on either (both kits would have to have the same secondaries, tertiaries, TATs, etc. dialed in to make it fair). If his results are far different from FrameChasers' then perhaps it's a game-to-game thing or there's something else at play. At this point I have no reason to doubt FrameChasers' numbers, they've never really been inaccurate in the past. I guess a straight answer would be that I don't have to? I mean I've already seen a direct comparison that I believe to be accurate and that gives me the info necessary to make my decisions. You have to take a step back and realize what you're suggesting is that the video I watched is inherently wrong and that I _have_ to go by the numbers the individual mentioned above observes in his testing, and by that point it's a slippery slope of determining who has inherently more credibility.


My aim is to compare the fastest possible DDR4 configuration to the fastest possible DDR5 configuration, so timings don’t need to be the same.

I believe I have a top 1% overclock with my DDR4. It can pass memtest st 4200 14-15-15-28 and benchmark at 4300 14-15-15-28.

The problem is my overclock on my DDR5 Hynix kit is 6800-6933 30-42-42. This is good but not great and it’s not even stable. I would need to bin a few more kits before doing a proper comparison with my DDR4.

I don’t think Framechasers is trying to compare the best DDR5 to the best DDR4 like I am. He doesn’t have time for that kind of thing. I've seen his videos where the thumbnail says “Fastest Gaming PC Ever!” And it’s a 3080ti, $200 MSI Z690A-pro, cheap bdie kit, and an AIO cooler.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> If you're not going to read what I have to say then I mean, that's that pretty much. I sent you a link, I specified the details, I allowed you to view the evidence. You're asking me to PM someone and tell them what they're doing wrong; I have no idea what he's doing wrong or why what's happening is happening. I have alternate testing that suggests a different perspective, and that's about it. There's no point asking me to dispel the current information I'm going on because you wouldn't have any means of proving that the video I linked you is inherently inaccurate/flawed. You have the ability to watch the video yourself and form your own conclusions as to why slow DDR5 was holding its own against relatively quick DDR4, but if you can't prove to me why the video is inaccurate, then how am I to change my stance?


omg, JUST HELP HIM SET HIS SETTINGS OR NOT. If not move on, you're not helping if not dude. Wall of text blah blah help or not... Get over yourself man or help the community. It's obvious as the elephant in the room. Yeah I'm not playing your games. You've been given the obvious solution which is obvious, obviously.

Repeatability or no reason to comment any further.


----------



## affxct

geriatricpollywog said:


> My aim is to compare the fastest possible DDR4 configuration to the fastest possible DDR5 configuration, so timings don’t need to be the same.
> 
> I believe I have a top 1% overclock with my DDR4. It can pass memtest st 4200 14-15-15-28 and benchmark at 4300 14-15-15-28.
> 
> The problem is my overclock on my DDR5 Hynix kit is 6800-6933 30-42-42. This is good but not great and it’s not even stable. I would need to bin a few more kits before doing a proper comparison with my DDR4.
> 
> I don’t think Framechasers is trying to compare the best DDR5 to the best DDR4 like I am. He doesn’t have time for that kind of thing. I've seen his videos where the thumbnail says “Fastest Gaming PC Ever!” And it’s a 3080ti, $200 MSI Z690A-pro, cheap bdie kit, and an AIO cooler.


I believe you're missing the point. Someone on this thread said 7200C30 would be necessary to match 4200C14 - I disagreed. Someone else came forward and effectively said I'm talking rubbish, so I provided evidence. If 5650 36-44-44 matched, narrowly lost, or even narrowly beat, 4000C14 in the video I linked, then my stance that 7200C30 would not be required to match 4200C14 seems to make logical sense. Are we saying that the difference between 5650C36 and 7200C30 is equal or greater than the difference between 4000C14 and 4200C14? That would be the only logical conclusion.

*If FrameChasers' 12900K and S8B could have done 4200C14, and he pitted it against his slow D5, would the difference in testing have been so staggering that only 7200C30 would've been a sufficient enough speed bump on the side of D5 to overcome the trench between them? Would 4200C14 have outperformed 4000C14 so significantly that the minute difference between his D4 and D5 would've increase by a great margin and thus spurred on the need for lightning fast D5?*

That's kinda what it comes down to.


----------



## Arni90

affxct said:


> @truehighroller1
> (8) DDR5 VS DDR4 MAX OVERCLOCK GAMING BENCHMARKS 🖱🎮🖱🎮 - YouTube
> 
> DDR5-5650C36 (crap tRCD/tRP because M16A chips) CR2 vs D4-4000C14 (idk he probs uses 15-15) CR2
> 
> Like idk... I was daily'ing 6400 36-36-36 pretty easily on my last kit and that's a fair bit faster than 5650C36 with Micron tRCD and tRP. These numbers suggest that had he had a somewhat okay config like 6400 36-36-36, the D4 would've been matched at the very least, if not slightly overtaken (suggested by his results). I'm not saying FrameChasers is more trustworthy, I'm just saying that these results exist and suggest a different conclusion, that is all. In a world where 7200C30 is required to match 4200C14, 5650 36-44-44 should've gotten absolutely body'd by 4000C14 DR. In the video he said he had the D4 at 60GB/s Read on AIDA with 43ns access latency. He claimed the D5 was at 100GB/s Read and 58ns, but he CLEARLY used BCLK so his AIDA numbers that he thought his slow D5 was achieving mean jack s**t. Think more like 66-70ns with a boat load of tRCDRD and tRP latency for 5650 36-44-44.


Keep in mind that this guy used to claim that anyone getting better results than him using higher voltages were "XOC"-ers. He's also paywalling his discord-channel so that he can live in his own echo-chamber. I

I have no idea if he's less arrogant, and I don't intend to find out.


----------



## truehighroller1

Arni90 said:


> Keep in mind that this guy used to claim that anyone getting better results than him using higher voltages were "XOC"-ers. He's also paywalling his discord-channel so that he can live in his own echo-chamber. I
> 
> I have no idea if he's less arrogant, and I don't intend to find out.


Makes sense, thank you. Moving on from obvious troll.


----------



## affxct

Arni90 said:


> Keep in mind that this guy used to claim that anyone getting better results than him using higher voltages were "XOC"-ers. He's also paywalling his discord-channel so that he can live in his own echo-chamber. I
> 
> I have no idea if he's less arrogant, and I don't intend to find out.


With all due respect, neither of your statements are substantiated, and even if they were, it wouldn't invalidate his testing. Further than that, if his followers and those that utilize his build services really were brainwashed by him, wouldn't it stand to reason that him scalping uber-binned low-supply D5 that he just so happened to find to be much faster in his fudged testing would make more sense than him just telling everyone to go out and buy bargain bin Patriot Viper's? Moreover, D5 takes longer to stabilize than D4, and Jufes charges for his time. It would take longer for him to tune D5 and thus skewing results in favor of D5 and having his followers opt for D5 would make more sense from an economical standpoint if we are saying that he fudges his results to push a narrative.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> With all due respect, neither of your statements are substantiated, and even if they were, it wouldn't invalidate his testing. Further than that, if his followers and those that utilize his services really were brainwashed by him, wouldn't it stand to reason that him scalping uber-binned low-supply D5 that he just so happened to find to be much faster in his fudged testing would make more sense than him just telling everyone to go out and buy bargain bin Patriot Viper's?


OMG, YOU're obviously trolling. Help or not, done.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> Makes sense, thank you. Moving on from obvious troll.


Nothing that I've said has been said out of pocket, I've been respectful, and I've given you the link to make your own deductions.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

affxct said:


> I believe you're missing the point. Someone on this thread said 7200C30 would be necessary to match 4200C14 - I disagreed. Someone else came forward and effectively said I'm talking rubbish, so I provided evidence. If 5650 36-44-44 matched, narrowly lost, or even narrowly beat, 4000C14 in the video I linked, then my stance that 7200C30 would not be required to match 4200C14 seems to make logical sense. Are we saying that the difference between 5650C36 and 7200C30 is equal or greater than the difference between 4000C14 and 4200C14? That would be the only logical conclusion.
> 
> *If FrameChasers' 12900K and S8B could have done 4200C14, and he pitted it against his slow D5, would the difference in testing have been so staggering that only 7200C30 would've been a sufficient enough speed bump on the side of D5 to overcome the trench between them? Would 4200C14 have outperformed 4000C14 so significantly that the minute difference between his D4 and D5 would've increase by a great margin and thus spurred on the need for lightning fast D5?*
> 
> That's kinda what it comes down to.


I’m the one who said 7200c30 would be necessary to match 4200c14 based on my own testing, not someone elses. I could be wrong too. I was only comparing DDR4 and DDR5 in 2 benchmarks: SoTR and Firestrike. But the difference wasn’t even close. Keep in mind I’m comparing DDR4 to DDR5 using the same GPU and CPU and most importantly the same bloated Win 10 install. I’ve seen someone beat my SoTR by 20fps on slower DDR4 using a stripped down race-weight Win 10.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> OMG, YOU're obviously trolling. Help or not, done.


What makes you think I can help? I never claimed that I can or that I'm some incredible tuner and that everyone else is wrong. I don't know why on earth the person who's dealing with this dilemma is seeing what he/she is seeing and all I did was substantiate a statement that you accused me of incorrectly making. Thus far you've done nothing but call me names, and you've done nothing to prove the video wrong. Further than that, an unfounded comment that fits your narrative was enough for you to conclude that you were correct all along. Nothing scientific about any of this.


----------



## truehighroller1

geriatricpollywog said:


> I’m the one who said 7200c30 would be necessary to match 4200c14 based on my own testing, not someone elses. I could be wrong too. I was only comparing DDR4 and DDR5 in 2 benchmarks: SoTR and Firestrike. But the difference wasn’t even close. Keep in mind I’m comparing DDR4 to DDR5 using the same GPU and CPU and most importantly the same bloated Win 10 install. I’ve seen someone beat my SoTR by 20fps on slower DDR4 using a stripped down race-weight Win 10.


You're a beast. Much respect.



affxct said:


> What makes you think I can help? I never claimed that I can or that I'm some incredible tuner and that everyone else is wrong. I don't know why on earth the person who's dealing with this dilemma is seeing what he/she is seeing and all I did was substantiate a statement that you accused me of incorrectly making.


Giving you respect because I'm for the community.


----------



## affxct

geriatricpollywog said:


> I’m the one who said 7200c30 would be necessary to match 4200c14 based on my own testing, not someone elses. I could be wrong too. I was only comparing DDR4 and DDR5 in 2 benchmarks: SoTR and Firestrike. But the difference wasn’t even close. Keep in mind I’m comparing DDR4 to DDR5 using the same GPU and CPU and most importantly the same bloated Win 10 install. I’ve seen someone beat my SoTR by 20fps on slower DDR4 using a stripped down race-weight Win 10.


Again, I don't know why you're seeing what you're seeing and I wish that it weren't the case. All I can share from my perspective is a video that I believe to be accurate from a YouTuber that I've enjoyed the content of, and who doesn't have any logical reason to have fudged the results. As I said to another person previously, Jufes has continued to use D4 in his custom builds and has continued to mention in his videos that cheap S8B D4 is still the go-to for ADL-S. His results suggest that rather slow D5 is capable of damn near matching relatively fast - not quite as fast as yours, but nearly there - D4, and thus it stands to reason that if he did in fact fudge the results, he could've merely said "look at the video, and imagine what 6600C30 could do," thereafter scalp D5 kits he could have 'binned' into his custom builds and justify the reason for him overcharging for them. He could have also changed his entire stance on D4 and capitalized on D5's long tuning period requirements for stability to eke out more money on time spent on his followers' consultations. If his numbers are fudged to inflate D5 then I simply don't understand why he doesn't shove D5 down our throats to make the capital gains I've just road mapped. It would be like taking candy from a baby.

As such I simply don't see a reason to not give merit to the video I linked, and I personally don't believe that the gap between D4 4000C14 and D4 4200C14 is comparable to the gap between D5 5650C36 and D5 7200C30. I might be wrong, but I just don't see it. I'm no authority on D5 or D4 and I'm definitely not the most knowledgeable person on this forum, but please don't tell me that my stance is ludicrous. It quite simply isn't.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> Again, I don't know why you're seeing what you're seeing and I wish that it weren't the case. All I can share from my perspective is a video that I believe to be accurate from a YouTuber that I've enjoyed the content of, and who doesn't have any logical reason to have fudged the results. As I said to another person previously, Jufes has continued to use D4 in his custom builds and has continued to mention in his videos that cheap S8B D4 is still the go-to for ADL-S. His results suggest that rather slow D5 is capable of damn near matching relatively fast - not quite as fast as yours, but nearly there - D4, and thus it stands to reason that if he did in fact fudge the results, he could've merely said "look at the video, and imagine what 6600C30 could do," thereafter scalp D5 kits he could have 'binned' into his custom builds and justify the reason for him overcharging for them. He could have also changed his entire stance on D4 and capitalised on D5's long tuning period requirements for stability to eke out more money on time spent on his followers' consultations. If his numbers are fudged to inflate D5 then I simply don't understand why he doesn't shove D5 down our throats to make the capital gains I've just roadmapped. It would be like taking candy from a baby.


Wall text. Help or not. Gave you rep again/


----------



## bigfootnz

munternet said:


> He sells PCs so he's trying to help out a customer. Doesn't sound like he's keen to overclock or tinker. Maybe he'd be better off with a 2 dimm board?
> Thanks for the reply


If that is the case, can he consider MSI 2 dimm? What I can see here that MSI 2 dimm has much better chance working with XMP than any Asus even Apex.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> Wall text. Help or not. Gave you rep again/


By this point, you're pretty much trying to bully me for no reason. Please just stop. I'm honestly not in the mood for this category of an altercation. I come to OCN to get away from this type of thing.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> By this point you're pretty much trying to bully me for no reason.


I guess man, besides for me giving you rep and you me none. Makes sense. Opposites. Nice try good game, game over. End game. Obvious troll as others have pointed out not, just me.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> You're a beast. Much respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Giving you respect because I'm for the community.


Perhaps I didn't make my stance clear. I'm not saying that their testing was wrong, I was merely saying that I don't personally share the same stance as them regarding the 7200C30 claim and I gave evidence. No more, no less. I don't have the means or the necessary info to say why their results are what they are, I can't even get a hold of a reasonably-priced 2-DIMM board or Hynix D5, and my 12900K is mediocre. I also cannot afford to purchase good D4 and a good D4 Z690 to do my own comparative testing.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> I guess man, besides for me giving you rep and you me none. Makes sense. Opposites. Nice try good game, game over. End game. Obvious troll as others have pointed out not, just me.


If I'm a troll then I don't know what it takes to not troll. Thus far I'm the only person who's put effort into defending their argument, while you seem to not care at all what I have to say. Further than that you've leveraged your prior laurels in the industry to give credence to your justification in discrediting my statements.


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> If I'm a troll then I don't know what it takes to not troll. Thus far I'm the only person who's put effort into defending their argument, while you seem to not care at all what I have to say. Further than that you've leveraged your prior laurels in the industry to give credence to your justification in discrediting my statements.


Help him out dude. Show him the way bro. You're right prove it, show him the way. Show him, show us. Prove it.


----------



## affxct

truehighroller1 said:


> Help him out dude.


How do you suggest I do that? I haven't even identified anything wrong with his settings or his testing. I don't even own Hynix D5 or a D4 Z690 setup and my personal CPU doesn't have an IMC that can do his caliber of settings. If I did accuse him of doing something wrong, please point it out by all means and I'll retract my statement and apologize. I see you've edited your comment. I seriously don't get you dude. How many times do I have to tell you what my initial reply to him was regarding?


----------



## truehighroller1

affxct said:


> Attacked? Are you insane? Attacked him how and where. Please point it out.


Okay? sTILL, NOT ME, HIM BRO. Help him, go ahead. Help him prove you're right about performance of ddr 5 vrs ddr 4.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I can call cstkl1 or DM buildzoid if I really need expert help, but I’d rather not waste their time since I’ll probably end up returning my DDR5 modules and motherboard anyway. I’ll spend some more time this week trying to dial in the DDR5 and if I make any progress I’ll benchmark some more games back to back against DDR4.

As for jules from Framechasers, he’s not a complete charlatan but he is trying to sell a service. Lately he’s been doubling down on the 3090 being faster than the 6900XT and it seems that’s because he recommended the 3090 during his $500 consults and he doesn’t want to be wrong. I understand that some people rely on his testing, but I don’t trust, nor do I need to. I can compare DDR4 to DDR5 using my own hardware.

@truehighroller1 I probably don’t have the best IMC, but I might have one of the best DDR4 kits. My SP89 is good but there are better 12900k out there. MyDDR5 Hynix kit is just average it seems. Not the best example to compare against the best DDR4 kit.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Can I just interrupt to show this














12700kf 52x6 50x8 ring47 SA 1.15 MC 2.6 Tx 1.435
Been stuck at 6000 with my Samsung 5600 cl36 kit until yesterday thinking that my mid range 4 slot Gbyte board or MC was stopping me going any further.
But after reading some motivational posts on here I spent time tuning SA and MC voltages (now both lower)
not only did I get 6200 stable but also with 1T. Not quite finished with mem timings yet.
Used usb memtest to get most of the way there one notch of MC and SA at a time then Karhu.
Its all about those 2 settings, a poor combo and you're never gonna get it.
I'll tune this then go for 6400 I guess its unlikely to do 1T though?


----------



## affxct

DanGleeballs said:


> Can I just interrupt to show this
> View attachment 2551331
> View attachment 2551331
> 
> 12700kf 52x6 50x8 ring47 SA 1.15 MC 2.6 Tx 1.435
> Been stuck at 6000 with my Samsung 5600 cl36 kit until yesterday thinking that my mid range 4 slot Gbyte board or MC was stopping me going any further.
> But after reading some motivational posts on here I spent time tuning SA and MC voltages (now both lower)
> not only did I get 6200 stable but also with 1T. Not quite finished with mem timings yet.
> Used usb memtest to get most of the way there one notch of MC and SA at a time then Karhu.
> Its all about those 2 settings, a poor combo and you're never gonna get it.
> I'll tune this then go for 6400 I guess its unlikely to do 1T though?


This is exceptional dude. 1T with a Samsung 5600 kit on a Z690 Aorus Pro. Crazy AF.


----------



## CptSpig

*G.SKILL and ASUS Smashes DDR5 Overclocking World Record at DDR5-9559







*


----------



## db000

CptSpig said:


> *G.SKILL and ASUS Smashes DDR5 Overclocking World Record at DDR5-9559
> View attachment 2551340
> *


Quite old tho? "2022-01-12"








Intel Core i9 12900K @ 3636.71 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[59x029] Validated Dump by lupin_no_musume (2022-01-12 08:48:17) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX - RAM: 16384 MB




valid.x86.fr





Either way, lovely freq  that is one sexy looking DIMM slot.


----------



## DanGleeballs

@affxct Thanks mate appreciate it. Seems I have a decent kit.
I thought DDR4 was tricky...... DDR5 has to be all your own work no copypaste.


----------



## Super suave

Longtime lurker here , I plugged in buildzoids exact timings on my launch apex with a sp 89 12900k and 6400 skill kit. It’s at 30-37-37 79 6133 T1 gear 2. Managed 53.9 ns on Aida 64 no errors. Should I be happy with that lol ?


----------



## david12900k

Would love some help optimizing my Gskill 6400-cl32 1T kit
I have been trying for weeks now to get my 6400cl32 kit stable at 1T, and I finally did. I used a youtuber's recommendations as a starting point for voltages, primary, and secondary timings and this week did a ton of testing and finally got my loose timings stable, but would like some help.

Here are my current settings:
XMP II, 6400 cl32-39-39-60 

DRAM CAS# Latency32DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay39DRAM RAS# PRE Time39DRAM RAS# ACT Time60DRAM Command Rate1NDRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L6DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S4DRAM REF Cycle Time360DRAM REF Cycle Time 2360DRAM REF Cycle Time Same Bank260DRAM Refresh Interval6500DRAM WRITE Recovery TimeAutoDRAM READ to PRE Time8DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time16DRAM WRITE to READ DelayAutoDRAM WRITE to READ Delay LAutoDRAM WRITE to READ Delay SAutoDRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width4DRAM Write Latency30
_NOTE_ I dont know anything about secondary timings, im using the video's timings as examples (I had to bump the REF Cycle times up from 344 to 360 to get stability (although i cant isolate that as the cause as i also changed MC voltage)
Voltages sit at 

CPU SA0.95High DRAMEnabledVDD1.5VDDQ1.45IVR VDDQ1.5MC Voltage1.3

I found that I really had to keep SA at 0.95. I originally tried 1.325 MC, but that was unstable, so I tried 1.35 and it was more unstable. Then Decreased it to 1.3 and it fixed the errors and I got my first stable OC. I then tried to drop down the DRAM RAS# ACT Time from 102 (default XMP) to 42, but that produced errors. DRAM RAS# ACT Time of 60 worked.

Next I tried to reduce my CAS from 32 to 30, but that instantly produced errors. I figured maybe I would try lowering the MC again to 1.275 and it did error, but took much longer and had WAY fewer errors. So now im trying cl30 @ 1.25 MC and so far (1 cycle and 30 minutes into TM5 @anta777 ) and so far so good, but will let TM5 finish out.

I have a few questions:
1. Does someone have a good resource for DDR5 secondary timings or can someone recommend ways you can see that I can optimize mine?
2. Are there other settings I should change?
3. What are the most impactful settings to change to increase performance? I would assume all 4 of the primary timings, but what about secondary timings?


----------



## db000

Super suave said:


> Longtime lurker here , I plugged in buildzoids exact timings on my launch apex with a sp 89 12900k and 6400 skill kit. It’s at 30-37-37 79 6133 T1 gear 2. Managed 53.9 ns on Aida 64 no errors. Should I be happy with that lol ?



Either your happy with that or your not. If its stable and good enough for you, only you can decide mate! If you wanna hit a freq goal or latency~score. Go ahead and try optimizing more  But be prepared to dedicate ALOT of time and energy (= + extra shot of espresso)


----------



## truehighroller1

MC_SULY_514 said:


> not sure how that'll work, tbh but i felt your pain.
> i dunno if the new board would be any better but like earlier i have no regrets swapping to msi unify-x.
> i just sold me board on ebay and it sold in 5 hours
> 
> good luk



Thank you first and foremost.


I'm going to let them burn their bridges at this point because based on the obvious free stuff trolls here being directed towards me they deserve to burn their rep. Prove me wrong, treat me right a customer for 20 years or more now. Stop your trolls. Otherwise burn it down, go right ahead.



db000 said:


> Either your happy with that or your not. If its stable and good enough for you, only you can decide mate! If you wanna hit a freq goal or latency~score. Go ahead and try optimizing more  But be prepared to dedicate ALOT of time and energy (= + extra shot of espresso)















Super suave said:


> Longtime lurker here , I plugged in buildzoids exact timings on my launch apex with a sp 89 12900k and 6400 skill kit. It’s at 30-37-37 79 6133 T1 gear 2. Managed 53.9 ns on Aida 64 no errors. Should I be happy with that lol ?


First time poster, good timing.


----------



## matique

geriatricpollywog said:


> My aim is to compare the fastest possible DDR4 configuration to the fastest possible DDR5 configuration, so timings don’t need to be the same.
> 
> I believe I have a top 1% overclock with my DDR4. It can pass memtest st 4200 14-15-15-28 and benchmark at 4300 14-15-15-28.
> 
> The problem is my overclock on my DDR5 Hynix kit is 6800-6933 30-42-42. This is good but not great and it’s not even stable. I would need to bin a few more kits before doing a proper comparison with my DDR4.
> 
> I don’t think Framechasers is trying to compare the best DDR5 to the best DDR4 like I am. He doesn’t have time for that kind of thing. I've seen his videos where the thumbnail says “Fastest Gaming PC Ever!” And it’s a 3080ti, $200 MSI Z690A-pro, cheap bdie kit, and an AIO cooler.


Lmk what game comparison you'd like to see for performance difference vs your best d4 settings. I can scale all the way to 5.4 pcore 7000c30. If I've the game and it has a easy built in bench then idm running a few scenarios and see how it is. 

Fwiw I did a comparison with a friend, just a side by side thing. 6600c30 overtakes 4000c14, both tightened, at least in esports titles at the same location. Z690 Unify itx vs z690 a pro.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

matique said:


> Lmk what game comparison you'd like to see for performance difference vs your best d4 settings. I can scale all the way to 5.4 pcore 7000c30.


I’ve been using Firestrike GT1/GT2 and SoTR.


----------



## matique

geriatricpollywog said:


> I’ve been using Firestrike GT1/GT2 and SoTR.


Sottr resolution /settings? Pcore freq, ecore freq, ht on/off.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

matique said:


> Sottr resolution /settings? Pcore freq, ecore freq, ht on/off.


Sottr is not as useful since it can be manipulated and results can be boosted by a stripped down OS, but you are welcome to post results in my thread which has all the details. We need more DDR5 results:









Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider


I'm pleased to host the Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark competition. SoTR is an excellent way to test how your memory overclock translates to gaming performance. It's also a useful tool for comparing DDR4 to DDR5. Rules: -Entries will be ranked by average FPS. -Must self-report system info...




www.overclock.net





Otherwise, Firestrike and Time Spy GT1/GT2 are what I’ve been mostly using to compare my DDR4 and DDR5.


----------



## matique

geriatricpollywog said:


> Sottr is not as useful since it can be manipulated and results can be boosted by a stripped down OS, but you are welcome to post results in my thread which has all the details. We need more DDR5 results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider
> 
> 
> I'm pleased to host the Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark competition. SoTR is an excellent way to test how your memory overclock translates to gaming performance. It's also a useful tool for comparing DDR4 to DDR5. Rules: -Entries will be ranked by average FPS. -Must self-report system info...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise, Firestrike and Time Spy GT1/GT2 are what I’ve been mostly using to compare my DDR4 and DDR5.


Sure will do, I'll run some later 😁 those are a bit hard to compare tho since mostly gpu bound? 
Here's mine I did at 5.4 7000c30.








Result not found







www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Making a little progress with high voltages.

VDD: 1.66v
VDDQ: 1.6v
TX VDDQ: 1.6v
IMC: 1.38V


----------



## asdkj1740

CptSpig said:


> *G.SKILL and ASUS Smashes DDR5 Overclocking World Record at DDR5-9559
> View attachment 2551340
> *


6000u4040e for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lets buy 6000u4040e!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## asdkj1740

Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com




latest msi z690 beta bios

unify x->a24
mortar wifi->b14
unify->125


----------



## stahlhart

.


----------



## marti69

some bclk oc with gigabyte z690 xtreme i wasnt expecting such results from this board im going to sell my apex 2021 and keep the aorus lol.


----------



## bscool

marti69 said:


> some bclk oc with gigabyte z690 xtreme i wasnt expecting such results from this board im going to sell my apex 2021 and keep the aorus lol.
> View attachment 2551505


You know that with bclk aida64 is way off. Not even close to accurate.

Without knowing all your timings you are probably more like in the 55 to 60ns plus range on latency.

@sugi0lover video


----------



## truehighroller1

marti69 said:


> some bclk oc with gigabyte z690 xtreme i wasnt expecting such results from this board im going to sell my apex 2021 and keep the aorus lol.
> View attachment 2551505


That's a bug. That's not real numbers.


----------



## Maj0

hi, trying to run *32GB (2x 16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 DIMM CL40-40-40-76 Dual Kit with Samsung Chips* on Asus Z690 Apex even on latest firmware 1304.
But isnt stable in MemTest - not with default options and sadly neither with XMP I. Only running stable on 2400 Mhz... Anyone any idea ?


----------



## asdkj1740

Maj0 said:


> hi, trying to run *32GB (2x 16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 DIMM CL40-40-40-76 Dual Kit with Samsung Chips* on Asus Z690 Apex even on latest firmware 1304.
> But isnt stable in MemTest - not with default options and sadly neither with XMP I. Only running stable on 2400 Mhz... Anyone any idea ?


must be your own fault, this model is no.1, 9xxx mhz easy.

just kidding, return it.
it doesn't worth the trouble.


----------



## 7empe

Maj0 said:


> hi, trying to run *32GB (2x 16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 DIMM CL40-40-40-76 Dual Kit with Samsung Chips* on Asus Z690 Apex even on latest firmware 1304.
> But isnt stable in MemTest - not with default options and sadly neither with XMP I. Only running stable on 2400 Mhz... Anyone any idea ?


What's your MC voltage for XMP I?


----------



## 7empe

It's a high time to talk about ODT settings on Z690. Especially on Apex.
The algorithms behind the board auto terminations are very inconsistent.

I know that the values I'm going to list below can, and most probably are board-specific. I've been working with ODTs since Z390 and I can tell that there is however similarity in the settings that work the best for given board design. So, if you have Apex and noticed some boot-to-boot instabilities (one day your profile is stable, while another day it errors in few seconds), try these settings and tweak from there. I've been using my 6666C30 profile as a baseline. Setting proper ODTs should also work better for higher frequencies, but may require additional tweaking due to different signal's reflection characteristics.

MC0/MC1

DQ RTT WR : 0/0
DQ RTT NOM RD : 48/48
DQ RTT NOM WR : 48/48
DQ RTT PARK: 40/40
DQ RTT PARK DQS: 34/34
GroupA CA: 0/0
GroupA CS: 0/0
GroupA CK: 0/0
GroupB CA: 40/40
GroupB CS: 40/40
GroupB CK: 40/40
pull-up: 34/34
pull-down: 34/34
Resistance for GroupA can be disabled as it is close to the MC. GroupB is at the end of the fly-by routing so it needs stronger resistance - 40 ohms should be enough.

Cheers!


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> It's a high time to talk about ODT settings on Z690. Especially on Apex.
> The algorithms behind the board auto terminations are very inconsistent.
> 
> I know that the values I'm going to list below can, and most probably are board-specific. I've been working with ODTs since Z390 and I can tell that there is however similarity in the settings that work the best for given board design. So, if you have Apex and noticed some boot-to-boot instabilities (one day your profile is stable, while another day it errors in few seconds), try these settings and tweak from there. I've been using my 6666C30 profile as a baseline. Setting proper ODTs should also work better for higher frequencies, but may require additional tweaking due to different signal's reflection characteristics.
> 
> MC0/MC1
> 
> DQ RTT WR : 0/0
> DQ RTT NOM RD : 48/48
> DQ RTT NOM WR : 48/48
> DQ RTT PARK: 40/40
> DQ RTT PARK DQS: 34/34
> GroupA CA: 0/0
> GroupA CS: 0/0
> GroupA CK: 0/0
> GroupB CA: 40/40
> GroupB CS: 40/40
> GroupB CK: 40/40
> pull-up: 34/34
> pull-down: 34/34
> Resistance for GroupA can be disabled as it is close to the MC. GroupB is at the end of the fly-by routing so it needs stronger resistance - 40 ohms should be enough.
> 
> Cheers!



This is what mine's showing right now for 6000 
TCL 40
tRCD 40
tRP 40
tRAS 76
CMD Rate 2
=============================================================================================
tRRD_sg 12
tRRD_dg 8
tRFC 383
tREFi 5851
tRTP 40
tFAW 32
tCKE 18
tWCL 38
=============================================================================================
tRDRD_sg 12
tRDRD_dg 8
tRDWR_sg 18
tRDWR_dg 18
tWRWR_sg 26
tWRWR_dg  8
tWRRD_sg 72
tWRRD_dg 54
tRDRD_dr 14
tRDRD_dd 14
tRDWR_dr 20
tRDWR_dd 22
tWRWR_dr 14
tWRWR_dd 14
tWRRD_dr 12
tWRRD_dd 12
tRDPRE 17
tWRPRE 135
tPRPDEN 2
tRDPDEN 48
tWRPDEN 136
tCPDED 15
=============================================================================================
tRPab_ext 0
tPPD 4
trefsbrd_A0 45
trefsbrd 91
=============================================================================================
reset_on_command 0
reset_delay 0
tCAL 0
tXPDLL 58
tXP 18
tAONPD 0
tZQCS 78
oref_ri 64
refresh_hp_wm 6
refresh_panic_wm 7
tREFIx9 50
tXSDLL 1792
tZQOPER 0
tMOD 40
Ref_interval 0
Ref_stagger_en 0
ref_stagger_mode 0
Disable_stolen_refresh 0
en_ref_type_display 1
ODT_Read_Duration 0
ODT_Read_Delay 0
ODT_Write_Duration 0
ODT_Write_Delay 0
dis_odt 0
dis_async_odt 0
Write_Early_ODT 0
=============================================================================================
Dis_Opp_rd 0
ACT_Enable 1
PRE_Enable 1
MAX_RPQ_CAS 10
Power Down 0
PDWN_idle_counter 32
APD 0
PPD 0
Global_PD 0
TT_idle_counter 0
dis_cke_tt 1










Are mine out of whack too?


----------



## asdkj1740

del


----------



## 7empe

truehighroller1 said:


> This is what mine's showing right now for 6000
> TCL 40
> tRCD 40
> tRP 40
> tRAS 76
> CMD Rate 2
> =============================================================================================
> tRRD_sg 12
> tRRD_dg 8
> tRFC 383
> tREFi 5851
> tRTP 40
> tFAW 32
> tCKE 18
> tWCL 38
> =============================================================================================
> tRDRD_sg 12
> tRDRD_dg 8
> tRDWR_sg 18
> tRDWR_dg 18
> tWRWR_sg 26
> tWRWR_dg 8
> tWRRD_sg 72
> tWRRD_dg 54
> tRDRD_dr 14
> tRDRD_dd 14
> tRDWR_dr 20
> tRDWR_dd 22
> tWRWR_dr 14
> tWRWR_dd 14
> tWRRD_dr 12
> tWRRD_dd 12
> tRDPRE 17
> tWRPRE 135
> tPRPDEN 2
> tRDPDEN 48
> tWRPDEN 136
> tCPDED 15
> =============================================================================================
> tRPab_ext 0
> tPPD 4
> trefsbrd_A0 45
> trefsbrd 91
> =============================================================================================
> reset_on_command 0
> reset_delay 0
> tCAL 0
> tXPDLL 58
> tXP 18
> tAONPD 0
> tZQCS 78
> oref_ri 64
> refresh_hp_wm 6
> refresh_panic_wm 7
> tREFIx9 50
> tXSDLL 1792
> tZQOPER 0
> tMOD 40
> Ref_interval 0
> Ref_stagger_en 0
> ref_stagger_mode 0
> Disable_stolen_refresh 0
> en_ref_type_display 1
> ODT_Read_Duration 0
> ODT_Read_Delay 0
> ODT_Write_Duration 0
> ODT_Write_Delay 0
> dis_odt 0
> dis_async_odt 0
> Write_Early_ODT 0
> =============================================================================================
> Dis_Opp_rd 0
> ACT_Enable 1
> PRE_Enable 1
> MAX_RPQ_CAS 10
> Power Down 0
> PDWN_idle_counter 32
> APD 0
> PPD 0
> Global_PD 0
> TT_idle_counter 0
> dis_cke_tt 1
> 
> View attachment 2551555
> 
> 
> Are mine out of whack too?


OC Tool does not show proper RTT/ODT and do not reflect what's currently set in BIOS.


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> OC Tool does not show proper RTT/ODT and do not reflect what's currently set in BIOS.


Which tool does show it correctly?


----------



## 7empe

truehighroller1 said:


> Which tool does show it correctly?


None I am aware of 
I've hardcoded all the ODTs and RTTs and OC Tool shows same values as before.


----------



## asdkj1740

when asus and gigabyte said some ddr5 vendor should be the one to be blamed.


----------



## truehighroller1

asdkj1740 said:


> when asus and gigabyte said some ddr5 vendor should be the one to blame.
> View attachment 2551578
> 
> 
> View attachment 2551579


When did Asus say it?


----------



## Nizzen

Daily Dell 
7000mhz is pretty much max for this dell kit. It doesn't like 7200c32. Haven't tried looser timings 7200, but loose timings I don't want 
PS: Voltages is for 7200mhz so it's abit high, but needed to check if the Dell sticks did like the "voltages" or not. So it looks like the sticks is the bottleneck. No scaling on more "voltage"

My G.skill 6400 does 7200 on air, so looks like I need to put them on water soon.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP82 - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
G.Skill Trident Z5 F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK (Samsung) + 2x Noctua A6x25

*2x16GB DDR5-6666 32-39-39-48-2T
VDD 1.50v | VDDQ 1.48v | TX VDDQ 1.45v | SA 1.25v | MC 1.25v*


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP82 - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 126
> G.Skill Trident Z5 F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK (Samsung) + 2x Noctua A6x25
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-6666 32-39-39-48-2T
> VDD 1.50v | VDDQ 1.48v | TX VDDQ 1.45v | SA 1.25v | MC 1.25v*
> View attachment 2551609


Nice voltages for that speed and timings 👍


----------



## affxct

Small update on my Lancer kit. So either the distributor mixed up sticks while adding their own warranty stickers or Adata did. My new kit had sequential S/N's. I'm just redoing my PC, but I'm hoping for Richtek/Hynix 😬


----------



## sugi0lover

[Some points of this OC setup]

Karhu 10000% stable (2hrs)
All cores including E-cores enabled (E-cores on or off doesn't make any difference for the ram stability for my system)
Even with E-cores enabled and Cache 45, the latency is not bad comparing with E-cores off + Cache 50.
(The difference is not even 1ns : P55/Eoff/C50 vs P54/E42/C45)
tRCD and tRP 40 40 at 7200 CL30 is not stable, so 41 40 is used. Still it helps higher performance.
Even with Ram water cooling, the winter is gone and ram temp rises above 30C, still stable as rock.
tRFC 280 at 7200 CL30 is bootable, but 305 is stable
tRFCpb 190 at 7200 CL30 is bootable, but I used 220 which helps lowering latency a little bit.
Even at 7200 CL30, low voltages SA(0.91v) and MC(1.26v) are enough.
y-cruncher temp and max wattage are bugged as usual for my setup. don't know why.
Finally, I put really hard work to make this setup stable.
[Edit] forgot mentioning the big change of my oc setup: mode 2 -> mode 1 (more stable for me)

[OC setup]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.4Ghz , E 4.2Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-26-305-2T (all sub-timings optimized)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1304)
○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.575v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.26v / SA 0.91v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony.


----------



## sugi0lover

[sharing very good OC result considering voltages - not my OC]

7000 c32 at 1.4v
120mm fan ram cooling (2000 rpm)


----------



## affxct

ASRock's new 8.06 BIOS adds full AXV-512 support. It's also kinda cool that when you enable it, it automatically disables all the E's for you.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> ASRock's new 8.06 BIOS adds full AXV-512 support. It's also kinda cool that when you enable it, it automatically disables all the E's for you.


Live in windows, or in bios


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> Live in windows, or in bios


I knew it enabled because I turned it on in BIOS for the lols and was surprised to see I had lost all my E-cores upon booting. I then opened up CPU-Z, and there you go. I honestly can't believe they did it after Intel's announcement lmao.


----------



## Arni90

sugi0lover said:


> y-cruncher temp and max wattage are bugged as usual for my setup. don't know why.


Very impressive! 

If you enable SVID support, you'll see correct power measurements at the very least.


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> [Some points of this OC setup]
> 
> Karhu 10000% stable (2hrs)
> All cores including E-cores enabled (E-cores on or off doesn't make any difference for the ram stability for my system)
> Even with E-cores enabled and Cache 45, the latency is not bad comparing with E-cores off + Cache 50.
> (The difference is not even 1ns : P55/Eoff/C50 vs P54/E42/C45)
> tRCD and tRP 40 40 at 7200 CL30 is not stable, so 41 40 is used. Still it helps higher performance.
> Even with Ram water cooling, the winter is gone and ram temp rises above 30C, still stable as rock.
> tRFC 280 at 7200 CL30 is bootable, but 305 is stable
> tRFCpb 190 at 7200 CL30 is bootable, but I used 220 which helps lowering latency a liitle bit.
> Even at 7200 CL30, low voltages SA(0.91v) and MC(1.26v) are enough.
> y-cruncher temp and max wattage are bugged as usual for my setup. don't know why.
> Finally, I put really hard work to make this setup stable.
> [Edit] forgot mentioning the big change of my oc setup: mode 2 -> mode 1 (more stable for me)
> 
> [OC setup]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5.4Ghz , E 4.2Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-26-305-2T (all sub-timings optimized)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1304)
> ○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.575v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.26v / SA 0.91v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony.
> 
> View attachment 2551657


Mode 1 is always more stable because of looser RTL and IOL's. Mode 1 is what you get when setting it to Auto.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Since I'm down with covid atm I can't be bothered to fix my 7100 and 7200 profiles just yet 
Tested some TM5 anta on my 7k go to profile. Not sure how the completion time is, but I guess it's ok'ish (with no e-cores).

This profile just works no matter what. I can load it from a completely unstable state and there is no need to power cycle or other shenanigans to make it work =)

Anyone know why Hwinfo don't read my t-sensor(bois reads it just fine)?


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> Mode 1 is always more stable because of looser RTL and IOL's. Mode 1 is what you get when setting it to Auto.


Thanks for the info~ The other 7200 CL30 OC except the last one was done at mode2, so I can compare RTL from ASROCK TIMING CONFIGURATOR. For the reference, it's the below.
Mode 1 : *63*/57/63/58
Mode 2 : *62*/57/63/58


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for the info~ The other 7200 CL30 OC except the last one was done at mode2, so I can compare RTL from ASROCK TIMING CONFIGURATOR. For the reference, it's the below.
> Mode 1 : *63*/57/63/58
> Mode 2 : *62*/57/63/58


Interesting i know I have compared mode1 vs mode 2 in the past on z690 Apex and saw no difference in my rtl/iols. So I just checked again and it trains the exact same rtl/iols for me.

Disabled MRC fast boot and enabled full MCH check. Not sure why but it doesnt train them tighter for me. 

Round trip latency is set to enabled.

I know on older gens mode 2 trained tighter but I am not seeing it on my 2021 or 2022 Apex.


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> Interesting i know I have compared mode1 vs mode 2 in the past on z690 Apex and saw no difference in my rtl/iols. So I just checked again and it trains the exact same rtl/iols for me.
> 
> Disabled MRC fast boot and enabled full MCH check. Not sure why but it doesnt train them tighter for me.
> 
> Round trip latency is set to enabled.
> 
> I know on older gens mode 2 trained tighter but I am not seeing it on my 2021 or 2022 Apex.


Thanks for your input!
My mode 2 setup is a liitle different from yours, that may be the reason.
MRC fast boot = enabled
full MCH check = disabled


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for your input!
> My mode 2 setup is a liitle different from yours, that may be the reason.
> MRC fast boot = enabled
> full MCH check = disabled


I just tried those setting now and still no change. Also tried them auto/defaults and no change.

Anyone else compare mode 1 to mode 2 and see no change in RTL/iols on Apex?


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> I just tried those setting now and still no change. Also tried them auto/defaults and no change.
> 
> Anyone else compare mode 1 to mode 2 and see no change in RTL/iols on Apex?


Oh, one more difference. 
My mode 2 is e cores off.
Mode 1 is e cores on. Not sure this makes difference.


----------



## truehighroller1

You guys are the only ones running this fast on apex lol. Such a small niche group. Still waiting on Asus 😢 God Dane this is depressing.


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> Oh, one more difference.
> My mode 2 is e cores off.
> Mode 1 is e cores on. Not sure this makes difference.


Ok. I also made a post in Asus z690 thread. Curious to see what others find.


----------



## bscool

@sugi0lover Are you using the bios with ucode 15?

Wonder if that matters. I only currently have ucode 15 on both bios 1 and 2.

Edit also tried e cores disabled and saw no difference.


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> @sugi0lover Are you using the bios with ucode 15?
> 
> Wonder if that matters. I only currently have ucode 15 on both bios 1 and 2.
> 
> Edit also tried e cores disabled and saw no difference.


Yes. I am using the bio uou posted.


----------



## Balaned

I'm really hoping someone can help me here. 12900K, Unify-X, Corsair Hynix 6200.

tWR in BIOS is stuck hard at 48, no lower. I enter a lower value and it resets to 48 right before my eyes. I would love to be able to tune this as it seems high.

tRTP is set to 12 in the BIOS which is the lowest it can be set and behaves like tWR above but at 12. Still, even at 12 in the BIOS it shows as 17 in ASR Timing Configurator.

If anyone could please explain or even cure, if possible, this behavior I would be very appreciative. 

Thank you.


----------



## opt33

Balaned said:


> I'm really hoping someone can help me here. 12900K, Unify-X, Corsair Hynix 6200.
> 
> tWR in BIOS is stuck hard at 48, no lower. I enter a lower value and it resets to 48 right before my eyes. I would love to be able to tune this as it seems high.
> 
> tRTP is set to 12 in the BIOS which is the lowest it can be set and behaves like tWR above but at 12. Still, even at 12 in the BIOS it shows as 17 in ASR Timing Configurator.
> 
> If anyone could please explain or even cure, if possible, this behavior I would be very appreciative.
> 
> Thank you.


Change tWR back to auto, you control tWR via tWRPRE and tWRPDEN. tWRPDEN sets tWR, then set tWRPRE to either same or 1 less than tWRPDEN.

For example, set tWR auto, set tWRPRE to 69 or 70, set tWRPDEN to 70, boot back up and see where tWR is. Then lower tWR as desired by lowering tWRPRE and tWRPDEN (lowering tWRPDEN by 6 will lower TWR by 6).

If you change tCWL will change tWR, so set tCWL where you want it first.

tRTP cant be set lower than 12. Not sure why showing up as 17, maybe some software bug based on frequency base/clock using, see what memtweakit shows.


----------



## Balaned

Thank you, will do this.

EDIT: Worked great! Thx again.


----------



## Neur0Mortis

OCing the DDR5 on my board (Z690 Formula) seems to suck, so had to get a little creative. Focused on bumping the BCLK & stabilizing to tweak to 50.8ns. Using 2 sticks of the TridentZ 6400 CL32, I can't seem to get them to boot over 6400 at all so OCing was a no-go. And then, any adjustment to the BCLK doesn't allow the RAM to boot at stock speeds, so needed to bump the V and lower the clocks a bit _(but at least i could make up for it a little with timings)_. Bottom line. . . I suck at memory tuning.


----------



## asdkj1740

Neur0Mortis said:


> OCing the DDR5 on my board (Z690 Formula) seems to suck, so had to get a little creative. Focused on bumping the BCLK & stabilizing to tweak to 50.8ns. Using 2 sticks of the TridentZ 6400 CL32, I can't seem to get them to boot over 6400 at all so OCing was a no-go. And then, any adjustment to the BCLK doesn't allow the RAM to boot at stock speeds, so needed to bump the V and lower the clocks a bit _(but at least i could make up for it a little with timings)_. Bottom line. . . I suck at memory tuning.
> View attachment 2551753


bclk oc messes up aida64 benchamark.


----------



## db000

Neur0Mortis said:


> OCing the DDR5 on my board (Z690 Formula) seems to suck, so had to get a little creative. Focused on bumping the BCLK & stabilizing to tweak to 50.8ns. Using 2 sticks of the TridentZ 6400 CL32, I can't seem to get them to boot over 6400 at all so OCing was a no-go. And then, any adjustment to the BCLK doesn't allow the RAM to boot at stock speeds, so needed to bump the V and lower the clocks a bit _(but at least i could make up for it a little with timings)_. Bottom line. . . I suck at memory tuning.
> View attachment 2551753


Stick with BCLK at 100 because of Aida latency bug(shows results way better then they actually are). If you still wanna tune this, do this last.
Get your self at stable CPU OC first, ex. 5GHz and 4/4.3GHz ring(cache). With E-cores off, ring(cache) 4.7GHz or a tad bit higher usually no issue. Then tune memory, you wanna do this so you can more easily narrow the issue down, so you dont hunt RAM errors when you have ex. cpu oc/cache errors or other way around. Look at other posts here for guidelines of voltages for SA, MC, VDD, VDDQ and VDDQ TX. Upper and lower values for primary, secondary and tertiary timings. Change one setting and try again.

.... and let it take time!  Have patience 
Hope this helps!
Good luck and happy tuning!


----------



## bscool

Has anyone else made a bug report to Aida64? I looked over the forum a bit and didnt see one so i made a post.






BCLK overclock on ADL


Can anything be done to get accurate results on Alderlake when OCing BCLK? It give inaccurate results on both DDR4 and DDR5 Video showing result. Not my system. But latency is actually in the 48 to 50ns range RWC are also about double what they actually are.



forums.aida64.com





Maybe more people can post feedback so they look into it.


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> Has anyone else made a bug report to Aida64? I looked over the forum a bit and didnt see one so i made a post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BCLK overclock on ADL
> 
> 
> Can anything be done to get accurate results on Alderlake when OCing BCLK? It give inaccurate results on both DDR4 and DDR5 Video showing result. Not my system. But latency is actually in the 48 to 50ns range RWC are also about double what they actually are.
> 
> 
> 
> forums.aida64.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe more people can post feedback so they look into it.


FinalWire Staff left a message yesterday to my video about aida64 bclk bug.

[FinalWire Staff message]
You were using an old version of AIDA64 that didn't yet include full support for Alder Lake. We recommend you to use the latest AIDA64 beta on Alder Lake: Download AIDA64 Extreme (beta) 6.60.5933 (ZIP) | AIDA64 Also, it's not clear whether any sandboxing was used in the video. We recommend disabling both Hyper-V and Memory Integrity to get accurate benchmark results. Best Regards: FinalWire Staff

[My reply]
I always use the most recent aida at that time. This was recorded sometime ago and the newest aida still has bclk bug performance.


----------



## DanGleeballs

delete


----------



## Nizzen

Neur0Mortis said:


> OCing the DDR5 on my board (Z690 Formula) seems to suck, so had to get a little creative. Focused on bumping the BCLK & stabilizing to tweak to 50.8ns. Using 2 sticks of the TridentZ 6400 CL32, I can't seem to get them to boot over 6400 at all so OCing was a no-go. And then, any adjustment to the BCLK doesn't allow the RAM to boot at stock speeds, so needed to bump the V and lower the clocks a bit _(but at least i could make up for it a little with timings)_. Bottom line. . . I suck at memory tuning.
> View attachment 2551753


Try 6200/6400 c28, max trefi, trfc 280-300, and just tune the timings tight. Pretty good performance in 6200 tight timings


----------



## Neur0Mortis

asdkj1740 said:


> bclk oc messes up aida64 benchamark.


Could you elaborate? Also, any recommended alternatives? I've been using AIDA as a quick bench to see changes based on adjustments to the timings/clocks, but if there's a more accurate methodology I'd love to know more. Using TestMem5 with @anta777's config for testing the stability _(well, that and Vanguard. . . because that game's finicky when a CPU or mem OC isn't stable - lol)._


----------



## bscool

Neur0Mortis said:


> Could you elaborate? Also, any recommended alternatives? I've been using AIDA as a quick bench to see changes based on adjustments to the timings/clocks, but if there's a more accurate methodology I'd love to know more. Using TestMem5 with @anta777's config for testing the stability _(well, that and Vanguard. . . because that game's finicky when a CPU or mem OC isn't stable - lol)._


Use this to get more accurate results with bclk OC.









Release IMLCGui v1.0.1 · FarisR99/IMLCGui


Force dark theme Make the quick bandwidth text box read-only Only create config file on save




github.com





Here I compared IML using bclk oc and it is much more accurate then aida when using bclk oc.






BCLK overclock on ADL


Can anything be done to get accurate results on Alderlake when OCing BCLK? It give inaccurate results on both DDR4 and DDR5 Video showing result. Not my system. But latency is actually in the 48 to 50ns range RWC are also about double what they actually are.



forums.aida64.com


----------



## centvalny

Gskll 6400 out of the box with Pentium


----------



## Lord Alzov

centvalny said:


> Gskll 6400 out of the box with Pentium


My gskill 6400 dont want 7000+ stable( with bin CPU.
6666 cl30 t1.


----------



## centvalny

Lord Alzov said:


> My gskill 6400 dont want 7000+ stable( with bin CPU.
> 6666 cl30 t1.


My 12900k es imc need at least 15c cold to go 7466C32+


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I put the MO-RA on the patio to cool down the water temp.


----------



## Mappi75

Sorry, wrong thread.


----------



## Mappi75

opt33 said:


> Change tWR back to auto, you control tWR via tWRPRE and tWRPDEN. tWRPDEN sets tWR, then set tWRPRE to either same or 1 less than tWRPDEN.
> 
> For example, set tWR auto, set tWRPRE to 69 or 70, set tWRPDEN to 70, boot back up and see where tWR is. Then lower tWR as desired by lowering tWRPRE and tWRPDEN (lowering tWRPDEN by 6 will lower TWR by 6).
> 
> If you change tCWL will change tWR, so set tCWL where you want it first.
> 
> tRTP cant be set lower than 12. Not sure why showing up as 17, maybe some software bug based on frequency base/clock using, see what memtweakit shows.


Thank you, i set manually

tCWL = 32 (first)

tWRPRE = 69
tWRPDEN = 70

= tWR (AUTO) = 30

i want to reach 24

so i have to lower

tWRPRE = 69 - 6 = 63
tWRPDEN = 70 - 6 = 64

i have to change them *both* ?
or did i have to lower only tWRPDEN by 6 ?
sorry its not clear to me ^^

Edit:

is set

tWRPRE = 69 - 6 = 63
tWRPDEN = 70 - 6 = 64

= tWR (AUTO) = 24

so it looks right to change both values.

PS: maybe someone can confirm?


----------



## sugi0lover

Mappi75 said:


> Thank you, i set manually
> 
> tCWL = 32 (first)
> 
> tWRPRE = 69
> tWRPDEN = 70
> 
> = tWR (AUTO) = 30
> 
> i want to reach 24
> 
> so i have to lower
> 
> tWRPRE = 69 - 6 = 63
> tWRPDEN = 70 - 6 = 64
> 
> i have to change them *both* ?
> or did i have to lower only tWRPDEN by 6 ?
> sorry its not clear to me ^^
> 
> Edit:
> 
> is set
> 
> tWRPRE = 69 - 6 = 63
> tWRPDEN = 70 - 6 = 64
> 
> = tWR (AUTO) = 24
> 
> so it looks right to change both values.
> 
> PS: maybe someone can confirm?


*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
Read this and some posts followed by this~


----------



## GtiJason

Decided to really challenge myself. Below average mem controller, weak Samsung IC Adata Lancer kit and 2021 Apex.
The challenge is real, goal is 7k and not looking promising


----------



## sugi0lover

My system changes RTL based on E cores on/off.


----------



## Mappi75

sugi0lover said:


> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> Read this and some posts followed by this~



Sorry its more confusing (english is not my native language). 
It seems there are different ways..


----------



## bscool

Mappi75 said:


> Sorry its more confusing (english is not my native language).
> It seems there are different ways..


Why not just set twr?

Asus calculated it for you setting the other automatically to the formula @sugi0lover posted.

What is the benefit of setting the other ones manually?

It ends up the same doesnt it? At least when I tested it did but I figure since people set them there is something I am missing or they do it because they have always done it so they keep doing it.

As far as I know on MSI people set them like was posted because MSI wont allow setting TWR below a certain value otherwise.


----------



## opt33

Like bscool said asus bios made it more convenient by allowing to set tWR directly (bios then correctly sets tWRPRE and tWRPDEN). If on MSI, the only way to go below jedec standard tWR 48 is to control tWR via tWRPRE and tWRPDEN.


----------



## Mappi75

ok thanks - i thought it was for asus too.. then i will set it manually.


----------



## Lord Alzov

geriatricpollywog said:


> I put the MO-RA on the patio to cool down the water temp.
> 
> View attachment 2551858


Try T1 6600+


----------



## ObviousCough

It has taken me forever to find the time to do proper testing so i could reach a proper conclusion:* My APEX *is junk. Memory slot A can't do better than 6600 stable while B has no problem sailing all the way up to 7400. Doing 6600 in dual channel isn't happening.

I tried 4 cpus and streamed 3.


----------



## truehighroller1

ObviousCough said:


> It has taken me forever to find the time to do proper testing so i could reach a proper conclusion:* My APEX *is junk. Memory slot A can't do better than 6600 stable while B has no problem sailing all the way up to 7400. Doing 6600 in dual channel isn't happening.
> 
> I tried 4 cpus and streamed 3.



I'm sure this is your fault somehow. 🤣 Thanks for posting this and taking the time to do this comparison. I just really really, hope that the replacement motherboard they send me is better than my original motherboard I'm rmaing through them.


----------



## ObviousCough

idk if i want to RMA this turd. I'm already down $820 USD. Now I have to spend more money because ASUS can't properly do a QC? This was actually literally their last opportunity with me. I used to only buy ASUS boards, and i always had little issues. That was like 15 years ago though. Doesn't seem like anything has changed.


----------



## truehighroller1

ObviousCough said:


> idk if i want to RMA this turd. I'm already down $820 USD. Now I have to spend more money because ASUS can't properly do a QC? This was actually literally their last opportunity with me. I used to only buy ASUS boards, and i always had little issues. That was like 15 years ago though. Doesn't seem like anything has changed.


Yeah, I'm cringing thinking about shelling out the money from my account for probably two weeks while they wait on my board to reach them and the fact that they could just send me another turd. I'm rolling the dice though. Wish me luck.


----------



## affxct

GtiJason said:


> Decided to really challenge myself. Below average mem controller, weak Samsung IC Adata Lancer kit and 2021 Apex.
> The challenge is real, goal is 7k and not looking promising
> 
> View attachment 2551895


No way, you also pulled Samsung Lancer's? Yeah these are f***ing awful.


----------



## marco.is.not.80

centvalny said:


> Im a member since 2004 and never had any problem with anyone here @ ocn. I dont want to start something with you. Please be nice or shut up


I really wish they would just ban this trolling joker once and for all. This incredibly valuable thread is littered with his toxic puke. Why is this allowed? 

EDIT: I didn't realize you can actually tell the site to ignore people - just found the link off the username - thank god - wow - insta thread cleanup.


----------



## marco.is.not.80

bscool said:


> Use this to get more accurate results with bclk OC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Release IMLCGui v1.0.1 · FarisR99/IMLCGui
> 
> 
> Force dark theme Make the quick bandwidth text box read-only Only create config file on save
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here I compared IML using bclk oc and it is much more accurate then aida when using bclk oc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BCLK overclock on ADL
> 
> 
> Can anything be done to get accurate results on Alderlake when OCing BCLK? It give inaccurate results on both DDR4 and DDR5 Video showing result. Not my system. But latency is actually in the 48 to 50ns range RWC are also about double what they actually are.
> 
> 
> 
> forums.aida64.com


Wow, thanks for this tool - I didn't realize it even existed and just downloaded it. If you get the one from Intel's site you will need to gunzip it first and then untar it - for some reason the .tgz format is not liking "tar -xvzf <filename>" and I had to first "gunzip <filename>" and then "tar xvf <filename>"...


----------



## asdkj1740

Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | igor'sLAB


What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…




www.igorslab.de




*Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings*


----------



## asdkj1740

asdkj1740 said:


> Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings*


send the like to skullbringer!


while my cpu needs ~1.44v to run prime95 avx2 sfft without freezing/black or blue screen. that guys got lots of >90sp cpu............


----------



## 7empe

Weeks of chasing for y-cruncher stable 6800 with my Apex 11/2021. Not sure where's the bottleneck - board or CPU... no matter of voltages, timings, prayers, I can't do 6800 boot-to-boot stable. 

The highest I can go for 24/7 stable is 6733 30-39-39-30 tight. I will daily this for now.

Vdd=Vddq=VddqTx 1.52V
SA 1.1V
MC 1.32V










Cheers!


----------



## ObviousCough

I took my non-defective memory slot for a spin today


----------



## truehighroller1

ObviousCough said:


> I took my non-defective memory slot for a spin today



I'm still trying to get asus to take care of me. Actually, I'm on the phone with them right now!




Your rtl is off by one though on that slot I see. I'm starting to wonder if this has something to do with the issues with the bad batches at some level as I keep seeing the same thing with people who're having issues like us.


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for the info~ The other 7200 CL30 OC except the last one was done at mode2, so I can compare RTL from ASROCK TIMING CONFIGURATOR. For the reference, it's the below.
> Mode 1 : *63*/57/63/58
> Mode 2 : *62*/57/63/58


When you use the frasing "for some reason Mode 1 is more stable than mode 2 " it seems like you dont understand the difference between Mode 1 and Mode 2


----------



## truehighroller1

Carillo said:


> When you use the frasing "for some reason Mode 1 is more stable than mode 2 " it seems like you dont understand the difference between Mode 1 and Mode 2


Then explain it to them.


----------



## Carillo

truehighroller1 said:


> Then explain it to them.


Them ? Risers? Or do you mean menstruating men( truehighroller1) ?


----------



## truehighroller1

Carillo said:


> Them ? Risers? Or do you mean menstruating men( truehighroller1) ?


Okay. Helpful none trolling at it's finest. True scholar and gentleman.


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> When you use the frasing "for some reason Mode 1 is more stable than mode 2 " it seems like you dont understand the difference between Mode 1 and Mode 2


Actually, I don't understand it clearly. From my experience with DDR4, mode 2 gave me better performance than mode 1.
So, I have always used mode 2 for OC even with DDR5.
This time with DDR5, I changed from mode 2 to mode 1 and saw no performance difference at all, but more stable mode 1.
RTL/IOL doesn't change bet. mode 1 and 2. RTL/IOL changes according to e cores on/off based on my system.
It may not apply to every system, but at least my system is like that.


----------



## borant

7empe said:


> Weeks of chasing for y-cruncher stable 6800 with my Apex 11/2021. Not sure where's the bottleneck - board or CPU... no matter of voltages, timings, prayers, I can't do 6800 boot-to-boot stable.
> 
> The highest I can go for 24/7 stable is 6733 30-39-39-30 tight. I will daily this for now.


I have a similar issue with 6800C32 and 6600C30 1T when all memory test tools report stability but in 24/7 use it may BSOD or just restart during game. The only true stability in my case is with 6400C28 1T.
I suspect the issue is related to FPU operations and y-cruncher could be capturing these since it is using FP in calculations. For me y-cruncher is just a quick test, most times I see failures after at least 40 minutes or even 1hour+ of continuous test in AIDA64 with 4 options selected together: CPU+FPU+cache+memory.
Can you try it with your 6733 2T config?


----------



## 7empe

borant said:


> I have a similar issue with 6800C32 and 6600C30 1T when all memory test tools report stability but in 24/7 use it may BSOD or just restart during game. The only true stability in my case is with 6400C28 1T.
> I suspect the issue is related to FPU operations and y-cruncher could be capturing these since it is using FP in calculations. For me y-cruncher is just a quick test, most times I see failures after at least 40 minutes or even 1hour+ of continuous test in AIDA64 with 4 options selected together: CPU+FPU+cache+memory.
> Can you try it with your 6733 2T config?


Yes, I tried it. It was stable for 2.5 hour and did not run AIDA longer. I had the same issue as you, could not run 6600c30 2T stable before in y-cruncher while all the memtests like TM5 runs without errors at even 7000c30! Then I switched to Kharhu with FPU stress enabled and got errors in seconds. I learned two things:

vcore was too low - even if it was perfectly stable in y-cruncher at 6400c30, it was too low for 6600c30+ In addition my p-cores SP is 97 and ASUS AI suggests 5300 heavy. I’ve been running 5200 heavy BUT the true stability limit for heavy avx seems to be around 5180.
many, many times during my OC journey when error in memtest was spotted I got a black screen for a second or graphical artifacts in windows - I thought it is related to Nvidia driver corruption due to unstable memory. No WHEA errors. BUT when I started to move from 6666 up with BCLK then once I noticed PCIE/DMI errors counted in thousands - memtest stable in the same time! I tried to play with PCIE settings in runtime to stop the errors and what worked was disabling PCIE/DMI spread spectrum that was enabled on Auto. Disabling it stopped the errors immediately. Since then no more graphical corruption even when unstable.

7333c30 is stable with FPU computations. What’s funny is that this is very tight profile with timings taken from 6666c30 And higher cache frequency of 4343 MHz than without BCLK OC and just 6800c30! So cache is not a problem, but yes i tried ram OC on stock cpu too.

The pure 6800c30 was sometimes stable in ycruncher with the same timings! I tried to stabilize it for weeks because when one boot was totally fine (I could run even prime95 112k stable) I thought that it’s my fault if unstable cause hardware is capable of running this…
I tried even 6800c34-42-42-102…


----------



## affxct

If two DIMMs boot a higher frequency when in a specific order (one in A2, the other in B2), is that objectively the best DIMM positioning, or could you maybe find stabilizing lower frequencies easier if they were swapped around?


----------



## db000

Since last post, a few new changes.

6400CL32 sticks now watercooled.
CPU All-Core 5.0 -> 5.2GHz (E-cores disabled)
Cache 4.0 -> 4.7GHz

After hours and hours of dealing with thrown errors 25-30minutes in TM5 Extreme. It's now fixed and passed multiple TM5 Extreme runs back to back and reboot to reboot. 

Freq 6600-30-40-40-30-360-2T
SA 1.10
MC 1.31250
VDD 1.52
VDDQ 1.52
VDDQ TX 1.52

Almost sub 50ns!  I'll keep going


----------



## SuperMumrik

db000 said:


> Almost sub 50ns!


You can do this! With "only" 1.51vdd you are still far away from what I consider danger territory for water cooled dimms😅


----------



## db000

SuperMumrik said:


> You can do this! With "only" 1.51vdd you are still far away from what I consider danger territory for water cooled dimms😅


Thank you! Giving me energy  It a "work in progress" for sure!


----------



## SuperMumrik

db000 said:


> Thank you! Giving me energy  It a "work in progress" for sure!


Keep it up! What dimm block is that?


----------



## db000

SuperMumrik said:


> Keep it up! What dimm block is that?


Bitspower 2DIMM Block
(BP-WBDM2AC-IRD)
I bought it from PPCS
(Bitspower Galaxy Freezer DIMM2 RAM Liquid Cooling Block - Ice Red)

And copper heat spreaders are from Bartxstore.








Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com





We are still in contact about a black(acetal)/copper 2DIMM Block. But I'll use this until I can get that other one  Bartx needs to manufacture it.


----------



## SuperMumrik

db000 said:


> And copper heat spreaders are from Bartxstore


Been considering those, but I wish they could make a nickel plated version. Still using my nickel EK Monarch heatspreaders with EK x2


----------



## borant

7empe said:


> Yes, I tried it. It was stable for 2.5 hour and did not run AIDA longer. I had the same issue as you, could not run 6600c30 2T stable before in y-cruncher while all the memtests like TM5 runs without errors at even 7000c30! Then I switched to Kharhu with FPU stress enabled and got errors in seconds. I learned two things:
> 
> vcore was too low - even if it was perfectly stable in y-cruncher at 6400c30, it was too low for 6600c30+ In addition my p-cores SP is 97 and ASUS AI suggests 5300 heavy. I’ve been running 5200 heavy BUT the true stability limit for heavy avx seems to be around 5180.
> many, many times during my OC journey when error in memtest was spotted I got a black screen for a second or graphical artifacts in windows - I thought it is related to Nvidia driver corruption due to unstable memory. No WHEA errors. BUT when I started to move from 6666 up with BCLK then once I noticed PCIE/DMI errors counted in thousands - memtest stable in the same time! I tried to play with PCIE settings in runtime to stop the errors and what worked was disabling PCIE/DMI spread spectrum that was enabled on Auto. Disabling it stopped the errors immediately. Since then no more graphical corruption even when unstable.
> 
> 7333c30 is stable with FPU computations. What’s funny is that this is very tight profile with timings taken from 6666c30 And higher cache frequency of 4343 MHz than without BCLK OC and just 6800c30! So cache is not a problem, but yes i tried ram OC on stock cpu too.
> 
> The pure 6800c30 was sometimes stable in ycruncher with the same timings! I tried to stabilize it for weeks because when one boot was totally fine (I could run even prime95 112k stable) I thought that it’s my fault if unstable cause hardware is capable of running this…
> I tried even 6800c34-42-42-102…


I got the same SP and 5300 heavy sometimes power limit throttled, I saw 260A in HWinfo so real spikes could be reaching 280 A Iccmax. 
What voltage did you find for 7333? My 12900KS is out for delivery and I may run another round with it. 
Another thought is that if BLCK helps with stabilizing then we may be dealing with RF interference at higher RAM frequencies and is it really worth spending time with it. 
With tight timings it is always about the same speed under 50 ns and a few percent of extra bandwidth probably make no difference in applications:


----------



## snakeeyes111

borant said:


> My 12900KS


KS? Cant buy it in Germany.


----------



## borant

snakeeyes111 said:


> KS?


Yes, "Keep Spending" 
BX8071512900KSP5


----------



## Arni90

Carillo said:


> When you use the frasing "for some reason Mode 1 is more stable than mode 2 " it seems like you dont understand the difference between Mode 1 and Mode 2


Aren't the modes simply training different subtimings and RTLs?
And don't respond by calling people idiots or crybabies, explain why they're wrong.


----------



## fortecosi

Arni90 said:


> Aren't the modes simply training different subtimings and RTLs?
> And don't respond by calling people idiots or crybabies, explain why they're wrong.


It´s somewhere in this thread, basically:
Mode 1 = for better memory compatibility 
Mode 2 = for better memory performance


----------



## 7empe

It's time to start all over again.
Nothing had sense before so I re-sat & re-paste my cpu.

Starting again from scratch with my G.Skill 6400.

6666 C30-39-39-30 very tight.

IMC 1.20
SA 0.95 (CPU default)
VDD 1.49
VDDq 1.40
VDDqTx 1.20
P-Cores 5.2 GHz
E-Cores 4.1 GHz
Ring 4.2 GHz
Vcore die-sense under y-cruncher load 1.25V, manual BIOS VID set to 1.33V LLC 4.
Stable at every condition.


----------



## 7empe

Fast progress to the next frequency bin.
6800 C30-39-39-30.

IMC 1.25 #possibly can go lower towards 1.20; it was my blind shot when progressing from 6666.
SA 0.95 (CPU default)
VDD 1.53 #possibly can go with 1.52, but not lower with these timings.
VDDq 1.50 #can go with 1.49, but don't want to be on the margin.
VDDqTx 1.50 #can't go lower otherwise y-cruncher screams
P-Cores 5.1 GHz #downtick from the 5.2 due to heavy prime95 testing;
E-Cores 4.1 GHz
Ring 4.2 GHz
Vcore die-sense under y-cruncher load 1.20V, manual BIOS VID set to 1.29V LLC 4.


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> Fast progress to the next frequency bin.
> 6800 C30-39-39-30.
> 
> IMC 1.25 #possibly can go lower towards 1.20; it was my blind shot when progressing from 6666.
> SA 0.95 (CPU default)
> VDD 1.53 #possibly can go with 1.52, but not lower with these timings.
> VDDq 1.50 #can go with 1.49, but don't want to be on the margin.
> VDDqTx 1.50 #can't go lower otherwise y-cruncher screams
> P-Cores 5.1 GHz #downtick from the 5.2 due to heavy prime95 testing;
> E-Cores 4.1 GHz
> Ring 4.2 GHz
> Vcore die-sense under y-cruncher load 1.20V, manual BIOS VID set to 1.29V LLC 4.
> 
> View attachment 2552203



So, you're saying reseating your cpu fixed everything? I reseated mine four times and nothing. Asus is saying they still can't send me an advanced replacement because of lack of stock. Going on day seven now and nothing from them helpful.


----------



## 7empe

Reseating helped me along with avoiding tons of mistakes I did before according to cache, e-cores, voltages, and so on. ADL is the most complex beast for OCing so far. Thankfully humans can educate on own mistakes. Experience.


----------



## truehighroller1

7empe said:


> Reseating helped me along with avoiding tons of mistakes I did before according to cache, e-cores, voltages, and so on. ADL is the most complex beast for OCing so far. Thankfully humans can educate on own mistakes. Experience.



I just feel like someone sent you one too no offense. lol Because reseating mine four times different cpus and memory didn't help me that's all. Ahh f it I'm screwed and Asus won't help f it. This is so disgusting at this point man. Glad you fixed your issues...


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> I just feel like someone sent you one too no offense. lol Because reseating mine four times different cpus and memory didn't help me that's all. Ahh f it I'm screwed and Asus won't help f it. This is so disgusting at this point man. Glad you fixed your issues...


Just out of curiosity what are your expectations and what steps do you take when tunning your memory?


----------



## 7empe

truehighroller1 said:


> I just feel like someone sent you one too no offense. lol Because reseating mine four times different cpus and memory didn't help me that's all. Ahh f it I'm screwed and Asus won't help f it. This is so disgusting at this point man. Glad you fixed your issues...


If I would have to replace the mobo, I would go for evga dark this time. No chance of getting it in Europe though. Fortunately a hardware defect or bottleneck is not in my case as I thought it is. Neither cpu IMC nor the board is limiting my ddr frequency.


----------



## truehighroller1

CptSpig said:


> Just out of curiosity what are your expectations and what steps do you take when tunning your memory?



I tried all voltages up and down and can't get past 5800 stable at stock timings. I expect 6600 stable at least like advertised.

I bought three different cpus and three different memory kits all to no avail no difference what so ever. Turned this option off that option on that option off. I literally have buildzoid's mother board reincarnated.

I know how to overclock, I'm not a nube. Been doing it since dip switches on slot adapters and lead traces. This thing is borked.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> I tried all voltages up and down and can't get past 5800 stable at stock timings. I expect 6600 stable at least like advertised.


What memory kit do you have and what's your overclock on you CPU? Also is your build in a case and what are you using for cooling?


----------



## truehighroller1

CptSpig said:


> What memory kit do you have and what's your overclock on you CPU? Also is your build in a case and what are you using for cooling?



Stock CPU no overclock so I wouldn't have issues there until memory was situated. Team force 6400. Custom external four radiators two pumps. Thermaltake View 71. Gpu is water cooled as is CPU fan on memory. Max memory temp 51C full hard load for hour and half of testing tm5 absolut when stable at 5800..


----------



## truehighroller1

Delete dup my bad.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> I know how to overclock, I'm not a nube. Been doing it since dip switches on slot adapters and lead traces. This thing is borked.


I know you are not a nube (Noob) I remember you from the X299 thread with JP and the gang! This new platform has lots of growing pains.


----------



## CptSpig

truehighroller1 said:


> Stock CPU no overclock so I wouldn't have issues there until memory was situated. Team force 6400. Custom external four radiators two pumps. Thermaltake View 71. Gpu is water cooled as is CPU fan on memory. Max memory temp 51C full hard load for hour and half of testing tm5 absolut when stable at 5800..


Something to try. Clear c'mos boot into bios F5 set fan speeds if you use Qfan and boot menu changes. Disable fast boot. Now set memory frequency to 6400 and set voltages to 1.4v VDD, VDDQ and VDDQX. Also set sync all PMIC's. Leave primary timings at 40-40-40-76. Boot into windows.


----------



## Nizzen

What is worse: Nube or Noob 😆


----------



## 7empe

6933 30-39-39-30.
Voltages not optimized yet. tRDRD_sg may work at 11.
TM5, Karhu and y-cruncher stable.

IMC 1.35
SA 0.95 (CPU default)
VDD 1.55
VDDq 1.52
VDDqTx 1.55
P-Cores 5.1 GHz #downtick from the 5.2 due to heavy prime95 testing;
E-Cores 4.1 GHz
Ring 4.2 GHz
Vcore die-sense under y-cruncher load 1.20V, manual BIOS VID set to 1.29V LLC 4.


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend got another TeamGroup 6200 CL38 kit and oced to stable 7200 CL32.
: Considering the clock, the voltage is low.
: CL30 is not stable even with higher voltages.


CPU : 12900K (SP103)
DRAM: TeamGroup 6200 C38 1.25v
OC : 7200-32-42-42-28-340
M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
Voltages : SA 1.05v / MC 1.325 / VDD 1.5 / VDDQ 1.5v / VPP Auto /VDDQ TX auto


----------



## matique

whoah that indeed is very low. I need 1.59v for 7000c30 stable everything.


----------



## KedarWolf

sugi0lover said:


> My friend got another TeamGroup 6200 CL38 kit and oced to stable 7200 CL32.
> : Considering the clock, the voltage is low.
> : CL30 is not stable even with higher voltages.
> 
> 
> CPU : 12900K (SP103)
> DRAM: TeamGroup 6200 C38 1.25v
> OC : 7200-32-42-42-28-340
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
> Voltages : SA 1.05v / MC 1.325 / VDD 1.5 / VDDQ 1.5v / VPP Auto /VDDQ TX auto
> 
> View attachment 2552268


For a long time now, Apex boards have the best boards for memory overclocking, going as far back as Z390, maybe older.


----------



## Falkentyne

7empe said:


> 6933 30-39-39-30.
> Voltages not optimized yet. tRDRD_sg may work at 11.
> TM5, Karhu and y-cruncher stable.
> 
> IMC 1.35
> SA 0.95 (CPU default)
> VDD 1.55
> VDDq 1.52
> VDDqTx 1.55
> P-Cores 5.1 GHz #downtick from the 5.2 due to heavy prime95 testing;
> E-Cores 4.1 GHz
> Ring 4.2 GHz
> Vcore die-sense under y-cruncher load 1.20V, manual BIOS VID set to 1.29V LLC 4.
> 
> View attachment 2552265


Your load voltage can't be correct. Your vdroop is far too tight for LLC4.
I set 1.41v set + LLC4 and get 1.190v in benchmate Pi 2.5b. If you set 1.290v, you should be somewhere around 1.14v....


----------



## affxct

Is there an actual technical reason as to why JEDEC specified a 1.435V limit for DDR5? I'm working on a 1.45V daily and I'm wondering if there's any merit to dropping the voltage for long term use.


----------



## ldt

sugi0lover said:


> My friend got another TeamGroup 6200 CL38 kit and oced to stable 7200 CL32.
> : Considering the clock, the voltage is low.
> : CL30 is not stable even with higher voltages.
> 
> 
> CPU : 12900K (SP103)
> DRAM: TeamGroup 6200 C38 1.25v
> OC : 7200-32-42-42-28-340
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 9902
> Voltages : SA 1.05v / MC 1.325 / VDD 1.5 / VDDQ 1.5v / VPP Auto /VDDQ TX auto
> 
> View attachment 2552268


can you give me the link where I can download BIOS 9902. Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> Is there an actual technical reason as to why JEDEC specified a 1.435V limit for DDR5? I'm working on a 1.45V daily and I'm wondering if there's any merit to dropping the voltage for long term use.


Maybe temperature. It need to work in most systems, even in cases with low ventilation.
My guess


----------



## sugi0lover

ldt said:


> can you give me the link where I can download BIOS 9902. Thanks


Here it is!
ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-9902.zip


----------



## 7empe

Falkentyne said:


> Your load voltage can't be correct. Your vdroop is far too tight for LLC4.
> I set 1.41v set + LLC4 and get 1.190v in benchmate Pi 2.5b. If you set 1.290v, you should be somewhere around 1.14v....


It is manual svid, not vrm voltage. Vrm is at 1.37 idle (ac_ll 0.32, dc_ll 0.98 for LLC4).


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> Maybe temperature. It need to work in most systems, even in cases with low ventilation.
> My guess


Not a bad guess at all, I'm just wondering why 1.435V in specific. I'm still wondering if the 1.4-1.5V XMP's are ES' of our current ICs or if they're an entirely different generation. My one stick of F5-6000U3636 died and I still to this day don't know why or what the voltage cap for S16B is. Luumi said something like 1.65V. Dammit I really just want to be able to jam 1.6V into my Lancer's, get 6600C30 or something and just be done with it 😫.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> Not a bad guess at all, I'm just wondering why 1.435V in specific. I'm still wondering if the 1.4-1.5V XMP's are ES' of our current ICs or if they're an entirely different generation. My one stick of F5-6000U3636 died and I still to this day don't know why or what the voltage cap for S16B is. Luumi said something like 1.65V. Dammit I really just want to be able to jam 1.6V into my Lancer's, get 6600C30 or something and just be done with it 😫.


I'm running around 1.6v with watercooled dell Hynix now. Ran 1.55v for years with ddr4 b-die, and they aren't dead yet. We are benchmarking with 1.8v+ on air, and no harm done. So why should DDR5 die of a bit over 1.4v? My very educated guess is that up to 1.7v COOLED DDR5 samsung or Hynix doesn't matter, until anything else is proven the other way  I think temperature is the key here, not "voltage."
PS: My dell don't like more than 1.55v VDDQ, so it has it's own limitation. VDD 1.7v is no problem on my dell, but it don't scale more than 1.65 or so.


----------



## opt33

affxct said:


> Is there an actual technical reason as to why JEDEC specified a 1.435V limit for DDR5? I'm working on a 1.45V daily and I'm wondering if there's any merit to dropping the voltage for long term use.


JEDEC standards change over time via updates as higher speeds achievable. Prior update to 6400mhz, most recent update includes speeds up to 8533. So either plans are for 8533 at 1.435v or more likely additional voltage steps added.


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> I'm running around 1.6v with watercooled dell Hynix now. Ran 1.55v for years with ddr4 b-die, and they aren't dead yet. We are benchmarking with 1.8v+ on air, and no harm done. So why should DDR5 die of a bit over 1.4v? My very educated guess is that up to 1.7v COOLED DDR5 samsung or Hynix doesn't matter, until anything else is proven the other way  I think temperature is the key here, not "voltage."
> PS: My dell don't like more than 1.55v VDDQ, so it has it's own limitation. VDD 1.7v is no problem on my dell, but it don't scale more than 1.65 or so.


I used to have that mentality but I don't know what killed my stick. Temps weren't high either and it died during MRC. Someone else's S16B kit also seemed to die at I believe he said 1.4V. Can't recall. My sticks usually idle between 33-38c and TM5 at around 54c (SPD Hub). Speaking of that, it's so annoying they don't give us chip-specific temperature readings like with D4.


----------



## affxct

opt33 said:


> JEDEC standards change over time via updates as higher speeds achievable. Prior update to 6400mhz, most recent update includes speeds up to 8533. So either plans are for 8533 at 1.435v or more likely additional voltage steps added.


You don't find 1.435V oddly specific? I just wonder why not 1.45V, or arbitrarily 1.5V. If it was a heat thing then why would 1.45V be any more harsh than 1.435 in practice. I'd somewhat understand if they made it 1.425V. I just think there's more to it. I guess what I'm hoping for is that someone with industry contacts has the answer and is willing to provide the technical reason. I doubt it's sensitive info, but very useful nonetheless.


----------



## opt33

affxct said:


> You don't find 1.435V oddly specific? I just wonder why not 1.45V, or arbitrarily 1.5V. If it was a heat thing then why would 1.45V be any more harsh than 1.435 in practice. I'd somewhat understand if they made it 1.425V. I just think there's more to it. I guess what I'm hoping for is that someone with industry contacts has the answer and is willing to provide the technical reason. I doubt it's sensitive info, but very useful nonetheless.


You are looking for degradation curves and that wont be published and those that know have NDA's.

And 1.435v would have been the lowest voltage required for the majority of tested DRAM from multiple vendors to achieve the specified JEDEC frequency with a guardband for the worst-case process variation to operate without errors under the worst-case (high temp) operating conditions....as many white papers state how voltages for given frequency are chosen. 

But just like voltages/frequency went up for ddr4, same for ddr5 over time. And if 1.45 kills some ram, 1.435 wouldnt have saved it, just a bad sample that died.


----------



## affxct

opt33 said:


> You are looking for degradation curves and that wont be published and those that know have NDA's.
> 
> And 1.435v would have been the lowest voltage required for the majority of tested DRAM from multiple vendors to achieve the specified JEDEC frequency with a guardband for the worst-case process variation to operate without errors under the worst-case (high temp) operating conditions....as many white papers state how voltages for given frequency are chosen.
> 
> But just like voltages/frequency went up for ddr4, same for ddr5 over time. And if 1.45 kills some ram, 1.435 wouldnt have saved it, just a bad sample that died.


That's actually a really awesome explanation.


----------



## 7empe

A word on how at least ASUS switches between *normal *and *FGR *memory refresh mode. It's important to know in regards of your OC stability.

Foreword. Some definitions for ddr5:

_The maximum average refresh interval (tREFI) requirement depends on the refresh mode setting (normal or FGR) and the device’s case temperature (Tcase)._
_When the refresh mode is set to *normal *refresh, REFab commands are issued (tRFC1) and Tcase ≤ 85°C, the maximum average refresh interval is tREFI._
_When the refresh mode is set to *FGR *mode, REFab commands are issued (tRFC2) and Tcase ≤ 85°C, the maximum average refresh interval is tREFI/2._
I omit the Tcase > 85C situation here. *REFab* (all bank) is *tRFC*.

The DDR frequencies up to 6600 MHz are working in FGR mode, so the tREFI we set in the BIOS is effective tREFI/2 and tRFC2 is used (tRFC = tRFC2).

Starting from 6666 MHz, BIOS switches to normal mode, so effective tREFI is tREFI and no longer tRFC2 is used.

If you cross the border of 6600+ Mhz and you can't stabilize your memory having manual tREFI set to natural progression from the lower frequencies, you should set the tREFI to at least tREFI/2 (or lower).

*6200-CR1 (FGR mode):*




















*6400-CR1 (FGR mode)*



















*6600-CR2 (still FGR mode):*
_small error on BIOS picture - I put the same value as for other frequencies without booting (was 192 000 before), but it is irrelevant to the described scenario._



















*6666-CR2 (now we are in the normal mode):*



















To summarize. If you had no issues running y-cruncher with high tREFI (e.g. 130 560) up to 6600 MHz and since 6666 MHz you have some issues like

one boot is fine, another does not work
works fine in y-cruncher, but crashes while gaming
etc.
try setting tREFI to 65280 because in fact this value was used for the lower frequencies. BUT, higher frequencies = higher VDD, which means higher temps and thus refresh interval shall be shorter to keep the charge in cell in place...

There is also temperature related situation with refresh mode tREFI/4. That's why tREFI counter can be set up to 262 140 now to extend the refresh window that fits refresh intervals depending on scenario. I believe that our working range for tREFI is still up to (127 x 1024)/2 as it was with ddr4. Any effective tREFI above that is just a matter of luck 

That's just how I see this. You may have a completely different experience 

Cheers!


----------



## Super suave

Can someone start me in the right direction with pushing G-skil ddr5 on unify x? I’m super unfamiliar with msi bios ;p #noob @Nizzen “I want over 7000!!!!”


----------



## Arni90

affxct said:


> Is there an actual technical reason as to why JEDEC specified a 1.435V limit for DDR5? I'm working on a 1.45V daily and I'm wondering if there's any merit to dropping the voltage for long term use.


JEDEC specifies 1.10V VDD and VDDQ operating voltage, and there's no tradition for that voltage increasing at higher frequencies. DDR4 was specified to 1.20V at 3200 MT/s as well as 1866 MT/s

The PMIC is supposed to deliver 800 mV at base, and can increase voltage in 127 steps of 5 mV. This results in a maximum voltage of 800 mV + 5 mV * 127 = 1435 mV
If you disable secure mode, the step size increases to 10 mV, this results in a maximum voltage of 800 mV + 10 mV * 127 = 2070 mV


----------



## Arni90

Super suave said:


> Can someone start me in the right direction with pushing G-skil ddr5 on unify x? I’m super unfamiliar with msi bios ;p #noob @Nizzen “I want over 7000!!!!”


VDD and VDDQ to 1.40V
Primary timings to 40-50-50-80
VDD2 to 1.30V
CPU VDDQ to 1.50V
Find maximum stable frequency, y-cruncher is a very good indicator of stability, but you need to test with testmem5, Karhu, or HCI

Try increasing or lowering VDD2, CPU VDDQ, VDD/VDDQ, you might be able to push higher frequency. VDDQ isn't as important as VDD and VDD2, but can impact temperatures.

Once you've found maximum stable frequency, lower tCL.
Once you've found lowest stable tCL, lower tRCD.
...
Ignore tWR and tRTP, you'll set these later
tCWL should be left on tCL - 4 to start.

Before starting on turnaround timings, find tWRPRE, tWRPDEN, and tRDPRE, get these as low as possible.
Then work on tRDRD_sg, _dg, and so on...


----------



## opt33

affxct said:


> That's actually a really awesome explanation.


I was trying to find jedec specs for min/max DDR5 like DDR4, but ones out are incomplete and have TBD for values and no min/max volts. Eventually updated JEDEC DDR5 white papers will leak that list min/max voltages like DDR4 JEDEC standard No. 79-4B from 2017.

ie for DDR4, Recommend operating voltage for DDR4 1.2v rated (1.14 min to 1.26max) and absolute max 1.5v (though XMP has gone higher) but dont have later than 2017 DDR4 jedec paper.


http://www.softnology.biz/pdf/JESD79-4B.pdf


----------



## 7empe

opt33 said:


> I was trying to find jedec specs for min/max DDR5 like DDR4, but ones out are incomplete and have TBD for values and no min/max volts. Eventually updated JEDEC DDR5 white papers will leak that list min/max voltages like DDR4 JEDEC standard No. 79-4B from 2017.
> 
> ie for DDR4, Recommend operating voltage for DDR4 1.2v rated (1.14 min to 1.26max) and absolute max 1.5v (though XMP has gone higher) but dont have later than 2017 DDR4 jedec paper.
> 
> 
> http://www.softnology.biz/pdf/JESD79-4B.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2552456


Max voltages depends on stick design and quality of components the vendor puts on it. Same is true for board traces. Jedec spec is for jedec-based design sticks running non-XMP frequencies. Similar to Nvidia gpu spec for power limits - every vendor has own design, own pcb design and different PLs.


----------



## centvalny

Testing IMC 12600K


----------



## leonman44

Opened these to add some thermal pads to the pmic but now the glue is not strong enough to close the dimms properly when they heat they open and i can see the leds directly from the front.

Any idea how to close them? too bad they dont have any screws i really want these but they are out of stock : Copper hetsinks


----------



## sugi0lover

[Sharing my first 7300 CL30 OC]

bclk oc from 7200 CL30 (bclk 101.40)
tight sub-ramtimings of 7200 CL30 is not stable at 7300 CL30
Ram timings will be optimized and shared later
Higher mc voltage required than 7200 CL30.

[OC setup]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5370Mhz , E 4160Mhz, Cache 4460Mhz)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7300Mhz-30-42-42-30-315-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1304)
○ Voltages (actual at load) :
VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.42v / SA 0.95v 

[Update] Ram timings optimized









[AIDA64 at my daily gaming setup with e cores off, better than the actual]









[Before optimization]


----------



## Arni90

7empe said:


> A word on how at least ASUS switches between *normal *and *FGR *memory refresh mode. It's important to know in regards of your OC stability.
> 
> Foreword. Some definitions for ddr5:
> 
> _The maximum average refresh interval (tREFI) requirement depends on the refresh mode setting (normal or FGR) and the device’s case temperature (Tcase)._
> _When the refresh mode is set to *normal *refresh, REFab commands are issued (tRFC1) and Tcase ≤ 85°C, the maximum average refresh interval is tREFI._
> _When the refresh mode is set to *FGR *mode, REFab commands are issued (tRFC2) and Tcase ≤ 85°C, the maximum average refresh interval is tREFI/2._
> I omit the Tcase > 85C situation here. *REFab* (all bank) is *tRFC*.
> 
> The DDR frequencies up to 6600 MHz are working in FGR mode, so the tREFI we set in the BIOS is effective tREFI/2 and tRFC2 is used (tRFC = tRFC2).
> 
> Starting from 6666 MHz, BIOS switches to normal mode, so effective tREFI is tREFI and no longer tRFC2 is used.
> 
> If you cross the border of 6600+ Mhz and you can't stabilize your memory having manual tREFI set to natural progression from the lower frequencies, you should set the tREFI to at least tREFI/2 (or lower).
> 
> *6200-CR1 (FGR mode):*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2552443
> 
> View attachment 2552445
> 
> 
> *6400-CR1 (FGR mode)*
> 
> 
> View attachment 2552447
> 
> View attachment 2552446
> 
> 
> *6600-CR2 (still FGR mode):*
> _small error on BIOS picture - I put the same value as for other frequencies without booting (was 192 000 before), but it is irrelevant to the described scenario._
> 
> 
> View attachment 2552449
> 
> View attachment 2552448
> 
> 
> *6666-CR2 (now we are in the normal mode):*
> 
> 
> View attachment 2552450
> 
> View attachment 2552451
> 
> 
> To summarize. If you had no issues running y-cruncher with high tREFI (e.g. 130 560) up to 6600 MHz and since 6666 MHz you have some issues like
> 
> one boot is fine, another does not work
> works fine in y-cruncher, but crashes while gaming
> etc.
> try setting tREFI to 65280 because in fact this value was used for the lower frequencies. BUT, higher frequencies = higher VDD, which means higher temps and thus refresh interval shall be shorter to keep the charge in cell in place...
> 
> There is also temperature related situation with refresh mode tREFI/4. That's why tREFI counter can be set up to 262 140 now to extend the refresh window that fits refresh intervals depending on scenario. I believe that our working range for tREFI is still up to (127 x 1024)/2 as it was with ddr4. Any effective tREFI above that is just a matter of luck
> 
> That's just how I see this. You may have a completely different experience
> 
> Cheers!


This is some highly informative and great testing. I suspect however, that the boards don\t necessarily switch at fixed clock frequencies, as I had some significant issues with tREFI on Samsung sticks at 6000.


----------



## MarkDeMark

A beginner's question: Assuming I have no experience, Is there an order of adjustment for voltages - perhaps something like, VDD and VDDQ first to post and thereafter VDDQ TX , IMC and SA to stabilize or the other way around and so on. I am looking for an order - a logic of dependencies between these voltages that would help dictate an order of adjustments. Do I make any sense here - or is it just about diving into it and adjusting them one by one with no real specific order - for best stability and lowest voltages - Tx


----------



## affxct

MarkDeMark said:


> A beginner's question: Assuming I have no experience, Is there an order of adjustment for voltages - perhaps something like, VDD and VDDQ first to post and thereafter VDDQ TX , IMC and SA to stabilize or the other way around and so on. I am looking for an order - a logic of dependencies between these voltages that would help dictate an order of adjustments. Do I make any sense here - or is it just about diving into it and adjusting them one by one with no real specific order - for best stability and lowest voltages - Tx


VDD, VDDQ, and TX VDDQ will affect your ability to train at all, as is the case with SA on some boards like my old Strix Z690-F, and VDD2 in some cases will also need to be scaled to boot higher frequencies. Not sure exactly where and when those SA and VDD2 conditions come into play, but I know that VDD, VDDQ and TX VDDQ are kinda the main initial ones to set (unless you set a broad stroke SA and VDD2 before touching those rails as a base for the OC).


----------



## Arni90

MarkDeMark said:


> A beginner's question: Assuming I have no experience, Is there an order of adjustment for voltages - perhaps something like, VDD and VDDQ first to post and thereafter VDDQ TX , IMC and SA to stabilize or the other way around and so on. I am looking for an order - a logic of dependencies between these voltages that would help dictate an order of adjustments. Do I make any sense here - or is it just about diving into it and adjusting them one by one with no real specific order - for best stability and lowest voltages - Tx


IMC VDD, or VDD2, needs to be pushed high if I want to run 1T on my Z690 Unify-X. On the Apex I had, scaling was nonsensical. Way too low should have issues posting, but too low can also cause stability issues.

Memory VDD and VDDQ is IC-dependent. Hynix seems to primarily scale off VDD, not VDDQ.

CPU / TX VDDQ was very important on the Apex I had, less so on the Z690 Unify-X.

VCCSA controls system agent voltage, I suspect it's only function is to run the system agent and memory controllers at a higher frequency, in which case you're unlikely to encounter VCCSA needs before venturing above 7000 on DDR5.


----------



## 7empe

Arni90 said:


> This is some highly informative and great testing. I suspect however, that the boards don\t necessarily switch at fixed clock frequencies, as I had some significant issues with tREFI on Samsung sticks at 6000.


Die temperature is another factor.


----------



## centvalny

7500+c32 air, cpu reg. water


----------



## elbramso

centvalny said:


> 7500+c32 air, cpu reg. water
> View attachment 2552727


What is your CPU / TX VDDQ, VDD, VDDQ? 
Still trying to figure out where I can push my apex + Hynix modules 😅


----------



## dante`afk

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2552496
> View attachment 2552497
> 
> 
> Opened these to add some thermal pads to the pmic but now the glue is not strong enough to close the dimms properly when they heat they open and i can see the leds directly from the front.
> 
> Any idea how to close them? too bad they dont have any screws i really want these but they are out of stock : Copper hetsinks


giasou!

you want to get 3m VHB tape, 1mm or so.


----------



## warbucks

dante`afk said:


> giasou!
> 
> you want to get 3m VHB tape, 1mm or so.


This is helpful. Thanks. I'm about to open mine up and put the supercool ram waterblock on them but if I ever want to put the stock heatsinks back on I'll use this stuff.


----------



## sippo

new beta bios for Unify-X




__





MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X Gaming Motherboard ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors - 19+2 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0


The MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ATX motherboard features Direct 19+2 Phases and 105A SPS Power Solution, 4 x latest DDR5 DIMMs (dual channel) with Memory Boost architecture (6800+ MHz/OC), and dual steel-reinforced PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for heavy-duty GPU’s.




www.msi.com





7D28vA31(Beta version) 
Description
- Update CPU microcode for upcoming CPU.


----------



## Gadfly

Where can I find the Asus TurboV core utility?


----------



## sippo

sippo said:


> new beta bios for Unify-X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X Gaming Motherboard ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors - 19+2 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0
> 
> 
> The MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ATX motherboard features Direct 19+2 Phases and 105A SPS Power Solution, 4 x latest DDR5 DIMMs (dual channel) with Memory Boost architecture (6800+ MHz/OC), and dual steel-reinforced PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for heavy-duty GPU’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7D28vA31(Beta version)
> Description
> - Update CPU microcode for upcoming CPU.


I was stable at (for very long time):









SA: 1.2, VDD2 1.4, VDD/VDDQ: 1.5

at 7D28vA31 it isn't stable. So I've switched to A23.


----------



## asdkj1740

latest msi "beta" bios
seems msi has also uploaded these to the product pages
it stated: 

- Update CPU microcode for upcoming CPU.

mortar--b10
torpedo--a31
tomahawk--h31
force--a31
carbon--131
itx unify--132
godlike--131
ace--131
pro a--a31
atx unify--131
atx unify x--a31





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## sugi0lover

asdkj1740 said:


> latest msi "beta" bios
> seems msi has also uploaded these to the product pages
> it stated:
> 
> - Update CPU microcode for upcoming CPU.
> 
> mortar--b10
> torpedo--a31
> tomahawk--h31
> force--a31
> carbon--131
> itx unify--132
> godlike--131
> ace--131
> pro a--a31
> atx unify--131
> atx unify x--a31
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beta/MP - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Finally, pmic voltage unlocked for MSI.


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, pmic voltage unlocked for MSI.
> View attachment 2552913


i was going to say that haha.
any suggestion for these settings?
renesas only currently?


----------



## neizonnnnn

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, pmic voltage unlocked for MSI.
> View attachment 2552913


doesn’t boot voltages higher than 1.435V on OEM HYNIX.


----------



## Nizzen

neizonnnnn said:


> doesn’t boot voltages higher than 1.435V on OEM HYNIX.


Is it Renesas? I think Renesas is the only Pmic that is unlockable. I have some Kingston Hynix (don't remember pmic name) but they are also locked.


----------



## neizonnnnn

Nizzen said:


> Is it Renesas? I think Renesas is the only Pmic that is unlockable. I have some Kingston Hynix (don't remember pmic name) but they are also locked.


100% renesas (as per Asrock timing configurator)


----------



## neizonnnnn

Nizzen said:


> Is it Renesas? I think Renesas is the only Pmic that is unlockable. I have some Kingston Hynix (don't remember pmic name) but they are also locked.


my friends with the same PMIC have this trouble tho, on PRO-A & on Unify-X. Guess that unlock doesn’t even work


----------



## Nizzen

neizonnnnn said:


> my friends with the same PMIC have this trouble tho, on PRO-A & on Unify-X. Guess that unlock doesn’t even work


Unlock atleast works on Apex  (green Dell Hynix with Renesas)


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know the dell stick works on dark kingpin?


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know the dell stick works on dark kingpin?


Noone other than Kingpin and Luumi has that motherboard? Can't even preorder Evga motherboards here in Europe. When it's in stock, z790 Apex is here LOL


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> Noone other than Kingpin and Luumi has that motherboard? Can't even preorder Evga motherboards here in Europe. When it's in stock, z790 Apex is here LOL


Its on sale on ebay.


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing OC result posted yesterday with Z690 Hero. (not my result)

sa 1.35v / vdd1.58 / vddq1.55 / tx,vpp auto / mc 1.375v
tWPRE 3
trefi 131070 couldn't be stable, so settled with 65535.
He said that latency is a little high because he didn't clean background apps.


----------



## bscool

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Its on sale on ebay.


You mean being scalped on ebay. It is almost double the price it should be selling for.


----------



## Spit051261

The Unify X seems to be one of the best for memory OC but what is it like for CPU OC ?
My Apex has gone back for RMA and need another board .
There are no 2022 Apex models available where I am so in a bit of a bind.


----------



## bscool

Spit051261 said:


> The Unify X seems to be one of the best for memory OC but what is it like for CPU OC ?
> My Apex has gone back for RMA and need another board .
> There are no 2022 Apex models available where I am so in a bit of a bind.


That is what I would get is UNify X if you dont want to bin Apex.


----------



## Spit051261

I don't have enough arms and legs (money) to bin Apex


----------



## bscool

Spit051261 said:


> I don't have enough arms and legs (money) to bin Apex


Do you still have a kideny? 

Might get you an EVGA Dark off of ebay


----------



## Spit051261

I only got 2 of those so would probably have to give up a lung and the Mrs. as well 
I'll get the Unify X .


----------



## snakeeyes111

0 daily results on Dark. So no one knows if it is a good choice. 

Maybe strong xoc results and daily faulty 😅


----------



## affxct

One can officially now buy a 2X16 kit of Samsung/Hynix 6000C40 Lancer RGB for $330 in my country. D5 being much more than D4 didn't last very long at all. The only 3600C14 kit available is $15 cheaper here. Well that's that. Can't actually believe Adata gave our distributors such low import costs. Are they trying to give their first gen D5 away for cheap or something?


----------



## asdkj1740

snakeeyes111 said:


> 0 daily results on Dark. So no one knows if it is a good choice.
> 
> Maybe strong xoc results and daily faulty 😅


gskill:
what are you implying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SuperMumrik

Tested Intel MLC just for ****s and giggles.
ycruncher avx stable


----------



## 7empe

Maybe not 7200  but tight timings still


----------



## centvalny

Ambient settings for benching 12600K on regular water cooling with [email protected] (can be tighter secs/terts) air.
Vdd/dq/sa/dqtx/mc 1.66/1.66/1.2/1.5/1.435


----------



## IronAge

snakeeyes111 said:


> 0 daily results on Dark. So no one knows if it is a good choice.
> 
> Maybe strong xoc results and daily faulty 😅







Me likes EVGA Z690 Dark, but can't buy it.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Well, after a lot of reading/checkings/testings there´s no way I can run above 5000Mhz on XMP II stable without crashing or even getting mem errors right way on AIDA tests.
I do have Corsair Dominator 5600 Mhz ( 4 sticks ) and G. Skill Trident Z5 TZ5S ( also 4 sticks ) and both don´t go beyond 5000 Mhz, doesn´t matter 2 sticks or 4 sticks. 
😭


----------



## asdkj1740

Alessandro Silva said:


> Well, after a lot of reading/checkings/testings there´s no way I can run above 5000Mhz on XMP II stable without crashing or even getting mem errors right way on AIDA tests.
> I do have Corsair Dominator 5600 Mhz ( 4 sticks ) and G. Skill Trident Z5 TZ5S ( aldo 4 sticks ) and both don´t go beyond 5000 Mhz, doesn´t matter 2 sticks or 4 sticks.
> 😭


4 sticks is illegal sir. 
not to mention i guess you are not having a pack in 4 sticks but making it up by two packs of 2 sticks.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

asdkj1740 said:


> 4 sticks is illegal sir.
> not to mention i guess you are not having a pack in 4 sticks but making it up by two packs of 2 sticks.





asdkj1740 said:


> 4 sticks is illegal sir.
> not to mention i guess you are not having a pack in 4 sticks but making it up by two packs of 2 sticks.



I´ve tried everything. My actual rig it´s at my signature, anyway I´m not a PC expert but never had experienced this kind of issue.


----------



## jollib

neizonnnnn said:


> my friends with the same PMIC have this trouble tho, on PRO-A & on Unify-X. Guess that unlock doesn’t even work


at least there is progress and hopefully it will be working soon. im going to try to update and test. been on the fence about keeping the dells. this is swaying me to keep them with the unify-x


----------



## jollib

Just tried the unify-x with beta bios with dell hynix with renasas PMIC. didnt boot at 1.5 got the failed memory overclock error. it booted at 1.45 but asrock software showed the voltage at 0. restarted again checked bios still at 1.5 but asrock software shows it at 1.1. so i dont know if 1.45 actually worked. with the bios set to 1.45 i can restart with no boot errors and go into the bios without issues but i dont think its taking. yeah not very scientific i know.


----------



## asdkj1740

thermaltake toughram ddr5 4800
hynix kit with renesas pmic (it seems unlocked on asus apex, but no idea whether it is unlocked pmic or not)
tested with Thermaltake ram/cpu aio, spd temps are not great considering it is just ~1.48v.
legit 6400c30 oc with ram aio used.
6800mhz memtestprov4.5 100% passed but it seems the sub timings are left auto.


----------



## centvalny

7600c32 air on ram and regular water cooling on cpu absolut max for ambient. 
Not all cpu (even with high SP) can scale to 7466 imc or 7200 benchable let alone mem test stable. 
Not to mention ram bin quality.


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> 7600c32 air on ram and regular water cooling on cpu absolut max for ambient ADL
> View attachment 2553376


Why is read abit slow? Is it because of 12600k?
Maybe too fast for Aida 😅
Nice job!


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Why is read abit slow? Is it because of 12600k?
> Maybe too fast for Aida 😅
> Nice job!


12900K...I wish. Definitely read 120K+ and GB3 mem 15K+


----------



## asdkj1740

centvalny said:


> 7600c32 air on ram and regular water cooling on cpu absolut max for ambient.
> Not all cpu even with high SP can scale up to 7466 imc or even 7200 benchable let alone mem test stable.
> Not to mention ram bin quality.
> 
> View attachment 2553376


i have seen ppl saying 1304 is not as good as before, have you tried 1304 yet?


----------



## centvalny

asdkj1740 said:


> i have seen ppl saying 1304 is not as good as before, have you tried 1304 yet?


Not yet. I stay with 0086 and 0070 for hynix and samsung tests


----------



## Nizzen

Old Aida64 bench from my still going strong 7980xe. Pretty cool that dualchannel ddr5 soon is as fast as quad channel in bandwidth


----------



## CptSpig

Nizzen said:


> Old Aida64 bench from my still going strong 7980xe. Pretty cool that dualchannel ddr5 soon is as fast as quad channel in bandwidth


The good old days!


----------



## munternet

Had a little time today and changed only the vccsa to 1.05 and frequency to 6800MHz
GSAT 1Hr stable
About to play some BFV for a few hours
Not a lot of Aida64 gain going from 6600MHz

Edit: A couple of hours BF2042 with no errors or crashes


----------



## Nizzen

Tech site testing memory performance in games








Fast RAM makes a difference in gaming


The Memory Performance Review - 6 Kits tested with 30 Games and Real World Benches Featuring Corsair DDR5 6400




babeltechreviews.com





Next time they need "some" optimizations from us, and better pictures


----------



## inedenimadam

Does anyone know if the Renesas P8911-Y0 has been unlocked on MSI boards yet? Would love to throw some more voltage at these hynix dual sided sticks, but im capped out at 1.435... still...
A.22 bios Unify-X

Edit: read back a few pages. I see A.31 bios has an unlock function. will be playing later this week.


----------



## sugi0lover

inedenimadam said:


> Does anyone know if the Renesas P8911-Y0 has been unlocked on MSI boards yet? Would love to throw some more voltage at these hynix dual sided sticks, but im capped out at 1.435... still...
> A.22 bios Unify-X
> 
> Edit: read back a few pages. I see A.31 bios has an unlock function. will be playing later this week.


After unlock function was added, many MSI users got excited, but there has been no good OC result yet at Korean PC forum.
I will share when any good result is posted.


----------



## inedenimadam

sugi0lover said:


> After unlock function was added, many MSI users got excited, but there has been no good OC result yet at Korean PC forum.
> I will share when any good result is posted.


that's too bad, but at least it seems they are working on it. Since we have dual bios on the unify-x, I probably will give it a go myself and just backup my current bios profile.


----------



## inedenimadam

inedenimadam said:


> that's too bad, but at least it seems they are working on it. Since we have dual bios on the unify-x, I probably will give it a go myself and just backup my current bios profile.


Quoting myself to report back. Memory support is worse on 31. PMIC unlock does allow me to set a higher vdd and vddq, but it doesnt post and ends up in recovery. I tried at 4800, 6000, and 6400. My daily OC is 6400 C28 on dual sided hynix green sticks from dell at 1.435 vdd/vddq. It would NOT take the same OC, even with greatly eased timings, not would it boot any config including the pmic unlocked and voltages set over 1.435.

Unify-X A.31 is fecal matter thrown into a DC-10 engine. I hope the next one gets it right.


----------



## centvalny

inedenimadam said:


> Quoting myself to report back. Memory support is worse on 31. PMIC unlock does allow me to set a higher vdd and vddq, but it doesnt post and ends up in recovery. I tried at 4800, 6000, and 6400. My daily OC is 6400 C28 on dual sided hynix green sticks from dell at 1.435 vdd/vddq. It would NOT take the same OC, even with greatly eased timings, not would it boot any config including the pmic unlocked and voltages set over 1.435.
> 
> Unify-X A.31 is fecal matter thrown into a DC-10 engine. I hope the next one gets it right.


Imo secured renasas pmic can only partially opened, if you set vdd/dq 1.6 in bios it will boot to windows @ 1.56 which probly the max (on Apex). 
Try adjust mc, sa and vddtx to go with higher vdd/dq.


----------



## Cxxkies

Anybody with a Unify-X gotten 7000mhz? I have the z5 6400c32


----------



## mattxx88

Cxxkies said:


> Anybody with a Unify-X gotten 7000mhz? I have the z5 6400c32


you should first try if your kit is fully capable of, test 1 stick per time
i saw many sticks walling at 6600 and the other 7200


----------



## Nizzen

Cxxkies said:


> Anybody with a Unify-X gotten 7000mhz? I have the z5 6400c32


Can't wait for your results


----------



## Cxxkies

I cant boot at 7000mhz at all. So I sticked with 6800mhz. If anybody with a Unify-X has 7000mhz+ running please let me know!

BASELINE... TUNING IN PROCESS


----------



## munternet

centvalny said:


> Imo secured renasas pmic can only partially opened, if you set vdd/dq 1.6 in bios it will boot to windows @ 1.56 which probly the max (on Apex).
> Try adjust mc, sa and vddtx to go with higher vdd/dq.


I can set it higher but start to get errors in Windows so stopped at 1.64v in bios


----------



## Cxxkies

mattxx88 said:


> you should first try if your kit is fully capable of, test 1 stick per time
> i saw many sticks walling at 6600 and the other 7200


whats the point of that sorry? I am using both sticks anyways...


----------



## firezen42

Cxxkies said:


> I cant boot at 7000mhz at all. So I sticked with 6800mhz. If anybody with a Unify-X has 7000mhz+ running please let me know!
> 
> BASELINE... TUNING IN PROCESS
> 
> View attachment 2553633


I am also on G.Skill 6400C32 kit, 7000 boots every time but 7200 doesn’t boot no matter what settings I change (i.e. CPU VDDQ, CPU VDD2, DRAM VDD, DRAM VDDQ), thinking that’s the IMC limit of my CPU (unsatisfied about it). Seeing your case, however, is 7000 bootable already considered good on a Unify-X? I thought the everyone on this board can go at least 7000 lol


----------



## bscool

Cxxkies said:


> whats the point of that sorry? I am using both sticks anyways...


To find the weak link.

If one stick can do 7200 and the other 6800 you have your weak link the 6800 stick. 

Same with testing each slot individually. If slot 1 can do 6800 but slot 2 7200 same thing.

You can have both sticks that can do 7200 in slot 2 but if slot 1 only does 6800 you are limited to 6800.


----------



## sugi0lover

Cxxkies said:


> Anybody with a Unify-X gotten 7000mhz? I have the z5 6400c32


Here they are. 7000 on Unfiy X and Unify itx
_Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
_Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


----------



## snakeeyes111

7000+ boot on unify no way. I can bench close to 7200 with blck oc in OS, but boot higher then 7000 isnt possible. Kit and imc do on apex 7470 geek3. Dont try with more voltage then 1.6v vdd so maybe apex can do more.


----------



## Nizzen

snakeeyes111 said:


> 7000+ boot on unify no way. I can bench close to 7200 with blck oc in OS, but boot higher then 7000 isnt possible. Kit and imc do on apex 7470 geek3. Dont try with more voltage then 1.6v vdd so maybe apex can do more.


So msi is worse than Apex?


----------



## matique

i'd say the best apex is best board, but average unify > average apex 

I can boot and bench up to 7200 on my unify itx fwiw, and can daily 7000c30.


----------



## opt33

matique said:


> i'd say the best apex is best board, but average unify > average apex
> 
> I can boot and bench up to 7200 on my unify itx fwiw, and can daily 7000c30.


same here, I have screenshots earlier with 7000c30 on unify-x with my samsung ram, 7200 boots into windows but quickly bsods. On air not running that high voltage, so using 6400c32 t1 with hynix for 24/7 no issues gaming weeks and with fairly low volts.


----------



## matique

opt33 said:


> same here, I have screenshots earlier with 7000c30 on unify-x with my samsung ram, 7200 boots into windows but quickly bsods. On air not running that high voltage, so using 6400c32 t1 with hynix for 24/7 no issues gaming weeks and with fairly low volts.












running 7000c30 fanless as an experiment, surprisingly doesnt error even above 50c. With ram fan it's about 43-44c. And holy **** samsung at 7000c30, stable? The most i've pushed my samsungs was 6800c36, stable at 1.58v.


----------



## opt33

my samsung is better than average, my hynix worse than average. But use hynix since runs 15C cooler at same volts (partially from better corsair heatsinks and hynix just cooler). 7000c30 not stable at room temp. I can bench all day, but tm5 temps past 65C quickly and error. with a/c vent can lower temps 15C and ran tm5 5 mins didnt try longer, was thinking about water, but too much hassle for too little real word gain.


----------



## snakeeyes111

If u get a good apex, yes.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Samsung need ~2w more then hynix. Thats the reason why hynix colder.


----------



## owikh84

Seldom see i7 12700K RAM OC here. 😆
6666 is likely max bootable RAM frequency for this chip, IMC is quite weak I think or I haven't really pushed it yet.

12700K SP72 - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.26
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25

*2x16GB DDR5-6600 30-40-40-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.50v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.35v*

MSI 6600 CL30 @ 1.50v OC profile: tWR 64









Manual tWR 13 ASRock (tWR 16 ASUS):








* SPD hub max temp 63.8c is a bug.


----------



## veggieg

Cxxkies，帖子：28966095，成员：658366 said:


> 有人用 Unify-X 得到 7000mhz 吗？我有 z5 6400c32
> [/引用]


----------



## Cxxkies

where can I see original post? I want to know what voltages he used...


----------



## asdkj1740

gskill 6000c30 32g*2 is up.


----------



## sblantipodi

asus recognized a problem in the Apex boards but they recognized it in a forum post... pretty ridiculous.
I don't know if the problem afflicts other boards too like Hero or Extreme.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> gskill 6000c30 32g*2 is up.


Stock or just announced?


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Stock or just announced?


announced.


----------



## asdkj1740

gigabyte aorus kit


















DDR5 平台入門磚 AORUS DDR5 5200MHz 32GB，散熱優異效能穩


技嘉這次推出的 DDR5-5200 記憶體模組便是針對入門及通用市場的解決方案，以低溫、穩定做為主打賣點，結合 AORUS 主機板還能自訂多種設定檔，讓玩家可以打造最適合自己的記憶體組態。




www.techbang.com


----------



## veggieg

Cxxkies said:


> where can I see original post? I want to know what voltages he used...


7000mhz cpu vddq1.50v vdd2 1.40v dram vdd2 1.47v vddq1.45v


----------



## Nizzen

veggieg said:


> 7000mhz cpu vddq1.50v vdd2 1.40v dram vdd2 1.47v vddq1.45v


Where is the orginal post? 🤓


----------



## asdkj1740

special msi beta bios for advanced dram oc are updated
unify x A31U2 
unify i 132U2


----------



## Gadfly

ObviousCough said:


> It has taken me forever to find the time to do proper testing so i could reach a proper conclusion:* My APEX *is junk. Memory slot A can't do better than 6600 stable while B has no problem sailing all the way up to 7400. Doing 6600 in dual channel isn't happening.


My 11/2021 Apex is pretty much identical to yours, My slot A will only run stable at 6400, and B will go up to 7400; I am going to RMA the board and hope by some miracle they send me a good one.


----------



## veggieg

This is my grade. What details are you looking for?


Nizzen said:


> Where is the orginal post? 🤓


----------



## Nizzen

veggieg said:


> This is my grade. What details are you looking for?


Hwinfo64 

You have very good results, so it's nice to see everything. Looks like you learned the motherboard 

Nice job


----------



## themad

sblantipodi said:


> asus recognized a problem in the Apex boards but they recognized it in a forum post... pretty ridiculous.
> I don't know if the problem afflicts other boards too like Hero or Extreme.
> 
> View attachment 2553796


Hi, which forum is that? Can you please give the link to the post?

Thanks!


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> special msi beta bios for advanced dram oc are updated
> unify x A31U2
> unify i 132U2
> 
> View attachment 2553803


link, please


----------



## TickTockOverclock

I'm looking to switch over to an Apex, is it just a crapshoot whether you get a good one or not?


----------



## asdkj1740

neizonnnnn said:


> link, please








腾讯微云







share.weiyun.com





which one do you need?


----------



## acoustic

Is there any sort of list of which brand/model#'s to chase for the good clocking DDR5 chips?

I am looking at dumping my TUF D4 and going to a Unify.


----------



## Afferin

acoustic said:


> Is there any sort of list of which brand/model#'s to chase for the good clocking DDR5 chips?
> 
> I am looking at dumping my TUF D4 and going to a Unify.


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think someone said earlier in the thread that the best kits are the green Hynix sticks with no heatsink, as they OC the best under water. But if you want pre-binned sticks that are guaranteed performers, I think the GSkill 6400CL32 kit is the most extensively binned kit out right now. I personally use the Team TForce 6400CL40 kit and it OCs pretty well on my Formula (6600CL30), so I would say they've done a pretty good job of binning as well.

If you're looking to keep temps down, the Corsair Dominator 6200+ kits are Hynix as well, and for whatever reason those were consistently 10c+ cooler than my GSkill and TForce kits.

Although take this with a grain of salt; most of my suggestions have been Hynix as Hynix has been performing well. But I've been seeing more and more people get great OCs on Samsung sticks, so you could also take a look at the GSkill 6000CL36 kits which are Samsung.


----------



## Cxxkies

veggieg said:


> 7000mhz cpu vddq1.50v vdd2 1.40v dram vdd2 1.47v vddq1.45v


Impossible with my 12900k 5.2 47 ring. I cam barely
Boot
6800


----------



## acoustic

Afferin said:


> Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think someone said earlier in the thread that the best kits are the green Hynix sticks with no heatsink, as they OC the best under water. But if you want pre-binned sticks that are guaranteed performers, I think the GSkill 6400CL32 kit is the most extensively binned kit out right now. I personally use the Team TForce 6400CL40 kit and it OCs pretty well on my Formula (6600CL30), so I would say they've done a pretty good job of binning as well.
> 
> If you're looking to keep temps down, the Corsair Dominator 6200+ kits are Hynix as well, and for whatever reason those were consistently 10c+ cooler than my GSkill and TForce kits.
> 
> Although take this with a grain of salt; most of my suggestions have been Hynix as Hynix has been performing well. But I've been seeing more and more people get great OCs on Samsung sticks, so you could also take a look at the GSkill 6000CL36 kits which are Samsung.


Thanks! I see the GSkill 6400CL32 for $479 at my Microcenter, and they have the MSI Unify as well. Going to go snag them today, I think. I'm tired of this TUF D4 with lack of features and fan headers. I'm currently having to run my rear exhaust fan at max because CPU OPT was the only other header I could use and it's tied to the CPU FAN BIOS speed. gross..

I'm not used to buying these low-end budget-tier boards .. and I'm not happy with it.


----------



## Afferin

acoustic said:


> Thanks! I see the GSkill 6400CL32 for $479 at my Microcenter, and they have the MSI Unify as well. Going to go snag them today, I think. I'm tired of this TUF D4 with lack of features and fan headers. I'm currently having to run my rear exhaust fan at max because CPU OPT was the only other header I could use and it's tied to the CPU FAN BIOS speed. gross..
> 
> I'm not used to buying these low-end budget-tier boards .. and I'm not happy with it.


You could always get a budget fan hub to go with the budget board!

Just kidding. Best of luck on your OCing adventure! I'm personally not a fan of the GSkill kits because they run so hot, but my TForce kit isn't much better lol. Feel free to reach out if you need any help stabilizing things and whatnot.


----------



## acoustic

Afferin said:


> You could always get a budget fan hub to go with the budget board!
> 
> Just kidding. Best of luck on your OCing adventure! I'm personally not a fan of the GSkill kits because they run so hot, but my TForce kit isn't much better lol. Feel free to reach out if you need any help stabilizing things and whatnot.


It can't be worse than the nightmare that early DDR4 OCing was with Alderlake, lol .. complete ****show trying to get Gear1 stable .. looks like it was BIOS related w/ the motherboard, though. Appreciate the advice on the DDR5 kits - I've been out of the loop for a few months.


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which one do you need?


Unify-X


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which one do you need?


It requires some QR code


----------



## asdkj1740

neizonnnnn said:


> Unify-X


change from
.pdf
to
.rar

use it at your own risk.
ps. you have to set vddq manually. dont leave it auto.


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> change from
> .pdf
> to
> .rar
> 
> use it at your own risk.


thank you, does it have any PMIC Unlock fixes?
Because I had troubles booting voltage higher than 1.435V on OEM Hynix sticks


----------



## asdkj1740

neizonnnnn said:


> thank you, does it have any PMIC Unlock fixes?
> Because I had troubles booting voltage higher than 1.435V on OEM Hynix sticks


renesas only. mps is not included.

ps. you have to set vddq manually. dont leave it auto.


----------



## Simkin

Just got my C-RAM ramfan... and it did not fit, due to ROG dimm card on my Apex beeing to high, hoses from H170i cooler is in the way, and my Teamgroup sticks is to wide  yey.

But i still have my 120mm Chromax fan mounted on top of my 200mm fan in the sidedoor on my Phantom 820 blowing directly my ddr5, and it does indeed lower the temps.

What temp should be max on Hynix ic? On stresstesting its mid 50 now on 6200 CL32 1T, with high ambient (24c+)


----------



## elbramso

asdkj1740 said:


> renesas only. mps is not included.
> 
> ps. you have to set vddq manually. dont leave it auto.


Does this bios fix post boot issues with with sticks running at 6600+?
I couldn't even boot on my unify when I had my sticks above 6600. On Apex I can boot with 7000.


----------



## asdkj1740

elbramso said:


> Does this bios fix post boot issues with with sticks running at 6600+?
> I couldn't even boot on my unify when I had my sticks above 6600. On Apex I can boot with 7000.


no idea.
it seems that the problem you have with unify is exactly what some apex users here are complaining about. 
the matter of frequency ceilings on two channels with different trace lengths. 
they are supposed to be different simply because they are wired to different dimm slots. 
have you checked the frequency ceilings of two slots on your unifyx?


----------



## inedenimadam

sblantipodi said:


> asus recognized a problem in the Apex boards but they recognized it in a forum post... pretty ridiculous.
> I don't know if the problem afflicts other boards too like Hero or Extreme.
> 
> View attachment 2553796


im trying. My Apex is junk. Cant run XMP 6000 on gskil sammy kit that runs 6800 on UnifyX


----------



## borant

Simkin said:


> What temp should be max on Hynix ic? On stresstesting its mid 50 now on 6200 CL32 1T, with high ambient (24c+)


with your timings you should be fine in low 50s.
with 6400C28 1T Hynix instability starts at 36c with tREFI 262171, at 39c tREFI needs to go further down to 65535 and so on. (c) @7empe


----------



## GtiJason

elbramso said:


> Does this bios fix post boot issues with with sticks running at 6600+?
> I couldn't even boot on my unify when I had my sticks above 6600. On Apex I can boot with 7000.


I was benching for an ambient temperature competition today with my Unify-X bios A24 at 6933-7000c28 and needed to try lower freq settings for the worse benchmark(s) made XTU(2) and my board is far more comfortable at 6800-7000 than it is at 6200 - 6600, even with loose CL 36-40. Not sure if it's because I've only ran 6800 as daily style minimum or if it's because of this bios. Previous bios A22 ran all settings with far less supporting voltages.
Also if anyone can explain the "Memory Bandwidth Enhanced" Modes in the MSI BIOS I would be forever grateful .











Spoiler: HWInfo V's and BIOS


----------



## elbramso

GtiJason said:


> I was benching for an ambient temperature competition today with my Unify-X bios A24 at 6933-7000c28 and needed to try lower freq settings for the worse benchmark(s) made XTU(2) and my board is far more comfortable at 6800-7000 than it is at 6200 - 6600, even with loose CL 36-40. Not sure if it's because I've only ran 6800 as daily style minimum or if it's because of this bios. Previous bios A22 ran all settings with far less supporting voltages.
> Also if anyone can explain the "Memory Bandwidth Enhanced" Modes in the MSI BIOS I would be forever grateful .
> View attachment 2553916
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWInfo V's and BIOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2553917
> 
> 
> View attachment 2553918


I couldn't even boot on something like 6800+, but tbh I wasn't familiar with the MSI Bios at all. I thought that there was something like Asus "mch fullcheck" preventing the boot...
Maybe it was due to high voltages but thats pretty much what the Apex needed to run at all


----------



## Cxxkies

asdkj1740 said:


> change from
> .pdf
> to
> .rar
> 
> use it at your own risk.
> ps. you have to set vddq manually. dont leave it auto.


What is the risk? What is the difference in this bios?


----------



## asdkj1740

GtiJason said:


> I was benching for an ambient temperature competition today with my Unify-X bios A24 at 6933-7000c28 and needed to try lower freq settings for the worse benchmark(s) made XTU(2) and my board is far more comfortable at 6800-7000 than it is at 6200 - 6600, even with loose CL 36-40. Not sure if it's because I've only ran 6800 as daily style minimum or if it's because of this bios. Previous bios A22 ran all settings with far less supporting voltages.
> Also if anyone can explain the "Memory Bandwidth Enhanced" Modes in the MSI BIOS I would be forever grateful .
> View attachment 2553916
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWInfo V's and BIOS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2553917
> 
> 
> View attachment 2553918


the memory bandwidth enhanced mode actually enhances memory bandwidth.


----------



## matique

asdkj1740 said:


> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which one do you need?


Does this bios remove avx512? For unify itx. Will try it soon.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Who say its air limited? 


Maybe u should change your dram voltage before u use apply 😅. I mean 0.8v is hard 🤣.


Now u can tell me the secret in xtu to reach 2200 points and more.


----------



## matique

snakeeyes111 said:


> Who say its air limited?
> 
> 
> Maybe u should change your dram voltage before u use apply 😅. I mean 0.8v is hard 🤣.
> 
> 
> Now u can tell me the secret in xtu to reach 2200 points and more.


You might want to use the reply button to give your answer some context 😅


----------



## GtiJason

snakeeyes111 said:


> Who say its air limited?
> 
> 
> Maybe u should change your dram voltage before u use apply 😅. I mean 0.8v is hard 🤣.
> 
> 
> Now u can tell me the secret in xtu to reach 2200 points and more.


Not sure if you are referring to me about air limited, but this is just a small "Challenge" between friends. Sure Challenger HWBot series is only freq limited but from what I've seen so far only a couple guys like OVIZ Hardware Lab have used any kind of cold with a chiller, well besides all the "Window Mod" guys living in cold climates. That's why I'm only joining so far with ****ty aio cooling, as you can see in my **** XTU post I'm over 80C at 1.3v. Would not really be fair of me to start using LN2, dice, my runmc single stage or even my modded Intel Cryo Tec. Points mean nothing to me but always continuing to learn and having a good time with my team mates and friends in the community does
That was just an example picture bro, been benching for 9+ years now, I see you just joined our forum Christmas eve . . . of 2020 LOL ROFFL
Have some respect jeeze

Edit: might just be a language barrier thing plus it being very difficult to sense the tone of a reply and if so I'm sorry but it sure seemed like an attack to me


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> Does this bios remove avx512? For unify itx. Will try it soon.


i think so. at least the normal latest beta bios still has it.



Cxxkies said:


> What is the risk? What is the difference in this bios?


these are called advanced beta bios which include even more new changes that the current latest normal beta bios has not yet covered.
official bios = verified
beta bios = not yet fully verified = risky
advanced beta bios = wild tests on next beta bios = dangerous if you dont know what you are doing.


----------



## ldt

matique said:


> View attachment 2553669
> 
> 
> running 7000c30 fanless as an experiment, surprisingly doesnt error even above 50c. With ram fan it's about 43-44c. And holy **** samsung at 7000c30, stable? The most i've pushed my samsungs was 6800c36, stable at 1.58v.


please share me the link where I can download MSI dragon ball like you . Thanks !


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> renesas only. mps is not included.


Okay


asdkj1740 said:


> renesas only. mps is not included.
> 
> ps. you have to set vddq manually. dont leave it auto.


wow it works, can you send the PDF file for PRO-A too? that would be fantastic


----------



## 7empe

Simkin said:


> Just got my C-RAM ramfan... and it did not fit, due to ROG dimm card on my Apex beeing to high, hoses from H170i cooler is in the way, and my Teamgroup sticks is to wide  yey.
> 
> But i still have my 120mm Chromax fan mounted on top of my 200mm fan in the sidedoor on my Phantom 820 blowing directly my ddr5, and it does indeed lower the temps.
> 
> What temp should be max on Hynix ic? On stresstesting its mid 50 now on 6200 CL32 1T, with high ambient (24c+)


The DIMM temperature is measured on the PMIC/SPD area. There's a physical temp sensor. If you're at 50 there then the die itself is hotter. High temperature for PMIC is => 125C and PMIC shutdown temperature is >= 145C. The memory starts to generate errors at some die temp steps that can be compensate by:

lowering tREFI and/or increasing tRFC
increasing VDD without changing tREFI/tRFC
First temperature threshold for Hynix IC starts at 32-36C (PMIC/SPD temp). Second is at high 50, low 60. It's just a general and average range measured using 6 pairs of different Hynix sticks... First threshold is easy to fix by increasing VDD by 10-20 mV. Not a reason to change tREFI/tRFC yet.


----------



## asdkj1740

ldt said:


> please share me the link where I can download MSI dragon ball like you . Thanks !


me too!!!
mine is 08 only...


----------



## snakeeyes111

GtiJason said:


> Edit: might just be a language barrier thing plus it being very difficult to sense the tone of a reply and if so I'm sorry but it sure seemed like an attack to me


It wasnt! 



GtiJason said:


> , I see you just joined our forum Christmas eve . . . of 2020 LOL ROFFL
> Have some respect jeeze


It make sense how long u are in a forum?
Dont think so. I mean 9 years and 400 rep.... also dont say anything.

And im pretty sure i also have an old, very old Account. But if u dont have your old email etc you need to create a New Account.

maybe you shouldn't judge by account age or anything else.
I'm just more active in another forum than here.

I wish you much success anyway. But my question about XTU was meant seriously. Need more points in XTU. I wont Lose my 1st.


----------



## matique

ldt said:


> please share me the link where I can download MSI dragon ball like you . Thanks !





asdkj1740 said:


> me too!!!
> mine is 08 only...


Here you go!!





MSI Dragon Ball(1.0.0.10)-intel.zip







drive.google.com





updated dragon power (shows correct voltages if vdimm >1.435v)





MSI_Dragon_Power1.0.0.10.zip







drive.google.com


----------



## elbramso

I'm still wondering why I couldn't boot with memory higher than 6666 on the Unify-X but 7000 is booting on the Apex. Stability is a different story but that could still be a bad imc.


----------



## Cxxkies

elbramso said:


> I'm still wondering why I couldn't boot with memory higher than 6666 on the Unify-X but 7000 is booting on the Apex. Stability is a different story but that could still be a bad imc.


I can't get 7000 stable at all... 6800 I am struggling. But it seems like the unify-x doesn't like high vdd and vddc dram voltages. I booted with 1.5v same timings: errors. 1.435v: no errors.

Seems like the unify x does not like high voltages or might be my SK Hynix Z5's

EDIT: Looks like 1.470 is the highest voltage I can go without errors in Karhu.

CPU VDDQ 1.525


----------



## Cxxkies

sugi0lover said:


> I am not sure all motherboards, but you asked unifyx and my answer is for that since my friend is using unifyx with higher than 1.435v.


I can't get an error free test above 1.470 in Karhu... Any thing I can adjust in the BIOS on the Unify X?

I have the lates bios that was posted here few days ago...


----------



## sugi0lover

Cxxkies said:


> I can't get an error free test above 1.470 in Karhu... Any thing I can adjust in the BIOS on the Unify X?
> 
> I have the lates bios that was posted here few days ago...


I don't use Unify X myself, so I don't know.
I replied to your post and I am not sure you read it or not.
Anyway here it is and the voltage is 1.600v stable in TM5 without any problem.








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Old Aida64 bench from my still going strong 7980xe. Pretty cool that dualchannel ddr5 soon is as fast as quad channel in bandwidth :D




www.overclock.net


----------



## Cxxkies

sugi0lover said:


> I don't use Unify X myself, so I don't know.
> I replied to your post and I am not sure you read it or not.
> Anyway here it is and the voltage is 1.600v stable in TM5 without any problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Old Aida64 bench from my still going strong 7980xe. Pretty cool that dualchannel ddr5 soon is as fast as quad channel in bandwidth :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


I can only do max 1.470v on my ram. More I get errors... even with same timings. Probably bad silicone in either my cpu, mobo or ram


----------



## Nizzen

Cxxkies said:


> I can only do max 1.470v on my ram. More I get errors... even with same timings. Probably bad silicone in either my cpu, mobo or ram


Temperature?


----------



## Cxxkies

around 60-65... Sometimes it kisses 70 (during stress test)


----------



## Nizzen

Cxxkies said:


> around 60-65... Sometimes it kisses 70 (during stress test)


Too hot. That's why you are getting errors.
Use a fan directly over the dimms. 40-45c most likely


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> 7600c32 air on ram and regular water cooling on cpu absolut max for ambient.
> Not all cpu (even with high SP) can scale to 7466 imc or 7200 benchable let alone mem test stable.
> Not to mention ram bin quality.
> 
> View attachment 2553376


impressive work, awesome!


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Too hot. That's why you are getting errors.
> Use a fan directly over the dimms. 40-45c most likely


gskill samsung kit said hold me beer.


----------



## ldt

sippo said:


> I was stable at (for very long time):
> View attachment 2552846
> 
> 
> SA: 1.2, VDD2 1.4, VDD/VDDQ: 1.5
> 
> at 7D28vA31 it isn't stable. So I've switched to A23.


I can not find the Bios A23 on the web any more , so Please share me this one , Thank you !


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 28-37-37 1T 1.55v VDD 1.50v VDDQ/TX VDDQ 0.925v SA 1.25v MC
EK Monarch heatsink installed with 120mm fan. Max temp: 42C
Apex 11/2021


----------



## Aurosonic

SoldierRBT said:


> 12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 28-37-37 1T 1.55v VDD 1.50v VDDQ/TX VDDQ 0.925v SA 1.25v MC
> EK Monarch heatsink installed with 120mm fan. Max temp: 42C
> Apex 11/2021


which bios ver. did you use?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Aurosonic said:


> which bios ver. did you use?


1304


----------



## jollib

Just tested the a31u2 bios for the unify-x. It works!! Well after wasting so much time finally realizing it was enabling the “power saver” saver profile. I was wondering why my p cores were not boosting past 2.3. Dont be me. Now to tune!


----------



## Cxxkies

jollib said:


> Just tested the a31u2 bios for the unify-x. It works!! Well after wasting so much time finally realizing it was enabling the “power saver” saver profile. I was wondering why my p cores were not boosting past 2.3. Dont be me. Now to tune!


where is that option in the bios?


----------



## jollib

Cxxkies said:


> where is that option in the bios?


It was enabling it In windows.


----------



## 7empe

SoldierRBT said:


> 12900KF 5.2/4.8GHz 6400 28-37-37 1T 1.55v VDD 1.50v VDDQ/TX VDDQ 0.925v SA 1.25v MC
> EK Monarch heatsink installed with 120mm fan. Max temp: 42C
> Apex 11/2021
> View attachment 2554156


Same board and the same production date here (11/2021).
6600 30-38-38-30 1T 1.55v VDD 1.50 VDDQ 1.50 VDDQTx 0.95v SA 1.30v MC
Watercooled with EK Monarch.

Important for stability: tWR, tRAS (not lower than tCL), tWTR.


----------



## sippo

ldt said:


> I can not find the Bios A23 on the web any more , so Please share me this one , Thank you !








MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com


----------



## 7empe

6666 30-39-39-30 1T 1.55v VDD 1.55 VDDQ 1.55 VDDQTx 0.95v SA 1.30v MC
Watercooled with EK Monarch.


----------



## SoldierRBT

6500 28-37-37 1T 1.60v VDD 1.50v VDDQ 1.55v VDDQ TX 0.925v SA 1.275v MC
Max temp: 44C


----------



## LionS7

So, I finally figured out what is the deal with Samsung + MAG Z690 TORPEDO. I hope that this is useful for someone, because the Samsung chips are like a bi*ch. This was the comment that I posted in one of the last videos of АHOC with some edits:

On my standard MAG Z690 TORPEDO + 12900K and a Samsung chips - SN 250E6A98. (Kingston Fury Beast 5600CL40). Stable 24/7 - DDR5-6400 36-36-36-30-2-435, 262143. SA 1.25V, VDD2 1.20V, CPU VDDQ 1.40V, VDDQ 1.53V (above 1.53 - crash on startup), VDD 1.56V. On and after 52C on a module, the RAM is crashing, so you need cooling. It was a mess when you don't know the lower and higher gap of SA and VDD2. They were the problem, until I can find stable configuration. The SA was crashing after 1.30V for me (under 1.25 crash), and the VDD2 was crashing even on 1.22V (under 1.20 crash). So yeah... it was an interesting journey. I need to optimize more of the second timings and etc. The board is good, but omg you need to juggling 5 voltage and 3 of them has a stable line, that they need not to cross.


----------



## rhildinger

I hope I'm not violating forum rules by asking for DDR5 RAM recommendations here... I'm building a Linux build server out of a MSI Z690i Unify motherboard and i9-12900K, integrated video, no GFX card. The following DDR5 ram is avaiable at my local MicroCenter:

DDR5-6200 CL36 - Corsair CMT32GX5M2X6200 - $499
DDR5-6400 CL32 - G.skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2 - $479
DDR5-6000 CL36 - G.skill F5-6000J3636F16GX2 - $429
DDR5-5600 CL36 - Corsair CMT32GX5M2X5600 - $399
DDR5-6000 CL40 - G.skill F5-6000J4040F16GX2 - $379
DDR5-6000 CL36 - G.skill F5-6000U3636E16GX2 - $329 (open box return)
I would love to hear any opinions on which one would be the most appropriate given that this will function as a daily driver build server with mild CPU and memory overclocking, in well-vented case with good thermals. The perfectionist in me is leaning toward the G.skill CL32 RAM, but perhaps that is absolute overkill...

Thank you so much for your time!


----------



## elbramso

Well I'm back on the msi unify x board now. Anyone an idea why I can't boot with more than 6666 even though my apex board can boot with 7000mhz using same cpu and kit?


----------



## Afferin

rhildinger said:


> I hope I'm not violating forum rules by asking for DDR5 RAM recommendations here... I'm building a Linux build server out of a MSI Z690i Unify motherboard and i9-12900K, integrated video, no GFX card. The following DDR5 ram is avaiable at my local MicroCenter:
> 
> DDR5-6200 CL36 - Corsair CMT32GX5M2X6200 - $499
> DDR5-6400 CL32 - G.skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2 - $479
> DDR5-6000 CL36 - G.skill F5-6000J3636F16GX2 - $429
> DDR5-5600 CL36 - Corsair CMT32GX5M2X5600 - $399
> DDR5-6000 CL40 - G.skill F5-6000J4040F16GX2 - $379
> DDR5-6000 CL36 - G.skill F5-6000U3636E16GX2 - $329 (open box return)
> I would love to hear any opinions on which one would be the most appropriate given that this will function as a daily driver build server with mild CPU and memory overclocking, in well-vented case with good thermals. The perfectionist in me is leaning toward the G.skill CL32 RAM, but perhaps that is absolute overkill...
> 
> Thank you so much for your time!


If you're planning to do some serious OC'ing, I recommend the 6400CL32 or 6200CL36 kits. They're both Hynix which have shown over time to OC pretty well. If you're concerned with temps, I'd lean more towards the Corsair kit as they tend to run significantly cooler than the GSkill kits!


----------



## asdkj1740

rhildinger said:


> I hope I'm not violating forum rules by asking for DDR5 RAM recommendations here... I'm building a Linux build server out of a MSI Z690i Unify motherboard and i9-12900K, integrated video, no GFX card. The following DDR5 ram is avaiable at my local MicroCenter:
> 
> DDR5-6200 CL36 - Corsair CMT32GX5M2X6200 - $499
> DDR5-6400 CL32 - G.skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2 - $479
> DDR5-6000 CL36 - G.skill F5-6000J3636F16GX2 - $429
> DDR5-5600 CL36 - Corsair CMT32GX5M2X5600 - $399
> DDR5-6000 CL40 - G.skill F5-6000J4040F16GX2 - $379
> DDR5-6000 CL36 - G.skill F5-6000U3636E16GX2 - $329 (open box return)
> I would love to hear any opinions on which one would be the most appropriate given that this will function as a daily driver build server with mild CPU and memory overclocking, in well-vented case with good thermals. The perfectionist in me is leaning toward the G.skill CL32 RAM, but perhaps that is absolute overkill...
> 
> Thank you so much for your time!


6000U3636E16GX2 samsung, 60c easy at 1.3v xmp
6000J4040F16GX2 samsung
CMT32GX5M2X5600 samsung, better cooled 
6000J3636F16GX2 samsung


----------



## elbramso

asdkj1740 said:


> no idea.
> it seems that the problem you have with unify is exactly what some apex users here are complaining about.
> the matter of frequency ceilings on two channels with different trace lengths.
> they are supposed to be different simply because they are wired to different dimm slots.
> have you checked the frequency ceilings of two slots on your unifyx?


Took a while but I tested it now.
Both sticks have no issue to boot with 7000 on Slot B but fail on Slot A. Highest I could go with both sticks on Slot A was 6600    
That is the exact issue which many Apex users have... Did't think MSI was affected by this as well. 
OR is there another reason for this?


----------



## Nizzen

elbramso said:


> Took a while but I tested it now.
> Both sticks have no issue to boot with 7000 on Slot B but fail on Slot A. Highest I could go with both sticks on Slot A was 6600
> That is the exact issue which many Apex users have... Did't think MSI was affected by this as well.
> OR is there another reason for this?


Early adopters syndrome 😅


----------



## db000

Did some really small tweaks few days ago to the tRFCpb and Tertiarys. Nothing incredible. Still solid as a rock. Picking up the 12900KS later today.








+
tXP 4, tPPD 0

@Nizzen I like the flag  but the text is wrong


----------



## asdkj1740

elbramso said:


> Took a while but I tested it now.
> Both sticks have no issue to boot with 7000 on Slot B but fail on Slot A. Highest I could go with both sticks on Slot A was 6600
> That is the exact issue which many Apex users have... Did't think MSI was affected by this as well.
> OR is there another reason for this?


fyi,
plenty of msi users claim msi has no xmp issue with gskill 6000u3636e samsung kit, while msi kept rolling out beta bios with change logs stating "fixing samsung kit" etc.


----------



## elbramso

asdkj1740 said:


> fyi,
> plenty of msi users claim msi has no xmp issue with gskill 6000u3636e samsung kit, while msi kept rolling out beta bios with change logs stating "fixing samsung kit" etc.


I'm on Hynix Dims. Should I try some beta BIOS ;-) ?


----------



## Nizzen

db000 said:


> Did some really small tweaks few days ago to the tRFCpb and Tertiarys. Nothing incredible. Still solid as a rock. Picking up the 12900KS later today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> tXP 4, tPPD 0
> 
> @Nizzen I like the flag  but the text is wrong


I love sweeden, but I don't know why there is a sweedish flag there, when I'm in Norway 😅


----------



## db000

Nizzen said:


> I love sweeden, but I don't know why there is a sweedish flag there, when I'm in Norway 😅


Haha  We unite in OC, but in Skiing we are real competitors 😂


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Hello there. I have bought Z690 Maximus Formula. Now I realised that was a mistake because of 4 DIMMS, or can I just use two and will it be fine?

I can still trade it for the Apex Z690 and I have 12900KS on the way as well.

Any suggestions appreciated!


----------



## Afferin

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Hello there. I have bought Z690 Maximus Formula. Now I realised that was a mistake because of 4 DIMMS, or can I just use two and will it be fine?
> 
> I can still trade it for the Apex Z690 and I have 12900KS on the way as well.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated!


I use 2 sticks on my Formula and am currently running 6800CL32.


----------



## Herald

elbramso said:


> Took a while but I tested it now.
> Both sticks have no issue to boot with 7000 on Slot B but fail on Slot A. Highest I could go with both sticks on Slot A was 6600
> That is the exact issue which many Apex users have... Did't think MSI was affected by this as well.
> OR is there another reason for this?


Well, its not the exact issue. The apex ones cant pass 6000 (mine cant even boot at 4800 on 1t!!). Wish i had your unify 😎


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Afferin said:


> I use 2 sticks on my Formula and am currently running 6800CL32.


Oh so it's fine? No need to worry basically?


----------



## 7empe

6560 c28 1t
Apex 11/2021

(Finally resonable latency for 8C+8c).


----------



## Afferin

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Oh so it's fine? No need to worry basically?


It will likely vary from board to board and CPU to CPU. On my last 12900k, I was hardstuck at 6600CL32. On this one, I break 6800 easily. But as far as my motherboard has gone, I've had virtually no issues with my RAM. If you want a consistent product, you could use the Apex or a Unify. I think the Formula is a bit more of a gamble (especially if you want 1T), but it likely will work fine!


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> 6560 c28 1t
> Apex 11/2021
> 
> (Finally resonable latency for 8C+8c).
> 
> View attachment 2554754


Nice 🤩


----------



## dragn09

bclk messes up aida results ;>


----------



## Nizzen

dragn09 said:


> bclk messes up aida results ;>


True, and so does background programs and services


----------



## 7empe

dragn09 said:


> bclk messes up aida results ;>


No aida, no cry


----------



## rent0n

Where can one download the A22 bios for the Unify-X?


----------



## 7empe

Re-iteration of the 6500 C28 1T. Lower voltages and tWTR at the limit. Stable in memtests, gaming, y-cruncher.
Watercooled with EKWB Monarch.

vdd 1.57
vddq 1.50
tx 1.425
mc 1.25
sa 0.95


----------



## Aurosonic

Does TXP=4 PPD=0 has any effect on DDR5 like it was on DDR4 lowering latency by 2ns? I can't see any difference with DDR5


----------



## db000

Installed the 12900KS today and updated BIOS to 1403. No issues with my Apex. 6600 CL30 2T still rock solid. Will be tuning this weekend ☕


----------



## Nizzen

Aurosonic said:


> Does TXP=4 PPD=0 has any effect on DDR5 like it was on DDR4 lowering latency by 2ns? I can't see any difference with DDR5


No effect on rocketlake. I think last effect was with 10 series cpu's?
Haven't tested on ddr5


----------



## newls1

@bscool Can I PLEASE have some assistance?! First time using DDR5 on my MSI Z690 Carbon board. Memory is G.Skill 

*6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*

I just installed everything and flashed board to latest bios on MSI's website. Loaded XMP and it boots right away all stock @ 6400MHz but errors out in memtest pro after 15% or so. I changed a few option trying to stop the error but im getting so overwhelmed!! DDR4 was so much easier!! Ive read thru several pages here but seems most use ASUS boards and im on The MSI Carbon board. Im clueless now on voltages (there seems to be so many for DDR5) on what to set them too. Can someone please offer me up some advice on tweaking these timing and speed to get some better performance PLEASE!! Ill attach a few pics so you can see. Would love 6600 (give or take speeds) but with good timings and all. I would greatly appreciate any feedback!


----------



## bscool

@newls1 I replied to you PM

@owikh84 can help you more with MSI settings or someone with MSI I just use trial and errored timings and voltages and MSI can use lower voltages from what I have seen so I am not sure about MSI.


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> @newls1 I replied to you PM
> 
> @owikh84 can help you more with MSI settings or someone with MSI I just use trial and errored timings and voltages and MSI can use lower voltages from what I have seen so I am not sure about MSI.


thanks bscool 

So far straight XMP 6400 settings and I error out, but i found i error out a little longer in memtest if i LOWER SA Voltage to 1.20 and VDD2 Voltage to 1.310, but will still eventually error out near 15%. Straight XMP 6400 settings error out right at 3-4%. Also found out that if I set TRDWR_SG and DG settings, I get an instant no post. so lowering Voltage helps but still not stable. please someone with an MSI Carbon board chime in here please!!


----------



## asdkj1740

newls1 said:


> @bscool Can I PLEASE have some assistance?! First time using DDR5 on my MSI Z690 Carbon board. Memory is G.Skill
> 
> *6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*
> 
> I just installed everything and flashed board to latest bios on MSI's website. Loaded XMP and it boots right away all stock @ 6400MHz but errors out in memtest pro after 15% or so. I changed a few option trying to stop the error but im getting so overwhelmed!! DDR4 was so much easier!! Ive read thru several pages here but seems most use ASUS boards and im on The MSI Carbon board. Im clueless now on voltages (there seems to be so many for DDR5) on what to set them too. Can someone please offer me up some advice on tweaking these timing and speed to get some better performance PLEASE!! Ill attach a few pics so you can see. Would love 6600 (give or take speeds) but with good timings and all. I would greatly appreciate any feedback!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555008
> View attachment 2555009


must be your own fault. msi is god of ddr5 on oc.net.


try a31





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## newls1

asdkj1740 said:


> must be your own fault. msi is god of ddr5 on oc.net.
> 
> 
> try a31
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beta/MP - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


well that obvious.. ddr5 is a new world to me. thanks for link, ill try A131 bios. Is that newer then the latest one on msi's site? Dates look the same


----------



## Arni90

newls1 said:


> @bscool Can I PLEASE have some assistance?! First time using DDR5 on my MSI Z690 Carbon board. Memory is G.Skill
> 
> *6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*
> 
> I just installed everything and flashed board to latest bios on MSI's website. Loaded XMP and it boots right away all stock @ 6400MHz but errors out in memtest pro after 15% or so. I changed a few option trying to stop the error but im getting so overwhelmed!! DDR4 was so much easier!! Ive read thru several pages here but seems most use ASUS boards and im on The MSI Carbon board. Im clueless now on voltages (there seems to be so many for DDR5) on what to set them too. Can someone please offer me up some advice on tweaking these timing and speed to get some better performance PLEASE!! Ill attach a few pics so you can see. Would love 6600 (give or take speeds) but with good timings and all. I would greatly appreciate any feedback!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555008
> View attachment 2555009


I suspect your motherboard might have some issues with that memory frequency.
What you can try:
Lower memory frequency to 6200, or even 6000, and test stability.
VDD2 is the most important voltage for the memory controller and frequency. Somewhere in the region of 1.25V to 1.50V should be the optimal value for your CPU and board.
CPU VDDQ sweetspots, and can start to give worse results above the sweetspot. Too high, and you simply won't POST

DRAM VDD and VDDQ are important for timings and frequency, primarily VDD. You might want to try 1.45V just to see if it helps.


----------



## opt33

@news1, you also need to set trefi back to auto until find stable setting, if running at 112,000 like the screenshot that will need more vdd than xmp.

regarding different bios, I have been on most of them for msi unify-x and those minor tweaks dont make unstable dram settings stable, or stable settings unstable. I can use same settings on all of them for several different samsung/hynix ddr5 kits.

Like Arni90 said, run dram voltage (vdd), dram vddq at 1.45v, MC 1.3ish, SA 1.2, cpu vddq 1.4, then try 6400 32-39-39 all rest mem settings auto, then 6200/6000 if 6400 errors. could be your 4 dimm mobo having issues, or ram, or mc on cpu. 

If still get errors, I would first send ram back and try second set. Of 7 sets I have tried, only 1 would not do xmp settings, it was same set as yours, even though it is the current best bin still can have bad samples.


----------



## asdkj1740

newls1 said:


> well that obvious.. ddr5 is a new world to me. thanks for link, ill try A131 bios. Is that newer then the latest one on msi's site? Dates look the same


the 7D30v13 currently on the product page should be "a30//130". so a31 or 131 should be newer.

try to raise cpu vddq a bit, like 1.4v or 1.45v or 1.5v.


----------



## sugi0lover

Before moving to the better CPU, this is my current setup.
no bclk oc, love the latency!

[OC setup]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5500Mhz , E Off, Cache 5200Mhz)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-40-40-26-305-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1304)
○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.2675v / SA 0.95v


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> MC 1.2675v


Insane IMC you got there! I need 1.375V mc to be stable @7000c30 tight.


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Insane IMC you got there! I need 1.375V mc to be stable @7000c30 tight.


Thanks, For 7200 30 41 40 ram timing, only 1.225v mc is needed.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> @news1, you also need to set trefi back to auto until find stable setting, if running at 112,000 like the screenshot that will need more vdd than xmp.
> 
> regarding different bios, I have been on most of them for msi unify-x and those minor tweaks dont make unstable dram settings stable, or stable settings unstable. I can use same settings on all of them for several different samsung/hynix ddr5 kits.
> 
> Like Arni90 said, run dram voltage (vdd), dram vddq at 1.45v, MC 1.3ish, SA 1.2, cpu vddq 1.4, then try 6400 32-39-39 all rest mem settings auto, then 6200/6000 if 6400 errors. could be your 4 dimm mobo having issues, or ram, or mc on cpu.
> 
> If still get errors, I would first send ram back and try second set. Of 7 sets I have tried, only 1 would not do xmp settings, it was same set as yours, even though it is the current best bin still can have bad samples.


Thank you very much for the reply sir. I will certainly try this out. I hate to ask such a noob question, but i thought cpu vddq was the same as dram vddq, apparently im wrong. Are these 2 different settings and are they in the same location? and how does MSI "word" the MC voltage that you want me to put at 1.3, is it called MC voltage in bios? also what is a safe max dram voltage to use on ddr5?


----------



## asdkj1740

7000 kit.............


----------



## asdkj1740

newls1 said:


> Thank you very much for the reply sir. I will certainly try this out. I hate to ask such a noob question, but i thought cpu vddq was the same as dram vddq, apparently im wrong. Are these 2 different settings and are they in the same location? and how does MSI "word" the MC voltage that you want me to put at 1.3, is it called MC voltage in bios? also what is a safe max dram voltage to use on ddr5?


cpu vdd=mc=vimc=vdd2
cpu vddq=tx vddq

we have dual vdd and dual vddq, cpu has vdd and vddq, dram has vdd and vddq as well.


----------



## Lord Alzov

7000CL30
STABLE


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Well, as much as I read more I don´t go anywhere !
Actually I dind´t know that Asus Glacial or any other 4 dimms board has so many problems related to OC. I´m stuck at 5600 Mhz 36-36-36-72 ( Corsair with samsung chip ) and there´s no how to go beyond that.


----------



## ViTosS

sugi0lover said:


> Before moving to the better CPU, this is my current setup.
> no bclk oc, love the latency!
> 
> [OC setup]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP95) / all cores (P 5500Mhz , E Off, Cache 5200Mhz)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-40-40-26-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1304)
> ○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.2675v / SA 0.95v
> View attachment 2555112


Insane dude, congrats, I know you don't run SOTTR bench anymore due to people using tweaked Windows, but from your latest setup you scored 368fps, how much do you score now?


----------



## newls1

random question. Im using the iGPU on my 12900KS until next gen gpus come out. Is this going to limit my mem OC at all?


----------



## centvalny

Testing imc


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I'd like to post a warning!
Be care when proceeding a critical update! Especially firmware / BIOS updates...

Keep in mind your Overclock could not be 100% stable, and it can fail during a critical update process, especially firmware updates. 

It doesn't matter if your CPU, Memory, under voltage or any other setting looks like stable for long time... 

If you are going to proceed a critical update, there is a chance of failure... and a failure at this point will be catastrophic and a possibility of a brick event is real.

I extremely recommend every time you are going to do a BIOS update or firmware update, save your settings, load a BIOS default and use standard CPU frequencies, voltages and memory clocks during the update process.

A fault at this time can brick your MB and CPU.

Adopt a good practice of saving your BIOS settings in a free slot and load Bios default before all hardware update.

If you have a dual BIOS MB, always load BIOS defaults before and after switching from one BIOs TO the other.
I know it's no a pleasure process, and take time... but The time you will spend to umbrick your MB or RMA is much long and painful...

I hope I'm helping you with this simple advice !

You are not a beta tester, and you're supposed to have fun overclocking...

Keep safe and alive....

High voltages ad high frequencies will not burn your hardware... High power and High temps will... and a overclock failure at a critical moment will brick your MB/CPU. 

Hope I can help with these simple advice.


----------



## 7empe

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'd like to post a warning!
> Be care when proceeding a critical update! Especially firmware / BIOS updates...
> 
> Keep in mind your Overclock could not be 100% stable, and it can fail during a critical update process, especially firmware updates.
> 
> It doesn't matter if your CPU, Memory, under voltage or any other setting looks like stable for long time...
> 
> If you are going to proceed a critical update, there is a chance of failure... and a failure at this point will be catastrophic and a possibility of a brick event is real.
> 
> I extremely recommend every time you are going to do a BIOS update or firmware update, save your settings, load a BIOS default and use standard CPU frequencies, voltages and memory clocks during the update process.
> 
> A fault at this time can brick your MB and CPU.
> 
> Adopt a good practice of saving your BIOS settings in a free slot and load Bios default before all hardware update.
> 
> If you have a dual BIOS MB, always load BIOS defaults before and after switching from one BIOs TO the other.
> I know it's no a pleasure process, and take time... but The time you will spend to umbrick your MB or RMA is much long and painful...
> 
> I hope I'm helping you with this simple advice !
> 
> You are not a beta tester, and you're supposed to have fun overclocking...
> 
> Keep safe and alive....
> 
> High voltages ad high frequencies will not burn your hardware... High power and High temps will... and a overclock failure at a critical moment will brick your MB/CPU.
> 
> Hope I can help with these simple advice.


Yep, I bricked my Strix Z390 with bios flash at not-so-stable memory oc... Since then I always do bios flash on the default bios settings, after cmos clear.


----------



## matherror

newls1 said:


> @bscool Can I PLEASE have some assistance?! First time using DDR5 on my MSI Z690 Carbon board. Memory is G.Skill
> 
> *6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK*
> 
> I just installed everything and flashed board to latest bios on MSI's website. Loaded XMP and it boots right away all stock @ 6400MHz but errors out in memtest pro after 15% or so. I changed a few option trying to stop the error but im getting so overwhelmed!! DDR4 was so much easier!! Ive read thru several pages here but seems most use ASUS boards and im on The MSI Carbon board. Im clueless now on voltages (there seems to be so many for DDR5) on what to set them too. Can someone please offer me up some advice on tweaking these timing and speed to get some better performance PLEASE!! Ill attach a few pics so you can see. Would love 6600 (give or take speeds) but with good timings and all. I would greatly appreciate any feedback!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555008
> View attachment 2555009


Same bord same memory kit only difference I have 12700k but problem is the same. I guess my IMC was bad now I see not related to IMC. Here is my topic . Maybe problem with bios or 4dimm mobo...








z690 msi carbon wifi + 12700k DDR5 6400mhz problem (...


Hello everyone , I bought ddr5 gskil cl32 6400mhz 32gb kit. I'm getting crash games 6000mhz+ speeds and sometimes getting Qcode 55 restarting pc. No xmp and bellow 6000mhz just fine no crash .What is wrong with my setup ? My cpu imc really bad or ? Thanks for help.




www.overclock.net


----------



## newls1

matherror said:


> Same bord same memory kit only difference I have 12700k but problem is the same. I guess my IMC was bad now I see not related to IMC. Here is my topic . Maybe problem with bios or 4dimm mobo...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> z690 msi carbon wifi + 12700k DDR5 6400mhz problem (...
> 
> 
> Hello everyone , I bought ddr5 gskil cl32 6400mhz 32gb kit. I'm getting crash games 6000mhz+ speeds and sometimes getting Qcode 55 restarting pc. No xmp and bellow 6000mhz just fine no crash .What is wrong with my setup ? My cpu imc really bad or ? Thanks for help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


when i get home later im goibg to flash to latest beta bios and keep trying. I went into this project knowing damn well acquiring a DDR5 OC was going to take me weeks to learn DDR5 and annoy people here with my questions! I hope its not my IMC as youd think a 12900KS would have a good one, but who knows.... I can boot 6800 and play in windows and not adjust any voltage other tthen whatever XMP set, so theres that??!! Maybe I have hope. Just want to obtain a 6600 speed with good timings... thats my goal, should be easy I Would have thought. guessing not


----------



## 7empe

Guys, on ADL when increasing ddr5 frequency does vcore may need to increase as well to stabilize fpu, even if it was perfectly stable with the lower frequency?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> when i get home later im goibg to flash to latest beta bios and keep trying. I went into this project knowing damn well acquiring a DDR5 OC was going to take me weeks to learn DDR5 and annoy people here with my questions! I hope its not my IMC as youd think a 12900KS would have a good one, but who knows.... I can boot 6800 and play in windows and not adjust any voltage other tthen whatever XMP set, so theres that??!! Maybe I have hope. Just want to obtain a 6600 speed with good timings... thats my goal, should be easy I Would have thought. guessing not


For easier 6200+ ddr5 ocing would stick with 2 dimm mobos. If the new apex release has the stability issue sorted, the only 2 ddr5 mobos I would own would be msi unify-x or new fixed apex. 4 dimm mobos just add one more potential limit to ram/imc/mobo quality potential limits.


----------



## asdkj1740

*G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB and Ripjaws S5 Series DDR5 Memory Receive Red Dot Design Award 2022*

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

we love red, for sure.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

asdkj1740 said:


> *G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB and Ripjaws S5 Series DDR5 Memory Receive Red Dot Design Award 2022*
> 
> yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
> 
> we love red, for sure.


Is it because it has the most code 55 and code 00?


----------



## newls1

ok, little update. Updated to Beta Bios 131 for my MSI Carbon and stock XMP seems to work and test ok. Here is a screen shot of my 100% stock XMP settings, can someone help me tweak them for better performance Please!! *(*edit) if you right click pic and open in new tab the pic becomes larger. IDK why the pic is small.*


----------



## sugi0lover

moved to 12900K bin forum
Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend has 12900K (SP103), 12900KS (SP96, 95) and this is the comparison with CineR23 10 min.


12900KS SP95 (P105 E76)
P53 E42 R44 1.26v, Max Temp 79C










12900KS SP96 (P108 E72)
P53 E42 R44 1.25v, Max Temp 77C










12900K SP103 (P115 E79)
P53 E42 R44 1.21v, Max Temp 74C


----------



## newls1

Another small update: Here is a current pic of where im at, Is it possible to get me to 100gb/s on all read/write/copy with adjusting settings? if so, which ones? @bscool


----------



## Arni90

newls1 said:


> Another small update: Here is a current pic of where im at, Is it possible to get me to 100gb/s on all read/write/copy with adjusting settings? if so, which ones? @bscool
> 
> View attachment 2555271


tWRPRE and tWRPDEN down, try 60, then walk down, absolute floor should be tCWL + 6 or so.
tRDPRE down, try 10 to start with.
Ignore tWR, tRTP, and tWTR_S / _L
Tertiary _sg and _dg timings can also go quite a bit down


----------



## asdkj1740

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Is it because it has the most code 55 and code 00?


error=red


----------



## db000

My first 59 with my new 12900KS(99 P-cores). I was having a real struggle with 1403, so went back one step to 1304. Dont think there is anything wrong with 1403. Messy picture w/o TM5 and hwinfo launched after y-cruncher, but it passed. Be back later during the weekend with a better screenshot Time for some more  

6600-30-40-40-30-2T-360 1.52v VDD 1.52v VDDQ
1.52v VDDQ TX
1.20v VCCSA
1.34375 MC (Previously run 1.31 with old 12900K, will work this down. I feel it's a tad bit too high for 6600 2T).


----------



## newls1

Arni90 said:


> tWRPRE and tWRPDEN down, try 60, then walk down, absolute floor should be tCWL + 6 or so.
> tRDPRE down, try 10 to start with.
> Ignore tWR, tRTP, and tWTR_S / _L
> Tertiary _sg and _dg timings can also go quite a bit down


Awesome, thank you so much for the input and will try this later on tonight. Question, why is my tRAS at 102 when i keep seeing others bottoming this primary timing to the floor? I see some at 28, 30, 32, etc... Can I do this too? And what would be voltages you would use, and what is max safe? I have 6 140mm fans blowing directly over ram as my radiators are directly above it so cooling is really good..


----------



## amethy

z690i unify 12900ks 7600tm5


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks, For 7200 30 41 40 ram timing, only 1.225v mc is needed.
> View attachment 2555113


Perhaps you know. I can currently boot 7400 1T. But it isn't stable. What voltages would you adjust to try and get higher frequencies? Is that mostly cpu vddq? Or is it more related to something else?


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Perhaps you know. I can currently boot 7400 1T. But it isn't stable. What voltages would you adjust to try and get higher frequencies? Is that mostly cpu vddq? Or is it more related to something else?


7400 1T is awesome, even just for benching. For Ram OC, I adjust vdd,vddq,tx,sa,imc, not core related voltages.


----------



## newls1

i need some serious help please. Ive been at this all day using the MSI Carbon and G.Skill 6400MT/s CL32 set ram. Can someone with a MSI boardplease assist me with how and when to set "what" voltage to gain stability. Im just so confused and have spent all day messing with stuff and now i find myself out of patience. Can someone using MSI Carbon or similiar board maybe post up your OC 6400+ settings so I can see what im doing wrong. Sorry for all the posts but i know there are some really smart people here that could fix this in 4 seconds....


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

newls1 said:


> i need some serious help please. Ive been at this all day using the MSI Carbon and G.Skill 6400MT/s CL32 set ram. Can someone with a MSI boardplease assist me with how and when to set "what" voltage to gain stability. Im just so confused and have spent all day messing with stuff and now i find myself out of patience. Can someone using MSI Carbon or similiar board maybe post up your OC 6400+ settings so I can see what im doing wrong. Sorry for all the posts but i know there are some really smart people here that could fix this in 4 seconds....


Does your board have any OC profiles you can use as a starting point?


----------



## newls1

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Does your board have any OC profiles you can use as a starting point?


yes sir, but timings are pretty terrible... like CL40 and up for 6200 speeds iirc


----------



## stahlhart

newls1 said:


> yes sir, but timings are pretty terrible... like CL40 and up for 6200 speeds iirc


Use that as a starting point, and then tighten from there. First see how high the kit will clock and remain stable, then how low you can get CAS and still boot / remain stable, then fine tune remaining primaries, secondaries and tertiaries from there to improve latency. If you're talking about better than vendor specs you need time and patience to get there.

I was only able to get an additional 400MHz and 40 --> 36 CAS with mine, but I have the limitations of four slots and probably a weaker memory controller on this 12700K, but it's solid and passes all stress tests easily. Lessons were learned, and will make different hardware choices next time.


----------



## newls1

stahlhart said:


> Use that as a starting point, and then tighten from there. First see how high the kit will clock and remain stable, then how low you can get CAS and still boot / remain stable, then fine tune remaining primaries, secondaries and tertiaries from there to improve latency. If you're talking about better than vendor specs you need time and patience to get there.
> 
> I was only able to get an additional 400MHz and 40 --> 36 CAS with mine, but I have the limitations of four slots and probably a weaker memory controller on this 12700K, but it's solid and passes all stress tests easily. Lessons were learned, and will make different hardware choices next time.


I have a 4 slot board to (MSI Carbon) I have XMP 6400 working but really trying to get my timings better and get READ/WRITE/COPY over 100GB/s like I see everyone else having @ 6400MT/s speeds but cant figure out what voltage does what and which "sequence" to mess with them. ive done endless googling here and various other forums/websites and im just confused and it seems everytime i make an adjustment, i get code 55 and endless reboot. Im 100% sure if I can just figure out what voltage does what, i can get further. Trying to find out what voltage is the MC voltage in this bios (what wording they call it) cause i dont think ive even changed that yet....

***EDIT*
Im slowly tweaking each setting and found that if I change tRDWR_SG/DG off "20" ill have a no post condition. I see most here running this @ 17 so is there a voltage I need to increase to get this to post @ 17? Im @ 1.42v on ram voltage already. This is the best I have so far, what do you see that I can change?


----------



## opt33

@News 1 

"cpu vdd2" is mem controller voltage in msi bios but once you can run a given frequency/command rate, ie 6400 cr2 stable you shouldnt need to increase that voltage, until increasing frequency or changing command rate.

when you tighten timings, it is "dram voltage" and "dram vddq" that you will need to increase, easiest to just keep them the same. 

"cpu vddq" on msi you can just keep near but less than dram voltage (vdd) and dram vddq.

TWR 100 slows write/copy speeds, should easily be able to get it to 30 or below without much voltage adjustment.


----------



## Werolol

Мsi Carbon
Напряжение драм 1,38 В, 1,25 В VDD2. Кингстон kf560c40bbk2-32 (Hynix)


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> @News 1
> 
> "cpu vdd2" is mem controller voltage in msi bios but once you can run a given frequency/command rate, ie 6400 cr2 stable you shouldnt need to increase that voltage, until increasing frequency or changing command rate.
> 
> when you tighten timings, it is "dram voltage" and "dram vddq" that you will need to increase, easiest to just keep them the same.
> 
> "cpu vddq" on msi you can just keep near but less than dram voltage (vdd) and dram vddq.
> 
> TWR 100 slows write/copy speeds, should easily be able to get it to 30 or below without much voltage adjustment.





opt33 said:


> @news1, you also need to set trefi back to auto until find stable setting, if running at 112,000 like the screenshot that will need more vdd than xmp.
> 
> regarding different bios, I have been on most of them for msi unify-x and those minor tweaks dont make unstable dram settings stable, or stable settings unstable. I can use same settings on all of them for several different samsung/hynix ddr5 kits.
> 
> Like Arni90 said, run dram voltage (vdd), dram vddq at 1.45v, MC 1.3ish, SA 1.2, cpu vddq 1.4, then try 6400 32-39-39 all rest mem settings auto, then 6200/6000 if 6400 errors. could be your 4 dimm mobo having issues, or ram, or mc on cpu.
> 
> If still get errors, I would first send ram back and try second set. Of 7 sets I have tried, only 1 would not do xmp settings, it was same set as yours, even though it is the current best bin still can have bad samples.


all this seemed to just aid in getting this system to post much better now!! OPT33 Thank you! Another question, TWR wont go below 48 in bios, so i cant set 30 or lower, is there another setting that controls this number somewhere? 

here is my current settings and progress so far


----------



## opt33

Put tWR back on auto, set tWR via tWRPRE and tWRPDEN to go below 48 on msi.

For example, set tWR auto, set tWRPRE and tWRPDEN both to 70, boot back up and see where tWR is. Then lower tWR as desired by lowering tWRPRE and tWRPDEN (lowering tWRPDEN by 6 will lower TWR by 6).

If you change tCWL will change tWR, so set tCWL where you want it first.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Put tWR back on auto, set tWR via tWRPRE and tWRPDEN to go below 48 on msi.
> 
> For example, set tWR auto, set tWRPRE and tWRPDEN both to 70, boot back up and see where tWR is. Then lower tWR as desired by lowering tWRPRE and tWRPDEN (lowering tWRPDEN by 6 will lower TWR by 6).
> 
> If you change tCWL will change tWR, so set tCWL where you want it first.


howin the hell do you guys figure this stuff out?!!Thanks a million, will do this injust a little an report back sir


----------



## Afferin

So after trying to reach for the stars by hitting 7000MHz on my Formula, my previously 100% stable 6800CL32 settings are no longer stable. No idea what happened. Maybe I pumped too much voltage into my DIMMs or something (was trying 1.6v VDD/VDDQ, 1.45v VDDQ TX). Back to 6600CL30 I go.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Put tWR back on auto, set tWR via tWRPRE and tWRPDEN to go below 48 on msi.
> 
> For example, set tWR auto, set tWRPRE and tWRPDEN both to 70, boot back up and see where tWR is. Then lower tWR as desired by lowering tWRPRE and tWRPDEN (lowering tWRPDEN by 6 will lower TWR by 6).
> 
> If you change tCWL will change tWR, so set tCWL where you want it first.


wont post once i touch these settings.Am i supposed to change both settings to the same number. I chose to enter 64 for both and it wont post. I did set tWR back to auto and tcwl to 28 prior....
**EDIT  Back to where i started as i saved a bios profile.... and back to my original problem. THe PC on a cold boot takes FOREVER to post/train and sometimes it wont. What voltage would you suspect to change for this?*


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> wont post once i touch these settings.Am i supposed to change both settings to the same number. I chose to enter 64 for both and it wont post. I did set tWR back to auto and tcwl to 28 prior....


try 74 for both, just need to get into windows first and see where twr is.

or change twr back to 48, boot back into bios, see where both are, then subtract 6 from both with twr on auto. should set twr to 42, then lower from there.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> try 74 for both, just need to get into windows first and see where twr is.
> 
> or change twr back to 48, boot back into bios, see where both are, then subtract 6 from both with twr on auto. should set twr to 42, then lower from there.


ok did this and it sets twr to 100. went back in and set twrpre and twrpden to 66 and it booted but still only get to 48 twr. So I tried twrpre and twrpden to 60 and no boot.. Back to 48 twr with saved bios settings. this is NO boot settings, see anything?


----------



## newls1

I back to my saved profile but I did lower CPU VDDQ to 1.315 down from 1.40 and this seems to have helped my LONG POST / TRAINING issue so far. If I can just get to 100GB/s + on read/copy/write ill be done and ill stop annoying everyone! Here is a pic of my current settings and hoping someone can tell me what to further change to meet my goal? Thanks a million everyone


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> ok did this and it sets twr to 100. went back in and set twrpre and twrpden to 66 and it booted but still only get to 48 twr. So I tried twrpre and twrpden to 60 and no boot.. Back to 48 twr with saved bios settings. this is NO boot settings, see anything?


When twr is set to 48....look at value for twrpe and twrpden on auto. Then set twr to auto and set twrpe/twrpden to ONLY 6 lower and see if boots to twr 42. If twr is not on auto, it will use whatever value you put in for it.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Anybody know what's the highestfully stable daily use memory frequency at ambient? I've seen a few 7200 2T profiles. Has anyone gone higher?


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> When twr is set to 48....look at value for twrpe and twrpden on auto. Then set twr to auto and set twrpe/twrpden to ONLY 6 lower and see if boots to twr 42. If twr is not on auto, it will use whatever value you put in for it.


ill have to try this again on monday sir. Chief called me into work early so ill be on dutyfor the next 36hrs. When I get home monday , this will be the first thing i do. THANK YOU Again


----------



## Arni90

amethy said:


> z690i unify 12900ks 7600tm5
> 
> View attachment 2555357


How?
Did you just set those voltages, or are there some training algorithms that needs to be set?


----------



## opt33

Arni90 said:


> How?
> Did you just set those voltages, or are there some training algorithms that needs to be set?


If all 12900ks had imc capable of 7600 I would buy one, but seen several 12900ks duds as well. And even with binned cpu, still have to bin ram kits, only 1 of 6 of mine will do 7000+, and wont do over 7200.


----------



## matique

Arni90 said:


> How?
> Did you just set those voltages, or are there some training algorithms that needs to be set?


First off I guess it's because it's a unify itx. Even I could do 7000c30 on it. Past that it's probably strong cpu IMC, and binned ram to get it there. Very impressive still.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> When twr is set to 48....look at value for twrpe and twrpden on auto. Then set twr to auto and set twrpe/twrpden to ONLY 6 lower and see if boots to twr 42. If twr is not on auto, it will use whatever value you put in for it.


I just ordered a Unify X motherboard with the hopes of better ram clocking, so i think this was a good choice. it comes tomorrow and will copy all my prior ram settings and cross my fingers i can have better mem performance. any tips/tricks i should know about this board sir?


----------



## Aurosonic

That's all my Apex Z690 11-2021 and OEM Hynix are capable of:

6400 C28 1T:














6500 C28 1T:









6800 C30 2T:


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> I just ordered a Unify X motherboard with the hopes of better ram clocking, so i think this was a good choice. it comes tomorrow and will copy all my prior ram settings and cross my fingers i can have better mem performance. any tips/tricks i should know about this board sir?


Mainly use bios 7D28vA2 from MSI site dated 2022-02-25. I had no problem with any MSI bios until recently tried 7D28vA3 final version, using that bios I could not post above 6000 in CR1 and none of previous settings on multiple ram kits worked, most wouldnt post, and difficulties above 6400. Flashed back to A2 and 6400cr1 stable again and bench 7000 again. Thought maybe it was a bad flash to A3, tried it again, same issue, back to A2 and again no problems. 

7D28A3 says update cpu microcode for 12900ks but doubt necessary for 12900ks with manual OC. Clearly they changed something with ram as well.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Mainly use bios 7D28vA2 from MSI site dated 2022-02-25. I had no problem with any MSI bios until recently tried 7D28vA3 final version, using that bios I could not post above 6000 in CR1 and none of previous settings on multiple ram kits worked, most wouldnt post, and difficulties above 6400. Flashed back to A2 and 6400cr1 stable again and bench 7000 again. Thought maybe it was a bad flash to A3, tried it again, same issue, back to A2 and again no problems.
> 
> 7D28A3 says update cpu microcode for 12900ks but doubt necessary for 12900ks with manual OC. Clearly they changed something with ram as well.


thank you for this info... i do infact have a 12900KS, but my carbon board posted and reconized the "KS" cpu with a bios from janurary... so Ill do exactly what you said above and get that bios. Thanks


----------



## centvalny

Testing imc with ks



Request Trial Download AIDA64 Engineer (beta) 6.60.5944 | AIDA64


----------



## morph.

Looked away from this for a while as my Gskill Samsung 6000 2x16 kit wasn't very overclockable and I was only able to tighten its timings. But now that I finally pulled the trigger and got a set of gskill 6400 skhynix I'm hoping to push it a little bit past xmp.

What's this new trefi I'm seeing everyone use now? 130560 instead of 65535? Trawled through most of the posts and cant seem to find the reasoning or maths about it thanks!


----------



## db000

morph. said:


> Looked away from this for a while as my Gskill Samsung 6000 2x16 kit wasn't very overclockable and I was only able to tighten its timings. But now that I finally pulled the trigger and got a set of skill 6400 skhynix I'm hoping to push it a little bit past xmp.
> 
> What's this new trefi I'm seeing everyone use now? 130560 instead of 65535? Trawled through most of the posts and cant seem to find the reasoning or maths about it thanks!


The higher you can go the better, you can run *262143* max. I run 123456 for the fun of it. Make sure to keep the temps in check 
Happy for you on the 6400, I've had really fun time with mine. Previously I had Dominator 5600CL36 Sammys with 12900K.


----------



## morph.

db000 said:


> The higher you can go the better, you can run *262143* max. I run 123456 for the fun of it. Make sure to keep the temps in check
> Happy for you on the 6400, I've had really fun time with mine. Previously I had Dominator 5600CL36 Sammys with 12900K.


ah I thought the trefi hard limit was 65535 heh


----------



## morph.

Anyway, I haven't tested stability but managed to pull this out of the bag, it is mildly tightened for now... Not really sure how far I can push these DIMMs on semi-active/passive cooling (not direct - top fan intake downwards towards DIMMs) to them. VDD/VDDQ/TX are all set to 1.48v imc at 1.385v

Tripple 100GB/s+ is the target if I can get sub 50ns that will take the cake as this is a 4slot board.


----------



## morph.

Afferin said:


> I use 2 sticks on my Formula and am currently running 6800CL32.


Nice.. care to share what timings, voltages and cooling for your dimms etc..? I have a Formula as well


----------



## Afferin

morph. said:


> Nice.. care to share what timings, voltages and cooling for your dimms etc..? I have a Formula as well


It recently became unstable for whatever reason, but I was running 1.55v VDD, 1.52v VDDQ, 1.275v IMC, 0.95v SA, 1.45v VDDQ TX. Primary timings were 32-40-40-30. I didn't set secondary/tertiary timings because I was still trying to push for 7000 (which may have been a mistake on my part... everything went wrong after my first time booting at 7000).

I use the Lian Li Evo inversed, so my RAM gets fresh air from my bottom intake. Idle temps were 35-40c, with serious load temps being around 55c

From my experience, raising IMC voltage too much actually caused more instability. It was a long, tedious process to find the "sweetspot" IMC voltage!


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Mainly use bios 7D28vA2 from MSI site dated 2022-02-25. I had no problem with any MSI bios until recently tried 7D28vA3 final version, using that bios I could not post above 6000 in CR1 and none of previous settings on multiple ram kits worked, most wouldnt post, and difficulties above 6400. Flashed back to A2 and 6400cr1 stable again and bench 7000 again. Thought maybe it was a bad flash to A3, tried it again, same issue, back to A2 and again no problems.
> 
> 7D28A3 says update cpu microcode for 12900ks but doubt necessary for 12900ks with manual OC. Clearly they changed something with ram as well.


Getting ready to have amazon drop this board off and getting my bios file ready, just a quick question, have you tried the beta A31 dated 3/18/22 on the google drive, or should I just take your advice and just use the A2 dated 2/25/22 official on MSI's website? Appreciate your feedback!


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Getting ready to have amazon drop this board off and getting my bios file ready, just a quick question, have you tried the beta A31 dated 3/18/22 on the google drive, or should I just take your advice and just use the A2 dated 2/25/22 official on MSI's website? Appreciate your feedback!


yes, use A2. A31 beta was prior to A3 final, ie A31 is not a fix of A3. A23 and A24 were betas for A2. Once stable on A2, then if you want to try A3 you wont get irritated if ram oc/xmp doesnt work well, you will just know to flash back to A2.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> yes, use A2. A31 beta was prior to A3 final, ie A31 is not a fix of A3. A23 and A24 were betas for A2. Once stable on A2, then if you want to try A3 you wont get irritated if ram oc/xmp doesnt work well, you will just know to flash back to A2.


excellent, thank you


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> yes, use A2. A31 beta was prior to A3 final, ie A31 is not a fix of A3. A23 and A24 were betas for A2. Once stable on A2, then if you want to try A3 you wont get irritated if ram oc/xmp doesnt work well, you will just know to flash back to A2.


I cant get the board to apply my CPU VDDQ voltage that i manually enter. Have you ran into this issue? Im setting 1.45v,but no matter what I set, it only applies 1.366v... I believe this is holding me back on my 6800MHz attempt....

EDIT... I did a hard power reset by pulling to power cord and letting it rest for 1minute... now voltages are "as per i set".. very weird! Ok, booted 6800MHz now off to mem test this. 🤞🤞🤞

EDIT #2... Nope, cant even get to 10% in memtest without errors.......Can I post up my voltages and have assistance with what to change maybe?

EDIT 3 I was trying to copy buildziods exact settings for this board and 6800MHz, but that was a NO go... between my untested OC, and just copying ram settings I wasnt lucky enough to have the combo work.. I but bios back to stock and just working my way back up with NO CPU OC, and just working with ram. So far I got to nearly 50% with 6600MHz with XMP timings set and no other adjustments. So atleast I think my sticks are OK. Going to take it slow and bring everything up at a slow pace. 
*Quick question. It is better to bring the speed up and leave all timings at XMP, then once I can memtest 100% with a given speed, THEN start to adjust timings and such?*


----------



## opt33

@news1, that would be 9.9% longer than I would have thought. Without water cooling ram or binning several ram kits to find a cherry kit, doubt those settings are going to fly. 

That ram is rated 6400c32-39 at 1.4v. once you tighten up secondary/tertiary settings you may be at 1.45v (unless win lottery), then may need .04-.05v per each 200mhz.

I would start with 6600c32-39-39, twr at 18, tras 48 (you wont see performance difference), and twrwr_sg at 20 or 22.

cpu vdd2 (mc) 1.3-1.34 range
dram vdd and dram vddq 1.47, need to watch temps in hwinfo for vdd/vddq.
sa voltage not as critical I use 1.15-1.22 range
cpu vddq 1.38-1.4

once you have a stable run, then change only 1 or 2 settings at a time, and check stability.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> @news1, that would be 9.9% longer than I would have thought. Without water cooling ram or binning several ram kits to find a cherry kit, doubt those settings are going to fly.
> 
> That ram is rated 6400c32-39 at 1.4v. once you tighten up secondary/tertiary settings you may be at 1.45v (unless win lottery), then may need .04-.05v per each 200mhz.
> 
> I would start with 6600c32-39-39, twr at 18, tras 48 (you wont see performance difference), and twrwr_sg at 20 or 22.
> 
> cpu vdd2 (mc) 1.3-1.34 range
> dram vdd and dram vddq 1.47, need to watch temps in hwinfo for vdd/vddq.
> sa voltage not as critical I use 1.15-1.22 range
> cpu vddq 1.38-1.4
> 
> once you have a stable run, then change only 1 or 2 settings at a time, and check stability.


will do this right now, THank you...


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> will do this right now, THank you...


If doesnt post or errors, then use 6600 c34-39-39 with tcwl at 32 if no post then tcwl 34. 

With 6600c34-39-39 can get all 100's with 51 ns, this is from my samsung while back, only difference is your hynix will run cooler and lower trfc timings. tRTP is 12 not 11, just bug.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> If doesnt post or errors, then use 6600 c34-39-39 with tcwl at 32 if no post then tcwl 34.
> 
> With 6600c34-39-39 can get all 100's with 51 ns, this is from my samsung while back, only difference is your hynix will run cooler and lower trfc timings. tRTP is 12 not 11, just bug.
> 
> View attachment 2555751


OK! SO using your exact settings in your asrock timing config pic WITH THE EXCEPTION OF tWR (im at 22) it went to 50% memtest with no errors FOR THE FIRST TIME!! What do you suggest next to tweak? and thank you!


----------



## morph.

Afferin said:


> It recently became unstable for whatever reason, but I was running 1.55v VDD, 1.52v VDDQ, 1.275v IMC, 0.95v SA, 1.45v VDDQ TX. Primary timings were 32-40-40-30. I didn't set secondary/tertiary timings because I was still trying to push for 7000 (which may have been a mistake on my part... everything went wrong after my first time booting at 7000).
> 
> I use the Lian Li Evo inversed, so my RAM gets fresh air from my bottom intake. Idle temps were 35-40c, with serious load temps being around 55c
> 
> From my experience, raising IMC voltage too much actually caused more instability. It was a long, tedious process to find the "sweetspot" IMC voltage!


Oh I see tried doing a cold boot or reseating your kit?

Could just be a training issue.

So you ram on air cooling not water? 1.55-1.52v is pretty high for that I thought hah

Did you run an Aida to see what you were getting as well?

Wow 30 tras what’s the new maths/rule for that timing from ddr4?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> OK! SO using your exact settings in your asrock timing config pic WITH THE EXCEPTION OF tWR (im at 22) it went to 50% memtest with no errors FOR THE FIRST TIME!! What do you suggest next to tweak? and thank you!


hynix runs trfc2/trfcpb lower than my samsung, so put those both at 390. then run memtest for atleast 300% before making any other changes. You want to be sure you have one stable point that you can go back to.


----------



## newls1

okie dokie, doing it now...


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> hynix runs trfc2/trfcpb lower than my samsung, so put those both at 390. then run memtest for atleast 300% before making any other changes. You want to be sure you have one stable point that you can go back to.


What's the rule for trfc2/trfcpb on sk hynix's? Which one should be higher / lower or the same and the range it should be?

Currently mines


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> hynix runs trfc2/trfcpb lower than my samsung, so put those both at 390. then run memtest for atleast 300% before making any other changes. You want to be sure you have one stable point that you can go back to.


ok. She tests good. Even applied a CPU OC of 54x All Core. What do you suggest me change for improved latency? Or do you think I can try 6800MHz and see whats up? Here are my current settings all thanks to all your help!


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing OC result of my friend's

12900KS SP96 (P108, E72)
CineR23 30min pass
all cores P54 / E43 / C45
7200-30-42-42-28-340-2T
Max Water Temp 28.9C
Vcore voltage under load : 1.261 (LLC7) , it can be lowered further but he wants the seup to be conservative.










[Edit] SP screen


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> ok. She tests good. Even applied a CPU OC of 54x All Core. What do you suggest me change for improved latency? Or do you think I can try 6800MHz and see whats up? Here are my current settings all thanks to all your help!


Change tcwl to 32 and tcke to 6 or 8. tcwl either same as tcl or 2 less. When you first boot up, run aida64 with nothing else running to check memory speed. then wait a minute or 2 and just double click on latency a few times till you are sure nothing running in background. latency wont be accurate until windows delayed loading programs finishes.

you should be able to get latency down to near 50-52 with your settings. 

If you go up to 6800, plan on raising vdd/vddq by .04 to .05v, and raising cpu vdd2. But I would get a stable 6600c32 first, 6800 probably going to run hot and error from temps.


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> What's the rule for trfc2/trfcpb on sk hynix's? Which one should be higher / lower or the same and the range it should be?
> 
> Currently mines


 No rule, just Hynix typically will do lower trfc2/trfcpb than samsung. You can boot at 4800 and see stock ratios between two which I use as starting point for whatever frequency I use, then test each lower. But each kit is different in capability, so once you have a starting point like you have, just trial and error with your kit, drop one or the other, check latency/stability, repeat.


----------



## morph.

interesting... so i get 0 errors with a quick 200% pass with memtestpro but when running TM5 with anta777 extreme gets decimated with errors haha.... it's highlighting how unreliable mem test pro is...


----------



## Zemach

Apex 10/2021 CPU12900K SP 90 P core 99 E core 73 5.1/4.1 uncore 4.2 6800 testmem + y-runcher 2.5b sa 1.05 MC 1.3 Tx 1.52 VDD 1.56 VDDQ1.51


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> interesting... so i get 0 errors with a quick 200% pass with memtestpro but when running TM5 with anta777 extreme gets decimated with errors haha.... it's highlighting how unreliable mem test pro is...


Using 1 test can result in settings that pass that one test, only to fail the other. I have screened with TM5 anta extreme for 8-10 mins on changes then ran 2hrs TM5 anta extreme stable only to have several errors with memtest overnight. Also vice versa using memtest to screen. 

On higher voltages and edge of stability where temps are issues, TM5 usually errors quicker. But for 24/7 I will pass both.


----------



## Zemach

sample test 6800 30 39 39 30 vdd 1.56v


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Change tcwl to 32 and tcke to 6 or 8. tcwl either same as tcl or 2 less. When you first boot up, run aida64 with nothing else running to check memory speed. then wait a minute or 2 and just double click on latency a few times till you are sure nothing running in background. latency wont be accurate until windows delayed loading programs finishes.
> 
> you should be able to get latency down to near 50-52 with your settings.
> 
> If you go up to 6800, plan on raising vdd/vddq by .04 to .05v, and raising cpu vdd2. But I would get a stable 6600c32 first, 6800 probably going to run hot and error from temps.


i did above suggestions and Latency is still ~55ns. What is Lucky Mode? What other settings should I attempt to mess with to drop Latency sir?


----------



## david12900k

I feel like im ready to pull my hair out. Maybe someone can help me. Im trying to get 6400 1T on my 12900ks and APEX with bios 1403. Seems like nothing I do works:

Finally decided "Screw it" and ran with extremely loose timings and this is what happened:
Tried 6400 1T @ 40-60-60-120. 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, 1.3MC = PASS
Tried lowering VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX to 1.45, FAIL
So now I have a stable setting. I first tried lowering CL to 32 and that = PASS
Then I tried lowering the 2 middle timings to 39 (which is stock) so CL 32-39-39-120 at 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.3 MC = FAIL

Here is what is frustrating me, I tried so many voltages to get CL 32-39-39-120 stable, but nothings seems to work:
Tried Upping voltages to 1.53v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
Tried upping voltages to 1.6 v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
Tried upping MC to 1.35, fail
Tried lowering MC to 1.275 fail
Tried lowering MC to 1.25 fail
Tried upping SA to 1.25 fail
Tried lowering SA to 1.15 fail
Tried lowering SA to 1.05 fail
Tried lowering SA to .95 fail

Tried using CL 32-42-42-120 fail
Tried using CL 32-44-44-120 fail
Tried going and doing CL 32-60-60-72 (lower the last timing) fail
^ Did all of the voltage adjustments I tried previously for 32-60-60-72 - FAIL
Tried 32-60-60-32 fail
tried 32-40-40-32 fail
At this point, I dont know how to stabilize those middle to timings... anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Arni90

david12900k said:


> I feel like im ready to pull my hair out. Maybe someone can help me. Im trying to get 6400 1T on my 12900ks and APEX with bios 1403. Seems like nothing I do works:


Can you do 7000 2T stable?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> i did above suggestions and Latency is still ~55ns. What is Lucky Mode? What other settings should I attempt to mess with to drop Latency sir?


Lucky mode doesnt help latency or performance, may help benching high frequencies.

I cant remember what latency should be with e-cores enabled, mine are disabled and using 52/47 cpu/cache so latency will be lower.

Also if you installed any motherboard utilities, for example asus armory crate slows latency by 4-5ns for asus. Not sure what MSI has in terms of mobo utilities, I just installed drivers.

post a screenshot with aida64 and asrock timings.


----------



## AdamK47

I told myself that once I go DDR5 I'll stop going down the memory tweaking rabbit hole. For the most part I've succeeded.

There is just one problem I can't shake. No matter what I can't get 6400 stable. 6000 and 6200 I can do. Thought it was the IMC on my 12900K. Bought a 12900KS and still the same problem. Tried G.SKILL 6400 CL32 kit. Not stable. Two other kits (a 6000 and 6200) also not stable at 6400. Doesn't matter what voltage or timings. I'm thinking it's my motherboard. Gigabyte Aorus Z690 Master.


----------



## db000

AdamK47 said:


> I told myself that once I go DDR5 I'll stop going down the memory tweaking rabbit hole. For the most part I've succeeded.
> 
> There is just one problem I can't shake. No matter what I can't get 6400 stable. 6000 and 6200 I can do. Thought it was the IMC on my 12900K. Bought a 12900KS and still the same problem. Tried G.SKILL 6400 CL32 kit. Not stable. Two other kits (a 6000 and 6200) also not stable at 6400. Doesn't matter what voltage or timings. I'm thinking it's my motherboard. Gigabyte Aorus Z690 Master.


I've heard issues about the Master board. I guess you are running the latest BIOS version?


----------



## AdamK47

db000 said:


> I've heard issues about the Master board. I guess you are running the latest BIOS version?


Yes F8e. I can do 6000 at CL30 with 1.3V. Can't even do 6400 CL40 with 1.45V. It's like hitting a wall.


----------



## david12900k

Arni90 said:


> Can you do 7000 2T stable?


Not sure. I can try


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Using 1 test can result in settings that pass that one test, only to fail the other. I have screened with TM5 anta extreme for 8-10 mins on changes then ran 2hrs TM5 anta extreme stable only to have several errors with memtest overnight. Also vice versa using memtest to screen.
> 
> On higher voltages and edge of stability where temps are issues, TM5 usually errors quicker. But for 24/7 I will pass both.


Yeah, I ended up purchasing karhu, that thing picks up errors quick fast just a shame no indicators of where the issue may lie.... and in the past i'd also use occt.


----------



## 7empe

david12900k said:


> I feel like im ready to pull my hair out. Maybe someone can help me. Im trying to get 6400 1T on my 12900ks and APEX with bios 1403. Seems like nothing I do works:
> 
> Finally decided "Screw it" and ran with extremely loose timings and this is what happened:
> Tried 6400 1T @ 40-60-60-120. 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, 1.3MC = PASS
> Tried lowering VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX to 1.45, FAIL
> So now I have a stable setting. I first tried lowering CL to 32 and that = PASS
> Then I tried lowering the 2 middle timings to 39 (which is stock) so CL 32-39-39-120 at 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.3 MC = FAIL
> 
> Here is what is frustrating me, I tried so many voltages to get CL 32-39-39-120 stable, but nothings seems to work:
> Tried Upping voltages to 1.53v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
> Tried upping voltages to 1.6 v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
> Tried upping MC to 1.35, fail
> Tried lowering MC to 1.275 fail
> Tried lowering MC to 1.25 fail
> Tried upping SA to 1.25 fail
> Tried lowering SA to 1.15 fail
> Tried lowering SA to 1.05 fail
> Tried lowering SA to .95 fail
> 
> Tried using CL 32-42-42-120 fail
> Tried using CL 32-44-44-120 fail
> Tried going and doing CL 32-60-60-72 (lower the last timing) fail
> ^ Did all of the voltage adjustments I tried previously for 32-60-60-72 - FAIL
> Tried 32-60-60-32 fail
> tried 32-40-40-32 fail
> At this point, I dont know how to stabilize those middle to timings... anyone have any ideas?


Hey, I did not get what's the memory kit you're playing with, but in case you have g.skill 6400c32 or other kit with similar performance, please try the following values:











MC (VDD2): highly depends on CPU, my sample needs *1.2125V *(one step less and random errors like #0 in TM5 1usmus_v3)
VDD: 1.55V
VDDQ: 1.50V
CPU VDDQ Tx: 1.50V
SA: on offset and "auto" as a value - this assures the floor voltage defined for the CPU sample; SA is needed while playing with 1:1 gear mode and DDR4, with DDR5 due to gear mode 1:2 and low IMC frequency, SA doesn't have to be touched. Mine default is 0.95V.
Apex production date 11/2021


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Lucky mode doesnt help latency or performance, may help benching high frequencies.
> 
> I cant remember what latency should be with e-cores enabled, mine are disabled and using 52/47 cpu/cache so latency will be lower.
> 
> Also if you installed any motherboard utilities, for example asus armory crate slows latency by 4-5ns for asus. Not sure what MSI has in terms of mobo utilities, I just installed drivers.
> 
> post a screenshot with aida64 and asrock timings.


This is a bare bone OS install and only 1 day old. I never install any bloatware. here is a current screen capture of my settings so far... About ready to try 6800MT/s. This Unify X board is on a whole different level then the carbon was. Such a huge difference


----------



## matique

Was informed of my slightly high cpu vddq so lowered it down to a "safe" 1.45v. Couldn't lower vdimm for this setup though. TM5 1usmus / ycruncher 2.5b / Karhu >13000%. Ignore the YC numbers i'm running my daily 5.3 8c/8t setup for gaming.

7000c30 2T 
SA 1.25v
CPU VDDQ 1.45v
VDD2 1.38v
Vdimm 1.59v


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> This is a bare bone OS install and only 1 day old. I never install any bloatware. here is a current screen capture of my settings so far... About ready to try 6800MT/s. This Unify X board is on a whole different level then the carbon was. Such a huge difference


wait couple minutes after booting and running aida64, then double click just latency window a few times to ensure windows not running something in background. lowering twcl to 30, raising trefi, and lowering refresh cycle and per bank will improve latency, but also require more dram vdd/vddq. 

interested to see how 6800 goes, probably need raise dram vdd/vddq by .04 to .05v, your cpu vdd2 at 1.34 probably high enough. SA keep mine 1.15 range, auto is too high.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> wait couple minutes after booting and running aida64, then double click just latency window a few times to ensure windows not running something in background. lowering twcl to 30, raising trefi, and lowering refresh cycle and per bank will improve latency, but also require more dram vdd/vddq.
> 
> interested to see how 6800 goes, probably need raise dram vdd/vddq by .04 to .05v, your cpu vdd2 at 1.34 probably high enough. SA keep mine 1.15 range, auto is too high.


That Latency result was after several minutes after boot and multi passes. What timings might need to be "Relaxed" to sustain 6800 you think? Again, thank you so much


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> That Latency result was after several minutes after boot and multi passes. What timings might need to be "Relaxed" to sustain 6800 you think? Again, thank you so much


I would use same settings.


----------



## 7empe

6666 C30 1T tight. Voltages not optimized yet.

CPU MC (VDD2): 1,275V
CPU VDDQ TX: 1,50V
DIMM VDD: 1,55V
DIMM VDDQ: 1,50V
SA: 0,95V


----------



## GQNerd

MSI Unify X on stock BIOS 
- 2nd Unify board, 1st was okay, but had a weak second dimm slot.. Had it @6600 stable, but errors at 6800-7000. Tried multiple BIOS versions. 
Also had an Apex board but that one had 2 weak @ss dimm slots

12900k
SP 88
P Core - 97
E Core - 69
*5.3G, 4.2 E, 4.4 RING ~1.32V*

Kingston (Hynix) 6000 CL 40 @* 6800 28-40-40-28 *
voltages in the screenshot

Stable AF

Next test will be 7000mhz but waiting for the *KS* from Amazon to get here in the next hr or so..


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> I would use same settings.


instant memory errors in memtest! What voltage should I start adjusting?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> instant memory errors in memtest! What voltage should I start adjusting?


Did you increase dram vdd/vddq .05v?, ie if stable 6600c32, then 6800c32 in the 1.52 range. Or 1.5ish voltage and try 6800 c34. also need to watch temps, 6800+ easier on water unless binned ram.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Did you increase dram vdd/vddq .05v?, ie if stable 6600c32, then 6800c32 in the 1.52 range. Or 1.5ish voltage and try 6800 c34. also need to watch temps, 6800+ easier on water unless binned ram.


Here is all I tried sir:

CL34 (was 32)
tRFC 450 (was 390)
tRFCPB Auto (was 390)
CPU VDD2 1.40 (was 1.34)
CPU VDDQ 1.415 (was 1.390)

I left ram voltage @ 1.470 as I was worried if i put more voltage i might hurt the sticks. Cooling tho is NOT a problem, I have 6 140mm fans blowing down directly on them from my rads above them and this room stays @ 60f with its own AC unit. Ram stays chilly, just wasnt sure about to much voltage? Anyways im back @ 6600MHz as nothing i did stopped the instant mem errors.


----------



## Cxxkies

Miguelios said:


> MSI Unify X on stock BIOS
> - 2nd Unify board, 1st was okay, but had a weak second dimm slot.. Had it @6600 stable, but errors at 6800-7000. Tried multiple BIOS versions.
> Also had an Apex board but that one had 2 weak @ss dimm slots
> 
> 12900k
> SP 88
> P Core - 97
> E Core - 69
> *5.3G, 4.2 E, 4.4 RING ~1.32V*
> 
> Kingston (Hynix) 6000 CL 40 @* 6800 28-40-40-28 *
> voltages in the screenshot
> 
> Stable AF
> 
> Next test will be 7000mhz but waiting for the *KS* from Amazon to get here in the next hr or so..
> 
> View attachment 2555869



Why do people max out tREFI, above 65k its known to cause error that could lead to data corruption...


----------



## GQNerd

Cxxkies said:


> Why do people max out tREFI, above 65k its known to cause error that could lead to data corruption...


I’ve tried multiple options, this gave me the best results although minimal difference.. 

Haven’t had any errors or corruption yet.. but might revert back to 65k now that you jinxed it

😋


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Here is all I tried sir:
> 
> CL34 (was 32)
> tRFC 450 (was 390)
> tRFCPB Auto (was 390)
> CPU VDD2 1.40 (was 1.34)
> CPU VDDQ 1.415 (was 1.390)
> 
> I left ram voltage @ 1.470 as I was worried if i put more voltage i might hurt the sticks. Cooling tho is NOT a problem, I have 6 140mm fans blowing down directly on them from my rads above them and this room stays @ 60f with its own AC unit. Ram stays chilly, just wasnt sure about to much voltage? Anyways im back @ 6600MHz as nothing i did stopped the instant mem errors.


Yeah, I stay below 1.5v for mine on air as well for 24/7. And wont get to 6800 with reasonable tight settings without raising dram voltage.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Yeah, I stay below 1.5v for mine on air as well for 24/7. And wont get to 6800 with reasonable tight settings without raising dram voltage.


thank you for the days of service you provided me with! Wouldnt be @ 6600 without ya


----------



## snakeeyes111

7empe said:


> SA: on offset and "auto" as a value - this assures the floor voltage defined for the CPU sample; SA is needed while playing with 1:1 gear mode and DDR4, with DDR5 due to gear mode 1:2 and low IMC frequency, SA doesn't have to be touched. Mine default is 0.95V.


That is interesting, i need it for karhu stability. If i test Cache enable and xorrox with auto sa i get instant error.


----------



## Cxxkies

snakeeyes111 said:


> That is interesting, i need it for karhu stability. If i test Cache enable and xorrox with auto sa i get instant error.


thats because ring is too high or ur lackig vcore. alwats test cache with karhu. that's why i prefer karhu...


----------



## 7empe

snakeeyes111 said:


> That is interesting, i need it for karhu stability. If i test Cache enable and xorrox with auto sa i get instant error.


How much SA do you need and for what frequency?


----------



## Cxxkies

Miguelios said:


> I’ve tried multiple options, this gave me the best results although minimal difference..
> 
> Haven’t had any errors or corruption yet.. but might revert back to 65k now that you jinxed it
> 
> 😋


yeah 65k is "safe" and barely any different from maxed trefi


----------



## snakeeyes111

1.25 for 6800.
All other Testprograms work well. Its only karhu = Sa

Cpu was stock 😅. So that cant be faulty cpu oc.


----------



## Cxxkies

snakeeyes111 said:


> 1.25 for 6800.
> All other Testprograms work well. Its only karhu = Sa
> 
> Cpu was stock 😅. So that cant be faulty cpu oc.


 1.25 is very low for SA. Try 1.4

It's completely safe. than you can fine tune down if u want...


----------



## snakeeyes111

My setting is fine, maybe read my 1st comment about sa...


----------



## Nizzen

Cxxkies said:


> Why do people max out tREFI, above 65k its known to cause error that could lead to data corruption...


Post link to known data corruption 

Afraid of data corruption? Buy supermicro ws motherboard and go xeon and ecc memory


----------



## centvalny

Need a few os ready to go when testing ram. No downtime when it gets corrupted.


----------



## db000

centvalny said:


> Need a few os ready to go when testing ram. No downtime when it gets corrupted.


For sure! Keeping the Boot Drive ready at all times, "Bench apps" and a "Apex Drivers" folder. Gotta be ready during those late nights, even though Win11 sure can take a beating(!)


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Need a few os ready to go when testing ram. No downtime when it gets corrupted.


"If your OS don't ever get corrupted, you haven't overclocked far enough"
🤟


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> This is a bare bone OS install and only 1 day old. I never install any bloatware. here is a current screen capture of my settings so far... About ready to try 6800MT/s. This Unify X board is on a whole different level then the carbon was. Such a huge difference


Your rtls are high. You need to set rtls section to dynamic I think on MSI. They should be in the 50s or 60s. Look at your rtls compared to others with lower latency.


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> Your rtls are high. You need to set rtls section to dynamic I think on MSI. They should be in the 50s or 60s. Look at your rtls compared to others with lower latency.


Good catch, didnt even see the high rtls, those rtls look trained with c38 or c40 not c32. ? fastboot enabled after trained with higher tCL or training went awry. I have rtls set on default "auto" on mine and trains fine for c32.


----------



## bscool

opt33 said:


> Good catch, didnt even see the high rtls, those rtls look trained with c38 or c40 not c32. ? fastboot enabled after trained with higher tCL or training went awry. I have rtls set on default "auto" on mine and trains fine for c32.


Maybe the changed it. On z590 I had to change somethings to get tighter rtls on MSI. I have seen other on z690 MSI talk about it but maybe the changed it on later bioses.


----------



## centvalny

Only 1 stick can scale up on air, the other 3 ( from 2 kits of 6400) no go.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Good catch, didnt even see the high rtls, those rtls look trained with c38 or c40 not c32. ? fastboot enabled after trained with higher tCL or training went awry. I have rtls set on default "auto" on mine and trains fine for c32.


Oh boy, i remember the RTL game on z590 and i didnt have a fun time.. How do I go about this?


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> Your rtls are high. You need to set rtls section to dynamic I think on MSI. They should be in the 50s or 60s. Look at your rtls compared to others with lower latency.


I changed RTL's in BIOS to Dynamic mode, and got this for my new RTL's. This aby better?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Oh boy, i remember the RTL game on z590 and i didnt have a fun time.. How do I go about this?


you might need to write down all your settings and voltages in bios, clear cmos, then manually enter settings again, dont load from profile. My rtls for c32 are much lower, I have to use c40 to get rtls as high as yours.

your new rtls are better, still higher than mine, maybe dynamic mode forces the retrain (when auto failed to do so). I didnt see any difference on mine using dynamic vs auto, but mine werent borked to begin with.

ill boot up 6600c32 and see.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> you might need to write down all your settings and voltages in bios, clear cmos, then manually enter settings again, dont load from profile. My rtls for c32 are much lower, I have to use c40 to get rtls as high as yours.
> 
> your new rtls are better, still higher than mine, maybe dynamic mode forces the retrain (when auto failed to do so). I didnt see any difference on mine using dynamic vs auto, but mine werent borked to begin with.
> 
> ill boot up 6600c32 and see.


this fixed my Latency issue! Im in the 51ns range now... Thanks guys  *Should I keep "memory fast boot" enabled?? Only thing I changed in bios was set RTL's to dynamic.*


----------



## opt33

Those are pretty close to mine, for c32 my rtl's are always as shown. I dont have memory fast boot enabled, on auto mine never retrains unless I make a change. If enable just have to remember to disable when make a change so retrains, though looks like dynamic setting forces it to retrain.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Those are pretty close to mine, for c32 my rtl's are always as shown. Do you have memory fast boot enabled?
> 
> View attachment 2555908


yes sir, memory fast boot is enabled. Should i disable that?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> yes sir, memory fast boot is enabled. Should i disable that?


It doesnt matter. If you enable, just need to remember to temporarily disable it whenever you make a change so it will retrain.


----------



## z390e

Anyone using the FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 T-Force 6400 and not using watercooling on them?

Putting my build together and those seem to be right on the edge of needing watercooling if I am going to OC them. Not sure if there is a fan available that can handle their height, like the Dominator Fan handles my Corsair DDR4. 

Any help is appreciated if anyone has firsthand experience with them.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> It doesnt matter. If you enable, just need to remember to temporarily disable it whenever you make a change so it will retrain.


I think this was the setting i messed with on z590 that stopped mem training upon boot. I think i left this on "enabled" then once the RTL's grabbed a good number, i disabled this option and let the board ride. boot times were so much faster. Im pretty sure this was that setting. I can mess with it until tomorrow as im on shift for the next 24hrs. I wont mess with it if you think 66/66 25/25 are decent enough to stay with?!


----------



## fedx

AdamK47 said:


> Yes F8e. I can do 6000 at CL30 with 1.3V. Can't even do 6400 CL40 with 1.45V. It's like hitting a wall.


Hi guys! I have 12600K + Z690 Aorus Master + 2 kits of DDR5 (Hynix and Samsung). I try many timings and frequencies to do stable profile. But all my result are:
6200-2T @ Patriot Hynix OEM modules









And i can boot 6600 1T @ Samsung modules (A-Data), do some tests, but its not stable, crushing at y-cruncher and not pass TM5 Universal test.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> I think this was the setting i messed with on z590 that stopped mem training upon boot. I think i left this on "enabled" then once the RTL's grabbed a good number, i disabled this option and let the board ride. boot times were so much faster. Im pretty sure this was that setting. I can mess with it until tomorrow as im on shift for the next 24hrs. I wont mess with it if you think 66/66 25/25 are decent enough to stay with?!


you have good latency now, doubt you would see any significant difference with slightly different rtls, if stable I would leave it be.


----------



## Afferin

z390e said:


> Anyone using the FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 T-Force 6400 and not using watercooling on them?
> 
> Putting my build together and those seem to be right on the edge of needing watercooling if I am going to OC them. Not sure if there is a fan available that can handle their height, like the Dominator Fan handles my Corsair DDR4.
> 
> Any help is appreciated if anyone has firsthand experience with them.


 I use this kit and it runs fine. I've pumped as much as 1.58v into the sticks and they've never gone past 60c. I'm currently putting upwards of 1.5v into them, and they idle around 35c and hit around 50c under load. But I use an inverted case, so they're getting plenty of fresh air from the bottom intake fans.


----------



## bscool




----------



## Lord Alzov

My new daily FULL STRESS TEST STABLE
5300/4200/4400
6800CL30 CR1
MC 1.45
VDDQ TX 1.45
SA 1.4
VDD 1.59
VDDQ 1.59
Y-cruncher SUB 58 sec.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Anyone here had the chance to play with those and wouldn't mind giving me some feedback? I have the opportunity to acquire them.
Dell SK Hynix DDR5 UDIMM 4800Mhz Ram 16gb (*2x8GB*)
Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

MarkDeMark said:


> Anyone here had the chance to play with those and wouldn't mind giving me some feedback? I have the opportunity to acquire them.
> Dell SK Hynix DDR5 UDIMM 4800Mhz Ram 16gb (*2x8GB*)
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 2556006


If they are as good as or better than dell 2x16 they most likely do 7000+ easy 
My 2x16 green dell do 7000c32 easy fully stable, like many other hynix kits


----------



## MarkDeMark

Nizzen said:


> If they are as good as or better than dell 2x16 they most likely do 7000+ easy
> My 2x16 green dell do 7000c32 easy fully stable, like many other hynix kits


After researching a little I think you're talking here about all the HMCG78 models which are an organization x8 with good bandwidth while this model HMCG66 is an organization x16 which has a reputation for much lower bandwidth and therefore really not as good for overclocking. But I have to research a little more to be sure. Thanks anyway and yes I know about about the HMCG78MEBUA081N model (1Rx8) - such a pearl


----------



## 7empe

snakeeyes111 said:


> 1.25 for 6800.
> All other Testprograms work well. Its only karhu = Sa
> 
> Cpu was stock 😅. So that cant be faulty cpu oc.


The SA voltage has been bothering me since your post  Decided to check my 6600 C30 1T profile with Karhu over the night with my SA floor of 950 mV. A few errors indeed despite TM5 1usmus_v3 and absolutnew were completely stable.

Errors must came from the cache/ring.

So, I moved SA 0.95V -> 1.25V just for curiosity. No errors in Karhu anymore! Did 50000% of coverage.

Now I will try to find the border value for SA, because 6400 C28 1T is completely stable at Karhu with the floor SA voltage of 0.95V. I wonder how much voltage increase is really needed for this 200 MHz uptick.

Thanks a bunch for a suggestion regarding SA/Karhu combo


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> The SA voltage has been bothering me since your post  Decided to check my 6600 C30 1T profile with Karhu over the night with my SA floor of 950 mV. A few errors indeed despite TM5 1usmus_v3 and absolutnew were completely stable.
> 
> Errors must came from the cache/ring.
> 
> So, I moved SA 0.95V -> 1.25V just for curiosity. No errors in Karhu anymore! Did 50000% of coverage.
> 
> Now I will try to find the border value for SA, because 6400 C28 1T is completely stable at Karhu with the floor SA voltage of 0.95V. I wonder how much voltage increase is really needed for this 200 MHz uptick.
> 
> Thanks a bunch for a suggestion regarding SA/Karhu combo


I've realised 0.95V might be okay for Samsung but a big no for Hynix. It almost always fails in Karhu. I've just set it to auto since it's stable with that and it defaults to 1.23V in HWINFO.

I can also replicate the error in Kahru in Vanguard where 0.95V will CTD after a few games. Setting it to Auto completely stabilised it for me. On my previous Samsung kit on 0811 bios, I was running 0.95V with no issues. I believe @Nizzen also had this issue with BF2042 with 0.95V SA and he increased it or something.


----------



## asdkj1740

MarkDeMark said:


> Anyone here had the chance to play with those and wouldn't mind giving me some feedback? I have the opportunity to acquire them.
> Dell SK Hynix DDR5 UDIMM 4800Mhz Ram 16gb (*2x8GB*)
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 2556006


2X8G is weak in terms of performance.


----------



## newls1

@opt33 What is this voltage (pic provided below) and what is it called in the bios? Im home now and was wanting to try to stabilize 6800MT/s again and I think in my venture a few days ago trying to get 6800 stable, I dont think this voltage ever changed and maybe this could have been the reason 6800 wasnt stable. IF you dont mind, could you maybe list out what voltages you would try to stabilize 6800 speeds for me? Be very grateful Sir


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> @opt33 What is this voltage (pic provided below) and what is it called in the bios? Im home now and was wanting to try to stabilize 6800MT/s again and I think in my venture a few days ago trying to get 6800 stable, I dont think this voltage ever changed and maybe this could have been the reason 6800 wasnt stable. IF you dont mind, could you maybe list out what voltages you would try to stabilize 6800 speeds for me? Be very grateful Sir


IVR Transmitter voltage isnt going to make 6800c32 stable at same vdd/vddq required for 6600c32. Any time increase 200mhz with similar tight settings so bandwidth and latency improve, you will increase dram voltage by .03-.05v, at higher end more likely .04 to .05v. Or drastically lower temps via water/chiller etc. Unless you have 6600c32 running higher than needed and can lower vdd/vddq and still run stable.

MSI bios "cpu vddq" is ivr transmitter voltage and HWinfo reads these values as "CPU VDDQ" and "VDDQ TX" which can register slightly differently. You can set "cpu vddq" in bios to same as vdd/vddq and try, but doesnt replace need to raise vdd/vddq.

Think in terms of cpu overclocking, say you require 1.34v core for 5400 mhz, 1.33v causes errors. Now you want to run 5600 mhz without raising vcore, that will work about as well as trying to run 6800c32 at same dram voltage required for 6600c32. Or you can loosen settings to where 6800 performs like 6600c32 (probably only need little more vdd/vddq then).


----------



## newls1

um, okay.... So im still not clear what vddq-tx is tho? Do I adjust this?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> um, okay.... So im still not clear what vddq-tx is tho? Do I adjust this?


On asus forum, it was recommended very early for ivr transmitter voltage for mem to be roughly same as vdd/vddq. For msi, I dont keep exactly same but within about .05v, as didnt see difference. For my 24/7 I use 1.46vdd/vddq, 1.40-1.41 cpu vddq (transmitter), 1.3 cpu vdd2 (mc). pic of what I used for past 2 months without issue with hynix, 6400c32cr1.

you can try setting same as vdd/vddq or little lower and see if any difference on yours. The highest you would set cpu vddq is max of dram vdd or vddq.


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> Maybe the changed it. On z590 I had to change somethings to get tighter rtls on MSI. I have seen other on z690 MSI talk about it but maybe the changed it on later bioses.


After playing around with rtls for awhile you are right, there are ram/frequency settings where setting rls to dynamic fix the high rtl issue. On my samsungs at 6400/6600, I get same rtls doesnt matter auto or dynamic. On hynix at 6600 I kept getting high rtls on several boots, several retrains. Set it to dynamic rtls came way down, set it to auto goes back up. 

on hynix, ill just keep that setting on dynamic, thanks for the tip. now have to check on hynix 6400 if it changes.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> After playing around with rtls for awhile you are right, there are ram/frequency settings where setting rls to dynamic fix the high rtl issue. On my samsungs at 6400/6600, I get same rtls doesnt matter auto or dynamic. On hynix at 6600 I kept getting high rtls on several boots, several retrains. Set it to dynamic rtls came way down, set it to auto goes back up.
> 
> on hynix, ill just keep that setting on dynamic, thanks for the tip. now have to check on hynix 6400 if it changes.


bscool is very knowledgeable for sure! Guy has assisted my annoying ass several times!


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Dell green kit has voltage lock on Dark Kp. Got 2 kit of them .


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Dell green kit has voltage lock on Dark Kp. Got 2 kit of them .


Then use G.skill 6400c32 that are generally better


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> Then use G.skill 6400c32 that are generally better


Sorry forgot to change extreme voltage mode. Dark kingpin works fine with dell green kit.


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Sorry forgot to change extreme voltage mode. Dark kingpin works fine with dell green kit.


Can't wait to see your 7000-7200c30 result 😁


----------



## Afferin

I know the timings aren't crazy great and the voltages are relatively high, but I'd like to shoutout to the people who said 4 DIMM boards are incapable of decent speeds. I'm working towards 7000, and these are my TM5 stable 6933 settings on my Z690 Formula:










The actual BIOS settings are: 1.58v VDD, 1.55v VDDQ, 1.81v VPP, 1.15v SA, 1.3375v IMC, 1.45v VDDQ TX. This was my first try at 6933, so voltages are relatively high and I'm sure I could lower them quite a bit -- same with timings!

Who said 4 DIMM slot boards suck? :b


----------



## centvalny

From 3 kits of 6400, only 3 sticks can do Intel Core i9 12900KS @ 1589.72 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
Cpu ambient water, ram air


----------



## snakeeyes111

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Dell green kit has voltage lock on Dark Kp. Got 2 kit of them .


Want change? Got Kingston 6000c40 and want try some Dell again.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Ah ok, u can also do more voltage on kp 😅. So have fun and Show us kp Power


----------



## WebsterRKL

So wait, Gskill DDR5 are all Samsung? Where are the Gskill/Hynix DDR5 kits? Only Dell and Hynix branded so far?

Currently running Gskill/Hynix DDR4 at 5866Mhz CL21 daily and loving the super-quick responsiveness. 

Why do the Gskill kits have (2) part numbers?

First I thought the X was Hynix and the A was Samsung. No? 

Don't laugh, I haven't been keepin up. lol 

*F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK *


----------



## asdkj1740

WebsterRKL said:


> So wait, Gskill DDR5 are all Samsung? Where are the Gskill/Hynix DDR5 kits? Only Dell and Hynix branded so far?
> 
> Currently running Gskill/Hynix DDR4 at 5866Mhz CL21 daily and loving the super-quick responsiveness.
> 
> Why do the Gskill kits have (2) part numbers?
> 
> First I thought the X was Hynix and the A was Samsung. No?
> 
> Don't laugh, I haven't been keepin up. lol
> 
> *F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK *


xmp c32 samsung? no.


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> So wait, Gskill DDR5 are all Samsung? Where are the Gskill/Hynix DDR5 kits? Only Dell and Hynix branded so far?
> 
> Currently running Gskill/Hynix DDR4 at 5866Mhz CL21 daily and loving the super-quick responsiveness.
> 
> Why do the Gskill kits have (2) part numbers?
> 
> First I thought the X was Hynix and the A was Samsung. No?
> 
> Don't laugh, I haven't been keepin up. lol
> 
> *F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK *


6400c32 is Hynix. There are 3x models. Black no rgb, black with rgb and silver with rgb.

Show us "superquick responsivness" with Aida 64


----------



## WebsterRKL

Nizzen said:


> 6400c32 is Hynix. There are 3x models. Black no rgb, black with rgb and silver with rgb.
> 
> Show us "superquick responsivness" with Aida 64


The (early batch) Z690 Apex mem kit issues only exist with the Samsung kits?

------

Hah, haven't ran AIDA 64 since about 2weeks after the Gskill DDR4 F4-5333C22D-16GTES 5866Mhz CL21 kit arrived last July. At that time AIDA didn't seem to know the 5333Mhz kit at all. Read Write and Copy were in the low 80,000MB/s and latency was crazy high at 52ns, a value that didn't reflect what I was experiencing at all - just assumed it was a software bug and planned to rerun - AIDA needed to update.

I need run the Hynix DDR4 F4-5333C22D-16GTES kit again with an updated AIDA 64 at 5333/19 5600/20 and 5866/21.

The B-die kit at 5066Mhz 17 17 17 37 ran AIDA better yet was/is much less responsive with my work apps.

My B-die kit below:


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> @opt33 What is this voltage (pic provided below) and what is it called in the bios? Im home now and was wanting to try to stabilize 6800MT/s again and I think in my venture a few days ago trying to get 6800 stable, I dont think this voltage ever changed and maybe this could have been the reason 6800 wasnt stable. IF you dont mind, could you maybe list out what voltages you would try to stabilize 6800 speeds for me? Be very grateful Sir


My hynix is not one of the better binned kits, but here is minimum voltage for mine to run 6800c32 for 10 mins tm5 with not that tight settings.

For 6400c32 cr1 or 6600c32 cr2 settings tightened to 50-51ns latency and 102-104/100/100 r/w/c, need 1.45-1.47 vdd/vddq for testing/gaming stable, 2nd pic

For 6800cr32 need 1.51vdd/vddq to run tm5 10 mins without errors with loosened settings hence same 50-51ns latency, so + .05v for only slight increase bandwidth with same latency. Need 1.54v to make 6800c32 more worthwhile with sub 50ns latency but then higher temp issues, first pic.

So I stick with 6400t1 or 6600t2 until better ram or water cooled. You can try my settings (not that tight) and see if yours is better binned, but you will still need more than 1.47v, if need that for 6600.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> My hynix is not one of the better binned kits, but here is minimum voltage for mine to run 6800c32 for 10 mins tm5 with not that tight settings.
> 
> For 6400c32 cr1 or 6600c32 cr2 settings tightened to 50-51ns latency and 102-104/100/100 r/w/c, need 1.45-1.47 vdd/vddq for testing/gaming stable.
> 
> For 6800cr32 need 1.51vdd/vddq to run tm5 10 mins without errors with loosened settings hence same 50-51ns latency, so + .05v for only slight increase bandwidth with same latency. Need 1.54v to make 6800c32 more worthwhile with sub 50ns latency but then higher temp issues, second pic.
> 
> So I stick with 6400t1 or 6600t2 until better ram or water cooled. You can try my settings (not that tight) and see if yours is better binned, but you will still need more than 1.47v, if need that for 6600.
> 
> View attachment 2556347


Thank you very much for this. So much appreciate it. Im on a 48hr shift but when i get home sunday I will for sure try this out. Im planning on switching to Bios "b" and make that bios for max OCing. That way I dont mess anything up with this current stable setup. Plus I wanted to try out the latest official bios, and see whats up with that. Thank you sir.

**EDIT That 2nd pic I cant see, its so small!


----------



## Ketku-

What all the volts affected the DDR5 DRAM oc and what are the maximum 24/7 safe good airflow? Starting in near future ocing my 12900K+Apex+6400CL32.


----------



## newls1

Ketku- said:


> What all the volts affected the DDR5 DRAM oc and what are the maximum 24/7 safe good airflow? Starting in near future ocing my 12900K+Apex+6400CL32.


cpu vvdq
cpu vdd2
dram vddr
dram vddq
Define "Safe"? Safe for one person might be considered not safe for another. I personally stay below 1.5v for dram, but im gonna try 1.52 when i get home for 6800 stability. Im NO expert by any means on DDR5 as im only 2 weeks into working with it, but just read even jjust a few pages back and you'll gather what voltages are needed to apply for each setting for a specific goal. The apex is used by a lot of people here so your lucky...


----------



## borant

7empe said:


> because 6400 C28 1T is completely stable at Karhu with the floor SA voltage of 0.95V.


did you ever retest 6400C28 1T after updating to 1403 and did do ME update?
on my side after 1403 and ME 1735 updates stability for tight timings with 1T is lost. 6400C30 1T is the maximum stable with 1403.


----------



## SoldierRBT

borant said:


> did you ever retest 6400C28 1T after updating to 1403 and did do ME update?
> on my side after 1403 and ME 1735 updates stability for tight timings with 1T is lost. 6400C30 1T is the maximum stable with 1403.


1403 isn't good. 6400C28 1T wasn't stable and monitor would randomly loose signal. Back to 1304 everything is stable.


----------



## 7empe

borant said:


> did you ever retest 6400C28 1T after updating to 1403 and did do ME update?
> on my side after 1403 and ME 1735 updates stability for tight timings with 1T is lost. 6400C30 1T is the maximum stable with 1403.


Yes I did test it with 1403 with Karhu and TM5 + BF2042/BFV played daily. 6400C28 1T stable still, at least so far…


----------



## borant

7empe said:


> Yes I did test it with 1403 with Karhu and TM5 + BF2042/BFV played daily. 6400C28 1T stable still, at least so far…


with ME 1735 or previous ME 1620? After retuning absolutely everything the longest stable run with FPU load I got about 45 minutes.


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> Yes I did test it with 1403 with Karhu and TM5 + BF2042/BFV played daily. 6400C28 1T stable still, at least so far…


Do me a favor, test Aida and see if you get the same read/write bandwidth and latency. Granted, I'm coming from 0806 but I lost 1GB/s from each and ~.6ns in latency.

My 6400/c28 profile is stable I'm 1403 as well.


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which one do you need?


hey, do you have any new bioses for a-pro?


----------



## 7empe

borant said:


> with ME 1735 or previous ME 1620? After retuning absolutely everything the longest stable run with FPU load I got about 45 minutes.


I'm still on 1545.

Check if your RTL MC0 C0 did not get -1 to what it was before. If so, reduce SA slightly.


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> Do me a favor, test Aida and see if you get the same read/write bandwidth and latency. Granted, I'm coming from 0806 but I lost 1GB/s from each and ~.6ns in latency.
> 
> My 6400/c28 profile is stable I'm 1403 as well.


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> View attachment 2556633
> View attachment 2556634


Lol uhh somthing isn't right here. 107 read @6400? You had a pic earlier with lower number on 1403 so just trying to figure out what's going on lol.


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> Lol uhh somthing isn't right here. 107 read @6400? You had a pic earlier with lower number on 1403 so just trying to figure out what's going on lol.


Note the units please. Had an old 1104 benchmark with MB/s so did the same right now.


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> Note the units please. Had an old 1104 benchmark with MB/s so did the same right now.


Thanks for pointing that out. Hm, I'll have to try and figure out what's going on. Tried all sorts of stuff with no luck.


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. Hm, I'll have to try and figure out what's going on. Tried all sorts of stuff with no luck.


Some additional stuff running in the background consuming your bandwidth? Some monitoring tool or sth


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> Some additional stuff running in the background consuming your bandwidth? Some monitoring tool or sth


Nope, it's the same install and everything. Only difference is it is a KS I am testing and the bios update. All the same timings and everything. Very strange.

I suppose it could be the ME version (it's 1423) though I am not sure.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Also noticed I lost 1GB/s on each. Tried 0086 and 1304. Same thing. I have latest ME installed.


----------



## jomama22

SoldierRBT said:


> Also noticed I lost 1GB/s on each. Tried 0086 and 1304. Same thing. I have latest ME installed.


So was it just 1403 where you saw the loss compared to 0086 and 1304? What bios were you on before those that gave you the better number?

The only difference I can find as far as the timings is the RTL for CH0 A and B now both match the ones from CH1, whereas before, CH0 would be 1 step lower (so 60 -> 59 in my case). Trying to boot with the previous rtls just falls on it's face and won't post.


----------



## bscool

I noticed after Windows update this week Aida latency is higher. Do you guys seeing difference have updates turned off?

I have a bench OS and latency is the same as always(lower than my regular Windows with updates) on it so for me I know the latest Windows update hurt my Aida scores a bit.

For me it was after these

April 12, 2022—KB5012599 (OS Builds 19042.1645, 19043.1645, and 19044.1645)






April 12, 2022-KB5012117 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10, version 20H2, Windows Server, version 20H2, Windows 10 Version 21H1, and Windows 10 Version 21H2 - Microsoft Support







support.microsoft.com





I havent tried uninstalling it to see if it changes my # on my regular OS.


----------



## jomama22

bscool said:


> I noticed after Windows update this week Aida latency is higher. Do you guys seeing difference have updates turned off?
> 
> I have a bench OS and latency is the same as always(lower than my regular Windows with updates) on it so for me I know the latest Windows update hurt my Aida scores a bit.
> 
> For me it was after this April 12, 2022—KB5012599 (OS Builds 19042.1645, 19043.1645, and 19044.1645)
> 
> I havent tried uninstalling it to see if it changes my # on my regular OS.


I have updates turned off so that's not it unfortunately.


----------



## SoldierRBT

jomama22 said:


> So was it just 1403 where you saw the loss compared to 0086 and 1304? What bios were you on before those that gave you the better number?
> 
> The only difference I can find as far as the timings is the RTL for CH0 A and B now both match the ones from CH1, whereas before, CH0 would be 1 step lower (so 60 -> 59 in my case). Trying to boot with the previous rtls just falls on it's face and won't post.


I just tested 0086, 1304, 1403 BIOS and still see 1GB/s less on each with the KS. Could be the ME firmware (16.0.15.1735) or just KS problem. Weird because Karhu bandwidth is the same as I had with the KF. 
Also updated AIDA64 same 103GB/s 101K MB/s 101K MB/s. With KF I had 104GB/s 102K MB/s 102K MB/s 6400C28 1T


----------



## jomama22

SoldierRBT said:


> I just tested 0086, 1304, 1403 BIOS and still see 1GB/s less on each with the KS. Could be the ME firmware (16.0.15.1735) or just KS problem. Weird because Karhu bandwidth is the same as I had with the KF.
> Also updated AIDA64 same 103GB/s 101K MB/s 101K MB/s. With KF I had 104GB/s 102K MB/s 102K MB/s 6400C28 1T


Yup, those results are the literal exact same as me with the ks.

This sp isn't fantastic (90/97/76) but runs 5.5 @ 1.315v die sense with 50 cache (just testing p-cores by themselves as that all I care about), highest core temp is 86C using r23, package is 85. Runs way cooler than my kf (88/96/74) at the same voltages and 100hz higher. 5.4 runs at 1.23v.

I also noticed that load voltage in r23 is increased by ~.03v given then same LLC and global voltage (guess thats what vcore was back before). Whether that's the chip or the bios, not sure.

Power consumption is also vastly different. Given same voltage, the p-core only, ran r23 with ~310w (5.3/1.269v). This is will do 5.4, same voltage, at 230w.


----------



## asdkj1740

neizonnnnn said:


> hey, do you have any new bioses for a-pro?


you need PRO Z690-AA31U2 ?


----------



## neizonnnnn

asdkj1740 said:


> you need PRO Z690-AA31U2 ?


I have it now, but do you have something newer?


----------



## sugi0lover

moved to the other forum~


----------



## newls1

@opt33 Got home this morning and tried for 6800 again, and this time it looks very promising. I switched bios to 2ndary and flashed it to the latest on MSI's site (I know you said you hated that bios, but wanted to see if it fixed a turbo ratio issue im having but NO!) I used a mix of your 6600/6800 settings but with 1.490 Dram VDD. The weird thing is the absolute second I change timings to 40/40/66 back to 39/39/48 INSTANT MEMORY ERRORS! So I think that was my issue prior.. I dont think I changed those primary timings as I left them @ 32/39/39/48 @ 6800 even at 1.52 Dram VDD. I have to have the primary timings @ 32/40/40 for my settings to work. Not sure which voltage to increase to allow tighter primaries, but I think Im good here for the time being. Cant thank you enough for all your assistance.. Really appreciate you! Im using the same tertiaries for 6600 on 6800 and that seems to work so far. Only got to about 30% in memtest so far, but FAR FAR improvement from prior as it would throw errors instantly, so I know im on the right path now. Here is a current pic of all my settings.. I value your input so please throw me some if you have any!! Also, if you look at the mem temps, that is directly after I closed memtest. Those good temps to not worry about hurting them? Also, it seems with 6800 speed, my RTL's look pretty low, even lower then they were at 6600. Is this a good thing?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> @opt33 Got home this morning and tried for 6800 again, and this time it looks very promising. I switched bios to 2ndary and flashed it to the latest on MSI's site (I know you said you hated that bios, but wanted to see if it fixed a turbo ratio issue im having but NO!) I used a mix of your 6600/6800 settings but with 1.490 Dram VDD. The weird thing is the absolute second I change timings to 40/40/66 back to 39/39/48 INSTANT MEMORY ERRORS! So I think that was my issue prior.. I dont think I changed those primary timings as I left them @ 32/39/39/48 @ 6800 even at 1.52 Dram VDD. I have to have the primary timings @ 32/40/40 for my settings to work. Not sure which voltage to increase to allow tighter primaries, but I think Im good here for the time being. Cant thank you enough for all your assistance.. Really appreciate you! Im using the same tertiaries for 6600 on 6800 and that seems to work so far. Only got to about 30% in memtest so far, but FAR FAR improvement from prior as it would throw errors instantly, so I know im on the right path now. Here is a current pic of all my settings.. I value your input so please throw me some if you have any!! Also, if you look at the mem temps, that is directly after I closed memtest. Those good temps to not worry about hurting them? Also, it seems with 6800 speed, my RTL's look pretty low, even lower then they were at 6600. Is this a good thing?


it looks good, rtls same as mine on 6800, it was your 6600 rtls that were still a little high. temps look fine.

If not stable, just have to bump vdd. If stable and want to try lower latency, can try twcl 30, and lower refresh cycle times, but may require more vdd/vddq. Also tcke can be lower.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> it looks good, rtls same as mine on 6800, it was your 6600 rtls that were still a little high. temps look fine.
> 
> If not stable, just have to bump vdd. If stable and want to try lower latency, can try twcl 30, and lower refresh cycle times, but may require more vdd/vddq. Also tcke can be lower.


will try to tighten some things either later or on wendsday when i get home from shift again. Question! Why do most people burry their tRAS setting to like 28/30/32 yet we run high tRAS? Can I set it to something much lower or is it not worth it?


----------



## Ketku-

What ram blogs do you use or which ones are compatible with G.Skill DDR5 Trident? If I would possibly put them in a custom loop.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> will try to tighten some things either later or on wendsday when i get home from shift again. Question! Why do most people burry their tRAS setting to like 28/30/32 yet we run high tRAS? Can I set it to something much lower or is it not worth it?


I can measure a difference between 90 tras and 54 tras (barely) in aida64 copy speeds and latency maybe 0.2 to 0.3 ns difference. Geekbench, passmark, gaming fps cant see any difference. Going from 54 tras to 32, maybe 0.1 ns difference latency or not, nothing else I tried shows any difference, so havent even bothered testing affect on stability. Same as tRRD_L, tRRD_S, tFAW with 8/8/32 vs 6/4/16 on ddr5, I cant really measure any difference on any test except very small improvement in aida64 cpu photoworxx. But if benching tm5 may as well as run everything down as 0.2 ns latency might be difference between 50 and 49.8 ns latency, but for 24/7 I would need to see some benefit.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> I can measure a difference between 90 tras and 54 tras (barely) in aida64 copy speeds and latency maybe 0.2 to 0.3 ns difference. Geekbench, passmark, gaming fps cant see any difference. Going from 54 tras to 32, maybe 0.1 ns difference latency or not, nothing else I tried shows any difference, so havent even bothered testing affect on stability. Same as tRRD_L, tRRD_S, tFAW with 8/8/32 vs 6/4/16 on ddr5, I cant really measure any difference on any test except very small improvement in aida64 cpu photoworxx. But if benching tm5 may as well as run everything down as 0.2 ns latency might be difference between 50 and 49.8 ns latency, but for 24/7 I would need to see some benefit.


clears that right up! Thanks


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> it looks good, rtls same as mine on 6800, it was your 6600 rtls that were still a little high. temps look fine.
> 
> If not stable, just have to bump vdd. If stable and want to try lower latency, can try twcl 30, and lower refresh cycle times, but may require more vdd/vddq. Also tcke can be lower.


good lord im almost in the 40ns club with ddr5. I changed tcwl from 32 to 30 and put my tRFC to 400. Now at 6800 speeds, im 50.4ns!! Thanks OPT33


----------



## Ketku-

Where can find Ram Watercool kit @ DDR5 G.Skill ? Cant find, EK Module + Blog wont fit or what parts you guys use?


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> Where can find Ram Watercool kit @ DDR5 G.Skill ? Cant find, EK Module + Blog wont fit or what parts you guys use?


Best ddr5 waterblock in the world: 
1-2 c delta water 








Direct chip RAM water block


Direct chip RAM water block




www.supercoolcomputer.com


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Best ddr5 waterblock in the world:
> 1-2 c delta water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com


Thank you mate!  Thats looking awesome. Need maybe then order that kit, because full modules + block.


----------



## Raphie

Just a quick question, I now have z690 DDR4, which is dual cha. Do the DDR5 versions support quad cha? (like the quad cha on X299?) Or am I misunderstanding something?
bridging from 60k+ @ 49ns AIDA reads, to 110k+ @ 51ns starts to become compelling, nearly the same latency, almost double the bandwidth? Or am I missing something here?


----------



## Arni90

opt33 said:


> I can measure a difference between 90 tras and 54 tras (barely) in aida64 copy speeds and latency maybe 0.2 to 0.3 ns difference. Geekbench, passmark, gaming fps cant see any difference. Going from 54 tras to 32, maybe 0.1 ns difference latency or not, nothing else I tried shows any difference, so havent even bothered testing affect on stability. Same as tRRD_L, tRRD_S, tFAW with 8/8/32 vs 6/4/16 on ddr5, I cant really measure any difference on any test except very small improvement in aida64 cpu photoworxx. But if benching tm5 may as well as run everything down as 0.2 ns latency might be difference between 50 and 49.8 ns latency, but for 24/7 I would need to see some benefit.


AIDA64, truly the pinnacle of memory benchmarks.
PYPrime, Geekbench 3/4/5, and SuperPI 32M should all scale with tRAS a bit more noticeably than ****** AIDA64


----------



## Spit051261

Finished with Asus , bought a Tachyon and so easy to overclock.
Happy days


----------



## Ketku-

How you guys remove G.Skill Heatsinks? Luumi (Here finland #1 overclock guy) use Paint Thinner, was so easy.


----------



## Nizzen

Spit051261 said:


> Finished with Asus , bought a Tachyon and so easy to overclock.
> Happy days


Show us ♡


----------



## opt33

Arni90 said:


> AIDA64, truly the pinnacle of memory benchmarks.
> PYPrime, Geekbench 3/4/5, and SuperPI 32M should all scale with tRAS a bit more noticeably than ****** AIDA64


Testing a single variable that has only a small effect on performance requires a very repeatable test with minimal variance run to run, retrain to retrain. Geekbench 5 doesnt have dedicated memory section when I used it, so was useless. Geekbench 3 the variability run to run was higher than any change in tras from 54 to 32. y- cruncher which is multi pi, the variability run to run again higher than any effect between tras 54 to 32. passmark same.

I ran each test 3x with atleast 3 different retrains, ie 9x, but not in a row, because when you retrain in can slightly effect performance. So tras 54 test test 3x, tras 32 test 3 times, repeat 3-5x.

But if you can show me a test where you can detect difference between tras 54 and 32 in multiple retrains, please post up the results, and I will try to repeat it. I just couldnt find one that could.


----------



## sugi0lover

testing my new 12900K's imc~ not bad


















[real-time benching]


----------



## asdkj1740

new definition of not bad...................
i wanted to cry.


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Best ddr5 waterblock in the world:
> 1-2 c delta water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com


Any others blocks made? EK? 
Is worth put Rams really to water, never have it?  I know get better results, but how remove heatsinks? I have G.Skill 6400 CL32


----------



## david12900k

So I thought i had my daily setup stable, but there is an issue. I tried OCCT for the first time to make sure the daily 54 p core, 43 e core (XMP 1) was stable. It turns out that it was throwing a bunch of errors (CPU - 9 error(s) found on physical core #3) - kind of errors. I turned the XMP off to default (4800 Mhz) and no errors. Again, the XMP and manual ram OC's had passed TM5, so im confused. So I have been trying to stabilize this.
Im running the Gskill 6400cl32 kit on the ASUS Apex with 1403 bios and the 12900ks. Any advice on how to get XMP stable?


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Best ddr5 waterblock in the world:
> 1-2 c delta water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com


i wonder if it fit the thermaltake ram/cpu aio.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Hi there. 
I´m very noob related to OC and always I did just the trivial and now I would appreciate some advise if someone can help.
I have Corsair Domintar 5600Mhz samsung chip and there´s no way PC posts with no error, at XMP I it´s ok, but XMP II or any other config that I tried no success. Today I got G.Skill 6400Mhz SK Hynix chip and just tried it on XMP II and got post with no errors ( so far ), so I did some test and got these results, as I see from you guys looks like the latency is too high and if anyone could help some way to get better timmings it would be nice. Thanks in advance.


----------



## z390e

Nizzen said:


> Best ddr5 waterblock in the world:
> 1-2 c delta water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com



Kind of crazy a little FB seller right now has the top cooling for both RAM and direct die CPU.


----------



## Zemach

Apex 10/2021 Test DC Ram G Skill 6400C32
@6800 30 40 40 30 1.56 1.51v Testmem5 17 Cycle 










6800 30 39 39 30 VDD1.56 VDDQ 1.53










7000 30 40 40 30 VDD1.575 VDDQ 1.54 Memtest 5.0 100%


----------



## themad

Zemach said:


> Apex 10/2021 Test DC Ram G Skill 6400C32
> @6800 30 40 40 30 1.56 1.51v Testmem5 17 Cycle
> 
> View attachment 2557041
> 
> 
> 6800 30 39 39 30 VDD1.56 VDDQ 1.53
> 
> View attachment 2557042
> 
> 
> 7000 30 40 40 30 VDD1.575 VDDQ 1.54 Memtest 5.0 100%
> 
> View attachment 2557043


Very nice. What is the secret? Luck with the Apex? Have you returned it and got a new one?
Got the same setup here but a Apex that is definitely not stable on xmp I or ii. Only difference is I am on bios 1403, which should be "better" but who knows...


----------



## Zemach

themad said:


> Very nice. What is the secret? Luck with the Apex? Have you returned it and got a new one?
> Got the same setup here but a Apex that is definitely not stable on xmp I or ii. Only difference is I am on bios 1403, which should be "better" but who knows...


I didn't return and I can use XMP stably if speed is above 6600 I need to use MC calculator. help to be stable


----------



## Ketku-

How people overall cooling DDR5, seen they take more heat than 4? Thats why i havent started oc my memory. Some fan straight to memory, water?


----------



## 7empe

Zemach said:


> I didn't return and I can use XMP stably if speed is above 6600 I need to use MC calculator. help to be stable
> View attachment 2557047


What values did you use with MC calculate?


----------



## Spit051261

On the Tachyon with minimal settings I can get it going OK.
Should get much better when I get chance to play with it and work out the Gigabyte BIOS


----------



## Nizzen

Spit051261 said:


> View attachment 2557061
> 
> On the Tachyon with minimal settings I can get it going OK.
> Should get much better when I get chance to play with it and work out the Gigabyte BIOS


"...bought a Tachyon and so easy to overclock. Happy days..."


2 threads and 6600mhz memory? 🤔


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> How people overall cooling DDR5, seen they take more heat than 4? Thats why i havent started oc my memory. Some fan straight to memory, water?


Direct fan is often enough. 45-50c load. Many ddr5 start to throw errors from 63-67c... Water is ofc better  
I'm using water to take away the temperature out of the equation


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Direct fan is often enough. 45-50c load. Many ddr5 start to throw errors from 63-67c... Water is ofc better
> I'm using water to take away the temperature out of the equation


Yea i have too BIG High End Custom Loop, but what blocks you use DDR5?  and how you removed heatsink


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> Yea i have too BIG High End Custom Loop, but what blocks you use DDR5?  and how you removed heatsink


SuperCool Computer ddr5 block ofc 

Open with a bit force and cut tape with paper knife


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> SuperCool Computer ddr5 block ofc
> 
> Open with a bit force and cut tape with paper knife


Okey.  Need think if i get block. Dram opening is little scary than GPU block.


----------



## db000

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hi there.
> I´m very noob related to OC and always I did just the trivial and now I would appreciate some advise if someone can help.
> I have Corsair Domintar 5600Mhz samsung chip and there´s no way PC posts with no error, at XMP I it´s ok, but XMP II or any other config that I tried no success. Today I got G.Skill 6400Mhz SK Hynix chip and just tried it on XMP II and got post with no errors ( so far ), so I did some test and got these results, as I see from you guys looks like the latency is too high and if anyone could help some way to get better timmings it would be nice. Thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 2557038
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2557040


I'll suggest you start by reading through the thread, we are many who use G.Skills 6400 CL32 (hynix) kit. You'll find all the info needed here


----------



## Spit051261

Spit051261 said:


> View attachment 2557061
> 
> On the Tachyon with minimal settings I can get it going OK.
> Should get much better when I get chance to play with it and work out the Gigabyte BIOS


Better than the last board .
At least this will boot XMP with tighter timings.
Like I said , I have always used Asus and this BIOS is a lot different .


----------



## Zemach

7empe said:


> What values did you use with MC calculate?


Each CPU uses a different MC calculator. For example, at speed my 6666 Sp87 will use MC 1.275 MC Calculator 1.25 If it's SP90 I will use MC Calculator 1.275 equals MC and MC Calculator. It doesn't help to get rid of errors, but it does help for practical use like gaming or working if I'm not using a MC calculator. I won't be able to play these values at all and won't pass the aida64 System Stablility test after I insert the MC Calculator. I can test it and use it or play games right away. All I'm saying is that if you passed all the tests but can't test aida64 System Stablility or play games, try MC Calculator.


----------



## asdkj1740

19/4/22





腾讯微云







share.weiyun.com


----------



## newls1

asdkj1740 said:


> 19/4/22
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com


any change log somewhere?


----------



## themad

Zemach said:


> I didn't return and I can use XMP stably if speed is above 6600 I need to use MC calculator. help to be stable
> View attachment 2557047


Would you mind sharing which part number is it exactly? All start with MB18I0, but then there is a bit more.

90MB18I0-M0AAY0
90MB18I0-M0EAY0 (November 2021)
90MB18I0-M0UAY1 (January 2022)
Would you have the box and could check it on the label? I can buy a M0AAYA but not sure if that is any guarantee that it will be any better.


----------



## Arni90

newls1 said:


> any change log somewhere?


Nothing significant changed from previous A.30 and A.31 as far as I can tell.

A.21 remains king


----------



## newls1

Why A.21 better?


----------



## morph.

Afferin said:


> I know the timings aren't crazy great and the voltages are relatively high, but I'd like to shoutout to the people who said 4 DIMM boards are incapable of decent speeds. I'm working towards 7000, and these are my TM5 stable 6933 settings on my Z690 Formula:
> 
> View attachment 2556227
> 
> 
> The actual BIOS settings are: 1.58v VDD, 1.55v VDDQ, 1.81v VPP, 1.15v SA, 1.3375v IMC, 1.45v VDDQ TX. This was my first try at 6933, so voltages are relatively high and I'm sure I could lower them quite a bit -- same with timings!
> 
> Who said 4 DIMM slot boards suck? :b


@Afferin I have a formula too! I also run the sticks on-air with fans like you inverted as intake. Are you testing stability at all or just being bootable?

It's taking me nearly a week (plus a few days away due to easter) to find a decent "tightened" Karhu stable setting for myself at 6400... But before I did that I tried 6600 and was unable to find a solid stable config as of yet. Can you please share some of those critical voltages you found that helped with each step's stability i.e. 6600/6800 and what timings perhaps might need to loosen (the last thing for me to test is to tighten tCKE in the picture attached)? I'd be pretty happy if I can run 6800 stable... Thankyou


----------



## Flisker_new

Hello guys,

This is kinda first time I'm diving into memory tweaking/OCing and it's pretty frustrating.

Could anyone please share what's the "standard" procedure for testing stability ?

From what I've seen, it seems like LinpackXtreme and MemTestPro 7.0 combo is prefered. But how long do I need to run them ? Do you run multiple hours after single change ?

For example right now I thought I got stable setting, but then when I let it run Linpack while at work it fails after multiple hours. I can't be doing 5 hour test every step right ? That would be ridiculous.

What should I do in this case ? 700%+ Memtest no erros and then I got error on Linpack after 70 or so runs with this settings.


DRAM VDD 1.5v
DRAM VDDQ 1.5v
SA 1.3v
IMC 1.35v

(cpu is even underclocked just to be sure it's not causing any issue whatsoever, ecores are disabled)










Thanks a lot for any tips \ o


----------



## stahlhart

Flisker_new said:


> Could anyone please share what's the "standard" procedure for testing stability ?


I'm not anywhere near as knowledgeable as everyone else posting here, but I used Kahru, y-cruncher and TM5 with the 1usmus and anta777 extreme presets for mine. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to run either of the memory tests, and y-cruncher at 2.5b should only take a minute or so.

Are those timings default?

(edit: you _might_ be stretching a little to reach 6400 on a 4 bank motherboard -- I was only able to get 6000-6200 stable with mine)


----------



## Flisker_new

stahlhart said:


> I'm not anywhere near as knowledgeable as everyone else posting here, but I used Kahru, y-cruncher and TM5 with the 1usmus and anta777 extreme presets for mine. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to run either of the memory tests, and y-cruncher at 2.5b should only take a minute or so.
> 
> Are those timings default?
> 
> (edit: you _might_ be stretching a little to reach 6400 on a 4 bank motherboard -- I was only able to get 6000-6200 stable with mine)


TM5 anta777 runs with no issues, it takes about 90min or so I think.

Timings are not default. I already spend days on this 

It's the Linpack or Prime small ffts that's causing rounding errors/issues. Passing memtestpro or TM5 seems to be pretty easy.

I feel like I'm missing something because ppl don't seem to be running multiple hours of linpack/prime after every change.

Maybe the BIOS is bad, the 1403... didn't try previous ones.


----------



## stahlhart

Flisker_new said:


> TM5 abnta777 runs with no issues, it takes about 90min or so I think.
> 
> Timings are not default. I already spend days on this
> 
> It's the Linpack or Prime small ffts that's causing rounding errors/issues. Passing memtestpro or TM5 seems to pretty easy.
> 
> I feel like I'm missing something because ppl don't seem to be running multiple hours of linpack/prime after every change.
> 
> Maybe the BIOS is bad, the 1403... didn't try previous ones.


The only Linpack I've run has been IBT, and that passes fine, but I've only run it through the usual 10 cycles with varying amounts of memory. I haven't felt compelled to run Prime as from what I can tell, I'm completely stable no matter what I throw at this build and I don't see the need to go looking for any more trouble. Maybe I'll set it up to run overnight one of these days just for grins.

I know that Asus lists 6400 in their specs, but has anyone actually reached it on a Strix? I wasn't 100% stable at 6200; it would train, POST and boot and pass most things most of the time, but it flinched often enough that I couldn't live with it, so I settled for rock solid 6000 for daily driving instead. I'll apply what I learned here to get the next one going faster.


----------



## Flisker_new

stahlhart said:


> The only Linpack I've run has been IBT, and that passes fine, but I've only run it through the usual 10 cycles with varying amounts of memory. I haven't felt compelled to run Prime as from what I can tell, I'm completely stable no matter what I throw at this build and I don't see the need to go looking for any more trouble. Maybe I'll set it up to run overnight one of these days just for grins.
> 
> I know that Asus lists 6400 in their specs, but has anyone actually reached it on a Strix? I wasn't 100% stable at 6200; it would train, POST and boot and pass most things most of the time, but it flinched often enough that I couldn't live with it, so I settled for rock solid 6000 for daily driving instead. I'll apply what I learned here to get the next one going faster.


I can post 6600 fine, 6800 posted once I think, but then it wouldn't and I just went back trying to get something stable. So I thought 6400 should do in this case, but maybe I'm wrong.

The Linpack is kinda mess, like I lowered IMC to 1.3 from 1.35 and tried again... it errored out on 5th round, so I did it again and I'm at 30+ loops now and it's not failing... this is the worst, it's completely inconsistent. Seems like one time it will do 70 loops, other even on less IMC it can't pass 5 loops ? What's going on here ?


----------



## Afferin

morph. said:


> @Afferin I have a formula too! I also run the sticks on-air with fans like you inverted as intake. Are you testing stability at all or just being bootable?
> 
> It's taking me nearly a week (plus a few days away due to easter) to find a decent "tightened" Karhu stable setting for myself at 6400... But before I did that I tried 6600 and was unable to find a solid stable config as of yet. Can you please share some of those critical voltages you found that helped with each step's stability i.e. 6600/6800 and what timings perhaps might need to loosen (the last thing for me to test is to tighten tCKE in the picture attached)? I'd be pretty happy if I can run 6800 stable... Thankyou
> 
> View attachment 2557216
> View attachment 2557219
> 
> 
> View attachment 2557217


Your voltages are pretty high -- except your DIMM voltages. On my Formula, I found that VDD was the most important voltage for getting stability on 6600+. For reference, 6800 required around 1.55v VDD. I could likely pass 6600 on around 1.48v. From there, I found that my VDDQ could be as much as 0.1v lower than my VDD. I also kept VDDQ TX around 1.45v, with IMC VDD between 1.25 and 1.3v. I found that any higher than 1.3v caused more instability for me. I suspect that this particular voltage has a 'sweetspot' that ranges from mobo to mobo. Your SA is also relatively high -- I only needed 0.95v for stability.


----------



## stahlhart

Flisker_new said:


> I can post 6600 fine, 6800 posted once I think, but then it wouldn't and I just went back trying to get something stable. So I thought 6400 should do in this case, but maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> The Linpack is kinda mess, like I lowered IMC to 1.3 from 1.35 and tried again... it errored out on 5th round, so I did it again and I'm at 30+ loops now and it's not failing... this is the worst, it's completely inconsistent. Seems like one time it will do 70 loops, other even on less IMC it can't pass 5 loops ? What's going on here ?


Maybe drop lower, establish stability definitively, and then work upwards...?


----------



## Flisker_new

stahlhart said:


> Maybe drop lower, establish stability definitively, and then work upwards...?


Yea, but I'm trying to figure out what's the proper process, I'm not willing to do 10 hour prime/linpak runs everytime I make one timing or voltage adjustment right ? Something like that can't be the way to go.


----------



## Ketku-

Anyone use here use Bitspower DDR5 ln2 modules+normal water block?

If i remember right, my g.skill 6400 cl32 are single side rams? 2x 16gb


----------



## Neur0Mortis

Ketku- said:


> Anyone use here use Bitspower DDR5 ln2 modules+normal water block?
> 
> If i remember right, my g.skill 6400 cl32 are single side rams? 2x 16gb


I use the Bitspower modules on my 6400CL32 _(yes, it's single sided)_ and even with a ton of load/time, they haven't gone above 38 degrees _(running @ 6400, 30-38-38-64)_. On the chip side, there's approximately 1mm of chip exposed, but I still have the thermal pad on it so you see the sliver of pad instead. This has not hampered cooling in anyway. This is only with 3x Noctua 40mm fans, as I don't have the clearance for the waterblock due to my top rad being too close to the top fitting. It's still 20+ degrees better than the stock heatspreaders without a fan. Before changing the heatspreaders, the lowest temp I could get with the fans under load was like 46 degrees.

Final note: I removed the factory heatspreaders by soaking the sticks in paint thinner for about 20-30 minutes. *Thanks Luumi!*


----------



## Wasakiqwe

Hello everyone , new here I'm building new pc starting with good and stable motherboard under 500$
I would like it to be coo no heat can handle: What I already have are 12900k +ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II - 420+ 4 of 8 gb ram c14 3200+ asus rog1000 gold.
I prefer if it doesn't have realtek acl4080 sound card and intel 1225v.
because I had not so good experience with last z590(sold) so I don't like to repeat the same thing and wasted more time.
would like to know your top recommendation? prefer if you share your experience with current z690 motherboard so real experience with with daily use.
please if you can share your thoughts.
Thanks and really appreciate your help and time.


----------



## morph.

Afferin said:


> Your voltages are pretty high -- except your DIMM voltages. On my Formula, I found that VDD was the most important voltage for getting stability on 6600+. For reference, 6800 required around 1.55v VDD. I could likely pass 6600 on around 1.48v. From there, I found that my VDDQ could be as much as 0.1v lower than my VDD. I also kept VDDQ TX around 1.45v, with IMC VDD between 1.25 and 1.3v. I found that any higher than 1.3v caused more instability for me. I suspect that this particular voltage has a 'sweetspot' that ranges from mobo to mobo. Your SA is also relatively high -- I only needed 0.95v for stability.


Did you tighten any other timings (secondary and tertiaries)? I had to ramp certain voltages up to get stability for testing such as SA as there was a point where I was able to run sub 1v, especially with karhu/anta what stability testing are you doing?

I Haven't tried dropping vdd vddq yet but yeah I'm noticing my IMC voltage is best between 1.28-1.3v as well still trying to work out my trefi it doesn't look running too much and I can't seem to work out what "voltages'" or timings impact stability when pushing trefi to say 65535 etc....

@sugi0lover @7empe @opt33 and suggestions regarding trefi stability? At the moment I can run it at around 40535 stable pushing it further up seems to get an error at some point with Karhu....


----------



## morph.

Flisker_new said:


> Yea, but I'm trying to figure out what's the proper process, I'm not willing to do 10 hour prime/linpak runs everytime I make one timing or voltage adjustment right ? Something like that can't be the way to go.


There aren't really any shortcuts for 24x7 stability I had a fairly good experience using Karhu with 6400% coverage which takes approximately 120minutes.


----------



## Arni90

Flisker_new said:


> Yea, but I'm trying to figure out what's the proper process, I'm not willing to do 10 hour prime/linpak runs everytime I make one timing or voltage adjustment right ? Something like that can't be the way to go.


Use MemTweakIt or MSI Dragon Ball to adjust timings in OS.
Download Benchmate, and open up y-cruncher 2.5B

For every timing:
1. Adjust timing down
2. Run y-cruncher
3. Stable? Go back to step 1
4. Unstable? Increase the timing by 2 ticks
5. Do this for 4 or 5 timings, then run a longer 1+ hour stability test.


----------



## 7empe

Quick question - while running memtest, no errors spotted, however at some 6th or 7th cycle of tm5 1usmus_v3 there is a freeze and restart without bsod. Which voltage is the most suspicious in this case? MC? SA? Tx? Or maybe something else?


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> Did you tighten any other timings (secondary and tertiaries)? I had to ramp certain voltages up to get stability for testing such as SA as there was a point where I was able to run sub 1v, especially with karhu/anta what stability testing are you doing?
> 
> I Haven't tried dropping vdd vddq yet but yeah I'm noticing my IMC voltage is best between 1.28-1.3v as well still trying to work out my trefi it doesn't look running too much and I can't seem to work out what "voltages'" or timings impact stability when pushing trefi to say 65535 etc....
> 
> @sugi0lover @7empe @opt33 and suggestions regarding trefi stability? At the moment I can run it at around 40535 stable pushing it further up seems to get an error at some point with Karhu....


Raising trefi improves latency significantly. Improving latency or frequency requires more dram voltage, ie vdd/vddq (unless already using more vdd/vddq than necessary). 

I only need to increase imc voltage if increasing frequency or changing command rate t2 to t1.

transmitter voltage i just look at mobo on auto, for example 6600c32 1.46vdd, transmitter voltage auto is 1.36, I just manually enter 1.36v, never had issue.

SA voltage I just leave 1.15 to 1.18 range for 6400cr1 to 6800cr2, which avoids issues with gaming and stress tests like Karhu on mine.

Have about 2 months without single issue, 100's hours gaming and easily pass any stress test.


----------



## Gadfly

Flisker_new said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> This is kinda first time I'm diving into memory tweaking/OCing and it's pretty frustrating.
> 
> Could anyone please share what's the "standard" procedure for testing stability ?
> 
> From what I've seen, it seems like LinpackXtreme and MemTestPro 7.0 combo is prefered. But how long do I need to run them ? Do you run multiple hours after single change ?
> 
> For example right now I thought I got stable setting, but then when I let it run Linpack while at work it fails after multiple hours. I can't be doing 5 hour test every step right ? That would be ridiculous.
> 
> What should I do in this case ? 700%+ Memtest no erros and then I got error on Linpack after 70 or so runs with this settings.
> 
> 
> DRAM VDD 1.5v
> DRAM VDDQ 1.5v
> SA 1.3v
> IMC 1.35v
> 
> (cpu is even underclocked just to be sure it's not causing any issue whatsoever, ecores are disabled)
> 
> View attachment 2557296
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for any tips \ o


That is a ton of voltage for for 6400 2T..... Is your memory watercooled? Samsung or Hynix?

Try this:

SA:Offset, +0.020v ; MC 1.225v, 1.45/1.45/1.45 VDD/Q/IVR/

When it comes to SA / IMC voltages, more is not always better. Both will tend to "sweet spot" at some point where adding more voltage will just induce errors. 

For testing, I use TM5 (1usmus_v3) for 5 passes (about 30 min). That will heat the memory up, if it passes, I will continue to adjust voltages/timings until it starts making errors. When I have a stable profile, I then test with HCI memtest pro overnight. As a general rule, with HCI Memtest you want to test to 1500%+.


----------



## KedarWolf

Thermalright has released a "Bending Corrector Frame" for Intel's Alder Lake CPU


Meet Thermalright's LGA1700-BCF (Bending Corrector Frame)




www.overclock3d.net


----------



## MarkDeMark

One question for whoever has bought the "Water Block RAM Direct Chip DDR5 Full Copper" from SuperCoolComputers. What exactly does the 97.74$ US kit contains? I simply do not understand their description: "One set contains RAM block 2 piece copper 1 piece". Wrote to them but they never answered. Is it a full kit for 2 memory modules- or is it a kit for one memory module and therefore need to buy two kits for 2 memory sticks?


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Raising trefi improves latency significantly. Improving latency or frequency requires more dram voltage, ie vdd/vddq (unless already using more vdd/vddq than necessary).
> 
> I only need to increase imc voltage if increasing frequency or changing command rate t2 to t1.
> 
> transmitter voltage i just look at mobo on auto, for example 6600c32 1.46vdd, transmitter voltage auto is 1.36, I just manually enter 1.36v, never had issue.
> 
> SA voltage I just leave 1.15 to 1.18 range for 6400cr1 to 6800cr2, which avoids issues with gaming and stress tests like Karhu on mine.
> 
> Have about 2 months without single issue, 100's hours gaming and easily pass any stress test.


Yeah its why I want to get tREFI up to at least 65535... And that's why I have my VDD/VDDQ cranked up to 1.5v (mind you I'm running a 4 slot mobo Maximus Formula)... But still pushing tREFI too far (past 40535) at this stage seems to present a karhu error.

I'll look at lowering my TX/SA in the near future just trying to work out what's causing the Karhu error when my tREFI errors on 45535 or higher, I don't believe its temperature-related either cause it errors out pretty quickly.

My latest run with 6400% Karhu coverage stable:


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> Yeah its why I want to get tREFI up to at least 65535... And that's why I have my VDD/VDDQ cranked up to 1.5v (mind you I'm running a 4 slot mobo Maximus Formula)... But still pushing tREFI too far (past 40535) at this stage seems to present a karhu error.
> 
> I'll look at lowering my TX/SA in the near future just trying to work out what's causing the Karhu error when my tREFI errors on 45535 or higher, I don't believe its temperature-related either cause it errors out pretty quickly.
> 
> My latest run with 6400% Karhu coverage stable:
> View attachment 2557512


Problem may not be related to tREFI itself. Just like @opt33 said, increasing tREFI reduces latency. Your errors with higher tREFI may be caused exactly by this. At this point it can be anything, like:

too low vcore - cache unstable? Karhu detects cache errors quite well
MC voltage too low? Lower latency causes higher stress on MC
SA too low? Lower latency means higher stress on the PCH as well
Finally, VDD/VDDQ may need an uptick too


----------



## morph.

7empe said:


> Problem may not be related to tREFI itself. Just like @opt33 said, increasing tREFI reduces latency. Your errors with higher tREFI may be caused exactly by this. At this point it can be anything, like:
> 
> too low vcore - cache unstable? Karhu detects cache errors quite well
> MC voltage too low? Lower latency causes higher stress on MC
> SA too low? Lower latency means higher stress on the PCH as well
> Finally, VDD/VDDQ may need an uptick too


Yeah I already have a lot of those voltages in the upper marks or sweet spots afaik to try to rule a lot of that out but open to more if required.

Did you get a chance to check out my timings/ss of voltages via HWINFO?


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> Yeah I already have a lot of those voltages in the upper marks or sweet spots afaik to try to rule a lot of that out but open to more if required.
> 
> Did you get a chance to check out my timings/ss of voltages via HWINFO?


Yes, I did, but these voltages are far from the upper marks 
But, OK, your timings are not demanding for this frequency. It is not CL28, nor 1T, should be enough.
How about temperature? I see SPD hub 35C idle? Do you have an active cooling?

EDIT: With increased tREFI, what kind of #error you get in 1usmus_v3?


----------



## morph.

7empe said:


> Yes, I did, but these voltages are far from the upper marks
> But, OK, your timings are not demanding for this frequency. It is not CL28, nor 1T, should be enough.
> How about temperature? I see SPD hub 35C idle? Do you have an active cooling?
> 
> EDIT: With increased tREFI, what kind of #error you get in 1usmus_v3?


Yeah upper mark for my spd/timings is what I meant heh. I do have some form of active cooling, it's cooled by a fan vertically above it as intake but not direct cooling if that makes sense inside the case, the temp is around 10 degrees over ambient. Hits around 48-50 degs when testing with karhu.


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> Yeah upper mark for my spd/timings is what I meant heh. I do have some form of active cooling, it's cooled by a fan vertically above it as intake but not direct cooling if that makes sense inside the case, the temp is around 10 degrees over ambient. Hits around 48-50 degs when testing with karhu.


I would use a fan directly blowing on the sticks. This will give you a significant temperature drop under load. Then check tREFI again with 65535.


----------



## 7empe

7empe said:


> Quick question - while running memtest, no errors spotted, however at some 6th or 7th cycle of tm5 1usmus_v3 there is a freeze and restart without bsod. Which voltage is the most suspicious in this case? MC? SA? Tx? Or maybe something else?


Nobody answered, so I will 
Issue was caused by too low tRDWR. Tricky timings. If too low, may not produce errors in mem tests until freeze+shutdown.


----------



## Ketku-

I have now 2x Module for ram water cooling DDR5 need anymore the water block. 2dimm water blocks not have much offer, but how 4dimm water block fits 2ram? Ofcourse its much bigger, so the half space is free but how affect cooling?


----------



## morph.

7empe said:


> I would use a fan directly blowing on the sticks. This will give you a significant temperature drop under load. Then check tREFI again with 65535.


Could do that for a trouble shooting perspective but won’t be a option with my build heh.


----------



## 7empe

morph. said:


> Could do that for a trouble shooting perspective but won’t be a option with my build heh.
> View attachment 2557551


Great layout for the water block!


----------



## db000

New from G.Skill, 6600 CL34. One can hope it's an even better bin.








G.SKILL Announces New Ultra Low-Latency DDR5-6600 CL34 Memory Kit - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


22 April 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is pleased to announce the launch of an ultra-low latency, high-speed DDR5-6600 CL34 32GB 2x16GB memory kit under the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5...




www.gskill.com


----------



## db000

Ketku- said:


> I have now 2x Module for ram water cooling DDR5 need anymore the water block. 2dimm water blocks not have much offer, but how 4dimm water block fits 2ram? Ofcourse its much bigger, so the half space is free but how affect cooling?


I'm using a Bitspower, works well.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

db000 said:


> New from G.Skill, 6600 CL34. One can hope it's an even better bin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Announces New Ultra Low-Latency DDR5-6600 CL34 Memory Kit - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 22 April 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is pleased to announce the launch of an ultra-low latency, high-speed DDR5-6600 CL34 32GB 2x16GB memory kit under the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


Cant wait for 8000c30 kit.


----------



## 7empe

db000 said:


> New from G.Skill, 6600 CL34. One can hope it's an even better bin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Announces New Ultra Low-Latency DDR5-6600 CL34 Memory Kit - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 22 April 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is pleased to announce the launch of an ultra-low latency, high-speed DDR5-6600 CL34 32GB 2x16GB memory kit under the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


Not sure if this is any better kit than 6400 CL32. Depends on the XMP voltage, but I expect it will be something like 1.45V. If so, then there is no difference in bin quality. My 6400 can do 6600 CL32 at 1.45V, did not try CL34 but it would be funny to see the XMP 1.40V in such case


----------



## 7empe

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cant wait for 8000c30 kit.


Gossips say that ddr5 12000 MT/s should be the default  Wonder the CAS latency though…


----------



## Arni90

db000 said:


> New from G.Skill, 6600 CL34. One can hope it's an even better bin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Announces New Ultra Low-Latency DDR5-6600 CL34 Memory Kit - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 22 April 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is pleased to announce the launch of an ultra-low latency, high-speed DDR5-6600 CL34 32GB 2x16GB memory kit under the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


A better bin would hardly matter unless it's a Z690 Apex-exclusive kit.


----------



## Flisker_new

Arni90 said:


> Use MemTweakIt or MSI Dragon Ball to adjust timings in OS.
> Download Benchmate, and open up y-cruncher 2.5B
> 
> For every timing:
> 1. Adjust timing down
> 2. Run y-cruncher
> 3. Stable? Go back to step 1
> 4. Unstable? Increase the timing by 2 ticks
> 5. Do this for 4 or 5 timings, then run a longer 1+ hour stability test.


Thank you and others for tips.

I tweaked some timings in the meantime and got the Linpack 100 runs without errors, but when running TM5(anta77 config) I got error on test 15 after 3 hours.

So I made custom config that loops just the 15 and that one keeps causing issues, so at least I can test relatively quickly now.

Guess there is no info on what particular timings/voltages are certain tests relate to ?


----------



## db000

7empe said:


> Not sure if this is any better kit than 6400 CL32. Depends on the XMP voltage, but I expect it will be something like 1.45V. If so, then there is no difference in bin quality. My 6400 can do 6600 CL32 at 1.45V, did not try CL34 but it would be funny to see the XMP 1.40V in such case


Ye, I don't expect it either. One can hope tho, hand picked sticks paired with a 2022/01 Apex bundle  wow woow


----------



## Flisker_new

Arni90 said:


> A better bin would hardly matter unless it's a Z690 Apex-exclusive kit.


Meaning it's not possible to "max out" the current kits anyway if one isn't using the 2 dimm high end board ?

Since I got into the mem oc few weeks ago I was thinking if there is any point in buying 10 kits and trying to find the best one, but it's probably not going to run on my 4 dimm board past 6400/6600 anyway right ?

Btw, what is the process if someone really wants to go crazy with this ? Are they testing single memory stick one by one and then take 2 best sticks or does the testing need to be done with 2 sticks ?


----------



## toncij

db000 said:


> Ye, I don't expect it either. One can hope tho, hand picked sticks paired with a 2022/01 Apex bundle  wow woow


Well... on my Apex the kit doesn't even run stable at XMP, let alone any higher. 
I've tried VDDC/VVDQ up to 1.425, SA 1.3, IMC 1.35... didn't help. It still failed Memtest.

How do you recognize if it's the IMC or the board that's crap'n the bed?


----------



## 7empe

toncij said:


> Well... on my Apex the kit doesn't even run stable at XMP, let alone any higher.
> I've tried VDDC/VVDQ up to 1.425, SA 1.3, IMC 1.35... didn't help. It still failed Memtest.
> 
> How do you recognize if it's the IMC or the board that's crap'n the bed?


Two board at least to swap CPU between. More than one CPU even better to compare the IMC capabilities.
My Apex (11/2021) runs 6800 CL30 stable, with acceptable voltages, so I think I'm lucky...
I can boot 7000 CL30 all the time, but to stabilize that... oh man, it is another story.


----------



## 7empe

db000 said:


> Ye, I don't expect it either. One can hope tho, hand picked sticks paired with a 2022/01 Apex bundle  wow woow


Lets wait for 13th gen and Z790. We will complain still, but at least everyone may hit the 7000 CL30 without troubles


----------



## toncij

7empe said:


> Two board at least to swap CPU between. More than one CPU even better to compare the IMC capabilities.
> My Apex (11/2021) runs 6800 CL30 stable, with acceptable voltages, so I think I'm lucky...
> I can boot 7000 CL30 all the time, but to stabilize that... oh man, it is another story.


What voltages?
I have one more Apex with me, but not many CPUs... will have to buy more.


----------



## 7empe

Flisker_new said:


> Thank you and others for tips.
> 
> I tweaked some timings in the meantime and got the Linpack 100 runs without errors, but when running TM5(anta77 config) I got error on test 15 after 3 hours.
> 
> So I made custom config that loops just the 15 and that one keeps causing issues, so at least I can test relatively quickly now.
> 
> Guess there is no info on what particular timings/voltages are certain tests relate to ?


Error #15 won't be reproduce just by running test #15 in the loop  This is the tricky one, but in my case I got that one when RDWR/WRRD were too tight, VDDQ/VDDQTx were too low or just IMC voltage needed an uptick.


----------



## toncij

Or rather - get one Unify-X to test and makes sure CPU is OK, then pick an Apex that actually works.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

What vcore u guys at 5.3ghz to do linx and y cruncher? I think my cpu is off somehow. It was sp98 then I sent it to supercool to direct die then he sent me back and it was still sp98 but the temp was bad so I sent it back to him again and this time he sent to his friend to test it before send it back to me. Now Im on evga so dont know the sp but it needs 1.35v -75% llc to do linx and y cruncher.


----------



## Flisker_new

7empe said:


> Error #15 won't be reproduce just by running test #15 in the loop  This is the tricky one, but in my case I got that one when RDWR/WRRD were too tight, VDDQ/VDDQTx were too low or just IMC voltage needed an uptick.


Actually it does reproduce the error consistently for me.

Will try playin with RDWR/WRRD, thanks. Voltages are kinda maxed out I think for daily 1.5 for VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.35 for IMC.


----------



## matique

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What vcore u guys at 5.3ghz to do linx and y cruncher? I think my cpu is off somehow. It was sp98 then I sent it to supercool to direct die then he sent me back and it was still sp98 but the temp was bad so I sent it back to him again and this time he sent to his friend to test it before send it back to me. Now Im on evga so dont know the sp but it needs 1.35v -75% llc to do linx and y cruncher.


needed 1.25 vcore for 5.3 ycruncher, sp111 pcore.


----------



## Ketku-

db000 said:


> I'm using a Bitspower, works well.
> View attachment 2557584
> 
> View attachment 2557583


What modules you mate using? Bitspower LN2 too or something else?


----------



## Arni90

Flisker_new said:


> Meaning it's not possible to "max out" the current kits anyway if one isn't using the 2 dimm high end board ?
> 
> Since I got into the mem oc few weeks ago I was thinking if there is any point in buying 10 kits and trying to find the best one, but it's probably not going to run on my 4 dimm board past 6400/6600 anyway right ?
> 
> Btw, what is the process if someone really wants to go crazy with this ? Are they testing single memory stick one by one and then take 2 best sticks or does the testing need to be done with 2 sticks ?


It might be possible to max out the kits on a good Z690 Apex, but I suspect you're more likely to run into IMC limitations before hitting DIMM limitations. You'd have to ask some XOC people, as they've got the tools to figure it out.

A better bin might be able to run some subtiming one or two ticks lower, which obviously does help, but is in no way significant in the larger picture.

If you want to go crazy with it, you bin one stick at a time for highest possible frequency and/or specific timings, depending on your needs.


----------



## 7empe

toncij said:


> What voltages?
> I have one more Apex with me, but not many CPUs... will have to buy more.


Voltages?


Flisker_new said:


> Actually it does reproduce the error consistently for me.
> 
> Will try playin with RDWR/WRRD, thanks. Voltages are kinda maxed out I think for daily 1.5 for VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.35 for IMC.


If you can reproduce it just by running the same test in the loop then it is even better! You can easily track your changes. Good luck!


----------



## toncij

7empe said:


> Voltages?





7empe said:


> My Apex (11/2021) runs 6800 CL30 stable, *with acceptable voltages*, so I think I'm lucky...


Which ones? Potential differential for your SA, IMC, VDD, VVDQ?
Mine bugs out on Memtest86pro.
I've tried bumping all of the above, but still got errors. Albeit not as many at the start, but eventually a failed 4pass run.


----------



## db000

Ketku- said:


> What modules you mate using? Bitspower LN2 too or something else?


Bartx DDR5 Copper


----------



## Ketku-

db000 said:


> Bartx DDR5 Copper
> View attachment 2557618
> 
> View attachment 2557620
> 
> View attachment 2557619








BP-RAMCD5S-LN2


Bitspower Universal Memory Covers for LN2 Container ( DDR5, Single-sided module )




shop.bitspower.com




I take these  Because nothing else is avaible.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Ketku- said:


> BP-RAMCD5S-LN2
> 
> 
> Bitspower Universal Memory Covers for LN2 Container ( DDR5, Single-sided module )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.bitspower.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take these  Because nothing else is avaible.


Supercool is not available?


----------



## Ketku-

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Supercool is not available?


Out of stock  So Bitspower only left. I am fine with it


----------



## Sa-Mo

Hello everyone. I'm new here, but I have been lurking over this thread and was reading about DDR5 and Z690 boards in particular (official Z690 thread as well). I have a few questions and concerns regarding my ASUS Z690 Apex (DDR5, 11/2021 batch). I have i7 12700k (Yes, I know, and I can't even use iGPU... My bad for not doing a little more research regarding motherboards...) and Corsair Vengeance 5600CL36 (Samsung chip). I am on BIOS version 1304.

Here's the thing: so far I have tested XMP 1 and it was unstable (BFV crashing a few minutes in, BSOD, even on desktop), then switched to XMP 2 and it seems to be stable (no error in memtest86 or TestMem5 - 1usmus & [email protected] through the entire test and 1usmus ran a few times in a row). I haven't tried BIOS ver. 1403 yet since I've read that it is less stable than 1304... After all this I decided to try and do a bit of manual OC (6000 MHz, default XMP timings and CL34, and then played around with SA, MC, VDD/VDDQ and IVR voltage). I tried setting SA from Auto to 0.9 or 1.0v, MC from 1.20 - 1.25v, VDD/VDDQ from 1.35 - 1.39v and it seems like no matter what I do, I get errors either in memtest86 or TestMem5 at random... It's funny, because yesterday I passed a full test of [email protected] config and then today when I booted I got errors on 1usmus after 3 minutes into the test and a BSOD soon after that... I could even play BFV for about an hour without any issues yesterday... Now I am not sure what to do. Should I accept it and run my ram on XMP 2 and call it a day or should I try to play around some more with the voltages? I am on air though, so no custom water cooling loop or anything like that. I have Noctua NH-D15 and the first fan is set a little lower, so it is slightly blowing air onto the RAM sticks, but not sure that is enough, because the temperature usually reaches 64°C (max.) on one of the sticks while doing the MemTest5 testing... Not even sure what's the safe daily temp. for this specific RAM or DDR5 in general? I've read one of the reviews and they were claiming that for DDR5 everything below 85°C is optimal? Is it? Of course during gaming the temp. didn't go that high, except when I played Hunt: Showdown there was one spike to 63°C...

I would like to know what can I realistically expect on my i7 12700k (so far stock, no OC on CPU) paired with Corsair Vengeance 5600CL36 (Samsung) on my Z690 Apex? I would like to run it on at least 6000 MHz with default XMP timings, but not sure I will ever be able to achieve stability... Is it the Apex board or is it my ram, or what gives? But reading so many bad things about the Apex board in general makes me think it may actually be the board itself... Or maybe my expectations are a little too high for my config? I still have until 5.5.2022 to make up my mind and return the Apex, but at the same time I am in a dilemma because I prefer ASUS software and BIOS... And also the software for controlling RGB and so on... Really not sure what to do...

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: RAM temperature screenshot.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Does not show the difference between this and 6400c28 1t.


----------



## Gadfly

MarkDeMark said:


> One question for whoever has bought the "Water Block RAM Direct Chip DDR5 Full Copper" from SuperCoolComputers. What exactly does the 97.74$ US kit contains? I simply do not understand their description: "One set contains RAM block 2 piece copper 1 piece". Wrote to them but they never answered. Is it a full kit for 2 memory modules- or is it a kit for one memory module and therefore need to buy two kits for 2 memory sticks?


Each kit contains 2 dimm water blocks, and 1 top block.

For a 2 dimm slot MB, like the Apex, you need 1 kit. For a 4 dimm slot board you need two kits, even if you are only running 2 dimms.

That said, I ordered two sets of the Dimm blocks, and a direct die water block (and paid) March 30th and I have not received them, nor have I received a tracking number, and all attempts to contact via email and phone for a status update have gone unanswered; to make things worse they also deleted their Facebook page.

I would recommend waiting before you buy anything until they start responding and shipping products.


----------



## z390e

wow good luck @Gadfly hope it all works out OK


----------



## Gadfly

7empe said:


> Lets wait for 13th gen and Z790. We will complain still, but at least everyone may hit the 7000 CL30 without troubles


Well the way things are looking it appears that Asus is unable to replace my Apex on RMA, so maybe they will just send me a Z790 apex when the time comes.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Gadfly said:


> Each kit contains 2 dimm water blocks, and 1 top block.
> 
> For a 2 dimm slot MB, like the Apex, you need 1 kit. For a 4 dimm slot board you need two kits, even if you are only running 2 dimms.
> 
> That said, I ordered two sets of the Dimm blocks, and a direct die water block (and paid) March 30th and I have not received them, nor have I received a tracking number, and all attempts to contact via email and phone for a status update have gone unanswered; to make things worse they also deleted their Facebook page.
> 
> I would recommend waiting before you buy anything until they start responding and shipping products.


Thanks for the clarification - And yes if you go to heir site, they are now out of stock for "Water Block RAM Direct Chip DDR5 Full Copper" - We'll just have to wait


----------



## Gadfly

MarkDeMark said:


> Thanks for the clarification - And yes if you go to heir site, they are now out of stock for "Water Block RAM Direct Chip DDR5 Full Copper" - We'll just have to wait


That isn’t the issue, they had lots of stock when orders were placed 3 weeks ago. They took the money and went dark, no products shipped, no response to contact, no “your order is delayed” email nothing. 

I am not the only one, there are a few people here waiting for them to ship paid orders and respond to Emails/calls.


----------



## Gadfly

Arni90 said:


> It might be possible to max out the kits on a good Z690 Apex, but I suspect you're more likely to run into IMC limitations before hitting DIMM limitations. You'd have to ask some XOC people, as they've got the tools to figure it out.
> 
> A better bin might be able to run some subtiming one or two ticks lower, which obviously does help, but is in no way significant in the larger picture.
> 
> If you want to go crazy with it, you bin one stick at a time for highest possible frequency and/or specific timings, depending on your needs.


just about every 12900k’s IMC will run 2 sticks at over 7000, As will most decent bin Hynix memory as long as it is properly cooled. I think we will see future bins of higher end kits will have much improved heat sink designs (as in real heat sinks with fins and fans). 

The big limitation right now appears to be motherboards. I looking for an alternative to my Apex, it looks like the Gigabye might be the best option.


----------



## sugi0lover

Gadfly said:


> That isn’t the issue, they had lots of stock when orders were placed 3 weeks ago. They took the money and went dark, no products shipped, no response to contact, no “your order is delayed” email nothing.
> 
> I am not the only one, there are a few people here waiting for them to ship paid orders and respond to Emails/calls.


I recently ordered direct die kit and I got email from them like below. not shipped yet.


----------



## toncij

Why is default tRAS so high on all of the DDR5 kits?


----------



## toncij

Gadfly said:


> just about every 12900k’s IMC will run 2 sticks at over 7000, As will most decent bin Hynix memory as long as it is properly cooled. I think we will see future bins of higher end kits will have much improved heat sink designs (as in real heat sinks with fins and fans).
> 
> The big limitation right now appears to be motherboards. I looking for an alternative to my Apex, it looks like the Gigabye might be the best option.


Do you have a good enough sample to claim so?
Why not Unify-X? Which GB board can support that kind of memory clock?


----------



## z390e

Gadfly said:


> Well the way things are looking it appears that Asus is unable to replace my Apex on RMA, so maybe they will just send me a Z790 apex when the time comes.


Odd you seem to be getting the runaround. My friend got RMA'd Apex back on Wednesday appears to work now. Will let you know how it turned out am going over there Sunday.


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> I recently ordered direct die kit and I got email from them like below. not shipped yet.
> View attachment 2557702


That is identical to the last message I got from them on March 30th


----------



## Gadfly

z390e said:


> Odd you seem to be getting the runaround. My friend got RMA'd Apex back on Wednesday appears to work now. Will let you know how it turned out am going over there Sunday.


Please do, they just keep telling me there is no stock.… here is message from today:



> Thank you for contacting ASUS Product Support.
> 
> My name is Jeff Michael P.. First and foremost, thank you for your patience while we completed our review and research of this issue. We apologize for the delay, and are grateful for the opportunity to continue to assist you.
> 
> Please be advised that we don't have an ETA on when will the stock be available in our inventory.
> 
> Please keep in mind that we are available for any future questions or concerns, so please reach out to our technical support team here: *Chat with Us* . This will allow us to gather more details on the description of the issue you are experiencing directly, especially on more complex and targeted situations.
> 
> Your case number for your future…


----------



## roooo

toncij said:


> Well... on my Apex the kit doesn't even run stable at XMP, let alone any higher.
> I've tried VDDC/VVDQ up to 1.425, SA 1.3, IMC 1.35... didn't help. It still failed Memtest.
> How do you recognize if it's the IMC or the board that's crap'n the bed?


Please do yourself a favour and don't waste precious time with a bugged early Apex (2021/11) as many of us did, me included. Suspect the board first, then your IMC. I wasn't able to run anywhere near XMP and RMA'd it. Got a Hero now and can run my sticks well beyond XMP with the same CPU. Wasted almost a month trying to debug issues which turned out to be batch-dependent bugs.

By the way, tried the Unify-X, too but did not like it as it did not play well with my Linux kernel of choice and coming from ROG boards, the BIOS is just meh. XMP was fine with it, though.


----------



## Flisker_new

So I guess I'm finally getting somewhere.

Flashed back 1304 bios, just to check there's not something wrong with the 1403 and it seems like that wasn't really the issue.

What I found probably most interesting is that tREFI of 65000 which everyone seems to agree is stable/fine, is not stable for me. That was the main issue and as buildzoid pointed out, it's pain to test for. Also when I check like all the screens here, nobody is posting hour+ runs of Prime small fft or some other similar continuous test. Which is where I was getting issues randomly, sometimes after 20 minutes, sometimes after 40, but always under 1 hour.

So I changed the tREFI to 45000 and did 2.5 hour of Prime small ftt, with no issues.

Other interesting thing is that many ppl run quite low tWRRD_sg/dg, somehow I can't do it on my board it just won't post so I ended up doing 64/52, 60/48 wouldn't boot, 62/50 wouldn't boot either I think... I don't know if this is related to the board, being 4 DIMM slot or if it's because tRDRD_sg/dg was already set to 11/7 and those are somehow related... but there is no way in hell I could do tWRRD of 54/44 or so.

So this is stable on ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F (will keep the MT5 running for few hours just to be sure, but that's not going to error out at this point)

6400-38-40-40 , the CL will most probably go lower and some other things will get tweaked, I'm just trying to finally get some decent stable baseline.


----------



## newls1

toncij said:


> Why is default tRAS so high on all of the DDR5 kits?


ive asked same question before, dont think i ever saw a reply


----------



## 7empe

Flisker_new said:


> So I guess I'm finally getting somewhere.
> 
> Flashed back 1304 bios, just to check there's not something wrong with the 1403 and it seems like that wasn't really the issue.
> 
> What I found probably most interesting is that tREFI of 65000 which everyone seems to agree is stable/fine, is not stable for me. That was the main issue and as buildzoid pointed out, it's pain to test for. Also when I check like all the screens here, nobody is posting hour+ runs of Prime small fft or some other similar continuous test. Which is where I was getting issues randomly, sometimes after 20 minutes, sometimes after 40, but always under 1 hour.
> 
> So I changed the tREFI to 45000 and did 2.5 hour of Prime small ftt, with no issues.
> 
> Other interesting thing is that many ppl run quite low tWRRD_sg/dg, somehow I can't do it on my board it just won't post so I ended up doing 64/52, 60/48 wouldn't boot, 62/50 wouldn't boot either I think... I don't know if this is related to the board, being 4 DIMM slot or if it's because tRDRD_sg/dg was already set to 11/7 and those are somehow related... but there is no way in hell I could do tWRRD of 54/44 or so.
> 
> So this is stable on ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F (will keep the MT5 running for few hours just to be sure, but that's not going to error out at this point)
> 
> 6400-38-40-40 , the CL will most probably go lower and some other things will get tweaked, I'm just trying to finally get some decent stable baseline.
> 
> View attachment 2557783


The small ffts does not go beyond the L3 cache. In my opinion, the lower tREFI gives you the higher latency, which gives you less pressure on the uncore parts of the CPU. Assuming that all the voltages are correct (SA, MC) I would try the following (if your board allows for setting that):


Raise Core, Ring and MC PLL voltage to 1V
Set tREFI back to 65535
test again


----------



## 7empe

newls1 said:


> ive asked same question before, dont think i ever saw a reply


From the JEDEC spec, lowest speed bin has min value defined.








Next, tREFI definition:









So, tRAS in clock cycles:

tCK(6400) = 0,313 ns
tRASmin = 32 ns / tCK = 102

The 6400 bin for comparison (no min value specified - I suppose it gets ~30 ns by default).









Having for example 6400 CL28-37-37-28. Does the tRAS = 28 apply? The tRC = 69 would suggest that it does. How to explain that tRAS < (tCL + tRCD) works fine? I don't know. I also do not see motherboard to auto-correct this value. Maybe it handles differently this timing and applies it as an offset/delay before precharge can be issued?


----------



## Gadfly

7empe said:


> From the JEDEC spec, lowest speed bin has min value defined.
> View attachment 2557787
> 
> Next, tREFI definition:
> View attachment 2557786
> 
> 
> So, tRAS in clock cycles:
> 
> tCK(6400) = 0,313 ns
> tRASmin = 32 ns / tCK = 102
> 
> The 6400 bin for comparison (no min value specified - I suppose it gets ~30 ns by default).
> 
> View attachment 2557788
> 
> Having for example 6400 CL28-37-37-28. Does the tRAS = 28 apply? The tRC = 69 would suggest that it does. How to explain that tRAS < (tCL + tRCD) works fine? I don't know. I also do not see motherboard to auto-correct this value. Maybe it handles differently this timing and applies it as an offset/delay before precharge can be issued?


Pretty sure It doesn’t apply, I am literally in the woods, but at 6400C28, tras of 28 is shorter than the act to act period and shouldn’t apply.


----------



## Gadfly

Flisker_new said:


> So I guess I'm finally getting somewhere.
> 
> Flashed back 1304 bios, just to check there's not something wrong with the 1403 and it seems like that wasn't really the issue.
> 
> What I found probably most interesting is that tREFI of 65000 which everyone seems to agree is stable/fine, is not stable for me. That was the main issue and as buildzoid pointed out, it's pain to test for. Also when I check like all the screens here, nobody is posting hour+ runs of Prime small fft or some other similar continuous test. Which is where I was getting issues randomly, sometimes after 20 minutes, sometimes after 40, but always under 1 hour.
> 
> So I changed the tREFI to 45000 and did 2.5 hour of Prime small ftt, with no issues.
> 
> Other interesting thing is that many ppl run quite low tWRRD_sg/dg, somehow I can't do it on my board it just won't post so I ended up doing 64/52, 60/48 wouldn't boot, 62/50 wouldn't boot either I think... I don't know if this is related to the board, being 4 DIMM slot or if it's because tRDRD_sg/dg was already set to 11/7 and those are somehow related... but there is no way in hell I could do tWRRD of 54/44 or so.
> 
> So this is stable on ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F (will keep the MT5 running for few hours just to be sure, but that's not going to error out at this point)
> 
> 6400-38-40-40 , the CL will most probably go lower and some other things will get tweaked, I'm just trying to finally get some decent stable baseline.
> 
> View attachment 2557783


That is a TON of voltage for 6400C38! what memory is that? 6400C30 with those kinds of timings should be under 1.4v Vdd/vddq, even with Samsung IC’s. Hynix 6400C30 1.40 - 1.45v depending on how tight you run the subs, 6400C28 1.43 - 1.48 depending on the subs. 

As for stability testing, running an overnight HCI memtest loop to 1500% should work, if you are looking to heat the memory up, tm5 with 1musus v3 for 10 loops will max out the temps (to an unrealistic level). Quick hit Y-chruncher 2.5b is a good tool for spot checks while you are tuning timings. If I can run 5 back to back 2.5b runs without error, the other memory tests almost always pass.

If you are having errors with P95 I would suspect SA voltage or the cache is not 100% stable before timings.

In any case, 1.5v VDD/VDDQ is really high For 6400C38.


----------



## AlderHead

My first post on this forum. I have been reading through these threads a lot. I have a quick noob question. I have G.Skill DDR5 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4V kit. Like many of you. I am running 11/2021 APEX and 12900K. I am now running @ 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-96 1.435V. I am not able to get 6400 MT/s Prime95 stable. Karhu runs fine for 13+ hours at 6400 1.45 but Prime95 gives me rounding errors. SA and MC on auto at 1.25V / 1.25V. I tried memory voltage of 1.46V but no help. So that is why 6200 for now.

Well, anyway. My question is that does the tRAS = tCL + tRCD + 2 apply for DDR5? I am planning to try 30-39-39-71? Well I will try and see, but I would like to get some insight into the matter. Thanks guys!


----------



## Afferin

AlderHead said:


> My first post on this forum. I have been reading through these threads a lot. I have a quick noob question. I have G.Skill DDR5 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4V kit. Like many of you. I am running 11/2021 APEX and 12900K. I am now running @ 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-96 1.435V. I am not able to get 6400 MT/s Prime95 stable. Karhu runs fine for 13+ hours at 6400 1.45 but Prime95 gives me rounding errors. SA and MC on auto at 1.25V / 1.25V. I tried memory voltage of 1.46V but no help. So that is why 6200 for now.
> 
> Well, anyway. My question is that does the tRAS = tCL + tRCD + 2 apply for DDR5? I am planning to try 30-39-39-71? Well I will try and see, but I would like to get some insight into the matter. Thanks guys!


I've been running tRAS = tCL - 2. On 1T I've been running tRAS = tCL. I think this is what most people I've seen have been running. Hope that helps!


----------



## Gadfly

AlderHead said:


> My first post on this forum. I have been reading through these threads a lot. I have a quick noob question. I have G.Skill DDR5 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4V kit. Like many of you. I am running 11/2021 APEX and 12900K. I am now running @ 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-96 1.435V. I am not able to get 6400 MT/s Prime95 stable. Karhu runs fine for 13+ hours at 6400 1.45 but Prime95 gives me rounding errors. SA and MC on auto at 1.25V / 1.25V. I tried memory voltage of 1.46V but no help. So that is why 6200 for now.
> 
> Well, anyway. My question is that does the tRAS = tCL + tRCD + 2 apply for DDR5? I am planning to try 30-39-39-71? Well I will try and see, but I would like to get some insight into the matter. Thanks guys!


try this:

set SA to offset:auto

mc you will have to hunt around for, my board won’t run anything over 1.237mc, 6400 sweet spots at 1.212v


----------



## Gadfly

toncij said:


> Do you have a good enough sample to claim so?
> Why not Unify-X? Which GB board can support that kind of memory clock?


me no; but Igor’s lab tested over 100 of them, think the average bootable was like 7200 or 7400, I don’t remember. 

unfi-X, dark hero kingpin, tachyon, a good apex, all can do it assuming you have some decent Hynix and can keep it properly cooled.


----------



## roooo

Pls. remove.


----------



## roooo

AlderHead said:


> My first post on this forum. I have been reading through these threads a lot. I have a quick noob question. I have G.Skill DDR5 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4V kit. Like many of you. I am running 11/2021 APEX and 12900K. I am now running @ 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-96 1.435V. I am not able to get 6400 MT/s Prime95 stable. Karhu runs fine for 13+ hours at 6400 1.45 but Prime95 gives me rounding errors. SA and MC on auto at 1.25V / 1.25V. I tried memory voltage of 1.46V but no help. So that is why 6200 for now.


Repeating myself, but please see _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability... . Neither regular O/C strategies nor spending hours on end trying fancy tricks will get you any further. And when you just thought you finally had it stable - try again next day and you'll remember my post ;-) There's just this: RMA it. Not kiddin. I would call myself an average O/Cer, but with roughly two decades of experience - but this particular one was unique for a reason.


----------



## roooo

---


----------



## AlderHead

roooo said:


> Repeating myself, but please see _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability... . Neither regular O/C strategies nor spending hours on end trying fancy tricks will get you any further. And when you just thought you finally had it stable - try again next day and you'll remember my post ;-) There's just this: RMA it. Not kiddin. I would call myself an average O/Cer, but with roughly two decades of experience - but this particular one was unique for a reason.


What? I am perfectly happy with my 6200 MT/s memory. No need for any RMA, it works great. Also, the APEX is discontinued now so there will be no new revisions. I knew what I was getting my self into when buying one. I do not want any crazy overclocks. Just some little extra performance that can be had. The computer is for my kids to play games etc. Also, I play some games myself from time to time. Running the CPU stock on air.

Source: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread

Are there any good guides for DDR5 and the second and third timings? Or can I just follow a DDR4 quide. I would like to thighten some easy settings that would give me some boost but not to compromise file system integrity. I can not afford any data loss etc. down the line. If not possible I am fine with auto too.


----------



## 7empe

Gadfly said:


> try this:
> 
> set SA to offset:auto
> 
> mc you will have to hunt around for, my board won’t run anything over 1.237mc, 6400 sweet spots at 1.212v


It looks like we have similar IMC needs, so if you would like to swap the board, then:

6400 CL28 - IMC 1.212V, SA 1.20V
6666 CL30 - IMC 1.262V, SA 1.25V
6800 CL30 - IMC 1.325V, SA 1.35V


----------



## AlderHead

Gadfly said:


> try this:
> 
> set SA to offset:auto
> 
> mc you will have to hunt around for, my board won’t run anything over 1.237mc, 6400 sweet spots at 1.212v


Thank you for replying my friend. I do not want any tedious tinkering. If auto will not work and I need to change too many variables I just leave it as is and be a happy camper. It is super fast for me as it is coming from an 10 year old Ivy Bridge system.


----------



## 7empe

AlderHead said:


> What? I am perfectly happy with my 6200 MT/s memory. No need for any RMA, it works great. Also, the APEX is discontinued now so there will be no new revisions. I knew what I was getting my self into when buying one. I do not want any crazy overclocks. Just some little extra performance that can be had. The computer is for my kids to play games etc. Also, I play some games myself from time to time. Running the CPU stock on air.
> 
> Source: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> Are there any good guides for DDR5 and the second and third timings? Or can I just follow a DDR4 quide. I would like to thighten some easy settings that would give me some boost but not to compromise file system integrity. I can not afford any data loss etc. down the line. If not possible I am fine with auto too.


My first attempt would be trying to increase the frequency starting from XMP settings and without touching anything else, including voltages. If your kit is 6200 MT/s, try to pick the 6400 MT/s and do the mem test. In most cases this should work, because CAS latency and other timings are quite often on the safe side at XMP. Eventually, if this produces some errors, you may try raising the VDD/VDDQ a little bit (like 20-30 mV).


----------



## AlderHead

7empe said:


> My first attempt would be trying to increase the frequency starting from XMP settings and without touching anything else, including voltages. If your kit is 6200 MT/s, try to pick the 6400 MT/s and do the mem test. In most cases this should work, because CAS latency and other timings are quite often on the safe side at XMP. Eventually, if this produces some errors, you may try raising the VDD/VDDQ a little bit (like 20-30 mV).


It works +13h and more at 6400 MT/s and 1.45V. Memtest86 stable etc. No problem in that. I just need to set the DDR voltage to the HIGH DRAM MODE in BIOS. I just do not feel comfortable for that as a 24/7 setting. I like to stay in the 1.435V that is max voltage for the normal mode.


----------



## 7empe

AlderHead said:


> It works +13h and more at 6400 MT/s and 1.45V. Memtest86 stable etc. No problem in that. I just need to set the DDR voltage to the HIGH DRAM MODE in BIOS. I just do not feel comfortable for that as a 24/7 setting. I like to stay in the 1.435V that is max voltage for the normal mode.
> 
> View attachment 2557929


1.45V is perfectly OK as long as heat is not an issue. Soon you will see XMP rated at 1.45V and 1.50V as well. Imagine that JEDEC default voltage is 1.1V for DDR5. Current 1.40V XMP is already way above the spec


----------



## AlderHead

7empe said:


> 1.45V is perfectly OK as long as heat is not an issue. Soon you will see XMP rated at 1.45V and 1.50V as well. Imagine that JEDEC default voltage is 1.1V for DDR5. Current 1.40V XMP is already way above the spec


Thanks great to hear. What would be the max voltage for 24/7 operation. No additional cooling on the RAM sticks. Just some splash of air coming from the CPU air cooler oriented airflow wise front to back. Also, what is the max temp I should not go over on the memory? Now max temps are hitting about 55°C in full Karhu load. I am not going to install any extra fans on the memory. 

But then again if something breaks I will just buy new parts. But it seems the MB is discontinued so that has to survive for many years from now. Memory and CPU can be replaced so no worries there.


----------



## 7empe

AlderHead said:


> Thanks great to hear. What would be the max voltage for 24/7 operation. No additional cooling on the RAM sticks. Just some splash of air coming from the CPU air cooler oriented airflow wise front to back. Also, what is the max temp I should not go over on the memory? Now max temps are hitting about 55°C in full Karhu load. I am not going to install any extra fans on the memory.
> 
> But then again if something breaks I will just buy new parts. But it seems the MB is discontinued so that has to survive for many years from now. Memory and CPU can be replaced so no worries there.


Taking into account that you have an air-cooled CPU (and probably GPU), there is a lot of hot air inside the case already. Therefore, I would stick to the VDD 1.45V, especially that you have already tested temperature-related stability. Remember that 55°C is reported on the SPD hub, so the memory chip itself will be slightly hotter, but still nothing unusual. PMIC high temperature warning starts at 125°C and shutdown temperature is 145°C. Memory chips should handle up to 95°C. At least according to the JEDEC spec.

Pushing higher VDD requires at least fan blowing on the sticks - cooler the sticks are, better the OC headroom is.

Just FYI - I run 1.55V but with water-cooling block on the sticks, and temperature is around 29°C during Karhu load.


----------



## inedenimadam

Any rumblings on a new bios for the Unify-X? 31 is hot garbage, and I want to unlock the pmic of these green dell sticks so bad.

To be clear: PMIC unlock on 31 was successful, but setting VDDQ TX above 1.3V at any speed/timing combo will not post, and that severely limits how far I can take this 2*32 sticks.


----------



## asdkj1740

the spd temp reported in hwinfo64 is actually not that reliable when you want to keep the dram ic cooled.
so slap a fan on top of your ram sticks because better active cooling always helps.
cpu temp also would mess up your ddr5 oc, so keep your fan speeds to certain levels to duplicate the cooling situation that fits your normal uses.


----------



## db000

Doing some small tweaks again.. 

12900KS - 5.2GHz P-cores all-core (OCTVB disabled) - E-cores Disabled - 4.3GHz ring/cache
*6600-30-38-38-28-360-2T
VDD: 1.57v
VDDQ: 1.52v
VDDQ TX: 1.52v
VCCSA: 1.20v
MC: 1.34375v*
BIOS 1304
*







*


----------



## KedarWolf

der8auer has worked with Thermal Grizzly to create an Intel Alder Lake CPU Contact Frame


This tool may be a must for hardware Alder Lake overclockers




www.overclock3d.net


----------



## Arni90

KedarWolf said:


> der8auer has worked with Thermal Grizzly to create an Intel Alder Lake CPU Contact Frame
> 
> 
> This tool may be a must for hardware Alder Lake overclockers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock3d.net


He could stand to pick up something from supercool: Köpfen, Kühlen, Klotzen – Supercool Computers Direct-Die Wasserblock und Delid-Tool für Intel Alder Lake | Praxistest mit dem Intel Core i9-12900K | igor´sLAB

I don't think they've patented it.


----------



## toncij

Gadfly said:


> me no; but Igor’s lab tested over 100 of them, think the average bootable was like 7200 or 7400, I don’t remember.
> 
> unfi-X, dark hero kingpin, tachyon, a good apex, all can do it assuming you have some decent Hynix and can keep it properly cooled.


So far I've noticed DDR5 is incredibly sensitive to temperature. If I don't actively cool it, my G.Skill Hynix-M 6400CL32 goes to touch 57+ and then it starts crapping out even at XMP (I and II whatever that differed in).
However, can't be sure if it's the board, RAM kit or CPU. Added a bit to SA (1.245V) and Memory Ctrl. (1.2625V) and it's "XMP1" stable, but needs active cooling to stay under 55+ (one fan keeps it at max 45°C under MemTest86 Pro). Really not sure what might be the issue or whether any of these are safe voltages and how high should I go with those for any of the speeds.

7200/7400... even 6800 seems like fantasy without burning it down. Any suggestions?

P.S. Is EVGA Z690 Kingpin sold in Europe anyway?


----------



## toncij

roooo said:


> Please do yourself a favour and don't waste precious time with a bugged early Apex (2021/11) as many of us did, me included. Suspect the board first, then your IMC. I wasn't able to run anywhere near XMP and RMA'd it. Got a Hero now and can run my sticks well beyond XMP with the same CPU. Wasted almost a month trying to debug issues which turned out to be batch-dependent bugs.
> 
> By the way, tried the Unify-X, too but did not like it as it did not play well with my Linux kernel of choice and coming from ROG boards, the BIOS is just meh. XMP was fine with it, though.


Hmm, I'm past my window of return for it. Do we know if an Extreme works fine? How much does the 4-DIMM layout impact it?


----------



## toncij

Also, what cooling you guys use for 2-DIMM boards?


----------



## owikh84

toncij said:


> Hmm, I'm past my window of return for it. Do we know if an Extreme works fine? How much does the 4-DIMM layout impact it?


My 2011 Extreme can only stable up to 6200 max. At 6400+ I will get TM5 errors no matter how much effort I put. The same CPU and RAM can do up to 6600 on Hero and 7000 on Unify ITX.


----------



## Ketku-

How many removed here DDR5 Heatsinks with Thinner or some kind of chemical? Luumi using it. Only thinking how long i hold them there in Thinner and its for sure the electronik wont affect it and broken? Friday start my memory project to put them water block.


----------



## toncij

owikh84 said:


> My 2011 Extreme can only stable up to 6200 max. At 6400+ I will get TM5 errors no matter how much effort I put. The same CPU and RAM can do up to 6600 on Hero and 7000 on Unify ITX.


XMP I or II? (what is the difference anyway?) 

So it's the boards... hmm. Hopefully for Raptor Asus will put more effort to Apex and other boards, especially Extreme and its 2000€ sister Glacial.


----------



## snakeeyes111

toncij said:


> XMP I or II? (what is the difference anyway?)


Description on the bottom in bios!

Xmp1 asus xmp
Xmp2 default dimm xmp


----------



## toncij

snakeeyes111 said:


> Description below in bios!
> 
> Xmp1 asus xmp
> Xmp2 default dimm xmp


Yeah, know that much, but - how do they adjust those? XMPII is default, but is XMPI applied upon XMPII or upon JEDEC default? Does XMPI at all work for non-QVL kits (like G.Skill 6400CL32 that hasn't been validated).


----------



## db000

Ketku- said:


> How many removed here DDR5 Heatsinks with Thinner or some kind of chemical? Luumi using it. Only thinking how long i hold them there in Thinner and its for sure the electronik wont affect it and broken? Friday start my memory project to put them water block.


I've followed this advice from @Carillo and removed heatsinks from three kits. Works really well. Just be careful with ESD etc.  A slim sharp knife, carpet knife or slim kitchen knife of sort. Make sure to point the blade upwards towards heatsink. I've not tried the Thinner method, no epoxi glue on these.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Did you use Asus Tweak Mode 1 / 2 or leave it on AUTO? Thanks. What does the asus tweak mode thing do?




www.overclock.net


----------



## 7empe

db000 said:


> I've followed this advice from @Carillo and removed heatsinks from three kits. Works really well. Just be careful with ESD etc.  A slim sharp knife, carpet knife or slim kitchen knife of sort. Make sure to point the blade upwards towards heatsink. I've not tried the Thinner method, no epoxi glue on these.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Did you use Asus Tweak Mode 1 / 2 or leave it on AUTO? Thanks. What does the asus tweak mode thing do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


I removed the heatsinks on all 4 kits of Trident Z by using the hairdrier and own nails  Easy and clean method.


----------



## Ketku-

7empe said:


> I removed the heatsinks on all 4 kits of Trident Z by using the hairdrier and own nails  Easy and clean method.


Not bad idea too.  Luumi and few others here used thinner and worked well too. Only thinking if it broke something, but i trust these guys.


----------



## 7empe

Ketku- said:


> Not bad idea too.  Luumi and few others here used thinner and worked well too. Only thinking if it broke something, but i trust these guys.


What I dislike in thinner method is that sticks does not look so clean anymore after heatsink gets removed. Moreover, with the hairdrier if you are cautious enough, you may remove the heatsink together with the thermal pad untouched, so you can put everything back together if sticks require the RMA


----------



## owikh84

toncij said:


> XMP I or II? (what is the difference anyway?)
> 
> So it's the boards... hmm. Hopefully for Raptor Asus will put more effort to Apex and other boards, especially Extreme and its 2000€ sister Glacial.


Good question. It's my Hynix 6000 CL40 kit from Kingston but I never run it at XMP 
Now I already moved to ITX build with that Z690I Unify board instead.


----------



## Nizzen

What is XMP


----------



## centvalny

Testing bios, better ratio 8k









Intel Core i9 12900KS @ 1552.36 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[c4zw74] Validated Dump by dumo (2022-04-26 10:29:52) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX - RAM: 16384 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## Neur0Mortis

_





Ketku- said:



How many removed here DDR5 Heatsinks with Thinner or some kind of chemical? Luumi using it. Only thinking how long i hold them there in Thinner and its for sure the electronik wont affect it and broken? Friday start my memory project to put them water block.

Click to expand...




Ketku- said:



Not bad idea too.  Luumi and few others here used thinner and worked well too. Only thinking if it broke something, but i trust these guys.

Click to expand...




7empe said:



What I dislike in thinner method is that sticks does not look so clean anymore after heatsink gets removed. Moreover, with the hairdrier if you are cautious enough, you may remove the heatsink together with the thermal pad untouched, so you can put everything back together if sticks require the RMA 

Click to expand...



Click to expand...

_I used the thinner method on my 6400 CL32's. Only needed to leave each stick in the thinner for 20-30 minutes max and came right apart. Then immediately dried off the sticks and dropped in 99% isopropyl to clean them up. Nothing wrong with the sticks, absolutely clean & dark black _(no fading)_, etc.

_





toncij said:



Hmm, I'm past my window of return for it. Do we know if an Extreme works fine? How much does the 4-DIMM layout impact it?

Click to expand...




owikh84 said:



My 2011 Extreme can only stable up to 6200 max. At 6400+ I will get TM5 errors no matter how much effort I put. The same CPU and RAM can do up to 6600 on Hero and 7000 on Unify ITX.

Click to expand...



Click to expand...

_Personally, my Extreme sucked. Nothing I could do could get the RAM stable over 5600 MHz with all timings at auto _(note: this was with 5 different kits - 2 being 6400 CL32)_. Couldn't get the XMP timings to run stable unless the clockspeed was dropped to 4800 _(and even them, it was barely so)_. This was after replacing a lousy Formula board that ended up dying anyway. Was able to fully return both boards and am now happily chugging away on an EVGA Classy board with absolutely no stability issues whatsoever. . . kind of boring how uneventful things have been between the solid running memory and problem free CPU overclock. lol


----------



## Ketku-

Neur0Mortis said:


> I used the thinner method on my 6400 CL32's. Only needed to leave each stick in the thinner for 20-30 minutes max and came right apart. Then immediately dried off the sticks and dropped in 99% isopropyl to clean them up. Nothing wrong with the sticks, absolutely clean & dark black _(no fading)_, etc.


So thinner is good idea remove Heatsinks, no problemos


----------



## Neur0Mortis

Ketku- said:


> So thinner is good idea remove Heatsinks, no problemos


Yup yup. Worked perfect for me and sure as hell simplified the process compared to the last set of sticks I did _(where 1 ended up dying in the process - lol)_. This was problem free and even simplified the removal of the residues after removing the spreaders. The thinner will be my go to method from now on.


----------



## toncij

owikh84 said:


> Good question. It's my Hynix 6000 CL40 kit from Kingston but I never run it at XMP
> Now I already moved to ITX build with that Z690I Unify board instead.


What setup is your ITX now running at? I really miss my Intel ITXes, but I'm so annoyed by only a 2.5G NIC...



Neur0Mortis said:


> I used the thinner method on my 6400 CL32's. Only needed to leave each stick in the thinner for 20-30 minutes max and came right apart. Then immediately dried off the sticks and dropped in 99% isopropyl to clean them up. Nothing wrong with the sticks, absolutely clean & dark black _(no fading)_, etc.
> 
> 
> Personally, my Extreme sucked. Nothing I could do could get the RAM stable over 5600 MHz with all timings at auto _(note: this was with 5 different kits - 2 being 6400 CL32)_. Couldn't get the XMP timings to run stable unless the clockspeed was dropped to 4800 _(and even them, it was barely so)_. This was after replacing a lousy Formula board that ended up dying anyway. Was able to fully return both boards and am now happily chugging away on an EVGA Classy board with absolutely no stability issues whatsoever. . . kind of boring how uneventful things have been between the solid running memory and problem free CPU overclock. lol


Custom water cooled including RAM?


----------



## owikh84

toncij said:


> What setup is your ITX now running at? I really miss my Intel ITXes, but I'm so annoyed by only a 2.5G NIC...


CPU: 12900K SP88 (P100/E65) @ P51/ E40/ R41 | LLC Auto, Vcore Offset -0.140v | Idle 29C, R23 Load 84C, ambient 28C
Mobo: MSI Z690I Unify
RAM: Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 @ 6600 30-39-39-28-2T @ 1.5v
GPU: ROG Strix 3080 Ti Undervolt 1905 @ 925 mV | Load 76C
SSD: WD SN850 1TB + EK M.2 Heatsink + Crucial MX500 2TB
HDD: Toshiba X300 4TB
PSU: CM V850 SFX
Case: Jonsplus i100 Pro
Cooling: EK-AIO Elite 360mm 3x Vardar-S Fan PWM mode


----------



## owikh84

Good news for those who love "populated" 4 DIMMs 
V-Color 6400 kit with additional two _dummy_ modules.










Source: v-color introduces DDR5 Manta XPrism RGB memory, 2x16GB DDR5-6400 CL32 1.4V costs 539 USD - VideoCardz.com


----------



## ReDXfiRe

Should I worry about something? Read some comments about 2021/11. This is a Z690-G Gaming WIFI. Got two DIMMS (XPG 6000C40 2x16GB Samsung) that cannot be stable in stress tests (CPU) but they are in Karhu... Only way getting them stable is lowering frequency to 5600 MT/s. Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## inedenimadam

Ketku- said:


> How many removed here DDR5 Heatsinks with Thinner or some kind of chemical? Luumi using it. Only thinking how long i hold them there in Thinner and its for sure the electronik wont affect it and broken? Friday start my memory project to put them water block.


I loosened the glue up a bit with isopropyl alcohol and used a guitar pick to get them out. Gskill used some really healthy glue, they are a pain. Bonus goes to Dell for not including any heatspreaders.


----------



## Neur0Mortis

toncij said:


> Custom water cooled including RAM?


RAM's just chilled with 3x 40mm Noctua fans _(and bitspower heatspreaders)_. I have the bitspower and monarch ram blocks sitting here, but lack the clearance due to my top rad. Been fighting the urge to buy the 1000D to over compensate for that. lol


----------



## sugi0lover

ReDXfiRe said:


> WIFI. Got two DIMMS (XPG 6000C40 2x16GB Samsung) that cannot be stable in stress tests (CPU) but they are in Karhu... Only way getting them stable is lowering frequency to 5600 MT/s. Thanks for any feedback.





7empe said:


> What I dislike in thinner method is that sticks does not look so clean anymore after heatsink gets removed. Moreover, with the hairdrier if you are cautious enough, you may remove the heatsink together with the thermal pad untouched, so you can put everything back together if sticks require the RMA


I agree. This took me not even 2 minutes with a hairdrier.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Able to run y cruncher at 7kc32 1t. Not sure its real 1T or not. Still test its stability.


----------



## Nizzen

owikh84 said:


> Good news for those who love "populated" 4 DIMMs
> V-Color 6400 kit with additional two _dummy_ modules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: v-color introduces DDR5 Manta XPrism RGB memory, 2x16GB DDR5-6400 CL32 1.4V costs 539 USD - VideoCardz.com


Great way to cook the dimms. Great job v-color 🤣


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Able to run y cruncher at 7kc32 1t. Not sure its real 1T or not. Still test its stability.
> 
> View attachment 2558386
> 
> View attachment 2558387


Great job! Looks like a nice MB 🤩
Aida64?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

And it passed. This Gskill kit is from centsvalny. Cpu got swapped to a ****ty one. Thanks to supercool.


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> And it passed. This Gskill kit is from centsvalny. Cpu got swapped to a ****ty one. Thanks to supercool.
> View attachment 2558417


As TM5 says, you should run it with administrator privileges not compatibility mode. But I think it will still pass tm5. Good Result!


----------



## Flisker_new

Gadfly said:


> That is a TON of voltage for 6400C38! what memory is that? 6400C30 with those kinds of timings should be under 1.4v Vdd/vddq, even with Samsung IC’s. Hynix 6400C30 1.40 - 1.45v depending on how tight you run the subs, 6400C28 1.43 - 1.48 depending on the subs.
> 
> As for stability testing, running an overnight HCI memtest loop to 1500% should work, if you are looking to heat the memory up, tm5 with 1musus v3 for 10 loops will max out the temps (to an unrealistic level). Quick hit Y-chruncher 2.5b is a good tool for spot checks while you are tuning timings. If I can run 5 back to back 2.5b runs without error, the other memory tests almost always pass.
> 
> If you are having errors with P95 I would suspect SA voltage or the cache is not 100% stable before timings.
> 
> In any case, 1.5v VDD/VDDQ is really high For 6400C38.


Yea, I will work on the voltages when I get more time. 6400C30 runs fine also btw, still doing some timing tweaking.


----------



## borant

Thanh Nguyen said:


> And it passed. This Gskill kit is from centsvalny. Cpu got swapped to a ****ty one. Thanks to supercool.
> View attachment 2558417


What was IMC (VDD2) voltage?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

borant said:


> What was IMC (VDD2) voltage?


Voltage on evga is a bug. So I just leave it auto.


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Voltage on evga is a bug. So I just leave it auto.


Can you please use Dragonball to check cmd stretch to confirm if it's real 1T or not.


----------



## KedarWolf

G.SKILL Announces New Ultra Low-Latency DDR5-6600 CL34 Memory Kit - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


22 April 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is pleased to announce the launch of an ultra-low latency, high-speed DDR5-6600 CL34 32GB 2x16GB memory kit under the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5...




www.gskill.com


----------



## borant

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Voltage on evga is a bug. So I just leave it auto.


Plz check HWiNFO reading from CPU.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

borant said:


> Plz check HWiNFO reading from CPU.


Vsa set 1.3v and it still shows 1.8v in hwinfo. So I dont think those value means anything. And its not only on my system. Others see the same. Lumni said its just a bug.


----------



## borant

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Vsa set 1.3v and it still shows 1.8v in hwinfo. So I dont think those value means anything. And its not only on my system. Others see the same. Lumni said its just a bug.


Does it even show VSA or 1,8v is for VDD2? In your previous post you had 1,59 IMC for 6800 and no VSA.



Thanh Nguyen said:


> Does not show the difference between this and 6400c28 1t.
> 
> View attachment 2557648


----------



## 7empe

Looking for an advice. I’ve 6400c28 profile that works perfectly fine. I play BFV/BF2042 without issues. Then my profile 6666c30 (same problem with 6800c30) gives me random CTD (with or without DX error device_hung) or even freeze for a few seconds then reboot without bsod. What do you think it can be? Increasing vcore and sa does not help.

All the memtests like karhu/tm5 are stable. May it be the board (Apex 11/21) itself that causes these crashes?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Arni90

owikh84 said:


> Good news for those who love "populated" 4 DIMMs
> V-Color 6400 kit with additional two _dummy_ modules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: v-color introduces DDR5 Manta XPrism RGB memory, 2x16GB DDR5-6400 CL32 1.4V costs 539 USD - VideoCardz.com


Finally a use for the 4 DIMM boards.



Nizzen said:


> Great way to cook the dimms. Great job v-color 🤣


Still better than being limited to 4800 due to poor trace layout


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

borant said:


> Does it even show VSA or 1,8v is for VDD2? In your previous post you had 1,59 IMC for 6800 and no VSA.


I think hwinfo shows 1.8v vsa, 1.5 vdd2, 1.9 vccin.Only memory voltage shows the same number in bios. U can try those number in apex to see if it post coz when i use those number in bios, pc does not post.


----------



## bscool

7empe said:


> Looking for an advice. I’ve 6400c28 profile that works perfectly fine. I play BFV/BF2042 without issues. Then my profile 6666c30 (same problem with 6800c30) gives me random CTD (with or without DX error device_hung) or even freeze for a few seconds then reboot without bsod. What do you think it can be? Increasing vcore and sa does not help.
> 
> All the memtests like karhu/tm5 are stable. May it be the board (Apex 11/21) itself that causes these crashes?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I had similar issues on 2021 Apex. Using same CPU and mem in 2022 Apex and can run 7000c32 with no issues.

The 2021 Apex is fine for me at 6400 but past that tough to get stable.


----------



## db000

7empe said:


> Looking for an advice. I’ve 6400c28 profile that works perfectly fine. I play BFV/BF2042 without issues. Then my profile 6666c30 (same problem with 6800c30) gives me random CTD (with or without DX error device_hung) or even freeze for a few seconds then reboot without bsod. What do you think it can be? Increasing vcore and sa does not help.
> 
> All the memtests like karhu/tm5 are stable. May it be the board (Apex 11/21) itself that causes these crashes?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


What ring/cache are you running? How many % in Karhu? Do you have any more noticable stutters while playing BFV/BF2042 on the 6666/6800 profiles? I've lowered mine currently to 4.3 (from 4.7) while testing my new profile 6600-30-38-38-28-360-2T 1.57v.


----------



## SoldierRBT

7empe said:


> Looking for an advice. I’ve 6400c28 profile that works perfectly fine. I play BFV/BF2042 without issues. Then my profile 6666c30 (same problem with 6800c30) gives me random CTD (with or without DX error device_hung) or even freeze for a few seconds then reboot without bsod. What do you think it can be? Increasing vcore and sa does not help.
> 
> All the memtests like karhu/tm5 are stable. May it be the board (Apex 11/21) itself that causes these crashes?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I've experienced the same when the profile doesn't load correctly. I'd suggest to clear cmos, remove power until lights are off. Power it on and let it boot once with default settings then load profile. If it's still happening, try to lower MC voltage a little bit.


----------



## Ketku-

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I think hwinfo shows 1.8v vsa, 1.5 vdd2, 1.9 vccin.Only memory voltage shows the same number in bios. U can try those number in apex to see if it post coz when i use those number in bios, pc does not post.


Insane vccsa voltage. Do you have new HwInfo? If its bug or you look something wrong..


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> Insane vccsa voltage. Do you have new HwInfo? If its bug or you look something wrong..


Try newest aida64 beta


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> And it passed. This Gskill kit is from centsvalny. Cpu got swapped to a ****ty one. Thanks to supercool.
> View attachment 2558417


Pleace run Aida64 memory benchmark 
Use newest beta





Download AIDA64 Extreme (beta) 6.60.5944 (ZIP) | AIDA64


The official download location of AIDA64 Extreme (beta) 6.60.5944 (ZIP)



www.aida64.com


----------



## 7empe

db000 said:


> What ring/cache are you running? How many % in Karhu? Do you have any more noticable stutters while playing BFV/BF2042 on the 6666/6800 profiles? I've lowered mine currently to 4.3 (from 4.7) while testing my new profile 6600-30-38-38-28-360-2T 1.57v.


I use e-cores, so cache is set to constant 43x. I've noticed higher FPS in BF thanks to having e-cores enabled, than just having cache at 49x.
Goal for Karhu is 20000% of coverage. Few hours.
No stutters, everything butter smooth and these are the only games that CTD. Probably due to heavier memory usage than other productions.

And an update on that issue. BF2042 rarely just CTD. Most often is the DX Error DEVICE_REMOVED or similar. BFV has not DX error indication, just CTD. If I have no errors in memtests, logical would be to exclude memory from the equation. Going further, all the issues seems to be related with PCIe and these strange "freezes+reboots" without bsod indicates that something completely goes out of sync, just like cache, SA, PCIe controller or something similar crashes instantly. Using 6666c30 profile, I went to Tweaker's Paradaise and:


ramped up pcie bclk amplitude to "900 mV"
pcie bclk slew rate to "fast"
turned of the pcie bclk spread spectrum

After boot, I was able to play whole 30 minute round in BFV without CTD. This did not happen earlier. Today I'm going to play more to check, if this was just a coincidence or hopefully real solution.


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> I use e-cores, so cache is set to constant 43x. I've noticed higher FPS in BF thanks to having e-cores enabled, than just having cache at 49x.
> Goal for Karhu is 20000% of coverage. Few hours.
> No stutters, everything butter smooth and these are the only games that CTD. Probably due to heavier memory usage than other productions.
> 
> And an update on that issue. BF2042 rarely just CTD. Most often is the DX Error DEVICE_REMOVED or similar. BFV has not DX error indication, just CTD. If I have no errors in memtests, logical would be to exclude memory from the equation. Going further, all the issues seems to be related with PCIe and these strange "freezes+reboots" without bsod indicates that something completely goes out of sync, just like cache, SA, PCIe controller or something similar crashes instantly. Using 6666c30 profile, I went to Tweaker's Paradaise and:
> 
> 
> ramped up pcie bclk amplitude to "900 mV"
> pcie bclk slew rate to "fast"
> turned of the pcie bclk spread spectrum
> 
> After boot, I was able to play whole 30 minute round in BFV without CTD. This did not happen earlier. Today I'm going to play more to check, if this was just a coincidence or hopefully real solution.


For me in BF 2042, ctd is unstable cpu. Dx error is unstable memory.

Haven't played the new patch yet, but disable e-cores and running 50 cache and 5.5ghz all core, gives more fps for me. In this game.


----------



## asdkj1740

what do you guys think about the latest controversy between msi 10000c72 vs gigabyte 10000c46?


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> For me in BF 2042, ctd is unstable cpu. Dx error is unstable memory.
> 
> Haven't played the new patch yet, but disable e-cores and running 50 cache and 5.5ghz all core, gives more fps for me. In this game.


Another round in BF2042 - no issues so far since the last bios tweak...

I've been measuring FPS using the CapFrameX (average of the 20 minutes) of the same BF2042 map (conquest mode). 3440x1440, everything on High with HBAOFULL. RT disabled.

8C+8c: p-cores 52x-54x (octvb) while playing / e-cores 42x / cache 43x
8C: p-cores 52x-54x (octvb) while playing / cache 49x










By the way, this is my 6666c30 profile I am using right now for testing. If the PCIe tweak really solves the issue, then I will move back to 6800c30 and try the same again.

vdd: 1.55V
vddq/tx: 1.50V
mc: 1.26V
sa: 1.20V


----------



## 7empe

asdkj1740 said:


> what do you guys think about the latest controversy between msi 10000c72 vs gigabyte 10000c46?


Did not happen, until it is 10000c30.


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Another round in BF2042 - no issues so far since the last bios tweak...
> 
> I've been measuring FPS using the CapFrameX (average of the 20 minutes) of the same BF2042 map (conquest mode).
> 
> 8C+8c: p-cores 52x-54x (octvb) while playing / e-cores 42x / cache 43x
> 8C: p-cores 52x-54x (octvb) while playing / cache 49x
> 
> View attachment 2558635
> 
> 
> By the way, this is my 6666c30 profile I am using right now for testing. If the PCIe tweak really solves the issue, then I will move back to 6800c30 and try the same again.
> 
> vdd: 1.55V
> vddq/tx: 1.50V
> mc: 1.26V
> sa: 1.20V
> 
> View attachment 2558633


Need test again for myself. Running 7000c30.
I find all core oc the best in games. Ps I play Bf games and Quake


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Need test again for myself. Running 7000c30.
> I find all core oc the best in games. Ps I play Bf games and Quake


Do you keep c-states on auto or disabled when running all core oc? Thanks!


----------



## satinghostrider

7empe said:


> I use e-cores, so cache is set to constant 43x. I've noticed higher FPS in BF thanks to having e-cores enabled, than just having cache at 49x.
> Goal for Karhu is 20000% of coverage. Few hours.
> No stutters, everything butter smooth and these are the only games that CTD. Probably due to heavier memory usage than other productions.
> 
> And an update on that issue. BF2042 rarely just CTD. Most often is the DX Error DEVICE_REMOVED or similar. BFV has not DX error indication, just CTD. If I have no errors in memtests, logical would be to exclude memory from the equation. Going further, all the issues seems to be related with PCIe and these strange "freezes+reboots" without bsod indicates that something completely goes out of sync, just like cache, SA, PCIe controller or something similar crashes instantly. Using 6666c30 profile, I went to Tweaker's Paradaise and:
> 
> 
> ramped up pcie bclk amplitude to "900 mV"
> pcie bclk slew rate to "fast"
> turned of the pcie bclk spread spectrum
> 
> After boot, I was able to play whole 30 minute round in BFV without CTD. This did not happen earlier. Today I'm going to play more to check, if this was just a coincidence or hopefully real solution.


I also notice the same with Vanguard. My E-cores are pleasantly utilized in the game and FPS is noticeably higher than with E-cores off. I do CTD randomly before and find running min. LLC4 alot more stable than the previous LLC3 I was using. Oddly LLC3-5 I've tested had no issues to pass Cinebench R23 repeatedly.Seems something with game engines and LLC at least from my setup.


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> Do you keep c-states on auto or disabled when running all core oc? Thanks!


C-states off to gain 0.01% better performance 😇


----------



## 7empe

satinghostrider said:


> I also notice the same with Vanguard. My E-cores are pleasantly utilized in the game and FPS is noticeably higher than with E-cores off. I do CTD randomly before and find running min. LLC4 alot more stable than the previous LLC3 I was using. Oddly LLC3-5 I've tested had no issues to pass Cinebench R23 repeatedly.Seems something with game engines and LLC at least from my setup.


I am at LLC4. IMO, CPU is stable enough for BF-like load. CB15 Extreme, CB20, CB23 stable too. For Y-cruncher I need to add +20 mV.


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> Need test again for myself. Running 7000c30.
> I find all core oc the best in games. Ps I play Bf games and Quake


Do you use 7000c30 as your daily? What voltages?


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Do you use 7000c30 as your daily? What voltages?


Yes daily. Around 1.55v load. If I remember correct. At work now


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> Yes daily. Around 1.55v load. If I remember correct. At work now


Golden sticks paired with gold cpu. Let me know your Vddq and VddqTx when you have a chance. Thanks!


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> Pleace run Aida64 memory benchmark
> Use newest beta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download AIDA64 Extreme (beta) 6.60.5944 (ZIP) | AIDA64
> 
> 
> The official download location of AIDA64 Extreme (beta) 6.60.5944 (ZIP)
> 
> 
> 
> www.aida64.com


Dont know aida keep pop up that but already turn off hyper v and memory something
quick demo rift breaker
Super res: performance
Variable shading: yea


----------



## SuperMumrik

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Dont know aida keep pop up that but already turn off hyper v and memory something


ASRock timing config, Cpu and ring speed?
For [email protected]7k this seems off


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

SuperMumrik said:


> ASRock timing config, Cpu and ring speed?
> For [email protected] this seems off


5.3/45. My window always has higher latency. Even 6400c28 1t on apex and it had 54-55ns latency.


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Golden sticks paired with gold cpu. Let me know your Vddq and VddqTx when you have a chance. Thanks!


Vdd 1.57 load
Vddq 1.45 load
Tx auto


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> Vdd 1.57 load
> Vddq 1.45 load
> Tx auto


Thanks a lot! Can you confirm that Tx on auto is also 1.57?


----------



## nmkr

tested an upcoming corsair kit against 7000c32 and 7200c32


----------



## affxct

Does anyone here know anything about the XPG Caster 6400C40 1.4V kit? Curious as to whether this is one of the newer Samsung bins.


----------



## ChaosAD

Do you guys think the new GSkill 6600c34 is a better bin than the 6400c32 one?


----------



## Nizzen

ChaosAD said:


> Do you guys think the new GSkill 6600c34 is a better bin than the 6400c32 one?


It better be, but the lottery is real. Just look at ddr4. Some 3200c14 overclock better than some 4600 kits...

G.skill Hynix is strong this round, so it can't be very bad. Mainboards tend to be the real bottleneck in many cases.


----------



## asdkj1740

new msi special bios for unify i and pro a and unify x





腾讯微云







share.weiyun.com


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Thanks a lot! Can you confirm that Tx on auto is also 1.57?


TX @ auto is same as VDD. 1.57v


----------



## Afferin

asdkj1740 said:


> new msi special bios for unify i and pro a and unify x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com


How do I download this without a WeChat/QQ account?

Edit: I'm trying to download the Unify-X BIOS. Please share!


----------



## asdkj1740

Afferin said:


> How do I download this without a WeChat/QQ account?
> 
> Edit: I'm trying to download the Unify-X BIOS. Please share!


at your own risk.


----------



## asdkj1740

3 years....

















Colorful announces CVN Guardian DDR5 memory, 16GB DDR5-6000 for 279 USD - VideoCardz.com


COLORFUL Launches CVN Guardian DDR5 Memory April 29th, 2022 Shenzhen, China – Colorful Technology Company Limited, a professional manufacturer of graphics cards, motherboards, all-in-one gaming and multimedia solutions, and high-performance storage, launches the CVN Guardian DDR5 memory for the...




videocardz.com







you guys want some expesnive samsung kit with lifetime errors warranty or no errors but only three years warranty???


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> 3 years....
> View attachment 2558861
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colorful announces CVN Guardian DDR5 memory, 16GB DDR5-6000 for 279 USD - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> COLORFUL Launches CVN Guardian DDR5 Memory April 29th, 2022 Shenzhen, China – Colorful Technology Company Limited, a professional manufacturer of graphics cards, motherboards, all-in-one gaming and multimedia solutions, and high-performance storage, launches the CVN Guardian DDR5 memory for the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you guys want some expesnive samsung kit with lifetime errors warranty or no errors but only three years warranty???


3 years, and 6000mhz ddr5 is ancient


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> 3 years, and 6000mhz ddr5 is ancient


it is said that the current 10g world records set by gigabyte and msi are both achieved with new hynix dies.

intel eventually takes action to the current d5 disaster of instability.


----------



## Afferin

asdkj1740 said:


> at your own risk.


 Well, they seem to have made the v/f curve more functional now! But my 12900k defaulted to 1.6v on stock on this BIOS. Spoopy.


----------



## Gadfly

So translating Asus labels;

asus MC = VDD2
Asus IVR = VDD TX

VDD2 is an external voltage, and VDD TX is a CPU internal Voltage?


----------



## asdkj1740

Gadfly said:


> So translating Asus labels;
> 
> asus MC = VDD2
> Asus IVR = VDD TX
> 
> VDD2 is an external voltage, and VDD TX is a CPU internal Voltage?


yes


----------



## Gadfly

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Vsa set 1.3v and it still shows 1.8v in hwinfo. So I dont think those value means anything. And its not only on my system. Others see the same. Lumni said its just a bug.


My Dark KP shows the correct VSA in the latest beta version of hwinfo and in Intel XTU.

Can you post some screen shots of your stable profiles along with your voltages? For me, running 7000C30 2T vsa seems to run best at 1030 - 1050mv. This board behaves entirely differently than my Apex. VDD2 is behavior is very strange; and will not even post unless it is over 1.35v, "Auto" appears to set it at 1.45v. and it is VERY touchy. even small changes lead to training failures. I have not got 7000 to run stable yet; but I am working on it. 

Other good news, is that VDD/VDDQ appears to scale all the way north of 1.6v, and I required 20mv less on my CPU to run 5.5/4.3 vs my apex.

Thus far I am loving the board, but It definitely is completely different from all the ROG boards I have been running for the past 15+ years and is taking some getting used to.


----------



## 7empe

Gadfly said:


> My Dark KP shows the correct VSA in the latest beta version of hwinfo and in Intel XTU.
> 
> Can you post some screen shots of your stable profiles along with your voltages? For me, running 7000C30 2T vsa seems to run best at 1030 - 1050mv. This board behaves entirely differently than my Apex. VDD2 is behavior is very strange; and will not even post unless it is over 1.35v, "Auto" appears to set it at 1.45v. and it is VERY touchy. even small changes lead to training failures. I have not got 7000 to run stable yet; but I am working on it.
> 
> Other good news, is that VDD/VDDQ appears to scale all the way north of 1.6v, and I required 20mv less on my CPU to run 5.5/4.3 vs my apex.
> 
> Thus far I am loving the board, but It definitely is completely different from all the ROG boards I have been running for the past 15+ years and is taking some getting used to.


Lucky those who see these boards in stock. Blessed those who can order them.


----------



## asdkj1740

for ram active cooling, is one single 120mm fan at 2000rpm better than two 60/80mm fans at 3000rpm?


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> for ram active cooling, is one single 120mm fan at 2000rpm better than two 60/80mm fans at 3000rpm?


Try and repport back 
I used 120mm before watercooling. I had 120mm fans laying around, that's why I used one LOL
I did the job. Samsung DDR5 went from 67c to 45-47c with active fan cooling. Samsung is around 10c hotter than Hynix it looks like.
Some use 2x 50mm fans over the dimms too. Works great! Most important is airflow direct on the dimms.


----------



## db000

Nizzen said:


> Try and repport back
> I used 120mm before watercooling. I had 120mm fans laying around, that's why I used one LOL
> I did the job. Samsung DDR5 went from 67c to 45-47c with active fan cooling. Samsung is around 10c hotter than Hynix it looks like.
> Some use 2x 50mm fans over the dimms too. Works great! Most important is airflow direct on the dimms.


I did the exact same thing. +1, all of the above.


----------



## Gadfly

db000 said:


> I did the exact same thing. +1, all of the above.


Same here. 120mm fan on sitting on the memory, works ok. Good up to 1.50to 1.52v; depending on how tight the timings are.

It absolutely gets a little warm though. Hynix @ 6600C28/C30 1T will get a little unstable at 38’C and requires an addition 30mv to run stable at 40’C. 7000C30 2T requires more voltage than I can run stable on air.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Gadfly said:


> My Dark KP shows the correct VSA in the latest beta version of hwinfo and in Intel XTU.
> 
> Can you post some screen shots of your stable profiles along with your voltages? For me, running 7000C30 2T vsa seems to run best at 1030 - 1050mv. This board behaves entirely differently than my Apex. VDD2 is behavior is very strange; and will not even post unless it is over 1.35v, "Auto" appears to set it at 1.45v. and it is VERY touchy. even small changes lead to training failures. I have not got 7000 to run stable yet; but I am working on it.
> 
> Other good news, is that VDD/VDDQ appears to scale all the way north of 1.6v, and I required 20mv less on my CPU to run 5.5/4.3 vs my apex.
> 
> Thus far I am loving the board, but It definitely is completely different from all the ROG boards I have been running for the past 15+ years and is taking some getting used to.





Gadfly said:


> My Dark KP shows the correct VSA in the latest beta version of hwinfo and in Intel XTU.
> 
> Can you post some screen shots of your stable profiles along with your voltages? For me, running 7000C30 2T vsa seems to run best at 1030 - 1050mv. This board behaves entirely differently than my Apex. VDD2 is behavior is very strange; and will not even post unless it is over 1.35v, "Auto" appears to set it at 1.45v. and it is VERY touchy. even small changes lead to training failures. I have not got 7000 to run stable yet; but I am working on it.
> 
> Other good news, is that VDD/VDDQ appears to scale all the way north of 1.6v, and I required 20mv less on my CPU to run 5.5/4.3 vs my apex.
> 
> Thus far I am loving the board, but It definitely is completely different from all the ROG boards I have been running for the past 15+ years and is taking some getting used to.


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> View attachment 2559030


Please use MSI Dragonball to see what cmd stretch the KP uses.






MSI+Dragon+Ball1.0.0.08.zip







drive.google.com


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

jomama22 said:


> Please use MSI Dragonball to see what cmd stretch the KP uses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI+Dragon+Ball1.0.0.08.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


double click the file and nothing opens.


----------



## Nizzen

Pushing my poor Dell 4800c40 Hynix to the limit 

Latency is not good due to normal Win 11 and "stock" cpu.


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> double click the file and nothing opens.


It's a zip file...you need to unzip/extract it...right click on it and click extract, do to the newly created folded and then double click the .exe...

I just checked it on my phone:


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

jomama22 said:


> It's a zip file...you need to unzip/extract it...right click on it and click extract, do to the newly created folded and then double click the .exe...
> 
> I just checked it on my phone:
> View attachment 2559067


I know what to do man. Already extract and run the .exe file but nothing opens.


----------



## Gadfly

Thanh Nguyen said:


> double click the file and nothing opens.


what voltages are you running for cpu vddq, SA etc?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Gadfly said:


> what voltages are you running for cpu vddq, SA etc?


Sa auto, vddq is 1.35v. Vccin is 1.9v. Vdim is 1.58v, vpp is 1.93v.


----------



## Alberto_It

Hello everyone! I haven't entered this forum for a few months. I own an Asus z690 Apex and a 12900k with SP99. As bios version I have *1101* release. Last Friday I ordered the following DDR5 memory *G.Skill Trident F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS* (SK hynix Chips)

They are compatible with Z690 Apex?

Currently I have the kit G.Skill Trident F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK and with XMP1 profile they works smooth like butter

Thanks in advance for your help


----------



## db000

Alberto_It said:


> Hello everyone! I haven't entered this forum for a few months. I own an Asus z690 Apex and a 12900k with SP99. As bios version I have *1101* release. Last Friday I ordered the following DDR5 memory *G.Skill Trident F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS* (SK hynix Chips)
> 
> They are compatible with Z690 Apex?
> 
> Currently I have the kit G.Skill Trident F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK and with XMP1 profile they works smooth like butter
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help


They're, many of us are using it currently. Good binn.


----------



## Alberto_It

db000 said:


> They're, many of us are using it currently. Good binn.


Thanks very much 👍


----------



## Alberto_It

@db000 What version of bios do you use?


----------



## Gadfly

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Sa auto, vddq is 1.35v. Vccin is 1.9v. Vdim is 1.58v, vpp is 1.93v.


oh wow….

I have not tried setting vddq that low, I have been keeping it on auto which matches VDD.

So I was running 7000C32 2T (built in Kingpin daily profile) and I can’t get it stable, here are the voltages I am running currently:

SA: auto or about 1050-1070mv static
Mem VDD: 1.5
Mem VDDQ: 1.5 (auto)
CPU VDDQ: 1.35v (aka, vddq tx)
CPU VDD2 : Auto (matches VDD).
VCCIN: 1.90v
VPP: Auto

I will try adjusting VPP, and will try lowering Mem VDDQ.


----------



## db000

Alberto_It said:


> @db000 What version of bios do you use?


1304








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


My first post on this forum. I have been reading through these threads a lot. I have a quick noob question. I have G.Skill DDR5 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4V kit. Like many of you. I am running 11/2021 APEX and 12900K. I am now running @ 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-96 1.435V. I am not able to get 6400 MT/s...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Arni90

asdkj1740 said:


> at your own risk.


For those who wonder if this improves upon A24 for the Unify-X, it doesn't


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Try and repport back
> I used 120mm before watercooling. I had 120mm fans laying around, that's why I used one LOL
> I did the job. Samsung DDR5 went from 67c to 45-47c with active fan cooling. Samsung is around 10c hotter than Hynix it looks like.
> Some use 2x 50mm fans over the dimms too. Works great! Most important is airflow direct on the dimms.


thinking of how to mount a 120mm fan on top of the sticks inside a case. i was using zip ties but for much small fans.
i need some extra cooling headroom and i have a12x25 so noise is not a concern to me but i just wonder how much it would gain when using 120mm fan instead, ~2c or 5c
it would not worth the trouble for 2c improvement only, i am too lazy to get down to the table and mess around with my stupid large heavy case.


----------



## Alberto_It

db000 said:


> 1304
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> My first post on this forum. I have been reading through these threads a lot. I have a quick noob question. I have G.Skill DDR5 6400 32-39-39-102 1.4V kit. Like many of you. I am running 11/2021 APEX and 12900K. I am now running @ 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-96 1.435V. I am not able to get 6400 MT/s...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks for the answer, from what I understand this memory kit does not work properly with the normal XMP1 profile and needs to increase some values. Did I understand correctly? 
Thanks


----------



## Alberto_It

@7empe Hello, I sent you a private message, if you want to help me take a look. 

Thank you


----------



## Spit051261

Nizzen said:


> Show us ♡


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> It's a zip file...you need to unzip/extract it...right click on it and click extract, do to the newly created folded and then double click the .exe...
> 
> I just checked it on my phone:


does this work on your PC because It doesn't work on mine either.


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> does this work on your PC because It doesn't work on mine either.


Yeah, have no issues. Maybe something to do with the dark? I'll try to find another copy. Believe there is one in the Asus extreme tvb overclocking guide thread


----------



## Avarath

Nizzen said:


> For me in BF 2042, ctd is unstable cpu. Dx error is unstable memory.
> 
> Haven't played the new patch yet, but disable e-cores and running 50 cache and 5.5ghz all core, gives more fps for me. In this game.


Thanks for this input.. On my ASUS Prime Z690-P WiFi with TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 6200MHz  I was running into random DX errors playing Apex. I manually set from XMP 6200 to 6000 and the errors seem to have disappeared. Being a new build I wasn't sure if it was memory, CPU or GPU related.


----------



## dante`afk

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cpu got swapped to a ****ty one. Thanks to supercool.


you killed it with water?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

dante`afk said:


> you killed it with water?


What u mean?


----------



## sblantipodi

Is there someone who tried this suggestion?





Does it really help with 4 sticks?

Does changing "sync all pmic" to "sync per pmic" help?


----------



## Talon2016

Looks like G.Skill released 6600Mhz stuff at CL34. 









G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6600 (PC5 52800) Desktop Memory Model F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6600 (PC5 52800) Desktop Memory Model F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> Looks like G.Skill released 6600Mhz stuff at CL34.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6600 (PC5 52800) Desktop Memory Model F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6600 (PC5 52800) Desktop Memory Model F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Wonder if this is a new generation IC?
Thermaltake has sendt out 7000mhz ES samples


----------



## SoldierRBT

Nizzen said:


> Wonder if this is a new generation IC?
> Thermaltake has sendt out 7000mhz ES samples


Wonder what's the PCB layer on these (probably 10). Seems like G.Skill didn't release non-RGB kits for 6600C34.


----------



## z390e

OGS scorched through Stage 1 of the CORSAIR DDR5 invitational


Read the full article @ HWBOT




hwbot.org





Looks like Corsair flexing right now


----------



## Nizzen

z390e said:


> OGS scorched through Stage 1 of the CORSAIR DDR5 invitational
> 
> 
> Read the full article @ HWBOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Corsair flexing right now


 Looks like Apex won


----------



## MrFox

Thanh Nguyen said:


> double click the file and nothing opens.





Gadfly said:


> does this work on your PC because It doesn't work on mine either.


MSI Dragon Ball is not compatible with EVGA motherboards. I haven't tried it on Z690, but it hasn't worked on Z490 or Z590 Dark. Only EVGA Eleet seems to work correctly for in-Windows tuning. I have found the same to be true with some other things and it think it is how the EC is implemented.


----------



## Gadfly

MrFox said:


> MSI Dragon Ball is not compatible with EVGA motherboards. I haven't tried it on Z690, but it hasn't worked on Z490 or Z590 Dark. Only EVGA Eleet seems to work correctly for in-Windows tuning. I have found the same to be true with some other things and it think it is how the EC is implemented.


makes sense.

what I have found so far is that only Eleet, and XTU work for clocks and basic voltages (XTU SA Voltage works)

pretty much all the real time memory apps work, XTU, asroock, memtweakit, etc

I like the Z690 dark KP, especially for memory overclocking, but I miss the Asus ROG CPU overclocking features. I was able to run 5.7 2 core, 5.5/4.3 all core on the Apex. On the DKP Best I can do is 5.5 2 core 5.4/4.3 all core. The DKP requires more voltage for the same clocks (on the same CPU) to pass stability testing.

So I lost a few 100mhz of clock speed, but gained the ability to run 7000C30 1T on the memory without overvolting the hell out of VDDQ TX.


----------



## z390e

Gadfly said:


> I like the Z690 dark KP, especially for memory overclocking, but I miss the Asus ROG CPU overclocking features. I was able to run 5.7 2 core, 5.5/4.3 all core on the Apex. On the DKP Best I can do is 5.5 2 core 5.4/4.3 all core. The DKP requires more voltage for the same clocks (on the same CPU) to pass stability testing.
> 
> So I lost a few 100mhz of clock speed, but gained the ability to run 7000C30 1T on the memory without overvolting the hell out of VDDQ TX.


That is interesting information regarding the CPU speeds. I wonder why that would be. Maybe Asus BIOS settings being more tested/familiar?


----------



## Gadfly

z390e said:


> That is interesting information regarding the CPU speeds. I wonder why that would be. Maybe Asus BIOS settings being more tested/familiar?


the EVGA bios is just very basic in terms of CPU clocking. For example, the EVGA bios does not show you the stock V/F curve, or have the ability to add to the boost bins, or allow you to edit the V/F curve point beyond the last point.

The power options are also limited, basically, on the EVGA you have “vdroop” control, and VRM switching freq, that’s it.

Not really sure what it could be, but it is definitely there to the tune of 30mv. It isn’t temps either. I am seeing same core temps at the same core voltage; just need more voltage.


----------



## MrFox

Gadfly said:


> the EVGA bios is just very basic in terms of CPU clocking. For example, the EVGA bios does not show you the stock V/F curve, or have the ability to add to the boost bins, or allow you to edit the V/F curve point beyond the last point.
> 
> The power options are also limited, basically, on the EVGA you have “vdroop” control, and VRM switching freq, that’s it.
> 
> Not really sure what it could be, but it is definitely there to the tune of 30mv. It isn’t temps either. I am seeing same core temps at the same core voltage; just need more voltage.


I am kind of late to the party here and might have missed something in the thread. Are you having some problems with yours?

EVGA Dark boards are hands-down my favorite and the best for extreme overclocking. Many of the missing settings don't matter if you are shooting for that and that is why guys like Vince and Luumi prefer them as well. If you are trying to tune for things like lower power consumption it might matter in that scenario. If you unlock the hidden menus in the BIOS almost everything is already maxed out, so things like power limits and turbo time windows are out of sight and out of mind and you don't have to find them to max them out because they are already perma-maxed. 

The only reason I am running the Unify-X is there is no way in hell I am paying $829+ for a Z690 Dark Kingpin mobo. That's just way too much for my budget. That said, I have owned X299 Dark, Z490 Dark (still have it) and Z590 Dark and nothing holds a candle to them for me. Had I not ditched efforts due to the frustrations associated with owning a Ryzen 5950X I would most likely be running an X570 Dark. If I stick on 12th Gen long enough, I might try to find a good deal for a used Z690 Dark.

I chose the Unify-X because it is a super good alternative to a Dark mobo at a more intelligent price, and I have had nothing but nightmares with ASUS mobo failures, including memory slot failures, one that caught on fire and the most recent failure killed a really sweet SP100 10900K when it died. Plus, ASUS is horrible to deal with on warranty issues and EVGA treats customers like kings.

Here are the daily driver settings I am running on the Unify-X.


----------



## Gadfly

MrFox said:


> I am kind of late to the party here and might have missed something in the thread. Are you having some problems with yours?
> 
> EVGA Dark boards are hands-down my favorite and the best for extreme overclocking. Many of the missing settings don't matter if you are shooting for that and that is why guys like Vince and Luumi prefer them as well. If you are trying to tune for things like lower power consumption it might matter in that scenario. If you unlock the hidden menus in the BIOS almost everything is already maxed out, so things like power limits and turbo time windows are out of sight and out of mind and you don't have to find them to max them out because they are already perma-maxed.
> 
> The only reason I am running the Unify-X is there is no way in hell I am paying $829+ for a Z690 Dark Kingpin mobo. That's just way too much for my budget. That said, I have owned X299 Dark, Z490 Dark (still have it) and Z590 Dark and nothing holds a candle to them for me. Had I not ditched efforts due to the frustrations associated with owning a Ryzen 5950X I would most likely be running an X570 Dark. If I stick on 12th Gen long enough, I might try to find a good deal for a used Z690 Dark.
> 
> I chose the Unify-X because it is a super good alternative to a Dark mobo at a more intelligent price, and I have had nothing but nightmares with ASUS mobo failures, including memory slot failures, one that caught on fire and the most recent failure killed a really sweet SP100 10900K when it died. Plus, ASUS is horrible to deal with on warranty issues and EVGA treats customers like kings.
> 
> Here are the daily driver settings I am running on the Unify-X.
> 
> View attachment 2559746


No problems, it is a great board, memory OC is amazing, it just requires more voltage for the same clocks as the Apex, and is missing features that allow the Apex to run higher boost clocks.

as I mentioned, the Apex would run 5.7 2 cores, 5.5/4.3 without issue, the Z690 Dark KP requires at least 30mv in additional voltage for the same clocks, so it will only do 5.5 two cores and 5.4/4.3, and that is still at higher core volts than the Apex required at the higher clocks. 

it might be a great XOC board, but on ambient water, it doesn’t work as well as the Apex.


----------



## marti69

7empe said:


> Another round in BF2042 - no issues so far since the last bios tweak...
> 
> I've been measuring FPS using the CapFrameX (average of the 20 minutes) of the same BF2042 map (conquest mode). 3440x1440, everything on High with HBAOFULL. RT disabled.
> 
> 8C+8c: p-cores 52x-54x (octvb) while playing / e-cores 42x / cache 43x
> 8C: p-cores 52x-54x (octvb) while playing / cache 49x
> 
> View attachment 2558635
> 
> 
> By the way, this is my 6666c30 profile I am using right now for testing. If the PCIe tweak really solves the issue, then I will move back to 6800c30 and try the same again.
> 
> vdd: 1.55V
> vddq/tx: 1.50V
> mc: 1.26V
> sa: 1.20V
> 
> View attachment 2558633


nice results,whats the pcie tweak youe talking about?


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> makes sense.
> 
> what I have found so far is that only Eleet, and XTU work for clocks and basic voltages (XTU SA Voltage works)
> 
> pretty much all the real time memory apps work, XTU, asroock, memtweakit, etc
> 
> I like the Z690 dark KP, especially for memory overclocking, but I miss the Asus ROG CPU overclocking features. I was able to run 5.7 2 core, 5.5/4.3 all core on the Apex. On the DKP Best I can do is 5.5 2 core 5.4/4.3 all core. The DKP requires more voltage for the same clocks (on the same CPU) to pass stability testing.
> 
> So I lost a few 100mhz of clock speed, but gained the ability to run 7000C30 1T on the memory without overvolting the hell out of VDDQ TX.


I imagine it's more to do with the higher mem clock. Many people (myself included) noticed needing to increase vcore with higher mem settings.

Also, think @Mylittlepwny2 suggested using an LLC of 25% as opposed to 75%, which netted him better stability and lower voltage. Post is in the bins thread I believe.

Also, do you mind posting Aida results with 7000 30 1T and timings?


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> I imagine it's more to do with the higher mem clock. Many people (myself included) noticed needing to increase vcore with higher mem settings.
> 
> Also, do you mind posting Aida results with 7000 30 1T and timings?


I thought of that as well, but I had the memory at defaults for the CPU binning test I use.

Here is the breakdown:

Apex:

5.5/4.3 1.261v (1.32 set in bios, llc7) vcore under load.

Dark Kingpin:

5.4/4.3 1.3v vcore under load, (-25% droop)
5.5/4.3 won’t pass even at 1.385v under load.

Same test, same CPU, same cooling, same core temps, same memory running at the same speeds.

The Dark kingpin just requires a lot more cpu core voltage to be stable. I am sure it is an awesome board for running cold; but for a daily use ambient board, not so much. It just does not overclock the CPU anywhere near as well as the Z690 Apex.

Which is fine. It runs memory well, and is a really well made board; That said when Asus said they couldn’t replace my Apex because they were not making them anymore, I should have just purchased an Unfi-X. The Dark Kingpin isn’t worth the money unless you plan on using it exclusively for LN2.

EDIT: 7000C30 1T timings and AIDA @jomama22

Mem VDD/VDDQ: 1.53v
CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX / IVR on Asus): 1.35v
VDD2 (MC on Asus): Auto (matches Mem VDD, so 1.53v)
SA: Auto (0.943v)


----------



## sugi0lover

Gadfly said:


> I thought of that as well, but I had the memory at defaults for the CPU binning test I use.
> 
> Here is the breakdown:
> 
> Apex:
> 
> 5.5/4.3 1.261v (1.32 set in bios, llc7) vcore under load.
> 
> Dark Kingpin:
> 
> 5.4/4.3 1.3v vcore under load, (-25% droop)
> 5.5/4.3 won’t pass even at 1.385v under load.
> 
> Same test, same CPU, same cooling, same core temps, same memory running at the same speeds.
> 
> The Dark kingpin just requires a lot more cpu core voltage to be stable. I am sure it is an awesome board for running cold; but for a daily use ambient board, not so much. It just does not overclock the CPU anywhere near as well as the Z690 Apex.
> 
> Which is fine. It runs memory well, and is a really well made board; That said when Asus said they couldn’t replace my Apex because they were not making them anymore, I should have just purchased an Unfi-X. The Dark Kingpin isn’t worth the money unless you plan on using it exclusively for LN2.
> 
> EDIT: 7000C30 1T timings and AIDA @jomama22
> 
> Mem VDD/VDDQ: 1.53v
> CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX / IVR on Asus): 1.35v
> VDD2 (MC on Asus): Auto (matches Mem VDD, so 1.53v)
> SA: Auto (0.943v)
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559795


Wow, you have 6600 cl34 ram already? Can I ask where we can buy the kit? Thanks in advance!


----------



## SuperCloud

Hi all,
I am interested in buying a DDR5 memory kit and z690 motherboard that supports it.
Can you recommend DDR5 kit to buy (good quality and able to OC + tighten timing) and motherboard?

I currently have 12600k and using it with samsung B die DDR4 at 4000 CL15 gear 1 2T with all timings tight. 
Will the DDR5 kit (whichever you recommend) perform better than this?

I use it for gaming, general purpose PC use, and software development, and 1 virtual machine only.


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> Wow, you have 6600 cl34 ram already? Can I ask where we can buy the kit? Thanks in advance!


Newegg


----------



## z390e

Gadfly said:


> EDIT: 7000C30 1T timings and AIDA @jomama22
> 
> Mem VDD/VDDQ: 1.53v
> CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX / IVR on Asus): 1.35v
> VDD2 (MC on Asus): Auto (matches Mem VDD, so 1.53v)
> SA: Auto (0.943v)
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559795


Great memory bench, hope I can get near that with mine. 

Damn, wish I had bought the 6600's now, I didn't see them on the QVL for the Dark (oddly just for the Classified) so I bought the 6400. What a senior moment on my part. Facepalm.


----------



## Gadfly

SuperCloud said:


> Hi all,
> I am interested in buying a DDR5 memory kit and z690 motherboard that supports it.
> Can you recommend DDR5 kit to buy (good quality and able to OC + tighten timing) and motherboard?
> 
> I currently have 12600k and using it with samsung B die DDR4 at 4000 CL15 gear 1 2T with all timings tight.
> Will the DDR5 kit (whichever you recommend) perform better than this?
> 
> I use it for gaming, general purpose PC use, and software development, and 1 virtual machine only.


for the Memory you want a kit with Hynix IC’s, Samsung ddr 5 kinda sucks.

the G skill 6400C32 or the 6600C34 kits are both great kits and should be able to run 6400-7000 1T.

As for the board, you really want a board with two memory slots, so MSI Unfi-X or maybe the Gigabyte Tachyon. The Asus ROG Apex had some issues and last I heard it was discontinued. EVGA makes the Dark Kingpin, but you will be waiting a long time before you can order one, and even longer before you receive one.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Evga Dark z690 kingpin is readily available at their site and ebay store.


----------



## Gadfly

z390e said:


> Great memory bench, hope I can get near that with mine.
> 
> Damn, wish I had bought the 6600's now, I didn't see them on the QVL for the Dark (oddly just for the Classified) so I bought the 6400. What a senior moment on my part. Facepalm.


I have senior moments as well these days. I had the 6400 kit but my dumb ass killed a stick taking the stock heat spreaders off…..

The bench above is on air (big ass fan blowing on the sticks), with stock heat spreaders, and is not fully stable. It will pass benchmarks etc but gets unstable at about 40’C; then it starts to kick out errors on TM5. It did run to 1500% on HCI memtest, as max temp was only 38.5’C. 

seems like a sold kit, but not sure it is much better than the 6400C32 kit tbh.


----------



## Gadfly

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Evga Dark z690 kingpin is readily available at their site and ebay store.


Oh wow, that is new


----------



## SuperCloud

Gadfly said:


> for the Memory you want a kit with Hynix IC’s, Samsung ddr 5 kinda sucks.
> 
> the G skill 6400C32 or the 6600C34 kits are both great kits and should be able to run 6400-7000 1T.
> 
> As for the board, you really want a board with two memory slots, so MSI Unfi-X or maybe the Gigabyte Tachyon. The Asus ROG Apex had some issues and last I heard it was discontinued. EVGA makes the Dark Kingpin, but you will be waiting a long time before you can order one, and even longer before you receive one.


Is there a part number or model number for the 6400 C32, or 6600 C34? Can my processor, 12600k, run these speeds for DDR5?

Would I be able to hit 7000 1T on the Unify-X and my cpu? If I can't find 6400 C32 and 6600 C34, what is the next best kit that I can OC to 6400 or 6600 that are Hynix IC.

Thank you!


----------



## SuperCloud

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Evga Dark z690 kingpin is readily available at their site and ebay store.


Is that better than MSI z690 Unify-X?


----------



## Nizzen

SuperCloud said:


> Is there a part number or model number for the 6400 C32, or 6600 C34? Can my processor, 12600k, run these speeds for DDR5?
> 
> Would I be able to hit 7000 1T on the Unify-X and my cpu? If I can't find 6400 C32 and 6600 C34, what is the next best kit that I can OC to 6400 or 6600 that are Hynix IC.
> 
> Thank you!


Cheapest is Fury beast 6000 Hynix 
Under half price of g.skill 6400c32 here in Norway!

Ps: Stay away from Samsung based ddr5. 10c hotter than Hynix and dont like every motherboard that good.


----------



## chibi

Hi there, I'm planning a z690 ITX build with ASUS Strix z690-I with the GSKILL DDR5 6000 C30 kit. Will these be compatible and reach the rated ram speed? CPU 12900k, thanks!

Ram - F5-6000J3040F16GX2-RS5K





Are you a human?







www.newegg.ca





Mobo - STRIX Z690-I GAMING WIFI





Are you a human?







www.newegg.ca


----------



## Gadfly

SuperCloud said:


> Is that better than MSI z690 Unify-X?


yes


----------



## Gadfly

chibi said:


> Hi there, I'm planning a z690 ITX build with ASUS Strix z690-I with the GSKILL DDR5 6000 C30 kit. Will these be compatible and reach the rated ram speed? CPU 12900k, thanks!
> 
> Ram - F5-6000J3040F16GX2-RS5K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mobo - STRIX Z690-I GAMING WIFI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


Don’t buy that Ram, it is Samsung


----------



## centvalny

Testing hynix 5800 28-34-34-89 @ 1.35v


----------



## inedenimadam

asdkj1740 said:


> new msi special bios for unify i and pro a and unify x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 腾讯微云
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com


thank you hugely for this. I can confirm renesas PMIC unlock and voltage control above 1.435 is working, VDD2 voltage also isn't giving me no post over 1.3 anymore, and overclocking is greatly improved. I have not had a chance to deep dive into it, but my previous DRAM overclock is at least 1 hr TM5 stable, and hopefully with working PMIC unlock I can go higher. 
This is with the Unify-X.


----------



## warbucks

inedenimadam said:


> thank you hugely for this. I can confirm renesas PMIC unlock and voltage control above 1.435 is working, VDD2 voltage also isn't giving me no post over 1.3 anymore, and overclocking is greatly improved. I have not had a chance to deep dive into it, but my previous DRAM overclock is at least 1 hr TM5 stable, and hopefully with working PMIC unlock I can go higher.
> This is with the Unify-X.


Were you able to download the Unify-X bios from the link? If so, could you share it. I can't seem to get the download to work without registering and it's in chinese.


----------



## SuperCloud

Gadfly said:


> yes


May I ask how so? It supports maximum OC of 6600mhz, but Unify-X support 6800mhz OC


----------



## SuperCloud

Nizzen said:


> Cheapest is Fury beast 6000 Hynix
> Under half price of g.skill 6400c32 here in Norway!
> 
> Ps: Stay away from Samsung based ddr5. 10c hotter than Hynix and dont like every motherboard that good.


Do you have the specific model number for the Fury beast? 

Can I overclock the Fury beast 6000 to 6600 or 6800 on Unify-X?
What is the lowest timings I can set that kit to at high frequency?


----------



## chibi

Gadfly said:


> Don’t buy that Ram, it is Samsung


I'm not up to date with DDR5 stuff. Samsung is not the recommended this gen? Is there another set of low profile ram you suggest instead? Thank you!


----------



## SuperCloud

Does anyone have a list of memory kits - their model numbers for Sk-Hynix modules?

Is this Sk Hynix, Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 - KF560C40BBK2-32?
How far can I OC this kit and at what lowest primary timings on Unify-X mobo?


----------



## Nizzen

SuperCloud said:


> Does anyone have a list of memory kits - their model numbers for Sk-Hynix modules?
> 
> Is this Sk Hynix, Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 - KF560C40BBK2-32?
> How far can I OC this kit and at what lowest primary timings on Unify-X mobo?


Depends on luck, skill and cooling. 6600+ c30 should be easy on Unify X.


----------



## newls1

warbucks said:


> Were you able to download the Unify-X bios from the link? If so, could you share it. I can't seem to get the download to work without registering and it's in chinese.


this?


----------



## SuperCloud

Does anyone know if the following kit, XPG Caster RGB DDR5 6400MHz CL40-40-40 AX5U6400C4016G-DCCARGY, is Sk Hynix?


----------



## SuperCloud

Nizzen said:


> Depends on luck, skill and cooling. 6600+ c30 should be easy on Unify X.


Oh okay. So, Unify-X is good motherboard to buy then? evga z690 is E-TAX. I don't think it can fit in my case, and it is $1.1K where I live.

When you say luck, you mean getting Sk Hynix memory in the Fury Beast?


----------



## Afferin

SuperCloud said:


> Does anyone know if the following kit, XPG Caster RGB DDR5 6400MHz CL40-40-40 AX5U6400C4016G-DCCARGY, is Sk Hynix?


I asked this same question and someone told me their kit was Hynix, then another person told me theirs was Samsung. So please tell me if you find out!


----------



## Gadfly

Afferin said:


> I asked this same question and someone told me their kit was Hynix, then another person told me theirs was Samsung. So please tell me if you find out!


because it is both. Some are Hynix, some are Samsung. I bought one of those kits and it is Samsung.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Evga dark kp is a waste of money for daily usage.( I paid $1500 on ebay to get it) Stick with apex or unify x coz u cant see the difference with higher mem oc.(6400c28 vs 7000c32) (5.3ghz vs 5.5ghz). Put money on direct die block and ram block and you can see the difference.


----------



## Nizzen

Gadfly said:


> because it is both. Some are Hynix, some are Samsung. I bought one of those kits and it is Samsung.


Kingston 6000 use samsung? I testet 3x beast 6k and everyone was Hynix.
Slower kits has micron. Atleast many of kingston "generic"
A few early 4800c40 has hynix too. My friend bought one from me. No overvoltage pmic, but they are doing 6200mhz c28 just fine on air.


----------



## inedenimadam

inedenimadam said:


> thank you hugely for this. I can confirm renesas PMIC unlock and voltage control above 1.435 is working, VDD2 voltage also isn't giving me no post over 1.3 anymore, and overclocking is greatly improved. I have not had a chance to deep dive into it, but my previous DRAM overclock is at least 1 hr TM5 stable, and hopefully with working PMIC unlock I can go higher.
> This is with the Unify-X.


a download link was posted a couple posts after. That is where I got it.
_Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability Thread | Page 227 | Overclock.net


----------



## asdkj1740

SuperCloud said:


> Does anyone have a list of memory kits - their model numbers for Sk-Hynix modules?
> 
> Is this Sk Hynix, Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 - KF560C40BBK2-32?
> How far can I OC this kit and at what lowest primary timings on Unify-X mobo?


6000 fury has been using hynix.
30-38-38 or 32-39-39, something like that.


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> Kingston 6000 use samsung? I testet 3x beast 6k and everyone was Hynix.
> Slower kits has micron. Atleast many of kingston "generic"
> A few early 4800c40 has hynix too. My friend bought one from me. No overvoltage pmic, but they are doing 6200mhz c28 just fine on air.


No, the XPG kits


----------



## SuperCloud

Gadfly said:


> because it is both. Some are Hynix, some are Samsung. I bought one of those kits and it is Samsung.


If the XPG 6400 kit is Sk hynix, then I can OC up to 7000 at tight timings or tighten 6400 on a unify-x motherboard?


----------



## Gadfly

SuperCloud said:


> If the XPG 6400 kit is Sk hynix, then I can OC up to 7000 at tight timings or tighten 6400 on a unify-x motherboard?


Maybe? There are so many "Lottery" elements here; You have to get some decent RAM, you have to have a good board, you have to have a good IMC in your CPU, etc. 

If running fast and tight memory (1T) is important to you then I would say your best bet to "win the lottery" is to buy a g.skill 6600C34 memory kit and a EVGA Z690 Dark Kingpin motherboard. 

If you are good running your memory at 2T, then pick up a unify-X and the XPG 6400 / G.skill 6400 kit. You should be able to run at least 6600C30 / 6800C32 at 2T.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Best tool presently to delid the 12th Gen KS?


----------



## Nizzen

MarkDeMark said:


> Best tool presently to delid the 12th Gen KS?


Supercool computer maybe 

Delid DDR5 with force and heat


----------



## warbucks

MarkDeMark said:


> Best tool presently to delid the 12th Gen KS?


Rockitcool makes a 12th gen delid/relid tool. I've used it on two cpus so far without issues.


----------



## warbucks

inedenimadam said:


> a download link was posted a couple posts after. That is where I got it.
> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability Thread | Page 227 | Overclock.net


I thought they were PDF's but looks like you just need to rename the file. Thanks.


----------



## warbucks

Here's some Unify-X results. Using a 12900KS, Gskill 6400 CL32 kit.

5.2 all core, 4.2 cache, 4.0 e-cores @6800CL30










I do have the APEX as well but my board won't go above 6600 and even that is with loose timings.


----------



## inedenimadam

warbucks said:


> I thought they were PDF's but looks like you just need to rename the file. Thanks.


that is correct. its not terribly uncommon to rename the file type to make it sharable.


----------



## Gadfly

warbucks said:


> Here's some Unify-X results. Using a 12900KS, Gskill 6400 CL32 kit.
> 
> 5.2 all core, 4.2 cache, 4.0 e-cores @6800CL30
> 
> View attachment 2559960
> 
> 
> I do have the APEX as well but my board won't go above 6600 and even that is with loose timings.


nice.

what voltages?


----------



## matique

SuperCloud said:


> Does anyone have a list of memory kits - their model numbers for Sk-Hynix modules?
> 
> Is this Sk Hynix, Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 - KF560C40BBK2-32?
> How far can I OC this kit and at what lowest primary timings on Unify-X mobo?


As long as the stick is ETM*H *it is hynix. I don't have a unify-x but on unify itx it can do 7000c30 without issue, on Unify X it should do something like 6800-6933 as well.


----------



## 7empe

warbucks said:


> Here's some Unify-X results. Using a 12900KS, Gskill 6400 CL32 kit.
> 
> 5.2 all core, 4.2 cache, 4.0 e-cores @6800CL30
> 
> View attachment 2559960
> 
> 
> I do have the APEX as well but my board won't go above 6600 and even that is with loose timings.


Just curious. What do you mean by "my board won't go above 6600 and even that is with loose timings"? It won't train correctly, won't POST or frequency can't be stabilized no matter the voltage/timings?


----------



## Gadfly

7empe said:


> Just curious. What do you mean by "my board won't go above 6600 and even that is with loose timings"? It won't train correctly, won't POST or frequency can't be stabilized no matter the voltage/timings?


sounds like the normal APEX stabilization issues.

On my APEX I could boot 6600, 6800, and even 7000, but I could not get anything over 6400 stable no matter what I did. That same ram, with the same CPU, would run stable at 7000 in a Unify X or the Dark KP

What I found was that I could run 1 stick of memory 100% stable at 7000C32 2T in Slot B (furthest from CPU), but I could only run that same stick at 6400C32 2T in slot A (exact same timings).

Which sucked as I really liked the Apex.


----------



## 7empe

Gadfly said:


> sounds like the normal APEX stabilization issues.
> 
> On my APEX I could boot 6600, 6800, and even 7000, but I could not get anything over 6400 stable no matter what I did. That same ram, with the same CPU, would run stable at 7000 in a Unify X or the Dark KP
> 
> What I found was that I could run 1 stick of memory 100% stable at 7000C32 2T in Slot B (furthest from CPU), but I could only run that same stick at 6400C32 2T in slot A (exact same timings).
> 
> Which sucked as I really liked the Apex.


I have exactly the same issue as you do. 6400 C28 runs smoothly. Anything above can't be fully stable at all. I can run "almost" stable 6600C28_1T, 6600C30_2T, 6800C30_2T. I can run "so-so" stable 6933C30_2T and 7000C30_2T. I spent months on different timings/voltages sequences but everything points to the Apex that can't carry higher frequency than 6400.

I won't be buying another Z690 board to chase for 7000. I'm going to wait for the Z790 and 13900K, but I won't go with Asus/Apex this time.


----------



## warbucks

Gadfly said:


> nice.
> 
> what voltages?


LLC Mode 7 / vcore @ 1.44v
1.20 SA, 1.30 VDD2 (MC), 1.54 TX, 1.57 VDD/VDDQ

I still need to delid the cpu and put it under the supercool direct die block. Should have that done in the next couple weeks.


----------



## chibi

MSI MEG Z690I UNIFY is better than ASUS Z690-I for ITX? Is the MEG considered best ITX for ram overclock in Alderlake gen?


----------



## J_Lab4645

toncij said:


> So far I've noticed DDR5 is incredibly sensitive to temperature. If I don't actively cool it, my G.Skill Hynix-M 6400CL32 goes to touch 57+ and then it starts crapping out even at XMP (I and II whatever that differed in).
> However, can't be sure if it's the board, RAM kit or CPU. Added a bit to SA (1.245V) and Memory Ctrl. (1.2625V) and it's "XMP1" stable, but needs active cooling to stay under 55+ (one fan keeps it at max 45°C under MemTest86 Pro). Really not sure what might be the issue or whether any of these are safe voltages and how high should I go with those for any of the speeds.
> 
> 7200/7400... even 6800 seems like fantasy without burning it down. Any suggestions?
> 
> P.S. Is EVGA Z690 Kingpin sold in Europe anyway?



5 minute fix. 92mm Noctua fan with Velcro strip. Drops Samsung DDR5 by 10-12C


----------



## z390e

is there an iPPC-3000 version of the NF-A4x10 FLX seems like that would be $$$ for a ram fan


----------



## satinghostrider

chibi said:


> MSI MEG Z690I UNIFY is better than ASUS Z690-I for ITX? Is the MEG considered best ITX for ram overclock in Alderlake gen?


@matique has both. Unify-X much better for memory OC while Asus Z690i was better for CPU OC.


----------



## z390e

satinghostrider said:


> @matique has both. Unify-X much better for memory OC while Asus Z690i was better for CPU OC.


FWIW the recent corsair invitational, now ofc this is LN2, but this is the top 5










OGS - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex
Rauf - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex
Bullshooter - Gigabyte Z690 AORUS Tachyon
Sergmann - Gigabyte Z690 AORUS Tachyon
Luumi - eVGA Z690 Dark K!ngp!n


That picture and details are rom the article over at Team OGS wins the Corsair DDR5 Invitational!

That to me looks like Apex is the top for Memory OC. Both the top two are using them although the #'s 2-4 are all very close together, score wise.


----------



## satinghostrider

z390e said:


> FWIW the recent corsair invitational, now ofc this is LN2, but this is the top 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OGS - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex
> Rauf - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex
> Bullshooter - Gigabyte Z690 AORUS Tachyon
> Sergmann - Gigabyte Z690 AORUS Tachyon
> Luumi - eVGA Z690 Dark K!ngp!n
> 
> 
> That picture and details are rom the article over at Team OGS wins the Corsair DDR5 Invitational!
> 
> That to me looks like Apex is the top for Memory OC. Both the top two are using them although the next four are all very close together, score wise.


Probably binned boards supplied by all manufacturers in contests like these.


----------



## chibi

satinghostrider said:


> @matique has both. Unify-X much better for memory OC while Asus Z690i was better for CPU OC.


Thank you for the insight. I'm going ITX so need to choose between Asus z690i or MSI z690i. I've always been ATX and Apex for my past 3 gens but going a different direction this time. MSI is looking good, I prefer their board layout this gen over the Asus. BIOS I have always been a fan of Asus. Hard decision definitely.


----------



## satinghostrider

chibi said:


> Thank you for the insight. I'm going ITX so need to choose between Asus z690i or MSI z690i. I've always been ATX and Apex for my past 3 gens but going a different direction this time. MSI is looking good, I prefer their board layout this gen over the Asus. BIOS I have always been a fan of Asus. Hard decision definitely.


Should serve you well. He's gotten 7000c30 running stable on his kit 0 issues with not much work. Only thing is CPU OC isn't as granular like the Apex if you can live with that.


----------



## matique

chibi said:


> Thank you for the insight. I'm going ITX so need to choose between Asus z690i or MSI z690i. I've always been ATX and Apex for my past 3 gens but going a different direction this time. MSI is looking good, I prefer their board layout this gen over the Asus. BIOS I have always been a fan of Asus. Hard decision definitely.


MSI Unify ITX 
*Pros*
-Solid VRM 10x 105a; even though it's a single 8 pin EPS, it was still able to handle 12900k Ycruncher run at 415w without issue.
-VRM is decently cooled even though it's a small heatsink. Never seen mine go past 60c.
-Great ram overclocking. Haven't met anyone with the board that complained about ram OC. Samsung goes to 6800c38 and Hynix 7000c30 daily. Does pretty good 1T too, I've seen some with good sticks do 6800c28 1T stable. No reboot instability nonsense.
-Triple M.2; 2x gen4, 1x gen3. I have 3x 2TB drives on my mobo and 6tb total is plenty for me.
-Understated all black look. Could be a con for some that loves rgb, but I totally dig the stealth look that doesn't shout _gamery
-_Very good all core CPU overclocking, stable BCLK overclocking as well.
-Excellent rear IO. 6x USB A, 2x USB C thunderbolt 4, cmos clear button.

*Cons*
-Per core overclocking is quite **** on MSI Bios as compared to Asus. You lose granular control over VF curve, and auto voltages are always too high.
-The bios UX is way behind Asus. You'll need time to get used to it. It's just a massive wall of controls.
-Bios sometimes is kinda buggy at times, but they are not that bad.

ASUS Strix ITX
*Pros*
-Excellent VRM as well, 10x 105a. Handles the 12900k just fine
-Good VRM cooling, slightly better than the Unify
-Ram OC on it is good compared to other ATX boards, but it has trouble stabilising ram OC past 6800. I don't know if it's my board specifically or not.
-Excellent CPU Ocing. Per Core OC works flawlessly. I can get single core to 5600 via TVB (validated by r23 ST score) and have stable 5200 all core.
-All core OC works well also but required more voltage than my Unify.
-Asus bios is familiar and intuitive.
-Access to various Asus OC tweaking software

*Cons*
-Ram OC stability in general is hard on this even though it can boot really high speeds. You would need to tweak around voltages bit by bit. Even then, from time to time I had boot instability. For example, 6800c38 samsung would be stable for like a week (karhu, tm5, HCI, YC, OCCT stable), and then suddenly become unstable one day! You would then have to clear cmos, go back to bios and reapply your ram oc and it'll be stable again. Baffling. I am not sure if they fixed this since I have not used the board since February. It's defo a bios issue.
-The height of the m.2 stack is really really high for an ITX board, such that it would interfere with a rear backplate if you have one on your gpu. AIOs are restricted to a select few due to clearance issues. If you go custom cooling you would have no problems.
-Only 2x gen4 m.2 slots
-No backplate which is a sin for the price they charge this.

Overall I'm happy I made the switch to MSI Unify as it is a more stable for me. I do miss the OCTVB boosts of the Asus board, but I'm pretty satisfied with a 5.3 all core OC on the unify. Good luck making your decision.


----------



## sblantipodi

After 5 months, my Extreme continue to freeze at boot even at stock clocks using 4 sticks of SK Hynix...

I want a refund, where did you asked for a refund guys?
I think that it's time that Asus gives my money back.


----------



## matique

sblantipodi said:


> After 5 months, my Extreme continue to freeze at boot even at stock clocks using 4 sticks of SK Hynix...
> 
> I want a refund, where did you asked for a refund guys?
> I think that it's time that Asus gives my money back.












Good luck getting a refund on memory OC issues on 4x16 when their official qvl only supports 4400 max. They're quite picky that way.


----------



## sblantipodi

matique said:


> View attachment 2560107
> 
> 
> Good luck getting a refund on memory OC issues on 4x16 when their official qvl only supports 4400 max. They're quite picky that way.


Yes but I'm running my sticks at 4GHz and I still have the problem 










the Extreme board have some serious design flaws since it can't work even at minimum specs recommended by INtel.

I want my money back, where should I ask for my money back?


----------



## chibi

matique said:


> MSI Unify ITX
> *Pros*
> -Solid VRM 10x 105a; even though it's a single 8 pin EPS, it was still able to handle 12900k Ycruncher run at 415w without issue.
> -VRM is decently cooled even though it's a small heatsink. Never seen mine go past 60c.
> -Great ram overclocking. Haven't met anyone with the board that complained about ram OC. Samsung goes to 6800c38 and Hynix 7000c30 daily. Does pretty good 1T too, I've seen some with good sticks do 6800c28 1T stable. No reboot instability nonsense.
> -Triple M.2; 2x gen4, 1x gen3. I have 3x 2TB drives on my mobo and 6tb total is plenty for me.
> -Understated all black look. Could be a con for some that loves rgb, but I totally dig the stealth look that doesn't shout _gamery
> -_Very good all core CPU overclocking, stable BCLK overclocking as well.
> -Excellent rear IO. 6x USB A, 2x USB C thunderbolt 4, cmos clear button.
> 
> *Cons*
> -Per core overclocking is quite **** on MSI Bios as compared to Asus. You lose granular control over VF curve, and auto voltages are always too high.
> -The bios UX is way behind Asus. You'll need time to get used to it. It's just a massive wall of controls.
> -Bios sometimes is kinda buggy at times, but they are not that bad.
> 
> ASUS Strix ITX
> *Pros*
> -Excellent VRM as well, 10x 105a. Handles the 12900k just fine
> -Good VRM cooling, slightly better than the Unify
> -Ram OC on it is good compared to other ATX boards, but it has trouble stabilising ram OC past 6800. I don't know if it's my board specifically or not.
> -Excellent CPU Ocing. Per Core OC works flawlessly. I can get single core to 5600 via TVB (validated by r23 ST score) and have stable 5200 all core.
> -All core OC works well also but required more voltage than my Unify.
> -Asus bios is familiar and intuitive.
> -Access to various Asus OC tweaking software
> 
> *Cons*
> -Ram OC stability in general is hard on this even though it can boot really high speeds. You would need to tweak around voltages bit by bit. Even then, from time to time I had boot instability. For example, 6800c38 samsung would be stable for like a week (karhu, tm5, HCI, YC, OCCT stable), and then suddenly become unstable one day! You would then have to clear cmos, go back to bios and reapply your ram oc and it'll be stable again. Baffling. I am not sure if they fixed this since I have not used the board since February. It's defo a bios issue.
> -The height of the m.2 stack is really really high for an ITX board, such that it would interfere with a rear backplate if you have one on your gpu. AIOs are restricted to a select few due to clearance issues. If you go custom cooling you would have no problems.
> -Only 2x gen4 m.2 slots
> -No backplate which is a sin for the price they charge this.
> 
> Overall I'm happy I made the switch to MSI Unify as it is a more stable for me. I do miss the OCTVB boosts of the Asus board, but I'm pretty satisfied with a 5.3 all core OC on the unify. Good luck making your decision.


Great write up, thank you so much! I will go with the Unify this time around and try something new 😄


----------



## matique

sblantipodi said:


> Yes but I'm running my sticks at 4GHz and I still have the problem
> 
> View attachment 2560108
> 
> 
> the Extreme board have some serious design flaws since it can't work even at minimum specs recommended by INtel.
> 
> I want my money back, where should I ask for my money back?


Probably email whoever you bought it from and request for a refund. But after 5 months...that's tough as its outside the refund period. Best bet is email Asus to see if you can another unit. 



chibi said:


> Great write up, thank you so much! I will go with the Unify this time around and try something new 😄


All the best 👍


----------



## Gadfly

sblantipodi said:


> Yes but I'm running my sticks at 4GHz and I still have the problem
> 
> View attachment 2560108
> 
> 
> the Extreme board have some serious design flaws since it can't work even at minimum specs recommended by INtel.
> 
> I want my money back, where should I ask for my money back?


You are running 4x8GB sticks? Pretty sure all 16GB/32GB DDR5 dimms are DR, not SR.


----------



## Gadfly

What are you guys running for tXP and tXPDLL? 

I am having a shockingly hard time finding info about how to properly set these timings.


----------



## sblantipodi

Gadfly said:


> You are running 4x8GB sticks? Pretty sure all 16GB/32GB DDR5 dimms are DR, not SR.


16GB sticks ar SR, 32GB sticks are DR.


----------



## Gadfly

sblantipodi said:


> 16GB sticks ar SR, 32GB sticks are DR.


pretty sure that is incorrect.

last I saw, only the 8gb single channel dimms are single rank, and Dell is the only vendor I have seen that sells them.

my G.Skill 16gb dimms are all DR.

* edit, looks like I am wrong about this. Ranks are a little weird on DDR5


----------



## db000

db000 said:


> I've been in the search of a 2DIMM waterblock to match my copper heatsinks. Emailed EKWB twice about it and they wont produce any more of the Acetal(black)+Copper 2DIMM blocks. So after reaching out to Bartlomeij (from Bartxstore) about possibly of making one, I've received some CAD drawings for a block. Not sure I can share any of the CAD drawing yet, but it looks really good. I can keep you updated once I know more.
> 
> View attachment 2551189
> 
> _Old picture_
> 
> 
> Also did some extremely minor tweaks on the 6600-30-40-40-30-360-2T since last post, without touching voltages or messing up stability. 4.0 -> 4.7 on cache.
> View attachment 2551194
> 
> 
> I can boot 6800c30 but not passing TM5 w/o Errors, 7000c32 booted only once... after that only trouble. I might get 6800 2T working  .... or 6600 1T, since it is booting after all, so will work on that I think.


Bartxstore came through now with my request! Huge W! You can find the new block here. Bartxstore is the best 


https://bartxstore.com/shop/ram-water-block-2dimm/


----------



## sblantipodi

Gadfly said:


> pretty sure that is incorrect.
> 
> last I saw, only the 8gb single channel dimms are single rank, and Dell is the only vendor I have seen that sells them.
> 
> my G.Skill 16gb dimms are all DR.
> 
> * edit, looks like I am wrong about this. Ranks are a little weird on DDR5


8GB per rank on DDR5? come on we are using DDR5 not DDR4, be serious.


----------



## Raphie

So, after 1 month with my MSI Pro z690a DDR4, I want to move to ddr5 as well, going from 60k throughput in AIDA to 110k+
so I ordered a 32gb set of Fury 6000, the Pro z690a ddr5 and a MEG Unify X (with 2 optimized ram slots)
(current setup in my sig) just want to know is the Unify any better at mem OC than the Pro Z690a? or is it all marketing BS and do people end up with the same settings regardless. Any insight appreciated.
Not interested in CPU OC as I’m on air and the thing is hot enough at stock. But mem must fly 
110k+ AIDA / 100k+ MLC aiming <50ns latency


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> So, after 1 month with my MSI Pro z690a DDR4, I want to move to ddr5 as well, going from 60k throughput in AIDA to 110k+
> so I ordered a 32gb set of Fury 6000, the Pro z690a ddr5 and a MEG Unify X (with 2 optimized ram slots)
> (current setup in my sig) just want to know is the Unify any better at mem OC than the Pro Z690a? or is it all marketing BS and do people end up with the same settings regardless. Any insight appreciated.
> Not interested in CPU OC as I’m on air and the thing is hot enough at stock. But mem must fly
> 110k+ AIDA / 100k+ MLC aiming <50ns latency


if it helps at all, I went from a MSI Carbon DDR5 board to my current Unify X and the memory clocking was night and day better.. Unify X is amazing, you will love it. very forgiving motherboard


----------



## newls1

TRRD_S and TRRD_L settings. Im currently @ 8/8 for each of those... How tightly are these memory settings with stabilty, and is there performance to be gain by lowering them to something like 6/4? If I set them to 6/4 I can lower my tFAW to 16 as im currently @ 32. So with these 3 changes all add up to a noticable difference in something??


----------



## warbucks

7empe said:


> Just curious. What do you mean by "my board won't go above 6600 and even that is with loose timings"? It won't train correctly, won't POST or frequency can't be stabilized no matter the voltage/timings?


Running auto for all timings except primiaries. Can't tighten secondaries or tertiaries without stability issues regardless of voltage/timings. Same cpu/ram in Unify-X lets me run higher memory speed and way tighter timings without stability issues. I've tested each memory slot on the apex board and the variance is around 400Mhz between them.


----------



## warbucks

newls1 said:


> TRRD_S and TRRD_L settings. Im currently @ 8/8 for each of those... How tightly are these memory settings with stabilty, and is there performance to be gain by lowering them to something like 6/4? If I set them to 6/4 I can lower my tFAW to 16 as im currently @ 32. So with these 3 changes all add up to a noticable difference in something??


Try lowering to 6/4 and tFAW at 16. If not stable, try 8/4 and tFAW at 16. You'd have to test to see what kind of performance differences you're seeing but generally you want to tighten those three.


----------



## newls1

warbucks said:


> Try lowering to 6/4 and tFAW at 16. If not stable, try 8/4 and tFAW at 16. You'd have to test to see what kind of performance differences you're seeing but generally you want to tighten those three.


my goal for tomorrow now, thanks


----------



## KedarWolf

!!!DEAL OF THE DAY ALERT!!!
The Award Winning XPG LANCER 32GB(2x16GB) 6000MHz RGB DDR5 Memory kit is on sale for $299.99! Today only at B&H Photo.
Shop Now: https://bhpho.to/3ypLsSg


----------



## AdamKelly

I got a new setup, 12900k, z690 aorus master (bios f8e) and a set of gskill 6400 32 (F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K) and I'm having issues running the ram at 6400. If run regular xmp I'll get random game crashes no matter the game I play, dropping the frequency to 6200 yields no issues.

Are there some recommended voltages to try tweaking? 
What software is the best for testing the stability of the ram?
Should I get a different set of ram entirely?


----------



## DanGleeballs

AdamKelly said:


> I got a new setup, 12900k, z690 aorus master (bios f8e) and a set of gskill 6400 32 (F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K) and I'm having issues running the ram at 6400. If run regular xmp I'll get random game crashes no matter the game I play, dropping the frequency to 6200 yields no issues.
> 
> Are there some recommended voltages to try tweaking?
> What software is the best for testing the stability of the ram?
> Should I get a different set of ram entirely?


Firstly if you haven't already you really need to have a read through the thread. Even if you're not new to DDR5 you will learn a ton.
You will also learn that a 4 memory slot board can be very difficult to overclock ram past say 6200.
I have an Aorus Pro, similar board without the price tag of the Master. I can manage 6200 c30 1T with decent timings. 6400 is doable but needs more volts and direct cooling.
Heat is another issue that will affect stability.
Others with the same ram as you on 2 slot boards are getting ram speeds around 7000 c30.
Your processor memory controller has to be upto the job too. I would probably stick with 6200 while you get to grips with your set up
I can help with some settings later to give you a starting point if you want.


----------



## Raphie

why is Ycruncher that slow? On my stock 12900k running ddr4 @ 3900 (62k AIDA, 42ns) it’s already 78. Are u throthling?


matique said:


> As long as the stick is ETM*H *it is hynix. I don't have a unify-x but on unify itx it can do 7000c30 without issue, on Unify X it should do something like 6800-6933 as well.


----------



## newls1

warbucks said:


> Try lowering to 6/4 and tFAW at 16. If not stable, try 8/4 and tFAW at 16. You'd have to test to see what kind of performance differences you're seeing but generally you want to tighten those three.


changed to TRRD_L =6 / TRRD_S =4 and TFAW = 16 and as far as AIDA64 scores look like it didnt change much, but still seems to be stable (so far in memtest testing) and there lower numbers now, so that has to be better!


----------



## jomama22

Raphie said:


> why is Ycruncher that slow? On my stock 12900k running ddr4 @ 3900 (62k AIDA, 42ns) it’s already 78. Are u throthling?


Because he has ecores disabled.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> changed to TRRD_L =6 / TRRD_S =4 and TFAW = 16 and as far as AIDA64 scores look like it didnt change much, but still seems to be stable (so far in memtest testing) and there lower numbers now, so that has to be better!


For ddr4 those changes had greater impact. For DDR5 (with burst length doubled) the only benchmark of many I tried that was slightly improved enough to be measurable was cpu photoworxx. Not one of the best bang for buck settings, but like you said doesnt seem to affect stability much either.


----------



## AdamKelly

DanGleeballs said:


> Firstly if you haven't already you really need to have a read through the thread. Even if you're not new to DDR5 you will learn a ton.
> You will also learn that a 4 memory slot board can be very difficult to overclock ram past say 6200.
> I have an Aorus Pro, similar board without the price tag of the Master. I can manage 6200 c30 1T with decent timings. 6400 is doable but needs more volts and direct cooling.
> Heat is another issue that will affect stability.
> Others with the same ram as you on 2 slot boards are getting ram speeds around 7000 c30.
> Your processor memory controller has to be upto the job too. I would probably stick with 6200 while you get to grips with your set up
> I can help with some settings later to give you a starting point if you want.


I've read thru some of the thread (mostly the most recent stuff) but it is at 233 pages long at this point. Noted some voltages people say to adjust VDD and VDDQ to 1.4 but thats the stock voltage for this kit with xmp so wasn't sure what to adjust from there.
I didn't realize the issue was with the boards, I thought it was a quad stick issue not a quad slot issue.

I've stress tested with tm5 and aida. Also noticed that if I try to adjust the frequency to 6300 it just runs at 6200.









I'd appreciate any advice for tweaking to get some better performance with this setup.


----------



## DanGleeballs

AdamKelly said:


> I've read thru some of the thread (mostly the most recent stuff) but it is at 233 pages long at this point. Noted some voltages people say to adjust VDD and VDDQ to 1.4 but thats the stock voltage for this kit with xmp so wasn't sure what to adjust from there.
> I didn't realize the issue was with the boards, I thought it was a quad stick issue not a quad slot issue.
> 
> I've stress tested with tm5 and aida. Also noticed that if I try to adjust the frequency to 6300 it just runs at 6200.
> View attachment 2560251
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate any advice for tweaking to get some better performance with this setup.


If you have that stable then you are already doing well.
What has XMP set SA and VDD2 voltages to?
I need to set 1.36 VDD2 for 6200 and 1.39 for 6400 Too much can also be unstable.
SA is always somewhere around 1.15 for me.


----------



## newls1

AdamKelly said:


> I've read thru some of the thread (mostly the most recent stuff) but it is at 233 pages long at this point. Noted some voltages people say to adjust VDD and VDDQ to 1.4 but thats the stock voltage for this kit with xmp so wasn't sure what to adjust from there.
> I didn't realize the issue was with the boards, I thought it was a quad stick issue not a quad slot issue.
> 
> I've stress tested with tm5 and aida. Also noticed that if I try to adjust the frequency to 6300 it just runs at 6200.
> View attachment 2560251
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate any advice for tweaking to get some better performance with this setup.


ill post you up my secondaries and teriaries in just a bit... see if you can copy/paste them to bring down your latency into the 50s


----------



## AdamKelly

DanGleeballs said:


> If you have that stable then you are already doing well.
> What has XMP set SA and VDD2 voltages to?
> I need to set 1.36 VDD2 for 6200 and 1.39 for 6400 Too much can also be unstable.
> SA is always somewhere around 1.15 for me.


According to HWInfo looks like VCCSA is running at 1.35, and VDD2 is also 1.4
Is there a tool that supports dumping the ddr5 xmp profiles? I couldn't find vdd2/sa on the xmp sheet in the gigabyte spd setup page




newls1 said:


> ill post you up my secondaries and teriaries in just a bit... see if you can copy/paste them to bring down your latency into the 50s


Thanks, would appreciate it.


----------



## newls1

put SA @ 1.15v. You have no need to run SA that high. BRB with other settings for you


----------



## matique

Raphie said:


> why is Ycruncher that slow? On my stock 12900k running ddr4 @ 3900 (62k AIDA, 42ns) it’s already 78. Are u throthling?


Disabled ecores  I also only ran YC to check for stability. With ecores and full tune on, I did pretty okay.


















matique`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 56sec 581ms with a Core i9 12900K


The Core i9 12900K @ 5400MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b benchmark. matiqueranks #23 worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## newls1

AdamKelly said:


> According to HWInfo looks like VCCSA is running at 1.35, and VDD2 is also 1.4
> Is there a tool that supports dumping the ddr5 xmp profiles? I couldn't find vdd2/sa on the xmp sheet in the gigabyte spd setup page
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, would appreciate it.


copy these secondary/tertiary timings. Obviously dont set 1.5v for the voltages and ram speed of 6808 you wont be able to copy with a 4 dimmer without 57463 hours of pulling your hair out. so maybe this will help you out and get your latency into an area that makes sense. Also, we are using the same Ram I think. Didnt you say Gskill 6400 CL32 earlier? Thats what I have here

*EDIT Also, DO NOT ENTER 1'S IN YOUR BIOS WHERE YOU SEE I HAVE 1'S!! That will be a no beuno for you. Leave those on auto for you


----------



## DanGleeballs

@AdamKelly this is my 24/7 settings, VDD / VDDQ set at 1.45v gives me 1.40v solid under load.
If you're stable with XMP set down to 6200 maybe try working down timings to something like this.







Don't just throw all those in there at once. Work your way through one group at a time and test so you know what's giving the errors when you get them.
I see @newls1 has given you some ideas too


----------



## newls1

Can we please talk about tWRWR_SG timing @opt33 ..... Im @ 22. Where is a safe but better performing number to set this @?


----------



## DanGleeballs

I think too low can sometimes pass testing but still crash or freeze games.


----------



## Raphie

that’s better 


matique said:


> Disabled ecores  I also only ran YC to check for stability. With ecores and full tune on, I did pretty okay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> matique`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 56sec 581ms with a Core i9 12900K
> 
> 
> The Core i9 12900K @ 5400MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b benchmark. matiqueranks #23 worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org


----------



## AdamKelly

DanGleeballs said:


> @AdamKelly this is my 24/7 settings, VDD / VDDQ set at 1.45v gives me 1.40v solid under load.
> If you're stable with XMP set down to 6200 maybe try working down timings to something like this.
> View attachment 2560257
> 
> Don't just throw all those in there at once. Work your way through one group at a time and test so you know what's giving the errors when you get them.
> I see @newls1 has given you some ideas too


How are you adjusting tWR to be so low? On the master advanced config, the lowest option is 48.


----------



## newls1

AdamKelly said:


> How are you adjusting tWR to be so low? On the master advanced config, the lowest option is 48.


learning from @opt33, tWRPRE and tWRPDEN sets twr. so leave twr on auto and set those 2 settings to 62/62 and see where twr lands


----------



## Gking62

FYI, G.Skill F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK just came into stock at Newegg, just grabbed a set for myself. I've lurked here for awhile now and must say I really appreciate the contributions from many here, and I just might be looking for a bit of assistance eventually in getting this 6600 to 7k


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> Can we please talk about tWRWR_SG timing @opt33 ..... Im @ 22. Where is a safe but better performing number to set this @?


what is the policy for this setting? How do I know where to start lowering this? I see most people are running this @ 9 or 13 but these are all on asus boards, not sure if I can follow that on my unify x. @opt33 where are you setting this at and what does this effect, is it Latency or Bandwidth? Thank you!


----------



## Salvadv2004

[CITAZIONE="adna, posta: 28917255, membro: 644937"]
se vuoi vedere il chip Micron a 6000 MHz. (lo stesso che voglio)
nel mio caso. può avviare e utilizzare join web/forums.,.. ma non può passare tm5 senza errori
ps. [email protected] | [email protected] | [email protected] il mio set sembra stabile
[ALLEGARE=completo]2539398[/ALLEGARE]
[ALLEGARE=completo]2539399[/ALLEGARE]
[/CITAZIONE]
[CITAZIONE="adna, post: 28917255, membro: 644937"]
se vuoi vedere il chip Micron a 6000 MHz. (lo stesso che voglio) 
nel mio caso. può avviare e utilizzare join web/forums.,.. ma non può passare tm5 senza errori
ps. [email protected] | [email protected] | [email protected] il mio set sembra stabile
View attachment 2539398

View attachment 2539399

[/CITAZIONE]
Ho un kit corsair 4800mhz e sono arrivato a 5400 cl 34 39 39 44 e ho impostato 1.4 v su vdd e vddq, anche se con voltaggi più bassi dovrebbe funzionare comunque secondo voi posso migliorare? ho visto che hai raggiunto 6000 mhz con micron. come scheda madre ho una z690 aorus pro. Grazie in anticipo e scusate per la traduzione, ho usato google traduttore


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> what is the policy for this setting? How do I know where to start lowering this? I see most people are running this @ 9 or 13 but these are all on asus boards, not sure if I can follow that on my unify x. @opt33 where are you setting this at and what does this effect, is it Latency or Bandwidth? Thank you!


Just got home and tried "12" for tWRWR_SG (was 22) and gained about 1.5gb/s on write speed it looks like. Everything else stayed within variance. Guess it was worth the change.


----------



## 7empe

newls1 said:


> Just got home and tried "12" for tWRWR_SG (was 22) and gained about 1.5gb/s on write speed it looks like. Everything else stayed within variance. Guess it was worth the change.


Try 9. Lowest it can go. In my testing this one is stable if it POSTs. No issues up to 6800 with it.


----------



## bscool

What is the weakest ddr5 IMC you guys have seen? I just got a 12900k and I can only get it to boot 6400.

I have tested 2 12900KF and 1 12900KS in same MB and memory can do 7000c32 Karhu, y cruncher etc stable and boot 7400.

I didnt know there was that much variance on ddr5 IMC. I still need to test each channel as maybe 1 is better, just surprised to see such variance from my other CPUs.

The ddr4 IMC is not that great either.

Edit MB 2022 Apex and Gskill 6400.

Edit 2 Flashed lastest bios 1503 and so far posting @7400.

Edit 3 I figured it out this CPU is very picky about vdd/vddq compared to the 3 other cpus I have. Need to set lower voltages or wont even boot. Is stable at same setting/timings 7000c32 but needs lower vdd/vddq 1.55v vs other cpus needed 1.6/1.55.


----------



## newls1

7empe said:


> Try 9. Lowest it can go. In my testing this one is stable if it POSTs. No issues up to 6800 with it.


will give it a go in a little bit sir. Already shut that pc down and working on notebook now. Ill report back with my findings. thank you


----------



## Raphie

So, tomorrow my MEG Unify X and G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK arrives.
very curious moving from config in my sig to this setup. I hope for at least 6800, maybe 7k, being 110k aida read, <50ns….

I got 64k read @ 43ns out of the 4 viper steel sticks, burning another 1.2k€ I expect something special


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> I thought of that as well, but I had the memory at defaults for the CPU binning test I use.
> 
> Here is the breakdown:
> 
> Apex:
> 
> 5.5/4.3 1.261v (1.32 set in bios, llc7) vcore under load.
> 
> Dark Kingpin:
> 
> 5.4/4.3 1.3v vcore under load, (-25% droop)
> 5.5/4.3 won’t pass even at 1.385v under load.
> 
> Same test, same CPU, same cooling, same core temps, same memory running at the same speeds.
> 
> The Dark kingpin just requires a lot more cpu core voltage to be stable. I am sure it is an awesome board for running cold; but for a daily use ambient board, not so much. It just does not overclock the CPU anywhere near as well as the Z690 Apex.
> 
> Which is fine. It runs memory well, and is a really well made board; That said when Asus said they couldn’t replace my Apex because they were not making them anymore, I should have just purchased an Unfi-X. The Dark Kingpin isn’t worth the money unless you plan on using it exclusively for LN2.
> 
> EDIT: 7000C30 1T timings and AIDA @jomama22
> 
> Mem VDD/VDDQ: 1.53v
> CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX / IVR on Asus): 1.35v
> VDD2 (MC on Asus): Auto (matches Mem VDD, so 1.53v)
> SA: Auto (0.943v)
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559795


Testing on my Dark hasn't seen any reduction in core clocks. Added direct die and now run 5.6 @ 1.34v 70C package temp. I'll have benches up soon enough.


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> Testing on my Dark hasn't seen any reduction in core clocks. Added direct die and now run 5.6 @ 1.34v 70C package temp. I'll have benches up soon enough.


Nice , wish I could say the same


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> So, tomorrow my MEG Unify X and G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK arrives.
> very curious moving from config in my sig to this setup. I hope for at least 6800, maybe 7k, being 110k aida read, <50ns….
> 
> I got 64k read @ 43ns out of the 4 viper steel sticks, burning another 1.2k€ I expect something special


DDR5 is a whole new learning curve. I to went from DDR4 to DDR5 recently and yes, im very glad I did, but jesus I had to ask a million questions here and piss several people off with my questions but in the end it was worth it. You will ABSOLUTLEY LOVE the Unify X and GSkill Combo... exactly what I have! If you need anything, holla back


----------



## Nizzen

error 404


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Just got home and tried "12" for tWRWR_SG (was 22) and gained about 1.5gb/s on write speed it looks like. Everything else stayed within variance. Guess it was worth the change.


yeah, you are at the point where going lower will be trial and error with your particular components/voltages.


----------



## Gking62

I've got G.Skill 6600 on the way for delivery tomorrow, I'm curious from those of you using the 6400 which is the same voltage, 1.40v what are your temps at XMP, MemTest runs? I'm currently running the 5600 (PC specs in my sig) and run it at 1.25v at XMP1/2 at total stability, temps at MemTest load in low 40s, low 30's in games.


----------



## Raphie

newls1 said:


> DDR5 is a whole new learning curve. I to went from DDR4 to DDR5 recently and yes, im very glad I did, but jesus I had to ask a million questions here and piss several people off with my questions but in the end it was worth it. You will ABSOLUTLEY LOVE the Unify X and GSkill Combo... exactly what I have! If you need anything, holla back


ThnX, Dragonball settings would be nice 😇


----------



## S4squatch

Gking62 said:


> I've got G.Skill 6600 on the way for delivery tomorrow, I'm curious from those of you using the 6400 which is the same voltage, 1.40v what are your temps at XMP, MemTest runs? I'm currently running the 5600 (PC specs in my sig) and run it at 1.25v at XMP1/2 at total stability, temps at MemTest load in low 40s, low 30's in games.


Karhu 24 hours run @ 6200-30-39-39-71 1.435V. Stick A 51.5°C , Stick B 48.8°C. Air cooled CPU. No active cooling on memory.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Any1 here with Corsair Dominator Platinum 5600 2x16 GB (acc.to UEFI it's Samsung). XMP works fine, but when I try to set anything else manually it doesn't even post. I have AORUS Ultra (I believe that's an issue  ) Do you guys have any suggestion where to start on this AORUS board to make it even post?
I tried many things, but doesn't seem to work..


----------



## Raphie

Got my system assembled last night and after some initial quirks it’s now running 6600Mhz as the first clock. I need some Dragonball settings to get me going for 7000Mhz.
the other issue is that the Unfiny X board is useless for my RME Madi FX card, all the covered panels are too high for the card to be seated properly  So I will need an external PCIe to USB3 enclosure for that. 
But further everything is looking good so far.


----------



## nonamed

Hi Guys, building my sffpc and I have already minitix ASUS ROG STRIX B660-I GAMING WIFI DDR5 motherboard and need to decide on 2x16 ddr5 kit.

I would like to pull a trigger and get G.Skill F5-6000J4040F16GX2-TZ5RK as they are lot cheaper in my country than 6400 CL32 . I wonder if it will be a good choice? Are this Samsung or Hynix?

or maybe better stick with Fury beast 6000 CL40... (KF560C40BBK2-32) which are 100% Hynix as i read here ?
Thx


----------



## satinghostrider

nonamed said:


> Hi Guys, building my sffpc and I have already minitix ASUS ROG STRIX B660-I GAMING WIFI DDR5 motherboard and need to decide on 2x16 ddr5 kit.
> 
> I would like to pull a trigger and get G.Skill F5-6000J4040F16GX2-TZ5RK as they are lot cheaper in my country than 6400 CL32 . I wonder if it will be a good choice? Are this Samsung or Hynix?
> 
> or maybe better stick with Fury beast 6000 CL40... (KF560C40BBK2-32) which are 100% Hynix as i read here ?
> Thx


So far the 6000 kits are Hynix, the 5600 kits recent batches since early this year are all now Samsung. Just double confirm looking at the code on the package. ETHH is Hynix. No issues running 6800C32. Probably can go 7000 stable but wanted to keep my voltage at 1.5V. And it runs alot cooler compared to even the G.Skill 6400C32 kit. I have both.


----------



## leonman44

Hey guys back again , i am having a lot of instability issues with my gskill Z5's 6000mhz 40cas , on some boots i am stable and others right away completely unstable , they need to go cooler , i was trying to get on my hands on this heatsinks : https://bartxstore.com/shop/custom-ram-copper-heatsinks-for-ddr5-ddr4/ 
as i was been told from here guys that they are awsome but its impossible to find , i am waiting months...

I was thinking to just go ek monarchs + corsair ram aircooler , what will i need in order to properly fit the monarchs so i can order everything together?


----------



## sugi0lover

I am sorry, wrong forum.


----------



## asdkj1740

leonman44 said:


> Hey guys back again , i am having a lot of instability issues with my gskill Z5's 6000mhz 40cas , on some boots i am stable and others right away completely unstable , they need to go cooler , i was trying to get on my hands on this heatsinks : https://bartxstore.com/shop/custom-ram-copper-heatsinks-for-ddr5-ddr4/
> as i was been told from here guys that they are awsome but its impossible to find , i am waiting months...
> 
> I was thinking to just go ek monarchs + corsair ram aircooler , what will i need in order to properly fit the monarchs so i can order everything together?


why do not simply sell the **** and get some good kit?


----------



## asdkj1740

satinghostrider said:


> So far the 6000 kits are Hynix, the 5600 kits recent batches since early this year are all now Samsung. Just double confirm looking at the code on the package. ETHH is Hynix. No issues running 6800C32. Probably can go 7000 stable but wanted to keep my voltage at 1.5V. And it runs alot cooler compared to even the G.Skill 6400C32 kit. I have both.


seriously? the Kingston fury heatsink is way too thinner than gskill z5 and adata xpg lancer.


----------



## leonman44

asdkj1740 said:


> why do not simply sell the **** and get some good kit?


i would like to but i paid a lot for these at launch and selling them will lose value + cant seem to find a lot better modules at the same price , so i though its better to slap some good cooling throw a lot voltage and do whatever they best can until better kits comes out.
Right now they are hitting 80s under stress tests , their heatsing is pure junk.


----------



## nonamed

leonman44 said:


> i would like to but i paid a lot for these at launch and selling them will lose value + cant seem to find a lot better modules at the same price , so i though its better to slap some good cooling throw a lot voltage and do whatever they best can until better kits comes out.
> Right now they are hitting 80s under stress tests , their heatsing is pure junk.


What is exactly code of Yours ram? Is it F5-6000J4040F16GX2- TZ5RK? what motherboard You are using?


----------



## leonman44

nonamed said:


> What is exactly code of Yours ram? Is it F5-6000J4040F16GX2- TZ5RK? what motherboard You are using?


This is excactly what i have paired with the Asus Z690 HERO.


----------



## satinghostrider

asdkj1740 said:


> seriously? the Kingston fury heatsink is way too thinner than gskill z5 and adata xpg lancer.


The Kingston Fury heatsinks has a sort of ventilation openings from the top. I also believe the Kingston Fury kits all have thermal pads on the PMIC. That alone is a big difference. I'm actively cooled on mine and my stress testing based on my ambient room temps of 24 degrees (AC) is around 45-47 degrees in TM5 1usmus.


----------



## leonman44

satinghostrider said:


> The Kingston Fury heatsinks has a sort of ventilation openings from the top. I also believe the Kingston Fury kits all have thermal pads on the PMIC. That alone is a big difference. I'm actively cooled on mine and my stress testing based on my ambient room temps of 24 degrees (AC) is around 45-47 degrees in TM5 1usmus.
> 
> View attachment 2560527


indeed it has but I can also remove the plastic strip for the leds , turn them off and then allow the air to push through the top.
Do you know where I can find the double sided adhesive conductive tape ? I bought a 1.1mm 3m one and my dimms seem to run even hotter than before and they won’t close tight on the top of the sticks.
It should have screws for tight seal and thermal paste/pads for best cooling performance.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## satinghostrider

leonman44 said:


> indeed it has but I can also remove the plastic strip for the leds , turn them off and then allow the air to push through the top.
> Do you know where I can find the double sided adhesive conductive tape ? I bought a 1.1mm 3m one and my dimms seem to run even hotter than before and they won’t close tight on the top of the sticks.
> It should have screws for tight seal and thermal paste/pads for best cooling performance.


[/QUOTE]

If you're dismantling your sticks, might as well get something like aftermarket like the EK Monarch modules or something like that. That way you can use thermal tape both sides and secure it with screws to ensure its tightened properly. I wouldn't use back the stock heatsinks if you've taken the trouble to open them up.


----------



## leonman44

satinghostrider said:


> If you're dismantling your sticks, might as well get something like aftermarket like the EK Monarch modules or something like that. That way you can use thermal tape both sides and secure it with screws to ensure its tightened properly. I wouldn't use back the stock heatsinks if you've taken the trouble to open them up.


Yeah , I did already once and tried to install thermal pads to the pmic but as soon as summer almost came it did little to nothing.

does anyone knows what width of thermal pads will I need for these ? I will get the monarchs even if I have to lose rgd. Then get the Corsair rgb aircooler to replace it.


----------



## satinghostrider

leonman44 said:


> If you're dismantling your sticks, might as well get something like aftermarket like the EK Monarch modules or something like that. That way you can use thermal tape both sides and secure it with screws to ensure its tightened properly. I wouldn't use back the stock heatsinks if you've taken the trouble to open them up.


Yeah , I did already once and tried to install thermal pads to the pmic but as soon as summer almost came it did little to nothing.

does anyone knows what width of thermal pads will I need for these ? I will get the monarchs even if I have to lose rgd. Then get the Corsair rgb aircooler to replace it.
[/QUOTE]

EKWB Monarchs are 0.5mm front and 1.5mm rear last I did it for my DDR4. You'll need active cooling on DDR5 unfortunately if you live in hot climates like myself in Singapore where ambient room temps without ac is already 27 degrees celsius. DDR5 is extremely whacky on temps.


----------



## Raphie

Being on air, I'm looking for something around 6600 1T, which gives me 100k+ on both AIDA R/W/C with about 50-55ns
below is 6400/2T 
Heat is important as I use this system as Cubase DAW, and fans need to run as slow as possible. 
The 12900K remains stock for now, maybe even undervolt it to prevent further heat build up.

Would that be in reach?, If so, Any suggestions for improvement?


----------



## Raphie

Improving...


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> Yeah , I did already once and tried to install thermal pads to the pmic but as soon as summer almost came it did little to nothing.
> 
> does anyone knows what width of thermal pads will I need for these ? I will get the monarchs even if I have to lose rgd. Then get the Corsair rgb aircooler to replace it.


EKWB Monarchs are 0.5mm front and 1.5mm rear last I did it for my DDR4. You'll need active cooling on DDR5 unfortunately if you live in hot climates like myself in Singapore where ambient room temps without ac is already 27 degrees celsius. DDR5 is extremely whacky on temps.
[/QUOTE]
Same as ddr4 b-die. Colder is allways better


----------



## leonman44

Nizzen said:


> EKWB Monarchs are 0.5mm front and 1.5mm rear last I did it for my DDR4. You'll need active cooling on DDR5 unfortunately if you live in hot climates like myself in Singapore where ambient room temps without ac is already 27 degrees celsius. DDR5 is extremely whacky on temps.
> 
> 
> Same as ddr4 b-die. Colder is allways better


that’s perfect and I already have 0,5mm thermal pads for pmic.


----------



## bscool

Raphie said:


> Being on air, I'm looking for something around 6600 1T, which gives me 100k+ on both AIDA R/W/C with about 50-55ns
> below is 6400/2T
> Heat is important as I use this system as Cubase DAW, and fans need to run as slow as possible.
> The 12900K remains stock for now, maybe even undervolt it to prevent further heat build up.
> 
> Would that be in reach?, If so, Any suggestions for improvement?
> 
> View attachment 2560546
> 
> View attachment 2560545


From what I know on Unify X most run 2t and you will hit around 6800c30. I think 1t does better on Unify itx.

@newls1 @matique @owikh84 are a few I know who run MSI and can tell you more about MSI and ddr5. Or search for their posts and settings.


----------



## Raphie

@bscool ThnX Man. both 6400 and 6600 get me to 58c on the module spd sensors within 10mins of Karhu
Fan is blowing (5,25" 1300rpm, 2nd fan from my D15 Chromax black cooler) But it's not enough. 
what temp range should I be aiming for under full load?


----------



## bscool

Raphie said:


> @bscool ThnX Man. both 6400 and 6600 get me to 58c on the module spd sensors within 10mins of Karhu
> Fan is blowing (5,25" 1300rpm, 2nd fan from my D15 Chromax black cooler) But it's not enough.
> what temp range should I be aiming for under full load?


I have a 120mm Phanteks t30 fan directly at my ddr5 dims so they max out around 48 under memtests/Karhu. I am not sure what temp the are more likely to error on.

What is you vdd/vddq? I think MSI lets you run them lower than Asus. I need in the 1.55 to 1.6v range to run 7000c32 on Apex.


----------



## Raphie

Below runs at 1.38v (completes Y-Cruncher, not yet Karhu tested)
I'm not looking for 1.5v+ as I can't process the heat So looking for the best clock <1.4v
What SA and VDDQ should I be looking for? These are still on AUTO (and probably to high)
Curious ram temp wise, what good does look like under load.


----------



## Ketku-

Today installed Bitspower DDR5 Heatsinks and 10c temp lower, next Weekend i put water block them because its big project. Need modify Custom Loop pipes, dont have now time.

Added some pics..

G.skill own heatsinks are very bad.. 6400 CL32 mine.


----------



## Raphie

@ 1.388v currently 10mins in Karhu 59.8c (inner slot) 58.5c (outer slot) and beep @ 669% coverage.... 
Not sure what to do. Voltage or temp?


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> @ 1.388v currently 10mins in Karhu 59.8c (inner slot) 58.5c (outer slot) and beep @ 669% coverage....
> Not sure what to do. Voltage or temp?


Fix temp to under 50c, and try again 
60+ and errors starts. For me ut was 65-67c on samsung before errors


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> @ 1.388v currently 10mins in Karhu 59.8c (inner slot) 58.5c (outer slot) and beep @ 669% coverage....
> Not sure what to do. Voltage or temp?


If you put 120mm fan at 1000rpms or 90 mm fan at 1800rpms (both options silent) directly over ram you will drop temps by about 10C. you might be able to raise voltage little higher and achieve stability, but really need fan on ram.
I just made a metal bracket for mine....the small 60mm fans you can buy with brackets only drop temps few C on mine, just dont move enough air.


----------



## matique

Tried to lower some timings, running 7000c30-40-40-28 2T right now but had to bump up vdimm to 1.61v in bios. Top ddr5 bins could do this with 1.5v it seems :/ nevertheless, pretty happy with it.


----------



## jollib

Ketku- said:


> Today installed Bitspower DDR5 Heatsinks and 10c temp lower, next Weekend i put water block them because its big project. Need modify Custom Loop pipes, dont have now time.
> 
> Added some pics..
> 
> G.skill own heatsinks are very bad.. 6400 CL32 mine.
> 
> View attachment 2560570
> 
> View attachment 2560571


Are these the LN2 ram heatsinks?


----------



## Mojundo

Ketku- said:


> Today installed Bitspower DDR5 Heatsinks and 10c temp lower, next Weekend i put water block them because its big project. Need modify Custom Loop pipes, dont have now time.
> 
> Added some pics..
> 
> G.skill own heatsinks are very bad.. 6400 CL32 mine.
> 
> View attachment 2560570
> 
> View attachment 2560571


hello there, what’s the waterblock you plan to use? Does it needs any mods?

thanks


----------



## z390e

@satinghostrider nice clean looking rig you have there, dig the aesthetics


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900KS 5.2/4.8GHz 7000MHz 30-42-42-28 1T 1.60v VDD 1.50v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.911v SA


----------



## KedarWolf

Raphie said:


> Improving...
> 
> View attachment 2560557
> 
> View attachment 2560558
> 
> View attachment 2560556


Want to shave a full second off your y-cruncher time.

Google how to use GPEDIT to lock pages in memory. y-cruncher loves that!


----------



## Nizzen

Any tests that benefits from 1t vs 2t?


----------



## Ketku-

Mojundo said:


> hello there, what’s the waterblock you plan to use? Does it needs any mods?
> 
> thanks


This is normal 2dimm water block, so thats why not and heatsinks are Ln2. Wont fit straight, others screws fit but others not. Need modify little bit, but not problem


----------



## bscool

Not sure if these are still Hynix but cheapest I have seen them 6000c40 $218 2x16 

I ordered a kit so...........

DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology


----------



## satinghostrider

bscool said:


> Not sure if these are still Hynix but cheapest I have seen them 6000c40 $218 2x16
> 
> I ordered a kit so...........
> 
> DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology


Should be Hynix. If you see ETHH, that's Hynix. It's on the package itself. I'm using one and it clocks quite well. 6800C32 at 1.5V.


----------



## asdkj1740

SoldierRBT said:


> 12900KS 5.2/4.8GHz 7000MHz 30-42-42-28 1T 1.60v VDD 1.50v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.911v SA
> View attachment 2560602


1.25 tx omg.


----------



## asdkj1740

bscool said:


> Not sure if these are still Hynix but cheapest I have seen them 6000c40 $218 2x16
> 
> I ordered a kit so...........
> 
> DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology


218..mine was 360...


----------



## nonamed

So DDR5 produce a lot of heat? Then I wonder if it would be fine to choose top end Gskill or Fury kits (6000-6400) if I will have no chance for any additional airflow in my small sffpc project :? What would You suggest or what clocks/voltage should I be looking for to keep them cool


----------



## asdkj1740

nonamed said:


> So DDR5 produce a lot of heat? Then I wonder if it would be fine to choose top end Gskill or Fury kits (6000-6400) if I will have no chance for any additional airflow in my small sffpc project :? What would You suggest or what clocks/voltage should I be looking for to keep them cool


gskill samsung 6000 kits are not even cool at xmp. 
stop making fun of gskill please.


----------



## Nizzen

nonamed said:


> if I will have no chance for any additional airflow in my small sffpc project


Fix your problem first 
Make it the "how to cool DDR5 in my small sddpc" project


----------



## matique

nonamed said:


> So DDR5 produce a lot of heat? Then I wonder if it would be fine to choose top end Gskill or Fury kits (6000-6400) if I will have no chance for any additional airflow in my small sffpc project :? What would You suggest or what clocks/voltage should I be looking for to keep them cool


I'm using an sffpc, due to proximity of rad fans near the ram it isn't too bad. If temps are not that good you could just add a ram fan.


----------



## Raphie

Regarding fans, if you need to choose between these 3, what would you prefer:

double front intake, the top fan blowing against the outer vertical placed ddr module
lower front intake, top panel exhaust right above the vertical placed ddr modules (so it can create a “tunnel” cooling the modules “in line”
Lower front intake, top panel intake, blowing straight in line to memory modules, so air can move between the modules as well, though, this might cause turbulence, distorting the lower intake?
mounting a fan directly on top of the modules is no option, got a D15 Chromax Black air cooler and there is not enough clearance to squeeze a fan inbetween.
Welcome your thoughts.


----------



## Raphie

side panel off and Noctua FAN full 1300RPM
outer dimm 59c, Inner dimm 60c
Karhu 1000%+ and still going
6600Mhz 1.4v
I'm happy if it makes 8K% coverage


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> side panel off and Noctua FAN full 1300RPM
> outer dimm 59c, Inner dimm 60c
> Karhu 1000%+ and still going
> 6600Mhz 1.4v
> I'm happy if it makes 8K% coverage
> View attachment 2560635


60c with fan direct over Dimms? Ambient is 35c?


----------



## Raphie

Can't do directly over the dimms (d15 Chromax in the way)
so it's the upper intake front fan at full speed
temps settled @ 60.8/59.5
passed 2K now.
Let's be real. After Karhu it will never creep up that far. Will just settle @ 40c under normal load.
I'm looking for a moderate OC, with the sweetspot between increased voltage and Mhz being the goal.
Just before the point of diminishing returns. currently 1.4 6600, 1.5+v for 6800 is to much. Maybe 6666 comes in play.
At least now I know 60c is not yet a heat stability problem, while writing we reached 2500% and counting.


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> Can't do directly over the dimms (d15 Chromax in the way)
> so it's the upper intake front fan at full speed
> temps settled @ 60.8/59.5
> passed 2K now.
> Let's be real. After Karhu it will never creep up that far. Will just settle @ 40c under normal load.
> I'm looking for a moderate OC, with the sweetspot between increased voltage and Mhz being the goal.
> Just before the point of diminishing returns. currently 1.4 6600, 1.5+v for 6800 is to much. Maybe 6666 comes in play.
> At least now I know 60c is not yet a heat stability problem, while writing we reached 2500% and counting.
> 
> View attachment 2560636


what speed are you at now?


----------



## Raphie

6600 1.4v testing 5k%+ coverage in Karhu


----------



## newls1

what are you doing to get your pics big like the ones above?


----------



## Raphie

I'm using the MS snipping tool (Shift + start + s) then the window function, which captures only the selected window


----------



## newls1

your tRRD_S and tFAW are kinda out of wack..... Not that I think its going to make to much of a difference, but have you tried setting tRRD_S =4 and tRRD_L =6 Then make tFAW = 16. Also, bring up your write speeds a little by setting tWRWR_SG to 12


----------



## Raphie

ThnX, like this...


----------



## Raphie

6 crashes @ 1.4v, not worth it to increase. @8 I just did 7000% coverage in Karhu.


----------



## z390e

newls1 said:


> what are you doing to get your pics big like the ones above?


You can also expand pictures you embed by grabbing the edges on this forum. You can shrink them too


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> 6 crashes @ 1.4v, not worth it to increase. @8 I just did 7000% coverage in Karhu.


tRCD and tRP put to 40... Bet anything youll be stable. My sticks CAN NOT GO PAST 6600 with those @ 39, I have to be 40. I also have to have my tCWL @ 30 for past 6600 speeds with my 1.5v. Also, tRDWR_SG/ DG have to be 20 for me. I can use 19, but will eventually error out, 18-17 error like crazy... 20 works for me


----------



## newls1

what is "Intel real timing control"? and should i have this disabled?


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> 6 crashes @ 1.4v, not worth it to increase. @8 I just did 7000% coverage in Karhu.


yeah lack of room for a ram fan will hinder what you can push. 6600c32 can do 50ns latency but need more like 1.45+v and ram cooling. Course those water cooling can run 7000 but mine requires too much volts for air.

ran anta extreme tm5 for 10 minutes which heats ram the most, this is at 1.46v vdd/vddq with 25c ambient temps, without ram fan im at 60c. you can see temps with 90mm fan about 1980rpms


----------



## Raphie

I’m now stable with above settings, 32,39,39 no problem. tfaw being 16, 6 changed back to 8 and trefi 32768. I feel people are pushing the trefi to hard, without any measureable benefit.
above gives Karhu 8000% coverage.
will see if it holds @ 1.39v volt as well
I don’t care to much about the last 5K in AIDA if that needs to bridge dram voltage from 1.4 to 1.5x
MLC says 103k @ 51ns, Unless I can tighten things up further without asking for more voltage I think I’m pretty much there.
all I wanted was AIDA 100K+ <1.4v
Curious what needs to loosen up to allow 1T, which will shave off another 3-5ns


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> I’m now stable with above settings, 32,39,39 no problem. tfaw being 16, 6 changed back to 8 and trefi 32768. I feel people are pushing the trefi to hard, without any measureable benefit.
> above gives Karhu 8000% coverage.
> will see if it holds @ 1.39v volt as well
> I don’t care to much about the last 5K in AIDA if that needs to bridge dram voltage from 1.4 to 1.5x
> MLC says 103k @ 51ns, Unless I can tighten things up further without asking for more voltage I think I’m pretty much there.
> all I wanted was AIDA 100K+ <1.4v
> Curious what needs to loosen up to allow 1T, which will shave off another 3-5ns


64001T is easy on all my ddr5 kits. none of my kits will do 66001T as of yet, not sure if it is my imc/ram/mobo but 66001t definitely on steeper end of curve. havent tried really loose settings as would make the performance not worth it. also need about .02 to .03v more vdd for t1 (not surprising) given latency improvement.


----------



## Raphie

Try these
dram @ 1.4v
CPU stock / auto
SA 1.2v
If you've got the same kit, these settings should work


----------



## Raphie

There you go, with above settings: 6600Mhz @ 1.4v stable, remember, aiming for the sweetspot, just before diminishing returns.
Will now try 6666, see what voltage that needs.


----------



## Raphie

6666 with same settings (32,39,39,28) still @ 1.4v passed Y-cruncher, let's see what Karhu says....


----------



## Raphie

6666 @ 1.4250 is not passing Karhu. craps out @ 700% 
I know the ram is good up to 61c as per my earlier tests today, so must be voltage. 
10% more Mhz (not even performance) is NOT 10% more voltage, I think it will settle somewhere around 1.44 not sure if that's worth the extra voltage)
But still testing, let's where this goes. At least now I know 6800 is definitely out of the question, As regardless of heat, I don't want to toast daily @ 1.5v+


----------



## opt33

you could also try tcl 30 (you already have tcwl 28)


----------



## Raphie

opt33 said:


> you could also try tcl 30 (you already have tcwl 28)


It's very interesting, even with more loose timings, the sticks don't like 1.41+ they crap out in <100% coverage, they didn't even reach 60c
now running 32,40,40,30 @ 1.4v again and 1000%+ still going.
But not sure how these timings perform against the tight 6600 ones, above.


----------



## Nizzen

Testet a bit for fun in Battlefield 2042:


Battlefield 2042 in 1080p with 3090 HOF 1000w bios.
4800xmp with my Dell 4800 ddr5 with 12900k @ 5400mhz all core. ~155 average and drops to ~130fps.

7000c30 max tweaked with the same sticks and same cpu speed @ 5400mhz all core.

~210fps average and drops to ~175fps
Edit: Looks like about 35% gain in fps ...










Just my 10 minute test for fun


----------



## Raphie

2000% no problem. lowering the voltage again


----------



## newls1

told you to go 40 40 hours ago.... my sticks hated 39 39 for anything over 6600...


----------



## Raphie

Yup 

BTW TFAW 18 is faster than 16
shaves off 2ns on latency.


----------



## jomama22

New stable setup on the Kingpin:
7000 30-41-41-28 1T
VDDQ CPU (vddq tx on apex): 1.25v
VDD2(Mem controller voltage on Apex): 1.325v
Ram VDD/VDDQ: 1.6v/1.56v
SA: Auto (~.915v)
cpu @ 5.6/52








Gonna have to believe me that it passes tm5 1usmus as, well, that photo is on my phone. Maybe ill add it later.

More or less the same as @SoldierRBT timings on the Kingpin.


----------



## Raphie

opt33 said:


> 64001T is easy on all my ddr5 kits. none of my kits will do 66001T as of yet, not sure if it is my imc/ram/mobo but 66001t definitely on steeper end of curve. havent tried really loose settings as would make the performance not worth it. also need about .02 to .03v more vdd for t1 (not surprising) given latency improvement.


Read this wrong last night, overlooked the 1T, will try 1T attempts later today.


----------



## Ichirou

7000+ 1T seems to be easier on the EVGA Kingpin compared to other boards. Might be a BIOS thing.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Ichirou said:


> 7000+ 1T seems to be easier on the EVGA Kingpin compared to other boards. Might be a BIOS thing.


Seems like EVGA KP 1T = Apex 2T


----------



## Ichirou

SuperMumrik said:


> Seems like EVGA KP 1T = Apex 2T


It's possible that it's not true 1T. That's always been an issue for a while now. Have to compare with and without 1T to see if there's any actual gain.


----------



## Raphie

MSI got "Real 1N" option in BIOS. Netx to 1N, 2N and AUTO


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> Seems like EVGA KP 1T = Apex 2T


We need a test that shows 1t gain over 2t. Can't see any lower latency with 7000 1t kingpin vs 7000 2t apex. Msi 68001t looks also average.


----------



## Ichirou

Raphie said:


> MSI got "Real 1N" option in BIOS. Netx to 1N, 2N and AUTO


Yep; I saw that in the MSI Edge as well. It's nice to see it as an available option.


----------



## Raphie

So how do I get this on 1T?
2T 1.4v is stable
loosening timings to 32,40,40,30 still not boot, next increased to 1.45v as well still no windows boot.
Suggestions?


----------



## Spit051261

See what this baby can do


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> So how do I get this on 1T?
> 2T 1.4v is stable
> loosening timings to 32,40,40,30 still not boot, next increased to 1.45v as well still no windows boot.
> Suggestions?
> View attachment 2560701


Ive told you a few times already to try changing both tRDWR settings to 20. 17 is to tight i think. I couldnt even POST with 17 @ 6600


----------



## Raphie

just plugged my Viper Steels back in the MSI X299 Raider 7940x, very capable processor that served me well. 
112k no sweat  this is SPD AUTO 4K, not even optimized yet.


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> We need a test that shows 1t gain over 2t. Can't see any lower latency with 7000 1t kingpin vs 7000 2t apex. Msi 68001t looks also average.


Well here's a Geekbench:








Just run one as well and see. This is with ecores disabled.

You can also time 1usmus tm5 run. This is 25 cycle, 33% 1usmus_v3. 5.5/48 p-core only.:









From your posts, you have basically the same timings as I do. The 41 and 42 rcd/rp actually gave me the exact same time in that tm5 shorter run so lol. That run also uses 130560 for trefi, though I don't believe that will affect it much/at all.


----------



## Spit051261

Very nice
What RAM and settings are you using ?
Excellent for geek 3.
Well done


----------



## jomama22

Spit051261 said:


> Very nice
> What RAM and settings are you using ?
> Well done


It's on the last page on the kingpin. @SoldierRBT and myself have basically identical timings on it so if you have a somewhat decent hynix kit, should be pretty easy to obtain. May just have to mess with voltages and twrpre, twrpden, twrrd_sg/dg.


----------



## 7empe

Apex 11/2021, BIOS 1403.

6600 C30 1T.

VDD 1.55V
VDDQ 1.45V
Tx 1.35V
SA 1.10V
MC 1.20V










It seems that it's far from true that VDDQTx needs to be equal with VDD -or- VDDQ on the Apex board. In fact, the Asus auto rule sets Tx to VDD. In my case this lead to instabilities with 1T. If you try to crank voltages up without a success, try going lower than ever before. You may be positively supprised.

Few timings worth special attention:

tWR - on 6400 C28 1T the value of 4 was crucial, 6600 needs more than 4, but probably less than 12 will be still ok
tRFC - doing the overheat test is crucial; in the summer operating DIMM temperature is around 33C while gaming. The overheat test up to 37C needs 100 ns.
tREFI - 195560 is not ok, but 192000 is perfectly fine
tRFCpb - it is very sensitive timing and very hard to spot the errors due to its low value; I leave it on auto as it affects only idle banks so no real performance drop in fact.


----------



## SoldierRBT

7empe said:


> Apex 11/2021, BIOS 1403.
> 
> 6600 C30 1T.
> 
> VDD 1.55V
> VDDQ 1.45V
> Tx 1.35V
> SA 1.10V
> MC 1.20V
> 
> View attachment 2560717
> 
> 
> It seems that it's far from true that VDDQTx needs to be equal with VDD -or- VDDQ on the Apex board. In fact, the Asus auto rule sets Tx to VDD. In my case this lead to instabilities with 1T. If you try to crank voltages up without a success, try going lower than ever before. You may be positively supprised.
> 
> Few timings worth special attention:
> 
> tWR - on 6400 C28 1T the value of 4 was crucial, 6600 needs more than 4, but probably less than 12 will be still ok
> tRFC - doing the overheat test is crucial; in the summer operating DIMM temperature is around 33C while gaming. The overheat test up to 37C needs 100 ns.
> tREFI - 195560 is not ok, but 192000 is perfectly fine
> tRFCpb - it is very sensitive timing and very hard to spot the errors due to its low value; I leave it on auto as it affects only idle banks so no real performance drop in fact.


Nice work. I like to use LinX to make sure IMC likes VDDQ TX voltage set. Keep in mind it's very hot test. I'd wouldn't recommend running LinX with high CPU frequency.


----------



## 7empe

SoldierRBT said:


> Nice work. I like to use LinX to make sure IMC likes VDDQ TX voltage set. Keep in mind it's very hot test. I'd wouldn't recommend running LinX with high CPU frequency.


Thanks. No doubt LinX is great and I've been using it on stock CPU, but now I'm at high adaptive CPU OC. I found that BF2042 is good and nice IMC validator as well ;-)


----------



## Ketku-

7empe said:


> Thanks. No doubt LinX is great and I've been using it on stock CPU, but now I'm at high adaptive CPU OC. I found that BF2042 is good and nice IMC validator as well ;-)


Mate, do you have share the LinX download link? My linx programm missing.


----------



## 7empe

Ketku- said:


> Mate, do you have share the LinX download link? My linx programm missing.











Linpack Xtreme (1.1.5) Download


Linpack is a benchmark and the most aggressive stress testing software available today. Best used to test stability of overclocked PCs. Linpack tends




www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Ichirou

Raphie said:


> So how do I get this on 1T?
> 2T 1.4v is stable
> loosening timings to 32,40,40,30 still not boot, next increased to 1.45v as well still no windows boot.
> Suggestions?
> View attachment 2560701


In my experience, 1T is largely based on RAM binning and BIOS compatibility. Tweaking voltages haven't really changed results.
So if your kit just can't do it, it just can't do it. You could try ramping up VDIMM if you want.


----------



## Gking62

So, just received my G.Skill 6600, suggested settings to start with?
vdd, vddq, VCCSA, MC VDD, TX VDDQ

I ran with 1.25v with my 5600 being Samsung up to now with VCCSA on Auto (1.137v) with total stability at XMP1 & 2, with Hynix its a bit different...

tried 1.425 and 1.435 to no avail, windows freezes, pc resets this with VCCSA on Auto, how high is too high on manual VCCSA?

well after fighting with this, it's going back to the Egg and will stick with my tried and true 5600 set until G.Skill refines further, perhaps I should've tried the 6400 afterall. Honestly, no small wonder so many are overclocking the 6000 and 6400, it seems to me that these high speed sticks still don't appear to be compatible with the current mobo BIOS releases, I could be wrong.

update:
so, 5600 CL36 back in with appropriate 1.25v settings, VCCSA back on Auto, system is rock solid once again, just plain bad 6600 ram? Curious, ram voltage vdd, vddq seemed to be capped to 1.435v on XMP1 and 2, not sure I'm understanding why.


----------



## SuperCloud

matique said:


> As long as the stick is ETM*H *it is hynix. I don't have a unify-x but on unify itx it can do 7000c30 without issue, on Unify X it should do something like 6800-6933 as well.


oh wow, impressive man!! Amazing results. That latency is close to what I achieved with DDR4 4000 CL15 on Gear 1 2T, I got it to 42.3 but bandwidth was around 63-64.

I can't do 7000mhz on Unify-X motherboard? Also, where do I check for ETM*H*? The Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz DDR5 CL40 should be Sk Hynix right? They aren't using any other module?

Thank you for the information and results!!


----------



## opt33

you can do 7000c30 on unify x (probably easier on itx with shorter traces), but need binned ram/water cooled or cherry kit at lower volts. 7000c30 on one of my kits needs 1.64vdd to bench at room temp but to run TM5 for even few minutes need 1.67vdd and outside winter air (to simulate water cooling load temps) or will error from high temps.

When 7000 kits are available and with lower voltages will get a better sense of mobo/imc capabilities.


----------



## glnn_23

Testing here 6900 c32 39 39 28 1T. 
12900k, z690i Unify itx, G.Skill 6400
120mm fan over dimms


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

glnn_23 said:


> Testing here 6900 c32 39 39 28 1T.
> 12900k, z690i Unify itx, G.Skill 6400
> 120mm fan over dimms


Thats a great board. I have been checking it out. Just I have 905p intel optane thats stopping me.


----------



## MrFox

Hey guys. Does anyone here know how to change the GUI of this newer version of TM5 to English? The MT.cfg file already has Language=0.


----------



## asdkj1740

at your own risk.






Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com




new msi beta bios 17/5
pro a - a41
pro a wifi - a41
edge wifi - h41
edge ti wifi -m41
force - a41
carbon - 143
ace - 143
itx unify - 141

ps. edge ti (d4 & d5) seems to be china specific models, do not mess up with edge.








腾讯微云







share.weiyun.com




special bios 16/5
itx unify - 132u5


----------



## Raphie

No Unify-X yet…


----------



## sblantipodi

Is there in any sense that some of the problems I have on 4 sticks at 5.2GHz can be mitigated by lowering the MCV from 1.25V to 1.20V?


----------



## 7empe

sblantipodi said:


> Is there in any sense that some of the problems I have on 4 sticks at 5.2GHz can be mitigated by lowering the MCV from 1.25V to 1.20V?


Yes, there is. Too low = bad, too high = bad. The "too high" may be a matter of 20 mV or so.


----------



## sblantipodi

7empe said:


> Yes, there is. Too low = bad, too high = bad. The "too high" may be a matter of 20 mV or so.


I tought that this was true when the MVC was set around 1.3V.

never tought about this at 1.25V... my bad.


----------



## leonman44

My stuff just came:

















But I already have an issue , Monarch heat sinks won’t cover the entire memory module , how much of an issue is this ? Will it impact my cooling performance? Is there something I can do?


----------



## 7empe

leonman44 said:


> My stuff just came:
> 
> View attachment 2560873
> 
> View attachment 2560874
> 
> But I already have an issue , Monarch heat sinks won’t cover the entire memory module , how much of an issue is this ? Will it impact my cooling performance? Is there something I can do?


Not an issue at all. Performance not affected. Heat will find the way out


----------



## leonman44

7empe said:


> Not an issue at all. Performance not affected. Heat will find the way out


 Oh ok , nice !


----------



## Raphie

Downgraded from A3 to A2, Finally 1T in the house! only requires 1.42v to get Karhu 1000% coverage, so maybe i need an addtional 0,015 to get to 10.000% coverage, maybe not even, we'll see. Cool and Fast!  Keep the TREFI low and save myself an additional 0.1v on the ram. Not worth it for that extra 1000 in AIDA
EDIT: Not stable, Karhu stop between 200 - 1500
Can Y-crunch though, went up in voltage to 1.44 no difference
increased tRFC to 340, no difference
went for 32,40,40,30 no difference
suggestions welcome! 
SA tried Auto <> 1.2 <> 1.25


----------



## leonman44

Installed my Monarchs it’s a Very nice upgrade vs the stock heatsinks now I get max 65c at 1,37V without active cooling vs 80c , and no heat spikes.

is there a way to disable RGB just for my ram sticks ?
At Rog armoury I have to disable all the rgb components just to do that and I no longer need the rgb it only adds heat.


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> Downgraded from A3 to A2, Finally 1T in the house! only requires 1.42v to get Karhu 1000% coverage, so maybe i need an addtional 0,015 to get to 10.000% coverage, maybe not even, we'll see. Cool and Fast!  Keep the TREFI low and save myself an additional 0.1v on the ram. Not worth it for that extra 1000 in AIDA
> EDIT: Not stable, Karhu stop between 200 - 1500
> Can Y-crunch though, went up in voltage to 1.44 no difference
> increased tRFC to 340, no difference
> went for 32,40,40,30 no difference
> suggestions welcome!
> SA tried Auto <> 1.2 <> 1.25


I had better luck on earlier bioses as well, currently testing most recent.

For T1 vs T2 at same frequency I needed .03v higher vdd/vddq but also .03v higher cpu vdd2 (mem controller). yours may be mem controller voltage.


----------



## bscool

leonman44 said:


> Installed my Monarchs it’s a Very nice upgrade vs the stock heatsinks now I get max 65c at 1,37V without active cooling vs 80c , and no heat spikes.
> 
> is there a way to disable RGB just for my ram sticks ?
> At Rog armoury I have to disable all the rgb components just to do that and I no longer need the rgb it only adds heat.


Gskill software lets you run off ram lighting on their memory.

*








Download - Trident Z Family (RGB, Neo, Royal, Royal Elite, Z5 RGB) Lighting Control Software - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


G.SKILL




www.gskill.com




*


----------



## Raphie

@opt33 Ahh ThnX I didn't look at those, my timings should be ok then?
can you post a dragonball of Karhu stable 6600-1T?


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> @opt33 Ahh ThnX I didn't look at those, my timings should be ok then?
> can you post a dragonball of Karhu stable 6600-1T?


my kit not same as yours, worse bin and will not do 66001T, 64001T is max for 1T. For 6400 2T I need 1.28 cpu vdd2, for 6400 1T I need 1.31 cpu vdd2. But relative voltage scaling should be similar going from 66002T to 66001T, though absolute requirements will depend on imc/ram etc.


----------



## sugi0lover

Dark Kingpin Ram OC posted : 7200 CL30


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Dark Kingpin Ram OC posted : 7200 CL30
> View attachment 2560971


Shoving 1.65v down the memory controller does not seem worth it lol


----------



## Ketku-

leonman44 said:


> Installed my Monarchs it’s a Very nice upgrade vs the stock heatsinks now I get max 65c at 1,37V without active cooling vs 80c , and no heat spikes.
> 
> is there a way to disable RGB just for my ram sticks ?
> At Rog armoury I have to disable all the rgb components just to do that and I no longer need the rgb it only adds heat.


Ln2 Bitspower here, without water block yet because need mod screws and make new Custom Loop pipes.. But alone with new heatsinks 1hour Tm5 Extreme run 33-35c each RAM. So why you have so high temps?


----------



## Nizzen

jomama22 said:


> Shoving 1.65v down the memory controller does not seem worth it lol


Why?
Dimms will live easy until next generation anyway....

Or did you mean MC voltage? Is that vdd2 on Kingpin? That's pretty high LOL


----------



## Nizzen

leonman44 said:


> Installed my Monarchs it’s a Very nice upgrade vs the stock heatsinks now I get max 65c at 1,37V without active cooling vs 80c , and no heat spikes.
> 
> is there a way to disable RGB just for my ram sticks ?
> At Rog armoury I have to disable all the rgb components just to do that and I no longer need the rgb it only adds heat.


Without heatsinks it's impossible to reach that high dimm temps. Something is wrong... most likely it's throwing errors after 65c too..
Plastic on thermalpads? LOL
Try naked dimms too see temps


----------



## Raphie

opt33 said:


> my kit not same as yours, worse bin and will not do 66001T, 64001T is max for 1T. For 6400 2T I need 1.28 cpu vdd2, for 6400 1T I need 1.31 cpu vdd2. But relative voltage scaling should be similar going from 66002T to 66001T, though absolute requirements will depend on imc/ram etc.


What is CPU VDD? I only see RAM VDD? and the 2nd one follows the first one?


----------



## leonman44

Ketku- said:


> Ln2 Bitspower here, without water block yet because need mod screws and make new Custom Loop pipes.. But alone with new heatsinks 1hour Tm5 Extreme run 33-35c each RAM. So why you have so high temps?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560976


my ambient temp is about 25-27c and it will get worse , I have a bottom 360mm Fat rad for intake push/pull config and a 40mm top rad for exhaust therefore inside the case must be positive pressure and the air hitting those rams is hot. My 12900k is also lava 80-90c will definitely change the thermal paste and put some liquid metal to drop that.

What is your ambient temp ? Also these temps are under stress testing with vcruncher.


----------



## leonman44

Nizzen said:


> Without heatsinks it's impossible to reach that high dimm temps. Something is wrong... most likely it's throwing errors after 65c too..
> Plastic on thermalpads? LOL
> Try naked dimms too see temps


That was with stock heatsinks, I did a careful monarchs install now pulled the plastic off on both sides , lol it would melt like cheese.
Also installed a 0,5mm thermal pad on the Pmic. 65c is the max I saw during the stress test and the heat would increase slowly and steady.

1.45v 6200mhz still doing it’s crazy things , one boot is fully stable the other is right away not even before getting warm. Maybe it’s a mobo bug issue , maybe the Rams are trash I don’t know but it’s causing me so much pain so many months now. I could do 6000mhz 36/36/36/65 2T with 1,37v no issues with oldheatsinks even hitting that 80c with no errors.

I will have to uninstall my custom loop on the weekend to install this Corsair aircooler I bought , paste my cpu with liquid metal and then check if there’s any significant difference.


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> What is CPU VDD? I only see RAM VDD? and the 2nd one follows the first one?


I assume you have hit F7 once in bios and in advanced mode, so all the voltages are together and becomes the default mode then to overclocking module middle left. easy mode is a mess and shouldnt exist.

SA voltage, cpu vddq (transmitter voltage) and cpu vdd2 (mem controller voltage) are all close together and just several lines above the dram vdd/dram vddq volts. cpu vddq does fine on auto usually stays around 1.37 on auto, I just manually put in same voltage as auto. if you left cpu vdd2 on auto it is already probably high.


----------



## Raphie

ThnX, yes I'm always in advanced mode, but I leave these normally all on auto
I've tried playing with them but not joy.
T2 I've got 6600 & 6666 stable @ 1.42v and 1.43v
I'm now 6400 XMP 1T with SA 1.25 and 1.43v to see if I can esthablish a baseline with loose timings, as I don't understand what's causing the 1T Karhu errors
6600 1T, once stable, would give me below, which I would be happy with

EDIT: XMP 1T @ 1.43v craps out as well in Karhu.


----------



## IronAge

EVO V


Exclusive Active Dual Fan Cooling System Speed up to 6800MHz one-click overclocking Outstanding performance, remarkable quality, and high stability Use high quality IC and Tested with DYNA5 SLT Exclusive Optimized RGB Illumination Design All purchases are guaranteed a limited lifetime warranty



www.geil.com.tw





these are epic - first time memory modules with integrated tiny fans. 🤣


----------



## db000

The new 2DIMM WB have now arrived for the Apex. Acetal and Copper. Overkill with copper block and copper heatsinks, but damn, it looks good!  
Bartx ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐


----------



## Raphie

This is my big question as well. All those 1T 66/6800 shots are they Karhu 10.000% coverage stable?
I don't care if it completes benches, or TM5 memtest etc. Karhu is the only one to beat, the most critical that counts IMHO. If it doesn't pass Karhu it's not stable. 



morph. said:


> Yeah its why I want to get tREFI up to at least 65535... And that's why I have my VDD/VDDQ cranked up to 1.5v (mind you I'm running a 4 slot mobo Maximus Formula)... But still pushing tREFI too far (past 40535) at this stage seems to present a karhu error.
> 
> I'll look at lowering my TX/SA in the near future just trying to work out what's causing the Karhu error when my tREFI errors on 45535 or higher, I don't believe its temperature-related either cause it errors out pretty quickly.
> 
> My latest run with 6400% Karhu coverage stable:
> View attachment 2557512


----------



## Nizzen

db000 said:


> The new 2DIMM WB have now arrived for the Apex. Acetal and Copper. Overkill with copper block and copper heatsinks, but damn, it looks good!
> Bartx ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
> 
> View attachment 2561005
> View attachment 2561006


Nice!
I hope you test it with and without water. Looks to be pretty good "passive" cooled too


----------



## leonman44

Oh no , i continue to have these random spike 80c readings , is it just software issue or something bad happens? Very weird both dimms are almost the same temperature every time i monitor the value.


----------



## z390e

80c on DIMM does not seem correct, imo.


----------



## Nizzen

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2561019
> 
> 
> Oh no , i continue to have these random spike 80c readings , is it just software issue or something bad happens? Very weird both dimms are almost the same temperature every time i monitor the value.


Use newest hwinfo64 beta


----------



## leonman44

Nizzen said:


> Use newest hwinfo64 beta


It was the Software!










Could make the 6200mhz stable again at 1.42v by reducing the SA to 1v , 1.20v was too high tried 1.25v and made my whole system unstable then tried with 1,4v for ram: 0,9v sa , 1v and 1.1v all three would error me at the vst stage so i kept the middle value and bumped my voltage from 1,4v to 1,42v , did three passes on three different boots , i believe it will be fine but will retest 1 time every day to make sure. I dont think i can make 6400mhz stable with that timmings and generally 6400mhz with this kits even after installing the aircooling. Doesnt more voltage make you more unstable after a certain point?


----------



## Raphie

MrFox said:


> MSI Dragon Ball is not compatible with EVGA motherboards. I haven't tried it on Z690, but it hasn't worked on Z490 or Z590 Dark. Only EVGA Eleet seems to work correctly for in-Windows tuning. I have found the same to be true with some other things and it think it is how the EC is implemented.


You need the .10 not the .08 version posted here. The .10 is linked properly earlier in this thread.


----------



## jomama22

Raphie said:


> You need the .10 not the .08 version posted here. The .10 is linked properly earlier in this thread.


.10 (on page 204 for those wondering) does NOT work on the kingpin 

Should be noted you can use memTweakIt to change timings in the OS (specifically trfcPB which is needed).


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> This is my big question as well. All those 1T 66/6800 shots are they Karhu 10.000% coverage stable?
> I don't care if it completes benches, or TM5 memtest etc. Karhu is the only one to beat, the most critical that counts IMHO. If it doesn't pass Karhu it's not stable.


Trying 6600c32 T1 again, so far karhu 1000%, passed tm5 for 15 mins, but going to walk voltage down and improve latency then try longer runs later tonight after work. 

Trying newls1 32-40 (only tried 32-39 before) and never tried 6600t1 on A2 bios (after failing on earlier bios). Interestingly the A3 bioses wont post 6600 t1 regardless of settings, whereas A2 everything I try posts/boots no issue. 

Since I need ~1.45vdd for 6400c32 T1 or 6600c32 T2, I know 1.48-1.49vdd/vddq is minimum my lower binned ram needs for 6600t1. Starting with 1.50 vdd/vddq, 1.2 sa, 1.36 cpu vdd2, 1.38 cpu vddq.


----------



## Raphie

Yes, try Karhu 20.000% coverage
people cry because it randomly can crap out @ 5000% as easily as well
Basically err <500% you're way off with voltage/settings
1000% you're pretty solid on settings, but voltages still need to prove themselves > ballpark potential
8000% you're 99.7% "there"


----------



## Raphie

I could not get 1T stable, it crapped out continously < 2000% coverage
So if you crack the code, I'll be eternally grateful 
Though 2T is as fast and can do this with 1.415v


----------



## CptSpig

Raphie said:


> This is my big question as well. All those 1T 66/6800 shots are they Karhu 10.000% coverage stable?
> I don't care if it completes benches, or TM5 memtest etc. Karhu is the only one to beat, the most critical that counts IMHO. If it doesn't pass Karhu it's not stable.


You mean like this?


----------



## Raphie

No, 1025% should be 20.000% 
Still a lot can happen between 1000 < 5000%


----------



## opt33

Raphie said:


> I could not get 1T stable, it crapped out continously < 2000% coverage
> So if you crack the code, I'll be eternally grateful
> Though 2T is as fast and can do this with 1.415v


mine erred at 2800% just under 40 mins. Back when I first got the ram had random late errors 6600t1 that didnt respond to setting/voltage changes including final straw of an error after 4 hours on overnight run. Bumping voltage and loosening settings to what should easily work, and if fails again, then ill wait on better ram....just too near a component limit on air.


----------



## Raphie

Exactly my problem, maybe that's the reason why it no longer boots at all on >1.2x
I went back to 1.31 in my A slot, will try tinkering further with 1.2 in by B slot
the OC user slots are not exchangeable so want to setup both in parallel
@CptSpig has promising settings on the ROG for my RAM, curious if he passes above 8000% coverage at least. Then I would be really interested in those setting as I read 1.47v Which is about the maximum I want to run for daily.


----------



## CptSpig

Raphie said:


> @CptSpig has promising settings on the ROG for my RAM, curious if he passes above 8000% coverage at least. Then I would be really interested in those setting as I read 1.47v Which is about the maximum I want to run for daily.


Attached are the timings I use for both CR1 and CR2. Also attached is 7000 CR2. Note the RLT's and temp's on air.


----------



## Raphie

Thank You! will try 

Here is a 6666-2T @ only requires 1.42v Karhu stable, heat wise 2T seems the better deal, but I want 1T just because it's there


----------



## Raphie

people advised met to put a fan directly on the ram
internal FAN 63c While running Karhu
Brute force external fan 52c 

Edit: down to 49c even


----------



## morph.

CptSpig said:


> You mean like this?
> View attachment 2561030


IMHO unless it is at least 6400% coverage pass it's hard for me to take that as stable with karhu other than for light office and browser application use.


----------



## morph.

Raphie said:


> This is my big question as well. All those 1T 66/6800 shots are they Karhu 10.000% coverage stable?
> I don't care if it completes benches, or TM5 memtest etc. Karhu is the only one to beat, the most critical that counts IMHO. If it doesn't pass Karhu it's not stable.


Yeah some what agree as long as it gets to that 6400% coverage I'm happy a lot of ppl just do quick passes here and throw screenshots up and hey everyone has different stability requirements and a lot of things don't crash with quick passes but then again pending on the type of workloads or games you play you can come into a lot of intermittent instability issues CTD or hard crashes if it's not tuned properly. I still would like to dial my trefi up more but can't seem to and haven't really had the time and motivation to since my latest but its been pretty rock stable and id be chasing minimal gains with my current 6400 tightenings... id like to take it up a notch but cbfd at this stage.


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> Yeah some what agree as long as it gets to that 6400% coverage I'm happy a lot of ppl just do quick passes here and throw screenshots up and hey everyone has different stability requirements and a lot of things don't crash with quick passes but then again pending on the type of workloads or games you play you can come into a lot of intermittent instability issues CTD or hard crashes if it's not tuned properly. I still would like to dial my trefi up more but can't seem to and haven't really had the time and motivation to since my latest but its been pretty rock stable and id be chasing minimal gains with my current 6400 tightenings... id like to take it up a notch but cbfd at this stage.


If it's 3 hours Battlefield 2042 128 player stable, it's pretty much stable in my oppinion.
Ctd in Bf 2042 is unstable cpu. Dx error is unstable memory. Nice stabilitytest right there. More fun than ramtest LOL


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> If it's 3 hours Battlefield 2042 128 player stable, it's pretty much stable in my oppinion.
> Ctd in Bf 2042 is unstable cpu. Dx error is unstable memory. Nice stabilitytest right there. More fun than ramtest LOL


I for one don't play bf2042 but I know warzone crashes ALOT when stuff is unstable and in my camp people don't like impacting the W/L or rank or sweaty kd ratios from crashing out so ramtest would come first while "wfh" haha before playing  And last thing in a battle royale game is crashing out when you are deep into the final few players as well


----------



## bscool

I got the Kingston 6000c40 2x16 I paid $217 for today.

So far cant get them 7000c32 Karhu stable like gskill 6400c32 can but for the price I am satified.

6933c32 Karhu and y cruncher

7400c32 GB3

2022 Apex bios 1503 u code 15

12900k 52/49

Arctic 420 AIO


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> I for one don't play bf2042 but I know warzone crashes ALOT when stuff is unstable and in my camp people don't like impacting the W/L or rank or sweaty kd ratios from crashing out so ramtest would come first while "wfh" haha before playing  And last thing in a battle royale game is crashing out when you are deep into the final few players as well


Make a benchmark/stability account LOL
"Killed by InStability" 🤟


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> Make a benchmark/stability account LOL
> "Killed by InStability" 🤟


lol


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> Dark Kingpin Ram OC posted : 7200 CL30
> View attachment 2560971


legit pch temp lol.


----------



## asdkj1740

bscool said:


> I got the Kingston 6000c40 2x16 I paid $217 for today.
> 
> So far cant get them 7000c32 Karhu stable like gskill 6400c32 can but for the price I am satified.
> 
> 6933c32 Karhu and y cruncher
> 
> 7400c32 GB3
> 
> 2022 Apex bios 1503 u code 15
> 
> 12900k 52/49
> 
> Arctic 420 AIO


I'm dying...217...................


--------------------
20/5/22 msi beta bios





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com





torpedo - a41
unify x - a42
tomahawk - h41


----------



## asdkj1740

these seem to be new)) 
the voltages are insane. maybe in the near future we shall need no more than 1.5v to reach 7000mhz~7200mhz instead of 1.65v.











we used to see a lot of 1.5v~1.6v kits


----------



## Raphie

Damn, just added all my OC‘s to A31 last night 
plugging in numbers all over again tonight
can I dream of stable 1T?


----------



## Raphie

A42 is faster  but still as peculiar around 1T 
But so far so good
for me 6600 2T > done! 1.410v
6666 2T > done! 1.425v
now working my way down from the “memory try it” 6800 profile
which is interesting, as it had got really loose timings, it performs worse than my 6600 2t profile, but it does it @ 1.35!!! Volt.
So lets see what tightening up brings and how much increase is needed to outperform 6666 on latency & bandwidth.
Goal is to tighten up to 1.48v 
I’m not interested in >1.5v for daily yet.


----------



## ChaosAD

Today I'm getting, hopefully, my 6600 kit. What's the best way to test it with my apex? Load defaults and set xmp or manually input settings in bios. First and most important is to test if I have a faulty apex and then test for stability.


----------



## Spit051261

Kingpin Dark Z690 and G7400 on Phase
Not the best mem settings but I had take care of BCLK .
The DARK is easy for overlocking, especially on BCLK.


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> Why?
> Dimms will live easy until next generation anyway....
> 
> Or did you mean MC voltage? Is that vdd2 on Kingpin? That's pretty high LOL


Yeah, meant memory controller (vdd2 on kingpin)


----------



## Nelfhunt

This is mine mem OC, so far rock stable base either in games, benchmarks or tests.
MSI Z690i Unify ITX, stock 12900K (Pcores-91, measured on 2021 APEX, which is useless other than that)
6800 32-40-40-28
Memory VDD/VDDQ 1.48V/1.48V
CPU VDDQ (TX) 1.4V
CPU VDD2 (MC) 1.35V
CPU SA 1.2V
Configured as a silent gaming PC in the bedroom.


----------



## CptSpig

morph. said:


> IMHO unless it is at least 6400% coverage pass it's hard for me to take that as stable with karhu other than for light office and browser application use.


Light use? I use this computer to bench mark and play games like FarCry 6 and Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts 2 with no issues. I think you are splitting hairs with your perception of stability.


----------



## Raphie

I need help with my 6800 settings (setup in my sig)
Karhu errors between 3000% <> 5000% randomly, currently still going @ 4100%
I've got forced cooling maxing the ram sensors @ 55c
Increased my SA to 1.25 (started @ 1.2) which improved from error <1.000% to error <5000%
Pretty loose timings which can be worked down later. Any suggestions?
increasing ram voltage up to 1.5v will BDOD @ 1.5v
running 1.485 runs fine < 5000%
Help me crack the code pls 

Also my tRTL's are dynamic being 64 @ 6600/6666, but jump to 65 @ 6800 is that normal?


----------



## KedarWolf

DvL Ax3l said:


> What the hell is doing GeIL?!! DDR5 with active cooling?!! Are you serious?!! 😂
> 
> The best part is how they named this cooling solution:
> 
> The EVO V has established a new standard in heat shield design as we have created an active dual-fan “FANtastic” cooling system to keep EVO V within an ideal thermal range
> 
> GeIL EVO V site


----------



## Raphie

Need help guys....


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Need help guys....
> 
> View attachment 2561194


Temperature under control?


----------



## Raphie

55c max see HWinfo in above post (SPD value)


----------



## CptSpig

Raphie said:


> 55c max see HWinfo in above post (SPD value)


Looks like random thermal errors. When watching temps while using Memtest86, Karhu or TM5 I get errors around 45c. My max temp. is 28.5c at 7000 with 1.605v VDD. You need to get the temps down.


----------



## Raphie

are your modules WC?


----------



## CptSpig

Raphie said:


> are your modules WC?


No, look at the picture of my machine. Just a small fan.


----------



## Raphie

While running Karhu your modules stay at 29c under full load? @ 1.485v? 
How do you do that?
29c idle I can see, but full load?


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> While running Karhu your modules stay at 29c under full load? @ 1.485v?
> How do you do that?
> 29c idle I can see, but full load?


He has coretemp 11c minimum.... Looks like outside in Norway temperature 😅


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> He has coretemp 11c minimum.... Looks like outside in Norway temperature 😅


god i wish i had those temps year round. 94f out now


----------



## KedarWolf

newls1 said:


> god i wish i had those temps year round. 94f out now


Last summer in Canada we only hit 118F/47C, I mean that's fine, right?

On a side note, in summer I keep my A/C a bit chilly. I need to take hot baths to warm up. And I don't even turn the A/C on until I get home from work. :/


----------



## CptSpig

Raphie said:


> While running Karhu your modules stay at 29c under full load? @ 1.485v?
> How do you do that?
> 29c idle I can see, but full load?


Ambient room temperature 18-19c. Voltage is 1.605 VDD and 1.515 VDDQ. Got to be the APEX  Open bench is the way to go if overclocking.


----------



## Spit051261

Definately an open bench .....Not too sure about Apex mind.


----------



## sugi0lover

64GB DDR5 OC posted (32GB x 2)
6400 30-38-38-28-2T / VDD, VDDQ, TX 1.38v (120mm fan + EK Ram Cover)
Some points he mentioned
 : Unlike 16G Module, 32G Module seems unstable at 1.5v+
: Unlike 16G Modue, 32G Module requires a lot higher MC. For 6400Mhz, MC 1.4v is needed to be stable
: Cover speed is faster than 16G Module at the same clock.


----------



## Spit051261

I don't understand why MEM score is not higher ?
Running 7000 CL31 1T and memory score seems lower than it should be .
Ideas ?


----------



## Spit051261

Getting a bit better at just over 7100 but thought the MEM score would be higher


----------



## Bexak

Spit051261 said:


> I don't understand why MEM score is not higher ?
> Running 7000 CL31 1T and memory score seems lower than it should be .
> Ideas ?
> View attachment 2561285


RAM unstable? DDR5 has ECC on die, so it'll run without crashing sometimes even if unstable.


----------



## Raphie

I’m giving up on 6800 for now, after a day of Karhu, it started spitting out errors randomly after minutes that survived 2h before earlier on the day. Also prior settings not surviving on bios 1.42, so I’m going back to bios 1.2 (the one that boots 1T as well) and fully obliterate the BIOS training tables. Next to a flash, what is the best way to fully wipe the BIOS? Beyond F6 Optimized defaults? Jumper? Rear switch?

Also does the dual A/B switch allow you to flash 2 BIOSses in 2 slots and the switch determines which one boots?
then I might try slot B for 1.2 and save my userslots in 1.42 for further tinkering when I’m feeling a bit more positive.
I like the tweaking, but man, change, test, reboot, disappointment, little succes, 1 step forward, 2 steps back kind of thing wears me out, 
the most anoying being Settings that survived 1h Karhu before, randomly not even posting. Giving an F1 to BIOS screen. Then loading optimized defaults, complete a boot. Load the same settings again and they boot?!? What’s going on? Something is messed up. Board needs retraining from virgin state.


----------



## Nizzen

Spit051261 said:


> Getting a bit better at just over 7100 but thought the MEM score would be higher
> View attachment 2561287


Show us subtimings

7200 tweaked should be about 15k points memory multicore


----------



## Spit051261

I will get back to you on that.
Just swapped over to AMD graphics for a bit of fun with that .
I will work it out .
Thanks for the help.
You guys are great .
paul


----------



## Raphie

Word of warning: Unify-X 1.42 is wonky. Did a complete wipe/reset and reflash. Boots 4800SPD, randomly refuses to boot even XMP 6400
Went back to 1.31, boots flawless (10x) After burning a day yesterday pulling my hair out, stay away from 1.42 unless you like BIOS escape rooms.


----------



## ChaosAD

Quick test this morning with Apex (1101 bios) and Gskill 6600c34 kit. Max bootable 6666 with VDD/VDDQ 1.48v, SA 1.25v, MC 1.30v. At 6800 I get boot loop. Is this the board limit or I need more vdimm?


----------



## bscool

2022 Apex Bios 1304 u code 15

12900k 52/49

Arctic 420 AIO

7000c30-40-40


----------



## Raphie

Finally, after losing a day on bios 1.42, I'm back to stable 6600Mhz on BIOS 1.31
Left all voltages on auto (incl. DDR) seemed to work just fine 
A validated baseline to work from.
Also GB5 as high on 6600 as on 6666


----------



## jomama22

bscool said:


> 2022 Apex Bios 1304 u code 15
> 
> 12900k 52/49
> 
> Arctic 420 AIO
> 
> 7000c30-40-40


More or less confirms there may be a small uplift with the Kingpin and 1T as opposed to those who say it performs worse. With very similar timings, this is my Geekbench and Aida:

















In my testing, each step of 100mhz in ring is about 40 pts in multicore memory score.


----------



## SuperMumrik

jomama22 said:


> More or less confirms there may be a small uplift with the Kingpin and 1T as opposed to those who say it performs worse. With very similar timings, this is my Geekbench and Aida:


I can't see that uplift(I'm not saying it's any worse). Your high cpu and ring speed are driving that memory score somewhat.

I'm at work offshore atm, but I might have a screen with more matching clocks on my laptop 🤔

EDIT: Added an old screen, but only 5.3 core and 5.0 ring on this.


----------



## jomama22

SuperMumrik said:


> I can't see that uplift(I'm not saying it's any worse). Your high cpu and ring speed are driving that memory score somewhat.
> 
> I'm at work offshore atm, but I might have a screen with more matching clocks on my laptop 🤔
> 
> EDIT: Added an old screen, but only 5.3 core and 5.0 ring on this.
> 
> View attachment 2561374


Raw CPU clock speed doesn't change bandwidth or latency much, if at all. I tested ring changes in gb3 and as I said, only a 40 pts difference in multi core memory score for each 100mhz.

Aida isn't even the bench I'm concerned with, it's GB3 since let's be honest, Aida doesn't translate to performance much. It's a good quick comparison but that's about the extent of it.


----------



## Raphie

Why not GB5?


----------



## SuperMumrik

jomama22 said:


> Raw CPU clock speed doesn't change bandwidth or latency much, if at all


Not by much, but it does drive down the latency 



jomama22 said:


> Aida isn't even the bench I'm concerned with, it's GB3 since let's be honest, Aida doesn't translate to performance much


That's fair enough. I got some decent gb3 memory scores, but I can't remember what cpu and memory frequencies that's been used since they're quite old at this point


----------



## jomama22

SuperMumrik said:


> Not by much, but it does drive down the latency
> 
> 
> 
> That's fair enough. I got some decent gb3 memory scores, but I can't remember what cpu and memory frequencies that's been used since they're quite old at this point


So went ahead and did an aida and gb3 with each of the frequency/cache settings for both (5.2/49, 5.3/50) as well as re-ran mine at 56/53 (just to have the same system up. Didn't keep clicking any of the aida runs, just did "test memory only" once.

5.2/49:

















5.3/50:

















5.6/53:

















Kinda shows how little aida really matters for a lot of real world benches. There is also the odd issue where the KS on my (and @SoldierRBT) Apex saw a drop of 1GBPS in read, write and copy, as well as ~.7 ns increase in latency when using aida. GB3 and such stayed the same. We posted about this back a few pages or so. Not sure if that affect is seen on the Kingpin.


----------



## SuperMumrik

jomama22 said:


> So went ahead and did an aida and gb3 with each of the frequency/cache settings for both (5.2/49, 5.3/50) as well as re-ran mine at 56/53 (just to have the same system up


Nice chip you got there.
Those gb3 scores looks pretty familiar tbh. If there is any difference, it's really, really small..


----------



## jomama22

SuperMumrik said:


> Nice chip you got there.
> Those gb3 scores looks pretty familiar tbh. If there is any difference, it's really, really small..


Yeah, I can't imagine it is anything meaningful at all. Before I got the Kingpin I had a suspicion that it may be using some sort of cmd_stretch for it's 1T. I wouldn't be surprised that hidden memory timings are set conservatively to allow "1T" operation at these higher frequencies. 

Would more or less just equate apex 2T to kingpin 1T with a +-1% or something.


----------



## Raphie

6666 passed as well, though the 40,40 not being faster than the 39,39 @ 6600
But at least another validated baseline profile to work from


----------



## SoldierRBT

7100MHz 30-42-42-28 1T 1.65v VDD 1.55v VDDQ 1.325v CPU VDDQ 1.45v VDD2 0.911v SA. Max temp 35C
AIDA bandwidth is probably bugged. Need better sticks for 7200 1T


----------



## Spit051261

Run GB3 with those settings


----------



## SoldierRBT

Spit051261 said:


> Run GB3 with those settings


Here's same settings


----------



## leonman44

Trying to install my ram aircooler but it needs some of the custom loop to be uninstalled and recreate new cpu tubbing.

Just want to ask you two things guys:

1)
















Do you find the cpu mount ok ? Will install liquid metal this time.

2) found this brown dirt on my tubing and on the o-rings.

















I am using deionized water + inhibitor + biocide from mayhem , I don’t see anything on my cpu or four block , is this something I should worry about?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT




----------



## leonman44

2 90s on a tube was a bit too hard for me but in the end i managed to do it.

With this cooler i stay easily below 60s i can say that i am finally satisfied with the cooling but will see how further will this let me push my ram.

For cpu it spikes too high , its better than thermal paste , i gained around 5c but i dont think its worth the risk and cleaning the liquid metal is jusat pain and it wont come off completely. Its simply unmanageable.


----------



## Raphie

6800 Karhu stable on air....


----------



## leonman44

Bumped tREFI and shaved my timmings a bit more , it noticeably scored better , best benchmark i got so far , previously i couldnt do that stable at all , any idea what to change next? 1.43v is the max stable voltage that scales , if i unlock the pmic for higher voltage it makes me unstable even 1.45v.


----------



## bscool

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2561577
> 
> View attachment 2561578
> 
> Bumped tREFI and shaved my timmings a bit more , it noticeably scored better , best benchmark i got so far , previously i couldnt do that stable at all , any idea what to change next? 1.43v is the max stable voltage that scales , if i unlock the pmic for higher voltage it makes me unstable even 1.45v.


It could be you need to set ivr vddq in the advance memory tab lower than vdd/vddq. I have 1 cpu that works better doing that. 3 others CPUs dont seem to care if running all 3 equal.

Example 1.5v vdd/vddq and 1.45v vdqq tx.


----------



## Salvadv2004

Falkentyne said:


> Micron OC è possibile.
> 
> View attachment 2531015
> 
> [/CITAZIONE]
> Puoi condividere le impostazioni del tuo BI





Falkentyne said:


> Micron OC is possible.
> 
> View attachment 2531015


Can you share your bios settings?
I have set 5400 34 39 39 44 and on aida i have 76ns. Can i do better in your opinion? I have a z690 aorus pro and an i7 12700k


----------



## Spit051261

SoldierRBT said:


> Here's same settings
> View attachment 2561455


Nice


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Hey guys I need some help to tweak my setup!.

First here's the breakdown

12900K 5.1P/4.0E/(All core) Ring 4.0 (Barley makes a difference for me from the stock 3.6-4.7. Running 4x16 TeamGroup 6400C40 @ 5400 C36-36-36-72 1.35V. (It's because I'm populating all the Dimm slots I can boot at 5800 but aida64 stability will warn memory is unstable. .9SystemAgent apparently my CPU doesn't like anything higher. 1.250 Memory Controller Voltage running Z690 Asus Maximus Extreme. Custom Loop. Th other timings are all the stock XMP profile of the Kit running XMP II in the bios. (I reduced the first set from the 40-40-40-84 to 36-36-36-72 Since the speed was 5400 vs 6400.

So here's my AIda64 Screenshot and my main concerns are that my latency for the Ram and L3 cache are a bit high. So what can I tweak to bring this down? I tried even with 2 sticks maybe made a
1ns difference. (Didn't go up higher in the clock speed wanted to test 5400 2 stick vs 4.)


----------



## Spit051261

Getting a bit better but a long way to go


----------



## jomama22

Spit051261 said:


> Getting a bit better but a long way to go
> View attachment 2561612


Just a reminder, bclk clock will mess with Aida results so they aren't comparable to non-bclk overclocking.


----------



## 7empe

delete


----------



## Spit051261

jomama22 said:


> Just a reminder, bclk clock will mess with Aida results so they aren't comparable to non-bclk overclocking.


I was running 153+ bclk earlier , I won't run it with that then


----------



## Gking62

So I've posted several pages back regarding issues with running the G .Skill 6600 at XMP, which simply was not possible at any reasonable voltage above default upon my Asus Z690 Extreme which otherwise is very stable given that it's a 2021 board. However, I am running the G.Skill 5600 rock solid at XMP 1 & 2, what I'd like to know is how many of you have tried the 6000 and 6400 at XMP successfuly, with no exotic voltages, i.e. nothing above say .05v as I am with my 5600, thanks. In the end until Asus gets their act together on BIOS maturation having apparently way too much discrepancy with regards to memory stability and performance ceiling reading elsewhere, I wouldn't mind in the interim perhaps running my 5600 say to 6k, any help on that would be most appreciated, again love the knowledge gained here.


----------



## asdkj1740

MrTOOSHORT said:


> View attachment 2561554


is that vr loop1 come from raa229131?


----------



## Raphie

Gking62 said:


> So I've posted several pages back regarding issues with running the G .Skill 6600 at XMP, which simply was not possible at any reasonable voltage above default upon my Asus Z690 Extreme which otherwise is very stable given that it's a 2021 board. However, I am running the G.Skill 5600 rock solid at XMP 1 & 2, what I'd like to know is how many of you have tried the 6000 and 6400 at XMP successfuly, with no exotic voltages, i.e. nothing above say .05v as I am with my 5600, thanks. In the end until Asus gets their act together on BIOS maturation having apparently way too much discrepancy with regards to memory stability and performance ceiling reading elsewhere, I wouldn't mind in the interim perhaps running my 5600 say to 6k, any help on that would be most appreciated, again love the knowledge gained here.


In general not crazy timings, 6400 > 1.38v, 6600 > 1.41v, 6666 > 1,43v > 6800 1,49v, this is for my Unify-X, don't expect much lower ram voltages to work stable.
quick first test is to see if it passing Y-Cruncher P2.5. If so, you're in ball bark, if not, you probably need more voltage.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

asdkj1740 said:


> is that vr loop1 come from raa229131?


I have no idea.


----------



## Spit051261

Could just be the board .
Had the same issues with Apex (2 of them). I also spent a week trying to work it out thinking I was doing something wrong.
Fastest I could run on those was 5800 using T Force 6400 which is Hynix and no slouch
On the Tachyon and Dark Kingpin , booting at 6900 to 7000 is no problem.
Maybe try a different board


----------



## asdkj1740

MrTOOSHORT said:


> I have no idea.


can you expand that for me please


----------



## MrTOOSHORT




----------



## sblantipodi

I'll post here again to just see if someone else experienced my same problem.
I'm using SK Hynix chips, 4x16GB, two kits of 2x16GB 6200MHZ C36 exactly, Asus Z690 Extreme.

I can run them stable for days at 5.2GHz with 1.3V VDD/VDDQ and 1.150V SA and 1.25V MC at C36,39,39,76
No single fail on karhu or memtest 86 for days with repeated testing but I have a problem.

sometimes the RGB on the RAM stops working, when this happen, if I reboot the PC the PC hangs on detecting memory during POST.

this happen when PC is in idle for long time.

what can it be and how can I solve this problem?
I tried lowering the frequency of the RAM to 4000MHz and 3.6GHz but the problem is the same.

should I RMA the motherboard or the CPU?


----------



## z390e

@sblantipodi I would try different RAM first, verified that is on the QVL for that board.

If you still see that problem, then RMA the board.


----------



## sblantipodi

z390e said:


> @sblantipodi I would try different RAM first, verified that is on the QVL for that board.
> 
> If you still see that problem, then RMA the board.


I tried 4 different kits, same problem.


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> I tried 4 different kits, same problem.


You are still not using one kit of 4 dimms, do you?


----------



## z390e

What software are you using to control the RAM RGB?

Is it up to date? I'd try a few softwares with up to date version for RAM RGB and if it persists I would definitely RMA the board.


----------



## sblantipodi

Nizzen said:


> You are still not using one kit of 4 dimms, do you?


I tried a kit with 4 sticks at 4.4GHz but same problem.
now I'm using 2 kits of 2x16GB that runs better than the 4x16GB kit, now only this problem remains, all other problems seems ok
and the PC is stable until I reboot.


----------



## sblantipodi

z390e said:


> What software are you using to control the RAM RGB?
> 
> Is it up to date? I'd try a few softwares with up to date version for RAM RGB and if it persists I would definitely RMA the board.


Corsair icue. I'll try to use the PC without icue and without crate... let's see if the software can cause this issue but I don't think so...


----------



## Spit051261

Stop wasting your time.
Get a different board .
I would say get a Dark Kingin but they are hard to come by and expensive .
Second best option , Tachyon 
I can help with the bios .


----------



## Avarath

I'm able to get my RAM stable at 6200/36. Multiple memory stress tests with no issues.. I can play multiple game with no issues.. Apex Legends will crash randomly... Think its RAM or game issue? If I lower the speed it doesn't crash as much.. no issues with anything else though..


----------



## db000

Avarath said:


> I'm able to get my RAM stable at 6200/36. Multiple memory stress tests with no issues.. I can play multiple game with no issues.. Apex Legends will crash randomly... Think its RAM or game issue? If I lower the speed it doesn't crash as much.. no issues with anything else though..


Can you pass 7000% in Karhu? I play alot of Apex, If it's stable in Karhu = Apex runs fine.


----------



## Afferin

Anyone had any success with 4x16GB sticks? What kind of results are you all able to get with 4 DIMMs populated?


----------



## Nizzen

Afferin said:


> Anyone had any success with 4x16GB sticks? What kind of results are you all able to get with 4 DIMMs populated?


Seen a few with 5600mhz, but looks like 5200mhz is more common.

Want 64GB, then 2x32GB Hynix is the best for OC. 6000+ is doable 
--------

There are a few 64GB kits with samsung/micron too:

*Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5600 BK C40 DC - 64GB*
Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40-40-40-77, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart


*Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 BK C40 DC - 64GB*
Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5200 MHz / PC5-41600, CL40-40-40-77, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart


*Kingston FURY Beast DDR5-5600 C38 DC - 64GB*
DDR5, sett, 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, on-die ECC

*Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5-5600 C40 DC - 64GB*
Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40-40-40-77, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart - Dominator Platinum RGB with CAPELLUX RGB LED

*Kingston FURY Beast RGB DDR5-5600 C40 DC - 64GB*
Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40-40-40, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart med integrert RGB LED-lys


----------



## Ketku-

What are safe/max daily voltages IMC, VCCSA, IVR TX VDDQ, VDD and VDDQ?


----------



## Raphie

AUTO, AUTO, AUTO and AUTO..... z690 does it fine tuning itself.
for RAM up to 1.43v goes fine on auto (for 6400 / 6600), max I allow for my 6400/32's is 1.48v (6800Mhz)


----------



## Afferin

Nizzen said:


> Seen a few with 5600mhz, but looks like 5200mhz is more common.
> 
> Want 64GB, then 2x32GB Hynix is the best for OC. 6000+ is doable
> --------
> 
> There are a few 64GB kits with samsung/micron too:
> 
> *Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5600 BK C40 DC - 64GB*
> Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40-40-40-77, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart
> 
> 
> *Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 BK C40 DC - 64GB*
> Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5200 MHz / PC5-41600, CL40-40-40-77, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart
> 
> 
> *Kingston FURY Beast DDR5-5600 C38 DC - 64GB*
> DDR5, sett, 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, on-die ECC
> 
> *Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5-5600 C40 DC - 64GB*
> Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40-40-40-77, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart - Dominator Platinum RGB with CAPELLUX RGB LED
> 
> *Kingston FURY Beast RGB DDR5-5600 C40 DC - 64GB*
> Minne (RAM), 64 GB: 2 x 32 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL40-40-40, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart med integrert RGB LED-lys


Lowkey I wanted to populate all 4 slots for aesthetics, but it sounds like performance is straight booty with 4x16. That's too bad 

My IMC/Mobo aren't terrible, was able to get 6800 stable on my Z690 Formula with the TForce 6400 kit, but I'm swapping to 4x16 Corsair 6200CL36 sticks and was hoping for at least 6000... Guess I'll have to settle for much, much less!


----------



## Nizzen

Afferin said:


> Lowkey I wanted to populate all 4 slots for aesthetics, but it sounds like performance is straight booty with 4x16. That's too bad
> 
> My IMC/Mobo aren't terrible, was able to get 6800 stable on my Z690 Formula with the TForce 6400 kit, but I'm swapping to 4x16 Corsair 6200CL36 sticks and was hoping for at least 6000... Guess I'll have to settle for much, much less!


That's not too bad. This has been the same for ddr3, and ddr4 too 

Noone is buying 4x dimms for performance on Intel plattform. I'm running 4x16GB dimms on x570 Dark Hero. Because 3800mhz is pretty much max on that plattform.


----------



## Ketku-

Raphie said:


> AUTO, AUTO, AUTO and AUTO..... z690 does it fine tuning itself.
> for RAM up to 1.43v goes fine on auto (for 6400 / 6600), max I allow for my 6400/32's is 1.48v (6800Mhz)


I know that auto works fine, but my idea is run 7000+ tight timings my G.Skills rams. Thats why i ask, what is "max safe" vvd/vvdq 1.6 or more and imc 1.3 or more?


----------



## Raphie

IMHO you won't get 7K at 1.5v or below, which I consider the max for daily usage. 7K is nice to see if you can reach it, but not for prolonged usage, again IMHO.
Then again, I'm on air, 6400/32's idle @ 39c, That's WITH a FAN.


----------



## Gadfly

sblantipodi said:


> I'll post here again to just see if someone else experienced my same problem.
> I'm using SK Hynix chips, 4x16GB, two kits of 2x16GB 6200MHZ C36 exactly, Asus Z690 Extreme.
> 
> I can run them stable for days at 5.2GHz with 1.3V VDD/VDDQ and 1.150V SA and 1.25V MC at C36,39,39,76
> No single fail on karhu or memtest 86 for days with repeated testing but I have a problem.
> 
> sometimes the RGB on the RAM stops working, when this happen, if I reboot the PC the PC hangs on detecting memory during POST.
> 
> this happen when PC is in idle for long time.
> 
> what can it be and how can I solve this problem?
> I tried lowering the frequency of the RAM to 4000MHz and 3.6GHz but the problem is the same.
> 
> should I RMA the motherboard or the CPU?


Do you have ANY RGB controller software installed? Asus, Corsair, etc.? if so, Completely uninstall it. 99.9% chance that fixes your issue.


----------



## sblantipodi

Gadfly said:


> Do you have ANY RGB controller software installed? Asus, Corsair, etc.? if so, Completely uninstall it. 99.9% chance that fixes your issue.


I has Asus Armoury Crate installed and Corsair icue to control the RGB on the RAM.
I uninstalled everything and hoping to see if it's fixed.


----------



## Gadfly

Raphie said:


> IMHO you won't get 7K at 1.5v or below, which I consider the max for daily usage. 7K is nice to see if you can reach it, but not for prolonged usage, again IMHO.
> Then again, I'm on air, 6400/32's idle @ 39c, That's WITH a FAN.


First, why is your memory so hot? I was just over 40'C with my G.skill sticks with stock heat spreaders +fan after an hour of hard stability testing at 1.5v 6800C30 1T.

Why do you say that? Is there anything to indicate that 1.55v is any worse than 1.5v (assuming you can keep it cool)? I seriously doubt that the extra 50mv going to cause the memory IC's to degrade at any faster rate than running 1.5v.

Personally, I am of the opinion that 1.55v or even 1.6v is likely safe for 24/7 operation as long as you can cool it. I would worry less about running memory for a few years at 1.6v at under 35'C peak than I would 1.5v at 45'C peak. I'd also like to point out that for desktop PC use the only time memory gets warm and pulls any kind of current is either for some short benchmarks, or stability testing. Gaming and most other workloads will barely raise the memory temp over ambient; and as always high temps + high current is what degrades and kills IC's, not voltage.

I honestly wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Raphie

I’m at 6600, was at 6800, but under load in a closed case that goes beyond 50c
6600 runs at 1.415v and idles at 38-40c under mild usage.
my fans run at 500, my ram fan at 900. Higher rpms ofcourse cool more, but it’s not worth the noise.
again I’m on air (D15) not water or AIO so the radiating of the d15 straight above the ram is a challenge.


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> IMHO you won't get 7K at 1.5v or below, which I consider the max for daily usage. 7K is nice to see if you can reach it, but not for prolonged usage, again IMHO.
> Then again, I'm on air, 6400/32's idle @ 39c, That's WITH a FAN.


I consider 1.7v or below for daily usage. Keep the dimms cool, and they wil live long enough 

I'm running 1.62vdd/1.50vddq with Dell green Hynix 4800mhz under water. watertemp +1 c under load. ~28c

7000c30


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> I consider 1.7v or below for daily usage. Keep the dimms cool, and they wil live long enough
> 
> I'm running 1.62vdd/1.50vddq with Dell green Hynix 4800mhz under water. watertemp +1 c under load. ~28c
> 
> 7000c30


----------



## Nizzen

Soon 4 years old Optane 900p 480GB OS "drive". 4k random read @ QD=1 is pretty strong with AlderLake . M.2 nvme ssd's looks so slow in comparison 










People want "snappy" computer, and this is the key for "snappyness"


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> Soon 4 years old Optane 900p 480GB OS "drive". 4k random read @ QD=1 is pretty strong with AlderLake . M.2 nvme ssd's looks so slow in comparison
> 
> View attachment 2561801
> 
> 
> People want "snappy" computer, and this is the key for "snappyness"


Nice... My NVME SSD (2 drive Raid) for comparison, just left it all the test defaults


----------



## Ketku-

Raphie said:


> IMHO you won't get 7K at 1.5v or below, which I consider the max for daily usage. 7K is nice to see if you can reach it, but not for prolonged usage, again IMHO.
> Then again, I'm on air, 6400/32's idle @ 39c, That's WITH a FAN.


You are on Air, but i am not..

My rams are idle @ below 30c and when running Tm5 Extreme about more 2-5c  So my problems are not temps never.


----------



## careTaker79

Raphie said:


> AUTO, AUTO, AUTO and AUTO..... z690 does it fine tuning itself.
> for RAM up to 1.43v goes fine on auto (for 6400 / 6600), max I allow for my 6400/32's is 1.48v (6800Mhz)


Hi! You Seen toba very similar config to mine. I have a i9-12900kf (5.2 all Core) on a MSI MEG Ace z690 with the Same RAM Kit that you have. I can run BMK tools Up and down and all seems to bei stable.
But when i play COD Warzone the Game crashes every time. I tried a hundred different settings until i thought about disabling XMP and since then no more crashes. :-(
Do you have any Tipps what to try now? Have no experience with RAM OC, but don't want to run the Kit at base Speed without any XMP/OC. Paid too much for that Kit, to let this Happen...


----------



## Arni90

Ketku- said:


> You are on Air, but i am not..
> 
> My rams are idle @ below 30c and when running Tm5 Extreme about more 2-5c  So my problems are not temps never.


Temps are always the issue. Lower temps -> higher voltage tolerance -> stuff goes faster


----------



## Gking62

Gadfly said:


> Gaming and most other workloads will barely raise the memory temp over ambient...


depends on how you define "barely", depends on the game and settings. On my system I run everything at high or "Ultra" if you will, e.g. Crysis 3 Remastered, DL2, Hitman 3, all will raise my mem temps to on avg upwards of 10-12C above ambient, my ambients reside in the low 20's most of the time.


----------



## Salvadv2004

Falkentyne said:


> Inizia stringendo i sottotitoli senza aumentare la frequenza.
> Non modificare le primarie.
> 
> Fallo prima a 5200 mhz (o qualunque sia il tuo XMP di serie!)
> 
> Puoi già ottenere almeno 10 ns di miglioramento.
> 
> Trefi = 65535 (intervallo di aggiornamento della memoria nel BIOS).
> TRRD_SG=6 (ras# a ras delay L i bios)
> TRRD_DG=4 (Ras to ras ritardo S nel BIOS)
> Trfc 360 (rif tempo ciclo)
> twr=16 (scrittura tempo di ripristino, credo)
> trtp 8 (letto fino al pre-tempo)
> tfaw 16 (tempo di vittoria in quattro atti)
> tCKE: 4
> 
> Algoritmi di allenamento della memoria
> Allenamento di latenza di andata e ritorno: "Abilitato".
> 
> (BTW non ascoltare anta777, ascolta solo me).
> 
> Basta apportare queste modifiche e "dovresti" essere completamente stabile.
> 
> Se sei stabile a 5200 e ti piace la lettura/scrittura/copia/latenza, puoi iniziare a lavorare su 5400.
> [/CITAZIONE]
> Sorry, i am trying to overclock my corsair vengeance 4800 cl40, but i cant go below 48 with tWR, my motherboard is a z690 aorus pro and i have an i7 12700k, could you help me please? Thanks in advance


----------



## sugi0lover

Raphie said:


> IMHO you won't get 7K at 1.5v or below, which I consider the max for daily usage. 7K is nice to see if you can reach it, but not for prolonged usage, again IMHO.
> Then again, I'm on air, 6400/32's idle @ 39c, That's WITH a FAN.


I have seen a couple of OC results of 7K under 1.5v.
Here is one, 7000 cl32 at 1.40v with 120mm fan.
You just need good ram kit.


----------



## Raphie

ThnX, But no Karhu. Memtest is easy. Karhu and Y-Cruncher are the ones to beat imho.
What kit is this BTW? Even booting 7k @ 1.4 is impressive.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Raphie said:


> ThnX, But no Karhu. Memtest is easy. Karhu and Y-Cruncher are the ones to beat imho.
> What kit is this BTW? Even booting 7k @ 1.4 is impressive.


Part(model) number in cpuz SPD tab.


----------



## Nizzen

Is this a new "generation" IC?


*Corsair Vengeance DDR5-6000 BK C36 DC - 32GB*
Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 6000 MHz / PC5-48000, CL36-38-38-76, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart






Corsair Vengeance DDR5-6000 BK C36 DC - 32GB | Billig


3 196,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 6000 MHz / PC5-48000, CL36-38-38-76, 1.25 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart. Rask levering




www.proshop.no


----------



## Ketku-

I am new oc to DDR5. So checking this info for you guys for future daily voltages, rams are in water so temps are 30-35c max.
When overclocking memorys, questions safe max voltages:

VDD/VDDQ volts 1.6v ok?
TX 1.5v ok?
MC 1.3v ok?
VCCSA 1.2v ok?

I think this are for my max settings, maybe not want go higher volts.


----------



## Raphie

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Part(model) number in cpuz SPD tab.


I know, but no google results?


----------



## Ketku-

Guys, what is best way to start OC DDR5? Memory kit is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB 6400MHz CL32-39-39-102
Last time DDR4 OCed and these platform is so new to me and really dont know what best way start.

Processor first or Memory first and what timings are best start etc? Coming for gaming, not record #1.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Ketku- said:


> I am new oc to DDR5. So checking this info for you guys for future daily voltages, rams are in water so temps are 30-35c max.
> When overclocking memorys, questions safe max voltages:
> 
> VDD/VDDQ volts 1.6v ok?
> TX 1.5v ok?
> MC 1.3v ok?
> VCCSA 1.2v ok?
> 
> I think this are for my max settings, maybe not want go higher volts.


All safe voltages. Np.


----------



## Spit051261

Are there profiles on the board you can try and then fine tune ?
Just for starters


----------



## jollib

This is what I got with your settings @Raphie. I am watercooled. These are Dell Green Hynix. HWinfo Temps are when running y-cruncher. 35c~. I think i stil got some headroom.
My First try with DDR5 aside from using the presets for MSI. Running Karthu now. This is only mem OC. I need to find out why my CPU temps are so high even though I havent touched them. They only get high when change what I think is only Mem voltage. But i might be touching something i shouldnt.


















Just a tease of my setup. one 1260mm rad from alphacool peaking behind. I need to fix the tubing between the cpu and the mem block. the ZMT tubing is too stiff and is moving my mem block outward to the right. I thought i could get away without using right angles. Using Velcro straps to help with the expansion. Yes i need a GPU Block....














Raphie said:


> I need help with my 6800 settings (setup in my sig)
> Karhu errors between 3000% <> 5000% randomly, currently still going @ 4100%
> I've got forced cooling maxing the ram sensors @ 55c
> Increased my SA to 1.25 (started @ 1.2) which improved from error <1.000% to error <5000%
> Pretty loose timings which can be worked down later. Any suggestions?
> increasing ram voltage up to 1.5v will BDOD @ 1.5v
> running 1.485 runs fine < 5000%
> Help me crack the code pls
> 
> Also my tRTL's are dynamic being 64 @ 6600/6666, but jump to 65 @ 6800 is that normal?
> 
> View attachment 2561193
> 
> View attachment 2561192


----------



## KedarWolf

jollib said:


> This is what I got with your settings @Raphie. I am watercooled. These are Dell Green Hynix. HWinfo Temps are when running y-cruncher. 35c~. I think i stil got some headroom.
> My First try with DDR5 aside from using the presets for MSI. Running Karthu now.
> View attachment 2562020
> 
> 
> View attachment 2562021


I'm confused. Why is y-cruncher on DDR5 at that?

This is me on a 5950x CL14 DDR4. :/


----------



## jollib

Are you asking why it looks like that? Not sure. Im running it from the benchmate suite. I'm new to this so looking through the threads someone mentioned it was in benchmate so i downloaded that suite.



KedarWolf said:


> I'm confused. Why is y-cruncher on DDR5 at that?
> 
> This is me on a 5950x CL14 DDR4. :/
> 
> View attachment 2562023


----------



## Spit051261

jollib said:


> Are you asking why it looks like that? Not sure. Im running it from the benchmate suite. I'm new to this so looking through the threads someone mentioned it was in benchmate so i downloaded that suite.





jollib said:


> Are you asking why it looks like that? Not sure. Im running it from the benchmate suite. I'm new to this so looking through the threads someone mentioned it was in benchmate so i downloaded that suite.


Should look something like this ....


----------



## Raphie

Nice!, interesting to see that you managed 6800 with 1.42. I got it with 1.31.
might try 1.42 again. Might have been temps, or it might be my g-skill set. Though then I don’t get it why on 1.31 it passed. Settings can probably be tidied up a bit more, I happy to see any improved Dragonballs 



jollib said:


> This is what I got with your settings @Raphie. I am watercooled. These are Dell Green Hynix. HWinfo Temps are when running y-cruncher. 35c~. I think i stil got some headroom.
> My First try with DDR5 aside from using the presets for MSI. Running Karthu now. This is only mem OC. I need to find out why my CPU temps are so high even though I havent touched them. They only get high when change what I think is only Mem voltage. But i might be touching something i shouldnt.
> View attachment 2562020
> 
> 
> View attachment 2562021
> 
> 
> Just a tease of my setup. one 1260mm rad from alphacool peaking behind. I need to fix the tubing between the cpu and the mem block. the ZMT tubing is too stiff and is moving my mem block outward to the right. I thought i could get away without using right angles. Using Velcro straps to help with the expansion. Yes i need a GPU Block....
> 
> View attachment 2562022


----------



## jollib

oops my bad. here it is. i was running the wrong y-cruncher benchmark













Spit051261 said:


> Should look something like this ....
> View attachment 2562064


----------



## Raphie

I always run the 2.5b 64secs is on the mark!


----------



## Raphie

I'm still wondering how much better the ambient temp around the RAM is with WC (AIO) instead of a big D15 radiator.
I'm sort of assuming that an AIO could shave off 3-5c on case temp around the RAM? oppposed to the warm radiated air keeping lingering around.
I've tried top exhaust fans, but those really need to suck hard to get enough warm air out to make a difference.


----------



## jollib

with a fan and bare sticks at idle i was at 33c. I am now at 28c at idle. the same temp as my cpu at idle. its 75f or 24c in my office. so the loop is not quite at ambient on idle. Not sure if this info helps you. I didnt try ocing on air so i dont have a comparison.



Raphie said:


> I'm still wondering how much better the ambient temp around the RAM is with WC (AIO) instead of a big D15 radiator.
> I'm sort of assuming that an AIO could shave off 3-5c on case temp around the RAM? oppposed to the warm radiated air keeping lingering around.
> I've tried top exhaust fans, but those really need to suck hard to get enough warm air out to make a difference.


----------



## KedarWolf

Spit051261 said:


> Should look something like this ....
> View attachment 2562064


I mean the times in y-cruncher. My DDR4 at 3800 CL14 is faster than the DDR5 bench. I would never expect that.


----------



## Braegnok

Gadfly said:


> Don’t buy that Ram, it is Samsung


I'm running F5-6000J3040F16G kit now in Strix Z690-I with no issues,.. the IC's are SK Hynix.


----------



## jollib

im chasing my 5950x system with ddr4 b-die too. 



KedarWolf said:


> I mean the times in y-cruncher. My DDR4 at 3800 CL14 is faster than the DDR5 bench. I would never expect that.


----------



## jomama22

KedarWolf said:


> I mean the times in y-cruncher. My DDR4 at 3800 CL14 is faster than the DDR5 bench. I would never expect that.


Because y-cruncher like core count and clocks as well. Also, well tuned ddr5 has no problem slotting into the 56 second range(plenty of examples in this thread), and that's before avx 512, which will jet you around 53 seconds.


----------



## bscool

KedarWolf said:


> I mean the times in y-cruncher. My DDR4 at 3800 CL14 is faster than the DDR5 bench. I would never expect that.


He is on 12600k. 12900k will be quite a bit faster, also depends if ecores on or off and using avx512 or not.


----------



## Spit051261

KedarWolf said:


> I mean the times in y-cruncher. My DDR4 at 3800 CL14 is faster than the DDR5 bench. I would never expect that.


Down to latency maybe


----------



## KedarWolf

jomama22 said:


> Because y-cruncher like core count and clocks as well. Also, well tuned ddr5 has no problem slotting into the 56 second range(plenty of examples in this thread), and that's before avx 512, which will jet you around 53 seconds.


Oh, I see.


----------



## HOODedDutchman

So my memory controller voltage reads 1.25v in bios but in hwinfo64 it reads 1.38v. Tried setting manually to 1.25v and voltage was identical. Upped to 1.3v to make sure I was reading the correct setting in hwinfo64 and it raised IMC VDD to 1.43v in hwinfo64. Anyone else having this issue and which should I trust?

Brand new build with asus b660-i and Kingston Fury 6000c40 running xmp. Updated to latest bios and no change.


----------



## 7empe

HOODedDutchman said:


> So my memory controller voltage reads 1.25v in bios but in hwinfo64 it reads 1.38v. Tried setting manually to 1.25v and voltage was identical. Upped to 1.3v to make sure I was reading the correct setting in hwinfo64 and it raised IMC VDD to 1.43v in hwinfo64. Anyone else having this issue and which should I trust?
> 
> Brand new build with asus b660-i and Kingston Fury 6000c40 running xmp. Updated to latest bios and no change.
> View attachment 2562234
> 
> View attachment 2562233


What's the hwinfo version? No matter what, I would trust bios first.


----------



## HOODedDutchman

7empe said:


> What's the hwinfo version? No matter what, I would trust bios first.


Tried both the latest full release and latest beta version.


----------



## Th0re

Just got a new kingston 6000 cl40 kit, not sure how this is possible but I’m not complaining. Running a ”budget” build with 12700F and b660 mb with external clock generator.


----------



## bscool

Th0re said:


> Just got a new kingston 6000 cl40 kit, not sure how this is possible but I’m not complaining. Running a ”budget” build with 12700F and b660 mb with external clock generator.
> View attachment 2562246


I know there is some luck/lotto to any memory kit but I also recently got a Kingston 6000c40 kit and for less than half the price of my gskill 6400c32 kit the Kingston is a better bin. So far 7000c30 on 2022 Apex can pass Karhu, y cruncher etc and daily use.

You can use Intel Latency Checker if you want to get more accurate results for bandwidth and latency. As with bclk OC adia results are way off 

Here it is with IU Releases · FarisR99/IMLCGui


----------



## Th0re

bscool said:


> I know there is some luck/lotto to any memory kit but I also recently got a Kingston 6000c40 kit and for less than half the price of my gskill 6400c32 kit the Kingston is a better bin. So far 7000c30 on 2022 Apex can pass Karhu, y cruncher etc and daily use.
> 
> You can use Intel Latency Checker if you want to get more accurate results for bandwidth and latency. As with bclk OC adia results are way off
> 
> Here it is with IU Releases · FarisR99/IMLCGui


Thanks, will get back with results. 6400 was max for me when using bclk oc, can get higher when not using bclk but then no CPU OC.


----------



## HOODedDutchman

Definitely getting some odd issues with software readings. This is at 6000 xmp 1. Xmp 2 read the same. Both bios and task manager show 6000 but Aida shows 5985, hwinfo64 and cpu-z show 2992.7 (half 5985). I'm not sure what to think about this 🤔


----------



## Raphie

MSI board? the -15 is just MSI rounding


----------



## HOODedDutchman

Raphie said:


> MSI board? the -15 is just MSI rounding


No asus b660-i gaming


----------



## Th0re

bscool said:


> I know there is some luck/lotto to any memory kit but I also recently got a Kingston 6000c40 kit and for less than half the price of my gskill 6400c32 kit the Kingston is a better bin. So far 7000c30 on 2022 Apex can pass Karhu, y cruncher etc and daily use.
> 
> You can use Intel Latency Checker if you want to get more accurate results for bandwidth and latency. As with bclk OC adia results are way off
> 
> Here it is with IU Releases · FarisR99/IMLCGui





bscool said:


> I know there is some luck/lotto to any memory kit but I also recently got a Kingston 6000c40 kit and for less than half the price of my gskill 6400c32 kit the Kingston is a better bin. So far 7000c30 on 2022 Apex can pass Karhu, y cruncher etc and daily use.
> 
> You can use Intel Latency Checker if you want to get more accurate results for bandwidth and latency. As with bclk OC adia results are way off
> 
> Here it is with IU Releases · FarisR99/IMLCGui


Alright, the bandwidth makes more sense now, didn't expect the latency to be so low though. Do you you know if they're using different test depths?


----------



## HOODedDutchman

Wondering if it glitched because, for whatever reason, windows turned VBS on by default. Same exact thumb drive I've installed windows with on like 5 systems and it never enabled it before. May have caused some reading glitch during install that threw everything off 🤷‍♂️. Been disabled now and still reading the same so who knows. Performance seems to be on point anyways. 22500 in r23 with 12700k and 92.5k read with 71ns latency in aida64... Bugs my OCD tho lol.


----------



## z390e

GSkill 6400 XMP3 no tuning yet


----------



## bscool

Th0re said:


> Alright, the bandwidth makes more sense now, didn't expect the latency to be so low though. Do you you know if they're using different test depths?


Hmm interesting. That is impressive. I usually click latency at the top and it runs a full range test or you can choose what to run.

As far as test depth do you mean compared to Aida64? I know for me they are close if I compare the MLC 20000 Inject depth vs Aida64 latency running 100 BCLK, MLC is slightly lower. 

Both vary a little run to run.



https://www.overclock.net/attachments/6800c32-iml-e-core-off-png.2555627/


----------



## SoldierRBT

Made small improvements to my 7000 profile. Same voltages.
12900KS 5.2/4.8GHz 7000MHz 30-40-41-28 1T 1.60v VDD 1.50v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.911v SA


----------



## QXE

DDR5-7000 30-39-41-28 1T. 1.62 VDD 1.57 VDDQ 1.44 VDD2 1.455 VDDQTX.
Thank you SolderRBT for motivating me to tighten again.


----------



## DanGleeballs

I joined the Unify-X gang. Got it set up yesterday this is where I got to last night. Most timings on auto but not a bad start I thought.
1T a no go even at 6200 my 4slot Aorus could do that so something I've missed or maybe another Bios
12700kf +2 boost P and Ecores ring at 40
DDR5-6666 36-40-40-80 2N. 1.5 VDD 1.480 VDDQ 1.270 VDD2 1.450 VDDQTX 1.15 SA
Dominator Platinum 6200 cooled with ghetto 120mm fan kept under 49c while testing.
I ran Aida while everything else was going so Latency looks really bad.


----------



## Raphie

This overclocking was completed by kovan yang's, who is also one of the team members of the overclocking boss you are familiar with. This overclocking increased the real memory frequency to 5002MHz, equivalent to 10004MHz, which is also the first time to break through the 10GHz barrier. The overclocking platform uses Intel i9 12900KS processor, MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X motherboard, and DDR5 6400MHz memory from Kingston.

In order to ensure the excellent performance of the memory controller when overclocking, the overclocking team adjusted the core of the processor to dual-core dual threads, and lowered the CPU frequency as much as possible to prevent the impact of high frequency on over-memory. In terms of motherboard, MEG Z690 UNIFY-X with only two DIMM slots is selected, because the fewer DIMM slots on memory, the clearer the wiring, less electrical number interference, which is more beneficial to hypermemory. Therefore, many previous overclocking records were completed by dual IMMD ITX motherboards. MEG Z690 UNIFY-X was born for this.








10004MHz达成！微星MEG Z690 UNIFY-X内存超频首破10G大关


随着Z690主板的上市，DDR5内存也进入到了零售市场，并不断地刷新着频率纪录。而就在昨晚，微星超频团队将DDR5内存的超频成绩大幅度提升，一举来到等效10GHz的新高度！ 本次超频由kovan yang's完成，他也是你们…




zhuanlan.zhihu.com


----------



## asdkj1740

Raphie said:


> This overclocking was completed by kovan yang's, who is also one of the team members of the overclocking boss you are familiar with. This overclocking increased the real memory frequency to 5002MHz, equivalent to 10004MHz, which is also the first time to break through the 10GHz barrier. The overclocking platform uses Intel i9 12900KS processor, MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X motherboard, and DDR5 6400MHz memory from Kingston.
> 
> In order to ensure the excellent performance of the memory controller when overclocking, the overclocking team adjusted the core of the processor to dual-core dual threads, and lowered the CPU frequency as much as possible to prevent the impact of high frequency on over-memory. In terms of motherboard, MEG Z690 UNIFY-X with only two DIMM slots is selected, because the fewer DIMM slots on memory, the clearer the wiring, less electrical number interference, which is more beneficial to hypermemory. Therefore, many previous overclocking records were completed by dual IMMD ITX motherboards. MEG Z690 UNIFY-X was born for this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10004MHz达成！微星MEG Z690 UNIFY-X内存超频首破10G大关
> 
> 
> 随着Z690主板的上市，DDR5内存也进入到了零售市场，并不断地刷新着频率纪录。而就在昨晚，微星超频团队将DDR5内存的超频成绩大幅度提升，一举来到等效10GHz的新高度！ 本次超频由kovan yang's完成，他也是你们…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zhuanlan.zhihu.com


they have a new record higher than 10004


----------



## asdkj1740

z390e said:


> GSkill 6400 XMP3 no tuning yet
> 
> View attachment 2562351


that is strong. is that xmp3 builtin and set by gskill?


----------



## z390e

asdkj1740 said:


> that is strong. is that xmp3 builtin and set by gskill?


Believe it is a vendor-set profile provided to the motherboard manufacturer. 

Perhaps someone like @shamino1978 who works at one of the vendors or one of the local experts like @Falkentyne @sugi0lover @opt33 or another can provide more info.


----------



## Afferin

Hey everyone, I'm putting together a spreadsheet of various DDR5 OC results to help people have an easier time with OCing. I think by having a quick reference point of everyone's results (rather than having to search and cycle through literally hundreds of pages to find results that you care about) will be a great benefit to everyone.

I've added my results, and I think some people on the OC discord will be adding theirs as well. Please *only add results that are consistently stable, not just results that are able to boot.*

The spreadsheet can be found here: DDR5 OC RESULTS

I've organized it into two sheets: 32GB and 64GB results. I was inspired to do this because I'm now running 4x16gb sticks and there are like 2 people who have experience with this, so I figured this would be a good starting point for others looking to see what kind of results they may be able to achieve on certain kits or boards.

EDIT: I suppose I could also add a sheet for 128GB.... but is anyone insane enough to try that yet?


----------



## bscool

Afferin said:


> Hey everyone, I'm putting together a spreadsheet of various DDR5 OC results to help people have an easier time with OCing. I think by having a quick reference point of everyone's results (rather than having to search and cycle through literally hundreds of pages to find results that you care about) will be a great benefit to everyone.
> 
> I've added my results, and I think some people on the OC discord will be adding theirs as well. Please *only add results that are consistently stable, not just results that are able to boot.*
> 
> The spreadsheet can be found here: DDR5 OC RESULTS
> 
> I've organized it into two sheets: 32GB and 64GB results. I was inspired to do this because I'm now running 4x16gb sticks and there are like 2 people who have experience with this, so I figured this would be a good starting point for others looking to see what kind of results they may be able to achieve on certain kits or boards.
> 
> EDIT: I suppose I could also add a sheet for 128GB.... but is anyone insane enough to try that yet?


To me you need validation screenshot showing timings, voltages and what you used to test(Karhu, tm5, y cruncher etc) for it to be more useful and legitmate. Because without it anyone can claim whatever they want.

And it would help so you know what each person used to test or their idea of stability.


----------



## Afferin

bscool said:


> To me you need validation screenshot showing timings, voltages and what you used to test(Karhu, tm5, y cruncher etc) for it to be more useful and legitmate. Because without it anyone can claim whatever they want.


That's an excellent point. I've messaged some mods on r/overclocking to see if anyone is interested in moderating the sheet. If I can get some interest in maintaining the integrity of posted results, I will enforce a requirement for proof of stability and a group of people can check these validations to ensure that all posted results are actually stable. The only reason I didn't do it for now is because I think for one person to go through every result might be a bit tedious, or the validation process will be extremely slow. Perhaps if any of you guys are interested in validating results, we could work something out :0


----------



## QXE

Z690 Dark scuffed beta bios not stable ofc


----------



## 7empe

Anyone has some info regarding CPU VDDQ (Tx) acceptable voltage range? I know that's impossible to say what is safe and what is not, but I wonder why asus has no color scheme in bios for different voltage levels like it is done for other voltages. Also, CPU VDDQ equals to VDD by default (an auto rule) on the asus boards. Is it due to the board's design that requires this match? I know that other board vendors do not follow this rule. Any input appreciated.


----------



## themad

Afferin said:


> Hey everyone, I'm putting together a spreadsheet of various DDR5 OC results to help people have an easier time with OCing. I think by having a quick reference point of everyone's results (rather than having to search and cycle through literally hundreds of pages to find results that you care about) will be a great benefit to everyone.
> 
> I've added my results, and I think some people on the OC discord will be adding theirs as well. Please *only add results that are consistently stable, not just results that are able to boot.*
> 
> The spreadsheet can be found here: DDR5 OC RESULTS
> 
> I've organized it into two sheets: 32GB and 64GB results. I was inspired to do this because I'm now running 4x16gb sticks and there are like 2 people who have experience with this, so I figured this would be a good starting point for others looking to see what kind of results they may be able to achieve on certain kits or boards.
> 
> EDIT: I suppose I could also add a sheet for 128GB.... but is anyone insane enough to try that yet?


That is a great initiative. Thanks for putting it together. I have been collecting some results myself to test with.
If I may suggest, it might be helpful if you include the RAM cooling method used. That helps, at a very high level, to understand why the temperatures are that high/low and how far can it go in terms of timings. Simple categories as "Air no direct fan", "Air with direct fan" and "Watercooled" should be good enough.


----------



## Afferin

themad said:


> That is a great initiative. Thanks for putting it together. I have been collecting some results myself to test with.
> If I may suggest, it might be helpful if you include the RAM cooling method used. That helps, at a very high level, to understand why the temperatures are that high/low and how far can it go in terms of timings. Simple categories as "Air no direct fan", "Air with direct fan" and "Watercooled" should be good enough.


This is an excellent suggestion. I will modify it tonight when I get home! I started suspecting I should add something like this when I saw that everyone's DIMM temps were far lower than mine. lmao



7empe said:


> Anyone has some info regarding CPU VDDQ (Tx) acceptable voltage range? I know that's impossible to say what is safe and what is not, but I wonder why asus has no color scheme in bios for different voltage levels like it is done for other voltages. Also, CPU VDDQ equals to VDD by default (an auto rule) on the asus boards. Is it due to the board's design that requires this match? I know that other board vendors do not follow this rule. Any input appreciated.


I've heard that 1.45v is the recommended daily max for VDDQ TX, but I've run as high as 1.5v. You can run it desynched from VDD.


----------



## 7empe

Afferin said:


> I've heard that 1.45v is the recommended daily max for VDDQ TX, but I've run as high as 1.5v. You can run it desynched from VDD.


Yeah, I believe 1.45V claim has been taken from Buildzoid gut feeling, when he mentioned this in one of his videos. Unfortunatelly I did not find any white paper on this. Also, it seems that CPU VDDQ is limited by FIVR while closing to 1.6V (vdroop included).


----------



## Nizzen

Afferin said:


> This is an excellent suggestion. I will modify it tonight when I get home! I started suspecting I should add something like this when I saw that everyone's DIMM temps were far lower than mine. lmao
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard that 1.45v is the recommended daily max for VDDQ TX, but I've run as high as 1.5v. You can run it desynched from VDD.


I heard pigs can fly...
#HeardOnTheInternet

Every year people hearing what is suppose to be max "voltage" for VCCSA, V-core etc... Still there is no hard facts. If it works, it OK 

Ran 1.55 VCCSA on 9900k and 10900k, and they didn't die. Still running 10900k in one gamingpc here. PS: I don't have much hardware for 5+ years, so don't really care about longlivity


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> I heard pigs can fly...
> #HeardOnTheInternet
> 
> Every year people hearing what is suppose to be max "voltage" for VCCSA, V-core etc... Still there is no hard facts. If it works, it OK
> 
> Ran 1.55 VCCSA on 9900k and 10900k, and they didn't die. Still running 10900k in one gamingpc here. PS: I don't have much hardware for 5+ years, so don't really care about longlivity


Define "longlivity"


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> Define "longlivity"


2+ years 
Every GPU season


----------



## 7empe

Nizzen said:


> 2+ years
> Every GPU season


I follow the same logic :]


----------



## jollib

You beat me to it.  I was going to build something like this for the AMD side



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dsu9K1Nt_7apHBdiy0MWVPcYjf6nOlr9CtkkfN78tSo/htmlview#



I was going to model it after this.




Afferin said:


> Hey everyone, I'm putting together a spreadsheet of various DDR5 OC results to help people have an easier time with OCing. I think by having a quick reference point of everyone's results (rather than having to search and cycle through literally hundreds of pages to find results that you care about) will be a great benefit to everyone.
> 
> I've added my results, and I think some people on the OC discord will be adding theirs as well. Please *only add results that are consistently stable, not just results that are able to boot.*
> 
> The spreadsheet can be found here: DDR5 OC RESULTS
> 
> I've organized it into two sheets: 32GB and 64GB results. I was inspired to do this because I'm now running 4x16gb sticks and there are like 2 people who have experience with this, so I figured this would be a good starting point for others looking to see what kind of results they may be able to achieve on certain kits or boards.
> 
> EDIT: I suppose I could also add a sheet for 128GB.... but is anyone insane enough to try that yet?


----------



## Afferin

jollib said:


> You beat me to it.  I was going to build something like this for the AMD side
> 
> 
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dsu9K1Nt_7apHBdiy0MWVPcYjf6nOlr9CtkkfN78tSo/htmlview#
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to model it after this.


Hey! It's not a race, it's a community-driven effort to make OCing easier! Let's collab and get some solid data so everyone else can have an easier time than I did with DDR5!


----------



## jollib

Afferin said:


> Hey! It's not a race, it's a community-driven effort to make OCing easier!





Afferin said:


> Hey! It's not a race, it's a community-driven effort to make OCing easier! Let's collab and get some solid data so everyone else can have an easier time than I did with DDR5!


No worries. I'm slow. Ive been using that guide for my AMD build with b-die. I was just going to copy how he did it but build it with the info we need for Intel. I like how you started. I dont know if i missed if you mentioned it already but you can have people submit their own info so you dont have to manage finding all the info within 200+ pages here.


----------



## 7empe

Did you know, that without touching the tCKE/tPPD/tXP (like we did in the past), performance won't be affected but stability will be way better? Also CPU VDDQ may be way lower.

Example. 6666 CL 30.

tCKE/tPPD/tXP = 4/0/4, CPU VDDQ needed 1.48V
tCKE/tPPD/tXP = 18/4/18 (all auto), CPU VDDQ needed 1.40V (and it is not the floor yet).

Latency/bandwith the same in both cases.


----------



## bscool

7empe said:


> Did you know, that without touching the tCKE/tPPD/tXP (like we did in the past), performance won't be affected but stability will be way better? Also CPU VDDQ may be way lower.
> 
> Example. 6666 CL 30.
> 
> tCKE/tPPD/tXP = 4/0/4, CPU VDDQ needed 1.48V
> tCKE/tPPD/tXP = 18/4/18 (all auto), CPU VDDQ needed 1.40V (and it is not the floor yet).
> 
> Latency/bandwith the same in both cases.


They do effect certain benchmarks though like photoworx and GB3 scores a bit when I compare them.

Unless it is margin of error as the test varies a bit but I consitently get higher with them adjusted.


----------



## Afferin

Mister bscool doesn't believe me when I say I can get 6200 stable on 4x16 sticks, so here we are..... I'll update tonight or tomorrow when this inevitably passes at 5000% or 10000% or whatever his expectations are set to and I expect compensation for my time and effort. :')


----------



## bscool

Afferin said:


> View attachment 2562525
> 
> 
> Mister bscool doesn't believe me when I say I can get 6200 stable on 4x16 sticks, so here we are..... I'll update tonight or tomorrow when this inevitably passes at 5000% or 10000% or whatever his expectations are set to and I expect compensation for my time and effort. :')


I believe you it just nice to see full timings and performance/benches. I mean if I say I run 7000c30 what does help? If I show full timings and benches I think it is more useful.

I guess do it however you want I post full timings and benches like gb3, aidi64 and y cruncher. But I know most dont want to do that. I did the same on the z690 ddr4 thread.


----------



## Afferin

bscool said:


> I believe you it just nice to see full timings and performance/benches. I mean if I say I run 7000c30 what does help? If I show full timings and benches I think it is more useful.
> 
> I guess do it however you want I post full timings and benches like gb3, aidi64 and y cruncher. But I know most dont want to do that. I did the same on the z690 ddr4 thread.


I was just kidding -- you know I love ya! 6200c30 failed at 900%, so I'm playing around with CL32 and higher IMC voltage. But don't worry, I'll get this goin' and I'll show y'all the true power of 4x16gb sticks!

edit: I still require compensation though, I accept bank transfers and nice rgb pc parts


----------



## Ichirou

Afferin said:


> I was just kidding -- you know I love ya! 6200c30 failed at 900%, so I'm playing around with CL32 and higher IMC voltage. But don't worry, I'll get this goin' and I'll show y'all the true power of 4x16gb sticks!
> 
> edit: I still require compensation though, I accept bank transfers and nice rgb pc parts


Got an AIDA reading on that kit? Curious to see it. If you can stabilize 4x16 GB at 6,200 MHz, chances are, you could stabilize a much higher frequency than everyone else on two DIMMs.
Well beyond the 7,200-7,300 MHz max that people are stuck on.

I too am sitting here with 4x16 GB on a nice IMC, albeit on DDR4 Gear 1. So bandwidth wouldn't be comparable. But the latency would probably be better. 4,133 MHz CL14 1T.


----------



## Afferin

Ichirou said:


> Got an AIDA reading on that kit? Curious to see it. If you can stabilize 4x16 GB at 6,200 MHz, chances are, you could stabilize a much higher frequency than everyone else on two DIMMs.
> Well beyond the 7,200-7,300 MHz max that people are stuck on.
> 
> I too am sitting here with 4x16 GB on a nice IMC, albeit on DDR4 Gear 1. So bandwidth wouldn't be comparable. But the latency would probably be better. 4,133 MHz CL14 1T.


As soon as I get this Karhu test to 10000% I will run an AIDA benchmark for y'all! But the timings haven't been tightened yet -- I only did the primaries for now. On my last kit, I managed upwards of 6933 stable on 2 DIMMs but I think I hit the limit of my sticks. I eventually plan to bin each of these two new kits to see if I can maybe get 7000+. Wish me luck!

4133CL14 1T is still absolutely incredible. I hope you're proud of what you've got!


----------



## Iocalhost

Good afternoon everyone,

I was sent a link to this thread from someone on Reddit who suggested I post here... so here's an overview of the issue I'm facing and thank you in advance for any help! (And if this isn't the correct place to post this, please let me know and I'll move this post elsewhere.)

I just finished my new build using the following components:

*Motherboard:* ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F
*BIOS:* Updated to Version 1403 (Dated April 1, 2022)

*RAM:* 32GB (2x16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 (CL36)
*CPU:* Intel Core i7-12700K
*AIO:* NZXT Kraken Z73 RGB (360mm)
*SSD:* 1TB Samsung 980 Pro (NVMe M.2, PCI Gen 4)
*PSU:* EVGA SuperNova P2 850W (Platinum+)
*GPU:* NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Founder's Edition
With XMP disabled, the system boots into Windows 11 and is as stable as can be (gamed for a few hours last night.) However, if I go into the BIOS, enable XMP and hit, "Save & Exit," a full 3-5 minutes go by before anything is displayed on the screen and, once something finally appears, it's a BIOS "warning" screen that says the device has booted into "BIOS Safe Mode" then lists a few possible reasons. The motherboard also displays a Yellow LED which the manual says is a "Memory (RAM) related issue." Considering this motherboard supports up-to DDR5-6400, I'd imagine DDR5-6000 wouldn't be too far of a reach. Also considering it only supports DDR5, I'm sort of stuck ─ should I return the RAM and try to find a more compatible make/model? Should I return the motherboard and RAM so I can purchase an entirely new/different setup that has known compatibility? Can I manually OC and target something like [email protected] in hopes that I can make this setup work? The only reason I hesitate for returns/exchanges is that the closest MicroCenter is ~2 hours away so it's not a fun trip for me. If I do have to go back, I'll just pay the $150 so they can build it and test all the parts.


----------



## Afferin

So 5000% is gonna have to do for now. I'm tired and want to sleep without leaving my PC on in its little hotbox of an office. But 6200CL32 is stable on 4x16. Or at least stable enough for me. :]












Iocalhost said:


> Good afternoon everyone,
> 
> I was sent a link to this thread from someone on Reddit who suggested I post here... so here's an overview of the issue I'm facing and thank you in advance for any help! (And if this isn't the correct place to post this, please let me know and I'll move this post elsewhere.)
> 
> I just finished my new build using the following components:
> 
> *Motherboard:* ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F
> *BIOS:* Updated to Version 1403 (Dated April 1, 2022)
> 
> *RAM:* 32GB (2x16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 (CL36)
> *CPU:* Intel Core i7-12700K
> *AIO:* NZXT Kraken Z73 RGB (360mm)
> *SSD:* 1TB Samsung 980 Pro (NVMe M.2, PCI Gen 4)
> *PSU:* EVGA SuperNova P2 850W (Platinum+)
> *GPU:* NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Founder's Edition
> With XMP disabled, the system boots into Windows 11 and is as stable as can be (gamed for a few hours last night.) However, if I go into the BIOS, enable XMP and hit, "Save & Exit," a full 3-5 minutes go by before anything is displayed on the screen and, once something finally appears, it's a BIOS "warning" screen that says the device has booted into "BIOS Safe Mode" then lists a few possible reasons. The motherboard also displays a Yellow LED which the manual says is a "Memory (RAM) related issue." Considering this motherboard supports up-to DDR5-6400, I'd imagine DDR5-6000 wouldn't be too far of a reach. Also considering it only supports DDR5, I'm sort of stuck ─ should I return the RAM and try to find a more compatible make/model? Should I return the motherboard and RAM so I can purchase an entirely new/different setup that has known compatibility? Can I manually OC and target something like [email protected] in hopes that I can make this setup work? The only reason I hesitate for returns/exchanges is that the closest MicroCenter is ~2 hours away so it's not a fun trip for me. If I do have to go back, I'll just pay the $150 so they can build it and test all the parts.


Sounds like it's just not training. If you're comfortable with some manual tuning, I'd just adjust voltages to get it to run. If you boot up HWinfo, can you show me your VDD2/IMC VDD, VDD, VDDQ, and VDDQ TX voltages? There's a good chance tuning these will get you to, at the very least, a booting pc


----------



## bscool

Iocalhost said:


> Good afternoon everyone,
> 
> I was sent a link to this thread from someone on Reddit who suggested I post here... so here's an overview of the issue I'm facing and thank you in advance for any help! (And if this isn't the correct place to post this, please let me know and I'll move this post elsewhere.)
> 
> I just finished my new build using the following components:
> 
> *Motherboard:* ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F
> *BIOS:* Updated to Version 1403 (Dated April 1, 2022)
> 
> *RAM:* 32GB (2x16GB) G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5-6000 (CL36)
> *CPU:* Intel Core i7-12700K
> *AIO:* NZXT Kraken Z73 RGB (360mm)
> *SSD:* 1TB Samsung 980 Pro (NVMe M.2, PCI Gen 4)
> *PSU:* EVGA SuperNova P2 850W (Platinum+)
> *GPU:* NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Founder's Edition
> With XMP disabled, the system boots into Windows 11 and is as stable as can be (gamed for a few hours last night.) However, if I go into the BIOS, enable XMP and hit, "Save & Exit," a full 3-5 minutes go by before anything is displayed on the screen and, once something finally appears, it's a BIOS "warning" screen that says the device has booted into "BIOS Safe Mode" then lists a few possible reasons. The motherboard also displays a Yellow LED which the manual says is a "Memory (RAM) related issue." Considering this motherboard supports up-to DDR5-6400, I'd imagine DDR5-6000 wouldn't be too far of a reach. Also considering it only supports DDR5, I'm sort of stuck ─ should I return the RAM and try to find a more compatible make/model? Should I return the motherboard and RAM so I can purchase an entirely new/different setup that has known compatibility? Can I manually OC and target something like [email protected] in hopes that I can make this setup work? The only reason I hesitate for returns/exchanges is that the closest MicroCenter is ~2 hours away so it's not a fun trip for me. If I do have to go back, I'll just pay the $150 so they can build it and test all the parts.


To start with do you have the memory in the correct slots 2 and 4 or a2 and b2(page 1-5 in manual). I know you probably have them in the correct slots but just to make sure.

After that you can try increasing vdd/vddq those are the main voltages for ddr5. Could try changing sa up or down a bit from .95 to 1.25 would be a guess.

I would test each memory stick 1 a time and if stable then test each memory slot to see if one is weak. Example if both sticks test good in slot A2 but b2 has issues you know it is that slot. Or vice versa both slots a2 and b2 work fine but 1 stick wont pass a memory test you know it is a weak stick.

Without testing like above you will just be throwing parts at it, if you dont know if it is the memory or MB.


----------



## Iocalhost

Afferin said:


> Sounds like it's just not training. If you're comfortable with some manual tuning, I'd just adjust voltages to get it to run. If you boot up HWinfo, can you show me your VDD2/IMC VDD, VDD, VDDQ, and VDDQ TX voltages? There's a good chance tuning these will get you to, at the very least, a booting pc


Before I was able to read your post, my internet went out (Charter Spectrum outage.) I’ll use my phone’s hotspot to download HWinfo to get you a screenshot, give me a few.


----------



## Iocalhost

bscool said:


> To start with do you have the memory in the correct slots 2 and 4 or a2 and b2(page 1-5 in manual). I know you probably have them in the correct slots but just to make sure.
> 
> After that you can try increasing vdd/vddq those are the main voltages for ddr5. Could try changing sa up or down a bit from .95 to 1.25 would be a guess.
> 
> I would test each memory stick 1 a time and if stable then test each memory slot to see if one is weak. Example if both sticks test good in slot A2 but b2 has issues you know it is that slot. Or vice versa both slots a2 and b2 work fine but 1 stick wont pass a memory test you know it is a weak stick.
> 
> Without testing like above you will just be throwing parts at it, if you dont know if it is the memory or MB.


Yes, both sticks are in the correct slots for this motherboard (A2 and B2.) I’ll test both the sticks and the slots then get back to you.

Also, for what it’s worth, this specific RAM is not on the QVL for this motherboard. I may very well return/exchange them for something on the QVL — any recommendations if so?


----------



## bscool

Iocalhost said:


> Yes, both sticks are in the correct slots for this motherboard (A2 and B2.) I’ll test both the sticks and the slots then get back to you.
> 
> Also, for what it’s worth, this specific RAM is not on the QVL for this motherboard. I may very well return/exchange them for something on the QVL — any recommendations if so?


I looked at Asus and your kit is on the QVL list.






ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global


ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI Intel LGA 1700 ATX motherboard, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, 16+1 power stages, WiFi 6E, Intel® 2.5 Gb Ethernet, four M.2 slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 USB Type-C®, SATA and Aura Sync



rog.asus.com





No reason that memory shouldnt work. it is Hynix and the easiest to get working for ddr5.

You could try setting XMP and then setting the memory to 5600 to see if it boots.

But I would test each stick and slot first or try increasing vdd/vddq slightly to see if it makes a difference. Like 1.4v to see if it even boots.


----------



## HOODedDutchman

Anyone have any suggestions for a mild oc on my 6000c40 Kingston fury hynix kit. Don't want to go too crazy with it and spend the next week letting my ocd take over to squeeze every bit out of it lol. Was thinking I could probably get away with a small bump in voltage to 1.4 or so and shoot for 6200-6400 with around 34-40-40-76. XMP 1 6000C40 runs fine at 38-38-38-76 default timings. Seems with XMP 1 on asus board (board vendor xmp) secondary timings are tightened somewhat based on main timings. I'd hardly call any of that an overclock tho lol. Get me like 2ns in Aida. Figured I could just get away with doing main timings and twr, trfc, and trefi without much hassle at these speeds.

Board is asus b660-i gaming.


----------



## Iocalhost

bscool said:


> I looked at Asus and your kit is on the QVL list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI Intel LGA 1700 ATX motherboard, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, 16+1 power stages, WiFi 6E, Intel® 2.5 Gb Ethernet, four M.2 slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 USB Type-C®, SATA and Aura Sync
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No reason that memory shouldnt work. it is Hynix and the easiest to get working for ddr5.
> 
> You could try setting XMP and then setting the memory to 5600 to see if it boots.
> 
> But I would test each stick and slot first or try increasing vdd/vddq slightly to see if it makes a difference. Like 1.4v to see if it even boots.


Since I last replied, I booted into Windows 11 Pro and started installing any/all missing drivers... part of that was Intel Management Engine (MEI.) After installing and updating Intel MEI, my BIOS settings were reset to default. Out of curiosity, I enabled the XMP II profile ("Load the DIMM's complete default XMP profile") and it's now working at [email protected] with no issues whatsoever.

Are there any pitfalls I should be concerned about by using the XMP II profile as opposed to the default/normal/regular XMP profile?


----------



## HOODedDutchman

Iocalhost said:


> Since I last replied, I booted into Windows 11 Pro and started installing any/all missing drivers... part of that was Intel Management Engine (MEI.) After installing and updating Intel MEI, my BIOS settings were reset to default. Out of curiosity, I enabled the XMP II profile ("Load the DIMM's complete default XMP profile") and it's now working at [email protected] with no issues whatsoever.
> 
> Are there any pitfalls I should be concerned about by using the XMP II profile as opposed to the default/normal/regular XMP profile?


Wouldn't xmp II be considered the default/normal/regular XMP profile since it's set by the dimms. XMP I should have ever so slightly more performance but XMP II is more likely to be stable. XMP I on my asus board seems to very slightly tune a few secondary timings in my setup vs XMP II but it's hardly anything and barely enough to make an actual difference. For whatever reason my memory gets set to 120trc as well on xmp I and II despite cpuz reading xmp 6000 as 144trc. This is my first asus board since z270 and seems kind of meh since the MSI board I've been rocking for the last 7 or 8 builds lol.

Edit: also I hope you didn't pay that price for that kit you linked. It's literally half that price on newegg.


----------



## Iocalhost

HOODedDutchman said:


> Wouldn't xmp II be considered the default/normal/regular XMP profile since it's set by the dimms. XMP I should have ever so slightly more performance but XMP II is more likely to be stable. XMP I on my asus board seems to very slightly tune a few secondary timings in my setup vs XMP II but it's hardly anything and barely enough to make an actual difference. For whatever reason my memory gets set to 120trc as well on xmp I and II despite cpuz reading xmp 6000 as 144trc. This is my first asus board since z270 and seems kind of meh since the MSI board I've been rocking for the last 7 or 8 builds lol.
> 
> Edit: also I hope you didn't pay that price for that kit you linked. It's literally half that price on newegg.


Nope! I would never! https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Iocalhost/saved/QC9rMp


----------



## HOODedDutchman

Not bad for just throwing a couple random numbers in. Went from 92k read and 70ns on xmp 6000c40 to 101k and 62ns on 6400c34. Upped frequency to 6400, dropped tcl to 34, dropped trfc2 to 440, upped trefi to 24960 and upped vdd to 1.4v. Any recommendations for where I should go from here? Probably going to try c32 and upping trefi more next. I'll be plenty happy with under 60ns with e cores enabled and CPU at stock.


----------



## bscool

Iocalhost said:


> Since I last replied, I booted into Windows 11 Pro and started installing any/all missing drivers... part of that was Intel Management Engine (MEI.) After installing and updating Intel MEI, my BIOS settings were reset to default. Out of curiosity, I enabled the XMP II profile ("Load the DIMM's complete default XMP profile") and it's now working at [email protected] with no issues whatsoever.
> 
> Are there any pitfalls I should be concerned about by using the XMP II profile as opposed to the default/normal/regular XMP profile?


As long as it works is all that matters. XMP 1 uses Asus settings and XMP 2 uses the memory vendors.









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


BIOS 0812 for Z690Stirx D4 has 99,8 Mhz blck bug...




www.overclock.net


----------



## glnn_23

Stability testing G.Skill 6400 @ 7000c32 

VDD/VDDQ 1.46, VDDQ TX 1.35 , CPU VDD2 1.43, SA 1.125

120mm fan over ram, Ambient temps pretty cool.


----------



## 7empe

glnn_23 said:


> Stability testing G.Skill 6400 @ 7000c32
> 
> VDD/VDDQ 1.46, VDDQ TX 1.35 , CPU VDD2 1.43, SA 1.125
> 
> 120mm fan over ram, Ambient temps pretty cool.
> 
> View attachment 2562672
> 
> View attachment 2562670
> View attachment 2562671


CPU at stock clocks?


----------



## glnn_23

7empe said:


> CPU at stock clocks?


No. Clocks set manually as in HWinfo. Did this as a start point for Y-Cruncher stress test.


----------



## sugi0lover

I don't use 7000Mhz, but someone asked me how low the voltage for 7000 CL32 can be.
Since this setup is not going to be used as my daily, I didn't try to find the lowest voltages. Anyway here it is.
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7000Mhz-32-41-40-28-310-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex
○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.440v / VDDQ 1.380v / VDDQ TX 1.400 / MC 1.25v / SA 1.00v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)









[Edit] Real-time testing


----------



## sblantipodi

Afferin said:


> So 5000% is gonna have to do for now. I'm tired and want to sleep without leaving my PC on in its little hotbox of an office. But 6200CL32 is stable on 4x16. Or at least stable enough for me. :]
> View attachment 2562529
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like it's just not training. If you're comfortable with some manual tuning, I'd just adjust voltages to get it to run. If you boot up HWinfo, can you show me your VDD2/IMC VDD, VDD, VDDQ, and VDDQ TX voltages? There's a good chance tuning these will get you to, at the very least, a booting pc


I confirm that 1505 BIOS is much easyer on my 4x16GB... 
6.2GHz C32 on 4x16GB, I think that it's a world record man.


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> I confirm that 1505 BIOS is much easyer on my 4x16GB...
> 6.2GHz C32 on 4x16GB, I think that it's a world record man.


Nice 🤩


----------



## sblantipodi

sblantipodi said:


> I confirm that 1505 BIOS is much easyer on my 4x16GB...
> 6.2GHz C32 on 4x16GB, I think that it's a world record man.


PS: I was joking more extensive tests failed, reverting to the old settings xD


----------



## QXE

Wow. I'm surprised this passed with tRDWR's of 18.

// 1.62 VDD, 1.57 VDDQ, 1.45 VDD2, 1.45 VDDQTX


----------



## z390e

I think I have my daily settings dialed in now for CPU.

Current AIDA64 on just XMP3 still no tweaking of RAM yet


----------



## Raphie

QXE said:


> Wow. I'm surprised this passed with tRDWR's of 18.
> 
> // 1.62 VDD, 1.57 VDDQ, 1.45 VDD2, 1.45 VDDQTX
> View attachment 2562846


I'm not,
this is also 12900k, stock, only 6600Mhz with better timings ONLY at 1.410v  (being Karhu stable)


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> I'm not,
> this is also 12900k, stock, only 6600Mhz with better timings ONLY at 1.410v  (being Karhu stable)
> 
> View attachment 2562858


What are you talking about? Your 63s vs 65s in ycruncher? 16core vs 8 core


----------



## db000

Not posted in a while, but I read this thread everyday!

My updated daily, nothing new really. My success recipe was actually reverting back to 1302, had problems getting 1403, 1503 or 0061 *100%* Karhu stable. 10000%+ passed now, next up is some hours of gameplay. I'll give 1505 a go (and 0061 another try) later. I know I can boot 7000 c32 on 1503, getting it stable is a whole other story. 6800 have never been successful either. Early Apex board, "no date 2021".

Freq 6600-30-38-38-28-360-2T
VDD 1.57
VDDQ 1.52
VDDQ TX 1.52
SA 1.00
MC 1.32500


----------



## QXE

Raphie said:


> I'm not,
> this is also 12900k, stock, only 6600Mhz with better timings ONLY at 1.410v  (being Karhu stable)
> 
> View attachment 2562858


Well I had hci and other stuff open in the background and i cba rerun haha


----------



## jeiselramos

Pushed almost to the limit my Kingston 6000C40 in 1T
6400 28-37-37-28 1T
1.61 vdd 1.55 vddq
1.25vddqtx
1.26 vdd2


----------



## sugi0lover

deleted


----------



## Raphie

Improved 6600 /2T

left old / right new


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Improved 6600 /2T
> 
> left old / right new
> View attachment 2562916


7000 is impossible for you?


----------



## Raphie

No, but don’t want 1.45v+
this is 1.4v 
I can do 6666 @ 1.42v, going 6800 is already 1.47v
7K is 1.52v only to post can’t than even complete y-cruncher yet.
point of diminishing returns for me, exponential heat and power consumption, with marginal gains.
As I’m on air, exploring that sweetspot further is more compelling for me.


----------



## Raphie

6666-2T


----------



## QXE

Latency of DDR5-7000 CL30 1T OC. It is on par with a friend's DDR4-4133 G1 OC for low load latency.

Edit: correction.


----------



## Raphie

can someone explain why a smaller tRAS is not always faster? like some other settings it seems to have a sweetspot that performs best and lower or higher values bring worse results?
Same for tREFI there is a read increase up to around a value 48000, after that benches like aida stay equal, y-cruncher actually consistently lower. And mouse movement under load just gets more “jumpy”


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> can someone explain why a smaller tRAS is not always faster? like some other settings it seems to have a sweetspot that performs best and lower or higher values bring worse results?
> Same for tREFI there is a read increase up to around a value 48000, after that benches like aida stay equal, y-cruncher actually consistently lower. And mouse movement under load just gets more “jumpy”


Unstable or something Msi illness?


----------



## Raphie

Possibly, It completes Y-Cruncher p2.5 just about 0.5 to 1sec slower
I’m just trying to find the rationale. The game for me being the highest benchmarks with the lowest possible voltage. Calculated as Mhz/v Karhu/Y-cruncher stable.


----------



## bscool

Raphie said:


> can someone explain why a smaller tRAS is not always faster? like some other settings it seems to have a sweetspot that performs best and lower or higher values bring worse results?
> Same for tREFI there is a read increase up to around a value 48000, after that benches like aida stay equal, y-cruncher actually consistently lower. And mouse movement under load just gets more “jumpy”


Depends what you use to test. Aida photoworx and GB3 will show improvements. Also all benchmarks have run to run variance.


----------



## Raphie

Parking 2T improvements for a moment, back to 1T
So below is 6400 1T which is Karhu and Y-cruncher p2.5 stable with everything on AUTO @ 1.395v
leaving everything on AUTO changing to 6600Mhz does not post, increasing, in steps, up to dram 1.5v still doesn't post
Any suggestions on how to make 6600 1T post (don't care about timings atm, just want entry)


----------



## Groove2013

Raphie said:


> Parking 2T improvements for a moment, back to 1T
> So below is 6400 1T which is Karhu and Y-cruncher p2.5 stable with everything on AUTO @ 1.395v
> leaving everything on AUTO changing to 6600Mhz does not post, increasing, in steps, up to dram 1.5v still doesn't post
> Any suggestions on how to make 6600 1T post (don't care about timings atm, just want entry)
> 
> View attachment 2563017


everything auto, other than vdimm is your main problem.


----------



## Raphie

Auto should be most conservative settings, no? any suggestions what to change? any of my 2T 6600/6666/6800/7000 settings don't work for 1T
I'm asking for help, not a blanket statement


----------



## Raphie

Interesting?


----------



## fedx

Anyone try the latest ASUS Z690 HERO BIOS 1505? What's new?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Auto should be most conservative settings, no? any suggestions what to change? any of my 2T 6600/6666/6800/7000 settings don't work for 1T
> I'm asking for help, not a blanket statement


Sa offset auto 
And you need to tweak CPU vddq to train (higher≠better)
And vdd2 to stabilize 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> Sa offset auto
> And you need to tweak CPU vddq to train (higher≠better)
> And vdd2 to stabilize
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


Which bios are you running can you post dragonball screenshot + vdd vddq setting?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Which bios are you running can you post dragonball screenshot + vdd vddq setting?


A.30

This is 6400C28 1T
I'm working on 6600C30 1T rn


----------



## Raphie

Thank You! Really appreciate this.


----------



## Raphie

6800 110K AIDA, doesn't pass Y-cruncher yet though, even @ 1.55v


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> A.30
> 
> This is 6400C28 1T
> I'm working on 6600C30 1T rn
> View attachment 2563029
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


Can't read your screenshot, can you upload higher res?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Can't read your screenshot, can you upload higher res?


try now


----------



## Raphie

Yes!  ThnX!


----------



## Raphie

VDD / VDDQ Settings?!? The Unify-X BIOS ups VDDQ when you change VDD. Today I learned I can put VDDQ back to AUTO and in HWinfo it now just sits there at 1.395v not cuasing any errors in Karhu or Y-Cruncher. While the VDD purrs along @ 1.47v while testing 6800mHz.

I thought they needed to be the same, but above implies differently? saves a lot in temps too 

Thoughts?


----------



## Raphie

My fastest 6666 2T yet....


----------



## Nizzen

fedx said:


> Anyone try the latest ASUS Z690 HERO BIOS 1505? What's new?


Minor improvements. Try it and repport back


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Interesting?


What is interesting with Micron DDr5?


----------



## Raphie

True, but there is still good theory in there.


----------



## Raphie

Seems we have a winner:
63.2sec Y-Cruncher
109Gb read in AIDA
48.5ns MLC Latency
And all of this with only 1.395v 
While I type this I just passed 1000%, now up towards 20k%


----------



## Raphie

3K and counting....


----------



## QXE

tRTP of 6 on Dark. Simple bypass by setting tRDPRE instead of tRTP itself.


----------



## Acegr

Msi mag tomahawk z690 wifi
Kingston Fury 2x16gb 5600mhz. They're Hynix.

Could someone give me some settings to try for 6000mhz? I tried just closing the xmp profile 1 and changing the freq on 6000 g2 and leave everything else on auto and memtest is giving multiple errors. Cpu, gpu are water cooled but not RAM.

Thanks


----------



## Raphie

QXE said:


> tRTP of 6 on Dark. Simple bypass by setting tRDPRE instead of tRTP itself.
> 
> View attachment 2563110


CPU clock? Ram VDD Voltage? 58,5xx I can only dream about. Stock 12900K + 6666Mhz is 64.1xx for me


----------



## Raphie

Acegr said:


> Msi mag tomahawk z690 wifi
> Kingston Fury 2x16gb 5600mhz. They're Hynix.
> 
> Could someone give me some settings to try for 6000mhz? I tried just closing the xmp profile 1 and changing the freq on 6000 g2 and leave everything else on auto and memtest is giving multiple errors. Cpu, gpu are water cooled but not RAM.
> 
> Thanks


Needs 1.42v VDD but for sustained mem testing you need a big ass ventilator, as just a 12 or 14cm chassis fan won't cut it for the heat build up.
when hovering the mem towards 58c+ it will crap out.


----------



## QXE

Raphie said:


> CPU clock? Ram VDD Voltage? 58,5xx I can only dream about. Stock 12900K + 6666Mhz is 64.1xx for me


CPU is 5.2 for daily but due to AVX512 limits it was 5.1 in the test. Ram VDD is same as before 1.62V.


----------



## Acegr

Hello and thanks for your message. The thing is I don't want something that excessive, I would just like 6000 freq instead of 5600 and tighter timings for 24/7 use. I have no way of checking ram temps too. Any ideas on the exact settings?


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> Needs 1.42v VDD but for sustained mem testing you need a big ass ventilator, as just a 12 or 14cm chassis fan won't cut it for the heat build up.
> when hovering the mem towards 58c+ it will crap out.
> View attachment 2563111


Hello and thanks for your message. The thing is I don't want something that excessive, I would just like 6000 freq instead of 5600 and tighter timings for 24/7 use. I have no way of checking ram temps too. Any ideas on the exact settings?

disregard my previous message. Didn't see I haven't quoted you.


----------



## QXE

Acegr said:


> Hello and thanks for your message. The thing is I don't want something that excessive, I would just like 6000 freq instead of 5600 and tighter timings for 24/7 use. I have no way of checking ram temps too. Any ideas on the exact settings?
> 
> disregard my previous message. Didn't see I haven't quoted you.


HWinfo has temp readings for the ram. As for frequency and timings, it’s all about finding the right voltages.


----------



## Raphie

Acegr said:


> Hello and thanks for your message. The thing is I don't want something that excessive, I would just like 6000 freq instead of 5600 and tighter timings for 24/7 use. I have no way of checking ram temps too. Any ideas on the exact settings?


These will work on 6000 too, just leave VVD(Q) on auto


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> These will work on 6000 too, just leave VVD(Q) on auto


Auto isn't your XMP voltage?


----------



## Raphie

You’ll need to check.
OC’ing is finicky, you need to commit time and understand the basics. It’s not about obtaining the right screenshots and “set and forget” every system and kit is different.


----------



## Raphie

I want to build a better ram cooler than a 14cm chassis fan pointed as close as possible
a full power 14cm is still not enough to keep ram on air below 60c Under sustained (2h+) loads
what do you guys think of 2 of these? NF-A4x20 PWM
Since they are smaller, they’ll be better / closer to position. 
I can PWM them on the ram sensor so they only turn on above 40c or so.


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> These will work on 6000 too, just leave VVD(Q) on auto


Won't they be getting too hot? Are those settings safe for 24/7? What about the other volts? All on auto?


QXE said:


> HWinfo has temp readings for the ram. As for frequency and timings, it’s all about finding the right voltages.


Hmm, could I have a photo of what they should look like? I've triple checked my hwinfo and I can't find ram temps.

Thanks


----------



## Raphie

1.39 VDD Stable  If you have higher AIDA readings at stock 12900k with same or lower voltage, please do share (10k% Karhu stable only)


----------



## ChaosAD

Raphie said:


> 1.39 VDD Stable  If you have higher AIDA readings at stock 12900k with same or lower voltage, please do share (10k% Karhu stable only)


Isn't your [email protected] a little too high? You are not stable with less?
What VDD you need for 6800c30, have you tried that?


----------



## Raphie

SA is auto and fine. Testing 6800 right now, but this tight, it is north of 1.5v
I can boot 1.43v, even finish Y-Cruncher and memtest, but Karhu craps already out below 100%, so still major issues.
since I’m on air, I’m just looking for the highest throughput, lowest latency <1.45v
but it seems 107.xx Gb read can be done @ 1.395v 109.xx Gb already needs 1.525v
So I can play all I want, trying to find the ideal settings, but there are limits of what’s possible.


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> SA is auto and fine. Testing 6800 right now, but this tight, it is north of 1.5v
> I can boot 1.43v, even finish Y-Cruncher and memtest, but Karhu craps already out below 100%, so still major issues.
> since I’m on air, I’m just looking for the highest throughput, lowest latency <1.45v
> but it seems 107.xx Gb read can be done @ 1.395v 109.xx Gb already needs 1.525v
> So I can play all I want, trying to find the ideal settings, but there are limits of what’s possible.


My cruncher bench is so bad for some reason.. Here is my info, any ideas what I should change? The volts on ram also seem too high no? I've set both VDD and VDDQ to 1.425


----------



## Raphie

Promising 6600 settings....


----------



## Raphie

Above is stable, stopped by me @ 8800%
tRTP on Auto (23) is set by tRDPRE (on auto = 23) in Advanced Timing Configuration.
By putting tRDPRE manually on 12, leaving tRTP on auto, tRTP becomes 12 as well.
But the value of 23 (leaving tRTP & tRDPRE on auto) is giving about a 500 higher read in AIDA, how come?

Y-cruncher also consistently goes from 63.3 to 66.2 when using 12?!?


----------



## Acegr

I got a weird problem I might have from start but never noticed. My 2 dims are these









One shows a XMP option the other one doesn't. If I select an xmp profile on bios when I restart, on bios and on task manager it will only show 16GB instead of 32GB. The same happens If I manually set the freq at the ones of the XMP profile , 5200-5600. I can load any other freq fine without losing a dim in the process. I tried different bios, same issue.

The other weird thing is, when I load the pc and I do a y-cruncher it does a normal speed like this








If I close this and I try to do, no matter how many times, the score will be absurd - it doesn't utilize my cpu afterwards.









Any idea what's going on cause this is driving me crazy..

My cpu is stable at 5ghz p all core, 4ghz e all core, ring 40 @ 1.25v +LLC3.

I'm trying a whole day to deal with those rams..


----------



## z390e

@Acegr trying running y-cruncher from the benchmate suite of tests.

I removed y-cruncher and stuff I had stand-alone installed, then I re-instaled it from benchmate.


----------



## Acegr

z390e said:


> @Acegr trying running y-cruncher from the benchmate suite of tests.
> 
> I removed y-cruncher and stuff I had stand-alone installed, then I re-instaled it from benchmate.


Υeah now it works. Any idea what can I do about my 16gb disappearing whenever I overclock? Both bios and task manager show 16gb.


----------



## z390e

@Acegr are you certain they are the exact same kind of RAM? You don't have mismatched RAM do you?

I would power off the machine, remove the RAM completely, and carefully reseat it.

If you still see the issue, remove both RAM again, then power on with just the one that isn't showing XMP and see if you can set that.


----------



## sblantipodi

fedx said:


> Anyone try the latest ASUS Z690 HERO BIOS 1505? What's new?


As always:
1) Improved stability
2) Improved performance


----------



## Acegr

z390e said:


> @Acegr are you certain they are the exact same kind of RAM? You don't have mismatched RAM do you?
> 
> I would power off the machine, remove the RAM completely, and carefully reseat it.
> 
> If you still see the issue, remove both RAM again, then power on with just the one that isn't showing XMP and see if you can set that.


here, 1 shows xmp 3.0, the other doesn't. They were the same kit.. I tried everything..


----------



## Raphie

and we are below 63sec.
some unorthodox settings to some (tFAW 32 anyone ?!?  ), but the performance is there
BTW I just learned that TWRRD_dr & dd follow tCWL -18


----------



## 7empe

Work on cpu clocks a little bit. 6600c30 here.


----------



## Raphie

What’s your ddr VDD here? i haven’t been able to train cl30 at all yet.
your cpu is OC’ed as well. Both CPU and ram WC?
can you run that again with CPU at stock? Curious what the gap then is.


----------



## Acegr

Ι'll DOA my ram kit. What should I get?

Kingston Fury Beast 32GB DDR5 RAM (hynix)
G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB DDR5 RAM (samsung)


----------



## SuperMumrik

Acegr said:


> Kingston Fury Beast 32GB DDR5 RAM (hynix)


Definitely this one


----------



## Acegr

SuperMumrik said:


> Definitely this one


I ordered 32gb of 5600... fingers crossed I won't have issues again... Is this thing usual for many ppl or is it just me that was facing issues? I've never had issues with RAM before yet again this is my first time using DDR5.


----------



## Raphie

and I've got a new stable baseline to work from 6800 @ 1.44v VDD


----------



## Raphie

Now testing tFAW 24, 16/18/20/22 did not pass Y-Cruncher 2.5b


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> Now testing tFAW 24, 16/18/20/22 did not pass Y-Cruncher 2.5b


whats your process? You change 1 timing and you run y-cruncher 2.5b or how many? When do you consider it stable to move on and mess with another timing?


----------



## Raphie

Get a conservative baseline
Every setting that is triggered by another setting stays on AUTO, as they are intwined (i.e tWR or tWRRD_dx), every setting that is autonomous is tweaked for performance
1 setting at a time, 1 step at a time, first primary then secondary then tertiary)
All set in BIOS now while in Windows, it needs to be accepted by training
after the initial 10K test in Karhu, I test every change for at least 1000% and when I had 4 or 5, at least for 5000%
My experience is that once the primaries are locked and the VDD required to pass Karhu is found. If most of the other changes after that survive 1000% Karku you're good to carry on. But once happy it needs to pass both 5 out of 5 Y-cruncher and 10k% coverage Karhu.
Also finding, lower is not always better, the data needs to flow, not to be congested by timings with are lower, but out of band. It's about sweetspots, not about everything being just lower.
On top of that looking for the most efficient settings Mhz/v winning 20ms in Y-Cruncher, but needing to from 1.44 to 1.52 doesn't make sense for me. Path of diminishing returns.


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> Get a conservative baseline
> Every setting that is triggered by another setting stays on AUTO, as they are intwined (i.e tWR or tWRRD_dx), every setting that is autonomous is tweaked for performance
> 1 setting at a time, 1 step at a time, first primary then secondary then tertiary)
> All set in BIOS now while in Windows, it needs to be accepted by training
> after the initial 10K test in Karhu, I test every change for at least 1000% and when I had 4 or 5, at least for 5000%
> My experience is that once the primaries are locked and the VDD required to pass Karhu is found. If most of the other changes after that survive 1000% Karku you're good to carry on. But once happy it needs to pass both 5 out of 5 Y-cruncher and 10k% coverage Karhu.
> Also finding, lower is not always better, the data needs to flow, not to be congested by timings with are lower, but out of band. It's about sweetspots, not about everything being just lower.
> On top of that looking for the most efficient settings Mhz/v winning 20ms in Y-Cruncher, but needing to from 1.44 to 1.52 doesn't make sense for me. Path of diminishing returns.


Any free app I can use other than karhu?


----------



## Raphie

You can use memtest, but Karhu finds errors memtest doesn't and I've not yet had memtest fail when Karhu passed. It's only 10$ and well worth it IMHO.


----------



## affxct

Acegr said:


> Ι'll DOA my ram kit. What should I get?
> 
> Kingston Fury Beast 32GB DDR5 RAM (hynix)
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB DDR5 RAM (samsung)


What does DOA'ing a kit mean?


----------



## QXE

Acegr said:


> Any free app I can use other than karhu?


TM5 with Extreme1 config or 1usmus_v3 for 20 cycles works. I used them both and they covered errors just as good as karhu or HCI.


----------



## Acegr

affxct said:


> What does DOA'ing a kit mean?


Dead on arrival. Returning for money back or replacement.


----------



## glnn_23

Raphie said:


> Now testing tFAW 24, 16/18/20/22 did not pass Y-Cruncher 2.5b


Have you tried running the Y-Cruncher Stress test . All tests , 3 or 4 iterations.
Input 1 , 7 , 0

To me this makes more sense than running a 60 sec test of 2.5b


----------



## sugi0lover

I see some poeple in my region using this ram cooler and having good cooling result like 35C while running all those ram stability tests with a fan.
It's called *Dragoon N422*.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Work on cpu clocks a little bit. 6600c30 here.
> 
> View attachment 2563225


You find 1505 good?


----------



## QXE

sugi0lover said:


> I see some poeple in my region using this ram cooler and having good cooling result like 35C while running all those ram stability tests with a fan.
> It's called *Dragoon N422*.
> View attachment 2563286
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563285


This was sold out everywhere i checked but it looks really nice.


----------



## Acegr

QXE said:


> This was sold out everywhere i checked but it looks really nice.











Xigmatek - Dragoon N422 RAM Cooler


<div align="justify"> <b>Dragoon-N422, HDT family cooler for RAM module, is designed for the demand of high efficiency cooler to satisfy cooling high temperature RAM module, high clock speeds and raised voltage. The revolutionary thermodynamic design lowers the temperature as well as extends...



www.xoxide.com


----------



## Raphie

glnn_23 said:


> Have you tried running the Y-Cruncher Stress test . All tests , 3 or 4 iterations.
> Input 1 , 7 , 0
> 
> To me this makes more sense than running a 60 sec test of 2.5b


Not yet, good tip.


----------



## tubs2x4

deleted


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> You find 1505 good?


Better below 6800, but forget about getting 6800 CL 30 stable as it was on 110x and earlier.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Better below 6800, but forget about getting 6800 CL 30 stable as it was on 110x and earlier.


I'm kinda struggling. My board is extremely quirky. I started making some progress last night on 0086, but it eventually would error out. Need to find the correct SA value for XMP first so I have a baseline to springboard off of.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> I'm kinda struggling. My board is extremely quirky. I started making some progress last night on 0086, but it eventually would error out. Need to find the correct SA value for XMP first so I have a baseline to springboard off of.


I was fighting with ddr5/apex oc since January. Tried every bios, every ucode possible. Now it is time to start using this setup, because next cpu/mobo gen is just around the corner and the whole oc circus starts again


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> I was fighting with ddr5/apex oc since January. Tried every bios, every ucode possible. Now it is time to start using this setup, because next cpu/mobo gen is just around the corner and the whole oc circus starts again


I'm not really looking for much out of it. I just want 6600C30 CR1 tbh. I booted it easily but it just seems impossible to stabilize.


----------



## jomama22

QXE said:


> tRTP of 6 on Dark. Simple bypass by setting tRDPRE instead of tRTP itself.
> 
> View attachment 2563110


Where are you seeing tRDPRE in bios? Can't find it at all. Or at you changing it in Oas?


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> I'm not really looking for much out of it. I just want 6600C30 CR1 tbh. I booted it easily but it just seems impossible to stabilize.


I can boot 6666c30 CR1 every single time. Same with 6600 cr1. No way to stabilize it, no matter the voltage, timings and other voodoo things I tried. It's just the way it is with this gen, some are lucky with 7000 cr1, others are struggling with 6600 cr1. Very uneven manufacturing quality.


----------



## SoldierRBT

7empe said:


> I can boot 6666c30 CR1 every single time. Same with 6600 cr1. No way to stabilize it, no matter the voltage, timings and other voodoo things I tried. It's just the way it is with this gen, some are lucky with 7000 cr1, others are struggling with 6600 cr1. Very uneven manufacturing quality.


It's the board. I have the same issues with my Apex. 6500C28 1T stable on every stress test but it would CTD in games all the time. 6400C28 1T was the highest stable I could use for daily. Same sticks and CPU are doing 7000 1T and 7100 1T on the Dark. I've never experienced BSOD or CTD on the Dark in gaming if it passes y-cruncher stress test and TM5/Karhu.


----------



## Raphie

I’ve got settings where it passes Karhu, but it craps out on Y-cruncher every 1 out of 5, very strange…


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> I’ve got settings where it passes Karhu, but it craps out on Y-cruncher every 1 out of 5, very strange…


In my case it was cpu that is 5180 MHz heavy avx-stable, but not 5200. However, battlefield is happy with octvb and 5300 MHz.


----------



## Raphie

My CPU is at stock, but on air, when disabling AVX it passes Y-cruncher every time, though with ridiculous scores (more than 2x as high) Can I then put my Y-Cruncher fails (always after the 2nd 72% ) down to AVX heat? > ConvolutionFailedException - coefficient is too large.
Don't have that problem at 6666 or lower. Again with CPU stock, as I only OC mem.
If I wait 3mins before the next run it passes. If I rerun within a min, it fails....

The other challenge is Karhu seems to favor VDD of 1.44 for 6800 cl32, Y-cruncher passes more with 1.47 VDD, with 1.47 Karhu stops even before 25% coverage, consistently, it's maddening


----------



## QXE

jomama22 said:


> Where are you seeing tRDPRE in bios? Can't find it at all. Or at you changing it in Oas?


So I just learned tRDPRE isnt default with the bios. I used grub to fully unlock my bios.


----------



## sblantipodi

Raphie said:


> You can use memtest, but Karhu finds errors memtest doesn't and I've not yet had memtest fail when Karhu passed. It's only 10$ and well worth it IMHO.


In my experience it's the complete opposite.
Karhu is generally faster in finding errors than Memtest when there are big instability but when you need to find small instabilities memtest86 (the one that doesn't need the OS) is the way to go.
Three or four run of memtest in different moments prooves that your system is stable. (on 64GB a memtest run requires 2 hours and 20 minutes)

10 hours of Karhu can detect nothing and fail five minutes later.
Karhu works in windows and it can't even test all the memory since part of the memory is used by the OS.


----------



## SuperNuts

It's been a while since I've overclocked, so I apologize. I just recently got a 12900KF and some G.skill PC6400 RAM. I then learned Alderlake's advertised IMC speed is 4800mhz and I can only get my RAM stable at 6000mhz. How are people achieving 7000mhz etc? Is there a way to OC the IMC further? It looks like nowadays the CPU is just OC'd via the multiplier, is that right? Asus z690-e mobo if that matters.


----------



## QXE

SuperNuts said:


> It's been a while since I've overclocked, so I apologize. I just recently got a 12900KF and some G.skill PC6400 RAM. I then learned Alderlake's advertised IMC speed is 4800mhz and I can only get my RAM stable at 6000mhz. How are people achieving 7000mhz etc? Is there a way to OC the IMC further? It looks like nowadays the CPU is just OC'd via the multiplier, is that right? Asus z690-e mobo if that matters.


You need a 2 dimm board and a good amount of effort.


----------



## Afferin

QXE said:


> You need a 2 dimm board and a good amount of effort.


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you don't need a 2 DIMM board for good results. See my post history or look at the results on the DDR5 OCing spreadsheet and you'll see I've gotten as far as 6933 stable on a 4-DIMM Z690 Formula.


----------



## QXE

Afferin said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you don't need a 2 DIMM board for good results. See my post history or look at the results on the DDR5 OCing spreadsheet and you'll see I've gotten as far as 6933 stable on a 4-DIMM Z690 Formula.


That is a one off, and a damn lucky one. Even if the timings arent great 6933 on a 4 dimmer is something ive never seen


----------



## Afferin

QXE said:


> That is a one off, and a damn lucky one. Even if the timings arent great 6933 on a 4 dimmer is something ive never seen


I've actually been experimenting on a second Z690 Formula and have gotten pretty good results on it too! I think the Formula is kind of a sleeper board; it has great results and no one uses it :'D


----------



## QXE

Afferin said:


> I've actually been experimenting on a second Z690 Formula and have gotten pretty good results on it too! I think the Formula is kind of a sleeper board; it has great results and no one uses it :'D


The only problem is the dark is 30 usd more.


----------



## affxct

[Repost from Maximus forum]

Ok guys, something really really weird happened. I flashed BIOS 0090 on my Apex's 2nd BIOS chip. I did a dumb run of stock/XMP just to see if I could maybe get it working and somehow I managed to get it Linpack (relatively) stable. I decided to flash 0090 onto my primary chip and run identical settings.

I do the test again and find it error on the first calculation. So then you say that surely it was just not stable. I flip to my secondary chip and it's passing again without issue. Before you say I messed up a setting, I took pictures with my phone to make sure I matched the BIOSs setting for setting. Not sure what to think XD.

Thoughts?

Update:
Drained power and cleared CMOS for around 15 seconds after first switching back to the primary chip. It seems to be behaving correctly now. Passing the same test for the third time now. Looks like this is the BIOS revision my board likes. Funnily enough it's the revision that the dude who shipped my board back to Amazon last used.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> [Repost from Maximus forum]
> 
> *Looks like this is the BIOS revision my board likes. Funnily enough it's the revision that the dude who shipped my board back to Amazon last used.*


If 2021 Apex it could be the a1/first slot.

To test have just 1 dim in 2nd slot with say 6800c32/42/[email protected] run Karhu and adjust voltages until can pass say 5000%.

Then remove stick and test slot 1. If errors quickly likely know 2021 Apex issue.

Another way to test is see how high you can boot 2nd slot. Say slot 2 boots 7400 and slot 1 only boots 7000 likely bad/weak MB.

3rd way to test is see how high each slot can run y cruncher. Say slot 2 runs 7200 and slot 1 only 6800 weak/bad MB.

Edit so this is a returned/used from Amazon Apex? Pretty much guarantee bad/weak MB.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> If 2021 Apex it could be the a1/first slot.
> 
> To test have just 1 dim in 2nd slot with say 6800c32/42/[email protected] run Karhu and adjust voltages until can pass say 5000%.
> 
> Then remove stick and test slot 1. If errors quickly likely know 2021 Apex issue.
> 
> Another way to test is see how high you can boot 2nd slot. Say slot 2 boots 7400 and slot 1 only boots 7000 likely bad/weak MB.
> 
> 3rd way to test is see how high each slot can run y cruncher. Say slot 2 runs 7200 and slot 1 only 6800 weak/bad MB.
> 
> Edit so this is a returned/used from Amazon Apex? Pretty much guarantee bad/weak MB.


I've done a few test boots already just to check how far it scales, and with my kit and IMC, it doesn't get particularly far even at 1.55V on VDD. I'm alright with 6666 though. I'm just hoping for CR1.

I'm not sure if you saw the update, but a CMOS clear fixed it up. I'm not too sure if the CMOS is related to each particular BIOS chip, but it would make sense as I'd done a bunch of testing on the primary and after clearing CMOS, it seemed to train correctly with the settings ported over from the secondary chip. 

I'm just glad I finally got XMP to run at auto settings (cold boot re-test as well) because I can finally move up to 6600-6800 now with manual settings. I kinda thought my board was just awful for a moment there. No XMP on auto is usually indicative of a cursed sample XD.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> I've done a few test boots already just to check how far it scales, and with my kit and IMC, it doesn't get particularly far even at 1.55V on VDD. I'm alright with 6666 though. I'm just hoping for CR1.
> 
> I'm not sure if you saw the update, but a CMOS clear fixed it up. I'm not too sure if the CMOS is related to each particular BIOS chip, but it would make sense as I'd done a bunch of testing on the primary and after clearing CMOS, it seemed to train correctly with the settings ported over from the secondary chip.
> 
> I'm just glad I finally got XMP to run because I can finally move up to 6600-6800 now. I kinda thought my board was just awful for a moment there.


If it is a returned MB I would bet it has a bad slot 1. You will see as it will test stable and then a reboot or day later fails.

No reason someone would return a good Apex. They are rare to find.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> If it is a returned MB I would bet it has a bad slot 1. You will see as it will test stable and then a reboot or day later fails.
> 
> No reason someone would return a good Apex. They are rare to find.


I know what you mean. I would assume they returned it because they couldn't do 6800+. My board trains 7000 but doesn't load into Windows. It tops out pretty hard at 6666 and I'd assume that's why he wasn't thrilled with it. I had a Z690-F a while back and I found that if you wanted to check for the reboot thing, all you'd need to do is shut down, drain, and potentially clear CMOS. If you trained in and were stable thereafter, you were pretty much golden. 

The only way to really not be stable is if fast boot and MCH are disabled. As long as they're both enabled there shouldn't be any training issues. This might be a really bold statement, but on all 3 ADL boards I've messed with thus far, MRC fast boot seems to either be better or equally as good. That might sound a bit weird. 

Back to the Amazon thing; I'm kinda hoping that all the person who returned it wanted was a shot at a 2022 board. I will say, the etching and solder joints look good so I was surprised when I initially was seeing instability and weirdness. It turns out all the BIOSs I tested just didn't agree with my particular sample.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> I know what you mean. I would assume they returned it because they couldn't do 6800+. My board trains 7000 but doesn't load into Windows. It tops out pretty hard at 6666 and I'd assume that's why he wasn't thrilled with it. I had a Z690-F a while back and I found that if you wanted to check for the reboot thing, all you'd need to do is shut down, drain, and potentially clear CMOS. If you trained in and were stable thereafter, you were pretty much golden.
> 
> The only way to really not be stable is if fast boot and MCH are disabled. As long as they're both enabled there shouldn't be any training issues. This might be a really bold statement, but on all 3 ADL boards I've messed with thus far, MRC fast boot seems to either be better or equally as good. That might sound a bit weird.
> 
> Back to the Amazon thing; I'm kinda hoping that all the person who returned it wanted was a shot at a 2022 board. I will say, the etching and solder joints look good so I was surprised when I initially was seeing instability and weirdness. It turns out all the BIOSs I tested just didn't agree with my particular sample.


Hmm that doesnt sound good if it wont even boot into Windows at 7000. I have 2021 and it boots/benches 7200 but has stability issues past 6400. 6666c32 can pass Karhu but will have stabilty issues and fail Karhu if I make any changes in bios and reboot.

Also have 2022 Apex and boots and runs GB3 at 7400. 7000c30 Karhuy cruncher stable with same cpu and memory.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> Hmm that doesnt sound good if it wont even boot into Windows at 7000. I have 2021 and it boots/benches 7200 but has stability issues past 6400. 6666c32 can pass Karhu but will have stabilty issues and fail Karhu if I make any changes in bios and reboot.
> 
> Also have 2022 Apex and boots and runs GB3 at 7400. 7000c30 Karhuy cruncher stable with same cpu and memory.


You're right, it definitely isn't a great sample I have. The idea of 7400 is nice, but in truth I was just hoping for 6600CR1. The kit I have is a 6400 40-40-40 1.4V Adata Caster kit (only 6400 kit in my country) and I downgraded my SP 96 to a SP 79 because I was trying to sell my ADL setup to downgrade at the time. Between the SP 81 and SP 96 I've owned, I didn't really notice a big discrepancy in IMC quality, so I'm not sure if my current SP 79 is a factor. 

7000CR2 would be cool, I'll maybe give a few different settings changes a shot and see what happens now that I'm finally on a BIOS that's working. I kinda doubt it though as my board likely would never have landed in the Amazon Warehouse. My DIMMs have a RAM cooler sitting on them directly, but I don't know if I have enough cooling to daily 1.56V tbh.


----------



## z390e

Raphie said:


> My CPU is at stock, but on air, when disabling AVX it passes Y-cruncher every time, though with ridiculous scores (more than 2x as high) Can I then put my Y-Cruncher fails (always after the 2nd 72% ) down to AVX heat? > ConvolutionFailedException - coefficient is too large.
> Don't have that problem at 6666 or lower. Again with CPU stock, as I only OC mem.
> If I wait 3mins before the next run it passes. If I rerun within a min, it fails....


What is your AVX offset set to?

If you run y-cruncher with hwinfo open does it show errors at the bottom?


----------



## Raphie

Default offset (128?) no errors in hw-info


----------



## db000

Picked up the Unify-X, lets see what this baby can do! 🙏🏻


----------



## Nelfhunt

MSI Z690i Unify
6933 CL32, air cooled.
On the way to 7000.


----------



## Nizzen

db000 said:


> Picked up the Unify-X, lets see what this baby can do! 🙏🏻
> View attachment 2563382


It better do 7000+


----------



## db000

Nizzen said:


> It better do 7000+


Oooh I hope so! Installed now.

My first MSI board in ages, can't really say I find my way around that easy like I do on Asus boards... but this will feel like home too eventually  
It really stumped me that you can't disable M2 drives from BIOS. Had to physically install them one by one to get them in the right order... 😂 Or did I miss something??

Anyway, I'll return with some stable numbers and screenshots once I get it. XMP working fine atm, just that part is an upgrade over previous...


----------



## Nizzen

db000 said:


> Oooh I hope so! Installed now.
> 
> My first MSI board in ages, can't really say I find my way around that easy like I do on Asus boards... but this will feel like home too eventually
> It really stumped me that you can't disable M2 drives from BIOS. Had to physically install them one by one to get them in the right order... 😂 Or did I miss something??
> 
> Anyway, I'll return with some stable numbers and screenshots once I get it. XMP working fine atm, just that part is an upgrade over previous...
> 
> View attachment 2563427


Watercooled dimms <3

Stars in my eyes 🤩


----------



## chibi

Nizzen said:


> Watercooled dimms <3
> 
> Stars in my eyes 🤩


What a guy, dedicated 360 custom loop for two ram dimms. 👌


----------



## sugi0lover

db000 said:


> Oooh I hope so! Installed now.
> 
> My first MSI board in ages, can't really say I find my way around that easy like I do on Asus boards... but this will feel like home too eventually
> It really stumped me that you can't disable M2 drives from BIOS. Had to physically install them one by one to get them in the right order... 😂 Or did I miss something??
> 
> Anyway, I'll return with some stable numbers and screenshots once I get it. XMP working fine atm, just that part is an upgrade over previous...
> 
> View attachment 2563427


Man~ You are crazy and I love it


----------



## sblantipodi

Someone suggests to disable MRC Fast Boot to make the RAM retrain on every boot.
What is the purpose of retraining the memory on every boot?
Can you explain me it please?


----------



## Mafiu

Hello everyone! My first post here and I'm coming to you for help I have ADATA XPG Lancer 6000 MHz CL40 on Samsung but turning on XMP profile causes my games to crash (of course they can't pass Memtest86 and TM5) but what's strange: if I turn XMP on and change frequency to 5600 everything works fine. Tried changing VDD/SA, timings etc. but nothing works. Already replaced my RAM and CPU but that didn't help. My specs: 12700K (no OC yet) and Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX (F7c BIOS). Any advice?


----------



## 7empe

Mafiu said:


> Hello everyone! My first post here and I'm coming to you for help I have ADATA XPG Lancer 6000 MHz CL40 on Samsung but turning on XMP profile causes my games to crash (of course they can't pass Memtest86 and TM5) but what's strange: if I turn XMP on and change frequency to 5600 everything works fine. Tried changing VDD/SA, timings etc. but nothing works. Already replaced my RAM and CPU but that didn't help. My specs: 12700K (no OC yet) and Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX (F7c BIOS). Any advice?


It's a 4-dimm slot motherboard sadly, so can be issues at keeping high frequency XMP. Is it 2x16 GB kit? If so, which slots do they occupy? I recommend to try pure XMP at 6000 MHz and increase of IMC voltage to 1.35V. The rest (VDD/VDDQ/SA) on auto.


----------



## Mafiu

7empe said:


> It's a 4-dimm slot motherboard sadly, so can be issues at keeping high frequency XMP. Is it 2x16 GB kit? If so, which slots do they occupy? I recommend to try pure XMP at 6000 MHz and increase of IMC voltage to 1.35V. The rest (VDD/VDDQ/SA) on auto.


Yes, it's 2x16 GB kit. They're on QVL list. Slots A2/B2. Increased IMC to 1.35V, rest on auto and on second cycle in TM5 usmus_v3 I've got errors in 0, 6 and 12 tests.


----------



## DBCooper1

Mafiu said:


> Yes, it's 2x16 GB kit. They're on QVL list. Slots A2/B2. Increased IMC to 1.35V, rest on auto and on second cycle in TM5 usmus_v3 I've got errors in 0, 6 and 12 tests.


I got the same memory as you but with a cheaper Prime Z-690-A motherboard. With this latest bios I had to put 1.4V on VDD/VDDQ for XMP-1 to be stable for some reason in TM5 usmus_v3. Prior Bios versions 1.35V was sufficient..


----------



## Mafiu

DBCooper1 said:


> I got the same memory as you but with a cheaper Prime Z-690-A motherboard. With this latest bios I had to put 1.4V on VDD/VDDQ for XMP-1 to be stable for some reason in TM5 usmus_v3. Prior Bios versions 1.35V was sufficient..


So, increase VDD/VDDQ to 1.4 and leave IMC on 1.35?


----------



## DBCooper1

Mafiu said:


> So, increase VDD/VDDQ to 1.4 and leave IMC on 1.35?


Sorry, I thought you were on an asus board. I dont think it would hurt if you tried that. For mine, XMP-1 defaults the IMC to around 1.35v, but I had to put in 1.4v minimum VDD/VDDQ to be stable. All other settings auto...


----------



## DanGleeballs

Mafiu said:


> So, increase VDD/VDDQ to 1.4 and leave IMC on 1.35?


It's worth taking the time to find the right IMC voltage needed.
Don't be afraid to go lower you may find that 1.25 or lower is enough for 6000. Too much can give random instabilities that you just can't fix until you get it dialed in. 
You'll know if it's way too low when it doesn't post keep stepping up 1 click at a time.


----------



## Mafiu

Well, I think it's time to give up  tried everything: 
IMC from 1.05 to 1.35
VDD/VDDQ from 1.35 to 1.45
and always errors on TM5 usmus_v3

Changing frequency to 5600 MHz and poof! Working like a charm. Bad Mobo?


----------



## DanGleeballs

That's just unlucky I guess mate. I had the Aorus Pro and found the F8 BIOS much better with 6000+, although was lucky as I never had issues with XMP on my 5600 Samsung kit. It clocked up to 6200 quite easily.


----------



## DBCooper1

Mafiu said:


> Well, I think it's time to give up  tried everything:
> IMC from 1.05 to 1.35
> VDD/VDDQ from 1.35 to 1.45
> and always errors on TM5 usmus_v3
> 
> Changing frequency to 5600 MHz and poof! Working like a charm. Bad Mobo?


I'm at my limit at 6000Mhz, cant even tighten the timings from xmp for better latency without errors. I may drop the speed down some and see if I can get better latency per the techpowerup article..









DDR5 Memory Performance Scaling with Alder Lake Core i9-12900K


In this article, we take a closer look at the performance scaling you can expect for various DDR5 configurations. We test from DDR5-6000 all the way down to DDR5-2400 and compare CL30 vs. CL36 vs. CL40. Last but not least, we also consider these numbers in relation to what DDR4-3600 offers.




www.techpowerup.com





Edit: Dropping my frequency by 200Mhz let my tighten a lot more timings then I was able to at XMP 6000Mhz. My latency dropped by 13ns but the memory read went down some and its passing TM5 so far. I think my ram was at a wall at 6000Mhz..


----------



## Spit051261

Bit better than my 2 previous Apex boards.....that went back 
Dark is nice for DDR5 .








spit051261`s Memory Frequency score: 3512 MHz with a DDR5 SDRAM


The DDR5 SDRAM @ 3512MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Memory Frequency benchmark. spit051261ranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## tubs2x4

deleted


----------



## Hotcooler

Try 5866/6133 on Gigabyte boards. For me 6000 is unstable and 6200 does not ever train on Aorus Master, yet 5866 with 105.5bclk (6190) is stable on 28-37-37-28-320-1T, and 6133 can train up to 6400 even if extremely slowly. For the same effective 6000mhz clock 100 Vs 133 divider give vastly different RTLs. 100 gives 68/69 and for 133 it's 55/60 for example.

And I've yet to boot any kit on xmp on it too.


----------



## 7empe

Mafiu said:


> Yes, it's 2x16 GB kit. They're on QVL list. Slots A2/B2. Increased IMC to 1.35V, rest on auto and on second cycle in TM5 usmus_v3 I've got errors in 0, 6 and 12 tests.


The 0, 12 errors are often related to IMC. 6 can be both, IMC and/or VDD.
What about IVR Transmitter VDDQ voltage? I believe it is on auto on XMP, but what value does it have?


----------



## william456

I gave up too.

Buy the Gskill Ripjaws 6000 C30 32Gx2 1.4V to replace my older micron 5200 c40 16Gx2 1.35V.

And I set-up a 9 cm noctua to blow the RAM.
My CPU/MB/BiOS is 12900K/asus z690 extreme/1505

But i always got random BSOD on XMP1 and stuck BIOS on xmp2

Raise CL/VDD/VDDQ/MCV/IVR/VDD Switching/vddq switching to 32/1.47/1.45/1.3825/1.5/1.5/1.5 and turn off the Asus MCE , Seems like it can reduces my BSOD to 1 or 2 BSOD within a day.

And i always got the error and can not pass the test in TM5/Aida64 stress test, even though i adjust the voltage and timing or using with the factory xmp.



Mafiu said:


> Well, I think it's time to give up  tried everything:
> IMC from 1.05 to 1.35
> VDD/VDDQ from 1.35 to 1.45
> and always errors on TM5 usmus_v3
> 
> Changing frequency to 5600 MHz and poof! Working like a charm. Bad Mobo?


----------



## asdkj1740

Mafiu said:


> Well, I think it's time to give up  tried everything:
> IMC from 1.05 to 1.35
> VDD/VDDQ from 1.35 to 1.45
> and always errors on TM5 usmus_v3
> 
> Changing frequency to 5600 MHz and poof! Working like a charm. Bad Mobo?


your adata lancer, two sticks in one pack or two packs?


----------



## db000

Thoughts on the RTLs? They look rather high for me on the Unify-X. Both Auto.
Did try to lower them Manually on Unify-X, didn't apply, stayed the same after boot.


----------



## Raphie

6400 / 6600 /6666 you get 64, 6800 < you get 65
leave the values and enable adaptive mode, or enable rtl in training both will give same result.
plugin desired values directly does not work. And better to use Dragonball 1.10, asus reads wrong values on several fields


----------



## db000

Raphie said:


> 6400 / 6600 /6666 you get 64, 6800 < you get 65
> leave the values and enable adaptive mode, or enable rtl in training both will give same result.
> plugin desired values directly does not work. And better to use Dragonball 1.10, asus reads wrong values on several fields


Thanks Raphie. I went and enabled "Dynamic mode", now it reads way better.


----------



## Raphie

62/63, very nice, which modules?


----------



## db000

Do you have any good links for 1.10? @Raphie or care to up it for me.
I found Dragon Power (1.0.012) over at hwbot.





MSI Dragon Ball / Dragon Power Tools for Z690?


I saw some picture of ver 1.0.0.08 of MSI Dragon Ball and also a working Dragon Power Version for Z690. Anyone here can provide me a link for Download? On chinese websites i can only find ver 1.0.0.03 which does not work for Z690.



community.hwbot.org


----------



## db000

Raphie said:


> 62/63, very nice, which modules?


F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK


----------



## Raphie

Same as me, which bios version?


----------



## db000

Raphie said:


> Same as me, which bios version?


A.42, not sure which one is best, what version do you use?


----------



## chibi

Hi guys, first time overclocking ddr5. I'm using 12900ks + msi z690i unify itx + kingston fury 6000 32gb kit. I set voltages as follows:


CPU Core Voltage Monitor - VCC Sense
CPU Core Voltage Mode - Override Mode
CPU Core Voltage 1.350
CPU SA Voltage Mode - Override Mode
CPU SA Voltage - 1.250
CPU VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
CPU VDD2 Voltage - 1.400
CPU AUX Voltage - 1.900
CPU PLL SFR Voltage - 1.095
RING PLL SFR Voltage - 0.975
SA PLL SFR Voltage - 0.960
MC PLL SFR Voltage - 1.050
DRAM Voltage - 1.450
DRAM VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
Set ram to 30, 40, 40, 28 2n, secondary and third auto.

7000 - No post
6800 - No post
6600 - Post but error Kahru right away
6400 - Post and stable 1000%

Reset to bios, keep same voltages and adjust secondary and thirds - 10,000% stable. Looks like my memory chips are low bin? Anything you guys can suggest? My RTLs are 61/62 auto. Are there any tweaks to set lower? I'm just focus on ram for now. Mora and cpu block coming next week.

Current cpu heatsink is Noctua NH-C14S. There is no room underneath the heatsink to add fan to memory modules.


----------



## Raphie

db000 said:


> A.42, not sure which one is best, what version do you use?


I’m happy with 1.31 others swear by 1.2, 1.42 was wonky for me.


----------



## chibi

I'm considering the gskill 6400c32 rgb kit. What do you guys use to turn off ram rgb that isn't resource hog? Does keeping the rgb on all the time take away any meaningful performance in terms of OC? I might put them under ram waterblock as well. Will it be weird having rgb on under waterblock? Ideally I'd go for the black 6400c32 non rgb kit but it's not in stock for the last while.


----------



## SoldierRBT

chibi said:


> I'm considering the gskill 6400c32 rgb kit. What do you guys use to turn off ram rgb that isn't resource hog? Does keeping the rgb on all the time take away any meaningful performance in terms of OC? I might put them under ram waterblock as well. Will it be weird having rgb on under waterblock? Ideally I'd go for the black 6400c32 non rgb kit but it's not in stock for the last while.


Go for the 6400 non-rgb silver one which is currently on stock on Newegg and replace stock heatsink with EK-Monarch black. Doing that memory ran 6C cooler and much more stable since the stock heatsink doesn’t even have thermal pad on the PMIC. Adding a waterblock is another 8-9C drop.

For thermal pads I used 1.5mm on the back and 1mm on the ICs and PMIC


----------



## db000

chibi said:


> I'm considering the gskill 6400c32 rgb kit. What do you guys use to turn off ram rgb that isn't resource hog? Does keeping the rgb on all the time take away any meaningful performance in terms of OC? I might put them under ram waterblock as well. Will it be weird having rgb on under waterblock? Ideally I'd go for the black 6400c32 non rgb kit but it's not in stock for the last while.


I've wrecked three 6400CL32 kits with trying to turn off the RGB with G.Skill software (v1.00.29) was the version I was using, the latest at the time. I just have them enabled now under the block to not corrupt one more stick(SPD). No, its not possible to flash the stick either.. its wrecked. That was with my Apex board, but will not try again eitherway. G.Skill wasn't interested in the issue, very slow in the contact, even when I offered to go buy another kit and demo for them live... Soo... Hopefully it works for you.


----------



## z390e

I use Armoury Crate for the RGB on my GSkill 6400 DDR5 RAM since I have a few other components from Asus.

Evga Eleet handles RGB for my AIO.

Both of them have a dark mode I use for benching.


----------



## chibi

SoldierRBT said:


> Go for the 6400 non-rgb silver one which is currently on stock on Newegg and replace stock heatsink with EK-Monarch black. Doing that memory ran 6C cooler and much more stable since the stock heatsink doesn’t even have thermal pad on the PMIC. Adding a waterblock is another 8-9C drop.
> 
> For thermal pads I used 1.5mm on the back and 1mm on the ICs and PMIC


Thanks Soldier and everyone that replied. Before I go ordering the 6400c32 kit, is there anything else I can try besides upping voltages further with my current fury 6000 kit? I'm looking to get a 24/7 7000c30/32 profile. Temps already get into 60's with that kit.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


62/63, very nice, which modules? F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK




www.overclock.net


----------



## bigfootnz

db000 said:


> Thanks Raphie. I went and enabled "Dynamic mode", now it reads way better.
> 
> View attachment 2563598


Can you tell me which is that option in bios “Dynamic mode” as my RTL are also high like yours one before you enable it? Thanks


----------



## db000

bigfootnz said:


> Can you tell me which is that option in bios “Dynamic mode” as my RTL are also high like yours one before you enable it? Thanks


----------



## tubs2x4

chibi said:


> Hi guys, first time overclocking ddr5. I'm using 12900ks + msi z690i unify itx + kingston fury 6000 32gb kit. I set voltages as follows:
> 
> 
> CPU Core Voltage Monitor - VCC Sense
> CPU Core Voltage Mode - Override Mode
> CPU Core Voltage 1.350
> CPU SA Voltage Mode - Override Mode
> CPU SA Voltage - 1.250
> CPU VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
> CPU VDD2 Voltage - 1.400
> CPU AUX Voltage - 1.900
> CPU PLL SFR Voltage - 1.095
> RING PLL SFR Voltage - 0.975
> SA PLL SFR Voltage - 0.960
> MC PLL SFR Voltage - 1.050
> DRAM Voltage - 1.450
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
> Set ram to 30, 40, 40, 28 2n, secondary and third auto.
> 
> 7000 - No post
> 6800 - No post
> 6600 - Post but error Kahru right away
> 6400 - Post and stable 1000%
> 
> Reset to bios, keep same voltages and adjust secondary and thirds - 10,000% stable. Looks like my memory chips are low bin? Anything you guys can suggest? My RTLs are 61/62 auto. Are there any tweaks to set lower? I'm just focus on ram for now. Mora and cpu block coming next week.
> 
> Current cpu heatsink is Noctua NH-C14S. There is no room underneath the heatsink to add fan to memory modules.
> 
> View attachment 2563601
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563605


is that a two slot motherboard? 6400 is plenty fast unless you benching all the time then it will never be enough haha.


----------



## FoxEsquire

Wanting to OC G.Skill Trident z5 DDR5 6600 (F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS) to just 6666MHz cl34 on a MSI mpg z690 Carbon wifi (BIOS 1.4). Waste of time? Board not capable or BIOS just not there yet? XMP isn't supported on this board (yet) for G.skill's 6600 kit. Board is allegedly maxed at a 6666MHz OC.

I've been just messing around with MSI's 'Memory Try it!' trying to see if I can find something in that range that's stable. It will boot into Windows at 6666 cl34-40-40-90 at 1.425v and I can game for a bit but then it will CTD.

Should I lower my expectations and shoot for 6400 or 6200 for now until a better BIOS? I was able to get a stable 6200 cl 36 @ 1.36v, but I would like to get my money's worth with a 6600 or 6666 OC.


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> Hi guys, first time overclocking ddr5. I'm using 12900ks + msi z690i unify itx + kingston fury 6000 32gb kit. I set voltages as follows:
> 
> 
> CPU Core Voltage Monitor - VCC Sense
> CPU Core Voltage Mode - Override Mode
> CPU Core Voltage 1.350
> CPU SA Voltage Mode - Override Mode
> CPU SA Voltage - 1.250
> CPU VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
> CPU VDD2 Voltage - 1.400
> CPU AUX Voltage - 1.900
> CPU PLL SFR Voltage - 1.095
> RING PLL SFR Voltage - 0.975
> SA PLL SFR Voltage - 0.960
> MC PLL SFR Voltage - 1.050
> DRAM Voltage - 1.450
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
> Set ram to 30, 40, 40, 28 2n, secondary and third auto.
> 
> 7000 - No post
> 6800 - No post
> 6600 - Post but error Kahru right away
> 6400 - Post and stable 1000%
> 
> Reset to bios, keep same voltages and adjust secondary and thirds - 10,000% stable. Looks like my memory chips are low bin? Anything you guys can suggest? My RTLs are 61/62 auto. Are there any tweaks to set lower? I'm just focus on ram for now. Mora and cpu block coming next week.
> 
> Current cpu heatsink is Noctua NH-C14S. There is no room underneath the heatsink to add fan to memory modules.
> 
> View attachment 2563601
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563605


Without a fan directly on the memory it will be difficult to get higher clocks and tight subs Karhu stable because of temps. I am more likely to see errors when my dim temps get much over 42-44c depending on subtimings.

Recently the ambient temps have been about 4c higher and I kept getting errors in Karhu. I couldnt figure it out and when I looked back at past test my memory temps were in the 38-40c range when running Karhu and now they are hitting 42 to 44+ and I get errors. If your memory temps are accurate and hitting 63c I would bet that is why you are having issues getting higher clocks stable.

I have the gskill 6400c32 and the Kingston 6000c40 and for me the Kingston a little better. But it is lotto with any memory kit.

@satinghostrider also had both kits and found the Kingston better Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion

But I have also seen some who had both and they said gskill were better for them so I guess you can buy both and test. If you do report back how they compare.


----------



## chibi

whoops, double post.


----------



## chibi

tubs2x4 said:


> is that a two slot motherboard? 6400 is plenty fast unless you benching all the time then it will never be enough haha.


I hear you on chasing numbers, it's never enough with this hobby lol. Yes, the z690i unify is a 2-dimm board.



bscool said:


> Without a fan directly on the memory it will be difficult to get higher clocks and tight subs Karhu stable because of temps. I am more likely to see errors when my dim temps get much over 42-44c depending on subtimings.
> 
> Recently the ambient temps have been about 4c higher and I kept getting errors in Karhu. I couldnt figure it out and when I looked back at past test my memory temps were in the 38-40c range when running Karhu and now they are hitting 42 to 44+ and I get errors. If your memory temps are accurate and hitting 63c I would bet that is why you are having issues getting higher clocks stable.
> 
> I have the gskill 6400c32 and the Kingston 6000c40 and for me the Kingston a little better. But it is lotto with any memory kit.
> 
> @satinghostrider also had both kits and found the Kingston better Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> But I have also seen some who had both and they said gskill were better for them so I guess you can buy both and test. If you do report back how they compare.


The issue for me is that I can't post above 6600 at all. Let alone try and get stable. I can try to work 6600 stable but I don't think it's worth it as I'm at my very limits temp wise at the moment. Once I can ditch the air cooler and free up some space for dimm fans or waterblock, I can look into it again. I've ordered the silver non-rgb 6400c32 kit and will see if I'm held back by ram. If this comes in and I still can't post above 6600 then it's safe to say my KS imc is a potato 😅

If potato imc, then I'm going to throw in the towel and just accept a low bin this generation. Will try again in 3-4 years. Hopefully will see some familiar faces in whatever the current ddr ram stability thread is up


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> I hear you on chasing numbers, it's never enough with this hobby lol. Yes, the z690i unify is a 2-dimm board.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue for me is that I can't post above 6600 at all. Let alone try and get stable. I can try to work 6600 stable but I don't think it's worth it as I'm at my very limits temp wise at the moment. Once I can ditch the air cooler and free up some space for dimm fans or waterblock, I can look into it again. I've ordered the silver non-rgb 6400c32 kit and will see if I'm held back by ram. If this comes in and I still can't post above 6600 then it's safe to say my KS imc is a potato 😅
> 
> If potato imc, then I'm going to throw in the towel and just accept a low bin this generation. Will try again in 3-4 years. Hopefully will see some familiar faces in whatever the current ddr ram stability thread is up


Oh yeah I missed that. One thing you could do to rule out memory or a weak ram slot is test each indivudually. Example slot 2 is usually best so test both sticks in there. if both boot/bench say 6800 then test slot 1 and if slot 1 only does 6600 pretty likely MB.

Same if 1 stick only does 6600 in slot b and the other does 6800 or 7000 then you know it is a weak mem stick.

Edit I havent tested a lot of cpus but of the 4 12900k/kf/ks and they all will boot 7000+ so I doubt it is the IMC.

Also @matique would be the person to ask about unify itx mem oc and which bios is best _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


----------



## Raphie

6666 on air cooler is about the max, 6800 is already edgy, you really need an AIO to take care of ambient and the clearance an AIO brings for positioning a ram fan properly. 
regarding target voltages on the gskill 6400 /6600 / 6666 are all stable 1.395v (Auto vdd setting) for 6800 you need 1.44 vdd. VDDQ, SA, VVD2 all don’t matter auto works fine for those. At 6800 any of these settings did not improve Y-cruncher stability.

regarding Y-cruncher, run the the 2.5b at least 5x in a row where you need to pass 5/5
the number of times I thought I was there at 6800 and randomly 1 would not pass…..


----------



## jeiselramos

db000 said:


> A.42, not sure which one is best, what version do you use?


I'm on a.30, a.42 is kinda bugged in 1T and 2T is a bit worse than a.30


----------



## asdkj1740

chibi said:


> I hear you on chasing numbers, it's never enough with this hobby lol. Yes, the z690i unify is a 2-dimm board.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue for me is that I can't post above 6600 at all. Let alone try and get stable. I can try to work 6600 stable but I don't think it's worth it as I'm at my very limits temp wise at the moment. Once I can ditch the air cooler and free up some space for dimm fans or waterblock, I can look into it again. I've ordered the silver non-rgb 6400c32 kit and will see if I'm held back by ram. If this comes in and I still can't post above 6600 then it's safe to say my KS imc is a potato 😅
> 
> If potato imc, then I'm going to throw in the towel and just accept a low bin this generation. Will try again in 3-4 years. Hopefully will see some familiar faces in whatever the current ddr ram stability thread is up


okay no more trolling.

just dont treat msi 2 dimm mobos as god, although ppl here tend to trash apex while praise unifyx at the same time.
but your case is even rare, i have been seeing some msi users having trouble to boot over 6600/6666, but those are with 12900k only.
i would suggest instead of getting a new kit, just get another cpu to check whether your 12900ks is trash.

if you look into all the pages of this thread (and the asus's thread), you shall see some msi users complaining 6000mhz xmp as well.


----------



## Mafiu

Hotcooler said:


> Try 5866/6133 on Gigabyte boards. For me 6000 is unstable and 6200 does not ever train on Aorus Master, yet 5866 with 105.5bclk (6190) is stable on 28-37-37-28-320-1T, and 6133 can train up to 6400 even if extremely slowly. For the same effective 6000mhz clock 100 Vs 133 divider give vastly different RTLs. 100 gives 68/69 and for 133 it's 55/60 for example.
> 
> And I've yet to boot any kit on xmp on it too.


Will check, thanks!



asdkj1740 said:


> your adata lancer, two sticks in one pack or two packs?


Yes, 2 sticks in one box -> AX5U6000C4016G-DCLARBK



7empe said:


> The 0, 12 errors are often related to IMC. 6 can be both, IMC and/or VDD.
> What about IVR Transmitter VDDQ voltage? I believe it is on auto on XMP, but what value does it have?


I'll check that and come back with results, fingers crossed


----------



## db000

jeiselramos said:


> I'm on a.30, a.42 is kinda bugged in 1T and 2T is a bit worse than a.30


Thanks. I'll try that now.


----------



## Raphie

or the ones who need Dragonball as it's flewn of the interwebsz again https://file.io/0RkKuO1gpep1


----------



## Raphie

6800 still not 100% Y-cruncher 2.5b, Karhu 10.000% coverage though.
So I started a new 6400 CL30 adventure.
auto settings as baseline, 1.45v (should be able to get that down further)
Let the tightening up begin


----------



## Nizzen

Y-cruncher stock 12900k VS 12900k @ P 5200/E 4100.

Stock Cache and 7000c30 tweaked on both.

























My chip must be the hottest in the world. Not delidded and watercooled. 90c max with 1.217v load 5200mhz in y-cruncher 😅

Stock cpu and 7000c30 gives good performane in "cpu games" and pretty cold
BF 2042 - 128 player










XMP 4800 in this game gives ~ 35% less in min and average fps.

PS: Tested my doughters 5950x with 3800c14 tweaked and 3090 with the same settings. 135-165fps Jumps much more than 12900k. that's for shure.


----------



## Mafiu

7empe said:


> The 0, 12 errors are often related to IMC. 6 can be both, IMC and/or VDD.
> What about IVR Transmitter VDDQ voltage? I believe it is on auto on XMP, but what value does it have?


Well, XMP it's setting it at 1.35V That's my XMP profile:


----------



## 7empe

Mafiu said:


> Well, XMP it's setting it at 1.35V That's my XMP profile:
> View attachment 2563683


It's dram vddq. What about cpu vddq? Does gigabyte allows to set it independently? If so, then it may be listed in different bios tab.


----------



## Mafiu

7empe said:


> It's dram vddq. What about cpu vddq? Does gigabyte allows to set it independently? If so, then it may be listed in different bios tab.


Oh sorry, my bad. I think that's the one (in red line) according to this guide: GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon








And the answer is: should I add some more Voltage here? If yes - how much?


----------



## DanGleeballs

7empe said:


> It's dram vddq. What about cpu vddq? Does gigabyte allows to set it independently? If so, then it may be listed in different bios tab.


My Aorus Pro didn't allow me to set CPU vddq.
Was always same as vdd/vddq


----------



## Raphie

Think I finally found the 6800Mhz culprit
My tRDWR_dg & _dr were at 20, which was edgy, 4 out of 5 Y-crunchers passing, now I've put them to 21 and so far (fingers crossed) no more Y-cruncher errors. Never say never, maybe it's just a forgiving day  But so far so good @ only 1.44vdd


----------



## db000

Raphie said:


> Think I finally found the 6800Mhz culprit
> My tWRWR_dg & _dr were at 20, which was edgy, 4 out of 5 Y-crunchers passing, now I've put them to 21 and so far (fingers crossed) no more Y-cruncher errors. Never say never, maybe it's just a forgiving day  But so far so good @ only 1.44vdd


sg* 

Care to link the full pic of settings, wanna try them out.


----------



## Raphie

1.44 VDD, use the pic in your PM, to find which settings need to be AUTO
the others change according to below


----------



## db000

Current daily I've been running for two days now. Not a single issue, "only" 6600C30, but compared to my previous Apex, this was soooo easy to get going. Passed 40k%+ with Karhu (10 hours) and multple hours of BF2042 and Apex Legends. Voltages not optimzed at all. I've found my way around the Bios now and I quite like it now, different but not bad.

I actually find the MSI even easier on the cache/ring and core also. Been testing 5.3 and 5.4 all-core, only issue is temps.

On the other hand, I've yet to successfully boot 7000. 6933C32 highest, but not stable. 

6600C30 2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.5v
VDDQ TX 1.4v
VCCSA 1.25v
VDD2 1.4v


----------



## Raphie

the 6800 should give you something like this


----------



## Raphie

tightening up further.


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> tightening up further.
> View attachment 2563695


Protip: Always go high first, then lower later.

7000mhz c32-42-42-32 2t as a start  1.65v VDD/VDDQ and 1.4v imc, then go lower if it's doing all right. No need to waste time for frequency under 7k 😘 🤟


----------



## Raphie

Not doing 7k @ 1.65v on air 
6800 is running 1.44v, my 6800 y-cruncher cpu stock, is 1sec faster than the cpu stock screen above 
point of diminishing returns for me.


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Not doing 7k @ 1.65v on air
> 6800 is running 1.44v, my 6800 y-cruncher cpu stock, is 1sec faster than the cpu stock screen above
> point of diminishing returns for me.


Have you tried 7k 1.48-1.5v? Looks like nice dimms you have


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> I'm on a.30, a.42 is kinda bugged in 1T and 2T is a bit worse than a.30


Do you have link for A.30 bios?



db000 said:


> Thanks. I'll try that now.


Did you try A.30 bios? If you have is it better than A.42, which I'm using at the moment?

After playing just one afternoon with this motherboard I was able to stabilize 6800C32 in just few hours
VDD/VDDQ 1.45v
VDDQ TX 1.4v
VCCSA 1.25v
VDD2 1.4v 








I'm able to boot easily 7000C32 but still was not stable.

I understand that 'working' Apex is better board for hard core mem OC, but this board was so easy to use comparing to Hero regarding DDR5 OC. Also what really bugs me with Asus is that 30 seconds bios boot time comparing to 5 second on MSI. This board train memory so fast and it is much more forgiving than Asus.
What I can see here that most of people bough Apex to use it with XMP, which in my opinion is just wasting potential of this board, but for them I would recommend to use Unify X. It will work with XMP much better that Apex and if you want to manually OC mem it will still work great and it will be easier to OC. But if you want to chase world records then you probably will have to find 'working' Apex.


----------



## db000

bigfootnz said:


> Do you have link for A.30 bios?
> 
> 
> Did you try A.30 bios? If you have is it better than A.42, which I'm using at the moment?
> 
> After playing just one afternoon with this motherboard I was able to stabilize 6800C32 in just few hours
> VDD/VDDQ 1.45v
> VDDQ TX 1.4v
> VCCSA 1.25v
> VDD2 1.4v
> View attachment 2563702
> 
> 
> I'm able to boot easily 7000C32 but still was not stable.
> 
> I understand that 'working' Apex is better board for hard core mem OC, but this board was so easy to use comparing to Hero regarding DDR5 OC. Also what really bugs me with Asus is that 30 seconds bios boot time comparing to 5 second on MSI. This board train memory so fast and it is much more forgiving than Asus.
> What I can see here that most of people bough Apex to use it with XMP, which in my opinion is just wasting potential of this board, but for them I would recommend to use Unify X. It will work with XMP much better that Apex and if you want to manually OC mem it will still work great and it will be easier to OC. But if you want to chase world records then you probably will have to find 'working' Apex.


This is with A.42, I've yet to test the A.30/A.31. I downloaded this, I believe it is the correct file(A3):


https://download.msi.com/bos_exe/mb/7D28vA3.zip



Same here, playing with 6800C32 today. Will report back once I'm satisfied.

I agree on that, I like the faster training. I have a average(?) Apex, I mean it did do 6600C30 but with ALOT of effort and the "right bios" to fit the board.


----------



## bigfootnz

db000 said:


> This is with A.42, I've yet to test the A.31. I downloaded this, I believe it is the correct file(A3):
> 
> 
> https://download.msi.com/bos_exe/mb/7D28vA3.zip
> 
> 
> 
> Same here,playing with 6800C32 today. Will report back once I'm satisfied.


Yes, I know about this A.3, but probably there is this A.30, which is probably beta like this A.42. Thanks

Did you noticed any difference in CPU voltage and temperatures comparing to Asus?
I got this strange KS (SP 94 and P SP 102), which need much more voltage than my other KS (SP90 and P SP 95), but it runs much cooler. Today I will swap CPU's between motherboards to test needed voltages, as I'm not sure how accurate MSI socket sense is comparing to Asus, temperatures and maybe other KS will be able to run 7000C32


----------



## db000

bigfootnz said:


> Yes, I know about this A.3, but probably there is this A.30, which is probably beta like this A.42. Thanks
> 
> Did you noticed any difference in CPU voltage and temperatures comparing to Asus?
> I got this strange KS (SP 94 and P SP 102), which need much more voltage than my other KS (SP90 and P SP 95), but it runs much cooler. Today I will swap CPU's between motherboards to test needed voltages, as I'm not sure how accurate MSI socket sense is comparing to Asus, temperatures and maybe other KS will be able to run 7000C32


Im not great at the VF stuff, I run fixed voltage and all-core. No E-cores. I enable them for y-cruncher 2.5b tho.
I found it much easier to run 5.2GHz all-core (4.7GHz ring/cache) with this board (P-cores only). Just set 1.3v and it worked great. iirc mine is the same as yours regarding SP/SP P scores. Will do more CPU stuff once if satisfied with the RAM. Temps are the same afaik.


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> 1.44 VDD, use the pic in your PM, to find which settings need to be AUTO
> the others change according to below
> 
> View attachment 2563693


yo, please send me the pic of what to keep auto too thanks


----------



## bigfootnz

db000 said:


> Im not great at the VF stuff, I run fixed voltage and all-core. No E-cores. I enable them for y-cruncher 2.5b tho.
> I found it much easier to run 5.2GHz all-core (4.7GHz ring/cache) with this board (P-cores only). Just set 1.3v and it worked great. iirc mine is the same as yours regarding SP/SP P scores. Will do more CPU stuff once if satisfied with the RAM. Temps are the same afaik.


I'm also running just static OC with 5.2GHz and with E-cores enabled. 
For comparison with KS (SP94) on MSI need load voltage 1.217v (as per MSI socket sense) for y-cruncher to be stable on 5.2GHz with e-cores and ring 4.2. This CPU will run y-cruncher on 240mm AIO 70-80C. While my other KS (SP90) will run y-cruncher same frequencies but with load voltage of 1.19v and temperature low 70 but on custom loop with 3x360mm and dual pump. But when I was running this KS (SP94) on my Strix D4 it was running like 10C hotter then MSI on same voltages (min voltage needed to be stable in y-cruncher). If I'm not wrong on Strix it need more voltage (as per software reading 1.25v) to be stable on 5.2GHz.


----------



## sugi0lover

the new released 6600CL34 ram kit oc result posted at my region pc forum.

12900k (a.i tvb +2boost) + z690 Hero (Bios 1505)
Gskill 6600cl34(16*2) : 6800cl32 32-40-40-30 320 2t
Voltages : vdd/vddq 1.56/1.53v, sa 1.1v, mc 1.386v
Before, he had 6400cl40 ram kit oc to 6800 at vdd/vddq 1.58/1.56, sa 1.3v+, so his 6600cl34 kit is better than his old 6400cl40 kit.


----------



## ChaosAD

With only one dimm tested on slot B on the Apex, 6600c34 kit, I managed to run 2000% karhu 6800 32-40-40-28 with 1.47 VDD/VDDQ, haven't tried lower. I don't know if I ll need more when I ll run both dimms, since I wait for my Unify X. On the apex max stable is 6200c30.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another 6600cl34 ram oc result posted.
His Apex is not 2022 manufactured one.
- vdd 1.45 vddq 1.4


----------



## Raphie

bigfootnz said:


> what dimms are u using? Can u y-crunch 2.5b and pass 5x in a row? Your rdwr @ 19 wasn’t stable for me, needed 21 to pass y-cruncher every time. (Karhu, testmem, memtest and everything else passed flawless @ 19)
> Do you have link for A.30 bios?
> 
> 
> Did you try A.30 bios? If you have is it better than A.42, which I'm using at the moment?
> 
> After playing just one afternoon with this motherboard I was able to stabilize 6800C32 in just few hours
> VDD/VDDQ 1.45v
> VDDQ TX 1.4v
> VCCSA 1.25v
> VDD2 1.4v
> View attachment 2563702
> 
> 
> I'm able to boot easily 7000C32 but still was not stable.
> 
> I understand that 'working' Apex is better board for hard core mem OC, but this board was so easy to use comparing to Hero regarding DDR5 OC. Also what really bugs me with Asus is that 30 seconds bios boot time comparing to 5 second on MSI. This board train memory so fast and it is much more forgiving than Asus.
> What I can see here that most of people bough Apex to use it with XMP, which in my opinion is just wasting potential of this board, but for them I would recommend to use Unify X. It will work with XMP much better that Apex and if you want to manually OC mem it will still work great and it will be easier to OC. But if you want to chase world records then you probably will have to find 'working' Apex.


----------



## Raphie

With the gskill 6800/32 should be done @ 1.44 the 6400/32 kit is already doing that, if the 6600 is better bin it might even be 1.43 / 1.44


----------



## asdkj1740

DanGleeballs said:


> My Aorus Pro didn't allow me to set CPU vddq.
> Was always same as vdd/vddq


"dram vdd/vddq" is cpu vddq tx


----------



## asdkj1740

db000 said:


> Current daily I've been running for two days now. Not a single issue, "only" 6600C30, but compared to my previous Apex, this was soooo easy to get going. Passed 40k%+ with Karhu (10 hours) and multple hours of BF2042 and Apex Legends. Voltages not optimzed at all. I've found my way around the Bios now and I quite like it now, different but not bad.
> 
> I actually find the MSI even easier on the cache/ring and core also. Been testing 5.3 and 5.4 all-core, only issue is temps.
> 
> On the other hand, I've yet to successfully boot 7000. 6933C32 highest, but not stable.
> 
> 6600C30 2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.5v
> VDDQ TX 1.4v
> VCCSA 1.25v
> VDD2 1.4v
> 
> View attachment 2563692


you are not alone. i am just sick of some dudes here who keep saying unifyx = best = at least 7000mhz in dual channel easy.
you had apex before? how was that?


----------



## sugi0lover

asdkj1740 said:


> you are not alone. i am just sick of some dudes here who keep saying unifyx = best = at least 7000mhz in dual channel easy.
> you had apex before? how was that?


I have shared almost all 7000+ Ram OC results from my region PC forum, but it is very hard to see stable 7000Mhz+ on any MB including Apex, Unify x/itx, and Dark Kingpin.


----------



## db000

sugi0lover said:


> I have shared almost all 7000+ Ram OC results from my region PC forum, but it is very hard to see stable 7000Mhz+ on any MB including Apex, Unify x/itx, and Dark Kingpin.


I was about to qoute your other post. Thanks for sharing the results from others here


----------



## bigfootnz

Not sure why you have quoted my post?


----------



## Raphie

Was curious if you pass y-cruncher 2.5b with those settings 5/5? And what memory you have?


----------



## bigfootnz

Raphie said:


> Was curious if you pass y-cruncher 2.5b with those settings 5/5? And what memory you have?


Yes, I’m able to pass 5/5. Doing one or two runs with y-cruncher is not enough.

I’ve managed to tighten my 6800C32 even more with bumping VDD/VDDQ to 1.46















Memory is Kingston *KF560C40BBK2-32*


----------



## Mafiu

Mafiu said:


> Well, I think it's time to give up  tried everything:
> IMC from 1.05 to 1.35
> VDD/VDDQ from 1.35 to 1.45
> and always errors on TM5 usmus_v3
> 
> Changing frequency to 5600 MHz and poof! Working like a charm. Bad Mobo?


I'm back in business boyz and girlz! Took some advice from this guide: GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon and changed CPU Vcore, DRAM VDD/VDDq and VDD2 CPU, rest left on Auto and turned my XMP on. I've passed TM5 Absolut by @anta777 
I know - you will say: meh just 6000 MHz CL40 but for me it's a victory xD 
And one last thing, I'm noob regarding OC and always reading guides/threads like this so thank you everyone for this topic and helping me to get at least 6000 MHz CL40 (of course I'll try higher freq with better timmings  )
and my personal opinion: never again Gigabyte mobo, MSI/Asus is much better (especially MSI) their BIOS is much more intuitive at least for me


----------



## db000

bigfootnz said:


> Yes, I’m able to pass 5/5. Doing one or two runs with y-cruncher is not enough.
> 
> I’ve managed to tighten my 6800C32 even more with bumping VDD/VDDQ to 1.46
> View attachment 2563725
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563726
> 
> Memory is Kingston *KF560C40BBK2-32*


Nice @bigfootnz 

Pretty much running the same, I've yet to optimize the VDD/VDDQ at all.
I'll post a better pic once I'm done testing, so I can move on to trying 7000. Any success there for you yet?


----------



## chentj1988

Never thought I can achieve 6800CL30-32-32-42 with my Z690 Formula + G.Skill 6400CL32 kit. Previously I can never achieve anything above 6600mhz. After listening to my OC master's @owikh84 advice, changed the Stock LGA1700 socket to ThermalRight anti bend socket, I can do 6800CL30 1.62v/1.6v/1.38v stable. Damn...
Whoever has the anti-bend bracket, can give it a try.


----------



## bigfootnz

db000 said:


> Nice @bigfootnz
> 
> Pretty much running the same, I've yet to optimize the VDD/VDDQ at all. But VDD2 at 1.3v and SA at 1.25v, VDDQ TX at 1.4v.
> I'll post a better pic once I'm done testing, so I can move on to trying 7000. Any success there for you yet?


That is great, you have managed to stabilise 6800.

At the moment I’m comparing Hero and Unifi regarding CPU OC. Did you noticed that MSI is over reporting Vcore for almost 0.08v in socket sense.
For example for 5.2/4.0/4.1 doing y-cruncher (these are minimum voltages to be y-cruncher stable):
Hero Vcore is 1.154v and total PSU power (Corsair PSU read out) 370W
Unify Vcore is 1.215v and total PSU power 370W, and slightly lower temperature average
For 5.3/4.0/4.1
Hero is 1.205v and 430W
Unify is 1.285v and 420W, again lower temp.

I know that previous MSI board had like VRout voltage read outs in HWinfo which were almost same like Asus. Did you noticed this much higher Vcore on MSI?

Tomorrow I’ll give a try to 7000. Also I’ll try your VDD2 at 1.3v for 6800.


----------



## db000

bigfootnz said:


> That is great, you have managed to stabilise 6800.
> 
> At the moment I’m comparing Hero and Unifi regarding CPU OC. Did you noticed that MSI is over reporting Vcore for almost 0.08v in socket sense.
> For example for 5.2/4.0/4.1 doing y-cruncher (these are minimum voltages to be y-cruncher stable):
> Hero Vcore is 1.154v and total PSU power (Corsair PSU read out) 370W
> Unify Vcore is 1.215v and total PSU power 370W, and slightly lower temperature average
> For 5.3/4.0/4.1
> Hero is 1.205v and 430W
> Unify is 1.285v and 420W, again lower temp.
> 
> I know that previous MSI board had like VRout voltage read outs in HWinfo which were almost same like Asus. Did you noticed this much higher Vcore on MSI?
> 
> Tomorrow I’ll give a try to 7000. Also I’ll try your VDD2 at 1.3v for 6800.


I've not noticed that. But I'll for sure take notes when I eventually go back testing Apex again.
Removed voltages from my original post, mistake posting them until I'm 100% stable on all loads. 1.3 might been too low, had a crash in BF2042.


----------



## CptSpig

asdkj1740 said:


> you are not alone. i am just sick of some dudes here who keep saying unifyx = best = at least 7000mhz in dual channel easy.
> you had apex before? how was that?


Here is my APEX doing 7000 and it's a 2021 board with 12900K all from the EGG. ON Air....


----------



## DanGleeballs

asdkj1740 said:


> "dram vdd/vddq" is cpu vddq tx


Sorry. I'm confused are you saying that CPU vddq voltage is called CPU vddq tx on gigabyte boards?
*Edit. Oh I get it.


----------



## asdkj1740

DanGleeballs said:


> Sorry. I'm confused are you saying that CPU vddq voltage is called CPU vddq tx on gigabyte boards?


cpu vddq is called dram vdd/vddq on gigabyte mobos


----------



## jomama22

CptSpig said:


> Here is my APEX doing 7000 and it's a 2021 board with 12900K all from the EGG. ON Air....
> View attachment 2563750
> View attachment 2563750


Ok? This is like the 20th post you have made about it. Not really sure what relevancy you are trying to make other than you having a motherboard that's not borked?


----------



## TickTockOverclock

Hey y'all, took a little break from the thread but wanted to check back in. Is the Unify-X mobo still performing the best? I remember the Apex was having some issues. I'm also thinking of selling some of me earlier Corsair DDR5, what's OCing the best currently? Mine are Hynix chips.


----------



## CptSpig

jomama22 said:


> Ok? This is like the 20th post you have made about it. Not really sure what relevancy you are trying to make other than you having a motherboard that's not borked?


Did you read his quote? I agreed with what he said. You act like this is directed at you just chill dude.


----------



## jomama22

TickTockOverclock said:


> Hey y'all, took a little break from the thread but wanted to check back in. Is the Unify-X mobo still performing the best? I remember the Apex was having some issues. I'm also thinking of selling some of me earlier Corsair DDR5, what's OCing the best currently? Mine are Hynix chips.


Not sure about best really. For consistency in performance, Dark, unify-X and 2022 Apex production are fine (2021 are a crapshoot). All Darks on here and other forums have no issues getting 7000+ 1T, 2022 Apex does the same but with 2T, Unify-X seems to really cap around 6800 2T with some doing 7000. Unify itx seems better than Unify-X for memory.


----------



## SoldierRBT

CptSpig said:


> Here is my APEX doing 7000 and it's a 2021 board with 12900K all from the EGG. ON Air....
> View attachment 2563750
> View attachment 2563750


Still no TM5 or Karhu ? 1.60v VDD under 28C on air with stock heatsink doesn't seem possible unless ambient temps are below 15C. Would be great to see GB3 score.


----------



## CptSpig

SoldierRBT said:


> Still no TM5 or Karhu ? 1.60v VDD under 28C on air with stock heatsink doesn't seem possible unless ambient temps are below 15C. Would be great to see GB3 score.


Not really bench marking this machine any longer. Using a wet bench with fan on dimms. . Just enjoying my gaming. See 6600 CR1 with Karhu and 6800 with TM5.


----------



## chibi

asdkj1740 said:


> okay no more trolling.
> 
> just dont treat msi 2 dimm mobos as god, although ppl here tend to trash apex while praise unifyx at the same time.
> but your case is even rare, i have been seeing some msi users having trouble to boot over 6600/6666, but those are with 12900k only.
> i would suggest instead of getting a new kit, just get another cpu to check whether your 12900ks is trash.
> 
> if you look into all the pages of this thread (and the asus's thread), you shall see some msi users complaining 6000mhz xmp as well.


I did individual sticks, and trying different dimm placements as well. Neither stick can post above 6600. I'll see if there's any luck with a new ram kit first before I think about binning cpu's and boards.


----------



## DanGleeballs

I'm now happy with 6400 C32 1T I've done multiple back to back y-cruncher runs, Karhu and played hours of Battlefield yesterday (Battlefield found errors Karhu didn't in testing).
First sub 68 second y-cruncher run with CPU at this speed
Probably should have gone C30 but I just cba to go back and test it again. Will go back to work on 6600 1T now. I think I can keep them cool up to 1.5v at a push.
Corsair Dominators 6200 Unify-X 12700kf +2 boost P and E cores. VDD2 1.28 SA 1.15 CPU VDDQ 1.37 VDD/VDDQ 1.45 Actual values can be seen in hwifo


----------



## tubs2x4

DanGleeballs said:


> I'm now happy with 6400 C32 1T I've done multiple back to back y-cruncher runs, Karhu and played hours of Battlefield yesterday (Battlefield found errors Karhu didn't in testing).
> First sub 68 second y-cruncher run with CPU at this speed
> Probably should have gone C30 but I just cba to go back and test it again. Will go back to work on 6600 1T now. I think I can keep them cool up to 1.5v at a push.
> Corsair Dominators 6200 Unify-X 12700kf +2 boost P and E cores. VDD2 1.28 SA 1.15 CPU VDDQ 1.37 VDD/VDDQ 1.45 Actual values can be seen in hwifo
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563768
> View attachment 2563769


Modern warfare will find errors with ram to… just out of the blue game locks up. Windows still fine but back to the drawing board ha. I think too high trefi might cause issues in games. I just leave that on auto now.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

tubs2x4 said:


> Modern warfare will find errors with ram to… just out of the blue game locks up. Windows still fine but back to the drawing board ha. I think too high trefi might cause issues in games. I just leave that on auto now.



To high of an ecore clock will show itself with warzone as well. I kept banging my head against the wall with it and it ended up being 4200MHz was to much dropped them down to 4100 and the issue disappeared.


----------



## DanGleeballs

tubs2x4 said:


> Modern warfare will find errors with ram to… just out of the blue game locks up. Windows still fine but back to the drawing board ha. I think too high trefi might cause issues in games. I just leave that on auto now.


Games always seem to find errors that hours of mem testing doesn't. I even put Graphics card to stock because it was just like driver crash first time in Battlefield


----------



## tubs2x4

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> To high of an ecore clock will show itself with warzone as well. I kept banging my head against the wall with it and it ended up being 4200MHz was to much dropped them down to 4100 and the issue disappeared.


Interesting with ecore thing.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

tubs2x4 said:


> Interesting with ecore thing.


Yeah it would ctd no message nothing.


----------



## db000

Yet another productive day spent with my new "Babe". GF is quite sick of me giving "babe" all of my attention, insted of her, well well...  jokes aside, she is nice about it and happy for me 

*6800-30-40-40-30-360-2T*
_VDD/VDDQ: 1.55v
VDDQ TX: 1.45v
VDD2: 1.4v
VCCSA: 1.35v_

Quite happy ending up 6800C30 with 4 4 16 and 360. So far this board has really brought me alot of fun, I'm very pleased I started out with my Apex and all the hours I put into that board and some "wonky" BIOSes. Not yet tried the A.31 BIOS on this board, from what I've heard here it might even be better then this A.42.










Also one hour in BF2042, bumped vcore (1.35v) for BF2042 and Auto LLC. BF2042 is alot heavier on the CPU then for example Apex Legends. I'm saving this as stable now and will return for improving it more later on. Time to enjoy some more BF2042, before attempting a good 7000 as next goal


----------



## satinghostrider

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> To high of an ecore clock will show itself with warzone as well. I kept banging my head against the wall with it and it ended up being 4200MHz was to much dropped them down to 4100 and the issue disappeared.


Yup I was sorting these kinda crashes for the longest time in Vanguard and only Vanguard. It was E-core instability. I managed to run 4.2 by bumping L2 voltage to 1.15v.


----------



## bigfootnz

db000 said:


> Yet another productive day spent with my new "Babe". GF is quite sick of me giving "babe" all of my attention, insted of her, well well...  jokes aside, she is nice about it and happy for me
> 
> *6800-30-40-40-30-360-2T*
> _VDD/VDDQ: 1.55v
> VDDQ TX: 1.45v
> VDD2: 1.4v
> VCCSA: 1.35v_
> 
> Quite happy ending up 6800C30 with 4 4 16 and 360. So far this board has really brought me alot of fun, I'm very pleased I started out with my Apex and all the hours I put into that board and some "wonky" BIOSes. Not yet tried the A.31 BIOS on this board, from what I've heard here it might even be better then this A.42.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also one hour in BF2042, bumped vcore (1.35v) for BF2042 and Auto LLC. BF2042 is alot heavier on the CPU then for example Apex Legends. I'm saving this as stable now and will return for improving it more later on. Time to enjoy some more BF2042, before attempting a good 7000 as next goal


I can see that your RTL has droped from 64/65 to 62/63. This is only as you have reduced CAS from 32 to 30? For TM5 test to be valid you have to run it with admin rights.
Ignore this, I change CAS to 30 and I've same RTL's


----------



## Raphie

db000 said:


> Yet another productive day spent with my new "Babe". GF is quite sick of me giving "babe" all of my attention, insted of her, well well...  jokes aside, she is nice about it and happy for me
> 
> *6800-30-40-40-30-360-2T*
> _VDD/VDDQ: 1.55v
> VDDQ TX: 1.45v
> VDD2: 1.4v
> VCCSA: 1.35v_
> 
> Quite happy ending up 6800C30 with 4 4 16 and 360. So far this board has really brought me alot of fun, I'm very pleased I started out with my Apex and all the hours I put into that board and some "wonky" BIOSes. Not yet tried the A.31 BIOS on this board, from what I've heard here it might even be better then this A.42.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also one hour in BF2042, bumped vcore (1.35v) for BF2042 and Auto LLC. BF2042 is alot heavier on the CPU then for example Apex Legends. I'm saving this as stable now and will return for improving it more later on. Time to enjoy some more BF2042, before attempting a good 7000 as next goal


Nice result, but your cl30 settings bench slower, bandwidth wise, than my cl32 settings and these need 1.55v, mine 1.44v. (A31) Maybe latency in MLC is a bit better, I’m 47,9ns
lower values are not always faster. You can very quickly validate yourself.
I’m really curious if you can get 7000 to post and what vdd is needed. I couldn‘t get a starting point yet @ 1.5v (didn’t try any higher)


----------



## Acegr

I got a question.
I've been running 6000 @1.45v, testmem5 passed on extreme anta, y cruncher passed both 1b - 2.5b but I ran prime95 on ram stressing and after 2 hours or so it gave 2 errors and pc restarted. Can we consider this unstable or we do not check with prime95?

Btw, what ram cooler should I buy till I buy a watercooling one(I'll buy it close to maintenance, 5 months later or so)


----------



## BigHilo

I've been having a very hard time deciding between the Asus Z690-i and the Z690i Unify ..

I kinda prefer the Asus feature set (mainly better per-core OC, BIOS in general, optical out and BIOS flashback) but I love memory overclocking too...and I got an awesome deal on a Gskill TZ5 6400cl32 kit a week ago, so I'm eager to see how those perform.

Long story short, just when I put my heart on the Z690i Unify, I hear great stories about the newest Asus BIOS wrt Mem OC on other forums. Alas, no reports about the Asus Z690-i... Has anybody here had the chance to tinker with the new 1505 BIOS on the Asus Z690-i (ITX)?


----------



## Raphie

Unify(-x) has proven itself, crystal clear what to expect. Not sure what you mean with other per core options, Both have per/all core options?


----------



## bigfootnz

Raphie said:


> Nice result, but your cl30 settings bench slower, bandwidth wise, than my cl32 settings and these need 1.55v, mine 1.44v. (A31) Maybe latency in MLC is a bit better, I’m 47,9ns
> lower values are not always faster. You can very quickly validate yourself.
> I’m really curious if you can get 7000 to post and what vdd is needed. I couldn‘t get a starting point yet @ 1.5v (didn’t try any higher)


Are you comparing his results in AIDA with your one in MLC? AIDA is not comparable between two different PC's, even on your own PC results with AIDA results vary from so many variables or even from multiple runs.

Are you saying that bios A31 is better for mem OC than A41, for you?


----------



## Raphie

No ofcourse not, aida vs aida, my screens are on previous pages.


----------



## bigfootnz

Raphie said:


> No ofcourse not, aida vs aida, my screens are on previous pages.


Still I would not use AIDA as accurate comparison tool. It is really inconsistent and depend on lot of variables.

Can I see your timings for that AIDA result? Thanks


----------



## 8472

What is the max safe 24/7 voltage for DDR5? I've seen kits with an XMP voltage of 1.4V, but wondering if 1.5-1.6V is safe for daily usage. 

Apologies if this has already been answered.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

8472 said:


> What is the max safe 24/7 voltage for DDR5? I've seen kits with an XMP voltage of 1.4V, but wondering if 1.5-1.6V is safe for daily usage.
> 
> Apologies if this has already been answered.



If your temps are under control it'll be fine. Mine max out under high stress via memory test apps at around 53C after hours of testing and that's fine. I run mine at 1.55V 32-40-40-32-2t 6800MHz. Use air cooling on them however you see fit but, do it.


----------



## 8472

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> If your temps are under control it'll be fine. Mine max out under high stress via memory test apps at around 53C after hours of testing and that's fine. I run mine at 1.55V 32-40-40-32-2t 6800MHz. Use air cooling on them however you see fit but, do it.


Thanks! Curious to see how high I can get my 6000 kit to.


----------



## 2500k_2

JEDEC vs. Intel DDR5 specs – timings tRRD_S, tRRD_L, tFAW and tRTP in benchmark tests with Alder Lake | igor'sLAB


Today I want to talk about a guilty pleasure of mine, the overclocking of RAM, more precisely DDR5 and its timings. There is a strange difference between the specifications of JEDEC, the standard'




www.igorslab.de


----------



## db000

2500k_2 said:


> JEDEC vs. Intel DDR5 specs – timings tRRD_S, tRRD_L, tFAW and tRTP in benchmark tests with Alder Lake | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Today I want to talk about a guilty pleasure of mine, the overclocking of RAM, more precisely DDR5 and its timings. There is a strange difference between the specifications of JEDEC, the standard'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


Thanks!
Perfect timing of igorlab, really been thinking about the impact of 4 4 16, 8 4 16/32 recently.


----------



## Raphie

2500k_2 said:


> JEDEC vs. Intel DDR5 specs – timings tRRD_S, tRRD_L, tFAW and tRTP in benchmark tests with Alder Lake | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Today I want to talk about a guilty pleasure of mine, the overclocking of RAM, more precisely DDR5 and its timings. There is a strange difference between the specifications of JEDEC, the standard'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


It’s all about sweetspots and keeping the flow going…. Told this many times, lower is not always better, but often chocking the system.


----------



## ChaosAD

Just got home with the new toy...


----------



## Raphie

bigfootnz said:


> Still I would not use AIDA as accurate comparison tool. It is really inconsistent and depend on lot of variables.
> 
> Can I see your timings for that AIDA result? Thanks


They have been posted before, but for your comfort:
(mind u, this is stock CPU, no CPU OC)
Note the 3Gb difference in AIDA64 and MLC, that's why MLC is more interesting.


----------



## Raphie

Moving TFAW from 32 (as advised by AUTO) to 24, see what happens, 16 is even worse, as bandwidth takes a nosedive.


----------



## Acegr

Look what I found for 20e from someone that was selling it brand new haha, it's from 2008!!! I didn't wanna buy the 60e platinum rgb one cause in a few months when I have to clean my pc and change water I'll get a ram block to add.


----------



## db000

Acegr said:


> Look what I found for 20e from someone that was selling it brand new haha, it's from 2008!!! I didn't wanna buy the 60e platinum rgb one cause in a few months when I have to clean my pc and change water I'll get a ram block to add.
> View attachment 2563833


Wow, remember buying one of those new back in 2008, had Tri-SLi GTX280s on a EVGA board with E8400 OCd w/ two Dominator sticks. Good times. I remember it being loud AF tho.


----------



## JoeRambo

Raphie said:


> Moving TFAW from 32 (as advised by AUTO) to 24, see what happens, 16 is even worse, as bandwidth takes a nosedive.


It's all about minimums that are supported by technology. Minimum RRD/RRDL were 4 for DDR4 and accordingly tFAW minimum was 16.
DDR5 has RRD/RRDL minimum of 8, so minimum tFAW is 32.

What happens when timings are set in a wrong way, say below minimum? Noone knows for sure, MRC corrects those values, but value "displayed" might not be what is used, cause some internal register might get substracted etc. It can be seen in Igors testing, where small 2/2/8 trigger real bad values for, while 4/4/16 is still corrected for.

So best way to set up DDR5 is not go below minimums in JEDEC, as that what actual memory registers only allow. And it will lead to best performance.

tRDRD_SG/tRDRD_dg => someone should look at JEDEC, but i suspect they are 8/8 minimum, with 12/8 being first practical value that is usable.


----------



## Acegr

db000 said:


> Wow, remember buying one of those new back in 2008, had Tri-SLi GTX280s on a EVGA board with E8400 OCd w/ two Dominator sticks. Good times. I remember it being loud AF tho.


sound seems fine, not too loud or anything. As for temps I'll check


----------



## Raphie

JoeRambo said:


> It's all about minimums that are supported by technology. Minimum RRD/RRDL were 4 for DDR4 and accordingly tFAW minimum was 16.
> DDR5 has RRD/RRDL minimum of 8, so minimum tFAW is 32.
> 
> What happens when timings are set in a wrong way, say below minimum? Noone knows for sure, MRC corrects those values, but value "displayed" might not be what is used, cause some internal register might get substracted etc.
> 
> So best way to set up DDR5 is not go below minimums in JEDEC, as that what actual memory registers only allow. And it will lead to best performance.
> 
> tRDRD_SG/tRDRD_dg => someone should look at JEDEC, but i suspect they are 8/8 minimum, with 12/8 being first practical value that is usable.


Indeed, I experiment a lot with auto to discover what the relationships are and the impact of lowering values on benchmarks. It has become a sweetspot/relationship game imho. Where lower doesn’t equal better. 
and this is where it gets interesting, with “conservative” values at 6800 you bench faster than some “optimized“ configs at 7K. While doing that with 0.2v less.


----------



## rulik006

Does anyone know when new Samsung/Micron IC's will apear?


----------



## bigfootnz

Raphie said:


> They have been posted before, but for your comfort:
> (mind u, this is stock CPU, no CPU OC)
> Note the 3Gb difference in AIDA64 and MLC, that's why MLC is more interesting.


I saw these timings which you posted in post #5193 and then with AIDA test in post 5195 with latency of 52.1ns. Then in next post you have posted this AIDA with 50.6 and saying "tightening up further ". Is there anything changed from post #5193 and #5196 or this was just variation in AIDA runs?


----------



## Acegr

Damn if I change something more my pc gets stuck  , 1.45v vdd,vddq everything else auto, mind you I haven't oc'd my cpu at all.


db000 said:


> Wow, remember buying one of those new back in 2008, had Tri-SLi GTX280s on a EVGA board with E8400 OCd w/ two Dominator sticks. Good times. I remember it being loud AF tho.


10-12c down on load btw, seems good for 20e😂


----------



## db000

No success with 7000, 6933 barely boots. Auto rest.
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v

Also tried same but with 34-44-44-64.
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.60v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.5, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.5, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.45v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.45v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.45v

Staying with 1.35v, because I think 1.4v/1.45v on SA corrupted my two previous Windows installations.

Any suggestions, A.31 BIOS? Need better IMC? Board?

6800C30 for now  (6800-30-40-40-30-360-2T VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v)


----------



## bigfootnz

db000 said:


> No success with 7000, 6933 barely boots. Auto rest.
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
> 
> Also tried same but with 34-44-44-64.
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.60v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.5, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.5, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.45v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.65v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.45v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v
> 32-42-42-64 VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.45v
> 
> Staying with 1.35v, because I think 1.4v/1.45v on SA corrupted my two previous Windows installations.
> 
> Any suggestions, A.31 BIOS? Need better IMC? Board?
> 
> 6800C30 for now  (6800-30-40-40-30-360-2T VDD/VDDQ 1.55v, VDDQ TX 1.45, VCCSA 1.35v, VDD2 1.4v)


I think that Unify-X tops at the 6800, just like @jomama22 said few pages before. I've stopped trying 7000, and only focused on 6933. I do not have any problem booting into 6933 or 7000 but making it stable is another story. Tonight I'll try my other KS SP90, as if I'm not wrong this that KS I was able to boot in 7200, so maybe it has stronger IMC.

Maybe I'm wrong but what I noticed with my board is that it do not like any voltages over 1.5v.

I would try bios A31, but not sure does it support KS? Maybe @Raphie can chime in with A31 bios date and we can see was it before or after KS release date.

I would strongly recommend having Windows backup, as mem OC easily corrupt Win. I'm using Macrium Reflect and it is less than 5 min to restore Win.


----------



## db000

bigfootnz said:


> I think that Unify-X tops at the 6800, just like @jomama22 said few pages before. I've stopped trying 7000, and only focused on 6933. I do not have any problem booting into 6933 or 7000 but making it stable is another story. Tonight I'll try my other KS SP90, as if I'm not wrong this that KS I was able to boot in 7200, so maybe it has stronger IMC.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but what I noticed with my board is that it do not like any voltages over 1.5v.
> 
> I would try bios A31, but not sure does it support KS? Maybe @Raphie can chime in with A31 bios date and we can see was it before or after KS release date.
> 
> I would strongly recommend having Windows backup, as mem OC easily corrupt Win. I'm using Macrium Reflect and it is less than 5 min to restore Win.


Maybe it does, feels like it. Allready sold my old 12900K, so can't test that IMC either.

VDDQ TX seems to top out at 1.45v, no successful training with 1.5v at all. What I've noticed is that the Unify-X is not at all touchy with the VDD2/MC voltage like my Apex was.

Yes, I have a image of my Windows drive now. Makes it a little bit faster getting back. Only had one corruption of Windows with the Apex board, but that was during month of testing and I know I didn't do high SA on that one because it would just be bad, like so many others. 1.10v-1.20v SA was a sweet spot there for me.


----------



## db000

Opinions on VDD2/MC voltage past 1.40> ?
1.45v seems excessive, done some testing for boot on it tho.


----------



## bigfootnz

Yes, I agree Unify-X is so easy to OC comparing to Asus regarding voltages for mem OC. On Hero even simple thing like restoring BIOS profile didn't worked how it should and I had to go in some voodoo magic to make it working again


----------



## Nizzen

db000 said:


> Opinions on VDD2/MC voltage past 1.40> ?
> 1.45v seems excessive, done some testing for boot on it tho.


Testing g.skill 6400c32 on air with 1.67v vdd/vddq  1.38mc. @ 7000c30 very tight. Just too see if it can handle the heat. Direct fan.

I think it can handle it for shure 

Strange Apex doing 1.05-1.1 SA for 7000c30/32 and Unify x likes way more?
Computers are strange 😆


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> Testing g.skill 6400c32 on air with 1.67v vdd/vddq  1.38mc. @ 7000c30 very tight. Just too see if it can handle the heat. Direct fan.
> 
> I think it can handle it for shure
> 
> Strange Apex doing 1.05-1.1 SA for 7000c30/32 and Unify x likes way more?
> Computers are strange 😆


My dark doesn't like anything above default SA, so .915v, for 7000c30


----------



## bigfootnz

Nizzen said:


> Testing g.skill 6400c32 on air with 1.67v vdd/vddq  1.38mc. @ 7000c30 very tight. Just too see if it can handle the heat. Direct fan.
> 
> I think it can handle it for shure
> 
> Strange Apex doing 1.05-1.1 SA for 7000c30/32 and Unify x likes way more?
> Computers are strange 😆


Same thing like Asus like VDDQ TX to be highest of the VDD/VDDQ when on MSI is around 1.4/1.45v max. I think that Z690 is just test bench for all manufacturers.


----------



## db000

jomama22 said:


> My dark doesn't like anything above default SA, so .915v, for 7000c30


I wish I was able to test the dark, EVGA doesn't list it on the EU store. US store doesn't allow orders outside of the states.


----------



## jomama22

db000 said:


> I wish I was able to test the dark, EVGA doesn't list it on the EU store. US store doesn't allow orders outside of the states.


They sell do sell on ebay.


----------



## SoldierRBT

db000 said:


> Opinions on VDD2/MC voltage past 1.40> ?
> 1.45v seems excessive, done some testing for boot on it tho.


There's definitely a sweetspot for stability between VDD2 (MC) and CPU VDDQ (TX VDDQ) which depends on the RAM frequency you running. On my case, I see good results keeping them 100mv apart from each other. For consistent booting, timings and RAM VDDQ are important to set them correctly.


----------



## affxct

chibi said:


> Hi guys, first time overclocking ddr5. I'm using 12900ks + msi z690i unify itx + kingston fury 6000 32gb kit. I set voltages as follows:
> 
> 
> CPU Core Voltage Monitor - VCC Sense
> CPU Core Voltage Mode - Override Mode
> CPU Core Voltage 1.350
> CPU SA Voltage Mode - Override Mode
> CPU SA Voltage - 1.250
> CPU VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
> CPU VDD2 Voltage - 1.400
> CPU AUX Voltage - 1.900
> CPU PLL SFR Voltage - 1.095
> RING PLL SFR Voltage - 0.975
> SA PLL SFR Voltage - 0.960
> MC PLL SFR Voltage - 1.050
> DRAM Voltage - 1.450
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage - 1.450
> Set ram to 30, 40, 40, 28 2n, secondary and third auto.
> 
> 7000 - No post
> 6800 - No post
> 6600 - Post but error Kahru right away
> 6400 - Post and stable 1000%
> 
> Reset to bios, keep same voltages and adjust secondary and thirds - 10,000% stable. Looks like my memory chips are low bin? Anything you guys can suggest? My RTLs are 61/62 auto. Are there any tweaks to set lower? I'm just focus on ram for now. Mora and cpu block coming next week.
> 
> Current cpu heatsink is Noctua NH-C14S. There is no room underneath the heatsink to add fan to memory modules.
> 
> View attachment 2563601
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563605


6400C30 @ 1.45 DRAM VDD/Q isn't really bad at all


----------



## Raphie

I settle at 6666 1.395v for daily, benches nearly the same bandwidth (107Gb v/s 109Gb) Y-crunches the same (<63sec) on stock CPU.
my conclusion is that regardless how you get there, the Unify-X gskill combo maxes out at 109Gb throughput with 49<51ns latency. Whether you get there with 6666, 6800, or 7000 doesn’t matter.
the benches plateau. Higher Mhz just need more VDD and will only stabilize around the same bandwidth plateau, not higher. Then it’s just a question which config gets you there the most efficient, when 100% stable (both Y-cruncher multiple runs and Karhu) for me the undisputed sweetspot is then 6666.


----------



## sugi0lover

Raphie said:


> I settle at 6666 1.395v for daily, benches nearly the same bandwidth (107Gb v/s 109Gb) Y-crunches the same (<63sec) on stock CPU.
> my conclusion is that regardless how you get there, the Unify-X gskill combo maxes out at 109Gb throughput with 49<51ns latency. Whether you get there with 6666, 6800, or 7000 doesn’t matter.
> the benches plateau. Higher Mhz just need more VDD and will only stabilize around the same bandwidth plateau, not higher. Then it’s just a question which config gets you there the most efficient, when 100% stable (both Y-cruncher multiple runs and Karhu) for me the undisputed sweetspot is then 6666.


It's Teamgroup ram kit not gskill, but I see Unify-X also scales well with ram clock.


----------



## Acegr

My kit is a 5600 one, if I try to change something from timings it gets stuck but at this it seems stable. Any suggestions?


----------



## Raphie

But not stable, booting and a few AIDA’s is not the problem, getting it 100% stable is.
Maybe the teamgroup is a bit better, but on gskill I’ve not been able to replicate. Passing Karhu yes, passing y-cruncher 2.5b, not once, but at least 5/5 runs, not so much. Passing testmem anta is easy. 
also water v/s air makes a big difference for your temp ceiling. Your screen is not possible on air.
And for other screens ecores off doesn’t count. As that makes no sense for daily usage.
for me the game is <63sec at stock cpu, or <60 depending on stock OC
i.e. 63sec on stock, gives you 58 give or take on 5200
show me that 7000Mhz takes you to <60sec with ecores enabled on stock cpu clock and there is real gain. Otherwise it means nothing.


----------



## sugi0lover

Raphie said:


> But not stable, booting and a few AIDA’s is not the problem, getting it 100% stable is.
> Maybe the teamgroup is a bit better, but on gskill I’ve not been able to replicate. Passing Karhu yes, passing y-cruncher 2.5b, not once, but at least 5/5 runs, not so much.
> also water v/s air makes a big difference for your temp ceiling.


It's not my result and it's on air as you can see the temp. People use different method to find their stable setup, so they don't need to follow your way.
That guy used Tm5 extreme to test its stability.


----------



## sugi0lover

This is Unify itx and Oloy Ram on air with e cores on (not my oc) and I see it also scales well with ram clock.


----------



## jeiselramos

My new Teamgroup 6400C40 are way better than my old Kingston 6000C40
which required 1.48vdd for 6400C30 1T 
these require 1,435 and I haven't tried to lower it yet


----------



## ChaosAD

First boot on the UnifyX, just throwed some volts in the bios (no fine tuning i mean) and booted 6666c32 no problem at all, it is even 1000% karhu stable. Apex could only be stable at 6200c30 and booted at 6400c32, btw its going back.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

ChaosAD said:


> First boot on the UnifyX, just throwed some volts in the bios (no fine tuning i mean) and booted 6666c32 no problem at all, it is even 1000% karhu stable. Apex could only be stable at 6200c30 and booted at 6400c32, btw its going back.
> 
> View attachment 2563878



Your overclock isn't stable. Look at your voltage readings on asrock timing configurator. It should read correctly if it's stable, 100% of the time. I've noticed this behavior and it's a fact.


----------



## Nelfhunt

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Your overclock isn't stable. Look at your voltage readings on asrock timing configurator. It should read correctly if it's stable, 100% of the time. I've noticed this behavior and it's a fact.


No. Just no, really.


----------



## Raphie

the 7K @ 1.57 is nice btw, good yielding. My setup doesn't allow that. 
For me it stops with my current settings. trying to improve anything further and things no longer pass, or some hidden correction kicks in and things are slower. 
Sometimes I'm contemplating buying a KS or a 2nd K, but a KS on a D15 doesn't really make sense.


----------



## db000

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Your overclock isn't stable. Look at your voltage readings on asrock timing configurator. It should read correctly if it's stable, 100% of the time. I've noticed this behavior and it's a fact.


On Unify-X, AsRTC* doesn't read voltages correctly of the second channel. Nothing to do with stability or not.
It also lists ChannelB, that do no physically exist...










*Version 4.0.13


----------



## sugi0lover

Raphie said:


> the 7K @ 1.57 is nice btw, good yielding. My setup doesn't allow that.
> For me it stops with my current settings. trying to improve anything further and things no longer pass, or some hidden correction kicks in and things are slower.
> Sometimes I'm contemplating buying a KS or a 2nd K, but a KS on a D15 doesn't really make sense.


Since you are interested in low voltage/on air/ e cores on, here are some OC results of my friends that you can take a look at.
Anyway, I am not here to compete but to share info so that people can get better. Good luck on your OC journey 😊

[7000 CL32 @ 1.395v]









[7200 CL32 @ 1.50v]

















[7400 CL32 @ 1.59v] Edit : Higher Resolution Pic


----------



## asdkj1740

Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive







drive.google.com





15/6/22
these are advanced beta bios, at your own risk as always.
unify x - a62u2
unify - 171u1
unify itx - 171u1
pro a wifi - a71u1
pro a - a71u1

the log of these new bios:
"strengthen hynix oc"
"fix external clock gen (bclk oc) randomly stuck in some debug code"



i also got two older versions for unify x, a42u1 and a62u1, but these had never been uploaded to google drive ever (the last one is a32u4).
ps. try not to use old graphics cards//gpu that need csm mode enabled to work properly.


----------



## sugi0lover

asdkj1740 said:


> Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 15/6/22
> unify x - a62u2
> unify - 171u1
> unify itx - 171u1
> pro a wifi - a71u1
> pro a - a71u1
> 
> these are advanced beta bios, at your own risk as always.
> i also got an older version for unify x, a42u1, but this one had not been uploaded to google drive ever.
> ps. try not to use old graphics cards//gpu that need csm mode enabled for these bios.
> for a42u1 the log is " for non k oc, no support for csm gpu".


My two friends tested unify x a62u2 for two days and they said it's a lot better.
Both couldn't boot 7000 before, one limited 6600 and the other 6800 and they can boot 7000 no problem on this new bios.
And one of them finally stabilized his 6800 CL32 on this bios. Just for your information!


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> My two friends tested unify x a62u2 and they said it's a lot better.
> Both couldn't boot 7000 before, one limited 6600 and the other 6800 and they can boot 7000 no problem on this new bios.
> And one of them finally stabilized his 6800 CL32 on this bios. Just for your information!


thanks for the info!
but saying unify x got limited at 6600mhz here is illegal, saying that for apex only is valid.

just kidding)
i was thinking whether i should try this new bios, now you give me no choice haha.


----------



## sugi0lover

db000 said:


> On Unify-X, AsRTC* doesn't read voltages correctly of the second channel. Nothing to do with stability or not.
> It also lists ChannelB, that do no physically exist...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Version 4.0.13


I saw this Unify itx showing voltages correctly, but this bios was old one before voltage unlock function bios, which limited vdd 1.435 at that time for non xmp ram.


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> My two friends tested unify x a62u2 for two days and they said it's a lot better.
> Both couldn't boot 7000 before, one limited 6600 and the other 6800 and they can boot 7000 no problem on this new bios.
> And one of them finally stabilized his 6800 CL32 on this bios. Just for your information!


i just saw the log of these new bios:
"strengthen hynix oc"
"fix external clock gen (bclk oc) randomly stuck in some debug code"

it seems intel has stepped in, the new asus bios 15xx recenly is said to be hugely improved as well.


----------



## Raphie

Wow great news then. Will try!


----------



## sugi0lover

This is my friend OC with the new Unify X bios. Even though his ram sticks are not highly binned, so need higher voltages, he couldn't stabilize this setup on the previous bios.
He has tried it for a month and failed, Now he got it stable in 1 day on new bios. But plz don't generalize.
He is now trying 7000 😊


----------



## Raphie

I know, the Y-cruncher 2.5b @ 6800 was a pain. I just loaded A62U2 and even some of the AUTO values have changed, looks very promising.


----------



## db000

sugi0lover said:


> My two friends tested unify x a62u2 for two days and they said it's a lot better.
> Both couldn't boot 7000 before, one limited 6600 and the other 6800 and they can boot 7000 no problem on this new bios.
> And one of them finally stabilized his 6800 CL32 on this bios. Just for your information!


Great info, thanks for sharing


----------



## chentj1988

6600 cl28 with 2.5B Y-Cruncher


----------



## db000

I've just updated now, A62U2. 7000 trains and boots 🥳 Awesome! @sugi0lover
Now to find a good set of voltages. I'm on the high side of voltages, like @bigfootnz previously said, board doesn't seem particularly thrilled about high voltages. For me on the dimms, like I'm used to on my Apex.

Building up my 6800C30 profile again, see if I can lower some voltages and maybe some tighter timings.


----------



## jeiselramos

Latest Bios is great , I can boot 7000 but I've instant bsod so I've to try some different things.
6800C28 2T no problem in Y-cruncher


Edit: 
Better for 2T
Worse for 1T


----------



## bigfootnz

I can say that latest bios is great improvement.

I've done 6400C28 1T stable with relatively mild voltages VDD/VDDQ 1.5v, VDDQ TX 1.25, VCCSA 1.25v, VDD2 1.4v. This was easy to achieve. On A42 1T was not go in my case. This still have room for improvement, but I want to try now 6933/7000 if it is possible.





















I was even able to boot 7200 but I think that for this mobo it is just too much.
I've tried quickly 7000 but it is really hard case to crack.

At the moment I'm testing 6933 32-42-42 and it looks promising.

What I've found, at least in my case, is to increase VDD VPP and CPU AUX voltage between 1.8 and 1.9v. Probably for everybody will be different but it is worth a shot.

Also, I can add that with A62 voltages are even lower comparing with A42 needed for stability.

I've tried second KS and I can say that MC on CPU is not holding me. It is either mobo or RAM.


----------



## jeiselramos

6400C28 1T 
1.53 VDD 1.48 VDDQ


----------



## Raphie

a62 @ 6666, this work beautifully. But still the same random "coefficient too large" every 1 out of 5 Y-crunchers when trying to get 6800 stable. No other issues, it passes 4 out of 5, but still fails 1/5 (on avg.) I'm not at the point where I want to order a TeamGroup 6400 kit and 12900KS just to see if that solves it. As I'm out of ideas on 6800 (temps below 42c under stress)


----------



## Raphie

Fore the ones who need the latest Dragonball / Power https://wetransfer.com/downloads/9e165a8db416e51d7efde037694c7f1e20220612175330/454dc6ef21eb0d5bbe5ad9937d7a7b2620220612175330/729845  
grab it while it's there, wetransfer up for 2 more days.


----------



## Raphie

bigfootnz said:


> I can say that latest bios is great improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> What I've found, at least in my case, is to increase VDD VPP and CPU AUX voltage between 1.8 and 1.9v. Probably for everybody will be different but it is worth a shot.
> 
> Also, I can add that with A62 voltages are even lower comparing with A42 needed for stability.
> 
> I've tried second KS and I can say that MC on CPU is not holding me. It is either mobo or RAM.


This seems to have solved my 6800 Y-cruncher mischiefs. Just did 10 in a row, no issues. Now tightening up further


----------



## Raphie

A62U2 is great, I can now run Y-cruncher 2.5b 10x in row without an error Yeah!!!! 
The culprit was the tRDRD_sg & tWRWR-sg (18/36 on auto) when these go lower, Y-cruncher doesn't pass after 4 or 5 runs. When these are auto they pass 10/10 15/15, VVD does not matter, went all the way up to 1.55 VDD, same issue. 
Mind you this is only an issue on 6800, on 6666 and lower, I have them as low as 11 & 13!!! but on 6800 stability issues, even from 36 > 24 does not pass

Anyway, that's the reason why my Write and Copy aren't there* yet* (as they both should hover around 105gb) but the read is already insane, but at least it's now finally unambiguously stable  and this at ONLY 1.44v VDD


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> A62U2 is great, I can now run Y-cruncher 2.5b 10x in row without an error Yeah!!!!
> The culprit was the tRDRD_sg & tWRWR-sg (18/36 on auto) when these go lower, Y-cruncher doesn't pass after 4 or 5 runs. When these are auto they pass 10/10 15/15, VVD does not matter, went all the way up to 1.55 VDD, same issue.
> Mind you this is only an issue on 6800, on 6666 and lower, I have them as low as 11 & 13!!! but on 6800 stability issues, even from 36 > 24 does not pass
> 
> Anyway, that's the reason why my Write and Copy aren't there* yet* (as they both should hover around 105gb) but the read is already insane, but at least it's now finally unambiguously stable  and this at ONLY 1.44v VDD
> 
> View attachment 2564012
> View attachment 2564013


Nice one. Which ones you leave on auto specifically? And which Volts?


----------



## Raphie

I’ll do some color coding tomorrow, cpu vdd2 1,4 - sa 1,25 - cpu aux locked on 1.8
ram vvd and vddq 1.44v


----------



## Raphie

So I contacted Alex, the author of Y-cruncher and this is what he just replied about the not passing 1 out of 5…

_This is actually normal. Memory is very flaky and doesn’t have the same sharp stability cliff that CPUs usually have. So “slightly unstable” settings may not consistently show in a short test. Some instabilities can take hours or even weeks/months to show.

This is actually one of the reasons why there is often so much memory OC room. Manufacturers are aware of this smooth stability cliff, so they need to spec their speeds to whatever is actually stable - leaving behind a large amount of “free” overclocking room where it is stable to all but a few of the most stressful workloads.

Thanks,
Alex
———————_


----------



## bigfootnz

Raphie said:


> So I contacted Alex, the author of Y-cruncher and this is what he just replied about the not passing 1 out of 5…
> 
> _This is actually normal. Memory is very flaky and doesn’t have the same sharp stability cliff that CPUs usually have. So “slightly unstable” settings may not consistently show in a short test. Some instabilities can take hours or even weeks/months to show.
> 
> This is actually one of the reasons why there is often so much memory OC room. Manufacturers are aware of this smooth stability cliff, so they need to spec their speeds to whatever is actually stable - leaving behind a large amount of “free” overclocking room where it is stable to all but a few of the most stressful workloads.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex
> ———————_


In my case if I'm Karhu stable I can pass Y-cruncher multiple times in the row without any problems.

If I'm not wrong your CPU is not OC? In this case you can just for the test set up 48/49x core with enough voltage just to eliminate your CPU not being stable.


----------



## Raphie

Yes, but have no issues when doing 6666Mhz or lower.
also at 6800 2.5b could pass 5 times in a row and then just fail.
I’ve found the cause, now I need to find the headroom to get write and copy up. 
it’s stable now, but the write and copy of 6666Mhz is 4Gb faster. I’ll find the ideal settings
if I’m achieving 109/104/104 50ns in AIDA @ 1.44v while passing Karhu and 10 Y-crunches 2.5b in a row I’m happy. 
Karhu will pass, it did before, so not to worried about that, the challenge now is to tighten while YC is holding up.


----------



## db000

Raphie said:


> So I contacted Alex, the author of Y-cruncher and this is what he just replied about the not passing 1 out of 5…
> 
> _This is actually normal. Memory is very flaky and doesn’t have the same sharp stability cliff that CPUs usually have. So “slightly unstable” settings may not consistently show in a short test. Some instabilities can take hours or even weeks/months to show.
> 
> This is actually one of the reasons why there is often so much memory OC room. Manufacturers are aware of this smooth stability cliff, so they need to spec their speeds to whatever is actually stable - leaving behind a large amount of “free” overclocking room where it is stable to all but a few of the most stressful workloads.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex
> ———————_


When you pass multiple Y-crunchers after eachother, what are the CPU temp at? Higher temps on the CPU often mean IMC performs worse, the colder = the better(often) for IMC. I've had this with my testing of 6800C30/6933C32, where FANs at Max Speed can pass Karhu as CPU max temp stays below 60c, while putting fans at say "40%" will yeild errors rather quickly as temp rise (70-74c). Can also be achieved with lower clock and lower cache/ring = lower voltage for lower CPU temp.


----------



## Raphie

cpu hits 96 at peak, but IMC might be a thing, got a big fan blowing into it. I dissabled ecores, dissabled avx, tried all of that stuff to mitigate heat, max temps went down, issue stayed. 
but with the lower values as described above, it can also crap out the first run and then do 5 in a row perfect.
since leaving them om auto no more fails. But decreasing a value of 36 > 24 already triggers the random fail again. I can reproduce and mitigate it now, I just need to find out how much headroom I’ve got left. 
6400 / 6600 / 6666 are all done, no concessions, 100% stable, as fast as they can be. 6800 the end is in sight.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP100 (P109/E82) - Stock *For sale, kindly PM me if anyone interested
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.26
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 120mm EK Vardar-S

*2x16GB DDR5-7000 32-42-42-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.60v | TX VDDQ 1.58v | SA 0.975v | MC 1.38v*


















* max SPD Hub temp 63.8c is a bug, actual temp is 47-48c.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 1505
G.Skill Trident Z5R F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Hynix) + 120mm EK Vardar-S

*2x16GB DDR5-6800 32-40-40-30-2T
VDD 1.55v | VDDQ 1.54v | TX VDDQ 1.47v | SA 0.925v | MC 1.375v*


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 1505
G.Skill Trident Z5R F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Hynix IC, Richtek PMIC)
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix IC, ANPEC PMIC)
120mm 120mm EK Vardar-S

*4x16GB DDR5-6200 32-38-38-32-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.45v | SA 0.925v | MC 1.35v







*


----------



## bigfootnz

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP100 (P109/E82) - Stock *For sale, kindly PM me if anyone interested
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.26
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 120mm EK Vardar-S
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7000 32-42-42-28-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.60v | TX VDDQ 1.58v | SA 0.975v | MC 1.38v*
> 
> 
> * max SPD Hub temp 63.8c is a bug, actual temp is 47-48c.


You are able to run stable with low SA? Was that case from the beginning or with latest bios?


----------



## Afferin

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP98 (P98/E80) - Stock
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 1505
> G.Skill Trident Z5R F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Hynix IC, Richtek PMIC)
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix IC, ANPEC PMIC)
> 120mm 120mm EK Vardar-S
> 
> *4x16GB DDR5-6200 32-38-38-32-2T
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.45v | SA 0.925v | MC 1.35v
> View attachment 2564039
> *


I've been trying to get the best possible results on 4x16, and here you are shattering my results..... with mixed sticks!! Very nice. Also incredible voltages! 1.45v VDD/Q/TX is incredible -- I find that 4x16 requires much more VDD/Q/TX than 2x16 for me.


----------



## sugi0lover

bigfootnz said:


> You are able to run stable with low SA? Was that case from the beginning or with latest bios?


I don't know his case, but I have seen some Unify users run stable setup with sa under 1.00v for 6800/7000 setup on old bios.


----------



## owikh84

bigfootnz said:


> You are able to run stable with low SA? Was that case from the beginning or with latest bios?


So far stable in TM5, but can't say the same yet for other tests such as Y-cruncher etc until I try it.
This is my new chip, previously with the old chip I ran 7000C30 at SA 1.15v but I did not manage to stabilize 7000C32 before I sold it off. I've been using BIOS v1.26 since the beginning as I find it more stable than 1.32U2, 1.32U3 and 1.41. Seeing some positive feedbacks on the latest 1.71, I think I should give it a try when I am free later.



Afferin said:


> I've been trying to get the best possible results on 4x16, and here you are shattering my results..... with mixed sticks!! Very nice. Also incredible voltages! 1.45v VDD/Q/TX is incredible -- I find that 4x16 requires much more VDD/Q/TX than 2x16 for me.


For me strong IMC is very important here. I can't stabilize this setting with my other chips even with some voltage adjustments. But for sure I'm not going to use this 4x16gb for 24/7c, I'd prefer 2x16gb 6800c32 for higher performance.


----------



## Raphie

You make me want to buy a bunch of 12900ks chips as well and pick if there is upside. 
but it’s a lot of money for a few ticks extra headroom. But very tempting. Well done!


----------



## bigfootnz

sugi0lover said:


> I don't know his case, but I have seen some Unify users run stable setup with sa under 1.00v for 6800/7000 setup on old bios.


Then I’ll have play tonight with lower SA and see how it works.


----------



## Acegr

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP100 (P109/E82) - Stock *For sale, kindly PM me if anyone interested
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.26
> Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 120mm EK Vardar-S
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7000 32-42-42-28-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.60v | TX VDDQ 1.58v | SA 0.975v | MC 1.38v*
> View attachment 2564031
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564030
> 
> 
> * max SPD Hub temp 63.8c is a bug, actual temp is 47-48c.


Yo, what was your best timings and volts at 6666? We got the same ram.


----------



## chibi

My GS 6400c32 kit arrived today. Not much better than my Fury Beast 6000 kit in my opinion.

Fury 6000 - max stable 6600c30
GSKILL 6400 - can post 6800c30 but not stable

I decided for an extra $584 CAD, it's not worth chasing 200 MHz 

In the end, I was able to get my Fury 6000 kit to stabilize 15,000% at 6600/c30. I will return the GSKILL kit. My KS is low bin, I tested with my friend's asus board and it was SP87 lol.


----------



## owikh84

Acegr said:


> Yo, what was your best timings and volts at 6666? We got the same ram.


I personally never run anything lower than 6800 on this setup but I needed 1.5v for 6800 c32-40-40-28-2T.
Perhaps you can try my settings but reduce the RAM speed to 6666, maybe can lower the voltages slightly by 0.05v depending on the quality of your IMC, RAM etc.

12900K SP88 (P100/E65) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.26
Kingston Fury Beast KF556C40BBK2-32 (Hynix) + 2x Noctua A6x25

*2x16GB DDR5-6800 32-40-40-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.50v | SA 0.95v | MC 1.35v*


----------



## Acegr

This one seems promising although Im worried about those CPU temps tbh. I'm on a custom loop with 3 radiators into push, *are those temps normal for alderlake when stressing? No OC on CPU yet.. *On cyberpunk all max settings max temp I've seen is 66c.
Kingston Fury Beast 2x16GB 5600 Kit at 6400 1.41V VDD,VDDQ, 1.35V VDD2, 0.95V SA 

Testing stability now then I'll try to tight more.


----------



## sugi0lover

Unify X ram OC result which was not stable on previous bios but stable on A.62U2 (it's not my oc)
7000 32-42-42-30-340-2T on air

CPU SA : 1.000v
CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX) : 1.400v
CPU VDD2 : 1.360v
DRAM VDD : 1.470v
DRAM VDDQ : 1.470v
DRAM VPP : 1.800v



















Spoiler: Bios Setup


----------



## Raphie

I like the 1.47 VDD/VDDQ
On my list to try, ThnX for sharing


----------



## ChaosAD

A little update, at least managed to boot at 6933


----------



## Raphie

Nice, that should boot with 1.47v as well no?


----------



## ChaosAD

If it's not stable does it matter how low it boots? With 1.51v it's not, all these Chinese people have godly bins!

Edit: weird, if I add 0.02v to VDD/VDDQ it doesn't train


----------



## Raphie

hold the retry button on the remote, it will train. can take up to three mins.


----------



## Raphie

I really want to rule out my IMC and I'm about to pull the trigger on a KS, hoping for a better bin. Should I do it, or 699,00 down the drain as no IMC upside expected....


----------



## chentj1988

Raphie said:


> I really want to rule out my IMC and I'm about to pull the trigger on a KS, hoping for a better bin. Should I do it, or 699,00 down the drain as no IMC upside expected....


Just buy pre-binned one. Lol…


----------



## SoldierRBT

sugi0lover said:


> It's not my result and it's on air as you can see the temp. People use different method to find their stable setup, so they don't need to follow your way.
> That guy used Tm5 extreme to test its stability.


Do you know where I can find TM5 Extreme 10 cycles config? The one I have it's 3 long cycles. Thank you


----------



## Raphie

7K 1.47v, not stable though, but hey it boots and completes AIDA  so it's a start.


----------



## sugi0lover

SoldierRBT said:


> Do you know where I can find TM5 Extreme 10 cycles config? The one I have it's 3 long cycles. Thank you


You just need to open MT.cfg with notepad and change Cycles=3 to 10.


----------



## sugi0lover

sugi0lover said:


> Unify X ram OC result which was not stable on previous bios but stable on A.62U2 (it's not my oc)
> 7000 32-42-42-30-340-2T on air
> 
> CPU SA : 1.000v
> CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX) : 1.400v
> CPU VDD2 : 1.360v
> DRAM VDD : 1.470v
> DRAM VDDQ : 1.470v
> DRAM VPP : 1.800v
> 
> View attachment 2564076
> 
> View attachment 2564077
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Bios Setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564111
> View attachment 2564112
> View attachment 2564113
> View attachment 2564114
> View attachment 2564115
> View attachment 2564116
> View attachment 2564117
> View attachment 2564118
> View attachment 2564119
> View attachment 2564120
> View attachment 2564121


Someone asked the guy how the memory force is and the guy posted his force screen.
I don't know well how good this force is, but here it is for the fun.


Spoiler: XMP Memory Force

















Spoiler: 7000 Memory Force


----------



## jomama22

Slightly tighter timings on the dark:

7000 30-39-41-28 1T
1.59v/1.55v/1.825v VDD/VDDQ/VPP; 1.325v VDD2(MC); 1.25v CPU VDDQ (TX); 0.915v(auto) SA
Gained about 100pts in gb3 multi-memory score and slightly higher write and copy bandwidth in aida, very small gain in latency.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

jomama22 said:


> Slightly tighter timings on the dark:
> 
> 7000 30-39-41-28 1T
> 1.59v/1.55v/1.825v VDD/VDDQ/VPP; 1.325v VDD2(MC); 1.25v CPU VDDQ (TX); 0.915v(auto) SA
> Gained about 100pts in gb3 and slightly higher write and copy bandwidth in aida, very small gain in latency.
> 
> View attachment 2564170
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564171
> 
> View attachment 2564172


These companies are making Asus look like trash and I love it. What a failure Asus's BIOS team has become.


----------



## Nizzen

jomama22 said:


> Slightly tighter timings on the dark:
> 
> 7000 30-39-41-28 1T
> 1.59v/1.55v/1.825v VDD/VDDQ/VPP; 1.325v VDD2(MC); 1.25v CPU VDDQ (TX); 0.915v(auto) SA
> Gained about 100pts in gb3 multi-memory score and slightly higher write and copy bandwidth in aida, very small gain in latency.
> 
> View attachment 2564170
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564171
> 
> View attachment 2564172


Nice job!  🤟


----------



## Nizzen

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> These companies are making Asus look like trash and I love it. What a failure Asus's BIOS team has become.


Pleace tell us more  I don't understand what you are trying to say.

(we don't need trolls here on this forums)


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> Pleace tell us more  I don't understand what you are trying to say.
> 
> (we don't need trolls here on this forums)


You know who that is, right?


----------



## Nizzen

jomama22 said:


> You know who that is, right?


A banned user, that are trying to take revenge of the nerds?


----------



## z390e




----------



## Raphie

In progress right now. Y-cruncher solid! 1.47 VDD ThnX to @sugi0lover for the 7K inspirational screenshot on tWRRD_sg & dg
Comfortable enough to make a screenshot while at it


----------



## Raphie

And we're done! 
6800 FINALLY 100% stable for both Karhu and Y-cruncher @ 1.47 VDD
Now I've got a clean baseline and can start tightening one at a time, did another AIDA run. but hovers close enough. 
I think I can get read to 109+ write to 105+ and copy to 103+ without further raising VDD, but for now I did what I told myself yesterday get write and copy up without breaking Y-cruncher


----------



## Raphie

Owh yeah almost forgot with my combo, @ 6800 Karhu really likes tRRD 6/8 rather than 4/7 on 6666 and below you’re fine with 4/7


----------



## Vld

Ran in to weird issue with ddr5, 12900K, Hynix Kingston Fury 32gb 6000 cl40 kit, Unify-X bios A. 31.U2, A.42

1 stick works fine at any speed up to 6800CL30 in dimm A

Same stick in dimm B works fine at same speeds, except task manager show 1 of 3 ( !!! not a typo ) slots populated

2 sticks of Kingston Fury, at any speed crash system in matter of seconds, random bluescreen errors, cold reboots etc

Tried different approach - mixed ram sticks.

One 16 Gb Hynix stick mixed with one 32 Gb Micron stick - works perfect.

What am I missing ? Any ideas ? Dead motherboard or cpu ?


----------



## SoldierRBT

sugi0lover said:


> You just need to open MT.cfg with notepad and change Cycles=3 to 10.


Thank you. I get 1 hour 8 min with 7000 1T e-cores on
Time(%)= 100
Cycles= 10









EDIT: 7100 1T 1:07


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Nizzen said:


> Pleace tell us more  I don't understand what you are trying to say.
> 
> (we don't need trolls here on this forums)





Nizzen said:


> A banned user, that are trying to take revenge of the nerds?



The fact that the memory profiles compared to others are lacking is the big one IMO. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion that differs from others. Personally I would catch up with competitors if I was them like the Dark for example.

More in depth information: Give faster memory profiles preloaded to try like EVGA does.

Ignoring comments meant to troll me which, I don't even understand honestly? I like conversations let's have one please, like adults. 

You wouldn't like better memory profiles preloaded like the Dark?
I haven't seen any comments about preloaded memory profiles on the Unity, does it have preloads as well?


----------



## db000

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> The fact that the memory profiles compared to others are lacking is the big one IMO. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion that differs from others. Personally I would catch up with competitors if I was them like the Dark for example.
> 
> More in depth information: Give faster memory profiles preloaded to try like EVGA does.
> 
> Ignoring comments meant to troll me which, I don't even understand honestly? I like conversations let's have one please, like adults.
> 
> You wouldn't like better memory profiles preloaded like the Dark?
> I haven't seen any comments about preloaded memory profiles on the Unity, does it have preloads as well?


Unify-X have three pre-loaded "benchmark" profiles, 6600CL30-2T 6666CL30-1T and 7000CL30-2T.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

db000 said:


> Unify-X have three pre-loaded "benchmark" profiles, 6600CL30-2T 6666CL30-1T and 7000CL30-2T.




Thank you db. So, unity has better preloads as well, like the dark which is what I was getting at. Give better preloads for memory.


----------



## jomama22

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Thank you db. So, unity has better preloads as well, like the dark which is what I was getting at. Give better preloads for memory.


Meh, tbf, it doesn't really make too much sense to start from a preload. Much easier to see what others are able to do and start with that. At this point, there is enough data here and other places to get a good baseline started.


----------



## z390e

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> You wouldn't like better memory profiles preloaded like the Dark?


Seems like just more versions of XMP tbh.

Do you use the preloaded OC profiles for CPU's?


----------



## satinghostrider

chibi said:


> My GS 6400c32 kit arrived today. Not much better than my Fury Beast 6000 kit in my opinion.
> 
> Fury 6000 - max stable 6600c30
> GSKILL 6400 - can post 6800c30 but not stable
> 
> I decided for an extra $584 CAD, it's not worth chasing 200 MHz
> 
> In the end, I was able to get my Fury 6000 kit to stabilize 15,000% at 6600/c30. I will return the GSKILL kit. My KS is low bin, I tested with my friend's asus board and it was SP87 lol.
> 
> View attachment 2564047


Fury kits highly dependent on bin. Mine does 6800c32 at 1.5V fully stable and can boot 7400 (not stable). Gskills also runs noticeably hotter unless you tear down the heatsink. Good call on keeping the Fury kit. Not worth it for just a few more hundred MHz.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

jomama22 said:


> Meh, tbf, it doesn't really make too much sense to start from a preload. Much easier to see what others are able to do and start with that. At this point, there is enough data here and other places to get a good baseline started.


Tell that to the companies doing better with sales and not having as many RMAs / full refunds and not having as many angry customers on this forum posting about their issues. That will also eventually lead to less sales and eventually bankruptcy as a company.

I like my business approach better. I think MSI and EVGA does as well based on what I've seen so far.

I mean seriously think about what you're saying for a second, what kind of business approach is meh, who cares what the competitors are doing successfully?


----------



## chentj1988

Found this on internet. Looks good, maybe not 100% correct but I found it useful to me.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

chentj1988 said:


> Found this on internet. Looks good, maybe not 100% correct but I found it useful to me.



Nice find. Thank you. I like open communication and learning. This type of post will make this community thrive, not bashing people and their obviously correct but inconvenient to your failing horrible business approach opinions.

Saved


----------



## Acegr

Seems kinda crazy to me how I managed from a kit of 5600 to reach stable 6400. I'll try for 6600 too although I dont want to raise volt from 1.41v much.

Kingston Fury Beast 2x16GB 5600 Kit at 6400 1.41V VDD,VDDQ, 1.35V VDD2, 0.95V SA
12700k stock
MSI z690 Tomahawk wifi















Vld said:


> Ran in to weird issue with ddr5, 12900K, Hynix Kingston Fury 32gb 6000 cl40 kit, Unify-X bios A. 31.U2, A.42
> 
> 1 stick works fine at any speed up to 6800CL30 in dimm A
> 
> Same stick in dimm B works fine at same speeds, except task manager show 1 of 3 ( !!! not a typo ) slots populated
> 
> 2 sticks of Kingston Fury, at any speed crash system in matter of seconds, random bluescreen errors, cold reboots etc
> 
> Tried different approach - mixed ram sticks.
> 
> One 16 Gb Hynix stick mixed with one 32 Gb Micron stick - works perfect.
> 
> What am I missing ? Any ideas ? Dead motherboard or cpu ?


Can you do me a favor? Put your dims to stock, auto volts, no xmp, completely stock. Enter windows and open cpuz, go to SPD tab. Check your dims from there, top right SPD.ext, it should be showing XMP 3.0, do both of them show this? show me a picture of both of your dims from cpuz spd tab.


----------



## bigfootnz

I'm not able to stabilise either 6933 or 7000Mhz. Not sure if it is mobo or RAM. But at this stage not sure that it is worth more time to find correct combination of voltages.

On other hand I'm able to stabilise 6800C30 which I was not able with bios A42. I done with VDD/VDDQ 1.5v, VDDQ TX 1.4, VCCSA 1.15v, VDD2 1.4v. This still have room for voltage adjustment
or even some more tweaking with timings.


----------



## Raphie

Kingston or G-skill? Very nice result!


----------



## bigfootnz

Kingston, thanks.


----------



## Alhen

Please tell me, I returned my Apex, I bought Unify-x. I'm going to order a memory kit, it's worth stopping at:
G.SKILL F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS or F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK
Available 12900KF(SP106)


----------



## Raphie

Haven’t seen them at work yet. Are they already available?


----------



## ChaosAD

Using tREFI at 65555 is karhu/tm5 stable but CTD while gaming. If I lower to 35555 everything is fine. How can I stabilize higher tREFI? Max temps for dimms are below 50c under stress, more like 40c while gaming, so I don't think that's the issue.


----------



## bigfootnz

ChaosAD said:


> Using tREFI at 65555 is karhu/tm5 stable but CTD while gaming. If I lower to 35555 everything is fine. How can I stabilize higher tREFI? Max temps for dimms are below 50c under stress, more like 40c while gaming, so I don't think that's the issue.


Either drop temperature or increase voltage


----------



## Raphie

That’s why I like 32768, it increases the bandwidth, going higher brings very little at a high voltage/heat/stability tax.
I mean your 30/40/40 is great @ 1.5v But my 32/40/40 is nearly as fast @ 1.47v
the 4secs in Y-cruncher is your KS (I want one too  )


----------



## bigfootnz

Yes, we all have to put own limits which make us comfortable/safe. Also, you are right your score is fast as mine in real life usage. 
We are here on OC.net and we all try to push our hardware as much as we can, someone less, someone more, and then there is few of them who goes as much as they can.
This KS is fast like K/KF only runs cooler in benches. In real life difference is so small as most of the games do not push cpu too much.


----------



## jomama22

chentj1988 said:


> Found this on internet. Looks good, maybe not 100% correct but I found it useful to me.


This really doesn't apply much to ddr5 from my experience. It has been around for a while for use with Ryzen. Even then though, it's kinda a crap shoot (when I was tuning 5000 series).


----------



## jomama22

Raphie said:


> That’s why I like 32768, it increases the bandwidth, going higher brings very little at a high voltage/heat/stability tax.
> I mean your 30/40/40 is great @ 1.5v But my 32/40/40 is nearly as fast @ 1.47v
> the 4secs in Y-cruncher is your KS (I want one too  )


Really not sure what it matters at all about someone using 1.5v vs 1.47v. You Also completely ignore the fact that different dimms require different voltages. @SoldierRBT can set and stabilize the literal exact same timings and frequency, using the same motherboard I am, while he needs 1.6v/1.5v vdd/vddq while I need 1.59v/1.55v vdd/vddq. Also, 99% of the bandwidth you are going to get is from the frequency set for any CL below 32 and any decent secondaries, so you can just go ahead a write off trying to compare bandwidth the way you are if you are at the same frequency. 

Like no offense, I'm glad you get so excited about your kinda lower voltages and such, but you are constantly telling others that yours is essentially better because of it, which is just non-sense. You could go down to cl 34, lower voltage by like .03v and say the same thing you already are. 

Finally, there is an edit button. There is no need to post 5 consecutive posts in a row over the span of 30 minutes with every small change or realization you have.


----------



## Raphie

It doesn't matter in the end, However it's good understanding what people are after:

lowest possible value in BIOS
fastest possible AIDA / Y-cruncher results
highest possible benchmark v/s powerconsumption / heat result

Everyone is here for a different game and the more we share the more we learn.


----------



## Raphie

Sorry @jomama22 new post again > 6933 1.5v


----------



## jomama22

Raphie said:


> It doesn't matter in the end, However it's good understanding what people are after:
> 
> lowest possible value in BIOS
> fastest possible AIDA / Y-cruncher results
> highest possible benchmark v/s powerconsumption / heat result
> 
> Everyone is here for a different game and the more we share the more we learn.


Again, didn't say anything against that. It's the fact that you reply to other people setup implying yours is better because it is using lower voltage.



Raphie said:


> Sorry @jomama22 new post again > 6933 1.5v
> 
> View attachment 2564285
> View attachment 2564286
> 
> View attachment 2564284


What's your point exactly? Also, we all know that's not stable for you so...

Want me to post something useless like 7000c32 2T @ 1.45v without actually stabilizing it?


----------



## Raphie

Your conclusion is that it's better, I'm not saying anything, as mentioned before, different people are after different things. *No catfights pls*. There is a good learning vibe here where we all are moving from 6000 to 7000 and beyond, with new developments and insights. I'm merely sharing my findings and if I help 2 or 3 people stuck on a plateau, while at it, that's good enough for me.
My config is mediocre at best, but still I'm making progress putting in the hours and sharing my findings. All relevant to you? probably not.


----------



## Acegr

Raphie said:


> Your conclusion is that it's better, I'm not saying anything, as mentioned before, different people are after different things. *No catfights pls*. There is a good learning vibe here where we all are moving from 6000 to 7000 and beyond, with new developments and insights. I'm merely sharing my findings and if I help 2 or 3 people stuck on a plateau, while at it, that's good enough for me.
> My config is mediocre at best, but still I'm making progress putting in the hours and sharing my findings. All relevant to you? probably not.


mediocre my ass, your mobo, cpu and ram cost 1500e, your other parts are lacking but those 3 aren't mediocre but top of the line.. 12900ks isn't meant for casual users like us.


----------



## Raphie

Have ‘t got a KS yet, very tempting yes! But currently still a K guy 
and yes Unify-X is nice, but EVGA DK doing 7K at 1T with 2 fingers up it’s nose is a different league all together.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Back on subject ignoring trolling from usual guilty parties on here...

This is what I have setup for my daily stable memory overclock on my Apex.











Does anyone have knowledge on how to get my tRFCpb settings to go below 454? I tried forcing that setting to go lower and it ignores me. Probably something silly I'm doing wrong I'm sure.


----------



## Raphie

Can someone point me to a noob tutorial for 12900k OCíng?
is it BCLK from 100 > 10x?
Or MP from 49 > 50 >51 >52?
All cores? per core?
what about ecores?
what's the ring everybody talks about?

I'm totally blank on recent OC'ing and would appreciate a simple 12900K primer to get me going.


----------



## Afferin

Raphie said:


> Can someone point me to a noob tutorial for 12900k OCíng?
> is it BCLK from 100 > 10x?
> Or MP from 49 > 50 >51 >52?
> All cores? per core?
> what about ecores?
> what's the ring everybody talks about?
> 
> I'm totally blank on recent OC'ing and would appreciate a simple 12900K primer to get me going.


Most people I've talked to are really oldschool and still do all-core OCs with static voltage. I went a different route and read this guide which was pretty heavy to take in but got me some pretty good results. I recommend checking it out!


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

How do these numbers look? Anybody got any improvements or suggestions? Trying to remain daily stable.


----------



## Acegr

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> How do these numbers look? Anybody got any improvements or suggestions? Trying to remain daily stable.


what the... go run an aida64 bench and y cruncher 😂


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

This would de


Acegr said:


> what the... go run an aida64 bench and y cruncher 😂


This would definitely pass both of those. However I would need to change to a different bios for one that has the microcode for AVX512 support to have a decent score.


----------



## jomama22

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> This would de
> 
> This would definitely pass both of those. However I would need to change to a different bios for one that has the microcode for AVX512 support to have a decent score.


According to lummi, all dark bios' have avx512 enabled, just need to set a negative offset (like -1) in the avx512 area in bios (main OC screen). Whether this is true or not I have no idea.

Gave up the ghost on the KS?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

jomama22 said:


> According to lummi, all dark bios' have avx512 enabled, just need to set a negative offset (like -1) in the avx512 area in bios (main OC screen). Whether this is true or not I have no idea.
> 
> Gave up the ghost on the KS?


No i still have my KS. Just trying to maximize this turd of a 12900K for kicks and giggles. And i have a -1 AVX512 offset set in bios. You have to, otherwise itll set the default offset which is like -5 or something like that. 1.09 will not show AVX 512 support no matter what. Dropping back to 1.07 works great.


----------



## z390e

Raphie said:


> Can someone point me to a noob tutorial for 12900k OCíng?
> is it BCLK from 100 > 10x?
> Or MP from 49 > 50 >51 >52?
> All cores? per core?
> what about ecores?
> what's the ring everybody talks about?
> 
> I'm totally blank on recent OC'ing and would appreciate a simple 12900K primer to get me going.


as @Afferin linked the ADL thread has a lot of gold in it as does This thread that is current and active

The answer is it depends what you want to do with the machine.

If you want top gaming performance your goal is the highest possible core ratio with the lowest stable vcore and the best tuned RAM possible. Some will argue that for some games, disabling e-cores on ADL will also improve performance, but my belief is it is game specific.

If you want to benchmark and get top scores, then you want different things


----------



## bigfootnz

z390e said:


> as @Afferin linked the ADL thread has a lot of gold in it as does This thread that is current and active
> 
> The answer is it depends what you want to do with the machine.
> 
> If you want top gaming performance your goal is the highest possible core ratio with the lowest stable vcore and the best tuned RAM possible. Some will argue that for some games, disabling p-cores on ADL will also improve performance, but my belief is it is game specific.
> 
> If you want to benchmark and get top scores, then you want different things


I assume you meant disabling e-core?


----------



## sugi0lover

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Back on subject ignoring trolling from usual guilty parties on here...
> 
> This is what I have setup for my daily stable memory overclock on my Apex.
> 
> View attachment 2564307
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have knowledge on how to get my tRFCpb settings to go below 454? I tried forcing that setting to go lower and it ignores me. Probably something silly I'm doing wrong I'm sure.


Did you put tRFCpb value at this red box?


Spoiler: Bios


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

sugi0lover said:


> Did you put tRFCpb value at this red box?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564335



I believe so. I'll try again in the morning and report back. Thank you sugi.


----------



## sugi0lover

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I believe so. I'll try again in the morning and report back. Thank you sugi.


You can also check your tRFCpb value here. Good luck on your OC journey!


----------



## tubs2x4

Wonder how long till memory comes on motherboards like it does on video cards? You buy the board with the amount ram you want.


----------



## jeiselramos

Kingston 6000C40 almost maxed out on the latest Bios
6600 28-38-38-28 2T
1.3 CPU VDDQ/VDD2
1.6 VDD 1.5 VDDQ
1.0 SA

Still slower in tm5 than my 6400C28 1T


----------



## sugi0lover

I haven't tried Ram OC for a while since I couldn't do 7400 CL30 atm.
Today, I had some fun with bclk oc and got stable with Karhu 10000%.
I don't use e-cores for my gaming usage, so e cores off. E cores on/off doesn't affect my ram stability at all.
Hwinfo64 ran only with Cinebench to check voltages, wattage and temp.

[System Setup]
○ CPU : 12900K Direct Die (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E off , Cache 5.3G)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7333Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex
○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.341v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.332v / SA 1.120v / VPP 1.905v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)










[Edit : Aida64 Bench = bclk oc got better performance than it actually is]


----------



## Liquid4rt

Is this normal for hwinfo to read like this on the memory? I have a ASrock Z690 PG ITX TB4 motherboard, i've been playing about with overclocking memory after achieving a stable cpu overclock but i've just noticed that on Dimm 0 all the voltages read 1.8v? Where as the voltages on Dimm 2 read correctly at what i have set manually. I've done all my stress testing at xmp 3.0 but cranked up the voltage VDD and VDDQ on the PMIC to 1.28v while increasing the speed from 5600mhz to 6000mhz and its stable, no crashes.

Memory is Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5600mhz 32gb (2x16gb) Samsung kit.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

sugi0lover said:


> You can also check your tRFCpb value here. Good luck on your OC journey!
> View attachment 2564349



That was it. I put it in the field right above the one you highlighted instead like a dork. Thank you again sugi.

On a side note it did not like 220 but, 320 seems to be okay so far.


----------



## centvalny

sugi0lover said:


> I haven't tried Ram OC for a while since I couldn't do 7400 CL30 atm.
> Today, I had some fun with bclk oc and got stable with Karhu 10000%.
> I don't use e-cores for my gaming usage, so e cores off. E cores on/off doesn't affect my ram stability at all.
> Hwinfo64 ran only with Cinebench to check voltages, wattage and temp.
> 
> [System Setup]
> ○ CPU : 12900K Direct Die (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E off , Cache 5.3G)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7333Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.341v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.332v / SA 1.120v / VPP 1.905v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> 
> View attachment 2564380


Awesome settings. Tested your settings with 12600k and corsair6200 @ 7200, so far so good.


----------



## 7empe

To those who have issues with correct memory training (impedance/signal equalization especially) due to imperfect terminations of the ddr channel stub on the motherboard. Disabling RxDfe (Rx Decision Feedback Equalizers) may help at the higher frequencies. In my case it is much easier to reach stability in y-crucher and Linpack Extreme without RxDfe at and above 6600 CL30.

It's not a training algorithm but a mechanics that does the signal's equalization in the real time by probing the logical 0-1-0 signal state transition at some steps (depends on the controller's implementation) to detect remnants of such transition that may interfere with another logical 1 appearing on the bus and prepare for that to reduce such interference. On the Asus motherboard it is set to Auto and I have no idea what's the default (enabled or disabled) used here and does it switch at some point, depending on the frequency. However I can clearly say that impedance/signal training quality is noticeable better at 6600+ with RxDfe = disabled. Below that frequency I did not notice any difference.

Either way, give it a try.


----------



## tubs2x4

Liquid4rt said:


> Is this normal for hwinfo to read like this on the memory? I have a ASrock Z690 PG ITX TB4 motherboard, i've been playing about with overclocking memory after achieving a stable cpu overclock but i've just noticed that on Dimm 0 all the voltages read 1.8v? Where as the voltages on Dimm 2 read correctly at what i have set manually. I've done all my stress testing at xmp 3.0 but cranked up the voltage VDD and VDDQ on the PMIC to 1.28v while increasing the speed from 5600mhz to 6000mhz and its stable, no crashes.
> 
> Memory is Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5600mhz 32gb (2x16gb) Samsung kit.
> 
> View attachment 2564399


Your SA voltage seems excessive at 1.625. That might be bad for the cpu at that voltage.


----------



## Liquid4rt

tubs2x4 said:


> Your SA voltage seems excessive at 1.625. That might be bad for the cpu at that voltage.


Whats the ideal voltage? Actually on closer inspection, i have no control over this in the bios! In the FIVR settings, there is System Agent voltage which i can set to override and enter my own value but this only changes the SA VID and not the VCCSA voltage.

My settings in the bios are as shown:

Everything below this is PMIC related.









FIVR related settings.


----------



## jollib

Where can I get this bios? (Nvm found it)



sugi0lover said:


> Unify X ram OC result which was not stable on previous bios but stable on A.62U2 (it's not my oc)
> 7000 32-42-42-30-340-2T on air
> 
> CPU SA : 1.000v
> CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX) : 1.400v
> CPU VDD2 : 1.360v
> DRAM VDD : 1.470v
> DRAM VDDQ : 1.470v
> DRAM VPP : 1.800v
> 
> View attachment 2564076
> 
> View attachment 2564077
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Bios Setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564111
> View attachment 2564112
> View attachment 2564113
> View attachment 2564114
> View attachment 2564115
> View attachment 2564116
> View attachment 2564117
> View attachment 2564118
> View attachment 2564119
> View attachment 2564120
> View attachment 2564121


----------



## db000

Liquid4rt said:


> Whats the ideal voltage? It's left on auto at the moment, i haven't touched it.
> 
> Edit: Do you mean the VCCSA voltage? I can't seem to find the one you're talking about, the vccsa is the closest voltage to the one you mentioned.


Yes, VCCSA. It could be bugged in HWinfo. Check in bios, try lowering it. ie. -> 1.35v -> 1.25v etc. Generally below 1.45 is good.


----------



## db000

jollib said:


> Where can I get this bios?








Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive







drive.google.com


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## Liquid4rt

db000 said:


> Yes, VCCSA. It could be bugged in HWinfo. Check in bios, try lowering it. ie. -> 1.35v -> 1.25v etc. Generally below 1.45 is good.


I've updated my post at the top, i have no way of changing it unfortunately in the bios! I've just had an extensive look (screenshots at the top) and there's nothing. The FIVR settings only change the SA VID voltage not the VCCSA voltage. I have a feeling its bugged, the voltage never changes, its stuck at 1.648v, surely it should fluctuate a little?


----------



## Liquid4rt

I've just checked in the bios of the actual VCCSA voltage and it does indeed say 1.648v...

I've also noticed now that my SA VID is running at 0.941v! surely thats too low as well?


----------



## db000

Liquid4rt said:


> I've just checked in the bios of the actual VCCSA voltage and it does indeed say 1.648v...
> 
> I've also noticed now that my SA VID is running at 0.941v! surely thats too low as well?


Change it from Adaptive to Manual if you wanna set it yourself.
0.95 is Default


----------



## Liquid4rt

db000 said:


> Change it from Adaptive to Manual if you wanna set it yourself.
> 0.95 is Default


Ah okay so at least thats right! I've no stability issues yet so do i really need to change it? I've been using XMP timings but upping the speed and voltage to 6200mhz and 1.35v now. Is it advised to up the SA VID to 1.1/1.2v for any particular reason?


----------



## Nelfhunt

Liquid4rt said:


> Ah okay so at least thats right! I've no stability issues yet so do i really need to change it? I've been using XMP timings but upping the speed and voltage to 6200mhz and 1.35v now. Is it advised to up the SA VID to 1.1/1.2v for any particular reason?


Don´t do anything right now, you better wait for someone who is experienced about Asrock BIOS. CPU SA and VCCSA are different things! Don´t mess it up.


----------



## Liquid4rt

Nelfhunt said:


> Don´t do anything right now, you better wait for someone who is experienced about Asrock BIOS. CPU SA and VCCSA are different things! Don´t mess it up.


Roger that, will just leave it as it is for now then and not mess with the CPU SA VID voltages. I can't even change the VCCSA voltage, i've just learnt that ASrock has that locked down, there's no control over it.


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## db000

Nelfhunt said:


> Don´t do anything right now, you better wait for someone who is experienced about Asrock BIOS. CPU SA and VCCSA are different things! Don´t mess it up.


Like.. What? (are you talking about?)
It clearly states System Agent. Its the same thing. 

Apex board have been very picky with SA voltage, my Unify-X isn't. You can use Auto, but if that Voltage of 1.65v SA is true, you should try lowering it. If not, you are fine.


----------



## tubs2x4

Liquid4rt said:


> Roger that, will just leave it as it is for now then and not mess with the CPU SA VID voltages. I can't even change the VCCSA voltage, i've just learnt that ASrock has that locked down, there's no control over it.


yes i meant VCCSA.... not SA VID...all these dam acronyms ha


----------



## 7empe

The VCCSA is CPU sample specific. To get the default value for your CPU you need to set this voltage to the “offset” mode and use an “auto” value for the offset. In this case the CPU-programmed default SA voltage will be used. Range of the default SA voltage at least for 12900k/kf/ks is 940 mV to 1020 mV as far as I can tell based on the cpus I was able to check.

VCCSA also uses VID table to scale. Thus SA VID is the voltage CPU asks the VRM and VCCSA is the voltage it gets (similarlly to Vcore and CPU VID).


----------



## Liquid4rt

db000 said:


> Like.. What? (are you talking about?)
> It clearly states System Agent. Its the same thing.
> 
> Apex board have been very picky with SA voltage, my Unify-X isn't. You can use Auto, but if that Voltage of 1.65v SA is true, you should try lowering it. If not, you are fine.


I had a quick play with the SA voltage last night, just trying a variation from 1.1 to 1.2v and tbh im not sure what its actually doing in terms of RAM stability. I did a quick 100% test last night on HCI Memtest and got 1 error through the duration so something needs adjusting, this was at 1.2v. 

I've checked with other people who have my board ASrock Phantom Gaming ITX TB4 and they can confirm the same VCCSA voltage with no control over it. I've sent ASrock a support ticket to see what they say about it.


----------



## Liquid4rt

tubs2x4 said:


> yes i meant VCCSA.... not SA VID...all these dam acronyms ha


Yeah im the same, there's too many and its very confusing lol.



7empe said:


> The VCCSA is CPU sample specific. To get the default value for your CPU you need to set this voltage to the “offset” mode and use an “auto” value for the offset. In this case the CPU-programmed default SA voltage will be used. Range of the default SA voltage at least for 12900k/kf/ks is 940 mV to 1020 mV as far as I can tell based on the cpus I was able to check.
> 
> VCCSA also uses VID table to scale. Thus SA VID is the voltage CPU asks the VRM and VCCSA is the voltage it gets (similarlly to Vcore and CPU VID).


I can confirm the default for my 12700k is 0.941v for its CPU SA VID. I'm still testing this to see what affects it has on RAM stability. 

If i can pass a 4 hour stability test through Aida64 memory stability test but get 1 or 2 errors through a HCI Memtest (100% short test), would adjusting the SA VID help or it is more of a timing issue? As i dont think i need to increase my VDD and VDDQ since the system is stable.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

7empe said:


> The VCCSA is CPU sample specific. To get the default value for your CPU you need to set this voltage to the “offset” mode and use an “auto” value for the offset. In this case the CPU-programmed default SA voltage will be used. Range of the default SA voltage at least for 12900k/kf/ks is 940 mV to 1020 mV as far as I can tell based on the cpus I was able to check.
> 
> VCCSA also uses VID table to scale. Thus SA VID is the voltage CPU asks the VRM and VCCSA is the voltage it gets (similarlly to Vcore and CPU VID).


Mine does .90 just saying.


----------



## db000

Liquid4rt said:


> Yeah im the same, there's too many and its very confusing lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I can confirm the default for my 12700k is 0.941v for its CPU SA VID. I'm still testing this to see what affects it has on RAM stability.
> 
> If i can pass a 4 hour stability test through Aida64 memory stability test but get 1 or 2 errors through a HCI Memtest (100% short test), would adjusting the SA VID help or it is more of a timing issue? As i dont think i need to increase my VDD and VDDQ since the system is stable.


We all have different standards in definition of "stable", really depends on how much load you put on it, light loads might not find the errors. But most of us agree on passing TM5 and/or Karhu 10000% is stable. If you get Errors in memtest 100% short, I wouldn't say its stable. Do Karhu 10000% w/ no errors and/or TM5 (ie. Extreme1 anta777) 3 cycles. You also have Y-Cruncher 2.5b (download BenchMate) for that, really heavy on both the CPU and RAM.

On the topic of SA, if you are not on 1.65v you are good! Then just need to figure out why HWInfo reports that, a bug.


----------



## Liquid4rt

db000 said:


> We all have different standards in definition of "stable", really depends on how much load you put on it, light loads might not find the errors. But most of us agree on passing TM5 and/or Karhu 10000% is stable. If you get Errors in memtest 100% short, I wouldn't say its stable. Do Karhu 10000% w/ no errors and/or TM5 (ie. Extreme1 anta777) 3 cycles. You also have Y-Cruncher 2.5b (download BenchMate) for that, really heavy on both the CPU and RAM.
> 
> On the topic of SA, if you are not on 1.65v you are good! Then just need to figure out why HWInfo reports that, a bug.


Unfortunately the 1.65v is not a bug, in the bios this number reads the same so i've decided to return the board instead and get the ASUS Z690 ROG Strix ITX motherboard instead. 

Getting no response from ASrock either so its very frustrating.


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## db000

Liquid4rt said:


> Unfortunately the 1.65v is not a bug, in the bios this number reads the same so i've decided to return the board instead and get the ASUS Z690 ROG Strix ITX motherboard instead.
> 
> Getting no response from ASrock either so its very frustrating.


Consider getting the MSI Z690I Unify board, I've seen good results from users here with that board. Maybe the Strix ITX is equally good.

Good luck! hope to hear more from you regardless of new board brand


----------



## Liquid4rt

So a little update for anyone who has this board, please READ:

ASrock got my support ticket and got in contact with their technicians in Taiwan about the high voltage. Shortly after a new bios has been released, the 9.01 bios has been replaced by 10.01 bios which i can't test right now as im work but i believe this bios will fix the VCCSA voltage. If you have this board, i would either replace it with something else or try this bios now and see if it defaults the VCCSA to a lower value.

EDIT: BIOS DOES NOT FIX THE ISSUE! TECH SUPPORT HAS TRIED THIS BIOS AND CONFIRMED IT DOES NOT LOWER THE VOLTAGE!


----------



## iambic

i9 12900K + MSI Z690i Unify 
Kingston 6000C40 @6800 30-39-39-28 2T on air

CPU SA : 0.950v
CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX) : 1.400v
CPU VDD2 : 1.350v
DRAM VDD : 1.530v
DRAM VDDQ : 1.530v
DRAM VPP : 1.800v


----------



## Liquid4rt

Update:

Tech support from ASrock has got back to me and confirmed the new bios release has not fixed the issue with the high VCCSA voltage. They are working on it and will give an update soon.


----------



## Raphie

iambic said:


> i9 12900K + MSI Z690i Unify
> Kingston 6000C40 @6800 30-39-39-28 2T on air
> 
> CPU SA : 0.950v
> CPU VDDQ (VDDQ TX) : 1.400v
> CPU VDD2 : 1.350v
> DRAM VDD : 1.530v
> DRAM VDDQ : 1.530v
> DRAM VPP : 1.800v
> 
> View attachment 2564470
> View attachment 2564471


Beautiful! I BSOD into windows with these settings, with my G-Skill 6400/32 and Unify-X
Crazy that you pay 2x for G-Skill and have a lousier bin than Kingston. Does it hold with Karhu and Y-cruncher as well?
FURY really seems to be the golden ticket here.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Beautiful! I BSOD into windows with these settings, with my G-Skill 6400/32 and Unify-X
> Crazy that you pay 2x for G-Skill and have a lousier bin than Kingston. Does it hold with Karhu and Y-cruncher as well?
> FURY really seems to be the golden ticket here.


Ot your combo just works differently
Even if i change from my Kingston to my Teamgroup I've different vdd2/vddq/ to be stable at the same settings


----------



## matique

Raphie said:


> Beautiful! I BSOD into windows with these settings, with my G-Skill 6400/32 and Unify-X
> Crazy that you pay 2x for G-Skill and have a lousier bin than Kingston. Does it hold with Karhu and Y-cruncher as well?
> FURY really seems to be the golden ticket here.


Board factors into it. Msi unify itx is a strong ADL board. I'm running one too with the same sticks, 7000c30


----------



## Raphie

Crazy!


----------



## sugi0lover

7empe said:


> To those who have issues with correct memory training (impedance/signal equalization especially) due to imperfect terminations of the ddr channel stub on the motherboard. Disabling RxDfe (Rx Decision Feedback Equalizers) may help at the higher frequencies. In my case it is much easier to reach stability in y-crucher and Linpack Extreme without RxDfe at and above 6600 CL30.
> 
> It's not a training algorithm but a mechanics that does the signal's equalization in the real time by probing the logical 0-1-0 signal state transition at some steps (depends on the controller's implementation) to detect remnants of such transition that may interfere with another logical 1 appearing on the bus and prepare for that to reduce such interference. On the Asus motherboard it is set to Auto and I have no idea what's the default (enabled or disabled) used here and does it switch at some point, depending on the frequency. However I can clearly say that impedance/signal training quality is noticeable better at 6600+ with RxDfe = disabled. Below that frequency I did not notice any difference.
> 
> Either way, give it a try.


Wow. My friend couldn't stabilize the setup below, but Disabling RxDfe makes it stable for him. Great info.



Spoiler: Asus Bios (my bios)















His OC setup and result!

12900k (a.i oc + 2boost llc7) + z690 Hero (Bios1505)
Gskill 6600cl34(16*2) : 6800cl30 OC (30-40-40-30 320 2t)
vdd/vddq/vddq tx = 1.55/1.52/1.52v , sa=1.10v, mc=1.385v, vpp=1.90v


----------



## Raphie

Very nice! Curious if I can find the same setting on the unify-x somewhere, I want 6800 cl30 stable so bad 
when I bought the unify-x gskill combo, I really hoped for 6800 1T c32, but since that is still out of reach for me cl30 6800 is my second best target. Hopefully this setting helps.


----------



## sugi0lover

Raphie said:


> Very nice! Curious if I can find the same setting on the unify-x somewhere, I want 6800 cl30 stable so bad
> when I bought the unify-x gskill combo, I really hoped for 6800 1T c32, but since that is still out of reach for me cl30 6800 is my second best target. Hopefully this setting helps.


[Edit] Here it is!


Spoiler: MSI Bios


----------



## 7empe

sugi0lover said:


> I asked unify x user if it has the same option.
> The below looks similar but it requires values from 0 to 15 not enabled/disabled, so I guess it's differnet one.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: MSI Bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564533


It looks like on Unify-X the range represents configurable DFE tap length. The 4-bit length is meant to be used with DDR5 (15 decimal). So, I guess 0 means disabled (0-tap length). The pros of the Unify's controller approach is exposing the bit mask to the user (not only off/on as it is on Apex).

If you're on Unify, it's also worth trying the 7-15 range for DFE. Depending on a level of the signal's distortion due to reflections it may be beneficial to verify if the higher number of signal probes can help with better equalization. Higher the signal's frequency, the more benefit from the higher number of probes for a decission correction algorithm. If frequency exceeds the correct probing window then disabling it completely may be the best option.


----------



## sugi0lover

7empe said:


> It looks like on Unify-X the range represents configurable DFE tap length. The 4-bit length is meant to be used with DDR5 (15 decimal). So, I guess 0 means disabled (0-tap length). The pros of the Unify's controller approach is exposing the bit mask to the user (not only off/on as it is on Apex).


My friend found it and I edited my post


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

7empe said:


> It looks like on Unify-X the range represents configurable DFE tap length. The 4-bit length is meant to be used with DDR5 (15 decimal). So, I guess 0 means disabled (0-tap length). The pros of the Unify's controller approach is exposing the bit mask to the user (not only off/on as it is on Apex).



What does it even do? Serious question. If it's not beneficial and can be disabled to make things more stable at even higher speeds I'll disable it.


----------



## 7empe

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> What does it even do? Serious question. If it's not beneficial and can be disabled to make things more stable at even higher speeds I'll disable it.


See my edited post. Just added more info to be more specific. Hope it helps.


----------



## 7empe

sugi0lover said:


> My friend found it and I edited my post


Yes, I know - I'm just interpreting your friend's finding  I don't have Unify board, so sadly I can't play with DFE on that board by myself.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

7empe said:


> See my edited post previously. Just added more info to be more specific. Hope it helps.


Hmm, interesting. Then does that mean you've reached the limit of the motherboard at that point or the memory? We all know at this point that these motherboards have limits depending on trace qualities / components so..


----------



## DanGleeballs

I'll test this when I get home but I think for me on Unify-X it's set at 15 for lower clocks then goes to 0 after 6600 when left on auto

EDIT. @7empe Just tested this from 6200 to 6666 with all other settings the same and always 15 for Rx Equalization on latest A62U2 BIOS. So I tried 0 on 6666 and it doesn't train, gets stuck and ends with me clearing CMOS. I won't touch it again 😅
I have seen it when on auto to either 0 or 15 will check my 1T profiles on A21 bios maybe.


----------



## 7empe

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Hmm, interesting. Then does that mean you've reached the limit of the motherboard at that point or the memory? We all know at this point that these motherboards have limits depending on trace qualities / components so..


It is all about the shape of the DDR signal - interferences and reflections. It also depends what's the memory topology, board design and board sample itself (quality variation). If we're going to use the "limit" category of anything I would say it's a board limit rather than DRAM limit, because distortions are caused by stubs on the signal's path with slightly different impedance and every termination point on such path (like on the memory and controller). Therefore on the memory-side of things board is adjusting resistors known as ODT to compensate these impedance variations and reduce reflections.

The nearest dimm slot on the motherboard to the memory controller (thus cpu) has higher amount of the distortions due to the shorter channel path vs signal's energy. Therefore with 2 dimm setup on the 4-dimm boards, where 2 first slots are channel A and 2 last slots are channel B (A0,A1,B0,B1) it is recommended to populate A1 and B1 - to keep the longer paths in use.

Equalizations of different sort are meant to help to keep the signal's integrity. The controller's I/O transceiver implements these mechanics. Rx DFE works fine up to the designed and advertised DDR frequency. Above it, the Rx DFE may help if configured properly or may introduce wrong decissions due to not enough data points. It depends on the controller's implementation. If Rx DFE cannot help anymore, it's worth to disable it.

On asus board I have no idea what "enabled" means in respect to DFE configuration. On the Unify-X the specified range makes more sense.

EDIT: I think some of you had much worse results on Apex while testing A0 vs B0 at the highest possible frequency. Maybe it is worth to test this again taking into account the above? Just saying.


----------



## 7empe

DanGleeballs said:


> I'll test this when I get home but I think for me on Unify-X it's set at 15 for lower clocks then goes to 0 after 6600 when left on auto


Makes completely sense. Lucky those who have hint on the values used by the bios. Thanks asus.


----------



## sugi0lover

Deleted


----------



## DanGleeballs

7empe said:


> It is all about the shape of the DDR signal - interferences and reflections. It also depends what's the memory topology, board design and board sample itself (quality variation). If we're going to use the "limit" category of anything I would say it's a board limit rather than DRAM limit, because distortions are caused by stubs on the signal's path with slightly different impedance and every termination point on such path (like on the memory and controller). Therefore on the memory-side of things board is adjusting resistors known as ODT to compensate these impedance variations and reduce reflections.
> 
> The nearest dimm slot on the motherboard to the memory controller (thus cpu) has higher amount of the distortions due to the shorter channel path vs signal's energy. Therefore with 2 dimm setup on the 4-dimm boards, where 2 first slots are channel A and 2 last slots are channel B (A0,A1,B0,B1) it is recommended to populate A1 and B1 - to keep the longer paths in use.
> 
> Equalizations of different sort are meant to help to keep the signal's integrity. The controller's I/O transceiver implements these mechanics. Rx DFE works fine up to the designed and advertised DDR frequency. Above it, the Rx DFE may help if configured properly or may introduce wrong decissions due to not enough data points. It depends on the controller's implementation. If Rx DFE cannot help anymore, it's worth to disable it.
> 
> On asus board I have no idea what "enabled" means in respect to DFE configuration. On the Unify-X the specified range makes more sense.
> 
> EDIT: I think some of you had much worse results on Apex while testing A0 vs B0 at the highest possible frequency. Maybe it is worth to test this again taking into account the above? Just saying.


Great explanation 👍


----------



## newls1

7empe said:


> It is all about the shape of the DDR signal - interferences and reflections. It also depends what's the memory topology, board design and board sample itself (quality variation). If we're going to use the "limit" category of anything I would say it's a board limit rather than DRAM limit, because distortions are caused by stubs on the signal's path with slightly different impedance and every termination point on such path (like on the memory and controller). Therefore on the memory-side of things board is adjusting resistors known as ODT to compensate these impedance variations and reduce reflections.
> 
> The nearest dimm slot on the motherboard to the memory controller (thus cpu) has higher amount of the distortions due to the shorter channel path vs signal's energy. Therefore with 2 dimm setup on the 4-dimm boards, where 2 first slots are channel A and 2 last slots are channel B (A0,A1,B0,B1) it is recommended to populate A1 and B1 - to keep the longer paths in use.
> 
> Equalizations of different sort are meant to help to keep the signal's integrity. The controller's I/O transceiver implements these mechanics. Rx DFE works fine up to the designed and advertised DDR frequency. Above it, the Rx DFE may help if configured properly or may introduce wrong decissions due to not enough data points. It depends on the controller's implementation. If Rx DFE cannot help anymore, it's worth to disable it.
> 
> On asus board I have no idea what "enabled" means in respect to DFE configuration. On the Unify-X the specified range makes more sense.
> 
> EDIT: I think some of you had much worse results on Apex while testing A0 vs B0 at the highest possible frequency. Maybe it is worth to test this again taking into account the above? Just saying.


god you're smart! Appreciate this info


----------



## Raphie

I tried this setting, but it didn't make a difference for me, yet, in the Y-cruncher dept. Haven't focused on other goodness it might bring yet, As I'm currently obsessed with Y-cruncher ATM 
I've found my 10/10 passing baseline @6800Mhz last week, but tightening up from there still causes Y-cruncher to randomly fail every on every 5, out of 5, or so.
Karhu is fine but Y-cruncher is on the edge. At least on my board mem cpu combo, it seems, in AIDA language that Y-cruncher plateaus @ Read - 109 - write 104 - copy 102. Anything above those values will survive Karhu, will bench fine in AIDA, do Anta with 2 fingers up it's nose (for me this is really the easiest test of them all) but will not *consistently* pass Y-cruncher.
So I'm now getting obsessed with Y-cruncher needing to pass 10 out of 10 in a row. Even 1 random _"coefficient too large"_ in a series of 9 passed results, at least for me, means it's NOT stable. Even if all the other stuff passes. As I have evidence of less aggressive settings that pass 10/10
Heat is not a problem HWINFO64 always peaks @ 42c in a run for Memory.


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> I tried this setting, but it didn't make a difference for me yet in the Y-cruncher dept. Haven't focussed on other goodness it might bring yet, As I'm obsessed with Y-cruncher ATM
> I've found my 10/10 passing baseline @6800Mhz last week, but tightening up from there still causes Y-cruncher to randomly fail every on out of 5 or so.
> Karhu is fine but Y-cruncher is on the edge. At least on my board mem cpu combo, it seems, in AIDA language that Y-cruncher plateaus @ Read - 109 - write 104 - copy 102. Anything above to values will survive Karhu, will bench fine in AIDA, do Anta with 2 fingers up it's nose (for me this is really the easiest test of them all) but will not consistently pass Y-cruncher.
> So I'm now getting obsessed with Y-cruncher remaining to pass 10 out of 10 in a row. Even 1 random "coefficient too large" in a series of passed results, at least for me, means it's NOT stable. Even if all the other stuff passes. As I have evidence of less agressive settings that pass 10/10
> Heat is not a problem HWINFO64 always peaks @ 42c in a run for Memory.


Disabling DFE is not a remedy if you spotted issues caused by some other factors  Speaking of y-cruncher, it is very tricky to distinguish what's failing. May be slightly unstable CPU that exposes its instabilities due to higher load caused by higher dram frequency or tighter timings. May be a ring that cannot keep up the pace. It may be the dram itself that has some timings at the border.

Some time ago, I discovered that y-cruncher 2.5b fails in my case at 1 of 10 runs because my CPU rated by all the SP algorithms to be able to keep 5200 MHz all-core heavy avx, can do in fact 5190 MHz max. These 10 MHz is a grey zone - may be fine, but if temps go 1C more than it can fail, or if heavy avx instruction goes to the weaker core. And so on, and so on. Lottery.

The problem with the OC is that we cannot isolate one component from another. Tighten one screw at one place can blow the things up in the different place, but does it mean that this screw was overwound?
The best OC is the one that allows all the components to run at optimal speed without breaking the stability of a whole.

Maybe in your case a solution would be to reduce the ring ratio by 100 MHz? I would not suspect that y-cruncher fails at 1:10 ratio because of the signaling issues. May be IMC voltage minimally too high or too low, minimal ring/core frequency aspects.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. The "_coefficient too large_" can be caused by too high tREFI. This kind of issues are easier to spot in the y-cruncher or LinpackXtreme than in the regular memtest (TM5, Karhu etc.). What's the tREFI you're at with your 6800?


----------



## Raphie

@7empe that’s exactly it. What I found last week passes 10/10 with that VDD, everything else on auto.
it’s now “just” the tightening up, to see what’s causing random borderline failure. I just want it to be perfect, not only TM5, but Karhu and Y-cruncher as well. Got it now for 6400/6600/6666 and 6800 (though @6800 timings still a bit to loose to my liking)

can boot and bench (AIDA TM5) 6933 and 7000Mhz as well, though not yet Y-cruncher or Karhu.
tomorrow my 12900KS will arrive, at least I have then 1 variable out of 3, that might yield better (or worse)
my 12900K is still stock (with -0.100 vf offset @ 48x)
will refrain from CPU OC untill I’ve got my memory 100% sorted out. In order not to bring more complexity into the equation) I realize like the puzzling aspect of the mem OC game, mixing and matching combinations, finding patterns while cracking the code. My biggest pitfall was going to fast, not building enough validation points (or with the wrong, not critical enough tools) inbetween.


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> @7empe that’s exactly it. What I found last week passes 10/10 with that VDD, everything else on auto.
> it’s now “just” the tightening up, to see what’s causing random borderline failure. I just want it to be perfect, not only TM5, but Karhu and Y-cruncher as well. Got it now for 6400/6600/6666 and 6800 (though @6800 timings still a bit to loose to my liking)
> 
> can boot and bench (AIDA TM5) 6933 and 7000Mhz as well, though not yet Y-cruncher or Karhu.
> tomorrow my 12900KS will arrive, at least I have then 1 variable out of 3, that might yield better (or worse)
> my 12900K is still stock (with -0.100 vf offset @ 48x)
> will refrain from CPU OC untill I’ve got my memory 100% sorted out. In order not to bring more complexity into the equation) I realize like the puzzling aspect of the mem OC game, mixing and matching combinations, finding patterns while cracking the code. My biggest pitfall was going to fast, not building enough validation points (or with the wrong, not critical enough tools) inbetween.


Allright then. Keep us informed with your KS results


----------



## jollib

Delete. It was answered later. so many pages to read lol.


----------



## Raphie

7empe said:


> Allright then. Keep us informed with your KS results


Will do, hope it brings something, I need to build a new gaming rig for my son as well, so the 12900k will be repurposed.
for me an undervolted KS saves me the hassle of air oc (yes I’m lazy I know  ) with hopefully a more forgiving IMC


----------



## jollib

I kinda wish we could import txt files for dram timings and just share the txt file and make that a universal standard amongst motherboard brands... but that would just be too easy..


----------



## Afferin

jollib said:


> I kinda wish we could import txt files for dram timings and just share the txt file and make that a universal standard amongst motherboard brands... but that would just be too easy..


Sounds like XMP with extra steps to me!

But real talk, I think the process of tuning and obtaining stability across each unique system is the fun part!


----------



## affxct

Have any of you noticed some weirdness in relation to CMOS clears and re-trains? By this point I'm certain they affect re-training. Have no other logical explanation by this point.


----------



## affxct

Afferin said:


> Sounds like XMP with extra steps to me!
> 
> But real talk, I think the process of tuning and obtaining stability across each unique system is the fun part!


It's fun when it makes scientific sense.


----------



## bigfootnz

Raphie said:


> @7empe that’s exactly it. What I found last week passes 10/10 with that VDD, everything else on auto.
> it’s now “just” the tightening up, to see what’s causing random borderline failure. I just want it to be perfect, not only TM5, but Karhu and Y-cruncher as well. Got it now for 6400/6600/6666 and 6800 (though @6800 timings still a bit to loose to my liking)
> 
> can boot and bench (AIDA TM5) 6933 and 7000Mhz as well, though not yet Y-cruncher or Karhu.
> tomorrow my 12900KS will arrive, at least I have then 1 variable out of 3, that might yield better (or worse)
> *my 12900K is still stock (with -0.100 vf offset @ 48x)*
> will refrain from CPU OC untill I’ve got my memory 100% sorted out. In order not to bring more complexity into the equation) I realize like the puzzling aspect of the mem OC game, mixing and matching combinations, finding patterns while cracking the code. My biggest pitfall was going to fast, not building enough validation points (or with the wrong, not critical enough tools) inbetween.


Did you try to remove this negative vf offset and try Y-cruncher?


----------



## affxct

Liquid4rt said:


> Update:
> 
> Tech support from ASrock has got back to me and confirmed the new bios release has not fixed the issue with the high VCCSA voltage. They are working on it and will give an update soon.


Last I used my Taichi I had 0.96 SA for 6400 XMP at auto. That's kinda odd.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> Have any of you noticed some weirdness in relation to CMOS clears and re-trains? By this point I'm certain they affect re-training. Have no other logical explanation by this point.


No. You either have a bad board or a setting off. My bad board that Asus replaced yes it did odd things like that. This one, not at all.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> No. You either have a bad board or a setting off. My bad board that Asus replaced yes it did odd things like that. This one, not at all.


I passed Karhu four times between reboots on my daily and I passed IBT V2 on XMP twice across cold boots as well. There's literally no way they were both just not stable. The OC literally passed Karhu once, then again, then a third time after reboot, then a fourth time days later after tightening tertiaries. The only thing that I changed was that I decided to go do some more testing to make sure of what this IMC is capable of as I'm trading for a different i9 in a few days. As a result I hit a Q-Code 53 so I had to clear CMOS to bring it back. 

If the board is not great fair enough, I concede that it isn't a great sample. That doesn't explain the fact that clearing CMOS borked signal training. Being that the ICs have passed so many variations in settings at different times, it's fairly safe to say they can do what they can do, but the only logical deduction would be the signal between the IMC and DIMM slots has been altered in some way.


----------



## gecko991

newls1 said:


> god you're smart! Appreciate this info


Thank you.


----------



## asdkj1740

Deleted


----------



## Raphie

affxct said:


> Have any of you noticed some weirdness in relation to CMOS clears and re-trains? By this point I'm certain they affect re-training. Have no other logical explanation by this point.


Yes, I feel this as well. Not on accessible settings, but for sure on stuff that’s not accessible in bios.


----------



## Raphie

bigfootnz said:


> Did you try to remove this negative vf offset and try Y-cruncher?


Yes, that, together with turning off AVX and turning off e-cores has all been explored individually. No difference whatsoever. It’s not a heat or voltage thing, it seems a bandwidth thing.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> Last I used my Taichi I had 0.96 SA for 6400 XMP at auto. That's kinda odd.


Not odd at all  That's how it should work. Don't know why boards are pushing SA with 1.25V for 6400, if with ddr5 memory controller runs at 1:2, so at 1600 MHz. It's like running ddr4 at 3200.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Not odd at all  That's how it should work. Don't know why boards are pushing SA with 1.25V for 6400, if with ddr5 memory controller runs at 1:2, so at 1600 MHz. It's like running ddr4 at 3200 at 1:1 ratio.


I mean, the other user claims there's an issue on ASRock boards setting like 1.6 SA or something insane.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> I mean, the other user claims there's an issue on ASRock boards setting like 1.6 SA or something insane.


Sounds like dead sensor maybe... What's the SA VID?


----------



## sugi0lover

One Unifiy itx user posted his finidings about Hynix DDR5 OC. I am not sure all this info is right, but you can take a look at it.


Spoiler: DDR5 OC Guide



*1.Voltages
SA *
recommend=0.95~1.25v
*VDD *
1.1~1.435v unlock >1.435v /VDD-0.06v< VDDQ< VDD+0.06v
*VDDQ*
1.1~1.435v unlock >1.435v/VDDQ-0.06v< VDD< VDDQ+0.06v
*VPP*
1.8~2.1v
*VDDQ TX *
may depend on IMC
*CPU VDD2 = MC* ?
may depend on IMC

*2.Timings

TCL*
/depends on VDD
*TRCD *
TRCD/(MCLK/2000)=TRCDns
*TRP*
Recommend=TRCD /the lower the better
*TRAS*
Recommend=TRCD+TRTP /the lower the better
*TRC*
TRP+TRAS
*TRRD*
sg(TRRD S) min=4, dg(TRRD L) min=4(TRRD S)=<
*TWTR L*
TWRRD sg-TCWL-6
*TWTR S*
TWRRD dg-TCWL-6
*TRFC*
MCLK/2000 x TRFCns
TRFC/(MCLK/2000)=TRFCns /depends on VDD
*TREFI*
Max - 256x1024=262144
255(TREFIx9)x1024=261120
TREFIx9x1024/2=130560, /4=65280 /8=32640 /sensitive to temp
*TWR*
TWRPDEN-TCWL-8(TBL)/the lower the better
*TRTP*
TRDPRE
*TFAW*
TRRDx4 min=16
*TCKE
TCWL*
Recommend=TCL-2
*TRDRD sg*
(=< TCCD L) , dg min=7
*TRDWR sg ,dg
TWRWR sg*
=< TRDRD sgx2(TCCD Lx2), dg min=7
*TWRRD sg*
TCWL+TWTR L+6, dg TCWL+TWTR S+6
*dr dd*
None
*TRDPRE*
=TRTP
*TWRPRE *
=TWRPDEN, < TWRPDEN(TWRPDEN-1)
*TPRPDEN
TRDPDEN*
TCL+8(TBL)
*TWRPDEN*
=TWR+TCWL+8(TBL)
*TXP
TPPD
RTT default
WR* 40 ?
*NOM(rd,wr)* 40 ?
*PARK(rd,wr)* 40 ?

*3. Helpful Bios Option*
Round Trip latency - enabled
DFE - disable





Spoiler: His 7000 CL32 OC based on the above rule



cpu 12600k stock
mb z690i unify
ram klevv 4800 cl40 16x2
-Voltage
SA 0.95v
PMIC unlocked
VDD 1.5v
VDDQ 1.44v
VPP 1.8v
VDDQ TX 1.4v
CPU VDD2 = 1.4v
- Timings
TCL 32
TRCD 41 TRCDns=41/(7000/2000) =11.7142857
TRP 41 = TRCD
TRAS 53 = 41(TRCD)+12(TRTP)
TRC 94 = 41(TRP)+53(TRAS)
TRRD sg 8, dg 8
TWTR L 26 = 62(TWRRD sg)-30(TCWL)-6
TWTR S 14 = 50(TWRRD dg)-30(TCWL)-6
TRFC 560 = 160x(7000/2000) TRFCns=160
TRFCpb 455 = 130x(7000/2000) TRFCpb ns=130
TREFI 32640 = (255(TREFIx9)x1024)/8
TWR 48 = 86(TWRPDEN)-30(TCWL)-8
TRTP 12
TFAW 32 = 8(TRRD sg)x4
TCKE 6
TCWL 30 = 32(TCL)-2
TCCD 8
TCCD L 16
TRDRD sg 16 = (TCCD L), dg 8 = (TCCD)
TRDWR sg 20 ,dg 20
TWRWR sg 32 = 16(TRDRD sg)x2, dg 8 = (TCCD)
TWRRD sg 62 = 26(TWTR L)+30(TCWL)+6 , dg 50 = 14(TWTR S)+30(TCWL)+6
dr dd 1(None)
TWRPRE 86 = 86(TWRPDEN)
TPRPDEN auto
TRDPDEN auto
TWRPDEN 86 = 48(TWR)+30(TCWL)+8
TXP auto
TPPD auto
RTT default
WR 40
NOM(rd,wr) 40
PARK(rd,wr) 40
- Options
Dram voltage boost off
Round Trip Latency on
SenseAmp Offset Training off
Turn Around Timing Training off
DIMM DFE Training off


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Sounds like dead sensor maybe... What's the SA VID?


I have no clue, you're going to have to ask him. I sold off my Taichi after I got this crap Apex, and last I checked the board was behaving totally normally.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another Unify X user's tip for ddr5 oc


Spoiler: DDR5 OC Options


----------



## 7empe

sugi0lover said:


> Another Unify X user's tip for ddr5 oc


Seems about right. Addition for an Apex users:

EARLY DFE Training : Enabled (!)


----------



## matique

Had some free time since I had to take some time off work for personal issues, spent the night fine tuning my terts. Probably as tight as can be given my current hardware. I'm pretty pleased with this, shall hold me till the next hynix die comes along or all the way till MTL. Ignore time for YC, only used it to check stability in addition to tm5, 3hr karhu, and OCCT 1hr (can't fit it in screenshot).

VDD: 1.61v set in bios 
VDDQ: 1.61v
TX VDDQ: 1.45v
SA: 1.25v
VDD2: 1.38v

Ram is Kingston 6000c40 with aftermarker XTIA heatsinks, during ram testing I had a A9x14 fan blowing over it. Ambient 24c.


----------



## Raphie

Let’s see if things get better imc wise…


----------



## Raphie

installed, some throttling going on, but no "coefficient too large" yet


----------



## nonamed

I am going to get B660 motherboard (Asus strix) in pair with DDR5 6000 (proablu Kingston Fury 6000c40) & 12600k. Anyone could confirm that this setup will be fully compatible and allow oc?


----------



## ChaosAD

Isnt my latency extremely bad? Am i doing something wrong here?


----------



## Raphie

Nope, looks good, kill some resident programs and doubleclick latency again
with all resident stuff killed, you should be 51-53ns


----------



## sugi0lover

sugi0lover said:


> One Unifiy itx user posted his finidings about Hynix DDR5 OC. I am not sure all this info is right, but you can take a look at it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DDR5 OC Guide
> 
> 
> 
> *1.Voltages
> SA *
> recommend=0.95~1.25v
> *VDD *
> 1.1~1.435v unlock >1.435v /VDD-0.06v< VDDQ< VDD+0.06v
> *VDDQ*
> 1.1~1.435v unlock >1.435v/VDDQ-0.06v< VDD< VDDQ+0.06v
> *VPP*
> 1.8~2.1v
> *VDDQ TX *
> may depend on IMC
> *CPU VDD2 = MC* ?
> may depend on IMC
> 
> *2.Timings
> 
> TCL*
> /depends on VDD
> *TRCD *
> TRCD/(MCLK/2000)=TRCDns
> *TRP*
> Recommend=TRCD /the lower the better
> *TRAS*
> Recommend=TRCD+TRTP /the lower the better
> *TRC*
> TRP+TRAS
> *TRRD*
> sg(TRRD S) min=4, dg(TRRD L) min=4(TRRD S)=<
> *TWTR L*
> TWRRD sg-TCWL-6
> *TWTR S*
> TWRRD dg-TCWL-6
> *TRFC*
> MCLK/2000 x TRFCns
> TRFC/(MCLK/2000)=TRFCns /depends on VDD
> *TREFI*
> Max - 256x1024=262144
> 255(TREFIx9)x1024=261120
> TREFIx9x1024/2=130560, /4=65280 /8=32640 /sensitive to temp
> *TWR*
> TWRPDEN-TCWL-8(TBL)/the lower the better
> *TRTP*
> TRDPRE
> *TFAW*
> TRRDx4 min=16
> *TCKE
> TCWL*
> Recommend=TCL-2
> *TRDRD sg*
> (=< TCCD L) , dg min=7
> *TRDWR sg ,dg
> TWRWR sg*
> =< TRDRD sgx2(TCCD Lx2), dg min=7
> *TWRRD sg*
> TCWL+TWTR L+6, dg TCWL+TWTR S+6
> *dr dd*
> None
> *TRDPRE*
> =TRTP
> *TWRPRE *
> =TWRPDEN, < TWRPDEN(TWRPDEN-1)
> *TPRPDEN
> TRDPDEN*
> TCL+8(TBL)
> *TWRPDEN*
> =TWR+TCWL+8(TBL)
> *TXP
> TPPD
> RTT default
> WR* 40 ?
> *NOM(rd,wr)* 40 ?
> *PARK(rd,wr)* 40 ?
> 
> *3. Helpful Bios Option*
> Round Trip latency - enabled
> DFE - disable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: His 7000 CL32 OC based on the above rule
> 
> 
> 
> cpu 12600k stock
> mb z690i unify
> ram klevv 4800 cl40 16x2
> -Voltage
> SA 0.95v
> PMIC unlocked
> VDD 1.5v
> VDDQ 1.44v
> VPP 1.8v
> VDDQ TX 1.4v
> CPU VDD2 = 1.4v
> - Timings
> TCL 32
> TRCD 41 TRCDns=41/(7000/2000) =11.7142857
> TRP 41 = TRCD
> TRAS 53 = 41(TRCD)+12(TRTP)
> TRC 94 = 41(TRP)+53(TRAS)
> TRRD sg 8, dg 8
> TWTR L 26 = 62(TWRRD sg)-30(TCWL)-6
> TWTR S 14 = 50(TWRRD dg)-30(TCWL)-6
> TRFC 560 = 160x(7000/2000) TRFCns=160
> TRFCpb 455 = 130x(7000/2000) TRFCpb ns=130
> TREFI 32640 = (255(TREFIx9)x1024)/8
> TWR 48 = 86(TWRPDEN)-30(TCWL)-8
> TRTP 12
> TFAW 32 = 8(TRRD sg)x4
> TCKE 6
> TCWL 30 = 32(TCL)-2
> TCCD 8
> TCCD L 16
> TRDRD sg 16 = (TCCD L), dg 8 = (TCCD)
> TRDWR sg 20 ,dg 20
> TWRWR sg 32 = 16(TRDRD sg)x2, dg 8 = (TCCD)
> TWRRD sg 62 = 26(TWTR L)+30(TCWL)+6 , dg 50 = 14(TWTR S)+30(TCWL)+6
> dr dd 1(None)
> TWRPRE 86 = 86(TWRPDEN)
> TPRPDEN auto
> TRDPDEN auto
> TWRPDEN 86 = 48(TWR)+30(TCWL)+8
> TXP auto
> TPPD auto
> RTT default
> WR 40
> NOM(rd,wr) 40
> PARK(rd,wr) 40
> - Options
> Dram voltage boost off
> Round Trip Latency on
> SenseAmp Offset Training off
> Turn Around Timing Training off
> DIMM DFE Training off
> View attachment 2564607


The same guy tightend ram timings a little more and here it is fyi.



Spoiler: 7000 CL32 2nd OC _ Unify itx



TRFC 560(160ns) > 315(90ns)
TRFCpb 455 (130ns) > 210(60ns)
vdd 1.51v


----------



## Bender82

My ASUS ROG STRIX B660-I GAMING WIFI is lock for cpu oc, but the memory G.Skill Ripjaws S5 Black DDR5 5200MHz 2x16GB (F5-5200J3636C1) hits cas 36-36-36-75 T1 6000 MHz 1.4v


----------



## ChaosAD

What is the use of tPPD? I saw a Russian video that suggests to set it to 0, he uses an Apex, I don't understand the language to know the reason. On the UnifyX the default is 2 and can only set to 1 not 0.


----------



## Raphie

Insane... all the Y-crunchers that failed, pass now, I must have had a dud of a 12900K or a golden 12900ks now... the IMC gap is HUGE...


----------



## Bender82

My G.Skill Ripjaws S5 Black DDR5 5200MHz 2x16GB (F5-5200J3636C16GX2-RS5K). Runs right now cas 36-36-36-75 T1 6000 MHz 1.4v on B660 ITX Asus rog strix


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Insane... all the Y-crunchers that failed, pass now, I must have had a dud of a 12900K or a golden 12900ks now... the IMC gap is HUGE...


Nice 🤩

Now push 7k  🤟

Love from Norway ♡


----------



## Raphie

On it!


----------



## asdkj1740

Bender82 said:


> My G.Skill Ripjaws S5 Black DDR5 5200MHz 2x16GB (F5-5200J3636C16GX2-RS5K). Runs right now cas 36-36-36-75 T1 6000 MHz 1.4v on B660 ITX Asus rog strix


which die is that?


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> Had some free time since I had to take some time off work for personal issues, spent the night fine tuning my terts. Probably as tight as can be given my current hardware. I'm pretty pleased with this, shall hold me till the next hynix die comes along or all the way till MTL. Ignore time for YC, only used it to check stability in addition to tm5, 3hr karhu, and OCCT 1hr (can't fit it in screenshot).
> 
> VDD: 1.61v set in bios
> VDDQ: 1.61v
> TX VDDQ: 1.45v
> SA: 1.25v
> VDD2: 1.38v
> 
> Ram is Kingston 6000c40 with aftermarker XTIA heatsinks, during ram testing I had a A9x14 fan blowing over it. Ambient 24c.


1usmus deserves much more attention on ddr5! nice!




sugi0lover said:


> The same guy tightend ram timings a little more and here it is fyi.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 7000 CL32 2nd OC _ Unify itx
> 
> 
> 
> TRFC 560(160ns) > 315(90ns)
> TRFCpb 455 (130ns) > 210(60ns)
> vdd 1.51v
> View attachment 2564714


sick!
it would be much more helpful if screenshots of bios timings are provided.


----------



## DyndaS

What can we call good and average overclock for samsung and good for hynix chips?

I mean for like 24/7 use.


----------



## sugi0lover

asdkj1740 said:


> 1usmus deserves much more attention on ddr5! nice!
> 
> 
> 
> sick!
> it would be much more helpful if screenshots of bios timings are provided.


It's not my oc, so I can only post what the guy posted.


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> It's not my oc, so I can only post what the guy posted.


understood!
noobs like me are feeling dizzy when seeing "*TWRWR sg" "TRDPRE".*


----------



## bigfootnz

Maybe someone will find this info helpful. When I was testing my Unify-X it was on test bench in my garage. Max temperature on ram sticks were around 38C and I was able pass any kind of RAM tests.

When I’ve installed Unify in my rig, max RAM temperature were in range 41C to 44C depending on the fan speed. But now I was having problems with my stable ram config. 
After whole morning testing I’ve found this:

if tWRWRsg is 9, mem tests will fail as soon as ram temperature is 41.5C
if tWRWRsg is 11, mem tests will fail as soon as ram temperature is 44C
if tWRWRsg is 12, mem tests will fail as soon as ram temperature is 45C

I’ve done multiple tests and every time it has failed on same temperature depending on tWRWRsg value


----------



## Bender82

My system G.Skill Ripjaws S5 Black DDR5 5200MHz 2x16GB (F5-5200J3636C16GX2-RS5K) 
cas 36-36-36-75 T1 6000 MHz Samsung


----------



## Bender82

asdkj1740 said:


> which die is that?


if you mean what ram factory they come from, then the samsung chip


----------



## Bender82

Bender82 said:


> if you mean what ram factory they come from, then samsung chip


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> On it!


Go for it! Take what's yours!


----------



## Raphie

booting (and BSOD'ing) 7200 right now


----------



## Bender82

update now its stabel.. memory has now 1.35v and T2


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Hello everyone.

From nowhere my system start to crash when playing, so I check bios and all setup just missed and I don´t know how so I´ve tried to do the previous setting and nothing works, as soon as I hit Aida64 to stress test it crashes right way. Not even using XMP I or II I get stability test ok. Does anyone can give any advise? DDR5 G.Skill 6400 Mhz CL36 - i9 12900K - Asus Glacial Z690 it is really driving me crazy


----------



## Bender82

Alessandro Silva said:


> est it crashes right way. Not even using XMP I or II I get stability test ok. Does anyone can give any advise? DDR5 G.Skill 6400 Mhz CL36 - i9 12900K - Asus Glacial Z690 it is really drivin


All Z690 has some problem with DDR5, so start with updating BIOS, maybe beta bios is better for some time..


----------



## Bender82

#5,492  then you need to find out which one you have under CPU-z *SK Hynix - Micron - Samsung DDR5 Overclocking Guide: A Little More Performance Never Hurts - Overclockers*


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Bender82 said:


> All Z690 has some problem with DDR5, so start with updating BIOS, maybe beta bios is better for some time..


Thanks Bender. My modules are SK Hynix and it was ok, suddenly and from nowhere just start the problems. I´ve just updated to 1505 bios, but still have no progress. When I set everything to auto including memories and post on 4800 Mhz I don´t have issues and memtest86 doesn´t crash, just hit any XMP and no test goes right. I don´t know what just happened.


----------



## Bender82

Alessandro Silva said:


> Thanks Bender. My modules are SK Hynix and it was ok, suddenly and from nowhere just start the problems. I´ve just updated to 1505 bios, but still have no progress. When I set everything to auto including memories and post on 4800 Mhz I don´t have issues and memtest86 doesn´t crash, just hit any XMP and no test goes right. I don´t know what just happened.


i see that, first of all nice board.. BIOS 
2022/06/02 11.22 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BIOS 1505
"1. Improve DRAM stability

Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (MZ690EG.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."

did you rename it ?


----------



## 7empe

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> From nowhere my system start to crash when playing, so I check bios and all setup just missed and I don´t know how so I´ve tried to do the previous setting and nothing works, as soon as I hit Aida64 to stress test it crashes right way. Not even using XMP I or II I get stability test ok. Does anyone can give any advise? DDR5 G.Skill 6400 Mhz CL36 - i9 12900K - Asus Glacial Z690 it is really driving me crazy
> View attachment 2564748
> 
> View attachment 2564749
> 
> View attachment 2564747
> 
> View attachment 2564746
> View attachment 2564750


Do I get it right, that you run cache/ring ratio at 45x with e-cores enabled at 41x ratio? I would try ring at 42x first.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Bender82 said:


> i see that, first of all nice board.. BIOS
> 2022/06/02 11.22 MBytes
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BIOS 1505
> "1. Improve DRAM stability
> 
> Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (MZ690EG.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."
> 
> did you rename it ?


Yeah, I rename it.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

7empe said:


> Do I get it right, that you run cache/ring ratio at 45x with e-cores enabled at 41x ratio? I would try ring at 42x first.


Yeah, you´re right. I´ll try it, thanks.


----------



## Bender82

Alessandro Silva said:


> Yeah, I rename it.


i hope others can help you, i have B660 ASUS ROG STRIX..


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Bender82 said:


> i hope others can help you, i have B660 ASUS ROG STRIX..


Thanks man, but I won the lottery. I had the great idea to test only one stick and now all tests are ok. Once again thanks.


----------



## Raphie

Things are improving.
-0.100mv now on all MP's
How low can most people undervolt with the KS? I only went up to 5100 below, before throttling.


----------



## tubs2x4

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> From nowhere my system start to crash when playing, so I check bios and all setup just missed and I don´t know how so I´ve tried to do the previous setting and nothing works, as soon as I hit Aida64 to stress test it crashes right way. Not even using XMP I or II I get stability test ok. Does anyone can give any advise? DDR5 G.Skill 6400 Mhz CL36 - i9 12900K - Asus Glacial Z690 it





Raphie said:


> Things are improving.
> -0.100mv now on all MP's
> How low can most people undervolt with the KS? I only went up to 5100 below, before throttling.
> 
> View attachment 2564768


i tried running that ycruncher using ycruncher.exe bench 2.5b and I came back like 3 min later still doing whatever it does. This is on 12700k. The fans weren’t spun up and cpu was hardly doing anything according to hwinfo.. not sure what’s up with that. Win10 not scheduling right?


----------



## Nelfhunt

tubs2x4 said:


> i tried running that ycruncher using ycruncher.exe bench 2.5b and I came back like 3 min later still doing whatever it does. This is on 12700k. The fans weren’t spun up and cpu was hardly doing anything according to hwinfo.. not sure what’s up with that. Win10 not scheduling right?


You are not stable.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Raphie said:


> Things are improving.
> -0.100mv now on all MP's
> How low can most people undervolt with the KS? I only went up to 5100 below, before throttling.
> 
> View attachment 2564768



You need to get better cooling or drop your clocks.


----------



## snakeeyes111

DyndaS said:


> What can we call good and average overclock for samsung and good for hynix chips?


This should be good oc for Samsung.


----------



## Raphie

Won't go AIO route, can't stand the pump noise (I already hate an aquarium in a living room)
+sustained benching is only now for stability. Currently running Karhu and CPU is 68
In my daily usage the CPU wont see 70c+ 
The fastest AIO systems here had 59.xx on Y-cruncher with e-cores on. I'm not done yet with memory, so expecting to bench <60sec soon.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Raphie said:


> Won't go AIO route, can't stand the pump noise (I already hate an aquarium in a living room)
> +sustained benching is only now for stability. Currently running Karhu and CPU is 68
> In my daily usage the CPU wont see 70c+
> The fastest AIO systems here had 59.xx on Y-cruncher with e-cores on. I'm not done yet with memory, so expecting to bench <60sec soon.



I'm running 5.4 to 5.2 and getting 87C tops in ycruncher. You're running way to hot. No disrespect seriously. I mean well. You'll get way better performance from your setup dropping things down some clock wise.


----------



## Raphie

I know you do, how should I do that? what would you suggest? I know undervolt but haven't played with clocks yet?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Raphie said:


> I know you do, how should I do that? what would you suggest? I know undervolt but haven't played with clocks yet?



Try 5.3 - 5.1 if not good enough try 5.2-5.1. I'd think that would be good enough I'd hope.

The lower clocks will need lower voltage too so, win win. The higher the clocks the qucker the voltages climb, significantly.


----------



## Raphie

so basically change the 2 5.5 p-cores to 5.3 or 5.1?


----------



## tubs2x4

Nelfhunt said:


> You are not stable.


So does the test quit or how you know that it’s not stable? Cause it was still doing something but then again I’ve never used it before to know what’s working or not.


----------



## bscool

tubs2x4 said:


> So does the test quit or how you know that it’s not stable? Cause it was still doing something but then again I’ve never used it before to know what’s working or not.


If y cruncher doesnt even start some setting is off. A voltage, clock(cpu or mem) or timings.

If it starts and fails part way through then some setting needs adjusting.

The way to rule out cpu oc is run it at default and if still fails something is off with memory like a voltage or timing. Takes trial and error to figure it out.


----------



## z390e

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I'm running 5.4 to 5.2 and getting 87C tops in ycruncher. You're running way to hot. No disrespect seriously. I mean well. You'll get way better performance from your setup dropping things down some clock wise.



Can confirm 12900KS y-cruncher 2.5b on Arctic Liquid Freezer 420 AIO was around 90c. Not the best score just posting for temperature reference for anyone wondering what AIO temps can look like.













tubs2x4 said:


> i tried running that ycruncher using ycruncher.exe bench 2.5b and I came back like 3 min later still doing whatever it does. This is on 12700k. The fans weren’t spun up and cpu was hardly doing anything according to hwinfo.. not sure what’s up with that. Win10 not scheduling right?


I would un-install it, then download the newest benchmate and be sure to install it via benchmate. Then run it and re-post.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

tubs2x4 said:


> So does the test quit or how you know that it’s not stable? Cause it was still doing something but then again I’ve never used it before to know what’s working or not.



I saw that his temps were 100C on his performance cores and 87C on the little cores. Also what BSCOOL stated as well.


----------



## matique

asdkj1740 said:


> 1usmus deserves much more attention on ddr5! nice!












How about 20 cycles? 😂 Got slightly paranoid so wanted to be completely sure about stability.


----------



## chentj1988

Raphie said:


> Things are improving.
> -0.100mv now on all MP's
> How low can most people undervolt with the KS? I only went up to 5100 below, before throttling.
> 
> View attachment 2564768


What’s your Voltage under load at 5.1ghz? 100C in Y-Cruncher means your cooling ain’t enough to handle your OC. Always make sure your temperature is under 85 when you run R23 multi. 90C is fine in Y-Cruncher, not 100C


----------



## asdkj1740

matique said:


> How about 20 cycles? 😂 Got slightly paranoid so wanted to be completely sure about stability.


i once got an error at cycle 23 lmao.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

asdkj1740 said:


> i once got an error at cycle 23 lmao.



Probably temperatures. They build up. You'll never see that in normal usage.


----------



## tubs2x4

z390e said:


> Can confirm 12900KS y-cruncher 2.5b on Arctic Liquid Freezer 420 AIO was around 90c. Not the best score just posting for temperature reference for anyone wondering what AIO temps can look like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would un-install it, then download the newest benchmate and be sure to install it via benchmate. Then run it and re-post.


yep it worked now after i downloaded benchmate... i tried it the first time and it locked up windows. my cpu voltage was little low. it needed another 30mv at current clock speeds to run.


----------



## Raphie

I’m not going the AIO route guys  the only reason I use Y-cruncher is testing stability. Once that’s sorted I’ll probably won’t touch it again. Same for Karhu, which is 67c under full load.
Y-cruncher is one or two transient spikes at the first of the 2 72%‘s, which is confirmed by the AIO example above here as well. Same result -/- 0.4sec. The D15 is more than sufficient for daily usage.
I’ll get <60sec before the end of the weekend. 
the screens are helpful. 1.332v as a 53x target gives me a good target to aim for.
I’m also still at 288w setting in bios, need to change that to 4096w as well, as It’s now capped.


----------



## Raphie

Nearly there. Yes AIO will give more headroom, but for me, upside not worth the downsides in daily usage.


----------



## rent0n

Raphie said:


> Nearly there. Yes AIO will give more headroom, but for me, upside not worth the downsides in daily usage.
> 
> View attachment 2564793


What are the downsides of an aio in daily?

As others suggested - if you are using yc pi-2.5b just to verify your mem oc, drop the frequencies and voltages on the 12900ks to something like 51(52)/40/40 under 1.3V because you are hardcore throttling. There is no point comparing scores on a throttling cpu, because they are off. Then raise the frequencies again for your daily usage and mb put an avx offset


----------



## Raphie

Ok, now I get it.
The downsides

pump noise (constant soft hum, can't stand it, not talking about air bubbles)
fans against radiator, acoustic noise

I work in a studio, 90% of the time CPU temp will be below 60c using Cubase and will be fully passive. without any noise.
Karhu under full load is just 63c on the D15, which is a more heavy load than I'll ever use. Idle my CPOU is 29c
I don't game on the system, I don't benchmark, except for a couple of weeks / months after upgrades.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Hi Guys,

I have an AORUS Z690 Ultra can't push even on XMP with my new Gskill Trident Z5 6400 sticks. I can boot on 6000, so that's where I would like to tighten the timings. Can someone post me some examples with similar config?
At the moment I am here, need to adjust some values later:


----------



## Raphie

One more thing on tRFC v/s tRFCPB
tRFCPB is always tRFC / 1.23
or tRFC is always tRFCPB *1.23
This seems to be the golden ratio you'll always find in JEDEC SPD settings


----------



## tubs2x4

Raphie said:


> Ok, now I get it.
> The downsides
> 
> pump noise (constant soft hum, can't stand it, not talking about air bubbles)
> fans against radiator, acoustic noise
> 
> I work in a studio, 90% of the time CPU temp will be below 60c using Cubase and will be fully passive. without any noise.
> Karhu under full load is just 63c on the D15, which is a more heavy load than I'll ever use. Idle my CPOU is 29c
> I don't game on the system, I don't benchmark, except for a couple of weeks / months after upgrades.


I have an af2 420 aio mounted top of case and you can’t hear nothing. My first aio. Whenever gaming or whatever under load it’s just case fans can hear.


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> One more thing on tRFC v/s tRFCPB
> tRFCPB is always tRFC / 1.23
> or tRFC is always tRFCPB *1.23
> This seems to be the golden ratio you'll always find in JEDEC SPD settings


For 4800 MT/s JEDEC-rated speed, the all-bank refresh is 295 ns and same-bank is 130 ns. Safe design definition.
So,

trfc = 295 * 4800 / 2000 = 708
trfcsb = 130 * 4800 / 2000 = 312

with the assumption of VDD 1.1V.

Voltage increase reduces both timings. Good chips can do somethink like 80-100 ns for all-bank and 60-80 ns same-bank at reasonable voltage.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

7empe said:


> For 4800 MT/s JEDEC-rated speed, the all-bank refresh is 295 ns and same-bank is 130 ns. Safe design definition.
> So,
> 
> trfc = 295 * 4800 / 2000 = 708
> trfcsb = 130 * 4800 / 2000 = 312
> 
> with the assumption of VDD 1.1V.
> 
> Voltage increase reduces both timings. Good chips can do somethink like 80-100 ns for all-bank and 60-80 ns same-bank at reasonable voltage.



I like you, you're very knowledgeable. I've my read through some of the ddr5 sheet. Is there one you recommend for information like what you just provided or is it the one I've read? I'd love to be more knowledgeable like you in regards to the memory timings.


----------



## jomama22

Raphie said:


> One more thing on tRFC v/s tRFCPB
> tRFCPB is always tRFC / 1.23
> or tRFC is always tRFCPB *1.23
> This seems to be the golden ratio you'll always find in JEDEC SPD settings


It's specified my jedec but the ratio doesn't need to be followed. Also, tRFC2 (sometimes refered to as tRFCab) and tRFCpb/sb are what are actually used in normal operation unless outside of the specified heat tolerance, which then tRFC is used.


----------



## Raphie

Great correction guys, keep the knowledge flowing, learning a lot.
just finished my 6800 baseline with the new KS, CPU 66 under load, mem 50c under load after 2.5h


----------



## 7empe

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I like you, you're very knowledgeable. I've my read through some of the ddr5 sheet. Is there one you recommend for information like what you just provided or is it the one I've read? I'd love to be more knowledgeable like you in regards to the memory timings.


Thanks man. I do not recall from where exactly I noted these values, but because it was few years ago, I believe it was a JEDEC DDR5 draft spec. Hopefully these timings did not change and are correct for DDR5 SPDs so they did not change them in the final spec. The final spec is not open, it costs around 400-500 bucks...

I'm following IEEE/JEDEC around optical and electrical signaling on a regular basis due to my profession. Helps a lot not only with overclocking ;-)


----------



## Nelfhunt

Easy summer memory overclock:
GSkill [email protected], 12*7*00KF, Unify ITX.
VDD/Q: ----- 1.5V
SA: ---------- 1.2V
VDDQtx: --- 1.42V
IMCVDD2: - 1.42V


----------



## Raphie

Nelfhunt said:


> Easy summer memory overclock:
> GSkill [email protected], 12*7*00KF, Unify ITX.
> VDD/Q: ----- 1.5V
> SA: ---------- 1.2V
> VDDQtx: --- 1.42V
> IMCVDD2: - 1.42V


Very nice! how did you end up with these values? not stable on auto, or starting position, or instability, lots of tweaking and testing?


----------



## z390e

Raphie said:


> I work in a studio, 90% of the time CPU temp will be below 60c using Cubase and will be fully passive. without any noise.


So, just so I understand, you bought a high-end chip, you are on an OC forum, but you are describing not using the CPU to do any hard processing, and don't expect it to ever get above 60c? 

As an analyst I am very intrigued why you went with the 12900KS if you don't game, benchmark, and don't need a heavy OC'd CPU? Does this mean your main goal was to get the IMC from the 12900KS so you could OC your DDR5? What software are you seeing gains in with these DDR5 speeds if it isn't gaming or benchmarking and your CPU isn't exceeding 60c? Even Steam downloads approach that.


----------



## Raphie

Correct, with proper undervolting and a better IMC it's still profit
it's a bandwidth CPU utilisation multhreading thing. loads of plugins and parallel realtime low latency processes.
induvidually not very taxing, but stacking 100 plugin instances over 24 threads and keeping it realttime is.
To give you an impression my Audio interface is RME Madi FX HDSPe MADI FX - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions (rme-audio.de)


----------



## Raphie

Did anyone see this? 4 fans, 22,22 euro? Noctua Fan Bundle: 4x NF-A14 PWM, High Quality Silent Fan, 4-Pins (140mm, Brown) : Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo


----------



## z390e

Raphie said:


> Correct, with proper undervolting and a better IMC it's still profit
> it's a bandwidth CPU utilisation multhreading thing. loads of plugins and parallel realtime low latency processes.
> induvidually not very taxing, but stacking 100 plugin instances over 24 threads and keeping it realttime is.
> To give you an impression my Audio interface is RME Madi FX HDSPe MADI FX - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions (rme-audio.de)


As someone who has spent weeks editing DSD files, you don't have to convince me  

Figured it was something like that but am always curious


----------



## Raphie

I know, the way I look at it:

currently not even 100 euro difference
factory OC as bonus.
when properly undervolted, same or better thermals than 12900k
Better IMC mileage
All because of binning.

In comparison: ordering, testing and reselling 5 12900K's will cost more on write offs / restocking. And you still don't know whether it's going to be an improvement or not.


----------



## Raphie

So I changed the Unify-X remote to ratio and tested Y-cruncher
Temps from left to right with the different ratio’s starting 46-47-48-49-50-51
50 was the highest ratio not clipping the 100c
which gave me 61secs, so now further testing is as simple as putting the MP back to 46 or so, as the KS is then nicely humming along at 1.1v. Which should not matter for memory testing other than missing heat in the equation. I'm wondering how much undervolting room there still is in the 50 and 51 MP as they are significantly higher than the 46-49MP's


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Raphie said:


> So I changed the Unify-X remote to ratio and tested Y-cruncher
> Temps from left to right with the different ratio’s starting 46-47-48-49-50-51
> 50 was the highest ratio not clipping the 100c
> which gave me 61secs, so now further testing is as simple as putting the MP back to 46 or so, as the KS is then nicely humming along at 1.1v. Which should not matter for memory testing other than missing heat in the equation. I'm wondering how much undervolting room there still is in the 50 and 51 MP as they are significantly higher than the 46-49MP's
> 
> View attachment 2564834
> View attachment 2564835



Told you it would act better didn't I? Here's mine right now for the fun of it.


----------



## Raphie

You’re on 360 AIO?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Raphie said:


> You’re on 360 AIO?



No. Four external radiators, custom loop that I built. I'm cooling my 3090 with a flashed king pin 500 Watt BIOS and the CPU all in one loop. I pull a lot of watts with my GPU in the loop as well. Especially when benching it.

I've pulled 700~ watts with the GPU before by itself.


----------



## Raphie

Madness  Really good temps though.


----------



## Benni231990

Hi 

Can Anybody Tell or have a link How i can remove My heatsink from my gskill 6000cl 40 i want to remove the glue tape and want to replace it Real thermal pads


----------



## KedarWolf

Benni231990 said:


> Hi
> 
> Can Anybody Tell or have a link How i can remove My heatsink from my gskill 6000cl 40 i want to remove the glue tape and want to replace it Real thermal pads


I've heard people say heating up the heatsinks with a hair dryer is the best way.


----------



## Raphie

One of the things I learned last night is that the cooler does NOT affect ambient ram temps
running Karhu @ 5100mhz (cpu 67c) or 4500mhz (cpu 48c) did not affect the ram temp @ 6800Mhz. In both scenarios that still slowly creeped up to 50c.
I would had expected that -20c cpu dispensation would affect the ram temp somehow, with maybe a couple of degrees, but under load it didn’t all. So clearance and improved ambient temp would not be a reason to go AIO.


----------



## 7empe

This incredible moment when you realize how much ddr5 is different from previous generations… Suddenly an ASUS auto-rule for VDDQ Tx is no longer valid (i.e. may be much, much lower than VDD/VDDQ), memory training is reproducible and consistently stable. Did you ever noticed a situation when the memory test is stable but y-cruncher and Linpack fails? On-die ECC works quite well but not well enough for those two ^^

Who did not take tREFI 65535+ as granted?
More details soon.


----------



## chentj1988

Raphie said:


> One of the things I learned last night is that the cooler does NOT affect ambient ram temps
> running Karhu @ 5100mhz (cpu 67c) or 4500mhz (cpu 48c) did not affect the ram temp @ 6800Mhz. In both scenarios that still slowly creeped up to 50c.
> I would had expected that -20c cpu dispensation would affect the ram temp somehow, with maybe a couple of degrees, but under load it didn’t all. So clearance and improved ambient temp would not be a reason to go AIO.


There are 2 things you can do to improve Ram Temp using air. 
1. Put a small Noctua 4800rpm fans on top of your ram. 
2. Put a 140mm fans at the back of your motherboard, the place right behind your cpu.


----------



## Raphie

Yup, all my experience too. TREFI 32640 here, also same twilight zone inconsistency with borderline timings.
Hence I'm so fierce on extensive Karhu and multiple runs Y-cruncher testing. I've learned by now that a couple of Y-cruncher runs and an hour of your favorite TM5 flavour of the week preset is NOT enough (IMHO appreciate yours may be different). And what passed on Monday, may fail on Tuesday. I'm now in search for those a bit more relaxed timings which provide sufficient headroom to perform consistent. Auto settings (safe, plenty of headroom, were an eye-opener as starting point) Also benches being slower with too tight settings than more lose settings.
I've not been able to get tREFI 65K and above 100% stable consistently without crazy voltages, same for tFAW on 16 instead of 32.

That's probably the difference between others needing north of 1.6v and me playing around 1.45-1.50 trying to find settings loose enough to cater for theses voltages. Not saying one is better than other, but just a different approach.
And then there are the high clocks in-between 6800-7000 on decent voltages, perfectly stable in windows, no issues whatsoever, but not 100% Karhu / Y-cruncher stable, hence you don't see those on the screen.


----------



## Raphie

chentj1988 said:


> There are 2 things you can do to improve Ram Temp using air.
> 1. Put a small Noctua 4800rpm fans on top of your ram.
> 2. Put a 140mm fans at the back of your motherboard, the place right behind your cpu.


I've got both 80mm above ram and 120mm exhaust on the rear
2x 140mm front intake
and I'll add 2x 140mm top exhaust today (or maybe top intake, depending on what cools best)


----------



## jeiselramos

6800 30-40-40-28 2T
1.55 VDD 1.45 VDDQ
SA 0.927 (Offset Auto)
CPU VDDQ 1.2
CPU VDD2 1.44


----------



## chentj1988

Raphie said:


> I've got both 80mm above ram and 120mm exhaust on the rear
> 2x 140mm front intake
> and I'll add 2x 140mm top exhaust today (or maybe top intake, depending on what cools best)


I mean this. Lol… try it although it looks awkward. Help me 5C ram temp.


----------



## Raphie

New learning:
@6800Mhz (at least on my system) tWR can't be lower than 24 (following tWRPRE & tWRPDEN settings of 60)
going lower still passes Karhu and TM5 and no issues in Windows whatsoever, but it makes Y-cruncher fail randomly (like one out of four runs)

At 6666 and lower, a tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, as low as 48, work fine here. (pushing tWR to 8) But at 6800 things need a bit more headroom. On my system more voltage doesn't sort this.
You can validate whether this is the case on your system as well by just running the 2.5b from benchmate and run 5 to 10 runs in a row, when one fails with "Coefficient too large" you've confirmed the limit


----------



## Lord Alzov

Raphie said:


> So I changed the Unify-X remote to ratio and tested Y-cruncher
> Temps from left to right with the different ratio’s starting 46-47-48-49-50-51
> 50 was the highest ratio not clipping the 100c
> which gave me 61secs, so now further testing is as simple as putting the MP back to 46 or so, as the KS is then nicely humming along at 1.1v. Which should not matter for memory testing other than missing heat in the equation. I'm wondering how much undervolting room there still is in the 50 and 51 MP as they are significantly higher than the 46-49MP's
> 
> View attachment 2564835


VERY VERY BAD RESULT for 12900ks LOL 
ON 5300 12900k 57.710 LOL


----------



## Raphie

It' not bad, it's limited. If I would go with a 360AIO or custom loop instead of D15 I could do 57sec as well. 
I know what's holding it back, I'm just not prepared to fix it.


----------



## bigfootnz

Lord Alzov said:


> VERY VERY BAD RESULT for 12900ks LOL
> ON 5300 12900k 57.710 LOL


So you are comparing 12900k @5.3/4.2/4.x and 6800C30 @1T on Unify vs [email protected]/4/4.x with [email protected] on Unify-X (which do not OC ram as a Unify) on air cooling??? What is point of this, except for your bragging rights? Yes, you have better score and so what?


----------



## Raphie

I'm interested in the 1T CL30 though, are your DIMMS on WC? or air? care to share settings? what VDD(Q)?


----------



## Lord Alzov

bigfootnz said:


> So you are comparing 12900k @5.3/4.2/4.x and 6800C30 @1T on Unify vs [email protected]/4/4.x with [email protected] on Unify-X (which do not OC ram as a Unify) on air cooling??? What is point of this, except for your bragging rights? Yes, you have better score and so what?


he has the same memory as I have gskill 6400 in overclocking, 12900KS STOCK 5200, on his screen 5300, where did you get 5000mhz?


----------



## Lord Alzov

Raphie said:


> I'm interested in the 1T CL30 though, are your DIMMS on WC? or air? care to share settings? what VDD(Q)?


1.57VDDQ 1.42 SA 1.45 VDDQ TX 1.45 VDD2 WC


----------



## Raphie

Lord Alzov said:


> 1.57VDDQ 1.42 SA 1.45 VDDQ TX 1.45 VDD2 WC


Can you post dragonball with secondary tertiary settings pls?


----------



## bigfootnz

Lord Alzov said:


> he has the same memory as I have gskill 6400 in overclocking, 12900KS STOCK 5200, on his screen 5300, where did you get 5000mhz?


If you look his screen you will see that max frequency is 5.3GHz but max effective frequency is 5GHz. He is on air cooler he cannot be running 5.3GHz.
Yes, he has same memory but different mobo, his one is Unify-X which is not good mem OC like your one Unify.


----------



## jomama22

Lord Alzov said:


> he has the same memory as I have gskill 6400 in overclocking, 12900KS STOCK 5200, on his screen 5300, where did you get 5000mhz?


It literally shows his max effective clock in 5.0 on the p-cores through the run due to thermal throttling (they are on air cooling).

Stop being rude and obnoxious for no reason.


----------



## rent0n

VERY VERY BAD READING for Alzov LOL


----------



## Lord Alzov

Raphie said:


> Can you post dragonball with secondary tertiary settings pls?


----------



## Raphie

So what can you get for 1.5v VDD?
6800 32-40-40-28 2T
6400 30-39-39-56 1T
6600 1T out of reach, even @ 34-42-42-56 it needs more than 1.5v

6800 2T benches the highest, any reason why I should further pursuit 6400 1T? Both latency and throughput are less, at the same voltage tax. It seems that 1T only makes sense, if you have the cooling for it, in order to top the same 2T config, but at the cost much higher voltage?
None of the 1T configs <1.5v seem to come close to what 2T can do. If 1.5v is ceiling i’m prepared to go for, what am I missing?


----------



## z390e

Lord Alzov said:


> he has the same memory as I have gskill 6400 in overclocking, 12900KS STOCK 5200, on his screen 5300, where did you get 5000mhz?


He is literally on an air cooler and you are on a custom waterblock with multiple rads, and direct die, if I recall? Also you have a different CPU that you spent years dialing in. The other user been on here a few weeks just getting his RAM dialed in. 

Additionally he is at 5g, you are much higher temps. Look at his benchmate score it says average effective clocks. Even your custom loop is at 96c during 5.3 runs, mine will hit 100c on AIO, air cooler cannot keep that high a clock cool enough.

Would you be ok with @Splave making fun of your lame 12900KF OC because he can get 6.5g on LN2? C'mon. Show some respect.


----------



## Raphie

I'm done with 6800 now, 32-40-40-28 2T 1.5v, happy with both throughput and latency


----------



## DyndaS

snakeeyes111 said:


> This should be good oc for Samsung.


1,6V is a bit to high for 24/7.

I tested 2 samsung sets kingston and corsair dominator. I have issue with it because everything above 6200 and bellow 36cl do not wanna work. Not sure what I am or my motherboard doing wrong.

MSI Z690 Torpedo


----------



## SuperMumrik

DyndaS said:


> 1,6V is a bit to high for 24/7.


Why is that? I've been running 1.65+ for months now.. It's not broken yet 😆


----------



## Raphie

SuperMumrik said:


> Why is that? I've been running 1.65+ for months now.. It's not broken yet 😆


On air? context is everything here


----------



## glnn_23

12900k 5.3 
G.Skill 6400 @ 7000c32
Unify itx.

DRAM VDD/VDDQ 1.46 - Dragon power reading incorrect.
VDDQ TX 1.35 
CPU VDD2 1.42 
SA 1.195

CPU Custom water 2 x 360
120mm fan over dimms.


----------



## Raphie

That Unify ITX is insane 7K @ 1.46. I already need 1.5 @ 6800Mhz


----------



## Raphie

So close and yet so far........ 

Someone find me that half a second, just want 59.xxx on air


----------



## Raphie

Aaaarrggghhhhhhh 🤣


----------



## newls1

I keep seeing people with low tRAS timings of like 26-28, yet im at 66 with my hynix kit. What is to be gained with such low tRAS and would i notice a difference if I changed from 66 to 28? Here are my mem settings


----------



## dante`afk

holy sheet. after having the unify-x collecting dust in the corner since over a month, I found some time today to install it (thanks to my wife taking the kids out the whole day )

what can I say, it not only boots up A LOT faster than my apex, it's also running xmp without hiccups and even quick and dirty boot to 6900 without adjusting timings

now finding the time to finetune it.


Well done MSI 👏


----------



## tibcsi0407

Since I am walling with my AORUS Ultra at 6000, I tried to tighten the timings on the Trident Z5 6400 as much as possible (even 1T works like charm).
I can't believe that I can't go above this speed.
For TWR the BIOS doesn't let me to go under 48, is there any reason for this?


----------



## Raphie

Twr is set by tdpre / tdpden leave it on auto


----------



## tibcsi0407

Raphie said:


> Twr is set by tdpre / tdpden leave it on auto


Thank you! So I need to reduce those values to get lower TWR? Is there any ratio between those?
Edit:
Found it, thank you.

_tWR is controlled by tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, if you want a formula: tWR = tWRPDEN - (tCWL + 8)_


----------



## Raphie

48 equals 12


----------



## tibcsi0407

Raphie said:


> 48 equals 12


Now I will test this. Would be nice to find some ns in latency, I have no idea what to change to keep it stable on 1T.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> 48 equals 12


Depends on what tcwl you have, if you have 26 or 24 is 46 or 44


----------



## bada55

passed tm5 with no errors (1.5 hour) on apex with cpu 5.6-5.8 ghz and ram 6933 mhz cl30, but often if start test again or after reboot i get some errors...wonder if anyone experiencing same thing on apex ?


----------



## Raphie

yes, you‘re not stable, it's not a sharp razorlike border, it's a blurry zone. You're only stable if comfortable out of that zone. In the zone you'll have inconsistent results like you are experiencing now. So you need to dial back and test again, and longer.


----------



## Bender82

Alessandro Silva said:


> Yeah, you´re right. I´ll try it, thanks.


try this


----------



## jomama22

Bender82 said:


> try this


No


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> I keep seeing people with low tRAS timings of like 26-28, yet im at 66 with my hynix kit. What is to be gained with such low tRAS and would i notice a difference if I changed from 66 to 28? Here are my mem settings
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2565082


?


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> ?





newls1 said:


> I keep seeing people with low tRAS timings of like 26-28, yet im at 66 with my hynix kit. What is to be gained with such low tRAS and would i notice a difference if I changed from 66 to 28? Here are my mem settings
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2565082


To my knowledge, the tRAS and tRC timings on Hynix do not exist/do anything. Not entirely sure what the deal is. Sometimes I run 28 and sometimes I run something in the low 30s if 28+tRP doesn't add up to a multiple of 5 XD.


----------



## jeiselramos

Less VDD/VDDQ and more tight timings than the previous profile 
6800 30-40-40-28 2T
1.47 VDD 1.44 VDDQ
1.44 VDD2
1.2 VDDQ TX


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> Less VDD/VDDQ and more tight timings than the previous profile
> 6800 30-40-40-28 2T
> 1.47 VDD 1.44 VDDQ
> 1.44 VDD2
> 1.2 VDDQ TX


How does Y-cruncher 2.5b hold up with these, I've got identical settings, need 1.5v and tfaw 32 for Y-cruncher
Karhu / Testmem do fine, but Y-cruncher BSOD's with TFAW 16 Are u on Skill or Teamgroup?


----------



## KedarWolf

Raphie said:


> How does Y-cruncher 2.5b hold up with these, I've got identical settings, need 1.5v and tfaw 32 for Y-cruncher
> Karhu / Testmem do fine, but Y-cruncher BSOD's with TFAW 16 Are u on Skill or Teamgroup?


You want to run the y-cruncher stress tests overnight, but beware, some of them run very hot, have good cooling.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> How does Y-cruncher 2.5b hold up with these, I've got identical settings, need 1.5v and tfaw 32 for Y-cruncher
> Karhu / Testmem do fine, but Y-cruncher BSOD's with TFAW 16 Are u on Skill or Teamgroup?


60.2xx/3xx multiple time
TEAMGROUP 6400C40

I'll bump to 51/41/44 when I'm done with my ram
The gol is 59s


----------



## snakeeyes111

7000 Samsung quickshot with stock CPU and many background process.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Bender82 said:


> try this


Doesn´t matter what I try, won´t help. Yestarday I´ve just reset everything and try to post using XMP II, simply I got "check cpu" or "memory error 55" at MB oled panel. Reset everything again and use a saved profile, and then ok PC post, Aida stress ok for 12 minutes, no memory errors at memtest, today decided to check if stability was ok and guess what? Erros right way once I hit Aida for test. Man there´s no logic. 
Now using VDD 1.53v and VDDQ 1.51v and MC 1.375v ( same as before when has no erros ) all other voltage on auto, P and E cores on AI optimized. I don´t know what to do anymore, I tought my sticks were damaged but it´s not I have purschased another G.Skill kit and I have the same problems.


----------



## Raphie

How are your temps? the g-skills don't like 50c+
Did you test your CPU stock? are u on air or AIO? idle / load temps?
What about optimized defaults (F6) 4800Mhz JEDEC? still issues? if ok then something is configured wrong 6400 / 6600 should both do auto, 6666 1.42, 6800 1.47-.1.50 depending on board.


----------



## z390e

KedarWolf said:


> You want to run the y-cruncher stress tests overnight, but beware, some of them run very hot, have good cooling.



he is on air he shouldn't be running 2.5b more than once or twice at most


----------



## Raphie

I run it now at lower MP, thnx to the lovely remote  it now tops 70c when mem testing. 
So I know it's the mem, not CPU / heat.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Raphie said:


> How are your temps? the g-skills don't like 50c+
> Did you test your CPU stock? are u on air or AIO? idle / load temps?
> What about optimized defaults (F6) 4800Mhz JEDEC? still issues? if ok then something is configured wrong 6400 / 6600 should both do auto, 6666 1.42, 6800 1.47-.1.50 depending on board.


Hi Raphie. On Aida stress test memories doesn´t go above 47ºC. My cooling system I think it´s ok, 1 X 360 MM radiator push&pull, CPU runs at 60/62ºC on tests, in games 55ºC it´s the highest temp.
About the stock CPU, no I haven´t test but I´m going to. When default 4800 Mhz I have no issues, no memtest erros, 20 minutes on Aida stress test and no errors.
Below my PC image, I think cooling isn´t a problem, but who knows.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hi Raphie. On Aida stress test memories doesn´t go above 47ºC. My cooling system I think it´s ok, 1 X 360 MM radiator push&pull, CPU runs at 60/62ºC on tests, in games 55ºC it´s the highest temp.
> About the stock CPU, no I haven´t test but I´m going to. When default 4800 Mhz I have no issues, no memtest erros, 20 minutes on Aida stress test and no errors.
> Below my PC image, I think cooling isn´t a problem, but who knows.
> 
> View attachment 2565186



Yeah I don't think it's cooling either but if you don't have a fan on them I would but, that's not it. So you just can't run xmp?


----------



## Alessandro Silva

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Yeah I don't think it's cooling either but if you don't have a fan on them I would but, that's not it. So you just can't run xmp?


I´m trying to now, once I try to post PC it just gives me blue screen reset and now post, but CUP on auto. Let´s see...


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alessandro Silva said:


> I´m trying to now, once I try to post PC it just gives me blue screen reset and now post, but CUP on auto. Let´s see...



No worries, you should be running XMP I from what I've read / been told not XMP II. When I did mine the first time I just bumped my IMC voltage up a little to 1.25 instead of 1.15 and the memory voltages up a little as well to 1.45 instead of 1.35 and was able to run things from there fine. Then I saved that as a profile and was able to load it from there from the profile and start tweaking things. I would also do a clear cmos and power your pc down and unplug the power while doing so before attempting to clear any resilient issues out of the system first so, fresh start if you will.

I'd clear the cmos for about a minute holding the button with everything unplugged and powered down to be sure.


----------



## bigfootnz

With this A62 BIOS I've one problem. Is my OC becomes unstable and PC crash, sometimes after reboot motherboard is stuck with error 5C. In that case I've to clear CMOS, boot into windows and only then load profile in BIOS. I've contacted MSI and the have provided me new test BIOS A65.
Here it is if anyone want to give it a go BIOS A65 for Unify-X

Please use it on your own risk as always as it is test bios


----------



## Alessandro Silva

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> No worries, you should be running XMP I from what I've read / been told not XMP II. When I did mine the first time I just bumped my IMC voltage up a little to 1.25 instead of 1.15 and the memory voltages up a little as well to 1.45 instead of 1.35 and was able to run things from there fine. Then I saved that as a profile and was able to load it from there from the profile and start tweaking things. I would also do a clear cmos and power your pc down and unplug the power while doing so before attempting to clear any resilient issues out of the system first so, fresh start if you will.
> 
> I'd clear the cmos for about a minute holding the button with everything unplugged and powered down to be sure.


Okay, thanks for the advise but for sure it was XMP II not I, anyway. I´ll clear cmos and proced as you mention.
Before doing it, I´ve cleared cmos but not as you mentioned and let everything on auto, and PC post and I made Aida test. 10 minutes and no error, but everything on auto.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alessandro Silva said:


> Okay, thanks for the advise but for sure it was XMP II not I, anyway. I´ll clear cmos and proced as you mention.
> Before doing it, I´ve cleared cmos but not as you mentioned and let everything on auto, and PC post and I made Aida test. 10 minutes and no error, but everything on auto.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2565262


These motherboards tend to have residual issues where issues linger until you clear them completely, the hard way. I like to do it the old school dip switches on the CPU socket adapter days way which is one minute unplugged holding that button for life but if it works, you're welcome.


----------



## affxct

Okay so, having a really good IMC actually seems to make a freakin' HUGE difference to memory training and max achievable 1T/2T results, and it seems as though sometimes you need to decrease tCL, and some of the tertiaries to improve stability. I've also found that 1T takes an achievable OC and pretty much drops it by 200Mbps at the same voltages (except for VDD2 which scales with data rate). SA requirements are 6600 2T also seem to be significantly lower than 6400 1T.


----------



## asdkj1740

Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive







drive.google.com





advanced beta bios
27/6
carbon - a71u2
force - a71u2

28/6
ace - a62u2
godlike - a81u1

-------------








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Yeah I don't think it's cooling either but if you don't have a fan on them I would but, that's not it. So you just can't run xmp? I´m trying to now, once I try to post PC it just gives me blue screen reset and now post, but CUP on auto. Let´s see...




www.overclock.net




latest beta bios provided by *bigfootnz*
unify x - a65


----------



## Raphie

I’ve found 1T to be way more power hungry, on the z690a Pro with ddr4 1t was really about loosening timings a bit, now it’s loosening and raising VDD with at least 0.15v -0.20v.
still there is some headroom issue is A6U2. The board seems to be more forgiving, or making different training decisions every reboot. AIDA benches vary. Settings that are stable suddenly needing 0.1v more, or the other way around suddenly passing with 0.2v less. 
A31 was ruthless, but razorsharp, it was what it was. But you know what you had. More consistent. The headroom now seems more pillowy, like a cushion absorbing rough edges, but it all being a bit fluffy all sort of hovering to the same bandwidth ceiling.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> I’ve found 1T to be way more power hungry, on the z690a Pro with ddr4 1t was really about loosening timings a bit, now it’s loosening and raising VDD with at least 0.15v -0.20v.
> still there is some headroom issue is A6U2. The board seems to be more forgiving, or making different training decisions every reboot. AIDA benches vary. Settings that are stable suddenly needing 0.1v more, or the other way around suddenly passing with 0.2v less.
> A31 was ruthless, but razorsharp, it was what it was. But you know what you had. More consistent. The headroom now seems more pillowy, like a cushion absorbing rough edges, but it all being a bit fluffy all sort of hovering to the same bandwidth ceiling.


I did some test at 6000
6000C30 2T 1.34
6000C30 1T 1.39
6000C32 1T 1.30
6000C32 2T 1.25
So basically i needed 50mv to reach the same CL with 1T or loose 2CL at the same voltage


----------



## tibcsi0407

jeiselramos said:


> I did some test at 6000
> 6000C30 2T 1.34
> 6000C30 1T 1.39
> 6000C32 1T 1.30
> 6000C32 2T 1.25
> So basically i needed 50mv to reach the same CL with 1T or loose 2CL at the same voltage


Seems correct. I am at 6000C28 1T and had to set VDD/VDDQ to 1.45 in BIOS.


----------



## 7empe

tibcsi0407 said:


> Seems correct. I am at 6000C28 1T and had to set VDD/VDDQ to 1.45 in BIOS.


That's correct, 6400C28 1T with VDD 1.55V and VDDQ 1.45V.
For command rate only DRAM VDD matters and DRAM VDDQ may stay unchanged. The CR 1T requires also significant increase of CPU VDDQ and in this particular case it was going from 1.25V to 1.50V to keep training consistent. The IMC voltage does not require any tweaking and it sits stable at 1.25V, just like with 2T.










Every +2 to tCL allows on -50 mV on VDD at the same frequency.
Keeping the same tCL allows on -50 mV with every decrease of 200 MT/s at frequency.


----------



## tibcsi0407

7empe said:


> That's correct, 6400C28 1T with VDD 1.55V and VDDQ 1.45V.
> For command rate only DRAM VDD matters and DRAM VDDQ may stay unchanged. The CR 1T requires also significant increase of CPU VDDQ and in this particular case it was going from 1.25V to 1.50V to keep training consistent.
> 
> View attachment 2565389
> 
> 
> Every +2 to tCL allows on -50 mV on VDD at the same frequency.
> Keeping the same tCL allows on -50 mV with every decrease of 200 MT/s at frequency.


So, I could reduce the VDDQ? For TX I have 1.425 now. It's stable. I am walling at 6000 with my Gskill 6400 kit (AORUS Ultra...), so I tried to tighten it as much as possible. Maybe I can find some extra speed later, this is where I am now:









It's really hard to believe that it is capable for C28 1T and I can't even boot on 6200...
Is that TWR=1 is stable enough for daily for you?


----------



## 7empe

tibcsi0407 said:


> So, I could reduce the VDDQ? For TX I have 1.425 now. It's stable. I am walling at 6000 with my Gskill 6400 kit (AORUS Ultra...), so I tried to tighten it as much as possible. Maybe I can find some extra speed later, this is where I am now:
> View attachment 2565390
> 
> 
> It's really hard to believe that it is capable for C28 1T and I can't even boot on 6200...
> Is that TWR=1 is stable enough for daily for you?


tWR is 4 in fact, because tWRPDEN=35.
Asrock timing configurator says 1.

It is stable even lower with tWRPDEN=32 which is a true tWR 1. In this case tje tWR counter in Asrock TC overturn and says 2^32 - 3


----------



## tibcsi0407

7empe said:


> tWR is 4 in fact, because tWRPDEN=35.
> Asrock timing configurator says 1.
> 
> It is stable even lower with tWRPDEN=32 which is a true tWR 1. In this case tje tWR counter in Asrock TC overturn and says 2^32 - 3


Thanks, I will try it later. What do you think, is it possible to train somehow with my board at 6400? It's capable to 1T with tight timings, I can't believe that it is not possible to find a correct setup to boot it on 6400. 
Should I play with VDD2 step by step?


----------



## 7empe

tibcsi0407 said:


> Thanks, I will try it later. What do you think, is it possible to train somehow with my board at 6400? It's capable to 1T with tight timings, I can't believe that it is not possible to find a correct setup to boot it on 6400.
> Should I play with VDD2 step by step?


It's hard to say, to be honest. It depends on a whole set of the motherboard, cpu and memory sticks you have. I had never played with Aorus before, so I have no experience on how to tweak that board. It may be that you're hitting the 6000 wall due to the board's as it is a 4-dimmer. I've checked QVL for your board and the max rated frequency is 6000 for all the supported memory vendors and configurations.


----------



## tibcsi0407

7empe said:


> It's hard to say, to be honest. It depends on a whole set of the motherboard, cpu and memory sticks you have. I had never played with Aorus before, so I have no experience on how to tweak that board. It may be that you're hitting the 6000 wall due to the board's as it is a 4-dimmer. I've checked QVL for your board and the max rated frequency is 6000 for all the supported memory vendors and configurations.


Yes, but @DanGleeballs was able to reach higher speeds (6400 probably) in AUROS Pro, which is actually almost the same board. He played a lot with the VDD2 and SA.


----------



## Raphie

How much lower can ram VDDQ typically be? is there a rule for that? 0.02v or something? lowering does help with temps if it holds during stability tests


----------



## bada55

6933 mhz 30-40-40-52 2t looks like stable lol


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> How much lower can ram VDDQ typically be? is there a rule for that? 0.02v or something? lowering does help with temps if it holds during stability tests


----------



## 7empe

del


----------



## DanGleeballs

tibcsi0407 said:


> Yes, but @DanGleeballs was able to reach higher speeds (6400 probably) in AUROS Pro, which is actually almost the same board. He played a lot with the VDD2 and SA.


One thing I do remember about that board is that setting VDD even a little higher than VDDQ caused instabilities at any speed.


----------



## Raphie

This is why you have to love Karhu, it being the real test.....


----------



## Lord Alzov




----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Lord Alzov said:


> View attachment 2565426



What're your memory temps?


----------



## tubs2x4

Raphie said:


> This is why you have to love Karhu, it being the real test.....
> View attachment 2565412


Maybe just tone it down one speed…. Your going to wear your ram and cpu out testing constantly haha


----------



## Lord Alzov

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> What're your memory temps?


im watercool


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> im watercool


Take dimm temp out of the equation is the best. Make things much more easy 
Once you watercool ddr5, and b-die ddr4, you are never going back to air cooling 🤓🤟


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Take dimm temp out of the equation is the best. Make things much more easy
> Once you watercool ddr5, and b-die ddr4, you are never going back to air cooling 🤓🤟


my delta 1.5c water dimm


----------



## bscool

Some good deals on the 6600c32 $303.74 kit if someone has been waiting. Other kits also on sale.

Tempted but I already have 2 kits(Kingston and Gskill) that will do 7000c32 to c30 so doubt I would gain anything other than something to play with.



https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32


----------



## Lord Alzov

bscool said:


> Some good deals on the 6600c32 $303.74 kit if someone has been waiting. Other kits also on sale.
> 
> Tempted but I already have 2 kits(Kingston and Gskill) that will do 7000c32 to c30 so doubt I would gain anything other than something to play with.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32


I use 2x gskill 6400 32 and 6600 cl34


----------



## Alessandro Silva

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> These motherboards tend to have residual issues where issues linger until you clear them completely, the hard way. I like to do it the old school dip switches on the CPU socket adapter days way which is one minute unplugged holding that button for life but if it works, you're welcome.


After trying a lots of configs, now I get XMP II 5800Mhz what I think it´s unacceptable. MemTest ok no errors but I can´t go further than this.
Already open a RMA for MoBo and memories sticks, who knows where the problem is maybe it´s even the cpu.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alessandro Silva said:


> After trying a lots of configs, now I get XMP II 5800Mhz what I think it´s unacceptable. MemTest ok no errors but I can´t go further than this.
> Already open a RMA for MoBo and memories sticks, who knows where the problem is maybe it´s even the cpu.



XMP II is not what you should be trying to run XMP I is but, it's cool. It's probably the motherboard more then likely anyway.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> XMP II is not what you should be trying to run XMP I is but, it's cool. It's probably the motherboard more then likely anyway.


I´ve tried everything believe me. Let´s see where it goes. Thanks for the help.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> That's correct, 6400C28 1T with VDD 1.55V and VDDQ 1.45V.
> For command rate only DRAM VDD matters and DRAM VDDQ may stay unchanged. The CR 1T requires also significant increase of CPU VDDQ and in this particular case it was going from 1.25V to 1.50V to keep training consistent. The IMC voltage does not require any tweaking and it sits stable at 1.25V, just like with 2T.
> 
> View attachment 2565389
> 
> 
> Every +2 to tCL allows on -50 mV on VDD at the same frequency.
> Keeping the same tCL allows on -50 mV with every decrease of 200 MT/s at frequency.


Are you reboot stable on this one?


----------



## affxct

Raphie said:


> How much lower can ram VDDQ typically be? is there a rule for that? 0.02v or something? lowering does help with temps if it holds during stability tests


I think officially 150mV before you cause damage to the ICs. I generally stay at 50, but 7empe is a genius, so 100mV is probably totally fine. I also find raising DRAM DQ makes stability worse when it isn't needed so ye 😬.


----------



## affxct

bada55 said:


> 6933 mhz 30-40-40-52 2t looks like stable lol


Magical 0090 BIOS


----------



## asdkj1740

any auto screen cap software recommended for tm5 / karhu??


----------



## Raphie

Shift + windows + s


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> my delta 1.5c water dimm


Have about the same with Supercool ddr5 dimm block


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> Are you reboot stable on this one?


Yup, 10x 2.5G y-cruncher and 30x 8 GB Linpack Extreme stable. Stability is a relative term though


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Yup, 10x 2.5G y-cruncher and 30x 8 GB Linpack Extreme stable. Stability is a relative term though


I ask because I think you also have an M0EAY0 from a post of yours and I know you've said your really crazy 6600-7000 OCs have destabilized over time. I'm really glad if this one is finally rock solid for you. 6400C28 1T with those timings is not slow at all.


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> I ask because I think you also have an M0EAY0 from a post of yours and I know you've said your really crazy 6600-7000 OCs have destabilized over time. I'm really glad if this one is finally rock solid for you. 6400C28 1T with those timings is not slow at all.


That's correct. I step back with frequency, because I was tired of looking for a clue why stable 6800 for a week or two become unstable randomly. I believe this is due my board or IMC. Next step would be to get 13900K and check if it helps with the same board, and if not Z790 will be bought.

6400C28 1T is as fast as 6666C30 2T. It scores around 13500 in GB3 multicore. 2-3 GB less bandwidth though, but come on... over 104 GB/s read is plenty enough


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> That's correct. I step back with frequency, because I was tired of looking for a clue why stable 6800 for a week or two become unstable randomly. I believe this is due my board or IMC. Next step would be to get 13900K and check if it helps with the same board, and if not Z790 will be bought.
> 
> 6400C28 1T is as fast as 6666C30 2T. It scores around 13500 in GB3 multicore. 2-3 GB less bandwidth though, but come on... over 104 GB/s read is plenty enough


I have this:









Not clear on how reboot stable it is, but from my progress logs, this ran after four failed attempts (not too bad at all), so it seems as though I didn't have to wrestle with my board to get it dialed in.

I've been trying really hard to stabilize 6600C30 because it's really close to stable at identical DRAM voltages (not board or IMC voltages obviously). It's at 9100% for the last failure so I think it just needs a slight adjustment in VDD2 to get to 10K+ but I'm wondering if I'm not wasting my time lmao.

If this helps, I grabbed a 12900KF in a straight trade that is an SP 84 (92 P). According to Igor's Labs testing, the 92 P chips seem to have the best D5 performance on average amongst all samples. Funnily enough my chip runs at 0.9V SA for JEDEC and 0.925 for anything above (25mV less than the last chip). The 6133 1T profile I had on my old CPU ran straight to 10K after reloading the settings and after clear CMOS, so I know the IMC had to at least be as good. I definitely could not get 6400 1T on the first chip nor 6600C30 at 1.5/1.45 VDD/VDDQ.

I don't yet know how much the training has changed on this chip. What I can say is that my 6600 testing seems more consistent.

I just stumbled upon bianbio's 0070 and 0090 test BIOSs from April and now I'm curious. 1304u15 has been good to me but I'm wondering...


----------



## 7empe

affxct said:


> I have this:
> View attachment 2565479
> 
> 
> Not clear on how reboot stable it is, but from my progress logs, this ran after four failed attempts (not too bad at all), so it seems as though I didn't have to wrestle with my board to get it dialed in.
> 
> I've been trying really hard to stabilize 6600C30 because it's really close to stable at identical DRAM voltages (not board or IMC voltages obviously). It's at 9100% for the last failure so I think it just needs a slight adjustment in VDD2 to get to 10K+ but I'm wondering if I'm not wasting my time lmao.


Did you try to lower trefi to 65k and then pick trcd/trp at 39? This gives the most performance uplift in terms of latency. Also, you were not stable at tras 28? In my journey anything above 28 did not bring any additional stability gains. Never.

EDIT: Oh, ok you're at 1.5v vdd. This is the reason.


----------



## affxct

7empe said:


> Did you try to lower trefi to 65k and then pick trcd/trp at 39? This gives the most performance uplift in terms of latency. Also, you were not stable at tras 28? In my journey anything above 28 did not bring any additional stability gains. Never.


I used 34 because OCD tRP+tRAS XD, and those settings are LITERALLY the only thing that I could get to run. My sticks cannot do low tRCD and tRP in general. I made different voltage and timing adjustments, but once I hit 41-41 it ran straight through. I can try it but I doubt it would matter. 65280 hasn't brought me much stability improvements throughout any of my testing. The errors occur far too early to blame the tREFI heat factor though. I will say, tREFI might've been what took out my 6600 at 9000%.

Edit: I checked my progress screenshots. Uhm it's unclear tbh. 39-39 failed in the 5000s twice, but with much higher VDDQ. Later on when I had the values I have now, but with 40-40 and 97920 tREFI, it still error'd. You might be right, but I'm not sure if 39-39 can work. Might be worth messing around with it. I was kinda just desperate to get it stable cause I couldn't believe I was doing 6400C30 1T.


----------



## tibcsi0407

That is strange, since it's generated by the PMIC. I will try to lower the VDDQ and see if I have the same issue.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> That is strange, since it's generated by the PMIC. I will try to lower the VDDQ and see if I have the same issue.


What happened?


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> What happened?


He had instability if the VDDQ was lower than VDD.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> He had instability if the VDDQ was lower than VDD.


Wait are you perhaps talking about my reply? I ask because it's the only recent post resembling this. If you are, basically what I found was that stability was better with 1.45 VDDQ vs 1.5. I left VDD at 1.5, but VDDQ needed to be 1.45. 1.5 with tighter timings was a no-go and I assume adding more would also destabilize this. Basically I've found that my Apex and these sticks don't like more than a certain amount of voltage on certain rails and if I add more it just causes too much signal interference so I have to compensate with timings (but only the correct ones can be lowered) and I need to run some higher to prevent instability. This current OC I'm on is very borderline.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> Wait are you perhaps talking about my reply? I ask because it's the only recent post resembling this. If you are, basically what I found was that stability was better with 1.45 VDDQ vs 1.5. I left VDD at 1.5, but VDDQ needed to be 1.45. 1.5 with tighter timings was a no-go and I assume adding more would also destabilize this. Basically I've found that my Apex and these sticks don't like more than a certain amount of voltage on certain rails and if I add more it just causes too much signal interference so I have to compensate with timings (but only the correct ones can be lowered) and I need to run some higher to prevent instability. This current OC I'm on is very borderline.


I have 1.45 for both right now, but I would like reduce the VDDQ, since only VDD needs to be raised for 1T. This DDR5 is like crazy to find the best balance.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> I have 1.45 for both right now, but I would like reduce the VDDQ, since only VDD needs to be raised for 1T. This DDR5 is like crazy to find the best balance.


It seems as though DQ scales with data rate but also not really. Honestly idk XD. I would almost gamble by this point that if 1.45 VDD works on Hynix, you can do 1.4 VDDQ. Samsung doesn't seem to behave this way though. never had any success splitting them.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> It seems as though DQ scales with data rate but also not really. Honestly idk XD. I would almost gamble by this point that if 1.45 VDD works on Hynix, you can do 1.4 VDDQ. Samsung doesn't seem to behave this way though. never had any success splitting them.


I will try it. I am on 1T, so the VDDQ could go lower accordintgto @7empe . That would reduce some heat I believe.
Update: 

Works fine.


----------



## dante`afk

anyone with teamgroup ram and unify-x running 6800+ and could share his setting please?

I'm pretty tight up IRL and don't have the time to spend on finetuning it


----------



## jeiselramos

dante`afk said:


> anyone with teamgroup ram and unify-x running 6800+ and could share his setting please?
> 
> I'm pretty tight up IRL and don't have the time to spend on finetuning it


I'm at 6800C30, trying 6800C28, 6933/7000 BSOD instantly so i give up on them


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> anyone with teamgroup ram and unify-x running 6800+ and could share his setting please?
> 
> I'm pretty tight up IRL and don't have the time to spend on finetuning it


I posted this a long time ago and here it is.


sugi0lover said:


> Another OC result posted at PC forum
> 
> MB : MSI Z690 Unify-X (E7D28IMS.A21)
> BIOS : MSI Global English Forum
> RAM: T-Force 6000 C38 1.25v
> Voltages : SA 1.27v / MC (VDD2) 1.35 / VDDQ TX 1.45v / VDD 1.6v / VDDQ 1.55v
> Additional setup : Memory Bandwidth Enhanced Mode 4 (Latency lowest)
> 
> View attachment 2540841


----------



## jeiselramos

My "old" profile at 6800C30 if i set 1.45 vddq instead of 1.44 let me drop vdd from 1.47 to 1.45.
So I think well let's try 6800C28 and here we go 

6800 28-40-40-28
1.56 VDD 1.51 VDDQ 
VDD2 1.44
VDDQ TX 1.3
SA OFFSET AUTO 0.927

Didn't try lower timings and voltage yet


----------



## 7empe

jeiselramos said:


> My "old" profile at 6800C30 if i set 1.45 vddq instead of 1.44 let me drop vdd from 1.47 to 1.45.
> So I think well let's try 6800C28 and here we go
> 
> 6800 28-40-40-28
> 1.56 VDD 1.51 VDDQ
> VDD2 1.44
> VDDQ TX 1.3
> SA OFFSET AUTO 0.927
> 
> Didn't try lower timings and voltage yet
> View attachment 2565493


And now it's time to run y-cruncher and Linpack


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> And now it's time to run y-cruncher and Linpack


*play Battlefield V/2042 
If that's stable 1-2 hours, it's stable enough.


----------



## SoldierRBT

7empe said:


> And now it's time to run y-cruncher and Linpack


 y-cruncher stress test and TM5/Karhu are enough for daily stability.


----------



## Raphie

@7empe @affxct What should I look for when Karhu fails between 6000% <> 8000% and Y-cruncher 2.5b completes just fine?
Temps stay below 51c. these settings Welcome to the K10KCK (Karhu 10K% coverage Klub!)
but then @ 1.45vdd/1.42vddq as the X wants more volt than the Unify ITX.

Edit, now testing below, beyond 1000%, @ 1.45/1.42 but if it craps out, what would you loosen?


----------



## Raphie

tubs2x4 said:


> Maybe just tone it down one speed…. Your going to wear your ram and cpu out testing constantly haha


I do all my testing at 34x MP undervolted to 1.134v (cpu 55<>65c) ram with active cooling maximum of 51c under full load


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> @7empe @affxct What should I look for when Karhu fails between 6000% <> 8000% and Y-cruncher 2.5b completes just fine?
> Temps stay below 51c. these settings Welcome to the K10KCK (Karhu 10K% coverage Klub!)
> but then @ 1.45vdd/1.42vddq as the X wants more volt than the Unify ITX.
> 
> Edit, now testing below, beyond 1000%, @ 1.45/1.42 but if it craps out, what would you loosen?
> View attachment 2565505


I would try tRFC 340. Alternatively VDD 1.46v.


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> I do all my testing at 34x MP undervolted to 1.134v (cpu 55<>65c) ram with active cooling maximum of 51c under full load


Your hardware won't be used as long as Voyager probe. Don't worry, you won't "wear it"


----------



## Raphie

7empe said:


> I would try tRFC 340. Alternatively VDD 1.46v.


ThnX!

I've got 32-40-40-28 6800Mhz stable @ 1.5v 
It's more I want to try to see if I can pull off some "eco" settings. 
but VDDQ being 0.050v lower is not damaging anything right?


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> ThnX!
> 
> I've got 32-40-40-28 6800Mhz stable @ 1.5v
> It's more I want to try to see if I can pull off some "eco" settings.
> but VDDQ being 0.050v lower is not damaging anything right?


It is safe.


----------



## Raphie

Wow I just raised tRFC to 344 and LOWERED vdd(q) to 1.44 / 1.40 and it's still running 1000%+ 
What should tRFCPB ideally be then? it now sits at 415, if you calculate it, where should it land? around 280?


----------



## ObviousCough

0.95v
1.4v
1.37v

1.56v/1.56v











What can i improve? Adding more clock speed to my p-cores doesn't result in more fps for the game bench i've been doing.


----------



## tubs2x4

Nizzen said:


> *play Battlefield V/2042
> If that's stable 1-2 hours, it's stable enough.


You like bf5 or 2042 better? I was going to try one of them.


----------



## Raphie

ObviousCough said:


> 0.95v
> 1.4v
> 1.37v
> 
> 1.56v/1.56v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can i improve? Adding more clock speed to my p-cores doesn't result in more fps for the game bench i've been doing.


I like the latency, air or water?


----------



## ObviousCough

the sticks have an nfa12 on them and the cpu is in a custom loop.


----------



## Raphie

what temps can you hold full load with the NFA? I notice Karhu instability north of 51c with the g-skill 6400/32
Do you bench open or closed case?


----------



## Nizzen

tubs2x4 said:


> You like bf5 or 2042 better? I was going to try one of them.


Iike BF V more, but I tend to play the newest one more. Just because new 😆

Bf V is more heavy on the cpu actually!

Bf 2042: CTD = too low volt for cpu/cache
Dx error = memory unstable. May be cache unstable too.
Maybe the best game to test memory  More fun than to stare at karhu ramtest count 🤣


----------



## ObviousCough

My sticks never get past 40c in linpack or y-cruncher stress testing.


----------



## Nizzen

How to fix memory temp:
Supercool ddr5 dimm blocks. Direct flow over ic's.
Full nickle.


----------



## ChaosAD

ObviousCough said:


> 0.95v
> 1.4v
> 1.37v
> 
> 1.56v/1.56v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can i improve? Adding more clock speed to my p-cores doesn't result in more fps for the game bench i've been doing.


Can you please run the same setup but with ecores enabled to check the hit in latency?


----------



## tubs2x4

Nizzen said:


> Iike VF V more, but I tend to play the newest one more. Just because new 😆
> 
> Bf V is more heavy on the cpu actually!
> 
> Bf 2042: CTD = too low volt for cpu/cache
> Dx error = memory unstable. May be cache unstable too.
> Maybe the best game to test memory  More fun than to stare at karhu ramtest count 🤣


Do you have ecores and hyper threading disabled for gaming? If so how much improve have you seen?


----------



## Nizzen

tubs2x4 said:


> Do you have ecores and hyper threading disabled for gaming? If so how much improve have you seen?


10fps more in BF 2042.
Like nothing, when playing in 1080p low. With e-cores on and 7000c30 I have 210-220fps 

BF v is 400fps +. Perfect for 360hz tryhard mode 😅


----------



## DanGleeballs

Work in progress. 6666 C32 1T
VDD2 1.380
Sa Auto +.075 (.996)
VDDQ 1.390
VDD 1.520 VDDQ 1.480


----------



## Epileptikks

Hello! I am fairly new to memory overclocking and trying to figure out what I have going on here.

12900k AI overclocked
Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Formula
Corsair Dominator 32GB DDR5 5600(Samsung). Freg manually set to 6200Mhz, primary timings set to XMP defaults, 36/36/36/76 with VDD and VDDQ both set to 1.4V everything else left at default of Auto. I have tested and tested this with memtest and testmem5 etc and its very stable. However, I would like to get my speeds up a bit as they seem a bit lower than most Ive seen on here. Any suggestions?


----------



## newls1

Epileptikks said:


> Hello! I am fairly new to memory overclocking and trying to figure out what I have going on here.
> 
> 12900k AI overclocked
> Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Formula
> Corsair Dominator 32GB DDR5 5600(Samsung). Freg manually set to 6200Mhz, primary timings set to XMP defaults, 36/36/36/76 with VDD and VDDQ both set to 1.4V everything else left at default of Auto. I have tested and tested this with memtest and testmem5 etc and its very stable. However, I would like to get my speeds up a bit as they seem a bit lower than most Ive seen on here. Any suggestions?
> 
> View attachment 2565521
> View attachment 2565523


you absolutely have to set your secondary's and tertiaries. So much will be gained but lots of testing is required and TIME!


----------



## Epileptikks

newls1 said:


> you absolutely have to set your secondary's and tertiaries. So much will be gained but lots of testing is required and TIME!


Alright thanks, that's great to hear! What's the best suggested way to go about it? I have never touched anything other than the primaries before and even that's limited! One at a time? Does anyone have this same ram I could use to get a base?


----------



## Nizzen

Epileptikks said:


> Alright thanks, that's great to hear! What's the best suggested way to go about it? I have never touched anything other than the primaries before and even that's limited! One at a time? Does anyone have this same ram I could use to get a base?


Trfc= 350
Tfaw=16
Trefi= 65554
Roundtrip latency= on

That's level 1 oc out of 10


----------



## Epileptikks

Nizzen said:


> Trfc= 350
> Tfaw=16
> Trefi= 65554
> Roundtrip latency= on
> 
> That's level 1 oc out of 10


Haha, alright. Do I need to mess with any voltage settings from what I already have?


----------



## Nizzen

Epileptikks said:


> Haha, alright. Do I need to mess with any voltage settings from what I already have?


No, just make sure you have direct airflow on dimms


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> Trfc= 350
> Tfaw=16
> Trefi= 65554
> Roundtrip latency= on
> 
> That's level 1 oc out of 10


Trfc 350 on Samsung ICs at 6200? I don't think it works, 400/450 probably


----------



## Epileptikks

Nizzen said:


> No, just make sure you have direct airflow on dimms


No luck with trfc at 350 nor 400, it wouldn't boot into the bios. 450 works! I also see the a trfc 2? Should this be the same? I have them both set to 450. 
The round trip portion I don't see an "on" portion. I see a ton of them though.. All set to auto? This is just part of them in the attachment.
Several "Round trip Latency MCO CHA R1-7" and "Round trip latency MC1 CHA R1-7" and CHB etc...

Looks like a nice little bump! On to step 2 of 10? Haha, thanks again guys


----------



## Epileptikks

jeiselramos said:


> Trfc 350 on Samsung ICs at 6200? I don't think it works, 400/450 probably


Correct, no dice with 350 or 400! 450 works!


----------



## bscool

Epileptikks said:


> No luck with trfc at 350 nor 400, it wouldn't boot into the bios. 450 works! I also see the a trfc 2? Should this be the same? I have them both set to 450.
> The round trip portion I don't see an "on" portion. I see a ton of them though.. All set to auto? This is just part of them in the attachment.
> Several "Round trip Latency MCO CHA R1-7" and "Round trip latency MC1 CHA R1-7" and CHB etc...
> 
> Looks like a nice little bump! On to step 2 of 10? Haha, thanks again guys
> 
> View attachment 2565542


There are also profiles you can try at the top of Extreme Tweaker page "memory presets" with custom profile you can try for your memory type(hynix, samsung etc). I havent looked thru them much but they are there if you want to test.

Just have your current profile saved in case you need to clear cmos if something gives you an issue.


----------



## Epileptikks

bscool said:


> There are also profiles you can try at the top of Extreme Tweaker page "memory presets" with custom profile you can try for your memory type(hynix, samsung etc). I havent looked thru them much but they are there if you want to test.
> 
> Just have your current profile saved in case you need to clear cmos if something gives you an issue.


I had tried the Samsung 6200 one but it wouldnt boot!


----------



## bscool

Epileptikks said:


> I had tried the Samsung 6200 one but it wouldnt boot!


I just looked and on Apex and it sets CR to 1t. Set it to 2t and it might work.

2nd Samsung profile looks better to me. Last one.


----------



## jeiselramos

bscool said:


> I just looked and on Apex and it sets CR to 1t. Set it to 2t and it might work.


And set dram clk to auto


----------



## jeiselramos

Epileptikks said:


> No luck with trfc at 350 nor 400, it wouldn't boot into the bios. 450 works! I also see the a trfc 2? Should this be the same? I have them both set to 450.
> The round trip portion I don't see an "on" portion. I see a ton of them though.. All set to auto? This is just part of them in the attachment.
> Several "Round trip Latency MCO CHA R1-7" and "Round trip latency MC1 CHA R1-7" and CHB etc...
> 
> Looks like a nice little bump! On to step 2 of 10? Haha, thanks again guys
> 
> View attachment 2565542


F9 and search 
Or in the dram training algorithm


----------



## Epileptikks

bscool said:


> I just looked and on Apex and it sets CR to 1t. Set it to 2t and it might work.
> 
> 2nd Samsung profile looks better to me. Last one.



Sorry, I misspoke, it wasn't 6200 it was 6000 and I did as you suggested and I am in!

I did notice it upped the voltage from the 1.4 VDD and VDDQ to 1.435 on both as well. Is there any other adjustments that should/could be made? I tried to change it to 6200 but it didn't seem to like that!


----------



## Epileptikks

jeiselramos said:


> And set dram clk to auto


When I set it to auto, it comes up at 4800Mhz. I have it set to 6000Mhz and its good now, I think.


----------



## jeiselramos

Epileptikks said:


> When I set it to auto, it comes up at 4800Mhz. I have it set to 6000Mhz and its good now, I think.


I mean dram clk in the dram timing control section not dram frequency in extreme tweaker


----------



## bscool

Epileptikks said:


> Sorry, I misspoke, it wasn't 6200 it was 6000 and I did as you suggested and I am in!
> 
> I did notice it upped the voltage from the 1.4 VDD and VDDQ to 1.435 on both as well. Is there any other adjustments that should/could be made? I tried to change it to 6200 but it didn't seem to like that!
> 
> View attachment 2565544
> View attachment 2565546
> View attachment 2565547
> View attachment 2565548
> View attachment 2565549


It is up to you. You might have to bump up voltage a bit to be stable. The only way to know is to try it and test it.

From what I have seen from a few people with the Formula it can clock pretty well for 4 dim MB.


----------



## 7empe

Raphie said:


> Wow I just raised tRFC to 344 and LOWERED vdd(q) to 1.44 / 1.40 and it's still running 1000%+
> What should tRFCPB ideally be then? it now sits at 415, if you calculate it, where should it land? around 280?


With 6800 the tRFC 344 is -38% from the JEDEC value of 160 ns. Using the same percentage offset for tRFCsb would be around 81 ns, and that translate to 276 clock ticks.


----------



## warbucks

jeiselramos said:


> I'm at 6800C30, trying 6800C28, 6933/7000 BSOD instantly so i give up on them


Have you tried using bios A62U2 to hit 7000?


----------



## jeiselramos

warbucks said:


> Have you tried using bios A62U2 to hit 7000?


Watch my 6800C28 profile, I'm using a.62u2.
I can boot 7000C30 easily, the problem is pass Y-cruncher

It stop at 16% consistently

Edit: VPP 1.9 29%


----------



## sblantipodi

do you prefer 100:100 or 100:133 ?
on the Asus BIOS they say that 100:133 overclocks better, is it right?

Is SA 1.25V considered extreme? Why Asus marks in red SA greater than 1.25V?
Strange things is that it marks it in red and then the Auto settings pushes it to 1.25V on my rig with 4 sticks at 5333MHz.


----------



## Nelfhunt

sblantipodi said:


> do you prefer 100:100 or 100:133 ?
> on the Asus BIOS they say that 100:133 overclocks better, is it right?


Nowadays it´s the same. If 133 will be better in future with speeds at 8k+? Who knows.



sblantipodi said:


> Is SA 1.25V considered extreme?


No.


----------



## QXE

DDR5-7000 CL30 with tRTP 1 stable because why not. Probably isnt doing anything and just sets the register

New 12900KS. 1.325 VDDQTX, 1.4 VDD2, 0.9 SA, 1.62 VDD, 1.58 VDDQ.
Edit: Just to clarify, this is set in bios not windows.


----------



## Epileptikks

bscool said:


> It is up to you. You might have to bump up voltage a bit to be stable. The only way to know is to try it and test it.
> 
> From what I have seen from a few people with the Formula it can clock pretty well for 4 dim MB.


I tried upping the VDD and VDDQ quite a bit to use 6200 but it fails to load windows.


----------



## bscool

Epileptikks said:


> I tried upping the VDD and VDDQ quite a bit to use 6200 but it fails to load windows.


It is probably a timing that needs to be loosened then. Unless you like spending hours testing I would leave it. You will have to go thru different timings to test which is not letting it boot and then when it does test if itis stable.

Also I have seen some frequencys wont boot if vdd and vddq/tx are the same they might need to be different. Not sure if the Formula is like that but again time consuming to do and little to gain unless you just like messing with it for a hobby/benchmarks.


----------



## z390e

I've come to the jarring conclusion that I am bloody incompetent at RAM OC and I know nearly nothing and its infuriating. 

I will return when I have read this entire thread.


----------



## Raphie

passed lazy 6800 setting @ 1.45vdd 1.42vddq
now tightening further to see how far we can take this without upping voltage
(got 6800 32-40-40-28 stable at 1.5vdd /1.47vddq as well. This is really the "eco" performance experiment)


----------



## QXE

Raphie said:


> passed lazy 6800 setting @ 1.45vdd 1.42vddq
> now tightening further to see how far we can take this without upping voltage
> (got 6800 32-40-40-28 stable at 1.5vdd /1.47vddq as well. This is really the "eco" performance experiment)
> View attachment 2565618
> 
> View attachment 2565617


This could certainly be tighter, primaries of 30-39-40-28 shouldn't be too hard. RTP of 6-12, tRDRD_sg of 11, tWRWR_sg of 9, and tWRRD_sg and dg of 56/44 should be pretty easy.


----------



## Raphie

QXE said:


> This could certainly be tighter, primaries of 30-39-40-28 shouldn't be too hard. RTP of 6-12, tRDRD_sg of 11, tWRWR_sg of 9, and tWRRD_sg and dg of 56/44 should be pretty easy.


Thnx, but primaries won’t hold at the same voltage, cl30 needs at least 1.52vdd, the secondary don’t pass y-cruncher at 1.45v
tWRWR-sg can't lower because of temps, I don't want to worry about the occasional 55c+ on ram, lower than 13 will then crap out. 
57 holds, 56 needs more voltage.
I need to test the secondaries one by one, but pretty sure they’ll ask more voltage. As I’ve been there dialing in my 6800 1.5vdd profile.
goal here is really to hold the line @ 1.45vdd, preferably even lower. I’ll test your suggestions and see what holds.
On the Unify ITX people do above @ 1.4vdd, the X is more voltage hungry.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Thnx, but primaries won’t hold at the same voltage, cl30 needs at least 1.52vdd, the secondary don’t pass y-cruncher at 1.45v
> tWRWR-sg can't lower because of temps, I don't want to worry about the occasional 55c+ on ram, lower than 13 will then crap out.
> 57 holds, 56 needs more voltage.
> I need to test the secondaries one by one, but pretty sure they’ll ask more voltage. As I’ve been there dialing in my 6800 1.5vdd profile.
> goal here is really to hold the line @ 1.45vdd, preferably even lower. I’ll test your suggestions and see what holds.
> On the Unify ITX people do above @ 1.4vdd, the X is more voltage hungry.


Are you sure aren't your ram?


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> Are you sure aren't your ram?


What do you mean?


----------



## sblantipodi

z390e said:


> I've come to the jarring conclusion that I am bloody incompetent at RAM OC and I know nearly nothing and its infuriating.
> 
> I will return when I have read this entire thread.


at the end of the thread when you have read the entire thread, you will continue to be ignorant on that matter.
in this thread there is no useful tips for RAM OC, most of the guys here just spend time trying various settings without really knowing what they does.

most of the conclusions here are made upon incorrect ideas, someone says that a BIOS is more stable than another, someone says that some temps are better than the other, someone says that some voltages helps here and there,

but most of that people are just hitting a new wall. the DDR5 wall on some Asus boards with clear design flaws.

as I said many times with DDR5 and the Asus garbage boards you can be stable for days of testing and crash the day after. 
with this "kind of problems" it is nearly impossible to understand what helps and what not.


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> What do you mean?


Maybe he means error because of heat


----------



## Raphie

Ahh, yes I want not to worry @55c if it gets there. 13 allows me to cater for that, 11 or 9 would crap out. So yes, that's on purpose. I'm reserving some headroom for heat if you will.


----------



## tibcsi0407

sblantipodi said:


> at the end of the thread when you have read the entire thread, you will continue to be ignorant on that matter.
> in this thread there is no useful tips for RAM OC, most of the guys here just spend time trying various settings without really knowing what they does.
> 
> most of the conclusions here are made upon incorrect ideas, someone says that a BIOS is more stable than another, someone says that some temps are better than the other, someone says that some voltages helps here and there,
> 
> but most of that people are just hitting a new wall. the DDR5 wall on some Asus boards with clear design flaws.
> 
> as I said many times with DDR5 and the Asus garbage boards you can be stable for days of testing and crash the day after.
> with this "kind of problems" it is nearly impossible to understand what helps and what not.


There are some useful info. Like this one from @sugi0lover 
This helped me to understand the relation between timings.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> What do you mean?


I mean I can't do WRWR 9 WRRD 56/42 TRRD L 4 at the same voltage with C30 but yes with C28.
And where did you read the Unify ITX require less voltage? IF his kit run 6800C32 at 1.47 could be temperature related or just a better bin


----------



## CptSpig

z390e said:


> I've come to the jarring conclusion that I am bloody incompetent at RAM OC and I know nearly nothing and its infuriating.
> 
> I will return when I have read this entire thread.


Read the spoiler first and then DDR4 to DDR5. This will help.




Spoiler: Memory Basics






> Memory Presets: This is the place to start when overclocking memory. Identify the ICs used on the memory modules and select the relevant profile. We've put a tremendous amount of time configuring settings to get the most from each memory type. Once the profile is selected, various parameters in the DRAM timing section will be applied for you. From there, manual tweaking is possible as required.
> 
> Maximus Tweak: Leave on auto unless experiencing instability. Mode 1 may allow more compatibility, while Mode 2 is better for performance and some memory modules. Auto defaults to Mode 2.
> 
> Memory timings will automatically be offset according to memory module SPD and memory frequency. Should you wish to make manual adjustments, the primary settings and third timings are the most important for overall memory performance. Most timings are set in DRAM clock cycles, hence a lower value results in a more aggressive setting (unless otherwise stated).
> 
> As always, performance increases from memory tuning are marginal and are generally only noticeable during synthetic benchmarks. Either way, voltage adjustments to VDIMM, VCCIO-D, Cache Voltage and to a lesser extent CPU Core Voltage & VCCIO-A may be necessary to facilitate tighter timings.
> 
> Primary Timings
> 
> CAS: Column Address Strobe, defines the time it takes for data to be ready for burst after a read command is issued. As CAS factors in more transactions than other primary timings, it is considered to be the most important in relation to random memory read performance. (See third timing section for further info on important timings).
> 
> To calculate the actual time period denoted by the number of clock cycles set for CAS we can use the following formula:
> 
> tCAS in Nano seconds=(CAS*2000)/Memory Frequency
> 
> This same formula can be applied to all memory timings that are set in DRAM clock cycles.
> 
> DRAM RAS TO CAS Latency: Also known as tRCD. Defines the time it takes to complete a row access after an activate command is issued to a rank of memory. This timing is of secondary importance behind CAS as memory is divided into rows and columns (each row contains 1024 column addresses). Once a row has been accessed, multiple CAS requests can be sent to the row the read or write data. While a row is "open" it is referred to as an open page. Up to eight pages can be open at any one time on a rank (a rank is one side of a memory module) of memory.
> 
> DRAM RAS# PRE Time: Also known as tRP. Defines the number of DRAM clock cycles it takes to precharge a row after a page close command is issued in preparation for the next row access to the same physical bank. As multiple pages can be open on a rank before a page close command is issued the impact of tRP towards memory performance is not as prevalent as CAS or tRCD - although the impact does increase if multiple page open and close requests are sent to the same memory IC and to a lesser extent rank (there are 8 physical ICs per rank and only one page can be open per IC at a time, making up the total of 8 open pages per rank simultaneously).
> 
> DRAM RAS Active Time: Also known as tRAS. This setting defines the number of DRAM cycles that elapse before a precharge command can be issued. The minimum clock cycles tRAS should be set to is the sum of CAS+tRCD+tRTP.
> 
> DRAM Command Mode: Also known as Command Rate. Specifies the number of DRAM clock cycles that elapse between issuing commands to the DIMMs after a chip select. The impact of Command Rate on performance can vary. For example, if most of the data requested by the CPU is in the same row, the impact of Command Rate becomes negligible. If however the banks in a rank have no open pages, and multiple banks need to be opened on that rank or across ranks, the impact of Command Rate increases.
> 
> Most DRAM module densities will operate fine with a 1N Command Rate. Memory modules containing older DRAM IC types may however need a 2N Command Rate.
> 
> Latency Boundary A sets timings for the main set of Third timings, lower is faster and tighter.
> Latency Boundary B sets timings for the secondary set of Third timings, lower is faster and tighter.
> 
> Manipulating Latency Boundary A and B, negates the need for setting third timings manually, unless granular control of an individual setting is required. For most users, we recommend tuning via the Latency Boundary settings. Advanced users who are tuning for Super Pi 32M may wish to set timings manually instead.
> 
> Latency Compensator when enabled tries to make opportunistic latency compensation that may increase performance or smoothen out the Memory training process. So try and compare overclocking and performance with it enabled and disabled. You can also trying enabling it when the whole system hangs at '55' or '03' or '69' when pushing tight timings with high frequencies.
> 
> Secondary Timings
> 
> DRAM RAS to RAS Delay:Also known as tRRD (activate to activate delay). Specifies the number of DRAM clock cycles between consecutive Activate (ACT) commands to different banks of memory on the same physical rank. The minimum spacing allowed at the chipset level is 4 DRAM clocks.
> 
> DRAM Ref Cycle Time: Also known as tRFC. Specifies the number of DRAM clocks that must elapse before a command can be issued to the DIMMs after a DRAM cell refresh.
> 
> DRAM Refresh Interval: The charge stored in DRAM cells diminishes over time and must be refreshed to avoid losing data. tREFI specifies the maximum time that can elapse before all DRAM cells are refreshed. The value for tREFI is calculated according to module density. A higher number than default is more aggressive as the cells will be refreshed less frequently.
> 
> During a refresh, the memory is not available for read or write transactions. Setting the memory to refresh more often than required can impact scores negatively in memory sensitive benchmarks. It can be worth tweaking the refresh interval to a larger value for improved performance. For 24/7 use, this setting is best left at default, as real world applications do not benefit to a noticeable degree by increasing this value.
> 
> DRAM Write Recovery Time: Defines the number of clock cycles that must elapse between a memory write operation and a precharge command. Most DRAM configurations will operate with a setting of 9 clocks up to DDR3-2500. Change to 12~16 clocks if experiencing instability.
> 
> DRAM Read to Precharge Time: Also known as tRTP. Specifies the spacing between the issuing of a read command and tRP (Precharge) when a read is followed by a page close request. The minimum possible spacing is limited by DDR3 burst length which is 4 DRAM clocks.
> 
> Most 2GB memory modules will operate fine with a setting of 4~6 clocks up to speeds of DDR3-2000 (depending upon the number of DIMMs used in tandem). High performance 4GB DIMMs (DDR3-2000+) can handle a setting of 4 clocks provided you are running 8GB of memory in total and that the processor memory controller is capable.
> 
> If running 8GB DIMMs a setting below 6 clocks at speeds higher than DDR3-1600 may be unstable so increase as required.
> 
> DRAM Four Activate Window: Also known as tFAW. This timing specifies the number of DRAM clocks that must elapse before more than four Activate commands can be sent to the same rank. The minimum spacing is tRRD*4, and since we know that the minimum value of tRRD is 4 clocks, we know that the minimum internal value for tFAW at the chipset level is 16 DRAM clocks.
> 
> As the effects of tFAW spacing are only realised after four Activates to the same DIMM, the overall performance impact of tFAW is not large, however, benchmarks like Super Pi 32m can benefit by setting tFAW to the minimum possible value.
> 
> As with tRRD, setting tFAW below its lowest possible value will result in the memory controller reverting to the lowest possible value (16 DRAM clocks or tRRD * 4).
> 
> DRAM Write to Read Delay: Also known as tWTR. Sets the number of DRAM clocks to wait before issuing a read command after a write command. The minimum internal spacing is 4 clocks. As with tRTP this value may need to be increased according to memory density and memory frequency.
> 
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse width: This setting can be left on Auto for all overclocking. CKE defines the minimum number of clocks that must elapse before the system can transition from normal operating to low power state and vice versa.
> 
> CAS Write Latency: CWL is column access time for write commands to the DIMMs. Typically, CWL is needs to be set at or +1 over the read CAS value. High performance DIMMs can run CWL equal to or up to 3 clocks below read CAS for benchmarking (within functional limits of the DIMMs and chipset).


Quote:


> Third Timings
> 
> On modern architectures like Haswell, page access is optimized such that back to back read timings in the third timing section can have a bigger impact on performance than primary settings. Memory interleaving and addressing optimization leads to the possibility of lots back to back read and writes (page hits) rather than random access (page misses).
> 
> In layman terms, the best way to describe this is to use the analogy of a hard drive. If data is fragmented, the head needs to move back and forth over the platter reading small bits of data. Similarly on memory, this would mean that CAS, wCL, tRCD, tRP and tRAS would factor more often - opening and closing memory pages across the DIMMs to read or write parts of data.
> 
> If data is not fragmented, the head can seek an area of the disc and read the data without needed to move back and forth. On a crude level, memory interleaving works in a similar way, ensuring that data is arranged into rows across ICs so that pages don't have to be open and closed as often to access it - this saves on excessive primary timing command requirements. That's why some of the back to back read and write timings in the third timing section of UEFI have a bigger impact on performance than the primary timings which were more important on older platforms.
> 
> If the required data is in sequence, CAS can be performed to access it and subsequent requests can be spaced by tRDRD (as low as 4 clocks). A lot of these requests can be sent before a page close request is required - which relies on the primary timing set (tRAS then tRP (tRC must elapse) followed by tRCD and then CAS). That's why the third timing spacing has more impact in memory sensitive benchmarks (memory frequency and other factors aside).
> 
> tRDRD: Sets the delay between consecutive read requests to the same page. From a performance perspective, this setting is best kept at 4 clocks. Relax only if the memory is not stable or the system will not POST. Very few memory modules can handle a setting of 4 clocks at speeds above DDR3-2400 so you may need to relax accordingly, although the performance hit may negate any gains in frequency.
> 
> tRDRD_dr: Sets the delay between consecutive read requests where the subsequent read is on a different rank. A setting of 6 clocks or higher is required for most DIMMs.
> 
> tRDRD (dd): Sets the delay between consecutive read requests where the subsequent read is on a different DIMM. A setting of 6 clocks or higher is required for most DIMMs.
> 
> tWRRD: Sets the delay between a write transaction and read command. The minimum value we recommend is tWCL+tWTR.
> 
> Auto is preferred from a stability perspective, while setting as close to the minimum value as possible is best from a performance perspective. For Super Pi 32m, try tWCl+tWTR+2 as a starting point. If that is stable, then try -1 clock, if not, add+1 and repeat until stable.
> 
> tWRRD_dr: Sets the delay between a write transaction and read command where the subsequent read is on a different rank. Keeping this setting as close to 4 clocks as possible is advised, although it will need to be relaxed to 6+ clocks at high operating frequency or when using high density memory configurations.
> 
> tWRRD_dd: Sets the delay between a write transaction and read command where the subsequent read is on a different DIMM. Keeping this setting as close to 4 clocks as possible is advised, although it will need to be relaxed to 6+ clocks at high operating frequency or when using high density memory configurations.
> 
> Dec_WRD: May give a small performance increase at speeds lower than DDR3-1600 with CAS 6. Can be left on Auto for all other use.
> 
> The following timings have a minimum spacing of Read CAS. The default rules space these settings well, so adjustment should not be required unless as a last resort. Setting equal to CAS is stressful on the DIMMs and IMC. Voltages may need to be increased to run the minimum value that POSTs.
> 
> tRDWR: Sets the delay from a read to a write transaction.
> 
> tRDWR_dr: Sets the delay from a read to a write transaction where the write is on a different rank.
> 
> tRDWR_dd: Sets the delay from a read to a write transaction where the write is on a different DIMM.
> 
> MISC
> 
> MRC Fast BOOT: When enabled, bypasses memory retraining on warm resets. Disabled retrains memory to counter any drift due to thermal changes. At higher memory frequencies the retraining process can interfere with system stability, hence this setting is enabled with auto by default. Should not need changing from Auto unless the system becomes unstable.
> 
> DRAM CLK Period: Allows the application of different memory timing settings than default for the operating frequency. Each number in the scale corresponds to a DRAM divider. The lowest setting being DDR3-800. Ordinarily, the timing set applied automatically tracks the DRAM ratio selected. This setting allows us to force timing sets from different dividers to be used with the selected DRAM ratio.
> 
> A setting of 14 is recommended for high DRAM operating frequencies. For all other use, leave on Auto.
> 
> Scrambler Setting: Alternates data patterns to minimize the impact of load transients and noise on the memory bus. A setting of optimized is recommended for most configurations.
> 
> DQ, DQS and CMD Sense Amplifier: Alters the bias on signal lines to avoid mis-reads. The Sense Amplifiers work good at Auto which lets BIOS decide the best for each. Reducing usually is better. Reducing DQ Sense and CMD Sense to -1~ -6 may stabilize things further when high VDIMM is used (2.2+v for example)
> 
> DRAM Swizzling Bit 0, 1 ,2, 3:
> 
> Enable Bit 0 for best OC most times, but disabling may help uncommon DRAM setups.
> 
> Enable Bit 1 for best OC most times, but disabling may sometimes help some 4GB DRAM modules.
> 
> Disabling Bit 2 helps high frequency overclocking at the expense of performance. Enabling improves performance but may need several tries to boot when frequencies are high and timings are tight. You can retry training when the system hangs at '55' or '03' or '69' by pressing reset here and waiting for the rig to complete a full reset.
> Enabling Bit 3 usually helps overclocking and stability unless the IMC is unstable at cold temperatures (Ln2 cooling) in which case try disabling.
> 
> RAW MHz Aid: May help to improve stability when using DRAM ratios above DDR3-3100 at the expense of performance.
> 
> IC Optimizer: IC Optimizer sets background invisible tweaks for the various DRAM ICs. Note that these were fine-tuned with specific DRAM and CPUs so it may help or harm depending on the likeness of the ones on your hands. So try with Auto first, then try with the one for your ICs and compare. These will get updated over time in future BIOSes.






DDR4 to DDR5


----------



## CptSpig

sblantipodi said:


> at the end of the thread when you have read the entire thread, you will continue to be ignorant on that matter.
> in this thread there is no useful tips for RAM OC, most of the guys here just spend time trying various settings without really knowing what they does.
> 
> most of the conclusions here are made upon incorrect ideas, someone says that a BIOS is more stable than another, someone says that some temps are better than the other, someone says that some voltages helps here and there,


I agree with the points above but not with anything below your quote. In the DDR4 to DDR5 article in the post above this sums it up for me:

If there’s one takeaway from this article, it’s that memory overclocking cannot be rushed. It can be a slow process, and you must be willing to devote some time to the bios if you want to take the XMP training wheels off. It’s essential to test everything along the way and use your best judgment. If increasing the frequency 200 MHz requires a voltage increase from 1.20 V to 1.35 V, then it’s probably not worth the added system stress to do so. When done right, though, most memory kits have enough overclocking headroom to increase performance with minimal voltage increase. The most crucial aspect of overclocking is to have fun with it and enjoy the process. We encourage you to enter the bios and explore the wonderful world of memory overclocking!


----------



## db000

CptSpig said:


> I agree with the points above but not with anything below your quote. In the DDR4 to DDR5 article in the post above this sums it up for me:
> 
> If there’s one takeaway from this article, it’s that memory overclocking cannot be rushed. It can be a slow process, and you must be willing to devote some time to the bios if you want to take the XMP training wheels off. It’s essential to test everything along the way and use your best judgment. If increasing the frequency 200 MHz requires a voltage increase from 1.20 V to 1.35 V, then it’s probably not worth the added system stress to do so. When done right, though, most memory kits have enough overclocking headroom to increase performance with minimal voltage increase. The most crucial aspect of overclocking is to have fun with it and enjoy the process. We encourage you to enter the bios and explore the wonderful world of memory overclocking!


----------



## jeiselramos

6800C28 tight with the same voltages


----------



## Nizzen

jeiselramos said:


> 6800C28 tight with the same voltages
> View attachment 2565714


Nice job 
7kc30 next?


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> Nice job
> 7kc30 next?


I hope


----------



## newls1

decided to readjust my mem OC as I was bored. Still on same old MSI bios for this Unify X but so far (Crossing fingers) got stability with 6946MT/s speed in memtestpro @ 25% coverage (Still going) but just wanted to post this up and see what you all think. How are my voltages and timings? What can I improve upon? Thank you


----------



## olegdjus

my random hynix OEM is better than my own g.skill 6400c32


----------



## Lord Alzov

EZ 7000CL28


----------



## newls1

Lord Alzov said:


> EZ 7000CL28
> View attachment 2565758


what voltages?


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> what voltages?


What temps


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> What temps


30с


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> 30с


Nice job! 😎🤙


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Nice job! 😎🤙


a litle bit improve


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

*Yo guys* F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5K - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

is it problem that there is no touching thermalpad on this one ? I will be putting 1500rpm SW3 fan onto rams


----------



## jeiselramos

I'm done for this generation, 6933/7000 C28/C30 is very difficult for my combo even to pass ycruncher 5 times in a row.
This is my Daily until RPL, passed everything TM5 / Karhu / LinX even on the latest A.65 Bios
6800 28-40-40-28
1.52 VDD/VDDQ
1.3 VDDQTX
1.44 VDD2
0.927 SA


----------



## Raphie

Very nice finish then, that’s why “stable” is so difficult. Doing 90mins of TM5 means nothing, if you can’t pass Y-cruncher 5x or Karhu crapping out at 9000% 

but above is really nice, going to copy it, but I’ve got the overpriced / underbinned g-skill 6400/32 should had bought the teamgroup as well.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Very nice finish then, that’s why “stable” is so difficult. Doing 90mins of TM5 means nothing, if you can’t pass Y-cruncher 5x or Karhu crapping out at 9000%
> 
> but above is really nice, going to copy it, but I’ve got the overpriced / underbinned g-skill 6400/32 should had bought the teamgroup as well.


Yep, I always did 5 loop of LinX 10Gb and 5 ycruncher 2.5b, if stable here I launched tm5.
I don't event start any memory stress test if it didn't pass both.
Then Karhu and final stress 40 loops of LinX


----------



## Raphie

Thorough man!


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> I'm done for this generation, 6933/7000 C28/C30 is very difficult for my combo even to pass ycruncher 5 times in a row.
> This is my Daily until RPL, passed everything TM5 / Karhu / LinX even on the latest A.65 Bios
> 6800 28-40-40-28
> 1.52 VDD/VDDQ
> 1.3 VDDQTX
> 1.44 VDD2
> 0.927 SA
> View attachment 2565793


Can you post a dragonball screenshot?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Can you post a dragonball screenshot?


----------



## QXE

Lord Alzov said:


> a litle bit improve
> View attachment 2565786


Well done. What voltages were used for this?


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> View attachment 2565796


Crazy! can't even post CL30 with these settings.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Crazy! can't even post CL30 with these settings.


If i leave everything on auto me too, i figured out my CPU loves low VDDQTX and doesn't like high SA


If you want tomorrow I post dragonball of my 6800C30


----------



## Raphie

Oh yes pls  Would really appreciate that.


----------



## KedarWolf

I think some people have trouble booting if they manually set the IOLs and RTLs.

A trick I learned from older Intel builds, is to set your RAM divider low, like 3800 or 4000, reboot, see what the IOLs and RTLs are, they'll be low.

Raise or lower your RAM speed until you get around the ones you are shooting for.

Manually set them at what they are on the lower divider, raise your RAM speeds again and then your PC should boot as long as the IOLs and RTLs aren't too low.

There are set settings they need to be at to get your PC to boot and if you set them wrong, the PC often won't boot.

Lowering the RAM divider finds the lower settings that work and gets your PC to boot setting them manually.


----------



## newls1

please can someone help me stabilize 7000MHz MT/s... Ive spent the past few hours on this since flashing to this A65 MSI UNIFY X bios and im losing control!! HEre are my voltages and such, please if you can offer up advice on what i need to change... Thank you so much for your time and help!!


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> please can someone help me stabilize 7000MHz MT/s... Ive spent the past few hours on this since flashing to this A65 MSI UNIFY X bios and im losing control!! HEre are my voltages and such, please if you can offer up advice on what i need to change... Thank you so much for your time and help!!


Many need 1.55v to do 7000mhz, and some need up to 1.4v imc


----------



## newls1

which voltage does msi call IMC?... is 1.55v to much for the ram.. It is cooled by many fans however


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> which voltage does msi call IMC?... is 1.55v to much for the ram.. It is cooled by many fans however


1 55 is no problem if cooled  Looks like you have no problem on cooling. Is it vdd2 on Msi?

Edit: mc= vdd2


----------



## QXE

newls1 said:


> please can someone help me stabilize 7000MHz MT/s... Ive spent the past few hours on this since flashing to this A65 MSI UNIFY X bios and im losing control!! HEre are my voltages and such, please if you can offer up advice on what i need to change... Thank you so much for your time and help!!


7000 mbps is very hard to do, and might even need up to 1.6 VDD. Try like 1.6 VDD, 1.55 VDDQ, 1.4 VDD2.


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> 1 55 is no problem if cooled  Looks like you have no problem on cooling. Is it vdd2 on Msi?
> 
> Edit: mc= vdd2


Ok, so update.... couple things I found while @ 6950MT/s and trying to find stability. I noticed mem strap was @ 133, I changed primaries from 32/40/40/28 to 32/42/42/66 and still no go. also @ 1.515vdimm and the other voltages in pic above. I switched back to the 100MHz strap @ 6810 back with my 32/40/40/28 1.50Vdimm and all is stable as per memtest pro so far. Ill include a current pic of my mem settings currently so you can see 100% my settings. 
Im hoping I can have a go again with the next bump in mem speed but need assistance in what voltages to adjust and does the 100mhz mem strap make a difference compared to the 133mhz strap?? Would really like to stabilze 6933 or 7000 if possible but dont want to pump uncoolable amounts of heat in my sticks... they are only aircooled with 2 140mm fans and I have 2 420mm rads above them.. so lots of fresh cold airflow.


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> I'm done for this generation, 6933/7000 C28/C30 is very difficult for my combo even to pass ycruncher 5 times in a row.
> This is my Daily until RPL, passed everything TM5 / Karhu / LinX even on the latest A.65 Bios
> 6800 28-40-40-28
> 1.52 VDD/VDDQ
> 1.3 VDDQTX
> 1.44 VDD2
> 0.927 SA
> View attachment 2565793


Nice job, my Kingston craps at 6800C30. I agree with you, on Unify-X 6933/7000 is really, really hard. I can boot even 7200, but no chance stabilising 6933/7000.


----------



## bigfootnz

newls1 said:


> please can someone help me stabilize 7000MHz MT/s... Ive spent the past few hours on this since flashing to this A65 MSI UNIFY X bios and im losing control!! HEre are my voltages and such, please if you can offer up advice on what i need to change... Thank you so much for your time and help!!


I would not waste too much time with 6933/7000 on Unify-X, as it is really hard. Yes, few people has managed to do it, but many if us have failed to do it.


----------



## newls1

ok, solid advice. I was actually thinking to myself why pump more voltage into ram for such a small increase of FPS for games... if any at all. I see so many people post 7000MHz speed screenies but i guess they are using high voltage and watercooling i guess. Ill just stay at 6825 where im at. Thank you


----------



## QXE

newls1 said:


> Ok, so update.... couple things I found while @ 6950MT/s and trying to find stability. I noticed mem strap was @ 133, I changed primaries from 32/40/40/28 to 32/42/42/66 and still no go. also @ 1.515vdimm and the other voltages in pic above. I switched back to the 100MHz strap @ 6810 back with my 32/40/40/28 1.50Vdimm and all is stable as per memtest pro so far. Ill include a current pic of my mem settings currently so you can see 100% my settings.
> Im hoping I can have a go again with the next bump in mem speed but need assistance in what voltages to adjust and does the 100mhz mem strap make a difference compared to the 133mhz strap?? Would really like to stabilze 6933 or 7000 if possible but dont want to pump uncoolable amounts of heat in my sticks... they are only aircooled with 2 140mm fans and I have 2 420mm rads above them.. so lots of fresh cold airflow.


try voltages up to 1.6VDD. if its actively cooled it wont hurt trying.


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> ok, solid advice. I was actually thinking to myself why pump more voltage into ram for such a small increase of FPS for games... if any at all. I see so many people post 7000MHz speed screenies but i guess they are using high voltage and watercooling i guess. Ill just stay at 6825 where im at. Thank you


2022 OC be like:
Aio on cpu, air on gpu, full watercooling on Dimms 
Maximum 1080p gaming performance 🤓


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> 2022 OC be like:
> Aio on cpu, air on gpu, full watercooling on Dimms
> Maximum 1080p gaming performance 🤓


why was I quoted on that? I have $1000's into my watercooling setup and inventory on hand. I have never used nor ever will use a AIO, so im confused on why you quoted me?


----------



## newls1

Please help me get this stuff straight!! These memory voltages.... what does what? This is how hwinfo reads out info for my MSI Unify X:
VDDQ-TX - 1.400v 
CPU VDD2 - 1.400v
VDD - 1.515v (this is mem voltage I understand this one)
VDDQ - 1.515

How do I know what voltage to adjust for what?


----------



## Lord Alzov

newls1 said:


> please can someone help me stabilize 7000MHz MT/s... Ive spent the past few hours on this since flashing to this A65 MSI UNIFY X bios and im losing control!! HEre are my voltages and such, please if you can offer up advice on what i need to change... Thank you so much for your time and help!!


YOu use EXTREME LOW VOLTAGE LOL.
U need ATLEAST 1.6+ on memory for GOOD bin memory like GSKILL 6600 cl34 XMP. OR u need DOLLAR for BIN best ram> best IMC> BEST BOARD.
I use 1.65v for 7000cl28. 7000cl30 like 1.6..... ITS ON WATERCOOL. U want 7000 with 1.5 on air lol.


----------



## Lord Alzov

newls1 said:


> Please help me get this stuff straight!! These memory voltages.... what does what? This is how hwinfo reads out info for my MSI Unify X:
> VDDQ-TX - 1.400v
> CPU VDD2 - 1.400v
> VDD - 1.515v (this is mem voltage I understand this one)
> VDDQ - 1.515
> 
> How do I know what voltage to adjust for what?


My settings SA 1.42( LOW= BSOD) VDDQ TX 1.46 VDD2 1.48 VDD 1.65 VDDQ 1.65. Its for 7000 cl28 full stable all test.


----------



## jeiselramos

newls1 said:


> Please help me get this stuff straight!! These memory voltages.... what does what? This is how hwinfo reads out info for my MSI Unify X:
> VDDQ-TX - 1.400v
> CPU VDD2 - 1.400v
> VDD - 1.515v (this is mem voltage I understand this one)
> VDDQ - 1.515
> 
> How do I know what voltage to adjust for what?


I started with low VDDQ TX like 1.2, it helps too boot higher frequency, if too high isn't always better and have a sweetspot.
CPU Vdd2 helps to increase stability but has a sweetspot
Vddq i you have to play with that, some combination prefer 50/100mv apart from Vdd other equal


----------



## QXE

Lord Alzov said:


> My settings SA 1.42( LOW= BSOD) VDDQ TX 1.46 VDD2 1.48 VDD 1.65 VDDQ 1.65. Its for 7000 cl28 full stable all test.


Those voltages are insane for 7000 2T lmao


----------



## snakeeyes111

6800 Samsung 
32 38 38 also stable in all Tests, but i get random freeze in idle. 39 39 fix this Problem!

VDD2: 1.18v
VDDQ TX: 1.3v
SA: 0,952v
VDD/VDDQ: 1.5v


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> Those voltages are insane for 7000 2T lmao


What voltage do you run for 7000c28 max tweaked?


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> Ok, so update.... couple things I found while @ 6950MT/s and trying to find stability. I noticed mem strap was @ 133, I changed primaries from 32/40/40/28 to 32/42/42/66 and still no go. also @ 1.515vdimm and the other voltages in pic above. I switched back to the 100MHz strap @ 6810 back with my 32/40/40/28 1.50Vdimm and all is stable as per memtest pro so far. Ill include a current pic of my mem settings currently so you can see 100% my settings.
> Im hoping I can have a go again with the next bump in mem speed but need assistance in what voltages to adjust and does the 100mhz mem strap make a difference compared to the 133mhz strap?? Would really like to stabilze 6933 or 7000 if possible but dont want to pump uncoolable amounts of heat in my sticks... they are only aircooled with 2 140mm fans and I have 2 420mm rads above them.. so lots of fresh cold airflow.


Going to stay at this mem speed until 7000MT/s + ram sticks come out. So for the time being, if you can take a look at my voltages in the attached pic, you think I can lower voltages like SA Voltage, VDDQ-TX that i have at 1.400, SA @ 1.20, you think i can drop those some and still maintain stability?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Oh yes pls  Would really appreciate that.


 Try this .ocb





6800C30.ocb







drive.google.com





If it doesn't boot increase CPU VDDQ with 50mv steps
Once it boot try to tweak VDD2 or DRAM VDD/VDDQ to make it stable


----------



## Raphie

It's very simple, for us being on air

6600 32-39-39-28 can run stock voltage (1.39 vdd)
6800 can run 1.45vdd @ 32-41-41-28, but already needs 1.5v @ 32-40-40-28
6900 can run 34-42-42-28 @ 1.55 (not advised on air)
7000 needs 1.58 at least (not advised on air)

Your mileage may vary, depending on how far you want to tighten your secondaries and tertiaries.
Now, 1.45v with Karhu on extreme airflow forced cooling will get your ram to @51c
In a closed case with 80/120/140mm fan it will go mid 50ties or higher easily.
just forgetting testmem and all other things people consider stable. Above 50c you'll get inconsistent results on Hynix B die.
IRL 6800 is the sweetspot where 32-40-40 will give you 108GB AIDA read, 32-41-41 will give you 107
6933 will give you 109GB
7000 will give you 110GB

For the ones on air, >6800 it's not worth pursuing it, as once back with a closed case and a ****ty 120mm fan, it won't hold under load. 
Watercooled dimms are a different story.
TM5 screens, with 90min test cycles mean nothing, they don't cook the ram as Karhu does.


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> It's very simple, for us being on air
> 
> 6600 32-39-39-28 can run stock voltage (1.39 vdd)
> 6800 can run 1.45vdd @ 32-41-41-28, but already needs 1.5v @ 32-40-40-28
> 6900 can run 34-42-42-28 @ 1.55 (not advised on air)
> 7000 needs 1.58 at least (not advised on air)
> 
> Your mileage may vary, depending on how far you want to tighten your secondaries and tertiaries.
> Now, 1.45v with Karhu on extreme airflow forced cooling will get your ram to @51c
> In a closed case with 80/120/140mm fan it will go mid 50ties or higher easily.
> just forgetting testmem and all other things people consider stable. Above 50c you'll get inconsistent results on Hynix B die.
> IRL 6800 is the sweetspot where 32-40-40 will give you 108GB AIDA read, 32-41-41 will give you 107
> 6933 will give you 109GB
> 7000 will give you 110GB
> 
> For the ones on air, >6800 it's not worth pursuing it, as once back with a closed case and a ****ty 120mm fan, it won't hold under load.
> Watercooled dimms are a different story.
> TM5 screens, with 90min test cycles mean nothing, they don't cook the ram as Karhu does.


thank you for that data sir. Would lowering my SA Voltage, and VDDQ-TX some maybe lower cpu temp slighty too or not really?


----------



## Raphie

not really, for me, it doesn't bring me anything that AUTO didn't already, only SA can be lower, but that's more from a feel good perspective. This is my combo up to 6800, did not further explore 6933 / 7000 once I got the required voltages confirmed. I can boot it, bench it, but even when stable, can't use it in daily life.
And this is the bottom line, when benching, I have 14" FAN blowing full power on my ram, this keeps my ram under 50c
I've set the Unify-X remote to Multiplier and gear back to 34x, this keeps the CPU @50c while benching (1.184v)
But once a bench is stable and the fan is taken away and the glass panel goes back on and I don't clock down on MP's Temps are a different story. with a 80mm Noctua blowing on the ram @ 1.45v in closed case it can already go to 49c easily under load. So 1.5v for sure won't hold in 100% of the cases, maybe 90%, but not 100% in daily usage

Once you know that, benching anything above 1.45v becomes an academic exercise. Not something you can use in normal usage.

Now, others will chime in with AIO's in high airflow cases, running 2000rpm fans. I'm talking SILENT PC 500rpm max.

Currently 22.1 here
ram idles at 32c
Karhu after 20mins takes DIMM #1 to 49c, DIMM #2 to 47c with 14" fan blowing in open case
With case closed and 80mm fan blowing directly on mem @ 2000rpm< Karhu will take mem to 55c easily after 20mins or so. Now such sustained loads will not happen IRL and heat transient spikes are dealt with quite efficiently, but it's something to think about.

below is 25mins into Karhu @ 1.45VDD / 1.42VDDQ


----------



## Ky0sHiR0

Hi Guys,
It's a kind of offtop but I got a chance to buy 
Corsair Vengeance 5600 CL36 (from what I found its Samsung chips) for 220 USD. Do You think it's good in terms of money/performance?


----------



## Raphie

Regarding 6800 -7000 - 7200 pre binned kits, my expectation is that they will come with relatively loose XMP type timings. Not all the boards will be able to run them and the ones who do, will have heat issues when not on extreme water cooling, or continuously running into error correction.
You did see it with DDR4 as well. Many not able to run 4400 / 4600/ 4800 even at advertized settings. 
If within a year (or 2) there are kits that do 6800 @ 1.39v, I'll probably upgrade again. But advertized settings is a lot influenced by how far the vendor is willing to go with settings. I've seen better results here with the Teamgroup CL40 than the G-Skill CL32, even FURY 6000's sometimes going where the G-Skill won't go.


----------



## newls1

sugi0lover said:


> Another Unify X user's tip for ddr5 oc
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DDR5 OC Options
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564616
> 
> View attachment 2564615
> 
> View attachment 2564614


what are these advanced settings do? might this allow me a speed bump with added stability?


----------



## jeiselramos

newls1 said:


> what are these advanced settings do? might this allow me a speed bump with added stability?


For me nothing and it works worse.
The only thing I enabled was round trip latency for better RTLs


----------



## newls1

jeiselramos said:


> For me nothing and it works worse.
> The only thing I enabled was round trip latency for better RTLs


thank you for that! ill just enable that then too.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> What voltage do you run for 7000c28 max tweaked?


They think they buy ANY DDR5 and ez go 7000


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> Try this .ocb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6800C30.ocb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't boot increase CPU VDDQ with 50mv steps
> Once it boot try to tweak VDD2 or DRAM VDD/VDDQ to make it stable
> 
> View attachment 2565844


ThnX will try. On my setup Karhu doesn't like tRDRD_sg & tWRWR_sg to be at 11 though. I can boot, bench, but Karhu craps out already even before 100% coverage. 13 passes, 12 needs more testing. This is where the Teamgroup sticks seem clearly better imho.


----------



## sugi0lover

newls1 said:


> what are these advanced settings do? might this allow me a speed bump with added stability?


Some people I know had good OC results with those settings, but like all settings, it really depends on each system.


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> What voltage do you run for 7000c28 max tweaked?


I dont run 7000 cl28 but rather 7000 cl30 1T.


----------



## QXE

1.63 VDD, 1.59 VDDQ, 1.35 VDDQTX, 1.42 VDD2, 0.9 SA. tRDWR's of 17/17 stable.


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> 1.63 VDD, 1.59 VDDQ, 1.35 VDDQTX, 1.42 VDD2, 0.9 SA. tRDWR's of 17/17 stable.
> View attachment 2565852


Strong result! Kingpin looks sick for 1t 

Is it 15k+ easy in geekbench 3 memory?


----------



## Raphie

Further tuning loose 6800 @ 1.45v...
Nearly 109GB read


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> Strong result! Kingpin looks sick for 1t
> 
> Is it 15k+ easy in geekbench 3 memory?


Not 15000, but single can do 10000 pts and multi is over 14500. Very solid for 7000 mbps. 1T is strong.


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> please can someone help me stabilize 7000MHz MT/s... Ive spent the past few hours on this since flashing to this A65 MSI UNIFY X bios and im losing control!! HEre are my voltages and such, please if you can offer up advice on what i need to change... Thank you so much for your time and help!!


Z690 UX is destined to be unable to open high, so 7000 is difficult to burn in. If you don't pursue stability, 7400 and 7600 can't be opened.


----------



## sulalin

Nelfhunt，發布：29006075，成員：663206 said:


> 如今也一樣。如果 133 在 8k+ 的速度下會更好？誰知道。
> 100:133 1:2 LN2 DUAL Channel 8267MHZ 直接進入系統 OC~8844 DUAL CHANNEL
> cpu-z：Intel Core i9 12900KF @ 1283.78 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 不。
> [/引用]


----------



## Raphie

Can someone please explain to me, everything else being equal, why tWR, tWTR & tWTR_L INCREASE when lowering tCWL from 30 to 28?
look really strange to me? 10-4-17 become 12-6-19? I always thought 30 was faster and below seems to confirm my findings?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Can someone please explain to me, everything else being equal, why tWR, tWTR & tWTR_L INCREASE when lowering tCWL from 30 to 28?
> look really strange to me? 10-4-17 become 12-6-19? I always thought 30 was faster and below seems to confirm my findings?
> View attachment 2565904
> 
> View attachment 2565905


If you want Twr 10 with tcwl 28 you need tcwl(28)+8+10(Twr you want)=46
If you drop tcwl by 2 you have to do the same thing with TWRPRE and TWRPDEN which set the TWR.
TWTRs aren't real so watch only TWRRDs


----------



## Raphie

ThnX, I’m having TWRPRE and TWRPDEN @ 48, does it make sense to go any lower?
TWRRD I can go 57-44, 43 won’t pass Karhu at 1.45V
I’m really trying to get the max out of 1.45v first.
I can’t pass above on 1.44v so it’s really about the last ticks of performance
TCWL I can do both 30 or 28, what would you suggest then?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> ThnX, I’m having TWRPRE and TWRPDEN @ 48, does it make sense to go any lower?
> TWRRD I can go 57-44, 43 won’t pass Karhu at 1.45V
> I’m really trying to get the max out of 1.45v first.
> I can’t pass above on 1.44v so it’s really about the last ticks of performance
> TCWL I can do both 30 or 28, what would you suggest then?


In terms of performance doesn't change so much.
If you're stable with 28 keep it, if you have to test and don't want waste more time you're fine


----------



## Raphie

both are stable, I guess I stay with 30
tried booting CL30 my sticks don't want to do it @ 6800 low SA, play with TX vdd/vddq but no joy yet.


----------



## Bender82

My samsung chip is now stable att ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


----------



## Raphie

here is my GB5 Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D28 - Geekbench Browser


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> both are stable, I guess I stay with 30
> tried booting CL30 my sticks don't want to do it @ 6800 low SA, play with TX vdd/vddq but no joy yet.


what SA are you using?


----------



## Raphie

always 1.25


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> always 1.25


can i ask why? I keep seeing so many people use .950 For the SA, and have been told so many times 1.2 was not needed... im just curious.. are you unstable with lower?


----------



## Raphie

no, I've got no evidence for this value, neither for auto, neither for 0.9xx
To me I've always passed with any SA value. Till now not have experienced where SA made de the difference between stable or not.
Or SA helped getting VDD down. So it's totally arbitrary for me.


----------



## newls1

@Raphie Can i ask what your mem voltages all are at? CPU VDDQ, VDDQ, etc.. I think there is 4 or 5 of em please. Im having an intermittent post failure and bios comes back and says memory OC failure so im just wanting to compare. Many thanks

all my settings


----------



## Raphie

I can’t read your screen, what am I looking at?


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> I can’t read your screen, what am I looking at?


right click and open in new tab... I dont know how to make it any bigger, im sorry!

actually when i click the pic, it opens up and then i double click it it zooms in for me


----------



## Raphie

Twrwr_sg needs to be 13… 12 won’t hold on our combo
vdd can be 1.50
vddq 1.47


----------



## newls1

my new current so far no more reboot failures stating memory OC failed...

**EDIT i found the issue.. With FSB @ 100.40 very very bad inconsistent reboots and posts! easily replicated. went to 100.35 and zero issues 100% of the time. Must be a FSB hole? Everything works as it should now.. Even just a simple reboot posts SUPER FAST AGAIN. 
@Raphie - I made your changes too, thank you for the recommendation!


----------



## DanGleeballs

newls1 said:


> @Raphie Can i ask what your mem voltages all are at? CPU VDDQ, VDDQ, etc.. I think there is 4 or 5 of em please. Im having an intermittent post failure and bios comes back and says memory OC failure so im just wanting to compare. Many thanks
> 
> all my settings


Is 44 ring clock quite high with ecores enabled?


----------



## QXE

QXE said:


> Not 15000, but single can do 10000 pts and multi is over 14500. Very solid for 7000 mbps. 1T is strong.
> View attachment 2565892


DDR5-7200 CL30 1T is benchable but not stable. ST of 10100+ and MT of 14800+. Still eagerly waiting for 1.11 so I can hopefully stabilize this.


----------



## Raphie

@newls1 I would recommend these _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...

vdd 1.45 vddq 1.42
test at stock, will be faster than your settings at much lower voltage.


----------



## newls1

DanGleeballs said:


> Is 44 ring clock quite high with ecores enabled?


R23 stable for multi back to back runs so ive been keeping it! If r23 didnt crash, im happy! I did have to increase Ecore to 1.250v in bios tho, auto (1.1xx) was crashing after 2-3 attempt.


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> @newls1 I would recommend these _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> vdd 1.45 vddq 1.42
> test at stock, will be faster than your settings at much lower voltage.


trying to figure out how to change my TWTR-S/L settings to yours in that dragon ball pic. Currently im at:
tWTR-L = 21
tWTR-S = 8
You want 17 and 4. In the bios mine are set to auto but I dont know how to change them to get them to your recommended numbers? I think I have to use the twrpre setting???


----------



## QXE

newls1 said:


> R23 stable for multi back to back runs so ive been keeping it! If r23 didnt crash, im happy! I did have to increase Ecore to 1.250v in bios tho, auto (1.1xx) was crashing after 2-3 attempt.


If i were you id run something like occt small avx2 to really hammer that cpu oc in.


----------



## Raphie

Correct being twpre 48 and trdpre12, take a look at the secondary and tertiary values in this video 




forget the rest, doesn’t work for your mem take my dragonball instead, start 31mins


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Correct being twpre 48 and trdpre12, take a look at the secondary and tertiary values in this video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forget the rest, doesn’t work for your mem take my dragonball instead, start 31mins


Mem tweak use +3 
Dragonball +4
ASRock timing is correct , use the formula i told you this morning 

So if you see Twr 16 in Dragonball it's 12 in ASRock and 15 in memtweak [emoji12]


----------



## Raphie

I’m done for this round, happy with the 6800 32-41-41-28 settings above @ 1.45vdd / 1.42 vddq 
system is as fast as the 32-40-40-28 settings I had previously, but which needed 1.5vdd / 1.47 vddq


----------



## QXE

"Through the fire, to the wire" someone had to challenge Sugi 
1.62 VDD, 1.59 VDDQ, 1.9 VPP, 1.35 VDDQTX, 1.42 VDD2, 0.9 SA.
Edit: It can challenge his 7200 OC, but his 7333 OC is something else haha


----------



## affxct

I'm probably going to try and move from this Apex, but I thought it was kinda crazy how well the timings tightened up from my initial OC. Also, once you're at the max data rate, it's like the board stops being weird. All of a sudden you can use a range of SA and VDD2 values and keep tightening timings without weird errors popping up.

This is just 6133 28-35-35-28-1T, but some of the secondaries and tertiaries are kinda neat. Perhaps if you're stuck at a data rate, just try to floor your timings. I'm probably going to try 200 tRFCpb, 11-7s, and 48-40 for 8/16 tWTRS/L. Pretty certain that's not going to even train but I might as well.


----------



## affxct

Raphie said:


> @7empe @affxct What should I look for when Karhu fails between 6000% <> 8000% and Y-cruncher 2.5b completes just fine?
> Temps stay below 51c. these settings Welcome to the K10KCK (Karhu 10K% coverage Klub!)
> but then @ 1.45vdd/1.42vddq as the X wants more volt than the Unify ITX.
> 
> Edit, now testing below, beyond 1000%, @ 1.45/1.42 but if it craps out, what would you loosen?
> View attachment 2565505


I'm really sorry, I didn't actually see this. I assume you managed to figure it out. I'd imagine tRFC->340, and increasing the tWRRDs slightly would've sorted it, as 57-46 seems quite low for 6800. You could definitely drop your tRFCpb to 70-75% of tRFC as well.


----------



## QXE

So my daily oc gets 38-39ns of latency in imlc. Im posting two results since one has really bugged bandwidth but sub-40ns has been achieved with ddr5.
Edit: yes it’s HT off


----------



## Raphie

affxct said:


> I'm really sorry, I didn't actually see this. I assume you managed to figure it out. I'd imagine tRFC->340, and increasing the tWRRDs slightly would've sorted it, as 57-46 seems quite low for 6800. You could definitely drop your tRFCpb to 70-75% of tRFC as well.


ThnX yes I sorted it. Landed on 32-41-41-28 2T for 6800. I might explore the 6400 1T when feeling like it, but bandwidth wise and voltage wise that’s no match for above settings. Except taking the latency from 51 to 48 or so.


----------



## rent0n

QXE said:


> So my daily oc gets 38-39ns of latency in imlc. Im posting two results since one has really bugged bandwidth but sub-40ns has been achieved with ddr5.
> View attachment 2566022
> 
> View attachment 2566021


Funny thing you believe 7kC30 could indeed go sub 40 ns latency for real and you were the one to achieve it. Run AIDA with that 100MHz Bclk so it’s comparable to others, even if it is a bit inconsistent. Or the MLCGUI.

Also, by that point I already sound toxic, so how is 7kC30 challenging sugi’s 7333C30 and 15K+ GB3? I mean your overclock is good, but that’s it.


----------



## QXE

rent0n said:


> Funny thing you believe 7kC30 could indeed go sub 40 ns latency for real and you were the one to achieve it. Run AIDA with that 100MHz Bclk so it’s comparable to others, even if it is a bit inconsistent. Or the MLCGUI.
> 
> Also, by that point I already sound toxic, so how is 7kC30 challenging sugi’s 7333C30 and 15K+ GB3? I mean your overclock is good, but that’s it.


It’s not challenging his 7333 OC, and iirc he was at 5.6 GHz for that. Edit: and 5.3 ring frequency. With Terts I had at 7000.


----------



## jomama22

QXE said:


> It’s not challenging his 7333 OC, and iirc he was at 5.6 GHz for that. Edit: and 5.3 ring frequency. With Terts I had at 7000.


Disabling hyperthreading nets you ~3 ns reduction on parts of Intel's mlc, hence the hyperthreading warning. Just putting that out there as you seem to run all your tests with ht disabled.



rent0n said:


> Funny thing you believe 7kC30 could indeed go sub 40 ns latency for real and you were the one to achieve it. Run AIDA with that 100MHz Bclk so it’s comparable to others, even if it is a bit inconsistent. Or the MLCGUI.
> 
> Also, by that point I already sound toxic, so how is 7kC30 challenging sugi’s 7333C30 and 15K+ GB3? I mean your overclock is good, but that’s it.


The sub 40ns they are referring to is the last entry in Intel's mlc, not Aida. They are not comparable.


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> trying to figure out how to change my TWTR-S/L settings to yours in that dragon ball pic. Currently im at:
> tWTR-L = 21
> tWTR-S = 8
> You want 17 and 4. In the bios mine are set to auto but I dont know how to change them to get them to your recommended numbers? I think I have to use the twrpre setting???


still cant figure out how to set these 2 timings


----------



## DanGleeballs

newls1 said:


> still cant figure out how to set these 2 timings


Leave them on auto. TWRRD- sg and TWRRD- sg is what's sets them


----------



## ChaosAD

Do you think i can tighten more for 6666? Any recommendations?


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> still cant figure out how to set these 2 timings


The two larger tertiaries. sg minus 6 minus tCWL is tWTRL and dg minus 6 minus tCWL is tWTRS. Basically you have to set them via those two tertiaries. The tWRRDs, that's what they're called.


----------



## jomama22

affxct said:


> The two larger tertiaries. sg minus 6 minus tCWL I'd tWTRL and dg minus 6 minues tCWL is tWTRS.


Ignore those calculations. Seriously. You can find lots of working examples of pairs that go well together in this thread.

56/44, 55/43, 58/46, 55/39, ect 

But do not think there is some inherent spacing or pattern to it. Each can be adjusted individually and one tick up or down and destabilize everything.

You just have to test.


----------



## affxct

jomama22 said:


> Ignore those calculations. Seriously. You can find lots of working examples of pairs that go well together in this thread.
> 
> 56/44, 55/43, 58/46, 55/39, ect
> 
> But do not think there is some inherent spacing or pattern to it. Each can be adjusted individually and one tick up or down and destabilize everything.
> 
> You just have to test.


Haha no he's asking how you set them. Pretty much I'm just telling him what the calculation is derived from (which it is). If he sets 52/42 with tCWL 26 for instance, his resultant values will be tWTRS/L 10/20.

You guys are really on edge these days 😅


----------



## affxct

ChaosAD said:


> Do you think i can tighten more for 6666? Any recommendations?
> View attachment 2566034


You could possibly drop tWR and tRTP if your OC has headroom, but I reckon you're good. If you're happy and stable then leave it.


----------



## Raphie

ChaosAD said:


> Do you think i can tighten more for 6666? Any recommendations?
> View attachment 2566034


Very nice!, what VDD / VDDQ?


----------



## ChaosAD

Raphie said:


> Very nice!, what VDD / VDDQ?


Testing at 1.48v atm


----------



## newls1

you all are WAY TO SMART.... im even more confused! Let me switch PCs and post my settings and maybe you can advise if something is out of line?! BRB

edit.... Here is a pic of my current mem settings, anything to out of whack? Also I notice asrock timing app reads these tWTR L/S differently the Dragonball does. Asrock apps reads it correctly based on the math provided above.


----------



## Nelfhunt

12*7*00KF, Z690i Unify.
AIO Arctic LFII 360
2x 40mm fan over memory

CPU SA - 1.2
CPU VDDQ - 1.35
CPU VDD2 - 1.4
DRAM VDD - 1.5
DRAM VDDQ - 1.47


----------



## Bender82

asdkj1740 said:


> which die is that?


Intel 12600k


----------



## Nizzen

Nelfhunt said:


> 12*7*00KF, Z690i Unify.
> AIO Arctic LFII 360
> 2x 40mm fan over memory
> 
> CPU SA - 1.2
> CPU VDDQ - 1.35
> CPU VDD2 - 1.4
> DRAM VDD - 1.5
> DRAM VDDQ - 1.47


Nice job mate


----------



## affxct

J


newls1 said:


> you all are WAY TO SMART.... im even more confused! Let me switch PCs and post my settings and maybe you can advise if something is out of line?! BRB
> 
> edit.... Here is a pic of my current mem settings, anything to out of whack? Also I notice asrock timing app reads these tWTR L/S differently the Dragonball does. Asrock apps reads it correctly based on the math provided above.


Just tRFC and pb. Maybe 340 for tRFC and tRFC2 with 270 for tRFCpb. That should be more than doable.


----------



## asdkj1740

new intel a die would be 6600mhz ~ 6800mhz easy.
7200mhz xmp possible.
some said it would be topped out at ~7600mhz and unlikely to reach 8000mhz.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> new intel a die would be 6600mhz ~ 6800mhz easy.
> 7200mhz xmp possible.
> some said it would topped out at ~7600mhz and unlikely to reach 8000mhz.


Which manufacturer? Or do you mean Intel themselves?


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Which manufacturer?


intel.

edited:
intel + hynix actually.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> intel.


I apologize for my ignorance. So Intel are making a DDR5 IC, or they're saying Raptor Lake chips will be pushing those data rates?


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> I apologize for my ignorance. So Intel are making a DDR5 IC, or they're saying Raptor Lake chips will be pushing those data rates?


no offense taken)

i though you guys have already seen this, shared by others.
msi just used that to break new world record at 10508mhz.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> no offense taken)
> 
> i though you guys have already seen this, shared by others.
> msi just used that to break new world record at 10508mhz.
> View attachment 2566051


Oh wow! I heard about the Unify-X being used to break a record but I had no clue there was an Intel-manufactured module with a new Hynix IC involved 😅. That's definitely interesting.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Oh wow! I heard about the Unify-X being used to break a record but I had no clue there was an Intel-manufactured module with a new Hynix IC involved 😅. That's definitely interesting.


it is called "hynix a die" currently, but it seems everyone is giving huge credits to intel.


----------



## newls1

affxct said:


> J
> 
> Just tRFC and pb. Maybe 340 for tRFC and tRFC2 with 270 for tRFCpb. That should be more than doable.


just did that, thank you!


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> it is called "hynix a die" currently, but it seems everyone is giving huge credits to intel.


I can't believe Intel are making OC RAM. It's kinda awesome though. I like how Intel and NVIDIA don't prohibit OCing. Not quite sure why AMD don't try to support it.


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> just did that, thank you!


Happy to help if I can


----------



## SuperMumrik

asdkj1740 said:


> i though you guys have already seen this, shared by others.


Wow! I need this kit =)


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> I can't believe Intel are making OC RAM. It's kinda awesome though. I like how Intel and NVIDIA don't prohibit OCing. Not quite sure why AMD don't try to support it.


(part of the) intel has been the most oc supporting company among these three for years.
intel creates atx3.0 for nvidia not being oc lmao while nvidia has been baning bios tweaker since pascal!


----------



## Raphie

600€ and 3 months of blood, sweat, tears and 4 BIOS upgrades later… You just buy a kit that does 7200 @ 1.5v out of the box … *****..


----------



## affxct

Raphie said:


> 600€ and 3 months of blood, sweat, tears and 4 BIOS upgrades later… You just buy a kit that does 7200 @ 1.5v out of the box … ***..


By this point after all the testing I've done with different kits, CPUs and boards, and all the results I've looked at - the board decides the frequency. It's the only logical conclusion I can come up with. It seems as though the CPU will limit top-end data rates and timings to a degree with SA and TX VDDQ needs, but all four i9s I've owned were okay.

The kit will also decide top-end data rate as well as the minimum-bootable access latency (two S16Bs couldn't do CL28 and one couldn't do CL30 even). With all that factored in, all it means is you need enough SA to not cause a SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION, enough TX VDDQ to train, good enough ICs to train whatever timing or data rate, and enough memory voltage or VDD2 to not cause instant crashes on boot.

Otherwise, the only factor that seems to decide if your training will break between boots and full shut-downs is the board. Notice how smoothly most Unify-X 6800s and Dark KP 7000s go. I bet it wouldn't even be any harder than adjusting a few rails to reasonable values and using reasonable timings.

We can't really be sure what the issue is, but this is not exclusive to the MZ690A. Some Formula's boot less than Z690-Fs and some Taichi's can daily 6600-6800. A lot of Carbons can't even daily about 6200 yet they're rated for 6666+. The Apex community just shouted the loudest, and it is a pricey XOC board so maybe we were justified, idk.

A scary thought I've had is how will vendors fix this. The Aqua and Tachyon have 12 layers while the Dark and Classifed have 10. The Unify-X has a very good 8-layer. How will vendors go past 7000 reliably and do away with all this weirdness between boots. That's something I don't have the technical expertise to understand. This isn't due to our IMCs and our kits aren't really all that much to blame either.


----------



## Raphie

Don’t get me wrong, pushing the envelope is never efficient and I’m enjoying the ride. I’m super happy with the X, I just can’t wait to slap 2 7200 xmp’s in, clock them at 8k and call it a day


----------



## affxct

Raphie said:


> Don’t get me wrong, pushing the envelope is never efficient and I’m enjoying the ride. I’m super happy with the X, I just can’t wait to slap 2 7200 xmp’s in, clock them at 8k and call it a day


As good as the -X is, if you could do 8000 with good ICs then you'd be at 7200-7400 with your current kit. Don't take that the wrong way though. 7000-7200 might be easier.


----------



## SuperMumrik

affxct said:


> then you'd be at 7200-7400 with your current kit. Don't take that the wrong way though. 7000-7200 might be easier.


Not necessarily though.
We might get kits that will be easier to “run" down the line (think b-dies vs those pesky djr sticks for high speed).


----------



## affxct

SuperMumrik said:


> Not necessarily though.
> We might get kits that will be easier to “run" down the line (think b-dies vs those pesky djr sticks for high speed).


That would indicate an IC limitation. What I'm saying is almost like trying to use a 4000C14 B-die kit to force 4000Mbps out of a 4-layer board rated for 3000. The kit allows the RAM to get to a higher speed, but if the board cannot train it reliably then it doesn't really matter.


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> Wow! I need this kit =)


After me 🤣


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> As good as the -X is, if you could do 8000 with good ICs then you'd be at 7200-7400 with your current kit. Don't take that the wrong way though. 7000-7200 might be easier.


i think that's why there may not be 7000mhz or higher kit available as much as 6000 / 6200 kits out there, because of the cooling capability out of the box.
unless we are going to see some kits coming with active cooling mounting like the old corsair ddr3 ones, why not buy those native 5600mhz kit and oc for ourselves just like those current 4800mhz sticks with no heatsink.

Raphie has his point, these are the prices we all paid for being early adopters.


----------



## Raphie

affxct said:


> As good as the -X is, if you could do 8000 with good ICs then you'd be at 7200-7400 with your current kit. Don't take that the wrong way though. 7000-7200 might be easier.


I think you’re right. Current gen boards probably 7400


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> After me 🤣


Aight, WE need this kit 🤫


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> Oh wow! I heard about the Unify-X being used to break a record but I had no clue there was an Intel-manufactured module with a new Hynix IC involved 😅. That's definitely interesting.


Its Hynix M die.


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> Its Hynix M die.


But all Hynix now is M-die, so not a new?


----------



## centvalny

Intel sent hynix A die samples to Giga, Asus and MSi. Probly in prep for new gen amd/intel mobos.


----------



## SuperCloud

Hi,
Can anyone confirm if the following is Sk. Hynix:
CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 CMK32GX5M2X6400C38


----------



## tubs2x4

Raphie said:


> Don’t get me wrong, pushing the envelope is never efficient and I’m enjoying the ride. I’m super happy with the X, I just can’t wait to slap 2 7200 xmp’s in, clock them at 8k and call it a day


It will still never be enough and you know it haha


----------



## Nizzen

SuperCloud said:


> Hi,
> Can anyone confirm if the following is Sk. Hynix:
> CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 CMK32GX5M2X6400C38


Yes


----------



## asdkj1740

centvalny said:


> Intel sent hynix A die samples to Giga, Asus and MSi. Probly in prep for new gen amd/intel mobos.


they used that to break the world record instead...
msi asus gigabyte take top three of ddr5 frequency all by using the intel stick...


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> they used that to break the world record instead...
> msi asus gigabyte take top three of ddr5 frequency all by using the intel stick...


Any proof of that? Asus made world record yesterday on ddr5 frequency. Don't know what ddr5 brand it was.


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Any proof of that? Asus made world record yesterday on ddr5 frequency. Don't know what ddr5 brand it was.











Intel Core i9 12900K @ 3692.25 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[ecv0pk] Validated Dump by lupin_no_musume (2022-07-05 09:09:07) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX - RAM: 16384 MB




valid.x86.fr




ASUSTeK x R.O.G


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> Intel Core i9 12900K @ 3692.25 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [ecv0pk] Validated Dump by lupin_no_musume (2022-07-05 09:09:07) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX - RAM: 16384 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUSTeK x R.O.G


Is that proof of Intel dimm? I guess ES is whatever they want it to be.


----------



## Bender82

Samsung Chip here i cant not push more out on my DDR5 AIDA64-DDR5


----------



## Navitron

Thank you everyone in this thread for posting your tips and info, it's been helpful in getting my ram stable.

Some info I wanna share with my build.

MB: *Asus ROG STRIX Z690-E*
CPU: *12900K* SP 81 (P90)
RAM: *G.SKILL Trident Z5* DDR5 6400 CL32 (32gb kit) Default voltages: 1.4v

Stability with my build even using XMP settings has been a struggle. I lost the silicon lottery on my CPU and learned a bit to late the intricacies of DDR5 compatibility after my return window. As well as having a 4 DIMM board instead of 2 that most people overwhelmingly seem to prefer for overclocking. If anyone else comes across my post with a similar CPU and Board configuration here are some things I did to get stable 6400 XMP (Hey XMP is still considered a overclock )

System agent voltage! especially with my Asus board on auto defaults to 1.25v. On other posts on this thread most other motherboards like MSI seem to auto to 0.950 - 1.1v (Probably due to the DIMM slot count?) Manually undervolting the SA voltage to 0.950v improved stability. Even pumping the VDD / VDDQ to 1.5v didn't help. Without the undervolt I was only able to get 6000.

I was able to get 6200 stable with the SA undervolt. Another undervolt got me 6400 and tightened secondary & tertiary timings! This time on the CPU specifically through V/F Point Offsets, -0.020v on Point 6.

I learned It's not all about pumping voltages especially if you have a weaker chip and not ideal motherboard combo for high XMP profiles.


----------



## Nizzen

G.skill 6600c34 or G.skill 6000c30?

6000c30 is 200$ more... Must be better?


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Is that proof of Intel dimm? I guess ES is whatever they want it to be.


Hynix new ddr5 modules binned and spd'ed by intel.
For now probly only team group got the modules, other memory vendors will get it probly soon.


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> G.skill 6600c34 or G.skill 6000c30?
> 
> 6000c30 is 200$ more... Must be better?


Wait for the Teamgroup kits [emoji12]


----------



## asdkj1740

centvalny said:


> Hynix new ddr5 modules binned and spd'ed by intel.
> For now probly only team group got the modules, other memory vendors will get it probly soon.


isn't the pcb is also designed by intel?


----------



## centvalny

asdkj1740 said:


> isn't the pcb is also designed by intel?


Probly


----------



## Auzzy

heyo, for anyone with a z690 unify x... new bios released to day (not a beta). only description for the bios is "Fine-tuned memory compatibility." I am expecting big things! also, the last bios was completely removed... completely.


----------



## Auzzy

Navitron said:


> Thank you everyone in this thread for posting your tips and info, it's been helpful in getting my ram stable.
> 
> Some info I wanna share with my build.
> 
> MB: *Asus ROG STRIX Z690-E*
> CPU: *12900K* SP 81 (P90)
> RAM: *G.SKILL Trident Z5* DDR5 6400 CL32 (32gb kit) Default voltages: 1.4v
> 
> Stability with my build even using XMP settings has been a struggle. I lost the silicon lottery on my CPU and learned a bit to late the intricacies of DDR5 compatibility after my return window. As well as having a 4 DIMM board instead of 2 that most people overwhelmingly seem to prefer for overclocking. If anyone else comes across my post with a similar CPU and Board configuration here are some things I did to get stable 6400 XMP (Hey XMP is still considered a overclock )
> 
> System agent voltage! especially with my Asus board on auto defaults to 1.25v. On other posts on this thread most other motherboards like MSI seem to auto to 0.950 - 1.1v (Probably due to the DIMM slot count?) Manually undervolting the SA voltage to 0.950v improved stability. Even pumping the VDD / VDDQ to 1.5v didn't help. Without the undervolt I was only able to get 6000.
> 
> I was able to get 6200 stable with the SA undervolt. Another undervolt got me 6400 and tightened secondary & tertiary timings! This time on the CPU specifically through V/F Point Offsets, -0.020v on Point 6.
> 
> I learned It's not all about pumping voltages especially if you have a weaker chip and not ideal motherboard combo for high XMP profiles.
> 
> View attachment 2566151
> 
> View attachment 2566152


i think its pretty obvious that more than 1.2volts on the vccsa can be a big negative for stability if you cannot keep the temperatures very low. id say keep it below 1.2 on ambient. i also had problems until i figured that out


----------



## jeiselramos

Auzzy said:


> heyo, for anyone with a z690 unify x... new bios released to day (not a beta). only description for the bios is "Fine-tuned memory compatibility." I am expecting big things! also, the last bios was completely removed... completely.


Tomorrow I'll retry my 6800C28 and try 6933/7000, if it's better or equal than A.65 I'll let you know


----------



## asdkj1740

Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive







drive.google.com




unify itx has entered the chat
first a72u2













Auzzy said:


> heyo, for anyone with a z690 unify x... new bios released to day (not a beta). only description for the bios is "Fine-tuned memory compatibility." I am expecting big things! also, the last bios was completely removed... completely.


a6=a60, 0=official, a60 should be more complete than a65(beta), namely a60>a65.
a62u2//a65 has been showing very strong results shared by lots of users here and elsewhere.


----------



## flake90

Hello. Can some1 please help me to figure it out.
Setup:
MSI mpg z690 force
12700k (overlocked to 5.1)
Kingston fury beast 6000mhz on hynix

I'm new to overclocking ram.
So how far I can push it with stock heatspreaders? No fans at the ram. I was doing 6200mhz 39-39-39-77 at 1.380 vdd and after 3 passes iv got some errors.

So which temps are safe for ram? Which voltages are safe @stock heatspreaders? What parameters should I tweak safe to achieve the best results? Thank you.


----------



## jeiselramos

flake90 said:


> Hello. Can some1 please help me to figure it out.
> Setup:
> MSI mpg z690 force
> 12700k (overlocked to 5.1)
> Kingston fury beast 6000mhz on hynix
> 
> I'm new to overclocking ram.
> So how far I can push it with stock heatspreaders? No fans at the ram. I was doing 6200mhz 39-39-39-77 at 1.380 vdd and after 3 passes iv got some errors.
> 
> So which temps are safe for ram? Which voltages are safe @stock heatspreaders? What parameters should I tweak safe to achieve the best results? Thank you.


Try 6000 32-35-35-28 1.35 vdd/vddq 
Sa voltage mode offset auto


----------



## jeiselramos

A.60 garbage Bios 
6800C28 instable after 2 min of tm5 
Back to a.65


----------



## asdkj1740

jeiselramos said:


> A.60 garbage Bios
> 6800C28 instable after 2 min of tm5
> Back to a.65


a nice case to see newer is not always better.


----------



## jeiselramos

asdkj1740 said:


> a nice case to see newer is not always better.


The relase date is like 4 days later
*** they did in 4 days [emoji23]


----------



## flake90

jeiselramos said:


> Try 6000 32-35-35-28 1.35 vdd/vddq
> Sa voltage mode offset auto


1 pass of 4 passed (memtest86) temps are about 41, so far so good, now waiting until 4 passes


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing ram OC result of my friend

CPU : 12900K
DRAM: Teamgroup 6000 C38 1.25v
M/B: Z690 Dark Kingpin 1.10 Bios
OC setting
CPU: P54 E off R50 / BCLK 101.45
Ram: 7100 C29-41-41-28 1T

Voltages
CPU VDDQ 1.3v
VDD2 (MC) 1.35v
VDD 1.65v VDDQ 1.47v VPP 1.82v


----------



## Raphie

Latest Dragon Tools:









MSI Dragon Ball - Intel.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












MSI Dragon Power - Intel.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## akgis

So intel had to step up and make modules itself, tbh it seems the DDR5 scene is a circus clown of incompatibility and stability, and intel had to step up....

Mobo brands blame the IMC on the cpus, DDR5 Module brands blame the mobos


----------



## affxct

akgis said:


> So intel had to step up and make modules itself, tbh it seems the DDR5 scene is a circus clown of incompatibility and stability, and intel had to step up....
> 
> Mobo brands blame the IMC on the cpus, DDR5 Module brands blame the mobos


I think we should all blame the MBs. It's definitely the MBs and the BIOSs 🤣. In the odd case like with my first kit, it's bad QC on the DIMMs themselves.


----------



## flake90

jeiselramos said:


> Try 6000 32-35-35-28 1.35 vdd/vddq
> Sa voltage mode offset auto


So, iv had success at memtest86 4 passes 13 hours test, it is stable. Should I try to tweak anything else to get better results or stay with it? Thank you very much.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> I think we should all blame the MBs. It's definitely the MBs and the BIOSs 🤣. In the odd case like with my first kit, it's bad QC on the DIMMs themselves.



Well Asus did tell me their motherboard was bad and they couldn't fix it so here is another one and it is indeed better than the first so there's that. Also, the fact that they did rma a ton of other people's motherboards as well for the same reasons so there's that as well.


----------



## jeiselramos

flake90 said:


> So, iv had success at memtest86 4 passes 13 hours test, it is stable. Should I try to tweak anything else to get better results or stay with it? Thank you very much.


6200 32-37-37-28 with the same voltages
If you are stable with that
TRFC 300
TRFCPb 250
TREFI 65535 or 130560
TRRD L 6 
TRRD S 4
TFAW 16


----------



## flake90

jeiselramos said:


> 6200 32-37-37-28 with the same voltages
> If you are stable with that
> TRFC 300
> TRFCPb 250
> TREFI 65535 or 130560
> TRRD L 6
> TRRD S 4
> TFAW 16


Got errors at first 2 mins of testing with 6200 32-37-37-28


----------



## lowmotion

asdkj1740 said:


> Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unify itx has entered the chat
> first a72u2


Seems to run fine. Got errors on 6800mhz with older bios.


----------



## jeiselramos

flake90 said:


> Got errors at first 2 mins of testing with 6200 32-37-37-28


Try 1.4 vdd 1.35 vddq


----------



## flake90

jeiselramos said:


> Try 1.4 vdd 1.35 vddq


Instant errors all the way


----------



## newls1

Simple question: How much of a performance impact does tWTR-S & tWTR-L consist of. Im at 8 and 21 I think and trying to figure out how to lower them to what some others here are using is changing other settings and im getting confused and pissed! So im just gonna leave them where they currently are but was just wondering if im missing out on a setting that will actually make a noticable difference in performance.


----------



## TheBrandon

With DDR4 there was Samsung B-Die, is there a defacto manufacturer to look at for DDR5 or a tier list for stability\performance or is this all silicon lottery and we're still trying to figure this out? I've been reading the horror stories and it seems to point as mentioned above, mobo, DDR5, ICM. I was looking at one board and seemed to be pushed towards another board due to memory issues/complaints. Our local Microcenter has tons of GSkill kits returned for example.


----------



## newls1

TheBrandon said:


> With DDR4 there was Samsung B-Die, is there a defacto manufacturer to look at for DDR5 or a tier list for stability\performance or is this all silicon lottery and we're still trying to figure this out? I've been reading the horror stories and it seems to point as mentioned above, mobo, DDR5, ICM. I was looking at one board and seemed to be pushed towards another board due to memory issues/complaints. Our local Microcenter has tons of GSkill kits returned for example.


hynix mem and get a 2 dimm motherboard like the unify x. Be a solid setup


----------



## Alberto_It

For Asus's users, there’s a new bios, give a try if there are some ram Oc and compatibility improvements 









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


The thread is mostly abandoned by Asus, what did you expect? Recommend everyone to join the trainwreck?




www.overclock.net


----------



## Raphie

Guys, do any of you have a Karku stable 1T config 6400Mhz for the Unify-X g-skill 6400/32 combo tested on A6xx BIOS?
If so what vdd/vddq did you end up with?


----------



## Navitron

@Alberto_It No difference still stable @ 6400 with tightened timings. That seems to be the limit of my MB + CPU combo.

@Raphie Would also be interested to hear if anyone has any timings and voltages for 6400.


----------



## Raphie

I’ve posted stable 2T’s up to 6800
it’s specifically the 1T I’m looking for, for my mem / board combo.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Raphie said:


> Guys, do any of you have a Karku stable 1T config 6400Mhz for the Unify-X g-skill 6400/32 combo tested on A6xx BIOS?
> If so what vdd/vddq did you end up with?


1T 6400 on A21 bios easy. I'll switch bios and get settings for you if ya like. Corsair 6200 Hynix.
@Raphie 








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Nice @bigfootnz :D(y) Pretty much running the same, I've yet to optimize the VDD/VDDQ at all. But VDD2 at 1.3v and SA at 1.25v, VDDQ TX at 1.4v. I'll post a better pic once I'm done testing, so I can move on to trying 7000. Any success there for you yet? That is great, you have managed to...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Raphie

ThnX would appreciate dragonball.


----------



## jeiselramos

6800C28 stable on A.60


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> 6800C28 stable on A.60
> View attachment 2566328


What voltage?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> What voltage?


Same voltages
0.927 sa offset auto
1.3 vddq tx
1.44 vdd2 
1.54 vdd 1.51 vddq


----------



## Raphie

nice! Can you post an AIDA screen? Curious about throughput / latency


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> 6800C28 stable on A.60
> View attachment 2566328


You said first that A.60 is not stable 6800C28 and that you are back A.65 and now is stable on same voltages? What has changed?

When you say A.60 you mean A6 from msi web site?


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> nice! Can you post an AIDA screen? Curious about throughput / latency


This is with my cpu completely maxed out for daily 5.3/4.1/4.4 but I usually use 5.1/4.1/4.2 with less vcore so add 1/2ns


----------



## Raphie

Very nice! Will flash A60 as well


----------



## jeiselramos

bigfootnz said:


> You said first that A.60 is not stable 6800C28 and that you are back A.65 and now is stable on same voltages? What has changed?
> 
> When you say A.60 you mean A6 from msi web site?


I think was a first train problem. because after i updated the bios i went straight to the bios and was unstable.
Then I retry after a boot in jedec, power off the psu, set the timing and worked no problem.

Yes it's A6 from msi website


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> Very nice! Will flash A60 as well


This is my daily, as you can see latency/bandwidth is very core/cache dependent and I don't like Aida because inconsistent and doesn't show you a lot of things like that


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> This is my daily, as you can see latency/bandwidth is very core/cache dependent and I don't like Aida because inconsistent and doesn't show you a lot of things like that
> View attachment 2566333


For 5.1 you are running 1.43v? Is this socket or vcc sense? What LLC? Do you need this voltage for just 5.1?


----------



## jeiselramos

bigfootnz said:


> For 5.1 you are running 1.43v? Is this socket or vcc sense? What LLC? Do you need this voltage for just 5.1?


No I forgot to change the vcore when I pass from 5.3 to 5.1 
Vcc sense 
LLC mode 7


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> I think was a first train problem. because after i updated the bios i went straight to the bios and was unstable.
> Then I retry after a boot in jedec, power off the psu, set the timing and worked no problem.
> 
> Yes it's A6 from msi website


Did you experienced 5C error code with any bios? When OC is unstable and mobo is locked that only clear cmos help?


----------



## jeiselramos

bigfootnz said:


> Did you experienced 5C error code with any bios? When OC is unstable and mobo is locked that only clear cmos help?


For me was timing too tight, like WRRDs, RDWRs and trfc/trfcpb


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> No I forgot to change the vcore when I pass from 5.3 to 5.1
> Vcc sense
> LLC mode 7


I would suggest going to socket sense.

I watch buildzoid video where he was checking Unify-X with scope and tested different llc, vrm frequency…


----------



## bigfootnz

jeiselramos said:


> For me was timing too tight, like WRRDs, RDWRs and trfc/trfcpb


So you also had this 5C error? And only clear cmos helped? Just checking as I’m trying to find solution for this with MSI.


----------



## jeiselramos

bigfootnz said:


> So you also had this 5C error? And only clear cmos helped? Just checking and I’m trying to find solution fir this with MSI.


Yes, CMOS necessary only with tight trfc/trfcpb


----------



## jeiselramos

bigfootnz said:


> I would suggest going to socket sense.
> 
> I watch buildzoid video where he was checking Unify-X with scope and tested different llc, vrm frequency…


I don't use switching frequency I leave on auto (500khz).
In his 6800C34 profile he told vcc sense and mode 7 or socket sense and mode 6 work


----------



## db000

My current daily for the last week now is 6800C30-40-40-28-320-2T 1.55v. I'm yet to be successful with 6933C32 or 7000C32.
Currently still on A62U2. What is the opinion on later bioses as of now? Are they any better? A6, A65


----------



## jeiselramos

db000 said:


> My current daily for the last week now is 6800C30-40-40-28-320-2T 1.55v. I'm yet to be successful with 6933C32 or 7000C32.
> Currently still on A62U2. What is the opinion on later bioses as of now? Are they any better? A6, A65


New microcode 22 instead of 21
A.60 had the weird behavior I wrote before but after that no problem like a.62u2 and a.65


----------



## Raphie

so A60 is the newest then?


----------



## Raphie

jeiselramos said:


> New microcode 22 instead of 21
> A.60 had the weird behavior I wrote before but after that no problem like a.62u2 and a.65


With identical 6800 settings as A6.5 with A6 my tRTL's went from 64 to 65, can't get them back to 64 put RTL training ON (instead of auto) no lower than 65....


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> so A60 is the newest then?


Yes


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> With identical 6800 settings as A6.5 with A6 my tRTL's went from 64 to 65, can't get them back to 64 put RTL training ON (instead of auto) no lower than 65....


Odd, I've the same RTLs


----------



## Raphie

For the ones with *Unify-X and G-Skill 6400/32*, below are the most efficient power/performance settings which have been thoroughly test by myself and are stable for daily usage

6800Mhz
1.45v VDD / 1.42v VDDQ
0.95 SA

Couple of comments: 41-41 can be 40-40 but will require 1.5v VDD 1.47v VDDQ
CL30 will boot @ 1.55v VDD but still BSOD under load, so needing even more
all tertiaries are as tight as G-Skill can take. Others with TeamGroup can go tighter, but I've tested every setting individually and this is as low as it goes
tCWL can be 28, but benches slower
tCKE can be 4, but benches slower

As you can see on above MCL's there is only 2ns to gain on latency which will take you from 1.45v VDD to 1.55v


----------



## newls1

jeiselramos said:


> Odd, I've the same RTLs


try going under the advanced dram sub menu (where we set all the mem timings) and scroll down to where the RTL's are and change the top of that section to "Dynamic"..... There are 3 options, Auto, Dynamic and Fixed. Bios default is auto, I changed to dynamic and my RTL's dropped alot.


----------



## just20sent

Should I buy a new kit ? I bought some V-color Samsung die 6000mhz CL40 while ddr5 was hard to get, the performance isn’t amazing with high latency 84ns and max speed of 84gb/s 

any recommendations boys ? Thanks


----------



## DanGleeballs

just20sent said:


> Should I buy a new kit ? I bought some V-color Samsung die 6000mhz CL40 while ddr5 was hard to get, the performance isn’t amazing with high latency 84ns and max speed of 84gb/s
> 
> any recommendations boys ? Thanks


What board do you have? Are you mostly gaming?


----------



## SHAYAN_al

ok after reading many pages couldn't find some advice for msi force z690. I think its the white version of msi carbon. I have a gskill 6400 cl32 which on xmp it can not boot! now I'm on memory try it 6000 cl30 . anyone could get this kit stable at 6400 on msi carbon/force? Any suggestion of voltage


----------



## db000

SHAYAN_al said:


> ok after reading many pages couldn't find some advice for msi force z690. I think its the white version of msi carbon. I have a gskill 6400 cl32 which on xmp it can not boot! now I'm on memory try it 6000 cl30 . anyone could get this kit stable at 6400 on msi carbon/force? Any suggestion of voltage


Updated BIOS?


----------



## SHAYAN_al

db000 said:


> Updated BIOS?


on latest a40 on support page.


----------



## jeiselramos

newls1 said:


> try going under the advanced dram sub menu (where we set all the mem timings) and scroll down to where the RTL's are and change the top of that section to "Dynamic"..... There are 3 options, Auto, Dynamic and Fixed. Bios default is auto, I changed to dynamic and my RTL's dropped alot.


Round trip latency enable does the same thing


----------



## z390e

just20sent said:


> Should I buy a new kit ? I bought some V-color Samsung die 6000mhz CL40 while ddr5 was hard to get, the performance isn’t amazing with high latency 84ns and max speed of 84gb/s
> 
> any recommendations boys ? Thanks


Need more info, but quick response would be yes, buy another kit because 84ns DDR5 seems awful.




SHAYAN_al said:


> ok after reading many pages couldn't find some advice for msi force z690. I think its the white version of msi carbon. I have a gskill 6400 cl32 which on xmp it can not boot! now I'm on memory try it 6000 cl30 . anyone could get this kit stable at 6400 on msi carbon/force? Any suggestion of voltage



Is the GSKILL 6400 kit you have on the QVL for your motherboard? Usually the mobo support page will have this list, or the RAM vendor.


----------



## bscool

just20sent said:


> Should I buy a new kit ? I bought some V-color Samsung die 6000mhz CL40 while ddr5 was hard to get, the performance isn’t amazing with high latency 84ns and max speed of 84gb/s
> 
> any recommendations boys ? Thanks


Buy new ram for $400 to run XMP and get 79ns latency instead of 84 vs tunning whatever you have to get say 55 to 60ns. And why? for comparing ns or benchmarks?

No memory at XMP is going to perform like tuned timings and a clean OS.


----------



## just20sent

I got the kit when i knew nothing about memory timing, this thread opened my eyes. The marketing got me when i saw just the frequency at the time... shame on me 
I'm using a MSI Z690I (2slot ddr5 mini itx board)


----------



## Nizzen

just20sent said:


> I got the kit when i knew nothing about memory timing, this thread opened my eyes. The marketing got me when i saw just the frequency at the time... shame on me
> I'm using a MSI Z690I (2slot ddr5 mini itx board)
> 
> View attachment 2566407


This is like 30% less performance in some fps games, compared to max tuned Hynix memory on your motherboard


----------



## just20sent

Nizzen said:


> This is like 30% less performance in some fps games, compared to max tuned Hynix memory on your motherboard


Do you have a link to the kit, i will try to swap it for the tuned one recommended on this forum. 
Also how can search on the thread without having to go through 300 pages ? Thanks


----------



## bscool

just20sent said:


> Do you have a link to the kit, i will try to swap it for the tuned one recommended on this forum.
> Also how can search on the thread without having to go through 300 pages ? Thanks


If you want cheapest Kingston 6000c40 is one of the cheaper and will still hit 6800 to 7000. Gskill or Corsair 6600 kits will be good but 2-3 times the price and probabaly clock very close to what Kingstons can.

I alreay have Kingstons that can do 7000c30 but curious so I have Corsairs 6600c32 coming. 🙃

My advice is tune what you have but I obviously dont even take my own advice


----------



## jeiselramos

bscool said:


> If you want cheapest Kingston 6000c40 is one of the cheaper and will still hit 6800 to 7000. Gskill or Corsair 6600 kits will be good but 2-3 times the price and probabaly clock very close to what Kingstons can.
> 
> I alreay have Kingstons that can do 7000c30 but curious so I have Corsairs 6600c32 coming.
> 
> My advice is tune what you have but I obviously dont even take my own advice


You can't watercool them right?


----------



## bscool

jeiselramos said:


> You can't watercool them right?


I dont know. I dont plan on watercooling them as often as I change parts/systems. 

I have seen people say you cant because they are too tall.


----------



## just20sent

Do we have some reference timing achievable with Samsung dies ? 
I’m considering the Kingston kit, it’s quiet cheap but I’m afraid that I won’t be knowledgeable enough to oc on my own, do people published all the timings for it ?
Sorry boys I’m discovering the world of overclocking memory hehe


----------



## mgkhn

getting some numbers with new tforce 6400c40 kit, now time go stabilty.
12900kf sp99 - 5.2g/4.1g/4.4g
sa 0.95v / vdd + vddq 1.44v vddtx 1.42v / imc 1.25v


----------



## bscool

just20sent said:


> Do we have some reference timing achievable with Samsung dies ?
> I’m considering the Kingston kit, it’s quiet cheap but I’m afraid that I won’t be knowledgeable enough to oc on my own, do people published all the timings for it ?
> Sorry boys I’m discovering the world of overclocking memory hehe


Here are some recent results with Samsung









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


I think some people have trouble booting if they manually set the IOLs and RTLs. A trick I learned from older Intel builds, is to set your RAM divider low, like 3800 or 4000, reboot, see what the IOLs and RTLs are, they'll be low. Raise or lower your RAM speed until you get around the ones you...




www.overclock.net





Usually you can user the same or very similar timings. But finding the right voltage for your setup system will take some testing.

You might need to make some adjustments to timings also but going by someone elses will give you a good start with what can work.


----------



## DanGleeballs

just20sent said:


> Do we have some reference timing achievable with Samsung dies ?
> I’m considering the Kingston kit, it’s quiet cheap but I’m afraid that I won’t be knowledgeable enough to oc on my own, do people published all the timings for it ?
> Sorry boys I’m discovering the world of overclocking memory hehe


Use your Samsung kit to learn all about it. Then if you feel like you still need more go spend another load of cash for a few percent more performance that you will unlikely notice 😉


----------



## just20sent

Thank you boys! Just saw that a new bios was published by MSI for the z690 itx 1.7 with improve memory stability  I’ll publish my settings soon if thing don’t catch fire hahaha


----------



## bscool

just20sent said:


> Thank you boys! Just saw that a new bios was published by MSI for the z690 itx 1.7 with improve memory stability  I’ll publish my settings soon if thing don’t catch fire hahaha


Sometimes newer bios are not as good. So if you dont have good results with newest bios look for feedback on what is the best bios from others with your MB.


----------



## asdkj1740

SHAYAN_al said:


> ok after reading many pages couldn't find some advice for msi force z690. I think its the white version of msi carbon. I have a gskill 6400 cl32 which on xmp it can not boot! now I'm on memory try it 6000 cl30 . anyone could get this kit stable at 6400 on msi carbon/force? Any suggestion of voltage


in fact some ppl here keep praising msi over asus while also turning a blind eye to instability problems reported from actual msi users .

which bios is that?


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> in fact some ppl here keep praising msi over asus while also turning a blind eye to instability problems from actual msi users .
> 
> which bios is that?


ASRock ftw ngl, miss my Taichi so much


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> ASRock ftw ngl, miss my Taichi so much


i also saw a msi ace's user saying 6400 gskill not being sable with xmp enabled recently.
so gskill also messed up on hynix other than Samsung?

asrock z690 prices are insane. they deserve to be igorned.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> i also saw a msi ace's user saying 6400 gskill not being sable with xmp enabled recently.
> so gskill also messed up on hynix other than Samsung?
> 
> asrock z690 prices are insane. they deserve to be igorned.


Taichi is $420 new here. It's actually cheaper than both the Force and the Carbon here. The easy option is the Unify-X if it's cheap in your country/region. I opted for the Taichi because the Unify-X is literally 2X the Taichi here, but I made a mistake by jumping to an Apex. I thought perhaps it'd be good for pushing the Hynix kit I was given as an RMA for my Lancer S16Bs, but I'm kinda thinking I should've just tested 6800 on the Taichi first.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Taichi is $420 new here. It's actually cheaper than both the Force and the Carbon here. The easy option is the Unify-X if it's cheap in your country/region. I opted for the Taichi because the Unify-X is literally 2X the Taichi here, but I made a mistake by jumping to an Apex. I thought perhaps it'd be good for pushing the Hynix kit I was given as an RMA for my Lancer S16Bs, but I'm kinda thinking I should've just tested 6800 on the Taichi first.


carbon is ~320usd in hong kong, plus ~$70usd wallet provided by msi.
unify x ~460usd plus 80usd steam.


please dont do that, you and all those 6800mhz being stable on four dimms mobos make me freaking embarrassed ...
lets blame the ram cpu bahbahbah together.

you got 6400 lancer?? it is rare to see 6400 from adata.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> carbon is ~320usd in hong kong, plus ~$70usd wallet provided by msi.
> unify x ~460usd plus 80usd steam.
> 
> 
> please dont do that, you and all those 6800mhz being stable on four dimms mobos make me freaking embarrassing...
> lets blame the ram cpu bahbahbah together.


Yeah in Asia that's a freakin' awesome deal. Unfortunately MSI here is supplied by a really awful distro and MSI themselves don't sell cheap to our region in any case. Buying MSI in my region is a literal waste of money. 

The Taichi should do 6600-6800 (seen screenshots), and the board I had was doing 6400 XMP without adjustments, so I feel like a massive idiot for buying an Apex. Don't even ask what I had floating around in my head at the time. 

By this point I think it's kinda clear that 4 DIMM'ers are only bad for 1T. Afferin has some sick results on his Formula and apparently the M0UAY1 Extreme is a cracked board as well. I've legit seen -E/-F/Hero/Formula/Extreme OCs that make my Apex look like a joke.

Even before I sold the Taichi, I considered testing it and perhaps offloading my Apex before bothering to OC. Wish I had done that now.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Yeah in Asia that's a freakin' awesome deal. Unfortunately MSI here is supplied by a really awful distro and MSI themselves don't sell cheap to our region in any case. Buying MSI in my region is a literal waste of money.
> 
> The Taichi should do 6600-6800 (seen screenshots) so I feel like a massive idiot for buying an Apex. Don't even ask what I had floating around in my head at the time.
> 
> By this point I think it's kinda clear that 4 DIMM'ers are only bad for 1T. Afferin has some sick results on his Formula and apparently the M0UAY1 Extreme is a cracked board as well. I've legit seen -E/-F/Hero/Formula/Extreme OCs that make my Apex look like a joke.


lets put it that way, it is rare to see 2022 asus plus the latest beta bios like 150x used to have trouble with xmp, not just apex but also strix and Maximus with 4 dimm design.
but for msi and gigabyte, they seem no changes. 
one can argue asus 2021 was really suck which is true, but 2022 asus is way too good.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> the latest beta bios like 150x used to have trouble with xmp, not just apex but also strix and Maximus with 4 dimm design.
> but for msi and gigabyte, they seem no changes.


I'm not totally sure what you mean


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> I dont know. I dont plan on watercooling them as often as I change parts/systems.
> 
> I have seen people say you cant because they are too tall.


My ddr5 is in a seperate loop with quick disconnects, for fast change of kits 🤓 🤟


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> Here are some recent results with Samsung
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> I think some people have trouble booting if they manually set the IOLs and RTLs. A trick I learned from older Intel builds, is to set your RAM divider low, like 3800 or 4000, reboot, see what the IOLs and RTLs are, they'll be low. Raise or lower your RAM speed until you get around the ones you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually you can user the same or very similar timings. But finding the right voltage for your setup system will take some testing.
> 
> You might need to make some adjustments to timings also but going by someone elses will give you a good start with what can work.


Ps: This is under cold water. That changing the "rules" a bit. Nice result anyway


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> in fact some ppl here keep praising msi over asus while also turning a blind eye to instability problems reported from actual msi users .


True story.


----------



## just20sent

My STRIX F was unstable with my Samsung 6000mhz CAS40 XMP. Then I changed to the MSI Z690i unify and it was stable,I guess the 4 vs 2 slot helped


----------



## bscool

asdkj1740 said:


> in fact some ppl here keep praising msi over asus while also turning a blind eye to instability problems reported from actual msi users .
> 
> which bios is that?


It is funny how fast people forget. MSI z490 MB were getting bricked by bios updates but most dont know or forgot about it. Many people see things for how they want them to be instead of how they are. 






MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com


----------



## KedarWolf

Nizzen said:


> Ps: This is under cold water. That changing the "rules" a bit. Nice result anyway


Peeps, expert tip. 

If you want your CPU to run cooler, run your motherboard under the cold water tap.

It's called water cooling and it's what the pros do.


----------



## asdkj1740

Next Gen performance and OC potential - G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB kit test with teardown | Page 3 | igor'sLAB


Skill is probably one of the best-known brands in the desktop memory market and of course, the Taiwanese manufacturer also has several interesting SKUs for the new DDR5 standard on offer…




www.igorslab.de




gskill cooling no.1


----------



## newls1

Reading that review, they said these modules are known for failure???? I’ve not read anything about this. Should I be cautious with my set @ 1.5v?


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> Reading that review, they said these modules are known for failure???? I’ve not read anything about this. Should I be cautious with my set @ 1.5v?


I have seen quite a few people who have had gskill ddr5 RGB die.

I think it is more to do with the RGB part of it. I havent seen anyone report dead non RGB gskill ddr5. Maybe they have and I missed it.

I doubt it has to do with the voltage as quite a few people are running rgb and non rgb ddr5 1.55v+ and they are not dying.

Edit added link to thread Bad batch of G.SKILL DDR5 memory or something else?


----------



## db000

Yes, I managed to kill three kits on 6400CL32 with their own software trying to turn the RGB off. I mean, it worked, the RGB did turn off, but so did also one of the sticks do everytime(after a few reboots). Not able to flash SPD either. This was with my Z690 Apex, which has the option to flash SPDs. With my fourth kit I've not bothered to turn it off, its just a slight glow under my RAM waterblocks. Might work fine with my Unify-X now, but have not plan on trying it. Getting the sticks RMA'd is a nightmare since G.Skill doesn't allow the heatspreaders to be removed under warranty. So I figured, I'm just keeping one dead stick... and one stick as spare for now. The two other kits the dealer was very helpful with replacements after showing them the issue.

Anyway... thanks for link to that Igorlab article @asdkj1740  Good read!


----------



## newls1

glad my ram doesnt hve that BS rgb crap!


----------



## monday_morning_qb

Got a question for the pros here. I tried the basic Hynix M-die timings from buildzoid's video here and saw the benefits that the showed in the video. Stupid me of course did not run enough stability tests and decided to wing it. The next day computer crashed and my SSD was write protected and unable to boot or do anything. The BIOS said, "drive failure imminent."

Was I just incredibly unlucky, or is this a new form of corruption I haven't seen before? In the past my OS would get corrupt, but still boot. I've tried google, but I'm not quite getting the answer I am looking for.

I went and got another SSD and the computer booted just fine (albeit, I needed a fresh install).

Specs:
12900K (P99, E75) - 52/41/41 @1.37V
G.Skill 6400 C32 2x16GB
Z690 Apex (BIOS 1304) - I know these have been a crapshoot, mine has a build date of 11-2021
980 Pro 2TB (purchased 3/2021 with 99% health and 1.4TB free)


----------



## bscool

monday_morning_qb said:


> Got a question for the pros here. I tried the basic Hynix M-die timings from buildzoid's video here and saw the benefits that the showed in the video. Stupid me of course did not run enough stability tests and decided to wing it. The next day computer crashed and my SSD was write protected and unable to boot or do anything. The BIOS said, "drive failure imminent."
> 
> Was I just incredibly unlucky, or is this a new form of corruption I haven't seen before? In the past my OS would get corrupt, but still boot. I've tried google, but I'm not quite getting the answer I am looking for.
> 
> I went and got another SSD and the computer booted just fine (albeit, I needed a fresh install).
> 
> Specs:
> 12900K (P99, E75) - 52/41/41 @1.37V
> G.Skill 6400 C32 2x16GB
> Z690 Apex (BIOS 1304) - I know these have been a crapshoot, mine has a build date of 11-2021
> 980 Pro 2TB (purchased 3/2021 with 99% health and 1.4TB free)


If it was common this thread would be full of people with dead ssds. You just got "lucky" 🙃


----------



## asdkj1740

db000 said:


> Yes, I managed to kill three kits on 6400CL32 with their own software trying to turn the RGB off. I mean, it worked, the RGB did turn off, but so did also one of the sticks do everytime(after a few reboots). Not able to flash SPD either. This was with my Z690 Apex, which has the option to flash SDPs. With my fourth kit I've not bothered to turn it off, its just a slight glow under my RAM waterblocks. Might work fine with my Unify-X now, but have not plan on trying it. Getting the sticks RMA'd is a nightmare since G.Skill doesn't allow the heatspreaders to be removed under warranty. So I figured, I'm just keeping one dead stick... and one stick as spare for now. The two other kits the dealer was very helpful with replacements after showing them the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway... thanks for link to that Igorlab article @asdkj1740  Good read!


i saw two dead ones in person as well.

the article is again a masterpiece as it kind of able to show the effectiveness/need of pmic thermal pad.
dies temps should be the first priority and with active cooling it seems fine to have no pmic thermal pad used//minimal differences eventually.
you may also be interested in the recent teamgroup ddr5 article as that also contains the temp data of another kit with no pmic thermal pad used (adata lancer rgb).






monday_morning_qb said:


> Got a question for the pros here. I tried the basic Hynix M-die timings from buildzoid's video here and saw the benefits that the showed in the video. Stupid me of course did not run enough stability tests and decided to wing it. The next day computer crashed and my SSD was write protected and unable to boot or do anything. The BIOS said, "drive failure imminent."
> 
> Was I just incredibly unlucky, or is this a new form of corruption I haven't seen before? In the past my OS would get corrupt, but still boot. I've tried google, but I'm not quite getting the answer I am looking for.
> 
> I went and got another SSD and the computer booted just fine (albeit, I needed a fresh install).
> 
> Specs:
> 12900K (P99, E75) - 52/41/41 @1.37V
> G.Skill 6400 C32 2x16GB
> Z690 Apex (BIOS 1304) - I know these have been a crapshoot, mine has a build date of 11-2021
> 980 Pro 2TB (purchased 3/2021 with 99% health and 1.4TB free)


seems the boot part of your os is crashed because you had not canceled the repair procedure in time.
some said pe windows may be able to "save" your current crashed os, but i dont know how.
the data in that os/drive should be fine, it just cant boot properly.


it is kind of too reckless to claim near 100% stability given the settings buildzoid has shown in that video.
for ~100,000 read and ~98,000 write and copy at 6200mhz, the settings must be very tight or tight enough or unlikely to break into 100,000 for write and copy at the same 6200mhz.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> I have seen quite a few people who have had gskill ddr5 RGB die.
> 
> I think it is more to do with the RGB part of it. I havent seen anyone report dead non RGB gskill ddr5. Maybe they have and I missed it.
> 
> I doubt it has to do with the voltage as quite a few people are running rgb and non rgb ddr5 1.55v+ and they are not dying.
> 
> Edit added link to thread Bad batch of G.SKILL DDR5 memory or something else?


Non-RGB 6000C36U kit died during training after working fine for months. Really good S16B ICs tbh. Still bleak about it. I'll admit I was at 1.5V, but they weren't excessively warm and I'd tested higher than that previously.


----------



## db000

Also wanna add that prior to the G.Skill 6400CL32 kits, I had a Corsair Dominator 2x16GB 5600CL36 kit (Samsung). Turning the RGB off on those sticks were completely fine, no issues at all. Ran those sticks for a couple of months on the Apex until I could get hold on something with Hynix ICs.


----------



## monday_morning_qb

asdkj1740 said:


> i saw two dead ones in person as well.
> 
> the article is again a masterpiece as it kind of able to show the effectiveness/need of pmic thermal pad.
> dies temps should be the first priority and with active cooling it seems fine to have no pmic thermal pad used//minimal differences eventually.
> you may also be interested in the recent teamgroup ddr5 article as that also contains the temp data of another kit with no pmic thermal pad used (adata lancer rgb).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seems the boot part of your os is crashed because you had not canceled the repair procedure in time.
> some said pe windows may be able to "save" your current crashed os, but i dont know how.
> the data in that os/drive should be fine, it just cant boot properly.
> 
> 
> it is kind of too reckless to claim near 100% stability given the settings buildzoid has shown in that video.
> for ~100,000 read and ~98,000 write and copy at 6200mhz, the settings must be very tight or tight enough or unlikely to break into 100,000 for write and copy at the same 6200mhz.


Thanks for the feedback! I was planning on claiming it was defective since I even in the command prompt, the drive reports 0 free space and refuses to run any erase commands.

In the video he ran XMP 6200 with tightened sub timings. I did the same except with 6400 XMP.


----------



## Raphie

ok.... game over Intel Core i9-13900K 5.5 GHz Raptor Lake CPU Benchmarked, Crushes The Ryzen 9 5950X & Core i9-12900K In Single & Multi-Threaded Tests (wccftech.com)


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> ok.... game over Intel Core i9-13900K 5.5 GHz Raptor Lake CPU Benchmarked, Crushes The Ryzen 9 5950X & Core i9-12900K In Single & Multi-Threaded Tests (wccftech.com)


Game over .... why? Game over would be a 16 P-Core CPU with like 4 little E-Cores for background crap... That would be game over. I cant stand this 8 P-Core lock intel seems to have. Hell, atleast should have made the 13th Gen Core i9 a 10 P-Core design.... SMH.


----------



## Raphie

5.8Gh stock  that's why
6Gh's OC's in reach


----------



## newls1

you can make your KS 5.8GHz on 1 core in a few types of OCing methods... Not excited but of course ill buy one


----------



## iambic

7000C30


----------



## Biosman

i9-12900KS, 2x16GB DDR5 Hynix 7000c30-39-41-28-1T, EVGA Z690 Dark Kingpin (BIOS 1.12)










OS is kinda bloated by gameclients and everyday-software but yeah.


----------



## Raphie

Damn Boi, all the down to 41ns, impressive!


----------



## asdkj1740

Raphie said:


> ok.... game over Intel Core i9-13900K 5.5 GHz Raptor Lake CPU Benchmarked, Crushes The Ryzen 9 5950X & Core i9-12900K In Single & Multi-Threaded Tests (wccftech.com)


we have learned a lot from being early adopters, we even outsmarted vendors and discovered their lies that no big youtubers/media dare to discuss.
xmp as always is nothing more than a joke. none of the vendors (mobo/dram/cpu) is willing to take the responsibility of ddr5 instability, they all blame users who have silicon lottery lost.


----------



## anjunawave

hi guys, i have some problem with my Kingston FURY , i have 4x8GB DDR5-5200 (these exactly : KF552C40BBAK2-16 16GB (8GB 1G x 64-Bit x 2 pcs.) DDR5-5200 CL40 288-Pin DIMM Kit x2) and using XMPII with Memtest86 continuosly errors... i did the test only using 2 ram each time and all was fine (also in XMP mode)

So if i would like to use these ram all 4 only on default settings (4000 Mz..) how i should proceed?

Here my details :


----------



## Raphie

just press F6 in BIOS, they should pass after that, if not they are broken


----------



## anjunawave

Hi, you mean are broken all ram or the motherboard have some problem? anyway F6 my will show the fan settings…


----------



## asdkj1740

anjunawave said:


> hi guys, i have some problem with my Kingston FURY , i have 4x8GB DDR5-5200 (these exactly : KF552C40BBAK2-16 16GB (8GB 1G x 64-Bit x 2 pcs.) DDR5-5200 CL40 288-Pin DIMM Kit x2) and using XMPII with Memtest86 continuosly errors... i did the test only using 2 ram each time and all was fine (also in XMP mode)
> 
> So if i would like to use these ram all 4 only on default settings (4000 Mz..) how i should proceed?
> 
> Here my details :


do not enable xmp, the default frequency of four sticks (single rank) setup should be at 4000mhz.
just go back to optimal settings in bios//reset the bios.


----------



## anjunawave

Hi, thank you for your reply, i already did the default settings… what i don’t understand why just two each time works fine (also with xmp) but all 4 together no… if together only with default frequency…


----------



## Nizzen

anjunawave said:


> hi guys, i have some problem with my Kingston FURY , i have 4x8GB DDR5-5200 (these exactly : KF552C40BBAK2-16 16GB (8GB 1G x 64-Bit x 2 pcs.) DDR5-5200 CL40 288-Pin DIMM Kit x2) and using XMPII with Memtest86 continuosly errors... i did the test only using 2 ram each time and all was fine (also in XMP mode)
> 
> So if i would like to use these ram all 4 only on default settings (4000 Mz..) how i should proceed?
> 
> Here my details :


Buy 4x16 kit, not 2x16 x2 kits, if you need 4x16GB ddr5.
What you actual want is g.skill 6000c30 2x32, if you want high speed 64GB ddr5 that actual works.


----------



## Auzzy

your friendly reminder that not all hynix m die ram can run 4 tRRDS 6 tRRDL. best i could do is run 6 / 8. so if you cant tighten subtimings try that. remember guys, trfc, trcd, scl, and your trrd values will give you the most gains you can possible get on ddr5. primary timings actually are not as important this time around. interesting find indeed.


----------



## Raphie

X4 is not about the sticks, but about the board. X4 is not a given at xmp speeds


----------



## jeiselramos

Auzzy said:


> your friendly reminder that not all hynix m die ram can run 4 tRRDS 6 tRRDL. best i could do is run 6 / 8. so if you cant tighten subtimings try that. remember guys, trfc, trcd, scl, and your trrd values will give you the most gains you can possible get on ddr5. primary timings actually are not as important this time around. interesting find indeed.


I think it's a IMC thing
When I set 6800 c32 i can do 8/6 C30 7/4 c28 4/4 
Twr c32 20 c30 12 c28 4
Trp c32 11 C30 8 c28 6
Trfc C30 340/272 c28 310/260

Tested at the same vdd/vddq
Some times even trcd/Trtp

6666 30-39-39-28
6666 32-40-40-28

That's why I didn't copy other people timings and set everything by myself 

Like C16/C17 on CML


----------



## just20sent

Do we know when the kits with nice xmp 7200 profiles will come out ?


----------



## newls1

just20sent said:


> Do we know when the kits with nice xmp 7200 profiles will come out ?


2025 month of september, day of the 12th @ 1034am


----------



## Nizzen

just20sent said:


> Do we know when the kits with nice xmp 7200 profiles will come out ?


After 7000mhz kits 

Team and Thermaltake es kits already tested by several people


----------



## affxct

Does anyone here perhaps know the number of layers Adata uses for their Lancer and Caster kits? I'm beginning to wonder if PCB layer count on the DIMMs themselves affect termination training in relation to one's particular board sample.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> Does anyone here perhaps know the number of layers Adata uses for their Lancer and Caster kits? I'm beginning to wonder if PCB layer count on the DIMMs themselves affect termination training in relation to one's particular board sample.


"As typical for DDR5, the board has an 8-layer design "










DDR5 is no longer a sidegrade - ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40 2x 16 GB kit in the test with overclocking and teardown | Page 3 | igor'sLAB


Today we're looking at the next high-performance upgrade level of DDR5 memory, in the form of the ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40 2x 16 GB kit. Our sample is based on the SK Hynix M-Die memory…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> "As typical for DDR5, the board has an 8-layer design "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5 is no longer a sidegrade - ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40 2x 16 GB kit in the test with overclocking and teardown | Page 3 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Today we're looking at the next high-performance upgrade level of DDR5 memory, in the form of the ADATA XPG LANCER RGB DDR5-6000 CL40 2x 16 GB kit. Our sample is based on the SK Hynix M-Die memory…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


I legit just looked for this exact article and found the exact same line. Feck. That's terrible. I wonder if my Caster kit is the same. Dammit, I'm gonna have to sell these and get something else to begin testing again. Will have to ditch a CS skin or two.


----------



## rent0n

jeiselramos said:


> I think it's a IMC thing
> When I set 6800 c32 i can do 8/6 C30 7/4 c28 4/4
> Twr c32 20 c30 12 c28 4
> Trp c32 11 C30 8 c28 6
> Trfc C30 340/272 c28 310/260
> 
> Tested at the same vdd/vddq
> Some times even trcd/Trtp
> 
> 6666 30-39-39-28
> 6666 32-40-40-28
> 
> That's why I didn't copy other people timings and set everything by myself
> 
> Like C16/C17 on CML


Another thing I noticed while messing around with bench settings @ 7200 my Apex would sometimes only train with tight tRAS no matter the voltages. For example when only setting 7200 1:2 and voltages the board would almost always train immediately, setting some loose timings with a higher tRAS = no training no matter the voltages and the training algos, setting a tighter tRAS = training. Last time I tested it I had set 32-42-42-54 with a tRTP of 12 which wouldn't boot at all. Just setting tRAS to 28 would fix that.


----------



## jeiselramos

rent0n said:


> Another thing I noticed while messing around with bench settings @ 7200 my Apex would sometimes only train with tight tRAS no matter the voltages. For example when only setting 7200 1:2 and voltages the board would almost always train immediately, setting some loose timings with a higher tRAS = no training no matter the voltages and the training algos, setting a tighter tRAS = training. Last time I tested it I had set 32-42-42-54 with a tRTP of 12 which would't boot at all. Just setting tRAS to 28 would fix that.


Yep, too tight bad, too loose bad
When you're at the limit of your IMC you have to find the correct timings to be stable 

Another timings i had "problem" was WRRDs and WRWR sg 
With c28 i can tightening them more than C30


----------



## anjunawave

Nizzen said:


> Buy 4x16 kit, not 2x16 x2 kits, if you need 4x16GB ddr5.
> What you actual want is g.skill 6000c30 2x32, if you want high speed 64GB ddr5 that actual works.


No.
Also 4x8Gb works fine, i have solved fixing voltage on rams. XMP at 4800 are corrected loaded


----------



## Nizzen

anjunawave said:


> No.
> Also 4x8Gb works fine, i have solved fixing voltage on rams. XMP at 4800 are corrected loaded


I thought about a bit higher frequence like 5200mhz +


----------



## anjunawave

at 5200 with 12900k have no much sense considering that the max support are 4800.
Also i have read that many motherboards have problems in general with DDR5… so i keep safe at 4800… maybe when a bios update will come i’ll try to test at 5200


----------



## affxct

anjunawave said:


> at 5200 with 12900k have no much sense considering that the max support are 4800.
> Also i have read that many motherboards have problems in general with DDR5… so i keep safe at 4800… maybe when a bios update will come i’ll try to test at 5200


A few boards have issues with D5. You generally get what you pay for, but only the absolute worst Apexs and Extremes can't do even 6000Mbps. Every board I've owned thus far has been able to do 6400Mbps. My Apex has issues re-training 6400 1T though. My Apex is pretty bad. 

If you buy something like a Unify-X for two DIMMs or a Taichi for 4 DIMMs, you're basically guaranteed a good experience. The Dark KP 2-DIMM and the Aqua 4-DIMM are the two best in class for their respective purposes, but they're hella pricey. Unify-X for two DIMMs and Taichi for four DIMMs are two amazing options in the $400-450 range.


----------



## jeiselramos

affxct said:


> A few boards have issues with D5. You generally get what you pay for, but only the absolute worst Apexs and Extremes can't do even 6000Mbps. Every board I've owned thus far has been able to do 6400Mbps. My Apex has issues re-training 6400 1T though. My Apex is pretty bad.
> 
> If you buy something like a Unify-X for two DIMMs or a Taichi for 4 DIMMs, you're basically guaranteed a good experience. The Dark KP 2-DIMM and the Aqua 4-DIMM are the two best in class for their respective purposes, but they're hella pricey. Unify-X for two DIMMs and Taichi for four DIMMs are two amazing options in the $400-450 range.


Well, you've luck 
My apex did max 6200 1T/2T


----------



## affxct

jeiselramos said:


> Well, you've luck
> My apex did max 6200 1T/2T


I'm not sure if 6400 2T is retrain-stable. 6400 1T and 6600 both destabilized. I'm selling it now though. Luckily the price of one where I live is quite high so I should be able to break even.


----------



## Nizzen

New WR from Bing today! 10600mhz on Apex and Team ddr5 !


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> New WR from Bing today! 10600mhz on Apex and Team ddr5 !


actually yesterday msi owned the old world record, 10592mhz.

currently only asus gives credits to teamgroup, these new sticks are all made and tested by teampgroup.


----------



## jomama22

asdkj1740 said:


> actually yesterday msi owned the old world record, 10592mhz.
> 
> currently only asus gives credits to teamgroup, these new sticks are all made and tested by teampgroup.


Link?


----------



## centvalny

Test


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Test
> View attachment 2566688
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566689
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566690


Nice 
Haven't seen that brand before. 
Have you seen 0091 bios out for download yet?


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Nice
> Haven't seen that brand before.
> Have you seen 0091 bios out for download yet?


Anacomda is an oem ssd and ram maker from tw 
2x16gb 5600c40 $300 plus shipping frm. tw
I tried 0091. It is good.


----------



## jomama22

centvalny said:


> Anacomda is an oem ssd and ram maker from tw
> 2x16gb 5600c40 $300 plus shipping frm. tw
> I tried 0091. It is good.
> 
> View attachment 2566691
> 
> View attachment 2566692


You should be able to get cheaper hynix with an unlocked pmic in the US. Can find some new for $260 on Amazon.


----------



## centvalny

jomama22 said:


> You should be able to get cheaper hynix with an unlocked pmic in the US. Can find some new for $260 on Amazon.


Still have to bin those to find 7466 ~7600 air bootable stick


----------



## jomama22

centvalny said:


> Still have to bin those to find 7466 ~7600 air bootable stick


Are they new dies or something, bit confused as to what you're implying.


----------



## centvalny

jomama22 said:


> Are they new dies or something, bit confused as to what you're implying.


Im binning hynix m die to find stick that can do at least 7466c32 on air for benching. Some can only do 7200 or 7400 max out with max vdd/vddq, some can do 7600+.


----------



## SHAYAN_al

Ok after some testing the new series of msi bios update (a7) resolved many issues with ddr5. It released yesterday for msi force z690 and before that it couldn't even boot with xmp enabled with gskill 6400 cl32 ddr5 now it boots and is stable. I think if you want to tinker with ddr5 you should update msi motherboards to a7 bios then start to tinker.


----------



## asdkj1740

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA














旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com





PN:
HMCG78AGBUA081N
HMC=DDR5
G7=16GB (PRODUCT DESNITY)
8=X8 (ORANGIZATION)
A=GENERATION (EG. M=1ST)
GB=SPEED (EG. EB=4800)
A=EXTRA INFO=16Gb, LOW PROFILE, CT(0~95C)
081=SERIAL CODE=PMIC Renesas(IDT) 5100


----------



## Raphie

I've just ordered a Torrent Compact White. (non RGB) to replace my Define 7
My define ended up with 2 140mm in the front, a 120mm in the rear, and 80mm for the fans
And no front panel is 5 degrees cooler than front panel
Also based upon YT reviews, I think the Torrent Compact, with 2x 180mm running 500RPM will cool even better
And 2 fans @ 500 make less noise than 4 I hope. 
The 32-41-41-28 @ 1.45vdd work great, should be able to keep running that "passive" with a big 180mm blowing over it.


----------



## david12900k

I would love some help. I have been following this thread since November, but I just cannot figure out DDR5 OC'ing.
I have a 12900KS (oc'd to 5.5 GHz on all cores with TVB up to 5.7 GHz on all cores), GSKILL 6400CL32 ram, and Z690 Apex (2021 - yes i know some of these have problems).

XMP is stable and at one point I was able to get 6400 1T stable (although with poor secondary timings). I have tried copying settings from here and tweaking, but just cannot get anything over 6400 to be stable.

Can someone walk me through this and help me out with what process I should use to try to get this figured out?


----------



## asdkj1740

david12900k said:


> I would love some help. I have been following this thread since November, but I just cannot figure out DDR5 OC'ing.
> I have a 12900KS (oc'd to 5.5 GHz on all cores with TVB up to 5.7 GHz on all cores), GSKILL 6400CL32 ram, and Z690 Apex (2021 - yes i know some of these have problems).
> 
> XMP is stable and at one point I was able to get 6400 1T stable (although with poor secondary timings). I have tried copying settings from here and tweaking, but just cannot get anything over 6400 to be stable.
> 
> Can someone walk me through this and help me out with what process I should use to try to get this figured out?


rma apex.

as a non apex user, the settings provided by others here should not be the only standard to show whether the mobo is good or bad when you apply them directly.
i copied multiple settings from here and none of them works for my setup without further adjustments.


----------



## bscool

Spoiler: 2021 Apex Memory OC Fix









ASUS RMA







am-rma.asus.com








Being serious though I would test each channel individually and if chA/slot 1 clocks or is unstable much lower than chb/slot 2 dont waste you time trying to get a stable memory OC.

Example if you can get y cruncher 2.5b to run 7000c32-42-42 on chb but cha only does 6400 the MB is bad and unless you are willing to run say 6200 for mem you will always have unstable memory after reboots or making adjustments in bios.

Also just use 2t until you get the hang of it 1t is harder to get stable on Apex at same clocks.

BenchMate I liike using BM for running y cruncher.


----------



## Raphie

the '21 board is bad regardless - RMA and get a '22


----------



## iambic

60.000 s


----------



## QXE

What I’m attempting to stabilize for daily, somehow made some progress with it. It’s gonna be hard but I’ve had the most success with these timings.


----------



## newls1

Some weird behavior and looking for your advice please. I was certain my mem was stable as I could memtestpro my OC and with 100% coverage I had no errors and overall everything was great. Loaded up my first game and within 1-2mins of Metro Exodus Enhanced edition I would have strange crashes, lockups, system freezes, etc. Took OC off GPU, same issue, took OC off CPU same issue... Put OC back on CPU and GPU, but put mem to stock and all was fine, so now I isolated my issue to memory of course! Reapplied my mem OC and didnt realize that @ my given speed of 6822MHz, My VDDQ Voltage was @ 1.45v and my VDD was @ 1.515v.. In the hopes of that being my issue, I raised it to 1.490v, and loaded up Metro Exodus Enhanced edition again, and played for a solid 30mins and all seemed OK. Although it seems that was the fix, do you think that was? was 1.45v boarderline Low Voltage for 6822MHz ram @ CL 32? Here are my Current system voltages/temps etc.... Please tell me what you think?


----------



## Raphie

At 32-40-40 it’s to low, you’ll need 1.5
@ 32-41-41-28 you can get away with 1.45


----------



## Ken A

newls1 said:


> Some weird behavior and looking for your advice please. I was certain my mem was stable as I could memtestpro my OC and with 100% coverage I had no errors and overall everything was great. Loaded up my first game and within 1-2mins of Metro Exodus Enhanced edition I would have strange crashes, lockups, system freezes, etc. Took OC off GPU, same issue, took OC off CPU same issue... Put OC back on CPU and GPU, but put mem to stock and all was fine, so now I isolated my issue to memory of course! Reapplied my mem OC and didnt realize that @ my given speed of 6822MHz, My VDDQ Voltage was @ 1.45v and my VDD was @ 1.515v.. In the hopes of that being my issue, I raised it to 1.490v, and loaded up Metro Exodus Enhanced edition again, and played for a solid 30mins and all seemed OK. Although it seems that was the fix, do you think that was? was 1.45v boarderline Low Voltage for 6822MHz ram @ CL 32? Here are my Current system voltages/temps etc.... Please tell me what you think?
> 
> View attachment 2566834


I see that happening as well, in my case I reduced REFI to 42000, looked got better but still happening sometimes. In my case ended up reducing frequency while try to find out what is going on... Will try to increase voltages by a notch and see if get better


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Hi everyone.
I´m still struggling with my setup, anyway after losing a lot of time I got 6400 Mhz on XMP I stable ( G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK ) so I tried to improve it so I start with primary timmings and no good so I loaded the stable profile and after that I couldn´t have stability on 6400 Mhz again. So after hours I decide to go for 6200 Mhz and after several hours and testing I got it stable without any erros. The thing is that I want to have it running at least on 6400 Mhz on XMP I or II I don´t care but looks like an impossible task to do, just the minimal tweak that I make at the timmings screw the hole thing and to revert it and to have it stable again is a lottery.

I would appreciate any advice from the experts around here to have it at 6400 Mhz stable, I don´t even asking for a real OC that you guys do I just want to have it running at the XMP frequency. I don´t think that I have bad sticks although I´ve purschased TeamGroup kit 6400 Mhz let´s see.
My curently speeds, voltage and frequency.
CPU P Cores 5.4 Mhz
CPU E Cores 4.1 Mhz
RAM 6200 Mhz
Cache 4.2 Mhz

CPU Core 1.35 V
SA 0.96 V
IVR VDDQ 1.30 V
VDD 1.55 V
VDDQ 1.47 V
IMC 1.3375 V


----------



## Raphie

6400 xmp needs 1.4 max, you should be able to run it on auto definitely not 1.5v+


----------



## Ken A

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hi everyone.
> I´m still struggling with my setup, anyway after losing a lot of time I got 6400 Mhz on XMP I stable ( G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK ) so I tried to improve it so I start with primary timmings and no good so I loaded the stable profile and after that I couldn´t have stability on 6400 Mhz again. So after hours I decide to go for 6200 Mhz and after several hours and testing I got it stable without any erros. The thing is that I want to have it running at least on 6400 Mhz on XMP I or II I don´t care but looks like an impossible task to do, just the minimal tweak that I make at the timmings screw the hole thing and to revert it and to have it stable again is a lottery.
> 
> I would appreciate any advice from the experts around here to have it at 6400 Mhz stable, I don´t even asking for a real OC that you guys do I just want to have it running at the XMP frequency. I don´t think that I have bad sticks although I´ve purschased TeamGroup kit 6400 Mhz let´s see.
> My curently speeds, voltage and frequency.
> CPU P Cores 5.4 Mhz
> CPU E Cores 4.1 Mhz
> RAM 6200 Mhz
> Cache 4.2 Mhz
> 
> CPU Core 1.35 V
> SA 0.96 V
> IVR VDDQ 1.30 V
> VDD 1.55 V
> VDDQ 1.47 V
> IMC 1.3375 V
> View attachment 2566842
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566844


So, if you reset BIOS to default, only select XMP 1 profile and leave all memory settings in auto, it doesn't work?


----------



## QXE

newls1 said:


> Some weird behavior and looking for your advice please. I was certain my mem was stable as I could memtestpro my OC and with 100% coverage I had no errors and overall everything was great. Loaded up my first game and within 1-2mins of Metro Exodus Enhanced edition I would have strange crashes, lockups, system freezes, etc. Took OC off GPU, same issue, took OC off CPU same issue... Put OC back on CPU and GPU, but put mem to stock and all was fine, so now I isolated my issue to memory of course! Reapplied my mem OC and didnt realize that @ my given speed of 6822MHz, My VDDQ Voltage was @ 1.45v and my VDD was @ 1.515v.. In the hopes of that being my issue, I raised it to 1.490v, and loaded up Metro Exodus Enhanced edition again, and played for a solid 30mins and all seemed OK. Although it seems that was the fix, do you think that was? was 1.45v boarderline Low Voltage for 6822MHz ram @ CL 32? Here are my Current system voltages/temps etc.... Please tell me what you think?
> 
> View attachment 2566834


hci 100% isnt quite sufficient in fully covering errors. 500% is what i aimed for when I used hci.


----------



## just20sent

Anyone tried the corsair 6600mhx c32 that can post an AIDA ?


----------



## Nizzen

I ordered g.skill 6000c30 1.35v non rgb. Hope it's a good bin


----------



## Raphie

Curious what that kit will do. I’ve paid too mucg for my 6400/32 kit, so told myself I need to wait for the 7K cl/30 kits to appear


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Curious what that kit will do. I’ve paid too mucg for my 6400/32 kit, so told myself I need to wait for the 7K cl/30 kits to appear


7k cl30 is far away. Thermaltake has 7000c40 es out to some overclockers now.
I almost ordered Adata Delta 6000c30 too, but I want to test g.skill first, as I found the non rgb.


----------



## just20sent

Isnt all of those kit have high freq and low CasLatency but sub timings are quiet high ?


----------



## Nizzen

just20sent said:


> Isnt all of those kit have high freq and low CasLatency but sub timings are quiet high ?


Have you seen any ddr kit ever with tight sub timings? 
I don't know yet, because I haven't tested this 6k c30 kit yet


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> I ordered g.skill 6000c30 1.35v non rgb. Hope it's a good bin


I think a while back people reported them to be Samsung (I was curious about trying them as well) but let us know.


----------



## Nizzen

Hynix









G.Skill Trident Z5 32GB DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory Kit Review - Overclockers


The Trident Z5 32GB DDR5-6000 CL30 memory kit offers high performance/compatibility with popular motherboards and high overclocking potential.




www.overclockers.com












G.SKILL DDR5-6000 CL30 TRIDENT Z5 RGB J


좋은 디자인과 성능, 무슨 말이 더 필요한가? 좋은 디자인이란 무엇일까요? 이 질문에 대한 답은 쉽지 …




quasarzone.com


----------



## mikasalo500

just20gesendet said:


> Hat jemand den Corsair 6600mhx c32 ausprobiert, der eine AIDA posten kann?
> [/ZITIEREN]


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> Hynix


Just regular M-die I presume? Seems like a boring kit for broader compatibility with it's "low" xmp frequency and low cas


----------



## Raphie

So..... couple of changes

Fractal Define 7 Compact > Fractal Torrent Compact White
This enabled my D15 Chromax black to use 2 fans instead of 1
also replaced NT-H1 with NT-H2
correction frame still installed
I not longer hit 100c in Turbo
I max at 95c in Y-cruncher 2.b @ 288W cooler setting in BIOS.

So 3 out of 4 things improved and it shaved off 5c (or more? as I could only see 100 in HWinfo)

Torrent FTW


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> Just regular M-die I presume? Seems like a boring kit for broader compatibility with it's "low" xmp frequency and low cas


Don't know yet. Hoped for a bit more next gen ic, since it's 6000c30 and 6600 that is released this time. Testing is fun enough


----------



## Raphie

I think they read this forum and realized they can get away with tighter timings


----------



## Braegnok

just20sent said:


> Anyone tried the corsair 6600mhx c32 that can post an AIDA ?


XMP 1


----------



## just20sent

@Braegnok 


Braegnok said:


> XMP 1
> View attachment 2567037


Is this kit the best XMP yet widely available ?


----------



## Braegnok

just20sent said:


> @Braegnok
> 
> 
> Is this kit the best XMP yet widely available ?


Currently in stock on Corsair site, free shipping. https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32


----------



## KedarWolf

Braegnok said:


> Currently in stock on Corsair site, free shipping. https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32


Are they a Hynix kit?


----------



## newls1

Yes sir they are


----------



## Braegnok

KedarWolf said:


> Are they a Hynix kit?


Yes,.. Hynix M-Die chips, with Anpec (OC) PMIC.


----------



## Raphie

Yes, 6600 1.4v same as g-skill just marketed more aggressively.


----------



## asdkj1740

skhynix a die 16g has been available on taobao china for a while.
~ prcied near $70 USD higher than m die stick.

edited: my bad, according to the current exchange rate at 1rmb=0.15usd, it should be like 110 USD price gap between a die and m die.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> skhynix a die 16g has been available on taobao china for a while.
> ~ prcied near $70 USD higher than m die stick.


Link?


----------



## jollib

Who has a link to the latest beta bios for the unify-x. Is there something newer than a65


----------



## DanGleeballs

jollib said:


> Who has a link to the latest beta bios for the unify-x. Is there something newer than a65


A6 official is newer.


----------



## just20sent

Hey thanks to bullzoid i went to a thrash xmp to something "ok" with samsung dies

XMP 6000MHZ









OC 6600 MHZ










Do you have any advices what to change now ? I haven't touch the tRFC and CAS latency as i have no idea what to do and how to do. All i did was copy his timing from the video and increase from 6400 to 6600.

I'm testing 24HR stability now


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Don't know yet. Hoped for a bit more next gen ic, since it's 6000c30 and 6600 that is released this time. Testing is fun enough


I buy 6600 new gskill FULL OF TRASH lol worst then OEM


----------



## newls1

just20sent said:


> Hey thanks to bullzoid i went to a thrash xmp to something "ok" with samsung dies
> 
> XMP 6000MHZ
> View attachment 2567308
> 
> 
> OC 6600 MHZ
> View attachment 2567309
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any advices what to change now ? I haven't touch the tRFC and CAS latency as i have no idea what to do and how to do. All i did was copy his timing from the video and increase from 6400 to 6600.
> 
> I'm testing 24HR stability now


Congrats man, buildzoid's vids are very good for learning ram and listening to him rant! I personally have learned so much from him, hence why i support him on patron. You still have quite a bit of tweaking to do as you left plenty on the table for improvements. Id start with lowering your tRFC to 500 (and tweak that till you find instability) tCWL, RDWR settings,etc..... Keep playing around, you will get to 55ns.


----------



## QXE

just20sent said:


> Hey thanks to bullzoid i went to a thrash xmp to something "ok" with samsung dies
> 
> XMP 6000MHZ
> View attachment 2567308
> 
> 
> OC 6600 MHZ
> View attachment 2567309
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any advices what to change now ? I haven't touch the tRFC and CAS latency as i have no idea what to do and how to do. All i did was copy his timing from the video and increase from 6400 to 6600.
> 
> I'm testing 24HR stability now


I’ll give you a whole table to work with
Frequency: 6600
CMD Rate: 2N
Primary timings: 30-38-38-52
Subtimings: tRFC 320, tRFCpb 240, ttRRD L 4-6, tRRD S 4, tRTP 4-12, tWR 8, tCKE 4.
Tertiary timings: tRDRD sg 11, tRDRD_dg 7, tRDWR sg 18, tRDWR dg 18, tWRRD sg 55, tWRRD dg 39, tWRWR sg 9, tWRWR dg 7, tWRPRE 41, tWRPREN 41.

lemme know if this works.


----------



## Raphie

that’s Dark Kingpin territory, Unify-X won’t go there. 


QXE said:


> I’ll give you a whole table to work with
> Frequency: 6600
> CMD Rate: 2N
> Primary timings: 30-38-38-52
> Subtimings: tRFC 320, tRFCpb 240, ttRRD L 4-6, tRRD S 4, tRTP 4-12, tWR 8, tCKE 4.
> Tertiary timings: tRDRD sg 11, tRDRD_dg 7, tRDWR sg 18, tRDWR dg 18, tWRRD sg 55, tWRRD dg 39, tWRWR sg 9, tWRWR dg 7, tWRPRE 41, tWRPREN 41.
> 
> lemme know if this works.


----------



## QXE

Raphie said:


> that’s Dark Kingpin territory, Unify-X won’t go there.


He has a unify itx and is already doing 6600 with samsung. The timings I provided shouldn't be too insane for Samsung on 2 dimmer...


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> I’ll give you a whole table to work with
> Frequency: 6600
> CMD Rate: 2N
> Primary timings: 30-38-38-52
> Subtimings: tRFC 320, tRFCpb 240, ttRRD L 4-6, tRRD S 4, tRTP 4-12, tWR 8, tCKE 4.
> Tertiary timings: tRDRD sg 11, tRDRD_dg 7, tRDWR sg 18, tRDWR dg 18, tWRRD sg 55, tWRRD dg 39, tWRWR sg 9, tWRWR dg 7, tWRPRE 41, tWRPREN 41.
> 
> lemme know if this works.


He is using Samsung ic  A bit hard timings for him maybe 

Maybe I need to test Samsung again, if samsung can do Hynix timings on air


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> He is using Samsung ic  A bit hard timings for him maybe
> 
> Maybe I need to test samsung again


They dont seem too hard for 6600 on samsung on the uitx. Maybe ill be proven wrong.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> I’ll give you a whole table to work with
> Frequency: 6600
> CMD Rate: 2N
> Primary timings: 30-38-38-52
> Subtimings: tRFC 320, tRFCpb 240, ttRRD L 4-6, tRRD S 4, tRTP 4-12, tWR 8, tCKE 4.
> Tertiary timings: tRDRD sg 11, tRDRD_dg 7, tRDWR sg 18, tRDWR dg 18, tWRRD sg 55, tWRRD dg 39, tWRWR sg 9, tWRWR dg 7, tWRPRE 41, tWRPREN 41.
> 
> lemme know if this works.


Samsung won't do less than maybe 480-500 tRFC at 6600Mbps. Also, those tRDRDs and tWRWRs won't work on Samsung either. Neither tWRPRE or tWRPDEN. tRTP will have to be like 10 or 12 as well. The primings could potentially work depending on how much voltage he feeds them - potentially 32-38-38-52 with idk like 1.55V or something. I honestly don't know how well Samsung scales anymore.


----------



## warbucks

Nizzen said:


> Have you seen any ddr kit ever with tight sub timings?
> I don't know yet, because I haven't tested this 6k c30 kit yet


I have the 6000C30 kit on it's way as well. Plan to test next week when it arrives.


----------



## asdkj1740

..........

















กลุ่ม "Clock'EM UP" | what cpu I don't care, but I care is z690 hero can memtest for DDR7000 cas 32 over 400% no error


what cpu I don't care, but I care is z690 hero can memtest for DDR7000 cas 32 over 400% no error VDD/VDDQ=1.5v; VMC=1.36v 129000ks? WHERE?




www.facebook.com


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> ..........
> 
> View attachment 2567389
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> กลุ่ม "Clock'EM UP" | what cpu I don't care, but I care is z690 hero can memtest for DDR7000 cas 32 over 400% no error
> 
> 
> what cpu I don't care, but I care is z690 hero can memtest for DDR7000 cas 32 over 400% no error VDD/VDDQ=1.5v; VMC=1.36v 129000ks? WHERE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


I want that kit now


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

asdkj1740 said:


> ..........
> 
> View attachment 2567389
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> กลุ่ม "Clock'EM UP" | what cpu I don't care, but I care is z690 hero can memtest for DDR7000 cas 32 over 400% no error
> 
> 
> what cpu I don't care, but I care is z690 hero can memtest for DDR7000 cas 32 over 400% no error VDD/VDDQ=1.5v; VMC=1.36v 129000ks? WHERE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com



Could you post your sub timings as well? CPU-Z doesn't really go into much timings wise.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> Samsung won't do less than maybe 480-500 tRFC at 6600Mbps. Also, those tRDRDs and tWRWRs won't work on Samsung either. Neither tWRPRE or tWRPDEN. tRTP will have to be like 10 or 12 as well. The primings could potentially work depending on how much voltage he feeds them - potentially 32-38-38-52 with idk like 1.55V or something. I honestly don't know how well Samsung scales anymore.


hmmm didnt know samsung was that bad with timings.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> hmmm didnt know samsung was that bad with timings.


Well, it isn't necessarily bad. Hynix is just incredibly tight.


----------



## Raphie

QXE said:


> He has a unify itx and is already doing 6600 with samsung. The timings I provided shouldn't be too insane for Samsung on 2 dimmer...


You’re right ITX.


----------



## asdkj1740

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Could you post your sub timings as well? CPU-Z doesn't really go into much timings wise.


not mine. i guess that is just xmp timings.
the point is 7000mhz on a four dimm mobo.
the cpu is probably raptor lake btw judging by the cache info on cpuz.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> not mine. i guess that is just xmp timings.
> the point is 7000mhz on a four dimm mobo.
> the cpu is probably raptor lake btw judging by the cache info on cpuz.


If Raptor Lake + Hynix A-die fixes high data rate for all boards then I'll be extremely surprised. Will be interesting though.


----------



## QXE

asdkj1740 said:


> not mine. i guess that is just xmp timings.
> the point is 7000mhz on a four dimm mobo.
> the cpu is probably raptor lake btw judging by the cache info on cpuz.


It’s M die on a 12900KS.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> It’s M die on a 12900KS.


Well that certainly makes things interesting.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> Well that certainly makes things interesting.


I mean I’ve seen 6933 on multiple Z690 formulas


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Raphie said:


> 6400 xmp needs 1.4 max, you should be able to run it on auto definitely not 1.5v+


Hey there. Sorry, I was out for a few days and now I started to test again. There´s no way I can get XMP I or II stable at 6400Mhz, so I tried 6200Mhz with a little tweaks and I have it stable but latency is no good as you for example.
I´ve tried everything and at this point I don´t know what to do to get 6400Mhz, there´s a chance of this memory kit being damage you think?

Thanks for any advise.


----------



## earphonelnwshop

Testd daily OC   🙏 🙏
12900KS / Z690 DARK KINGPIN / G skill trident z5 (16x2)


----------



## Nizzen

earphonelnwshop said:


> Testd daily OC   🙏 🙏
> 12900KS / Z690 DARK KINGPIN / G skill trident z5 (16x2)
> 
> View attachment 2567618
> View attachment 2567619
> View attachment 2567620
> View attachment 2567621


Nice job!
I saw you posted this on Clock em up facebook too


----------



## yzonker

I posted this in the Kingpin Mobo thread, but thought I'd ask here too. 

I bought this kit for my Z690 Dark but in doing some research it looks like I'm stuck at 1.435v due to the PMIC being locked on that kit? Is there a way to go higher in voltage or do I need to get another kit?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QS2K59B?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

In all the research I did before buying, I didn't happen to stumble on to this issue.


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> I posted this in the Kingpin Mobo thread, but thought I'd ask here too.
> 
> I bought this kit for my Z690 Dark but in doing some research it looks like I'm stuck at 1.435v due to the PMIC being locked on that kit? Is there a way to go higher in voltage or do I need to get another kit?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QS2K59B?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
> 
> In all the research I did before buying, I didn't happen to stumble on to this issue.


You need to enable PMIC unlock. Every BIOS has a toggle for it.


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> You need to enable PMIC unlock. Every BIOS has a toggle for it.


I looked for that but can't find it. I did find this thread suggesting it doesn't do it. Of course then I see posts like above showing the board running one of the same/similar kits.



https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-Z690-DARK-KNGPN-have-bios-or-can-unlocked-PMIC-renesas-ram-module-m3555510.aspx


----------



## affxct

I


yzonker said:


> I looked for that but can't find it. I did find this thread suggesting it doesn't do it. Of course then I see posts like above showing the board running one of the same/similar kits.
> 
> 
> 
> https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-Z690-DARK-KNGPN-have-bios-or-can-unlocked-PMIC-renesas-ram-module-m3555510.aspx


I could've sworn I've seen the feature listed in the BIOS in one of Luumi's videos.


----------



## Ivan One

Good day!
I finished assembling the water cooling on the stand and decided to see what my ddr5 could do in the new conditions. I got an unexpected result for myself. Used i5 12400. I decided to gain a foothold on 7000c34 as a starting point. CPU VDDQ/VDD 2 1,38/1,35; DRAM VDD/VDDQ 1,45v. Passed M5 Extreme, Linpack size 32209. Then I decided to look for the lowest voltage on DRAM and the system continued to pass Linpack at DRAM voltages VDD/VDDQ 1.35v at 7000c34. Moreover, it allows you to reduce the VDDQ VOLTAGE to 1.3-1.32v. DRAM has water cooling, but even considering this, I can't believe in such low voltages. Is this normal at all? Has anyone had such an experience?


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> I
> 
> I could've sworn I've seen the feature listed in the BIOS in one of Luumi's videos.


I finally found it. Thanks. It was in the OC menu as "Extreme voltage mode" or something like that.


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> I finally found it. Thanks. It was in the OC menu as "Extreme voltage mode" or something like that.


Ah sorted then, I'm glad. Just bear in mind that the PMIC will sometimes have a lot of Vdroop when above 1.435 via the unlock, so you might end up needing to set higher than what you want to see in practice. At least that's something I've noticed from others.


----------



## jomama22

yzonker said:


> I posted this in the Kingpin Mobo thread, but thought I'd ask here too.
> 
> I bought this kit for my Z690 Dark but in doing some research it looks like I'm stuck at 1.435v due to the PMIC being locked on that kit? Is there a way to go higher in voltage or do I need to get another kit?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QS2K59B?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
> 
> In all the research I did before buying, I didn't happen to stumble on to this issue.


You need to enable extreme voltage mode in the CPU overclocking tab.


----------



## centvalny

Testing...


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Testing...
> View attachment 2567668


What are you testing


----------



## warbucks

Finally had some time to play around with the Dark Kingpin board. This is where I'm at so far. Working on getting 1T stable next. Also have another ram kit coming shortly to test with it.


----------



## yzonker

So I've been playing with my mem settings a while and seems like I lost the mem lottery. This is a Gskill 6400C32 kit with Hynix chips on a Kingpin board. I've had no luck increasing speeds. I've been able to tighten timings quite a bit at 6400. 

The thing I've noticed is the kit does not seem to respond well at all to voltage and actually becomes less stable maybe above 1.45v, definitely above 1.5v is less stable. Luumi actually talks about that in one of his videos testing a Corsair kit with very similar observations. 

Any suggestions? The kit really seems to almost behave like DDR4 C-die.


----------



## Abstrakcja

Hi,
I recently purchased a x2 64gig kit of G.Skill Trident Z DDR5 5600mhz SK-Hynix with CL 30-36-36-89 at 1.25v. I have a 12900k and a Maximus Apex motherboard. Realistically, how far should I be able to push these 2 sticks? I am rock solid stable at 1.35v VDD/VDDQ XMP I (had some trouble at 1.25v in some games crashing. Dunno if I have a bad board or just bad sticks). I can boot 6000mhz XMP I at 1.35v, but games will crash after a while. How far can/should I push voltage? I'm thinking about trying 1.4v 6000mhz. Is that voltage safe for 24/7 usage? What is the max safe voltage for 24/7 usage? Is there anything else I can tweak to get the sticks more stable? Im sorta new to ram overclocking.


----------



## affxct

Abstrakcja said:


> Hi,
> I recently purchased a x2 64gig kit of G.Skill Trident Z DDR5 5600mhz with CL 30-36-36-89 at 1.25v. I have a 12900k and a Maximus Apex motherboard. Realistically, how far should I be able to push these 2 sticks? I am rock solid stable at 1.35v VDD/VDDQ XMP I (had some trouble at 1.25v in some games crashing. Dunno if I have a bad board or just bad sticks). I can boot 6000mhz XMP I at 1.35v, but games will crash after a while. How far can/should I push voltage? I'm thinking about trying 1.4v 6000mhz. Is that voltage safe for 24/7 usage? What is the max safe voltage for 24/7 usage?


Hynix is safe up to 1.65V given a sufficient amount of cooling. Definitely get a fan over your DIMMs, and 1.5V should be a piece of cake. Otherwise, the limit will be your Apex. Every Apex is like a box of chocolates, you never quite know what to expect. 🤭


----------



## bscool

yzonker said:


> So I've been playing with my mem settings a while and seems like I lost the mem lottery. This is a Gskill 6400C32 kit with Hynix chips on a Kingpin board. I've had no luck increasing speeds. I've been able to tighten timings quite a bit at 6400.
> 
> The thing I've noticed is the kit does not seem to respond well at all to voltage and actually becomes less stable maybe above 1.45v, definitely above 1.5v is less stable. Luumi actually talks about that in one of his videos testing a Corsair kit with very similar observations.
> 
> Any suggestions? The kit really seems to almost behave like DDR4 C-die.


Have you tested each stick individaully? 

Or test each slot to see if one is weaker than the other?


----------



## affxct

@yzonker
I had a G.Skill 5600 that behaved similarly, except my kit would only do 40-40-40 and never 36s. Funnily enough at 40s, I could run 1.1 VDD/VDDQ. Unfortunately they sell you an XMP, so if you can do XMP 100% stable, you technically can't RMA them. Thankfully that kit couldn't do 'XMP' so I was able to chuck it back to my retailer.

Out of curiosity, have you tried adjusting CPU VDDQ, CPU VDD2, or setting 1T while scaling your data rate?


----------



## glnn_23

Trying to lower voltages here for 7000c34 on my Unify itx and G.Skill 6400c32. Loosened a few timings.

VDD/VDDQ 1.35/1.35 
VDDQ TX 1.35 
CPU VDD2 1.35
SA 0.985


----------



## yzonker

@bscool @affxct Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give both a try when I get a chance. 

And yes the sticks do XMP with no issue. I passed testmem5 extreme with significantly tightened sub timings at 1.435v. That gets me in the mid 50s for latency. 

I could return them to Amazon most likely if I want. I just got them last weekend. I'm just trying to determine if they are really bad (sounds like it) or just user error.


----------



## z390e

@yzonker what are you trying to push the kit to? 

Also have you tried the RAM OC profiles in the BIOS to see if they work either? Assuming you have a fan on the RAM and temps are OK as well?


----------



## yzonker

z390e said:


> @yzonker what are you trying to push the kit to?
> 
> Also have you tried the RAM OC profiles in the BIOS to see if they work either? Assuming you have a fan on the RAM and temps are OK as well?


Well anything above 6400 right now. But I wasn't having much luck with even 6600. Possibly there is one or more timings that don't respond well to voltage. I've seen that with my DDR4 B-die kit in my Ryzen machine. But I'm coming in pretty cold to DDR5 so it may take a while to really figure it all out.

You're referring to the turbo modes? Or something else in the bios in regards to RAM OC profiles?


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> Well anything above 6400 right now. But I wasn't having much luck with even 6600. Possibly there is one or more timings that don't respond well to voltage. I've seen that with my DDR4 B-die kit in my Ryzen machine. But I'm coming in pretty cold to DDR5 so it may take a while to really figure it all out.
> 
> You're referring to the turbo modes? Or something else in the bios in regards to RAM OC profiles?


I know this sort of thing is always cringe and barely ever works, but, give this a shot:

6800
30-40-40-28-1T
tRRDS/L 4/6; tFAW 16; tRFC/2 340; tRFCpb 300; tREFI 65280; tRTP 12; tCKE 6; tRDRDsg/dg 12/8; tRDWRsg/dg 19/19; tWRRDsg/dg 60/48; tWRWRsg/dg 12/8; 0/1 on all dr/dd timings

VDD/VDDQ: 1.5V
CPU VDDQ: 1.4V
CPU VDD2: 1.5V (think it works the same as Gigabyte IIRC)
VCCSA: 1.3V (if your CPU likes low values for SA then maybe 0.95-1.0V

Also disable fast boot and MCH full check but I assume you've tried that.

Some considerations:
On ASRock, TX VDDQ and VDD2 will match whatever your XMP has (1.4V in this case), unless you change from XMP to manual in which case it'll insert its own values to match your data rate. If your board is like that, it may be locking down to TX VDDQ and VDD2. Also, if EVGA behaves like MSI then VDD2 should be fine at 1.4V. If it behaves like Gigabyte then VDD2 needs to match DRAM VDD/VDDQ.


----------



## asdkj1740

Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive







drive.google.com




unify itx
172U3
optimizes for a die stability


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unify itx
> 172U3
> optimizes for a die stability


Holy moly roly poly 😶


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Holy moly roly poly 😶


the joke is we shall see more a die very soon, accompanied by zen4.........
zen4 deserves a die of course, just not from hynix but micron, please.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> the joke is we shall see more a die very soon, accompanied by zen4.........
> zen4 deserves a die of course, just not from hynix but micron, please.


It's interesting to see how better ICs enable the boards to do better. I'm considering trying out Zen4 but idk.


----------



## warbucks

asdkj1740 said:


> the joke is we shall see more a die very soon, accompanied by zen4.........
> zen4 deserves a die of course, just not from hynix but micron, please.


Do we know which kits are already out in the wild that are a die?


----------



## asdkj1740

warbucks said:


> Do we know which kits are already out in the wild that are a die?


not yet but very soon.

btw it is rare to see hynix m die guaranteed especially on a relatively low frequency kit.
or....


----------



## jomama22

asdkj1740 said:


> not yet but very soon.
> 
> btw it is rare to see hynix m die guaranteed especially on relatively low frequency kit.
> View attachment 2567737


You can but 'a' die already on Amazon. Just look for 5600 jedec (hint: Teamgroup elite and creator that was released this month).


----------



## jomama22

asdkj1740 said:


> the joke is we shall see more a die very soon, accompanied by zen4.........
> zen4 deserves a die of course, just not from hynix but micron, please.


I don't even understand this lol. Want to kneecap zen 4 for some reason? How does that even make sense


----------



## Csavez™

earphonelnwshop said:


> Testd daily OC   🙏 🙏
> 12900KS / Z690 DARK KINGPIN / G skill trident z5 (16x2)
> 
> View attachment 2567618
> View attachment 2567619
> View attachment 2567620
> View attachment 2567621


You post the shiny tests here, but you can't get this hardware at retail! Grat, be happy!


----------



## centvalny

Any decent m-die easily clock and stable air @5600c40~c46 1.1V

A-die would not clock better than M-die if imc and board can't scale up


----------



## centvalny

Decent M-die


----------



## newls1

asdkj1740 said:


> Memory vendor and User test - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unify itx
> 172U3
> optimizes for a die stability


i dont understand what that link is of? Is this a new bios?


----------



## Alessandro Silva

Hi everyone. 
I still struggling with my memories sticks ( G.Skill ) and at this point I´m seriously considering to change my mother board. As many of users here has MSI I´d like to know which one it´s the best MSI board now? I was looking to Z690 Godlike.


----------



## newls1

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hi everyone.
> I still struggling with my memories sticks ( G.Skill ) and at this point I´m seriously considering to change my mother board. As many of users here has MSI I´d like to know which one it´s the best MSI board now? I was looking to Z690 Godlike.


no, dont get the "godlike" huge waste of money. Unify X or Unify ITX


----------



## ViTosS

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hi everyone.
> I still struggling with my memories sticks ( G.Skill ) and at this point I´m seriously considering to change my mother board. As many of users here has MSI I´d like to know which one it´s the best MSI board now? I was looking to Z690 Godlike.


If you plan to OC the RAM best MSI mobo is either Unify-X or Unify Mini-ITX motherboard.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

newls1 said:


> no, dont get the "godlike" huge waste of money. Unify X or Unify ITX


Nice, thanks for the advise.


----------



## 0xA1F

Hi all, 

Got 12900KS / Unify X (last bios) and Gskill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5 6400 CL32.
(Always for an H24 stable)
For the cpu, i'm not very happy with my results.
5.3 all cores / 4.2e + ring for 1.28v - LLC3. That's it. All AUTO. Testing with 420mm rad and now Corsair H170i Elite (360mm) and i'm quickly reaching 97°-102° on full burst.
First run of Cinebench = 93°c 
Second run = 97-100°c

Prime 95 = 100-98°

For the Z5 : 
Tested 6400 CL30, 6600 CL30, 6800 CL32. 
Was all stable. For the 6600 CL30, i'm using the benchmark preset @1.50v. I undervolt it to 1.45v. 
If you got better settings, i'm interested 

Put many fans in my case (Phanteks Enhoo Elite), good cooling for the conf. / GPU but the CPU is burning.


----------



## DanGleeballs

0xA1F said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Got 12900KS / Unify X (last bios) and Gskill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5 6400 CL32.
> (Always for an H24 stable)
> For the cpu, i'm not very happy with my results.
> 5.3 all cores / 4.2e + ring for 1.28v - LLC3. That's it. All AUTO. Testing with 420mm rad and now Corsair H170i Elite (360mm) and i'm quickly reaching 97°-102° on full burst.
> First run of Cinebench = 93°c
> Second run = 97-100°c
> 
> Prime 95 = 100-98°
> 
> For the Z5 :
> Tested 6400 CL30, 6600 CL30, 6800 CL32.
> Was all stable. For the 6600 CL30, i'm using the benchmark preset @1.50v. I undervolt it to 1.45v.
> If you got better settings, i'm interested
> 
> Put many fans in my case (Phanteks Enhoo Elite), good cooling for the conf. / GPU but the CPU is burning.


For ideas with memory OC you only have to go back a few pages to lots of shared screenshots of timings. Many Unify-X users on here.

For general help with the board/CPU OC try here [OFFICIAL] MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X Owners Thread


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

jomama22 said:


> You can but 'a' die already on Amazon. Just look for 5600 jedec (hint: Teamgroup elite and creator that was released this month).


Team group ftw! You know who I am? 🤣

You ever heard of rent free? 

Any way, yeah team group makes amazing memory! I'm running it on my apex I was sent as a replacement flawless at 6800.


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> I know this sort of thing is always cringe and barely ever works, but, give this a shot:
> 
> 6800
> 30-40-40-28-1T
> tRRDS/L 4/6; tFAW 16; tRFC/2 340; tRFCpb 300; tREFI 65280; tRTP 12; tCKE 6; tRDRDsg/dg 12/8; tRDWRsg/dg 19/19; tWRRDsg/dg 60/48; tWRWRsg/dg 12/8; 0/1 on all dr/dd timings
> 
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.5V
> CPU VDDQ: 1.4V
> CPU VDD2: 1.5V (think it works the same as Gigabyte IIRC)
> VCCSA: 1.3V (if your CPU likes low values for SA then maybe 0.95-1.0V
> 
> Also disable fast boot and MCH full check but I assume you've tried that.
> 
> Some considerations:
> On ASRock, TX VDDQ and VDD2 will match whatever your XMP has (1.4V in this case), unless you change from XMP to manual in which case it'll insert its own values to match your data rate. If your board is like that, it may be locking down to TX VDDQ and VDD2. Also, if EVGA behaves like MSI then VDD2 should be fine at 1.4V. If it behaves like Gigabyte then VDD2 needs to match DRAM VDD/VDDQ.


Ok, this helped quite a bit. Part of the issue was the CPU VDDQ voltage. Bumping it up to 1.4v allowed me to run mostly stable with your settings above. I still get a couple of errors from a TM5 anta Extreme run. But that is a huge improvement over where I was before. Although going above 1.5v on VDD still starts to degrade stability. I went from 2 errors to a couple of hundered (or more, I stopped it) by just bumping up to 1.52v.

The default XMP timings at 6800 do pass TM5, so I think it's just a matter of fine tuning. I'm going to back up a bit and see if I can get 6600 working first, then creep up on it. 

Temps probably aren't helping this though. This mem seems harder to cool than my DDR4 b-die kit. A fan on those easily keeps them in the 40's during stress testing, but I'm still hitting 55C with these DDR5 sticks despite having a fan on them. I'm wondering if part of the issue is the fact that the dimms sit so close together on this board rather than being separated by an empty slot on my Ryzen board.


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> Ok, this helped quite a bit. Part of the issue was the CPU VDDQ voltage. Bumping it up to 1.4v allowed me to run mostly stable with your settings above. I still get a couple of errors from a TM5 anta Extreme run. But that is a huge improvement over where I was before. Although going above 1.5v on VDD still starts to degrade stability. I went from 2 errors to a couple of hundered (or more, I stopped it) by just bumping up to 1.52v.
> 
> The default XMP timings at 6800 do pass TM5, so I think it's just a matter of fine tuning. I'm going to back up a bit and see if I can get 6600 working first, then creep up on it.
> 
> Temps probably aren't helping this though. This mem seems harder to cool than my DDR4 b-die kit. A fan on those easily keeps them in the 40's during stress testing, but I'm still hitting 55C with these DDR5 sticks despite having a fan on them. I'm wondering if part of the issue is the fact that the dimms sit so close together on this board rather than being separated by an empty slot on my Ryzen board.


I'm really glad to hear that man! It's a Dark KP so I figured it must've been something quirky in the BIOS that was borking your training. I'm not sure if you mean 6800 1T, but you should definitely give 1T a shot. It's essentially free on the Dark. The fact your DIMMs are warm is probably why going above 1.5V isn't helping stability. I'm not sure if it's the spacing though. My Hynix with a RAM cooler never really ever went above 48c in testing tbh.


----------



## rzrbackpic

Hi everyone, do any of you have the A12U4 bios for the Z690 Unify-X? If so would you mind sharing it please?


----------



## Avacado

skullbringer said:


> E7D28IMS.A12U4.zip
> 
> 
> 1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we.tl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't have an official source, also just got it via DM's, new xoc bios based on this version allegedly coming soon (tm).
> btw it's microcode 15, so avx-512 also still works





rzrbackpic said:


> Hi everyone, do any of you have the A12U4 bios for the Z690 Unify-X? If so would you mind sharing it please?


You might want to reach out to Skullbringer. He mentioned it earlier in the thread. He is a known HWbot user and would be a good resource for that vBIOS if you can get a hold of him.

That link is dead BTW.


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> I'm really glad to hear that man! It's a Dark KP so I figured it must've been something quirky in the BIOS that was borking your training. I'm not sure if you mean 6800 1T, but you should definitely give 1T a shot. It's essentially free on the Dark. The fact your DIMMs are warm is probably why going above 1.5V isn't helping stability. I'm not sure if it's the spacing though. My Hynix with a RAM cooler never really ever went above 48c in testing tbh.


Well I spoke too soon. I tried reverting back to XMP timings at 6800 this morning and got tons of errors and even borked Windows. That passed TM5 last night. I assume that's some training issue maybe? Can't think of anything else. Pretty sure I set everything the same.


----------



## yzonker

I guess this is the best I'm going to do for now. [email protected] with timing fairly well optimized. I might take another crack at least at 6600 when I have time. 1T failed so I rolled back to 2T. Although I haven't tried that again with the better cooling and/or adding voltage. It did fail later in the run so there's at least a chance of getting it 1T to work probably. 



Spoiler: Screenshots


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> Well I spoke too soon. I tried reverting back to XMP timings at 6800 this morning and got tons of errors and even borked Windows. That passed TM5 last night. I assume that's some training issue maybe? Can't think of anything else. Pretty sure I set everything the same.


It would be but the Dark shouldn't exhibit that kind of a thing at 6800. Do you perhaps have a screenshot of the settings? Also how did Windows break? I think I've had 1000 BSODs by this point, but the OS is always reparable if you cancel startup repair, boot with usable settings and run all four OS repair commands.

Some things to consider: 

Did you enable MRC fast boot after stabilizing 6800?
What is your VDD2 set to?
Perhaps disable XMP and manually set all your settings, while leaving TX VDDQ and VDD2 on Auto.


----------



## z390e

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hi everyone.
> I still struggling with my memories sticks ( G.Skill ) and at this point I´m seriously considering to change my mother board. As many of users here has MSI I´d like to know which one it´s the best MSI board now? I was looking to Z690 Godlike.



If you are changing from ASUS maybe try EVGA Dark Kingpin. Everyone using it seems to have had pretty good results with memory.


----------



## DBCooper1

Anybody have any information on this DDR5 kit from Kingston, is it a SK Hynix kit?









Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology


Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 6400MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency. Shop at Kingston.




shop.kingston.com


----------



## QXE

DBCooper1 said:


> Anybody have any information on this DDR5 kit from Kingston, is it a SK Hynix kit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 6400MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency. Shop at Kingston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.kingston.com


yes its hynix


----------



## DBCooper1

QXE said:


> yes its hynix


Thanks, just ordered. So I ordered a 32gb kit of Kingston Fury 32GB 6000mhz ram a couple days ago on Amazon, said shipped/sold by Amazon. Just recieved it today and ram wasnt in the package, just a hair band. Never had that happen before, but amazon did a prompt refund. Crazy


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Amazon said to keep the hair band for your troubles?


----------



## DBCooper1

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Amazon said to keep the hair band for your troubles?


Yes, thats true. They didnt want to see photos or anything....


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> It would be but the Dark shouldn't exhibit that kind of a thing at 6800. Do you perhaps have a screenshot of the settings? Also how did Windows break? I think I've had 1000 BSODs by this point, but the OS is always reparable if you cancel startup repair, boot with usable settings and run all four OS repair commands.
> 
> Some things to consider:
> 
> Did you enable MRC fast boot after stabilizing 6800?
> What is your VDD2 set to?
> Perhaps disable XMP and manually set all your settings, while leaving TX VDDQ and VDD2 on Auto.


I can take some shots of the bios settings if that's what your asking for. The biggest problem with Win11 was the taskbar basically got frozen with no icons and no response from right or left clicks. I just restored it, so no big deal. But it was definitely messed up. The OS repair might have worked too.

Could you clarify what you're referring to as MRC fast boot? I'm of course aware of the normal fast boot option (which is off), but not MRC fast boot?

I'm out until next week. I'll update when I get a chance. I'm a little tempted to just order another kit from Amazon and return the one I have now (or whichever is better I guess). I'm not sure if that's really the problem or not, but worth a try. Seems like something isn't right beyond just settings given the weird behavior I'm seeing.


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> I can take some shots of the bios settings if that's what your asking for. The biggest problem with Win11 was the taskbar basically got frozen with no icons and no response from right or left clicks. I just restored it, so no big deal. But it was definitely messed up. The OS repair might have worked too.
> 
> Could you clarify what you're referring to as MRC fast boot? I'm of course aware of the normal fast boot option (which is off), but not MRC fast boot?
> 
> I'm out until next week. I'll update when I get a chance. I'm a little tempted to just order another kit from Amazon and return the one I have now (or whichever is better I guess). I'm not sure if that's really the problem or not, but worth a try. Seems like something isn't right beyond just settings given the weird behavior I'm seeing.


So basically most of the BIOSs leave MRC fast boot enabled. MRC fast boot is related to the memory training. You usually find it in the advanced BIOS settings. On my Strix Z690-F, enabling it again after stabilize 6600, borked my stability. Disabling it again and having it train thoroughly restored it.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Hey some place to share DDR5!! Exciting! It's like no other forum will people buy into DDR5 and just have a faster system. 

Ya ya B-Die 4000mhz + blah blah blah. 

Here's what I'm working on/with at the moment. 

And I have no idea if this is Good or Decent or just meh......


----------



## rulik006

jomama22 said:


> You can but 'a' die already on Amazon. Just look for 5600 jedec (hint: Teamgroup elite and creator that was released this month).


TED516G5600C4601 newest Hynix A-die?


----------



## Nizzen

jomama22 said:


> You can but 'a' die already on Amazon. Just look for 5600 jedec (hint: Teamgroup elite and creator that was released this month).


Is the pmic on Elite 5600 unlocked, and does it scale? 1.5v++v is doable?


----------



## M1RROR

rulik006 said:


> TED516G5600C4601 newest Hynix A-die?


it's old Mdie


----------



## Nizzen

*TED516G5600C4601*


M1RROR said:


> it's old Mdie


Picture?
Or has @jomama22* a picture? Who is telling the truth 

Why are people posting things without any proof? It's not doing the forums better *


----------



## M1RROR

this is information from a guy who works in a TeamGroup


----------



## Nizzen

M1RROR said:


> this is information from a guy who works in a TeamGroup


Show us 


Edit: ... I guess that didn't happen


----------



## Braegnok

I ordered two bars on Friday morning, might have them Monday. We will find out soon as I get them,..


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> So basically most of the BIOSs leave MRC fast boot enabled. MRC fast boot is related to the memory training. You usually find it in the advanced BIOS settings. On my Strix Z690-F, enabling it again after stabilize 6600, borked my stability. Disabling it again and having it train thoroughly restored it.


Watching this BZ vid makes me think it's very likely my CPU's memory controller. I've seen pretty much everything he runs in to. And he says mutliple times hynix doesn't generally hold you back as much as the mem controller.






BTW, I find watching BZ on 1.5x speed to be pretty effective. lol


----------



## stahlhart

DBCooper1 said:


> Thanks, just ordered. So I ordered a 32gb kit of Kingston Fury 32GB 6000mhz ram a couple days ago on Amazon, said shipped/sold by Amazon. Just recieved it today and ram wasnt in the package, just a hair band. Never had that happen before, but amazon did a prompt refund. Crazy












Clearly not the gig they were expecting.


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Is the pmic on Elite 5600 unlocked, and does it scale? 1.5v++v is doable?


Renasas pmic max 1.435V

Pic from zippyt3k @ discord hwbot


----------



## QXE

B


centvalny said:


> Renasas pmic max 1.435V
> 
> Pic from zippyt3k @ discord hwbot
> 
> View attachment 2567897


Btw these sticks are M die. Gnasherrr in HWbot measured the package size and it’s exactly the same. Sorry to end the party.


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> B
> 
> Btw these sticks are M die. Gnasherrr in HWbot measured the package size and it’s exactly the same. Sorry to end the party.


So this Team Elite 5600 1.1v is epic fail? Not the Hynix A-die with unlocked pmic we want 🤠


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> Watching this BZ vid makes me think it's very likely my CPU's memory controller. I've seen pretty much everything he runs in to. And he says mutliple times hynix doesn't generally hold you back as much as the mem controller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I find watching BZ on 1.5x speed to be pretty effective. lol


IMC is a tough one for me to get behind. I've had five i9s, and none seemed to really suck. Even going between the SP 79 K and SP 84 KF on my old M0EAY0 Apex, neither rescued nor compromised stability. It's basically always the board, the kit or the settings. I'm fairly certain that if you didn't have MRC fast boot disabled, that's why your training broke after booting cold.


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> IMC is a tough one for me to get behind. I've had five i9s, and none seemed to really suck. Even going between the SP 79 K and SP 84 KF on my old M0EAY0 Apex, neither rescued nor compromised stability. It's basically always the board, the kit or the settings. I'm fairly certain that if you didn't have MRC fast boot disabled, that's why your training broke after booting cold.


Well I had ordered another kit before watching that video. Too late to cancel afterwards, so we'll see if that makes a difference.


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> So this Team Elite 5600 1.1v is epic fail? Not the Hynix A-die with unlocked pmic we want 🤠


it is infact a fail.


----------



## Bender82

i take this score that a fine score 😅 for samsung chip


----------



## centvalny

Even with good clockin 2 dimms board some cpu's imc walled at 7200 ambient and some m-die ram kit also max out at 7200~7300 with cl 32. At this early ddr5 era better to get ram from vendor with proven track recd in binning process to save time and $$


----------



## asdkj1740

centvalny said:


> Even with good clockin 2 dimms board some cpu's imc walled at 7200 ambient and some m-die ram kit also max out at 7200~7300 with cl 32. At this early ddr5 era better to get ram from vendor with proven track recd in binning process to save time and $$


208a m die seems to be good.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> 208a m die seems to be good.


Seen many new Adata 6400 delta with 208a. 7000+ easy
Edit: Adata Caster


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> Seen many new Adata 6400 delta with 208a. 7000+ easy


Do you perhaps mean Teamgroup Delta? Or Adata Caster? I've tried to find this kit and nothing seems to pop up.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> Do you perhaps mean Teamgroup Delta? Or Adata Caster? I've tried to find this kit and nothing seems to pop up.


Sorry I ment Adata Caster 6400


----------



## Salvadv2004

*salve a tutti, sono nuovo qui, avrei bisogno di aiuto per creare un profilo decente per le mie ddr5 corsair vengeance 4800 cl40, so che fanno schifo e sono micron, ma le ho pagate 170 euro, qualcuno mi saprebbe aiutare ad aumentare un pò le prestazioni? ho visto qui molte persone arrivare a 5200mhz e scendere molto in latenza su aida 64. ringrazio in anticipo per le risposte. se può servire la mia scheda madre è una z690 aorus pro e la cpu è un i7 12700k, bios della scheda madre aggiornato all'ultima versione. grazie ancora*


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> *salve a tutti, sono nuovo qui, avrei bisogno di aiuto per creare un profilo decente per le mie ddr5 corsair vengeance 4800 cl40, so che fanno schifo e sono micron, ma le ho pagate 170 euro, qualcuno mi saprebbe aiutare ad aumentare un pò le prestazioni? ho visto qui molte persone arrivare a 5200mhz e scendere molto in latenza su aida 64. ringrazio in anticipo per le risposte. se può servire la mia scheda madre è una z690 aorus pro e la cpu è un i7 12700k, bios della scheda madre aggiornato all'ultima versione. grazie ancora*


This forum is English only. Pleace try again


----------



## Salvadv2004

Sorry
hi everyone, i'm new here, i need help to create a decent profile for my ddr5 corsair vengeance 4800 cl40, i know they suck and they are microns, but i paid them 170 euros, someone could help me to increase the performance? i have seen here many people get to 5200mhz and go down a lot in latency on aida 64. thanks in advance for the replies. if it can serve my motherboard it is a z690 aorus pro and the cpu is an i7 12700k, bios of the motherboard updated to the latest version. Thanks again


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> Sorry
> hi everyone, i'm new here, i need help to create a decent profile for my ddr5 corsair vengeance 4800 cl40, i know they suck and they are microns, but i paid them 170 euros, someone could help me to increase the performance? i have seen here many people get to 5200mhz and go down a lot in latency on aida 64. thanks in advance for the replies. if it can serve my motherboard it is a z690 aorus pro and the cpu is an i7 12700k, bios of the motherboard updated to the latest version. Thanks again


Try this just with 5200mhz first:


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Try this just with 5200mhz first:
> View attachment 2567959


the tWRR doesn't let me set it below 48


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> the tWRR doesn't let me set it below 48


Use what' working for you 

Can't be worse than stock micron


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Use what' working for you
> 
> Can't be worse than stock micron


ok, now i'm testing the settings that you suggest, but with tWR set to 48 instead of 17
I'll let you know if it works


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Use what' working for you
> 
> Can't be worse than stock micron


Are 1.4v on vdd and vddq good?


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> Are 1.4v on vdd and vddq good?


If it works, it ok  Remember to cool them with a fan.


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> If it works, it ok  Remember to cool them with a fan.


Ok,


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> If it works, it ok  Remember to cool them with a fan.


at the first start after setting the bios the pc turned on and while I was opening rgb fusion it turned off by itself and turned on again, but without giving an error, when it turned on again I started tm5 extreme anta777 and the test was completed without errors. all normal or should I do other tests?


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> at the first start after setting the bios the pc turned on and while I was opening rgb fusion it turned off by itself and turned on again, but without giving an error, when it turned on again I started tm5 extreme anta777 and the test was completed without errors. all normal or should I do other tests?


Play games


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Play games


Yes, now I have restarted the test and it found 4 errors


----------



## DanGleeballs

Salvadv2004 said:


> Sorry
> hi everyone, i'm new here, i need help to create a decent profile for my ddr5 corsair vengeance 4800 cl40, i know they suck and they are microns, but i paid them 170 euros, someone could help me to increase the performance? i have seen here many people get to 5200mhz and go down a lot in latency on aida 64. thanks in advance for the replies. if it can serve my motherboard it is a z690 aorus pro and the cpu is an i7 12700k, bios of the motherboard updated to the latest version. Thanks again











This is my was my best effort with the same board and ram. Leave tWR on auto and use tWRPRE and tWRPDEN to lower tWR further (keep them the same).
Too much voltage will give instant instabilities so start low take your time. Read through the early pages of this thread as a few were using Micron as it was all we could get at the time.
Edit original post.








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


This may not be the right thread though it seems related...I almost picked up a Z690 Hero available at a store yesterday at a great price where I often get my gear. However, DDR5 availability (or lack thereof) stopped me, for now...later on I saw the Jay2cents vid below, which seems DDR5 /...




www.overclock.net


----------



## yzonker

Wow, this just isn't going well for me. I bought this kit to see if I could have any better luck running above 6400.









F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series...




www.gskill.com





But all I get is codes 53/45 which is a memory error. Tried both sticks separately even. Nothing. The GSKILL configurator even shows that kit is compatible with the KP.


----------



## SoldierRBT

yzonker said:


> Wow, this just isn't going well for me. I bought this kit to see if I could have any better luck running above 6400.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V 32GB (2x16GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But all I get is codes 53/45 which is a memory error. Tried both sticks separately even. Nothing. The GSKILL configurator even shows that kit is compatible with the KP.


I'd suggest to clear CMOS and use 1.12 or 1.09 BIOS which are the best ones for 1T. Here's timings you can try. 









Don't use turbo mode it just makes things unstable. You'll need to adjust cpu vdd/vdd2 for stability
Try the following:
1.20-1.30v cpu vddq
1.30-1.45v vdd2
1.55-1.60v vdd
1.45-1.50v vddq
SA auto


----------



## yzonker

SoldierRBT said:


> I'd suggest to clear CMOS and use 1.12 or 1.09 BIOS which are the best ones for 1T. Here's timings you can try.
> View attachment 2567985
> 
> 
> Don't use turbo mode it just makes things unstable. You'll need to adjust cpu vdd/vdd2 for stability
> Try the following:
> 1.20-1.30v cpu vddq
> 1.30-1.45v vdd2
> 1.55-1.60v vdd
> 1.45-1.50v vddq
> SA auto


Ok, thanks. I'll keep trying to tweak voltages. Any idea why that 6600 kit won't post though? It acts like I don't have them seated well, but I tried several times with one stick at a time and both slots, but always code 53/54.

Edit: and of course I cleared CMOS multiple times. I did try the shipped bios as well (1.04),but same error codes.


----------



## SoldierRBT

yzonker said:


> Ok, thanks. I'll keep trying to tweak voltages. Any idea why that 6600 kit won't post though? It acts like I don't have them seated well, but I tried several times with one stick at a time and both slots, but always code 53/54.


Do you have thermalright/grizzly socket frame installed? I wonder if that's causing ram OC issues.

I installed mine after I had 7000 1T stable, thankfully it didn't affect ram OC.


----------



## yzonker

SoldierRBT said:


> Do you have thermalright/grizzly socket frame installed? I wonder if that's causing ram OC issues.
> 
> I installed mine after I had 7000 1T stable, thankfully it didn't affect ram OC.


I do now, although my results didn't really change when I installed the Thermalright frame. I was stuck at 6400 with the original cpu holder as well.


----------



## Braegnok

Nizzen said:


> Is the pmic on Elite 5600 unlocked, and does it scale? 1.5v++v is doable?


I can confirm PMIC is locked Renasas.








However I can't confirm if the DRAM stepping is M or A, this kit shows [ ? ]









I guess for $200 it's not a total loss,.. 6200 @ 1.425V.


----------



## Salvadv2004

DanGleeballs said:


> View attachment 2567976
> 
> This is my was my best effort with the same board and ram. Leave tWR on auto and use tWRPRE and tWRPDEN to lower tWR further (keep them the same).
> Too much voltage will give instant instabilities so start low take your time. Read through the early pages of this thread as a few were using Micron as it was all we could get at the time.
> Edit original post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> This may not be the right thread though it seems related...I almost picked up a Z690 Hero available at a store yesterday at a great price where I often get my gear. However, DDR5 availability (or lack thereof) stopped me, for now...later on I saw the Jay2cents vid below, which seems DDR5 /...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


ok, thanks a lot, could you let me know what you set as tWRPRE and tWRPDEN?
Are 1.4v on vdd and vddq too much?


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900KS 5.3/4.9GHz 7000MHz 29-39-41-28 1T 1.65v VDD 1.55v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.9v SA


----------



## i.bhkim

SoldierRBT said:


> 12900KS 5.3/4.9GHz 7000MHz 29-39-41-28 1T 1.65v VDD 1.55v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.9v SA
> View attachment 2568026


What is your DRAM mode among 1 to 5? And also want to know whether you set the SA voltage 0.9v manually.


----------



## Nizzen

SoldierRBT said:


> 12900KS 5.3/4.9GHz 7000MHz 29-39-41-28 1T 1.65v VDD 1.55v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.9v SA
> View attachment 2568026


Fast! 🤩


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

SoldierRBT said:


> 12900KS 5.3/4.9GHz 7000MHz 29-39-41-28 1T 1.65v VDD 1.55v VDDQ 1.25v CPU VDDQ 1.35v VDD2 0.9v SA
> View attachment 2568026


I bought geekbench3 just now cuz of this screenshot! beast!


----------



## affxct

I can't understand why some of the Samsung kits are so bad. The one I had could do tWR 24 and below at 6400.


----------



## SoldierRBT

i.bhkim said:


> What is your DRAM mode among 1 to 5? And also want to know whether you set the SA voltage 0.9v manually.


You mean turbo mode? I have it on auto. It doesn't really help for stability. SA also on auto (0.911-0.918v for my cpu).


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Play games


the tREFi set to 65535 causes instability, if I set it to auto, it works, but I lose 10 ns now I will try to 45000


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> the tREFi set to 65535 causes instability, if I set it to auto, it works, but I lose 10 ns now I will try to 45000


Are you cooling the memory enough?


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Are you cooling the memory enough?


Yes, do not exceed 63 degrees


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> Yes, do not exceed 63 degrees


That's on the edge... Try colder. Direct fan over should fix under 50c. Atleast max 55c


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> That's on the edge... Try colder. Direct fan over should fix under 50c. Atleast max 55c


I'm trying with lower voltage, at 5200mhz what voltages do you recommend?


----------



## rulik006

Braegnok said:


> However I can't confirm if the DRAM stepping is M or A, this kit shows [ ? ]


Take a photo of IC's
what a problem
H5CG48MEBD-X014 m-die


----------



## Nizzen

jomama22 said:


> You can but 'a' die already on Amazon. Just look for 5600 jedec (hint: Teamgroup elite and creator that was released this month).


nice bait....


----------



## 0xA1F

So, i finished to oc the 12900KS (@5.3/4.2/4.2 1.28v for h24 usage).
Got an Gskill Z5 6400 CL32 2x 16GB

The best i can reach is 6800 42-42-72 for 1.43v
Does it feel good to you ?

Trying 6400 CL30, 6600 CL30 but 1.45+ required, 6800 with lower timings but too many errors.












edit :

*7000 Mhz reached *


----------



## yzonker

I've made some progress too. Apparenetly part of the problem is that I can't run the very tight primaries a lot of people are able to run. I think they can be tighter than what I show below, but I just set to loose to see if I could at least get it to pass 7000.


----------



## Braegnok

rulik006 said:


> Take a photo of IC's
> what a problem
> H5CG48MEBD-X014 m-die


There are no standard SK Hynix IC's on modules, seems to be special run with TEAMGROUP logo.










Generally the Asus Tool will read, show Manufacture info with DRAM Stepping. This kit shows ? for stepping.

Below is an example of Asus OCTool reading my Corsair 6600 modules which are Hynix M-die.

Corsair 6600 modules DRAM Stepping.


----------



## rulik006

Relabeled ic's...
If tool not lie, stepping M.
So jomama22 is spreading BS about A-die


----------



## KedarWolf

MSI Overclocker Demoes AMD Ryzen 7000 CPU Running DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory


One of MSI’s overclockers, Toppc, has recently started to tease what the Ryzen 7000 DDR5 memory is capable of. A screenshot has been taken from the CPU-Z tool which shows that 64 GB of the DDR5 memory is clocked at a speed of 3202.7 MHz with a CAS latency of 32 clocks.




thinkcomputers.org


----------



## FATBUSzh




----------



## gecko991

That's better.


----------



## FATBUSzh

FATBUSzh said:


> View attachment 2568207


7000 C30 39 1T Memtest.


----------



## asdkj1740

rulik006 said:


> Relabeled ic's...
> If tool not lie, stepping M.
> So jomama22 is spreading BS about A-die


a die 32g*2 7200mhz with 13900k es2 on msi itx unify z690
he also mentioned a die + 12900k + msi itx unify z690 = 8000mhz bootable.





旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> That's on the edge... Try colder. Direct fan over should fix under 50c. Atleast max 55c


i've tested again even with lower tREFi, but tm5 still finds errors, the ram did not exceed 55 degrees with the fan close. Some advice?


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> i've tested again even with lower tREFi, but tm5 still finds errors, the ram did not exceed 55 degrees with the fan close. Some advice?


Abit more "juice" maybe? (Voltage)


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Abit more "juice" maybe? (Voltage)


i already put 1.35 v if i set it to 1.4 i arrive at 60 degrees, do i do it anyway?


----------



## Nizzen

Salvadv2004 said:


> i already put 1.35 v if i set it to 1.4 i arrive at 60 degrees, do i do it anyway?


Try small steps


----------



## Salvadv2004

Nizzen said:


> Try small steps


Ok


----------



## Spit051261

Very impressed with the Kingston Fury Beast 6000.
Does just as well or if not better then my Team Force 6400.
Boots at 7200 and possible to take it up to over 7300 on BCLK.
Very good for cheapo RAM 
Not sure how stable but will run GB3.








Intel Core i5 12400 @ 4000 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[t3i1cd] Validated Dump by spit051261 (2022-08-05 05:33:06) - MB: EVGA Corp. Z690 DARK KINGPIN - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## Nizzen

Looks like 6400c32 1.25v is pretty new:
Lower "voltage" is nice.





Kingston Fury Renegade Silver RGB KF564C32RSAK2-32 32GB (16GB x2) DDR5 6400MT/s Non ECC DIMM | Buy Online | Kingston | Free UK Delivery


Buy Kingston Kingston Fury Renegade Silver RGB KF564C32RSAK2-32 32GB (16GB x2) DDR5 6400MT/s Non ECC DIMM From KingstonMemoryShop the UK's number 1 Kingston Reseller. FREE UK Delivery & Returns.




www.kingstonmemoryshop.co.uk





To compare, so are g.skill 6400c32 1.4v 

Edit: False alarm, wrong spec:
It's 1.4v 


https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF564C32RSAK2-32.pdf


----------



## bscool

Nizzen said:


> Looks like 6400c32 1.25v is pretty new:
> Lower "voltage" is nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston Fury Renegade Silver RGB KF564C32RSAK2-32 32GB (16GB x2) DDR5 6400MT/s Non ECC DIMM | Buy Online | Kingston | Free UK Delivery
> 
> 
> Buy Kingston Kingston Fury Renegade Silver RGB KF564C32RSAK2-32 32GB (16GB x2) DDR5 6400MT/s Non ECC DIMM From KingstonMemoryShop the UK's number 1 Kingston Reseller. FREE UK Delivery & Returns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingstonmemoryshop.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To compare, so are g.skill 6400c32 1.4v


I think it a typo on that page their other page shows

Total Capacity: *32GB* (2x16GB)
Memory Profile: 6400MT/s 32-39-39 1.4V
Part Number: KF564C32RSAK2-32









Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 RGB Memory - Kingston Technology


Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 RGB offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 7200MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency.




www.kingston.com


----------



## yzonker

Made a bit more progress. 

vdd: 1.5v
vddq: 1.45v
cpu vdd: auto (1.4v)
cpu vddq: auto (1.45-1.5v)
vsa: 1.425v

The things that seem to have helped are switching back to auto on those 2 voltages and setting tRFCpb to a relatively high value of 500. Still not amazing, but better and seems to be stable. I did also switch from a 92mm fan to a ML120 running full speed to hold temps around 46C (down from 51-52C). It was failing in the 2nd and 3rd cycles of TM5, so made that change. Maybe it helped.


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> I think it a typo on that page their other page shows
> 
> Total Capacity: *32GB* (2x16GB)
> Memory Profile: 6400MT/s 32-39-39 1.4V
> Part Number: KF564C32RSAK2-32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 RGB Memory - Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 RGB offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 7200MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingston.com


Looks like it 


https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF564C32RSAK2-32.pdf



Almost ordered it LOL


----------



## yzonker

Starting to come together. I was suprised it scored quite this high with no serious effort to OC the core. 5.3/4.1

23511 CPU score









Result not found







www.3dmark.com





Thought this was somewhat relevant given how memory dependent that benchmark is. I've been using it to get a better sense of whether mem changes were actually adding performance.


----------



## warbucks

Playing around with 1T on the Kingpin. Managed to get this stable so far. Working on [email protected] now.


----------



## DBCooper1

bscool said:


> I think it a typo on that page their other page shows
> 
> Total Capacity: *32GB* (2x16GB)
> Memory Profile: 6400MT/s 32-39-39 1.4V
> Part Number: KF564C32RSAK2-32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 RGB Memory - Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 RGB offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 7200MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingston.com


Hi, I just received this kit tonight, pretty happy with it so far. Did a quick XMP at 6800Mhz with 1usmus_v3.cfg at 1.35V and no errors. Will do an anta test for later for stability. The memory just barely hit 45C without active cooling, where my Samsung kit was about 50C or so using more voltage. I tried 7000Mhz at XMP 1.435 and it came back with a few errors in TM5. Have to figure out higher voltage adjustment on this Z690 Dark board, just got it a couple days ago. Overall I'm happy...


----------



## warbucks

DBCooper1 said:


> Hi, I just received this kit tonight, pretty happy with it so far. Did a quick XMP at 6800Mhz with 1usmus_v3.cfg at 1.35V and no errors. Will do an anta test for later for stability. The memory just barely hit 45C without active cooling, where my Samsung kit was about 50C or so using more voltage. I tried 7000Mhz at XMP 1.435 and it came back with a few errors in TM5. Have to figure out higher voltage adjustment on this Z690 Dark board, just got it a couple days ago. Overall I'm happy...
> View attachment 2568374
> View attachment 2568374


You need to run Testmem5 as administrator. Your ram test was not completed properly.


----------



## DBCooper1

My bad..


----------



## warbucks

DBCooper1 said:


> My bad..
> View attachment 2568378
> View attachment 2568378


For 1usmus_v3, open up the .cfg file and change cycles to 20. You 'll want to run more than 3 cycles with that config to test stability.


----------



## DBCooper1

warbucks said:


> For 1usmus_v3, open up the .cfg file and change cycles to 20. You 'll want to run more than 3 cycles with that config to test stability.


Thanks, will do. What settings do you change in the Z690 dark to get a higher voltage limit for memory?


----------



## warbucks

DBCooper1 said:


> Thanks, will do. What settings do you change in the Z690 dark to get a higher voltage limit for memory?


Under the "OC" tab in the bios look for a setting called "extreme voltage" and set it to enabled.


----------



## newls1

VDD TX Voltage.... I currently had this set to 1.270v in my bios for my 6822MT/s OC (Hynix) and noticed that Metro Exodus was crashing randomly.. I thought it was my GPU OC So I took that completely out of the equation, and still getting nearly immediate CTD while using ONLY this game. I could pass 100% memtestpro with these current settings but i just for the 1st time tried using AIDA64 mem tester and that crashed immediately!! So I knew the CTD was NOT my GPU but rather a mem issue! SO I went back to the drawing board. Ive had my CPU VDD (VDD TX Voltage in MSI bios) @ 1.270v and always thought that was low so I raised it to 1.310 and the rest as follows

6822 @ 32/40/40/28 2T
1.515v VDD/VDDQ
CPU VDD 1.40
CPU VDDQ 1.30

Just loaded my GPU OC back on and loaded Metro and games for the last 20ish minutes and no CTD and mem never went above 42c. You think this CTD was from the low CPU VDD that I raised. IS 1.270 "LOW" for this given speed? ANy other voltage for the mem you think I should adjust?

Thank you!

*EDIT* Still crashing this game.. Could my tWR =10 be to low? Should I raise that up some? and how, cant remember which setting actually adjusted that number...


----------



## DBCooper1

warbucks said:


> For 1usmus_v3, open up the .cfg file and change cycles to 20. You 'll want to run more than 3 cycles with that config to test stability.


So it passed an anta extreme at pretty much xmp, except I changed it to CR1 at 6800Mhz with 1.45VDD. Temps got pretty warm, but its without active cooling on a hot day. Cant figure out a good place to setup a fan to cool the ram on this motherboard.


----------



## warbucks

DBCooper1 said:


> So it passed an anta extreme at pretty much xmp, except I changed it to CR1 at 6800Mhz with 1.45VDD. Temps got pretty warm, but its without active cooling on a hot day. Cant figure out a good place to setup a fan to cool the ram on this motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 2568470


You should pick up one of these ram coolers to keep temperatures in check: 









19.94US $ 62% OFF|Alseye Ram Cooler Cooling Fan Ram Memory Cooler With Dual 60mm Fan Pwm 1200-2000rpm Radiator For Ddr2/3/4/5 Cooling - Fans & Cooling - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## DBCooper1

Thanks for the link, gonna order one of those..


----------



## stahlhart

They weren't addressable the last time I looked. Cool.


----------



## 2500k_2

newls1 said:


> , cant remember which setting actually adjusted that number...


TwrPRE
TwrPDEN


----------



## newls1

2500k_2 said:


> TwrPRE
> TwrPDEN


you think 10 might be to low?


----------



## warbucks

newls1 said:


> you think 10 might be to low?


Bump up it to 16. Test again and see if it's better. If it is, lower slowly down towards 10(1-2 at a time) testing again each time.


----------



## newls1

warbucks said:


> Bump up it to 16. Test again and see if it's better. If it is, lower slowly down towards 10(1-2 at a time) testing again each time.


i "may have" found the issue.. apparently my voltage setting for CPU VDD didnt actualy set even though in bios I have it @ 1.350, it was still showing 1.270 in hwinfo. So I remembered several months back someone saying do a hard power down, pull cord, press button, then reconnect power cord and let her boot. and sure enough NOW CPU VDD is showing what I set in bios of 1.350v and just gamed again for about 20ish minutes and no CTD yet... so maybe with some luck this was my issue and it may be fixed. I just cant understand that I can pass memtestpro for 100% pass, but metro exodus will bring this bi*ch down with the quickness!


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> i "may have" found the issue.. apparently my voltage setting for CPU VDD didnt actualy set even though in bios I have it @ 1.350, it was still showing 1.270 in hwinfo. So I remembered several months back someone saying do a hard power down, pull cord, press button, then reconnect power cord and let her boot. and sure enough NOW CPU VDD is showing what I set in bios of 1.350v and just gamed again for about 20ish minutes and no CTD yet... so maybe with some luck this was my issue and it may be fixed. I just cant understand that I can pass memtestpro for 100% pass, but metro exodus will bring this bi*ch down with the quickness!


Karhu or memtest pro overnight tests dram vdd/vddq adequately on my settings to be 24/7 gaming stable. But fails to adequately test cpu vdd2 (mem controller voltage) cpu vddq (transmitter voltage) or SA voltage. 

I have several months now with hundreds of hours gaming/24/7 stable without a single issue, but only after I started setting CPU vdd2, cpu vddq, and SA near or at their auto settings. Ie, Auto cpu vdd2 1.4 (I manually set 1.38v...can run karhu/memtsest overnight down to 1.35 but CTD in games). SA I use 1.27 vs auto 1.3. cpu vddq (transmitter) I always set manually at auto setting, ie if auto is 1.38, I manually set 1.38. That stopped all my CTD in multiple games.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Karhu or memtest pro overnight tests dram vdd/vddq adequately on my settings to be 24/7 gaming stable. But fails to adequately test cpu vdd2 (mem controller voltage) cpu vddq (transmitter voltage) or SA voltage.
> 
> I have several months now with hundreds of hours gaming/24/7 stable without a single issue, but only after I started setting CPU vdd2, cpu vddq, and SA near or at their auto settings. Ie, Auto cpu vdd2 1.4 (I manually set 1.38v...can run karhu/memtsest overnight down to 1.35 but CTD in games). SA I use 1.27 vs auto 1.3. cpu vddq (transmitter) I always set manually at auto setting, ie if auto is 1.38, I manually set 1.38. That stopped all my CTD in multiple games.


Thank you, appreciate your input sir. Can I ask a favor please? Could I see a HWINFO64 shot of your voltage settings and mem speed, and maybe include an asrock mem setting pic if oyu have it? I would greatly appreciate it!


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Thank you, appreciate your input sir. Can I ask a favor please? Could I see a HWINFO64 shot of your voltage settings and mem speed, and maybe include an asrock mem setting pic if oyu have it? I would greatly appreciate it!


----------



## Nizzen

opt33 said:


> Karhu or memtest pro overnight tests dram vdd/vddq adequately on my settings to be 24/7 gaming stable. But fails to adequately test cpu vdd2 (mem controller voltage) cpu vddq (transmitter voltage) or SA voltage.
> 
> I have several months now with hundreds of hours gaming/24/7 stable without a single issue, but only after I started setting CPU vdd2, cpu vddq, and SA near or at their auto settings. Ie, Auto cpu vdd2 1.4 (I manually set 1.38v...can run karhu/memtsest overnight down to 1.35 but CTD in games). SA I use 1.27 vs auto 1.3. cpu vddq (transmitter) I always set manually at auto setting, ie if auto is 1.38, I manually set 1.38. That stopped all my CTD in multiple games.


Must be a MSI thing? MSI like way more SA than Asus. Maybe it's just different.


----------



## QXE

newls1 said:


> i "may have" found the issue.. apparently my voltage setting for CPU VDD didnt actualy set even though in bios I have it @ 1.350, it was still showing 1.270 in hwinfo. So I remembered several months back someone saying do a hard power down, pull cord, press button, then reconnect power cord and let her boot. and sure enough NOW CPU VDD is showing what I set in bios of 1.350v and just gamed again for about 20ish minutes and no CTD yet... so maybe with some luck this was my issue and it may be fixed. I just cant understand that I can pass memtestpro for 100% pass, but metro exodus will bring this bi*ch down with the quickness!


Y-cruncher or linpack should find CPU VDDQ errors.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> View attachment 2568504


Cant believe ive been 2 months with CPU VDDQ @ 1.270.... I guess that is rather LOW! Thanks alot for the pics sir. Quick question though, do you need SA @ 1.28v? Ive been @ 1.20 and .980 ive tried both and couldnt see any difference....?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Cant believe ive been 2 months with CPU VDDQ @ 1.270.... I guess that is rather LOW! Thanks alot for the pics sir. Quick question though, do you need SA @ 1.28v? Ive been @ 1.20 and .980 ive tried both and couldnt see any difference....?


I was getting CTD in games using cpu vdd2 1.35, SA 1.18 which resolved after setting both to auto, only setting either one to auto still had issues, (had already set cpu vddq to auto). Decreased cpu vdd2 to 1.38 (from 1.4 auto), and SA to 1.27 from 1.3 and still stable (1.27 SA in bios shows 1.28 hwinfo)

so 1.18 SA not stable, 1.3/1.27 SA both stable, dont know in between, and no interest in trying lower since using these settings for months without issue.


----------



## DanGleeballs

opt33 said:


> I was getting CTD in games using cpu vdd2 1.35, SA 1.18 which resolved after setting both to auto, only setting either one to auto still had issues, (had already set cpu vddq to auto). Decreased cpu vdd2 to 1.38 (from 1.4 auto), and SA to 1.27 from 1.3 and still stable (1.27 SA in bios shows 1.28 hwinfo)
> 
> so 1.18 SA not stable, 1.3/1.27 SA both stable, dont know in between, and no interest in trying lower since using these settings for months without issue.


Just shows how everyone's combo responds to different voltages etc.
I've been running 6800 like this for weeks now:
SA Auto +0.025 (0.950) CPU VDDQ 1.36 (1.38 actual) and VDD2 1.33








Edit. I have gamed a lot like this too.


----------



## rudiausbudln-1510

Hey guys,
I am still quite new to Overclocking these days. I have done it in the past here and there, but now things are so much more complicated. I need help on stabilizing DDR5-6400.
System is:
ASUS TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI (DDR5)
G.SKILL Trident Z 6000 CL36-... (SAMSUNG ICs)
i9-12900K @stock for RAM OC

What I tried:
XMP @6000 runs without any flaws but as soon as I increase to even 6133 MHz it got unstable. No increase in voltage could stabilize it (I tried VDD(Q), System agent, memory controller).
I read that an older BIOS might help. Now I am running 1304 instead of 1403 which made it possible to run 6200 without increasing any voltage! Still, 6400 is not possible no matter the setting for sys agent, mem controller and VDD(Q).

Am I stuck on 6200 or is there anything I can do?


----------



## tubs2x4

rudiausbudln-1510 said:


> Hey guys,
> I am still quite new to Overclocking these days. I have done it in the past here and there, but now things are so much more complicated. I need help on stabilizing DDR5-6400.
> System is:
> ASUS TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI (DDR5)
> G.SKILL Trident Z 6000 CL36-... (SAMSUNG ICs)
> i9-12900K @stock for RAM OC
> 
> What I tried:
> XMP @6000 runs without any flaws but as soon as I increase to even 6133 MHz it got unstable. No increase in voltage could stabilize it (I tried VDD(Q), System agent, memory controller).
> I read that an older BIOS might help. Now I am running 1304 instead of 1403 which made it possible to run 6200 without increasing any voltage! Still, 6400 is not possible no matter the setting for sys agent, mem controller and VDD(Q).
> 
> Am I stuck on 6200 or is there anything I can do?


Likely at limit of 4 dimm slot motherboard. I seem to be stable on 6200 on 4 dimm prime a. I can boot into win at 6400 but never played with it just works good at 6200 so I left it.


----------



## affxct

tubs2x4 said:


> Likely at limit of 4 dimm slot motherboard. I seem to be stable on 6200 on 4 dimm prime a. I can boot into win at 6400 but never played with it just works good at 6200 so I left it.


I don't want to start a back-and-forth, but that definitely is not true. 4 DIMM'ers are capable of 7000 under the right circumstances. My 6600C30 I set like 3 weeks ago hasn't failed me once and I'm refraining from re-visiting BIOS ever again.


----------



## tubs2x4

affxct said:


> I don't want to start a back-and-forth, but that definitely is not true. 4 DIMM'ers are capable of 7000 under the right circumstances. My 6600C30 I set like 3 weeks ago hasn't failed me once and I'm refraining from re-visiting BIOS ever again.


What are “right circumstances” that a 4 dimm board needs that a Normal working 2 dimm board doesn’t to reach 7000mhz?


----------



## affxct

tubs2x4 said:


> What are “right circumstances” that a 4 dimm board needs that a Normal working 2 dimm board doesn’t to reach 7000mhz?


A 2 DIMM'er will inherently have higher baseline capabilities provided signal within the PCBs of the two respective hypothetical samples is carried without issue. A decent 4 DIMM'er should do 6600 relatively easily, an excellent 4 DIMM'er should do 6800, and a top-tier 4 DIMM'er should do 6933-7000. 

If you browse OCN you'll come across quite a few 6600 results including my own, you'll find some 6800 results that are less common, and finally there have been less than a handful users reporting 6933-7000 (mainly good Heros, Formulas and Extremes).

A decent 2 DIMM'er should do 6800CR2 or 6400-6600CR1 with relative ease. An excellent 2 DIMM'er should do 6800-7000CR2 (7000CR1 for the Dark KP) with ease. Finally a top-tier 4 DIMM'er should be able to daily 7200-7466CR2 and be benchable at 8000Mbps.

It seems as though Asus overall has the best MRC for 4 DIMM'ers, but board-to-board PCB variance is high. Layer count seems to be a factor, but my 6 layer board still outperforms a lot of Maximus boards, including Apexs.


----------



## tubs2x4

Ok


----------



## affxct

tubs2x4 said:


> Ok


I don't know if my answer was dissatisfactory, or perhaps too long. To put it bluntly - 2 DIMM boards will always be 200-400Mbps faster for daily configurations provided that both boards in question are well QC'd and aren't exhibiting any quirky PCB behavior, i.e., a good 2022 Extreme vs a good 2022 Apex. 

The proposed issues with 4 DIMM'ers during the early stages were deduced mainly because many 2 DIMM boards were already struggling to produce good results, and a lot of bad and faulty boards were floating around the ether.


----------



## tubs2x4

affxct said:


> I don't know if my answer was dissatisfactory, or perhaps too long. To put it bluntly - 2 DIMM boards will always be 200-400Mbps faster for daily configurations provided that both boards in question are well QC'd and aren't exhibiting any quirky PCB behavior, i.e., a good 2022 Extreme vs a good 2022 Apex.
> 
> The proposed issues with 4 DIMM'ers during the early stages were deduced mainly because many 2 DIMM boards were already struggling to produce good results, and a lot of bad and faulty boards were floating around the ether.


Sounds good.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> A 2 DIMM'er will inherently have higher baseline capabilities provided signal within the PCBs of the two respective hypothetical samples is carried without issue. A decent 4 DIMM'er should do 6600 relatively easily, an excellent 4 DIMM'er should do 6800, and a top-tier 4 DIMM'er should do 6933-7000.
> 
> If you browse OCN you'll come across quite a few 6600 results including my own, you'll find some 6800 results that are less common, and finally there have been less than a handful users reporting 6933-7000 (mainly good Heros, Formulas and Extremes).
> 
> A decent 2 DIMM'er should do 6800CR2 or 6400-6600CR1 with relative ease. An excellent 2 DIMM'er should do 6800-7000CR2 (7000CR1 for the Dark KP) with ease. Finally a top-tier 4 DIMM'er should be able to daily 7200-7466CR2 and be benchable at 8000Mbps.
> 
> It seems as though Asus overall has the best MRC for 4 DIMM'ers, but board-to-board PCB variance is high. Layer count seems to be a factor, but my 6 layer board still outperforms a lot of Maximus boards, including Apexs.


What's so special in your 6 layer board that makes it capable such a high RAM OC?


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> What's so special in your 6 layer board that makes it capable such a high RAM OC?


Absolutely nothing. It's just not a faulty/bad sample. Technically every Z690-F out there should behave like this one or Adna's. Adna had multiple 6667 posts up.


























Two of the above are 6600C30 initial testing and the memory channel re-test from cold. The 6400C32 is just a meme OC I did on first try to see if it would do it first try.

I also have a YT video up where it's done passing 50 loops of IBT V2 with the 6600 settings loaded in case people think it's photoshopped (I can't). It's a sucky situation, but everyone should be able to achieve these results. I use the same settings as everyone else.

We shouldn't look at these results and be confused by how a 6-layer 4 DIMM board shouldn't be able to do 6600. Rather that 6-layer 4 DIMM boards are totally fine and the true issues with D5 stability are related to boards with problematic PCB impedance, bad memory kits, and inconsistencies between the MRCs of different BIOSs.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> Absolutely nothing. It's just not a faulty/bad sample. Technically every Z690-F out there should behave like this one or Adna's. Adna had multiple 6667 posts up.
> 
> View attachment 2568662
> 
> View attachment 2568660
> 
> View attachment 2568661
> 
> 
> Two of the above are 6600C30 initial testing and the memory channel re-test from cold. The 6400C32 is just a meme OC I did on first try to see if it would do it first try.
> 
> I also have a YT video up where it's done passing 50 loops of IBT V2 with the 6600 settings loaded in case people think it's photoshopped (I can't). It's a sucky situation, but everyone should be able to achieve these results. I use the same settings as everyone else.
> 
> We shouldn't look at these results and be confused by how a 6-layer 4 DIMM board shouldn't be able to do 6600. Rather that 6-layer 4 DIMM boards are totally fine and the true issues with D5 stability are related to boards with problematic PCB impedance, bad memory kits, and inconsistencies between the MRCs of different BIOSs.


Nice! I have an AORUS Ultra, didn't even able to boot above 6000. Now we got a new BIOS release and now it boots on 6400, but can't make it stable. I have to work a lot on that, but maybe it's possible.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

opt33 said:


> View attachment 2568504


Hello Sir. Following advice from guys here I´ve purschased an Unify-X and got it yestarday, now just waiting for EK blocks for cpu and ram to assembly everything, is that anything more to tweak on ram that you recommend? Any Bios recommendation for Unify-X? Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Avacado

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hello Sir. Following advice from guys here I´ve purschased an Unify-X and got it yestarday, now just waiting for EK blocks for cpu and ram to assembly everything, is that anything more to tweak on ram that you recommend? Any Bios recommendation for Unify-X? Thanks in advance for any help.


You are going to want to get a hold of A22.TH and A22.TC Bioses. You will need them if you ever want to BCLK OC. None of the other vBIOSES can do it. If you do not plan on FSB OC, just go with the most recent BIOS.


----------



## opt33

Alessandro Silva said:


> Hello Sir. Following advice from guys here I´ve purschased an Unify-X and got it yestarday, now just waiting for EK blocks for cpu and ram to assembly everything, is that anything more to tweak on ram that you recommend? Any Bios recommendation for Unify-X? Thanks in advance for any help.


Im using most recent bios on MSI main site since running 6600c32 2T. If you want 1T, you also need earlier bioses like Avacado mentioned. As for settings, just try xmp first, if works then start copying others settings and walk your way down.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

opt33 said:


> Im using most recent bios on MSI main site since running 6600c32 2T. If you want 1T, you also need earlier bioses like Avacado mentioned. As for settings, just try xmp first, if works then start copying others settings and walk your way down.


Ok sir. Thanks a lot. as I´m not an expert on OC so I´ll follow your advice and then copy your settings. Thanks once again.


----------



## jollib

For those ocing mem under water, What are safe voltages to run for daily use and what temps are you running at? Im scared to go past 1.6 but i also dont see temp increases for the memory up to 1.6. I wanted to ask if you dont see temp change can go higher on the voltages for memory until i do. they hover at around 33-36 degrees under load and just of 30 at Idle. I have dell green sk hynix.


----------



## Nizzen

jollib said:


> For those ocing mem under water, What are safe voltages to run for daily use and what temps are you running at? Im scared to go past 1.6 but i also dont see temp increases for the memory up to 1.6. I wanted to ask if you dont see temp change can go higher on the voltages for memory until i do. they hover at around 33-36 degrees under load and just of 30 at Idle. I have dell green sk hynix.
> 
> View attachment 2568675


My dell hynix stops scaling after 1.65v. I need around 1.62vdd/ 1.5vddq for 7000c30.


----------



## Avacado

jollib said:


> For those ocing mem under water, What are safe voltages to run for daily use and what temps are you running at? Im scared to go past 1.6 but i also dont see temp increases for the memory up to 1.6. I wanted to ask if you dont see temp change can go higher on the voltages for memory until i do. they hover at around 33-36 degrees under load and just of 30 at Idle. I have dell green sk hynix.
> 
> View attachment 2568675


Iv'e taken B-Die DDR4 to 1.8v on air (Highest the board would allow) and had no issues. Safe for water long term? I probably would stay around 1.55v for DDR5 if I cared about the kit.


----------



## SuperMumrik

jollib said:


> For those ocing mem under water, What are safe voltages to run for daily use and what temps are you running at? Im scared to go past 1.6 but i also dont see temp increases for the memory up to 1.6. I wanted to ask if you dont see temp change can go higher on the voltages for memory until i do. they hover at around 33-36 degrees under load and just of 30 at Idle. I have dell green sk hynix.


I have been running my sticks @1.665V since early march (settings in screenshot).
Still running flawlessly


----------



## rulik006

SuperMumrik said:


> I have been running my sticks @1.665V since early march (settings in screenshot).
> Still running flawlessly


Dont forget to tell us when sticks will degrade


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> A 2 DIMM'er will inherently have higher baseline capabilities provided signal within the PCBs of the two respective hypothetical samples is carried without issue. A decent 4 DIMM'er should do 6600 relatively easily, an excellent 4 DIMM'er should do 6800, and a top-tier 4 DIMM'er should do 6933-7000.
> 
> If you browse OCN you'll come across quite a few 6600 results including my own, you'll find some 6800 results that are less common, and finally there have been less than a handful users reporting 6933-7000 (mainly good Heros, Formulas and Extremes).
> 
> A decent 2 DIMM'er should do 6800CR2 or 6400-6600CR1 with relative ease. An excellent 2 DIMM'er should do 6800-7000CR2 (7000CR1 for the Dark KP) with ease. Finally a top-tier 4 DIMM'er should be able to daily 7200-7466CR2 and be benchable at 8000Mbps.
> 
> It seems as though Asus overall has the best MRC for 4 DIMM'ers, but board-to-board PCB variance is high. Layer count seems to be a factor, but my 6 layer board still outperforms a lot of Maximus boards, including Apexs.


almost no 4 dimmer hits 6800+


----------



## SuperMumrik

rulik006 said:


> Dont forget to tell us when sticks will degrade


I will ofc report back IF they degrade, but I highly dubt it since we are 6 months in now


----------



## asdkj1740

hynix 208a m die:
adata xpg caster 6400
neo forza trinity 6400


----------



## centvalny

208A not really special, some of the older M-die clock better and higher, just need to bin individual module.


----------



## newls1

trying new bios for this Unify X and trying out 6933. Prior using A30 Bios I couldnt get this far. Im using the Official bios on the site and so far im @ 32/42/42/28 2T with the voltages shown. Can someone please chime in with the elected mem voltages and tell me if there to much, to little, etc... Im starting my stability testing now, but looking for input as I never will understand all these additional DDR5 voltages.
CPU VDD
CPU VDDQ
CPU TX Voltage???? 

How are these, to high, to low?? 
I understand the Mem VDD/VDDQ --- I have those set to 1.550 (Have a fan over them) Just trying to understand the other voltages. Thanks


----------



## Avacado

You aren't going to be able to get north of 7000Mhz at that voltage. I used to run 7000 28/39/39/28 2T at 1.62v. Try 1.62v VDD and 1.60v VDDQ. If you do, make sure you have active cooling over your dimms


----------



## newls1

Avacado said:


> You aren't going to be able to get north of 7000Mhz at that voltage. I used to run 7000 28/39/39/28 2T at 1.62v. Try 1.62v VDD and 1.60v VDDQ. If you do, make sure you have active cooling over your dimms


Yep, I dropped back to 6800 with lower voltage.. just not worth it for the temps I was getting. Thanks


----------



## Raphie

On air 6800 is the sweetspot. You can post 6933 or even 7K but it’s not manageable under load.


----------



## newls1

Raphie said:


> On air 6800 is the sweetspot. You can post 6933 or even 7K but it’s not manageable under load.


yep, just wasnt worth it. However, I will say that the .71 beta bios above atleast for me, is complete trash. Couldnt even get 6800 to stabilze. Im now on the latest official bios on msi site, and could even boot 7000 if i wanted to and did several times. It wasnt stable of course, but back at 6823 and so far this seems like a good bios


----------



## Raphie

Yes I’m on release 6 too. It runs my settings fine and is stable. 
I’ve changed my case to a torrent compact and even no longer need a fan on the RAM


----------



## ufukcengiz67

If you made a mistake like me , I bought 4x8gb fury beast @6000mhz. U cant work those at @6000 mhz on MSI b660 Tomahawk. Msi tells 4 slot fury beast 8gb rams works @4800 mhz xmp1. But I overclock them, using on ;
XMP2 @5400 CL34 38 38 70 110 DDR voltage 1.315V, VPP 1.9V. 


188% *65.9* GB/s
 

SC Read 23.3

SC Write 50

SC Mixed 33.8



102% 35.7 GB/s
 

Latency 73



55% 73 ns

It works perfectly now.


----------



## newls1

has anyone had any time or any experience with the XPG Caster 7000MHz ram yet? Also, any read this review yet for this ram ( Sabrent Rocket DDR5-4800 32GB Dual-Channel Memory Kit Review ) doing 6800MHz @ 1.35v W T F !... What Hynix IC's are they? That is miles ahead of my gskills.

*_EDIT_ Here is a quote from their review
"We also had to check to see if 6000 MHz was top of the range and found that it wasn't. Using 1.35V for the VDD/VDDQ and Tx voltages now and 1.25V for the SA and MC took us up to 6800 MHz, an amazing 2000 MHz overclock."

Read more: Sabrent Rocket DDR5-4800 32GB Dual-Channel Memory Kit Review

*IM JEALOUS!!*


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> has anyone had any time or any experience with the XPG Caster 7000MHz ram yet? Also, any read this review yet for this ram ( Sabrent Rocket DDR5-4800 32GB Dual-Channel Memory Kit Review ) doing 6800MHz @ 1.35v W T F !... What Hynix IC's are they? That is miles ahead of my gskills.
> 
> *_EDIT_ Here is a quote from their review
> "We also had to check to see if 6000 MHz was top of the range and found that it wasn't. Using 1.35V for the VDD/VDDQ and Tx voltages now and 1.25V for the SA and MC took us up to 6800 MHz, an amazing 2000 MHz overclock."
> 
> Read more: Sabrent Rocket DDR5-4800 32GB Dual-Channel Memory Kit Review
> 
> *IM JEALOUS!!*


That is 6800c40, my guess is many kits will do that at lower volts, especially if secondary timings are as loose as primary.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> That is 6800c40, my guess is many kits will do that at lower volts, especially if secondary timings are as loose as primary.


aaahhh my tunnel vision kicked in and didnt even pay attention to that fact..


----------



## newls1

my new ram test.. METRO EXODUS ENHANCED EDITION! Jesus lord, that game is brutal for system memory. It found errors memtest didnt find.


----------



## tubs2x4

newls1 said:


> my new ram test.. METRO EXODUS ENHANCED EDITION! Jesus lord, that game is brutal for system memory. It found errors memtest didnt find.


Funny how gaming does that eh?


----------



## z390e

also some games like the 3dmark tests have max boost and max mem settings that for some reason if you exceed will cause instability


----------



## 673714

Hello everyone.

I've been here plenty of times in the past, but never felt the need to post before. I am starting to feel exhausted by my DDR5 though, so I'm hoping someone here can help. When this all started, I had a 10th gen i7, on an Asus Tuf Gaming Z490 mobo, paired with an Asus RTX 2070 with G.Skill DDR4. That system was rock solid from day 1, never any BSOD, freezes or crashes of any kind. I just set the bios to either XMP profile and it was ready. I found myself yearning for more performance when I started getting into VR though. So, I went out and got a 3090, sold off that 2070, and of course that system was still rock solid. I knew the 3090 was being held back some in that config, so I planned to upgrade everything else as soon as 12th gen Intel i9 came out.

That's how I ended up preordering an Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme, it seemed like everything I wanted, and I've had nothing but great experiences with Asus in the past. I finally got the mobo in the middle of December, but I still could not get my hands on any DDR5. It was January before I finally got a Corsair 5600MHz kit, but then returned it and got a 6000MHz G.Skill kit that came out just days later. I wasn't able to use XMP at all, and a new 6400MHz G.Skill CL32 kit came out (What I currently have) so I exchanged it. Just like before, the XMP didn't work, so I was just gaming on 4800MHz since it passed memory tests that way and I left it for months.

Finally, one day I noticed a new bios version available and the QVL was updated to include this G.Skill memory. That's when I really started trying to get XMP working but have only had very limited success. I've tried a lot of what I saw worked for other people on here, and even what youtubers like bz suggest. Lowering SA voltage seemed to help a lot, and I could play games for 2-8 hours before they'd crash. Then I saw people talking about the ThermalRight bracket, both on here and Reddit. That convinced me to stop trying until I got one myself. Now that I've installed that bracket, it seems to have changed the dynamics of everything, so that I feel like I'm starting all over again. Tweaks that worked before, don't really help now 

At the moment I just have XMP 1 loaded and left everything as it would be by default, except for 2 things. The command rate I specified 1, and then disabled the fastboot option so that it hopefully won't get that retrain instability thing someone was talking about. It kinda works, I mean it passed testmem5, but the chipset temp runs about 10 degrees Celsius hotter than before, and the benchmark results are way worse. Plus, there seem to be random FPS stutters, or drops in FPS while gaming, whatever you want to call them, I'm pretty sure they weren't there before.

I'd like to run at 6400MHz, be able to pass any memory or stability test, and play games without the random CTD or FPS stutters. It feels so close, yet so far away. Did my 10th Gen i7 build really spoil me bad? Or is having stability and performance both really this hard to get with DDR5?

more info: bios ver.1601, 12900k overall SP= 81, P cores SP= 88, cooler rating 170 (EK aio280mm), 1600w psu


----------



## 7empe

LilOliVert said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I've been here plenty of times in the past, but never felt the need to post before. I am starting to feel exhausted by my DDR5 though, so I'm hoping someone here can help. When this all started, I had a 10th gen i7, on an Asus Tuf Gaming Z490 mobo, paired with an Asus RTX 2070 with G.Skill DDR4. That system was rock solid from day 1, never any BSOD, freezes or crashes of any kind. I just set the bios to either XMP profile and it was ready. I found myself yearning for more performance when I started getting into VR though. So, I went out and got a 3090, sold off that 2070, and of course that system was still rock solid. I knew the 3090 was being held back some in that config, so I planned to upgrade everything else as soon as 12th gen Intel i9 came out.
> 
> That's how I ended up preordering an Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme, it seemed like everything I wanted, and I've had nothing but great experiences with Asus in the past. I finally got the mobo in the middle of December, but I still could not get my hands on any DDR5. It was January before I finally got a Corsair 5600MHz kit, but then returned it and got a 6000MHz G.Skill kit that came out just days later. I wasn't able to use XMP at all, and a new 6400MHz G.Skill CL32 kit came out (What I currently have) so I exchanged it. Just like before, the XMP didn't work, so I was just gaming on 4800MHz since it passed memory tests that way and I left it for months.
> 
> Finally, one day I noticed a new bios version available and the QVL was updated to include this G.Skill memory. That's when I really started trying to get XMP working but have only had very limited success. I've tried a lot of what I saw worked for other people on here, and even what youtubers like bz suggest. Lowering SA voltage seemed to help a lot, and I could play games for 2-8 hours before they'd crash. Then I saw people talking about the ThermalRight bracket, both on here and Reddit. That convinced me to stop trying until I got one myself. Now that I've installed that bracket, it seems to have changed the dynamics of everything, so that I feel like I'm starting all over again. Tweaks that worked before, don't really help now
> 
> At the moment I just have XMP 1 loaded and left everything as it would be by default, except for 2 things. The command rate I specified 1, and then disabled the fastboot option so that it hopefully won't get that retrain instability thing someone was talking about. It kinda works, I mean it passed testmem5, but the chipset temp runs about 10 degrees Celsius hotter than before, and the benchmark results are way worse. Plus, there seem to be random FPS stutters, or drops in FPS while gaming, whatever you want to call them, I'm pretty sure they weren't there before.
> 
> I'd like to run at 6400MHz, be able to pass any memory or stability test, and play games without the random CTD or FPS stutters. It feels so close, yet so far away. Did my 10th Gen i7 build really spoil me bad? Or is having stability and performance both really this hard to get with DDR5?
> 
> more info: bios ver.1601, 12900k overall SP= 81, P cores SP= 88, cooler rating 170 (EK aio280mm), 1600w psu


Different bracket means different force distribution on the CPU pins. This may lead to surprisingly odd conclusion regarding different voltage requirements than before.
But starting from the beginning:

do you have e-cores enabled or disabled?
what's the ring ratio?
I believe you have memory sticks inserted into slot 2 and 4?
What are the voltages you run now (VDD/VDDQ/CPU VDDQ/IMC/SA)?
In general 4-dimm motherboard is difficult to reach XMP at 6000+ stable due to the higher level of signal distortions and interferences (longer traces, twice as much traces as in 2-slot scenario).


----------



## stahlhart

newls1 said:


> my new ram test.. METRO EXODUS ENHANCED EDITION! Jesus lord, that game is brutal for system memory. It found errors memtest didnt find.


How are you quantifying this?


----------



## stahlhart

7empe said:


> Different bracket means different force distribution on the CPU pins. This may lead to surprisingly odd conclusion regarding different voltage requirements than before.
> But starting from the beginning:
> 
> do you have e-cores enabled or disabled?
> what's the ring ratio?
> I believe you have memory sticks inserted into slot 2 and 4?
> What are the voltages you run now (VDD/VDDQ/CPU VDDQ/IMC/SA)?
> In general 4-dimm motherboard is difficult to reach XMP at 6000+ stable due to the higher level of signal distortions and interferences (longer traces, twice as much traces as in 2-slot scenario).


This Strix-E is absolutely rock solid at 6000, but the wheels start coming off at 6200. It will train and boot fine, and you just start seeing all of these strange anomalies in operation, none of them consistent or repeatable. But at 6000 it will take any and all abuse, and come back for more.

The memory is G.Skill Trident Z 5600C40 overclocked to 6000C36. CAS won't train any lower.


----------



## 673714

Yes, e cores are enabled.
1:1 or 100MHz = 3600MHz - 4700MHz (HWInfo64)
Yes, the slots the manual specified are the ones I used.
1.4/1.4/(where do I find this?)/Auto/Auto

Today when I first turned it on the bios looped until it went into safe mode and booted at 4000MHz. Immediately shutting it off and booting again, it started in 6400MHz again with no changes made and no problem. Like it doesn’t like being cold now?

*when set to auto SA ends up around 1.23v, memory controller ends up around 1.368


----------



## just20sent

My gaming strix F was unstable with some 6000Mhz CL40, same kit is working fine on 2 slot motherboard.


----------



## anubis1127

DBCooper1 said:


> So it passed an anta extreme at pretty much xmp, except I changed it to CR1 at 6800Mhz with 1.45VDD. Temps got pretty warm, but its without active cooling on a hot day. Cant figure out a good place to setup a fan to cool the ram on this motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 2568470


I just got the same board and similar memory kit, the non-RGB version. Thanks for posting your results, I was working on tweaking 6400 XMP with tighter timings, but decided to give 6800mts a try after seeing your post here. Had to give it more voltage, but so far it seems good.


----------



## DBCooper1

anubis1127 said:


> I just got the same board and similar memory kit, the non-RGB version. Thanks for posting your results, I was working on tweaking 6400 XMP with tighter timings, but decided to give 6800mts a try after seeing your post here. Had to give it more voltage, but so far it seems good.


No problem. I'm pretty much an overclocking rookie, but it's fun to get the most out of what setup you have. I followed a lot of really good posts on here that helped me out quite a bit. The latest setup I have is below, and has been stable for every game/benchmark I used so far. I set my 12900k with a ratio at 55x2,54x3,53x4,52x5,51x6 and 50x8. I also set my v/f point 6 at +20, and point 7 at +140 using enhanced c states. This is pretty much how I had my asus z690 board setup. It wont get my the highest scores in multi core, but gives me a pretty good balance in multi as well as single score performance. The temps are pretty good, but with the dark board it appears you cannot control PL1/PL2 in the bios.


----------



## IronAge

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557598911384416256


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557598911384416256


I just can't find it useful. You can't just change one ic on the dimm. Atleast not a easy way 

Maybe I failed to understand what it's all about?


----------



## IronAge

it should at least be more reliable than testing random cells on multiple ICs with games. 

you are aware that vendors (like Corsair) already have binned single memory ICs for extreme OC modules like over 10 years ago.



Spoiler


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> you are aware that there are vendors (like Corsair) already binned single memory ICs for extreme OC modules like over 10 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yes


----------



## SuperMumrik

IronAge said:


> you are aware that vendors (like Corsair) already have binned single memory ICs for extreme OC modules like over 10 years ago.


All vendors, but g.skill it seems(ddr5) 
All my G.skill d5 kits got either one "good or ok" and one "decent or plain bad" stick in it...


----------



## IronAge

the detection does not rely on on-Die ECC but on memory address decoding.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

Can someone explain me better how the relationship between tWR, tWTR_S/L, tWRRD_SG/DG times works?

Here I set tWR in BIOS to 14, but it shows me 15. tWTR_L/S, I can't go below 24 and 10 respectively. What I put below that in the BIOS will show me 24 and 10 independently. I saw something related to those times that are all connected to each other.


----------



## yzonker

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Can someone explain me better how the relationship between tWR, tWTR_S/L, tWRRD_SG/DG times works?
> 
> Here I set tWR in BIOS to 14, but it shows me 15. tWTR_L/S, I can't go below 24 and 10 respectively. What I put below that in the BIOS will show me 24 and 10 independently. I saw something related to those times that are all connected to each other.


Might watch this vid. Although like he says in the video, it doesn't really eliminate the painstaking trial and error of mem tuning.


----------



## QXE

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Can someone explain me better how the relationship between tWR, tWTR_S/L, tWRRD_SG/DG times works?
> 
> Here I set tWR in BIOS to 14, but it shows me 15. tWTR_L/S, I can't go below 24 and 10 respectively. What I put below that in the BIOS will show me 24 and 10 independently. I saw something related to those times that are all connected to each other.


You have to set tWRPRE and tWRPREN to set tWR. tWTR timing registers dont exist on alder lake so you dont need to worry about them.


----------



## QXE

QXE said:


> You have to set tWRPRE and tWRPREN to set tWR. tWTR timing registers dont exist on alder lake so you dont need to worry about them.


Here is a good OC for the latest bios on the dark


----------



## newls1

cheese and rice.... that z690 dark board is crazy good with memory


----------



## sugi0lover

QXE said:


> Here is a good OC for the latest bios on the dark
> View attachment 2568980


Good job! My friend an I tested CL29 of Dark MB and it's actually the same as CL30. It just looks better


----------



## QXE

sugi0lover said:


> Good job! My friend an I tested CL29 of Dark MB and it's actually the same as CL30. It just looks better


On the latest bios CL30 will error but CL29 is stable. 1.12/1.09/1.07 will need CL30.

edit: second question, has your friend let you use your golden bin dimms and cpu to achieve 7200 1T?😅


----------



## sugi0lover

QXE said:


> On the latest bios CL30 will error but CL29 is stable. 1.12/1.09/1.07 will need CL30.
> 
> edit: second question, has your friend let you use your golden bin dimms and cpu to achieve 7200 1T?😅


Nope. He has a general SP104 12900K, but its imc is not that great, so he has hard time to achieve 7200 1T. 
7100 1T and a little above has been done afaik.


----------



## QXE

sugi0lover said:


> Nope. He has a general SP104 12900K, but its imc is not that great, so he has hard time to achieve 7200 1T.
> 7100 1T and a little above has been done afaik.











I got somewhat stable 7200 1T. Never progressed much further.


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> Here is a good OC for the latest bios on the dark
> View attachment 2568980


This is not "good", you litterally nailed it 
Very good run 😎
Nice job!


----------



## sugi0lover

a good 4 slot MB(Z690 Extreme) Ram OC result posted by a guy.
He couldn't oc his ram to 6800 with old 4800 cl40 sticks, 
but he bought 6600 CL34 GSkill kit and added Noctua Industrial 3000rpm Fan(set rpm to 60%) 
- SA 1.10 VDD 1.580 VDDQ 1.550 MC 1.375


----------



## _AntLionBR_

yzonker said:


> Might watch this vid. Although like he says in the video, it doesn't really eliminate the painstaking trial and error of mem tuning.


Thanks for the video, I will watch it!




QXE said:


> You have to set tWRPRE and tWRPREN to set tWR. tWTR timing registers dont exist on alder lake so you dont need to worry about them.


I have to define tWRPRE and tWRPDEN first, it? Do i leave the tWR in AUTO? What would be a good timing for me to try? Looking in the BIOS, tWRPRE marks 50 and tWRPDEN marks 51. About tWTR can i leave it in AUTO then, since it doesn't influence anything on the Z690?


----------



## Nizzen

_AntLionBR_ said:


> Thanks for the video, I will watch it!
> 
> 
> 
> I have to define tWRPRE and tWRPDEN first, it? Do i leave the tWR in AUTO? What would be a good timing for me to try? Looking in the BIOS, tWRPRE marks 50 and tWRPDEN marks 51. About tWTR can i leave it in AUTO then, since it doesn't influence anything on the Z690?


Try tWRPRE = 42 and tWRPDEN = 39. Twr= Auto.


----------



## 2500k_2

_AntLionBR_ said:


> I have to define tWRPRE and tWRPDEN first, it? Do i leave the tWR in AUTO? What would be a good timing for me to try? Looking in the BIOS, tWRPRE marks 50 and tWRPDEN marks 51. About tWTR can i leave it in AUTO then, since it doesn't influence anything on the Z690?


Try twr - 0


----------



## KedarWolf

Amazon.com: EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard : Electronics


Buy EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard: Motherboards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





40% off today. $499.99


----------



## 673714

KedarWolf said:


> 40% off today. $499.99


Too bad it's too late to get a refund for my Maximus Extreme. I wouldn't hesitate for a second on a deal like that for that mobo


----------



## 673714

sugi0lover said:


> a good 4 slot MB(Z690 Extreme) Ram OC result posted by a guy...


 Oh, is 1505 a better bios? I thought I was having better results with 1601.


----------



## newls1

KedarWolf said:


> Amazon.com: EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, Intel Motherboard: Motherboards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40% off today. $499.99


same price on their website too


----------



## sugi0lover

LilOliVert said:


> Oh, is 1505 a better bios? I thought I was having better results with 1601.


don't know why he used 1505. Anyway, I like this 1701 bios.








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


I'm using a Hero board currently mounted with an Alf2 360. Unlike the flexibility of my Z73 and Ryujin 2 backplates the Artic backplate is solid of course and in my case of having a bow in the mobo, a pain to get even. Idle and ram were no issue, but higher than expected temps under stress...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Nizzen

Testing the new G.skill 6000c30 (1701 bios) on air:
Way better "voltage" than my old Green Dell 









-----------
7200 same settings 1.6v/1.56v/1.4vmc (still Air)
Just stable for benchmarks


----------



## stahlhart

sugi0lover said:


> don't know why he used 1505. Anyway, I like this 1701 bios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> I'm using a Hero board currently mounted with an Alf2 360. Unlike the flexibility of my Z73 and Ryujin 2 backplates the Artic backplate is solid of course and in my case of having a bow in the mobo, a pain to get even. Idle and ram were no issue, but higher than expected temps under stress...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Will 1701 be made available for the Strix? I am still on 1304 on my E -- I tried 1505 once, and I had bad luck with it (if I recall now, I think that it drove my temperatures out of control at the same OC settings that were previously stable).

I have no intention of installing RL on this board -- if/when I go that route, I'll more than likely go with a higher performance 790 board and give this mobo/CPU/RAM combo together as an upgrade for Mrs. stahlhart's 12600K.

Are there any gains to be made, or am I better off just keeping it at 1304 in this situation, if the RAM isn't a faster kit and the CPU is going to remain ADL? Or could it possibly improve stability for a 6400 upgrade?


----------



## 673714

sugi0lover said:


> don't know why he used 1505. Anyway, I like this 1701 bios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> I'm using a Hero board currently mounted with an Alf2 360. Unlike the flexibility of my Z73 and Ryujin 2 backplates the Artic backplate is solid of course and in my case of having a bow in the mobo, a pain to get even. Idle and ram were no issue, but higher than expected temps under stress...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thank you for that. If nothing else, the AI overclocker works even better. In 1601 it did 5.4GHz P cores, 1701 is doing 5.5GHz.  Next is trying to get XMP working I guess


----------



## warbucks

QXE said:


> Here is a good OC for the latest bios on the dark
> View attachment 2568980


What are your voltages for CPU VDDQ (TX) and VDD2?


----------



## QXE

warbucks said:


> What are your voltages for CPU VDDQ (TX) and VDD2?


VDDQTX 1.3 and VDD2 is 1.35


----------



## sugi0lover

stahlhart said:


> Will 1701 be made available for the Strix? I am still on 1304 on my E -- I tried 1505 once, and I had bad luck with it (if I recall now, I think that it drove my temperatures out of control at the same OC settings that were previously stable).
> 
> I have no intention of installing RL on this board -- if/when I go that route, I'll more than likely go with a higher performance 790 board and give this mobo/CPU/RAM combo together as an upgrade for Mrs. stahlhart's 12600K.
> 
> Are there any gains to be made, or am I better off just keeping it at 1304 in this situation, if the RAM isn't a faster kit and the CPU is going to remain ADL? Or could it possibly improve stability for a 6400 upgrade?


I just linked the post that Nizzen posted.
Maybe Nizzen can answer to the availability for the Strix


----------



## Alberto_It

sugi0lover said:


> don't know why he used 1505. Anyway, I like this 1701 bios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> I'm using a Hero board currently mounted with an Alf2 360. Unlike the flexibility of my Z73 and Ryujin 2 backplates the Artic backplate is solid of course and in my case of having a bow in the mobo, a pain to get even. Idle and ram were no issue, but higher than expected temps under stress...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


@Nizzen do you know /ask when the 1701 bios will be available on official Asus website? OK you can answer me that is the same, but I would be happier for the maximus Z690 Extreme (1200€ board) if it is on the official website (the support and warranty don't cover beta bios) 

Thanks


----------



## FATBUSzh

Quick run on SK ADie sticks


----------



## Nizzen

FATBUSzh said:


> View attachment 2569136
> 
> View attachment 2569135
> Quick run on SK ADie sticks


Where is the rest of the info?


----------



## FATBUSzh

Nizzen said:


> Where is the rest of the info?


What infos?


----------



## newls1

Is there currently any ram kits using this "A" die hynix yet?


----------



## FATBUSzh

newls1 said:


> Is there currently any ram kits using this "A" die hynix yet?


 Adie is available on these hynix 5600 jedec sticks. It's available in China already ,but I don't know about other places.


----------



## Nizzen

FATBUSzh said:


> What infos?


Hwinfo all voltages, where dimms are bought etc 
We want everything


----------



## FATBUSzh

Nizzen said:


> Hwinfo all voltages, where dimms are bought etc
> We want everything


I bought them on aliexpress.I will post the votage and spd info a bit later]


----------



## matique

FATBUSzh said:


> I bought them on aliexpress.I will post the votage and spd info a bit later]


Link for purchase? 😁


----------



## rulik006

FATBUSzh said:


> I bought them on aliexpress.I will post the votage and spd info a bit later]


no, they not available at Taobao or Ali.
HMCG78AGBUA081N
HMCG78AGBUA084N


----------



## FATBUSzh

rulik006 said:


> no, they not available at Taobao or Ali.
> HMCG78AGBUA081N
> HMCG78AGBUA084N


I bought them on Xianyu, a APP belongs to Ali. So I just call it Ali. (LOL


----------



## rulik006

FATBUSzh said:


> I bought them on Xianyu, a APP belongs to Ali. So I just call it Ali. (LOL


Its taobao2, meant for used stuff (private non bussiness lots)

Kinda expensive for now
900-950 RMB A-die












Spoiler: 2x32 3400rmb + Dominators heatsink copy


----------



## FATBUSzh




----------



## 673714

I don’t know if there’s anyone else here with a 12900k, Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Extreme, and G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK, but if you’ve been able to get 6400MHz stable I’d like to know what settings you used. If not, this is the closest I’ve come yet, hope it helps. I just copied the settings BZ used in this video for 6200MHz and dropped the CL as low as I could. 30 failed, so I tried 32 and it passed over an hour AIDA64 extreme stress test.


----------



## z390e

Aren't the ASUS Maximus Extreme boards just as prone to XMP failures as the Apexes? I thought there were a few people here on OC posting about repeated issues with their Maximus Extremes.


----------



## asdkj1740

rulik006 said:


> Its taobao2, meant for used stuff (private non bussiness lots)
> 
> Kinda expensive for now
> 900-950 RMB A-die
> View attachment 2569152
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 2x32 3400rmb + Dominators heatsink copy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569151
> 
> View attachment 2569150


i just typed hynix a die 5600 ddr5 on the search bar of taobao and i saw a shop selling that.
but it is asking 2099rmb for two sticks of 16g 5600mhz.
you should grab that 950rmb ones.

btw i just saw a photo of 100% passed of hynix a die 8000mhz.


----------



## 673714

z390e said:


> Aren't the ASUS Maximus Extreme boards just as prone to XMP failures as the Apexes? I thought there were a few people here on OC posting about repeated issues with their Maximus Extremes.


I don’t know what to say about that. I was told anything above 6000MHz is difficult for 4 slot boards. From my experience with this one, it seems like I just haven’t found the right voltage settings. The XMP calls for 1.4v, but that’s what 6200MHz requires to be stable. Where the 6200MHz XMP calls for 1.3v, but when tested, that combo isn’t stable either.


----------



## QXE

asdkj1740 said:


> i just typed hynix a die 5600 ddr5 on the search bar of taobao and i saw a shop selling that.
> but it is asking 2099rmb for two sticks of 16g 5600mhz.
> you should grab that 950rmb ones.
> 
> btw i just saw a photo of 100% passed of hynix a die 8000mhz.


mind sharing?


----------



## LazyGamer

LilOliVert said:


> I don’t know what to say about that. I was told anything above 6000MHz is difficult for 4 slot boards. From my experience with this one, it seems like I just haven’t found the right voltage settings. The XMP calls for 1.4v, but that’s what 6200MHz requires to be stable. Where the 6200MHz XMP calls for 1.3v, but when tested, that combo isn’t stable either.


I'm slowly working on a Hynix kit with my MEG Z690 ACE - been able to post up to 6600MT/s, but stabilization is another matter. One thing I will say from having had worked with the G.Skill kit you're using, though, is that they run hot and need active cooling. That set has been loaned out to a board reviewer, and in the meantime I've been using a set of Corsair Dominator 6200 C36. XMP is stable, perhaps with a voltage boost, and for 6400 I'm using MSI's 'Memory Try It!' function at 6400 C40 to start. The Dominators run significantly cooler than the G.Skill kits I've used.


----------



## 673714

LazyGamer said:


> I'm slowly working on a Hynix kit with my MEG Z690 ACE - been able to post up to 6600MT/s, but stabilization is another matter. One thing I will say from having had worked with the G.Skill kit you're using, though, is that they run hot and need active cooling. That set has been loaned out to a board reviewer, and in the meantime I've been using a set of Corsair Dominator 6200 C36. XMP is stable, perhaps with a voltage boost, and for 6400 I'm using MSI's 'Memory Try It!' function at 6400 C40 to start. The Dominators run significantly cooler than the G.Skill kits I've used.


Yep, had mine boot all the way into windows at 6800MHz, but BSOD trying to login so I quit 
Tried 6600MHz CR1, but it was only just stable enough for email/browsing so I gave up. No game would stay on more than a few minutes and it would fail any memory test, so I went back down in MHz after just a few attempts. I did feel like that was a sign my motherboard wasn't bad though.

Speaking of heat, I suspected the PMIC was getting too hot, because I seemed to have most failures at or above 55 c. Later found out there's a sensor/warning for it, and upon checking, even though they do run hot, @6400MHz it wasn't overheating that was causing my games to crash to desktop. Now temps are often 55-60 c, as high as 65 c with no issues or errors, so I feel like I'd only need extra cooling if I want to go above XMP speed. I do have above average airflow though, I filled the case with 7x 140mm and 3x 120mm fans when I built it


----------



## sugi0lover

asdkj1740 said:


> i just typed hynix a die 5600 ddr5 on the search bar of taobao and i saw a shop selling that.
> but it is asking 2099rmb for two sticks of 16g 5600mhz.
> you should grab that 950rmb ones.
> 
> btw i just saw a photo of 100% passed of hynix a die 8000mhz.


My friend talked to the seller, and he said that 950rmb can do 7000 easily and 1100rmb one can do 8000, which was posted here.
Here is the link for 1100rmb ones and the remaining stock is 9 just for your reference.
After the stock is gone, the seller said the price will go up to 1300rmb.

[Update] 950rmb one is m die. Go 1100rmb one of you need a die.


https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2126o.success.0.0.24d94831jfzeHt&id=681606303405


----------



## jollib

Are dell hynix a die or m die? How can you identify. Is it software only? Anyone have a link to the asus tool?


----------



## sulalin

sugi0lover said:


> 朋友跟賣家談過，他說950rmb可以輕鬆做7000，1100rmb一個可以做8000，貼在這裡。
> 這是1100元的鏈接，剩餘9個，僅供參考。
> 斷貨後，賣家說要漲到1300元。
> 
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2126o.success.0.0.24d94831jfzeHt&id=681606303405
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569217
> 
> [/引用]
> ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5-6400 Hynix Mdie 也能支持 DDR5-7600/7733/7800/8000MHZ 四通道 16G*2


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5-6400 RGB 16g*2 海力士 Mdie 208A










Spoiler


----------



## sulalin

Spoiler












ROG Z690 APEX & ASUS/SAMSUNG DDR5-4800 16g*2 SPD ignores it and accidentally writes it with GSKILL6400!









































SAMSUNG IC SINGLE CHANNEL AIR COOLING OC 8274MHZ


----------



## sulalin

Nizzen，發布：29015598，成員：343974 said:


> Elite 5600 上的 pmic 是否已解鎖，是否可以縮放？1.5v++v可行嗎？
> [/引用]
> TEAMGROUP DDR5-5600 is RICHTEK POWER PMIC 1.1V~1.435V MAX 1.435V+ to support advanced voltage options


----------



## rulik006

sugi0lover said:


> My friend talked to the seller, and he said that 950rmb can do 7000 easily and 1100rmb one can do 8000, which was posted here.
> Here is the link for 1100rmb ones and the remaining stock is 9 just for your reference.
> After the stock is gone, the seller said the price will go up to 1300rmb.
> 
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2126o.success.0.0.24d94831jfzeHt&id=681606303405


What a clown, price will be cheaper over time


----------



## sulalin

sugi0lover said:


> My friend talked to the seller, and he said that 950rmb can do 7000 easily and 1100rmb one can do 8000, which was posted here.
> Here is the link for 1100rmb ones and the remaining stock is 9 just for your reference.
> After the stock is gone, the seller said the price will go up to 1300rmb.
> 
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2126o.success.0.0.24d94831jfzeHt&id=681606303405
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569217


Just buy 1100R, many are on sale today, just bought 81N of 1100R
The seller has always said that Korean players have been buying a lot... It's better to buy quickly, the number is not much..


----------



## rulik006

sulalin said:


> Just buy 1100R, many are on sale today, just bought 81N of 1100R


Waste of money
I bought M-die for 160$, this cost double - 330$
Not worth at all, only if you addicted to new stuff and want to take advantage at hwbot, but it will not last long


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> My friend talked to the seller, and he said that 950rmb can do 7000 easily and 1100rmb one can do 8000, which was posted here.
> Here is the link for 1100rmb ones and the remaining stock is 9 just for your reference.
> After the stock is gone, the seller said the price will go up to 1300rmb.
> 
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2126o.success.0.0.24d94831jfzeHt&id=681606303405
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569217


get them now, the new patch is said to be voltage locked.


----------



## asdkj1740

Patriot Viper Venom RGB DDR5-6200MHz Review - It's Fast But Should You Buy One? - ThePCEnthusiast


In this review, let us find out how Patriot's latest memory, the Viper Venom RGB DDR5-6200MHz 32GB Kit, performs and if it is worth the price.




thepcenthusiast.com




another 208a m die
patriot viper venom rgb 6200, with pmic thermal pad


----------



## 673714

Interesting, some Asus users are reporting that windows update is flashing their bios to version 1720


----------



## newls1

I need yalls help please.... My ram is now for whatever reason testing unstable and I mem checked it last week and all was fine, or so I thought. Just fired up my game and CTD nearly immediately, so I went to mem test the ram and FAILED within 10 seconds where last week I went over an hour and no errors. This is pissing me off cause I kepe thinking its my GPU OC causing this CTD, but its NOT, it is 100% ram OC issue. Please can you take a look at my Voltages and settings in the provided pic and see if you can steer me in a direction as to what setting/settings to alter or voltages to change please.. I would greatly appreciate it!

***EDIT____* I really cant understand why I would encounter instability as my settings are pretty much spot on, or so id think. So I just went into bios and enabled "LUCKY MODE" under Advanced Dram Settings in my Unify X, and now she is testing stable but I see it now changed my RTL's a little higher to 66/67... Dont know if that will make a big difference but I shall see..... If yall see anything im missing, please let me know!!!!


----------



## rulik006

newls1 said:


> I need yalls help please.... My ram is now for whatever reason testing unstable and I mem checked it last week and all was fine, or so I thought. Just fired up my game and CTD nearly immediately, so I went to mem test the ram and FAILED within 10 seconds where last week I went over an hour and no errors. This is pissing me off cause I kepe thinking its my GPU OC causing this CTD, but its NOT, it is 100% ram OC issue. Please can you take a look at my Voltages and settings in the provided pic and see if you can steer me in a direction as to what setting/settings to alter or voltages to change please.. I would greatly appreciate it!
> 
> ***EDIT____* I really cant understand why I would encounter instability as my settings are pretty much spot on, or so id think. So I just went into bios and enabled "LUCKY MODE" under Advanced Dram Settings in my Unify X, and now she is testing stable but I see it now changed my RTL's a little higher to 66/67... Dont know if that will make a big difference but I shall see..... If yall see anything im missing, please let me know!!!!


Try lower tREFI
also, WRRD would put 60/48


----------



## newls1

rulik006 said:


> Try lower tREFI
> also, WRRD would put 60/48


I will try these if this lucky mode setting proves to NOT be the fix.. thank you!!!


----------



## Ken A

newls1 said:


> I will try these if this lucky mode setting proves to NOT be the fix.. thank you!!!


Could be temperature? My previous setting looked stabled but then on hot days was unstable because memory was running warmer
If you increase voltage a litle bit, does it run with tCL=28? I found more stable than at 30 or 32 ...


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ROG Z690 APEX & ASUS/SAMSUNG DDR5-4800 16g*2 SPD ignores it and accidentally writes it with GSKILL6400!
> 
> View attachment 2569256
> 
> 
> SAMSUNG IC SINGLE CHANNEL AIR COOLING OC 8274MHZ


a really good example of how pmic should be cooled.
there are kits using a thin sheet to make contact with the chokes only.


btw, strix a 6800mhz, from chiphell









asus four dimms mobos are strong.


----------



## newls1

Ken A said:


> Could be temperature? My previous setting looked stabled but then on hot days was unstable because memory was running warmer
> If you increase voltage a litle bit, does it run with tCL=28? I found more stable than at 30 or 32 ...


100% NOT TEMP RELATED. Are you saying CL28 might be more stable then CL32??!! Hmmm, worth a shot I guess... Thank you


----------



## stahlhart

6600 supported on Strix E now?!



















Edit: apparently not, according to G.Skill, unless 1720 BIOS makes it possible somehow.


----------



## LazyGamer

asdkj1740 said:


> a really good example of how pmic should be cooled.
> there are kits using a thin sheet to make contact with the chokes only.
> 
> 
> btw, strix a 6800mhz, from chiphell
> View attachment 2569426
> 
> 
> asus four dimms mobos are strong.


Huh, I have the DDR4 version of this board (the Z690-A), and apparently the DDR5 version was just released!

Not quite sure what is different between the -A, -E, and -F boards other than a few minor power phase or port configurations (and color).


----------



## asdkj1740

LazyGamer said:


> Huh, I have the DDR4 version of this board (the Z690-A), and apparently the DDR5 version was just released!
> 
> Not quite sure what is different between the -A, -E, and -F boards other than a few minor power phase or port configurations (and color).


yes that's new, tuf ddr5 also.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

This is my best result with Corsair CMT32GX5M2X5600C36 (Samsung IC):

6400MHz @ 31-39-39-52 1T.
VDDQ 1.46v / VDD 1.435v / SA 0.95v

I believe that for a memory of 5600MHz and being a Samsung chip, i got a good result.








Some observations:

- Tried playing around with tWRPRE and tWRDPEN to lower the tWR, but this model CMT32GX5M2X5600C36 doesn't seem to like it. Minimum tWR is 15, less causes instability;

- tREFI, a value greater than 37000 causes instability;

- tRDWR and tWRWR i needed a longer time to find the best value for stability, less than that causes instability;


----------



## rulik006

_AntLionBR_ said:


> - Tried playing around with tWRPRE and tWRDPEN to lower the tWR, but this model CMT32GX5M2X5600C36 doesn't seem to like it. Minimum tWR is 15, less causes instability;
> 
> - tREFI, a value greater than 37000 causes instability;
> 
> - tRDWR and tWRWR i needed a longer time to find the best value for stability, less than that causes instability;


Yea, mine previous g.skill 5600c36 was not bootable with WRRD_DG less than 50, didnt like high tREFI and low tRAS.
Hynix do better subtimings overall
Seems like Samsung IC's is inconsistent and need thorough binning process, while hynix m is pretty much consistent
Also, i tried a Micron and this was a nightmare, hard to stabilize even at 5400, this garbage should not be released to consumer market, if micron had a conscience.


----------



## db000

I've been MIA for a while now (much needed summer vacation). Still on A.62U2 on my Unify-X. What is the recommended/best BIOS now?


----------



## newls1

db000 said:


> I've been MIA for a while now (much needed summer vacation). Still on A.62U2 on my Unify-X. What is the recommended/best BIOS now?


Stay where you're at


----------



## newls1

on average, what is a good tWR setting that is safe but yet not under performing? Im currently at 12 and trying to find what is causing my instability.


----------



## LazyGamer

_AntLionBR_ said:


> This is my best result with Corsair CMT32GX5M2X5600C36 (Samsung IC):
> 
> 6400MHz @ 31-39-39-52 1T.
> VDDQ 1.46v / VDD 1.435v / SA 0.95v
> 
> I believe that for a memory of 5600MHz and being a Samsung chip, i got a good result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some observations:
> 
> - Tried playing around with tWRPRE and tWRDPEN to lower the tWR, but this model CMT32GX5M2X5600C36 doesn't seem to like it. Minimum tWR is 15, less causes instability;
> 
> - tREFI, a value greater than 37000 causes instability;
> 
> - tRDWR and tWRWR i needed a longer time to find the best value for stability, less than that causes instability;


I have the G.Skill equivalent of this kit; had it up to 6200 on my four-channel MEG ACE. Need to set up the Kingpin to see what it can do!


----------



## coulternoj

LilOliVert said:


> I don’t know if there’s anyone else here with a 12900k, Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Extreme, and G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK, but if you’ve been able to get 6400MHz stable I’d like to know what settings you used. If not, this is the closest I’ve come yet, hope it helps. I just copied the settings BZ used in this video for 6200MHz and dropped the CL as low as I could. 30 failed, so I tried 32 and it passed over an hour AIDA64 extreme stress test.


Used the same guide as a starting point for my hero with hynix sticks


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend and I bought some so called A die Ram sticks and they are on the way. I will post what those sticks can do next week.


----------



## 2500k_2




----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2569490
> 
> View attachment 2569491


Wooooot


----------



## sulalin

db000 said:


> I've been MIA for a while now (much needed summer vacation). Still on A.62U2 on my Unify-X. What is the recommended/best BIOS now?


UNIFY-X no matter what BIOS is the same, the same is not high! MDIE can't 7400/7600/7733/7800/8000 Quad channel


----------



## newls1

Been using Aida64 mem stress to test my ram OC's as of late as memtestpro will pass when aida64 mem tester will fail instantly, so i stopped using memtest. Does a program exist that is somewhat faster, to test my ram clocks with for stability? Ive never used anything but memtestpro so i have no experience with anything else. Is OCCT okay?


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> Been using Aida64 mem stress to test my ram OC's as of late as memtestpro will pass when aida64 mem tester will fail instantly, so i stopped using memtest. Does a program exist that is somewhat faster, to test my ram clocks with for stability? Ive never used anything but memtestpro so i have no experience with anything else. Is OCCT okay?


I like Karhu RAM Test - Karhu Software and also y cruncher 2.5b which is built into Benchmate. BenchMate

New benchmate is pretty sweet has so many benches in one plus cpuz and hwinfo. Not affiliated with them but I think it is a convient all in one tool. Plus I am a nerd and like the f6 after y cruncher to see a run "break down" of temps and clocks etc.

Edit my screenshot is old Benchmate new one has more options.

Also like 1 usmus tm5 profile to find errors for a free mem test app.


----------



## newls1

Thank you sir, so if I can pass a run of y cruncher would that be considered stable? I’m just let down with memtest pro… I can test to 100% coverage (25ish minutes) with no errors… fire up a game and instant CTD…. Try aida64 mem tester and I fail in 5secs… rediculous!


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> Thank you sir, so if I can pass a run of y cruncher would that be considered stable? I’m just let down with memtest pro… I can test to 100% coverage (25ish minutes) with no errors… fire up a game and instant CTD…. Try aida64 mem tester and I fail in 5secs… rediculous!


No y cruncher is just a quick way to test the IMC and memory OC. I then would run Karhu to 10,000% or tm5 1usmus for 20 cycles to consider it "stable". Some might run OCCT large or Prime 95 large fft but for me passing Y cruncher and Karhu I dont have any issues.

Just getting it to pass Karhu 10K is is tough. Same setting can pass and then later change bios and they need to be adjusted or clear cmos and start over. DDR5 can be a pain at times.


----------



## stahlhart

bscool said:


> No y cruncher is just a quick way to test the IMC and memory OC. I then would run Karhu to 10,000% or tm5 1usmus for 20 cycles to consider it "stable". Some might run OCCT large or Prime 95 large fft but for me passing Y cruncher and Karhu I dont have any issues.
> 
> Just getting it to pass Karhu 10K is is tough. Same setting can pass and then later change bios and they need to be adjusted or clear cmos and start over. DDR5 can be a pain at times.


I'm going to have to run 10,000% again after yesterday's misadventure with 1720 BIOS. Everything _seems_ okay after the rollback to 1304, but you've convinced me to be double sure. So far y-cruncher and R23 have passed with good scores.










Edit: all good.


----------



## yzonker

My limited experience with DDR4/5 overclocking is that there is no shortcut and DDR5 is quite a bit more difficult to stabilize. 

One thing that helped me shorten the initial testing was to note which tests in TM5 tended to fail and put them up front in the config file so they would run first. Obviously if heat is an issue then that doesn't work, but I found it useful for testing each individual timing. Seems like 1, 4, 8, and 12 in anta extreme were the most common.


----------



## DanGleeballs

newls1 said:


> I need yalls help please.... My ram is now for whatever reason testing unstable and I mem checked it last week and all was fine, or so I thought. Just fired up my game and CTD nearly immediately, so I went to mem test the ram and FAILED within 10 seconds where last week I went over an hour and no errors. This is pissing me off cause I kepe thinking its my GPU OC causing this CTD, but its NOT, it is 100% ram OC issue. Please can you take a look at my Voltages and settings in the provided pic and see if you can steer me in a direction as to what setting/settings to alter or voltages to change please.. I would greatly appreciate it!
> 
> ***EDIT____* I really cant understand why I would encounter instability as my settings are pretty much spot on, or so id think. So I just went into bios and enabled "LUCKY MODE" under Advanced Dram Settings in my Unify X, and now she is testing stable but I see it now changed my RTL's a little higher to 66/67... Dont know if that will make a big difference but I shall see..... If yall see anything im missing, please let me know!!!!
> 
> View attachment 2569408


I would try tRRD_L 7 and or tRDRDSG 13 or 14 and lower tREFI, 65280 is enough for 24/7


----------



## newls1

DanGleeballs said:


> I would try tRRD_L 7 and or tRDRDSG 13 or 14 and lower tREFI, 65280 is enough for 24/7


just got home and will do this now! Thank you very much


----------



## newls1

Just ran Y-Cruncher and this is what I got for a score.... Doesnt match up to what others post up usually so what am I doing wrong? On another note, it didnt crash, so there is that! YAY


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> Just ran Y-Cruncher and this is what I got for a score.... Doesnt match up to what others post up usually so what am I doing wrong? On another note, it didnt crash, so there is that! YAY
> 
> View attachment 2569520


Your screenshots are usually hard to read, not sure what the deal is. But for y cruncher run 2.5b and then hit f6 at the end for more of a readout.

Edit clicking on your screen shot the second time it looks good. Weird.


----------



## newls1

I see people posting up scores that are like 60second and such.... so what am I doing wrong?

**EDIT, I re-read what you put bscool.... here is a 2.5run. Is this an OK score?


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> I see people posting up scores that are like 60second and such.... so what am I doing wrong?


The test has different settings, Pi-1b, Pi-2.5b etc.

Where it says Category on the little pop up box you can select the different sizes.


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> The test has different settings, Pi-1b, Pi-2.5b etc.
> 
> Where it says Category on the little pop up box you can select the different sizes.


I was editing my post while you replied!
Im guessing my score is okay!


----------



## newls1

I think I have finally achieved stability. Ive changed 
tWRWR_SG from 12 to 14
tRDRD_SG from 12 to 14
tRRD_L from 6 to 7
Enabled "Lucky Mode"

Ive run Y-Cruncher back to back to back to back, and just gamed for 30mins and no more CTD FINALLY. So im not sure which of those settings fixed my mem OC, but either 1 or all of them made the difference. Thanks everyone. Im itching to try 6933 mem divider but In the end it wont make a bit of difference on my games and not worth the voltage increase.... 6822 is where im staying


----------



## DanGleeballs

You may find you're good without Lucky mode now which will help with those RTLs. Maybe even with lower VDDQ.
I run similar speed and timings to you with 1.47vdd 1.46vddq.
I have tcwl at 30 not 28 and all kits are different I know


----------



## newls1

DanGleeballs said:


> You may find you're good without Lucky mode now which will help with those RTLs. Maybe even with lower VDDQ.
> I run similar speed and timings to you with 1.47vdd 1.46vddq.
> I have tcwl at 30 not 28 and all kits are different I know


just wishi knew what lucky mode actually did other then adjust RTL's


----------



## DanGleeballs

newls1 said:


> just wishi knew what lucky mode actually did other then adjust RTL's


Igor'sLAB review described it as an "alternative training strategy" Probably just a little more relaxed I would guess.


----------



## newls1

DanGleeballs said:


> Igor'sLAB review described it as an "alternative training strategy" Probably just a little more relaxed I would guess.


i read that review of the board several times and somehow i missed that... thank you


----------



## Mr.Vegas

Hey, can someone recommend me a good RAM t hat can be tad overclocked?
My options are for 64GB kits [x2 32]

Gskill 5600 36-36-36-89 1.25V Samsung [F5-5600J3636D32GX2-TZ5RK]
Kingston 5600 40-40-40 1.25V Hynix [KF556C40BBK2-64]
Kingston 5200 40-40-40 1.25V Hynix [*KF552C40BBK2-64*]

I heard that Hynix can overclock to 6000, no matter if its 5200 or 5600 version?
Or maybe Samsung is a better option


----------



## bscool

Mr.Vegas said:


> Hey, can someone recommend me a good RAM t hat can be tad overclocked?
> My options are for 64GB kits [x2 32]
> 
> Gskill 5600 cl 36 Samsung [F5-5600J3636D32GX2-TZ5RK]
> Kingston 5600 cl 40 Hynix [KF556C40BBK2-64]
> Kingston 5200 cl 40 Hynix [*KF552C40BBK2-64*]
> 
> I heard that Hynix can overclock to 6000, no matter if its 5200 or 5600 version?
> Or maybe Samsung is a better option


Just going by another user report the 5600 2x32 Kingston is Hynix and he wa doing 6400c28 with tight subs on Unify X. Karhu and y cruncher stable.









[OFFICIAL] EVGA Dark K|NGP|N z690 Owners Thread


Ah, I gotcha. No, I’m still 1/4” away from the back. On my 1000D those grommets aren’t really in the way. Thanks for the pic. I edited my prior post with more questions.




www.overclock.net





Link has some screens of his timings and Aida64 bench.


----------



## newls1

thanks @bscool im now installing y-cruncher on every PC in the house and find this to be a fun game! Freaking huge difference from a 10900K @ 5.15GHz with 2x16 DDR4 @ 4000 and Alder Lake.. night and day. My 10900K system gets 98sec!


----------



## Mr.Vegas

bscool said:


> Just going by another user report the 5600 2x32 Kingston is Hynix and he wa doing 6400c28 with tight subs on Unify X. Karhu and y cruncher stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] EVGA Dark K|NGP|N z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Ah, I gotcha. No, I’m still 1/4” away from the back. On my 1000D those grommets aren’t really in the way. Thanks for the pic. I edited my prior post with more questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link has some screens of his timings and Aida64 bench.


Oh thanks
Im on Unify-X too

Whats the chnace that 5200 is Hynix? [I was going by mobos QVL list] could they swap it for Micron for 5200 version?


----------



## bscool

Mr.Vegas said:


> Oh thanks
> Im on Unify-X too
> 
> Whats the chnace that 5200 is Hynix? [I was going by mobos QVL list] could they swap it for Micron for 5200 version?


I dont know. It is probably Hynix but how much lower bin is it from 5600 I dont know. I would spend the extra $$ for the 5600 but that is just me. I dont want to wonder what if...........  

That is how I ended up with 6000c40 Kingston, gskill 6400c32 and Corsair 6600c32. Had to see if there was a big difference and nope. The Kinston actually run the coolest when OC all and using the same timings and voltages.


----------



## Mr.Vegas

bscool said:


> I dont know. It is probably Hynix but how much lower bin is it from 5600 I dont know. I would spend the extra $$ for the 5600 but that is just me. I dont want to wonder what if...........
> 
> That is how I ended up with 6000c40 Kingston, gskill 6400c32 and Corsair 6600c32. Had to see if there was a big difference and nope. The Kinston actually run the coolest when OC all and using the same timings and voltages.


Whats the opinion about Samsung? can a 5600 kit do 6000-6200?
I think ill go with GSKIL 5600 cl36 samsung for the looks [my 6000/36 is the same with rgb I like it, the Kingston 5600/40 is like 60$ cheaper for me, so not a big difference]
I seen benchmarks and looks like DDR5 speeds has no effect at games, 4800-6600, FPS difference maybe 1 FPS and in 4K its 0 [unless soemthing chnaged and i dont know about it], so i can save money by not buying the 6000 64gb kit [its super expensive]
Im running GSKILL 6000 CL36 32Gig but i need 64gb kit, 32 is not enough for me.


----------



## bscool

Mr.Vegas said:


> Whats the opinion about Samsung? can a 5600 kit do 6000-6200?
> I think ill go with GSKIL 5600 cl36 samsung for the looks [my 6000/36 is the same with rgb I like it, the Kingston 5600/40 is like 60$ cheaper for me, so not a big difference]
> I seen benchmarks and looks like DDR5 speeds has no effect at games, 4800-6600, FPS difference maybe 1 FPS and in 4K its 0 [unless soemthing chnaged and i dont know about it], so i can save money by not buying the 6000 64gb kit [its super expensive]
> Im running GSKILL 6000 CL36 32Gig but i need 64gb kit, 32 is not enough for me.


Most I have seen had a harder time OCing the Samsung and you cant run some timings as tight as Hynix.


----------



## DBCooper1

bscool said:


> Most I have seen had a harder time OCing the Samsung and you cant run some timings as tight as Hynix.


I couldnt get past 6000Mhz on my prime z690-a with my samsung kit, whatever I did. I believe I was able to get 6400Mhz with it on my Z690 dark, but didnt really test it that long on the dark as I had a new hynix kit. The hynix kit i am able to get relatively tight timings on the z690 dark at 6800Mhz at 1.45V easily, but it appears I have to put in a lot more voltage and mess with it a lot more to get 7000Mhz and beyond to possibly pass tm5.


----------



## Mr.Vegas

DBCooper1 said:


> I couldnt get past 6000Mhz on my prime z690-a with my samsung kit, whatever I did. I believe I was able to get 6400Mhz with it on my Z690 dark, but didnt really test it that long on the dark as I had a new hynix kit. The hynix kit i am able to get relatively tight timings on the z690 dark at 6800Mhz at 1.45V easily, but it appears I have to put in a lot more voltage and mess with it a lot more to get 7000Mhz and beyond to possibly pass tm5.


6000Mhz is enough, i have Unify-X so i might get higher, i just want to get the same speed i have now [6000] so it wont feel like downgrade going from 32gb to 64gb


7000mhz that sounds insane, but do you get any measurable improvement in games, soft?
I stumbled upon this article today, Samsung plans to introduce 5200-5600MT/s DDR5 soon [right now all the DDR5 sold, coming as 4800MT/s from the factory]
So it means we will get 7000MT/s and beyond kits.
In 2025 they plan to introduce 1.1V 7200MT/s DDR5, we will get kits that cross 10000 MT/s
Also the ram sold now is 16Gb dies, they already have 24Gb dies and will introduce 32Gb dies soon, [affordable two stick 128Gb kits incoming......]

The future of DDR5 is bright.


----------



## Nizzen

Mr.Vegas said:


> Whats the opinion about Samsung? can a 5600 kit do 6000-6200?
> I think ill go with GSKIL 5600 cl36 samsung for the looks [my 6000/36 is the same with rgb I like it, the Kingston 5600/40 is like 60$ cheaper for me, so not a big difference]
> I seen benchmarks and looks like DDR5 speeds has no effect at games, 4800-6600, FPS difference maybe 1 FPS and in 4K its 0 [unless soemthing chnaged and i dont know about it], so i can save money by not buying the 6000 64gb kit [its super expensive]
> Im running GSKILL 6000 CL36 32Gig but i need 64gb kit, 32 is not enough for me.


Garbage is the right word (after using Hynix) 😅


----------



## just20sent

Just got a new build with a 4 dim ROG STRIX Z690-G, my Samsung (V-colors) kit 6000cl80 is not passing HCI Mem Test on it with XMP, anyone has a kit that they recommend with RGB on top to suit my build - preference Hynix. Thank you!


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5-6400
Gear4 Single Channel 8000 OC 8720 MHz watercooling


----------



## skullbringer

sulalin said:


> ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5-6400 Hynix MDIE 208A OC 8560MHZ WATER COOLING
> View attachment 2569542
> 
> View attachment 2569543
> 
> View attachment 2569544
> 
> View attachment 2569545


sure that's not a-die? nvm, checked your earlier posts. 

so mdie 208A clocks as well as adie 216A? interesting...


----------



## newls1

sulalin said:


> ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5-6400
> Gear4 Single Channel 8000 OC 8720 MHz watercooling
> View attachment 2569552
> 
> View attachment 2569553
> 
> View attachment 2569554


why is this a big deal? Its in Gear4 Mode


----------



## stahlhart

Nizzen said:


> Garbage is the right word (after using Hynix) 😅


Since nothing you post here any longer is constructive, or even remotely humorous (in spite of your desperate use of emoticons to try and make it look that way), onto the ignore list you go.


----------



## bscool

I noticed the latest benchmate 10.11.1 has some issues so here is the 10.10 https://dl.benchmate.org/bm-10.10.exe

They are suppose to be releasing a fix soon. Just posting this here because I commented about liking it the other day and now the newest version has a bug 🙃

Check their site though for latest incase the release fix for 10.11.1 BenchMate


----------



## newls1

whats the bug?


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> whats the bug?


Probably more than I know. I see the newest one the Cpuz, Hwinfo, gpuz that you can click on and open are missing in the bottom left. Also cliwrapper is red in the newest so I think that makes it invalid if you want to submit it.


10.11.1 Not mine https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/662350852404805660/1010185373906911354/unknown.png

Here is a screenshot if 10.10


----------



## newls1

above my payscale! Im just glad I can pass y-cruncher thanks to you fine folks


----------



## asdkj1740

z690 unify x
the spd speed is not 5600mhz btw.


----------



## newls1

asdkj1740 said:


> z690 unify x
> the spd speed is not 5600mhz btw.
> View attachment 2569646


Think this is HynixA Die???Its the closet I can find... TeamGroup T-FORCE DELTA RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-5600 PC5-44800 CL32 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit FF3D532G5600HC3 - Black - Micro Center


----------



## bscool

Fixed version of benchmate 10.11.2 BenchMate


----------



## Nizzen

Hmmm... Testing some team dimms...
5600 1.1v Elite 100$ per dimm LOL
Looks like voltage is unlocked, but "undervolting" like my dell's.
1.5v set in bios














Edit:
Yes they are unlocked alright 
6800mhz








7000mhz







7200mhz


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Hmmm... Testing some team dimms...
> 5600 1.1v Elite 100$ per dimm LOL
> Looks like voltage is unlocked, but "undervolting" like my dell's.
> 1.5v set in bios
> View attachment 2569674
> 
> View attachment 2569673
> 
> Edit:
> Yes they are unlocked alright
> 6800mhz
> View attachment 2569675
> 
> 
> 7000mhz
> View attachment 2569676
> 
> 7200mhz
> View attachment 2569677


What does VDDQ-TX voltage do and is 1.50+ considered out of the realm of 24/7 safe? I keep mine @ 1.370 I think, and was wondering what that voltage actually was?


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> What does VDDQ-TX voltage do and is 1.50+ considered out of the realm of 24/7 safe? I keep mine @ 1.370 I think, and was wondering what that voltage actually was?


I use auto LOL


----------



## 7empe

newls1 said:


> What does VDDQ-TX voltage do and is 1.50+ considered out of the realm of 24/7 safe? I keep mine @ 1.370 I think, and was wondering what that voltage actually was?


It is quite simple to understand how does it work. I will simplify a bit (and sorry for this long answer, I just had too...)

The RAM chip has input and output buffers. Input buffers receive data from the cpu-memory bus and pushes them to the memory registers - it is where the data is being stored. Similarlly, the output buffers take the data from the registers and send them out (to the cpu over the cpu-memory bus). Now, there are two voltage rails steered by PMIC on the memory stick, VDD and VDDQ. On the CPU side of things there is VDDQ as well. The [email protected] feeds the input buffer and core logic - therefore it determines how far we can push with CAS latency, frequency and some timings. As data is stored (shortly) at input buffer, the right level of this voltage is required to handle data properly - buffer cannot push ("write") data to the registers if there is a "read" operation in progress. The [email protected] feeds the output buffer in the similar way.

Now, on the CPU side there is simillar bi-directional buffer fed by CPU VDDQ (TX) that does similar job.

The VDDQ on CPU and DDR is used in several training algorithms, like computing proper ODT voltage, which on 12th gen CPUs is something in bettwen of <0.4*VDD2 ; VDDQ>. Using some common sense, there should be a relation between both VDDQs and even a VDD! Voltage applied to the buffer determines also how "strong" data is being handled and how "strong" the signal over the cpu-memory is. And there is a relation indeed! Real life example:

6400 CL 32 with default voltages of VDD 1.40V and VDDQ 1.40V. If everything on auto, CPU VDDQ is going to be 1.40V as well. Now, what will happen if I preserve the speed but set CL 28... I need to raise the VDD.
6400 CL 28 now with VDD 1.56V, but VDDQ 1.40V still. What happened (on ASUS board omg...) with CPU VDDQ on auto? It went straight up to 1.56V and board does not train well (or at all).
VDDQ of the RAM output buffer is 1.40V, so lets use 1.40V also on the CPU side, because there should be some kind of match between the sender<->receiver, right?
CPU VDDQ 1.40V and board trains perfectly stable now.
But wait, you said 1.56V on the RAM input buffers, right? It is still the mismatch of the voltages here. And that's correct, but the amount of the signal voltage that input buffers receive from the CPU is 1.40V and this is used in fact on the RAM's receiver, the higher voltage feeds the RAM's timings and core logic, so everything matches!
Of course, there is a tolerance margin and everything may work fine with ridiculously different VDDQs on both ends, but it's the motherboard's training job of how to train signals properly with given input criteria.

I know that there is a commonly known and propagated rule that CPU VDDQ shall be set to the highest of a <VDDQ;VDD> pair. But in my opinion it is wrong rule (I may be completely wrong though - sorry) and CPU VDDQ shall be close to DDR VDDQ.

Now, going back to your question regarding safe voltage level. There is no single word about it in the specifications, but as CPU VDDQ is taken from FIVR, then you won't be able to cross 1.60V efficiently and if you ask me, I would stay at 1.50V-1.55V range, but do you really need it so high?


----------



## Snop1K

update


----------



## Ketku-

I have one question regarding DDR5 Block and heatsinks..

Did you put thermal pads in between or without? I'm mainly wondering if this makes any difference to the temperatures? Because i was put 1mm thermal pads between.
For example, the Bitspower DDR5 instruction does not seem to have thermal pads between Blok and Heatsink.. As you can see picture.


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> I have one question regarding DDR5 Block and heatsinks..
> 
> Did you put thermal pads in between or without? I'm mainly wondering if this makes any difference to the temperatures? Because i was put 1mm thermal pads between.
> For example, the Bitspower DDR5 instruction does not seem to have thermal pads between Blok and Heatsink.. As you can see picture.
> 
> View attachment 2569751
> View attachment 2569752


Thermal paste


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Thermal paste


Okey, do you know how much can be temps different pads vs paste?


----------



## db000

Ketku- said:


> Okey, do you know how much can be temps different pads vs paste?


I used 1mm thermal pads on both sides. Different block and heatsinks tho. I have copper heatsinks and block from Bartx. I'm sure paste is slightly better.
Thermal Grizzly 1mm (minus pad 8).


----------



## Ketku-

db000 said:


> I used 1mm thermal pads on both sides. Different block and heatsinks tho. I have copper heatsinks and block from Bartx. I'm sure paste is slightly better.
> Thermal Grizzly 1mm (minus pad 8).


Yea, i have too Thermal Grizzly pads in heatsink. 
Only thinking that between Heatsink - WaterBlock.


----------



## Scandaal

Who can help, now racing on Z690 Apex / 12900ks / GSkill 6400 CL32 (Hynix), I want to make 7000 Mhz, boot is, but in the wine blue. I tried VDD2 / SA Voltage but it doesn't work. Currently DRAM VDD / VDDQ - 1.5V, CPU VDDQ - 1.4V, CPU MC - 1.3V, CPU SA - 1.1V, also turned off RxDfe (saw on OCN wrote that switching off helps above 6600Mhz)


----------



## Snop1K

Scandaal said:


> Who can help, now racing on Z690 Apex / 12900ks / GSkill 6400 CL32 (Hynix), I want to make 7000 Mhz, boot is, but in the wine blue. I tried VDD2 / SA Voltage but it doesn't work. Currently DRAM VDD / VDDQ - 1.5V, CPU VDDQ - 1.4V, CPU MC - 1.3V, CPU SA - 1.1V, also turned off RxDfe (saw on OCN wrote that switching off helps above 6600Mhz)


voltage is low. scroll through the forum, see what values other people have set (timings, etc., set auto and initially overestimated values in the primary timings and the voltage is near critical. if it starts, lower the voltage until the system can turn on, then think whether it is needed or not. if the voltage is generally normal, select the timings)

example:








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


You have to set tWRPRE and tWRPREN to set tWR. tWTR timing registers dont exist on alder lake so you dont need to worry about them. Here is a good OC for the latest bios on the dark




www.overclock.net


----------



## Scandaal

I saw there were tests on 1.35 VDD / VDDQ on 7000 mHZ


----------



## db000

Ketku- said:


> Yea, i have too Thermal Grizzly pads in heatsink.
> Only thinking that between Heatsink - WaterBlock.


Ah, yes. I use the same there (1mm) or 0.5mm iirc.


----------



## Ketku-

db000 said:


> Ah, yes. I use the same there (1mm) or 0.5mm iirc.


So you have Paste or Pads between Heatsink - Block? Thats why i ask, because Bitspower install manual wasent have nothing between Block - Heatsink.


----------



## Snop1K

Scandaal said:


> I saw there were tests on 1.35 VDD / VDDQ on 7000 mHZ


bro, I saw I did not see the conversation is not about anything. I have a 6400 at 1.5v. raise the voltage and test, there are a lot of overclocking screenshots


----------



## db000

Ketku- said:


> So you have Paste or Pads between Heatsink - Block? Thats why i ask, because Bitspower install manual wasent have nothing between Block - Heatsink.


Pads. 1mm or 0.5mm. iirc I used 0.5mm last time around. Same brand and model.


----------



## bscool

Scandaal said:


> I saw there were tests on 1.35 VDD / VDDQ on 7000 mHZ


Not stable, not on Apex. If so post the links or screenshots.

You will need in the 1.6 to 1.55 range as an estimate for 7000 to be stable on Apex.


----------



## Scandaal

Set only high primary timings and tRRDS / tRRDL / tFAW - 8,8,32 and tREFI - 130560, the voltage is now SA - 1.1V, CPU MC - 1.45V, DRAM VDD / VDDQ - 1.55V


----------



## Scandaal

At the start of TM5 or Karhu immediately BSOD


----------



## bscool

Scandaal said:


> At the start of TM5 or Karhu immediately BSOD


You probably need more or less on some voltage. It takes a lot of time and testing, trial and error. Might need vdd/vddq equal and vddqtx lower or vvd higher than vddq/vddqtx. It really depends.

IMC can probably be lowered though to auto or 1.3 to 1.35 range.


----------



## Nizzen

Scandaal said:


> At the start of TM5 or Karhu immediately BSOD


Remember to set fastboot = disabled and set full "training mode"


----------



## bscool

@Scandaal Is 2022 Apex? If not test slot 1. No sense in wasting time if slot 1 cant run y cruncher or pass Karhu at a certain clock.

Set something like 6400 and then 6600, 6933 7000 etc and see when slot 1 fails and then test slot 2. If slot one can only do say 6600 and slot 2 can do 7000 you know where the issue is.


----------



## 7empe

Ketku- said:


> I have one question regarding DDR5 Block and heatsinks..
> 
> Did you put thermal pads in between or without? I'm mainly wondering if this makes any difference to the temperatures? Because i was put 1mm thermal pads between.
> For example, the Bitspower DDR5 instruction does not seem to have thermal pads between Blok and Heatsink.. As you can see picture.
> 
> View attachment 2569751
> View attachment 2569752


I use grizzly thermal paste.


----------



## Scandaal

Nizzen said:


> Remember to set fastboot = disabled and set full "training mode"


MRC Fast Boot - Disabled ?


----------



## Scandaal

what to install in Maximus Tweak on the Z690 Apex ?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> So you have Paste or Pads between Heatsink - Block? Thats why i ask, because Bitspower install manual wasent have nothing between Block - Heatsink.


I used to use thermal paste bet waterblock and ram cover, but I use thermal pad now and I see almost no difference. Thermal pad is easier to handle.


----------



## Snop1K

hi all

I have equipment:
CORSAIR (CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6200
GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS MASTER









ran RAM on these settings, experienced users tell me, please, is this a decent result for 6400? I have little experience with ddr5, I'm not sure that I chose the timings correctly, I look at some users latensy is much lower than mine (I exclude motherboards with 2 RAM slots)

*if someone has more ideal settings for 6400 - please send, I'll try
the motherboard starts at 6600 voltage at 1.5v +, did not leave it for permanent work*

photo from bios brought under the spoiler


Spoiler
























P.S. after jumping to other timings, the RAM for some reason did not start at 1.4v at the moment it works stably at 1.485-1.5v in all points (VVD A0, VDDQ A0, DRAM Vdd / vddQ)


----------



## bscool

Snop1K said:


> hi all
> 
> I have equipment:
> CORSAIR (CMT32GX5M2X6200C36) Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6200
> GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS MASTER
> View attachment 2569787
> 
> 
> ran RAM on these settings, experienced users tell me, please, is this a decent result for 6400? I have little experience with ddr5, I'm not sure that I chose the timings correctly, I look at some users latensy is much lower than mine (I exclude motherboards with 2 RAM slots)
> 
> *if someone has more ideal settings for 6400 - please send, I'll try
> the motherboard starts at 6600 voltage at 1.5v +, did not leave it for permanent work*
> 
> photo from bios brought under the spoiler
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569785
> 
> View attachment 2569784
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. after jumping to other timings, the RAM for some reason did not start at 1.4v at the moment it works stably at 1.485-1.5v in all points (VVD A0, VDDQ A0, DRAM Vdd / vddQ)


Some of your timings could be a little tighter but I think it some is your OS, cache clock is lower on 12700k vs 12900k and also i notice your RTLs look loose.

Find out how to enable Round Trip Latency in your bios that will tighten RTLs.


----------



## Snop1K

bscool said:


> Some of your timings could be a little tighter but I think it some is your OS, cache clock is lower on 12700k vs 12900k and also i notice your RTLs look loose.
> 
> Find out how to enable Round Trip Latency in your bios that will tighten RTLs.


RTL = auto. Do you have an example of what values should be set and how can it be at frequencies of 6400?


----------



## bscool

Snop1K said:


> RTL = auto. Do you have an example of what values should be set and how can it be at frequencies of 6400?


Enable RTL

Yours might be a little different since Gigabyte 4 dim vs Apex 2 dim but this will give you an idea. 

Some 6400c30 and 6400c32 each have a little different timings. This is from when I first got ddr5 and was testing and learning.


----------



## Snop1K

bscool said:


> Some 6400c30 and 6400c32 each have a little different timings. This is from when I first got ddr5 and was testing and learning.


I can’t get a latency of 50ns, but I think it’s possible to improve the results. I will report the result. Thanks.


----------



## bscool

Snop1K said:


> I can’t get a latency of 50ns, but I think it’s possible to improve the results. I will report the result. Thanks.


I think you can get in the 54 to 56ns range though if you get things dialed in a little more. 12700k will usually have a little higher latency because cache doesnt clock as high.


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5 水冷超頻 8840MHz






















DDR5超頻8840MHz


----------



## asdkj1740

there are new prices for F5-6400J3239, $299 seems to be a good deal for ppl who generally have bad luck.
a discount from 299 would be even more appealing.
for the same price in china you maybe able to get a die 5600mhz 16g*2 kit.


----------



## shiftedx.eth

DDR5 is the first time I've attempted to OC my RAM outside of just enabling XMP but right now I'm tuning for daily use. I wasn't able to get over 6000 to be stable on my CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 kit no matter voltage unfortunately... so I'm working on tightening up timings. Any easy performance wins you guys see with my current settings? Anything over 35000 for tREFi seemed to cause instability as well.


----------



## bscool

shiftedx.eth said:


> DDR5 is the first time I've attempted to OC my RAM outside of just enabling XMP but right now I'm tuning for daily use. I wasn't able to get over 6000 to be stable on my CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 kit no matter voltage unfortunately... so I'm working on tightening up timings. Any easy performance wins you guys see with my current settings? Anything over 35000 for tREFi seemed to cause instability as well.
> 
> View attachment 2569822


One thing I see is you are on bios 605 I would try a newer bios like 1304. Timings this thread is full of ones you can look at to compare. I posted some above a few posts at 6400 but most of the subtimings will work for you or give you a good start.

For tm5 I would use 1 usmus v3 for testing 20 cycles and y cruncher 2.5b using benchmate.

I prefer Karhu for memtests but you have to pay for it RAM Test - Karhu Software


----------



## sugi0lover

sulalin said:


> ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza DDR5 水冷超頻 8840MHz
> View attachment 2569806
> View attachment 2569807
> View attachment 2569808
> 
> DDR5超頻8840MHz


Good result, Anyway afaik, this foum has more intestest in daily stable OC setup.
Can you share your stable OC setup with those ram sticks?


----------



## yzonker

Doesn't seem like I've seen these this cheap. Someone probably knows, but I'm not sure if they are Hynix though. At least always Hynix?









G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## LazyGamer

yzonker said:


> Doesn't seem like I've seen these this cheap. Someone probably knows, but I'm not sure if they are Hynix though. At least always Hynix?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Had these - had to return them after a Gigabyte board bricked them (thanks Gigabyte!). Wish I could remember - but what I can say, is that my 5600C36 G.Skill kit with Samsung ICs can easily run those timings up to 6200.

So flip a coin? Main issue with the Samsung sticks is that they're not going to go much higher than that, and that they require more voltage to get there than Hynix ICs. However, that's also not much of an issue on four-DIMM boards either as that's where they start running out of steam.


----------



## rulik006

yzonker said:


> Doesn't seem like I've seen these this cheap. Someone probably knows, but I'm not sure if they are Hynix though. At least always Hynix?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Samsung. G.skill is super scummy, they not give you anything good for cheap.
while with other AIB's like Corsair/Patriot/Team/sometimes Kingston you can always get a better deal, example: Fury Beast 5600c40


----------



## tubs2x4

I’ve got a question if anyone can give advise too…

Msi pro-a ddr5 board z690
12400f
5600 ddr5 samsung

I tried a intel mlc quick bandwidth test and it’s only in the 76-77gb/s with xmp on.
but same ram sticks came out of my z690 asus prime board with 12700kf and bandwidth on xmp wasaround 85-87 gb/s.

I sent a help Ticket to Msi see what their response is. Msi board has latestbios for it. Will the 12400 cause mem to have lower bandwidth?


----------



## rulik006

tubs2x4 said:


> Msi pro-a ddr5 board z690
> 12400f
> 5600 ddr5 samsung
> I tried a intel mlc quick bandwidth test and it’s only in the 76-77gb/s with xmp on.
> but same ram sticks came out of my z690 asus prime board with 12700kf and bandwidth on xmp wasaround 85-87 gb/s.
> I sent a help Ticket to Msi see what their response is. Msi board has latestbios for it. Will the 12400 cause mem to have lower bandwidth?


Ofc you will not get same bandwidth and latency as with 12700k, it will be much worse


----------



## tubs2x4

rulik006 said:


> Ofc you will not get same bandwidth and latency as with 12700k, it will be much worse


Ok that’s why I was asking if that would be reason cause I do not know if purely the cpu cause mem to be lower bandwidth output


----------



## LazyGamer

tubs2x4 said:


> Ok that’s why I was asking if that would be reason cause I do not know if purely the cpu cause mem to be lower bandwidth output


Higher bandwidth and lower latency seem to require higher core speeds and higher ring speeds especially - remember that every memory benchmark is also a CPU benchmark as well.


----------



## pipes

yzonker said:


> Doesn't seem like I've seen these this cheap. Someone probably knows, but I'm not sure if they are Hynix though. At least always Hynix?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Low price, in Italy this is the price https://www.sferaufficio.com/artico...uzeFMceeurZP_Bt0bGzZVQCoF7F4w3p8aAnjJEALw_wcB

335€

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## tubs2x4

LazyGamer said:


> Higher bandwidth and lower latency seem to require higher core speeds and higher ring speeds especially - remember that every memory benchmark is also a CPU benchmark as well.


Ok. Well I’ll try blck over clocking next.


----------



## asdkj1740

rulik006 said:


> Samsung. G.skill is super scummy, they not give you anything good for cheap.
> while with other AIB's like Corsair/Patriot/Team/sometimes Kingston you can always get a better deal


stop trashing gskill please, have been almost a year since the launch of z690.


gskill, for those who dareeee3636e.


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> Good result, Anyway afaik, this foum has more intestest in daily stable OC setup.
> Can you share your stable OC setup with those ram sticks?


from time to time he shares some stress tests screenshots of ~7000mhz elsewhere. he is obsessed with frequency though.


----------



## SuperCloud

Can anyone suggest a good 6000+ M/T Sk Hynx memory kit that can be OC while temps remain cool?
I've read posts that G.Skills F5-6400J3239G16GX2 Sk Hynx or similar run hot? Is this true?


----------



## satinghostrider

SuperCloud said:


> Can anyone suggest a good 6000+ M/T Sk Hynx memory kit that can be OC while temps remain cool?
> I've read posts that G.Skills F5-6400J3239G16GX2 Sk Hynx or similar run hot? Is this true?


I am very pleased with the Kingston Fury Beast which is a 6000C40 kit. Managed to get mine rock stable at 6800C32 at 1.5V. With a ram cooler, I max out at 48 degrees on TM5. Games are on average 10 degrees less which is under 40 degrees consistently. It also has a PMIC thermalpad unlike the ****ty G.skills that don't bother putting even one on. And it's cheaper. No RGB though but I can't care less about RGB.


----------



## Gen.

Hi all. Haven't visited you for a long time. I got 3 results myself. I stopped at 6400C28.
I'm waiting for the Z690 Dark to appear in stock and we will make 7000-7200 CR1 on CL30/32.


----------



## Gen.

I use radiators from aliexpress and corsair dominator airflow from ddr2
1.0 mm thermal pad on the side without chips, 0.5 mm where memory chips and PMIC.
Thermal pads Iceberg Thermal DRIFTIce 13 W/mK


----------



## mimimomo

sugi0lover said:


> Good result, Anyway afaik, this foum has more intestest in daily stable OC setup.
> Can you share your stable OC setup with those ram sticks?





asdkj1740 said:


> from time to time he shares some stress tests screenshots of ~7000mhz elsewhere. he is obsessed with frequency though.





asdkj1740 said:


> from time to time he shares some stress tests screenshots of ~7000mhz elsewhere. he is obsessed with frequency though.
> [/QU Hey brother ~ It's a pity that he has been blocked by OCN, including a $20 senior member


----------



## mimimomo

sugi0lover said:


> Good result, Anyway afaik, this foum has more intestest in daily stable OC setup.
> Can you share your stable OC setup with those ram sticks?


Hey brother ~ It's a pity that he has been blocked by OCN, including a $20 senior member


----------



## mimimomo

sugi0lover said:


> Good result, Anyway afaik, this foum has more intestest in daily stable OC setup.
> Can you share your stable OC setup with those ram sticks?


Let's observe a moment of silence for him! This is his last figure. It was caught by other websites.
























Hynix ADIE water cooling


----------



## Arni90

tubs2x4 said:


> Ok. Well I’ll try blck over clocking next.


Not much to it on a motherboard without an external base clock generator. Max 102.7 MHz or so.


----------



## LazyGamer

SuperCloud said:


> Can anyone suggest a good 6000+ M/T Sk Hynx memory kit that can be OC while temps remain cool?
> I've read posts that G.Skills F5-6400J3239G16GX2 Sk Hynx or similar run hot? Is this true?


Picked up this kit, can boot into OS at 6600, have been able to stabilize 6200 at tight timings:



https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6200C36



6200 seems to be the current ceiling on my four-slot MEG Z690 ACE; even the G.Skills F5-6400J3239G16GX2 Sk Hynx kit I ran before loaning them to a reviewer was unstable at 6400. Could be a bum board, or I could just not know what I'm doing.

Either way, though - the G.Skill kit ran over 10c hotter than the Corsair Dominator kit, both with the Alseye 2x60mm RAM cooler running.


----------



## SuperCloud

satinghostrider said:


> I am very pleased with the Kingston Fury Beast which is a 6000C40 kit. Managed to get mine rock stable at 6800C32 at 1.5V. With a ram cooler, I max out at 48 degrees on TM5. Games are on average 10 degrees less which is under 40 degrees consistently. It also has a PMIC thermalpad unlike the ****ty G.skills that don't bother putting even one on. And it's cheaper. No RGB though but I can't care less about RGB.


Oh wow nice. I saw the stock of that Kingston fury memory kit, but now its out of stock (. 
Any other brand memory kit you can suggest that is Sk Hynx and can overclock but remain cool unlike G.Skills one?

What about this CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB 6400 CL38 CMK32GX5M2X6400C38 ? I checked Unify X QVL which says its Sk Hynx M, but it stated there is a specific version, ver5.43.13 . On newegg it doesn't specify if its that version. How is the cooling on these memory kits?




LazyGamer said:


> Picked up this kit, can boot into OS at 6600, have been able to stabilize 6200 at tight timings:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6200C36
> 
> 
> 
> 6200 seems to be the current ceiling on my four-slot MEG Z690 ACE; even the G.Skills F5-6400J3239G16GX2 Sk Hynx kit I ran before loaning them to a reviewer was unstable at 6400. Could be a bum board, or I could just not know what I'm doing.
> 
> Either way, though - the G.Skill kit ran over 10c hotter than the Corsair Dominator kit, both with the Alseye 2x60mm RAM cooler running.


Thank you, appreciate it. G.skill memory kit is over priced then if its thermal is so bad. So what temperatures you get with the CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 vs the G.Skills while gaming and general PC work?

What about CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB 6400 CL38 CMK32GX5M2X6400C38? How would the cooling be on this kit?

The memory kit you suggested is same price as G.Skills 6400 CL32, but wouldn't the 6200 cL36 is worse quality than 6400 CL32? :S Is the CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 better buy for its cooling capacity?

I will be using MSI z690 Unify X


----------



## SuperCloud

Also, is the DDR5 latency (ns) at 6400 CL32 or 6800 CL34 is better than DDR4 4000 CL15 on gear 1? 

Currently, I have DDR4 at 4000 CL15 using samsung B Die with tight timings. bandwidth is 60GB/s and 42.6 ns. The samsung B die ddr4 memory is more expensive than DDR5 6400 CL32 g.skills lol, so I am debating if I switch to DDR5 while I still can.


----------



## bscool

SuperCloud said:


> Oh wow nice. I saw the stock of that Kingston fury memory kit, but now its out of stock (.
> Any other brand memory kit you can suggest that is Sk Hynx and can overclock but remain cool unlike G.Skills one?
> 
> What about this CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB 6400 CL38 CMK32GX5M2X6400C38 ? I checked Unify X QVL which says its Sk Hynx M, but it stated there is a specific version, ver5.43.13 . On newegg it doesn't specify if its that version. How is the cooling on these memory kits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, appreciate it. G.skill memory kit is over priced then if its thermal is so bad. So what temperatures you get with the CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 vs the G.Skills while gaming and general PC work?
> 
> What about CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB 6400 CL38 CMK32GX5M2X6400C38? How would the cooling be on this kit?
> 
> The memory kit you suggested is same price as G.Skills 6400 CL32, but wouldn't the 6200 cL36 is worse quality than 6400 CL32? :S Is the CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 better buy for its cooling capacity?
> 
> I will be using MSI z690 Unify X


Cheapest price are directly from Kingston DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology









Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology


Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 6400MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency. Shop at Kingston.




shop.kingston.com





Unless you cant order from them in Canada.


----------



## SuperCloud

bscool said:


> Cheapest price are directly from Kingston DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 6400MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency. Shop at Kingston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.kingston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you cant order from them in Canada.





bscool said:


> Cheapest price are directly from Kingston DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 6400MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency. Shop at Kingston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.kingston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you cant order from them in Canada.


I tried the website, it only ships to USA, not Canada (. I am waiting for Amazon to bring the stock back. Is this the memory kit you're using?


----------



## Givemeareason

What can I expect from i7-12700, Strix B660-F and Kingston Fury Beast Black 6000 CL40 ? I got the CPU and still don't know what board and RAM to get.


----------



## Nizzen

mimimomo said:


> Hey brother ~ It's a pity that he has been blocked by OCN, including a $20 senior member


It's litterally impossible to be blocked by OCN, so he must have done some serious "#¤"#%


----------



## SuperCloud

Givemeareason said:


> What can I expect from i7-12700, Strix B660-F and Kingston Fury Beast Black 6000 CL40 ? I got the CPU and still don't know what board and RAM to get.


I am looking for what ram to get as well (. Keep me in the loop.


----------



## Givemeareason

SuperCloud said:


> I am looking for what ram to get as well (. Keep me in the loop.


Hynix DDR5, if you got a locked CPU don't bother with high end DDR4.


----------



## Talon2016

bscool said:


> Cheapest price are directly from Kingston DDR5 Desktop Gaming PC Memory - Kingston FURY Beast - Kingston Shop US – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology
> 
> 
> Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 offers speeds of 6000MT/s – 6400MT/s and kit capacities up to 32GB. DDR5 features on-die ECC (ODECC) for improved stability at extreme speeds and dual 32-bit subchannels for increased efficiency. Shop at Kingston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.kingston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you cant order from them in Canada.


Thanks for that. Just got the 2x16gb 6400 CL32 Non-RGB stuff for $237 and free shipping after a 10% first purchase coupon. You can use WELCOME10/sign up for their email to get the 10% off. Much better deal than buying a cheapo sticks and slapping a heatsink on them. These are plug and play no fuss SK Hynix. I need them for my second rig to replace the crap Sammy kit. I figure I better buy more now since DDR5 about to get more expensive/harder to get once AM5 hits the market. SK Hynix gonna get scooped up by them too.


----------



## SuperCloud

Givemeareason said:


> Hynix DDR5, if you got a locked CPU don't bother with high end DDR4.


I have 12600K cpu. I am using samsung B die at 4000 CL15 and tight timings. But it is now more expensive than DDR5. I can return it and grab ddr5, if there is advantage in gaming etc.

I paid $430 CAD or $340 USD

That's why I am asking. I hope someone can guide me on this.


----------



## Givemeareason

SuperCloud said:


> I have 12600K cpu. I am using samsung B die at 4000 CL15 and tight timings. But it is now more expensive than DDR5. I can return it and grab ddr5, if there is advantage in gaming etc.
> 
> I paid $430 CAD or $340 USD
> 
> That's why I am asking. I hope someone can guide me on this.


What board ?


----------



## SuperCloud

Givemeareason said:


> What board ?


I will be buying MSI z690 Unify X for DDR5
currently have msi z690 tomahawk ddr4.

I wanted to buy F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5S G.skill 6400 CL32 Sk Hynx, its cheaper than my samsung b die ddr4. But, it runs too hot according to what people experienced here, so looking for another sk hynx ddr5 memory kit that runs cooler :\. Kingston 6000 cL40 is out of stock where I live.


----------



## Word_Up71

Getting the Z690 Dark Kingpin from USA ... install it with Kingston Fury Beast KF560C40BBK2-32.
Bumped up to 7000/7200 and after *only1 hour of DDR5-OC-testing* the DIMM-Slot 1 was f*cked up.
After that only with DIMM-Slot 2 the board was booting.

*So beware to oc u memory on that board*.    

LOL. That is the greatest s*it i ever had.
Getting back with the same Kingston-Memory to my old z690 *unify-X* ... everything fine.
Send the Dark s*cking Board back to amazon.

The mighty Kingpin ... EVGA ... Hahahaha


----------



## tubs2x4

Arni90 said:


> Not much to it on a motherboard without an external base clock generator. Max 102.7 MHz or so.


Oh I guess not. Should have researched that bettter. Fiqured z690 chipsets allowed that. Oh well. 12400 stock is pretty good.


----------



## sulalin

我又奇蹟般地複活了……ROG Z690 APEX DDR5-ADIE WATER COOLING OC 8920MHz


Spoiler: 8920mhz


----------



## Givemeareason

SuperCloud said:


> I will be buying MSI z690 Unify X for DDR5
> currently have msi z690 tomahawk ddr4.
> 
> I wanted to buy F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5S G.skill 6400 CL32 Sk Hynx, its cheaper than my samsung b die ddr4. But, it runs too hot according to what people experienced here, so looking for another sk hynx ddr5 memory kit that runs cooler :\. Kingston 6000 cL40 is out of stock where I live.


Unify X should be great. Also, I believe that you shouldn't spend too much on the higher end DDR5, because some cheaper kits will perform the same as the more expensive ones. It also depends on the exact board you get, some older Apex boards for example aren't as good as the newer ones. The Kingston 6000 CL40 should be the best in terms of price, but if you cannot get it, I don't know what else to recommended, maybe someone else will help. Sometimes 5600 CL40 Kingston are Hynix, so might take a gamble here and see, worst case scenario you will return it.


----------



## asdkj1740

is that you, the korean friend of safedisk, running 8000mhz with <45ns by a die...


----------



## sugi0lover

got new A-die and here is simple booting and AIDA64 bench.
I will see how far this ram can be stable.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

sugi0lover said:


> got new A-die and here is simple booting and AIDA64 bench.
> I will see how far this ram can be stable.
> 
> View attachment 2570190
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570191



I'm having issues with my replacement Apex. It's randomly restarting. If I clear the CMOS etc. it fixes it for a week sometimes less but it's getting more frequent of an issue as time goes by. I have an opportunity to buy a new dark kingpin motherboard from evga for $500. Should I pull the trigger?


----------



## sugi0lover

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I'm having issues with my replacement Apex. It's randomly restarting. If I clear the CMOS etc. it fixes it for a week sometimes less but it's getting more frequent of an issue as time goes by. I have an opportunity to buy a new dark kingpin motherboard from evga for $500. Should I pull the trigger?


I have not used Kingpin but it seems really good mb.
FYI, the above a die stick can not be used over 1.435v on Kingpin while apex and unify can use voltage over 1.435v.


----------



## centvalny

sugi0lover said:


> got new A-die and here is simple booting and AIDA64 bench.
> I will see how far this ram can be stable.
> View attachment 2570192
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570191


Awesome clock. Is it renasas pmic?


----------



## sugi0lover

centvalny said:


> Awesome clock. Is it renasas pmic?


Yes. You can see it from asrock ram timings I posted.


----------



## SuperCloud

Anyone recommend DDR5 kits that are Sk Hynx and can run cooler?
The Kingston Fury 6000 CL40 isn't available, any other brand such as Corsair ?
Please.


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> got new A-die and here is simple booting and AIDA64 bench.
> I will see how far this ram can be stable.
> View attachment 2570192
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570191


That is a great starting point, but man are those voltages insane. I thought I was pushing it at 1.6v but 1.68v is pretty mad. But then again you are watercooling the blocks so it's alright I guess. Looking forward to stabilised timings and voltages.


----------



## sugi0lover

matique said:


> That is a great starting point, but man are those voltages insane. I thought I was pushing it at 1.6v but 1.68v is pretty mad. But then again you are watercooling the blocks so it's alright I guess. Looking forward to stabilised timings and voltages.


Around 1.60v, you can expect stable 7800 32 44 44 or 34 46 46


----------



## matique

Still a substantial jump from 7000c30 at 1.6v. Can't wait to play with it once retail is out.


----------



## QXE

sugi0lover said:


> Yes. You can see it from asrock ram timings I posted.


I bought an A die kit with a monolithic power systems Pmic. No idea how its gonna like the dark yet.


----------



## LazyGamer

SuperCloud said:


> any other brand such as Corsair


Corsair's Dominator Platinum seems to be one of the coolest-running designs for DDR5 out so far.


----------



## Nizzen

LazyGamer said:


> Corsair's Dominator Platinum seems to be one of the coolest-running designs for DDR5 out so far.


No heatsink is even cooler  (with direct airflow)


----------



## LazyGamer

Nizzen said:


> No heatsink is even cooler  (with direct airflow)


Sure, just have to hunt a kit down and hope that the pricing is reasonable. I tried looking for the Dell green sticks some folks have used and list prices were pretty out there.

Though personally whatever kit I wind up running for the long haul is going under water, just so I don't have to mess with it


----------



## Nizzen

LazyGamer said:


> Sure, just have to hunt a kit down and hope that the pricing is reasonable. I tried looking for the Dell green sticks some folks have used and list prices were pretty out there.
> 
> Though personally whatever kit I wind up running for the long haul is going under water, just so I don't have to mess with it











TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601 at Amazon.com


Buy TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Almost too cheap


----------



## affxct

Guys, should I order one of the EVGA boards on sale or will Z790s destroy them and drop the price even further? Contemplating selling some CS skins and buying the Classified (maybe the Dark). The Classified should do 6800Mbps without issue but the dark can do 7000 1T. What do you guys think? Also, I'm not getting Raptor Lake (if that helps).


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> Guys, should I order one of the EVGA boards on sale or will Z790s destroy them and drop the price even further? Contemplating selling some CS skins and buying the Classified (maybe the Dark). The Classified should do 6800Mbps without issue but the dark can do 7000 1T. What do you guys think? Also, I'm not getting Raptor Lake (if that helps).



Same boat. Want to buy dark.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> Guys, should I order one of the EVGA boards on sale or will Z790s destroy them and drop the price even further? Contemplating selling some CS skins and buying the Classified (maybe the Dark). The Classified should do 6800Mbps without issue but the dark can do 7000 1T. What do you guys think? Also, I'm not getting Raptor Lake (if that helps).


I doubt the Dark will come down much from the $500 they go on sale for from time to time. z790 Dark wont be out for 6 months or more I bet so no reason they would lower the price until then.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Same boat. Want to buy dark.


It's kinda tough for me because shipping and customs to my country will be like $130 for the Dark and around $100 for the Classified. I'd be happy to pay it but only if I'm dead set on one of them. CS skins are good to hold onto because they've been increasing linearly year on year, whereas the Dark might tank to $350 after Z790. I was DEFINITELY planning to buy one, but I'm not sure if now is the low point.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> I doubt the Dark will come down much from the $500 they go on sale for from time to time. z790 Dark wont be out for 6 months or more I bet so no reason they would lower the price until then.


Mmm I guess I'm doing it then. I'd prefer the Classified if it can do 1T but there doesn't seem to be any OC data on it.


----------



## KedarWolf

ADATA XPG LANCER RGB 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL40 Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB), Black - DDR5 6000 - Memory Express Inc. Is this a decent kit? Cheap in Canada. 

*XPG LANCER RGB 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL40 Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB), Black*


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601 at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost too cheap


IS THAT A-DIE?


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> IS THAT A-DIE?


No don't think so, but I can't verify it without a program that shows ic name. You know what program to find it?

It says "team" on the IC's. The dimms boots in 7000 and 7200mhz at very low voltage. Like 1.37v, but max stable with Karhu Ramtest is 6800mhz. Tested 4 dimms. Very cheap Hynix dimms 105$ per 16GB wit renesas pmic.
Maybe the pmic is the bottleneck?

richtek pmic is what we want to see it looks like....


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX DDR5 ADIE WATERCOOLING OC 8936MHz 單通道





























ROG Z690 APEX DDR5 空冷氣冷卻OC 8936MHz_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


ROG Z690 APEX DDR5 ADIE 空氣冷卻 OC 8936MHz, 视频播放量 259、弹幕量 0、点赞数 4、投硬币枚数 4、收藏人数 1、转发人数 1, 视频作者 OCHIANG, 作者简介 OCHIANG-CHENG-TAO，相关视频：ROG Z690 APEX & Neo Forza凌航科技DDR5-6400 空冷8000直開 8/16續 MDIE，挑戰DDR5內存頻率超頻世界紀錄全記錄 12900K[QS]/MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X / 十銓T-FORCE RGB 6400，板厂没有说的秘密 微星toppc超频作弊 爆料ddr5 10000的秘密...




www.bilibili.com


----------



## tubs2x4

So at 8000 speeds with ddr5 mem controller should be running at 4000? Isn’t that kind of the limit for mem controllers or cpus that will be able to run that fast if imc speeds?


----------



## affxct

tubs2x4 said:


> So at 8000 speeds with ddr5 mem controller should be running at 4000? Isn’t that kind of the limit for mem controllers or cpus that will be able to run that fast if imc speeds?


8000Mbps means 4000MHz and 2000MHz IMC. Like running D4 4000. 8000Mbps would be at the limit of most i9s.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> 8000Mbps


Really wish we could standardize on MT/s (Mega Transfers per second). Mbps (Mega bits per second) is not at all appropriate for RAM transfer rates.



tubs2x4 said:


> So at 8000 speeds with ddr5 mem controller should be running at 4000? Isn’t that kind of the limit for mem controllers or cpus that will be able to run that fast if imc speeds?


Assuming that this is in gear two, so 1/2 memory clockspeed, which is again one half of the transfer speed, the memory controller would be running at 2000MHz.

If higher speeds are achievable, then gear four (1/4 memory clockspeed) might need to be used.


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> Really wish we could standardize on MT/s (Mega Transfers per second). Mbps (Mega bits per second) is not at all appropriate for RAM transfer rates.
> 
> 
> Assuming that this is in gear two, so 1/2 memory clockspeed, which is again one half of the transfer speed, the memory controller would be running at 2000MHz.
> 
> If higher speeds are achievable, then gear four (1/4 memory clockspeed) might need to be used.


I'm curious as to why we can't use Mbps.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> I'm curious as to why we can't use Mbps.


Well, think about it. RAM hasn't run as slow as 7,200Mbps for a very long time.

I don't expect marketing departments to 'get it' either - but we don't work in the marketing department for a global conglomerate


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> Well, think about it. RAM hasn't run as slow as 7,200Mbps for a very long time.
> 
> I don't expect marketing departments to 'get it' either - but we don't work in the marketing department for a global conglomerate


You're going to have to elaborate. BZ's video explanation last year made sense and Samsung are using the naming convention because are DDR5 runs at +-3000-3500MHz. Perhaps there's something you know that none of us do. I'm not sure Samsung is just a marketing team. They do kinda manufacture silicon.


----------



## newls1

🍿


----------



## Givemeareason

F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5KF
K560C40BBK2-32 

Which one ?


----------



## M1RROR

Givemeareason said:


> F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5KF
> K560C40BBK2-32
> 
> Which one ?


K560C40BBK2 ofc


----------



## LazyGamer

LazyGamer said:


> Well, think about it. RAM hasn't run as slow as 7,200Mbps for a very long time.





affxct said:


> You're going to have to elaborate


7200Mbps is 0.9GB/s. DDR5 running at 6400MT/s in quad-channel 32-bit can transfer >100GB/s.

Compare 100GB/s with 0.9GB/s. Does that make sense?


----------



## ThinbinJim

LazyGamer said:


> 7200Mbps is 0.9GB/s. DDR5 running at 6400MT/s in quad-channel 32-bit can transfer >100GB/s.
> 
> Compare 100GB/s with 0.9GB/s. Does that make sense?


I believe the speed rating is per pin. Mbps/Gbps is used on GDDR VRAM which is memory tech derived from DDR, like how GDDR6X is 19Gbps - 24Gbps.

To convert that rating to theoretical speed, it's

7200Mbps / 8 = 0.9Gbps
0.9Gbps * 32bits (# of pins per subchannel) * 4 sub-channels = 115GB/s


----------



## LazyGamer

ThinbinJim said:


> I believe the speed rating is per pin. Mbps/Gbps is used on GDDR VRAM which is memory tech derived from DDR, like how GDDR6X is 19Gbps - 24Gbps.
> 
> To convert that rating to theoretical speed, it's
> 
> 7200Mbps / 8 = 0.9Gbps
> 0.9Gbps * 32bits (# of pins per subchannel) * 4 sub-channels = 115GB/s


This is correct; the problem with using data rate per-pin (really per 'data wire') is that it obfuscates what we're really talking about, which is clockspeed and transfers per second, by using a measure that applies to a serial connection and is mostly used in networking / internet connections (which are serial in consumer contexts).

The numbers work out of course - 7200Mbps is the correct line rate for DDR5 running at 7200MT/s / 3600MHz - it's just that the unit of measure is a few steps removed, and typically associated with network connections.



affxct said:


> I'm not sure Samsung is just a marketing team. They do kinda manufacture silicon.


Marketing teams routinely release rather stupid materials that twist the actual engineering of products. The engineers that make the products rarely have direct input, let alone review authority. I do not take marketing material as engineering gospel.


----------



## affxct

@LazyGamer 
@ThinbinJim 

All that I've taken from the above is that we should just use the actual clock speed of the memory. I assumed you guys were going to do a calculation that incorporated the actual effective transfer rate. It does makes sense, but it also complicates things because we have different channel conventions for different platforms and different burst sizes between different DDR generations. 

Idk, I like the Mbps convention per pin. It's like MHz but is overall more accurate. We've all run Aida and I too have observed my RAM transferring at a very different number to 6.6Gbps, but we have to compromise somewhere. MT/s just seems really vague. I'm happy to go with 3.3GHz/3300MHz. It honestly makes things so much simpler.


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> 7200Mbps is 0.9GB/s. DDR5 running at 6400MT/s in quad-channel 32-bit can transfer >100GB/s.
> 
> Compare 100GB/s with 0.9GB/s. Does that make sense?


That does of course make sense, but if we use this method we can't generalize and compare raw memory IC capabilities across platforms and memory generations (D4 in X99 and X299 will inherently land far higher than D4 in even a Comet Lake platform running like 4533).

I guess you're right, because DDR5 introduced the sub-channel thing and now the old way of notation disregards DDR5's inherent superiority over older memory technologies. In that regard Mbps was fine until DDR5 launched.

I do get what you're saying though. The method we use to derive GPU VRAM transfer rates; how does that compare to the method we use to derive the transfer rate between CPUs and DRAM?


----------



## asdkj1740

Givemeareason said:


> F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5KF
> K560C40BBK2-32
> 
> Which one ?


avoid 3636e and 4040e


----------



## affxct

@LazyGamer 
@ThinbinJim 

You guys definitely know what you're talking about, however, isn't the calculation you guys used to deive the eventual GB/s rate flawed because that rate is theoretical and practically-speaking, you never max out your max transfer rate.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> You guys definitely know what you're talking about, however, isn't the calculation you guys used to deive the eventual GB/s rate flawed because that rate is theoretical and practically-speaking, you never max out your max transfer rate.


Sort of - think of network connections. If you're trying to derive 'bytes per second' of say 1Gbit, you're going to divide by eight (bits to bytes), but you're also going to have to include protocol overhead as well. So for example, with TCP/IP, you typically get around 111MB/s out of a theoretical 125MB/s.

Thing is, the connection itself is still 1Gbit. Just like going up the layers of the OSI model for networking, for memory we'd do the same thing - MT/s is how fast data actually transfers per data line. All of the timings and memory controller configurations, including how many data lines you have (128 for dual-channel DDR4 and quad-channel DDR5), then factor in as 'overhead' that reduces the bandwidth realized by say the operating system.



affxct said:


> That does of course make sense, but if we use this method we can't generalize and compare raw memory IC capabilities across platforms and memory generations (D4 in X99 and X299 will inherently land far higher than D4 in even a Comet Lake platform running like 4533).


This is one of the main issues - DDR4 has been used in single-channel setups (see laptops, industrial designs) all the way up to eight-channel setups, at least, and then there's a very broad range of clockspeeds officially and unofficially supported.


----------



## MMarques

Givemeareason said:


> F5-6000U4040E16GX2-TZ5KF
> K560C40BBK2-32
> 
> Which one ?


Bought the Kingston fury renegade 6000 cl32 last week.
Is hynix.
Testing 6200 37 37 79.
No voltage increased.
So far so good. 



Enviado do meu CLT-L29 através do Tapatalk


----------



## IronAge

affxct said:


> Mmm I guess I'm doing it then. I'd prefer the Classified if it can do 1T but there doesn't seem to be any OC data on it.


Would not buy classified, VRM seems a bit troubled, coil whine reported, EMI with moving USB Mouse audible on nearby speakers, stuff like that.



KedarWolf said:


> ADATA XPG LANCER RGB 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL40 Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB), Black - DDR5 6000 - Memory Express Inc. Is this a decent kit? Cheap in Canada.
> 
> *XPG LANCER RGB 32GB DDR5 6000MHz CL40 Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB), Black*


These are supposed to have Samsung IC very likely, early Modules like the Kit i got have Hynix M-Die.


----------



## affxct

IronAge said:


> Would not buy classified, VRM seems a bit troubled, coil whine reported, EMI with moving USB Mouse audible on nearby speakers, stuff like that.
> 
> 
> 
> These are supposed to have Samsung IC very likely, early Modules like the Kit i got have Hynix M-Die.


Mmm I don't mind that sort of stuff tbh. I usually disable Spread Spectrum as well which should help a little with that.


----------



## sugi0lover

This is my first stable OC with A Die DDR5.
It passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles and did quick HCI Memtest.
Ram timings and voltages can be optimized more, and I will try stable 8000.
(For 7800 CL32, vdd can be lowered to 1.605v)
(I tested air cooling and this setup is also stable at Ram Temp 48C)
(love hci cover speed^^)

○ Ram : DDR5-5600 SK Hynix (A-Die)
○ Ram OC : 7800Mhz-32-44-44-30-480-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex
○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.630v / VDDQ 1.630v / VDDQ TX 1.400(auto) / MC 1.400v(auto) / SA 1.300v(auto) / VPP 1.875v 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)



















[Real-time HCI Memtest]





[Update : Some ram timngs]


----------



## newls1

sugi0lover said:


> This is my first stable OC with A Die DDR5.
> It passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles and did quick HCI Memtest.
> Ram timings and voltages can be optimized more, and I will try stable 8000.
> (For 7800 CL32, vdd can be lowered to 1.605v)
> (I did air cooling and this setup is also stable at Ram Temp 48C)
> 
> ○ Ram : DDR5-5600 SK Hynix (A-Die)
> ○ Ram OC : 7800Mhz-32-44-44-30-480-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex
> ○ Voltages (actual at load) : VDD 1.630v / VDDQ 1.630v / VDDQ TX 1.400(auto) / MC 1.400v(auto) / SA 1.300v(auto)
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> 
> View attachment 2570340
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570342
> 
> 
> [Real-time HCI Memtest]


would it be possible to link me to the sticks so I can buy em too, or is it NOT that simple?!


----------



## Alessandro Silva

@opt33 I´ve copied all your parameters but I can´t go lower than 60´s, any advice? The way that it is I have 6600 Mhz stable but I´m looking to have a better latency. Another thing, as I´m not familiar with MSI bios, I have set ring to 40 and everytime it shows 3500, am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any help.


----------



## newls1

Alessandro Silva said:


> @opt33 I´ve copied all your parameters but I can´t go lower than 60´s, any advice? The way that it is I have 6600 Mhz stable but I´m looking to have a better latency. Another thing, as I´m not familiar with MSI bios, I have set ring to 40 and everytime it shows 3500, am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570356


put ring at a fixed 43/44x multi and youll be in the 50s


----------



## opt33

Alessandro Silva said:


> @opt33 I´ve copied all your parameters but I can´t go lower than 60´s, any advice? The way that it is I have 6600 Mhz stable but I´m looking to have a better latency. Another thing, as I´m not familiar with MSI bios, I have set ring to 40 and everytime it shows 3500, am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any help.


Like newls1 said ring helps, should stay what you set unless bios has an issue. Also set RTL's to dynamic (in memory settings near end) yours are high that is likely most of your latency issue.


----------



## Talon2016

MMarques said:


> Bought the Kingston fury renegade 6000 cl32 last week.
> Is hynix.
> Testing 6200 37 37 79.
> No voltage increased.
> So far so good.
> 
> 
> 
> Enviado do meu CLT-L29 através do Tapatalk


Also bought the Kingston Fury Renegades -- Non-RGB Black Silver 6400 CL32 1.4v 2x16gb Kit for $237.

6400 MTs CL32 running great on an Asrock Z690 PG Velocita 4 dimm board with a ****ty IMC 12600K.

SK Hynix ICs obviously and has a Richtek Power PMIC5100.

Edit: Testing 6600 MTs CL32 on the board now. Any way to check the IC version, any programs that can read these?


----------



## sugi0lover

newls1 said:


> would it be possible to link me to the sticks so I can buy em too, or is it NOT that simple?!


You can check this link out. 








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


I don’t know what to say about that. I was told anything above 6000MHz is difficult for 4 slot boards. From my experience with this one, it seems like I just haven’t found the right voltage settings. The XMP calls for 1.4v, but that’s what 6200MHz requires to be stable. Where the 6200MHz XMP...




www.overclock.net





Since taobao doesn't export the stuff to the other countries, my friend and I had to use a service that buys and sends stuff to my country. There ares lots of servcie agents like that.


----------



## Alessandro Silva

newls1 said:


> put ring at a fixed 43/44x multi and youll be in the 50s


@newls1 thanks for the help. @opt33 I´ll do it. Thanks you both for the help.


----------



## Gen.

Hi all. Is Z690 Dark limited to 1.435V on 4800CL40 OEM or not? Do I need to buy new memory?


----------



## yzonker

Gen. said:


> Hi all. Is Z690 Dark limited to 1.435V on 4800CL40 OEM or not? Do I need to buy new memory?


Go to the CPU tab in the bios and enable extreme voltage mode.


----------



## Gen.

The board is on the way at the moment, just wanted to ask. In my asus board I have:
High DRAM Voltage Mode [Enabled]
DRAM VDD Voltage [1.57000]
DRAM VDDQ Voltage [1.52000]


----------



## sugi0lover

Gen. said:


> The board is on the way at the moment, just wanted to ask. In my asus board I have:
> High DRAM Voltage Mode [Enabled]
> DRAM VDD Voltage [1.57000]
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage [1.52000]


Afaik, those basic 4800 cl40 M-die sticks or this new basic A-die 5600 sticks which use RENESAS PMIC is locked at 1.435v on Kingpin even with those option enabled.
Please let us know if this is not correct.


----------



## Gen.

I expect delivery on August 30-31. I hope it will arrive in Russia through an intermediary at the end of September. I'll let you know right away. I don't want to change my memory because it should do CR1 because it's revision 2151 with 150A chips, not 138A. Now 6400CL28 is 1.57/1.52 with a drawdown to 1.5-1.515/1.45-1.465. 6400CL28=6933CL30 voltage and I want to reach 7200CL32 or 7000-7200CL32 CR1 if possible. Also, I don't want to change the memory to the same M-Die because of the release of the new Hynix A-Die.


----------



## Chris38

Hello,
Maybe someone can help me.

MB: Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Apex (Bios Version 1720)
CPU: i9-12900K
RAM: 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 6600 CL32-39-39-76

I cannot boot with XMP I and XMP II. Anything over 6200 will cause blue screens.

VDD and VDDQ are set to 1.40 in the XMP profile. Everything else is on auto.

I don't have much experience with OC and I'm afraid to change the voltage. Does anyone have tips on how to get to 6600?

Thank you


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> @LazyGamer
> @ThinbinJim
> 
> All that I've taken from the above is that we should just use the actual clock speed of the memory. I assumed you guys were going to do a calculation that incorporated the actual effective transfer rate. It does makes sense, but it also complicates things because we have different channel conventions for different platforms and different burst sizes between different DDR generations.
> 
> Idk, I like the Mbps convention per pin. It's like MHz but is overall more accurate. We've all run Aida and I too have observed my RAM transferring at a very different number to 6.6Gbps, but we have to compromise somewhere. MT/s just seems really vague. I'm happy to go with 3.3GHz/3300MHz. It honestly makes things so much simpler.


To add, AMD uses MT/s as well


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> To add, AMD uses MT/s as well


Hynix uses Mbps. I don't mean to be condescending but I'd much rather take Hynix/Samsung nomenclature than AMD.

If you check my sig, I've been using the value without a unit of measurement for some time now. I'm happy with DDR5-6600/3300MHz clock speed. What I won't do is call it 6600 MT/s. It just sounds stupid if I'm completely honest. 

I personally enjoy the Mbps nomenclature that Hynix and Samsung have adopted, and that a lot of enthusiasts have adopted because of BZ, but I can understand your frustration.


----------



## affxct

Might I add, what a silly video by AMD. Like are you kidding me? As if the only people on the face of the planet dumb enough to waste money on their expensive AF platform aren't the ones who have learnt D5 like the backs of their hands for the last year because they were slow to the trigger with Zen 4. It's not like they made a video all about DDR4 when Zen 1 launched.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> Might I add, what a silly video by AMD. Like are you kidding me? As if the only people on the face of the planet dumb enough to waste money on their expensive AF platform aren't the ones who have learnt D5 like the backs of their hands for the last year because they were slow to the trigger with Zen 4. It's not like they made a video all about DDR4 when Zen 1 launched.


Makes quite a bit of sense to me - you bought Zen on AM4 with DDR4 because it was reasonably competitive with Intel, while its predecessors were a product of AMDs Netburst-grade seppuku (the Dozers). Not because it used DDR4.

Now, we have Zen 3 competitive for quite a few top-end applications and at least fully competitive elsewhere - and Zen 4 is dropping with mostly higher clockspeeds and being locked in to DDR5. From a marketing perspective, DDR5 is new and needs explanation, simple as that. And while X670E is certainly expensive out of the gate - that's par for the course for a new, top-end chipset from either company - there are cheaper boards coming with cheaper chipsets and fewer features.



affxct said:


> If you check my sig, I've been using the value without a unit of measurement for some time now. I'm happy with DDR5-6600/3300MHz clock speed. What I won't do is call it 6600 MT/s. It just sounds stupid if I'm completely honest.


Well, if you used 'Mbpspp'*, it might make more sense - Mbps is typically understood in a _serial_ context, meaning that if the actual speed is more due to link teaming of some sort, then the number of teams (the 'total bit width') of the interface needs to also be specified. Otherwise, Mbps is total bandwidth. It's not really 'frustrating' as much as just briefly confusing.

*Mega-bits per second _per pin, _with a typical desktop system having 2x64bit or 4x32bit configurations and thus having 128 'pins' for data.

Whereas MT/s is pretty clear.



affxct said:


> I personally enjoy the Mbps nomenclature that Hynix and Samsung have adopted


This makes sense because they're talking about standardized DRAM ICs, not (usually) the various DIMMs that are manufactured with those ICs. As another example, GPUs typically list their memory bandwidth at Gbps, which makes sense as GPU memory isn't generally configurable once boards are shipped to retail, unlike the various configurations of DIMMs that are used for CPUs, from mobile up through servers.


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> Makes quite a bit of sense to me - you bought Zen on AM4 with DDR4 because it was reasonably competitive with Intel, while its predecessors were a product of AMDs Netburst-grade seppuku (the Dozers). Not because it used DDR4.
> 
> Now, we have Zen 3 competitive for quite a few top-end applications and at least fully competitive elsewhere - and Zen 4 is dropping with mostly higher clockspeeds and being locked in to DDR5. From a marketing perspective, DDR5 is new and needs explanation, simple as that. And while X670E is certainly expensive out of the gate - that's par for the course for a new, top-end chipset from either company - there are cheaper boards coming with cheaper chipsets and fewer features.
> 
> 
> Well, if you used 'Mbpspp'*, it might make more sense - Mbps is typically understood in a _serial_ context, meaning that if the actual speed is more due to link teaming of some sort, then the number of teams (the 'total bit width') of the interface needs to also be specified. Otherwise, Mbps is total bandwidth. It's not really 'frustrating' as much as just briefly confusing.
> 
> *Mega-bits per second _per pin, _with a typical desktop system having 2x64bit or 4x32bit configurations and thus having 128 'pins' for data.
> 
> Whereas MT/s is pretty clear.
> 
> 
> This makes sense because they're talking about standardized DRAM ICs, not (usually) the various DIMMs that are manufactured with those ICs. As another example, GPUs typically list their memory bandwidth at Gbps, which makes sense as GPU memory isn't generally configurable once boards are shipped to retail, unlike the various configurations of DIMMs that are used for CPUs, from mobile up through servers.


I'm happy with DDR5-_value_. The AMD thing I just cannot be arsed for. It's not like their customers are re***ds.

You might disagree with the following statement, but I don't feel as though MT/s provides any better of a clarification than Mbps. I get your Mbpspp argument, it's totally fine. The issue is that defaulting to MT/s doesn't inherently suggest that the value is not pp also. 

In a way, there is no difference between MT/s and Mbps because there is no industry standard for what a 'transfer' is and thus how are we supposed to deduce what a mega transfer or a giga transfer is. It's just such an arbitrary term. I would happily and I truly mean happily use Mbpspp if you prefer. On God I have no issue adding the pp and 'per pin' to all my responses and wording from here on out.

I usually use Mbps when I speak because BZ, the only enthusiast with actual reach who still OCs regularly, uses it. Generally I like to say DDR5-xxxx when speaking to friends and when I talk about D5 on my local tech forum (they wouldn't know what I mean by Mbps).


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> It's not like their customers are re***ds.


That's a little pointed, but I'm also speaking in terms of those coming in uninformed or underinformed. I also write articles, and while I generally have a pretty high level of technical understanding, being able to communicate clearly (i.e., deconflicting terms that are possibly overloaded) is just one of those things I do. I mean, I fully understand what is meant by 'Mbps' when speaking in terms of DDR5 - but it's a bit ambiguous for this specific domain of knowledge, and that can lead to confusion. That's why I won't use it - not because I don't understand it, but because I don't want to confuse others, and the 'MT/s' nomenclature is more specific.

Also, not trying to keep the somewhat OT discussion going - really just enjoying the back and forth as to how we wound up using different shorthand methods for the same thing!


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> That's a little pointed, but I'm also speaking in terms of those coming in uninformed or underinformed. I also write articles, and while I generally have a pretty high level of technical understanding, being able to communicate clearly (i.e., deconflicting terms that are possibly overloaded) is just one of those things I do. I mean, I fully understand what is meant by 'Mbps' when speaking in terms of DDR5 - but it's a bit ambiguous for this specific domain of knowledge, and that can lead to confusion. That's why I won't use it - not because I don't understand it, but because I don't want to confuse others, and the 'MT/s' nomenclature is more specific.
> 
> Also, not trying to keep the somewhat OT discussion going - really just enjoying the back and forth as to how we wound up using different shorthand methods for the same thing!


That was a bit crude, but I am kinda annoyed and AMD. It's not that I dislike them as a company or that I don't like their products. I've used Ryzen and RX 6000 extensively. I also don't particularly enjoy NVIDIA's antics. That video just perpetuates this cringe trend that AMD seriously need to work on.

Perhaps it's how they secure sales, or perhaps it's the direction their new investors wanted to push the company in, but it's represented in their software and their hardware locks as well. Point-in-case; I owned a 5900X and a 6900 XT last year. All of a sudden a driver comes along and I kid you not, it keeps trying to default my GPU and CPU to 'Auto-OC' while using PBO. I had a good per core negative offset but Adrenalin was dead set on auto-OCing my chip for me and each time you'd need to boot back to BIOS and re-load. It was super annoying. 

That doesn't even include the random resets of GPU OC settings due to random apparent instability detection. Anyone that daily's RX knows that using 3rd party overlay or tuning software is a death sentence in relation to daily stability and avoidance of all the issues most people complain about. As a result if you want to use their entire ecosystem they allow these buggy resets of your settings to leak through and it's super frustrating. 

So why did I mention the above? BZ made mention of how displeasurable it was to OC his 6900 XTX under LN2 and then elaborated on the different driver limitations. On the CPU side and RAM side I do find it kinda annoying that sometimes there are weird issues, but generally it OCs about the same as Intel stuff does. It just seems as though AMD are perpetuating this discouragement toward overclocking. They don't sponsor tournaments, they don't discuss their chips' OCing capabilities, they speak about these silly RAM 'sweet spots' and they make these dumb videos almost as though their customers have 85 IQ and have no knowledge of what they're about to purchase.

It's like: "oh hey, so our new Zen 4 platform actually uses this super fast memory tech called DDR5. 6000 MT/s is so so fast and it's actually optimal for our CPUs wink wink." It's like, give me a break. The people on OCN probably know more about DDR5 stability than half of their engineering team by this point due to all the countless hours worth of testing done on ADL. I mean we as a community literally took JEDEC and maxed it out to 7200Mbpspp reboot-stable and daily'able. Some of us (not to toot my own horn) can do 6600 on crappy 6-layer boards with 4 DIMMs when this would've been regarded as lunacy in the first few weeks of retail D5.

We've literally written the book on impedance issues, signal integrity, timing scaling, performance scaling, temperature tolerance, and everything else you can imagine. I say we because most of the awesome members on this forum have been willing to share knowledge. Not that AMD's multi-millionaire consumer base know who OCN or BZ's discord are, let alone other individuals from Igor's Lab or i2Hard. Thing is, this is out there for free, and it's splattered all over YT (I've also made at least ten in-depth videos on D5 OCing and discussing random things). 

The fact that AMD put out a video pretending like they're the ones pioneering this tech and bringing it to market is just plain insulting. Yeah they're AMD, but they can miss me with that BS. DDR5 isn't new, it isn't fresh, and it isn't a mystery. Unless their video is a 45 minute in-depth look at their implementation of IMC voltage, their handling of sub-channels, and their signal integrity drive rail from the board side, then they may as well not post. Anything else they have to say is just a meme pretending like no one knows what this mythical D5 is.


----------



## affxct

You know what it is? They're smug. That's my issue with AMD. It's just like their xx50 XT launch and their utter avoidance of their terrible RT performance. It's like their marketing team is dead set on making AMD the cool kids brand and nothing is relevant until they do it. When they aren't doing it properly, no need to mention it.


----------



## Talon2016

affxct said:


> The fact that AMD put out a video pretending like they're the ones pioneering this tech and bringing it to market is just plain insulting. Yeah they're AMD, but they can miss me with that BS. DDR5 isn't new, it isn't fresh, and it isn't a mystery.


Exactly what I thought when I saw it.


----------



## affxct

Talon2016 said:


> Exactly what I thought when I saw it.


It's so frustrating because it's not even a half bad video. The fact that they reference the top-end speeds is cool. It's just late and tone deaf. They should've dropped it in Q1/Q2 of alongside their Zen 4 reveal keynote a few months back. It would've been totally fitting back then.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> You know what it is? They're smug. That's my issue with AMD. It's just like their xx50 XT launch and their utter avoidance of their terrible RT performance. It's like their marketing team is dead set on making AMD the cool kids brand and nothing is relevant until they do it. When they aren't doing it properly, no need to mention it.


To me, it's best to remember that we're not their 'general audience'. Sure, I get that AMD could be more engaging with enthusiasts - however, they still have to market to the masses in order to move units. And that's what this is - marketing.

Got to separate that from statements that are directed toward an enthusiast audience, and if we're comparing AMD and Intel here, note that AMD has far fewer resources aligned for that purpose - and that Intel is still pretty bad at it themselves.


----------



## sulalin

Chris38，帖子：29025120，成員：674948 said:


> 你好，
> 也許有人可以幫助我。
> 
> MB：華碩 Rog Maximus Z690 Apex（BIOS 版本 1720）
> CPU：i9-12900K
> 內存：2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 6600 CL32-39-39-76
> 
> 我無法使用 XMP I 和 XMP II 啟動。任何超過 6200 都會導致藍屏。
> 
> VDD 和 VDDQ 在 XMP 配置文件中設置為 1.40。其他一切都在汽車上。
> 
> 我對OC沒有太多經驗，我害怕改變電壓。有沒有人有關於如何到達 6600 的提示？
> 
> 謝謝
> 
> View attachment 2570418
> View attachment 2570420
> View attachment 2570419
> 
> [/引用]
> 首先建議你將bios版本改為1701，然後加載xmp1頻率為CL 32-3939-77 2N trefi =26xxxx。內存 vdd/VDDQ 1.45V /SA=auto tx=auto /mc =auto。內存 vpp=auto


----------



## don1376

I owed the Classified board for about 2 months before selling it for MSI Unify X. Don't know if the Dark board is the same but on the Classified each bios revision has bugs and things not working, not to mention how many setting and options just aren't available in their bios. Less then half the features and options you find in Asus or MSI bios. Their bios is severely limited. My same hardware, i9 12900k and Gskill 6000 cl3600 mem could only reach 53p40e,41ring and mem wouldn't do better then 6400 cl36. Unify I can run 57 on 2 pcores, 54 on the rest, 43ecores, 42ring and mem at 6600cl32 easily and haven't put effort into higher. Also I could only run cpu set at fixed voltage as any other voltage option ran 1.45 volts no mater what offset or what llc setting I chose. And there's only one llc setting with 6 options to choose from, no ac/dc control, no vf curve or octb options or control. Maybe they've added a whole lot since I sold mine but I doubt it seeing there's only one newer bios release since and forums complaining it's worse then last. And I'm a die hard EVGA fan. Only video cards I buy, power supplies, mouse/keyboard for over 20 years now. But their motherboards have let me down twice now z590 and z690. Again both were classified, well ftw and classified respectfully, maybe the Darks are different and way better. I know there memory overclock potential is the best from what I seen in forums. That's just my experience with them. Take it how you want.


----------



## affxct

don1376 said:


> I owed the Classified board for about 2 months before selling it for MSI Unify X. Don't know if the Dark board is the same but on the Classified each bios revision has bugs and things not working, not to mention how many setting and options just aren't available in their bios. Less then half the features and options you find in Asus or MSI bios. Their bios is severely limited. My same hardware, i9 12900k and Gskill 6000 cl3600 mem could only reach 53p40e,41ring and mem wouldn't do better then 6400 cl36. Unify I can run 57 on 2 pcores, 54 on the rest, 43ecores, 42ring and mem at 6600cl32 easily and haven't put effort into higher. Also I could only run cpu set at fixed voltage as any other voltage option ran 1.45 volts no mater what offset or what llc setting I chose. And there's only one llc setting with 6 options to choose from, no ac/dc control, no vf curve or octb options or control. Maybe they've added a whole lot since I sold mine but I doubt it seeing there's only one newer bios release since and forums complaining it's worse then last. And I'm a die hard EVGA fan. Only video cards I buy, power supplies, mouse/keyboard for over 20 years now. But their motherboards have let me down twice now z590 and z690. Again both were classified, well ftw and classified respectfully, maybe the Darks are different and way better. I know there memory overclock potential is the best from what I seen in forums. That's just my experience with them. Take it how you want.


When I ended up checking out a board to purchase, Classifieds were out so I grabbed a $500 Dark. Hopefully it'll be fine.


----------



## QXE

don1376 said:


> I owed the Classified board for about 2 months before selling it for MSI Unify X. Don't know if the Dark board is the same but on the Classified each bios revision has bugs and things not working, not to mention how many setting and options just aren't available in their bios. Less then half the features and options you find in Asus or MSI bios. Their bios is severely limited. My same hardware, i9 12900k and Gskill 6000 cl3600 mem could only reach 53p40e,41ring and mem wouldn't do better then 6400 cl36. Unify I can run 57 on 2 pcores, 54 on the rest, 43ecores, 42ring and mem at 6600cl32 easily and haven't put effort into higher. Also I could only run cpu set at fixed voltage as any other voltage option ran 1.45 volts no mater what offset or what llc setting I chose. And there's only one llc setting with 6 options to choose from, no ac/dc control, no vf curve or octb options or control. Maybe they've added a whole lot since I sold mine but I doubt it seeing there's only one newer bios release since and forums complaining it's worse then last. And I'm a die hard EVGA fan. Only video cards I buy, power supplies, mouse/keyboard for over 20 years now. But their motherboards have let me down twice now z590 and z690. Again both were classified, well ftw and classified respectfully, maybe the Darks are different and way better. I know there memory overclock potential is the best from what I seen in forums. That's just my experience with them. Take it how you want.


The Dark is much better for memory oc Idk why people go for the classified.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> The Dark is much better for memory oc Idk why people go for the classified.


It's 10 layers, so it seems like a hopeful board given that 6 layer boards can do 6600 under the right circumstances.


----------



## don1376

It's really just how basic and how many settings just aren't in EVGA bios that gets me. Less then half you get from Asus, MSI, or even Gigabyte. For a board meant for overclocking I would expect more control.

If you go to forums now both boards are still crashing on past 2 bios updates running any 2 system scanners while benchmarking. Cpuz and hwinfo or xtu, etc. Hopefully they get it worked out. Been couple months now.

Didn't mean to take forum off topic. Sorry


----------



## rulik006

i like the looks of z690 classified. Bought for 240$, now waiting till it arrives
Will se how she behaves compared to MSI z690 force.
I know about bugy EVGA bios, have X299 Dark and noticed two bugs: board can turn on without audio till reboot / sometimes you turn on the board and CHA fan goes to 100% speed untill cmos reset.


----------



## tps3443

don1376 said:


> It's really just how basic and how many settings just aren't in EVGA bios that gets me. Less then half you get from Asus, MSI, or even Gigabyte. For a board meant for overclocking I would expect more control.
> 
> If you go to forums now both boards are still crashing on past 2 bios updates running any 2 system scanners while benchmarking. Cpuz and hwinfo or xtu, etc. Hopefully they get it worked out. Been couple months now.
> 
> Didn't mean to take forum off topic. Sorry


I thought that was what made them so amazing! My current Z590 Dark motherboard, or my last Z490 Dark KP, or my last X299 Dark. I mean, it has all of the settings you need, and nothing you don’t. But if for some reason you find your bios missing something you really really need, you can contact EVGA, and they’ll add the feature(s) to the bios and email it to you. EVGA is the absolute best.


----------



## don1376

tps3443 said:


> I thought that was what made them so amazing! My current Z590 Dark motherboard, or my last Z490 Dark KP, or my last X299 Dark. I mean, it has all of the settings you need, and nothing you don’t. But if for some reason you find your bios missing something you really really need, you can contact EVGA, and they’ll add the feature(s) to the bios and email it to you. EVGA is the absolute best.


Yea, I did talk to them and they have a forum post of what features you'd like to see. They told me they would see what they could do and nothing suggested in the post has been added yet. I believe they are still working on getting bugs out of current bios. They are far worse the the problems previous poster mentioned with his older Evga boards. And it's nice to have clean bios without unneeded setting but with ADL there's so many different ways to go about overclocking them and current z690 boards by Evga doesn't give you the ability to make use of them. Hopefully future updates they'll be added.

Also my Unify X overclocks way easier and higher for both cpu and memory then the Classified, can say about Dark, never owned one.


----------



## newls1

Gotta a tuff one here i think. If in a game, the game does a CTD, is this a DDR5 memory OC issue, or GPU OC issue? Im Y-Cruncher back to back run stable, R23 stable back to back, and i ran aida64 mem stabilty test for 30minutes all with no issues, but yet in a game, Ill get a CTD after 20-30mins of run time. (NOTHING HERE IS TEMP RELATED SO PLEASE DONT SAY TEMP ISSUE)


----------



## warbucks

newls1 said:


> Gotta a tuff one here i think. If in a game, the game does a CTD, is this a DDR5 memory OC issue, or GPU OC issue? Im Y-Cruncher back to back run stable, R23 stable back to back, and i ran aida64 mem stabilty test for 30minutes all with no issues, but yet in a game, Ill get a CTD after 20-30mins of run time. (NOTHING HERE IS TEMP RELATED SO PLEASE DONT SAY TEMP ISSUE)


Probably a mem OC issue. Dial back the memory overclock slightly and play your game to see if it CTD's still.


----------



## yzonker

warbucks said:


> Probably a mem OC issue. Dial back the memory overclock slightly and play your game to see if it CTD's still.


Or just set the vid card and mem to default one at a time to see which it is.


----------



## tps3443

newls1 said:


> Gotta a tuff one here i think. If in a game, the game does a CTD, is this a DDR5 memory OC issue, or GPU OC issue? Im Y-Cruncher back to back run stable, R23 stable back to back, and i ran aida64 mem stabilty test for 30minutes all with no issues, but yet in a game, Ill get a CTD after 20-30mins of run time. (NOTHING HERE IS TEMP RELATED SO PLEASE DONT SAY TEMP ISSUE)


Aida64 memory stability test is terrible. It won’t find a fly inside of a bottle cap Lol.


Go download and run HCI Memtest. I would run (1) app of HCI Memtest per (1) thread you have. Then divide your memory size between the threads, and set that MB amount to run on each thread.

(16) threads and 32GB of ram is


(16) HCI Memtest apps running with 2,048mb each.

You need to leave a little for windows though, so you can subtract the memory consumed in task manager from the 32GB of ram.

I would say if you have 32GB of ram, you want to test at least 90-95% capacity. Then you’ll leave 5-10% for the OS during the stability test.

Each thread will have a job of testing its own portion of ram.


----------



## yzonker

don1376 said:


> It's really just how basic and how many settings just aren't in EVGA bios that gets me. Less then half you get from Asus, MSI, or even Gigabyte. For a board meant for overclocking I would expect more control.
> 
> If you go to forums now both boards are still crashing on past 2 bios updates running any 2 system scanners while benchmarking. Cpuz and hwinfo or xtu, etc. Hopefully they get it worked out. Been couple months now.
> 
> Didn't mean to take forum off topic. Sorry


Do you have to be actively running benchmarks or just run the monitoring apps?


----------



## newls1

yzonker said:


> Or just set the vid card and mem to default one at a time to see which it is.


this is what I just did and found it to be video card memory was to high. Apparently my card @ +900 mem was not stable. Should have known better as metro enhanced version showed visual corruption @ +950 so I figured +900 was enough to settle on but i guess not. Im at +780 and over an hour in a gaming sesh and no CTD.



tps3443 said:


> Aida64 memory stability test is terrible. It won’t find a fly inside of a bottle cap Lol.
> 
> 
> Go download and run HCI Memtest. I would run (1) app of HCI Memtest per (1) thread you have. Then divide your memory size between the threads, and set that MB amount to run on each thread.
> 
> (16) threads and 32GB of ram is
> 
> 
> (16) HCI Memtest apps running with 2,048mb each.
> 
> You need to leave a little for windows though, so you can subtract the memory consumed in task manager from the 32GB of ram.
> 
> I would say if you have 32GB of ram, you want to test at least 90-95% capacity. Then you’ll leave 5-10% for the OS during the stability test.
> 
> Each thread will have a job of testing its own portion of ram.


Not arguing with you on that matter, but I will say this. Prior to stabilizing my DDR5 mem OC few weeks back, HCI Memtest ran to well over 100% with 0 errors, but I kept having random weird issues in windows and just knew it had to be memory related. Opened up Aida64 and ran the mem stabilty only test, and instantly errored out. Something Memtest didnt do, so aida's test (whatever it does) was harder then memtest pro. Y-Cruncher tho, is now perfectly stable on this ram OC and after several runs back to back, mem temp was 43c.


----------



## don1376

yzonker said:


> Do you have to be actively running benchmarks or just run the monitoring apps?
> 
> View attachment 2570581


Go to EVGA forums for z690 thread. It under the topic of bios available for the boards.

It's only bios 1.12 and 1.14 reporting issues.

I was running bios 1.12 with no of the reported issues so not sure if it effects all boards. Only issue I had was cpuz and and memory related program showed my ram in slots 3 and 4 not 2 and 4 like they were.


----------



## tps3443

newls1 said:


> this is what I just did and found it to be video card memory was to high. Apparently my card @ +900 mem was not stable. Should have known better as metro enhanced version showed visual corruption @ +950 so I figured +900 was enough to settle on but i guess not. Im at +780 and over an hour in a gaming sesh and no CTD.
> 
> 
> Not arguing with you on that matter, but I will say this. Prior to stabilizing my DDR5 mem OC few weeks back, HCI Memtest ran to well over 100% with 0 errors, but I kept having random weird issues in windows and just knew it had to be memory related. Opened up Aida64 and ran the mem stabilty only test, and instantly errored out. Something Memtest didnt do, so aida's test (whatever it does) was harder then memtest pro. Y-Cruncher tho, is now perfectly stable on this ram OC and after several runs back to back, mem temp was 43c.



Honestly, just use what works for you, several people tore me a new one for using it once is all lol.


----------



## jollib

sugi0lover said:


> Afaik, those basic 4800 cl40 M-die sticks or this new basic A-die 5600 sticks which use RENESAS PMIC is locked at 1.435v on Kingpin even with those option enabled.
> Please let us know if this is not correct.


I’d like to know this too. I got dell greens and want to know if the z690 dark can unlock them. I’ve check so many forums. I ordered a dark from Amazon. Might have to return it if it doesn’t work with my greens


----------



## centvalny

jollib said:


> I’d like to know this too. I got dell greens and want to know if the z690 dark can unlock them. I’ve check so many forums. I ordered a dark from Amazon. Might have to return it if it doesn’t work with my greens


Dell greens have locked 1.43vdd/dq renesas pmic. Certain bios(es) from asus and msi boards have backdoor way to unlock it. Dunno about other board.


----------



## asdkj1740

some mps pmic on a die kit is locked edition, and mobo vendors are still asking mps for more info so as to try unlocking it.


----------



## skullbringer

Tachyon can also unlock Reneases P8911Y PMIC. EVGA still has to find the backdoor, because apparently everybody has to find their own hack...

on Apex it always sets 50 mV low though, so if you set 1.6 VDD, you get 1.55. 
on MSI it is buggy so that when unlock is enabled, you cannot set 1.41-1.465 V range, higher or lower works. if you disable unlock then up to 1.435 works of course, but I think 1.44 - 1.46 is impossible to set in any case, kind of annoying.
on Gigabyte it just works as intended, but then it has other major weirdness around DDR5 which you have to get used to, like not automatically retraining if you change primary timings, like ***?!

oh DDR5 oc is fun, isn't it?!


----------



## ObviousCough

Chris38 said:


> Hello,
> Maybe someone can help me.
> 
> MB: Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Apex (Bios Version 1720)
> CPU: i9-12900K
> RAM: 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum 6600 CL32-39-39-76
> 
> I cannot boot with XMP I and XMP II. Anything over 6200 will cause blue screens.
> 
> VDD and VDDQ are set to 1.40 in the XMP profile. Everything else is on auto.
> 
> I don't have much experience with OC and I'm afraid to change the voltage. Does anyone have tips on how to get to 6600?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> View attachment 2570418
> View attachment 2570420
> View attachment 2570419


Your apex is defective 

Check each memory slot individually to verify. 

Slot closest to cpu probably doesn't do 6600 while the slot furthest from cpu has no trouble doing 7000+


----------



## newls1

skullbringer said:


> Tachyon can also unlock Reneases P8911Y PMIC. EVGA still has to find the backdoor, because apparently everybody has to find their own hack...
> 
> on Apex it always sets 50 mV low though, so if you set 1.6 VDD, you get 1.55.
> on MSI it is buggy so that when unlock is enabled, you cannot set 1.41-1.465 V range, higher or lower works. if you disable unlock then up to 1.435 works of course, but I think 1.44 - 1.46 is impossible to set in any case, kind of annoying.
> on Gigabyte it just works as intended, but then it has other major weirdness around DDR5 which you have to get used to, like not automatically retraining if you change primary timings, like ***?!
> 
> oh DDR5 oc is fun, isn't it?!


DDR5 OCing is the WORST type of fun there is!!!


----------



## jollib

i have a a unify-x but want to build another system with the z690 dark. i was going to use the dell hynix on the dark because they have been good to me and they have no heat spreader. ive been looking at this thread and cant find any unlocked kits that dont have heatspreaders on them.


----------



## sulalin

jollib said:


> i have a a unify-x but want to build another system with the z690 dark. i was going to use the dell hynix on the dark because they have been good to me and they have no heat spreader. ive been looking at this thread and cant find any unlocked kits that dont have heatspreaders on them.


With UNIFY-X, you don't have to think about walking on DDR5 high frequency....


----------



## jollib

sulalin said:


> With UNIFY-X, you don't have to think about walking on DDR5 high frequency....


Yah I’m at 6800 at 1.48v at 53ns. Wanted to see if these ram sticks can do better on the dark.


----------



## jollib

Any chance you will sell your under performing ones. I’ll be happy at 7800


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend's DDR5 A die OC result on Unify itx

7800 cl32 44 44 30 2t
vdd 1.66 / vddq 1.61 / sa 1.1 / vpp 1.875



Spoiler: 7800 CL32















So far 6 people I know have played with 18 a-die DDR5 sticks on 7 different systems, and here are some findings.
○ All sticks can boot up to 8000 (4 Apex and 3 Unify itx), Kingpin is locked at 1.435v.
(so it seems like a-die doesn't require really good imc since most of these cpu's imc couldn't boot even at 7200 with m-die)
○ Many sticks (in both slots) are likely oc possible to stable 7800 CL32 at 1.6v~1.66v.
(7600 cl32 seems so easy)
○ Stable 8000 CL32/34-48-48 with some loose sub timings looks possible, but no one has passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles.
(Actually, most people are focusing on 7800 CL32 now)
○ Tras can't be tightened like m-die 310~320. Most likely 460+
○ Trefi max value 262143 gives errors in long session of TM5 or HCI.
○ No one has tried 1T yet, so don't know about 1T oc of a-die.


----------



## newls1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's DDR5 A die OC result on Unify itx
> 
> 7800 cl32 44 44 30 2t
> vdd 1.66 / vddq 1.61 / sa 1.1 / vpp 1.875
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 7800 CL32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570704
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far 6 people I know have played with 18 a-die DDR5 sticks on 7 different systems, and here are some findings.
> ○ All sticks can boot up to 8000 (4 Apex and 3 Unify itx), Kingpin is locked at 1.435v.
> (so it seems like a-die doesn't require really good imc since most of these cpu's imc couldn't boot even at 7200 with m-die)
> ○ Many sticks (in both slots) are likely oc possible to stable 7800 CL32 at 1.6v~1.66v.
> ○ Stable 8000 CL32/34-48-48 with some loose sub timings looks possible, but no one has passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles.
> (Actually, most people are focusing on 7800 CL32 now)
> ○ Tras can't be tightened like m-die 310~320. Most likely 460+
> ○ Trefi max value 262143 gives errors in long session of TM5 or HCI.
> ○ No one has tried 1T yet, so don't know about 1T oc of a-die.


Are "A" die modules purchasable yet to the common folks?!


----------



## sugi0lover

newls1 said:


> Are "A" die modules purchasable yet to the common folks?!


Yes. I am one of common folks and I could buy it 








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Well, think about it. RAM hasn't run as slow as 7,200Mbps for a very long time. You're going to have to elaborate 7200Mbps is 0.9GB/s. DDR5 running at 6400MT/s in quad-channel 32-bit can transfer >100GB/s. Compare 100GB/s with 0.9GB/s. Does that make sense?




www.overclock.net


----------



## CreasiicK

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's DDR5 A die OC result on Unify itx
> 
> 7800 cl32 44 44 30 2t
> vdd 1.66 / vddq 1.61 / sa 1.1 / vpp 1.875
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 7800 CL32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570704
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far 6 people I know have played with 18 a-die DDR5 sticks on 7 different systems, and here are some findings.
> ○ All sticks can boot up to 8000 (4 Apex and 3 Unify itx), Kingpin is locked at 1.435v.
> (so it seems like a-die doesn't require really good imc since most of these cpu's imc couldn't boot even at 7200 with m-die)
> ○ Many sticks (in both slots) are likely oc possible to stable 7800 CL32 at 1.6v~1.66v.
> ○ Stable 8000 CL32/34-48-48 with some loose sub timings looks possible, but no one has passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles.
> (Actually, most people are focusing on 7800 CL32 now)
> ○ Tras can't be tightened like m-die 310~320. Most likely 460+
> ○ Trefi max value 262143 gives errors in long session of TM5 or HCI.
> ○ No one has tried 1T yet, so don't know about 1T oc of a-die.


Evga released 1.15 earlier today says: “Adds support for DDR5 Renesas PMIC over 1.435V” but there’s a problem with the download file.


----------



## CreasiicK

https://cdn.evga.com/bios/Z690/E699_flashtool_115.zip


----------



## rulik006

sugi0lover said:


> ○ Many sticks (in both slots) are likely oc possible to stable 7800 CL32 at 1.6v~1.66v.
> ○ Stable 8000 CL32/34-48-48 with some loose sub timings looks possible, but no one has passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles.
> (Actually, most people are focusing on 7800 CL32 now)


at 1.43v - max clock & timings?


----------



## Gen.

Hello friends. At the moment, the board is ready to be sent to me in Russia. A little more and I will check if there is a blockage on 1.00, 1.14 and 1.15 BIOS, which is about to be released. I wouldn't want to change my memory before XMP 7000+ comes out with Hynix A-Die and 13900K.


----------



## don1376

I can get my Gskill Trident Z5s 6000cl36 stable at 6600 cl32,38,38,56 with 1.25/1.43/1.45 SA/vdd2/vddq and memory at 1.475 and temps never reach 40c. My problem is I can't seem to get it to boot with any tighter sub-timings then auto. I've tried multiple sub-timings I've seen others post here for the same Samsung sticks but no luck. This is my first board to even attempt to mess with sub-timings so I know little about how they play together. I did read over the excel sheet on timings that was posted way back and still no dice. Do I need to run higher ram volts maybe? I'll post my sub-timings when I get off work, maybe someone can give me some suggestions. All the post I've seen for these sticks are running way tighter sub-timings the what auto applies. Like I said I don't really know how the sub-timings play together to know how to go about just lowering each one in small steps. Any help be appreciated. This is on Unify X board. Thanks in advance. And will add current timings later today.


----------



## Avacado

don1376 said:


> I can get my Gskill Trident Z5s 6000cl36 stable at 6600 cl32,38,38,56 with 1.25/1.43/1.45 SA/vdd2/vddq and memory at 1.475 and temps never reach 40c. My problem is I can't seem to get it to boot with any tighter sub-timings then auto. I've tried multiple sub-timings I've seen others post here for the same Samsung sticks but no luck. This is my first board to even attempt to mess with sub-timings so I know little about how they play together. I did read over the excel sheet on timings that was posted way back and still no dice. Do I need to run higher ram volts maybe? I'll post my sub-timings when I get off work, maybe someone can give me some suggestions. All the post I've seen for these sticks are running way tighter sub-timings the what auto applies. Like I said I don't really know how the sub-timings play together to know how to go about just lowering each one in small steps. Any help be appreciated. This is on Unify X board. Thanks in advance. And will add current timings later today.


Most likely it's the CL32-*38-38*-56 inhibiting your OC. Try increasing the 38-38 to 39-39 and then lower some of your sub-timings. I have a few kits that won't play nice with tRC and tRP <39. Also 1.43v is a bit low. I wouldn't be afraid to run up to 1.6v with a fan actively cooling overtop of the RAM.


----------



## Homex-HitTheLotto

Xeq54 said:


> Any idea how 4x8 GB DDR5 sticks (half number of banks on each stick compared to 16gb stick) would run on Z690 has anybody tried that ?


Not to necro and old post... BUTTTTTTTTT.....Hey did you ever try this...? or has ANYONE reading this...tried putting 2 x 2 dimm kits togeher, and got away with base or above speed? Slapping them with voltage is zero issue...ANYWAYS.... i see success stories here and there of 4x8 setups in ddr5, and I also see people say they cant even get them to post... or can only get 4000mhz out of the 4 some...Anyways some background on my pc.. 12600k is a lotto winner for sure @ 5.4 ghz all p core.. and 4.4 ring 4.3 e-core at about 1.42vcore, will post at 5.5 but fails some benches sometimes....is on arctic freezer II 280.. ...able to pass cine 23 single and multi-core(~22-23k r23 multi, cant find screen rn... and r23 2147 single) and it will run cine at 5.4ghz pcore for back to back runs , 6700xt also lotto winner...and the motherboard has been super solid MSI pro-a z690 ddr5, not one update done, never fails on me, only when pushed hard, seems super strong.... some screens so you know where im at, so needless to say its strong, I have Kingston ddr 5200 beast memory, I can buy the same ram which was a 2x8 kit... right now for like 80$...If I wanted to get 16x2 of obviously 2g ram, i wouldn't buy 1g stuff again but I wasn't aware when I bought this because ddr5 was so new... But well I'd prolly have to pay 200-300$ and my Kingston stuff would rot Im sure.. so trying to find a way to pay well under 100$ and still have 32gb and good transfer rates........and I would not mind so long I got near 4800 - 5200 (run mine at 5400-5600 now in 2x8) in 4x8 .... here are the actual stats to my ram, it is the 1g 1rx16 stuff so I thought i may have a chance: some screens and the pdf of my current ram kit below and some decent benches for efficacy of silicon winner-ness.. thanks for your time.

-homex/lotto


----------



## don1376

Avacado said:


> Most likely it's the CL32-*38-38*-56 inhibiting your OC. Try increasing the 38-38 to 39-39 and then lower some of your sub-timings. I have a few kits that won't play nice with tRC and tRP <39. Also 1.43v is a bit low. I wouldn't be afraid to run up to 1.6v with a fan actively cooling overtop of the RAM.


I'll try that and I mistyped my ram, it's 1.475, but I'll try higher. My case has excellent air flow. I have 2 360 rads both with push/pull fans. One in front blowing in and one at bottom blowing in, 3 120 fans at top blowing out and 1 rear blowing out. So air flowing through there is quite alot. If I see ram timps hit over 50 I will add fan blowing on them. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## QXE

sugi0lover said:


> My friend's DDR5 A die OC result on Unify itx
> 
> 7800 cl32 44 44 30 2t
> vdd 1.66 / vddq 1.61 / sa 1.1 / vpp 1.875
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 7800 CL32
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570704
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far 6 people I know have played with 18 a-die DDR5 sticks on 7 different systems, and here are some findings.
> ○ All sticks can boot up to 8000 (4 Apex and 3 Unify itx), Kingpin is locked at 1.435v.
> (so it seems like a-die doesn't require really good imc since most of these cpu's imc couldn't boot even at 7200 with m-die)
> ○ Many sticks (in both slots) are likely oc possible to stable 7800 CL32 at 1.6v~1.66v.
> ○ Stable 8000 CL32/34-48-48 with some loose sub timings looks possible, but no one has passed TM5 extreme 10 cycles.
> (Actually, most people are focusing on 7800 CL32 now)
> ○ Tras can't be tightened like m-die 310~320. Most likely 460+
> ○ Trefi max value 262143 gives errors in long session of TM5 or HCI.
> ○ No one has tried 1T yet, so don't know about 1T oc of a-die.


kingpin got updated with an unlock yesterday.


----------



## Avacado

QXE said:


> kingpin got updated with an unlock yesterday.


100% Thanks for this. Iv'e been waiting for that bios to drop. +rep


----------



## wez

Hi guys, long time lurker here

Got myself a pair of kingston hynix ddr5 6000mhz cl40.

so far havent got any luck running anything above 6000mhz on a asus z690 gaming e (12700k)

Well i managed 6200mhz with 1.435v and 1.3 SA passed memtest 86, but the system is not stable ( gpu driver crash, and outlook hang)

Would anyone have a link for memtweakit or can upload it? thanks


----------



## don1376

Need some help. I'm getting an error in Y-cruncher now that says "unable to acquire the permissions "Selockmemoryprivilege" Large pages and page locking may not be possible"

I even dropped my memory down to 6400 cl34,39,39 and auto on everything else. This is with Trident Z5s 6000cl36. 1.25/1.45/1.43 SA/VDD2/VDDQ, DRAM 1.50, DRAM VPP 1.90. Yesterday i was fine at 6600 cl34,38,38,56 DRAM at 1.475.

any ideas? memtest runs fine.

Also it locks my computer to were I have to do hard restart.


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> Need some help. I'm getting an error in Y-cruncher now that says "unable to acquire the permissions "Selockmemoryprivilege" Large pages and page locking may not be possible"
> 
> I even dropped my memory down to 6400 cl34,39,39 and auto on everything else. This is with Trident Z5s 6000cl36. 1.25/1.45/1.43 SA/VDD2/VDDQ, DRAM 1.50, DRAM VPP 1.90. Yesterday i was fine at 6600 cl34,38,38,56 DRAM at 1.475.
> 
> any ideas? memtest runs fine.
> 
> Also it locks my computer to were I have to do hard restart.


Have you ran an sfc /scannow to make sure you haven't had background system corruption?


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Have you ran an sfc /scannow to make sure you haven't had background system corruption?


Not yet, good idea. I'm in process now of adding a fan blowing on my sticks. Will definitely do that next as I've had a few crashes last night trying to tighten sub-timings. Thanks


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> Not yet, good idea. I'm in process now of adding a fan blowing on my sticks. Will definitely do that next as I've had a few crashes last night trying to tighten sub-timings. Thanks


I would set optimized defaults or set RAM to JEDEC before running it just to be safe. Nothing like trying to repair corruption with sticks actively causing corruption lol


----------



## Chris38

ObviousCough said:


> Your apex is defective
> 
> Check each memory slot individually to verify.
> 
> Slot closest to cpu probably doesn't do 6600 while the slot furthest from cpu has no trouble doing 7000+


Thank you, that would be bad. 
I will check if the 2nd slot works.

On my Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero the 6600 DRAM runs stable with VDD and VDDQ on 1.43.
Is 1.43 save? I can boot with 1.4 but lower voltage causes instability.


----------



## Nizzen

Chris38 said:


> Thank you, that would be bad.
> I will check if the 2nd slot works.
> 
> On my Asus Rog Maximus Z690 Hero the 6600 DRAM runs stable with VDD and VDDQ on 1.43.
> Is 1.43 save? I can boot with 1.4 but lower voltage causes instability.


Even 1.7v is safe if cooled


----------



## affxct

Do you guys know if it's common to get Samsung chips with Kingston Fury Beast 6000C40? Managed to snipe a kit on sale at $170 and am considering trying to offload my Casters. I'm also kinda keen for better temps cause PMIC thermal pad.


----------



## Homex-HitTheLotto

affxct said:


> Do you guys know if it's common to get Samsung chips with Kingston Fury Beast 6000C40? Managed to snipe a kit on sale at $170 and am considering trying to offload my Casters. I'm also kinda keen for better temps cause PMIC thermal pad.


yeah Micron stuff sits at 4800-5200 USUALLY. from what i've read.


----------



## affxct

Homex-HitTheLotto said:


> yeah Micron stuff sits at 4800-5200 USUALLY. from what i've read.


A lot of users got Hynix. I think it's a predominantly Hynix bin, but it could be Samsung.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> A lot of users got Hynix. I think it's a predominantly Hynix bin, but it could be Samsung.


Pretty sure it's strictly Hynix, but I'm no expert. I've yet to see anyone report Samsung with the Kingston Renegade kits.


----------



## sugi0lover

QXE said:


> kingpin got updated with an unlock yesterday.


Good news even though none of the links works atm.
They should fix it asap.

[Update] Working link


https://cdn.evga.com/BIOS/Z690/E699_flashtool_115.zip


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Pretty sure it's strictly Hynix, but I'm no expert. I've yet to see anyone report Samsung with the Kingston Renegade kits.


It's the Fury Beast 6000C40 kit from early days. I have heard of it possibly being Samsung.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> It's the Fury Beast 6000C40 kit from early days. I have heard of it possibly being Samsung.


Hmm.. I haven't seen anyone post Samsung dies on any 6000 Kingston kits; I could be wrong though. Good luck with your lotto!


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Hmm.. I haven't seen anyone post Samsung dies on any 6000 Kingston kits; I could be wrong though. Good luck with your lotto!


Odds are I might end up selling to a friend if he makes the switch to D5. I actually really want them though. The cooling is so much better on Fury Beast.


----------



## sugi0lover

As DM request, this is a-die 8200 CL32 bootable Ram Timings with my sticks. But my sticks are not highly binned ones, so it requires high voltage like 1.71v.


Spoiler: 8200 CL32


----------



## matique

affxct said:


> It's the Fury Beast 6000C40 kit from early days. I have heard of it possibly being Samsung.


5600c40 kingstons had a chance to be samsung. Don't think i've seen anyone receive 6000c40 samsung kits before from kingston.


----------



## satinghostrider

acoustic said:


> Hmm.. I haven't seen anyone post Samsung dies on any 6000 Kingston kits; I could be wrong though. Good luck with your lotto!


Just look at the package and look for this.

ETMH - Hynix
ETMS - Samsung
ETMM - Micron

You can confirm by looking at the package itself.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So I have been using DDR5 since launch and ignoring DDR5 overclocking. I have Corsair Dominator 5200 CL38 which most likely are Micron. Just recently got some cheap HK Hynix 4800 CL40. I have them at 6800 CL36 1.45v. Any good heatsinks out there so I can run them 24/7?


----------



## LazyGamer

ZealotKi11er said:


> Any good heatsinks out there so I can run them 24/7?


Get a RAM fan - 1.45v isn't that much!


----------



## Homex-HitTheLotto

So no one running 4x8 1xr16 singles? I got an email back from kingston, they officially said they only guarantee 4000mt 8gb x 4 dimms and its still only dual channel, 2 sticks per channel or w.e...., but he also said over 90% achieve 4800mt and he also noted although he wouldnt say a number... many achieve the stock speed of 5200....and some with enough voltage overclock just like the regular microns do, I have mine 5400-5600 depending on the overclock.,,,I think im just guna buy another 2x8gb 5200 kit. **** it. Ill buy better ram when I snag this mid range 13600 thats hanging doors with the 5950x and 12900 at stock speeds....Maybe ill get lucky with the silicon again...When i get the kit, will report back with the info....how it goes. or doesnt.


----------



## Nizzen

ZealotKi11er said:


> So I have been using DDR5 since launch and ignoring DDR5 overclocking. I have Corsair Dominator 5200 CL38 which most likely are Micron. Just recently got some cheap HK Hynix 4800 CL40. I have them at 6800 CL36 1.45v. Any good heatsinks out there so I can run them 24/7?











Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore
> 
> 
> Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bartxstore.com


Can you make them go in-stock please 😂


----------



## sulalin

DDR5 ADIE AIR COOLING OC 9004MHz


----------



## pipes

sulalin said:


> DDR5 ADIE AIR COOLING OC 9004MHz
> View attachment 2570790
> 
> View attachment 2570791
> 
> View attachment 2570789


So good, ram model? Can you do an aida64 test?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> Can you make them go in-stock please 😂


Then buy the best:
In stock: Direct chip RAM water block


Ps there are cooper version too.
What I'm using:








Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper


Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper




www.supercoolcomputer.com





No stock


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Then buy the best:
> In stock: Direct chip RAM water block
> 
> 
> Ps there are cooper version too.
> What I'm using:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper
> 
> 
> Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No stock


Thanks for the links  I think I'll wait for the Copper supercool to come in stock; I don't want the visible acrylic.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

What tool to use for stability?


----------



## Nizzen

ZealotKi11er said:


> What tool to use for stability?


Karhu ramtest and y-crouncher in Benchmate 2.5b


----------



## acoustic

FYI, Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 is on sale for $232 on Kingston's website. Crazy good deal


----------



## nickolp1974

FYI just a heads up, for members of HWbot Splave is selling 7 binned kits of A die


----------



## asdkj1740

try to avoid a die kit with mps pmic, mobo vendors claim it is almost impossible to unlock that.
renesas pmic is already unlocked by many mobo vendors.

ask for photos before buying a die kit, make sure both sticks are having the same pmic.


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> FYI, Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 is on sale for $232 on Kingston's website. Crazy good deal


Team elite 5600 1.1v is cooler due to no "heat holder" and same performane when overclocked. 105$ per dimm = 210$. Even better deal 
@ amazon


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> Team elite 5600 1.1v is cooler due to no "heat holder" and same performane when overclocked. 105$ per dimm = 210$. Even better deal
> @ amazon


Those Kingston heatspreaders are usually a pita to remove AFAIK.

Teamgroup T-Force Delta 5600 are available in germany for ~206€, when you need RGB and ESD protection for some reason.

New TG Elite Plus 5600CL46 are also available with small HS, maybe A-Die on them or more likely improved Micron ? (TPSD516G5600HC4601)


----------



## NorySS

jollib said:


> Yah I’m at 6800 at 1.48v at 53ns. Wanted to see if these ram sticks can do better on the dark.


12900KS - TeamGroup Delta 6400c40 kit.
6800 @ 1.45v


----------



## NorySS

QXE said:


> The Dark is much better for memory oc Idk why people go for the classified.


cause looks duh.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

NorySS said:


> cause looks duh.



I purchased the Dark yesterday and it should be here Thursday according to UPS. I'm pumped as this replacement Apex I'm running does okay compared to all other Apex motherboards minus the handpicked ones five people on the internet have.

It'll be interesting to see how much better the Dark does. Plus I think that I can trade the z690 up to the z790 when it comes out through evga right?


----------



## pipes

a good module not too expensive that exceeds 6000? I can't find an IC list

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## IronAge

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> It'll be interesting to see how much better the Dark does. Plus I think that I can trade the z690 up to the z790 when it comes out through evga right?


yeah when it is announced within 90 days after purchase and when EVGA offers it for the step-up program.

within europe you are probably going to wait for that until the end of days or until Z790 successor with new socket for Meteor Lake has been released. 

EVGA fanboys from europe envy you guys in the USA.


----------



## don1376

I need some help tightening my sub-timings, done quite a bit of reading but still not sure how to go about lowering each one and which should be equal and how one timing can effect another. G-Skill Trident Z5's with samsung ICs. I ordered some Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 earlier today but still like to see what I can get these to. My main timings are rock solid in all tests at 6200 32,35,35,52 and max temp is 55c. Not looking to go super tight just better then auto. If someone doesn't mind giving some suggestions or tips it would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## nickolp1974

pensioner said:


> what is the temperature limit for heating ddr5 memory?


i always tried to keep mine below 50c, any higher would throw errors and as such be unstable


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> I need some help tightening my sub-timings, done quite a bit of reading but still not sure how to go about lowering each one and which should be equal and how one timing can effect another. G-Skill Trident Z5's with samsung ICs. I ordered some Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 earlier today but still like to see what I can get these to. My main timings are rock solid in all tests at 6200 32,35,35,52 and max temp is 55c. Not looking to go super tight just better then auto. If someone doesn't mind giving some suggestions or tips it would be appreciated. Thanks
> View attachment 2570941


real quick and easy adjustments.... tRRD_S - 4 / tRRD_L - 7 / tFAW -16 / tCKE - 5 / tWRRD_SG - 58 / tWRRD_DG - 48. Also to make it easier on yourself, put all the settings with "DD" and "DR" to 1 in the bios...


----------



## QXE

asdkj1740 said:


> try to avoid a die kit with mps pmic, mobo vendors claim it is almost impossible to unlock that.
> renesas pmic is already unlocked by many mobo vendors.
> 
> ask for photos before buying a die kit, make sure both sticks are having the same pmic.


well **** that doesn't bode well for me


----------



## sugi0lover

testing my current stable setup 7800 CL32 (a-die)


Spoiler: 7800 CL32 Setup


----------



## warbucks

sugi0lover said:


> testing my current stable setup 7800 CL32 (a-die)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 7800 CL32 Setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570963


Tha'ts pretty damn nice. Can't wait to get some a-die sticks once they're more widely available.


----------



## acoustic

Learning DDR5.. first attempt. Unify-X, 12700K (e-cores disabled, currently running chip stock), Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32

Currently testing out some tighter subtimings at 6600. I think at 1.45v I can hit 6800, but just trying different things first. This is my first time touching DDR5 OC'ing, so just taking it slow and learning  Desperately need those SuperCool Copper DDR5 blocks to come in stock! Hitting 52c in TM5 ABSOLUT, but so far no errors due to temps.

EDIT: Settings tested good! Going to see if we can get 6800 rolling now.


----------



## acoustic

Dropped voltage down a bit, and tightened 6600 up a little further.. can't seem to get 6800 stable for more than 5-8min of TM5, even up to 1.55v VDD/VDDQ, and 7000 won't post. Still trying to learn what voltages need to be tweaked. I noticed VCCSA was actually causing me to fail training on 6800 if it was above 1.20v. I run 1.1v for 6600. CPU VDD2 and CPU VDDQ don't seem to help much for 6800 or getting 7000 to post.


----------



## Nelfhunt

acoustic said:


> Dropped voltage down a bit, and tightened 6600 up a little further.. can't seem to get 6800 stable for more than 5-8min of TM5, even up to 1.55v VDD/VDDQ, and 7000 won't post. Still trying to learn what voltages need to be tweaked. I noticed VCCSA was actually causing me to fail training on 6800 if it was above 1.20v. I run 1.1v for 6600. CPU VDD2 and CPU VDDQ don't seem to help much for 6800 or getting 7000 to post.


@6800 *for me* it´s impossible to get RRD_L lower than 8. Try to set it as RRD_L 8 / RRD_S 4, and often RDRD_sg can´t go below 14, you may try it.
You may as well try WRRD_sg/dg 56/46. And RFCpb auto, VDD/Q 1.45/1.42, TX/IMC 1.38V.


----------



## This is a hat.

Kingpin is good.!
Someone here passed by 8000 cl34 yesterday...

Hynix A-die DDR5 8000 CL34 Tm5 안정기(feat. Z690 Dark kingpin) > 오버클럭 | 쿨엔조이 (coolenjoy.net)


----------



## 673714

acoustic said:


> FYI, Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 is on sale for $232 on Kingston's website. Crazy good deal


I have to admit I am very tempted to order these. Anyone know if the RGB on these will work with Aura Sync? Or if Kingston provides shipping for returns at least? lol


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> a good module not too expensive that exceeds 6000? I can't find an IC list
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up 

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## NorySS

acoustic said:


> Dropped voltage down a bit, and tightened 6600 up a little further.. can't seem to get 6800 stable for more than 5-8min of TM5, even up to 1.55v VDD/VDDQ, and 7000 won't post. Still trying to learn what voltages need to be tweaked. I noticed VCCSA was actually causing me to fail training on 6800 if it was above 1.20v. I run 1.1v for 6600. CPU VDD2 and CPU VDDQ don't seem to help much for 6800 or getting 7000 to post.
> 
> View attachment 2571059


see my post from earlier. 6800 daily took some time to find the sweet spot of the SA, CPU VDD/VDDQ with my 12900KS chip. 
Dram didnt need more than 1.45v


----------



## acoustic

Nelfhunt said:


> @6800 *for me* it´s impossible to get RRD_L lower than 8. Try to set it as RRD_L 8 / RRD_S 4, and often RDRD_sg can´t go below 14, you may try it.
> You may as well try WRRD_sg/dg 56/46. And RFCpb auto, VDD/Q 1.45/1.42, TX/IMC 1.38V.


Will check that out tomorrow, thanks!



NorySS said:


> see my post from earlier. 6800 daily took some time to find the sweet spot of the SA, CPU VDD/VDDQ with my 12900KS chip.
> Dram didnt need more than 1.45v


Yeah I'll have to keep playing around with it. She's sensitive above 6600, that's for sure.

Here's an MLC latency run with the tightened 6600; really happy with the latency.


----------



## Avacado

sulalin said:


> DDR5 ADIE AIR COOLING OC 9004MHz
> View attachment 2570790
> 
> View attachment 2570791
> 
> View attachment 2570789


Whats the latency like at those timings tho?


----------



## domdtxdissar

*Second Generation DDR5 IC – SK hynix 16 Gbit A-Die 2x 16 GB modules Review with Overclocking and Gaming-Benchmarks*









Next generation DDR5 ICs Review: SK hynix 16 Gbit A-Die - 2x 16 GB with overclocking and gaming | igor'sLAB


Today I have a glimpse into the near future of RAM technology for you, and as is so often the case in the computer hardware industry, it comes from China, where SK Hynix's new DDR5 memory ICs are…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## bscool

2x32 A die OC










Review: DDR5 SK Hynix A-die 32 GB 5600B dual rank - Page 7 of 9 - Overclocking.com


Test / Review of the first SK Hynix memory kit equipped with dual rank A-die chips, the future of DDR5 overclocking is already here.




en.overclocking.com


----------



## LazyGamer

bscool said:


> 2x32 A die OC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Review: DDR5 SK Hynix A-die 32 GB 5600B dual rank - Page 7 of 9 - Overclocking.com
> 
> 
> Test / Review of the first SK Hynix memory kit equipped with dual rank A-die chips, the future of DDR5 overclocking is already here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.overclocking.com


First time I'm seeing a performance advantage for dual-rank DDR5 too - it's nice to see that it doesn't regress!


----------



## asdkj1740

Alert #Adie teenagers. I don't know if I can catch up. because I was just informed and confirmed Let's say to warn people who are looking to buy more Hynix A die PCB green that is currently on sale in the market, there will be 2 different codes. The difference is that PMIC Type 1 (81N AA) Unlock PMIC is able to play more than 1.435 V. Type 2 (84N BA) Non OC PMIC can't play more than 1.435V even though BIOS can unlock power. can But it will not play with more than 1.435 V power as before. This might offend the Hardcore line a bit. Ps. Anyone who is hardcore will play high power when buying, try asking the seller if it's 81N or 84N.


----------



## don1376

LilOliVert said:


> I have to admit I am very tempted to order these. Anyone know if the RGB on these will work with Aura Sync? Or if Kingston provides shipping for returns at least? lol


I have a pair on the way. Over these Trident Z5s I currently have.


----------



## 673714

don1376 said:


> I have a pair on the way. Over these Trident Z5s I currently have.


You could probably tell that's exactly why I asked, I hate my Trident Z5s


----------



## don1376

LilOliVert said:


> You could probably tell that's exactly why I asked, I hate my Trident Z5s


I really wish I had done more research before buying them but at the time any ddr5 was almost impossible to get.


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> I have a pair on the way. Over these Trident Z5s I currently have.


keep us updated with the OC


----------



## affxct

Well guys, the Dark is easy mode. This is ridiculous. I feel like I'm in a meme right now. How does this board train 6800C32 CR1 in 5 seconds flat? Like 5 minutes of preliminary training and I'm already passing LinX. This is madness. I don't know if I just got a good sample or if my sticks are secretly cracked, but they couldn't do 6800C32 1.6V on my Strix-F.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> Well guys, the Dark is easy mode. This is ridiculous. I feel like I'm in a meme right now. How does this board train 6800C32 CR1 in 5 seconds flat? Like 5 minutes of preliminary training and I'm already passing LinX. This is madness. I don't know if I just got a good sample or if my sticks are secretly cracked, but they couldn't do 6800C32 1.6V on my Strix-F.


6800c32 1T is just the beginning. 7000 1T is pretty easy after some tuning and maybe 7200 1T with better binned sticks.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> 6800c32 1T is just the beginning. 7000 1T is pretty easy after some tuning and maybe 7200 1T with better binned sticks.


That's the idea. I just want to get a baseline before I go straight for 7200. Need a point of reference. I would like 7200, but your sticks basically need to be a top bin by that point. I have a second kit on-hand to experiment with if these Casters don't do it.


----------



## don1376

Anyone want to buy a pair of Trident Z5s cheap, lol?


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> a good module not too expensive that exceeds 6000? I can't find an IC list
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## tubs2x4

don1376 said:


> I need some help tightening my sub-timings, done quite a bit of reading but still not sure how to go about lowering each one and which should be equal and how one timing can effect another. G-Skill Trident Z5's with samsung ICs. I ordered some Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 earlier today but still like to see what I can get these to. My main timings are rock solid in all tests at 6200 32,35,35,52 and max temp is 55c. Not looking to go super tight just better then auto. If someone doesn't mind giving some suggestions or tips it would be appreciated. Thanks
> View attachment 2570941


What is the kit rated for?


----------



## don1376

tubs2x4 said:


> What is the kit rated for?


6000cl36


----------



## affxct

don1376 said:


> 6000cl36


That kit should be framed and put on a wall for being one of the few Samsung 6000C36 Z5 kits that has yet to die. I still remember all the good times I had finishing The Witcher 2 with mine. Poor kit.


----------



## asdkj1740

teamgroup ddr master said a die on z690 hero would be at least 7200mhz achievable, by ~1.45 vdd/vddq only.


please try some four dimms mobo with a die.


----------



## affxct

I mentioned this in the Dark thread, but I noticed that with the Kingston FURY BEASTs, setting VDDQ to auto results in 100mV below VDD, whereas with the ADATA Casters, 1.55 meant 1.55 for both. Kinda weird ey?


----------



## gecko991

A die is the way to go.


----------



## affxct

gecko991 said:


> A die is the way to go.


Will pick up whatever A-die kit Kingston ends up selling once the bins are sorted out. I've had multiple D5 kits so I'm kinda adamant on warranty stuff. That and not all of the OEM stuff is good from what I've read. Amazon covers custom clearance though so I'm not sure I'd be able to do my own through Ebay or AliExpress even if I wanted to tbh. Last issue is that most i9s fall off the bell curve at 7200-8000 doability.


----------



## Benni231990

Has anybody a Pictures from his samsung 6000 full timings?

i have now 36-36-36-50 and full subtimings but not 100% stable


----------



## pipes

nobody knows a site with a complete list of ICs? or can recommend a good module without spending an exaggeration ... which I doubt but I try

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> nobody knows a site with a complete list of ICs? or can recommend a good module without spending an exaggeration ... which I doubt but I try
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Hynix ddr5 good for 6800mhz easy:








TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601 at Amazon.com


Buy TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





105$ per 16GB dimm.

I bought 4 of this just for testing.


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> Hynix ddr5 good for 6800mhz easy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601 at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 105$ per 16GB dimm.
> 
> I bought 4 of this just for testing.


There are different a between 4800cl40 and 6000cl48, and the module that you mean?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Hynix ddr5 good for 6800mhz easy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601 at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 105$ per 16GB dimm.
> 
> I bought 4 of this just for testing.


are those "A" die?


----------



## asdkj1740

amd official support by default for am5 drops back from 5600 (previous announced) to 5200


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> are those "A" die?


I actual don't know. IC's just say "team"

Will try another "reader"


----------



## pensioner

Ddr5, overclocked to 6400 30-38-38-50. Tell me, does tras have to be equal to trsd(trp)+12? Or if it goes 30-38-38-30, is it better than 30-38-38-50? In the Aida test, the indicators are approximately the same.


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> I actual don't know. IC's just say "team"
> 
> Will try another "reader"


Teamgroup elite is Hynix M.


----------



## Snop1K

hi all

I'm building a new computer for 13900 (when it comes out). difficult choice of motherboard and RAM. budget for a computer = any, but the idea of buying the same thing cheaper is haunting. I plan to overclock the RAM to the maximum and use such a computer in everyday work / games

I chose motherboards and arranged them in order of personal rating:
1. ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex ($785)
2. MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ($460)
3. GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS TACHYON ($400)

in my opinion, asus make the best motherboards in terms of component base and software, but overpaying x2 for msi or gigabyte looks doubtful. I had a z690 aorus master board, it is good in the component base, but I didn’t like the bios, it was with bugs, you can’t fine-tune the processor power. 12700 in semi-automatic mode heated up like an iron and did not accelerate. all I could do was 51-52GHz out of the desired 53 for all cores. I didn’t have any experience with msi, but I look on the forum for the motherboard, many have good overclocking performance of the RAM + the price is in the middle

ram:
1. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($430)
2. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6200 ($300)
3. G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($380)

I want to take CORSAIR 6600, only because of my psychological state -> factory xmp 6600 -> better chips (hopefully with selection by voltage and frequency potential) -> they will take higher frequencies in overclocking, but they are not available...; CORSAIR 6200 because of the price, availability and because CORSAIR + because I already had such a kit on hand. but I don’t have data about G.SKILL, it looks cheap outwardly, there is no feeling of massiveness as CORSAIR creates, the feeling that it will quickly overheat and trotl + they are available, but CORSAIR is not. coincidence?

I really want to use the collective experience and make the right decision. help me please _(translated from russian to english via google translator, tried to describe as naturally as possible without actual vocabulary)_


----------



## don1376

Snop1K said:


> hi all
> 
> I'm building a new computer for 13900 (when it comes out). difficult choice of motherboard and RAM. budget for a computer = any, but the idea of buying the same thing cheaper is haunting. I plan to overclock the RAM to the maximum and use such a computer in everyday work / games
> 
> I chose motherboards and arranged them in order of personal rating:
> 1. ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex ($785)
> 2. MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ($460)
> 3. GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS TACHYON ($400)
> 
> in my opinion, asus make the best motherboards in terms of component base and software, but overpaying x2 for msi or gigabyte looks doubtful. I had a z690 aorus master board, it is good in the component base, but I didn’t like the bios, it was with bugs, you can’t fine-tune the processor power. 12700 in semi-automatic mode heated up like an iron and did not accelerate. all I could do was 51-52GHz out of the desired 53 for all cores. I didn’t have any experience with msi, but I look on the forum for the motherboard, many have good overclocking performance of the RAM + the price is in the middle
> 
> ram:
> 1. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($430)
> 2. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6200 ($300)
> 3. G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($380)
> 
> I want to take CORSAIR 6600, only because of my psychological state -> factory xmp 6600 -> better chips (hopefully with selection by voltage and frequency potential) -> they will take higher frequencies in overclocking, but they are not available...; CORSAIR 6200 because of the price, availability and because CORSAIR + because I already had such a kit on hand. but I don’t have data about G.SKILL, it looks cheap outwardly, there is no feeling of massiveness as CORSAIR creates, the feeling that it will quickly overheat and trotl + they are available, but CORSAIR is not. coincidence?
> 
> I really want to use the collective experience and make the right decision. help me please _(translated from russian to english via google translator, tried to describe as naturally as possible without actual vocabulary)_


Don't get the Gskill unless they changed from samsung ics.


----------



## 673714

don1376 said:


> Don't get the Gskill unless they changed from samsung ics.


Also, don't get G.Skill unless they started putting a thermal pad between the PMIC and the heat spreader. You know what, just don't get G.Skill.


----------



## pensioner

LilOliVert said:


> Also, don't get G.Skill unless they started putting a thermal pad between the PMIC and the heat spreader.


I hurried and bought g.skill z5. They heat up strongly. Could you tell me the instructions, give a link, how can I fix them myself?


----------



## Ketku-

pensioner said:


> I hurried and bought g.skill z5. They heat up strongly. Could you tell me the instructions, give a link, how can I fix them myself?


G.Skill really need new heatsink or best way is water cool. 

When G.Skill 6400 CL32 was released, i buy them and installed asap WaterBlock and vola they are now nice temps.


----------



## don1376

Benni231990 said:


> Has anybody a Pictures from his samsung 6000 full timings?
> 
> i have now 36-36-36-50 and full subtimings but not 100% stable
> View attachment 2571380


This is as tight as I've been able to go on my GSkill 6000cl36 samsung ICs @ 1.400v where my max temp is right at 50-52c. Might be able to take some sub-timings a little tighter, but not worth corrupting my windows install again and having to recover it and since my Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 arrive tomorrow.


----------



## pensioner

Ketku- said:


> G.Skill really need new heatsink or best way is water cool


I ordered alseye cram. I don't know if it will help


----------



## newls1

Snop1K said:


> hi all
> 
> I'm building a new computer for 13900 (when it comes out). difficult choice of motherboard and RAM. budget for a computer = any, but the idea of buying the same thing cheaper is haunting. I plan to overclock the RAM to the maximum and use such a computer in everyday work / games
> 
> I chose motherboards and arranged them in order of personal rating:
> 1. ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex ($785)
> 2. MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ($460)
> 3. GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS TACHYON ($400)
> 
> in my opinion, asus make the best motherboards in terms of component base and software, but overpaying x2 for msi or gigabyte looks doubtful. I had a z690 aorus master board, it is good in the component base, but I didn’t like the bios, it was with bugs, you can’t fine-tune the processor power. 12700 in semi-automatic mode heated up like an iron and did not accelerate. all I could do was 51-52GHz out of the desired 53 for all cores. I didn’t have any experience with msi, but I look on the forum for the motherboard, many have good overclocking performance of the RAM + the price is in the middle
> 
> ram:
> 1. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($430)
> 2. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6200 ($300)
> 3. G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($380)
> 
> I want to take CORSAIR 6600, only because of my psychological state -> factory xmp 6600 -> better chips (hopefully with selection by voltage and frequency potential) -> they will take higher frequencies in overclocking, but they are not available...; CORSAIR 6200 because of the price, availability and because CORSAIR + because I already had such a kit on hand. but I don’t have data about G.SKILL, it looks cheap outwardly, there is no feeling of massiveness as CORSAIR creates, the feeling that it will quickly overheat and trotl + they are available, but CORSAIR is not. coincidence?
> 
> I really want to use the collective experience and make the right decision. help me please _(translated from russian to english via google translator, tried to describe as naturally as possible without actual vocabulary)_


evga Dark or unify X are what I would recommend only. eVGA Dark specifically! That damn board can clock some ram! ram is a toss up, I bought the Trident Z's 6400 CL32 which can be had for sub 300$ now, and on the nearing horizon is Hynix "A" die which will be amazing for 7000+ Speeds.. so watch out for that


----------



## don1376

Can get the kingston Renegades same 6400cl32 for $233 right now from Kingston.


----------



## LazyGamer

pensioner said:


> I ordered alseye cram. I don't know if it will help


I've been using one; didn't have it when I was playing with the G.Skill 6400 C32 kit, but it worked well with the 5600 C36 kit with Samsung ICs as well as a Corsair DP 6200 C36 and Kingston 5600 C40 2x 32GB (both Hynix ICs). Temps under 40c at worst, with the Kingston having very little heatspreader area and being very short in comparison.

I'm more limited by using a four-slot board with a 12700k; best I've done, Hynix or Samsung ICs, has been 6200. Hynix 2x 16GB I've booted as high as 6600 but couldn't stabilize, and 2x 32GB as high as 6000 but haven't been able to stabilize even 5800 yet.



don1376 said:


> but not worth corrupting my windows install again and having to recover it


I haven't fully corrupted my install yet, but with plenty of BSODs, some wacky boot behavior, and six months of cruft, I'm about ready to rebuild it anyway. Biggest concern: Office licenses. They're a pain!


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Snop1K said:


> hi all
> 
> I'm building a new computer for 13900 (when it comes out). difficult choice of motherboard and RAM. budget for a computer = any, but the idea of buying the same thing cheaper is haunting. I plan to overclock the RAM to the maximum and use such a computer in everyday work / games
> 
> I chose motherboards and arranged them in order of personal rating:
> 1. ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex ($785)
> 2. MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ($460)
> 3. GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS TACHYON ($400)
> 
> in my opinion, asus make the best motherboards in terms of component base and software, but overpaying x2 for msi or gigabyte looks doubtful. I had a z690 aorus master board, it is good in the component base, but I didn’t like the bios, it was with bugs, you can’t fine-tune the processor power. 12700 in semi-automatic mode heated up like an iron and did not accelerate. all I could do was 51-52GHz out of the desired 53 for all cores. I didn’t have any experience with msi, but I look on the forum for the motherboard, many have good overclocking performance of the RAM + the price is in the middle
> 
> ram:
> 1. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($430)
> 2. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6200 ($300)
> 3. G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($380)
> 
> I want to take CORSAIR 6600, only because of my psychological state -> factory xmp 6600 -> better chips (hopefully with selection by voltage and frequency potential) -> they will take higher frequencies in overclocking, but they are not available...; CORSAIR 6200 because of the price, availability and because CORSAIR + because I already had such a kit on hand. but I don’t have data about G.SKILL, it looks cheap outwardly, there is no feeling of massiveness as CORSAIR creates, the feeling that it will quickly overheat and trotl + they are available, but CORSAIR is not. coincidence?
> 
> I really want to use the collective experience and make the right decision. help me please _(translated from russian to english via google translator, tried to describe as naturally as possible without actual vocabulary)_



Get the Dark Mother Board Bro.


----------



## domdtxdissar

IC information for Corsair 6600 MT/s 32-39-39-76 
This is regular Hynix m-die yes ?











































Barts custom copper heatsinks get installed tomorrow in preparation for my 7950x build 😇


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

domdtxdissar said:


> IC information for Corsair 6600 MT/s 32-39-39-76
> This is regular Hynix m-die yes ?
> View attachment 2571489
> View attachment 2571490
> View attachment 2571491
> View attachment 2571492
> View attachment 2571493
> View attachment 2571494
> View attachment 2571495
> 
> Barts custom copper heatsinks get installed tomorrow in preparation for my 7950x build 😇


If I have teamgroup 6400 with rgb, how hard is it to remove those heat spreaders do you know?


----------



## domdtxdissar

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> If I have teamgroup 6400 with rgb, how hard is it to remove those heat spreaders do you know?


I just gave my sticks a bath in thinner (aceton) as shown in picture 4.. 
3 hours later when i went to check on them, the heatsinks came right off


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

domdtxdissar said:


> I just gave my sticks a bath in thinner (aceton) as shown in picture 4..
> 3 hours later when i went to check on them, the heatsinks came right off


I have infinite access to acetone lol. It doesn't eat at the PCB?


----------



## domdtxdissar

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I have infinite access to acetone lol. It doesn't eat at the PCB?


Nope, PCB should be fine..
Here is the video where i first saw it


----------



## bscool

Snop1K said:


> hi all
> 
> I'm building a new computer for 13900 (when it comes out). difficult choice of motherboard and RAM. budget for a computer = any, but the idea of buying the same thing cheaper is haunting. I plan to overclock the RAM to the maximum and use such a computer in everyday work / games
> 
> I chose motherboards and arranged them in order of personal rating:
> 1. ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex ($785)
> 2. MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ($460)
> 3. GIGABYTE Z690 AORUS TACHYON ($400)
> 
> in my opinion, asus make the best motherboards in terms of component base and software, but overpaying x2 for msi or gigabyte looks doubtful. I had a z690 aorus master board, it is good in the component base, but I didn’t like the bios, it was with bugs, you can’t fine-tune the processor power. 12700 in semi-automatic mode heated up like an iron and did not accelerate. all I could do was 51-52GHz out of the desired 53 for all cores. I didn’t have any experience with msi, but I look on the forum for the motherboard, many have good overclocking performance of the RAM + the price is in the middle
> 
> ram:
> 1. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($430)
> 2. CORSAIR Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6200 ($300)
> 3. G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 6600 ($380)
> 
> I want to take CORSAIR 6600, only because of my psychological state -> factory xmp 6600 -> better chips (hopefully with selection by voltage and frequency potential) -> they will take higher frequencies in overclocking, but they are not available...; CORSAIR 6200 because of the price, availability and because CORSAIR + because I already had such a kit on hand. but I don’t have data about G.SKILL, it looks cheap outwardly, there is no feeling of massiveness as CORSAIR creates, the feeling that it will quickly overheat and trotl + they are available, but CORSAIR is not. coincidence?
> 
> I really want to use the collective experience and make the right decision. help me please _(translated from russian to english via google translator, tried to describe as naturally as possible without actual vocabulary)_


I wouldnt buy anything right now if you are building for 13900k. Newer boards should be better and new A die should be easier to get by then.

Buy now and the stuff out in the next couple months will be doing 400-800+ mhz better on mem OC I would guess. I bet we see XMP kits of 7000+ for z790.


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> G.Skill really need new heatsink or best way is water cool.
> 
> When G.Skill 6400 CL32 was released, i buy them and installed asap WaterBlock and vola they are now nice temps.


DDr5 without heatspreader is the best for active aircooling. Heatspreaders is epic fail on ddr5.


----------



## 673714

Nizzen said:


> DDr5 without heatspreader is the best for active aircooling. Heatspreaders is epic fail on ddr5.


I would totally raw dog my z5s if I didn't care what they looked like


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> DDr5 without heatspreader is the best for active aircooling. Heatspreaders is epic fail on ddr5.


You sure about that ? My air cooled ddr4 say hello! 


























^^ worked out very nicely... b-die @ ~1.6vdimm = ~13 degrees over ambient at max load (after a 2 hours testmem5 1usmus run)
Planning to do the same with these ddr5 sticks


----------



## tubs2x4

don1376 said:


> This is as tight as I've been able to go on my GSkill 6000cl36 samsung ICs @ 1.400v where my max temp is right at 50-52c. Might be able to take some sub-timings a little tighter, but not worth corrupting my windows install again and having to recover it and since my Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 arrive tomorrow.
> View attachment 2571462


Report back how the kingstons are.


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> You sure about that ? My air cooled ddr4 say hello!
> View attachment 2571499
> View attachment 2571500
> View attachment 2571501
> View attachment 2571502
> 
> 
> ^^ worked out very nicely... b-die @ ~1.6vdimm = ~13 degrees over ambient


I mean stock heatspreaders 
My Supercool direct chip waterblock is pretty good without water too, only air. Very good actually  500 gram dimm coolers LOL


----------



## pipes

domdtxdissar said:


> You sure about that ? My air cooled ddr4 say hello!
> View attachment 2571499
> View attachment 2571500
> View attachment 2571501
> View attachment 2571502
> 
> 
> ^^ worked out very nicely... b-die @ ~1.6vdimm = ~13 degrees over ambient at max load (after a 2 hours testmem5 1usmus run)
> Planning to do the same with these ddr5 sticks


What thermal paste have you use?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Benni231990

don1376 said:


> This is as tight as I've been able to go on my GSkill 6000cl36 samsung ICs @ 1.400v where my max temp is right at 50-52c. Might be able to take some sub-timings a little tighter, but not worth corrupting my windows install again and having to recover it and since my Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 arrive tomorrow.


This is the tightest stable Timings i can get with my Gskill 6000 CL40 Samsung


----------



## tubs2x4

A


Benni231990 said:


> This is the tightest stable Timings i can get with my Gskill 6000 CL40 Samsung
> 
> View attachment 2571509


At what dram voltage is that?


----------



## Talon2016

tubs2x4 said:


> Report back how the kingstons are.


I've been using the Kingstons for a couple weeks now. They're better than my G.Skill 6400 CL32 kit. 6933 CL32 1.5v on my Dark is easy. They boot 7200 CL32 but I can't get them stable. I'm terrible at memory tuning though.


----------



## QXE

SK Hynix A die with MPS5100. If anyone has more info on this pmic please dm me. My sticks finally came


----------



## acoustic

Anyone had instability with tRFC/tRFCpb causing small errors over 8-10hr runs of Karhu? I'll get 5-6. I'm thinking it's making the sticks more temperature sensitive. tRAS 28, tRFC 400, tRFCpb 300 will cause it.

Dropped to tRAS 32, tRFC/tRFCpb 450/350 and seems that's corrected it. I let the ambient get pretty high during the day today and sticks hit 53 @ 1.4v (normally would be 47-48 at reg ambient) with no errors.

I noticed my tRFC/tRFCpb with these Hynix M-Die Kingston sticks don't like tightening. Even at low temps they'll show errors at 350/300 or 360/320.

Thinking I might have figured out my issue though. Will test with tRAS tightened back to 28 during the day today to see how that goes..


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> DDr5 without heatspreader is the best for active aircooling. Heatspreaders is epic fail on ddr5.


when sugi0lover mentioned a die kit at 1.66v 50c only under active cooling, i know heat spreaders are a joke.


----------



## Benni231990

tubs2x4 said:


> At what dram voltage is that?


VDD/VDDQ 1,43V


----------



## LazyGamer

asdkj1740 said:


> when sugi0lover mentioned a die kit at 1.66v 50c only under active cooling, i know heat spreaders are a joke.


Well, they _shouldn't_ be - but it does look like at least G.Skill has done a pretty poor job.


----------



## Nizzen

LazyGamer said:


> Well, they _shouldn't_ be - but it does look like at least G.Skill has done a pretty poor job.


It isn't just g.skill that have bad heatspreaders. Pretty much everyone has it compared to bare naked dimms. Using direct fan....


----------



## don1376

Nizzen said:


> It isn't just g.skill that have bad heatspreaders. Pretty much everyone has it compared to bare naked dimms. Using direct fan....


So you would recommend removing heatspreader? Not concerned with looks if they are going to run cooker. Already have fan blowing at them. My kingston Renegades are out for delivery today.


----------



## Nizzen

don1376 said:


> So you would recommend removing heatspreader? Not concerned with looks if they are going to run cooker. Already have fan blowing at them. My kingston Renegades are out for delivery today.


I'm recommending changing the heatspreader, or atleast change thermalpads with 0.5mm high end pads or paste.
Problem is heat transfer. Naked is actual very good 

Looks < Performance


----------



## don1376

Nizzen said:


> I'm recommending changing the heatspreader, or atleast change thermalpads with 0.5mm high end pads or paste.
> Problem is heat transfer. Naked is actual very good
> 
> Looks < Performance


Right on. I have high-end pads and paste. Going to test them stock first, then naked, then upgraded pads or paste.


----------



## acoustic

acoustic said:


> Anyone had instability with tRFC/tRFCpb causing small errors over 8-10hr runs of Karhu? I'll get 5-6. I'm thinking it's making the sticks more temperature sensitive. tRAS 28, tRFC 400, tRFCpb 300 will cause it.
> 
> Dropped to tRAS 32, tRFC/tRFCpb 450/350 and seems that's corrected it. I let the ambient get pretty high during the day today and sticks hit 53 @ 1.4v (normally would be 47-48 at reg ambient) with no errors.
> 
> I noticed my tRFC/tRFCpb with these Hynix M-Die Kingston sticks don't like tightening. Even at low temps they'll show errors at 350/300 or 360/320.
> 
> Thinking I might have figured out my issue though. Will test with tRAS tightened back to 28 during the day today to see how that goes..


tRAS back to 28 with tRFC/tRFCpb 450/350 caused errors in 10min.

Back to 32, with tRFC/tRFCpb @ 420/320 now, for further testing. Interesting!


----------



## asdkj1740

LazyGamer said:


> Well, they _shouldn't_ be - but it does look like at least G.Skill has done a pretty poor job.


stop trashing gskill ddr5 pleaseeeeeeeeeeee3636e


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> tRAS back to 28 with tRFC/tRFCpb 450/350 caused errors in 10min.
> 
> Back to 32, with tRFC/tRFCpb @ 420/320 now, for further testing. Interesting!


Interested in seeing the timings you achieve. Will be tuning my sticks tonight.


----------



## don1376

asdkj1740 said:


> stop trashing gskill ddr5 pleaseeeeeeeeeeee3636e


You must have received a rare good pair, my skills are not good. Run hot even at loose timings above 6200, sub-timings don't like to go very tight, and require alot of volts.


----------



## matique

don1376 said:


> This is as tight as I've been able to go on my GSkill 6000cl36 samsung ICs @ 1.400v where my max temp is right at 50-52c. Might be able to take some sub-timings a little tighter, but not worth corrupting my windows install again and having to recover it and since my Kingston Renegades 6400cl32 arrive tomorrow.
> View attachment 2571462


has been quite some time since i had my samsung ddr5, but this is what my gskill samsung 5600c36 kit does on z690i unify, 6666c36 1.4v. I actually still have the kit so I could probably try another tune, having had more knowledge of ddr5 now.


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> Interested in seeing the timings you achieve. Will be tuning my sticks tonight.


tRFC/tRFCpb @ 420/320 causing errors after 20min.

This is where I'm at currently at 6600, stock XMP voltage @ 1.4v. I found that increasing VPP to 1.81v allowed me to keep VDD/VDDQ lower. I'm running CPU VDDQ @ 1.35v and VDD2 @ 1.36v. Higher works too, but these lower values seem to work best. VPP at 1.81v is very hit or miss depending on the frequency.

Keep in mind, this is really my first foray into DDR5. I'm having a tough time figuring out voltages compared to DDR4 B-Die, and I'm not able to get 6800 stable for some reason. Not sure if it's my chip (12700K, the IMC for DDR4 was terrible) or something.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> tRFC/tRFCpb @ 420/320 causing errors after 20min.
> 
> This is where I'm at currently at 6600, stock XMP voltage @ 1.4v. I found that increasing VPP to 1.81v allowed me to keep VDD/VDDQ lower. I'm running CPU VDDQ @ 1.35v and VDD2 @ 1.36v. Higher works too, but these lower values seem to work best. VPP at 1.81v is very hit or miss depending on the frequency.
> 
> Keep in mind, this is really my first foray into DDR5. I'm having a tough time figuring out voltages compared to DDR4 B-Die, and I'm not able to get 6800 stable for some reason. Not sure if it's my chip (12700K, the IMC for DDR4 was terrible) or something.
> View attachment 2571620


What seem to work best for me was keeping SA/VDDQ/VDD2 on auto. But that may just be my board. Seem to be pretty decent timings although I'm new to ddr5 tuning also. Alot better then my gskill will do.

What's your numbers in AIDA64?


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> What seem to work best for me was keeping SA/VDDQ/VDD2 on auto. But that may just be my board. Seem to be pretty decent timings although I'm new to ddr5 tuning also. Alot better then my gskill will do.
> 
> What's your numbers in AIDA64?


I haven't ran AIDA. I've moved to Intel MLC for testing memory - it's much more consistent I find. Really hoping to see Intel MLC catch-on and overtake AIDA64 as the "de-facto" memory bandwidth/latency benchmark. Give me a few and I'll give it a run.


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> What seem to work best for me was keeping SA/VDDQ/VDD2 on auto. But that may just be my board. Seem to be pretty decent timings although I'm new to ddr5 tuning also. Alot better then my gskill will do.
> 
> What's your numbers in AIDA64?


 As requested. I don't think this is anything amazing.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Is there a asrock timing configurator that works with the kingpin dark? Anyone have a link if so because I'm having issues with the 4.04 edition and the link for the 4.0.13 seems to be corrupt for me on hwbot.


----------



## don1376

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Is there a asrock timing configurator that works with the kingpin dark? Anyone have a link if so because I'm having issues with the 4.04 edition and the link for the 4.0.13 seems to be corrupt for me on hwbot.





FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Is there a asrock timing configurator that works with the kingpin dark? Anyone have a link if so because I'm having issues with the 4.04 edition and the link for the 4.0.13 seems to be corrupt for me on hwbot.


AsrTCSetup(v4.0.13).zip beim Filehorst - filehorst.de


----------



## don1376

Just got my sticks little over hour ago. I borrowed your settings for starting point, hope don't mind, except not sure why but I can't set twr below 48. Fairly new to memory OCing so probably something either I don't know or not doing right, but so far I'm stable at 6800mhz with 1.45v. Only a few quick memory test ran and memtest pro to 20% coverage with max temp of 42c. Don't have a lot of time this evening, but tomorrow going try and play with timings and like to see 7000mhz.


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> Just got my sticks little over hour ago. I borrowed your settings for starting point, hope don't mind, except not sure why but I can't set twr below 48. Fairly new to memory OCing so probably something either I don't know or not doing right, but so far I'm stable at 6800mhz with 1.45v. Only a few quick memory test ran and memtest pro to 20% coverage with max temp of 42c. Don't have a lot of time this evening, but tomorrow going try and play with timings and like to see 7000mhz.


Don't mind at all, glad it's working for you. Would you be able to share your CPU VDDQ, VDD2, DRAM VDD/VDDQ and VPP voltages at 6800? I'm still struggling to get it going..


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Don't mind at all, glad it's working for you. Would you be able to share your CPU VDDQ, VDD2, DRAM VDD/VDDQ and VPP voltages at 6800? I'm still struggling to get it going..


CPU SA/VDDQ/VDD2 @ 1.39/1.46/1.39
DRAM VDD/VDDQ/VPP @ 1.45/1.45/1.8

Any idea why I can't set twr to anything below 48? Nevermind, after doing some reading, I believe I'm understanding why.


----------



## acoustic

hmm. i tried similar voltages and didn't seem to do much. might swap the DIMMs to opposite slots.


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> Just got my sticks little over hour ago. I borrowed your settings for starting point, hope don't mind, except not sure why but I can't set twr below 48. Fairly new to memory OCing so probably something either I don't know or not doing right, but so far I'm stable at 6800mhz with 1.45v. Only a few quick memory test ran and memtest pro to 20% coverage with max temp of 42c. Don't have a lot of time this evening, but tomorrow going try and play with timings and like to see 7000mhz.
> View attachment 2571665


drop twr by adjusting twrpre and twrpden settings in bios and put twr back to auto first tho. also, enable dynamic RTL's under mem sub menu, this will drop your rtl's nicly to 59-62 iirc.


----------



## don1376

newls1 said:


> drop twr by adjusting twrpre and twrpden settings in bios and put twr back to auto first tho. also, enable dynamic RTL's under mem sub menu, this will drop your rtl's nicly to 59-62 iirc.


 Not sure why I asked before researching and finding out myself. Guess it's just easier to ask. After doing some reading that's what I was thinking the answer was. Thanks for the info, starting to understand how all the numbers work together. Already have dynamic enabled. I've always liked G.Skill and Samsung and still do, but this Kingston memory plays so much nicer.


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> Not sure why I asked before researching and finding out myself. Guess it's just easier to ask. After doing some reading that's what I was thinking the answer was. Thanks for the info, starting to understand how all the numbers work together. Already have dynamic enabled. I've always liked G.Skill and Samsung and still do, but this Kingston memory plays so much nicer.


Hey, also if you are hitting a wall with mem OCing and you think you have tried every voltage and setting possible to stabilize a given OC, try the Lucky Mode option. What exactly it does is unknown (atleast by me) but it will play with the RTL's and do a different training method and possibly other behind the scene stuff and I can bench 7000 with this setting enabled and possibly even more just havent paid it to much time yet


----------



## affxct

I'm not sure if 7000 is just extremely heat-sensitive or what caused this, but my 7000C32 OC seems to not be stable. It passed TM5 initially but it seems to be failing TM5 and Karhu now, as well as crashing in a few heavier games. I was gaming with it for a few days but I was mainly playing Forza Horizon 5. It seemed fine in the 3 or so hours of Forza I played over the last couple of days. I'm begging to wonder if TM5 just isn't enough for D5 stress testing. I stopped using it for a bit but it's just a lot more convenient than running Karhu/HCI for 3 hours. For some reason Linpack never seems to detect errors with regards to DDR5 on the Dark. That suggests these are straight up read/write errors and not related to signal integrity.


----------



## Raphie

Karhu would recommend to make 10.000, also Y-cruncher 10/10 runs for 2.5b
If you can’t complete these without errors, you’re not stable.


----------



## affxct

Raphie said:


> Karhu would recommend to make 10.000, also Y-cruncher 10/10 runs for 2.5b
> If you can’t complete these without errors, you’re not stable.


I've had 10K Karhu not be stable before so I'm not sure if it's that simple. These are all largely arbitrary metrics of stability at the end of the day. I think Karhu 10K is more likely to be indicative of stability though. I'm just curious as to if thr Dark has similar re-train issues. What's weird is that data channel integrity remains intact regardless of RAM errors. I'm leaning towards temperature sensitivity. 

Unfortunately we don't have air conditioning so my operating temperature during testing when I initially stabilized 7000 was somewhere in the region of 8-10c while errors occurred at 15c ambient. I have seen others successfully run higher but then there are dudes on here consistently never going above 35c on RAM temps. I'm beginning to wonder if 35c isn't the max temp 7000 can be reliably done at. 

When we do stuff like y-cruncher and Linpack, the idea is to heat up the uncore and check for instability within the PCB signaling itself (essentially). It's what makes them so good at catching ASUS errors. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the Dark is so well built that you essentially never are able to tell whether the data channel is unstable. Errors and BSODs that occur occur solely due to the RAM cells not being able to hit certain read/write/precharge commands due to voltage being too low or internal resistance being too high (heat). 

I think if you're stable at 35c, unless your ICs are super good, once you hit 42c or above you can basically forget about running 7000. Perhaps 6800 can be done up to 44c or something to that effect. 6600 I've been able to do up to 48c and slightly above


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Karhu would recommend to make 10.000, also Y-cruncher 10/10 runs for 2.5b
> If you can’t complete these without errors, you’re not stable.


There is no 100% stable, just degree of stable in given enviroment. 
Karhu and y-cruncher is a very good start.

Rule nr 1 in overclocking: Take control of the temperature FIRST, then go to next level.

Many people fail in Karhu over time due to high dimm temperature, so start with good enough cooling. There is no need to make more variables than necessary 

Example: My G.skill 6000c30 @ 1.52v (7000mhz) is giving errors around 47c in hwinfo. failed after 3hours in Karhu due to temperature.

Watercooled dimms is king


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> There is no 100% stable, just degree of stable in given enviroment.
> Karhu and y-cruncher is a very good start.
> 
> Rule nr 1 in overclocking: Take control of the temperature FIRST, then go to next level.
> 
> Many people fail in Karhu over time due to high dimm temperature, so start with good enough cooling. There is no need to make more variables than necessary


This is really disappointing tbh. If 7000 begins to fall apart above 35c then I'm not too hopeful for high-speed RAM configs. I really enjoy tuning, but with the PMIC, it's just way too hard to sustain. I'd need to keep my room at sub 10c ambient or get custom DIMM cooling. Neither of which are going to be possible. I dunno what this means for 8000-14000MT/s and beyond. PMIC + heat sensitivity the faster you go will mean people like me are better off running Zen 3D stuff. Super underwhelming tbh. Yeah this one really rubs salt in the wounds after a fairly rough last year with ADL. I guess I can't blame anyone but myself. I didn't think temps would be an issue unless they went super high like over 55c.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> This is really disappointing tbh. If 7000 begins to fall apart above 35c then I'm not too hopeful for high-speed RAM configs. I really enjoy tuning, but with the PMIC, it's just way too hard to sustain. I'd need to keep my room at sub 10c ambient or get custom DIMM cooling. Neither of which are going to be possible. I dunno what this means for 8000-14000MT/s and beyond. PMIC + heat sensitivity the faster you go will mean people like me are better off running Zen 3D stuff. Super underwhelming tbh. Yeah this one really rubs salt in the wounds after a fairly rough last year with ADL. I guess I can't blame anyone but myself. I didn't think temps would be an issue unless they went super high like over 55c.


35c I haven't seen a fail, so don't worry 

When It's failing for me @ 7000mhz around 47c, It's "max" tweaked with trefi at max value and 320 trfc. Lower value on trefi helps the temp "limit"


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> 35c I haven't seen a fail, so don't worry
> 
> When It's failing for me @ 7000mhz around 47c, It's "max" tweaked with trefi at max value and 320 trfc. Lower value on trefi helps the temp "limit"


This is strange. The only correlation I've noticed thus far is temps and the only thing that is separating now and the morning I got it stable is ambient delta and operating delta. I'm dealing with load shedding now as well so I have limited windows within which I can test and I'm going to have to start studying for something soon as well. I'm about to start testing when my power comes back on and I have 3 hours to get something stable. Will need to sleep and wake up at 4 AM for something else.

My 7000 destabilizing did not come at a good time. I guess maybe it wasn't stable to begin with. I do tREFI 65280 because EVGA uses tRFC1 so that surely can't be it. For reference, this was it. Unfortunately I was on W10 for a few days so you can't see the weather widget. VDD was 1.55 and VDDQ was 1.45. The PMICs bugged out after testing completed. I've run LinX like a billion times with these settings as well.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> This is strange. The only correlation I've noticed thus far is temps and the only thing that is separating now and the morning I got it stable is ambient delta and operating delta. I'm dealing with load shedding now as well so I have limited windows within which I can test and I'm going to have to start studying for something soon as well. I'm about to start testing when my power comes back on and I have 3 hours to get something stable. Will need to sleep and wake up at 4 AM for something else.
> 
> My 7000 destabilizing did not come at a good time. I guess maybe it wasn't stable to begin with. I do tREFI 65280 because EVGA uses tRFC1 so that surely can't be it. For reference, this was it. Unfortunately I was on W10 for a few days so you can't see the weather widget. VDD was 1.55 and VDDQ was 1.45. The PMICs bugged out after testing completed. I've run LinX like a billion times with these settings as well.
> View attachment 2571740


I've been dabbling with this thing for hours now and I love the power of the board compared to the Apex. It puts out way more wattage. I need to research more to get this thing where I want it though. I just don't know what I'm doing with this board settings wise.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I've been dabbling with this thing for hours now and I love the power of the board compared to the Apex. It puts out way more wattage. I need to research more to get this thing where I want it though. I just don't know what I'm doing with this board settings wise.


Those ones I mentioned when I replied to you on a different comment are basically if - unfortunately. QXE was nice enough go list his Dark KP OC on Afferin's spreadsheet, but otherwise TX VDDQ at 1.35-1.4, SA as high as you'd like, VDD2 Auto, and whatever DIMM settings your DIMMs can hit at a given voltage. This board is highly capable but not super easy to get a fast OC stable on. I'm considering just getting 6600 1T because I don't have the time/energy to shoot for another 7000 attempt after my current one just somehow started error'ing.


----------



## don1376

newls1 said:


> drop twr by adjusting twrpre and twrpden settings in bios and put twr back to auto first tho. also, enable dynamic RTL's under mem sub menu, this will drop your rtl's nicly to 59-62 iirc.


I have it booting into windows with my Kingstone Renegades 6400cl32 @ 7000cl32 with 1.55 volts. Having trouble getting it stable. TestMem5 throws 10 errors before completion. Also as you'll see in screenshot AsRTC and MemTweakIt don't agree on what my tWR is set at. In bios it still won't let me go below 48 and MSI Dragon Ball shows it at 9. Any suggestion on what to loosen to try to get this 7000mhz stable? It's stable enough at moment that I'm posting this while running @7000mhz. And the volys it shows isn't correct in screenshot. i'm SA/VDD2/VDDQ 1.3/1.39/1.46 and mem is 1.55 both sticks and 1.8 VPP.


----------



## acoustic

Try tRRD_L at 8 instead of 7.. I've seen other users report tRRD not being able to do the standard 7/4 at higher frequencies and requiring 8/4 for stability.

For tWR, lowest you can set in BIOS is 48, and then controlling it further through TWRPRE and TWRPDEN.

Otherwise it could be temperature causing the errors.. but not sure what your sticks are hitting.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Try tRRD_L at 8 instead of 7.. I've seen other users report tRRD not being able to do the standard 7/4 at higher frequencies and requiring 8/4 for stability.
> 
> For tWR, lowest you can set in BIOS is 48, and then controlling it further through TWRPRE and TWRPDEN.
> 
> Otherwise it could be temperature causing the errors.. but not sure what your sticks are hitting.


Sticks are hitting 47.5c and as you can see i lowered TWRPRE and TWRPDEN in bios. Bios still only lets me take tWR to 48 but it's obviously lower because these programs arent still showing 48 like they were yesterday before lowering TWRPRE and TWRPDEN. I'll try your suggestion and report back. Need a break for a moment. I was able to run AIDA to see performance numbers.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Try tRRD_L at 8 instead of 7.. I've seen other users report tRRD not being able to do the standard 7/4 at higher frequencies and requiring 8/4 for stability.
> 
> For tWR, lowest you can set in BIOS is 48, and then controlling it further through TWRPRE and TWRPDEN.
> 
> Otherwise it could be temperature causing the errors.. but not sure what your sticks are hitting.


Okay I tried tRRD_L at 8, still some errors, went back and changed tRAS to 28, still same errors but better latency. Windows isn't crashing so I feel this 7000mhz can be stabilized. I'll keep trying in a bit.


----------



## affxct

don1376 said:


> Okay I tried tRRD_L at 8, still some errors, went back and changed tRAS to 28, still same errors but better latency. Windows isn't crashing so I feel this 7000mhz can be stabilized. I'll keep trying in a bit.
> View attachment 2571753












These are some timings I'm using to combat those weird errors you're speaking about. I'm on air cooling with FURY BEASTs, but non-RGB Renegades should have similar air gaps in the heat spreader so we should be seeing almost identical DIMM temps. I'm on an open-air test bed with the Dark's baseplate and it's currently 13c weather here though. 

I'm running 1.55 VDD and VDDQ auto's to 1.45 which seemed fine a few days ago for slightly different secondaries and tertiaries. I've found tWR, tWTRS and tWTRL seem to affect stability a lot when you're voltage-limited. You set them via tWRPRE, PDEN and the tWRRDs, but I assume you already know that. 

Also trying 315 pb for 90ns of tRFC hoping that perhaps same bank operations were contributing to errors when set to 290. I would love to just smash 1.6V into these sticks, drop a few timings and have easy stability, but 1.6V makes this config less stable. The fact that I YOLO'd TM5 stability the other morning was a miracle but hopefully I can pass Karhu 10000% with these current settings as the last batch seem to be very temperature-reliant.


----------



## affxct

I've found what BZ said in one of his videos to be absolutely spot on. With D5 it seems that the ideal data rate and CAS you can do are IC and heat dependent. If you run too much voltage or too little VDD/Q you pretty much are bound to be unstable if you're at high data rates susceptible to signal integrity issues.

The timings you get related to the other conditions are essentially free. There's very little you can do to tighten up D5 configs. Whatever voltage you need is the voltage you need and that's that. Perhaps if temps are lower some timings have less of an issue firing but that's about it.

If the above weren't true then we'd be able to add more voltage to tighten up secondaries and tertiaries, without compromising stability. If you're at the max of your board/IC/IMC you unfortunately can't simply throw more voltage at the problem.


----------



## don1376

affxct said:


> View attachment 2571754
> 
> 
> These are some timings I'm using to combat those weird errors you're speaking about. I'm on air cooling with FURY BEASTs, but non-RGB Renegades should have similar air gaps in the heat spreader so we should be seeing almost identical DIMM temps. I'm on an open-air test bed with the Dark's baseplate and it's currently 13c weather here though.
> 
> I'm running 1.55 VDD and VDDQ auto's to 1.45 which seemed fine a few days ago for slightly different secondaries and tertiaries. I've found tWR, tWTRS and tWTRL seem to affect stability a lot when you're voltage-limited. You set them via tWRPRE, PDEN and the tWRRDs, but I assume you already know that.
> 
> Also trying 315 pb for 90ns of tRFC hoping that perhaps same bank operations were contributing to errors when set to 290. I would love to just smash 1.6V into these sticks, drop a few timings and have easy stability, but 1.6V makes this config less stable. The fact that I YOLO'd TM5 stability the other morning was a miracle but hopefully I can pass Karhu 10000% with these current settings as the last batch seem to be very temperature-reliant.


OK, great thanks. I'll try them out also and see if that does it. My sticks are air cooled, everything else on water. I have a 140mm fan mounted about 3" away from them blowing straight at them and set to run at 100% when cpu hits 50c. About them temp it runs at when testing the ram. I'll report back later. Need food.


----------



## don1376

affxct said:


> I've found what BZ said in one of his videos to be absolutely spot on. With D5 it seems that the ideal data rate and CAS you can do are IC and heat dependent. If you run too much voltage or too little VDD/Q you pretty much are bound to be unstable if you're at high data rates susceptible to signal integrity issues.
> 
> The timings you get related to the other conditions are essentially free. There's very little you can do to tighten up D5 configs. Whatever voltage you need is the voltage you need and that's that. Perhaps if temps are lower some timings have less of an issue firing but that's about it.
> 
> If the above weren't true then we'd be able to add more voltage to tighten up secondaries and tertiaries, without compromising stability. If you're at the max of your board/IC/IMC you unfortunately can't simply throw more voltage at the problem.


My volts for cpu sa/vddq/and vdd2 are on auto. I believe they are at 1.4/1.38/1.45. Well I know that's what they're at but I may have vddq and vdd2 swapped. Not at PC at moment. Haven't hit 50c on memory so far.


----------



## affxct

don1376 said:


> OK, great thanks. I'll try them out also and see if that does it. My sticks are air cooled, everything else on water. I have a 140mm fan mounted about 3" away from them blowing straight at them and set to run at 100% when cpu hits 50c. About them temp it runs at when testing the ram. I'll report back later. Need food.





don1376 said:


> My volts for cpu sa/vddq/and vdd2 are on auto. I believe they are at 1.4/1.38/1.45. Well I know that's what they're at but I may have vddq and vdd2 swapped. Not at PC at moment. Haven't hit 50c on memory so far.


SA doesn't really need to be more than 1.25 for 7000. TX are 1.4 is fine and VDD2 at 1.45 is also fine. SA is just a bit high but not really an issue.


----------



## don1376

affxct said:


> SA doesn't really need to be more than 1.25 for 7000. TX are 1.4 is fine and VDD2 at 1.45 is also fine. SA is just a bit high but not really an issue.


Yea I plan on lowering it, was just something I was trying to see if it would help stability. Going to put it back to 1.25 where I normally keep it.


----------



## affxct

Karhu error'd after like 90 mins so I decided to run TM5 again with different settings until I found something that would work. I ran 10 shorter cycles to hopefully catch errors a bit quicker. Somehow decreasing VDD/VDDQ from 1.55/1.45 to 1.5/1.4 and decreasing tREFI to 49000 was what did it. This does seem to be a heat thing because of how significant progressively lowering tREFI helped it. The voltage reduction from 1.56>1.53->1.5 (VDDQ=VDD-100mV) saw a linear improvement in stability. Once at 1.5 it was finally stable. Unreal.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> This is really disappointing tbh. If 7000 begins to fall apart above 35c then I'm not too hopeful for high-speed RAM configs. I really enjoy tuning, but with the PMIC, it's just way too hard to sustain. I'd need to keep my room at sub 10c ambient or get custom DIMM cooling. Neither of which are going to be possible. I dunno what this means for 8000-14000MT/s and beyond. PMIC + heat sensitivity the faster you go will mean people like me are better off running Zen 3D stuff. Super underwhelming tbh. Yeah this one really rubs salt in the wounds after a fairly rough last year with ADL. I guess I can't blame anyone but myself. I didn't think temps would be an issue unless they went super high like over 55c.


I can do 7000 30-41-42 1T at 42C. The question of higher frequency ICs is all in the design of things like H16A.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> I can do 7000 30-41-42 1T at 42C. The question of higher frequency ICs is all in the design of things like H16A.


I definitely cannot. For me to get 7000 stable again with slightly higher ambient temp, I had to decrease voltage and decrease tREFI substantially. There is no other explanation I have other than it must've been errors related to internal resistance. I think the highest temp I saw was 41.5 during actual testing. The 47c number in the post I made is a bug.

The IC quality will for sure matter, but irrespective of IC quality, it just seems like thermal consideration and signal considerations when we think about 9000-10000MT/s will start to become outrageous. What kind of an IC would they need to design to somehow allow 10000MT/s to be daily'able with an XMP on a warm summer's day on a board that has less than 12 PCB layers? It just seems kinda wild. I suspect 3D cache will be the preference of most gamers soon.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> I definitely cannot. For me to get 7000 stable again with slightly higher ambient temp, I had to decrease voltage and decrease tREFI substantially. There is no other explanation I have other than it must've been errors related to internal resistance. I think the highest temp I saw was 41.5 during actual testing. The 47c number in the post I made is a bug.
> 
> The IC quality will for sure matter, but irrespective of IC quality, it just seems like thermal consideration and signal considerations when we think about 9000-10000MT/s will start to become outrageous. What kind of an IC would they need to design to somehow allow 10000MT/s to be daily'able with an XMP on a warm summer's day on a board that has less than 12 PCB layers? It just seems kinda wild. I suspect 3D cache will be the preference of most gamers soon.


try ODTs. 48/120/120/40/40 works really well for me and is used for my daily config.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> try ODTs. 48/120/120/40/40 works really well for me and is used for my daily config.


No way! I've always seen them as an option but I've never had any idea what values to use so I've generally always left them auto. I'll definitely give them a shot when I try a different configuration. That's incredibly nice of you to share


----------



## don1376

I gave up on 7000. Here's what I'm at so far at 6800. Past TM5 and Ramtest to 200% @ 1.5v and 42c max temp. Going to test stability more tomorrow and maybe tighten timings a little more, test some more, and call it done. Strange how none of the programs agree on what tWR actually is.


----------



## sulalin

don1376 said:


> 好的，我在 8 點嘗試了 tRRD_L，仍然有一些錯誤，返回並將 tRAS 更改為 28，仍然是相同的錯誤，但延遲更好。Windows 沒有崩潰，所以我覺得這個 7000mhz 可以穩定下來。一會兒我會繼續努力。
> View attachment 2571753
> 
> [/引用]
> 這就是UNIFY-X的宿命，突破DDR5的高頻
> 這就是UNIFY-X的宿命，注定要錯過DDR5的高頻！！！！！！
> 
> 我的APEX可以用MDIE打開 7733 7800 8000 QUAD CHANNEL 在APEX上，這是Z690I UNIFY&UNIFY-X打不開的MDIE頻率


----------



## sulalin

don1376 said:


> 好的，我在 8 點嘗試了 tRRD_L，仍然有一些錯誤，返回並將 tRAS 更改為 28，仍然是相同的錯誤，但延遲更好。Windows 沒有崩潰，所以我覺得這個 7000mhz 可以穩定下來。一會兒我會繼續努力。
> View attachment 2571753
> 
> [/引用]


----------



## Gadfly

don1376 said:


> Okay I tried tRRD_L at 8, still some errors, went back and changed tRAS to 28, still same errors but better latency. Windows isn't crashing so I feel this 7000mhz can be stabilized. I'll keep trying in a bit.
> View attachment 2571753


Try this


----------



## don1376

Gadfly said:


> Try this


That's a nice overclock, 1t even, crazy.
What's your tWRPRE, tRDPDEN, tWRPDEN, and tCPDED set at and I will. Looks like you're running 1.55v correct? Mines at 47,38,47,16.

This is the tightest I can get these Renegades to at [email protected] stable. Max temp 45c.


----------



## motivman

Stable overclock with Team T group DDR5 6400 CL40. Couldn't get this stable till I removed my heat spreader, and currently cooling with Corsair vengeance airflow ram cooler (bitspower waterblock on the way). Max temps around 49C, max temp with the same ram cooler, and the heat spreader was 54C.I would also like to mention that the most reliable stability test for memory for me currently is Spiderman remastered full maxed out (ray tracing very high). I can pass 12 hours of TM5, but crash in spiderman after less than 1 hour. These settings are stable in spiderman for 6 hours of continuous gameplay.


----------



## Gadfly

don1376 said:


> That's a nice overclock, 1t even, crazy.
> What's your tWRPRE, tRDPDEN, tWRPDEN, and tCPDED set at and I will. Looks like you're running 1.55v correct? Mines at 47,38,47,16.
> 
> This is the tightest I can get these Renegades to at [email protected] stable. Max temp 45c.
> View attachment 2571884


Auto

running mem Vdd 1.55, mem vddq 1.53


----------



## don1376

Gadfly said:


> Auto
> 
> running mem Vdd 1.55, mem vddq 1.53


Tried it with your same settings, wouldn't boot. I'm a little burnt out on playing with timings getting my current overclock stable. May use yours as a base and try to tweak it and see if I can get it to boot at a later date. Nice you got 7000 1t stable though.


----------



## Agent-A01

motivman said:


> Stable overclock with Team T group DDR5 6400 CL40. Couldn't get this stable till I removed my heat spreader, and currently cooling with Corsair vengeance airflow ram cooler (bitspower waterblock on the way). Max temps around 49C, max temp with the same ram cooler, and the heat spreader was 54C.I would also like to mention that the most reliable stability test for memory for me currently is Spiderman remastered full maxed out (ray tracing very high). I can pass 12 hours of TM5, but crash in spiderman after less than 1 hour. These settings are stable in spiderman for 6 hours of continuous gameplay.
> 
> View attachment 2571888
> View attachment 2571889


Try running HCI(leave a couple gigabyte free) and also run something like unigine heaven benchmark. 
Adding GPU stress to it will show errors if SA voltage is too low.


----------



## Gadfly

Anyone having any luck with A-die?


----------



## Nizzen

Gadfly said:


> Anyone having any luck with A-die?


There is no luck with a-die, it's pay to win 

(still waiting for mine from the US, last seen in JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 😅)


----------



## don1376

motivman said:


> Stable overclock with Team T group DDR5 6400 CL40. Couldn't get this stable till I removed my heat spreader, and currently cooling with Corsair vengeance airflow ram cooler (bitspower waterblock on the way). Max temps around 49C, max temp with the same ram cooler, and the heat spreader was 54C.I would also like to mention that the most reliable stability test for memory for me currently is Spiderman remastered full maxed out (ray tracing very high). I can pass 12 hours of TM5, but crash in spiderman after less than 1 hour. These settings are stable in spiderman for 6 hours of continuous gameplay.
> 
> View attachment 2571888
> View attachment 2571889


I got your same settings at 6800 but at 32,39,39,28. Not at home but Aida was something like 109,104,103 and 52ns @ 1.5v, 45c max. Stock heatspreaders with fan blowing at them. I'll post my newest stable timing when home. Got it alittle Tighter then my last timings post.


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> There is no luck with a-die, it's pay to win
> 
> (still waiting for mine from the US, last seen in JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 😅)


It has been pretty finnicky for me thus far.


----------



## Nizzen

Gadfly said:


> It has been pretty finnicky for me thus far.


You have a good Apex?


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> You have a good Apex?


No, Dark KP


----------



## motivman

don1376 said:


> I got your same settings at 6800 but at 32,39,39,28. Not at home but Aida was something like 109,104,103 and 52ns @ 1.5v, 45c max. Stock heatspreaders with fan blowing at them. I'll post my newest stable timing when home. Got it alittle Tighter then my last timings post.


remove your heat spreaders and just blow fan at the naked ram... I bet your temps will be lower, and you might even get 7000 stable. I dropped 6C from removing my heatspeaders.


----------



## gecko991

No doubt.


----------



## Gadfly

Here is my first run at 7600 with a-die
PMIC mode: Auto
Mem VDD/VDDQ: 1.55v
CPU VDD2: 1.55v
CPU VDDQ: 1.25
SA: +100mv (1.040v)

Notes:
I have not tried 1T yet. These are green PCB bare sticks with a fan blowing on them. I was able to run 7000C30 1T with SA at default (0.950v), but required +25mv to get 7400 stable, and +100mv to get 7600 stable. 

I am doing some stability testing at 7000 @ 1.4v to get a 100% stable base profile and then will push on to 7800C32; I have seen some 7800C32 stable profiles, but all required at least 1.6v VDD.


----------



## owikh84

Testing Hynix A Die 84N BA, I can confirm that the VDD is capped at 1.435V as reported here before.

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.81U3
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
Ambient: 30-32C

*2x16GB DDR5-7400 32-42-42-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.40v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v









2x16GB DDR5-7600 34-45-45-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.40v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v*


----------



## don1376

Removed the heatspreaders from my kingston Renegades. Dropped 1.6 degrees celsius with fan blowing directly at them. Going to see what happens when I put them back on with Thermal Grizzly pads.


----------



## Gadfly

owikh84 said:


> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB


Where did you pick up the ICEMAN full nickel heatspreaders / water block? I have been looking for them.


----------



## Gen.

@don1376 Don't use them. They are of poor quality. Use Iceberg DriftICE, Gelid Extreme, Thermalright Oddysey (I or II or Odin)
@Gadfly Try looking at aliexpress - https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004068923905.html or https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004308475945.html


----------



## owikh84

Gadfly said:


> Where did you pick up the ICEMAN full nickel heatspreaders / water block? I have been looking for them.


RAM Heatsinks: IceMan Split Water Cooled Air Cooled Universal DDR5 Memory Strip Vest Heat Sink All Copper Nickel Plated Edition Silver Bright- Taobao 

RAM Water block: IceMan Cooler Double Quad Channel Memory Water Cooling Head All Copper Electroplated Acrylic Transparent Edition Heat Dissipation Vest - Taobao

These nickel-plated copper heatsinks are quite heavy and the glossy surface tends to get scratched easily so be careful when assembling. Load SPD Hub temp as below:
Bare PCB with 3x40mm fans: ~41C
With Iceman heatsinks 3x40mm fans: 51C (maybe due to combined heat from RAM chips + SPD etc)
With Iceman heatsinks + water block + 4x120mm rad: ~40C

No idea about temps of RAM chips though.


----------



## affxct

@QXE 
Unfortunately the ODTs didn't really help for my particular sticks :/. Was worth a shot though. I had some crashes in Control so I decided to re-test my daily and at 47.5c they error'd 20 mins into my custom TM5. Ambient today was 28c which is kinda awful. I'm not sure why my setup is so heat sensitive.


----------



## affxct

owikh84 said:


> RAM Heatsinks: IceMan Split Water Cooled Air Cooled Universal DDR5 Memory Strip Vest Heat Sink All Copper Nickel Plated Edition Silver Bright- Taobao
> 
> RAM Water block: IceMan Cooler Double Quad Channel Memory Water Cooling Head All Copper Electroplated Acrylic Transparent Edition Heat Dissipation Vest - Taobao
> 
> These nickel-plated copper heatsinks are quite heavy and the glossy surface tends to get scratched easily so be careful when assembling. Load SPD Hub temp as below:
> Bare PCB with 3x40mm fans: ~41C
> With Iceman heatsinks 3x40mm fans: 51C (maybe due to combined heat from RAM chips + SPD etc)
> With Iceman heatsinks + water block + 4x120mm rad: ~40C
> 
> No idea about temps of RAM chips though.


So the SPD Hub temp readout didn't really improve when you liquid cooled your DIMMs?


----------



## owikh84

affxct said:


> So the SPD Hub temp readout didn't really improve when you liquid cooled your DIMMs?


Yes, SPD hub temp is not much different but huge difference in terms of stability.
I got TM5 errors in less than 10 minutes on air cooling (bare PCB and with heatsinks). 
No more errors when I'm on water cooling, maybe due to limited airflow in my ITX build. 
Not sure if I will have a different experience in a bigger case with better airflow though.


----------



## affxct

owikh84 said:


> Yes, SPD hub temp is not much different but huge difference in terms of stability.
> I got TM5 errors in less than 10 minutes on air cooling (bare PCB and with heatsinks).
> No more errors when I'm on water cooling, maybe due to limited airflow in my ITX build.
> Not sure if I will have a different experience in a bigger case with better airflow though.


Damn, that's actually super interesting. I wonder if that means DIMMs that use PMIC and SPD Hub thermal pads aren't actually that much better at cooling. Weird.


----------



## don1376

Gen. said:


> @don1376 Don't use them. They are of poor quality. Use Iceberg DriftICE, Gelid Extreme, Thermalright Oddysey (I or II or Odin)
> @Gadfly Try looking at aliexpress - https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004068923905.html or https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004308475945.html


Okay thanks, I'll get some on order. Actually I may have some Gelid.


----------



## owikh84

affxct said:


> Damn, that's actually super interesting. I wonder if that means DIMMs that use PMIC and SPD Hub thermal pads aren't actually that much better at cooling. Weird.


Combined heat from SPD hub and RAM chips will become a new issue here, which is similar to graphics card when you changed the VRAM/VRM to better thermal pads (GPU chip becomes hotter) LOL. But I think ultimately depends on the design of the heat spreaders, its cooling capacity, heat dissipation etc. 

Also, on air cooling I noticed that my Bitspower aluminum RAM heatsinks perform better than these full-copper heatsinks by 3-5C. Maybe because Alu dissipates better than copper.

For me Kingston Fury Beast has a good heat spreader design because it has ventilation cutouts above the SPD hub/PMIC so that heat can escape through it and blowable by fans on top of it.


----------



## affxct

owikh84 said:


> Combined heat from SPD hub and RAM chips will become a new issue here, which is similar to graphics card when you changed the VRAM/VRM to better thermal pads (GPU chip becomes hotter) LOL. But I think ultimately depends on the design of the heat spreaders, its cooling capacity, heat dissipation etc.
> 
> Also, on air cooling I noticed that my Bitspower aluminum RAM heatsinks perform better than these full-copper heatsinks by 3-5C. Maybe because Alu dissipates better than copper.
> 
> For me Kingston Fury Beast has a good heat spreader design because it has ventilation cutouts above the SPD hub/PMIC so that heat can escape through it and blowable by fans on top of it.


I'm using Fury Beast now. Way better experience than with my Casters.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> @QXE
> Unfortunately the ODTs didn't really help for my particular sticks :/. Was worth a shot though. I had some crashes in Control so I decided to re-test my daily and at 47.5c they error'd 20 mins into my custom TM5. Ambient today was 28c which is kinda awful. I'm not sure why my setup is so heat sensitive.


What are the errors being thrown?


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> What are the errors being thrown?


I can't recall exactly, but they seem to definitely be heat related due to how both OCs that were initially stable began to throw errors. I have none in Linpack ever, so I just don't think it could be re-train issues. 

At the moment I've got 7000 34-42-42-28-2T with some very conservative secondaries and tertiaries testing at 1.47/1.38 via HCI. HCI caught an error 36% in on my attempt with 1.44/1.35 so I'm giving it preference over TM5 for now. 

Between boots and timing/voltage adjustments, affects seem to be sensible. When VDDQ is too close to VDD I've had far less stability, and with some of the secondaries, I can't really drop them too far. At the moment I'm sacrificing clean timings and performance for stability. Today is relatively warm, so if this passes then I'd be able to regard it as reliable - I guess.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> I can't recall exactly, but they seem to definitely be heat related due to how both OCs that were initially stable began to throw errors. I have none in Linpack ever, so I just don't think it could be re-train issues.
> 
> At the moment I've got 7000 34-42-42-28-2T with some very conservative secondaries and tertiaries testing at 1.47/1.38 via HCI. HCI caught an error 36% in on my attempt with 1.44/1.35 so I'm giving it preference over TM5 for now.
> 
> Between boots and timing/voltage adjustments, affects seem to be sensible. When VDDQ is too close to VDD I've had far less stability, and with some of the secondaries, I can't really drop them too far. At the moment I'm sacrificing clean timings and performance for stability. Today is relatively warm, so if this passes then I'd be able to regard it as reliable - I guess.


Try running Tm5 1usmus and let me know what errors are thrown and I can maybe help you narrow down whats causing them.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> Try running Tm5 1usmus and let me know what errors are thrown and I can maybe help you narrow down whats causing them.


I don't know if it's anything other than heat tbh. TX is 1.4, SA is 1.25, and adjusting VDD2 from Auto wasn't helping much over my first few days of testing. Basically 8c ambient vs 14c ambient vs 27c ambient. I think the second config I had was less heat-sensitive for sure, but it still error'd at 47c after sitting there for too long. I've managed to get my sticks to 41c with 27c ambient and this seems to be holding in HCI. It seems as though my OC needed to be stepped back each time heat load became more severe. Temps where I live have been nonsensical recently. 27c daytime and potentially 6c-8c at 5 AM on a morning merely days after a 27c day. It's made 'stabilizing' a nightmare.


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> I don't know if it's anything other than heat tbh. TX is 1.4, SA is 1.25, and adjusting VDD2 from Auto wasn't helping much over my first few days of testing. Basically 8c ambient vs 14c ambient vs 27c ambient. I think the second config I had was less heat-sensitive for sure, but it still error'd at 47c after sitting there for too long. I've managed to get my sticks to 41c with 27c ambient and this seems to be holding in HCI. It seems as though my OC needed to be stepped back each time heat load became more severe. Temps where I live have been nonsensical recently. 27c daytime and potentially 6c-8c at 5 AM on a morning merely days after a 27c day. It's make 'stabilizing' a nightmare.


run 1usmus for 20 cycles and let me know what error numbers it throws.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> run 1usmus for 20 cycles and let me know what error numbers it throws.


Aight, will do so in around 2-2.5 hours. We have load shedding starting in a couple of mins so I'm going to head out for the time being.


----------



## nickolp1974

Whenever I'm testing mems for 24/7 stability using Karhu I also put my VGA under load to put more heat in the case. As I have found I can be stable 10,000% for it only to crash in game, no bsod just freeze and shutdown most likely due to the dimms getting too warm from the heat being kicked out from the graphics card.


----------



## affxct

nickolp1974 said:


> Whenever I'm testing mems for 24/7 stability using Karhu I also put my VGA under load to put more heat in the case. As I have found I can be stable 10,000% for it only to crash in game, no bsod just freeze and shutdown most likely due to the dimms getting too warm from the heat being kicked out from the graphics card.


I've been daily'ing an open-air test bench setup, so the GPU wasn't affecting the DIMMs at all. I've found with active cooling the affect isn't as bad (when using a closed chassis).


----------



## nickolp1974

affxct said:


> I've been daily'ing an open-air test bench setup, so the GPU wasn't affecting the DIMMs at all. I've found with active cooling the affect isn't as bad (when using a closed chassis).


Yup I have a 3000rpm Vader blowing on them, granted I have it maxed at 2000, the dimms are Dell greens with monarch heatspreaders but I think there hindering rather than helping anything. I'm gonna remove once I get RPL(no system running at present due to apex being sent off) unless I can get my hands on some retail A die


----------



## affxct

nickolp1974 said:


> Yup I have a 3000rpm Vader blowing on them, granted I have it maxed at 2000, the dimms are Dell greens with monarch heatspreaders but I think there hindering rather than helping anything. I'm gonna remove once I get RPL(no system running at present due to apex being sent off) unless I can get my hands on some retail A die


Wait, I didn't know they sold a 3000 RPM Vardar. Damn.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> Damn, that's actually super interesting. I wonder if that means DIMMs that use PMIC and SPD Hub thermal pads aren't actually that much better at cooling. Weird.


I'll say that it really depends on the heatsink used. G.Skill's is pretty awful this time around, while Corsair's top-end (Dominator Platinum) seem to do pretty well.

I'll also say that if you're doing any overclocking, active cooling is highly encouraged to ensure stability regardless of the modules you're using at least until you've confirmed that you're stable without active cooling.


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> I'll say that it really depends on the heatsink used. G.Skill's is pretty awful this time around, while Corsair's top-end (Dominator Platinum) seem to do pretty well.
> 
> I'll also say that if you're doing any overclocking, active cooling is highly encouraged to ensure stability regardless of the modules you're using at least until you've confirmed that you're stable without active cooling.


I've been doing active since D4. By this point I don't see any reason not to. I adopted it a while back when I saw BZ doing it. Up to that point I didn't know active cooling was actually a big thing.


----------



## nickolp1974

affxct said:


> Wait, I didn't know they sold a 3000 RPM Vardar. Damn.


they did a few years ago when i bought it.


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> I've been doing active since D4. By this point I don't see any reason not to. I adopted it a while back when I saw BZ doing it. Up to that point I didn't know active cooling was actually a big thing.


I'd seen it used over the years - typically at the onset of a new generation of memory, but I generally don't jump on to new generations early.

Trying to just stabilize DDR5 on a faulty Gigabyte board led me down the path of doing things like active memory cooling. On my MSI board it hasn't been a problem!


----------



## owikh84

Scaling of Hynix A-Die (84N BA) at 1.435v (max), TM5 Absolut stable on MSI Z690I UNIFY:
7000 30-40-40-28-2T
7200 32-41-41-28-2T
7400 32-42-42-30-2T
7600 34-45-45-30-2T


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> run 1usmus for 20 cycles and let me know what error numbers it throws.


Do you have a link for 1usmus?


----------



## newls1

owikh84 said:


> Scaling of Hynix A-Die (84N BA) at 1.435v (max), TM5 Absolut stable on MSI Z690I UNIFY:
> 7000 30-40-40-28-2T
> 7200 32-41-41-28-2T
> 7400 32-42-42-30-2T
> 7600 34-45-45-30-2T


for the love of god himself.... why cant i get my hands on this ram??!!! Someone take my money!


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

newls1 said:


> for the love of god himself.... why cant i get my hands on this ram??!!! Someone take my money!


I believe the same thing that happened last time is happening this time only special people get the best bins while we get the scraps. They say how great it is. Rinse repeat..


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I believe the same thing that happened last time is happening this time only spent people get the best bins while we get the scraps. They say how great it is. Rinse repeat..


To be fair, the bin of M-die I pulled from this Fury Beast kit is quite good. I dunno if it's necessarily always that. Sometimes it is, but i don't think every retail sample sucks.


----------



## Nizzen

owikh84 said:


> Scaling of Hynix A-Die (84N BA) at 1.435v (max), TM5 Absolut stable on MSI Z690I UNIFY:
> 7000 30-40-40-28-2T
> 7200 32-41-41-28-2T
> 7400 32-42-42-30-2T
> 7600 34-45-45-30-2T


No unlock for msi yet, or wrong a-die?


----------



## warbucks

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I believe the same thing that happened last time is happening this time only special people get the best bins while we get the scraps. They say how great it is. Rinse repeat..


This is pure nonsense. A-die ram hasn't hit the retail market yet. Folks with these sticks are getting them from early production runs. Patience folks, the typical vendors (Gskill, Corsair, Team Group, etc) will have products with A-die chips available in the market place soon enough.


----------



## Nizzen

warbucks said:


> This is pure nonsense. A-die ram hasn't hit the retail market yet. Folks with these sticks are getting them from early production runs. Patience folks, the typical vendors (Gskill, Corsair, Team Group, etc) will have products with A-die chips available in the market place soon enough.


"Soon enough" is too long....
If I'm waiting, I waited too long....


----------



## centvalny

Imo a die will be bios specific with updated mrc gear up for raptor lake. For now, it can do high 8k+ with stability but less efficient for benching


----------



## Gadfly

newls1 said:


> for the love of god himself.... why cant i get my hands on this ram??!!! Someone take my money!


random green pcb memory has similar or the same results; you don’t need highly binned dimms for 7600 at 1.43-1.45v. 7800 to 8000 might be a bit a bit tougher, but a-die scales upto 1.65v


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> No unlock for msi yet, or wrong a-die?


Those sticks don’t have an unlocked PMIC on any board. Find my screen shot for the part number with the unlocked PMIC.


----------



## Nizzen

Gadfly said:


> Those sticks don’t have an unlocked PMIC on any board. Find my screen shot for the part number with the unlocked PMIC.


Tnx for answer 
I have unlocked a-die in the postoffice any day, stright from Splave.


----------



## centvalny

$360 2x16gb with dhl to usa


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> Tnx for answer
> I have unlocked a-die in the postoffice any day, stright from Splave.


yeah.. That guy is doing CRAZY stuff with a-die, I saw 8200C32 at 1.62v.


----------



## newls1

I used to get my CPU's from Splave, hell of a great dude


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Tnx for answer
> I have unlocked a-die in the postoffice any day, stright from Splave.


can you ask him if he has another pair to part with... i have cash in hand


----------



## owikh84

[/QUOTE]


Nizzen said:


> No unlock for msi yet, or wrong a-die?


I bought it before knowing 84N BA has a locked PMIC. 
Don't buy from this seller, it's 84N BA: SKhynix Hynix DDR5 Original 5600 Memory 16G Single Adie Can Exceed 8000 Frequency 4 Slots 7800-Taobao



asdkj1740 said:


> Alert #Adie teenagers. I don't know if I can catch up. because I was just informed and confirmed Let's say to warn people who are looking to buy more Hynix A die PCB green that is currently on sale in the market, there will be 2 different codes. The difference is that PMIC Type 1 (81N AA) Unlock PMIC is able to play more than 1.435 V. Type 2 (84N BA) Non OC PMIC can't play more than 1.435V even though BIOS can unlock power. can But it will not play with more than 1.435 V power as before. This might offend the Hardcore line a bit. Ps. Anyone who is hardcore will play high power when buying, try asking the seller if it's 81N or 84N.
> View attachment 2571164


----------



## satinghostrider

affxct said:


> I'm using Fury Beast now. Way better experience than with my Casters.


2nd that. Fury Beast is definitely better than the 6400C32 G.Skills I had. Runs approximately 5 degrees cooler at the same voltage. 6800C32 1.5V runs extremely rock stable on my 2022 Apex for almost 7 months now. Daily 4 hour gaming 0 issues. What a letdown G.Skill has been for DDR5 cooling. Can't wait for these new A dies.


----------



## owikh84

satinghostrider said:


> 2nd that. Fury Beast is definitely better than the 6400C32 G.Skills I had. Runs approximately 5 degrees cooler at the same voltage. 6800C32 1.5V runs extremely rock stable on my 2022 Apex for almost 7 months now. Daily 4 hour gaming 0 issues. What a letdown G.Skill has been for DDR5 cooling. Can't wait for these new A dies.


+1
G.Skill doesn't come with thermalpad on SPD hub/PMIC, no ventilation holes. Your RAM fans are basically blowing onto the RGB light diffuser instead of SPD hub/PMIC LOL.


----------



## Gen.

@affxct Attach ATC screenshot and say DRAM VDD/VDDQ, CPU VDDQ/VDD2 and SA? I will help you stabilize and find the best option.


newls1 said:


> for the love of god himself.... why cant i get my hands on this ram??!!! Someone take my money!


This is where the A-Dies should be. Try. But I don't know if PMIC is unlocked here or not








Team Elite Plus 16GB 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 5600 (PC5 44800) Desktop Memory Model TPBD516G5600HC4601 - Newegg.com


Buy Team Elite Plus 16GB 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 5600 (PC5 44800) Desktop Memory Model TPBD516G5600HC4601 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com






https://www.teamgroupinc.com/ru/catalog/act.php?act=2&index_id=201


----------



## energie80

Hello, I bought some g gskill 6400….is there any way to cool them down correctly? Like replacing the thermal pads? Thanks


----------



## 673714

energie80 said:


> Hello, I bought some g gskill 6400….is there any way to cool them down correctly? Like replacing the thermal pads? Thanks


They should work fine as is for 6400MHz or lower if your motherboard and CPU can support it. For higher frequencies they'll do better naked, or naked with fans, or water cooled. In that order from least to most cool.


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE 16G*2
OC DDR5-7600/7800/8000/8200/8266/8400 QUAD CHANNEL
CPU:WATER-COOLING MEMORY-AIR-COOLING
MEMORY: Hynix ADIE -81N AA(214A) + 81N BA(224A)
CPU:8P+8E/24HT
BIOS: 1701


Spoiler: DDR5-7600/7800/8000/8200/8266/8400QUAD-CHANNEL16G*2


----------



## don1376

don1376 said:


> Removed the heatspreaders from my kingston Renegades. Dropped 1.6 degrees celsius with fan blowing directly at them. Going to see what happens when I put them back on with Thermal Grizzly pads.


Done a test, I put the heatspreaders back on 1 stick with the thermal Grizzly pads I had and left other stick naked. The stick with heatspreaders was 4c lower then then naked on. 41c and 45c on the one without. Have thermal driftice arriving today. Will report back how much they drop it over the current Temps.


----------



## acoustic

How hard was it to get the spreaders off? Waiting for these damn copper heatsinks to come in stock so I can grab a block for the RAM.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> How hard was it to get the spreaders off? Waiting for these damn copper heatsinks to come in stock so I can grab a block for the RAM.


I soaked my sticks in acetone for 30 mins and they practically fell off. And didn't hurt any of the stickers on heatspreaders. And made cleaning the old material as easy as just wiping it off.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.81U3
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7000 32-42-42-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.35v*









*2x16GB DDR5-7200 34-42-42-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v*


----------



## energie80

im scared to drop my sticks inside the acetone lol


----------



## energie80

don1376 said:


> I soaked my sticks in acetone for 30 mins and they practically fell off. And didn't hurt any of the stickers on heatspreaders. And made cleaning the old material as easy as just wiping it off.


what kind of thermal pads did you use? measures?
thanks


----------



## don1376

energie80 said:


> what kind of thermal pads did you use? measures?
> thanks





energie80 said:


> what kind of thermal pads did you use? measures?
> thanks


It won't hurt them at all. And I have Thermal Driftice pads arriving today. I used 1mm for across the mem ICs and 1.5mm for the small square on the PMIC. I compared the originals to some pads I had here at that seemed to be size that matched for my Kingston Renegades. On the backside of stick where there's no ICs my sticks had 2 pieces of about 3mm thick double side tape. I reused the old ones that came off after acetone bath. Once they were dry they weren't hurt and still had sticky left to them.


----------



## energie80

don1376 said:


> It won't hurt them at all. And I have Thermal Driftice pads arriving today. I used 1mm for across the mem ICs and 1.5mm for the small square on the PMIC. I compared the originals to some pads I had here at that seemed to be size that matched for my Kingston Renegades.


did you just drop em inside the acetone?


----------



## don1376

energie80 said:


> did you just drop em inside the acetone?


Well in a glass dish that fit the sticks laying flat then added enough acetone to cover them. Put a lid on and gave them 30mins. 

And these are the pads another member recommended to me. Use Iceberg DriftICE, Gelid Extreme, Thermalright Oddysey (I or II or Odin)


----------



## don1376

I actually put some thermal Grizzly on 1 stick yesterday like I said in post above and those pads dropped temp by 4c compared to a bare stick. Can't wait to see what the Iceberg do.


----------



## don1376

The acetone didn't even hurt the sticker on the heatspreaders that has the model number, speed/timings and volts on it.


----------



## energie80

thanks


----------



## owikh84

don1376 said:


> The acetone didn't even hurt the sticker on the heatspreaders that has the model number, speed/timings and volts on it.


Are you sure it's acetone or thinner?


----------



## don1376

owikh84 said:


> Are you sure it's acetone or thinner?


Positive it's Acetone. From home depot says it right on can. Pic of sticks and heatspreader after Acetone bath.


----------



## don1376




----------



## don1376

We soak computer ecu circuit boards in acetone at the automotive tuning shop I work for to clean the coating they spray on board so we can soldier Com ports to them to flash them with our tuning software.


----------



## Gadfly

energie80 said:


> what kind of thermal pads did you use? measures?
> thanks


Are you trying to re-use the stock heat spreaders? Is so, don't. It is better to run bare with a fan blowing on them. If you are using an aftermarket heat spreader they should use paste, not pads. For the PMIC use a 1mm non-conductive pad that only covers the PMIC itself.


----------



## don1376

Gadfly said:


> Are you trying to re-use the stock heat spreaders? Is so, don't. It is better to run bare with a fan blowing on them. If you are using an aftermarket heat spreader they should use paste, not pads. For the PMIC use a 1mm non-conductive pad that only covers the PMIC itself.


If you read my above post stock spreaders with just Thermal Grizzly pads ram cooler for me then no heatspreader. I tested with one stick with heatspreaders and pads I said above and 1 with no heatspreader and fan blowing at them and the one with heatspreader ran 4c cooler. 41c VS 45c

I was going to use paste but with pad on pmic there's was a 1mm gap between spreader and mem ics.


----------



## don1376

And when testing the one with heatspreader hit 41c 7 mins into testing then went up to 41.25 then back down to 41 the remainder of the 10 min test. The bare stick just continued to climb in temp.


----------



## NorySS

Nizzen said:


> No unlock for msi yet, or wrong a-die?


the unlock works for my sticks - 81N BA


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> If you read my above post stock spreaders with just Thermal Grizzly pads ram cooler for me then no heatspreader. I tested with one stick with heatspreaders and pads I said above and 1 with no heatspreader and fan blowing at them and the one with heatspreader ran 4c cooler. 41c VS 45c
> 
> I was going to use paste but with pad on pmic there's was a 1mm gap between spreader and mem ics.


Nice job doing the testing


----------



## Gadfly

don1376 said:


> If you read my above post stock spreaders with just Thermal Grizzly pads ram cooler for me then no heatspreader. I tested with one stick with heatspreaders and pads I said above and 1 with no heatspreader and fan blowing at them and the one with heatspreader ran 4c cooler. 41c VS 45c
> 
> I was going to use paste but with pad on pmic there's was a 1mm gap between spreader and mem ics.


on that test did you have a pad on the PMIC?


----------



## don1376

Gadfly said:


> on that test did you have a pad on the PMIC?


Yes. Thermal Grizzly 1mm on ram and 1.5mm iceburg on pmic. 

Have new iceberg arriving today to do both sticks.


----------



## energie80

will the heat spreader split in 2 parts while removed?


----------



## don1376

energie80 said:


> will the heat spreader split in 2 parts while removed?


Yes, take screws out if they have any like mine did.

Edit: sorry misunderstood the question. Mine don't because they have a screw in each corner and double-sided tape on backside of stick.


----------



## energie80

should be easy to build again with correct pads


----------



## don1376

10 min run using OCCT and fan blowing at ram. With stock heat spreaders/stock thermal pads max temp was 46.6c, no heat spreaders was 45c and stock heat spreaders with Iceberg Thermal pads, 1mm on memory ICs and 2mm on front and back side of PMIC and max temps were 41.3 on 1 stick and 40.8 on 2nd stick. One thing I noticed is it reach these temps within the first 6 mins and held there till the 10 min mark. Before with stock heat spreaders or no spreaders the temp slowly kept rising till the test stopped. Only like a quarter of a degree every minute after 8 minutes so were close to leveling out at their max, but now they hit max after 6 mins. 6800mhz cl32 @ 1.5v tight timings Edit: Inside case temp was 29c, T_SEN_1 in HWinfo


----------



## Gadfly

Isn’t the temp reported in hwinfo etc the pmic temp?


----------



## don1376

Gadfly said:


> Isn’t the temp reported in hwinfo etc the pmic temp?


I would think that would be where temp sensor is located but not sure.


----------



## owikh84

HWiNFO64 reports SPD Hub temp in actual value and PMIC High Temp (Yes/No). 
However, the DRAM chip temps are not reported.


----------



## owikh84

Scaling of Hynix A-Die (84N BA, locked PMIC), TM5 Absolut stable on MSI Z690I UNIFY:

At 1.435v (max):
7000 30-40-40-28-2T
7200 32-41-41-28-2T
7400 32-42-42-30-2T
7600 34-45-45-30-2T

At 1.35v:
7000 32-42-42-28-2T
7200 34-42-42-28-2T
7400 34-44-44-30-2T
7600 36-45-45-30-2T

===================================================================

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.81U3
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7400 34-42-42-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v*









*2x16GB DDR5-7600 36-45-45-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v







*


----------



## QXE

affxct said:


> Do you have a link for 1usmus?











Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs


Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app




www.overclock.net


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


That afternoon and evening after some trial and error, I managed to get a 7000 config to reach around 200% HCI with quite a hot ambient (27c), and then after cold boot when I began testing later that evening I re-tested and got up to 450% again.

I then tightened up the secondaries and tertiaries and got the third test up to 600%. Been playing different AAAs on it and this one finally seems rocksolid. I think HCI is the most reliable by this point tbh.

I don't wanna bloat the thread with massive pictures, but here is a OneDrive if you maybe wanted to check it out: Stable

In a nutshell, it's 1.47/1.38 7000 34-42-42-28-2T with standard tight secondaries and conservative tight tertiaries.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Can copy my post from the z4 thread over here also as both platform should/is affected by this 

Normally i dont really watch this clown, but this video was actually informative:




He is getting much better numbers with dual(quad) rank vs single(dual) rank memory.. 2x16GB vs 2x32GB at same timings



> I'm a bit curious how the Zen4 memory controller will handle 2x16GB hynix m-die together with 2x16GB hynix a-die at the same time.
> Maybe I'm already all set with dual (quad) rank
> 
> Belive it or not, on Zen3 i found it to be easier to run 4x8GB than 2x16GB and *data* seem to back it up also..
> 
> (i already have a-die on its way from china to me, and m-die is ready *here*)


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> Can copy my Zen4 post over here also as both platform should/is affected by this
> 
> Normally i dont really watch this clown, but this video was actually informative:


Is there any chance you'd be willing to give a synopsis?


----------



## domdtxdissar

affxct said:


> Is there any chance you'd be willing to give a synopsis?


He is getting much better numbers with 2x32GB vs 2x16GB at the same timings..

2x32GB @ 6333MT/s is matching 2x16GB @ 6800MT/s in benchmarks/games
49ns @ only 6333MT/s


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> He is getting much better numbers with dual(quad) rank vs single(dual) rank memory.. 2x16GB vs 2x32GB at same timings
> 
> 2x32GB @ 6333MT/s is matching 2x16GB @ 6800MT/s in benchmarks/games


Ahhh. I thought maybe he had mixed Hynix die's and something weird happened. Was actually super curious haha.


----------



## bscool

domdtxdissar said:


> Can copy my post from the z4 thread over here also as both platform should/is affected by this
> 
> Normally i dont really watch this clown, but this video was actually informative
> He is getting much better numbers with dual(quad) rank vs single(dual) rank memory.. 2x16GB vs 2x32GB at same timings


How hard would it have been for him to show all timings for both DR and SR in Asrock, Memtweakit, Dragonball ect . Without seeing actual timings and rtls I take it with a grain of salt that he had all timings the same.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> How hard would it have been for him to show all timings for both DR and SR in Asrock, Memtweakit, Dragonball ect . Without seeing actual timings and rtls I take it with a grain of salt that he had all timings the same.


I'm not in ownership of DR 2x32 and I couldn't get 4x16 stable at 6400 on my Strix Z690-F (gave up), so I guess I can't speak.

All I'm gonna say is DDR5 has more than enough bank groups with SR, and it has a tRFCpb timing now which makes it way more efficient than D4 as well. GB3 DR A-die at 6600 was almost matching my M-die 7000 daily (grabbed numbers from a reviewer) so it does help a little bit for sure.

I'm just kinda shocked that gaming results were that wild. I can't test it myself so I'm not gonna call anything out, but I'm just really surprise.

Well actually, if 6600 DR almost matches 7000 SR then I guess 6333 DR almost matching 6800 SR can make sense? I guess games scale with GB3?


----------



## tubs2x4

domdtxdissar said:


> He is getting much better numbers with 2x32GB vs 2x16GB at the same timings..
> 
> 2x32GB @ 6333MT/s is matching 2x16GB @ 6800MT/s in benchmarks/games
> 49ns @ only 6333MT/s
> View attachment 2572376


 I think it was a just a difference in 1% lows. Avg fps was same across the board between 3 rams. 99% people will not notice 197 to 182 fps for 1% lows.


----------



## sugi0lover

domdtxdissar said:


> He is getting much better numbers with 2x32GB vs 2x16GB at the same timings..
> 
> 2x32GB @ 6333MT/s is matching 2x16GB @ 6800MT/s in benchmarks/games
> 49ns @ only 6333MT/s
> View attachment 2572376


BCLK OC 102 = AIDA64 performance bug, better performance than it actually is~


----------



## affxct

sugi0lover said:


> BCLK OC 102 = AIDA64 performance bug, better performance than it actually is~


Surely he knows/mentioned in his video?


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> Surely he knows/mentioned in his video?


No I don't think so. I watched the video. I'd honestly like to see people switching over to the Intel utility. Seems like it's a lot more consistent.


----------



## bscool

@skullbringer is going to be testing DR vs SR again but looking at his old test there is very little difference in Aida latency if using the same timings and frequency and I would trust his testing over most. He is very thorough.

Looking at Skulls results I think something is off with framechasers results in the Aida64. My guess is subtimings or rtls.

Skull used 4x16 instead of 2x32 so I have no idea if that would matter but from what i know it shouldnt.









Single- vs. dual-rank, DDR4 vs. DDR5 - What is the ideal RAM config for Intel Alder Lake? | Synthetics and Gaming | Page 2 | igor'sLAB


DDR5 is known to be rarer and harder to come by than some GPUs at the moment. Therefore, the question arose for me: Does an Intel CPU of the 12th generation, codename Alder Lake, really need the new…




www.igorslab.de







https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/srdrddr45_aida_lat.png


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

This is what I'm running right now on my Dark. I can't seem to get 1t to work. This is my base profile though for now.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> This is what I'm running right now on my Dark. I can't seem to get 1t to work. This is my base profile though for now.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572391
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572392


This might sound like weird advice, but maybe try reducing VDDQ and dropping tREFI. If we use 130560 it's the same as using 261120 on a <6600MT/s Asus config or any ASRock config (ASRock only uses tRFC2). I'm not sure if MSI allows you to use tRFC1 with no FGR. I assume EVGA locks in tRFC1 because they don't allow you to set tRFC2 and tREFI I've found to be kinda substantial for stability.

1T just seems to run the DIMMs really warm. I see you've also got sunny weather; 80 degrees Fahrenheit is basically what my recent daytime temps have been. I had to be really conservative at that temp to get a 7000 config to run. I might be totally off but I think heat is a massive factor.

With regards to the VDDQ thing, I noticed that when I auto it with my Fury Beasts it likes to do VDD-100mV. For some reason keeping a decent gap of 90-120mV seems to help stability a lot. If I up my VDDQ my config begins to slowly fall apart.


----------



## bscool

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> This is what I'm running right now on my Dark. I can't seem to get 1t to work. This is my base profile though for now.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572391
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572392


Have you tried a newer bios? From what I have seen the 1.09/1.12 bios are what guys running 1t use.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Play games :) Yes, now I have restarted the test and it found 4 errors




www.overclock.net


----------



## QXE

bscool said:


> Have you tried a newer bios? From what I have seen the 1.09/1.12 bios are what guys running 1t use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Play games :) Yes, now I have restarted the test and it found 4 errors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


1.07/1.09/1.12/1.14/1.15 all do 7000 1T easily.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> 1.07/1.09/1.12/1.14/1.15 all do 7000 1T easily.


I was worried about 1.15 being bad so this is promising to hear.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

bscool said:


> Have you tried a newer bios? From what I have seen the 1.09/1.12 bios are what guys running 1t use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Play games :) Yes, now I have restarted the test and it found 4 errors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


I have not. I will though thank you.




affxct said:


> This might sound like weird advice, but maybe try reducing VDDQ and dropping tREFI. If we use 130560 it's the same as using 261120 on a <6600MT/s Asus config or any ASRock config (ASRock only uses tRFC2). I'm not sure if MSI allows you to use tRFC1 with no FGR. I assume EVGA locks in tRFC1 because they don't allow you to set tRFC2 and tREFI I've found to be kinda substantial for stability.
> 
> 1T just seems to run the DIMMs really warm. I see you've also got sunny weather; 80 degrees Fahrenheit is basically what my recent daytime temps have been. I had to be really conservative at that temp to get a 7000 config to run. I might be totally off but I think heat is a massive factor.
> 
> With regards to the VDDQ thing, I noticed that when I auto it with my Fury Beasts it likes to do VDD-100mV. For some reason keeping a decent gap of 90-120mV seems to help stability a lot. If I up my VDDQ my config begins to slowly fall apart.


I will give that a go yes. Thank you. I'm a complete noob to these boards right now.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I have not. I will though thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will give that a go yes. Thank you. I'm a complete noob to these boards right now.


Well, look at it this way. 1.45V for the same OC more or less, that you had on your Apex XD. Your current OC ain't a bad daily by any stretch. That's already an upgrade. I believe the reason we're struggling on the Dark is that we're so used to dumb memory channel issues causing us to BSOD before we even get to memory testing, that now that we're on a board that feels like D4 again, we basically aren't used to having to mess with individual timings and worry about heat. 

It's almost as though D5 OCing on Asus was easy because super fast configs would just nor run at all even with y-cruncher or Linpack, and so your resultant OC was never maxed out, but the process of getting there seemed easier. Tuning on the Dark takes way more effort because you can be secondaries/tertiaries and small increments of voltage from stability.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> Well, look at it this way. 1.45V for the same OC more or less, that you had on your Apex XD. Your current OC ain't a bad daily by any stretch. That's already an upgrade. I believe the reason we're struggling on the Dark is that we're so used to dumb memory channel issues causing us to BSOD before we even get to memory testing, that now that we're on a board that feels like D4 again, we basically aren't used to having to mess with individual timings and worry about heat.
> 
> It's almost as though D5 OCing on Asus was easy because super fast configs would just nor run at all even with y-cruncher or Linpack, and so your resultant OC was never maxed out, but the process of getting there seemed easier. Tuning on the Dark takes way more effort because you can be secondaries/tertiaries and small increments of voltage from stability.


Never mind one sec. lol


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> View attachment 2572409
> 
> 
> 
> New BIOS less issues running 1t. Also less voltages like suggested.


I think this is the wrong screenshot. So you got 1T!?

Wait, I'm an idiot. Your first OC was on 1.04. I should've just told you to go to 1.15 lmao.


----------



## Gadfly

Word of caution on a-die; The lottery is still there.

I bought a binned kit from Splave as well; One of my sticks will pass 1 hour of TM5 anita extreme 7600 C34-45-45-30-2T at 1.425v, and the other stick won't pass the same profile even at 1.55v (This not a dig on Splave at all, he said the sticks would run Aida's memory bench at 7600 32-44-44-38 at 1.55v and they both do that.) My only point is to keep in mind just because it is A-Die does not mean there are not radical differences stick to stick with the OEM greens.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> I think this is the wrong screenshot. So you got 1T!?
> 
> Wait, I'm an idiot. Your first OC was on 1.04. I should've just told you to go to 1.15 lmao.



It's all good I messed up my post. Long story short here's 1t finally.

1.09 BIOS.


----------



## affxct

Gadfly said:


> Word of caution on a-die; The lottery is still there.
> 
> I bought a binned kit from Splave as well; One of my sticks will pass 1 hour of TM5 anita extreme 7600 C34-45-45-30-2T at 1.425v, and the other stick won't pass the same profile even at 1.55v (This not a dig on Splave at all, he said the sticks would run Aida's memory bench at 7600 32-44-44-38 at 1.55v and they both do that.) My only point is to keep in mind just because it is A-Die does not mean there are not radical differences stick to stick with the OEM greens.


This might sound like an odd question, but is your final 2x16 dual channel OC better with the stronger stick in the worse slot or the better slot? I've always been curious about this.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> It's all good I messed up my post. Long story short here's 1t finally.
> 
> View attachment 2572411


Ahh well done! One thing I will say is that with the Dark it seems like the IMC stress tests don't error the RAM like memory-focused tests. On Asus if you were memory unstable you'd be IMC unstable by default. I've run so many Linpacks with bad settings that I believe EVGA used sorcery to stabilize signal.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> Ahh well done! One thing I will say is that with the Dark it seems like the IMC stress tests don't error the RAM like memory-focused tests. On Asus if you were memory unstable you'd be IMC unstable by default. I've run so many Linpacks with bad settings that I believe EVGA used sorcery to stabilize signal.


I think it's their power delivery setup honestly. Look at the power delivered compared to Asus boards. It's strong and steady and reliable every time you bench it. The power delivered is steadier and more consistent.


----------



## affxct

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I think it's their power delivery setup honestly. Look at the power delivered compared to Asus boards. It's strong and steady and reliable every time you bench it. The power delivered is steadier and more consistent.


It's possible tbh. I've never thought about it that way though.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

affxct said:


> It's possible tbh. I've never thought about it that way though.


I pointed out early on that if I pumped more voltage into my asus setup CPU overclock that it scored higher across all test. Asus was letting it run on bare minimum voltage thus more voltage / wattage equaled a better score which was repeatable in my testing.

This EVGA board proves my original notion after noticing the abnormality with my apex mb. I'm pushing 90 more watts with this mb compared to my asus mb and scoring better than it ever did.

EVGA won my heart this time around as they did it right.


----------



## affxct

Do you guys think 150mV between VDD and VDDQ is a bad idea?


----------



## Gadfly

affxct said:


> This might sound like an odd question, but is your final 2x16 dual channel OC better with the stronger stick in the worse slot or the better slot? I've always been curious about this.


Doesn't seem to make any difference TBH; Mem errors are mem errors. The number of them doesn't really seem to change either way.

I am currently testing 1.56v Mem VDD; will see if it passes. I am kinda a loss to be honest with you.

Stick 1 passed first run at (So I likely can lower some of these voltages):

Mem VDD/VDDQ 1.425v/1.425v
CPU VDD2: 1.45v
CPU VDDQ TX: 1.4
VSA: 1.041 (+100 offset)

Second stick has not passed (Still testing to see if I can get it to pass at 7600 at all; thus far no dice):

Mem VDD: 1.4-1.55v
Mem VDDQ: 1.4v-1.55v
CPU VDD2: 1.4-1.55v
CPU VDDQ TX: 1.1-1.45v
VSA: 0.95v-1.25v


----------



## SoldierRBT

affxct said:


> Do you guys think 150mV between VDD and VDDQ is a bad idea?


I've been running 1.65/1.50v for the past 2 months without issues


----------



## affxct

SoldierRBT said:


> I've been running 1.65/1.50v for the past 2 months without issues
> 
> View attachment 2572414


Ight bet, that's such good news tbh


----------



## KedarWolf

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I pointed out early on that if I pumped more voltage into my asus setup CPU overclock that it scored higher across all test. Asus was letting it run on bare minimum voltage thus more voltage / wattage equaled a better score which was repeatable in my testing.
> 
> This EVGA board proves my original notion after noticing the abnormality with my apex mb. I'm pushing 90 more watts with this mb compared to my asus mb and scoring better than it ever did.
> 
> EVGA won my heart this time around as they did it right.


I follow this thread, cuz, reasons, but I ordered the EVGA X570 Dark for my 5950x, getting it Monday.

I'm pretty sure I won't get a 7950x on launch as scalpers will snatch them all to before I get paid, and I'm holding out for better two DIMM board options anyways.

I'm quite glad I went Team Red with my 5950x when I had always been an Intel fanboy.


----------



## Agent-A01

bscool said:


> How hard would it have been for him to show all timings for both DR and SR in Asrock, Memtweakit, Dragonball ect . Without seeing actual timings and rtls I take it with a grain of salt that he had all timings the same.


Off topic but do you have 64001T or 66001T timings + tests on your apex?
I just traded my Strix-A + B-die kit for a 2021 apex and 6400C32 Z5 kit.

Zero experience with DDR5 but here's what I got so far, tm5 and HCI stable.
66001T looks possible too.








\

Also, no CPU OC just stock for testing. VDDQ = 1.45 not 1.5

Edit: rip me. BIOS Version 2004 2022/09/16 is out now


----------



## bscool

Agent-A01 said:


> Off topic but do you have 64001T or 66001T timings + tests on your apex?
> I just traded my Strix-A + B-die kit for a 2021 apex and 6400C32 Z5 kit.
> 
> Zero experience with DDR5 but here's what I got so far, tm5 and HCI stable.
> 66001T looks possible too.
> 
> View attachment 2572429
> \
> 
> Also, no CPU OC just stock for testing. VDDQ = 1.45 not 1.5
> 
> Edit: rip me. BIOS Version 2004 2022/09/16 is out now


I dont have my Apex hooked up right now to find screenshots but I couldnt get past 6400 stable with 1t. I can run 7000c30 2t so that is what I have been running.

I havent tried the newest bios but from what I have tried some of the older ones were better. 1304 to 1701 were good for me.

1720 is bugged 

"Sorry
There are some issues with the new microcode that supports Raptor Lake
To fix this, have to wait for the intel new microcode
If you have any problems, please do a bios rollback
Thanks"









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Have you disabled the asus update in bios? if you use CCleaner you can uninstall asus update using that It's not asus update in this case. It's Microsoft Windows Update that's forcing this update. Asus just supplied the broken bios to MS.




www.overclock.net













*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


64GB DDR5 OC posted (32GB x 2) 6400 30-38-38-28-2T / VDD, VDDQ, TX 1.38v (120mm fan + EK Ram Cover) Some points he mentioned : Unlike 16G Module, 32G Module seems unstable at 1.5v+ : Unlike 16G Modue, 32G Module requires a lot higher MC. For 6400Mhz, MC 1.4v is needed to be stable ...




www.overclock.net













[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


@sbpantipodi, i dont experience any problems and i also have the Extreme on 2 stick by the way, i had problems with the corsair dominator ddr5, as far as i aware speed write true or false (default is true) is security feature that for cosair memory needs to be off becouse of RGB implementation...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> I follow this thread, cuz, reasons, but I ordered the EVGA X570 Dark for my 5950x, getting it Monday.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I won't get a 7950x on launch as scalpers will snatch them all to before I get paid, and I'm holding out for better two DIMM board options anyways.
> 
> I'm quite glad I went Team Red with my 5950x when I had always been an Intel fanboy.


I am the other way. After a 1700,1800x,1950X,3950x, and finally a 5950X; I ran away from AMD as quickly as possible as soon as the 12th gen came out.


----------



## QXE

Can anyone confirm if the new teamgroup kits are A die


----------



## Gadfly

QXE said:


> Can anyone confirm if the new teamgroup kits are A die


I am not sure. Last I heard there are no a-die kits out yet?


----------



## affxct

Gadfly said:


> Doesn't seem to make any difference TBH; Mem errors are mem errors. The number of them doesn't really seem to change either way.
> 
> I am currently testing 1.56v Mem VDD; will see if it passes. I am kinda a loss to be honest with you.
> 
> Stick 1 passed first run at (So I likely can lower some of these voltages):
> 
> Mem VDD/VDDQ 1.425v/1.425v
> CPU VDD2: 1.45v
> CPU VDDQ TX: 1.4
> VSA: 1.041 (+100 offset)
> 
> Second stick has not passed (Still testing to see if I can get it to pass at 7600 at all; thus far no dice):
> 
> Mem VDD: 1.4-1.55v
> Mem VDDQ: 1.4v-1.55v
> CPU VDD2: 1.4-1.55v
> CPU VDDQ TX: 1.1-1.45v
> VSA: 0.95v-1.25v


It might be that the second stick caps off at something like 7466 for daily use. That's a number I've observed for a few A-die daily's thus far. That definitely sucks though. I guess at least 7466 would still be well above most M-die.


----------



## MarkDeMark

Gadfly said:


> I am not sure. Last I heard there are no a-die kits out yet?


You can buy them on Ebay from China - not binned though. Still they're available









SK Hynix A-Die DDR5 5600Mhz PC5-5600B-UA0-1010-XT 32GB (2 x 16GB) PC RAM Memory | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SK Hynix A-Die DDR5 5600Mhz PC5-5600B-UA0-1010-XT 32GB (2 x 16GB) PC RAM Memory at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## affxct

I've been sitting here testing my board for the


MarkDeMark said:


> You can buy them on Ebay from China - not binned though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SK Hynix A-Die DDR5 5600Mhz PC5-5600B-UA0-1010-XT 32GB (2 x 16GB) PC RAM Memory | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SK Hynix A-Die DDR5 5600Mhz PC5-5600B-UA0-1010-XT 32GB (2 x 16GB) PC RAM Memory at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Holy moly $500.


----------



## sugi0lover

Finally, my DDR5 A-die Stable 8000 CL32 OC setup~
○ Ram : Hynix 5600 A-die DDR5 (16GB x 2)
○ Ram OC : 8000-32-45-45-30-470-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1720, old microcode patched)
○ Voltages (at load) : VDD&VDDQ 1.710 / TX 1.40(auto) / MC 1.40(auto) / SA 1.30(auto) / VPP 1.860
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)


Spoiler: 8000 CL32 Performance Test

















Spoiler: 8000 CL32 Stability Test


----------



## affxct

After around 7 hours of testing, I've finally managed 7000CR1. The process of stabilizing it was kinda unbelievable. In the end what was required was dropping SA from 1.25V to 1.0V. That was it. Other than VCCSA, my 1T vs 2T stable configs have the exact same values for everything else.


----------



## motivman

affxct said:


> View attachment 2572463
> 
> 
> After around 7 hours of testing, I've finally managed 7000CR1. The process of stabilizing it was kinda unbelievable. In the end what was required was dropping SA from 1.25V to 1.0V. That was it. Other than VCCSA, my 1T vs 2T stable configs have the exact same values for everything else.



Not so fast sir. Let's see it stable with TM5. I have passed a lot of tests in memtest pro, just to fail within 5 minutes in TM5....


----------



## affxct

motivman said:


> Not so fast sir. Let's see it stable with TM5. I have passed a lot of tests in memtest pro, just to fail within 5 minutes in TM5....


I've noticed the exact opposite effect with D5. I've had a few TM5 passes that would end up crashing out in-game. With HCI passes that generally never is the case. The only time I've ever had HCI passes crash out was back on 0811 Strix Z690-F when reboot instability was a legit thing and I would keep rebooting just to have my 6200 OCs destabilize. 









Unstable Progress


Folder



1drv.ms





This OneDrive profile has my two initial 7000 OCs that were both actually not stable. I'm not sure how or why, but perhaps testing just didn't occur for long enough. All I know is VDD requirements of HCI are substantially more hefty. You can get through a decent portion of TM5 without hitting an error even with outlandish settings. It might be reserved to Extreme1, I'm not sure if ABSOLUT and 1usmus Default are the same way. I've also never tested the Serj Default that my TM5 download has.


----------



## asdkj1740

TEAMGROUP KEVIN
Z790 HERO with 13900k
TEAMGROUP DELTA A DIE KIT, 7800MHZ 16G*2 CL36
DDR5 1.41V VDD & VDDQ, CPU TXVDDQ 1.4V, CPU IMC 1.37V, CPU SA 1.23V
RUNMEMTESTPRO 200% PASSED

so, four dimm mobo is good enough for almost everyone now....

ps. 13900k


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> TEAMGROUP KEVIN
> Z790 HERO with 13900k
> TEAMGROUP DELTA A DIE KIT, 7800MHZ 16G*2 CL36
> DDR5 1.41V VDD & VDDQ, CPU TXVDDQ 1.4V, CPU IMC 1.37V, CPU SA 1.23V
> RUNMEMTESTPRO 200% PASSED
> 
> so, four dimm mobo is good enough for almost everyone now....
> 
> ps. 13900k


I'm actually glad to see the 4-DIMM Z790s doing do well. Finally that argument about needing 2 DIMM slots for high data rate can take a hike.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> I'm actually glad to see the 4-DIMM Z790s doing do well. Finally that argument about needing 2 DIMM slots for high data rate can take a hike.


why alc4080 on z690 two dimm mobo when you can get alc4082 on four dimm hero lmao.
beside why not tb4/usb4 on board !


----------



## rulik006

MarkDeMark said:


> You can buy them on Ebay from China - not binned though. Still they're available
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SK Hynix A-Die DDR5 5600Mhz PC5-5600B-UA0-1010-XT 32GB (2 x 16GB) PC RAM Memory | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SK Hynix A-Die DDR5 5600Mhz PC5-5600B-UA0-1010-XT 32GB (2 x 16GB) PC RAM Memory at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


500$ Mega ripoff for goofs


----------



## affxct

rulik006 said:


> 500$ Mega ripoff for goofs


That's what I said. Like dang. It might be A-die, but it's completely OEM. I don't think SK Hynix sells/manufactures it for even close to 500.


----------



## LazyGamer

asdkj1740 said:


> why alc4080 on z690 two dimm mobo when you can get alc4082 on four dimm hero lmao.
> beside why not tb4/usb4 on board !


As I understand it, TB4 is still superior to USB4 - but only if you're trying to run say eGPUs or full docking stations and the like. I'm still undecided if TB4 is important over USB4.

It will be nice to see four-DIMM boards hitting 7000+ though, with two DIMMs installed.


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, my DDR5 A-die Stable 8000 CL32 OC setup~
> ○ Ram : Hynix 5600 A-die DDR5 (16GB x 2)
> ○ Ram OC : 8000-32-45-45-30-470-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 1720, old microcode patched)
> ○ Voltages (at load) : VDD&VDDQ 1.710 / TX 1.40(auto) / MC 1.40(auto) / SA 1.30(auto) / VPP 1.860
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 8000 CL32 Performance Test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572455
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 8000 CL32 Stability Test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572454


How is y cruncher with the A die? I dont rememeber seeing many post results, is harder to get stable at those high clocks for y cruncher?


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> How is y cruncher with the A die? I dont rememeber seeing many post results, is harder to get stable at those high clocks for y cruncher?


Not much difference from the setup below.
Working on new bios 2004 now.


sugi0lover said:


> testing my current stable setup 7800 CL32 (a-die)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 7800 CL32 Setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570963


----------



## asdkj1740

LazyGamer said:


> As I understand it, TB4 is still superior to USB4 - but only if you're trying to run say eGPUs or full docking stations and the like. I'm still undecided if TB4 is important over USB4.
> 
> It will be nice to see four-DIMM boards hitting 7000+ though, with two DIMMs installed.


usb4 is said to be gen4x4, asm4242. for that tb3 tb4 are away behind usb4.


----------



## LazyGamer

asdkj1740 said:


> usb4 is said to be gen4x4, asm4242. for that tb3 tb4 are away behind usb4.


I'm seeing USB4 having half the max full-duplex bandwidth of TB4, and having significantly lower minimum bandwidth and power delivery.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

asdkj1740 said:


> TEAMGROUP KEVIN
> Z790 HERO with 13900k
> TEAMGROUP DELTA A DIE KIT, 7800MHZ 16G*2 CL36
> DDR5 1.41V VDD & VDDQ, CPU TXVDDQ 1.4V, CPU IMC 1.37V, CPU SA 1.23V
> RUNMEMTESTPRO 200% PASSED
> 
> so, four dimm mobo is good enough for almost everyone now....
> 
> ps. 13900k



I'll give you cash money for the setup 🤣

This is what I'm working with after upgrading to the 1.09 BIOS. Now I can get 1t stable at 6800. I'm still tightening things and adjusting things. I turned down the voltage on the CPU and reran ycruncher again to stop the CPU from being throttled.




















Tweaked my subtimings some more. Almost into 58 second territory..


----------



## acoustic

Are there any reports of 6800 being IMC limited?

12700K
Unify-X
Kingston 6400 Renegade 2x16

I cannot for the life of me get 6800 stable. Auto timings, auto VDDQ/VDD2, up to 1.5v MC, different combinations of them all.. low SA, high SA, auto SA.. I've got 6600 32-40-40-32-450 stable with tight sub and tertiary at 1.40 VDIMM/VDD, 1.1v SA, 1.35v CPU VDDQ/1.36v CPU VDD.

Using Karhu for this. I either get an error at 7% (when the test begins putting a load), or error at 22-23%, or error in the ~80%. Temps are not an issue since it's not running long enough to get the sticks above 40c.

I may try swapping the sticks around in the board. I just don't understand how 6600 is stable with just about any combination of voltages, and 6800 could be so finicky! I haven't even tried 7000 yet.. couldn't get it to POST the couple times I tried.


----------



## satinghostrider

acoustic said:


> Are there any reports of 6800 being IMC limited?
> 
> 12700K
> Unify-X
> Kingston 6400 Renegade 2x16
> 
> I cannot for the life of me get 6800 stable. Auto timings, auto VDDQ/VDD2, up to 1.5v MC, different combinations of them all.. low SA, high SA, auto SA.. I've got 6600 32-40-40-32-450 stable with tight sub and tertiary at 1.40 VDIMM/VDD, 1.1v SA, 1.35v CPU VDDQ/1.36v CPU VDD.
> 
> Using Karhu for this. I either get an error at 7% (when the test begins putting a load), or error at 22-23%, or error in the ~80%. Temps are not an issue since it's not running long enough to get the sticks above 40c.
> 
> I may try swapping the sticks around in the board. I just don't understand how 6600 is stable with just about any combination of voltages, and 6800 could be so finicky! I haven't even tried 7000 yet.. couldn't get it to POST the couple times I tried.


I'm on SP84 and I can run 6800C32 stable for 7 months now with 0 crashes. I can boot 7400 on my 2022 Z690 Apex with my Kingston Fury Kit 6000C40 kit. Honestly, I think IMC varies from CPU to CPU. A high SP CPU need not necessarily have a better IMC and vice versa. If none of the above are your issues, then high chances are your sticks are the limitation.


----------



## acoustic

satinghostrider said:


> I'm on SP84 and I can run 6800C32 stable for 7 months now with 0 crashes. I can boot 7400 on my 2022 Z690 Apex with my Kingston Fury Kit 6000C40 kit. Honestly, I think IMC varies from CPU to CPU. A high SP CPU need not necessarily have a better IMC and vice versa. If none of the above are your issues, then high chances are your sticks are the limitation.


Yeah, definitely agree with the IMC portion. It's a 6400CL32 Fury Renegade kit. It's running 6600 @ 1.40v VDD/VDDQ with tight sub/tertiary. I can't see how Hynix M-Die can't scale above 1.40v for higher frequency, even with loose sub/tertiary


----------



## owikh84

acoustic said:


> Yeah, definitely agree with the IMC portion. It's a 6400CL32 Fury Renegade kit. It's running 6600 @ 1.40v VDD/VDDQ with tight sub/tertiary. I can't see how Hynix M-Die can't scale above 1.40v for higher frequency, even with loose sub/tertiary


Most probably the IMC being weak, I had a 12700K with max stable RAM OC up to 6666 C30 on Z690I UNIFY.
My 12900K and KS don't have any issue running up to 7000 stable with the same mobo and RAM.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


i'd say the best apex is best board, but average unify > average apex :) I can boot and bench up to 7200 on my unify itx fwiw, and can daily 7000c30.




www.overclock.net


----------



## acoustic

owikh84 said:


> Most probably the IMC being weak, I had a 12700K with max stable RAM OC up to 6666 C30 on Z690I UNIFY.
> My 12900K and KS don't have any issue running up to 7000 stable with the same mobo and RAM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> i'd say the best apex is best board, but average unify > average apex :) I can boot and bench up to 7200 on my unify itx fwiw, and can daily 7000c30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks! That's the kind of info I was looking for. The sporadic behavior reminds me much of what I experienced when OCing DDR4 on this chip. Beyond 3800GR1, it just would not behave.

When I say I've tried every combination of voltage.. I mean it 😂 it feels like I'm chasing a ghost.

Chalking it up to the IMC. We'll see how it goes when 13900K gets dropped in.


----------



## LazyGamer

acoustic said:


> Yeah, definitely agree with the IMC portion. It's a 6400CL32 Fury Renegade kit. It's running 6600 @ 1.40v VDD/VDDQ with tight sub/tertiary. I can't see how Hynix M-Die can't scale above 1.40v for higher frequency, even with loose sub/tertiary


12700K currently on a four-DIMM board, can't stabilize anything over 6200 - tried both SR and DR M-die as well as Samsung, all hit that ceiling. Well, DR seems to have trouble above 5600, which is what this specific kit is rated at.


----------



## acoustic

LazyGamer said:


> 12700K currently on a four-DIMM board, can't stabilize anything over 6200 - tried both SR and DR M-die as well as Samsung, all hit that ceiling. Well, DR seems to have trouble above 5600, which is what this specific kit is rated at.


I'd chalk that up to the board. I tried a MEG ACE and returned it.. couldn't run 6200 on that thing. I didn't give it a ton of time before the Unify-X showed up.

Good to see some 12700K users though. We are the peasants of IMCs.


----------



## QXE

Anyone willing to be the guinea pig for the teamgroup elite plus kit and see if it’s A die?


----------



## gecko991

Thinking about it.


----------



## Ketku-

What thermal pads guys using at DDR5 Waterblocks?

I use Thermal Grizzly or Arctics allways.


----------



## asdkj1740

rumor:
some gskill 6600 kits are a die.
6800 kits are coming, and they are all a die.

again, buying binned kit by memory vendors plus unlocked pmic guaranteed, may cost you much more than hynix a die 5600 kit.


----------



## energie80

6600 cl34 kit?


----------



## LazyGamer

acoustic said:


> I'd chalk that up to the board. I tried a MEG ACE and returned it.. couldn't run 6200 on that thing. I didn't give it a ton of time before the Unify-X showed up.
> 
> Good to see some 12700K users though. We are the peasants of IMCs.


Sure, but it's basically a Unify non-X with Thunderbolt and some gold bling. Figured it'd be about Hero class?


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> Sure, but it's basically a Unify non-X with Thunderbolt and some gold bling. Figured it'd be about Hero class?


Have you guys re-tested your MSI 4-DIMMers with the late June update?


----------



## affxct

It seems I have a bit of time dilation. It actually came out a bit after my birthday. I just remember the BIOS dropping around that period. Unfortunately this BIOS breaks ring OCing for obvious reasons, but this is supposed to be the one that allows 6400 and - I presume - 6667.


----------



## affxct

QXE said:


> Anyone willing to be the guinea pig for the teamgroup elite plus kit and see if it’s A die?


I'm guessing the only potential A-die would be the 2x32?


----------



## LazyGamer

All of my recent testing has been on the latest July 7 (160) BIOS.


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> All of my recent testing has been on the latest July 7 (160) BIOS.


I'm guessing that'd be the same one as the version I linked for the Carbon. Damn, that's very strange. A few Carbon and Force owners mentioned that their 6400 G.Skill kits were finally stable.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> I'm guessing that'd be the same one as the version I linked for the Carbon. Damn, that's very strange. A few Carbon and Force owners mentioned that their 6400 G.Skill kits were finally stable.


I tested the ACE with the latest July release as well. I'm not saying it's a bad board, but it just seems like most 4-DIMM don't play nice. I was having to dramatically increase VDD/VDDQ voltages just to get stability at 6200. XMP was 1.35v, and I was at 1.43v for raw XMP. Who knows if that was stable either.. never finished testing stability on it as the Unify-X showed up.


----------



## ChaosAD

acoustic said:


> Are there any reports of 6800 being IMC limited?
> 
> 12700K
> Unify-X
> Kingston 6400 Renegade 2x16
> 
> I cannot for the life of me get 6800 stable. Auto timings, auto VDDQ/VDD2, up to 1.5v MC, different combinations of them all.. low SA, high SA, auto SA.. I've got 6600 32-40-40-32-450 stable with tight sub and tertiary at 1.40 VDIMM/VDD, 1.1v SA, 1.35v CPU VDDQ/1.36v CPU VDD.
> 
> Using Karhu for this. I either get an error at 7% (when the test begins putting a load), or error at 22-23%, or error in the ~80%. Temps are not an issue since it's not running long enough to get the sticks above 40c.
> 
> I may try swapping the sticks around in the board. I just don't understand how 6600 is stable with just about any combination of voltages, and 6800 could be so finicky! I haven't even tried 7000 yet.. couldn't get it to POST the couple times I tried.


I also thought I was IMC limited till yesterday. Had some free time and managed to stabilise 6800 32-40-40-28 2T 340 65535 all other auto for now. Vdd 1.5/vddq 1.45/SA 1.25/MC 1.35/TX 1.41 if I remember correctly, I'm at work now. Max temp after 25m TM5 with 120mm fan to blow dimms was 49.5c/48.5c


----------



## LazyGamer

acoustic said:


> I tested the ACE with the latest July release as well. I'm not saying it's a bad board, but it just seems like most 4-DIMM don't play nice. I was having to dramatically increase VDD/VDDQ voltages just to get stability at 6200. XMP was 1.35v, and I was at 1.43v for raw XMP. Who knows if that was stable either.. never finished testing stability on it as the Unify-X showed up.


I have a Corsair Dominator Platinum 6200C36 kit that is stable at 6200, and I can tighten the timings down pretty tight. 6400? Nope. Not looser timings, not higher voltage - nada. Still posts at 6600, not sure I even bothered trying to go higher.


----------



## acoustic

ChaosAD said:


> I also thought I was IMC limited till yesterday. Had some free time and managed to stabilise 6800 32-40-40-28 2T 340 65535 all other auto for now. Vdd 1.5/vddq 1.45/SA 1.25/MC 1.35/TX 1.41 if I remember correctly, I'm at work now. Max temp after 25m TM5 with 120mm fan to blow dimms was 49.5c/48.5c


I had one set of settings go to 173% Karhu. Made changes, got worse.. went back to those settings, and it failed at 23% 😂

It's so sporadic and just seems exactly like how it behaved when the DDR4 IMC didn't want to go above 3800.


----------



## warbucks

QXE said:


> Anyone willing to be the guinea pig for the teamgroup elite plus kit and see if it’s A die?


I'm willing to grab two of them and see if it's A-die. This is the kit you're talking about, correct?






Are you a human?







www.newegg.ca


----------



## rulik006

affxct said:


> Have you guys re-tested your MSI 4-DIMMers with the late June update?


Z690 force 6400 max stable 1.25 VDD2


----------



## acoustic

Went back to tightening 6600 even more, and couldn't get some errors to stop.

Swapped my sticks.. seeing better stability, but I have a feeling it's still going to error. If this worked, I'll try 6800 again. I could have sworn I swapped DIMM positions with the Unify-X, but it might have been on the MEG ACE and the TeamGroup kit I was originally using.


----------



## eruditeswine

affxct said:


> View attachment 2572583
> 
> 
> It seems I have a bit of time dilation. It actually came out a bit after my birthday. I just remember the BIOS dropping around that period. Unfortunately this BIOS breaks ring OCing for obvious reasons, but this is supposed to be the one that allows 6400 and - I presume - 6667.


Hello! Could you kindly elaborate on how the 7D30v17 BIOS breaks ring overclocking and what are the reasons? Thank you.



rulik006 said:


> Z690 force 6400 max stable 1.25 VDD2


Hello! Could you kindly share the configuration for it? Voltages, timings, validations and quirks? Thank you.


----------



## acoustic

eruditeswine said:


> Hello! Could you kindly elaborate on how the 7D30v17 BIOS breaks ring overclocking and what are the reasons? Thank you.


The Intel Microcode (UCODE) update had a bug in it, which locked CPU Cache/Ring overclocking.


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> The Intel Microcode (UCODE) update had a bug in it, which locked CPU Cache/Ring overclocking.


question.... does the latest bios for the unify x (7D28vA6) have that ring bus bug too? Im at a locked 44x ring with no issues


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> question.... does the latest bios for the unify x (7D28vA6) have that ring bus bug too? Im at a locked 44x ring with no issues


Not sure. I never ran it. I went straight to the A.72U3 BIOS. I don't remember hearing reports of people having issues with it..


----------



## eruditeswine

acoustic said:


> The Intel Microcode (UCODE) update had a bug in it, which locked CPU Cache/Ring overclocking.


Hi and thank you for the prompt reply.

So I will have to choose between ring overclocking or potential higher memory overclocking?

How and where did you come across this information and could you kindly point me to it?

If I would like to continue ring overclock, which BIOS version should I flash to?

Again, thank you so much!


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Anyone here know about removing rgb heatspreaders? I ordered the bitspower ram block set.

BP-RAMS22-D5 (bitspower.com)

I have the TFORCE 6400 RGB memory kit. I've been searching the internet and I'm not having luck unfortunately finding anything related to removing rgb heatsinks.


----------



## Nelfhunt

acoustic said:


> Are there any reports of 6800 being IMC limited?
> 
> 12700K
> Unify-X
> Kingston 6400 Renegade 2x16
> 
> I cannot for the life of me get 6800 stable. Auto timings, auto VDDQ/VDD2, up to 1.5v MC, different combinations of them all.. low SA, high SA, auto SA.. I've got 6600 32-40-40-32-450 stable with tight sub and tertiary at 1.40 VDIMM/VDD, 1.1v SA, 1.35v CPU VDDQ/1.36v CPU VDD.
> 
> Using Karhu for this. I either get an error at 7% (when the test begins putting a load), or error at 22-23%, or error in the ~80%. Temps are not an issue since it's not running long enough to get the sticks above 40c.
> 
> I may try swapping the sticks around in the board. I just don't understand how 6600 is stable with just about any combination of voltages, and 6800 could be so finicky! I haven't even tried 7000 yet.. couldn't get it to POST the couple times I tried.


12700 in general don´t have any IMC limitation. 
You can see my 12700KF @6933
It´s all silicon lottery, nothing else.


----------



## tubs2x4

You shouldn’t be at cpu limitation until you kinda get to that 8000 speeds not? That would be like 4000 gear one?
Seeing some of the few posting with a-die at 8000 speeds are now using sa volts of 1.3 and imc 1.4. Seems like that’s getting to the end. Anything below likely motherboard or ram itself.. no?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

On a side note. I'm pushing 6933MHz now and this is what I'm getting so far.










58 seconds!


----------



## yzonker

acoustic said:


> Went back to tightening 6600 even more, and couldn't get some errors to stop.
> 
> Swapped my sticks.. seeing better stability, but I have a feeling it's still going to error. If this worked, I'll try 6800 again. I could have sworn I swapped DIMM positions with the Unify-X, but it might have been on the MEG ACE and the TeamGroup kit I was originally using.


I wouldn't give up just yet. I had pretty much the same experience you have been describing in the last few posts only to finally get 7000 1t working.

CPU VDDQ/VDD2: Auto (1.4/1.485)
SA: 0.95v (thanks @affxct for posting your 1v result, going to 0.95v helped mine even more and got 1t working for me)
VDD/VDDQ: 1.5/1.45v

General question to everyone: Is Karhu considered equivalent to TM5? I ran Karhu this time as TM5 kept stalling out on the 2nd cycle. I've had it do that before, but this time restarting it a couple of times didn't work. Just kept stalling. Not sure if that's an indication of a problem or just a bug?


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> The Intel Microcode (UCODE) update had a bug in it, which locked CPU Cache/Ring overclocking.


disable that under voltage protection thing in bios.


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE GB3 MEMORY TEST
DDR5-7600/7733/7800/8000MHZ
I don't know why the memory scores are about the same haha...
BIOS: 2004u15


Spoiler: GB3 TEST


----------



## bscool

sulalin said:


> ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE GB3 MEMORY TEST
> DDR5-7600/7733/7800/8000MHZ
> I don't know why the memory scores are about the same haha...
> BIOS: 2004u15
> 
> 
> Spoiler: GB3 TEST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572628
> View attachment 2572629
> View attachment 2572630
> View attachment 2572631
> View attachment 2572632


What about y cruncher? that is where I saw the biggest gains.

This is on low bin 12900k and AIO bscool`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 52sec 419ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)









bscool`s y-cruncher - Pi-25m score: 0sec 275ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5400MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-25m benchmark. bscoolranks #2 worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org













bscool`s y-cruncher - Pi-1b score: 18sec 387ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5400MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-1b benchmark. bscoolranks #null worldwide and #32 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## sulalin

bscool，發布：29032421，成員：571521 said:


> 你的嘎吱嘎吱呢？那是我看到最大收穫的地方。
> 
> 這是在低檔 12900k 和 AIO bscool 的 y-cruncher 上 - Pi-2.5b 得分：52 秒 419 毫秒，Core i9 12900K (8P)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bscool`s y-cruncher - Pi-25m score: 0sec 275ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)
> 
> 
> The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5400MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-25m benchmark. bscoolranks #2 worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/引用ok~ wait and try


----------



## Falkentyne

warbucks said:


> I'm willing to grab two of them and see if it's A-die. This is the kit you're talking about, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


Yes, try it and report your results. I'm definitely not spending money I can't afford on anything right now.


----------



## affxct

eruditeswine said:


> Hello! Could you kindly elaborate on how the 7D30v17 BIOS breaks ring overclocking and what are the reasons? Thank you.
> 
> 
> Hello! Could you kindly share the configuration for it? Voltages, timings, validations and quirks? Thank you.


The RPL microcode basically causes your ring to be locked with every board vendor's update.


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> I wouldn't give up just yet. I had pretty much the same experience you have been describing in the last few posts only to finally get 7000 1t working.
> 
> CPU VDDQ/VDD2: Auto (1.4/1.485)
> SA: 0.95v (thanks @affxct for posting your 1v result, going to 0.95v helped mine even more and got 1t working for me)
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.5/1.45v
> 
> General question to everyone: Is Karhu considered equivalent to TM5? I ran Karhu this time as TM5 kept stalling out on the 2nd cycle. I've had it do that before, but this time restarting it a couple of times didn't work. Just kept stalling. Not sure if that's an indication of a problem or just a bug?
> 
> View attachment 2572619
> View attachment 2572620


It confuses me to no end. I don't understand how decreasing SA is what enables 1T. I've heard about decreasing Transmitter VDDQ, but SA... I'm glad it worked for you as well though, at least I know my hours of testing contributed to something.


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> It confuses me to no end. I don't understand how decreasing SA is what enables 1T. I've heard about decreasing Transmitter VDDQ, but SA... I'm glad it worked for you as well though, at least I know my hours of testing contributed to something.


I had tried it a long time ago I think (seems like that was one of your suggested ranges), but it didn't seem to improve anything IIRC. Probably works now due to many other changes I've made since then.

But yes, normally going down in voltage on something like that doesn't improve stability. But DDR5 OC'ing seems to just be black magic (more than normal). You just see everyone all over the map in regards to voltages, timings, etc... DDR4 b-die seemed a lot more consistent on my Ryzen system. With a good b-die kit, I could generally copy other people's settings and at least be close.


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> I had tried it a long time ago I think (seems like that was one of your suggested ranges), but it didn't seem to improve anything IIRC. Probably works now due to many other changes I've made since then.
> 
> But yes, normally going down in voltage on something like that doesn't improve stability. But DDR5 OC'ing seems to just be black magic (more than normal). You just see everyone all over the map in regards to voltages, timings, etc... DDR4 b-die seemed a lot more consistent on my Ryzen system. With a good b-die kit, I could generally copy other people's settings and at least be close.


I personally can't run high VDDQ on my kit. It likes to stay around 90-105mV away from VDD. Literally so weird.


----------



## sulalin

acoustic said:


> 有6800被IMC限制的報導嗎？
> 
> 12700K
> 統一-X
> 金士頓 6400 叛徒 2x16
> 
> 我不能為我的生活獲得 6800 穩定。自動計時，自動 VDDQ/VDD2，最高 1.5v MC，它們的不同組合.. 低 SA，高 SA，自動 SA.. 我有 6600 32-40-40-32-450 穩定的緊子和第三級為 1.40 VDIMM/VDD、1.1v SA、1.35v CPU VDDQ/1.36v CPU VDD。
> 
> 為此使用 Karhu。我要么在 7% 處出錯（當測試開始加載時），要么在 22-23% 處出錯，或者在 ~80% 處出錯。溫度不是問題，因為它運行的時間不夠長，無法使棒子超過 40c。
> 
> 我可以嘗試在板上交換木棍。我只是不明白 6600 在任何電壓組合下如何穩定，而 6800 可能如此挑剔！我什至還沒有嘗試過 7000 .. 我嘗試了幾次都無法發布。
> [/引用]
> 這是z690 unify-X的正常表現。這是正常的。你不受imc限制，但你受主板限制！


----------



## sulalin

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge，發布：29032298，成員：669355 said:


> 這裡有誰知道去除rgb散熱器嗎？我訂購了 bitspower ram 塊組。
> 
> BP-RAMS22-D5 (bitspower.com )
> 
> 我有 TFORCE 6400 RGB 內存套件。我一直在搜索互聯網，不幸的是我沒有找到任何與移除 rgb 散熱器有關的東西。
> [/引用]Use this to remove your heat sink.


----------



## rulik006

eruditeswine said:


> Hello! Could you kindly share the configuration for it? Voltages, timings, validations and quirks? Thank you.


Green Hynix M + loose timings for testing 34-42-42-54 rest auto. Was not stable at 6600.
VDD1.42
VDDQ 1.35
VDD2 1.25v
VDDQ TX Auto


----------



## rulik006

Who will show anything good with Samsung? like* sulalin *did
Because Hynix become very boring and predictable


----------



## acoustic

sulalin said:


> xx


but i see plenty of people with Unify-X hitting 6800+ with no issues. I haven't seen many reports of 2-DIMM not being able to hit 6800.


----------



## affxct

rulik006 said:


> Who will show anything good with Samsung? like* sulalin *did
> Because Hynix become very boring and predictable
> View attachment 2572660


S16B IC variance is kinda scary. Some OCs will easily do 6400 36-36-36 at 1.4-1.45V and some won't even do it at 1.55V. I've seen high results and low results and it's all over the place. I kinda think S16B best be avoided if I'm completely honest.


----------



## QXE

warbucks said:


> I'm willing to grab two of them and see if it's A-die. This is the kit you're talking about, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


Yes


----------



## acoustic

@yzonker

Making progress. Flashed to new MSI Beta BIOS.. got to almost 350% before an error.

CPU SA: 0.940 (0.950 actual), CPU VDDQ: 1.5v, CPU VDD2: AUTO (1.40v),
DRAM VDD: 1.45, DRAM VDDQ: 1.40v

Going to stick to messing with DRAM VDD/VDDQ first.. but this is the farthest I've ever gotten.

Edit:

Gone through for the past ~2hr trying all combinations again. Found a setting that went to 560%.. decided to try something, and simply reboot back to Windows and try again.

Failed at 7%.

I think I have a limitation somewhere, and no BIOS or voltage is going to fix that. I'm genuinely out of different numbers to mess with.


----------



## warbucks

QXE said:


> Yes


Ordered two sticks. Should be here in the next few days. I'll report back once I've tested/checked them.


----------



## gecko991

Noice.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

warbucks said:


> Ordered two sticks. Should be here in the next few days. I'll report back once I've tested/checked them.


Save $42 if you buy the white version. I'm looking at these too.

EDIT, got the black version


----------



## Talon2016

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Save $42 if you buy the white version. I'm looking at these too.
> 
> EDIT, got the black version


Are we sure these are A-Die?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Talon2016 said:


> Are we sure these are A-Die?


Not sure, the timings for the speed hint they are. Just hoping.

Can return if not A-Die anyways.


----------



## eruditeswine

asdkj1740 said:


> disable that under voltage protection thing in bios.


Hello, is it the "CPU Over Voltage Protection" under "DigitALL Power"?

What does it do? How does it resolve the locked Ring? Thank you.



affxct said:


> The RPL microcode basically causes your ring to be locked with every board vendor's update.


Hello! I see. Where did you come across this information and could you kindly point me to it?

As I await asdkj1740's solution for locked Ring, it seems I may have to choose between Ring overclocking or potential higher memory overclocking.

While I'm excited, I'll continue to temper expectation as I've only seen proper 6400 overclock on Asus 4DIMMers.

If I would like to continue ring overclock, which BIOS version should I flash to?





MPG Z690 CARBON WIFI


MPG series motherboards offer colorful customization with MSI Mystic Light RGB and Ambient Link, tuned for better performance by direct 18 phases VRM power, DDR5 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen5 solution, Premium Thermal Solution, Wi-Fi 6E, USB 3.




www.msi.com





Again, thank you!



rulik006 said:


> Green Hynix M + loose timings for testing 34-42-42-54 rest auto. Was not stable at 6600.
> VDD1.42
> VDDQ 1.35
> VDD2 1.25v
> VDDQ TX Auto


Hello and thank you!

Was VCCSA on auto too? Did you have to adjust PLLs?

I will fumble around before settling on 62 or 6400.

Have a splendid week folks.


----------



## yzonker

acoustic said:


> @yzonker
> 
> Making progress. Flashed to new MSI Beta BIOS.. got to almost 350% before an error.
> 
> CPU SA: 0.940 (0.950 actual), CPU VDDQ: 1.5v, CPU VDD2: AUTO (1.40v),
> DRAM VDD: 1.45, DRAM VDDQ: 1.40v
> 
> Going to stick to messing with DRAM VDD/VDDQ first.. but this is the farthest I've ever gotten.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Gone through for the past ~2hr trying all combinations again. Found a setting that went to 560%.. decided to try something, and simply reboot back to Windows and try again.
> 
> Failed at 7%.
> 
> I think I have a limitation somewhere, and no BIOS or voltage is going to fix that. I'm genuinely out of different numbers to mess with.


Try increasing trfcpb. Setting it to 500 got me a lot closer to getting 7000 stable. Might increase tras too. Not sure where you are at now.


----------



## owikh84

acoustic said:


> @yzonker
> 
> Making progress. Flashed to new MSI Beta BIOS.. got to almost 350% before an error.
> 
> CPU SA: 0.940 (0.950 actual), CPU VDDQ: 1.5v, CPU VDD2: AUTO (1.40v),
> DRAM VDD: 1.45, DRAM VDDQ: 1.40v
> 
> Going to stick to messing with DRAM VDD/VDDQ first.. but this is the farthest I've ever gotten.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Gone through for the past ~2hr trying all combinations again. Found a setting that went to 560%.. decided to try something, and simply reboot back to Windows and try again.
> 
> Failed at 7%.
> 
> I think I have a limitation somewhere, and no BIOS or voltage is going to fix that. I'm genuinely out of different numbers to mess with.


From my experience, Karhu requires more SA and/or CPU VDD2.

For instance, TM5 I was able to stablize my 7000c32 with SA 0.95v, CPU VDD2 1.4v. But Karhu somehow requires SA 1.15v, CPU VDD2 1.45v.

However, TM5 is more consistent in finding timing errors. Karhu is more on voltages. In my Karhu setting, CPU cache is set to enabled, if that matters.


----------



## affxct

eruditeswine said:


> Hello, is it the "CPU Over Voltage Protection" under "DigitALL Power"?
> 
> What does it do? How does it resolve the locked Ring? Thank you.
> 
> 
> Hello! I see. Where did you come across this information and could you kindly point me to it?
> 
> As I await asdkj1740's solution for locked Ring, it seems I may have to choose between Ring overclocking or potential higher memory overclocking.
> 
> While I'm excited, I'll continue to temper expectation as I've only seen proper 6400 overclock on Asus 4DIMMers.
> 
> If I would like to continue ring overclock, which BIOS version should I flash to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MPG Z690 CARBON WIFI
> 
> 
> MPG series motherboards offer colorful customization with MSI Mystic Light RGB and Ambient Link, tuned for better performance by direct 18 phases VRM power, DDR5 memory with Memory Boost, Lightning Gen5 solution, Premium Thermal Solution, Wi-Fi 6E, USB 3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, thank you!
> 
> 
> Hello and thank you!
> 
> Was VCCSA on auto too? Did you have to adjust PLLs?
> 
> I will fumble around before settling on 62 or 6400.
> 
> Have a splendid week folks.


It's not really that I came across it, more so that Asus forced 1720 on us via Windows and if you don't mod it with ucode 15 and re-flash, then original version that Windows installs causes your ring to lock. Subsequently myself and a few others on here agreed that this was a legitimate issue, and it turned out that it was the same for other vendors.


----------



## DanGleeballs

acoustic said:


> @yzonker
> 
> Making progress. Flashed to new MSI Beta BIOS.. got to almost 350% before an error.
> 
> CPU SA: 0.940 (0.950 actual), CPU VDDQ: 1.5v, CPU VDD2: AUTO (1.40v),
> DRAM VDD: 1.45, DRAM VDDQ: 1.40v
> 
> Going to stick to messing with DRAM VDD/VDDQ first.. but this is the farthest I've ever gotten.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Gone through for the past ~2hr trying all combinations again. Found a setting that went to 560%.. decided to try something, and simply reboot back to Windows and try again.
> 
> Failed at 7%.
> 
> I think I have a limitation somewhere, and no BIOS or voltage is going to fix that. I'm genuinely out of different numbers to mess with.


You may need a little more DRAM VDD/Q for 6800. I need 1.48/1.46 plus a small bump to VPP.
Here's a pic of my settings on Unify-X and 6200 C36 Corsair Dominators.
Also try with DIMM DFE Training enable and disabled.








Edit. I need a shut down and unplug to make SA and VDDQ stick


----------



## warbucks

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Save $42 if you buy the white version. I'm looking at these too.
> 
> EDIT, got the black version


Nice. Fingers crossed it's what we're looking for.


----------



## affxct

I don't wanna sound like a broken record, but the fact that Dark owners don't have to adjust memory fast boot/DFE or any sort of training procedures, is freakin' unreal. It's so weird that the BIOS is so streamlined and that everything just works. I don't think I'll purchase a different board ever again. MSI and ASRock are the only competition IMO, but their BIOSs are far harder to configure as well. Maybe it sounds like I'm hyping up EVGA, but the Dark really is that good. Just an unreal experience.


----------



## SuperMumrik

affxct said:


> I don't wanna sound like a broken record, but the fact that Dark owners don't have to adjust memory fast boot/DFE or any sort of training procedures, is freakin' unreal.


To be fair. I have not done any of this on my Apex for 6 months either


----------



## sulalin

rulik006，帖子：29031799，成員：457124 said:


> 500 美元的超級騙局
> [/引用]
> 
> 這是全新的解鎖電壓版16G*2=1500元


----------



## affxct

SuperMumrik said:


> To be fair. I have not done any of this on my Apex for 6 months either


I mean, look, the Apex _can_ be a good board, but like 70% of samples were awful. There were an order of magnitude more people who had, and that are still having, a terrible time with it, compared to the handful of people running insane settings.

Asus screwed up this time and there's no way to scurry around that fact. This would be akin to someone saying "I got 7400MT/s at 1.6V on my M-die, who needs A-die," and I say that with the utmost respect for you. In no way am I saying that it's bad that you got a good sample or wish you any ill. It's just the fact of the matter.

Maximus Z690 boards are in no way a safe consideration, especially not when the Unify-X can be readily purchased at $460 and the Dark seems to have found a new home at the $500 mark also.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Never touched fast boot or had boot to boot instabilities either with Unify-X 
Can't do 1t passed 6600 though😔
What will happen now EVGA not making GPUs anymore.


----------



## affxct

DanGleeballs said:


> Never touched fast boot or had boot to boot instabilities either with Unify-X
> Can't do 1t passed 6600 though😔
> What will happen now EVGA not making GPUs anymore.


Unify-X is also a great board, the Dark at $500 and with the seamless BIOS still takes the cake though. I mean, everything about the board screams perfection. Even the PCB layout and the board design.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> I mean, look, the Apex _can_ be a good board, but like 70% of samples were awful. There was order of magnitude more people who had and are having a terrible time with it than the handful of people running insane settings. Asus screwed up this time and there's no way to scurry around that fact. This would be akin to someone saying "I got 7400MT/s at 1.6V on my M-die, who needs A-die," and I say that with the utmost respect for you. In no way am I saying that it's bad that you got a good sample or wish you any ill. It's just the fact of the matter.


Do you visit the EVGA z690 forum? I see plenty of people having issues with both Dark and Classified. I think there are bad and good MB from any of the manufactures.



https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-Z690-Series-f123.aspx



With that said I would buy Dark if I had to buy something right now.


----------



## SuperMumrik

affxct said:


> I mean, look, the Apex _can_ be a good board, but like 70% of samples were awful.


I'm not denying that there are some bad boards in the wild. I'm just stating that a working board is a working board in every aspect (regardless of vendor) =)


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> Do you visit the EVGA z690 forum? I see plenty of people having issues with both Dark and Classified. I think there are bad and good MB from any of the manufactures.
> 
> 
> 
> https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-Z690-Series-f123.aspx


What sort of issues are they having with the Dark? I can't really sift through it all, but I haven't really ever frequented it. This is the third EVGA product I've owned and the last two were GPUs, one of which I only owned for around a month and the other I owned 6 years ago. I'm not really a massive EVGA fan, but the Dark kinda swung me and it's been exactly like 'in the pictures' so to speak.


----------



## affxct

SuperMumrik said:


> I'm not denying that there are some bad boards in the wild. I'm just stating that a working board is a working board in every aspect (regardless of vendor) =)


It's a lottery, that's all. There are very few people who are able to purchase multiple samples until they hit a serviceable one.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> What sort of issues are they having with the Dark? I can't really sift through it all, but I haven't really ever frequented it. This is the third EVGA product I've owned and the last two were GPUs, one of which I only owned for around a month and the other I owned 6 years ago. I'm not really a massive EVGA fan, but the Dark kinda swung me and it's been exactly like 'in the pictures' so to speak.


I dont rememeber every post and issue. But they are there and people have them on both Dark and Classified. I edtied my post after, I would buy Dark if I had to buy now. Was just saying all manufactures have issues from what I have seen.


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> I dont rememeber every post and issue. But they are there and people have them on both Dark and Classified. I edtied my post after, I would buy Dark if I had to buy now. Was just saying all manufactures have issues from what I have seen.


No joke, I searched Z690 Dark issues and the only blatant one I came across is similar to the one experienced by someone on here where the one DIMM slot seems to be dead/causing POST errors. The other issue I came across was a dude having random reboots, but that can almost certainly be chalked up to memory stability (had the same sorts of issues with all my Asus samples and my Taichi).

Here's the thing, right. If someone emails Amazon and says "my DIMM slot be dead," or "this board is just causing random restarts," an RMA/refund would be literally issued within days without any further elaboration or real need for troubleshooting. With most Apexs you don't get DOAs, but you end up wasting hundreds of hours just to have to either ditch it on a classifieds forum, or beg Asus/Amazon for a refund.

Unify-X probably is the most reliable board though, not gonna lie. It seems to have the least weaknesses. I hope all those dudes experiencing dead Dark KP DIMM slots ended up fine though.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> No joke, I searched Z690 Dark issues and the only blatant one I came across is similar to the one experienced by someone on here where the one DIMM slot seems to be dead/causing POST errors. The other issue I came across was a dude having random reboots, but that can almost certainly be chalked up to memory stability (had the same sorts of issues with all my Asus samples and my Taichi).
> 
> Here's the thing, right. If someone emails Amazon and says "my DIMM slot be dead," or "this board is just causing random restarts," an RMA/refund would be literally issued within days without any further elaboration or real need for troubleshooting. With most Apexs you don't get DOAs, but you end up wasting hundreds of hours just to have to either ditch it on a classifieds forum, or beg Asus/Amazon for a refund.
> 
> Unify-X probably is the most reliable board though, not gonna lie. It seems to have the least weaknesses. I hope all those dudes experiencing dead Dark KP DIMM slots ended up fine though.


I am not going to go thru every post to find dark user issues. They are mixed in with various other threads but here is one example.

I usually dont reply because it turns into a back forth and I really dont care buy what you want.

https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3574598

"I'm still having issues...

After almost 2 months with this motherboard and spending time on the forums, internet search, Discord, etc... I've come to the conclusion that something is wrong with this board or bios.

The primary problem since the newest BIOS 1.14 is that *NOTHING I change for the CPU in terms of voltage, under or over, OC Robot, ANY OC whatsoever, nets a code 71*. OC Robot actually worked before the BIOS update. I have pulled the waterblock (Heatkiller V Pro) adjusted the contact frame several times, etc. and *nothing works at all unless the CPU is at FULL AUTO*. I can't even change the voltage to adaptive and leave it there in the BIOS.

I thought that by buying the KP board I would have the ability to set a respectable OC in the BIOS as I have for all of my rigs."


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> I am not going to go thru every post to find dark user issues. They are mixed in with various other threads but here is one example.
> 
> I usually dont reply because it turns into a back forth and I really dont care buy what you want.
> 
> https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3574598
> 
> "
> I'm still having issues...
> 
> 
> After almost 2 months with this motherboard and spending time on the forums, internet search, Discord, etc... I've come to the conclusion that something is wrong with this board or bios.
> 
> The primary problem since the newest BIOS 1.14 is that *NOTHING I change for the CPU in terms of voltage, under or over, OC Robot, ANY OC whatsoever, nets a code 71*. OC Robot actually worked before the BIOS update. I have pulled the waterblock (Heatkiller V Pro) adjusted the contact frame several times, etc. and *nothing works at all unless the CPU is at FULL AUTO*. I can't even change the voltage to adaptive and leave it there in the BIOS."


This one is kinda interesting, again though, would you not call this a quick and easy RMA? I'd just have taken a video and been like "hey board is defective, money back please," and I wouldn't have even given it a second thought. I wouldn't even have been mad af EVGA, this is akin to a DOA. 

All the issues I've come across with the Dark are as clear as RMAing a dead RAM kit or that time an H150i I owned through up that red flashing pump failure bug. These are all easy RMAs that shouldn't take more than a couple of days to process.


----------



## bscool

affxct said:


> This one is kinda interesting, again though, would you not call this a quick and easy RMA? I'd just have taken a video and been like "hey board is defective, money back please," and I wouldn't have even given it a second though. All the issues I've come across with the Dark are as clear as RMAing a dead RAM kit or that time an H150i I owned through up that red flashing pump failure bug. These are all easy RMAs that shouldn't take more than a couple of days to process.


My point about how I said it never ends, keep going back and forth 🤣


----------



## affxct

bscool said:


> My point about how I said it never ends, keep going back and forth 🤣


I dunno. I say this with all due respect, but all those threads are non-issues. PC parts are like any other worldly objects. I've had to RMA a lot more than just the odd PC part. That's apart of manufacturing. When there's an obvious defect it should take the user no time to fill out a quick RMA application and move on with life - that's the difference.

I will concede that if a user needs their PC for important work and downtime isn't an option - Unify-X. In no universe is there an argument for going Asus, surely I don't have to explain why. This isn't the Maximus Z690 thread so hopefully it's a bit more welcoming to pointing out the obvious struggle Maximus boards cause.

It all lies in the fact that trying to explain to support staff that your board 'should do X speed' and that's your reason for RMA, is infinitely harder than just sliding them a one-liner claiming that you got sent a physically defective product.


----------



## gambit07

Hi all, wondering if anyone can tell me whether my expectations are off or if I perhaps have underperforming ram/mb. I've got a Asus z690 Maximus Formula paired with 4 16gb sticks of Corsair Dominator Platinum rated at 6200mhz cl36. Using two sticks everything is fine in xmp, but if I use all 4 sticks I am having a hell of a time getting 6200 stable at xmp. Stress testing in memtest and aida have both had clear passes at various settings, but when I retest I'll get a failure. Within windows I'm not noticing any real mem related issues, but was hoping to get everything fully stable as this is a build for a friend. Any thoughts or advice? Currently the most stable config I've found is running at 6000mhz with vdd and vddq voltage dropped to 1.26v from 1.3v stock, but it still isn't 100% stable in stress tests. Anything I've tried with vdd and vddq voltages over 1.3v has not been stable. Any other voltages I should be taking a look at or are my expectations for getting 4 sticks completely stable at xmp rated speeds unrealistic?


----------



## tubs2x4

gambit07 said:


> Hi all, wondering if anyone can tell me whether my expectations are off or if I perhaps have underperforming ram/mb. I've got a Asus z690 Maximus Formula paired with 4 16gb sticks of Corsair Dominator Platinum rated at 6200mhz cl36. Using two sticks everything is fine in xmp, but if I use all 4 sticks I am having a hell of a time getting 6200 stable at xmp. Stress testing in memtest and aida have both had clear passes at various settings, but when I retest I'll get a failure. Within windows I'm not noticing any real mem related issues, but was hoping to get everything fully stable as this is a build for a friend. Any thoughts or advice? Currently the most stable config I've found is running at 6000mhz with vdd and vddq voltage dropped to 1.26v from 1.3v stock, but it still isn't 100% stable in stress tests. Anything I've tried with vdd and vddq voltages over 1.3v has not been stable. Any other voltages I should be taking a look at or are my expectations for getting 4 sticks completely stable at xmp rated speeds unrealistic?


That might be a problem. I would return the sticks and get 2x32gb. Be better offf. It’s possible to get 4x16 to work but not at 6200 likely. Could maybe try like 40-40-40-86 timings manually at 6200 and see if it works at 6200 at 1.4 volts see what happens.


----------



## tubs2x4

Your SA and mem controller voltage at auto?


----------



## gambit07

tubs2x4 said:


> Your SA and mem controller voltage at auto?


Yep that's correct, haven't done much memory tuning in the past, last time I really dove into it was on an old 6700k build so a lot of options have changed or changed names as well. Any recommendations on those?


----------



## tubs2x4

gambit07 said:


> Hi all, wondering if anyone can tell me whether my expectations are off or if I perhaps have underperforming ram/mb. I've got a Asus z690 Maximus Formula paired with 4 16gb sticks of Corsair Dominator Platinum rated at 6200mhz cl36. Using two sticks everything is fine in xmp, but if I use all 4 sticks I am having a hell of a time getting 6200 stable at xmp. Stress testing in memtest and aida have both had clear passes at various settings, but when I retest I'll get a failure. Within windows I'm not noticing any real mem related issues, but was hoping to get everything fully stable as this is a build for a friend. Any thoughts or advice? Currently the most stable config I've found is running at 6000mhz with vdd and vddq voltage dropped to 1.26v from 1.3v stock, but it still isn't 100% stable in stress tests. Anything I've tried with vdd and vddq voltages over 1.3v has not been stable. Any other voltages I should be taking a look at or are my expectations for getting 4 sticks completely stable at xmp rated speeds unrealistic?


Check this vid out and see if it helps you.


----------



## gambit07

tubs2x4 said:


> That might be a problem. I would return the sticks and get 2x32gb. Be better offf. It’s possible to get 4x16 to work but not at 6200 likely. Could maybe try like 40-40-40-86 timings manually at 6200 and see if it works at 6200 at 1.4 volts see what happens.


Appreciate the recommendation, I'd personally go to 2x32 but my friend likes the look of 4 sticks so trying to get that working for him. Haven't really messed with timings yet so maybe I'll try that next


----------



## tubs2x4

gambit07 said:


> Appreciate the recommendation, I'd personally go to 2x32 but my friend likes the look of 4 sticks so trying to get that working for him. Haven't really messed with timings yet so maybe I'll try that next


That vid uses same board and mem as you. So maybe those settings in vid will help you out.


----------



## Gadfly

SuperMumrik said:


> To be fair. I have not done any of this on my Apex for 6 months either


They are just completely different boards; they work so much differently from each other. 

With my Apex, there was some serious strangeness in the way that SA, CPU VDD2, and CPU VDDQ TX worked when it came to memory. On the Apex, Running 7000C30 1T was just not possible, running 7000C32 2T required 1.2v+ SA, and the VDDQ TX (What Asus calls MC), which an internal CPU voltage rail, has to be the same or higher than Mem VDDQ; which is absolutely nuts. So to get 1.55v/1.55v on your memory to get higher memory clocks/tighter timings you have to pump stupid high voltages into your CPU; at 1.5v+ I honestly am expecting to start seeing a whole bunch of IMC's failing after a year on Asus boards; I have seen some people stuffing 1.55v or even 1.6V down VDDQ TX on ambient CPU's; which, to me at least, is absolute madness. Anyway, For VDD2; it doesn't really scale with voltage, you have to hunt around looking for a "sweet spot" that changes based on what all the other voltages were set at.; it was very weird. I spent a lot of time fiddling with VDD2 and VDDQ TX just to find stability on even "Mild" 6600 1T overclocks. My apex wouldn't run the second channel over 6600 stable, so that was really as high as I could push that board. 

On the Dark KP; To run 7000C30 1T, SA was run stock (0.950V), VDD2 was 1.4v, and VDDQ TX 1.25v with memory at 1.55/1.53v on air; and it was easy to dial in voltages as everything behaved in a predictable manner, and just about everything scales with voltage. They just work differently, I have no idea why or how. To be honest, I like my Dark KP more than I liked my Apex; Which hurts a little as I have always been a giant Asus/ROG fanboy; having run only ROG boards for the past 15 years+. My only ***** about the Dark KP, is that the Asus Toolbox that could be used inside the OS was fantastic; and was beyond useful; EVGA's in OS tools are... very limited to say the least. Here is hoping that EVGA pours their heart and soul into the Motherboard division now they will not be making GPU's anymore; with a little more in terms of resources and development I think they could easily take over the enthusiast market.


----------



## Gadfly

affxct said:


> It's a lottery, that's all. There are very few people who are able to purchase multiple samples until they hit a serviceable one.


The issue with the Apex is that a very large majority of the boards were defective, in that the second slot couldn't function over 6600 and was unstable. I have no idea if they fixed them or not, but Asus ended up buying mine back from me as they had no replacement boards in inventory. It 4 took months, but eventually I got my money back. So kudos on Asus for standing behind their warranty.


----------



## affxct

Gadfly said:


> The issue with the Apex is that a very large majority of the boards were defective, in that the second slot couldn't function over 6600 and was unstable. I have no idea if they fixed them or not, but Asus ended up buying mine back from me as they had no replacement boards in inventory. It 4 took months, but eventually I got my money back. So kudos on Asus for standing behind their warranty.


I don't want to tick anyone off, but my opinions are strong on that one... Very very strong. It's in-part due to where I live and how warranties generally work here, but also just sheer astonishment that it took that long for them to pay you back man. It's just insane. I guess in a way it makes sense because the board wasn't obviously defective and it was kinda up to them whether they wanted to take it back or not.


----------



## gambit07

tubs2x4 said:


> That vid uses same board and mem as you. So maybe those settings in vid will help you out.


Running a stress test with his settings now lol, my mem isn't exactly the same but very close, technically the dominator plat sticks should be a little better afaik


----------



## SuperMumrik

Gadfly said:


> With my Apex, there was some serious strangeness in the way that SA, CPU VDD2, and CPU VDDQ TX worked when it came to memory. On the Apex, Running 7000C30 1T was just not possible, running 7000C32 2T required 1.2v+ SA, and the VDDQ TX (What Asus calls MC), which an internal CPU voltage rail, has to be the same or higher than Mem VDDQ; which is absolutely nuts.


Yeah, that's not expected behavior.
I need 0.950SA and 1.35MC for 7k c30 tight (not the best IMC around). My Apex can't do 1T at those speeds, but there seems to very limited gains from Dark's 1T anyway .


----------



## affxct

SuperMumrik said:


> Yeah, that's not expected behavior.
> I need 0.950SA and 1.35MC for 7k c30 tight (not the best IMC around). My Apex can't do 1T at those speeds, but there seems to very limited gains from Dark's 1T anyway .


0.95 up to 1.35 SA is not really that big a matter. VDD2 for the most part is also a rather arbitrary rail to worry about. I think he mainly has issue with TX VDDQ. I don't know enough about TX limits to comment on that one.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Are there any reports of 6800 being IMC limited?
> 
> 12700K
> Unify-X
> Kingston 6400 Renegade 2x16
> 
> I cannot for the life of me get 6800 stable. Auto timings, auto VDDQ/VDD2, up to 1.5v MC, different combinations of them all.. low SA, high SA, auto SA.. I've got 6600 32-40-40-32-450 stable with tight sub and tertiary at 1.40 VDIMM/VDD, 1.1v SA, 1.35v CPU VDDQ/1.36v CPU VDD.
> 
> Using Karhu for this. I either get an error at 7% (when the test begins putting a load), or error at 22-23%, or error in the ~80%. Temps are not an issue since it's not running long enough to get the sticks above 40c.
> 
> I may try swapping the sticks around in the board. I just don't understand how 6600 is stable with just about any combination of voltages, and 6800 could be so finicky! I haven't even tried 7000 yet.. couldn't get it to POST the couple times I tried.


I got my kingston Renegades stable at 6868 cl32 on my Unify X, but with i9 12900k


----------



## z390e

Gadfly said:


> To be honest, I like my Dark KP more than I liked my Apex; Which hurts a little as I have always been a giant Asus/ROG fanboy; having run only ROG boards for the past 15 years+. My only *** about the Dark KP, is that the Asus Toolbox that could be used inside the OS was fantastic; and was beyond useful; EVGA's in OS tools are... very limited to say the least.


Not an Apex owner but want to 100% agree with everything else you said here. Hopefully ASUS grabs K|NGP|N and has Vince help with their HEDT or other high end boards now that he has left EVGA, because I really really love the Z690 Dark.


----------



## don1376

newls1 said:


> question.... does the latest bios for the unify x (7D28vA6) have that ring bus bug too? Im at a locked 44x ring with no issues


Ring bus works fine on that bios. It's one I'm currently using with 42 ring ratio.


----------



## acoustic

DanGleeballs said:


> You may need a little more DRAM VDD/Q for 6800. I need 1.48/1.46 plus a small bump to VPP.
> Here's a pic of my settings on Unify-X and 6200 C36 Corsair Dominators.
> Also try with DIMM DFE Training enable and disabled.
> View attachment 2572703
> 
> Edit. I need a shut down and unplug to make SA and VDDQ stick


Thanks for sharing. Going to try your settings. I was up to 1.48 DIMM voltage and 1.45v VDDQ last night and still wasn't getting anywhere. Again, seems exactly how this chip acted when pushing the DDR4 IMC beyond what it was comfy with. I'd have slight stability for MAYBE that first boot, then the next boot it's an immediate error-fest.

What's DIMM DFE training do? Going to try with it enabled. Typically I keep RTL training enabled and DIMM SPD Alias check disabled, rest auto.

I'm going to try even looser timings on this attempt. 38-46-46-46.. all sub and tertiary on auto. tRFC and tRFCpb are 543/441 respectively .. letting the board decide that.

edit: Got to 667% before error. Same settings as yours.. but that's the longest I've gone. Going to keep it and try again but with DIMM DFE disabled this time.

edit2: DIMM DFE disabled results in failed training. Gets to 55 and then cycles, ends up w/ mem OC fail after 2 attempts.

Interesting ..

edit3: I am now unable to get anywhere near 667% again. Same settings that went to 667% now fail at 7% (as soon as test begins). I'm currently trying CPU VDDQ/VDD2 on Auto with 1.48v VDIMM and 1.46v DRAM VDDQ. VPP set to 1.830v.

I have the timings at 38-48-48-52 now. tRFC auto(543) and tRFCpb manually set to 520, since someone mentioned tRFC+pb above 500 can help stability.

These timings are so insanely loose compared to what I run 6600 @ 1.40v DRAM VDD/VDDQ that it just doesn't make sense to me. DDR5 is black magic voodoo ****.


----------



## Gadfly

SuperMumrik said:


> Yeah, that's not expected behavior.
> I need 0.950SA and 1.35MC for 7k c30 tight (not the best IMC around). My Apex can't do 1T at those speeds, but there seems to very limited gains from Dark's 1T anyway .


What you mean? The requirement to run MC at or higher than VDDQ is in in Asus's own documentation.


----------



## tubs2x4

gambit07 said:


> Running a stress test with his settings now lol, my mem isn't exactly the same but very close, technically the dominator plat sticks should be a little better afaik


Report back on what you find.


----------



## Gadfly

z390e said:


> Not an Apex owner but want to 100% agree with everything else you said here. Hopefully ASUS grabs K|NGP|N and has Vince help with their HEDT or other high end boards now that he has left EVGA, because I really really love the Z690 Dark.


Did he leave entirely?


----------



## z390e

His FB says "Former EVGA employee"


----------



## gambit07

tubs2x4 said:


> Check this vid out and see if it helps you.


Thanks again for this, used his settings and everything seems stable. Tried 6200 with the same settings but it was a no go, think I'm just gunna stick with the 6000 and let my friend know it's actually performing better than stock due to the tighter timings.


----------



## tubs2x4

gambit07 said:


> Thanks again for this, used his settings and everything seems stable. Tried 6200 with the same settings but it was a no go, think I'm just gunna stick with the 6000 and let my friend know it's actually performing better than stock due to the tighter timings.


Good stuff. Glad it worked out for you.


----------



## acoustic

@DanGleeballs @yzonker

Thoughts? Error @ 1170%.. here's current settings when it happened ..

Losing my patience. I highly doubt it's temp related.. hottest stick was 47c. The 63.8c is just a HWINFO bug. Randomly does that


----------



## Nelfhunt

acoustic said:


> @DanGleeballs @yzonker
> 
> Thoughts? Error @ 1170%.. here's current settings when it happened ..
> 
> Losing my patience. I highly doubt it's temp related.. hottest stick was 47c. The 63.8c is just a HWINFO bug. Randomly does that


Try different BIOS. For me 172U2 works best, but I am on unify ITX, idk how the unify-x has optimized BIOS for M dies. Anyway your voltages for TX and IMC are unnecessary high, 1.4V should be fine for both. About DRAM VDD/Q, mine forks flawlessly at 1.45V/1.4V @6800C32.
Or maybe you just lost silicon lottery.


----------



## acoustic

Nelfhunt said:


> Try different BIOS. For me 172U2 works best, but I am on unify ITX, idk how the unify-x has optimized BIOS for M dies. Anyway your voltages for TX and IMC are unnecessary high, 1.4V should be fine for both. About DRAM VDD/Q, mine forks flawlessly at 1.45V/1.4V @6800C32.
> Or maybe you just lost silicon lottery.


I thought those voltages were high too, but I went from 802% error to 1170% error when I went from CPU VDDQ (aka VDDQ TX) @ 1.4v to 1.5v. Not horribly surprised, as I needed 1.45-1.50v for DDR4 Gear1 @ 3800.

I'm now trying CPU VDD2 @ 1.38v (auto was setting it to 1.40v) and currently at 460% without error. We'll see if it goes further or not. This is the first time I've been able to consistently go 2-3 reboots and get into triple digit percentage.. usually it works once and then fails at 7-22% next boot LOL.


----------



## acoustic

Currently at 1380% and still going .. only change from the 1170% run was CPU VDD2 from 1.40v to 1.38v.

l o l


----------



## DanGleeballs

acoustic said:


> I thought those voltages were high too, but I went from 802% error to 1170% error when I went from CPU VDDQ (aka VDDQ TX) @ 1.4v to 1.5v. Not horribly surprised, as I needed 1.45-1.50v for DDR4 Gear1 @ 3800.
> 
> I'm now trying CPU VDD2 @ 1.38v (auto was setting it to 1.40v) and currently at 460% without error. We'll see if it goes further or not. This is the first time I've been able to consistently go 2-3 reboots and get into triple digit percentage.. usually it works once and then fails at 7-22% next boot LOL.


VDD2 has a sweet spot. For me 1.34 for 6800 with VDDQ not too far away.
Using A6 official bios with no problems. Not tried the newer beta


----------



## acoustic

DanGleeballs said:


> VDD2 has a sweet spot. For me 1.34 for 6800 with VDDQ not too far away.
> Using A6 official bios with no problems. Not tried the newer beta


Why is it that 6600 with super tight timings will take a wide array of voltages, but add 200Mhz to the frequency, and even with super loose timings, suddenly you need voltages down to .005v perfection? LOL. It's insanity.

Still going. Curious to see if it will error.. temps on the sticks are good - I ramped my side exhaust fans a little and it dropped my RAM temps ~2c from my last setup. I think my VDDQ TX is part of the equation too; this chip liked 1.50v for DDR4 OCing, but I didn't think what it wanted for DDR4 would be relevant at all for DDR5..

OK- error at 1874%. Going to drop VDD2 a little further to 1.370v and see what happens..

edit- 1.370v VDD2 failed at 11% LOL.. back to 1.380v we go.


----------



## DanGleeballs

acoustic said:


> Why is it that 6600 with super tight timings will take a wide array of voltages, but add 200Mhz to the frequency, and even with super loose timings, suddenly you need voltages down to .005v perfection? LOL. It's insanity.
> 
> Still going. Curious to see if it will error.. temps on the sticks are good - I ramped my side exhaust fans a little and it dropped my RAM temps ~2c from my last setup. I think my VDDQ TX is part of the equation too; this chip liked 1.50v for DDR4 OCing, but I didn't think what it wanted for DDR4 would be relevant at all for DDR5..
> 
> OK- error at 1874%. Going to drop VDD2 a little further to 1.370v and see what happens..
> 
> edit- 1.370v VDD2 failed at 11% LOL.. back to 1.380v we go.


As you get nearer to the edge the tolerances get smaller. Maybe worth a shot of going lower with VDDQ to get them a bit closer.


----------



## acoustic

DanGleeballs said:


> As you get nearer to the edge the tolerances get smaller. Maybe worth a shot of going lower with VDDQ to get them a bit closer.


I'm currently testing that. 1.45v VDDQ TX resulted in error at 205%, so I'm now at 1.41v, which just error'd at 60%.

Yikes 😂

I know VDDQ TX is on the FIVR rail, and it shouldn't have any issue going to 1.55v. As far as I know, there's no reason to be worried about higher voltage as the FIVR rail won't be hurt.. but that was info from early in 12th gen life.


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> @DanGleeballs @yzonker
> 
> Thoughts? Error @ 1170%.. here's current settings when it happened ..
> 
> Losing my patience. I highly doubt it's temp related.. hottest stick was 47c. The 63.8c is just a HWINFO bug. Randomly does that


are you taking the advice from above where dude said pull cord, and full reset for certain voltages to actually apply themselves. My Unify X is the exact same way. Vddq/SA/ and CPU Vcore wont change what I set in bios until I pull PSU plug and fully drain power from board, then power up, and my voltage settings are now applied. super damn strange I know, and only board in my life ive had to do this, but its the way this board is. so maybe you think your voltage has applied that y ouve changed for memory, but it hasent cause you didnt fully drain power from board yet. see what im saying?


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> are you taking the advice from above where dude said pull cord, and full reset for certain voltages to actually apply themselves. My Unify X is the exact same way. Vddq/SA/ and CPU Vcore wont change what I set in bios until I pull PSU plug and fully drain power from board, then power up, and my voltage settings are now applied. super damn strange I know, and only board in my life ive had to do this, but its the way this board is. so maybe you think your voltage has applied that y ouve changed for memory, but it hasent cause you didnt fully drain power from board yet. see what im saying?


I can see the voltages are changing via HWINFO, and in BIOS. I don't seem to have this issue as far as I can tell.


----------



## yzonker

acoustic said:


> @DanGleeballs @yzonker
> 
> Thoughts? Error @ 1170%.. here's current settings when it happened ..
> 
> Losing my patience. I highly doubt it's temp related.. hottest stick was 47c. The 63.8c is just a HWINFO bug. Randomly does that


Yea, dunno. Those are crazy lose timings. This is going to sound stupid probably, but have you tried 7000? On mine, I saw times where 7000 was stable enough to at least load Windows, but if I dropped to 6800 with no other changes, it wouldn't post! Did I mention DDR5 OC'ing is a PITA?


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I'm currently testing that. 1.45v VDDQ TX resulted in error at 205%, so I'm now at 1.41v, which just error'd at 60%.
> 
> Yikes 😂
> 
> I know VDDQ TX is on the FIVR rail, and it shouldn't have any issue going to 1.55v. As far as I know, there's no reason to be worried about higher voltage as the FIVR rail won't be hurt.. but that was info from early in 12th gen life.


Perhaps true, but the Transmitter (I think) is the main IMC construct and we don't yet know what the long term limit is. With that said, I've run TX up to 1.5V for a few weeks as well. I'm down at 1.4 now that I'm on the Dark and I do think it for the better tbh.


----------



## Ghoosti

Hello,
My Extreme cannot exceed 6000 , I decided to keep it for a while longer….
I try to decrease the timings, for the moment I am on 6000 @ 30-37-37-42 1T
I am a novice, what timing would you advise me to improve?
Thanks for your help and advice


----------



## tibcsi0407

Ghoosti said:


> Hello,
> My Extreme cannot exceed 6000 , I decided to keep it for a while longer….
> I try to decrease the timings, for the moment I am on 6000 @ 30-37-37-42 1T
> I am a novice, what timing would you advise me to improve?
> Thanks for your help and advice


Could you show your voltages? IMC, TX, DRAM VDD/VDDQ, SA?


----------



## Nizzen

tibcsi0407 said:


> Could you show your voltages? IMC, TX, DRAM VDD/VDDQ, SA?


And all timings and temps


----------



## Ghoosti

6000 @ 30-37-37-42 1T
SA = 1.250
VDD = 1.40
VDDQ = 1.30
IVR = AUTO
IMC = AUTO
the other timings on auto


----------



## DanGleeballs

newls1 said:


> are you taking the advice from above where dude said pull cord, and full reset for certain voltages to actually apply themselves. My Unify X is the exact same way. Vddq/SA/ and CPU Vcore wont change what I set in bios until I pull PSU plug and fully drain power from board, then power up, and my voltage settings are now applied. super damn strange I know, and only board in my life ive had to do this, but its the way this board is. so maybe you think your voltage has applied that y ouve changed for memory, but it hasent cause you didnt fully drain power from board yet. see what im saying?


Think it's something to do with how LLC is set up because everytime I change SA I have to reset CPU lite load from auto back to mode 4


----------



## Raphie

So... at this moment in time, what are the best commercially available A Die's that do 8K @ 1.2v?
I want to upgrade from my Gskills, but want a significant speed increase over 6800, lower power than 1.45v and much better temps. Do I really have to wait till Xmas, or is there anything out there yet?

Want to go faster @ lower voltage (currently tuned for 1.45v)


----------



## energie80

i want a ferrari, for free


----------



## Raphie

Money is no object, Just want to see what's the bleeding edge out there.


----------



## energie80

no commerciali a die atm, maibe new teamgroup


----------



## acoustic

yzonker said:


> Yea, dunno. Those are crazy lose timings. This is going to sound stupid probably, but have you tried 7000? On mine, I saw times where 7000 was stable enough to at least load Windows, but if I dropped to 6800 with no other changes, it wouldn't post! Did I mention DDR5 OC'ing is a PITA?


Hah. Funny enough, with the settings that get me to ~1880% in Karhu @ 6800, I can now post and boot into Windows at 7000! The bad? Entire system freaking out + pausing and eventually a Security_Kernel BSOD .. lol. Leads me to believe it's CPU or mobo related.

Still trying for 6800 right now..


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Hah. Funny enough, with the settings that get me to ~1880% in Karhu @ 6800, I can now post and boot into Windows at 7000! The bad? Entire system freaking out + pausing and eventually a Security_Kernel BSOD .. lol. Leads me to believe it's CPU or mobo related.
> 
> Still trying for 6800 right now..


I managed to get 6933 cl32, 40,40,28 stable last night on that newest beta bios .72. With fairly tight timings. Got to do some more testing today,but so far no errors.
Or maybe it was 6833, whatever the 133 multiplier gives you before over 7000. Not at home to look. Think it's 6933.


----------



## acoustic

Nice. 32-40-40-28 is pretty solid for 6933 for a 24/7 setup. There's a new BETA out, A.75, which is what I'm using now. I find it slightly better than the A.72U3 I was using before.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Nice. 32-40-40-28 is pretty solid for 6933 for a 24/7 setup. There's a new BETA out, A.75, which is what I'm using now. I find it slightly better than the A.72U3 I was using before.


Maybe it was .75, the most recent one posted some post up. I downloaded both betas and installed the newer one.


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> Maybe it was .75, the most recent one posted some post up. I downloaded both betas and installed the newer one.


yeah it's likely A.75.

The settings that went 1880%, now failed at 166%.

Gotta be board or CPU related.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Ghoosti said:


> 6000 @ 30-37-37-42 1T
> SA = 1.250
> VDD = 1.40
> VDDQ = 1.30
> IVR = AUTO
> IMC = AUTO
> the other timings on auto


I would decrease the SA to 1 V
VDD 1,45V
VDDQ 1,45V
IVR is the TX? That should be around 1.42V
IMC maybe you can leave auto on ASUS.
You should set the CR to 2 first and stabilise it on 6200 I believe.


----------



## ChaosAD

don1376 said:


> Maybe it was .75, the most recent one posted some post up. I downloaded both betas and installed the newer one.


The newest one i see here is 185, no? Have u tried this or just A75?


----------



## acoustic

Gave up on 6800.

Went to 133 strap, and 6666 boots up literally no problem. 6933 does not play nice, was erroring faster than 6800. I'm convinced it's a limitation of the board or the chip. We might find out if it's the board when the 13900K comes out.. considering grabbing it on release.

Going to try for 6666 1T with the timings tightened up nice. 6666 testing easy at 1.425 VDIMM/1.40v DRAM VDDQ lol.


----------



## don1376

ChaosAD said:


> The newest one i see here is 185, no? Have u tried this or just A75?


Honestly I don't recall if it's A75 or 185. Have to check when get home. I want to say it was the newest one in folder 185 but not positive. Now that I went back in look in folder I downloaded 2nd one in the list so that would be 185.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Gave up on 6800.
> 
> Went to 133 strap, and 6666 boots up literally no problem. 6933 does not play nice, was erroring faster than 6800. I'm convinced it's a limitation of the board or the chip. We might find out if it's the board when the 13900K comes out.. considering grabbing it on release.
> 
> Going to try for 6666 1T with the timings tightened up nice. 6666 testing easy at 1.425 VDIMM/1.40v DRAM VDDQ lol.


Yea maybe chip because my 12900k trained fast and booted right up with same tight timings at 6933. I just had to turn my SA down to 1.15 from 1.25 and unlink my mem power and run 1.55 mem vdd and 1.45 mem vddq. Need to run stress test for longer but haven't received any errors in one's I did run like TM5 and OCCT and no game crashes.


----------



## Ghoosti

tibcsi0407 said:


> Je diminuerais le SA à 1 V
> VDD 1,45V
> VDDQ 1,45V
> IVR est le TX ? Cela devrait être autour de 1.42V
> IMC peut-être que vous pouvez laisser auto sur ASUS.
> Vous devriez d'abord régler le CR sur 2 et le stabiliser sur 6200 je crois.
> [/DEVIS]


I just tried, I have error 4 in Memtest (bios) in 40-40-40-77


----------



## Raphie

acoustic said:


> Gave up on 6800.
> 
> Went to 133 strap, and 6666 boots up literally no problem. 6933 does not play nice, was erroring faster than 6800. I'm convinced it's a limitation of the board or the chip. We might find out if it's the board when the 13900K comes out.. considering grabbing it on release.
> 
> Going to try for 6666 1T with the timings tightened up nice. 6666 testing easy at 1.425 VDIMM/1.40v DRAM VDDQ lol.


Try my settings above, you're on Gskill 32/6400 too right? BIOS 6 here


----------



## acoustic

Raphie said:


> Try my settings above, you're on Gskill 32/6400 too right? BIOS 6 here


Hynix M-Die


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> Yea maybe chip because my 12900k trained fast and booted right up with same tight timings at 6933. I just had to turn my SA down to 1.15 from 1.25 and unlink my mem power and run 1.55 mem vdd and 1.45 mem vddq. Need to run stress test for longer but haven't received any errors in one's I did run like TM5 and OCCT and no game crashes.


you mind sharing the bios you are on please sir?


----------



## Gadfly

Finally got it stable: 7600C34 2T 1.42/1.44v


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Gadfly said:


> Finally got it stable: 7600C34 2T 1.42/1.44v
> 
> View attachment 2572857



I seem to have a good motherboard here too. I want those sticks you have.


----------



## don1376

newls1 said:


> you mind sharing the bios you are on please sir?


I'm on bios A75. Just got home to check for sure.


----------



## Gadfly

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I seem to have a good motherboard here too. I want those sticks you have.


Soon they will be everywhere and dirt cheap. They are just OEM sticks


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Gadfly said:


> Soon they will be everywhere and dirt cheap. They are just OEM sticks



What I'm playing with now on my tforce 6400 hynix. I'm going to move up to 7000 shortly. Getting this tweaked as possible first and saving it as a profile.










How do I change tRFCPB on this board?


----------



## Gadfly

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> What I'm playing with now on my tforce 6400 hynix. I'm going to move up to 7000 shortly. Getting this tweaked as possible first and saving it as a profile.
> 
> View attachment 2572869
> 
> 
> How do I change tRFCPB on this board?
> 
> View attachment 2572871


bios 1.15 adds trfcpb; and improves 1T performance


----------



## Nizzen

Gadfly said:


> Soon they will be everywhere and dirt cheap. They are just OEM sticks


Just? They tend to be atleast as good as g.skill, team , kingston, corsair etc... Just look at the dell dimms from day 1. 4800mhz green dell, and many do 7000+


----------



## Talon2016

Testing the TeamGroup Elite 5600 1.1v sticks. Grabbed them on Amazon for easy return. Unfortunately can't tell what they are other than SK Hynix from SPD.


----------



## 673714

energie80 said:


> Hello, I bought some g gskill 6400….is there any way to cool them down correctly? Like replacing the thermal pads? Thanks





LilOliVert said:


> They should work fine as is for 6400MHz or lower if your motherboard and CPU can support it. For higher frequencies they'll do better naked, or naked with fans, or water cooled. In that order from least to most cool.


Sorry, I have to take back what I said. I was going off of what someone else said to me at the time. I have since done many tests and confirmed that these G.Skill do eventually become unstable due to heat, as is, right out of the box.

For the longest time it seemed I found stability slightly underclocking the Trident Z5 kit to 6200MHz, but that's the interesting part I'll get to later.

I decided a few days ago to give 6400 another try, and to my utter shock and disbelief I got y-cruncher to finish by pumping the power up to 1.45v on the VDD, VDDQ and IVR. I tried playing some games like Grand Theft Auto 5 and Forza Horizon 5, and all seemed great for several hours. Then while GTA5 was on around 6 hours later, the entire system crashed and rebooted. I ran HWinfo and kept an eye on SPD hub temperature while gaming after that. When the temps got higher, I noticed some FPS stutter and decided to close the game and run Y-cruncher while the ram was still hot. Sure enough, immediate fail!

I left the system on, did not change anything at all other than no more games running. I did very little with the PC, just allowed the memory to cool down a bit before starting Y-cruncher again. So once the temp was around 46c, it passed again. I don't know how it could be any more obvious than that.

So that interesting part I said I'd get back to later? I dropped the frequency back down to 6200, which seemed rock solid for weeks before, and played GTA5 for several hours, only this time I noticed some small FPS stutter and that made me want to go run Y-cruncher to see if it was actually getting too hot even at 6200MHz. The answer is yes, it failed around the 53% mark. SMH

So today I called the number I found for G.Skill support and explained to the guy exactly what was happening (it's like "heat soak" in automotive terminology) and how it was because they had no thermal pads in the area of the SPD hub and PMIC. I made sure he knew this failure was infinitely repeatable following these steps. Explained that I don't want to RMA these if they're not going to put a thermal pad in there, and don't want my warranty voided if I do it myself. He said he would let the appropriate people know, find out more information, and so I'm going to call back in a week or so to see what they want to do about it.

I am considering buying a 40mm noctua to point at them in the meantime 

Update: I did get a 40mm noctua and that helped me determine 1 of my ram sticks are bad.


----------



## z390e

energie80 said:


> no commerciali a die atm, maibe new teamgroup


pretty sure A-die is out there, I have seen people on HWbot discussing.


----------



## Talon2016

Ya, unfortunately do not think these TeamGroups are A-Die. 7000 CL32 is erroring out at 1.47v VDD/1.4vddq.

These things do something weird when they error out I see a huge temp spike to 47-48 from around 35. Kinda a shame, I was hoping for something good here.


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> I'm on bios A75. Just got home to check for sure.


where do i find this?


----------



## newls1

LilOliVert said:


> Sorry, I have to take back what I said. I was going off of what someone else said to me at the time. I have since done many tests and confirmed that these G.Skill do eventually become unstable due to heat, as is, right out of the box.
> 
> For the longest time it seemed I found stability slightly underclocking the Trident Z5 kit to 6200MHz, but that's the interesting part I'll get to later.
> 
> I decided a few days ago to give 6400 another try, and to my utter shock and disbelief I got y-cruncher to finish by pumping the power up to 1.45v on the VDD, VDDQ and IVR. I tried playing some games like Grand Theft Auto 5 and Forza Horizon 5, and all seemed great for several hours. Then while GTA5 was on around 6 hours later, the entire system crashed and rebooted. I ran HWinfo and kept an eye on SPD hub temperature while gaming after that. When the temps got higher, I noticed some FPS stutter and decided to close the game and run Y-cruncher while the ram was still hot. Sure enough, immediate fail!
> 
> I left the system on, did not change anything at all other than no more games running. I did very little with the PC, just allowed the memory to cool down a bit before starting Y-cruncher again. So once the temp was around 46c, it passed again. I don't know how it could be any more obvious than that.
> 
> So that interesting part I said I'd get back to later? I dropped the frequency back down to 6200, which seemed rock solid for weeks before, and played GTA5 for several hours, only this time I noticed some small FPS stutter and that made me want to go run Y-cruncher to see if it was actually getting too hot even at 6200MHz. The answer is yes, it failed around the 53% mark. SMH
> 
> So today I called the number I found for G.Skill support and explained to the guy exactly what was happening (it's like "heat soak" in automotive terminology) and how it was because they had no thermal pads in the area of the SPD hub and PMIC. I made sure he knew this failure was infinitely repeatable following these steps. Explained that I don't want to RMA these if they're not going to put a thermal pad in there, and don't want my warranty voided if I do it myself. He said he would let the appropriate people know, find out more information, and so I'm going to call back in a week or so to see what they want to do about it.
> 
> I am considering buying a 40mm noctua to point at them in the meantime


sir, with all due respect, its been well documented that you NEED A FAN activity blowing on the modules as DDR5 runs hot and is VERY VERY temp dependent. Why are you pondering on the idea of running a 40mm fan on the ram, RUN A 140MM FAN ABOVE THE RAM AND DO IT NOW!


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> Just? They tend to be atleast as good as g.skill, team , kingston, corsair etc... Just look at the dell dimms from day 1. 4800mhz green dell, and many do 7000+


not saying they are not good, but they are not binned, or on fancy PCB’s with RGB and worthless heat spreaders.

The OEM green pcb dimms from SK Hynix tend to be about $120 per stick. Once they are in full production you will be able to buy them by the box from many different sources.

I am sure it won’t be long before g.skill etc starts shipping binned 7600-7800 XMP kits; maybe even 8000+; but at a much higher price.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> Ya, unfortunately do not think these TeamGroups are A-Die. 7000 CL32 is erroring out at 1.47v VDD/1.4vddq.
> 
> These things do something weird when they error out I see a huge temp spike to 47-48 from around 35. Kinda a shame, I was hoping for something good here.


Thanks for taking one for the team, Talon.


----------



## bscool

Talon2016 said:


> Testing the TeamGroup Elite 5600 1.1v sticks. Grabbed them on Amazon for easy return. Unfortunately can't tell what they are other than SK Hynix from SPD.


Which one I see there are 2 different "skews" when I google "TeamGroup Elite 5600 1.1v"

The Elite *Plus* has the heat spreader it looks like.

I am guessing they are the same @Gen. posted the Plus the other day.

Edit I see he posted both so looks like a bust.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Scaling of Hynix A-Die (84N BA) at 1.435v (max), TM5 Absolut stable on MSI Z690I UNIFY: 7000 30-40-40-28-2T 7200 32-41-41-28-2T 7400 32-42-42-30-2T 7600 34-45-45-30-2T




www.overclock.net







https://www.teamgroupinc.com/en/catalog/act.php?act=2&index_id=219





https://www.teamgroupinc.com/en/catalog/act.php?act=2&index_id=265


----------



## Talon2016

bscool said:


> Which one I see there are 2 different "skews" when I google "TeamGroup Elite 5600 1.1v"
> 
> The Elite *Plus* has the heat spreader it looks like.
> 
> I am guessing they are the same @Gen. posted the Plus the other day.
> 
> Edit I see he posted both so looks like a bust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Scaling of Hynix A-Die (84N BA) at 1.435v (max), TM5 Absolut stable on MSI Z690I UNIFY: 7000 30-40-40-28-2T 7200 32-41-41-28-2T 7400 32-42-42-30-2T 7600 34-45-45-30-2T
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.teamgroupinc.com/en/catalog/act.php?act=2&index_id=219
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.teamgroupinc.com/en/catalog/act.php?act=2&index_id=265


Yes unfortunately they are the heatspreader type. They're decent M dies but not the best from my initial testing. At this point I'll just wait for official XMP from one of the major brands. They are unlocked btw.

Finally looking like 7000 CL32 is no issue with these guys. I took the crappy aluminum lid off of them and of course no PMIC thermal pad. It's Renesas PMIC. Unlocked works on Dark no issue but 1.57v VDD in BIOS results in about 1.5/1.515v dimm1/2. So it's looking like I simply needed to set higher BIOS voltage to for a proper get voltage comparable to my Z5 and Renegades. 

At 1.5v 7000 CL32 with no heatspreader and just a 60mm Noctua fan blowing directly over them they are sitting at 32/33c load after 10min of testing so far. Wondering if I should even bother with putting the Monarchs on?


----------



## Gadfly

LilOliVert said:


> Sorry, I have to take back what I said. I was going off of what someone else said to me at the time. I have since done many tests and confirmed that these G.Skill do eventually become unstable due to heat, as is, right out of the box.
> 
> For the longest time it seemed I found stability slightly underclocking the Trident Z5 kit to 6200MHz, but that's the interesting part I'll get to later.
> 
> I decided a few days ago to give 6400 another try, and to my utter shock and disbelief I got y-cruncher to finish by pumping the power up to 1.45v on the VDD, VDDQ and IVR. I tried playing some games like Grand Theft Auto 5 and Forza Horizon 5, and all seemed great for several hours. Then while GTA5 was on around 6 hours later, the entire system crashed and rebooted. I ran HWinfo and kept an eye on SPD hub temperature while gaming after that. When the temps got higher, I noticed some FPS stutter and decided to close the game and run Y-cruncher while the ram was still hot. Sure enough, immediate fail!
> 
> I left the system on, did not change anything at all other than no more games running. I did very little with the PC, just allowed the memory to cool down a bit before starting Y-cruncher again. So once the temp was around 46c, it passed again. I don't know how it could be any more obvious than that.
> 
> So that interesting part I said I'd get back to later? I dropped the frequency back down to 6200, which seemed rock solid for weeks before, and played GTA5 for several hours, only this time I noticed some small FPS stutter and that made me want to go run Y-cruncher to see if it was actually getting too hot even at 6200MHz. The answer is yes, it failed around the 53% mark. SMH
> 
> So today I called the number I found for G.Skill support and explained to the guy exactly what was happening (it's like "heat soak" in automotive terminology) and how it was because they had no thermal pads in the area of the SPD hub and PMIC. I made sure he knew this failure was infinitely repeatable following these steps. Explained that I don't want to RMA these if they're not going to put a thermal pad in there, and don't want my warranty voided if I do it myself. He said he would let the appropriate people know, find out more information, and so I'm going to call back in a week or so to see what they want to do about it.
> 
> I am considering buying a 40mm noctua to point at them in the meantime


it isn’t heat soak on the PMIC, it is the memory die themselves that are heat sensitive. As far as I know that PMIC can run well over 70’C without issue. That is why g.skill doesn’t put a pad there.

The issues with the g.skill heat spreaders are 1.) they use a double sided tape to stick the heat spreader to the DIMM and that tape has the approximate thermal conductivity of household insulation. 2.) they are very thin aluminum, and have very little fin area.

Basically they are designed to look good, not to provide any functional cooling. Even moving to just a solid slab on copper with thermal paste makes a massive difference vs OEM heat spreaders; even when if you use better pads.

finally, the thermal sensor is up by the PMIC; so the temp reported in hwinfo is pretty much pointless. If you put a thermal pad up on the PMIC or thermal sensor hwinfo will show lower temps, but that doesn’t mean the memory is running cooler.

tldr: buy after market copper heat spreaders that use thermal paste on the dies.


----------



## 673714

Gadfly said:


> it isn’t heat soak on the PMIC, it is the memory die themselves that are heat sensitive. As far as I know that PMIC can run well over 70’C without issue. That is why g.skill doesn’t put a pad there.
> 
> The issues with the g.skill heat spreaders are 1.) they use a double sided tape to stick the heat spreader to the DIMM and that tape has the approximate thermal conductivity of household insulation. 2.) they are very thin aluminum, and have very little fin area.
> 
> Basically they are designed to look good, not to provide any functional cooling. Even moving to just a solid slab on copper with thermal paste makes a massive difference vs OEM heat spreaders; even when if you use better pads.
> 
> finally, the thermal sensor is up by the PMIC; so the temp reported in hwinfo is pretty much pointless. If you put a thermal pad up on the PMIC or thermal sensor hwinfo will show lower temps, but that doesn’t mean the memory is running cooler.
> 
> tldr: buy after market copper heat spreaders that use thermal paste on the dies.


Oh, well thank you for clarifying. I might just read this to the guy on the phone at G.Skill then to correct myself and better inform him. Do you know if acetone will harm the RGBs? I imagine they'd be fine, but haven't done this before


----------



## z390e

These numbers seem pretty big for A-die though from Raichu's tweet

This is not my picture.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560142969214480384


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE
DDR5-7800~8533MHZ QUAD CHANNEL 16G*2

7800MHZ/C32 GB3-Memory-Score:15261
8000MHZ/C32 GB3-Memory-Score:15318
AIDI64 TEST 7800MHZ/C32 Latency 45.6ns 8C/16HT
AIDI64 TEST 8000MHZ/C32 Latency 45.7ns 8C/16HT
AIDI64 TEST 8200MHZ/C34 Latency 46.0ns 8C/16HT
AIDI64 TEST 8266MHZ/C34 Latency 45.5ns 8C/16HT
AIDI64 TEST 8400MHZ/C36 Latency 49.1ns 8C/16HT
AIDI64 TEST 7800MHZ/C32 Latency 49.3ns 16C/24HT
AIDI64 TEST 8000MHZ/C34 Latency 48.0ns 16C/24HT
R23 7800MHZ / Score:29344
R20 7800MHZ / Score:11198
BIOS:2004u15 SP:79


Spoiler: DDR5-ADIE


----------



## z390e

Regarding current DDR5, can we expect that the "next gen" of DDR5 will not be on the QVL of the 790 series motherboards, but also the current 690 series?

Thinking of pulling the trigger on some better DDR5 if this is all we are going to see from the 690 series, but if the new stuff will be on the QVL for both, I want to wait.


----------



## asdkj1740

Talon2016 said:


> Ya, unfortunately do not think these TeamGroups are A-Die. 7000 CL32 is erroring out at 1.47v VDD/1.4vddq.
> 
> These things do something weird when they error out I see a huge temp spike to 47-48 from around 35. Kinda a shame, I was hoping for something good here.


48c cap should be some bug in the spd chip. some other d5 kit has that issue as well like Kingston fury beast.

btw, everyone here doing 6600mhz very easily on two dimm mobo while i have it very hard to achieve in my case, so each combo of cpu and ram kit and mobo is unique, unless you are using 2021 apex and/or gskill 3636e lmao.

for die checking in software, please use the latest hwinfo (beta), as long as the spd info is fully filled in and correct, die info should be shown on hwinfo now.


----------



## LazyGamer

z390e said:


> Regarding current DDR5, can we expect that the "next gen" of DDR5 will not be on the QVL of the 790 series motherboards, but also the current 690 series?
> 
> Thinking of pulling the trigger on some better DDR5 if this is all we are going to see from the 690 series, but if the new stuff will be on the QVL for both, I want to wait.


Never know, really. A big question remains as to just what Z790 boards will be released - will we get a new Apex? A new Unify-X, Dark, Tachyon? Will ASRock do an OC board that isn't covered in a waterblock and twice as expensive as the others?

I'd bet if the answer is 'no' for the above, that we might see more extensive validation of 'next gen' DDR5 on the current boards. And it's still possible to see decent validation, just depends on the manufacturer.


----------



## don1376

LilOliVert said:


> Oh, well thank you for clarifying. I might just read this to the guy on the phone at G.Skill then to correct myself and better inform him. Do you know if acetone will harm the RGBs? I imagine they'd be fine, but haven't done this before


Not sure if acetone will hurt the plastic the led are part of or not. Could try wiping little in a non noticeable spot and see if it hurts the plastic. I know it's fine for the RAM. Led won't remove separately from heatspreaders?


----------



## energie80

why dont u use a heat gun?


----------



## Arni90

Gadfly said:


> Finally got it stable: 7600C34 2T 1.42/1.44v
> 
> View attachment 2572857


Just a question, but have you tried Karhu, or OCCT CPU Large Data Set? Because I can run testmem5 for ages, while OCCT CPU Large Data set will error quickly due to the IMC being overwhelmed.


----------



## Gadfly

Arni90 said:


> Just a question, but have you tried Karhu, or OCCT CPU Large Data Set? Because I can run testmem5 for ages, while OCCT CPU Large Data set will error quickly due to the IMC being overwhelmed.


 Karhu, yes, OCCT, No I won't join patron just to pay $50 a year for OCCT. I also test to 1500%+ on HCI Memtest.


----------



## Agent-A01

newls1 said:


> sir, with all due respect, its been well documented that you NEED A FAN activity blowing on the modules as DDR5 runs hot and is VERY VERY temp dependent. Why are you pondering on the idea of running a 40mm fan on the ram, RUN A 140MM FAN ABOVE THE RAM AND DO IT NOW!


140MM isn't the best to use. I've tried that(noctua [email protected] max rpm). 3x 40mm Noctua are much more focused on the memory and provide better temps.



Gadfly said:


> The issues with the g.skill heat spreaders are 1.) they use a double sided tape to stick the heat spreader to the DIMM and that tape has the approximate thermal conductivity of household insulation. 2.) they are very thin aluminum, and have very little fin area.


Thermal tape is OK, it's extremely thin. Having a really thick pad with high w/mk would be worse than a 3 w/mk thin tape(I don't know the rating of g.skill's though) because a thick pad has higher thermal impedence. While good thermal pads will help I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

The biggest help would be to replace the spacer pad on the side with no memory ICss
It's literally providing zero thermal transfer to the heatsink. Adding a thermal pad on that side would help a lot with transferring some heat to the heatsink.

As it currently stands it does nothing(cold to the touch while opposite side is very hot).


----------



## energie80

Which thermal tape are you using?


----------



## 673714

energie80 said:


> why dont u use a heat gun?


Or just pop them out and tear them apart while they're still hot from GTA5?


----------



## energie80

Don’t even need to buy a heat gun 🙈


----------



## bscool

Edit wasnt a die like i thought.


----------



## Talon2016

bscool said:


> Edit wasnt a die like i thought.


You talking about the TeamGroups Elites?


----------



## Arni90

Gadfly said:


> Karhu, yes, OCCT, No I won't join patron just to pay $50 a year for OCCT. I also test to 1500%+ on HCI Memtest.


The free test gives you a 1 hour test.
I find that OCCT is extremely efficient at discovering unstable IMCs, often making it difficult to pass even 5 minutes.
I could run 6800 in y-cruncher, but OCCT showed issues until I went to 6400 on M-die.

Now with A-die, it seems like the gap is still there, with me being able to push 7600 for y-cruncher, while even 7200 being a struggle to stabilize the IMC in OCCT's CPU test.
And no, it's not VCore. I tried forcing down core clocks to 4.0 GHz

Maybe I have a **** IMC, maybe it's my Z690 Unify-X being sub-par, but I struggle to fathom how my experience is so dramatically different.


----------



## bscool

Talon2016 said:


> You talking about the TeamGroups Elites?


No it was Team T Force Vulcan I saw a pic of the die and they are m die.


----------



## QXE

Gadfly said:


> Karhu, yes, OCCT, No I won't join patron just to pay $50 a year for OCCT. I also test to 1500%+ on HCI Memtest.


Linpack and y-cruncher will do a better job at finding memory errors than OCCT.


----------



## Agent-A01

LilOliVert said:


> Or just pop them out and tear them apart while they're still hot from GTA5?


They better be above 60c before you try that, I tried at 50~c and it ripped an IC off lol


----------



## Talon2016

I hit the heat spreader on my TeamGroup Elites with the wife's hair dryer for about 20 seconds on each side the they peeled right off.


----------



## Gadfly

Arni90 said:


> The free test gives you a 1 hour test.
> I find that OCCT is extremely efficient at discovering unstable IMCs, often making it difficult to pass even 5 minutes.
> I could run 6800 in y-cruncher, but OCCT showed issues until I went to 6400 on M-die.
> 
> Now with A-die, it seems like the gap is still there, with me being able to push 7600 for y-cruncher, while even 7200 being a struggle to stabilize the IMC in OCCT's CPU test.
> And no, it's not VCore. I tried forcing down core clocks to 4.0 GHz
> 
> Maybe I have a **** IMC, maybe it's my Z690 Unify-X being sub-par, but I struggle to fathom how my experience is so dramatically different.


I had OCCT for a long time, I just stopped when I went to renew and found that the only way to renew was a monthly subscription model that doubled the price. 

I supposed I would have to see exactly what test you are running etc. Generally, I don't think of OCCT Large as being a good memory stability test; but I supposed it makes sense that your IMC could start to struggle as die temps increase (Increase SA voltage?).


----------



## Arni90

Gadfly said:


> I had OCCT for a long time, I just stopped when I went to renew and found that the only way to renew was a monthly subscription model that doubled the price.
> 
> I supposed I would have to see exactly what test you are running etc. Generally, I don't think of OCCT Large as being a good memory stability test; but I supposed it makes sense that your IMC could start to struggle as die temps increase (Increase SA voltage?).


I've tried VCCSA 1.20, 1.30, 1.35, 1.40, and 1.45, none of them mattered. 1.10V VCCSA doesn't boot.
Similarly, I've tried VDD2 and VDDQ voltages, most success as of yet has been 1.50V VDD2 and 1.525V VDDQ CPU

OCCT Large CPU is by no means a memory stability test, it's an IMC test.


----------



## warbucks

Talon2016 said:


> I hit the heat spreader on my TeamGroup Elites with the wife's hair dryer for about 20 seconds on each side the they peeled right off.


You have the Elite Plus sticks right? Were you able to confirm for certain they aren't A-die?


----------



## acoustic

Got 6666 stable finally! Even that was a fight.

Had to raise CPU VDDQ TX to 1.40v from 1.35v for 6600.


----------



## Talon2016

warbucks said:


> You have the Elite Plus sticks right? Were you able to confirm for certain they aren't A-die?


Yes, and as of right now I don't think they're A-Die. They seem to max out at 7000 CL32 on my Dark board. Similar to all M-Die I've used. When I took the heat speaders off they are marked using TeamGroup markings and nothing I could tell that they were A Die. Hwinfo64 doesn't provide any information either unfortunately.


----------



## don1376

Finally got my Kingston Renegades solid at 6933 cl32,40, 40,28 with decently tight sub-timings. Ran memtest overnight. No errors. Not at home so can't post screenshots. Aida was 110gb,106gb,105gb, 54ns. Good enough for me for $230 pair of sticks. Also ran TM5 and Aida. Max Temps 42c.


----------



## tubs2x4

don1376 said:


> Finally got my Kingston Renegades solid at 6933 cl32,40, 40,28 with decently tight sub-timings. Ran memtest overnight. No errors. Not at home so can't post screenshots. Aida was 110gb,106gb,105gb, 54ns. Good enough for me for $230 pair of sticks. Also ran TM5 and Aida. Max Temps 42c.


Do you game? Be interesting to see if like shadow of tomb raider benchmark would see increased cpu fps with say going from 6400 to 7000.


----------



## don1376

tubs2x4 said:


> Do you game? Be interesting to see if like shadow of tomb raider benchmark would see increased cpu fps with say going from 6400 to 7000.


Yes, don't have that game installed but have it and don't mind installing once I get home from work.


----------



## warbucks

Looks like G.Skill just announced it's DDR5-6800 kit. CL32-45-45-108. Available in October. Wonder if these will be A-die?


----------



## Talon2016

warbucks said:


> Looks like G.Skill just announced it's DDR5-6800 kit. CL32-45-45-108. Available in October. Wonder if these will be A-die?


Look like these are A-Die. They validated the speeds on the Z690 Hero with a 12700K. Even the dual rank 2x32gb kit was validated at 6400 CL32 which is impressive for a 4 dimm board and suggests they are A-die following recent rumors of high speed even on hero boards.


----------



## ObviousCough

I want to believe 


But there's still the possibility they're max binned m die.

If only we knew what voltage was being used.


----------



## acoustic

acoustic said:


> Got 6666 stable finally! Even that was a fight.
> 
> Had to raise CPU VDDQ TX to 1.40v from 1.35v for 6600.


This passed TM5 ABSOLUT, and Karhu 20300%.

Decided to do a quick test and run Karhu again after the PC was off for the night. DRAM training is set to "No Training".

Failed at 376% Karhu.

I'm about to XMP this ***** and run away lol


----------



## DanGleeballs

acoustic said:


> This passed TM5 ABSOLUT, and Karhu 20300%.
> 
> Decided to do a quick test and run Karhu again after the PC was off for the night. DRAM training is set to "No Training".
> 
> Failed at 376% Karhu.
> 
> I'm about to XMP this *** and run away lol


Not sure if this has been asked already but is you CPU overclocked?


----------



## acoustic

DanGleeballs said:


> Not sure if this has been asked already but is you CPU overclocked?


Stock CPU for all mem testing, e-cores disabled.

This reminded me of low SA voltage with the sporadic working, then not working. Bumped SA to .980mv, and we're now back to stable @ 3300% and counting. This **** is wild. I think this chip's IMC is just haunted by a ghost or something


----------



## Gadfly

Arni90 said:


> I've tried VCCSA 1.20, 1.30, 1.35, 1.40, and 1.45, none of them mattered. 1.10V VCCSA doesn't boot.
> Similarly, I've tried VDD2 and VDDQ voltages, most success as of yet has been 1.50V VDD2 and 1.525V VDDQ CPU
> 
> OCCT Large CPU is by no means a memory stability test, it's an IMC test.


Honestly, 1.525v CPU VDDQ seems crazy high to me; I won’t run that kind of voltage on an internal rail unless it was a YOLO “If he dies, he dies” type of thingat least not on ambient.

about VDD2, do you find that it scales with voltage, so 1.4v has more errors than 1.5v? What board is this again?

I might download the free version of OCCT and see what it does, right now I am binning memory so it might be a few days.


----------



## Gadfly

acoustic said:


> Stock CPU for all mem testing, e-cores disabled.
> 
> This reminded me of low SA voltage with the sporadic working, then not working. Bumped SA to .980mv, and we're now back to stable @ 3300% and counting. This **** is wild. I think this chip's IMC is just haunted by a ghost or something


My guess is you are right on the edge of stability, so even very small changes make a big difference, .5’C change in temp, small voltage fluctuations etc.

I’d recommend you leave SA set to dynamic, and add a +50 or +100 offset and run it that way. I could run 7000C30 1T at 0.941v SA (stock), but for 7600 I require 0.985v, 1.036v for 7800, 1.083v for 8000.


----------



## acoustic

I am using the offset, yes. 

Got an error at 4890% on that last run. No clue. Just flashed to the new MSI official release.. doubt it changes anything.


----------



## CptSpig

I received my Water Block RAM Direct Chip DDR5 Full Copper. Also my DDR5 A-Die is on it's way!


Spoiler: Water Block and Memory


----------



## Alexshunter

Guys, where possible to buy this memory modules?
HMCG78AGBUA081N








Next generation DDR5 ICs Review: SK hynix 16 Gbit A-Die - 2x 16 GB with overclocking and gaming | igor'sLAB


Today I have a glimpse into the near future of RAM technology for you, and as is so often the case in the computer hardware industry, it comes from China, where SK Hynix's new DDR5 memory ICs are…




www.igorslab.de





It says via some proxy, but does not clear me. Or different A-die?


----------



## CptSpig

Alexshunter said:


> Guys, where possible to buy this memory modules?
> HMCG78AGBUA081N
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next generation DDR5 ICs Review: SK hynix 16 Gbit A-Die - 2x 16 GB with overclocking and gaming | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Today I have a glimpse into the near future of RAM technology for you, and as is so often the case in the computer hardware industry, it comes from China, where SK Hynix's new DDR5 memory ICs are…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says via some proxy, but does not clear me. Or different A-die?


Splave over on HWBot is selling some binned dimms. Also I found these and ordered two dimms: Superbuy-Shopping Agent


----------



## Gadfly

warbucks said:


> Looks like G.Skill just announced it's DDR5-6800 kit. CL32-45-45-108. Available in October. Wonder if these will be A-die?


Almost certainly will be A-die


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> I hit the heat spreader on my TeamGroup Elites with the wife's hair dryer for about 20 seconds on each side the they peeled right off.


I've never owned (or even seen) a hair dryer before.
Before I make the magic smoke come out, what temperature setting are you supposed to set these things too?


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> This passed TM5 ABSOLUT, and Karhu 20300%.
> 
> Decided to do a quick test and run Karhu again after the PC was off for the night. DRAM training is set to "No Training".
> 
> Failed at 376% Karhu.
> 
> I'm about to XMP this *** and run away lol


Did you try setting System Agent frequency to 1600 mhz (Auto default is 3200 mhz) and then set System Agent "PLL voltage" to 0.976v?
Someone claimed this helped them do 6600 mhz over 15 consecutive clear cmoses, cold boots and power offs.


----------



## opt33

The team elite+ with heat spreaders removed (brute forced peeled them off after failing 6400 and surprisingly didnt damage them), markings are "BP-4M 1E186014 94V" (memory module side there are no markings) Pretty sure not newer A die as used memory for sale on ebay with same markings. These were 4800C40 team elite+1.1v just arrived from newegg today and would not train >6400, voltage locked 1.435. Ill just wait on G. skill, corsair, or teamgroup to release binned ram with higher speeds and clearer markings and hopefully not locked voltage.


----------



## acoustic

Falkentyne said:


> Did you try setting System Agent frequency to 1600 mhz (Auto default is 3200 mhz) and then set System Agent "PLL voltage" to 0.976v?
> Someone claimed this helped them do 6600 mhz over 15 consecutive clear cmoses, cold boots and power offs.


Yeah! Tried that after I seen that post in the Maximus thread.

Unfortunately, failed even faster.

I'm 99.9% sure this is a CPU IMC issue - not motherboard or memory related. As soon as I drop back to 6600, I can run voltages super low on CPU VDDQ TX and VDD2. If I go up, even to 6666, I get very sporadic pass/fails. One time it'll boot and run perfect, and then if you reboot (even with no re-training), it will fail at some random %. I've done all the tricks they say with the Unify-X, like pulling the plug after changing voltages. I don't seem to have that issue to begin with, but did it anyway.. and nothing.

I did notice that if you load an OC profile, the board will shut down completely and power-cycle, rather than just reboot like a normal Save&Exit would. I've even tried doing that with the same settings.. and it's still extremely sporadic.

I spent a lot of time with this specific CPU on DDR4, and it acted exactly the same when I hit the IMC wall. Anything above 3800 would result in this exact same behavior; the closer you got to 3800 (like say, 3866), it would act normal more often. The further you went over that wall (like 3900,4000, or with DDR5, 6800/7000), it'll get more and more unpredictable.

I've tried an insane amount of different voltage settings across the board. I've done it meticulously, saving each profile based off of what percentage it gets in Karhu. Stock CPU during this entire time to rule that variable out.

Sometimes you just lose the lottery! It's a 12700K, and if it's anything like DDR4 IMC was, the 12900K IMC was _on average_ better binned than the 12700K. I have a very middling IMC with pretty good P/E cores, but I've never seen the SP since it's never been plugged into a STRIX or Maximus board.


----------



## don1376

Falkentyne said:


> I've never owned (or even seen) a hair dryer before.
> Before I make the magic smoke come out, what temperature setting are you supposed to set these things too?


Easier to soak in acetone or clear finger nail polish remover imo. 20 to 30 min and they'll almost fall off. No worries on temp or pulling chips off.


----------



## don1376

tubs2x4 said:


> Do you game? Be interesting to see if like shadow of tomb raider benchmark would see increased cpu fps with say going from 6400 to 7000.


Shadow of Tomb Raider Ultra setting - 6933mhz cl32 tight timings vs SoTR 6400mhz cl32 same timings


----------



## Gadfly

acoustic said:


> Yeah! Tried that after I seen that post in the Maximus thread.
> 
> Unfortunately, failed even faster.
> 
> I'm 99.9% sure this is a CPU IMC issue - not motherboard or memory related. As soon as I drop back to 6600, I can run voltages super low on CPU VDDQ TX and VDD2. If I go up, even to 6666, I get very sporadic pass/fails. One time it'll boot and run perfect, and then if you reboot (even with no re-training), it will fail at some random %. I've done all the tricks they say with the Unify-X, like pulling the plug after changing voltages. I don't seem to have that issue to begin with, but did it anyway.. and nothing.
> 
> I did notice that if you load an OC profile, the board will shut down completely and power-cycle, rather than just reboot like a normal Save&Exit would. I've even tried doing that with the same settings.. and it's still extremely sporadic.
> 
> I spent a lot of time with this specific CPU on DDR4, and it acted exactly the same when I hit the IMC wall. Anything above 3800 would result in this exact same behavior; the closer you got to 3800 (like say, 3866), it would act normal more often. The further you went over that wall (like 3900,4000, or with DDR5, 6800/7000), it'll get more and more unpredictable.
> 
> I've tried an insane amount of different voltage settings across the board. I've done it meticulously, saving each profile based off of what percentage it gets in Karhu. Stock CPU during this entire time to rule that variable out.
> 
> Sometimes you just lose the lottery! It's a 12700K, and if it's anything like DDR4 IMC was, the 12900K IMC was _on average_ better binned than the 12700K. I have a very middling IMC with pretty good P/E cores, but I've never seen the SP since it's never been plugged into a STRIX or Maximus board.


that 100% sounds like motherboard/signaling. 

I (and countless others) had that exact behavior on ROG Apex’s. It would boot and run, but nothing would make it stable 6600+, drop down even 1 strap, everything just worked.


----------



## 673714

Falkentyne said:


> I've never owned (or even seen) a hair dryer before.
> Before I make the magic smoke come out, what temperature setting are you supposed to set these things too?


A hair dryer is designed so it doesn't get extremely hot, since it is being pointed at our heads lol. You really shouldn't have to worry about it being too hot for the memory modules


----------



## tubs2x4

don1376 said:


> Shadow of Tomb Raider Ultra setting - 6933mhz cl32 tight timings vs SoTR 6400mhz cl32 same timings


nice. Thx for doing that. 14fps difference for cpu average 6400 vs 6933 although 300fps+ on either don’t much matter. You need a 4090 instead of ram speed now haha


----------



## sulalin

Alexshunter，帖子：29034260，成員：365416 said:


> 各位大俠，哪裡可以買到這種內存條？
> HMCG78AGUA081N
> https://www.igorslab.de/en/second-g...gbit-a-die-2x-16-gb-modules-review-帶有超頻和遊戲基準/
> 它通過一些代理說，但沒有清除我。還是不同的A-die？
> [/引用]Now there is a group of about 1,500 yuan.


----------



## sulalin

warbucks，帖子：29033813，成員：354861 said:


> 你有 Elite Plus 棒嗎？你能確定他們不是A-die嗎？
> [/引用]
> 到底誰說這些已經死了？


----------



## acoustic

Gadfly said:


> that 100% sounds like motherboard/signaling.
> 
> I (and countless others) had that exact behavior on ROG Apex’s. It would boot and run, but nothing would make it stable 6600+, drop down even 1 strap, everything just worked.


Then I have the worst Unify-X ever made.

Testing 6600 32-39-39-32 overnight almost corrupted my Windows install. Got an error at 16000%, had to load defaults in BIOS and run a repair to get back in. Lolol


----------



## opt33

acoustic said:


> Then I have the worst Unify-X ever made.
> 
> Testing 6600 32-39-39-32 overnight almost corrupted my Windows install. Got an error at 16000%, had to load defaults in BIOS and run a repair to get back in. Lolol


There is no way to know which component is limiting until try multiple of each. I have tried 9 ddr5 kits, 2 sent back as wouldnt do xmp 6400/6600 stable. 1 samsung kit will do 7000 bench, 6600 stable. Only 2 of 9 hynix kits will do 6800 stable on air, only 1 will bench 7000 (with cold a/c air). The rest max at 6600 stable, except the one that maxed at 6400 stable (and sent back as wouldnt run xmp at rated volts). 

Once A die kits sold as 6800 then you can see if yours will do 6800.


----------



## DanGleeballs

opt33 said:


> There is no way to know which component is limiting until try multiple of each. I have tried 9 ddr5 kits, 2 sent back as wouldnt do xmp 6400/6600 stable. 1 samsung kit will do 7000 bench, 6600 stable. Only 2 of 9 hynix kits will do 6800 stable on air, only 1 will bench 7000 (with cold a/c air). The rest max at 6600 stable, except the one that maxed at 6400 stable (and sent back as wouldnt run xmp at rated volts).
> 
> Once A die kits sold as 6800 then you can see if yours will do 6800.


So I'm really lucky to get 6800 c32 with a Corsair 6200c36 kit, a 12700kf and a second hand Unify-X
Wow I never win anything 🤣


----------



## sulalin

warbucks，帖子：29033813，成員：354861 said:


> 你有 Elite Plus 棒嗎？你能確定他們不是A-die嗎？
> [/引用]This is ADIE~~~


----------



## acoustic

opt33 said:


> There is no way to know which component is limiting until try multiple of each. I have tried 9 ddr5 kits, 2 sent back as wouldnt do xmp 6400/6600 stable. 1 samsung kit will do 7000 bench, 6600 stable. Only 2 of 9 hynix kits will do 6800 stable on air, only 1 will bench 7000 (with cold a/c air). The rest max at 6600 stable, except the one that maxed at 6400 stable (and sent back as wouldnt run xmp at rated volts).
> 
> Once A die kits sold as 6800 then you can see if yours will do 6800.


We will see when 13900K drops. I'm likely going to replace this 12700K and then leave the system alone for a long time.


----------



## Thunderclap

TeamGroup Delta RGB 2x16GB DDR5 7200 CL34









Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com


Buy Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





Memory model* FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01*


----------



## acoustic

That has to be A-Die


----------



## ObviousCough

The game is afoot!


----------



## franciscooterovalle

Hi guys, I just brought 2 sticks of corsair vengeance 6200 cl 36-39-39-76 1.3v richtech. On my kingpin volts won't go over 1.43 if I try tied like 1.6 it shows on bios or windows 1.2v. I tried bios 1.15 1.14 1.10 and .1.12 and have the same issue. On the other side, I can change the voltage on my G.skills 6600 richtech with no problem. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## warbucks

franciscooterovalle said:


> Hi guys, I just brought 2 sticks of corsair vengeance 6200 cl 36-39-39-76 1.3v richtech. On my kingpin volts won't go over 1.43 if I try tied like 1.6 it shows on bios or windows 1.2v. I tried bios 1.15 1.14 1.10 and .1.12 and have the same issue. On the other side, I can change the voltage on my G.skills 6600 richtech with no problem. Any help would be appreciated.


You need to enable extreme voltage mode in the bios.


----------



## warbucks

Thunderclap said:


> TeamGroup Delta RGB 2x16GB DDR5 7200 CL34
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory model* FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01*


Sweet baby jesus. Let's go.


----------



## z390e

those aren't even listed yet on teamgroups site


----------



## franciscooterovalle

warbucks said:


> You need to enable extreme voltage mode in the bios.


Is enabled at the moment I'm using my g.kills @1.48v


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE
DDR5-8000MHZ CL-34-4545-58
GB3-Memory Score:15581
BIOS:2004U15 SP:79
OS:WIN11 PRO 22H2


----------



## ViTosS

acoustic said:


> This passed TM5 ABSOLUT, and Karhu 20300%.
> 
> Decided to do a quick test and run Karhu again after the PC was off for the night. DRAM training is set to "No Training".
> 
> Failed at 376% Karhu.
> 
> I'm about to XMP this *** and run away lol


Try clearing CMOS and reapplying your memory OC again but before change from No Training to Enabled and leave it Enabled, try stress test again, reboot and try stress test again and etc. I had mem OC failing on me after some reboots when I had it to No Training, even passing the stress test for the first times and failing during the week/month over PC shutdowns and reboots. This was my experience with MSI mobo and DDR4 for 10900k, I think should be the same for your setup, this fixed the problem for me.


----------



## z390e

G.Skill 6800 announced yesterday also









G.SKILL Announces DDR5-6800 CL32 2x16GB and DDR5-6400 CL32 2x32GB Trident Z5 RGB Memory Kits - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


22 Sep 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading brand of performance overclock memory and PC components, is excited to announce two new extreme overclocked performance DDR5 memory specifications to its flagship Trident Z5 RGB series: DDR5-6800 CL32-45-45-108 32GB...




www.gskill.com


----------



## newls1

im waiting for newegg to restock those 7200's... ill snag them in a hot second!


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

newls1 said:


> im waiting for newegg to restock those 7200's... ill snag them in a hot second!



I think it's a typo. Look at the advert for the memory under the same posting he posted. It talks about 6400 max speed.


----------



## warbucks

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I think it's a typo. Look at the advert for the memory under the same posting he posted. It talks about 6400 max speed.


I doubt it's a typo. It's likely they copied the content from another product page and are in the process of updating that content which is the advert you're seeing. This item doesn't even show up yet if you try to navigate by components.


----------



## newls1

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I think it's a typo. Look at the advert for the memory under the same posting he posted. It talks about 6400 max speed.


doubt its a typo... itll be coming out shortly


----------



## newls1

warbucks said:


> I doubt it's a typo. It's likely they copied the content from another product page and are in the process of updating that content which is the advert you're seeing. This item doesn't even show up yet if you try to navigate by components.


if you use the search feature on newegg, and just type 7200 ddr5, it'll pop up. you have to select "team group" on left side columns


----------



## z390e

I dont think its sold out I think its not available yet


----------



## Gen.

Can you please tell me which bios do you have the best for ASUS? 1505 works best for me, 1601 seems to be also good, but 1720 is not very stable at all, is it worth installing 2004 or not? I'm just worried that I won't be able to return 1505 back...

And also the owners of the Z690 Dark - this board came to me last week, the weight of 2.300kg is impressive  What bios do you use for RENESAS? 1.15 or new beta? P.S. I plan to collect on Sunday, when it will rain outside the window and the weather will be cool at 10 degrees


----------



## domdtxdissar

A-die from china by Superbuy-Shopping Agent proxy


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE
> DDR5-8000MHZ CL-34-4545-58
> GB3-Memory Score:15581
> BIOS:2004U15 SP:79
> OS:WIN11 PRO 22H2
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573188
> 
> View attachment 2573189


where is your teamgroup delta 7200mhz a die kit?


----------



## IronAge

A-Die from Newegg ? 






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com





SB been able to pre-order it ?


----------



## don1376

I started getting errors at 6933 so dropped to 6800 and have been able to tighten timings even further by a decent amount stable in short tests, going to test longer of course but I need some suggestions for tRFC and tRfCpb for hynix chips. Tried 340/270 and is too low. Here's current timings.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Try 366and 293


----------



## newls1

my trp and trcd have to be @ 40 for 6800 to be fully stable @ 1.5v for atleast my sticks. also I use trdwr @ 20 for stability, 19 causes instability over time at temps over 46/47c... @ 20 im good to high 50's


----------



## don1376

DanGleeballs said:


> Try 366and 293


About to try now, thanks.



newls1 said:


> my trp and trcd have to be @ 40 for 6800 to be fully stable @ 1.5v for atleast my sticks. also I use trdwr @ 20 for stability, 19 causes instability over time at temps over 46/47c... @ 20 im good to high 50's


My temps are max 41c at 1.57 mem vdd, 1.48 vddq and 1.87 vpp. They reach that in about 6 mins and stay there. Maybe fluctuate up and down by .25, but I also installed copper heat spreaders I ordered from Amazon for $10 a pair. Dropped my memory temps by almost 7c.


----------



## don1376

So far 366/293 past TM5 with no errors, running OCCT for 20 mins now if that passes on to HCI and let it run till error if it does. Got my AIDA bandwith within .5gb of what it was at 6933 and 54ns latency which was 56ns at 6933.


----------



## don1376

One error in Aida. Had none before 366/293. Guess need to try step higher.


----------



## newls1

or put your trp and trcd to 40! my latency is right at 50.. dont know why you are at 56ish.. must be from my faster cpu clock/ring speed maybe


----------



## don1376

Okay, trying 40. Lost a little bandwidth but latency stayed same. Running tests again.


----------



## don1376

So far so good at 40,40. TM5 passed, 20 mins of OCCT, and just hit 1000% in Karhu.
Edit: Stopped Karhu at 1600% no errors. HCI Memtest running now at 50% complete and current temp 39.5c. I believe if I can benchmark SoTR with no crashes and can play Spiderman Remastered without crashes, going to call it stable. AIDA latency still at 55ns. 6800mhz cl32,40,40,28 @ VRAM VDD 1.56v, VDDQ 1.48v, VPP 1.86v, 41c max


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> So far so good at 40,40. TM5 passed, 20 mins of OCCT, and just hit 1000% in Karhu.
> Edit: Stopped Karhu at 1600% no errors. HCI Memtest running now at 50% complete and current temp 39.5c. I believe if I can benchmark SoTR with no crashes and can play Spiderman Remastered without crashes, going to call it stable. AIDA latency still at 55ns. 6800mhz cl32,40,40,28 @ VRAM VDD 1.56v, VDDQ 1.48v, VPP 1.86v, 41c max


you can prob drop your ram voltage to 1.510ish from 1.56 now that you are @ 40/40....
also your RDWR's are boarderline @ 19... i'd set them both to 20


----------



## don1376

newls1 said:


> you can prob drop your ram voltage to 1.510ish from 1.56 now that you are @ 40/40....
> also your RDWR's are boarderline @ 19... i'd set them both to 20


Okay, thanks. I'll change back to 20. I'll try less volts but the change to 39,39 was a recent change and didn't require the volt increase.


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2573274


Try 8700.


----------



## owikh84

My second Hynix A-die, now with unlocked Renesas PMIC and 224A ICs. I think I've reached the edge of OC with this kit. Maybe I'm limited by the IMC, RAM or BIOS. Voltage scaling is worse than my locked 84N kit (7600 34-45-45-30-2T @ 1.435v). This 81N requires higher SA but lower TX VDDQ compared to 84N.

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.82 (Best for 81N but bad for 84N)
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7800 34-48-48-30-2T
VDD 1.66V | VDDQ 1.65V | TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.30v | MC 1.40v







*


----------



## earphonelnwshop

Today i try new beta bios 2.0 with Z690 DRAK KINGPIN
OC ram for daily use. 7800 Daily CL32-44-45 +Some tight sub
Tm5 extreme profile passed

i love this motherboard


----------



## sulalin

asdkj1740 said:


> 您的 teamgroup delta 7200mhz 模具套件在哪裡？
> [/引用]
> 我沒有。


----------



## Raphie

don1376 said:


> So far so good at 40,40. TM5 passed, 20 mins of OCCT, and just hit 1000% in Karhu.
> Edit: Stopped Karhu at 1600% no errors. HCI Memtest running now at 50% complete and current temp 39.5c. I believe if I can benchmark SoTR with no crashes and can play Spiderman Remastered without crashes, going to call it stable. AIDA latency still at 55ns. 6800mhz cl32,40,40,28 @ VRAM VDD 1.56v, VDDQ 1.48v, VPP 1.86v, 41c max


Karhu below 10.000 means nothing. Things go south @ 8200% as easily.

Try these: (stable @ 1.45v VDD / VDDQ)


----------



## owikh84

TRCD tightened with a little more juices.  

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.82 (Best for 81N but bad for 84N)
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7800 34-46-46-30-2T
VDD 1.68V | VDDQ 1.66V | TX VDDQ 1.37V | SA 1.30v | MC 1.40v*


----------



## Nizzen

Raphie said:


> Karhu below 10.000 means nothing. Things go south @ 8200% as easily.


Remember, that's your opinion.

My opinion is minimum 2 hours BF 2042, or it isn't stable. 
10k in karhu means nothing without this 
This combined is meta for me


----------



## Raphie

Nizzen said:


> Remember, that's your opinion.
> 
> My opinion is minimum 2 hours BF 2042, or it isn't stable.
> 10k in karhu means nothing without this
> This combined is meta for me


True, the benchmark should be everything you throw at it should be stable.
I don't game on my PC (PS5 here) so I don't have that reference. 
Let me rephrase then: WHEN using Karhu, AT LEAST run 10K% coverage.


----------



## sulalin

asdkj1740 said:


> 您的 teamgroup delta 7200mhz 模具套件在哪裡？
> [/引用 這個？


----------



## sulalin

teamgroup delta 7200mhz XMP CL 34-4242-84 1.4V OC 7800 36 45 45 76 1.35V RUNMEMTESTPRO 7









teamgroup delta 7200mhz


----------



## Arni90

Maybe not the most impressive result for A-die, but it is mine, and it is stable at whatever I throw at it


----------



## don1376

Raphie said:


> Karhu below 10.000 means nothing. Things go south @ 8200% as easily.
> 
> Try these: (stable @ 1.45v VDD / VDDQ)
> 
> View attachment 2573308
> 
> View attachment 2573309


 I'll run Karhu to 10,000. For me it it past karhu to 1600%, hci memtest pro 100%, TM5 and 20 mins of OCCT which gets my mem the hottest and then can play Spiderman Remastered maxed settings for 4 hours, Metro Redux for 2 hours, Baulders Gate 3 for hours and bench SoTR max setting with no problems at all its stable enough for me.


----------



## newls1

i want some A Die 😭


----------



## Zero989

Samsung, running almost as tight as possible. Its only weakness is trfc (447).


----------



## Arni90

Zero989 said:


> Samsung, running almost as tight as possible. Its only weakness is trfc (447).
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573338


Just a heads-up, AIDA64 is dividing/multiplying memory latency and bandwidth with base clock.
That's why a lot of people are using Intel Memory Latency Checker instead.


----------



## Zero989

Arni90 said:


> Just a heads-up, AIDA64 is dividing/multiplying memory latency and bandwidth with base clock.
> That's why a lot of people are using Intel Memory Latency Checker instead.


I actually get lower numbers in IMLCGui (46.4)

Also I noticed IMLC pushes CPU harder (all core clocks) whereas AIDA utilizes just 1 core boost.


----------



## Nizzen

After "5000" restarts, I'm taking a break from A-die.... Back to same performance on M-die 🤣


----------



## tubs2x4

Zero989 said:


> Samsung, running almost as tight as possible. Its only weakness is trfc (447).
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573338


Could you post what your ram timings and ram voltage used?


----------



## z390e

@Nizzen I've been reading this thread for months and Im still struggling lol meanwhile people are posting a-die at 8K+ speeds


----------



## Nizzen

z390e said:


> @Nizzen I've been reading this thread for months and Im still struggling lol meanwhile people are posting a-die at 8K+ speeds


8k looks cool, but that's about it 
We need a-die gen 2 with low TRFC like m-die


----------



## z390e

idk, 120+ read at sub 45 latency is pretty damned good


----------



## Nizzen

z390e said:


> idk, 120+ read at sub 45 latency is pretty damned good


Yeah it's good, but not GOD  
Fun to play though


----------



## Zero989

tubs2x4 said:


> Could you post what your ram timings and ram voltage used?


RTL is 64/59 for both DIMM slots


----------



## Gen.

Well, friends. I will evaluate Dark on my M-Die OEM and 12700KF SP65.


----------



## bscool

Nizzen said:


> After "5000" restarts, I'm taking a break from A-die.... Back to same performance on M-die 🤣


Did you order Oloy A die also? I am tempted but...........

I am curious to see how the "binned/XMP" A die kits will compared to green sticks.


----------



## Falkentyne

bscool said:


> Did you order Oloy A die also? I am tempted but...........
> 
> I am curious to see how the "binned/XMP" A die kits will compared to green sticks.


I would get the $180 2/16 gb kingston m-die sticks for 6400-6800 mhz of tight timing RAM and wait for better A-die, if the rumors about A-die having Jufes tRFC are true (and them doing terrible on cold).


----------



## J_Lab4645

For anyone here with a Z690 Apex

90MB18I0-M0AAY0
90MB18I0-M0EAY0 (November 2021)
that has written it off due to the A Channel being complete crap. I need you to try one thing that has brought my Z690 90MB18I0-M0AAY0 back from the depths of hell. The A Channel is Super sensitive to ram seating. I could not get my 90MB18I0-M0AAY0 Z690 Apex to OC over 6000mhz. I just thought I had a bum board as documented in Igors lab One Motherboard, Two Faces - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex review with Teardown, RAM- & Adaptive Core-OC | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de) . I was ready to write it off and wait for Z790. And then one thing that bugged the heck out of me.....The B channel, (when seating ram) would just "click" in. The Tabs on the North and South Side (being wide open before installation) just worked. It was like hearing a shotgun being loaded. You just placed your ram in that slot and then applied pressure to North and South and Bang Bang. It just pressed into the appropriate place. You can actually hear the "click" , "click" as it seats the ram. My A Channel was never this way. I approached the installation on the A Channel the same way as the B Channel but never got that "perfectly positive seating". I thought that I was applying enough pressure but never had that positive "click" in as I did with the B Channel. I ran my system for almost a year in this way. I thought I was lucky to have an Apex that did 6000mhz seamlessly. It seemed to seat perfectly, but ...alas. No Bueno. Whenever I tried to OC the RAM....Sh*tsville. I just chalked it up to no patience and no skill. I literally fu*_ed with this slot for over 10 minutes last week and felt the Ram Stick move lower than I thought it should go. After this maneuver my A slot is doing 6800mhz passing ram tests when it was intermittent at 6000mhz. I've had this board since Dec 2021 and the whole time My A Channel Ram wasn't appropriately seated. Can you believe this complete cluster fu*_? I didn't want to post this 5 minutes after discovery but waited a week to do Ram testing on MemTest86, Kahru, TestMem5. Passed 5 hours of each. ***!? I am a happy camper now and can't believe that having my Ram in the A Channel at 99.5% seated compared to 100% seated made the difference. You would have thought that if your Ram wasn't seated appropriately that it would have bunked out massive errors immediately. We've all heard of this kind of situation with novice builders and would never, ever think this was a possibility with most of us but if this post helps at least 1 of you out there that think you have a complete crap Z690 Apex........screw with that A Channel seating......it literally saved me from buying and rebuilding my PC!


----------



## bscool

For sale, 2021 Apex. Must use sledge hammer to install chA/slot 1 

I still have mine Ill be sure to press extra hard next time I fire it up. Maybe post this in the Asus thread or Ill link it so others can try it.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

z390e said:


> @Nizzen I've been reading this thread for months and Im still struggling lol meanwhile people are posting a-die at 8K+ speeds



Five people are posting what you stated. Five people. Five. People.

Nizen's one of the five. He's been a totally nice guy towards everyone that has had a possibly different opinion then his. He's always open minded to different opinions.

The other four don't attack anyone at all and are helpful somewhat.

They're all from the same country it would seem.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> 8k looks cool, but that's about it
> We need a-die gen 2 with low TRFC like m-die


Low tRFC really doesn't make much of a difference when you can set tREFI to 131000 and per-bank refresh is a thing.
Since AMD still won't expose tREFI, it'll be a lot more important for AM5.

Really low tCL, tRCD, and tRP will matter more. If we could get DDR5-8000 28-30-30-28 running stable, that would likely do a lot more for performance than reducing tRFC slightly.


----------



## tubs2x4

T


Zero989 said:


> RTL is 64/59 for both DIMM slots


Thx for this. I’ll try this for my Samsungs.


----------



## centvalny

Test with sugi0lover settings on hynix green sticks and 0082 bios








What different in Fine Granularity Refresh mode? | bianbao.dev







bianbao.dev


----------



## 2500k_2

Arni90 said:


> That's why a lot of people are using Intel Memory Latency Checker instead


----------



## sugi0lover

[some info to share about DDR5 A-die]

Module has some serial numbers/letters here, H5CG48AGBD









This is the meaning of each number, so the 7th letter A means A-die









Basic Green stick vs Teamgroup 7200 cl34 stick
At the same 5600 & 1.10v, green stick shows better primary timings, and I don't think this tells basic green ones are better ocer.


----------



## Raphie

I think that's the configured commercial headroom (higher tolerance to prevent RMA's on borderline configs) not necessarily a chip performance difference.


----------



## z390e

@sugi0lover you able to find both the teamgroup 7200 and the H5CG48AGBD green stick for sale?


----------



## sugi0lover

z390e said:


> @sugi0lover you able to find both the teamgroup 7200 and the H5CG48AGBD green stick for sale?


Taobao still sellls green sticks at discounted price of 880 rmb per 16gb stick at the moment. Since the seller doesn't export it to the other countries, you need to find the service that buys and sends it to you. I see temgroup ones are out of stock at newegg.


https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a21dvs.23580594.0.0.1d293d0d2nR2JS&ft=t&id=680226324256


----------



## sulalin

bscool，發布：29035448，成員：571521 said:


> 你也訂購了 Oloy A 模具嗎？我很受誘惑，但是…………
> 
> 我很想知道“裝箱/XMP”A 模具套件與綠色棒相比如何。
> [/引用]
> Team Tforce 7200xmp 要強得多。OLOY M/Adie 做不到。這就像垃圾一樣。


----------



## sulalin

z390e，發布：29035537，成員：628760 said:


> @sugi0lover 你能找到teamgroup 7200和H5CG48AGBD綠棒銷售嗎？
> [/引用]Pay close attention to Newegg replenishment 7200xmp in these 3.4 days!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 這3.4天關注！ [ Newegg補貨7200xmp ]


----------



## skullbringer

sugi0lover said:


> [some info to share about DDR5 A-die]
> 
> Module has some serial numbers/letters here, H5CG48AGBD
> View attachment 2573394
> 
> 
> This is the meaning of each number, so the 7th letter A means A-die
> View attachment 2573395
> 
> 
> Basic Green stick vs Teamgroup 7200 cl34 stick
> At the same 5600 & 1.10v, green stick shows better primary timings, and I don't think this tells basic green ones are better ocer.
> View attachment 2573397


where did you get the ddr5 partnumber decoder from hynix if I may ask? thanks already for the screenshot, finally confirmation


----------



## sugi0lover

skullbringer said:


> where did you get the ddr5 partnumber decoder from hynix if I may ask? thanks already for the screenshot, finally confirmation


I got it from my friend who is a professional overclocker.


----------



## 2500k_2

skullbringer said:


> where did you get the ddr5 partnumber decoder from hynix if I may ask? thanks already for the screenshot, finally confirmation


Read the Hynix datasheets. Everything's there.


----------



## owikh84

Testing Hynix A-Die on a 4-dimm motherboard... Let's start with 7000, at 1.35v 

12900KS SP95 (P104/E78) - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2004
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatspreaders
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7000 32-42-42-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.35v







*


----------



## rulik006

skullbringer said:


> where did you get the ddr5 partnumber decoder from hynix if I may ask? thanks already for the screenshot, finally confirmation


Available on SK hynix, but not updated to the lastest

Here is mine guessed samsung from DDR4 to DDR5, 
Maybe will be useful for some one


----------



## J_Lab4645

bscool said:


> For sale, 2021 Apex. Must use sledge hammer to install chA/slot 1
> 
> I still have mine Ill be sure to press extra hard next time I fire it up. Maybe post this in the Asus thread or Ill link it so others can try it.


Ha! I hear ya. But don't go play frisbee golf with that Apex just yet. It's worth a shot. I was finagling with that slot all afternoon last week. Wiggling that stick of ram, running memchecks until it was perfectly seated. I could not believe it when the built in UEFI memtest86 just kept going....and finally turned to a GREEN "PASS" at the end. For the last 9 months pulling my hair out changing SA, VDD, VDDQ, MC V, Fast Boot, Mrc Full check, Blah, Blah, blah, bios bullsh+t and all along the stick wasn't making "perfect" contact. Unbelievable!


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> teamgroup delta 7200mhz XMP CL 34-4242-84 1.4V OC 7800 36 45 45 76 1.35V RUNMEMTESTPRO 7
> View attachment 2573312
> 
> 
> teamgroup delta 7200mhz


z790 hero 水啦

所以hynix裸條(a die)跟delta 7200在超頻上有什麼分別//delta 7200有什麼超頻優勢?


----------



## asdkj1740

that 7800mhz on 4 dimm hero, is running at 1.35v only................
super bin





十銓DDR5-7200XMP CL34-4242-84 1.4V_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


十銓DDR5 7200XMP CL34 4242 84 1.4V 不要再被台灣無良廠商OLOY 跟 專薛大陸人錢的某大 合作的什麼MPOWER騙了!!!!! MDIE OLOY6200 還被騙不夠 ADIE一起湊來騙!!!!!!! 鹹魚一組1500R海力士ADIE普條 8400/8500空冷雙通不放參數隨便開 OLOY一組32XX 29XX的 不就最少要能開 8800雙通 >, 视频播放量 1913、弹幕量 1、点赞数 16、投硬币枚数 8、收藏人数 6、转发人数 7, 视频作者 OCHIANG, 作者简介...




www.bilibili.com


----------



## Zero989

owikh84 said:


> Testing Hynix A-Die on a 4-dimm motherboard... Let's start with 7000, at 1.35v
> 
> 12900KS SP95 (P104/E78) - Stock
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2004
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatspreaders
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7000 32-42-42-28-2T
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.35V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.35v
> View attachment 2573407
> *


Is this actually stable in games or is it just for show?


----------



## sulalin

Investigate how to get a higher memory score...


----------



## Zero989

tubs2x4 said:


> T
> 
> Thx for this. I’ll try this for my Samsungs.


Will post new timings soon, trying to get to 46.xns...

Edit - got 46.xns!!!


----------



## CreasiicK

Pre order available guys, release date 10/6/2022
Check this out on @Newegg: Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01
Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com


----------



## sugi0lover

Zero989 said:


> Will post new timings soon, trying to get to 46.xns...
> 
> Edit - got 46.xns!!!
> 
> View attachment 2573481


sory but your bclk 116.2 = aida64 bench performance bug 
hope this bug got fixed since many people believe the performance is real even when they use bclk oc~


----------



## Zero989

sugi0lover said:


> sory but your bclk 116.2 = aida64 bench performance bug
> hope this bug got fixed since many people believe the performance is real even when they use bclk oc~


Not seeing how the latency is fake. Write gives out something wrong like 113,000+ MB/sec and copy is around 106K, also wrong. Read peaked at 103,000+. I also use CMD --> winsat mem to detect memory improvements.

The gains are real, detectable in WinRAR 26,300 kb/sec, GB5 EVGA Corp. Z690 CLASSIFIED - Geekbench Browser and 3Dmark TimeSpy CPU (11,800+).


----------



## 2500k_2

sugi0lover said:


> sory but your bclk 116.2 = aida64 bench performance bug
> hope this bug got fixed since many people believe the performance is real even when they use bclk oc~


What are the Intel mlc latency metrics on your 24/7 config?
Should somewhere measure the delay people from btslk overclocking 
Go through the whole table in the Latency tab / Not a quick test


----------



## bscool

Zero989 said:


> Not seeing how the latency is fake. Write gives out something wrong like 113,000+ MB/sec and copy is around 106K, also wrong. Read peaked at 103,000+. I also use CMD --> winsat mem to detect memory improvements.
> 
> The gains are real, detectable in WinRAR 26,300 kb/sec, GB5 EVGA Corp. Z690 CLASSIFIED - Geekbench Browser and 3Dmark TimeSpy CPU (11,800+).
> 
> View attachment 2573488


The higher the blck the more it is off BCLK overclock on ADL

You can get below 30ns latency with blck oc on z690 on Aida64

When running 100 blck IML checker is usually a little bit lower(2-4ns) than Aida64 for latency.


----------



## 2500k_2

Overclocking on bclk does not affect latency intel MLC
Latency at 100/125/140 is almost the same while maintaining approximately the same core and ring frequency + memory frequency.
What can not be said about photoworks. Unfortunately, it is also affected by bclk


Spoiler: 100

















Spoiler: 125

















Spoiler: 140


----------



## Wilco183

CreasiicK said:


> Pre order available guys, release date 10/6/2022
> Check this out on @Newegg: Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01
> Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com


I'm still seeing "Auto notify", not pre-order. 1st come, 1st serve on the 6th?


----------



## bscool

Wilco183 said:


> I'm still seeing "Auto notify", not pre-order. 1st come, 1st serve on the 6th?


They sold out quick. I had them in my cart for maybe an hour. I am waiting. But just put them in my cart to see how long they would last.

Edit it showed they wouldnt ship until 6th maybe they put them up as they get more in?

I have auto notify set up and didnt get anything I just happeneed to be on New Egg and saw them up for pre order.


----------



## z390e

sugi0lover said:


> sory but your bclk 116.2 = aida64 bench performance bug
> hope this bug got fixed since many people believe the performance is real even when they use bclk oc~


Is this the reason the #1 Hwbot score for DDR5 is so insane? This score is 2x the #2 score. This is ofc not my score.


----------



## sugi0lover

z390e said:


> Is this the reason the #1 Hwbot score for DDR5 is so insane? This score is 2x the #2 score. This is ofc not my score.


Yes, ram clock 7310 will never get that kind of performance in real 
With a-die and around 8000 bclk oc, the number can beaten easily. But that's a bug, so meaningless!


----------



## sulalin

sugi0lover said:


> 對不起，但你的 bclk 116.2 = aida64 bench 性能錯誤
> 希望這個錯誤得到修復，因為很多人認為即使他們使用 bclk oc 的性能是真實的~
> [/引用]
> 找了好久，就是這樣。





sugi0lover said:


> sory but your bclk 116.2 = aida64 bench performance bug
> hope this bug got fixed since many people believe the performance is real even when they use bclk oc~


I found it for a long time, just like this.


----------



## don1376

Any harm running my Kingston Renegades at cl30? Just finished testing my Renegades stock 6400mhz cl32 2x16 sticks @ 6800mhz cl30,40,40,28. 1.53VDD,1.47VDDQ, max temp in any test was 40.9c. Ran Karhu to 5000%, TM5, HCI Memtest Pro to 100% and AIDA for 20 mins. Then played Spiderman Remastered for about 2 and half hours and Metro Redux for 2 hours. No problems at all. I do plan on testing with Karhu to 10,000% tomorrow still. I just wanted time today to get a full suite of different tests ran before calling it a night. See what you think. Open to any suggestions on any other timings that maybe able to go lower.


----------



## sulalin

z390e，發布：29035947，成員：628760 said:


> 這就是 DDR5 排名第一的 Hwbot 得分如此瘋狂的原因嗎？這個分數是 #2 分數的 2 倍。這不是我的分數。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/引用]這是偶然發現的錯誤，覺得有趣
> ddr5-8400mhz也才這樣


----------



## sulalin

Zero989 said:


> Samsung, running almost as tight as possible. Its only weakness is trfc (447).
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573338


Samsung may need more than 7000 frequency to have a chance to delay within 50....
Of course, the Samsung frequency can also be 7400 7500MHZ, and a single root can also be 8000MHZ+
And the voltage is much lower than that from Hynix!!!!






































In fact, Samsung DDR5 has the advantage of high frequency!


----------



## z390e

yeah thanks everyone, also thanks @bscool for linking the AIDA thread where you reported it


----------



## sulalin

This is BCLK~BUG~ in AIDI64 TEST
BCLK100 ~BCLK 215~


Spoiler: BCLK~100~215~BUG


----------



## Zero989

sulalin said:


> Samsung may need more than 7000 frequency to have a chance to delay within 50....
> Of course, the Samsung frequency can also be 7400 7500MHZ, and a single root can also be 8000MHZ+
> And the voltage is much lower than that from Hynix!!!!
> View attachment 2573518
> 
> View attachment 2573519
> View attachment 2573520
> View attachment 2573521
> 
> View attachment 2573522
> 
> In fact, Samsung DDR5 has the advantage of high frequency!


Those are some nice clocks, just don't like the timings. Games don't take adv of the bandwidth except spiderman. 

My gains came from WTR_s at 1 and l at 16. (Don't see anyone running this)

Also tuned some tertiary more. 

Also cpu ring clock matters too much.


----------



## Zero989

sulalin said:


> This is BCLK~BUG~ in AIDI64 TEST
> BCLK100 ~BCLK 215~
> 
> 
> Spoiler: BCLK~100~215~BUG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573528
> 
> View attachment 2573529
> 
> View attachment 2573530
> 
> View attachment 2573531
> 
> View attachment 2573532
> 
> View attachment 2573533
> 
> View attachment 2573534
> 
> View attachment 2573535


L3 cache latency drops which explains it. What do you get in intel imc at 200+ bclk?


----------



## sulalin

Zero989 said:


> L3 cache latency drops which explains it. What do you get in intel imc at 200+ bclk?


You mean when the BCLK is running at 200+
What is the CPU IMC voltage? When I use HYNIX-MDIE, the IMC voltage is always set to AUTO / SA:AUTO / IVR TX VDDQ:AUTO /DRAM VPP:AUTO

When I overclock the memory, I only set the two voltages of DRAM VDD/VDDQ, and the others are set to AUTO.

There is no BUG problem without running AIDI64! Because except for the data of AIDI64 which has BUG, all the parameters you drive into the system are all true!!!

BCLK: 111.7 ~~ 8936MHZ


----------



## Zero989

sulalin said:


> You mean when the BCLK is running at 200+
> What is the CPU IMC voltage? When I use HYNIX-MDIE, the IMC voltage is always set to AUTO / SA:AUTO / IVR TX VDDQ:AUTO /DRAM VPP:AUTO
> 
> When I overclock the memory, I only set the two voltages of DRAM VDD/VDDQ, and the others are set to AUTO.
> 
> There is no BUG problem without running AIDI64! Because except for the data of AIDI64 which has BUG, all the parameters you drive into the system are all true!!!
> 
> BCLK: 111.7 ~~ 8936MHZ
> View attachment 2573537


I mean the intel imc gui, quick run or latency run (about 2mins to run)

I'm still sub 50


----------



## Arni90

sulalin said:


> I found it for a long time, just like this.
> View attachment 2573509


If you right-click on the Memory Read, you can change to MB/s.
AIDA64 counts 1024 MB = 1GB
Your "249.76 GB/s" is actually 255754 MB/s according to AIDA64


----------



## sulalin

Arni90，帖子：29036120，成員：189652 said:


> 如果您右鍵單擊 Memory Read，您可以更改為 MB/s。
> AIDA64 計算 1024 MB = 1GB
> 根據 AIDA64，您的“249.76 GB/s”實際上是 255754 MB/s
> [/引用]
> 所以這不是bug嗎？只要改變單位，它是正確的值嗎？如何計算延遲？


----------



## Arni90

It's a bug all right


----------



## asdkj1740

Z790 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com




sell your **** mobo now. be quick bros!!!!


----------



## Talon2016

asdkj1740 said:


> Z790 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
> 
> 
> Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gigabyte.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sell your **** mobo now. be quick bros!!!!


Already beating that with my Dark Z690 with A-Die. I'm good. I'll put my money into a 4090 and 13900K instead.


----------



## asdkj1740

Talon2016 said:


> Already beating that with my Dark Z690 with A-Die. I'm good. I'll put my money into a 4090 and 13900K instead.


whats wrong with you , why not dark z790??????????????
you dont like 14 layers PCB?


----------



## asdkj1740

z790 prices are on newegg us nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & 海力士 DDR5-ADIE 8000/8200/8266MHZ
GB3 內存分數：158XX 158XX 158XX
沒有新玩具可玩...那就每天進步一點...50分以上
BIOS:2004U15 SP:79 WIN10 PRO 22H2
[劇透="GB3 8000/8200/8266MHZ"]















































[/劇透]


----------



## rulik006

sulalin said:


> Samsung may need more than 7000 frequency to have a chance to delay within 50....
> Of course, the Samsung frequency can also be 7400 7500MHZ, and a single root can also be 8000MHZ+
> And the voltage is much lower than that from Hynix!!!
> In fact, Samsung DDR5 has the advantage of high frequency!


Where you got this binned Samsung?
Had two kits of samsung: corsair 4800 and G.skill 5600
They nowhere near to this results

Can anyone here achieve stable 6800 with samsung B-die?


----------



## sulalin

rulik006 said:


> Where you got this binned Samsung?
> Had two kits of samsung: corsair 4800 and G.skill 5600
> They nowhere near to this results
> 
> Can anyone here achieve stable 6800 with samsung B-die?


This Samsung green is a DDR5-4800 16G*2 co-branded with ASUS. I bought it in Japan after the 12th generation CPU and DDR5 were launched in November last year. I didn’t know I couldn’t buy a Hynix IC, only Micron and Samsung. I bought two sets in Japan. A total of about $900 was very, very expensive at the time~

This SAMSUNG & ASUS co-branded PCB is V07~ It is different from the general green PCB made by Samsung which is V05

Now this kind of thing is available in China within a group of 1000 RMB in the second-hand market....


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

asdkj1740 said:


> whats wrong with you , why not dark z790??????????????
> you dont like 14 layers PCB?


I'll trade up if they do come out with it.

Also I will get one of the new top memory kits.

I have a good question I haven't seen asked yet. What changed to make the new memory chips better than the current m die ones?


----------



## skullbringer

So I tried again yesterday to stabilize my hynix oem a-die modules on the '22 Apex with 2004 bios... 

can't even get 7200 cl36 1.4 stable, it always spews out a bunch of errors after a minute in tm5, sometimes even just freezes after memory training with white LED and qcode 7F

it's not temp related, there is a fan on the modules. same modules do 7466cl34 stable on ux and dark

so what's the magic on apex?


----------



## bscool

skullbringer said:


> So I tried again yesterday to stabilize my hynix oem a-die modules on the '22 Apex with 2004 bios...
> 
> can't even get 7200 cl36 1.4 stable, it always spews out a bunch of errors after a minute in tm5, sometimes even just freezes after memory training with white LED and qcode 7F
> 
> it's not temp related, there is a fan on the modules. same modules do 7466cl34 stable on ux and dark
> 
> so what's the magic on apex?


Have you tried bios 1720? I saw someone on Hwbot discord said they tried 5 differnt bioses and they finally got them working with 1720.

Edit @sugi0lover posted results using 1701 and 1720


----------



## sugi0lover

skullbringer said:


> So I tried again yesterday to stabilize my hynix oem a-die modules on the '22 Apex with 2004 bios...
> 
> can't even get 7200 cl36 1.4 stable, it always spews out a bunch of errors after a minute in tm5, sometimes even just freezes after memory training with white LED and qcode 7F
> 
> it's not temp related, there is a fan on the modules. same modules do 7466cl34 stable on ux and dark
> 
> so what's the magic on apex?


Same here with 2004 bios. The reason was trfc. I had to loose it a lot than with 1720 bios. Set it auto and see if it works.


----------



## owikh84

skullbringer said:


> So I tried again yesterday to stabilize my hynix oem a-die modules on the '22 Apex with 2004 bios...
> 
> can't even get 7200 cl36 1.4 stable, it always spews out a bunch of errors after a minute in tm5, sometimes even just freezes after memory training with white LED and qcode 7F
> 
> it's not temp related, there is a fan on the modules. same modules do 7466cl34 stable on ux and dark
> 
> so what's the magic on apex?


On the 2022 Z690 Extreme 2004 BIOS, I'm now testing air-cooled A-die at 7200 34-42-42-28-2T @ 1.375v, so far TM5 always getting errors at about 15 mins. tCWL = 28 allows me to pass longer until it errors out at 40 mins.


----------



## asdkj1740

skullbringer said:


> So I tried again yesterday to stabilize my hynix oem a-die modules on the '22 Apex with 2004 bios...
> 
> can't even get 7200 cl36 1.4 stable, it always spews out a bunch of errors after a minute in tm5, sometimes even just freezes after memory training with white LED and qcode 7F
> 
> it's not temp related, there is a fan on the modules. same modules do 7466cl34 stable on ux and dark
> 
> so what's the magic on apex?


two faces apex!!!


----------



## asdkj1740

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I'll trade up if they do come out with it.
> 
> Also I will get one of the new top memory kits.
> 
> I have a good question I haven't seen asked yet. What changed to make the new memory chips better than the current m die ones?


it is not better in terms of timings tighteness at the same frequency. a die is worse.
but a die stresses the cpu imc much less. you can see on 4 dimm mobo a die flies like an angel, it is because 4 dimm mobo (2dimm setup) requires much stronger imc than 2dimm mobo does.


i have also heard, dram vendors are developing new PCB design, the PCB of hynix a die kit is not reference design either. 
we shall see what dram vendors can do in the future to justify the markup over hynix a die kit other than warranty.


----------



## QXE

sulalin said:


> Samsung may need more than 7000 frequency to have a chance to delay within 50....
> Of course, the Samsung frequency can also be 7400 7500MHZ, and a single root can also be 8000MHZ+
> And the voltage is much lower than that from Hynix!!!!
> View attachment 2573518
> 
> View attachment 2573519
> View attachment 2573520
> View attachment 2573521
> 
> View attachment 2573522
> 
> In fact, Samsung DDR5 has the advantage of high frequency!


yeah but S16B you need to bin from so many sticks to do anything high frequency stable.


----------



## Talon2016

7400 CL32 SK Hynix OEM A-Die on Dark. 13900% coverage in hype of 13900K I ordered.


----------



## nickolp1974

asdkj1740 said:


> z790 prices are on newegg us nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


not cheap for us in the uk converting those prices especially the hero, supported mem speeds arn't great for it with that line up neither. MSI delivering with there mid range boards


----------



## sulalin

nickolp1974 said:


> not cheap for us in the uk converting those prices especially the hero, supported mem speeds arn't great for it with that line up neither. MSI delivering with there mid range boards


13th generation CPU + Z790 HERO + T-FORCE DDR5-XMP-7200
It can easily pass the RUNMEMTEST 7.0 test with 7600 7800MHZ 1.35~1.4V and more than 500% of the test can be opened with double 8000MHZ, which has subverted my concept of using two memory for 4DIMM board!


----------



## Talon2016

sulalin said:


> 13th generation CPU + Z790 HERO + T-FORCE DDR5-XMP-7200
> It can easily pass the RUNMEMTEST 7.0 test with 7600 7800MHZ 1.35~1.4V and more than 500% of the test can be opened with double 8000MHZ, which has subverted my concept of using two memory for 4DIMM board!


Is that because of 13th gen CPU, the memory kit, or the board?


----------



## sulalin

Talon2016，發布：29036659，成員：491116 said:


> 是因為第13代CPU、內存套件還是主板？
> [/引用]
> CPU IMC比較強！！！主板BIOS優化和整體調整，當然內存也差
> TFORCE的ADIE體質非常好。每組必須有4DIMM板和7800MHZ壓測才能發貨！！！這個是從 MDIE DDR5-6400XMP 中挑選出來的
> [/引用]ROG Z790 HERO


----------



## Talon2016

> CPU IMC is relatively strong! ! ! Motherboard BIOS optimization and overall adjustment, of course, the memory is also poor
> TFORCE's ADIE physique is very good. Each group must have 4DIMM board and 7800MHZ pressure test to ship! ! ! This one is selected from MDIE DDR5-6400XMP


Sorry I guess I'm misunderstanding a bit. Are you saying the new TeamGroup 7200 CL34 are A-Die and that they must pass 7800 before shipment?


----------



## asdkj1740

Talon2016 said:


> Sorry I guess I'm misunderstanding a bit. Are you saying the new TeamGroup 7200 CL34 are A-Die and that they must pass 7800 before shipment?


7800 passed ON A FOUR DIMM MOBO.


----------



## asdkj1740

i have been seeing some rumor about there is no m15a.
it is false. but sadly the upcoming m15a is y0 lmao.
one good news, this time it would be priced very close to hero, no more >100usd markup like the MSRP differential between m14h and m14a.


----------



## iambic

.


----------



## owikh84

12900KS SP95 (P104/E78) - Stock
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2004
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatspreaders
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7200 34-42-42-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.375V | SA 1.25v (Auto) | MC 1.375v*


----------



## asdkj1740

"no need **** Timing ADIE, MDIE is the best"
that's too rude!


----------



## Talon2016

Should be A-Die? Just got delivered.


----------



## asdkj1740

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2573854
> 
> Should be A-Die? Just got delivered.


the latest hwinfo can show the die revision, if dram vendors have it filled in correctly in the spd.


----------



## z390e

let us know @Talon2016 was gonna pull the trigger on this last night on Amazon but saw the seller had awful ratings so held off


----------



## Talon2016

They are A-Die. HWInfo64 does not say A-Die specifically, but 7400 CL32 booted with my previous Green PCB A-Die timings/voltages. 

The XMP profile loaded up with 7400 CL34 instead of 7200 at default voltages of 1.4v VDD/1.3 VDDQ. Testing that now. 

SPD stepping is 1.2, same as my A-Die Greens.


----------



## IronAge

More A-Die Kits to come, from Gigabyte Z790 Master QVL.


----------



## Simkin

sulalin said:


> 13th generation CPU + Z790 HERO + T-FORCE DDR5-XMP-7200
> It can easily pass the RUNMEMTEST 7.0 test with 7600 7800MHZ 1.35~1.4V and more than 500% of the test can be opened with double 8000MHZ, which has subverted my concept of using two memory for 4DIMM board!


Might just go for the Z790 Hero then, the Z790 Apex im sure will cost 1200-1300$ as the Z790 is already priced at almost 950 here in Norway.

My Sh***y Z690 Apex can barely pass 6000Mhz.


----------



## owikh84

Talon2016 said:


> They are A-Die. HWInfo64 does not say A-Die specifically, but 7400 CL32 booted with my previous Green PCB A-Die timings/voltages.
> 
> The XMP profile loaded up with 7400 CL34 instead of 7200 at default voltages of 1.4v VDD/1.3 VDDQ. Testing that now.
> 
> SPD stepping is 1.2, same as my A-Die Greens.


What's the PMIC? Can you set and boot at higher than 1.435v?


----------



## asdkj1740

Talon2016 said:


> They are A-Die. HWInfo64 does not say A-Die specifically, but 7400 CL32 booted with my previous Green PCB A-Die timings/voltages.
> 
> The XMP profile loaded up with 7400 CL34 instead of 7200 at default voltages of 1.4v VDD/1.3 VDDQ. Testing that now.
> 
> SPD stepping is 1.2, same as my A-Die Greens.


would you please show us some screencap of hwinfo64 like below ? thank you.


----------



## sulalin

The DDR5 memory world record that TEAM GROUP got this year is 9 times. Once MDIE DDR5-XMP6400 was set by me~~~ 8 times ADIE is a sample produced by TEAM GROUP, a total of 9 times breaking the world record!!!


----------



## QXE

sulalin said:


> The DDR5 memory world record that TEAM GROUP got this year is 9 times. Once MDIE DDR5-XMP6400 was set by me~~~ 8 times ADIE is a sample produced by TEAM GROUP, a total of 9 times breaking the world record!!!
> View attachment 2573879


We need to get some LN2 on the oloy/MPower sticks for some spicy numbers.


----------



## Talon2016

asdkj1740 said:


> would you please show us some screencap of hwinfo64 like below ? thank you.
> View attachment 2573876


----------



## asdkj1740

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2573880


thank you!


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> The DDR5 memory world record that TEAM GROUP got this year is 9 times. Once MDIE DDR5-XMP6400 was set by me~~~ 8 times ADIE is a sample produced by TEAM GROUP, a total of 9 times breaking the world record!!!
> View attachment 2573879


opps, isn't msi using KINGSTON kit to break that record?
gigabyte aorus kit for gigabyte?

only asus recognizes that and give back the credit to "teamgroup".


----------



## asdkj1740

Simkin said:


> Might just go for the Z790 Hero then, the Z790 Apex im sure will cost 1200-1300$ as the Z790 is already priced at almost 950 here in Norway.
> 
> My Sh***y Z690 Apex can barely pass 6000Mhz.


maybe you should wait until m15a is out, then ask for rma so that this time asus wont offer m14h as replacement because m14a is already eol.


----------



## sulalin

asdkj1740 said:


> 對了，msi 不是在用 KINGSTON 套件打破這個記錄嗎？
> 技嘉的技嘉aorus套件？
> 
> 只有華碩認識到這一點並將功勞歸還給“teamgroup”。
> [/引用]
> 這都是團隊製造的記憶。他們私下改成了金士頓和技嘉的SPD。後來被英特爾糾正，全部回到英特爾的spd！


----------



## sulalin

QXE said:


> 我們需要在 oloy/MPower 棒上放一些 LN2 以獲得一些辛辣的數字。
> [/引用]
> 它真的很強大。冷的話就很厲害了！OLOY MDie 挑不出一個像樣的來讓 MSI 打破記錄。它必須等到石泉去世才能打破記錄。太搞笑了😆


----------



## QXE

who tf is shiquan


----------



## sulalin

QXE said:


> 我們需要在 oloy/MPower 棒上放一些 LN2 以獲得一些辛辣的數字。
> [/引用]
> 先用MPOWER空冷跑三個條空冷跑的頻率出來吧！


----------



## Ketku-

Simkin said:


> Might just go for the Z790 Hero then, the Z790 Apex im sure will cost 1200-1300$ as the Z790 is already priced at almost 950 here in Norway.
> 
> My Sh***y Z690 Apex can barely pass 6000Mhz.


Mate. 
Z790 apex wont coming  Only Extreme/Hero high end Asus boards.


----------



## sulalin

Ketku-，帖子：29037419，成員：650168 said:


> 伴侶。
> Z790 apex 不會出現 只有 Extreme/Hero 高端華碩主板。
> [/引用]
> 在互聯網上捕獲的圖片可以在任何地方找到


----------



## QXE

sulalin said:


> Pictures captured on the Internet can be found anywhere
> View attachment 2573884


are there any pictures with better timings.

Edit: what voltages were used for 8000c36? (VDD, VDDQ, IVR VDDQTX, VCCSA, IMC VDD)


----------



## sulalin

QXE said:


> 有沒有時間更好的照片。
> 
> 編輯：8000c36 使用了什麼電壓？（VDD、VDDQ、IVR VDDQTX、VCCSA、IMC VDD）
> [/引用]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> z790 hero


----------



## QXE

This is for 7800c36, what did 8000c36 need.


----------



## satinghostrider

Ketku- said:


> Mate.
> Z790 apex wont coming  Only Extreme/Hero high end Asus boards.


Are you VERY sure Z790 Apex won't be coming?


----------



## Zer0_Dan

A die is crazy


----------



## centvalny

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2573880


Richtek pmic secure mode disabled


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## sulalin

別再造謠了！！！這是Z690 apex


----------



## sulalin

Zer0_Dan，帖子：29037438，成員：677077 said:


> 死是瘋了
> 
> View attachment 2573898
> 
> 
> View attachment 2573899
> 
> [/引用]
> MSI UNIFY I 能開出8200/8266/8400/8533MHZ？
> [劇透=“8000/8200/8266/8400/8533”]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/劇透]


----------



## Ketku-

satinghostrider said:


> Are you VERY sure Z790 Apex won't be coming?


Atm cant find anywhere, so thats why i say it. Only Extreme/Hero can find high end boards. Give me Z790 apex link


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> Stop making rumours!!! This is the Z790 APEX
> View attachment 2573902


how far can m15a go over m15h, if a die is used.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ketku- said:


> Atm cant find anywhere, so thats why i say it. Only Extreme/Hero can find high end boards. Give me Z790 apex link


NDA, dude. NDA. Stop being selfish. Wait like everyone else.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

You guys that get this early stuff are rude to people I've noticed. Not all of you but two or three of you are very disrespectful. Makes me wonder why they send you this stuff to promote their product if you're always insulting people. 

On subject, I can't wait to snag some a die for my dark.


----------



## asdkj1740

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> You guys that get this early stuff are rude to people I've noticed. Not all of you but two or three of you are very disrespectful. Makes me wonder why they send you this stuff to promote their product if you're always insulting people.
> 
> On subject, I can't wait to snag some a die for my dark.


disrespectful how...?


----------



## Ketku-

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> You guys that get this early stuff are rude to people I've noticed. Not all of you but two or three of you are very disrespectful. Makes me wonder why they send you this stuff to promote their product if you're always insulting people.
> 
> On subject, I can't wait to snag some a die for my dark.


I have noticed the same thing many times, that nobody is respected here but kings. That's why I said Apex doesn't seem to exist, since I haven't seen it for sale anywhere, that doesn't mean it won't come. I was just wondering why it wasn't released at the same time as Extreme/Hero. Sometimes the Forum doesn't feel like writing anything when there are rude or arrogant answers.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Ketku- said:


> I have noticed the same thing many times, that nobody is respected here but kings. That's why I said Apex doesn't seem to exist, since I haven't seen it for sale anywhere, that doesn't mean it won't come. I was just wondering why it wasn't released at the same time as Extreme/Hero. Sometimes the Forum doesn't feel like writing anything when there are rude or arrogant answers.


Yep. Killing the camaraderie doesn't help the community at all.


----------



## warbucks

Ketku- said:


> I have noticed the same thing many times, that nobody is respected here but kings. That's why I said Apex doesn't seem to exist, since I haven't seen it for sale anywhere, that doesn't mean it won't come. I was just wondering why it wasn't released at the same time as Extreme/Hero. Sometimes the Forum doesn't feel like writing anything when there are rude or arrogant answers.


No one is being rude. People are asking a question they can get the answer for if they did a simple google search. ASUS already said the Z790 Apex was coming and more info would be released soon. The folks who get hardware early are bound by NDAs which means they are legally bound and can't say anything about it. Everyone is so impatient nowadays.


----------



## Talon2016

A-Die lets even my ****ty Asrock Z690 Velocita PG 4dimm board boot 7000 CL34, will see how far I can push it since I've only just started messing with it. Previously M-Die was only good for 6400 on this board. A-Die is crazy stuff for sure.


----------



## 673714

warbucks said:


> No one is being rude. People are asking a question they can get the answer for if they did a simple google search. ASUS already said the Z790 Apex was coming and more info would be released soon. The folks who get hardware early are bound by NDAs which means they are legally bound and can't say anything about it. Everyone is so impatient nowadays.


Let me go ahead and explain for people who do not know. NDA stands for "Non-Disclosure Agreement". Basically it means they have to keep everything a secret unless the supplier says otherwise, and if they don't, they can be taken to court for damages. Do not insist a tester is rude, they have to keep their mouth shut to protect their butt


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> A-Die lets even my ****ty Asrock Z690 Velocita PG 4dimm board boot 7000 CL34, will see how far I can push it since I've only just started messing with it. Previously M-Die was only good for 6400 on this board. A-Die is crazy stuff for sure.


Did you compare the bandwidth, latency and FPS improvement in a decent CPU bound games like SOTTR (if you own it) at 1280x720 and minimum graphics detail?
A-die is optimized for high clocks but the tRFC is hot garbage.


----------



## QXE

LilOliVert said:


> Let me go ahead and explain for people who do not know. NDA stands for "Non-Disclosure Agreement". Basically it means they have to keep everything a secret unless the supplier says otherwise, and if they don't, they can be taken to court for damages. Do not insist a tester is rude, they have to keep their mouth shut to protect their butt


yep


----------



## qc_armbender

Are there any Hynix based GSkill DDR5 kits currently available, or are they all Samsung? I don't trust the Asus QVL.


----------



## Nizzen

qc_armbender said:


> Are there any Hynix based GSkill DDR5 kits currently available, or are they all Samsung? I don't trust the Asus QVL.


All 6400/6600 and 6000c30.
I have g.skill 6400 and 6000c30 myself.


----------



## qc_armbender

Nizzen said:


> All 6400/6600 and 6000c30.
> I have g.skill 6400 and 6000c30 myself.


Which did your Apex like the best?


----------



## Nizzen

qc_armbender said:


> Which did you Apex like the best?


6000c30, my best bin of m-die hynix. Had 14 different kits of hynix m-die.


----------



## qc_armbender

Nizzen said:


> 6000c30, my best bin of m-die hynix. Had 14 different kits of hynix m-die.


You're the man! Thank you!


----------



## qc_armbender

Nizzen said:


> 6000c30, my best bin of m-die hynix. Had 14 different kits of hynix m-die.


You recall which kit it was? F5-6000J3040F16GX2-TZ5RK or F5-6000J3040F16GA2-TZ5RK
They both Hynix?


----------



## Nizzen

qc_armbender said:


> You recall which kit it was? F5-6000J3040F16GX2-TZ5RK or F5-6000J3040F16GA2-TZ5RK
> They both Hynix?


Both hynix


----------



## Agent-A01

Yesterday I swapped my apex no production date, M0AAY0 with a 2021 Nov. date, the problematic M0EAY0. Bought it off amazon listed as new but this board was clearly a used/return/refurb.
Fingerprints plus IO plastic had hair/fibers all over it. 

With that being known, I decided to spend time comparing the boards behavior with DDR5. I also borrowed another 12900K CPU(SP90) from a buddy that he had lapped for testing.

Using G.Skill 6400C32 kit, the M0AAY0 board was not stable on the borrowed 12900K with XMP. Lots of errors in memtests. To stabilize it required additional IMC VDD( 1.2 > 1.3).
After that, I was also able to stabilize 6400 CL28-37-37-30 1T and tight tertiary timings without too much trouble(tm5, memtest pro).

Above 6400 was impossible to stabilize. I started at 6800 and It acted like it was almost stable but then it would act like it was extremely unstable on a reboot with a tiny change of voltage.
I got to the point where I only get 1 or 2 errors on 100% test run of memtest pro; adding .01v to VCCSA would cause dozens of errors within a min on the next run.
Even reverting that voltage change wouldn't bring back the stability it had before.

Going down to 6600 would still have this weird behavior. Y-cruncher was impossible to pass above 6400 as well. No combination of voltages or relaxed timings would help. So that's when I bought the second board.

Anyways, onto the M0EAY0 board. I used my original CPU (SP89) plus the same memory kit to see how the two acted differently.

The same 64001T profile from the last combo was 100% stable on this board. In fact, I quickly learned that this combination was able to test 6800 with no issues at all.
Once I found out the required voltages to run 6800 with relaxed primary timings, I dialed in them to the minimum floor(IMC VDD, IVR TX, VDD etc) of stability.

I was also able to lower timings to 30-40-40-30 and stabilize it with 1.55VDD 1.5VDDQ. 

With this new found information I figured maybe my buddies SP90 chip has a worse IMC.
I threw my SP89 into my M0AAY0 and observed different behavior. XMP was stable with this CPU whereas the other SP90 isn't. But alas, the odd behavior above 6400 remains.

After that, I tried my buddies SP90 chip in the used amazon board. Extremely unstable. Hundreds of errors in memtestpro. Would also freeze/bsod randomly.

It took a while but to gain (not perfect)stability this chip required > 1.4 IMC VDD and 1.5~ VDDQ TX.
My SP89 chip only requires around 1.28~ IMC VDD and 1.4 VDDQ TX to stabilize 6800 30-40-40-30.

Obviously this shows a huge discrepancy in IMC quality. 
Also one important thing to note. The 'bad' IMC would only pass y-cruncher 1 out of 3 times on whereas my SP89 would pass every time(on the good board)

So in the end, I yanked out my original Apex board and installed the used/return amazon board.

Now I am running a stable 6800 setup with decently tight timings(will dial in a little more)

















There were reports that the nov 2021 boards were all worse but that's not true. There's probably a lot of good boards that people return without testing.

Sorry for the long text wall but TLDR:

1. Bad Nov 2021 boards can be good(or better than early batches).
2. People who think they have bad boards may be good and their problem is a weak CPU IMC.
3. The inverse of that, good CPU + bad motherboard will also be limited in max frequency.
4. Rip the people that have bad CPU IMC and bad apex. I imagine those that can't even do 6000 are among those who are affected.

Anyways, after I finalize my 6800 tertiaries, I'll try 7000 next, though I'm probably close to the limit of m-die. 
Mine errors out above 52c with my trc/trefi settings.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Agent-A01 said:


> Yesterday I swapped my apex no production date, M0AAY0 with a 2021 Nov. date, the problematic M0EAY0. Bought it off amazon listed as new but this board was clearly a used/return/refurb.
> Fingerprints plus IO plastic had hair/fibers all over it.
> 
> With that being known, I decided to spend time comparing the boards behavior with DDR5. I also borrowed another 12900K CPU(SP90) from a buddy that he had lapped for testing.
> 
> Using G.Skill 6400C32 kit, the M0AAY0 board was not stable on the borrowed 12900K with XMP. Lots of errors in memtests. To stabilize it required additional IMC VDD( 1.2 > 1.3).
> After that, I was also able to stabilize 6400 CL28-37-37-30 1T and tight tertiary timings without too much trouble(tm5, memtest pro).
> 
> Above 6400 was impossible to stabilize. I started at 6800 and It acted like it was almost stable but then it would act like it was extremely unstable on a reboot with a tiny change of voltage.
> I got to the point where I only get 1 or 2 errors on 100% test run of memtest pro; adding .01v to VCCSA would cause dozens of errors within a min on the next run.
> Even reverting that voltage change wouldn't bring back the stability it had before.
> 
> Going down to 6600 would still have this weird behavior. Y-cruncher was impossible to pass above 6400 as well. No combination of voltages or relaxed timings would help. So that's when I bought the second board.
> 
> Anyways, onto the M0EAY0 board. I used my original CPU (SP89) plus the same memory kit to see how the two acted differently.
> 
> The same 64001T profile from the last combo was 100% stable on this board. In fact, I quickly learned that this combination was able to test 6800 with no issues at all.
> Once I found out the required voltages to run 6800 with relaxed primary timings, I dialed in them to the minimum floor(IMC VDD, IVR TX, VDD etc) of stability.
> 
> I was also able to lower timings to 30-40-40-30 and stabilize it with 1.55VDD 1.5VDDQ.
> 
> With this new found information I figured maybe my buddies SP90 chip has a worse IMC.
> I threw my SP89 into my M0AAY0 and observed different behavior. XMP was stable with this CPU whereas the other SP90 isn't. But alas, the odd behavior above 6400 remains.
> 
> After that, I tried my buddies SP90 chip in the used amazon board. Extremely unstable. Hundreds of errors in memtestpro. Would also freeze/bsod randomly.
> 
> It took a while but to gain (not perfect)stability this chip required > 1.4 IMC VDD and 1.5~ VDDQ TX.
> My SP89 chip only requires around 1.28~ IMC VDD and 1.4 VDDQ TX to stabilize 6800 30-40-40-30.
> 
> Obviously this shows a huge discrepancy in IMC quality.
> Also one important thing to note. The 'bad' IMC would only pass y-cruncher 1 out of 3 times on whereas my SP89 would pass every time(on the good board)
> 
> So in the end, I yanked out my original Apex board and installed the used/return amazon board.
> 
> Now I am running a stable 6800 setup with decently tight timings(will dial in a little more)
> 
> View attachment 2574023
> View attachment 2574024
> 
> 
> There were reports that the nov 2021 boards were all worse but that's not true. There's probably a lot of good boards that people return without testing.
> 
> Sorry for the long text wall but TLDR:
> 
> 1. Bad Nov 2021 boards can be good(or better than early batches).
> 2. People who think they have bad boards may be good and their problem is a weak CPU IMC.
> 3. The inverse of that, good CPU + bad motherboard will also be limited in max frequency.
> 4. Rip the people that have bad CPU IMC and bad apex. I imagine those that can't even do 6000 are among those who are affected.
> 
> Anyways, after I finalize my 6800 tertiaries, I'll try 7000 next, though I'm probably close to the limit of m-die.
> Mine errors out above 52c with my trc/trefi settings.


Interesting. What is more interesting is A-DIE in weak board or even with weak IMC, since it needs less voltage.


----------



## acoustic

Ordered IceManCooler RAM heatsinks and their waterblock.. hopefully once I get rid of this 12700K, I'll be able to open up my Kingston kit.


----------



## IronAge

Agent-A01 said:


> Anyways, after I finalize my 6800 tertiaries, I'll try 7000 next, though I'm probably close to the limit of m-die.


most likely you will hit the wall of your 2021 Apex, some been able to do 6933.

my 2021 Apex crapped out at 6666, it would not even post with 6800 any more.

sold it for 400$, gotto love that.


----------



## gecko991

Just got a set of Gskill 6400 and have a 2021 Apex running Corsair Dom Plat currently at 6400 cl32, hoping to squeeze a little more out of the Gskill we shall see.


----------



## sulalin

sulalin，發布：29037427，成員：671274 said:


> [/引用]





Agent-A01 said:


> Yesterday I swapped my apex no production date, M0AAY0 with a 2021 Nov. date, the problematic M0EAY0. Bought it off amazon listed as new but this board was clearly a used/return/refurb.
> Fingerprints plus IO plastic had hair/fibers all over it.
> 
> With that being known, I decided to spend time comparing the boards behavior with DDR5. I also borrowed another 12900K CPU(SP90) from a buddy that he had lapped for testing.
> 
> Using G.Skill 6400C32 kit, the M0AAY0 board was not stable on the borrowed 12900K with XMP. Lots of errors in memtests. To stabilize it required additional IMC VDD( 1.2 > 1.3).
> After that, I was also able to stabilize 6400 CL28-37-37-30 1T and tight tertiary timings without too much trouble(tm5, memtest pro).
> 
> Above 6400 was impossible to stabilize. I started at 6800 and It acted like it was almost stable but then it would act like it was extremely unstable on a reboot with a tiny change of voltage.
> I got to the point where I only get 1 or 2 errors on 100% test run of memtest pro; adding .01v to VCCSA would cause dozens of errors within a min on the next run.
> Even reverting that voltage change wouldn't bring back the stability it had before.
> 
> Going down to 6600 would still have this weird behavior. Y-cruncher was impossible to pass above 6400 as well. No combination of voltages or relaxed timings would help. So that's when I bought the second board.
> 
> Anyways, onto the M0EAY0 board. I used my original CPU (SP89) plus the same memory kit to see how the two acted differently.
> 
> 與上一個組合相同的 64001T 配置文件在此板上是 100% 穩定的。事實上，我很快了解到這種組合能夠毫無問題地測試 6800。
> 一旦我找到了以寬鬆的主時序運行 6800 所需的電壓，我將它們調到穩定性的最低下限（IMC VDD、IVR TX、VDD 等）。
> 
> 我還能夠將時序降低到 30-40-40-30 並用 1.55VDD 1.5VDDQ 穩定它。
> 
> 有了這個新發現的信息，我想也許我的伙伴 SP90 芯片的 IMC 更差。
> 我將 SP89 扔進 M0AAY0 並觀察到不同的行為。XMP 在這個 CPU 上是穩定的，而另一個 SP90 則不是。但可惜的是，6400 以上的奇怪行為仍然存在。
> 
> 之後，我在用過的亞馬遜主板上嘗試了我的伙伴 SP90 芯片。極不穩定。memtestpro 中的數百個錯誤。也會隨機凍結/bsod。
> 
> 花了一段時間，但要獲得（不完美）穩定性，該芯片需要 > 1.4 IMC VDD 和 1.5~ VDDQ TX。
> 我的 SP89 芯片只需要 1.28~ IMC VDD 和 1.4 VDDQ TX 即可穩定 6800 30-40-40-30。
> 
> 顯然，這表明 IMC 質量存在巨大差異。
> 還有一件重要的事情要注意。“壞”的 IMC 在 3 次中只能通過 y-cruncher 1，而我的 SP89 每次都會通過（在好板上）
> 
> 所以最後，我拔出了我原來的 Apex 板並安裝了用過的/返回的亞馬遜板。
> 
> 現在我正在運行一個穩定的 6800 設置，時間相當緊湊（將撥入更多）
> 
> View attachment 2574023
> View attachment 2574024
> 
> 
> 有報導稱 2021 年 11 月的董事會都更糟，但事實並非如此。可能有很多好板子，人們在沒有測試的情況下就返回了。
> 
> 抱歉，文字牆很長，但 TLDR：
> 
> 1. 2021 年 11 月的壞板可能會好（或比早期批次更好）。
> 2.認為自己板子不好的人可能是好的，他們的問題是CPU IMC弱。
> 3. 反之，好的CPU + 壞的主板也會限制最大頻率。
> 4. 撕掉CPU IMC不好，apex不好的人。我想那些連6000都做不到的人是受影響的人之一。
> 
> 無論如何，在我完成了我的 6800 tertiaries 之後，我接下來會嘗試 7000，儘管我可能已經接近 m-die 的極限。
> 使用我的 trc/trefi 設置將錯誤解決在 52c 以上。
> [/引用]SP79 22 年 APEX DDR5 6400 MDIE No lock voltage
> 
> 
> Spoiler: NEO FORZA DDR5-6400 MDIE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5-5600鎖定電壓
> 
> 
> Spoiler: NEO FORZA DDR5-5600 MDIE


----------



## CptSpig

I received my green A-Die sticks yesterday! I just installed them with the Supercool Water blocks. I ran TM5 for about 10 minutes temperature never got above 30c. I updated bios to 1720 and overclocked my CPU. Now it's time to play with the A-Die.


Spoiler: Ram Block


----------



## affxct

What's up with the Z790 Carbon supporting 7600MT/s+? Do they mean A-die or what?


----------



## LazyGamer

affxct said:


> What's up with the Z790 Carbon supporting 7600MT/s+? Do they mean A-die or what?


If someone is able to run Samsung ICs at that speed, we'll probably be the first ones to know


----------



## Agent-A01

tibcsi0407 said:


> Interesting. What is more interesting is A-DIE in weak board or even with weak IMC, since it needs less voltage.


 Who knows but it's possible. Increased VDD/VDDQ may cause worse clock scaling on bad apex boards.

I'd like to see a-die + 13900K on a bad apex to see if it changes behavior.


----------



## Nizzen

Anyone tried 4x ddr5 on x670 yet?
Trying now, and it takes FOREVER to boot 😅 

6000c30 x4 failed. Wait 5 min 🤣


----------



## owikh84

While I managed to stabilize my Hynix A-die 84N (214A chips, locked MPS PMIC) up to 7200c32 on Z690 Extreme (2022, BIOS 2004), I'm facing difficulty stabilizing my 81N sticks (224A chips, unlocked Renesas PMIC). The 81N can't stable at 7000c32 with even loose tRFC and tREFI.


----------



## Gen.

Hi all. I joined the Z690 Dark camp.
Poor quality processor. I'm waiting for 13900K.
Starting 7200 is not possible...


----------



## rent0n

Gen. said:


> Hi all. I joined the Z690 Dark camp.
> Poor quality processor. I'm waiting for 13900K.
> Starting 7200 is not possible...


Have you played with cpu vddq and the pmic turbo modes? Try something like 1.25-1.3V cpu vddq and mode 4 on bios 1.12. A slight bump to vpp up to 1.9-2V might help a little and for vdd you most probably need to go above 1.6V. 12700k parts aren’t weak by a rule but you gotta be pretty lucky to get a good 12900k‘s imc quality or go cold


----------



## sulalin

LazyGamer，帖子：29038289，成員：663262 said:


> 如果有人能夠以這種速度運行三星IC，我們可能是第一個知道的人
> [/引用]三星IC
> 
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> 
> *都是三星IC*


----------



## sulalin

Before waiting for the arrival of Z790 APEX~ Review the performance and record of Z690 APEX in SAMSUNG IC/Hynix IC MDIE/ADIE frequency


Spoiler: z690 apex samsung ic

























Spoiler: z690 apex hynix ic mdie









































































Spoiler: z690 apex hynix ic adie


----------



## QXE

Gen. said:


> Hi all. I joined the Z690 Dark camp.
> Poor quality processor. I'm waiting for 13900K.
> Starting 7200 is not possible...


7200 needs really well binned sticks or hynix A die. Mine cant do above 7100. Others observed this behavior.


----------



## Gen.

rent0n said:


> Have you played with cpu vddq and the pmic turbo modes? Try something like 1.25-1.3V cpu vddq and mode 4 on bios 1.12. A slight bump to vpp up to 1.9-2V might help a little and for vdd you most probably need to go above 1.6V. 12700k parts aren’t weak by a rule but you gotta be pretty lucky to get a good 12900k‘s imc quality or go cold


I need bios 1.15. I have 2 sets of memory - Kingston 6000CL32 and Hynix OEM 4800 Renesas.
What gives PMIC Turbo (1-5)?

P.S. I tried 6800 1T and it worked. Don't pay too much attention to timings and voltages. The frequency/primary timings are important to me to start with. I want to achieve 6933-7000 (or 7200) 1T! SA Auto.


----------



## rent0n

Gen. said:


> I need bios 1.15. I have 2 sets of memory - Kingston 6000CL32 and Hynix OEM 4800 Renesas.
> What gives PMIC Turbo (1-5)?
> 
> P.S. I tried 6800 1T and it worked. Don't pay too much attention to timings and voltages. The frequency/primary timings are important to me to start with. I want to achieve 6933-7000 (or 7200) 1T! SA Auto.


Pmic turbo modes alter the cpu vddq as you may find it difficult to boot high cpu vddq voltage at higher frequencies manually. For me 7200 1T would only boot with at least 1.65V vdd, cpu vddq 1.25-1.3v and turbo mode 4 or 5. Only really bench stable, so it’s just for the lols.


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Anyone tried 4x ddr5 on x670 yet?
> Trying now, and it takes FOREVER to boot 😅
> 
> 6000c30 x4 failed. Wait 5 min 🤣


check out the article written by xaver on igorslab, he manages to do 6400mhz 16g*4 on asrock pro rs....


----------



## eruditeswine

Hi all!

1. Regarding locked Ring overclocking due to BIOS updates. As mentioned by @asdkj1740 and fatedust over on MSI forum, disabling BIOS\OC\Advanced CPU Configuration\CPU Under Voltage Protection unlocks Ring overclocking.

Thank you @acoustic, @affxct and again @asdkj1740.


2. How low can the following timings safely go?
A. tCWL.
Seen tCL -2 and tCL -4. On Auto, it was tCL -4. Anecdotally on Intel MLC, -4 provided higher bandwidth while -2 provided 0.2ns lower latency.

B. tWR (tWRPRE, tWRPDEN). 
For tWR: @anta777 mentioned 48, Overclockers.com's David Miller mentioned 32. Seen as low as 2.
For tWRPRE, tWRPDEN: Intel Datasheet spots 18 to 200 and 4 to 204 respectively. While Buildzoid mentioned 30 and 4 respectively. Seen formula of tWR = tWRPRE -tCWL -8.

C. tRTP (tRDPRE). 
@anta777 and a couple mentioned 12. Intel Datasheet spots 4 to 32. Buildzoid mentioned 4.

3. Also on DDR4, tWR is tRTP x2. What about DDR5? Is there still such relation? If so it is still x2 or x4?

Look forward to your guidance. Thank you and stay well all!


----------



## affxct

eruditeswine said:


> Hi all!
> 
> 1. Regarding locked Ring overclocking due to BIOS updates. As mentioned by @asdkj1740 and fatedust over on MSI forum, disabling BIOS\OC\Advanced CPU Configuration\CPU Under Voltage Protection unlocks Ring overclocking.
> 
> Thank you @acoustic, @affxct and again @asdkj1740.
> 
> 
> 2. How low can the following timings safely go?
> A. tCWL.
> Seen tCL -2 and tCL -4. On Auto, it was tCL -4. Anecdotally on Intel MLC, -4 provided higher bandwidth while -2 provided 0.2ns lower latency.
> 
> B. tWR (tWRPRE, tWRPDEN).
> For tWR: @anta777 mentioned 48, Overclockers.com's David Miller mentioned 32. Seen as low as 2.
> For tWRPRE, tWRPDEN: Intel Datasheet spots 18 to 200 and 4 to 204 respectively. While Buildzoid mentioned 30 and 4 respectively. Seen formula of tWR = tWRPRE -tCWL -8.
> 
> C. tRTP (tRDPRE).
> @anta777 and a couple mentioned 12. Intel Datasheet spots 4 to 32. Buildzoid mentioned 4.
> 
> 3. Also on DDR4, tWR is tRTP x2. What about DDR5? Is there still such relation? If so it is still x2 or x4?
> 
> Look forward to your guidance. Thank you and stay well all!


tCWL seems to be entirely IC dependent with regards to Hynix, and you can do as much as tCL-8 (or more). tRTP 6 seems to be the lower limit generally-speaking, but it can be a tricky timing to stabilize in some cases. You probably can do 4, but it just becomes a tricky timing to lower. tWR is set purely through tWRPRE and tWRPDEN, and generally you can go as low as 0 in some cases (sugi has). There is no inherent relationship with D5 timings it seems, other than the inherent mathematical affect reducing tCWL has on timings like the tWRRDs, tWRPRE, and PDEN. I.e., the lower tCWL, the higher those other timings will have to be to avoid creating crazy instability. If you for instance set 39-39 tWRPRE and PDEN, with a tCWL of like 20, you could legit end up with a theoretical negative tWR value.


----------



## asdkj1740

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/xmp-3-for-core-processors.html



highest 4 dimm mobo
z790 hero, 7466mhz

highest 2 dimm mobo
z790 apex, 7600


msi varbon lmao
msi official support up to 7600, but 7200 only by intel


----------



## acoustic

I've been testing CCM PMIC switching mode for my struggles for stability. I was curious about the difference between the DCM and CCM switching modes, so did some digging. According to DCM vs CCM specs, the continuous voltage of CCM should help with instability, and potentially help weak IMC/signal integrity issues. Response time is worse than DCM, so I increased switching freq to 1250Khz to compensate from stock 750Khz.. temps seem roughly the same and no high temp PMIC warnings.

I'm testing 6800 again after being able to tighten 6600 down to 65/64 RTLs with this new setup. Before the CCM change, I was passing Karhu at 6600 65/64 RTL, but getting background windows corruption (verified with /sfc scannow). Ran Karhu for 10hrs overnight and zero corruption. I rebooted, did full system shutdown/pulled plug, and forced retraining. Still no errors or corruption following the change.

It's certainly interesting..


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> View attachment 2574221
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/xmp-3-for-core-processors.html
> 
> 
> 
> highest 4 dimm mobo
> z790 hero, 7466mhz
> 
> highest 2 dimm mobo
> z790 apex, 7600
> 
> 
> msi varbon lmao
> msi official support up to 7600, but 7200 only by intel


First off, thank you for linking this. I guess the only take away I have is the Z690 Dark seems to be on par with the best Z790s aside from the Z790 Dark?


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> First off, thank you for linking this. I guess the only take away I have is the Z690 Dark seems to be on par with the best Z790s aside from the Z790 Dark?


i dont know, gigabyte z790 master now supports up to 7000mhz m die, compared to z690 master with 6400mhz max listed in qvl.
so new cpu can even push current m die kits further, on a 4 dimm mobo.

mobo vendors should have learnt a lot about ddr5 signals/wiring/layout, they should have come up a more mature design on new mobo.
those good ones (z690) should be fine.


----------



## asdkj1740

gskill 6600 "a20" is likely using a die.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> i dont know, gigabyte z790 master now supports up to 7000mhz m die, compared to z690 master with 6400mhz max listed in qvl.
> so new cpu can even push current m die kits further, on a 4 dimm mobo.
> 
> mobo vendors should have learnt a lot about ddr5 signals/wiring/layout, they should have come up a more mature design on new mobo.
> those good ones (z690) should be fine.


Oh yeah for sure, Z790s are great. All I'm saying is that the Z690 Dark owners shouldn't stress I don't think? Begs the question though; what the hell is the 14-layer Z790 Dark with its optimized DDR5 traces supposed to be doing? Like 8200? XD


----------



## acoustic

I'm wondering how the BIOS support will be from EVGA without Vince as a member of the company (not sure how involved Vince was with the motherboard side outside of PCB/VRM design)..


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I'm wondering how the BIOS support will be from EVGA without Vince as a member of the company (not sure how involved Vince was with the motherboard side outside of PCB/VRM design)..


Wait, he's actually off the team!?


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Wait, he's actually off the team!?


Without the GPU side and EVGA's reduction in team size, Vince left. Not much for him there if EVGA is cutting spending and reducing their presence in XOC competitions. GPUs were his primary focus and since EVGA left the GPU business.. didn't leave him with much. I don't know how involved Vince was with the motherboards outside of EVGA using his KINGPIN branding for marketing purposes.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Without the GPU side and EVGA's reduction in team size, Vince left. Not much for him there if EVGA is cutting spending and reducing their presence in XOC competitions. GPUs were his primary focus and since EVGA left the GPU business.. didn't leave him with much. I don't know how involved Vince was with the motherboards outside of EVGA using his KINGPIN branding for marketing purposes.


He has some XOC profiles on my Dark. Some very decent ones actually. If you check the marketing slide for the Z790 Dark, he has a statement on it. I think they developed the Z790 directly after they cut production for the 690, and I'm almost dead certain the 690 was a limited-production product because of the strange instant drop to $500. He was likely still there for the Z790 Dark design in that regard. The Z790 Dark and X670E Dark boards probably learn from the 690's design and just add to it with those ridiculous 14-layer 1DPC topologies and minor tweaks to traces and impedance that I personally do not understand. It seems that Luumi contributes to their RAM testing and there's another forum member who has posted on the Dark forum a few times who seems to be involved to some degree. I'm sure they'll be alright for the rest of DDR5, I hope at least.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> He has some XOC profiles on my Dark. Some very decent ones actually. If you check the marketing slide for the Z790 Dark, he has a statement on it. I think they developed the Z790 directly after they cut production for the 690, and I'm almost dead certain the 690 was a limited-production product because of the strange instant drop to $500. He was likely still there for the Z790 Dark design in that regard. The Z790 Dark and X670E Dark boards probably learn from the 690's design and just add to it with those ridiculous 14-layer 1DPC topologies and minor tweaks to traces and impedance that I personally do not understand. It seems that Luumi contributes to their RAM testing and there's another forum member who has posted on the Dark forum a few times who seems to be involved to some degree. I'm sure they'll be alright for the rest of DDR5, I hope at least.


Ah, seems he was more involved than I thought. Regardless, it's a huge loss for EVGA. I'm curious if he will contribute to BIOS design on the Z790 DARK as his final piece, or if he's done entirely with any product from EVGA. I'd imagine he has vested interest in making sure the Z790 DARK is a success, since his KINGPIN branding is his own, and he can bring it to other manufacturers.

I'm really hoping PNY or MSI grab up KINGPIN and allow him to continue his designs. Anyone but ASUS, really.. lol.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Ah, seems he was more involved than I thought. Regardless, it's a huge loss for EVGA. I'm curious if he will contribute to BIOS design on the Z790 DARK as his final piece, or if he's done entirely with any product from EVGA. I'd imagine he has vested interest in making sure the Z790 DARK is a success, since his KINGPIN branding is his own, and he can bring it to other manufacturers.
> 
> I'm really hoping PNY or MSI grab up KINGPIN and allow him to continue his designs. Anyone but ASUS, really.. lol.


Yeah not ASUS. Good lord not ASUS...


----------



## acoustic

MSI would make the most sense for him as they do motherboards along with GPUs. Imagine a MSI Unify-X, but designed by Vince..

yum.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> MSI would make the most sense for him as they do motherboards along with GPUs. Imagine a MSI Unify-X, but designed by Vince..
> 
> yum.


I think MSI need to do a Unify-X and a Unify K|NGP|N. The Unify-X is never maxed out. They only gave it 8 layers and that made it inherently weaker than the Dark, Tachyon and the Aqua OC. The K|NGP|N version can be the maxed out board.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> I think MSI need to do a Unify-X and a Unify K|NGP|N. The Unify-X is never maxed out. They only gave it 8 layers and that made it inherently weaker than the Dark, Tachyon and the Aqua OC. The K|NGP|N version can be the maxed out board.


That's really what I mean. You have the Unify (4-Dimm), and then the Unify-X would become the KINGPIN branded. Either way, just me dreaming.. lol


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> That's really what I mean. You have the Unify (4-Dimm), and then the Unify-X would become the KINGPIN branded. Either way, just me dreaming.. lol


It's not impossible. He has to go somewhere so it's entirely possible. Unless he just ditches PC stuff altogether.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> It's not impossible. He has to go somewhere so it's entirely possible. Unless he just ditches PC stuff altogether.


I don't see that happening. His branding relies on him maintaining relevance in the XOC community.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> View attachment 2574221
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/xmp-3-for-core-processors.html
> 
> 
> 
> highest 4 dimm mobo
> z790 hero, 7466mhz
> 
> highest 2 dimm mobo
> z790 apex, 7600
> 
> 
> msi varbon lmao
> msi official support up to 7600, but 7200 only by intel


@z390e I think this list explains it. Seems as those A-die is being reserved primarily for Z790, and 690 boards are basically being brushed aside.


----------



## z390e

@affxct can't say I am that surprised, I wondered this exact thing over in the Dark thread. Looks like will have to buy the z790 Dark now too 💲💲💲


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> @affxct can't say I am that surprised, I wondered this exact thing over in the Dark thread. Looks like will have to buy the z790 Dark now too 💲💲💲


I mean, not necessarily right? Our Darks should do 8000 with A-die. By that point it becomes more of an IMC bottleneck than anything else. The Z790 Dark has 14 layers. When I read that my jaw dropped. I'm all for it, but goodness what does it need 14 layers for? I think they're shooting for 9000MT/s daily.


----------



## acoustic

I may consider going to Z790 DARK. I suspect the stock will be constricted with EVGA trying to slow spending.. or maybe the stock will be higher since they're looking to increase sales.

Will be an interesting release!


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I may consider going to Z790 DARK. I suspect the stock will be constricted with EVGA trying to slow spending.. or maybe the stock will be higher since they're looking to increase sales.
> 
> Will be an interesting release!


I had to import my 690 for $150, so total cost was $650. I expect the 790 to drop at 900 again, so that makes it a $1050 board for me. It looks incredible but I don't think it'll be a necessary upgrade for the moment. Major emphasis on for the moment. If some mature RPL chips can do 2200MHz+ IMC clock and Samsung/Micron contribute some ICs that do 9000-10000, then the Z790 Dark might become the obvious choice.


----------



## sulalin

affxct said:


> I mean, not necessarily right? Our Darks should do 8000 with A-die. By that point it becomes more of an IMC bottleneck than anything else. The Z790 Dark has 14 layers. When I read that my jaw dropped. I'm all for it, but goodness what does it need 14 layers for? I think they're shooting for 9000MT/s daily.


Z690 APEX can use ADIE to achieve 8200/8266/8400/8533 MHZ, and the 14-layer board must be able to achieve at least 8600/8800 or more, right? Otherwise, the 14-layer board is not just a gimmick for making money


----------



## IronAge

you mean YOUR cherry picked Apex can do that.

for me my 2021 Apex is a POS gimmick, lying around since i got it as a replacement for another even worse  Apex.

just gave up getting something reasonable from Asus here.

800$ spent for a board than i can basically nail to the wall or realise another 50% loss when i want to resell it.


----------



## L0wPull

Arghh sorry mis post can’t delete :/


----------



## L0wPull

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.81U3
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
> Ambient: 30C


Hi 👋
any specific bios mem training settings you don’t mind sharing? Moving over from Apex, not used to MSI, could use some pointers.. feel free to point me to something  🙏
Cheers
L0wPull


----------



## L0wPull

owikh84 said:


> While I managed to stabilize my Hynix A-die 84N (214A chips, locked MPS PMIC) up to 7200c32 on Z690 Extreme (2022, BIOS 2004), I'm facing difficulty stabilizing my 81N sticks (224A chips, unlocked Renesas PMIC). The 81N can't stable at 7000c32 with even loose tRFC and tREFI.


Ouch. I have several sticks of unlocked 224A to deal with.. keep us posted on progress GL 🤞🏼


----------



## L0wPull

hello to all… joining here a bit overdue tbh, been balls-deep in ADL since march and older stuff… since 30 years.. better late than never eh. 😆
I have a Nov 2021 binned good apex I’m selling (EU), on my mediocre imc’s managed 7400c32 quad channel GB3 ok, so defo not a dud.
Selling up most of my ADL/DDR5 but have also a z690i unify I picked up cheap I’m tempted to keep, along with a golden imc non-avx g7400 and a really decent 12300 with avx512…
Just got 4x unlocked 224a adie in before I decided to quit, so gonna play around on the z690i with them see if my g7400 can get good results…. The cpu was valid 7788 air mdie with previous owner, and has done me some good subs and allowed me to bin all my sticks nicely..
Had a first stab at two random adie sticks of 4 on Apex, posted 7600c34 quad with g7400, but couldn’t stabilise on 2004 or 1505 with my crappy 12900k imc (sp68/96 with meh imc).
Will keep you posted on foray with z690i unify… if it handles them well enough I’ll keep a bundle, otherwise have buyers already for all but the binned Apex and adie..
FYI I binned 4 Apex. 1x October 2021, 3x November 2021. 2 were good, both Nov 2021’s, others were usual gimped, 64-6600 max stable CHA.


----------



## affxct

sulalin said:


> Z690 APEX can use ADIE to achieve 8200/8266/8400/8533 MHZ, and the 14-layer board must be able to achieve at least 8600/8800 or more, right? Otherwise, the 14-layer board is not just a gimmick for making money


As I said, I honestly don't know why it has 14. I genuinely have no idea what the goal is and that's why I mentioned that the Z690 surely is still good enough. I don't even know what the RPL IMC can do so it might end up being that no one runs over 8000 if it forces Gear 4.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> As I said, I honestly don't know why it has 14. I genuinely have no idea what the goal is and that's why I mentioned that the Z690 surely is still good enough. I don't even know what the RPL IMC can do so it might end up being that no one runs over 8000 if it forces Gear 4.


It's just marketing. They want the consumer to believe that they have the best from everything, even from layer count.


----------



## IronAge

G.Skill A-Die SKUs

G-Skill DDR5-7466 CL36 – F5-7466J3648G16GX2-TZ5RK
G-Skill DDR5-7466 CL36 – F5-7466J3648G16GX2-TZ5RK
G-Skill DDR5-7600 CL36 – F5-7600J3648G16GX2-TZ5RK









Intel Core i9-13900K & premium Z790 motherboard now certified for DDR5-7600 XMP 3.0 memory - VideoCardz.com


Intel Core i9-13900K will work with DDR5-7600 memory At the Innovation 2022 event, the company confirmed the specs of the 13th Gen Core series, with support for DDR5-5600 memory out of the box. However, modern desktop CPUs can benefit from memory overclocking through the use of Intel Extreme...




videocardz.com


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> It's just marketing. They want the consumer to believe that they have the best from everything, even from layer count.


EVGA doesn't strike me as the marketing type of company though. Their Z690 Dark was a legitimate monster of a board. The only board that can do 1T above 7000. Surely the Z790 had a layer upgrade for a useful reason?


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> EVGA doesn't strike me as the marketing type of company though. Their Z690 Dark was a legitimate monster of a board. The only board that can do 1T above 7000. Surely the Z790 had a layer upgrade for a useful reason?


Maybe, maybe not.


----------



## IronAge

more pcb layers avoids/reduces crosstalk, so it should achieve even higher memory overclocks when the UEFI is fine.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> Maybe, maybe not.


The way I look at it; their site is modest, they had next to no adverts or marketing material aside from the sample they sent Jay, and their board is owned by almost no one. It just seems like whenever they make something they make it with a legit goal behind it. The Z690 Dark itself is the most purpose-built electronic device I've ever owned next to like a Nokia from the early 2000s. If 14 layers is a gimmick, who are they trying to fool? Their target audience is exclusively enthusiasts and XOCers.


----------



## rent0n

affxct said:


> EVGA doesn't strike me as the marketing type of company though. Their Z690 Dark was a legitimate monster of a board. The only board that can do 1T above 7000. Surely the Z790 had a layer upgrade for a useful reason?


Remove the first sentence and you’re good to go.


----------



## affxct

rent0n said:


> Remove the first sentence and you’re good to go.


Ok I mean, let's pretend they are. Who do they market to and where does their marketing material go? They need to hire a new marketing team because they're not getting reach anywhere. No one aside from us OCers even know they make motherboards.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> The way I look at it; their site is modest, they had next to no adverts or marketing material aside from the sample they sent Jay, and their board is owned by almost no one. It just seems like whenever they make something they make it with a legit goal behind it. The Z690 Dark itself is the most purpose-built electronic device I've ever owned next to like a Nokia from the early 2000s. If 14 layers is a gimmick, who are they trying to fool? Their target audience is exclusively enthusiasts and XOCers.


Since the quit from the VGA market (at least they are not NV partners anymore) they need to make more income from motherboards (too), so they have to reach the average consumers. Average consumer just see only the numbers.
Anyway, I am sure that this will be the best Z790 board.


----------



## z390e

I mean I kind of agree, the Dark is a fantastic board but so is the Apex when it works as is the Aqua OC and also even the Unify X as well. As much as I love the board I dont think its a clear dominator over some of those others. The HWBOT competitions simply prove otherwise.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> Since the quit from the VGA market (at least they are not NV partners anymore) they need to make more income from motherboards (too), so they have to reach the average consumers. Average consumer just see only the numbers.
> Anyway, I am sure that this will be the best Z790 board.


This board was designed long before the split though. Their falling out with NVIDIA likely happened around the middle of this year and they've been designing the Z790 since early this year in all likelihood.


----------



## rent0n

affxct said:


> Ok I mean, let's pretend they are. Who do they market to and where does their marketing material go? They need to hire a new marketing team because they're not getting reach anywhere. No one aside from us OCers even know they make motherboards.


It’s your first EVGA board and you’re pretty happy with it - we get it and that’s fair.

But saying that EVGA, the company that’s been making some of the most overhyped and overpriced GPUs (not without a reason to an extent) for years, is not marketing-driven - that’s just nonsense. I remember the OC/Gaming type of branding they had in their marketing campaigns back in the day. It’s not only what you see on their website or what campaigns they do, it’s also the whole product design and placement. Plus, they are way more active on the NA market than anywhere else. What the EVGA team and Vince in particular develops or used to develop as mainboards was just a small part of what they did.


----------



## affxct

rent0n said:


> It’s your first EVGA board and you’re pretty happy with it - we get it and that’s fair.
> 
> But saying that EVGA, the company that’s been making some of the most overhyped and overpriced GPUs (not without a reason to an extent) for years, is not marketing-driven - that’s just nonsense. I remember the OC/Gaming type of branding they had in their marketing campaigns back in the day. It’s not only what you see on their website or what campaigns they do, it’s also the whole product design and placement. Plus, they are way more active on the NA market than anywhere else. What the EVGA team and Vince in particularly develops or used to develop as mainboards was just a small part of what they did.


I guess at the end of the day, I don't really know what the capabilities of A-die and the next gen boards are, so perhaps it is just marketing. It's difficult for me to grasp, but perhaps you guys are correct.


----------



## IronAge

EVGA been one of the few companies that sold Ampere GPUs for MSRP and also more reasonable prices via the recommanded retailers during the pandemic.

Also they have the best reputation in terms of support, i bought a used X299 DARK from Ebay for ~250$, it got issues with DIMM slots after a while.

EVGA swapped it for a brand new one within a week (!) without asking further questions.

from Asus i got the same crapped board back after four weeks, and that happend to others too, even with a Z690 Extreme that would not do more than DDR5-6000.


----------



## rent0n

affxct said:


> I guess at the end of the day, I don't really know what the capabilities of A-die and the next gen boards are, so perhaps it is just marketing. It's difficult for me to grasp, but perhaps you guys are correct.


We should also point out that ASUS failed hard with 12th gen, which helped EVGA boards gain more attention this time. Which is not a bad thing by any means.


----------



## rent0n

IronAge said:


> EVGA been one of the few companies that sold Ampere GPUs for MSRP and also more reasonable prices via the recommanded retailers during the pandemic.


Which we all know is usually not the case - it goes the other way around.

As for their support - yes it’s top notch.


----------



## LazyGamer

rent0n said:


> We should also point out that ASUS failed hard with 12th gen, which helped EVGA boards gain more attention this time. Which is not a bad thing by any means.


The confounding part is that good copies of the Apex, Hero, and Extreme all do very well in areas where other boards falter, i.e. the Apex is still the best memory OC board if you have a good copy, and the Hero and Extreme are better than average with four DIMMs installed, assuming a good copy of the board. Along with the reversed exploding capacitor on the Hero it seems that ASUS' production capabilities were the bigger stumbling block for them. It's clear that they can design exceptional boards - but their Q/A certainly has given enthusiasts room for pause!


----------



## IronAge

with 2022 samples Asus solved the production issues (not seen a single bad 2022 board)

but it does not help the poor fools who paid 850$ for the bad or at best mediocre early retail boards which Asus refuses to swap.

Asus  on me as a customer, they won't see a single $ from me any more, and i bought their pc parts for over 30 years now.


----------



## acoustic

In my DDR5 journey, I've realized 6800 is impossible due to either the CPU IMC or the board. I won't know which one until 13900K.

I've managed to tighten down 6600 pretty well, and found a very nice voltage floor. With 1.41v VDIMM/1.38v VDDQ, I had an error in Karhu @ 28800%. Bumped voltage to 1.41v/1.39v, and that error is now gone. RTLs nice and tight 65/64, 32-39-39-30, tRFC decently tuned.. can't really ask for much more. To run this, I need 1.45v CPU VDDQ TX, and 1.38v VDD2. I'm not surprised that 1.50v CPU VDDQ TX helped me gain a bunch of stability at 6800, but it still isn't enough. I suspect going to 1.53-1.55v would get 6800 stable, but I'm not willing to run it that high 24/7, so not much purpose.

Running these timings @ 6600 with such low vDIMM screams to me that the issue with 6800+ is not the sticks..


----------



## rent0n

LazyGamer said:


> The confounding part is that good copies of the Apex, Hero, and Extreme all do very well in areas where other boards falter, i.e. the Apex is still the best memory OC board if you have a good copy, and the Hero and Extreme are better than average with four DIMMs installed, assuming a good copy of the board. Along with the reversed exploding capacitor on the Hero it seems that ASUS' production capabilities were the bigger stumbling block for them. It's clear that they can design exceptional boards - but their Q/A certainly has given enthusiasts room for pause!


You are right for the most part, but the fact that they had to make several batches of the high-end boards is a fail by itself.


----------



## LazyGamer

rent0n said:


> You are right for the most part, but the fact that they had to make several batches of the high-end boards is a fail by itself.


I did say exactly that, but in even more detail.


----------



## rent0n

LazyGamer said:


> I did say exactly that, but in even more detail.


Well thank you for the detailed enlightment I guess.


----------



## Silent Scone

IronAge said:


> more pcb layers avoids/reduces crosstalk, so it should achieve even higher memory overclocks when the UEFI is fine.


Overall layer count by itself doesn't mean much which is why you tend not to find it in marketing as much as in years gone by. You can have a 20-layer PCB and still fall short of a 14-layer one. Trace layout and transmission line impedances are more important when speaking about maximum frequency. The best source of information on this at the moment would be Intel's validation table.


----------



## warbucks

acoustic said:


> In my DDR5 journey, I've realized 6800 is impossible due to either the CPU IMC or the board. I won't know which one until 13900K.
> 
> I've managed to tighten down 6600 pretty well, and found a very nice voltage floor. With 1.41v VDIMM/1.38v VDDQ, I had an error in Karhu @ 28800%. Bumped voltage to 1.41v/1.39v, and that error is now gone. RTLs nice and tight 65/64, 32-39-39-30, tRFC decently tuned.. can't really ask for much more. To run this, I need 1.45v CPU VDDQ TX, and 1.38v VDD2. I'm not surprised that 1.50v CPU VDDQ TX helped me gain a bunch of stability at 6800, but it still isn't enough. I suspect going to 1.53-1.55v would get 6800 stable, but I'm not willing to run it that high 24/7, so not much purpose.
> 
> Running these timings @ 6600 with such low vDIMM screams to me that the issue with 6800+ is not the sticks..
> View attachment 2574319


8 layer PCB. The Unify-X tends to max out around 6800Mhz. I've rarely seen this board and 7000Mhz+. My board tops out at 6933Mhz.


----------



## IronAge

Most 1DPC Boards have short traces to DIMM Slots.

and i tend to believe that it is not a coincidence that 10+ Layer PCBs like the ASRock Aqua OC or the Z690 Dark can do 7000 1T.

With higher frequencies crosstalk is more of an issue, it is no coincidence too that PCIe 5.0 requires more PCB layers.


----------



## warbucks

IronAge said:


> Most 1DPC Boards have short traces to DIMM Slots.
> 
> and i tend to believe that it is not a coincidence that 10+ Layer PCBs like the ASRock Aqua OC or the Z690 Dark can do 7000 1T.
> 
> With higher frequencies crosstalk is more of an issue, it is no coincidence too that PCIe 5.0 requires more PCB layers.


Exactly. Look at the difference between the MSI Unify-X (8 layer PCB) and Z690i Unify (12 layer PCB). We've seen higher results with the latter.


----------



## affxct

LazyGamer said:


> The confounding part is that good copies of the Apex, Hero, and Extreme all do very well in areas where other boards falter, i.e. the Apex is still the best memory OC board if you have a good copy, and the Hero and Extreme are better than average with four DIMMs installed, assuming a good copy of the board. Along with the reversed exploding capacitor on the Hero it seems that ASUS' production capabilities were the bigger stumbling block for them. It's clear that they can design exceptional boards - but their Q/A certainly has given enthusiasts room for pause!


Z690-F is a beast as well


----------



## Silent Scone

IronAge said:


> Most 1DPC Boards have short traces to DIMM Slots.
> 
> and i tend to believe that it is not a coincidence that 10+ Layer PCBs like the ASRock Aqua OC or the Z690 Dark can do 7000 1T.
> 
> With higher frequencies crosstalk is more of an issue, it is no coincidence too that PCIe 5.0 requires more PCB layers.


It's not a coincidence. It's also not a coincidence you don't see vendors stacking 14 layers onto a 2DPC board and them performing as well as 1DPC, or all 2DPC boards performing equally as the former.

The trace length is one factor in a multi-facet problem, you also have shielding and spacing to consider, the number of vias, etc. If you're simply taking layers into account then one can only control the impedance so much. Even the copper pour varies. Touting layer count is simply the easiest thing for users to digest. That, or showing kits validated.


----------



## sulalin

warbucks said:


> 8 layer PCB. The Unify-X tends to max out around 6800Mhz. I've rarely seen this board and 7000Mhz+. My board tops out at 6933Mhz.


Z690 UNIFY-X is indeed the main overclocking board in Z690, but it is the worst and worst board!!! Very bad even if I use this board in the DDR5 memory world ranking, it is the only one that breaks the world with single and dual channels The record person but in 2 and dual channel I even have 5 CPUs with very strong IMC, but it can't exceed 7200MHZ and even 7000MHZ is very difficult to open! This is UNIFY-X like garbage!! At least APEX I can know that he is normal and good No one can drive APEX when the board memory is overclocked, but UNIFY-X has no difference between normal and abnormal because they are all the same! But there are many people here who are leading the way!!! Purposefully boasting that some boards are covering up some The behavior of the board! It's hilarious


----------



## Arni90

affxct said:


> Ok I mean, let's pretend they are. Who do they market to and where does their marketing material go? They need to hire a new marketing team because they're not getting reach anywhere. No one aside from us OCers even know they make motherboards.


EVGA has targeted enthusiasts who want the best stuff for over a decade now.
There's a reason they have employed K|NGP|N, and spent a lot of R&D to make the branded GPUs and motherboards.


----------



## 673714

All this talk about PCB layers got me curious, but I can't find much on Google. Only 1 result says, and it claims 12 layers for the Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme without anything to back it up. Does anyone here know for sure?


----------



## affxct

LilOliVert said:


> All this talk about PCB layers got me curious, but I can't find much on Google. Only 1 result says, and it claims 12 layers for the Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme without anything to back it up. Does anyone here know for sure?


8 XD


----------



## rulik006

IronAge said:


> with 2022 samples Asus solved the production issues (not seen a single bad 2022 board)
> but it does not help the fools who paid 850$ for the bad or at best mediocre early retails Boards which Asus refuses to swap.
> Asus  on me as a customer, they won't see a single $ from me any more, and i bought their pc parts for over 30 years now.


Agree
i bought 2021 z690 Apex for very cheap, but this board is pure trash
can boot 7000, while stable only 6200.
Asus support is gimmick, if you bought MB in other country you cant replace it localy
Also **** up with z690 Hero too...
Do not buy ASUS, they lost all credibility


----------



## just20sent

Hey everyone, any board recommendation for a next gen build with a 13900k?


----------



## affxct

just20sent said:


> Hey everyone, any board recommendation for a next gen build with a 13900k?


Z790 Taichi Carrara is the coolest looking board ever, unquestionably.


----------



## LazyGamer

just20sent said:


> Hey everyone, any board recommendation for a next gen build with a 13900k?


They're all good till someone pulls an ASUS.


----------



## motivman

Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com


Buy Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





DDR5 7200 CL34.. Hynix A-die I guess huh?


----------



## newls1

just20sent said:


> Hey everyone, any board recommendation for a next gen build with a 13900k?


personally, I would look into the MSI Unify X, eVGA Z690 Dark, and the Z790 Dark. All will be fantastic performers


----------



## schug

Hey everyone! I'm new to this forum but have been trying to get a DDR5 6600 XMP profile from Corsair to work on Strix-E. I understand I am probably at the limit of my board or 12900k IMC. Is there any way to rule out which is the limiting factor without acquiring new hardware? I've tested 1.45v for VDD VDDQ and up to 1.35 on IMC VDD with a SA voltage that goes up to 1.25 on Auto (I've tested lower). Nothing is stable but 6400 is fine. Any suggestions for voltages to change?


----------



## Agent-A01

acoustic said:


> In my DDR5 journey, I've realized 6800 is impossible due to either the CPU IMC or the board. I won't know which one until 13900K.


Most likely the IMC. I only need 1.3~ for 6800 on this SP89 chip. My other SP90 chip needed at least >1.5v too.


----------



## 673714

schug said:


> Hey everyone! I'm new to this forum but have been trying to get a DDR5 6600 XMP profile from Corsair to work on Strix-E. I understand I am probably at the limit of my board or 12900k IMC. Is there any way to rule out which is the limiting factor without acquiring new hardware? I've tested 1.45v for VDD VDDQ and up to 1.35 on IMC VDD with a SA voltage that goes up to 1.25 on Auto (I've tested lower). Nothing is stable but 6400 is fine. Any suggestions for voltages to change?


I was meaning to reply to your post earlier but couldn't find it when I went back later. Now I see you changed/moved it, so I'm sorry you slipped through the cracks over there, but that's why 

You have a 4 slot board, and from what I can tell, 4 slot Asus boards need more voltage than a 2 slot. My 6400 kit was supposed to be 1.4v, but actually requires 1.44v because my Maximus Extreme is 4 slot. If your board is like mine, it will want all 3 voltages to be the same for VDD, VDDQ and IVR. I suspect you're trying too much voltage on SA and too little on the VDD, VDDQ and IVR transmitter based on what I've experienced so far. I'd try 1.46v for all 3 if I was you, but first..

This video was a tremendous help for me and others, so I highly recommend seeing what you can learn from it. You're also welcome to read through my post history, I've shared all that I've learned, or thought I learned lol


----------



## schug

LilOliVert said:


> I was meaning to reply to your post earlier but couldn't find it when I went back later. Now I see you changed/moved it, so I'm sorry you slipped through the cracks over there, but that's why
> 
> You have a 4 slot board, and from what I can tell, 4 slot Asus boards need more voltage than a 2 slot. My 6400 kit was supposed to be 1.4v, but actually requires 1.44v because my Maximus Extreme is 4 slot. I suspect you're trying too much voltage on SA and too little on the VDD, VDDQ and IVR transmitter based on what I've experienced so far.
> 
> This video was a tremendous help for me and others, so I highly recommend seeing what you can learn from it. You're also welcome to read through my post history, I've shared all that I've learned, or thought I learned lol


Sorry for the move! I just noticed this thread and figured it was more appropriate here. I will take a look at that video and your post history. Thanks for the guidance!


----------



## IronAge

Silent Scone said:


> It's not a coincidence. It's also not a coincidence you don't see vendors stacking 14 layers onto a 2DPC board and them performing as well as 1DPC, or all 2DPC boards performing equally as the former.
> 
> The trace length is one factor in a multi-facet problem, you also have shielding and spacing to consider, the number of vias, etc. If you're simply taking layers into account then one can only control the impedance so much. Even the copper pour varies. Touting layer count is simply the easiest thing for users to digest. That, or showing kits validated.


everything counts, so do more PCB layers, not only, but it definitly helps, no matter what you want to call it.
some call it server grade or HQ PCB and you call it layer stacking.
for some odd reason the boards with more layers always performed better than other comparable boards i bought from the same gen.
(especially remembering ASRock Z170 and Z170M OC Formula, the 1DPC mATX variant already had 10 Layer PCB back in 2016 for as much as 200$)
the major concern when buying an enthusiast/XOC mobo from EVGA or ASRock is not the quality of the PCB/components but the UEFI and how bugged it is.


----------



## Herald

Anyone got any opinions on the 6600c34 gskill kit? Im considering it...


----------



## just20sent

newls1 said:


> personally, I would look into the MSI Unify X, eVGA Z690 Dark, and the Z790 Dark. All will be fantastic performers


I'm a bit confuse, i see a lot of hate for Asus due to the Apex issue but then a lot of them are using it.
Does the Unify X manage to do more than 6800Mhz ? 

I will lean toward EVGA most probably thanks !


----------



## asdkj1740

IronAge said:


> EVGA been one of the few companies that sold Ampere GPUs for MSRP and also more reasonable prices via the recommanded retailers during the pandemic.
> 
> Also they have the best reputation in terms of support, i bought a used X299 DARK from Ebay for ~250$, it got issues with DIMM slots after a while.
> 
> EVGA swapped it for a brand new one within a week (!) without asking further questions.
> 
> from Asus i got the same crapped board back after four weeks, and that happend to others too, even with a Z690 Extreme that would not do more than DDR5-6000.


i dont think evga had sold 3080 at 699 usd.
evga's MSRP (800~900), not nvidia's MSRP (699).
i mean the cheapest xc edition. not ftw.


----------



## newls1

Herald said:


> Anyone got any opinions on the 6600c34 gskill kit? Im considering it...


yeah, dont get em, hold off as "A" die mem is about to pop off


----------



## Herald

newls1 said:


> yeah, dont get em, hold off as "A" die mem is about to pop off


Are they though? Like, in October i could buy them in eu?


----------



## pipes

Which are good RAM for take 7000 or near? Are teamgroup 4800 cl40 good?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## newls1

Herald said:


> Are they though? Like, in October i could buy them in eu?











Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com


Buy Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## QXE

My MPower oloy has arrived


----------



## pipes

QXE said:


> View attachment 2574411
> My MPower oloy has arrived


I like know specs and ic when try these ram

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## QXE

pipes said:


> I like know specs and ic when try these ram
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


They're Hynix A die.


----------



## IronAge

@QXE

i wonder why they named them M-Power then.  how much they have been ? no way to get these within europe.


----------



## energie80

Bmw fanboy


----------



## QXE

IronAge said:


> @QXE
> 
> i wonder why they named them M-Power then.  how much they have been ? no way to get these within europe.


They were roughly $530usd.


----------



## asdkj1740

IronAge said:


> @QXE
> 
> i wonder why they named them M-Power then.  how much they have been ? no way to get these within europe.


msi m power


----------



## pipes

QXE said:


> They're Hynix A die.


There are only with rgb

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> Which are good RAM for take 7000 or near? Are teamgroup 4800 cl40 good?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sulalin

IronAge，發布：29039614，成員：226155 said:


> @QXE
> 
> 我想知道為什麼他們當時將它們命名為 M-Power。：哈哈： 他們已經多少錢了？沒有辦法在歐洲獲得這些。
> [/引用]
> 因為OLOY的記憶爛得像狗屎！買它的人需要力量和勇氣！


----------



## QXE

why is oloy ****? Its the only memory kit I've seen do 8000mbps stable with good timings on Z690.


----------



## owikh84

Changed the subtimings a bit and MC voltage also reduced

12900KS SP95 (P104/E78) - P52/E42/R43 LLC7 1.24v
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2004
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatspreaders
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7200 34-42-42-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.375V | SA 1.25v (Auto) | MC 1.35v







*


----------



## sulalin

QXE said:


> why is oloy ****? Its the only memory kit I've seen do 8000mbps stable with good timings on Z690.


Isn't 8000MHZ the most basic frequency of green? Try MPOWER to see if it can open 8200, 8266, 8400 without stability, just open it!


----------



## sulalin

AMG-POWER 16G*2 $1500R 81N M-POWER GOGOGO


----------



## QXE

sulalin said:


> Isn't 8000MHZ the most basic frequency of green? Try MPOWER to see if it can open 8200, 8266, 8400 without stability, just open it!


I just got my board set up. I am using a unify-X so it may be hard to post super high frequency like apex and unify itx.


----------



## 673714

Herald said:


> Anyone got any opinions on the 6600c34 gskill kit? Im considering it...


I ordered this kit as temporary replacements a few days ago after I found I had 1 bad stick in my 6400MHz Trident kit. Just put them in last night and I'm still in the process of test driving, but they're obviously better than what I had  



newls1 said:


> yeah, dont get em, hold off as "A" die mem is about to pop off


This is exactly why I only ordered the 6600MHz as a temporary solution


----------



## pipes

advice for purchases?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## domdtxdissar

Samsung is developing 36 Gbps GDDR7 memory for next gen data center, HPC and gaming markets - VideoCardz.com


Samsung Electronics Envisions Hyper-Growth in Memory and Logic Semiconductors Through Intensified Industry Collaborations at Samsung Tech Day 2022 A new wave of memory solutions and limitless partnership opportunities to bring greater capabilities to data center, server, mobile, gaming and...




videocardz.com





Wont be long until hynix a-die is dethroned as the fastest memory 



> The company then highlighted upcoming DRAM solutions such as 32Gb DDR5 DRAM, *8.5Gbps* LPDDR5X DRAM and 36Gbps GDDR7 DRAM that will bring new capabilities to data center, HPC, mobile, gaming and automotive market segments.


----------



## sulalin

warbucks said:


> Exactly. Look at the difference between the MSI Unify-X (8 layer PCB) and Z690i Unify (12 layer PCB). We've seen higher results with the latter.


UNIFY-X is not open because of the number of layers. UNIFY-I 12-layer board can't open my APEX. I don't know how many layers, but the number of layers has no effect on my frequency! Have you seen any UNIFY-I opened? 8200-8533 16G*2 QUAD CHANNEL? Logically speaking, it is very easy to turn on these frequencies for 12-layer boards, right?


----------



## IronAge

From how many Apex yours has been binned ?  and how do regular retail Apex perform, a lot worse i would say.


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> From how many Apex yours has been binned ?  and how do regular retail Apex perform, a lot worse i would say.


That wasn't the point? Point was layers of pcb doesn't allways mean best performance. Old Apex like z390/490 was lower pcb layer than like msi z490i, but Apex was still de best for OC memory. Atleast it was for me. Had both Msi and Asus.
Love from Norway


----------



## IronAge

and where you got your golden Apex from ? not from retail channel AFAIK. 

i know a guy who went thru over 10 retail Apex to find one that been able to do ~7200 with Hynix M-Die.

and i know another guy that simply bought ONE Z690 Kingpin and it does 7000 1T.

for many retail buyers MSI Unify-X worked better than ****ty Apex retail samples with production or QA issues.

BTW: MSI sells the ATX Unify-X for 350$ less, the ITX Unify for 400$ less than the Apex, hope you kinda get the idea.


----------



## owikh84

12900KS SP95 (P104/E78) - P52/E42/E43 LLC7 1.24v
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2004
2x16GB Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Bitspower heatspreaders
2x16GB Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler heatspreaders
2x Noctua A6x25
Ambient: 30C

*4x16GB DDR5-6400 30-38-38-28-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.40V | SA 1.25v | MC 1.35v*


----------



## warbucks

Nizzen said:


> That wasn't the point? Point was layers of pcb doesn't allways mean best performance. Old Apex like z390/490 was lower pcb layer than like msi z490i, but Apex was still de best for OC memory. Atleast it was for me. Had both Msi and Asus.
> Love from Norway


No one said more PCB layers are guaranteed to provide better performance/higher frequency in ram overclocking. If you look at the results from the various threads on OC.NET for Z690 boards and ram overclocking you can clearly see a trend. There are other factors of course, IMC, binned sticks, binned cpus and boards that come into play. 

I don't think you can compare older chipsets and boards with the current crop of Z690 boards given they're using DDR5.


----------



## acoustic

Nice RTLs..


----------



## z390e

@IronAge why do you insist on beating the "I got a bad Apex" horse again in this DDR5 thread? Plenty of people got good ones, you just chose to keep yours for some odd reason despite the vendor acknowledging the issue and handing out refunds to multiple overclock.net users. Is it too much to ask for you to stop bemoaning this issue now that there is a new motherboard line out, or do you still plan to beat this horse throughout Raptor Lake and into the next gen as well? If you plan to keep on this issue, can you at least take your melt over to the Apex thread again where it's on topic please? Thanks.


----------



## pipes

pipes said:


> advice for purchases?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Up

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sulalin

z390e said:


> @IronAge why do you insist on beating the "I got a bad Apex" horse again in this DDR5 thread? Plenty of people got good ones, you just chose to keep yours for some odd reason despite the vendor acknowledging the issue and handing out refunds to multiple overclock.net users. Is it too much to ask for you to stop bemoaning this issue now that there is a new motherboard line out, or do you still plan to beat this horse throughout Raptor Lake and into the next gen as well? If you plan to keep on this issue, can you at least take your melt over to the Apex thread again where it's on topic please? Thanks.


There are always many people here because they can't exchange for normal APEX, maybe the method is wrong, maybe they don't buy enough, but at least the APEX in the world may only be 10% of the APEX is normal, 90% of the APEX is 21 years old, but at least we bought it To exchange to the 10% good APEX!
And UNIFY-X is that even if you sell more pieces, you will not have the chance to exchange it because MSI directly gives up UNIFY-X and asks you to use UNIFY-I because there is no UNIFY-X you can use MDIE with frequencies above 7200-7400 ADIE8000 and above 100% garbage
Although many people are talking about the fact that DARK can have a higher 1T, what is the advantage of the memory performance compared with 2T in the higher 1T frequency seen here? I can't see the reason!
If people have normal APEX, they suspect that they didn’t get it through the regular way! The world sees other people's world with its own limited eyes!
I am the only one who broke the DDR5 world record with Z690 UNIFY-X with single and dual channels! I am the only one! But I am absolutely qualified to say that his board is a piece of garbage!

The incompetence of the MSI Z690 UNIFY-X! In addition to the incompetence of the entire MSI OC LAB, it cannot break the DDR5 world record on the HYNIX MDIE! But no one questioned the incompetence of this motherboard manufacturer and the inability of the UNIFYX dual boot to open MHZ above 7200. A so-called righteous person with a seed came out and said half a word!
MSI UNIFY X MDIE broke the record only by one of their users!


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

sulalin said:


> There are always many people here because they can't exchange for normal APEX, maybe the method is wrong, maybe they don't buy enough, but at least the APEX in the world may only be 10% of the APEX is normal, 90% of the APEX is 21 years old, but at least we bought it To exchange to the 10% good APEX!
> And UNIFY-X is that even if you sell more pieces, you will not have the chance to exchange it because MSI directly gives up UNIFY-X and asks you to use UNIFY-I because there is no UNIFY-X you can use MDIE with frequencies above 7200-7400 ADIE8000 and above 100% garbage
> Although many people are talking about the fact that DARK can have a higher 1T, what is the advantage of the memory performance compared with 2T in the higher 1T frequency seen here? I can't see the reason!
> If people have normal APEX, they suspect that they didn’t get it through the regular way! The world sees other people's world with its own limited eyes!
> I am the only one who broke the DDR5 world record with Z690 UNIFY-X with single and dual channels! I am the only one! But I am absolutely qualified to say that his board is a piece of garbage!
> 
> The incompetence of the MSI Z690 UNIFY-X! In addition to the incompetence of the entire MSI OC LAB, it cannot break the DDR5 world record on the HYNIX MDIE! But no one questioned the incompetence of this motherboard manufacturer and the inability of the UNIFYX dual boot to open MHZ above 7200. A so-called righteous person with a seed came out and said half a word!
> MSI UNIFY X MDIE broke the record only by one of their users!
> View attachment 2574722
> 
> View attachment 2574721
> 
> View attachment 2574720



Look at my 10k Jordans and my 15k with of hardware! 😂 ****, the scene is so dead at this point.

We're not Chinese Mafia and don't have hardware sent to us for free.


----------



## qc_armbender

Nizzen said:


> Both hynix


Thanks again for the recommendation on this kit. I purchased the 6000 c30 kit and was able to get it up to 6800 on stock primaries, but it required 1.5v. Settled nicely at 6600 but with a fan blowing on them, open case. 48ms on MLC. 6400 daily use @ 1.435v VDD/Q w/o fan directly on them. Would not cooperate at all under c30. Thinking about watercooling using with the bitspower 2 dimm block and a 120mm radiator on the backside of the case. Not sure if its worth it though.


----------



## Carillo

So, here we are... pushing Asus PRIME z690 to the max using a 12600K SP25 and 4800 cl40 memory


----------



## sulalin

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge，發布：29040873，成員：669355 said:


> 看看我的 10k 喬丹鞋和我的 15k 硬件！😂 ****，此時的場景太死了。
> 
> 我們中國黑手黨，也不是免費發送給我們的硬件。
> [/引用]
> 記錄，我自己，我沒有感謝先生的硬件！我所有挑戰世界紀錄的硬件，從 ddr4 到 ddr5，甚至每張衛生紙，每張 ln2，都是我花錢買的。所有消費記錄總us$約40000-哪-哪哪隻👀我我硬件免費的的嗎嗎？？或者或者你有有沒有找到任何任何說說他他提供提供硬件硬件的的硬件硬件硬件？收回你你你你你你你你你你你你


----------



## sulalin

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge，發布：29040873，成員：669355 said:


> 看看我的 10k 喬丹鞋和我的 15k 硬件！😂 ****，此時的場景太死了。
> 
> 我們不是中國黑手黨，也沒有免費發送給我們的硬件。
> [/引用]
> 如果你能找到任何主板廠來證明我的硬件是免費的！是讚助的。發給我你的地址。我會免費送你所有東西，包括新的 20 雙喬丹，好嗎？！如果你查不出來我的硬件是免費的，而且是主板廠贊助的，你能不能自己離開這個腦殘論壇？


----------



## z390e

@sulalin I wouldn't worry about it, for some reason on overclock.net there is a lot of envy and jealousy, dont worry of it, just keep putting up your best work, and shake the haters off, they will always be there for anyone


----------



## sulalin

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Look at my 10k Jordans and my 15k with of hardware! 😂 ****, the scene is so dead at this point.
> 
> We're not Chinese Mafia and don't have hardware sent to us for free.
> [/引用]
> Have you ever seen a user break the world record and then send the motherboard to the motherboard manufacturer to hope that they will cheer! The user has broken the record and MSI can't break the record with MDIE? These are the two Z690 UNIFY-X I bought with money. Hope MSI It's a good idea to use their own boards to run a decent frequency!!! Unfortunately, it's a pity that they have to wait for ADIE to break the record! MDIE They can't even win against their own users...


----------



## sulalin

z390e said:


> @sulalin I wouldn't worry about it, for some reason on overclock.net there is a lot of envy and jealousy, dont worry of it, just keep putting up your best work, and shake the haters off, they will always be there for anyone


know! That's why I got banned for 3 accounts including a paid premium member! Now this account I believe will be banned soon..hehe


----------



## sulalin

IronAge said:


> and where you got your golden Apex from ? not from retail channel AFAIK.
> 
> i know a guy who went thru over 10 retail Apex to find one that been able to do ~7200 with Hynix M-Die.
> 
> and i know another guy that simply bought ONE Z690 Kingpin and it does 7000 1T.
> 
> for many retail buyers MSI Unify-X worked better than ****ty Apex retail samples with production or QA issues.
> 
> BTW: MSI sells the ATX Unify-X for 350$ less, the ITX Unify for 400$ less than the Apex, hope you kinda get the idea.


Congratulations! You know one more person today. His APEX can easily be 7600/7733/7800/8000MHZ in MDIE, QUAD CHANNEL can be easily done in ADIE, 8200/8266/8400/8533 QUAD CHANNEL hope you will mention it to others APEX Don't forget to mention this guy you met today!!


Spoiler: Z690 APEX MDIE 7600/7733/7800/8000 QUAD CHANNEL ON AIR









































Spoiler: z690 apex adie 8200/8266/8400/8533 on air






















































Among the Z690 UNIFY-X DDR5 records, the only world record that was achieved with a single channel without a closed channel! All other DDR5 world records were broken by a single channel with a closed channel








Remember when you mention APEX to someone, don't forget this person you know


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> advice for purchases?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Different people will tell you different things. This is my take. Depends if you are going z690 or z790 and 12th or 13th gen. From what I can see so far A die doesn make that much of a difference from M die(for gaming benches) and many guys that are pretty exprerienced are having issues getting A die stable at high clocks so I would recommennd M die.

Maybe with more bios releases A die will be easier to get memtest/karhu/tm5 etc stable, reboot stability. But for now I have only seen a few guys get high clocks like 7800+ stable on z690 with 12th gen.

For benches or to post big adia64 screens go A die. In the long run A die will probably be better but right now not sure I would recommend it for someone just starting on ddr5 on z690/12th gen. Just my opinion. I have 3 kits of m die and just ordered a A die kit.

Basically accidental order, I went to check prices and shipping and ended up checking out. Guess it was ment to be  









[Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory


【Compatibility】 Dual profiles ready. Supports Intel XMP and AMD EXPO. 【BUILT FOR EXTREME OVERCLOCKING】 With SK Hynix A-die and on-board PMIC (Power Management Integrated Circuit) chips ensuring extreme overclocking performance, faster speeds, frequency and long-term stability . 【PRODUCT...




v-color.net





For cheap m die I think the Kingstons are a good deal. I have a kit of Kingston 6000c40, Gskill 6400c32 and Corsair 6600c32 and all clock about the same at around 7000c32 on 2022 Apex.

If you plan on going z790 and 13th gen I would go A die. Either way coming from ddr4 you are in for a learning curve tuning ddr5.


----------



## sulalin

準備好您的 T-FORCE DDR5 ADIE 每套手工挑選的，必須在 Z790 4DIMM 上 16G*2 7600/7800MHZ 1.35V~1.4V 穩定過測試每套手工挑选和測試的質量！！保證！！！
KO 10PCB


----------



## bscool

I guess I am taking one for the "TEAM" by buying the v colors 

I honestly didnt mean to check out just wanted to see price and I thought I had another step left before final checkout. oh well. It is only money


----------



## bigfootnz

sulalin said:


> Congratulations! You know one more person today. His APEX can easily be 7600/7733/7800/8000MHZ in MDIE, QUAD CHANNEL can be easily done in ADIE, 8200/8266/8400/8533 QUAD CHANNEL hope you will mention it to others APEX Don't forget to mention this guy you met today!!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Z690 APEX MDIE 7600/7733/7800/8000 QUAD CHANNEL ON AIR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574742
> 
> View attachment 2574743
> 
> View attachment 2574740
> 
> View attachment 2574741
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: z690 apex adie 8200/8266/8400/8533 on air
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2574747
> 
> View attachment 2574746
> 
> View attachment 2574745
> 
> View attachment 2574749
> 
> View attachment 2574748
> 
> View attachment 2574744
> 
> 
> 
> Among the Z690 UNIFY-X DDR5 records, the only world record that was achieved with a single channel without a closed channel! All other DDR5 world records were broken by a single channel with a closed channel
> View attachment 2574751
> 
> Remember when you mention APEX to someone, don't forget this person you know


I do not understand why always has to be someone who defend Asus, like it is their product, and what they have done with Apex Z690. Even Asus is admitting that they had huge problem with Apex, hence all these refunds/returns.

Nobody is questions that *working* Apex is better board than Unify-X. But how many people have complained regarding Apex and on other hand how many have with Unify-X? Yes, Unify-X with M-die cannot go above 7000, even 7000 is extremely hard, but almost every board will do with easy 6800. On other hand how many Apex will go to 6800 or above? In percentage of sold ones, I can say that number is small.

You are very good with your OC and what you have achived with Apex, and you should not try to work as a PR for Asus and to try to defend them.


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> I guess I am taking one for the "TEAM" by buying the v colors
> 
> I honestly didnt mean to check out just wanted to see price and I thought I had another step left before final checkout. oh well. It is only money


Almost ordered same after seeing your link, then realized coming from taiwan which is 1-2 weeks to arrive. If A die doesnt show up in states next week, Ill order from there as well, so thanks for link. Want to try A-die on z690 unifyx with 12900k than 13900k, only if doesnt work well then will change mobo to z790. But those are new toys, at 4k gaming what I really want is water cooled 4090.


----------



## pipes

sulalin said:


> There are always many people here because they can't exchange for normal APEX, maybe the method is wrong, maybe they don't buy enough, but at least the APEX in the world may only be 10% of the APEX is normal, 90% of the APEX is 21 years old, but at least we bought it To exchange to the 10% good APEX!
> And UNIFY-X is that even if you sell more pieces, you will not have the chance to exchange it because MSI directly gives up UNIFY-X and asks you to use UNIFY-I because there is no UNIFY-X you can use MDIE with frequencies above 7200-7400 ADIE8000 and above 100% garbage
> Although many people are talking about the fact that DARK can have a higher 1T, what is the advantage of the memory performance compared with 2T in the higher 1T frequency seen here? I can't see the reason!
> If people have normal APEX, they suspect that they didn’t get it through the regular way! The world sees other people's world with its own limited eyes!
> I am the only one who broke the DDR5 world record with Z690 UNIFY-X with single and dual channels! I am the only one! But I am absolutely qualified to say that his board is a piece of garbage!
> 
> The incompetence of the MSI Z690 UNIFY-X! In addition to the incompetence of the entire MSI OC LAB, it cannot break the DDR5 world record on the HYNIX MDIE! But no one questioned the incompetence of this motherboard manufacturer and the inability of the UNIFYX dual boot to open MHZ above 7200. A so-called righteous person with a seed came out and said half a word!
> MSI UNIFY X MDIE broke the record only by one of their users!
> View attachment 2574722
> 
> View attachment 2574721
> 
> View attachment 2574720


you seem to be happy with apex instead of unify-x, have you ever tested more z690 tachyon? I'm trying to choose between these 3 and maybe the dark one ... what do you recommend?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sulalin

bigfootnz said:


> I do not understand why always has to be someone who defend Asus, like it is their product, and what they have done with Apex Z690. Even Asus is admitting that they had huge problem with Apex, hence all these refunds/returns.
> 
> Nobody is questions that *working* Apex is better board than Unify-X. But how many people have complained regarding Apex and on other hand how many have with Unify-X? Yes, Unify-X with M-die cannot go above 7000, even 7000 is extremely hard, but almost every board will do with easy 6800. On other hand how many Apex will go to 6800 or above? In percentage of sold ones, I can say that number is small.
> 
> You are very good with your OC and what you have achived with Apex, and you should not try to work as a PR for Asus and to try to defend them.


Which eye do you see me defending ASUS? I bought 3 Z690 APEX before switching to a 22 year APEX At least I know how APEX is normal! I'm not saying that even if the world's APEX is only 10% normal but There are also 10% normal APEX, right? I need to zoom in on the 90% abnormal APEX? I don't get any ASUS benefits!
On the contrary, UNIFY-X don’t compare with APEX, just compare with UNIFY-I. This is the performance of the main memory overclocking. Single overclocking can compare with APEX, but why can’t it compare with normal APEX when it reaches 2 overclocking. Do not compare with APEX and ASRock Asus Gigabyte all 2DIMM boards than UX is the worst among all 2DIMM boards I use ROG Z690 I SAMSUNG IC/HYNIX MDIE can open 7400/7600, why can't an ATX 2DIMM board open more than 7200 The frequency of complaining about APEX is very simple, because APEX's market share and sales volume is much higher than UNIFYX! If I don't follow everyone to hack ASUS, I just defend ASUS? It's so funny! Follow your logic So if you don't talk about the fact that the UX dual channel is not high or even normal, isn't it just helping MSI defend and escort it?


----------



## sulalin

pipes said:


> you seem to be happy with apex instead of unify-x, have you ever tested more z690 tachyon? I'm trying to choose between these 3 and maybe the dark one ... what do you recommend?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Don't need to spend money on Z690. If you can get Z790, it will be better. If you insist on Z690, Gigabyte's KINGPIN's 22-year APEX is a good memory overclocking board. If the price is lower because the Z790 is listed, it is also a very good choice.


----------



## IronAge

sulalin said:


> ongratulations! You know one more person today. His APEX can easily be 7600/7733/7800/8000MHZ in MDIE, QUAD CHANNEL can be easily done in ADIE, 8200/8266/8400/8533 QUAD CHANNEL hope you will mention it to others APEX Don't forget to mention this guy you met today!!


you are invited to send me one of the golden apple Apex regular buyers can not pick up here in Europe and i will stop complaining, no problem.  
it is sure fair game that somebody who is affiliated to Asus and gets the good stuff for free mocks about people that spent 2000$ or more for  motherboards with issues.


----------



## z390e

@sulalin have you used the Dark z690 at all?

How would you rank the 2 DIMM boards you have used for RAM OC?


----------



## pipes

sulalin said:


> Don't need to spend money on Z690. If you can get Z790, it will be better. If you insist on Z690, Gigabyte's KINGPIN's 22-year APEX is a good memory overclocking board. If the price is lower because the Z790 is listed, it is also a very good choice.


evga is not very available in Italy and you pay 700 € for a kingpin, the tachyon costs around 600 €, amazon prices.
Apex used visto 524 € i talk of chipset z690

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## IronAge

@pipes 

Z690 Dark been available for around 600€ @ Amazon Germany, you should be able to buy it via Amazon Germany as well, ~640€ ATM.









EVGA Z690 Dark K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2,5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, I. ntel Motherboard, schwarz: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör


EVGA Z690 Dark K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2,5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, I. ntel Motherboard, schwarz - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!



www.amazon.de





instead of fiddling around with another crapped Apex i should have bought that one, now i wait for Z790.


----------



## bigfootnz

sulalin said:


> Which eye do you see me defending ASUS? I bought 3 Z690 APEX before switching to a 22 year APEX At least I know how APEX is normal! I'm not saying that even if the world's APEX is only 10% normal but There are also 10% normal APEX, right? I need to zoom in on the 90% abnormal APEX? I don't get any ASUS benefits!
> On the contrary, UNIFY-X don’t compare with APEX, just compare with UNIFY-I. This is the performance of the main memory overclocking. Single overclocking can compare with APEX, but why can’t it compare with normal APEX when it reaches 2 overclocking. Do not compare with APEX and ASRock Asus Gigabyte all 2DIMM boards than UX is the worst among all 2DIMM boards I use ROG Z690 I SAMSUNG IC/HYNIX MDIE can open 7400/7600, why can't an ATX 2DIMM board open more than 7200 The frequency of complaining about APEX is very simple, because APEX's market share and sales volume is much higher than UNIFYX! If I don't follow everyone to hack ASUS, I just defend ASUS? It's so funny! Follow your logic So if you don't talk about the fact that the UX dual channel is not high or even normal, isn't it just helping MSI defend and escort it?


With every post you trying to defend Apex like it is some kind holy grail. Just look your replay to me. You have stated that Unify-X is worst of all 2-dimm boards. What is reason for that, except to defend Asus and to say how MSI is crap. When did I say that Unify-X is better than *working Apex*? But, hey you have find reason to say that, Unify-X is crap? I'm sorry but I would take this Unify-X crap every time over gamble with current Apex. I disagree with your post, but this is pointless as are already set your mind that nobody has right to questions Apex quality. And this is only reason why everybody here are saying that Apex Z690 from user perspective is crap, as just as you said, only 10% of the board are working how they should be. Other 90% are worse than even most of 4 dimm boards. Then why you are attaching evrybody when they say that you have golden sample? 
Why would anybody, including you, should have to buy multiple boards to find one which is working as it should do? I'm not talking about binning, as this is completely different matter, but just to have board to work as it has been advertise as Best board for mem OC. Please make difference in my post between *working Apex*, like your one, and other 90%. Volume of sold motherboard do not change statistics. For, example I had two Unify-X boards, as on first one I had broken memory latch (that plastic which secure and pull memory from memory slot), and both boards were able to do same 6800C30. Can you find two Apex to be able to do same 7000, without cherry picking them?

Asus and MSI are the just the same, as they are companies which try to make profit and nothing else. If you cannot understand that, I'm out of this discussion as it is pointless.


----------



## sulalin

z390e said:


> @sulalin have you used the Dark z690 at all?
> 
> How would you rank the 2 DIMM boards you have used for RAM OC?


I haven't used DARK, but I think it should be good! I also got the information of EVGA's V here and left EVGA! Because I am in Taiwan! I ordered a lot of accessories for LN2 from EVGA's official website before and I used 7 pieces of 30G thermal paste. !It was only through ASUS that I learned that Mr. V from EVGA works in Taiwan. I also used EMAIL to confirm the order information with Mr. V. It turns out that all the items purchased by EVGA were sent by him in Taiwan!
I'm also curious why DARK can open 7000~7200MHZ 1T, but I observe that the memory performance of these 1T does not seem to have much advantage over 2T!

I'm not a professional motherboard reviewer! I don't have any free boards to get! Just the 2DIMM boards I bought are ROG Z690I *3 ROG Z690APEX*3 Z690 UNIFY-X in Z690
For a memory frequency overclocking hobby, the board is a consumable and it loses its warranty after being waterproofed! So you can see why I would buy more than 2 of the same board!
In addition, when DDR5 was out of stock when it first came out, you must buy a memory and a motherboard before you can buy a set of DDR5!

I can't comment on the ones I haven't used! But one thing should be correct is that the design of DARK is actually the half of a motherboard, which can be understood as the size of ITX plus the bottom half

So I can't rank the 2DIMM boards, but you can refer to the highest frequency that the average players open on this forum on each motherboard. I am also an ordinary individual player.

The IMC is more important than the design of any motherboard hardware! I spent almost $8,000 to pick the IMC for the 11th generation CPU, and nearly $6,000 for the IMC of the 12th generation CPU. The conclusion is that

Buying a QS CPU directly from the mainland is the best!!! QS's IMCs are generally very good! The price is also cheap and they all retain the AVX512 function, although I don't know what this function is for....Ha ha


----------



## IronAge

AVX-512 is mainly good for better Y-Cruncher scores.


----------



## Herald

I got a replacement for my 2021 apex, its a 2022 version and its been sitting in the box for a couple of months. It is - according to the box - for those who dare, and im not entirely sure I do right now. 

Is this guy above me telling me its gonna work properly? Should i drop my unisex and keep the apex instead? Or is it gonna fail at 5000mhz on the 1st slot like the previous apex... Questions questions


----------



## sulalin

bigfootnz said:


> With every post you trying to defend Apex like it is some kind holy grail. Just look your replay to me. You have stated that Unify-X is worst of all 2-dimm boards. What is reason for that, except to defend Asus and to say how MSI is crap. When did I say that Unify-X is better than *working Apex*? But, hey you have find reason to say that, Unify-X is crap? I'm sorry but I would take this Unify-X crap every time over gamble with current Apex. I disagree with your post, but this is pointless as are already set your mind that nobody has right to questions Apex quality. And this is only reason why everybody here are saying that Apex Z690 from user perspective is crap, as just as you said, only 10% of the board are working how they should be. Other 90% are worse than even most of 4 dimm boards. Then why you are attaching evrybody when they say that you have golden sample?
> Why would anybody, including you, should have to buy multiple boards to find one which is working as it should do? I'm not talking about binning, as this is completely different matter, but just to have board to work as it has been advertise as Best board for mem OC. Please make difference in my post between *working Apex*, like your one, and other 90%. Volume of sold motherboard do not change statistics. For, example I had two Unify-X boards, as on first one I had broken memory latch (that plastic which secure and pull memory from memory slot), and both boards were able to do same 6800C30. Can you find two Apex to be able to do same 7000, without cherry picking them?
> 
> Asus and MSI are the just the same, as they are companies which try to make profit and nothing else. If you cannot understand that, I'm out of this discussion as it is pointless.


I say MSI UX is the worst 2DIMM motherboard! Because I am the MSI UX MDIE personal gamer record holder! MSI DDR5/UX MDIE record holder I am also the highest frequency personal gamer in ASUS APEX! I used to have 5 The QS IMCs are all top-notch. On the UX, a single and LN2 can be turned on at 8800MHZ without turning off the channel! But the 5 QSs are air-cooled, plus I have selected 20 sets of DDR5-6400 TFORCE&GSKILL 6400 selected by MDIE. The frequency of 7200 can't be opened on the UX! Even if I relax the parameters! I can't open the 7200. Both UXs are the same~ Then I see mainland players using the UI to easily open 7200-7400, a better 7600, and the gap between UX is not the worst On the contrary, the frequency of my ROG Z690I and ROG Z690 APEX is almost the same. The premise is that you have a normal APEX! Where is the normal UX? A motherboard that can break the world record!!!!!! In the case of 16G*2 plus the top IMC top MDIE can't drive 7200, this is not laughing at me? My UX is also expensive to buy and can't drive 7200MHZ. I have a problem with the UX dual channel all day long? No! So why is there a problem with APEX dual-channel and I have to be in the dark all day? And I did get a 22-year APEX in exchange for a regular warranty. There is no back door and it is not free. The frequency I drive is not enough for me to say that the UX is 2DIMM. Is the board the worst? I used my APEX in MDIE to open the frequency that other people need ADIE to open! Crawling by myself! I use ADIE to open the frequency that others need 13th generation + Z790 to open ! Couldn't the frequency from the APEX on my hand prove that the Z690 UNIFY-X is the worst 2DIMM?


----------



## IronAge

@Herald

2022 Apex should be just fine, should be no problem to find sb who wants to buy it.

Apex has 8 Layer PCB just like the Unify-X, but MSI just saved some $$$ by using cheaper caps instead of POS/Tantalum caps like the other 2DPC XOC Boards.


----------



## satinghostrider

Herald said:


> I got a replacement for my 2021 apex, its a 2022 version and its been sitting in the box for a couple of months. It is - according to the box - for those who dare, and im not entirely sure I do right now.
> 
> Is this guy above me telling me its gonna work properly? Should i drop my unisex and keep the apex instead? Or is it gonna fail at 5000mhz on the 1st slot like the previous apex... Questions questions


My 2022 Apex works flawlessly well with 6800C32 1.5V for almost 6 months now. Zero crash, zero TM5 errors. Many 2021 Apex won't be stable past 6000/6200Mhz for any kit I've tested. You should give it a try. Pretty average CPU here SP84 12900K.


----------



## whitearmor

sulalin said:


> I say MSI UX is the worst 2DIMM motherboard! Because I am the MSI UX MDIE personal gamer record holder! MSI DDR5/UX MDIE record holder I am also the highest frequency personal gamer in ASUS APEX! I used to have 5 The QS IMCs are all top-notch. On the UX, a single and LN2 can be turned on at 8800MHZ without turning off the channel! But the 5 QSs are air-cooled, plus I have selected 20 sets of DDR5-6400 TFORCE&GSKILL 6400 selected by MDIE. The frequency of 7200 can't be opened on the UX! Even if I relax the parameters! I can't open the 7200. Both UXs are the same~ Then I see mainland players using the UI to easily open 7200-7400, a better 7600, and the gap between UX is not the worst On the contrary, the frequency of my ROG Z690I and ROG Z690 APEX is almost the same. The premise is that you have a normal APEX! Where is the normal UX? A motherboard that can break the world record!!!!!! In the case of 16G*2 plus the top IMC top MDIE can't drive 7200, this is not laughing at me? My UX is also expensive to buy and can't drive 7200MHZ. I have a problem with the UX dual channel all day long? No! So why is there a problem with APEX dual-channel and I have to be in the dark all day? And I did get a 22-year APEX in exchange for a regular warranty. There is no back door and it is not free. The frequency I drive is not enough for me to say that the UX is 2DIMM. Is the board the worst? I used my APEX in MDIE to open the frequency that other people need ADIE to open! Crawling by myself! I use ADIE to open the frequency that others need 13th generation + Z790 to open ! Couldn't the frequency from the APEX on my hand prove that the Z690 UNIFY-X is the worst 2DIMM?


So in your experience, the UI(and it’s Z790I EDGE analog respectively) is generally good at reaching relatively high frequencies(7400-7800)? I am looking for a placeholder motherboard before the new APEX reviews, so will be thankful for the advice from MEM OC point.


----------



## sulalin

bigfootnz said:


> 對於每一個帖子，您都試圖捍衛 Apex，就像它是某種聖杯一樣。看看你的回放給我看。您曾說過 Unify-X 是所有 2-dimm 板中最差的。這樣做的原因是什麼，除了為華碩辯護並說 MSI 是多麼垃圾。我什麼時候說過 Unify-X 比*工作 Apex更好*? 但是，嘿，你有理由這麼說，Unify-X 是垃圾？我很抱歉，但每次使用當前的 Apex 賭博時，我都會接受這個 Unify-X 廢話。我不同意您的帖子，但這毫無意義，因為您已經確定沒有人有權質疑 Apex 質量。這就是為什麼這裡的每個人都說從用戶角度來看 Apex Z690 是垃圾的唯一原因，正如你所說，只有 10% 的董事會正在按照他們應該的方式工作。其他 90% 甚至比 4 個調光板中的大多數都差。那麼當他們說你有黃金樣本時，為什麼你要附上每個人呢？
> 為什麼包括您在內的任何人都必須購買多塊電路板才能找到一個正常工作的電路板？我不是在談論分箱，因為這是完全不同的事情，而只是讓板子工作，因為它一直被宣傳為 mem OC 的最佳板子。請在我的帖子中區分*工作 Apex*和其他 90% 的人。售出主板數量不變統計。例如，我有兩塊 Unify-X 板，因為在第一塊上我的內存閂鎖（用於固定內存插槽並從內存插槽中拉出內存的塑料）損壞了，並且兩塊板都能夠執行相同的 6800C30。你能找到兩個 Apex 來做同樣的 7000，而不用摘櫻桃嗎？
> 
> 華碩和微星是一樣的，因為它們都是試圖盈利而不是其他的公司。如果您不能理解這一點，我將退出此討論，因為它毫無意義。
> [/引用]
> 如果你只需要6800c30那我就告訴你
> 你可以用Z690 A-PRO 因為我可以用Z690 APRO SAMSUNG IC/ MDIE 得到7000C32 44 44 28，但是電壓更高！
> 或者直接買Z690I UNIFY，直接打開MDIE 7000/7200/7400
> 按照你的邏輯，你可以發現UX能打開MDIE 7400 7600，全世界都找不到一半！這個概率不就是APEX的10%嗎？
> UX 我見過 ADIE 高達 7800 MHZ。這是正常的嗎？目前看到的2DIMM板子大多是超頻板子，但是除了UX，我沒見過8000MHZ 16G*2，不是最差的2DIMM。
> 能穩定驅動6800C30是正常的！拉屎！微星Z690 A-PRO可以驅動6800-7000 16G*2 MDIE！這不是很好笑嗎？
> ROG Z690I +SAMSUNG IC 7200-7500OK 所以UX不是最差的2DIMM？


----------



## energie80

my unify x can mana 7000mhz no problem, am i lucky?


----------



## sulalin

whitearmor said:


> So in your experience, the UI(and it’s Z790I EDGE analog respectively) is generally good at reaching relatively high frequencies(7400-7800)? I am looking for a placeholder motherboard before the new APEX reviews, so will be thankful for the advice from MEM OC point.


12th generation CPU+Z790 APEX I don't know how the performance is!
But the 13th generation CPU+Z790 APEX +T-FORCE ADIE is basically 8000MHZ stable and over-tested!
8200MHZ must be able to open, otherwise what is the 13th generation CPU+Z790 doing!
I have had PO before the 13th generation CPU+Z790 APEX 8000MHZ RUNMEMTEST7.0 stable over-test pictures


----------



## sulalin

energie80 said:


> my unify x can mana 7000mhz no problem, am i lucky?





energie80 said:


> my unify x can mana 7000mhz no problem, am i lucky?


IMC almost can't open 7000!!! But IMC can't open 7200/7400, let alone 7600 MDIE.


----------



## sulalin

IronAge said:


> you are invited to send me one of the golden apple Apex regular buyers can not pick up here in Europe and i will stop complaining, no problem.
> it is sure fair game that somebody who is affiliated to Asus and gets the good stuff for free mocks about people that spent 2000$ or more for  motherboards with issues.


I'm also envious of those who have free or free motherboards...because I have to spend my own money on them....


----------



## sulalin

bigfootnz said:


> With every post you trying to defend Apex like it is some kind holy grail. Just look your replay to me. You have stated that Unify-X is worst of all 2-dimm boards. What is reason for that, except to defend Asus and to say how MSI is crap. When did I say that Unify-X is better than *working Apex*? But, hey you have find reason to say that, Unify-X is crap? I'm sorry but I would take this Unify-X crap every time over gamble with current Apex. I disagree with your post, but this is pointless as are already set your mind that nobody has right to questions Apex quality. And this is only reason why everybody here are saying that Apex Z690 from user perspective is crap, as just as you said, only 10% of the board are working how they should be. Other 90% are worse than even most of 4 dimm boards. Then why you are attaching evrybody when they say that you have golden sample?
> Why would anybody, including you, should have to buy multiple boards to find one which is working as it should do? I'm not talking about binning, as this is completely different matter, but just to have board to work as it has been advertise as Best board for mem OC. Please make difference in my post between *working Apex*, like your one, and other 90%. Volume of sold motherboard do not change statistics. For, example I had two Unify-X boards, as on first one I had broken memory latch (that plastic which secure and pull memory from memory slot), and both boards were able to do same 6800C30. Can you find two Apex to be able to do same 7000, without cherry picking them?
> 
> Asus and MSI are the just the same, as they are companies which try to make profit and nothing else. If you cannot understand that, I'm out of this discussion as it is pointless.


The APEX I bought at the beginning was all 21 years old. How do you know that I didn't scold ASUS? Do you have to come up here to scold?!
By overcoming, I can directly say that my ROG Z690I can drive 7200-7400MHZ. Why is my APEX having difficulty with 6800-7000! What have I experienced you know? ?????
How do I apply for the warranty and how to call ASUS this is a serious flaw, you know? If you don't know these experiences, don't look at anything with your limited vision!


----------



## sulalin

bigfootnz said:


> 我不明白為什麼總是要為華碩辯護，就像他們的產品一樣，以及他們對 Apex Z690 所做的事情。甚至華碩也承認他們對 Apex 有很大的問題，因此所有這些退款/退貨。
> 
> 沒有人會質疑Apex 的*工作*是否比 Unify-X 更好。但是有多少人抱怨 Apex 而另一方面又有多少人抱怨 Unify-X？是的，帶 M-die 的 Unify-X 不能超過 7000，即使 7000 也非常難，但幾乎每個板都可以使用簡單的 6800。另一方面，有多少 Apex 會達到 6800 或更高？在售出的百分比中，我可以說這個數字很小。
> 
> 你對你的 OC 和 Apex 所取得的成就非常好，你不應該試圖為華碩做 PR 並試圖為他們辯護。
> [/引用]
> My DDR4 B560 APRO can open 6133 6200 6400 ON AIR, you tell me Z690 UX 6800MHZ is normal?


----------



## pipes

IronAge said:


> @pipes
> 
> Z690 Dark been available for around 600€ @ Amazon Germany, you should be able to buy it via Amazon Germany as well, ~640€ ATM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVGA Z690 Dark K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2,5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, I. ntel Motherboard, schwarz: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
> 
> 
> EVGA Z690 Dark K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR, LGA 1700, Intel Z690, PCIe Gen5, SATA 6Gb/s, 2,5Gb/s LAN, WiFi6E/BT5.2, USB 3.2 Gen2x2, M.2, U.2, EATX, I. ntel Motherboard, schwarz - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> instead of fiddling around with another crapped Apex i should have bought that one, now i wait for Z790.


 unfortunately they don't ship to Italy


----------



## IronAge

pipes said:


> unfortunately they don't ship to Italy


that's indeed weird, since it gets shipped from Amazon Global Store in the USA.


----------



## pipes

IronAge said:


> that's indeed weird, since it gets shipped from Amazon Global Store in the USA.


in fact on amazon.us they can send to my address but not to the German one









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Thunderclap

@sulalin

Do you think this means the cheapest DDR5 Z790 motherboards from MSI (PRO Z790-P and PRO Z790-A) will be able to run the 7200/7400 memory kits at XMP without any issue? Seems that both are rated quite high at "7000MHz+ OC" and "7200MHz+ OC" (for Z790-P and Z790-A respectively) which would mean they should be enough for most people. All other mid range to high end 4DIMM boards just seem obnoxiously overpriced and I doubt they will offer that much improvement when it comes to memory OC, tbh.


----------



## CptSpig

This green A-Die is crazy good! My G.Skill 6400 Hynix does 7000 stable at 1.610v and the Green sticks do 7000 stable at 1.380v. I will post screen shots this weekend.


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## pipes

CptSpig said:


> This green A-Die is crazy good! My G.Skill 6400 Hynix does 7000 stable at 1.610v and the Green sticks do 7000 stable at 1.380v. I will post screen shots this weekend.


What model are?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## CptSpig

pipes said:


> What model are?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

CptSpig said:


>


It unreadable serial number

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## z390e

No its readable, just zoom it, its different SN than the Green Hynix @Splave is selling over on hwbot too


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## CptSpig

pipes said:


> It unreadable serial number
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


HMCG78AGBUA081N BA


----------



## CptSpig

z390e said:


> No its readable, just zoom it, its different SN than the Green Hynix @Splave is selling over on hwbot too


The serial number is different because each stick has it's own number. Same ram that Splave has for sale.


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## z390e

Yeah PN# is the same, its just S/N thats different, which is what he was asking about.


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## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I guess I am taking one for the "TEAM" by buying the v colors
> 
> I honestly didnt mean to check out just wanted to see price and I thought I had another step left before final checkout. oh well. It is only money


afaik they are the oem for giga rams


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## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> afaik they are the oem for giga rams


How is the z790 Apex 

I know, I know NDA 😁


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> How is the z790 Apex
> 
> I know, I know NDA 😁


no idea.

what i find interesting is the A die vs M die
Mdie very finicky on trfc just like those hynix ddr4 kits were. they have to operate within a certain range until you hit a wall in frequency /trfc pairing. A die looks like did not inherited this trait

still looking for 10 layer pcb unlock adie


----------



## cstkl1

whitearmor said:


> So in your experience, the UI(and it’s Z790I EDGE analog respectively) is generally good at reaching relatively high frequencies(7400-7800)? I am looking for a placeholder motherboard before the new APEX reviews, so will be thankful for the advice from MEM OC point.


i can shed some info on z690 fiasco
putting aside the z690 apex 21 problems

ddr5 when it was launched, aib didnt get help from intel. initially it was micron/samsung chipsets.. hynix became available later on in very limited supply. and then u have the various pmic.
theres like a thousand knobs for the aib ram fae to mess with in ddr5. the only help board partners got was from the ram manufacturers.

everyday a new new assumptions of limits were deduced and challenged. so many diff combis diff results.

z790 apparently doesnt have the flaws of z690. is it by board design or ucode or cpu imc or ram ddr5 maturity ?. no idea.

but as always its still early adopters.

z690 pro was the 12th gen cpu stability compared to the woes of 10th gen and amd offering was my take on it. DDR5 fiasco. this was a sad part for early adopters.

also every ucode updates can mess up a fae previous tuning. Asus always supports intel/amd latest ucode/agesa.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> i can shed some info on z690 fiasco
> putting aside the z690 apex 21 problems
> 
> ddr5 when it was launched, aib didnt get help from intel. initially it was micron/samsung chipsets.. hynix became available later on in very limited supply. and then u have the various pmic.
> theres like a thousand knobs for the aib ram fae to mess with in ddr5. the only help board partners got was from the ram manufacturers.
> 
> everyday a new new assumptions of limits were deduced and challenged. so many diff combis diff results.
> 
> z790 apparently doesnt have the flaws of z690. is it by board design or ucode or cpu imc or ram ddr5 maturity ?. no idea.
> 
> but as always its still early adopters.
> 
> z690 pro was the 12th gen cpu stability compared to the woes of 10th gen and amd offering was my take on it. DDR5 fiasco. this was a sad part for early adopters.
> 
> also every ucode updates can mess up a fae previous tuning. Asus always supports intel/amd latest ucode/agesa.


the king returns


----------



## Herald

satinghostrider said:


> My 2022 Apex works flawlessly well with 6800C32 1.5V for almost 6 months now. Zero crash, zero TM5 errors. Many 2021 Apex won't be stable past 6000/6200Mhz for any kit I've tested. You should give it a try. Pretty average CPU here SP84 12900K.


Thanks, but isnt that something a unify X can also achieve?


----------



## z390e

The TeamGroup 7200's are available for "back order" on Newegg as of about 30m ago, fwiw. Expected 10/14






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com


----------



## whitearmor

cstkl1 said:


> i can shed some info on z690 fiasco
> putting aside the z690 apex 21 problems
> 
> ddr5 when it was launched, aib didnt get help from intel. initially it was micron/samsung chipsets.. hynix became available later on in very limited supply. and then u have the various pmic.
> theres like a thousand knobs for the aib ram fae to mess with in ddr5. the only help board partners got was from the ram manufacturers.
> 
> everyday a new new assumptions of limits were deduced and challenged. so many diff combis diff results.
> 
> z790 apparently doesnt have the flaws of z690. is it by board design or ucode or cpu imc or ram ddr5 maturity ?. no idea.
> 
> but as always its still early adopters.
> 
> z690 pro was the 12th gen cpu stability compared to the woes of 10th gen and amd offering was my take on it. DDR5 fiasco. this was a sad part for early adopters.
> 
> also every ucode updates can mess up a fae previous tuning. Asus always supports intel/amd latest ucode/agesa.


Thanks for some insights, Z790 Apex looking so delicious.

Still currently my main concern that the release date of APEX is uncertain, and I need some mb to use as the placeholder until APEX will be available. I am looking on Z790I Edge as it’s direct successor of Z690I Unify. The thing, I am hearing varied reviews on the Unify-I, so maybe someone can share their thought on it here.


----------



## bscool

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2573854
> 
> Should be A-Die? Just got delivered.


Did you get those from Newegg or somewhere else? Just wondering if anyone got them last time they were up for order from NE.


----------



## cstkl1

whitearmor said:


> Thanks for some insights, Z790 Apex looking so delicious.
> 
> Still currently my main concern that the release date of APEX is uncertain, and I need some mb to use as the placeholder until APEX will be available. I am looking on Z790I Edge as it’s direct successor of Z690I Unify. The thing, I am hearing varied reviews on the Unify-I, so maybe someone can share their thought on it here.


theres a leak pic of z790 apex?? 🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀


----------



## whitearmor

cstkl1 said:


> theres a leak pic of z790 apex?? 🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀


Unfortunately no, I’m judging just in terms of performance and quality, as @sulalin said something nice about that above (x


----------



## pipes

CptSpig said:


> HMCG78AGBUA081N BA


That ram are unfindable in my country

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jeiselramos

pipes said:


> That ram are unfindable in my country
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk











Buy SK Hynix 16GB DDR5 4800 UDIMM Gaming Memory HMCG78MEBUA081N


p align=




www.thetelecomshop.com





from Australia if you want


----------



## CptSpig

pipes said:


> That ram are unfindable in my country
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Here


----------



## Falkentyne

bscool said:


> How is the z790 Apex
> 
> I know, I know NDA 😁


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> theres a leak pic of z790 apex?? 🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀


The content written on Taiwan's website is probably as follows. Most motherboard manufacturers will list the memory compatibility in the motherboard support list. These are whether some overclocking memories on the market can run stably with this type of motherboard. Recently, GSKILL's DDR5- The 7600 passed compatibility testing with ASUS Z790 ROG Maximus Hero and Apex motherboards.

It can be seen that most of the DDR5-7200 memory in the list has passed the test of various motherboards. Among them, DDR5-7466 has two motherboards that have been tested, one DDR5-7600, 7466 and 7600 are GSKILL products, but these have not yet been listed .

13900K-DDR5-memory.png
Intel XMP 3.0 Compatibility List



https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/xmp-3-for-core-processors.html



GSKILL DDR5-7466 CL36 – F5-7466J3648G16GX2-TZ5RK Tested on ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Hero
GSKILL DDR5-7466 CL36 – F5-7466J3648G16GX2-TZ5RK Overtested on ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex
GSKILL DDR5-7600 CL36 – F5-7600J3648G16GX2-TZ5RK overtested on ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex

G.SKILL ddr5-7600


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1，帖子：29041300，成員：341829 said:


> 不知道。
> 
> 我覺得有趣的是 A die vs M die
> Mdie 對 trfc 非常挑剔，就像那些 hynix ddr4 套件一樣。它們必須在一定範圍內運行，直到您在頻率/trfc 配對中碰壁。骰子看起來沒有繼承這個特性
> 
> 仍在尋找 10 層 pcb 解鎖 adie
> [/引用]t-FORCE DDR5 ADIE KO 10PCB like those pictures i posted


----------



## sulalin

網上看到的圖片Z790 DARK


----------



## sulalin

Thunderclap said:


> @sulalin
> 
> Do you think this means the cheapest DDR5 Z790 motherboards from MSI (PRO Z790-P and PRO Z790-A) will be able to run the 7200/7400 memory kits at XMP without any issue? Seems that both are rated quite high at "7000MHz+ OC" and "7200MHz+ OC" (for Z790-P and Z790-A respectively) which would mean they should be enough for most people. All other mid range to high end 4DIMM boards just seem obnoxiously overpriced and I doubt they will offer that much improvement when it comes to memory OC, tbh.


Because of this, if you use the 13th generation CPU + Z790, no matter what 4DIMM board + DDR5 ADIE on the frequency, there will be at least a stable frequency of 7000-7200 because
The 12th generation + DDR5 MDIE 4DIMM board will limit the frequency limit that DDR5 can use!!

It is DDR5 ADIE that saves the upper limit of DDR5 frequency usage on 4DIMM motherboards!!!


----------



## sulalin

Thunderclap said:


> @sulalin
> 
> Do you think this means the cheapest DDR5 Z790 motherboards from MSI (PRO Z790-P and PRO Z790-A) will be able to run the 7200/7400 memory kits at XMP without any issue? Seems that both are rated quite high at "7000MHz+ OC" and "7200MHz+ OC" (for Z790-P and Z790-A respectively) which would mean they should be enough for most people. All other mid range to high end 4DIMM boards just seem obnoxiously overpriced and I doubt they will offer that much improvement when it comes to memory OC, tbh.


MSI's low-priced version has the same memory overclocking capability as the high-priced MEG series or even better!!! I have bought nearly 30 B560 Z590 Z690 MSI boards, including 20 of the MEG series!!! I used it before B560 APRO easy dual with 6133 6200 6400 ON AIR even my M13A Z590 UNIFY-X can't 6200 or 6400 8G*2 Z590 APRO even has the same overclocking ability as Z590 I UNIFY but only for MSI I can guarantee low price 4DIMM MSI There is no difference in overclocking ability with high-end MEG 4DIMM board memory!!


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> i can shed some info on z690 fiasco
> putting aside the z690 apex 21 problems
> 
> ddr5 when it was launched, aib didnt get help from intel. initially it was micron/samsung chipsets.. hynix became available later on in very limited supply. and then u have the various pmic.
> theres like a thousand knobs for the aib ram fae to mess with in ddr5. the only help board partners got was from the ram manufacturers.
> 
> everyday a new new assumptions of limits were deduced and challenged. so many diff combis diff results.
> 
> z790 apparently doesnt have the flaws of z690. is it by board design or ucode or cpu imc or ram ddr5 maturity ?. no idea.
> 
> but as always its still early adopters.
> 
> z690 pro was the 12th gen cpu stability compared to the woes of 10th gen and amd offering was my take on it. DDR5 fiasco. this was a sad part for early adopters.
> 
> also every ucode updates can mess up a fae previous tuning. Asus always supports intel/amd latest ucode/agesa.


At the beginning, both ASUS and MSI put DDR5 on the SAMSUNG IC, so the BIOS is almost always optimized for the SAMSUNG IC. You can see that HYNIX MDIE starts. Some BIOSes will appear earlier than the SAMSUNG IC, but it is more difficult to open the MDIE with high frequency!


----------



## sulalin

whitearmor said:


> Thanks for some insights, Z790 Apex looking so delicious.
> 
> Still currently my main concern that the release date of APEX is uncertain, and I need some mb to use as the placeholder until APEX will be available. I am looking on Z790I Edge as it’s direct successor of Z690I Unify. The thing, I am hearing varied reviews on the Unify-I, so maybe someone can share their thought on it here.
> [/引用]
> By the way, in the past, ITX boards did not have an external Clock Generator.
> Very important for overclocking the CPU frequency at the memory frequency!!!!
> 
> If there is an external FSB, it can be pulled up a little higher. Like my CPU, the FSB can be pulled to 111.7~112.0. This frequency can be opened at 8000MHZ and pulled to 8936MHZ. This FSB has an extra frequency of 936MHZ.


----------



## cstkl1

dont see the marking indicating layer count bro. 

normally its arnd the edge somewhere they suppose to write


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1，帖子：29041405，成員：341829 said:


> 沒有看到指示層數的標籤兄弟。
> 
> 最初是他們想寫的地方的邊界
> [/引用] KO-10 = 1層 KO-80電影第8層第2張圖是NEO FORZA MDIE KO-8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/引用]


----------



## cstkl1

can see the corner right bottom of second pic? is that "10"


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> can see the corner right bottom of second pic? is that "10"





cstkl1 said:


> can see the corner right bottom of second pic? is that "10"


No doubt this is what TEAM says they are #KO10LayersRGB
No doubt this is what TEAM says they are #KO10LayersRGB


----------



## cstkl1

sulalin said:


> No doubt this is what TEAM says they are #KO10LayersRGB
> View attachment 2574872


lol kevin wu. breaker of nda. 

normally on thr pcb got number marking at the corners


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> lol kevin wu. breaker of nda.
> 
> normally on thr pcb got number marking at the corners


This is KO-8KOLayersRGB There is no place to write 8 on the board


----------



## cstkl1

sulalin said:


> This is KO-8KOLayersRGB There is no place to write 8 on the board
> View attachment 2574876
> 
> View attachment 2574875


ic. pic u got high res ones?


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> ic. pic u got high res ones?


It's a pity no... this was all taken casually with a mobile phone before.


----------



## cstkl1

sulalin said:


> It's a pity no... this was all taken casually with a mobile phone before.












u see the 8 horizontal.. this is corsair 6600kit


----------



## cstkl1

guess the rams from hsien jinn that team and gskill uses a "KO" code instead of writing arnd the corners


----------



## CptSpig

Look at the voltage difference between G,Skill 6400 M-Die and Green Sticks 5600 A-Die. Good timings on the A-Die.


----------



## asdkj1740

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Look at my 10k Jordans and my 15k with of hardware! 😂 ****, the scene is so dead at this point.
> 
> We're not Chinese Mafia and don't have hardware sent to us for free.


it is said that he may be the only one in taiwan who buy stuffs by his own money, and does not return them to the store after binning.


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> 準備好您的 T-FORCE DDR5 ADIE 每套手工挑選的，必須在 Z790 4DIMM 上 16G*2 7600/7800MHZ 1.35V~1.4V 穩定過測試每套手工挑选和測試的質量！！保證！！！
> KO 10PCB
> View attachment 2574758
> 
> View attachment 2574757
> 
> View attachment 2574756
> 
> View attachment 2574801


can these run on gigabyte z790 master at 7800mhz passing stress tests?


----------



## IronAge

@Streamroller 

*Z690 Unify-X* | *13700KF*

you have got retail 13700KF and you can probably show VID Points ?


----------



## pipes

IronAge said:


> @Streamroller
> 
> *Z690 Unify-X* | *13700KF*
> 
> you have got retail 13700KF and you can probably show VID Points ?


Where can buy 13700kf? Is it available?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## energie80

20/10


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

IronAge said:


> @Streamroller
> 
> *Z690 Unify-X* | *13700KF*
> 
> you have got retail 13700KF and you can probably show VID Points ?


come on bro 😄 Im lazy to write my current cpu which i edit again in 10 day later


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> Where can buy 13700kf? Is it available?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Preorder everywhere



https://www.komplett.no/product/1218673/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/prosessorer/intel-core-i7-13700k-cpu


----------



## IronAge

in fact i got some cpus from komplett before official release (earlier gens, some years back)


----------



## Gking62

Hey all, any advice on running the Kingston 2x32GB set (KF556C40BBK2-64, SK Hynix) at XMP successfully passing MemTest86? I posted over @ the Maximus owner's thread below, any advice would be very welcomed, thank you.









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Just curious, is anyone running the Kingston KF556C40BBK2-64 2x32GB kit on their Extreme or any other board by chance? As I posted several weeks ago I had a stick of GSkill F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K go bad so rather than risk any more bad sticks from them, I opted instead for the fresh on...




www.overclock.net


----------



## LazyGamer

Gking62 said:


> Hey all, any advice on running the Kingston 2x32GB set (KF556C40BBK2-64, SK Hynix) at XMP successfully passing MemTest86? I posted over @ the Maximus owner's thread below, any advice would be very welcomed, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Just curious, is anyone running the Kingston KF556C40BBK2-64 2x32GB kit on their Extreme or any other board by chance? As I posted several weeks ago I had a stick of GSkill F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K go bad so rather than risk any more bad sticks from them, I opted instead for the fresh on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Have these on my MEG Z690 ACE - they're stable at XMP, no higher. I did find that there was some instability with the CPU running VDD2 at 1.15v, and bumping to 1.20v helped. But that's MSI not ASUS, so try to play around with it and see - I also use an ALSEYE cooler for the RAM.


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP / 4DIMM motherboard / 13th generation CPU
1.35V #KO-10LayersRGB


----------



## whitearmor

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP / 4DIMM motherboard / 13th generation CPU
> 1.35V #KO-10LayersRGB
> View attachment 2575070


Seems good, RAM on air or watercooled?
Need it officially released ASAP


----------



## Nizzen

whitearmor said:


> Seems good, RAM on air or watercooled?
> Need it officially released ASAP


This low voltage A-die is very easy to cool, so there is no problem using active aircooled 7600+ 
If you look at the picture, it says 43c, and that's not watercooled. It's air.

Even the high voltage A-die it's pretty easy to cool with active aircooling. Though, watercooled makes everything more easy


----------



## jeiselramos

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP / 4DIMM motherboard / 13th generation CPU
> 1.35V #KO-10LayersRGB
> View attachment 2575070


Where did you find this version of runmemtestpro?


----------



## bscool

jeiselramos said:


> Where did you find this version of runmemtestpro?











_RunmemtestPro5.0.2860.443.7z


7Z File



1drv.ms





At the top you can click info tab to show or hide ram/cpu info.


----------



## sulalin

whitearmor said:


> 看起來不錯，RAM 風冷還是水冷？
> 需要盡快正式發布
> [/引用]
> 
> 
> whitearmor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 看起來不錯，RAM 風冷還是水冷？
> 需要盡快正式發布
> [/引用]Air cooling! No fan blowing! No heat sink
Click to expand...


----------



## sulalin

RUNMEMTESTPRO 7.0 1.0.0 FOR 13TH CPU 
Execute this installation file in the folder before use: windowsdesktop-runtime-5.0.9-win-x64





RPLRunMemtestPro_5.1.rar







drive.google.com




rinmemtestpro7.0 1.0.0


----------



## sulalin

whitearmor said:


> Seems good, RAM on air or watercooled?
> Need it officially released ASAP








十銓DDR5-7200XMP CL34-4242-84 1.4V_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


十銓DDR5 7200XMP CL34 4242 84 1.4V 不要再被台灣無良廠商OLOY 跟 專薛大陸人錢的某大 合作的什麼MPOWER騙了!!!!! MDIE OLOY6200 還被騙不夠 ADIE一起湊來騙!!!!!!! 鹹魚一組1500R海力士ADIE普條 8400/8500空冷雙通不放參數隨便開 OLOY一組32XX 29XX的 不就最少要能開 8800雙通 >, 视频播放量 1963、弹幕量 1、点赞数 16、投硬币枚数 8、收藏人数 6、转发人数 7, 视频作者 OCHIANG, 作者简介...




www.bilibili.com




t-force ddr5 7800MHZ 4DIMM RUNmemtestpro 7.0 1.35V


----------



## sulalin

jeiselramos said:


> Where did you find this version of runmemtestpro?








RPLRunMemtestPro_5.1.rar







drive.google.com




Execute this installation file in the folder before use: windowsdesktop-runtime-5.0.9-win-x64


----------



## cstkl1

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP / 4DIMM motherboard / 13th generation CPU
> 1.35V #KO-10LayersRGB
> View attachment 2575070


errr thats asus extreme.
nda broken . 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. vcore latch?


----------



## cstkl1

must be kevin wu


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX DDR5-8800MHZ~9022MHZ Single Air Cooling Direct Open BIOS Full Settings


Spoiler: Z690 APEX BIOS SETTINGS


----------



## owikh84

Damn, I finally learned that Open = Boot 🤣
Btw nice to see RAM vendor binning RAM kits on a 4dimm mobo.


----------



## Falkentyne

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP / 4DIMM motherboard / 13th generation CPU
> 1.35V #KO-10LayersRGB
> View attachment 2575070


That 4 dimm motherboard is the z790 extreme.
you have the extra vcore 0 sensor which should be removed or hidden. At least hide the voltages next time....


----------



## rulik006

Someone said here that 4dimm Asus Z690-F Strix can handle 6800, it's true. This board can do black magic stuff - 6800 stable.
On hand MSI Z690 Force and EVGA Z690 Classified they no where near to this, max boot 6667 and stable only 6400 with M-die


Spoiler: TX VDDQ 1.33/ IMC 1.29 / VDD 1.43, VDDQ 1.40
















Spoiler: TX VDDQ 1.36, IMC 1.33 / VDD 1.43, VDDQ 1.40


----------



## sulalin

rulik006，帖子：29041900，成員：457124 said:


> 這裡有人說4dimm華碩Z690-F Strix可以處理6800，是真的。這塊板可以做黑魔法的東西 - 6800 穩定。
> 手頭 MSI Z690 Force 和 EVGA Z690 分類他們離這個很遠，最大啟動 6667 和穩定只有 6400
> 
> 
> Spoiler: TX VDDQ 1.33/IMC 1.29 / VDD 1.43, VDDQ 1.40
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575122
> 
> 
> 
> [劇透=“TX VDDQ 1.36，IMC 1.33 / VDD 1.43，VDDQ 1.40”]
> View attachment 2575123
> 
> View attachment 2575125
> [/劇透]
> [/引用]


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Where's all this new memory at?


----------



## opt33

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Where's all this new memory at?


Taiwan, none in the US yet.


----------



## bscool

v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK) at Amazon.com


Buy v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





I ordered mine direct from v color on Friday and the tracking info show they should be here Tuesday.

Oloys A die can be found on HWbot ddr5 discord.


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK) at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered mine direct from v color on Friday and the tracking info show they should be here Tuesday.
> 
> Oloys A die can be found on HWbot ddr5 discord.


That is fast from taiwan...ill probably order from there as well, doesnt look like newegg stock is coming any faster.


----------



## bscool

opt33 said:


> That is fast from taiwan...ill probably order from there as well, doesnt look like newegg stock is coming any faster.


I choose the cheapest shipping and they sent it FedEx International Priority($33). Note sure how much faster the more expensive($39) shipping would be.


----------



## Gking62

LazyGamer said:


> Have these on my MEG Z690 ACE - they're stable at XMP, no higher. I did find that there was some instability with the CPU running VDD2 at 1.15v, and bumping to 1.20v helped. But that's MSI not ASUS, so try to play around with it and see - I also use an ALSEYE cooler for the RAM.


Thanks, yes mine was stable also on 1601 BIOS until I flashed to 2004 then it all went to crap. For now while I await faster 64GB kits or a better BIOS, I just want stable XMP back.


----------



## energie80

bscool said:


> v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK) at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered mine direct from v color on Friday and the tracking info show they should be here Tuesday.
> 
> Oloys A die can be found on HWbot ddr5 discord.


 can you post the link to hwbot discord? thanks


----------



## bscool

energie80 said:


> can you post the link to hwbot discord? thanks


You have to have a hwbot account and have submitted at least 1 bench. Easiest way is to use Benchmate and do a run of whatever bench and submit thru that.

If you already knew that nevermind but for anyone who doesnt.

Welcome rules......

"Please link your HWBOT profile in discord-support so we can get you setup, you do need to have at least one valid score submitted before we will give you any perms and 5 valid scores not at stock settings to access the marketplace. We do regular clean-ups of the server and if you haven't been granted a role you will be kicked. If you have a name that doesn't match your HWBOT user profile please change it otherwise we won't grant you access to the rest of the server. By chance if you feel that haven’t been given proper permissions, please reach out to server staff for help."






BenchMate







benchmate.org










Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities


Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.




discord.gg


----------



## Gking62

for 64GB (5600) Hynix kits, how high should vccsa and mem controller voltage be? mine are both auto, 1.25v & 1.35 respectively


----------



## bscool

Gking62 said:


> for 64GB (5600) Hynix kits, how high should vccsa and mem controller voltage be? mine are both auto, 1.25v & 1.35 respectively


If 2004 is unstable for you why dont you swtich to your other bios and use 1601 or whatever bios you said was stable? Your MB has dual bios.


----------



## Gking62

bscool said:


> If 2004 is unstable for you why dont you swtich to your other bios and use 1601 or whatever bios you said was stable? Your MB has dual bios.


respectively of course there is dual bios but I'm trying to work thru this if you don't mind and then perhaps go to that...

so for the time being I switched to the other bios, v 0238 (09/22/2021) yikes so will flash to 1601 unless best to another version, 1505 was good too


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

May be a dumb question, but how are people able to run 6667mhz on Asus boards? Do you have to use 1:1 memory frequency ratio? Ive tried several times, but cant boot or complete POST at 6667


----------



## acoustic

Use 133 strap


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

acoustic said:


> Use 133 strap


Thats obvious. I use the 100:133 ratio, and i can not boot or post


----------



## acoustic

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Thats obvious. I use the 100:133 ratio, and i can not boot or post


dunno. works fine for boot/post for me


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK) at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy v-Color DDR5 XPrism Hynix A-DIE 32GB(16GBx2) 7200MHz 2Gx8 CL36 1.45V for Intel(7200Mhz) and AMD(6200MHz) RGB Gaming Desktop Upgrade RAM Memory Module - Mirrored Silver(TMXPL1672834SWK): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered mine direct from v color on Friday and the tracking info show they should be here Tuesday.
> 
> Oloys A die can be found on HWbot ddr5 discord.


Does that RAM have an unlocked PMIC anyone know?


----------



## Agent-A01

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> May be a dumb question, but how are people able to run 6667mhz on Asus boards? Do you have to use 1:1 memory frequency ratio? Ive tried several times, but cant boot or complete POST at 6667


You always use a 1:2 ratio on DDR5, 1:1 will never work


----------



## bscool

KedarWolf said:


> Does that RAM have an unlocked PMIC anyone know?


No idea. I dont of know anyone that has it.

I went to their website to see if I could find anything about the PMIC and saw Intel XMP 7800MHz

But when I click on the 7800 it takes me to the 7200 kit. I wonder if they have a 7800 kit coming.

I have a kit of the 7200 that should be here in a couple days and I can post what I find.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> No idea. I dont of know anyone that has it.
> 
> I went to their website to see if I could find anything about the PMIC and saw Intel XMP 7800MHz
> 
> But when I click on the 7800 it takes me to the 7200 kit. I wonder if they have a 7800 kit coming.
> 
> I have a kit of the 7200 that should be here in a couple days and I can post what I find.


no shipping to MY


----------



## sulalin

fitnessgrampacertest，發布：29042173，成員：676790 said:


> 這很明顯。我使用 100:133 的比例，我無法啟動或發布
> [/引用]
> 有的CPU開度100:100比較容易開，有的CPU開度100:133比較容易開，視情況而定。


----------



## sulalin

KedarWolf，發布：29042185，成員：350041 said:


> 有人知道那個 RAM 有沒有解鎖的 PMIC 嗎？
> [/引用]Almost all V-color ddr5 are OC PMIC, especially this kind of overclocking memory!


----------



## KedarWolf

That RAM is so ugly.


----------



## LazyGamer

Selling through Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/v-Color-7200MHz-Compatible-6200MHz-Desktop/dp/B0BHH6K2H2?th=1

2x 8GB A-die - 7200MT/s for XMP / Intel, *6200MT/s* for EXPO / AMD.

More and more, it seems that Zen 4 won't be pushing to higher memory speeds.


----------



## KedarWolf

LazyGamer said:


> Selling through Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/v-Color-7200MHz-Compatible-6200MHz-Desktop/dp/B0BHH6K2H2?th=1
> 
> 2x 8GB A-die - 7200MT/s for XMP / Intel, *6200MT/s* for EXPO / AMD.
> 
> More and more, it seems that Zen 4 won't be pushing to higher memory speeds.


It's cheaper on their USA website.

Actually, when you check out, there is a $20 fee for taxes, making it the same. I think the $20 is a scam thing to raise the price because it doesn't actually calculate the tax from where you're ordering it from.


----------



## bscool

KedarWolf said:


> It's cheaper on their USA website.
> 
> Actually, when you check out, there is a $20 fee for taxes, making it the same. I think the $20 is a scam thing to raise the price because it doesn't actually calculate the tax from where you're ordering it from.


When I actually checked out they didnt charge me taxes. It initially showed it though. N yeah I agree ugliest ddr5 yet 😁


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> When I actually checked out they didnt charge me taxes. It initially showed it though. N yeah I agree ugliest ddr5 yet 😁


Who care when they are watercooled anyway


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> When I actually checked out they didnt charge me taxes. It initially showed it though. N yeah I agree ugliest ddr5 yet 😁


their website usd20 cheaper, ships anywhere, payment via paypal


----------



## bscool

Nizzen said:


> Who care when they are watercooled anyway


Might actually be the reason I finally buy ram blocks 🙃


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> their website usd20 cheaper, ships anywhere, payment via paypal


I ordered directly from v color website.









[Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory


【Compatibility】 Dual profiles ready. Supports Intel XMP and AMD EXPO. 【BUILT FOR EXTREME OVERCLOCKING】 With SK Hynix A-die and on-board PMIC (Power Management Integrated Circuit) chips ensuring extreme overclocking performance, faster speeds, frequency and long-term stability . 【PRODUCT...




v-color.net





Edit no I didnt order m2 dummy they must have too many "We also sent 1pc free sample of M.2 dummy and 1pc v-color magnet to you."


----------



## ThinbinJim

bscool said:


> I ordered directly from v color website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory
> 
> 
> 【Compatibility】 Dual profiles ready. Supports Intel XMP and AMD EXPO. 【BUILT FOR EXTREME OVERCLOCKING】 With SK Hynix A-die and on-board PMIC (Power Management Integrated Circuit) chips ensuring extreme overclocking performance, faster speeds, frequency and long-term stability . 【PRODUCT...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit no I didnt order m2 dummy they must have too many "We also sent 1pc free sample of M.2 dummy and 1pc v-color magnet to you."


I received my sticks yesterday. They remind me of Trident Z Royal Silvers and look way better IRL than they do in renders.


















FYI - Mine has locked PMIC, can't say for sure yours will be. I can't get it to load windows with xmp if vdd / vddq are set higher than 1.435v.


----------



## bscool

@ThinbinJim

What MB and bios are you using?


----------



## ThinbinJim

Z690 UNIFY-X and A70 bios


----------



## acoustic

ThinbinJim said:


> Z690 UNIFY-X and A70 bios


Did you enable Unlocked PMIC Mode in Advanced DDR Config -> PMIC Config


----------



## ThinbinJim

acoustic said:


> Did you enable Unlocked PMIC Mode in Advanced DDR Config -> PMIC Config


Yes, already tried but it does nothing


----------



## acoustic

ThinbinJim said:


> Yes, already tried but it does nothing


Is it a Renesas PMIC? Super weird.. wonder if it could be the sticks at fault.


----------



## IronAge

ThinbinJim said:


> Z690 UNIFY-X and A70 bios


There is A72U3 Bios with A-Die Support ?!



https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797667936578830356/1012385144667131994/E7D28IMS.A72U3.zip





> Fixed some oem green sticks anomaly
> Fixed rpl multiplier cap
> Fixed a-die high freq posting
> Fixed a-die 7400+ memtest stability
> Improved Dr a-die
> New ucode for rpl. But the ring ratio cant be locked weird bug is still there（seems like only for adl)


----------



## acoustic

A7 came out after A72U3; should already have that, but couldn't hurt to try it, I suppose.

MSI identifies BETA with second number. 70 is official release, 71, 72, 75, etc would be BETA of 7x.


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE DDR5-7200XMP OC 7800MHZ /Z790 4DIMM 16G*2 memtest


----------



## sulalin

ThinbinJim，帖子：29042384，成員：644275 said:


> 我昨天收到了我的棍子。它們讓我想起了 Trident Z Royal Silvers，並且看起來比渲染中的 IRL 更好。
> 
> View attachment 2575238
> 
> View attachment 2575239
> 
> 
> 僅供參考 - 我的 PMIC 已鎖定，不能確定您的 PMIC 是否會鎖定。如果 vdd / vddq 設置為高於 1.435v，我無法使用 xmp 加載窗口。
> [/引用]
> 到圖片中的地方查看你的記憶Pmic信息。


----------



## ThinbinJim

acoustic said:


> Is it a Renesas PMIC? Super weird.. wonder if it could be the sticks at fault.


How do I check PMIC on a UX?



IronAge said:


> There is A72U3 Bios with A-Die Support ?!
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/797667936578830356/1012385144667131994/E7D28IMS.A72U3.zip


It either works partially, or does not work. 1.45v booted into windows but 1.47v and 1.50v BSOD instantly.
Besides, the A70 bios is 2 weeks newer than A72U3. Are the changes actually applied on top of A70 or not? 


acoustic said:


> A7 came out after A72U3; should already have that, but couldn't hurt to try it, I suppose.
> 
> MSI identifies BETA with second number. 70 is official release, 71, 72, 75, etc would be BETA of 7x.


NVM just saw this


----------



## owikh84

ThinbinJim said:


> How do I check PMIC on a UX?
> 
> 
> It either works partially, or does not work. 1.45v booted into windows but 1.47v and 1.50v BSOD instantly.
> Besides, the A70 bios is 2 weeks newer than A72U3. Are the changes actually applied on top of A70 or not?
> 
> NVM just saw this


I suspect TX VDDQ can't be set too high, otherwise it won't boot well.
As we know, when TX VDDQ auto = VDD. 
So in your case, manually set TX VDDQ to 1.45v or below might solve your issue.


----------



## ThinbinJim

owikh84 said:


> I suspect TX VDDQ can't be set too high, otherwise it won't boot well.
> As we know, when TX VDDQ auto = VDD.
> So in your case, manually set TX VDDQ to 1.45v or below might solve your issue.


TX VDDQ as in CPU TX VDDQ? Or Ram VDDQ?


----------



## owikh84

ThinbinJim said:


> TX VDDQ as in CPU TX VDDQ? Or Ram VDDQ?


TX VDDQ = CPU VDDQ Voltage in MSI BIOS settings.


----------



## ThinbinJim

owikh84 said:


> TX VDDQ = CPU VDDQ Voltage in MSI BIOS settings.


I see. It's already at 1.45v, and my IMC is really bad so I doubt I can test anything below 1.4v at these ram speeds with any success.

Btw CPU TX VDDQ is typically decoupled from ram VDD/VDDQ on the Z690 UX. E.g. TX VDDQ was 1.3v with my 1.35v M-die 6000C40 kit, and 1.5v with the 1.4v A-die 7200C34 kit.


----------



## acoustic

TX VDDQ does not = VDD for me when set to Auto. I get 1.40v CPU VDD2 and 1.45v CPU TX VDDQ, with 1.41v DRAM VDD/1.39v DRAM VDDQ (DRAM voltage set manually)

Unify-X BIOS A70 / 12700K / 2x16 M-Die


----------



## jeiselramos

acoustic said:


> TX VDDQ does not = VDD for me when set to Auto. I get 1.40v CPU VDD2 and 1.45v CPU TX VDDQ, with 1.41v DRAM VDD/1.39v DRAM VDDQ (DRAM voltage set manually)
> 
> Unify-X BIOS A70 / 12700K / 2x16 M-Die


Asus board does that, at least up to 5 months ago when I used the Apex for the last time


----------



## bscool

7200 v color

PMIC secure mode disabled


----------



## warbucks

bscool said:


> 7200 v color
> 
> PMIC secure mode disabled


Nice. Take them for a spin and let us know how they do.


----------



## energie80

This doesn’t look so bad 😅


----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> This doesn’t look so bad 😅
> View attachment 2575335


Looks nice 

Now run Karhu ram test for a few hours


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

energie80 said:


> This doesn’t look so bad 😅
> View attachment 2575335


Can you share subs and tweaks aswell ? I have UX too gonna save it 

Hynix-A or M ?


----------



## energie80

gskill 6400 m die, will share in some hours


----------



## Talon2016

bscool said:


> Did you get those from Newegg or somewhere else? Just wondering if anyone got them last time they were up for order from NE.


Bought mine from NE Business. They were in stock for almost an entire day. I should have bought a couple kits it seems lol.


----------



## Gadfly

IronAge said:


> and where you got your golden Apex from ? not from retail channel AFAIK.
> 
> i know a guy who went thru over 10 retail Apex to find one that been able to do ~7200 with Hynix M-Die.
> 
> and i know another guy that simply bought ONE Z690 Kingpin and it does 7000 1T.
> 
> for many retail buyers MSI Unify-X worked better than ****ty Apex retail samples with production or QA issues.
> 
> BTW: MSI sells the ATX Unify-X for 350$ less, the ITX Unify for 400$ less than the Apex, hope you kinda get the idea.


Right here. 

Went through 3 Z690 Apex, none of them would run over 6600 stable, bought 1 Z690 Dark KP and it runs M-die at 7000C30 1T, and A die at 8000C34 2T.


----------



## pipes

@IronAge where can buy that motherboard for that price?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## saviarss

energie80 said:


> gskill 6400 m die, will share in some hours


 Waiting for it.


----------



## owikh84

Gadfly said:


> Right here.
> 
> Went through 3 Z690 Apex, none of them would run over 6600 stable, bought 1 Z690 Dark KP and it runs M-die at 7000C30 1T, and *A die at 8000C34 2T*.


Did you manage to stabilize A die at 8000C34 2T?


----------



## pipes

are they better module with ic m-die or a-die? le Kingston Fury Renegade DDR5 KF564C32RS-16
they are valid?


----------



## energie80

A die better


----------



## Carillo

energie80 said:


> A die better


Not better in all scenarios. In many scenarios M-die is better for performance. Depends on IMC and motherboard


----------



## cstkl1

pipes said:


> are they better module with ic m-die or a-die? le Kingston Fury Renegade DDR5 KF564C32RS-16
> they are valid?


get renegade fury 6400 kits


----------



## sulalin

pipes said:


> are they better module with ic m-die or a-die? le Kingston Fury Renegade DDR5 KF564C32RS-16
> they are valid?


This is mdie!!!! Kingston's adie model can refer to qvl


----------



## sulalin

Someone asked me if I can only open 1C/1HT overclocking...
Am I going to tell you the Tathagata Palm too... 
Just use 8C/16HT to open it~~~ Block your mouth!!!

ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE 8972MHZ ON AIR 8C/16HT
BIOS:0090 SP:79

#CPU-Z:Intel Core i9 12900KF @ 791.6 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
#HWBOT:CHIANG-CHENG-TAO`s Memory Frequency score: 4485.7 MHz with a DDR5 SDRAM



Spoiler: ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE 8972MHZ ON AIR 8C/16HT


----------



## LazyGamer

Seems like it'd be an interesting project to pool DDR5 kit SKUs into a Google Sheets doc, so that we could easily find which kits are -

Hynix A-die for highest clockspeeds
Hynix M-die for best performance at moderate clockspeeds
Samsung for best price at moderate clockspeeds
Micron for *avoid*


----------



## don1376

energie80 said:


> This doesn’t look so bad 😅
> View attachment 2575335


That's the same my Kingston Renegades do at 6800mhz, but with 12900k @52 and 44 ring. Was curious how mine compared to others at same speed.


----------



## sulalin

LazyGamer said:


> Seems like it'd be an interesting project to pool DDR5 kit SKUs into a Google Sheets doc, so that we could easily find which kits are -
> 
> Hynix A-die for highest clockspeeds
> Hynix M-die for best performance at moderate clockspeeds
> Samsung for best price at moderate clockspeeds
> Micron for


samsung ic air cooling single heel can 8274MHZ+ CL-62-62-62-127 
16*2 7400-7600MHZ But the TRFC performance can't compare with mdie...otherwise the frequency is also very shallow!


----------



## pipes

Price for Kingston is 315 € for Samsung is same 

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

cstkl1 said:


> get renegade fury 6400 kits


You mean this? Offerta del giorno per i membri Prime: Kingston Fury Renegade DDR5 Silver 32GB 6400MT/s DDR5 CL32 DIMM Memoria Gaming per Computer Fissi Kit da 2 - KF564C32RSK2-32 https://amzn.eu/d/gwn4rc3

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## energie80

Yes


----------



## pipes

I have to wait for the release of the z790 platforms with relative CPUs, I was wondering if new ram modules were also coming out or should I buy what is good now?


----------



## energie80

Wait then a die coming


----------



## pipes

But Kingston is not a-die?


----------



## yt93900

Is the new T-Force 7200MHz C34 Hynix A-die?


----------



## asdkj1740

yt93900 said:


> Is the new T-Force 7200MHz C34 Hynix A-die?


it can only be a die, at 1.4v.


----------



## don1376

@pipes 

I have those exact ones but I replaced heatspreaders with copper ones. 6800mhz is best I can do one Unify X.


----------



## LazyGamer

pipes said:


> But Kingston is not a-die?


Kingston is whatever ICs Kingston uses. They're a packager, not a fab like Hynix, Samsung, Micron, (Nanya?).


----------



## bscool

Not much to report on v color 72000 XMP A die. Been messing with them but cant get anything stable. I see they changed XMP to [email protected]

Unless I got a bad stick or kit but even at jdec 5600 sometimes they wont boot code 55 or glitchy. Tried all kinds of bioses, timings and voltages.



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0564/4976/1447/files/R5MANTAXPRISMRGB7200CL36_d4633a31-75a5-4642-8b85-6d8fcad78a92.png?v=1665561288











[Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7200MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory


【Free RGB dummies with 7200MHz!】 Starting from October 19th 2022, with the purchase of a 7200MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** - The color (Black or White) will be picked randomly for every shipment (It'll be a surprise!)...




v-color.net





In the process now of testing each stick individually to see if I have a bad/weak stick. Tried 2021 and 2022 Apex and 3 different cpus 12900k/kf/ks.

Can boot and bench 7400c32 on Kingston 6000c40 m die so I know the MB and CPUs can do it.

The best I have gotten to run y cruncher is 7200 on the A die.

Edit just got a single stick to y cruncher 7800. Looks like I need to run primaries looser than I have been.


----------



## energie80

pipes said:


> But Kingston is not a-die?


No


----------



## energie80

yt93900 said:


> Is the new T-Force 7200MHz C34 Hynix A-die?


Yes


----------



## z390e

yt93900 said:


> Is the new T-Force 7200MHz C34 Hynix A-die?


Believe @Talon2016 confirmed they are in this post









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


So I tried again yesterday to stabilize my hynix oem a-die modules on the '22 Apex with 2004 bios... can't even get 7200 cl36 1.4 stable, it always spews out a bunch of errors after a minute in tm5, sometimes even just freezes after memory training with white LED and qcode 7F it's not temp...




www.overclock.net


----------



## asdkj1740

bscool said:


> Not much to report on v color 72000 XMP A die. Been messing with them but cant get anything stable. I see they changed XMP to [email protected]
> 
> Unless I got a bad stick or kit but even at jdec 5600 sometimes they wont boot code 55 or glitchy. Tried all kinds of bioses, timings and voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0564/4976/1447/files/R5MANTAXPRISMRGB7200CL36_d4633a31-75a5-4642-8b85-6d8fcad78a92.png?v=1665561288
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7200MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory
> 
> 
> 【Free RGB dummies with 7200MHz!】 Starting from October 19th 2022, with the purchase of a 7200MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** - The color (Black or White) will be picked randomly for every shipment (It'll be a surprise!)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the process now of testing each stick individually to see if I have a bad/weak stick. Tried 2021 and 2022 Apex and 3 different cpus 12900k/kf/ks.
> 
> Can boot and bench 7400c32 on Kingston 6000c40 m die so I know the MB and CPUs can do it.
> 
> The best I have gotten to run y cruncher is 7200 on the A die.
> 
> Edit just got a single stick to y cruncher 7800. Looks like I need to run primaries looser than I have been.


sulalin is coming.


----------



## Carillo

Testing Team Group 5600 c46 M-die on water using a 12600K Sp67


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

energie80 said:


> A die better


still waiting ur m die subs photo


----------



## rulik006

Does anyone know how bad or good the ASUS Z690-A is? 6000 max or 6400 achievable?


----------



## Carillo

rulik006 said:


> Does anyone know how bad or good the ASUS Z690-A is? 6000 max or 6400 achievable?


in my case , 6200 was Max.


----------



## pipes

energie80 said:


> No


 But ic brand is SK hynix


----------



## tubs2x4

rulik006 said:


> Does anyone know how bad or good the ASUS Z690-A is? 6000 max or 6400 achievable?


Not sure if your talking the strix-a or prime-a but my prime-a works fine with Hynix 6200 with bz timings in his video. I didn’t stresss test ram. I just game it finds any issues. None yet after couple months now.


----------



## Daemon_xd

Is there any information about which die is G skill 6600 cl34 kit? It's XMP is DDR5-6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V


----------



## cstkl1

Daemon_xd said:


> Is there any information about which die is G skill 6600 cl34 kit? It's XMP is DDR5-6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V


Mdie
Gskill Adie kits not out yet


----------



## sulalin

Daemon_xd，發布：29044135，成員：635006 said:


> 有關於G技能6600 cl34套件是哪個模具的任何信息嗎？它的 XMP 是 DDR5-6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V
> [/引用]G.skill's 6600xmp is the earliest 6600mhz. There must be MDIE!


----------



## 673714

cstkl1 said:


> Mdie
> Gskill Adie kits not out yet


Yep, just really good Hynix M. As long as both sticks are good, they'll do 6800MHz easy


----------



## Carillo

Morning 🙃 Has anyone compared g.skill 6400 c32 , 6600 c34 and kingston 6400 c32 ? 😊


----------



## sulalin

兄弟！去！去！去！有存貨！沒了！
新蛋 
：Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) 台式機內存型號 FF4D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com

T-FORCE DDR5-7200XMP


----------



## z390e

they raised the price on the teamgroups 50$ too


----------



## Carillo

I’ve talked to one big European dealer, and he is saying new g.skill kits are incoming. I would wait until Raptor have launched before pulling the trigger on those “low” binned A-dies


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & DDR5-ADIE BIOS:2004 SP:79


----------



## energie80

my latency is 49.1ns at 6800 cl30


----------



## sulalin

Carillo said:


> Morning 🙃 Has anyone compared g.skill 6400 c32 , 6600 c34 and kingston 6400 c32 ? 😊


These things are actually similar! And one thing can guarantee that it is not a big factory! It is not the more expensive! The better the physique! This is certain!
Like my set of NEO FORZA DDR5-6400XMP MDIE 218A, a brand new set is only a little more than 200 dollars. I think the physique is very good! And it is very cheap!

MDIE with good physique has a high frequency even lower than ADIE green


Spoiler: NEO FORZA DDR5-6400XMP RGB 16G*2 MDIE 218A


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

energie80 said:


> my latency is 49.1ns at 6800 cl30


yet u wont share any further info about it ? Is it stable ?


----------



## energie80

Only use the gaming pc at night I forgot every time. Got some errors on tm5 but perfectly stable for gaming, voltages not so high but don’t even care to delete the little errors


----------



## acoustic

energie80 said:


> Only use the gaming pc at night I forgot every time. Got some errors on tm5 but perfectly stable for gaming, voltages not so high but don’t even care to delete the little errors


What percentage are the errors occurring?


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & Hynix DDR5-ADIE 9600MHZ ON AIR
BIOS: 2004U15 SP: 79

Can you figure out how much you can run under ln2 in this way...Forcing me to work hard....


Spoiler: ROG Z690 APEX & DDR5 ADIE 9600MHZ ON AIR


----------



## earphonelnwshop

Daily profile use for real life OC in Command rate 1T mode
7400 CL32-44-44-48 Command rate 1T with EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N


----------



## sulalin

TEAM T-FORCE DDR5-7200XMP OC 7800MHZ Memtest on the 4dimm motherboard
T-FORCE 7200XMP memtest


----------



## z390e

Amazon has the Teamgroup T-Force 7200 for 349$ right now









Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 Ram 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 7200MHz (PC5-57600) CL34 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Black) for 600 Series Chipset - FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 : Electronics


Buy TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 Ram 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 7200MHz (PC5-57600) CL34 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Black) for 600 Series Chipset - FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01: Earbud Headphones - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## bscool

z390e said:


> Amazon has the Teamgroup T-Force 7200 for 349$ right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 Ram 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 7200MHz (PC5-57600) CL34 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Black) for 600 Series Chipset - FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 Ram 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 7200MHz (PC5-57600) CL34 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Black) for 600 Series Chipset - FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01: Earbud Headphones - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


RIP out of stock already  

Didnt last long.


----------



## sulalin

bscool，發布：29044749，成員：571521 said:


> RIP 已經缺貨
> 
> 沒有持續多久。
> [/引用]
> Newegg今天剛補完200套！如果動作慢，它就會消失...


----------



## opt33

My v color A die, increasing dram voltage to 1.45 or above = instant errors in karhu regardless of other settings and regardless of dram temp, the higher the voltage the worse instability.

-basic xmp (7200c34) at 1.4v vdd/vddq = stable karhu 30 minutes, max temp 55C. Only increased vdd/vddq to 1.45 (no other changes) and karhu errors in under 10 seconds ram temp 37c max. Back to 1.4vdd/vddq ran karhu for 40 minutes no issues. back to 1.45 vdd/vddq erred in 9 seconds. Raised dram vdd/vddq to 1.52/1.52 and bsod loading windows.

Either temp related where no temp sensor exists or just voltage issue. ? something instantly overheating just not where temp sensors are. A/C air with box fan didnt help.

Once I learned to keep vdd/vddq at 1.42 or below, the ram is now out of sledge hammer danger. Now I can start lowering settings, just keeping voltage as is.


----------



## z390e

bscool said:


> RIP out of stock already
> 
> Didnt last long.



there are a lot more people lurking this forum than posting


----------



## bscool

z390e said:


> there are a lot more people lurking this forum than posting


Wonder who got em. I got 1 kit 😁

Figure I can always cancel.


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> Wonder who got em. I got 1 kit 😁
> 
> Figure I can always cancel.


as did I. I want to try another a die, especially when 13900 gets here. And thanks z390e for posting that link.


----------



## Carillo

7200 c32 

Almost got it. Ton of voltage and not the best subs. Guess the limit of theese stick is reached  

Still 12600K sp67 and Team Force 5600 c46 M-die


----------



## Emmanuel

What's the absolute best sticks money can buy in 2x16GB (otherwise 4x8GB) that will rival the latency of CAS 16 DDR4 4100 for 24/7 use?


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> 7200 c32
> 
> Almost got it. Ton of voltage and not the best subs. Guess the limit of theese stick is reached
> 
> Still 12600K sp67 and Team Force 5600 c46 M-die
> 
> View attachment 2575865


Are you trying to kill my cheap hynix dimms 🤣

Looks good


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Are you trying to kill my cheap hynix dimms 🤣
> 
> Looks good


They told me they wanted more voltage. I just do what they tell me to do

Thanks 😘


----------



## Nizzen

Emmanuel said:


> What's the absolute best sticks money can buy in 2x16GB (otherwise 4x8GB) that will rival the latency of CAS 16 DDR4 4100 for 24/7 use?


Prebinned/pretested dimms from one of the top overclockers. Let the $ fly 🤓


----------



## z390e

teamgroup 7200 backorder available at newegg right now






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com


----------



## KedarWolf

z390e said:


> teamgroup 7200 backorder available at newegg right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Does it have an unlocked PMIC?


----------



## QXE

Emmanuel said:


> What's the absolute best sticks money can buy in 2x16GB (otherwise 4x8GB) that will rival the latency of CAS 16 DDR4 4100 for 24/7 use?


Kingston Fury ddr5-6000 cl40. Overclock it and your latency is the same and bandwidth is way higher. Also stop using tCL to compare performance.


----------



## Emmanuel

QXE said:


> Kingston Fury ddr5-6000 cl40. Overclock it and your latency is the same and bandwidth is way higher. Also stop using tCL to compare performance.


How are those better than your GSkill kit for instance?


----------



## 673714

Emmanuel said:


> How are those better than your GSkill kit for instance?


Price. G.Skill 6600 is over $300. Kingston 6000 are probably almost $100 cheaper


----------



## satinghostrider

QXE said:


> Kingston Fury ddr5-6000 cl40. Overclock it and your latency is the same and bandwidth is way higher. Also stop using tCL to compare performance.


I can attest to this compared to G.skill 6400c32 kit. I needed only 1.5V to hit 6800C32 on my Fury Kit compared to my G.skill 6400C32. Both non-RGB and my Fury Kit was 5 degrees cooler during TM5.


----------



## QXE

Emmanuel said:


> How are those better than your GSkill kit for instance?


They arent better but a hell of a lot cheaper.


----------



## don1376

My Kingston Renegades are better in every aspect over the Trident Zs that I replaced. Maybe it's because they were Samsung. Kingston clock higher, run way better timings and run far cooler. To me that's better.


----------



## tfletch90

Peculiar problem if anyone would like to chime in. Getting random CTD's and app crashing while gaming, Memtest86 passes fine on JEDEC standards however Aida64 cache and memory stress tests failing with "hardware failure" ram installed in correct board placement A2+B2. Running ram at 4600mhz instead of standard 4800mhz seems to be the fix. I've freshly installed Windows 11 about 5 times, updated all drivers, DDU for graphics, BIOS, and replaced PSU with the Seasonic. I've tried literally everything and have scoured the internet for weeks reading forums applying any potential fix I could with no luck. Next step is different ram kits to exclude my two matching sets of Dominator 5200 with Micron chips.

12900k
Z690 Maximus Extreme
2x16 Corsair Dominator Platinum 5200
EVGA 3090 FTW3
Seasonic PX1300 Platinum PSU
All EK water-cooled with **** all for high temps.


----------



## QXE

tfletch90 said:


> Peculiar problem if anyone would like to chime in. Getting random CTD's and app crashing while gaming, Memtest86 passes fine on JEDEC standards however Aida64 cache and memory stress tests failing with "hardware failure". Running ram at 4600mhz instead of standard 4800mhz seems to be the fix. I've freshly installed Windows 11 about 5 times, updated all drivers, DDU for graphics, BIOS, and replaced PSU with the Seasonic. I've tried literally everything and have scoured the internet for weeks reading forums applying any potential fix I could with no luck. Next step is different ram kits to exclude my two matching sets of Dominator 5200 with Micron chips.
> 
> 12900k
> Z690 Maximus Extreme
> 2x16 Corsair Dominator Platinum 5200
> EVGA 3090 FTW3
> Seasonic PX1300 Platinum PSU
> All EK water-cooled with **** all for high temps.


try reseating CPU and ram. Do you use any of the ILM frames by any chance?


----------



## tfletch90

QXE said:


> try reseating CPU and ram. Do you use any of the ILM frames by any chance?


I've reseated the CPU and used another matching set of Dominator that was purchased with the other kit at the time of scalping.. No ILM frames just the stock LGA using the Rocket Cool Copper IHS kit. Tried to OC a long while back but encountered way too much instability, been running optimised defaults chasing this one issue for quite some time.


----------



## owikh84

tfletch90 said:


> Peculiar problem if anyone would like to chime in. Getting random CTD's and app crashing while gaming, Memtest86 passes fine on JEDEC standards however Aida64 cache and memory stress tests failing with "hardware failure". Running ram at 4600mhz instead of standard 4800mhz seems to be the fix. I've freshly installed Windows 11 about 5 times, updated all drivers, DDU for graphics, BIOS, and replaced PSU with the Seasonic. I've tried literally everything and have scoured the internet for weeks reading forums applying any potential fix I could with no luck. Next step is different ram kits to exclude my two matching sets of Dominator 5200 with Micron chips.
> 
> 12900k
> Z690 Maximus Extreme
> 2x16 Corsair Dominator Platinum 5200
> EVGA 3090 FTW3
> Seasonic PX1300 Platinum PSU
> All EK water-cooled with **** all for high temps.


I'd make sure the RAM sticks are installed on DIMM slots #2 and #4.


----------



## tfletch90

owikh84 said:


> I'd make sure the RAM sticks are installed on DIMM slots #2 and #4.


I guess I should probably add that to the original post but yes ram is in the correct configuration A2 and B2. I just ordered a new kit of Gskill 6400 that'll be here Monday. Is it possible the ram could have been damaged when a CPU went out.? On my second processor as the first 12900k stopped working after shuffling the computer on the table and the vibrations did something. Board was sent to Asus for RMA after, not knowing the original CPU failed until they said the board checked out fine. All 4 sticks of my Dominator were installed at the time of the first CPU failure.


----------



## Gadfly

Carillo said:


> Morning 🙃 Has anyone compared g.skill 6400 c32 , 6600 c34 and kingston 6400 c32 ? 😊


I have both the g.skill 6400 and 6600 kits. The 6400 kit would run 6800C30 1T at 1.55v, the 6600 kit would run 7200C32 1T at 1.55v on my EVGA Dark KP board.


----------



## Gadfly

LazyGamer said:


> Seems like it'd be an interesting project to pool DDR5 kit SKUs into a Google Sheets doc, so that we could easily find which kits are -
> 
> Hynix A-die for highest clockspeeds
> Hynix M-die for best performance at moderate clockspeeds
> Samsung for best price at moderate clockspeeds
> Micron for *avoid*


Thus far, Hynix A appears to be better than M-die all the way around. plain jane low quality PCB green sticks run 7400/7600 at just 1.435v (with no unlocked PMIC) and will run 7800 with tightened timings at 1.5v. 

apples to apples; mdie you can run 7000C32 at 1.55v, A-die 7000C28 at 1.4v.


----------



## Gadfly

tfletch90 said:


> I guess I should probably add that to the original post but yes ram is in the correct configuration A2 and B2. I just ordered a new kit of Gskill 6400 that'll be here Monday. Is it possible the ram could have been damaged when a CPU went out.? On my second processor as the first 12900k stopped working after shuffling the computer on the table and the vibrations did something. Board was sent to Asus for RMA after, not knowing the original CPU failed until they said the board checked out fine. All 4 sticks of my Dominator were installed at the time of the first CPU failure.


uhhhh....

Moving the pc on the table will not damage the CPU, nor will vibration, even really intense vibration. So unless the back of the MB shorted out against the motherboard tray in the case; that isn't what killed your CPU.

Honestly, something else is going on. My knee jerk reaction is that the motherboard is bad and has killed 1 CPU and 1 memory kit thus far. I wouldn't trust the techs that the company that Asus contracts to test motherboards anymore then I would trust some dude working in the computer department at Bestbuy.


----------



## Gadfly

New daily profile, 7800C34 2T @ 1.485v A-die green sticks

Bios: 1.15
SA: +130 Offset
CPU VDD2: 1.47v set in bios, 1.438v under load
CPU VDDQ TX: 1.15v
Mem VDD: 1.485v (under load)
Mem VDDQ: 1.425v (under load)


----------



## yt93900

Z690 DARK booted 2x16GB TForce Delta RGB 7200MHz C34 XMP easily in one go. See comparison with 6200C36 Doms:

















Please note - 'well used' OS, not a clean install or anything. Just closed some background stuff running.


----------



## NBPDC505

I've got a set of both the V-color 7200 and T-force 7200 A-die. Is one known to be better than the other at this point? Can't test them until after the 20th and Z790/13900K are in hand and would like to send one kit back. Been lurking this page for some time but just made an account.


----------



## Nizzen

NBPDC505 said:


> I've got a set of both the V-color 7200 and T-force 7200 A-die. Is one known to be better than the other at this point? Can't test them until after the 20th and Z790/13900K are in hand and would like to send one kit back. Been lurking this page for some time but just made an account.


T-force have awsome track record. V-color is more unknown.
V-color tried to scam us early ddr5 buyers to sell samsung ic on ddr5 that was "100% hynix" according to the website. 
Luckily we found out and we got the money back. No excuse from V-color... I will never buy from them again.


----------



## yt93900

Turns out the TForces aren't stable either, same story as the Apex with the doms 6200 vs the Dark - always 1-2 errors in TM5 after 1.5-2h.
I've already seen some Z790 boards listed but no 2xDIMM yet, except ITX models.


----------



## Thunderclap




----------



## Nizzen

yt93900 said:


> Turns out the TForces aren't stable either, same story as the Apex with the doms 6200 vs the Dark - always 1-2 errors in TM5 after 1.5-2h.
> I've already seen some Z790 boards listed but no 2xDIMM yet, except ITX models.


After 1.5-2h it may be temperature


----------



## yt93900

That's what I'm thinking too, one module peaked at 52*C, the other at 50*C. From B-Die DDR4 times I've experienced the same thing.


----------



## Gadfly

yt93900 said:


> That's what I'm thinking too, one module peaked at 52*C, the other at 50*C. From B-Die DDR4 times I've experienced the same thing.


just a reminder that the “spd hub” temp is not die temp. There is a little thermistor up by the PMIC that is the source of that temp. Your memory could be running a lot hotter, or cooler, than is reported


----------



## Falkentyne

yt93900 said:


> That's what I'm thinking too, one module peaked at 52*C, the other at 50*C. From B-Die DDR4 times I've experienced the same thing.


Instead of running TM5 for 2 hours and turning into a skeleton, try Y-cruncher "N32" test. This heats up the memory as much as y-cruncher and should show temp problems without waiting for years.
I found SFT (AVX2) test to be good for testing core stability, and N32 for testing memory stability (especially yeeted tREFI !). 

Also consider running LinX 0.9.12. This also heats up the RAM considerably, but I'm not sure if "N32" or LinX is better. If LinX aborts with a 'red' error it means something is unstable. Y-cruncher will error out on one of the logical cores, but this can happen from either CPU or memory instability. If you pass SFT for multiple loops, but fail N32, it's memory.

Start with 35000 sample size and work your way up in sample size for more stress.


----------



## Ketku-

Thunderclap said:


> View attachment 2575979
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575980


How well does the Z690 work with the Apex? Thinking about possibly replacing my own G.Skill CL32 6400 2x16GB with some new ones.


----------



## yt93900

Falkentyne said:


> Instead of running TM5 for 2 hours and turning into a skeleton, try Y-cruncher "N32" test. This heats up the memory as much as y-cruncher and should show temp problems without waiting for years.
> I found SFT (AVX2) test to be good for testing core stability, and N32 for testing memory stability (especially yeeted tREFI !).
> 
> Also consider running LinX 0.9.12. This also heats up the RAM considerably, but I'm not sure if "N32" or LinX is better. If LinX aborts with a 'red' error it means something is unstable. Y-cruncher will error out on one of the logical cores, but this can happen from either CPU or memory instability. If you pass SFT for multiple loops, but fail N32, it's memory.
> 
> Start with 35000 sample size and work your way up in sample size for more stress.


Y-cruncher hits the CPU hard on N32, seen 285W+ shame it doesn't do RAM only, I also noticed RAM barely warming up, yet it still crashed with coefficient too large but how stable is it with the CPU at 91*C? Could've been the CPU itself at that point.


----------



## Falkentyne

yt93900 said:


> Y-cruncher hits the CPU hard on N32, seen 285W+ shame it doesn't do RAM only, I also noticed RAM barely warming up, yet it still crashed with coefficient too large but how stable is it with the CPU at 91*C? Could've been the CPU itself at that point.


No I tested this with RPL.
On my Micron RAM (which is now stable at 5800 C36, rather than 5600 on Z690+ADL), tREFI=131070 crashes a random thread in N32.
At tREFI 65535, it passes. So in my case, N32 exposed tREFI instability.

But yeah y-cruncher is serious business and doesn't require all day to run. And doesn't hit the chip as hard as prime95 FMA3 small FFT
Just do yourself a favor and do NOT run y-cruncher SFT on your RPL or ADL chips at higher than 1.25v load unless you're on a chiller of some sort. You will be sorry (ask @Ichirou ).

(Prime95 small FFT FMA3 is completely nuts on RPL. Don't run it. Use AVX1 instead if you want to abuse your chips)


----------



## Ichirou

@yt93900 y-cruncher does not stability test the RAM; only the CPU and IMC. You must use TM5 with the anta777 ABSOLUT config for that.

And as @Falkentyne says, tread lightly with heavy stress tests like y-cruncher or Prime95. ADL/RPL this time around degrades at lower voltages than previous generations.
Keep the chip under 80-85C max.

y-cruncher's Component Stress Test (with all tests enabled) is absolutely ridiculous in terms of how hard it hits the chip. If you don't need to be mission critical, the main test is sufficient. Maybe run it a handful of times in a row just to be sure. I've noticed that running the main test around 4-5x requires around the same Vcore as a single CST run with all tests enabled. But it doesn't hammer the chip nearly as hard.


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> T-force have awsome track record. V-color is more unknown.
> V-color tried to scam us early ddr5 buyers to sell samsung ic on ddr5 that was "100% hynix" according to the website.
> Luckily we found out and we got the money back. No excuse from V-color... I will never buy from them again.


XPG did something similar, they launch using Hynix and sent Hynix to reviewers and shipped Samsung sticks to consumers.

But we didn’t get money back on those.


----------



## z390e

the T-force's passed all my tests so far on the Dark z690, but I have nice cool air blowing on my DIMMs and the board VRMs. The numbers at just XMP are really nice tbh. Now that I have the A-die's can work on tightening timings. I didn't even run this with e-cores disabled and ring jacked up.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Gadfly said:


> New daily profile, 7800C34 2T @ 1.485v A-die green sticks
> 
> Bios: 1.15
> SA: +130 Offset
> CPU VDD2: 1.47v set in bios, 1.438v under load
> CPU VDDQ TX: 1.15v
> Mem VDD: 1.485v (under load)
> Mem VDDQ: 1.425v (under load)
> 
> View attachment 2575941


Thanks. This also works for me.


----------



## IronAge

Gadfly said:


> XPG did something similar, they launch using Hynix and sent Hynix


I got early XPG and they have Hynix, rather good ones, i also got an early G.Skill Kit with Samsung that does 7000, first or second batch.

Payed about 500$ for each of these two kits.

Low VDD/Q that the Dark needs is amazing, i really regret not having bought one and instead relied on Asus Apex.

Mistake that will not be repeated.


----------



## opt33

my vcolor A die 7200 given up on. XMP settings run for a couple hours but eventually error out if try overnight runs. Raising vdd/vddq volts above 1.44 errors out immediately (within 3 to 9 seconds) even at 6600-6800, any voltage 1.5 or higher will bsod loading windows regardless of mhz. Could not get 6800 stable even with loose settings/ie same settings as 7200 xmp with same or lower volts. 

2 of my 9 mdie/samsung kits I sent back for doing similar, ie kits that wouldnt run xmp without errors even when raising voltage slightly. My best M die kit will do 6800 rock stable 1.52v with tight settings or 6600 tight with 1.44v.

Im thinking this vcolor ram is bad, but wont know for sure until 13900 arrives and team group 7200 coming at end of month. If those have issues, then new z790 mobo.


----------



## LazyGamer

opt33 said:


> Im thinking this vcolor ram is bad, but wont know for sure until 13900 arrives and team group 7200 coming at end of month. If those have issues, then new z790 mobo.


Just based on what I've seen in this thread, aren't these results normal for the Unify-X with Alder Lake?


----------



## warbucks

SoldierRBT said:


> Thanks. This also works for me.
> View attachment 2576071


Are you running a-die green PCB? If so, where did you grab them from?


----------



## opt33

LazyGamer said:


> Just based on what I've seen in this thread, aren't these results normal for the Unify-X with Alder Lake?


I must have missed some posts if others posted same issues, Ill have to look back through. If it was just 7200 that failed would suspect mobo or imc, but cant even get 6800 stable, also raising voltage causing instant instability cant explain. Once I get 13900 and team group if that has issues....then z790, by then will be able to see which z790 mobos work well.


----------



## acoustic

LazyGamer said:


> Just based on what I've seen in this thread, aren't these results normal for the Unify-X with Alder Lake?


Haven't seen much reports on behavior with A-Die on the Unify-X.


----------



## rulik006

VDD2 at 1.47v? will that cause IMC degradation over time?


----------



## Carillo

rulik006 said:


> VDD2 at 1.47v? will that cause IMC degradation over time?


Not the first 186 days.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Carillo said:


> Not the first 186 days.


VDD2 has nothing to do with the IMC.


----------



## yt93900

No luck with the 7200 C34's yet on my DARK. 3 minutes in already an error at 36 and 38*C on the DIMMS :-(
Did you guys tweak any voltage settings?

These are the 'stock' voltages XMP sets:


----------



## z390e

yt93900 said:


> No luck with the 7200 C34's yet on my DARK. 3 minutes in already an error at 36 and 38*C on the DIMMS :-(


I wouldn't even worry of the RAM until you can pass this error you mentioned earlier, which indicates an unstable CPU OC, typically, or has for me. Its typically lack of vcore, or has been, for me.



yt93900 said:


> Y-cruncher ... crashed with coefficient too large


----------



## yt93900

The CPU is stock, never OC'ed.


----------



## z390e

imo you have heat or other problems then if you are failing benchmarks at stock and/or XMP with RAM that meets QVL. Check your AVX-2 offset.



y-cruncher - FAQ



*The hardware is not "AVX stable" or "AVX512 stable":

If your "stable" overclock is hitting the "Coefficient is too large" error on the standard benchmark sizes, then your overclock is not as stable as you think it is.

This error is most commonly seen on overclocks with an unstable AVX or AVX512 configuration. It first became common on Haswell, but is now seen on nearly all Intel processors - especially those with AVX512.*

Fwiw, I can 100% attest to this. I have a stable OC that I one day was f'ing around with AVX offsets on and forgot to set it back. I ran y-cruncher and it failed with coefficient too large. Put my AVX-2 offset back and haven't seen that error since.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Falkentyne said:


> No I tested this with RPL.
> On my Micron RAM (which is now stable at 5800 C36, rather than 5600 on Z690+ADL), tREFI=131070 crashes a random thread in N32.
> At tREFI 65535, it passes. So in my case, N32 exposed tREFI instability.
> 
> But yeah y-cruncher is serious business and doesn't require all day to run. And doesn't hit the chip as hard as prime95 FMA3 small FFT
> Just do yourself a favor and do NOT run y-cruncher SFT on your RPL or ADL chips at higher than 1.25v load unless you're on a chiller of some sort. You will be sorry (ask @Ichirou ).
> 
> (Prime95 small FFT FMA3 is completely nuts on RPL. Don't run it. Use AVX1 instead if you want to abuse your chips)


So you are confirming RPL is better memory overclocker compared to > ADL ? in z690 motherboard ?


----------



## yt93900

z390e said:


> imo you have heat or other problems then if you are failing benchmarks at stock and/or XMP with RAM that meets QVL. Check your AVX-2 offset.
> 
> 
> 
> y-cruncher - FAQ
> 
> 
> 
> *The hardware is not "AVX stable" or "AVX512 stable":
> 
> If your "stable" overclock is hitting the "Coefficient is too large" error on the standard benchmark sizes, then your overclock is not as stable as you think it is.
> 
> This error is most commonly seen on overclocks with an unstable AVX or AVX512 configuration. It first became common on Haswell, but is now seen on nearly all Intel processors - especially those with AVX512.*
> 
> Fwiw, I can 100% attest to this. I have a stable OC that I one day was f'ing around with AVX offsets on and forgot to set it back. I ran y-cruncher and it failed with coefficient too large. Put my AVX-2 offset back and haven't seen that error since.


I don't have heat problems as such - the load is just strictly unrealistic in combination with EVGA not respecting PL1/2 limits and when it's trying to push almost 300W when number crunching  There is no AVX offset / power limits to set on the Z690 DARK when running in stock/auto mode either.


----------



## z390e

yt93900 said:


> There is no AVX offset / power limits to set on the Z690 DARK when running in stock/auto mode either.


I have the dark, and there are AVX-2 offsets normally, are they unavailable with Auto setting?


----------



## yt93900

Yes, on manual but not when the CPU is 'stock' as in - when you load setup defaults the DARK has no AVX offset and no power limits (these cannot be set anyway AFAIK) so it's not ideal for hammering the CPU with heavy AVX.
Anyway, it passes when RAM is at 4800 JEDEC speed so it's the RAM, however I will stick to TM5, don't see the point of degrading the CPU at 290W for testing RAM stability.

Currently waiting for the Z790 Unify-X or the Tachyon, should be a bit more user friendly in terms of BIOS.


----------



## Falkentyne

Streamroller said:


> So you are confirming RPL is better memory overclocker compared to > ADL ? in z690 motherboard ?


I haven't tested a RPL CPU in a Z690 board, sorry.
Only on Z790. While I "could" do this, I'm not going to risk bending pins for science when I'm the one who has to pay the price if I break something, sorry.


----------



## Gadfly

yt93900 said:


> No luck with the 7200 C34's yet on my DARK. 3 minutes in already an error at 36 and 38*C on the DIMMS :-(
> Did you guys tweak any voltage settings?
> 
> These are the 'stock' voltages XMP sets:


Yeah, you have to tweak other voltages. You can’t just enable xmp and go.

mainly you have to find the right combo on VDD2 and VDDDQ TX


----------



## yt93900

Tried VDD/VDDQ both at 1.40V but same story - error after a minute. It seems even worse after I updated from 1.14 to 1.15 BIOS.


----------



## Falkentyne

yt93900 said:


> No luck with the 7200 C34's yet on my DARK. 3 minutes in already an error at 36 and 38*C on the DIMMS :-(
> Did you guys tweak any voltage settings?
> 
> These are the 'stock' voltages XMP sets:


Set tRFC (or tRFC2, not sure) to 500 and try to run the test again.


----------



## tubs2x4

How you mean risk bending the pins? By simply swapping cpus you mean?


----------



## ViTosS

All these people receiving hardware from Asus/Intel for free and testing early, every generation. I'm jealous


----------



## z390e

I think its envious, not jealous


----------



## ViTosS

z390e said:


> I think its envious, not jealous


You are right, sorry my bad english haha


----------



## yt93900

It's so weird, it will throw 1 error at test 4 of Anta777 extreme, then pass another 30 minutes without more errors, then throw another 1 or 2, then another 20 minutes nothing.


----------



## Falkentyne

tubs2x4 said:


> How you mean risk bending the pins? By simply swapping cpus you mean?


Yes I have a metal bar in my spine and a disability and my hands are not very stable. Sorry.


----------



## Gadfly

yt93900 said:


> Tried VDD/VDDQ both at 1.40V but same story - error after a minute. It seems even worse after I updated from 1.14 to 1.15 BIOS.


You are not listening, you have to more than just set mem Vdd and vddq. You can’t just enable XMP and expect it to work.

What do you have CPU VDD2 and TX set at? What about SA voltage? What PMIC turbo mode?


----------



## asdkj1740

Thunderclap said:


> View attachment 2575979
> 
> 
> View attachment 2575980


gskill:

for 2*16
6800/7200/7600 are coming very soon

for 2*32
6400 is coming very soon

the price for 7600 2*16 is higher than the price of 6000u3636e a year ago.
~500usd.
7200 2*16 are ~60usd cheaper, 6800 is another ~60usd cheaper.


----------



## Gen.

Can't get 6933/7000 CR1 to work. Who uses which settings? All voltages and PMIC Turbo are interesting!


----------



## z390e

The Teamgroup 7200's will definitely work @ XMP on the Dark, I made a few voltage changes and I can pass y-cruncher no problem

I ran 5+ runs just to be sure.


----------



## Gen.

Here are the results I got for 6800. Windows - a week, I'll optimize as I figure it out with 6933/7000 kr1.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> They told me they wanted more voltage. I just do what they tell me to do
> 
> Thanks 😘


1.65 daily is fine. been running for months 24/7.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## yt93900

Gadfly said:


> You are not listening, you have to more than just set mem Vdd and vddq. *You can’t just enable XMP and expect it to work.*
> 
> What do you have CPU VDD2 and TX set at? What about SA voltage? What PMIC turbo mode?


Isn't this like the whole point of XMP / DOCP - load and it 'should' theoretically work? 
Anyway, it looks like the board has a problem of setting SA too low on auto. 0.95V gave tons of errors, now increased to 1.15V and it's looking promising so far.


----------



## z390e

yt93900 said:


> Isn't this like the whole point of XMP / DOCP - load and it 'should' theoretically work? Really not in the mood with screwing around with 0.05V here or there, will probably go back to the 6200's at that point or wait for a BIOS update.


Does the RAM in question show your motherboard on the QVL?

If the answer is no you had unrealistic expectations if you expected it to be plug/set xmp/play, imo.


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE 7200XMP oc 8266MHZ GB3:15813
ROG Z690 APEX bios:2004 sp:79


----------



## yt93900

Must be the rev of Apex as well? Would be nice to see Aida64 as well. 120GB/s read probably.


----------



## Carillo

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE 7200XMP oc 8266MHZ GB3:15813
> ROG Z690 APEX bios:2004 sp:79
> View attachment 2576286


Nice results! My best GB3 with M-die :


----------



## yt93900

z390e said:


> Does the RAM in question show your motherboard on the QVL?
> 
> If the answer is no you had unrealistic expectations if you expected it to be plug/set xmp/play, imo.


DARK has no QVL, anyway bumping the SA to 1.15V solved it. Just passed Anta777 Extreme so now it's at:
VCCSA 1.15V
VDDQ TX 1.45V (auto, will try lower)
VDD 1.41V (auto)
VDDQ 1.35V (auto)


----------



## ChaosAD

I m doing some system upgrades along with new custom water-cooling and want to buy an new fan for ram cooling. Do you think it's worth it to get the Noctua NF A12x25 or its completely overkill for 30+ euros and get something else?


----------



## cstkl1

ChaosAD said:


> I m doing some system upgrades along with new custom water-cooling and want to buy an new fan for ram cooling. Do you think it's worth it to get the Noctua NF A12x25 or its completely overkill for 30+ euros and get something else?


theres nothing "overkill" about cooling bro. 😂


----------



## acoustic

Haha I think a few people have gone overkill on their loops, but generally good fans are worth the price. More airflow, less noise. Can't go wrong.

Waiting for these IceManCooler DDR5 heatsinks to come in and the water-cooling block, then I get to tear the loop down for the 10th time this year.. 🙄


----------



## owikh84

ChaosAD said:


> I m doing some system upgrades along with new custom water-cooling and want to buy an new fan for ram cooling. Do you think it's worth it to get the Noctua NF A12x25 or its completely overkill for 30+ euros and get something else?


If one is considered overkill then what about four A12x25? 🤣😂


----------



## sulalin

Difference between T-FORCE 7200XMP & Hynix 5600 Green PCB
ROG Z690 APEX BIOS:2004U15 SP:79
This air cooling temperature cannot enter the system


Spoiler: T-FORCE 7200XMP VS Hynix 5600 GRENN PCB


----------



## rent0n

ChaosAD said:


> I m doing some system upgrades along with new custom water-cooling and want to buy an new fan for ram cooling. Do you think it's worth it to get the Noctua NF A12x25 or its completely overkill for 30+ euros and get something else?


Why don’t you consider EK’s (Furious) Vardar EVO 120 for half the price?


----------



## ChaosAD

rent0n said:


> Why don’t you consider EK’s (Furious) Vardar EVO 120 for half the price?


I was just checking the EK Vardar EVO 120ER, it won't go above 800-1000rpm anyway, so maybe I get same performance as the Noctua.


----------



## LazyGamer

rent0n said:


> Why don’t you consider EK’s (Furious) Vardar EVO 120 for half the price?


...and get half the fan?


----------



## z390e

yt93900 said:


> DARK has no QVL


Not sure why people keep mentioning this in response to me saying "Is the MOBO on the RAM QVL?" I looked in my post for where I might said it did, but couldn't find it. Moving on.

You want to look on the RAM QVL, always.

This is something I oddly keep having to clarify that I have already mentioned. 









[OFFICIAL] EVGA Dark K|NGP|N z690 Owners Thread


I noticed that all of the z690 Dark submissions show CPU-Z showing Core VID rather than Vcore. Is this a board limitation? I can get vcore to show up in HWInfo but have to say yes to the sensor. @CENS I saw it in that 18sec 744ms y-cruncher you just posted on HwBot too which is why I ask. If...




www.overclock.net


----------



## yt93900

It's because you asked the other way round, not sure if it's something new but it was always the MB that had a QVL for RAM.
Teamgroup's QVL is very, very basic to say the least. Not even mentioning many MB brands


----------



## z390e

gotcha, will try to work on wording 

fwiw the G.Skill 6400 and 6600 will show as being on the Dark QVL, not sure about the Teamgroups


----------



## opt33

Spent yesterday and today with vcolor 7200 on unifyx with 12900k trying to figure out issue. imc on 12900k may be waving white flag on dual channel 7000+ speeds. 
Waiting on 13900 to see for sure, and Teamgroup a die.

Single channel test:
Channel 1 (single channel) runs 7200 and 7400 stable using stick 1. stick 2 same but requires auto rtls (not faster dynamic) to run stable and more finicky with higher volts. 
Channel 2 same as channel 1.

Dual channel test:
6800 dual channel stable (only with auto/loose rtls to accommodate mediocre ram stick 2). 
7200 dual channel throws errors regardless of settings/volts

voltages:
sa 1.3 used most (1.2 to 1.5 didnt help)
cpu vdd2 1.47 to 1.51 had least errors, much higher or lower erred faster
cpu vddx 1.51 (auto) used most, lower or higher didnt help
vdd/vddq 1.4 to 1.42 worked best, tried 1.5+.

bottom line single channel 7200/7400 easy to get stable with wide variety of settings and volts, dual channel 7200 failed regardless of settings/volts.


----------



## yt93900

Interesting, I passed TM5 Anta777 extreme at 1.15V SA on the Tforce 7200 C34 2x16GB. 0.95V that the board tried to set as 'auto' was throwing errors like crazy.
Maybe the Vcolors have a borked XMP profile?
Also makes me wonder if the SP value can have impact on the IMC, my chip is SP88 with strong P-cores (SP97).


----------



## acoustic

SP is based off VID of the cores. It's not related to IMC quality at all - been confirmed a while ago. 👍🏻


----------



## yt93900

Got it, wondered if it had something to do with the general sillicon quality for both cores and IMC

I just looked at the Aorus Z790 Master and it has Team Group RAM up to 7800MHz on the QVL. I think I will replace the Z690 Dark with it. Just for the sake of convenience.


----------



## acoustic

You're having issues with the DARK? That's contrary to what I've seen anyone else say. I wouldn't touch a Gigabutt product with a 10ft pole.


----------



## yt93900

No issues as such but it's not what I'm after, it's a tweakers MB just like the old DFI's were and the rotated socket is a major pain, I had to remove the whole backplate and even still the CPU backplate is bending the back of my fractal Define 7 XL case because it doesn't match the cooler cutout. Honestly, high freq DDR5 support was the only reason I bought it and because I was so pissed off at ASUS.

ASUS is done for me after the Apex fiasco, the 3090 Strix wasn't great either - hot and loud.
I have recently bought a 4090 Aorus so thought the Z790 master would be a nice match, either the Master or maybe an MSI Carbon but the pricing is really getting insane.


----------



## acoustic

yt93900 said:


> No issues as such but it's not what I'm after, it's a tweakers MB just like the old DFI's were and the rotated socket is a major pain, I had to remove the whole backplate and even still the CPU backplate is bending the back of my fractal Define 7 XL case because it doesn't match the cooler cutout. Honestly, high freq DDR5 support was the only reason I bought it and because I was so pissed off at ASUS.
> 
> ASUS is done for me after the Apex fiasco, the 3090 Strix wasn't great either - hot and loud.
> I have recently bought a 4090 Aorus so thought the Z790 master would be a nice match, either the Master or maybe an MSI Carbon but the pricing is really getting insane.


Make sure you do your research on Gigabyte before purchasing. Not a company with good history lately, nor good products - don't know about their 4000 series GPUs yet, but 3000 were an embarrassment with the stupid PCIE connector design.

Totally get it about being done with ASUS; me too, even though it's for different reasons. The price gouging and having a second ASUS board die on me in two generations (Z490 and Z690) is it for me. I love my 3080TI STRIX, but it's not a particularly special overclocker.. probably would love any other 3x 8pin card too lol


----------



## yt93900

ASUS has been a big hit or miss. The 3090 TUF was very good, 3080Ti LC Strix also, 3090 Strix aircooled was meh and Z690 ROG's I had were...mildly put, not the best but the B660i Strix was absolutely fine in terms of DDR5 support.
Z790 Unify-X or Z790 Tachyon with 2 DIMM would've been perfect but haven't heard anything about those so far. The Z790 are really crazy expensive, 829 euros for the MEG ACE and 700 for the Aorus Master.
I think I get what you mean about the Gigabyte RTX3000 series with the 2x8pin 'extension cable' with breaking pins. That said, I've had the 3090 VISION and it was hella good after repadding and repasting, just missing the higher power limit of the other models.


----------



## IronAge

Can get Z690 Dark for ~640€ on Amazon, no reason to buy Z790, no DLVR for RPL-S anyway.


----------



## pipes

IronAge said:


> Can get Z690 Dark for ~640€ on Amazon, no reason to buy Z790, no DLVR for RPL-S anyway.


in which Amazon do you find it at that price? you can find the z690 dark kingpin in the American one for 499 dollars ... translated, in import and transport to Italy, at a price of about 690 euros


----------



## martinh123

Anyone took on the most difficult challenge, 4 DIMMS of 32GB DDR5, 128GB?


----------



## QXE

With the recent bios update for the Unify-X, im finally getting some luck.


----------



## sulalin

8000mhz on T-FORCE DDR5-7200xmp 4dimm board


----------



## sulalin

yt93900 said:


> 知道了，想知道這是否與內核和 IMC 的一般矽質量有關
> 
> 我剛剛查看了 Aorus Z790 Master，它在 QVL 上具有高達 7800MHz 的 Team Group RAM。我想我會用它替換 Z690 Dark。只是為了方便。
> [/引用]Z790 Hero casually 8000mhz...


----------



## IronAge

acoustic said:


> but 3000 were an embarrassment with the stupid PCIE connector design.


Gigabyte fixed it, i used multiple of these cards for builds and got zero issues, also the Aorus do not have the extenders.

TG 7200 A-Die incoming today. 😎


----------



## Carillo

IronAge said:


> Gigabyte fixed it, i used multiple of these cards for builds and got zero issues, also the Aorus do not have the extenders.
> 
> TG 7200 A-Die incoming today. 😎


Same here  Generic A-die from Hynix incoming in a couple of hours


----------



## whitearmor

Carillo said:


> Same here  Generic A-die from Hynix incoming in a couple of hours


Are you guys got it from NewEgg, through some forwarding service? Monitoring Geizhals every day, and can’t see it restocking )=


----------



## Carillo

whitearmor said:


> Are you guys got it from NewEgg, through some forwarding service? Monitoring Geizhals every day, and can’t see it restocking )=


No , this is binned sticks from splave


----------



## IronAge

@whitearmor

Got mine from here, best price too, but they got none in stock ATM.






DDR5RAM DDR5 7200 TeamGroup T Force günstig bei csv-direct.de


DDR5RAM DDR5 7200 TeamGroup T Force DELTA RG und viele weitere günstig bei csv-direct.de. DDR5RAM DDR5 7200 TeamGrou... online kaufen ✔ Jetzt günstig bei csv-direct.de




www.csv-direct.de





Some got them from here:



https://www.overclockers.co.uk/teamgroup-delta-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-57600c34-7200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-ff3d532g7200hc34adc01-my-0b5-tg.html



But no stock ATM, both offers VAT included, from UA you should have to pay like £416 without VAT.


----------



## Arni90

QXE said:


> With the recent bios update for the Unify-X, im finally getting some luck.
> View attachment 2576407


Where can I download this BIOS?


----------



## acoustic

QXE said:


> With the recent bios update for the Unify-X, im finally getting some luck.
> View attachment 2576407


Where is A81U4 available? Haven't seen it anywhere. If you could please share it to the Unify-X thread, so more users can grab it, that would be great. I seen A81, but haven't had a chance to flash and see if it's A81U4, like yours.

Worst case, share it here or PM it to me, and I can post it in the Unify-X thread.

Thanks dude!


----------



## martinh123

Y



sulalin said:


> 8000mhz on T-FORCE DDR5-7200xmp 4dimm board
> View attachment 2576408


Would this work with 4x32GB rather than 4x16GB? Amazing result!


----------



## acoustic

Did some testing today to figure out what my limitation is for 6800 on my Kingston 6400CL32 M-Die kit, with a 12700K and Unify-X, using newest BETA BIOS I can find, A81.

Went to one stick, checking each DIMM slot to see if it was a motherboard issue. I was able to run Karhu at 7200 with a single stick in either DIMMA1 and DIMMB1. 7000 ran 800% coverage with this one specific stick at 

CPU SA - 1.150v
CPU VDDQ TX - 1.45v
CPU VDD2 - 1.40v
DRAM VDD - 1.48v
DRAM VDDQ - 1.41v
DRAM VPP - 1.43v

This was just initial testing, so used some random voltages.. and it worked perfectly. I was actually shocked I was able to get 800% coverage before I shut the test down at those voltages, regardless of DIMM slot! This tells me that my board is good for 7000, at a minimum. 7200 ran fine up to ~300% before an error, so I believe I could get that stable as well. I was still running the exact same voltages at 7200, so likely just needed a small bump in DRAM VDD.

I proceeded to swap sticks, and put it in DIMMA1. Guess what? No POST, fails training at 7200. Other stick posted no problem with those voltages. Swapped to DIMMB1, still no POST!

I think what I'm getting at is obvious here.. I have one weak stick, with another quite strong bin of M-Die. 7000 at 1.48v VDD is awesome!

I'm now testing 7000 on the weak stick. I'm at 1.50v DRAM VDD, with 1.43v DRAM VDDQ in DIMMB1, which is where the stick will stay when I add the other stick back in. I'm currently at 400% Karhu with these settings. I'll let it go to 1000%, then reboot and force it to re-train, because that's been my issue with going above 6600 with both sticks installed; I'll pass one time up to 10K Karhu, and then fail at 120% on a reboot, even without re-training.

If I add the second stick and suddenly can't function at 7000 (I haven't been able to get 6800 stable either, which is what drove me to do this testing), then it's either the stick being finicky, or the CPU IMC. I'm glad to see the board doesn't have any issues though. I should try to see how far it'll POST just for ****s+giggles on the good stick, just to check.. we'll see.

update: Weak stick was stable up to 1000% Karhu at 7000 with voltages above. Added the other stick in, and POSTed no problem.

Blue screens in Windows though for all types of crazy ****. MEMORY_MANAGEMENT, Page Fault in non-paged, and IRQ not less or equal. Seems to be any of those three.

Doesn't seem like any voltage in particular helps, though I've noticed I can't post above 1.40v CPU VDD2, which is curious.

Side note: Windows11 is pretty resilient. I booted about 14-15 times into Windows with immediate blue screens with corruption issues and it recovered all on its own. Ran an SFC SCANNOW after giving up and going back to 6600, and no integrity violations. Nice. I was worried I was going to blow the OS up if I kept at it..


----------



## owikh84

Lucky Mode ENABLED, otherwise instant error

12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.82 (Best for 81N but bad for 84N)
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7600 32-44-44-32-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.52V | TX VDDQ 1.30V | SA 1.25v | MC 1.40v







*


----------



## acoustic

owikh84 said:


> Lucky Mode ENABLED, otherwise instant error
> 
> 12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.82 (Best for 81N but bad for 84N)
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7600 32-44-44-32-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.52V | TX VDDQ 1.30V | SA 1.25v | MC 1.40v
> View attachment 2576471
> *


1.30v CPU VDDQ TX is nuts. That's a really good IMC..


----------



## Carillo

First A-die test. 8000 c32 



My 12600k IMC (or something else) is struggling, so I'll probably aim for 7400-7600 daily. To be continued


----------



## z390e

whitearmor said:


> Are you guys got it from NewEgg, through some forwarding service? Monitoring Geizhals every day, and can’t see it restocking )=


I watched that Teamforce every day for weeks until I was able to buy it.

Props to @sugi0lover who told us months ago to keep eyes out for it. I did not buy first round off Amazon since it was $450 a kit but got it from newegg in their first "backorder" option.

I posted on this forum a few days ago when it was up on newegg for backorder also.


----------



## Gadfly

yt93900 said:


> Isn't this like the whole point of XMP / DOCP - load and it 'should' theoretically work?
> Anyway, it looks like the board has a problem of setting SA too low on auto. 0.95V gave tons of errors, now increased to 1.15V and it's looking promising so far.


Actually, No. that isn’t the point. XMP just sets some timing and voltages so you don’t have to manually configure timings. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to configure other things to make it work. You are still responsible for configuring the CPU and motherboard. Even it is on the QVL, you still have to set everything else yourself. Keep in mind DARK KP board works completely differently then other Z690 boards. If you try to set it up like a Unify-X or a ROG board you are not getting very far.

If you left SA on “auto” it will be 0.950v. That is what Intel sets SA at; why inthe world would that be a board problem??? That is exactly what it is supposed to be. 

So what gives? You obviously have no idea what you are doing, you ask for help, ignore those that try to help you, make outlandish claims and blame the hardware, ***** how it is everything’s fault but yours, and come off super stand offish. Do you want help and want to learn or not?


----------



## SoldierRBT

warbucks said:


> Are you running a-die green PCB? If so, where did you grab them from?


These are Oloy 6800C38 1.45 Kit. 10L pcb


----------



## jeiselramos

owikh84 said:


> Lucky Mode ENABLED, otherwise instant error
> 
> 12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.82 (Best for 81N but bad for 84N)
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7600 32-44-44-32-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.52V | TX VDDQ 1.30V | SA 1.25v | MC 1.40v
> View attachment 2576471
> *


Did you try c34 with lucky mode disable, i think you'll have the same performance.
When I tried lucky mode is like a false value, i did the same with 6800c30/c28 Mdie, same performance same voltage same RTL, the only thing "different" is the cl


----------



## z390e

warbucks said:


> Are you running a-die green PCB? If so, where did you grab them from?


@Splave has some for sale over on HwBot still I think






FS: Binned DDR5 A Die Hynix


I have 7 kits, binned from 100 sticks. The ones that made the cut are all about the same in terms of OC (a couple dimms out 100 were awful). There are two types of PMIC, crackable and non. These sticks are all crackable, and will work without limits as long as your motherboard bios supports it. (...



community.hwbot.org


----------



## energie80

One stick is easy with unify x, they had a record or something


----------



## yt93900

Gadfly said:


> Actually, No. that isn’t the point. XMP just sets some timing and voltages so you don’t have to manually configure timings. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to configure other things to make it work. You are still responsible for configuring the CPU and motherboard. Even it is on the QVL, you still have to set everything else yourself. Keep in mind DARK KP board works completely differently then other Z690 boards. If you try to set it up like a Unify-X or a ROG board you are not getting very far.
> 
> If you left SA on “auto” it will be 0.950v. That is what Intel sets SA at; why inthe world would that be a board problem??? That is exactly what it is supposed to be.
> 
> So what gives? You obviously have no idea what you are doing, you ask for help, ignore those that try to help you, make outlandish claims and blame the hardware, *** how it is everything’s fault but yours, and come off super stand offish. Do you want help and want to learn or not?


That's actually not true regarding the SA as the board also increases it when enabling XMP but the Dark doesn't handle this, either it's programmed not to or doesn't do it well, as it would randomly select the SA voltage between CMOS resets and after enabling XMP but not to what it actually needs(too low).
Older ASUS boards used to bruteforce this on Z390/490 I've owned - the higher the XMP frequency, the more it would overshoot, up to 1.45V IO/SA.

Not really getting your attitude either, everything was solved by fixing SA to 1.10-1.15V by hand as I said in one of my later posts. For non (extreme) OC the Dark is no different than any other Z690 board and it's not some godsend doing things different way, it's still just an Intel socket and DDR5, both doing their thing.

Sometimes I think maybe I should've asked on Reddit but there, they told me to buy the cheapest board als they all are sufficient (jk) 
Also don't feel obliged to respond to everything


----------



## warbucks

SoldierRBT said:


> These are Oloy 6800C38 1.45 Kit. 10L pcb


Where did you buy these from?


----------



## warbucks

z390e said:


> @Splave has some for sale over on HwBot still I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FS: Binned DDR5 A Die Hynix
> 
> 
> I have 7 kits, binned from 100 sticks. The ones that made the cut are all about the same in terms of OC (a couple dimms out 100 were awful). There are two types of PMIC, crackable and non. These sticks are all crackable, and will work without limits as long as your motherboard bios supports it. (...
> 
> 
> 
> community.hwbot.org


Thanks. I picked up two sticks through the superbuy link.


----------



## owikh84

Edit: It was a different kit of 84N.


----------



## z390e

Teamgroup 7200's on the Dark 690


----------



## asdkj1740

i saw aorus master z790 passing 100% memtest at 8000c36.
i just wonder, how much can be gained more on two dimm mobo.


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> Not much to report on v color 72000 XMP A die. Been messing with them but cant get anything stable. I see they changed XMP to [email protected]
> 
> Unless I got a bad stick or kit but even at jdec 5600 sometimes they wont boot code 55 or glitchy. Tried all kinds of bioses, timings and voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0564/4976/1447/files/R5MANTAXPRISMRGB7200CL36_d4633a31-75a5-4642-8b85-6d8fcad78a92.png?v=1665561288
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7200MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory
> 
> 
> 【Free RGB dummies with 7200MHz!】 Starting from October 19th 2022, with the purchase of a 7200MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** - The color (Black or White) will be picked randomly for every shipment (It'll be a surprise!)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the process now of testing each stick individually to see if I have a bad/weak stick. Tried 2021 and 2022 Apex and 3 different cpus 12900k/kf/ks.
> 
> Can boot and bench 7400c32 on Kingston 6000c40 m die so I know the MB and CPUs can do it.
> 
> The best I have gotten to run y cruncher is 7200 on the A die.
> 
> Edit just got a single stick to y cruncher 7800. Looks like I need to run primaries looser than I have been.


Did they do this?

"We also sent 1pc free sample of M.2 dummy to you."

And was it one or two sticks?


----------



## bscool

KedarWolf said:


> Did they do this?
> 
> "We also sent 1pc free sample of M.2 dummy to you."
> 
> And was it one or two sticks?


Yeah it was just 1 M2 RGB filler/dummy. I didn't really pay much attention, looks like junk to me 

It looks like that, but no ssd included.









v-color RGB M.2 SSD & FILLER KIT


【PRODUCT DESCRIPTION】 【WARRANTY】 3-year Warranty.




v-color.net


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> Yeah it was just 1 M2 RGB filler/dummy. I didn't really pay much attention, looks like junk to me
> 
> It looks like that, but no ssd included.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color RGB M.2 SSD & FILLER KIT
> 
> 
> 【PRODUCT DESCRIPTION】 【WARRANTY】 3-year Warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net





bscool said:


> Yeah it was just 1 M2 RGB filler/dummy. I didn't really pay much attention, looks like junk to me
> 
> It looks like that, but no ssd included.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color RGB M.2 SSD & FILLER KIT
> 
> 
> 【PRODUCT DESCRIPTION】 【WARRANTY】 3-year Warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net


Oh, I thought it was dummy DIMM sticks.


----------



## KedarWolf

What voltages can you adjust if your PMIC is unlocked?

Edit: Can someone screenshot that menu in the BIOS?


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & T-FORCE 7200XMP
DDR5-8400/8533MHZ
BIOS:2004U15 SP:79
NEW ROG CPU-Z 2.0.3








DOWNLOADING CPU-Z_2.03-ROG-EN.ZIP | CPUID


System information software




www.cpuid.com


----------



## Ketku-

How many use KARHU Ramtest is it still good and works nice?
I am used allways Tm5 Extreme or Absolut config.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Same here  Generic A-die from Hynix incoming in a couple of hours


stop buying those. trust me.


----------



## cstkl1

Ketku- said:


> How many use KARHU Ramtest is it still good and works nice?
> I am used allways Tm5 Extreme or Absolut config.


its not just that but consistency on reboots and when cpu oced.


----------



## ChaosAD

Ketku- said:


> How many use KARHU Ramtest is it still good and works nice?
> I am used allways Tm5 Extreme or Absolut config.


I have used both, I think TM5 Extreme works better than karhu.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## cstkl1

just leavin dis here. 😂
see who spot it first


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> just leavin dis here. 😂
> see who spot it first


I see what you did there. Mine says M in the end


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> I see what you did there. Mine says M in the end


these kits are now in stores folks. check them out.


----------



## cstkl1

they are cheap.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> they are cheap.


Thanks for sharing that! How are they performing?

US Links for this kit:

G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6600 Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com 

Microcenter also stocks this kit, but at a higher price. I believe you can get them to price-match Newegg, though!

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6600 PC5-52800 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5 - Micro Center


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Thanks for sharing that! How are they performing?


testing later throughout da night. will comment after a day or 2 .


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> testing later throughout da night. will comment after a day or 2 .


Looking forward to it.

I'm curious if A-Die would help at all with what I believe are CPU IMC related issues. It seems A-Die setups are typically less sensitive to voltage, which in turn might make 6800+ stable for me. I've already found that my M-DIe kit can do 7000 (individually, both DIMM slots), and one stick can easily do 7200.. but can't get stable above 6600 with both sticks installed.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Thanks for sharing that! How are they performing?


buy seriously go look for it. we already got another guy finding it in shops. its at the reduced price pf the


acoustic said:


> Looking forward to it.
> 
> I'm curious if A-Die would help at all with what I believe are CPU IMC related issues. It seems A-Die setups are typically less sensitive to voltage, which in turn might make 6800+ stable for me. I've already found that my M-DIe kit can do 7000 (individually, both DIMM slots), and one stick can easily do 7200.. but can't get stable above 6600 with both sticks installed.


u need to go to the store and check. older kits are Mdie. 

its drive strength from rams chipset. its not all about imc. 

example ddr4 bdie vs hynix. hynix kits fly.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> buy seriously go look for it. we already got another guy finding it in shops. its at the reduced price pf the
> 
> u need to go to the store and check. older kits are Mdie.
> 
> its drive strength from rams chipset. its not all about imc.
> 
> example ddr4 bdie vs hynix. hynix kits fly.


Good point, and yeah, would have to drive about ~45min to Microcenter to check the kits. It's a good deal if they price-match Newegg's price, that's for sure. Could always return it if it doesn't help me break out of this 6600 hell I'm stuck in... hmm

With that being said, I've just continued tightening 6600 down. 1.42v DRAM VDD / 1.39v DRAM VDDQ


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2576640


20a is nice.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Good point, and yeah, would have to drive about ~45min to Microcenter to check the kits. It's a good deal if they price-match Newegg's price, that's for sure. Could always return it if it doesn't help me break out of this 6600 hell I'm stuck in... hmm
> 
> With that being said, I've just continued tightening 6600 down. 1.42v DRAM VDD / 1.39v DRAM VDDQ
> 
> View attachment 2576651


i would call.


----------



## cstkl1

cstkl1 said:


> i would call.


heck 45m @owikh84 be there already by any means deemed necessary if this was the case in MY


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> heck 45m @owikh84 be there already by any means deemed necessary if this was the case in MY


I have too much other stuff eating money right now, otherwise I'd have a 4090 FE and I'd be gearing up for Raptor Lake + Z790 DARK .. LOL

I'm probably going to take the trip to MC, just gonna call to see if they'll price-match Newegg real quick. 

edit: Damn, they won't price-match if the item is out-of-stock. It's on backorder at Newegg


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> I have too much other stuff eating money right now, otherwise I'd have a 4090 FE and I'd be gearing up for Raptor Lake + Z790 DARK .. LOL
> 
> I'm probably going to take the trip to MC, just gonna call to see if they'll price-match Newegg real quick.
> 
> edit: Damn, they won't price-match if the item is out-of-stock. It's on backorder at Newegg


amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. 
just not sure which batch.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now.
> just not sure which batch.


Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com 

Part# doesn't match - it ends in GA2, not GX2, like your kit does or the links from Newegg/Microcenter.

Close, though! lol


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com
> 
> Part# doesn't match - it ends in GA2, not GX2, like your kit does or the links from Newegg/Microcenter.
> 
> Close, though! lol


hmm new 6400 also gx2


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> hmm new 6400 also gx2


Yeah, Microcenter has 3 of those in stock at my store.. you think there's a chance they threw A-Die on those as well?


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Yeah, Microcenter has 3 of those in stock at my store.. you think there's a chance they threw A-Die on those as well?


doubt it. @snakeeyes111 pointed out to me could be expo compaitable designation.


----------



## cstkl1

need to check the sticks.


----------



## sulalin

MemTweaklt:MemTweakIt_20220317.rar
AsrTCSetup 4.0.14:AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> MemTweaklt:MemTweakIt_20220317.rar
> AsrTCSetup 4.0.14:AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar


both work for z790, confirmed


----------



## z390e

cstkl1 said:


> just leavin dis here. 😂
> see who spot it first



yours is 16GX2 mine says 16GA2, I thought that is just RGB vs non-RGB?


----------



## acoustic

z390e said:


> yours is 16GX2 mine says 16GA2


Are yours A-Die?


----------



## z390e

acoustic said:


> Are yours A-Die?


no 

both of those were listed on the GSkill site for a while, I remember when I was buying the 6600 I checked both #'s and could only find the GA2's and not the GX2's

Second question on GSkill site:









FAQ - DRAM Memory - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Frequently asked questions about G.SKILL DRAM Memory.




www.gskill.com





What's the difference between 'GX' and 'GA' in DDR5 model numbers?
There is no difference in specifications between the "GX" and "GA" model numbers.


----------



## acoustic

z390e said:


> no
> 
> both of those were listed on the GSkill site for a while, I remember when I was buying the 6600 I checked both #'s and could only find the GA2's and not the GX2's
> 
> Second question on GSkill site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAQ - DRAM Memory - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Frequently asked questions about G.SKILL DRAM Memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference between 'GX' and 'GA' in DDR5 model numbers?
> There is no difference in specifications between the "GX" and "GA" model numbers.


If there's no difference, then why are they using GX and GA? I don't get it. There has to be some kind of difference, otherwise why differentiate the two?

Seems convoluted if they're actually the same.


----------



## z390e

I would have sworn the GX/GA was white/black or rgb/non-rgb but appears I was wrong


----------



## cstkl1

z390e said:


> I would have sworn the GX/GA was white/black or rgb/non-rgb but appears I was wrong


TZ5K - black
TZ5RK - rgb black
TZ5S - silver
TZ5RK - rgb silver

also keep forgetting we have this guy in da forum @GSKILL SUPPORT


----------



## acoustic

Cranked up tREFI for benching. Normally, I run 32768 for 24/7. Rest of the timings are 20K Karhu + TM5 ABSOLUT/Extreme.stable

Latency down to 47ns. Pretty good stuff for 6600 32-39-39-30


----------



## Wilco183

The "A" and "X" designation sticks are one in the same. Queried Amazon distributor Racer Speed with concerns when purchasing 36-36-36-76 5600 "A" in December. Basically a gskill front store distributor for Amazon. The "A" set showed up on gskill site the next day.

Received 6600 "A" from them last week since it showed up on Hero QVL. XMPed rightup. Passed MemTest with 5.2 OC...nothing else tried yet. With all this forced work over-time I can buy whatever, but sadly no time to play with it.


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900KS 5.2/4.8GHz 7800MHz 32-45-45-34 1.63v VDD 1.45v VDDQ 1.20v CPU VDDQ 1.40v VDD2 1.05v SA


----------



## Wilco183

acoustic said:


> If there's no difference, then why are they using GX and GA? I don't get it. There has to be some kind of difference, otherwise why differentiate the two?
> 
> Seems convoluted if they're actually the same.


I found this answer to be suspect until the addition of "A2" was made to gskill website the next day. 

YOUR CONVERSATION WITH
*RACERSPEED INC.*
Dec 28, 2021 4:22 PM
I have ordered this RAM. Question: It is advertised as " F5-5600U3636C16GA2-TZ5RK ". GSKILL makes a " F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5RK" Notice the X instead of A. I'm assuming this is a typo and am purchasing under that assumption. Please advise that THIS item is indeed " F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5RK "
Dec 28, 2021 5:32 PM
Hello It is same item however GA2 model is exclusive to us so you know you received inventory from us not unauthorized sources. With shared listings / ASINs, it is possible for your to receive inventory from other sellers even if purchased from us. This is because Amazon picks and ships from the nearest warehouse to you. Thank you, Racerspeed


----------



## acoustic

Wilco183 said:


> I found this answer to be suspect until the addition of "A2" was made to gskill website the next day.
> 
> YOUR CONVERSATION WITH
> *RACERSPEED INC.*
> Dec 28, 2021 4:22 PM
> I have ordered this RAM. Question: It is advertised as " F5-5600U3636C16GA2-TZ5RK ". GSKILL makes a " F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5RK" Notice the X instead of A. I'm assuming this is a typo and am purchasing under that assumption. Please advise that THIS item is indeed " F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5RK "
> Dec 28, 2021 5:32 PM
> Hello It is same item however GA2 model is exclusive to us so you know you received inventory from us not unauthorized sources. With shared listings / ASINs, it is possible for your to receive inventory from other sellers even if purchased from us. This is because Amazon picks and ships from the nearest warehouse to you. Thank you, Racerspeed


If that's the case, it's unfortunate because you can't price-match through Microcenter if the seller is not Amazon. It has to be Amazon/Amazon for both.

Ah well..


----------



## QXE

acoustic said:


> Where is A81U4 available? Haven't seen it anywhere. If you could please share it to the Unify-X thread, so more users can grab it, that would be great. I seen A81, but haven't had a chance to flash and see if it's A81U4, like yours.
> 
> Worst case, share it here or PM it to me, and I can post it in the Unify-X thread.
> 
> Thanks dude!


----------



## acoustic

QXE said:


> View attachment 2576730


NDA on a beta BIOS for a motherboard released a year ago

ok


----------



## QXE

acoustic said:


> NDA on a beta BIOS for a motherboard released a year ago
> 
> ok


I’m just ****ing with you 





E7D28IMS.A81U4.zip







t.co


----------



## cstkl1

did a rough test 7600c34 @1.4v profile asus preset no problem


----------



## Falkentyne

sulalin said:


> MemTweaklt:MemTweakIt_20220317.rar
> AsrTCSetup 4.0.14:AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar
> View attachment 2576670


Cool this one actually works on Z790, thanks for this.


----------



## cstkl1

Wilco183 said:


> The "A" and "X" designation sticks are one in the same. Queried Amazon distributor Racer Speed with concerns when purchasing 36-36-36-76 5600 "A" in December. Basically a gskill front store distributor for Amazon. The "A" set showed up on gskill site the next day.
> 
> Received 6600 "A" from them last week since it showed up on Hero QVL. XMPed rightup. Passed MemTest with 5.2 OC...nothing else tried yet. With all this forced work over-time I can buy whatever, but sadly no time to play with it.
> 
> View attachment 2576713


those are adie 820A


----------



## acoustic

QXE said:


> I’m just ****ing with you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E7D28IMS.A81U4.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> t.co


😂😂

Thanks for sharing. Where did you come across this release anyway? Still can't figure out reliable way to get most recent BIOS releases.


----------



## This is a hat.

I am very curious about the price of this product.


----------



## Gen.

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2576640


-S82*A = Hynix 16Gbit A-Die
-S82*M = Hynix 16Gbit M-Die


----------



## energie80

This is a hat. said:


> I am very curious about the price of this product.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2576763


1500


----------



## This is a hat.

energie80 said:


> 1500


USD? That's a crazy price.
I'll go on my way~


----------



## sulalin

V-COLOR & ROG DDR5 
#V_Color_Manta
#ROG_CERTIFIED


Spoiler: #V_Color_Manta #ROG_CERTIFIED


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> V-COLOR & ROG DDR5
> #V_Color_Manta
> #ROG_CERTIFIED
> 
> 
> Spoiler: #V_Color_Manta #ROG_CERTIFIED
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2576790
> 
> View attachment 2576789
> 
> View attachment 2576786
> 
> View attachment 2576788
> 
> View attachment 2576787
> 
> View attachment 2576785


are you going to perform some drop test?


----------



## sulalin

asdkj1740，帖子：29049092，成員：483688 said:


> 你要進行一些跌落測試嗎？
> [/引用]我沒這個東西...


----------



## Gadfly

yt93900 said:


> That's actually not true regarding the SA as the board also increases it when enabling XMP but the Dark doesn't handle this, either it's programmed not to or doesn't do it well, as it would randomly select the SA voltage between CMOS resets and after enabling XMP but not to what it actually needs(too low).
> Older ASUS boards used to bruteforce this on Z390/490 I've owned - the higher the XMP frequency, the more it would overshoot, up to 1.45V IO/SA.
> 
> Not really getting your attitude either, everything was solved by fixing SA to 1.10-1.15V by hand as I said in one of my later posts. For non (extreme) OC the Dark is no different than any other Z690 board and it's not some godsend doing things different way, it's still just an Intel socket and DDR5, both doing their thing.
> 
> Sometimes I think maybe I should've asked on Reddit but there, they told me to buy the cheapest board als they all are sufficient (jk)
> Also don't feel obliged to respond to everything


SA voltage is not part of the XMP profile and not part of Intel's XMP 2.0/3.0 specifications. Meaning there is no "SA" voltage mapped in the SPD data. Some boards will modify SA voltage automatically, like you pointed out some Asus ROG boards will change the SA voltage based on the memclk when left on auto, but it is not a function of XMP and not in the XMP profile on the DIMMS.


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> What voltages can you adjust if your PMIC is unlocked?
> 
> Edit: Can someone screenshot that menu in the BIOS?


What board?


----------



## Gadfly

bscool said:


> Not much to report on v color 72000 XMP A die. Been messing with them but cant get anything stable. I see they changed XMP to [email protected]
> 
> Unless I got a bad stick or kit but even at jdec 5600 sometimes they wont boot code 55 or glitchy. Tried all kinds of bioses, timings and voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0564/4976/1447/files/R5MANTAXPRISMRGB7200CL36_d4633a31-75a5-4642-8b85-6d8fcad78a92.png?v=1665561288
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7200MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory
> 
> 
> 【Free RGB dummies with 7200MHz!】 Starting from October 19th 2022, with the purchase of a 7200MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** - The color (Black or White) will be picked randomly for every shipment (It'll be a surprise!)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the process now of testing each stick individually to see if I have a bad/weak stick. Tried 2021 and 2022 Apex and 3 different cpus 12900k/kf/ks.
> 
> Can boot and bench 7400c32 on Kingston 6000c40 m die so I know the MB and CPUs can do it.
> 
> The best I have gotten to run y cruncher is 7200 on the A die.
> 
> Edit just got a single stick to y cruncher 7800. Looks like I need to run primaries looser than I have been.


I know my A-die sticks are really sensitive to even small changes to VDD2 (what Asus calls it MC) VDDQ and VDDQ TX; I have to set my sticks to a slower speed and find combinations of Mem VDD/VDDQ/CPU VDD2/VDDQ TX that pass stress testing, then turn up the speeds. 

It is a pain in the ass.


----------



## KedarWolf

Gadfly said:


> What board?


Whatever board you have.


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> Whatever board you have.


I have an EVGA Dark KP.

You are wanting to see where you set memory related voltages correct? There is no special section for unlocked PMIC's. In EVGA's bios, there is one switch "Enable extreme voltage mode" (think that is the correct verbiage) that will allow higher voltages for everything (not just the memory) that you have to enable, after that you just set Mem VDD / Mem VDDQ in the memory tab normally. My ROG Apex did not have a special switch, if the PMIC was unlocked it was unlocked and you could set higher voltages on the memory page. 

I am pretty sure the max for locked PMIC is 1.435v; if you can set over 1.435v, then the PMIC is unlocked.


----------



## cstkl1

Gadfly said:


> I know my A-die sticks are really sensitive to even small changes to VDD2 (what Asus calls it MC) VDDQ and VDDQ TX; I have to set my sticks to a slower speed and find combinations of Mem VDD/VDDQ/CPU VDD2/VDDQ TX that pass stress testing, then turn up the speeds.
> 
> It is a pain in the ass.












first round testing. these are pretty easy on voltages. no tricky ones. but hmm looks likd got to bin to find c32 [email protected] or lower


----------



## sulalin

Gadfly said:


> I have an EVGA Dark KP.
> 
> You are wanting to see where you set memory related voltages correct? There is no special section for unlocked PMIC's. In EVGA's bios, there is one switch "Enable extreme voltage mode" (think that is the correct verbiage) that will allow higher voltages for everything (not just the memory) that you have to enable, after that you just set Mem VDD / Mem VDDQ in the memory tab normally. My ROG Apex did not have a special switch, if the PMIC was unlocked it was unlocked and you could set higher voltages on the memory page.
> 
> I am pretty sure the max for locked PMIC is 1.435v; if you can set over 1.435v, then the PMIC is unlocked.


APEX also has this option


----------



## KedarWolf

Gadfly said:


> I have an EVGA Dark KP.
> 
> You are wanting to see where you set memory related voltages correct? There is no special section for unlocked PMIC's. In EVGA's bios, there is one switch "Enable extreme voltage mode" (think that is the correct verbiage) that will allow higher voltages for everything (not just the memory) that you have to enable, after that you just set Mem VDD / Mem VDDQ in the memory tab normally. My ROG Apex did not have a special switch, if the PMIC was unlocked it was unlocked and you could set higher voltages on the memory page.
> 
> I am pretty sure the max for locked PMIC is 1.435v; if you can set over 1.435v, then the PMIC is unlocked.


Okay, thank you. I think the voltages controlled by the PMIC are VPP, VDDQ and VDD according to my research.



https://www.ti.com/product/TPS53832


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> Okay, thank you. I think the voltages controlled by the PMIC are VPP, VDDQ and VDD according to my research.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ti.com/product/TPS53832


Yes.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2576823
> 
> 
> first round testing. these are pretty easy on voltages. no tricky ones. but hmm looks likd got to bin to find c32 [email protected] or lower


Have you looked for a limit in Cr1?


----------



## KedarWolf

Gadfly said:


> Yes.


Are there options to adjust all those voltages in your BIOS and what are they named?


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Have you looked for a limit in Cr1?


no


----------



## Gadfly

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2576823
> 
> 
> first round testing. these are pretty easy on voltages. no tricky ones. but hmm looks likd got to bin to find c32 [email protected] or lower


Mine get touchy at 7600 and above.

Getting 7800 stable at 1.485v (underload) took a TON of tweaking. Basically, I build profiles of matching voltages that work. So my process so far is your memclk to a speed that you have been able to get stable previously, so you know that you have enough mem VDD and mem VDDQ; 7000, 7200 etc. Then move VDD up and build a profile for the higher VDD. 

1.) Set Mem-VDD to desired voltage
2.) Set Mem-VDDQ to 100mv below Mem-VDD
3.) Set VDD2 just below mem-VDDQ
4.) Set VDDQ TX to known good value from lower speed; or start at 0.950v
5.) Set SA to stock (0.950v)

Start by alternate increasing VDDQ TX and SA voltage until it boots into the OS, then + 5mv. Start stability testing.

Then, I alternate increasing TX and SA until the number of errors stops reducing and starts increasing then back it off to whatever values produced least number of errors.
Next, I increase VDD2 until the number of errors stop reducing. If you have more than 1-3 errors in a 30min TM5 test, you might need to move the VDD and start over. If you have just a few you can normally stabilize it by moving VDD2 up/down a little bit. If that doesn't work, try adjusting TX up and down a little bit, then move SA up and down a little bit, if none of that eliminates the few remaining errors, move Mem-VDDQ up slightly and repeat.


Once I have a stable set of voltages, I save them as a profile. So I have one set that is 1.435v, one that is 1.455v, one that is 1.485v, one that is 1.53v, one that is 1.56v, etc. I load the profile, and set the memory to the desired speed, say 7800 or 8000, and then try slight tweaks to get it stable, if I can't, then I build a profile with higher voltages.


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> Are there options to adjust all those voltages in your BIOS and what are they named?


Yes.

In the memory tab, at the top, and they are all together.

VDD: Auto or manual voltage
VDDQ: Auto or manual voltage
VPP: Auto or manual voltage

I will take a pic when I reboot after this round of stress testing.


----------



## cstkl1

Gadfly said:


> Mine get touchy at 7600 and above.
> 
> Getting 7800 stable at 1.485v (underload) took a TON of tweaking. On this board, the relationship between VDD2 and Mem VDDQ appears to be the most sensitive. Once I get it dialed in where I am only getting 1 or 2 errors in TM5, I then play with VDDQ TX to get it stable.
> 
> So my process so far is set to 7800 2T.
> 
> 1.) Set Mem-VDD to desired voltage
> 2.) Set Mem-VDDQ to 100mv below Mem-VDD
> 3.) Set VDD2 just below mem-VDDQ
> 4.) Set VDDQ TX to known good value from lower speed; or start at 0.950v
> 5.) Set SA to stock (0.950v)
> 
> Start by alternate increasing VDDQ TX and SA voltage until it boots into the OS, then + 5mv. Start stability testing.
> 
> Then, I alternate increasing TX and SA until the number of errors stops reducing and starts increasing then back it off to whatever values produced least number of errors.
> Next, I increase VDD2 until the number of errors stop reducing. If you have more than 1-3 errors in a 30min TM5 test, you might need to bump the VDD and start over. If you have just a few you can normally stabilize it by moving VDD2 up/down a little bit. If that doesn't work, try adjusting TX up and down a little bit, then move SA up and down a little bit, if none of that eliminates the few remaining errors, move Mem-VDDQ up slightly and repeat.
> 
> Takes forever, but I am hell bent on getting 8000 stable.


thats basically not ram oc just voltage

theres alot about adie u can learn the different from mrc training behaviour etc but u need a more open bios. guess you need the fae to spend more hours on their profile. evga dark i assume?

7800 pretty easy on this stick.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> thats basically not ram oc just voltage
> 
> theres alot about adie u can learn the different from mrc training behaviour etc but u need a more open bios. guess you need the fae to spend more hours on their profile. evga dark i assume?
> 
> 7800 pretty easy on this stick.


Have you came up with any crazy training profiles for DDR5 that seem to help with higher frequency stability?


----------



## Gadfly

cstkl1 said:


> thats basically not ram oc just voltage
> 
> theres alot about adie u can learn the different from mrc training behaviour etc but u need a more open bios. guess you need the fae to spend more hours on their profile. evga dark i assume?
> 
> 7800 pretty easy on this stick.


You nailed it. Yes, EVGA Dark

I had no issues getting 7800 stable, 8000 is another story.


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> Are there options to adjust all those voltages in your BIOS and what are they named?


----------



## tubs2x4

You guys that can run 7600-7800… can you run sottr benchmark or another good game benchmark to see how much difference there is from like 6400 to 7600/7800?


----------



## KedarWolf

What is the safe maximum voltage for overclocking a-die DDR5?

What are people running here is a better question.

Edit: My motherboard locks it to 1.43v but I can get an unlocked BIOS if I can provide voltage recommendations.


----------



## Gadfly

KedarWolf said:


> What is the safe maximum voltage for overclocking a-die DDR5?
> 
> What are people running here is a better question.


I am running 1.485v (load) 7800C34 2T. A-die runs cool compared to M-die; most seem to be in the 1.5-1.56v range; I have seen a good number of people running 1.6v+. I'd ask for unlock up to 1.7v; that should cover anything you need to include sub-ambient cooled memory. 



https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/1665726270038-png.2575941/


----------



## CreasiicK

*🤔







*


----------



## acoustic

Those are some good timings for the voltage


----------



## rulik006

CreasiicK said:


> *🤔*
> View attachment 2576876


WUT, looking like a super bin of samsung B-die
but most likely a mistake


----------



## CreasiicK

rulik006 said:


> WUT, looking like a super bin of samsung B-die
> but most probably are mistake
> View attachment 2576877


Right, on the z790 master says 34-44-44 and M-die


----------



## CreasiicK




----------



## pipes

Vddq degrade CPU because is a voltage that passes inside the cpu, these I have read


----------



## cstkl1

pipes said:


> Vddq degrade CPU because is a voltage that passes inside the cpu, these I have read


been running 1.65b for months 24/7. on mdie. dont see any problem. it all depends on your cooling

reading sometimes a bad thing. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Carillo

If your cpu degrades , you don’t upgrade often enough 😂


----------



## bhav

I read that going over 1.5v would kill my ram and CPU, and by read I mean hundreds of people on the internet told me so.

Just like the human eye can't see anymore than 24 FPS.

Also 'don't recommend unsafe settings to other users' .... 1.6v is safe ... BANNED.


----------



## KedarWolf

bhav said:


> I read that going over 1.5v would kill my ram and CPU, and by read I mean hundreds of people on the internet told me so.
> 
> Just like the human eye can't see anymore than 24 FPS.


Hey, I saw screenshots of a PC game at 30 FPS and a PC game at 60 FPS and the quality of the pictures were exactly the same!! 🤔


----------



## QXE

acoustic said:


> 😂😂
> 
> Thanks for sharing. Where did you come across this release anyway? Still can't figure out reliable way to get most recent BIOS releases.


Discord


----------



## QXE

So it seems the unify-X can do 7800 stable. If you own a Unify-X/ITX and A die, try the odt combo of 40/120/240/48/48. Works great for me.


----------



## bhav

Reading through this thread and checking people's results is actually interesting though because I thought if I upgraded to early gen DDR5 and do what I do it will die.

I'll be waiting until at least 15th gen to move onto DDR5 though.


----------



## acoustic

QXE said:


> View attachment 2576917
> 
> So it seems the unify-X can do 7800 stable. If you own a Unify-X/ITX and A die, try the odt combo of 40/120/240/48/48. Works great for me.


I need to mess with ODTs..

Could you PM me a link to the Discord?


----------



## QXE

acoustic said:


> I need to mess with ODTs..
> 
> Could you PM me a link to the Discord?


Invites are turned off sorry


----------



## bigfootnz

QXE said:


> View attachment 2576917
> 
> So it seems the unify-X can do 7800 stable. If you own a Unify-X/ITX and A die, try the odt combo of 40/120/240/48/48. Works great for me.


Can you please post what voltages you are using? Thanks


----------



## QXE

bigfootnz said:


> Can you please post what voltages you are using? Thanks


Im currently using 1.67 VDD, 1.59 VDDQ, 1.2 SA, 1.3 CPU VDDQ, and 1.31 VDD2


----------



## ViTosS

QXE said:


> Im currently using 1.67 VDD, 1.59 VDDQ, 1.2 SA, 1.3 CPU VDDQ, and 1.31 VDD2


Just curious, I don't have the platform yet but I'm planning to upgrade to 13900k, coming from an 10900k, which of these voltages would be equivalent to VDRAM, VCCIO and VCCSA?


----------



## QXE

ViTosS said:


> Just curious, I don't have the platform yet but I'm planning to upgrade to 13900k, coming from an 10900k, which of these voltages would be equivalent to VDRAM, VCCIO and VCCSA?


VCCIO is no longer used on Alder lake/Raptor lake. VCCSA is still there. VDRAM or VDDR = VDD2. DRAM VDD & VDDQ are on the sticks themselves.


----------



## owikh84

QXE said:


> View attachment 2576917
> 
> So it seems the unify-X can do 7800 stable. If you own a Unify-X/ITX and A die, try the odt combo of 40/120/240/48/48. Works great for me.


E-core disabled right? Is this stable with E-core enabled?


----------



## sulalin

owikh84 said:


> E-core disabled right? Is this stable with E-core enabled?


If the E core is enabled, he may not be able to start or HT, otherwise who is burning 8C/8HT....


----------



## sulalin

CreasiicK，帖子：29049469，成員：674226 said:


> *🤔
> View attachment 2576875
> *
> View attachment 2576876
> 
> [/引用]
> 這些是 MDIE


----------



## sulalin

Gadfly said:


> View attachment 2576838


DARK memory doesn't have 100:133 / 100:100 option?


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE DDR5-7800MHZ xmp memtest on 4dimm board


----------



## Nizzen

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE DDR5-7800MHZ xmp memtest on 4dimm board
> View attachment 2576945


7800 xmp 😱🤓😎


----------



## z390e

z790 board with 7800xmp on 4 DIMM nice


----------



## pipes

Carillo said:


> If your cpu degrades , you don’t upgrade often enough


Every 2 years...what does updating have to do with it ... obviously the degradation occurs more at high temperatures and over time ... heck I know, I knew that that voltage was in input to the CPU not like the voltage of the ram module.
Te devo essere il fenomeno che aggiorna ogni 6 mesi


----------



## sulalin

13900K+Z790 APEX DDR5-10000MHZ 開風冷ROG Z790 APEX DDR5 OC 10000MHZ ON AIRCOOLING
ROG Z790 APEX DDR5-11130MHZ lupin_no_musume 內存頻率得分：5564.8 MHz with a DDR5 SDRAM
來源：ROG官方

Don't doubt! ROG Z790 APEX
IS THIS GENERATION OF Z790 BOARD KING.


----------



## acoustic

FYI, Microcenter @ St. David's PA has the GSkill 6600 A DIE. They will price match Newegg $299.99 price.

Picked up a 13900K and the A-Die @cstkl1 ready for some 7800+ fun?!!


----------



## 2500k_2




----------



## acoustic

How's everyone finding CPU VDDQ and CPU VDD2 voltages with 13900K compared to Alder Lake? Seem to be lower requirements, and too high will cause issues too


----------



## jeiselramos

acoustic said:


> How's everyone finding CPU VDDQ and CPU VDD2 voltages with 13900K compared to Alder Lake? Seem to be lower requirements, and too high will cause issues too


Nothing new, i couldn't stabilize 6400c28 1T with 1.3+ vddq but i needed 1.28 and 1.25 or lower didn't boot and 1.4 vdd2 , for 2T completely different voltages 1.3 on both to stabilize 6800c30


----------



## acoustic

jeiselramos said:


> Nothing new, i couldn't stabilize 6400c28 1T with 1.3+ vddq but i needed 1.28 and 1.25 or lower didn't boot and 1.4 vdd2 , for 2T completely different voltages 1.3 on both to stabilize 6800c30


I got 7400 into Windows fine, but 7600 doesn't seem to want to POST, regardless of voltage combos. Gonna go back to my M-Die kit and see how it runs; above 7400 might be my specific mobo limitation. I'm on a Unify-X


----------



## jeiselramos

acoustic said:


> I got 7400 into Windows fine, but 7600 doesn't seem to want to POST, regardless of voltage combos. Gonna go back to my M-Die kit and see how it runs; above 7400 might be my specific mobo limitation.


Tomorrow i think I'll have my 13900K


----------



## acoustic

Seems like if the VDD2 voltage is wrong, you'll hang at 4C post code, skip to 55, and then it'll reboot.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

bhav said:


> Reading through this thread and checking people's results is actually interesting though because I thought if I upgraded to early gen DDR5 and do what I do it will die.
> 
> I'll be waiting until at least 15th gen to move onto DDR5 though.


See you in 3 and a half years


----------



## acoustic

Recap time..

Z690 Unify-X BIOS A81U4
Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 M-Die
12700K

Max stable was 6600 32-39-39-30 with very tight secondary/tertiary. 6800 wouldnt stabilize, and 7000 would insta-blue screen Windows on boot up.

Same board, BIOS, RAM, but with 13900K.. currently stress-testing 7200 in Windows with minimal voltage tweaking.

I bought a set of A-Die as well, but I think the motherboard is tapping out above 7400. I can post 7400 with almost any combo of voltage, but 7433 or above will not POST. I get to 4C P-Code, and then it goes to 55 and recycles training. I tried a bunch of different voltages and raised timings. I tried 7800 and 8000 as well, just to see if it was a freq hole, but seems it's limited on the board. I noticed incorrect CPU VDD2 or DRAM VDDQ will cause that 4C P-Code hang (at least on Unify-X), but no matter what combo of voltage I give it, no POST. I've been trying for the past 4hrs, since I got home with the chip, to get it to POST at 7600. Finally gave up.

My M-Die is pumping, though! 1.50v DRAM VDD, 1.48v DRAM VDDQ at 7200 is cruising at 34-44-44-34 (just test timings) with all secondary/tertiary on Auto. RTL are high at 72, lol.


----------



## jeiselramos

acoustic said:


> Recap time..
> 
> Z690 Unify-X BIOS A81U4
> Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 M-Die
> 12700K
> 
> Max stable was 6600 32-39-39-30 with very tight secondary/tertiary. 6800 wouldnt stabilize, and 7000 would insta-blue screen Windows on boot up.
> 
> Same board, BIOS, RAM, but with 13900K.. currently stress-testing 7200 in Windows with minimal voltage tweaking.
> 
> I bought a set of A-Die as well, but I think the motherboard is tapping out above 7400. I can post 7400 with almost any combo of voltage, but 7433 or above will not POST. I get to 4C P-Code, and then it goes to 55 and recycles training. I tried a bunch of different voltages and raised timings. I tried 7800 and 8000 as well, just to see if it was a freq hole, but seems it's limited on the board. I noticed incorrect CPU VDD2 or DRAM VDDQ will cause that 4C P-Code hang (at least on Unify-X), but no matter what combo of voltage I give it, no POST. I've been trying for the past 4hrs, since I got home with the chip, to get it to POST at 7600. Finally gave up.
> 
> My M-Die is pumping, though! 1.50v DRAM VDD, 1.48v DRAM VDDQ at 7200 is cruising at 34-44-44-34 (just test timings) with all secondary/tertiary on Auto. RTL are high at 72, lol.


Did you try slot A and slot B individually?


----------



## acoustic

jeiselramos said:


> Did you try slot A and slot B individually?


For 7600? No, not yet. I may try that in a bit. I know both slots can do 7400, tested that with the M-Die kit a few weeks ago.


----------



## pipes

sulalin said:


> 13900K+Z790 APEX DDR5-10000MHZ 開風冷ROG Z790 APEX DDR5 OC 10000MHZ ON AIRCOOLING
> ROG Z790 APEX DDR5-11130MHZ lupin_no_musume 內存頻率得分：5564.8 MHz with a DDR5 SDRAM
> 來源：ROG官方
> 
> Don't doubt! ROG Z790 APEX
> IS THIS GENERATION OF Z790 BOARD KING.
> 
> View attachment 2577004
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577002
> 
> View attachment 2576998
> 
> View attachment 2576999
> 
> View attachment 2577007


beautiful animal ... so it will be white and no longer black?


----------



## bscool

7600 XMP up for back order at time of posting 

G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com


----------



## acoustic

Giving up on the A-Die. Even at 7400, it takes pretty loose timings to post, and then I can't get it to start rolling in Karhu. I'm actually really disappointed with how loose the tRAS needs to be in order to get the board to POST. I had to go way up to 52 tRAS to POST, and then it failed instantly in Karhu 😂

The "ding" sound Karhu makes when it detects an error will be in my ****ing nightmares tonight.

Spent like 8hrs messing with it. Went back to my M-Die kit again, will get 7000 dialed in enough to run Karhu overnight.. hopefully it passes, then start checking out the CPU. Will do an early test to see the bin, and then de-lid it.


----------



## newls1

man, im very confused.. my 12900KS was super stable 6800 speeds, but this 13900 i got today not so much but also havent changed any mem voltage settings, still using the settings from the 12900ks.. Does 13th gen not like something in perticular that 12th gen did? lower voltages on things? any tips please?!


----------



## bscool

7200 Gskill in stock at time of posting.

G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RS - Newegg.com

Back order black

G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Intel XMP 3.0 Desktop Memory Model F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - Newegg.com


----------



## z390e

still in stock, verified, good look @bscool


----------



## AngryLobster

Hope they pop up else where. I refuse to buy from newegg.


----------



## KedarWolf

AngryLobster said:


> Hope they pop up else where. I refuse to buy from newegg.


Newegg has a really great return policy though. I send my original DDR4 CL14 3600 back when it performed like crap, second kit was awesome.

Just be sure to give them the right reason you're returning it. If you say you bought it by mistake or something, they'll charge a restocking fee.


----------



## QXE

8000mbps boot attempt…. Tomorrow I’ll have a 13900K so I can attempt to stabilize. No Z790 yet.


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> Yeah it was just 1 M2 RGB filler/dummy. I didn't really pay much attention, looks like junk to me
> 
> It looks like that, but no ssd included.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color RGB M.2 SSD & FILLER KIT
> 
> 
> 【PRODUCT DESCRIPTION】 【WARRANTY】 3-year Warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net


How high can you set the DRAM voltage on those sticks with High or Extreme Voltage Mode enabled?


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> Not much to report on v color 72000 XMP A die. Been messing with them but cant get anything stable. I see they changed XMP to [email protected]
> 
> Unless I got a bad stick or kit but even at jdec 5600 sometimes they wont boot code 55 or glitchy. Tried all kinds of bioses, timings and voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0564/4976/1447/files/R5MANTAXPRISMRGB7200CL36_d4633a31-75a5-4642-8b85-6d8fcad78a92.png?v=1665561288
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7200MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory
> 
> 
> 【Free RGB dummies with 7200MHz!】 Starting from October 19th 2022, with the purchase of a 7200MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** - The color (Black or White) will be picked randomly for every shipment (It'll be a surprise!)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the process now of testing each stick individually to see if I have a bad/weak stick. Tried 2021 and 2022 Apex and 3 different cpus 12900k/kf/ks.
> 
> Can boot and bench 7400c32 on Kingston 6000c40 m die so I know the MB and CPUs can do it.
> 
> The best I have gotten to run y cruncher is 7200 on the A die.
> 
> Edit just got a single stick to y cruncher 7800. Looks like I need to run primaries looser than I have been.


How high can you set the DRAM voltage on those sticks with Extreme Voltage Mode enabled?


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> Giving up on the A-Die. Even at 7400, it takes pretty loose timings to post, and then I can't get it to start rolling in Karhu. I'm actually really disappointed with how loose the tRAS needs to be in order to get the board to POST. I had to go way up to 52 tRAS to POST, and then it failed instantly in Karhu 😂
> 
> The "ding" sound Karhu makes when it detects an error will be in my ****ing nightmares tonight.
> 
> Spent like 8hrs messing with it. Went back to my M-Die kit again, will get 7000 dialed in enough to run Karhu overnight.. hopefully it passes, then start checking out the CPU. Will do an early test to see the bin, and then de-lid it.


Min trfc is like 470 on A-die 7200+, so try 480 trfc


----------



## bscool

KedarWolf said:


> How high can you set the DRAM voltage on those sticks with Extreme Voltage Mode enabled?


Depends on the voltage from 1.5 up to 2v+. Same as any other kit that has unlocked PMIC.


----------



## KedarWolf

bscool said:


> Depends on the voltage from 1.5 up to 2v+. Same as any other kit that has unlocked PMIC.


Thank you.

Edit: I checked with V-Color about my 7200MHz Manta A-Die RAM. They said it supports overvolting the DRAM so I'm assuming it has an unlocked PMIC and they never answered me when I asked them if it is actually unlocked.

"Thanks for your message, and I’m glad to know that you were able to figure out the situation.



Regarding the PMIC module:


The DRAM stick is equipped with RICHTEK PMIC module
It can be overvolted to over 1.435


Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.



Thanks!

Best Regards,

V-Color."

They are unlocked.









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


My understanding is that every PMIC can be overvolted if BIOS supports high dram voltage option. So, it is not a "special" OC PMIC itself that has to be installed on the stick. Right?




www.overclock.net


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Giving up on the A-Die. Even at 7400, it takes pretty loose timings to post, and then I can't get it to start rolling in Karhu. I'm actually really disappointed with how loose the tRAS needs to be in order to get the board to POST. I had to go way up to 52 tRAS to POST, and then it failed instantly in Karhu 😂
> 
> The "ding" sound Karhu makes when it detects an error will be in my ****ing nightmares tonight.
> 
> Spent like 8hrs messing with it. Went back to my M-Die kit again, will get 7000 dialed in enough to run Karhu overnight.. hopefully it passes, then start checking out the CPU. Will do an early test to see the bin, and then de-lid it.


Adie vs Mdie

only diff is trtp & trfc is higher 

everything else follows the same ram timing logic


----------



## KedarWolf

opt33 said:


> My v color A die, increasing dram voltage to 1.45 or above = instant errors in karhu regardless of other settings and regardless of dram temp, the higher the voltage the worse instability.
> 
> -basic xmp (7200c34) at 1.4v vdd/vddq = stable karhu 30 minutes, max temp 55C. Only increased vdd/vddq to 1.45 (no other changes) and karhu errors in under 10 seconds ram temp 37c max. Back to 1.4vdd/vddq ran karhu for 40 minutes no issues. back to 1.45 vdd/vddq erred in 9 seconds. Raised dram vdd/vddq to 1.52/1.52 and bsod loading windows.
> 
> Either temp related where no temp sensor exists or just voltage issue. ? something instantly overheating just not where temp sensors are. A/C air with box fan didnt help.
> 
> Once I learned to keep vdd/vddq at 1.42 or below, the ram is now out of sledge hammer danger. Now I can start lowering settings, just keeping voltage as is.
> View attachment 2575844


Can you share a Thaiphoon Burner screenshot and the SPD dump of your V-Color RAM?


----------



## sulalin

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Hey, look guys he has the best Apex out of the bunch that there will ever be + wait for the next ten users to enter the chat with the exact same insanely good motherboards and memory and CPUs and cooling setups. I feel like we've seen this happen before perhaps with the Z690 Apex FROM ASUS but, now it's different this time around. I wonder how you got your hands on all this prime stuff bro?
> 
> Let me guess " in reality which you will never reveal to us plebs " it was all given to you but, in your perceived to us fake reality it wasn't given to you because you're known to spend all of your hard-earned money on all of your equipment on the interwebs, then you give it back to the manufacturer to help them and show how much you care about everyone homeless in Taiwan?


I don't have any pictures I can find on the Internet like the z790 APEX!

Don't change to a normal Z690 APEX if you don't have the skills and say that other people's is free, you are like most people! If you don't have it yourself! If others have it, say that others are free!

You will never reveal your level and your ability like others!

Even if a personal gamer like me has the highest memory frequency overclocking at MSI and ASUS, when DDR4/DDR5 is the world's number one personal gamer's memory frequency, you still have to spend money to buy a motherboard!

When you have the ability to change the first, the motherboard factory may see your insignificant existence!

Now is a very good time! The 13th generation + ADIE is the time to pretend to be tender B!

Come on! It's time for trash!


----------



## cstkl1

difference vs mdie is this











also trfc i am just using 15.6ns cause passive cool. just testing out da stick whether its worthy to be wc. its not.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> Adie vs Mdie
> 
> only diff is trtp & trfc is higher
> 
> everything else follows the same ram timing logic



That's basically my experience as well. Slightly more tRFC and tRTP for 15% extra clock speed.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> Adie vs Mdie
> 
> only diff is trtp & trfc is higher
> 
> everything else follows the same ram timing logic


Could be bad bin on my sticks, or motherboard being fussy at 7400. I cannot for the life of me figure out why 7600 is being such a pain.. seems related to CPU VDD2.

I was running high 500s tRFC at 7400, but it seems like even that may not have been high enough. I do know that changing tRAS from 46 to 52 was what changed my ability to POST. I'll likely try the sticks again today, but was getting worn out with the lack of success.

I did get my M-Die kit to 7000 and running past 1400% Karhu. Left it on overnight, about to go check on it to see how it did. Edit: damn, error at 2202% lol.. right after I went to bed hahaha

What kind of SA voltage are you guys finding for 7600+ is needed on the 13th gen?


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Could be bad bin on my sticks, or motherboard being fussy at 7400. I cannot for the life of me figure out why 7600 is being such a pain.. seems related to CPU VDD2.
> 
> I was running high 500s tRFC at 7400, but it seems like even that may not have been high enough. I do know that changing tRAS from 46 to 52 was what changed my ability to POST. I'll likely try the sticks again today, but was getting worn out with the lack of success.
> 
> I did get my M-Die kit to 7000 and running past 1400% Karhu. Left it on overnight, about to go check on it to see how it did. Edit: damn, error at 2202% lol.. right after I went to bed hahaha
> 
> What kind of SA voltage are you guys finding for 7600+ is needed on the 13th gen?


board?


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

So basically how far i should go back to find discussions about M die only.  Save me some time please ( z690 mdie )


----------



## sblantipodi

hello, how well does 13900K with DDR5?
is there someone who tried 4 sticks?


----------



## asdkj1740

not mine. it seems gigabyte z790 has greatly improved on ddr5 oc.


13900k
gigabyte z790 areo g
hynix m die 16g*2

7000mhz stable, by using gigabyte xmp booster 6400c44 profile.
















試玩I9 13900K和GIGABYTE Z790 AERO G - 悠二硬件Yujihw


在NDA前最後一日我們終於有時間撚化自己這粒13900K。我們特意挑選所謂BIOS極難用的技嘉Z790底板AE




yujihw.com


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> 13900k
> gigabyte z790 areo g
> hynix m die 16g*2
> 
> 7000mhz stable, by using gigabyte xmp booster 6400c44 profile.
> View attachment 2577161


i am shock u posted c44. lol


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> i am shock u posted c44. lol


gigabyte profile lmao


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> board?


Z690 Unify-X


----------



## newls1

please help me if you have a a few minutes! My prior easy 6800MHz OC with my gskills (CL32 6400 kit) that was stable as a rock on my 12900ks is not stable on this 13900K. What voltages should I mess with as im still very confused with all the DDR5 voltage settings to adjust.. HEre is a pic of my voltages. If I drop down to 6600 all is fine. I thought the mem controller would have been BETTER in 13th gen, im getting pissed!!


----------



## warbucks

newls1 said:


> please help me if you have a a few minutes! My prior easy 6800MHz OC with my gskills (CL32 6400 kit) that was stable as a rock on my 12900ks is not stable on this 13900K. What voltages should I mess with as im still very confused with all the DDR5 voltage settings to adjust.. HEre is a pic of my voltages. If I drop down to 6600 all is fine. I thought the mem controller would have been BETTER in 13th gen, im getting pissed!!
> 
> View attachment 2577162


Which bios version are you using on your Unify-X?


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> please help me if you have a a few minutes! My prior easy 6800MHz OC with my gskills (CL32 6400 kit) that was stable as a rock on my 12900ks is not stable on this 13900K. What voltages should I mess with as im still very confused with all the DDR5 voltage settings to adjust.. HEre is a pic of my voltages. If I drop down to 6600 all is fine. I thought the mem controller would have been BETTER in 13th gen, im getting pissed!!
> 
> View attachment 2577162


The 13th generation IMC voltage should not be too high, preferably within 1.385, relatively stable, normal, and AUTO is the best


----------



## sulalin

KedarWolf said:


> How high can you set the DRAM voltage on those sticks with Extreme Voltage Mode enabled?


The same set of memory has different voltages on different IMC physiques on different CPUs!!
For your reference I'm on a 12th generation 690
The highest voltage used under MDIE air cooling is 1.85V 1.65V
ADIE 1.81V 1.74V


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE 7800XMP Z790 HERO 7600 16G*2 1.26V


----------



## newls1

warbucks said:


> Which bios version are you using on your Unify-X?


the latest one on their site.. think its A81


----------



## newls1

sulalin said:


> The 13th generation IMC voltage should not be too high, preferably within 1.385, relatively stable, normal, and AUTO is the best


Is this for VDDQ TX voltage thats set for 1.30v in pic?


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> Is this for CPU VDD2?


Are you using the Z690 UX? If so, I will advise you not to touch the voltages of the CPU VDDQ SA and let him do it automatically!

DDR5 memory overclocking On Z690 UX, you only need to activate DRAM VDD VDDQ !!! DRAM VPP will automatically give you the voltage even if you give it manually

Even the Ln2 extreme overclocking memory only needs to move the DRAM VDD VDDQ because my UX DRAM VPP gives 1.95V and it is 2.3V under LN2


----------



## newls1

sulalin said:


> Are you using the Z690 UX? If so, I will advise you not to touch the voltages of the CPU VDDQ SA and let him do it automatically!
> 
> DDR5 memory overclocking On Z690 UX, you only need to activate DRAM VDD VDDQ !!! DRAM VPP will automatically give you the voltage even if you give it manually
> 
> Even the Ln2 extreme overclocking memory only needs to move the DRAM VDD VDDQ because my UX DRAM VPP gives 1.95V and it is 2.3V under LN2


yes sir, i am on the unify X. If I leave all mem voltages on auto they skyrocket to 1.45v on cpu vvdq, SA goes to 1.40, etc..... Im confused with what you are trying to say here sir?


----------



## newls1

this is where im at currently with the mem... if I go to 6800 (Where it was stable with the 12900, this 13900 falls on its face) so im trying to see which voltages to play with to start scaling again


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Z690 Unify-X


asus geniuses figured out a way to solve the trfc debacle on hynix that also existed in ddr4 for mdie/adie. 

so not sure u guys have that feature. its crtical


----------



## KedarWolf

ThinbinJim said:


> I received my sticks yesterday. They remind me of Trident Z Royal Silvers and look way better IRL than they do in renders.
> 
> View attachment 2575238
> 
> View attachment 2575239
> 
> 
> FYI - Mine has locked PMIC, can't say for sure yours will be. I can't get it to load windows with xmp if vdd / vddq are set higher than 1.435v.


They DON'T have a locked PMIC. This is confirmed as unlocked by @Veii who is one of the most knowledgable people on this forum about memory overclocking and if you see here, they are unlocked. Did you enable Extreme Overclocking or like the below on your board?









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


My understanding is that every PMIC can be overvolted if BIOS supports high dram voltage option. So, it is not a "special" OC PMIC itself that has to be installed on the stick. Right?




www.overclock.net





Regarding the PMIC module:

The DRAM stick is equipped with RICHTEK PMIC module
It can be overvolted to over 1.435


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> yes sir, i am on the unify X. If I leave all mem voltages on auto they skyrocket to 1.45v on cpu vvdq, SA goes to 1.40, etc..... Im confused with what you are trying to say here sir?


UX's SA CPU VDDQ, the voltage of these three connected together! All use AUTO UX to give a higher automatic voltage than ASUS when overclocking the memory
There is no doubt that using AUTO is just fine because I used two UXs in LN2 for overclocking and the MSI frequency is the highest for personal gamers and the first person to use MSIZ690 UX MDIE to break the world record without closing the channel. It is also the only one using DDR5 to break the record with single and dual channels. Others are single and single channel and I have bought nearly 30 MSI motherboards for MSI Z590

You only need to adjust the memory voltage and memory VPP 1.85~1.9V, if it is not enough, he will add it himself


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> this is where im at currently with the mem... if I go to 6800 (Where it was stable with the 12900, this 13900 falls on its face) so im trying to see which voltages to play with to start scaling again
> 
> View attachment 2577170


If you use ADIE on 13th gen CPU+ to find out CPU IMC voltage on UX should be CPU VDDQ or something go to lower it to around 1.25`1.3V go to run stability test


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> Is this for VDDQ TX voltage thats set for 1.30v in pic?


ou can ask which is the IMC voltage of UX on the forum!
I haven't used an MSI board for a long time and forgot what the voltage in the BIOS means


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE 7800XMP 16G*4 OC 7000MHZ Are you ready? 1.41V


----------



## newls1

sulalin said:


> ou can ask which is the IMC voltage of UX on the forum!
> I haven't used an MSI board for a long time and forgot what the voltage in the BIOS means


you are confusing the hell out of me, i thank you for trying to help, but im not understanding a word you are typing. Im on MDiem, I am on a unify X, and memory isnt clocking for crap on this 13th gen and I have to be missing something here, surely the IMC isnt this bad, and refuse to take that as the answer


----------



## sulalin

sblantipodi，帖子：29050916，成員：427422 said:


> 你好，13900K 和 DDR5 怎麼樣？
> 有人試過4根嗎？
> [/引用]


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> you are confusing the hell out of me, i thank you for trying to help, but im not understanding a word you are typing. Im on MDiem, I am on a unify X, and memory isnt clocking for crap on this 13th gen and I have to be missing something here, surely the IMC isnt this bad, and refuse to take that as the answer


I'm sorry I used the translation provided by GOOGLE !! So some words may not be my original meaning and they are translated by GOOGLE!!!

What I mean is that if it is a 13th generation CPU with ADIE on the UX, you can try to change the CPU IMC voltage which is translated by ASUS on the UX. First ask why the CPU IMC voltage is translated on the UX? Then try to lower it! If it doesn't help! I'm so sorry!


----------



## sulalin

Streamroller said:


> So basically how far i should go back to find discussions about M die only.  Save me some time please ( z690 mdie )


Give you some picture reference 690+MDIE
There are diagrams of locked voltage and unlocked voltage


Spoiler: MDIE-Unlock voltage



























































































































































Spoiler: MDIE-lock voltage


----------



## Gadfly

sulalin said:


> DARK memory doesn't have 100:133 / 100:100 option?


You mean the gear modes? Yes.


----------



## newls1

what is the msi google drive link for beta bioses?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> you are confusing the hell out of me, i thank you for trying to help, but im not understanding a word you are typing. Im on MDiem, I am on a unify X, and memory isnt clocking for crap on this 13th gen and I have to be missing something here, surely the IMC isnt this bad, and refuse to take that as the answer


He is saying to lower 3 voltages,: cpu sa, cpu vdd2, and cpu vddq. Apparently those 3 need to be lower for 13900k vs 12900k. I would use your current bios (81) most recent on msi site. 

He was saying to try auto as auto probably works well on ASUS, but auto may not work on unifyx for13900k, even on 12900k it overvolted sa severely. Im getting my 13900 tomorrow (supposedly) currently reinstalling my OS after testing A die corrupted it beyond repair, Im back to my m die, which is very stable. So will be more help after I play around with mine.


----------



## sulalin

Gadfly said:


> You mean the gear modes? Yes.


Maybe he directly includes the frequencies that can be opened at 100:100 and 100:133 in the frequency that the memory can choose?


----------



## acoustic

I got 7000 on M-Die 14K Karhu stable with the Unify-X and 13900K!! I couldn't get 6800 stable no matter what I tried with the same sticks and board with 12700K. Turns out CPU VDDQ needed 1.385v. 1.38 or 1.39 was no good; that 0.005v change did it though!

Timings are somewhat loose right now for testing; 34-44-44-34 w/ tRFC @ 574. Only 1.42v DRAM VDD and 1.41v DRAM VDDQ! 

Took that same setup pushed to 7200, went to 1.44v DRAM VDD, and changed CPU VDDQ to 1.38v, and currently at 400% Karhu and still going!! Yay! Glad to finally find a bit of success. I'm actually very satisfied with 7000 if I can tighten the timings up. Also, my IceManCooler heatsinks and waterblock should be delivered Tuesday, Oct 25. I'll de-lid the chip that same day.

Very excited to make some progress after banging my head against the wall for hours yesterday! Thanks for the help @cstkl1 and thanks @sulalin for sharing experiences w/ the UX.

I will probably stick to my M-Die for 24/7 use if I can get it stable at 7200 with good timings. I'll mess around with the A-Die kit again at some point in the next day or two.. I think raising tRFC even higher than I had it may help.

Does the frequency bump make up for the higher latency due to loose tRFC and tRTP?


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> He is saying to lower 3 voltages,: cpu sa, cpu vdd2, and cpu vddq. Apparently those 3 need to be lower for 13900k vs 12900k. I would use your current bios (81) most recent on msi site.
> 
> He was saying to try auto as auto probably works well on ASUS, but auto may not work on unifyx for13900k, even on 12900k it overvolted sa severely. Im getting my 13900 tomorrow (supposedly) currently reinstalling my OS after testing A die corrupted it beyond repair, Im back to my m die, which is very stable. So will be more help after I play around with mine.


im drowning here and would greatly appreciate whatever help you can provide sir! I am using the latest on msi's site (A81) but can NOT go over 6600 with out instant errors.... Was going to try A81.4 on the beta google drive I saw a few days ago, but cant find the damn link for that msi google drive again. Was hoping maybe that beta bios would fix this M-Die issue


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> im drowning here and would greatly appreciate whatever help you can provide sir! I am using the latest on msi's site (A81) but can NOT go over 6600 with out instant errors.... Was going to try A81.4 on the beta google drive I saw a few days ago, but cant find the damn link for that msi google drive again. Was hoping maybe that beta bios would fix this M-Die issue


It wont, a81 is more recent than beta 81.4. once new beta bios comes out will be named for example 82.1, then 82.2, then when final, named 82.


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> im drowning here and would greatly appreciate whatever help you can provide sir! I am using the latest on msi's site (A81) but can NOT go over 6600 with out instant errors.... Was going to try A81.4 on the beta google drive I saw a few days ago, but cant find the damn link for that msi google drive again. Was hoping maybe that beta bios would fix this M-Die issue


I posted a link to it in the Unify-X thread, check the last page or page prior to it. edit: here you go









[OFFICIAL] MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X Owners Thread


This is really strange, when I had BIOS bug and contacted MSI official channel, they were onto it pretty quickly. I do not think that you can get direct contact to BIOS developers. What is the MSI official channel?




www.overclock.net





Try 1.385v CPU VDDQ, 1.40v CPU VDD2, and set CPU SA to Offset Mode, "+", then AUTO. It should go to ~0.925-0.930v. I'm running 7000 no problem, and making big progress on 7200 with M-Die.

1.385v CPU VDDQ was the secret sauce for me at 7000. Also running 1.41 DRAM VDDQ helped a ton as well.



opt33 said:


> It wont, a81 is more recent than beta 81.4. once new beta bios comes out will be named for example 82.1, then 82.2, then when final, named 82.


A81U4 is newer than the A81 on MSI page. A81 has a Sept 29 build date, and A81U4 has an Oct 11 build date.


----------



## asdkj1740

newls1 said:


> what is the msi google drive link for beta bioses?


which model do you need


----------



## asdkj1740

newls1 said:


> im drowning here and would greatly appreciate whatever help you can provide sir! I am using the latest on msi's site (A81) but can NOT go over 6600 with out instant errors.... Was going to try A81.4 on the beta google drive I saw a few days ago, but cant find the damn link for that msi google drive again. Was hoping maybe that beta bios would fix this M-Die issue


someone uploaded a81u4 for unify x here recently.


----------



## opt33

*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


NDA on a beta BIOS for a motherboard released a year ago ok I’m just ****ing with you https://t.co/axsYhP7nr5




www.overclock.net




a81u4 posted here


----------



## asdkj1740

文件分享







share.weiyun.com




if you want it tell me which one do you want


----------



## Gadfly

sulalin said:


> Maybe he directly includes the frequencies that can be opened at 100:100 and 100:133 in the frequency that the memory can choose?


I am sorry, I am having trouble understanding what you are asking. 

Yes, all the 100:100, and 100:133 frequencies are there.


----------



## 2500k_2

8333 XMP о_О


----------



## chibi

asdkj1740 said:


> 文件分享
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you want it tell me which one you want


May I get the link for the latest z690i Unify ITX? I tried your link but don't have qq/wechat account. Thanks

Edit - will it also support 13900k?


----------



## asdkj1740

chibi said:


> May I get the link for the latest z690i Unify ITX? I tried your link but don't have qq/wechat account. Thanks
> 
> Edit - will it also support 13900k?


change it back to rar


----------



## chibi

asdkj1740 said:


> change it back to rar


I got it, ty! Will this bios support 13900k?


----------



## asdkj1740

chibi said:


> I got it, ty! Will this bios support 13900k?


i believe so.


----------



## affxct

Is it just me guys, or does RPL D5 OCing seem like a lost cause? At least with Z690 the stuff I’m reading makes it seem as though the Dark is basically not viable for RPL, and the Unify-X seems to be having issues too. Is it pretty much going to be like RKL where you needed to purchase a Z590?


----------



## acoustic

I don't agree. Z690 Unify-X with 13900K unleashed my M-Die up to 7200. I couldn't even stabilize 6800 with same board and RAM with 12700K. I think it's doing just fine.

The A-Die kit.. that I'm not sure about, but that could just be the motherboard limitation at 7600; wouldn't be that shocking for a Unify-X.


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> I don't agree. Z690 Unify-X with 13900K unleashed my M-Die up to 7200. I couldn't even stabilize 6800 with same board and RAM with 12700K. I think it's doing just fine.
> 
> The A-Die kit.. that I'm not sure about, but that could just be the motherboard limitation at 7600; wouldn't be that shocking for a Unify-X.


what are your mem settings and mem voltages set to if you dont mind me asking and what bios are you using?? Im struggling over here just trying to get my old 6800 speeds back that my 12900ks easily hit...


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> what are your mem settings and mem voltages set to if you dont mind me asking and what bios are you using?? Im struggling over here just trying to get my old 6800 speeds back that my 12900ks easily hit...


A81U4

Haven't tightened up 7000 yet. Currently 34-44-44-34, secondary and tertiary on Auto.

DRAM VDD @ 1.425 v // DRAM VDDQ @ 1.410v // DRAM VPP @ 1.810v

It's a new chip, you gotta learn what voltages it wants.


----------



## newls1

y'all...... I figured out my problem with not getting 6800 stable like it was on my old chip.. I FORGOT TO CHANGE MY PRIMARY TIMINGS..... OOPS!!! Ive been trying for 6800 with 32-39-39 and this ram MUST BE @ 32-40-40 for 6800.. All fixed!


----------



## Nizzen

Just started... Wish me luck with testing the newest bios 
Holding mouse over "coverage" in Ram Test -> 340MB+ /s is pretty fast


----------



## tps3443

Are you a human?







www.newegg.com






7200C34 kits back in stock!!!
Hynix A-Die


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> y'all...... I figured out my problem with not getting 6800 stable like it was on my old chip.. I FORGOT TO CHANGE MY PRIMARY TIMINGS..... OOPS!!! Ive been trying for 6800 with 32-39-39 and this ram MUST BE @ 32-40-40 for 6800.. All fixed!


Here is 7000MT/s Y-Cruncher with untuned memory... is this a good score for just starting? I honestly have no idea. Finally got this somewhat figured out! The 12900KS couldnt ever get a y-cruncher pass at ANYTHING OVER 6800!! This is a big bonus for me. I love this 13900K!


----------



## asdkj1740

shared by toppc.
as buildzoid said, fcck the e cores.


----------



## CptSpig

Nizzen said:


> Just started... Wish me luck with testing the newest bios
> Holding mouse over "coverage" in Ram Test -> 340MB+ /s is pretty fast
> View attachment 2577261


OEM Green Sticks?


----------



## sulalin

你可以擁有任何你喜歡的SPD！


----------



## z390e

@newls1 49.9 is a wicked fast y-cruncher 2.5b imo, its almost 10s faster than the best I have with 12900KS.


----------



## acoustic

z390e said:


> @newls1 49.9 is a wicked fast y-cruncher 2.5b imo, its almost 10s faster than the best I have with 12900KS.


And to think that's without AVX-512 support.


----------



## Nizzen

CptSpig said:


> OEM Green Sticks?


Yes


----------



## z390e

FWIW looks like 13900K is as low as 41s on y-cruncher 2.5b right now on LN2


----------



## z390e

acoustic said:


> And to think that's without AVX-512 support.


Its 12900KS with 8 more e-cores and faster p-cores though.


----------



## acoustic

z390e said:


> Its 12900KS with 8 more e-cores and faster p-cores though.


Yeah. I'd like to see what these updated P-Cores could do with AVX-512


----------



## z390e

yeah the avx-512 on stuff like y-cruncher is just so good

Has anyone on these forums done a 12900KS avx512 unlock? I think @TheNaitsyrk had an avx-512 chip I believe but may have been just a K.

I haven't seen anyone post one yet.


----------



## sulalin

z390e said:


> yeah the avx-512 on stuff like y-cruncher is just so good
> 
> Has anyone on these forums done a 12900KS avx512 unlock? I think @TheNaitsyrk had an avx-512 chip I believe but may have been just a K.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone post one yet.


In my impression, if KS does not have a QS version, there should be no AVX512. Early QS and some early official versions also have AVX512. I updated APEX 2103BIOS, and without U15 CODE, AVX512 cannot be turned on.


----------



## acoustic

z390e said:


> yeah the avx-512 on stuff like y-cruncher is just so good
> 
> Has anyone on these forums done a 12900KS avx512 unlock? I think @TheNaitsyrk had an avx-512 chip I believe but may have been just a K.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone post one yet.


12900KS has no AVX512 support. Only OG 12xxxK models have the support if you use the older U Code

I didn't know QS 12900KS had AVX512 either. That's news to me!


----------



## sulalin

acoustic said:


> 12900KS has no AVX512 support. Only OG 12xxxK models have the support if you use the older U Code
> 
> I didn't know QS 12900KS had AVX512 either. That's news to me!


I mean there is no QS version for the 12900KS!


----------



## acoustic

sulalin said:


> I mean there is no QS version for the 12900KS!


Ah okay. Sorry, I misunderstood


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

sulalin said:


> Give you some picture reference 690+MDIE
> There are diagrams of locked voltage and unlocked voltage
> 
> 
> Spoiler: MDIE-Unlock voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577181
> 
> View attachment 2577182
> 
> View attachment 2577180
> 
> View attachment 2577183
> 
> View attachment 2577179
> 
> View attachment 2577187
> 
> View attachment 2577186
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577188
> 
> View attachment 2577185
> 
> View attachment 2577184
> 
> View attachment 2577191
> 
> View attachment 2577190
> 
> View attachment 2577192
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577189
> 
> View attachment 2577193
> 
> View attachment 2577194
> 
> View attachment 2577196
> 
> View attachment 2577195
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: MDIE-lock voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577202
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577197
> 
> View attachment 2577200
> 
> View attachment 2577201
> 
> View attachment 2577199
> 
> View attachment 2577198
> 
> View attachment 2577215
> 
> View attachment 2577214
> 
> View attachment 2577212
> 
> View attachment 2577210
> 
> View attachment 2577209
> 
> View attachment 2577213
> 
> View attachment 2577211
> 
> View attachment 2577208
> 
> View attachment 2577206
> 
> View attachment 2577207
> 
> View attachment 2577205





sulalin said:


> Give you some picture reference 690+MDIE
> There are diagrams of locked voltage and unlocked voltage
> 
> 
> Spoiler: MDIE-Unlock voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577181
> 
> View attachment 2577182
> 
> View attachment 2577180
> 
> View attachment 2577183
> 
> View attachment 2577179
> 
> View attachment 2577187
> 
> View attachment 2577186
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577188
> 
> View attachment 2577185
> 
> View attachment 2577184
> 
> View attachment 2577191
> 
> View attachment 2577190
> 
> View attachment 2577192
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577189
> 
> View attachment 2577193
> 
> View attachment 2577194
> 
> View attachment 2577196
> 
> View attachment 2577195
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: MDIE-lock voltage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577202
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577197
> 
> View attachment 2577200
> 
> View attachment 2577201
> 
> View attachment 2577199
> 
> View attachment 2577198
> 
> View attachment 2577215
> 
> View attachment 2577214
> 
> View attachment 2577212
> 
> View attachment 2577210
> 
> View attachment 2577209
> 
> View attachment 2577213
> 
> View attachment 2577211
> 
> View attachment 2577208
> 
> View attachment 2577206
> 
> View attachment 2577207
> 
> View attachment 2577205


Thank you <3 I am using 13700KF lets see if IMC matters on Z690


----------



## z390e

sulalin said:


> I mean there is no QS version for the 12900KS!


Its definitely been done, by @safedisk Here is his y-cruncher with 12900ks if you look CPU-Z AVX512


----------



## newls1

z390e said:


> Its 12900KS with 8 more e-cores and faster p-cores though.


not really.. Better mem controller, more cache, decoupled e-cores from ring, so we can clock ring and e cores higher, etc... Im really diggin this new 13th gen.


----------



## z390e

yeah good points, wasn't discounting them, just pointing out the comparison wasn't 16-16


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> I posted a link to it in the Unify-X thread, check the last page or page prior to it. edit: here you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X Owners Thread
> 
> 
> This is really strange, when I had BIOS bug and contacted MSI official channel, they were onto it pretty quickly. I do not think that you can get direct contact to BIOS developers. What is the MSI official channel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try 1.385v CPU VDDQ, 1.40v CPU VDD2, and set CPU SA to Offset Mode, "+", then AUTO. It should go to ~0.925-0.930v. I'm running 7000 no problem, and making big progress on 7200 with M-Die.
> 
> 1.385v CPU VDDQ was the secret sauce for me at 7000. Also running 1.41 DRAM VDDQ helped a ton as well.
> 
> 
> 
> A81U4 is newer than the A81 on MSI page. A81 has a Sept 29 build date, and A81U4 has an Oct 11 build date.


big time help here , thank you


----------



## newls1

for whatever reason, my asrock timing app wont work correctly since i installed this 13900k. just reads 65545 for everything! Anyone have a link to a updated version?


----------



## sulalin

newls1 said:


> 無論出於種，自從自從我安裝安裝了這個這個這個這個這個這個這個後後，我我後後
> [/引用]try this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


----------



## Zero989

sulalin said:


> Samsung may need more than 7000 frequency to have a chance to delay within 50....
> Of course, the Samsung frequency can also be 7400 7500MHZ, and a single root can also be 8000MHZ+
> And the voltage is much lower than that from Hynix!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Samsung DDR5 has the advantage of high frequency!


Sub 50 with untuned timings using 13700KF.

32-33-32-32 1.435v 6400MT/s










XMP Profile at 6665MT/s










XMP Profile at 6800MT/s (unstable)


----------



## cstkl1

why are evga/unify alwasy disable ecore and ht??

🤔


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1，帖子：29051593，成員：341829 said:


> 為什麼 evga/unify 總是禁用 ecore 和 ht？
> 
> 🤔
> [/引用]Maybe in order to run GB3 memory score can be a little higher!!!......🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫
> View attachment 2577313


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> why are evga/unify alwasy disable ecore and ht??
> 
> 🤔


Maybe in order to run GB3 memory score can be a little higher!!!......🤫🤫🤫








Or turn on E and HT and can't open 8000MHZ...


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> why are evga/unify alwasy disable ecore and ht??
> 
> 🤔


I don't have those disabled. Chip is 100% stock right now, 7000 stable, working on tightening it right now.


----------



## stahlhart

Finally.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> I don't have those disabled. Chip is 100% stock right now, 7000 stable, working on tightening it right now.


yeah 13900k to be honest like y oc.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> yeah 13900k to be honest like y oc.


Undervolt seems best option


----------



## Zero989

cstkl1 said:


> why are evga/unify alwasy disable ecore and ht??
> 
> 🤔


I'm using PTM7950 sheet and I get too high temps with e cores and HT. 263 watts in some tests. HT off usually allows for higher overclock or less voltage at same clocks. I will eventually try for 6Ghz core and 5Ghz+ ring ratio. It's been this way with Intel for a long time, except my 11400 didn't benefit that much but Rocket Lake is crap.


----------



## Carillo

So, i got my retail 13900KF turd today. Sp 35, and hot like a summers day. Still, the imc is seems to be decent compared to 12th gen, Trying out the G.skill 6600 c34 820A on water.
Waiting for another batch of turds next week, so putting my delidd promise on hold. Sorry

8100 c32 on z690! 1.30 MC , 1,200 SA , 1,665 VVD/Q


----------



## acoustic

Carillo said:


> So, i got my retail 13900KF turd today. Sp 35, and hot like a summers day. Still, the imc is seems to be decent compared to 12th gen, Trying out the G.skill 6600 c34 820A on water.
> Waiting for another batch of turds next week, so putting my delidd promise on hold. Sorry
> 
> 8100 c32 on z690! 1.30 MC , 1,200 SA , 1,665 VVD/Q


SP 35? No ****ing way lol.. no chance it's SP bug?


----------



## asdkj1740

how to use the gallery mode just to check all the photos uploaded in this thread?


----------



## 673714

acoustic said:


> 12900KS has no AVX512 support. Only OG 12xxxK models have the support if you use the older U Code
> 
> I didn't know QS 12900KS had AVX512 either. That's news to me!


I just realized about a week or two ago my 12900k is one of those OG models. I spotted where it says "Yes" to AVX512 in Y-cruncher


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> So, i got my retail 13900KF turd today. Sp 35, and hot like a summers day. Still, the imc is seems to be decent compared to 12th gen, Trying out the G.skill 6600 c34 820A on water.
> Waiting for another batch of turds next week, so putting my delidd promise on hold. Sorry
> 
> 8100 c32 on z690! 1.30 MC , 1,200 SA , 1,665 VVD/Q
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577332


nice. lol was about to post mine later. 8k tm5 stable. lowering tcl now,


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> i am shock u posted c44. lol


gigabyte z790 should be on par with asus z690 4dimm mobo like z690 extreme now, finally.
z790 aero g 4dimm
hynxi m die 16g*2
13900k


----------



## pipes

13th series is so hot?


----------



## roooo

Hi folks, does anybody know what max mem clocks the Z690 Hero with 2103 BIOS can currently run? Would it recognize a 7600 XMP profile?


----------



## Ketku-

How many use here Bartx Heatsinks with waterblock?

I use Bitspower Heatsinks so want know mine vs Bartx Heatsinks. Temps want know


----------



## cstkl1

Ketku- said:


> How many use here Bartx Heatsinks with waterblock?
> 
> I use Bitspower Heatsinks so want know mine vs Bartx Heatsinks. Temps want know


supercool direct touch ram block da only one u need. 
anything else a cheap bykski would do


----------



## Carillo

acoustic said:


> SP 35? No ****ing way lol.. no chance it's SP bug?





Carillo said:


> So, i got my retail 13900KF turd today. Sp 35, and hot like a summers day. Still, the imc is seems to be decent compared to 12th gen, Trying out the G.skill 6600 c34 820A on water.
> Waiting for another batch of turds next week, so putting my delidd promise on hold. Sorry
> 
> 8100 c32 on z690! 1.30 MC , 1,200 SA , 1,665 VVD/Q
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577332





acoustic said:


> SP 35? No ****ing way lol.. no chance it's SP bug?


Just kidding. It’s a sp103. 114 p-cores and 84 e-cores. It’s actually quite cold to 😂


----------



## Ketku-

cstkl1 said:


> supercool direct touch ram block da only one u need.
> anything else a cheap bykski would do


Nah, i dont think so that is only choice. 

Mine rams are atm in WaterBlock+Bitspower Heatsinks, 30-34c temps stress test/gaming. Its good enough 

EDIT: Supercool is out of stock anyway.


----------



## Carillo

Ketku- said:


> Nah, i dont think so that is only choice.
> 
> Mine rams are atm in WaterBlock+Bitspower Heatsinks, 30-34c temps stress test/gaming. Its good enough


That depends on your goal. For most people, air cooled is good enough. The supercool dim coolers is superior to everything else in my opinion, because the delta is only 1-2C , and that makes it much easier to pass stability testing when pushing your IC to the max with high voltage. With other coolers i have seen delta as high as 10C, so you have apply extra voltage to compensate for the higher delta


----------



## Ketku-

Carillo said:


> That depends on your goal. For most people, air cooled is good enough. The supercool dim coolers is superior to everything else in my opinion, because the delta is only 1-2C , and that makes it much easier to pass stability testing when pushing your IC to the max with high voltage. With other coolers i have seen delta as high as 10C, so you have apply extra voltage to compensate for the higher delta


Yea, i agree the Supercool is maybe best for low delta. 

Mine delta is RAM about 3-5c when Stress Test or Gaming. Pretty good Custom Loop (2x XE480 + 2x XE360) its enough to me.


----------



## Ketku-

Never used MemTweakIt, allways change BIOS straight timings and come Windows test. Is that software good and real time change? If are stables and then go bios and change them there?

Sorry for noob question.


----------



## cstkl1

Ketku- said:


> Never used MemTweakIt, allways change BIOS straight timings and come Windows test. Is that software good and real time change? If are stables and then go bios and change them there?
> 
> Sorry for noob question.


ddr5 memtweakit essential. yes real time change

after confirm stable renter train and check


----------



## Ketku-

cstkl1 said:


> ddr5 memtweakit essential. yes real time change
> 
> after confirm stable renter train and check


Where that can download? Mine board is Z690 Apex.


----------



## bhav

newls1 said:


> y'all...... I figured out my problem with not getting 6800 stable like it was on my old chip.. I FORGOT TO CHANGE MY PRIMARY TIMINGS..... OOPS!!! Ive been trying for 6800 with 32-39-39 and this ram MUST BE @ 32-40-40 for 6800.. All fixed!


This is a pain on my current D4 kit as it doesn't boot at XMP Profile 19-19-19, only at 19-20-20.

But I didn't RMA it why? Earlier Crucial used to bin this ram into 4800 and 5100 XMPs, except hardly anyone could run those speeds because of IMC and mobo limitations (lol @ over £1000 for 5100CLwhatever).

So they simply repackaged these as 4400 19-19-19 kits, so my kit was one that had been tested at 4800 or 5100 XMP but resold as 4400.

I got a 4800 stable kit, so far, might do 5100+ on new mobo.

I know this is DDR5 thread, but this info is useful when shopping for ram, if it ever happens again.


----------



## sulalin

Ketku- said:


> Where that can download? Mine board is Z690 Apex.








MemTweakIt_20220317.rar







drive.google.com









AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar







drive.google.com




Both of these can be used


----------



## Ketku-

sulalin said:


> MemTweakIt_20220317.rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these can be used


Thank you mate, AsRock ofcourse have been since released. 

Need first time start using MemTweakIt.


----------



## sulalin

bhav，發布：29051886，成員：361279 said:


> 這對我當前的 D4 套件來說是一個痛苦，因為它不能在 XMP 配置文件 19-19-19 啟動，只能在 19-20-20 啟動。
> 
> 但是我沒有RMA，為什麼？早期的 Crucial 曾經將此 ram 分為 4800 和 5100 XMP，但由於 IMC 和 mobo 的限制，幾乎沒有人可以運行這些速度（哈哈 @ 5100CL 超過 1000 英鎊）。
> 
> 所以他們只是將這些重新包裝為 4400 19-19-19 套件，所以我的套件是在 4800 或 5100 XMP 測試但轉售為 4400 的套件。
> 
> 到目前為止，我有一個 4800 穩定套件，可能會在新主板上做 5100+。
> 
> 我知道這是 DDR5 線程，但是在購買 ram 時此信息很有用，如果它再次發生的話。
> [/引用]
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 美光3600XMP 16G*2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/劇透]
> 作為參考，這是與美光 4400 相同的 IC，甚至更好
> 美光3600XMP 16G*2 我在AMD平台上可以輕鬆16G*2風冷5800MHZ+，關鍵是價格幾乎是4400 16G*2的1/3


----------



## cstkl1

Ketku- said:


> Where that can download? Mine board is Z690 Apex.


its in ure thumbdrive. lol


----------



## bhav

5800????

On micron B die D4???

Crap, I'm still blocked by eta on case 

MSI Z790 MAG D4 on monday, but the case no one knows when.

4800D4CL21 > 4800D5CL36 in games. Now if I can crank this thing up to 5800 lower CL, what is a DDR5?


----------



## newls1

bhav said:


> This is a pain on my current D4 kit as it doesn't boot at XMP Profile 19-19-19, only at 19-20-20.
> 
> But I didn't RMA it why? Earlier Crucial used to bin this ram into 4800 and 5100 XMPs, except hardly anyone could run those speeds because of IMC and mobo limitations (lol @ over £1000 for 5100CLwhatever).
> 
> So they simply repackaged these as 4400 19-19-19 kits, so my kit was one that had been tested at 4800 or 5100 XMP but resold as 4400.
> 
> I got a 4800 stable kit, so far, might do 5100+ on new mobo.
> 
> I know this is DDR5 thread, but this info is useful when shopping for ram, if it ever happens again.


why was i quoted on this?? your reply had zero to do with mine


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> supercool direct touch ram block da only one u need.
> anything else a cheap bykski would do


Good luck finding it in stock. They haven't had any stock in well over a month, and the Bartxstore blocks have also been out of stock (now showing backorder) for months.

I gave up and ordered the IceManCooler off Aliexpress. Shipping has taken forever but it looks like it'll be here Oct 25 now..

My current test right now is getting primary timings down @ 7000 on the mem. I'm at 32-40-40-34 right now - took a lot of voltage to go from 34-44-44 to 32-40-40. Using a custom training profile I built myself that seems to have helped. I'm curious if you've found any specific training options that made a big difference for you, @cstkl1 ?

Z690 Unify-X A81U4
13900K @ stock
Kingston 6400CL32 M-Die ; stock heatsinks, no dedicated fan .. just my top rad blowing as intake above them..


----------



## yt93900

How is the IMC VDD setting supposed to work on ASUS ROG boards? If i set it to 1.3V, I get 1.5V in HWInfo64, either way it doesn't correspond to what's set in BIOS.


----------



## sulalin

yt93900，帖子：29051974，成員：672060 said:


> IMC VDD 設置應該如何在華碩 ROG 主板上工作？如果我將它設置為 1.3V，我會在 HWInfo64 中得到 1.5V，無論哪種方式它都與 BIOS 中的設置不對應。
> [/引用]AUTO is fine


----------



## yt93900

Auto = 1.332V IMC VDD but I'm still getting errors in MTP. Trying to stabilize 7200MHz C34 XMP T-Force Delta's on B660i Strix (latest BIOS).
VDDQ TX 1.40V
VDD/VDDQ 1.41V
VTT 1.072V
SA 1.15V
32 errors at 101% coverage at the moment. Must be doable to get it stable, feels so close  I know the CPU and RAM both are capable, ran fine on a different board.
Normally I don't use these sticks on B660i, this is just for the sake of testing.


----------



## Raphie

Unify-X BIOS 81, 6800Mhz seems still ok


----------



## roooo

Um...just for curiosity: Is there anyone here with 13900K on Asus mobo where setting AVX offset has no effect? I'm on Hero Z690 with 2103 BIOS and no matter how high I set AVX2 offset, I'm seeing the same clock speeds no matter if I'm using non-AVX or heavy AVX loads.

Any ideas?


----------



## Gadfly

yt93900 said:


> Auto = 1.332V IMC VDD but I'm still getting errors in MTP. Trying to stabilize 7200MHz C34 XMP T-Force Delta's on B660i Strix (latest BIOS).
> VDDQ TX 1.40V
> VDD/VDDQ 1.41V
> VTT 1.072V
> SA 1.15V
> 32 errors at 101% coverage at the moment. Must be doable to get it stable, feels so close  I know the CPU and RAM both are capable, ran fine on a different board.
> Normally I don't use these sticks on B660i, this is just for the sake of testing.


This is a~die? 7800 should be pretty easy with decent a-die,

turn up VDD2? 1.32v is really low.; try to turn up Vdd/vddq a bit, maybe 1.435. You should be able to run 7800 c34 at about 1.485-1.50,


----------



## roooo

roooo said:


> Um...just for curiosity: Is there anyone here with 13900K on Asus mobo where setting AVX offset has no effect? I'm on Hero Z690 with 2103 BIOS and no matter how high I set AVX2 offset, I'm seeing the same clock speeds no matter if I'm using non-AVX or heavy AVX loads.
> 
> Any ideas?


Ok...found a post on this elsewhere: AVX offset counts from the highest core ratio (incl. TVB) and has to be larger than the ratio difference between one-core and all-core. Setting offset accordingly solved my problem!


----------



## yt93900

Gadfly said:


> This is a~die? 7800 should be pretty easy with decent a-die,
> 
> turn up VDD2? 1.32v is really low.; try to turn up Vdd/vddq a bit, maybe 1.435. You should be able to run 7800 c34 at about 1.485-1.50,


VDD2 being the IMC? I can't get a grip on it, it acts like it has some baseline + offset instead of listening to a fixed voltage. There is a setting of a baseline voltage for it but it starts at 0.7V, no idea how it's calculated.

I'm getting all kinds of weird things on this setting like - set 1.3V BIOS = HWinfo 1.50-1.52V, set 1.4V, get 1.45V and so on.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Good luck finding it in stock. They haven't had any stock in well over a month, and the Bartxstore blocks have also been out of stock (now showing backorder) for months.
> 
> I gave up and ordered the IceManCooler off Aliexpress. Shipping has taken forever but it looks like it'll be here Oct 25 now..
> 
> My current test right now is getting primary timings down @ 7000 on the mem. I'm at 32-40-40-34 right now - took a lot of voltage to go from 34-44-44 to 32-40-40. Using a custom training profile I built myself that seems to have helped. I'm curious if you've found any specific training options that made a big difference for you, @cstkl1 ?
> 
> Z690 Unify-X A81U4
> 13900K @ stock
> Kingston 6400CL32 M-Die ; stock heatsinks, no dedicated fan .. just my top rad blowing as intake above them..
> 
> View attachment 2577422


none needed. the skews, mrc training etc is really on point. if anything some are tight.
790 apex + adie really the way forward. its just too easy.

cpu theres a ton of controls here with a even more advance control of cache etc

geniuses in asus found the biggest fix around on hynix trfc . this da critical part

for the ram block. one on da way next week. its the old version ppl are using atm. he doing a new one thats screwless

i prefer to post all three hci 1000%, tm5 20 loops, karhu 30k in one screenshot for this gonna need to wc. got another kit coming will decide between them the best and watercool it. sorry for the late result posting as it took some time to get adie.


----------



## Raphie

Anybody doing 6800 30 (or 32)-40-40-28 2T with Gskill 6400 Tridernt Z5? if so, what voltage?
Unify-X only pls, as DK can do a lot that the X doesn't allow


----------



## energie80

Raphie said:


> Anybody doing 6400 30 (or 32)-40-40-28 2T with Gskill 6400 Tridernt Z5? if so, what voltage?
> Unify-X only pls, as DK can do a lot that the X doesn't allow


6800 1.45


----------



## Raphie

My bad, I meant 6800, I'm already doing 6800 @ 32-41-41-28 @ 1.45, but interested in getting 30-41-41-28 or 32-40-40-28 or ideally 30-40-40-28, all under 1.5v


----------



## Raphie

craps out at 1000% Karhu, but think that's heat related and can be fixed


----------



## acoustic

I'm finding that with 13900K, CPU VDDQ .. less is better. At 1.38-1.390v, which was common for my 12700K, I get inconsistent training; sometimes takes 2 cycles before it'll train correctly (but it will eventually, and POST fine).

Set CPU VDDQ to 1.31v, leave rest alone.. and trains perfect first shot. This is at 7200 w/ M-Die..


----------



## Nizzen

Some guy here asked for Dell green hynix m-die on z790. Testing as we speak. This is the same as my z690 apex. Maxed out dell, not even trfc can lower than 340...
So not better on z790. Dimms are the bottleneck.


----------



## acoustic

@Nizzen Thanks for sharing that - I'm currently trying to tighten up 7000 with my M-Die. I think my Unify-X is borked .. it will not POST at 7600 or higher. I tried it again today and it's impossible. I get 4C P-Code during POST, and then it fails training and goes to 55 before recycling.

7400 and lower work fine.


----------



## energie80

Don’t think the unifiy x can go past 7400


----------



## acoustic

energie80 said:


> Don’t think the unifiy x can go past 7400


Definitely can. Others have. Just depends on sticks and board quality


----------



## owikh84

13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2103
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatspreaders
Ambient: 28C

*2x16GB DDR5-7400 34-43-43-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435V | TX VDDQ 1.40V | SA 1.15V | MC 1.40V







*


----------



## cstkl1

owikh84 said:


> 13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - P55/E43/R45
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2103
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatspreaders
> Ambient: 28C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7400 34-43-43-30-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.435V | TX VDDQ 1.40V | SA 1.15V | MC 1.40V
> View attachment 2577618
> *


easy right.


----------



## owikh84

cstkl1 said:


> easy right.


Yupe, thanks man for the profile.


----------



## nickolp1974

Nizzen said:


> Some guy here asked for Dell green hynix m-die on z790. Testing as we speak. This is the same as my z690 apex. Maxed out dell, not even trfc can lower than 340...
> So not better on z790. Dimms are the bottleneck.
> View attachment 2577489
> 
> View attachment 2577491


Thanks @Nizzen for testing. About the same as i got, well i didn't play with volts much and managed 7000c34 but it wasn't stable, 7200 would not post. I am on 4 dimm Hero. I'll have another go today, it maybe time to retire the Dell greens


----------



## cstkl1

owikh84 said:


> Yupe, thanks man for the profile.


go 7600. if can boot means can do it bro.


----------



## affxct

Apparently he just dropped his 13700K in and loaded his i9’s profile, and all his settings worked. He tested with 5.3P/4.9R (Es disabled) and 7600C34. I don’t understand how he could use the same voltage settings on both chips for 7600C34 (maybe it’s auto) and I feel like he gimped the i7 because disabling Es on RPL doesn’t make sense and the clocks are way too conservative for what this chip could’ve easily clocked to.


----------



## Bexak

affxct said:


> Apparently he just dropped his 13700K in and loaded his i9’s profile, and all his settings worked. He tested with 5.3P/4.9R (Es disabled) and 7600C34. I don’t understand how he could use the same voltage settings on both chips for 7600C34 (maybe it’s auto) and I feel like he gimped the i7 because disabling Es on RPL doesn’t make sense and the clocks are way too conservative for what this chip could’ve easily clocked to.


I think he has a mild ******ation, as like you say he disables 16 E cores on the 13900k in all testing. Of course there won't be much difference when doing so.


----------



## nickolp1974

getting there slowly now, was struggling before but after comparing @Nizzen volts i realised my IVR TX VDDQ was auto'ing to 1.6v bought this down and it worked a treat. Core was just set to 55 e 45 and cache 50, everything else auto hence high temps.


----------



## affxct

Bexak said:


> I think he has a mild ******ation, as like you say he disables 16 E cores on the 13900k in all testing. Of course there won't be much difference when doing so.


He hasn’t done a formal i9 review yet, just his leaked consult thingy that we all watched pre-release last week. This was his i7 one. There was an argument for disabling Es on ADL: small die size - horrific heat dissipation, and shared L3 with a lack of L2 on the Es, not to mention gimping ring clock by up to 800MHz in some cases.

With RPL Intel changed the way the cores access cache and the Es no longer affect ring clock. In my testing my 12900K on average did slightly better with Es enabled, but I can at least see the logic behind 12900K @ 51P/49R vs 51P/40E/42R. With RPL we can do 56P/45E/49-50R and the cache system changed entirely so there’s generally no merit in disabling them (W10 scheduler sometimes doesn’t handle them well).

I can sort-of understand why he believes what he believes, but I think he’s beginning to have some serious blunders with his testing. It’s odd because on one hand he has this apathetic persona where he calls all of us nerds and considers himself a gigachad who only cares about significant gaming FPS improvements.

On the other hand he gets touched whenever you criticise his testing, his tuning or claim that you were able to disprove his findings. Sometimes I don’t understand. Either he doesn’t care or he does care, you can’t just decide which persona to be when it fits your argument. But yeah something is seriously amiss with his testing, it can’t be a coincidence that so many mainstream and non-mainstream channels exhibit so much discrepancy compared to his numbers.

For this reason my entire 12900K vs 13700K head-to-head will be done on camera to show the procedure. It absolutely needs to be considered because it seems like some of the numbers online make no sense at all. By this point no one’s testing in the tech space is verifiable or peer-reviewed, so to speak.


----------



## Zero989

Bexak said:


> I think he has a mild ******ation, as like you say he disables 16 E cores on the 13900k in all testing. Of course there won't be much difference when doing so.


What games benefit from E cores? 0. Maybe AoTS.




affxct said:


> He hasn’t done a formal i9 review yet, just his leaked consult thingy that we all watched pre-release last week. This was his i7 one. There was an argument for disabling Es on ADL: small die size - horrific heat dissipation, and shared L3 with a lack of L2 on the Es, not to mention gimping ring clock by up to 800MHz in some cases.
> 
> With RPL Intel changed the way the cores access cache and the Es no longer affect ring clock. In my testing my 12900K on average did slightly better with Es enabled, but I can at least see the logic behind 12900K @ 51P/49R vs 51P/40E/42R. With RPL we can do 56P/45E/49-50R and the cache system changed entirely so there’s generally no merit in disabling them (W10 scheduler sometimes doesn’t handle them well).
> 
> I can sort-of understand why he believes what he believes, but I think he’s beginning to have some serious blunders with his testing. It’s odd because on one hand he has this apathetic persona where he calls all of us nerds and considers himself a gigachad who only cares about significant gaming FPS improvements.
> 
> On the other hand he gets touched whenever you criticise his testing, his tuning or claim that you were able to disprove his findings. Sometimes I don’t understand. Either he doesn’t care or he does care, you can’t just decide which persona to be when it fits your argument. But yeah something is seriously amiss with his testing, it can’t be a coincidence that so many mainstream and non-mainstream channels exhibit so much discrepancy compared to his numbers.
> 
> For this reason my entire 12900K vs 13700K head-to-head will be done on camera to show the procedure. It absolutely needs to be considered because it seems like some of the numbers online make no sense at all. By this point no one’s testing in the tech space is verifiable or peer-reviewed, so to speak.


Why care about the E cores at all? What does it matter if they are on or off? If anything, not overclocking the 13700K to higher Ghz was the only unfair/odd parameter, but in his prior testing ADL wasn't scaling beyond 5.3Ghz anyway.


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> What games benefit from E cores? 0. Maybe AoTS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why care about the E cores at all? What does it matter if they are on or off? If anything, not overclocking the 13700K to higher Ghz was the only unfair/odd parameter, but in his prior testing ADL wasn't scaling beyond 5.3Ghz anyway.


They do help in gaming, ever so slightly, on ADL. I did the testing to see for myself. I was surprised but the results were as plain as day. With RPL being that the architecture now isn’t hampered by their existence, they likely are better utilised, and HUB numbers seem to exhibit this well. Say what you want about HUB, but their testing parameters are enough to draw inference. Perhaps not the raw numbers, but relativity is still there i.e., if Steve’s 13900K does better with the Es enabled vs disabled (he covered both), then surely there’s something going on there. Also, the 13900K vs 12900K gap was appreciably larger with Es enabled compared to when both were 8 cores. But alas, will look at this myself in a few days.


----------



## Zero989

affxct said:


> They do help in gaming, ever so slightly, on ADL. I did the testing to see for myself. I was surprised but the results were as plain as day. With RPL being that the architecture now isn’t hampered by their existence, they likely are better utilised, and HUB numbers seem to exhibit this well. Say what you want about HUB, but their testing parameters are enough to draw inference. Perhaps not the raw numbers, but relativity is still there i.e., if Steve’s 13900K does better with the Es enabled vs disabled (he covered both), then surely there’s something going on there. Also, the 13900K vs 12900K gap was appreciably larger with Es enabled compared to when both were 8 cores. But alas, will look at this myself in a few days.


Interesting. I don't have an issue with HUB though. Checking his 13900K "This is fine" video I see no testing of E cores on/off. I'll do some testing and get back. Of course as with everything, I expect if E cores help, it's only in specific games. Same as with only some games benefitting from HT off.


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> Interesting. I don't have an issue with HUB though. Checking his 13900K "This is fine" video I see no testing of E cores on/off. I'll do some testing and get back. Of course as with everything, I expect if E cores help, it's only in specific games. Same as with only some games benefitting from HT off.


There’s a segment where he does an ‘IPC comparison.’ Basically he turns the Es off and makes it a head-to-head. I can’t recall which review (I think it was the main review), but it comes towards the end and I wasn’t expecting it either). One can essentially directly compare those to numbers from earlier in the video.


----------



## Zero989

affxct said:


> There’s a segment where he does an ‘IPC comparison.’ Basically he turns the Es off and makes it a head-to-head. I can’t recall which review (I think it was the main review), but it comes towards the end and I wasn’t expecting it either). One can essentially directly compare those to numbers from earlier in the video.


I don't see it. 




No cmoparison with E on or off


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> I don't see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No cmoparison with E on or off


22:30. My video loaded directly onto it XD.


----------



## Zero989

affxct said:


> 22:30. My video loaded directly onto it XD.


That's because I linked it to start there. He never tests E cores on vs.off. He even says that for gaming, he kept it disabled and that for productivity he would test with it on.


----------



## Raphie

Still want to validate 32-40-40 as well, but craps out at 8xx% in Karhu, no matter voltage
30-40-40 doesn't boot full stop, even with OC retry on remote.


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> That's because I linked it to start there. He never tests E cores on vs.off. He even says that for gaming, he kept it disabled and that for productivity he would test with it on.


What do you mean? He disabled the E-cores and compared the 12900K to the 13900K. Unless I’m missing something. You could pretty much write down his numbers, rewind, and compare them to his original numbers. I’m not really understanding the issue. Did he not disable the E-cores? It says E-cores disabled? I’m super lost.

Assuming Steve isn’t an idiot, his testing parameters didn’t change. Sure he omitted 1440p and 4K but who gives a crap? 1080p E-cores disabled in his testing is totally workable. You just compare the gap in terms of % between the two and compare that to his previously observed gap with the original testing. I genuinely don’t see the issue.

But with all that being said, go test it yourself. It’s super easy. Just max OC your chip with them enabled and disabled. My results were 51/40/42 vs 51/49, and then do your own gaming benchmarks. I can give you my numbers but you probably will tell me I’m lying (which is fair given the state of the industry these days). I’m not a legit YTer but I will be doing a 100% transparent comparison with my phone setup on a tripod behind me as well next week because I too am tired of all this back and forth.


----------



## Raphie

I don't think it makes sense, when disabling ecores there is no reason to upgrade. The upgrade is in MC performance incl E-Cores, the whole package. 
single P-core the difference is marginal.


----------



## Zero989

affxct said:


> What do you mean? He disabled the E-cores and compared the 12900K to the 13900K. Unless I’m missing something. You could pretty much write down his numbers, rewind, and compare them to his original numbers. I’m not really understanding the issue. Did he not disable the E-cores? It says E-cores disabled? I’m super lost.


You were saying it was better to have them enabled. Where is that with the 13900K? Where is the proof? Why would I compare 5Ghz with E cores disabled with original 5.3Ghz numbers?? I'm so lost here. Just looking for simple proof of E cores on showing improvements.

I managed to find this:






SC2 makes no sense since its 1T dependent. Anyway, in his video, it's 1% slower on avg for 12900K. I'm on Windows 11 22H2 now so I even expect differences from older builds.


----------



## affxct

Raphie said:


> I don't think it makes sense, when disabling ecores there is no reason to upgrade. The upgrade is in MC performance incl E-Cores, the whole package.
> single P-core the difference is marginal.


I somehow don’t believe that to be the case. But don’t take my word for it. I’m curious as to what I’ll find next week.


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> You were saying it was better to have them enabled. Where is that with the 13900K? Where is the proof? Why would I compare 5Ghz with E cores disabled with original 5.3Ghz numbers?? I'm so lost here. Just looking for simple proof of E cores on showing improvements.
> 
> I managed to find this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SC2 makes no sense since its 1T dependent. Anyway, in his video, it's 1% slower on avg for 12900K. I'm on Windows 11 22H2 now so I even expect differences from older builds.


1. In Steve’s 13900K review, that section of the video observes an almost negligible difference between the two. Earlier in the video the gap is huge, and the stock all-core of the 13900K is not that high (he didn’t do any tweaking).

2. 



 - non mainstream dude who doesn’t receive review samples and never misses with his content.

3. Raptor Lake benefits from E-cores way more than ADL did dude to the architectural changes, but ADL still wins with E-cores enabled on average and I’d be happy to make a YT video for you (dead serious). And I’m not talking an Elgato capture with a cut comm, I’m talking like I’ll walk around with my phone in my hand and you won’t be able to call BS when the E-cores start pulling out 5 FPS victories where they’re meant to be losing by 10%.

Edit: I have no skin in the game and I too am tired of weird review numbers. It by this point doesn’t seem like you can really trust anyone fully which is why I’m going to be doing my head to head the way I plan to next week. I’m curious what will happen and you know what? Maybe the 13700KF won’t win. I’m not paying a significant amount to upgrade to it so if it matches the 12900K then it’s whatever, but somehow I don’t foresee that happening.


----------



## Zero989

affxct said:


> 1. In Steve’s 13900K review, that section of the video observes an almost negligible difference between the two. Earlier in the video the gap is huge, and the stock all-core of the 13900K is not that high (he didn’t do any tweaking).
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 
> - non mainstream dude who doesn’t receive review samples and never misses with his content.
> 
> 3. Raptor Lake benefits from E-cores way more than ADL did dude to the architectural changes, but ADL still wins with E-cores enabled on average and I’d be happy to make a YT video for you (dead serious). And I’m not talking an Elgato capture with a cut comm, I’m talking like I’ll walk around with my phone in my hand and you won’t be able to call BS when the E-cores start pulling out 5 FPS victories where they’re meant to be losing by 10%.
> 
> Edit: I have no skin in the game and I too am tired of weird review numbers. It by this point doesn’t seem like you can really trust anyone fully which is why I’m going to be doing my head to head the way I plan to next week. I’m curious what will happen and you know what? Maybe the 13700KF won’t win. I’m not paying a significant amount to upgrade to it so if it matches the 12900K then it’s whatever, but somehow I don’t foresee that happening.


I just linked Steve's testing, and it shows benefits in CS GO which to be is baffling, but in other games it results in mostly perf losses (12900K). I guess I'll just leave them on and mess with thread affinity when it matters.


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> I just linked Steve's testing, and it shows benefits in CS GO which to be is baffling, but in other games it results in mostly perf losses (12900K). I guess I'll just leave them on and mess with thread affinity when it matters.


Again, test it yourself XD. I’m all about transparency and accuracy. Maybe you’re right. Feel free to max out your two configs and maybe E-cores will end up slowing it down? Who knows.


----------



## jeiselramos

Raphie said:


> My bad, I meant 6800, I'm already doing 6800 @ 32-41-41-28 @ 1.45, but interested in getting 30-41-41-28 or 32-40-40-28 or ideally 30-40-40-28, all under 1.5v


6800 30-39-39-28 1.52 teamgroup 6400


----------



## ChaosAD

jeiselramos said:


> 6800 30-39-39-28 1.52 teamgroup 6400


Except primaries, all other on auto?


----------



## Carillo

When able to run full ring with EC enabled , it’s a no-brainer for me. When gaming e-cores can handle background applications like battlenet, discord and so on 😊 p-cores then only have one job, FPS 💪


----------



## jeiselramos

ChaosAD said:


> Except primaries, all other on auto?


1.3 CPU VDDQ
1.3 CPU VDD2
1.0 SA
1.52 VDD 1.47 VDDQ


----------



## ChaosAD

jeiselramos said:


> 1.3 CPU VDDQ
> 1.3 CPU VDD2
> 1.0 SA
> 1.52 VDD 1.47 VDDQ


That's very good, I can do the same but at 6666 1.5 vdd 1.45 vddq


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Apparently he just dropped his 13700K in and loaded his i9’s profile, and all his settings worked. He tested with 5.3P/4.9R (Es disabled) and 7600C34. I don’t understand how he could use the same voltage settings on both chips for 7600C34 (maybe it’s auto) and I feel like he gimped the i7 because disabling Es on RPL doesn’t make sense and the clocks are way too conservative for what this chip could’ve easily clocked to.


That's the moron I wish would disappear. Guy is stupid as can be


----------



## Carillo

acoustic said:


> That's the moron I wish would disappear. Guy is stupid as can be


A medical diagnosis would tell that he has a narcissistic personality disorder. That he has 15,000 followers is incomprehensible to me. He describes XOC people (Those who get better results than him) as idiots, and on the other hand all those who do NOT achieve the same as him as useless. The whole world revolves around his egotistical mind, and he himself thinks he is the best of everything. Distasteful guy


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> That's the moron I wish would disappear. Guy is stupid as can be


I really like Graphically Challenged. GC is basically the dude I wish I could be. He’s bridging the gap between enthusiasts/OCers and the mainstream. He’s able to comm with mainstream tech channels, speak to industry insiders, and he can also OC properly and understands it. He’s honestly a freakin’ stud, not to ride him too hard.

Frame Chasers presents his data well, his videos are high-production stuff (his graphs are oddly pixelated though), and sometimes his numbers are helpful, but with weird discrepancies. If Jufes dropped his greater than thou egotistical attitude and stopped being a d*ckhead, his channel would actually be somewhat great.

Frame Chasers is so oddly certain of himself that it makes you want to believe him, but he also presents data that can be so utterly puzzling - then he refuses to show testing parameters or exact settings/procedures and expects you to believe him when he says his 13700K runs the exact IMC settings for D5 as his 12900K when legit everyone on OCN says you need to adjust down for certain.

It’s just weird. If he weren’t so arrogant and into his money bag, he would be able to present amazing content but I just don’t think he cares that much about the raw data to be dead honest. It seems he truly is just in this for the money and the views and I guess who can fault him. Dude’s living the dream making a killing off of testing hardware almost for free.


----------



## z390e

Framechasers had a video where they were comparing things and then I looked and they had the GPU and CPU both clocked differently for the two tests, and two different resolutions . You could even see it in the OSD.

That was it for me.

I have yet to see a similar type of mistake or outright falsehood from GN or Skatterbencher (hopefully he does more content, sounds like his life is pulling him a bit away from YT)


----------



## Ketku-

Guys, may ask. What kind of results you get with these Rams daily stable? I am starting oc them with apex.

F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK / SK-Hynix ofcourse.


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> Framechasers had a video where they were comparing things and then I looked and they had the GPU and CPU both clocked differently for the two tests, and two different resolutions . You could even see it in the OSD.
> 
> That was it for me.
> 
> I have yet to see a similar type of mistake or outright falsehood from GN or Skatterbencher (hopefully he does more content, sounds like his life is pulling him a bit away from YT)


No way what, do you recall which?


----------



## affxct

Ketku- said:


> Guys, may ask. What kind of results you get with these Rams daily stable? I am starting oc them with apex.
> 
> F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK / SK-Hynix ofcourse.


Broad stroke, you should be able to do 7000 without issues provided your Apex is up to it. IMC is a factor too, but mainly after 7000.


----------



## Ketku-

affxct said:


> Broad stroke, you should be able to do 7000 without issues provided your Apex is up to it. IMC is a factor too, but mainly after 7000.


How high voltages and what head timings?


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> No way what, do you recall which?


no, because I remember the day I saw it, I started to do a post critiquing it and pointing out how flawed it was and then I was like you know what who gives an F all I will wind up doing is arguing with his Stan's.

I do recall it was in the DDR5 video where he implied DDR5 was not better. I think it was showing on the OSD 1440p for one of the benches while the other was at 4K. Its in one of his videos, I am positive.


----------



## affxct

Ketku- said:


> How high voltages and what head timings?


1.55 for 7000C30 even depending on bin quality. Maybe 7000C32 @ 1.5?


----------



## Carillo

Ketku- said:


> Guys, may ask. What kind of results you get with these Rams daily stable? I am starting oc them with apex.
> 
> F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK / SK-Hynix ofcourse.


Those sticks comes both as A-die and M-die. So that's the first thing you need to find out.


----------



## Ketku-

Carillo said:


> Those sticks comes both as A-die and M-die. So that's the first thing you need to find out.


Where i can find out that? Any tips?


----------



## Gnumlab

With an SP score of 103 for the 13900k and a 6600MHz CL34 memory kit (F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK), what should I be able to realistically achieve? First time trying to overclock ram and because of the lack of 7000+MHz kits currently, I'm interested in trying to push these sticks to that range. Going by what I've seen in this thread, should I download mem tweak II instead of trying to do the timings in the Asus Bios screen?


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> Where i can find out that? Any tips?


Hwinfo shows die https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/adie_spd_hwi_comb.png


----------



## Ky0sHiR0

Hi all,
I'm sorry that I'm posting that question here but Im checking this topic for over two weeks already.
May I ask what DDR5 16x2 set You suggest with good perf/value indicator?
I was thinking about Kingston 5600 CL40 or 6000CL40 as they suppose to be based on SK Hynix A Die (?)
13600KF + Z690 Aorus Master.
Thanks for all advices


----------



## bscool

Gnumlab said:


> With an SP score of 103 for the 13900k and a 6600MHz CL34 memory kit (F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK), what should I be able to realistically achieve? First time trying to overclock ram and because of the lack of 7000+MHz kits currently, I'm interested in trying to push these sticks to that range. Going by what I've seen in this thread, should I download mem tweak II instead of trying to do the timings in the Asus Bios screen?


My guess 6800 to 7000.

I see a guy on German MB with A die booted 7600 with your MB and A die so the board can boot good clocks.


----------



## bscool

Ky0sHiR0 said:


> Hi all,
> I'm sorry that I'm posting that question here but Im checking this topic for over two weeks already.
> May I ask what DDR5 16x2 set You suggest with good perf/value indicator?
> I was thinking about Kingston 5600 CL40 or 6000CL40 as they suppose to be based on SK Hynix A Die (?)
> Thanks for all advices


Those are M die, I have the Kingston 60000c40 and can run them at 7000c30 on z690 2022 Apex with 12900k. I think they are a good value.

They will OC very close comes down to lotto on m or a die.


----------



## Ky0sHiR0

bscool said:


> Those are M die, I have the Kingston 60000c40 and can run them at 7000c30 on z690 2022 Apex with 12900k. I think they are a good value.
> 
> They will OC very close comes down to lotto on m or a die.


Thanks for really fast reply. Now I'm thinking if 5600 CL40 is good idea - it should be m die as well and You can save some bucks here.
Btw. is there any pointgoing for just 1x32GB with DDR5?


----------



## bscool

Ky0sHiR0 said:


> Thanks for really fast reply. Now I'm thinking if 5600 CL40 is good idea - it should be m die as well and You can save some bucks here.
> Btw. is there any pointgoing for just 1x32GB with DDR5?


You want 2 dims. I myself would spend the little more for 6000 kit but up to you.

5600 kit might OC the same but I always wonder what if. That is how I end up with dozen of kits 🙃


----------



## Ky0sHiR0

bscool said:


> You want 2 dims. I myself would spend the little more for 6000 kit but up to you.
> 
> 5600 kit might OC the same but I always wonder what if. That is how I end up with dozen of kits 🙃


Understood  do we have anything else on the market with good perf/value or it's all on Kingston these days?
Just for confirmation - https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF560C40BBK2-32.pdf


----------



## bscool

Ky0sHiR0 said:


> Understood  do we have anything else on the market with good perf/value or it's all on Kingston these days?
> Just for confirmation - https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF560C40BBK2-32.pdf


Depends on your location. But in the US the Kingston are some of the lowest priced m die. Directly from the Kingston site is usually cheapest not sure though for your location.

6400 also good Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology

6000 Kingston FURY Beast DDR5 XMP Desktop Memory - Kingston Shop – Kingston Technology


----------



## Ky0sHiR0

bscool said:


> Depends on your location. But in the US the Kingston are some of the lowest priced m die. Directly from the Kingston site is usually cheapest not sure though for your location.
> 
> 6400 also good Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory – Speeds up to 6400 MT/s – Shop at Kingston – Kingston Technology
> 
> 6000 Kingston FURY Beast DDR5 XMP Desktop Memory - Kingston Shop – Kingston Technology


Any chance tha You can link them from another page? It seems that Kingston UK is blocking access from outisde UK


----------



## bscool

Ky0sHiR0 said:


> Any chance tha You can link them from another page? It seems that Kingston UK is blocking access from outisde UK


Maybe they only sell to the US, I think I saw someone post that.

These are the kits but for me in US they are much cheaper from the Kingston site. Maybe Amazon has them cheaper for you?



https://www.overclockers.co.uk/kingston-fury-beast-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-48000c40-6000mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-29j-ks.html





https://www.overclockers.co.uk/kingston-fury-renegade-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-51200c32-6400mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-29n-ks.html


----------



## Ky0sHiR0

bscool said:


> Maybe they only sell to the US, I think I saw someone post that.
> 
> These are the kits but for me in US they are much cheaper from the Kingston site. Maybe Amazon has them cheaper for you?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.overclockers.co.uk/kingston-fury-beast-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-48000c40-6000mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-29j-ks.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.overclockers.co.uk/kingston-fury-renegade-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-pc5-51200c32-6400mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-29n-ks.html


How much they cost from the Kingston site if I may ask? Here I can ge them for around 248 USD


----------



## bscool

Ky0sHiR0 said:


> How much they cost from the Kingston site if I may ask? Here I can ge them for around 248 USD


6400 kit is $230

The 6000 when on sale is around $200 but for some reason now it is showing $350. I suppose that way when they put it back to $200 in a day or two people think they got a deal.

Gskill 6400c32 kit is good too if you can get it for same price or less. In the US that kit has been fairly reasonable also lately.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

bscool said:


> Hwinfo shows die https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/adie_spd_hwi_comb.png


Cant seem to download Beta version. Care to upload a link please ?


----------



## Gnumlab

bscool said:


> My guess 6800 to 7000.
> 
> I see a guy on German MB with A die booted 7600 with your MB and A die so the board can boot good clocks.


Thanks, I went ahead and tried 7000 using the guide below (noticed a comment for the article mentioned that 1:1 [Gear 1] should not be used but Gear 2, which I recall is 1:2, right?). I didn't mess with the timings and adjusted the voltages (I went with 1.35 for both voltages by default and the computer booted; using the Karhu Ram Test, no immediate errors popped up, but I was going to test overnight to see if this was good to go).









How to overclock DDR5 RAM


Want to get the most out of your DDR5 memory but don't know how? We'll show you how to overclock your DDR5 RAM in several easy steps.




www.wepc.com


----------



## bscool

Streamroller said:


> Cant seem to download Beta version. Care to upload a link please ?


Try this i uploaded it to my onedrive.









aida64extreme_build_6142_zkb5mryh4t.zip


Compressed (zipped) Folder



1drv.ms


----------



## opt33

13900kf with Vcolor kit (7200) at 7400c34 (my 12900k imc would not train 7400). 
cpu vdd2 1.46 (1.43 errors). for 7200 need 1.43.
cpu vddq 1.39 
cpu sa doesnt matter, but 1.2 here.
vdd/vddq 1.47 random guess and still need to tighten settings.

temps already 57C, need the better binned 7600kit for lower voltage and better temps and hopefully team group has better heatsinks. need water beyond that.


----------



## bscool

opt33 said:


> 13900kf with Vcolor kit (7200) at 7400c34 (my 12900k imc would not train 7400).
> cpu vdd2 1.46 (1.43 errors). for 7200 need 1.43.
> cpu vddq 1.39
> cpu sa doesnt matter, but 1.2 here.
> vdd/vddq 1.47 random guess and still need to tighten settings.
> 
> temps already 57C, need the better binned 7600kit for lower voltage and better temps and hopefully team group has better heatsinks. need water beyond that.
> 
> View attachment 2577764


So there is hope for my v color 🤣

On 2022 Apex it can boot/bench 7400, 7600, 7800.

It doesn't like lower clocks, booting 7200 and lower doesn't work well. I am hoping 13th gen CPU let me get it fully stable. Thanks for posting.


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> So there is hope for my v color 🤣
> 
> On 2022 Apex it can boot/bench 7400, 7600, 7800.
> 
> It doesn't like lower clocks, booting 7200 and lower doesn't work well. I am hoping 13th gen CPU let me get it fully stable. Thanks for posting.


yeah so far the 13900 is a much better experience with vcolor. Only thing I accomplished with my 12900k and vcolor was a corrupted OS.


----------



## bscool

opt33 said:


> yeah so far the 13900 is a much better experience with vcolor. Only thing I accomplished with my 12900k and vcolor was a corrupted OS.


Same I have done a lot of ddr4 nd ddr5 mem oc and v color only ones I corrupted OS so bad I had to reinstall 🤣


----------



## cstkl1

Gnumlab said:


> With an SP score of 103 for the 13900k and a 6600MHz CL34 memory kit (F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RK), what should I be able to realistically achieve? First time trying to overclock ram and because of the lack of 7000+MHz kits currently, I'm interested in trying to push these sticks to that range. Going by what I've seen in this thread, should I download mem tweak II instead of trying to do the timings in the Asus Bios screen?


if ures are 820A

7400-8000c36 possible @1.4v


----------



## SoldierRBT

Low voltage profile 7400C34 1.35v VDD 1.25v VDDQ Max temp: 34C


----------



## owikh84

Same timings, but my unlocked Hynix A-die green PCB sticks require a voltage bump on the VPP = 1.85V.

13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2103
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Iceman Cooler heatspreaders
Ambient: 28C

*2x16GB DDR5-7400 34-43-43-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435V | TX VDDQ 1.40V | SA 1.15V | MC 1.40V







*


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> Hwinfo shows die https://www.igorslab.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/adie_spd_hwi_comb.png


Where there read A-Die? Cant see or cant understand how it read.


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> Where there read A-Die? Cant see or cant understand how it read.


Dram stepping in pic the N/A


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> Dram stepping in pic the N/A


Thank you mate.


----------



## hrtz47

Is anyone here have experience with low-budget Z790?

I just got a cheap naked m-die capable of running around 6800MHz for daily and 7000MHz CL30-40 just for GB3 (tested on my friend's Z690 Apex).

Right now, I want move to the DDR5 platform. In my country, the cheap option is Asrock Z790 Pro $240, MSI Z790-P $280, and Asus Prime Z790-P $303.

I have good experience with Asus Z690-P D4 which is really capable board for under $250 and can run 4400MHz CL15 + very tight sub & tertiary timings for daily.

thanks!


----------



## asdkj1740

hrtz47 said:


> Is anyone here have experience with low-budget Z790?
> 
> I just got a cheap naked m-die capable of running around 6800MHz for daily and 7000MHz CL30-40 just for GB3 (tested on my friend's Z690 Apex).
> 
> Right now, I want move to the DDR5 platform. In my country, the cheap option is Asrock Z790 Pro $240, MSI Z790-P $280, and Asus Prime Z790-P $303.
> 
> I have good experience with Asus Z690-P D4 which is really capable board for under $250 and can run 4400MHz CL15 + very tight sub & tertiary timings for daily.
> 
> thanks!


gigabyte aorus elite ax 269, aero g 299


----------



## bhav

hrtz47 said:


> Is anyone here have experience with low-budget Z790?
> 
> I just got a cheap naked m-die capable of running around 6800MHz for daily and 7000MHz CL30-40 just for GB3 (tested on my friend's Z690 Apex).
> 
> Right now, I want move to the DDR5 platform. In my country, the cheap option is Asrock Z790 Pro $240, MSI Z790-P $280, and Asus Prime Z790-P $303.
> 
> I have good experience with Asus Z690-P D4 which is really capable board for under $250 and can run 4400MHz CL15 + very tight sub & tertiary timings for daily.
> 
> thanks!


Asrock only has support for 125w CPU, very weak VRM, half of it not cooled.

It is also the weakest for memory overclocking.

If you want a cheap one, get an Asus Prime instead, or even better look for a decent Z690 on discount.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

bscool said:


> So there is hope for my v color 🤣
> 
> On 2022 Apex it can boot/bench 7400, 7600, 7800.
> 
> It doesn't like lower clocks, booting 7200 and lower doesn't work well. I am hoping 13th gen CPU let me get it fully stable. Thanks for posting.





> I am hoping 13th gen CPU let me get it fully stable


We tested IMC of 13700KF and 12700K

I can do 1.44-6800 meanwhile he need 1.51 for his m die + 12700K

Even ” the worst “ binned 1xx700 series have better IMC then ADL counterpart


----------



## bhav

Theres something I'm curious about for people who have reached the upper 7ks on their ram.

Has anyone tried testing if setting gear 4 allows for a higher OC, just to find out whether the limit is ram or the IMC?

And if it is the IMC, try for testing on how much further the ram OCs just to find out how capable it actually is.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

hrtz47 said:


> Is anyone here have experience with low-budget Z790?
> 
> I just got a cheap naked m-die capable of running around 6800MHz for daily and 7000MHz CL30-40 just for GB3 (tested on my friend's Z690 Apex).
> 
> Right now, I want move to the DDR5 platform. In my country, the cheap option is Asrock Z790 Pro $240, MSI Z790-P $280, and Asus Prime Z790-P $303.
> 
> I have good experience with Asus Z690-P D4 which is really capable board for under $250 and can run 4400MHz CL15 + very tight sub & tertiary timings for daily.
> 
> thanks!


Please dont buy E-Waste. Instead cheapest capable board is this = https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1728881-REG/msi_mpg_z790i_edge_wifi.html
Maybe your country going to have this in stock aswell

-12 Layer PCB
-2 DIMM
-Enough VRM and Cooling


----------



## owikh84

13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2103
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Iceman Cooler heatspreaders
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7600 36-45-45-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.45V | SA 1.15V | MC 1.40V*


----------



## Ketku-

@bscool , So mine Hwinfo in DRAM Stepping - 0.0 and SK Hynix ?
M-Die then or i understand some wrong?


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> @bscool , So mine Hwinfo in DRAM Stepping - 0.0 and SK Hynix ?
> M-Die then or i understand some wrong?


I dont know. I have never seen that. Can you post a screenshot of the whole readout maybe someone else will know?

If it is a 6400c32 kit that should be m die. Or is it a different kit than from your sig?


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> I dont know. I have never seen that. Can you post a screenshot of the whole readout maybe someone else will know?
> 
> If it is a 6400c32 kit that should be m die.


All info there.


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> All info there.
> 
> View attachment 2577920
> View attachment 2577921


Should be m die as far as i know. If not first i ever heard on non m die 6400c32 kit.


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> Should be m die as far as i know. If not first i ever heard on non m die 6400c32 kit.


Will thaiphoon burner show A-die or M-Die? 

But okey, if they are M-Die. How high they can go as normal. Rams are in Water ofcourse.


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> Will thaiphoon burner show A-die or M-Die?
> 
> But okey, if they are M-Die. How high they can go as normal. Rams are in Water ofcourse.


I dont know. Try thiaphoon burner.

One way to find out if they are a die or m is see how high the boot.

M die wont boot 7600 or 7800 more than likely A die will with right settings.

For m die probably only boot 7200 to 7400 as a guess if they go higher takes a really good MB, sticks and IMC.

Also do you have 2021 Apex? If it is 2021 Apex I would test the ChA slot 1. Many are weak. If 2022 should be good. If you have weal chA that will be the limit of your mem OC. Example if you can say only run y cruncher or Karhu at 6400 or lower on chA it is weak. If it does 6800+ good.

You can disable channel B in bios instead of removing stick to test chA if you need.

But anyway if m die a good start would be 6800 to 7000 c32-44-42 and tune up or down from there.

Also new z690/z790 Asus bios has a 7600(just set freq to 6800, 7000 or 7200 to start) profile that is a good start that will load all subtimings and then you can tune from there. Profiles at the top of Extreme Tweaker page

1:22:47


----------



## Agent-A01

cstkl1 said:


> if ures are 820A
> 
> 7400-8000c36 possible @1.4v


Has anyone here bought amazon 6600 and got A-die?


----------



## Bakerman

Agent-A01 said:


> Has anyone here bought amazon 6600 and got A-die?


I got mine yesterday. Unfortunately, it's M


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> I dont know. Try thiaphoon burner.
> 
> One way to find out if they are a die or m is see how high the boot.
> 
> M die wont boot 7600 or 7800 more than likely A die will with right settings.
> 
> For m die probably only boot 7200 to 7400 as a guess if they go higher takes a really good MB, sticks and IMC.
> 
> Also do you have 2021 Apex? If it is 2021 Apex I would test the ChA slot 1. Many are weak. If 2022 should be good. If you have weal chA that will be the limit of your mem OC. Example if you can say only run y cruncher or Karhu at 6400 or lower on chA it is weak. If it does 6800+ good.
> 
> You can disable channel B in bios instead of removing stick to test chA if you need.
> 
> But anyway if m die a good start would be 6800 to 7000 c32-44-42 and tune up or down from there.
> 
> Also new z690/z790 Asus bios has a 7600(just set freq to 6800, 7000 or 7200 to start) profile that is a good start that will load all subtimings and then you can tune from there. Profiles at the top of Extreme Tweaker page
> 
> 1:22:47


6800 Boot: 

1.435 VDD
1.4 VDDQ
0.980 VCCSA
IMC, IVR auto


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> 6800 Boot:
> 
> 1.435 VDD
> 1.4 VDDQ
> 0.980 VCCSA
> IMC, IVR auto
> 
> View attachment 2577925


That is a good sign. If you dont wanna test each slot just see if it can run y cruncher 2.5b and work your way up to 7000 or 7200 if you can. or work your way down if 6800 fails. 






BenchMate







benchmate.org


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> That is a good sign. If you dont wanna test each slot just see if it can run y cruncher 2.5b and work your way up to 7000 or 7200 if you can. or work your way down if 6800 fails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BenchMate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> benchmate.org


CPU Stock or OC? Atm oc..


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> CPU Stock or OC? Atm oc..


I always tune memory with stock CPU, y cruncher can fail from unstable cpu oc.

You can use a memtest but y cruncher is a quick test and then I run memtest like Karhu/Tm5 later.


----------



## rulik006

Ketku- said:


> @bscool , So mine Hwinfo in DRAM Stepping - 0.0 and SK Hynix ?
> M-Die then or i understand some wrong?


Which version of HWinfo you have ?


----------



## pipes

Is this fury renagade 6400c32 (KF564C32RSK2-32) a-die or m-die?


----------



## bscool

pipes said:


> Is this fury renagade 6400c32 (KF564C32RSK2-32) a-die or m-die?


Should be m die


----------



## Ketku-

rulik006 said:


> Which version of HWinfo you have ?


V7.30-4870


----------



## cstkl1

Ketku- said:


> All info there.
> 
> View attachment 2577920
> View attachment 2577921


pic of the sticker on the stick


----------



## KedarWolf

Agent-A01 said:


> Has anyone here bought amazon 6600 and got A-die?


My V-Color 7200MHz is A-Die with an unlocked Richtek PMIC confirmed.


----------



## Ketku-

cstkl1 said:


> pic of the sticker on the stick


Only have this anymore:








Because when i was take stock Heatsinks away with thinner, sticker is gone.


----------



## Ketku-

Was nice video for remove stock Heatsinks. Behold finland Luumi 
Thats why G.Skill small sticker text is gone.


----------



## Raphie

Sub 60sec on air


----------



## Ketku-

cstkl1 said:


> pic of the sticker on the stick


Even thaiphoon burner wont show what die they are...


----------



## SuperMumrik

Ketku- said:


> Only have this anymore:


Unless those sticks are bought within the last week or so, they are most certainly m-dies


----------



## stahlhart

Do I get to hang out with the grown-ups now? Still need to validate stability.

(Yes, I know I'm still a gigahertz behind the rest of you...)


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> Even thaiphoon burner wont show what die they are...


You could have tested them by now and known what they are


----------



## Ketku-

SuperMumrik said:


> Unless those sticks are bought within the last week or so, they are most certainly m-dies


June 2022 are model revision.



bscool said:


> You could have tested them by now and known what they are


Haha true mate.. I am near start cry with this whole COMPUTER. 
I was loving 10900K + CL16 4400, need buy it back


----------



## J_Lab4645

bscool said:


> Dram stepping in pic the N/A



It's actually in the Module Part Number: HMCG78*A*GBUA081N

the A= A Die

For Example I have the Gskill 6400mhz (32-39-39-102) with part number: H5CG48*M*EBD 

the M=M Die


N/A = _not applicable_


----------



## Ketku-

J_Lab4645 said:


> It's actually in the Module Part Number: HMCG78*A*GBUA081N
> 
> the A= A Die
> 
> For Example I have the Gskill 6400mhz (32-39-39-102) with part number: H5CG48*M*EBD
> 
> the M=M Die
> 
> 
> N/A = _not applicable_


Module Part Number: F5-6400J3239G16G

How do you explain this?


----------



## bscool

J_Lab4645 said:


> It's actually in the Module Part Number: HMCG78*A*GBUA081N
> 
> the A= A Die
> 
> For Example I have the Gskill 6400mhz (32-39-39-102) with part number: H5CG48*M*EBD
> 
> the M=M Die
> 
> 
> N/A = _not applicable_


Good to know 🤣

I just saw M die in there when I checked my Corsair 6600 and figured when my v color 7200 show N/A it meant A die


----------



## cstkl1

stahlhart said:


> View attachment 2577954
> 
> 
> Do I get to hang out with the grown-ups now? Still need to validate stability.
> 
> (Yes, I know I'm still a gigahertz behind the rest of you...)


disable E core club?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. whats with everybody doing this on RPL when theres no significant penalty on cache.. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


----------



## J_Lab4645

Ketku- said:


> Module Part Number: F5-6400J3239G16G
> 
> How do you explain this?



Please see this website: Next Gen performance and OC potential - G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB kit test with teardown | Page 4 | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)

(You'll need a browser that translates from German)


----------



## stahlhart

cstkl1 said:


> disable E core club?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. whats with everybody doing this on RPL when theres no significant penalty on cache.. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


I haven't tried disabling E-cores on the 13700K yet -- it didn't get me anywhere with ADL on my board before, in terms of metrics.


----------



## cstkl1

stahlhart said:


> I haven't tried disabling E-cores on the 13700K yet -- it didn't get me anywhere with ADL on my board before, in terms of metrics.


my bad sorry my eyes. 

nice ram oc. 

hmm on anothrt topic i have already completed 6800c32,7200c34,7600c36,7800c38 stable at 1.4v . 

its basically for 7800-8k u can use asus 7600 profile and tweak that. 
8000 .. stable still working on dat for stable


----------



## opt33

bhav said:


> Theres something I'm curious about for people who have reached the upper 7ks on their ram.
> 
> Has anyone tried testing if setting gear 4 allows for a higher OC, just to find out whether the limit is ram or the IMC?
> 
> And if it is the IMC, try for testing on how much further the ram OCs just to find out how capable it actually is.


I tried gear 4 with my 12900k/unifyx and 7200 vcolor. 7200 unstable with gear 2 and gear 4. 7400 failed to train/boot with gear 2 and gear 4. 1 stick of 7200 gear 2 stable and could boot single stick 7400 gear 2. 1 stick 7600 failed to train/boot.

With 13900kf 7200 and 7400 both easy to get stable gear 2, so just imc limitation of 12900k. Not even sure MSI bios works well with gear 4 only tested few boots with it.

With 13900kf, 7600 fails to train/boot gear 2 or 4. 7600 also fails to train/boot with single stick (tried each stick in both channels) and numerous loose settings and voltages.

Have seen other unifyx get 7800, but either my particular unifyx is tapping out at 7600 (I bought it when first available, maybe got an earlier less refined batch, who knows), or less likely both sticks can do 7400 but not 7600, and also unlikely imc given 7400 stable and 7600 cant even boot 1 stick. Once 7600 kits out, ill figure it out.


----------



## z390e

how come your guys AIDA64 stops after first line of tests and mine goes all of them?


----------



## jeiselramos

z390e said:


> how come your guys AIDA64 stops after first line of tests and mine goes all of them?


Doble click where it says memory


----------



## SuperMumrik

z390e said:


> how come your guys AIDA64 stops after first line of tests and mine goes all of them?


Just double click on "memory" on the left side. If you want to re-run just "one" test you'll double click that window


----------



## stahlhart

Wonder when we are going to get an AIDA update so that it reads RL correctly.


----------



## Ketku-

@bscool @J_Lab4645 @cstkl1 

I was get sticks to see. They are M-Die, so what voltages are max safe daily and good mhz?


----------



## z390e

stahlhart said:


> Wonder when we are going to get an AIDA update so that it reads RL correctly.


They knew about the BCLK bug _last_ November, did a release in the summer, and still didn't fix that bug. They seem kind of meh tbh.


----------



## cstkl1

Ketku- said:


> @bscool @J_Lab4645 @cstkl1
> 
> I was get sticks to see. They are M-Die, so what voltages are max safe daily and good mhz?


whatever ure cooling can do 
i ran 1.65, for whole year. sugi ran even higher


----------



## Ketku-

cstkl1 said:


> whatever ure cooling can do
> i ran 1.65, for whole year. sugi ran even higher


They are in water ofc. 33c about max temps are


----------



## DanGleeballs

Raphie said:


> Sub 60sec on air
> 
> View attachment 2577949


My best yet


----------



## pipes

Ketku- said:


> Was nice video for remove stock Heatsinks. Behold finland Luumi
> Thats why G.Skill small sticker text is gone.


better to use the triellina to remove the glue that attacks the heatsink


----------



## z390e

great run @DanGleeballs you are beating my 12900KS on 7200 score with your 12700KF on 6800

A+


----------



## acoustic

My IceManCooler heatsinks and block came in. They feel good.. very heavy.

I'll likely put the heatsinks on tomorrow, test them without the waterblock.. I need a bit of time to drain the loop and take care of the CPU de-lid while I add the new runs for the RAM in.


----------



## stahlhart

z390e said:


> great run @DanGleeballs you are beating my 12900KS on 7200 score with your 12700KF on 6800
> 
> A+


257 watts, too. Don't think I ever pulled that much out of the wall with mine. Wow.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> my bad sorry my eyes.
> 
> nice ram oc.
> 
> hmm on anothrt topic i have already completed 6800c32,7200c34,7600c36,7800c38 stable at 1.4v .
> 
> its basically for 7800-8k u can use asus 7600 profile and tweak that.
> 8000 .. stable still working on dat for stable


Those are on the GSKILL kit we talked about earlier, right?

Trying to get 7400c36, but getting errors in [email protected] in test 5, 10, 11.

Cleared them.. went to a much lower CPU VDDQ.. 1.315v. I am exhausted with memory OC lol


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & T-FORCE DDR5 & 12900KF
超頻
9042MHZ開風冷單通道


----------



## stahlhart

z390e said:


> They knew about the BCLK bug _last_ November, did a release in the summer, and still didn't fix that bug. They seem kind of meh tbh.












The 6142 beta works a little better.


----------



## affxct

Ok guys, the Z690 Dark has officially been resurrected


----------



## DanGleeballs

z390e said:


> great run @DanGleeballs you are beating my 12900KS on 7200 score with your 12700KF on 6800
> 
> A+


Latest A81 for Unify-X has AVX512 option 😉
I'm limited to x49 multi so could go maybe go with a bit of bclk


----------



## tubs2x4

DanGleeballs said:


> Latest A81 for Unify-X has AVX512 option 😉
> I'm limited to x49 multi so could go maybe go with a bit of bclk


good run. so no ecores on what you using for pcore ratio, ring ratio, llc and voltages for pcore and ring?


----------



## Vasoka

Have a TFORCE Delta 6200mhz 32 GB set, XMP is terribly unstable at 1.35 vdd/vddq, stability seems to come at 1.4 on those. I have an Asus board and found there's a "memory controller voltage" (that's cpu vddq I think?) in the advanced ram voltage section, I've bumped this up to 1.4 now because I read that 6200 DDR5 needs around there.

I ran that for over a month at 1.35 at no issues, today got "Page fault in non paged area) BSOD, so I'm pretty sure it's the ram acting up. Should I bump up vdd/vddq to 1.42 for example or try with just the memory controller voltage to 1.4 for now? VCSSA is at 1.25. Thanks.


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> @bscool @J_Lab4645 @cstkl1
> 
> I was get sticks to see. They are M-Die, so what voltages are max safe daily and good mhz?


My guess 6800 to 7000 with 1.5 to 1.65 vdd/vddq. You will need to test and adjust as needed.

Here is a vid were he tunes m die use those timings and voltages as a guide


----------



## z390e

Vasoka said:


> Have a TFORCE Delta 6200mhz 32 GB set
> 
> today got "Page fault in non paged area) BSOD


Does the RAM pass testmem5 usmus? or anta777 extreme or absolut?


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Those are on the GSKILL kit we talked about earlier, right?
> 
> Trying to get 7400c36, but getting errors in [email protected] in test 5, 10, 11.
> 
> Cleared them.. went to a much lower CPU VDDQ.. 1.315v. I am exhausted with memory OC lol


wow. nice i need like 1.4 for 7600c36.
7400 the same cause its 43-43


----------



## z390e

SuperMumrik said:


> Just double click on "memory" on the left side. If you want to re-run just "one" test you'll double click that window


I have AIDA64 extreme and on the left side there is no "Memory" thing to click on.

I have to go to Tools > Cache and Memory Benchmark

This is on version 6.80.6200 just updated.



J_Lab4645 said:


> Please see this website: Next Gen performance and OC potential - G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB kit test with teardown | Page 4 | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)
> 
> (You'll need a browser that translates from German)


You can change the language in the drop down next to search to English.


----------



## cstkl1

z390e said:


> I have AIDA64 extreme and on the left side there is no "Memory" thing to click on.
> 
> I have to go to Tools > Cache and Memory Benchmark
> 
> This is on version 6.80.6200 just updated.
> 
> 
> 
> You can change the language in the drop down next to search to English.


----------



## z390e

ty @cstkl1


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> wow. nice i need like 1.4 for 7600c36.
> 7400 the same cause its 43-43


It was a fluke. Worked for one boot, reboot, and fails to train. Now I can't get it to POST at the same settings that were working in TM5 😂

I think my Unify-X is just broken. It just doesn't make any sense. Still have issues getting 6800 stable.. it's like I'm having the same issues I had with my 12700K. Things boot higher with the 13900K, but there is no stability, and if there is, it will fall off after training once.

I dunno. I don't really want to buy another board on a dead platform. Maybe I can find a used Z690 DARK for cheap, but I doubt it... can't really trust a used APEX unless it's verified 2022..

I don't think anyone is going to get rid of a Z690 APEX or DARK, though. Not much point for the regular user.


----------



## z390e

they re-raised the price on z690 dark back up too


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> Ok guys, the Z690 Dark has officially been resurrected


No not official yet.


----------



## cstkl1

z390e said:


> they re-raised the price on z690 dark back up too


because now they decided to support it again. lol


----------



## acoustic

z390e said:


> they re-raised the price on z690 dark back up too


Yeah. I wish that $500 deal was a thing when I bought this Unify-X


----------



## affxct

yzonker said:


> No not official yet.


Doesn’t matter if it’s still being polished. The results observed speak for themselves. As far as I’m concerned the work is done. They legit just need to upload it once they’re happy with how it’s looking. And honestly it’s commendable. Apparently their BIOS team is a singular person. How they managed it I haven’t a clue.

The fact is GC is busy working on 8000 after not being able to train, and biso biso managed 8533 GB3. This is an unprecedented comeback. This is the equivalent of if ASUS had fixed the Maximus D5 issue in a couple of weeks. I was genuinely about to list my Dark for sale because it would’ve been a brick for 13th-Gen. No clue what they did or how they did it.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> It was a fluke. Worked for one boot, reboot, and fails to train. Now I can't get it to POST at the same settings that were working in TM5 😂
> 
> I think my Unify-X is just broken. It just doesn't make any sense. Still have issues getting 6800 stable.. it's like I'm having the same issues I had with my 12700K. Things boot higher with the 13900K, but there is no stability, and if there is, it will fall off after training once.
> 
> I dunno. I don't really want to buy another board on a dead platform. Maybe I can find a used Z690 DARK for cheap, but I doubt it... can't really trust a used APEX unless it's verified 2022..
> 
> I don't think anyone is going to get rid of a Z690 APEX or DARK, though. Not much point for the regular user.


Nah come now. There has to be a logical explanation. It isn’t the IMC, we’ve now established that. It’s unlikely to be the kit because as long as it’s not faulty it’s basically just dumb RAM chips. I guess it could be your board sample, but perhaps it’s more so the voltages selected. Like maybe there’s something you’re missing in relation to the training. VDD2 can heavily compromise MRC consistency. You could maybe also try raising the PLLs by 60-75mV.

I don’t think your issue is TX because TX usually just either doesn’t train when set too low, or you see errors early. SA too high can be an issue but it generally isn’t a concern as long as it’s within reason. My guess would be that it’s VDD2 and a combination of timings and RAM voltages. Perhaps you need to run a different balance of timings and VDD/VDDQ. You have a Kingston kit, I’ve found that my kit cannot train reliably without a gap of around 90mV between VDD and VDDQ. If I raise my VDDQ I’ll legit lose stability.


----------



## acoustic

Oh yay, it's getting worse. Now, no matter what settings I input, the board hangs at 55 after training and won't POST, unless it's JEDEC after a CMOS clear. Hahaha.. can't make this **** up man. Gonna re-flash BIOS.. 

@affxct been testing an M-Die kit and A-Die kit. Both display the same issues, though the A-Die does POST at a higher speed (7400 vs M-Die 7200). Can't post 7600+ regardless of settings. I spent 8hrs the first day with this 13900K trying to get 7600 to POST. Every combination you can think of. No bueno.

I've spent 4 full days fighting with getting this crap running at acceptable speeds. I was able to run 6600 very tight with my 12700K + M-Die kit.. but above 6600.. nope.

I'm pretty burned out and frustrated at this point. I've had very little to no success, a lot of hours, and not much to show for it. I had a blast with DDR4, but DDR5 has backed the truck up and ran me over a few times 😂


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Oh yay, it's getting worse. Now, no matter what settings I input, the board hangs at 55 after training and won't POST, unless it's JEDEC after a CMOS clear. Hahaha.. can't make this **** up man.


When you clear CMOS and try to test manual settings, what’s SA set to?


----------



## affxct

BIOS 2.02 for EVGA Z690:

Dark 


https://cdn.evga.com/BIOS/Z690/E699_flashtool_202.zip



Classified


https://cdn.evga.com/BIOS/Z690/E698_flashtool_202.zip



Courtesy of: https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3582835&fp=1


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> When you clear CMOS and try to test manual settings, what’s SA set to?


SA on Auto with this board goes to 1.30v. All auto settings for 7400 will do 1.50v CPU VDDQ, 1.40v VDD2 (it will never go higher than 1.40 on auto).

All auto was actually POSTing just fine earlier for 7400. I only need 1.190v SA min for 7400 to POST.. or at least it used to.


----------



## yzonker

affxct said:


> BIOS 2.02 for EVGA Z690:
> 
> Dark
> 
> 
> https://cdn.evga.com/BIOS/Z690/E699_flashtool_202.zip
> 
> 
> 
> Classified
> 
> 
> https://cdn.evga.com/BIOS/Z690/E698_flashtool_202.zip
> 
> 
> 
> Courtesy of: https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3582835&fp=1


LOL. I made that other post and then this popped up almost immediately. Time to flash I guess....


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> SA on Auto with this board goes to 1.30v. All auto settings for 7400 will do 1.50v CPU VDDQ, 1.40v VDD2 (it will never go higher than 1.40 on auto).
> 
> All auto was actually POSTing just fine earlier for 7400. I only need 1.190v SA min for 7400 to POST.. or at least it used to.


Are you trying auto right now and it’s exhibiting weird behaviour all of a sudden?


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Are you trying auto right now and it’s exhibiting weird behaviour all of a sudden?


Tried both. Full auto, all manual, manually entering the auto values..

Re-flashed BIOS and just enabled XMP (660032-40-40) and it posted. Hopefully that unfucks whatever just happened.

Can someone make a ****ing board that isn't a hunk of ****? The **** am I paying $500+ for..


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Tried both. Full auto, all manual, manually entering the auto values..
> 
> Re-flashed BIOS and just enabled XMP (660032-40-40) and it posted. Hopefully that unfucks whatever just happened.


Ooof that is freakin’ weird. I have had semi-similar occurrences on the Dark, but not entirely. My issue was that if I didn’t manually set SA to legit anything other than Auto, I would have a CPU initialisation error. This happened after my first alteration of SA from auto. But have you tried the VDD/VDDQ gap thing? 

One cool thing about the Dark is you can leave DQ auto and it’ll set to whatever; when I initially set VDD to my value and left DQ/VPP auto as Kingpin and Luumi seemed to be doing deduced from the built in OC profiles, I noticed my kit auto’ing DQ to 90-120mV below VDD whereas my Adata kit matched the two. This was repeatable and consistent. After testing I came to find, sure enough, my Kingston kit hates matched DQ.

There’s absolutely no way I can match the two. If I’m not wrong you have a Renegade kit? I genuinely believe you can get this sorted. A-die at 6600 doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I’m sure it’s something that will make sense once it clicks.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Ooof that is freakin’ weird. I have had semi-similar occurrences on the Dark, but not entirely. My issue was that if I didn’t manually set SA to legit anything other than Auto, I would have a CPU initialisation error. This happened after my first alteration of SA from auto. But have you tried the VDD/VDDQ gap thing? The cool thing about the Dark is when I initially set VDD to my value and left DQ/VPP auto as Kingpin and Luumi seemed to be doing deduced from the built in OC profiles, I noticed but kit auto’ing DQ to 90-120mV below VDD whereas my Adata kit matched. After testing I came to find sure enough, my Kingston kit hates matched DQ. Like absolutely no way I can match the two. If I’m not wrong you have a Renegade kit?


I have the Renegade 6400CL32 kit (M-Die), but currently I have the GSKILL 6600GX2 A-Die installed.

The Kingston kit.. I felt very close to getting 7000 stable, but I hit a brick wall that would not get me past errors in Karhu @ ~3000%. It was always around 3000%, and changing any voltages would make it worse, not better. Felt like I had everything dialed in as much as possible. The issue in all these cases is not DIMM temps - I made sure of that with side-panel removed. Typically don't get warmer than low/mid 40s, and I leave tREFI @ ~7000 when testing so that the sticks are less thermally sensitive.

I usually ran the Kingston kit 10mv underneath VDD. If voltage was 1.480 DRAM VDD, I ran 1.470 DRAM VDDQ. For my stable tight OC with the 12700K and Kingston kit @ 6600 32-39-39-30, I was running 1.425v DRAM VDD / 1.390v DRAM VDDQ. I had that kit down to 47ns in Intel MLC with nice tight secondary/tertiary.

The A-Die kit will run 7000 it seems.. I'm testing that now with super loose timings @ 1.40v DRAM VDD/VDDQ (stock voltage).


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I have the Renegade 6400CL32 kit (M-Die), but currently I have the GSKILL 6600GX2 A-Die installed.
> 
> The Kingston kit.. I felt very close to getting 7000 stable, but I hit a brick wall that would not get me past errors in Karhu @ ~3000%. It was always around 3000%, and changing any voltages would make it worse, not better. Felt like I had everything dialed in as much as possible. The issue in all these cases is not DIMM temps - I made sure of that with side-panel removed. Typically don't get warmer than low/mid 40s, and I leave tREFI @ ~7000 when testing so that the sticks are less thermally sensitive.
> 
> I usually ran the Kingston kit 10mv underneath VDD. If voltage was 1.480 DRAM VDD, I ran 1.470 DRAM VDDQ. For my stable tight OC with the 12700K and Kingston kit @ 6600 32-39-39-30, I was running 1.425v DRAM VDD / 1.390v DRAM VDDQ. I had that kit down to 47ns in Intel MLC with nice tight secondary/tertiary.
> 
> The A-Die kit will run 7000 it seems.. I'm testing that now with super loose timings @ 1.40v DRAM VDD/VDDQ (stock voltage).


First off, I had no idea the G.Skill kit was A-die, that’s kinda wild. Other than that, I guess the only way you’ll know if it’s the board is if you found another board to test with. Dumb idea but maybe try bringing VDD2 down?


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> First off, I had no idea the G.Skill kit was A-die, that’s kinda wild. Other than that, I guess the only way you’ll know if it’s the board is if you found another board to test with. Dumb idea but maybe try bringing VDD2 down?


Yeah, cstkl1 mentioned it a few days ago. You have to check the kit, as GSKILL apparently updated the kit to A-Die. When I was buying my 13900K at Microcenter, they had ~3-4 kits in stock. Asked the associate to check for me, and they had two newer A-Die kits. Grabbed one of them. The kit I grabbed was dated September 2022. Cstkl1's kit was October 2022, I believe.

Typically if I bring VDD2 down, I fail to POST. I'll get to P-Code 4C, and then it'll jump to 55 and dump training. I've tried it all  I've even tried bringing VDD2 up to ~1.46v range in increments to see if it improves anyway. I've noticed 1.40v is where the board is usually most happy for training stability.

Definitely needed to get a little rant off my chest. Thanks boys LOL


----------



## cstkl1

asus tuning so good tm5 cant capture few things even karhu/hci i had to resort to 

found few timings abit too tight


----------



## Wolverine2349

What would be the fastest DDR5 I can pair with a Core i9 13900K on an Asus ROG Strix Z790-F

Here is the RAM QVL list for the Asus ROG Strix Z790-F






ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI | ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global


The ROG Strix Z790-F Gaming WiFi supercharges builds with its robust 16-stage power solution, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, bountiful connectivity, and smart performance. It features four M.2 SSD slots with heatsinks, a PCIe® 5.0 x16 slot, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 support, WiFi 6E, AI Overclocking, AI Cooling...



rog.asus.com





I would like a kit that will be stable and can set XMP out of box and be good to go with stability for RAM. a 2 X 16GB kit. Want it to be able to run without temp issues nor dedicated RAM fan.

Is there a 7200MHz and above realistic for that at CL32 or lower or no??

Reason being 7200MHz should have IMC run at same speed as 3600MHz DDR4 in Gear 1 as or is that not important. Like is there a performance penalty if the IMC runs at 1600MHz to drive DDR5 6400MHz in Gear 2 instead of 1800MHz to drive 3600MHz DDR4?? Of course all else is better but any latency penalty anyways if IMC frequency is slower??

And which ones are A-die as A-die apparently runs a lot cooler though cannot achieve as tight of timings, but does achiever higher clocks??

Are the G.Skill Trident versions at 7200MHz worth it. Or is that a fail on many IMC and even good DDR5 boards like Z790 appears much improved on vs Z690?

The G.Skill trident versions of RAM seem to be the best performing ones that will actually fit ok under an NH-D15S without having to move fan too much up. The Corsair Dominator are way too tall and Team Force are also a bit tall.

Which of G.Skill Trident versions are the best and are some A die and some M die or all one kind of die??

And if 6800MHz or lower is speed to be achieved, could I get CL28 or lower with 6000 to 6400MHz.

What is typical for this stuff??


----------



## cstkl1

Wolverine2349 said:


> What would be the fastest DDR5 I can pair with a Core i9 13900K on an Asus ROG Strix Z790-F
> 
> Here is the RAM QVL list for the Asus ROG Strix Z790-F
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI | ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> 
> The ROG Strix Z790-F Gaming WiFi supercharges builds with its robust 16-stage power solution, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, bountiful connectivity, and smart performance. It features four M.2 SSD slots with heatsinks, a PCIe® 5.0 x16 slot, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 support, WiFi 6E, AI Overclocking, AI Cooling...
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like a kit that will be stable and can set XMP out of box and be good to go with stability for RAM. a 2 X 16GB kit. Want it to be able to run without temp issues nor dedicated RAM fan.
> 
> Is there a 7200MHz and above realistic for that at CL32 or lower or no??
> 
> Reason being 7200MHz should have IMC run at same speed as 3600MHz DDR4 in Gear 1 as or is that not important. Like is there a performance penalty if the IMC runs at 1600MHz to drive DDR5 6400MHz in Gear 2 instead of 1800MHz to drive 3600MHz DDR4?? Of course all else is better but any latency penalty anyways if IMC frequency is slower??
> 
> And which ones are A-die as A-die apparently runs a lot cooler though cannot achieve as tight of timings, but does achiever higher clocks??
> 
> Are the G.Skill Trident versions at 7200MHz worth it. Or is that a fail on many IMC and even good DDR5 boards like Z790 appears much improved on vs Z690?
> 
> The G.Skill trident versions of RAM seem to be the best performing ones that will actually fit ok under an NH-D15S without having to move fan too much up. The Corsair Dominator are way too tall and Team Force are also a bit tall.
> 
> Which of G.Skill Trident versions are the best and are some A die and some M die or all one kind of die??
> 
> And if 6800MHz or lower is speed to be achieved, could I get CL28 or lower with 6000 to 6400MHz.
> 
> What is typical for this stuff??


adie is easy


----------



## Wolverine2349

cstkl1 said:


> adie is easy



Do you mean adie is easy to get to 7200MHz and beyond with the 13900K and a good Z790 motherboard if using only 2 dimms.

Based on searching it appears there is almost no G.Skill Trident kits above 6600MHz like anywhere in stock or at shady foreign language sites or stuff out of stock.

And is G.Skill Trident a.die or m.die??

Is there anyway to tell based on the model.

Like is this below a or b.die and could it be overclocked to 7200MHz??










G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6600 PC5-52800 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5 - Micro Center


Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...




www.microcenter.com


----------



## Raphie

Gskill trident 6400 does 32-41-41-28 @ 1.45v no problem, 109gb throughput @ <48ns latency


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Raphie said:


> Gskill trident 6400 does 32-41-41-28 @ 1.45v no problem, 109gb throughput @ <48ns latency


Voltages and subs please


----------



## Raphie

6800, y-cruncher 2.5b 10/10 runs, Karhu 15k% coverage


----------



## marco.is.not.80

FYI - apologies if this was already posted:











I went ahead and grabbed a set.



Marco


----------



## jeiselramos

Quick test on a.81 just to know if everything is ok, waiting for my 13900K...
6800C30
1.52 VDD/VDDQ
1.05 SA | 1.45 CPU VDDQ | 1.25 CPU VDD2


----------



## energie80

dont waste time...settings going to be totally different with raptor lake


----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> dont waste time...settings going to be totally different with raptor lake


No, pretty much the same.


----------



## energie80

well someone was able to pump the gskill 6400 to 7200 from ADL to RPL, also lower voltages...hope so
will let you know tonite if damn ups come in time


----------



## jeiselramos

energie80 said:


> well someone was able to pump the gskill 6400 to 7200 from ADL to RPL, also lower voltages...hope so
> will let you know tonite if damn ups come in time


That was my daily for months, i just checked if the bios was broken 😜


----------



## energie80

i can push 7000cl30 but not stable


----------



## dev1ance

nvm


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Doesn’t matter if it’s still being polished. The results observed speak for themselves. As far as I’m concerned the work is done. They legit just need to upload it once they’re happy with how it’s looking. And honestly it’s commendable. Apparently their BIOS team is a singular person. How they managed it I haven’t a clue.
> 
> The fact is GC is busy working on 8000 after not being able to train, and biso biso managed 8533 GB3. This is an unprecedented comeback. This is the equivalent of if ASUS had fixed the Maximus D5 issue in a couple of weeks. I was genuinely about to list my Dark for sale because it would’ve been a brick for 13th-Gen. No clue what they did or how they did it.


"ASUS had fixed the Maximus D5 issue in a couple of weeks"
you dont say!


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Oh yay, it's getting worse. Now, no matter what settings I input, the board hangs at 55 after training and won't POST, unless it's JEDEC after a CMOS clear. Hahaha.. can't make this **** up man. Gonna re-flash BIOS..
> 
> @affxct been testing an M-Die kit and A-Die kit. Both display the same issues, though the A-Die does POST at a higher speed (7400 vs M-Die 7200). Can't post 7600+ regardless of settings. I spent 8hrs the first day with this 13900K trying to get 7600 to POST. Every combination you can think of. No bueno.
> 
> I've spent 4 full days fighting with getting this crap running at acceptable speeds. I was able to run 6600 very tight with my 12700K + M-Die kit.. but above 6600.. nope.
> 
> I'm pretty burned out and frustrated at this point. I've had very little to no success, a lot of hours, and not much to show for it. I had a blast with DDR4, but DDR5 has backed the truck up and ran me over a few times 😂


i was told / i heard not every 13900k can be stable with a die at 7200mhz, and only 1/3 of 13900k can be stable at 7600mhz or above (a die).


----------



## asdkj1740

Wolverine2349 said:


> What would be the fastest DDR5 I can pair with a Core i9 13900K on an Asus ROG Strix Z790-F
> 
> Here is the RAM QVL list for the Asus ROG Strix Z790-F
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI | ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> 
> The ROG Strix Z790-F Gaming WiFi supercharges builds with its robust 16-stage power solution, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, bountiful connectivity, and smart performance. It features four M.2 SSD slots with heatsinks, a PCIe® 5.0 x16 slot, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 support, WiFi 6E, AI Overclocking, AI Cooling...
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like a kit that will be stable and can set XMP out of box and be good to go with stability for RAM. a 2 X 16GB kit. Want it to be able to run without temp issues nor dedicated RAM fan.
> 
> Is there a 7200MHz and above realistic for that at CL32 or lower or no??
> 
> Reason being 7200MHz should have IMC run at same speed as 3600MHz DDR4 in Gear 1 as or is that not important. Like is there a performance penalty if the IMC runs at 1600MHz to drive DDR5 6400MHz in Gear 2 instead of 1800MHz to drive 3600MHz DDR4?? Of course all else is better but any latency penalty anyways if IMC frequency is slower??
> 
> And which ones are A-die as A-die apparently runs a lot cooler though cannot achieve as tight of timings, but does achiever higher clocks??
> 
> Are the G.Skill Trident versions at 7200MHz worth it. Or is that a fail on many IMC and even good DDR5 boards like Z790 appears much improved on vs Z690?
> 
> The G.Skill trident versions of RAM seem to be the best performing ones that will actually fit ok under an NH-D15S without having to move fan too much up. The Corsair Dominator are way too tall and Team Force are also a bit tall.
> 
> Which of G.Skill Trident versions are the best and are some A die and some M die or all one kind of die??
> 
> And if 6800MHz or lower is speed to be achieved, could I get CL28 or lower with 6000 to 6400MHz.
> 
> What is typical for this stuff??


for 6 layers mobos it seems 7200~7400 is the sweet pot for a die.


----------



## Wolverine2349

asdkj1740 said:


> for 6 layers mobos it seems 7200~7400 is the sweet pot for a die.



And at what timings is sweet spot??


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> i was told / i heard not every 13900k can be stable with a die at 7200mhz, and only 1/3 of 13900k can be stable at 7600mhz or above (a die).


You might be on to something.

7400 seems to be testing OK at 1.275v SA, but could this just be the motherboard being weak, requiring higher voltages for stability?

Will keep testing..


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> You might be on to something.
> 
> 7400 seems to be testing OK at 1.275v SA, but could this just be the motherboard being weak, requiring higher voltages for stability?
> 
> Will keep testing..


mobo vendors got hundreds maybe thousands of those to test, so the stats is legit.
although those are not retail.


----------



## asdkj1740

Wolverine2349 said:


> And at what timings is sweet spot??


xmp of course.


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> mobo vendors got hundreds maybe thousands of those to test, so the stats is legit.
> although those are not retail.


Where did you hear this info from? Just curious.

We'll see. I forget what the max SA voltage for 24/7 is. 1.35? 1.40?

@cstkl1 are you seriously running 7600 @ 1.000v SA? lmao


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Where did you hear this info from? Just curious.
> 
> We'll see. I forget what the max SA voltage for 24/7 is. 1.35? 1.40?
> 
> @cstkl1 are you seriously running 7600 @ 1.000v SA? lmao


yes

6800/7200 is 0.85v btw stock


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Where did you hear this info from? Just curious.
> 
> We'll see. I forget what the max SA voltage for 24/7 is. 1.35? 1.40?
> 
> @cstkl1 are you seriously running 7600 @ 1.000v SA? lmao


definitely not from asus


----------



## cstkl1

will post later one hci run on air 7600c36 ( passive cool spd will hit 60-70c) stable ss later


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> definitely not from asus


final ES cpu this time seems similar to retail

so thar stat should have merit.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> final ES cpu this time seems similar to retail
> 
> so thar stat should have merit.


You have a golden chip then, I guess lol


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> will post later one hci run on air 7600c36 ( passive cool spd will hit 60-70c) stable ss later


Can you include all voltages/timings with that screenshot please? I'd like to try something similar.. I think I have 7400 stable with loose timings at 1.40v on the memory


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> final ES cpu this time seems similar to retail
> 
> so thar stat should have merit.


i have also heard the es this time suck lol. i saw one es fail to pass 7200mhz(xmp) stress test on z790 hero.
maybe retail (i mean it really comes with boxes) would be better.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> i have also heard the es this time suck lol. i saw one es fail to pass 7200mhz(xmp) stress test on z790 hero.
> maybe retail (i mean it really comes with boxes) would be better.


yes ES there were SP 70-80 cpu


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> You have a golden chip then, I guess lol


its nothing special timing . pretty similar to @owikh84 but a c36

and i dont think its golden.


----------



## opt33

asdkj1740 said:


> mobo vendors got hundreds maybe thousands of those to test, so the stats is legit.
> although those are not retail.


Bummer if holds for retail, no point in z790 if my mediocre imc 13900kf is limiting factor (unless try another 13900). 

For vcolor 7400 8K karhu and tm5 30mins need 1.38ish vddq, 1.46 vdd2, (lower vdd2 spits errors), but still crashed gaming in 20 mins, which usually imc (or mobo) (once passing memory tests), my cpu is still stock. Saw others running 7400 with much less vdd2. Cant post 7600. Testing gaming with 7200 now and have teamgroup 7200 kit by end of week.

Dont know if required vdd2 for 7400 would be lower on z790 mobo or all cpu.


----------



## acoustic

opt33 said:


> Bummer if holds for retail, no point in z790 if my mediocre imc 13900kf is limiting factor (unless try another 13900).
> 
> For vcolor 7400 8K karhu and tm5 30mins need 1.38ish vddq, 1.46 vdd2, (lower vdd2 spits errors), but still crashed gaming in 20 mins, which usually imc (or mobo) (once passing memory tests), my cpu is still stock. Saw others running 7400 with much less vdd2. Cant post 7600. Testing gaming with 7200 now and have teamgroup 7200 kit by end of week.
> 
> Dont know if required vdd2 for 7400 would be lower on z790 mobo or all cpu.


That sounds exactly like my issue... And guess what we have in common?

Unify-X.


----------



## SoldierRBT

My 12900KS needs 1v SA for 7400 and 1.05v for 7600 (stock SA is 0.9v). 13900K stock SA seems to be pretty low 0.8v at least the 2 my friend tested.


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Can you include all voltages/timings with that screenshot please? I'd like to try something similar.. I think I have 7400 stable with loose timings at 1.40v on the memory


it is kind of strange that it seems on average those a die with xmp profile perform not as well as green stick kits.
maybe it takes some time for mobo vendors to further optimize these expensive a die kits. new PCB design etc.

in short, i see no point buying those 7000 or above kits.
teamgroup 7200 (on asus mobos) is great btw.


----------



## asdkj1740

it seems only teamgroup kevin wu is using 4 dimm mobos to test their a die kits before shipping.
that guy literally tests thousands of them.

for gskill kits, they only list z790 apex in their qvl, so...


----------



## Chintz

I feel like im close getting that stable (6600 G.Skill a-die), maybe loosen maintimings even more
7600 is benchstable for me, but i will not go on with 7600 on Strix-E

On a sidenote: Z790 Strix boards have die sense now it seems, thought thats only for Maximus boards, wasnt it like that in the past?

View attachment 2578239


----------



## opt33

acoustic said:


> That sounds exactly like my issue... And guess what we have in common?
> 
> Unify-X.


yeah, my unify-x at higher frequency at least part of issue, just dont know 13900 imc limit either. If 7200 vcolor and incoming teamgroup fails gaming, may make me curious enough to try 2 dimm Z790, apex etc when available...course then may need another cpu if imc limiting (or wait for KS). Just aiming for 7200-7600 with reasonable tight settings, so far been pita, though 12900k was was much worse.


----------



## acoustic

opt33 said:


> yeah, my unify-x at higher frequency at least part of issue, just dont know 13900 imc limit either. If 7200 vcolor and incoming teamgroup fails gaming, may make me curious enough to try 2 dimm Z790, apex etc when available...course then may need another cpu if imc limiting (or wait for KS). Just aiming for 7200-7600 with reasonable tight settings, so far been pita, though 12900k was was much worse.


I'm in the same boat. I just want 7400 with decent timings. My 12700K w/ the Unify-X couldn't even POST at 7000.. this 13900K can do that.

I haven't figured out how to POST 7600 (don't think it's possible, tbh). 7400 is a struggle.. I'm at 1.280v SA now.. got an error in Karhu @ 3400% at 1.275v.

I'm on Auto VDDQ/VDD2. It's up at 1.50 VDDQ/1.40 VDD2. If I can get this stable I'll try and lower voltages.. but high voltages seem to be the only thing that gives me consistent memory training.


----------



## asdkj1740

opt33 said:


> yeah, my unify-x at higher frequency at least part of issue, just dont know 13900 imc limit either. If 7200 vcolor and incoming teamgroup fails gaming, may make me curious enough to try 2 dimm Z790, apex etc when available...course then may need another cpu if imc limiting (or wait for KS). Just aiming for 7200-7600 with reasonable tight settings, so far been pita, though 12900k was was much worse.


but if 13900k with m die on z790 4 dimm mobo can do 7000mhz, it seems not wise to go for a die frequency lower than 7400.
a die requires looser timings than m die does.


----------



## ChaosAD

So, no-one has managed to get 7000-7200 mdie stable in on Unify X yet? I was hopping for at least 7000 tight when/if I get my 13900K/KF.


----------



## asdkj1740

ChaosAD said:


> So, no-one has managed to get 7000-7200 mdie stable in on Unify X yet? I was hopping for at least 7000 tight when/if I get my 13900K/KF.


make sure to use a81u4 for a die.


----------



## acoustic

ChaosAD said:


> So, no-one has managed to get 7000-7200 mdie stable in on Unify X yet? I was hopping for at least 7000 tight when/if I get my 13900K/KF.


I had 7000 very close to stable on my M-Die..

@cstkl1 wow the stock heatsinks are horrendous on these gskill lol


----------



## KedarWolf

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/memtest86-plus-is-back-after-9-years


----------



## Vasoka

z390e said:


> Does the RAM pass testmem5 usmus? or anta777 extreme or absolut?


Hi, thanks for answering. I just tested with absolut of anta777 (which I read is the best?) , it finished with no errors in 1 hour and 30 min. I'm on an OC-ed 12900k as a reference. I take it passing that means ram is good?


----------



## opt33

ChaosAD said:


> So, no-one has managed to get 7000-7200 mdie stable in on Unify X yet? I was hopping for at least 7000 tight when/if I get my 13900K/KF.


6800 max stable with mdie and my 13900kf/unifyx. My best mdie kit (of several) rarely trains 7000 only with loose primary/secondary timings and high volts but bsods windows. Weirdly enough my samsung 6000 kit (one of first ddr5 kits) easily trains/bench 7000 with tight settings even with old 12900k (not stable though) and requires 1.62+vdd so mem tests not possible on air. 

adie at least easily trains/runs memory tests on my 13900kf/unifyx with reasonably tight settings 7200/7400, though turns out gaming still an issue with 7400.

my unifyx seems to hit a wall at 7000 mdie and 7600 adie.


----------



## acoustic

Unify-X owners gonna need to start a ****in' mental health therapy group for how much trauma this board creates trying to go above 7000 .. LOL

I'm gonna put these GSKILL sticks under water to eliminate temps as an issue. Hitting 54c where the Kingston kit would only hit 46-47. When I say that Kingston is making BY FAR the best memory for normal users who aren't changing out heatsinks or doing crazy high voltage.. I mean it. The fact they're selling their memory cheaper than everyone else is awesome too.

+rep for Kingston


----------



## snakeeyes111

A-die i can run 7800 Benchstable on my unify.Dont try any more.Still with old 1200kf avx512 one.
8000 not possible.


----------



## acoustic

snakeeyes111 said:


> A-die i can run 7800 Benchstable on my unify.Dont try any more.Still with old 1200kf avx512 one.
> 8000 not possible.


Unify-I or Unify-X?


----------



## snakeeyes111

Unify-x


----------



## snakeeyes111

No snapshot possible, os broken ^^ sry.









For bench and tight subs more vdd/vddq, was just the start. +15k geek3


----------



## Fissa

Imagine paying a premium for DDR5 RAM and the motherboard only to get 100ns latency and some little extra bandwidth.


----------



## Nizzen

Fissa said:


> Imagine paying a premium for DDR5 RAM and the motherboard only to get 100ns latency and some little extra bandwidth.
> View attachment 2578329


Imagine posting in this thread without posting ON TOPIC....
1337 duration


----------



## 673714

Fissa said:


> Imagine paying a premium for DDR5 RAM and the motherboard only to get 100ns latency and some little extra bandwidth.
> View attachment 2578329


This is a hobby that requires more disposable income than you are comfortable with, and that's ok obviously


----------



## Nizzen

*Test BIOS for Maximus Z690 Apex*
Test BIOS / 2022-Oct-24 / By bianbao
BIOS Ver. 0002
update memory overclock capability.

ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0002.CAP


----------



## ChaosAD

asdkj1740 said:


> make sure to use a81u4 for a die.


Don't have a die sticks atm, only 6600c34 m die



acoustic said:


> I had 7000 very close to stable on my M-Die..


Hope you can get it stable and share your settings then 😁


opt33 said:


> 6800 max stable with mdie and my 13900kf/unifyx. My best mdie kit (of several) rarely trains 7000 only with loose primary/secondary timings and high volts but bsods windows. Weirdly enough my samsung 6000 kit (one of first ddr5 kits) easily trains/bench 7000 with tight settings even with old 12900k (not stable though) and requires 1.62+vdd so mem tests not possible on air.


So I guess, although 13900K is supposed to have better IMC, still not much success for 7000+ with Unify X. That's sad tbh.


----------



## opt33

snakeeyes111 said:


> No snapshot possible, os broken ^^ sry.
> 
> View attachment 2578328
> 
> 
> For bench and tight subs more vdd/vddq, was just the start. +15k geek3


7800c36 at 1.4vdd on 12900! nice bin of ram and imc on 12900. Did you buy unifyx mobo early when first came out or later? I wonder if they made silent improvements or just luck of draw as seen other unifyx do 7800 but mine wont boot 7600 even with single stick.


----------



## snakeeyes111

opt33 said:


> first came out or later


Early one. Mdie also go up to 7000 stable. My Samsung Kit also 7000c32 stable .

TG 7200


----------



## snakeeyes111

Nizzen said:


> *Test BIOS for Maximus Z690 Apex*
> Test BIOS / 2022-Oct-24 / By bianbao
> BIOS Ver. 0002
> update memory overclock capability.
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0002.CAP


Can someone check Mdie? I cant do old daily settings around 6800-7000 tm5 always Error 0 after few Seconds.

I also test auto subs, same....


----------



## Carillo

So, been working on my 8000 profile, and i think this is the limit for my sticks, but going to keep trying to push  

Hynix green stick


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> I had 7000 very close to stable on my M-Die..
> 
> @cstkl1 wow the stock heatsinks are horrendous on these gskill lol


you mean you cant get 13900k with hynix m die at 7000mhz on z690 unify x stable?


----------



## Muut

acoustic said:


> I have the Renegade 6400CL32 kit (M-Die), but currently I have the GSKILL 6600GX2 A-Die installed.
> 
> The Kingston kit.. I felt very close to getting 7000 stable, but I hit a brick wall that would not get me past errors in Karhu @ ~3000%. It was always around 3000%, and changing any voltages would make it worse, not better. Felt like I had everything dialed in as much as possible. The issue in all these cases is not DIMM temps - I made sure of that with side-panel removed. Typically don't get warmer than low/mid 40s, and I leave tREFI @ ~7000 when testing so that the sticks are less thermally sensitive.
> 
> I usually ran the Kingston kit 10mv underneath VDD. If voltage was 1.480 DRAM VDD, I ran 1.470 DRAM VDDQ. For my stable tight OC with the 12700K and Kingston kit @ 6600 32-39-39-30, I was running 1.425v DRAM VDD / 1.390v DRAM VDDQ. I had that kit down to 47ns in Intel MLC with nice tight secondary/tertiary.
> 
> The A-Die kit will run 7000 it seems.. I'm testing that now with super loose timings @ 1.40v DRAM VDD/VDDQ (stock voltage).


Hey,

Here is my profile and my voltages. I know you cannot just copy and expect to be stable but we share the same MB and ram so maybe it could give you a few hints.










Mind you, I had the surprise to find that Karhu would throw its first error at 28 000% coverage. But I decided to settle for this despite of the error, as it was temp related (SPD 58°c is the limit)


----------



## db000

"Finally" got my thumb out... and mounted the 2DIMM copper block from Bartx. The 4090 Strix OC also required a new smaller tube from EK to fitted. A new kind of "GPU Support" I suppose 😄
12900KS, G.Skill 6400CL32 M-dies on Unify-X. 6800 max atm, will give 7000 another try once 13900KS comes out.


----------



## sblantipodi

what is a safe IMC VDD for DDR5?

View attachment 2578365


this IMC VDD can't let me go past 5.2GHz on 4 sticks.

can I try to higher it?

what are the recommended values for raptor lake?


----------



## jeiselramos

sblantipodi said:


> what is a safe IMC VDD for DDR5?
> 
> View attachment 2578365
> 
> 
> this IMC VDD can't let me go past 5.2GHz on 4 sticks.
> 
> can I try to higher it?
> 
> what are the recommended values for raptor lake?


why don't you try it yourself instead of asking?
Everybody use completely different voltages / combination.

Spoiler: too high bad, too low bad. It's just trial and error


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> you mean you cant get 13900k with hynix m die at 7000mhz on z690 unify x stable?


Not on mine, no.


----------



## sblantipodi

jeiselramos said:


> why don't you try it yourself instead of asking?
> Everybody use completely different voltages / combination.
> 
> Spoiler: too high bad, too low bad. It's just trial and error


I'm worried to burn the imc with too High voltage.


----------



## Carillo

sblantipodi said:


> I'm worried to burn the imc with too High voltage.


That’s why intel say don’t overclock. If you are worried run 5600mhz ☺ There is not a single person who can answer that question.


----------



## opt33

vcolor adie 7200 was karhu stable for hours on 13900k, gamed for 45 minutes no issue, rebooted to save the "stable" profile and straight to f1 (failure to boot).

on bright side looks like my mdie runs stable at 6800c32 with only 1.25 vddq/1.25 vdd2 and still walking it down so maybe 13900 imc not bad . Back to gaming until z790 2 dimm mobo's released.


----------



## sblantipodi

Carillo said:


> That’s why intel say don’t overclock. If you are worried run 5600mhz ☺ There is not a single person who can answer that question.


Have you ever tried overclocking with 4 sticks?
I don't think so, 5.6GHz on 4 sticks Is not Easy and Raptor seems to not improve over alder on 4 sticks.


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & T-FORCE DDR5 OC 9046MHZ 開風冷


----------



## Carillo

sblantipodi said:


> Have you ever tried overclocking with 4 sticks?
> I don't think so, 5.6GHz on 4 sticks Is not Easy and Raptor seems to not improve over alder on 4 sticks.


I see you got my point. Good luck 🙃👍


----------



## acoustic

opt33 said:


> vcolor adie 7200 was karhu stable for hours on 13900k, gamed for 45 minutes no issue, rebooted to save the "stable" profile and straight to f1 (failure to boot).
> 
> on bright side looks like my mdie runs stable at 6800c32 with only 1.25 vddq/1.25 vdd2 and still walking it down so maybe 13900 imc not bad . Back to gaming until z790 2 dimm mobo's released.


Yeah, it's gotta be the board.

Are you keeping the A-Die for the future Z790 board?


----------



## Zero989

Hahaha Intel IMC bug (New AIDA doesn't fix bug either)


----------



## opt33

acoustic said:


> Yeah, it's gotta be the board.
> 
> Are you keeping the A-Die for the future Z790 board?


yeah, and have teamgroup a die on route as well, so have to buy z790 now or use them as paper weights.


----------



## bscool

Zero989 said:


> Hahaha Intel IMC bug (New AIDA doesn't fix bug either)
> 
> View attachment 2578398
> 
> 
> View attachment 2578399


I wonder if it is a driver or ME firmware I know someone with the same components (z690 Strix d4/13900k) as me and he has the bug and I do not.

Both ILM and Aida are accurate for me on z690 ddr4 and z690 ddr5 with 13th gen.


----------



## acoustic

opt33 said:


> yeah, and have teamgroup a die on route as well, so have to buy z790 now or use them as paper weights.


I can still return my A-Die.. I think I will. I can put my M-Die on water and crank the voltage up for 7200, if the board will handle it.


----------



## Zero989

bscool said:


> I wonder if it is a driver or ME firmware I know someone with the same components (z690 Strix d4/13900k) as me and he has the bug and I do not.
> 
> Both ILM and Aida are accurate for me on z690 ddr4 and z690 ddr5 with 13th gen.


Not sure, I know that I don't have the absolute latest version of Intel ME. There's a version ending in .19xx and I think I am on .18xx. 

I just did user benchmark instead to get an idea of latency. EVGA Z690 CLASSIFIED Performance Results - UserBenchmark

Easy 100% percentile lol....


----------



## Exilon

bscool said:


> I wonder if it is a driver or ME firmware I know someone with the same components (z690 Strix d4/13900k) as me and he has the bug and I do not.
> 
> Both ILM and Aida are accurate for me on z690 ddr4 and z690 ddr5 with 13th gen.


Do you see any messages just running ./mlc.exe on the command prompt?


----------



## bscool

Exilon said:


> Do you see any messages just running ./mlc.exe on the command prompt?


I run it as admin, no message.

Edit I never tried running the cmd prompt.

Edit 2 just did and that one give me inaccurate results GUI one works though.

Wait now GUI one off too lol. Looks like sometimes it works and sometimes not.


----------



## tubs2x4

sblantipodi said:


> Have you ever tried overclocking with 4 sticks?
> I don't think so, 5.6GHz on 4 sticks Is not Easy and Raptor seems to not improve over alder on 4 sticks.


I think BZ said that 1.4 vdd for daily good 1.5 if your brave. Check out his vids. Pretty good info.


----------



## Exilon

bscool said:


> I run it as admin, no message.
> 
> Edit I never tried running the cmd prompt.
> 
> Edit 2 just did and that one give me inaccurate results GUI one works though.
> 
> Wait now GUI one off too lol. Looks like sometimes it works and sometimes not.


when running with admin cmdline:
mlc.exe -e --idle_latency disables the prefetch driver which should give you extremely low wrong results
mlc.exe --idle_latency should enable the prefetch toggle and give you results below AIDA
mlc.exe -r --idle_latency uses the random read algorithm which should give you high results, closer to AIDA, but it should work without needing the driver.

I wonder what is broken on 13th gen? There doesn't seem to be a contact link for MLC to ask them about it.


----------



## acoustic

I've decided I'm going to put my M-Die sticks on water and return the A-Die. I might grab a Z790 DARK or APEX if I find one at a decent price and I'm in the mood to throw money away.

If I do, I can always grab another set of A-Die later on.

Back to testing 7000 on the M-Die!


----------



## Zero989

Exilon said:


> when running with admin cmdline:
> mlc.exe -e --idle_latency disables the prefetch driver which should give you extremely low wrong results
> mlc.exe --idle_latency should enable the prefetch toggle and give you results below AIDA
> mlc.exe -r --idle_latency uses the random read algorithm which should give you high results, closer to AIDA, but it should work without needing the driver.
> 
> I wonder what is broken on 13th gen? There doesn't seem to be a contact link for MLC to ask them about it.


That actually works


----------



## Exilon

Zero989 said:


> That actually works
> 
> View attachment 2578419


-r reads quite a bit higher because it loads the memory bus doing the random reads


















On my system this is equivalent a 20GB/s read load with the driver working. Unfortunately you can't check your loaded latency properly if the prefetch driver isn't working since the -r option raises every measurement point.


----------



## martin28bln

Status after receiving 7200er Gskills today:
Config: Asus Z690i; Bios2103, 13900K

a) no boot with both XMP Settings both sticks
b) first boot starting at 6800 with 1.4 for RAM; SA 1.1; IMC 1.2 --> failures in testmem5
c) clocking up to 7000 boots but failures in windows
d) starting now Testmem5 with 6600 running 31min actually without failures

A bit disappointing....


----------



## Carillo

martin28bln said:


> Status after receiving 7200er Gskills today:
> Config: Asus Z690i; Bios2103, 13900K
> 
> a) no boot with both XMP Settings both sticks
> b) first boot starting at 6800 with 1.4 for RAM; SA 1.1; IMC 1.2 --> failures in testmem5
> c) clocking up to 7000 boots but failures in windows
> d) starting now Testmem5 with 6600 running 31min actually without failures
> 
> A bit disappointing....



Clear cmos, hold button for 10 sec ( minimum)
Use auto SA and MC for initial training.
Don't use XMP settings, apply 36.46.46.89, the rest set at auto.
Disable fast boot
Keep the cpu and all other settings on auto until you find preferred settings.

I would start with 7000mhz, at 1,45VDD and VVQ, VVDQ TX AUTO and increase mhz as you go along. Yes that's more than you need but it's much easier to train with overhead. Thing is ( for me at l east), if you change SA, MC or VDD, you have to clear cmos to pass any test. That's my advise anyways. Good luck


----------



## asdkj1740

martin28bln said:


> Status after receiving 7200er Gskills today:
> Config: Asus Z690i; Bios2103, 13900K
> 
> a) no boot with both XMP Settings both sticks
> b) first boot starting at 6800 with 1.4 for RAM; SA 1.1; IMC 1.2 --> failures in testmem5
> c) clocking up to 7000 boots but failures in windows
> d) starting now Testmem5 with 6600 running 31min actually without failures
> 
> A bit disappointing....


i kind of feel that gskill a die kits (7000 or above) do not like high dram voltages.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> i kind of feel that gskill a die kits (7000 or above) do not like high dram voltages.


pmic no pads i guess


----------



## z390e

I'm going to say this here, because Racergroup and Amazon keep removing my Amazon review, and have yet to refund my $, and I now have no item, no refund, and am having to take legal action over a measly $330 for the first time as a Prime member since 2006.

I had inadvertently bought 2 kits of 6600's. When I returned the one 6600's (unopened, and I had to drive them 30 minutes each way to a drop off) Amazon's tracking says it has not even shipped them out where I returned them 18 days ago. But the actual dropoff spot proved to me with video that Amazon picked them up same day.

Racergroup (the seller) won't take any of my support emails of course. _This is the only vendor I have ever had an issue with a return on Amazon in 16 years._

Edit and to add some actual data to this opinion piece. Here is what GSkill 6400, GSkill 6600 and TeamGroup 7200 look like on my rig. Yes the core and ring are different in the last pic but you can still get a rough idea.


----------



## martin28bln

Carillo said:


> Clear cmos, hold button for 10 sec ( minimum)
> Use auto SA and MC for initial training.
> Don't use XMP settings, apply 36.46.46.89, the rest set at auto.
> Disable fast boot
> Keep the cpu and all other settings on auto until you find preferred settings.
> 
> I would start with 7000mhz, at 1,45VDD and VVQ, VVDQ TX AUTO and increase mhz as you go along. Yes that's more than you need but it's much easier to train with overhead. Thing is ( for me at l east), if you change SA, MC or VDD, you have to clear cmos to pass any test. That's my advise anyways. Good luck


Does not work and same like my procedure before. Bluescreen after Boot. Auto IMC and SA 1.35 what I have seen...
Never less thanks for trying to help.


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> pmic no pads i guess


stupid gskill as always.
even putting a 120mm 2000rpm fan on top of the sticks (1.4v stock), the spd temps is still poor.


----------



## energie80

Going to skip gskill this time


----------



## asdkj1740

energie80 said:


> Going to skip gskill this time


however for highly binned a die kits, the voltages tend to be much lower than green sticks voltages needed.
without tearing it down i seriously doubt with the highest potential of the kits can be squeezed completely.
maybe this is the way how gskill makes their profit.


----------



## newls1

Not having any issues "yet" but can someone please look these settings over and see what you would adjust for the speed at which im at please. What would you tighten up or loosen up if you think im to tight on something. Im kinda worried about my Cas Write Lanteny (tCWL) @ 28.. is this to tight? Thank you for the time trying to help me! Im game stable and y-cruncher, etc.... But just trying to fine tune. Thanks again


----------



## cstkl1

i wanted to test 7800c38 gskill bin speed thats being sold,
it works at 1.4v instead of their 1.45v rated qvl.

6800c32/7200c34/7600c36 all works @1.4v

ok so whats interesting on 7800. maybe can help u guys

1. txvddq i had to intervene reduce it to 1.35v instead of auto to pass memtest 86
2. trrdd_sg use 9
3. now the interesting part trdpden 47. the normal auto logic is tcl + 8. = 46 this case but found 47 better. still testing this. not sure 100%
tref here is auto btw because spd temp later will hit 70c as its passively cooled mostly


----------



## acoustic

Your voltages are so much more stable than what mine are on the Unify-X. My DRAM VDD/VDDQ/VPP all will drop below 1.30v when I have 1.40v set.. easily enough to cause instability. I notice this to be the case with the DARK as well. The voltage control might be on the DIMM sticks, but it's still receiving power from the motherboard.. and I don't think the Unify-X is delivering as clean power as some other boards with more robust PCB layers/trace design.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Your voltages are so much more stable than what mine are on the Unify-X. My DRAM VDD/VDDQ/VPP all will drop below 1.30v when I have 1.40v set.. easily enough to cause instability. I notice this to be the case with the DARK as well. The voltage control might be on the DIMM sticks, but it's still receiving power from the motherboard.. and I don't think the Unify-X is delivering as clean power as some other boards with more robust PCB layers/trace design.


Mine will drop by maybe .05v at the most but generally stay about what I have set on Unify-X.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Your voltages are so much more stable than what mine are on the Unify-X. My DRAM VDD/VDDQ/VPP all will drop below 1.30v when I have 1.40v set.. easily enough to cause instability. I notice this to be the case with the DARK as well. The voltage control might be on the DIMM sticks, but it's still receiving power from the motherboard.. and I don't think the Unify-X is delivering as clean power as some other boards with more robust PCB layers/trace design.


was told thats a bug with hwinfo the vpp/vdda drop


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> was told thats a bug with hwinfo the vpp/vdda drop


Only with certain boards? I rarely see it with APEX, DARK or Aqua OC.. all 3 boards that OC mem much better than the Unify-X.

I hope it's just a bug, that would be a relief. Any chance you remember where you heard that?


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Only with certain boards? I rarely see it with APEX, DARK or Aqua OC.. all 3 boards that OC mem much better than the Unify-X.
> 
> I hope it's just a bug, that would be a relief. Any chance you remember where you heard that?


that not sure. 
afaik the unlock (locked) pmic ones has this the most.


----------



## owikh84

owikh84 said:


> Testing Hynix A Die 84N BA, I can confirm that the VDD is capped at 1.435V as reported here before.
> 
> 12900K SP98 (P108/E80) - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.81U3
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + Iceman Cooler HS + WB
> Ambient: 30-32C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7600 34-45-45-30-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.40v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v*
> View attachment 2572079


13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.91
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatsink
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7600 34-45-45-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v* 









13900K vs 12900K, locked A die at 7600 with the same timings and voltages except for TX VDDQ requiring a slight bump.
Latency 54.9ns vs 48.6ns.
TM5 complete time is faster though, 1:03 vs 1:08.


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> i wanted to test 7800c38 gskill bin speed thats being sold,
> it works at 1.4v instead of their 1.45v rated qvl.
> 
> 6800c32/7200c34/7600c36 all works @1.4v
> 
> ok so whats interesting on 7800. maybe can help u guys
> 
> 1. txvddq i had to intervene reduce it to 1.35v instead of auto to pass memtest 86
> 2. trrdd_sg use 9
> 3. now the interesting part trdpden 47. the normal auto logic is tcl + 8. = 46 this case but found 47 better. still testing this. not sure 100%
> tref here is auto btw because spd temp later will hit 70c as its passively cooled mostly
> View attachment 2578637
> 
> View attachment 2578636


i also found out gskill a die kits do not like high cpu vddq. 1.25v shines. 1.4v 1.5v sucks.
but can 70c spd temp pass the stress test in you case??


----------



## asdkj1740

owikh84 said:


> 13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - Stock
> MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.91
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower heatsink
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7600 34-45-45-30-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.435v | SA 1.15v | MC 1.40v*
> View attachment 2578658
> 
> 
> 13900K vs 12900K, locked A die at 7600 with the same timings and voltages except for TX VDDQ requiring a slight bump.
> Latency 54.9ns vs 48.6ns.
> TM5 complete time is faster though, 1:03 vs 1:08.


msi toppc summed that up:


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Only with certain boards? I rarely see it with APEX, DARK or Aqua OC.. all 3 boards that OC mem much better than the Unify-X.
> 
> I hope it's just a bug, that would be a relief. Any chance you remember where you heard that?


it is just a bug, you can go ask martin here or on his forum.
i have seen these on msi and gigabyte mobos.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> i also found out gskill a die kits do not like high cpu vddq. 1.25v shines. 1.4v 1.5v sucks.
> but can 70c spd temp pass the stress test in you case??


tref if i put back to 1.95ns yes. for long runs
for voltage on air gskill too hot the spd temp. 1.4v higher ram clock can spike 79c


----------



## Exilon

owikh84 said:


> Latency 54.9ns vs 48.6ns.
> TM5 complete time is faster though, 1:03 vs 1:08.


Try using the latest 6.80.6200 released yesterday. AIDA's latency test algo is bad and reads high.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584112454836969473On other tools doing a latency ladder test it is reading -3.5ns on 13900K as expected but AIDA says +3-5ns


----------



## Exilon

On the topic memory testing tools, you can chowder's latency ladder tool here

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1584316396724715520
It's written by one of the authors of Chips and Cheese hardware analysis blog


https://twitter.com/ChipsandCheese9


----------



## z390e

AIDA64 is gonna be obsolete if they dont fix some of these issues they have


----------



## cstkl1

testing bios 0701 now. yeah i like to set a baseline test each bios one by one. see the diff. 

atm 7800 txvddq auto is fine on 0701


----------



## acoustic

Installed my IceManCooler heatsinks. No waterblock, still on air.

Temps dropped ~4-5c compared to the Kingston heatsinks.. was hitting ~53c @ 1.50v VDD, and I'm at 48.5c on hottest stick right now. I was extremely impressed with the quality of the Kingston heatsinks. PMIC thermal pad, and full-length pad across the memory as well.

I may grab some better thermal pads than what IceManCooler supplied. Looks like 0.5mm on the memory side, and 1mm on flat side..

edit: hmm, temps keep climbing. Up to 50c on DIMM in first slot, and 46.5c on DIMM in second slot. I think the lack of "fins" like the Kingston heatsinks isn't allowing the air to flow through them as well. Maybe have poor contact on the stick in the first slot; will try reseating it.

I'm still very satisfied with the quality of the heatsinks - very hefty. Could just be an issue of me rushing through mounting the last stick.


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Installed my IceManCooler heatsinks. No waterblock, still on air.
> 
> Temps dropped ~4-5c compared to the Kingston heatsinks.. was hitting ~53c @ 1.50v VDD, and I'm at 48.5c on hottest stick right now. I was extremely impressed with the quality of the Kingston heatsinks. PMIC thermal pad, and full-length pad across the memory as well.
> 
> I may grab some better thermal pads than what IceManCooler supplied. Looks like 0.5mm on the memory side, and 1mm on flat side..
> 
> edit: hmm, temps keep climbing. Up to 50c on DIMM in first slot, and 46.5c on DIMM in second slot. I think the lack of "fins" like the Kingston heatsinks isn't allowing the air to flow through them as well. Maybe have poor contact on the stick in the first slot; will try reseating it.
> 
> I'm still very satisfied with the quality of the heatsinks - very hefty. Could just be an issue of me rushing through mounting the last stick.


in fact the fury beast's heatsink is way too tin and short. the thermal performance out of the box is good but it would be better to have thicker and taller heatisnk designed by kingston.


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> in fact the fury beast's heatsink is way too tin and short. the thermal performance out of the box is good but it would be better to have thicker and taller heatisnk designed by kingston.


Are the Beast the same heatsink as the Renegade? I have the Renegade's. TBH, they have the best heatsink out of any of the DRAM manufacturers that I've seen so far. GSkill Trident Z5 was atrocious. TeamGroup TFORCE was also horrendous. The Kingston kit was way cooler even at higher voltage.


----------



## NBPDC505

What's the consensus between 7600mhz G Skill vs Team Group? Looks like both are available on NE now and I'd like to get a set and send these V-color back asap. Using Z790 Hero mb and 13900k


----------



## bhav

NBPDC505 said:


> What's the consensus between 7600mhz G Skill vs Team Group? Looks like both are available on NE now and I'd like to get a set and send these V-color back asap. Using Z790 Hero mb and 13900k


How well do your current ones OC?


----------



## NBPDC505

bhav said:


> How well do your current ones OC?


The V-color (7200mhz) have errors in memtest at stock XMP settings but run fine turned down to 7000mhz. Looks like a couple others here have had issues with them running good as well, and they actually changed the shipped xmp profile after the early ones from cl34 1.4v to cl36 1.45v which tells me they are aware they weren't able to properly hit the initial settings.


----------



## bhav

NBPDC505 said:


> The V-color (7200mhz) have errors in memtest at stock XMP settings but run fine turned down to 7000mhz. Looks like a couple others here have had issues with them running good as well, and they actually changed the shipped xmp profile after the early ones from cl34 1.4v to cl36 1.45v which tells me they are aware they weren't able to properly hit the initial settings.


Well thats still good. Why not wait a bit longer for 8000+ kits?


----------



## Raphie

Most factory “heatsinks” are purely cosmetic.


----------



## skullbringer

aida was and will always be ****, but it's easy to grasp for normies, that's why it will survive. bclk bug alone is yikes and still present, so give up on them actually fixing their algo lol

and ofc latency on rpl dies is longer, because the ring is physically larger with 2 extra e core clusters. just like 10th gen got bigger latency compared to 9th gen when it got more cores.

more cores = longer ring = higher latency


----------



## Exilon

skullbringer said:


> aida was and will always be ****, but it's easy to grasp for normies, that's why it will survive. bclk bug alone is yikes and still present, so give up on them actually fixing their algo lol
> 
> and ofc latency on rpl dies is longer, because the ring is physically larger with 2 extra e core clusters. just like 10th gen got bigger latency compared to 9th gen when it got more cores.
> 
> more cores = longer ring = higher latency


Skylake getting fatter didn't really compensate with higher max ring clocks beyond 8th gen so L3 did get slower in absolute terms. In the case of 13th gen, rising clocks for L2 and ring compensated for the increase in cycles latency.

We really need a better popular tool than AIDA. Clamchowder's tool is neat but downloading it from github is going to turn people away.


----------



## cstkl1

i9 13900k Default llc3 0.25|1.1
Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0605
GSKILL 6600c34 @7600c36 1.4
SA offset 0.150, txvddq & mc auto


----------



## cstkl1

0701 i dont like it. tm5 bsods


----------



## pipes

is the z790 apex already available for purchase?


----------



## energie80

pipes said:


> is the z790 apex already available for purchase?


no


----------



## energie80

are gskill 6600 adie?


----------



## cstkl1

energie80 said:


> are gskill 6600 adie?


yes
new 6400 also are


----------



## energie80

thanks


----------



## pipes

energie80 said:


> no


I have not seen anything but you know the release date?


----------



## energie80

pipes said:


> I have not seen anything but you know the release date?


mid november


----------



## energie80

cstkl1 said:


> yes
> new 6400 also are


how do i check if they really are a die?


----------



## Chintz

energie80 said:


> how do i check if they really are a die?


Look at the label on the sticks and if they read "820A" it is a die.

For g.skill

Lot Code
-S830A = Micron 16Gbit A-Die 
-S82*A = Hynix 16Gbit A-Die
-S82*M = Hynix 16Gbit M-Die
-S810B = Samsung 16Gbit B-Die


----------



## energie80

damn they are S820M


----------



## Chintz

Very hard to read, but for me it looks like 820M


----------



## dev1ance

energie80 said:


> damn they are S820M
> View attachment 2578753


We all got baited by that one poster posting their A die kit

Other person who also bought from Amazon:








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Low voltage profile 7400C34 1.35v VDD 1.25v VDDQ Max temp: 34C




www.overclock.net


----------



## satinghostrider

energie80 said:


> damn they are S820M
> View attachment 2578753


GA2 would most likely be M Die. GX2 is the newest variant with A Die and this is now with G.skill 6400,6600 and other A Die variants. The S820M and S820A merely double confirms this.

GA2/S820M - M Die
GX2/S820A - A Die (LATEST VARIANT)


----------



## energie80

yes they are m die


----------



## IronAge

dev1ance said:


> We all got baited by that one poster posting their A die kit


i got A-Die Kit as well, sold TG 7200 for 500€, bought G.SKill for 350€.  (Apex 2021-11 crapping out, actually i would be good with my TG 6400C40 M-Die Kit)


----------



## Nizzen

dev1ance said:


> We all got baited by that one poster posting their A die kit
> 
> Other person who also bought from Amazon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Low voltage profile 7400C34 1.35v VDD 1.25v VDDQ Max temp: 34C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Shop in irland had the new batch of g.skill 6600 with a-die.


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Shop in irland had the new batch of g.skill 6600 with a-die.


Microcenter had it too.

I'm returning them today though..


----------



## Bexak

Nizzen said:


> Shop in irland had the new batch of g.skill 6600 with a-die.


MemoryC?


----------



## Carillo

dev1ance said:


> We all got baited by that one poster posting their A die kit
> 
> Other person who also bought from Amazon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Low voltage profile 7400C34 1.35v VDD 1.25v VDDQ Max temp: 34C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Mine is also A-die. Bought them of shelf


----------



## satinghostrider

Just curious if anyone whose gotten the A-Dies whose running it on 2022 Z690 Apex with 13900k?


----------



## Carillo

satinghostrider said:


> Just curious if anyone whose gotten the A-Dies whose running it on 2022 Z690 Apex with 13900k?


Yes. 8000 is no problem with watercooling


----------



## Spit051261

A die
Hynix


----------



## dev1ance

Talking about the 6600 GA2 variant (GA is specific to that Amazon seller which is likely a GSkill related distributor/reseller, GX is everywhere else outside of RacerSpeed). There was one post with 820A several pages back showing it being made in September 2022 as well.
EDIT: Here it is, showing A-die and GA








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. just not sure which batch. Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com Part# doesn't...




www.overclock.net








satinghostrider said:


> GA2 would most likely be M Die. GX2 is the newest variant with A Die and this is now with G.skill 6400,6600 and other A Die variants. The S820M and S820A merely double confirms this.
> 
> GA2/S820M - M Die
> GX2/S820A - A Die (LATEST VARIANT)


See above. All that matters is if it's 820A or 820M. GA is Amazon exclusive as a means to cut out mixed inventory.


----------



## Chintz

Since the last days im trying to get a 7200 stable setting with my G.Skill 6600 A-Die Kit. I gave up so far with the following settings with very loose subs and dont really know how to proceed.
Although it shows MemTestPro coverage no errors, game test crashed and Karhu gave errors quickly, y-cruncher passed though :>

Maybe its the 4 Dimm board (booting up 7600 though np), Bios, timings, Thermalright contact frame... !?

The Kit can boot also 7600 for example with actually reasonable subs and is benchstable, but not Karhu, TM5, games etc.
Board is Z790 Strix-E with a 13900K SP: 103 / 113 P-cores / 85 E-cores


----------



## bhav

Bexak said:


> MemoryC?


God I really need to stop looking at this website:






32GB G.Skill DDR4 PC4-35200 4400MHz Ripjaws V CL19 Dual Channel Kit (2x16GB) 1.50V


Buy 32GB G.Skill DDR4 PC4-35200 4400MHz Ripjaws V CL19 Dual Channel Kit (2x16GB) 1.50V online from MemoryC at low prices. Worldwide shipping, money back guarantee, in-stock guarantee!




www.memoryc.co.uk





DO NOT NEED DO NOT NEED DO NOT NEED WAIT IS THAT SAMSUNG B DIE? NOOOOO DO NOT NEED DO NOT NEED DO NOT NEED.


----------



## cstkl1

Chintz said:


> Since the last days im trying to get a 7200 stable setting with my G.Skill 6600 A-Die Kit. I gave up so far with the following settings and dont really know how to proceed.
> Although it shows MemTestPro coverage no errors, game test crashed and Karhu gave errors quickly, y-cruncher passed though :>
> 
> Maybe its the 4 Dimm board (booting up 7600 though np), Bios, timings, Thermalright contact frame... !?
> 
> The Kit can boot also 7600 for example with actually reasonable subs and is benchstable, but not Karhu, TM5 etc
> Board is Z790 Strix-E with a 13900K SP: 103 / 113 P-core 85 / E-Core
> 
> View attachment 2578771
> 
> View attachment 2578773
> 
> View attachment 2578774


try bios 0605 or 0701?


----------



## cstkl1

RaptorLake Resources


i will use this as a collection of test bioses/tools/info targeted towards Raptorlake + z69/790 NOTE for Z690: You must update ME on your Z690 to properly support raptorlake (if you are on dual bioses then you need to do this to both bioses) 1) d/l and install ME driver...



rog.asus.com


----------



## Spit051261

Just hit this with that RAM after 20 minutes playing ....on air too 
Just ran 1 stick though but pretty sure it should do much better when I finally get my 13900k delivered 
4318





Memory Frequency overclocking records @ HWBOT


Overclocking records




hwbot.org


----------



## Chintz

cstkl1 said:


> try bios 0605 or 0701?


Did it give better results for you? Which Bios version would you prefer?


----------



## cstkl1

Chintz said:


> Did it give better results for you? Which Bios version would you prefer?


for apex 0605 better for tm5 stability
0701 better for high clock training. 

do still need more testing


----------



## tps3443

newls1 said:


> Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Team T-Force Delta RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


I got mine last night!! XMP 7200 worked perfect on Unify-X.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know gskill 7200 7600 is a die?


----------



## affxct

Ok so this is my deduction. Fully my opinion, but feel free to agree/disagree. Whatever your kit was capable of is whatever your kit was capable of. The VDD2 scaling on your individual sample is what enables or prevents higher D5 data rates. I error’d at 80% with 7200C34/1.5V and I tried a bunch of combinations, but found that 7200 required around 1.6V to run, and that afforded me the ability to do C32 as well as a freebie. Reducing CAS and reducing VDD would not work in this scenario even though you might imagine that it would.

The 13700K IMC essentially observes better VDD2 scaling and better data rate scaling, but it can’t really magically reduce the requirements of the M-die ICs in this kit (unfortunately). It definitely would’ve been fun to do 7200C34 vs 7000C34 for an extra 30mV. I don’t particularly relish the idea of daily’ing 1.6 VDD.

SA required seemed to be slightly lower than my 12900K, at 1.2V. TX was identical at 1.4. This could be argued to be linked to my board and the ICs themselves being that the CPU behaviour seemed to be more of a translation rather than a different configuration or set of rules entirely.

TL;DR
SA - 1.25
TX - 1.4
VDD2 - 1.6 (Auto)
DRAM VDD - 1.605
DRAM VDDQ - 1.5 (Auto)
DRAM VPP - 1.8 (Auto)

7200 32-42-42-28-2T (secondaries and tertiaries in screenshot)

Memory tuning seems to not have changed much at all. That’s just my opinion though. 12900K did very similar settings but just capped at 7000C34 @ 1.47V/1.38V.


----------



## newls1

tps3443 said:


> I got mine last night!! XMP 7200 worked perfect on Unify-X.
> 
> View attachment 2578793
> View attachment 2578794


thats great to know, thank you. what bios you on?


----------



## newls1

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know gskill 7200 7600 is a die?


of course it is


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> i9 13900k Default llc3 0.25|1.1
> Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0605
> GSKILL 6600c34 @7600c36 1.4
> SA offset 0.150, txvddq & mc auto


nice.
what would you do if you have one error at ~64mins in tm5 1us 20cycles?


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> nice.
> what would you do if you have one error at ~64mins in tm5 1us 20cycles?


You know, I have the same kind of problem. Typically Test 15, one error in 30 cycles. Super weird. I figured it may be temp related? But 1usmus doesn't really heat the sticks up much..


----------



## asdkj1740

energie80 said:


> how do i check if they really are a die?


0a=hynix a die
0m=hynix m die
0b=garbage

micron a die is also "a", but if you cant distinguish micron stick and hynix stick i think you should not start ddr5 oc.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> nice.
> what would you do if you have one error at ~64mins in tm5 1us 20cycles?


i test consistency on multiple boots for training to see centering . its to test bios and check difference. see any skew adjustment can help

so this was just for ocn screenshot . ran it already many times. just no aida etc etc.


----------



## asdkj1740

tps3443 said:


> I got mine last night!! XMP 7200 worked perfect on Unify-X.
> 
> View attachment 2578793
> View attachment 2578794


the performance of this xmp profile out of the box is unreal, especially on asus mobos.


----------



## asdkj1740

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know gskill 7200 7600 is a die?


they can only be a die.


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> You know, I have the same kind of problem. Typically Test 15, one error in 30 cycles. Super weird. I figured it may be temp related? But 1usmus doesn't really heat the sticks up much..


i know that feel
that's why i recommend 1us with 30 cycles at least.
at least the spd temps look fine. it is strange...


----------



## affxct

I have the urge to attempt 7400 @ 1.65V but I dunno if I’m starting to lose my mind or not. I’m just curious if M-die can daily it.


----------



## Avacado

affxct said:


> I have the urge to attempt 7400 @ 1.65V but I dunno if I’m starting to lose my mind or not. I’m just curious if M-die can daily it.


I wouldn't be afraid to run 1.65v through M-Die with active cooling. I don't know about the daily though.


----------



## cstkl1

Avacado said:


> I wouldn't be afraid to run 1.65v through M-Die with active cooling. I don't know about the daily though.


it throttles. actually. hmm


----------



## affxct

Avacado said:


> I wouldn't be afraid to run 1.65v through M-Die with active cooling. I don't know about the daily though.


I intend to daily this 1.6V OC. I guess I could punch in my old 12900K 7000C34 values but like, I dunno. I just wasted 3 hours of my life for nothing then.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> I intend to daily this 1.6V OC. I guess I could punch in my old 12900K 7000C34 values but like, I dunno. I just wasted 3 hours of my life for nothing then.


The last 5 days of my life 😂


----------



## asdkj1740

Avacado said:


> I wouldn't be afraid to run 1.65v through M-Die with active cooling. I don't know about the daily though.


i am already afraid of running 1.5v on gskill m die or a die kits even with active cooling, a 120mm cooling fan is a joke on these kits.
when you also take rtx4090 into account...
is gskill working on a plastic cover to block/seal the gpu backplate cutout?


----------



## Avacado

affxct said:


> I intend to daily this 1.6V OC. I guess I could punch in my old 12900K 7000C34 values but like, I dunno. I just wasted 3 hours of my life for nothing then.


Meh. I probably would do 1.6v with cooling for a daily. Iv'e been running M-Die at 1.6v daily for a few months now while benching at 1.62v. Haven't really had a reason to be worried. Then again, I didn't pay for my kit, it was a review sample. I would say do what your budget can afford.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> The last 5 days of my life 😂


I honestly feel bad man. It’s a crap situation. Did you at least get a decent daily going?


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> i am already afraid of running 1.5v on gskill m die or a die kits even with active cooling, a 120mm cooling fan is a joke on these kits.
> when you also take rtx4090 into account...
> is gskill working on a plastic cover to block/seal the gpu backplate cutout?


Don’t use a case . In all seriousness, I wouldn’t buy G.Skill kits unless you plan on removing the spreader. Cooling is just not adequate at all.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> I honestly feel bad man. It’s a crap situation. Did you at least get a decent daily going?


Running the M-Die, trying to get 7000 stable. I've been testing out different ****. Nothing stable yet, but slowly making progress I guess?

Put the IceManCooler heatsinks on, and will put them under water at the end of November when I get back from work trip. Leave tomorrow for a few weeks..


----------



## affxct

Avacado said:


> Meh. I probably would do 1.6v with cooling for a daily. Iv'e been running M-Die at 1.6v daily for a few months now while benching at 1.62v. Haven't really had a reason to be worried. Then again, I didn't pay for my kit, it was a review sample. I would say do what your budget can afford.


This kit was 165, but I don’t want to kill it. Unfortunately I just can’t do 1.5-1.55 for 7200 even if I reduce certain timings. The data rate just seems to demand it. It might be wise to use my old 7000C34 1.47V OC, but it just feels underwhelming.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Don’t use a case . In all seriousness, I wouldn’t buy G.Skill kits unless you plan on removing the spreader. Cooling is just not adequate at all.


who told you i am using a case!
just listen to me gskill trident z5 cooling is unreal, RGB edition boost up spd temp around 5c more.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Running the M-Die, trying to get 7000 stable..
> 
> Put the IceManCooler heatsinks on, and will put them under water at the end of November when I get back from work trip. Leave tomorrow for a few weeks..


It might be doable. I’m not 100% sure if maybe the U-X just isn’t reliable for 7000.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> who told you i am using a case!
> just listen to me gskill trident z5 cooling is unreal, RGB edition boost up spd temp around 5c more.


Out of curiosity what are your memory stress test temps?


----------



## SuperMumrik

affxct said:


> I have the urge to attempt 7400 @ 1.65V but I dunno if I’m starting to lose my mind or not. I’m just curious if M-die can daily it.


7400 is very hard. I am semi stable at 7300 on my m-dies.
I've been running 1.65 with water cooling since feb/march without any issues so I would not worry


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> i am already afraid of running 1.5v on gskill m die or a die kits even with active cooling, a 120mm cooling fan is a joke on these kits.
> when you also take rtx4090 into account...
> is gskill working on a plastic cover to block/seal the gpu backplate cutout?


long long long ago i did raise the question before it was released. 
then again i went 1st min when i saw it on ram block.


----------



## tps3443

newls1 said:


> thats great to know, thank you. what bios you on?


Lastest Unify-X bios. Great Hynix A-Die memory! Amazing bandwidth so far. Still a lot of tuning to do though.


----------



## asdkj1740

for those who have trouble with 13900k, hicookie does suggest keep gaps between vccsa and txvddq.


----------



## affxct

SuperMumrik said:


> 7400 is very hard. I am semi stable at 7300 on my m-dies.
> I've been running 1.65 with water cooling since feb/march without any issues so I would not worry


Water cooling would probably be a big factor though. I’m only on a 120mm @ 1400 RPM unfortunately. It’s been doing a good job but I can imagine the cooler they stay the higher I can run them.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> Water cooling would probably be a big factor though. I’m only on a 120mm @ 1400 RPM unfortunately. It’s been doing a good job but I can imagine the cooler they stay the higher I can run them.


my a12x25 at 2000rpm cant tame the beast(gskill trident z5 rgb).


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> my a12x25 at 2000rpm cant tame the beast(gskill trident z5 rgb).


They look super good (can’t lie), but man oh man did G.Skill not think about what they were selling. Like I dunno if they just expected people to run XMP or what. Even the 6400 and 6600 kits at 1.4V are mega sus with no cooling and those heat spreaders.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> They look super good (can’t lie), but man oh man did G.Skill not think about what they were selling. Like I dunno if they just expected people to run XMP or what. Even the 6400 and 6600 kits at 1.4V are mega sus with no cooling and those heat spreaders.


asus learns, asus changes , irrespective of whether they have ever lied.
gskill, never learns, never cares.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> asus learns, asus changes , irrespective of whether they have ever lied.
> gskill, never learns, never cares.


I think ASUS would be sacrificing too much income if they chose to be ignorant. They make so much money selling to us and to the average PC/phone/monitor user that letting their name get tarnished would not be an option. It’s so funny that most people will never even know what they did to the enthusiast community. Although it sounds kinda lame when I put it that way.


----------



## QXE

asdkj1740 said:


> for those who have trouble with 13900k, hicookie does suggest keep gaps between vccsa and txvddq.


Who the hell is running VCCSA = VDDQTX???????!!!!! TX is almost always quite a bit higher.


----------



## acoustic

@affxct hey, just want to thank you for your info on your Kingston kit. I'm further in Karhu than I've ever been, and the result was dropping DRAM VDDQ further than I ever thought would make sense.

I kept getting errors at 3000-4000% in Karhu regardless of voltage combo. I kept thinking it was CPU VDDQ TX or CPU VDD2 related, or temp related. I decided to just drop DRAM VDDQ continuously to see what happens..

Well I'm at 5700% and counting. 1.480v VDD, 1.385v VDDQ. wow.

also as a side note.. I actually error'd faster at 1.390v VDDQ than I did at 1.395v VDDQ, so I understand why I never continued to drop it. If 1.390v was worse than 1.395v, why would I keep going further down? lol

edit: 10K stable!! You the man!


----------



## asdkj1740

QXE said:


> Who the hell is running VCCSA = VDDQTX???????!!!!! TX is almost always quite a bit higher.


asus mobos do love low sa, but that is not the case on msi / gigabyte mobo.


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> Who the hell is running VCCSA = VDDQTX???????!!!!! TX is almost always quite a bit higher.


I'm running 1.4 QTX, and if I use Auto SA on Apex, it's 1.28SA on like 8000 memory. 1.15 SA on Asus boards is enough for 7800-8000mhz


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> asus mobos do love low sa, but that is not the case on msi / gigabyte mobo.


Make sense since you mentioned _hicookie_ . The Gigabyte legend.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> I think ASUS would be sacrificing too much income if they chose to be ignorant. They make so much money selling to us and to the average PC/phone/monitor user that letting their name get tarnished would not be an option. It’s so funny that most people will never even know what they did to the enthusiast community. Although it sounds kinda lame when I put it that way.


but you guys did banish asus from this thread...


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> I'm running 1.4 QTX, and if I use Auto SA on Apex, it's 1.28SA on like 8000 memory. 1.15 SA on Asus boards is enough for 7800-8000mhz


iirc the auto rule of vccsa on gigabyte z690 and msi z690 is like auto ~1.4v when ddr5 oc is detected.


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> iirc the auto rule of vccsa on gigabyte z690 and msi z690 is like auto ~1.4v when ddr5 oc is detected.


Unify-X auto goes to 1.30v up to 7400. Never tested higher (couldn't get it to post)


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> I think ASUS would be sacrificing too much income if they chose to be ignorant. They make so much money selling to us and to the average PC/phone/monitor user that letting their name get tarnished would not be an option. It’s so funny that most people will never even know what they did to the enthusiast community. Although it sounds kinda lame when I put it that way.


I feel like there are two groups within ASUS.

One group is just "we will make the best damn products because we want to be the best"
One group is then "we will make the most profit off of our products"

Unfortunately it seems group 2 is in charge of group 1. The issue with the z690 Apex is a great example. Why did it take a forum post that got deleted acknowledging the boards were defective? Why didn't they send out replacements to everyone who got bad boards, immediately, when they knew there were issues. The team ACK'd the issue in the forum post, and then the corporate lords made them delete it (nothing to see here carry on).

Many others including myself had issues with the Rampage IV Black edition motherboard as well. After thousands of forum pages here we figured out they had some issues with black screening under edge cases. Another case where ASUS did not fall on it's sword and make it right for motherboard customers.

So I am happy to buy ASUS video cards because their corporate arm has not f'ed over their we-make-the-best-GPU arm like the corporate arm of motherboards did. I will not buy ASUS motherboards though until I see one or two full generations that dont have entire forums full of people complaining over the QC.


----------



## ihog6hog

Bios 0701 Asus Z790 from RaptorLake Resources

I can run 7800C38 with 1.305v (Bios 1.320v)

setting main cl 38-48-48-76 and vdd/vddq 1.320v , another are auto


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> I feel like there are two groups within ASUS.
> 
> One group is just "we will make the best damn products because we want to be the best"
> One group is then "we will make the most profit off of our products"
> 
> Unfortunately it seems group 2 is in charge of group 1. The issue with the z690 Apex is a great example. Why did it take a forum post that got deleted acknowledging the boards were defective? Why didn't they send out replacements to everyone who got bad boards, immediately, when they knew there were issues. The team ACK'd the issue in the forum post, and then the corporate lords made them delete it (nothing to see here carry on).
> 
> Many others including myself had issues with the Rampage IV Black edition motherboard as well. After thousands of forum pages here we figured out they had some issues with black screening under edge cases. Another case where ASUS did not fall on it's sword and make it right for motherboard customers.
> 
> So I am happy to buy ASUS video cards because their corporate arm has not f'ed over their we-make-the-best-GPU arm like the corporate arm of motherboards did. I will not buy ASUS motherboards though until I see one or two full generations that dont have entire forums full of people complaining over the QC.


Asus corporate are a weird bunch


----------



## affxct

ihog6hog said:


> Bios 0701 Asus Z790 from RaptorLake Resources
> 
> I can run 7800C38 with 1.305v (Bios 1.320v)
> View attachment 2578853


This isn’t for daily right?


----------



## asdkj1740

ihog6hog said:


> Bios 0701 Asus Z790 from RaptorLake Resources
> 
> I can run 7800C38 with 1.305v (Bios 1.320v)
> 
> setting main cl 38-48-48-76 and vdd/vddq 1.320v , another are auto
> View attachment 2578853


for a 6 layers mobo this is awesome.


----------



## J_Lab4645

affxct said:


> They look super good (can’t lie), but man oh man did G.Skill not think about what they were selling. Like I dunno if they just expected people to run XMP or what. Even the 6400 and 6600 kits at 1.4V are mega sus with no cooling and those heat spreaders.


I just have to laugh at this because as an owner of 'said' ram...you are absolutely spot on! ........but I've posted before- 5min fix: Noctua 92mm + Velcro adhesive strips.
At 80% fan speed, Dimms will stay below 48C running whatever mem test you throw at them. Albeit I do have a custom loop so no Air-cooled GPU dumping hot Hawaiian air into the case.


----------



## affxct

J_Lab4645 said:


> I just have to laugh at this because as an owner of 'said' ram...you are absolutely spot on! ........but I've posted before- 5min fix: Noctua 92mm + Velcro adhesive strips.
> At 80% fan speed, Dimms will stay below 48C running whatever mem test you throw at them. Albeit I do have a custom loop so no Air-cooled GPU dumping hot Hawaiian air into the case.
> View attachment 2578882


48c max is insanely good actually. That's about what my FURY BEAST sticks were hitting in HCI today because I was testing during mid afternoon. Granted I was at 1.6V, but 48c is definitely a lot better than I expected on the Z5s.


----------



## bigfootnz

I've managed with Unify-X, 13900k and M-die 7000C32 stable, at the moment without tuned 2nd and 3rd timings. With 12900k max was 6800C30. Next stop is 7200C32.















Voltages VDDQ CPU 1.39, VDD/VDDQ 1.51, SA 1.15 and VDD2 1.4


----------



## newls1

we are using pretty close to the same voltages for our mem settings and just like you, I couldnt top 6800 with my 12900KS, but this 13900K upon first boot 7000 worked and is good so far but havent even tried 7200 yet. Im too happy with 7000 and nervous that my brain will be stuck on 7200 if i try it and it wont be stable with acceptable voltages... so im trying my best to talk myself out of even trying 7200.


----------



## bigfootnz

newls1 said:


> we are using pretty close to the same voltages for our mem settings and just like you, I couldnt top 6800 with my 12900KS, but this 13900K upon first boot 7000 worked and is good so far but havent even tried 7200 yet. Im too happy with 7000 and nervous that my brain will be stuck on 7200 if i try it and it wont be stable with acceptable voltages... so im trying my best to talk myself out of even trying 7200.


How you can resist 7200? I do not want even to try 2nd and 3rd timings, tonight will be fight with 7200


----------



## Agent-A01

asdkj1740 said:


> for a 6 layers mobo this is awesome.


How many layers is hero?


----------



## newls1

bigfootnz said:


> How you can resist 7200? I do not want even to try 2nd and 3rd timings, tonight will be fight with 7200


cause im a little OCD... if i try 7200 and its not stable, ill spend the next 4746 hours fiddling trying to make it work only to come to the conclusion that it will take 1.60+ volts to stabilize and the crappy heatsinks on the 6400 gskillz5's are garbage and i just wont be able to stabilize it. thenill get mad and sell all my stuff again LOL. Now you see why i dont want to try 7200!!


----------



## opt33

Teamgroup 7200 at 7400c34 are ~9c lower temps than same final vcolor settings I tried, plus lower auto and lower capable trfc2 than 7200 vcolors. Still cant boot 7600 but that limit is my unifyx. 

Since I bought teamgroup, may as well try, but gaming will likely still CTD even if runs karhu few hours. Also the hard wall after 7400 is annoying.

When I get a z790 mobo, sticking with teamgroup for temps alone.


----------



## cstkl1

Agent-A01 said:


> How many layers is hero?


afaik two gen 5 pcie needs to be 8.


----------



## jeiselramos

z390e said:


> I feel like there are two groups within ASUS.
> 
> One group is just "we will make the best damn products because we want to be the best"
> One group is then "we will make the most profit off of our products"
> 
> Unfortunately it seems group 2 is in charge of group 1. The issue with the z690 Apex is a great example. Why did it take a forum post that got deleted acknowledging the boards were defective? Why didn't they send out replacements to everyone who got bad boards, immediately, when they knew there were issues. The team ACK'd the issue in the forum post, and then the corporate lords made them delete it (nothing to see here carry on).
> 
> Many others including myself had issues with the Rampage IV Black edition motherboard as well. After thousands of forum pages here we figured out they had some issues with black screening under edge cases. Another case where ASUS did not fall on it's sword and make it right for motherboard customers.
> 
> So I am happy to buy ASUS video cards because their corporate arm has not f'ed over their we-make-the-best-GPU arm like the corporate arm of motherboards did. I will not buy ASUS motherboards though until I see one or two full generations that dont have entire forums full of people complaining over the QC.


The odd thing now is this, on my z690 apex i couldn't stabilize more than 6200c28 1T, now I'm testing with 13900K same ram and it's doing 6666c34 2T 1.35 flawlessly 🤷‍♂️


----------



## newls1

jeiselramos said:


> The odd thing now is this, on my z690 apex i couldn't stabilize more than 6200c28 1T, now I'm testing with 13900K same ram and it's doing 6666c34 2T 1.35 flawlessly 🤷‍♂️


thats still terrible.... trash that board and move on to another 2 dimmer


----------



## asdkj1740

Agent-A01 said:


> How many layers is hero?


probably eight.
asus mobos have no indicator on PCB showing how many layers are used. from time to time asus may list how many layers are used for some models on their product page.


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> The odd thing now is this, on my z690 apex i couldn't stabilize more than 6200c28 1T, now I'm testing with 13900K same ram and it's doing 6666c34 2T 1.35 flawlessly 🤷‍♂️


imc mca weaker on previous cpu my bet


----------



## jeiselramos

newls1 said:


> thats still terrible.... trash that board and move on to another 2 dimmer


I see you didn't check my signature, i have a z690 unify X but I wanted to try the Apex again first


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> I see you didn't check my signature, i have a z690 unify X but I wanted to try the Apex again first


i saw. i meant it wasnt apex bios that changed or anything

the 13900k u have now mca stronger than previous cpu


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> i saw. i meant it wasnt apex bios that changed or anything
> 
> the 13900k u have now mca stronger than previous cpu


Yep, but now I've a doubt.
how did I stabilize 6800 with the unify x (same 12900k) and not with the apex? Does the Apex do more aggressive training?


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> Yep, but now I've a doubt.
> how did I stabilize 6800 with the unify x (same 12900k) and not with the apex? Does the Apex do more aggressive training?


based that 22 > 21 guess engineering design


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> based that 22 > 21 guess engineering design


so 22 Apex just have less aggressive training


----------



## bigfootnz

OK, now I've done 7200C32 with same voltages VDDQ CPU 1.39, VDD/VDDQ 1.51, SA 1.15 and VDD2 1.4, like 7000C32 and still not tuned 2nd and 3rd timings.























Now is question should I try 7400 with M-die and z690 or try to tighten 7200C32? But 7400 is really tempting


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> so 22 Apex just have less aggressive training


same bios. its engineering diff


----------



## newls1

WHat is about average OC I can typically get from this set of A Die G.Skills... 









G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-7200 PC5-57600 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center


Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...




www.microcenter.com





THink something like 7400-7600 @ CL34 is obtainable? And bigger question is do you think i might notice a difference in gaming coming from 7000 CL32 ? My local MC has them in stock but only 1 set. Should I reserve them or wait for the 7600mhz set?


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE & Z790 HERO DDR5-8000MHZ MEMTEST


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

newls1 said:


> WHat is about average OC I can typically get from this set of A Die G.Skills...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-7200 PC5-57600 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THink something like 7400-7600 @ CL34 is obtainable? And bigger question is do you think i might notice a difference in gaming coming from 7000 CL32 ? My local MC has them in stock but only 1 set. Should I reserve them or wait for the 7600mhz set?


I saw white 7600 set last night but decide to wait for 8000 set.


----------



## acoustic

@affxct Since dropping DRAM VDDQ down, I've become addicted. Just how low can I take it and have stability, at 1.480v DRAM VDD? I wanted to drop my CPU VDDQ TX down as well, and at the previous settings that were stable, I was getting errors ~600% Karhu if I lowered CPU VDDQ TX down. I decided to drop DRAM VDDQ down even further, since I had DRAM VDDQ higher than CPU VDDQ TX, and I wondered if that was maybe causing an issue.. so tried this batch of settings:

SA: 1.190v
CPU VDDQ TX: 1.365v
CPU VDD2: 1.40v
DRAM VDD: 1.480v
DRAM VDDQ: 1.350v

Karhu 28170% before 1 error, but I expect heat related as the heat in the house turned on in the early morning, and the basement gets very warm. OK with that.

TM5 1usmus 30cycle stable
TM5 ABSOLUT stable

What the hell.. lol


----------



## asdkj1740

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I saw white 7600 set last night but decide to wait for 8000 set.


why not teamgroup delta then


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> same bios. its engineering diff


you dont say..............

lmao.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> @affxct Since dropping DRAM VDDQ down, I've become addicted. Just how low can I take it and have stability, at 1.480v DRAM VDD? I wanted to drop my CPU VDDQ TX down as well, and at the previous settings that were stable, I was getting errors ~600% Karhu if I lowered CPU VDDQ TX down. I decided to drop DRAM VDDQ down even further, since I had DRAM VDDQ higher than CPU VDDQ TX, and I wondered if that was maybe causing an issue.. so tried this batch of settings:
> 
> SA: 1.190v
> CPU VDDQ TX: 1.365v
> CPU VDD2: 1.40v
> DRAM VDD: 1.480v
> DRAM VDDQ: 1.350v
> 
> Karhu 28170% before 1 error, but I expect heat related as the heat in the house turned on in the early morning, and the basement gets very warm. OK with that.
> 
> TM5 1usmus 30cycle stable
> TM5 ABSOLUT stable
> 
> What the hell.. lol


No way, so you’re telling me it’s sorted finally?


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> No way, so you’re telling me it’s sorted finally?


Yep. Even got down to 32-42-42 same settings. Dropping DRAM VDDQ was a big help it seems.


It's just insane .. going down would cause more errors, but if you drop PAST that.. suddenly I gained stability. Craziness.


----------



## SuperMumrik

This will be interesting 🤩


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> WHat is about average OC I can typically get from this set of A Die G.Skills...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-7200 PC5-57600 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THink something like 7400-7600 @ CL34 is obtainable? And bigger question is do you think i might notice a difference in gaming coming from 7000 CL32 ? My local MC has them in stock but only 1 set. Should I reserve them or wait for the 7600mhz set?


anyone?


----------



## Raphie

acoustic said:


> Yep. Even got down to 32-42-42 same settings. Dropping DRAM VDDQ was a big help it seems.
> 
> 
> It's just insane .. going down would cause more errors, but if you drop PAST that.. suddenly I gained stability. Craziness.


So what's the final timings and VDD(Q) then? and this is Karhu 10K% coverage stable? You've got Kingston no?


----------



## acoustic

Raphie said:


> So what's the final timings and VDD(Q) then? and this is Karhu 10K% coverage stable? You've got Kingston no?


@don1376 this is for you too.

Yes, Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 kit.

Still testing as I slowly tighten things up.

7000
32-42-42-42
488-388 tRFC/tRFCpb
65/66 RTL

These aren't as tight as they can go, I'm still in testing phase, but this is stable. I'm now trying 32-41-41-41. 32-40-40 likely needs more VDD, got an error at 580% Karhu. I'm sticking with 1.480v VDD until I put the waterblock on next month.. then I'll attempt to crank the voltage.

SA: 1.190v
CPU VDDQ TX: 1.365v
CPU VDD2: 1.40v
DRAM VDD: 1.480v
DRAM VDDQ: 1.350v

Karhu 28k stable, TM5 1Usmus 30cycle stable, TM5 ABSOLUT stable. I had an error at 28300% in Karhu, but I believe it's temp related as my PC sits close to the ceiling vent and the heat turned on. Top of the case is intake so it was blowing very warm air on the sticks and pushed the temps out of control.

Secondary and tertiary are still on auto as I'm trying to find the floor for these sticks at 1.480v VDD.

DRAM training is set to Optimized (for the tighter RTL), DCC Optimize enabled, and DIMM DFE Training enabled.


----------



## dante`afk

has anyone seen and can post some tweaked and stable A-DIE settings on the unifyX?

could use a hand to get started, limited time here to figure everything out myself.


----------



## z390e

newls1 said:


> anyone?


those launched in like the last week I bet maybe 20 people total have them, give it a week or two


----------



## asdkj1740

z390e said:


> those launched in like the last week I bet maybe 20 people total have them, give it a week or two


it has been shipped to retailers in asia started from almost two weeks before.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Yep. Even got down to 32-42-42 same settings. Dropping DRAM VDDQ was a big help it seems.
> 
> 
> It's just insane .. going down would cause more errors, but if you drop PAST that.. suddenly I gained stability. Craziness.


My Dark saved me in that regard. Leaving DRAM VDDQ at auto taught me what kind of a gap my kit wanted. It’s so weird. It’s almost unexplainable.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> My Dark saved me in that regard. Leaving DRAM VDDQ at auto taught me what kind of a gap my kit wanted. It’s so weird. It’s almost unexplainable.


It's called Luumi and KINGPIN putting well designed training profiles into the board so it knows what to do. That's why the DARK is so damn good!


----------



## SuperMumrik

Time to test G.Skill A-die 🙈


----------



## newls1

SuperMumrik said:


> Time to test G.Skill A-die 🙈
> View attachment 2579116


im waiting!


----------



## SuperMumrik

newls1 said:


> im waiting!


It will train auto subs at least


----------



## newls1

SuperMumrik said:


> It will train auto subs at least
> View attachment 2579120


does it need 1.6v for 8000? what timings and voltages do you need for.... lets say 74-7600?


----------



## SuperMumrik

newls1 said:


> does it need 1.6v for 8000? what timings and voltages do you need for.... lets say 74-7600?


I have no idea, it's the very first boot 🤣


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> does it need 1.6v for 8000? what timings and voltages do you need for.... lets say 74-7600?


He's using an APEX. What he uses won't be comparable since you're on a Unify-X.

I had the A-Die kit and returned them because the Unify-X is simply not going to handle high enough frequency to justify the looser timings.. also, with the Unify-X and it's .. "limitations" .. it typically takes higher voltage for the same settings an APEX or DARK will need. Because of that, these high frequency 1.60v+ VDD settings don't work too well with the Unify-X.

My Unify-X was hitting a wall at 7400, and I couldn't get it stable. 7200 was stable with loose settings. This is with the GSkill A-Die kit that he and others (cstkl1, etc) are using above.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> It's called Luumi and KINGPIN putting well designed training profiles into the board so it knows what to do. That's why the DARK is so damn good!


 The freaky thing is my previous kit matched the two. This kit needed a gap and the gap exists at auto. You can literally observe the RAM fluctuate the 90mV gap in HWINFO. I’m wondering if it’s something to do with the PCB Kingston is using or something like that. It can’t be a coincidence that your Kingston kit also needs a gap between the two when OCing.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> The freaky thing is my previous kit matched the two. This kit needed a gap and the gap exists at auto. You can literally observe the RAM fluctuate the 90mV gap in HWINFO. I’m wondering if it’s something to do with the PCB Kingston is using or something like that. It can’t be a coincidence that your Kingston kit also needs a gap between the two when OCing.


I asked about that fluctuation and apparently it's just a reporting error with the Richtek PMIC. Those large transient drops aren't actually occuring.


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> He's using an APEX. What he uses won't be comparable since you're on a Unify-X.
> 
> I had the A-Die kit and returned them because the Unify-X is simply not going to handle high enough frequency to justify the looser timings.. also, with the Unify-X and it's .. "limitations" .. it typically takes higher voltage for the same settings an APEX or DARK will need. Because of that, these high frequency 1.60v+ VDD settings don't work too well with the Unify-X.
> 
> My Unify-X was hitting a wall at 7400, and I couldn't get it stable. 7200 was stable with loose settings. This is with the GSkill A-Die kit that he and others (cstkl1, etc) are using above.


so would you suggest I just save my 400$ and stick with my M-Die @ 7000 CL32 since its working well?


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I asked about that fluctuation and apparently it's just a reporting error with the Richtek PMIC. Those large transient drops aren't actually occuring.


No I mean like the consistent difference. Like even what you’d see if you head to BIOS (in the Dark BIOS). I don’t mean those weird fluctuations. Those occur even more so on the Anpec.


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> so would you suggest I just save my 400$ and stick with my M-Die @ 7000 CL32 since its working well?


100% yes. Try tightening up sub/tertiary timings further if you haven't.



affxct said:


> No I mean like the consistent difference. Like even what you’d see if you head to BIOS (in the Dark BIOS). I don’t mean those weird fluctuations. Those occur even more so on the Anpec.


Hmm. If I run "AUTO", DRAM VDD and VDDQ match each other on the Unify-X.

I wonder if it's the Richtek PMIC that prefers the low VDDQ voltage, and that's why other using the Renesas don't see this behavior, or typically run their VDDQ only 0.010v below VDD.


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> 100% yes. Try tightening up sub/tertiary timings further if you haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. If I run "AUTO", DRAM VDD and VDDQ match each other on the Unify-X.
> 
> I wonder if it's the Richtek PMIC that prefers the low VDDQ voltage, and that's why other using the Renesas don't see this behavior, or typically run their VDDQ only 0.010v below VDD.


Its tweaked to the max sir...


----------



## acoustic

Slowly tightening up secondary/tertiary.

Z690 Unify-X A81U4
13900K
Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 w/ IceManCooler heatsinks (no waterblock, no active cooling)

TM5/Karhu stable


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Slowly tightening up secondary/tertiary.
> 
> Z690 Unify-X A81U4
> 13900K
> Kingston Renegade 6400CL32 w/ IceManCooler heatsinks (no waterblock, no active cooling)
> 
> TM5/Karhu stable
> 
> View attachment 2579128


get a new mobo.
z790 strix f can do 7800mhz...


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> get a new mobo.
> z790 strix f can do 7800mhz...


Not buying a new mobo just to run A-Die. The Kingston kit is M-Die. I'm fine with 7000, and I think I can get 7200 stable with what I've learned over the last ~2 days.

I returned the A-Die kit since my Unify-X won't post above 7600.


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> Not buying a new mobo just to run A-Die. The Kingston kit is M-Die. I'm fine with 7000, and I think I can get 7200 stable with what I've learned over the last ~2 days.
> 
> I returned the A-Die kit since my Unify-X won't post above 7600.


you should have bought a new z790 and kept the a die.

btw
it is said z790 two dimms mobo (with 13th gen cpu) can do 7600 for m die.


----------



## SoldierRBT

13900K 5.6/4.4/4.9 1.177v vr out - 7400C34 Memory on air.


----------



## asdkj1740

SoldierRBT said:


> 13900K 5.6/4.4/4.9 1.177v vr out - 7400C34 Memory on air.
> View attachment 2579129


what kit is this


----------



## SoldierRBT

asdkj1740 said:


> what kit is this


6800C38 Oloy 1.45v


----------



## asdkj1740

SoldierRBT said:


> 6800C38 Oloy 1.45v


a die or m die ?


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> you should have bought a new z790 and kept the a die.
> 
> btw
> it is said z790 two dimms mobo can do 7600 for m die.


If you buy me a Z790 DARK or APEX, I'll go buy some fresh A-Die. Otherwise, it's just not worth the expense for minimal gains. I love memory OCing, but at some point enough is enough.


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> If you buy me a Z790 DARK or APEX, I'll go buy some fresh A-Die. Otherwise, it's just not worth the expense for minimal gains. I love memory OCing, but at some point enough is enough.


it is sad to see you having unify x but not getting what you deserved.
i have unify x i know that feel 


sulalin is marching to us.


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> it is sad to see you having unify x but not getting what you deserved.
> i have unify x i know that feel
> 
> 
> sulalin is marching to us.


It does suck, but hey. I should have bought a Z690 DARK when they were on sale, but my Z690 TUF D4 died right before that sale, and with all the issues of the APEX (and impossible to find) the Unify-X was the only board really in my sights.

It's not a bad board, it just has it's quirks. Considering how much less expensive it is compared to the competing boards, I guess it makes sense it would have some shortcomings in comparison.

I'm ok with it! I'm running 4K, truthfully I'm not getting much out of these CPU upgrades.. I just love tweaking


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> It does suck, but hey. I should have bought a Z690 DARK when they were on sale, but my Z690 TUF D4 died right before that sale, and with all the issues of the APEX (and impossible to find) the Unify-X was the only board really in my sights.
> 
> It's not a bad board, it just has it's quirks. Considering how much less expensive it is compared to the competing boards, I guess it makes sense it would have some shortcomings in comparison.
> 
> I'm ok with it! I'm running 4K, truthfully I'm not getting much out of these CPU upgrades.. I just love tweaking


very well said! I love my Unify X and the performance from 7000MT/s is just fine for my needs and im sure I can get her higher if I tried


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> anyone?


I have seen a lot of variation, for some A die are easy to get running stable(even on same MB) and for others nothing seems to work.

I have set of the v color 7200 and I havent been able to get anything to pass Karhu or be repeatable stable for y cruncher at high clocks. I have some Team Group 7200 and Gskill A 7600 die coming to test so ill see if it is me, the sticks, MB or what 

Isnt @QXE on Unify X and running 7800 or 8000 on A die. I think I saw him post some screenshots on Discord.


----------



## newls1

bscool said:


> I have seen a lot of variation, for some A die are easy to get running stable(even on same MB) and for others nothing seems to work.
> 
> I have set of the v color 7200 and I havent been able to get anything to pass Karhu or be repeatable stable for y cruncher at high clocks. I have some Team Group 7200 and Gskill A 7600 die coming to test so ill see if it is me, the sticks, MB or what
> 
> Isnt @QXE on Unify X and running 7800 or 8000 on A die. I think I saw him post some screenshots on Discord.


thank you for the heads up. I shall sit tight with my m-die @ 7000+ and tight timings then. you and a few others just saved me a 400$ purchase!!!


----------



## opt33

bscool said:


> I have seen a lot of variation, for some A die are easy to get running stable(even on same MB) and for others nothing seems to work.
> 
> I have set of the v color 7200 and I havent been able to get anything to pass Karhu or be repeatable stable for y cruncher at high clocks. I have some Team Group 7200 and Gskill A 7600 die coming to test so ill see if it is me, the sticks, MB or what
> 
> Isnt @QXE on Unify X and running 7800 or 8000 on A die. I saw him post some screenshots on Discord.


I bet teamgroup works better, vcolor seems poorly binned/tested. Interested to see what gskills do.


----------



## ViTosS

bscool said:


> I think I saw him post some screenshots on Discord.


Can I get a link to that Discord? Thanks.


----------



## bscool

ViTosS said:


> Can I get a link to that Discord? Thanks.


One is private and the other you need to have hwbot account Join the HWBOT Discord Server!

I dont remember which he posted it in, I think both but discord is a pain to search.


----------



## acoustic

bscool said:


> One is private and the other you need to have hwbot account Join the HWBOT Discord Server!
> 
> I dont remember which he posted it in, I think both but discord is a pain to search.


Idk who I gotta talk to for the private discord 👹


----------



## bscool

acoustic said:


> Idk who I gotta talk to for the private discord 👹


Just join the hwbot one pretty much all the same guys go there.

I dont post enough in the other one to feel like it is my place to invite anyone.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can someone compare 7000c32 vs 8000c32 in games? I want to see how many more fps we get. Thanks.


----------



## ViTosS

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone compare 7000c32 vs 8000c32 in games? I want to see how many more fps we get. Thanks.


Would like to see some SOTTR benchmark on 8000C32 too and 13900k, I think it can easily pass 400fps


----------



## asdkj1740

why the xmp profile of 7600mhz has vdd2/vimc/cpu vdd set to 1.1v only?
that r&d guy must be a fan of asus mobo.










thats why i think losing shamino here is a total loss to all of us.
lots of non asus users have been learning from shamino here for years.
it is these guys who make overclock.net shine.


----------



## asdkj1740

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone compare 7000c32 vs 8000c32 in games? I want to see how many more fps we get. Thanks.


i dont mind testing them for you as long as you would provide it all for me


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Yep. Even got down to 32-42-42 same settings. Dropping DRAM VDDQ was a big help it seems.
> 
> 
> It's just insane .. going down would cause more errors, but if you drop PAST that.. suddenly I gained stability. Craziness.


btw


----------



## 2500k_2

Not bad for a $350 board


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> btw
> 
> View attachment 2579184


ASUS seems to take way less SA voltage than other boards. Very nice my friend!


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> ASUS seems to take way less SA voltage than other boards. Very nice my friend!


0701/2 uses a way diff tuning 

recommended.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> 0701/2 uses a way diff tuning from my check on skews.
> 
> recommended.


Have you felt like ODT tuning is making a big difference for you? Or letting the board train ODT/Skew?


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Have you felt like ODT tuning is making a big difference for you? Or letting the board train ODT/Skew?


odt skews dude. the ones in the bios are not fully open. 

u can only use timings/clock/voltage based on your chipset/imc


----------



## cstkl1

also @acoustic either **** diff bios or
try mode 1/2 sometimes fae finds another interesting narrow tuning he will put it there.


----------



## cstkl1

uik why is "use" end up bad word 🤔


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone compare 7000c32 vs 8000c32 in games? I want to see how many more fps we get. Thanks.


Pretty good min fps on cpu Game 
This is 8000c32 with 13900kf @ 5800 all core. 47 E cores and 49 ring.

It is possible to get more fps with all the "tricks".


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> also @acoustic either **** diff bios or
> try mode 1/2 sometimes fae finds another interesting narrow tuning he will put it there.


Appreciate your advice as always


----------



## acoustic

What kind of thermal pads are you guys using on your DIMM sticks? I ordered some Thermalright Oddessy 2 1mm and 0.5mm for my IceManCooler heatsinks. I'll also use it for the contact between the sticks and waterblock.. kinda excited to see how the temps will look with water.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> What kind of thermal pads are you guys using on your DIMM sticks? I ordered some Thermalright Oddessy 2 1mm and 0.5mm for my IceManCooler heatsinks. I'll also use it for the contact between the sticks and waterblock.. kinda excited to see how the temps will look with water.


kryo extreme. 💪💪💪💪💪


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> kryo extreme. 💪💪💪💪💪


Just straight thermal paste on the mem chips and PMIC? Hmm.. I have KingpinX ..


----------



## snakeeyes111

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2579185
> 
> Not bad for a $350 board


92.4MB/s coveragespeed?


----------



## cstkl1

snakeeyes111 said:


> 92.4MB/s coveragespeed?


some ocers bro
suddenly can became stupid cannot post hwinfo
instead of posting coretemp / task manager.

suddenly

always every year 

suddenly
🤣


----------



## cstkl1

i need to search here when da last time ppl use core temp. suddenly its trending

suddenly


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

asdkj1740 said:


> why the xmp profile of 7600mhz has vdd2/vimc/cpu vdd set to 1.1v only?
> that r&d guy must be a fan of asus mobo.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2579178
> 
> thats why i think losing shamino here is a total loss to all of us.
> lots of non asus users have been learning from shamino here for years.
> it is these guys who make overclock.net shine.


loosing shamino ? He was online today ? Did i miss something


----------



## cstkl1

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> loosing shamino ? He was online today ? Did i miss something


earlier in da year issue i think ppl were kinda rude and kept harassing him. not sure.


----------



## acoustic

There were a select few who were having issues and kept spamming him/tagging him in posts because they were doing ridiculous stuff like 4 sticks with two mismatched kits, or the general APEX 2021 issues.

Unfortunately Shamino was one of the most prominent figures on this forum for ASUS and people decided to keep spamming him with bullshit, even though he was giving us constant updates on BETA BIOS.

After my TUF died and I went to MSI, I'm not gonna lie.. it's the thing I miss the most; just how easy it was to get updated beta BIOS and especially be able to talk to someone/ask questions that was actually knowledgeable. His explanation of how the FIVR rail worked and CPU VDDQ TX were super helpful early in ADL release.

I don't blame him for stepping back from the forum though. People were acting like nutjobs.


----------



## Zero989

Nizzen said:


> Pretty good min fps on cpu Game
> This is 8000c32 with 13900kf @ 5800 all core. 47 E cores and 49 ring.
> 
> It is possible to get more fps with all the "tricks".


So about 415fps average, you could get 420+, you'd also gain more performance with even higher ring and Windows 10 and HT disabled


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> There were a select few who were having issues and kept spamming him/tagging him in posts because they were doing ridiculous stuff like 4 sticks with two mismatched kits, or the general APEX 2021 issues.
> 
> Unfortunately Shamino was one of the most prominent figures on this forum for ASUS and people decided to keep spamming him with bullshit, even though he was giving us constant updates on BETA BIOS.
> 
> After my TUF died and I went to MSI, I'm not gonna lie.. it's the thing I miss the most; just how easy it was to get updated beta BIOS and especially be able to talk to someone/ask questions that was actually knowledgeable. His explanation of how the FIVR rail worked and CPU VDDQ TX were super helpful early in ADL release.
> 
> I don't blame him for stepping back from the forum though. People were acting like nutjobs.


the fact how asus handle the mess is questionable and unsatisfied. users of apex 2021 should not be treated that way.
but, rma stuffs seem to be not related to r&d guys, so...
anyways iirc the last explanation from shamino was no routing/wiring/chips/ic/ changes on both versions of apex but just changed PCB material only.


----------



## asdkj1740

not mine.

gigabyte z790 aero g ($299usd on newegg), 13900k, hynix a die.
i think the aorus elite ax priced at $259usd can do the same.


----------



## asdkj1740

msi z790 default vccsa when xmp enabled is 1.39~1.40v.
gigabyte z790 is like ~1.25v.


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> the fact how asus handle the mess is questionable and unsatisfied. users of apex 2021 should not be treated that way.
> but, rma stuffs seem to be not related to r&d guys, so...
> anyways iirc the last explanation from shamino was no routing/wiring/chips/ic/ changes on both versions of apex but just changed PCB material only.


Yeah that's really the crux of the issue. People were constantly tagging ASUS reps that had nothing to do with their issues, Shamino especially. The BIOS and motherboard aren't at fault because you can't run XMP with two mismatched kits that aren't meant to be run together lol. The APEX hardware issue was unfortunate because I'm sure Shamino was working hard to get the BIOS in a place that would help users get the speeds they should, but software isn't going to fix a hardware issue.

Either way, it's something I wish other companies would try to do. Would be great to have some MSI presence on the forum.


----------



## IronAge

opt33 said:


> I bet teamgroup works better


Yeah they work pretty well with Unify-X too, XMP with highly compatible timings/settings.

but they can not heal a ****ty 2021 Z690 Apex with crippled DIMM slots as well, that's why i sold my T-Force 7200 Kit.

Asus sits on my third as new Apex for almost a week now and just nothing happened yet.

fast exchange with a 2022 Apex i was hoping ...


----------



## snakeeyes111

G.skill 6400 + Apex z690.

7600c36















Karhu next step.

Final screen will come, if all stable and all stresstest´s dont fail after long time ^^


----------



## ViTosS

Zero989 said:


> So about 415fps average, you could get 420+, you'd also gain more performance with even higher ring and Windows 10 and HT disabled


Is it Windows 10 really doing better than 11 for games atm with 13900k? I will have to format anyway when my 13900k arrives...


----------



## db000

acoustic said:


> What kind of thermal pads are you guys using on your DIMM sticks? I ordered some Thermalright Oddessy 2 1mm and 0.5mm for my IceManCooler heatsinks. I'll also use it for the contact between the sticks and waterblock.. kinda excited to see how the temps will look with water.


Thermal Grizzly Minus Pad 8 1mm.

6400CL32 M-die sticks.


----------



## robalm

Just upgraded my old ddr4 system to:
I9 12900k, asus z690 strix e and gskills 6000 cl 40 at 1.35v (showing up as samsung in cpuz).

I don't know anything about overcklocking ddr5.
This is the settings i have changed.
Please tell me if there is something wrong


----------



## asdkj1740

robalm said:


> Just upgraded my old ddr4 system to:
> I9 12900k, asus z690 strix e and gskills 6000 cl 40 at 1.35v (showing up as samsung in cpuz).
> 
> I don't know anything about overcklocking ddr5.
> This is the settings i have changed.
> Please tell me if there is something wrong
> View attachment 2579274
> 
> View attachment 2579275
> 
> View attachment 2579276
> 
> View attachment 2579277


your stick is wrong.


----------



## robalm

asdkj1740 said:


> your stick is wrong.


Wrong?


----------



## acoustic

db000 said:


> Thermal Grizzly Minus Pad 8 1mm.
> 
> 6400CL32 M-die sticks.


You did 1mm on both sides, even chip side? Seems like you want 0.5mm on the chip side since it has the protrusions from the chips.

I'm not sure about how soft the Oddessy pads are. If they're soft enough I'll use the 1mm on both sides.


----------



## stahlhart

robalm said:


> Wrong?


The first thing you should probably do is make certain your kit is good and stable at the rated speed (6000) -- you are already up to 6667. You would be quite fortunate to get a Strix-E booting up at that spec. I've gotten my Hynix 6400 to boot at 6600, but could not validate stability at this speed, so I rolled it back to 6400... it has already passed Karhu 10,000% and [email protected] this afternoon, and I'm running @1usmus now. I think that's about all that a board such as this is going to be able to reach.

You can also dump BIOS screens to a thumb drive with F12.

You can PM me if you want to work together, since we have the same board.


----------



## db000

acoustic said:


> You did 1mm on both sides, even chip side? Seems like you want 0.5mm on the chip side since it has the protrusions from the chips.
> 
> I'm not sure about how soft the Oddessy pads are. If they're soft enough I'll use the 1mm on both sides.


These are soft and with the stupid LEDs I wanted good isolation everywhere. I could prob used 0.5mm on one side, but copper heatsinks begin quite wide in the bottom I went for the 1mm on both side so stick is firmly mounted and centered. With one side being 0.5 I didn't get that same nice even pressure so sticks was sligthly leaning.


----------



## Zero989

ViTosS said:


> Is it Windows 10 really doing better than 11 for games atm with 13900k? I will have to format anyway when my 13900k arrives...


No, that's just for tomb raider. I think you should stick to windows 11 unless you hate it.


----------



## dante`afk

teamgroup 7200 @ 7600 c34
vdd/vddq 1.5v, vddqtx 1.4, SA 1.2. MC 1.45


----------



## jeiselramos

acoustic said:


> Yeah that's really the crux of the issue. People were constantly tagging ASUS reps that had nothing to do with their issues, Shamino especially. The BIOS and motherboard aren't at fault because you can't run XMP with two mismatched kits that aren't meant to be run together lol. The APEX hardware issue was unfortunate because I'm sure Shamino was working hard to get the BIOS in a place that would help users get the speeds they should, but software isn't going to fix a hardware issue.
> 
> Either way, it's something I wish other companies would try to do. Would be great to have some MSI presence on the forum.


I think it was a combination of different things, bad IMC or bad motherboard, but until you don't test the same CPU and ram on another motherboard you can't know what's the problem and a TON of people didn't do that and blame Asus and shamino without test anything. 
And even then a bad IMC can work well in another board and not on the apex 2021, that's what I'm figuring out with 13 gen + Apex 2021 because now I'm testing 6800/7000 and i couldn't do more than 6200 so i could blame Asus for my "bad" apex beacuse UX did 6800 easy and actually somehow it was the CPU.


----------



## bscool

opt33 said:


> I bet teamgroup works better, vcolor seems poorly binned/tested. Interested to see what gskills do.


I just got the Team 7200 and havent tested enough but so far they seem about the same as 7200 v color on this 0006 bios on 2022 Apex with 13900k. I wanna try older bioses and see if they work better. The v color I couldnt get to run y cruncher consitently at 7400 on older bioses.

The new bios made a huge difference with the v color as far as being able to run y cruncher. I havent really tested memtest/karhu been trying to see how high I can run 1b and 2.5b y cuncher.


----------



## MLJS54

Wondering if anyone here is running this G Skill kit?

*6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK (6400 32-39-39-102)*

Wondering what kind of OC I can expect from this paired with a 13700K and a Unify Z690I.

Or should I go ahead and jump up to the newer 7200 kits that just came out? +$150

*F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK (7200 34-45-45-115)*

Thank you in advance!


----------



## bscool

MLJS54 said:


> Wondering if anyone here is running this G Skill kit?
> 
> *6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK (6400 32-39-39-102)*
> 
> Wondering what kind of OC I can expect from this paired with a 13700K and a Unify Z690I.
> 
> Or should I go ahead and jump up to the newer 7200 kits that just came out? +$150
> 
> *F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK (7200 34-45-45-115)*
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Most likely 6400 kit is M die but maybe A die on newer batches. 7200 is A die.

A die will clock higher and as a guess you will be able to run 7400+ on A die. M die around 6800 to 7000 depending on how much time you are willing to spending tuning and testing.


----------



## 2500k_2

Stronger memory controller in raptorlake. m die works on 7200 without problems (don't pay attention to small errors in timings). Even possibly 7466.
The controller limit in gear1 is 4300 stable. 4400 only bot.


----------



## IronAge

jeiselramos said:


> the problem and a TON of people didn't do that and blame Asus and shamino without test anything.


enough people have got borked 2021 Apex to verify it.

none of these badly manufactured retail boards will ever do above 7200 stable, not with wonder IMC, and not with wonder A-Die memory IC.

snakeeyes111 has a 2022 Z690 Apex btw.


----------



## bhav

IronAge said:


> enough people have got borked 2021 Apex to verify it.
> 
> none of these badly manufactured retail boards will ever do above 7200 stable, not with wonder IMC, and not with wonder A-Die memory IC.
> 
> snakeeyes111 has a 2022 Z690 Apex btw.


I mean its still only the second gen of DDR5, ofc its still going to be crap.


----------



## satinghostrider

snakeeyes111 said:


> G.skill 6400 + Apex z690.
> 
> 7600c36
> 
> View attachment 2579261
> View attachment 2579262
> 
> 
> Karhu next step.
> 
> Final screen will come, if all stable and all stresstest´s dont fail after long time ^^


0006 is such a good bios I swear. I hope my 2022 Apex rips the new M Die speeds like what you posted. I am confident now this will not be a problem for us 2022 Apex Unicorns.

P.S : 0006 bios Z690 Apex required another 0.01V voltage bump over my usual IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage setting to be completely stable compared to 0002 and 2103 Bios. I was failing TM5 and games were crashing prior to adjusting this slightly upwards.


----------



## bscool

satinghostrider said:


> 0006 is such a good bios I swear. I hope my 2022 Apex rips the new M Die speeds like what you posted. I am confident now this will not be a problem for us 2022 Apex Unicorns.
> 
> P.S : 0006 bios Z690 Apex required another 0.01V voltage bump over my usual IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage setting to be completely stable compared to 0002 and 2103 Bios. I was failing TM5 and games were crashing prior to adjusting this slightly upwards.


Are you on 13th gen yet?

I notice 2004 is approx 10c lower running y cruncher on 13900k on z690 Apex vs later ones. I see 2004 uses 108 and newer use 10E. But I tested both 2004 and 2103 and they dont work well with A die.

I didnt notice anything the little I tested them with m die. Maybe it is a setting I am missing on these newer ones but I cant get the same temps as I could on 2004.

Havent seen anyone else say anything(if they did I missed it) but I saw @Falkentyne mention an older ucode also ran cooler in his z790 write up.

"Tidbit: An old trick available is to use ucode switcher in tweaker’s paradise to load an older "04" microcode, which can lower temps by 8C."









Asus, Z790 and Raptor Lake: World record overclocking...


Thank you to Shamino and the Asus ROG team for allowing me to test their Maximus Z790 Extreme sample and 13900KF QS CPU. DISCLAIMER: QS CPU’s may be final silicon but there can still be changes going from QS to retail. QS is not always indicative of retail chips, so results on retail may be...




www.overclock.net


----------



## satinghostrider

bscool said:


> Are you on 13th gen yet?
> 
> I notice 2004 is approx 10c lower on 13900k on z690 Apex vs later ones. I see 2004 uses 108 and newer use 10E. But I tested both 2004 and 2103 and they dont work well with A die.
> 
> I didnt notice anything the little I tested them with m die.


No I'm still on my 12900K. My SP105 13900k goes in sometime on Tuesday next week then I can really start testing it.


----------



## sblantipodi

Is there someone who noticed IMC degradation with 1.35V?


----------



## Alexshunter

Guys, where to buy A die? It can be without fancy heatspreader


----------



## asdkj1740

Alexshunter said:


> Guys, where to buy A die? It can be without fancy heatspreader


teamgroup 7200 amazon/newegg


----------



## Ketku-

F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
7600 CL36 (36-46-46-121) , are these A-Die?

How going to work 12900K + Apex Z690?


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 7600 CL36 (36-46-46-121) , are these A-Die?
> 
> How going to work 12900K + Apex Z690?


Depends how your MB is. I see some on z690 Apex running 7800 to 8000 and others struggle at even 7400. This latest bios I can finally run 7400 y cruncher but getting errors on Karhu. Still need to test more but it wont be easy from what I can see testing 7200 v color and 7200 Team.

I have the 7600 gskill coming but I doubt they will be much different. Edit I havent tested this latest bios with 12th gen only 13900k.


----------



## Ketku-

bscool said:


> Depends how your MB is. I see some on z690 Apex running 7800 to 8000 and others struggle at even 7400. This latest bios I can finally run 7400 y cruncher but getting errors on Karhu. Still need to test more but it wont be easy from what I can see testing 7200 v color and 7200 Team.
> 
> I have the 7600 gskill coming but I doubt they will be much different. Edit I havent testd this latest bios with 12th gen only 13900k.


Are these new G.Skill 7600 A-Die?


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> Are these new G.Skill 7600 A-Die?


Yeah, pretty much anything over 6600 will be A die. To be safe 6800 and up should be a die but they are starting to use them even in 6400 kits.


----------



## snakeeyes111

On 6400er A-die 7600 Apex z690


----------



## IronAge

Ketku- said:


> How going to work 12900K + Apex Z690?


If it is no 2022 Z690 Apex you would waste your money.


----------



## Ketku-

IronAge said:


> If it is no 2022 Z690 Apex you would waste your money.


Mine apex is 2021 and works well.


----------



## IronAge

Ketku- said:


> Mine apex is 2021 and works well


How well it works you know when you tried overclocking your memory 6800 and above.

That's where most of the ''good" 2021 Z690 Apex crap out.


----------



## cstkl1

MLJS54 said:


> Wondering if anyone here is running this G Skill kit?
> 
> *6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK (6400 32-39-39-102)*
> 
> Wondering what kind of OC I can expect from this paired with a 13700K and a Unify Z690I.
> 
> Or should I go ahead and jump up to the newer 7200 kits that just came out? +$150
> 
> *F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK (7200 34-45-45-115)*
> 
> Thank you in advance!


check whether its 820a . and u can try 7600c36..


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Yeah, pretty much anything over 6600 will be A die. To be safe 6800 and up should be a die but they are starting to use them even in 6400 kits.


6400 are coming in adie also now. @snakeeyes111 kit


----------



## Ketku-

IronAge said:


> How well it works you know when you tried overclocking your memory 6800 and above.
> 
> That's where most of the ''good" 2021 Z690 Apex crap out.


So what you want know? Some mhz boot or what?


----------



## pipes

Who think to buy z799 tachyon and who has experience with z690 tachyon?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## IronAge

pipes said:


> Who think to buy z799 tachyon and who has experience with z690 tachyon?


Experience with Z690/Z790 Tachyon may be found here:



GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon





> Just for Info, Z790 Tachyon with 12900k and AVX512 works also great. 7400+ for Geek3 and 7400 for y-cruncher m-die on Air


----------



## tps3443

Guys, the Team Group Hynix A-Die stuff runs crazy cool! 45 minutes in to testing so far. And they run 37-39C. I also have the memory voltage increased to 1.435 from 1.400 which it doesn’t even need apparently. That is more or less my OCD kicking in.

I have a fan blowing on them, that’s it. Open Praxis test bench full edition.

TEAM GROUP T-Force 7200 DDR5
tREFI is at max 262K+
tFAW at 16
7200 C34 XMP

This profile is already blistering fast. And I feel like these memory temps are very low compared to what I’m hearing from others. Maybe not though, I am not sure.

13900KF CPU is at
5.8Ghz P-Cores,
4.5Ghz E-Cores,
5.1Ghz Cache
@ 1.260V LLC 5.
MSI Z690 Unify-X Motherboard


----------



## snakeeyes111

tps3443 said:


> And I feel like these memory temps are very low compared to what I’m hearing from others


TG have a pad on pmic, thats the reason if u compare to G.skill. 
Tempreading is pmic, not IC´s!


----------



## biigshow666

My Corsair 5200/c38 oc to 5600c36 is slowly dieing after purchasing at release around this time last year. Attempting a warranty return. Regardless, I'm in the market for a new 32gb set. I am on a Asus z690 strix f . What's the best kit to get at the moment as I'd like to max out my current setup 12900k/z690/4090. Will upgrade Mobo CPU in with the next refresh.


----------



## 673714

Sorry if someone else has already pointed this out, but this is from the Intel website. Idk about anyone else, but a better IMC is enough to convince me to upgrade.










https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/compare.html?productIds=230496,134599



Good thing I'm not in a big hurry though, it's sold out everywhere atm. Just like everything else 

I'm sure I can stand gaming on a 12900k with an rtx3090 for a little longer though


----------



## Carillo

IronAge said:


> If it is no 2022 Z690 Apex you would waste your money.


Well , that’s not true. My 2021 retail Apex ran 6933 M-die stable.


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP Z790 4DIMM 16g*2 8200MHZ T-FORCE 7600XMP
*








Team Group Delta RGB DDR5 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 (PC5-60800) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7600HC36DDC01 - Newegg.com


Buy Team Group Delta RGB DDR5 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 (PC5-60800) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7600HC36DDC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com




*


----------



## IronAge

Carillo said:


> Well , that’s not true. My 2021 retail Apex ran 6933 M-die stable.


So it makes sense to buy 7600 for you ? 

Which your Apex won't be able to run even when you throw the golden imc and A-Die Kit on it.

that's what the question was about.


----------



## Carillo

sulalin said:


> T-FORCE DDR5-7600XMP Z790 4DIMM 16g*2 8200MHZ T-FORCE 7600XMP
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Team Group Delta RGB DDR5 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 (PC5-60800) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7600HC36DDC01 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Team Group Delta RGB DDR5 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 (PC5-60800) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7600HC36DDC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> View attachment 2579596


From what I have seen so far, i think people have a bigger chance getting 8000 c32 + bin buying Hynix generic greens 🥬. I don’t know anything about the new 7600 c36 bin , but I have one incoming so I will let you know 😅


----------



## adolf512

I would like to see a test on some of the cheaper boards like asus prime z790-p and msi pro z790-p


----------



## Carillo

IronAge said:


> So it makes sense to buy 7600 for you ?


Yes. You can’t compare m-die and a-die speed on same motherboard. If the board tops out @7000 m-die , it surely can do much more with a-die. Point is , you keep saying all 2021 boards is crap . That’s no true , I know many guys having 2021 retail Apex doing very well in memory OC


----------



## IronAge

and i know people that tested 10+ Apex to get one that does ~7200 with M-Die which can not stabilize A-Die at higher freqs.

heard this, seen that, but where is the proof ? many runnig 2021 Apex up to 6800/6933 at best.

last week i tried A-Die on my best of three  2021 Apex, with A-Die i been able to get into UEFI and load Memtest with 7200, no way to get it stable, errors from second one Memtest running.

went down to 6800, that would work out, TG 7200 Kit sold, makes no sense with this POS Apex.


----------



## newls1

tps3443 said:


> Guys, the Team Group Hynix A-Die stuff runs crazy cool! 45 minutes in to testing so far. And they run 37-39C. I also have the memory voltage increased to 1.435 from 1.400 which it doesn’t even need apparently. That is more or less my OCD kicking in.
> 
> I have a fan blowing on them, that’s it. Open Praxis test bench full edition.
> 
> TEAM GROUP T-Force 7200 DDR5
> tREFI is at max 262K+
> tFAW at 16
> 7200 C34 XMP
> 
> This profile is already blistering fast. And I feel like these memory temps are very low compared to what I’m hearing from others. Maybe not though, I am not sure.
> 
> 13900KF CPU is at
> 5.8Ghz P-Cores,
> 4.5Ghz E-Cores,
> 5.1Ghz Cache
> @ 1.260V LLC 5.
> MSI Z690 Unify-X Motherboard
> 
> 
> View attachment 2579558
> 
> View attachment 2579557


can you get to 7600with same settings?


----------



## asdkj1740

IronAge said:


> and i know people that tested 10+ Apex to get one that does ~7200 with M-Die which can not stabilize A-Die at higher freqs.
> 
> heard this, seen that, but where is the proof ? many runnig 2021 Apex up to 6800/6933 at best.
> 
> last week i tried A-Die on my best of three  2021 Apex, with A-Die i been able to get into UEFI and load Memtest with 7200, no way to get it stable, errors from second one Memtest running.


could be cpu related, also we shall give mobo vendors more time to fine-tune their bios for hynix a die kits other than hynix green stick.

even gigabyte four dimms mobo can do 7466mhz with a die passed tm5 1us 20 cycles.


----------



## Carillo

IronAge said:


> and i know people that tested 10+ Apex to get one that does ~7200 with M-Die which can not stabilize A-Die at higher freqs.
> 
> heard this, seen that, but where is the proof ? many runnig 2021 Apex up to 6800/6933 at best.
> 
> last week i tried A-Die on my best of three  2021 Apex, with A-Die i been able to get into UEFI and load Memtest with 7200, no way to get it stable, errors from second one Memtest running.
> 
> went down to 6800, that would work out, TG 7200 Kit sold, makes no sense with this POS Apex.


Why did you buy three of them if they suck as much as you say ?


----------



## IronAge

it is not the CPU, i had more than one CPU at my hands, its clearly the board, it suffers from mediocre DIMM slots like most of the 2021 Apex do, why else would anybody here try to get hold of a 2022 Apex ?! production issues solved, verified by many 2022 Apex owners.


----------



## IronAge

Carillo said:


> Why did you buy three of them if they suck as much as you say ?


to verify my findings, and of course hoping to get a better one.

i bought two, the other one is a replacement. 

plus i had some early Z690 Extreme for other guys builds that suffered from bad DIMM Slots as well, much worse than the Apex i tried.


----------



## asdkj1740

IronAge said:


> it is not the CPU, i had more than one CPU at my hands, its clearly the board, it suffers from mediocre DIMM slots like most of the 2021 Apex do, why else would anybody here try to get hold of a 2022 Apex ?! production issues solved, verified by many 2022 Apex owners.


but 7200mhz for m die on apex z690 is amazing and that is god binned already.
it is strange the same mobo cant perform even better with a die.


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> but 7200mhz for m die on apex z690 is amazing and that is god binned already.
> it is strange the same mobo cant perform even better with a die.


it doesn’t make sense at all. My Apex could do 7400 m-die MAX. With A-die it can do 8400.. it even boots 8600 with both sticks.


----------



## IronAge

then you have been either EXTREMELY lucky or you own a 2022 Apex. 

i had a 2021 Apex that would not even Post with 6800, with a CPU that otherwise does 7400 easy.

must be stupid me and not the motherboard.

since Asus 2nd level support said Asus only garantuees up to 6600 for Apex RMA has been refused, and thus i had to sell this piece of


----------



## sulalin

Here's a normal 2022 APEX using a 12th Gen CPU


Spoiler: MDIE









































Spoiler: ADIE

























































Spoiler: You must go through the normal channels to apply for a warranty in exchange for APEX 2022


----------



## IronAge

@sulalin

you are warmly invited to send this 2022 Apex over to me.


----------



## sulalin

IronAge said:


> @sualin
> 
> you are invited to send this 2022 Apex to me.





IronAge said:


> @sualin
> 
> you are invited to send this 2022 Apex to me.


Don't do this... There is no money to change the 13th generation CPU and Z790 APEX...😭😭😭


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Ordered some G. Skill 7200s. Last set from Newegg. Will be here middle of this week. Was looking at the new Corsair Dom 7200s, but they are $250 more and not in stock anyways.

Time to get off these 6200 M-Die Doms.


----------



## warbucks

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Ordered some G. Skill 7200s. Last set from Newegg. Will be here middle of this week. Was looking at the new Corsair Dom 7200s, but they are $250 more and not in stock anyways.
> 
> Time to get off these 6200 M-Die Doms.
> 
> View attachment 2579629


I have the same kit arriving tomorrow or Tuesday. I also picked up some oem hynix a-die greens that will arrive Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll report back after I've tested them with my 13900k and Z690 Dark.


----------



## bhav

Corsair are generally overpriced junk tier modules anyway, I tried multiple DDR3 and DDR4 corsair kits in the past and none of them would even OC 50mhz past stock XMP. I put them on the same level for ram overclocking as gigabyte boards.

Ofc they sometimes put out good ICs on their modules, but its like looking for a needle in a haystack trying to find good ICs on corsair kits.


----------



## IronAge

I owned very good Corsair Dominator DDR3 with Samsung IC, many 2133/2400 kits that reached at least DDR3-2666/2800.

i already had 6200 M-Die Domis and the only thing that kept me from going higher than 66661N has been the ... you can guess it, lucky 2021 Apex owner.


----------



## tubs2x4

bhav said:


> Corsair are generally overpriced junk tier modules anyway, I tried multiple DDR3 and DDR4 corsair kits in the past and none of them would even OC 50mhz past stock XMP. I put them on the same level for ram overclocking as gigabyte boards.
> 
> Ofc they sometimes put out good ICs on their modules, but its like looking for a needle in a haystack trying to find good ICs on corsair kits.


Suppose you can’t fault a company for selling a product that works what’s it’s rated for can you now? OC is gamble beyond what its rated for.


----------



## bhav

tubs2x4 said:


> Suppose you can’t fault a company for selling a product that works what’s it’s rated for can you now? OC is gamble beyond what its rated for.


I suppose not, except it was also advertised as 'highly overclockable ram'.


----------



## warbucks

bhav said:


> I suppose not, except it was also advertised as 'highly overclockable ram'.


6200Mhz is very much overclocked compared to the default 4800Mhz DDR5 support for the 12th gen when those sticks were released.


----------



## tubs2x4

bhav said:


> I suppose not, except it was also advertised as 'highly overclockable ram'.


In their mind that means from jedec to xmp overclock ha. Not enthusiasts definition.


----------



## tubs2x4

warbucks said:


> 6200Mhz is very much overclocked compared to the default 4800Mhz DDR5 support for the 12th gen when those sticks were released.


He was talking about older ddr3 and ddr4 kits he had purchased long ago.


----------



## MLJS54

Ended up grabbing the 7200 TF kit for the new build. Any recs for a bios vers for the z690i unify? Thanks all.


----------



## newls1

Anything you might see that can be improved?


----------



## rulik006

bhav said:


> Corsair are generally overpriced junk tier modules anyway, I tried multiple DDR3 and DDR4 corsair kits in the past and none of them would even OC 50mhz past stock XMP. I put them on the same level for ram overclocking as gigabyte boards.
> 
> Ofc they sometimes put out good ICs on their modules, but its like looking for a needle in a haystack trying to find good ICs on corsair kits.


Total BS
You just dont know what you are buying
Corsair Dominator Platinum *2017 *has better B-die quallity than Team/G.Skill from the same year
Like this 3466c16 2017 can do flat 4000c15


Spoiler























or this 2400c14 *2015!!! *can do 3200c14/ 3600c16 / 3800 16-17
*


Spoiler






























*


----------



## bhav

Well good luck to you finding the 1% of corsair kits that are better than anyone elses.

Also I believe I used the word 'generally' not 'always'.

I would also question the date you think those modules were made because in *2019 *2x16 Gb DDR4 kits were only available at stock XMP of 3200, in *2017*, 2x8 only went up to 3600, and 2x16 2666.

The modules you did link if indeed they were released in 2017, were likely only available in a single country and in a limited batch of maybe just 10 kits. Oh right, and they would have cost like £1000 or something daft.


----------



## rulik006

bhav said:


> Well good luck to you finding the 1% of corsair kits that are better than anyone elses.
> I would also question the date you think those modules were made because in *2019 *2x16 Gb DDR4 kits were only available at stock XMP of 3200, in *2017*, 2x8 only went up to 3600, and 2x16 2666.
> The modules you did link if indeed they were released in 2017, were likely only available in a single country and in a limited batch of maybe just 10 kits.


This is not 1%, a had a lot of them 2400c14/2800c14/3200c16/3466c16 they all overclocking great
Date is written on the serial number


----------



## bhav

rulik006 said:


> This is not 1%, a had a lot of them 2400c14/2800c14/3200c16/3466c16 they all overclocking great
> Date is written on the serial number


Right yes, and they cost £500 and were available to buy nowhere. Well done to you for spending £500 for the same thing my £150 unbinned kit does.

And in 2017, the kit you linked wouldn't have even been 1% of ram available at the time, more like 0.5%, and most likely only a paper launch.


----------



## Talon2016

Picked up the new G.Skill 7600 CL36 kit from Microcenter on the way home. Priced at $419.99, better than the Newegg price.


----------



## rulik006

bhav said:


> Right yes, and they cost £500. Well done to you for spending £500 for the same thing my £150 kit does.


Im buying them used for cheap and i know which ic's i will get, no point to buy new.


----------



## bhav

rulik006 said:


> Im buying them used for cheap and i know which ic's i get, no point to buy new.


So your 2017 point was complete BS then wasn't it?

MemoryC, OCUK, Scan and an EU based memory specialist I was checking back then had exactly ZERO 2x16 kits to purchase in 2019 that were above 3200, I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO BUY 2X16 3600CL14 CAPABLE RAM IN 2019 AND NOWHERE SOLD ANY XMP ABOVE 3200!

And don't act like you are so clever because you only know what memory ICs to buy for DDR4 in 2022.


----------



## Agent-A01

bhav said:


> And don't act like you are so clever because you only know what memory ICs to buy for DDR4 in 2022.


Take a chill pill dude. Always rambling about something stupid


----------



## z390e

@Talon2016 how are they performing? You running them on the z690 Dark or?


----------



## rulik006

bhav said:


> So your 2017 point was complete BS then wasn't it?
> 
> MemoryC, OCUK, Scan and an EU based memory specialist I was checking back then had exactly ZERO 2x16 kits to purchase in 2019 that were above 3200, I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO BUY 2X16 3600CL14 CAPABLE RAM IN 2019 AND NOWHERE SOLD ANY XMP ABOVE 3200!
> 
> And don't act like you are so clever because you only know what memory ICs to buy for DDR4 in 2022.


i knew what memory to buy a long time ago.
Not my fault that in UK memory availability worse than in UA
And you always can order memory from US.

Funny thing: Hynix M-die available in UA for $62 per 16GB with 3year warranty
Maybe A-die will arrive soon
Scan UK have this option? LOL


Spoiler


----------



## bhav

Scan UK won't have that ram as they are Corsair Exclusive and always have been:






DDR5 RAM | Single/Dual Channel DDR5 | SCAN UK


DDR5 ram the fastest and most efficient memory available and compatible with Intels 12th gen. Shop ddr5 ram at SCAN UK today




www.scan.co.uk





And the corsair exclusivity is kind of exactly how I ended up going through several of their kits.

Corsair seem to bin their kits aggressively, you get what it says on the label and little more, when they do have 'top tier ram', its on a £400-500 kit.

The bare modules of Hynix M / A die for cheap like the ones you linked? Good luck getting those for a decent price from Corsair.


----------



## Carillo

Talon2016 said:


> Picked up the new G.Skill 7600 CL36 kit from Microcenter on the way home. Priced at $419.99, better than the Newegg price.


Done testing them yet ? 😂


----------



## sulalin

rulik006，帖子：29060305，成員：457124 said:


> 總學士學位
> 你只是不知道你在買什麼
> Corsair Dominator Platinum *2017 *的 B-die 質量優於同年的 Team/G.Skill
> 像這個3466c16 2017可以做平板4000c15
> [劇透]
> View attachment 2579645
> 
> View attachment 2579646
> 
> 
> 
> [/劇透]
> 
> 或者這個 2400c14 *2015 ！！！ *可以做3200c14/3600c16/3800 16-17
> *[劇透]
> View attachment 2579642
> 
> View attachment 2579643
> 
> View attachment 2579644
> 
> [/劇透]*
> [/引用]1.95V


----------



## z390e

wrong thread for DDR4


----------



## Talon2016

z390e said:


> @Talon2016 how are they performing? You running them on the z690 Dark or?


So far so good, I am running 7800 CL36 with basically stock timings at 1.435v DRAM VDD/VDDQ without issue on the Dark and 13900K.

Going to test 8000 CL36 basically XMP now.






This is 1.435v DRAM VDD/VDDQ

8200 CL36 requires 1.455v VDD/VDDQ to boot. Not tested for stability obviously. Still impressive IMO.


----------



## db000

What is the opinion so far on Z790 Apex?


----------



## bscool

db000 said:


> What is the opinion so far on Z790 Apex?


Not mine, from discord @Seby9123

1.6 vdd, 1.55vddq, 1.4vddqtx, 1.5 mc volt (vdd2

m die air cooled mem
















Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities


Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.




discord.com


----------



## IronAge

db000 said:


> What is the opinion so far on Z790 Apex?


whitish suxx, have to find differences compared to Z690 Apex yet.

paying more for better tuned Bios for RPL and probably further improved SMD type DIMM slot soldering.


----------



## Nizzen

Tested offset SA. Maybe a bit too low... close but no sigar


----------



## SuperMumrik

Some A-die (G.Skill 6600) testing on my piss poor IMC. Looking forward to try another CPU.
I need 1.46ish MC volt to be stable at 7733Mhz 😐












ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-13900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Some A-die (G.Skill 6600) testing on my piss poor IMC. Looking forward to try another CPU.
> I need 1.46ish MC volt to be stable at 7733Mhz 😐
> View attachment 2579728
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-13900K processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com


dats high or try reducing txvddq with mc


----------



## don1376

Raphie said:


> So what's the final timings and VDD(Q) then? and this is Karhu 10K% coverage stable? You've got Kingston no?


This is my kingston Renegades fully stable at 7200cl32 with about a tight as I can go on timings @ 1.56v. Maxx temp 43c after hours of Kahru running.


----------



## Ketku-

I was ordered G.Skill 7600 new rams. 1 week till they are in home. Will see it, work Z690 Apex or not.  

Are they A-Die?


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> dats high or try reducing txvddq with mc


It's high! **** IMC, but a few more cpu's incoming.
Not sure how good the _dimms_ are yet, but seems like cpu is the limiting factor for now.
[email protected]


----------



## IronAge

A-Die @ 8800 with EVGA Z790 Dark.






Facebook







www.facebook.com


----------



## Carillo

IronAge said:


> A-Die @ 8800 with EVGA Z790 Dark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


Based on cpu clock , thats definitely LN2😁


----------



## IronAge

Carillo said:


> Based on cpu clock , thats definitely LN2😁


yep, it is no secret tho, pre-binned Hynix DIMM, CENS main interest is XOC.

EVGA Z790 Dark now 14 Layer ... piece of cake we can not buy.


----------



## CptSpig

db000 said:


> What is the opinion so far on Z790 Apex?


Waiting for pre-order's!


----------



## robalm

anyone know why asrock showing my running single channel?


----------



## Carillo

Talon2016 said:


> So far so good, I am running 7800 CL36 with basically stock timings at 1.435v DRAM VDD/VDDQ without issue on the Dark and 13900K.
> 
> Going to test 8000 CL36 basically XMP now.
> View attachment 2579702
> This is 1.435v DRAM VDD/VDDQ
> 
> 8200 CL36 requires 1.455v VDD/VDDQ to boot. Not tested for stability obviously. Still impressive IMO.
> View attachment 2579711


Have you done any stability testing ?


----------



## bscool

robalm said:


> anyone know why asrock showing my running single channel?
> View attachment 2579784


Do you have the latest version. Not sure if that changes it. 









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. just not sure which batch. Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com Part# doesn't...




www.overclock.net


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Based on cpu clock , thats definitely LN2😁


did u remember somebody came here once saying aio cooling etc ram oc .. cpu aio.. ran ln2.. lol


Talon2016 said:


> So far so good, I am running 7800 CL36 with basically stock timings at 1.435v DRAM VDD/VDDQ without issue on the Dark and 13900K.
> 
> Going to test 8000 CL36 basically XMP now.
> View attachment 2579702
> This is 1.435v DRAM VDD/VDDQ
> 
> 8200 CL36 requires 1.455v VDD/VDDQ to boot. Not tested for stability obviously. Still impressive IMO.
> View attachment 2579711


nice


----------



## z390e

How many of you at 7800 or above are using that for daily gaming? Are you seeing significant performance bumps from stock?


----------



## acoustic

8200CL36 is pretty sick. I'm curious if it's possible to get that stable for a daily use profile.


----------



## cstkl1

z390e said:


> How many of you at 7800 or above are using that for daily gaming? Are you seeing significant performance bumps from stock?


nothing really except. in my humble opinion
ecores seems to introduce some latency drop.

v2 - avg fps just 2-3 fps off p vs p+e
but min fps had like 16-19 fps difference

this at 70-82fps avg which i think is significant

12900k the avg/min fps variance was consistent on p vs p+e

maybe need to try other games


----------



## Carillo

z390e said:


> How many of you at 7800 or above are using that for daily gaming? Are you seeing significant performance bumps from stock?


Faster is better no matter how much testing you do 😅 I think most people here will run max stable speed mem/cpu as long as they can cool it. I don’t see the point in paying a leg and an arm for a high end motherboard , leaving performance on the table because you are worried about degradation. I ran 1,7vvdq dayli on my 12900k , did not degrade at all. I will report back if the 13900k doesn’t like it 🤣


----------



## asdkj1740

Ketku- said:


> I was ordered G.Skill 7600 new rams. 1 week till they are in home. Will see it, work Z690 Apex or not.
> 
> Are they A-Die?


this kit is so hot, as always.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> this kit is so hot, as always.


mine coming in 2 days. as usual made to order so da sn will be like this week. lol


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> this kit is so hot, as always.


you got this kit ? Keep hearing about people in possession of this unicorn kit , but no one has posted any results. So many teasers 😂

Edit : A lot of XMP testing, but come on


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> you got this kit ? Keep hearing about people in possession of this unicorn kit , but no one has posted any results. So many teasers 😂
> 
> Edit : A lot of XMP testing, but come on


the gigabyte aero g 7466mhz tm5 passed is done by 7600 gskill kit.


----------



## asdkj1740

you should expect 45c spd temp, at 1.1v 4800mhz, with 2000rpm fan on top blowing, in game.....
i am speakless.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> you got this kit ? Keep hearing about people in possession of this unicorn kit , but no one has posted any results. So many teasers 😂
> 
> Edit : A lot of XMP testing, but come on


so far nothing great from other ppl testing on edge


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> you should expect 45c spd temp, at 1.1v 4800mhz, with 2000rpm fan on top blowing, in game.....
> i am speakless.


Where did you get that data from ? 

Strange g.skill haven't learned how to cool pmic's. But i guess they dont think high temps is an issue. Water is the way to go if pushing 1,6vdd or more for 24/7 no matter what kit you have. Nothing more annoying than listening to high rpm fans, and stability goes out the window going over 50c on high voltage.


----------



## FarmerJo

hoping someone can help me. using a 2022 z690 apex with a 13900k and having issues raising memory voltages over 1.45. i can get settings stable at those volages but as soon as i increase the voltage i get errors. any weird settings i need to change on this board?


----------



## cstkl1

FarmerJo said:


> hoping someone can help me. using a 2022 z690 apex with a 13900k and having issues raising memory voltages over 1.45. i can get settings stable at those volages but as soon as i increase the voltage i get errors. any weird settings i need to change on this board?


which ram?









ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-m-0006.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Talon2016

acoustic said:


> 8200CL36 is pretty sick. I'm curious if it's possible to get that stable for a daily use profile.


So I stabilized 7800 CL36 at 1.435v no problem. I was having issues with 8000 CL36 but I'm getting closer as it's not erroring immediately now. 8200 CL36 might be difficult for my setup it seems. Cooling these Trident Z5 are difficult since I think they skimped on a PMIC thermal pad again (can't see inside easily) and I'm only using 1 single small 60mm Noctua fan over them. I need to upgrade the ram cooling with a bigger or more fans because at these freqs the chips get hot. Might be the limit of my IMC though, no idea. I have another 13900K that I can swap from the other rig to try and see if it helps, maybe tomorrow. 

I've also tested my binned green pcb oem A-Die and both the Z5 and OEM kit seem to act identically in terms of voltage and clocks so far. That leads me to believe there is a lot left in the tank the limiting factor is likely the IMC or board or my limited knowledge of what I'm doing.


----------



## acoustic

Gskill doesn't have a pad on PMIC. The GSkill 6600 kit I had was atrocious for temps even at 1.40v.

Put those puppies on water!


----------



## asdkj1740

open bench without gpu, gskill 7600 kit
for 1.4v dram vdd and dram vddq, the spd temp can go up to 45c, with a 2000rpm fan blowing down.
for 1.38v, it can go up to 43c, with a 2000rpm fan blowing down as well.
for 1.45v/1.42v vdd/vddq, it can go up to 48c with a 2000rpm fan blowing down as well.
so, try to turn the RGB off when gaming.

teamgroup delta rgb m die, for 1.57/1.55v, spd temp 48c only (with a 2000rpm fan).
that's why i would recommend teamgroup 7200 a die kit over gskill sticks.








在Z790 6層板上測試G.SKILL TRIDENT Z5 RGB 7600MHZ 2*16G HYNIX A DIE - 悠二硬件Yujihw - Page 5


引言 測試前言 開箱 SPD INFO GIGABYTE Z790 AERO G測試結果 MSI - Page 5




yujihw.com






i have no idea why so many ppl saying gskill sticks are so cool out of the box when 6400 hynix m die is out.
that's even more ridiculous than saying there is no apex 2021 issue at all.


----------



## FarmerJo

cstkl1 said:


> which ram?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-m-0006.zip
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


gskill ddr5 6400 sticks. got them to 6800 c34 right now but cant push further since im voltage limited


----------



## Raphie

I’m waiting on the next HEDT update, 8 dimms 300k throughput.


----------



## don1376

I use pair of these with extra piece of thermal pad on pmic. Dropped my ram Temps by over 10c. My Renegades running at 7200 with 1.56v max temp is 43c. And they are cheap. Also with fan on them. 
LM YN Desktop Memory RAM Cooler Heat Sink Pure Copper for DIY PC Game Over Clocking MOD DDR DDR2 DDR3 DDR4 - Pack of 2 https://a.co/d/5zjKYUg


----------



## sulalin

FarmerJo said:


> hoping someone can help me. using a 2022 z690 apex with a 13900k and having issues raising memory voltages over 1.45. i can get settings stable at those volages but as soon as i increase the voltage i get errors. any weird settings i need to change on this board?


Lower your IMC voltage and set it to AUTO or manually set it below 1.385V! The higher the IMC voltage of the 13th generation CPU, the more unstable it is


----------



## sulalin

asdkj1740 said:


> open bench without gpu, gskill 7600 kit
> for 1.4v dram vdd and dram vddq, the spd temp can go up to 45c, with a 2000rpm fan blowing down.
> for 1.38v, it can go up to 43c, with a 2000rpm fan blowing down as well.
> for 1.45v/1.42v vdd/vddq, it can go up to 48c with a 2000rpm fan blowing down as well.
> so, try to turn the RGB off when gaming.
> 
> teamgroup delta rgb m die, for 1.57/1.55v, spd temp 48c only (with a 2000rpm fan).
> that's why i would recommend teamgroup 7200 a die kit over gskill sticks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 在Z790 6層板上測試G.SKILL TRIDENT Z5 RGB 7600MHZ 2*16G HYNIX A DIE - 悠二硬件Yujihw - Page 5
> 
> 
> 引言 測試前言 開箱 SPD INFO GIGABYTE Z790 AERO G測試結果 MSI - Page 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yujihw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have no idea why so many ppl saying gskill sticks are so cool out of the box when 6400 hynix m die is out.
> that's even more ridiculous than saying there is no apex 2021 issue at all.


Just compare the XMP timing parameter TRAS of T-FORCE and G.SKILL to know the difference. This is why G.SKILL from MDIE 6400XMP CL 32 3939 102 to ADIE's TRAS has to be enlarged to 10X 11X 12X to pass the stability. sex test

And T-FORCE's XMP TRAS are almost always 76/77 84, which can pass the stability at a lower voltage

By the way, the partnership between T-FORCE and G.SKILL in the original HYNIX factory is different

Probably when a new generation of chips or new chips are produced, T-FORCE can give priority to selecting chips and picking them out. This is why T-FORCE is the first memory manufacturer to release DDR5 ADIE because it can get chips earlier and take them out. The obtained particles have to be screened again, there may be 30,000 ICs, and only 20,000 ICs of comparable physical quality are screened, and then 20,000 ICs are used to make finished products! After the finished products come out, each pair must be manually selected. It must pass 7800MHZ and 1.35-1.4V MEMTEST on the 4DIMM version before it can be sent to the package and then sold

This is also why there is a difference in the quality of the memory that each player buys from T-FORCE's commercially available memory! Because each pair of new commercially available memory is manually selected in pairs and then shipped after MEMTEST is completed.

I don't think any other manufacturer would do this, which would lead to a big difference in the quality and physique of commercially available memory!


----------



## morph.

sulalin said:


> Just compare the XMP timing parameter TRAS of T-FORCE and G.SKILL to know the difference. This is why G.SKILL from MDIE 6400XMP CL 32 3939 102 to ADIE's TRAS has to be enlarged to 10X 11X 12X to pass the stability. sex test
> 
> And T-FORCE's XMP TRAS are almost always 76/77 84, which can pass the stability at a lower voltage
> 
> By the way, the partnership between T-FORCE and G.SKILL in the original HYNIX factory is different
> 
> Probably when a new generation of chips or new chips are produced, T-FORCE can give priority to selecting chips and picking them out. This is why T-FORCE is the first memory manufacturer to release DDR5 ADIE because it can get chips earlier and take them out. The obtained particles have to be screened again, there may be 30,000 ICs, and only 20,000 ICs of comparable physical quality are screened, and then 20,000 ICs are used to make finished products! After the finished products come out, each pair must be manually selected. It must pass 7800MHZ and 1.35-1.4V MEMTEST on the 4DIMM version before it can be sent to the package and then sold
> 
> This is also why there is a difference in the quality of the memory that each player buys from T-FORCE's commercially available memory! Because each pair of new commercially available memory is manually selected in pairs and then shipped after MEMTEST is completed.
> 
> I don't think any other manufacturer would do this, which would lead to a big difference in the quality and physique of commercially available memory!


Sounds very interesting however gskill do run tighter factory timings on tcl/trcd& trp.


----------



## asdkj1740

morph. said:


> Sounds very interesting however gskill do run tighter factory timings on tcl/trcd& trp.


because they run their stick without heatsink attached in factory?


----------



## cstkl1

sulalin said:


> Just compare the XMP timing parameter TRAS of T-FORCE and G.SKILL to know the difference. This is why G.SKILL from MDIE 6400XMP CL 32 3939 102 to ADIE's TRAS has to be enlarged to 10X 11X 12X to pass the stability. sex test
> 
> And T-FORCE's XMP TRAS are almost always 76/77 84, which can pass the stability at a lower voltage
> 
> By the way, the partnership between T-FORCE and G.SKILL in the original HYNIX factory is different
> 
> Probably when a new generation of chips or new chips are produced, T-FORCE can give priority to selecting chips and picking them out. This is why T-FORCE is the first memory manufacturer to release DDR5 ADIE because it can get chips earlier and take them out. The obtained particles have to be screened again, there may be 30,000 ICs, and only 20,000 ICs of comparable physical quality are screened, and then 20,000 ICs are used to make finished products! After the finished products come out, each pair must be manually selected. It must pass 7800MHZ and 1.35-1.4V MEMTEST on the 4DIMM version before it can be sent to the package and then sold
> 
> This is also why there is a difference in the quality of the memory that each player buys from T-FORCE's commercially available memory! Because each pair of new commercially available memory is manually selected in pairs and then shipped after MEMTEST is completed.
> 
> I don't think any other manufacturer would do this, which would lead to a big difference in the quality and physique of commercially available memory!


dont think this is true dude 

is this your opinion ? or a fact backed up by insider info??


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> dont think this is true dude
> 
> is this your opinion ? or a fact backed up by insider info??


I have heard that the owner of G.skill is actually the uncle of the T-force CEO. Right now they are not talking because of this. I have no data to back this up, but its true.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> I have heard that the owner of G.skill is actually the uncle of the T-force CEO. Right now they are not talking because of this. I have no data to back this up, but its true.


dis now spinning off to drama series bro. 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> dont think this is true dude
> 
> is this your opinion ? or a fact backed up by insider info??


considering teamgroup is the first dram vendor who releases hynix m die 6000/6200/6400 stick back in the oct/nov 2021, teamgroup definitely has good sources of hynix die.
back in the days gskill was still throwing their best 3636e samsung b die kits to the market. and then soon replaced 3636e with 3636f.
3636e=36-36-36-76 1.3v
3636f=36-36-36-96 1.35v


----------



## Luke77

Hello i tried to oc my ddr5 G.skill 6400 32 39 39 102 into 6400 28 38 38 28 VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.60 Sa1.25 MC 1.35.
I want something daily for gamin with good latency but i am afraid that 1.60 is too much.
Could someone tell me if i could improve or it s best ??
Ps i couldn t post at 6600 ect....
I have always error on memtest when i go under 37 even 32 37 37 102 ect.....


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> considering teamgroup is the first dram vendor who releases hynix m die 6000/6200/6400 stick back in the oct/nov 2021, teamgroup definitely has good sources of hynix die.
> back in the days gskill was still throwing their best 3636e samsung b die kits to the market. and then soon replaced 3636e with 3636f.
> 3636e=36-36-36-76 1.3v
> 3636f=36-36-36-96 1.35v


what doesnt make sense is the numbers u guys saying. 

i find gskill anywhere in any country ddr5,ddr4

u saying teamgroup has so much rams chipset

we should do a poll. hynix adie/mdie with kingston thrown in.


----------



## coulternoj

Very nice latency for only 7200 MT


----------



## 2500k_2

*7300_32_mdie







*


----------



## 2500k_2

coulternoj said:


> Very nice latency for only 7200 MT











13700k has lower latency than 13900k. Keep this in mind.


----------



## coulternoj

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2580053
> 
> 13700k has lower latency than 13900k. Keep this in mind.


I know this, which is why I prefer my 13700K to my 13900K, and as to my statement about nice latency at 7200MT note it's 5ns better than the results on this chart at 7800.


----------



## 2500k_2

del


----------



## jollib

2500k_2 said:


> *7300_32_mdie
> View attachment 2580052
> *


What bios version is this?


----------



## centvalny

asdkj1740 said:


> i have no idea why so many ppl saying gskill sticks are so cool out of the box when 6400 hynix m die is out.
> that's even more ridiculous than saying there is no apex 2021 issue at all.


Because for 6400 mdie bin most can do 7200c32 benchable and 1:3 kits do 7600+c32 tights air benchable. For this particular speed on 690 and adl gskill is easier to bin









Next will be on 790 and rkl


----------



## Ketku-

Do you know guys what overall different is 13900K+Z690 vs 13900K+Z790?

Not good with memory OC Z690 or what are differents?


----------



## 2500k_2

jollib said:


> What bios version is this?


official latest - 7D29v191


----------



## Carillo

Ketku- said:


> Do you know guys what overall different is 13900K+Z690 vs 13900K+Z790?
> 
> Not good with memory OC Z690 or what are differents?


Z790 Apex arriving tomorrow or Thursday , will compare my results


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> Do you know guys what overall different is 13900K+Z690 vs 13900K+Z790?
> 
> Not good with memory OC Z690 or what are differents?


Running both here now, and both options are VERY good. Atleast with a good z690 Apex. White z790 Apex is worth ALOT, just because the white


----------



## z390e

Videocardz has the Gigabyte PR piece up for their new motherboards and tbh the DDR5 performance looks pretty good.









Enthusiast AORUS Z790 motherboards support XMP DDR5-8000/8333 profiles, up to DDR5-9300 OC - VideoCardz.com


Push Beyond the Limits! Go XMP DDR5-8333 with GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Motherboards Z790 AORUS XTREME and MASTER achieve DDR5-8000 while Z790 AORUS TACHYON hits XMP DDR5-8333 and DDR5-9300 O.C. by air cooling October 31st, 2022 – GIGABYTE TECHNOLOGY Co. Ltd, a leading manufacturer of motherboards...




videocardz.com






Edit: They have BCLK OC'd so the AIDA result is sus


----------



## Nizzen

Does g.skill 7600 kit sux, because I can't see any good results with it 🤣


----------



## ViTosS

z390e said:


> Videocardz has the Gigabyte PR piece up for their new motherboards and tbh the DDR5 performance looks pretty good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enthusiast AORUS Z790 motherboards support XMP DDR5-8000/8333 profiles, up to DDR5-9300 OC - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Push Beyond the Limits! Go XMP DDR5-8333 with GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Motherboards Z790 AORUS XTREME and MASTER achieve DDR5-8000 while Z790 AORUS TACHYON hits XMP DDR5-8333 and DDR5-9300 O.C. by air cooling October 31st, 2022 – GIGABYTE TECHNOLOGY Co. Ltd, a leading manufacturer of motherboards...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


Nice, do you know how can I get this MemTest interface? I have the Pro version that I bought in the past in there is nowhere near close to have these custimozation options


----------



## bigfootnz

I've finally managed to stabilize 7400C34 on Unify-X on air. These high frequencies on air are huge pain in but, and I'm seriously thinking of water cooling RAM. I know that I can do probably tighter timings, but due to high temp on air cooling it is pointless. Temperature during BF5 are 36-38C, depending of outside temperatures, and I'm happy with that. I really hate that IML do not work at the moment with RKL and DDR5, as AIDA is crap.
Voltages are VDD/VDDQ 1.53v, VVD2 1.4v and VDDQ TX 1.39v











































Now back to playing games, enough of this RAM torture.


----------



## Wolverine2349

I got G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 7200 CL34-45-45-115 with my 13900K

F5-7200J3445G15GX2-TZ5RK

It is not totally stable at XMP1 nor XMP2 settings as it intermittently will BSOD or fail running OCCT Variable Large Data Set. And I know its not CPU or something else as I have CPU downclocked to 5GHz with e-cores off and it still errors out. And to make sure I had set RAM to default settings which makes it run at 4800MHz with CL40 and OCCT passes multiple times no errors at all, so definitely RAM.

Is there a specific timing or setting I need to adjust for full stability??

Using Asus ROG Strix Z790-F motherboard and this RAM is on its QVL list.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Wolverine2349 said:


> I got G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 7200 CL34-45-45-115 with my 13900K
> 
> F5-7200J3445G15GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> It is not totally stable at XMP1 nor XMP2 settings as it intermittently will BSOD or fail running OCCT Variable Large Data Set. And I know its not CPU or something else as I have CPU downclocked to 5GHz with e-cores off and it still errors out. And to make sure I had set RAM to default settings which makes it run at 4800MHz with CL40 and OCCT passes multiple times no errors at all, so definitely RAM.
> 
> Is there a specific timing or setting I need to adjust for full stability??
> 
> Using Asus ROG Strix Z790-F motherboard and this RAM is on its QVL list.


Load default bios settings, then able xmp. Start from scratch cpu overclock.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Does g.skill 7600 kit sux, because I can't see any good results with it 🤣


tell u in a day or two. curiosity got da better of me


----------



## Wolverine2349

cstkl1 said:


> disable E core club?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. whats with everybody doing this on RPL when theres no significant penalty on cache.. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


Better temps and thermals. Hate hybrid arch and want to use WIN10. Intel has no 8 P core only option with 36MB or more L3 cache.

Its not just the ring.

And just the 8 P cores running 5.5GHz or higher on air causes very high power consumption above 200 watt. Imagine that with e-cores also enabled. Thats 4 more sized P core to add to extreme hot power consumption to keep thermals under control even under a Big Noctua NH-D15S


----------



## Wolverine2349

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Load default bios settings, then able xmp. Start from scratch cpu overclock.



Do you know if this G.Skill Tident Z5 F5-7200J3445G15GX2-TZ5RK is MDie or Adie

Cannot seem to find an answer.

Someone had mentioned that no kits of 7000+ MHz come in MDie. Though someone else also said as of October 12 that ADie G.Skill kits were not yet out??


----------



## bscool

Nizzen said:


> Does g.skill 7600 kit sux, because I can't see any good results with it 🤣


Just my kit and so far 7200 V color and 7200 Team are easier to get working. Need to test more but so far not impressed. I figured it would be the same as the other 2 A die but it is picky about voltages cant get it to even run 7400 y cruncher.

Edit MB 2022 Apex/13900k bios 0006

Could be user error and really havent played with it much.

Working so well I am running 4800/jdec to catch and read the board/forum 😄


----------



## Qwer99

Does anyone have a benchmark comparing the performance of m-die oc and a-die oc?
I think I've seen it before, but I can't find it.


----------



## bscool

Gskill 7600 kit

Look like one of the stick is weak/defective. I tested each stick in each slot and one can run 7600 y cruncher using the Apex 7600 profile timigns and voltages the other stick can only do 7200. Even with XMP setting the 1 can only do 7200.

Both 7200 v color and Team can do 7400 y cruncher so looks like the Gskill 7600 kit would be better if I had 2 good sticks.

V color and Team can boot 8000 and run Adia64. This gskill 7600 kits cant bench Adia at 8000. I know not a stress test just saying that the other 2 kits have been able to do that on this MB and CPU 2022 Apex bios 0006/13900k.

I am going to put the Team and v color 7200 kits back in and test. Maybe it is something else Ill update if the Team/v color kits wont work at 7400 like they had been.

Edit put the v color back in with same setting and both sticks ran 7400 1b. I also see I didnt have the taskbar showing for date and time on gskill. Oh well hope rma or return is easy with these.


----------



## morph.

bleeding edge seems to always be problematic


----------



## cstkl1

Qwer99 said:


> Does anyone have a benchmark comparing the performance of m-die oc and a-die oc?
> I think I've seen it before, but I can't find it.


i think korean forum posted


----------



## Gadfly

Carillo said:


> Where did you get that data from ?
> 
> Strange g.skill haven't learned how to cool pmic's. But i guess they dont think high temps is an issue. Water is the way to go if pushing 1,6vdd or more for 24/7 no matter what kit you have. Nothing more annoying than listening to high rpm fans, and stability goes out the window going over 50c on high voltage.


Well it isn’t even pmic temp, there is separate thermistor next to the PMIC. It also doesn’t matter, that PMIC is rated upto something stupid like 100’C.

The “Spd hub” temp in hwinfo has nothing to do with die temp, or memory stability. As long as the high pmic temp flag isn’t tripped it’s fine.


----------



## Carillo

Gadfly said:


> Well it isn’t even pmic temp, there is separate thermistor next to the PMIC. It also doesn’t matter, that PMIC is rated upto something stupid like 100’C.
> 
> The “Spd hub” temp in hwinfo has nothing to do with die temp, or memory stability. As long as the high pmic temp flag isn’t tripped it’s fine.


Of course that temp has everything to do about stability when overclocking! The termistor is close to the pmic and its the only readout from the stick. It sits on the same cold plate as IC's ( when pads is mounted) , so it's a good indication in our IC temp. The stick is putting out max 5-6 watt, so there is hardly any delta between components. So what you are saying, is IC temp does not matter for OC stability ? I should remove my water blocks then


----------



## Talon2016

bscool said:


> Gskill 7600 kit
> 
> Look like one of the stick is weak/defective. I tested each stick in each slot and one can run 7600 y cruncher using the Apex 7600 profile timigns and voltages the other stick can only do 7200. Even with XMP setting the 1 can only do 7200.
> 
> Both 7200 v color and Team can do 7400 y cruncher so looks like the Gskill 7600 kit would be better if I had 2 good sticks.
> 
> V color and Team can boot 8000 and run Adia64. This gskill 7600 kits cant bench Adia at 8000. I know not a stress test just saying that the other 2 kits have been able to do that on this MB and CPU 2022 Apex bios 0006/13900k.
> 
> I am going to put the Team and v color 7200 kits back in and test. Maybe it is something else Ill update if the Team/v color kits wont work at 7400 like they had been.
> 
> Edit put the v color back in with same setting and both sticks ran 7400 1b. I also see I didnt have the taskbar showing for date and time on gskill. Oh well hope rma or return is easy with these.


Your VDDQ TX is too high. 1.4v is not going to work. Set that 10% lower than your DRAM VDD/VDDQ. So like 1.26v VDDQ TX should do for 1.4v VDD/VDDQ


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Just my kit and so far 7200 V color and 7200 Team are easier to get working. Need to test more but so far not impressed. I figured it would be the same as the other 2 A die but it is picky about voltages cant get it to even run 7400 y cruncher.
> 
> Edit MB 2022 Apex/13900k bios 0006
> 
> Could be user error and really havent played with it much.
> 
> Working so well I am running 4800/jdec to catch and read the board/forum 😄


thats odd already. adie picky with voltage


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Your VDDQ TX is too high. 1.4v is not going to work. Set that 10% lower than your DRAM VDD/VDDQ. So like 1.26v VDDQ TX should do for 1.4v VDD/VDDQ


its fine with my 6600


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Of course that temp has everything to do about stability when overclocking! The termistor is close to the pmic and its the only readout from the stick. It sits on the same cold plate as IC's ( when pads is mounted) , so it's a good indication in our IC temp. The stick is putting out max 5-6 watt, so there is hardly any delta between components. So what you are saying, is IC temp does not matter for OC stability ? I should remove my water blocks then


heat trap also


----------



## bscool

Talon2016 said:


> Your VDDQ TX is too high. 1.4v is not going to work. Set that 10% lower than your DRAM VDD/VDDQ. So like 1.26v VDDQ TX should do for 1.4v VDD/VDDQ


I tried that still didnt make a difference. Tried different voltages and still havent found anything that works,

Ill test it some more though. Thanks


----------



## Talon2016

bscool said:


> I tried that still didnt make a difference. Tried from 1.3 to 1.35, 1.38 etc.
> 
> Ill test it some more though. Thanks


Try as low as 1.2 and work up?


----------



## bscool

Talon2016 said:


> Try as low as 1.2 and work up?


Yeah, tried. Even on the Team and V color. Do you have Apex/Asus? From what I have seen it need more than other MBs like Dark and MSI.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Yeah, tried. Even on the Team and V color. Do you have Apex/Asus? From what I have seen it need more than other MBs like Dark and MSI.


i think its your cpu


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Yeah, tried. Even on the Team and V color. Do you have Apex/Asus? From what I have seen it need more than other MBs like Dark and MSI.


if ure using frame. can u try not using it.. 🤔


----------



## bscool

@cstkl1

How is it my CPU or frame when 4 different CPUs( 3 12900k/kf/ks and 1 13900k) work fine with 3 different kits of M die do 7000c30 and 2 kits (team and v color) of A die do 7400c36.

It is the 1 stick of 7600 gskill that can only do 7200 for y cruncher and fails Karhu within minutes in either slot. The other stick of g skill does 7600 in either slot.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Carillo said:


> Of course that temp has everything to do about stability when overclocking! The termistor is close to the pmic and its the only readout from the stick. It sits on the same cold plate as IC's ( when pads is mounted) , so it's a good indication in our IC temp. The stick is putting out max 5-6 watt, so there is hardly any delta between components. So what you are saying, is IC temp does not matter for OC stability ? I should remove my water blocks then


2 different things.

What you say = Cooling down PMIC helps stability

What he say = Gskill tought cooling PMIC is not necessary because the chip itself is rated for 100C. AFAIK If someone use at XMP its absolutely pointless.I put 1600 rpm Silent Wings 3 fan on top of Z5's ( 1.45 6800 medicore tight sub ) and it never go above 45c in TM5.

Also cooling only DRAM vs DRAM + PMIC is more heat to deal with.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> How is it my CPU or frame when 4 different CPUs( 3 12900k/kf/ks and 1 13900k) work fine with 3 different kits of M die do 7000c30 and 2 kits (team and v color) of A die do 7400c36.
> 
> It is the 1 stick of 7600 gskill that can only do 7200 for y cruncher and fails Karhu within minutes in either slot. The other stick of g skill does 7600 in either slot.


no harm in trying not using it. 🤔


----------



## Luke77

No one for helping me on last post ?


----------



## Carillo

bscool said:


> I tried that still didnt make a difference. Tried different voltages and still havent found anything that works,
> 
> Ill test it some more though. Thanks


I run 1.4 TX on all my stable profiles , not matter what vdd is. Always on auto, no issues


----------



## Carillo

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> 2 different things.
> 
> What you say = Cooling down PMIC helps stability
> 
> What he say = Gskill tought cooling PMIC is not necessary because the chip itself is rated for 100C. AFAIK If someone use at XMP its absolutely pointless.I put 1600 rpm Silent Wings 3 fan on top of Z5's ( 1.45 6800 medicore tight sub ) and it never go above 45c in TM5.
> 
> Also cooling only DRAM vs DRAM + PMIC is more heat to deal with.


Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## bscool

Luke77 said:


> Hello i tried to oc my ddr5 G.skill 6400 32 39 39 102 into 6400 28 38 38 28 VDD 1.60 VDDQ 1.60 Sa1.25 MC 1.35.
> I want something daily for gamin with good latency but i am afraid that 1.60 is too much.
> Could someone tell me if i could improve or it s best ??
> Ps i couldn t post at 6600 ect....
> I have always error on memtest when i go under 37 even 32 37 37 102 ect.....
> View attachment 2580038
> View attachment 2580038
> View attachment 2580039
> View attachment 2580040
> View attachment 2580041
> View attachment 2580042


Do you have a fan directly on the ram or water cooling the dims? No way you will be able to get 1.6v memtest stable without some good cooling on the dims.


----------



## Carillo

bscool said:


> Do you have a fan directly on the ram or water cooling the dims? No way you will be able to get 1.6v memtest stable without some good cooling on the dims.


From my experience , 1,45-1,47 ish is max voltage for 24/7 stability on air cooling. If you take a closer look at the so called coolers , you understand they function more as an heat insulator than cooler. Naked die is actually better then the insulators if water is not an option.


----------



## Raphie

Yep, cosmetics an glorified RGB LED holder 
and yes, 6400 gskill going beyond 1.45vdd 6800 you’ll arive at the point of diminishing returns very quickly.


----------



## Luke77

bscool said:


> Do you have a fan directly on the ram or water cooling the dims? No way you will be able to get 1.6v memtest stable without some good cooling on the dims.


No i have no fan on it nothing and it was stable even 3dmark game aida ect.....i came back to default because i don t want to break my ram and i am wating some good values to be using dailly for gaming but no one helped me right now
The highest temp was 65 °


----------



## bigfootnz

Carillo said:


> From my experience , 1,45-1,47 ish is max voltage for 24/7 stability on air cooling. If you take a closer look at the so called coolers , you understand they function more as an heat insulator than cooler. Naked die is actually better then the insulators if water is not an option.


Do you have any numbers comparing naked die vs ram with heatsink cooling on air. If it is like 2-3C difference then maybe I could remove my ram heatsink?


----------



## ChaosAD

Carillo said:


> From my experience , 1,45-1,47 ish is max voltage for 24/7 stability on air cooling. If you take a closer look at the so called coolers , you understand they function more as an heat insulator than cooler. Naked die is actually better then the insulators if water is not an option.


I run GSkill at 1.5vvd/1.45vddq in a closed Fractal Torrent case with RGB on (off saves like 5c) and a Noctua NF-A12 fan at around 1000rpm, idle 31c load 49c. My guess is its good to push up to 1.55vdd with no heat issues.


----------



## Carillo

ChaosAD said:


> I run GSkill at 1.5vvd/1.45vddq in a closed Fractal Torrent case with RGB on (off saves like 5c) and a Noctua NF-A12 fan at around 1000rpm, idle 31c load 49c. My guess is its good to push up to 1.55vdd with no heat issues.


My experience can of course differ from other kits/users.... But please post a stability test showing voltage and temps.


----------



## don1376

Carillo said:


> From my experience , 1,45-1,47 ish is max voltage for 24/7 stability on air cooling. If you take a closer look at the so called coolers , you understand they function more as an heat insulator than cooler. Naked die is actually better then the insulators if water is not an option.


Not necessarily, their are some amazon coppoer heatspreades for $10 a pair that have adhesive thermal pads to stick to ics and back of module and with an added piece of thermal pad over pmic dropped my Temps by 10c underload. At 1.55v I get max mem temp of 43c after hours of benching ram. Alao have fan blowing at them. Before them my Renegades at 6800 would reach almost 56c. Now they are at 7200 and reach 43c. For what it's worth.


----------



## don1376

bigfootnz said:


> Do you have any numbers comparing naked die vs ram with heatsink cooling on air. If it is like 2-3C difference then maybe I could remove my ram heatsink?


I posted some number while back. Not sure where they are now but naked was couple degrees cooler then factory heatspreaders on my Renegades but copper heat spreaders dropped temp by over 10c.


----------



## bscool

don1376 said:


> I posted some number while back. Not sure where they are now but naked was couple degrees cooler then factory heatspreaders on my Renegades but copper heat spreaders dropped temp by over 10c.


Here









*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Hello, I bought some g gskill 6400….is there any way to cool them down correctly? Like replacing the thermal pads? Thanks




www.overclock.net













*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Are you trying to re-use the stock heat spreaders? Is so, don't. It is better to run bare with a fan blowing on them. If you are using an aftermarket heat spreader they should use paste, not pads. For the PMIC use a 1mm non-conductive pad that only covers the PMIC itself. If you read my above...




www.overclock.net


----------



## cstkl1

bios 075 - z790 apex

trcd write?? 0 also can.

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


----------



## ihog6hog

Wolverine2349 said:


> Do you know if this G.Skill Tident Z5 F5-7200J3445G15GX2-TZ5RK is MDie or Adie
> 
> Cannot seem to find an answer.
> 
> Someone had mentioned that no kits of 7000+ MHz come in MDie. Though someone else also said as of October 12 that ADie G.Skill kits were not yet out??


Your kit = A

Try

1. flash mei fw 16.1.25.2020 from [FIRMWARE] Intel ME (H610/B660/H670/Z690/B760/H770/Z790)

2. & flash new bios from RaptorLake Resources


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> I got G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 7200 CL34-45-45-115 with my 13900K
> 
> F5-7200J3445G15GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> It is not totally stable at XMP1 nor XMP2 settings as it intermittently will BSOD or fail running OCCT Variable Large Data Set. And I know its not CPU or something else as I have CPU downclocked to 5GHz with e-cores off and it still errors out. And to make sure I had set RAM to default settings which makes it run at 4800MHz with CL40 and OCCT passes multiple times no errors at all, so definitely RAM.
> 
> Is there a specific timing or setting I need to adjust for full stability??
> 
> Using Asus ROG Strix Z790-F motherboard and this RAM is on its QVL list.


Maybe clear cmos and load xmp1 and then set speed manually to 7000 and see if it works?


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Maybe clear cmos and load xmp1 and then set speed manually to 7000 and see if it works?



Did that and it still freezes or BSOD at random point of OCCT Variable Large Data Set test.

Even tried going down to 6400 and same issue with 32-39-39-102 timings which is what the XMP of the 6400 kit is and it still will freeze or BSOD 10-50 minutes into OCCT.

Going to try the BIOS updates listed above from ihog6hog.

Strange the highest and only BIOS on the Asus site for ROG Strix Z790--F is 0502. Not sure why they would not have 0703 on their site for this board and you have to go to forums for it.


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> Did that and it still freezes or BSOD at random point of OCCT Variable Large Data Set test.
> 
> Even tried going down to 6400 and same issue with 32-39-39-102 timings which is what the XMP of the 6400 kit is and it still will freeze or BSOD 10-50 minutes into OCCT.
> 
> Going to try the BIOS updates listed above from ihog6hog.
> 
> Strange the highest and only BIOS on the Asus site for ROG Strix Z790--F is 0502. Not sure why they would not have 0703 on their site for this board and you have to go to forums for it.


No doubt.


----------



## tubs2x4

tubs2x4 said:


> No doubt.


Oh so this is 6400 xmp kit not a 7200 kit…. Must have misread that.


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Oh so this is 6400 xmp kit not a 7200 kit…. Must have misread that.



It is a 7200 kit. I was just trying lower speeds to see if it could be stable as I was having such a hard time with it it.

At first I thought it was my overclock of CPU speed being unstable. But then I found it was RAM XMP settings.


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> It is a 7200 kit. I was just trying lower speeds to see if it could be stable as I was having such a hard time with it it.
> 
> At first I thought it was my overclock of CPU speed being unstable. But then I found it was RAM XMP settings.


Hope the bios update works


----------



## grilli4nt

13900k, MB is z790 strix-f. Should the g skill 6400 cl32 m-die be a good fit here or should I opt for the 7200cl34 a-die? About 150 dollars price diff. It's all subjective, obviously, but if there ever was a "sweet spot" for 13900k, where would you say it is? I also have an order for a z790 hero, trying to figure out whether to go all out or not...


----------



## Carillo

Really looking forward to some alone time with her 😅


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Really looking forward to some alone time with her 😅
> View attachment 2580204


Retail


----------



## Luke77

would like to know if someone can give me a good timing and voltage for daily use to improve 6400 for gaming ?


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Hope the bios update works



Did not work. OCCT was running Standard Large Data Set Variable Test smoothly than around 40 minutes froze and BSOD with XMP1 profile. Always passed flying colors multiple 1 hour runs on old BIOS at default SPD 4800MHz just sees to refuse to work with XMP fully stable!!

Is my RAM bad, is 7200MHz just not stable with all IMCs in Gear 2. Though I did try Gear 4 and it BSOD before even getting into Windows twice so probably not that as Gear 4 seemed worse when Gear 4 should be much easier on CPU IMC.

Or do motherboards unless they are 2 DIMM even Z790 boards just not like such high RAM speed as it is XMP and so new and not well tested nor trained??


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> Did not work. OCCT was running Standard Large Data Set Variable Test smoothly than around 40 minutes froze and BSOD with XMP1 profile. Always passed flying colors multiple 1 hour runs on old BIOS at default SPD 4800MHz just sees to refuse to work with XMP fully stable!!
> 
> Is my RAM bad, is 7200MHz just not stable with all IMCs in Gear 2. Though I did try Gear 4 and it BSOD before even getting into Windows twice so probably not that as Gear 4 seemed worse when Gear 4 should be much easier on CPU IMC.
> 
> Or do motherboards unless they are 2 DIMM even Z790 boards just not like such high RAM speed as it is XMP and so new and not well tested nor trained??


Could try installing 1 stick of ram in a2 first then if it works try second stick in a2. If all good repeat on b2. Something should show up. If all fails run the voltage up more on the ram
Maybe. Or just try that first. Add 25 mv to the ram voltages and see what happens. What’s your ram temp at 40 min?


----------



## don1376

Luke77 said:


> would like to know if someone can give me a good timing and voltage for daily use to improve 6400 for gaming ?





Luke77 said:


> would like to know if someone can give me a good timing and voltage for daily use to improve 6400 for gaming ?


could try this although its for 6800.


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Could try installing 1 stick of ram in a2 first then if it works try second stick in a2. If all good repeat on b2. Something should show up. If all fails run the voltage up more on the ram
> Maybe. Or just try that first. Add 25 mv to the ram voltages and see what happens. What’s your ram temp at 40 min?



RAM temp is 49C on each DIMM per HWInfo64. What is the maximum temp it should be??


----------



## Nizzen

Wolverine2349 said:


> RAM temp is 49C on each DIMM per HWInfo64. What is the maximum temp it should be??


as low as possible 
Under 40c, and things are more easy to get stable. Under 30c, even better


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> RAM temp is 49C on each DIMM per HWInfo64. What is the maximum temp it should be??


That doesn’t seem bad. Can you put a fan over them or close by to blow on them. Give it another go?


----------



## rulik006

Carillo said:


> Really looking forward to some alone time with her 😅
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2580204


Apex Z690/Z790 feeling so cheap and trashy compared to Dark. Im sure it cost cheaper to manufacture than Hero
And first m.2 radiator mounting is really bad, can broke off easily


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> Apex Z690/Z790 feeling so cheap and trashy compared to Dark. Im sure it cost cheaper to manufacture than Hero
> And first m.2 radiator mounting is really bad, can broke off easily


You tested both z790 Apex and z790 Dark?


----------



## Wolverine2349

Nizzen said:


> as low as possible
> Under 40c, and things are more easy to get stable. Under 30c, even better



Its really that picky. Needs a fan to have even lower temps when 50C and even way higher is golden for CPUs and GPUs??

I hardly have any space to put a fan by them.

Is there a die of DDR5 6000MHz or faster that can run at low temps or tolerate higher temps and be stable without needing a fan??

Like how would this kit be:



Amazon.com



I know it is slower at 6000MHz, but would this run well at XMP 6000MHz with its timings any better without having to put a fan.

I am using a Noctua NH-D15 and barely any room for fans by the RAM.

The Corsair is lower profile so would that help and how is the quality of that DDR5 die for running at 6000MHz at its XMP settings??


----------



## don1376

Was able to get my 6400c32 Kingston Renegades a little tighter at 7200c32 @ 1.56v. Tested overnight with max temp 43c. Still can't seem to get latency below 55ns according to licenses and updated version of Aida.


----------



## newls1

don1376 said:


> Was able to get my 6400c32 Kingston Renegades a little tighter at 7200c32 @ 1.56v. Tested overnight with max temp 43c. Still can't seem to get latency below 55ns according to licenses and updated version of Aida.
> View attachment 2580229


i cant believe you can boot with rdwr's @ 19! My unify x wont boot with anything less then 20


----------



## Carillo

i[/QUOTE]


rulik006 said:


> Apex Z690/Z790 feeling so cheap and trashy compared to Dark. Im sure it cost cheaper to manufacture than Hero
> And first m.2 radiator mounting is really bad, can broke off easily


You think ? Guess my standards are lower than yours then. Looks and feels great iMO


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> Its really that picky. Needs a fan to have even lower temps when 50C and even way higher is golden for CPUs and GPUs??
> 
> I hardly have any space to put a fan by them.
> 
> Is there a die of DDR5 6000MHz or faster that can run at low temps or tolerate higher temps and be stable without needing a fan??
> 
> Like how would this kit be:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is slower at 6000MHz, but would this run well at XMP 6000MHz with its timings any better without having to put a fan.
> 
> I am using a Noctua NH-D15 and barely any room for fans by the RAM.
> 
> The Corsair is lower profile so would that help and how is the quality of that DDR5 die for running at 6000MHz at its XMP settings??


That kit at xmp would be fine. But I would first try doing something with temps before you buy more ram. Even a small 60mm fan right on top of the sticks will drop 7-10c. But I’m sure you will have no issue selling the 7200 kit or return them if your in that window.


----------



## Gadfly

Carillo said:


> Of course that temp has everything to do about stability when overclocking!


The thermistor temp (or that of PMIC itself) has no impact on memory OC and Stability. If your PMIC thermistor is running at 55'C, and the Mem IC's are running at 35'C, the PMIC thermistor running hotter will have no impact on stability when overclocking. The two are completely un-related. That is why it really doesn't matter that the gskill dimms don't have a pad on the PMIC, they don't need one, and having one does not improve memory stability. 



> The termistor is close to the pmic and its the only readout from the stick. It sits on the same cold plate as IC's (when pads is mounted) , so it's a good indication in our IC temp.The stick is putting out max 5-6 watt, so there is hardly any delta between components.


That is not the same thing. You are attempting to use the thermistor temp output as an indication of the IC temp, which it absolutely is not. When you put MB VRM's on the same cold plate as the CPU with a mono-block, are VRM temps an indicator of CPU core temps? No. Same applies here. The Mem IC temp and the PMIC thermistor temps are not at all the same; even if you put a thermal pad on the thermistor (which you most likely did not) and even if on the same cold plate; the temperature differential is substantial. If you attach a thermal probe to the IC's you will see that directly; A die's running at 1.55V had an IC surface temp of 29'C while the PMIC thermistor was reporting 40'C. The temperature difference is at a minimum significant. 

Here is the reference layout of the PMIc/Spd Hub from Renesas: 










Here is the Renesas documentation of the TS5111 thermistor:
TS5111 - Temperature Sensor for DDR5 Memory Modules | Renesas 

Here is a Gskill dimm with the Renesas PMIC/Spd hub with the TS5111 temp sensor circled in Red, notice the distance from the PMIC itself; also notice that it is as far away as possible from the memory IC's. If you put a thermal pad on the PMIC (Big IC in the middle that gets hot); that still is not directly putting the thermistor on the same cold plate as the Temp sensor. 














> So what you are saying, is IC temp does not matter for OC stability ? I should remove my water blocks then


No. I never said anything of the sort. What I said is that PMIC temperature is not IC temp, the temp in hwifo is not IC temp, That the two are completely un-related, and one is not a good indication of the temperature of the other. Lowering PMIC thermistor and/or the PMIC temperature has absolutely no impact on memory OC or stability. Adding a thermal pad to the PMIC to lower the temp shown in HWinfo does not lower IC temp, if anything you are just dumping more heat into the heat spreader and making your IC warmer than they would be without the PMIC thermal pad. 

Now if you want to put a thermal pad on the thermistor, and NOT the PMIC, to put the thermistor on the same cold plate as the memory IC's and use that as a very loose indicator of memory IC temp, that will at least make a little more sense; though it still would be highly inaccurate. 

TLDR: Mem IC temp is all that matters. The temp of the PMIC, the PMIC Thermistor reading / SPD Hub temp in hwinfo, and is completely irrelevant to memory stability. There is no need to put a thermal pad on the PMIC.


----------



## Carillo

Gadfly said:


> The thermistor temp (or that of PMIC itself) has no impact on memory OC and Stability. If your PMIC thermistor is running at 55'C, and the Mem IC's are running at 35'C, the PMIC thermistor running hotter will have no impact on stability when overclocking. The two are completely un-related. That is why it really doesn't matter that the gskill dimms don't have a pad on the PMIC, they don't need one, and having one does not improve memory stability.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the same thing. You are attempting to use the thermistor temp output as an indication of the IC temp, which it absolutely is not. When you put MB VRM's on the same cold plate as the CPU with a mono-block, are VRM temps an indicator of CPU core temps? No. Same applies here. The Mem IC temp and the PMIC thermistor temps are not at all the same; even if you put a thermal pad on the thermistor (which you most likely did not) and even if on the same cold plate; the temperature differential is substantial. If you attach a thermal probe to the IC's you will see that directly; A die's running at 1.55V had an IC surface temp of 29'C while the PMIC thermistor was reporting 40'C. The temperature difference is at a minimum significant.
> 
> Here is the reference layout of the PMIc/Spd Hub from Renesas:
> 
> View attachment 2580227
> 
> 
> Here is the Renesas documentation of the TS5111 thermistor:
> TS5111 - Temperature Sensor for DDR5 Memory Modules | Renesas
> 
> Here is a Gskill dimm with the Renesas PMIC/Spd hub with the TS5111 temp sensor circled in Red, notice the distance from the PMIC itself; also notice that it is as far away as possible from the memory IC's. If you put a thermal pad on the PMIC (Big IC in the middle that gets hot); that still is not directly putting the thermistor on the same cold plate as the Temp sensor.
> 
> View attachment 2580230
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. I never said anything of the sort. What I said is that PMIC temperature is not IC temp, the temp in hwifo is not IC temp, That the two are completely un-related, and one is not a good indication of the temperature of the other. Lowering PMIC thermistor and/or the PMIC temperature has absolutely no impact on memory OC or stability. Adding a thermal pad to the PMIC to lower the temp shown in HWinfo does not lower IC temp, if anything you are just dumping more heat into the heat spreader and making your IC warmer than they would be without the PMIC thermal pad.
> 
> Now if you want to put a thermal pad on the thermistor, and NOT the PMIC, to put the thermistor on the same cold plate as the memory IC's and use that as a very loose indicator of memory IC temp, that will at least make a little more sense; though it still would be highly inaccurate.
> 
> TLDR: Mem IC temp is all that matters. The temp of the PMIC, the PMIC Thermistor reading / SPD Hub temp in hwinfo, and is completely irrelevant to memory stability. There is no need to put a thermal pad on the PMIC.


This is just over complicating something really simple.

Pmic without thermal pad = trapped heat behind the cooler ( insulator) witch affects IC temp. I costs zero effort to mount a thermal pad to it , so why not ? I have alway done that with improved results.

SPD temp HW info = reference to cooling performance , lower is better. If you keep getting a 1-5 errors, big chance you will pass if you can lower IC temp. How do you know your iC temps are lowered , yes you guessed right. Check if your SPD temp has improved


----------



## don1376

newls1 said:


> i cant believe you can boot with rdwr's @ 19! My unify x wont boot with anything less then 20


Stable at 19. I can't boot with tCKE any lower and same with RDRDSG and WRWRSG. 

I seen someone else post something about tXP at 4. Haven't tried changing it. I don't know what it's for but mines at 24. Anyone know what tXP is and would lowering help latency?


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> That kit at xmp would be fine. But I would first try doing something with temps before you buy more ram. Even a small 60mm fan right on top of the sticks will drop 7-10c. But I’m sure you will have no issue selling the 7200 kit or return them if your in that window.



I am trying now with a 80mm CoolerMaster fan spinning 1300 RPM temporarily of course sitting in an area best I could position it like on edge of case sup[ported by Noctua NH-D15 and case wall on 2 sides as a temp test


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> I am trying now with a 80mm CoolerMaster fan spinning 1300 RPM< sitting in an area best I could position it like on edge of case sup[ported by Noctua NH-D15 and case wall on 2 sides as a temp test


Right on. Give that a go at least eliminate something out of this equation.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Wolverine2349 said:


> I am trying now with a 80mm CoolerMaster fan spinning 1300 RPM< sitting in an area best I could position it like on edge of case sup[ported by Noctua NH-D15 and case wall on 2 sides as a temp test



And low and behold as I was typing this just BSOD with temp in mid to high 30s for each DIMM per SPD hub temp reading.

The prior run just to test temps were in mid to high 40s with no errors thus far without the fan about 10 minutes in. Though eventually it would probably fail with a freeze/BSOD as it always was doing with any XMP settings.

Now it failed with the fan like 1 minute in with temps once again mid to high 30s.

So random and frustrating!!

Did not even get a chance to see if the fan how much it would lower temps and if it would help (Well I guess not) as this time it just wanted to fail so fast where as sometimes it would run plenty of time for me to see temps and find out.


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> And low and behold as I was typing this just BSOD with temp in mid to high 30s for each DIMM per SPD hub temp reading.
> 
> The prior run just to test temps were in mid to high 40s with no errors thus far without the fan about 10 minutes in. Though eventually it would probably fail with a freeze/BSOD as it always was doing with any XMP settings.
> 
> Now it failed with the fan like 1 minute in with temps once again mid to high 30s.
> 
> So random and frustrating!!
> 
> Did not even get a chance to see if the fan how much it would lower temps and if it would help (Well I guess not) as this time it just wanted to fail so fast where as sometimes it would run plenty of time for me to see temps and find out.


That sucks. Can you see what the board is setting for memory controller voltage, system agent voltage and ram voltage?


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> That sucks. Can you see what the board is setting for memory controller voltage, system agent voltage and ram voltage?





https://www.overclock.net/attachments/20221102_003413-1-jpg.2580134/












Raptor Lake 13th Gen DDR5/DDR4 IMC Discussion


I get mad coil whine when running Aida64 memory read and copy benchmarks. Is this my low level Asus TUF board or could it be voltages? Mine does that, too (Strix-E). It's faint; only hear it when I have the glass panel off.




www.overclock.net













Raptor Lake 13th Gen DDR5/DDR4 IMC Discussion


I get mad coil whine when running Aida64 memory read and copy benchmarks. Is this my low level Asus TUF board or could it be voltages? Mine does that, too (Strix-E). It's faint; only hear it when I have the glass panel off.




www.overclock.net


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> https://www.overclock.net/attachments/20221102_003413-1-jpg.2580134/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raptor Lake 13th Gen DDR5/DDR4 IMC Discussion
> 
> 
> I get mad coil whine when running Aida64 memory read and copy benchmarks. Is this my low level Asus TUF board or could it be voltages? Mine does that, too (Strix-E). It's faint; only hear it when I have the glass panel off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raptor Lake 13th Gen DDR5/DDR4 IMC Discussion
> 
> 
> I get mad coil whine when running Aida64 memory read and copy benchmarks. Is this my low level Asus TUF board or could it be voltages? Mine does that, too (Strix-E). It's faint; only hear it when I have the glass panel off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Ok. Maybe try 1.425 for the ram maybe it needs a bit more. That’s what I would try next.
Maybe it would be wise to set the cpu voltages and speeds back to auto defaults for speed to Eliminate issues there ? I assume it’s changed by manual core voltage adjustment in your pic.


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Ok. Maybe try 1.425 for the ram maybe it needs a bit more. That’s what I would try next.
> Maybe it would be wise to set the cpu voltages and speeds back to auto defaults for speed to Eliminate issues there ? I assume it’s changed by manual core voltage adjustment in your pic.



I downed CPU speed to 5GHz all core and ring 5GHz. On auto it runs faster than that. It had failed on auto and wondered if I had a bad chip. So I had lowered it all the way to 5GHz and still failed and then tested RAM at Auto and it passed with flying colors 1 hour runs multiple times.

So I have kept it lower just to iron out the RAM issues as 5GHz is a piece of cake for these chips and LLC6 SP prediction says like 1.056 volts.

So for the 1.425 volt, should I change memory controller to 1.425 and VDD and VDDQ or just memory controller?

And is the system agent voltage on auto good or should it be adjusted??


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> I downed CPU speed to 5GHz all core and ring 5GHz. On auto it runs faster than that. It had failed on auto and wondered if I had a bad chip. So I had lowered it all the way to 5GHz and still failed and then tested RAM at Auto and it passed with flying colors 1 hour runs multiple times.
> 
> So I have kept it lower just to iron out the RAM issues as 5GHz is a piece of cake for these chips and LLC6 SP prediction says like 1.056 volts.
> 
> So for the 1.425 volt, should I change memory controller to 1.425 and VDD and VDDQ or just memory controller?
> 
> And is the system agent voltage on auto good or should it be adjusted??


Ok.
Do not up the memory controller voltage. 1.4 on auto is max that’s recommended I believe.

just change dram vddq and dram vdd.
See what happens then you can try system agent. One thing at a time ha


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Ok.
> Do not up the memory controller voltage. 1.4 on auto is max that’s recommended I believe.
> 
> just change dram vddq and dram vdd.
> See what happens then you can try system agent. One thing at a time ha



So try 1.425 on VDDQ and VDD first.

For system agent voltage (VCSSA). should I go up or down and what is the max. Cause I have heard sometimes too high a system agent VCSSA voltage can cause stability issues as ironic as it sounds per BuldZoid on an Apex Z690.

And if this does not work,

is this kit a good kit and is it M or A die?









G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6400 PC5-51200 CL32 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS - - Micro Center


Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is the latest G.SKILL flagship memory kits designed for ultra-high extreme performance on next-gen DDR5 platforms.




www.microcenter.com





And is M die actually better than A die for 6400MHz or slower??

Perhaps my board just does not like the new A die??


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> So try 1.425 on VDDQ and VDD first.
> 
> For system agent voltage (VCSSA). should I go up or down and what is the max. Cause I have heard sometimes too high a system agent VCSSA voltage can cause stability issues as ironic as it sounds per BuldZoid on an Apex Z690.


Well it’s possible with system agent. I do see lots of people posting with low SA. Try one or the other. You can try 1.1-1.15 SA first up to you. But only one thing at a time. Ha.


----------



## Carillo

Wolverine2349 said:


> So try 1.425 on VDDQ and VDD first.
> 
> For system agent voltage (VCSSA). should I go up or down and what is the max. Cause I have heard sometimes too high a system agent VCSSA voltage can cause stability issues as ironic as it sounds per BuldZoid on an Apex Z690.
> 
> And if this does not work,
> 
> is this kit a good kit and is it M or A die?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-6400 PC5-51200 CL32 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS - - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is the latest G.SKILL flagship memory kits designed for ultra-high extreme performance on next-gen DDR5 platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And is M die actually better than A die for 6400MHz or slower??
> 
> Perhaps my board just does not like the new A die??


i would not say better , but bioses are much more mature with m-die , so it’s easier to get it going. A-die is brand new , so I think we have to be a little patient. A friend of mine asked me today helping him picking parts for a build, with no or little knowledge with mem OC, I told him to stay the f*** away from ddr5. If not , I have to do 3 month phone support 😂


----------



## Wolverine2349

Carillo said:


> i would not say better , but bioses are much more mature with m-die , so it’s easier to get it going. A-die is brand new , so I think we have to be a little patient. A friend of mine asked me today helping him picking parts for a build, with no or little knowledge with mem OC, I told him to stay the f*** away from ddr5. If not , I have to do 3 month phone support 😂



Is DDR5 in general now just problematic and often weird with stability issues??


----------



## z390e

Its not nearly as mature as DDR4 therefore the knowledge isnt as mature.

It will take a bit for the information to be out there and correct and not still in discussion.


----------



## Carillo

Wolverine2349 said:


> Is DDR5 in general now just problematic and often weird with stability issues??


it just takes a lot more time and patience to get stable than DDR4. When it’s stable it’s stable. Here is 100 of pages with good information an OC results from people here. Grab a coffee and start scrolling. Impatience and laziness is not a good combo with ddr5 IMO.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Carillo said:


> it just takes a lot more time and patience to get stable than DDR4. When it’s stable it’s stable. Here is 100 of pages with good information an OC results from people here. Grab a coffee and start scrolling. Impatience and laziness is not a good combo with ddr5 IMO.



I had purchased 7200 kit under assumption that XMP was sweet spot and should be good to go with 13th gen IMC and it was going much above that sometimes was hit or miss. Someone on reddit Intel stated any A die XMP should be fine as long as it is on motherboard vendor list and run it at XMP should be stable and no issues.


----------



## z390e

XMP should always work for any motherboard on the RAM QVL, imo


----------



## Carillo

z390e said:


> XMP should always work for any motherboard on the RAM QVL, imo


Yes , but you know that’s rarely the reality. That’s the same case with ddr4.MB vendors use the frasing “UP to” for a reason. Like 4800 B.die on z390 Apex , not stable with my 9900k or 9900KS. I needed a 8086K for that even if it’s in the qvl. The difference between IMC quality is always different, with 12th and 13th gen the differences ia bigger then ever. There are more people reporting stability issues with 7200 kits then success.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Yes , but you know that’s rarely the reality. That’s the same case with ddr4.MB vendors use the frasing “UP to” for a reason. Like 4800 B.die on z390 Apex , not stable with my 9900k or 9900KS. I needed a 8086K for that even if it’s in the qvl. The difference between IMC quality is always different, with 12th and 13th gen the differences ia bigger then ever. There are more people reporting stability issues with 7200 kits then success.


theres also a topic ppl been avoiding.

13th gen imc quality vs mobo tuning for a chipset


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> I had purchased 7200 kit under assumption that XMP was sweet spot and should be good to go with 13th gen IMC and it was going much above that sometimes was hit or miss. Someone on reddit Intel stated any A die XMP should be fine as long as it is on motherboard vendor list and run it at XMP should be stable and no issues.


Did it fail right away again?


----------



## Wolverine2349

tubs2x4 said:


> Did it fail right away again?



Tried 1.425 and failed 18 minutes in OCCT with a freeze. So random as sometimes it is right away sometimes takes 40 minutes. And strange thing is it passed MemTest with no issues at all a few days agio and it made me think RAM was good except no it was not.


----------



## J_Lab4645

Carillo said:


> Really looking forward to some alone time with her 😅
> View attachment 2580204





Carillo said:


> Really looking forward to some alone time with her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Z690 Apex vs Z790 Apex......*


----------



## tubs2x4

Wolverine2349 said:


> Tried 1.425 and failed 18 minutes in OCCT with a freeze. So random as sometimes it is right away sometimes takes 40 minutes. And strange thing is it passed MemTest with no issues at all a few days agio and it made me think RAM was good except no it was not.


Ok. You try 1.3v system agent?


----------



## Codiee1337

Wolverine2349 said:


> Tried 1.425 and failed 18 minutes in OCCT with a freeze. So random as sometimes it is right away sometimes takes 40 minutes. And strange thing is it passed MemTest with no issues at all a few days agio and it made me think RAM was good except no it was not.


Are you using CPU Contact Frame?


----------



## Wolverine2349

Codiee1337 said:


> Are you using CPU Contact Frame?



Yes I am. I had wondered if maybe it was the problem so I switched back to ILM and same issue. SO now went back to contact frame as it does lower temps a little and no bending.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Now to update after trying the G.Skill Trident 6400, same exact problems.

I just wonder if the board the ROG Strix Z790-F has a bad memory topology or layout or something???

I am going to return the board and RAM and keep the good 7200 since that is most likely not the problem afterall.


----------



## Codiee1337

Wolverine2349 said:


> Yes I am. I had wondered if maybe it was the problem so I switched back to ILM and same issue. SO now went back to contact frame as oty does lower temps a little and no bending.


Dude I have the same ****ing issue I started troubleshooting 2 days ago, I can get the system up and running, no bsod, nothing. But when I try to run MemTest86 or TM5 or Aida64 Stability Test (Not the benchmark!) I always got an error. And we aren’t even talking about high frequencies, only 6000MHz, with xmp on kingston fury beast 2x32gb on an Asus Z690 Maximus Hero with 13700k. As I wrote it not only gives me error in Windows, it gives me error in MemTest86…
Tried everything, increasing this voltage, that voltage and more on, (MC, VDD, VDDQ, SA(which also increases the IMC voltage on the Hero, idk about Strix) and nothing. Thats when I noticed, If i put the ram stick voltages up high, I get the errors faster, so I ****ing took out the Contact frame, and now I’m testing, MemTest86 has been runing for almost 30 mins with no error yet. But we’ll see in an hour or so when I get to run Aida64 Stability test for at least 30 mins..
Edit: I also tried another kit, same issue..


----------



## Wolverine2349

Codiee1337 said:


> Dude I have the same ****ing issue I started troubleshooting 2 days ago, I can get the system up and running, no bsod, nothing. But when I try to run MemTest86 or TM5 or Aida64 Stability Test (Not the benchmark!) I always got an error. And we aren’t even talking about high frequencies, only 6000MHz, with xmp on kingston fury beast 2x32gb on an Asus Z690 Maximus Hero with 13700k. As I wrote it not only gives me error in Windows, it gives me error in MemTest86…
> Tried everything, increasing this voltage, that voltage and more on, (MC, VDD, VDDQ, SA(which also increases the IMC voltage on the Hero, idk about Strix) and nothing. Thats when I noticed, If i put the ram stick voltages up high, I get the errors faster, so I ****ing took out the Contact frame, and now I’m testing, MemTest86 has been runing for almost 30 mins with no error yet. But we’ll see in an hour or so when I get to run Aida64 Stability test for at least 30 mins..



I had ran MemTest first thing this past weekend and no errors after 1 pass and assumed memory was fine.

Then I started to focus on CPU overclock and sometimes it would pass OCCT and sometimes not and I always assumed it was my CPU overclock unstable. Then set all to auto and sometimes still got errors. So wondered if I had a bad CPU or auto was pushing it too hard or something even though temps within spec.

Then I thought hmm maybe XMP RAM overclock and low and behold that is what it was. Though can pass MemTest or at least it was able to once.


----------



## Wolverine2349

What Z790 board or even Z690 board is best for working out of the box reliably with 7200 G.Skill RAM and/or DDR5 RAM XMP or manual overclocks in general??

Is the ROG Maximus Hero boards supposed to have better memory overclocking and training than ROG Strix.

Are the ROG Strix boards have memory topology no better than the Prime and Tuf, they just have more features and a better VRM??

Or is running 7200 DDR5 on any board pretty much the same unless it is an Asus Apex or MSI Unify X.


----------



## Gadfly

no


Wolverine2349 said:


> What Z790 board or even Z690 board is best for working out of the box reliably with 7200 G.Skill RAM and/or DDR5 RAM XMP or manual overclocks in general??
> 
> Is the ROG Maximus Hero boards supposed to have better memory overclocking and training than ROG Strix.
> 
> Are the ROG Strix boards have memory topology no better than the Prime and Tuf, they just have more features and a better VRM??
> 
> Or is running 7200 DDR5 on any board pretty much the same unless it is an Asus Apex or MSI Unify X.


EVGA Z690 or Z790 Dark Kingpin

12900ks and Z690 DKP, I have no issues running M-Die at 7200C32 1T 1.55v VDD, or A-Die 7800C32 2T at 1.545v VDD, without a whole lot of fuss, just have to tune some voltages. 7600C34 1T takes a little bit more work; I have not got that stable yet. 8000C36 2T was also pretty easy. My sticks won’t run 8000C34 2T under 1.6v.

These are a-die green sticks with a fan blowing on them.


----------



## Codiee1337

And with stock ILM with my CPU OC it ****ing ran.... I don't understand man....


----------



## z390e

Wolverine2349 said:


> What Z790 board or even Z690 board is best for working out of the box reliably with 7200 G.Skill RAM and/or DDR5 RAM XMP or manual overclocks in general??


IDK about the Gskill 7200's but I have the Teamgroup 7200's working on my z690 Dark, took a bit of tweaking but nothing insane.

also newegg has z790 apex available for pre-order, available 11/30









ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700 (Intel12th&13th Gen) ATX Gaming Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 24+0 Power Stages, DDR5, 5x M.2, 2xPCIe 5.0 M.2, PCIe 5.0 Hyper M.2 Card Bundled) - Newegg.com


Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700 (Intel12th&13th Gen) ATX Gaming Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 24+0 Power Stages, DDR5, 5x M.2, 2xPCIe 5.0 M.2, PCIe 5.0 Hyper M.2 Card Bundled) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## z390e

Codiee1337 said:


> View attachment 2580391
> 
> And with stock ILM with my CPU OC it ****ing ran.... I don't understand man....


Your ram temps look high _to me, _are you getting errors only when temps are high?


----------



## Gadfly

Codiee1337 said:


> View attachment 2580391
> 
> And with stock ILM with my CPU OC it ****ing ran.... I don't understand man....


If you have a contact frame the torque really matters; most of the time when you get memory instability with a contact frame you need to slightly increase the torque on the screws, or they are not torqued evenly.

Even very small changes make a big difference.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Gadfly said:


> If you have a contact frame the torque really matters; most of the time when you get memory instability with a contact frame you need to slightly increase the torque on the screws, or they are not torqued evenly.
> 
> Even very small changes make a big difference.



Is it ok to tighten them a lot until it is very hard to turn. And would it just cause XMP stability issues, or also running it at SPD default at 4800MHz stability issues??


----------



## Codiee1337

z390e said:


> Your ram temps look high _to me, _are you getting errors only when temps are high?


This perticular 2 stick of ram can run at 6400 CL36 in another motherboard (Z690 Tomahawk) easily at 65 °C.
I found a ****ing small screwdriver, and tried to be as good computer science engineer as I am, and it finally ****ing works........... I have done it like 4 times on 2 other motherboards (the contact frame screwing in) and worked with no other effort, this CPU gave me 9 hours of anxiety as I thought that I ****ed its IMC over  But it seems to work now. No errors yet. Will try 6400 CL36 later.


----------



## Codiee1337

Wolverine2349 said:


> Is it ok to tighten them a lo until it is very hard to turn. And would it just cause XMP stability issues, or also running it at SPD default at 4800MHz stability issues??


From my server maintenance experience, yes, it can cause stock settings stability issues. Go back to stock Intel ILM, give it another chance, if it runs on stock, then try XMP, if it runs on XMP, its contact frame issue. I spent my last 9-11 hours to troubleshoot this...


----------



## Codiee1337

Wolverine2349 said:


> Is it ok to tighten them a lo until it is very hard to turn. And would it just cause XMP stability issues, or also running it at SPD default at 4800MHz stability issues??


Also what cooler do you have?


----------



## z390e

awesome great to hear you got it working @Codiee1337


----------



## Codiee1337

z390e said:


> awesome great to hear you got it working @Codiee1337


Does somebody know the limit of the Kingston Fury Beast 6000MHz sticks?  (I have been using it at 6400MHz CL36 in the Tomahawk) I want to see the limits, also what is the daily safe voltage of the IMC in the raptors? Do we have enough data on this? Or just the usual stay below 1.4V and you are "maybe fine"?


----------



## Gadfly

Wolverine2349 said:


> Is it ok to tighten them a lot until it is very hard to turn. And would it just cause XMP stability issues, or also running it at SPD default at 4800MHz stability issues??


no. If you go too tight it won’t even boot


----------



## Wolverine2349

Codiee1337 said:


> From my server maintenance experience, yes, it can cause stock settings stability issues. Go back to stock Intel ILM, give it another chance, if it runs on stock, then try XMP, if it runs on XMP, its contact frame issue. I spent my last 9-11 hours to troubleshoot this...




I had wondered that and tried going back to ILM and same issue/ Works fine at stock SPD settings which really is not stock as who buys XMP RAM to run at SPD stock lol.

It even boots fine on XMP and gets into Windows fine. Its just not totally stable as OCCT Variable large data set test BSOD or freezes sometimes.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Codiee1337 said:


> Also what cooler do you have?



Noctua NH-D15S


----------



## Codiee1337

Wolverine2349 said:


> I had wondered that and tried going back to ILM and same issue/ Works fine at stock SPD settings which really is not stock as who buys XMP RAM to run at SPD stock lol.
> 
> It even boots fine on XMP and gets into Windows fine. Its just not totally stable as OCCT Variable large data set test BSOD or freezes sometimes.


Definitely CPU pressure issue in the socket. What cooler do you have?
I noticed the pressure issue from this: When I increased the RAM Voltage (not imc, not SA voltage) that it doesn't change anything, same error, or even more.. So I thought, if its not connecting well enough to the pins, the data may get corrupted inbetween the RAM and the CPU LGA. And because I haven't touched the traces of the motherboard, and didn't see any broken/bent pins in the ram slots that they are in, its most likely a contact issue in the CPU socket..


----------



## Codiee1337

Codiee1337 said:


> Definitely CPU pressure issue in the socket. What cooler do you have?





Wolverine2349 said:


> Noctua NH-D15S


Is the Noctua bracket correctly set up? (I know the Noctua screw has a spring on it, so you can't overtighten it), but maybe try to screw back the cooler itself a little bit?


----------



## Codiee1337

Oh btw, on the meantime, 1 cylce of [email protected] run down with the contact frame, yay!


----------



## Codiee1337

Finally................ I can't believe my eyes.
I'll leave it for a 9 cycle run so that its more verified that its stable. But it seems that its ****ING WOOORKIIIIING!


----------



## z390e

63.8c is pretty hot good to see they didnt error


----------



## Codiee1337

z390e said:


> 63.8c is pretty hot good to see they didnt error











Its not in a case, probably the heat doesn’t go away, the fan that is on top of the RAM is too close probably. Also that doesn’t help that the AIO blows hot air onto the test bench setup.


----------



## Raphie

Turn what you can twist with 2 fingers till modest resistance, then max (depending on how strong your fingers are) 90degr anger more, that’s it, not tighter.


----------



## Raphie

D15 with bracket here 29c idle 62c karhu sustained load after 1h


----------



## robalm

Im new to ddr5.
Samsung 6000 cl40 1.35v.
I now run 6200 cl 36 1.35v so that nice.
But the only way to get it stable (got 1 error after 100% htc memtest) was to rise the mc voltage from 1.2v to 1.26v. Now i pass 400%.
Can't find mutch info about that voltage.
Im not sure it that is to mutch?


----------



## Luke77

i m on new too and i have the same question as you on my 6400 gskill but can t go upon 6400 at any point....i can only move sometiming and no more with crazy tension to pass memtest ...i gave up all right now


----------



## Wolverine2349

Anyone know if Z790 is better at DDR5 stability in general over Z690??

And if I decide to just keep 2 X 16GB sticks of 6400MHz DDR5 G.Skill Trident and not go to 7200, which motherboard would be best for its XMP set and forget stability without having to go with the eVGA Kingpin or Dark or Apex or another 2 DIMM board

Looking for Asus or MSI board.


----------



## nerfon

corsair website got on stock the new CMK32GX5M2X7000C34 hynix a-die , confirmed from z790 validated rams list on asus , gigabyte etc... mine shipped in less than 24h


----------



## energie80

nerfon said:


> corsair website got on stock the new CMK32GX5M2X7000C34 hynix a-die , confirmed from z790 validated rams on asus , gigabyte etc... mine shipped in less than 24h


nice price


----------



## don1376

Wolverine2349 said:


> Anyone know if Z790 is better at DDR5 stability in general over Z690??
> 
> And if I decide to just keep 2 X 16GB sticks of 6400MHz DDR5 G.Skill Trident and not go to 7200, which motherboard would be best for its XMP set and forget stability without having to go with the eVGA Kingpin or Dark or Apex or another 2 DIMM board
> 
> Looking for Asus or MSI board.


I had the gskill trident z5 and I could do on unify x was 6800 but couldn't really tighten the secondary timings at all. Sold them and went to hynix mdie.


----------



## energie80

don1376 said:


> I had the gskill trident z5 and I could do on unify x was 6800 but couldn't really tighten the secondary timings at all. Sold them and went to hynix mdie.


arent gskill mdie?


----------



## don1376

energie80 said:


> arent gskill mdie?


Mine were samsung. Not sure what die but they sucked at ocing


----------



## energie80

don1376 said:


> Mine were samsung. Not sure what die but they sucked at ocing


how did you check?


----------



## Wolverine2349

don1376 said:


> I had the gskill trident z5 and I could do on unify x was 6800 but couldn't really tighten the secondary timings at all. Sold them and went to hynix mdie.



What was the kit?? Could you run XMP??

I am thinking of just keeping thr 6400 which I believe is MDie and just finding a much better board so I can run perfectly stable XMP defaults. 7200 XMP will be harder all else being equal on same board anyways. But do not want to go below 6400.


----------



## Wolverine2349

According to Asus Website QVL lists. the G.Skill Trident Z5 are all Hynix SK based


----------



## nerfon

they can be m or a die latest made but only way is see serial number if end m20 or a20


----------



## don1376

With cpuz they were definitely samsung.


----------



## anjunawave

Hey all, im facing really a lot of problems with my mobo, i did the bios update and now im no more stable with my 4 ddr5 ram... i wanna use also on 4800 MHz but seems impossible now, any suggest? this is my set-up

*OS :: Windows 11 Pro 22H2 | CPU :: Intel i9-12900K | MB :: Asus TUF Z690-PLUS | GPU :: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 | RAM :: Kingston DDR5 32GB DDR5-4800 CL38 | M2 :: WD_BLACK SN850 1TB NVMe | POWER :: HX1000W Corsair | Cooling :: Kraken X63 280mm RGB*


----------



## don1376

These were 6400c34. Got them back when ddr5 was just coming out. They'd run XMP but not much more.


----------



## cstkl1

initial test 1.45


----------



## energie80

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2580489
> 
> 
> initial test 1.45


What kind of ddr5?


----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> What kind of ddr5?


Picture says g.kill 7600...


----------



## owikh84

Mixed locked (MPS PMIC) and unlocked (Renesas) A dies 

13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.91
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Renesas) + HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (MPS)
1x Noctua A12x25 + Bitspower heatsink
Ambient: 29C

*2x16GB DDR5-7800 36-46-46-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.35v | SA 1.175v | MC 1.40v*


----------



## cstkl1

1.55


----------



## cstkl1

all auto just setting main timing


----------



## rulik006

Laughable like people chasing for G.skill 7600


----------



## cstkl1

rulik006 said:


> Laughable like people chasing for G.skill 7600


laughable when ppl dont realize
he never mention how many stick he buy bin.

dats da laughable part when ppl post green stick like u just walk to the shop took two. presto 8600.


----------



## bscool




----------



## rulik006

cstkl1 said:


> he never mention how many stick he buy bin.


Because he didn't bin them
CENS has provided


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> laughable when ignorant ppl dont realize
> he never mention how many stick he buy bin.
> 
> dats da laughable part when ppl post green stick like u just walk to the shop took two. presto 8600.


In the video he says air cooling. If you look at one of the shots , SPD temp is showing 11C. Now that’s some impressive cold AIR 🤣🤣

Edit: But anyway, impressive result. He has also binned the motherboard, cpu and ram. Nothing random about this setup


----------



## owikh84

Actually 7800 36-45-45-30-2T is also possible with the same voltages but performance almost no difference vs 36-46-46-30-2T.

13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - Stock
MSI Z690I Unify | BIOS 1.91
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Renesas) + HMCG78AGBUA084N BA (MPS)
1x Noctua A12x25 + Bitspower heatsink
Ambient: 29C

*2x16GB DDR5-7800 36-45-45-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.435v | TX VDDQ 1.35v | SA 1.175v | MC 1.40v*


----------



## rulik006

bscool said:


> Spoiler: DDR5 RAM PCB Green SK Hynix God code A-DIE 224A OC 8800+ is it true?


impossible, he bought 1000 sticks and took the best one 🤡


----------



## SoldierRBT

RPL is fast


----------



## cstkl1

rulik006 said:


> impossible, he bought 1000 sticks and took the best one 🤡


well i know ppl are binning couple hundred. 

u can go try. hynix adie green pcb /klevv are not cheap.


----------



## Carillo

rulik006 said:


> impossible, he bought 1000 sticks and took the best one 🤡


He actually borrowed this kit from his friend


----------



## cstkl1

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt2lwXi




https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms4YZi4



cheapest atm


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMZD0sk


----------



## z390e

rulik006 said:


> Because he didn't bin them
> CENS has provided


ofc Overclock.net hwbot team members have the best stuff

its science


----------



## Gadfly

Codiee1337 said:


> View attachment 2580411
> 
> 
> Finally................ I can't believe my eyes.
> I'll leave it for a 9 cycle run so that its more verified that its stable. But it seems that its ****ING WOOORKIIIIING!


Good deal, did you reinstall with higher torque on the screws?


----------



## IronAge

bscool said:


>


Just been about to buy some of those @ hwbot marketplace, exact same batch, then they been sold in the meantime.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> laughable when ppl dont realize
> he never mention how many stick he buy bin.
> 
> dats da laughable part when ppl post green stick like u just walk to the shop took two. presto 8600.


He only bought 300 pcs


----------



## z390e

Nizzen said:


> He only bought 300 pcs


rookie numbers this thread active today on hwbot he binned 338






[FS-US] Binned DDR3 PSC and MFR


[READ: All items are located in the US. All prices include domestic US shipping; international shipping requires a quote, usually add 26 USD to the list price. Bundle deals can be made for the purchase of multiple items. All items have been tested on a Z97 OC Formula test platform, with SET volta...



community.hwbot.org


----------



## Wolverine2349

How are Asus Z690 and Z790 ROG Maximus Hero boards at memory XMP profile stability compared to the ROG Strix E and F and Tuf and Prime.

Are the ROG Maximus Hero much better as they are flagship boards??

I know Extreme is not as good but I heard Hero for Z690 were better than Extreme and of course the Prime and Tuf series.

How does the Hero compare to Strix series in general??

And how are the Asus ROG Maximus Hero boards compared to MSI Carbon WiFi in the Z690 and Z790 series for DDR5 XMP stability??


----------



## Carillo

O


Nizzen said:


> He only bought 300 pcs


He almost have as many ddr5 kits as you then ?


----------



## Luke77

nerfon said:


> corsair website got on stock the new CMK32GX5M2X7000C34 hynix a-die , confirmed from z790 validated rams list on asus , gigabyte etc... mine shipped in less than 24h


Compatible with i7 12700 k on z690 formula ?


----------



## anjunawave

anjunawave said:


> Hey all, im facing really a lot of problems with my mobo, i did the bios update and now im no more stable with my 4 ddr5 ram... i wanna use also on 4800 MHz but seems impossible now, any suggest? this is my set-up
> 
> *OS :: Windows 11 Pro 22H2 | CPU :: Intel i9-12900K | MB :: Asus TUF Z690-PLUS | GPU :: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 | RAM :: Kingston DDR5 32GB DDR5-4800 CL38 | M2 :: WD_BLACK SN850 1TB NVMe | POWER :: HX1000W Corsair | Cooling :: Kraken X63 280mm RGB*


please guys, any suggest? ty much


----------



## tps3443

newls1 said:


> can you get to 7600with same settings?


Don’t know if I answered this or not. But the answer is yes! I have 7600Mhz 100% HCI MEMTEST stable. The Team Group 7200 sticks are really excellent. I feel like I am limited with my motherboard at this point.

I managed to get 7800 to post last night, still working at it though.


----------



## cstkl1

tps3443 said:


> Don’t know if I answered this or not. But the answer is yes! I have 7600Mhz 100% HCI MEMTEST stable. The Team Group 7200 sticks are really excellent. I feel like I am limited with my motherboard at this point.
> 
> I managed to get 7800 to post last night, still working at it though.


the white/silver/grey one is callin ya. 🤣


----------



## rulik006

cstkl1 said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt2lwXi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms4YZi4
> 
> 
> 
> cheapest atm
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMZD0sk


A-die MPS pmic already in my basket, just waiting till they drop from 720(99$) to 600(82$)


----------



## asdkj1740

rulik006 said:


> A-die MPS pmic already in my basket, just waiting till they drop from 720(99$) to 600(82$)
> View attachment 2580592


why mps?
which mobo can unlock mps pmic?


----------



## rulik006

asdkj1740 said:


> why mps?
> which mobo can unlock mps pmic?


none, they are cheaper than 81N and A-die don't need high voltage like M-die anyway


----------



## Ketku-

So guys, tested yet Z690 Apex + 13900K vs Z790 Apex + 13900K differents oc cpu/memory?


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> How are Asus Z690 and Z790 ROG Maximus Hero boards at memory XMP profile stability compared to the ROG Strix E and F and Tuf and Prime.
> 
> Are the ROG Maximus Hero much better as they are flagship boards??
> 
> I know Extreme is not as good but I heard Hero for Z690 were better than Extreme and of course the Prime and Tuf series.
> 
> How does the Hero compare to Strix series in general??
> 
> And how are the Asus ROG Maximus Hero boards compared to MSI Carbon WiFi in the Z690 and Z790 series for DDR5 XMP stability??


Not long ago I might have thought so, but now that I have a Z690 Extreme that works as expected, I doubt the Hero is better  



anjunawave said:


> please guys, any suggest? ty much


Asus motherboards having memory problems automatically makes me suspect the Dimm slots aren't functioning properly. If you haven't already, test each slot, 1 at a time, with a good stick of ram. Basically, you need to see how fast each slot can go without issue and if they don't go as high as advertised, start an RMA. It's happened to a lot of people, including me


----------



## Wolverine2349

> Not long ago I might have thought so, but now that I have a Z690 Extreme that works as expected, I doubt the Hero is better


But would the Hero definitely be better than the Strix series and Tuf and Prime??


----------



## z390e

not sure but I think this is still the heirarchy for boards


----------



## LazyGamer

z390e said:


> not sure but I think this is still the heirarchy for boards


Seems that way watching their product lineup, and I do find it amusing how they classify gamers. Also a bit insulting that they'd not put troubleshooting features in with their first-time builders category. Have a TUF on the bench and definitely miss things like power/reset on board and a post-code reader.

Looks like they need to put their 'Maximus / Crossfire' designations up at the top for Intel / AMD.


----------



## tps3443

cstkl1 said:


> the white/silver/grey one is callin ya. 🤣


Are you referring to the Apex Z790? Because yeah it definitely is.

Great looking board.


----------



## acoustic

@Carillo 

Where's the Z790 results!!


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> @Carillo
> 
> Where's the Z790 results!!


Have you ever seen anyone overclock a brand new MB with DDR5 in just one hour?


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Have you ever seen anyone overclock a brand new MB with DDR5 in just one hour?


Yes. You!


----------



## tps3443

Someone send me a Z790 Apex to test.


----------



## Carillo

I takes time, but I can tell you it boots 8800mhz with both sticks 🤣


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> But would the Hero definitely be better than the Strix series and Tuf and Prime??





z390e said:


> not sure but I think this is still the heirarchy for boards


I believe so yes, at least according to this hierarchy image, because the full name is ROG Maximus Z690 Hero, not ROG Strix Z690 Hero


----------



## acoustic

@Carillo

Do you still have your M-Die kit? Kinda curious if the Z790 APEX offers any changes for you, once you get a chance.


----------



## jtclfo

Straight from Taoyuan. Curious to see how this will perform. Still waiting on some things before I can finish the build.


----------



## WebsterRKL

jtclfo said:


> Straight from Taoyuan. Curious to see how this will perform. Still waiting on some things before I can finish the build.
> View attachment 2580651


These are slightly better. 

$409 from Newegg October 20th - 1st batch.


----------



## jtclfo

WebsterRKL said:


> These are slightly better.



Lol yeah I believe it. Corsair is my sponsor not G.Skill so I was just taking what was given


----------



## tps3443

WebsterRKL said:


> These are better.
> 
> View attachment 2580662
> 
> View attachment 2580663


Honestly, I think they are the same thing. Newegg is just profiting like $20 or $30 extra dollars off those 7600 vs 7200’s for a slightly faster XMP profile. I’ve got my Team Group 7200’s at 7600C34 100% stable.


----------



## Wolverine2349

LilOliVert said:


> I believe so yes, at least according to this hierarchy image, because the full name is ROG Maximus Z690 Hero, not ROG Strix Z690 Hero



Just found a Z790 Hero on ebay and having it shipped to me after I returned the Strix Z790-F to my local Micro Center. They selection of DDR5 boards is limited for Z790 and like nothing in stock.

Is it a good idea to use the Thermalright Contact Frame with a Noctua NH-D15S?? I had tried that with the Strix Z790-F. Is it possible it permanently created problems that caused slight pressure changes even when I put stock ILM back on which may have caused memory stability issues, so is it best to just stick to stock ILM with a Noctua NH-D15S since it is Convex and IHS on Intel CPUs are Concave anyways??

And with the LGA 1700 BCF from Thermalright there is no instructions on jhow tight to do the screws so its like who knows except do not make them too tight or allow them to be too loose??


----------



## WebsterRKL

jtclfo said:


> Lol yeah I believe it. Corsair is my sponsor not G.Skill so I was just taking what was given


Independent writer - I have to sponsor myself.


----------



## Carillo

The new z790 Apex is definitely stronger than z690. I did not get too much time today, but i did almost pass 8400 c34 HCI! Need to work more on this profile tomorrow . I also added some 8600 c38 testing  It’s pretty impressing how strong the Hynix green sticks are  Anyway , so far I’m very impressed by this board!


----------



## tps3443

I shouldn’t have doubted the MSI Unify-X. Sorry MSI! This was just user error that limited me to 7600 lol.

DDR5 8000 boys!!
[email protected]
[email protected]
1.500 VDDQ
1.500 VDD


----------



## morph.

Carillo said:


> The new z790 Apex is definitely stronger than z690. I did not get too much time today, but i did almost pass 8400 c34 HCI! Need to work more on this profile tomorrow . I also added some 8600 c38 testing  It’s pretty impressing how strong the Hynix green sticks are  Anyway , so far I’m very impressed by this board!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2580675
> View attachment 2580676


Neat and jelly I can't seem to acquire one locally here yet. What sorta voltages and cooling are you running for this?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Carillo said:


> The new z790 Apex is definitely stronger than z690. I did not get too much time today, but i did almost pass 8400 c34 HCI! Need to work more on this profile tomorrow . I also added some 8600 c38 testing  It’s pretty impressing how strong the Hynix green sticks are  Anyway , so far I’m very impressed by this board!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2580675
> View attachment 2580676


Wait one minute. Did you receive a pre-tested board directly from ASUS?


----------



## affxct

7000 34-42-42-28-2T (Secondaries and Tertiaries)
VCCSA: 1.0V
TX VDDQ: 1.25V
VDD2: 1.45V
DRAM VDD: 1.455V
DRAM VDDQ: 1.35V

I’ve seen a few similar low voltage configs from Alder Lake, so I’m sure this is not that impressive, but I thought it was a really nice result for M-die. 7200C32 requires 150mV more VDD/VDDQ and TX at 1.4, so the scaling is kinda horrible compared to A-die above 7000. I can’t seem to figure 1T out though because I’m not a real OCer.


----------



## z390e

7600 t-force back order until 11/11









Team Group Delta RGB DDR5 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 (PC5 60800) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7600HC36DDC01 - Newegg.com


Buy Team Group Delta RGB DDR5 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7600 (PC5 60800) Desktop Memory Model FF3D532G7600HC36DDC01 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## z390e

WebsterRKL said:


> Wait one minute. Did you receive a pre-tested board directly from ASUS?



I don't know about him, but if any vendors out there want to sponsor me, and send me any new stuff, I'm available. Someone has to rep the Case + AIO army members I mean c'mon.


----------



## tps3443

I finally understand all of the memory voltages for DDR5 and Z690/Z790 platform voltages. I got ‘em!! It took me like 10-11 days of messing with it daily. Now I got it. Hooray for me.


----------



## acoustic

tps3443 said:


> I shouldn’t have doubted the MSI Unify-X. Sorry MSI! This was just user error that limited me to 7600 lol.
> 
> DDR5 8000 boys!!
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> 1.500 VDDQ
> 1.500 VDD
> 
> View attachment 2580687
> 
> View attachment 2580688


What stress tests is it stable in? What %?


----------



## tps3443

acoustic said:


> What stress tests is it stable in? What %?


Haven’t tested. I felt accomplished posting 8000 alone lol. 7600 is truly stable though. I’ll chime back in and let you know. I just had my CPU IMC VDD2 voltage too low before is all. Out of curiosity whatis the daily max voltage for CPU IMC VDD2


----------



## acoustic

tps3443 said:


> Haven’t tested. I felt accomplished posting 8000 alone lol. 7600 is truly stable though. I’ll chime back in and let you know. I just had my CPU IMC VDD2 voltage too low before is all. Out of curiosity whatis the daily max voltage for CPU IMC VDD2


CPU VDD2 can go as high as required. It's simply a signal voltage for the communication between CPU/Mobo and DRAM.

Just curious what you classify as stable. Karhu 10K and TM5 30cycle? Y-Cruncher 2.5b 10x? Etc.


----------



## z390e

acoustic said:


> Just curious what you classify as stable. Karhu 10K and TM5 30cycle? Y-Cruncher 2.5b 10x? Etc.


for me TM5 absolut or extreme and y-cruncher 2.5b at least 5-10 times, each, and across reboots

I dont use Karhu, but I do think as a community it is time for some standardization


----------



## tps3443

acoustic said:


> CPU VDD2 can go as high as required. It's simply a signal voltage for the communication between CPU/Mobo and DRAM.
> 
> Just curious what you classify as stable. Karhu 10K and TM5 30cycle? Y-Cruncher 2.5b 10x? Etc.


I test my memory like this with HCI Memtest full coverage (16) apps of it running with all ram used for a few hours at least. If it can do 2 hours with no errors, I call it good.

As for My cpu I don’t like to power stress my processors. Absolutely no need. I try to keep temps very cool for longevity and avoid degradation. So I typically use just R23 30 minute a few times, and IBT full ram usage. If my ram is stable, and my cpu through those. This system will never fail me in anything I use.

I have the cooling power to brute force a CPU through anything if I want though.


----------



## bigfootnz

tps3443 said:


> I test my memory like this with HCI Memtest full coverage (16) apps of it running with all ram used for a few hours at least. If it can do 2 hours with no errors, I call it good.
> 
> As for My cpu I don’t like to power stress my processors. Absolutely no need. I try to keep temps very cool for longevity and avoid degradation. So I typically use just R23 30 minute a few times, and IBT full ram usage. If my ram is stable, and my cpu through those. This system will never fail me in anything I use.
> 
> I have the cooling power to brute force a CPU through anything if I want though.
> 
> View attachment 2580755


Shouldn’t you have 32 instances and not only 16, as 13900k has 32 logical cores?


----------



## acoustic

How much coverage does 2hrs get you? Also curious why you're using 16threads on a 24c/32thr chip.

I'd try to mix in some TM5 1usmus 30cycle, or TM5 ABSOLUT.. maybe Karhu too.

I agree with @z390e ; especially when you're really pushing the limits. Claiming things as stable with minimal stability testing really throws people's perceptions out of whack. Even worse, with RAM OC, is the hidden corruption that's possible. One day it's fine because it ran an hour of HCI Memtest and hasn't crashed in games, and the next you're getting a unrecoverable error booting into Windows and there's system32 files corrupted. Max tREFI requires very low temps on the DIMMs.. like I wouldn't touch max without liquid on them tbh.

Not aiming this at you or anything, just something I've noticed.

My personal favorite thus far..

20000% Karhu
TM5 ABSOLUT 3cyc
TM5 1usmus 30cyc
Y-Cruncher 2.5b 10x


----------



## Dodgexander

I've been battling trying to get my Team 5200 kit (Micron) to a baseline 5600 and I finally seem to have had some luck, but I've had to raise the voltage so high it's giving me high temps:









I've read such conflicting things about DDR5 safe temperatures. Micron say their DIMMS are good for up to 100°c, yet I've heard people say you should use active cooling if they go over 40°c.
It seems like at least right now the high temp is not affecting my stability, in fact this is the first time I see some stability at this frequency.

Any tips for me? I plan to reduce voltage some and then tweak timings.

It's not so easy for me to copy or understand other people's settings here because I use an Asrock board and most, if not all people seem to use MSI or Asus. The naming of voltages is different in my BIOS and there's no direct control over System Agent voltage, only an offset.

Does anyone know the Asrock equivalent namings?


----------



## Ketku-

Guys! 

When i run sometimes Tm5 Extreme / Absolut config, first cycle is end and then its only stay and timer goes forward but nothing happen?
Karhu is my mind better, but only thinking what is wrong Tm5..


----------



## jeiselramos

z390e said:


> for me TM5 absolut or extreme and y-cruncher 2.5b at least 5-10 times, each, and across reboots
> 
> I dont use Karhu, but I do think as a community it is time for some standardization


I approve, great idea

Even for oc CPU would be great


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> I approve, great idea
> 
> Even for oc CPU would be great


each is a tool best test certain things
the aim is to pass all of them consistently on multiple reboots

this ends up as system stability . not just ram


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> each is a tool best test certain things
> the aim is to pass all of them consistently on multiple reboots
> 
> this ends up as system stability . not just ram


too mean too rude. 
dram vendors like to show 100% hci passed only, and blame every problem to users and cpu vendors and mobo vendors.


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> each is a tool best test certain things
> the aim is to pass all of them consistently on multiple reboots
> 
> this ends up as system stability . not just ram


I mean when people show their stable daily oc would be great if they show tm5 1usmus 20 cycle + Hci 400% + karhu 6400% + ycruncher 2.5b


----------



## newls1

tps3443 said:


> I finally understand all of the memory voltages for DDR5 and Z690/Z790 platform voltages. I got ‘em!! It took me like 10-11 days of messing with it daily. Now I got it. Hooray for me.


Glad you understand all of them, NOW HELP ME!! I cant understand which voltage does what! I "GET" what the vdd one is (voltage for the ram itself) and thats it! everything else i guess at and copy/paste settings from here... Thinking hard about getting the t-force 7200 ram, you recommend it?


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> too mean too rude.
> dram vendors like to show 100% hci passed only, and blame every problem to users and cpu vendors and mobo vendors.


diff.
one is chipset ram stability
second is aib tuning skews/mrc training
then voltage delivery stability mobo side
cpu temps also matter.

so ram manufacturer can only go so far bro
cpu on aib can either tune wide but limit top clock or narrow. then u got the enginerring side. diff product lines apex, extreme right down to prime

not easy.

13900k looks like has many variables more than 12900k since now we havd adie which can clock high with low vdd

so its gonna be interesting. i hope to see ace/master/evga classified. cause seems like the way ppl support these three companies .. is hoping they bankrupt soon. lol


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> I mean when people show their stable daily oc would be great if they show tm5 1usmus 20 cycle + Hci 400% + karhu 6400% + ycruncher 2.5b


yeah but time. mine coming now since i found DA ram silicon lottery i wanted


----------



## IronAge

> Test BIOS for Maximus Z790 Apex
> Test BIOS / 2022-Nov-04 / By  bianbao
> 
> BIOS Ver. 0088
> update memory overclock capability.
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-APEX-ASUS-0088.CAP
> 文件分享


source: Test BIOS for Maximus Z790 Apex | bianbao.dev

Waiting for my 2022 Z690 Apex from RMA, which will be sold for ... quess what, gotto love them Apex hookers.


----------



## Nizzen

Weekend bios for extreme too 









ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-EXTREME-ASUS-0088.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## opt33

tps3443 said:


> Honestly, I think they are the same thing. Newegg is just profiting like $20 or $30 extra dollars off those 7600 vs 7200’s for a slightly faster XMP profile. I’ve got my Team Group 7200’s at 7600C34 100% stable.


If you look on newegg, teamgroup is releasing 7600, 7200, 7000, and 6800 bins (just like other manufactures likely will). The cost goes up $5 per bin until 7200 to 7600 jump, then up $40. And each bin has guardband so should go higher. Pretty sure if you buy lowest bin 6800 and try to run same settings/voltages as 7600 you will be more than likely disappointed. But given guardband, not surprising for some in the 7200 bin to do 7600, or some in the 7600 bin to do 8000. Also possible some of 7200 batch were not binned out for 7600. 

But no different then buying 13900k (not binned yet) vs buying 13900k after kits are binned for 13900ks. Buy early or buy binned.


----------



## rulik006

WebsterRKL said:


> These are slightly better.
> $409 from Newegg October 20th - 1st batch.


Can't say about D5 G.skill
But in ddr4 B-die territory Corsair is step ahead in ICs quality compared to G.Skill's scam


----------



## IronAge

WebsterRKL said:


> Wait one minute. Did you receive a pre-tested board directly from ASUS?


Why do you even ask, or where can you buy it ?  None of the etailers have Z790 Apex on stock ATM.


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> diff.
> one is chipset ram stability
> second is aib tuning skews/mrc training
> then voltage delivery stability mobo side
> cpu temps also matter.
> 
> so ram manufacturer can only go so far bro
> cpu on aib can either tune wide but limit top clock or narrow. then u got the enginerring side. diff product lines apex, extreme right down to prime
> 
> not easy.
> 
> 13900k looks like has many variables more than 12900k since now we havd adie which can clock high with low vdd
> 
> so its gonna be interesting. i hope to see ace/master/evga classified. cause seems like the way ppl support these three companies .. is hoping they bankrupt soon. lol


we already have one dram vendor binning a die on a four dimm mobo at pre test reaching 7800mhz out of factory.
so if that is true then it means there are plenty of things dram vendors can do before shipping out these expensive kits.
just go look at gskill's qvl of their a die kits, they use only apex z790 for now.

a party who has cpu ram mobo cooling os etc on hands, it is called end user, and they are probably paid for these and follow qvl in advance.


----------



## cstkl1

@hulk


asdkj1740 said:


> we already have one dram vendor binning a die on a four dimm mobo at pre test reaching 7800mhz out of factory.
> so that is true then it means there are plenty of things dram vendors can do before shipping out these expensive kits.
> just go look at gskill's qvl of their a die kits, they use only apex z790 for now.
> 
> a party who has cpu ram mobo cooling os etc on hands, it is called end user, and they are probably paid for these and follow qvl in advance.


@owikh84 tell him. lol.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> we already have one dram vendor binning a die on a four dimm mobo at pre test reaching 7800mhz out of factory.
> so that is true then it means there are plenty of things dram vendors can do before shipping out these expensive kits.
> just go look at gskill's qvl of their a die kits, they use only apex z790 for now.
> 
> a party who has cpu ram mobo cooling os etc on hands, it is called end user, and they are probably paid for these and follow qvl in advance.


7600 kit issue solved btw on hero/extreme.


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> Can't say about D5 G.skill
> But in ddr4 B-die territory Corsair is step ahead in ICs quality compared to G.Skill's scam


Random... Every vendor suck. Need to bin everything


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> 7600 kit issue solved btw on hero/extreme.


the teamgroup magician just did 2*16g 8200 on extreme or hero i forget, by using 7800 kit.
7600mhz kits seem to be so bad, i have seen lots of ppl with different mobos saying the kit is not stable when xmp is enabled.
that may explain why msi lists 7200mhz max in qvl for all of their mobos.


----------



## cstkl1

rulik006 said:


> Can't say about D5 G.skill
> But in ddr4 B-die territory Corsair is step ahead in ICs quality compared to G.Skill's scam


5066c17 sr and 4533 - 4700 dr bdie? 
afaik all was oced from gskill the pcb revision end of 2020 .

still binning is binning
then u got cpu imc. lousy cpu. blame aib/ram manufactorer. 🤣


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> the teamgroup magician just did 2*16g 8200 on extreme or hero i forget, by using 7800 kit.


ask him his cpu sp. 

korean no magician did fully stable 8kc32 on extreme. sp 12x p core


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> ask him his cpu sp.
> 
> korean no magician did fully stable 8kc32 on extreme. sp 12x p core


13900k seems to be extremely varied in terms of imc.
i have seen some 13900k cant even do 7600mhz.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> 13900k seems to be extremely varied in terms of imc.
> i have seen some 13900k cant even do 7600mhz.


wait for @owikh84 he can do 7800 now on green pcb on z690 extreme.


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> wait for @owikh84 he can do 7800 now on green pcb on z690 extreme.


i agree without knowing how good is the imc in 13900k in advance, it is too risky to buy expensive a die kits over hynix green sticks.

the point is the so called qvl is so misleading to the public.


----------



## cstkl1

asdkj1740 said:


> i agree without knowing how good is the imc in 13900k in advance, it is too risky to buy expensive a die kits over hynix green sticks.
> 
> the point is the so called qvl is so misleading to the public.


but so was
ddr4 4800 bdie, 4400 dr bdie, 5600 sr hynix
ddr3 2000 elpida hyper,2666c10 samsung, 2933 hynix
ddr2 1250c14 geil, 1200c14 and the famous 8888 dominator

nobody can control imc quality and cooling of end user. i mean its sad if he cant test to figure out where the issue is. but i guess you are right. get good cpu first.


----------



## tps3443

opt33 said:


> If you look on newegg, teamgroup is releasing 7600, 7200, 7000, and 6800 bins (just like other manufactures likely will). The cost goes up $5 per bin until 7200 to 7600 jump, then up $40. And each bin has guardband so should go higher. Pretty sure if you buy lowest bin 6800 and try to run same settings/voltages as 7600 you will be more than likely disappointed. But given guardband, not surprising for some in the 7200 bin to do 7600, or some in the 7600 bin to do 8000. Also possible some of 7200 batch were not binned out for 7600.
> 
> But no different then buying 13900k (not binned yet) vs buying 13900k after kits are binned for 13900ks. Buy early or buy binned.


Thats because the 6800 is Hynix M die.

The 7200 and 7600 are Hynix A-die.

Trust me, people are overclocking up Hynix A 5600Mhz green sticks all the way to over 8,000.

I own the 7200 Team Group, I was testing 8000 last night.


----------



## asdkj1740

tps3443 said:


> Thats because the 6800 is Hynix M die.
> 
> The 7200 and 7600 are Hynix A-die.
> 
> Trust me, people are overclocking up Hynix A 5600Mhz green sticks all the way to over 8,000


the voltages at 8000mhz for green sticks in general are super high compared to dram vendors a die kits.


----------



## IronAge

Dodgexander said:


> Any tips for me?


Buy different DIMM kit; Micron DDR5 sucks, it is not worth the hassle for literally no noticeable improvement.

i got TG 4800 Elite with Micron IC, max 5400C38 been stable.


----------



## rulik006

cstkl1 said:


> 5066c17 sr and 4533 - 4700 dr bdie?
> afaik all was oced from gskill the pcb revision end of 2020 .
> 
> still binning is binning
> then u got cpu imc. lousy cpu. blame aib/ram manufactorer. 🤣


Its not about high freq, its about ic's quallity. I had a lot of G.skill b-die memory, more than you had in your life
And want to people know how scummy G.skill is. Their "top" royal kits like 4266c17 2021+ or 4800c18 2019 not able to do 4000c14 at 1.55v
4266c17 are so average that they need 1.43v to pass MT86 at 3600c14 and to 1.44v to pass TM5
While Dominator Platinum 3600c14/ Vengeance 3600c14/ Oloy Blade 3600c14 can do that at 1.38v and can do 4000c14 at 1.55v
Team Xtreem ARGB 3600c14 2x16 needs 1.40v
Only good G.skill is Royal 4000c16/4000c17/4266c17/4400c17 which was made in 2020, while rest is garbage which loosing to Patriot/Team/Oloy/Corsair

How i can praise G.Skill if their 4266c17 Royal kits are not better than a random 3200c16-18 Dominators


Spoiler


----------



## the_patchelor

can we come back to DDDR5 please?

Anyone having some beta bios for MSI Z790i Edge ITX? I saw 1.11TB or so. 
stuck now on 7600C36, 7800 tricky to post already with my official 1.11, not knowing if my IMC is limiting or the bios?!


----------



## anjunawave

LilOliVert said:


> Asus motherboards having memory problems automatically makes me suspect the Dimm slots aren't functioning properly. If you haven't already, test each slot, 1 at a time, with a good stick of ram. Basically, you need to see how fast each slot can go without issue and if they don't go as high as advertised, start an RMA. It's happened to a lot of people, including me


Thank you for your reply, the 4 sticks are fine, i have alredy processed memtest with all of them with XMP1 and XMP2 profile, i having issue only using 4 of them in quad-channel with XMP1 or XMP2...
i have also tryied to push some more Voltages but no changes... it's keep unstalbe, all problems come's when i have updated my motherboard to a new bios... the old bios was fine


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> Its not about high freq, its about ic's quallity. I had a lot of G.skill b-die memory, more than you had in your life
> And want to people know how scummy G.skill is. Their "top" royal kits like 4266c17 2021+ or 4800c18 2019 not able to do 4000c14 at 1.55v
> 4266c17 are so average that they need 1.43v to pass MT86 at 3600c14 and to 1.44v to pass TM5
> While Dominator Platinum 3600c14/ Vengeance 3600c14/ Oloy Blade 3600c14 can do that at 1.38v and can do 4000c14 at 1.55v
> Team Xtreem ARGB 3600c14 2x16 needs 1.40v
> Only good G.skill is Royal 4000c16/4000c17/4266c17/4400c17 which was made in 2020, while rest is garbage which loosing to Patriot/Team/Oloy/Corsair
> 
> How i can praise G.Skill if their 4266c17 Royal kits are not better than a random 3200c16-18 Dominators


Buy 1000 G.skill DDR5 and 1000 kits of another brand of DDR5. Test every kit, then repport back, if G.skill is worse than other brands 
Only way to actual proof something. Maybe you even need more than 1000 kits....


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can someone share a die stable setting on 12900k? Thanks.


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone share a die stable setting on 12900k? Thanks.


Hope you know EVERY cpu is different, and so are DDR5 kits, so using the same settings isn't going to work 100% one every setup.?
From our friends from Clock Em Up:


----------



## rulik006

Nizzen said:


> Buy 1000 G.skill DDR5 and 1000 kits of another brand of DDR5. Test every kit, then repport back, if G.skill is worse than other brands
> Only way to actual proof something. Maybe you even need more than 1000 kits....


Dont know what will be with DDR5, but bald claims that 7600 TridentZ better than 7200 Dominators cause laugh, based how they like to sell average stuff like a pre-top
Just want to people know that G.Skill is scummy and be awarned, at least this related to DDR4


----------



## cstkl1

rulik006 said:


> Dont know what will be with DDR5, but bald claims that 7600 TridentZ better than 7200 Dominators cause laugh, based how they like to sell average stuff like a pre-top
> Just want to people know that G.Skill is scummy and be awarned, at least this related to DDR4


shouldnt you be busy warring to be laughing. 🤔🤣


----------



## opt33

tps3443 said:


> Thats because the 6800 is Hynix M die.
> 
> The 7200 and 7600 are Hynix A-die.
> 
> Trust me, people are overclocking up Hynix A 5600Mhz green sticks all the way to over 8,000.
> 
> I own the 7200 Team Group, I was testing 8000 last night.


yes, people binning 300 kits of hynix A die 5600 and some percent of those will do 7600 at 1.4, some wont. teamgroup and other vendors simply doing same. 6800 also comes in a die, 7000 kit bin are a die.

but agreed if you can do 8000 with tm5 for an hour or memetest for an hour at 1.45ish vdd/vddq then agreed your particular kit could have made it in 7600 bin, looking forward to seeing 8000 stable run.


----------



## NBPDC505

Z790 Hero beta BIOS 0088 up on the forums, anyone tried it yet?

RaptorLake Resources (asus.com)


----------



## raiikd

Is Gskill 6800mhz A Die? This site says it is [UNBOXING] GSKill Trident Z5 RGB 6800 MHz CL34 DDR5 A-die. I have the black version.


----------



## asdkj1740

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone share a die stable setting on 12900k? Thanks.


but what kit is that?
poor 12900k with bad m die oc should expect ~7200mhz for a die.


----------



## the_patchelor

raiikd said:


> Is Gskill 6800mhz A Die? This site says it is [UNBOXING] GSKill Trident Z5 RGB 6800 MHz CL34 DDR5 A-die. I have the black version.


there is a small sticker on your memory heat spreader, please just check it, we can't look inside your PC


----------



## domdtxdissar

rulik006 said:


> Its not about high freq, its about ic's quallity. I had a lot of G.skill b-die memory, more than you had in your life
> And want to people know how scummy G.skill is. Their "top" royal kits like 4266c17 2021+ or 4800c18 2019 not able to do 4000c14 at 1.55v
> 4266c17 are so average that they need 1.43v to pass MT86 at 3600c14 and to 1.44v to pass TM5
> While Dominator Platinum 3600c14/ Vengeance 3600c14/ Oloy Blade 3600c14 can do that at 1.38v and can do 4000c14 at 1.55v
> Team Xtreem ARGB 3600c14 2x16 needs 1.40v
> Only good G.skill is Royal 4000c16/4000c17/4266c17/4400c17 which was made in 2020, while rest is garbage which loosing to Patriot/Team/Oloy/Corsair
> 
> How i can praise G.Skill if their 4266c17 Royal kits are not better than a random 3200c16-18 Dominators
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2580800
> 
> View attachment 2580799
> 
> View attachment 2580788
> 
> View attachment 2580786


I have no horse in this race but my dualrank 2x16GB gskill XMP 4000 CL14 did pretty good i think.. Granted i ran it on a Zen3 platform, but i could run these settings and complete all stability tests..

5950x synced 1900FCLK:*3800MT/s CL13 T1* (my daily 24/7 settings)









5950x asynced 1900FCLK:*4466MT/s CL15 T2* (limited by cpu/platform)


----------



## the_patchelor

oh a nice Intel 5950x with DDR5 memory...

"_Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability Thread"


----------



## raiikd

Looks like it says the same OT56KS820A


----------



## the_patchelor

A-Dies


----------



## rulik006

domdtxdissar said:


> I have no horse in this race but my dualrank 2x16GB gskill XMP 4000 CL14 did pretty good i think.. Granted i ran it on a Zen3 platform, but i could run these settings and complete all stability tests..


Ofc they good, because all top IC's goes to 4000c14 XMP, while rest is average
Other brands don't have 4000c14 XMP, except Oloy(only on 2x8) so when you buy Team/Patriot/Corsair you can get 4000c14 capable IC's for half the price


----------



## asdkj1740

raiikd said:


> Looks like it says the same OT56KS820A


A=A DIE


----------



## domdtxdissar

rulik006 said:


> Ofc they good, because all top IC's goes to 4000c14 XMP, while rest is average
> Other brands dont have 4000c14 XMP's, except Oloy, but only on 2x8, so when you buy Team/Patriot/Corsair you can get 4000c14 capable IC's for half price


Yes think you are quite right, majority the best chips went to the 4000c14 bin..
But then again, i think this was a good thing as you were guarantied to get a good SKU when you bought this set.  (if you could find it in stock and had the money)

Back to DDR5:
Since i'm still running "that other platform" i'm searching for memory SKU's that can run the tightest timings since i'm clockspeed limited again. Currently its Corsair M-die XMP 6600 CL32 that's winning in my book.. This is how tight i have managed to get so far with full stability: (pretty sure tWR and tRTP can come down)








If anyone else have any points please let me know


----------



## Carillo

Today, it's Geekbench day. Finally in the 16K club. Cheers 🍻


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Today, it's Geekbench day. Finally in the 16K club. Cheers 🍻
> 
> View attachment 2580824


Wild 🤩😎


----------



## jerrytsao

Carillo said:


> Today, it's Geekbench day. Finally in the 16K club. Cheers 🍻
> 
> View attachment 2580824


This is pure awesomeness...


----------



## tps3443

asdkj1740 said:


> the voltages at 8000mhz for green sticks in general are super high compared to dram vendors a die kits.


All I said originally was that the XMP 7200’s or XMP 7600’s are the same thing, buy either one available. They are both Hynix A-Die. I have 7200’s 100% stable at 7600 through HCI Memtest. Everyone I know with a set has overclocked them to 7600+.

So, I would take any of them. So long as it is Hynix A-Die that is. A lot of people say the 5600 Green sticks OC the best they are not being binned and sold off.


----------



## Carillo

tps3443 said:


> All I said originally was that the XMP 7200’s or XMP 7600’s are the same thing, buy either one available. They are both Hynix A-Die. I have 7200’s 100% stable at 7600 through HCI Memtest. Everyone I know with a set has overclocked them to 7600+.
> 
> So, I would take any of them. So long as it is Hynix A-Die that is. A lot of people say the 5600 Green sticks OC the best they are not being binned and sold off.


According to Splave is an average green stick better binned than anything available in the market today. And it’s safe to say he has been trough a couple of kits.


----------



## cstkl1

tps3443 said:


> All I said originally was that the XMP 7200’s or XMP 7600’s are the same thing, buy either one available. They are both Hynix A-Die. I have 7200’s 100% stable at 7600 through HCI Memtest. Everyone I know with a set has overclocked them to 7600+.
> 
> So, I would take any of them. So long as it is Hynix A-Die that is. A lot of people say the 5600 Green sticks OC the best they are not being binned and sold off.


like i told my friend. those sellers. are we buying from reject pile that somebody binned??

and what if that seller bought from another reject bin??

we be buying alot of expensjve future keychain / ruler. 

so best buy from credible source


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> like i told my friend. those sellers. are we buying from reject pile that somebody binned??
> 
> and what if that seller bought from another reject bin??
> 
> we be buying alot of expensjve future keychain / ruler.
> 
> so best buy from credible source


Good point


----------



## z390e

Carillo said:


> According to spalve is an average green stick better binned than anything available in the market today. And it’s safe to say he has been trough a couple of kits.


yeah but when he posted that he was selling them, RPL hadn't yet released, and there was no 7600+ XMP kits available

and everyone knows salesmen say the darndest things


----------



## tubs2x4

tps3443 said:


> I test my memory like this with HCI Memtest full coverage (16) apps of it running with all ram used for a few hours at least. If it can do 2 hours with no errors, I call it good.
> 
> As for My cpu I don’t like to power stress my processors. Absolutely no need. I try to keep temps very cool for longevity and avoid degradation. So I typically use just R23 30 minute a few times, and IBT full ram usage. If my ram is stable, and my cpu through those. This system will never fail me in anything I use.
> 
> I have the cooling power to brute force a CPU through anything if I want though.
> 
> View attachment 2580755


ive passed doing that way but my game would still crash... so i just use gaming for testing haha


----------



## z390e

the games might be crashing because your GPU memory or GPU boost is too high, each application has a different maximum amount for these values


----------



## tps3443

tubs2x4 said:


> ive passed doing that way but my game would still crash... so i just use gaming for testing haha


Not me, if it gets through this it will get through any game imaginable. I’m testing with 32 HCI Memtest apps running now and 952.5mb for each app. If you have a problem with your memory, HCI Memtest will find it, the thing about games is they don’t fill your ram up and they don’t heat it up either. They only use a portion of it.

DDR5 7600
262K tREFI
16 tFAW
MAX TEMP= 33.3C both dimms.
Current temp= 32.8C both dimms.


----------



## opt33

Carillo said:


> Today, it's Geekbench day. Finally in the 16K club. Cheers 🍻


wow, z790 apex looks sweet if imc/cpu is up to task.


----------



## opt33

tubs2x4 said:


> ive passed doing that way but my game would still crash... so i just use gaming for testing haha


when I pass TM5 1.5hrs, overnight karhu but still CTD in games, almost always been mem controller/rail voltages too low and never dram vdd/vddq (if ram issue). And yeah, until I game for many hours without imc issue/CTD, I dont call my memory oc stable...could run y cruncher for imc but pass on the amps. Too low cpu vddq/vdd2 ended up being my problem with 7400c34, which now gaming/reboot stable for past week.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Spectacular Motherboard. It's so beautiful!


----------



## J_Lab4645

At friends casa testing 13th gen on Asus Strix Z690-E. Memtweakit only showing (About) tab. And 'yes' I have VMX disabled in bios. Is this mobo not compatible with memory tuning from this app? Any comments/suggestions welcome. Works perfectly fine on my z690 Apex.
Bios: 2103
Latest ME firmware


----------



## GGiuliano93

Hello guys, i bought a new pc, i9 13900k, z790 hero and 32gb ddr5 from gskill (F5-7200J3445G16G).
When i activate xmp i get errors on memtest. If i disable xmp i get no errors on memtest, but i wanted 7200mhz not 4800 lol.
I am new on ddr5 so don't know much, can anyone help me to set timing and voltages?

34.0-45-45-115-160 @ 3600 MHz (1.400 Volts)
These are the values on xmp (1) profile.

Thank you!


----------



## bscool

J_Lab4645 said:


> At friends casa testing 13th gen on Asus Strix Z690-E. Memtweakit only showing (About) tab. And 'yes' I have VMX disabled in bios. Is this mobo not compatible with memory tuning from this app? Any comments/suggestions welcome. Works perfectly fine on my z690 Apex.
> Bios: 2103
> Latest ME firmware
> View attachment 2580885


There is are a couple newer versions. Unless you have those, then I dont know.










MemTweakIt_20221101.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. just not sure which batch. Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com Part# doesn't...




www.overclock.net


----------



## NBPDC505

GGiuliano93 said:


> Hello guys, i bought a new pc, i9 13900k, z790 hero and 32gb ddr5 from gskill (F5-7200J3445G16G).
> When i activate xmp i get errors on memtest. If i disable xmp i get no errors on memtest, but i wanted 7200mhz not 4800 lol.
> I am new on ddr5 so don't know much, can anyone help me to set timing and voltages?
> 
> 34.0-45-45-115-160 @ 3600 MHz (1.400 Volts)
> These are the values on xmp (1) profile.
> 
> Thank you!


Which BIOS are you on? If it's the one on the ASUS site (0502) then you will have errors. Try a newer version like 0703 or 0088 from here: RaptorLake Resources (asus.com)


----------



## GGiuliano93

NBPDC505 said:


> Which BIOS are you on? If it's the one on the ASUS site (0502) then you will have errors. Try a newer version like 0703 or 0088 from here: RaptorLake Resources (asus.com)


I am on 0502. Now i will try those, thank you.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

opt33 said:


> wow, z790 apex looks sweet if imc/cpu is up to task.


Sounds like the last Apex then?


----------



## TraumatikOC

GGiuliano93 said:


> Hello guys, i bought a new pc, i9 13900k, z790 hero and 32gb ddr5 from gskill (F5-7200J3445G16G).
> When i activate xmp i get errors on memtest. If i disable xmp i get no errors on memtest, but i wanted 7200mhz not 4800 lol.
> I am new on ddr5 so don't know much, can anyone help me to set timing and voltages?
> 34.0-45-45-115-160 @ 3600 MHz (1.400 Volts)
> These are the values on xmp (1) profile.
> Thank you!


I just got my z790 Hero and Gskill 7200 2x16 in A2 B2 slots with 13900k on a clean install of win 11 22h2 today. I set xmp1 and did bios memtest and passed all 4 tests. On my asus z690 extreme 2021 ver, i had gksill 6000 2x16 cl 36 and TG 6200 cl38 2x16 and to get them almost stable at advertised speeds i had to tweak all voltages and timings, this was on 2 12900k 2 12900ks and the 13900k. Now this z790 hero board with same ram and processors i only had to set xmp1 and all worked as advertised. ( 2 forum mods tried to blame my cpus ( all 5 ) and the memory, here it was the z690 extreme, either the bios or mobo, i lean towards the mobo since asus had rough launch with hero, then apex, and early extreme.) 

I dont have time now to tweak timings and voltages , but i tried 7600 and it wouldnt work , settled on 7400. for now
Im on 0502 , no errors and working fine. at 7400. If you still have problems try the asus tweak option on 1 or 2 to see if helps?


----------



## GGiuliano93

TraumatikOC said:


> I just got my z790 Hero and Gskill 7200 2x16 in A2 B2 slots with 13900k on a clean install of win 11 22h2 today. I set xmp1 and did bios memtest and passed all 4 tests. On my asus z690 extreme 2021 ver, i had gksill 6000 2x16 cl 36 and TG 6200 cl38 2x16 and to get them almost stable at advertised speeds i had to tweak all voltages and timings, this was on 2 12900k 2 12900ks and the 13900k. Now this z790 hero board with same ram and processors i only had to set xmp1 and all worked as advertised. ( 2 forum mods tried to blame my cpus ( all 5 ) and the memory, here it was the z690 extreme, either the bios or mobo, i lean towards the mobo since asus had rough launch with hero, then apex, and early extreme.)
> 
> I dont have time now to tweak timings and voltages , but i tried 7600 and it wouldnt work , settled on 7400. for now
> Im on 0502 , no errors and working fine. at 7400. If you still have problems try the asus tweak option on 1 or 2 to see if helps?
> View attachment 2580906
> View attachment 2580907
> View attachment 2580908


Tried xmp1 and 2, still errors. Now i selected xmp and lowered to 7000mhz, i am on pass 2/4 with no errors atm. It’s not 7200 but better than 4800 lol.


----------



## sulalin

TraumatikOC said:


> I just got my z790 Hero and Gskill 7200 2x16 in A2 B2 slots with 13900k on a clean install of win 11 22h2 today. I set xmp1 and did bios memtest and passed all 4 tests. On my asus z690 extreme 2021 ver, i had gksill 6000 2x16 cl 36 and TG 6200 cl38 2x16 and to get them almost stable at advertised speeds i had to tweak all voltages and timings, this was on 2 12900k 2 12900ks and the 13900k. Now this z790 hero board with same ram and processors i only had to set xmp1 and all worked as advertised. ( 2 forum mods tried to blame my cpus ( all 5 ) and the memory, here it was the z690 extreme, either the bios or mobo, i lean towards the mobo since asus had rough launch with hero, then apex, and early extreme.)
> 
> I dont have time now to tweak timings and voltages , but i tried 7600 and it wouldnt work , settled on 7400. for now
> Im on 0502 , no errors and working fine. at 7400. If you still have problems try the asus tweak option on 1 or 2 to see if helps?
> View attachment 2580906
> View attachment 2580907
> View attachment 2580908


Update your BIOS to the latest version
























BIOS has a great impact on memory frequency overclocking and stability! Update BIOS first


----------



## GGiuliano93

sulalin said:


> Update your BIOS to the latest version
> View attachment 2580914
> 
> View attachment 2580915
> 
> View attachment 2580916
> 
> BIOS has a great impact on memory frequency overclocking and stability! Update BIOS first


I have the 0502 bios, it’s the only one on the asus website…


----------



## sulalin

GGiuliano93，帖子：29064398，成員：679776 said:


> 我有0502 bios，這是華碩網站上唯一的一個……
> [/引用]
> 你先用這個版本，應該會有更新，可能要問別人
> 另外，如果你使用RUNMEMTESTPRO 7.0，也應該換成13代版本
> 作為鏈接
> 0703BIOS：ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-HERO-ASUS-0703.zip
> 0067BIOS：ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-HERO-ASUS-0067.zip
> RUNMEMTESTPRO 7.0 新版本解壓後需要先在文件夾中安裝一個應用程序
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RPLRunMemtestPro_5.1.rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 先執行安裝程序，然後以管理員權限打開
> windowsdesktop-runtime-5.0.9-win-x64


----------



## sulalin

#TForce Delta Opb.special ed.
DDR 8000 36-46-46-76-585-Twcl 34
1.4v Vdd, 1.4v Vddq, 1.4v Imc
Asrock Timings Configuration
Z790 Hero(2Dpc)
chi memtest pro 7.0 200+%

Z790 APEX 8200MHZ MEMTEST


----------



## sugi0lover

testing GB3
○ Ram : DDR5-5600 SK Hynix
○ Ram OC : 8600hz-34-47-47-32 (no bclk oc)
○ MB : Z790 Apex


----------



## cstkl1

GGiuliano93 said:


> Tried xmp1 and 2, still errors. Now i selected xmp and lowered to 7000mhz, i am on pass 2/4 with no errors atm. It’s not 7200 but better than 4800 lol.


use latest weekend bios


----------



## cstkl1

sulalin said:


> #TForce Delta Opb.special ed.
> DDR 8000 36-46-46-76-585-Twcl 34
> 1.4v Vdd, 1.4v Vddq, 1.4v Imc
> Asrock Timings Configuration
> Z790 Hero(2Dpc)
> chi memtest pro 7.0 200+%
> View attachment 2580932


have u ever seen or bin any ram that does better than [email protected] 🤔

curious on best adie


----------



## sulalin

cstkl1 said:


> have u ever seen or bin any ram that does better than [email protected] 🤔
> 
> curious on best adie


I personally think 4DIMM 16G*2 8000MHZ CL 34~36

1.4V are all good ICs!

Maybe 2DIMM 16G*2 8000MHZ CL 34~36 may not be able to 1.4V

Green PCB I think there should be no way. This is the original green PCB and commercially available heat sink memory

The difference on ADIE !


----------



## GGiuliano93

cstkl1 said:


> use latest weekend bios


is the ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-HERO-ASUS-0088?


----------



## sugi0lover

8200 CL34 stable oc posted (not my result)
- VDD 1.68v , VDDQ 1.66, VDDQ TX 1.6 MC1.42V ,SA 1.15V


----------



## rulik006

Carillo said:


> According to spalve is an average green stick better binned than anything available in the market today. And it’s safe to say he has been trough a couple of kits.





sugi0lover said:


> ○ Ram : DDR5-5600 SK Hynix
> ○ Ram OC : 8600hz-34-47-47-32 (no bclk oc)
> View attachment 2580935


No way! you have binned 9999 sticks to get cherry picked 8600 xD. or only 4?


----------



## energie80

waiting for my teamgroup 7600...not sure about this purchase since my m die are going strong at 6933c30 tight timings


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> No way! you have binned 9999 sticks to get cherry picked 8600 xD. or only 4?


I bought 4 dimms, and Carillo got 2 of mine. We took 2 random each. Looks like Carillo got 2x good. I'm pretty satisfied myself 
Green Hynix is MAD 🤪


----------



## sugi0lover

rulik006 said:


> No way! you have binned 9999 sticks to get cherry picked 8600 xD. or only 4?


Yes. bought 4 A-die sticks so far and am using the best 2 out of 4.


----------



## TraumatikOC

sulalin said:


> Update your BIOS to the latest version
> View attachment 2580914
> 
> View attachment 2580915
> 
> View attachment 2580916
> 
> BIOS has a great impact on memory frequency overclocking and stability! Update BIOS first


I only use Bios from official asus support mobo page. For now since this bios works great on all 3 ram kits and also gives me 200 oc on the gskill 7200 im really happy. 
GG on the ones that have the apex already. I def would have got that if was on sale to normies


----------



## TraumatikOC

energie80 said:


> waiting for my teamgroup 7600...not sure about this purchase since my m die are going strong at 6933c30 tight timings


I think you will be happier on tg 7600 , i am on the gskill 7200 at 7400 so far, later today ill start tweaking. Would have got the kit you got but newegg didnt show stock when i ordered, noticed the TG had bit tighter timings then Gskill.

Can anybody recommend timings voltage tweaks for my gskill 7200 to get lower latency then 63ns ? TIA


----------



## energie80

That’s why I preferred the tg, better timings and headspreader


----------



## affxct

tps3443 said:


> Not me, if it gets through this it will get through any game imaginable. I’m testing with 32 HCI Memtest apps running now and 952.5mb for each app. If you have a problem with your memory, HCI Memtest will find it, the thing about games is they don’t fill your ram up and they don’t heat it up either. They only use a portion of it.
> 
> DDR5 7600
> 262K tREFI
> 16 tFAW
> MAX TEMP= 33.3C both dimms.
> Current temp= 32.8C both dimms.
> 
> View attachment 2580867
> View attachment 2580868


I love HCI, but late errors do happen. For that reason I’ve been calling 600-650 stable as of late. I don’t have a case so my issues aren’t heat related either. It kinda just happens. You’ll be at 500 and boom, error.


----------



## J_Lab4645

bscool said:


> There is are a couple newer versions. Unless you have those, then I dont know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MemTweakIt_20221101.zip
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> amazon had it in stock afaik 309usd now. just not sure which batch. Only one I can find is G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6600 CL34-40-40-105 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com Part# doesn't...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net



Really appreciate it! That version you linked worked! U da' man


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> I love HCI, but late errors do happen. For that reason I’ve been calling 600-650 stable as of late. I don’t have a case so my issues aren’t heat related either. It kinda just happens. You’ll be at 500 and boom, error.


I don't know if 600-650 or 500 can be considered late, though.

I used to swear by HCI but moved to Karhu when I went to DDR5. I had paid for HCI Pro, but unfortunately lost my key and couldn't find a way to pay for a new one without mailing cash or something. Apparently the owner has a war with PayPal now, or the government or something... either way, not wasting my time mailing ****.

Karhu has been extremely reliable. Usually 500-650% errors in Karhu lean towards incorrect VDDQ TX/DRAM VDDQ combinations. Can't say that's the same for HCI, though.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Well with New Asus Z790 Hero, Setting XMP1 profile for G.Skill Trident X5 6400. BSOD again 25 to 40 minutes into Variable Large Data Set test.

Could I have lost the silicon lottery regarding my 13900K IMC?? It has an SP score overall of 98, P cores 107 and e-cores 80, though I have e-cores off.

Are there any 13900K whose IMC is unable to handle 6400MHZ with 32-39-39-102 XMP timings??


----------



## cstkl1

Wolverine2349 said:


> Well with New Asus Z790 Hero, Setting XMP1 profile for G.Skill Trident X5 6400. BSOD again 25 to 40 minutes into Variable Large Data Set test.
> 
> Could I have lost the silicon lottery regarding my 13900K IMC?? It has an SP score overall of 98, P cores 107 and e-cores 80, though I have e-cores off.
> 
> Are there any 13900K whose IMC is unable to handle 6400MHZ with 32-39-39-102 XMP timings??


try bios 0088


----------



## Wolverine2349

cstkl1 said:


> try bios 0088



I tried that before I even ran any stability tests as soon as build was put together. That was my starting BIOS. And this is the result with XMP1 and now XMP2.


----------



## Merkor

Wolverine2349 said:


> Well with New Asus Z790 Hero, Setting XMP1 profile for G.Skill Trident X5 6400. BSOD again 25 to 40 minutes into Variable Large Data Set test.


So this is with the 0088 BIOS? Are you using a CPU contact frame? Hynix M-Die or A-Die on these G.Skill (check the end of the serial if it is 820M or 820A)?

Edit: Did you update the Intel Management Firmware to xxxxx.2020?


----------



## acoustic

Wolverine2349 said:


> Well with New Asus Z790 Hero, Setting XMP1 profile for G.Skill Trident X5 6400. BSOD again 25 to 40 minutes into Variable Large Data Set test.
> 
> Could I have lost the silicon lottery regarding my 13900K IMC?? It has an SP score overall of 98, P cores 107 and e-cores 80, though I have e-cores off.
> 
> Are there any 13900K whose IMC is unable to handle 6400MHZ with 32-39-39-102 XMP timings??


Is this 2 sticks or 4 sticks?

Ensure your ME driver/firmware are up to date. If using a contact frame, try reseating it. If that doesn't help, I'd actually suggest putting the stock ILM back on, and using that for testing.. I know it sucks, but it rules out a variable.

I have the Thermalright frame and I haven't had any issues. Tighten screws down with my small driver, and get them nice and snug.. and done. Seems other frames have more of an issue with this..


----------



## J_Lab4645

Wolverine2349 said:


> Well with New Asus Z790 Hero, Setting XMP1 profile for G.Skill Trident X5 6400. BSOD again 25 to 40 minutes into Variable Large Data Set test.
> 
> Could I have lost the silicon lottery regarding my 13900K IMC?? It has an SP score overall of 98, P cores 107 and e-cores 80, though I have e-cores off.
> 
> Are there any 13900K whose IMC is unable to handle 6400MHZ with 32-39-39-102 XMP timings??


These are Gskill 6400 32/39/39/102. After spending months trying to OC these with tight timings and never getting them stable on one of my Z690 Apex. What it finally ended up being was the following:
1) You need a mobo that has at least 2 dimm slots that work properly. 2) I went through 3 kits of the Gskill ram to find 2 sticks that can handle what you want to throw at them. I'm serious here. Test each dimm module separately. 4 out of 6 sticks were no bueno. 3)Maybe cpu imc but out of (5) 12th gen and now just (1) 13th gen, I've never encountered one that couldn't handle.

Check each dimm individually. Check each slot individually to narrow it down. You should be able to run XMPI. Use one stick at a time.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Merkor said:


> So this is with the 0088 BIOS? Are you using a CPU contact frame? Hynix M-Die or A-Die on these G.Skill (check the end of the serial if it is 820M or 820A)?


Yes with 0088 BIOS

Yes using CPU Contact frame. The thermalright one and did best to make sure all screws were evenly threaded and I had tried with and without it on the prior motherboard and had issues either way.

Using Noctua NH-D15S Cooler.

The 6400 kit is ending in 820M so MDie.

The 7200Kit ends in 820A so A die.

I was using the 6400 Kit and it is failing even on different mobo.

Have not yet tried the faster A die 7200 kit on new Z790 her mobo.


----------



## Wolverine2349

acoustic said:


> Is this 2 sticks or 4 sticks?
> 
> Ensure your ME driver/firmware are up to date. If using a contact frame, try reseating it. If that doesn't help, I'd actually suggest putting the stock ILM back on, and using that for testing.. I know it sucks, but it rules out a variable.
> 
> I have the Thermalright frame and I haven't had any issues. Tighten screws down with my small driver, and get them nice and snug.. and done. Seems other frames have more of an issue with this..



Its 2 sticks. I have never used 4 of DDR5 and have always used

I did update MEI firmware form ROG Asus forums links and using BIOS 0088 and using latest drivers integrated into Windows 10 install using NTLite.

On the prior motherboard I had tried the contact frame and also stock ILM and same exact problems at XMP settings.

Does DDR5 really take extreme patience and XMP is not a be end all.

I had thought with the refinement of Raptor Lake and new chipsets getting at least 6400MHz to work with 2 sticks XMP set and forget would be easy peasy.

I upgraded to Raptor Lake specifically for better DDR5 and thge 36MB L3 cache for better smoother gaming.

At this point I am very close to giving up and going to a good DDR4 kit with 13900L as DDR5 has just been a nightmare to get good stability at any decent speeds. Lol 4800MHz is a decent speed in Gear 2. Yeah superior bandwidth to even 3600MHz DDR4 and double the command rate, but worse latency in certain aspects.


----------



## Wolverine2349

J_Lab4645 said:


> These are Gskill 6400 32/39/39/102. After spending months trying to OC these with tight timings and never getting them stable on one of my Z690 Apex. What it finally ended up being was the following:
> 1) You need a mobo that has at least 2 dimm slots that work properly. 2) I went through 3 kits of the Gskill ram to find 2 sticks that can handle what you want to throw at them. I'm serious here. Test each dimm module separately. 4 out of 6 sticks were no bueno. 3)Maybe cpu imc but out of (5) 12th gen and now just (1) 13th gen, I've never encountered one that couldn't handle.
> 
> Check each dimm individually. Check each slot individually to narrow it down. You should be able to run XMPI. Use one stick at a time.



A mobo with 2 DIMM slots that work properly?? I am on a 2nd mobo which I paid a lot for. Are the DIMM slots on these mobos really that bad??

Could it also be temps. Is the mid 40s to mid 50s ok. And no I cannot put a fan on them as any permannet solution as no room with a large Noctua NH-D15S in the way even though mobo comes with fan mounting kits.


----------



## Nizzen

Wolverine2349 said:


> I tried that before I even ran any stability tests as soon as build was put together. That was my starting BIOS. And this is the result with XMP1 and now XMP2.


Is it legal to run XMP? I doubt


----------



## acoustic

@Wolverine2349 

Can you try each stick individually, in A2/B2 (your primary slots), and see if XMP enables?


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I don't know if 600-650 or 500 can be considered late, though.
> 
> I used to swear by HCI but moved to Karhu when I went to DDR5. I had paid for HCI Pro, but unfortunately lost my key and couldn't find a way to pay for a new one without mailing cash or something. Apparently the owner has a war with PayPal now, or the government or something... either way, not wasting my time mailing ****.
> 
> Karhu has been extremely reliable. Usually 500-650% errors in Karhu lean towards incorrect VDDQ TX/DRAM VDDQ combinations. Can't say that's the same for HCI, though.


500% in HCI is around 2.5 hours for D5 and 6 hours for D4. With Karhu, 500% is around 10 mins. A lot individuals regard 1 hour of HCI (+-250% with D5) as stable, some regard 25 mins (+-100% with D5) as stable. If you error at 500-600 it’s definitely late. 500% of HCI even with D5, is longer than most individuals run their RAM stress tests for, apart from those who do overnight testing.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> 500% in HCI is around 2.5 hours for D5 and 6 hours for D4. With Karhu, 500% is around 10 mins. A lot individuals regard 1 hour of HCI (+-250% with D5) as stable, some regard 25 mins (+-100% with D5) as stable. If you error at 500-600 it’s definitely late. 500% of HCI even with D5, is longer than most individuals run their RAM stress tests for, apart from those who do overnight testing.


Hmm .. I don't remember HCI taking that long but I also haven't ran it in over a year.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Hmm .. I don't remember HCI taking that long but I also haven't ran it in over a year.


XD, at around 30 mins per 100% D5 runs it fast AF. Hold on.






You don’t have to watch the full video, but just take a look at HWINFO’s clock and the coverage. Before you say “nah you just broke something,” I definitely remember it always taking this long with D4. With D5 the fact that you can finish off a 600% rock solid OC in 3 hours is a godsend.

I actually have a screenshot of this same kit on my Comet Lake stuff before I went to ADL doing a 900% HCI with 4000 15-15-15 and slightly loser secondaries and tertiaries. That 900% took me a full night of sleep and a bit before that. Like I set it up, messed around for a bit, went to bed and woke up to like 900 and a bit %.

I think you might have an HCI Mandela effect going on .


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> You know OCN has become XMP.NET after the big Reddit user base immigration 2020-2022 😅


I can appreciate the fact that if you’re a serious OCer and have been using this site for a while, it might become a bit weird/disappointing when the conversations appear to be far more dumbed down compared to true XOCing. With that said, I think the issue is mainly that with D5 a lot of users have been struggling to get merely XMP working. 

One can’t really head straight to manual tuning when there’s a clear issue with something in their setup, as XMP usually works without issue being that if uses the most conservative settings the vendor screened those particular ICs for (I don’t really know how screening works so I could be wrong).

I am sure that a decent portion of those observing issues at XMP used to OC on D4 and are used to OCing CPUs and GPUs. I think that’s kinda the thing going on here. I’m not going to comment on the vendor in question, but yeah. That’s just been 2022 for a lot of people.


----------



## tps3443

Wolverine2349 said:


> Its 2 sticks. I have never used 4 of DDR5 and have always used
> 
> I did update MEI firmware form ROG Asus forums links and using BIOS 0088 and using latest drivers integrated into Windows 10 install using NTLite.
> 
> On the prior motherboard I had tried the contact frame and also stock ILM and same exact problems at XMP settings.
> 
> Does DDR5 really take extreme patience and XMP is not a be end all.
> 
> I had thought with the refinement of Raptor Lake and new chipsets getting at least 6400MHz to work with 2 sticks XMP set and forget would be easy peasy.
> 
> I upgraded to Raptor Lake specifically for better DDR5 and thge 36MB L3 cache for better smoother gaming.
> 
> At this point I am very close to giving up and going to a good DDR4 kit with 13900L as DDR5 has just been a nightmare to get good stability at any decent speeds. Lol 4800MHz is a decent speed in Gear 2. Yeah superior bandwidth to even 3600MHz DDR4 and double the command rate, but worse latency in certain aspects.


That’s sucks. I’m new to DDR5 and the platform. I have never used 12th Gen at all. I bought a used Z690 Unify-X, and pre-ordered my 13900KF. I also bought the Team group 7200 DDR5. I notice some differences with the new ram over DDR4 it is especially temperature sensitive. But, I enabled XMP 7200 and set a tREFI of 262K with 16 tFAW and it was stable for any amount of time. I was able to go a little further and get 7400 stable, and even 7600 stable both with 262K tREFI/16tFAW. All I did was change the primary timings to match Team Groups faster memory kits. I’m glad to have achieved this on a Z690 motherboard. But I feel like newer Asus Z790 motherboards are much better tuned to handle memory overclocking. I see guys running much lower CPU VDDQ voltages than me, and lower CPU VDD2 voltages as well. I cannot stabilize anymore than 7600. I can bench 7800 and even 8000. The Z790 Apex is looking very good right about now.


----------



## Wolverine2349

tps3443 said:


> That’s sucks. I’m new to DDR5 and the platform. I have never used 12th Gen at all. I bought a used Z690 Unify-X, and pre-ordered my 13900KF. I also bought the Team group 7200 DDR5. I notice some differences with the new ram over DDR4 it is especially temperature sensitive. But, I enabled XMP 7200 and set a tREFI of 262K with 16 tFAW and it was stable for any amount of time. I was able to go a little further and get 7400 stable, and even 7600 stable both with 262K tREFI/16tFAW. All I did was change the primary timings to match Team Groups faster memory kits. I’m glad to have achieved this on a Z690 motherboard. But I feel like newer Asus Z790 motherboards are much better tuned to handle memory overclocking. I see guys running much lower CPU VDDQ voltages than me, and lower CPU VDD2 voltages as well. I cannot stabilize anymore than 7600. I can bench 7800 and even 8000. The Z790 Apex is looking very good right about now.



So is that true for all DDR5 being much more temperature sensitive than DDR4.

What is max temp FOR DDR5.I have heard lower the better.

And is there anyway I can cool it with a fan installed next to a Noctua NH-D15S.


----------



## TraumatikOC

tps3443 said:


> But I feel like newer Asus Z790 motherboards are much better tuned to handle memory overclocking.


My z790 hero board is great compared to my z690 extreme, the extreme struggled with 6000 gskill and 6200 TG timings and voltages needed lots of tweaks, now on z790 hero pop in those two kits and new Gskill 7200, set xmp and it just works. And also trying my 2 12900k and 2 12900ks works the same.. Not worth the flashy anime if cant run xmp thats on mobo qvl and also memory qvls. 
Heck , my 1st z690 extreme nuked my 1st kit of TG 6200 , bluescreen then stuck with memory errors in both kits , had to send back mobo and warranty TG.


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> You know OCN has become XMP.NET after the big Reddit user base immigration 2020-2022 😅


What happened to good old fashion overclocking memory?


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Hello,

Anybody know what a good value to set "DRAM CLK period" is on an asus motherboard? Cant really find any documentation on this. Ive got a Z690 apex motherboard 

Im still using Hynix M-Die. I have a corsair 6600 CL 32 kit. Im waiting until i can get my hands of a corsair A-Die Kit before upgrading.


----------



## tps3443

Wolverine2349 said:


> So is that true for all DDR5 being much more temperature sensitive than DDR4.
> 
> What is max temp FOR DDR5.I have heard lower the better.
> 
> And is there anyway I can cool it with a fan installed next to a Noctua NH-D15S.


Well, at DDR5 7600 it’s pretty sensitive but that’s primarily because I’m at the limits of my motherboard I think. I was running a stability test, full ram usage for over an hour at 7600. Temps we’re about 36C. I removed my fan from the memory and within 45 seconds it started spewing errors and then I got a BSOD in Windows 11 lol. That all happen at around 45C. 

I run a open test bench, so my memory runs really cool for the most part. But keep in mind this is at 7600 with 262k tREFI. If I run just 7200 or 7400 I can get the memory much warmer without any issues at all.

keep it under 40C if your pushing the limits of it, probably more like under 38C realistically. But for 7200 or 7400? it doesn’t seem to care at all if it’s a little warmer.


----------



## Carillo

affxct said:


> I can appreciate the fact that if you’re a serious OCer and have been using this site for a while, it might become a bit weird/disappointing when the conversations appear to be far more dumbed down compared to true XOCing. With that said, I think the issue is mainly that with D5 a lot of users have been struggling to get merely XMP working.
> 
> One can’t really head straight to manual tuning when there’s a clear issue with something in their setup, as XMP usually works without issue being that if uses the most conservative settings the vendor screened those particular ICs for (I don’t really know how screening works so I could be wrong).
> 
> I am sure that a decent portion of those observing issues at XMP used to OC on D4 and are used to OCing CPUs and GPUs. I think that’s kinda the thing going on here. I’m not going to comment on the vendor in question, but yeah. That’s just been 2022 for a lot of people.


Some users here believe that just because some people on OCN posts good to very good results, it means that they have magic hardware that just works better then what everyone else have,and they just push a button and everything just works. No matter what results you see posted here , I promise they have been trough all the same struggles as everyone else! Retrain , retrain , retrain, binning of hardware , BSOD’s and so on…. When I go to bed and close my eyes, I see a blue screen with the text “memory management”. Some guys and girls spend days and days retrying over and over to get the results you see and spends days just reading threads for tips and tricks without asking for help. The XMP guys I’m referring to , is guys not interested using more than 2 minutes to get things stable. They don’t even bother reading 2 pages in this thread. They create an account and scream help!!! Just enable XMP and everything works perfect…… In a perfect world that would be the case , but Ddr5 is new. Read about early adopters. There are probably hundreds of photos with every timing and voltage needed for different speeds and IC models in this thread alone. If you just want to play COD, buy DDR4! I feel the Overclocking community is dying. It’s becoming a IT support chat/ Reddit. Thanks 😊


----------



## TraumatikOC

Carillo said:


> Some users here believe that just because some people on OCN posts good to very good results, it means that they have magic hardware that just works better then what everyone else have,and they just push a button and everything just works. No matter what results you see posted here , I promise they have been trough all the same struggles as everyone else! Retrain , retrain , retrain, binning of hardware , BSOD’s and so on…. When I go to bed and close my eyes, I see a blue screen with the text “memory management”. Some guys and girls spend days and days retrying over and over to get the results you see and spends days just reading threads for tips and tricks without asking for help. The XMP guys I’m referring to , is guys not interested using more than 2 minutes to get things stable. They don’t even bother reading 2 pages in this thread. They create an account and scream help!!! Just enable XMP and everything works perfect…… In a perfect world that would be the case , but Ddr5 is new. Read about early adopters. There are probably hundreds of photos with every timing and voltage needed for different speeds and IC models in this thread alone. If you just want to play COD, buy DDR4! I feel the Overclocking community is dying. It’s becoming a IT support chat/ Reddit. Thanks 😊


I dont play COD  , sorry that users are looking / asking ppl for help on certain things , Me personally it is tiring now that when you enable xmp and then get either errors, bluescreens or weird crashes without any hint of what it was. Reading thru tons of pages to find same setups and finding the tweaks that will work / point in right direction of what to modify. Having companies that finger point to other companies the problem is the easy way out , then when the user buys a new mobo and the setup that didnt work on z690 now works in z790 on a cheaper mobo is also frustrating. Also in this companies marketing on their mobos says "guaranteed to work" about the QVLs. Please dont assume anything about the users that come here and ask for help, they / i might not explain all the details that have been gone thru before asking questions, for tips on where to start.

Many thanks to the ones that make the guides for OCing processors , mobos , ram and gpus.... We do appreciate it and your time doing it.


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> Some users here believe that just because some people on OCN posts good to very good results, it means that they have magic hardware that just works better then what everyone else have,and they just push a button and everything just works. No matter what results you see posted here , I promise they have been trough all the same struggles as everyone else! Retrain , retrain , retrain, binning of hardware , BSOD’s and so on…. When I go to bed and close my eyes, I see a blue screen with the text “memory management”. Some guys and girls spend days and days retrying over and over to get the results you see and spends days just reading threads for tips and tricks without asking for help. The XMP guys I’m referring to , is guys not interested using more than 2 minutes to get things stable. They don’t even bother reading 2 pages in this thread. They create an account and scream help!!! Just enable XMP and everything works perfect…… In a perfect world that would be the case , but Ddr5 is new. Read about early adopters. There are probably hundreds of photos with every timing and voltage needed for different speeds and IC models in this thread alone. If you just want to play COD, buy DDR4! I feel the Overclocking community is dying. It’s becoming a IT support chat/ Reddit. Thanks 😊


Well damn. I guess you're not wrong. If you don't believe people should ask for help here then I guess I can't really argue against it. By this point, the community should probably get admins involved and sift through what they believe should or should not be on the site, as by this point I don't think there will be true harmony without an intervention. I also did not suggest that you or anyone else has magical hardware, as is why I did not mention the vendor nor make any wild claims regarding binning or review samples etc etc etc. It's not the theme of my comment toward you at all.

I myself have also dealt with a lot of issues and clawed through different hardware combos to finally daily 7000 and 7200. I don't know if perhaps it's a language barrier in terms of dialect, but I tried my best to suggest that I am understanding of your viewpoint and that I value your perspective as well as that of other serious overclockers. In no way is my post meant to be an insult toward you, but rather an elaboration of why you might be seeing what you are. At the end of the day, everyone will have an equal right to voice their opinions and no person should have a more valuable opinion than another. As I said though, it would probably make sense for this to be taken up with higher-ups so that everyone will find a place where they belong. I don't really think what I said warranted this kind of a response, with all due respect.

Perhaps some of the previous things that have been said on the site have affected how my response would come across or be perceived. But yeah, I'm not those people. I just want everyone to get along.


----------



## WebsterRKL

My badass Aquacomputer D5 PWM isolation with 1.5in Sorbothane Hemispheres durometer 30.

Cuz I know you guys like this kinda stuff.

_"The pump house is 'round back Y'all!" _


----------



## cstkl1

affxct said:


> 500% in HCI is around 2.5 hours for D5 and 6 hours for D4. With Karhu, 500% is around 10 mins. A lot individuals regard 1 hour of HCI (+-250% with D5) as stable, some regard 25 mins (+-100% with D5) as stable. If you error at 500-600 it’s definitely late. 500% of HCI even with D5, is longer than most individuals run their RAM stress tests for, apart from those who do overnight testing.


500% d5 is 2.5hrs or less

gonna post now what i normally fo 3 test on one SS.


----------



## Chintz

tps3443 said:


> Well, at DDR5 7600 it’s pretty sensitive


Relatively conservative 7600 timings doing ok for me so far. The 63° in the screen are some spike or something though, stayed close under 60° during the test, but after that mark it gets wacky. Z790 Strix-E. Credits to snakeeyes


----------



## cstkl1

that tfaw like i told him really hurting turnaround


----------



## tps3443

Chintz said:


> Relatively conservative 7600 timings doing ok for me so far. The 63° in the screen are some spike or something though, stayed close under 60° during the test, but after that mark it gets wacky. Credits to snakeeyes
> 
> View attachment 2581113


Thats excellent! but, with a 262K tREFI It’s extremely sensitive to temperature. I discovered this after @acoustic mentioned it.

High tREFI seems to help bandwidth and latency drastically though, and it is stable. So long as my ram stays under 40C ish range, so I’m good with it. I may have to revisit this when the hot summer days come though. Or just waterchill my memory like my CPU, GPU and even M.2 lol. I did not see errors until 44-45C range. And my memory doesn’t exceed 33C with how I have it setup right now. So I’ve got some buffer between stability and non stability.


----------



## cstkl1

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Hello,
> 
> Anybody know what a good value to set "DRAM CLK period" is on an asus motherboard? Cant really find any documentation on this. Ive got a Z690 apex motherboard
> 
> Im still using Hynix M-Die. I have a corsair 6600 CL 32 kit. Im waiting until i can get my hands of a corsair A-Die Kit before upgrading.


its like only me understand this. been telling ppl every year what dram clk is. 

its asus ram preset for a given ram mhz.


----------



## Nizzen

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Hello,
> 
> Anybody know what a good value to set "DRAM CLK period" is on an asus motherboard? Cant really find any documentation on this. Ive got a Z690 apex motherboard
> 
> Im still using Hynix M-Die. I have a corsair 6600 CL 32 kit. Im waiting until i can get my hands of a corsair A-Die Kit before upgrading.


Love from Norway 








What different in Fine Granularity Refresh mode? | bianbao.dev







bianbao.dev








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----------



## opt33

Chintz said:


> Relatively conservative 7600 timings doing ok for me so far. The 63° in the screen are some spike or something though, stayed close under 60° during the test, but after that mark it gets wacky. Z790 Strix-E. Credits to snakeeyes


Thanks for posting tm5 stable shot, one of few Ive seen on z790 4 dimm board/air.

I also had to back off trefi/other settings to avoid higher vdd/vddq and temp issues, despite ram fan. With better bin (lower volts) could run tighter but since my mobo limit is 7400, not worth buying 7600 kit to attempt to run 7400 tighter. Been running below stable for past week, waiting to see how others do before deciding if want to get z790 mobo, also trying to get an idea of my imc capability.

I am assuming you have armory crate installed, otherwise your latency should be lower than mine.


----------



## 673714

TraumatikOC said:


> My z790 hero board is great compared to my z690 extreme, the extreme struggled with 6000 gskill and 6200 TG timings and voltages needed lots of tweaks, now on z790 hero pop in those two kits and new Gskill 7200, set xmp and it just works. And also trying my 2 12900k and 2 12900ks works the same.. Not worth the flashy anime if cant run xmp thats on mobo qvl and also memory qvls.
> Heck , my 1st z690 extreme nuked my 1st kit of TG 6200 , bluescreen then stuck with memory errors in both kits , had to send back mobo and warranty TG.


Sadly, I don't think you ever had a good Z690 Extreme  

What you're describing sounds exactly like my first board, and it had a bad Dimm slot (or more). This replacement acts like a completely different board to be honest, almost like a good Apex or Dark 



Carillo said:


> ...They create an account and scream help!!! ...


Guilty as charged! 

I just wanted to get XMP to work so I could play my games yo!


----------



## J_Lab4645

Carillo said:


> Some users here believe that just because some people on OCN posts good to very good results, it means that they have magic hardware that just works better then what everyone else have,and they just push a button and everything just works. No matter what results you see posted here , I promise they have been trough all the same struggles as everyone else! Retrain , retrain , retrain, binning of hardware , BSOD’s and so on…. When I go to bed and close my eyes, I see a blue screen with the text “memory management”. Some guys and girls spend days and days retrying over and over to get the results you see and spends days just reading threads for tips and tricks without asking for help. The XMP guys I’m referring to , is guys not interested using more than 2 minutes to get things stable. They don’t even bother reading 2 pages in this thread. They create an account and scream help!!! Just enable XMP and everything works perfect…… In a perfect world that would be the case , but Ddr5 is new. Read about early adopters. There are probably hundreds of photos with every timing and voltage needed for different speeds and IC models in this thread alone. If you just want to play COD, buy DDR4! I feel the Overclocking community is dying. It’s becoming a IT support chat/ Reddit. Thanks 😊


It's people like you that make everything happen for the rest of us 'mortals'. You are under-appreciated and overlooked but from your hard work and days/hours of testing; some of us gravitate to this board to learn from you. There are many members here who have the capacity/capability to OC like a genius. Why wouldn't anyone want to learn from the masters!? I for one am grateful for the education from you guys. Thank you!


----------



## Chintz

opt33 said:


> I am assuming you have armory crate installed


no armory crate installed, but i didnt close anything for the screen like logitech software or core temp, dunno if those make a difference as well. asus aura is installed though.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Finaly 7600 on apex z690


----------



## centvalny

Sweet spot settings for my green sticks air


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend posted this stable 8266 cl34 and 8266 cl32 setup~

CPU: 13900K (SP110 - P120, E92)
M/B: Z790 APEX 0088 BIOS
DRAM: Teamgroup XMP 7200 CL34 1.4v



Spoiler: 8266 cl34 stable oc 



VDD 1.74 / VDDQ 1.72 / VPP 1.82 / SA 1.12 / MC 1.456v / TX 1.34v













Spoiler: 8266 cl32 stable oc



VDD 1.79v / VDDQ 1.77v / VDDQ TX 1.33v / SA 1.12v / MC 1.456v


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

What is the max safe daily VDD voltage for Hynix-M Z5's ? ( with a 120mm silent wings 3 on top ) 1.45 or 1.50 ?


----------



## Nizzen

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> What is the max safe daily VDD voltage for Hynix-M Z5's ? ( with a 120mm silent wings 3 on top ) 1.45 or 1.50 ?


If you can cool it enough, under 1.7v is safe enough. For air cooled dimms in a case, 1.55v is maybe max, because higher it's hard to cool.

In my daughters pc' I'm using 1.5v with a fan. 7000c32 m-die. Easy enough to cool for gaming.








Z690 apex, 3090 strix


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Nizzen said:


> If you can cool it enough, under 1.7v is safe enough. For air cooled dimms in a case, 1.55v is maybe max, because higher it's hard to cool.
> 
> In my daughters pc' I'm using 1.5v with a fan. 7000c32 m-die. Easy enough to cool for gaming.


Yeah thanks. TBH I can cool it enough. ( 2000 rpm silent wings 3 in bench, 1500rpm in game) PMIC max temp is 41c in TM5. Games never reach 40c. I plan to put thermistor temp sensor on DRAM with gelid thermalpad. My unify-X have 2 coming from box. I wanna see real DRAM temp. 1.480 both VDD / DQ


----------



## Carillo

8200 c34 tight 400% HCI pass on z790 Apex 0075 BIOS

CPU : 13900KF SP103 with E-cores enabled (delidded) 
DRAM: SK hynix 5600 c40 ( MR green) 
Voltages : SA 1.400v / TX 1.400 / MC 1.400v / VDD 1.66V VDDQ 1.65V
Ram cooling : Supercool water-blocks


----------



## newls1

CPU VDD2 and CPU VDDQ... What is considered to high for these voltages and does this make the cpu run hotter? Im hitting a brick wall trying to gain stabilty @ 7200 (M-Die) and wondering if these voltages would help me. I @ 1.350v for one and 1.405v for the other. Prob just my VDDR as im worried about degrading the mem (even tho they have active cooling) so I dont use more then 1.515v


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> CPU VDD2 and CPU VDDQ... What is considered to high for these voltages and does this make the cpu run hotter? Im hitting a brick wall trying to gain stabilty @ 7200 (M-Die) and wondering if these voltages would help me. I @ 1.350v for one and 1.405v for the other. Prob just my VDDR as im worried about degrading the mem (even tho they have active cooling) so I dont use more then 1.515v


Just try cpu vddq 1.43 and cpu vdd2 1.4 if that passes can back it down, but I have no issue running that for 24/7. If that bump doesnt work than either have to run higher dram vdd/vddq or cut back on trefi/settings as a trial (if loosening settings fixes stability then likely too low dram voltage). But if you can run 7200 mdie fairly tight with 1.51 dram voltage that is much better mdie than mine.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> Just try cpu vddq 1.43 and cpu vdd2 1.4 if that passes can back it down, but I have no issue running that for 24/7. If that bump doesnt work than either have to run higher dram vdd/vddq or cut back on trefi/settings as a trial (if loosening settings fixes stability then likely too low dram voltage). But if you can run 7200 mdie fairly tight with 1.51 dram voltage that is much better mdie than mine.


i cant even get it to post. That was at CL34 too... CL32 7000 all day long no issue at all, but 7200 seems impossible so im looking for ideas


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> i cant even get it to post. That was at CL34 too... CL32 7000 all day long no issue at all, but 7200 seems impossible so im looking for ideas


ok, I thought you were just getting errors. My unifyx wont post 7200 with cpu vddq/vdd2 in increments up to 1.55 and dram vdd/vddq up to 1.65 and very loose primary/secondary settings, only way Im posting 7200 mdie is with another mobo or cpu or both.

A die easier to run higher frequencies, stable 7400c34, but 7600 no post.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> ok, I thought you were just getting errors. My unifyx wont post 7200 with cpu vddq/vdd2 in increments up to 1.55 and dram vdd/vddq up to 1.65 and very loose primary/secondary settings, only way Im posting 7200 mdie is with another mobo or cpu or both.
> 
> A die easier to run higher frequencies, stable 7400c34, but 7600 no post.


ANSWERS THAT!


----------



## Wolverine2349

An update from me after my frustrations with failing XMP RAM stability tests:

With a Core i9 13900K on an Asus Z790-F Strix and then after switching motherboard to Asus Z790 hero wondering if the Strix was not up to the task, these are the results I have gotten with both mobos confirming that DDR5 is difficult to run at XMP with many kits

I had 2 kits of 32GB G.Skill Trident Z5 6400 32-39-39-102 and 7200 34-45-45-115. Both would BSOD or freeze randomly during an OCCT Variable Large Data Set run at XMP 1 and XMP 2 settings. Even tweaking other things they still failed. I had tried reducing the speed of the 7200 to 6400 and 32-39-39-39 timings and would still randomly fail. Then I lowered it to 6200 and it seemed more stable as it finally got through a full 1 hour run of OCCT Large Data Set variable without fail. However a 2nd run, froze up completely at around 30 minutes.

Frustrating after trying so many things and no where to turn, I was close to going back to a DDR4 board to pair with my 13900K.

But one last thing I decided to try Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000MHz CL 36-36-36-76 kit of 32GB. Apparently the G.Skill Trident Z5 are Hynix A and M Die kits and the Corsair is a Samsung kit. Was wondering maybe if my mobo or Hynix based kits are just not as stable at XMP settings or in general and are only better at tweaking and achieving higher frequencies if you have the patience.

So far one full pass at DOCP/XMP1 settings on the Corsair 6000 kit.

On a 2nd run of OCCT Large Data Set Variable test and almost 40 minutes in and no freeze/BSOD nor errors. Hopefully this is the answer.

Perhaps maybe the lower heat spreader underneath the Noctua NH-D15 Fan is better for my setup as well as the Trident Z5 are taller and less room to maneuver the NH-D15 fan.

Or are Asus mobos just better with Samsung than Hynix.

Its strange how now Hynix is supposedly the better RAM with DDR5 where as with DDR4 it was Samsung and Hynix was mediocre or crap. Perhaps Samsung is better for stability at XMP out of the box for both??

Assuming this Corsair Vengeance 6000 continues to pass and I run into no issues.

I am really hoping this is finally it as I certainly did not want to have to settle for less than 6000MHz DDR5 speeds even though even 4800MHz default outperforms good DDR4 mostly except for certain latency sensitive only type tasks. I definitely was hoping for 6400MHz and certainly wanted at least 6000 for DDR5 to be worth it.

SPD Hub Temp averages 53C to 57C under load. It peaks at 63C though whenever it does if it even does it is so fast I cannot even see it when I sit in front of it to babysit it during the test. Are those temps ok. Those were ironically the same temps I was getting with the G.Skill Trident kits. I wonder if Samsung is less sensitive to temps within spec for stability??


----------



## acoustic

Wolverine2349 said:


> An update from me after my frustrations with failing XMP RAM stability tests:
> 
> With a Core i9 13900K on an Asus Z790-F Strix and then after switching motherboard to Asus Z790 hero wondering if the Strix was not up to the task, these are the results I have gotten with both mobos confirming that DDR5 is difficult to run at XMP with many kits
> 
> I had 2 kits of 32GB G.Skill Trident Z5 6400 32-39-39-102 and 7200 34-45-45-115. Both would BSOD or freeze randomly during an OCCT Variable Large Data Set run at XMP 1 and XMP 2 settings. Even tweaking other things they still failed. I had tried reducing the speed of the 7200 to 6400 and 32-39-39-39 timings and would still randomly fail. Then I lowered it to 6200 and it seemed more stable as it finally got through a full 1 hour run of OCCT Large Data Set variable without fail. However a 2nd run, froze up completely at around 30 minutes.
> 
> Frustrating after trying so many things and no where to turn, I was close to going back to a DDR4 board to pair with my 13900K.
> 
> But one last thing I decided to try Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000MHz CL 36-36-36-76 kit of 32GB. Apparently the G.Skill Trident Z5 are Hynix A and M Die kits and the Corsair is a Samsung kit. Was wondering maybe if my mobo or Hynix based kits are just not as stable at XMP settings or in general and are only better at tweaking and achieving higher frequencies if you have the patience.
> 
> So far one full pass at DOCP/XMP1 settings on the Corsair 6000 kit.
> 
> On a 2nd run of OCCT Large Data Set Variable test and almost 40 minutes in and no freeze/BSOD nor errors. Hopefully this is the answer.
> 
> Perhaps maybe the lower heat spreader underneath the Noctua NH-D15 Fan is better for my setup as well as the Trident Z5 are taller and less room to maneuver the NH-D15 fan.
> 
> Or are Asus mobos just better with Samsung than Hynix.
> 
> Its strange how now Hynix is supposedly the better RAM with DDR5 where as with DDR4 it was Samsung and Hynix was mediocre or crap. Perhaps Samsung is better for stability at XMP out of the box for both??
> 
> Assuming this Corsair Vengeance 6000 continues to pass and I run into no issues.
> 
> I am really hoping this is finally it as I certainly did not want to have to settle for less than 6000MHz DDR5 speeds even though even 4800MHz default outperforms good DDR4 mostly except for certain latency sensitive only type tasks. I definitely was hoping for 6400MHz and certainly wanted at least 6000 for DDR5 to be worth it.
> 
> SPD Hub Temp averages 53C to 57C under load. It peaks at 63C though whenever it does if it even does it is so fast I cannot even see it when I sit in front of it to babysit it during the test. Are those temps ok. Those were ironically the same temps I was getting with the G.Skill Trident kits. I wonder if Samsung is less sensitive to temps within spec for stability??


Please tell me I'm reading it wrong and you weren't mismatching kits lol


----------



## Wolverine2349

acoustic said:


> Please tell me I'm reading it wrong and you weren't mismatching kits lol



No never was mismatching kits. I was trying new kits and oh no, BSOD on 3rd OCCT run after the first 2 1 hour runs passed on the Corsair Vengeance kit.


----------



## cstkl1

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> What is the max safe daily VDD voltage for Hynix-M Z5's ? ( with a 120mm silent wings 3 on top ) 1.45 or 1.50 ?


depend on cooling.


----------



## Wolverine2349

Will stability be an issue with temps in mid 50s at XMP settings 6000 to 6400 DDR5 at 1.35 to 1.4V with no active cooling for Samsung or Hynix dies under RAM load or should it not be???

I wonder if temps are part of my problem, though I cannot really do active cooling on RAM as there is no room for permanent mount of fan on RAM with the Noctua NH-D15 on my CPU.


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> Will stability be an issue with temps in mid 50s at XMP settings 6000 to 6400 DDR5 at 1.35 to 1.4V with no active cooling for Samsung or Hynix dies under RAM load or should it not be???
> 
> I wonder if temps are part of my problem, though I cannot really do active cooling on RAM as there is no room for permanent mount of fan on RAM with the Noctua NH-D15 on my CPU.


_googled for an image of NH-D15
came back_
I'd bet real money that air cooler is the problem


----------



## Wolverine2349

LilOliVert said:


> _googled for an image of NH-D15
> came back_
> I'd bet real money that air cooler is the problem



Being sarcastic I assume. When I say temps I am talking about DDR5 RAM temps not CPU temps. Because of the NH-D15, there is almost no room to put a fan over the RAM if that is what it takes for DDR5 RAM stability.


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> Being sarcastic I assume. When I say temps I am talking about DDR5 RAM temps not CPU temps. Because of the NH-D15, there is almost no room to put a fan over the RAM if that is what it takes for DDR5 RAM stability.


Nah, I'm sorry, but I knew you were talking DDR5 temps 

DDR5 is so temp sensitive, that after mine gets above 43 degrees Celsius I become very afraid that anything I'm doing will fail. Anything.

I suspect that CPU cooler (that's almost as big as the entire motherboard) actually has your DDR5 trapped behind it where it's not even able to get enough airflow for proper passive cooling.
If you want stable XMP (or better) you really want active cooling (fan or liquid), or at the very least phenomenal airflow around your components for passive cooling.

I am sorry but the first time I saw air coolers that massive I legit thought it was a joke. I would never use one myself


----------



## Wolverine2349

LilOliVert said:


> Nah, I'm sorry, but I knew you were talking DDR5 temps
> 
> DDR5 is so temp sensitive, that after mine gets above 43 degrees Celsius I become very afraid that anything I'm doing will fail. Anything.
> 
> I suspect that CPU cooler (that's almost as big as the entire motherboard) actually has your DDR5 trapped behind it where it's not even able to get enough airflow for proper passive cooling.
> If you want stable XMP (or better) you really want active cooling (fan or liquid), or at the very least phenomenal airflow around your components for passive cooling.
> 
> I am sorry but the first time I saw air coolers that massive I legit thought it was a joke. I would never use one myself



I am not a fan of liquid cooling, so use a large Noctua cooler. But never knew DDR5 cannot run without being so cool. Is that true of DDR5 of any decent speed it needs to be below 43C or else random stability issues may result even if stability is ok often it could come to bite any minute or it may be ok for another 30 minutes or hour or maybe more or less than boom BSOD or freeze up??

Perhaps my desire to stay on air cooling means I need to stick with 3600 CL14 Samsung B.Die DDR4. Is DDR4 not near as temp sensitive??

And the airflow in my case is pretty good.

I have a Be Quiet Silent Base 802 with 3 front 140mm Silent Wings 3 at 1000 RPM fans running that way all the time and 1 rear 140mm fan at 1000 RPM Front of case is open airflow config and even dust filter removed for good front to back airflow.

Now I have top panel sealed off with the foam cover and of course side panel has foam to dampen noise where there are no fans while having good quiet large 1000 RPM fans in an open mesh front to back config with most else sealed off. And no HDDs nor optical drives and 2 SATA SSDs in cable side of case, so should be more than enough room for good airflow without obstructions.


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> I am not a fan of liquid cooling, so use a large Noctua cooler. But never knew DDR5 cannot run without being so cool. Is that true of DDR5 of any decent speed it needs to be below 43C or else random stability issues may result even if stability is ok often it could come to bite any minute or it may be ok for another 30 minutes or hour or maybe more or less than boom BSOD or freeze up??
> 
> Perhaps my desire to stay on air cooling means I need to stick with 3600 CL14 Samsung B.Die DDR4. Is DDR4 not near as temp sensitive??
> 
> And the airflow in my case is pretty good.
> 
> I have a Be Quiet Silent Base 802 with 3 front 140mm Silent Wings 3 at 1000 RPM fans running that way all the time and 1 rear 140mm fan at 1000 RPM Front of case is open airflow config and even dust filter removed for good front to back airflow.
> 
> Now I have top panel sealed off with the foam cover and of course side panel has foam to dampen noise where there are no fans while having good quiet large 1000 RPM fans in an open mesh front to back config with most else sealed off. And no HDDs nor optical drives and 2 SATA SSDs in cable side of case, so should be more than enough room for good airflow without obstructions.


I mean, the highest temperature I've seen my DDR5 hit and still pass a test is 47 c 

Edit: FYI It's running 6600MHz while passive cooled, but I have an EK AIO for my CPU, so that gives plenty of space around it


----------



## morph.

mine stability tests fine up to around the 55-degree mark... Haven't seen issues at the 43s...


----------



## Wolverine2349

LilOliVert said:


> I mean, the highest temperature I've seen my DDR5 hit and still pass a test is 47 c



Does it fail instantly at anything higher??


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

cstkl1 said:


> depend on cooling.


Already wrote what i have. So on Air with a fan


----------



## mattxx88

do you know if these HMCG78AGBUA081N have locked pmic for overvolt?


----------



## cstkl1

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> Already wrote what i have. So on Air with a fan


i never actually even been on ddr5 on air until last month. even during ES kit i went straight water. 

Air is terrible. its harder to diagnose the cause of instability.


----------



## sugi0lover

mattxx88 said:


> do you know if these HMCG78AGBUA081N have locked pmic for overvolt?


The last 81 is unlocked. 84 is locked.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

cstkl1 said:


> i never actually even been on ddr5 on air until last month. even during ES kit i went straight water.
> 
> Air is terrible. its harder to diagnose the cause of instability.


Asking again maybe i didnt express myself correctly, what would be safe daily long term voltage limit for Hynix M on Air ( which never broke 42c++ ) 1.55v or 1.50v ?


----------



## cstkl1

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> Asking again maybe i didnt express myself correctly, what would be safe daily long term voltage limit for Hynix M on Air ( which never broke 42c++ ) 1.55v or 1.50v ?


the ram bsod if hot
pmic has a temp that will bsod

so.. again depends on your cooling
i run 1.65-1.7v 24/7 for months


----------



## sugi0lover

8400 CL34 oc setup (not my result)
VDD 1.78v / VDDQ 1.75v / TX 1.5v / Mc 1.45v / SA 1.15v


Spoiler: 8400 CL34


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> An update from me after my frustrations with failing XMP RAM stability tests:
> Perhaps maybe the lower heat spreader underneath the Noctua NH-D15 Fan is better for my setup as well as the Trident Z5 are taller and less room to maneuver the NH-D15 fan.


commenting for first time because of the D15 LOL!
i had one many years ago so i understand but as soon as i read your comment i was like ohhhhhhhh....
it does sound like your ram kits are not getting enough air flow. i had to learn that the hard way myself
and I'm on a external water loop direct die with a ton of phanteks t30 fans lol!
I've had the Samsung, M die and now A die Hynix.
i would like to learn how to water cool my gskill 7200 kit.


----------



## Wolverine2349

rs199208 said:


> commenting for first time because of the D15 LOL!
> i had one many years ago so i understand but as soon as i read your comment i was like ohhhhhhhh....
> it does sound like your ram kits are not getting enough air flow. i had to learn that the hard way myself
> and I'm on a external water loop direct die with a ton of phanteks t30 fans lol!
> I've had the Samsung, M die and now A die Hynix.
> i would like to learn how to water cool my gskill 7200 kit.



Is it a DDR5 problem or any RAM problem. Cause I refuse to do any water cooling!!

I have only had problems thus far with DDR5 not even CL14 3600 Samsung B.Die DDR4 at XMP behind the NH-D15.


----------



## don1376

opt33 said:


> ok, I thought you were just getting errors. My unifyx wont post 7200 with cpu vddq/vdd2 in increments up to 1.55 and dram vdd/vddq up to 1.65 and very loose primary/secondary settings, only way Im posting 7200 mdie is with another mobo or cpu or both.
> 
> A die easier to run higher frequencies, stable 7400c34, but 7600 no post.


I can post and daily stable 7200c32 m-die on unify x








Don't have newer screenshot but lowered RDRD and WRWR TO 15. Also changed tREFI to 120***. Can't recall exact number. And tRAS to 30. Scores even better.


----------



## QXE

sugi0lover said:


> 8400 CL32 oc setup (not my result)
> VDD 1.78v / VDDQ 1.75v / TX 1.5v / Mc 1.45v / SA 1.15v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 8400 CL34
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581434


Where is that version of MemTweakIt available?


----------



## bianbao.dev

QXE said:


> Where is that version of MemTweakIt available?











ASUS MemTweakIt 20221101 Ver. | bianbao.dev







bianbao.dev


----------



## Wolverine2349

I am at a tipping point and near ready to go back to DDR4 with my DDR5 frustrations. Though I really want 6400 CL32 or faster to work as per Gamers Nexus it does provide a gaming boost in CPU limited situations.

Is the bottom line that to get DDR5 at 6000MHZ or faster Samsung or Hynix kit fully stable, is active cooling needed or at least extremely high case airflow so temps never exceed 40-45C something on SPD Hub in HWInfo64?? Or is that not necessarily true??

Would it be worth purchasing a 2 DIMM board like the MSI Z690 Unify X and could that help a lot.

Or is it a lost cause if I insist on using a Noctua NH-D15 cooler with 2 140mm fans to cool my CPU which makes space much more limited near RAM and maybe restricts airflow and just better off going back to a good DR4 Samsung B.Die 3600 CL14 kit.

Or is it too hard to say??


----------



## robalm

Man i thought buildzoid was exaggerating as usual regarding stable ram and which after reboot becomes unstable.
Nut noticed this today.
5 days stable now pissing error.
Are there more people than me who have noticed this?


----------



## cstkl1

so big diff c32 vs c34.. 0.12v diff.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2581457
> 
> 
> so big diff c32 vs c34.. 0.12v diff.


Looks nice!


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2581457
> 
> 
> so big diff c32 vs c34.. 0.12v diff.


when you share nothing but primary timings and speed , it’s hard to understand what you actually are testing.. 👍


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> when you share nothing but primary timings and speed , it’s hard to understand what you actually are testing.. 👍


scaling. voltage. mhz. understanding adie
simple thing ppl cant even seem to answer cause everybody chasing mhz.. etc

timing .. it all depends on your rams. i dont see any point posting it cause timing is all about cooling etc. 

simple question right now, whats a good bin adie? whats a golden bin adie? whats the mhz scaling?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Looks nice!


i am still trying to understand adie.


----------



## opt33

don1376 said:


> I can post and daily stable 7200c32 m-die on unify x
> Don't have newer screenshot but lowered RDRD and WRWR TO 15. Also changed tREFI to 120***. Can't recall exact number. And tRAS to 30. Scores even better.


yeah, some unify-x/cpu imc combos can run 7200 or higher on mdie and 7800+ on A die, some cant. my unifyx/cpu/imc combo tops out at 7000 MDIE and 7400 Adie, just typical variation in motherboard and/or IMC capability. 

And not surprisingly, your 7200 mdie works with reasonable voltages/tight settings, which is typical... ie if it is going to post it is usually effortless with scaled voltages/loose settings, then tighter from there. If scaled voltages/loose settings dont post, instead of beating a dead horse, you need to find and replace the limiting factor, whether that is cpu/imc, mobo or ram.


----------



## KingUniverse

Anybody a bit more versed in DDR5 able to help get these sticks stable on my 13900K?
I bought this kit and crossed my fingers:

F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QS2K59B

Even at stock settings, with XMP enabled, I'm able to boot, but fail shortly after starting an AIDA stability test with CPU/FPU/CACHE/MEM checked.
With XMP disabled, I'm able to run an AIDA64 test all day (Stock 4800MT/s)

My MOBO is the Gigabyte Aorus Z690 Ultra

I have tried lightly boosting the VCCSA but figured I would ask here before I go pushing numbers too high. I am aware that there is a VDDQ CPU and VDDQ2 which (correct me if I'm wrong) are the memory controller voltages for the CPU and DDR5 "on die" controller, correct? Any setting I can enable or voltages I can increase to try and get this kit stable? Thanks in advance!


----------



## cstkl1

c34 higher write
same read/copy
latency slightly higher 0.6ns
voltage 0.12v diff.. 1.53 vs 1.65
trfc c34 468, c32 is 452

also karhu c34 430mb/s c32 is 429mb/s

c34 the way to go atleast on 8200


----------



## Carillo

8400 c38 on AIR! Testing my friend @SuperMumrik 's 6600 G.skill A-die on air on the new 0095 bios! 47 degree peek temp


CPU : 13900KF SP103 with E-cores enabled (delidded)
DRAM:6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS
Voltages : SA 1.400v / TX 1.400 / MC 1.400v / VDD 1.53V VDDQ 1.53V
Ram cooling : AIR
Motherboard : Z790 APEX


----------



## chibi

Fellas, I'm looking at the Bitspower DDR5 kit or Bartxstore.

Bitspower:








Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided)


Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) The RAM covers only fit for single-sided DDR5.




www.performance-pcs.com





Bartxstore:


https://bartxstore.com/shop/ram-water-block-bx2/










Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com





The thing with the Bartx is that it's direct contact on the memory IC. Bitspower uses thermalpad for the IC. Might be better pressure with the thermal pad contact. In the past I've found that direct contact with memory IC can be hit or miss depending on the soldering tolerance of the PCB.

Another vendor I looked into is the Supercool one, but no stock. Between the Bitspower and Bartx, which would you guys lean towards?


----------



## centvalny

Otw to 8600 air with bios 0095


----------



## Nizzen

chibi said:


> Fellas, I'm looking at the Bitspower DDR5 kit or Bartxstore.
> 
> Bitspower:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided)
> 
> 
> Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) The RAM covers only fit for single-sided DDR5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performance-pcs.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bartxstore:
> 
> 
> https://bartxstore.com/shop/ram-water-block-bx2/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore
> 
> 
> Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bartxstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing with the Bartx is that it's direct contact on the memory IC. Bitspower uses thermalpad for the IC. Might be better pressure with the thermal pad contact. In the past I've found that direct contact with memory IC can be hit or miss depending on the soldering tolerance of the PCB.
> 
> Another vendor I looked into is the Supercool one, but no stock. Between the Bitspower and Bartx, which would you guys lean towards?


Supercool computer 😁

I have Bitspower and Supercool. Both do their job with ddr5


----------



## chibi

Nizzen said:


> Supercool computer 😁
> 
> I have Bitspower and Supercool. Both do their job with ddr5


I tried messaging that Supercool guy 3 times over 1 year. No reply at all for anything. His product may be good, but lack of inventory for my needs and no response makes me hesitant to support his cause.


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Supercool computer 😁
> 
> I have Bitspower and Supercool. Both do their job with ddr5


Yea i have too Bitspower, what kind of temps you get?


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> Yea i have too Bitspower, what kind of temps you get?


+1 delta on supercool, +4 delta on Bitspower.


----------



## rs199208

chibi said:


> I tried messaging that Supercool guy 3 times over 1 year. No reply at all for anything. His product may be good, but lack of inventory for my needs and no response makes me hesitant to support his cause.


i was in contact with him through FB messy while i was purchasing the 12th gen direct die and after installation. I'm interested in the DDR5 block too, so I'll try to contact him.
last time we spoke he was having issues filling the orders by himself.


----------



## Carillo

rs199208 said:


> i was in contact with him through FB messy while i was purchasing the 12th gen direct die and after installation. I'm interested in the DDR5 block too, so I'll try to contact him.
> last time we spoke he was having issues filling the orders by himself.


Waiting for DC13 to be ready, but he hasn’t responded to me either the last weeks.


----------



## acoustic

I emailed the SuperCool guy twice and never got a response. I think the guy is just drowning in orders.. that's why everything is OOS on the site. I was trying to find out when the replacements were coming in stock..

Ended up going IceManCooler instead because BARTX store was OOS too. Frustrating to say the least, but the IceManCooler heatsinks are built very well.


----------



## Nizzen

Pretty crazy that ONE person can make the best watercooling products in the world for CPU and Memory! No wonder he is drowning in orders.

Amazing products!


----------



## rs199208

opt33 said:


> yeah, some unify-x/cpu imc combos can run 7200 or higher on mdie and 7800+ on A die, some cant. my unifyx/cpu/imc combo tops out at 7000 MDIE and 7400 Adie, just typical variation in motherboard and/or IMC capability.
> 
> And not surprisingly, your 7200 mdie works with reasonable voltages/tight settings, which is typical... ie if it is going to post it is usually effortless with scaled voltages/loose settings, then tighter from there. If scaled voltages/loose settings dont post, instead of beating a dead horse, you need to find and replace the limiting factor, whether that is cpu/imc, mobo or ram.


i now regret selling my gskill 6400 M die kit, a 6600 gskill kit replaced it. i only recently really got focused on OC and tightening my DDR5 so had a learning curve. 6600 wouldn't post much past 7000 on Unify X, could of been my fault or possibly a bad kit. 
just picked up the 7200 A die gskill kit from Microcenter last night (sunday).
7200 XMP posted easily, then i tightened it down to 45ns in MLC. 
afterwards i set a new new bios profile then experimented with higher frequencies booting into 7400, 7600, 7800 using stock XMP settings but added voltages.
7800 seemed difficult for my MB at first but it booted. so i attempted to tighten down 7600 but couldn't get stable, again prob my fault and or too much heat on dimms idk yet.
7200 is setting at 1.5V linked dimm voltage because I'm afraid of tweaking anything else lol!. 
I've yet to do any stability tests but i am typing on this rig right now with 7200 active.


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> ..Cause I refuse to do any water cooling!!..


I have to wonder why?
An amazing AIO can be had for close to or sometimes cheaper than air coolers when they're on sale.
They're quiet.
They keep things cooler.


----------



## rs199208

LilOliVert said:


> I have to wonder why?
> An amazing AIO can be had for close to or sometimes cheaper than air coolers when they're on sale.
> They're quiet.
> They keep things cooler.


yeah, i originally ran stock then delidded using a open box 360 Galahad $120. i added 3 more fans for push\pull lol! it worked great for what it was!
i personally know a old friend who installed a noctua D15 or one of the new alt versions onto a 12700k because like me he is old school from AMD Athlon OC days. he can't run a benchmark very long because the heat just accumulates since air coolers can't get rid of the heat fast enough.


----------



## cstkl1

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2581457
> 
> 
> so big diff c32 vs c34.. 0.12v diff.


this is using supercool btw


----------



## cstkl1

supercool ddr5


----------



## chibi

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2581541
> View attachment 2581543
> View attachment 2581542
> View attachment 2581544
> 
> 
> supercool ddr5


Is that one the full copper or standard kit?


----------



## rs199208

KingUniverse said:


> Anybody a bit more versed in DDR5 able to help get these sticks stable on my 13900K?
> I bought this kit and crossed my fingers:
> 
> F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QS2K59B
> 
> Even at stock settings, with XMP enabled, I'm able to boot, but fail shortly after starting an AIDA stability test with CPU/FPU/CACHE/MEM checked.
> With XMP disabled, I'm able to run an AIDA64 test all day (Stock 4800MT/s)
> 
> My MOBO is the Gigabyte Aorus Z690 Ultra
> 
> I have tried lightly boosting the VCCSA but figured I would ask here before I go pushing numbers too high. I am aware that there is a VDDQ CPU and VDDQ2 which (correct me if I'm wrong) are the memory controller voltages for the CPU and DDR5 "on die" controller, correct? Any setting I can enable or voltages I can increase to try and get this kit stable? Thanks in advance!


I had that gskill kit and a gigabyte aorus master. 
Gigabyte z690 had ddr5 issues idk if all were fixed through bios updates alone. 
My Samsung module gskill kit was horrible on that mb. 
The 6400 M hynix kit ran much better but I don't recall if I had to run different settings. I may of increased Voltages and possibly wrongly increased VCCSA too much in retrospect lol! 
Part of the problem is the gigabyte pcb etc. 
I would suggest trying to increase your cpu memory controller and dimm Voltages. You may have to increase SA a little on that mb idk for sure. 
In order to properly diagnose the issues you will need to make sure the ram are getting plenty of cool airflow as they are super sensitive to heat especially as you increase Voltages.


----------



## Wolverine2349

rs199208 said:


> I had that gskill kit and a gigabyte aorus master.
> Gigabyte z690 had ddr5 issues idk if all were fixed through bios updates alone.
> My Samsung module gskill kit was horrible on that mb.
> The 6400 M hynix kit ran much better but I don't recall if I had to run different settings. I may of increased Voltages and possibly wrongly increased VCCSA too much in retrospect lol!
> Part of the problem is the gigabyte pcb etc.
> I would suggest trying to increase your cpu memory controller and dimm Voltages. You may have to increase SA a little on that mb idk for sure.
> In order to properly diagnose the issues you will need to make sure the ram are getting plenty of cool airflow as they are super sensitive to heat especially as you increase Voltages.



Is that true of all DDR5 RAM or just some dies??


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> Is that true of all DDR5 RAM or just some dies??


Not sure what you are specifically asking? 

This is my unify x rig idling with A die 7200 on air OC to 7800 using its XMP but with multiple voltages adjustments upward. It's really a pain continuously rebooting lol! changing just one setting will result in many different systems being effected thus causing any number of unintended consequences.


----------



## db000

chibi said:


> Fellas, I'm looking at the Bitspower DDR5 kit or Bartxstore.
> 
> Bitspower:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided)
> 
> 
> Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) The RAM covers only fit for single-sided DDR5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performance-pcs.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bartxstore:
> 
> 
> https://bartxstore.com/shop/ram-water-block-bx2/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore
> 
> 
> Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bartxstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing with the Bartx is that it's direct contact on the memory IC. Bitspower uses thermalpad for the IC. Might be better pressure with the thermal pad contact. In the past I've found that direct contact with memory IC can be hit or miss depending on the soldering tolerance of the PCB.
> 
> Another vendor I looked into is the Supercool one, but no stock. Between the Bitspower and Bartx, which would you guys lean towards?


Bartx 2DIMM Copper block and 2DIMM Copper heatsinks.


----------



## QXE

Finally got a result on this POS board


----------



## acoustic

QXE said:


> Finally got a result on this POS board
> View attachment 2581553


Voltages? Nice job.


----------



## cstkl1

chibi said:


> Is that one the full copper or standard kit?


full copper nickel coated


----------



## 673714

rs199208 said:


> ...In order to properly diagnose the issues you will need to make sure the ram are getting plenty of cool airflow as they are super sensitive to heat especially as you increase Voltages.





Wolverine2349 said:


> Is that true of all DDR5 RAM or just some dies??





rs199208 said:


> Not sure what you are specifically asking?...


It seems like a troll move. They keep asking if DDR5 is sensitive to heat (or acting oblivious to it)


----------



## tibcsi0407

My 13900k died and while it's under RMA I installed my "old" 12900k CPU to my new Z790 HERO.
I could tighten the timings here and there, but I will get the replacement 13900k this week, so I don't want to invest too much time to this config. Maybe I will try the 7000 speeds and see what happens.


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> Is that true of all DDR5 RAM or just some dies??


I would assume all DDR5 has this fault because of the controller. 

Experimenting with 7600 and 7800 at this moment I may of figured out what was keeping me from enough stability to run tests. The AC/DC LLc keeps reverting back to auto MB settings which for some reason run 1/1. 
So I set AC to 80 which the MB usually does automatically anyway in regular circumstances i thought..
DC to 65 because of my manual vdroop llc mode 5 setting. 
That one change is keeping my rig running at 7600 so far, I'll now try at 7800. 
I know it will go to auto after a manual voltage change but i meant the MB in some circumstances wants to run way too efficient when i actually do want more power to keep a load stable. 
I had weird AC/DC issues with the aorus master too if I remember correctly.


----------



## rs199208

LilOliVert said:


> It seems like a troll move. They keep asking if DDR5 is sensitive to heat (or acting oblivious to it)


Lmmo!


----------



## QXE

acoustic said:


> Voltages? Nice job.


Too high. I got a different config loaded with more optimized DRAM voltages but higher imc voltages running HCI rn that also passes YC 2.5B


----------



## centvalny

8600+c34 ram air


----------



## tibcsi0407

centvalny said:


> 8600+c34 ram air
> View attachment 2581558
> 
> View attachment 2581559


Did you run stability test?
I see a lot of nice OC's, but most of them has no stability test attached. I thought this is the 24/7 stable thread.


----------



## sugi0lover

just saw A-die 2 rank (32 x 2) is on sale in Japan.
The price below is for 2 sticks.


----------



## sugi0lover

Some info I have seen so far for the 13th gen~

Max stable OC (all different system/person based) : updated

8000 CL34 : one person with Z790i Edge, one person with Z790 Extreme
8266 CL32 : one person with Z790 Apex
8400 CL34 : three persons with Z790 Apex

Regardless of the board makers, I have been trying to share all 8000+ oc infos which have details to refer. I will share more when I see them.


----------



## Ketku-

@sugi0lover Is there any information yet on the difference between Overclocking Z690 Apex + 13900K vs Z790 Apex + 13900K overall?


----------



## sulalin

DDR8428 36-47-47-84 1.5v/1.5v
memtest pro 7.0 210% pass
#ROGm15A


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> @sugi0lover Is there any information yet on the difference between Overclocking Z690 Apex + 13900K vs Z790 Apex + 13900K overall?


Some of my friends with 13900K couldn't get Z790 Apex for a while, so they used Z690 Apex for a while. and I see them struggling with stable 8000 and now they are doing stable 8266/8400.
But this new bios 0095 for Z790 Apex made it possible for them. I love this new 0095 bios.
Plz don't generalize the above cases since samples are too small.


----------



## Ketku-

sugi0lover said:


> Some of my friends with 13900K couldn't get Z790 Apex for a while, so they used Z690 Apex for a while. and I see them struggling with stable 8000 and now they are doing stable 8266/8400.
> But this new bios 0095 for Z790 Apex made it possible for them. I love this new 0095 bios.
> Plz don't generalize the above cases since samples are too small.


So do you think that such a basic gamer/overclocking user like me, would get good results with the Z690 Apex or do they need the Z790 Apex?

Can you tell what is actually between these two motherboards?


----------



## mattxx88

sugi0lover said:


> The last 81 is unlocked. 84 is locked.


some babyes incoming


----------



## asdkj1740

it is not fair....why there is no aio for ram..............................
ram is the only stuff i would like to try custom water cooling, thanks to gskill.


----------



## rs199208

sugi0lover said:


> Some of my friends with 13900K couldn't get Z790 Apex for a while, so they used Z690 Apex for a while. and I see them struggling with stable 8000 and now they are doing stable 8266/8400.
> But this new bios 0095 for Z790 Apex made it possible for them. I love this new 0095 bios.
> Plz don't generalize the above cases since samples are too small.


I'm waiting for Z790 EVGA Dark Kingpin before I make a decision on getting a Z790. Think it will OC DDR5 better than Z790 Apex?


----------



## energie80

Has anyone tested Corsair 7200?


----------



## rs199208

Ordered the Bitspower 2 dimm block from PPCS since it's in stock there. Now I need to learn how to safely pull apart one of my gskill kits. I guess should experiment on the older 6600 kit first.


----------



## asdkj1740

https://www.hkepc.com/21230/%E8%A6%AA%E7%94%9F%E4%BB%94__%E5%A5%BD%E5%BE%88%E5%A5%BD%E8%B6%85_...._KLEVV_CRAS_XR5_RGB_D5-6000_32GB_KIT?fbclid=IwAR0BYS1CXY1u0RNlITbkjjO4rOVsjYTU_a8KZ3YltiOb02jcXii2ScbMFNg


so hynix m die on z790 apex with 13900k can do up to 7600c44 at 1.5v only and get runmemtestpro passed (at least 100% i guess)
the benchmark is super great as if they have tightened the timings.

D5-7600 CL44-52-52-112117.91114.47112.22
but at the same time the latency of the same settings is >60ns.

D5-7600 CL44-52-52-11262.4


每一組記憶體設定必要經過 RunMemTest Pro* 測試檢定才能當測試成功。
Each set of memory settings must be verified by the RunMemTest Pro* test before the test is successful


the stick uses 224a and 219a at the same time.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Nizzen said:


> Love from Norway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What different in Fine Granularity Refresh mode? | bianbao.dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bianbao.dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 00212267423700635067846500105786718002223004337336451008565331067900210002324004438006552008666001078000310672425004538676653008766671088100411002525334639006753338867001098133512002626004740006854008968001108200613002726674841006954679069001118267713332827004941337055009169331128400814002928005042007156009270009146730290051426772570093706710150031293352430073573394710011160032300053440074580095720012170033306754450075586796730013173334310055453376590097733314180035320056460077600098740015186736330057466778610099746716190037333358470079613310075001720003834005948008062001017600182100393467604900816267102770019213340350061493382630010377332022004136006250008364001047800


Much love indeed, thank you good sir/ma'am.I appreciate it

Keep fighting the good fight


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

rs199208 said:


> Ordered the Bitspower 2 dimm block from PPCS since it's in stock there. Now I need to learn how to safely pull apart one of my gskill kits. I guess should experiment on the older 6600 kit first.


Please let us know how it goes! Im very curious how the G.Skill kits come apart as well. Not sure if i'll be able to wait for a Corsair A-Die kit to come in stock. 

I wish G.Skill would at least use thermal pads on their ram modules instead of just using glue. Their thermals are absolutely awful, my Corsair M-Die kit's idle temps are like 13° lower than my G.Skill M-Die kit at the same voltages and frequency. Difference in temps becomes even more pronounced under load


----------



## Wolverine2349

Just ordered an MSI Z690 Unify X and Corsair Vengeance 32GB (2 X 16GB) DDR5 6600 32-39-39-76 CMK32GX5M2X6600C32 kit.

I am hoping this will finally work and be fully stable with my 13900K at XMP settings for that RAM which is low profile for best clearance form NH-D15 and Hynix M bin and not overall fast and on MSI support list for Z690 Unify X. I hope this RAM runs well without needing active cooling. If not I will return them both and it is officially back to DDR4 for me.


----------



## energie80

Good choice


----------



## don1376

rs199208 said:


> Ordered the Bitspower 2 dimm block from PPCS since it's in stock there. Now I need to learn how to safely pull apart one of my gskill kits. I guess should experiment on the older 6600 kit first.


Just soak the sticks in acetone or scent free finger polish remover for 20—30 mins. Won't hurt them at all and heat spreaders will almost fall off.


----------



## chibi

db000 said:


> Bartx 2DIMM Copper block and 2DIMM Copper heatsinks.


You used thermal pads on both sides of the PBC? I thought Bartx instructions were to use thermal paste of the memory chips and only pad on the pmic?


----------



## warbucks

tps3443 said:


> Honestly, I think they are the same thing. Newegg is just profiting like $20 or $30 extra dollars off those 7600 vs 7200’s for a slightly faster XMP profile. I’ve got my Team Group 7200’s at 7600C34 100% stable.


They are the same thing the only difference are the primary timings are loosened a bit at 7600. I have the 7200 kit and can run 7600 at the same timings as the 7600 kit.


----------



## bastian

energie80 said:


> Has anyone tested Corsair 7200?


I just got a 7000 kit today:


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> 8400 c38 on AIR! Testing my friend @SuperMumrik 's 6600 G.skill A-die on air on the new 0095 bios! 47 degree peek temp
> 
> 
> CPU : 13900KF SP103 with E-cores enabled (delidded)
> DRAM:6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS
> Voltages : SA 1.400v / TX 1.400 / MC 1.400v / VDD 1.53V VDDQ 1.53V
> Ram cooling : AIR
> Motherboard : Z790 APEX
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581642
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581482


I just saw i had uploaded the wrong photo! I uploaded the 8200 photo instead of the 8400. Updated it now. Sorry.


----------



## rulik006

bastian said:


> I just got a 7000 kit today:
> 
> View attachment 2581644


new Corsair codes pretty logical now
last digits indicate the ordinal number of the letter 
5.43.*13* M-die
5.43.*01* A-die


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> Just ordered an MSI Z690 Unify X and Corsair Vengeance 32GB (2 X 16GB) DDR5 6600 32-39-39-76 CMK32GX5M2X6600C32 kit.
> 
> I am hoping this will finally work and be fully stable with my 13900K at XMP settings for that RAM which is low profile for best clearance form NH-D15 and Hynix M bin and not overall fast and on MSI support list for Z690 Unify X. I hope this RAM runs well without needing active cooling. If not I will return them both and it is officially back to DDR4 for me.


Have fun wasting your time, clinging to some massive, obsolete cooling tech, that just spills hot air all over the inside of your case and keeps it trapped there


----------



## Wolverine2349

LilOliVert said:


> Have fun wasting your time, clinging to some massive, obsolete cooling tech, that just spills hot air all over the inside of your case and keeps it trapped there



Yeah like we should have to use AIOs and risk liquid leaking and frying and shorting every component.

Advancement should bring PC components so they can be air cooled nd not need liquid cooling unless you are pushing OC records.

I hate liquid cooling and I am not changing. I am who I am and the NH-D15 is still super popular and hardly outdated!!


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> Yeah like we should have to use AIOs and risk liquid leaking and frying and shorting every component.
> 
> Advancement should bring PC components so they can be air cooled nd not need liquid cooling unless you are pushing OC records.
> 
> I hate liquid cooling and I am not changing. I am who I am and the NH-D15 is still super popular and hardly outdated!!


So here is a perfect example of what I learned in college when I was studying to become a Systems Administrator. When I asked my professor why I needed to take interpersonal communications and psychology courses in order to graduate. The answer was "because humans tend to be the weakest link" 

If you worked for me, I suspect I'd have to fire you.


----------



## GGiuliano93

Wolverine2349 said:


> Yeah like we should have to use AIOs and risk liquid leaking and frying and shorting every component.
> 
> Advancement should bring PC components so they can be air cooled nd not need liquid cooling unless you are pushing OC records.
> 
> I hate liquid cooling and I am not changing. I am who I am and the NH-D15 is still super popular and hardly outdated!!


Probably 0.0001% risk to use aio but whatever, i had nh-d15 and bought a liquid freezer ii 420mm. If ur paranoid use what you want.


----------



## grilli4nt

Just got my g.skill ddr5-7200 A die, running stable at default XMP2 timings with my z790 strix-f and 13900k. Anyone with same kits who has some ideas on tighter timings? Havent tried increase frequency or anything yet.


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> Yeah like we should have to use AIOs and risk liquid leaking and frying and shorting every component.
> 
> Advancement should bring PC components so they can be air cooled nd not need liquid cooling unless you are pushing OC records.
> 
> I hate liquid cooling and I am not changing. I am who I am and the NH-D15 is still super popular and hardly outdated!!


The D15 is outdated and not the best performing anymore even between other air coolers. Yes, I know can update the fans as I also did myself.


fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Please let us know how it goes! Im very curious how the G.Skill kits come apart as well. Not sure if i'll be able to wait for a Corsair A-Die kit to come in stock.
> 
> I wish G.Skill would at least use thermal pads on their ram modules instead of just using glue. Their thermals are absolutely awful, my Corsair M-Die kit's idle temps are like 13° lower than my G.Skill M-Die kit at the same voltages and frequency. Difference in temps becomes even more pronounced under load


Came apart super easy with only a couple minutes or less using a hairdryer to heat them up. I used a thin plastic putty knife to spread them apart.


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> Just ordered an MSI Z690 Unify X and Corsair Vengeance 32GB (2 X 16GB) DDR5 6600 32-39-39-76 CMK32GX5M2X6600C32 kit.
> 
> I am hoping this will finally work and be fully stable with my 13900K at XMP settings for that RAM which is low profile for best clearance form NH-D15 and Hynix M bin and not overall fast and on MSI support list for Z690 Unify X. I hope this RAM runs well without needing active cooling. If not I will return them both and it is officially back to DDR4 for me.


Great choice for MB which is arguably the best Z690 option in my opinion.


----------



## opt33

Wolverine2349 said:


> Just ordered an MSI Z690 Unify X and Corsair Vengeance 32GB (2 X 16GB) DDR5 6600 32-39-39-76 CMK32GX5M2X6600C32 kit.
> 
> I am hoping this will finally work and be fully stable with my 13900K at XMP settings for that RAM which is low profile for best clearance form NH-D15 and Hynix M bin and not overall fast and on MSI support list for Z690 Unify X. I hope this RAM runs well without needing active cooling. If not I will return them both and it is officially back to DDR4 for me.


I have corsair 6400 and gskill 6600 kits, both will run xmp stable without active ram cooling at default xmp voltages. My gskills are at 60C with karhu/tm5 without error at default xmp, fan drops temps 9-10C, the corair you bought likely run cooler than that. At higher voltage with tighter second/tertiary ram fan is more important. 

I havent ever air cooled cpu or gpu but doubt my 800 rpm fans on radiator move more air than your air cooling setup and Im dumping my expelled rad air on ram (on purpose).


----------



## Wolverine2349

> The D15 is outdated and not the best performing anymore even between other air coolers. Yes, I know can update the fans as I also did myself.


What air coolers are better that can have fans running 1000 RPM and be quiet and drop temps 3C or more form NH-D15 in same dual 140mm fan config?? I am interested as I may look into such a cooler.


----------



## Carillo

Hey guys. What testmem5 version and Cfg file do you use ? I found a 0.12 version in my archive with a lot of config files. Please point me in the right direction ( version and file)


----------



## opt33

.12 version tm5 with anta777 "extreme1" cfg or "absolute" cfg. absolute is anta 777 newer version post 18,581 below link









*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


My new config for tm5 - absolut. http://bit.ly/3D9TUnD




www.overclock.net


----------



## Carillo

opt33 said:


> .12 version tm5 with anta777 "extreme1" cfg or "absolute" cfg. absolute is anta 777 newer version post 18,581 below link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread
> 
> 
> My new config for tm5 - absolut. http://bit.ly/3D9TUnD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


thanks


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> What air coolers are better that can have fans running 1000 RPM and be quiet and drop temps 3C or more form NH-D15 in same dual 140mm fan config?? I am interested as I may look into such a cooler.


if continuing with the same form factor DeepCool Assassin III.
i do hope the UniX fixes your DDR5 stability issues no matter which very large air cooler you use. maybe it is the case itself that is hindering flow IDK.
edit: i have no idea about noise but can use which ever fans you want to find best levels.


----------



## jeiselramos

Everything on air so can't push anymore
6800c32 2T
1.45 vdd/vddq
Sa offset (0.894)
CPU VDDQ TX 1.45
MC 1.2875









Didn't run kharu 10000% because I ran that when CPU was stock 🤣


----------



## Wolverine2349

rs199208 said:


> if continuing with the same form factor DeepCool Assassin III.
> i do hope the UniX fixes your DDR5 stability issues no matter which very large air cooler you use. maybe it is the case itself that is hindering flow IDK.
> edit: i have no idea about noise but can use which ever fans you want to find best levels.



What do you mean by same form factor and continuing to use it?? The form factor is ATX for motherboards.

The case I am using is a Be Quit Silent Base 802 with the mesh front with dust filter removed and sealed top. 3 140mm intake fans and 1 140mm rear exhaust fan.


----------



## 673714

rs199208 said:


> ...no matter which very large air cooler you use ...


Edit: Never mind I can't say it better 
This was my whole point about air coolers. I'd honestly love to see them all become so totally obsolete, that no manufacturer would even consider making them anymore. They're not even the equivalent of DVDs or CDs to me, they're much worse, like VHS or 8-track. It's just absolutely ridiculous. I don't get a burn on my finger and insist on blowing on it for relief, I run cold tap water on it


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> What do you mean by same form factor and continuing to use it?? The form factor is ATX for motherboards.
> 
> The case I am using is a Be Quit Silent Base 802 with the mesh front with dust filter removed and sealed top. 3 140mm intake fans and 1 140mm rear exhaust fan.


just meant the size and which ever cooler you choose in the future. i saw there will be a new D15 coming also.
maybe, take your panels off while cranking the fans and or use other fans directly on the ram if you haven't already just when stress testing.
my lancool II mesh has much better airflow with 6 phanteks t30 lol!


----------



## Wolverine2349

LilOliVert said:


> Edit: Never mind I can't say it better
> This was my whole point about air coolers. I'd honestly love to see them all become so totally obsolete, that no manufacturer would even consider making them anymore. They're not even the equivalent of DVDs or CDs to me, they're much worse, like VHS or 8-track. It's just absolutely ridiculous. I don't get a burn on my finger and insist on blowing on it for relief, I run cold tap water on it



AIR COOLERS OBSOLETE LOL. Then almost the whole PC and laptop market would die. You cannot sell liquid cooled PCs and laptops to the average consumer.

There will always be air coolers as their should be. They will never be obsolete like VHS lol!!


----------



## DanGleeballs

Wolverine2349 said:


> What do you mean by same form factor and continuing to use it?? The form factor is ATX for motherboards.
> 
> The case I am using is a Be Quit Silent Base 802 with the mesh front with dust filter removed and sealed top. 3 140mm intake fans and 1 140mm rear exhaust fan.


3 in 1 out can't be good either. All that hot air stuck at the top of the case


----------



## Wolverine2349

rs199208 said:


> just meant the size and which ever cooler you choose in the future. i saw there will be a new D15 coming also.
> maybe, take your panels off while cranking the fans and or use other fans directly on the ram if you haven't already just when stress testing.
> my lancool II mesh has much better airflow with 6 phanteks t30 lol!



Per other posts here unless you are overclocking the RAM a lot and /or tightening timings too much up to 60C should be very stable and no issues at XMP and no active cooling required.

I am amazed at all the ones who still use SFF cases and mini ITX builds and think they can get away with large air coolers as their air flow is really restricted.

The Be Quiet Silent Base 802 is a large case with good front to back air flow with sealed foamed top and foamed side panel to drown out EMI and coil whine type noises.. Of course you can use the dampened foam silent front panel too, but of course I am not going to do that because it really restricts airflow. I even remove the dust filter for most optimum front to back airflow while of course having no window side and foam to block as much coil whine and harmonic noise as I can while keeping front to back air flow open.

If you try and do side in take or top exhaust and in take it gets dicey and can make things worse or better depending on setup as it is interfering with the straight front to back airflow.


----------



## rs199208

Wolverine2349 said:


> Per other posts here unless you are overclocking the RAM a lot and /or tightening timings too much up to 60C should be very stable and no issues at XMP and no active cooling required.
> 
> I am amazed at all the ones who still use SFF cases and mini ITX builds and think they can get away with large air coolers as their air flow is really restricted.
> 
> The Be Quiet Silent Base 802 is a large case with good front to back air flow with sealed foamed top and foamed side panel to drown out EMI and coil whine type noises.. Of course you can use the dampened foam silent front panel too, but of course I am not going to do that because it really restricts airflow. I even remove the dust filter for most optimum front to back airflow while of course having no window side and foam to block as much coil whine and harmonic noise as I can while keeping front to back air flow open.
> 
> If you try and do side in take or top exhaust and in take it gets dicey and can make things worse or better depending on setup as it is interfering with the straight front to back airflow.


removing any chance of heat being a issue would only speed up the process of diagnosing. just saying...


----------



## sugi0lover

Here is my quick stable 8400 cl34 setup.
I am going to optimize voltage & ram timings or go to higher clock.
FYI, this is my retail 13900K not golden 13900K ES I showed before.
○ Ram : Hynix 5600 A-die
○ Ram OC : 8400Mhz-34-48-48-32-490-2T
○ MB : Z790 Apex (Bios 0095)
○ Voltages : VDD 1.74 / VDDQ 1.68 / TX 1.42 / MC 1.51 / SA 1.13 / VPP 1.80
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> AIR COOLERS OBSOLETE LOL. Then almost the whole PC and laptop market would die. You cannot sell liquid cooled PCs and laptops to the average consumer.
> 
> There will always be air coolers as their should be. They will never be obsolete like VHS lol!!


I didn't think I needed to point out that I meant in situations where they've obviously grown too big, such as CPUs


----------



## warbucks

Wolverine2349 said:


> Yeah like we should have to use AIOs and risk liquid leaking and frying and shorting every component.
> 
> Advancement should bring PC components so they can be air cooled nd not need liquid cooling unless you are pushing OC records.
> 
> I hate liquid cooling and I am not changing. I am who I am and the NH-D15 is still super popular and hardly outdated!!


The liquid in AIO coolers is not conductive.


----------



## 673714

Wolverine2349 said:


> AIR COOLERS OBSOLETE LOL. Then almost the whole PC and laptop market would die. You cannot sell liquid cooled PCs and laptops to the average consumer.
> 
> There will always be air coolers as their should be. They will never be obsolete like VHS lol!!


Also, you obviously don't realize the heat pipes in air coolers have some liquid in them. You've already lost 


warbucks said:


> The liquid in AIO coolers is not conductive.


Right, but I didn't bother mentioning this because I was too busy laughing at how absurdly huge the air coolers are


----------



## warbucks

LilOliVert said:


> Right, but I didn't bother mentioning this because I was too busy laughing at how absurdly huge the air coolers are


I've spilt water from my loop on components too many times to count. It's distilled water so I don't have to worry about frying/shorting components. Just wipe it off and dry them and you're good to go.


----------



## rs199208

so far 7200 with XMP settings, auto voltages running tm5/absolute hitting only 38C max on dimm1 and 36.5C on dimm2 with ambient of 21C.


----------



## sugi0lover

rs199208 said:


> I'm waiting for Z790 EVGA Dark Kingpin before I make a decision on getting a Z790. Think it will OC DDR5 better than Z790 Apex?


I see one guy has both Z690 and Z790 Dark Kingpin and here are his posts.
According to his conclusion, Z690 Dark with the 13th gen is almost no differernt from Z790 Dark.
Check the link for more details (use google trasnlation function)








쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


안녕하세요 비소비소입니다국내 Z690 Dark KP 사용자분들을 통해 현재 공홈에 올라와 있는 바이오스에선램오버가 제대로 되지 않는다는 얘기를 듣고, EVGA 바이오스 팀 친구에게



coolenjoy.net












쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


안녕하세요, 비소비소입니다요새 틈틈이 시간 날때마다 Z790 다크 킹핀 보드 메모리 테스트를 하고 있습니다 요즘 많이들 쓰시는 *하이닉스 A 다이와시중에 이미 다양하게 풀



coolenjoy.net


----------



## rs199208

sugi0lover said:


> I see one guy has both Z690 and Z790 Dark Kingpin and here are his posts.
> According to his conclusion, Z690 Dark with the 13th gen is almost no differernt from Z790 Dark.
> Check the link for more details (use google trasnlation function)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 안녕하세요 비소비소입니다국내 Z690 Dark KP 사용자분들을 통해 현재 공홈에 올라와 있는 바이오스에선램오버가 제대로 되지 않는다는 얘기를 듣고, EVGA 바이오스 팀 친구에게
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 안녕하세요, 비소비소입니다요새 틈틈이 시간 날때마다 Z790 다크 킹핀 보드 메모리 테스트를 하고 있습니다 요즘 많이들 쓰시는 *하이닉스 A 다이와시중에 이미 다양하게 풀
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net


those sites don't work for me but thanks.


----------



## sugi0lover

rs199208 said:


> those sites don't work for me but thanks.


Then how about these links?


https://quasarzone.com/bbs/qf_cmr/views/1926449










EVGA Z790 DARK K|NGP|N - 메모리 테스트


안녕하세요 여러분의 OC 메이트비소비소입니다틈틈이 시간 날때마다 Z790 다크 킹핀 보드 메모리 테스트를 하…




quasarzone.com


----------



## rs199208

sugi0lover said:


> Then how about these links?
> 
> 
> https://quasarzone.com/bbs/qf_cmr/views/1926449
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVGA Z790 DARK K|NGP|N - 메모리 테스트
> 
> 
> 안녕하세요 여러분의 OC 메이트비소비소입니다틈틈이 시간 날때마다 Z790 다크 킹핀 보드 메모리 테스트를 하…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quasarzone.com


This one works on my phone. Thanks.


----------



## Carillo

8400 C34 with only 1.62VDD. 1000% Kahru and 150% ish HCI. The 0095 bios is really good. Water temp is around 18C. I know SA can be much lower, but easier to just use overhead when testing. Tomorrow G.skill 7600 kit is arriving. Will be fun to compare. 


CPU : 13900KF SP103 with E-cores enabled (delidded)
DRAM: Sk Hynix 5600 c40
Voltages : SA 1.400v / TX 1.400 / MC 1.400v / VDD 1.62V VDDQ 1.62V
Ram cooling : Supercool
Motherboard : Z790 APEX 0095


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend's 8400 CL32 setup (very high voltage )

CPU: 13900K (SP110 - P120, E92)
M/B: Z790 APEX 0095 BIOS
DRAM: Teamgroup XMP 7200 CL34 1.4v
OC : 8400 CL32-48
VDD/VDDQ 1.84v/1.82v / VDDQ TX 1.4v / SA 1.2v / MC 1.4875v


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> 8400 C34 with only 1.62VDD. 1000% Kahru and 150% ish HCI. The 0095 bios is really good. Water temp is around 18C. I know SA can be much lower, but easier to just use overhead when testing. Tomorrow G.skill 7600 kit is arriving. Will be fun to compare.
> 
> 
> CPU : 13900KF SP103 with E-cores enabled (delidded)
> DRAM: Sk Hynix 5600 c40
> Voltages : SA 1.400v / TX 1.400 / MC 1.400v / VDD 1.62V VDDQ 1.62V
> Ram cooling : Supercool
> Motherboard : Z790 APEX 0095
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581705


 Very nice~ I agree that 0095 bios is wonder.
Here is 0099 bios.








ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-APEX-ASUS-0099.CAP


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> Very nice~ I agree that 0095 bios is wonder.
> Here is 0099 bios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-APEX-ASUS-0099.CAP
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thanks! I actually ran in to some strange blue screens , and corrupt windows after finishing a stable setup with 0099. Don’t understand what happened. After this it refused to post anything even after clear cmos, so i went back to 0095 for now


----------



## bianbao.dev

Carillo said:


> Thanks! I actually ran in to some strange blue screens , and corrupt windows after finishing a stable setup with 0099. Don’t understand what happened. After this it refused to post anything even after clear cmos, so i went back to 0095 for now


0099 almost as same as 0095, only improve system performance.


----------



## bigfootnz

I got some cheap PNY 2x8GB stick which I was planing to use on other build running just JEDEC 4800. But this stick are SK Hynix, and I assume M-die, as HWinfo is not able to read die version. It has Renesas PMIC, which should be able to unlock on Z690 Hero. At the moment I'm testing 6200C32 with tight timing and probably I need more VDD voltage. But that is the problem. At the moment in bios I've VDD/VDDQ 1.5/1.45 but HWinfo is reading 1.45/1.45. If I put more than 1.5V for VDD I cannot train memory. 

I'm wrong thinking that Renesas is unlocked on Z690 Hero? Or what else can be the problem?


----------



## Carillo

bianbao.dev said:


> 0099 almost as same as 0095, only improve system performance.


Probably user-error


----------



## bianbao.dev

Carillo said:


> Probably user-error


I have noticed that sometimes after updating the new bios, there will be unpredictable problems at the beginning, after few reboot, problem gone.

still try to figure out this issue root cause.


----------



## emrick.lee.ghost

Saw too many good motherboards with good sticks
Still M-die here with Z690-F, with slightly adjustment, most of the cases could achieve this result using my setting
G Skill Z5 RGB 6400-32
Not cleared background latency


----------



## rs199208

I adjusted vcore up much higher than I normally run per frequency and core count and now 7400 with 7200 XMP seems tm5 stable with rest of voltages at auto. 
Maybe, why I had to run AC/DC llc 80/65 then. Interesting....


----------



## acoustic

Should do your DRAM testing with CPU at stock..


----------



## rs199208

acoustic said:


> Should do your DRAM testing with CPU at stock..


Running completely stock cpu would be a waste of time for me right now I never run it that way. I literally change the cpu setup for every different workload. So I'm starting with my most used setup.


----------



## acoustic

rs199208 said:


> Running completely stock cpu would be a waste of time for me right now I never run it that way. I literally change the cpu setup for every different workload. So I'm starting with my most used setup.


You waste more time having instability due to the CPU while you're trying to tune the RAM. RAM is infinitely harder to tune than the chip, especially with DDR5. Leave CPU stock, dial in the RAM, and then find the limits of the CPU.

Up to you though, obviously. Just seems counter-productive to go down rabbit holes thinking the DRAM voltages you're changing are going to be your solution, and then it turns out the CPU stability was affected.


----------



## Nizzen

bianbao.dev said:


> 0099 almost as same as 0095, only improve system performance.


Welcome to OCN ❤


----------



## rs199208

acoustic said:


> You waste more time having instability due to the CPU while you're trying to tune the RAM. RAM is infinitely harder to tune than the chip, especially with DDR5. Leave CPU stock, dial in the RAM, and then find the limits of the CPU.
> 
> Up to you though, obviously. Just seems counter-productive to go down rabbit holes thinking the DRAM voltages you're changing are going to be your solution, and then it turns out the CPU stability was affected.


Yeah, I never needed this level of cpu stability before. Didn't realize it needed this much to push ddr5. 
Just flipped cpu to auto but left everything else disabled. Just to see how much it makes a difference while running high dram clocks.


----------



## robalm

bscool said:


> Do you have the latest version. Not sure if that changes it.
> 
> Found the problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASRock > FAQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.asrock.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Answer:
> Microsoft® Windows 11® has a security function called "Memory integrity”. This function can prevent attacks from inserting malicious code into high-security processes, but it will interfere with the ability to read sensor values and affect the function of OC software."


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> I see one guy has both Z690 and Z790 Dark Kingpin and here are his posts.
> According to his conclusion, Z690 Dark with the 13th gen is almost no differernt from Z790 Dark.
> Check the link for more details (use google trasnlation function)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 안녕하세요 비소비소입니다국내 Z690 Dark KP 사용자분들을 통해 현재 공홈에 올라와 있는 바이오스에선램오버가 제대로 되지 않는다는 얘기를 듣고, EVGA 바이오스 팀 친구에게
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 안녕하세요, 비소비소입니다요새 틈틈이 시간 날때마다 Z790 다크 킹핀 보드 메모리 테스트를 하고 있습니다 요즘 많이들 쓰시는 *하이닉스 A 다이와시중에 이미 다양하게 풀
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net


having trouble to access coolenjoy.net recently .


----------



## asdkj1740

btw i have been seeing more and more cases about the xmp profile of 7600mhz kit being unstable on different z790 mobos.
so try to get 7200mhz or low kit, they seem fine running xmp. 7600mhz definitely needs more tweaks made by mobo vendors to get it stable, or it is truly in the cpu lottery range.


----------



## Brandur

Hello everyone,

is it possible to run 7200 or 7600 at XMP on a Z690 Unify-X with a 13900k or is a z790 mainboard needed? I don't want to tweak manually, just plug and play, since I need a stable PC for competitive online gaming.


----------



## energie80

Brandur said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> is it possible to run 7200 or 7600 at XMP on a Z690 Unify-X with a 13900k or is a z790 mainboard needed? I don't want to tweak manually, just plug and play, since I need a stable PC for competitive online gaming.


7200 should be no problem


----------



## oc_og

I have an ASUS Z790 Extreme and a 13900K, I can run a GSkill DDR5-7.600 kit stable @7.800 CL38-48-48-125 (rest is stock, XMP Tweaked with Maximus Tweak Option 2)









However if I set to DDR5-8000 with the same timings (as they did in some blog post which was working fine) I can only boot to BIOS but not to Windows, they used the same timings as I have now for 7.800

Any tips which timings would be appropriate or should I try more memory voltage? These are my current voltages while testmem5 is running


----------



## energie80

sa voltage?


----------



## oc_og

Here are my other voltages and timings (while testmem was running)


----------



## energie80

1.25 sa should be enough, try increasing imc to 1.4


----------



## oc_og

I can boot with IMC 1.4v and DDR5-8000, got 1 error in Testmem5 ABSOLUT after ~2 minutes, so definitely a big improvement to not bootable at all

Should I change more voltage or timings?


----------



## GGiuliano93

grilli4nt said:


> Just got my g.skill ddr5-7200 A die, running stable at default XMP2 timings with my z790 strix-f and 13900k. Anyone with same kits who has some ideas on tighter timings? Havent tried increase frequency or anything yet.


I have a z790 hero (better hoard) and can’t get 7200 with xmp, what a scam LOL, when i have time i will try manual oc


----------



## Nizzen

GGiuliano93 said:


> I have a z790 hero (better hoard) and can’t get 7200 with xmp, what a scam LOL, when i have time i will try manual oc


Try to disable fastboot in bios


----------



## oc_og

GGiuliano93 said:


> I have a z790 hero (better hoard) and can’t get 7200 with xmp, what a scam LOL, when i have time i will try manual oc


It took me three Z790 Extreme boards and five 13900Ks to get one combination that was working @7.600 stock XMP settings.... so I wouldn't expect good results there, either the board / CPU can do it or they don't


----------



## GGiuliano93

Nizzen said:


> Try to disable fastboot in bios


It’s the first thing i disable, also don’t wanna try beta bios so i will wait :c


----------



## Nizzen

GGiuliano93 said:


> It’s the first thing i disable, also don’t wanna try beta bios so i will wait :c


Don't want betabios? Buy 2 years old hardware


----------



## oc_og

GGiuliano93 said:


> It’s the first thing i disable, also don’t wanna try beta bios so i will wait :c


Which BIOS do you have?


----------



## Brandur

oc_og said:


> It took me three Z790 Extreme boards and five 13900Ks to get one combination that was working @7.600 stock XMP settings.... so I wouldn't expect good results there, either the board / CPU can do it or they don't


That is insane! Do the MSI boards have this problem too? I have a flashback, when DDR5 launched and I couldn't get anything above DDR5 6000 stable with my crappy Apex 2021. Does anyone have 7600MT/s running on a Z790 MSI board at XMP?


----------



## GGiuliano93

oc_og said:


> Which BIOS do you have?


0703



Nizzen said:


> Don't want betabios? Buy 2 years old hardware


I came from am4 and 5900x, still got more problems than new hw + ddr5.
Btw for now it works at 7000 mhz, i want a stable system so i will regularly check for updates.

Later when i will have time to “play” with settings i will try.

It makes me just laugh that those ram (and speeds) are in the qvl list and with plug and play settings don’t work lol.


----------



## energie80

Brandur said:


> That is insane! Do the MSI boards have this problem too? I have a flashback, when DDR5 launched and I couldn't get anything above DDR5 6000 stable with my crappy Apex 2021. Does anyone have 7600MT/s running on a Z790 MSI board at XMP?


I saw some unify x at 7600
Will let you know when my team group arrives


----------



## Brandur

Is there a reason, why MSI didn't announce a Z790 Unify-X? If 7600MT/s would run on my Z690 Unify-X, I wouldn't upgrade to Z790. Or maybe I just buy 7200MT/s and try run it on my Unify-X. The gaming performance difference shouldn't be that much between 7200 and 7600 I guess!


----------



## grilli4nt

GGiuliano93 said:


> I have a z790 hero (better hoard) and can’t get 7200 with xmp, what a scam LOL, when i have time i will try manual oc


When I first plugged the kits in and tuned in XMP, I was getting past the Asus motherboard screen, but directly when coming to the windows login screen, I lost the signal to displays, i.e. couldnt boot windows. At this point, I was on the MB bios that the board was shipped with, I think 0502 or even older. Without doing too much digging into it, I installed the latest ME and BIOS (first ME, then BIOS) from asus support page for my board (ME 16.1.25.2020, bios 0703), and after that it posts to windows and seems to work fine. Not sure if that was the fix but now it seems all good. Haven't done any extensive stress testing / benching but just running karhu as we speak and so far so good.


















See below for my voltage settings.

IVR TX VDDQ: 1.35
IMC VDD: 1.35
SA: 1.25
MEM VDD: 1.4 (XMP)
MEM VDDQ: 1.4 (XMP)

Hope this helps.


----------



## opt33

asdkj1740 said:


> btw i have been seeing more and more cases about the xmp profile of 7600mhz kit being unstable on different z790 mobos.
> so try to get 7200mhz or low kit, they seem fine running xmp. 7600mhz definitely needs more tweaks made by mobo vendors to get it stable, or it is truly in the cpu lottery range.


I have a friend 45 minutes away that bought z790 hero and 13900k and couldnt get his teamgroup 7200 stable. His 13900k didnt overclock well so bought second one, and I brought my 2 adie kits and my 13900kf over to try on his mobo.

His old 13900k max 7200 stable on 1 of 3 kits (my teamgroup), 7400 no chance, 7600 no boot or instant bsod loading windows.

His new 13900k ran all 3 kits 7600 easily for 10 mins tm5, including my vcolor (though vcolor was worst kit, higher voltages, probably wasnt really stable 7600). both TG kits ran 7800 tm5 no issue and 8000 booted into windows.

My 13900kf booted and ran tm5 7600 on z790 hero (suggesting limiting factor is my unifyx at 7400), 7800 would not boot with any of 3 kits.

bottom line his second 13900k 7800+ stable , my 13900kf max 7600 stable, his first 13900k max 7200 (with only 1 of 3 kits working for that).

Only way I will buy z790 is if 13900ks get released early and I try second shot at better imc. Having a good or binned imc makes all kits look easy.

(btw.. my 13900kf with msi mforce rating of 140 was sp 98, pcore 106 on z790 hero)


----------



## Carillo

Hello. I think this might be interesting for those of you who are concidering the new G.skill 7600 c36 kit... well i got it today, and have now spent a couple of hours testing it. And I just have to say, considering the price, this is rubbish. I have tested different settings from 1.4 to 1.7 volts, and can say that the BIN quality is far worse than my 5600 c40 greens, but most amazingly, they are worse than the 6600 c34 kit that I have also tested. Not a lot, but a little. I paid 600 euros in Norway for this kit, and would recommend those who are considering this to steer clear. Maybe I had bad luck with this particular kit, but still... Goodbye G.skill


----------



## acoustic

It feels like G.Skill has a better connection with Samsung, because to me, it seems as though TeamGroup is getting far better bins of Hynix than G.Skill is


----------



## Bexak

Noticed Asus have not updated Z690 Hero QVL list since Raptor Lake's release. Z790 hero has kits up to 7800Mhz, whereas Z690 hero stops at 6600Mhz.

Anyone tried 7200+ kits on Z690 Hero at XMP?

Board looks identical, unless they've crippled BIOS somehow


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> Hello. I think this might be interesting for those of you who are concidering the new G.skill 7600 c36 kit... well i got it today, and have now spent a couple of hours testing it. And I just have to say, considering the price, this is rubbish. I have tested different settings from 1.4 to 1.7 volts, and can say that the BIN quality is far worse than my 5600 c40 greens, but most amazingly, they are worse than the 6600 c34 kit that I have also tested. Not a lot, but a little. I paid 600 euros in Norway for this kit, and would recommend those who are considering this to steer clear. Maybe I had bad luck with this particular kit, but still... Goodbye G.skill
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581799


I got the cheaper one, G.Skill DDR5-7200 kit. It works at stock xmp after some tweaking. But I've spent a few hours trying to get 7600 out of it. Nothing seems to work, played with timings and all sorts of voltages. Maybe it's the kit, but even when I put 1.6V on the dimms, it just errors out on karhu directly. I think maybe my IMC don't want anything to do with it. 7400 looks much more promising tho, havent tweaked so much yet.

Is IMC deg a thing just after a few rounds of testing? Going back to the XMP rates with same figures after a few hours of trying to get 7600 stable got me erroring out on Karhu after like 5 mins, where I previously held it for more than 15. Could be coincidence? Or could a few runs of karhu with imc volt around 1.4 and tx vddq around 1.5 has caused any damage? hmmm...

Edit: Carillo, what could you get out of the kit? Any stable freqs at all to report?


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> I got the cheaper one, G.Skill DDR5-7200 kit. It works at stock xmp after some tweaking. But I've spent a few hours trying to get 7600 out of it. Nothing seems to work, played with timings and all sorts of voltages. Maybe it's the kit, but even when I put 1.6V on the dimms, it just errors out on karhu directly. I think maybe my IMC don't want anything to do with it. 7400 looks much more promising tho, havent tweaked so much yet.
> 
> Is IMC deg a thing just after a few rounds of testing? Going back to the XMP rates with same figures after a few hours of trying to get 7600 stable got me erroring out on Karhu after like 5 mins, where I previously held it for more than 15. Could be coincidence? Or could a few runs of karhu with imc volt around 1.4 and tx vddq around 1.5 has caused any damage? hmmm...
> 
> Edit: Carillo, what could you get out of the kit? Any stable freqs at all to report?


I did of course compare this kit to my 8200 and 8400 profiles i have done with my 5600 kit and 6600 kit. Never tried xmp. I don't belive in degradation. it's a myth  I did not waste time fully stability test it, but 8400 c34 is no problem with around 1.7 volt for this particular kit.

*EDIT: I belive most people are limited by motherboard/bios maturity. So unless you have a z790 Apex or Z790 Dark , I think the cheapest A-die kit with unlocked pmic is the best choice right now *


----------



## asdkj1740

oc_og said:


> It took me three Z790 Extreme boards and five 13900Ks to get one combination that was working @7.600 stock XMP settings.... so I wouldn't expect good results there, either the board / CPU can do it or they don't


7600 xmp is a beach, even on 8 layers mobo.


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> I did of course compare this kit to my 8200 and 8400 profiles i have done with my 5600 kit and 6600 kit. Never tried xmp. I don't belive in degradation. it's a myth  I did not waste time fully stability test it, but 8400 c34 is no problem with around 1.7 volt for this particular kit.
> 
> *EDIT: I belive most people are limited by motherboard/bios maturity. So unless you have a z790 Apex or Z790 Dark , I think the cheapest A-die kit with unlocked pmic is the best choice right now *


Ah ok, I see. Thanks. I was thinking of the more expensive g skill 7600 but with my MB maybe im better sticking to the kit I have. Do you think a z790 hero would make any difference? Or do I need to go 2-slot board to really see any differences? I can get a hero for a discounted price, hence asking.


----------



## asdkj1740

grilli4nt said:


> Ah ok, I see. Thanks. I was thinking of the more expensive g skill 7600 but with my MB maybe im better sticking to the kit I have. Do you think a z790 hero would make any difference? Or do I need to go 2-slot board to really see any differences? I can get a hero for a discounted price, hence asking.


you can always enable 7600 xmp profile then manually set back the frequency to 7200mhz.


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> Ah ok, I see. Thanks. I was thinking of the more expensive g skill 7600 but with my MB maybe im better sticking to the kit I have. Do you think a z790 hero would make any difference? Or do I need to go 2-slot board to really see any differences? I can get a hero for a discounted price, hence asking.


i have seen amazing results with z790 Hero. I saw one guy ran 8200 HCI , so it seems like a strong board IMO ☺


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> Hello. I think this might be interesting for those of you who are concidering the new G.skill 7600 c36 kit... well i got it today, and have now spent a couple of hours testing it. And I just have to say, considering the price, this is rubbish. I have tested different settings from 1.4 to 1.7 volts, and can say that the BIN quality is far worse than my 5600 c40 greens, but most amazingly, they are worse than the 6600 c34 kit that I have also tested. Not a lot, but a little. I paid 600 euros in Norway for this kit, and would recommend those who are considering this to steer clear. Maybe I had bad luck with this particular kit, but still... Goodbye G.skill
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581799


i have this kits for weeks and i am still trying to get it stable at 7200mhz with tight timing
enabling 7600xmp plus dropping the frequency back to 7200mhz is fine. but nothing more as of today.


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> you can always enable 7600 xmp profile then manually set back the frequency to 7200mhz.


Running 7200 A-die is pointless. Much better gaming performance with M-die @ 6400 1T/ 6600 2t or DDR4 4000 c14 with those speeds.


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> Running 7200 A-die is pointless. Much better gaming performance with M-die @ 6400 1T/ 6600 2t or DDR4 4000 c14 with those speeds.


how dare you!!!!!



maybe this kit requires god binned cpu with insanely good imc.


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> how dare you!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> maybe this kit requires god binned cpu with insanely good imc.


I have tested 4 retail CPU’s on my Apex z690 and z790 , all can do 8000+ without any insane MC volt


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> I have tested 4 retail CPU’s on my Apex z690 and z790 , all can do 8000+ without any insane MC volt


What do you consider safe MC volt? And what about the TX VDDQ volt, daily for gaming, what do you say?

Edit: I've seen people here on this forum saying not to worry at all about TX VDDQ, as its part of something called fivr rail, and wont damage just keeping it to auto. Others have said it can fry the IMC at above 1.4 volts.. so I'm a bit puzzled


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> Running 7200 A-die is pointless. Much better gaming performance with M-die @ 6400 1T/ 6600 2t or DDR4 4000 c14 with those speeds.


Hmm yeah ok. I also have a set of M-dies 6400. Managed to get them stable at 6800cl32. See my post here: G.Skill 6400-32 @6800-32 1.365V | SA=0.92V | TX=1.1V

Im out of ideas for how to stabilize the A-die to anything above 7400. In that case, maybe the m-die is a better choice for me? (They're also about 150 eur cheaper).


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> I have tested 4 retail CPU’s on my Apex z690 and z790 , all can do 8000+ without any insane MC volt


i have two cpu and three mobos as well, no luck at all.
7600xmp is cursed.


----------



## sugi0lover

a little more optimized for my 8400 cl34 stable setup





















[Update] 8400-32-47-47-32-480


----------



## Nizzen

Some wondered about 7600xmp is working:
Borrowed a g.skill 7600 kit from my neighbour.

0099 bios and loaded "XMP Tweaked" in bios. stock bios.


----------



## opt33

asdkj1740 said:


> i have two cpu and three mobos as well, no luck at all.
> 7600xmp is cursed.


If you decide to try your luck with z790 apex/dark post your results. Be interesting to see if your imc/ram combo is then capable of 7800-8000. Carillo's 4 retail kits at 8000 on apex give some hope (or he got 4 decent imcs). Just wonder how much better a mediocre imc 13900 is on z790 apex vs for example z690 unifyx. even though just 1 sample, still helpful, especially if more post same.


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> What do you consider safe MC volt? And what about the TX VDDQ volt, daily for gaming, what do you say?
> 
> Edit: I've seen people here on this forum saying not to worry at all about TX VDDQ, as its part of something called fivr rail, and wont damage just keeping it to auto. Others have said it can fry the IMC at above 1.4 volts.. so I'm a bit puzzled


Based on your flag , you live in Sweden right ? 5 year warranty. I have no clue what I’m doing , neither do I know anything about safe. As long as my cpu keep scaling , I’m going to keep increasing voltage 😄I will let you know when I receive the 00 q-code 😅


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> a little more optimized for my 8400 cl34 stable setup
> View attachment 2581807
> 
> View attachment 2581808


 Awesome result , but be honest. How many times did you smash the latency box to get 47,9 ? 😂😂


----------



## db000

chibi said:


> You used thermal pads on both sides of the PBC? I thought Bartx instructions were to use thermal paste of the memory chips and only pad on the pmic?


Explained earlier, 1mm Minus Pad 8 on both sides. Never above 30c. Could be little less with thinner pads on one side or thermal paste. But pads are alot less messy.


----------



## energie80

That’s why I moved from gskill to teamgroup


----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> That’s why I moved from gskill to teamgroup


Because why? I didn't understand


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Some wondered about 7600xmp is working:
> Borrowed a g.skill 7600 kit from my neighbour.
> 
> 0099 bios and loaded "XMP Tweaked" in bios. stock bios.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581837
> 
> View attachment 2581837


the voltages look normal, it then seems bios optimization plays a significant role here.
would you mind sharing the timings of that profile of asus new xmp-1 ?


btw i think my neighbour is using ddr3


----------



## asdkj1740

energie80 said:


> That’s why I moved from gskill to teamgroup


i dont think this is the same case like the mess of 3636e/4040e a year ago.
but again, qvl is a joke.


----------



## energie80

Nizzen said:


> Because why? I didn't understand


They don’t even put thermal pad on pmic, temps are Really bad and ddr5 are extremely sensitively


----------



## 673714

Carillo said:


> Running 7200 A-die is pointless. Much better gaming performance with M-die @ 6400 1T/ 6600 2t or DDR4 4000 c14 with those speeds.


This is me lol. I'm just doing VR and games, so response time is my top priority. I'm very happy @ just 6600MHz on what I'm pretty sure is M-die (G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB) tightened up a bit so the latency is mostly between 55ns-60ns. Best part is my sticks are stable while just passive cooled


----------



## Carillo

8600 c36 is actually possible! 3000 MT/S OC from 5600 c40  Testing the 0099 bios again @bianbao.dev . But can it run Crysis ?


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> the voltages look normal, it then seems bios optimization plays a significant role here.
> would you mind sharing the timings of that profile of asus new xmp-1 ?
> 
> 
> btw i think my neighbour is using ddr3


Here you go my friend 

Asus XMP tweaked














XMP 1 (Tuned xmp in xmp1?) Strange 








Edit: Asus makes it impossible to run low performance on Apex 🥳😅


----------



## J_Lab4645

rs199208 said:


> i now regret selling my gskill 6400 M die kit, a 6600 gskill kit replaced it. i only recently really got focused on OC and tightening my DDR5 so had a learning curve. 6600 wouldn't post much past 7000 on Unify X, could of been my fault or possibly a bad kit.
> just picked up the 7200 A die gskill kit from Microcenter last night (sunday).
> 7200 XMP posted easily, then i tightened it down to 45ns in MLC.
> afterwards i set a new new bios profile then experimented with higher frequencies booting into 7400, 7600, 7800 using stock XMP settings but added voltages.
> 7800 seemed difficult for my MB at first but it booted. so i attempted to tighten down 7600 but couldn't get stable, again prob my fault and or too much heat on dimms idk yet.
> 7200 is setting at 1.5V linked dimm voltage because I'm afraid of tweaking anything else lol!.
> I've yet to do any stability tests but i am typing on this rig right now with 7200 active.


M-die is the 'tighten up' Queen
A-die is the 'bandwidth' King


----------



## J_Lab4645

Ketku- said:


> @sugi0lover Is there any information yet on the difference between Overclocking Z690 Apex + 13900K vs Z790 Apex + 13900K overall?


Just my .02 after testing just (3) Z690 boards w/ i9-13900KF. Asus Rog Strix z690-e, Z690 Apex-2021 (max 6800mhz capability-), MSI Z690 Carbon. Now testing same CPU on Z790 hero. ......no comparison. Asus Z790 hero just works. Many users here have 'great' Z690 boards but .....(going out on a limb here)- Z790 rocks! (thank you Asus). If you have a 'great' Z690 Apex then probably no difference. Mobo, Ram, Cpu binning is real for best performance......


----------



## cstkl1

J_Lab4645 said:


> M-die is the 'tighten up' Queen
> A-die is the 'bandwidth' King


trfc only mdie on low clock. so dont confuse with the word tighten.
mdie it be a miracle if it could run trfc 452/468 @8400


----------



## rs199208

J_Lab4645 said:


> M-die is the 'tighten up' Queen
> A-die is the 'bandwidth' King


12900ks Unify x Rig is running tm5/absolute again with 7200 XMP all voltages stock so 1.4 on dimms. CPU on stock settings now with E cores disabled.
I'm guessing this will not have any errors.

My 6600 kit was capable of 1t.
I'll keep both kits because I'll be getting a z790 soon just don't know which one yet.

Bitspower DDR5 2 dimm block will arrive this Saturday. Will I need pads or something extra for the dies?
I have multiple tubes of liquid metal.


----------



## J_Lab4645

cstkl1 said:


> trfc only mdie on low clock. so dont confuse with the word tighten.
> mdie it be a miracle if it could run trfc 452/468 @8400


okay, okay! ...don't be hatin on someone that has only tested below 7200mhz. Appreciate the knowledge! There's a lotta folks here asking questions <7200mhz so I'll just bow out now.


----------



## rs199208

No errors with 7200 XMP but the hub temps did increase by 1 degree or more with cpu stock less E cores even with direct die lol!


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> 8600 c36 is actually possible! 3000 MT/S OC from 5600 c40  Testing the 0099 bios again @bianbao.dev . But can it run Crysis ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581853


Voltages you can share?


----------



## Brandur

Is there any chance, that Asus improves the support of DDR5 XMP above 7200MT/s in the future, for the Asus Z790 Hero. I would like to buy one, but I am a bit scared of people saying, they can't get 7200 XMP stable :/.


----------



## Nelfhunt

energie80 said:


> They don’t even put thermal pad on pmic


This does not matter. PMIC is not temp sensitive at all and you don´t know the temp of the memory dies, because there is no temp sensor inside the memory "chips".
Besides, DDR5 calls for active cooling, put at least a fan over your DIMMs and you are fine.


----------



## cstkl1

Intel i9 - 13900k @ Stock LLC3 0.25/1.1 
Asus Maximus Z790 APEX - 0099
G.Skill F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK @8200 [email protected]
MC 1.45
tXvddq Auto
SA offset 0.250


----------



## oc22jirM

Nizzen said:


> Here you go my friend
> 
> Asus XMP tweaked
> View attachment 2581855
> 
> View attachment 2581856
> 
> XMP 1 (Tuned xmp in xmp1?) Strange
> View attachment 2581862
> 
> 
> Edit: Asus makes it impossible to run low performance on Apex 🥳😅


What's up bro hope you've been well. I've been off the thread for a couple weeks do you happen to have anything off the top of your head to point me to the XMP tweak?? Or about what page how long ago this came up?


----------



## oc22jirM

Carillo said:


> 8600 c36 is actually possible! 3000 MT/S OC from 5600 c40  Testing the 0099 bios again @bianbao.dev . But can it run Crysis ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581853


What's up bro? I've been following this thread since 12th gen launch (besides the past couple of weeks). Your OC has always been so beast its ridiculous. Cheers


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> Voltages you can share?


all the voltages are in the photo, but here you go : VDD/Q : 1,62 / SA 1.40 / TX 1.4 / MC 1.47 / L2 1.235 / VPP 1.80 / CPU input 1.85


----------



## cstkl1

0099-M15A-8200C34.CMO







drive.google.com





setting for 8200C34..

this has my llc setting btw.


----------



## cstkl1

J_Lab4645 said:


> okay, okay! ...don't be hatin on someone that has only tested below 7200mhz. Appreciate the knowledge! There's a lotta folks here asking questions <7200mhz so I'll just bow out now.


you just made a statement likes its a universal truth
and now indirectly saying everything you say has no merit using the guise of "we" as cover.

funny guy.

the question should be is adie worth it on air cooling. with mdie limited bandwidth its fine on air. adie. hmm having tested on air vs water. .. water the way to go


----------



## Ketku-

Damn, dont know what i doing..
Maybe continue with Z690 Apex + 12900K or buy Z790 Apex / Extreme + 13900K and continue this hobby..


----------



## roooo

Bexak said:


> Noticed Asus have not updated Z690 Hero QVL list since Raptor Lake's release. Z790 hero has kits up to 7800Mhz, whereas Z690 hero stops at 6600Mhz.
> 
> Anyone tried 7200+ kits on Z690 Hero at XMP?


Got my Gskill 7600C36 yesterday. On Z690 Hero with 2103 BIOS and 13900K, I wasn't able to post XMP2 unless I upped MC to 1.35V and DIMM voltages to 1.5V. However, Karhu would error out after a couple of seconds. Lowering to 7200 with the XMP2 profile and 1.49V, I was able to run Karhu for 5min w/o errors before I stopped it.
Unless a refined BIOS pops up within the next 14d, I'll return the sticks. At around 500 EUR, it's currently not worth the trouble over Gskill 6400C32 for me.

Cheers,
r.


----------



## Brandur

cstkl1 said:


> Intel i9 - 13900k @ Stock LLC3 0.25/1.1
> Asus Maximus Z790 APEX - 0099
> G.Skill F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK @8200 [email protected]
> MC 1.45
> tXvddq Auto
> SA offset 0.250


What is your SP rating, since I have the same VID, Vcore and Temperatures at the stock boost, as you show in your screen.

thank you!


----------



## cstkl1

Brandur said:


> What is your SP rating, since I have the same VID, Vcore and Temperatures at the stock boost, as you show in your screen.
> 
> thank you!


110


----------



## centvalny

8800c36 air


----------



## cstkl1

centvalny said:


> 8800c36 air
> View attachment 2581945


nice bro. giga need ln2 for dat. 🤣


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> Based on your flag , you live in Sweden right ? 5 year warranty. I have no clue what I’m doing , neither do I know anything about safe. As long as my cpu keep scaling , I’m going to keep increasing voltage 😄I will let you know when I receive the 00 q-code 😅


Fair enough, I shall start adapting this approach. We're here to have fun, no? 😅


----------



## stahlhart

cstkl1 said:


> the question should be is adie worth it on air cooling. with mdie limited bandwidth its fine on air. adie. hmm having tested on air vs water. .. water the way to go


I understand your point, but if above and beyond ambient or optional fan cooling is going to be a requirement, and there isn't going to be a self-contained off the shelf solution for it, then you can forget mass adoption.

The majority of end users don't want an aquarium sitting on their desk, and the maintenance that goes along with it.


----------



## grilli4nt

Normal that RAM sticks make a high pitch noise during bench? The G.Skill 7200 making a coil whiny noise, very audible, when running aida64 mem bench. Never heard this before from ram.


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> Normal that RAM sticks make a high pitch noise during bench? The G.Skill 7200 making a coil whiny noise, very audible, when running aida64 mem bench. Never heard this before from ram.


Yes


----------



## stahlhart

grilli4nt said:


> Normal that RAM sticks make a high pitch noise during bench? The G.Skill 7200 making a coil whiny noise, very audible, when running aida64 mem bench. Never heard this before from ram.


Probably your motherboard.


----------



## grilli4nt

stahlhart said:


> Probably your motherboard.


Did not make the sound with the other m-die kits I'm swapping with. Hmm..


----------



## stahlhart

grilli4nt said:


> Did not make the sound with the other m-die kits I'm swapping with. Hmm..


My motherboard didn't start talking back to me until I put the 6400 kit in, and then only when running AIDA, since I'm one of those normies who doesn't know any better.


----------



## grilli4nt

stahlhart said:


> My motherboard didn't start talking back to me until I put the 6400 kit in, and then only when running AIDA, since I'm one of those normies who doesn't know any better.


I shall be thankful then that we are just about to start up a more constructive dialogue. It's easier to reach common ground like that.


----------



## TraumatikOC

I know that this isnt amazing , but got 7600 cl 36 on my Gskill kit by using asus hynix 7600 profile then asus tweak 1 setting. Glad i didnt go for Extreme mobo this time , this hero is doing just fine for me.

If anybody notices tweaks to improve , ill appreciate it.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

What you guys use PMIC switching freq. auto or 1khz ? I get massive voltage drop stress test


----------



## grilli4nt

TraumatikOC said:


> I know that this isnt amazing , but got 7600 cl 36 on my Gskill kit by using asus hynix 7600 profile then asus tweak 1 setting. Glad i didnt go for Extreme mobo this time , this hero is doing just fine for me.
> 
> If anybody notices tweaks to improve , ill appreciate it.
> 
> View attachment 2582001


Nice! Having same setup as you expect the strix-f instead of hero. Really struggling to get 7600, and even XMP stable. Either my IMC is trash or this mobo just not wanting to play ball. Whats your voltages?


----------



## energie80

1khz


----------



## TraumatikOC

grilli4nt said:


> Nice! Having same setup as you expect the strix-f instead of hero. Really struggling to get 7600, and even XMP stable. Either my IMC is trash or this mobo just not wanting to play ball. Whats your voltages?


This is while running CB23 hope this helps


----------



## rs199208

Bitspower 2 dimm block arrived already. 2 day free shipping. My first time water cooling ram. Hopefully I don't mess it up lol!


----------



## rs199208




----------



## asdkj1740

grilli4nt said:


> Normal that RAM sticks make a high pitch noise during bench? The G.Skill 7200 making a coil whiny noise, very audible, when running aida64 mem bench. Never heard this before from ram.


it is the mobo vrm. and you should also update your aida64 to the latest version.
before 6.8 every mobo sounds like a concert when running aida64


----------



## opt33

TraumatikOC said:


> I know that this isnt amazing , but got 7600 cl 36 on my Gskill kit by using asus hynix 7600 profile then asus tweak 1 setting. Glad i didnt go for Extreme mobo this time , this hero is doing just fine for me.
> 
> If anybody notices tweaks to improve , ill appreciate it.


have you been able to get 7600 stable for longer testing on z790 hero? have a friend with z790 hero that couldnt get 7200 stable, then bought different 13900k cpu and we tested max frequency booting with short 5-10 minute tm5 runs at 7600+, but no time for long tests. He is now back to running 7200 as couldnt get 7600 or 7400 stable with longer runs of tm5 or memtest. Seems to error out no matter settings/voltages.


----------



## asdkj1740

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> What you guys use PMIC switching freq. auto or 1khz ? I get massive voltage drop stress test
> View attachment 2582004


hwinfo64 is not reporting the true values. the reason why you see a big drop of dram vdd or dram vddq is just the way how hwinfo64 access the bus for you.

but of course there are vdroop on pmic, and it seems even mobo vendors have no clue how to tune the llc of the pmic.


----------



## Nizzen

opt33 said:


> have you been able to get 7600 stable for longer testing on z790 hero? have a friend with z790 hero that couldnt get 7200 stable, then bought different 13900k cpu and we tested max frequency booting with short 5-10 minute tm5 runs at 7600+, but no time for long tests. He is now back to running 7200 as couldnt get 7600 or 7400 stable with longer runs of tm5 or memtest. Seems to error out no matter settings/voltages.





opt33 said:


> have you been able to get 7600 stable for longer testing on z790 hero? have a friend with z790 hero that couldnt get 7200 stable, then bought different 13900k cpu and we tested max frequency booting with short 5-10 minute tm5 runs at 7600+, but no time for long tests. He is now back to running 7200 as couldnt get 7600 or 7400 stable with longer runs of tm5 or memtest. Seems to error out no matter settings/voltages.


Temperature?


----------



## grilli4nt

I've spent 8 hours today trying to get anything above(better) than stock 7200cl34 on the G.SKILL DDR5-7200cl34 kit paired with 13900k and z790 strix-f to work.

Could boot 7600 no problem, but karhu giving error very early has been the story of the day. Played with VDD/VDDQ, IMC VDD, VDDQ TX, SA, in all sorts of combinations (one at the time to try and rule out etc etc), leaning both towards high voltages on the dimms (around 1.6v) with matching high voltages on the VDDQ TX, and also leaning towards stock voltages and lower voltages across the board. Also tried running all CPU voltages at stock pairing with different types of voltages on the dimms. No luck. Scanned this thread in and out for help and information. Tried cl34, also cl36, no luck. If I can take away something from this is that it seems, in general, that throwing more voltages at the dimms has not helped, rather the opposite (while also both trying to match high voltages on IMC / TX vs keeping them a bit lower). Staying closer to 1.4 on the dimms have felt "closest" not to fail.

It seems for me, with this setup, I can't get anything more out of these A-dies than the stock XMP settings. Also tried going down 7200cl32 or even cl30, no luck. So I'll return these kits and stick to the m-die's I have, where I have a stable 6800cl32 profile right now. Guess next up for me would be to get an apex or hero and see if I can get anything more out of it, or just spend some time playing MW2 and forget about this for a second 😅

Edit: I did also some tests (1 hour in total maybe) getting 7400 to work, before giving up and switching back to the m-die sticks.


----------



## Carillo

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> What you guys use PMIC switching freq. auto or 1khz ? I get massive voltage drop stress test
> View attachment 2582004


For stability Auto. Geekbench and other high speed tests 1 to 1,5.


----------



## Ketku-

rs199208 said:


> View attachment 2582022


Tell temps when install is done  ofcourse stress temps.


----------



## opt33

Nizzen said:


> Temperature?


good thought given voltages much higher on 7600, I'll ask him about temps, he does have a ram fan. Once he got 7200 xmp stable on new cpu he was content and onto cpu ocing which he prefers. I was the one trying to get him to do 7600+ stable just out of curiosity, especially since ran short tests fine.


----------



## asdkj1740

TraumatikOC said:


> I know that this isnt amazing , but got 7600 cl 36 on my Gskill kit by using asus hynix 7600 profile then asus tweak 1 setting. Glad i didnt go for Extreme mobo this time , this hero is doing just fine for me.
> 
> If anybody notices tweaks to improve , ill appreciate it.
> 
> View attachment 2582001


maybe we need your timings info first?


----------



## Nizzen

opt33 said:


> good thought given voltages much higher on 7600, I'll ask him about temps, he does have a ram fan. Once he got 7200 xmp stable on new cpu he was content and onto cpu ocing which he prefers. I was the one trying to get him to do 7600+ stable just out of curiosity, especially since ran short tests fine.


It's 100% to high temperature without a ram fan. I'm getting about 48-50c on 25c ambient with a 120mm fan laying over the G.skill 7600 with xmp tweaked 1.4v.


----------



## TraumatikOC

opt33 said:


> have you been able to get 7600 stable for longer testing on z790 hero? have a friend with z790 hero that couldnt get 7200 stable, then bought different 13900k cpu and we tested max frequency booting with short 5-10 minute tm5 runs at 7600+, but no time for long tests. He is now back to running 7200 as couldnt get 7600 or 7400 stable with longer runs of tm5 or memtest. Seems to error out no matter settings/voltages.


I only could test cb23 for about 2 hrs and hwinfo had zero win hardware errors , so far... when i set these settings in bios i ran the full 3 tests of memtest in bios with no errors, when i tried manual ram settings for 7400 i did have 4 errors.
Also i use to have Division 2 crashes when ram unstable , played 2 1/2 hrs no crashes. Also been playing CP2077 with no crashes, thats another game that crashes when i had bad settings.
I just had 7200 stable and ok then asus finally released 0703 and i updated today, so when im bored i will try more tests.


----------



## chibi

rs199208 said:


> View attachment 2582022


Nice kit there! Those thermal pads look very skinny. Is that to cover the memory IC? Or is it for another part?


----------



## Ketku-

Is it better put Thermal Pad between Heatsink - RAM Waterblock or without Thermal Pad? I am thinking this few times.


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> Is it better put Thermal Pad between Heatsink - RAM Waterblock or without Thermal Pad? I am thinking this few times.


Thermal putty or paste is also good. I use 0.5mm on the bitspower, because no need to clean if I'm changing dimms. I do this too often LOL


----------



## Nizzen

Memory OC is meta:

Testing stock 13900k cpu with a small undervolt. 95-98w (95w "TDP" LOL) in BF 2042 MAX cpubound scenario.
250-350 fps in game
8200c34 "max tweaked" and stable.


----------



## rs199208

chibi said:


> Nice kit there! Those thermal pads look very skinny. Is that to cover the memory IC? Or is it for another part?


Shows the pads go on both sides of the dimm in diagram. One piece on the controller. Must be to ensure enough contact pressure. Looks like it covers the dies plenty well enough.


----------



## J_Lab4645

cstkl1 said:


> you just made a statement likes its a universal truth
> and now indirectly saying everything you say has no merit using the guise of "we" as cover.
> 
> funny guy.
> 
> the question should be is adie worth it on air cooling. with mdie limited bandwidth its fine on air. adie. hmm having tested on air vs water. .. water the way to go


Somebody coming from struggling with bad Z690 and 12th gen and moving to RPL and 13th gen. It just works.
Appreciate all you bad-asses and your posts to help the community.
CPU downclocked to P5.0, E4.9, no cache OC. (running test bench w/ crap air cooler)
This is Teamgroup 7200: *FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01*


----------



## rs199208

Ketku- said:


> Tell temps when install is done  ofcourse stress temps.


Gskill 6600 kit XMP voltages auto, cpu stock less E cores.
Tn5/absolute ambient 22C
Dimm 1 maxes out at 31.8C
Dimm 2 maxes out at 30.8C.

Edit: 1hr 7 minutes in #1 is 32.3C and #2 is 31C.
Edit: no errors. 
I fogot that Round trip was enabled and power down was disabled. 
This is my first time stress testing this kit so I don't have anything to compare it.
Though HWINFO64 had glitches with the 7200 kit while stress testing on air like min temp dropped to 16C and max would hit 47.8 after ending a test and i know it wasn't really hitting those temps. No other versions of HWINFO64 fixed this, it kept doing the exact same numbers and glitches.
it's not doing that on this 6600 kit though, yet.


----------



## Agent-A01

rs199208 said:


> Though HWINFO64 had glitches with the 7200 kit while stress testing on air like min temp dropped to 16C and max would hit 47.8 after ending a test and i know it wasn't really hitting those temps. No other versions of HWINFO64 fixed this, it kept doing the exact same numbers and glitches.
> it's not doing that on this 6600 kit though, yet.



I think that's a bug with the temp sensors on those particular M-die kits. A-die might use a different sensor.


----------



## rs199208

Agent-A01 said:


> I think that's a bug with the temp sensors on those particular M-die kits. A-die might use a different sensor.


It was happening on the A die kit.


----------



## rs199208

Working on tightening 6800 up on my 6600 kit. Thinking I might exchange the 7200 kit for a cheaper M die kit. Since I'm waiting to decide on a z790 and probably won't get a 13th gen till KS. I already have a 12900ks, 12900k, 12100. 
I'm happy with the water block. I don't have to worry about heat being a factor anymore. Makes the process much easier.


----------



## xpulse

Hello,
Need some help with new configuration.
I got i7-13700k with ASUS prime z690-p WiFi, ram 16gbx2 gskill z5 6000 Samsung 36-36-36 1.3v.
Can’t make computer boot with 6000 speed at all. 
Only 5200 with some crazy autotiming like 60. Non of 2 xmp allow computer to boot or even bios to post.
Can someone please tell me what I can do? Bough all new in micro center, or maybe return memory and get something cheaper?
I specifically selected Samsung, but seems to be Samsung in ddr5 are not good so far.
Thanks.


----------



## rs199208

xpulse said:


> Hello,
> Need some help with new configuration.
> I got i7-13700k with ASUS prime z690-p WiFi, ram 16gbx2 gskill z5 6000 Samsung 36-36-36 1.3v.
> Can’t make computer boot with 6000 speed at all.
> Only 5200 with some crazy autotiming like 60. Non of 2 xmp allow computer to boot or even bios to post.
> Can someone please tell me what I can do? Bough all new in micro center, or maybe return memory and get something cheaper?
> I specifically selected Samsung, but seems to be Samsung in ddr5 are not good so far.
> Thanks.


Yes, return the samsung module kit. Get gskill hynix M die. 6000 or 6400 cl32.
Which MC is it? I'll look up their stock.
Pretty much everything cl36 is Samsung.

This one is hynix for sure. Idk how 6400 runs on that mb though. 
*F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK S250*

I think this is hynix. Sold out at my MC. 
This would ge best bet with that MB too. 
*F5-6000J3040F16GX2-TZ5RK $230*


----------



## Carillo

xpulse said:


> Hello,
> Need some help with new configuration.
> I got i7-13700k with ASUS prime z690-p WiFi, ram 16gbx2 gskill z5 6000 Samsung 36-36-36 1.3v.
> Can’t make computer boot with 6000 speed at all.
> Only 5200 with some crazy autotiming like 60. Non of 2 xmp allow computer to boot or even bios to post.
> Can someone please tell me what I can do? Bough all new in micro center, or maybe return memory and get something cheaper?
> I specifically selected Samsung, but seems to be Samsung in ddr5 are not good so far.
> Thanks.


The maxium speed i could achieve with z690-p was 5800. I used a golden chip and well binned m-die kit.


----------



## rs199208

Carillo said:


> The maxium speed i could achieve with z690-p was 5800. I used a golden chip and well binned m-die kit.


Was that with a 13th gen?


----------



## Carillo

rs199208 said:


> Was that with a 13th gen?


12th gen, but it makes no difference. The limiting factor was the board, not the IMC.

EDIT: Same IMC did 8000 on Apex z690.


----------



## grilli4nt

So after choosing the M-dies over the A-dies in my case, as I could barely get DDR5-7200 G.skill XMP stable on my z790 strix-f, I'm actually quite happy with these results of a 10k karhu profile on these G.Skill DDR5-6400 cl32 m-dies. Could maybe get more out of this but enough for now! Can't seem to find neither asrock timing configurator nor mem tweakit from asus as they are no where to be seen on their official web pages, tried some older version of asrock timing config but it bugged out. So only have this utility from intel to show timings (some are missing I think).
















Anyone with similar gear that have better results or setups happy to get input to improve further!

Edit: Screenshots of hwinfo just taken directly after the run was stopped so slight drop off in actual temps / load voltages etc..


----------



## xpulse

Carillo said:


> 12th gen, but it makes no difference. The limiting factor was the board, not the IMC.
> 
> EDIT: Same IMC did 8000 on Apex z690.


Interesting part of all this. When I put all together mb from microcenter used old bios 1603 ASUS, and xmp worked because xmp1 and xmp2 bios booted system. After upgrade bios to 4201 nothing boots higher than 5200 with only auto settings. And I can downgrade bios.

will go today to microcenter and return this memory and get new one which even cheaper in 150$. I paid for my set 510$.


----------



## rs199208

xpulse said:


> Interesting part of all this. When I put all together mb from microcenter used old bios 1603 ASUS, and xmp worked because xmp1 and xmp2 bios booted system. After upgrade bios to 4201 nothing boots higher than 5200 with only auto settings. And I can downgrade bios.
> 
> will go today to microcenter and return this memory and get new one which even cheaper in 150$. I paid for my set 510$.


Uh? $510
Which model is that? It's not 2x32 is it?
Or you meant MB plus ram cost $510?


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> So after choosing the M-dies over the A-dies in my case, as I could barely get DDR5-7200 G.skill XMP stable on my z790 strix-f, I'm actually quite happy with these results of a 10k karhu profile on these G.Skill DDR5-6400 cl32 m-dies. Could maybe get more out of this but enough for now! Can't seem to find neither asrock timing configurator nor mem tweakit from asus as they are no where to be seen on their official web pages, tried some older version of asrock timing config but it bugged out. So only have this utility from intel to show timings (some are missing I think).
> View attachment 2582202
> View attachment 2582203
> 
> 
> Anyone with similar gear that have better results or setups happy to get input to improve further!
> 
> Edit: Screenshots of hwinfo just taken directly after the run was stopped so slight drop off in actual temps / load voltages etc..


I found a photo in my folder with a 6600 1T i did with m-die and z690 apex. Try lowering your subs to around the same :


----------



## xpulse

rs199208 said:


> Uh? $510
> Which model is that? It's not 2x32 is it?
> Or you meant MB plus ram cost $510?


Just a ram an only 32gb total.

f5-6000u3636e16gx2-t5rk.


----------



## bhav

Its actually crazy seeing ram finally getting this hot. 

I'm not looking forward to what kind of temperatures 10000+ MT kits will reach.


----------



## rs199208

xpulse said:


> Just a ram an only 32gb total.
> 
> f5-6000u3636e16gx2-t5rk.


I think I had that model in Nov or December. Really bad kit. I must be misunderstanding because that's like less than $200 now or little more.


----------



## rs199208

Carillo said:


> I found a photo in my folder with a 6600 1T i did with m-die and z690 apex. Try lowering your subs to around the same :
> 
> View attachment 2582204


I'm working on my 6600 right now. 1t throwing errors.


----------



## Carillo

rs199208 said:


> I'm working on my 6600 right now. 1t throwing errors.


When i go from 2t to 1t or the other way around, i need to re-flash bios. clear cmos is not enough to get things stable. Also try starting with lower speeds if 1T is your goal. 6200 maby, then work your way up. Remember 1T makes the IMC sweat, so more mc and tx is required.


----------



## rs199208

Carillo said:


> When i go from 2t to 1t or the other way around, i need to re-flash bios. clear cmos is not enough to get things stable. Also try starting with lower speeds if 1T is your goal. 6200 maby, then work your way up. Remember 1T makes the IMC sweat, so more mc and tx is required.


I had trefi too high lol! Copied your wrrd too.


----------



## stahlhart

grilli4nt said:


> So after choosing the M-dies over the A-dies in my case, as I could barely get DDR5-7200 G.skill XMP stable on my z790 strix-f, I'm actually quite happy with these results of a 10k karhu profile on these G.Skill DDR5-6400 cl32 m-dies. Could maybe get more out of this but enough for now! Can't seem to find neither asrock timing configurator nor mem tweakit from asus as they are no where to be seen on their official web pages, tried some older version of asrock timing config but it bugged out. So only have this utility from intel to show timings (some are missing I think).
> View attachment 2582202
> View attachment 2582203
> 
> 
> Anyone with similar gear that have better results or setups happy to get input to improve further!
> 
> Edit: Screenshots of hwinfo just taken directly after the run was stopped so slight drop off in actual temps / load voltages etc..


You can grab the ones that work for RL here.


----------



## rs199208

Carillo said:


> When i go from 2t to 1t or the other way around, i need to re-flash bios. clear cmos is not enough to get things stable. Also try starting with lower speeds if 1T is your goal. 6200 maby, then work your way up. Remember 1T makes the IMC sweat, so more mc and tx is required.


This is where I am right now.


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> I found a photo in my folder with a 6600 1T i did with m-die and z690 apex. Try lowering your subs to around the same :
> 
> View attachment 2582204


Thanks a lot might give it a go! Your latency is sweet there. I copied my timings from another guy who had a similar setup but with z690 and Alder Lake, he said the latency could be because RPL has higher latency, not sure how it works. 

1T vs 2T, big difference?


----------



## tubs2x4

grilli4nt said:


> 1T vs 2T, big difference?


Yea this… is there a real world application can see this difference ?


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> Thanks a lot might give it a go! Your latency is sweet there. I copied my timings from another guy who had a similar setup but with z690 and Alder Lake, he said the latency could be because RPL has higher latency, not sure how it works.
> 
> 1T vs 2T, big difference?


It does affect your E-penis, but i have honestly never compared 1T vs 2T in gaming. The key is to find the sweet spot between latency and bandwidth with what you have. Good luck


----------



## grilli4nt

This solution implemented yesterday dropped me probably around 10c or more during Karhu. Not the prettiest but what the heck 🤷🏼‍♂️ The 4090 just below acting as a blowtorch feeding these sticks scorching hot 500W Call of Duty-air far from ideal but hey, I need them fps 😬 Looking forward for when the time is right to go water..


----------



## robalm

Thinking about upgrade my ddr5 6000mhz cl40 samsung to a good hynix kit.
I found this kit for a good deal, on the amd homepage it shows as hynix (see photo).




__





Kingston Fury Beast RGB KF556C36BBEAK2-32 32GB (16GB x2) DDR5 5600MT/s Non ECC DIMM | Buy Online | MemoryCow | Free UK Delivery


Buy Kingston Fury Beast RGB KF556C36BBEAK2-32 32GB (16GB x2) DDR5 5600MT/s Non ECC DIMM From MemoryCow. FREE UK Delivery & Returns. Est 2008 .




www.memorycow.co.uk




But is it any good, i mean will it overclock any good?
Im not looking for any crasy clocks.
maybe 6200mhz cl 32


----------



## KedarWolf

Anyone know if this has an unlocked PMIC?

*Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5*


Total Capacity: *32GB* (2x16GB)
Memory Profile: 6400MT/s 32-39-39 1.4V
Part Number: KF564C32RSK2-32
Never mind, it's Richtek and it's unlocked.


----------



## rs199208

My bet payed off! I returned the gskill 7200 A die kit in exchange for a new gskill 6400 cl32 M die kit hoping I would get my best ever bandwidth/tightened timings ddr5. And i did... immediately it posted to 7200 with 6400 XMP with all auto MB voltages! Sweet!!! This kit is definitely going under water tonight! And around $150 back in my pocket!


----------



## newls1

rs199208 said:


> My bet payed off! I returned the gskill 7200 A die kit in exchange for a new gskill 6400 cl32 M die kit hoping I would get my best ever bandwidth/tightened timings ddr5. And i did... immediately it posted to 7200 with 6400 XMP with all auto MB voltages! Sweet!!! This kit is definitely going under water tonight! And around $150 back in my pocket!
> View attachment 2582286


there is no way tht is stable @ 1.41v using M-Die @ 7200...... Im now wondering if that is low binned A-Die


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Chintz said:


> Look at the label on the sticks and if they read "820A" it is a die.
> 
> For g.skill
> 
> Lot Code
> -S830A = Micron 16Gbit A-Die
> -S82*A = Hynix 16Gbit A-Die
> -S82*M = Hynix 16Gbit M-Die
> -S810B = Samsung 16Gbit B-Die


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> there is no way tht is stable @ 1.41v using M-Die @ 7200...... Im now wondering if that is low binned A-Die


I didn't mean stable. Just a sign that this kit is something way better than I've ever had yet. The only other thing I did was in memtweakit I started dropping the primary timings and it just kept going lol! So it's definitely M die.
Dimms already stripped, cleaned, and water block heatsinks installed not in rig yet. I'll play around with it a bit tonight. I have no idea where to start though.


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> there is no way tht is stable @ 1.41v using M-Die @ 7200...... Im now wondering if that is low binned A-Die


Oh I meant it immediately booted to 7200 by me just on a whim choosing the frequency. I had just turned it on.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

rs199208 said:


> Oh I meant it immediately booted to 7200 by me just on a whim choosing the frequency. I had just turned it on.


Not sure if M-die or A-Die?

Just read my previous quote.


----------



## rs199208

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Not sure if M-die or A-Die?
> 
> Just read my previous quote.


No, I know it's m die. I'm just elated I may of finally got a good bin! Plus I'm pumped on caffeine...


----------



## narrn2761

I have TeidentZ 2x16GB 6600 C34 DDR5 RAM.
I can use XMP1 on my Z690 Strix E motherboard, but I cannot use XMP2, keeps crashing. What is the difference?

Also, my 12900K is completly stock speeds, does this matter?


----------



## KedarWolf

I looked at the label from a review. 820M


----------



## cstkl1

G.SKILL - F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0801

[email protected]
[email protected]

HCI proper 1000%

Settings for 8000C32/8200C34/8200C32
Google Drive: Sign-in
Google Drive: Sign-in





0801-M15A-8200C32.CMO







drive.google.com





*Caution i am using my own LLC AC/DC setting and my daily which is disable usb sound/wifi/ptt/secure boot key/vtd/vmd etc.


----------



## seranidy

OS is currently not as efficient as it should be, but pretty good result nonetheless


----------



## justpete

Anyone have a beta 0099 for Z790 Extreme? I'm running a 13900k.

I have the Green 081N sticks at 26C under load. Any recommendations of where to start with this kit in terms of Voltages and Timings? Looking for some decent timings for 7200 upto 8000 (unlikely I know).


----------



## roooo

Is there any info as to whether we're going to see a BIOS update for the Z690 Hero that will allow better support for 7200+ anytime soon? Maybe some magic Beta BIOS available somewhere?


Cheers,
r.


----------



## Nizzen

justpete said:


> Anyone have a beta 0099 for Z790 Extreme? I'm running a 13900k.
> 
> I have the Green 081N sticks at 26C under load. Any recommendations of where to start with this kit in terms of Voltages and Timings? Looking for some decent timings for 7200 upto 8000 (unlikely I know).


Try 0801 

Even newer









ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-EXTREME-ASUS-0801.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Word_Up71

*12900K & Kingston Fury Beast KF560C40BBK2-32 & MSI Unify-X Z690 --> Wall @ 6600.
With 13700KF now easy reach 7000CL30. That's enough for me. 
RL have much better memory controller.








*


----------



## grilli4nt

I was happy with my m-die 6800cl32 profile but I wanted rgb so I picked up a new pair of the exact same modules (at least so I thought), but when I got home I saw they read 820A. G.SKILL F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK. So they are now getting A-dies out there also for the 6400 kits? Exciting! These kits were exactly priced the same as the other kit which were 820M. Have had no time to play with these ones yet but currently just a casual 7000cl32 with stock timings and stock voltages, only modified tRefi (65k) and Trfc. Currently on 15 mins in Karhu no problem so far. Will get back with more results once I've had the time to play with them properly, just wanted to post this as I wasnt aware A-dies comes in 6400-kits.


----------



## db000

- deleted


----------



## rulik006

db000 said:


> F5-6400J3239G16G*X*2-TZ5RK = M-die
> F5-6400J3239G16G*A*2-TZ5RK = A-die


BS, this is not related anyhow


Spoiler: GX2 A-die


----------



## acoustic

db000 said:


> F5-6400J3239G16G*X*2-TZ5RK = M-die
> F5-6400J3239G16G*A*2-TZ5RK = A-die


No. X and A are designations between who is selling the product, not A/M die. The only way to tell if it's A or M is by looking at the last letter on the stick label - 820A = A Die / 820M = M Die.


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> there is no way tht is stable @ 1.41v using M-Die @ 7200...... Im now wondering if that is low binned A-Die





grilli4nt said:


> I was happy with my m-die 6800cl32 profile but I wanted rgb so I picked up a new pair of the exact same modules (at least so I thought), but when I got home I saw they read 820A. G.SKILL F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK. So they are now getting A-dies out there also for the 6400 kits? Exciting! These kits were exactly priced the same as the other kit which were 820M. Have had no time to play with these ones yet but currently just a casual 7000cl32 with stock timings and stock voltages, only modified tRefi (65k) and Trfc. Currently on 15 mins in Karhu no problem so far. Will get back with more results once I've had the time to play with them properly, just wanted to post this as I wasnt aware A-dies comes in 6400-kits.
> 
> View attachment 2582398
> View attachment 2582399


Crap! I never checked the code last night. I did get A die. Lol! I wanted M die to tighten up. I just wasted $250....


----------



## justpete

TraumatikOC said:


> I know that this isnt amazing , but got 7600 cl 36 on my Gskill kit by using asus hynix 7600 profile then asus tweak 1 setting. Glad i didnt go for Extreme mobo this time , this hero is doing just fine for me.
> 
> If anybody notices tweaks to improve , ill appreciate it.
> 
> View attachment 2582001


Thanks!!! Could you screenshot all the Memory Sub Timings and Voltages in the BIOS?


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> I was happy with my m-die 6800cl32 profile but I wanted rgb so I picked up a new pair of the exact same modules (at least so I thought), but when I got home I saw they read 820A. G.SKILL F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK. So they are now getting A-dies out there also for the 6400 kits? Exciting! These kits were exactly priced the same as the other kit which were 820M. Have had no time to play with these ones yet but currently just a casual 7000cl32 with stock timings and stock voltages, only modified tRefi (65k) and Trfc. Currently on 15 mins in Karhu no problem so far. Will get back with more results once I've had the time to play with them properly, just wanted to post this as I wasnt aware A-dies comes in 6400-kits.
> 
> View attachment 2582398
> View attachment 2582399


I was running 7000 on the kit also stock everything but a couple errors in tm5/absolute after 20 minutes i think. 
Does this mean the modules are exactly the same as the 7200 kit I returned?


----------



## cstkl1

G.SKILL - F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0801

8400 [email protected] 
*48-48 requires 1.58 only 

HCI 1000% TM5
memtest86, karhu all stable

0801-M15A-8400C34.CMO

*Caution i am using my own LLC AC/DC setting and my daily which is disable usb sound/wifi/ptt/secure boot key/vtd/vmd etc.


----------



## justpete

Kinda wishing I purchased an Z790 Apex ...sigh. My tuned M-die at 6000 CL28 was better on my now sold Z690 Extreme than this Z790 Extreme with Green Stick A-Die lmao. Insane waste of $2000 CDN with ram so far. Asus, would you kindly trade-in my Extreme for an Apex...I'll take the loss!!! Lol


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> G.SKILL - F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0801
> 
> 8400 [email protected]
> *48-48 requires 1.58 only
> 
> HCI 1000% TM5
> memtest86, karhu all stable
> 
> 0801-M15A-8400C34.CMO
> 
> *Caution i am using my own LLC AC/DC setting and my daily which is disable usb sound/wifi/ptt/secure boot key/vtd/vmd etc.


DA BEAST!!! 😎


----------



## cstkl1

ok guys. here ends my ddr5 adie oc. 8400 requires tfaw 24 which i totally despise
heading to marginal diff vs 8200 since its now ram getting faster than imc.

those who has z790 apex can learn everything i know on adie. just by seeing each profile what changed, voltage relation etc.

i advice ppl to test with memtest86 in bios first. tm5 a joke on z790 apex.


----------



## 673714

justpete said:


> Kinda wishing I purchased an Z790 Apex ...sigh. My tuned M-die at 6000 CL28 was better on my now sold Z690 Extreme than this Z790 Extreme with Green Stick A-Die lmao. Insane waste of $2000 CDN with ram so far. Asus, would you kindly trade-in my Extreme for an Apex...I'll take the loss!!! Lol


Sorry for your waste of $$
I actually asked them to send me an Apex instead when I did my Z690 Extreme RMA. They wouldn't do it


----------



## TraumatikOC

justpete said:


> Thanks!!! Could you screenshot all the Memory Sub Timings and Voltages in the BIOS?


All i did was set xmp 1 then use asus preset memory for 7600 option in bios and set the asus tweak setting to mode 1. I didnt do any manual tweaks.


----------



## justpete

TraumatikOC said:


> All i did was set xmp 1 then use asus preset memory for 7600 option in bios and set the asus tweak setting to mode 1. I didnt do any manual tweaks.


 Thank you. Have you tried running TestMem5 with the ABSOLUT @anta777 profile? That's where I continuously fail...infact I fail at 7400 on my Extreme board. I haven't tried tweak mode 1 however. I'll give that a shot. I'm running the generic 081N green Sticks. My SP is 99. Ring is at 5.1. E Core 4.6


----------



## satinghostrider

justpete said:


> Thank you. Have you tried running TestMem5 with the ABSOLUT @anta777 profile? That's where I continuously fail...infact I fail at 7400 on my Extreme board. I haven't tried tweak mode 1 however. I'll give that a shot. I'm running the generic 081N green Sticks. My SP is 99. Ring is at 5.1. E Core 4.6


Looks more likely that you have a weak IMC on your CPU that doesn't allow you running higher frequencies than you already can lower. I would suggest keeping CPU stock when running ram overclock untill you find the spot you're happy at then move to CPU overclock.


----------



## TraumatikOC

justpete said:


> Thank you. Have you tried running TestMem5 with the ABSOLUT @anta777 profile? That's where I continuously fail...infact I fail at 7400 on my Extreme board. I haven't tried tweak mode 1 however. I'll give that a shot. I'm running the generic 081N green Sticks. My SP is 99. Ring is at 5.1. E Core 4.6


Nope, just use memtest in bios, or memtest 10 on usb stick. If that passes then i load Divison2 and play for couple hrs which seems to crash if pc not setup stable. Also CP2077 seems to crash also if pc not setup good. And cb23 for 30 min tests and no errors in hwinfo is good for me. Not chasing records just a tuned stable pc for me.


----------



## justpete

TraumatikOC said:


> Nope, just use memtest in bios, or memtest 10 on usb stick. If that passes then i load Divison2 and play for couple hrs which seems to crash if pc not setup stable. Also CP2077 seems to crash also if pc not setup good. And cb23 for 30 min tests and no errors in hwinfo is good for me. Not chasing records just a tuned stable pc for me.


I'm not chasing records either, however I do find that if I dont pass TM5 (Absolut) I occasionally have lost stability in games after multiple hours. IE/ Halo Infinite, CP2077. I'll give Division 2 a try now as well. Had no idea it was a demanding title.


----------



## db000

rulik006 said:


> BS, this is not related anyhow
> 
> 
> Spoiler: GX2 A-die


My bad, thanks for correcting. Will remove. All five of my 6400CL32 M-die kits I've purchased was GX2. @acustic


----------



## rs199208

db000 said:


> My bad, thanks for correcting. Will remove. All five of my 6400CL32 M-die kits I've purchased was GX2. @acustic


The A stands for gskills store on Amazon. Gskill explains this on their site. So everywhere else is X.


----------



## Dodgexander

Does anyone have any advice for me?
I'm struggling with random reboots when testing ram stability over long sessions. At first, I thought this was just from an unstable overclock, but the reboots happen even with XMP settings.
When using HWInfo I notice that sometimes my VDD voltage (SWA) will drop between 50mv to 135mv. It seems to happen more when idle, but I just tested running HCI Memtest and it happens during the test too.

These random reboots can sometimes happen after 2 hours of testing, and sometimes after 10 hours, so the problem is not easy to repeat. I will set HCI memtest overnight or when I'm at work and find the computer has restarted later. There are absolutely no issues with stability in my testing during usage outside of testing and I can pass TM5 tests fine usually, although I do think the system rebooted once with that test.

There's no indication of errors in logs when I look after it happens, nor in windows event viewer..only a message about the system rebooting without cleanly shutting down first.

What's the best way forward to test? Increase voltage beyond XMP spec and test then?
Run the tests without XMP just using JDEC standard timings?
Is the drop in voltage normal or should it stay always steady?

I have already reset all settings to default in BIOS and simply applied my XMP profile. I have the Asrock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4 with a 12700k and there's not bios setting to disable power down mode, only gear down mode. I have crappy 5200 CL40 Micron ram.

EDIT* added screenshots:


----------



## Mainstream

Coming from AMD, seems I had issues with F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS booting XMP I at stock 6400 unless running 1.5V+ . Looks at some of these screen shots my config seems to be less efferent than others. At this point, is this a common thin on these new intel boards?


----------



## rs199208

Mainstream said:


> Coming from AMD, seems I had issues with F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS booting XMP I at stock 6400 unless running 1.5V+ . Looks at some of these screen shots my config seems to be less efferent than others. At this point, is this a common thin on these new intel boards?


Did you check if it's A or M die? 
I think some MB had to get a bios update to run the newer A die? I could be wrong on this.
going forward it's good to know which die anyway. 
Check your bios version and if there are any bios updates available no matter the ram die. 
Make sure everything in bios is stock settings so try resetting bios to default, this could help narrow down a issue. 
To check which hynix module it is read the label on the heatsinks. 820A = A die 820M =M die.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

@7000Mhz M-Die:


----------



## gtz

Decided to post here since I have a few questions about DDR5 voltages.

Since BIOS 2.03 my EVGA Classified is acting like a new board, overclocks RAM like never before. Even with the 13900K I was stuck at 6200 on older BIOS.

Similar to my old 12900KF build with a Z690 Master, that too did not go much past 6200.

So I never had experience with higher RAM OCs so I never had to push the voltage. With the new BIOS I am currently running 6600 on my cheapo Team Group kit. I need around 1.42-1.44v on all the VDD/VDDQ voltages.


























But I can also stabilize at 7200 with similar timings. Only difference is I need 1.54/1.565 on the DRAM VDD/VDDQ and 1.49 on both CPU VDD2/VDDQ. Are those voltages safe for long term use?

I just only wish I purchased a Z690 Dark back when they were 475 new. But don't regret this classy anymore with the new BIOS.

Thanks


----------



## seranidy

gtz said:


> Decided to post here since I have a few questions about DDR5 voltages.
> 
> Since BIOS 2.03 my EVGA Classified is acting like a new board, overclocks RAM like never before. Even with the 13900K I was stuck at 6200 on older BIOS.
> 
> Similar to my old 12900KF build with a Z690 Master, that too did not go much past 6200.
> 
> So I never had experience with higher RAM OCs so I never had to push the voltage. With the new BIOS I am currently running 6600 on my cheapo Team Group kit. I need around 1.42-1.44v on all the VDD/VDDQ voltages.
> 
> View attachment 2582516
> 
> View attachment 2582515
> 
> View attachment 2582517
> 
> 
> But I can also stabilize at 7200 with similar timings. Only difference is I need 1.54/1.565 on the DRAM VDD/VDDQ and 1.49 on both CPU VDD2/VDDQ. Are those voltages safe for long term use?
> 
> I just only wish I purchased a Z690 Dark back when they were 475 new. But don't regret this classy anymore with the new BIOS.
> 
> Thanks


I very much doubt you need 1.49 on both cpu vddq and vdd2.

1.54/1.565 memory vdd/q is safe for daily


----------



## rs199208

Ran a quick experiment with the 6400 A die kit. Wanted to see how close I could get to my 6600 M die kit latency in Intel MLC never mind stress testing.
Got the A die at 6600 32 38 38 28 2N down to 47+ idle latency so far. Cpu is running at 53 all core and ring is 50.
Round trip latency enabled, and idle down or whatever it's called (forgot) is disabled.
If I can figure out the best voltages for this kit is then i might get even lower latencies.
Trrd won't go as low as my M die. Rtls won't hit those lows either. Couple others same way but some went lower than my M die.
Aida64 hits 48.8 latency. Might go lower if I took more time clicking it lol!
Only voltages changed so far is dimm unlinked
Vdd 1.47
Vddq 1.42
Rest are auto. My mb changes SA when auto from 1.4 to 1.45 depending on frequency. It's at 1.4 auto now. I don't worry about it since I'm direct die.
Edit: I started Tm5/absolute and it's lasting way longer than I assumed it would without a error lol! So ramping up fans and letting it go for awhile as is.


----------



## sugi0lover

my final stable 8400 cl32 setup
32-46-46 was not stable, so did stable 32-47-46.

○ CPU : 13900K / all cores P Cores 6.0Ghz / E Cores 4.7Ghz / Cache 5.0Ghz
○ Ram : DDR5-5600 SK Hynix (A-Die)
○ Ram OC : 8400MT/s-32-47-46-32-480-2T
○ MB : Z790 Apex (Bios 0801)
○ Voltages : VDD 1.74 / VDDQ 1.695 / VDDQ TX 1.40(auto) / MC 1.51 / SA 1.12 / VPP 1.80(auto)
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)


----------



## rs199208

sugi0lover said:


> my final stable 8400 cl32 setup
> 32-46-46 was not stable, so did stable 32-47-46.
> 
> ○ CPU : 13900K / all cores P Cores 6.0Ghz / E Cores 4.7Ghz / Cache 5.0Ghz
> ○ Ram : DDR5-5600 SK Hynix (A-Die)
> ○ Ram OC : 8400MT/s-32-47-46-32-480-2T
> ○ MB : Z790 Apex (Bios 0801)
> ○ Voltages : VDD 1.74 / VDDQ 1.695 / VDDQ TX 1.40(auto) / MC 1.51 / SA 1.12 / VPP 1.80(auto)
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2582544
> 
> View attachment 2582545


Wow!


----------



## cstkl1

sorry took down the 8400 profile. also it had a experimental skew that requires SA high but geekbench 5 doesnt like it.

got a better one coming 47-47 1.58v with tfaw 16 skew auto


----------



## Carillo

Dodgexander said:


> Does anyone have any advice for me?
> I'm struggling with random reboots when testing ram stability over long sessions. At first, I thought this was just from an unstable overclock, but the reboots happen even with XMP settings.
> When using HWInfo I notice that sometimes my VDD voltage (SWA) will drop between 50mv to 135mv. It seems to happen more when idle, but I just tested running HCI Memtest and it happens during the test too.
> 
> These random reboots can sometimes happen after 2 hours of testing, and sometimes after 10 hours, so the problem is not easy to repeat. I will set HCI memtest overnight or when I'm at work and find the computer has restarted later. There are absolutely no issues with stability in my testing during usage outside of testing and I can pass TM5 tests fine usually, although I do think the system rebooted once with that test.
> 
> There's no indication of errors in logs when I look after it happens, nor in windows event viewer..only a message about the system rebooting without cleanly shutting down first.
> 
> What's the best way forward to test? Increase voltage beyond XMP spec and test then?
> Run the tests without XMP just using JDEC standard timings?
> Is the drop in voltage normal or should it stay always steady?
> 
> I have already reset all settings to default in BIOS and simply applied my XMP profile. I have the Asrock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4 with a 12700k and there's not bios setting to disable power down mode, only gear down mode. I have crappy 5200 CL40 Micron ram.
> 
> EDIT* added screenshots:
> View attachment 2582498
> 
> View attachment 2582499



In my experience, random reboots during memory testing is 99% of the time related to too low MC voltage.


----------



## cstkl1

scratch that [email protected] 🤣


----------



## TraumatikOC

justpete said:


> I'm not chasing records either, however I do find that if I dont pass TM5 (Absolut) I occasionally have lost stability in games after multiple hours. IE/ Halo Infinite, CP2077. I'll give Division 2 a try now as well. Had no idea it was a demanding title.


Not saying its demanding , it was something i just noticed. Might just be my setup?.?.


----------



## rs199208

Made a error then deleted post.


----------



## bash13r

Wow, you guys are talking about 8400mhz ram speeds! 😬

I'm still struggling to get my 4x32gb ddr5 5600mhz to work. When I enable xmp, it gives me a black screen. I've read about upping the VDD & VDDQ voltages. I'm waiting on a 13900k cpu, then will experiment. 

These are my pc specs:
MB: Asus Z690 Maximus hero
RAM: 128gb (4x32gb) g.skill Trident 5600mhz ddr5
2x Samsung nmve 1tb 980 pro
Cpu: i9-12900 (swap to 13900k) 
Gpu: Gigabyte 3080 Ti Eagle oc
Cooler: Gigabyte waterforce 360
Case: CM TD500 mesh
Psu: Corsair HX1000

Do you guys have any tips to get my 2x64gb kits running? 

I think I'll first try with 1kit, if I get my speeds without errors, I'll then try the other kit. 

Do you guys know of anyone running 4x32gb at 5600mhz?


----------



## Carillo

So I got a new sett of G.skill 7600C36 today, and here is some quick testing on water using the latest 0801 bios 

8600 C34 1,64VDD/Q


----------



## rs199208

bash13r said:


> Wow, you guys are talking about 8400mhz ram speeds! 😬
> 
> I'm still struggling to get my 4x32gb ddr5 5600mhz to work. When I enable xmp, it gives me a black screen. I've read about upping the VDD & VDDQ voltages. I'm waiting on a 13900k cpu, then will experiment.
> 
> These are my pc specs:
> MB: Asus Z690 Maximus hero
> RAM: 128gb (4x32gb) g.skill Trident 5600mhz ddr5
> 2x Samsung nmve 1tb 980 pro
> Cpu: i9-12900 (swap to 13900k)
> Gpu: Gigabyte 3080 Ti Eagle oc
> Cooler: Gigabyte waterforce 360
> Case: CM TD500 mesh
> Psu: Corsair HX1000
> 
> Do you guys have any tips to get my 2x64gb kits running?
> 
> I think I'll first try with 1kit, if I get my speeds without errors, I'll then try the other kit.
> 
> Do you guys know of anyone running 4x32gb at 5600mhz?


Idk if there are any Z690 MB that can run that beyond what you already have. Some of the Z790 probably can.
Did you mean 4x16? That's hard enough on z690 let alone 4x32!
Dual rank ddr5 sticks are very hard on the memory controller so yes 13th gen is best for that but running 4 of them is a MB issue too...


----------



## Merkor

rs199208 said:


> So none of the press releases in September stated that the new 6400 was going to be A die? No one was talking about it anywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill announces DDR5-6800 CL32 and DDR5-6400 CL32 Trident Z5 memory - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Announces DDR5-6800 CL32 2x16GB and DDR5-6400 CL32 2x32GB Trident Z5 RGB Memory Kits (22 September 2022) – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading brand of performance overclock memory and PC components, is excited to announce two new extreme overclocked...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


There are both versions. I received F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K made in October. Serial ends with 820A --> A-Die. So the newer builds seem to carry A-Die, but I also saw 6400 from October with M-Die. 6600 and above should be A-Die for sure...


----------



## rs199208

Merkor said:


> There are both versions. I received F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K made in October. Serial ends with 820A --> A-Die. So the newer builds seem to carry A-Die, but I also saw 6400 from October with M-Die. 6600 and above should be A-Die for sure...


Yes, I know I had the 6400 M die earlier this year and sold it. Now I have the 6400 A die. I'm just surprised no one knew about this before we started buying them to find out afterwards.
Also my 6600 kit is M die.
How are we ever going to know which die we are getting unless purchasing in a brick & mortar like microcenter to view the label.


----------



## tubs2x4

Dodgexander said:


> Does anyone have any advice for me?
> I'm struggling with random reboots when testing ram stability over long sessions. At first, I thought this was just from an unstable overclock, but the reboots happen even with XMP settings.
> When using HWInfo I notice that sometimes my VDD voltage (SWA) will drop between 50mv to 135mv. It seems to happen more when idle, but I just tested running HCI Memtest and it happens during the test too.
> 
> These random reboots can sometimes happen after 2 hours of testing, and sometimes after 10 hours, so the problem is not easy to repeat. I will set HCI memtest overnight or when I'm at work and find the computer has restarted later. There are absolutely no issues with stability in my testing during usage outside of testing and I can pass TM5 tests fine usually, although I do think the system rebooted once with that test.
> 
> There's no indication of errors in logs when I look after it happens, nor in windows event viewer..only a message about the system rebooting without cleanly shutting down first.
> 
> What's the best way forward to test? Increase voltage beyond XMP spec and test then?
> Run the tests without XMP just using JDEC standard timings?
> Is the drop in voltage normal or should it stay always steady?
> 
> I have already reset all settings to default in BIOS and simply applied my XMP profile. I have the Asrock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4 with a 12700k and there's not bios setting to disable power down mode, only gear down mode. I have crappy 5200 CL40 Micron ram.
> 
> EDIT* added screenshots:
> View attachment 2582498
> 
> View attachment 2582499


Hit the clear cmos button, get latest bios and run all stock and use system normally. If no reboots then try xmp. If reboots still maybe something with power supply?


----------



## rs199208

By the way the 6400 gskill kit is currently on sale on newegg for $219. But as i said there is absolutely no way to tell beforehand which die you will get until it arrives.


----------



## TraumatikOC

bash13r said:


> Wow, you guys are talking about 8400mhz ram speeds! 😬
> 
> I'm still struggling to get my 4x32gb ddr5 5600mhz to work. When I enable xmp, it gives me a black screen. I've read about upping the VDD & VDDQ voltages. I'm waiting on a 13900k cpu, then will experiment.
> 
> These are my pc specs:
> MB: Asus Z690 Maximus hero
> RAM: 128gb (4x32gb) g.skill Trident 5600mhz ddr5
> 2x Samsung nmve 1tb 980 pro
> Cpu: i9-12900 (swap to 13900k)
> Gpu: Gigabyte 3080 Ti Eagle oc
> Cooler: Gigabyte waterforce 360
> Case: CM TD500 mesh
> Psu: Corsair HX1000
> Do you guys have any tips to get my 2x64gb kits running?
> I think I'll first try with 1kit, if I get my speeds without errors, I'll then try the other kit.
> Do you guys know of anyone running 4x32gb at 5600mhz?


Dont know if you tried this, go into bios , find the option to change the PMIC Voltage mode from "Sync ALL" to "Per PMIC" , also upping IMC voltages, theres youtube and guides if needed.


----------



## centvalny

Rerun 8800c36 air bios 0099


----------



## bash13r

rs199208 said:


> Idk if there are any Z690 MB that can run that beyond what you already have. Some of the Z790 probably can.
> Did you mean 4x16? That's hard enough on z690 let alone 4x32!
> Dual rank ddr5 sticks are very hard on the memory controller so yes 13th gen is best for that but running 4 of them is a MB issue too...


I did mean 4x32gb 😄. I haven't tried anything yet, if I only get 2x32gb to work, I'll be happy.



TraumatikOC said:


> Dont know if you tried this, go into bios , find the option to change the PMIC Voltage mode from "Sync ALL" to "Per PMIC" , also upping IMC voltages, theres youtube and guides if needed.


Thank you. I will try those. I'm hoping with the 13900k the IMC will be stronger & hopefully I get it to work.


----------



## owikh84

owikh84 said:


> 13900K SP101 (P110/E83) - P55/E43/R45
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2103
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Iceman Cooler heatspreaders
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7600 36-45-45-30-2T
> VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.45V | SA 1.15V | MC 1.40V*
> View attachment 2577898


New CPU, RAM, mobo BIOS, same timings. Just the SA needs 1.175v and lower MC 1.35v.

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83) - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2201
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heasinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7600 36-45-45-30-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.45V | SA 1.175V | MC 1.35V*


----------



## Dodgexander

Carillo said:


> In my experience, random reboots during memory testing is 99% of the time related to too low MC voltage.


If I have the right number I think the IMC voltage is default 1.1v and seems to stay that way with XMP set. I will try higher, thank you.


tubs2x4 said:


> Hit the clear cmos button, get latest bios and run all stock and use system normally. If no reboots then try xmp. If reboots still maybe something with power supply?


thanks, I will give this a go. I did already leave the board at default settings overnight and it didn't restart the test (JEDEC 4800) but 8h test is sometimes not enough. I will do tests today later when I'm at work, and overnight tonight.

-----------------

Is the VDD voltage fluctuation normal or should the voltage be completely static?
This is what happened on the last run before the random reboot after I set my memory VDD voltage to 1.35.









The power supply is the Platinum Corsair SFX750.

I am also lost with comparing Asrock names of voltages to people on here. Does someone have a translation?
In the BIOS there is CPU VDD IMC and CPU VDD voltages.
In HWInfo I think that CPU VDD IMC = VDDQ TX but I am not 100% sure. Is this correct?

How does this compare when you guys are posting screenshots of your settings on MSI and Asus boards?
MC=CPU VDD IMC?
VDDQ TX=CPU VDD?

There are also some advance VDDQ TX settings in the Asrock Z790i TB4 BIOS.
Here's a HWINFO screenshot after I set both CPU VDD IMC and CPU VDD to 1.3v:


















EDIT* here's my BIOS screenshots:
















Which is which?


----------



## tibcsi0407

Dodgexander said:


> Does anyone have any advice for me?
> I'm struggling with random reboots when testing ram stability over long sessions. At first, I thought this was just from an unstable overclock, but the reboots happen even with XMP settings.
> When using HWInfo I notice that sometimes my VDD voltage (SWA) will drop between 50mv to 135mv. It seems to happen more when idle, but I just tested running HCI Memtest and it happens during the test too.
> 
> These random reboots can sometimes happen after 2 hours of testing, and sometimes after 10 hours, so the problem is not easy to repeat. I will set HCI memtest overnight or when I'm at work and find the computer has restarted later. There are absolutely no issues with stability in my testing during usage outside of testing and I can pass TM5 tests fine usually, although I do think the system rebooted once with that test.
> 
> There's no indication of errors in logs when I look after it happens, nor in windows event viewer..only a message about the system rebooting without cleanly shutting down first.
> 
> What's the best way forward to test? Increase voltage beyond XMP spec and test then?
> Run the tests without XMP just using JDEC standard timings?
> Is the drop in voltage normal or should it stay always steady?
> 
> I have already reset all settings to default in BIOS and simply applied my XMP profile. I have the Asrock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4 with a 12700k and there's not bios setting to disable power down mode, only gear down mode. I have crappy 5200 CL40 Micron ram.
> 
> EDIT* added screenshots:
> View attachment 2582498
> 
> View attachment 2582499


You should raise the Tx voltage. At least 1.3V should be fine.


----------



## justpete

Would love to see some performance scaling benchmarks on MW2 from say 7600 to 8600 for those of you lucky enough to have an Apex


----------



## rs199208

justpete said:


> Would love to see some performance scaling benchmarks on MW2 from say 7600 to 8600 for those of you lucky enough to have an Apex


I would think 7000 and under with tightened timings would be the best at gaming.
Or I should say the easiest to max gaming at under 7000.


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Rerun 8800c36 air bios 0099
> View attachment 2582567


Nice run!

Care to share voltages and temperatures?


----------



## rs199208

Merkor said:


> There are both versions. I received F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K made in October. Serial ends with 820A --> A-Die. So the newer builds seem to carry A-Die, but I also saw 6400 from October with M-Die. 6600 and above should be A-Die for sure...


I mistakenly used a press release about the dual rank version not the single rank 6400 A die. My bad...


----------



## rs199208

Well, I finally started getting bored with yeeting the timings and now settling down to find stable OC frequencies to base a tightened up profile on.
12900ks msi unify x
cpu: all core 5.3.
Ring 5.0.
E cores disabled all voltages default auto etc..
Ram : frequency 6800 using its stock auto 6400 A die settings and voltages.
round trip latency enabled and power down disabled in bios memory settings. Pased 141 minutes of TM5/Absolute running 16 threads on memory. Running windows 11 memory diagnostic now.
Edit: Windows memory diagnostic passed with that profile.


----------



## WhiteOne

Hi there, what can I expect from these modules (36-39-39-76 1.30v)? is it 100% M Die?


----------



## Dodgexander

tibcsi0407 said:


> You should raise the Tx voltage. At least 1.3V should be fine.


Is this VDD IMC or just VDD CPU in my BIOS?
If you see my last post there's some screenshots of the Asrock BIOS:








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Wow, you guys are talking about 8400mhz ram speeds! 😬 I'm still struggling to get my 4x32gb ddr5 5600mhz to work. When I enable xmp, it gives me a black screen. I've read about upping the VDD & VDDQ voltages. I'm waiting on a 13900k cpu, then will experiment. These are my pc specs: MB: Asus...




www.overclock.net


----------



## bscool

WhiteOne said:


> Hi there, what can I expect from these modules (36-39-39-76 1.30v)? is it 100% M Die?
> View attachment 2582635


Could be Samsung too. I havent kept up with what Corsair is using more of but I wouldnt count on anything being 100%. They/gskill are even mixing A die into lower bins(6400c32) now.

So even if someone has the same kit or you read a review on it what you receive could be different.


----------



## grilli4nt

rs199208 said:


> Crap! I never checked the code last night. I did get A die. Lol! I wanted M die to tighten up. I just wasted $250....


I've tried to googling the big difference between M-die and A-die, as I now have one pair of each and need to decice which to keep (both pair xmp rates 6400cl32, one M-die one A-die). Am I right that A-dies could reach higher clocks, but with higher timings? What about if we talk comparable freqs, lets say running both at 6800, would M kit have lower timings?


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> I've tried to googling the big difference between M-die and A-die, as I now have one pair of each and need to decice which to keep (both pair xmp rates 6400cl32, one M-die one A-die). Am I right that A-dies could reach higher clocks, but with higher timings? What about if we talk comparable freqs, lets say running both at 6800, would M kit have lower timings?


I was assuming so. Even Buildzoid thinks so but he isn't in the cutting edge or so called every new thing immediately rarely pushing hardware to the limits because he is patient and don't have time to deal with non stop errors lol!
I'm guessing for him...

I wish I still had my m die 6400 kit. I'm going tonight to microcenter to get a rebate on my 6400 A die kit with the newegg price match they cover that even after purchasing.
While there I'll check out their remaining stock for A die and M die 6400 if I can.

By the way 7000 is hour stable in tm5/absolute so far with 6400 A die settings/voltages. Absolutely nothing else changed pertaining to ram and cpu/ring from last update.


----------



## grilli4nt

rs199208 said:


> I was assuming so. Even Buildzoid thinks so but he isn't in the cutting edge or so called every new thing immediately rarely pushing hardware to the limits because he is patient and don't have time to deal with non stop errors lol!
> I'm guessing for him...
> 
> I wish I still had my m die 6400 kit. I'm going tonight to microcenter to get a rebate on my 6400 A die kit with the newegg price match they cover that even after purchasing.
> While there I'll check out their remaining stock for A die and M die 6400 if I can.


Ok interesting. I thought A-dies were "better", hence more expensive. But then got this kit at the same price and saw your comments so maybe i've misunderstood.


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> Ok interesting. I thought A-dies were "better", hence more expensive. But then got this kit at the same price and saw your comments so maybe i've misunderstood.


Yeah, gskill 6400 rgb 2x16 $219 newegg that has to be a great deal if can claim A die version!!


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> Ok interesting. I thought A-dies were "better", hence more expensive. But then got this kit at the same price and saw your comments so maybe i've misunderstood.


I also don't want to get caught up in a hardware version that I'll regret on 13th gen z790 so I'm very interested in finding out if these can be best at everything without losing much performance on either side. Maybe, Hynix thinks this because supposedly, there is a "rumor" hearsay going around that M die is End Of Life..


----------



## WhiteOne

bscool said:


> Could be Samsung too. I havent kept up with what Corsair is using more of but I wouldnt count on anything being 100%. They/gskill are even mixing A die into lower bins(6400c32) now.
> 
> So even if someone has the same kit or you read a review on it what you receive could be different.


Samsung could do above 6000?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

MrTOOSHORT said:


> @7000Mhz M-Die:
> 
> View attachment 2582506


This is where I'm sitting stable right now maybe it'll help you settings wise to improve.


----------



## bscool

WhiteOne said:


> Samsung could do above 6000?


I dont know about XMP but I have seen people oc samsung to 6800 to 7000. I guess the only way to know is buy them and find out. I would think there is a good chance they are m die.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

bscool said:


> I dont know about XMP but I have seen people oc samsung to 6800 to 7000. I guess the only way to know is buy them and find out. I would think there is a good chance they are m die.


I'm clocking my 6400 tforce up to 7400 2t successfully with my new 13900k.


----------



## RosaPanteren

Hi

Looking for recommendation on a build with a 13700kf as this is will be the first build with ddr5 and for Intel platform in a while. The pc will be used for a bit of gaming but mostly other stuff.

The ram will be cooled by a dedicated fan and cpu with an aio, but I won't have the luxary to do water on the sticks this time around.


I'm contemplating z690 unfiy x vs. strix z790-i, any suggestions if I should go either way in terms of mem oc capabilities, will the new chipset/mobo/bios be superior to the old in a meaningful way? These mobo cost about the same and is sort of the limit in terms of price.

I guess the power stages on the strix-i which are 10 + 1 should be sufficient to some oc for the cpu as well, but I'm not totaly sure of this.

If any other z790 in the near price range is a better choice for mem oc please feel free to give me a hint!


For mem sticks I haven't decided if I should go for something that has A- or M-die. With the limitation of fan cooling and the mobo in option do anyone have a recommodation on either?

Would I be able to take benefit of higher freq on A-die with only fan cooling or would it be better trying for tighter timings on M-die?


I know the questions are rather open but any advise would be highly appreciated!


----------



## rs199208

7000 using 6400 A die XMP settings/voltages is also tm5/absolute stable. I'll memory diagnostic test it later. 
Edit: memory diagnostic passed.


----------



## rs199208

My local Microcenter has twp A die 6400 in black rgb, and two M die 6400 in silver rgb. That's all the 6400 stock they have tonight.
Also their 6600 is A die. Lots of them.


----------



## InvisibleShallot

rs199208 said:


> My local Microcenter has twp A die 6400 in black rgb, and two M die 6400 in silver rgb. That's all the 6400 stock they have tonight.
> Also their 6600 is A die. Lots of them.


Hynix A-die? For how much?


----------



## rs199208

InvisibleShallot said:


> Hynix A-die? For how much?


With newegg Price match $219.


----------



## InvisibleShallot

That is amazing price if it is true. Just a month ago I see no a-die anywhere below $300. How do you know they are A-Die?


----------



## rs199208

InvisibleShallot said:


> That is amazing price if it is true. Just a month ago I see no a-die anywhere below $300. How do you know they are A-Die?


 The stickers on the heatsinks. You can read them through the back of the kit boxes usually. 820A=A die, 820M=M die. Yes, it's true I just price matched newegg's sell for my already purchased last week 6400 A die.
The benifit with Microcenter or any computer store is that you can inspect each kit for the die you prefer. Ordering from newegg I don't think it works that way? They probably wouldn't understand you anyway if tried.
Plus, microcenter ddr5 currently has a 30 day return policy. Around Christmas this is extended usually too!


----------



## InvisibleShallot

Sounds great. Too bad we don't have Microcenter, and they won't ship to Canada. Congrats! This is almost as cheap as me getting Hynix A-Die straight from China.


----------



## droid99

rs199208 said:


> The stickers on the heatsinks. You can read them through the back of the kit boxes usually. 820A=A die, 820M=M die. Yes, it's true I just price matched newegg's sell for my already purchased last week 6400 A die.
> The benifit with Microcenter or any computer store is that you can inspect each kit for the die you prefer. Ordering from newegg I don't think it works that way? They probably wouldn't understand you anyway if tried.
> Plus, microcenter ddr5 currently has a 30 day return policy. Around Christmas this is extended usually too!
> View attachment 2582680


Wow! thank you for that pro tip. Im gonna try it. What about Corsair rams? Same 
method to find M-die or A-die?


----------



## droid99

acoustic said:


> No. X and A are designations between who is selling the product, not A/M die. The only way to tell if it's A or M is by looking at the last letter on the stick label - 820A = A Die / 820M = M Die.


Which version is more desirable M-die or A-die? for gaming PC


----------



## acoustic

droid99 said:


> Which version is more desirable M-die or A-die? for gaming PC


Depending on if you want to tune it or not, I'd get the fastest XMP you can afford. I think A-Die is much better for "XMP and forget it" users due to the lower voltages required.. better chance of it working than with M-Die, especially at the upper 6000 speeds.


----------



## rs199208

acoustic said:


> Depending on if you want to tune it or not, I'd get the fastest XMP you can afford. I think A-Die is much better for "XMP and forget it" users due to the lower voltages required.. better chance of it working than with M-Die, especially at the upper 6000 speeds.


Yeah, in my setup I'm starting to realize this with just yeeting the frequency since in my experience so far A die just works so easily.


----------



## seranidy

Super close to 16500 at 8400


----------



## droid99

I found good article with Hynix A-die DDR5 ram list, maybe will help to someone (use translator in chrome)

https://unikoshardware.com/2022/10/motherboard-vendor-qvl-hynix-a-die.html


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Nice run!
> 
> Care to share voltages and temperatures?


Renesas pmic maxed out


----------



## tibcsi0407

Dodgexander said:


> Is this VDD IMC or just VDD CPU in my BIOS?
> If you see my last post there's some screenshots of the Asrock BIOS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> Wow, you guys are talking about 8400mhz ram speeds! 😬 I'm still struggling to get my 4x32gb ddr5 5600mhz to work. When I enable xmp, it gives me a black screen. I've read about upping the VDD & VDDQ voltages. I'm waiting on a 13900k cpu, then will experiment. These are my pc specs: MB: Asus...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


It should be the CPU one. I don't how ASRock call it but you will see it in Hwinfo.


----------



## rs199208

Running at 7200 now. 
tm5/absolute 35 minutes in looks like going to be another error free test. 
This time I needed to raise some primaries to stabilize using 6400 XMP settings/voltages all auto /default except 34 42 42.


----------



## rs199208

droid99 said:


> Wow! thank you for that pro tip. Im gonna try it. What about Corsair rams? Same
> method to find M-die or A-die?


Idk about corsair. I was going by the timings mainly when I was attempting to read the corsair kits at Microcenter last night.


----------



## Dodgexander

@tibcsi0407 I think raising the TX voltage helped. Thank you. Default 1.1v is not enough for XMP with my RAM. In BIOS I raise both VDD CPU and VDD CPU IMC.

Is this fluctuation of memory VDD normal?


----------



## rs199208

7200 tm5/absolute stable using 6400 XMP auto /default settings and voltages other than raising these primaries 34 42 42.
While saving around $170 by returning the 7200 kit lol! I need to clean up the timings now or go higher frequency?

Edit: tm5/absolute started on 7400!! No errors yet and no changes to settings!


----------



## tibcsi0407

Dodgexander said:


> @tibcsi0407 I think raising the TX voltage helped. Thank you. Default 1.1v is not enough for XMP with my RAM. In BIOS I raise both VDD CPU and VDD CPU IMC.
> 
> Is this fluctuation of memory VDD normal?
> View attachment 2582762


That was too low. It is your CPU IMC voltage, should be around 1.3V, if you have not that good IMC, you should raise it, but for the low speeds of Micron 1.3V should be enough.
Yes, it is normal. Did you left it on auto?


----------



## Dodgexander

tibcsi0407 said:


> That was too low. It is your CPU IMC voltage, should be around 1.3V, if you have not that good IMC, you should raise it, but for the low speeds of Micron 1.3V should be enough.
> Yes, it is normal. Did you left it on auto?


Yes, I assumed that setting an XMP profile and leaving the voltages on auto would raise it automatically. But honestly the terminology used in this thread is confusing to me because Asrock seem to name their options illogically, or the opposite to terms used here. Thanks to your help and some testing I have figured it out.

In case anyone needs help in the future translating terms people mention in this thread into Asrock BIOS language:

Known TermsAsrock BIOS LanguageHWInfo (Asrock)MC or IMC VoltageCPU_VDDCPU_VDDVDDQ TXCPU_IMCVDDQ TX
Luckily, memory VDD and VDDQ are the same.
System Agent (also known as SA) is not in voltage section on Asrock boards, but instead hidden inside the F.I.V.R section. To increase it to a custom number you have to set mode to override and key in the voltage there. Alternatively, you can keep adaptive mode and key in an offset if you're happy with the SA voltage being dynamic.

If you're anything like me setting an XMP profile will not adjust CPU_IMC or CPU_VDD beyond 1.1v and the board is not 100% stable in tests without boosting these voltages manually.

I will leave my VDDQ TX and MC to 1.3 and test overnight, but today at work it was finally 9 hours stable at XMP without a system restart.


----------



## rs199208

7400 stable with 6400 XMP auto/default settings plus .020V added to linked dimm voltages.

I'm having trouble stabilizing 7600. It just BSOD when I run aida64 bandwidth and latency bench.


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> 7400 stable with 6400 XMP auto/default settings plus .020V added to linked dimm voltages.
> 
> I'm having trouble stabilizing 7600. It just BSOD when I run aida64 bandwidth and latency bench.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2582810


Maybe you should lower your SA and TX, those are too high.


----------



## Muut

Daily profile on EVGA Z690 DARK Kingpin & Intel i9-13900KF + Hynix m-die (Kingston Fury renegade 6400 c32)

*Stable : *










*7200 c32-42-42-28 (m-die)*
SA: 1.1v
VDD : 1.54v
VDDQ : 1.45v
VDD2 (IMC) : 1.54v
VDDQ TX : 1.4v

*Benchable profile :*










*7600 c32-42-43-28 (m-die)*
SA: 1.2v
VDD : 1.66v
VDDQ : 1.63v
VDD2 (IMC) : 1.62v
VDDQ TX : 1.4v











Almost same profile but for Y-cruncher.
Had to loosen a bit : 

*7400 c32-44-44-28 (m-die)*
SA: 1.2v
VDD : 1.66v
VDDQ : 1.63v
VDD2 (IMC) : 1.62v
VDDQ TX : 1.4v










*8000 C32-44-44-28 (m-die)*
SA: 1.35v
VDD : 1.70v
VDDQ : 1.66v
VDD2 (IMC) : 1.64v
VDDQ TX : 1.4v

Just got my CPU this weekend so it's just the beginning


----------



## energie80

Is anyone working on tightening team groups 7600? 
just installed mine


----------



## grilli4nt

rs199208 said:


> 7200 tm5/absolute stable using 6400 XMP auto /default settings and voltages other than raising these primaries 34 42 42.
> While saving around $170 by returning the 7200 kit lol! I need to clean up the timings now or go higher frequency?
> 
> Edit: tm5/absolute started on 7400!! No errors yet and no changes to settings!
> View attachment 2582742


Nice, just ran my 6400 A-dies at 7200cl34 in 1h memtest86 stress in asus bios without issues. Have to bench further but they are giving me similar results to the about 150eur more expensive 7200 rated g skill I also have tried.

For my bench I'm using the XMP profile from the 7200 kits since I had that saved in my bios since before. 34-45-45-115, Trfc 576.
Voltages:
SA: 1.175
CPU VDDQ TX: 1.32
CPU IMC: 1.36
RAM VDD/VDDQ: 1.4 (stock)

I have a very hard time finding stabilty if I start increasing dimm voltages. Not sure if its me not finding right balances, or my platform (mb/cpu) that doesnt want to take it. So not sure I can go higher as I would assume the dimms would want more voltage running at higher freqs than just stock 1.4.

Anyone with ideas on the voltage issue? I've tried keeping the CPU voltages (vddq tx, sa, imc) low, high, auto, and tried to have them proportionally increase with the dimm voltages. For instance, if increasing vdd and vddq to 1.5 (7% increase), I've tried the same with SA and VDDQTX. But nothing seems to work at higher voltages. Also tried increasing imc voltage to cater for higher freqs, but with no luck. And oh, I've noticed that my system really like keeping SA low. The bench above that passed memtest did not pass with SA set over 1.2, by lowering to 1.175, it passed.


----------



## Minciu

sulalin said:


> 準備好您的 T-FORCE DDR5 ADIE 每套手工挑選的，必須在 Z790 4DIMM 上 16G*2 7600/7800MHZ 1.35V~1.4V 穩定過測試每套手工挑选和測試的質量！！保證！！！
> KO 10PCB
> View attachment 2574758
> 
> View attachment 2574757
> 
> View attachment 2574756
> 
> View attachment 2574801


Buying Apex looks same like this ? Accordint to posta about Motherboard i fell we dont read all XD


----------



## droid99

Guys, can you overclock hynix a-die ram with undervolted 13700K (for low temps and power)?


----------



## Thunderclap

Two more A-Die kits to add to the list:

*Patriot Viper Venom RGB DDR5 2X16GB 7000 32-48-48-96 1.4V (P/N PVVR532G700C32K)
Patriot Viper Venom RGB DDR5 2X16GB 7400 36-44-44-110 1.45V (P/N PVVR532G740C36K)*


----------



## Dodgexander

Unfortunately, I spoke to soon, still getting the system rebooting, this time after a 4h HCI test overnight with VDDQ TX and MC set to 1.3v and using XMP settings. Next step to test at JEDEC I guess.


----------



## Nizzen

droid99 said:


> Guys, can you overclock hynix a-die ram with undervolted 13700K (for low temps and power)?


It's pretty much meta for gaming. Stock cpu + max oc ddr5


----------



## nkoxsw1331

What's the z790 a-die meta looking like? Any preferential motherboards for higher MT memory oc? There doesn't seem to be many 1dpc board options available so far this year.


----------



## Nizzen

nkoxsw1331 said:


> What's the z790 a-die meta looking like? Any preferential motherboards for higher MT memory oc? There doesn't seem to be many 1dpc board options available so far this year.


Looks like Apex z790 is meta 😇


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

nkoxsw1331 said:


> What's the z790 a-die meta looking like? Any preferential motherboards for higher MT memory oc? There doesn't seem to be many 1dpc board options available so far this year.


For Z790 APEX obviously. But I would wait for Tachyon from Gigabyte. 

For Z690 never go wrong with Unify-X Solid well balanced board for cheap


----------



## energie80

someone sharing 7600 tightning settings?
thanks


----------



## AmateurRanger

rs199208 said:


> My local Microcenter has twp A die 6400 in black rgb, and two M die 6400 in silver rgb. That's all the 6400 stock they have tonight.
> Also their 6600 is A die. Lots of them.


Is there a way you can tell from the G.skill packaging? Might stop by MC later too just for this. Thanks a ton!

Edit: figured it out in the previous posts, thank you!


----------



## rs199208

AmateurRanger said:


> Is there a way you can tell from the G.skill packaging? Might stop by MC later too just for this. Thanks a ton!


This is the only way you can tell by seeing the heatsink label/sticker through the back of the kit box. 820A=A die 820M=M die. Good luck!


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Maybe you should lower your SA and TX, those are too high.


Those are auto set. Can't mess with them or crash. 



grilli4nt said:


> Nice, just ran my 6400 A-dies at 7200cl34 in 1h memtest86 stress in asus bios without issues. Have to bench further but they are giving me similar results to the about 150eur more expensive 7200 rated g skill I also have tried.
> 
> For my bench I'm using the XMP profile from the 7200 kits since I had that saved in my bios since before. 34-45-45-115, Trfc 576.
> Voltages:
> SA: 1.175
> CPU VDDQ TX: 1.32
> CPU IMC: 1.36
> RAM VDD/VDDQ: 1.4 (stock)
> 
> I have a very hard time finding stabilty if I start increasing dimm voltages. Not sure if its me not finding right balances, or my platform (mb/cpu) that doesnt want to take it. So not sure I can go higher as I would assume the dimms would want more voltage running at higher freqs than just stock 1.4.
> 
> Anyone with ideas on the voltage issue? I've tried keeping the CPU voltages (vddq tx, sa, imc) low, high, auto, and tried to have them proportionally increase with the dimm voltages. For instance, if increasing vdd and vddq to 1.5 (7% increase), I've tried the same with SA and VDDQTX. But nothing seems to work at higher voltages. Also tried increasing imc voltage to cater for higher freqs, but with no luck. And oh, I've noticed that my system really like keeping SA low. The bench above that passed memtest did not pass with SA set over 1.2, by lowering to 1.175, it passed.


Nice! Yeah, these don't like adding voltages much. 

Maybe, I need to raise a timing since I'm still not running 7200 XMP settings.
Thanks!


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> Nice, just ran my 6400 A-dies at 7200cl34 in 1h memtest86 stress in asus bios without issues. Have to bench further but they are giving me similar results to the about 150eur more expensive 7200 rated g skill I also have tried.
> 
> For my bench I'm using the XMP profile from the 7200 kits since I had that saved in my bios since before. 34-45-45-115, Trfc 576.
> Voltages:
> SA: 1.175
> CPU VDDQ TX: 1.32
> CPU IMC: 1.36
> RAM VDD/VDDQ: 1.4 (stock)
> 
> I have a very hard time finding stabilty if I start increasing dimm voltages. Not sure if its me not finding right balances, or my platform (mb/cpu) that doesnt want to take it. So not sure I can go higher as I would assume the dimms would want more voltage running at higher freqs than just stock 1.4.
> 
> Anyone with ideas on the voltage issue? I've tried keeping the CPU voltages (vddq tx, sa, imc) low, high, auto, and tried to have them proportionally increase with the dimm voltages. For instance, if increasing vdd and vddq to 1.5 (7% increase), I've tried the same with SA and VDDQTX. But nothing seems to work at higher voltages. Also tried increasing imc voltage to cater for higher freqs, but with no luck. And oh, I've noticed that my system really like keeping SA low. The bench above that passed memtest did not pass with SA set over 1.2, by lowering to 1.175, it passed.


My first time past 10 minutes on Tm5/absolute without errors yet on 7600 at 34 45 45.
Dimm linked voltages 1.42V
Dimm VPP raised to 2.0V
CPU AUX raised to 2.0V
Rest on 6400 xmp auto/default settings and voltages.
Those primaries could possibly go lower but I figured easier to keep them loose.
as Buildzoid would say "ddr5 primaries don't matter" when speaking of performance...


----------



## grilli4nt

rs199208 said:


> My first time past 10 minutes on Tm5/absolute without errors yet on 7600 at 34 45 45.
> Dimm linked voltages 1.42V
> Dimm VPP raised to 2.0V
> CPU AUX raised to 2.0V
> Rest on 6400 xmp auto/default settings and voltages.
> Those primaries could possibly go lower but I figured easier to keep them loose.
> as Buildzoid would say "ddr5 primaries don't matter"


What mobo/cpu you running?


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> What mobo/cpu you running?


Unify X 12900KS at 5.3 all core dynamic mode, E cores disabled, Ring 5.0, voltages on auto.


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> What mobo/cpu you running?


That made it to 24 minutes before first error. 
This is the same problem I had with the 7200 kit between 7600-7800.
Even resetting bios to stock everything didn't work last time which is part of the reason I gave up on the 7200 kit. 
I guess I'll try raising timings again because + voltages aren't working yet.


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> What mobo/cpu you running?





rs199208 said:


> That made it to 24 minutes before first error.
> This is the same problem I had with the 7200 kit between 7600-7800.
> Even resetting bios to stock everything didn't work last time which is part of the reason I gave up on the 7200 kit.
> I guess I'll try raising timings again because + voltages aren't working yet.


Ohhhh! I keep forgetting that twcl needs to be raised simultaneously as tcl is raised to avoid stability issues.
So raised twcl all the way to 38 and tcl to 38 in order to avoid any other issues like this for awhile.
After that the kit is now accepting more Dimm voltages which is now 1.45 and still linked.
Not stable yet but isn't throwing crazy errors like before these settings.

Edit:it must have to do with the timings because every combination I try in voltages doesn't help till I run Dimm VDD higher than Dimm VDDQ.
Currently unlinked Dimm voltages:
VDD 1.47 VDDQ 1.42
I'm leaving .05 between them because Buildzoid claims any more than that is bad.

Edit2: Well, this is interesting! I may have found a major cause of instability that's been present this whole time.
When I ramp up all 22 of my phanteks t30 120mm fans the stress test tm5/absolute gets a error.
I have wondered if I should offload my whole cooling system to a separate psu and possibly a aquacomputer because of stability.

Shutting down to transfer all fans to a external psu using Silverstone hubs.


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> Those are auto set. Can't mess with them or crash.


Hope that TX won't degrade your CPU's IMC. I have M-Die (which needs more voltage basically) on 7000 CL32, but 1.35V is enough for that.


----------



## SUPERSAM76

Chintz said:


> Look at the label on the sticks and if they read "820A" it is a die.
> 
> For g.skill
> 
> Lot Code
> -S830A = Micron 16Gbit A-Die
> -S82*A = Hynix 16Gbit A-Die
> -S82*M = Hynix 16Gbit M-Die
> -S810B = Samsung 16Gbit B-Die


I recently purchased some G.Skill memory from Newegg that ended in -820A, which assures me it is A-die, but I noticed in a Reddit thread that others have been receiving sticks that end with -821A. What is the significance of the 3rd digit? It is a newer revision? Would this have any impact the ability to OC the RAM? Thanks!


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Hope that TX won't degrade your CPU's IMC. I have M-Die (which needs more voltage basically) on 7000 CL32, but 1.35V is enough for that.
> View attachment 2582957


Nice!
No worries on my tx it can go higher just fine even. Direct die cooled and my temps stay low which is more important to me.




SUPERSAM76 said:


> I recently purchased some G.Skill memory from Newegg that ended in -820A, which assures me it is A-die, but I noticed in a Reddit thread that others have been receiving sticks that end with -821A. What is the significance of the 3rd digit? It is a newer revision? Would this have any impact the ability to OC the RAM? Thanks!


Yeah, I saw those 821M at Microcenter. They were the Neo AMD Expo kits. I don't remember if XMP kits had 821 also. I saw a few though so get them mixed up. 
Edit: I mistakenly said 821A I meant 821M.


----------



## Dodgexander

Not that it's very interesting but I tested at stock JDEC settings, and the system is still rebooting during HCI memtest.
I've lost patience and ended up buying the Team 7200 A die together with the MSI Z790 ITX board, I also bought some G.Skill 6000 CL30 to test in the current system first to see if the RAM is the issue. I'll return whatever I don't use.

Hopefully the issue is my motherboard or ram and not power supply or CPU.


----------



## rs199208

Yes!!! It was the 22 3000 rpm fans running off my MB! 
After I offloaded 16 of the fans to a external psu I had to redo timings and voltages. Now passed personal record stability on 7600. 35 minutes so far. Hope it completes with no errors! 
Currently, at 36 46 46, twcl 32, cpu vddq 1.55, linked dimm voltages 1.45.
That's the only changes to 6400 XMP and auto voltages.


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> Nice!
> No worries on my tx it can go higher just fine even. Direct die cooled and my temps stay low which is more important to me.


Maybe it can, but it is not neccessary. But you will see, hope your IMC won't degrade over time. Acc. to Buildzoid it is safe only up to 1.45V.


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Maybe it can, but it is not neccessary. But you will see, hope your IMC won't degrade over time. Acc. to Buildzoid it is safe only up to 1.45V.


Uh? My imc is vdd2 and buildzoid said safe way higher than than anything else. 
You must be thinking of SA. 
But anyway I'm about to drop back down to 7200 and tightened it up because I got a error at 50 minutes tm5 so I'm done with 7600. Learned somethings though from this experience.


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> Uh? My imc is vdd2 and buildzoid said safe way higher than than anything else.
> You must be thinking of SA.
> But anyway I'm about to drop back down to 7200 and tightened it up because I got a error at 50 minutes tm5 so I'm done with 7600. Learned somethings though from this experience.


Nope, VDD2 is an external voltage on your board between the dimms and the CPU. TX is internal IMC voltage in your CPU, just like SA. They are actually on the same rail AFAIK.

_Here are the suggestions from BZ:
RAM / IMC voltages
VCCSA: upto 1.45V is safe
VCCIN: upto 2V is safe
CPU VDDQ: upto 1.45V is safe
CPU VDD2: upto 1.6V is safe
RAM VDD: upto 1.6V is safe
RAM VDDQ: upto 1.6V is safe
RAM VPP: upto 2V is safe 

Bit more detailed here: LINK_


----------



## mattxx88

Asus z690 users here can push theyr Hynix A die past 7600 on both slots?

I have a very annoing issue with my Strix i, A1 bench 8000+, B1 cannot go higer than 7600, this using 1 stick at a time.
If i use both stick nothing higer than 7000, no matter the voltage


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Nope, VDD2 is an external voltage on your board between the dimms and the CPU. TX is internal IMC voltage in your CPU, just like SA. They are actually on the same rail AFAIK.
> 
> _Here are the suggestions from BZ:
> RAM / IMC voltages
> VCCSA: upto 1.45V is safe
> VCCIN: upto 2V is safe
> CPU VDDQ: upto 1.45V is safe
> CPU VDD2: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VDD: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VDDQ: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VPP: upto 2V is safe
> 
> Bit more detailed here: LINK_


That's on a gigabyte. And I actually had that screenshot on my phone from a week or so ago. It's too conservative numbers. I go paet those when doing these experiments since I've had both my q2th i9 chips and as you can see my memory controller matches even 13th gen. I'm not worried at all because my cpu is direct die and runs cool all the time.
I've been running these voltages off/on since last year.
But thanks for the vdd2 correction. I'll loll that up now.

" wouldn't recommend going over 1.45V for long term use. (I might be overly cautious about this)"


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> That's on a gigabyte. And I actually had that screenshot on my phone from a week or so ago. It's too conservative numbers. I go paet those when doing these experiments since I've had both my q2th i9 chips and as you can see my memory controller matches even 13th gen. I'm not worried at all because my cpu is direct die and runs cool all the time.
> I've been running these voltages off/on since last year.
> But thanks for the vdd2 correction. I'll loll that up now.
> 
> " wouldn't recommend going over 1.45V for long term use. (I might be overly cautious about this)"


Yep, on Gigabyte, every board maker call it differently.


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Yep, on Gigabyte, every board maker call it differently.


To tell the truth you had me doubting myself for a few minutes lol! 
When I gave up on 7600 and dropped back down to 7200 to tighten that profile it was unstable until I cmos the bios and then reloaded the 7200 profile. Whew!


----------



## sulalin

問


mattxx88 said:


> 華碩 z690 用戶可以將他們的 Hynix A die 在兩個插槽上推到 7600 以上嗎？
> 
> 我的 Strix i 有一個非常煩人的問題，A1 bench 8000+，B1 不能超過 7600，一次使用一根棒。
> 如果我同時使用兩個棍子，無論電壓如何，都不超過 7000
> [/引用]
> rog z690i 我用12代CPU可以開啟三星粒子7000-7500單8274mhz關機通道。Hylix MDie 7000/7500 是一樣的。單通道8360mhz是在風冷cpu 12900kf QS sp 79下實現的


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> To tell the truth you had me doubting myself for a few minutes lol!
> When I gave up on 7600 and dropped back down to 7200 to tighten that profile it was unstable until I cmos the bios and then reloaded the 7200 profile. Whew!


Maybe something was messed up in your BIOS. Time will tell about that TX voltage.


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Maybe something was messed up in your BIOS. Time will tell about that TX voltage.


I had forgotten that 7200 needed higher primaries than 6400


----------



## mattxx88

sulalin said:


> ask


i tried every range of vdd/q from 1.45 to 1.65, on slot B1 no boot higher than 7400. while in A1 the same stick bench over 8000 (also boot 8400 eg)
i see this difference too high for my standard, well understood that a slot may be weaker than other, but not that much or completely not working.
I think the only thing I have to, is to change MB sadly. 
Maybe MSI meg z690? they seems more solid than Asus


----------



## sulalin

mattxx88 said:


> 我嘗試了從 1.45 到 1.65 的每個 vdd/q 範圍，在插槽 B1 上沒有高於 7400 的引導。而在 A1 中，相同的長凳超過 8000（也引導 8400，例如）
> 我認為這個差異對於我的標準來說太高了，很清楚一個插槽可能比其他插槽弱，但不是那麼多或完全不工作。
> 我認為我唯一要做的就是悲傷地改變 MB。
> 也許是微星meg z690？他們似乎比華碩更堅固
> [/引用]
> 如果是z690 unify X，那就不推薦了。雙通道肯定比z690i差！我用過兩台z690 Ux！


----------



## mattxx88

sulalin said:


> If it's the z690 unify X, I wouldn't recommend it. Dual channel is definitely worse than z690i! I have used two z690 Ux!


i'll try the new z790i then, or another z690i strix for comparison.
Mine seems afflicted with the old Apex issues


----------



## energie80

My unify x running 7600 xmp without problems at first attempt


----------



## rs199208

energie80 said:


> My unify x running 7600 xmp without problems at first attempt


Nice! Cpu?


----------



## energie80

13900kf


----------



## roooo

rs199208 said:


> Uh? My imc is vdd2 and buildzoid said safe way higher than than anything else.
> You must be thinking of SA.
> But anyway I'm about to drop back down to 7200 and tightened it up because I got a error at 50 minutes tm5 so I'm done with 7600. Learned somethings though from this experience.


What kit are you using? Gskill 7600C36? I've got this one and gave up on 7600 with Hero Z690 BIOS 2201 and 13900K, too. Now also looking into tightening up at 7200. So far, I've only switched to the XMP Tweaked profile for establishing a stable base and running Karhu for 30min+ atm.

Any ideas what timings we may be shooting for?


Cheers,
r.


----------



## rs199208

roooo said:


> What kit are you using? Gskill 7600C36? I've got this one and gave up on 7600 with Hero Z690 BIOS 2201 and 13900K, too. Now also looking into tightening up at 7200. So far, I've only switched to the XMP Tweaked profile for establishing a stable base and running Karhu for 30min+ atm.
> 
> Any ideas what timings we may be shooting for?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> r.


It's the on sale $216 A die gskill kit 6400. 
I'm currently at 45ns MLC between .1-.3 playing with dimm voltages to see if I can go lower ns still. I'll post some screensots soon.
45-46ns was tm5/absolute 1hr12 minutes stable. But I wanted to drop it more lop!


----------



## energie80

Any idea why my sa voltage on auto is 1.4?


----------



## roooo

rs199208 said:


> It's the on sale $216 A die gskill kit 6400.
> I'm currently at 45ns MLC between .1-.3 playing with dimm voltages to see if I can go lower ns still. I'll post some screensots soon.
> 45-46ns was tm5/absolute 1hr12 minutes stable. But I wanted to drop it more lop!


Thanks! Good luck & looking forward to your screeners! ;-)


----------



## rs199208

energie80 said:


> Any idea why my sa voltage on auto is 1.4?


My UniX does the same thing. Personally I leave it alone and on auto.


----------



## energie80

rs199208 said:


> My UniX does the same thing. Personally I leave it alone and on auto.


I dropped it to 1.25, still working at 7600


----------



## mattxx88

energie80 said:


> Any idea why my sa voltage on auto is 1.4?


mine too past 7400 on asus


----------



## ocisdead

Please forgive me for being off topic but has anyone seen any truly CPU bound raptor lake gaming benchmarks showing DDR5 scaling? Most reviews I see are using 6000-6200 speed because that's what AMD can run but meanwhile $200 Z790 motherboards have 7600 XMP kits on their QVL.


----------



## rs199208

ocisdead said:


> Please forgive me for being off topic but has anyone seen any truly CPU bound raptor lake gaming benchmarks showing DDR5 scaling? Most reviews I see are using 6000-6200 speed because that's what AMD can run but meanwhile $200 Z790 motherboards have 7600 XMP kits on their QVL.


Jufes on Frame Chasers YouTube. Though he's not the best with ddr5 lol!


----------



## Agent-A01

I swapped from a Z690 Apex 2021 > Z790 Hero. 
Much better board.

G.Skill 7600 XMP Tweaked profile stable out of the box.










Apex board was limited to 7000MTs with the same kit.

None of those pesky random errors, just works.
I was even able to reduce auto voltages significantly.

IMC VDD 1.4 > 1.25v
VDDQ TX 1.4 > 1.3(maybe even lower haven't tried)
VCCSA 1.25 > 1.05

Pretty happy. Now tweaking time.


----------



## Gking62

question, can we assume for the moment that memory QVL'd for Z790/13900K would also work on a Z690/13900K where it wouldn't be on the QVL for Z690/12900K?


----------



## Resi

Gking62 said:


> question, can we assume for the moment that memory QVL'd for Z790/13900K would also work on a Z690/13900K where it wouldn't be on the QVL for Z690/12900K?


no don't think so m8. on z690 apex here with 139k no luck with anything above 6800(weird random errors etc) as far as gskill goes exactly as qvl states. haven't changed either. w8ting on z790 hero 🤞


----------



## Gking62

Resi said:


> no don't think so m8. on z690 apex here with 139k no luck with anything above 6800(weird random errors etc) as far as gskill goes exactly as qvl states. haven't changed either. w8ting on z790 hero 🤞


thanks bud, so what was highest XMP stuff you were able to run? I was considering the 64GB 6400 G.Skill kit thanks again.


----------



## rs199208

Gking62 said:


> question, can we assume for the moment that memory QVL'd for Z790/13900K would also work on a Z690/13900K where it wouldn't be on the QVL for Z690/12900K?


I doubt it. Even Z690 Extreme didn't avoid the Asus z690 problems. Many had problems with it. And dual rank 64GB kit would definitely have troubles if tried on one of those bad boards.


----------



## otaku76

Is it normal random spikes temperature DDR5 in hwinfo64? I will post a screens. You can see that temp goes too high on one stick and too low on other one. Is that some bug in hwinfo or memory problem? You can see my parameters on screens. So stable no problems. 
imc=1.1v vccsa = 0.95v manual 5600 CL36-36-36-89




















My ram:
F5-5600J3636C16GA2-TZ5RK
Trident Z5 RGB
DDR5-5600 CL36-36-36-89 1.20V


----------



## roooo

otaku76 said:


> Is it normal random spikes temperature DDR5 in hwinfo64? I will post a screens. You can see that temp goes too high on one stick and too low on other one. Is that some bug in hwinfo or memory problem? You can see my parameters on screens. So stable no problems.
> imc=1.1v vccsa = 0.95v manual 5600 CL36-36-36-89
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2583097
> 
> View attachment 2583096
> 
> 
> My ram:
> F5-5600J3636C16GA2-TZ5RK
> Trident Z5 RGB
> DDR5-5600 CL36-36-36-89 1.20V


It appears to be a bug that has been around for more than a year IIRC. Not sure if it's a HWINFO issue though. Can be ignored unless you're constantly hitting ~50C (which you shouldn't do anyway).


----------



## Carillo

Hi

Thought I'd share what I've found out in the last few days regarding MC volts and stability. I have two profiles I have been working with, one is an 8400 c34 and the other 8600 c34. Although I can pass 400% HCI on both profiles with only 1.40 MC, this is far from what is needed in battlefield 2042 128 player and MW 2 ground war. Both games hammer the CPU, and after hours of playing have now found that the 8400 c34 requires 1,475 MC and the 8600 c34 1,600 MC. I also experienced today that the computer shut down after 150% HCI on the 8600 c34, the solution was to remove all power limits in the bios. After that it went well! At the time of writing I am using the 8600 profile, so it will be interesting to see how long the cpu can live with 1.6 MC


----------



## Resi

Gking62 said:


> thanks bud, so what was highest XMP stuff you were able to run? I was considering the 64GB 6400 G.Skill kit thanks again.


No problem ! oo i see no idea that's a lot of memory, i will be more on the conservative side with speeds on z690, but honestly i don't have xp with such capacities.

Im always using 2x16 sticks for 32 total. With those I would say this apex here that i got could do max 6800 good secondary, tertiary timings sub 50ns, with qvl listed hynix m die 6400 from teamgroup, or 7200 average timings, with what i call apex stability, i.e random error appearing only in bench scenario, seems fine on daily use though.
I can't fault them because the kits that exhibit this behaviour are not in the qvl list.

Those are the new gskill hynix a die stuff. Actually the 6800 kit out of those runs fine even if it isn't in the QVL but only that one, the 7600 ofc its a no go no matter what, and god knows i tried hehee 😂👍
Honestly for 64 on z690 i would say 6000 mt max ? dunno things might be better ? really no experience there.. other members need to chime in


----------



## TraumatikOC

Agent-A01 said:


> I swapped from a Z690 Apex 2021 > Z790 Hero.
> Much better board.
> 
> G.Skill 7600 XMP Tweaked profile stable out of the box.
> 
> View attachment 2583060
> 
> 
> Apex board was limited to 7000MTs with the same kit.
> 
> None of those pesky random errors, just works.
> I was even able to reduce auto voltages significantly.
> IMC VDD 1.4 > 1.25v
> VDDQ TX 1.4 > 1.3(maybe even lower haven't tried)
> VCCSA 1.25 > 1.05
> Pretty happy. Now tweaking time.


Yep, i went from z690 extreme 2021 year, to the z790 hero and really impressed. gskill 7200 at 7600 with tighter timings from setting asus hynix 7600 profile. The extreme didnt want anything to do with anything over 6200 , teamgroup and gskill. Went thru 2 12900k 2 12900ks and this 13900k.


----------



## rs199208

Thanks! for all in this thread who helped me whether you know it or not lol! 
I'm extremely happy with this gskill 6400 A die kit from Microcenter $219 after tightening it up. 
Best kit I've had yet on 12th gen /Z690. 
It uses so little additional dimm voltage compared to M die. I don't know how much water cooling the ram helped voltages though. 

2hrs 20 minutes spent stress testing the majority of these timings in this tightened 7200 profile with TM5/Absolute. 
good enough for me. 
45.4ns -MLC 
47.5ns -Aida64 
46.9ns -Safe Mode Aida64 
113 GB/s -Aida64 
12900KS: Vietnam batch# X204P096. direct die - supercomputers.
BCLK 100., 5.3 P all cores fixed mode, E cores disabled, Ring 5.0.
Vcore voltages on auto, all LLC on auto. 
MSI Unify X 
GSKILL F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
Label code-820A. 
Bitspower DDR5 water block with pads on both sides of dimm and on controller. 
Changed voltages to run this (auto not listed): 
CPU VDD2 1.5V could possibly go lower didn't try. 
CPU AUX 2.0V
DIMM VPP 2.0V
DIMM Unlinked voltages:
VDD 1.45V could possibly go lower. 
VDDQ Auto 1.4V
6400 XMP enabled, dram speed 7200.
34 42 42 28 410 310, trefi maxed, trdpre-8
etc timings see DragonBall. 
fast boot disabled, round trip latency enabled, power down disabled. 

This HWINFO64 shows the bug it has with A die dram. see dimm 1 max Temp is false. This bug usually appears at the end of a stress test.


----------



## Gking62

Resi said:


> Honestly for 64 on z690 i would say 6000 mt max ? dunno things might be better ? really no experience there.. other members need to chime in


thanks, you may be right as my PC was built for gaming, specifically DCS World which places more importance on how much ram and not so on how fast, with 64GB is ideal for mp most especially Syria. However games really don't need much more than the standard 4800 or if you will XMP, my case XMP2 5600. I'm running the Kingston 64GB CL40 kit and it's fine at XMP1 or XMP2, but just the same I'd like to see how far higher I can achieve XMP to amuse myself be it 6k or 6400.


----------



## opt33

Carillo said:


> Hi
> 
> Thought I'd share what I've found out in the last few days regarding MC volts and stability. I have two profiles I have been working with, one is an 8400 c34 and the other 8600 c34. Although I can pass 400% HCI on both profiles with only 1.40 MC, this is far from what is needed in battlefield 2042 128 player and MW 2 ground war. Both games hammer the CPU, and after hours of playing have now found that the 8400 c34 requires 1,475 MC and the 8600 c34 1,600 MC. I also experienced today that the computer shut down after 150% HCI on the 8600 c34, the solution was to remove all power limits in the bios. After that it went well! At the time of writing I am using the 8600 profile, so it will be interesting to see how long the cpu can live with 1.6 MC


same here, karhu/hci memtest/tm5 all work for dram vdd/vddq, but none adequate for cpu vdd2 or cpu vddq. Tried y cruncher couple times but still allows too low voltages for short run and not running long runs because amps/temps. Until find better test for cpu vdd2/vddq without high amps/temps, will stick with gaming.


----------



## newls1

energie80 said:


> Any idea why my sa voltage on auto is 1.4?


because its on auto...... way to high


----------



## rs199208

How well can the non e core 12th gen dies do with memory controller? 
I have a 12100 i3 waiting to get delidded and OC after I re install a 12900k to document it with this new ram.


----------



## bhav

rs199208 said:


> How well can the non e core 12th gen dies do with memory controller?
> I have a 12100 i3 waiting to get delidded and OC after I re install a 12900k to document it with this new ram.


The non Ks have locked 0.95 SA voltage.

Generally this is more limiting for DDR4, so a non K with DDR5 is the right choice. How much SA voltage affects DDR5 I'm not fully sure, but 6000-6400 should still be possible.


----------



## energie80

Dropped the voltage to 1.25sa and perfectly working at 7600


----------



## Nizzen

How fast is Stock 13900k with tuned memory on air?

Geekbench 3 memory performance:
*Geekbench 3 Score*



8548
Single-Core Score111846
Multi-Core Score


----------



## sugi0lover

Here are 8600c36 stable oc setup and 8800c36 geekbench by Doojin.
cmo file included for stable 8600c36 setup.



Spoiler: Stable 8600c36



VDD 1.62v, VDDQ 1.6v, TX 1.4v, MC 1.5v, Sa 1.12

























Here is his cmo file.





0801_8600C36.CMO







drive.google.com










Spoiler: 8800c36 geekbench & aida


----------



## energie80

What you use for cmo files?


----------



## sugi0lover

energie80 said:


> What you use for cmo files?


cmo file contains bios setup, so you can load the cmo file in the bios and all setup is there.
But you need the same mb.


----------



## energie80

sugi0lover said:


> cmo file contains bios setup, so you can load the cmo file in the bios and all setup is there.
> But you need the same mb.


I just wanted to read it


----------



## KedarWolf

G.SKILL Trident Z5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K bought this, all the reviews says it was M-Die, get it, _820A_ A-Die.

Being on AM5 I really wanted an M-Die kit. I already have an A-Die kit. 

Back to Newegg it goes.


----------



## tibcsi0407

KedarWolf said:


> G.SKILL Trident Z5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K bought this, all the reviews says it was M-Die, get it, _820A_ A-Die.
> 
> Being on AM5 I really wanted an M-Die kit. I already have an A-Die kit.
> 
> Back to Newegg it goes.


Does it matter on Ryzen? Will it work above 6400, or do you need the faster TRFC?


----------



## KedarWolf

tibcsi0407 said:


> Does it matter on Ryzen? Will it work above 6400, or do you need the faster TRFC?


I just want overall better timings, even if they are minimal. A slight improvement is still an improvement. Maybe a bit better tCL and tRAS, tREFI etc.

Edit: I RMA'd them, then sent this to newegg.ca support. With a pic of 820M on the label part number from the review.

_"All the reviews says this was M-Die. When I opened the kit, the part number ended with 820A which means it's A-Die.

I badly need M-Die because I'm on AM5 platform. I RMA'd the kit.

But if you have any open box kits from RMA, could you check if you have one the part number on the label on each RAM stick ends with 820M and send me a replacement ending with that part number.

I thought, because of reviews, all the kits were M-Die. But apparently, I see now, some are and some are not.

Could you please check for the same G.Skill kit that is M-Die, like I said, the part number ends with 820M. I'd even settle for a similar G.Skill kit the part number ends with 820M, even if it's not the G.SKILL Trident Z5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K, as long as it's close to being the same and M-Die.
G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB Review

This review shows on the label 820M they are M-Die. Mine were definitely 820A, A-Die."_


----------



## skullbringer

KedarWolf said:


> I just want overall better timings, even if they are minimal. A slight improvement is still an improvement. Maybe a bit better tCL and tRAS, tREFI etc.
> 
> Edit: I RMA'd them, then sent this to newegg.ca support. With a pic of 820M on the label part number from the review.
> 
> _"All the reviews says this was M-Die. When I opened the kit, the part number ended with 820A which means it's A-Die.
> 
> I badly need M-Die because I'm on AM5 platform. I RMA'd the kit.
> 
> But if you have any open box kits from RMA, could you check if you have one the part number on the label on each RAM stick ends with 820M and send me a replacement ending with that part number.
> 
> I thought, because of reviews, all the kits were M-Die. But apparently, I see now, some are and some are not.
> 
> Could you please check for the same G.Skill kit that is M-Die, like I said, the part number ends with 820M. I'd even settle for a similar G.Skill kit the part number ends with 820M, even if it's not the G.SKILL Trident Z5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K, as long as it's close to being the same and M-Die.
> G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB Review
> 
> This review shows on the label 820M they are M-Die. Mine were definitely 820A, A-Die."_


G.Skill switched to A-Die like 2 months ago on those SKUs, so depends on which production date you get.  

Sure, M-die is better on Ryzen, but A-die isn't horrible either if you tighten it


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> G.Skill switched to A-Die like 2 months ago on those SKUs, so depends on which production date you get.
> 
> Sure, M-die is better on Ryzen, but A-die isn't horrible either if you tighten it


Trfc 300 vs 470 on A-die. Pretty much same second and 3. Timings.


----------



## z390e

bah let me repost this, something with the pic


----------



## KedarWolf

Nizzen said:


> Trfc 300 vs 470 on A-die. Pretty much same second and 3. Timings.


Yeah, that is good, but I think I saw someone with 28 tCL and tRAS stable too on M-Die, a bit better than me stable at 30.


----------



## energie80




----------



## asdkj1740

the new msi bios comes with three modes for the lucky mode.
mode 1 = correct rtl
mode 2 = optimizes some timings for better stability , results in lower performance
mode 3 = 1 + 2


----------



## energie80

asdkj1740 said:


> the new msi bios comes with three modes for the lucky mode.
> mode 1 = correct rtl
> mode 2 = optimizes some timings for better stability , results in lower performance
> mode 3 = 1 + 2


A81?


----------



## the_patchelor

asdkj1740 said:


> the new msi bios comes with three modes for the lucky mode.
> mode 1 = correct rtl
> mode 2 = optimizes some timings for better stability , results in lower performance
> mode 3 = 1 + 2


will that also be available on MPG Z790I EDGE WIFI?
If yes, what version number or beta?


----------



## asdkj1740

the_patchelor said:


> will that also be available on MPG Z790I EDGE WIFI?
> If yes, what version number or beta?


no idea, but you can try these (take your own risks)





User test Bios,attention to the date - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Nizzen said:


> Trfc 300 vs 470 on A-die. Pretty much same second and 3. Timings.


7000 tight M die is same game performance as = 7600 A die aswell


----------



## dante`afk

so, 8000+ so far only on evga KP and z790 boards right?


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> 8400 c38 on AIR! Testing my friend @SuperMumrik 's 6600 G.skill A-die on air on the new 0095 bios! 47 degree peek temp
> 
> 
> CPU : 13900KF SP103 with E-cores enabled (delidded)
> DRAM:6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS
> Voltages : SA 1.400v / TX 1.400 / MC 1.400v / VDD 1.53V VDDQ 1.53V
> Ram cooling : AIR
> Motherboard : Z790 APEX
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581642
> 
> 
> View attachment 2581482


This is impressive. Just switched my z790 strix-f to z790 hero (something I should’ve done earlier after wasting like 40 hours trying everything and nothing to get 7200 stable) and boy what a difference. Before nothing over 7000 could be made stable on my g skill g.skill A-dies 6400. Now 7600 doesn’t seem to be a problem, probably higher possible too. I can boot 8000cl36 to windows but haven’t managed to get anything at those levels stable.

I am on air with a dedicated 2200RPM noctua fan strapped over the sticks. Are you able to share some learnings?
Only thing I can really see differing your voltages with what I’ve tried is the SA. I’ve tried to keep it low as I’ve seen many others have successfully. But yours at 1.4. Interesting.

Edit: Currently benching 7600 34-45-45-115 512/412/65535 at 1.15 SA, 1.4 TX, 1.4 IMC, 1.52/1.45 VDD/VDDQ. 15 mins in Memtest86 no problems so far. Cant see temps as im running this from bios.


----------



## energie80

didnt have the time to work on my 7600 yet 😵‍💫


----------



## Gking62

KedarWolf said:


> G.SKILL Trident Z5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6400 Desktop Memory Model F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K bought this, all the reviews says it was M-Die, get it, _820A_ A-Die.
> 
> Being on AM5 I really wanted an M-Die kit. I already have an A-Die kit.
> 
> Back to Newegg it goes.


I ordered the 64GB (2x32 GB) kit yesterday, delivery for today will let you know, hope you get yours sorted.


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> This is impressive. Just switched my z790 strix-f to z790 hero (something I should’ve done earlier after wasting like 40 hours trying everything and nothing to get 7200 stable) and boy what a difference. Before nothing over 7000 could be made stable on my g skill g.skill A-dies 6400. Now 7600 doesn’t seem to be a problem, probably higher possible too. I can boot 8000cl36 to windows but haven’t managed to get anything at those levels stable.
> 
> I am on air with a dedicated 2200RPM noctua fan strapped over the sticks. Are you able to share some learnings?
> Only thing I can really see differing your voltages with what I’ve tried is the SA. I’ve tried to keep it low as I’ve seen many others have successfully. But yours at 1.4. Interesting.
> 
> Edit: Currently benching 7600 34-45-45-115 512/412/65535 at 1.15 SA, 1.4 TX, 1.4 IMC, 1.52/1.45 VDD/VDDQ. 15 mins in Memtest86 no problems so far. Cant see temps as im running this from bios.


Hey. Good to hear. 1.4 SA is not necessary at all. Only reason i always use 1.4 when testing new profiles, is that i like to remove as many potential error sources as possible. When i one day in the future decide on witch profile to use, i will start messing with it. But i know 1050mV is enough for 8200 c34 and 1150mV is enough for 8400 c34. If you want to find max speed on your board, use slightly looser primary timings, like 34.48.48.48 auto ( or 34) .


----------



## energie80

Not sure why they are pushing 1.4 as default sa


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> so, 8000+ so far only on evga KP and z790 boards right?


My z690 Apex does 8200 without issues


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> Hey. Good to hear. 1.4 SA is not necessary at all. Only reason i always use 1.4 when testing new profiles, is that i like to remove as many potential error sources as possible. When i one day in the future decide on witch profile to use, i will start messing with it. But i know 1050mV is enough for 8200 c34 and 1150mV is enough for 8400 c34. If you want to find max speed on your board, use slightly looser primary timings, like 34.48.48.48 auto ( or 34) .


Thanks for the tip. Is it fair to say that higher end boards are more suitable for mem OC because they handle higher voltages (and so current), by offering better shielding, better vrms etc? So far what I found with strix-f was that when upping dimm voltages I instantly reached instability. This seems better with the hero.

May you elaborate a bit on "finding max speed on your board"? Currently I'm trying the strategy to lower the frequency and just put the dimms at a voltage that Im comfortable with, tuning in those voltages with the rest, and then making sure that it is stable. Then increase frequency / timings on that "base voltage set until no longer stable. My theory is that if I get the voltages stable between the board, cpu and dimm, I narrow the instability purely to the dimms when only increasing the frequency / timings on those. Hence when you mention "finding max speed on your board", the question for me, using this strategy, is rather "finding the maximum voltages my board can handle" and then see how far I can go using those voltages. Is this making sense?

I just did a successful 1 hour memtest86 run with vdd/vddq/tx/imc/sa 1.55/1.5/1.4/1.4/1.15 and used 7200c34. I hoped this "voltage set" would be good also for 7600c34 but erroring out now, hmmm.. maybe my whole theory here has proven wrong and in order for me to increase frequency I also need to up the voltage more? Maybe the SA?


----------



## TraumatikOC

grilli4nt said:


> This is impressive. Just switched my z790 strix-f to z790 hero (something I should’ve done earlier after wasting like 40 hours trying everything and nothing to get 7200 stable) and boy what a difference. Before nothing over 7000 could be made stable on my g skill g.skill A-dies 6400. Now 7600 doesn’t seem to be a problem, probably higher possible too. I can boot 8000cl36 to windows but haven’t managed to get anything at those levels stable.
> 
> I am on air with a dedicated 2200RPM noctua fan strapped over the sticks. Are you able to share some learnings?
> Only thing I can really see differing your voltages with what I’ve tried is the SA. I’ve tried to keep it low as I’ve seen many others have successfully. But yours at 1.4. Interesting.
> 
> Edit: Currently benching 7600 34-45-45-115 512/412/65535 at 1.15 SA, 1.4 TX, 1.4 IMC, 1.52/1.45 VDD/VDDQ. 15 mins in Memtest86 no problems so far. Cant see temps as im running this from bios.


You can download memtest v10 and put on usb and boot into that , thats what i did, can actually see temps with it with my gskill 7200 at 7600.


----------



## Nizzen

dante`afk said:


> so, 8000+ so far only on evga KP and z790 boards right?


Good Apex z690 too


----------



## affxct

I picked up a kit of Z5 6400C32 820As alongside a M0EAY0 MAXIMUS Z690 HERO that I wanted to test. Thus far I’ve managed to boot up to 7400. 7600 didn’t seem to want train. 7400 seems somewhat doable but I don’t really have time right now to stabilise it. Going to see what sort of IMC settings are necessary for 7000 before l pass it onto my friend who will be using my old M-die preset settings with it.

Kinda excited to see what this kit will do on my Dark in a week or so when I move back to it. I’m not really going to get my hopes up, but I’m hoping for 7600-7800 at a reasonable voltage. Z5 heat spreaders appear to be a solid 5c worse than the FURY BEASTs, but not quite as bad as the ADATA CASTERs or LANCERs.


----------



## affxct

TraumatikOC said:


> You can download memtest v10 and put on usb and boot into that , thats what i did, can actually see temps with it with my gskill 7200 at 7600.


When you say temps, you mean IC temps or SPD hub temps?


----------



## affxct

Carillo said:


> Hi
> 
> Thought I'd share what I've found out in the last few days regarding MC volts and stability. I have two profiles I have been working with, one is an 8400 c34 and the other 8600 c34. Although I can pass 400% HCI on both profiles with only 1.40 MC, this is far from what is needed in battlefield 2042 128 player and MW 2 ground war. Both games hammer the CPU, and after hours of playing have now found that the 8400 c34 requires 1,475 MC and the 8600 c34 1,600 MC. I also experienced today that the computer shut down after 150% HCI on the 8600 c34, the solution was to remove all power limits in the bios. After that it went well! At the time of writing I am using the 8600 profile, so it will be interesting to see how long the cpu can live with 1.6 MC


You mean IMC VDD (VDD2) or like the actual internal voltage (TX)? If you mean VDD2, I’m not sure it is that big of a deal tbh.


----------



## Carillo

affxct said:


> You mean IMC VDD (VDD2) or like the actual internal voltage (TX)? If you mean VDD2, I’m not sure it is that big of a deal tbh.


ok


----------



## affxct

Codiee1337 said:


> Does somebody know the limit of the Kingston Fury Beast 6000MHz sticks?  (I have been using it at 6400MHz CL36 in the Tomahawk) I want to see the limits, also what is the daily safe voltage of the IMC in the raptors? Do we have enough data on this? Or just the usual stay below 1.4V and you are "maybe fine"?


7200C32 @ 1.605VDD/1.515VDDQ was doable on the Z690 Dark and a 13700K with a mediocre IMC.


----------



## Zero989

Bought the teamgroup 6800 kit 16gbx2. I think it's A die?

Time to set some world records
....

For lowest frequency due to 4 dimms and z690


----------



## affxct

Zero989 said:


> Bought the teamgroup 6800 kit 16gbx2. I think it's A die?
> 
> Time to set some world records
> ....
> 
> For lowest frequency due to 4 dimms and z690


I have faith in you


----------



## monster93

Recently, I got G.Skill 7600 Mhz XMP kit. With Z690 Apex and Intel 13900K, I could run the kit at 7200Mhz without issues. However, 7400Mhz+ is not possible even after adding a little extra voltage to the system agent and IMC. I am a newbie when it comes to RAM OC. I appreciate some help.


----------



## TraumatikOC

affxct said:


> When you say temps, you mean IC temps or SPD hub temps?


From their site "Real-time DIMM temperature reporting (limited hardware support, ongoing development) "
I saw it was finally updated to v10 and saw that it works better ( shows more info ) then the older bios version.


----------



## TraumatikOC

monster93 said:


> Recently, I got G.Skill 7600 Mhz XMP kit. With Z690 Apex and Intel 13900K, I could run the kit at 7200Mhz without issues. However, 7400Mhz+ is not possible even after adding a little extra voltage to the system agent and IMC. I am a newbie when it comes to RAM OC. I appreciate some help.


I got my Gskill 7200 up to 7600 by using the asus hynix profile in bios, it gives tighter timings and an overclock that so far passes memtest and games that gave me problems before. Then if doesnt work start tweaking, maybe use the asus tweak option and try mode 1 then mode 2.


----------



## cstkl1

@sugi0lover @Nizzen and everyone else

key for 8400/8600 is mc (read ) = vdd

so now my 8400 34-47 @1.55 vdd mc 1.55
8600 34-47 @1.6 vdd mc 1.65 (still testing)

cpu running pcore 55(sync +1/2) ecore 46 cache 50 ringdown disable vcore 1.2

so this i consider max stressing my ram

test on memtest 86 first


----------



## cstkl1

mattxx88 said:


> Asus z690 users here can push theyr Hynix A die past 7600 on both slots?
> 
> I have a very annoing issue with my Strix i, A1 bench 8000+, B1 cannot go higer than 7600, this using 1 stick at a time.
> If i use both stick nothing higer than 7000, no matter the voltage


your cpu problem


----------



## asdkj1740

cstkl1 said:


> your cpu problem


suddenly not just asus in the past but also msi and gigabyte now saying cpu imc matters.
poor asus in z690 era.


----------



## centvalny

asdkj1740 said:


> suddenly not just asus in the past but also msi and gigabyte now saying cpu imc matters.
> poor asus in z690 era.


Some max out @ 8400/8600, and a few can do 8800/9k (QS or retail) with ambient cooling HS intact


----------



## badjz

Zero989 said:


> Bought the teamgroup 6800 kit 16gbx2. I think it's A die?
> 
> Time to set some world records....
> 
> For lowest frequency due to 4 dimms and z690


Is it a die?


----------



## hrtz47

Can someone give me a review for MSI Z790I Edge? is this board better than Z690I Unify? Is there a ext clock gen like the Unify?


----------



## mattxx88

cstkl1 said:


> your cpu problem


next week i'll recevie a new z790, let's see


----------



## mattxx88

hrtz47 said:


> Can someone give me a review for MSI Z790I Edge? is this board better than Z690I Unify? Is there a ext clock gen like the Unify?


glad to know this info too, cause msi z790i edge would be my second choice if Asus fail again


----------



## affxct

TraumatikOC said:


> From their site "Real-time DIMM temperature reporting (limited hardware support, ongoing development) "
> I saw it was finally updated to v10 and saw that it works better ( shows more info ) then the older bios version.


That’s extremely interesting. If those are actually IC temps then wow. This SPD hub nonsense is really grinding my gears. I’m not an engineer so maybe I’m ignorant, but I don’t understand why the kit of Dominator Platinum D4 I just sold gets to have actual temps and I get to look at some arbitrary obscure reading.


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> If you want to find max speed on your board, use slightly looser primary timings, like 34.48.48.48 auto ( or 34) .


Seems I can't get above 7600 stable. I've tried 7800 very loose timings, increasing voltages across the board. Nothing. If I go above 1.45 imc voltage, getting worse stability. Tried 1.5v, wont even boot. Maybe the z790 hero maxes out around 7600-7800. Or the IMC is poor. I do have a 6400 xmp-rated a-die kit, but I've tried upping voltages to 1.65 and still exactly the same stability issues in karhu and memtet86, indicating the issue here is not the sticks. With the strix-f I had the same issues, but around 7200, hence I am leaning more towards this is the limit on the hero. What do you think @Carillo ?

Anyone in the forum with z790 hero and 13-series intel with higher than 7600 ram OCs? Would be keen to see!


----------



## Baka_boy

grilli4nt said:


> Seems I can't get above 7600 stable. I've tried 7800 very loose timings, increasing voltages across the board. Nothing. If I go above 1.45 imc voltage, getting worse stability. Tried 1.5v, wont even boot. Maybe the z790 hero maxes out around 7600-7800. Or the IMC is poor. I do have a 6400 xmp-rated a-die kit, but I've tried upping voltages to 1.65 and still exactly the same stability issues in karhu and memtet86, indicating the issue here is not the sticks. With the strix-f I had the same issues, but around 7200, hence I am leaning more towards this is the limit on the hero. What do you think @Carillo ?
> 
> Anyone in the forum with z790 hero and 13-series intel with higher than 7600 ram OCs? Would be keen to see!


It seems to work up to 8000+ with the newer beta bios 0801. Before that, I couldn't even get rated 7600 XMP working.

Posted here: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z790 Owners Thread


----------



## grilli4nt

Baka_boy said:


> It seems to work up to 8000+ with the newer beta bios 0801. Before that, I couldn't even get rated 7600 XMP working.
> 
> Posted here: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z790 Owners Thread


Oh sweet, that sounds promising. How do I find that version? Edit: Found it.


----------



## affxct

cstkl1 said:


> @sugi0lover @Nizzen and everyone else
> 
> key for 8400/8600 is mc (read ) = vdd
> 
> so now my 8400 34-47 @1.55 vdd mc 1.55
> 8600 34-47 @1.6 vdd mc 1.65 (still testing)
> 
> cpu running pcore 55(sync +1/2) ecore 46 cache 50 ringdown disable vcore 1.2
> 
> so this i consider max stressing my ram
> 
> test on memtest 86 first


This is basically the rule that EVGA and Gigabyte follow with their boards. For some reason doing this used to cause weirdness with ASUS Z690. Quite interesting that it’s working now. Definitely very helpful info though, thank you for testing that.


----------



## affxct

grilli4nt said:


> Seems I can't get above 7600 stable. I've tried 7800 very loose timings, increasing voltages across the board. Nothing. If I go above 1.45 imc voltage, getting worse stability. Tried 1.5v, wont even boot. Maybe the z790 hero maxes out around 7600-7800. Or the IMC is poor. I do have a 6400 xmp-rated a-die kit, but I've tried upping voltages to 1.65 and still exactly the same stability issues in karhu and memtet86, indicating the issue here is not the sticks. With the strix-f I had the same issues, but around 7200, hence I am leaning more towards this is the limit on the hero. What do you think @Carillo ?
> 
> Anyone in the forum with z790 hero and 13-series intel with higher than 7600 ram OCs? Would be keen to see!


7600 is still a great result. I’d say don’t sweat it and just enjoy your setup. If you think you’re stuck at 7600, then you more than likely are. It could be IMC, A-die bin, or just the PCB quality of your board sample. Whatever the reason, don’t worry about it.

The most logical solution (if you really need to solve it) is to grab an Apex, a different CPU, and a higher binned kit of A-die or a pair of green PCB sticks. That would make more sense than bashing your head against the 7600 wall with your current hardware.

To answer your question, @skullbringer did 7800 with 1/(15) CPUs. If I’m not wrong it was 1/15 of his i9s that could do 7800 on the MZ790H.


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> Good Apex z690 too


stop, trying to delete this disaster from my memory


----------



## IronAge

dante`afk said:


> so, 8000+ so far only on evga KP and z790 boards right?


On cherry picked / 2022 Z690 Apex and Gigabyte Z690 Tachyon as well.



GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon


----------



## Zero989

badjz said:


> Is it a die?


Don't know, it's in USA, I'm importing


----------



## affxct

badjz said:


> Is it a die?


It's definitely A-die. I don't think these kits are all that new. I just think they were released in tandem with Z790 and RPL due to fear of people trying them unsuccessfully on ADL/Z690.


----------



## J_Lab4645

grilli4nt said:


> Seems I can't get above 7600 stable. I've tried 7800 very loose timings, increasing voltages across the board. Nothing. If I go above 1.45 imc voltage, getting worse stability. Tried 1.5v, wont even boot. Maybe the z790 hero maxes out around 7600-7800. Or the IMC is poor. I do have a 6400 xmp-rated a-die kit, but I've tried upping voltages to 1.65 and still exactly the same stability issues in karhu and memtet86, indicating the issue here is not the sticks. With the strix-f I had the same issues, but around 7200, hence I am leaning more towards this is the limit on the hero. What do you think @Carillo ?
> 
> Anyone in the forum with z790 hero and 13-series intel with higher than 7600 ram OCs? Would be keen to see!


I was in the same boat as you, raising V=bad (until I thought backwards) and left Vdd/Vddq @1.4. Some A-die DO NOT like higher voltage. IMC(auto)SA(auto)TX(auto).
These results are with a 12900KS but did this same test with my 13900-KF. Same results. The Z790 board is really the 'hero' this gen. These are Teamgroup 7200. My luck with Gskill has not been as good.


----------



## bash13r

TraumatikOC said:


> Dont know if you tried this, go into bios , find the option to change the PMIC Voltage mode from "Sync ALL" to "Per PMIC" , also upping IMC voltages, theres youtube and guides if needed.


So just an update:

I could only get 2x32gb to run at 5600mhz.

When trying all 4 sticks, the best I could get stable was 4800mhz.

So for now I'll keep the 2 sticks running at 5600mhz. I needed 128gb for future proofing, but I think i'll get by with the 64gb for now. If in future one of these memory brands releases a 128gb 64gbx2 kit, I'll upgrade then.


----------



## Zero989

bash13r said:


> So just an update:
> 
> I could only get 2x32gb to run at 5600mhz.
> 
> When trying all 4 sticks, the best I could get stable was 4800mhz.
> 
> So for now I'll keep the 2 sticks running at 5600mhz. I needed 128gb for future proofing, but I think i'll get by with the 64gb for now. If in future one of these memory brands releases a 128gb 64gbx2 kit, I'll upgrade then.


Crank cpu vddq to like 1.6 or something lol to see if it boots


----------



## bash13r

Zero989 said:


> Crank cpu vddq to like 1.6 or something lol to see if it boots


LOL 😄 I don't think I'm that daring. 

For now I think I can make do with 64gb memory. 

I hope one of the memory brands release a 128gb kit 64x2 sometime soon. Seeing as these 12th & 13th gen motherboards only allow one to use 2 slots.


----------



## affxct

bash13r said:


> LOL 😄 I don't think I'm that daring.
> 
> For now I think I can make do with 64gb memory.
> 
> I hope one of the memory brands release a 128gb kit 64x2 sometime soon. Seeing as these 12th & 13th gen motherboards only allow one to use 2 slots.


I don’t think it’s a matter of 4 DIMM more so than a matter of quad rank. 2x32 D5 is currently dual rank. Even with M- and A-die, quad rank is something I’m yet to see be explored/attempted. I assume you bought that M-die kit off Wootware. It’s going to be a nightmare to try and get quad working at XMP. Your best bet would be to buy a Z790 Hero and see how you go. They handled 4x16 relatively well on Z690 so they’re your best bet (ASUS I mean).


----------



## WhiteOne

_ROG Strix Z690-F Gaming $350
ROG Strix Z790-F Gaming $500_
For better memory OC $150 extra worth it or no? I plan to get a 13700K and 2x16GB 6200cl36


----------



## affxct

WhiteOne said:


> _ROG Strix Z690-F Gaming $350
> ROG Strix Z790-F Gaming $500_
> For better memory OC $150 extra worth it or no? I plan to get a 13700kf and 2x16GB 6200cl36


Get 6400C32 820A A-die and the Z790-F. Do 7600. Don’t touch your CPU platform for 2-3 years.


----------



## WhiteOne

affxct said:


> Get 6400C32 820A A-die and the Z790-F. Do 7600. Don’t touch your CPU platform for 2-3 years.


Is there really a big jump from 690 to 790 with same cpu to justify +$150?


----------



## chibi

I ordered a z790-i Strix and 13900K, and now to pair it with memory. Have you guys tried the 7600 kit from Team Group yet? Just saw it hit newegg.ca.

Which is the better kit of the two? I see GSKILL has looser timing of the two. I'm going to hold off until next week. Hopefully there will be a discount with black friday.

Team Group 7600 (36-46-46-81) - $500 CAD





Are you a human?







www.newegg.ca





GSKILL 7600 (36-46-46-121) - $630 CAD





Are you a human?







www.newegg.ca


----------



## TraumatikOC

WhiteOne said:


> Is there really a big jump from 690 to 790 with same cpu to justify +$150?


For comparison on my experiences, i had the z690 extreme and i thought it was my cpus imc holding me back but it def was my mobo, 2 12900k 2 12900ks and a 13900k all didnt want to go over 6200 with major tweaks to get it stable at 2x16 gskill and TG at 6200. 
Got this z790 hero , cant be happier, my 3 kits work at xmp ( no fiddling with tweaks ) the gskill 7200 2x16 kit just worked with xmp1, then i used the asus ram profile for hynix 7600 , and working with tighter timings and 7600.


----------



## affxct

WhiteOne said:


> Is there really a big jump from 690 to 790 with same cpu to justify +$150?


Unfortunately - yes. Expect maybe 6800MT/s out of the Z690-F (M- or A-die; all that will change is the VDD requirement). From the Z790, expect like +800-1000MT/s. ASUS gave their new boards the special sauce topology from the M0UAY1 boards (maybe an even more revised version of that).


----------



## affxct

chibi said:


> I ordered a z790-i Strix and 13900K, and now to pair it with memory. Have you guys tried the 7600 kit from Team Group yet? Just saw it hit newegg.ca.
> 
> Which is the better kit of the two? I see GSKILL has looser timing of the two. I'm going to hold off until next week. Hopefully there will be a discount with black friday.
> 
> Team Group 7600 (36-46-46-81) - $500 CAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSKILL 7600 (36-46-46-121) - $630 CAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


If you care about value, buy 6400C32 820A.


----------



## grilli4nt

affxct said:


> Get 6400C32 820A A-die and the Z790-F. Do 7600. Don’t touch your CPU platform for 2-3 years.


I tried this combo, barely (maybe) got 7200 stable using a 7200 xmp rated kit but not any 1h+ runs. Upgraded to hero and returned the 7200 kit. Now I (think) I am getting 7600 stable but havent done any 1h+ stress tests yet.


----------



## grilli4nt

J_Lab4645 said:


> I was in the same boat as you, raising V=bad (until I thought backwards) and left Vdd/Vddq @1.4. Some A-die DO NOT like higher voltage. IMC(auto)SA(auto)TX(auto).
> These results are with a 12900KS but did this same test with my 13900-KF. Same results. The Z790 board is really the 'hero' this gen. These are Teamgroup 7200. My luck with Gskill has not been as good.
> View attachment 2583388


I like the idea, taking a step back and re-think, thanks for the tip! Actually manage to get similar results to my 1.56/1.53 dimm voltages as 1.45/1.45 now, but still nothing above 7600. So aim now is to find a stable 7600. I've done a few karhu runs with different profiles but error about 30 minutes in. Will get back when I manage to get a 10k run or so in.


----------



## chibi

affxct said:


> If you care about value, buy 6400C32 820A.


I'm not too concerned about value. Just looking for the better of the two kits which will help get the max OC this IMC/Mobo is capable of.


----------



## grilli4nt

Is there a memory stability test software that stresses "hard and complex" but short? i.e., any software that can simulate gaming stability in less than like 10 minutes?


----------



## Zero989

grilli4nt said:


> Is there a memory stability test software that stresses "hard and complex" but short? i.e., any software that can simulate gaming stability in less than like 10 minutes?


Dota 2 is free, and it scales with ram just as well as SoTTR

New memtest86 as well

Overwatch also works and is free


----------



## grilli4nt

Zero989 said:


> New memtest86 as well


Is this the memtest86 I get for free in ASUS bios? A full pass is like 1 hour long.


----------



## Simkin

Any reason to buy the G.Skill 7200 kit instead of the 6800? I would guess they OC roughly the same?


----------



## grilli4nt

Simkin said:


> Any reason to buy the G.Skill 7200 kit instead of the 6800? I would guess they OC roughly the same?


I bought the 7200 first and on the z790 strix-f, I could barely get 7200xmp stable, hence, returned the ram sticks and picked up a pair of 6400 g.skill a-die. Then I switched to a z790 hero and now I am using the 6400 kits, currently running them at 7600 decent timings (I ran 40 mins of karhu stable, currently been gaming warzone 2 for about an hour, no crashes).

Edit: I would love to pick up a better binned a-dies such as the 7200 or 7600 to see if i could achieve higher ram OC than 7600 on this board. But I probably wont.


----------



## affxct

grilli4nt said:


> I tried this combo, barely (maybe) got 7200 stable using a 7200 xmp rated kit but not any 1h+ runs. Upgraded to hero and returned the 7200 kit. Now I (think) I am getting 7600 stable but havent done any 1h+ stress tests yet.


That spells even worse news for the 690-F. I’m not sure what to recommend then. I think 6400C32 A-die and the 690-F might cap off at like 6800 for real though. I guess $150 for 400MTs. Either that or save money and settle for 6800. It’s a tough choice.


----------



## affxct

I’d still go Z790. Call me crazy but I can’t deal with no 7200 support. Don’t take my advice I clearly don’t understand value 😞.


----------



## affxct

chibi said:


> I'm not too concerned about value. Just looking for the better of the two kits which will help get the max OC this IMC/Mobo is capable of.


I mean in that case 7600 makes sense.


----------



## J_Lab4645

chibi said:


> I ordered a z790-i Strix and 13900K, and now to pair it with memory. Have you guys tried the 7600 kit from Team Group yet? Just saw it hit newegg.ca.
> 
> Which is the better kit of the two? I see GSKILL has looser timing of the two. I'm going to hold off until next week. Hopefully there will be a discount with black friday.
> 
> Team Group 7600 (36-46-46-81) - $500 CAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSKILL 7600 (36-46-46-121) - $630 CAD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a human?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.ca


Z790 Hero/12900ks/13900kf (Cpu's all at default LLC/No oc/No VF offset)
Teamgroup 7200 32/42/42/84 Teamgroup 7600 36/46/46/84 = both oc to 7800mhz(no problem)
Bios 0703

Results with both cpu's and exact same timings on both sets of TG ram on Z790 Hero were the same.
I think I'm at the board's limit. I can't get to 8000mhz. (which 7800=max Asus QVL for this board) I'll try new test bios but 7800mhz on TG A-die on Z790 [email protected] I also had a pair of Gskill 7600 36/46/46/121. Couldn't even pass XMPI profile.
Memtest FAIL=Gskill 7600XMPI. PASS=TG 7200/7600/oc to 7800/tightened up at default(1.4v)! YMMV

**Can anyone here comment on A-die binning? I've seen A-die 6400-7600mhz (mfr XMP profile) achieving same 'high' frequency. (albeit w/ little to no vdd/vddq adjustment)? ....so what the heck is the difference between (low) fq kit and (high) fq kit A-die besides raising CL/tRDC/tRP by a few ns?


----------



## chibi

J_Lab4645 said:


> Z790 Hero/12900ks/13900kf (Cpu's all at default LLC/No oc/No VF offset)
> Teamgroup 7200 32/42/42/84 Teamgroup 7600 36/46/46/84 = both oc to 7800mhz(no problem)
> Bios 0703
> 
> Results with both cpu's and exact same timings on both sets of TG ram on Z790 Hero were the same.
> I think I'm at the board's limit. I can't get to 8000mhz. (which 7800=max Asus QVL for this board) I'll try new test bios but 7800mhz on TG A-die on Z790 [email protected] I also had a pair of Gskill 7600 36/46/46/121. Couldn't even pass XMPI profile.
> Memtest FAIL=Gskill 7600XMPI. PASS=TG 7200/7600/tightened up at default(1.4v)! YMMV
> 
> **Can anyone here comment on A-die binning? I've seen A-die 6400-7600mhz achieving same 'high' frequency. (albeit w/ little to no vdd/vddq adjustment)?


Thanks for sharing, the TG 7600 looks to be a steal when compared to the GS equivalent at current Newegg.ca pricing. I'm thinking to hold off until black friday next week to make the order in hopes of further discounts.


----------



## TraumatikOC

grilli4nt said:


> Is this the memtest86 I get for free in ASUS bios? A full pass is like 1 hour long.


New memtest is v10 and can be put on usb then boot into it.


----------



## Gking62

So, I ordered 64GB G.Kill 6400 (2x32GB) from Newegg to try on my rig, did so 48 hours ago for next day air, pkg never got off their dock, i.e. UPS never picked it up and, they've lost it 🙄


----------



## J_Lab4645

chibi said:


> Thanks for sharing, the TG 7600 looks to be a steal when compared to the GS equivalent at current Newegg.ca pricing. I'm thinking to hold off until black friday next week to make the order in hopes of further discounts.


I don't want to trash on Gskill because they do have some damn good looking sticks, but in my experience.....they kinda suck. I've had Gskill (1) 6000, (3) 6400, (1) 6800, and (1) 7600. The best Gskill sticks I had; I had to bin from the (3) sets of Gskill 6400 m-die. The rest I struggled with. It's like they package a 'good' stick with a 'crap' stick. If I install and can't even pass a memtest at XMPI? ....seriously!? I've just recently given Teamgroup a try and the first two sets that I've tried just kick some butt? ....w/ no vdd/vddq change? .....get me some TG! I'm not even a 'serious' OC'er. I just want a product that works.


----------



## z390e

chibi said:


> I ordered a z790-i Strix and 13900K, and now to pair it with memory. Have you guys tried the 7600 kit from Team Group yet? Just saw it hit newegg.ca.


Am curious how this small form factor board works out with a CPU like that. I looked at myself due to being a 2 DIMM board but havent seen a single person posting about their experiences with it.


----------



## energie80

J_Lab4645 said:


> I don't want to trash on Gskill because they do have some damn good looking sticks, but in my experience.....they kinda suck. I've had Gskill (1) 6000, (3) 6400, (1) 6800, and (1) 7600. The best Gskill sticks I had; I had to bin from the (3) sets of Gskill 6400 m-die. The rest I struggled with. It's like they package a 'good' stick with a 'crap' stick. If I install and can't even pass a memtest at XMPI? ....seriously!? I've just recently given Teamgroup a try and the first two sets that I've tried just kick some butt? ....w/ no vdd/vddq change? .....get me some TG! I'm not even a 'serious' OC'er. I just want a product that works.


I moved from gskill to 7600 teamgroup, stable at first boot


----------



## Agent-A01

J_Lab4645 said:


> Memtest FAIL=Gskill 7600XMPI. PASS=TG 7200/7600/oc to 7800/tightened up at default(1.4v)! YMMV


Try 0801, my 7600 kit was stable out of the box with reduce voltages.


----------



## J_Lab4645

energie80 said:


> I moved from gskill to 7600 teamgroup, stable at first boot


***last edit here:

I've seen up to a roughly 10% performance boost from 7800mhz to 8400mhz ......w/ a MASSIVE increase in V! 
....talk about diminishing returns! (on air mind you) Someone here please post a result that is not like kissing your cousin.


----------



## Simkin

J_Lab4645 said:


> I don't want to trash on Gskill because they do have some damn good looking sticks, but in my experience.....they kinda suck. I've had Gskill (1) 6000, (3) 6400, (1) 6800, and (1) 7600. The best Gskill sticks I had; I had to bin from the (3) sets of Gskill 6400 m-die. The rest I struggled with. It's like they package a 'good' stick with a 'crap' stick. If I install and can't even pass a memtest at XMPI? ....seriously!? I've just recently given Teamgroup a try and the first two sets that I've tried just kick some butt? ....w/ no vdd/vddq change? .....get me some TG! I'm not even a 'serious' OC'er. I just want a product that works.


Think im gonna try my M-Die Team Group 6200 on my coming Z790 Apex and 13900K first, my first DDR5 kit back in 2021 was G.Skill 6000 and no chance of running them on XMP, alot of instability, bsods etc.. however this was on Samsung ic not Hynix.


----------



## J_Lab4645

Simkin said:


> Think im gonna try my M-Die Team Group 6200 on my coming Z790 Apex and 13900K first, my first DDR5 kit back in 2021 was G.Skill 6000 and no chance of running them on XMP, alot of instability, bsods etc.. however this was on Samsung ic not Hynix.


the Z790 Asus mobo will make your head spin (in a good way). In regards to mem Oc- thanks Asus! We just wanted our Dimms to work! 🤪


----------



## Baka_boy

chibi said:


> Thanks for sharing, the TG 7600 looks to be a steal when compared to the GS equivalent at current Newegg.ca pricing. I'm thinking to hold off until black friday next week to make the order in hopes of further discounts.


I just don't like the "looks" myself, which is the only reason I don't buy it.


----------



## Minciu

What do You think about Aorus Z790 Elite ? Well price MB with features what im interested in. But i dont know it will be beter for memory OC vs Strix-F Z690 or not?  








Z790 AORUS ELITE AX (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com


----------



## chibi

Baka_boy said:


> I just don't like the "looks" myself, which is the only reason I don't buy it.


Same, the team group looks terrible compared to gskill. I will remove the heatspreaker and replace. I would like for the high speed 7200+ kits to come without RGB though.


----------



## Wilco183

Baka_boy said:


> I just don't like the "looks" myself, which is the only reason I don't buy it.


I felt the same way when looking for a d4 board already having a Z690 Hero...the Strix A was not to my visual liking. Bought it anyway and now it just comes across as non-invasive dark gray/silver through the semi-tint window, not hard on the eyes at all.


----------



## asdkj1740

J_Lab4645 said:


> I don't want to trash on Gskill because they do have some damn good looking sticks, but in my experience.....they kinda suck. I've had Gskill (1) 6000, (3) 6400, (1) 6800, and (1) 7600. The best Gskill sticks I had; I had to bin from the (3) sets of Gskill 6400 m-die. The rest I struggled with. It's like they package a 'good' stick with a 'crap' stick. If I install and can't even pass a memtest at XMPI? ....seriously!? I've just recently given Teamgroup a try and the first two sets that I've tried just kick some butt? ....w/ no vdd/vddq change? .....get me some TG! I'm not even a 'serious' OC'er. I just want a product that works.


i dont think trident z5 looks any better than trident z ddr4.


----------



## grilli4nt

J_Lab4645 said:


> Z790 Hero/12900ks/13900kf (Cpu's all at default LLC/No oc/No VF offset)
> Teamgroup 7200 32/42/42/84 Teamgroup 7600 36/46/46/84 = both oc to 7800mhz(no problem)
> Bios 0703
> 
> Results with both cpu's and exact same timings on both sets of TG ram on Z790 Hero were the same.
> I think I'm at the board's limit. I can't get to 8000mhz. (which 7800=max Asus QVL for this board) I'll try new test bios but 7800mhz on TG A-die on Z790 [email protected] I also had a pair of Gskill 7600 36/46/46/121. Couldn't even pass XMPI profile.
> Memtest FAIL=Gskill 7600XMPI. PASS=TG 7200/7600/oc to 7800/tightened up at default(1.4v)! YMMV
> 
> **Can anyone here comment on A-die binning? I've seen A-die 6400-7600mhz (mfr XMP profile) achieving same 'high' frequency. (albeit w/ little to no vdd/vddq adjustment)? ....so what the heck is the difference between (low) fq kit and (high) fq kit A-die besides raising CL/tRDC/tRP by a few ns?


Not sure, currently running my 6400c32 kits at 7600c34 with slightly improved timings at 1.46/1.43 vdd/vddq on the z790 hero. I had the 7200-rated kit also but that was back when I had the z790 strix-f which couldn’t get either of the two kits stable at 7200c34 (i.e not even xmp on the 7200 kit) hence me returning it for the hero. If I still had the 7200 kit now when I’ve switched mobo maybe it could give me 7800 or even 8000 who knows as they would probably be capable of those speeds without increasing dimm voltage, because I’ve noticed that when bringing up the dimm voltages both on strix-f and hero it just increases instability (or I’m doing something wrong). I’m on air and max out a bit over 45 deg during karhu.
Currently at ~5000% stable in karhu with vdd/vddq 1.46/1.43/tx 1.4/imc 1.41825/sa 1.25 at 7600cl34-45-45-54 trfc 480 tRefi auto(as my sticks go above 50c in gaming due to aircooled 4090) and I’ve read somewhere tRefi is very heat sensitive so kept it auto.

Even though I’m happy with these results, moar wants moar @affxct  Will give it another go tomorrow at 7800 or 8000. Given my numbers, anyone can recommend what I should try in terms of voltage strategy? So hard to work out what is the cause of instability..


----------



## droid99

Guys my friend bought new PC, can you confirm is it good setting for DDR5 ram? 16gb x2 6200Mhz (stock speed - XMP), 13700K, mobo Asus Z790-A Prime Wi-Fi. Is it Gear 1 or Gear 2? How to make sure? What should be changed to make it better, i mean more fps in games/better ram performance?
She upgraded from 8700K, 3800mhz 32gb ddr4 ram and has still same fps on 1080p, gpu rtx 2080




















@Zero989 can you look at it? I added SPD screenshot


----------



## Zero989

droid99 said:


> Guys my friend bought new PC, can you confirm is it good setting for DDR5 ram? 16gb x2 6200Mhz (stock speed - XMP), 13700K, mobo Asus Z790-A Prime Wi-Fi. Is it Gear 1 or Gear 2? How to make sure? What should be changed to make it better, i mean more fps in games?
> She upgraded from 8700K, 3800mhz 32gb ddr4 ram and has still same fps on 1080p, gpu rtx 2080
> 
> View attachment 2583481


Likely M-Die, need to see the SPD page. And of course that's in Gear 2. Just set to 6400 MT/s and call it a day if neither of you know what to change.


----------



## Xavier233

Hi guys, I need help.

Z690 apex, 12900k, gskill 6000 (stock). Cannot pass memtest, even with 1.44v.. Now I know why am getting bsods, specially after I updated mobo bios to the latest version (released in Oct I believe).

Any way to make it this thing stable to pass memtest STOCK? Am not even trying to OC it.. Just want to run it stock. CPU runs benchmarks no issues, pretty sure it's the ram. Worst worst case I could get another kit, but it has to be rock solid, no tweaking. Am trying xmp1 and xmp2. My older bios was better, but I don't think Asus allows to go back now. 

Any suggestions? Thank you


----------



## satinghostrider

DELETE


----------



## satinghostrider

Xavier233 said:


> Hi guys, I need help.
> 
> Z690 apex, 12900k, gskill 6000 (stock). Cannot pass memtest, even with 1.44v.. Now I know why am getting bsods, specially after I updated mobo bios to the latest version (released in Oct I believe).
> 
> Any way to make it this thing stable to pass memtest STOCK? Am not even trying to OC it.. Just want to run it stock. CPU runs benchmarks no issues, pretty sure it's the ram. Worst worst case I could get another kit, but it has to be rock solid, no tweaking. Am trying xmp1 and xmp2. My older bios was better, but I don't think Asus allows to go back now.
> 
> Any suggestions? Thank you


Which bios are you on?


----------



## Xavier233

satinghostrider said:


> Which bios are you on?


2103, released in October


----------



## satinghostrider

Xavier233 said:


> 2103, released in October


No no you gotta use the latest beta ones posted by Shamino. Alot of memory improvements.

Before you do this, you must update in the following order :

1) Latest ME Drivers









File on MEGA







mega.nz





2) Latest ME Firmware









2.22 MB file on MEGA







mega.nz





3) Latest BETA Bios

ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-2201.zip (dropbox.com)

*LOAD OPTIMZED DEFAULTS BEFORE FLASHING*

Make sure you rename the bios file before flashing. Good luck!


----------



## energie80

seems like i cant push my teamgroup more then 7600 on unifyx, could be mainboard limit?


----------



## cstkl1

Intel i9 13900k - 55|46|[email protected] LLC7
Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0802
G.Skill - F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
8400 [email protected] 
MC 1.55, SA +0.350, L2 +0.100

0802-M15A-8400C34.CMO


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> Intel i9 13900k - 55|46|[email protected] LLC7
> Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0802
> G.Skill - F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 8400 [email protected]
> MC 1.55, SA +0.350, L2 +0.100
> 
> 0802-M15A-8400C34.CMO


The g.skill 7600 I'm testing need 0.1v more on "same" settings.
Is your g.skill God bin, or the one I'm testing trash bin?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> The g.skill 7600 I'm testing need 0.1v more on "same" settings.
> Is your g.skill God bin, or the one I'm testing trash bin?


i have no idea. generally i judge ram good based on trfc it can run on a tcl

also i find tref maxed out needs to be trained after timings are trained say if loading from load optimize state

but if using 261120. dont need.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

energie80 said:


> seems like i cant push my teamgroup more then 7600 on unifyx, could be mainboard limit?


More likely Bios limit. Wait new betas


----------



## Xavier233

satinghostrider said:


> No no you gotta use the latest beta ones posted by Shamino. Alot of memory improvements.
> 
> Before you do this, you must update in the following order :
> 
> 1) Latest ME Drivers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> File on MEGA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mega.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Latest ME Firmware
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.22 MB file on MEGA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mega.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Latest BETA Bios
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-2201.zip (dropbox.com)
> 
> *LOAD OPTIMZED DEFAULTS BEFORE FLASHING*
> 
> Make sure you rename the bios file before flashing. Good luck!


Thanks I will try those.

Whats the maximum frequency would the z690 apex support in terms of ddr5?

Also what's the safe highest daily voltage I can push the Gskill 6000? At 1.43 and up I get less errors, but it still fails at some point.

If those Team Group kits are more stable and work out the box, which kit can I get on the z690 that works without tweaking?


----------



## max225719

Hey guys I could use some help, Corsair Dominator 6200. I had 7200 G.Skill but I could not get that stable so here we are. Looking at my results at stock my latency looks high. Could you guys please look this over for me? Thank you!


----------



## satinghostrider

Xavier233 said:


> If you guys
> Thanks I will try those.
> 
> Whats the maximum frequency would the z690 apex support in terms of ddr5?
> 
> Also what's the safe highest daily voltage I can push the Gskill 6000? At 1.43 and up I get less errors, but it still fails at some point.
> 
> If those Team Group kits are more stable and work out the box, which kit can I get on the z690 that works without tweaking?


Try the bios first.
Is yours a 2021 or 2022 board?


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

I am running my Gskill 7600 CL32 Kits at Stock Timing with 7800 and some minor voltages adjustments on my z790 Hero Board.

i cant get 8000 stable on this 4 dimmer board so any hints/timings/voltages to do 7800CL34 or CL32?


----------



## energie80

jonny.brechbuehl said:


> I am running my Gskill 7600 CL32 Kits at Stock Timing with 7800 and some minor voltages adjustments on my z790 Hero Board.
> 
> i cant get 8000 stable on this 4 dimmer board so any hints/timings/voltages to do 7800CL34 or CL32?


Can you post settings and voltages?


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

energie80 said:


> Can you post settings and voltages?


For 7800CL36 or what do you mean?


----------



## energie80

Yea why not


----------



## Xavier233

satinghostrider said:


> Try the bios first.
> Is yours a 2021 or 2022 board?


I bought the board on Mar 2022, but it could well be from older 2021 stock. Anyway to tell for sure? 

My Jan 2022 BIOS seems more stable than the one from October. As soon as I flashed it, its been a BSOS hell. 

At this point I just want ANY DDR5 to work stable (I use my PC for work) at stock settings


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

Gskill 7600CL36 at 7800CL36 fully stable (Stock Timmings)

SA Voltage 1.15 (1.2 in the screenshot is wrong), VDD & VDDQ 1.435, IVR TX 1.4, MC 1.35


----------



## energie80

Man 1.5 is too high


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

it's 1.15v. sorry for that wrong number


----------



## jeiselramos

energie80 said:


> Man 1.5 is too high


Asus turn it yellow at 1.53 🤣


----------



## BenchAndGames

delete


----------



## z390e

chibi said:


> Same, the team group looks terrible compared to gskill.


This is the oddest comment I have ever seen in an OC forum. How much time in a year do you think you or anyone you know spends looking at your DIMMs?

I would expect this comment over in the apple forum, not the DDR5 OC forum.


----------



## 673714

TraumatikOC said:


> For comparison on my experiences, i had the z690 extreme and i thought it was my cpus imc holding me back but it def was my mobo, 2 12900k 2 12900ks and a 13900k all didnt want to go over 6200 with major tweaks to get it stable at 2x16 gskill and TG at 6200.
> Got this z790 hero , cant be happier, my 3 kits work at xmp ( no fiddling with tweaks ) the gskill 7200 2x16 kit just worked with xmp1, then i used the asus ram profile for hynix 7600 , and working with tighter timings and 7600.


I've said it before, you got an awful Z690 and should RMA  



affxct said:


> Unfortunately - yes. Expect maybe 6800MT/s out of the Z690-F (M- or A-die; all that will change is the VDD requirement). From the Z790, expect like +800-1000MT/s. ASUS gave their new boards the special sauce topology from the M0UAY1 boards (maybe an even more revised version of that).


I did an advanced RMA and got what is obviously a better version than M0UAY1.
Now XMP works and I can tinker with things and game all day without BSOD and that was impossible for my 2021 Z690 Extreme and I tried 4 different DDR5 kits. 1x 6000MHz, 2x 6400MHz, 1x 6600MHz. That's why I think a good Z690 may be just as good as Z790, only with less USB ports


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> Intel i9 13900k - 55|46|[email protected] LLC7
> Asus Z790 Apex - Bios 0802
> G.Skill - F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 8400 [email protected]
> MC 1.55, SA +0.350, L2 +0.100
> 
> 0802-M15A-8400C34.CMO


Looking good to do 8400 c34.47.47 with only 1.55 , but i have the same sticks on water and either, your sticks is very good binned or your sub timings is very loose. Care to share your subs ?


----------



## chibi

z390e said:


> This is the oddest comment I have ever seen in an OC forum. How much time in a year do you think you or anyone you know spends looking at your DIMMs?
> 
> I would expect this comment over in the apple forum, not the DDR5 OC forum.


That's just one end of the spectrum. Just because I can oc, doesn't mean I have to be 100% function over form. Why can't I have a good to me looking pc while overclocking?


----------



## Carillo

What we all ( at least me 😅 ) have been waiting for , SP rating on IMC bios 0031. Mine is SP 77, what is yours ?


----------



## Kjsoak

Mine MC SP is 65 on a hero z790 running gskill 7600 cl36 sticks only up to 7400 stable with the xmp tweaked settings.


----------



## Xavier233

Hi all, according to the QVL mem list for the Z690 APEX, the max supported DDR5 speed is 6600 from Team Group Delta. This is surprisingly low... 

Did anyone with the Z690 able to use the 6600 DDR5 kits from TeamGroup? 

Another question: which would be better Micron memory or Hynix for the Team Group Delta kits?


----------



## aznsniper911

TraumatikOC said:


> For comparison on my experiences, i had the z690 extreme and i thought it was my cpus imc holding me back but it def was my mobo, 2 12900k 2 12900ks and a 13900k all didnt want to go over 6200 with major tweaks to get it stable at 2x16 gskill and TG at 6200.
> Got this z790 hero , cant be happier, my 3 kits work at xmp ( no fiddling with tweaks ) the gskill 7200 2x16 kit just worked with xmp1, then i used the asus ram profile for hynix 7600 , and working with tighter timings and 7600.


That’s an awful bin of the board, my z690 extreme can do 7400 on A die


----------



## Carillo

Xavier233 said:


> Hi all, according to the QVL mem list for the Z690 APEX, the max supported DDR5 speed is 6600 from Team Group Delta. This is surprisingly low...
> 
> Did anyone with the Z690 able to use the 6600 DDR5 kits from TeamGroup?
> 
> Another question: which would be better Micron memory or Hynix for the Team Group Delta kits?


100% Micron 


EDIT : This is just a joke. Hynix of course is the way to go


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Looking good to do 8400 c34.47.47 with only 1.55 , but i have the same sticks on water and either, your sticks is very good binned or your sub timings is very loose. Care to share your subs ?


i shared the setting on the cmo above bro

running some extended test on 8533 atm


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> i shared the setting on the cmo above bro
> 
> running some extended test on 8533 atm


Much easier to just share mem tweak it when you post ?  There is like 10 persons in the whole world that currently owns a Z790 Apex, so who is going to use that CMO file ?


----------



## Nizzen

Testing 0031 with my "go to" settings on 8200c32:
Looks VERY stable 

Green Hynix A-die is still going strong 😎
Edit I messed the screen shot. Ramtest over the voltages LOL.


----------



## Agent-A01

Carillo said:


> What we all ( at least me 😅 ) have been waiting for , SP rating on IMC bios 0031. Mine is SP 77, what is yours ?
> View attachment 2583586


I guess this MC SP score is on a new beta bios? I don't remember seeing that.


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> Testing 0031 with my "go to" settings on 8200c32:
> Looks VERY stable
> 
> Green Hynix A-die is still going strong 😎
> Edit I messed the screen shot. Ramtest over the voltages LOL.
> 
> View attachment 2583600
> 
> View attachment 2583599
> 
> View attachment 2583599


Nice, update main page with IMC SP please


----------



## sugi0lover

stable 8800 cl38 by Doojin

*Hynix 5600 A-Die VDD 1.68v (bios 1.76v), VDDQ 1.66v(Bios 1.74v), TX 1.4v, MC 1.55v, SA 1.2v*


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> stable 8800 cl38 by Doojin
> 
> *Hynix 5600 A-Die VDD 1.68v (bios 1.76v), VDDQ 1.66v(Bios 1.74v), TX 1.4v, MC 1.55v, SA 1.2v*
> View attachment 2583605
> 
> 
> View attachment 2583606


SP 2000 IMC


----------



## Carillo

Agent-A01 said:


> I guess this MC SP score is on a new beta bios? I don't remember seeing that.


Yes. Newest bios


----------



## z390e

@sugi0lover why DIMM1 SPD hub temps so much higher than DIMM2 in that pic? I been seeing some similar oddness with DIMM1 temps in new AIDA sometimes.


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

cstkl1 said:


> i shared the setting on the cmo above bro
> 
> running some extended test on 8533 atm


dont got an apex board. maybe you can share the subtimmings, thx


----------



## jeiselramos

Carillo said:


> Yes. Newest bios


Only z790?


----------



## Carillo

jeiselramos said:


> Only z790?


I think shamino is working on MC rating for z690 bioses as we speak.


----------



## chibi

Carillo, is there beta bios for z790-i strix board that shows the imc sp?


----------



## Agent-A01

Carillo said:


> Yes. Newest bios


Mine is 72.

The question is how is it calculated?
I wonder if board affects the score. i.e. apex may need less voltages for the same clock speeds


----------



## Carillo

chibi said:


> Carillo, is there beta bios for z790-i strix board that shows the imc sp?


As far as I can see, the latest beta for Strix-I is 0801, so no. But it's probably right around the corner.


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

Agent-A01 said:


> Mine is 72.
> 
> The question is how is it calculated?
> I wonder if board affects the score. i.e. apex may need less voltages for the same clock speeds


mine is 74. is that good/bad?


----------



## Carillo

jonny.brechbuehl said:


> mine is 74. is that good/bad?


How on earth can anyone know that 5 minutes after we see these numbers for the first time? 😅 The more data we can collect the more it will start meaning something. Right now it's only a number. Eventually we can form a picture of what is good, bad and average


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

Carillo said:


> How on earth can anyone know that 5 minutes after we see these numbers for the first time? 😅 The more data we can collect the more it will start meaning something. Right now it's only a number. Eventually we can form a picture of what is good, bad and average


Maybe someone knows shamino and know it?


----------



## Xavier233

Xavier233 said:


> Hi all, according to the QVL mem list for the Z690 APEX, the max supported DDR5 speed is 6600 from Team Group Delta. This is surprisingly low...
> 
> Did anyone with the Z690 able to use the 6600 DDR5 kits from TeamGroup?
> 
> Another question: which would be better Micron memory or Hynix for the Team Group Delta kits?


Anyone?


----------



## Xavier233

Carillo said:


> 100% Micron
> 
> 
> EDIT : This is just a joke. Hynix of course is the way to go


Most of the kits I see for sale actually are using the Micron chips. Are they that bad if all I want is a stable DDR5 kit which runs at STOCK speeds (no OC)?


----------



## bscool

Xavier233 said:


> Anyone?


If you havent tested each slot individually yet I would do that before wasting more time buying more ram. 2021 Apex are known to have issues with slot 1 on many MB. Run something like y cruncher 2.5 or Karhu and if slot 1 is 400 to 600 lower than slot 2 you know the issue.

Example on my 2021 Apex slot 1/chA can do 6600 and slot2/chB7000. 2022 Apex both can do 7000. So no matter what I do 2021 with weak slot1/cha will never do more than 6600 in best case. Find what your slot1/chA can do.

Hynix M die will be your best bet for z690 Apex for easiest to get stable.

Edit some got slot1/chA that would only do 5600 so if thats the case you will never run 6000XMP. RMA the MB if thats the case or run 5600.


----------



## newls1

Can someone please tell me what are common tighter timings I can achieve with this ram 








G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-7200 PC5-57600 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center


Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...




www.microcenter.com





Hoping to dial in 7600, but what timings and voltages should I first attempt with? Could someone maybe please post up a asrock timing config page using A-Die or this similiar ram so I can have some sort of solid guess work to start with?! Be super appreicated!


----------



## Simkin

Xavier233 said:


> Most of the kits I see for sale actually are using the Micron chips. Are they that bad if all I want is a stable DDR5 kit which runs at STOCK speeds (no OC)?


Stock DDR5 JEDEC is 4800Mhz, anything over this is OC.

Atleast this go for the 12900K if i remember correctly.


----------



## TraumatikOC

LilOliVert said:


> I've said it before, you got an awful Z690 and should RMA
> 
> 
> 
> I did an advanced RMA and got what is obviously a better version than M0UAY1.
> Now XMP works and I can tinker with things and game all day without BSOD and that was impossible for my 2021 Z690 Extreme and I tried 4 different DDR5 kits. 1x 6000MHz, 2x 6400MHz, 1x 6600MHz. That's why I think a good Z690 may be just as good as Z790, only with less USB ports


Im just gonna sell it, too many horror stories about ASUS rma processes, customers either getting boards back with cpu pins bent, a small scratch on the vrm heatsink asus said board damaged by user and No rma, things like that


----------



## Carillo

Xavier233 said:


> Most of the kits I see for sale actually are using the Micron chips. Are they that bad if all I want is a stable DDR5 kit which runs at STOCK speeds (no OC)?


I only tried micron when it first came out last year, and back then it was a nightmare... but i don't know anything regarding stability with todays bioses.


----------



## Xavier233

bscool said:


> If you havent tested each slot individually yet I would do that before wasting more time buying more ram. 2021 Apex are known to have issues with slot 1 on many MB. Run something like y cruncher 2.5 or Karhu and if slot 1 is 400 to 600 lower than slot 2 you know the issue.
> 
> Example on my 2021 Apex slot 1/chA can do 6600 and slot2/chB7000. 2022 Apex both can do 7000. So no matter what I do 2021 with weak slot1/cha will never do more than 6600 in best case. Find what your slot1/chA can do.
> 
> Hynix M die will be your best bet for z690 Apex for easiest to get stable.
> 
> Edit some got slot1/chA that would only do 5600 so if thats the case you will never run 6000XMP. RMA the MB if thats the case or run 5600.


Thanks, I have some questions:

1) Any way I can know for sure if my mobo is 2021 or 2022?

2) If my mobo passes say 1 run on memtest (running XMP1 or 2 at 6000 Mhz, which is the rated speed of my kit), but fails on the second run of memtest, would u conclude its a BIOS issue, a mobo slot issue or a RAM itself issue?

3) How can I run cruncher and know if slot 1 is lower?

Thank you


----------



## chibi

Do a quick run in Slot 2 at 7000. Make sure it posts, and passes.

Shut down and try the same 7000 in slot 1. If it fails to post, retry at 6800, 6600, 6400 etc until you come to a conclusion of your board.

2021 vs 2022, you can look at the label on the side of the board. It will say manufacture 2022 if you have a newer board. If it does not say anything, then it's an older 2021 board. Look for the white label with the serial number, part number etc.


----------



## Gking62

Ok, finally got the G.Skill 6400 (2x32GB) kit delivered, doing some memtesting as I write, so atm just trying to get set at rated speed, will tune from there...what voltage settings at least for XMP would be appropriate? my first run with vdd,vddq, IVR vddq all @ 1.45v, MC @ Auto 1.385v SA @ Auto 1.249v got nearly all way thru test#1 but threw a single cpu error, then into test #2 threw a few more, how high is too high on TX vddq, SA, MC voltages?Voltages?

I'm merely trying to see how far I can get with a 64GB kit but thinking perhaps I may be better off on a 32G (2x16GB), main reason I'm trying with 64GB is for DCS World MP, otherwise 32G would certainly suffice. I frankly don't want to move to a new board until next year.


----------



## Xavier233

chibi said:


> Do a quick run in Slot 2 at 7000. Make sure it posts, and passes.
> 
> Shut down and try the same 7000 in slot 1. If it fails to post, retry at 6800, 6600, 6400 etc until you come to a conclusion of your board.
> 
> 2021 vs 2022, you can look at the label on the side of the board. It will say manufacture 2022 if you have a newer board. If it does not say anything, then it's an older 2021 board. Look for the white label with the serial number, part number etc.





chibi said:


> Do a quick run in Slot 2 at 7000. Make sure it posts, and passes.
> 
> Shut down and try the same 7000 in slot 1. If it fails to post, retry at 6800, 6600, 6400 etc until you come to a conclusion of your board.
> 
> 2021 vs 2022, you can look at the label on the side of the board. It will say manufacture 2022 if you have a newer board. If it does not say anything, then it's an older 2021 board. Look for the white label with the serial number, part number etc.


My goal is to run my Gskill 6000Mhz at its rated speed (6000). With both DIMM slots (16gb on each), I am able to run to windows, etc. I just get errors on memtest. I am assuming that this means the board can handle 6000 on both slots, or that might not even be true? My only goal is to have this kit run stable at 6000, which is the rated kit speed, without errors in memtest


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Can someone please tell me what are common tighter timings I can achieve with this ram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-7200 PC5-57600 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping to dial in 7600, but what timings and voltages should I first attempt with? Could someone maybe please post up a asrock timing config page using A-Die or this similiar ram so I can have some sort of solid guess work to start with?! Be super appreicated!


We are posting a-die results with timings and "voltages" several times a day. What more do you need?
Visit me in Norway, and I will guide you personaly 









I'm running this timings with both green hynix and g.skill 7600.


----------



## bscool

Xavier233 said:


> Thanks, I have some questions:
> 
> 1) Any way I can know for sure if my mobo is 2021 or 2022?
> 
> 2) If my mobo passes say 1 run on memtest (running XMP1 or 2 at 6000 Mhz, which is the rated speed of my kit), but fails on the second run of memtest, would u conclude its a BIOS issue, a mobo slot issue or a RAM itself issue?
> 
> 3) How can I run cruncher and know if slot 1 is lower?
> 
> Thank you


It might be on the edge of stability if you are stable one boot and not the next or might need more voltage on vdd/vvddq etc.

I use BenchMate for simplicity to run 2.5b y cruncher. Test each slot individually and if slot1/chA is much lower then you know that will be the limit if your MB. Usually chB will be slightly better. I just use y cruncher as a quick way to get an idea of the memory/MB/IMC etc limits. It is not an end all just a quick way I found to rule out a weak slot/dim(timing/voltage etc).

On the box it will say 2022 if so.


----------



## Xavier233

bscool said:


> It might be on the edge of stability if you are stable one boot and not the next or might need more voltage on vdd/vvddq etc.
> 
> I use BenchMate for simplicity to run 2.5b y cruncher. Test each slot individually and if slot1/chA is much lower then you know that will be the limit if your MB. Usually chB will be slightly better.
> 
> On the box it will say 2022 if so.


Mine is a 2021, but not the Nov 2021 that many boards seem to have most issues with. So mine does boot, run games at 6000 Mhz, so can we assume that its not the DIMM slots at this point? Sometimes I can run a full TEST1 memetest without errors, and then some errors on TEST2, so am thinking its not the mobo itself at this point? 

I might just need the right BIOS or its the RAM kit itself?


----------



## bscool

Xavier233 said:


> Mine is a 2021, but not the Nov 2021 that many boards seem to have most issues with. So mine does boot, run games at 6000 Mhz, so can we assume that its not the DIMM slots at this point? Sometimes I can run a full TEST1 memetest without errors, and then some errors on TEST2, so am thinking its not the mobo itself at this point?
> 
> I might just need the right BIOS or its the RAM kit itself?


Booting means nothing, I can boot 7000 on my 2021 but passing y cruncher or Karhu is another thing.

Test each stick in chB/slot 2 and find if 1 is weaker.

What memtest are you using? The one in the bios? If so that is not a very good memtest, but it is better than nothing. Use something like tm5 1 usmus and the y cruncher like I suggested.









Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs


Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app




www.overclock.net





I really doubt a bios is going to help, z690 Apex has been out close to a year. I wouldnt count on a new bios helping. Just from what your saying I would guess it is the MB chA. But until you test it you wont know. If you can run y cruncher and tm5/Karhu at 6000 in Windows then next boot you can it is probably a voltage/timing.


----------



## Xavier233

bscool said:


> Booting means nothing, I can boot 7000 on my 2021 but passing y cruncher or Karhu is another thing.
> 
> Test each stick in chB/slot 2 and find if 1 is weaker.
> 
> What memtest are you using? The one in the bios? If so that is not a very good memtest, but it is better than nothing. Use something like tm5 1 usmus and the y cruncher like I suggested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really doubt a bios is going to help, z690 Apex has been out close to a year. I wouldnt count on a new bios helping. Just from what your saying I would guess it is the MB chA. But until you test it you wont know. If you can run y cruncher and tm5/Karhu at 6000 in Windows then next boot you can it is probably a voltage/timing.


Yes I have been using the memtest that comes with the mobo, v9.3 if I remember. 

The reason why I think its BIOS/Voltage related, is the fact that it can pass lets say a full run (1 out of 4) of memtest without errors. Also, I cannot really RMA since I use this machine for work. I rather buy a new Z790 Hero or Apex than wait for RMAing the Z690 Apex at this point.


----------



## Agent-A01

jonny.brechbuehl said:


> mine is 74. is that good/bad?


Don't know yet, shamino or someone else may have more data(they have access to many more CPUs).


----------



## Gking62

So, the G.Skill 64GB (2x32GB) did not play well on my Z690 Extreme, so I'd like to know what's the fastest 32GB kit (2x16GB) kit those with the same board have gotten to work? I'm on the Kingston 64GB 5600 kit which works great for my needs which is mainly flight simulators, gaming doesn't need any faster, nevertheless was looking for a bit of a bump given adding my 13900K, just a bit disappointed with this G.Skill kit.


----------



## Minciu

Simkin said:


> Stock DDR5 JEDEC is 4800Mhz, anything over this is OC.
> 
> Atleast this go for the 12900K if i remember correctly.


Second gen DDR5 now have 5600 JEDEC. And probably 1-2q 2023 it will have 6400 JEDEC.





JEDEC Publishes Update to DDR5 SDRAM Standard Used in High-Performance Computing Applications | JEDEC







www.jedec.org


----------



## Xavier233

bscool said:


> Booting means nothing, I can boot 7000 on my 2021 but passing y cruncher or Karhu is another thing.
> 
> Test each stick in chB/slot 2 and find if 1 is weaker.
> 
> What memtest are you using? The one in the bios? If so that is not a very good memtest, but it is better than nothing. Use something like tm5 1 usmus and the y cruncher like I suggested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs
> 
> 
> Hello everybody I am just making a very light tutorial with a collection of custom config files and a DOWNLOAD LINK for TM5 v0.12 anta777 absolut config *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread None of the work is mine but it seems like a pretty good and fast testing app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really doubt a bios is going to help, z690 Apex has been out close to a year. I wouldnt count on a new bios helping. Just from what your saying I would guess it is the MB chA. But until you test it you wont know. If you can run y cruncher and tm5/Karhu at 6000 in Windows then next boot you can it is probably a voltage/timing.


What would this mean or be caused by?


----------



## bscool

.


Xavier233 said:


> What would this mean or be caused by?
> 
> View attachment 2583656


Not stable. Do you have the cpu stock or OC? If stock most likely memory unstable.

Test like I said 1 dim slot and stick at a time. Start lower like say 5600 and then go up seeing what passes.

You are failing less than a second in it must be really unstable.


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> We are posting a-die results with timings and "voltages" several times a day. What more do you need?
> Visit me in Norway, and I will guide you personaly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running this timings with both green hynix and g.skill 7600.


I just got back from MC and they didnt have the 7200's but they did have the 7600's so I got them. Im just hoping for 7600 out of them with decent to tight timings. You think my secondaries and teriaries from my 7000 M-die kit will still work with 7600 A die?


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> I just got back from MC and they didnt have the 7200's but they did have the 7600's so I got them. Im just hoping for 7600 out of them with decent to tight timings. You think my secondaries and teriaries from my 7000 M-die kit will still work with 7600 A die?


I doubt they will work. Also get the lastes bios is has A die optimization in it.

There is suppose to be another one coming soon that is better.






E7D28IMS.A84







drive.google.com


----------



## Xavier233

bscool said:


> .
> 
> Not stable. Do you have the cpu stock or OC? If stock most likely memory unstable.
> 
> Test like I said 1 dim slot and stick at a time. Start lower like say 5600 and then go up seeing what passes.
> 
> You are failing less than a second in it must be really unstable.


Will do. My CPU is slightly undervolted. Whats that unable to acquire the permission error? Normal?


----------



## bscool

Xavier233 said:


> Will do. My CPU is slightly undervolted. Whats that unable to acquire the permission error? Normal?


I dont rememeber every seeing that mesage. Just the pic you posted is something unstable and most likely memory/imc related if cpu is at stock.

Edit maybe it has to do with your Windows versions(11 I run 10) or setting as for the other messages. If they show up I never noticed them.


----------



## Xavier233

bscool said:


> I dont rememeber every seeing that error. Just the pic you posted is something unstable and most likely memory/imc related if cpu is at stock.


Does it make sense to pass memtest full first run#1 but fail instantly within 1 second on y-cruncher? Maybe the app does not have permissions to run properly. I can run games without issues.


----------



## bscool

Xavier233 said:


> Does it make sense to pass memtest full first run#1 but fail instantly within 1 second on y-cruncher? Maybe the app does not have permissions to run properly. I can run games without issues.


Yeah that memtest is not very good. Did you try tm5 I posted before 1usmus?

Also lower your mem to jdec and see if it runs. If it still fails y cruncher then we can see.


----------



## newls1

Please help me out here.... Trying to stabilize my 7600 A-Die and went back to completely XMP profile, and cant get stability with my Unify X @ xmp 7600... It is defaulting my CPU VDDQ voltage to 1.50 is that to high? Im looking for base line voltage settings for CPU VDDQ and CPU VDD2 ? I have Vdimm @ 1.425 (Stock 7600 is 1.40)


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Please help me out here.... Trying to stabilize my 7600 A-Die and went back to completely XMP profile, and cant get stability with my Unify X @ xmp 7600... It is defaulting my CPU VDDQ voltage to 1.50 is that to high? Im looking for base line voltage settings for CPU VDDQ and CPU VDD2 ? I have Vdimm @ 1.425 (Stock 7600 is 1.40)


Watercooled dimms? Then use 1.65v VDD and 1.6VDDQ just to rule out too less v-dimm 
There is no need for more Vdimm on XMP 7600. It's enough. Something else is stopping you. Temp or bios.


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Watercooled dimms? Then use 1.65v VDD and 1.6VDDQ just to rule out too less v-dimm
> There is no need for more Vdimm on XMP 7600. It's enough. Something else is stopping you. Temp or bios.


CPU VDDQ was my issue... I had it @ 1.385 using my M-Dies but just now tried auto and 1.50 boots and y cruncher passes. IS 1.50 CPU VDDQ to high?


----------



## newls1

absolute stock XMP profile here but @ 7600 CPU VDDQ auto'd to 1.60!! YIKES I dropped it to 1.450 and still booted.... Can you please look at my IMC/mem voltages in this pic and see if they are safe to run?


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> CPU VDDQ was my issue... I had it @ 1.385 using my M-Dies but just now tried auto and 1.50 boots and y cruncher passes. IS 1.50 CPU VDDQ to high?


1.5 is no problem at all. I'm running 1.7v as we speak LOL
Allways cool the dimms, ALLWAYS 

Some good 7600 kits does 8000+ on 1.5v only. (depends on timings)

VDD2 (MC voltage) @ 1.4 is enough for 8000mhz most likely. Try 8k and 1.5VDD/ 1.47VDDQ 
SA @ 1.2 is also enough for 8000mhz.


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> absolute stock XMP profile here but @ 7600 CPU VDDQ auto'd to 1.60!! YIKES I dropped it to 1.450 and still booted.... Can you please look at my IMC/mem voltages in this pic and see if they are safe to run?


Set VDDQ the same or lower than VDD. Like 1.43VDD - 1.4VDDQ
Your "voltages" is too safe for OCN LOL 😘


----------



## J_Lab4645

grilli4nt said:


> Not sure, currently running my 6400c32 kits at 7600c34 with slightly improved timings at 1.46/1.43 vdd/vddq on the z790 hero. I had the 7200-rated kit also but that was back when I had the z790 strix-f which couldn’t get either of the two kits stable at 7200c34 (i.e not even xmp on the 7200 kit) hence me returning it for the hero. If I still had the 7200 kit now when I’ve switched mobo maybe it could give me 7800 or even 8000 who knows as they would probably be capable of those speeds without increasing dimm voltage, because I’ve noticed that when bringing up the dimm voltages both on strix-f and hero it just increases instability (or I’m doing something wrong). I’m on air and max out a bit over 45 deg during karhu.
> Currently at ~5000% stable in karhu with vdd/vddq 1.46/1.43/tx 1.4/imc 1.41825/sa 1.25 at 7600cl34-45-45-54 trfc 480 tRefi auto(as my sticks go above 50c in gaming due to aircooled 4090) and I’ve read somewhere tRefi is very heat sensitive so kept it auto.
> 
> Even though I’m happy with these results, moar wants moar @affxct  Will give it another go tomorrow at 7800 or 8000. Given my numbers, anyone can recommend what I should try in terms of voltage strategy? So hard to work out what is the cause of instability..


I stand corrected- Outstanding! (I never even tried to blast my 6400Gskill on the new Z790). ......but I'll say it again...Z790 Asus mobo compared to Z690 Asus mobo are like night & day. ....off to snap in the Gskill m-die and ravage it.


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> 1.5 is no problem at all. I'm running 1.7v as we speak LOL
> Allways cool the dimms, ALLWAYS
> 
> Some good 7600 kits does 8000+ on 1.5v only. (depends on timings)
> 
> VDD2 (MC voltage) @ 1.4 is enough for 8000mhz most likely. Try 8k and 1.5VDD/ 1.47VDDQ
> SA @ 1.2 is also enough for 8000mhz.


Im not talking about Dram VDD and VDDq, i have that @ 1.425v. Im talking about CPU VDDQ.... is 1.50 Safe? Cause its RED in the bios? AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP SO FAR!


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Im not talking about Dram VDD and VDDq, i have that @ 1.425v. Im talking about CPU VDDQ.... is 1.50 Safe? Cause its RED in the bios? AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP SO FAR!


Aha, it must be TX on Asus. Yes it's safe, but no need for more than 1.4v most likely.


----------



## J_Lab4645

grilli4nt said:


> Not sure, currently running my 6400c32 kits at 7600c34 with slightly improved timings at 1.46/1.43 vdd/vddq on the z790 hero. I had the 7200-rated kit also but that was back when I had the z790 strix-f which couldn’t get either of the two kits stable at 7200c34 (i.e not even xmp on the 7200 kit) hence me returning it for the hero. If I still had the 7200 kit now when I’ve switched mobo maybe it could give me 7800 or even 8000 who knows as they would probably be capable of those speeds without increasing dimm voltage, because I’ve noticed that when bringing up the dimm voltages both on strix-f and hero it just increases instability (or I’m doing something wrong). I’m on air and max out a bit over 45 deg during karhu.
> Currently at ~5000% stable in karhu with vdd/vddq 1.46/1.43/tx 1.4/imc 1.41825/sa 1.25 at 7600cl34-45-45-54 trfc 480 tRefi auto(as my sticks go above 50c in gaming due to aircooled 4090) and I’ve read somewhere tRefi is very heat sensitive so kept it auto.
> 
> Even though I’m happy with these results, moar wants moar @affxct  Will give it another go tomorrow at 7800 or 8000. Given my numbers, anyone can recommend what I should try in terms of voltage strategy? So hard to work out what is the cause of instability..



Bro!, Amazing. Just installed my 6400mhz Gskill and got 9500mhz stable at 1.2v! You da' man!
.....check your sticks? ...A-die or M-die?


----------



## NBPDC505

Just got 0031 installed on Z790 Hero. Sp 104 (P113, E88) and MC SP 79 for what it's worth. Also, V-color is now selling their 7800mhz kits on Amazon and directly from their site. Should have my set by the end of next week or early the next.


----------



## NBPDC505

What is "Maximus Tweak" in Hero BIOS under DRAM Timing Control?


----------



## opt33

7400c34 on my unifyx crashed/corrupted my game, lost 40 hours, then boot loop, just too close to 7400 boot limit on my unifyx for stability. Drove to microcenter to replace damaged headphone jack, came back with z790 hero (apex wasnt in stock)

Just frequency testing with my teamgroup 7200 kit before tightening settings, since 7400 limit on my unifyx.

7600 c36 all auto voltages, 15 mins karhu, 12 mins tm5 no errors. (used 7200 xmp then changed freq/timings)
7800 c38 all auto voltages, 12 mins tm5 no errors. 7800 run below, 1st pic 
8000 c38 all auto except random guess vdd/vddq 1.43, just ran tm5 few minutes to see if possible, 2nc pic, imc required voltages lower on this board.

likely be limited by dram voltages on air once tighten timings before running into mobo frequency limit.
13900kf, latest beta bios 0031, sp 98, pcore 106, ecore 83, mc sp 66.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> Much easier to just share mem tweak it when you post ?  There is like 10 persons in the whole world that currently owns a Z790 Apex, so who is going to use that CMO file ?


lol. then its time to increase dat number 🤣
dats more work for me to go online take screenshot post go back diagnostic mode load the services i want and then proceed testing ram
🤣
its not loose. and not a timing issue. can go tighter actuallt like trfc bank to bank 3xx


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

M-Die @7200MHz:


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Aha, it must be TX on Asus. Yes it's safe, but no need for more than 1.4v most likely.


Can you please help me tweak this a little better. So far i can pass Y-Cruncher but im getting 49.9 @ 7600 where as before with my M-Die @ 7000 I was at 48.1! What can I change here in these settings to help me get my y-cruncher back to atleast 48.1 or faster??!!


----------



## Dodgexander

Any tips trying to run the Team Delta 7200mhz Hynix A die at xmp with the 12700k and Asrock z790i TB4?

I can boot 6800 but at 7000 it refuses to boot. I've tried raising VDDQ TX and the IMC voltage and even the system agent voltage.

The dimms are capable of 7200mhz at 1.4v VDDQ and VDD so I shouldn't need more voltage to the dimms should I?


----------



## satinghostrider

Dodgexander said:


> Any tips trying to run the Team Delta 7200mhz Hynix A die at xmp with the 12700k and Asrock z790i TB4?
> 
> I can boot 6800 but at 7000 it refuses to boot. I've tried raising VDDQ TX and the IMC voltage and even the system agent voltage.
> 
> The dimms are capable of 7200mhz at 1.4v VDDQ and VDD so I shouldn't need more voltage to the dimms should I?


DIMMS may be capable but your CPU IMC is the bigger factor.


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> Can you please help me tweak this a little better. So far i can pass Y-Cruncher but im getting 49.9 @ 7600 where as before with my M-Die @ 7000 I was at 48.1! What can I change here in these settings to help me get my y-cruncher back to atleast 48.1 or faster??!!


Update.... If I set these
tRRD_L - 7
tRRD_S - 4
I get instant crash in y-cruncher

If I set 
tRRD_L - 8
tRRD_S - 5

Y-Cruncher passes and im finally in the 46.8 score..... Is this normal? This memory is super picky with voltage. If I set Ram VDDQ to 1.450, instant crashes... it loves low voltage. Trying to learn the differences from my M-Die to this A-Die.. completely different animal


----------



## Dodgexander

satinghostrider said:


> DIMMS may be capable but your CPU IMC is the bigger factor.


Indeed, but I have no idea what kind of voltage combinations I should be trying before giving up to avoid any long term damage.


----------



## owikh84

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83) - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2201
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heasinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7800 36-46-46-34-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.50V (1.55V BIOS set) | TX VDDQ 1.45V | SA 1.25V | MC 1.35V*


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

anybody has some timing/voltages for 7800cl34 or 8000cl36 for me?

Z790 Hero & G Skill 7600CL32, 13900K currently at 7800cl36 @ 1.43V


----------



## Scandaal

Can you tell me how to set the timings tRFC2 and tRFCpb, and whether they correlate somehow?


----------



## robalm

Nizzen said:


> 1.5 is no problem at all. I'm running 1.7v as we speak LOL
> Allways cool the dimms, ALLWAYS
> 
> Some good 7600 kits does 8000+ on 1.5v only. (depends on timings)
> 
> VDD2 (MC voltage) @ 1.4 is enough for 8000mhz most likely. Try 8k and 1.5VDD/ 1.47VDDQ
> SA @ 1.2 is also enough for 8000mhz.


Do you know if Samsung needs higher MC voltage than Hynix?
I need 1.25v at 6000mhz on my samsung sticks and i have seen guys with hynix sticks running mutch lower at that speed.


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Can you please help me tweak this a little better. So far i can pass Y-Cruncher but im getting 49.9 @ 7600 where as before with my M-Die @ 7000 I was at 48.1! What can I change here in these settings to help me get my y-cruncher back to atleast 48.1 or faster??!!


pictures not working


----------



## Nizzen

robalm said:


> Do you know if Samsung needs higher MC voltage than Hynix?
> I need 1.25v at 6000mhz on my samsung sticks and i have seen guys with hynix sticks running mutch lower at that speed.


Haven't testet this. Just use enough, and it's ok. If you use 1.15 or 1.3 to be stable, it doesn't matter. Hynix IS not so har for the IMC, so at may be that samsung needs more than hynix m-die and atleast a-die. A-die is very kind for the IMC.


----------



## Nizzen

Scandaal said:


> Can you tell me how to set the timings tRFC2 and tRFCpb, and whether they correlate somehow?


I use Auto, and it's fast enough for 8000mhz+

Some set the same number with good results.
Try and fail is the best method. This is why some of us has used hundreds of hours tweaking, failing, restarting x 10000000000000000 times  I'm still not done tweaking 
Thank god, because this is my hobby


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Trfc 300 vs 470 on A-die. Pretty much same second and 3. Timings.


is 470ishabout where A_die maxes out on tRFC?


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> is 470ishabout where A_die maxes out on tRFC?


Yes, atleast on 8000-8200mhz


----------



## opt33

7600c36 4 hours karhu stable, 1.41 vdd/vddq, rest voltages auto for now, still walking down settings. 7800c36 1.44 vdd/vddq erred at 51 mins, first error so far.


----------



## Ch4rLy972

Hi, everyone !
Does anyone have a link for the latest Z790 STRIX-E bios update ?
Thanks.


----------



## Nizzen

Ch4rLy972 said:


> Hi, everyone !
> Does anyone have a link for the latest Z790 STRIX-E bios update ?
> Thanks.


Post #1









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z790 Owners Thread


https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?131027-RaptorLake-Resources SP MC: MC SP -------------------------------------- Tests the MC solely, without touching the DRAM (you can even remove the dram while its testing) , same mc on different boards/dimms should give similar score Tests the...




www.overclock.net


----------



## newls1

@Nizzen and @opt33 you all have helped me so much and im grateful for all the assistance over the past weeks/months, and now very grateful with this A-Die! So Far these are my Y-Cruncher stable settings but very concerned about 2 main voltage if they are to high to be considered "Safe?" 
CPU VDDQ @ 1.488 (I need this that high or i cant obtain stability)
CPU TX @ 1.490 (Not sure if these are 2 of the same settings but @ 1.490 is this to high?

If I adjust CPU VDDQ lower, settings like tRRD_S and L will NOT STABILIZE @ 7/4 or even 8/5. Please if you see anything I can fiddle with to gain lower latency please point it out for me! Be much appreciated. Here is a pic of all my settings. THANK YOU SO MUCH!


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> @Nizzen and @opt33 you all have helped me so much and im grateful for all the assistance over the past weeks/months, and now very grateful with this A-Die! So Far these are my Y-Cruncher stable settings but very concerned about 2 main voltage if they are to high to be considered "Safe?"
> CPU VDDQ @ 1.488 (I need this that high or i cant obtain stability)
> CPU TX @ 1.490 (Not sure if these are 2 of the same settings but @ 1.490 is this to high?
> 
> If I adjust CPU VDDQ lower, settings like tRRD_S and L will NOT STABILIZE @ 7/4 or even 8/5. Please if you see anything I can fiddle with to gain lower latency please point it out for me! Be much appreciated. Here is a pic of all my settings. THANK YOU SO MUCH!


Looks nice


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Looks nice


so CPU VDDQ and CPU TX voltages are ok to use?


----------



## Ch4rLy972

Nizzen said:


> Post #1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z790 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?131027-RaptorLake-Resources SP MC: MC SP -------------------------------------- Tests the MC solely, without touching the DRAM (you can even remove the dram while its testing) , same mc on different boards/dimms should give similar score Tests the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thank you so much !


----------



## opt33

8000 c36 requires dram vdd/vddq 1.5+ with ducted a/c air (15C) to prevent tm5 temp errors at higher dram voltages. Would need water or aftermarket heatsinks for 8000 with this kit.

7800 c36-46-46, same temp issue with raising dram voltage, 1.44vdd/vddq erred late, increasing dram voltage erred quicker.

7800 c36-48-48 allows lower dram vdd/vddq 1.42-1.43(likely lower will work), tm5 stable 30 mins, then ran karhu 1hour/5000% pic below.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> so CPU VDDQ and CPU TX voltages are ok to use?


looks good like Nizzen said, and no one can tell you degradation curves for voltages except manufacturers. Cpu vddq (tx) was auto 1.48 on my unifyx for 7400 and did lot of testing and gaming at same. My voltage limits are what I can keep cool and stable, in unlikely event something goes bad it will get replaced but likely obsolete long before it would go bad.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> looks good like Nizzen said, and no one can tell you degradation curves for voltages except manufacturers. Cpu vddq (tx) was auto 1.48 on my unifyx for 7400 and did lot of testing and gaming at same. My voltage limits are what I can keep cool and stable, in unlikely event something goes bad it will get replaced but likely obsolete long before it would go bad.


thank you sir. Going to try to see if this board will boot 7800 next


----------



## tibcsi0407

newls1 said:


> thank you sir. Going to try to see if this board will boot 7800 next


According to Buildzoid he wouldn't go above 1.45V with TX voltage.


----------



## newls1

tibcsi0407 said:


> According to Buildzoid he wouldn't go above 1.45V with TX voltage.


which voltage is the "TX" voltage?? I dont have a TX voltage in my MSI bios, so im not sure how it got 1.49v. Is there another name for it? IF it is the same as CPU VDDQ vltage then im stuck with having to be at 1.49 cause i cant boot without 1.475 so I set 1.490 just for added security

*EDIT Looks like MSI Copies CPU VDDQ voltage with CPU TX voltage so I think im stuck. Was googling this and read this on techpowerup MSI motherboard review. So anyone have other input here? ANyone else running reater then 1.49 CPU TX voltage?


----------



## tibcsi0407

newls1 said:


> which voltage is the "TX" voltage?? I dont have a TX voltage in my MSI bios, so im not sure how it got 1.49v. Is there another name for it? IF it is the same as CPU VDDQ vltage then im stuck with having to be at 1.49 cause i cant boot without 1.475 so I set 1.490 just for added security
> 
> *EDIT Looks like MSI Copies CPU VDDQ voltage with CPU TX voltage so I think im stuck. Was googling this and read this on techpowerup MSI motherboard review. So anyone have other input here? ANyone else running reater then 1.49 CPU TX voltage?


It's the CPU VDDQ.


----------



## newls1

tibcsi0407 said:


> It's the CPU VDDQ.


this board has to have at minimum 1.475 here to train/post anything less no training


----------



## tibcsi0407

newls1 said:


> this board has to have at minimum 1.475 here to train/post anything less no training


That's not a recommended voltage at all. I know some guys use such a high voltage on MSI boards, but it can degrade the IMC in long term, but who knows, maybe Buildzoid is wrong about this.


----------



## z390e

tibcsi0407 said:


> That's not a recommended voltage at all. I know some guys use such a high voltage on MSI boards, but it can degrade the IMC in long term, but who knows, maybe Buildzoid is wrong about this.


most of what we are doing is "not recommended" tbh


----------



## newls1

tibcsi0407 said:


> That's not a recommended voltage at all. I know some guys use such a high voltage on MSI boards, but it can degrade the IMC in long term, but who knows, maybe Buildzoid is wrong about this.


where are you getting your information from?


----------



## newls1

I have tried every single combo with SA/ CPU VDDQ / CPU VDD2, ETC... I have to have these exact voltages to be stable... Are these NOT safe? I mean, even Vdimm VDDQ is red @ 1.414.. gimme a break!! *This is for 7670MT/s mem speeds on this Unify X*


----------



## aznsniper911

Anyone else have any other tips? I think I’m hitting an IMC wall, can’t run any of my A die kits past 7800 on z790 Extreme or z790 Godlike.


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

aznsniper911 said:


> Anyone else have any other tips? I think I’m hitting an IMC wall, can’t run any of my A die kits past 7800 on z790 Extreme or z790 Godlike.


Whicht kits?


----------



## Xavier233

Hey guys, which DDR5 + Z790 mobo currently seems to have good out-of-the-box compatibility with DDR5 7000 or more at STOCK settings (no DDR5 OC)?


----------



## aznsniper911

jonny.brechbuehl said:


> Whicht kits?


Two kits of Team Group 7000 and four kits of G.Skill 6400 C32


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> 8000 c36 requires dram vdd/vddq 1.5+ with ducted a/c air (15C) to prevent tm5 temp errors at higher dram voltages. Would need water or aftermarket heatsinks for 8000 with this kit.
> 
> 7800 c36-46-46, same temp issue with raising dram voltage, 1.44vdd/vddq erred late, increasing dram voltage erred quicker.
> 
> 7800 c36-48-48 allows lower dram vdd/vddq 1.42-1.43(likely lower will work), tm5 stable 30 mins, then ran karhu 1hour/5000% pic below.
> View attachment 2583794


Very interesting, I also have z790 hero but struggling to get 7800 stable, spent a few days not succeeding. Actually now I even gave up on 7600 as it fails Karhu after like 30-40 mins. Which kits do you have? I have g skill a-die 6400-xmp rated.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

grilli4nt said:


> Very interesting, I also have z790 hero but struggling to get 7800 stable, spent a few days not succeeding. Actually now I even gave up on 7600 as it fails Karhu after like 30-40 mins. Which kits do you have? I have g skill a-die 6400-xmp rated.


The G.Skill 6400 CL32 is not a hynix A-Die kit, Its a hynix M-Die Kit. Lowest XMP rating across all A-Die ram kits is 7000mhz

Sorry my dude, but you dont have A-Die. All G.Skill 6400mhz kits are M-Die.


----------



## opt33

grilli4nt said:


> Very interesting, I also have z790 hero but struggling to get 7800 stable, spent a few days not succeeding. Actually now I even gave up on 7600 as it fails Karhu after like 30-40 mins. Which kits do you have? I have g skill a-die 6400-xmp rated.


teamgroup 7200c34, I just finished installing clean OS with 7600 karhu stable posted earlier. If your kit requires much higher dram voltages than 1.43 then likely need water or aftermarket heat sink or will err from temps. If on air with ram fan like me, then need a decent bin that can do 7200c34 or 7600 c36 at 1.4v or less and hope for a decent guardband to allow tightening without going much higher. If plan on copying peoples tight settings that are running high dram voltages with a-die, plan on copying their cooling method as well.


----------



## Nizzen

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> The G.Skill 6400 CL32 is not a hynix A-Die kit, Its a hynix M-Die Kit. Lowest XMP rating across all A-Die ram kits is 7000mhz
> 
> Sorry my dude, you dont have A-Die


Sorry my dude, you are actual wrong 😘


----------



## grilli4nt

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> The G.Skill 6400 CL32 is not a hynix A-Die kit, Its a hynix M-Die Kit. Lowest XMP rating across all A-Die ram kits is 7000mhz
> 
> Sorry my dude, you dont have A-Die


Nah I’m pretty sure it’s A-die, says 820A on dimms. They recently started with A-dies also in 6400 and 6600 kits based on what I’ve read here.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

grilli4nt said:


> Nah I’m pretty sure it’s A-die, says 820A on dimms. They recently started with A-dies also in 6400 and 6600 kits based on what I’ve read here.


Interesting thats news to me

With that being the case, a 6400 A-Die kit is going to be the lowest of low-tier bins for Hynix A-Die. I wouldn't reasonably expect for you be able to push it past 7400mhz with it being that low of a bin


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Nizzen said:


> Sorry my dude, you are actual wrong 😘


Relax my dude. I have so many other things to keep up with outside of the XMP ratings that G.Skill is applying to their ram kits.


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> teamgroup 7200c34, I just finished installing clean OS with 7600 karhu stable posted earlier. If your kit requires much higher dram voltages than 1.43 then likely need water or aftermarket heat sink or will err from temps. If on air with ram fan like me, then need a decent bin that can do 7200c34 or 7600 c36 at 1.4v or less and hope for a decent guardband to allow tightening without going much higher. If plan on copying peoples tight settings that are running high dram voltages with a-die, plan on copying their cooling method as well.


I see. I understand pushing the 6400 more than 7200 or 7400 might be a stretch, but still, I can boot them on around 1.45v on 7600 and 7800 and can run 7600 karhu for like 10 mins, hence I find it hard to pin point root cause for instability. I will probably grab a faster kit and see how that behave in my platform.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

grilli4nt said:


> I see. I understand pushing the 6400 more than 7200 or 7400 might be a stretch, but still, I can boot them on around 1.45v on 7600 and 7800 and can run 7600 karhu for like 10 mins, hence I find it hard to pin point root cause for instability. I will probably grab a faster kit and see how that behave in my platform.


Something to consider when you do go for a higher rated kit..... G.Skill's heatsinks are god awful. I believe they use glue instead of thermal pads. Id recommend avoiding them if at all possible.

I used to have a G.Skill kit, and it's idle temperature was about 12°-15° hotter than my Corsair kit at the same voltages and frequency. The difference only becomes more pronounced under load. Corsair and TeamForce will be your best bet imo


----------



## Nizzen

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Interesting thats news to me
> 
> With that being the case, a 6400 A-Die kit is going to be the lowest of low-tier bins for Hynix A-Die. I wouldn't reasonably expect for you be able to push it past 7400mhz with it being that low of a bin


Talk about low tier bin... Writing now from the computer running OEM green hynix 5600mhz c46 @ 8400c34


----------



## opt33

Nizzen said:


> Talk about low tier bin... Writing now from the computer running OEM green hynix 5600mhz c46 @ 8400c34


yes, on water with 1.7v per your earlier post, people trying that on air are only going to be running clear cmos.


----------



## TraumatikOC

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Something to consider when you do go for a higher rated kit..... G.Skill's heatsinks are god awful. I believe they use glue instead of thermal pads. Id recommend avoiding them if at all possible.
> 
> I used to have a G.Skill kit, and it's idle temperature was about 12°-15° hotter than my Corsair kit at the same voltages and frequency. The difference only becomes more pronounced under load. Corsair and TeamForce will be your best bet imo


This is gskill 7200 at 7600 and tighter timings while watching hulu and playing a game


----------



## Agent-A01

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> I used to have a G.Skill kit, and it's idle temperature was about 12°-15° hotter than my Corsair kit at the same voltages and frequency. The difference only becomes more pronounced under load. Corsair and TeamForce will be your best bet imo


They use thermal tape, like all others. You cant attach a heatsink to memory without adhesion and pads have none.

Besides that, pmic temp means nothing. 
Did you apply thermocouples across a few memory ICs and average the deltas? If not, your comparison is meaningless.


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> yes, on water with 1.7v per your earlier post, people trying that on air are only going to be running clear cmos.


The difference for me in temps when having 1.4v vs 1.5v under load (karhu) is not that great. I would say maybe 44c on 1.4 and 47c on 1.5. Is this considered a big difference and the reason why 1.5v is much more unstable? Or are the readings in hwinfo (SPD Hub Temp) not accurate /not the correct temps?


----------



## Nizzen

opt33 said:


> yes, on water with 1.7v per your earlier post, people trying that on air are only going to be running clear cmos.


1.62v vdd


----------



## Xavier233

Xavier233 said:


> Hey guys, which DDR5 + Z790 mobo currently seems to have good out-of-the-box compatibility with DDR5 7000 or more at STOCK settings (no DDR5 OC)?


bumpy


----------



## opt33

grilli4nt said:


> The difference for me in temps when having 1.4v vs 1.5v under load (karhu) is not that great. I would say maybe 44c on 1.4 and 47c on 1.5. Is this considered a big difference and the reason why 1.5v is much more unstable? Or are the readings in hwinfo (SPD Hub Temp) not accurate /not the correct temps?


others have stated spd temps per hwinfo are pmic, not mem ic's. higher dram voltage could make large difference on ic temps and smaller difference on pmic. Since a-die quickly becomes unstable at 1.5+ volts, but then stable if cooling with water or blasting 15C a/c air duct suggests larger temp difference on ic.

Only way to be sure is measure temp on IC's. I have a fluke with calibrated probe can attach to ic with thermal adhesive (still just external temp not hottest spot), was going to do that before switching mobo (in case something went wrong) but forgot. was going to sacrifice my vcolors 7200 for that experiment, just for my own curiosity, plus wont ever use them again.


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> others have stated spd temps per hwinfo are pmic, not mem ic's. higher dram voltage could make large difference on ic temps and smaller difference on pmic. Since a-die quickly becomes unstable at 1.5+ volts, but then stable if cooling with water or blasting 15C a/c air duct suggests larger temp difference on ic.
> 
> Only way to be sure is measure temp on IC's. I have a fluke with calibrated probe can attach to ic with thermal adhesive (still just external temp not hottest spot), was going to do that before switching mobo (in case something went wrong) but forgot. was going to sacrifice my vcolors 7200 for that experiment, just for my own curiosity, plus wont ever use them again.


This clarifies a lot, thank you very much


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Agent-A01 said:


> They use thermal tape, like all others. You cant attach a heatsink to memory without adhesion and pads have none.
> 
> Besides that, pmic temp means nothing.
> Did you apply thermocouples across a few memory ICs and average the deltas? If not, your comparison is meaningless.


Im going by the SPD Hub temperature. I dont understand how the SPD Hub temp is completely meaningless. Its not just displaying a random number? Maybe i should point my infrared camera at it and grab a reading?

Why you guys gotta get all over my case 

Im just speaking from my personal experience, which is going to be a bit skewed. Im on a November 2021 production run Z690 Apex, with a DIMM_A1 slot of questionable quality. Running high RAM OC's on it is difficult and a bit of a balancing act, but still possible. I'm able to make do perfectly fine, but in general need a lot more voltage to do so than i would on a board that was actually manufactured correctly.

Im doing the best that i can lads. Cut me some slack eh?


----------



## Carillo

opt33 said:


> yes, on water with 1.7v per your earlier post, people trying that on air are only going to be running clear cmos.


8400 c34 is possible on air with all A-die kit i have tested so far. You just need the right motherboard and bios


----------



## aznsniper911

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Interesting thats news to me
> 
> With that being the case, a 6400 A-Die kit is going to be the lowest of low-tier bins for Hynix A-Die. I wouldn't reasonably expect for you be able to push it past 7400mhz with it being that low of a bin


All 8 sticks of my G.Skill 6400 A die can do 7800 on air. The memory IC changed happen within the last month.


----------



## grilli4nt

aznsniper911 said:


> All 8 sticks of my G.Skill 6400 A die can do 7800 on air. The memory IC changed happen within the last month.


I think my 6400 kits can do it too, but maybe not on this mobo. Still playing with settings tho. Which mobo have you used? Care to share any voltages / settings?


----------



## Carillo

Agent-A01 said:


> They use thermal tape, like all others. You cant attach a heatsink to memory without adhesion and pads have none.
> 
> Besides that, pmic temp means nothing.
> Did you apply thermocouples across a few memory ICs and average the deltas? If not, your comparison is meaningless.


This is classical rookie comment. First he throws out NO 6400 kits is A-die, and minutes later this comment: "you better go corsair or team because of pmic idle temps on g.skill is higher.... jesus


----------



## aznsniper911

grilli4nt said:


> I think my 6400 kits can do it too, but maybe not on this mobo. Still playing with settings tho. Which mobo have you used? Care to share any voltages / settings?


I'm suspecting the issue really lies on the IMC because even my other higher binned Team Group kits are hitting a 7800 wall for me. I been using a 13900KF (72 MC Score) on a Z790 Extreme and Z790 Godlike. Sorry I don't have any tuned settings to share yet, I been trying to figure out the mhz wall/limitation of my mobo and CPU.


----------



## Nelfhunt

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Sorry my dude, but you dont have A-Die. All G.Skill 6400mhz kits are M-Die.


Sorry dude, but I have G.Skill 6800MHz and it is A-die.


----------



## grilli4nt

aznsniper911 said:


> I'm suspecting the issue really lies on the IMC because even my other higher binned Team Group kits are hitting a 7800 wall for me. I been using a 13900KF (72 MC Score) on a Z790 Extreme and Z790 Godlike. Sorry I don't have any tuned settings to share yet, I been trying to figure out the mhz wall/limitation of my mobo and CPU.


Maybe it’s the IMC after all for me too then.. 69 MC score over here in my 13900k. I’m only on the hero tho and 6400 binned kits so before I try an apex and higher binned kits guess I can’t blame the IMC just yet


----------



## Nelfhunt

newls1 said:


> which voltage is the "TX" voltage?? I dont have a TX voltage in my MSI bios, so im not sure how it got 1.49v. Is there another name for it? IF it is the same as CPU VDDQ vltage then im stuck with having to be at 1.49 cause i cant boot without 1.475 so I set 1.490 just for added security
> 
> *EDIT Looks like MSI Copies CPU VDDQ voltage with CPU TX voltage so I think im stuck. Was googling this and read this on techpowerup MSI motherboard review. So anyone have other input here? ANyone else running reater then 1.49 CPU TX voltage?


msi bios "dram voltage" is vdd in hwinfo.
msi bios "dram vddq" is vddq in hwinfo.
msi "cpu vdd2' is same as asus mem controller voltage
msi "cpu vddq" like asus vddq tx


----------



## grilli4nt

Thinking of picking up faster kits. Where I live teamgroups faster kits not being sold. It’s either g.skill 7200/7600 or Corsair vengeance 7200c34. Haven’t seen / read anything here about the Corsair ones, do we know if they’re any good?


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

aznsniper911 said:


> All 8 sticks of my G.Skill 6400 A die can do 7800 on air. The memory IC changed happen within the last month.


Thats pretty hype. Glad to hear that change occurred. I haven't had much time to keep up with it this past month, so that would make sense


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Carillo said:


> This is classical rookie comment. First he throws out NO 6400 kits is A-die, and minutes later this comment: "you better go corsair or team because of pmic idle temps on g.skill is higher.... jesus





Relax bruv. I have time to browse around this site maybe once or twice a month. Im speaking from my limited experience. Im just trying to understand is all, the best way to do that is talking about the subject with others dont you think? No need for shaming 



fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Im going by the SPD Hub temperature. I dont understand how the SPD Hub temp is completely meaningless. Its not just displaying a random number? Maybe i should point my infrared camera at it and grab a reading?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why you guys gotta get all over my case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im just speaking from my personal experience, which is going to be a bit skewed. Im on a November 2021 production run Z690 Apex, with a DIMM_A1 slot of questionable quality. Running high RAM OC's on it is difficult and a bit of a balancing act, but still possible. I'm able to make do perfectly fine, but in general need a lot more voltage to do so than i would on a board that was actually manufactured correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im doing the best that i can lads. Cut me some slack eh?


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> Maybe it’s the IMC after all for me too then.. 69 MC score over here in my 13900k. I’m only on the hero tho and 6400 binned kits so before I try an apex and higher binned kits guess I can’t blame the IMC just yet


Doubt its your imc. I just ordered a 6400 c32 g.skill kit, should be arriving in 3-4 days. They are currently on " black week" sale for only 250 dollar, so i just had to try them out. So much discussion around this kit


----------



## Carillo

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Relax bruv. I have time to browse around this site maybe once or twice a month. Im speaking from my limited experience. Im just trying to understand is all, the best way to do that is talking about the subject with others dont you think? No need for shaming


Asking questions and misleading with statements is two different things


----------



## Xavier233

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Relax bruv. I have time to browse around this site maybe once or twice a month. Im speaking from my limited experience. Im just trying to understand is all, the best way to do that is talking about the subject with others dont you think? No need for shaming


Could you PLEASE tell me how the heck you got a 7400 CL32 kit working on a 2021 Z690 Apex?? I cannot run it stable at 6000 let alone 7400...


----------



## grilli4nt

Carillo said:


> Doubt its your imc. I just ordered a 6400 c32 g.skill kit, should be arriving in 3-4 days. They are currently on " black week" sale for only 250 dollar, so i just had to try them out. So much discussion around this kit


To be fair I doubt it’s the IMC too, I’m leaning towards combo of hero not being (maybe) the go to mobo for closer to 8k speeds and the lower binned kits. Looking forward for your results on the 6400! Even tho I’m sure you’ll get those bad boys to 8400 anyway haha. Hope you get the A-dies tho, still a lottery if it’s A or M still I guess


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Carillo said:


> Asking questions and misleading with statements is two different things


I haven't made one misleading statement. There was no subjective bias in my statement, only objective observation. I observed idle SPD Hub temps around 12°-15° lower on my Corsair DDR5 over my G.Skill DDR5. I had always been under the impression that hwinfo readings were reliable. So i made an objective recommendation based on my end user experience.

I've already acknowledged that my (now prior) understanding of A-Die XMP frequencies currently being circulated for retail is dated, as well as Incorrect.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Xavier233 said:


> Could you PLEASE tell me how the heck you got a 7400 CL32 kit working on a 2021 Z690 Apex?? I cannot run it stable at 6000 let alone 7400...


mostly luck. whats your CPU?

i can share some BIOS settings/sensor readout in a little bit


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> To be fair I doubt it’s the IMC too, I’m leaning towards combo of hero not being (maybe) the go to mobo for closer to 8k speeds and the lower binned kits. Looking forward for your results on the 6400! Even tho I’m sure you’ll get those bad boys to 8400 anyway haha. Hope you get the A-dies tho, still a lottery if it’s A or M still I guess


Thanks  Yes, idk if im getting A or M , but i also think it would be fun to test m-die on z790 apex. Maybe do some maxed out A vs M gaming and synthetic comparison


----------



## Agent-A01

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Im going by the SPD Hub temperature. I dont understand how the SPD Hub temp is completely meaningless. Its not just displaying a random number? Maybe i should point my infrared camera at it and grab a reading?


SPD temp is a sensor right next to the VRM, it's nowhere close to what the memory ICs are.

It doesn't mean anything because those temps are from heat generated by the VRM which is designed to run up to 105c.
Memory IC temps are the only important temp but they do not have those measurements on the current DDR5 kits..

Some kits don't use thermal pads on PMICs because they can tolerate a lot of heat.
In fact, adding extra heat to the heatsink could cause the memory ICs to soak in more heat so it's a double-edged sword.

TLDR, spd temp isn't something to compare across kits.


----------



## Xavier233

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> mostly luck. whats your CPU?
> 
> i can share some BIOS settings/sensor readout in a little bit


12900K SP90, Gskill 6000 CL36. I contacted Asus to RMA it for the 2022 version, they dont have any in stock at the moment.

EDIT: yess please share your bios settings


----------



## aznsniper911

grilli4nt said:


> Maybe it’s the IMC after all for me too then.. 69 MC score over here in my 13900k. I’m only on the hero tho and 6400 binned kits so before I try an apex and higher binned kits guess I can’t blame the IMC just yet


If you go with the apex, you’ll definitely have a better time!



Carillo said:


> Doubt its your imc. I just ordered a 6400 c32 g.skill kit, should be arriving in 3-4 days. They are currently on " black week" sale for only 250 dollar, so i just had to try them out. So much discussion around this kit


If it’s a recent batch from Newegg and it’s the black kit should be A die. All mine were 6400 C32 black Gskill kits!

Might be the 4 dimm mobo not liking the speed, both my z790 extreme and z790 godlike are hitting a 7800 wall. Have to find a better mc to verify tho, ah this is the life we chose!


----------



## Blaauurgh

TraumatikOC said:


> This is gskill 7200 at 7600 and tighter timings while watching hulu and playing a game
> View attachment 2583880



Can you share your timings?


----------



## bastian

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> I haven't made one misleading statement. There was no subjective bias in my statement, only objective observation. I observed idle SPD Hub temps around 12°-15° lower on my Corsair DDR5 over my G.Skill DDR5.


G.Skill DDR5 kits do indeed have worse temps than Corsairs. This is well known.

For my Corsair kit at 7200 and 1.45v it never goes over 48c


----------



## Carillo

aznsniper911 said:


> If you go with the apex, you’ll definitely have a better time!
> 
> 
> If it’s a recent batch from Newegg and it’s the black kit should be A die. All mine were 6400 C32 black Gskill kits!
> 
> Might be the 4 dimm mobo not liking the speed, both my z790 extreme and z790 godlike are hitting a 7800 wall. Have to find a better mc to verify tho, ah this is the life we chose!


it’s the black ones with RGB , purchased in Norway. They are new stock , so I’m pretty sure it’s A-die


----------



## Xavier233

What would cause this: I get y-cruncher + TM5 stable. All good. Reboot then re-run the same tests = fails. Z690 Apex DIMM slot issue?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone has a link for latest asrock timming config? Thanks.


----------



## z390e

Xavier233 said:


> What would cause this: I get y-cruncher + TM5 stable. All good. Reboot then re-run the same tests = fails. Z690 Apex DIMM slot issue?


could be temps


----------



## tibcsi0407

Guys, who can share MC SP please share it. Let's see who has the highest score.


----------



## ESRCJ

I can't seem to get 7800 stable regardless of timings or voltages. Any suggestions? The voltage combo that gave me the most coverage in Ramtest before hitting an error (2205% coverage) was as follows:
VDD = 1.42V
WDDQ = 1.42V
VCCSA = 1.19V
IMC VDD = 1.29V
Increasing or decreasing SA or IMC result in errors much earlier. Any other voltages I should consider? My timings are not super fine-tuned, but they aren't very tight so I'm thinking it may be a matter of getting the right voltages. I'll happily take suggestions on the timings though. CPU is running stock during this testing. Relevant hardware is a 13900K with an MC SP of 75, G.skill 7600 kit (A-die), and Maximus Z790 Extreme.


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

ESRCJ said:


> I can't seem to get 7800 stable regardless of timings or voltages. Any suggestions? The voltage combo that gave me the most coverage in Ramtest before hitting an error (2205% coverage) was as follows:
> VDD = 1.42V
> WDDQ = 1.42V
> VCCSA = 1.19V
> IMC VDD = 1.29V
> Increasing or decreasing SA or IMC result in errors much earlier. Any other voltages I should consider? My timings are not super fine-tuned, but they aren't very tight so I'm thinking it may be a matter of getting the right voltages. I'll happily take suggestions on the timings though. CPU is running stock during this testing. Relevant hardware is a 13900K with an MC SP of 75, G.skill 7600 kit (A-die), and Maximus Z790 Extreme.
> 
> View attachment 2583973


These are the stock timings, right? Try this

7800CL36 with SA Voltage to 1.15, MC to 1.35. VDD & VDDQ, 1.435 and IVR TX 1.4


----------



## Nizzen

ESRCJ said:


> I can't seem to get 7800 stable regardless of timings or voltages. Any suggestions? The voltage combo that gave me the most coverage in Ramtest before hitting an error (2205% coverage) was as follows:
> VDD = 1.42V
> WDDQ = 1.42V
> VCCSA = 1.19V
> IMC VDD = 1.29V
> Increasing or decreasing SA or IMC result in errors much earlier. Any other voltages I should consider? My timings are not super fine-tuned, but they aren't very tight so I'm thinking it may be a matter of getting the right voltages. I'll happily take suggestions on the timings though. CPU is running stock during this testing. Relevant hardware is a 13900K with an MC SP of 75, G.skill 7600 kit (A-die), and Maximus Z790 Extreme.
> 
> View attachment 2583973


Show us the temps and all the voltages in hwinfo. Temperature: Hold it under 50c, and everything is more easy


----------



## Brandur

I have a question regarding the bins of DDR5 @XMP (Corsair and Team Group). The Corsair DDR5 7600 Kit requires 1.45V, whereas the Team Group DDR5 7600 Kit does only require 1.4V. Does this mean it is better binned, than the Corsair?


----------



## Nizzen

Brandur said:


> I have a question regarding the bins of DDR5 @XMP (Corsair and Team Group). The Corsair DDR5 7600 Kit requires 1.45V, whereas the Team Group DDR5 7600 Kit does only require 1.4V. Does this mean it is better binned, than the Corsair?


Doesn't matter anything. Random luck of the bins. Just like ddr4. 3200c14 could overclock better than 3800c14.


----------



## Xavier233

z390e said:


> could be temps


Temps are good


----------



## newls1

major update guys.... installed new A8 bios from msi's site and apparently its tuned for a-die.... "Auto" sets CPU VDDQ to 1.40 so upon initial bios setup configuring everything back to how i had it... I booted and thought for sure it wouldnt be stable... To my surprise 7676MHz CPU VDDQ 1.40v (Nearly .100mv less voltage!!) and 4 passes of y-cruncher no issue. I couldnt even post with this CPU VDDQ this low on prior bios. Im fairly impressed. Thank you MSI. Big difference bios makes. Went from 1.490 CPU VDDQ and 1.50v CPU VDDQ TX to 1.40!


----------



## opt33

ESRCJ said:


> I can't seem to get 7800 stable regardless of timings or voltages. Any suggestions? The voltage combo that gave me the most coverage in Ramtest before hitting an error (2205% coverage) was as follows:
> VDD = 1.42V
> WDDQ = 1.42V
> VCCSA = 1.19V
> IMC VDD = 1.29V
> Increasing or decreasing SA or IMC result in errors much earlier. Any other voltages I should consider? My timings are not super fine-tuned, but they aren't very tight so I'm thinking it may be a matter of getting the right voltages. I'll happily take suggestions on the timings though. CPU is running stock during this testing. Relevant hardware is a 13900K with an MC SP of 75, G.skill 7600 kit (A-die), and Maximus Z790 Extreme.


I cant run 7800 36-46 because of presumed late temp errors (45mins+ in karhu) as need vdd 1.43+ similar to yours, unless I cheat and use duct a/c air with 10 inch vortex 750cfm. spd temps are 52C on mine max, but who knows what ic temps (the ones that matter) are. I can run 7800 c36-48 as lets me reduce vdd/vddq to 1.41-1.42 just enough to avoid late temp errors, and not much performance difference between two, so could try that. Could also try stronger ram fam, im playing with that now. 

Corsair/gskill/TG need to up their ram cooling game in atleast higher frequency kits.

I stripped off heatsink on kit I wont use and going to attach fluke calibrated thermocouple with thermal adhesive to one of ic, though first have to build msi unifyx, 12900k outside case (not chancing new mobo/cpu in case I short something). will only read external temps of ic not hotspot and compare to spd temps at varying volts, so if not that high useless experiment, but if reads high, internal hotspots will only be hotter than what i can read external.


----------



## Xavier233

Xavier233 said:


> What would cause this: I get y-cruncher + TM5 stable. All good. Reboot then re-run the same tests = fails. Z690 Apex DIMM slot issue?


Anyone? Temps are good


----------



## z390e

Xavier233 said:


> Anyone? Temps are good


only other thing I can think of is what you set to get it working didn't stay over reboot


----------



## opt33

found safe way to do it on current computer. fluke surface probe measures surface temps accurately. dipped thermal probe tip in thermal interface material and hold it firmly against IC as shown in pic. this is m die kit, adie next. tried multiple ic's multiple locations on ic.

Mdie at 4800 1.4 volts
idle" spd temp 29 deg, IC 30.
5 mins tm5: hwinfo spd temp 45.8, surface temp IC 46.5.

doing 1.45 volts for 10 mins now, then will try adie

but again major limitation here is can only measure surface temps.


----------



## z390e

@opt33 I use those vortex fans for my cannabis grows, if you are using them to keep your DIMMs cool, thats incredible lol those little vortex fans are no $*%#% joke.


----------



## MLJS54

Hello DDR5 gurus

Question for you: I'm looking for a mobo right now to pair with a 13700K and the 7200 GSkill kit (both already purchased). I keep seeing conflicting anecdotes that none of the z790 Strix boards beside the Apex are stable with XMP @ 7200. Could be BS. Any thoughts? Should I go with something like the z690 Unify-X instead? My main concern is stability @ XMP before I do any OCing.


----------



## Agent-A01

MLJS54 said:


> Hello DDR5 gurus
> 
> Question for you: I'm looking for a mobo right now to pair with a 13700K and the 7200 GSkill kit (both already purchased). I keep seeing conflicting anecdotes that none of the z790 Strix boards beside the Apex are stable with XMP @ 7200. Could be BS. Any thoughts? Should I go with something like the z690 Unify-X instead? My main concern is stability @ XMP before I do any OCing.


Early BIOS may have had issues but newest BIOS fixes a lot of XMP issues for people.

I played with a Z790-A Prime for a short period and it had no issues with 7000(m-die kit), I expect a strix board to have a better memory topology.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

MLJS54 said:


> Hello DDR5 gurus
> 
> Question for you: I'm looking for a mobo right now to pair with a 13700K and the 7200 GSkill kit (both already purchased). I keep seeing conflicting anecdotes that none of the z790 Strix boards beside the Apex are stable with XMP @ 7200. Could be BS. Any thoughts? Should I go with something like the z690 Unify-X instead? My main concern is stability @ XMP before I do any OCing.


*z690 Unify-X instead?*

This a great board I've seen around here. There was a bios just released for it that helps A-die(7200MHz kits) even more. So I'd expect 7200MHz speeds for sure myself if I was buying one now.


----------



## bhav

opt33 said:


> found safe way to do it on current computer. fluke surface probe measures surface temps accurately.


Might not be as accurate but IR thermometer works. Also I was looking at prices and there are Fluke ones for around 150, but I have a black and decker thermal leak detector that also does the job.


----------



## Xavier233

z390e said:


> only other thing I can think of is what you set to get it working didn't stay over reboot


I do see the same settings after rebooting. Am royally confused


----------



## opt33

Well not what I expected, the IC surface temp measured with calibrated fluke surface probe pretty much tracks pmic spd temp in hwinfo within 1-2C at multiple voltages using tm5 up to 10 mins, but again can only measure surface IC temps and without heatsink. true for mdie and my vcolor adie. no ram fan (it was in the way). 

@bhav have IR as well, but cant get it close enough as cpu block in way, so reads larger spot than just ic, temps 5-7C below surface probe reading on fluke.

1.46vdd/vddq with vcolor 7200 frequency tm5 for 8 minutes. If I had 3 hands could video or get all in one pic, but have to watch where I put that metal probe, 4 pics below in 1 pic;

top left fluke: 61C measuring surface of IC while hwinfo read 59.7c at same time
bottom left hwinfo: max temp 60.5C spd vs max temp on fluke IC surface temp was 62.1C during 8 mins tm5
top right vcolor installed without sink installed, fing led lights were blinding me.
bottom right vcolor with heatsink removed (took 30 seconds with hairdryer and minimal force peeled cleanly off).


----------



## opt33

z390e said:


> @opt33 I use those vortex fans for my cannabis grows, if you are using them to keep your DIMMs cool, thats incredible lol those little vortex fans are no $*%#% joke.


only when testing with higher voltage using a/c duct air.


----------



## chibi

opt33 said:


> I cant run 7800 36-46 because of presumed late temp errors (45mins+ in karhu) as need vdd 1.43+ similar to yours, unless I cheat and use duct a/c air with 10 inch vortex 750cfm. spd temps are 52C on mine max, but who knows what ic temps (the ones that matter) are. I can run 7800 c36-48 as lets me reduce vdd/vddq to 1.41-1.42 just enough to avoid late temp errors, and not much performance difference between two, so could try that. Could also try stronger ram fam, im playing with that now.
> 
> Corsair/gskill/TG need to up their ram cooling game in atleast higher frequency kits.
> 
> I stripped off heatsink on kit I wont use and going to attach fluke calibrated thermocouple with thermal adhesive to one of ic, though first have to build msi unifyx, 12900k outside case (not chancing new mobo/cpu in case I short something). will only read external temps of ic not hotspot and compare to spd temps at varying volts, so if not that high useless experiment, but if reads high, internal hotspots will only be hotter than what i can read external.
> 
> View attachment 2584013


For Science! Ty for your time and results. Looks like the spd temp in hwinfo is _good enough_ for my use case based on your test results


----------



## Nizzen

opt33 said:


> I cant run 7800 36-46 because of presumed late temp errors (45mins+ in karhu) as need vdd 1.43+ similar to yours, unless I cheat and use duct a/c air with 10 inch vortex 750cfm. spd temps are 52C on mine max, but who knows what ic temps (the ones that matter) are. I can run 7800 c36-48 as lets me reduce vdd/vddq to 1.41-1.42 just enough to avoid late temp errors, and not much performance difference between two, so could try that. Could also try stronger ram fam, im playing with that now.
> 
> Corsair/gskill/TG need to up their ram cooling game in atleast higher frequency kits.
> 
> I stripped off heatsink on kit I wont use and going to attach fluke calibrated thermocouple with thermal adhesive to one of ic, though first have to build msi unifyx, 12900k outside case (not chancing new mobo/cpu in case I short something). will only read external temps of ic not hotspot and compare to spd temps at varying volts, so if not that high useless experiment, but if reads high, internal hotspots will only be hotter than what i can read external.
> 
> View attachment 2584013


Epic post mate! Tnx 🤩


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Xavier233 said:


> 12900K SP90, Gskill 6000 CL36. I contacted Asus to RMA it for the 2022 version, they dont have any in stock at the moment.
> 
> EDIT: yess please share your bios settings


Ahah i see. I also had a 12900K before i got my 13900K. On my 12900K is was impossible for me to run above 6200 C32, and then Bios 2004 came out, and i was able to run 6400 C32. But that was the hard limit

Once i got my 13900K, that same ram kit was able to be run at 6600 C30. Theres a possibility that your CPU's IMC is weak.


----------



## Xavier233

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Ahah i see. I also had a 12900K before i got my 13900K. On my 12900K is was impossible for me to run above 6200 C32, and then Bios 2004 came out, and i was able to run 6400 C32. But that was the hard limit
> 
> Once i got my 13900K, that same ram kit was able to be run at 6600 C30. Theres a possibility that your CPU's IMC is weak.


The 12900K is SP90, and am only trying 6000 which is the rated DDR5 speed for the kit. Nothing more, nothing less. Different reboots have different minds. Sometimes it runs y-cruncher + TM5 no issues, other times after reboots it throws errors. Also, any changes to the BIOS (even if not related to memory) causes errors on mem tests. Asus support is the worst part: nothing in stock for cross-RMA.


----------



## z390e

Xavier233 said:


> Different reboots have different minds. Sometimes it runs y-cruncher + TM5 no issues, other times after reboots it throws errors.


Do you have fast boot on or off?


----------



## adolf512

I gave up on 6600 dual rank

Loosening some turnaround timings allowed stability at 6400

msi pro z790-p


----------



## ssgwright

so I got a 4080 MSI gaming X up and running. The card runs great but for some reason I had to turn my ddr5 down from XMP 6600 all the way down to 5200mhz otherwise it won't boot?

Anyone know why this is? I was thinking maybe it has something to do with ReBar?


----------



## ssgwright

ssgwright said:


> so I got a 4080 MSI gaming X up and running. The card runs great but for some reason I had to turn my ddr5 down from XMP 6600 all the way down to 5200mhz otherwise it won't boot?
> 
> Anyone know why this is? I was thinking maybe it has something to do with ReBar?


exact system ran fine with a 3090 at 6600, all I did was switch gpus and now it won't boot unless I turn my ram mhz down to 5200?


----------



## Xavier233

z390e said:


> Do you have fast boot on or off?


Off, most stock BIOS settings are there, just memory settings are changed


----------



## z390e

Only thing I can think of then is one of your CPU OC or RAM settings is Auto which isn't right but somehow works on the times it is working.


----------



## Xavier233

Am out of ideas. Asus support is useless of course. And yet we keep buying their products.... including myself


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Asus Z690 2021 boards, some can't get high memory speeds. Or you get a decent speeds with full 100% stability testing, next reboot, tests fail.

My Apex wasn't as bad as others, but I sold it for a good price(lost half of my money) and bought a Dark z690. Pleasent experience ever since.


----------



## z390e

Oh yeah if its a z690 Apex all bets are off lol


----------



## affxct

I'm not sure what the actual limits of my kit or IMC are, but I've been trying to avoid 1.55-1.6V because G.SKILL kits are not very resilient and heat dissipation isn't great. This is the *6400C32 820A* cheapie kit. It seems relatively okay.

This is 7400 34-44-44-44-28-2T @ 1.45 VDD/1.35 VDDQ/1.35 TX/1.25 SA/1.4 VDD2 and it managed 800-900% HCI. Having a weird issue with loading CPU-Z though. Potentially tRFC and tRFCpb are too low. I'm using 480/450 right now.


----------



## CptSpig

Daily Gaming memory overclock. Green Sticks non-binned 5600 OC to 8000MHz VDD / VDDQ 1.605 / 1.620 and VDDQIX 1.40. Cooling Water. No Overclock on the CPU yet.


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> Having a weird issue with loading CPU-Z though.


I saw some very very odd behavior lately with AIDA64, TestMem5 and CPU-Z on my setup. To the point I am holding off on using them all at the same time.


----------



## opt33

chibi said:


> For Science! Ty for your time and results. Looks like the spd temp in hwinfo is _good enough_ for my use case based on your test results


Just found Igor labs used thermal imaging to compare ddr5 spd hub temps to hot spots on die, which is better way of measuring ic temp hot spots. They found consistent 10-15C higher IC hot spot temp vs spd temps at full load. May not be as high difference with heatsink (intel white papers show reduced hotspot temps with intels cpu ihs), but clearly temps higher.

spd temps still useful, just have to add 10-15C (higher difference at higher voltage) minus some reduction of hotspot temp from heatsink to spd temp, probably hotspot at least 10c higher even with heatsink.









How hot does DDR5 memory really get? Readout value from SPD hub vs. real measurement at the module | Investigative | Page 2 | igor'sLAB


Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!




www.igorslab.de


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> I saw some very very odd behavior lately with AIDA64, TestMem5 and CPU-Z on my setup. To the point I am holding off on using them all at the same time.


I usually do AIDA with as little open as possible (mainly for my own bookkeeping in OneDrive). But yeah for sure, CPU-Z in and around memory testing legit kept causing me to restart (not BSOD) or it just completely kills my SPD hub sensor. It’s happened with other vendor kits aside from G.SKILL as well. I think it’s almost like a Thaiphoon Burner situation. I don’t think sticks like to have their SPD hub read at certain times in OS (if at all). I do always make sure to disable SPD write to avoid dead stick issues though. Not sure if that setting has something to do with it.


----------



## affxct

opt33 said:


> Just found Igor labs used thermal imaging to compare ddr5 spd hub temps to hot spots on die, which is better way of measuring ic temp hot spots. They found consistent 10-15C higher IC hot spot temp vs spd temps at full load. May not be as high difference with heatsink (intel white papers show reduced hotspot temps with intels cpu ihs), but clearly temps higher.
> 
> spd temps still useful, just have to add 10-15C (higher difference at higher voltage) minus some reduction of hotspot temp from heatsink to spd temp, probably hotspot at least 10c higher even with heatsink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How hot does DDR5 memory really get? Readout value from SPD hub vs. real measurement at the module | Investigative | Page 2 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


Yep. Everyone’s D5 runs significantly warmer than what they’d think. Around 50-55c should mean 75c max actual so it should be relatively safe depending on the voltage one uses. It sucks we don’t get IC sensors anymore.


----------



## affxct

I want to grab G.SKILL’s software and potentially disable RGB but I’m a bit worried about what happened to the other person on the forum earlier this year.


----------



## newls1

Guys, im so damn stoked! This new A8 bios for us Unify X people is AMAZING BAR NONE!! I COULDNT DO ANYTHING CLOSE TO THIS MEMORY WITH THESE NEW LOW VOLTAGES. A8 is 100% A-Die tuned WITHOUT A DOUBT 
im nearly .70mv less on CPU VDDQ/TX voltages and working on 7700MHz now where as this wouldnt ever even post with the prior bios regardless what voltages i applied. Im willing to bet 7800+ Is obtainable now. I really appreciate everyones help and all my ranting about asking if 1.50 CPU VDDQ was safe to use. I dont have to worry about that voltage anymore as 1.43 now seems to be the sweet spot with this bios. It is so amazing how a small piece of updatable software can effect an entire system... Got to love (AND HATE) technology .
Here are my settings if you see anything that could use a change, please yell at me!


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Guys, im so damn stoked! This new A8 bios for us Unify X people is AMAZING BAR NONE!! I COULDNT DO ANYTHING CLOSE TO THIS MEMORY WITH THESE NEW LOW VOLTAGES. A8 is 100% A-Die tuned WITHOUT A DOUBT
> im nearly .100mv less on CPU VDDQ/TX voltages and working on 7700MHz now where as this wouldnt ever even post with the prior bios regardless what voltages i applied. Im willing to bet 7800+ Is obtainable now. I really appreciate everyones help and all my ranting about asking if 1.50 CPU VDDQ was safe to use. I dont have to worry about that voltage anymore as 1.40 now seems to be the sweet spot with this bios. It is so amazing how a small piece of updatable software can effect an entire system... Got to love (AND HATE) technology .
> Here are my settings if you see anything that could use a change, please yell at me!
> 
> View attachment 2584073


Nice one 
8k next


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> I want to grab G.SKILL’s software and potentially disable RGB but I’m a bit worried about what happened to the other person on the forum earlier this year.


I used ASUS Armoury Crate to disable its RGB.

I think you can uninstall armoury crate after


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> CPU-Z in and around memory testing legit kept causing me to restart (not BSOD) or it just completely kills my SPD hub sensor. It’s happened with other vendor kits aside from G.SKILL as well. I think it’s almost like a Thaiphoon Burner situation. I don’t think sticks like to have their SPD hub read at certain times in OS (if at all). I do always make sure to disable SPD write to avoid dead stick issues though. Not sure if that setting has something to do with it.


exact behavior I saw with both G.Skill 6400 and TeamGroup 7200 sets. There has to be an edge case that is awful.


----------



## Dodgexander

At the risk of stating the obvious, and something that was briefly already mentioned in the thread.

Don't bother at all with Hynix A-Die with a 12th gen CPU, especially if it's not a 12900k or one that you happen to know has a good IMC. Hours of searching and reading in this thread, and from other sources online you can expect max 7000mhz with a 12th gen, and that's one with a luckily good IMC. Most cap out lower, and if you have a 12700k you're likely to even cap out far lower than that.

The IMC in my 12700k sucks, the max I can get to boot is 6666 and even then, it's very unstable. You have to go down to 6400 to get stability and this is even with VDDQ TX and IMC set to 1.4v, 1.35v, 1.25v, 1.1v it doesn't matter. The quality of the IMC is so bad it doesn't matter which voltage is set.

So, you'd think; _ah so I can't get the high frequencies but that means I can tighten timings a lot on A-Die instead!_ *Nada*, the Team 7200 kit will not get tighter than 32-42-42-84 even at 6000 which is barely tighter than stock 34-42-42-84 settings!!

Sure, tightening some secondaries and tertiaries would help but I'm not prepared to be $400 down when I can't even tweak primary settings lower and having to run a 7200 kit at 6400.

This thread is so useful at times, but it also gives people unrealistic expectations sometimes. There are people who post 8000mhz with 12th gen CPUs, but they clearly have some kind of golden sample in both memory and CPU, plus they are using boards like the Asus Apex or EVGA Dark Kingpin which will clock a lot higher than others if you even have the IMC strength to begin with.

It's just not worth the hassle, or the cost right now. You're better off running crappy 5200 micron on 12th gen or if you want something a bit more premium the 6400 CL30 gskills/team ram.


----------



## tubs2x4

Dodgexander said:


> At the risk of stating the obvious, and something that was briefly already mentioned in the thread.
> 
> Don't bother at all with Hynix A-Die with a 12th gen CPU, especially if it's not a 12900k or one that you happen to know has a good IMC. Hours of searching and reading in this thread, and from other sources online you can expect max 7000mhz with a 12th gen, and that's one with a luckily good IMC. Most cap out lower, and if you have a 12700k you're likely to even cap out far lower than that.
> 
> The IMC in my 12700k sucks, the max I can get to boot is 6666 and even then, it's very unstable. You have to go down to 6400 to get stability and this is even with VDDQ TX and IMC set to 1.4v, 1.35v, 1.25v, 1.1v it doesn't matter. The quality of the IMC is so bad it doesn't matter which voltage is set.
> 
> So, you'd think; _ah so I can't get the high frequencies but that means I can tighten timings a lot on A-Die instead!_ *Nada*, the Team 7200 kit will not get tighter than 32-42-42-84 even at 6000 which is barely tighter than stock 34-42-42-84 settings!!
> 
> Sure, tightening some secondaries and tertiaries would help but I'm not prepared to be $400 down when I can't even tweak primary settings lower and having to run a 7200 kit at 6400.
> 
> This thread is so useful at times, but it also gives people unrealistic expectations sometimes. There are people who post 8000mhz with 12th gen CPUs, but they clearly have some kind of golden sample in both memory and CPU, plus they are using boards like the Asus Apex or EVGA Dark Kingpin which will clock a lot higher than others if you even have the IMC strength to begin with.
> 
> It's just not worth the hassle, or the cost right now. You're better off running crappy 5200 micron on 12th gen or if you want something a bit more premium the 6400 CL30 gskills/team ram.


Some salesmans in disguise?ha


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> Guys, im so damn stoked! This new A8 bios for us Unify X people is AMAZING BAR NONE!! I COULDNT DO ANYTHING CLOSE TO THIS MEMORY WITH THESE NEW LOW VOLTAGES. A8 is 100% A-Die tuned WITHOUT A DOUBT
> im nearly .70mv less on CPU VDDQ/TX voltages and working on 7700MHz now where as this wouldnt ever even post with the prior bios regardless what voltages i applied. Im willing to bet 7800+ Is obtainable now. I really appreciate everyones help and all my ranting about asking if 1.50 CPU VDDQ was safe to use. I dont have to worry about that voltage anymore as 1.43 now seems to be the sweet spot with this bios. It is so amazing how a small piece of updatable software can effect an entire system... Got to love (AND HATE) technology .
> Here are my settings if you see anything that could use a change, please yell at me!


had to further test and test and test more, and finally think i have it now. New voltages... still miles ahead from prior A60 bios. A8 bios is where its at people for A-Die users


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> had to further test and test and test more, and finally think i have it now. New voltages... still miles ahead from prior A60 bios. A8 bios is where its at people for A-Die users


Low temperatures for shure 

Link to A8 bios?


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Low temperatures for shure
> 
> Link to A8 bios?


its a little chilly in my pc room as window is open and its winter here, but on the flip side, this cpu is direct die cooled with a supercool waterblock.





MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X Gaming Motherboard ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors - 19+2 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0


The MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ATX motherboard features Direct 19+2 Phases and 105A SPS Power Solution, 4 x latest DDR5 DIMMs (dual channel) with Memory Boost architecture (6800+ MHz/OC), and dual steel-reinforced PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for heavy-duty GPU’s.




us.msi.com


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> exact behavior I saw with both G.Skill 6400 and TeamGroup 7200 sets. There has to be an edge case that is awful.


It got me so paranoid that I legit cold booted my PC and ran HCI up to 800% for a second time. It was so weird though. Like I had been testing and having consistent behaviour, and after that first lock-up from CPU-Z, I had weird behaviour.

Granted I did try to drop tRDRDsg and tWRWRsg to 7/7 because I figured I had to start HCI again anyway, but after I went to set them back to 8/8 because 7/7 was causing cascade errors, it’s almost like my timing adjustments didn’t save (I thought my sticks were broken or something) as the settings that previously ran up to 130% were spitting out bunched cascade errors at 8/8 just like at 7/7 early into the load distribution phase.

I had to do a 30s CMOS clear, reload the same settings that were at 130% before the first CPU-Z lockup, and then all seemed fine? I assume because I did a re-test it’s all good. Kinda worried now that if I clear CMOS again these settings won’t be stable, but they seemed to be running fine before both CMOS clears pre CPU-Z. Weird and convoluted situation.

There’s no way the Dark is struggling to re-train 7400 as I had 7200 totally stable with M-die previously, but I assume that something happened to where setting those two timings back to 8/8 like didn’t apply or something? It just makes no sense how that all went down. I really hope my sticks don’t die. Such a freakin’ weird event.


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> Daily Gaming memory overclock. Green Sticks non-binned 5600 OC to 8000MHz VDD / VDDQ 1.605 / 1.620 and VDDQIX 1.40. Cooling Water. No Overclock on the CPU yet.
> 
> View attachment 2584056
> View attachment 2584056


Nice results  Try out the 0031 bios, makes a huge difference with the green sticks. Lower voltage needed, better and easier training. I bet you will do 8200 with exact same settings 

edit: bump trcd and trp to 47 for 8200, and you probably can run trdrd_dg and twrwr_dg 7 with same voltage


----------



## ESRCJ

Thanks for the responses to my previous post. I tried a few things some of you suggested, but unfortunately I was not able to get 7800 stable. I was playing around with voltages and adjusted some of my timings, getting to just over an hour until I got an error. Any additional suggestions? It's hard to say if the error was temperature related or if voltages need to be fine-tuned further. Note that simply increasing voltages does not help. I get errors much more quickly with higher voltages.

Set in BIOS:
VDD = 1.42V
VDDQ = 1.42V
VCCSA = 1.15V
IMC VDD = 1.25V


----------



## steelbom

Hey guys, do you know if the X670E Aorus XTREME can support Sabrent 4x32GB memory or A-tech 4x32GB memory @ 4800MHz?


----------



## Agent-A01

ESRCJ said:


> Thanks for the responses to my previous post. I tried a few things some of you suggested, but unfortunately I was not able to get 7800 stable. I was playing around with voltages and adjusted some of my timings, getting to just over an hour until I got an error. Any additional suggestions? It's hard to say if the error was temperature related or if voltages need to be fine-tuned further. Note that simply increasing voltages does not help. I get errors much more quickly with higher voltages.
> 
> Set in BIOS:
> VDD = 1.42V
> VDDQ = 1.42V
> VCCSA = 1.15V
> IMC VDD = 1.25V
> 
> View attachment 2584119


Try tRDWR_sg/dg = 18, tWRWR_sg = 10, WRRD_SG = 62, tWRPRE/tWRPREDEN = 54.
If that doesn't help try setting tRCD and tRP = 47

IMC VDD looks a little low, you likely need more.
Also what's TX voltage?


----------



## ESRCJ

Agent-A01 said:


> Try tRDWR_sg/dg = 18, tWRWR_sg = 10, WRRD_SG = 62, tWRPRE/tWRPREDEN = 54.
> If that doesn't help try setting tRCD and tRP = 47
> 
> IMC VDD looks a little low, you likely need more.
> Also what's TX voltage?


Thanks. I tried those timings and I got an error at 1500% coverage. I've also tried looser primaries, but it makes no difference. Increasing IMC VDD has made things less stable before, but I'm going to try that one more time. IVR TX VDDQ is set to auto (reported at 1.40V in HWI). I wonder if messing with any of the PLL voltages would help. That was a crucial factor for Buildzoid when he was trying to stabilize 7200 in a recent video.


----------



## Agent-A01

ESRCJ said:


> Thanks. I tried those timings and I got an error at 1500% coverage. I've also tried looser primaries, but it makes no difference. Increasing IMC VDD has made things less stable before, but I'm going to try that one more time. IVR TX VDDQ is set to auto (reported at 1.40V in HWI). I wonder if messing with any of the PLL voltages would help. That was a crucial factor for Buildzoid when he was trying to stabilize 7200 in a recent video.


Try lower TX, i.e. set 1.3 and see if it errors faster. Increase until it disappears. I'm only using 1.35 for 7800.


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> Nice results  Try out the 0031 bios, makes a huge difference with the green sticks. Lower voltage needed, better and easier training. I bet you will do 8200 with exact same settings
> 
> edit: bump trcd and trp to 47 for 8200, and you probably can run trdrd_dg and twrwr_dg 7 with same voltage


Not good for my system. I did get my MC SP!


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> its a little chilly in my pc room as window is open and its winter here, but on the flip side, this cpu is direct die cooled with a supercool waterblock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X Gaming Motherboard ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors - 19+2 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0
> 
> 
> The MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ATX motherboard features Direct 19+2 Phases and 105A SPS Power Solution, 4 x latest DDR5 DIMMs (dual channel) with Memory Boost architecture (6800+ MHz/OC), and dual steel-reinforced PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for heavy-duty GPU’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> us.msi.com


i didn't realize they updated A8 this month? thought that was in October? checking mine now.
oh my last update was E7D28IMS.A81. cool! ill load up A80!


----------



## aznsniper911

ESRCJ said:


> Thanks for the responses to my previous post. I tried a few things some of you suggested, but unfortunately I was not able to get 7800 stable. I was playing around with voltages and adjusted some of my timings, getting to just over an hour until I got an error. Any additional suggestions? It's hard to say if the error was temperature related or if voltages need to be fine-tuned further. Note that simply increasing voltages does not help. I get errors much more quickly with higher voltages.
> 
> Set in BIOS:
> VDD = 1.42V
> VDDQ = 1.42V
> VCCSA = 1.15V
> IMC VDD = 1.25V
> 
> View attachment 2584119


Hey! Random question, have you been able to boot into windows with anything over 7800?


----------



## newls1

affxct said:


> It got me so paranoid that I legit cold booted my PC and ran HCI up to 800% for a second time. It was so weird though. Like I had been testing and having consistent behaviour, and after that first lock-up from CPU-Z, I had weird behaviour.
> 
> Granted I did try to drop tRDRDsg and tWRWRsg to 7/7 because I figured I had to start HCI again anyway, but after I went to set them back to 8/8 because 7/7 was causing cascade errors, it’s almost like my timing adjustments didn’t save (I thought my sticks were broken or something) as the settings that previously ran up to 130% were spitting out bunched cascade errors at 8/8 just like at 7/7 early into the load distribution phase.
> 
> I had to do a 30s CMOS clear, reload the same settings that were at 130% before the first CPU-Z lockup, and then all seemed fine? I assume because I did a re-test it’s all good. Kinda worried now that if I clear CMOS again these settings won’t be stable, but they seemed to be running fine before both CMOS clears pre CPU-Z. Weird and convoluted situation.
> 
> There’s no way the Dark is struggling to re-train 7400 as I had 7200 totally stable with M-die previously, but I assume that something happened to where setting those two timings back to 8/8 like didn’t apply or something? It just makes no sense how that all went down. I really hope my sticks don’t die. Such a freakin’ weird event.


the joy and pleasure of ddr5 overclocking. think we all have dealt with that before. im so used to applying most my voltage and memory settings in bios, save and exit. Then hard reset system by pulling main PSU plug out, wait 30-45sec, then power her back on. this assures me that the board will absorb new settings. You actually should do this procedure when you change CPU VDDQ and SA voltages as they are voltages to the internal FIVR and sometimes DO NOT apply unless you do this.


----------



## affxct

newls1 said:


> the joy and pleasure of ddr5 overclocking. think we all have dealt with that before. im so used to applying most my voltage and memory settings in bios, save and exit. Then hard reset system by pulling main PSU plug out, wait 30-45sec, then power her back on. this assures me that the board will absorb new settings. You actually should do this procedure when you change CPU VDDQ and SA voltages as they are voltages to the internal FIVR and sometimes DO NOT apply unless you do this.


No way, I never actually knew that. That does make a level of sense though. I’m beginning to wish I had never opened CPU-Z while stress testing the first time. Was at 130% so it likely would’ve run up to 800-1000% like the other tests and I wouldn’t have ever stressed about it or even have had to have done a re-test.

I’m beginning to wonder if the SPD hub doesn’t become more susceptible to blank-outs when tRFC is minimised and tREFI is relatively high. Granted I only use 65280 when doing above 7000 @ tRFC1 (Dark), but it never seems to react as badly to sensor reads with XMP for instance. Then again someone I’m speaking to is having severe SPD hub and sensor issues at XMP on Renegade RGB sticks.


----------



## Snop1K

hi all
I ordered a new computer for myself, but I thought after paying, I should have written right away. what kind of overclocking can such a config, tested by someone or maybe heard, are there any expectations? goal: maximum overclocking of RAM, so that more FPS and all things

ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex
13900k
DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 7200MHz C34 Memory Kit (CMT32GX5M2X7200C34)

googled - it seems that 13900k is chasing up to 6GHz without any problems, but there may be questions with RAM. I don’t monitor much, but I heard that new memory chips were announced and judging by the price of x2 for RAM XMP 7200 and 7600 from CORSAIR, maybe it’s that the purchased RAM XMP 7200 will not overclock anymore?

*or maybe someone has ready-made RAM settings that I can set right away so as not to manually select overclocking?*


----------



## affxct

Snop1K said:


> hi all
> I ordered a new computer for myself, but I thought after paying, I should have written right away. what kind of overclocking can such a config, tested by someone or maybe heard, are there any expectations? goal: maximum overclocking of RAM, so that more FPS and all things
> 
> ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex
> 13900k
> DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 7200MHz C34 Memory Kit (CMT32GX5M2X7200C34)
> 
> googled - it seems that 13900k is chasing up to 6GHz without any problems, but there may be questions with RAM. I don’t monitor much, but I heard that new memory chips were announced and judging by the price of x2 for RAM XMP 7200 and 7600 from CORSAIR, maybe it’s that the purchased RAM XMP 7200 will not overclock anymore?
> 
> *or maybe someone has ready-made RAM settings that I can set right away so as not to manually select overclocking?*


5.6 all-core for AVX and up to 8400MT/s depending on cooling and voltages you’re comfortable with. Tbh depending on bin quality and cooling, you have the fastest possible set of hardware money can buy.


----------



## opt33

ESRCJ said:


> Thanks. I tried those timings and I got an error at 1500% coverage. I've also tried looser primaries, but it makes no difference. Increasing IMC VDD has made things less stable before, but I'm going to try that one more time. IVR TX VDDQ is set to auto (reported at 1.40V in HWI). I wonder if messing with any of the PLL voltages would help. That was a crucial factor for Buildzoid when he was trying to stabilize 7200 in a recent video.


If I were you I would put in just primaries including raising tras and change all other settings to auto and run that. If fails, then adjust imc and tx until stable so you know you can run frequency before adjust second/tert. Once stable, then add back secondary and tertiary few at a time, when something fails you know it was the 2-3 settings you just entered and can pin down the issue and either increase dram vdd/vddq or back off ones entered. I always look at others settings for ideas, but still walk mine down few at time, so makes it easy to know the issue when errs, and each kit is a little different. And tcwl 36 (auto) will be more stable than 34.

edit: also if temp error you can back off trefi and test. I can run 7600c36 with my ram fan off with 58C temps without error 2hrs karhu with all same settings except trefi reduced to 30k. trefi 65k with ram fan off errors. however that test only works for 7600 on mine (which is not finicky voltage or temp wise). 7800 on mine is nearing edge of capability of one of my components so very temp/voltage finicky regardless of trefi.


----------



## robalm

What is going on here?
My samsung sticks at 6000mhz at 1.23 MC voltage and SA voltage 1.2v i get error right away in mt5 anta extrem.

So i lower the SA voltage to 0.95v and now runs fine.
I even lower the MC voltage to 1.15v and still works fine (have not tested lower than that).

Edit:
Before i failed after a few min at 6000mhz at 1.23 MC voltage and SA voltage 1.2v in mt5 anta extrem.
Now i run stable 6200mhz at 1.2 MC voltage and SA voltage 0.95 voltage (same thingt subtimming and same Dramvoltage)


----------



## Carillo

5600 c40 Hynix retesting with the new 0031 bios. It's pretty amazing how good this bios is! 8533 c34 with pretty tight subs, Keep pushing


----------



## opt33

7600c36 on z790 hero likely can be as rock stable as mdie on unifyx. (was burned gaming with voltage/temp finicky 7400c34 on unifyx)

karhu tests on 7600c36 (imc 1.38, tx 1.43, sa 1.23, all auto, have tried some higher and lower without issue)

1.41 vdd/vddq, trefi 55k/65K, temps 49c max---4hrs karhu stable (posted earlier)
1.43 vdd/vddq, trefi 65k, temps 53C max---------2hrs karhu stable (to see if higher vdd/vddq caused errors like with finicky 7400 on unifyx, it did not)
1.41vdd/vddq, trefi 65K, ram/rad fan off 58c---- -karhu error 28 mins.
1.42 vdd/vddq, trefi 35k ram fan off, max 57C--- karhu stable 13000% for 3hours (adding .01 dram volts and/or lower trefi less temp sensitive)..pic below

now walking trefi back up and trfc dwon using 1.42 vdd/vddq with ram fan off (guessing 45-55K trefi). For 24/7 ram fan will be on, but will have temp/voltage buffer for rock stable gaming. 
7800 with this 7200 kit is temp/voltage finicky but have 7600 bin kit coming to see if will do 7800 rock stable (ie allow reasonable volt/temp/setting changes without errors).
(if I wasnt lazy would get apex plus water cooling ram and run 8000 with less hassle than air, but too lazy to water cool ram, esp with changing kits)


----------



## z390e

@opt33 do you have any thoughts on Richtek vs Renesas PMIC's?


----------



## opt33

z390e said:


> @opt33 do you have any thoughts on Richtek vs Renesas PMIC's?


no way to know how different pmics matter, only manufacturers/vendors would have access to that comparison data if exists. Im interested in bin the ram was qualified, ie 7600 etc, not vendor specific (unless one of the vendors starts offering better ram cooling (corsair seem little better). If had 2 dimm z790 board and water cooled ram and could crank up volts would be less concerned with even the bin.


----------



## owikh84

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83) - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2201
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-7800 34-45-42-34-2T
VDD 1.55v | VDDQ 1.53v | TX VDDQ 1.45V | SA 1.25V | MC 1.3625V*









Despite lower AIDA64 latency, for some reason CL34 completed TM5 longer than CL36 by about 2 minutes.


----------



## opt33

owikh84 said:


> 13900KF SP106 (P118/E83) - P55/E43/R45
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2201
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heasinks
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> Despite lower AIDA64 latency, for some reason CL34 completed TM5 longer than CL36 by about 2 minutes.


7800c34 nice on air! bitspower heatsinks really seem to help with ram temps on air. makes one think the vendors could do a little better job with cooling solutions on higher end kits. Where did you get bitspower for air? I may be too lazy to watercool ram, but takes only 30 seconds to remove vendor heatsinks with hairdryer, might could handle that.


----------



## newls1

owikh84 said:


> 13900KF SP106 (P118/E83) - P55/E43/R45
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2201
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heasinks
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-7800 34-45-42-34-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.55v | TX VDDQ 1.45V | SA 1.25V | MC 1.3625V*
> View attachment 2584241
> 
> 
> Despite lower AIDA64 latency, for some reason CL34 completed TM5 longer than CL36 by about 2 minutes.


How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?

*Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

newls1 said:


> How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> *Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*


Same thing here with dark z690. 1.5v+ and error or bsod instantly.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> *Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*


I think he is using 1.50 vdd/vddq instead of 1.55, just typo, judging by volts in pic. watercooling ram has no issue with those voltages, and looks like his aftermarket bitspower heatsinks while not same as watercooling temps is much better than just ram fan. Those just using ram fan likely limited from high memory junctional temps at higher volts causing errors, junctional temps likely rise much faster than spd temp rise that we see, since spd sensor is relatively far from IC's.


----------



## owikh84

opt33 said:


> 7800c34 nice on air! bitspower heatsinks really seem to help with ram temps on air. makes one think the vendors could do a little better job with cooling solutions on higher end kits. Where did you get bitspower for air? I may be too lazy to watercool ram, but takes only 30 seconds to remove vendor heatsinks with hairdryer, might could handle that.





newls1 said:


> How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> *Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*





opt33 said:


> I think he is using 1.50 vdd/vddq instead of 1.55, just typo, judging by volts in pic. watercooling ram has no issue with those voltages, and looks like his aftermarket bitspower heatsinks while not same as watercooling temps is much better than just ram fan. Those just using ram fan likely limited from high memory junctional temps at higher volts causing errors, junctional temps likely rise much faster than spd temp rise that we see, since spd sensor is relatively far from IC's.


VDD/VDDQ 1.55v/1.53v BIOS set.
I got these Bitspower heatsinks 8 years ago for my old build, together with their RAM waterblocks (not using). I feel that on air these aluminium heatsinks work better than my Iceman copper heatsinks.


----------



## Dodgexander

Where are people buying these infamous _green sticks_?
Is it really $130 a piece?
Sk Hynix 16gb Hmcg78agbua081n Desktop Computer Memory 16g Ddr5 5600b Ram - Buy Hmcg78agbua081n,Ram,Ddr Product on Alibaba.com


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> *Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*


I just ran tm5 with 1.5 vdd/vddq stable for 5 mins (image below, could have run an hour without issue) by using outside cool air (10c). Using higher thermal transfer material and heatsink like owikh84's aftermarket solution is even better, water + better thermal pads better yet. Tm5 1.5 vdd/vddq at normal ambient = instant (1 second) bsod from likely instant junctional temps skyrocketing despite spd temps reading 29C. 

Our trying to know what instant junctional memory temps are by reading spd temp sensor that is not in hot spot of IC, not even internal in IC, and not even on IC but an inch+ away.....is like running prime 95 small ffts on 13900k with 20 year old stock intel air cooler bsoding because junctional temps instantly hit 100+C, yet only seeing temps on a sensor an inch away that read near ambient because hadnt had time to heat up. spd temps more useful after temps reach steady state 10+ mins, then junctional temps 15-20C higher at 1.3v, maybe 25-30+ higher 1.5v, per igor labs.


----------



## CptSpig

Dodgexander said:


> Where are people buying these infamous _green sticks_?
> Is it really $130 a piece?
> Sk Hynix 16gb Hmcg78agbua081n Desktop Computer Memory 16g Ddr5 5600b Ram - Buy Hmcg78agbua081n,Ram,Ddr Product on Alibaba.com


SuperBuy.


----------



## aznsniper911

Dodgexander said:


> Where are people buying these infamous _green sticks_?
> Is it really $130 a piece?
> Sk Hynix 16gb Hmcg78agbua081n Desktop Computer Memory 16g Ddr5 5600b Ram - Buy Hmcg78agbua081n,Ram,Ddr Product on Alibaba.com


Taobao, looks like it’s also $90-100 USD per stick before shipping cost.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Just to confirm. Gskill 7600c36 kit is mdie or a die? Heard from 1 and he said its m die.


----------



## bianbao.dev

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Just to confirm. Gskill 7600c36 kit is mdie or a die? Heard from 1 and he said its m die.


a-die only.


----------



## motivman

Z790 Apex in stock at newegg, for anyone that is interested...


----------



## hrtz47

Anyone here use MSI Z790? I have Z790I Edge cant use Asrock Timing Config and MSI Dragon Ball.

Asrock Timing Config said error like below in the attachment but still open the app but the value is 65535 across the timings, and for the MSI Dragon Ball said my board is not supported.









thanks!


----------



## bscool

hrtz47 said:


> Anyone here use MSI Z790? I have Z790I Edge cant use Asrock Timing Config and MSI Dragon Ball.
> 
> Asrock Timing Config said error like below in the attachment but still open the app but the value is 65535 across the timings, and for the MSI Dragon Ball said my board is not supported.
> View attachment 2584261
> 
> 
> thanks!


Need the newer versions _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...

I dont know where the newest MSI Dragon Ball is I havent used it in a long time.

Newer Memwteakit shows TRCD WR MemTweakIt_20221101.zip


----------



## newls1

newls1 said:


> How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> *Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*


can someone assist with the question in red please?


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> 5600 c40 Hynix retesting with the new 0031 bios. It's pretty amazing how good this bios is! 8533 c34 with pretty tight subs, Keep pushing


You were right bios 0031 is the best right now. 5600 Hynix at 8000 voltages dropped by 8mv!


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> How are you using 1.55vdimm on A-Die!!?? As soon as I go over 1.45 the errors come out faster then the homeless looking for free handouts! A-Die is so sensitive to voltage. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> *Also, does tRRD_L need to be at "8" on these higher speeds? Im still on "7" @ 7712Mhz*


You aren't watercooling them. That's what you are doing wrong


----------



## Dodgexander

People seem to be oddly secretive in the thread with this.

Did some searching and found:





Superbuy-Shopping Agent


代购，Superbuy.com,Shopping Agent, Superbuy.com



m.superbuy.com





Price per stick and you pay roughly 10% more than using taobao directly. Price excludes postage and customs duty tax.

Not worth it in my case but with a 13th gen and capable motherboard this could potentially save you around $200 if you're looking at 7200+ branded kits.

Demonstrates the ridiculous profit margin the memory companies are also getting by selling these outside of china with their own XMP and RGB and maybe custom pmic.


----------



## rs199208

Dodgexander said:


> People seem to be oddly secretive in the thread with this.
> 
> Did some searching and found:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superbuy-Shopping Agent
> 
> 
> 代购，Superbuy.com,Shopping Agent, Superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> m.superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price per stick and you pay roughly 10% more than using taobao directly. Price excludes postage and customs duty tax.
> 
> Not worth it in my case but with a 13th gen and capable motherboard this could potentially save you around $200 if you're looking at 7200+ branded kits.
> 
> Demonstrates the ridiculous profit margin the memory companies are also getting by selling these outside of china with their own XMP and RGB and maybe custom pmic.


that is much more expensive than just buying a gskill 6400 A die kit here in the states local near me even in RGB flavor which is what i did for $219. then i ripped the heatsinks off using a hairdryer and put them under a water block. can just use the gskill app to turn off the LED.
now if you can find binned kits by someone trustworthy it might be good deal?


----------



## newls1

you know, i never thought of shutting off the RGB crap on these 7600 GSkills. Will that make any temp difference? And i guess ill need to install some gskill software bloat for this?


----------



## bhav

How are people managing with 2x32 kits? Any of those at 7000+ mdie / 7600+ adie, or is this strictly 2x16 SR only?


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> you know, i never thought of shutting off the RGB crap on these 7600 GSkills. Will that make any temp difference? And i guess ill need to install some gskill software bloat for this?


yes, it drops temps. i installed the app but declined to allow it in startup apps. all i have to do is open the app whenever i want the LED off, then right click it in the notifications and exit it twice then its gone from task manager and no LED are on.
if just rebooting the LED usually stays off.

by the way can get the gskill 6400 kit right now on Newegg for $215 which means can also get that price at Microcenter while picking and choosing which Hynix die in person.


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> I just ran tm5 with 1.5 vdd/vddq stable for 5 mins (image below, could have run an hour without issue) by using outside cool air (10c). Using higher thermal transfer material and heatsink like owikh84's aftermarket solution is even better, water + better thermal pads better yet. Tm5 1.5 vdd/vddq at normal ambient = instant (1 second) bsod from likely instant junctional temps skyrocketing despite spd temps reading 29C.
> 
> Our trying to know what instant junctional memory temps are by reading spd temp sensor that is not in hot spot of IC, not even internal in IC, and not even on IC but an inch+ away.....is like running prime 95 small ffts on 13900k with 20 year old stock intel air cooler bsoding because junctional temps instantly hit 100+C, yet only seeing temps on a sensor an inch away that read near ambient because hadnt had time to heat up. spd temps more useful after temps reach steady state 10+ mins, then junctional temps 15-20C higher at 1.3v, maybe 25-30+ higher 1.5v, per igor labs.
> 
> View attachment 2584257


This confirms my issues with higher volts on dimms aswell. Higher volts = less stability while SPD temps are roughly the same.
On another topic though, I'm buying new higher binned kits alongside an apex thats being shipped currently. G skill 7600 or Teamgroup 7600? Won't modify the kits, just run them air cooled. TG better heatsinks? TG not sold in Sweden, but might try and ship them in from EU somewhere.


----------



## rs199208

bhav said:


> How are people managing with 2x32 kits? Any of those at 7000+ mdie / 7600+ adie, or is this strictly 2x16 SR only?


i plan on water cooling a dual rank A die kit after i upgrade to a Z790 and a 13900KS.
don't think will attempt that before lol!


----------



## bscool

bhav said:


> How are people managing with 2x32 kits? Any of those at 7000+ mdie / 7600+ adie, or is this strictly 2x16 SR only?


I have seen from 6400 on M die(z690 Unify X) with 2x32 to 7000+ on A die with 2x32(z690 Dark) Review: DDR5 SK Hynix A-die 32 GB 5600B dual rank - Overclocking.com

Both are DR from what I have seen. I would think with z790 MB you could do 6600 to 7200 + with 2x32 and good MB.


----------



## aznsniper911

Dodgexander said:


> People seem to be oddly secretive in the thread with this.
> 
> Did some searching and found:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superbuy-Shopping Agent
> 
> 
> 代购，Superbuy.com,Shopping Agent, Superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> m.superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price per stick and you pay roughly 10% more than using taobao directly. Price excludes postage and customs duty tax.
> 
> Not worth it in my case but with a 13th gen and capable motherboard this could potentially save you around $200 if you're looking at 7200+ branded kits.
> 
> Demonstrates the ridiculous profit margin the memory companies are also getting by selling these outside of china with their own XMP and RGB and maybe custom pmic.


No one is really being secretive about the green sticks, it's just not a huge amount of buyers in the first place and even less now with the proliferation of the 6400 C32 A die kits . That and Taobao isn't the easiest to link for most people, especially if you are in the USA with ATT home internet (I myself have to use the APP for it)


----------



## bhav

bscool said:


> I have seen from 6400 on M die(z690 Unify X) with 2x32 to 7000+ on A die with 2x32(z690 Dark) Review: DDR5 SK Hynix A-die 32 GB 5600B dual rank - Overclocking.com
> 
> Both are DR from what I have seen. I would think with z790 MB you could do 6600 to 7200 + with 2x32 and good MB.


Yea I'm really going to have to wait for 2x32 Gb SR modules then, so now I'm thinking to keep hunting for a second hand 2x16 Gb SR Micron B die 4400 kit to add to my current one so I don't end up with problems if I need more than 32 Gb any sooner.


----------



## opt33

grilli4nt said:


> This confirms my issues with higher volts on dimms aswell. Higher volts = less stability while SPD temps are roughly the same.
> On another topic though, I'm buying new higher binned kits alongside an apex thats being shipped currently. G skill 7600 or Teamgroup 7600? Won't modify the kits, just run them air cooled. TG better heatsinks? TG not sold in Sweden, but might try and ship them in from EU somewhere.


almost all the ram thermal adhesive strips I can find sold in bulk (like vendors would buy) are 0.6 w/mk, few less, the highest I found 1.5 w/mk. The heatsinks are not the problem, the problem is 0.6 w/mk (less likely 1.5) ram adhesive strips. Intels solder is 80 w/mk, liquid metal 40 w/mk, back when intel was using paste for tim1 it was 5 w/mk and that caused issues, granted cpu power density higher, but imagine temps if intel used 0.6 w/mk or 1.5w/mk. Ram vendors need a better thermal transfer solution. bitspower heatsinks only better because made for thermal pads (10+w/mk) and have screws so can use thermal solution you want and reattach heatsink, 17x thermal conductance (even though thicker bondline).

And if both TG and gskill are using same 0.6w/mk thermal adhesive strips (just TG is also cooling pmic which is irrelevant except shows lower spd temps despite memory junction temps being same), dont see any difference between two, unless one is better binned.

maybe vendors need to stop selling ram with heatsinks since they suck at it (like intel stopped selling cheapo coolers with high end cpus) and vendors start selling easy to apply heatsinks/thermal pads separately if too cheap to give us better thermal solution up front. But owikh84 using thermal pads/heatsinks his spd temps lower and more importantly his junctional temps are probably drastically lower to point he can run 1.55 without issue. Huge difference even though still on air.

edit: thermal pads can buy on amazon are 17 w/mk, 35 w/mk.


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> almost all the ram thermal adhesive strips I can find sold in bulk (like vendors would buy) are 0.6 w/mk, few less, the highest I found 1.5 w/mk. The heatsinks are not the problem, the problem is 0.6 w/mk (less likely 1.5) ram adhesive strips. Intels solder is 80 w/mk, liquid metal 40 w/mk, back when intel was using paste for tim1 it was 5 w/mk and that caused issues, granted cpu power density higher, but imagine temps if intel used 0.6 w/mk or 1.5w/mk. Ram vendors need a better thermal transfer solution. bitspower heatsinks only better because have screws so can use thermal solution you want and reattach heatsink with screws and made for thermal pads, which can be 10+ w/mk, ie17x thermal conductance (even though thicker bondline).
> 
> And if both TG and gskill are using same 0.6w/mk thermal adhesive strips (just TG is also cooling pmic which is irrelevant except shows lower spd temps despite memory junction temps being same), dont see any difference between two, unless one is better binned.
> 
> maybe vendors need to stop selling ram with heatsinks since they suck at it (like intel stopped selling cheapo coolers with high end cpus) and vendors start selling easy to apply heatsinks/thermal pads separately if too cheap to give us better thermal solution up front. But owikh84 using thermal pads/heatsinks his spd temps lower and more importantly his junctional temps are probably drastically lower to point he can run 1.55 without issue. Huge difference even though still on air.


Thanks. Blowing 4090-hot-air on the sticks during gaming, not sure I want that heat to transfer back into the sticks at a 80w/Mk rate tho 😝


----------



## ihog6hog

hrtz47 said:


> Anyone here use MSI Z790? I have Z790I Edge cant use Asrock Timing Config and MSI Dragon Ball.
> 
> Asrock Timing Config said error like below in the attachment but still open the app but the value is 65535 across the timings, and for the MSI Dragon Ball said my board is not supported.
> View attachment 2584261
> 
> 
> thanks!


MemTweaklt -> MemTweakIt_20221101.zip
AsrTCSetup 4.0.14-> AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar

For MSI Z790

Dragon Power use version 1.0.0.19-Intel -> MSI Dragon Power1.0.0.19-intel.zip
Dragon Ball use version 1.0.0.12-Intel -> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq-6TJUWhyquhGf2-970AlCJUhKs?e=koVuhH

My MSI Z790I Edge Wifi work


----------



## spiroh

What would be best between the 7600 c36 vs the 7200 c34? Would the c34 be a noticeable latency improvement over the c36?


----------



## Nizzen

spiroh said:


> What would be best between the 7600 c36 vs the 7200 c34? Would the c34 be a noticeable latency improvement over the c36?


Pretty much the same on xmp. Same dog%^€ xmp performance


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

No idea after switch from dark z690 to apex z790, now I cant boot xmp 7600c36. After first boot, it did 8200c32 then run r23 and it shut down pc. Now cant boot xmp.


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> You were right bios 0031 is the best right now. 5600 Hynix at 8000 voltages dropped by 8mv!
> 
> View attachment 2584274
> View attachment 2584274


Set TWR to auto ,then TWRpre to 44, and TWRpden to 43. Need to Power cycle and retrain


----------



## Carillo

Thanh Nguyen said:


> No idea after switch from dark z690 to apex z790, now I cant boot xmp 7600c36. After first boot, it did 8200c32 then run r23 and it shut down pc. Now cant boot xmp.


8200 c32 takes a lot of MC, probably, so based on the pc shuts down you probably had to little. You need to clear cmos and Power cycle


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Carillo said:


> 8200 c32 takes a lot of MC, probably, so based on the pc shuts down you probably had to little. You need to clear cmos and Power cycle


U mean turn the power button on the psu then hit the reset bios at the back of the mobo? Did it but still no boot when choose xmp 1. Only boot when do nothing with after after reset bios.


----------



## rs199208

Thanh Nguyen said:


> No idea after switch from dark z690 to apex z790, now I cant boot xmp 7600c36. After first boot, it did 8200c32 then run r23 and it shut down pc. Now cant boot xmp.


i'm tempted to just pull the trigger on the Z790 Apex. tired of waiting the new Dark. did you switch because of bios issues?


----------



## Carillo

Dodgexander said:


> People seem to be oddly secretive in the thread with this.
> 
> Did some searching and found:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superbuy-Shopping Agent
> 
> 
> 代购，Superbuy.com,Shopping Agent, Superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> m.superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price per stick and you pay roughly 10% more than using taobao directly. Price excludes postage and customs duty tax.
> 
> Not worth it in my case but with a 13th gen and capable motherboard this could potentially save you around $200 if you're looking at 7200+ branded kits.
> 
> Demonstrates the ridiculous profit margin the memory companies are also getting by selling these outside of china with their own XMP and RGB and maybe custom pmic.


This topic has been discussed 1000 times in this thread, no one is secretly trying to hide anything. If you buy tray sticks from taobao , they are probably already tested and not the best. Don’t expect similar results as you see from some of us. My sticks is binned from 100 sticks


----------



## dante`afk

mine boots just fine with 7600 xmp profile.

but again here, the apex needs so ridiculously long to boot up compared to unifyx


----------



## Carillo

Thanh Nguyen said:


> U mean turn the power button on the psu then hit the reset bios at the back of the mobo? Did it but still no boot when choose xmp 1. Only boot when do nothing with after after reset bios.


 Clear cmos, hold button for 10 seconds , then turn of psu. Wait 10 more seconds


----------



## Carillo

spiroh said:


> What would be best between the 7600 c36 vs the 7200 c34? Would the c34 be a noticeable latency improvement over the c36?


If you wait 2 more days to pull the trigger , I receive a retail 6400 c32 A-die kit I will test on air


----------



## gtz

So I decided to water-cool my RAM, after the latest BIOS for the Z690 Classy I can taste 7200-7400 stable. Hopefully my new alphacool RAM blocks get here tomorrow but will probably get here Friday.

Very impressed that my 100 dollar open box 5600mhz cheapo team group kit can hit these numbers. Running 6800 currently with decent voltages but I need to crank the voltages to reach stability at 7200-7400.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

rs199208 said:


> i'm tempted to just pull the trigger on the Z790 Apex. tired of waiting the new Dark. did you switch because of bios issues?


I switch because i cant get anything stable 7800-8000 c32 c34 on dark but look like its maybe the stick I got. Mc score is 88 is bad for 8000+.


----------



## Carillo

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I switch because i cant get anything stable 7800-8000 c32 c34 on dark but look like its maybe the stick I got. Mc score is 88 is bad for 8000+.


My IMC is 77, I can do 8600 HCI. Another guy from Germany is benching 8800 with 73 IMC. So I’m not 100% sure this number means anything , but if it does , you have one of the best


----------



## aznsniper911

I remember a while back we saw some A die sticks with different layer PCBs, is that something to still look out for or is it moot?


----------



## Super suave

Hitting that 64 ns wall sometimes 70 with the Gskill xmp 7200, kit. Any timing recommendations to get this under 50? Need for warzone if you feel my pain ;p z690 unify x and 12900ks


----------



## Dodgexander

rs199208 said:


> that is much more expensive than just buying a gskill 6400 A die kit here in the states local near me even in RGB flavor which is what i did for $219. then i ripped the heatsinks off using a hairdryer and put them under a water block. can just use the gskill app to turn off the LED.
> now if you can find binned kits by someone trustworthy it might be good deal?


It's not more expensive, but it may work out to be the same after tax and postage.
The issue with the 6400 kits is that there are also M die ones floating about, not everyone can buy locally.


aznsniper911 said:


> No one is really being secretive about the green sticks, it's just not a huge amount of buyers in the first place and even less now with the proliferation of the 6400 C32 A die kits . That and Taobao isn't the easiest to link for most people, especially if you are in the USA with ATT home internet (I myself have to use the APP for it)


You can use an agent like superbuy that I just linked to avoid taobao directly.


Carillo said:


> This topic has been discussed 1000 times in this thread, no one is secretly trying to hide anything. If you buy tray sticks from taobao , they are probably already tested and not the best. Don’t expect similar results as you see from some of us. My sticks is binned from 100 sticks


I searched the thread and couldn't find anything. So how are you buying binned sticks?


Carillo said:


> My IMC is 77, I can do 8600 HCI. Another guy from Germany is benching 8800 with 73 IMC. So I’m not 100% sure this number means anything , but if it does , you have one of the best


What does the MC score mean? Is it different from the CPU score?


----------



## aznsniper911

Guess my Z790 Exteme is hitting a wall beyond 7800, just tried another 13900 KF with a similar IMC and it won’t boot past 7800 either.


----------



## Carillo

I have seen a correlation between IC batch and bin on A-die sticks. as you can see here, my greens are 229A and G.skill 7600 233A. These are quite similar in bin quality. A buddy has been testing a set of 7200 Team Group that have 152A, these are horribly bad binned and need 1.79VDD to boot the 8533... just sharing my findings
















.


----------



## TraumatikOC

Super suave said:


> Hitting that 64 ns wall sometimes 70 with the Gskill xmp 7200, kit. Any timing recommendations to get this under 50? Need for warzone if you feel my pain ;p z690 unify x and 12900ks


Did you try the asus hynix 7600 profile in bios, its what im using stable. Can start there it should give you 55ns for memory.


----------



## Dodgexander

Carillo said:


> I have seen a correlation between IC batch and bin on A-die sticks. as you can see here, my greens are 229A and G.skill 7600 233A. These are quite similar in bin quality. A buddy has been testing a set of 7200 Team Group that have 152A, these are horribly bad binned and need 1.79VDD to boot the 8533... just sharing my findings


So how did you obtain such good binned greens?


----------



## Carillo

Dodgexander said:


> So how did you obtain such good binned greens?


Me and @Nizzen bought them binned from Splave for 500+ dollar pr kit.

this was two out of 7 kits from a 100 stick batch


----------



## Thunderclap

Seems like G.SKILL has released two more new A-Die kits:

*2X16GB 7800 36-46-46-125 1.45V
2X16GB 8000 38-48-48-128 1.45V*



http://imgur.com/OYhInZm


AFAIK they are also releasing *2X32GB 6800/7200/7400* A-Die kits very soon as well.


----------



## CptSpig

Dodgexander said:


> So how did you obtain such good binned greens?


He bought them binned from Splave on HWBot.


----------



## CptSpig

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I switch because i cant get anything stable 7800-8000 c32 c34 on dark but look like its maybe the stick I got. Mc score is 88 is bad for 8000+.


My MC SP is 79 P-Cores-121 and E-Cores 88 and my chip is very good.


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> Me and @Nizzen bought them binned from Splave for 500+ dollar pr kit.
> 
> this was two out of 7 kits from a 100 stick batch


Splave did say there were only one or two bad sticks out of the 100 he binned.


----------



## opt33

Thunderclap said:


> Seems like G.SKILL has released two more new A-Die kits:
> 
> *2X16GB 7800 36-46-46-125 1.45V
> 2X16GB 8000 38-48-48-128 1.45V*
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/OYhInZm
> 
> 
> AFAIK they are also releasing *2X32GB 6800/7200/7400* A-Die kits very soon as well.


wondering if those gskill 1.45v kits have better thermal solutions or better heat tolerance. on my tg 7200 kit using TM5, 1.45 volts errors because of temps regardless of frequency/settings, 1.47v spits errors, 1.48+v is bsod.


----------



## CptSpig

Dodgexander said:


> People seem to be oddly secretive in the thread with this.
> 
> Did some searching and found:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superbuy-Shopping Agent
> 
> 
> 代购，Superbuy.com,Shopping Agent, Superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> m.superbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price per stick and you pay roughly 10% more than using taobao directly. Price excludes postage and customs duty tax.
> 
> Not worth it in my case but with a 13th gen and capable motherboard this could potentially save you around $200 if you're looking at 7200+ branded kits.
> 
> Demonstrates the ridiculous profit margin the memory companies are also getting by selling these outside of china with their own XMP and RGB and maybe custom pmic.


This is were I purchased my green sticks. Note: if anyone is planning on using these there is no XMP! Manual tuning only.


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> Splave did say there were only one or two bad sticks out of the 100 he binned.


never said they were bad, but only 14 out of 100 was good enough


----------



## CptSpig

dante`afk said:


> mine boots just fine with 7600 xmp profile.
> 
> but again here, the apex needs so ridiculously long to boot up compared to unifyx


Do you have fast boot disabled? My rig boots up fast once I am done with memory OC and enable fast boot.


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> never said they were bad, but only 14 out of 100 was good enough


I am not saying you were wrong.  If you look at the binned sale thread he sold 10 the first round and nine the third round. Not sure about the second round. At least 29 or 30 kits. The dude made bank!!


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> I am not saying you were wrong.  If you look at the binned sale thread he sold 10 the first round and nine the third round. Not sure about the second round. At least 29 or 30 kits. The dude made bank!!


If he only sells 10-20% of the sticks purchased, that’s can’t be very profitable even with 50% markup


----------



## dante`afk

CptSpig said:


> Do you have fast boot disabled? My rig boots up fast once I am done with memory OC and enable fast boot.


yea its enabled


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> If he only sells 10-20% of the sticks purchased, that’s can’t be very profitable even with 50% markup


Hey how much voltage VDD and VVDQ in the bios for 8533? HWInfo is always lower.


----------



## Tadaschi

sugi0lover said:


> cmo file contains bios setup, so you can load the cmo file in the bios and all setup is there.
> But you need the same mb.


where can i download the bios 0801?


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> Hey how much voltage VDD and VVDQ in the bios for 8533? HWInfo is always lower.


1.68/1.66


----------



## CptSpig

Carillo said:


> 1.68/1.66


Thanks! I have one stick where the VDDQ is 2mv higher than the other stick. Now that I figured this out things are going smoother.


----------



## newls1

I disabled the damn RGB puke on my gskill 7600's... Hoping to drop a degree or 2 off the temps!


----------



## Carillo

newls1 said:


> I disabled the damn RGB puke on my gskill 7600's... Hoping to drop a degree or 2 off the temps!


thaiphoon burner ?


----------



## Agent-A01

Carillo said:


> Set TWR to auto ,then TWRpre to 44, and TWRpden to 43. Need to Power cycle and retrain


Why 44 and 43 and not 44/44 or 43/43? I typically see these matching from others


----------



## z390e

opt33 said:


> wondering if those gskill 1.45v kits have better thermal solutions or better heat tolerance. on my tg 7200 kit using TM5, 1.45 volts errors because of temps regardless of frequency/settings, 1.47v spits errors, 1.48+v is bsod.


1.4 works for me fwiw


----------



## opt33

z390e said:


> 1.4 works for me fwiw


yeah 1.40 to 1.44 works on mine without issue and apparently news1 as well, above 1.45 = errors from junctional temps. So either those gskills have less temp issue/better thermals, or they are cutting it close with 1.45v, have to wait until someone has them.


----------



## newls1

Carillo said:


> thaiphoon burner ?


no sir i just used the damn gskill lighting app, installed it, and disabled RGB. Then deleted the bloatware software but apparently you need to keep the software on the system cause the damn lights are back on after I shut the system off. PISSES ME OFF. IS there anyway to perma disable them without physically breaking them


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

newls1 said:


> no sir i just used the damn gskill lighting app, installed it, and disabled RGB. Then deleted the bloatware software but apparently you need to keep the software on the system cause the damn lights are back on after I shut the system off. PISSES ME OFF. IS there anyway to perma disable them without physically breaking them


That's annoying having to need the software installed. One reason I returned my 7200MHz G.Skill. Corsair Dominators, you can install the software to turn off RGB, then uninstall. They stay off for good.

Waiting for Corsair 7600 to come back instock and also be at a more reasonable price compared to Team Group and G.Skill. Corsair 7600, $809..

Corsair 7200, $489. that's CAD.


----------



## CptSpig

newls1 said:


> no sir i just used the damn gskill lighting app, installed it, and disabled RGB. Then deleted the bloatware software but apparently you need to keep the software on the system cause the damn lights are back on after I shut the system off. PISSES ME OFF. IS there anyway to perma disable them without physically breaking them


Green Sticks 5600? No RGB just pure nakedness!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> no sir i just used the damn gskill lighting app, installed it, and disabled RGB. Then deleted the bloatware software but apparently you need to keep the software on the system cause the damn lights are back on after I shut the system off. PISSES ME OFF. IS there anyway to perma disable them without physically breaking them


It's harmless app. Use autoruns if think it's in startup. I just right cluck exit and it's gone till need it next. Can disable anything that may do something u don't like.
I have much of windows 11 stripped anyway.


----------



## Super suave

TraumatikOC said:


> Did you try the asus hynix 7600 profile in bios, its what im using stable. Can start there it should give you 55ns for memory.


Well I’m on a unif y x? I have played with the profile 7600 cl 34 profile 1.2 SA 1.4/1.4 vddqs and have been getting errors after 1 min of occt. I am by no means an expert haha, trying to learn


----------



## newls1

rs199208 said:


> It's harmless app. Use autoruns if think it's in startup. I just right cluck exit and it's gone till need it next. Can disable anything that may do something u don't like.
> I have much of windows 11 stripped anyway.


i guess so, its the only app i have in startup as my OS is actually a stripped down ISO. But even with it on and in the task bar, im @ 1.9GB ram usage still at desktop. Cant complain. I guess ill just need to leave this app starting up.


----------



## newls1

Super suave said:


> Well I’m on a unif y x? I have played with the profile 7600 cl 34 profile 1.2 SA 1.4/1.4 vddqs and have been getting errors after 1 min of occt. I am by no means an expert haha, trying to learn


If you havent yet, UPDATE TO THE NEW A8 BIOS ON MSI'S SITE NOW! It is 100% A-Die tuned then once flash update is complete, leave all ram voltages to auto and boot xmp. im willing to bet it will be totally stable. Once you get that baseline established, then start tweaking your timings and lock in voltages. A8 bios made all the difference for this ram. I was struggling a few days too buddy!


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing 9000cl38 booting and aida64 bench by Doojin


----------



## z390e

I dont see how anyone can want to use DDR4 with scores like that post @sugi0lover


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

I picked up 7600Mhz ram yesterday at microcenter. My motherboard is a limiting factor at this point no doubt. It'll run the same settings my m die does at 7000Mhz 1t but can't stabilize anything over that not even 2t. Won't even boot xmp 7600Mhz. With this m die I could hit 6800Mhz 1t on my apex and on my dark kingpin I get 7000Mhz 1t. This is why at this point I know it's the motherboard for sure. There's no other explanation. 

I wonder if we'll get a bios update that'll allow me to push further or if it's just at it's limit period.


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> sharing 9000cl38 booting and aida64 bench by Doojin
> View attachment 2584529


Do you know what his MC SP is?


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> Do you know what his MC SP is?


It's over 9000 😁😆


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> Do you know what his MC SP is?


MC SP 88~89


----------



## Kjsoak

TraumatikOC said:


> Did you try the asus hynix 7600 profile in bios, its what im using stable. Can start there it should give you 55ns for memory.


Where can I activate the "asus hynix 7600 profile" in the Bios? I'm running a hero z790 with gskill 7600 cl36 sticks. With the 0031 beta bios ( the first one with MC Sp rating) , with xmp tweaked settings i'm only stable until 7400. 
Thanks


----------



## opt33

Kjsoak said:


> Where can I activate the "asus hynix 7600 profile" in the Bios? I'm running a hero z790 with gskill 7600 cl36 sticks. With the 0031 beta bios ( the first one with MC Sp rating) , with xmp tweaked settings i'm only stable until 7400.
> Thanks


extreme tweaker>>dram timing control>>memory presets>>load hynix 7600 1.4 2x16


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing stable 8800cl36 setup by Doojin
*Z790 APEX 0031 Beta Bios
8800 36-49-49-34 1.59V VDD 1.59v / VDDQ 1.56v / TX 1.4v / Mc 1.55v / SA 1.2v*


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

sugi0lover said:


> MC SP 88~89


Reading of MC SP limited to z790 apex atm ?


----------



## sugi0lover

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> Reading of MC SP limited to z790 apex atm ?


I read ROG MAXIMUS Z790 series like hero, extreme can read it too.


----------



## opt33

Kjsoak said:


> Where can I activate the "asus hynix 7600 profile" in the Bios? I'm running a hero z790 with gskill 7600 cl36 sticks. With the 0031 beta bios ( the first one with MC Sp rating) , with xmp tweaked settings i'm only stable until 7400.
> Thanks


I would try as is first. I have lower binned kit 7200, so to run it I have to increase vdd/vddq to 1.44, then use colder temps (a/c) to prevent temp errors. As is, I err in 2 mins of tm5.

If not stable, first thing I would do is increase vdd/vddq from 1.40 to 1.42, but you may be stable as is.

To run it at normal ambient on my lower 7200 bin, I can make 4 changes and be stabe:

1) Change 7600 36-44-44 to 7600 36-46-46 which allows slightly reduced vdd/vddq
2) reduce trefi to 35-55k, which allows less vdd/vddq (plus most latency improvements occur by 65K).
3) increase vdd/vddq from 1.40 to 1.42.
4) increase RTP from 10 to 14-16.
made 2 other changes which prob arent necessary, also reduced imc volts from 1.4 to 1.35 (slightly reduces temps), but stable either way.
tm5 1hr.


----------



## satinghostrider

VDD/VDDQ - 1.4V
MC - 1.4V
TX - Auto
SA - Auto

CPU: SP105 (P116 E83)
Memory Controller: SP79

TREFI : 130560

Installed a Ram cooler over the DIMMS and using Feng Zao contact frame.

Memtest86 in bios passed so far after 4 passes.

Gonna wait to watercool my DIMMS before pushing further on this A-Die.
But pretty pleased with the 6600 A-Die so far on my 2022 Z690 Apex. Just hate the fact the rams at 1.4V runs so much more hotter than my M-Die at 1.5V due to the lack of PMIC pads.


----------



## newls1

what is the go to waterblock for our ddr5? Guess this will be my next project.


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> what is the go to waterblock for our ddr5? Guess this will be my next project.


I'm using one Bitspower dimm cooler and one Supercool dimm cooler. Both works great


----------



## CptSpig

Nizzen said:


> I'm using one Bitspower dimm cooler and one Supercool dimm cooler. Both works great


Which one is better?


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> I'm using one Bitspower dimm cooler and one Supercool dimm cooler. Both works great


this work on my unify X? Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) . Also, can you recommend me a way to remove the stock heatspreaders off these gskills?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> this work on my unify X? Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) . Also, can you recommend me a way to remove the stock heatspreaders off these gskills?


hairdryer on high for 30-40 seconds just go back and forth along dimm, grab one edge of heatsink and pry up, requires little pressure but not much. Do same for other side. With hairdryer they come off clean and easy without leaving any residue.

If you brute force rip them off without using heat (dont do, but I did on 5600 kit just see see marking as planned on tossing anyway) both still came off without damaging ics but left residue. point is doing it proper way using heat to undue the adhesion unlikely to damage anything.


----------



## dante`afk

any pointers from you ram professionals to get this stable?

SA needs to stay there, if I go higher i get undetectable nvme errors or no windows found.
vdd/vddq kind of the same, if I go lower or higher no boot
i think there is some room on tx and mc improvement.

bsod when running the "write" bench in aida, raise twr?


----------



## newls1

dante`afk said:


> any pointers from you ram professionals to get this stable?
> 
> SA needs to stay there, if I go higher i get undetectable nvme errors or no windows found.
> vdd/vddq kind of the same, if I go lower or higher no boot
> i think there is some room on tx and mc improvement.
> 
> bsod when running the "write" bench in aida, raise twr?
> 
> View attachment 2584634


holy bejesus! 1.70+V .... Hope that lasts for you!


----------



## dante`afk

doesnt even boot with lower


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> hairdryer on high for 30-40 seconds just go back and forth along dimm, grab one edge of heatsink and pry up, requires little pressure but not much. Do same for other side. With hairdryer they come off clean and easy without leaving any residue.
> 
> If you brute force rip them off without using heat (dont do, but I did on 5600 kit just see see marking as planned on tossing anyway) both still came off without damaging ics but left residue. point is doing it proper way using heat to undue the adhesion unlikely to damage anything.


thank you sir, I was hoping you would tell me the heatgun method cause id feel really uncomfortable dropping the sticks in mineral spirits (or whatever liquid) to let them soak! Heatgun method it is


----------



## Agent-A01

dante`afk said:


> any pointers from you ram professionals to get this stable?
> 
> SA needs to stay there, if I go higher i get undetectable nvme errors or no windows found.
> vdd/vddq kind of the same, if I go lower or higher no boot
> i think there is some room on tx and mc improvement.
> 
> bsod when running the "write" bench in aida, raise twr?


You may need to raise TRRD_DG 4 > 6


----------



## CptSpig

dante`afk said:


> any pointers from you ram professionals to get this stable?
> 
> SA needs to stay there, if I go higher i get undetectable nvme errors or no windows found.
> vdd/vddq kind of the same, if I go lower or higher no boot
> i think there is some room on tx and mc improvement.
> 
> bsod when running the "write" bench in aida, raise twr?


Change CL and tRAS to 34. Change (tRCD WR) Auto. Change tWCL to Auto. Your voltages are to high for 8200. What bios are you running?


----------



## dante`afk

CptSpig said:


> Change CL and tRAS to 34. Change (tRCD WR) Auto. Change tWCL to Auto. Your voltages are to high for 8200. What bios are you running?


thanks, getting some success there. lowered vdd/vddq but bsod once it goes into windows with ntfs.sys error

new beta bios 0804 with teamgroup 7200


/edit, lowered vdd/vddq to 1.6, tx to 1.45

got into windows, bench went through, running karhu now


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> thank you sir, I was hoping you would tell me the heatgun method cause id feel really uncomfortable dropping the sticks in mineral spirits (or whatever liquid) to let them soak! Heatgun method it is


yeah, no way I would soak them in anything. I used my wifes 1600 watt hairdryer, if you use a heatgun probably need less heating time.


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> this work on my unify X? Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) . Also, can you recommend me a way to remove the stock heatspreaders off these gskills?


This I use 
Take off the "rgb top" 
Heat up a bit with hair dryer on ic side
Bend it out and use a paper knife against the heatspreader to cut off tape.


----------



## CptSpig

dante`afk said:


> thanks, getting some success there. lowered vdd/vddq but bsod once it goes into windows with ntfs.sys error
> 
> new beta bios 0804 with teamgroup 7200


Every error has its causes. The culprit for NTFS_File_SYSTEM (Ntfs.sys) is likely to be disk corruption, be it NTFS file system corruption or disk errors like bad sectors. Besides, corrupted hard drive drivers can also result in a failed Ntfs.sys.

And the SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (Ntfs.sys) may be induced by antivirus software that is conflicted with the system, corrupted or outdated driver, or problematic RAM sticks.

To Fix BSOD Caused by Ntfs.sys Failure you have to Specify the error message on your computer screen and carry out the corresponding fixes to remove the Ntfs.sys error.

**Error Code 1. NTFS_File_SYSTEM (Ntfs.sys)
Method 1. Fix Disk Corruptions
Method 2. Update Device Driver

**Error Code 2. SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (Ntfs.sys)
Method 1. Update Windows
Method 2. Run System File Checker Tools


----------



## Nizzen

dante`afk said:


> doesnt even boot with lower


Try vccsa=auto


----------



## dante`afk

me yesterday "i aint got time to fiddle around"

4 hours later, thanks guys 

recommended changes for 8400+?


----------



## CptSpig

dante`afk said:


> me yesterday "i aint got time to fiddle around"
> 
> 4 hours later, thanks guys
> 
> recommended changes for 8400+?
> 
> View attachment 2584642


More voltage.


----------



## rulik006

newls1 said:


> this work on my unify X? Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) . Also, can you recommend me a way to remove the stock heatspreaders off these gskills?


By whitespirit or hair dryer
105$ what a ripoff 3x overpriced



Spoiler



Barrowch DIMM Memory RAM Water Block + 2 Heatsink TFT Display Water Temperature


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> By whitespirit or hair dryer
> 105$ what a ripoff 3x overpriced
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Barrowch DIMM Memory RAM Water Block + 2 Heatsink TFT Display Water Temperature


US $74.99
2x heatsink + top

2x heatsink = US $24.99


----------



## Kjsoak

opt33 said:


> I would try as is first. I have lower binned kit 7200, so to run it I have to increase vdd/vddq to 1.44, then use colder temps (a/c) to prevent temp errors. As is, I err in 2 mins of tm5.
> 
> If not stable, first thing I would do is increase vdd/vddq from 1.40 to 1.42, but you may be stable as is.
> 
> To run it at normal ambient on my lower 7200 bin, I can make 4 changes and be stabe:
> 
> 1) Change 7600 36-44-44 to 7600 36-46-46 which allows slightly reduced vdd/vddq
> 2) reduce trefi to 35-55k, which allows less vdd/vddq (plus most latency improvements occur by 65K).
> 3) increase vdd/vddq from 1.40 to 1.42.
> 4) increase RTP from 10 to 14-16.
> made 2 other changes which prob arent necessary, also reduced imc volts from 1.4 to 1.35 (slightly reduces temps), but stable either way.
> tm5 1hr.
> 
> View attachment 2584618


thanks alot , it looks now promising, increased vdd/ vddq to 1.435 and increased the primaries as you said to 7600 36 46 46.
The Temperature shouldn't be a problem I already watercool them.
Tm5 runs now one hour without an Error.


----------



## z390e

what is the highest MC SP we have seen so far?


----------



## CptSpig

z390e said:


> what is the highest MC SP we have seen so far?


Thanh Nguyen says he has MC SP 88. He had a screen shoot of P-Cores 123 and E-Cores 94 but not the MC SP. I have P-Cores 121, E-Cores 88 and MC SP 79.


----------



## Nizzen

CptSpig said:


> Thanh Nguyen says he has MC SP 88. He had a screen shoot of P-Cores 123 and E-Cores 94 but not the MC SP. I have P-Cores 121, E-Cores 88 and MC SP 79.


I have 88 but one from ClocEMup has 91


----------



## chibi

newls1 said:


> this work on my unify X? Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided) . Also, can you recommend me a way to remove the stock heatspreaders off these gskills?


Yes, that's the 2-dimm kit for unify x / apex boards. Luumi has a video on this. His method is to dunk the dimms in a container of acetone (paint thinner) for 30 mins and they just fall off.


----------



## opt33

7800c36 karhu stable 2 hrs (7600c36 teamgroup kit that arrived 2hrs ago). 1.42v vdd/vddq, imc 1.35v, vddq tx 1.40v, sa 1.22.
This kit 200+mz better bin vs 7200 TG kit, as used 7600c36 stable profile of 7200kit (voltages/settings) and just changed freq to 7800. Will try 8000, but likely run into volt/temp issue.


----------



## dante`afk

CptSpig said:


> More voltage.


alright, with same timings as posted above; (kahru 1 hour stable at 8200)

for 8400:

tx 1.45 (anything lower or higher bsod)
mc 1.5 (anything higher or lower bsod)
tdd/tddq 1.6 (anything higher or lower bsod)
SA seems anything works here to boot, 1.13, 1.2, 1.4, 1.35

with these settings I can boot into windows, running aida bench first value shows 0 copy, then on second test bsod (bad pool header, ntfs, page fault in non page area)


----------



## CptSpig

Change tRAS to 34 raise voltage 2mv. Use memtest86 in bios to test 1 cycle.


----------



## gtz

rulik006 said:


> By whitespirit or hair dryer
> 105$ what a ripoff 3x overpriced
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Barrowch DIMM Memory RAM Water Block + 2 Heatsink TFT Display Water Temperature


Damn that is cheap!!!! 

I paid 65 for my alphacool RAM heatsinks and block and thought that was a deal.


----------



## sulalin

Some 13900k+z690 APEX+DDR5 ADIE tests


Spoiler: 13900K+Z690 APEX+DDR5 ADIE TEST


----------



## motivman

Z690 kingpin $449 at EVGA!!!!!



https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=121-AL-E699-KR


----------



## motivman

motivman said:


> Z690 kingpin $449 at EVGA!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=121-AL-E699-KR


I grabbed one, not sure if this an upgrade from my Z690 Unify-X. How much better will the Z790 Apex and Z790 Kingpin be better than the Z690 Kingpin?


----------



## bscool

motivman said:


> I grabbed one, not sure if this an upgrade from my Z690 Unify-X. How much better will the Z790 Apex and Z790 Kingpin be better than the Z690 Kingpin?


From people I know who have both z790 Apex is a big step up from z690 Kingpin.

z790 Kingpin is not released but from what I have seen it looks good and should be close to z790 Apex. But who knows when it will be released.

z690 Kingpin and z690 Unify X is a wash from what I have seen. Most can do 7600 with A die and more than that has issues with reboot stabliltiy.

I have a 2022 z690 Apex and was limited to 7400 to 7600 wth A die and on z790 Apex i am running 8000c36 y cruncher stable. Have not messed with it much just been running that.


----------



## motivman

bscool said:


> From people I know who have both z790 Apex is a big step up from z690 Kingpin.
> 
> z790 Kingpin is not released but from what I have seen it looks good and should be close to z790 Apex. But who knows when it will be released.
> 
> z690 Kingpin and z690 Unify X is a wash from what I have seen. Most can do 7600 with A die and more than that has issues with reboot stabliltiy.


Ouch, might have to cancel this order on the Z690 kingpin then... $449 was too good to pass up on. I got A die 7600 kit and it ran perfectly in XMP on my Z690 Unify-x, but will not overclock AT ALL or even boot 7800. Newegg had the Z790 Apex in stock for a few days, but I passed up on it because it is white... I can't do white MOBO, lol. why in the world did ASUS make the motherboard white??? SMH


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> hairdryer on high for 30-40 seconds just go back and forth along dimm, grab one edge of heatsink and pry up, requires little pressure but not much. Do same for other side. With hairdryer they come off clean and easy without leaving any residue.
> 
> If you brute force rip them off without using heat (dont do, but I did on 5600 kit just see see marking as planned on tossing anyway) both still came off without damaging ics but left residue. point is doing it proper way using heat to undue the adhesion unlikely to damage anything.


block is ordered and will be here next week. Heres to hoping i dont break my new sticks removing the heatspreader! 😥


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> block is ordered and will be here next week. Heres to hoping i dont break my new sticks removing the heatspreader! 😥


same here with hairdryer really easy. but there is residue left on back of the pcb that i clean off with isopropyl alcohol and my finger nail. if it's already a highly used kit before removal then residue is left on IC too which i used isopropyl alcohol to wipe it off.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sulalin said:


> Some 13900k+z690 APEX+DDR5 ADIE tests


Do you have better luck with 2203 then 0001 on a-die?
My board rocks with m-dies (7300c32), but a-dies are finicky at best 

Added a few screens


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> yeah, no way I would soak them in anything. I used my wifes 1600 watt hairdryer, if you use a heatgun probably need less heating time.


appreciate this and all your help. Do i need to remove any of that rgb crap first before i heatup heatspreader and remove it or all the RGB crap comes off with the heatspreader?


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> appreciate this and all your help. Do i need to remove any of that rgb crap first before i heatup heatspreader and remove it or all the RGB crap comes off with the heatspreader?


the rgb cover comes off as you pry the heatsink off.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I picked up 7600Mhz ram yesterday at microcenter. My motherboard is a limiting factor at this point no doubt. It'll run the same settings my m die does at 7000Mhz 1t but can't stabilize anything over that not even 2t. Won't even boot xmp 7600Mhz. With this m die I could hit 6800Mhz 1t on my apex and on my dark kingpin I get 7000Mhz 1t. This is why at this point I know it's the motherboard for sure. There's no other explanation.
> 
> I wonder if we'll get a bios update that'll allow me to push further or if it's just at it's limit period.


I take the comment above back. I managed to get 7400 stable so far. Still tweaking timings right now tightening things up as much as possible. There must have been something left in the bios from the other memory kit, I guess.. This memory is beating the latencies of my m die kit now.


----------



## newls1

Just wondering about this... The temp that hwinfo64 reports for my mem @ 7712MHz @ 1.425v is around the 35c while gaming/stress testing.. So why are people recommending watercooling ram when these temps seem very good? Is the temp reporting NOT THE ACTUAL temp? in otherwords is it only reading the PMIC temp and not the actual ram module temps? I have a waterblock on the way but was just thinking about this.


----------



## mechatron_prime

I was surprised to find A-Die in my Free G.Skill 6000 kit that was bundled with my 7700x. The free memory kits that Micro Center was giving away when purchasing a new ryzen 7000 series processor were a mix of Samsung ICs, Hynix ICs (usually M-die).


----------



## Nizzen

CptSpig said:


> Which one is better?


Supercool has delta water of 1-2c, so that's the best. It has waterflow over the IC's 
Bitspower is pretty good to. A few C higher delta. Aka good enough


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> Just wondering about this... The temp that hwinfo64 reports for my mem @ 7712MHz @ 1.425v is around the 35c while gaming/stress testing.. So why are people recommending watercooling ram when these temps seem very good? Is the temp reporting NOT THE ACTUAL temp? in otherwords is it only reading the PMIC temp and not the actual ram module temps? I have a waterblock on the way but was just thinking about this.


35c is almost impossible with direct fan in a case, if the ambient isn't very cold. Ambient of 25c and 40-45c is the lowest I have seen with stock heatspreaders. Dimms are colder naked and with direct fan. 

We are running 1.65v with watercooling LOL


----------



## newls1

supercool is completely unpurchaseable! even if they were in stock, id never order from that "place" again. took a month to get my waterblock, and that was LUCKY! some people reporting months and months waiting and no response from them as to why.


----------



## Nizzen

gtz said:


> Damn that is cheap!!!!
> 
> I paid 65 for my alphacool RAM heatsinks and block and thought that was a deal.


The price was for heatspreaders only, without block.


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> supercool is completely unpurchaseable! even if they were in stock, id never order from that "place" again. took a month to get my waterblock, and that was LUCKY! some people reporting months and months waiting and no response from them as to why.


I think that Supercool has sold WAY to many units for a VERY small company. One man company in Thailand or something.
Pretty crazy that the best water cooling solution to Cpu's and dimms are made by one guy in Thailand 

Even the delid tool for Intel and AMD is first to the marked, even it's limited supply. I feel bad about him or they. Hope they/him sorting things out. We all want the great Supercool stuff


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> I think that Supercool has sold WAY to many units for a VERY small company. One man company in Thailand or something.
> Pretty crazy that the best water cooling solution to Cpu's and dimms are made by one guy in Thailand
> 
> Even the delid tool for Intel and AMD is first to the marked, even it's limited supply. I feel bad about him or they. Hope they/him sorting things out. We all want the great Supercool stuff


i feel like my supercool direct die block isnt making the best contact with the 13900 Die, as temps on the 12900 were better, but then again, im running way more wattage this time around. Ive remounted it several times with same results so ive learned to just accept it.


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> i feel like my supercool direct die block isnt making the best contact with the 13900 Die, as temps on the 12900 were better, but then again, im running way more wattage this time around. Ive remounted it several times with same results so ive learned to just accept it.


the SC direct die block inlet is the bottom port. just incase didn't know?
its the port furthest away from edge.
i don't remember which direction the cooling plate should be. i just kept it same as stock.


----------



## Carillo

Got the G.skill 6400 c32 kit today , and as you can see it’s 100% A-die 235 batch. Just started testing them, and so far i think it looks very promising for a 200 dollar G.skill kit. Will post my final results , but currently testing 8200 c34 very tight subs , 1.58 VDD and 1,57 VDDQ on z790 Apex using 0803 bios 👍☺


----------



## Carillo

newls1 said:


> i feel like my supercool direct die block isnt making the best contact with the 13900 Die, as temps on the 12900 were better, but then again, im running way more wattage this time around. Ive remounted it several times with same results so ive learned to just accept it.


That is 100% true. I’m currently using the same DC12 for my 13900K, and there is definitely not good enough contact. The die must be lower on 13900k then 12900k because the temps is not close to what I’m seeing on DC13


----------



## bhav

G skill 6400s still close to £300 in the UK yucky price.


----------



## z390e

wow @sulalin 1.518 vcore is insane, what are you using to cool that?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Just wondering about this... The temp that hwinfo64 reports for my mem @ 7712MHz @ 1.425v is around the 35c while gaming/stress testing.. So why are people recommending watercooling ram when these temps seem very good? Is the temp reporting NOT THE ACTUAL temp? in otherwords is it only reading the PMIC temp and not the actual ram module temps? I have a waterblock on the way but was just thinking about this.


yes, spd sensor just reading pmic temp, not temp of IC. Igor labs showed gradient of 17C from non-cooled spd sensor to external IC hotspot of 17C at 1.35v. internal IC hot spot junctional temps may be 5-10C higher.

-add ? 22+C to spd pmic temps for IC junctional temps if pmic not cooled so mimics substrate temps
-add ? 27+C to spd pmic temps for IC junctional temps if pmic is cooled so reads lower than substrate temps
-higher voltage, need to add more to spd temp to approximate IC internal junctional temps.
-approximations require tm5, etc run long enough for IC temps to heat substrate/pmic to semi-steady state.

see pic:


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> yes, spd sensor just reading pmic temp, not temp of IC. Igor labs showed gradient of 17C from non-cooled spd sensor to external IC hotspot of 17C at 1.35v. internal IC hot spot junctional temps may be 5-10C higher.
> 
> -add ? 22+C to spd pmic temps for IC junctional temps if pmic not cooled so mimics substrate temps
> -add ? 27+C to spd pmic temps for IC junctional temps if pmic is cooled so reads lower than substrate temps
> -higher voltage, need to add more to spd temp to approximate IC internal junctional temps.
> -approximations require tm5, etc run long enough for IC temps to heat substrate/pmic to semi-steady state.
> 
> see pic:
> View attachment 2584777


this exactly what i thought. THANK YOU. Glad i decided to go watercooling now and not just wasted 100$ Also while im taking these heatspreaders off, can i perma disable this rgb crap too?


----------



## grilli4nt

I mean what can I say. I spent probably a week trying to get my 6400 a die kit to be stable on 7000 or 7200 on the z790 strix-f, nothing worked. Upgrading to hero, after I had it, and tried to get 7600 stable, nothing worked. Now I pulled the plug and bought the apex. 8000c36 rock stable without even having to spend that much time to tweak voltages.
Same 13900k, same g.skill 6400 a-die kit. IMC on my 13900k is 69, so fairly "poor" compared to others I've seen here. I have had some attempts on 8400 but actually I dont think its the IMC limiting me, I think I need a higher binned kit given I am on air, as moving the voltages up closer to 1.6, get over 50c and fails, but surely will continue trying here for a bit longer. This mobo is just so fun to work with. Happy I pulled the plug. And by the way, this bios is killing it? Timings on auto and it sets trfc and trefi to decent values ootb and it works? Damn. I'm quite blown away tbh. The whole karhu run is captured in hwinfo, max temp 45.8c.


----------



## satinghostrider

grilli4nt said:


> I mean what can I say. I spent probably a week trying to get my 6400 a die kit to be stable on 7000 or 7200 on the z790 strix-f, nothing worked. Upgrading to hero, after I had it, and tried to get 7600 stable, nothing worked. Now I pulled the plug and bought the apex. 8000c36 rock stable without even having to spend that much time to tweak voltages.
> Same 13900k, same g.skill 6400 a-die kit. IMC on my 13900k is 69, so fairly "poor" compared to others I've seen here. I have had some attempts on 8400 but actually I dont think its the IMC limiting me, I think I need a higher binned kit given I am on air, as moving the voltages up closer to 1.6, get over 50c and fails, but surely will continue trying here for a bit longer. This mobo is just so fun to work with. Happy I pulled the plug. And by the way, this bios is killing it? Timings on auto and it sets trfc and trefi to decent values ootb and it works? Damn. I'm quite blown away tbh. The whole karhu run is captured in hwinfo, max temp 45.8c.
> 
> View attachment 2584779


Nice! What are your voltages? Do you mind sharing your memtweakit timings?


----------



## rs199208

grilli4nt said:


> I mean what can I say. I spent probably a week trying to get my 6400 a die kit to be stable on 7000 or 7200 on the z790 strix-f, nothing worked. Upgrading to hero, after I had it, and tried to get 7600 stable, nothing worked. Now I pulled the plug and bought the apex. 8000c36 rock stable without even having to spend that much time to tweak voltages.
> Same 13900k, same g.skill 6400 a-die kit. IMC on my 13900k is 69, so fairly "poor" compared to others I've seen here. I have had some attempts on 8400 but actually I dont think its the IMC limiting me, I think I need a higher binned kit given I am on air, as moving the voltages up closer to 1.6, get over 50c and fails, but surely will continue trying here for a bit longer. This mobo is just so fun to work with. Happy I pulled the plug. And by the way, this bios is killing it? Timings on auto and it sets trfc and trefi to decent values ootb and it works? Damn. I'm quite blown away tbh. The whole karhu run is captured in hwinfo, max temp 45.8c.
> 
> View attachment 2584779


making me get itchy fingers to click buy...
this is what i want to hear exactly as you described.


----------



## SoldierRBT

13900KF SP103 110/91 (71 MC) 5.5/4.3/4.5 1.18 LLC7
8000 34-46-46 EK Monarch heatsink on air max temp 40C
1.52 VDD/VDDQ 1.125v SA 1.325v IVR 1.425v MC


----------



## opt33

grilli4nt said:


> I mean what can I say. I spent probably a week trying to get my 6400 a die kit to be stable on 7000 or 7200 on the z790 strix-f, nothing worked. Upgrading to hero, after I had it, and tried to get 7600 stable, nothing worked. Now I pulled the plug and bought the apex. 8000c36 rock stable without even having to spend that much time to tweak voltages.
> Same 13900k, same g.skill 6400 a-die kit. IMC on my 13900k is 69, so fairly "poor" compared to others I've seen here. I have had some attempts on 8400 but actually I dont think its the IMC limiting me, I think I need a higher binned kit given I am on air, as moving the voltages up closer to 1.6, get over 50c and fails, but surely will continue trying here for a bit longer. This mobo is just so fun to work with. Happy I pulled the plug. And by the way, this bios is killing it? Timings on auto and it sets trfc and trefi to decent values ootb and it works? Damn. I'm quite blown away tbh. The whole karhu run is captured in hwinfo, max temp 45.8c.


yeah, for 8000+ a good 2 dimm board like apex 790 looks like the way to go. My hero/cpu boot max is 8000 but very unstable, imc 66. Have good dram kit though and 7600c36 stable for both gaming/karhu, 7800c36 stable karhu (only gamed 2 hrs so jury still out).

If kits start coming out with 8400+ long before next cpu upgrade, wife may get a new desktop computer with hero (even though she spends most time on her laptop). I like the hero, but will be my last 4 dimm mobo, in future will stick with asus apex or msi 2 dimms mobo, more run with ram.


----------



## Nelfhunt

nvm


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> this exactly what i thought. THANK YOU. Glad i decided to go watercooling now and not just wasted 100$ Also while im taking these heatspreaders off, can i perma disable this rgb crap too?


you wont be putting rgp cap back on with new watercooled heatsink, in my pic last post, once you remove both sides of heatspreader, rgp cap should just slide off.

And spd temps work fine for monitoring temps once several minutes of testing has passed and equilibrium reached with junctional temps...,ie, if spd temps of 55C cause errors (which is actually 78C junctional temps) can just use spd temps and keep under 55C. The problem is in first seconds/minute of running test with higher volts, when junctional temps may be 78C causing errors, but spd temps still reading very low (as heat from IC's hasnt had time to heat substrate/spd)

edit: actually taking rgp cap off doesnt resolve rgp problem, they are still lit on subtrate.


----------



## Chintz

Second time (first on 0703 bios) that i have a 7600 + subs Karhu setting on my Strix-E, but after a reboot i guess it gets trained different and Warzone 2 crashes after a while. This reboot instability really suxx :-/

I have a similar 7200 + subs setting which runs fine also after reboots. Not really sure how to make the 7600 reboot / game stable?! Maybe i'll just forget the 7600 rockstable on Strix :>


----------



## sblantipodi

what is an average MC SP for 13900K?










is 76 any good?


----------



## opt33

Chintz said:


> Second time (first on 0703 bios) that i have a 7600 + subs Karhu setting on my Strix-E, but after a reboot i guess it gets trained different and Warzone 2 crashes after a while. This reboot instability really suxx :-/
> 
> I have a similar 7200 + subs setting which runs fine also after reboots. Not really sure how to make the 7600 reboot / game stable?! Maybe i'll just forget the 7600 rockstable on Strix :>


you can try increasing cpu vddq tx to 1.43 (from 1.40) might solve gaming reboot issue (unless its just mobo). 

cpu vddq tx autos on mine to 1.43, gamed/tested with it stable. Then walked vddq tx down to 1.40 like yours and was kahru stable (even lower stable). So used 1.40 cpu vddq tx and 1.36imc gaming and crashed in 30 minutes. So back to auto value of 1.43cpu vddq/1.38 imc, then gamed many hours and zero issues. 

memory tests dont adequately test cpu imc/vddq, so left for gaming.


----------



## Nizzen

Chintz said:


> Second time (first on 0703 bios) that i have a 7600 + subs Karhu setting on my Strix-E, but after a reboot i guess it gets trained different and Warzone 2 crashes after a while. This reboot instability really suxx :-/
> 
> I have a similar 7200 + subs setting which runs fine also after reboots. Not really sure how to make the 7600 reboot / game stable?! Maybe i'll just forget the 7600 rockstable on Strix :>
> 
> View attachment 2584821


Higher VccSA tend to help  Try 1.15-1.2v to see if the boot "issue" going away.


----------



## BenchAndGames

Is this a real temperature read or is just a bug ? Cuz I had this RAM on different board, MSI Torpedo and did the same behaviour, sometimes the SPD1 is reading to much temp for a sec, because judging by the latest value that is avarage they both very similars. So its not like it was on 63C for seconds.
Same apply for the minimum, that show it was on 16C when the SPD2 on 32C.

So this happaned on 2 different boards, z690 torpedo and rog z790-f


----------



## Chintz

opt33 said:


> you can try increasing cpu vddq tx to 1.43





Nizzen said:


> Higher VccSA tend to help  Try 1.15-1.2v


Well i did both, SA to 1.15v and so far this actually might do the trick. Just played an hour WZ2 without game crash.
After the bios changes i also did a random reboot, lets see during the next days, but this is definately the right direction, thx


----------



## opt33

BenchAndGames said:


> View attachment 2584848
> 
> 
> Is this a real temperature read or is just a bug ? Cuz I had this RAM on different board, MSI Torpedo and did the same behaviour, sometimes the SPD1 is reading to much temp for a sec, because judging by the latest value that is avarage they both very similars. So its not like it was on 63C for seconds.
> Same apply for the minimum, that show it was on 16C when the SPD2 on 32C.
> 
> So this happened on 2 different boards, z690 torpedo and rog z790-f


16c, 32c, 48c, 64c (63.8 in your case) all bugged readings from spd "busy" when polled, will only see 16c/64c bugs unless watch carefully, since 16/64c temps fall outside normal temps hence saved as min/max. if you run cpuz while hwinfo is running so more programs accessing spd, hwinfo can bug worse and stop polling or read 0C temps. (If you want to run cpuz always run it before hwinfo, then dont touch while hwinfo running. But hwinfo can bug out with 16/32/48/64c all by itself. "Current" temps pretty much stay around "max" once running constant tm5/memtest/karhu for awhile, so any "max" temp more than 1-2C above current temp is likely bugged. Also hwinfo only seems buggy with some pmic/kits and not others, may be fixed with future hwino updates.


----------



## BenchAndGames

opt33 said:


> 16c, 32c, 48c, 64c (63.8 in your case) all bugged readings from spd "busy" when polled, will only see 16c/64c bugs unless watch carefully, since 16/64c temps fall outside normal temps hence saved as min/max. if you run cpuz while hwinfo is running so more programs accessing spd, hwinfo can bug worse and stop polling or read 0C temps. (If you want to run cpuz always run it before hwinfo, then dont touch while hwinfo running. But hwinfo can bug out with 16/32/48/64c all by itself. "Current" temps pretty much stay around "max" once running constant tm5/memtest/karhu for awhile, so any "max" temp more than 1-2C above current temp is likely bugged. Also hwinfo only seems buggy with some pmic/kits and not others, may be fixed with future hwino updates.


It can be the case yea cuz I have the old screenshot with the torpedo MB and it shows 47.8C on SPD1 and 30C SPD2 so it is what you said most likely. ok thank you for the clarification

PS: And yes, I have HWinfo auto starting with windows and after I start CPUz so...you are right


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Xavier233 said:


> The 12900K is SP90, and am only trying 6000 which is the rated DDR5 speed for the kit. Nothing more, nothing less. Different reboots have different minds. Sometimes it runs y-cruncher + TM5 no issues, other times after reboots it throws errors. Also, any changes to the BIOS (even if not related to memory) causes errors on mem tests. Asus support is the worst part: nothing in stock for cross-RMA.


Whats your memory's VDD/VDDQ set to?

Also, your 12900K having an SP score of 90 only gives you insight on the quality of the cores, not the IMC. You could have a great SP score and still have a crippled IMC

I also found settimg system agent voltage to 1.20 helped out a lot with overall system stability


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

opt33 said:


> 16c, 32c, 48c, 64c (63.8 in your case) all bugged readings from spd "busy" when polled, will only see 16c/64c bugs unless watch carefully, since 16/64c temps fall outside normal temps hence saved as min/max. if you run cpuz while hwinfo is running so more programs accessing spd, hwinfo can bug worse and stop polling or read 0C temps. (If you want to run cpuz always run it before hwinfo, then dont touch while hwinfo running. But hwinfo can bug out with 16/32/48/64c all by itself. "Current" temps pretty much stay around "max" once running constant tm5/memtest/karhu for awhile, so any "max" temp more than 1-2C above current temp is likely bugged. Also hwinfo only seems buggy with some pmic/kits and not others, may be fixed with future hwino updates.


Wow, thank you for sharing. I will game for a few minutes, and then check the max SPD temp and it would show 63.8, which is insanely hot for SPD temps, especially after only a minute of two of gaming. Glad to know the SPD isnt actually hitting 63.8 and its just a bug. Also glad to know im not the only one having this bug!


----------



## Lune

Sorry for the invasion but what FPS do you guys get on 1080p all low in COD 2022? Curious to see the difference between DDR4 CL 14 and 8000 CL 34 as time has passed since the initial launch of DDR5. If someone could do a benchmark I'd appreciate it.

Picture from today (DDR4), the benchmark received an FPS nerf to the GPU - was 468 before so if you have old screenshots you gotta retest it due to the patch.


----------



## xrb936

Hey guys, is there any list for Hynix A-die? From MSI's website, it looks like one of the T-Force 5600 sets is A-die, can anyone confrim it?


----------



## Nizzen

Lune said:


> Sorry for the invasion but what FPS do you guys get on 1080p all low in COD 2022? Curious to see the difference between DDR4 CL 14 and 8000 CL 34 as time has passed since the initial launch of DDR5. If someone could do a benchmark I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Picture from today (DDR4), the benchmark received an FPS nerf to the GPU - was 468 before so if you have old screenshots you gotta retest it due to the patch.
> 
> View attachment 2584880


Send me key, and I'll test. Or is it free?


----------



## Nizzen

xrb936 said:


> Hey guys, is there any list for Hynix A-die? From MSI's website, it looks like one of the T-Force 5600 sets is A-die, can anyone confrim it?


New g.skill 6400 to 8000 is a-die
New Team 7000 to 7600 is a-die
I have a few months old T-force delta 5600c32 1.2v and it's m-die.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Lune said:


> Sorry for the invasion but what FPS do you guys get on 1080p all low in COD 2022? Curious to see the difference between DDR4 CL 14 and 8000 CL 34 as time has passed since the initial launch of DDR5. If someone could do a benchmark I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Picture from today (DDR4), the benchmark received an FPS nerf to the GPU - was 468 before so if you have old screenshots you gotta retest it due to the patch.
> 
> View attachment 2584880


you should update your nvidia driver

i dont have 8000mhz DDR5, but i do have 7200mhz DDR5. I can test in a little bit. I've also got a 13900K and a ROG Strix 4090


----------



## xrb936

Nizzen said:


> New g.skill 6400 to 8000 is a-die
> New Team 7000 to 7600 is a-die
> I have a few months old T-force delta 5600c32 1.2v and it's m-die.


Thank you so much. Just bought 2 sets of G.Skill 6800.


----------



## Lune

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> you should update your nvidia driver
> 
> i dont have 8000mhz DDR5, but i do have 7200mhz DDR5. I can test in a little bit. I've also got a 13900K and a ROG Strix 4090


This game is a mess with the drivers, many people use drivers that are 5 (or more) versions older for better performance and no stuttering. Use whichever works for you. The latest driver gives me like 10 less FPS and doesn't fix the stuttering but this one does.



Nizzen said:


> Send me key, and I'll test. Or is it free?


The benchmark isn't free sadly but I'm sure someone someone with 8000 or so RAM from here plays the game


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Lune said:


> This game is a mess with the drivers, many people use drivers that are 5 (or more) versions older for better performance and no stuttering. Use whichever works for you. The latest driver gives me like 10 less FPS and doesn't fix the stuttering but this one does.
> 
> 
> 
> The benchmark isn't free sadly but I'm sure someone someone with 8000 or so RAM from here plays the game


Gotcha, weird how the driver performance is different for everybody. For me 526.47 was absolutely horrendous. Consistent and extremely notoceable stutter every ~5 seconds, with the occasional full screen flash of white noise. 526.98 has been much much better for me


----------



## Lune

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Gotcha, weird how the driver performance is different for everybody. For me 526.47 was absolutely horrendous. Consistent and extremely notoceable stutter every ~5 seconds, with the occasional full screen flash of white noise. 526.98 has been much much better for me


Yeah this game is wild. Playing around with the Spot Cache as well, it helped setting it to ultra. Curious what FPS you get with that 7200 CL32 on the benchmark. Is there a big difference between 7200 CL 32 and 8000 CL 34(?) or whatever it is that people use as max.


----------



## energie80




----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> View attachment 2584913


Hardware?


----------



## centvalny

Gskill 7600 tests air

8000 @ xmp sets 1.4v









8800


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing Z790 Hero ram oc to 7800 cl34.
The original poster didn't give detail other than vdd 1.60v.
Anyway, here it is for someone who needs info for Z790 Hero OC.


----------



## Chintz

@sugi0lover Does setting tRCD WR to Auto help stability? I guess it is set to Auto in the screen? Before last bios this option wasnt even there for me, was this discussed here already? Didnt see it


----------



## mattxx88

Chintz said:


> @sugi0lover Does setting tRCD WR to Auto help stability? I guess it is set to Auto in the screen? Before last bios option wasnt even there, was this discussed here already? Didnt see it


it's a bug of the las memtweakit, it should be 44 like the others
i got random read on that value too


----------



## sugi0lover

Chintz said:


> @sugi0lover Does setting tRCD WR to Auto help stability? I guess it is set to Auto in the screen? Before last bios this option wasnt even there for me, was this discussed here already? Di





Chintz said:


> @sugi0lover Does setting tRCD WR to Auto help stability? I guess it is set to Auto in the screen? Before last bios this option wasnt even there for me, was this discussed here already? Didnt see it


Here is good explanation about tRCD WR.








Z790 new bios feature | bianbao.dev







bianbao.dev


----------



## energie80

Nizzen said:


> Hardware?


13900k 5.8 teams 7800 and 6950xt


----------



## energie80

centvalny said:


> Gskill 7600 tests air
> 
> 8000
> View attachment 2584917
> 
> 
> 8800
> View attachment 2584918


8000 results dont look impressive?
same stats as my 7600 tightened?


----------



## rs199208

Carillo said:


> That is 100% true. I’m currently using the same DC12 for my 13900K, and there is definitely not good enough contact. The die must be lower on 13900k then 12900k because the temps is not close to what I’m seeing on DC13





newls1 said:


> i feel like my supercool direct die block isnt making the best contact with the 13900 Die, as temps on the 12900 were better, but then again, im running way more wattage this time around. Ive remounted it several times with same results so ive learned to just accept it.


do you think the der8auer frame would help with the direct die block on 13th gen? I've never used the frames but the washers did help before i went DD, so i removed the washers thinking it wasn't needed anymore.


----------



## TraumatikOC

energie80 said:


> 8000 results dont look impressive?
> same stats as my 7600 tightened?


I did a double take at that 8000 also. It is basically same as my gskill 7200 at 7600 with asus hynix 7600 profile in bios.


----------



## grilli4nt

My 6400 binned g.skill does 8000c36 on air no problem with 1.47/1.44v. What is the likelyhood of me getting same or higher speeds with lets say a 7200 binned kit? Surely there must be some difference when paying upwards of 200-300 usd more for a higher binned kit? Some sales going on today so I'm tempted trying.


----------



## centvalny

energie80 said:


> 8000 results dont look impressive?
> same stats as my 7600 tightened?


Testing xmp settings @ 8k 1.4v and cpu on autos.
It will do 8k with really tight timings though.


----------



## warbucks

centvalny said:


> Testing xmp settings @ 8k 1.4v and cpu on autos.
> It will do 8k with really tight timings though.


Got a pic of the tight timings at 8k?


----------



## opt33

grilli4nt said:


> My 6400 binned g.skill does 8000c36 on air no problem with 1.47/1.44v. What is the likelyhood of me getting same or higher speeds with lets say a 7200 binned kit? Surely there must be some difference when paying upwards of 200-300 usd more for a higher binned kit? Some sales going on today so I'm tempted trying.


To run with tightened settings:
My 7200 TG kit: 
1.42 vdd/vddq for 7600c36, 
1.46 vdd/vddq for 7800c36 (with ducted a/c air to prevent temp errors), 
1.5+ for 8000c36 (ducted a/c still errs, not sure mobo will run 8000 stable)

My 7600 TG kit: 
1.38 Vdd/vddq for 7600c36, 
1.42vdd/vddq for 7800c36, 
1.46 vdd/vddq for 7800c34 and 8000c36 plus outside air (10C) ran tm5 about 7 mins each as test, no longer.

your current 6400 kit could have made 7200 bin (better than my 7200 kit and close to my 7600 kit), though some of that may be your apex needing lower volts.

if you buy 7200, you may get better or worse bin (probably worse as better kits likely going in higher bins now). 
If you buy 7600, probably at least same or better bin. 
8000 kit (once available) given the guardband it comes with, should be better.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Making progress on 8200C34. IMC seems happy with these voltages. 
8200 34-47-47 1.59v VDD/VDDQ 1.20v SA 1.375v TX 1.475v MC
Stock CPU 1.11v underload.


----------



## grilli4nt

opt33 said:


> To run with tightened settings:
> My 7200 TG kit:
> 1.42 vdd/vddq for 7600c36,
> 1.46 vdd/vddq for 7800c36 (with ducted a/c air to prevent temp errors),
> 1.5+ for 8000c36 (ducted a/c still errs, not sure mobo will run 8000 stable)
> 
> My 7600 TG kit:
> 1.38 Vdd/vddq for 7600c36,
> 1.42vdd/vddq for 7800c36,
> 1.46 vdd/vddq for 7800c34 and 8000c36 plus outside air (10C) ran tm5 about 7 mins each as test, no longer.
> 
> your current 6400 kit could have made 7200 bin (better than my 7200 kit and close to my 7600 kit), though some of that may be your apex needing lower volts.
> 
> if you buy 7200, you may get better or worse bin (probably worse as better kits likely going in higher bins now).
> If you buy 7600, probably at least same or better bin.
> 8000 kit (once available) given the guardband it comes with, should be better.


Thanks for clarifying. They are starting to sell 8000 kits here now, only one store that sells, retails for more than double what I paid for my 6400 kit. Also with cl38, at 1.45v. What do we believe this can do?


----------



## opt33

grilli4nt said:


> Thanks for clarifying. They are starting to sell 8000 kits here now, only one store that sells, retails for more than double what I paid for my 6400 kit. Also with cl38, at 1.45v. What do we believe this can do?


only one way to find out....but your kit can already do that, so who knows.


----------



## grilli4nt

satinghostrider said:


> Nice! What are your voltages? Do you mind sharing your memtweakit timings?


Hey, thanks. All voltages are in the picture. I don't have memtweakit. What timings are you missing?

Edit: I saw the picture might not be accurate under load etc, here we go. vdd/vddq/tx/imc/sa/vpp/cpu input 1.47/1.44/1.4/1.4/1.25/auto/auto


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> Also while im taking these heatspreaders off, can i perma disable this rgb crap too?


just removed other side of heatsink on my vcolors and cap just falls off, the RGP lights however are on the substrate, the cap is just plastic covering. So have to use software to disable. And the heat coming off the lights is impressive, put my fluke probe tip on rgp light, lights were 5C hotter then substrate temp away from them, when computer just idling.

nothing like using low thermal conductance adhesive tape for ddr5 heatsink then adding 16 miniature heaters to substrate, no wonder dram volts above 1.45 causing temp issues with stock heatsinks.


----------



## Carillo

grilli4nt said:


> Thanks for clarifying. They are starting to sell 8000 kits here now, only one store that sells, retails for more than double what I paid for my 6400 kit. Also with cl38, at 1.45v. What do we believe this can do?
> 
> View attachment 2584964


This kit will of course be top bin, but is it worth it ....Depends on your goal. I have ordered one kit for testing, ETA 5 December


----------



## Nelfhunt

Guys what exactly does tCKE timing? I was used to always manually set it to 6 or 4, but I can´t pass Y-cruncher VST test with it. Auto set it to 26 and it passes... What does tCKE affect?


----------



## chibi

Seems like a few of us from this thread picked up the PPC's Bitspower DDR5 block. I checked earlier this week and there was plenty 5+ and now there's one left.


----------



## themad

Hi,
Looking for a 7600 or 7800 16x2 kit for my z790 Apex. From what I've seen, Gskill and Teamgroup are the best (maybe only?) options. Any thoughts on one versus the other? Will be aircooled.

Also, where to find 7800 kits in online shops in Europe? Seems like Proshop is the one to go?


----------



## centvalny

themad said:


> Also, where to find 7800 kits in online shops in Europe? Seems like Proshop is the one to go?











[Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7800MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory


【Compatibility】 Validated on an Intel® Core™ i7-13700K processor and ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX motherboard 【Free RGB dummies with your purchase!】 With the purchase of a 7200MHz or 7800MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** -...




v-color.net


----------



## themad

centvalny said:


> [Manta] DDR5 | 32GB (Dual) 7800MHz | XPrism RGB U-DIMM | Extreme OC Memory
> 
> 
> 【Compatibility】 Validated on an Intel® Core™ i7-13700K processor and ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX motherboard 【Free RGB dummies with your purchase!】 With the purchase of a 7200MHz or 7800MHz kit Get 1x M.2 PCIe RGB Dummy + 1x DDR5 RGB Dummy kit for FREE!! **IMPORTANT ABOUT DDR5 RGB DUMMY KIT** -...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v-color.net


Seems interesting and cheaper, despite being ugly. 
I have not seen this brand in the QVL though and quite rare in this forum as well. Any reviews out there?


----------



## rs199208

chibi said:


> Seems like a few of us from this thread picked up the PPC's Bitspower DDR5 block. I checked earlier this week and there was plenty 5+ and now there's one left.


i stripped out some of the screws already lol! luckily they were tight when it happened so ill just buy another block when i want to use on another kit. i used theses screws on 2 kits already.


----------



## Blaauurgh

opt33 said:


> To run with tightened settings:
> My 7200 TG kit:
> 1.42 vdd/vddq for 7600c36,
> 1.46 vdd/vddq for 7800c36 (with ducted a/c air to prevent temp errors),
> 1.5+ for 8000c36 (ducted a/c still errs, not sure mobo will run 8000 stable)
> 
> My 7600 TG kit:
> 1.38 Vdd/vddq for 7600c36,
> 1.42vdd/vddq for 7800c36,
> 1.46 vdd/vddq for 7800c34 and 8000c36 plus outside air (10C) ran tm5 about 7 mins each as test, no longer.
> 
> your current 6400 kit could have made 7200 bin (better than my 7200 kit and close to my 7600 kit), though some of that may be your apex needing lower volts.
> 
> if you buy 7200, you may get better or worse bin (probably worse as better kits likely going in higher bins now).
> If you buy 7600, probably at least same or better bin.
> 8000 kit (once available) given the guardband it comes with, should be better.


Can you share your TG 7600 timings? Just curious


----------



## Carillo

themad said:


> Hi,
> Looking for a 7600 or 7800 16x2 kit for my z790 Apex. From what I've seen, Gskill and Teamgroup are the best (maybe only?) options. Any thoughts on one versus the other? Will be aircooled.
> 
> Also, where to find 7800 kits in online shops in Europe? Seems like Proshop is the one to go?


buy the cheapest A-die kit you can find. They will all do 7800 on Apex


----------



## themad

Carillo said:


> if your MB is up for the task , buy the chrapest A-die kit you can find. They will all do 7800


Thanks. That is good to read, especially now that I see it'll be hard for me to get anything from Proshop anyways due to billing address not being from the EU, Switzerland or a few other places.


----------



## zachy79

I have question. 

I have G.Skill 6800MHz rams - F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK
and on board Z790 Hero im trying to run them at 7600MHz (i hope i7 13700K IMC can handle it same as this kit).
I have set profile in bios for SK Hynix 7600MHz 1.4V + configured vcsa at 1.225 for now.



During TM5 tests im getting errors 0 and 1 and sometimes 2


and from TM5 error list it says:

Error 0 refresh stable error = voltage cutoff choke

Error 1=Simple Test 16mb ~ can be voltage related, can be tRFC issues, tiny timeout issues for example tRRD_L looks like a bit awkward

Error 2, 12 is a timeout issue, somewhere something ends too quickly or you lack voltage and cells are not recharged in time a sync issue with other words which's first culprit is voltage somewhere or resistance somewhere

can someone familiar with z790 chipset/boards point me what settings should i work on and what range i should try to set for them in relation to these errors?

Maybe i should try better luck with same g.skill model but 7200MHz if i want to hit 7600MHz? (they cost almost the same currently for me).


----------



## centvalny

themad said:


> Thanks. That is good to read, especially now that I see it'll be hard for me to get anything from Proshop anyways due to billing address not being from the EU, Switzerland or a few other places.


That v-color 7800 will ship anywhere with fedex/dhl direct from Taiwan


----------



## opt33

Blaauurgh said:


> Can you share your TG 7600 timings? Just curious


I use exact same settings for 7600c36 (except 1.38 vdd/vddq) that I use for 7800c36 (1.42 vdd/vddq) below. (with 7600 kit).


----------



## opt33

zachy79 said:


> I have question.
> 
> I have G.Skill 6800MHz rams - F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK
> and on board Z790 Hero im trying to run them at 7600MHz (i hope i7 13700K IMC can handle it same as this kit).
> I have set profile in bios for SK Hynix 7600MHz 1.4V + configured vcsa at 1.225 for now.
> 
> can someone familiar with z790 chipset/boards point me what settings should i work on and what range i should try to set for them in relation to these errors?
> 
> Maybe i should try better luck with same g.skill model but 7200MHz if i want to hit 7600MHz? (they cost almost the same currently for me).


The best chance of getting that profile to work on air is with 7600 bin kits (or a kit that could have made that bin). 
can try my somewhat backed off settings in post above only use 7600c36-46-46 and increase your vdd/vddq to 1.42, then try tm5 again, and I assume you have a ram fan (90mm 2000rpms or 120mm (1200+rpms) at least. If not need to use one.


----------



## ESRCJ

opt33 said:


> If I were you I would put in just primaries including raising tras and change all other settings to auto and run that. If fails, then adjust imc and tx until stable so you know you can run frequency before adjust second/tert. Once stable, then add back secondary and tertiary few at a time, when something fails you know it was the 2-3 settings you just entered and can pin down the issue and either increase dram vdd/vddq or back off ones entered. I always look at others settings for ideas, but still walk mine down few at time, so makes it easy to know the issue when errs, and each kit is a little different. And tcwl 36 (auto) will be more stable than 34.
> 
> edit: also if temp error you can back off trefi and test. I can run 7600c36 with my ram fan off with 58C temps without error 2hrs karhu with all same settings except trefi reduced to 30k. trefi 65k with ram fan off errors. however that test only works for 7600 on mine (which is not finicky voltage or temp wise). 7800 on mine is nearing edge of capability of one of my components so very temp/voltage finicky regardless of trefi.


Unfortunately 7800 with just primaries set is not stable, regardless of voltages. In fact, I get errors within a few minutes now at 7800 no matter what. It's just completely unstable now. Anything that isn't "XMP tuned" at 7600 is unstable. If I change a single timing from XMP tuned, it's unstable. Damn. I've never had such a lackluster memory OC experience. Hard to pinpoint the issue. Perhaps the board?


----------



## z390e

4 DIMM boards are going to be more difficult than 2 DIMM boards to hit the higher speeds


----------



## 673714

themad said:


> Hi,
> Looking for a 7600 or 7800 16x2 kit for my z790 Apex. From what I've seen, Gskill and Teamgroup are the best (maybe only?) options. Any thoughts on one versus the other? Will be aircooled.
> 
> Also, where to find 7800 kits in online shops in Europe? Seems like Proshop is the one to go?


Depends, they have pros and cons
G.Skill is 100% compatible with Asus and the RGB software they use, but it runs hot. I'd pick these if you care about RGB, are not going to overclock more than XMP or if you're getting the non-RGB and plan to water cool them.
Teamgroup I think are ugly and seem generic, and I know nothing else about them


----------



## opt33

ESRCJ said:


> Unfortunately 7800 with just primaries set is not stable, regardless of voltages. In fact, I get errors within a few minutes now at 7800 no matter what. It's just completely unstable now. Anything that isn't "XMP tuned" at 7600 is unstable. If I change a single timing from XMP tuned, it's unstable. Damn. I've never had such a lackluster memory OC experience. Hard to pinpoint the issue. Perhaps the board?


Like z390e said harder on 4 dimm board....need better imc and better dram bin to run higher frequencies on 4 dimm boards vs 2 dimm.


----------



## narukun

hey guys what version of timing configurators are you using? I tried 4.0.4 and it doesn't work on an MSI Unify z690, same as memtweakit


----------



## ESRCJ

opt33 said:


> Like z390e said harder on 4 dimm board....need better imc and better dram bin to run higher frequencies on 4 dimm boards vs 2 dimm.


According to the BIOS, my MC rating is 75, which you would think would be good enough for 7800. What's annoying is I just had 7800 running much longer in Ramtest a few days ago and now it just instantly errors out. I was not expecting 4-dimm to be THIS far behind 2-dimm, but this is also my first time on a mainstream Intel platform. It made almost zero difference on X299. Lesson learned. Now I'm stuck with a $1000 board that gets outperformed by a $350 MSI board.


----------



## opt33

ESRCJ said:


> According to the BIOS, my MC rating is 75, which you would think would be good enough for 7800. What's annoying is I just had 7800 running much longer in Ramtest a few days ago and now it just instantly errors out. I was not expecting 4-dimm to be THIS far behind 2-dimm, but this is also my first time on a mainstream Intel platform. It made almost zero difference on X299. Lesson learned. Now I'm stuck with a $1000 board that gets outperformed by a $350 MSI board.


To run 7800c36 on any board need either good bin of ram that allows 7800c36 at low enough voltage to avoid temp errors (why I bought 7600 kit), or using aftermarket heatsinks +/- water.

I would clear cmos and start over, some of your setting in other thread seemed messed up (ie twrpden 138, twrpre 48, twr 99, something go messed up). But if you can run that long, may able to get 7800c36 stable just by backing off trefi slightly and increasing trfc slightly. And yeah probably not imc, my imc is 66 and no problem running 7600c36 or 7800c36. My 7600 kit is just better bin. 

you need to post screenshots with hwinfo for voltages, temps and memtweak or asrock etc so can see where you are at.

Also your imc voltage 1.25 may be low, and dont see your vddq tx voltage.


----------



## TraumatikOC

opt33 said:


> I use exact same settings for 7600c36 (except 1.38 vdd/vddq) that I use for 7800c36 (1.42 vdd/vddq) below. (with 7600 kit).
> View attachment 2585019


Decided to try 7800 again on my gskill 7200. Passed bios memtest, time to play some games and see if ok, then when sleeping will Testmem it.








EDIT updated Aida64


----------



## J_Lab4645

Dodgexander said:


> At the risk of stating the obvious, and something that was briefly already mentioned in the thread.
> 
> Don't bother at all with Hynix A-Die with a 12th gen CPU, especially if it's not a 12900k or one that you happen to know has a good IMC. Hours of searching and reading in this thread, and from other sources online you can expect max 7000mhz with a 12th gen, and that's one with a luckily good IMC. Most cap out lower, and if you have a 12700k you're likely to even cap out far lower than that.
> 
> The IMC in my 12700k sucks, the max I can get to boot is 6666 and even then, it's very unstable. You have to go down to 6400 to get stability and this is even with VDDQ TX and IMC set to 1.4v, 1.35v, 1.25v, 1.1v it doesn't matter. The quality of the IMC is so bad it doesn't matter which voltage is set.
> 
> So, you'd think; _ah so I can't get the high frequencies but that means I can tighten timings a lot on A-Die instead!_ *Nada*, the Team 7200 kit will not get tighter than 32-42-42-84 even at 6000 which is barely tighter than stock 34-42-42-84 settings!!
> 
> Sure, tightening some secondaries and tertiaries would help but I'm not prepared to be $400 down when I can't even tweak primary settings lower and having to run a 7200 kit at 6400.
> 
> This thread is so useful at times, but it also gives people unrealistic expectations sometimes. There are people who post 8000mhz with 12th gen CPUs, but they clearly have some kind of golden sample in both memory and CPU, plus they are using boards like the Asus Apex or EVGA Dark Kingpin which will clock a lot higher than others if you even have the IMC strength to begin with.
> 
> It's just not worth the hassle, or the cost right now. You're better off running crappy 5200 micron on 12th gen or if you want something a bit more premium the 6400 CL30 gskills/team ram.


........hmmmmmmmmmm?
...and the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation and the earth is flat and whatever you have experienced in life, has to be the truth. This i9-12900KS has an IMC SP of 55.
TG 7600 A-die.
******Z790 Asus mobo have regained their crown!


----------



## sugi0lover

Awesome GB run by Doojin using Mora 420(not ln2 or any extreme cooling)
*ASUS Z790 APEX 0031 Beta Bios 
Hynix 5600 A-DIE 9116 38-50-50-32 2T
P62 / C56 / E OFF BCLK 101.3
Cooling Mora420






ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-13900KF processor.



browser.geekbench.com



















*


----------



## rs199208

J_Lab4645 said:


> ........hmmmmmmmmmm?
> ...and the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation and the earth is flat and whatever you have experienced in life, has to be the truth. This i9-12900KS has an IMC SP of 55.
> TG 7600 A-die.
> ******Z790 Asus mobo have regained their crown!


amen brother! thank you!
PS: this is only pertaining to the tech... lol!


----------



## owikh84

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2203
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.60v BIOS set | TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.25V | MC 1.45V*


----------



## ESRCJ

opt33 said:


> To run 7800c36 on any board need either good bin of ram that allows 7800c36 at low enough voltage to avoid temp errors (why I bought 7600 kit), or using aftermarket heatsinks +/- water.
> 
> I would clear cmos and start over, some of your setting in other thread seemed messed up (ie twrpden 138, twrpre 48, twr 99, something go messed up). But if you can run that long, may able to get 7800c36 stable just by backing off trefi slightly and increasing trfc slightly. And yeah probably not imc, my imc is 66 and no problem running 7600c36 or 7800c36. My 7600 kit is just better bin.
> 
> you need to post screenshots with hwinfo for voltages, temps and memtweak or asrock etc so can see where you are at.
> 
> Also your imc voltage 1.25 may be low, and dont see your vddq tx voltage.


I seem to have bigger issues now. I ran "XMP tweaked" (7600 CL36 G.skill kit) and touched nothing else this morning, which passed 10,000% of Ramtest without issues. This afternoon, I can't even pass 200 percent with the exact same settings. Even Memtest86 is getting errors. Not sure what happened, but I also ran the MC test again in BIOS, which showed a lower score than before. My MC SP decreased from 75 to 73, and then down to 72 after another run. Note that the SP 75 was on an older BIOS, but now I am starting to worry that my IMC may be magically degrading, despite keeping all voltages quite tame and only having this particular CPU for a few weeks. Either that, or the memory modules themselves are degrading or perhaps the motherboard is somehow degrading lol. I have no idea, but this is incredibly stressful.


----------



## rs199208

ESRCJ said:


> I seem to have bigger issues now. I ran "XMP tweaked" (7600 CL36 G.skill kit) and touched nothing else this morning, which passed 10,000% of Ramtest without issues. This afternoon, I can't even pass 200 percent with the exact same settings. Even Memtest86 is getting errors. Not sure what happened, but I also ran the MC test again in BIOS, which showed a lower score than before. My MC SP decreased from 75 to 73, and then down to 72 after another run. Note that the SP 75 was on an older BIOS, but now I am starting to worry that my IMC may be magically degrading, despite keeping all voltages quite tame and only having this particular CPU for a few weeks. Either that, or the memory modules themselves are degrading or perhaps the motherboard is somehow degrading lol. I have no idea, but this is incredibly stressful.


i'm sorry you are having such a rough time with a 4 dimm MB. other than getting this MB to work, you cant return it?


----------



## opt33

ESRCJ said:


> I seem to have bigger issues now. I ran "XMP tweaked" (7600 CL36 G.skill kit) and touched nothing else this morning, which passed 10,000% of Ramtest without issues. This afternoon, I can't even pass 200 percent with the exact same settings. Even Memtest86 is getting errors. Not sure what happened, but I also ran the MC test again in BIOS, which showed a lower score than before. My MC SP decreased from 75 to 73, and then down to 72 after another run. Note that the SP 75 was on an older BIOS, but now I am starting to worry that my IMC may be magically degrading, despite keeping all voltages quite tame and only having this particular CPU for a few weeks. Either that, or the memory modules themselves are degrading or perhaps the motherboard is somehow degrading lol. I have no idea, but this is incredibly stressful.


I would unplug psu, remove ram and reseat it (in case contact issue), clear cmos as well. But if troubleshooting doesnt work, like rs199208 suggested could look at returning it.


----------



## ESRCJ

rs199208 said:


> i'm sorry you are having such a rough time with a 4 dimm MB. other than getting this MB to work, you cant return it?


No, I bought it from Central Computers, which does not have a forgiving return policy. It's also past the 30 day return window (which only applies for a replacement of the same board). I could RMA it through Asus, but that will be a very long process. Also, if my CPU IMC is actually degrading, then a mobo RMA won't help.


----------



## rs199208

ESRCJ said:


> No, I bought it from Central Computers, which does not have a forgiving return policy. It's also past the 30 day return window (which only applies for a replacement of the same board). I could RMA it through Asus, but that will be a very long process. Also, if my CPU IMC is actually degrading, then a mobo RMA won't help.


forgive me, but i'm assuming you are overreacting about the memory controller. the SP changes by many different ways including bios updates etc. its just estimate that is not perfect in anyway. 
by the way thanks for the heads-up on CC, i was looking at their site today actually.


----------



## Nisa

J_Lab4645 said:


> ........hmmmmmmmmmm?
> ...and the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinformation and the earth is flat and whatever you have experienced in life, has to be the truth. This i9-12900KS has an IMC SP of 55.
> TG 7600 A-die.
> ******Z790 Asus mobo have regained their crown!


Can you upload bios profile file?


----------



## rs199208

ESRCJ said:


> No, I bought it from Central Computers, which does not have a forgiving return policy. It's also past the 30 day return window (which only applies for a replacement of the same board). I could RMA it through Asus, but that will be a very long process. Also, if my CPU IMC is actually degrading, then a mobo RMA won't help.


you don't have a contact frame in use do you? intel cpu's need a certain amount of pressure on the IHS normally a ton of pressure.. the memory performance is usually the first effected with bad contact.


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

Team Group Team T-Force Vulcan 32GB 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 5600 Desktop
FLRD532G5600HC32DC01

*2x16GB DDR5-6800 34-42-42-30-2T
VDD 1.41V, CPU VDDQ 1.4V, SA 1.25V*

Cheapest board and ram, still good, save the money for a better GPU first..


----------



## 673714

ESRCJ said:


> No, I bought it from Central Computers, which does not have a forgiving return policy. It's also past the 30 day return window (which only applies for a replacement of the same board). I could RMA it through Asus, but that will be a very long process. Also, if my CPU IMC is actually degrading, then a mobo RMA won't help.


Opt for the "Advanced RMA" process and you won't go a whole day without your PC.
Also, the MC SP changes every time I run it. It's been 40, 39, and then 42 within 1 hour


----------



## Lune

energie80 said:


> View attachment 2584913


What is that, 180p?  Rerun it since it's bugged.


----------



## Veii

zachy79 said:


> and from TM5 error list it says:


This only goes for 1usmus_v3 preset, which works a different way
Anta's is a discharge test config & there are only two categories of issues


----------



## ESRCJ

rs199208 said:


> forgive me, but i'm assuming you are overreacting about the memory controller. the SP changes by many different ways including bios updates etc. its just estimate that is not perfect in anyway.
> by the way thanks for the heads-up on CC, i was looking at their site today actually.


I just threw that one out there as a possibility. I would guess it's less likely, given that I have not been running excessive voltages at any point. 

CC is local for me, so that's why I went with them for a few products. The larger retailers are a better choice if you want a more consumer-friendly return window/process.



rs199208 said:


> you don't have a contact frame in use do you? intel cpu's need a certain amount of pressure on the IHS normally a ton of pressure.. the memory performance is usually the first effected with bad contact.


Yeah I have a Thermalright contact frame. Temps are ok, so I think I should have adequate pressure.



LilOliVert said:


> Opt for the "Advanced RMA" process and you won't go a whole day without your PC.
> Also, the MC SP changes every time I run it. It's been 40, 39, and then 42 within 1 hour


Asus does advanced RMAs? I didn't know that. I've heard so many nightmare stories with Asus RMAs that I feel less inclined to go that route until I've ruled out other possibilities. I have another memory kit on the way.


----------



## bscool

narukun said:


> hey guys what version of timing configurators are you using? I tried 4.0.4 and it doesn't work on an MSI Unify z690, same as memtweakit


These should work with 12/13th gen _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...

Newer memtweakit MemTweakIt_20221101.zip


----------



## 673714

ESRCJ said:


> I just threw that one out there as a possibility. I would guess it's less likely, given that I have not been running excessive voltages at any point.
> 
> CC is local for me, so that's why I went with them for a few products. The larger retailers are a better choice if you want a more consumer-friendly return window/process.
> 
> 
> Yeah I have a Thermalright contact frame. Temps are ok, so I think I should have adequate pressure.
> 
> 
> Asus does advanced RMAs? I didn't know that. I've heard so many nightmare stories with Asus RMAs that I feel less inclined to go that route until I've ruled out other possibilities. I have another memory kit on the way.


They sure do and I think if you call them instead of doing it online, they'll email you a prepaid shipping label, so it doesn't cost you anything.
It's kind of a secret in that you have to call and ask them for it, unless they just felt really sorry for me 
The advanced RMA is a great way to avoid some of those nightmare stories too. They can't just flash the bios and ship it back to you if they send you the replacement first


----------



## centvalny

Gskill 7600 air 8Kc32 tights


----------



## rs199208

ESRCJ said:


> Yeah I have a Thermalright contact frame. Temps are ok, so I think I should have adequate pressure.


No reason not to try it without the frame... or try different tighten or loosened. The stock ilm are very light finger snug screws to mb in my experience.
I've seen multiple instances of the frame screwing up memory.
Last one was ready to blame it on a bad cpu before I suggested the frame could be at fault. Again I guessed that he could of had a frame and was correct.
He agreed then never heard again so I'm assuming it worked.
He was freaking out.


----------



## bigfootnz

Carillo said:


> Got the G.skill 6400 c32 kit today , and as you can see it’s 100% A-die 235 batch. Just started testing them, and so far i think it looks very promising for a 200 dollar G.skill kit. Will post my final results , but currently testing 8200 c34 very tight subs , 1.58 VDD and 1,57 VDDQ on z790 Apex using 0803 bios
> View attachment 2584774
> View attachment 2584775


So you are saying that 235A batch is A-die? Dies this means that batch 148A is A-die also? This is some cheap 2x8GB (like $65) but not sure is it A or M-die


----------



## sulalin

bigfootnz said:


> So you are saying that 235A batch is A-die? Dies this means that batch 148A is A-die also? This is some cheap 2x8GB (like $65) but not sure is it A or M-die


 H5CG46 M EBD= MDIE H5CG48 A GBD=ADIE !!!


----------



## bigfootnz

sulalin said:


> H5CG46 M EBD= MDIE H5CG48 A GBD=ADIE !!!


Thanks


----------



## Veii

MTC8C1084S1UC*56B*A1 ~ Micron A-Die, 5600 JEDEC?
[email protected]


https://media-www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/data-sheet/modules/unbuffered_dimm/ddr5/mtc8c1084s1uc_srx8_udimm_diereva.pdf


MTC16C2085S1UC*56B*A1 ~ DR


----------



## sulalin

MC SP 69.....😭😭😭 GEAR 2 9200MHZ 8P+16E 32HT SINGLE CHANNEL


----------



## Carillo

Compared another IMC to mine yesterday. Mine is 73 with new bios and the new one is 81... Can confirm the 81 SP IMC is horrible compared to mine 73. Could not do 8400 stable on my Apex. Tried everything, different bioses, sticks and so on, no way. Popped in the old one 73, no problem with 8400 8533 and 8600 again. Maybe i dont know what i´m doing , but this is my findings regarding this imc number.


----------



## owikh84

SA reduced to 1.175v and tighten the tWRWR_sg to 20...

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2203
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.60v BIOS set | TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.175V | MC 1.45V*


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> Compared another IMC to mine yesterday. Mine is 73 with new bios and the new one is 81... Can confirm the 81 SP IMC is horrible compared to mine 73. Could not do 8400 stable on my Apex. Tried everything, different bioses, sticks and so on, no way. Popped in the old one 73, no problem with 8400 8533 and 8600 again. Maybe i dont know what i´m doing , but this is my findings regarding this imc number.


My second 13900k has SP MC 77. Just running m-die 7000c32 on it (air)
For now, MC SP looks like a bit random. Very low SP mc on 12900k is bad, atleast if we look at some posts here. "low" SP MC on 13900k isn't bad. Strange


----------



## Zero989

Nizzen said:


> My second 13900k has SP MC 77. Just running m-die 7000c32 on it (air)
> For now, MC SP looks like a bit random. Very low SP mc on 12900k is bad, atleast if we look at some posts here. "low" SP MC on 13900k isn't bad. Strange


Does the MC reading translate over to D4 or is it strictly D5?


----------



## bianbao.dev

Nizzen said:


> My second 13900k has SP MC 77. Just running m-die 7000c32 on it (air)
> For now, MC SP looks like a bit random. Very low SP mc on 12900k is bad, atleast if we look at some posts here. "low" SP MC on 13900k isn't bad. Strange


MC SP higher means more higher GEAR 2 mem clock possibility, but not related to higher mem clock stability.

it might by mem sticks or mem training result casue system unstable.

So MC SP is just a reference value not a result value.


----------



## opt33

vcolor (worst kit) now tm5 stable 10mins 7800c36 using 1.50 vdd/vddq with same normal ambient temps just using corsair dominator heatsinks/thermal pads. (pic 1), without exchanging heatsinks, not even 7600 would run tm5 long. Also vcolor and TG kits all error in TM5 at 1.45vdd or higher from IC temps, spit errors at 1.47v, and bsod within seconds with 1.5vdd/vddq because of low thermal conductance tape on IC's.

I removed heatsinks from my corsair dominator mdie kit (turns out corsair using higher thermal conductance adhesive pads along with better surface area heatsinks), and since corsair adhesive pads did not come off heatsinks and still sticky, i just pressed corsair heatsink/pads on my vcolor kits, whole process took 10 minutes. (pic 2)

If corsair a die kits using same better thermals adhesive pads as on mdie, then corsair will be the way to go on air. If anyone gets them, run tm5 few minutes 1.5v, if doesnt spit errors/bsod, then using same better pads.

And benefit is not just higher voltage, these lower temps make huge difference in stability, bet lot of peoples problems with 7600/7800 are IC temps and not imc/mobo issues.


----------



## sulalin

If you can’t afford the Z790 APEX, then use the Z690 APEX as a 790.....

DDR5 air-cooled quad 8533/8600/8728MHZ 8800MHZ is coming!

single channel 8P+16E+32HT GEAR2 9200MHZ direct open OC 9272MHZ



Spoiler: 13900K+Z690 APEX+T-FORCE DDR5


----------



## rulik006

Veii said:


> MTC8C1084S1UC*56B*A1 ~ Micron A-Die, 5600 JEDEC?
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> https://media-www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/data-sheet/modules/unbuffered_dimm/ddr5/mtc8c1084s1uc_srx8_udimm_diereva.pdf
> 
> 
> MTC16C2085S1UC*56B*A1 ~ DR


Micron finally reached 5600 
but its the same A-die


----------



## z390e

imagine someone jacks your computer @opt33 and then looks at those DIMMS then does a CPU-Z lol they are gonna be confusedAF

great stuff


----------



## Shadowdane

So no idea what I have here.. clearly SK Hynix, but not sure what die revision??

Trying to figure out what to tighten, haven't messed with DDR5 before.


----------



## bsod_eliminator

Shadowdane said:


> So no idea what I have here.. clearly SK Hynix, but not sure what die revision??
> 
> Trying to figure out what to tighten, haven't messed with DDR5 before.


7200 XMP can be only the Hynix A-Die.


----------



## Dodgexander

I know it's the pmic temp and not the actual ic temp but when does A die tend to error out for people?

I have an itx build and can run the Team 7200 kit at XMP but the modules are thick and tight against each other so they seem to crash when they reach 60°c. They idle at 40°c .

I'm going to need some cooling methinks..


----------



## opt33

Dodgexander said:


> I know it's the pmic temp and not the actual ic temp but when does A die tend to error out for people?
> 
> I have an itx build and can run the Team 7200 kit at XMP but the modules are thick and tight against each other so they seem to crash when they reach 60°c. They idle at 40°c .
> 
> I'm going to need some cooling methinks..


my spd temps max at 51C with 1.42vdd/vddq which is error free. spd temps much above mid 50's doesnt work well for long stability tests, especially at higher volts. With ram fan (90mm at 2000rpms or 120mm at 1200+rpms, dram temps drop 8-10C.

The corsair 7600 kit is $599 on their site, so $200 for better thermal pad/heatsink...cheaper to buy TG/gskill and then aftermarket heatsinks/thermal pads (which are reusable). Though corsair does save you the hassle. Gskill/TG/Vcolor need to copy corsairs thermal adhesive pads and ditch the thermal tape.


----------



## Carillo

So this is the final and best results I could achieve with my G.skill 6400 kit, and I got to say, if you find this on sale like me and 24/7 settings is your goal, this is a really good value kit IMO. 8400 c34 really tight needed 1.68 VDD in bios but still very impressive. I was able to to do a much more relaxed 8400 with 1.64, and 8200 c34 tight was easy with 1.58vdd. This is of course on water.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

centvalny said:


> Gskill 7600 tests air
> 
> 8000 @ xmp sets 1.4v
> View attachment 2584917
> 
> 
> 8800
> View attachment 2584918


how are you able to hold your SPD temps so low on air at 1.6 VDD??


----------



## Dodgexander

opt33 said:


> my spd temps max at 51C with 1.42vdd/vddq which is error free. spd temps much above mid 50's doesnt work well for long stability tests, especially at higher volts. With ram fan (90mm at 2000rpms or 120mm at 1200+rpms, dram temps drop 8-10C.
> 
> The corsair 7600 kit is $599 on their site, so $200 for better thermal pad/heatsink...cheaper to buy TG/gskill and then aftermarket heatsinks/thermal pads (which are reusable). Though corsair does save you the hassle. Gskill/TG/Vcolor need to copy corsairs thermal adhesive pads and ditch the thermal tape.


I may have to just return these and go back to my crap micron sticks until Corsair gets cheaper. Not sure it's worth the hassle in an itx case.

Although tm5 heats them up unrealistically for real world use.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Разгон оперативной памяти DDR5 Gskill F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK 32GB до 7800мгц с водяным охлаждением.


Купил данную память на newegg.com за 399.99 долларов, позже она подешевела до 299.99 долларов, ждал посылку от момента оплаты около 1 месяца, но это того стоило, в России такая память не продавалась. Сама по себе память ничего выдающегося из себя не представляет, на XMP профиле тайминги высокие...




dzen.ru


----------



## 2500k_2

9000 from chiphell


----------



## NBPDC505

Not too exciting vs what has been posted here. 1.42 VDD/VDDQ, 1.15 SA, 1.41 TX VDDQ, 1.42 MC. V-color 7800mhz kit tightened up. Z790 Hero on 0803 with 13900K. MC SP 79. Didn't have HWinfo running during test but max temp reported by memory was 49C with a 140mm fan resting on the GPU pointed at the memory. Still learning so any pointers for a stable 8000mhz setup on air would be appreciated. Couple pics of the rig just because.


----------



## Lord Alzov




----------



## energie80

Voltages?


----------



## opt33

NBPDC505 said:


> Not too exciting vs what has been posted here. 1.42 VDD/VDDQ, 1.15 SA, 1.41 TX VDDQ, 1.42 MC. V-color 7800mhz kit tightened up. Z790 Hero on 0803 with 13900K. MC SP 79. Didn't have HWinfo running during test but max temp reported by memory was 49C with a 140mm fan resting on the GPU pointed at the memory. Still learning so any pointers for a stable 8000mhz setup on air would be appreciated. Couple pics of the rig just because.


My z790 hero with my 13900 sp 66 imc wont do 8000 stable (8000 boot limit into windows), 7800 max stable. For 8000+ using current kits, I would need 2 dimm mobo like apex and either aftermarket heatsink or binned low voltage kit or maybe corsair.

you could try 8000c38 at 1.43 or 1.44v just to see if yours will run that frequency. To run 8000c36 you would need 1.46+ vdd but that would just error from temps alone unless using aftermarket heatsink/better thermal pads or outside cold air.


----------



## Veii

2500k_2 said:


> 9000 from chiphell


Far to short to mean anything stable. Ignore memtests sub 1h
But doesnt crash - not bad


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

NBPDC505 said:


> Not too exciting vs what has been posted here. 1.42 VDD/VDDQ, 1.15 SA, 1.41 TX VDDQ, 1.42 MC. V-color 7800mhz kit tightened up. Z790 Hero on 0803 with 13900K. MC SP 79. Didn't have HWinfo running during test but max temp reported by memory was 49C with a 140mm fan resting on the GPU pointed at the memory. Still learning so any pointers for a stable 8000mhz setup on air would be appreciated. Couple pics of the rig just because.
> 
> View attachment 2585275
> 
> View attachment 2585278
> 
> View attachment 2585279


Do you have any issues at all controlling the 22 RGB zones around the end of your ROG Strix RTX 4090? (not the RGB's that make up the Republic of Gamers Logo)

I have a ROG Strix 4090 on a Z690 Apex motherboard, and the 22 RGB Zones that wrap around the end of the GPU are completely and totally unresponsive to any kind of RGB commands. They light up, they work. They just light up as a random static color, sometimes multiple static colors. But i cant change them.

I've tried Armory Crate, SignalRGB, Open RGB, and Corsair Icue. None of them have been able to control the RGB zones around the end of the GPU at all. Its been like this since the day i got it. I even tried installing a 100% fresh install of Windows 10 and then installing armory crate. Still didnt work

I can control the RGB zones that make up the Republic of Gamers logo just fine. They work flawlessly.

Having a hard time believing that im the only person on the planet having this issue. Been going back and forth with Asus customer support for 6 weeks now. They still cant figure out what the problem is

Id take it back to microcenter and exchange it to rule out the possibility of faulty hardware, but the damn thing wont come back in stock

My VBIOS is up to date with the most current version Asus has made available. All of my chipset, graphics, and I/O drivers and firmware are also current as well.


----------



## NBPDC505

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Do you have any issues at all controlling the 22 RGB zones around the end of your ROG Strix RTX 4090? (not the RGB's that make up the Republic of Gamers Logo)
> 
> I have a ROG Strix 4090 on a Z690 Apex motherboard, and the 22 RGB Zones that wrap around the end of the GPU are completely and totally unresponsive to any kind of RGB commands. They light up, they work. They just light up as a random static color, sometimes multiple static colors. But i cant change them.
> 
> I've tried Armory Crate, SignalRGB, Open RGB, and Corsair Icue. None of them have been able to control the RGB zones around the end of the GPU at all. Its been like this since the day i got it. I even tried installing a 100% fresh install of Windows 10 and then installing armory crate. Still didnt work
> 
> I can control the RGB zones that make up the Republic of Gamers logo just fine. They work flawlessly.
> 
> Having a hard time believing that im the only person on the planet having this issue. Been going back and forth with Asus customer support for 6 weeks now. They still cant figure out what the problem is
> 
> Id take it back to microcenter and exchange it to rule out the possibility of faulty hardware, but the damn thing wont come back in stock
> 
> My VBIOS is up to date with the most current version Asus has made available. All of my chipset, graphics, and I/O drivers and firmware are also current as well.


I was able to control those without issue when Armory Crate was in use. Using open RGB now and it does not recognize the GPU and on occasion doesn't work with the ram but otherwise it's been good.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

NBPDC505 said:


> I was able to control those without issue when Armory Crate was in use. Using open RGB now and it does not recognize the GPU and on occasion doesn't work with the ram but otherwise it's been good.


Damn, lucky you! Armory crate has no effect on mine at all. Even on a 100% fresh install of windows. Wish asus would actually try and fix this for me. Ive been getting passed around from rep to rep for the past 6 weeks. I've probably sent them 15 different videos of me replicating the issue. Haven't heard anything from them in 7 days now. Almost like they dont beleive me, they havent even offered an RMA


----------



## pipes

Nobody had use this ram? 








TEAMGROUP Elite Plus DDR5 16GB 5600MHz PC5-44800 CL46 Unbuffered Non-ECC 1.1V UDIMM 288 Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Silver) - TPSD516G5600HC4601 at Amazon.com


Buy TEAMGROUP Elite Plus DDR5 16GB 5600MHz PC5-44800 CL46 Unbuffered Non-ECC 1.1V UDIMM 288 Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Silver) - TPSD516G5600HC4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## owikh84

pipes said:


> Nobody had use this ram?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEAMGROUP Elite Plus DDR5 16GB 5600MHz PC5-44800 CL46 Unbuffered Non-ECC 1.1V UDIMM 288 Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Silver) - TPSD516G5600HC4601 at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP Elite Plus DDR5 16GB 5600MHz PC5-44800 CL46 Unbuffered Non-ECC 1.1V UDIMM 288 Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Silver) - TPSD516G5600HC4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


From buyer's review down there, it's an M-die:


----------



## pipes

owikh84 said:


> From buyer's review down there, it's an M-die:
> View attachment 2585306


on the Linus tech forum, a user said they were a-die...too bad, they were at a good price

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bhav

@NBPDC505 Now I know how to still cool my ram when I get my new case yay.

So it looks like no vertical mounting for the GPU ever lol.


----------



## WayWayUp

im gona have to get used to this. I'm coming from a 10900k and ddr4 system that had 36.6ns as my daily

I knew with ddr5 that i would never get it that low but my goal is just to be under 50ns for now


----------



## bhav

WayWayUp said:


> View attachment 2585326
> 
> 
> im gona have to get used to this. I'm coming from a 10900k and ddr4 system that had 36.6ns as my daily
> 
> I knew with ddr5 that i would never get it that low but my goal is just to be under 50ns for now


If its Mdie you should be able to get it to 48ns after tuning. 

Also losing latency after the 10900K isn't DDR5 specific, none of the chips after it have anywhere near as good a DDR4 IMC since Intel started adding gears, even getting <45ns with DDR4 on 13th gen is tricky.

So you sacrifice what was the best chip for DDR4 overclocking for a much stronger CPU, the latter is still more important.


----------



## Agent-A01

owikh84 said:


> From buyer's review down there, it's an M-die:
> View attachment 2585306



I bought this for a build https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P35J2PQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

TG 5200 40-40-40 and it was M-die. Achieved 7000 no problem on a Z790 Prime-A board.

For $124 @ 7000 the 5200 kit is probably the best deal period.


----------



## rs199208

Agent-A01 said:


> I bought this for a build https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P35J2PQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
> 
> TG 5200 40-40-40 and it was M-die. Achieved 7000 no problem on a Z790 Prime-A board.
> 
> For $124 @ 7000 the 5200 kit is probably the best deal period.


 wow! thanks!


----------



## X61

Is running IMC (CPU VDD2) at 1.45V 24/7 safe? Will it not lead to IMC degradation in time?

I've got G.Skill 2x32GB DDR5-6000 which happened to be A-die and was wondering what would be the safe voltages to make this memory stable above 6600...


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> Nobody had use this ram?
> http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-5600MHz-PC5-44800-Unbuffered-Non-ECC/dp/B0BC8N7WMR[/URL]
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I have 4x


pipes said:


> Nobody had use this ram?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TEAMGROUP Elite Plus DDR5 16GB 5600MHz PC5-44800 CL46 Unbuffered Non-ECC 1.1V UDIMM 288 Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Silver) - TPSD516G5600HC4601 at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy TEAMGROUP Elite Plus DDR5 16GB 5600MHz PC5-44800 CL46 Unbuffered Non-ECC 1.1V UDIMM 288 Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Silver) - TPSD516G5600HC4601: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I have 4x team elite 5600 1.1v with no heat spreders. M-die and they are pretty good. 7200mhz pretty easy.


----------



## Kenan_D

Hello guys i bought the MSI MEG Z690 Unify non X. Is this motherboard also able to do 6800-7000 speeds with a hynix m die? And what slots do i have to use? 1 and 3 of 2 and 4? Thanks in advance!


----------



## sulalin

DDR5-8800MHZ is coming!
Mortals use 790 open ~ God uses 690 open!


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> I have 4x
> 
> I have 4x team elite 5600 1.1v with no heat spreders. M-die and they are pretty good. 7200mhz pretty easy.


And have you tried this too? TEAMGROUP Elite DDR5 16GB 5600Mhz (PC5-44800) CL46 Non-ECC Unbuffered 1.1V 1Rx8 Single Rank UDIMM 288 Pin PC Computer Desktop Memory Module Ram Upgrade - TED516G5600C4601 https://a.co/d/4ST1PG9

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## pipes

sulalin said:


> DDR5-8800MHZ is coming!
> Mortals use 790 open ~ God uses 690 open!
> View attachment 2585384
> View attachment 2585385


What board use god?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sulalin

pipes said:


> 什麼板子用神？
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 使用 Tapatalk
> [/引用]
> Z690 APEX


----------



## morph.

Waiting for some higher binned A-dies to pop up at my resellers so to kill time might try to push my m-die further but I seem to hitting a brick wall with stability testing.

Anyone got some Hynix M-Die 7000/7200 timings & voltages they can share as inspiration please thanks.


----------



## pipes

i am planning to purchase the z790 apex

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## asdkj1740

bianbao.dev said:


> MC SP higher means more higher GEAR 2 mem clock possibility, but not related to higher mem clock stability.
> 
> it might by mem sticks or mem training result casue system unstable.
> 
> So MC SP is just a reference value not a result value.


lets welcome the asus dram master bianbao!
asus has entered the chat once again!


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

morph. said:


> Waiting for some higher binned A-dies to pop up at my resellers so to kill time might try to push my m-die further but I seem to hitting a brick wall with stability testing.
> 
> Anyone got some Hynix M-Die 7000/7200 timings & voltages they can share as inspiration please thanks.


Unify-X with TRASH 13700KF but with good IMC and 120mm high speed fan on ram. Z5's
Getting around 110gb's and 47ns in MLC GUI ( sometimes go as low as 46ns, but i believe its not correct )

1.48 vdimm
1.46 vddq
1.120 SA
1.375 CPU VDDQ

1usmus_v3 6 cycle stable and Star Wars Battlefront 2 20V20 map stable


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can some one share 8400 or 8600 stable setting?


----------



## WayWayUp

Anyone run into issues before with *16 error code? *(Asus)
Thinking now to return this mobo is bunk


----------



## nickolp1974

Just having a sunday play, Finally managed14k on GB3 with these, still as always  a work in progress, this is 13900k at stock but with tunned LLC and remove all limits, everything else untouched.


----------



## bsdinis

I've got a pair of Corsair Vengeance CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 running on a 13700K/Z790-A Prime and can't get them stable at 6000C36.

@ 2801 MHz 36-36-36-76 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 112-827-449-365-85 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFCSB-WR)
Voltage (VDD) 1.25 V
Voltage (VDDQ) 1.25 V
Voltage (VPP) 1.80 V
Voltage (Memory Controller) 1.20 V


----------



## tubs2x4

bsdinis said:


> I've got a pair of Corsair Vengeance CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 running on a 13700K/Z790-A Prime and can't get them stable at 6000C36.
> 
> @ 2801 MHz 36-36-36-76 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 112-827-449-365-85 (RC-RFC1-RFC2-RFCSB-WR)
> Voltage (VDD) 1.25 V
> Voltage (VDDQ) 1.25 V
> Voltage (VPP) 1.80 V
> Voltage (Memory Controller) 1.20 V


Leave mem controller voltage and system agent voltage auto… your going to need at least 1.35-1.375 for them samsung dram. And if that don’t work going to have to maybe try 36-38-38-76
Make sure you have xmp1 enabled. Not xmp2.


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can some one share 8400 or 8600 stable setting?











Set: TWR= Auto
Set: tPRPDEN=Auto
Set: TWRPDEN= Auto
Set: tCPDED=Auto

Use memtweakit settings, and copy into bios. Just Auto on the 4x settings.


Disable fastboot in bios. (under timings)
Good luck 

Loading others CMO is often epic fail. Better to set them manually.


----------



## dante`afk

sulalin said:


> If you can’t afford the Z790 APEX, then use the Z690 APEX as a 790.....
> 
> DDR5 air-cooled quad 8533/8600/8728MHZ 8800MHZ is coming!
> 
> single channel 8P+16E+32HT GEAR2 9200MHZ direct open OC 9272MHZ
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 13900K+Z690 APEX+T-FORCE DDR5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585216
> 
> View attachment 2585217
> 
> View attachment 2585215
> 
> View attachment 2585214
> 
> View attachment 2585218
> 
> View attachment 2585220
> 
> View attachment 2585219


forgot the asterisk along this statement

*properly working z690 non bugged apex


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2585434
> 
> Set: TWR= Auto
> Set: tPRPDEN=Auto
> Set: TWRPDEN= Auto
> Set: tCPDED=Auto
> 
> Use memtweakit settings, and copy into bios. Just Auto on the 4x settings.
> 
> 
> Disable fastboot in bios. (under timings)
> Good luck
> 
> Loading others CMO is often epic fail. Better to set them manually.


Those green stick voltage is weird. What is set in bios will be 0.7mv lower in window.


----------



## energie80

My new daily profile 1.47vdd









advices are always welcome


----------



## bsdinis

tubs2x4 said:


> Leave mem controller voltage and system agent voltage auto… your going to need at least 1.35-1.375 for them samsung dram. And if that don’t work going to have to maybe try 36-38-38-76
> Make sure you have xmp1 enabled. Not xmp2.


I was just posting their default XMP profile.


I was using XMP II and I never touched the timings, I left them at their XMP default of 36-36-36-76.
I tried with SA voltage always on Auto as this board doesn't seem to pump too much voltage. DDR5-4800 auto SA voltage is 850mV, for DDR5-5600 it's 1.15V and for DDR5-6000 it's 1.25V.

I just tried 6000MHz 36-36-36-76 1.30v/1.30v with the XMP I profile as you suggested and it seems to last longer before throwing errors on HCI memtest.
I noticed that going from XMP II to XMP I the Memory Controller voltage was set from 1.20v to Auto, and the auto setting goes to 1.26v for 5600MHz and goes to 1.36v for 6000MHz, so I just set it manually to 1.20v

I am going to try 1.35v/1.35v on the memories and see if it's stable at 6000MHz 36-36-36-76 with the XMP I profile.


----------



## Carillo

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Those green stick voltage is weird. What is set in bios will be 0.7mv lower in window.


Around 1.75 vdd and 1.73 vddq in bios for this profile. NON OC pmic, thats why


----------



## WayWayUp

I have my a die running 8000 34 44 44 34
These are stable and the voltage is where I feel comfortable in the 1.5range. I didn’t need voltage bump from 7600 to 8000 but when I went with tweak 2 plus lowered cas to 34 I needed to jump it up to 1.55 for both
I tried 8200 but it gets errors in memtest so I probably need more voltage and I’m not too interested in that


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Those green stick voltage is weird. What is set in bios will be 0.7mv lower in window.


I use Green yes. It's like 0.6-0.6v higher in bios


----------



## nickolp1974

so who's done A die testing on a 4 dimm board(asus z790 results preferred), still curious to see if there worth it???


----------



## newls1

@opt33 @Nizzen Can you guys assist me please... I took the heatspreaders off my gskill 7600's and now im just wanting to get things ready as monday (tomorrow) my ram block comes but I have a question if you dont mind. Would you think using a strip of thermal pad up top of the new heatspreaders would be good to use to have the block sit on, or use thermal paste? The instructions dont say anything about using paste/pad on top of the heatspreaders where the block sits but there is no way it would make even contact without some sort of thermal material up there as its not perfectly flat.. you know what i mean!?


----------



## sulalin

2500k_2 said:


> 9000 from chiphell


Does anyone know why I have seen some people's MEMTWEAKLT parameter configuration pictures, TWCL is abnormally low~ It is also seen in ASROCK TIMING~ Usually this parameter is automatically set according to the CL value -2 even if it is manually set. 4 Isn’t it? And if this parameter is changed by software in the system, it will cause a crash~ I don’t know why I found this problem after looking at the stability test pictures of several people recently


----------



## sblantipodi

nickolp1974 said:


> so who's done A die testing on a 4 dimm board(asus z790 results preferred), still curious to see if there worth it???


Z690 Extreme here with 13900K and M die Hynix.
Raptor doesn't bringed any improvements, it's clearly a mobo issue since the MC on Raptor is way better than the one on Alder.


----------



## chibi

newls1 said:


> @opt33 @Nizzen Can you guys assist me please... I took the heatspreaders off my gskill 7600's and now im just wanting to get things ready as monday (tomorrow) my ram block comes but I have a question if you dont mind. Would you think using a strip of thermal pad up top of the new heatspreaders would be good to use to have the block sit on, or use thermal paste? The instructions dont say anything about using paste/pad on top of the heatspreaders where the block sits but there is no way it would make even contact without some sort of thermal material up there as its not perfectly flat.. you know what i mean!?


Use paste like you would with IHS and heatsink/block.


----------



## newls1

chibi said:


> Use paste like you would with IHS and heatsink/block.


ok, thank you. was hoping youd say use a pad cause its cleaner, but paste it is then!


----------



## sulalin

nickolp1974 said:


> so who's done A die testing on a 4 dimm board(asus z790 results preferred), still curious to see if there worth it???


Does that count?


----------



## affxct

I’m seeing so many 7600-8000 results out of Z690 boards that I’m not sure what to think anymore.


----------



## RogueSix

As a prospective 13900K buyer who does not want to do "crazy" things, I'm wondering which memory to buy. I'd really like to shoot for a 7200MHz or maybe even 7600MHz kit but 7200MHz would do, I think.

Here in EU/Germany that means either G.Skill, Teamgroup or Corsair. Which brand would you guys recommend? Which one do you think has the best chance of a simple XMP plug & play process without extra cooling?

P.S.: I would put the 13900K + RAM in a four DIMM ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-E mainboard. The 13900K will get an AiO and the rest of the system will be air cooled (Lian Li O11D EVO case with 2x 140mm bottom, 2x 140mm top, 1x 120mm back fans).

Thanks in advance for your help  .


----------



## TraumatikOC

affxct said:


> I’m seeing so many 7600-8000 results out of Z690 boards that I’m not sure what to think anymore.


Yea , might be newer 2022 z690 boards and a select few 2021s. My z690 extreme didnt like anything over 6200 with 4 different cpus tested and 1 gskill 6000 1 TG6200. Like someone said, some of the higher z690 results are from insiders that get cherry picked (binned) hardware, the rest got lucky w/ 2021 boards.


----------



## tubs2x4

bsdinis said:


> I was just posting their default XMP profile.
> 
> 
> I was using XMP II and I never touched the timings, I left them at their XMP default of 36-36-36-76.
> I tried with SA voltage always on Auto as this board doesn't seem to pump too much voltage. DDR5-4800 auto SA voltage is 850mV, for DDR5-5600 it's 1.15V and for DDR5-6000 it's 1.25V.
> 
> I just tried 6000MHz 36-36-36-76 1.30v/1.30v with the XMP I profile as you suggested and it seems to last longer before throwing errors on HCI memtest.
> I noticed that going from XMP II to XMP I the Memory Controller voltage was set from 1.20v to Auto, and the auto setting goes to 1.26v for 5600MHz and goes to 1.36v for 6000MHz, so I just set it manually to 1.20v
> 
> I am going to try 1.35v/1.35v on the memories and see if it's stable at 6000MHz 36-36-36-76 with the XMP I profile.


Yea I have the exact same 5600 sticks as you do and I couldn’t get them stable at 6000 and stock timings. 
but 36-38-38-76 at 1.365v worked. They are on a 12400f so SA is locked to 0.935v and mem controller at auto which is 1.3v. No issues with it.


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2585434
> 
> Set: TWR= Auto
> Set: tPRPDEN=Auto
> Set: TWRPDEN= Auto
> Set: tCPDED=Auto
> 
> Use memtweakit settings, and copy into bios. Just Auto on the 4x settings.
> 
> 
> Disable fastboot in bios. (under timings)
> Good luck
> 
> Loading others CMO is often epic fail. Better to set them manually.


What mem modules use?
So crazy result. What cooling use on ram?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> What mem modules use?
> So crazy result. What cooling use on ram?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Green hynix a-die. Watercooling. 25-30c water.


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> I’m seeing so many 7600-8000 results out of Z690 boards that I’m not sure what to think anymore.


Right but with Raptor Lake or Alder Lake?

I've only seen a handful of people at 7800-8000 on ADL/690 but agree am seeing quite a few people with RL/690


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> Right but with Raptor Lake or Alder Lake?
> 
> I've only seen a handful of people at 7800-8000 on ADL/690 but agree am seeing quite a few people with RL/690


Both. Guy commented on BZ’s latest tweet apparently has 8000 working on his Dark with a 12900KS. But like, people had sick 12900K A-die tunes before RPL, so I’m not even all that surprised. By this point I don’t know what prevented me from getting a better result. Granted I didn’t test for more than 6 hours. I wasn’t in the mood to test for a week like I used to.


----------



## affxct

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about D5 tRAS now? I’m beginning to see everyone defaulting to CAS=RAS. So we’re officially not doing tRAS 28 anymore?


----------



## affxct

pipes said:


> on the Linus tech forum, a user said they were a-die...too bad, they were at a good price
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


6400C32 820A. 220 ish now. It is a gamble unless you’re getting them from a smaller retailer who would be willing to set aside an 820A from their warehouse for you. Do bear in mind though that these are basically bottom of the barrel ICs.


----------



## aznsniper911

nickolp1974 said:


> so who's done A die testing on a 4 dimm board(asus z790 results preferred), still curious to see if there worth it???


With my G.Skill 6400 CL 32 A die kits, I’m able to do 7800 on my z790 Extreme and z790 Godlike with 2x16gb. Working on trying to break this 8000 wall I’m facing however last night I found out thst I can do 4x16gb at 7200.


----------



## affxct

aznsniper911 said:


> With my G.Skill 6400 CL 32 A die kits, I’m able to do 7800 on my z790 Extreme and z790 Godlike with 2x16gb. Working on trying to break this 8000 wall I’m facing however last night I found out thst I can do 4x16gb at 7200.


This is obviously totally your call, but I’d highly suggest making a YT video. It would clear things up for A LOT of professional users who have been hating life on 2x16, and AFAIK, no one has even come close to 7200 on 4 sticks thus far.

Goes without saying, but you’d probably get a crap ton of views for your trouble.


----------



## aznsniper911

sulalin said:


> Does that count?
> View attachment 2585496


What’s the SP of your cpu? I think I might be hitting a MC wall!


----------



## sblantipodi

aznsniper911 said:


> With my G.Skill 6400 CL 32 A die kits, I’m able to do 7800 on my z790 Extreme and z790 Godlike with 2x16gb. Working on trying to break this 8000 wall I’m facing however last night I found out thst I can do 4x16gb at 7200.


I sincerely don't trust that you can do 7200 on 4x16GB xD


----------



## sugi0lover

I got direct Ram cooling kit and here is my experience to share at 8533 cl34 stable setup



Spoiler: Details



[Top view - Direct Ram Block and Ram Jackets]









[Bottom view - You can see there are coolant holes from ram block to one jacket]









[One jacket is kinda short, not enough to cover the whole side, but there is no ram module at that side, so no problem]









[I can easily feel the weight of this ram + jacket]









[ram block + ram jacket assembled]

















[used quick disconnector for easy usage]









[my first problem, ram can't be installed because of the interference of cpu block bracket]









[After grinding one cpu bracket, problem solved.
With direct cpu block, no problem since it's narrow]









[Finally, my current stable setup test~ 8533 cl34 (vdd 1.65, vddq 1.62v, tx 1.28, sa 1.35, mc 1.51, vpp 1.82v)
With the traditional water ram block, the max ram temp delta is like 7C from coolant temp.
This direct ram kit delta is 1C from coolant temp as you can see from the result below. awesome~
But it will not make unstable setup to stable since ram temp with traditional ram block is already good enough]


----------



## sulalin

aznsniper911 said:


> 你cpu的SP是多少？我想我可能會撞到 MC 牆！
> [/引用]
> Z690 APEX 2203BIOS 2020ME SP:97 MC SP 62~69 13900K QS


----------



## adolf512

How do i check if my dual rank g.skill kit is M-die or A-die? 

Only recently got them stable at 6400


----------



## ThatOneLance

Nizzen said:


> I have 4x
> 
> I have 4x team elite 5600 1.1v with no heat spreders. M-die and they are pretty good. 7200mhz pretty easy.


Looks like the "plus" and elite are just differentiated by an addon of heatspreaders.

Did you have to do any sort of "binning"/returning to get the M-die ICs? Obviously could change but the 'feature' of no heatsinks/rgb makes the sticks more fun. No clue how different they are to the general dell oem green sticks - perhaps someone got information on the PMIC of TG vs dell or some other random thing I can't think of.


----------



## chibi

newls1 said:


> ok, thank you. was hoping youd say use a pad cause its cleaner, but paste it is then!


I'd paste along the inner heatsink as well.


----------



## bhav

adolf512 said:


> How do i check if my dual rank g.skill kit is M-die or A-die?
> 
> Only recently got them stable at 6400


Normally taiphoon burner, but it no longer works with 2H22 Win 11.


----------



## morph.

Has anyone pushed 6400 m-die to 7200+ ideally on air, not on water stable? Curious to see some timings/voltages and secret sauces, please.


----------



## QXE

DDR5-8600 CL34 Geekbench 3 run. Insane score on the Z790 apex.


----------



## newls1

chibi said:


> I'd paste along the inner heatsink as well.
> View attachment 2585581


thank you, i will do it.


----------



## bigfootnz

@Nizzen @chibi both of you are using/used bitspower DDR5 block. Did you used on both side 1mm (bitspower design) pads or not? If I use on both side 1mm pads then RAM is not parallel with heatsink








But if I use on chips side 0.5mm and other side 1mm then RAM is parallel with heatsink.








If I'm not wrong if heatsinks are not parallel with RAM then maybe even block will not sit properly on heatsinks due to heatsinks not being strait when ram is inserted in motherboard.


----------



## adolf512

bhav said:


> Normally taiphoon burner, but it no longer works with 2H22 Win 11.


I don't think it tells me if i have A-die or M-die










I did check the ram sticks and found the following (ending in A for some reason)

OR48KRS821A


----------



## bscool

adolf512 said:


> I don't think it tells me if i have A-die or M-die
> 
> View attachment 2585588
> 
> 
> I did check the ram sticks and found the following (ending in A for some reason)
> 
> OR48KRS821A


That is A die

Gskill
Lot Code
-S830A = Micron 16Gbit A-Die ( Q1 )
-S82*A = Hynix 16Gbit A-Die
-S82*M = Hynix 16Gbit M-Die
-S810B = Samsung 16Gbit B-Die ( Q1 )

More info on other manufactures in the IC section

[Sammelthread] - DDR5 Info- & Laberthread


----------



## Nizzen

bigfootnz said:


> @Nizzen @chibi both of you are using/used bitspower DDR5 block. Did you used on both side 1mm (bitspower design) pads or not? If I use on both side 1mm pads then RAM is not parallel with heatsink
> View attachment 2585587
> 
> 
> But if I use on chips side 0.5mm and other side 1mm then RAM is parallel with heatsink.
> View attachment 2585586
> 
> 
> If I'm not wrong if heatsinks are not parallel with RAM then maybe even block will not sit properly on heatsinks due to heatsinks not being strait when ram is inserted in motherboard.


I use 0,5 in the front and 1,5 on the back. 
On the back I'm using 2 squares as support. Not using full lenght here.


----------



## bigfootnz

Nizzen said:


> I use 0,5 in the front and 1,5 on the back.
> On the back I'm using 2 squares as support. Not using full lenght here.


Are you putting supporting pads on red or green line. Thanks









When you pulling out RAM from the motherboard, they do not wiggle between heatsinks?


----------



## adolf512

bscool said:


> That is A die
> 
> Gskill
> Lot Code
> -S830A = Micron 16Gbit A-Die ( Q1 )
> -S82*A = Hynix 16Gbit A-Die
> -S82*M = Hynix 16Gbit M-Die
> -S810B = Samsung 16Gbit B-Die ( Q1 )
> 
> More info on other manufactures in the IC section
> 
> [Sammelthread] - DDR5 Info- & Laberthread


That might explain why i couldn't tighten timings as much as i expected.

I assumed i would get M-die buying that kit, it was the cheapest 6000 CL32 64GiB kit i could find.


----------



## Dodgexander

Looking at all the prices of definite a die kits and from strictly a timing perspective I think this is probably a bad time to be buying. Especially if you can't afford the top bins. There has already been a large reduction in price over the past month and most of the 7200 or less kits will be binned poorly compared to the 7600 and 7800 ones.

I don't think it will be long now to see the 7200 kits at 250 and the top bins at 350.

The team 7200 kit was 400 on Amazon last week and now you can buy the vcolor 7800 for almost the same price.

What they don't tell you is you will need some good airflow for these 1.4v+ kits. Perhaps even direct airflow just to stress test at XMP. I haven't tested Corsair a die yet but everyone else seems to have ignored the fact these get so much hotter at higher voltage and have negated to improve their cooling.. sharing the same heatsinks as low voltage 5600 models.


Finally DDR5 is becoming more affordable at least..


----------



## rs199208

chibi said:


> Use paste like you would with IHS and heatsink/block.





chibi said:


> I'd paste along the inner heatsink as well.
> View attachment 2585581


interesting! i have a lot of paste laying around. which paste would be optimal. i have many liquid metal, artic silver. prob some kryonaut left too.
separate question: i stripped out the screw top on a couple by over tightening. what are my screw replacement options? i considered buying another kit anyway since ill have more than one ram kit to play with. though i'm also interested in trying other heatsinks in conjunction with the bitspower block.
edit: i suppose liquid metal is out of the question because the heatsinks are aluminum.


----------



## rs199208

deleted because i didn't realize it was a SC kit lol!


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

QXE said:


> View attachment 2585583
> 
> DDR5-8600 CL34 Geekbench 3 run. Insane score on the Z790 apex.


What yre you using for Voltages and Sticks? Where are the Temps?


----------



## sugi0lover

rs199208 said:


> where can i order this kit? thanks!











Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper


Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper




www.supercoolcomputer.com





But it is hard to get since it's out of stock most of time.


----------



## rs199208

sugi0lover said:


> Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper
> 
> 
> Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it is hard to get since it's out of stock most of time.


oh lol! i thought that was prob SC. yeah, he hasn't answered me in awhile.


----------



## newls1

bigfootnz said:


> @Nizzen @chibi both of you are using/used bitspower DDR5 block. Did you used on both side 1mm (bitspower design) pads or not? If I use on both side 1mm pads then RAM is not parallel with heatsink
> View attachment 2585587
> 
> 
> But if I use on chips side 0.5mm and other side 1mm then RAM is parallel with heatsink.
> View attachment 2585586
> 
> 
> If I'm not wrong if heatsinks are not parallel with RAM then maybe even block will not sit properly on heatsinks due to heatsinks not being strait when ram is inserted in motherboard.


Oh boy, I hope they chime in with an answer too as im a few hours away from installing mine. Thank you for heads up


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> Oh boy, I hope they chime in with an answer too as im a few hours away from installing mine. Thank you for heads up


i noticed that too on one heatsink. left it as is, prob why i tried over tightening lol!


----------



## newls1

im not having high hopes for this ram cooling setup now......


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> im not having high hopes for this ram cooling setup now......


kept hub temps to 32C and lower in tm5/absolute for me.


----------



## tibcsi0407

sugi0lover said:


> I got direct Ram cooling kit and here is my experience to share at 8533 cl34 stable setup
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Details
> 
> 
> 
> [Top view - Direct Ram Block and Ram Jackets]
> View attachment 2585531
> 
> 
> [Bottom view - You can see there are coolant holes from ram block to one jacket]
> View attachment 2585532
> 
> 
> [One jacket is kinda short, not enough to cover the whole side, but there is no ram module at that side, so no problem]
> View attachment 2585535
> 
> 
> [I can easily feel the weight of this ram + jacket]
> View attachment 2585536
> 
> 
> [ram block + ram jacket assembled]
> View attachment 2585537
> 
> View attachment 2585538
> 
> 
> [used quick disconnector for easy usage]
> View attachment 2585539
> 
> 
> [my first problem, ram can't be installed because of the interference of cpu ram bracket]
> View attachment 2585540
> 
> 
> [After grinding one cpu bracket, problem solved.
> With direct cpu block, no problem since it's narrow]
> View attachment 2585541
> 
> 
> [Finally, my current stable setup test~ 8533 cl34 (vdd 1.65, vddq 1.62v, tx 1.28, sa 1.35, mc 1.51, vpp 1.82v)
> With the traditional water ram block, the max ram temp delta is like 7C from coolant temp.
> This direct ram kit delta is 1C from coolant temp as you can see from the result below. awesome~
> But it will not make unstable setup to stable since ram temp with traditional ram block is already good enough]
> View attachment 2585542


Amazing, as always!


----------



## rs199208

PPCS sold out of the 2 dimm kit. bitspower wants $137 to ship a new kit.
my kit is fine still, i just can't take the heatsinks apart without losing the ability to tighten them again lol!

wonder if these screws will work? ill pick these up with next ppcs order.








Bitspower Universal RAM Cover II Aluminum For Bitspower DIMM Water Block Only


Bitspower Universal RAM Cover II Aluminum For Bitspower DIMM Water Block Only




www.performance-pcs.com


----------



## newls1

rs199208 said:


> PPCS sold out of the 2 dimm kit. bitspower wants $137 to ship a new kit.
> my kit is fine still, i just can't take the heatsinks apart without losing the ability to tighten them again lol!
> 
> wonder if these screws will work? ill pick these up with next ppcs order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitspower Universal RAM Cover II Aluminum For Bitspower DIMM Water Block Only
> 
> 
> Bitspower Universal RAM Cover II Aluminum For Bitspower DIMM Water Block Only
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performance-pcs.com


that should be exactly what you need, if i was to guess


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> that should be exactly what you need, if i was to guess


bitspower shows differant screws in instructions. they are Chicago screws so maybe i can find some to match at hardware stores. another option would be to pick up the 4 dimm ddr5 waterblock since i want extra heatsinks anyway. who knows maybe the 4 dimm block will come in handy?


----------



## rs199208

the 4 dimm block might even have better thermals vs the 2 dimm on just 2 sticks?


----------



## BenchAndGames

Have a question whats the best tool to test the RAM ? 
I have a licenced version of MemTestPro 7.0 and I did 1000% coverage

But than I see HCI MemTest here on screenshoot with a nice interface more like friendly user, so what is the difference or how can I obtain this version ? or they are the same ?

Anyway is MemTestPro 7.0 better than for example TM5 that I see is for free ?


----------



## QXE

jonny.brechbuehl said:


> What yre you using for Voltages and Sticks? Where are the Temps?


Voltages were 1.65 VDD, 1.6 VDDQ, 1.32 IVR CPU VDDQ, 1.4 MC voltage, and 1.2 SA. CPU is on a loop and just a fan on the ram.


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> Green hynix a-die. Watercooling. 25-30c water.


Have you a serial for find the precise model?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> that should be exactly what you need, if i was to guess


just ordered the 4 dimm kit with a extra pack of pads. ill try the bigger block to see if it can get better temps than the 2 dimm.


----------



## gtz

bhav said:


> Normally taiphoon burner, but it no longer works with 2H22 Win 11.


MS automatically turns on memory integrity with the newest update. Try disabling it, might work.


----------



## rs199208

gtz said:


> MS automatically turns on memory integrity with the newest update. Try disabling it, might work.


doesn't work on my 11 either. i have all that stuff disabled.


----------



## chibi

rs199208 said:


> interesting! i have a lot of paste laying around. which paste would be optimal. i have many liquid metal, artic silver. prob some kryonaut left too.
> separate question: i stripped out the screw top on a couple by over tightening. what are my screw replacement options? i considered buying another kit anyway since ill have more than one ram kit to play with. though i'm also interested in trying other heatsinks in conjunction with the bitspower block.
> edit: i suppose liquid metal is out of the question because the heatsinks are aluminum.


Any tim will do, non conductive of course!


----------



## motivman

Unify-X isn't too bad if you get a good memory kit. I first got team group ddr5 7600 kit which would not even boot up on my unify-x. Visited my local microcenter and got a gskill ddr5-7600 kit, and can boot 7800 no problem. haven't run tm5 yet, so not sure If I can ever get this stable on the Unify-X. This gives me hope that I would be able to run 8000 no problem on my Z790 Apex when it gets here.


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> I use 0,5 in the front and 1,5 on the back.
> On the back I'm using 2 squares as support. Not using full lenght here.


0.5mm pads for PMIC too?


----------



## newls1

motivman said:


> Unify-X isn't too bad if you get a good memory kit. I first got team group ddr5 7600 kit which would not even boot up on my unify-x. Visited my local microcenter and got a gskill ddr5-7600 kit, and can boot 7800 no problem. haven't run tm5 yet, so not sure If I can ever get this stable on the Unify-X. This gives me hope that I would be able to run 8000 no problem on my Z790 Apex when it gets here.


you could prob run a concrete slab @ 8000mhz on the z790 apex. Really nice to see your unify x booted 7800. Mine will not, and cant understand why some do and some dont


----------



## bhav

gtz said:


> MS automatically turns on memory integrity with the newest update. Try disabling it, might work.


Its not that, its already off, and taiphoon said in their release notes that is is no longer working with 2H22 as well, also none of their solutions / workarounds work either.


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> you could prob run a concrete slab @ 8000mhz on the z790 apex. Really nice to see your unify x booted 7800. Mine will not, and cant understand why some do and some dont


I think I got really lucky with this gskill kit. This is the second one, the first one ran XMP but will not boot 7800 no matter what I tried. The team group one was not even stable at 7400 with xmp settings. this one boots 7800, but I have to change timings to 38-48-48 to get it to boot.


----------



## dante`afk

The super cool ram block is the best, but inevitably you will always have water on the sticks if you disassemble them to install new ones


----------



## CptSpig

dante`afk said:


> The super cool ram block is the best, but inevitably you will always have water on the sticks if you disassemble them to install new ones


You need to flip the 0-ring when changing dimms no water. Make sure you tighten the top allen bolts good.


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> Green hynix a-die. Watercooling. 25-30c water.


What's model is?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bsdinis

tubs2x4 said:


> Yea I have the exact same 5600 sticks as you do and I couldn’t get them stable at 6000 and stock timings.
> but 36-38-38-76 at 1.365v worked. They are on a 12400f so SA is locked to 0.935v and mem controller at auto which is 1.3v. No issues with it.


6000MHz 36-36-36-76 1.35v VDD 1.35v VDDQ passes HCI memtest, but does not pass OCCT even with 1.25v IMC.
I give up, I'll just run them at their full stock XMP profile.


----------



## tubs2x4

bsdinis said:


> 6000MHz 36-36-36-76 1.35v VDD 1.35v VDDQ passes HCI memtest, but does not pass OCCT even with 1.25v IMC.
> I give up, I'll just run them at their full stock XMP profile.


Ok. Before you quit I would leave settings how you passed memtest but just change the primary timings 36-38-38-76. Likely pass for you but I know how you feel ha… it does get annoying constantly having to tweak ****. That’s why I don’t use mem tests for nothing. I just run the programs I use and if no crashes good. Ha


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> 0.5mm pads for PMIC too?


1mm on pmic
This is for dimm without rgb.


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> What's model is?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Thunderclap

aznsniper911 said:


> ...however last night I found out thst I can do 4x16gb at 7200.


This is seriously impressive! 

What motherboard and RAM kits are you using? XMP or tuned? Is it just boot stable or have you done any actual stability testing? Sorry for asking so many questions  it's just seeing these kinda speeds with 4x16 on DDR5 is kinda nuts.


----------



## narukun

bscool said:


> These should work with 12/13th gen _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Newer memtweakit MemTweakIt_20221101.zip



Thank you! that one works


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2585679


Thanks for info, I can find on eBay and AliExpress 300 € 2x16GB
€ 183,59 10%di SCONTO | Per Hynix SK 16GB muslimba DDR5 5600B desktop 16G


https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGTwJtL



Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Simkin

G.skill 6800 is a-die ?


----------



## CptSpig

pipes said:


> Thanks for info, I can find on eBay and AliExpress 300 € 2x16GB
> € 183,59 10%di SCONTO | Per Hynix SK 16GB muslimba DDR5 5600B desktop 16G
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGTwJtL
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Cheaper here


----------



## Dodgexander

pipes said:


> Thanks for info, I can find on eBay and AliExpress 300 € 2x16GB
> € 183,59 10%di SCONTO | Per Hynix SK 16GB muslimba DDR5 5600B desktop 16G
> 
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGTwJtL
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


We went through this a few pages back. Beware that you are not guaranteed a good bin buying these.
He (and another member) paid $500 for a good binned used kit from a well-known overclocker who tested many.
I too chased the carrot like you.


----------



## J_Lab4645

Nisa said:


> Can you upload bios profile file?


All my settings for memory are on the pic I uploaded. The Cpu is all on default (Auto).


----------



## J_Lab4645

Carillo said:


> Compared another IMC to mine yesterday. Mine is 73 with new bios and the new one is 81... Can confirm the 81 SP IMC is horrible compared to mine 73. Could not do 8400 stable on my Apex. Tried everything, different bioses, sticks and so on, no way. Popped in the old one 73, no problem with 8400 8533 and 8600 again. Maybe i dont know what i´m doing , but this is my findings regarding this imc number.


My 12900K, IMC Sp=55, My 13900K, IMC Sp= 63. 
12900K boots 8000mhz benchable not stable. 13900K won't boot 8000mhz. 
All Cpu's @ default (Auto) No overclock or cache OC so here's where the master RAM oc's are laughing at us.


----------



## z390e

Dodgexander said:


> We went through this a few pages back. Beware that you are not guaranteed a good bin buying these.
> He (and another member) paid $500 for a good binned used kit from a well-known overclocker who tested many.
> I too chased the carrot like you.


correct, this was the thread






FS: Binned DDR5 A Die Hynix


I have 7 kits, binned from 100 sticks. The ones that made the cut are all about the same in terms of OC (a couple dimms out 100 were awful). There are two types of PMIC, crackable and non. These sticks are all crackable, and will work without limits as long as your motherboard bios supports it. (...



community.hwbot.org


----------



## sulalin

adolf512 said:


> I don't think it tells me if i have A-die or M-die
> 
> View attachment 2585588
> 
> 
> I did check the ram sticks and found the following (ending in A for some reason)
> 
> OR48KRS821A











If it shows correct then you have MDIE in the picture because ADIE is all X018 and MDIE is almost all X014


----------



## spiroh

Do we happen to know what die the Corsair dominator 7200 c34's are?


----------



## bianbao.dev

spiroh said:


> Do we happen to know what die the Corsair dominator 7200 c34's are?


a-die


----------



## bigfootnz

@newls1 I think that I've found best pads size for this heat sinks. Please ignore ram itself, this was some 8GB DDR5 module which I use for testing this is reason for only 4 chips on it.


----------



## KedarWolf

Any other way to tell if DDR5 is A-Die or M-Die than Typhoon Burner?

It shows Unknown on my A-Die and I'm waiting to get my V-Color 6600 M-Die to check that.


----------



## rs199208

KedarWolf said:


> Any other way to tell if DDR5 is A-Die or M-Die than Typhoon Burner?
> 
> It shows Unknown on my A-Die and I'm waiting to get my V-Color 6600 M-Die to check that.


82*M=M die
82*A=A die


----------



## rulik006

KedarWolf said:


> Any other way to tell if DDR5 is A-Die or M-Die than Typhoon Burner?
> 
> It shows Unknown on my A-Die and I'm waiting to get my V-Color 6600 M-Die to check that.


Hwinfo64


----------



## KedarWolf

rulik006 said:


> Hwinfo64
> View attachment 2585768


HWInfo shows Stepping Unknown on my A-Die but I'll check my M-Die when I get it in a week or so.


----------



## Agent-A01

Boy these trident z5 heatsinks are thin, no more than 1/8th of an inch. Really light too.
The old trident Z royals had way more mass in them.

Anyways, I put some high W/mk pads in place and they are definitely helping remove heat out of the memory.

PMIC temp dropped 7-8c too. I ran 3x40mm fans at full speed to compare before and after.

Probably worth going to a different heatsink like icemans.


----------



## acoustic

G.Skill should be slapped for the atrocious heatsink design for DDR5.


----------



## newls1

bigfootnz said:


> @newls1 I think that I've found best pads size for this heat sinks. Please ignore ram itself, this was some 8GB DDR5 module which I use for testing this is reason for only 4 chips on it.
> 
> View attachment 2585762
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585761


We did same thing  .. I finished my loop just now and results are quite good. The block in person is WAYYYYY SMALLERthen i thought it would be. Its like a toy! Anyways, with how my case is (Core X9) I had to install the block loosely on top of the ram and plug it all in as 1 piece very carefully, then tighten everything up. I used thermal paste to fill voids and I used .5mm pads up top as i didnt have enough paste, but seemd to do the trick just fine. temps are way lower now.


----------



## KedarWolf

rs199208 said:


> 82*M=M die
> 82*A=A die
> View attachment 2585767


No such label on my RAM, just checked.


----------



## chibi

@bigfootnz @newls1 nice work fellas. I’m about to join the club too. Just received my kit from PPCs. 👍


----------



## morph.

Agent-A01 said:


> View attachment 2585770
> 
> 
> Boy these trident z5 heatsinks are thin, no more than 1/8th of an inch. Really light too.
> The old trident Z royals had way more mass in them.
> 
> Anyways, I put some high W/mk pads in place and they are definitely helping remove heat out of the memory.
> 
> PMIC temp dropped 7-8c too. I ran 3x40mm fans at full speed to compare before and after.
> 
> Probably worth going to a different heatsink like icemans.


Recall what thickness pads you used? 0.5mm on ic's and 1mm on PMIC or 1.5mm?

Also how does one take apart the Z5 spreaders?


----------



## morph.

acoustic said:


> G.Skill should be slapped for the atrocious heatsink design for DDR5.


instead, they got design awards for it lol


----------



## newls1

morph. said:


> instead, they got design awards for it lol


sad isnt it?! Todays pc hardware world is all about LOOKS over Function


----------



## Agent-A01

morph. said:


> Recall what thickness pads you used? 0.5mm on ic's and 1mm on PMIC or 1.5mm?


It's probably a little more complicated than an aftermarket heatsink but I used the following for the stock heatsink:

Starting on the side without ICs > I used 1mm pads where PMIC and the memory ICs would be. Where there was empty space I used 1mm adhesive tape.

On the IC side > I used 1.5mm on the memory ICs, 2mm adhesive tape in the recessed area(heat sink has a channel that's recessed .5mm in the middle and below PMIC) and 2mm pad where PMIC is.

Gotta be careful to trim the size's of the adhesive/pads so they do not sit on top of the LEDs or random resistors though.



newls1 said:


> sad isnt it?! Todays pc hardware world is all about LOOKS over Function


It's fine for stock XMP but if you want to max the kit out it is not enough for that.


----------



## morph.

newls1 said:


> sad isnt it?! Todays pc hardware world is all about LOOKS over Function


I think it was just more a cost-cutting thing, probably using aluminium heat spreaders hence the light weight of it and I've always wondered why they never padded the PMIC some argue it's not required and will only increase heat soak on the heat spreaders to the IC's as the PMIC operating temperature level shouldn't impact the IC's cooling. Some believe it works better with it padded I have nfi which route to go lol..


----------



## morph.

Agent-A01 said:


> It's probably a little more complicated than an aftermarket heatsink but I used the following for the stock heatsink:
> 
> Starting on the side without ICs > I used 1mm pads where PMIC and the memory ICs would be. Where there was empty space I used 1mm adhesive tape.
> 
> On the IC side > I used 1.5mm on the memory ICs, 2mm adhesive tape in the recessed area(heat sink has a channel that's recessed .5mm in the middle and below PMIC) and 2mm pad where PMIC is.
> 
> Gotta be careful to trim the size's of the adhesive/pads so they do not sit on top of the LEDs or random resistors though.
> 
> 
> 
> It's fine for stock XMP but if you want to max the kit out it is not enough for that.


Nice thanks! Why not just use pads on the back side instead of the adhesive tape to help try to draw some of the heat from the PCB to the other side of the heat spreaders or was your adhesive tape thermally rated too?

Oh and how did you pull it apart


----------



## Agent-A01

morph. said:


> Nice thanks! Why not just use pads on the back side instead of the adhesive tape to help try to draw some of the heat from the PCB to the other side of the heat spreaders or was your adhesive tape thermally rated too?
> 
> Oh and how did you pull it apart


Pads directly on the opposite of the heat generating components is plenty. I measured 33c max with infrared on the bare PCB while running stress tests so additional pads won't help.

The 3M tape I used is for LEDs and heatsinks so they do have some thermal transfer ability, albeit not a lot I imagine.

As for removal, I used a heat gun until the heatsink was too hot to touch.Then I used a spudger to pry in the middle of the PCB and heat-spreader.
Removal only took a few mins.


----------



## KedarWolf

Agent-A01 said:


> Pads directly on the opposite of the heat generating components is plenty. I measured 33c max with infrared on the bare PCB while running stress tests so additional pads won't help.
> 
> The 3M tape I used is for LEDs and heatsinks so they do have some thermal transfer ability, albeit not a lot I imagine.
> 
> As for removal, I used a heat gun until the heatsink was too hot to touch.Then I used a spudger to pry in the middle of the PCB and heat-spreader.
> Removal only took a few mins.


If I did it I think my hair blow dryer would work well. 

I might get all nickel Iceman Cooler heatsinks, but not going to water cool them I don't think.



https://www.icemancooler.com/page84.html?product_id=211&_l=en


----------



## pcbuildingmaniac

Hey, I’m planning on getting an i9 13900k and 7200 GSkill 7200MHZ CL34 RAM. What is a decent motherboard that will help me run the RAM at 7200MHZ without any problems? I am thinking of a Z790 MSI Tomahawk but I am not sure. I would appreciate some suggestions.


----------



## Agent-A01

KedarWolf said:


> If I did it I think my hair blow dryer would work well.
> 
> I might get all nickel Iceman Cooler heatsinks, but not going to water cool them I don't think.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.icemancooler.com/page84.html?product_id=211&_l=en


Hair dryer on max should work, just might take a little longer.

And yes, I don't want to fool with water cooling right now.
I like being able to pull board out without having to drain and adding ram cooling will just complicate that; testing bad z690 apex with multiple boards would have been way more annoying with ram cooling lol

I did order this just now, will take a couple weeks to get here(pre-order).









Bykski DDR5 Memory Copper Air Cooling Armor (B-MRC-X )


The Bykski Memory Armor heatsink is the perfect solution for your high-performance cooling needs. One side features a dragon-scale fin texture which increases the contact area of red copper to air providing superior heat dissipation. The other side is a mirror plating offering a sleek look. With...




www.primochill.com





Looks like a better iceman heatsink.



pcbuildingmaniac said:


> Hey, I’m planning on getting an i9 13900k and 7200 GSkill 7200MHZ CL34 RAM. What is a decent motherboard that will help me run the RAM at 7200MHZ without any problems? I am thinking of a Z790 MSI Tomahawk but I am not sure. I would appreciate some suggestions.


Pick a board with features that you want/need and check if that memory kit is in the QVL. Most Z790 boards should have no problems with 7200.


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> G.Skill should be slapped for the atrocious heatsink design for DDR5.


stop trashing gskill please.
gskill is great, spd temp is nothing and definitely wont affect dram ic temp, plus pmic likes higher temp!
gskill has proven 10000mhz too easy, it is 100% your fault if you cant oc gskill ram stick well.


----------



## Dodgexander

It's not just gskill with the poor heatsinks. Don't think any manufacturer has changed or improved heatsink design compared to lower volt kits. Corsair only seen to do better because they coincidentally had already good cooling before.

I don't understand their thinking shipping sticks that run at 1.45v XMP with the same heatsinks as ones running at 1.2v. I can only assume they were testing these in open benches with 4 slot boards.

Tightly packed together the faster kits aren't even stable using XMP settings without some direct airflow.

It's about time they come up with better heatsinks. It's stupid having to fit after market ones.

Oh and gskill only hit 1000 with a single dimm. They also used very high volts just for benching. There is no way in hell they'd survive those volts in tm5 without water or maybe even LN2.


----------



## zachy79

Simkin said:


> G.skill 6800 is a-die ?


I ordered lately and yes it is or should be.


----------



## adolf512

sulalin said:


> View attachment 2585750
> 
> If it shows correct then you have MDIE in the picture because ADIE is all X018 and MDIE is almost all X014


So the physical serial number shows that i have A-die while typhon burner shows M-die?


----------



## themad

Sorry, del. Just saw the answer I was looking for.


----------



## jeiselramos

waiting for the gskill 7600C36 and z790 Apex this is my daily
13900K 5.6/4.4/5.0 1.26LLC5
7200 32-42-42-28 2T
1.51 VDD/VDDQ
SA OFFSET +0.05
CPU VDDQ 1.325
CPU VDD2 1.4


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> stop trashing gskill please.
> gskill is great, spd temp is nothing and definitely wont affect dram ic temp, plus pmic likes higher temp!
> gskill has proven 10000mhz too easy, it is 100% your fault if you cant oc gskill ram stick well.


😂Thin ass heatspreaders that are lower quality than anyone else on the market is not "great". No thermal pad on the PMIC is lazy.

Stop defending bad practices.


----------



## centvalny

Test BIOS for Maximus Z790 Apex | bianbao.dev







bianbao.dev




Apex bios with no more vdroop on green stick a-die with renesas pmic.


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Test BIOS for Maximus Z790 Apex | bianbao.dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bianbao.dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex bios with no more vdroop on green stick a-die with renesas pmic.


***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@bianbao.dev 
Nice job! <3
Love from Norway


----------



## opt33

Dodgexander said:


> It's not just gskill with the poor heatsinks. Don't think any manufacturer has changed or improved heatsink design compared to lower volt kits. Corsair only seen to do better because they coincidentally had already good cooling before.
> 
> I don't understand their thinking shipping sticks that run at 1.45v XMP with the same heatsinks as ones running at 1.2v. I can only assume they were testing these in open benches with 4 slot boards.
> 
> Tightly packed together the faster kits aren't even stable using XMP settings without some direct airflow.
> 
> It's about time they come up with better heatsinks. It's stupid having to fit after market ones.
> 
> Oh and gskill only hit 1000 with a single dimm. They also used very high volts just for benching. There is no way in hell they'd survive those volts in tm5 without water or maybe even LN2.


I took asdkj1740 comment as sarcasm (10k OC, and he "thumbed up' acoustic slapping gskill comment), but agree these higher volt Adie kits need higher surface area heatsinks and higher thermal conductance adhesive pads so poor heat transfer to heatsink not limiting factor. Even current heatsinks effectiveness are limited by low thermal conductance tape. And 1.5v instantly causing system freeze/bsod from temps, heatsink hasnt had time to do anything, that will only be fixed by better thermal interface.

I have aftermarket heatsinks, higher thermal conductance pads/adhesive pads coming. First just exchanging thermal tape with higher thermal conductance adhesive pad on TG kit, if that allows enough voltage for my needs will use that, if not then switch heatsink. Being locked at 1.44volts on 1.4 volt kit (soon to be 1.45 kits) from temp errors with ram fan is ridiculous. Still wondering if 1.45v kits will come with higher conductance pad/tape.


----------



## Carillo

just started testing 0040 bios with z790 Apex and can confirm the vdroop is gone! 1.55 vdd/q in bios ended up being 1.56 in windows ! Looks like the green sticks will really shine with this fix / mod! Thanks @bianbao.dev , keep up the great work !


----------



## skullbringer

what's the issue with just setting 50 mV more with previous bios? I don't the old bios caused droop, but the vid table of the pmic was simply offset by 50 mV, so 1600 really set 1550 and thus you got 1550 - droop.

with new bios by disabling the offset we lose control between 1.435 and 1.47 V, so you can't run greenstick at 1.45 V at all. so like why not just stick with the old way?


----------



## centvalny

skullbringer said:


> .
> 
> with new bios by disabling the offset we lose control between 1.435 and 1.47 V, so you can't run greenstick at 1.45 V at all. so like why not just stick with the old way?


Did you try those green sticks with Apex 790?


----------



## asdkj1740

acoustic said:


> 😂Thin ass heatspreaders that are lower quality than anyone else on the market is not "great". No thermal pad on the PMIC is lazy.
> 
> Stop defending bad practices.


IT JUST WORKSSSSS.
3636e no.1

the winter is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## asdkj1740

i was thinking the "vdroop" thing of pmic reported by hwinfo64 was just caused by the problem of software "reading" ...


----------



## konawolv

morph. said:


> Nice thanks! Why not just use pads on the back side instead of the adhesive tape to help try to draw some of the heat from the PCB to the other side of the heat spreaders or was your adhesive tape thermally rated too?
> 
> Oh and how did you pull it apart


Hello, 

What voltage are you using on your M-Die kit to get it to 7200 mhz. Also, what type of throughput and latency are getting out of gear 2 at those settings?

I may venture into trying to hit that freq on AM5/7900x with its version of gear 2.


----------



## skullbringer

requesting support here, please...

*z790 hero 0088 *
ddr5 7800
stable in ycruncher VST, tm5 [email protected], karhu











*z790 apex 0088*
ddr5 7800
unstable in ycruncher VST, tm5 [email protected] and karhu bsod










same cpu: 13900KF, SP MC 79
same dimms: hynix a-die oem green sticks
same slots: better stick in channel a, worse stick in channel b
same 120 mm at 12V for cooling on top of modules without physical contact to dimms
identical timings from what I can tell


one thing I noticed, apex sets different voltages for mc voltage and vddq tx on auto. but they are not stable on auto and also not stable when set to same values as the hero sets on auto 

so like is my z790 apex broken? 😥


----------



## z390e

[FS] Intel 13600K & Hynix A-Die


Up for sale 2 items that I got quite recently. 1. Intel Core i5 13600K The very same CPU I used for recent results. P-Cores ranging between 7.3 and 7.6GHz in different tests and E-Cores up to 5.9GHz 1.35v. Just check out my recent results for accurate speeds. SOLD 2. 2x16GB Hynix A-Die 5600MHz 2 ...



community.hwbot.org





Luumi has a couple of binned A die sticks for sale


----------



## pipes

CptSpig said:


> Più economico qui
> [/CITAZIONE]
> 
> io can understand the shipping price


----------



## CptSpig

Use the shipping agent. They will give you the best and fastest shipping method.


----------



## pipes

you tell this Logistics freight inquiry- Superbuy


----------



## CptSpig

pipes said:


> you tell this Logistics freight inquiry- Superbuy
> View attachment 2585875


Shipping Expert below.


----------



## Muut

*- Z790 APEX 8200 c36-48-48-52* : New Daily 
*- CPU *: 13900KF @ 5.6ghz / 4.4ghz / 4.9ghz

*SP* : 101 / 112 / 81
*IMC SP *: 70 - 72

*- DDR5* : 2x16 Teamgroup Delta RGB 7200

*VDD : *1.57v
*VDDQ : *1.55v
*IMC Voltage : *1.5v
*VDDQ TX : *1.45v
*System Agent : *1.37v



















Stock HS with 140mm Arctic P14 in front of them.

Just a quick screenshot with an attempt with* VDDQ TX @ 1.4v* instead of *1.45v* :


----------



## pipes

CptSpig said:


> Shipping Expert below.


I can't find the product in the shipping list, would I find the products already purchased or the ones I want to buy?


----------



## mattxx88

skullbringer said:


> requesting support here, please...
> 
> *z790 hero 0088 *
> ddr5 7800
> stable in ycruncher VST, tm5 [email protected], karhu
> 
> View attachment 2585853
> 
> 
> 
> *z790 apex 0088*
> ddr5 7800
> unstable in ycruncher VST, tm5 [email protected] and karhu bsod
> 
> View attachment 2585854
> 
> 
> same cpu: 13900KF, SP MC 79
> same dimms: hynix a-die oem green sticks
> same slots: better stick in channel a, worse stick in channel b
> same 120 mm at 12V for cooling on top of modules without physical contact to dimms
> identical timings from what I can tell
> 
> 
> one thing I noticed, apex sets different voltages for mc voltage and vddq tx on auto. but they are not stable on auto and also not stable when set to same values as the hero sets on auto
> 
> so like is my z790 apex broken? 😥


Did you set the whole packet of timings in one shot?
Maybe try first primaries, reboot, secondary and so on


----------



## mattxx88

pipes said:


> I can't find the product in the shipping list, would I find the products already purchased or the ones I want to buy?


I pmed you, cannot understand why you simply don't buy one of mine 8 sticks, 150 each and you save time, fees, and bin process, all can do 8000+ 😅


----------



## rulik006

A-die spotted in Flare X5 6000c30 in two kits of november batch
looking like m-die are going to have less volume or EOL


----------



## berglake7

pcbuildingmaniac said:


> Hey, I’m planning on getting an i9 13900k and 7200 GSkill 7200MHZ CL34 RAM. What is a decent motherboard that will help me run the RAM at 7200MHZ without any problems? I am thinking of a Z790 MSI Tomahawk but I am not sure. I would appreciate some suggestions.


 I run that kit of ram at 7200 Mhz with Maximus Z790 Hero with no problem


----------



## Dodgexander

mattxx88 said:


> I pmed you, cannot understand why you simply don't buy one of mine 8 sticks, 150 each and you save time, fees, and bin process, all can do 8000+ 😅


Where's your sellers thread?


----------



## CptSpig

pipes said:


> I can't find the product in the shipping list, would I find the products already purchased or the ones I want to buy?


You need to purchase the product first and they will get ti to the warehouse. Once in the warehouse you will select the shipping.


----------



## mattxx88

Dodgexander said:


> Where's your sellers thread?


I'm in eu, cekxx88 on ebay
I think for you in USA is better to go direct from china


----------



## tubs2x4

Muut said:


> *- Z790 APEX 8200 c36-48-48-52* : New Daily
> *- CPU *: 13900KF @ 5.6ghz / 4.4ghz / 4.9ghz
> 
> *SP* : 101 / 112 / 81
> *IMC SP *: 70 - 72
> 
> *- DDR5* : 2x16 Teamgroup Delta RGB 7200
> 
> *VDD : *1.57v
> *VDDQ : *1.55v
> *IMC Voltage : *1.5v
> *VDDQ TX : *1.45v
> *System Agent : *1.37v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585879
> 
> 
> Stock HS with 140mm Arctic P14 in front of them.
> 
> Just a quick screenshot with an attempt with* VDDQ TX @ 1.4v* instead of *1.45v* :


What’s with the 54 latency? Think at that speed you be under 50ns for sure. Or is that the cpu lagging?


----------



## energie80

I got better latency at 7600 and same bandwidth


----------



## TraumatikOC

berglake7 said:


> I run that kit of ram at 7200 Mhz with Maximus Z790 Hero with no problem


Same here but 7600 stable , 7800 is tricky for mine ( havent tried again )


----------



## Muut

tubs2x4 said:


> What’s with the 54 latency? Think at that speed you be under 50ns for sure. Or is that the cpu lagging?


i had all the other programs open in the background you can see on the screenshot above + some timings are a bit loose, trefi not maxed out, TRFC probably a bit high still. Also RTL a bit high due to high voltages. 

But that is a daily profile, not a maxed out profile. Overall raptor lake had an increase in latency compared to alder lake. I had 46ns at 7200 c32-41-42-28 with my daily on my 12900KS


----------



## Muut

energie80 said:


> I got better latency at 7600 and same bandwidth


Better latency I don't doubt, but same bandwidth ? 🤔 do you have a screenshot ? are you talking a die + RPL ?


----------



## bianbao.dev

skullbringer said:


> requesting support here, please...
> 
> *z790 hero 0088 *
> ddr5 7800
> stable in ycruncher VST, tm5 [email protected], karhu
> 
> View attachment 2585853
> 
> 
> 
> *z790 apex 0088*
> ddr5 7800
> unstable in ycruncher VST, tm5 [email protected] and karhu bsod
> 
> View attachment 2585854
> 
> 
> same cpu: 13900KF, SP MC 79
> same dimms: hynix a-die oem green sticks
> same slots: better stick in channel a, worse stick in channel b
> same 120 mm at 12V for cooling on top of modules without physical contact to dimms
> identical timings from what I can tell
> 
> 
> one thing I noticed, apex sets different voltages for mc voltage and vddq tx on auto. but they are not stable on auto and also not stable when set to same values as the hero sets on auto
> 
> so like is my z790 apex broken? 😥


they are not the same timing at all, tRDRD_DR 16 vs 14, tRDRD_DD 18 vs 14, tRDWR_DD 26 vs 24, tWRRD_DR 16 vs 14, tWRRD_DD 16 vs 14.

and you should update BIOS newer than 0088, like 0099 or 0031 or newer else.


----------



## owikh84

tWR = -1  

This is my third run of 8000 CL36 on Z690 Extreme, I could feel that anything that I adjusted will work. The board will boot (pretty fast) with whatever I set LOL.

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2203
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.55v load (1.60v BIOS set) | TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.175V | MC 1.45V*


----------



## Muut

owikh84 said:


> tWR = -1
> 
> This is my third run of 8000 CL36 on Z690 Extreme, I could feel that anything that I adjusted will work. The board will boot (pretty fast) with whatever I set LOL.
> 
> 13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2203
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.55v load (1.60v BIOS set) | TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.175V | MC 1.45V*
> View attachment 2585901


have you tried lower your VDDQ TX ? good results nonetheless


----------



## owikh84

Muut said:


> have you tried lower your VDDQ TX ? good results nonetheless


I did try TX 1.45-1.475v but I will get error at 30-45mins.


----------



## newls1

What is a safe max voltage to apply to A-Die? My M-Die ram liked 1.55 can A-Die do the same?


----------



## Muut

I have no idea but I was already told I was too high with 1.45v, but same as Owikh84, I would not pass 1sec of Y-cruncher VST any lower. On the previous gen, it was said to be safe up to 1.45v for daily but I saw many above 1.5v.

On the other hand, I also see many using around ~1.3v at 8200+ so I believe it really depends on the CPU. IMC quality maybe ? I don't know, just speculation. My MC SP is 72 and I need 1.45v to be stable at 8200. If I go 7800-8000, 1.4v is enough. So it seems it needs to be increased with memory frequency.


----------



## newls1

Muut said:


> I have no idea but I was already told I was too high with 1.45v, but same as Owikh84, I would not pass 1sec of Y-cruncher VST any lower. On the previous gen, it was said to be safe up to 1.45v for daily but I saw many above 1.5v.
> 
> On the other hand, I also see many using around ~1.3v at 8200+ so I believe it really depends on the CPU. IMC quality maybe ? I don't know, just speculation. My MC SP is 72 and I need 1.45v to be stable at 8200. If I go 7800-8000, 1.4v is enough. So it seems it needs to be increased with memory frequency.


you can go up to 8000 and only need 1.40v? I have to be doing something way wrong here then


----------



## CptSpig

Muut said:


> I have no idea but I was already told I was too high with 1.45v, but same as Owikh84, I would not pass 1sec of Y-cruncher VST any lower. On the previous gen, it was said to be safe up to 1.45v for daily but I saw many above 1.5v.
> 
> On the other hand, I also see many using around ~1.3v at 8200+ so I believe it really depends on the CPU. IMC quality maybe ? I don't know, just speculation. My MC SP is 72 and I need 1.45v to be stable at 8200. If I go 7800-8000, 1.4v is enough. So it seems it needs to be increased with memory frequency.


Screen Shots?


----------



## owikh84

4th run for 8000 CL36, this time I adjusted the dd dr timings and still stable. Setting these to 4 or 1 will give error though.

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2203
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.55v load (1.60v BIOS set) | TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.175V | MC 1.45V







*


----------



## morph.

What's the secret sauce with voltages for stabilisation these days?

How does one know which voltage to increase VDD/ VDDQ/ MC or SA to obtain that stabilisation?

I've traditionally brute-forced 1.5/1.5/1.4/1.2 but now with the apex I'm pushing 1.55v ish on air and maybe I need to crank up my IMC more? for higher clock stability on m-die and or a-die (whenever ri get that).


----------



## Carillo

1000% HCI with "safe" voltages for dayli profile. Last run with this cpu before it ships of to a new owner. 

*DDR5-8200 34-47-8-47-32
VDD 1.550 VDDQ 1.540 | TX VDDQ 1.400V | SA 1.200V | MC 1.400V
APEX Z790 BIOS 0040 
SK Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N *


----------



## morph.

Carillo said:


> 1000% HCI with "safe" voltages for dayli profile. Last run with this cpu before it ships of to a new owner.
> 
> *DDR5-8200 34-47-8-47-32
> VDD 1.550 VDDQ 1.540 | TX VDDQ 1.400V | SA 1.200V | MC 1.400V
> APEX Z790 BIOS 0040
> SK Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585917


Any reason you're not using the 804 bios?


----------



## warbucks

morph. said:


> Any reason you're not using the 804 bios?


He's likely running green A-die sticks and bios 0040 has some changes for the PMIC on those.


----------



## sugi0lover

One user tested DDR5 5600 default vs 8000 OC gaming test, and here it is~


Spoiler: Summary and His opinion



*DDR5 5600 Default vs 8000 OC
[1080P difference] *

Min fps (Red Dead Redemption 2 excluded) : +8.3%
Min fps (Red Dead Redemption 2 included) : +24.8%
Avg fps : +10.3%
Max fps : +9.3%
_*[2160P difference] *_

Min fps (Horizon Zero Dawn excluded) : +9.1%
Min fps (Horizon Zero Dawn included) : +13.5%
Avg fps : +7.1%
Max fps : +6.1%
*[His thought]*

Even with Ram OC 8000, 1080P resolution is not high enough to utilize 4090 full performance (GPU-Z Graph 75~90% utilization)
4090 is waste just for 1080P, at least QHD is recommended for 4090
Even at 4K resolution, Ram OC can show the great performance increase in Min fps.
Ram OC is not necessary, but it is really good.
Even with Ram OC 8000, only primary ram timing tightened 8000 doesn't make much difference from 5600 default.
High Clock XMP ram will not make you feel the performance increase unless sub-timings are tightened manually, so waste of money if not manually oced.
There is some difficulty in sub-timing ram oc.
Five games selected which has its own in-game benchmark that he owns.
On-line games or PUBG which ram oc affects well will make big performance increase in 4K resolution.






Spoiler: 5600 Default, 8000 OC, and 4090 setup



13900KF : P 5.6 Ghz / E 4.5Ghz / Cache 5.0Ghz
4090 Suprim X
DDR5 Hynix A-die





























Spoiler: Cyberpunck 2022 Test (1080P 5600, 1080P 8000, 4K 5600, 4K 8000)









































Spoiler: FarCry6 Test (1080P 5600, 1080P 8000, 4K 5600, 4K 8000)









































Spoiler: Horizon Zero Dawn Test (1080P 5600, 1080P 8000, 4K 5600, 4K 8000)









































Spoiler: Red Dead Redemption 2 Test (1080P 5600, 1080P 8000, 4K 5600, 4K 8000)









































Spoiler: Shadow of the Tombraider (1080P 5600, 1080P 8000, 4K 5600, 4K 8000)









































Spoiler: Original Post (Korean)












쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


테스트 시스템 13900KF : P코어 56 / E코어 45 / 캐쉬 504090 슈프림XDDR5 하이닉스 A다이CPU GPU 팬속 100%밑에 요약있음DDR5 순정DDR



coolenjoy.net


----------



## Nizzen

tubs2x4 said:


> What’s with the 54 latency? Think at that speed you be under 50ns for sure. Or is that the cpu lagging?


Depends of OS, background programs, features on the MB etc.


----------



## newls1

Besides the Z790 Apex, what would be a motherboard that will clock ram 8000+ with ease. Im having weird issues with my unify x and thinking about finding it a replacement but WANT TO DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND NOT GUESS, so im asking you guys. Really wish I could stick with MSI as I love their BIOS but im up for waht you guys recommend.


----------



## tibcsi0407

newls1 said:


> Besides the Z790 Apex, what would be a motherboard that will clock ram 8000+ with ease. Im having weird issues with my unify x and thinking about finding it a replacement but WANT TO DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND NOT GUESS, so im asking you guys. Really wish I could stick with MSI as I love their BIOS but im up for waht you guys recommend.


Z790 Dark, Z790 Tachyon. I don't know if you could buy any of them. Probably you can't.


----------



## skullbringer

bianbao.dev said:


> they are not the same timing at all, tRDRD_DR 16 vs 14, tRDRD_DD 18 vs 14, tRDWR_DD 26 vs 24, tWRRD_DR 16 vs 14, tWRRD_DD 16 vs 14.
> 
> and you should update BIOS newer than 0088, like 0099 or 0031 or newer else.


why do DR and DD timings matter for a single-rank memory configuration? 

also I have tried 0031 on the Apex, does not change a thing.


----------



## bianbao.dev

skullbringer said:


> why do DR and DD timings matter for a single-rank memory configuration?
> 
> also I have tried 0031 on the Apex, does not change a thing.


tRDRD Different DIMM (TRDRD_DD): 
Minimum delay from RD to RD to the other DIMM in tCK (WCK for LPDDR5) cycles.


----------



## skullbringer

bianbao.dev said:


> tRDRD Different DIMM (TRDRD_DD):
> Minimum delay from RD to RD to the other DIMM in tCK (WCK for LPDDR5) cycles.


Hm intel documentation is somewhat ambiguous here, I'll give you that. Though I'm fairly sure it's only related to different dimm in the same channel, since most people just set it to 4 (min) on 1 DPC configs. But honeslty that's beside the point, I'm happy to set it exactly the same as hero does on auto.

also updated Apex to latest bios I could find, 0804:

here is auto mc and vddq tx:









here is mc and vddq tx identical to hero:











Spoiler: hero again for comparison:















vddq tx seems to droop a lot according to software readout, maybe something there is broken forget it, hero does it, too

to restate what is bugging me: *surely, a 1 DPC motherboard of the same generation, manufacturer and product line should always perform better than the 2 DPC equivalent. *

so anything else I can try? or just rma the board and hope for better?


----------



## satinghostrider

skullbringer said:


> Hm intel documentation is somewhat ambiguous here, I'll give you that. Though I'm fairly sure it's only related to different dimm in the same channel, since most people just set it to 4 (min) on 1 DPC configs. But honeslty that's beside the point, I'm happy to set it exactly the same as hero does on auto.
> 
> also updated Apex to latest bios I could find, 0804:
> 
> here is auto mc and vddq tx:
> View attachment 2585977
> 
> 
> here is mc and vddq tx identical to hero:
> View attachment 2585978
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: hero again for comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585979
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vddq tx seems to droop a lot according to software readout, maybe something there is broken forget it, hero does it, too
> 
> so yeah uh, anything else I can try? or just rma the board and hope for better?


Oddly on Z690 Apex with MC79, I have this weird issue where I get CPU related core errors on memtest86 when pushing past 7400. The rams can do 7400 and 7600 on other boards but I'm not sure at this point if it could be the CPU since your board is Z790 Apex. And even you seem to have an MC79 13900k also.


----------



## pipes

sp MC are the acronyms of which words? noob question

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## sulalin

pipes said:


> sp MC are the acronyms of which words? noob question
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


MC SP = IMC SP


----------



## skullbringer

sp = silicon prediction, mc = memory controller


----------



## ChaosAD

newls1 said:


> Besides the Z790 Apex, what would be a motherboard that will clock ram 8000+ with ease. Im having weird issues with my unify x and thinking about finding it a replacement but WANT TO DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND NOT GUESS, so im asking you guys. Really wish I could stick with MSI as I love their BIOS but im up for waht you guys recommend.


For almost half the price of the apex, you can try the MSI MPG Z790I Edge, which can easily do 8000 afaik. If you can go with mini ITX that is.


----------



## Joe Borow

Guys, my question might be stupid, but should i buy hynix adie for my unify x or without new microcode updates, the emphasis will still be in 6800‐7000MHz?


----------



## SuperMumrik

ChaosAD said:


> For almost half the price of the apex, you can try the MSI MPG Z790I Edge, which can easily do 8000 afaik. If you can go with mini ITX that is.


I'm kinda curious of this. Anyone here pushing beyond 8200MT/s on the MSI MPG Z790I Edge?


----------



## mattxx88

newls1 said:


> Besides the Z790 Apex, what would be a motherboard that will clock ram 8000+ with ease. Im having weird issues with my unify x and thinking about finding it a replacement but WANT TO DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND NOT GUESS, so im asking you guys. Really wish I could stick with MSI as I love their BIOS but im up for waht you guys recommend.


i'm on z790i strix and can handle easy 8000+
i choose asus for no audio built in, less is more by my side
but im curious about msi 790i too, so you could be a beta tester


----------



## newls1

ChaosAD said:


> For almost half the price of the apex, you can try the MSI MPG Z790I Edge, which can easily do 8000 afaik. If you can go with mini ITX that is.


think it will take my 5.9GHz all core OC as good as my unify x?


----------



## energie80

Muut said:


> Better latency I don't doubt, but same bandwidth ? 🤔 do you have a screenshot ? are you talking a die + RPL ?





Joe Borow said:


> Guys, my question might be stupid, but should i buy hynix adie for my unify x or without new microcode updates, the emphasis will still be in 6800‐7000MHz?


7600/7800


----------



## energie80

newls1 said:


> think it will take my 5.9GHz all core OC as good as my unify x?


Cant you run 7600 on unify x?


----------



## sulalin

SuperMumrik said:


> I'm kinda curious of this. Anyone here pushing beyond 8200MT/s on the MSI MPG Z790I Edge?


Z690 APEX can be 8200-8800, if MSI 790I can’t, then you can take it away


Spoiler: 8000-8800


----------



## SuperMumrik

energie80 said:


> Cant you run 7600 on unify x?


7600MT/s is a bust on a-die vs fast m-dies

Guess what's fastest in gaming between theese two


----------



## ChaosAD

sulalin said:


> Z690 APEX can be 8200-8800, if MSI 790I can’t, then you can take it away


Can we please stop that crap with the Z690 Apex? Only 5% of the production of this joke can achieve that.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sulalin said:


> Z690 APEX can be 8200-8800, if MSI 790I can’t, then you can take it away


Yeah, I agree! 
However, mine can't do 8000 or above reliably with a strong IMC and quite decent sticks


----------



## sulalin

SuperMumrik said:


> Yeah, I agree!
> However, mine can't do 8000 or above reliably with a strong IMC and quite decent sticks


Compared to Z690 UNIFY-X with 0% 8000-8800MHZ, Z690 APEX still has 5%! Isn’t 0% a bigger joke?


----------



## newls1

energie80 said:


> Cant you run 7600 on unify x?


yes EASILY... Im @ 7712mhz Y-Cruncher stable


----------



## Muut

CptSpig said:


> Screen Shots?


Sorry, screenshots of what ?

I just posted my daily profile on the previous page ^^ Here

I can repost them if you want :










And a longer Karhu










As a reminder :

*- Z790 APEX 8200 c36-48-48-52* 
*- CPU *: 13900KF @ 5.6ghz / 4.4ghz / 4.9ghz
*- DDR5* : 2x16 Teamgroup Delta RGB 7200


*SP* : 101 / 112 / 81
*IMC SP *: 70 - 72
*VDD : *1.57v
*VDDQ : *1.55v
*IMC Voltage : *1.525v
*VDDQ TX : *1.45v
*System Agent : *1.37v
Auto voltages for VDDQ TX and IMC don't work well and make VST fail. 
I have to raise them manually.

*VDDQ TX* : 1.4v up to 1.44v fails VST. 1.45v is good. 
*IMC Voltage* : 1.475v needed for 7800, 1.5v for 8000, 1.525v needed for 8200.


----------



## sulalin

SuperMumrik said:


> 是的，我同意！
> 然而，我的不能用強大的 IMC 和相當不錯的棍子可靠地做 8000 或以上
> [/引用]
> Z690 APEX 13900K SP97 MC SP 69 8533-8800OK


----------



## sulalin

ChaosAD said:


> Can we please stop that crap with the Z690 Apex? Only 5% of the production of this joke can achieve that.


Compared to Z690 UNIFY-X with 0% 8000-8800MHZ, Z690 APEX still has 5%! Isn’t 0% a bigger joke?


----------



## SuperMumrik

sulalin said:


> Compared to Z690 UNIFY-X with 0% 8000-8800MHZ, Z690 APEX still has 5%! Isn’t 0% a bigger joke?


I think you quoted the wrong person. I never said either mb's where a joke.
I just stated I can't do 8000MT/s or above stable with cpu imc sp of 85 and the cpu can boot 8800


----------



## rs199208

finally, decided on what i'm going to do with the ram block!
I've been working on a new layout for my external water loop last couple weeks so all OC has been on hold. also adding the bitspower 2 dimm block made the loop more complicated. 
many parts arriving these last weeks with more on way but i kept changing something in the loop layout then buying even more parts lol! 
i recently acquired a mora3 420 core for only $160 but I'm not liking it in my cpu/gpu loop so.........
i'm going to run the new 4 dimm bitspower block that's on its way on the 2 dimms using a separate loop with the mora3 in passive 24/7 mode and a box fan on it when testing ram OC.
it addresses all my concerns while making my cpu/gpu loop less complicated too.
ill be able to pull the ram block out of the case without disconnecting either loop because the tubing will run through the front of my lancool II case which never uses the front case cover. 
the mora3 will be in a separate room thus giving me back my space behind the case to easily add more hardware labs rads to the cpu/gpu loop optimizing the area with 560mm additions!
I'm stoked!
this will drop ram temps even more with its own loop. i haven't even used paste yet on the ram block and heatsinks which will be next thing i do for sure.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

Joe Borow said:


> Guys, my question might be stupid, but should i buy hynix adie for my unify x or without new microcode updates, the emphasis will still be in 6800‐7000MHz?


Unify-X have recent A80 bios which massively improves Hynix-A performance. Go for 7600 its ez after new bios


----------



## newls1

*Think this board can do 8000+ mem and maintain 13900k @ 5.9Ghz all core? (ASUS Z790-I ROG Strix Gaming) I would have tried the MSI edge mITX board but my local MC doesnt have it only this?








ASUS Z790-I ROG Strix Gaming WiFi Intel LGA 1700 Mini-ITX Motherboard - Micro Center


Get it now! Rules are made to be broken. Smashing the conventions of what a mini-ITX motherboard can do, the ROG Strix Z790-Is power delivery rivals that of full-scale titans and its stacked thermal array is more than a match for multi-core behemoths.




www.microcenter.com




*


----------



## ChaosAD

sulalin said:


> Compared to Z690 UNIFY-X with 0% 8000-8800MHZ, Z690 APEX still has 5%! Isn’t 0% a bigger joke?


Don't think so, UnifyX didn't cost 800 euros. Other than that most, if not all, could oc to 6800, while with Apex none, or at least most, could not. So you see the difference, its easy to distinguish the joke between these two


----------



## sulalin

ChaosAD said:


> Don't think so, UnifyX didn't cost 800 euros. Other than that most, if not all, could oc to 6800, while with Apex none, or at least most, could not. So you see the difference, its easy to distinguish the joke between these two


6800? If you buy Z690 A PRO, you can get MDIE 6800 or even 7000MHZ. My Z690 APRO SAMSUNG IC MDIE can be 6800/7000MHZ on A-PRO, and the price is not as high as Z690 UNIFY-X 1/3!!!! Only need 6800 to buy 4DIMM board is fine! It is also MSI and 100% capable of 6800MHZ!


----------



## Joe Borow

energie80 said:


> 7600/7800


even from the 12th gen? or 13th?



everyone hates unify x 
although I was told that this is a good board for DDR5 OC, as usual I bought something that does not work so well)


----------



## ChaosAD

sulalin said:


> 6800? If you buy Z690 A PRO, you can get MDIE 6800 or even 7000MHZ. My Z690 APRO SAMSUNG IC MDIE can be 6800/7000MHZ on A-PRO, and the price is not as high as Z690 UNIFY-X 1/3!!!! Only need 6800 to buy 4DIMM board is fine! It is also MSI and 100% capable of 6800MHZ!


Tell your jokes to all the people that bought the Apex and strugle to go above 6400-6600. So please do us a favor and stop supporting Z690 Apex. You and some other guys got a top bin that can clock at 8k+. Thats good for you and i wish i had one of these. But its not like the Z790 boards at mem oc consistency.


----------



## energie80

Joe Borow said:


> even from the 12th gen? or 13th?
> 
> 
> 
> everyone hates unify x
> although I was told that this is a good board for DDR5 OC, as usual I bought something that does not work so well)


13900k


----------



## SuperMumrik

It's wierd that there is on one with the MPG 790i. 
I can vaguely remember during MSI's press conference that they told us this was a very strong board for mem oc


----------



## Joe Borow

energie80 said:


> 13900k


with 12900k above 6800 even *adie* can't?


----------



## energie80

Not sure I had mdie at 6800c30 paired with my old 12900ks


----------



## Joe Borow

saw the results on another forum
it turns out that in order to get conditional *7600* from *adie *to z690, you need to change cpu to 13900k, sad


----------



## rs199208

yeah, i seen the jufes review 






Joe Borow said:


> with 12900k above 6800 even *adie* can't?


my ks booted to 7800 on unify x only changing the dram speed that's all from 6400 xmp. i got 7400 stable but had issues at 7600 though i have yet to try OC on the supposedly best bios from novemeber.


----------



## Joe Borow

rs199208 said:


> my ks booted to 7800 on unify x only changing the dram speed that's all from 6400 xmp. i got 7400 stable but had issues at 7600 though i have yet to try OC on the supposedly best bios from novemeber.


thanks for this comment! I also have unify x and I would like to just change *mdie* to *adie* for higher frequencies, so i want to know if it will work with my 12900k


----------



## rs199208

Joe Borow said:


> thanks for this comment! I also have unify x and I would like to just change *mdie* to *adie* for higher frequencies, so i want to know if it will work with my 12900k


i have a delidded 12900k also but am in the chaos of changing my loop layout so wont be reinstalling it for awhile to test ram oc.


----------



## Carillo

rs199208 said:


> yeah, i seen the jufes review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my ks booted to 7800 on unify x only changing the dram speed that's all from 6400 xmp. i got 7400 stable but had issues at 7600 though i have yet to try OC on the supposedly best bios from novemeber.


Can we please STOP referring to this clown's videos ? 😅


----------



## Muut

Joe Borow said:


> thanks for this comment! I also have unify x and I would like to just change *mdie* to *adie* for higher frequencies, so i want to know if it will work with my 12900k


 if you already have a pair of mdie, I would stick to that on the UX and 12th gen


----------



## Joe Borow

rs199208 said:


> i have a delidded 12900k also but am in the chaos of changing my loop layout so wont be reinstalling it for awhile to test ram oc.


np man,I have some understanding
I will try to check it myself, as soon as possible and always listen to the advice


----------



## Joe Borow

Muut said:


> if you already have a pair of mdie, I would stick to that on the UX and 12th gen


maybe I'll change it to 13900k, 13th will be with me for a long time


----------



## skullbringer

it's not a general adl vs rpl issue. yes overall imc quality has gone up, but there is still a lot of variance. there are 13900K IMCs worse than 12900K IMCs.

also I'm RMA'ing my Apex... seemingly the whole batch that was sold via Alternate in DE 3 weeks ago has issue...


----------



## Muut

skullbringer said:


> it's not a general adl vs rpl issue. yes overall imc quality has gone up, but there is still a lot of variance. there are 13900K IMCs worse than 12900K IMCs.
> 
> also I'm RMA'ing my Apex... seemingly the whole batch that was sold via Alternate in DE 3 weeks ago has issue...


Yes yours seems dodgy. I don't have that voltage drop on VDDQ TX, this is odd
However mine was also in that Alternate batch Bl4ckdot (Le point noir) has probably mentionned and I have no issue. But the others yeah, one would not boot with 2 dimms, the other would throw q-code 53 randomly...


----------



## rs199208

Carillo said:


> Can we please STOP referring to this clown's videos ? 😅


? clowns can be informative while having a sense of humor..
i think he provides the community with good things but can be offensive to some.
not many videos out there that tries to do what he does.
just recognize he isn't a enthusiast as much as he is a esports gamer which is primarily focused on highest FPS on a very specific game. he is no buildzoid that's for sure lol! i like him.
i know he gets things wrong lol!


----------



## the_patchelor

SuperMumrik said:


> It's wierd that there is on one with the MPG 790i.
> I can vaguely remember during MSI's press conference that they told us this was a very strong board for mem oc


I'm runing the MSI Z790i with now my 2nd 13700KF, so far now G.Skill A-Dies 6600 stable @ 7600C36 with bios 123u3. (1st CPU I had MSI specific CPU Force 2 value of 146, now 133).

With 8000 I can boot and bench a bit but not stable, may need more then 1,5v VDIMM but then not a daily on air anymore.... may 8000 will come at some point... or some Board or RAM limitation, but for the price still a good deal compared to the APEX.


----------



## Kenan_D

Can anyone on a msi board show me a solid 7000/7200mhz with a CL30/32 timings on it with voltages!

Thanks in advance


----------



## rs199208

Kenan_D said:


> Can anyone on a msi board show me a solid 7000/7200mhz with a CL30/32 timings on it with voltages!
> 
> Thanks in advance


why 30 or 32 not 34? doesn't matter because of the other timings.


----------



## rs199208

Kenan_D said:


> Can anyone on a msi board show me a solid 7000/7200mhz with a CL30/32 timings on it with voltages!
> 
> Thanks in advance


----------



## Kenan_D

rs199208 said:


> why 30 or 32 not 34? doesn't matter because of the other timings.


34 is good too was just an example


----------



## rs199208

Kenan_D said:


> 34 is good too was just an example


these are my voltages for 7200 on 6400 A die. others can get lower but i also yeeted the vdd2 just in case to cover any issues in future and because i yeeted the trefi lol!
only raised dimm vdd .5 rest voltages auto including mb. water cooled ram though. the dimm2 max temp is a false reading because of hwinfo bug. this is on the less ram optimized unify x bios before Nov update.
edit: i forgot cpu aux at 2.0 and vpp at 2.0 these are safe voltages i only raised them just in case not sure if necessary.


----------



## Lord Alzov

.


----------



## sulalin

ChaosAD said:


> 把你的笑話告訴所有購買 Apex 並努力突破 6400-6600 的人。所以請幫我們一個忙，停止支持 Z690 Apex。你和其他一些人有一個可以達到 8k+ 時鐘的頂部垃圾箱。這對你有好處，我希望我有其中之一。但在 mem oc 一致性方面它不像 Z790 板。
> [/引用]





ChaosAD said:


> Tell your jokes to all the people that bought the Apex and strugle to go above 6400-6600. So please do us a favor and stop supporting Z690 Apex. You and some other guys got a top bin that can clock at 8k+. Thats good for you and i wish i had one of these. But its not like the Z790 boards at mem oc consistency.


Strangely, I didn't deny the memory overclocking problem of the 21-year-old apex. I also bought apex for 21 years, but I changed to the 22-year apex overclocking ability through a normal warranty channel, and I didn't zoom in or brag! It is undeniable that there is a memory overclocking problem in the 21-year-old apex! This is a real thing! But the memory overclocking ability of the 2022 apex is also undeniable! Really?


----------



## Kenan_D

rs199208 said:


> these are my voltages for 7200 on 6400 A die. others can get lower but i also yeeted the vdd2 just in case to cover any issues in future and because i yeeted the trefi lol!
> only raised dimm vdd .5 rest voltages auto including mb. water cooled ram though. the dimm2 max temp is a false reading because of hwinfo bug. this is on the less ram optimized unify x bios before Nov update.
> edit: i forgot cpu aux at 2.0 and vpp at 2.0 these are safe voltages i only raised them just in case not sure if necessary.
> View attachment 2586019


Can i reach these timings with no cooling on the ram while maintaining a stable OC and not overheating my ram sticks?
The only cooling in my case are the case fans for airflow and thats about it.


----------



## chibi

rs199208 said:


> finally, decided on what i'm going to do with the ram block!
> I've been working on a new layout for my external water loop last couple weeks so all OC has been on hold. also adding the bitspower 2 dimm block made the loop more complicated.
> many parts arriving these last weeks with more on way but i kept changing something in the loop layout then buying even more parts lol!
> i recently acquired a mora3 420 core for only $160 but I'm not liking it in my cpu/gpu loop so.........
> i'm going to run the new 4 dimm bitspower block that's on its way on the 2 dimms using a separate loop with the mora3 in passive 24/7 mode and a box fan on it when testing ram OC.
> it addresses all my concerns while making my cpu/gpu loop less complicated too.
> ill be able to pull the ram block out of the case without disconnecting either loop because the tubing will run through the front of my lancool II case which never uses the front case cover.
> the mora3 will be in a separate room thus giving me back my space behind the case to easily add more hardware labs rads to the cpu/gpu loop optimizing the area with 560mm additions!
> I'm stoked!
> this will drop ram temps even more with its own loop. i haven't even used paste yet on the ram block and heatsinks which will be next thing i do for sure.


That’s insane, dedicated mora 420 for just two dimms, LOL! 👌


----------



## rs199208

Kenan_D said:


> Can i reach these timings with no cooling on the ram while maintaining a stable OC and not overheating my ram sticks?
> The only cooling in my case are the case fans for airflow and thats about it.


its very possible. that same kit booted windows 11 at 7800 straight out of the box on air just not stable lol!
but i have a overkill airflow.
water is usefull at much higher voltages. maybe the water helped me lower voltages idk?


----------



## Nizzen

chibi said:


> That’s insane, dedicated mora 420 for just two dimms, LOL! 👌


I have only dedicated 360 radiator and one D5 for my 2x dimms


----------



## sulalin

Joe Borow said:


> 在另一個論壇上看到了結果
> 事實證明，為了從*adie 到z690獲得條件7600*，您需要將cpu更改為13900k，sad
> [/引用]
> 如果有好的12代cpu搭配imc，690 adie上也可以做8000-8533，但機會很小。


----------



## Muut

energie80 said:


> 7600/7800


Is that stable ? You told me you had better latency at 7600 and same bandwidth compared to my daily 8200 but you haven't provided any figures or screenshots. 

And are you talking about a stable profile which was at the very least tested using testmem, karhu or another stress test software ?

That's the first subject of this topic afterall


----------



## energie80

Give me the time to go back home


----------



## Muut

Don't worry no rush ^^


----------



## robalm

Just got my new kit 


https://www.proshop.se/RAM/GSkill-Trident-Z5-RGB-DDR5-6400-BK-C32-DC-32GB/3033588


Anyone know how to find out if it's A or M die? Thaiphoon burner is not working "can't load driver".

Anyway im happy, just enable XMP set IMC to 1.25v and did go for 6600mhz - 6666mhz - 6800mhz on 1.4v  have not tested 7000mhz.


----------



## the_patchelor

Check the printed label on the heatsink. Some number like 820A or M, maybe already 821A. A=A Die, M=M-Die.... you name it...


----------



## Nizzen

robalm said:


> Just got my new kit
> 
> 
> https://www.proshop.se/RAM/GSkill-Trident-Z5-RGB-DDR5-6400-BK-C32-DC-32GB/3033588
> 
> 
> Anyone know how to find out if it's A or M die? Thaiphoon burner is not working "can't load driver".
> 
> Anyway im happy, just enable XMP set IMC to 1.25v and did go for 6600mhz - 6666mhz - 6800mhz on 1.4v  have not tested 7000mhz.
> View attachment 2586050


If you can't run trfc at 300 with 6600mhz. It's Adie


----------



## robalm

Nizzen said:


> If you can't run trfc at 300 with 6600mhz. It's Adie


360 fail to boot


----------



## robalm

the_patchelor said:


> Check the printed label on the heatsink. Some number like 820A or M, maybe already 821A. A=A Die, M=M-Die.... you name it...


820A


----------



## energie80

Muut said:


> Don't worry no rush ^^


This is my daily


----------



## z390e

ChaosAD said:


> Tell your jokes to all the people that bought the Apex and strugle to go above 6400-6600. So please do us a favor and stop supporting Z690 Apex. You and some other guys got a top bin that can clock at 8k+. Thats good for you and i wish i had one of these. But its not like the Z790 boards at mem oc consistency.












Its almost herpes-like how every thread someone with a bad z690 Apex comes in and tells everyone how the high speeds they hit on their good z690 Apex is not standard. We know. You guys post this. In. Every. Single. Thread.

Why all of you didnt RMA your boards like people said in November _of last year_ is beyond me.


----------



## motivman

z390e said:


> Its almost herpes-like how every thread someone with a bad z690 Apex comes in and tells everyone how the high speeds they hit on their good z690 Apex is not standard. We know. You guys post this. In. Every. Single. Thread.
> 
> Why all of you didnt RMA your boards like people said in November _of last year_ is beyond me.


Well, I tried to RMA my board THREE times with Asus, and they kept sending it back, saying "no issue found"... the last time I sent it back in, they claimed there was physical damage (which I surely didn't cause) to my board, and voided my warranty. Sent me a bill to pay around $780 for a repair. I ended up throwing my Apex in the trash, LITERALLY.


----------



## z390e

@motivman not saying its not frustrating for you but the rest of us were tired of the Apex drama over a year ago. I think everyone agrees that ASUS had a huge QC problem, at this point most of the forum knows there is a big difference between a good Apex and a bad Apex from the z690 series.


----------



## 673714

z390e said:


> ...
> Why all of you didnt RMA your boards like people said in November _of last year_ is beyond me.
> ...


I couldn't even find any DDR5 until January of this year, but I agree 100%. They should have already done an RMA by now  


motivman said:


> Well, I tried to RMA my board THREE times with Asus, and they kept sending it back, saying "no issue found"... the last time I sent it back in, they claimed there was physical damage (which I surely didn't cause) to my board, and voided my warranty. Sent me a bill to pay around $780 for a repair. I ended up throwing my Apex in the trash, LITERALLY.


This is exactly why I did the "Advanced RMA", so then they'd have no choice but to send me a different motherboard


----------



## ChaosAD

z390e said:


> Its almost herpes-like how every thread someone with a bad z690 Apex comes in and tells everyone how the high speeds they hit on their good z690 Apex is not standard. We know. You guys post this. In. Every. Single. Thread.
> 
> Why all of you didnt RMA your boards like people said in November _of last year_ is beyond me.


Yea, you see we are not all that smart like you. But just for your information regarding the RMA, i tried to change the board with a working one, TWO times. Yes TWO. The first one they sent me back the same board ofc, by saying that there is no problem, and the second time they also sent it back, this time with a bios update, claiming that everything works fine. So the real problem is not that the Apex is a useless piece of crap, but the Asus support is even worse.


----------



## dante`afk

tubs2x4 said:


> What’s with the 54 latency? Think at that speed you be under 50ns for sure. Or is that the cpu lagging?


The speeds below 54ns are from people running win with no services running, no defender, no AV.

54ns is normal windows user


----------



## tubs2x4

dante`afk said:


> The speeds below 54ns are from people running win with no services running, no defender, no AV.
> 
> 54ns is normal windows user


Ok


----------



## bhav

ChaosAD said:


> Yea, you see we are not all that smart like you. But just for your information regarding the RMA, i tried to change the board with a working one, TWO times. Yes TWO. The first one they sent me back the same board ofc, by saying that there is no problem, and the second time they also sent it back, this time with a bios update, claiming that everything works fine. So the real problem is not that the Apex is a useless piece of crap, but the Asus support is even worse.


I had a £500 MSI Godlike X99 that died in under 6 months. The replacement £550 X99 Rampage had a broken LED. An Asus Z390 that had a snapped CMOS battery cable that wouldn't remember bios settings.

I dont feel any need to enter threads about these boards and claim my experiences to be the norm, also the issue I had with the MSI board was being reported on their forums by a lot of people at the time.

Sometimes you get PC parts that don't work / die fast. Live with it, life goes on. In the future RMA through the retailer, I notice you live in Greece so should have EU trade law protections that way.

Now gigabyte products on the other hand .... Yea good luck getting anything good from them.

This current issue with DDR5 on Asus boards, its well known in general. People can still risk buying one if they want, they might get a good one or a bad one, its the same gamble you take with silicon lottery on a new CPU.

Also I make video recordings of things I send back now, expecially motherboards, record that there is no damage to the board or pins, record the issue thats happening on the PC if possible. So if they want to claim user error or damage I have proof.

Looking up for the picture of my Z390 issue, I will say there is a huge problem with Asus QC, how this board passed whatever QC they do have I'll never understand:



Spoiler



Cable crushed under VRM heatsink












But the Asus Strix Z490 I got after it is probably the best mobo I ever had.


----------



## Nizzen

Gaming BF 2042....







😇










Geekbench 3 32bit:

*Memory Performance*

Single-core10633Multi-core15884 

Think I have a new "24/7" profile


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Gaming BF 2042....
> View attachment 2586076
> 
> 😇
> 
> View attachment 2586077


what board sir?


----------



## z390e

ChaosAD said:


> Yea, you see we are not all that smart like you. But just for your information regarding the RMA, i tried to change the board with a working one, TWO times. Yes TWO. The first one they sent me back the same board ofc, by saying that there is no problem, and the second time they also sent it back, this time with a bios update, claiming that everything works fine. So the real problem is not that the Apex is a useless piece of crap, but the Asus support is even worse.












Here, go post it over on it's actual thread, where people think it is on topic, and multiple OC.net users got full refunds. I wasn't smart about it, but I did read dozens of people saying they were not able to hit QVL speeds which should immediately generate an RMA. Sucks for you but I honestly am so tired of hearing about how your board had to be RMA'd in every thread anyone posts good Apex results in. Move on man.









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


WIP, links to all bioses, tools. https://youtu.be/rhdxPscpAIU https://youtu.be/MiatGZm7ioI https://youtu.be/fBrlgLZrFaI




www.overclock.net


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> what board sir?


z790 apex and mr green


----------



## motivman

It’s funny, I ordered an apex z790 even after my experience with the z690 apex… and just now seeing reports of bent boards, etc. keeping my fingers crossed that my board has no issues….


----------



## Muut

energie80 said:


> This is my daily
> View attachment 2586055



 Great AIDA performance 

Although you exagerated a little bit when you said you had the same bandwidth / throughput as me ^^ What are you voltages by the way ?


----------



## rs199208

dante`afk said:


> The speeds below 54ns are from people running win with no services running, no defender, no AV.
> 
> 54ns is normal windows user


or...windows fully funtional with e cores disabled and ring raised.
i'm pretty sure my 45ns in MLC isnt just because of a few windows apps disabled...


----------



## Muut

rs199208 said:


> or...windows fully funtional with e cores disabled and ring raised.
> i'm pretty sure my 45ns in MLC isnt just because of a few windows apps disabled...


The discussion was originally about my Aida from my daily profile.
I can also do a profile sub 50ns at 8200 that's no issue, here :










With MLC that would be even lower but atm it is bugged for me, I get 6ns when I run it, which can't be accurate 😅


----------



## z390e

I can get to 51-52ns with DDR5 on win11 with my daily setup fwiw, but I have a lot of stuff disabled. The RAM OC gods are in the 46-48ns range on DDR5 on a daily setup.


----------



## opt33

rs199208 said:


> or...windows fully funtional with e cores disabled and ring raised.
> i'm pretty my 45ns in MLC isnt just because of a few windows apps disabled...


Was going to say same, and along with ring/core differences, lot of latency differences are from software installed in addition to windows if allowed to load on startup (steam, etc) plus using programs to install mobo drivers like armory crate, etc adds 3-5ns to latency, or rgp software.

My windows install is normal, I disabled MS teams and onedrive as both annoy me. My latency is 53ns 7800c36 for 24/7, but can get 51-52ns stable with max trefi/lower trfc.


----------



## Muut

z390e said:


> I can get to 51-52ns with DDR5 on win11 with my daily setup fwiw, but I have a lot of stuff disabled. The RAM OC gods are in the 46-48ns range on DDR5 on a daily setup.


On a daily with Raptor lake that's not possible. I see a lot of "stable" profiles which have been running HCL or Memtest for less than an hour. I can run Karhu for more than 30 min on a borderline stable profile with really tight timings but that does not mean I'm stable.

Even I, yesterday thought I was stable after 2h of Karhu and 5 pass of Y-cruncher VST. Well soon after, I launched Sekiro and BSOD after 5 min into the game  










So I run a more extensive test during the night :



















And Now I'm rock solid


----------



## energie80

Muut said:


> Great AIDA performance
> 
> Although you exagerated a little bit when you said you had the same bandwidth / throughput as me ^^ What are you voltages by the way ?


1.47
Actually got no time to tighten more, saved 2 other profile but no time atm 😵‍💫


----------



## Nizzen

Powersave on
8533c34 gaming profile.
Worked for 2 hours in BF 2042, so it looks like it's pretty stable.


----------



## z390e

Muut said:


> On a daily with Raptor lake that's not possible. I see a lot of "stable" profiles which have been running HCL or Memtest for less than an hour. I can run Karhu for more than 30 min on a borderline stable profile with really tight timings but that does not mean I'm stable.


Do you mean the 46ns-48ns ones?

We've seen @sugi0lover post some daily sub-50ns DDR5 scores above 8400 on Raptor so its definitely possible with the right combination of cooling/tweaking. Not sure how low it can go but I'm definitely 51-52s on my daily setup thats posted on hwbot and I am on air cooled DIMMs with ADL and I suck at Ram tweaking 


Edit: saw @Nizzen post just as I posted this for a great example of sub-50ns


----------



## Nizzen

z390e said:


> Do you mean the 46ns-48ns ones?
> 
> We've seen @sugi0lover post some daily sub-50ns DDR5 scores above 8400 on Raptor so its definitely possible with the right combination of cooling/tweaking. Not sure how low it can go but I'm definitely 51-52s on my daily setup thats posted on hwbot and I am on air cooled DIMMs with ADL and I suck at Ram tweaking
> 
> 
> Edit: saw @Nizzen post just as I posted this for a great example of sub-50ns


With 6ghz all core 5,2ghz cache, no power save, no features enabled in bios, stripped windows. Then ~47ns is doable.

Around 50ns is very good for gaming on this platform, that's for shure!


----------



## morph.

I'm struggling to decide if I should get a set of T-Force 7600 or Gskill 7600 kit.

I know the Team kit has lower factory tras and thermal pads on the PMIC. Unlike the gskill kit... Wish someone did a comparison on the two for overclockability with their "OEM" heat spreaders. I do like the gskill design more but if the difference is great enough I'll go with t-force, especially on air.


----------



## Muut

z390e said:


> Do you mean the 46ns-48ns ones?
> 
> We've seen @sugi0lover post some daily sub-50ns DDR5 scores above 8400 on Raptor so its definitely possible with the right combination of cooling/tweaking. Not sure how low it can go but I'm definitely 51-52s on my daily setup thats posted on hwbot and I am on air cooled DIMMs with ADL and I suck at Ram tweaking
> 
> 
> Edit: saw @Nizzen post just as I posted this for a great example of sub-50ns


Well yeah, I think they both have really good hardware on top of their good skills  

Post your settings and let's see what we can do. I was in the low 46ns on alder lake and I have always been air cooling my ram too so that's not an issue with a proper fan !


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> I'm struggling to decide if I should get the T-Force 7600 or Gskill 7600 kit.
> 
> I know the Team kit has thermal pads on the PMIC unlike the gskill... Whish someone did a comparison on the two for overclockability with their "OEM" heat spreaders. I do like the gskill design more but if the difference is great enough I'll go with t-force, especially on air.


Take off the "heat spreaders" and the temperature is better on both kits. Just use a direct fan.
Want to run 8000+? Watercool them for easy OC 

I have tested the G.skill 7600, and there was no problem running 7600 tweaked "XMP" with the original heatsinks. 
I'm running M-die Team Delta air cooled @ 1.45v on z690 Apex, and it NEEDS active aircooling. Both Team and G.skill is pretty equal in term of the bad heatsinks. All you need is a direct fan over them. Up to 1.5v in a case is doable with active cooling.

Everyone knows that cooling is king, so why not cooling the dimms enough


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> Take off the "heat spreaders" and the temperature is better on both kits. Just use a direct fan.
> Want to run 8000+? Watercool them for easy OC
> 
> I have tested the G.skill 7600, and there was no problem running 7600 tweaked "XMP" with the original heatsinks.
> I'm running M-die Team Delta air cooled @ 1.45v on z690 Apex, and it NEEDS active aircooling. Both Team and G.skill is pretty equal in term of the bad heatsinks. All you need is a direct fan over them. Up to 1.5v in a case is doable with active cooling.
> 
> Everyone knows that cooling is king, so why not cooling the dimms enough


As much as I want to push performance to the fringes, I also care about aesthetics so running them naked is not an option. Putting it on water would be great but my hard tube lines won't be straight thus not something I'll entertain. However, I do have them actively cooled on air as a compromise.

SO I guess I have a lot of restraints on how far I can take this, so I can only take it as far as I can on active air cooling thus my deliberation on which kit to get might yield a better result for 8000+ hopefully similar to @owikh84

Currently running my m-die 6400 gskills at like 1.56v on active air and it seems to be surviving and stress testing fine around 50deg spd hub.


----------



## Nizzen

Is there any new Intel MLC that works with Raptor Lake?


----------



## eruditeswine

Hello, what could cause my overclock to no longer work under stress test? BIOS? OS? Hardware?

E.g. Previously able to run Prime95 and MemTest Pro over 12 hours at 6200 with 1.45V. Now, unable to run the aforementioned.


----------



## Muut

morph. said:


> As much as I want to push performance to the fringes, I also care about aesthetics so running them naked is not an option, putting it on water would be great but my hard tube lines won't be straight thus not something I'll entertain as well I do have them actively cooled on air as a compromise. SO I guess I have a lot of restraints on how far I can take this and will take it as far as I can on active air cooling and thus my deliberation on which kit to get.


I have the teamgroup 7200 on an apex (so dimms are pretty close appart) with stock HS and a simple Arctic P14 in front of them. SPD HUB temperature in HWinfo does reports 45°c maximum. And that's after 6h of Karhu : *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...

Here are my voltages : 










So, you'll have better thermals without them but it's not mandatory unless you live somewhere where it's 30°c all year.


----------



## morph.

Muut said:


> I have the teamgroup 7200 on an apex (so dimms are pretty close appart) with stock HS and a simple Arctic P14 in front of them. SPD HUB temperature in HWinfo does reports 45°c maximum. And that's after 6h of Karhu : _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Here are my voltages :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you'll have better thermals without them but it's not mandatory unless you live somewhere where it's 30°c all year.


Do you think there's much diff between the 7200 vs the 7600 kit just better binning meaning potentially lower voltages?


----------



## energie80

Just better bin 😅


----------



## Muut

morph. said:


> Do you think there's much diff between the 7200 vs the 7600 kit just better binning meaning potentially lower voltages?


I suppose in theory yes, but it appears a-die will be limited by the mb/cpu before it is really maxed out. I bought my kit from a friend for cheap so I have been using a die for only a day, I'm maybe not the best person to provide the most accurate answer ^^ Maybe wait for a 8000 bin to become cheaper idk


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> Do you think there's much diff between the 7200 vs the 7600 kit just better binning meaning potentially lower voltages?


Can't be much difference when even the 6400 a-die kits does 8200c34+.
There isn't many a-die retail kits that doesn't do 8000+.


----------



## chibi

Are you guys aware of any a-die retail that has no rgb? I found this kit from corsair, but not sure of chip.









CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 (PC5 51200) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX5M2X6400C38 - Newegg.com


Buy CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 (PC5 51200) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX5M2X6400C38 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.ca


----------



## energie80

Corsair has 7200 a die without rgb


----------



## opt33

Also corsair with rgb, the rgb is in top (via plugin) so likely doesnt affect dram temps (if just temp issue trying to avoid). My TG kit, I ran tm5 15 mins with and without RGP tested 2x each, only 1.5C lower temp with rgp turned off, thought it would be bigger difference.

I still cant figure how others running memory tests on adie at 1.5V on air with stock heatsink, all 3 of my kits spits errors/bsod or instant bsod within seconds, even if using stable 7200 settings and just raise voltage. My ambient is 24c, 27C inside computer. Though in 16C ambient, I can run 1.5v, maybe others with open bench/higher airflow with ? 18-20C ambient vs my 27c inside case temps.

Havent tried running mine bare, but since 1 TG kit already bare waiting on heatsinks, will try for test, but my case ambient may be too high. outside would be no issue for sure.


----------



## energie80

Same, can’t run 1.5 a die


----------



## chibi

energie80 said:


> Corsair has 7200 a die without rgb


Do you have a link, the highest one I found on their website is c34/7000


https://www.corsair.com/ca/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMK32GX5M2X7000C34


----------



## rs199208

chibi said:


> Do you have a link, the highest one I found on their website is c34/7000
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/ca/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMK32GX5M2X7000C34











CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX5M2X7200C34 - Newegg.com


Buy CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 7200 (PC5 57600) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX5M2X7200C34 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## Dodgexander

Buildzoid seemed to suggest there was next to no difference between buying a lower binned kit compared to high binned but I'm not sure I believe him 100% with A die, as it may be different from M die.
It may depend on your expectations when overclocking, your ability to cool the ram and your hardware.

I was thinking about buying one of the 7200/7400 corsair models when they had their sales + 10% discount on but I'm trying to be as patient as I can because I believe when manufacturers like Gskill come out with 8000mhz kits the price is going to drop a lot on the others.

Does anyone know if the Vengeance series is as good for heat dissipation as their Dominator kits?


----------



## opt33

Nizzen was spot on about better temps with heatsinks off. I have tried TM5 multiple times at 1.5V on all 3 of my adie kits, and always instant bsod within seconds, even 1.48+ spits errors with stock heatsinks in room temp air. Below is pic with my TG bare die kit currently running (stripped them 2 days ago while waiting for aftermarket heatsinks), (fan is running 120mm 1400rpms, just pic makes it look still)

2nd pic: just ran TM5 for 10 minutes at 1.5v (using my 24/7 stable settings 7800c36 1.43v), just increased volts to 1.5v. Not a single error in TM5. My spd temps clearly lower considering voltage, and IC temps must be at least 6-8C lower as would need that much lower ambient to duplicate with stock heatsink on.

obviously the thermal adhesive tape 0.6 to 1.6w/mk whatever they are using isnt cutting it. 

now, do I even bother with aftermarket heatsinks....all I wanted to use was 1.5v....


----------



## Dodgexander

opt33 said:


> I still cant figure how others running memory tests on adie at 1.5V on air with stock heatsink, all 3 of my kits spits errors/bsod or instant bsod within seconds, even if using stable 7200 settings and just raise voltage. My ambient is 24c, 27C inside computer. Though in 16C ambient, I can run 1.5v, maybe others with open bench/higher airflow with ? 18-20C ambient vs my 27c inside case temps.


I had the same experience, but then I discovered that even my micron ram at 1.25v overheats over time. I can only assume it's down to poor heatsink design and bad airflow so I have bought a fan to see if it makes some difference.
I think a lot of people testing here are on water, or open bench as you say. It probably gives unrealistic expectations to your average joe case user looking for a daily.


opt33 said:


> Nizzen was spot on about better temps with heatsinks off. I have tried TM5 multiple times at 1.5V on all 3 of my adie kits, and always instant bsod within seconds, even 1.48+ spits errors with stock heatsinks in room temp air. Below is pic with my TG bare die kit currently running (stripped them 2 days ago while waiting for aftermarket heatsinks), (fan is running 120mm 1400rpms, just pic makes it look still)
> 
> 2nd pic: just ran TM5 for 10 minutes at 1.5v (using my 24/7 stable settings 7800c36 1.43v), just increased volts to 1.5v. Not a single error in TM5. My spd temps clearly lower considering voltage, and IC temps must be at least 8-10C lower as would need that much lower ambient to duplicate with stock heatsink on.
> 
> obviously the thermal adhesive tape 0.6 to 1.6w/mk whatever they are using isnt cutting it.
> 
> now, do I even bother with aftermarket heatsinks....all I wanted to use was 1.5v....
> 
> View attachment 2586118
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586119


I'll have to try this, which team ram do you own? 7600mhz or 7200mhz?


----------



## chibi

opt33 said:


> Nizzen was spot on about better temps with heatsinks off. I have tried TM5 multiple times at 1.5V on all 3 of my adie kits, and always instant bsod within seconds, even 1.48+ spits errors with stock heatsinks in room temp air. Below is pic with my TG bare die kit currently running (stripped them 2 days ago while waiting for aftermarket heatsinks), (fan is running 120mm 1400rpms, just pic makes it look still)
> 
> 2nd pic: just ran TM5 for 10 minutes at 1.5v (using my 24/7 stable settings 7800c36 1.43v), just increased volts to 1.5v. Not a single error in TM5. My spd temps clearly lower considering voltage, and IC temps must be at least 6-8C lower as would need that much lower ambient to duplicate with stock heatsink on.
> 
> obviously the thermal adhesive tape 0.6 to 1.6w/mk whatever they are using isnt cutting it.
> 
> now, do I even bother with aftermarket heatsinks....all I wanted to use was 1.5v....
> 
> View attachment 2586118
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586119


You've gone that far to strip the heatsinks. Might as well throw a block on em while they're nakey. You have the loop already


----------



## opt33

Dodgexander said:


> I had the same experience, but then I discovered that even my micron ram at 1.25v overheats over time. I can only assume it's down to poor heatsink design and bad airflow so I have bought a fan to see if it makes some difference.
> I think a lot of people testing here are on water, or open bench as you say. It probably gives unrealistic expectations to your average joe case user looking for a daily.
> 
> I'll have to try this, which team ram do you own? 7600mhz or 7200mhz?


I have both, TG 7200 and 7600, the 7600kit is one I stripped. Corsair ram/heatsink allowed higher voltage so probably better than bare die, but their 7600 kit is overpriced. I just erred tm5 1.52v after few minutes, then computer popped off/reset. So 1.5v likely max bare die with my ambient. And yeah, just 5-7C variance in ambients going to make difference, and open bench vs case, tolerance to higher fan speed, etc.


----------



## opt33

chibi said:


> You've gone that far to strip the heatsinks. Might as well throw a block on em while they're nakey. You have the loop already


wasnt going to water cool, too much annoyance to change ram, was just going to try and find better thermal pad/heatsink to allow higher voltage. Will probably still put heatsinks on.


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Nizzen was spot on about better temps with heatsinks off. I have tried TM5 multiple times at 1.5V on all 3 of my adie kits, and always instant bsod within seconds, even 1.48+ spits errors with stock heatsinks in room temp air. Below is pic with my TG bare die kit currently running (stripped them 2 days ago while waiting for aftermarket heatsinks), (fan is running 120mm 1400rpms, just pic makes it look still)


Pretty sad when naked cools better than actual heat spreaders... I think it's worth considering putting after-market thermal pads/tape on them to see how you go as that might actually be the bottleneck in extracting the heat off the ic's. Else direct die heatsinks look pretty efficient as well.


----------



## Hypnodancer

Hello OCnet
Venturing into ddr5 for the first time. Is there an intel ddr5 spreadsheet available similar to the zen leaderboards spreadsheet that is floating around? i'm looking for information for how the top *hynix m-die* kits clock step by step frequency/timings for daily usage without the need for disabling security/rollback microcode etc.

What are the top hynix m-die kits to choose from, say like top 5 kits.

Also, given that I only have experience with ddr4, are the relationships with the timings all relatively the same with ddr5 as they were with ddr4?

In regards to XMP 3.0, i saw that msi bios has a write your own profile to the ram stick sort of thing. Is this standard for all brands or is it msi exclusive?


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> Pretty sad when naked cools better than actual heat spreaders... I think it's worth considering putting after-market thermal pads/tape on them to see how you go as that might actually be the bottleneck in extracting the heat off the ic's. Else direct die heatsinks look pretty efficient as well.


yeah, have 2 ddr5 aftermarket heatsinks coming along with thermal pads (one bitspower), at least one kit should be here this weekend or monday. After seeing 1.52v pop computer off, will try kits, not sure what 1.5v would do overnight karhu which I use for 24/7. 

Given corsair found cost efficient way to provide better cooling (dominator heatsinks plus ? better 1.5-1.6 w/mk thermal adhesive tap), others need to follow suit. My vcolors thin tape looked like 3m 0.6 w/mk variant.


----------



## SoldierRBT

13900KF SP103 55/43/45 1.10v
8266 34-47-47 1.61v on air









Got my kit on water and it can do better timings now. 1.60v


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> After seeing 1.52v pop computer off,


yikes what do you mean by this?

Not sure why corsairs has been lagging soo far behind in the ddr5 game, guess they just have too big of a portfolio of products.


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> yikes what do you mean by this?
> 
> Not sure why corsairs has been lagging soo far behind in the ddr5 game, guess they just have too big of a portfolio of products.


high enough volts, running tm5 either computer freezes, bsods, or just instantly turns off and reboots.


----------



## asdkj1740

z390e said:


> Its almost herpes-like how every thread someone with a bad z690 Apex comes in and tells everyone how the high speeds they hit on their good z690 Apex is not standard. We know. You guys post this. In. Every. Single. Thread.
> 
> Why all of you didnt RMA your boards like people said in November _of last year_ is beyond me.


afaik there are some rma cases denied by asus and the reason given was there is nothing wrong with apex 2021.
you should not expect the local person of asus understanding whats going on with apex 2021.
not to mention the mkt pr manager (jojo?) of asus usa has publicly confirmed there are cpu cant even do 6000mhz.

maybe we should at least show some respect and/or sympathy to those apex 2021 users.


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Take off the "heat spreaders" and the temperature is better on both kits. Just use a direct fan.
> Want to run 8000+? Watercool them for easy OC
> 
> I have tested the G.skill 7600, and there was no problem running 7600 tweaked "XMP" with the original heatsinks.
> I'm running M-die Team Delta air cooled @ 1.45v on z690 Apex, and it NEEDS active aircooling. Both Team and G.skill is pretty equal in term of the bad heatsinks. All you need is a direct fan over them. Up to 1.5v in a case is doable with active cooling.
> 
> Everyone knows that cooling is king, so why not cooling the dimms enough


"Everyone knows that cooling is king"
wrong. gskill doesn't know.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> "Everyone knows that cooling is king"
> wrong. gskill doesn't know.


Team isn't much better. "Same" but different 








My daughter's gamer with aircooled Team Delta m-die


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Team isn't much better. "Same" but different
> View attachment 2586145
> 
> My daughter's gamer with aircooled Team Delta m-die


dad, i would say team delta responds well with air cooling, judging by the spd temp.
for god's sake why no dram vendors have put a physical button on the ram stick to perform 1 click no light.


----------



## robalm

TRFC2 and TRFC2B2.
Should my TRFC2B2 be lower than the TRFC2?
And if so, how mutch?
Thanks


----------



## rent0n

robalm said:


> TRFC2 and TRFC2B2.
> Should my TRFC2B2 be lower than the TRFC2?
> And if so, how mutch?
> Thanks
> View attachment 2586157


Trfcpb or sb is a single bank refresh, so yes it can go lower than rfc. Most m-die xmp/jedec profiles use a ratio close to 5 : 4 for rfc : pb meaning that your pb refresh rate is about 80-82% of the rfc value. I use even numbers for both, try 384/312 or 368/300 for example. For A-Die I usually go all the way up to rfc * 0.88-0.9 because it helps a little with stability.


----------



## newls1

anyone have any input on the gigabyte z790 master motherboard for ram OCing. I see their QVL list shows 8000MT/s speed compatability so im assuming for a 4dimm board this could be a safe bet for trying to achieve 8000 speeds since I cant seem to find a apex 790 in stock anywhere. What is your opinions on this board?


----------



## Nizzen

newls1 said:


> anyone have any input on the gigabyte z790 master motherboard for ram OCing. I see their QVL list shows 8000MT/s speed compatability so im assuming for a 4dimm board this could be a safe bet for trying to achieve 8000 speeds since I cant seem to find a apex 790 in stock anywhere. What is your opinions on this board?


Pleace try this MB, then repport back to us 
Someone needs to do the "dirty work"


----------



## bscool

newls1 said:


> anyone have any input on the gigabyte z790 master motherboard for ram OCing. I see their QVL list shows 8000MT/s speed compatability so im assuming for a 4dimm board this could be a safe bet for trying to achieve 8000 speeds since I cant seem to find a apex 790 in stock anywhere. What is your opinions on this board?











ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5


ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5




www.centralcomputer.com





That is where I bought mine. No taxes so cheaper than Newegg.

Sometimes it wont let you add it to cart but if you check back it will later on. I ran into that issue.


----------



## newls1

Nizzen said:


> Pleace try this MB, then repport back to us
> Someone needs to do the "dirty work"


Im very much thinking about it. Im thinking my Unify X is holding me back on my mem OC, just scared to get a 4dimm board again.



bscool said:


> ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.centralcomputer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is where I bought mine. No taxes so cheaper than Newegg.
> 
> Sometimes it wont let you add it to cart but if you check back it will later on. I ran into that issue.


Thank you


----------



## tibcsi0407

newls1 said:


> anyone have any input on the gigabyte z790 master motherboard for ram OCing. I see their QVL list shows 8000MT/s speed compatability so im assuming for a 4dimm board this could be a safe bet for trying to achieve 8000 speeds since I cant seem to find a apex 790 in stock anywhere. What is your opinions on this board?


Ask Buildzoid, he has a Master.


----------



## asdkj1740

newls1 said:


> anyone have any input on the gigabyte z790 master motherboard for ram OCing. I see their QVL list shows 8000MT/s speed compatability so im assuming for a 4dimm board this could be a safe bet for trying to achieve 8000 speeds since I cant seem to find a apex 790 in stock anywhere. What is your opinions on this board?


every qvl list is a joke, there is nothing safe in qvl list.


----------



## rs199208

Not a stability post but wow! Yes, I know the bclk is inflating the aida64.


----------



## VettePilot

I am new to DDR5 and just put together my 13900k z790 Asus Gaming E build and noticed that DDR5 even with 2 sticks installed will report as Quad Channel in HWinfo and CPU-Z. This is normal I take it? My kit is a Gskill Trident 6600mhz 2x16 and I am running them in slots A2, B2. with XMP I enabled.


----------



## opt33

Bitspower heatsinks arrived an hour ago (camera date is off), first pic tg7600 kit in bitspower hs with 13 w/mk pads 1.5mm back, 1.0mm on IC's, and 0.5mm (8 w/mk) on pmic.

max vdd/vddq before temp errors in 27C (internal case) ambient:
stock heatsink--------1.45v max stable, 1.50v tm5 bsod in seconds.
bare IC's---------------1.50v tm5 10 mins, 1.52v errors/reboot, IC temps must be ~5-6c lower based on needed drop in ambient to allow 1.5V.
bitspower heatsink--1.55 tm5 10 mins no error, then ran 1.50v below (pic) for temp comparison with bare ic run (ambient/internal case temps 1.5C higher than bare ic run posted earlier), IC temps must be 10-11+C lower, as need that much lower ambient to run 1.55 tm5 10 mins).

Now can try 8000 given 7800c36 needs 1.43 vdd/vddq, so will have enough voltage headroom, though dont have high hopes of my cpu capable of 8000 on this 4 dimm mobo. 

(btw alphacool $12 ddr heatsinks, and monarch, neither that I bought fit ddr5, only ddr4 apparently...too short only covered 3/4 ic chip), bitspower fit great.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Gskill 8000 c38 kit on newegg now. Anyone try it?


----------



## CptSpig

@Carillo @Nizzen What is the best bios for memory OC you are using.


----------



## Carillo

CptSpig said:


> @Carillo @Nizzen What is the best bios for memory OC you are using.


0040 or 0005 ( testing last one right now )


----------



## z390e

asdkj1740 said:


> afaik there are some rma cases denied by asus and the reason given was there is nothing wrong with apex 2021.
> you should not expect the local person of asus understanding whats going on with apex 2021.
> not to mention the mkt pr manager (jojo?) of asus usa has publicly confirmed there are cpu cant even do 6000mhz.
> 
> maybe we should at least show some respect and/or sympathy to those apex 2021 users.


Now, we did show some respect and sympathy, for more than a year, in its proper thread and many other threads. But now, since it is z790, people are just beating a dead horse.

People really don't need come into every thread where a user with a good Apex posted a good score and remind everyone how there are bad Apex's that can't hit those scores. We know.


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> 0040 or 0005 ( testing last one right now )


*For us mr green users 💚


----------



## Agent-A01

opt33 said:


> Bitspower heatsinks arrived an hour ago (camera date is off), first pic tg7600 kit in bitspower hs with 13 w/mk pads 1.5mm back, 1.0mm on IC's, and 0.5mm (8 w/mk) on pmic.
> 
> max vdd/vddq before temp errors in 27C (internal case) ambient:
> stock heatsink--------1.45v max stable, 1.50v tm5 bsod in seconds.
> bare IC's---------------1.50v tm5 10 mins, 1.52v errors/reboot, IC temps must be ~5-6c lower based on needed drop in ambient to allow 1.5V.
> bitspower heatsink--1.55 tm5 10 mins no error, then ran 1.50v below (pic) for temp comparison with bare ic run (ambient/internal case temps 1.5C higher than bare ic run posted earlier), IC temps must be 10-11+C lower, as need that much lower ambient to run 1.55 tm5 10 mins).
> 
> Now can try 8000 given 7800c36 needs 1.43 vdd/vddq, so will have enough voltage headroom, though dont have high hopes of my cpu capable of 8000 on this 4 dimm mobo.
> 
> (btw alphacool $12 ddr heatsinks, and monarch, neither that I bought fit ddr5, only ddr4 apparently...too short only covered 3/4 ic chip), bitspower fit great.


Those heatsinks are aluminum right? Curious to see how my copper heatsinks will do.


----------



## opt33

Agent-A01 said:


> Those heatsinks are aluminum right? Curious to see how my copper heatsinks will do.


yes aluminum. post up your results when you get them, interested to see how they work.


----------



## WayWayUp

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Gskill 8000 c38 kit on newegg now. Anyone try it?


you think there is any difference between that and the 7800 cl36?
i would rather have the 7800 kit TBH


----------



## Nizzen

WayWayUp said:


> you think there is any difference between that and the 7800 cl36?
> i would rather have the 7800 kit TBH


OCD on 8k is real 🙈


----------



## opt33

Nizzen said:


> OCD on 8k is real 🙈


I had it, but I think my PTSD trying to get 8000 on this 4 dimm mobo with my cpu just cured my OCD.


----------



## Dodgexander

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Gskill 8000 c38 kit on newegg now. Anyone try it?


They're already sold out.
This is great news though, they are priced similarly to Corsairs DDR5 7600 kit.
Others will follow suite and prices of slower A die must come down.


----------



## bsod_eliminator

VettePilot said:


> I am new to DDR5 and just put together my 13900k z790 Asus Gaming E build and noticed that DDR5 even with 2 sticks installed will report as Quad Channel in HWinfo and CPU-Z. This is normal I take it? My kit is a Gskill Trident 6600mhz 2x16 and I am running them in slots A2, B2. with XMP I enabled.


I am not the pro here, but I guess I can answer this one safe:
Yes, report as quad is normal and A2 B2 slots are correct.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> I had it, but I think my PTSD trying to get 8000 on this 4 dimm mobo with my cpu just cured my OCD.


I hate that feeling... always costs me A LOT of money!


----------



## J_Lab4645

Joe Borow said:


> saw the results on another forum
> it turns out that in order to get conditional *7600* from *adie *to z690, you need to change cpu to 13900k, sad


Not true. I have i9-12900KS that does better at 8000mhz than my i9-13900KF
......but, Z790 mobo are the difference.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> I hate that feeling... always costs me A LOT of money!


yep... but still glad I cooled dimms, put to rest 8000 question and 7800c36 only stable between 1.42-1.43v with higher causing temp errors didnt bode well for 24/7 stable with ambient change. Now temp/voltage issues gone, tried up to 1.60 vdd/vddq tm5 without problem. Currently testing 7800c34 at 1.47v (though gain is only ~1ns improved latency).

Ill be content with 7800c34 (30 mins stable so far) until much higher ram kits out. Any future dram kit is going in bitspower hs unless vendors improve cooling.


----------



## J_Lab4645

Nizzen said:


> Powersave on
> 8533c34 gaming profile.
> Worked for 2 hours in BF 2042, so it looks like it's pretty stable.





Nizzen said:


> With 6ghz all core 5,2ghz cache, no power save, no features enabled in bios, stripped windows. Then ~47ns is doable.
> 
> Around 50ns is very good for gaming on this platform, that's for shure!


Please tell me to get to the latency you have: Trefi isn't at 999999999999999999999


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Bitspower heatsinks arrived an hour ago (camera date is off), first pic tg7600 kit in bitspower hs with 13 w/mk pads 1.5mm back, 1.0mm on IC's, and 0.5mm (8 w/mk) on pmic.
> 
> max vdd/vddq before temp errors in 27C (internal case) ambient:
> stock heatsink--------1.45v max stable, 1.50v tm5 bsod in seconds.
> bare IC's---------------1.50v tm5 10 mins, 1.52v errors/reboot, IC temps must be ~5-6c lower based on needed drop in ambient to allow 1.5V.
> bitspower heatsink--1.55 tm5 10 mins no error, then ran 1.50v below (pic) for temp comparison with bare ic run (ambient/internal case temps 1.5C higher than bare ic run posted earlier), IC temps must be 10-11+C lower, as need that much lower ambient to run 1.55 tm5 10 mins).
> 
> Now can try 8000 given 7800c36 needs 1.43 vdd/vddq, so will have enough voltage headroom, though dont have high hopes of my cpu capable of 8000 on this 4 dimm mobo.
> 
> (btw alphacool $12 ddr heatsinks, and monarch, neither that I bought fit ddr5, only ddr4 apparently...too short only covered 3/4 ic chip), bitspower fit great.
> 
> View attachment 2586254
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586255


 Your bitspower heatsink on air not even water was that much cooler? Did you put TIM on where the heatsinks touch?

Used your own pads or was those provided?


----------



## rs199208

any suggestions on which thermal pads from microcenter will be beneficial to experiment with the bitspower heatsinks? thanks!
I'm heading there tonight to inspect their stock of pads in my hands. 


my new bitspower 4 dimm block arrived so i now have plenty of heatsinks, screws, and their included 1mm pads to experiment with lol! 
still only running 2 dimms, just wanted the extra parts and the larger water block.

bitspower actually responded back that they would replace my striped out screws also.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> yep... but still glad I cooled dimms, put to rest 8000 question and 7800c36 only stable between 1.42-1.43v with higher causing temp errors didnt bode well for 24/7 stable with ambient change. Now temp/voltage issues gone, tried up to 1.60 vdd/vddq tm5 without problem. Currently testing 7800c34 at 1.47v (though gain is only ~1ns improved latency).
> 
> Ill be content with 7800c34 (30 mins stable so far) until much higher ram kits out. Any future dram kit is going in bitspower hs unless vendors improve cooling.


are you going by the pmic temp showing in hwinfo for your temp readings? and what program/s do you use to test your temps with?


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> Your bitspower heatsink on air not even water was that much cooler? Did you put TIM on where the heatsinks touch?
> 
> Used your own pads or was those provided?


yep, just 24c ambient air, inside case 27C with 1400 rpm 120mm fan. 

I used 13 w/mk pads bought from amazon (no paste, no bitspower pads), so 10x thermal conductance as stock tape (ranges 0.6 to 1.5), and the pads also likely better at filling microairgaps....,similar issue when replacing old intel cpus 5 w/mk paste with 8x higher conductance liquid metal drastically lowering temps (though granted cpu higher power density).

The problem vendors have is thermal tape maxes at ~1.5 w/mk as materials needed for strong adhesion limit thermal conductance. though corsair probably using 1.6 variant and better heatsink hence allows higher voltage and less temp issues.


----------



## Dodgexander

@opt33 can you link where you bought the bitspower heatsinks? I want to make sure I'm getting the same ones.


----------



## newls1

Hows this look? Watercooling ram is neat


----------



## newls1

Dodgexander said:


> @opt33 can you link where you bought the bitspower heatsinks? I want to make sure I'm getting the same ones.


here -----> Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module (DDR5, Single-sided)


----------



## chibi

Anyone remove the Teamgroup 7600 heatsink yet? The RGB diffuser kind of wraps around and tucks in the heatsinks. Do I just heat them up and pry off the heatsinks and let the diffuser fall out by themselves?


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> are you going by the pmic temp showing in hwinfo for your temp readings? and what program/s do you use to test your temps with?


no, before finalizing install, i removed sliver of thermal pad from the thermal sensor above left to pmic, so not cooling temp sensor, just pmic. So temp "gradient" between IC and temp sensor will be lower, ie if spd 1c lower, IC temps would be more than 1c lower, but not a good way to estimate.

The only way to estimate junctional temps is compare same reduction in ambient temps required to run same voltage. IE, lowering ambient by 10C lowers IC junctional temps by 10C. Ambients must be lower by 10C (hence junctional temps by 10C) to get 1.55v to run tm5 10mins, and 8c lower still causes 1.55 to quickly err. thus if new heatsink/pads run tm5 10mins, then must have lowered ic temps by at least 10C.


----------



## chibi

@opt33 is this enough pads for the bitspower application? Or should I double up on the quantities?

1.5mm for back pcb
1.0mm for the pmic
0.5mm for the front memory chips


----------



## opt33

chibi said:


> Anyone remove the Teamgroup 7600 heatsink yet? The RGB diffuser kind of wraps around and tucks in the heatsinks. Do I just heat them up and pry off the heatsinks and let the diffuser fall out by themselves?


yep, that is what Im using in bitspower, I think true for all kits. remove both sides of heatsink, ignore the plastic rgp diffuser top, it just slides off once you removed both heatsinks. corsair, teamgroup, vcolor all worked that way.

I used this 3pack has 0.5, 1.0, 1.5mm for $14, actually it is 12.8w/mk, and had lots left over. 








Amazon.com: OwlTree 3 Pack Thermal Pad,100x100mm 0.5mm 1mm 1.5mm Highly Efficient Thermal Conductivity 12.8W/mK,Heat Resistant Silicone Grease Thermal Pads for Laptop Heatsink CPU GPU SSD IC LED Cooler : Electronics


Buy OwlTree 3 Pack Thermal Pad,100x100mm 0.5mm 1mm 1.5mm Highly Efficient Thermal Conductivity 12.8W/mK,Heat Resistant Silicone Grease Thermal Pads for Laptop Heatsink CPU GPU SSD IC LED Cooler: Heatsinks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## chibi

Wow that OwlTree package is a steal! Thanks for the tip, just ordered


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> yep, just 24c ambient air, inside case 27C with 1400 rpm 120mm fan.
> 
> I used 13 w/mk pads bought from amazon (no paste, no bitspower pads), so 10x thermal conductance as stock tape (ranges 0.6 to 1.5), and the pads also likely better at filling microairgaps....,similar issue when replacing old intel cpus 5 w/mk paste with 8x higher conductance liquid metal drastically lowering temps (though granted cpu higher power density).
> 
> The problem vendors have is thermal tape maxes at ~1.5 w/mk as materials needed for strong adhesion limit thermal conductance. though corsair probably using 1.6 variant and better heatsink hence allows higher voltage and less temp issues.


catch 22 isn't it... buy new a-die ram kit then kiss warranty goodbye by removing the heat sink haha the results sound good though...

Do you recall what your idle temps were? Not sure if its anything to go by with my current 40mm noctua air cooled 6400 gskill dimms they sitting at 30-31 degs give or take +10degs over ambient.


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> catch 22 isn't it... buy new a-die ram kit then kiss warranty goodbye by removing the heat sink haha the results sound good though...


Tape the heatsink back on if it's broken. Easy


----------



## chibi

^Yes, use double sided clear tape. Should be available at any hardware store.


----------



## newls1

opt33 said:


> no, before finalizing install, i removed sliver of thermal pad from the thermal sensor above left to pmic, so not cooling temp sensor, just pmic. So temp "gradient" between IC and temp sensor will be lower, ie if spd 1c lower, IC temps would be more than 1c lower, but not a good way to estimate.
> 
> The only way to estimate junctional temps is compare same reduction in ambient temps required to run same voltage. IE, lowering ambient by 10C lowers IC junctional temps by 10C. Ambients must be lower by 10C (hence junctional temps by 10C) to get 1.55v to run tm5 10mins, and 8c lower still causes 1.55 to quickly err. thus if new heatsink/pads run tm5 10mins, then must have lowered ic temps by at least 10C.


omg that made my head spin trying to understand that!!!!


----------



## opt33

yes, very easy to tape heat sinks back on, and can use best 1.6 w/mk tape vs whatever vendors using, and large rolls only cost like $8, and very easy to reapply, takes 2 minutes.

Here is repeat test/screenshot of tm5 running 10minutes at 27C (inside case temp) at 1.6 vdd/vddq with bitspower heatsinks. temps seem to be getting better as pads probably filling air gaps better from thermal cycling.


----------



## morph.

Hrmm fair enough never done it with ram... What about the back side of the dimms where no IC's are, how do they stick on / stay on (OEM heatsinks). Most thermal tape I'm seeing is around .2mm thick such as this one: Thermal Tape, 25m x 20mm x 0.2mm Double Side Thermal Adhesive Tapes Cooling Pad Apply to Heatsink, LED, IGBT, IC Chip, Computer CPU,GPU, Modules, MOS Tube, SSD Drives : Amazon.com.au: Computers actually claimed as 3.0 W/mK

Sigh are the gskill/team heat spreads just held together by thermal tape adhesive? no screws or anything? warm the modules off and gently pry the heatsinks off them?


----------



## rs199208

FujiPoly pads here at Microcenter. I must of forgot seeing them in search. 
They have extreme X-E 100×15×.5mm 11w/mk
and extreme X-M 60×50×1mm 17w/mk.
Aren't these one of the best?


----------



## morph.

Tempted to get a set of icemans they would sorta match my system aesthetically if I really get stuck and can use 13 W/mk pads on it...



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004494126969.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.777e1ea1TgRMaM&algo_pvid=e1cfedef-bc36-45be-801a-179cd4b9043d&algo_exp_id=e1cfedef-bc36-45be-801a-179cd4b9043d-4&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000029353610664%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%2180.41%2180.41%21%21%21%21%21%402101d91e16699399656177472ea87d%2112000029353610664%21sea&curPageLogUid=ChDp6onCtpTC



Mind you I'm dragging my feet so I can maybe buy a set of 8000 DIMMs... Or should I just get 7200/7600 and save the money.

@owikh84 what's your verdict on it noticed you got some with this post: _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability... Sounds like still less efficient with cooling than bare with you... Oomph noticed a few posts further you mentioned bitspower seemed better on air?


----------



## Agent-A01

chibi said:


> @opt33 is this enough pads for the bitspower application? Or should I double up on the quantities?
> 
> 1.5mm for back pcb
> 1.0mm for the pmic
> 0.5mm for the front memory chips
> View attachment 2586376


Gelid is too expensive, besides owl tree new arctic TG-3 is a good option for cheap



morph. said:


> Sigh are the gskill/team heat spreads just held together by thermal tape adhesive? no screws or anything? warm the modules off and gently pry the heatsinks off them?


That's how all ram heatsinks are attached(stock).


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> Hrmm fair enough never done it with ram... What about the back side of the dimms where no IC's are, how do they stick on / stay on (OEM heatsinks). Most thermal tape I'm seeing is around .2mm thick such as this one: Thermal Tape, 25m x 20mm x 0.2mm Double Side Thermal Adhesive Tapes Cooling Pad Apply to Heatsink, LED, IGBT, IC Chip, Computer CPU,GPU, Modules, MOS Tube, SSD Drives : Amazon.com.au: Computers actually claimed as 3.0 W/mK
> 
> Sigh are the gskill/team heat spreads just held together by thermal tape adhesive? no screws or anything? warm the modules off and gently pry the heatsinks off them?


3 w/mk would be great, but amazon descriptions rarely accurate, saw one that said 2 w/mk, looked up at manufacturer site said 1.5w. if said that on package would be different.

vcolor, corsair Ic and back side both hairdryer 60 seconds back and forth then pry apart, left no residue.

TG kit IC side same. back side TG has dense black adhesive foam and I had to do what Nizzen described plastic knife and scraped stock heatsink side to get it off while prying after heating (scratching heatsink if anything), then used heat and rubbing to removed black adhesive from dram substrate.


----------



## newls1

morph. said:


> Tempted to get a set of icemans they would sorta match my system aesthetically if I really get stuck and can use 13 W/mk pads on it...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004494126969.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.777e1ea1TgRMaM&algo_pvid=e1cfedef-bc36-45be-801a-179cd4b9043d&algo_exp_id=e1cfedef-bc36-45be-801a-179cd4b9043d-4&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000029353610664%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%2180.41%2180.41%21%21%21%21%21%402101d91e16699399656177472ea87d%2112000029353610664%21sea&curPageLogUid=ChDp6onCtpTC
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you I'm dragging my feet so I can maybe buy a set of 8000 DIMMs... Or should I just get 7200/7600 and save the money.
> 
> @owikh84 what's your verdict on it noticed you got some with this post: _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability... Sounds like still less efficient with cooling than bare with you...


man i like those......


----------



## Dodgexander

If I pass tests but get weird issues like apps displaying with corruption or the start menu stopping working, I'm guessing it's unstable?


----------



## opt33

Dodgexander said:


> If I pass tests but get weird issues like apps displaying with corruption or the start menu stopping working, I'm guessing it's unstable?


I had that happen few times, apps crash before test shows error.., if run test longer it will err, but already know not stable.


----------



## warbucks

morph. said:


> Tempted to get a set of icemans they would sorta match my system aesthetically if I really get stuck and can use 13 W/mk pads on it...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004494126969.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.777e1ea1TgRMaM&algo_pvid=e1cfedef-bc36-45be-801a-179cd4b9043d&algo_exp_id=e1cfedef-bc36-45be-801a-179cd4b9043d-4&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000029353610664%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%2180.41%2180.41%21%21%21%21%21%402101d91e16699399656177472ea87d%2112000029353610664%21sea&curPageLogUid=ChDp6onCtpTC
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you I'm dragging my feet so I can maybe buy a set of 8000 DIMMs... Or should I just get 7200/7600 and save the money.
> 
> @owikh84 what's your verdict on it noticed you got some with this post: _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability... Sounds like still less efficient with cooling than bare with you... Oomph noticed a few posts further you mentioned bitspower seemed better on air?


Most 7600 kits will do 8000Mhz with decent cooling. I would save the money, grab a 7600 kit and throw the money saved towards better cooling.

My G.Skill 7600 Kit is doing 8200Mhz using air cooling over the dimms. These are going under water soon using the supercool dimm blocks.


----------



## morph.

warbucks said:


> Most 7600 kits will do 8000Mhz with decent cooling. I would save the money, grab a 7600 kit and throw the money saved towards better cooling.
> 
> My G.Skill 7600 Kit is doing 8200Mhz using air cooling over the dimms. These are going under water soon using the supercool dimm blocks.


Naked? Oem heat spreader?


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> 3 w/mk would be great, but amazon descriptions rarely accurate, saw one that said 2 w/mk, looked up at manufacturer site said 1.5w. if said that on package would be different.
> 
> vcolor, corsair Ic and back side both hairdryer 60 seconds back and forth then pry apart, left no residue.
> 
> TG kit IC side same. back side TG has dense black adhesive foam and I had to do what Nizzen described plastic knife and scraped stock heatsink side to get it off while prying after heating (scratching heatsink if anything), then used heat and rubbing to removed black adhesive from dram substrate.


One more thing, why did you use pads on the IC side over TIM?


----------



## morph.

wonder how these would perform heh: Bykski DDR5 Memory Copper Air Cooling Armor (B-MRC-X ) they do look aesthetically nice


----------



## opt33

morph. said:


> One more thing, why did you use pads on the IC side over TIM?


I doubt you would be able to get enough even pressure on each of 8 ics with tim, especially given screws on heatsinks are only at top.


----------



## 673714

opt33 said:


> ...
> 
> I used this 3pack has 0.5, 1.0, 1.5mm for $14, actually it is 12.8w/mk, and had lots left over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: OwlTree 3 Pack Thermal Pad,100x100mm 0.5mm 1mm 1.5mm Highly Efficient Thermal Conductivity 12.8W/mK,Heat Resistant Silicone Grease Thermal Pads for Laptop Heatsink CPU GPU SSD IC LED Cooler : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy OwlTree 3 Pack Thermal Pad,100x100mm 0.5mm 1mm 1.5mm Highly Efficient Thermal Conductivity 12.8W/mK,Heat Resistant Silicone Grease Thermal Pads for Laptop Heatsink CPU GPU SSD IC LED Cooler: Heatsinks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


I am so tempted to buy a pack of these pads but I don't have any heat spreaders to pair them with


----------



## rs199208

I went with the 1mm thermal grizzly minus 8 pads to try out on the IC side at least or more.
I'll have to try the pads sold online eventually.
Microcenter now has gskill 6400 rgb M & A die priced at $214 also, so no need to price match newegg.


----------



## KedarWolf

I know A-Die is okay with higher voltages. But what about M-Die? Like how high can you go on VDDIO?

I'm getting a 6600MHz M-Die kit Monday.


----------



## morph.

KedarWolf said:


> I know A-Die is okay with higher voltages. But what about M-Die? Like how high can you go on VDDIO?
> 
> I'm getting a 6600MHz M-Die kit Monday.


Interesting I thought most kits above 6400 are a-die. A-die would be the better purchase anyway imho.


----------



## KedarWolf

morph. said:


> Interesting I thought most kits above 6400 are a-die. A-die would be the better purchase anyway imho.


I bought a 6600MHz V-Color kit and contacted their technical support before it shipped as I knew it might be A-Die.

They have A-Die models and M-Die models of that same kit, and after I told them I HAD to have M-Die as I already own their A-Die kit, they made sure they sent me the M-Die version, even sent me an HWInfo screenshot to confirm it's M-Die.

Highly recommend them, they've been awesome, and in reviews, their kits are outperforming pretty much everyone else.

Edit: It's for a 7950x, not Intel, and I want to see if the M-Die will do better timings at 6400MHz. That's as high as I can go, so M-Die might actually get better timings, and at lower RAM speeds they sometimes do better.


----------



## KedarWolf

newls1 said:


> man i like those......


I have Icemans on the way from Aliexpress.

They are only a bit over $50 from the Aliexpress Icemans store though, the same ones.


----------



## morph.

KedarWolf said:


> I bought a 6600MHz V-Color kit and contacted their technical support before it shipped as I knew it might be A-Die.
> 
> They have A-Die models and M-Die models of that same kit, and after I told them I HAD to have M-Die as I already own their A-Die kit, they made sure they sent me the M-Die version, even sent me an HWInfo screenshot to confirm it's M-Die.
> 
> Highly recommend them, they've been awesome, and in reviews, their kits are outperforming pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Edit: It's for a 7950x, not Intel, and I want to see if the M-Die will do better timings at 6400MHz. That's as high as I can go, so M-Die might actually get better timings, and at lower RAM speeds they sometimes do better.


Ah I see fair enough hows hwinfo show what die you have wasn't aware that was possible?


----------



## KedarWolf

morph. said:


> Ah I see fair enough hows hwinfo show what die you have wasn't aware that was possible?


If it's A-Die, it'll show N/A, if it's M-Die, it'll say M-Die, under Memory, DRAM Stepping.


----------



## morph.

KedarWolf said:


> If it's A-Die, it'll show N/A, if it's M-Die, it'll say M-Die, under Memory, DRAM Stepping.


interesting got a screen shot to show what you mean I don't see that field


----------



## KedarWolf

morph. said:


> interesting got a screen shot to show what you mean I don't see that field


----------



## morph.

KedarWolf said:


> View attachment 2586396


interesting never even seen that screen before in hwinfo lol..


----------



## KedarWolf

morph. said:


> interesting never even seen that screen before in hwinfo lol..


You don't do Sensors only, have both running.


----------



## morph.

KedarWolf said:


> You don't do Sensors only, have both running.


Interesting under stepping says 0.0 for me heh...


----------



## asdkj1740

z390e said:


> Now, we did show some respect and sympathy, for more than a year, in its proper thread and many other threads. But now, since it is z790, people are just beating a dead horse.
> 
> People really don't need come into every thread where a user with a good Apex posted a good score and remind everyone how there are bad Apex's that can't hit those scores. We know.


yes we all know that but asus refuses to acknowledge that.
according to jayztwocents there are even cases of z690 hero rma in us got refused after the recall.
you should never expect rma is too easy for everyone all over the world. in reality in fact lots of places have extremely bad rma service.

some of them went too far as if good apex (2022 and few 2021) are fake product / must be sent by asus for free etc.
there is just one way to solve this issue, asus goes public and accept their rma without bs.


----------



## OC2000

chibi said:


> Anyone remove the Teamgroup 7600 heatsink yet? The RGB diffuser kind of wraps around and tucks in the heatsinks. Do I just heat them up and pry off the heatsinks and let the diffuser fall out by themselves?





















Used a hair dryer. No need to remove diffuser first. The side without the ram modules is tough to get off.


----------



## asdkj1740

OC2000 said:


> Used a hair dryer. No need to remove diffuser first. The side without the ram modules is tough to get off.


any petition of no heatsink please to dram vendors?

btw it seems only teamgroup is using thick enough thermal pad for pmic, others are with thermal "sheet" and make no contact to pmic chip but only chokes.
the world best solution clearly goes to some design with air pad.


----------



## Carillo

To you guys delidding G.skill memory kits. Just run mem test for a few minutes, no hair dryer or heat gun needed, works great  . You want to find your A and B stick before you mount the water block anyway


----------



## asdkj1740

Carillo said:


> To you guys delidding G.skill memory kits. Just run mem test for a few minutes, no hair dryer or heat gun needed, works great  . You want to find your A and B stick before you mount the water block anyway


please stop trashing gskill, you went too far just like those apex 2021 users.


----------



## asdkj1740

credits go to bianbao





这届高频D5的耐温都成老大难问题了。 - 电脑讨论(新) - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


这届高频D5的耐温都成老大难问题了。,8000或以上频率且小参最优的情况下，如果还不加风扇，且要求玩大型3A不闪退，TREFI都不能给五位数。最低都已经试到12800了，依然是TM5显示的温度到了57 58度开始报错，玩 ...,电脑讨论(新),讨论区-技术与经验的讨论 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com













again, gskill no.1


----------



## OC2000

Carillo said:


> To you guys delidding G.skill memory kits. Just run mem test for a few minutes, no hair dryer or heat gun needed, works great  . You want to find your A and B stick before you mount the water block anyway


Playing Cyberpunk for 5 minutes works too. My G.Skill heatsinks fell apart nicely on their own while still in the socket


----------



## OC2000

TG 7200 @ 8000 set to 1.41V in Bios. No water block on yet.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> please stop trashing gskill, you went too far just like those apex 2021 users.


Where does he trash g.skill?
He just tested g.skill 7600kit and has 8000kit on it's way


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Where does he trash g.skill?
> He just tested g.skill 7600kit and has 8000kit on it's way


i love gskill.
that is a good cause when rma got denied by "heatsink removed".


----------



## asdkj1740

Test Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5 7200 Mt/s : Hynix A-Die inside


Aujourd'hui on vous amène dans un voyage vers le futur avec le kit Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5 7200 Mt/s. Vers le futur qu'Intel a défini




pausehardware.com




kingston fury renegade seems to use screws instead of tape to mount the heatsink


----------



## Carillo

asdkj1740 said:


> i love gskill.
> that is a good cause when rma got denied by "heatsink removed".


I have tested close to 30 ddr5 kits since 2021, have not sent a single kit to RMA, neither have i needed to. So let me worry about that.


----------



## bigfootnz

Yesterday I installed water block on my RAM and I'm blow away how it is easy to OC DDR5 under water. With water cooling OC is like this, try to find lowest possible timing that board will post. Then test max 15 min with Karhu and go again. Like this I was I able to find 7200C32 as tight as possible on my board, just in 2 hours. With water there is no need testing for hours as RAM on 30C is either stable or not. There is no problem with cold starts/reboots. 

If I knew this previously I would never try to OC DDR5 on Air, that it is just too painful.


----------



## newls1

bigfootnz said:


> Yesterday I installed water block on my RAM and I'm blow away how it is easy to OC DDR5 under water. With water cooling OC is like this, try to find lowest possible timing that board will post. Then test max 15 min with Karhu and go again. Like this I was I able to find 7200C32 as tight as possible on my board, just in 2 hours. With water there is no need testing for hours as RAM on 30C is either stable or not. There is no problem with cold starts/reboots.
> 
> If I knew this previously I would never try to OC DDR5 on Air, that it is just too painful.


pics?


----------



## Nizzen

bigfootnz said:


> Yesterday I installed water block on my RAM and I'm blow away how it is easy to OC DDR5 under water. With water cooling OC is like this, try to find lowest possible timing that board will post. Then test max 15 min with Karhu and go again. Like this I was I able to find 7200C32 as tight as possible on my board, just in 2 hours. With water there is no need testing for hours as RAM on 30C is either stable or not. There is no problem with cold starts/reboots.
> 
> If I knew this previously I would never try to OC DDR5 on Air, that it is just too painful.


We learned this on ddr4. Dual Rank ddr4 @ 4700c17 1t, and watercooling is easy mode


----------



## bigfootnz

newls1 said:


> pics?


----------



## Craftyman

When is the Gigabyte Tachyon dropping? MSI gonna do a Unify-X? Hope Apex gets some competition


----------



## Nisa

Carillo said:


> ... You want to find your A and B stick before you mount the water block anyway


What does it mean?


----------



## Carillo

Nisa said:


> What does it mean?


You want to find the best stick and use that one in the slot closest to the cpu


----------



## themad

Carillo said:


> You want to find the best stick and use that one in the slot closest to the cpu


But shouldn't it be the other way around? If the best stick is closest to the CPU, definitely the second slot and stick will both be limiting overall "overclockability" (due to both worst stick and farthest lane). If the best stick is the farthest, both sticks would more or less average, wouldn't they?


----------



## Carillo

themad said:


> But shouldn't it be the other way around? If the best stick is closest to the CPU, definitely the second slot and stick will both be limiting overall "overclockability" (due to both worst stick and farthest lane). If the best stick is the farthest, both sticks would more or less average, wouldn't they?


No. The slot closest to the cpu is the "worst" ( hardest for IMC ), that's why you want the best stick there. Has nothing to do with geographical location


----------



## themad

Carillo said:


> No. The slot closest to the cpu is the "worst" ( hardest for IMC ), that's why you want the best stick there. Has nothing to do with geographical location


Hmmm, thanks for clarifying! I had assumed exactly the opposite, based on geographical location to be honest.
Well, another step to take note of then.


----------



## sulalin

This is a while ago. In mainland China, the official event of Asus mainland China. Players can buy Z690 apex with a 50% discount of the official price of 5,499 yuan, which is about 2,730 yuan. Exchange for Z790 APEX. There are 200 lucky people. You can use this. Method: Buy the 21-year apex for 790 apex at half price. I don't know if there is the same activity in other countries and regions? There is no such activity in Taiwan.


----------



## Muut

*8266 c36-48-48-52* 

I take back what I said the other day, it is possible to do sub 50ns on Aida with Raptor lake and a stable daily profile


----------



## newls1

bigfootnz said:


> View attachment 2586415


i was kind of looking for install pics but that will work too


----------



## Agent-A01

Carillo said:


> To you guys delidding G.skill memory kits. Just run mem test for a few minutes, no hair dryer or heat gun needed, works great  . You want to find your A and B stick before you mount the water block anyway


Strongly recommend not to do that, I ran mine on XMP(to not error) with no cooling until SPD sensor hit high 60s.
Quickly pulled it out and trying to remove the heatsink caused a memory IC to rip off.

Although the tape did feel soft its adhesion was still too strong.


----------



## Nizzen

8400c34 is now pretty easy to get stable with 0040 bios. 8533 is gaming stable, but not Karhu stable over 1hour yet with c34 pretty tight  Still have to try the newest 005 bios 
On topic picture:


----------



## Nisa

Where can I download bios for z790 apex? rog.asus.com Shamino raptorlake resources only 801


----------



## Nizzen

Nisa said:


> Where can I download bios for z790 apex? rog.asus.com Shamino raptorlake resources only 801


0040





bianbao.dev


something you need




bianbao.dev





A few moments newer than 0040 is 0005:








ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-APEX-ASUS-0005.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Carillo

Agent-A01 said:


> Strongly recommend not to do that, I ran mine on XMP(to not error) with no cooling until SPD sensor hit high 60s.
> Quickly pulled it out and trying to remove the heatsink caused a memory IC to rip off.
> 
> Although the tape did feel soft its adhesion was still too strong.


LOL, HOW is that possible ??? There is NO glue on IC side, only a sticky thermal pad. Did you use a crowbar or hammer ??


----------



## Carillo

Nizzen said:


> 8400c34 is now pretty easy to get stable with 0040 bios. 8533 is gaming stable, but not Karhu stable over 1hour yet with c34 pretty tight  Still have to try the newest 005 bios
> On topic picture:
> 
> View attachment 2586453
> View attachment 2586453
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586447
> 
> View attachment 2586447


Sick OC bro


----------



## z390e

asdkj1740 said:


> please stop trashing gskill, you went too far just like those apex 2021 users.



There is one big difference between you and others bringing up ASUS motherboards in this thread, and the post about G.Skill.

The big difference is this is the DDR5 OC thread, not the Apex thread. Glad I could help you see this difference so you can remember to post motherboard comments over in the motherboard section and keep DDR5 OC posts on topic, like the discussion about G.Skill DDR5 is.


----------



## motivman

Is this a good overclock on M-die? This is my team group ddr5 6400 kit CL40 kit. I gave up trying to overclock my Gskill A-die 7600 kit on my Unify-X because I get errors even on XMP. Hopefully I get some stability on that kit when my Z790 Apex comes in. For now, I will stick with the Unify-x and my M-die Kit.


----------



## Agent-A01

Carillo said:


> LOL, HOW is that possible ??? There is NO glue on IC side, only a sticky thermal pad. Did you use a crowbar or hammer ??


Nope, a plastic spudger. Not the first time I've removed memory heatsinks either.

And it's not a thermal pad, double-sided adhesive tape has a very strong bond unless heated adequately.
A few mins on memory stress testing is obviously not enough.

Stick to heat gun or soaking it in isopropyl alcohol as it is the only foolproof method.


----------



## themad

Agent-A01 said:


> ...soaking it in isopropyl alcohol as it is the only foolproof method.


I assume this works the same as with paint thinner? Just soak for a few hours and wait for the heatsinks to detach?


----------



## Rexbag

Hi all. I'm building a 13700k machine on this mini-ITX mobo and just ordered this G.Skill RipJaws S5 Series 2x32GB DDR5 6000 CL32-38-38-96 kit.

My questions:

1) How can I tell if this is likely to be Hynix M-die as opposed to Samsung? On my Ryzen 5900x system I've got a lot of experience now tweaking my DDR4 and I'd like to do some tweaking on this DDR5 setup, and my understanding is that Hynix M-die is going to be my best bet. From something I heard Buildzoid say it would seem these may be Hynix because the rest of the primaries aren't 36, which he said would indicate it was probably Samsung.

2) How hard is it going to be to push this 2x32GB kit up to higher frequencies? I know, silicon lottery, etc. I'm talking about the fact that it's two two-channel DIMMs as opposed to two single-channel DIMMs. I understand that the two two-channel DIMMs will stress the IMC harder and therefor it's likely I won't be able to push these as hard as, say, two 16GB DIMMs that were otherwise the same. It's not four DIMMs, which I've read is significantly harder to push on DDR5 than it was on DDR4 with b-die, but how similar is the situation of two two-channel DIMMs compared to the difficulty of tweaking four single-channel DIMMs?

3) I decided on 64GB of memory because one of the things I'll be doing on this machine is video editing using 4K clips in Adobe Premiere Pro. There's a non-trivial chance that this could actually use more than 32GB of RAM. I'm taking a gamble that the potential speedup of having over 32GB of RAM will exceed the potential loss of tweaked speed and timings due to the two dual-channel DIMMs, but I don't know this for a fact. It kind of depends on how much harder it is to tweak these two 32GB DIMMs as compared to M-die 16GB DIMMs.


----------



## chibi

themad said:


> I assume this works the same as with paint thinner? Just soak for a few hours and wait for the heatsinks to detach?


30 mins - 1 hr should be plenty if you go with the isopropyl alcohol method.


----------



## dante`afk

Carillo said:


> You want to find your A and B stick before you mount the water block anyway


what’s that?


----------



## CptSpig

dante`afk said:


> what’s that?


From Carillo "The slot closest to the cpu is the "worst" ( hardest for IMC ), that's why you want the best stick there. "


----------



## Muut

motivman said:


> Is this a good overclock on M-die? This is my team group ddr5 6400 kit CL40 kit. I gave up trying to overclock my Gskill A-die 7600 kit on my Unify-X because I get errors even on XMP. Hopefully I get some stability on that kit when my Z790 Apex comes in. For now, I will stick with the Unify-x and my M-die Kit.
> 
> View attachment 2586459


It's pretty good ! have you enabled "Round Trip Latency" option in the advanced dram options ? 
Here was my 7000 c32 profile if you want to try tightening the last few timings you may still have headroom (my motherboard was the dark, not the UX) :


----------



## jonny.brechbuehl

hey guys, i've mounted a fan over the ram sticks. Whats better for temp? blow direction to top or to bottom? thx


----------



## don1376

I put these on my with extra piece of thermal pad on PMIC and dropped temp of my m-die running 7200 at 1.56v down to 42.6c max with fan blowing on them also. Stock heatsink and no heatsink would get up to almost 60c and error. Cost $20 plus 2 pieces of thermal pad for PMIC. 
LM YN Desktop Memory RAM Cooler Heat Sink Pure Copper - Pack of 2 https://a.co/d/hkFn0uS


----------



## pipes

don1376 said:


> I put these on my with extra piece of thermal pad on PMIC and dropped temp of my m-die running 7200 at 1.56v down to 42.6c max with fan blowing on them also. Stock heatsink and no heatsink would get up to almost 60c and error. Cost $20 plus 2 pieces of thermal pad for PMIC.
> LM YN Desktop Memory RAM Cooler Heat Sink Pure Copper - Pack of 2 https://a.co/d/hkFn0uS


Thanks for share this...what have you use to fix on ram?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## bigfootnz

newls1 said:


> i was kind of looking for install pics but that will work too


OK, here are install pics


----------



## chibi

asdkj1740 said:


> Test Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5 7200 Mt/s : Hynix A-Die inside
> 
> 
> Aujourd'hui on vous amène dans un voyage vers le futur avec le kit Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5 7200 Mt/s. Vers le futur qu'Intel a défini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pausehardware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingston fury renegade seems to use screws instead of tape to mount the heatsink


Nice find, the part number for this kit should actually be *SKU*: *KF572C38RSK2-32.*
I'll probably send back my teamgroup sticks as this kingston kit is fairly well priced for decent spec and no rgb.


----------



## Muut

asdkj1740 said:


> Test Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5 7200 Mt/s : Hynix A-Die inside
> 
> 
> Aujourd'hui on vous amène dans un voyage vers le futur avec le kit Kingston FURY Renegade DDR5 7200 Mt/s. Vers le futur qu'Intel a défini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pausehardware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingston fury renegade seems to use screws instead of tape to mount the heatsink


I have some and they have Indeed screws

View attachment 2586508


----------



## acoustic

Kingston has the best stock heatspreaders on the market (maybe only Corsair Dominators beating them) and they're pricing their products really fairly. They deserve more business.


----------



## don1376

pipes said:


> Thanks for share this...what have you use to fix on ram?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


They come with adhisive thermal tape long bottom that sticks to ICs great. Not sure what the thermal rating is on it. And then added a square of my own believe was .5 thermal pad over PMIC. With fan blowing on them 1.56v and 2 hours of stress testing max temp was little under 42c. Prior 1.5v at 6800mhz would climb close to 60c and error with stock heatsinks and bare. I'm running Kingston Renegades 6400mhz @7200. M-die Also running tREFI at 130xxx which causes more heat. Not sure exact number not at PC.


----------



## don1376

acoustic said:


> Kingston has the best stock heatspreaders on the market (maybe only Corsair Dominators beating them) and they're pricing their products really fairly. They deserve more business.


My stock Kingston heatsinks were just flimsy really thin aluminum. Soaked them in acetone for 15 mins and they feel off taking out the bowl. Removed the small screw in each corner first of course.


----------



## acoustic

don1376 said:


> My stock Kingston heatsinks were just flimsy really thin aluminum. Soaked them in acetone for 15 mins and they feel off taking out the bowl. Removed the small screw in each corner first of course.


if you think thats flimsy or thin, check out teamgroup and gskill lolol


----------



## chibi

Muut said:


> I have some and they have Indeed screws
> 
> View attachment 2586508
> View attachment 2586511


Do you have the 7200 kit? If so, how well do they clock?


----------



## Muut

chibi said:


> Do you have the 7200 kit? If so, how well do they clock?



no I have the m-die 6400 c32 and they are really great. These are the ones I used to bench 8000 c32 ambiant. However I plan to buy to a die ones as they are the cheapest in France among all a die kits. Plus I have always been happy with kingston heatsinks.


----------



## Agent-A01

themad said:


> I assume this works the same as with paint thinner? Just soak for a few hours and wait for the heatsinks to detach?


Better in fact.

What I do is angle the dimms so I can pour alcohol directly onto the ICs.
No need to soak them IMO, just pour some pry a little and repeat until it's removed.

The heatsink usually lets loose after a few mins of that.

Soaking them in acetone or whatever can also run the risk of destroying the factor stickers(serial number)



bigfootnz said:


> OK, here are install pics
> View attachment 2586506
> View attachment 2586507


Dual D5 pump for 2 rads is completely unnecessary. 
You could make your loop a lot less complicated if you want to


----------



## don1376

Agent-A01 said:


> Better in fact.
> 
> What I do is angle the dimms so I can pour alcohol directly onto the ICs.
> No need to soak them IMO, just pour some pry a little and repeat until it's removed.
> 
> The heatsink usually lets loose after a few mins of that.
> 
> Soaking them in acetone or whatever can also run the risk of destroying the factor stickers(serial number)
> 
> 
> 
> Dual D5 pump for 2 rads is completely unnecessary.
> You could make your loop a lot less complicated if you want to


I guess depends on the brand. Acetone didn't even smudge or make the factory sticker even peel up at all on mine. I believe they are made for it not to affect them. I work with car ecus. Opening them up to soldier tiny wires to certain spots to connect a comm port for recovering them when a flash goes bad and they brick. It's pretty common in electronics to soak in acetone. I have to, to remove the waterproofing film off the board that's applied to keep moisture from hurting them. For ram no prying is needed, soak for a bit. Pickup and take them right off, but please do whichever way you're more comfortable with. Don't think you'll be able to warranty them after removing heat spreaders anyway. Could be wrong.


----------



## SoldierRBT

13900KF 55/43/45 1.16v LLC7
8400 34-47-47 1.65v


----------



## kunit13

Is there is difference in binning 7200 vs 7600 Team group sticks? The team group 7200 are $100 cheaper then when I bought them 2 weeks ago. 

Thanks,


----------



## tubs2x4

SoldierRBT said:


> 13900KF 55/43/45 1.16v LLC7
> 8400 34-47-47 1.65v
> View attachment 2586557


Llc7 on asus would be like no vdroop.. is there a problem running it like this?


----------



## morph.

Agent-A01 said:


> Strongly recommend not to do that, I ran mine on XMP(to not error) with no cooling until SPD sensor hit high 60s.
> Quickly pulled it out and trying to remove the heatsink caused a memory IC to rip off.
> 
> Although the tape did feel soft its adhesion was still too strong.


Did you just pull it or twist?


----------



## SoldierRBT

tubs2x4 said:


> Llc7 on asus would be like no vdroop.. is there a problem running it like this?


Works fine. 1.16v LLC7 I get 1.11v underload on Y-Cruncher SFT test.


----------



## bigfootnz

Agent-A01 said:


> Better in fact.
> 
> What I do is angle the dimms so I can pour alcohol directly onto the ICs.
> No need to soak them IMO, just pour some pry a little and repeat until it's removed.
> 
> The heatsink usually lets loose after a few mins of that.
> 
> Soaking them in acetone or whatever can also run the risk of destroying the factor stickers(serial number)
> 
> 
> 
> Dual D5 pump for 2 rads is completely unnecessary.
> You could make your loop a lot less complicated if you want to


Firstly, it is triple radiations.

Secondly, you are saying that it is better to run one [email protected]% than 2x [email protected]%?

Thirdly, removing second D5 wouldn’t make loop anything less complicated. This pump was just added on hose between GPU and radiator.


----------



## opt33

7800c34 4hrs karhu, ~8hrs gaming and tm5 stable. 1.48 vdd/vddq, 1.25 sa, 1.37 imc, and 1.48 vddq tx (likely can lower vddq tx, started with auto for gaming).
Bitspower heatsinks and fan made a-die easy to OC on air despite 27C inside case (24c external air) ...just need 2 dimm mobo for 8000+.


----------



## Agent-A01

don1376 said:


> I guess depends on the brand. Acetone didn't even smudge or make the factory sticker even peel up at all on mine. I believe they are made for it not to affect them. I work with car ecus. Opening them up to soldier tiny wires to certain spots to connect a comm port for recovering them when a flash goes bad and they brick. It's pretty common in electronics to soak in acetone. I have to, to remove the waterproofing film off the board that's applied to keep moisture from hurting them. For ram no prying is needed, soak for a bit. Pickup and take them right off, but please do whichever way you're more comfortable with. Don't think you'll be able to warranty them after removing heat spreaders anyway. Could be wrong.


Maybe I'm mistaking it with mineral spirits or paint thinner. I used some a long time ago and it started melting a serial number away.
But like you said, some stickers may be more resistant than others.

With isopropyl alcohol you don't need to submerge(not necessary to use a lot of it) something and wait for a while to work.

I guess you could let it soak so you didn't have to pry but I've only had to use minimal amount of prying on removing adhesives.



bigfootnz said:


> Firstly, it is triple radiations.
> 
> Secondly, you are saying that it is better to run one [email protected]% than 2x [email protected]%?
> 
> Thirdly, removing second D5 wouldn’t make loop anything less complicated. This pump was just added on hose between GPU and radiator.


I must have had my blinders on as I only counted two.

As for the D5, I'd say one with 50% is sufficient .

I use 1 with 2 WBs and 3 rads which are fairly restrictive.
Idle is only about 2c above ambient and gaming sees about 8-10c over ambient in games(GPU 430W + 100W~ CPU) with about 1200rpms.

and maybe complicated is the wrong word. Removing it would 'clean' up the loop. 
But if you don't care about how it looks than it's fine.



morph. said:


> Did you just pull it or twist?


Pryed in the middle of the heatsink with a fairly wide spudger, the same way I've always done it.

That's the safest way to do it as it distributes force better than trying it at the edges.
The heatsink came off without too much difficulty but it ripped the far right IC off.


----------



## asdkj1740

klevv 5600mhz a die stick is available now.
it is said the pmic used supports oc mode as well.
~90usd each 16g stick.


----------



## bigfootnz

Agent-A01 said:


> I must have had my blinders on as I only counted two.
> 
> As for the D5, I'd say one with 50% is sufficient .
> 
> I use 1 with 2 WBs and 3 rads which are fairly restrictive.
> Idle is only about 2c above ambient and gaming sees about 8-10c over ambient in games(GPU 430W + 100W~ CPU) with about 1200rpms.
> 
> and maybe complicated is the wrong word. Removing it would 'clean' up the loop.
> But if you don't care about how it looks than it's fine.


Do you have flow meter in your loop? I'm not sure what kind of D5 you have but with two [email protected]% in my loop I'm managing only 0.5gpm and I've only one 90 degree bend. Previously I had 2 radiators and 2 WB with one D5 and I was able to hit 0.5gpm only around [email protected]%. With your look and [email protected]% you are much below recommended flow of 0.5gpm

Regrading look, as you can see my loop is all about functionality and possibility to easy swap any part even mobo without draining loop.


----------



## Nizzen

kunit13 said:


> Is there is difference in binning 7200 vs 7600 Team group sticks? The team group 7200 are $100 cheaper then when I bought them 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Thanks,


Ask @team group 

Possibility is always greater with the higher "teer" kit. 

How kits are scaling with "voltage" is different. That's why some cheap kit's can overclock higher than more expensive once. High voltage and low temperatures, and the "rules" are changing


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> How kits are scaling with "voltage" is different. That's why some cheap kit's can overclock higher than more expensive once. High voltage and low temperatures, and the "rules" are changing


Yeah when I see you guys are running 8000+ speeds and only ~30C load on the memory, I know it's watercooled 
For us mortal beings on air, those speeds are unrealistic. What is the limit on air cooling - 7200?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Yeah when I see you guys are running 8000+ speeds and only ~30C load on the memory, I know it's watercooled
> For us mortal beings on air, those speeds are unrealistic. What is the limit on air cooling - 7200?


G.skill 7600 kit I tested was no problem @ xmp tweaked on air 1.4v. Over 1.4v and it's harder to cool in a case, and you need direct fan. 

Worst case scenario with small case with no airflow around the dimms, and it's hard to get stable. Just like ddr4


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> G.skill 7600 kit I tested was no problem @ xmp tweaked on air 1.4v. Over 1.4v and it's harder to cool in a case, and you need direct fan.
> 
> Worst case scenario with small case with no airflow around the dimms, and it's hard to get stable. Just like ddr4


Gskills runs 1.4v ok but anything more and it's hard to get consistent stability. I'm waiting for my 7800C36 kit and I'm not gonna waste time it's going under water with my Z790 Apex.

My Kingston's Fury Beast non-RGB at 6800C30 at 1.56V runs significantly cooler than G.skill at 1.4V with a ram cooler. Those Kingston kits may look flimsy but the cooling is one of the best I've seen due to the design of the heatsink that allows air to enter the ram directly. These kits have PMIC thermal pads but don't expect the RGB ones to run similarly cool as it blocks out the air channels directly into the RAM.


----------



## DanGleeballs

Carillo said:


> You want to find the best stick and use that one in the slot closest to the cpu


I understand the idea. What's the most efficient way of doing this?
Just set a voltage and see how far you can boot one stick at a time?


----------



## morph.

bigfootnz said:


> Firstly, it is triple radiations.
> 
> Secondly, you are saying that it is better to run one [email protected]% than 2x [email protected]%?
> 
> Thirdly, removing second D5 wouldn’t make loop anything less complicated. This pump was just added on hose between GPU and radiator.


Mind you though I’ve only needed 1 d5. One of my previous builds that included cpu block, GPU block, active back plate, vrm block, vrm bridge and 3x 360 radiators plenty of bends and it ran perfectly fine with a max flow rate of 178L/h. Picture was taken on idle so flow rate was low.

once I went to my 12900k and a z690 formula and removed the vrm bridge my max flow rate was 240L/h

AFAIK 140-160L/H is the sweet spot.


----------



## morph.

Betroz said:


> Yeah when I see you guys are running 8000+ speeds and only ~30C load on the memory, I know it's watercooled
> For us mortal beings on air, those speeds are unrealistic. What is the limit on air cooling - 7200?


With m-die I’ve managed to max out on air at 7200.
A-die should be higher.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

morph. said:


> With m-die I’ve managed to max out on air at 7200.
> A-die should be higher.


what was your SA + mem voltage + VDDQ mem voltage


----------



## morph.

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> what was your SA + mem voltage + VDDQ mem voltage


1.57vdd 1.5 vddq IMC 1.38 SA 1.25


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> 1.57vdd 1.5 vddq IMC 1.38 SA 1.25


30c ambient and no direct fan, and temps are going up 😅


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> 30c ambient and no direct fan, and temps are going up 😅


I generally keep my ambient under 25 degs with a wannabe 40mm Noctua fan. However, after lurking and researching past few days I MIGHT just get a dual dimm water kit from bitspower and get either a 7800 or 8000 kit from gskill when available. I'll need to suck it up as I really need straight neat tubes or the mess will just be unacceptable.


----------



## Carillo

DanGleeballs said:


> I understand the idea. What's the most efficient way of doing this?
> Just set a voltage and see how far you can boot one stick at a time?


Find out witch stick can boot and run aida with the lowest vdd with a certain speed and timings. Patience is the key, not efficiency. Test both sticks in the same slot.


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

morph. said:


> 1.57vdd 1.5 vddq IMC 1.38 SA 1.25


That fan you posted above will do nothing. You have to compromise looks over function if you want proper air ram cooling. Plus RGB leds heating a bit more. Its pretty high vdimm. Out of my safe zone. Im at 1.48-46-1.12 at 7000


----------



## energie80

New daily
Still working on tightening, any advice is welcome, thanks


----------



## morph.

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> That fan you posted above will do nothing. You have to compromise looks over function if you want proper air ram cooling. Plus RGB leds heating a bit more. Its pretty high vdimm. Out of my safe zone. Im at 1.48-46-1.12 at 7000


Agree to disagree, It has dropped my spd temps by at least 5 deg on load from the 40mm 10mm fan I had so that is something. My idle and ambient delta is also better. Karhu stays under 52 degs with test over 10k% coverage. And as I mentioned above I will probably go down the watering my dimms route to see how far I can push the apex.

Previously for a year, I've been running my m-die without a fan since I had my z690 formula /12900k daily at 6600-6800 at 1.5 vdd/vddq 0 issues and have since now pushed it more without issues. Don't really care rams lifetime warranty anyway man people here push past 1.6 admittedly probably stronger cooling with a direct 120 fan or water cool.


----------



## Betroz

Is B-die DDR5 coming?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Is B-die DDR5 coming?


Some say next gen samsung is coming q1 next year. Samsung 1. Gen ddr5 is 10c hotter than hynix m-die, and it sux for aircooling


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

morph. said:


> Agree to disagree, It has dropped my spd temps by at least 5 deg on load from the 40mm 10mm fan I had so that is something. My idle and ambient delta is also better. Karhu stays under 52 degs with test over 10k% coverage. And as I mentioned above I will probably go down the watering my dimms route to see how far I can push the apex.
> 
> Previously for a year, I've been running my m-die without a fan since I had my z690 formula /12900k daily at 6600-6800 at 1.5 vdd/vddq 0 issues and have since now pushed it more without issues. Don't really care rams lifetime warranty anyway man people here push past 1.6 admittedly probably stronger cooling with a direct 120 fan or water cool.


A 120mm proper airflow fan ( mine had Silent Wings 3 ghetto attached to rams ) at 1500 RPM is keeping my Z5 non rgb model at 41c max at 1usmus_v3. I am sure there will be massive difference in stability for 52 vs 41c. Sure its your decision and setup but If i were you i would put a 120mm good airflow fan on top of GPU backplate and report temps. Maybe you can bring down your voltages and tighten the ram more ?

edit: maybe this give you idea. ( definitely not for looks )


----------



## acoustic

Does anyone have a listing of DDR/JEDEC timings and the rules behind them?

I know we have complications of the rules for DDR4, and I'm aware many of those rules haven't changed (like tCWL +/-1 causes tWTR/tWTR_L +/-1, for example), but curious if anyone has a compiled spreadsheet specifically for DDR5?


----------



## sulalin

Z690 APEX + 81N ADIE DDR5-8858MHZ
[劇透="8858MHZ"]








































[/劇透]


----------



## rs199208

was Luumi's record GB 3 run helped by the cpu being under ln2, not just the ram ln2? 
I've been wondering how much cooling helps the IMC?
yes, i know the IMC is usually the last thing to worry about if good MB and kit etc..


----------



## morph.

StreaMRoLLeR said:


> A 120mm proper airflow fan ( mine had Silent Wings 3 ghetto attached to rams ) at 1500 RPM is keeping my Z5 non rgb model at 41c max at 1usmus_v3. I am sure there will be massive difference in stability for 52 vs 41c. Sure its your decision and setup but If i were you i would put a 120mm good airflow fan on top of GPU backplate and report temps. Maybe you can bring down your voltages and tighten the ram more ?
> 
> edit: maybe this give you idea. ( definitely not for looks )
> View attachment 2586633


Unfortunately that is not something I’ll entertain aesthetically will look way too jank for my taste.

Plus stability test workloads are completely unrealistic to my daily work loads even though I do it to ensure there are no gremlins.


----------



## motivman

What in the world??? Apex Z790 is a BEAST. This is M-die on air cooling!!!!! Team Group 6400 CL40 Kit @ 7600 CL36. I think I am returning my Gskill 7600 CL36 A die Kit. My M-die matches its speed and has better latency!!!!


----------



## acoustic

Uhh.. 3 cycles of 1usmus? Lol.

Have you ran it through actual stability testing yet?


----------



## morph.

motivman said:


> What in the world??? Apex Z790 is a BEAST. This is M-die on air cooling!!!!! Team Group 6400 CL40 Kit @ 7600 CL36. I think I am returning my Gskill 7600 CL36 A die Kit. My M-die matches its speed and has better latency!!!!
> 
> View attachment 2586722


nice result but unfortunately means nothing from a stability perspective, unless you can get through at least 54 cycles not 3. Fingers crossed it can pass and looking forward to your results.

what cooling are you using on the dimms?


----------



## dante`afk

SoldierRBT said:


> 13900KF 55/43/45 1.16v LLC7
> 8400 34-47-47 1.65v
> View attachment 2586557


What sticks are you running?


----------



## SoldierRBT

dante`afk said:


> What sticks are you running?


Oloy 6800 CL38 1.45v Kit. 1.64v also works for 8400C34


----------



## bhav

This explains the issue with the problems people are having with 4 sticks:










DDR4 boards only just reached 2dpc DR 4000 with these last two generations of DDR4 boards.

Due to some people asking mobo manufacturers for better 2 dimm overclocking (like me sorry), it seems like t topology has been ditched by them all now.

For whatever reasons, mobo manufacturers wont offer both styles for signal traces across a single gen, like when Gigabyte used T topology, EVERY one of their boards had it.

Some people on reddit trying to use 128 Gb DDR5 .... they end up stuck with DDR4 G1 speeds but with DDR5 timings and G2 (4000CL40 G2 yuck).


----------



## rent0n

motivman said:


> What in the world??? Apex Z790 is a BEAST. This is M-die on air cooling!!!!! Team Group 6400 CL40 Kit @ 7600 CL36. I think I am returning my Gskill 7600 CL36 A die Kit. My M-die matches its speed and has better latency!!!!
> 
> View attachment 2586722


Even if you manage to get them stable at 7600, there is no real point for daily imo, because VDD/Q are 150-200mV higher compared to A-Die. Only really interesting for benching where M-Die is strong - low tRRDS/L, tRFC, tRCD, tRP, which is not the case here.


----------



## 673714

I think I got a bad set of G.Skill 7600MHz. Windows will boot with 1 or both sticks at 7600MHz using XMP, and the best I got was 73% through Y-cruncher with only 1 stick. I had to lower them all the way down to 6800MHz to get all the way through. The entire time I was getting bluescreens, pretty much randomly, but more often the higher the frequency I tried


----------



## Nisa

motivman said:


> What in the world??? Apex Z790 is a BEAST. This is M-die on air cooling!!!!!


What bios?


----------



## morph.

LilOliVert said:


> I think I got a bad set of G.Skill 7600MHz. Windows will boot with 1 or both sticks at 7600MHz using XMP, and the best I got was 73% through Y-cruncher with only 1 stick. I had to lower them all the way down to 6800MHz to get all the way through. The entire time I was getting bluescreens, pretty much randomly, but more often the higher the frequency I tried


Did you try to feed it more voltage?


----------



## newls1

morph. said:


> Did you try to feed it more voltage?


that will make it worse. 1.4-1.415vdd/q is all this ram wants.. more voltage makes it very unstable. Atleast my sticks are this way.


----------



## newls1

LilOliVert said:


> I think I got a bad set of G.Skill 7600MHz. Windows will boot with 1 or both sticks at 7600MHz using XMP, and the best I got was 73% through Y-cruncher with only 1 stick. I had to lower them all the way down to 6800MHz to get all the way through. The entire time I was getting bluescreens, pretty much randomly, but more often the higher the frequency I tried


make sure the ram is fully seated in slot. Make sure you are on the latest bios A8 (If you need it i can send it to you) or use the beta A8u4 or whatever its called) these bios are specificly for A-Die mem and worked well for some of us. If you arent on either of those bioses, You are working against yourself. After bios flash, just load XMP and see what stability is like. I doubt you have bad sticks, but rather bios/settings issues.

here is the beta bios OneDrive


----------



## Nizzen

motivman said:


> What in the world??? Apex Z790 is a BEAST. This is M-die on air cooling!!!!! Team Group 6400 CL40 Kit @ 7600 CL36. I think I am returning my Gskill 7600 CL36 A die Kit. My M-die matches its speed and has better latency!!!!
> 
> View attachment 2586722


Looks like you are running a-die settings. Are you shure it's m-die?


----------



## 673714

morph. said:


> Did you try to feed it more voltage?


Yeah I tried more, and less. It seemed to prefer less over more lol


newls1 said:


> make sure the ram is fully seated in slot. Make sure you are on the latest bios A8 (If you need it i can send it to you) or use the beta A8u4 or whatever its called) these bios are specificly for A-Die mem and worked well for some of us. If you arent on either of those bioses, You are working against yourself. After bios flash, just load XMP and see what stability is like. I doubt you have bad sticks, but rather bios/settings issues.
> 
> here is the beta bios OneDrive


I have an Asus Z690 Extreme and I just flashed to the latest bios before I took my M-die out lol


----------



## pipes

Has anyone tried this ram cooler? https://www.amazon.it/Hagsnec-Disss...7WfT&content-id=amzn1.sym.034079e9-a9b3-4dde-


----------



## tibcsi0407

newls1 said:


> that will make it worse. 1.4-1.415vdd/q is all this ram wants.. more voltage makes it very unstable. Atleast my sticks are this way.


My 6400 Gskills are eating 1.45V
Interesting voltage differences on the attached pic. Aida needs more TX and SA to be stable.


----------



## rulik006

What a hell with Z690 Unify X bios?
Latest was A81, then it was deleted and replaced with A80, now A80 gone with swap to A70
Houston, bios is downgrading


----------



## morph.

tibcsi0407 said:


> My 6400 Gskills are eating 1.45V
> Interesting voltage differences on the attached pic. Aida needs more TX and SA to be stable.
> View attachment 2586781
> View attachment 2586780
> View attachment 2586781
> 
> View attachment 2586780


sick results for m-die but how stable is it? 9min 3cycle tm5 pass definition or stable? Or is it the a-die variant I wonder.


----------



## acoustic

rulik006 said:


> What a hell with Z690 Unify X bios?
> Latest was A81, then it was deleted and replaced with A80, now A80 gone with swap to A70
> Houston. bios is downgrading
> View attachment 2586784


A81 was a BETA release. A8 was the official. No one knows why it was pulled off the site, but it's been gone for a few days now. There were a few of us having issues with it (random restarts, worse memory compatibility, etc).. assuming it was pulled for that reason, but no one knows for sure.

Still wishing MSI had a Shamino type person who worked with the community..


----------



## tibcsi0407

morph. said:


> sick results for m-die but how stable is it? 9min 3cycle tm5 pass definition or stable? Or is it the a-die variant I wonder.


It's an A die. I just do the Tm5 as a pre-test, then I test it with Aida with the 4 checkmarks as you can see in the picture. It's a full stress test to check my whole system.


----------



## opt33

newls1 said:


> that will make it worse. 1.4-1.415vdd/q is all this ram wants.. more voltage makes it very unstable. Atleast my sticks are this way.


Is that your gskill with bitspower on water being unstable at higher voltage, or talking about before while on stock heatsink? I needed better temps (bitspower/13 w/mk pads), higher SA 1.25 and tx 1.46-1.48 (cpu vddq on unifyx) to eliminate higher dram vdd/vddq causing instability on my a-die (with 4 dimm z790 hero), now can run 1.6 dram v. without issue.


----------



## neteng101

Is this Gskill a good set of DDR5 6400? - F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK

Not sure if its worthwhile to upgrade to DDR5 just yet and what speed to aim for with a 13700k. Would have to get a new board too. Aim for memory OC around 7000-7200? I don't have great DDR4 either so running 3866-19 its nothing much to shout about but works ok enough.


----------



## acoustic

I should have bought the Z690 KINGPIN for $449. The Unify-X is on my last nerve. Voltages have to be sky-high to run 7000+ M-Die and I'm fairly certain my IMC is just not happy with it. 1.365v CPU VDDQ TX (BIOS set, board seems to overvolt to 1.380v) just for 7000 is ridiculous, even if my 13900K has the worst IMC of all time.

BTW, I know everyone is running tCWL 28 typically, but has anyone tested going tCL - 2? Not sure if people are actually doing full testing on this, but I found tCWL 28 was causing major performance regression (40+ mb/s regression in Karhu coverage speed). tCWL = tCL - 2 (so for me, 32, with tCL @ 34) actually boosted performance quite a bit.

Just throwing it out there for anyone who may have thrown tCWL to 28 to start with without testing performance all the way down.


----------



## motivman

Nizzen said:


> Looks like you are running a-die settings. Are you shure it's m-die?


It sure is M-die. my previous post was just a quick and dirty overclock, never claimed it was stable... This is stable though.. Z790 Apex is insane. trefi MAXED OUT BABY


----------



## motivman

acoustic said:


> I should have bought the Z690 KINGPIN for $449. The Unify-X is on my last nerve. Voltages have to be sky-high to run 7000+ M-Die and I'm fairly certain my IMC is just not happy with it. 1.365v CPU VDDQ TX (BIOS set, board seems to overvolt to 1.380v) just for 7000 is ridiculous, even if my 13900K has the worst IMC of all time.
> 
> BTW, I know everyone is running tCWL 28 typically, but has anyone tested going tCL - 2? Not sure if people are actually doing full testing on this, but I found tCWL 28 was causing major performance regression (40+ mb/s regression in Karhu coverage speed). tCWL = tCL - 2 (so for me, 32, with tCL @ 34) actually boosted performance quite a bit.
> 
> Just throwing it out there for anyone who may have thrown tCWL to 28 to start with without testing performance all the way down.


No. I had both the unify-x and Kingpin board (bought from amazon) at my house at the same time. Anything I could do on the Dark, I could recreate on the unify-x. Dark just had the ability to boot frequencies that the unify-x couldn't, but couldn't get those frequencies stable on the Dark AT ALL. So I achieved THE SAME overclock on both boards at the end of the day. If I were you, I would get the Z790 Apex from Central computers. I paid only $725 OTD. On both the Dark and Unify-x, best I could get stable on my M-die kit was 7000 CL32, but on the Apex, I can do 7400 CL34 stable!!!!


----------



## opt33

acoustic said:


> I should have bought the Z690 KINGPIN for $449. The Unify-X is on my last nerve. Voltages have to be sky-high to run 7000+ M-Die and I'm fairly certain my IMC is just not happy with it. 1.365v CPU VDDQ TX (BIOS set, board seems to overvolt to 1.380v) just for 7000 is ridiculous, even if my 13900K has the worst IMC of all time.
> 
> BTW, I know everyone is running tCWL 28 typically, but has anyone tested going tCL - 2? Not sure if people are actually doing full testing on this, but I found tCWL 28 was causing major performance regression (40+ mb/s regression in Karhu coverage speed). tCWL = tCL - 2 (so for me, 32, with tCL @ 34) actually boosted performance quite a bit.
> 
> Just throwing it out there for anyone who may have thrown tCWL to 28 to start with without testing performance all the way down.


My unifyx would not even boot 7000 on 5 different hynix m die kits, let alone stable. For adie max stable was 7200, 7400 max boot but not game stable or reboot/retrain stable.

If I had one of the unifyx that did 7600+ stable on a-die would have kept it until next release. My unifyx was great when mdie maxed at 6800, but once higher frequencies came.....


----------



## motivman

opt33 said:


> My unifyx would not even boot 7000 on 5 different hynix m die kits, let alone stable. For adie max stable was 7200, 7400 max boot but not game stable or reboot/retrain stable.
> 
> If I had one of the unifyx that did 7600+ stable on a-die would have kept it until next release. My unifyx was great when mdie maxed at 6800, but once higher frequencies came.....


my Unify-X did A-die 7600 stable with no issues, but wouldn't even boot 7800 no matter what I tried. I am about to put it up for sale, let me know if you want it, LOL.


----------



## pipes

waiting for the platform I'm looking for info on passive ram heatsinks, one that is not too expensive but has good performance


----------



## opt33

motivman said:


> my Unify-X did A-die 7600 stable with no issues, but wouldn't even boot 7800 no matter what I tried. I am about to put it up for sale, let me know if you want it, LOL.


LOL...yeah, I went with z790 hero, only because z790 Apex wasnt available yet.. works great up to 7800 (would need better imc for 8000 on this 4 dimm board). In future sticking with 2 dimm boards, just wish 2 dimms would get released at same time as 4 dimm boards, even if bioses not tuned yet.


----------



## Nizzen

motivman said:


> It sure is M-die. my previous post was just a quick and dirty overclock, never claimed it was stable... This is stable though.. Z790 Apex is insane. trefi MAXED OUT BABY
> View attachment 2586810


This is better


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> waiting for the platform I'm looking for info on passive ram heatsinks, one that is not too expensive but has good performance


This is what you want, if you want just better heatsinks for aircooling:








Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com


----------



## acoustic

opt33 said:


> My unifyx would not even boot 7000 on 5 different hynix m die kits, let alone stable. For adie max stable was 7200, 7400 max boot but not game stable or reboot/retrain stable.
> 
> If I had one of the unifyx that did 7600+ stable on a-die would have kept it until next release. My unifyx was great when mdie maxed at 6800, but once higher frequencies came.....


Yep. I returned an A-Die kit because I couldn't post above 7600, and couldn't get 7400 stable.

The 13900K allowed me to get above my 6600Mhz wall, but now I'm stuck fighting for 7000. I've actually got it mostly stable right now but the Unify-X voltage requirements are just vastly higher than other boards..

I bet if I plugged this same chip and RAM into a Z690 KINGPIN or Z790 APEX, I'd be running much lower voltages than I am right now..



motivman said:


> No. I had both the unify-x and Kingpin board (bought from amazon) at my house at the same time. Anything I could do on the Dark, I could recreate on the unify-x. Dark just had the ability to boot frequencies that the unify-x couldn't, but couldn't get those frequencies stable on the Dark AT ALL. So I achieved THE SAME overclock on both boards at the end of the day. If I were you, I would get the Z790 Apex from Central computers. I paid only $725 OTD. On both the Dark and Unify-x, best I could get stable on my M-die kit was 7000 CL32, but on the Apex, I can do 7400 CL34 stable!!!!


Seems very opposite of what I've heard and seen from the KINGPIN.

The issue with buying another board for maybe 400Mhz more max, is that the platform is EOL. Spending $700+ for another board for what, maybe 2-3% performance? Doesn't help that I'm on 4K with a 3080TI LOL. I love OCing and that's honestly the main driver for wanting to send it with a new board, but realistically the return per dollar spent is not great.

The only counter to that, is I plan on skipping Meteor Lake and the gen after that. Plan on riding this 13900K for quite a while..


----------



## energie80

motivman said:


> my Unify-X did A-die 7600 stable with no issues, but wouldn't even boot 7800 no matter what I tried. I am about to put it up for sale, let me know if you want it, LOL.


Perfectly the same, not matter the settings of the voltage, can’t make 7800 stable.
There is a wall or bios limit


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> A81 was a BETA release. A8 was the official. No one knows why it was pulled off the site, but it's been gone for a few days now. There were a few of us having issues with it (random restarts, worse memory compatibility, etc).. assuming it was pulled for that reason, but no one knows for sure.
> 
> Still wishing MSI had a Shamino type person who worked with the community..


that would be amazing... couldnt agree more.


----------



## acoustic

energie80 said:


> Perfectly the same, not matter the settings of the voltage, can’t make 7800 stable.
> There is a wall or bios limit


Yep.

The reality is, it's a $449-489 board. Phenomenal alternative to the ****show that was the Z690 APEX, and great price point.. but with Z790 4DIMM boards surpassing it, it's not such a great deal anymore.

I'd take my chances on a Z690 KINGPIN for $529 over this board if I was looking to buy right now, or just go Z790 4DIMM.


----------



## energie80

Just hoping for a bios miracle but I’m ok with 7600. Not going to open my loop for an upgrade, at least not a this point


----------



## rs199208

newls1 said:


> that would be amazing... couldnt agree more.


so which bios is best on unify x now? I'm still waiting on the last parts to complete new dual loop, so haven't OC a81 yet.


----------



## energie80

Just wait since tu yea removed a8


----------



## motivman

rs199208 said:


> so which bios is best on unify x now? I'm still waiting on the last parts to complete new dual loop, so haven't OC a81 yet.


There is actually an A84 bios, was running it before I got my apex. Can post it here if anyone Is interested… can’t say it made a difference for me though, my board hit a wall at 7600.


----------



## rs199208

energie80 said:


> Just wait since tu yea removed a8





motivman said:


> There is actually an A84 bios, was running it before I got my apex. Can post it here if anyone Is interested… can’t say it made a difference for me though, my board hit a wall at 7600.


ok ill wait see what happens. 
on 81 i couldn't get 7600 stable. 
waiting for microcenter to get the new apex if i don't get the new dark.


----------



## acoustic

motivman said:


> There is actually an A84 bios, was running it before I got my apex. Can post it here if anyone Is interested… can’t say it made a difference for me though, my board hit a wall at 7600.


What's the build date on it? Can you share please?

Also, how did you acquire it?

My biggest frustration with MSI is that BETA BIOS seem to be completely random to acquire. Who is releasing them? Why is it that random people (no offense) seem to pop up with these updated BETA's and the two different google drive/one drive sources I have don't seem to get them..

It's just really weird. There's no organization. It would be so much easier for MSI if they had a community rep as bigger user-base testing these BIOS could identify issues quicker. At one point, I had built a training profile for DDR5 on one of the older beta BIOS that was training higher frequencies than what the MSI profiles were doing.. could have easily shared it with MSI to potentially help, but there's no one to talk to.


----------



## acoustic

In other news, managed to get 7000 stable on BIOS A8 (the one that was pulled). We'll see if it holds up.. my board likes to be fine with settings for a day or two, and then decide it's no longer OK, lol. Temps got up there since heat has been running (pc is below a vent) and my basement is quite warm right now. No active cooling on the RAM besides my top rad blowing intake on it.

Stability was very intermittent until I did tCWL = tCL - 2, and raised tWTR/tWTR_L a bit. Next steps are dropping tFAW down to 16, now that I dropped tRRD down. I was running a higher tRRD for testing and since tFAW = lowest tRRD * 4, tFAW 32 was the lowest that made sense. Until I put the waterblock on my RAM, tREFI and tRFC will stay where they are.

Eventually I'll try dropping tWTR down in increments, but for now I want to play some games.

13900K
Unify-X
Kingston 6400CL32 M-Die w/ IceManCooler heatsinks, no waterblock (yet)


----------



## 673714

newls1 said:


> make sure the ram is fully seated in slot. Make sure you are on the latest bios A8 (If you need it i can send it to you) or use the beta A8u4 or whatever its called) these bios are specificly for A-Die mem and worked well for some of us. If you arent on either of those bioses, You are working against yourself. After bios flash, just load XMP and see what stability is like. I doubt you have bad sticks, but rather bios/settings issues.
> 
> here is the beta bios OneDrive


So, is there anyone here who owns both Asus Z690 Extreme and G.Skill 7600MHz Z5 RGB? This is my first A-die kit, so I'd love to know what tweaks are necessary to get stable

Unless you can say this is actually pointless for me, I'm really just curious if 7600MHz A-die has much better latency than 6400MHz M-die @6600Mhz. I will add that I would like to eventually get better heat spreaders, thermal pads, and overclock DDR5 a little more on air, but most likely not water.

With that in mind what will have the best response time,
keeping M-die and aiming for 6800-7000+
or upgrading to A-die for higher frequencies (that's not as tight)


----------



## energie80

LilOliVert said:


> So, is there anyone here who owns both Asus Z690 Extreme and G.Skill 7600MHz Z5 RGB? This is my first A-die kit, so I'd love to know what tweaks are necessary to get stable
> 
> Unless you can say this is actually pointless for me, I'm really just curious if 7600MHz A-die has much better latency than 6400MHz M-die @6600Mhz. I will add that I would like to eventually get better heat spreaders, thermal pads, and overclock DDR5 a little more on air, but most likely not water.
> 
> With that in mind what will have the best response time,
> keeping M-die and aiming for 6800-7000+
> or upgrading to A-die for higher frequencies (that's not as tight)


No better latency but better bandwidth


----------



## pipes

Nizzen said:


> This is what you want, if you want just better heatsinks for aircooling:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore
> 
> 
> Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bartxstore.com


That is good but is expensive, 90€ shipped.
My question is: How much does it lower the temperatures on average?
I haven't found anything about testing

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nizzen

pipes said:


> That is good but is expensive, 90€ shipped.
> My question is: How much does it lower the temperatures on average?
> I haven't found anything about testing
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


-10-15c easy


----------



## NBPDC505

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Damn, lucky you! Armory crate has no effect on mine at all. Even on a 100% fresh install of windows. Wish asus would actually try and fix this for me. Ive been getting passed around from rep to rep for the past 6 weeks. I've probably sent them 15 different videos of me replicating the issue. Haven't heard anything from them in 7 days now. Almost like they dont beleive me, they havent even offered an RMA


May have something for you. If you use Signal RGB and join their Discord, you can then separately join the SignalRGB Plugin server which has a beta channel. The most recent beta now allows me to modify the Strix 4090 RGB with no problem. If you haven't already joined their Discord server, the link is here: Discord Plugin/Beta is here: Join the SignalRGB Plugin Test Server Discord Server!


----------



## Gen.

P.S. For sure, SA and DRAM VDDQ will be lower, but I'm too lazy ... I don't know about CPU VDD2, 1.3 is already normal. Short tests 1.25 passes, left as is. tRDRD_sg=13 also seems to be ok, but 14 is quieter, tWRWR_sg=16 for tests (checked for stability at the same time), tRDWR below 20 errors, although sometimes 17 works fine, tWTR_L=20 errors, RTL is optimized...
P.S.S. It would be necessary to put Windows on 980 Pro, and not on HP + optimize


----------



## Gen.

4800 OEM. They are unlikely to be able to start working with 7400-7466, 7600 ... (and I don’t even count on 7800).


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> In other news, managed to get 7000 stable on BIOS A8 (the one that was pulled). We'll see if it holds up.. my board likes to be fine with settings for a day or two, and then decide it's no longer OK, lol. Temps got up there since heat has been running (pc is below a vent) and my basement is quite warm right now. No active cooling on the RAM besides my top rad blowing intake on it.
> 
> Stability was very intermittent until I did tCWL = tCL - 2, and raised tWTR/tWTR_L a bit. Next steps are dropping tFAW down to 16, now that I dropped tRRD down. I was running a higher tRRD for testing and since tFAW = lowest tRRD * 4, tFAW 32 was the lowest that made sense. Until I put the waterblock on my RAM, tREFI and tRFC will stay where they are.
> 
> Eventually I'll try dropping tWTR down in increments, but for now I want to play some games.
> 
> 13900K
> Unify-X
> Kingston 6400CL32 M-Die w/ IceManCooler heatsinks, no waterblock (yet)
> 
> View attachment 2586841


My Gskill 6400 kit (M-Die) was @ 7044MT/s on this board CL32/42/42/32 @ 1.525v. How are you getting away with what appears to be sub 1.5v vdimm and even lower vddq voltage? You must have some really good m-die. If youd like, would you like to see my m-die mem settings I used to be fully stable @ 7040? You are obviously WAY WAY smarter then myself when it comes to this memory timing stuff, but it never hurts to share


----------



## bhav

Gen. said:


> 4800 OEM. They are unlikely to be able to start working with 7400-7466, 7600 ... (and I don’t even count on 7800).


Thats not good enough, I demand more from a 4800 kit, it should do at least over 9000! 🤪


----------



## morph.

motivman said:


> It sure is M-die. my previous post was just a quick and dirty overclock, never claimed it was stable... This is stable though.. Z790 Apex is insane. trefi MAXED OUT BABY
> View attachment 2586810


What memory cooling do you have based on your temps it's on water yeah? The results are pretty good but only 3 cycles 1hr is truly not enough to claim stability IMHO its closer to a quick and dirty stab test.


----------



## Gen.

I'll start with 7400, then 7466.

I will say that Freezemod + Noiseblocker 12 1500 rpm radiators. Soon I will collect custom water. Icemcooler ram waterblock+heatkiller iv pro black nickel + d5 next + pe 360 + barrow 360 60


----------



## dinvlad

Looking to get MSI Z790i Edge for 13900K with this 2x32GB kit:








F5-6400J3239G32GX2-TZ5RS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V 64GB (2x32GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series...




www.gskill.com





MSI QVL says it's Hynix A-die. Given that and overclockability of this board, do you think I could expect to hit 7,600-8,000 MT/s with it?
Or do you recommend to try some other kit (I do want 64GB though)? I'm a bit concerned about the loose timings here.

(I also run a custom loop and expect to put it under water)

Sorry if my question is naive, I'm new here


----------



## opt33

dinvlad said:


> Looking to get MSI Z790i Edge for 13900K with this 2x32GB kit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F5-6400J3239G32GX2-TZ5RS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V 64GB (2x32GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI QVL says it's Hynix A-die. Given that and overclockability of this board, do you think I could expect to hit 7,600-8,000 MT/s with it?
> Or do you recommend to try some other kit (I do want 64GB though)? I'm a bit concerned about the loose timings here.
> 
> (I also run a custom loop and expect to put it under water)
> 
> Sorry if my question is naive, I'm new here


msi z790 edge/carbon supports up to 7200+ for single rank (2x16 gb kits) and only 6600+ for dual rank (2x32 gb kits). Using 64gb and aiming for 7600-8000 isnt going to go well, some mobo have issues running 7600-8000 single rank, let alone dual rank. 

support per msi manual:
1DPC 1R Max speed up to 7200+ MHz 
1DPC 2R Max speed up to 6600+ MHz 
2DPC 1R Max speed up to 6400+ MHz 
2DPC 2R Max speed up to 5600+ MHz


----------



## dinvlad

opt33 said:


> msi z790 edge/carbon supports up to 7200+ for single rank (2x16 gb kits) and only 6600+ for dual rank (2x32 gb kits). Using 64gb and aiming for 7600-8000 isnt going to go well, some mobo have


Sorry, I meant z790*i* (the ITX, 2-DIMM board is the main reason why I'm going with it..)


----------



## 673714

energie80 said:


> No better latency but better bandwidth


Ok, humor me, what about 7000MHz M-die vs 8000MHz A-die. Or whatever is a decent daily for each on air. Both tightened up, is M-die still going to be lower ns? 

If so, I don't even want A-die


----------



## motivman

morph. said:


> What memory cooling do you have based on your temps it's on water yeah? The results are pretty good but only 3 cycles 1hr is truly not enough to claim stability IMHO its closer to a quick and dirty stab test.


its on water. I have watched hours of youtube videos, played Spiderman and callisto protocol for hours on end, and my system has not crashed. It is stable, lol. usually if my memory was unstable, Spiderman with raytracing crashes after a few minutes of gameplay, chrome crashes while watching 4k youtube videos. none of these has happened, so it is stable enough for me bruv.


----------



## motivman

acoustic said:


> What's the build date on it? Can you share please?
> 
> Also, how did you acquire it?
> 
> My biggest frustration with MSI is that BETA BIOS seem to be completely random to acquire. Who is releasing them? Why is it that random people (no offense) seem to pop up with these updated BETA's and the two different google drive/one drive sources I have don't seem to get them..
> 
> It's just really weird. There's no organization. It would be so much easier for MSI if they had a community rep as bigger user-base testing these BIOS could identify issues quicker. At one point, I had built a training profile for DDR5 on one of the older beta BIOS that was training higher frequencies than what the MSI profiles were doing.. could have easily shared it with MSI to potentially help, but there's no one to talk to.


Here you go sir. Enjoy!

** rename from .pdf to .zip **


----------



## acoustic

motivman said:


> Here you go sir. Enjoy!
> 
> ** rename from .pdf to .zip **


Thanks a ton. Just took a look at it, and it has an 11/07/2022 build-date, which is an identical build-date to A8 (the official release). I bet the A84 you just shared is the BIOS that was renamed A8 and made official by MSI, so they should be the same.


----------



## opt33

dinvlad said:


> Sorry, I meant z790*i* (the ITX, 2-DIMM board is the main reason why I'm going with it..)


yeah I missed the i, so 7200+ for 2x32 via manual, havent seen anyone with that board try 2x32, you may be the first, so post up the results if you get it. However, I imagine if 7600-8000 worked well for 2x32 they would list those speeds, like they did with 2x16 ie, up to 8000+.


----------



## warbucks

morph. said:


> Naked? Oem heat spreader?


OEM heatspreaders. It's on an open bench and I have three fans pointed towards the ram.


----------



## ViTosS

Can any of you guys running 8000-8200Mhz DDR5 run SOTTR benchmark 720p lowest (to avoid getting GPU bound) and post the results? Curious to see if it can beat the @PhoenixMDA DDR4, he got 395fps average FPS while 0% GPU bound.


----------



## motivman

acoustic said:


> Thanks a ton. Just took a look at it, and it has an 11/07/2022 build-date, which is an identical build-date to A8 (the official release). I bet the A84 you just shared is the BIOS that was renamed A8 and made official by MSI, so they should be the same.


well my overclock profiles for A8 did not work (or load) with A84, so not sure....


----------



## acoustic

motivman said:


> well my overclock profiles for A8 did not work (or load) with A84, so not sure....


Interesting.


----------



## Agent-A01

motivman said:


> its on water. I have watched hours of youtube videos, played Spiderman and callisto protocol for hours on end, and my system has not crashed. It is stable, lol. usually if my memory was unstable, Spiderman with raytracing crashes after a few minutes of gameplay, chrome crashes while watching 4k youtube videos. none of these has happened, so it is stable enough for me bruv.
> View attachment 2586881
> 
> View attachment 2586880


Lmao what is that like $300-400 in extended bitspower fittings alone?


----------



## Dodgexander

motivman said:


> its on water. I have watched hours of youtube videos, played Spiderman and callisto protocol for hours on end, and my system has not crashed. It is stable, lol. usually if my memory was unstable, Spiderman with raytracing crashes after a few minutes of gameplay, chrome crashes while watching 4k youtube videos. none of these has happened, so it is stable enough for me bruv.
> View attachment 2586881
> 
> View attachment 2586880


Forgive me ignorance but how does your loop work on the memory? From the pic it looks like it isn't covering your second slot(s).


----------



## Gen.

4800 OEM.

*The extreme is over. We need to play around with timings now and try on 7466 *


----------



## OC2000

Dodgexander said:


> Forgive me ignorance but how does your loop work on the memory? From the pic it looks like it isn't covering your second slot(s).


That the dual M.2 slot. The Apex only has 1x 2 Dimm slot.


----------



## skullbringer

rando question regarding RTL's on DDR5: there is an individual RTL value for each subchannel now and by default one pair of numbers is usually about 5 lower than the other.

now do those common pairs belong to the same channel or memory controller?

asking because asrtc and memtweakit cant agree and dragon ball is still broken


----------



## motivman

Agent-A01 said:


> Lmao what is that like $300-400 in extended bitspower fittings alone?


Bitspower? Man these are Chinese knockoffs on Amazon… way cheaper, plus I wanted to do something different, lol


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

newls1 said:


> My Gskill 6400 kit (M-Die) was @ 7044MT/s on this board CL32/42/42/32 @ 1.525v. How are you getting away with what appears to be sub 1.5v vdimm and even lower vddq voltage? You must have some really good m-die. If youd like, would you like to see my m-die mem settings I used to be fully stable @ 7040? You are obviously WAY WAY smarter then myself when it comes to this memory timing stuff, but it never hurts to share


Maybe good IMC ?

I am 1.48 dram 1.46 dram vddq 1.12 SA 1.375 CPU VDDQ at 7000. Shared many times my settings, Its not that hard anymore. With RPL IMC and optimized BIOS from manufacturer


----------



## morph.

motivman said:


> Bitspower? Man these are Chinese knockoffs on Amazon… way cheaper, plus I wanted to do something different, lol


bro that's like a million points of potential failure with leaks...


----------



## motivman

morph. said:


> bro that's like a million points of potential failure with leaks...


Thank God for O rings, leak testing, and knowing what I am doing, lol. Been running my system like this for years, NEVER leaked.. (knock on wood) 

***Actually I don't really leak test... most of the time, I just SEND it, but for caution, paper towels under fittings for 5 to 10 minutes.. no leaks? GTG


----------



## motivman

running a modular watercooling system is AWESOME, lol. Swapped from my watercooled M-die to Air cooled A-die in less than 5 minutes...


----------



## Lownage

ViTosS said:


> Can any of you guys running 8000-8200Mhz DDR5 run SOTTR benchmark 720p lowest (to avoid getting GPU bound) and post the results? Curious to see if it can beat the @PhoenixMDA DDR4, he got 395fps average FPS while 0% GPU bound.


5.7 Allcore + 2TVB


----------



## motivman

Lownage said:


> 5.7 Allcore + 2TVB
> View attachment 2586950
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586949


Is this on water? can you share sa, imc and tx voltages?


----------



## KedarWolf

Lownage said:


> 5.7 Allcore + 2TVB
> View attachment 2586950
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586949


Nothing stopping anyone in SOTTR from using LOD BIAS cheats to get a higher score though.

On my 7950x with 6400MHz memory I got 352, but not being able to compete with Intel I never even took a screenshot.


----------



## KedarWolf

Lownage said:


> 5.7 Allcore + 2TVB
> View attachment 2586950
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586949





KedarWolf said:


> Nothing stopping anyone in SOTTR from using LOD BIAS cheats to get a higher score though.
> 
> On my 7950x with 6400MHz memory I got 352, but not being able to compete with Intel I never even took a screenshot.


Tweaked some SOTTR settings and got this. Somehow setting the DLSS helps even though I'm 100% CPU bound.


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> My Gskill 6400 kit (M-Die) was @ 7044MT/s on this board CL32/42/42/32 @ 1.525v. How are you getting away with what appears to be sub 1.5v vdimm and even lower vddq voltage? You must have some really good m-die. If youd like, would you like to see my m-die mem settings I used to be fully stable @ 7040? You are obviously WAY WAY smarter then myself when it comes to this memory timing stuff, but it never hurts to share


Sorry, didn’t see your reply!

I’m running 1.490 DRAM VDD + 1.360v DRAM VDDQ. What I realized is that Hynix M-Die actually likes low DRAM VDDQ, and if you run it low, it will allow you to run a lower CPU VDDQ TX. The very high DRAM VDDQ voltage, I imagine, actually makes signal integrity harder for the motherboard/CPU IMC. This was all thanks to @affxct for pointing this out to me. You have to keep dropping DRAM VDDQ past the point where it actually harms stability, and then it suddenly works fine.

I’m running slightly higher tCL (34 vs your 32) which could contribute to the lower VDD requirement. I don’t think my CPU IMC is anything special (1.365v VDDQ TX), but I can’t really tell. My Unify-X is one of the worse bins of the motherboard — it refuses to POST above 7400, and I could never get 7400 stable, when I had an A-Die kit to play around with. The board is the reason I returned the A-Die and stuck with M-Die.

I do think my M-Die kit is a pretty good bin. I was running 6600 32-39-39-28 with very tight sub/tertiary at only 1.410v DRAM VDD/1.40v DRAM VDDQ on my 12700K.


----------



## don1376

pipes said:


> That is good but is expensive, 90€ shipped.
> My question is: How much does it lower the temperatures on average?
> I haven't found anything about testing
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


These are working great for me. Add a piece of thermal pad over PMIC and stick them on. Got a good 10-15c drop over stock spreaders with fan blowing on them. $20 for 2 pair. LM YN Desktop Memory RAM Cooler Heat Sink Pure Copper - Pack of 2 https://a.co/d/hkFn0uS


----------



## Chintz

So, with Apex out for some time now, which frequency is consistently stable in the long run / reboot / gaming?


----------



## dante`afk

8000 seems mostly doable.

anything higher is only from guys with binned dimms, which you can count on one hand.


----------



## Carillo

8200 c34 is effortless with all A -die kits tested on AIR with fan on Apex z790. Works reboot after reboot


----------



## dante`afk

not here with my tg 7200 kit


----------



## Carillo

dante`afk said:


> not here with my tg 7200 kit


Like I mentioned before, TG uses super early 152A batch ICs on those kits. It takes 1.7VDD and water to do the same as 233A batch (g.skill) do with only 1.57VDD on air.


----------



## dante`afk

Ah I see.

I'm on water but still having stability issues with 1.74v or more. temps are not an issue

I should get my gskill 8000 kit this week, let's see what I can do with that.


----------



## motivman

is 1.5V IMC considered safe for 24/7?


----------



## SoldierRBT

My max stable atm is 8266C34 1.60v tight timings. 
8400C34 passes every ram test/game stable but fails YC N32 test and fast boot doesn’t seem to work.
Not sure if it’s IMC limit or BIOS.


----------



## acoustic

SoldierRBT said:


> My max stable atm is 8266C34 1.60v tight timings.
> 8400C34 passes every ram test/game stable but fails YC N32 test and fast boot doesn’t seem to work.
> Not sure if it’s IMC limit or BIOS.


Seen issues like that when CPU VDDQ TX is slightly too low. Try raising 0.005v or 0.010v


----------



## asdkj1740

motivman said:


> There is actually an A84 bios, was running it before I got my apex. Can post it here if anyone Is interested… can’t say it made a difference for me though, my board hit a wall at 7600.


is a84 the newer one or a90


----------



## Nizzen

motivman said:


> is 1.5V IMC considered safe for 24/7?


Don't ask this question in a overclocking forum 
I say it's safe, because I change cpu every season on the main pc 

We ran 1.55-1.6 VCCSA on z390/z490, and it's still alive...


----------



## newls1

asdkj1740 said:


> is a84 the newer one or a90


whrere is A90?


----------



## acoustic

asdkj1740 said:


> is a84 the newer one or a90


Haven't seen an A90.

A84 has the same build date (11/07/2022) as A8 official. Can't say for sure if they're identical, but both being built on the same day.. I think it's likely.


----------



## motivman

For all those that got 8000 stable, is this on air or water? I think my luck is running out on air with this Gskill 7600 kit. 7800 is looking good, but 8000 is no bueno right now. Not sure if I am keeping this kit, so hesitant to rip heatspreaders off and put it on water, but I have tried up to 1.5V, 1.55v and the system wont even boot. My air cooling is keeping temps as low as 50-52C. Too hot for 8000 stable? My case temp is 26C


----------



## newls1

motivman said:


> For all those that got 8000 stable, is this on air or water? I think my luck is running out on air with this Gskill 7600 kit. 7800 is looking good, but 8000 is no bueno right now. Not sure if I am keeping this kit, so hesitant to rip heatspreaders off and put it on water, but I have tried up to 1.5V, 1.55v and the system wont even boot. My air cooling is keeping temps as low as 50-52C. Too hot for 8000 stable?


are you getting those temps from the pmic sensor that hwinfo64 reads?


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> are you getting those temps from the pmic sensor that hwinfo64 reads?


yeah.


----------



## chik0240

Hi new to here, I was using Kingston fury beast 5600cl40 on gigabyte z690 ud ax ddr5 with bios F21 and xmp rock solid.

just got a g skill trident Z5 5600 cl30 64gb kit (2x32) with Hynix chips inside but it just don’t go stable under xmp. Any suggestions?


----------



## SoldierRBT

acoustic said:


> Seen issues like that when CPU VDDQ TX is slightly too low. Try raising 0.005v or 0.010v


I've tried everything it's not voltage related. I can pass every test like most people here sharing 8400C34 SS but YC N32 not possible and cold boot issues.


----------



## rs199208

bahaha! there is now only one ddr5 4 dimm bitspower block left on PPCS. we bought all the 2 dimm now emptying out their 4 dimm stock..


----------



## motivman

rs199208 said:


> bahaha! there is now only one ddr5 4 dimm bitspower block left on PPCS. we bought all the 2 dimm now emptying out their 4 dimm stock..


its pretty good block, and really the only widely commercial block available for single sided ddr5. I need to get replacement screws for my heatspreaders though. stripped them to hell, SMH


----------



## acoustic

SoldierRBT said:


> I've tried everything it's not voltage related. I can pass every test like most people here sharing 8400C34 SS but YC N32 not possible and cold boot issues.


Try single stick in each slot. Could be IMC, or DIMM slots not liking the speed. There’s something wrong if you’re having cold-boot issues.


----------



## SoldierRBT

acoustic said:


> Try single stick in each slot. Could be IMC, or DIMM slots not liking the speed. There’s something wrong if you’re having cold-boot issues.


Sticks are fine. Problem could be either BIOS or IMC. I think cstkl mentioned before that 8400 and above has cold boot issues.


----------



## newls1

motivman said:


> its pretty good block, and really the only widely commercial block available for single sided ddr5. I need to get replacement screws for my heatspreaders though. stripped them to hell, SMH


email bitspower, they will ship out screws to you free of charge


----------



## rs199208

motivman said:


> its pretty good block, and really the only widely commercial block available for single sided ddr5. I need to get replacement screws for my heatspreaders though. stripped them to hell, SMH


so it wasnt only me? yeah, they offered to ship me new screws. i haven't got around to filling that replacement order with them yet since i instead just picked up the 4 dimm kit.
did you use the hex key tool that came with the kit?


----------



## ViTosS

Lownage said:


> 5.7 Allcore + 2TVB
> View attachment 2586950
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586949


That's basically what I get with 4200CL15 RAM, but I ran everything lowest 720p, not High and with DLSS, also stock 13900k:


----------



## DanGleeballs

Carillo said:


> Find out witch stick can boot and run aida with the lowest vdd with a certain speed and timings. Patience is the key, not efficiency. Test both sticks in the same slot.


So I've done this hoping to find something that I could change to improve speed or use less voltage.
Turns out I already had the best stick in the first slot purely by luck. It needed 0.015 less VDD to pass a run of Memtest86 at 6800. So nothing to be gained other than knowledge.


----------



## CptSpig

SoldierRBT said:


> Sticks are fine. Problem could be either BIOS or IMC. I think cstkl mentioned before that 8400 and above has cold boot issues.
> View attachment 2587001


Some of your timings look awfully tight for 8400. Try setting WR(tRCD WR) to Auto. Set tWR to Auto, tWRPRE 48 and tWRPDEN 47. Set tWCL TO Auto. Also no boot issues with 8400 and above.


----------



## acoustic

DanGleeballs said:


> So I've done this hoping to find something that I could change to improve speed or use less voltage.
> Turns out I already had the best stick in the first slot purely by luck. It needed 0.015 less VDD to pass a run of Memtest86 at 6800. So nothing to be gained other than knowledge.


Well, you could unlink your DIMM voltage controls, and run that higher quality stick at less voltage (less heat), if you wanted.


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> email bitspower, they will ship out screws to you free of charge


oh wow really??? do you happen to know the correct email address? I tried looking it up, but this was the bst I could find...






Contact Us







shop.bitspower.com


----------



## newls1

motivman said:


> oh wow really??? do you happen to know the correct email address? I tried looking it up, but this was the bst I could find...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contact Us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.bitspower.com


ask @rs199208 ..... He was able to find it


----------



## motivman

rs199208 said:


> so it wasnt only me? yeah, they offered to ship me new screws. i haven't got around to filling that replacement order with them yet since i instead just picked up the 4 dimm kit.
> did you use the hex key tool that came with the kit?


yeah, those screws are soft as hell. Got to be extremely careful with them. Do you happen to have the email address for bitspower? I need replacement screws BAD, lol. I was tempted to even buy another kit.


----------



## SoldierRBT

CptSpig said:


> Some of your timings look awfully tight for 8400. Try setting WR(tRCD WR) to Auto. Set tWR to Auto, tWRPRE 48 and tWRPDEN 47. Set tWCL TO Auto. Also no boot issues with 8400 and above.


Like I said its not a voltage/timing problem. Even tighter timings are no issue. It’s cold boot training problem, only YC N32 detect this. TM5, memtest86, hci, karhu pass fine. 8266 is my max all stable


----------



## Gsen999

What is the max mem frequency i can expect on z790 hero? 7800?


----------



## acoustic

SoldierRBT said:


> Like I said its not a voltage/timing problem. Even tighter timings are no issue. It’s cold boot training problem, only YC N32 detect this. TM5, memtest86, hci, karhu pass fine. 8266 is my max all stable


After the system has trained, are you seeing repeated re-training despite no changes to settings? The system shouldn’t be re-training every boot.

Have you tried messing with the DRAM Training Profile settings? Disable Margin Check/DIMM SPD Check and maybe enable DIMM DFE Training. If cstkl1 said that there may be a cold-boot issue related to the BIOS, then I’d say he’s probably right. Maybe he figured something out to fix it through training profile - he is the master lol


----------



## petar.romanov

24/7 Mdie
*G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB DIMM Kit 32GB DDR5-6400MHz CL32-39-39-102 on-die ECC F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS*


----------



## rs199208

motivman said:


> yeah, those screws are soft as hell. Got to be extremely careful with them. Do you happen to have the email address for bitspower? I need replacement screws BAD, lol. I was tempted to even buy another kit.
> 
> [/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E]


messed up the reply.
[email protected]


----------



## CptSpig

SoldierRBT said:


> Like I said its not a voltage/timing problem. Even tighter timings are no issue. It’s cold boot training problem, only YC N32 detect this. TM5, memtest86, hci, karhu pass fine. 8266 is my max all stable


It sounds like all you tried is synthetic bench marks. You need to try something real world like load a game play and see if it crashes. Your IMC is probably to weak for the timings you are using for all programs. Try some of the things people are suggesting maybe it will help. I can load 8533mt and bench but I am not going game with that OC. Don't forget to enable fast boot once your OC is stable you don't want your system training on every boot.


----------



## opt33

motivman said:


> yeah, those screws are soft as hell. Got to be extremely careful with them. Do you happen to have the email address for bitspower? I need replacement screws BAD, lol. I was tempted to even buy another kit.


yeah, those small screws have shallow threads, stripped one of mine first use, couldnt get it to screw in correctly. Next time I take apart will use larger size screws/binding post (use entire hole including bevel but with flat head so sits flush with heatsink), instead of the small screws that fit inside bevel... wont look much different if screws/post sit flush, and much easier to work on with larger screws/threads.

dont know if these will fit shaft likely too big, but going to try something like them once I take apart and measure:








Amazon.com: uxcell Screw Post Female 4x6mm Belt Buckle Binding Bolts Leather Fastener 15 Sets : Office Products


Buy uxcell Screw Post Female 4x6mm Belt Buckle Binding Bolts Leather Fastener 15 Sets: Binders & Binding Systems - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## fireanimal

I am in the process of trying to get a set of A die stabilized on a Strix Z790-I @ 8000. Running into a bunch of stability issues so I thought I would swap out the heat spreaders with a set of EK monarch that I have left over from my last build. When I pulled the factory heat spreaders I noticed that each stick has different Die lots for the IC's. I thought that matched sets of Gskill were matched sets? Not sure if this is an issue, but I find it odd.


----------



## z390e

CptSpig said:


> It sounds like all you tried is synthetic bench marks. You need to try something real world like load a game play and see if it crashes. Your IMC is probably to weak for the timings you are using for all programs. Try some of the things people are suggesting maybe it will help. I can load 8533mt and bench but I am not going game with that OC. Don't forget to enable fast boot once your OC is stable you don't want your system training on every boot.


fwiw I haven't found a game yet that is a better CPU/RAM OC test than the combo of tm5, y-cruncher and the hwbot x265 benchmark

if my RAM and CPU can pass tm5, y-cruncher and hwbot x265 5x each I've never once had a non-GPU specific stability issue in gaming, even with huge temperature swings.


----------



## CptSpig

z390e said:


> fwiw I haven't found a game yet that is a better CPU/RAM OC test than the combo of tm5, y-cruncher and the hwbot x265 benchmark
> 
> if my RAM and CPU can pass tm5, y-cruncher and hwbot x265 5x each I've never once had a non-GPU specific stability issue in gaming, even with huge temperature swings.


Sounds like you are not overclocking hard enough.


----------



## z390e

haha probably true @CptSpig

what games did you see stability issues with that those benchmarks didnt surface?


----------



## SoldierRBT

CptSpig said:


> It sounds like all you tried is synthetic bench marks. You need to try something real world like load a game play and see if it crashes. Your IMC is probably to weak for the timings you are using for all programs. Try some of the things people are suggesting maybe it will help. I can load 8533mt and bench but I am not going game with that OC. Don't forget to enable fast boot once your OC is stable you don't want your system training on every boot.


no issues in games.


----------



## CptSpig

z390e said:


> haha probably true @CptSpig
> 
> what games did you see stability issues with that those benchmarks didnt surface?


Sniper Elite 5. I had a 8000mt with a per core 5.7 to 6.2 CPU overclock that passed TM5 and 5000% Karhu. It crashed in Sniper Elite 5. So I raised tRW from 8 to 12 Problem solved. Weak IMC.


----------



## CptSpig

SoldierRBT said:


> no issues in games.


There is no such thing as stability in every scenario. Like I said I would loosen some timings and test in YC N32. Try setting WR(tRCD WR) to Auto. Set tWR to Auto, tWRPRE 48 and tWRPDEN 47. Set tWCL to Auto. It can't hurt. You can always set it back.


----------



## WayWayUp

motivman said:


> For all those that got 8000 stable, is this on air or water? I think my luck is running out on air with this Gskill 7600 kit. 7800 is looking good, but 8000 is no bueno right now. Not sure if I am keeping this kit, so hesitant to rip heatspreaders off and put it on water, but I have tried up to 1.5V, 1.55v and the system wont even boot. My air cooling is keeping temps as low as 50-52C. Too hot for 8000 stable? My case temp is 26C


I have it stable on air. im using the teamgroup kit. I chose it over the gskill because it was 36-46-46-84 vs 36-46-46-121. also because it came in white which matched the apex mobo better

never even tested stock xmp went straight to 8000 and had it working at stock voltage. 
now im doing 8000 34 46 46 34 but it needs 1.63v. with xmp2 RTLs seem to already be tuned well. tuned tREFI and tRFC. need to tune the rest


----------



## WayWayUp

question about tREFI
ive alway run it at 65535

now i see people are running it at 262143 

since when have people been using the new figure?


----------



## Dinnzy

I booted up the gskill adie 6400 kit on a z690 unify x. 1st try on 7600 memory try it. I think it was 36 44 44 in occt I’ve only gotten 1 error ! Occt pleb I know ;p the previous 7200 kit I got could not even come close to this as far as the amount of error in the testing, has anyone gotten golden bin results with this kit ? What timings/combos would you try for lower latency. (Warzone boi) also running 1.1 SA 1.4 dram voltage and 1.42 Vddq


----------



## kunit13

Dinnzy said:


> I booted up the gskill adie 6400 kit on a z690 unify x. 1st try on 7600 memory try it. I think it was 36 38 38 in occt I’ve only gotten 1 error ! Occt pleb I know ;p the previous 7200 kit I got could not even come close to this as far as the amount of error in the testing, has anyone gotten golden bin results with this kit ? What timings/combos would you try for lower latency. (Warzone boi) also running 1.1 SA 1.4 dram voltage and 1.42 Vddq


I have the 7200tg kit, just got the 7600tg kit mail. I’ll do some testing tonight. My 7200mz kit with tight timings did about 53ns (xmp was 60ns). For some reason with the 7200 kit I couldn’t get it to do much above 7400. I’m also a Wz guy lol. I can send you some cap frame x data if you want. Comparing xmp vs. tight timings vs. tight timings + Oc.


----------



## WayWayUp

Dinnzy said:


> I booted up the gskill adie 6400 kit on a z690 unify x. 1st try on 7600 memory try it. I think it was 36 44 44 in occt I’ve only gotten 1 error ! Occt pleb I know ;p the previous 7200 kit I got could not even come close to this as far as the amount of error in the testing, has anyone gotten golden bin results with this kit ? What timings/combos would you try for lower latency. (Warzone boi) also running 1.1 SA 1.4 dram voltage and 1.42 Vddq


 
there are a plethora of timings you can play with to lower latency
but you will need to be willing to raise SA voltage as 1.1 wont cut it if you want to have really good latency. start with tREFI and tRFC

It's also easy to go too low on tRFC and you could can corrupt windows. technically secondary timing, it's impact is as big as a primary timings in how much it helps performance.

tREFI is a temp sensitive timing, but can yield large performance increase in latency. before you go to secondary you should fine tune the primaries. you have reasonable voltages if your willing to go a little higher try for cl34 first


----------



## motivman

WayWayUp said:


> I have it stable on air. im using the teamgroup kit. I chose it over the gskill because it was 36-46-46-84 vs 36-46-46-121. also because it came in white which matched the apex mobo better
> 
> never even tested stock xmp went straight to 8000 and had it working at stock voltage.
> now im doing 8000 34 46 46 34 but it needs 1.63v. with xmp2 RTLs seem to already be tuned well. tuned tREFI and tRFC. need to tune the rest


Sheesh, 1.63v on air? how do you cool that? just got 7800 CL36 stable, and I had to increase tras to 56 to pass. I first tried 28 and 36, but those kept erroring out. Next up is 8000... but not sure I can get it stable on air. My temps are already too high...


----------



## motivman

WayWayUp said:


> question about tREFI
> ive alway run it at 65535
> 
> now i see people are running it at 262143
> 
> since when have people been using the new figure?


That is maxing it out. Need cold temps for that though. Usually on air, I limit to either 65535 or 132000


----------



## pipes

don1376 said:


> These are working great for me. Add a piece of thermal pad over PMIC and stick them on. Got a good 10-15c drop over stock spreaders with fan blowing on them. $20 for 2 pair. LM YN Desktop Memory RAM Cooler Heat Sink Pure Copper - Pack of 2 https://a.co/d/hkFn0uS


So good, but one is for only one mudelw of ram? Or is it for two?


Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Carillo

SoldierRBT said:


> Sticks are fine. Problem could be either BIOS or IMC. I think cstkl mentioned before that 8400 and above has cold boot issues.
> View attachment 2587001



RAM test and HCI does not say much about system stability. Only shows your sticks is up for the task. Your problem with cold boot is most likely imc related. Try using higher MC voltage or/and set TWR to auto. Always set twrpre and twrpden manually, not the other way around. That can also lead to cold boot / training issues. I have no cold boot issues with 8400.


----------



## Carillo

motivman said:


> That is maxing it out. Need cold temps for that though. Usually on air, I limit to either 65535 or 132000


Why do say that ? There is no problem running 262143 on air, even on the worst binned sticks i have tried.


----------



## Qwer99

This is the result of hynix mdie green stick on air stable (0.0 temp is bug)

per dimm
chA vdd 1.78v vddq 1.71v vpp 1.805v
chB vdd 1.79v vddq 1.7v vpp 1.805v
cpu vddq 1.575v
Aux 1.85v
sa 1.396v
vdd2 auto


----------



## Dodgexander

Just trying to get the most out of my Micron 5200 XMP sticks until Hynix A die drops in price.
With these timings, I already reduced latency over 12ns vs XMP according to Aid64 test.
Since the screenshot I got tFAW down to 4 following the tRRD_L or tRRD*4 rule and I've been working on getting tWR down by reducing tdpre / tdpden.
First, I reduced tCL and tCWL as low as they go (using tCWL=tCL-2 rule). The limit of these is a hard 32/30, later reduce tdpre / tdpden down to 55 each.

Anyone see anything I'm doing wrong here?
I try to understand rules, but it's overwhelming.

VDD and VDDQ are set to 1.4v
1.0 SA
1.1 IMC
1.2 VDD2

12700k / Edge Wifi Z790i

I am amateur compared to some of you guys, so I hope you can spot something obvious I do wrong, and can improve.


----------



## motivman

Qwer99 said:


> This is the result of hynix mdie green stick on air stable (0.0 temp is bug)
> 
> per dimm
> chA vdd 1.78v vddq 1.71v vpp 1.805v
> chB vdd 1.79v vddq 1.7v vpp 1.805v
> cpu vddq 1.575v
> Aux 1.85v
> sa 1.396v
> vdd2 auto
> View attachment 2587052



HOLY mother of VOLTAGE!!!! might try this on my M-die, if it dies, it DIES, lol... but wait, HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT ON AIR????? is your room like 2C or something?


----------



## morph.

opt33 said:


> Bitspower heatsinks arrived an hour ago (camera date is off), first pic tg7600 kit in bitspower hs with 13 w/mk pads 1.5mm back, 1.0mm on IC's, and 0.5mm (8 w/mk) on pmic.
> 
> max vdd/vddq before temp errors in 27C (internal case) ambient:
> stock heatsink--------1.45v max stable, 1.50v tm5 bsod in seconds.
> bare IC's---------------1.50v tm5 10 mins, 1.52v errors/reboot, IC temps must be ~5-6c lower based on needed drop in ambient to allow 1.5V.
> bitspower heatsink--1.55 tm5 10 mins no error, then ran 1.50v below (pic) for temp comparison with bare ic run (ambient/internal case temps 1.5C higher than bare ic run posted earlier), IC temps must be 10-11+C lower, as need that much lower ambient to run 1.55 tm5 10 mins).
> 
> Now can try 8000 given 7800c36 needs 1.43 vdd/vddq, so will have enough voltage headroom, though dont have high hopes of my cpu capable of 8000 on this 4 dimm mobo.
> 
> (btw alphacool $12 ddr heatsinks, and monarch, neither that I bought fit ddr5, only ddr4 apparently...too short only covered 3/4 ic chip), bitspower fit great.
> 
> View attachment 2586254
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2586255


Ordered a set with the block. Looking at their instructions their thermal pads just 1mm? Some secret sauce going your thicknesses?


----------



## morph.

@Nizzen did you pad or TIM your IC’s with the bit power kit if so what thickness pads?


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> @Nizzen did you pad or TIM your IC’s with the bit power kit if so what thickness pads?


I think BartX ones use TIM on the memory ICs. For Bitspower, you use thermal pad.
Only PMIC thermal pad is used for the BartX.
Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## newls1

satinghostrider said:


> I think BartX ones use TIM on the memory ICs. For Bitspower, you use thermal pad.
> Only PMIC thermal pad is used for the BartX.
> Correct me if I am wrong.


I believe that is correct. That is what Lummi did on his video for them i believe


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> @Nizzen did you pad or TIM your IC’s with the bit power kit if so what thickness pads?


Bitspower: use 0.5mm pad on ic, 1.0mm on pmic, 1.5mm on the back.


----------



## rent0n

Qwer99 said:


> This is the result of hynix mdie green stick on air stable (0.0 temp is bug)
> 
> per dimm
> chA vdd 1.78v vddq 1.71v vpp 1.805v
> chB vdd 1.79v vddq 1.7v vpp 1.805v
> cpu vddq 1.575v
> Aux 1.85v
> sa 1.396v
> vdd2 auto
> View attachment 2587052


Can you share PMIC Turbo mode?


----------



## Chintz

I made some tests regarding tREFI and its latency impact. I used PYPrime for this, as it shows a little more consistent values (after you run it 2-3 times). With Aida it is even harder to measure for me.

tREFI 6826 (Auto) - 8.385 s
tREFI 65535 - 7.637 s
tREFI 130560 - 7.608 s
tREFI 262143 - 7.612 s

There is significant better value from Auto to 65535, but after that it seems to me the gains are not that big. That the value for 130560 vs. 262143 is slightly better is probably measurement inaccuracy.


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> Bitspower: use 0.5mm pad on ic, 1.0mm on pmic, 1.5mm on the back.


Interesting the instructions only show 1mm pads, I ask cause I’ll be getting better after market pads heh.


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> Interesting the instructions only show 1mm pads, I ask cause I’ll be getting better after market pads heh.
> View attachment 2587129


Yes i use "the best" pads too


----------



## bhav

Nizzen said:


> Yes i use "the best" pads too


Not sure if they're the best or anything, I just bought these pads because they're cheap:



Amazon.co.uk



So far used for M.2s and adding 7mm VRM heatsinks to bare VRMs on Asrock boards, I was also thinking I might need them for my 3080 Ti, but it turns out it sits at under 95c Vram so no need, I just won't OC it.


----------



## morph.

you can get up to 15w/mk now with pads such as thermal rights


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> you can get up to 15w/mk now with pads such as thermal rights


I wouldn't use those pads if the shore scale shows that it's harder than the others. The PMIC is very sensitive and the last thing you'd want is unnecessarily more pressure on that. I think the Arctic pads and Gelid Extremes would do great. Wouldn't use the Gelid Ultimates for example as they are much too hard and not as squishy under pressure.


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> I wouldn't use those pads if the shore scale shows that it's harder than the others. The PMIC is very sensitive and the last thing you'd want is unnecessarily more pressure on that. I think the Arctic pads and Gelid Extremes would do great. Wouldn't use the Gelid Ultimates for example as they are much too hard and not as squishy under pressure.


these sound good IMHO VALOR ODIN 95x50x1.0mm – Thermalright


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> these sound good IMHO VALOR ODIN 95x50x1.0mm – Thermalright


Sounds about right. The Gelid Extremes are 35 on the shore scale.


----------



## morph.

Anyone got handy the dimensions of the skhynix a-die ic's?


----------



## CptSpig

Qwer99 said:


> This is the result of hynix mdie green stick on air stable (0.0 temp is bug)
> 
> per dimm
> chA vdd 1.78v vddq 1.71v vpp 1.805v
> chB vdd 1.79v vddq 1.7v vpp 1.805v
> cpu vddq 1.575v
> Aux 1.85v
> sa 1.396v
> vdd2 auto
> View attachment 2587052


Edit: QXE pointed out that is M-Die. Sorry my bad. I would not run voltages that high!


----------



## Nizzen

CptSpig said:


> Your CPU-Z shows Hynix A-Die and that voltage is way to high. VDD and VDDQ should be around 1.4 for 7600.


have you seen TRFC 330 with A-die?


----------



## QXE

CptSpig said:


> Your CPU-Z shows Hynix A-Die and that voltage is way to high. VDD and VDDQ should be around 1.4 for 7600.


Its M die. Those sticks have MEB In the part number. Greensticks with A die have AGB in the part number.


----------



## motivman

How I achieved 8000 on air with _crap XMP timings_ and minimal effort

Step 1. Update Z790 Apex bios to 0805
Step 2. Enable XMP
Step 3. Increase voltage to 1.5V
Step 4. Run TM5 and stable
Step 5. Game and use PC for at least 12 hours, no crashes
Step 6. PROFIT

*Not gonna mess with timings for a few days, memory overclocking is too time consuming, LOL. My m-die at 7400 CL34 still has better latency, LOL... sure this will change once I tighten timings*


----------



## CptSpig

Nizzen said:


> have you seen TRFC 330 with A-die?


Yes, his timings need some work!


----------



## acoustic

CptSpig said:


> Yes, his timings need some work!


On A-Die? I have never seen anyone hit 330 tRFC with A-Die 🧐


----------



## CptSpig

QXE said:


> Its M die. Those sticks have MEB In the part number. Greensticks with A die have AGB in the part number.


Your right my bad. Still I would not run voltages that high!


----------



## CptSpig

CptSpig said:


> Yes, his timings need some work!





acoustic said:


> On A-Die? I have never seen anyone hit 330 tRFC with A-Die 🧐


QXE, pointed out this M-Die. My bad.


----------



## acoustic

CptSpig said:


> QXE, pointed out this M-Die. My bad.


I want to see A-Die with 330 tRFC. The latency would be amazing if you had M-Die timings with A-Die frequency. Hopefully we see new ICs with the new year that bring us the best of both worlds.


----------



## Agent-A01

fireanimal said:


> I am in the process of trying to get a set of A die stabilized on a Strix Z790-I @ 8000. Running into a bunch of stability issues so I thought I would swap out the heat spreaders with a set of EK monarch that I have left over from my last build. When I pulled the factory heat spreaders I noticed that each stick has different Die lots for the IC's. I thought that matched sets of Gskill were matched sets? Not sure if this is an issue, but I find it odd.


Hard to read but does it say 233a and 234a on the other stick?

I doubt it will matter much but maybe you can try seeing if one stick does better than the other


----------



## newls1

motivman said:


> How I achieved 8000 on air with _crap XMP timings_ and minimal effort
> 
> Step 1. Update Z790 Apex bios to 0805
> Step 2. Enable XMP
> Step 3. Increase voltage to 1.5V
> Step 4. Run TM5 and stable
> Step 5. Game and use PC for at least 12 hours, no crashes
> Step 6. PROFIT
> 
> *Not gonna mess with timings for a few days, memory overclocking is too time consuming, LOL. My m-die at 7400 CL34 still has better latency, LOL... sure this will change once I tighten timings*
> 
> View attachment 2587162


damn i want this board BAD! You have so much potential left on the table


----------



## tibcsi0407

acoustic said:


> I want to see A-Die with 330 tRFC. The latency would be amazing if you had M-Die timings with A-Die frequency. Hopefully we see new ICs with the new year that bring us the best of both worlds.


I believe Samsung will come back with a bada** IC.


----------



## don1376

pipes said:


> So good, but one is for only one mudelw of ram? Or is it for two?
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


One is for one stick of ram. So have to order 2. Little over $20.


----------



## fireanimal

Agent-A01 said:


> Hard to read but does it say 233a and 234a on the other stick?
> 
> I doubt it will matter much but maybe you can try seeing if one stick does better than the other


Yes thats correct, 233A and 234A. Setting in right now at 7600, can boot higher upto 8400 but errors at 7800+. Guessing it maybe the 0703 bios on the strix


----------



## soulofuniverse

centvalny said:


> 7200c32 with green hynix strips and Apex bios 0046
> 
> View attachment 2542332


Hi Buddy, well done, great results, we managed to get 6400 stable with 30-38-38-68-106, 1.5v and temps below 40 but we use EK water radiators and 140mm fan, I suppose you are running them under water block? Your latency is great I get 56 the best


----------



## motivman

….


----------



## bhav

tibcsi0407 said:


> I believe Samsung will come back with a bada** IC.


Given that they were originally planning to discontinue B die DDR4 after releasing A die, I'm doubtful.

Ram manufacturers don't set out on purpose to make the best ram, they just make whatever and its up to us to find out whats best.


----------



## sulalin

ROG Z690 APEX & ADIE 81N 9000MHZ into the BIOS ~ can not enter the system.......T-FORCE DDR5 8800MHZ SINGLE 9470MHZ in 8P+16E/HT air cooling


----------



## pipes

This product seems very good to me, does anyone use it or know any reviews? and it has a good price
Bykski B-MRC-X


----------



## Carillo

Anyone tested or seen any good 13600K memory oc with A or M-die ?


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> damn i want this board BAD! You have so much potential left on the table


Finally tightened up my timings for DDR5 8000 CL36. The only timing I am bummed about is Trefi, 65535 failed after about 50 minutes.. temps are just too high on air. Excited to see what this kit can do under water, but I am not too sure how to remove Gskill heatspreaders. I am very familiar with removing team group heatspreaders, so have to see if I can recreate these timings on my teamgroup 7200 kit that are on the way. Even though I achieved 8000 with pretty tight timings, I find it hard to justify the $465 with tax I paid for this gskill kit. My teamgroup 7200 kit costs me only $90 after using some amazon gift cards I had lying around. Got the Gskill kit as an impulse buy from my local microcenter. At the end of the day, the $725 I paid for the Z790 Apex is worth it and more, cannot even imagine getting any thing close to this on my Z690 Unify-X. Now just have to figure out how to overclock my CPU on this Asus board, lol.


----------



## tibcsi0407

bhav said:


> Given that they were originally planning to discontinue B die DDR4 after releasing A die, I'm doubtful.
> 
> Ram manufacturers don't set out on purpose to make the best ram, they just make whatever and its up to us to find out whats best.


I think that's like a matter of prestige for them who can make the better RAM. DDR5 is just launched a year ago, so I think we will see a lot of changes in the future.


----------



## bhav

tibcsi0407 said:


> I think that's like a matter of prestige for them who can make the better RAM. DDR5 is just launched a year ago, so I think we will see a lot of changes in the future.


If that was true Samsung would not have initially wanted to discontinue their B die, and Micron would not have already discontinued theirs.

They don't even have any clue about overclocking until we do it and post the numbers.

Micron especially, they could still be milking the kit I have if it was priced right because they are still the best 16 Gb modules for 4 dimm 64 Gb setup, but they themselves don't know this!


----------



## borant

motivman said:


> How I achieved 8000 on air with _crap XMP timings_ and minimal effort
> 
> Step 1. Update Z790 Apex bios to 0805
> Step 2. Enable XMP
> Step 3. Increase voltage to 1.5V
> Step 4. Run TM5 and stable
> Step 5. Game and use PC for at least 12 hours, no crashes
> Step 6. PROFIT
> 
> *Not gonna mess with timings for a few days, memory overclocking is too time consuming, LOL. My m-die at 7400 CL34 still has better latency, LOL... sure this will change once I tighten timings*
> 
> View attachment 2587162


This is Gskill 7600, right? 
My TG 7600 is 8000 stable at 1.435, [email protected], [email protected]
I'm curious what will be results from folks who bought Gskill [email protected] for extra 30%. It appears like TG adie binning could be better bang for the buck


----------



## tibcsi0407

bhav said:


> If that was true Samsung would not have initially wanted to discontinue their B die, and Micron would not have already discontinued theirs.
> 
> They don't even have any clue about overclocking until we do it and post the numbers.
> 
> Micron especially, they could still be milking the kit I have if it was priced right because they are still the best 16 Gb modules for 4 dimm 64 Gb setup, but they themselves don't know this!


Are you sure about this? We know their ic better than the manufacturer?


----------



## bhav

tibcsi0407 said:


> Are you sure about this? We know their ic better than the manufacturer?


Ask yourself then, why did both crucial and g skill initially release 2x16 3200 and not any higher, and meanwhile overclockers were pushing them to 3733CL14 and 4000+?

Then after people started posting their results we get 3600 / 4000+ bins?

Why does Hynix M die exist in 4800 sticks that we push to 7000+?

They learn what the kits can do after overclockers test them.

Also I have a lot of messages and replies from Crucial support, the tldr is they had zero clue about their kits.


----------



## tibcsi0407

bhav said:


> Ask yourself then, why did both crucial and g skill initially release 2x16 3200 and not any higher, and meanwhile overclockers were pushing them to 3733CL14 and 4000+?
> 
> Then after people started posting their results we get 3600 / 4000+ bins?
> 
> Why does Hynix M die exist in 4800 sticks that we push to 7000+?
> 
> They learn what the kits can do after overclockers test them.
> 
> Also I have a lot of messages and replies from Crucial support, the tldr is they had zero clue about their kits.


That's 4800 due to jedec standard.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Any1 messing with ODT settings on ASUS boards with A-die?


----------



## motivman

borant said:


> This is Gskill 7600, right?
> My TG 7600 is 8000 stable at 1.435, [email protected], [email protected]
> I'm curious what will be results from folks who bought Gskill [email protected] for extra 30%. It appears like TG adie binning could be better bang for the buck


Wow, before I got the Gskill, I got the TG 7600 kit from amazon, granted I was still on the unify-x, but the thing would not even boot up at 7600


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> I think that's like a matter of prestige for them who can make the better RAM. DDR5 is just launched a year ago, so I think we will see a lot of changes in the future.


DDR5 was launched in 2020 I thought.


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> DDR5 was launched in 2020 I thought.


Yes, on paper. But the real launch was last year with Alder Lake.


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> Yes, on paper. But the real launch was last year with Alder Lake.











Feast your eyes on the first DDR5 memory modules


This DRAM is faster than yours (unless you’ve wildly overclocked some exotic DDR4)




www.theverge.com


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> Feast your eyes on the first DDR5 memory modules
> 
> 
> This DRAM is faster than yours (unless you’ve wildly overclocked some exotic DDR4)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theverge.com


Yes, this was the paper launch, let me quote from the article:
*Update 7:53PM ET: *_Added SK Hynix’s comment that it expects to commercialize the DDR5 modules in Q3 2021._


----------



## tibcsi0407

7600 Tight on Gskill 6400 Dimms


----------



## Herald

Any idea between gskill 7600 and teamgroup 7600? Not planning to oc them, just to tighten the timings a bit. Any binning difference between them?


----------



## rulik006

From EVGA forum


> I was able to dramatically increase my memory overclock with M-die. On 2.03 I max out at 6800 stable, 7000-7200 benchable. On 2.04 I was able to run it 7800. MASSIVE improvement for M-die. Just the messed up ring clock for me and kind of flakey changes in behavior that I had to figure out. I look forward to using 2.04's replacement once EVGA sorts out some of the bugs.





Spoiler: M-die 7800+360tRFC z690 dark


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> From EVGA forum
> 
> 
> Spoiler: M-die 7800+360tRFC z690 dark


This was the only benchmark he managed to do?


----------



## fireanimal

Testing the new 0806 bios for my Strix Z790-I. Way more stable so far. I could not get anything to run error free @ 7800 before, now just working my way up. Question does anyone know why Intel MLC is giving such a low latency time?


----------



## the_patchelor

have you tried lower IMC and SA voltages?


----------



## z390e

rs199208 said:


> Feast your eyes on the first DDR5 memory modules
> 
> 
> This DRAM is faster than yours (unless you’ve wildly overclocked some exotic DDR4)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theverge.com


"the verge" should never be cited on this website for anything other than something to mock, imo


----------



## J_Lab4645

So....for those of you that want a half-way decent DDR5 A-die OC w/o any active cooling whatsoever (no ram fans/no water cooling). This is TG 7600 oc to 8200. As soon as I oc'd over 8200 to 8600, the law of DIMINISHING RETURNS was in full effect here. The amount of V required (dimms/IMC) to achieve higher oc's was just ridiculous for performance % achieved. I get that a small percentage of you are after the MAX (whatever it takes) to have the SUPREME high/benchmark score so this is not going to apply to you. This post is for you guys out there that don't either have the room for active cooling or don't really care for the next 5-10% achieved from cooling your ram.


----------



## Carillo

J_Lab4645 said:


> So....for those of you that want a half-way decent DDR5 A-die OC w/o any active cooling whatsoever (no ram fans/no water cooling). This is TG 7600 oc to 8200. As soon as I oc'd over 8200 to 8800, the law of DIMINISHING RETURNS was in full effect here. The amount of V required (dimms/IMC) to achieve higher oc's was just ridiculous for performance % achieved. I get that a small percentage of you are after the MAX (whatever it takes) to have the SUPREME high/benchmark score so this is not going to apply to you.
> View attachment 2587379


Lol, please share your 8800 OC with diminishing returns. Most people are not even able to boot 8800, so if you have it, please ad a photo  Btw running 8200 with so loose timings is pointless, you are better off running 7800-8000 with much tighter subs.


----------



## Nizzen

Initial testing with the new 0806 bios. Stock cpu with all powersave on.










Just a small Karhu test for gaming stable....


----------



## WayWayUp

Carillo said:


> Lol, please share your 8800 OC with diminishing returns. Most people are not even able to boot 8800, so if you have it, please ad a photo  Btw running 8200 with so loose timings is pointless, you are better off running 7800-8000 with much tighter subs.


i noticed this. im running 8000 but my read/write/copy are all decently higher
also noticed his tREFI and tRAS are unoptimized.
But he is at least running lowish voltage around 1.5 so maybe thats why. i am running auto IO voltage and i noticed core package temps on the cpu jumped. not sure if when i went to 34cas my system spiked that voltage so now i have to set it manually. so there could be valuable info in his post
still its nice to see a decent 8200 oc on good voltage and his latency is pretty good.
he can prob bring it down to 50ns if he tweaks a few other things which is the gold standard with ddr5


----------



## WayWayUp

Nizzen said:


> Initial testing with the new 0806 bios. Stock cpu with all powersave on.
> 
> View attachment 2587382
> 
> 
> Just a small Karhu test for gaming stable....
> 
> View attachment 2587380


im just curious
is there a rhyme or reason to 69 tRP? was that timing giving you trouble? you still got 50ns so obviously you dont NEED it lower but just curious


----------



## J_Lab4645

Carillo said:


> Lol, please share your 8800 OC with diminishing returns. Most people are not even able to boot 8800, so if you have it, please ad a photo  Btw running 8200 with so loose timings is pointless, you are better off running 7800-8000 with much tighter subs.



I do apologize. It wasn't 8800 it was 8600. Been testing all day and had a typo...whatcha goona do?


----------



## J_Lab4645

WayWayUp said:


> i noticed this. im running 8000 but my read/write/copy are all decently higher
> also noticed his tREFI and tRAS are unoptimized.
> But he is at least running lowish voltage around 1.5 so maybe thats why. i am running auto IO voltage and i noticed core package temps on the cpu jumped. not sure if when i went to 34cas my system spiked that voltage so now i have to set it manually. so there could be valuable info in his post
> still its nice to see a decent 8200 oc on good voltage and his latency is pretty good.
> he can prob bring it down to 50ns if he tweaks a few other things which is the gold standard with ddr5


 My tREFI is optimized for 24/7. ....not benchmarking


----------



## J_Lab4645

Again.....................My post is about NO ACTiVE RAM COOLING! jesus H Fack


----------



## energie80

Friend they are trying to help you, I have better timings and same bandwidth at 7600


----------



## Nizzen

WayWayUp said:


> im just curious
> is there a rhyme or reason to 69 tRP? was that timing giving you trouble? you still got 50ns so obviously you dont NEED it lower but just curious


It was unlucky timing. Couldn't post. This and new timing to auto , and it turned out pretty good lol. New bios, new supprices 😆


----------



## energie80

Any suggestion is welcome with timings optimisation


----------



## J_Lab4645

energie80 said:


> Friend they are trying to help you, I have better timings and same bandwidth at 7600


tREFI is a fools game. Run that benchmark for 24 hours w/o active cooling.......get back to me. I'm just realizing how many people are about benchmarks. Holy fu**** ....yep, and the bottle of red wine is toast. I'm out*


----------



## Nizzen

Testing with relaxed timings. I NEED more than 1.4 IMC vdd. 1.44 is about right for 8533 on my cpu. 1.42 failed after 10 min. 1.4v failed after 1 min 








16 min and still going...


----------



## energie80

I don’t even bench mate, I just game 😅


----------



## Nizzen

J_Lab4645 said:


> tREFI is a fools game. Run that benchmark for 24 hours w/o active cooling.......get back to me. I'm just realizing how many people are about benchmarks. Holy fu**** ....yep, and the bottle of red wine is toast. I'm out*


Try running Cinebench on aircooling without active cooling......get back to me with the result 
Same epic fail 😘🤠


----------



## Carillo

energie80 said:


> Any suggestion is welcome with timings optimisation
> View attachment 2587396


Try trdrd_dg and twrwr_dg to 7. twrwr_sg to 9 and trdwr_sg and dg 17  trtp 10


----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> I don’t even bench mate, I just game 😅


I'm benchmarking Battlefield 2042 while gaming 😎


----------



## energie80

Carillo said:


> Try trdrd_dg and twrwr_dg to 7. twrwr_sg to 9 and trdwr_sg and dg 17  trtp 10


Thanks


----------



## Carillo

You should always push your memory OC towards this, then reinstall windows after dialing it back a bit


----------



## Nizzen

Carillo said:


> You should always push your memory OC towards this, then reinstall windows after dialing it back a bit
> View attachment 2587399


If games or windows isn't crashing, you haven't overclocked far enough 😇🤓


----------



## energie80

Carillo said:


> Try trdrd_dg and twrwr_dg to 7. twrwr_sg to 9 and trdwr_sg and dg 17  trtp 10


Any value lower then 19 trdwr and it doesn’t even boot. 😕


----------



## Carillo

energie80 said:


> Any value lower then 19 trdwr and it doesn’t even boot. 😕


Yeah, need good bin for that. 19 is fine


----------



## energie80

Carillo said:


> Yeah, need good bin for that. 19 is fine


Yea
stable at least 1.45vdd


----------



## 673714

Alrighty then, I guess my G.Skill isn't M-die after all? When I set tRFC2 = 320 it's unstable, it works at 333 though. Didn't you guys say that means it's A-die?


----------



## sugi0lover

This is a good m-die ddr5 oc by Doojin.
7800 CL34 (with low trfc 340, which is possible only with m-die)
*VDD 1.65v / VDDQ 1.62v / TX 1.57v / SA 1.2v







*


----------



## rs199208

z390e said:


> "the verge" should never be cited on this website for anything other than something to mock, imo


I was just responding to a post that used the term "launch" for DDR5.
Didn't care which site i chose because Hynix themselves called it the world's first DDR5 launch so didn't matter where I got it. 
Then realized the post meant actual commercialization, myself didn't remember if anything happened before alder lake.


----------



## rs199208

tibcsi0407 said:


> 7600 Tight on Gskill 6400 Dimms
> 
> View attachment 2587279
> View attachment 2587280


Never mind site messing up for me. Saw different pic.


----------



## tibcsi0407

rs199208 said:


> Never mind site messing up for me. Saw different pic.


No problem.


----------



## DanLillibridge

fireanimal said:


> Testing the new 0806 bios for my Strix Z790-I. Way more stable so far. I could not get anything to run error free @ 7800 before, now just working my way up. Question does anyone know why Intel MLC is giving such a low latency time?
> 
> View attachment 2587331
> View attachment 2587332


Im also on Strix Z790i and cant go above 7600 stable. I'm not seeing these BIOS available for our board? How did you get them?

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## WayWayUp

I’m trying to figure out which setting Maximus tweak 2 is doing that needs so much voltage
Has anyone messed around with it before?


----------



## Dinnzy

Have any of you seen 12900ks memory thay overclock better then there 13900k? I booted 7800 with my ks. Also was thinking maybe my thermal grizzly bracket is to tight ?


----------



## rs199208

Dinnzy said:


> Have any of you seen 12900ks memory thay overclock better then there 13900k? I booted 7800 with my ks. Also was thinking maybe my thermal grizzly bracket is to tight ?


I can boot 7800 on my KS. Even with 6400 timings lol! 
Got 7400 stable also. taking one more shot at stabilizing 7600 before I upgrade to a z790 to see how much further my KS and 12900k can go.


----------



## centvalny

Test mdie air

Apex 0051 Test BIOS for Maximus Z790 Apex | bianbao.dev


----------



## adolf512

For some reason i couldn't get tRAS below 50


----------



## adolf512

Has anyone mamanaged to get more than 6600 MT/s stable in dual rank gear 2 yet? (raptor lake).


----------



## fireanimal

DanLillibridge said:


> Im also on Strix Z790i and cant go above 7600 stable. I'm not seeing these BIOS available for our board? How did you get them?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan


Same I was only stable to 7600 on A-die before, got 8000 now, just working on stability but 8200+ is no go for me. The beta bios is in the strix/maximus owners thread.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/o...imus-z790-owners-thread.1800191/post-29088239


----------



## Simkin

3 Run of Anta Absolute, G.Skill 7600 running XMP Tweaked, stock 13900K, Apex Z790 0806 bios

Temp maxed out on 50.5c, 22c room temp, not so bad after all temp wise. (one SP120 fan running 85% in the sidedoor, so a bit away from the dimms + Noctua 40mm running 100% above dimms)


----------



## WayWayUp

Doesn’t the Aida64 come with the Apex for free?
How do I claim this
I thought there would be a paper in the box or a code on the floppy disk


----------



## db000

Not posted anything in a while! But I'm activly reading and loving your guys progress! Good work all of you. About to join the Z790 now aswell, just got the Apex. Z690 Apex sold since a few months. Been very satisified with the Z690 Unify-X, been nice too me. Can't wait for the launch of 13900KS.

Some updated pics on the build. Nothing insane, still running the same 6800 C30-40-40-30 decent timings, only new thing really is the 4090 Strix and that I'm now running 5.5-5.7Ghz light load on the KS with the Delta2 block. Obviously less clocks in BF2042 and other heavy all-core titles, where the TEC can't keep up for obvious reasons. 360+360+420, 15x ML Pros.

*Appriciate if anyone wanna share more with same setup (Z790 Apex, 12900KS, 6400CL32 M-die)*  No 13900K right now, unless I can't get a 13900KS.









_Z690 Unify-X, 2022-12_










_ 2022-06-14 Old SS








_


----------



## Nizzen

WayWayUp said:


> Doesn’t the Aida64 come with the Apex for free?
> How do I claim this
> I thought there would be a paper in the box or a code on the floppy disk


Install "armory" if you dare 😱


----------



## themad

Nizzen said:


> Install "armory" if you dare 😱


Really? Need to do that to get an Aida64 license?


----------



## WayWayUp

Nizzen said:


> Install "armory" if you dare 😱


Oh no 😩😨


----------



## rulik006

Finally! successor for HEDT is coming with 4-channel & 8-channel DDR5
*Unlocked*
Interesting how W790 Rampage and Dark will look like 
8ch ddr5 oc will be nightmare


----------



## bscool

WayWayUp said:


> Oh no 😩😨


Use a spare ssd/hdd install Windows and AC and get the key out of the Aida install folder would be my suggestion. Then you can download the portable verison of Aida and use it on any computer you want and use to key to activate it.

That way you dont have to install it to a "good/clean" OS.









Overclocking Raptor Lake - 13900k,13700k, 13600k etc...


I believe most 13900K can run full load P-55x/E-43x @ Vcore=1.14v ~1.15v I can run full laod P-55x/E-46x/R-49x @ 1.137v I'm talking about Die Sense... No, not true. I already saw one person on this very thread a few pages back who needed 1.18v (load die-sense) to pass Cinebench R23 for 30...




www.overclock.net





"dowhload one time via armoury crate
go to the program folder
copy the pkey.txt ( if i recall correctly)
uninstall it. use armory crate uninstaller

and download the latest aida. i prefer portable. put thr txt file before in that new aida folder
done. "


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> Use a spare ssd/hdd install Windows and AC and get the key out of the Aida install folder would be my suggestion. Then you can download the portable verison of Aida and use it on any computer you want and use to key to activate it.
> 
> That way you dont have to install it to a "good/clean" OS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking Raptor Lake - 13900k,13700k, 13600k etc...
> 
> 
> I believe most 13900K can run full load P-55x/E-43x @ Vcore=1.14v ~1.15v I can run full laod P-55x/E-46x/R-49x @ 1.137v I'm talking about Die Sense... No, not true. I already saw one person on this very thread a few pages back who needed 1.18v (load die-sense) to pass Cinebench R23 for 30...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "dowhload one time via armoury crate
> go to the program folder
> copy the pkey.txt ( if i recall correctly)
> uninstall it. use armory crate uninstaller
> 
> and download the latest aida. i prefer portable. put thr txt file before in that new aida folder
> done. "


Tnx


----------



## fireanimal

Just looking for some ideas to fine tune this. A-die on a Strix Z790-I. I was getting a ton of errors with SA voltage @ 1.350, tried 1.400 and it took forever to train then just BSOD. Lowered it to 1.200 and this is what I ended up with. I installed Monarch heat spreaders on the ram with a 120mm fan cooling them. Max temp is around 43-45, so I dont think that 1 error on Ramtest is temp related, but not sure as the others passed. 

Another strange thing was when I did get a ton of errors with SA voltage @ 1.350 is that TM5 ANTA Absolute passed 3 cycles but both Ramtest and Memtest Pro failed before 15 minutes.

Thanks!


----------



## acoustic

fireanimal said:


> Just looking for some ideas to fine tune this. A-die on a Strix Z790-I. I was getting a ton of errors with SA voltage @ 1.350, tried 1.400 and it took forever to train then just BSOD. Lowered it to 1.200 and this is what I ended up with. I installed Monarch heat spreaders on the ram with a 120mm fan cooling them. Max temp is around 43-45, so I dont think that 1 error on Ramtest is temp related, but not sure as the others passed.
> 
> Another strange thing was when I did get a ton of errors with SA voltage @ 1.350 is that TM5 ANTA Absolute passed 3 cycles but both Ramtest and Memtest Pro failed before 15 minutes.
> 
> Thanks!
> View attachment 2587541
> View attachment 2587542


Yeah, it’s a real thing that _too much_ SA voltage can cause just as much instability as too little. Try lowering it even further, and you will likely still have stability. Since you’re running Gear2, the frequency the IMC is running is actually quite low, even at 7600-7800.

I believe I’m running 7000 @ 1.190v SA, and that’s only for testing. I can likely put it down to as far as 1.110 at a minimum.


----------



## newls1

What is a good tWR setting for A-Die @ 7700MT/s?


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> What is a good tWR setting for A-Die @ 7700MT/s?


It’s stick dependent. Good is relative to your goals; absolute tightness on the edge of stability, or safe settings. I generally use tWR 12 as my initial start once I establish a frequency as stable, and then work it down from there. I have yet to find a setting that isn’t stable at tWR 12, but I’m also not pushing Uber frequencies.


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> It’s stick dependent. Good is relative to your goals; absolute tightness on the edge of stability, or safe settings. I generally use tWR 12 as my initial start once I establish a frequency as stable, and then work it down from there. I have yet to find a setting that isn’t stable at tWR 12, but I’m also not pushing Uber frequencies.


How is tWR set? I cant remember is this an actual setting in the bios or does another mem setting control this? Ill post you up my settings if you dont mind, could you tell me your thoughts?


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> How is tWR set? I cant remember is this an actual setting in the bios or does another mem setting control this? Ill post you up my settings if you dont mind, could you tell me your thoughts?


It’s directly controlled by tWRPDEN, and affected by tWRPRE (as far as I can tell) and tCWL.

The formula for tWR is kind of multiple..

tWR = tWRPDEN - tCWL - 4

tWRPDEN (tWRPRE) = tWR + tCWL + 8


I just match tWRPRE rather than following the tWRPRE = tWRPDEN - 1 rule.


----------



## Muut

newls1 said:


> How is tWR set? I cant remember is this an actual setting in the bios or does another mem setting control this? Ill post you up my settings if you dont mind, could you tell me your thoughts?


tWRPRE - tCWL - 4 if I'm not mistaken


----------



## Chintz

Intel cpu's dont have a tWR register


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> It’s directly controlled by tWRPDEN, and affected by tWRPRE (as far as I can tell) and tCWL.
> 
> The formula for tWR is
> tWRPDEN (tWRPRE) = tWR + tCWL + 8
> 
> I just match tWRPRE rather than following the tWRPRE = tWRPDEN - 1 rule.


OK, thank you for this info. In that pic I provided, do you think Asrock timing is showing the real tWR value? 8 seems pretty tight. Im not near PC at the moment so I cant go to its bios and check...


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> OK, thank you for this info. In that pic I provided, do you think Asrock timing is showing the real tWR value? 8 seems pretty tight. Im not near PC at the moment so I cant go to its bios and check...


Please see my edited post - was fighting with my phone. I accidentally posted while I was still trying to copy/paste formulas lol.

8 is a pretty good spot to be. It’s fairly tight, some go down to 6 as far as I know.

AsRTC and MSI Dragon Ball show correct tWR values.


----------



## energie80

Msi dragon ball showing 6 TWR in my case


----------



## newls1

acoustic said:


> Please see my edited post - was fighting with my phone. I accidentally posted while I was still trying to copy/paste formulas lol.
> 
> 8 is a pretty good spot to be. It’s fairly tight, some go down to 6 as far as I know.
> 
> AsRTC and MSI Dragon Ball show correct tWR values.


awesome, ill just stay where im at then! Thank you so much


----------



## energie80

thanks to @acoustic 🤣

still can’t go lower then 50ns 🥲


----------



## motivman

acoustic said:


> It’s directly controlled by tWRPDEN, and affected by tWRPRE (as far as I can tell) and tCWL.
> 
> The formula for tWR is kind of multiple..
> 
> tWR = tWRPDEN - tCWL - 4
> 
> tWRPDEN (tWRPRE) = tWR + tCWL + 8
> 
> 
> I just match tWRPRE rather than following the tWRPRE = tWRPDEN - 1 rule.


This is how I set my TWR, might be totally wrong but whatever...

I always use the same value for tWRPDEN and tWRPRE in the bios.

To set a TWR of 12 for example, I add my tCWL+8+(12) = 52 (This is what I set my tWRPDEN and tWRPRE in the bios)

memtweakit is always wrong, adds +3, but AsRTC and Dragon ball always shows the correct value.


----------



## newls1

why are some people showing tWR values of like 96, 112, etc... what is wrong there?


----------



## acoustic

newls1 said:


> why are some people showing tWR values of like 96, 112, etc... what is wrong there?


They have it set to Auto.


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> why are some people showing tWR values of like 96, 112, etc... what is wrong there?


I really don't think twr matters for intel like earlier stated.


----------



## acoustic

motivman said:


> This is how I set my TWR, might be totally wrong but whatever...
> 
> I always use the same value for tWRPDEN and tWRPRE in the bios.
> 
> To set a TWR of 12 for example, I add my tCWL+8+(12) = 52 (This is what I set my tWRPDEN and tWRPRE in the bios)
> 
> memtweakit is always wrong, adds +3, but AsRTC and Dragon ball always shows the correct value.


Yep, you’re following the tWRPDEN formula, like I said above.

There’s apparently a formula that tWRPRE = tWRPDEN - 1, but I found running it equal is perfectly fine.


----------



## bhav

Wrong thread sorry.


----------



## YoungChris

Qwer99 said:


> This is the result of hynix mdie green stick on air stable (0.0 temp is bug)
> 
> per dimm
> chA vdd 1.78v vddq 1.71v vpp 1.805v
> chB vdd 1.79v vddq 1.7v vpp 1.805v
> cpu vddq 1.575v
> Aux 1.85v
> sa 1.396v
> vdd2 auto
> View attachment 2587052


Impressive results! Have you tried 1t for benching? It may work at that frequency.


----------



## DanLillibridge

fireanimal said:


> Same I was only stable to 7600 on A-die before, got 8000 now, just working on stability but 8200+ is no go for me. The beta bios is in the strix/maximus owners thread.
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z790 Owners Thread


Awesome thank you!

Updated bios to 0806 to test it out myself. 

I'm running A die 7600 C36 kit from G.skill.
Asus Z-790i Strix
13900k

Turned on "Tweaked XMP" profile. set speed to 8000mhz,
Dram VDD and VDDQ both to 1.5v
IVR VDDQ to 1.4v

so far 2 hours into a quick Aida64 memory stability test and no issues so far. On the old bios with same settings the test would stop from errors within a minute. So far these bios are looking promising.

Will test more extensively when I don't need to be using my computer for work at the same time haha.


----------



## newls1

DanLillibridge said:


> Awesome thank you!
> 
> Updated bios to 0806 to test it out myself.
> 
> I'm running A die 7600 C36 kit from G.skill.
> Asus Z-790i Strix
> 13900k
> 
> Turned on "Tweaked XMP" profile. set speed to 8000mhz,
> Dram VDD and VDDQ both to 1.5v
> IVR VDDQ to 1.4v
> 
> so far 2 hours into a quick Aida64 memory stability test and no issues so far. On the old bios with same settings the test would stop from errors within a minute. So far these bios are looking promising.
> 
> Will test more extensively when I don't need to be using my computer for work at the same time haha.


no need for 1.5vdd/q.. Id go 1.450 and rerun your tests. That is damn impressive tho.. just hit a few buttons and be off running 8000. Come MSI, get your act together!


----------



## owikh84

My first HCI run since Z390  Last time I stopped using it due to inconsistency issue whenever after the system rebooted.

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2204
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.5v | TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.15v | MC 1.45V*


----------



## motivman

My TG 7200 kit isn’t even stable at 1.4v 7200. What are the chances this thing will even reach 8000 on air? So far it’s passing at 7000 1.4v


----------



## tibcsi0407

motivman said:


> My TG 7200 kit isn’t even stable at 1.4v 7200. What are the chances this thing will even reach 8000 on air? So far it’s passing at 7000 1.4v


Post a Hwinfo on 7200 pls. Let us see your voltages.


----------



## motivman

tibcsi0407 said:


> Post a Hwinfo on 7200 pls. Let us see your voltages.


same voltages my gskill kit passes 7600 with pretty much, lol


----------



## QXE

motivman said:


> My TG 7200 kit isn’t even stable at 1.4v 7200. What are the chances this thing will even reach 8000 on air? So far it’s passing at 7000 1.4v


XMP is almost never stable. Manual tunes have been more successful in my experience.


----------



## motivman

QXE said:


> XMP is almost never stable. Manual tunes have been more successful in my experience.


had to change trcd and trp to 44 and its good so far. So 34-44-44-84 instead of 34-42-42-84 stock xmp timings. SMH


----------



## tibcsi0407

motivman said:


> same voltages my gskill kit passes 7600 with pretty much, lol


That doesn't matter actually. I had to play a lot with the TX, IMC, SA trinity to make it stable.


----------



## adolf512

CPU SA: 1.18 (1.2 before)
CPU VDDQ: 1.21 (1.2 before)
base clock: 100.8 (100 before)

CPU VDD2: 1.35
DDAM voltage: 1.4
DRAM VDDQ: 1.4










Edit: y-cruncher VST found error.


----------



## tibcsi0407

adolf512 said:


> CPU SA: 1.18 (1.2 before)
> CPU VDDQ: 1.21 (1.2 before)
> base clock: 100.8 (100 before)
> 
> CPU VDD2: 1.35
> DDAM voltage: 1.4
> DRAM VDDQ: 1.4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: y-cruncher VST found error.


CPU VDDQ is low AF.


----------



## adolf512

tibcsi0407 said:


> CPU VDDQ is low AF.


1.2 worked for 6400 dual rank.


----------



## adolf512

I reduced CPU SA to 1.12 and it seems to helped in VST (passed over an hour).

Edit: N32 detected error second cycle.


----------



## warbucks

adolf512 said:


> 1.2 worked for 6400 dual rank.


Set to 1.4v and then try and push frequency higher adjusting other voltages as needed.


----------



## adolf512

warbucks said:


> Set to 1.4v and then try and push frequency higher adjusting other voltages as needed.


I run into stability issues if i raise CPU VDDQ too much for some reason. 

Might be due to not using a good cooler or the motherboard (msi pro z790-p) with the cooler (as500plus) being the more likely culprit.


----------



## tibcsi0407

adolf512 said:


> 1.2 worked for 6400 dual rank.


Strange.


----------



## acoustic

adolf512 said:


> I run into stability issues if i raise CPU VDDQ too much for some reason.
> 
> Might be due to not using a good cooler or the motherboard (msi pro z790-p) with the cooler (as500plus) being the more likely culprit.


That’s because too much voltage is as bad as too little. I also run lower CPU VDDQ ; I’m at 1.365v with M-Die @ 7000. You don’t need to crank CPU VDDQ TX voltage, and if you do, it seems to make DRAM VDDQ need to be higher as well.

I’m running 7000 with CPU VDDQ at 1.365v, DRAM VDD at 1.490v, and DRAM VDDQ at 1.370v. If you crank up CPU VDDQ, it makes DRAM VDDQ need to be raised, and subsequently causes instability.


----------



## adolf512

This might be a case of very narrow window for the SA voltage (6436 MT/s, dual rank)

1.18v: VST found error (cycle 8 maybe)
1.12v: N32 found error (cycle 2)
1.14v: N32 found error (cycle 5)
1.15v: No error last time i checked (7 cycles maybe)


----------



## acoustic

adolf512 said:


> This might be a case of very narrow window for the SA voltage (6436 MT/s, dual rank)
> 
> 1.18v: VST found error (cycle 8 maybe)
> 1.12v: N32 found error (cycle 2)
> 1.14v: N32 found error (cycle 5)
> 1.15v: No error last time i checked (7 cycles maybe)


Try going even further to 1.10v.


----------



## Lownage

motivman said:


> Is this on water? can you share sa, imc and tx voltages?


EK Monarch without the watercooler but 120mm fan on top of the GPU blowing onto the RAM. ~35°C under full load (ramtest).

SA 1.3V in bios 
TX 1.4V 
IMC 1.4V 
VDD and VDDQ 1.4V


----------



## Carillo

So today I brought out the old 12400F. Never tried A die with this cpu, but *unfortunately it *still wont boot over 7000 mt/s, but this pretty tight 6933 c28 on Apex z690 works fine for gaming MW2 all air 😅Wish it still was possible to BCLK OC this thing, would be a much better result.


----------



## gtz

Carillo said:


> So today I brought out the old 12400F. Never tried A die with this cpu, but *unfortunately it *still wont boot over 7000 mt/s, but this pretty tight 6933 c28 on Apex z690 works fine for gaming MW2 all air 😅Wish it still was possible to BCLK OC this thing, would be a much better result.
> 
> View attachment 2587755
> View attachment 2587756


Did Intel block BCLK overclocking on locked 12th gen? Or does the Apex not have a clockgen? Just curious.


----------



## Carillo

gtz said:


> Did Intel block BCLK overclocking on locked 12th gen? Or does the Apex not have a clockgen? Just curious.


Apex have external clock gen, i did bclk OC it on earlier bioses witch don’t support A-die


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

These are my stable settings so far for my a die 6800. Any suggestions I can try to get higher frequency?


----------



## centvalny

Back to old M-die @ 8kc34 tight air


----------



## adolf512

acoustic said:


> Try going even further to 1.10v.


I am still testing 1.15v CPU SA which might actually be stable.

I might also test the lower range at some point.

I think the stable range would widen with better CPU cooling or less CPU wattage but i havn't confirmed that yet.


----------



## acoustic

adolf512 said:


> I am still testing 1.15v CPU SA which might actually be stable.
> 
> I might also test the lower range at some point.
> 
> I think the stable range would widen with better CPU cooling or less CPU wattage but i havn't confirmed that yet.



I found a strange wall with CPU SA, VDDQ TX, and DRAM VDDQ where instability begins, and it will get worse as you drop, but drop even further and suddenly it’s stable. That’s how I ended up at 1.370v DRAM VDDQ stable. It might even be 1.360v, but I’m not at my PC to verify right now.


----------



## adolf512

acoustic said:


> I found a strange wall with CPU SA, VDDQ TX, and DRAM VDDQ where instability begins, and it will get worse as you drop, but drop even further and suddenly it’s stable. That’s how I ended up at 1.370v DRAM VDDQ stable. It might even be 1.360v, but I’m not at my PC to verify right now.


That's DDR5 overclocking for you.

5+ different voltages to adjust where the winows of stability can be very narrow.

You need to run multiple stresstest to confirm stability. This takes many hours, otherwise you might find the instability later after you did further changes.

There is also a lot of timings to tweak and these affect performance a lot, especially tthe tertiary ones. The better performance alone can make it unstable though due to stressing the memory controller more.


----------



## konawolv

centvalny said:


> Back to old M-die @ 8kc34 tight air
> 
> View attachment 2587761
> 
> View attachment 2587762


Thats some insane voltage. How high do the temps get under load?


----------



## centvalny

konawolv said:


> Thats some insane voltage. How high do the temps get under load?


Benching voltages not my 24/7 daily system. Temp. is on hwinfo


----------



## motivman

finally got my TG 7200 kit stable at 8000 with relatively tight timings, definately not as tight as my Gskill 7600 kit

TG 7200 @ 8000 C36









G.Skill 7600 @ 8000 C36









$90 for the TG vs $465 for the Gskill, I guess I am keeping the TG kit, lol.


----------



## the_patchelor

TG 7200 @ 8000 C36 shows 8798...


----------



## chibi

motivman said:


> finally got my TG 7200 kit stable at 8000 with relatively tight timings, definately not as tight as my Gskill 7600 kit
> 
> TG 7200 @ 8000 C36
> View attachment 2587786
> 
> 
> G.Skill 7600 @ 8000 C36
> View attachment 2587787
> 
> 
> $90 for the TG vs $465 for the Gskill, I guess I am keeping the TG kit, lol.


What kind of sale did you hit to get the TG for $90? That's insane, lol.


----------



## motivman

the_patchelor said:


> TG 7200 @ 8000 C36 shows 8798...


yeah this kit is possessed. tends to loose stability after reboot. Never had this issue with my Gskill skit. Had to raise voltage significantly and loosen timings to get it stable reboot after reboot, SMH. At this point, I really just want to keep the Gskill kit, but man $465 is a lot of money....


----------



## Agent-A01

motivman said:


> yeah this kit is possessed. tends to loose stability after reboot. Never had this issue with my Gskill skit. Had to raise voltage significantly and loosen timings to get it stable reboot after reboot, SMH. At this point, I really just want to keep the Gskill kit, but man $465 is a lot of money....
> 
> View attachment 2587819


If it keeps stability at 7600 then the choice is obvious on what to keep lol($90 kit)


----------



## adolf512

adolf512 said:


> This might be a case of very narrow window for the SA voltage (6436 MT/s, dual rank)
> 
> 1.18v: VST found error (cycle 8 maybe)
> 1.12v: N32 found error (cycle 2)
> 1.14v: N32 found error (cycle 5)
> 1.15v: No error last time i checked (7 cycles maybe)


Still no error in any of the tests

y-cruncher FFT+N32+HNT+VST for 4.6 hours
prime 95 largest FFT for 45 minutes
linpack extreme for 3 hours

Switched back to y-cruncher, all tests this time.

Since i raised the BLCK by 0.8% instability could theoretically be due to the CPU becoming unstable and not the ram, this is unlikely though since i used the stock CPU settings otherwise where the margin shouldbe greater than 0.8%

Edit: C17 found error

Trying 1.145v CPU SA now

I tried 1.08 and ut didn't work (error in N32)


----------



## WayWayUp

Have we figured out what’s a good MC SP yet?
Finally downloaded a test bios
I’ve been frustrated with my OC and wanted to see if 1) a new bios would bring me higher speeds and 2) if my mc was holding me back or if it’s my ram sticks

I got a 72, just don’t know what it means


----------



## WayWayUp

Wow after playing around with 
Absolutely incredible difference 
With official bios i was stuck at 8000Mhz. 8200 was crash city regardless of my voltage

With this bios I am at 8400 with tighter timings


----------



## Nizzen

WayWayUp said:


> Wow after playing around with
> Absolutely incredible difference
> With official bios i was stuck at 8000Mhz. 8200 was crash city regardless of my voltage
> 
> With this bios I am at 8400 with tighter timings


0806 or 0051?


----------



## 673714

I wasn’t able to resist it any longer, I want










mo powa babeh!


----------



## WebsterRKL

5errors in TM5 running the Gskill 7600/36 kit at 8000 36 46 46 121, VDD and VDDQ both at 1.450v. Apex bios 0805.

Should I loosen timings or increase voltage?

Thank you for any help.


----------



## satinghostrider

WayWayUp said:


> Have we figured out what’s a good MC SP yet?
> Finally downloaded a test bios
> I’ve been frustrated with my OC and wanted to see if 1) a new bios would bring me higher speeds and 2) if my mc was holding me back or if it’s my ram sticks
> 
> I got a 72, just don’t know what it means


Well, I just plugged in a random MC 73 CPU and it can pass a basic xmp 7800c36 Gskill kit. I don't think you'll have much issues if you have an apex and an MC SP rating around there. No contact frame and 0806 bios.

I'll post more when I watercool them little bastards with the Bitspower kit paired with my MC 79 CPU when it's up and overclock it.


----------



## Carillo

WebsterRKL said:


> 5errors in TM5 running the Gskill 7600/36 kit at 8000 36 46 46 121, VDD and VDDQ both at 1.450v. Apex bios 0805.
> 
> Should I loosen timings or increase voltage?
> 
> Thank you for any help.
> 
> View attachment 2587898


46.46 is to tight for 1.45. Try 47 or 48


----------



## WebsterRKL

Carillo said:


> 46.46 is to tight for 1.45. Try 47 or 48


Will do, thank you. 

------

Increased VDD and VDDQ to 1.500v, timings remain at 8000 36 46 46 121, now only 1error. 

My 13600K i5 may not be very good.


----------



## owikh84

Just realized that I accidentally ran an older version of HCI earlier 😅.
HCI Memtest Pro 7.0 requires higher voltage than 6.0.

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2204
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.55v | TX VDDQ 1.55V | SA 1.175v | MC 1.45V*


----------



## warbucks

WebsterRKL said:


> Will do, thank you.
> 
> ------
> 
> Increased VDD and VDDQ to 1.500v, timings remain at 8000 36 46 46 121, now only 1error.
> 
> My 13600K i5 may not be very good.
> 
> View attachment 2587911


Loosen timings. Try 36-48-48


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

satinghostrider said:


> Well, I just plugged in a random MC 73 CPU and it can pass a basic xmp 7800c36 Gskill kit. I don't think you'll have much issues if you have an apex and an MC SP rating around there. No contact frame and 0806 bios.
> 
> I'll post more when I watercool them little bastards with the Bitspower kit paired with my MC 79 CPU when it's up and overclock it.
> 
> View attachment 2587901


How will you remove the memory heatsinks? Acetone or heat gun?


----------



## DeLaHoya

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> How will you remove the memory heatsinks? Acetone or heat gun?


Paint thinner seems to work great. Just soak them about 20-30min, and the heatsinks come off easy.


----------



## WayWayUp

Nizzen said:


> 0806 or 0051?


0051

Also i noticed that tm5 catching certain things better than memtest64…. And vice versa

when I ran trefi at 262xxx it completely passed memtest64
When I ran tm5 it populated like 9 errors in the first 30 seconds

when I switched back to 131070 it was fine again and passed tm5

be careful what program you use to test memory. They all have flaws


----------



## newls1

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> How will you remove the memory heatsinks? Acetone or heat gun?


doesnt get any easier then the heatgun.. took me less then 5 mins to remove both "Heat Retainers" on my gskills using my 10$ harbor freight heat gun. Nearly fell right off


----------



## chibi

WebsterRKL said:


> Will do, thank you.
> 
> ------
> 
> Increased VDD and VDDQ to 1.500v, timings remain at 8000 36 46 46 121, now only 1error.
> 
> My 13600K i5 may not be very good.
> 
> View attachment 2587911


Doesn't look like there's active cooling on the memory either. What are the temps with hwinfo? Can always try to up the primary like Carillo suggested.


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> doesnt get any easier then the heatgun.. took me less then 5 mins to remove both "Heat Retainers" on my gskills using my 10$ harbor freight heat gun. Nearly fell right off


heatgun for the win. removed my team group heatspreaders in less than 5 minutes too. The thing is running much better under water compared to air. However wont boot 8200 AT ALL. Time to flash that 0806 bios...


----------



## OC2000

This is my current stable TG 7200 to 8200 CL34 stable on water (Bios 0806). Getting the G Skill 8000 though as it randomly freaks out at login for idle at 8400 for no reason even though it can complete stress tests


----------



## Chintz

better run usmus 20 cycles in admin mode


----------



## OC2000

Chintz said:


> better run usmus 20 cycles in admin mode


I'll do that when I have finalised the settings. Still working on them. Noticed the admin thing though. Been using it all day though with these settings for other benchmarks with no issues.


----------



## Nizzen

WayWayUp said:


> 0051
> 
> Also i noticed that tm5 catching certain things better than memtest64…. And vice versa
> 
> when I ran trefi at 262xxx it completely passed memtest64
> When I ran tm5 it populated like 9 errors in the first 30 seconds
> 
> when I switched back to 131070 it was fine again and passed tm5
> 
> be careful what program you use to test memory. They all have flaws


I allways use Karhu ramtest first. Looks like it finding errors fast. Then I'm running tm5 and Battlefield


----------



## motivman

so seems like my TG 7200 kit maxes out at 8000 on water!!! very disappointed, while my G.skill kit is chugging along at 8400, lol. I guess the Gskill is the keeper.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

No result from gskill 8000 stick?


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> No result from gskill 8000 stick?


Not here yet in north Europe it looks like


----------



## db000

Nizzen said:


> Not here yet in north Europe it looks like


Nope, waiting for them too.


----------



## Veii

Can you guys assist a bit & give orientation point or how to work with:
I have literally zero information on those P_DEN values








PPD reminds me of DDR3 powerdown mode,
But memory can be a liar - it's been some time


----------



## 673714

Once upon a time, I had an Asus Z690 Extreme and didn’t know what binning was so I got a 12900K and found out it was not great, but it was too late so I was stuck with it.

12900K
SP = 81
P core = 88
E core = 69
MC = 42
Thankfully it was good enough to do XMP(6400MHz) or 6600MHz while only passive cooled with stock G.Skill heat spreaders and thermal pads. The only required change for stability was CPU input voltage = 1.8

When 13th gen came out I got a 13900K as soon as I found one in stock. It was an improvement over the 12th gen for sure.

SP = 95
P core = 105
E core = 76
MC = 70
I was surprised this also wanted 1.8v CPU input voltage for stability. 

After seeing so many other 13th gen owners with P cores above 110 and even some closer to 120, I decided to try 2 more.

1st new CPU
SP = 103
P core = 111
E core = 88
MC = 76

2nd new CPU
SP = 103
P core = 111
E core = 88
MC = 65

I was a little surprised they had the same SP other than MC, but immediately thought maybe it’s not uncommon if they’re from the same batch or production occurs around the same time of year or something?

Anyway, I’ll report back how it performs after I carefully apply the perfect layer of Kryonaut Extreme and get it running again


----------



## motivman

FINALLY, got this stubborn TG 7200 kit stable at 8200!!!! Just getting the thing to boot at 8200 is a process in itself... sheesh


----------



## dipsdots

owikh84 said:


> Just realized that I accidentally ran an older version of HCI earlier 😅.
> HCI Memtest Pro 7.0 requires higher voltage than 6.0.
> 
> 13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
> Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2204
> Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
> Ambient: 30C
> 
> *2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.55v | TX VDDQ 1.55V | SA 1.175v | MC 1.45V*
> View attachment 2587915


How can P118/E83, MC SP84 be SP 106?


----------



## satinghostrider

dipsdots said:


> How can P118/E83, MC SP84 be SP 106?


Why not? My SP105 is P116/E83 with MC79.
P-core rating seems very consistent with higher MC rating from what I've seen.


----------



## Muut

Veii said:


> Can you guys assist a bit & give orientation point or how to work with:
> I have literally zero information on those P_DEN values
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PPD reminds me of DDR3 powerdown mode,
> But memory can be a liar - it's been some time


I set the same value for TWRPRE & TWRPDEN

My daily profile, I have set them both at 68 (see memtweakit).










For benchmarks you can set it lower (I have them at 64 in the following screenshot and in the lower 40's on M-die). Although impact on performance is yet to be proven IMO.










They are supposed to control TWR (TWRPRE - TCWL - 4 = TWR). Although TWR is not registered by Intel MC, (so leave it on auto obviously).

TPRPDEN has always been 2 (auto)
TRDPDEN between 36 - 44

Jedec spec sheet :


----------



## nickolp1974

which mems would you buy now theres a few A die kits about, i'm still going to most likely buy from the states as its the cheaper option by about £80, rip off Britain!!
Anyway been either looking at the Teamgroup 7200 or G skills 7200, is there much difference between the 2?? which one runs cooler and does any of those OC any any more than the other. Any other options around the $300 mark, this equates to around £310


----------



## Muut

nickolp1974 said:


> which mems would you buy now theres a few A die kits about, i'm still going to most likely buy from the states as its the cheaper option by about £80, rip off Britain!!
> Anyway been either looking at the Teamgroup 7200 or G skills 7200, is there much difference between the 2?? which one runs cooler and does any of those OC any any more than the other. Any other options around the $300 mark, this equates to around £310


The 2 screenshots I posted just above your post (1st is stable profile, 2nd bench profile) were both with the teamgroup 7200 if you want an overview. I run them ambiant with their HS stock and just a 140mm fan to cool them. SPD Hub temperature averages 43-45°C after 35min of Y-cruncher VST or 6h of Karhu.


----------



## nickolp1974

Muut said:


> The 2 screenshots I posted just above your post (1st is stable profile, 2nd bench profile) were both with the teamgroup 7200 if you want an overview. I run them ambiant with their HS stock and just a 140mm fan to cool them. SPD Hub temperature averages 43-45°C after 35min of Y-cruncher VST or 6h of Karhu.


thanks for the info, after just checking Gigabytes support page im not so sure G.skills 7200 is even A die


----------



## motivman

is A-die sensitive to voltage or something? Anything above 1.55v on my TG A-die and the kit becomes super unstable... I even tried raising VDDQtx and IMC VDD, but it looses stability with more voltage above 1.55v, and this is on water with super low temps....


----------



## X61

G.SKILL 2x32GB DDR5-6000 (A-die) @ 7200 1.46v


----------



## energie80

motivman said:


> is A-die sensitive to voltage or something? Anything above 1.55v on my TG A-die and the kit becomes super unstable... I even tried raising VDDQtx and IMC VDD, but it looses stability with more voltage above 1.55v, and this is on water with super low temps....


Temp sensitive


----------



## owikh84

dipsdots said:


> How can P118/E83, MC SP84 be SP 106?


SP calculation logic for 13900K, (P-core SP x 16 + E-Core SP x 8 ) / 24 = General SP.
(118*16 + 83*8)/24 = 106

Source:


sugi0lover said:


> I am not sure that SP is buggy or not, but unlike the 12th gen, I saw some of 13900K samples with all VIDs being the same .
> The first time I saw that, I thought it was buggy, now I see those 13900K with same VIDs frequently.
> So I don't think we can assume it's buggy or not by seeing the same VIDs anymore.
> 
> And I found out the SP calculation logic for 13900K, (P-core SP x 16 + E-Core SP x 8 ) / 24 = General SP.
> I tried to apply this logic to 13900K samples and the calculation has been right.


----------



## Nizzen

X61 said:


> G.SKILL 2x32GB DDR5-6000 (A-die) @ 7200 1.46v


Nice! Watercooled or air?
Is it possible to share MemTweakit and full hwinfo?
Love from Norway <3


----------



## foresttree1

Hi,

I have a Asrock Z790 RS Wifi. I am am trying to tweak my memory timing. But I cant seem to find the tRFC option. All that is available is the tRFC2 and tRFCpb option. Anyone has any idea how to find that?


----------



## X61

Nizzen said:


> Nice! Watercooled or air?
> Is it possible to share MemTweakit and full hwinfo?
> Love from Norway <3


Air-cooled. Got the motherboard yesterday, haven't played with most of the secondary/tertiary timings yet.


----------



## _AntLionBR_

owikh84 said:


> SP calculation logic for 13900K, (P-core SP x 16 + E-Core SP x 8 ) / 24 = General SP.
> (118*16 + 83*8)/24 = 106
> 
> Source:


Can i calculate this formula with my Dark Kingpin? Or only Asus cards i can know the SP?
I don't understand exactly how this calculation is done. How can i know the value of my P-Core and E-Core?


----------



## z390e

only ASUS has SP ratings currently, EVGA doesnt have that in their motherboards


----------



## faior

Hello, "new" here. So I noticed something weird about my latencies, I'm getting very slow readings compared to others with similar or even slower settings, any ideas what is going on? I know Aida isn't the most realiable software there is, but its the most comparable with others since these pictures are being shared quite frequently. I seem to be missing about 4-5ns for some reason. 

I have checked almost everything I know, voltages and operating system, even installed a new Windows 10 to a new drive, no change. I have myself come to conclusion that the cause might be in the Grizzly CPU frame? Maybe too tight since I did screw it as tight as it can get. Although I don't have any other problems with the system than there's a big wall at 7800MHz for some reason, cant get to 8000MHz with these Green SK Hynix A-Dies at all, it errors in 1 minute in every software with any settings/latencies or voltages. 7800 is fine even with reasonable timings, maybe the same reason with the frame?

13900k, 790 Apex, Green SK Hynix 2x16GB watercooled(30C max temps)


----------



## Muut

faior said:


> Hello, "new" here. So I noticed something weird about my latencies, I'm getting very slow readings compared to others with similar or even slower settings, any ideas what is going on? I know Aida isn't the most realiable software there is, but its the most comparable with others since these pictures are being shared quite frequently. I seem to be missing about 4-5ns for some reason.
> 
> I have checked almost everything I know, voltages and operating system, even installed a new Windows 10 to a new drive, no change. I have myself come to conclusion that the cause might be in the Grizzly CPU frame? Maybe too tight since I did screw it as tight as it can get. Although I don't have any other problems with the system than there's a big wall at 7800MHz for some reason, cant get to 8000MHz with these Green SK Hynix A-Dies at all, it errors in 1 minute in every software with any settings/latencies or voltages. 7800 is fine even with reasonable timings, maybe the same reason with the frame?
> 
> 13900k, 790 Apex, Green SK Hynix 2x16GB watercooled(30C max temps)
> 
> View attachment 2588151


Contact frame can mess up your signal integrity if not perfectly installed. Furthermore, it's really not necessary with Raptor lake as the IHS does not bend anymore (unlike the Apex 😏)

More seriously, what are your voltages when trying above 7800 ? and what kind of timings are you using ?


----------



## webwilli

Can anyone explain, why my RunMemtestPro is running so fast??










100% in about 3 Minutes

When I´m compare it to this screenshot: 








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Try going even further to 1.10v. I am still testing 1.15v CPU SA which might actually be stable. I might also test the lower range at some point. I think the stable range would widen with better CPU cooling or less CPU wattage but i havn't confirmed that yet.




www.overclock.net




my MB/s are much higher.

The original MemTestPro running in normal speed.
Other Versions of RunMemTest Pro does the same.
It seem, that 100% in MemTestPro are 1000% in RunMemTestPro.


----------



## Nizzen

faior said:


> Hello, "new" here. So I noticed something weird about my latencies, I'm getting very slow readings compared to others with similar or even slower settings, any ideas what is going on? I know Aida isn't the most realiable software there is, but its the most comparable with others since these pictures are being shared quite frequently. I seem to be missing about 4-5ns for some reason.
> 
> I have checked almost everything I know, voltages and operating system, even installed a new Windows 10 to a new drive, no change. I have myself come to conclusion that the cause might be in the Grizzly CPU frame? Maybe too tight since I did screw it as tight as it can get. Although I don't have any other problems with the system than there's a big wall at 7800MHz for some reason, cant get to 8000MHz with these Green SK Hynix A-Dies at all, it errors in 1 minute in every software with any settings/latencies or voltages. 7800 is fine even with reasonable timings, maybe the same reason with the frame?
> 
> 13900k, 790 Apex, Green SK Hynix 2x16GB watercooled(30C max temps)
> 
> View attachment 2588151


What voltages are you using?
show us hwinfo 
Maybe the dimms aren't up to the task too. It's actual possible. 
Use atleast 1.45v mc and auto SA, to rule out some values. 1.65v on vdd 1.63vddq.


----------



## faior

Muut said:


> Contact frame can mess up your signal integrity if not perfectly installed. Furthermore, it's really not necessary with Raptor lake as the IHS does not bend anymore (unlike the Apex 😏)


Thanks, I will check that. Thought I would ask first since its a bit of a pain to remove waterblock etc. Also one of my brand new EKWB block screw was torn in the first install(manufacturing problem) so I wouldn't want to remove them before I get new ones. 

Yeah I kinda noticed that after the frame install, I had to test it because I had very very bad contact with the EKWB and the CPU with default install, the problem was with the default cold plate, installed flat one and the contact was very good after that. 🤷‍♂️



Nizzen said:


> What voltages are you using?
> show us hwinfo
> Maybe the dimms aren't up to the task too. It's actual possible.
> Use atleast 1.45v mc and auto SA, to rule out some values. 1.65v on vdd 1.63vddq.


I have tested VCCSA 1.10 - 1.28V, no change. Same with VDD and VDDQ 1.45 - 1.68V, no change. MC is at 1.42 now, If I remember right I tried 1.45V too. 

Yeah I wouldn't be suprised if its the sticks. Wish things were as simple as when CPU's had only one core.. 😆


----------



## adolf512

X61 said:


> Air-cooled. Got the motherboard yesterday, haven't played with most of the secondary/tertiary timings yet.


Good to have confirmation that raptor lake can do 7200 stable with dual rank ram.

I got the impression that it was some temperature issue i had since lowering CPU VDDQ and SA made the ram a lot more stable but maybe the issue was something else with the motherboard (msi z790-p pro wifi).


----------



## adolf512

When i tried BLCK overclocking earlier the C17 test would often find error, i didn't run that before since y-cruncher marked it as less RAM demanding than VST, N32, FFT, HNT.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

If I'm stable at 7400 110% no doubt but not 7467 but can boot into windows up to 8000 maybe more, what do you think is the problem?


----------



## 673714

LilOliVert said:


> Once upon a time, I had an Asus Z690 Extreme and didn’t know what binning was so I got a 12900K and found out it was not great, but it was too late so I was stuck with it.
> 
> 12900K
> SP = 81
> P core = 88
> E core = 69
> MC = 42
> Thankfully it was good enough to do XMP(6400MHz) or 6600MHz while only passive cooled with stock G.Skill heat spreaders and thermal pads. The only required change for stability was CPU input voltage = 1.8
> 
> When 13th gen came out I got a 13900K as soon as I found one in stock. It was an improvement over the 12th gen for sure.
> 
> SP = 95
> P core = 105
> E core = 76
> MC = 70
> I was surprised this also wanted 1.8v CPU input voltage for stability.
> 
> After seeing so many other 13th gen owners with P cores above 110 and even some closer to 120, I decided to try 2 more.
> 
> 1st new CPU
> SP = 103
> P core = 111
> E core = 88
> MC = 76
> 
> 2nd new CPU
> SP = 103
> P core = 111
> E core = 88
> MC = 65
> 
> I was a little surprised they had the same SP other than MC, but immediately thought maybe it’s not uncommon if they’re from the same batch or production occurs around the same time of year or something?
> 
> Anyway, I’ll report back how it performs after I carefully apply the perfect layer of Kryonaut Extreme and get it running again


Finished late last night and booted up. The whole system seems smoother than it did with the first 13900K.
I haven't changed anything in the bios, it just feels faster and smoother somehow. I'm thinking it's most likely all in my head 
Rock solid so far, can't wait to get the new heat spreaders and thermal pads in a couple days


----------



## owikh84

Finally HCI 1000% stable 

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
Maximus Z690 EXTREME | BIOS 2204
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.55V | SA 1.175v | MC 1.45V*








Note that SPD Hub temp of 16c and 47.8c is a bug, actual max temp is 44c.


----------



## dipsdots

First impression is that Bios 0051 is worse for Memory OC. What I had Karhu 2600% stable on 0806 is no longer stable.


----------



## Nizzen

dipsdots said:


> First impression is that Bios 0051 is worse for Memory OC. What I had Karhu 2600% stable on 0806 is no longer stable.


 It isn't worce, it's different  It can also be it needs one more training to be stable. Maybe a powercycle too... (power off until lights are dark)


----------



## morph.

dipsdots said:


> First impression is that Bios 0051 is worse for Memory OC. What I had Karhu 2600% stable on 0806 is no longer stable.


Wouldn't even consider 2600% remotely close to stable would need at least 10,000%. I've seen 10k% karhu stable but within 1hr OCCT shows memory errors as well.


----------



## dante`afk

should implement a new rule here; aida screens are only allowed on full load windows with multiple tabs chrome running, bf2042, outlook, discord etc.


----------



## CptSpig

dipsdots said:


> First impression is that Bios 0051 is worse for Memory OC. What I had Karhu 2600% stable on 0806 is no longer stable.


I found the same thing between 0051 and 0806. Running both one on each bios with the same timings and voltages.


----------



## X61

morph. said:


> Wouldn't even consider 2600% remotely close to stable would need at least 10,000%. I've seen 10k% karhu stable but within 1hr OCCT shows memory errors as well.


Yes, 2600% Karhu is nothing. I run at least 6-7 hours of Karhu (just run it overnight). And it is better to run several different tests in order to confirm memory stability. TestMem5 is not that good even with extreme/absolut config, but I run it anyway, it catches more obvious errors but misses a lot of others. What I highly recommend also is running y-cruncher tests. Running just VST continuously is a good start and if everything is fine, then select and run tests #14-19 (FFT, N32, N64, HNT, VST, C17) continuously. 

And I'm also amazed how people at this forum continue testing CPU overclock stability with Cinebench R23 which is just a performance benchmark, not a stress test. For example, at stock frequencies (13900KF) I can run 10 minutes CB R23 at 1.130v Vcore (die-sense) without any errors, but at that voltage, my system is going to crash in a lot of other tests and applications I use in my work.


----------



## X61

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> If I'm stable at 7400 110% no doubt but not 7467 but can boot into windows up to 8000 maybe more, what do you think is the problem?


Just for the experiment, try running y-cruncher VST continuously at least for an hour. Just like that:


----------



## Carillo

X61 said:


> Yes, 2600% Karhu is nothing. I run at least 6-7 hours of Karhu (just run it overnight). And it is better to run several different tests in order to confirm memory stability. TestMem5 is not that good even with extreme/absolut config, but I run it anyway, it catches more obvious errors but misses a lot of others. What I highly recommend also is running y-cruncher tests. Running just VST continuously is a good start and if everything is fine, then select and run tests #14-19 (FFT, N32, N64, HNT, VST, C17) continuously.
> 
> And I'm also amazed how people at this forum continue testing CPU overclock stability with Cinebench R23 which is just a performance benchmark, not a stress test. For example, at stock frequencies (13900KF) I can run 10 minutes CB R23 at 1.130v Vcore (die-sense) without any errors, but at that voltage, my system is going to crash in a lot of other tests and applications I use in my work.


I’m more amazed how people criticize others testing methodology for stability. You test your computer for how it’s going to be used. If your goal is to run cb23 all day, watch porn or read the news and that’s stable, why push further with more tests ? I never run Y-cruncher…why ? Because i try to minimize degrade…It’s like buying a new car , and hammer the rpm limiter over night to see if the engine can take it.


----------



## dipsdots

morph. said:


> Wouldn't even consider 2600% remotely close to stable would need at least 10,000%. I've seen 10k% karhu stable but within 1hr OCCT shows memory errors as well.


I usually run 3400% karhu and 60 minutes tm5 anta777 extreme - if both passes, I've never had an issue in any game or application that I use.


----------



## newls1

satinghostrider said:


> You assume I'm psychologically uncomfortable just because of what you said? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Be it as it may but I'm not using my PC to run a nuclear plant. I only ensure TM5 1usmus and Kahru with more than sufficient coverage. If you want to run power viruses consistently to make yourself feel good that you have a perfectly stable system so be it. And none of this would matter to those that use their systems for gaming and content creation. Understand that stability for every user is different. If you want 1000% system stability that's your choice. It doesn't mean that having a 100% stable system would fail either. I don't understand what is so difficult to comprehend about this simple concept. All you're doing is trying to argue that a 100% stable system is not enough and that, in your opinion, it should be 1000% when in both cases for the majority of users out there makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.


Just ignore the troll, it'll go away eventually.


----------



## 673714

Edit:


----------



## adolf512

satinghostrider said:


> You assume I'm psychologically uncomfortable just because of what you said? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Be it as it may but I'm not using my PC to run a nuclear plant. I only ensure TM5 1usmus and Kahru with more than sufficient coverage. If you want to run power viruses consistently to make yourself feel good that you have a perfectly stable system so be it. And none of this would matter to those that use their systems for gaming and content creation. Understand that stability for every user is different. If you want 1000% system stability that's your choice. It doesn't mean that having a 100% stable system would fail either. I don't understand what is so difficult to comprehend about this simple concept. All you're doing is trying to argue that a 100% stable system is not enough and that, in your opinion, it should be 1000% when in both cases for the majority of users out there makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.


I do get the argument for not bothering to do like 10 hours of y-cruncher. 

From my experience y-cruncher and stressapptest (linux) are the hardest to pass. These tests however are not represantative of how people typically use their computers. It also takes way too much time.

I had a 6436 ram of fail after 10 hours, the C17 subtest (that i didn't run at first) found error.

Can rebooting make what was a stable overclock unstable? (if you have enabled memory training with each boot).


----------



## Carillo

adolf512 said:


> I do get the argument for not bothering to do like 10 hours of y-cruncher.
> 
> From my experience y-cruncher and stressapptest (linux) are the hardest to pass. These tests however are not represantative of how people typically use their computers. It also takes way too much time.
> 
> I had a 6436 ram of fail after 10 hours, the C17 subtest (that i didn't run at first) found error.
> 
> Can rebooting make what was a stable overclock unstable? (if you have enabled memory training with each boot).



Yes. Witch makes endless stress testing even more pointless.


----------



## adolf512

Is there any motherboard that isn't very expensive that can do 7200 stable in dual rank gear 2 ?

I didn't want to go with gigabyte at first due to bad experiences with my previous gigabyte board but that might be the only affordable replacement option in terms of which brand to go for for better oc results.

I will wait for the next bios update for my msi board, might be a software issue (probably not unfortumately).


----------



## energie80

unify x?


----------



## pipes

energie80 said:


> unify x?


I inquired because I was interested in that card but it seems that it is not produced on the z790 chipset

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## adolf512

energie80
[QUOTE="energie80 said:


> unify x?


I have considered it, it's not z790 unfortunately amd i have not seen anyone try to do 7200 dual rank with it (raptor lake) it's only officially rated at 6400 (dual rank) last time i checked.


----------



## energie80

adolf512 said:


> I have considered it, it's not z790 unfortunately amd i have not seen anyone try to do 7200 dual rank with it (raptor lake) it's only officially rated at 6400 (dual rank) last time i checked.


running 7600 without problems


----------



## the_patchelor

Dual Rank DDR5? 2x 32GB?
haven't seen faster than 7000MT/s (oc) yet.


----------



## energie80

2x16 teamgroup 7600


----------



## adolf512

the_patchelor said:


> Dual Rank DDR5? 2x 32GB?
> haven't seen faster than 7000MT/s (oc) yet.











*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


Can you guys assist a bit & give orientation point or how to work with: I have literally zero information on those P_DEN values PPD reminds me of DDR3 powerdown mode, But memory can be a liar - it's been some time I set the same value for TWRPRE & TWRPDEN My daily profile, I have set them...




www.overclock.net





That was with a very expensive motherboard though.


----------



## X61

the_patchelor said:


> Dual Rank DDR5? 2x 32GB?
> haven't seen faster than 7000MT/s (oc) yet.


at 7800MT/s my 2x32GB kit might corresponds to the perception of "stability" of most of the people here, so I don't see why not posting also this one


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alrighty then. Now that's over.

I can run my ram up to 8000 maybe more never tested and boot into windows but I start failing tm5 anything over 7400. I've tried raising and lowering voltages everywhere and timings as well. Is there a way to pin point what the issue is? I have two little strong fans blowing on the memory I should mention.


----------



## Nizzen

X61 said:


> at 7800MT/s my 2x32GB kit might corresponds to the perception of "stability" of most of the people here, so I don't see why not posting also this one


Compare 2x16 VS 2x32 in a game benchmark?
DualRank VS SingleRank.

Wonder if dualrank is as good as ddr4 DR vs SR ?


----------



## tubs2x4

Carillo said:


> I’m more amazed how people criticize others testing methodology for stability. You test your computer for how it’s going to be used. If your goal is to run cb23 all day, watch porn or read the news and that’s stable, why push further with more tests ? I never run Y-cruncher…why ? Because i try to minimize degrade…It’s like buying a new car , and hammer the rpm limiter over night to see if the engine can take it.


Actually loading an eng to 100% for a period to break it in using a dyno works. Do it for agri diesels anyway


----------



## Agent-A01

Nizzen said:


> Compare 2x16 VS 2x32 in a game benchmark?


Give him 24 hours of continuous 300W load stress testing first so that he knows it's stable


----------



## drwolf

Is there any "budget" ATX boards that will do tuned 7400MHz with A-die? I got this A-die KIT, (F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K - 820A)
Seems like MSI MPG Z790I Edge WiFi is a decent choice, but its ITX and I'm not sure if Liquid Freezer II will fit.


----------



## carbuff69

@drwolf I bought this exact board last week and have been testing with it. I have a 2x16GB G.Skill DDR5-6000 running (M-die) running stable at 6933, it was almost stable at 7200 but got 1 fail after a few hours of testing. For real life use, it would probably be just fine (the DIMMs were heat soaked at time of fail) as I am not a gamer or planing to do anything nearly that intense on this system.

These same DIMMs were not stable on an ASUS Z690 Aorus Ultra board at 6600. This MSI board is way better in my limited experience so far.


----------



## SoldierRBT

X61 said:


> Yes, 2600% Karhu is nothing. I run at least 6-7 hours of Karhu (just run it overnight). And it is better to run several different tests in order to confirm memory stability. TestMem5 is not that good even with extreme/absolut config, but I run it anyway, it catches more obvious errors but misses a lot of others. What I highly recommend also is running y-cruncher tests. Running just VST continuously is a good start and if everything is fine, then select and run tests #14-19 (FFT, N32, N64, HNT, VST, C17) continuously.
> 
> And I'm also amazed how people at this forum continue testing CPU overclock stability with Cinebench R23 which is just a performance benchmark, not a stress test. For example, at stock frequencies (13900KF) I can run 10 minutes CB R23 at 1.130v Vcore (die-sense) without any errors, but at that voltage, my system is going to crash in a lot of other tests and applications I use in my work.


I do agree that CB R23 30min isn't a stability test and games like Apex Legends can eventually crash with low vcore. I'd advise to not run Y-cruncher SFT or LinX at high frequencies, it can definitely degrade your cpu with the amount of current it pulls.

What I like to do is find the proper values/voltages to be stable every time I load a profile. Sometimes I find some values that passes every stress test but fails after I load the same profile. Keep in mind temps are also important. You may be stable now but in 6 months that same profile fails because thermal paste degrade or your cpu block has particles or fans have dust. 

At the end of the day it depends on what people consider stable. If they want to play certain games and it's stable enough that's fine.

I do test my OC with YC all stresstest enable for 45min-1hour. 8266C34 with tight timings passes every test but my IMC struggles with 8400 on N32 and N64.


----------



## chibi

New Fury Renegade 7200 kit just arrived. No RGB and was the best priced kit available to me for these speeds. Will be happy to get 8k out of them.
CPU is batch # X246H989


----------



## 673714

Edit:


----------



## z390e

Agent-A01 said:


> Give him 24 hours of continuous 300W load stress testing first so that he knows it's stable


300w? #1 2.5b y-cruncher for RPL (not my submission, credit to Xtreme Addict) is 550w right now. Try and run that for 10 hours straight and let us know if your CPU degraded.


----------



## soroush_co

newls1 said:


> WHat is about average OC I can typically get from this set of A Die G.Skills...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5-7200 PC5-57600 CL34 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK - - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 DRAM memory is the ideal choice to build a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THink something like 7400-7600 @ CL34 is obtainable? And bigger question is do you think i might notice a difference in gaming coming from 7000 CL32 ? My local MC has them in stock but only 1 set. Should I reserve them or wait for the 7600mhz set?


guys i just got this kit but i cant stabale it on 4 dimm, could you please help me out?








OC 4dim 2xdual 16gb DDR5 7200


I try to OC 4xDDR5 with inel xmp to 7200 but itshas boot loop, after bios update its working with 2x but dosnt work with 4 of them, any idea how ican solve it? i try to increase voltage to 1.42 also change the PMIC voltage to by pre PMIC but has no defrence, I'm not expret so i didnt try...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Shkiz0

soroush_co said:


> guys i just got this kit but i cant stabale it on 4 dimm, could you please help me out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OC 4dim 2xdual 16gb DDR5 7200
> 
> 
> I try to OC 4xDDR5 with inel xmp to 7200 but itshas boot loop, after bios update its working with 2x but dosnt work with 4 of them, any idea how ican solve it? i try to increase voltage to 1.42 also change the PMIC voltage to by pre PMIC but has no defrence, I'm not expret so i didnt try...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


What are your current settings? 


CPU System Agent Voltage
DRAM VDD Voltage
DRAM VDDQ Voltage
IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage
Memory Controller Voltage


----------



## Fordinz

Hey guys, has anyone checked this motherboard out?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004861914277.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.293d4f3dBY4dO0&algo_pvid=9636577e-0733-457f-bb6b-25114d933ddb&algo_exp_id=9636577e-0733-457f-bb6b-25114d933ddb-42&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000030788453553"}&[email protected][email protected]!12000030788453553!sea&curPageLogUid=i3qhjklgPSHj

It's a cheap itx z690 board with an advertised 10-layer PCB. Any thoughts on it maybe being able to clock a-die above 7000?


----------



## Nizzen

Fordinz said:


> Hey guys, has anyone checked this motherboard out?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004861914277.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.293d4f3dBY4dO0&algo_pvid=9636577e-0733-457f-bb6b-25114d933ddb&algo_exp_id=9636577e-0733-457f-bb6b-25114d933ddb-42&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000030788453553"}&[email protected][email protected]!12000030788453553!sea&curPageLogUid=i3qhjklgPSHj
> 
> It's a cheap itx z690 board with an advertized 10 layer PCB. Any thoughts on it maybe being able to clock a-die above 7000?


Bios support is everything, so..... I have no faith what so ever....


----------



## soroush_co

Shkiz0 said:


> What are your current settings?
> 
> 
> CPU System Agent Voltage
> DRAM VDD Voltage
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage
> IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage
> Memory Controller Voltage



thank you for the respond here is the voltage,

CPU System Agent Voltage 0.801v
CPU core voltage 1.350v
DRAM VDD Voltage 1.4v
DRAM VDDQ Voltage 1.4
IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage - auto (have no idea)
Memory Controller Voltage - auto 1.101v


----------



## Shkiz0

soroush_co said:


> thank you for the respond here is the voltage,
> 
> CPU System Agent Voltage 0.801v
> CPU core voltage 1.350v
> DRAM VDD Voltage 1.4v
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage 1.4
> IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage - auto (have no idea)
> Memory Controller Voltage - auto 1.101v


Try this all manual:

CPU System Agent Voltage 1.130v
DRAM VDD Voltage 1.4v
DRAM VDDQ Voltage 1.4v
IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage - 1.3 (have no idea)
Memory Controller Voltage - auto 1.2V


----------



## soroush_co

Shkiz0 said:


> Try this all manual:
> 
> CPU System Agent Voltage 1.130v
> DRAM VDD Voltage 1.4v
> DRAM VDDQ Voltage 1.4v
> IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage - 1.3 (have no idea)
> Memory Controller Voltage - auto 1.2V


Still failing, yesterday i adjust dram VDD and VDDQ voltage to 1.42 or 1.41 couple time windows boot up but its crashed


----------



## Minciu

Fordinz said:


> Hey guys, has anyone checked this motherboard out?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004861914277.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.293d4f3dBY4dO0&algo_pvid=9636577e-0733-457f-bb6b-25114d933ddb&algo_exp_id=9636577e-0733-457f-bb6b-25114d933ddb-42&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000030788453553"}&[email protected][email protected]!12000030788453553!sea&curPageLogUid=i3qhjklgPSHj
> 
> It's a cheap itx z690 board with an advertised 10-layer PCB. Any thoughts on it maybe being able to clock a-die above 7000?


MSI z790i cost *100usd* more, beter go this way and You Can do 8000 on Adie. Easy


----------



## Shkiz0

soroush_co said:


> Still failing, yesterday i adjust dram VDD and VDDQ voltage to 1.42 or 1.41 couple time windows boot up but its crashed


Try it, but I don't think it's necessary for such a basic clock speed.



Memory Controller Voltage - 1.35V

#edit:
Bios version number?


----------



## adolf512

I got the impression that y-cruncher is more likely to find error if you increase the time each test runs to 10 minutes









I did stop the test at the beginning of iteration 4 (no error was found)

6384 MT/s (dual rank)


----------



## adolf512

Still waiting to see if any board below 400$ can do 7200 dual rank. 

the gigabyte z790 ud uc and z790 ud ax are interesting options but i am not going to gamble on a motherboard again.


----------



## soroush_co

Shkiz0 said:


> Try it, but I don't think it's necessary for such a basic clock speed.
> 
> 
> 
> Memory Controller Voltage - 1.35V
> 
> #edit:
> Bios version number?


same fault, as my understand intel xmp dosent like 4 sticks of ram

bios version: 0703 x64
me fw version: 16.1.25.2020


----------



## Veii

With the afraidness to make myself enemies, it has some added comedic value here on OCN, reading emotional debates

~ Chip degradation is inevitable, from the day you plug it in
~ Chip degradation takes on average 5-15 years.
~ Neither overclocker nor prosumer, should have the audacity to question employed engineers substrate design job.
~ Modern architecture acklowedges that and comes build in with mitigation modules against non-preventable degradation & is done on-boot.
~ Thermal Equilibrium exists and discharge needs to be tested for at bare minimum 1+ hour. Be it VRM design (loadline), memory stability, cache behavior


Spoiler



TM5 is a CRC based test at low IPC load, SSE
OCCT is a memory intensive linpack oriented test, for cache stability on increased by thermals higher discharge factor
Y-cruncher is a CPU & cache focused test, with aberrations of linpack to compute and CRC verify about the same work as above two tests, with different loadtype points.
^ those are so called stability stresstests with single focused purpose
The "stability" part comes for sustaining by engineers designed workload offsets at X temperature. Stability testing discharge factor by thermals.

You loop memory tests, to increase the error hitrate and combat internal CRC
You loop CPU workloads, to verify user (the overclocker) knows how to work with voltages, because in all certainty their knowledge will be less than the substrate design team

To shape the perspective in the recent car analogy,
Driving / using the car, does not build the car, nor design it.
If you mess with the car (firmware modify), you have to at bare minimum acknowledge your lack of knowledge and take it to a testing center.
Or risk your own life and test it to the points you are comfortable with. (Drag race)

Petting it, will keep your ego up
- but lying to yourself is somewhat a sign of refusing to accept your lack of knowledge.

Sadly, while for cars there is some sort of expertise-baseline, in for example sold tires have to behave. Tested in a labor manner
For silicon, you have to decide yourself how stable you want it to be. There is no pay-to-win package here.


Instability *≠* Degradation


----------



## morph.

soroush_co said:


> same fault, as my understand intel xmp dosent like 4 sticks of ram
> 
> bios version: 0703 x64
> me fw version: 16.1.25.2020


XMP is "tuned" for 2 sticks NO xmp is made for 4 sticks ddr5.


----------



## soroush_co

Veii said:


> With the afraidness to make myself enemies, it has some added comedic value here on OCN, reading emotional debates
> 
> ~ Chip degradation is inevitable, from the day you plug it in
> ~ Chip degradation takes on average 5-15 years.
> ~ Neither overclocker nor prosumer, should have the audacity to question employed engineers substrate design job.
> ~ Modern architecture acklowedges that and comes build in with mitigation modules against non-preventable degradation & is done on-boot.
> ~ Thermal Equilibrium exists and discharge needs to be tested for at bare minimum 1+ hour. Be it VRM design (loadline), memory stability, cache behavior
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> TM5 is a CRC based test at low IPC load, SSE
> OCCT is a memory intensive linpack oriented test, for cache stability on increased by thermals higher discharge factor
> Y-cruncher is a CPU & cache focused test, with aberrations of linpack to compute and CRC verify about the same work as above two tests, with different loadtype points.
> ^ those are so called stability stresstests with single focused purpose
> The "stability" part comes for sustaining by engineers designed workload offsets at X temperature. Stability testing discharge factor by thermals.
> 
> You loop memory tests, to increase the error hitrate and combat internal CRC
> You loop CPU workloads, to verify user (the overclocker) knows how to work with voltages, because in all certainty their knowledge will be less than the substrate design team
> 
> To shape the perspective in the recent car analogy,
> Driving / using the car, does not build the car, nor design it.
> If you mess with the car (firmware modify), you have to at bare minimum acknowledge your lack of knowledge and take it to a testing center.
> Or risk your own life and test it to the points you are comfortable with. (Drag race)
> 
> Petting it, will keep your ego up
> - but lying to yourself is somewhat a sign of refusing to accept your lack of knowledge.
> 
> Sadly, while for cars there is some sort of expertise-baseline, in for example sold tires have to behave. Tested in a labor manner
> For silicon, you have to decide yourself how stable you want it to be. There is no pay-to-win package here.
> 
> 
> Instability *≠* Degradation


I didnt understand who you are talking about,
if your targeting me i have zero knowladge on oc my previouse pc build was about 16 years ago, mainboard msi k8n sli platinium single core amd with socket 939 oc up 2100mhz single core water cooled, now i just bought the 4 sticks of ram i like run them as spech verified by intel xmp 3.0,


----------



## soroush_co

morph. said:


> XMP is "tuned" for 2 sticks NO xmp is made for 4 sticks ddr5.


 i wish i know it before hand, and now i thinking about change ram to 128gb 4800mhz or 2 stick 64gb highst clock speed as i can find, any suggestion are welcome


----------



## Veii

soroush_co said:


> if your targeting me


Last 4-5 pages
For 3+ pages

I don't target anybody
it only seems there is a misconception on the meaning of "test duration"
and another one on degradation or "hammering the CPU"
Power viruses do not kill CPUs, the users do


----------



## soroush_co

Veii said:


> Last 4-5 pages
> For 3+ pages
> 
> I don't target anybody
> it only seems there is a misconception on the meaning of "test duration"
> and another one on degradation or "hammering the CPU"
> Power viruses do not kill CPUs, the users do


agreed until safe mode is off and temp reach 120 degree,

question is it the high voltage kill the ram or cpu or safemode cover this one too?


----------



## energie80

I’m looking for advices (again) to make this better, any help? Really would go lower then 50 ns


----------



## Veii

soroush_co said:


> agreed until safe mode is off and temp reach 120 degree,
> 
> question is it the high voltage kill the ram or cpu or safemode cover this one too?


Usually on OC_Mode , there should be active protection - but i'm not an Intel user to answer that semi-confidently.
AMD users for example, our prevention module remains active in OC mode, and does package throttle.
Soo even if i pushed 1.72v before (and did speed up degradation)
The sample still works normal under its normal boosting conditions, only specific loaded cores need tad more voltage now ~ expected 

High Amperage, plus high thermals speed up degradation
But in general sense, there are at minimum 4-5 protections active against that
And IF you do speed it up, you won't notice ~ as on the next reboot it will be mitigated and accounted for (SP rating by VID req)

With the same perspective, it shouldn't be expected that every chip is identical.
You only limit your peak possibility of substrates performance by time.
The afraidness to even test and stabilize it, only leaves free performance on the table
Just then again, the "time" part will ruin your overclock at any point. And this part is simply non preventable.

If you test the stability & fix your flaws, or let time create "in-the-face" bluescreens and crashes
Is about the same outcome 
First one has potential to improve user error, 2nd is just lying to yourself till reality hits you~


----------



## skullbringer

7800c34 daily stable OC on Z790 Hero, this time with Oloy Mpower 6800 (not Mpoewr)

Karhu 4000% + TM5 [email protected] + 5+ loops of ycruncher VST. none of that hci low-priority 100% funny-business!










120 mm fan on the modules at ~ 800 rpm 

sadly no 3rd party kits have matched my sk hynix oem greensticks so far. quite the contrary actually, the looser bin you get, the more you can oc fme so far. 🤔


----------



## tibcsi0407

skullbringer said:


> 7800c34 daily stable OC on Z790 Hero, this time with Oloy Mpower 6800 (not Mpoewr)
> 
> Karhu 4000% + TM5 [email protected] + 5+ loops of ycruncher VST. none of that hci low-priority 100% funny-business!
> 
> View attachment 2588469
> 
> 
> 120 mm fan on the modules at ~ 800 rpm
> 
> sadly no 3rd party kits have matched my sk hynix oem greensticks so far. quite the contrary actually, the looser bin you get, the more you can oc fme so far. 🤔


Very nice! Are you sure that you need such a high TX voltage?


----------



## skullbringer

tibcsi0407 said:


> Very nice! Are you sure that you need such a high TX voltage?


hero and extreme behave completely differently to apex in that regard. don't know why

apex: high mc, low vddq tx
hero/extreme: sweetspot mc, high vddq tx


----------



## tibcsi0407

skullbringer said:


> hero and extreme behave completely differently to apex in that regard. don't know why
> 
> apex: high mc, low vddq tx
> hero/extreme: sweetspot mc, high vddq tx


I have hero too, but I wouldn't raise the TX above 1.45V. I am at 7600 right now, next step is 7800.


----------



## skullbringer

tibcsi0407 said:


> I have hero too, but I wouldn't raise the TX above 1.45V. I am at 7600 right now, next step is 7800.


fair enough, I just left it on auto as it was stable this way. still gotta minimize tx and sa.

apex already limits tx to 1.4 on auto, but for some reason hero/extreme do not 🤔


----------



## tibcsi0407

skullbringer said:


> fair enough, I just left it on auto as it was stable this way. still gotta minimize tx and sa.
> 
> apex already limits tx to 1.4 on auto, but for some reason hero/extreme do not 🤔


Their BIOS is better I believe. Anyway, we can't complain, because it is possible to reach 7800-8000 on a 4 dimm board. I would be happy with 8000 actually.
Just replaced my contact frame with the original ILM and my computer is more stable. I got -0.03V for stability in CB, and it trains much faster, so I will move to higher memory speeds too.


----------



## energie80

Worse signal require higher voltage


----------



## affxct

skullbringer said:


> 7800c34 daily stable OC on Z790 Hero, this time with Oloy Mpower 6800 (not Mpoewr)
> 
> Karhu 4000% + TM5 [email protected] + 5+ loops of ycruncher VST. none of that hci low-priority 100% funny-business!
> 
> View attachment 2588469
> 
> 
> 120 mm fan on the modules at ~ 800 rpm
> 
> sadly no 3rd party kits have matched my sk hynix oem greensticks so far. quite the contrary actually, the looser bin you get, the more you can oc fme so far. 🤔


HCI 100% low priority weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

In all seriousness, my builds always crash in gaming at high FPS when I have a slightly unstable anything. By this point TM5 ABSOLUT is the only way :/. It seems to find errors that HCI (full priority) and Karhu cannot. It’s just so damn difficult to pass.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> HCI 100% low priority weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> 
> In all seriousness, my builds always crash in gaming at high FPS when I have a slightly unstable anything. By this point TM5 ABSOLUT is the only way :/. It seems to find errors that HCI (full priority) and Karhu cannot. It’s just so damn difficult to pass.


I believe AIDA 4 checkmark test (Cache, CPU, FPU, RAM) is enough to run 1 hour to find any instability in the system. If it's stable there it will be stable anywhere in my experience.


----------



## skullbringer

tibcsi0407 said:


> Their BIOS is better I believe. Anyway, we can't complain, because it is possible to reach 7800-8000 on a 4 dimm board. I would be happy with 8000 actually.
> Just replaced my contact frame with the original ILM and my computer is more stable. I got -0.03V for stability in CB, and it trains much faster, so I will move to higher memory speeds too.


actually already running tx 1.4 atm and it's still stable, so either that changed with a recent bios release or I was just lazy, cant remember. 
still tweaking this oc, thanks to kind feedback from people like you 

and yeah, 8000 stable on a 4-dimmer would be amazing! I think mpoewr could do it, because my still working dimm does 8280 stable single-channel. sadly the other dimm has 3 missing contacts 
have yet to get my hands on another kit that is binned this tightly.



affxct said:


> HCI 100% low priority weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> 
> In all seriousness, my builds always crash in gaming at high FPS when I have a slightly unstable anything. By this point TM5 ABSOLUT is the only way :/. It seems to find errors that HCI (full priority) and Karhu cannot. It’s just so damn difficult to pass.


at this point I always run 5 loops of y-cruncher VST first for rough checking, then 4000% of karhu for fine checking and tm5 extreme1 to find too low tREFI which karhu can't for whatever reason. absolut is also nice, but not as good as extreme1 for testing passively cooled setups fme


----------



## tibcsi0407

skullbringer said:


> actually already running tx 1.4 atm and it's still stable, so either that changed with a recent bios release or I was just lazy, cant remember.
> still tweaking this oc, thanks to kind feedback from people like you
> 
> and yeah, 8000 stable on a 4-dimmer would be amazing! I think mpoewr could do it, because my still working dimm does 8280 stable single-channel. sadly the other dimm has 3 missing contacts
> have yet to get my hands on another kit that is binned this tightly.
> 
> 
> 
> at this point I always run 5 loops of y-cruncher VST first for rough checking, then 4000% of karhu for fine checking and tm5 extreme1 to find too low tREFI which karhu can't for whatever reason. absolut is also nice, but not as good as extreme1 for testing passively cooled setups fme


The ASUS dev in the Maximus topic posted a 8000 result on Hero with tight timings. I have those timings on 7600.


----------



## affxct

skullbringer said:


> actually already running tx 1.4 atm and it's still stable, so either that changed with a recent bios release or I was just lazy, cant remember.
> still tweaking this oc, thanks to kind feedback from people like you
> 
> and yeah, 8000 stable on a 4-dimmer would be amazing! I think mpoewr could do it, because my still working dimm does 8280 stable single-channel. sadly the other dimm has 3 missing contacts
> have yet to get my hands on another kit that is binned this tightly.
> 
> 
> 
> at this point I always run 5 loops of y-cruncher VST first for rough checking, then 4000% of karhu for fine checking and tm5 extreme1 to find too low tREFI which karhu can't for whatever reason. absolut is also nice, but not as good as extreme1 for testing passively cooled setups fme


Actually? I used to use Extreme1 but it wouldn’t find errors that HCI finds, and ABSOLUT finds errors that HCI can’t find. By this point I don’t even know anymore lmao.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> Actually? I used to use Extreme1 but it wouldn’t find errors that HCI finds, and ABSOLUT finds errors that HCI can’t find. By this point I don’t even know anymore lmao.


It really depends on your CPU OC too. If the test is only RAM stress it won't stress the cache enough. On AIDA I always need some more voltage where the Usmus V3 is stable.


----------



## skullbringer

tibcsi0407 said:


> The ASUS dev in the Maximus topic posted a 8000 result on Hero with tight timings. I have those timings on 7600.


how stable? 
I can also pass some stability tests on 8000 but eg not ycruncher VST


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> It really depends on your CPU OC too. If the test is only RAM stress it won't stress the cache enough. On AIDA I always need some more voltage where the Usmus V3 is stable.


My CPU isn’t OC’d because I can’t cool more than 1.17Vmin in AVX loads with my 420 AIO. It’s at 1.17Vmin for 53/42/46 (stock clocks) and it’s pretty stable. It also doesn’t get particularly warm for obvious reasons.


----------



## Veii

skullbringer said:


> this time with Oloy Mpower 6800 (not Mpoewr)


Yes MPower or no MPOWER 
M-POWER6832AW16 ? *🤭*

Or the 6800 Silver (LE) edition, that has no MPOWER brand ?
Well done


----------



## skullbringer

Veii said:


> Yes MPower or no MPOWER
> M-POWER6832AW16 ? *🤭*
> 
> Or the 6800 Silver (LE) edition, that has no MPOWER brand ?
> Well done


M-POWER68*38*AW16


----------



## z390e

affxct said:


> My CPU isn’t OC’d because I can’t cool more than 1.17Vmin in AVX loads with my 420 AIO.


as someone who has the same cooler this is inconsistent with my findings on ADL, and a bit concerning

I am able to keep up to around ~1.3v within reason. This is with AVX offset though. Is RPL generating a significant amount more thermals? I was under the impression RPL had better thermal handling.


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> as someone who has the same cooler this is inconsistent with my findings on ADL, and a bit concerning
> 
> I am able to keep up to around ~1.3v within reason. This is with AVX offset though. Is RPL generating a significant amount more thermals? I was under the impression RPL had better thermal handling.


1.17Vmin results in around 80c in R23. My paste application is fine, and my idle temps are fine. I don't have an aircon though so that's a factor.


----------



## z390e

shot you a dm @affxct so I dont derail the thread


----------



## don1376

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> How will you remove the memory heatsinks? Acetone or heat gun?


I prefer acetone, no prying, so easier not to damage. But in bowl, cover with acetone, put lid on to reduce smell. Let sit for 10 to 15 mins. Lift each stick out of bowl and lightly lift each heatspreader off. Should almost fall off. Can also use a decent figure nail polish remove which is mainly acetone. The acetone didn't smudge, fade or even cause the factory sticker to want to peel off. I did mine about 3 weeks ago. And if need be I can easily reinstall it.


----------



## motivman

Team Group 6400 CL40 @ 7600 CL36 stable.... still need to tighten the timings. Why do I need A-die again? LOL


----------



## affxct

motivman said:


> Team Group 6400 CL40 @ 7600 CL36 stable.... still need to tighten the timings. Why do I need A-die again? LOL
> 
> View attachment 2588560


That’s crazy. Well done.


----------



## asdkj1740

nickolp1974 said:


> thanks for the info, after just checking Gigabytes support page im not so sure G.skills 7200 is even A die
> 
> View attachment 2588067


if gskill dares to release 7200mhz m die kit, i think that kit would comes with active cooling out of the box.
so the gskill 7200 kit you can buy right now, is 99.9% a die.


----------



## asdkj1740

motivman said:


> Team Group 6400 CL40 @ 7600 CL36 stable.... still need to tighten the timings. Why do I need A-die again? LOL
> 
> View attachment 2588560


m...die...?


----------



## motivman

asdkj1740 said:


> m...die...?


yup


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> m...die...?


1.65V/1.65V with a good IMC, Z790 Apex and clearly a lot of skill. It can be done. It’s good to see tbh.


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing 4 slot motherboard stable 8000 cl34 oc by Doojin
*VDD 1.46v / VDDQ 1.45v / Tx 1.4v / Mc 1.35v / SA 1.15v*


Spoiler: Asus Z790 Extreme 8000 CL34 OC setup


----------



## drnilly007

Whats the best kit to buy right now? $200-250 range 2x16 hoping for at least mid 6000s low cas

Pairing with Evga classy 4 ram slot board and 13600k?


----------



## CptSpig

sugi0lover said:


> sharing 4 slot motherboard stable 8000 cl34 oc by Doojin
> *VDD 1.46v / VDDQ 1.45v / Tx 1.4v / Mc 1.35v / SA 1.15v*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Asus Z790 Extreme 8000 CL34 OC setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2588587


Green Sticks! Awesome.


----------



## asdkj1740

affxct said:


> 1.65V/1.65V with a good IMC, Z790 Apex and clearly a lot of skill. It can be done. It’s good to see tbh.


i was thinking maybe even teamgroup is starting to replace those m die kit with a die just like what gskill has been doing lately.
because the trfc is not as tight as we would normally see on m die.


----------



## motivman

asdkj1740 said:


> i was thinking maybe even teamgroup is starting to replace those m die kit with a die just like what gskill has been doing lately.
> because the trfc is not as tight as we would normally see on m die.


My kit is definitely M-die, I have had it since first half of this year. You can even see the manufacture date in the cpu-z screenshot (03/22)...


----------



## Nizzen

motivman said:


> Team Group 6400 CL40 @ 7600 CL36 stable.... still need to tighten the timings. Why do I need A-die again? LOL
> 
> View attachment 2588560


You need low trfc to get the m-die performance. Try 320-340


----------



## bhav

Nizzen said:


> You need low trfc to get the m-die performance. Try 320-340


Something I would like to know, in comparison to M die trfc, how low does it go on A die?


----------



## motivman

M-die Power!!!! This is how tight I could get this kit, very impressed. I literally maxed out the trefi! 7800 was a no go. tried up to 1.7v, no dice. This is getting the same latency as my Gskill A-die at 8200 C36. I think I am returning both my A-die kits and keeping my M-die for a little longer. I will revisit A-die when I can get a 8000 kit for less than $250, which shouldn't be too long. All in all, Z790 Apex is a BEAST of a board... on my Z690 Unify-x with the EXACT same processor, The best I could get stable on this kit was 7000 C34, now I am doing 7600 C32, lol. Btw, for anyone that is wondering, my MC SP is between 80-82 whenever I check it.


----------



## motivman

bhav said:


> Something I would like to know, in comparison to M die trfc, how low does it go on A die?


mid to low 400's


----------



## motivman

Nizzen said:


> You need low trfc to get the m-die performance. Try 320-340


I was just testing the waters with this overclock to see if I could pass 7600 with loose timings, if that passes, then I start tightening timings, haha.


----------



## bhav

motivman said:


> mid to low 400's


Thats actually not at all bad still, nothing as bad as it was between samsung B die and anything else for DDR4.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> i was thinking maybe even teamgroup is starting to replace those m die kit with a die just like what gskill has been doing lately.
> because the trfc is not as tight as we would normally see on m die.


That is true. 1.65 would be a lot though for 7600.


----------



## adolf512

motivman said:


> All in all, Z790 Apex is a BEAST of a board... on my Z690 Unify-x with the EXACT same processor, The best I could get stable on this kit was 7000 C34, now I am doing 7600 C32, lol. Btw, for anyone that is wondering, my MC SP is between 80-82 whenever I check it.
> 
> View attachment 2588609


good to know the msi z690 Unify-X isn't ideal for ram overclocking.


----------



## OC2000

Ive got both the TG 7200 CL34 and G Skill 8000 kits, both will do exactly the same. I'm clearly limited by my CPUs IMC (MC SP 72) unless someone can suggest anything to help.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

OC2000 said:


> Ive got both the TG 7200 CL34 and G Skill 8000 kits, both will do exactly the same. I'm clearly limited by my CPUs IMC (MC SP 72) unless someone can suggest anything to help.



I can boot 8000 but only 7400 is stable. Same boat. I've asked two or three times now and no responses.


----------



## adolf512

OC2000 said:


> Ive got both the TG 7200 CL34 and G Skill 8000 kits, both will do exactly the same. I'm clearly limited by my CPUs IMC (MC SP 72) unless someone can suggest anything to help.


If you are IMC limited you could try tweaking voltages. 

Btw: testmem5 isn't that hard of a stresstest in terms of the imc. 






DDR5 overclocking (nightmare)


While CPU and GPU overclocking is relatively straightforward DDR5 overcloking can be an utter nightmare. As you increase the DRAM frequency you will become increasingly likely to run into some stability issue. These stability issues can be very difficult to find in stability testing so you...



vintologi.com





Better CPU cooling might make the imc stable at higher frequencies. Higher voltage also isn't always better. There can be a small window of stability.


----------



## motivman

adolf512 said:


> If you are IMC limited you could try tweaking voltages.
> 
> Btw: testmem5 isn't that hard of a stresstest in terms of the imc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5 overclocking (nightmare)
> 
> 
> While CPU and GPU overclocking is relatively straightforward DDR5 overcloking can be an utter nightmare. As you increase the DRAM frequency you will become increasingly likely to run into some stability issue. These stability issues can be very difficult to find in stability testing so you...
> 
> 
> 
> vintologi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better CPU cooling might make the imc stable at higher frequencies. Higher voltage also isn't always better. There can be a small window of stability.


A-die doesn't like higher voltages AT ALL. Anything over 1.55V for me with A-die and the memory starts acting possessed, and this is on water. Also, I do not think a lot of 13900K's can do more than 8200 TBH, both my A-die kits top out at 8200 also.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> 1.65V/1.65V with a good IMC, Z790 Apex and clearly a lot of skill. It can be done. It’s good to see tbh.


Have you tried the new KINGPIN BIOS with your M-Die kit? I seen someone talking about it in the last couple pages, apparently pushing 7400+ on M-Die. I'm curious as I'm about to pull the trigger on a Z690 KINGPIN since I can't find a Z790 APEX anywhere.



adolf512 said:


> good to know the msi z690 Unify-X isn't ideal for ram overclocking.


Not for A-Die or pushing 7800+, no. It handles up to ~7600 fairly well with A-Die, and ~7000 with M-Die with some effort. If you have a weak IMC, the Unify-X will exacerbate that issue since it's extremely voltage sensitive and the board itself does not like signal voltages pumped up; doesn't react well to high voltages the way other boards seem to.


----------



## WebsterRKL

adolf512 said:


> If you are IMC limited you could try tweaking voltages.
> 
> Btw: testmem5 isn't that hard of a stresstest in terms of the imc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5 overclocking (nightmare)
> 
> 
> While CPU and GPU overclocking is relatively straightforward DDR5 overcloking can be an utter nightmare. As you increase the DRAM frequency you will become increasingly likely to run into some stability issue. These stability issues can be very difficult to find in stability testing so you...
> 
> 
> 
> vintologi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better CPU cooling might make the imc stable at higher frequencies. Higher voltage also isn't always better. There can be a small window of stability.


Are you saying running the CPU stock can lead to increased stability and higher DDR5 frequencies?

I apologize for the nooby question, but I'm running a 13600K stock no OC (beyond XMP) since it's only a workstation water-cooled typewriter build and getting the Gskill 7600 kit stable no errors TM5 at 8000 36 46 46 121, 1.500v both VDD and QVDD, and I'm a god-awful terribly dysfunctional overclocker. 

Reason for no CPU OC with my daily is it adds very little improvement in responsiveness for my work apps, whereas the DDR5 8000/36 adds a huge boost for my work apps, and with the water-loop the 13600K runs super-cold.


----------



## OC2000

motivman said:


> A-die doesn't like higher voltages AT ALL. Anything over 1.55V for me with A-die and the memory starts acting possessed, and this is on water. Also, I do not think a lot of 13900K's can do more than 8200 TBH, both my A-die kits top out at 8200 also.


Im going to remove the contact frame and see if that helps


----------



## centvalny

acoustic said:


> Have you tried the new KINGPIN BIOS with your M-Die kit? I seen someone talking about it in the last couple pages, apparently pushing 7400+ on M-Die. I'm curious as I'm about to pull the trigger on a Z690 KINGPIN since I can't find a Z790 APEX anywhere.











ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5


ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5




www.centralcomputer.com




1 left in santa clara store


----------



## WebsterRKL

@acoustic 

Z790 Apex was listed to be back in stock on Dec 14th - today at Newegg! But Newegg keeps changing their availability so who knows..

Might be worth it to see if they post the Z790 Apex for sale sometime the rest of today, Newegg just opened 30minutes ago...


----------



## OC2000

motivman said:


> A-die doesn't like higher voltages AT ALL. Anything over 1.55V for me with A-die and the memory starts acting possessed, and this is on water. Also, I do not think a lot of 13900K's can do more than 8200 TBH, both my A-die kits top out at 8200 also.


I've just done loads of stability tests all day with no issue at the above settings. Ran one CB23 and it crashed and then loading into windows decided to blue screen. I've reduced VDD and VDDQ to 1.57/1.55 and im half way through a CB23 10 min test now. I'll do all the stress testing again. 
I think you are right about going above 1.55. Not sure how everyone else is managing 1.6+ maybe it is down to IMC strength.
I'll try without the contact frame tomorrow to see if that does anything. If not I guess it will be finding something stable until the KS comes out which will most certainly have a better MC.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> Have you tried the new KINGPIN BIOS with your M-Die kit? I seen someone talking about it in the last couple pages, apparently pushing 7400+ on M-Die. I'm curious as I'm about to pull the trigger on a Z690 KINGPIN since I can't find a Z790 APEX anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Not for A-Die or pushing 7800+, no. It handles up to ~7600 fairly well with A-Die, and ~7000 with M-Die with some effort. If you have a weak IMC, the Unify-X will exacerbate that issue since it's extremely voltage sensitive and the board itself does not like signal voltages pumped up; doesn't react well to high voltages the way other boards seem to.


I ended up getting A-die, but I was doing 7200 @ 1.6 with the M-die. To be honest, I probably have an IMC limit because 7400 is the max data rate I’ve stabilised. I’m not sure anymore tbh. A lot of individuals are claiming insane tunes with the Dark so I’m just looking for the outside in. By this point I’m completely over memory tuning.


----------



## rulik006

> Z790 Apex was listed to be back in stock on Dec 14th - today at Newegg! But Newegg keeps changing their availability so who knows..


Don't buy Asus garbage! instead buy EVGA scrap


----------



## adolf512

WebsterRKL said:


> Are you saying running the CPU stock can lead to increased stability and higher DDR5 frequencies?
> 
> I apologize for the nooby question, but I'm running a 13600K stock no OC (beyond XMP) since it's only a workstation water-cooled typewriter build and getting the Gskill 7600 kit stable no errors TM5 at 8000 36 46 46 121, 1.500v both VDD and QVDD, and I'm a god-awful terribly dysfunctional overclocker.
> 
> Reason for no CPU OC with my daily is it adds very little improvement in responsiveness for my work apps, whereas the DDR5 8000/36 adds a huge boost for my work apps, and with the water-loop the 13600K runs super-cold.
> View attachment 2588670
> 
> View attachment 2588671


It can indeed be the case that overclocking increases the CPU temperature resulting in the imc becoming unstable. To test this you should run a test that stresses the CPU a lot and not just the RAM.

I see that you have very good cooling and yes this might help you with your memory overclocking. 

But even if you end up having to clock the memory 200mhz lower due to overclock the actual performance of the system in general is still very likely to improve.


----------



## adolf512

acoustic said:


> Not for A-Die or pushing 7800+, no. It handles up to ~7600 fairly well with A-Die, and ~7000 with M-Die with some effort. If you have a weak IMC, the Unify-X will exacerbate that issue since it's extremely voltage sensitive and the board itself does not like signal voltages pumped up; doesn't react well to high voltages the way other boards seem to.


My msi pro z790-p also doesn't seem to like high memory controller voltages for some reason (could also be the imc though).

X61 was able to go from 6600 to 7200 by switching out that motherboard to the z790 apex. 

General msi issue?


----------



## WebsterRKL

adolf512 said:


> It can indeed be the case that overclocking increases the CPU temperature resulting in the imc becoming unstable. To test this you should run a test that stresses the CPU a lot and not just the RAM.
> 
> I see that you have very good cooling and yes this might help you with your memory overclocking.
> 
> But even if you end up having to clock the memory 200mhz lower due to overclock the actual performance of the system in general is still very likely to improve.


Thank you, I'll run some CPU stability tests at stock and also add a 5.6Ghz Per Core (2-Pcores) and rerun TM5 and CPU stability - and see if I can improve on my daily.


----------



## z390e

rulik006 said:


> Don't buy Asus garbage! instead buy EVGA scrap
> View attachment 2588673


Despite the last couple of fiascos ASUS has had, I'd rather gamble that ASUS got its QC right than wait for EVGA to _maybe_ have a board available for sale. Im using a z690 Dark that does everything I want and I still have no plans to buy another EVGA product ever again. What kind of a vendor doesn't have their motherboards ready to go for a CPU launch event at the same time they aren't even doing GPUs? Then has a "launch event" but doesn't notify anyone who signed up to be notified? Look at their forums there are dozens of people asking "Why didnt I get a notify on a board that still isn't out?"

Then you have 1 forum moderator saying "Maybe late December, early January for actual launch", while 1 extreme LN2 overclocker zippytek white knights EVGA trying to get a sponsorship deal telling people its easy to hit these RPL DDR5 speeds on ADL on z690 Dark...like random users are sitting around with massive pots of LN2 or can get 9600 stable on z690 like he can, there are ~50 people with over 8000 stable on HWBot and I can't imagine many of them using ADL and Dark.


----------



## acoustic

centvalny said:


> ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ATX Motherboard Z790 Chipset LGA 1700 2x DDR5 DIMM Slots Max 64GB 8000MHz PCIe Gen 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.centralcomputer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 left in santa clara store


It's in-store only. I live in NJ. I did see that listing but you can't order it.


----------



## adolf512

WebsterRKL said:


> Thank you, I'll run some CPU stability tests at stock and also add a 5.6Ghz Per Core (2-Pcores) and rerun TM5 and CPU stability - and see if I can improve on my daily.


I think y-crunches is more likely to find instability than TM5.

But you might be better off thinking your memory overclock is fully stable. Ignorance is a bliss (unless you do something important on your computer where an instability can create a lot of problems for you).









If you need to run something like this to find instability it might be fine for real (realistic usage).


----------



## motivman

acoustic said:


> Have you tried the new KINGPIN BIOS with your M-Die kit? I seen someone talking about it in the last couple pages, apparently pushing 7400+ on M-Die. I'm curious as I'm about to pull the trigger on a Z690 KINGPIN since I can't find a Z790 APEX anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Not for A-Die or pushing 7800+, no. It handles up to ~7600 fairly well with A-Die, and ~7000 with M-Die with some effort. If you have a weak IMC, the Unify-X will exacerbate that issue since it's extremely voltage sensitive and the board itself does not like signal voltages pumped up; doesn't react well to high voltages the way other boards seem to.


I honestly wouldn't buy the Z690 Kingpin. I had it for two weeks and it was a very underwhelming experience. Anything I could do on my Unify-X, I could also do on the Kingpin. I could not overclock ANY of my memory modules better on the Kingpin AT ALL. Wait for Z690 Apex or Z790 Kingpin to come back in stock...



https://www.evga.com/products/productlist.aspx?type=1&family=Motherboard+Family&chipset=Intel+Z790


----------



## acoustic

WebsterRKL said:


> @acoustic
> 
> Z790 Apex was listed to be back in stock on Dec 14th - today at Newegg! But Newegg keeps changing their availability so who knows..
> 
> Might be worth it to see if they post the Z790 Apex for sale sometime the rest of today, Newegg just opened 30minutes ago...


I've been keeping an eye on it today. Newegg has kind of pissed me off; ordered the V3000 Plus, said Dec14 delivery.. my package has sat in Ontario CALIFORNIA since December 09 .. it's had zero scans since. I'm worried it may have been lost. I understand it's the holidays, but **** me


----------



## motivman

adolf512 said:


> I think y-crunches is more likely to find instability than TM5.
> 
> But you might be better off thinking your memory overclock is fully stable. Ignorance is a bliss (unless you do something important on your computer where an instability can create a lot of problems for you).
> View attachment 2588679
> 
> 
> If you need to run something like this to find instability it might be fine for real (realistic usage).


I do not use y-cruncher for stability testing, but this is my stability testing process for my memory...

1. Pass TM5 [email protected]
2. Play Spiderman, maxed out with Ray tracing for about 3-4 hours
3. Loop 4k videos on youtube (using chrome) for about 2-3 hours (Suprisingly, this for me is more sensitive to memory issues than the above 2 tests. If chrome crashes, 100% my memory is unstable)

I have never had any issues (random pc crashing) if my memory passes the above three test scenarios.


----------



## WebsterRKL

adolf512 said:


> I think y-crunches is more likely to find instability than TM5.
> 
> But you might be better off thinking your memory overclock is fully stable. Ignorance is a bliss (unless you do something important on your computer where an instability can create a lot of problems for you).
> View attachment 2588679
> 
> 
> If you need to run something like this to find instability it might be fine for real (realistic usage).


Thanks again, I'm both very ignorant and blissful right now, lol. 

Been running the TM5 stable 8000/36 8-10hrs a day for 10days working, and no mem dumps no freezing, no blue/black screens, no file corruption or loss - so far issue free. 

I'll record this current profile on USB stick and Bios 1 and attempt to improve the daily "experimental" profile on Bios 2. 

And I agree with you 100%, stability is relative to the purpose and function of your PC. For me, not submitting to hwbot, just a stable daily work OC is all I need.


----------



## db000

motivman said:


> M-die Power!!!! This is how tight I could get this kit, very impressed. I literally maxed out the trefi! 7800 was a no go. tried up to 1.7v, no dice. This is getting the same latency as my Gskill A-die at 8200 C36. I think I am returning both my A-die kits and keeping my M-die for a little longer. I will revisit A-die when I can get a 8000 kit for less than $250, which shouldn't be too long. All in all, Z790 Apex is a BEAST of a board... on my Z690 Unify-x with the EXACT same processor, The best I could get stable on this kit was 7000 C34, now I am doing 7600 C32, lol. Btw, for anyone that is wondering, my MC SP is between 80-82 whenever I check it.
> 
> View attachment 2588609


Well done! Thanks for sharing! Might need to pull the trigger on a 13900K... If my 12900KS isn't doing this good of a result 

-----

Not yet switched to my Z790 Apex, still in its box, shame on me.... But I atleast swapped waterblock today.
Much better with EK Velocity2 Acetal, the EK Delta2 Sub-Zero block is not it. Software is not mature enough yet..... 200W of heat dumped in the loop 24/7 with no way of controlling Fan speed (must connect one fan atleast) or desired Min. temp (always aims for 0c)...  But it was fun doing OCTVB 5,7Ghz on my 12900KS in Windows before putting load on it.....

Can't say derbauer didn't warn me  hey, atleast I tried it...


----------



## motivman

db000 said:


> Well done! Thanks for sharing! Might need to pull the trigger on a 13900K... If my 12900KS isn't doing this good of a result
> 
> -----
> 
> Not yet switched to my Z790 Apex, still in its box, shame on me.... But I atleast swapped waterblock today.
> Much better with EK Velocity2 Acetal, the EK Delta2 Sub-Zero block is not it. Software is not mature enough yet..... 200W of heat dumped in the loop 24/7 with no way of controlling Fan speed (must connect one fan atleast) or desired Min. temp (always aims for 0c)...  But it was fun doing OCTVB 5,7Ghz on my 12900KS in Windows before putting load on it.....
> 
> Can't say derbauer didn't warn me  hey, atleast I tried it...


Here is my setup. For some reason my Velocity 2 is GARBAGE at cooling my 13900k at 5.7ghz. With that waterblock, I get 98-100C almost right away with CB23. I am using my modified waterblock.. what I call the *EK Velocity Supremacy EVO*, LOL. It uses the EK Supremacy Evo CSQ Full nickel top with original insert, insert pin and J2 jetplate with Ek Velocity copper coldplate and EK velocity Precise mount with LGA 1700 backplate. With this setup, I get max 90-91C in CB23 at 330W (5.7P/4.4E/5.0 Cache at 1.3v) and 29-30C coolant temps, unfortunately my CPU is not delidded, since rockitcool delid and relid kit has been SOLD OUT for a while. Would like to run this processor at 5.8ghz daily, but temps are too high right now.


----------



## TraumatikOC

db000 said:


> Well done! Thanks for sharing! Might need to pull the trigger on a 13900K... If my 12900KS isn't doing this good of a result
> 
> -----
> 
> Not yet switched to my Z790 Apex, still in its box, shame on me.... But I atleast swapped waterblock today.
> Much better with EK Velocity2 Acetal, the EK Delta2 Sub-Zero block is not it. Software is not mature enough yet..... 200W of heat dumped in the loop 24/7 with no way of controlling Fan speed (must connect one fan atleast) or desired Min. temp (always aims for 0c)...  But it was fun doing OCTVB 5,7Ghz on my 12900KS in Windows before putting load on it.....
> 
> Can't say derbauer didn't warn me  hey, atleast I tried it...


Curious , Which ekwb tec was it , the one with controller mounted on cpu block or new one with controller separate ?


----------



## motivman

motivman said:


> Here is my setup. For some reason my Velocity 2 is GARBAGE at cooling my 13900k at 5.7ghz. With that waterblock, I get 98-100C almost right away with CB23. I am using my modified waterblock.. what I call the *EK Velocity Supremacy EVO*, LOL. It uses the EK Supremacy Evo CSQ Full nickel top with original insert, insert pin and J2 jetplate with Ek Velocity copper coldplate and EK velocity Precise mount with LGA 1700 backplate. With this setup, I get max 90-91C in CB23 at 330W (5.7P/4.4E/5.0 Cache at 1.3v) and 29-30C coolant temps, unfortunately my CPU is not delidded, since rockitcool delid and relid kit has been SOLD OUT for a while. Would like to run this processor at 5.8ghz daily, but temps are too high right now.
> 
> View attachment 2588692


I just bought rockitcool delid kit, seems like it came back in stock today... can't wait to see what this cpu can do delidded, hopefully I can get 5.8ghz daily.


----------



## motivman

TraumatikOC said:


> Curious , Which ekwb tec was it , the one with controller mounted on cpu block or new one with controller separate ?


most likely this one:









EK-Quantum Delta² TEC D-RGB - Full Nickel


Thermoelectric cooler for LGA 1700 and 12th gen Intel Core CPUs




www.ekwb.com


----------



## ViTosS

Posted in wrong thread, sorry delete please.


----------



## db000

TraumatikOC said:


> Curious , Which ekwb tec was it , the one with controller mounted on cpu block or new one with controller separate ?





motivman said:


> most likely this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EK-Quantum Delta² TEC D-RGB - Full Nickel
> 
> 
> Thermoelectric cooler for LGA 1700 and 12th gen Intel Core CPUs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ekwb.com


Yes, exactly, the Delta2.


----------



## TraumatikOC

db000 said:


> Yes, exactly, the Delta2.


Thats the one ive been pondering about since they updated the software for 13th gen


----------



## Alex_TOPMAN

motivman said:


> M-die Power!!!!


Where is a power? I have the same TM5 test time on my green hynix 4800 OC, non binned apex z690 and 12900kf (with not so good memory controller as 13xxx has). 🤷‍♂️


----------



## motivman

affxct said:


> I ended up getting A-die, but I was doing 7200 @ 1.6 with the M-die. To be honest, I probably have an IMC limit because 7400 is the max data rate I’ve stabilised. I’m not sure anymore tbh. A lot of individuals are claiming insane tunes with the Dark so I’m just looking for the outside in. By this point I’m completely over memory tuning.


memory tuning is a hair pulling process sometimes, so many settings to play with. For example, I spent a few hours the other day trying to get a profile stable, tried every combination of voltages I could, this was hours of trial and error, when the simple fix was just increasing trtp from 10 to 12, SMH.


----------



## OC2000

motivman said:


> memory tuning is a hair pulling process sometimes, so many settings to play with. For example, I spent a few hours the other day trying to get a profile stable, tried every combination of voltages I could, this was hours of trial and error, when the simple fix was just increasing trtp from 10 to 12, SMH.


lol that's my latest try. Contact frame off and Trpt 10 to 12. Trying 8400 again


----------



## Agent-A01

Copper Byski MRC-X heatsinks installed. These are easily 3-4x heavier than stock.

SPD temps max out around 35c with ambient ~22c at 1.5 vdimm.

Worth it over stock? I'm not so sure. Will have to do more testing.


----------



## GQNerd

Agent-A01 said:


> View attachment 2588735
> 
> 
> Copper Byski MRC-X heatsinks installed. These are easily 3-4x heavier than stock.
> 
> SPD temps max out around 35c with ambient ~22c at 1.5 vdimm.
> 
> Worth it over stock? I'm not so sure. Will have to do more testing.


they sure are pretty tho!


----------



## morph.

Agent-A01 said:


> View attachment 2588735
> 
> 
> Copper Byski MRC-X heatsinks installed. These are easily 3-4x heavier than stock.
> 
> SPD temps max out around 35c with ambient ~22c at 1.5 vdimm.
> 
> Worth it over stock? I'm not so sure. Will have to do more testing.


I nearly bought them but folded and grabbed the bitspower dual dimm water kit instead got delivered yesterday... Still need to acquire an A-die kit... really want the 8000 gskill but no stock in sight. 

Hrmm 35 deg is good if maxed out, but I assume you have a 120 fan blowing at it directly?


----------



## morph.

OC2000 said:


> lol that's my latest try. Contact frame off and Trpt 10 to 12. Trying 8400 again


so can you confirm with the contact frame off you are now more stable as well? With better mem oc as others reported I might have to pull mine off now when I drain my loop next godamnit.


----------



## motivman

morph. said:


> I nearly bought them but folded and grabbed the bitspower dual dimm water kit instead got delivered yesterday... Still need to acquire an A-die kit... really want the 8000 gskill but no stock in sight.
> 
> Hrmm 35 deg is good if maxed out, but I assume you have a 120 fan blowing at it directly?


yeah, no way these are cooling to max 35C passive or with case air flow only. They look pretty though. Wish they were waterblock compatible... I would be all over them.


----------



## motivman

morph. said:


> so can you confirm with the contact frame off you are now more stable as well? With better mem oc as others reported I might have to pull mine off now when I drain my loop next godamnit.


I too ditched the contact frame when I was struggling on my Unify-x, can't say it made a difference for me, but I never even bothered with it on the Z790 Apex.


----------



## Agent-A01

morph. said:


> I nearly bought them but folded and grabbed the bitspower dual dimm water kit instead got delivered yesterday... Still need to acquire an A-die kit... really want the 8000 gskill but no stock in sight.
> 
> Hrmm 35 deg is good if maxed out, but I assume you have a 120 fan blowing at it directly?


I'm using the old 3x 40mm corsair with noctuas. A high cfm 120 should be a decent amount better


----------



## WebsterRKL

acoustic said:


> I've been keeping an eye on it today. Newegg has kind of pissed me off; ordered the V3000 Plus, said Dec14 delivery.. my package has sat in Ontario CALIFORNIA since December 09 .. it's had zero scans since. I'm worried it may have been lost. I understand it's the holidays, but **** me


Same thing happened to my Z790 Apex pre-order, sat in Ontario CA at the Newegg fulfillment center for 4days with only "label created" thought it was also lost, then Newegg shipped it the day before Thankgiving Nov 23rd and arrived Nov 25th - a good board.

Have a very strong hunch Newegg has a good number of Z790 Apex boards simply sitting in their Ontario warehouse, they are not releasing. Nov 30th they took orders for delivery on Dec 14th today, anyone have a Z790 Apex ship out today? Maybe they're waiting for a new solid bios from Mr. Shamino for the Gskill 8000 kits to avoid returns and refunds???

I know Asus and Newegg do not want returned - open box Apex boards piling up, just a hunch on my part. 

------

Also, feel like it's the time to update my EKWB 115x CPU block to socket 1700.

Considering either the natural aluminum/solid nickel OR the black anodized satin titanium, guess I'll sell the current block for $99.


----------



## ESRCJ

My Z790 Dark Kingpin just arrived today. I can't get 7600 stable regardless of voltage and and 7800 won't even get past 6 percent of Karhu lol. Even using the same timings for 7600 that were once stable on my Z790 Max Extreme, it's a no-go on the Dark KP for me. I'll probably just return this board while I can.


----------



## tibcsi0407

ESRCJ said:


> My Z790 Dark Kingpin just arrived today. I can't get 7600 stable regardless of voltage and and 7800 won't even get past 6 percent of Karhu lol. Even using the same timings for 7600 that were once stable on my Z790 Max Extreme, it's a no-go on the Dark KP for me. I'll probably just return this board while I can.


Are you using contactframe?


----------



## ESRCJ

tibcsi0407 said:


> Are you using contactframe?


Nope. I didn't install it just to rule that out as a potential issue if things didn't work out with this board.


----------



## tibcsi0407

ESRCJ said:


> Nope. I didn't install it just to rule that out as a potential issue if things didn't work out with this board.


It's strange. It will be better I believe, since 690 Dark is still good af.


----------



## energie80

ESRCJ said:


> Nope. I didn't install it just to rule that out as a potential issue if things didn't work out with this board.


Maibe it needs a firmware update or sell it to me? 😅


----------



## OC2000

morph. said:


> so can you confirm with the contact frame off you are now more stable as well? With better mem oc as others reported I might have to pull mine off now when I drain my loop next godamnit.


No difference to me. Temps didn't change much either. Maybe its helping those with warped boards.


----------



## OC2000

WebsterRKL said:


> Same thing happened to my Z790 Apex pre-order, sat in Ontario CA at the Newegg fulfillment center for 4days with only "label created" thought it was also lost, then Newegg shipped it the day before Thankgiving Nov 23rd and arrived Nov 25th - a good board.
> 
> Have a very strong hunch Newegg has a good number of Z790 Apex boards simply sitting in their Ontario warehouse, they are not releasing. Nov 30th they took orders for delivery on Dec 14th today, anyone have a Z790 Apex ship out today? Maybe they're waiting for a new solid bios from Mr. Shamino for the Gskill 8000 kits to avoid returns and refunds???
> 
> I know Asus and Newegg do not want returned - open box Apex boards piling up, just a hunch on my part.
> 
> ------
> 
> Also, feel like it's the time to update my EKWB 115x CPU block to socket 1700.
> 
> Considering either the natural aluminum/solid nickel OR the black anodized satin titanium, guess I'll sell the current block for $99.


Here's the Black Nickel on mine.


----------



## ESRCJ

energie80 said:


> Maibe it needs a firmware update or sell it to me? 😅


I'm all up to date on drivers and firmware based on EVGA's support page. If it's the motherboard, I can't say I want to wait around for BIOS updates, especially when the return window is only 14 days. 

The one caveat is that perhaps my CPU IMC is degrading. On my Z790 Extreme, my 13900K initially scored ab MC SP 75 when the option first came to the BIOS. During the course of a few weeks, my SP score kept working it's way down, eventually to 71. I haven't tested in again since then, so who knows if it would score lower now. I'll note that I never pushed this CPU hard, so the idea that the IMC had degraded is crazy to me. I've pushed other CPUs much further in terms of voltages and never had any issues.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm exhausted. I've tried 2 13900Ks, 2 kits of G.skill 7600, and 2 different motherboards.


----------



## energie80

what voltages are you using?


----------



## tibcsi0407

ESRCJ said:


> I'm all up to date on drivers and firmware based on EVGA's support page. If it's the motherboard, I can't say I want to wait around for BIOS updates, especially when the return window is only 14 days.
> 
> The one caveat is that perhaps my CPU IMC is degrading. On my Z790 Extreme, my 13900K initially scored ab MC SP 75 when the option first came to the BIOS. During the course of a few weeks, my SP score kept working it's way down, eventually to 71. I haven't tested in again since then, so who knows if it would score lower now. I'll note that I never pushed this CPU hard, so the idea that the IMC had degraded is crazy to me. I've pushed other CPUs much further in terms of voltages and never had any issues.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm exhausted. I've tried 2 13900Ks, 2 kits of G.skill 7600, and 2 different motherboards.


The MC SP is not fully representative. You will get different results if you run it multiple times.


----------



## satinghostrider

tibcsi0407 said:


> The MC SP is not fully representative. You will get different results if you run it multiple times.


Not only that. When I run my Kingston M-Die on my CPU, it shows MC SP79 but once I switch to Gskill 7800C36 kit and run the MC SP test again, it drops to 73. This stays the same with repeated runs and when I swap back to my Kingston kit and test the MC SP again, it goes back to 79. I think it's also the kit you use that shows a different SP which is kinda crazy cause it's odd that different kits shows different MC SP when you're just actually testing the IMC unless the MC SP testing algorithms are different between different type of memory NANDs.


----------



## tibcsi0407

satinghostrider said:


> Not only that. When I run my Kingston M-Die on my CPU, it shows MC SP79 but once I switch to Gskill 7800C36 kit and run the MC SP test again, it drops to 73. This stays the same with repeated runs and when I swap back to my Kingston kit and test the MC SP again, it goes back to 79. I think it's also the kit you use that shows a different SP which is kinda crazy cause it's odd that different kits shows different MC SP when you're just actually testing the IMC.


LOL


----------



## rulik006

ESRCJ said:


> My Z790 Dark Kingpin just arrived today. I can't get 7600 stable regardless of voltage and and 7800 won't even get past 6 percent of Karhu lol. Even using the same timings for 7600 that were once stable on my Z790 Max Extreme, it's a no-go on the Dark KP for me. I'll probably just return this board while I can.


You can sell this scrap to me for $399


----------



## rulik006

I was tried newer batches of Samsung B-die to see if there is any difference from release and was kinda dissapointed
Memory: FlareX5 5600c36 2022 september
max stable on ADL + Unify X / Z690-F Strix 6600 38-38-38 at 1.43v, 6800 hard to stabilize
Interesting how far B-die can be pushed on Z790 + RPL (stable)
Very sad about Samsung, Hynix domination is boring


----------



## tibcsi0407

rulik006 said:


> I was tried newer batches of Samsung B-die to see if there is any difference from release and was kinda dissapointed
> Memory: FlareX5 5600c36 2022 september
> max stable on ADL + Unify X / Z690-F Strix 6600 38-38-38 at 1.43v, 6800 hard to stabilize
> Interesting how far B-die can be pushed on Z790 + RPL (stable)
> Very sad about Samsung, Hynix domination is boring


When they won't call it B-Die then it will be different. ☺


----------



## hrtz47

OC2000 said:


> Here's the Black Nickel on mine.


What RAM block do you use? how much improvement from just cooled by fan?


----------



## ChorizoNinja

ESRCJ said:


> My Z790 Dark Kingpin just arrived today. I can't get 7600 stable regardless of voltage and and 7800 won't even get past 6 percent of Karhu lol. Even using the same timings for 7600 that were once stable on my Z790 Max Extreme, it's a no-go on the Dark KP for me. I'll probably just return this board while I can.



I wanted the EVGa Z790 Dark KP to be a good board because of the unique design, but it seems that the Asus Z790 Apex have some magic powder spread over it.

I can do 8000 36-46-46-44 at 1.45 V vdd and vddq on the sticks and 1.15 SA, 1.2 MC and 1.25 vddq with Teamgroup 7600 A-die kit on water with some custom Copper Heatsinks and Thermal paste on the ICs. Everything with adjuster secondary and tertiary timings. Probably not the tightest, but as well 55ns in aida with the CPU at stock clocks. Run Karhu up to 20000%, blender for 4 hours (surprisingly took me more time to adjust this than Karhu) and another 4 hours of 3D mark TimeSpy Extreme loops. This is something that I can't do with any other board, and the closest one is the MSI Z790I Edge, because it has a proper A-Die bios, the MSI Z690I Unify can't even do 7600 XMP.

I wonder what is going to happen to EVGA boards as well now that Kingpin is leaving.


----------



## OC2000

hrtz47 said:


> What RAM block do you use? how much improvement from just cooled by fan?


Bitspower 2-DIMMS RAM Water Cooling Module. I haven't tried active fan cooling over the ram, but with water I get no more than 6C over water temp at max load whether it's 10 mins or 10 hours. On idle it's the same as water temp.

Im using a MO-RA 3 360 Pro at the moment so keeping water close to ambient temp is easy.


----------



## 673714

G.Skill? Should be named Tape.Skill

I took the heat spreader off 1 stick last night and there was double sided tape in 5 different places.

The thermal pads on the chips have 2 layers of double sided tape, 1 on each side to make it stick. Another thicker double sided mounting tape on the side of the module that has no chips, and finally both sides of the heat spreader have a thin metal plaque with a logo on 1 side and serial numbers on the other, held on by clear double sided tape


----------



## Agent-A01

satinghostrider said:


> but once I switch to Gskill 7800C36 kit and run the MC SP test again, it drops to 73


Same score I get on my 7600 kit. Interesting.


----------



## motivman

WebsterRKL said:


> Same thing happened to my Z790 Apex pre-order, sat in Ontario CA at the Newegg fulfillment center for 4days with only "label created" thought it was also lost, then Newegg shipped it the day before Thankgiving Nov 23rd and arrived Nov 25th - a good board.
> 
> Have a very strong hunch Newegg has a good number of Z790 Apex boards simply sitting in their Ontario warehouse, they are not releasing. Nov 30th they took orders for delivery on Dec 14th today, anyone have a Z790 Apex ship out today? Maybe they're waiting for a new solid bios from Mr. Shamino for the Gskill 8000 kits to avoid returns and refunds???
> 
> I know Asus and Newegg do not want returned - open box Apex boards piling up, just a hunch on my part.
> 
> ------
> 
> Also, feel like it's the time to update my EKWB 115x CPU block to socket 1700.
> 
> Considering either the natural aluminum/solid nickel OR the black anodized satin titanium, guess I'll sell the current block for $99.
> 
> View attachment 2588761
> 
> View attachment 2588762
> 
> View attachment 2588763


So i have tried Velocity 2, Magnitude, Supremacy evo and velocity with my 13900k chasing cold temps. I get horrible temps on my magnitude and velocity 2, but very good temps using either the supremacy evo or original velocity...

example
with magnitude and velocity 2 running CB23 at 5.7ghz 1.3V, I get 99-100C almost right away

with EK supremacy evo and original velocity running CB23 at 5.7ghz 1.3v, I get 90-91C max package temp after 30 minutes of looping CB23

of course, I bought the LGA 1700 backplate to use with the magnitude, velocity and supremacy evo....

my 13900k is not delidded and water temps are around 30C, but I really want to get 5.8ghz daily stable, so I just ordered rockitcool delid kit to delid my CPU.

I even used the EK torque screwdriver to install the velocity 2, but temps are still terrible with it...


----------



## motivman

OC2000 said:


> Here's the Black Nickel on mine.


how are your temps with the ek magnitude? I get better temps on the Supremacy evo and original velocity and horrible temps on velocity 2 and magnitude, which doesn't make any sense AT ALL.


----------



## Madness11

Sad , if i OC my cpu 5.6-5.7 , it's not super stable . But with stock cpu full stable .. any suggestions about Oc cpu + memory ??


----------



## Nizzen

Madness11 said:


> Sad , if i OC my cpu 5.6-5.7 , it's not super stable . But with stock cpu full stable .. any suggestions about Oc cpu + memory ??


It's a part of the fun of overclocking  It takes time, and restart, after restart, after restart, after restart..................

OC on cpu AND memory, and the cpu needs more "juice". That's just the way it is. More cooling is allways better too


----------



## bigfootnz

motivman said:


> So i have tried Velocity 2, Magnitude, Supremacy evo and velocity with my 13900k chasing cold temps. I get horrible temps on my magnitude and velocity 2, but very good temps using either the supremacy evo or original velocity...
> 
> example
> with magnitude and velocity 2 running CB23 at 5.7ghz 1.3V, I get 99-100C almost right away
> 
> with EK supremacy evo and original velocity running CB23 at 5.7ghz 1.3v, I get 90-91C max package temp after 30 minutes of looping CB23
> 
> of course, I bought the LGA 1700 backplate to use with the magnitude, velocity and supremacy evo....
> 
> my 13900k is not delidded and water temps are around 30C, but I really want to get 5.8ghz daily stable, so I just ordered rockitcool delid kit to delid my CPU.
> 
> I even used the EK torque screwdriver to install the velocity 2, but temps are still terrible with it...


I've experienced same thing with Velocity+LGA1700 backplate and Velocity 2. Firstly, I was using Velocity 2 until one pin just snapped off. Then I've replaced it regular Velocity. I've noticed lower temperature but as I didn't done proper tests before and after, I thought I must be wrong. Then when I added RAM block I've put back Velocity 2 which I got trough RMA. Again I noticed slightly higher temps with Velocity 2, but as I thought that Velocity 2 should be better than regular Velocity I didn't done tests before and after.

But now I'll swap Velocity 2 with Velocity and do proper test before and after. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.


----------



## scotthart175a

soroush_co said:


> guys i just got this kit but i cant stabale it on 4 dimm, could you please help me out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OC 4dim 2xdual 16gb DDR5 7200
> 
> 
> I try to OC 4xDDR5 with inel xmp to 7200 but itshas boot loop, after bios update its working with 2x but dosnt work with 4 of them, any idea how ican solve it? i try to increase voltage to 1.42 also change the PMIC voltage to by pre PMIC but has no defrence, I'm not expret so i didnt try...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Hate to state it but 4 Simms often unstable try 2 Simms larger gbs!


----------



## energie80

bigfootnz said:


> I've experienced same thing with Velocity+LGA1700 backplate and Velocity 2. Firstly, I was using Velocity 2 until one pin just snapped off. Then I've replaced it regular Velocity. I've noticed lower temperature but as I didn't done proper tests before and after, I thought I must be wrong. Then when I added RAM block I've put back Velocity 2 which I got trough RMA. Again I noticed slightly higher temps with Velocity 2, but as I thought that Velocity 2 should be better than regular Velocity I didn't done tests before and after.
> 
> But now I'll swap Velocity 2 with Velocity and do proper test before and after. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.


One of my friend had the same problem….any idea of the cause?


----------



## bigfootnz

energie80 said:


> One of my friend had the same problem….any idea of the cause?


Do not have any clue. Only what it comes to my mind is bad design either regarding water channels or back plate. But it looks like that Velocity 2 is not great block


----------



## energie80

Well a lot of people here is using it 🫣


----------



## gecko991

I have a Quantum Velocity 2 with no issues.


----------



## motivman

bigfootnz said:


> Do not have any clue. Only what it comes to my mind is bad design either regarding water channels or back plate. But it looks like that Velocity 2 is not great block


I couldn't believe it either. I returned my first one, got another one, still **** temps. went out and bought ekwb torque screwdriver, temps even worse. got original velocity and temps way better... so I don't know. I thought ekwb designed velocity 2 specifically for lga 1700, but looks like performance is just bad. read this thread, a lot of people reporting poor performance with velocity 2 also.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/rz9ejh


----------



## WebsterRKL

OC2000 said:


> Here's the Black Nickel on mine.


Sweeet EK block and setup! 


Thinking about moving from my black frame and plexi 115x block to the aluminum and full nickel 1700 block. 

The 115x QM block is "so tight" mounting on the Z790 Apex I could not use the white EK Teflon washers, had to eliminate all (4) of them from the assembly.

Still getting very good thermals using TG Kryonaut and the "in line with die" method of paste application. I stopped spreading an even layer of the Kryonaut with the included spatula per Thermal Grizzly's instructions, nope.

Getting better seatings and thermals with both EKWB water blocks and Noctua air cold plates using Kryonaut in a simple line of paste directly over the dies then a dot on both sides for balance when applying down pressure while seating.

------

Ordering this bad boy tomorrow, should blend well with the Z790 Apex aesthetic.


----------



## motivman

WebsterRKL said:


> Sweeet EK block and setup!
> 
> 
> Thinking about moving from my black frame and plexi 115x block to the aluminum and full nickel 1700 block.
> 
> The 115x QM block is "so tight" mounting on the Z790 Apex I could not use the white EK Teflon washers, had to eliminate all (4) of them from the assembly.
> 
> Still getting very good thermals using TG Kryonaut and the "in line with die" method of paste application. I stopped spreading an even layer of the Kryonaut with the included spatula per Thermal Grizzly's instructions, nope.
> 
> Getting better seatings and thermals with both EKWB water blocks and Noctua air cold plates using Kryonaut in a simple line of paste directly over the dies then a dot on both sides for balance when applying down pressure while seating.
> 
> ------
> 
> Ordering this bad boy tomorrow, should blend well with the Z790 Apex aesthetic.
> 
> View attachment 2588896


I am sorry, but you are about to waste $269.


----------



## WebsterRKL

motivman said:


> I am sorry, but you are about to waste $269.


I know I'm wasting about $100, cheaper blocks same performance, chose the EK QM mostly for the clean disassembly and the overall aesthetic - which I love.

Already had the HL 280 rad, the D5, the Aquaero 6 pump top and cover and the Bitspower fittings from 2017, so this loop only had to purchase tubing coolant and a CPU water block, so didn't mind spending a bit more, 100% subjective but I really love the aesthetic of the EKWB Quantum Magnitude blocks, not certain why. 

Looked into the top 5 CPU blocks and with my super short "CPU only" loop they will all perform about the same, the EK just caught my eye.


----------



## bigfootnz

motivman said:


> I couldn't believe it either. I returned my first one, got another one, still **** temps. went out and bought ekwb torque screwdriver, temps even worse. got original velocity and temps way better... so I don't know. I thought ekwb designed velocity 2 specifically for lga 1700, but looks like performance is just bad. read this thread, a lot of people reporting poor performance with velocity 2 also.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/rz9ejh
> 
> View attachment 2588895


What is even worse, when I was addding RAM block, I was thinking should I replace Velocity with Velocity 2 and after 10 min I made wrong decision. Now I have to drain loop, but at least I do not have to drain whole loop. Another weekend project for me


----------



## motivman

WebsterRKL said:


> I know I'm wasting about $100, cheaper blocks same performance, chose the EK QM mostly for the clean disassembly and the overall aesthetic - which I love.
> 
> Already had the HL 280 rad, the D5, the Aquaero 6 pump top and cover and the Bitspower fittings from 2017, so this loop only had to purchase tubing coolant and a CPU water block, so didn't mind spending a bit more, 100% subjective but I really love the aesthetic of the EKWB Quantum Magnitude blocks, not certain why.
> 
> Looked into the top 5 CPU blocks and with my super short "CPU only" loop they will all perform about the same, the EK just caught my eye.


I understand the Aesthetic appeal. TRUST ME, I thought the magnitude was beautiful, i WISHED it performed better than my Velocity, but you are risking getting worse temps. I followed instructions to the T. I tightened till each screw was flush with its hole.. bad temps. I tightened till screws were recessed in its hole... still bad temps.


----------



## morph.

Has anyone gotten a hold of the G.Skill 8000 kit and compared it with say g.skill 7800/7600/7200?

Getting a bit impatient waiting for an 8000 to become available.


----------



## borant

WebsterRKL said:


> I know I'm wasting about $100, cheaper blocks same performance, chose the EK QM mostly for the clean disassembly and the overall aesthetic - which I love.
> 
> Already had the HL 280 rad, the D5, the Aquaero 6 pump top and cover and the Bitspower fittings from 2017, so this loop only had to purchase tubing coolant and a CPU water block, so didn't mind spending a bit more, 100% subjective but I really love the aesthetic of the EKWB Quantum Magnitude blocks, not certain why.
> 
> Looked into the top 5 CPU blocks and with my super short "CPU only" loop they will all perform about the same, the EK just caught my eye.


Did you check on Aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT VARIO 1700? Even if ordering with Vision and silver plate it is still cheaper and more pretty than Magnitude.
Over last year with 1700 I went from Velocity2 to Magnitude crap and now waiting for the delivery from aquacomputer. There are few positive reviews for VARIO adjustable plate and I want to test it myself anyway.


----------



## WebsterRKL

morph. said:


> Has anyone gotten a hold of the G.Skill 8000 kit and compared it with say g.skill 7800/7600/7200?
> 
> Getting a bit impatient waiting for an 8000 to become available.


Yep, I can't find any results from users either.

Is there a bios after 0806 designed just for the Gskill 8000 kit?

Was hoping they would hit stable 8200 and 8400 with the kit, wishful thinking. 

------

Went ahead and pulled the trigger on a new EK QM full nickel 1700 block.

$320.80 out the door, since added the lighting accent part. They don't sell the full nickel or black with satin titanium with any lighting effects, yet the inserts are the same size, should fit perfectly.

Did not want the super-bright white lighting that is the plexi block, this white static lighting should shine outward and only along the subtle edge just beyond the nickel - so dim white lighting, nickel, natural aluminum, and Bits deluxe white fittings - should blend well with the Z790 Apex aesthetic.

_Of course with the lighting MOD, the block is no longer Full Nickel, lol sacrilege lol_ 


























A nice aesthetic upgrade and 115x updated to 1700.


----------



## motivman

borant said:


> Did you check on Aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT VARIO 1700? Even if ordering with Vision and silver plate it is still cheaper and more pretty than Magnitude.
> Over last year with 1700 I went from Velocity2 to Magnitude crap and now waiting for the delivery from aquacomputer. There are few positive reviews for VARIO adjustable plate and I want to test it myself anyway.


I REALLY wanted to try that one, but its out of stock everywhere...


----------



## borant

motivman said:


> I REALLY wanted to try that one, but its out of stock everywhere...


Limited stock is available directly from AC. I took most expensive option with silver plate and Vision and it went out of stock after my order. I think they still have nickel Vario with and without Vision.

Update: just checked and all their stock is gone now


----------



## NBPDC505

Asus Z790 0808 BIOS now available: [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z790 Owners Thread


----------



## WebsterRKL

borant said:


> Did you check on Aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT VARIO 1700? Even if ordering with Vision and silver plate it is still cheaper and more pretty than Magnitude.
> Over last year with 1700 I went from Velocity2 to Magnitude crap and now waiting for the delivery from aquacomputer. There are few positive reviews for VARIO adjustable plate and I want to test it myself anyway.


The NEXT Vario from AC is extremely beautiful, looked at those when planning the loop back in 2021, and it seemed the ports IN and OUT were offset to one side, and I'm doing this arc thing with my tubing to keep things aesthetically and mechanically simple and the EK QM offered a wide distance between ports and both are centered well on the block.

Kind of made the custom loop like an AIO, no res, and only 2tubing runs are visible, the EK block allowed me to use simple 180degree arches and avoid multiple Bits extension fittings and 45degree rotaries, so functionally the EK was a good choice for my test bench work build.

Do have an Aquacomputer PWM D5 designed to sync with the Aquaero 6 - both working extremely well.

Thank you for the awesome suggestion. 

The tubing arches below make the loop extremely simple, and the EK block allowed for easy parallelism.









The Aquacomputer D5 PWM pump mounted externally at the lowest gravitational point in the loop as it should be - also 100% of the rotational energy is fully isolated with 1.5in Sorbothane Hemispheres durometer 30.


----------



## Ocfailfish

Currently running on an 13900k and z790-e gaming wifi with gskill 7600mhz ram:

Manual oc 7000
7000 34 43 43 112
SA - 0.9
Max SA watts in hwinfo - 8.5-9w
IMC - 1.2
IVR TX vddq - auto (1.41)
Dram vdd/vddq - 1.41
PMIC - sync all

I can't get 7200 stable with 1.435 in Dram and sa/imc set to auto. I'd like to push for 7200+ but the mobo limits my Dram voltage to 1.435. Asus marketing lies and omissions got me. Any ideas? I see a new 0808 bios just dropped.

I'm also concerned about pushing the sa and imc too hard. Is 1.3-1.35 sa really safe? Is the imc more tolerant of high voltages like 1.35-1.4 than the sa?


----------



## tibcsi0407

Ocfailfish said:


> Currently running on an 13900k and z790-e gaming wifi with gskill 7600mhz ram:
> 
> Manual oc 7000
> 7000 34 43 43 112
> SA - 0.9
> Max SA watts in hwinfo - 8.5-9w
> IMC - 1.2
> IVR TX vddq - auto (1.41)
> Dram vdd/vddq - 1.41
> PMIC - sync all
> 
> I can't get 7200 stable with 1.435 in Dram and sa/imc set to auto. I'd like to push for 7200+ but the mobo limits my Dram voltage to 1.435. Asus marketing lies and omissions got me. Any ideas? I see a new 0808 bios just dropped.
> 
> I'm also concerned about pushing the sa and imc too hard. Is 1.3-1.35 sa really safe? Is the imc more tolerant of high voltages like 1.35-1.4 than the sa?


IMC could be much higher, try 1.4V first. TX should be also 1.4 for SA it's better to use offset in my opinion, start with 0.250V offset first and see if it works.


----------



## bigfootnz

OK, I've just now swapped Velocity 2 with Velocity and my temp are 5C lower . I've done just quick 90sec CB23 test and you should compare only max temp, which will be after 30min average, between blocks. You can see clearly that Velocity is cooler for 5C.
Velocity 2







Velocity








My advice who ever is using Velocity 2 they should replace this block with what ever, excluding EKWB magnitude as per @motivman test. I've noticed same thing with two different Velocity 2 blocks, first one was RMA as one stud has snapped off.


----------



## OC2000

motivman said:


> how are your temps with the ek magnitude? I get better temps on the Supremacy evo and original velocity and horrible temps on velocity 2 and magnitude, which doesn't make any sense AT ALL.


I haven't begun OCing the CPU yet, but at stock on LLC4 DC_LL 1.02 and AC_LL 0.04 which puts VIDS around 1.14 during a CB23 load my temps are between 60-67 on all cores. roughly 212W of power. I haven't had any other blocks to test so can't compare. Im using TG Kryo Extreme layered evenly on.


----------



## OC2000

morph. said:


> Has anyone gotten a hold of the G.Skill 8000 kit and compared it with say g.skill 7800/7600/7200?
> 
> Getting a bit impatient waiting for an 8000 to become available.


I have both TG 7200 and G.kill 8000



















Unfortunately the 8000 didn't do any better so I was definitely at the limit of my IMC. Perhaps with the KS I'll get better results, so will keep the 8000s incase. Both were not stable at 8400, but are stable at 8200.


----------



## energie80

bigfootnz said:


> OK, I've just now swapped Velocity 2 with Velocity and my temp are 5C lower . I've done just quick 90sec CB23 test and you should compare only max temp, which will be after 30min average, between blocks. You can see clearly that Velocity is cooler for 5C.
> Velocity 2
> View attachment 2588922
> 
> Velocity
> View attachment 2588921
> 
> 
> My advice who ever is using Velocity 2 they should replace this block with what ever, excluding EKWB magnitude as per @motivman test. I've noticed same thing with two different Velocity 2 blocks, first one was RMA as one stud has snapped off.


Could this be the problem? It should be a feature….


----------



## Chintz

Ocfailfish said:


> Any ideas?


Im also on a Strix E and my "idea" is you save yourself the hassle to try to get anything above 7200, or maybe even 7000 stable with longevity. As said a couple of times (also by other Strix users, except the "I" ofc), 7600 for me is possible and runs stresstests fine, but after a reboot it isnt anymore. Personally running a tight 7000 setting at the moment. It has pretty much the same latency as my 7600 setting anyway, only losing some bandwith, but i'd never recognize this in gaming. The 7000 runs very smooth in games.
Maybe the new 0808 bios is the Strix holy grail? ...I doubt it


----------



## bigfootnz

energie80 said:


> Could this be the problem? It should be a feature….
> View attachment 2588936


I do not think that is the problem as contact with IHS was almost perfect. In my opinion water channels are probably designed incorrect and water flow is probably insufficient.

EDIT: I've checked it and mine do not have bow like this, it is almost flat, with just bow in center but nothing like this photo


----------



## OC2000

motivman said:


> how are your temps with the ek magnitude? I get better temps on the Supremacy evo and original velocity and horrible temps on velocity 2 and magnitude, which doesn't make any sense AT ALL.


Just did a quick OC All Core 57 / E Core 45 - Ring set at 52 max but only running at 51, LLC4 DC_LL 1.02 AC_LL 0.22. Temps in image. Water temp at idle is 23C


----------



## energie80

Are you guys using a contact frame?


----------



## bigfootnz

energie80 said:


> Are you guys using a contact frame?


I'm still using contact frame


----------



## OC2000

Im back to stock ILM


----------



## bigfootnz

OC2000 said:


> Im back to stock ILM


Any difference comparing to contact frame?


----------



## kunit13

about 5 min C20... 5.7/4.5/5r Velocity 2 (lapped) Using Contact frame.


----------



## Madness11

kunit13 said:


> about 5 min C20... 5.7/4.5/5r Velocity 2 (lapped) Using Contact frame.
> View attachment 2588971


SP of cpu? And what Vcore u using ?)


----------



## CptSpig

energie80 said:


> Are you guys using a contact frame?





bigfootnz said:


> I'm still using contact frame


I only use a contact frame. 24c at idle never goes above 70c even under heavy load. 13900K


----------



## faior

bigfootnz said:


> I do not think that is the problem as contact with IHS was almost perfect. In my opinion water channels are probably designed incorrect and water flow is probably insufficient.
> 
> EDIT: I've checked it and mine do not have bow like this, it is almost flat, with just bow in center but nothing like this photo


My Magnitude had this problem, too big bow on the center, had very very bad contact with CPU obviously, temps were bad. I did buy the flat coldplate for copper IHS in mind, but after installing that with stock IHS, it fixed the contact to almost perfect.


----------



## energie80

problem could be the contact frame in combination with EK concave waterblock, imagine a flat surface and a concave waterblock


----------



## Ocfailfish

Chintz said:


> Maybe the new 0808 bios is the Strix holy grail? ...I doubt it


What are your timings and voltages for 7000? Thanks.
I'll stay on bios 0806 for a few more days.


----------



## pipes

faior said:


> My Magnitude had this problem, too big bow on the center, had very very bad contact with CPU obviously, temps were bad. I did buy the flat coldplate for copper IHS in mind, but after installing that with stock IHS, it fixed the contact to almost perfect.
> 
> View attachment 2589005


I had a better contact with the lga 1200 backplate than with the lga 1700 backplate, I use el supremacy evo full nickel. It's concave? Have you try with ruler


----------



## faior

energie80 said:


> problem could be the contact frame in combination with EK concave waterblock, imagine a flat surface and a concave waterblock


This can be true, but with my CPU the contact was still very bad even with the stock mechanism, here is a picture with that:










Also wasn't it said that the problem doesn't exist anymore with the 13th gen?


----------



## motivman

faior said:


> This can be true, but with my CPU the contact was still very bad even with the stock mechanism, here is a picture with that:
> 
> View attachment 2589010
> 
> 
> Also wasn't it said that the problem doesn't exist anymore with the 13th gen?


so you are saying with magnitude, flat coldplate fixed your temps issues??? if true, I might buy magnitude again, its a sexy block for sure, lol.


----------



## OC2000

motivman said:


> so you are saying with magnitude, flat coldplate fixed your temps issues??? if true, I might buy magnitude again, its a sexy block for sure, lol.


might do the same


----------



## energie80

faior said:


> This can be true, but with my CPU the contact was still very bad even with the stock mechanism, here is a picture with that:
> 
> View attachment 2589010
> 
> 
> Also wasn't it said that the problem doesn't exist anymore with the 13th gen?


this is bad contact


----------



## faior

motivman said:


> so you are saying with magnitude, flat coldplate fixed your temps issues??? if true, I might buy magnitude again, its a sexy block for sure, lol.


Well, atleast for me definitely yes. Here is a contact with the flat plate, not perfect, but much better. Temps are ok, 5.7GHz around 1.3V, 80-88C(hottest core), 300 watts, no throttling, with stock IHS and no delid yet. Water at 27C.










Here is a video of the original cold plate which comes with the block, says more than a pic?









04ee0be2-09b7-4736-bd96-407f098a544b


Watch "04ee0be2-09b7-4736-bd96-407f098a544b" on Streamable.




streamable.com


----------



## energie80

faior said:


> Well, atleast for me definitely yes. Here is a contact with the flat plate, not perfect, but much better. Temps are ok, 5.7GHz around 1.3V, 80-88C(hottest core), 300 watts, no throttling, with stock IHS and no delid yet. Water at 27C.
> 
> View attachment 2589014
> 
> 
> Here is a video of the original cold plate which comes with the block, says more than a pic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 04ee0be2-09b7-4736-bd96-407f098a544b
> 
> 
> Watch "04ee0be2-09b7-4736-bd96-407f098a544b" on Streamable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> streamable.com


is that a magnitude? thats a good contact


----------



## faior

energie80 said:


> is that a magnitude? thats a good contact


Yeah, magnitude with flat plate. I was happy with that too.. atleast after the bad one lol.

Temps could be better though, my CPU isn't the best sample


----------



## energie80

faior said:


> Yeah, magnitude with flat plate. I was happy with that too.. atleast after the bad one lol.
> 
> Temps could be better though, my CPU isn't the best sample


does magnitude come with a flat plate by default?


----------



## faior

energie80 said:


> does magnitude come with a flat plate by default?


No, it comes with the one in the video, they say this on the site if I remember right. I think its purpose was to combat the stock IHS not being flat or bending when tightening it to the MB.


----------



## energie80

damn...im gonna give it a try with the flat plate


----------



## energie80

faior said:


> No, it comes with the one in the video, they say this on the site if I remember right. I think its purpose was to combat the stock IHS not being flat or bending when tightening it to the MB.


what is the difference betweek the normal flat and the R2000 plate?


----------



## kunit13

Madness11 said:


> SP of cpu? And what Vcore u using ?)


Don't know the SP (gig board). My Apex should be in early next week (Ill let you know). Fixed Vcore 1.335

edit: I have biscuit rating (92.8) Have no idea what the correlation is.


----------



## valzo

How's A-die overclocking on a MSI Z790I with 12900K? Should I be considering 13th gen?


----------



## motivman

newls1 said:


> Hows this look? Watercooling ram is neat
> View attachment 2586370


how are you guys getting so low latency? what version of windows please?


----------



## snootaiscool

valzo said:


> How's A-die overclocking on a MSI Z790I with 12900K? Should I be considering 13th gen?


The Edge ITX is probably the best board for DDR5 overclocking barring either Kingpins, although you'll end up being way more limited by your 12900K's memory controller.


----------



## dante`afk

OC2000 said:


> Unfortunately the 8000 didn't do any better so I was definitely at the limit of my IMC. Perhaps with the KS I'll get better results, so will keep the 8000s incase. Both were not stable at 8400, but are stable at 8200.



or the sticks just don't are that good


----------



## satinghostrider

faior said:


> Yeah, magnitude with flat plate. I was happy with that too.. atleast after the bad one lol.
> 
> Temps could be better though, my CPU isn't the best sample


Honestly how do you decide if you change the jet plate? This would be most helpful. Like use a razor blade and place it on the IHS and check if it's sitting flat on the IHS? If so, change it to the flat plate?


----------



## Dodgexander

valzo said:


> How's A-die overclocking on a MSI Z790I with 12900K? Should I be considering 13th gen?


I have this board and it worked fine XMP with the Team 7200 kit I had for a while.
I don't personally think the Alder Lake controllers are that bad, I was able to use them at 8000mhz but the issue for me was overheating.
Earlier I had an Asrock Z790i and I couldn't even get past 6400, at the time I too thought it was just the memory controller, but it was in fact the board.

One thing I will say is don't get _too carried away_ with memory overclocking if you're looking for a performance increase for gaming or light PC use. Clocking ram at 8000 instead of 6400 is not going to make a sizable difference in gaming. Especially when you factor in you can usually use lower timings at smaller frequencies.

I know it's not the point in the thread, or the aim of most people here but people are spending $$$'s to bench high with custom waterblocks and heatsinks, but in reality, are only gaining a small difference in performance in real world usage. Even if they use their PC for things like rendering the performance difference is pretty small.

I love reading the results here and seeing people push to the limit, but I don't have the money to spend and I'm waiting for the price of good kits to drop, with 8000mhz XMP ram now coming out, hopefully some cheaper A die kits won't be too far off now.


----------



## centvalny

M-die air with 0808 @ 7900c32


----------



## rs199208

centvalny said:


> M-die air with 0808 @ 7900c32
> 
> View attachment 2589119


how stable? can it do at least 1 hour of tm5/absolute or extreme? other wise still awesome! can it do aida64 just for comparisons sake?


----------



## rs199208

motivman said:


> how are you guys getting so low latency? what version of windows please?


EDIT: just clicked on the user you quoted "newls" and noticed he got banned? 
also that user posted a aida64 screenshot showing his BCLK was overclocked.
BCLK overclocking seems to cheat aida64 ns testing because of a software bug supposedly. i don't know more about that bug other than i can drop ns realy fast by bclk oc possibly without much timing changes at all.

how i easily get under 50ns in MLC and or aida64: i just disable E cores and ramp up ring to 5.0 or less.
then its just a matter of tightening the timings. only need to change a few settings to get under 50ns once the E cores and ring are changed on my 12th gen. I've never tried ramping up the ring with E cores at stock.. i have no use for E cores though.
13th gen might be different in that it may not always need E cores disabled? just ramp up the ring..
some people have posted on here that only those with stripped down windows can achieve below 50ns but i don't think that has much to do with anything other than allowing aida64 to work better not exactly test lower ns.
which is why i point to MLC because it doesn't need overall input latency to be low in order to operate well. *though MLC only works on 12th gen for now.
I've been procrastinating on my rebuild but am about to start tearing my rig down and then ill have a fresh install of 11 on a 990 pro to test ns without disabling any windows stuff in order to show how easy it is. ill start with my first 12900k then my KS after that.


----------



## Gossling

Hi! is there any MC SP analogue from other motherboard manufacturers to bin cpu?


----------



## z390e

Dodgexander said:


> I know it's not the point in the thread, or the aim of most people here but people are spending $$$'s to bench high with custom waterblocks and heatsinks, but in reality, are only gaining a small difference in performance in real world usage.


I wish that early on someone would have told me to better understand what I was comparing to.

Comparing my results against people with MO-RA and chiller while I have an AIO, is worlds apart. Just like comparing that same chiller/MO-RA setup with someone using LN2 or dry ice. Comparing different setups is pointless because they are literally worlds apart in cost, time and $ and skill. So my advice for people tuning their rigs is to make sure you are comparing apples to apples where possible.


----------



## techenth

new job new girl got no time for anything else, yet here I am. switched to team apex, 13900k, 7600CL36 20A kit. gonna meddle with it soon.


----------



## asdkj1740

for a $260usd mobo with 6 layers pcb only, this is not bad at all. timings are all "auto" thanks to the two new auto oc modes.
gigabyte has come up with the high bandwidth mode and low latency mode to compete with asus's xmp tweaked profile.
the best ddr5 oc mobo ever, with no realtime cpu vdd2 imc / vccsa / cpu txvddq to monitor in os at all. gigabyte should be the one to say for those who dare.

timings are all "auto" thanks to the two new dram auto oc modes.
















技嘉DDR5超頻太易玩了 Z790 AORUS ELITE AX二千蚊之光 - 悠二硬件Yujihw


DDR5 OC ! 上一篇關於DDR5超頻的文章好像沒什麼人看，VIEW數少得可憐。YUJIHW的傳統就是越少




yujihw.com


----------



## Dodgexander

z390e said:


> Comparing my results against people with MO-RA and chiller while I have an AIO, is worlds apart. Just like comparing that same chiller/MO-RA setup with someone using LN2 or dry ice. Comparing different setups is pointless because they are literally worlds apart in cost, time and $ and skill. So my advice for people tuning their rigs is to make sure you are comparing apples to apples where possible.


Exactly, like you I thought the same. I came here to get some ideas of what to expect when overclocking my ram but this thread has some really talented overclockers, and people with money to burn too. You cannot expect to match some of the results posted here and it's not really the best place to always come to get some idea of a starting point. It's not reasonable to expect similar results if you are comparing your results with someone with a pre-binned kit, for example.

This is just made worse by the fact DDR5 runs a lot hotter, and that A die in particular is temp sensitive.


----------



## CreasiicK

Have any of you guys bought on superbuy using these links? Adie HMCG78AGBUA081N, I'm thinking of ordering 6 or if one of you have a trustable link around that price, let me know please. thanks

superbuy link 1
superbuy link 2


----------



## tibcsi0407

sugi0lover said:


> sharing 4 slot motherboard stable 8000 cl34 oc by Doojin
> *VDD 1.46v / VDDQ 1.45v / Tx 1.4v / Mc 1.35v / SA 1.15v*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Asus Z790 Extreme 8000 CL34 OC setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2588587


I can't even boot on 133MHz. What's the secret? @sugi0lover


----------



## CENS

Z790 DARK got a new bios: 8400mt/s on g.skill xmp7800


----------



## energie80

CENS said:


> Z790 DARK got a new bios: 8400mt/s on g.skill xmp7800
> 
> View attachment 2589253


Where did you buy the z790 dark considering you are euro like me?
Not easy 😞


----------



## CENS

energie80 said:


> Where did you buy the z790 dark considering you are euro like me?
> Not easy 😞


The first few boards dropped during our live streaming event last week while I was in Taipeh at EVGA. More availabiliity early next year.


----------



## Nizzen

CENS said:


> Z790 DARK got a new bios: 8400mt/s on g.skill xmp7800
> 
> View attachment 2589253


Starting to look good 
Any hwinfo and timings?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CENS said:


> The first few boards dropped during our live streaming event last week while I was in Taipeh at EVGA. More availabiliity early next year.



Can I trade up my current z690 dark that will only get 7400 stable?


----------



## CptSpig

CreasiicK said:


> Have any of you guys bought on superbuy using these links? Adie HMCG78AGBUA081N, I'm thinking of ordering 6 or if one of you have a trustable link around that price, let me know please. thanks
> 
> superbuy link 1
> superbuy link 2


Yes, buy the sticks and wait until they get to the warehouse. Once at the warehouse use the shipping agent for best ptice and fastest ship.


----------



## ESRCJ

CENS said:


> Z790 DARK got a new bios: 8400mt/s on g.skill xmp7800
> 
> View attachment 2589253


I can't even get 7600 stable with a G.skill 7600 kit in my Z790 Dark KP. How much variation have you seen on 13900K IMCs?


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing Z790 Godlike ram oc~ (not my setup)

7800 32-45-45-45-32, 2N
Voltages: VDD/VDDQ : 1.68v, rest : Auto


----------



## bianbao.dev

sugi0lover said:


> sharing Z790 Godlike ram oc~
> 
> 7800 32-45-45-45-32, 2N
> Voltages: VDD/VDDQ : 1.68v, rest : Auto
> View attachment 2589352


why trdrd_sg/dg and twrwr_sg/dg so...loose... is that auto settings?


----------



## sugi0lover

bianbao.dev said:


> why trdrd_sg/dg and twrwr_sg/dg so...loose... is that auto settings?


The original poster didn't say about it .








쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


12월 초에 조립해놓고 램오버 안정화는 이제서야 마무리되었네요.MSI 보드들 만져보니 현재 바이오스로는 공식 스펙상 최대클럭이 안정화 마지노선인 것 같네요.DDR5 특성상 2/3차



coolenjoy.net


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> sharing Z790 Godlike ram oc~ (not my setup)
> 
> 7800 32-45-45-45-32, 2N
> Voltages: VDD/VDDQ : 1.68v, rest : Auto
> View attachment 2589352


dram voltages 1.68v why? what stick it is?


----------



## asdkj1740

sugi0lover said:


> The original poster didn't say about it .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 12월 초에 조립해놓고 램오버 안정화는 이제서야 마무리되었네요.MSI 보드들 만져보니 현재 바이오스로는 공식 스펙상 최대클럭이 안정화 마지노선인 것 같네요.DDR5 특성상 2/3차
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net


nice coolenjoy is now available for everyone again!


----------



## CENS

ESRCJ said:


> I can't even get 7600 stable with a G.skill 7600 kit in my Z790 Dark KP. How much variation have you seen on 13900K IMCs?


unfortunately yes, on my other CPU same setup only works 8200mt/s. Tight timings, too.


----------



## Silent Scone

bianbao.dev said:


> why trdrd_sg/dg and twrwr_sg/dg so...loose... is that auto settings?


Some vendors run these looser.


----------



## CENS

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Can I trade up my current z690 dark that will only get 7400 stable?


That could have many causes, memory, IMC etc.. however I highly recommend updating to the latest 2.05 for Z690 DARK. This release works amazing. Example by Corner Jack:


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CENS said:


> That could have many causes, memory, IMC etc.. however I highly recommend updating to the latest 2.05 for Z690 DARK. This release works amazing. Example by Corner Jack:
> 
> View attachment 2589374



I am on it and this is as far as this motherboard will let me go unfortunately. Three CPUs and three sets of memory and this is the best I've grabbed up so far. G Skill 7800 at 7400 at 1.36 volts. CPU can be adjusted up a little more but yeah, this motherboard does not want to go up to 8500MHz like yours unfortunately.










When I get home from work. I will set my rtl's to be even.


----------



## CENS

you might want to try higher volts. For my result I've used 1.6v VDD. 1.36v won't get you 8000++

Other voltages I can recommend to MAX out your memory OC with *G.Skill A-Die* on Z790 DARK (give it a try on Z690 DARK with bios 2.05 too, usually you will see -100 to 200mhz on the mem vs. Z790 DARK)

1.58-1.62v DRAM VDD (some kits like lower / higher)
1.45v DRAM VDDQ (varies by kit, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv above CPU VDDQ)

SA 1.3v (enough to pass even 8800mhz in GB3)
CPU VDDQ 1.4v (varies by CPU, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv below DRAM VDDQ)
CPU VDD2 1.66v (keep 60-90mv above DRAM VDD)

this guideline is only partly compatible with green OEM sticks.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CENS said:


> you might want to try higher volts. For my result I've used 1.6v VDD. 1.36v won't get you 8000++
> 
> Other voltages I can recommend to MAX out your memory OC with *G.Skill A-Die* on Z790 DARK (give it a try on Z690 DARK with bios 2.05 too, usually you will see -100 to 200mhz on the mem vs. Z790 DARK)
> 
> 1.58-1.62v DRAM VDD (some kits like lower / higher)
> 1.45v DRAM VDDQ (varies by kit, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv above CPU VDDQ)
> 
> SA 1.3v (enough to pass even 8800mhz in GB3)
> CPU VDDQ 1.4v (varies by CPU, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv below DRAM VDDQ)
> CPU VDD2 1.66v (keep 60-90mv above DRAM VDD)
> 
> this guideline is only partly compatible with green OEM sticks.



The memory kit is rated for 1.45v at 7800. It does not like the voltage being above where it is now for the frquency you see there. 

Little up voltage wise and it's unstable. Little down same. I thought that I figured out how to get higher speeds with my memory when I found that sweet spot voltage wise. I chased the voltage up to the next level for 7600 and it won't stabilize.


I've tried everything. I'll keep trying but that's my new sweet stable spot for now. I ran that test last night after fine tuning it at 7400 all day yesterday. The cpu is a good one this time around and the memory seems good as well. 

I can boot into windows 8000, maybe more honestly never tried higher but errors galore with tm5.


----------



## CENS

What bios are you on? use 2.05
give my voltages a try. Need to set them manually.
btw in case you touched it, keep AUX input at 1.8v raise it after you're done (if needed). I've seen it interfere with memory.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CENS said:


> What bios are you on? use 2.05
> give my voltages a try. Need to set them manually.
> btw in case you touched it, keep AUX input at 1.8v raise it after you're done (if needed). I've seen it interfere with memory.


I'm on 2.05. I appreciate your help. Best info I've seen handed out yet. I bookmarked your post so I can pull it back up when I get home tonight. 

How can you tell if you need more aux voltage?


----------



## X909

Hey guys, I think I have seen here a post some days ago, where discussion was about a alternative Karhu GUI with MB/s shown. I can find it anymore, maybe it was in another thread. If someone has a link to that software, please help me out  Thanks.

Btw. 7600 on Strix-F with 6600 G.Skills in evaluation here


----------



## CENS

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I'm on 2.05. I appreciate your help. Best info I've seen handed out yet. I bookmarked your post so I can pull it back up when I get home tonight.
> 
> How can you tell if you need more aux voltage?


Thank you, I appreciate it. 

Input/ Aux might help CPU core stability in some edge cases slightly. Depends on the CPU. I can usually keep it at 1.8v for daily operation.


----------



## mattxx88

CENS said:


> you might want to try higher volts. For my result I've used 1.6v VDD. 1.36v won't get you 8000++
> 
> Other voltages I can recommend to MAX out your memory OC with *G.Skill A-Die* on Z790 DARK (give it a try on Z690 DARK with bios 2.05 too, usually you will see -100 to 200mhz on the mem vs. Z790 DARK)
> 
> 1.58-1.62v DRAM VDD (some kits like lower / higher)
> 1.45v DRAM VDDQ (varies by kit, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv above CPU VDDQ)
> 
> SA 1.3v (enough to pass even 8800mhz in GB3)
> *CPU VDDQ 1.4v (varies by CPU, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv below DRAM VDDQ)
> CPU VDD2 1.66v (keep 60-90mv above DRAM VDD)*
> 
> this guideline is only partly compatible with green OEM sticks.


cpu vdd2 on dark is the cpu memory controller?


----------



## rent0n

CENS said:


> What bios are you on? use 2.05
> give my voltages a try. Need to set them manually.
> btw in case you touched it, keep AUX input at 1.8v raise it after you're done (if needed). I've seen it interfere with memory.


It would be great if the temperature readings on 2.05 were correct. Unfortunately, they are not - min core temps reported as low as 10*C on ~20*C water temp. Many people have the issue, it’s similar on 2.03. 2.04 is the only bios that fixed it, but it has the Ring Ratio bug. Also, for whatever reason CPU-Z and CoreTemp don’t report the VCore properly on all three versions with VCore override and LLC -75%. ME Firmware updated, all TVB options disabled, etc. doesn’t help at all. VR Vout is the only way to check which I know is the right parameter to check, but CPU-Z showing +~50-100mV under load is strange.

To not be completely off on the DDR5 topic - the 690 KP can daily anywhere between 8000-8400 according to cpu/sticks combo, so we really hope the 790 KP does way better, because we have been waiting on BIOS updates after 2.03 for 1.5 months and expect all the manpower concentrated on the 790 KP to pay off in the end. 

P.S. The PMIC Turbo settings seem to not be as crucial as with M-Die?


----------



## CENS

Core temp reading depends on cpu sensor, they are calibrated to read accurately for higher temps.
Can't recommend llc -75% this will overshoot, and that's what you're seeing. Tools not reading vcore correctly is a tool issue. Try Eleet software, that reads it fine. I prefere VR Vout across different brands
8000-8200 is really great on Z690 DARK for daily. Expect ~100-200mhz more on Z790 DARK + tighter timings. We are already hitting IMC and memory limits hard though, no bios magic can fix that. On LN2 we are pushing 9000++ when IMC limits are lifted.

can leave pmic turbo mode at Auto now 

actually 2.05 bios for Z690 DARK requires slightly less vcore.


----------



## rent0n

CENS said:


> Core temp reading depends on cpu sensor, they are calibrated to read accurately for higher temps.
> Can't recommend llc -75% this will overshoot, and that's what you're seeing. Tools not reading vcore correctly is a tool issue. Try Eleet software, that reads it fine. I prefere VR Vout across different brands
> 8000-8200 is really great on Z690 DARK for daily. Expect ~100-200mhz more on Z790 DARK + tighter timings. We are already hitting IMC and memory limits hard though, no bios magic can fix that. On LN2 we are pushing 9000++ when IMC limits are lifted.
> 
> can leave pmic turbo mode at Auto now


Thank you for the response 

CoreTemp, HWiNfO, Eleet - they all show me 11-12*C idle core temps and wrong voltages. Except for the VR Vout section of HWiNFO as mentioned. And no, the part with the temps is not a software bug, because on 2.04 I‘m getting correct temp readings.


----------



## CENS

rent0n said:


> Thank you for the response
> 
> CoreTemp, HWiNfO, Eleet - they all show me 11-12*C idle core temps and wrong voltages. Except for the VR Vout section of HWiNFO as mentioned. And no, the part with the temps is not a software bug, because on 2.04 I‘m getting correct temp readings.


2.04 was the buggy one that required more vcore. I don't see these low idle C on my side.


----------



## warbucks

CreasiicK said:


> Have any of you guys bought on superbuy using these links? Adie HMCG78AGBUA081N, I'm thinking of ordering 6 or if one of you have a trustable link around that price, let me know please. thanks
> 
> superbuy link 1
> superbuy link 2


I ordered two sticks green oem A-die from Superbuy. They're in my rig right now running at 8200CL36 and have some more room to go higher. I have them watercooled.


----------



## CptSpig

CreasiicK said:


> Have any of you guys bought on superbuy using these links? Adie HMCG78AGBUA081N, I'm thinking of ordering 6 or if one of you have a trustable link around that price, let me know please. thanks
> 
> superbuy link 1
> superbuy link 2


I purchased mine from Superbuy. Great experience. Recommended.


----------



## CptSpig

CENS said:


> 2.04 was the buggy one that required more vcore. I don't see these low idle C on my side.


Did you find a good CPU for you competition?


----------



## CENS

nope, that event is already over :/


----------



## Dinnzy

Anyone get 7800 g skill kit stable on a unify x lol. I assumed xmp would fail, would appreciate some guidance. My KS could boot 8000 with my gskill 6400 a die kit. And the same kit I could only bolt 7600 with my 13900k so I’m aware it could be the IMC;p


----------



## tibcsi0407

Dinnzy said:


> Anyone get 7800 g skill kit stable on a unify x lol. I assumed xmp would fail, would appreciate some guidance. My KS could boot 8000 with my gskill 6400 a die kit. And the same kit I could only bolt 7600 with my 13900k so I’m aware it could be the IMC;p


Do you have contactframe installed?


----------



## Dinnzy

tibcsi0407 said:


> Do you have contactframe installed?


Yes ! I was thinking the same thing. I did get 7600 to boot. I have a broken leg or is reset it right now ;p


----------



## Madness11

Guys 1.35 Sa it's not safe for ddr5 7800??


----------



## energie80

Madness11 said:


> Guys 1.35 Sa it's not safe for ddr5 7800??


Could be high


----------



## Nizzen

Madness11 said:


> Guys 1.35 Sa it's not safe for ddr5 7800??


1.35 SA isn't needed, but it is safe....


----------



## CptSpig

Nizzen said:


> 1.35 SA isn't needed, but it is safe....


----------



## Carillo

Madness11 said:


> Guys 1.35 Sa it's not safe for ddr5 7800??


Try 1.15


----------



## YoungChris

Agent-A01 said:


> View attachment 2588735
> 
> 
> Copper Byski MRC-X heatsinks installed. These are easily 3-4x heavier than stock.


Byski has copper sinks now? Do you have a link?


----------



## Dinnzy

So my Mount does look pretty uneven, hopefully this will fix it. My 2 previous 12900k chips were lapped and I had very good contact, hopefully the IHS isn’t the problem ;p


----------



## Dinnzy

^^^


----------



## bscool

X909 said:


> Hey guys, I think I have seen here a post some days ago, where discussion was about a alternative Karhu GUI with MB/s shown. I can find it anymore, maybe it was in another thread. If someone has a link to that software, please help me out  Thanks.
> 
> Btw. 7600 on Strix-F with 6600 G.Skills in evaluation here


@snakeeyes111 posted about it on luxx. I couldnt get it to work when I tried it. If anyone gets it working post back.









GitHub - LeagueRaINi/KGuiV2: A custom gui for karhu


A custom gui for karhu. Contribute to LeagueRaINi/KGuiV2 development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## adolf512

I made some progress, raising VDD2 allowed me to raise other voltages to get the memory stable at 6436 at least (trying higher)










CPU VDD2: 1.4
CPU VDDQ: 1.26
CPU SA: 1.2

I got error in N32 when i ran y-cruncher at 6487 (took over an our of stability testing) so i reduced to 6464 for now. 

I only bothered to try tweaking memory again since msi may have updated the bios version available to download, it's now named A30 instead of A32, probably just a different name though.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Dinnzy said:


> Yes ! I was thinking the same thing. I did get 7600 to boot. I have a broken leg or is reset it right now ;p


I would try it with the original ILM. Raptor is more pressure sensitive than Alder was.


----------



## YoungChris

sugi0lover said:


> Awesome GB run by Doojin using Mora 420(not ln2 or any extreme cooling)
> *Cooling Mora420
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-13900KF processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2585054
> *


Is this still the only 17k gb3 mem score without chiller or more extreme cooling?


----------



## rs199208

Dinnzy said:


> ^^^


that contact doesn't look very good to me. i'm speaking just of ihs cooling.
i like the fact you use so much paste lol! it helps to pinpoint contact issues..
though that still seems an excessive amount even to me lol!
i would try without frame.
using a frame can easily mess up the pin contact pressures thus hurting memory performance.
i think one or two people on this thread recently got 7600 and or 7800 stable on unix with a KS.
i'm not going to try that frame on my first reinstall, so that i can tell if there are memory problems once i do use my frame afterwards.

use very light touch on the ilm screws they shouldn't be tight. for instance start at top left screw only turning a little then the same amount of turn on the bottom left then bottom right then top right then back to top left and so on...


----------



## Madness11

What Sa I can use for Ring 4.9 and 7800 ??
Z790 apex


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

snootaiscool said:


> The Edge ITX is probably the best board for DDR5 overclocking barring either Kingpins, although you'll end up being way more limited by your 12900K's memory controller.


 There is nothing special for Edge ITX other then 12 layer 2 stick board. Bios support compared to Tachyon,Apex,KPE,Unify-X is worse. 

On positive side availability of Edge ITX is much better then those above


----------



## satinghostrider

Just for those interested in pad thickness setup for Bitspower DDR5 kit.

I had to tear down my heatsink twice because it was not sitting centre with the heatsink.

I figured out the optimal thickness so that under clamping pressure, the sticks do not slant.

The most important pad for this setup is the empty side of the stick. There is a PMIC trace layout and you need to put a 1.5mm thick pad around 2cmx1.3cm (Be careful it does not overlap with the lower part of the heatsink which sits higher or you will have problems clamping). If you do not have back support on the PMIC with enough thickness, you will end up slanting the modules under pressure so this PMIC pad levels the entire stick once you start to tighten it down.

Just by adding the PMIC thermal pad on the rear with 1.5mm thickness allowed me to drop 3 degrees more on SPD Hub temps. I believe there is better pressure on the PMIC on the front due to this back support. The entire setup now is solid as a rock and does not wiggle or move despite repeated installing and removing of the rams.

Summary of what I used :

RAM Kit - G.Skill 7800C36 Kit

Front RAM chips - 1.0mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
Front PMIC chip - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.5cm)

Rear Ram Chips (Empty) - 0.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
Rear PMIC traceout - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.3cm)

Also, I pasted some thermal paste just above the green line as outlined below for better thermal transfer. Hope this helps you guys out if you are using the same kit.


----------



## OC2000

satinghostrider said:


> Just for those interested in pad thickness setup for Bitspower DDR5 kit.
> 
> I had to tear down my heatsink twice because it was not sitting centre with the heatsink.
> 
> I figured out the optimal thickness so that under clamping pressure, the sticks do not slant.
> 
> The most important pad for this setup is the empty side of the stick. There is a PMIC trace layout and you need to put a 1.5mm thick pad around 2cmx1.3cm (Be careful it does not overlap with the lower part of the heatsink which sits higher or you will have problems clamping). If you do not have back support on the PMIC with enough thickness, you will end up slanting the modules under pressure so this PMIC pad levels the entire stick once you start to tighten it down.
> 
> Just by adding the PMIC thermal pad on the rear with 1.5mm thickness allowed me to drop 3 degrees more on SPD Hub temps. I believe there is better pressure on the PMIC on the front due to this back support. The entire setup now is solid as a rock and does not wiggle or move despite repeated installing and removing of the rams.
> 
> Summary of what I used :
> 
> RAM Kit - G.Skill 7800C36 Kit
> 
> Front RAM chips - 1.0mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Front PMIC chip - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.5cm)
> 
> Rear Ram Chips (Empty) - 0.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Rear PMIC traceout - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.3cm)
> 
> Also, I pasted some thermal paste just above the green line as outlined below for better thermal transfer. Hope this helps you guys out if you are using the same kit.
> View attachment 2589545
> 
> View attachment 2589548
> 
> View attachment 2589549
> 
> View attachment 2589547


Are you also pasting the top of the Heatsinks for the water block contact?


----------



## satinghostrider

OC2000 said:


> Are you also pasting the top of the Heatsinks for the water block contact?


I will probably use paste I know some people have used pads but I really do not know if the difference is big between using either of them. So I will just use paste as my previous DDR4 setup on EK Monarchs worked very well with paste.


----------



## OC2000

satinghostrider said:


> I will probably use paste I know some people have used pads but I really do not know if the difference is big between using either of them. So I will just use paste as my previous DDR4 setup on EK Monarchs worked very well with paste.


I'll follow your setup as I can see my sticks slanting a bit. Im thinking this may even be causing this random instability im seeing (I hope) when one day the sticks will handle tight settings and the next refuse to work with it.


----------



## satinghostrider

OC2000 said:


> I'll follow your setup as I can see my sticks slanting a bit. Im thinking this may even be causing this random instability im seeing (I hope) when one day the sticks will handle tight settings and the next refuse to work with it.


I am not sure if that would affect ram stability just make sure your rams are fully seated properly.
Random instability can be many factors including the use of contact frame. Like someone mentioned, RL is alot more pressure sensitive to high clocked memories. It's purely luck on how the contact frame is tightened down. If you are using contact frame, try using the stock ILM on a bench with your RAM kit and see if you have the same random instability.


----------



## Madness11

Guys anyone , for 7800 , What Sa normal for daily use???


----------



## OC2000

satinghostrider said:


> I am not sure if that would affect ram stability just make sure your rams are fully seated properly.
> Random instability can be many factors including the use of contact frame. Like someone mentioned, RL is alot more pressure sensitive to high clocked memories. It's purely luck on how the contact frame is tightened down. If you are using contact frame, try using the stock ILM on a bench with your RAM kit and see if you have the same random instability.


I removed the contact frame a few days ago with no difference unfortunately. I was using the Thermalright one which is easier to seat right. It can't hurt to try though. I'll also swap the ram around to see if the different stick order helps too.


----------



## satinghostrider

OC2000 said:


> I removed the contact frame a few days ago with no difference unfortunately. Im using was using the Thermalright one which is easier to seat right.


Then it could just either boil down to your CPU IMC or your board or collectively both.


----------



## rs199208

satinghostrider said:


> Just for those interested in pad thickness setup for Bitspower DDR5 kit.
> 
> I had to tear down my heatsink twice because it was not sitting centre with the heatsink.
> 
> I figured out the optimal thickness so that under clamping pressure, the sticks do not slant.
> 
> The most important pad for this setup is the empty side of the stick. There is a PMIC trace layout and you need to put a 1.5mm thick pad around 2cmx1.3cm (Be careful it does not overlap with the lower part of the heatsink which sits higher or you will have problems clamping). If you do not have back support on the PMIC with enough thickness, you will end up slanting the modules under pressure so this PMIC pad levels the entire stick once you start to tighten it down.
> 
> Just by adding the PMIC thermal pad on the rear with 1.5mm thickness allowed me to drop 3 degrees more on SPD Hub temps. I believe there is better pressure on the PMIC on the front due to this back support. The entire setup now is solid as a rock and does not wiggle or move despite repeated installing and removing of the rams.
> 
> Summary of what I used :
> 
> RAM Kit - G.Skill 7800C36 Kit
> 
> Front RAM chips - 1.0mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Front PMIC chip - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.5cm)
> 
> Rear Ram Chips (Empty) - 0.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Rear PMIC traceout - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.3cm)
> 
> Also, I pasted some thermal paste just above the green line as outlined below for better thermal transfer. Hope this helps you guys out if you are using the same kit.
> View attachment 2589545
> 
> View attachment 2589548
> 
> View attachment 2589549
> 
> View attachment 2589547


thanks!

i thought Gelid extreme were too hard for this application?
i also thought the pmic needed the softest pads?

i have Gelid ultimate 120x20x1.0mm and 120x20x.5mm
a bunch of minus pad 8 120x20x1.0mm
a bunch of bitspower 1.0mm that came with the 4 dimm kit
and one bitspower .5mm
i did almost get some 1.5mm. 
i figured i had enough the experiment with for now.

now, ill look for some 1.5mm and or maybe try adding .5mm to some 1mm since its just to help the front contact?


----------



## satinghostrider

rs199208 said:


> thanks!
> 
> i thought Gelid extreme were too hard for this application?
> i also thought the pmic needed the softest pads?
> 
> i have Gelid ultimate 120x20x1.0mm and 120x20x.5mm
> a bunch of minus pad 8 120x20x1.0mm
> a bunch of bitspower 1.0mm that came with the 4 dimm kit
> and one bitspower .5mm
> i did almost get some 1.5mm.
> i figured i had enough the experiment with for now.
> 
> now, ill look for some 1.5mm and or maybe try adding .5mm to some 1mm since its just to help the front contact?


Gelid Ultimates are the one to avoid for this kind of application. The Extremes are nice and a little squishy.
I used only Gelid Extremes for the entire application of this kit and it works very well. You can see that hardness of the pads by comparing the Gelid Extreme and Gelid Ultimate shore scale. The Extreme is softer. That is why I do not recommend the Ultimates. Same reason people had issues with GPU Die to block contact when pasting the Ultimates on VRAMs though this is much less complicated, you still would want some degree of squishyness to allow everything to have some room to stretch slightly under clamping pressure. I am also wary of how sensitive the PMIC is and try not to introduce more pressure than necessary.


----------



## rs199208

satinghostrider said:


> Gelid Ultimates are the one to avoid for this kind of application. The Extremes are nice and a little squishy.
> I used only Gelid Extremes for the entire application of this kit and it works very well. You can see that hardness of the pads by comparing the Gelid Extreme and Gelid Ultimate shore scale. The Extreme is softer. That is why I do not recommend the Ultimates. Same reason people had issues with GPU Die to block contact when pasting the Ultimates on VRAMs though this is much less complicated, you still would want some degree of squishyness to allow everything to have some room to stretch slightly under clamping pressure. I am also wary of how sensitive the PMIC is and try not to introduce more pressure than necessary.


oh.. i guess ill be re ordering then. thanks again!
one more question: 
will adding a dab of paste on each IC under the pad help or hurt transfer of heat?


----------



## OC2000

This is my latest stable mem settings. Im not sure if the CPU VDD or VDDQ are setup correctly.



It could be the IMC as its only an MC SP of 72, hopefully the KS will have better binned MC's.

TWCL refuses to go below 34
TRas used to work at 34, but now needs 82
8200 CL34 used to be stable but isn't anymore.

With 8200 CL34 I used 1.6V /1.58 for the Ram and CPU VDDQ 1.32 / IMC 1.45


----------



## satinghostrider

rs199208 said:


> oh.. i guess ill be re ordering then. thanks again!
> one more question:
> will adding a dab of paste on each IC under the pad help or hurt transfer of heat?


I tried it on the first two attempts and did not like how it hardened so much so I totally did not use any paste on the IC/PMIC or anything on the PCB for the current setup.
The only paste right now is just above the green line where both heatsinks make love.

I also dropped 3 degrees with the current setup though it could be a mix of the sticks sitting straight and better pressure on the PMIC and also because it has better heat transfer now without the hardened thermal paste. I cannot tell you which is which but the fact I dropped another 3 degrees over the last 2 setups, I think I am in the right direction. I wasted alot of thermal pads and paste because of this I am done tearing it down anymore. Also, the Bitspower screws are very easy to strip as careful as you are. I think it is a good idea to keep some spares of these screws. I will be emailing Bitspower to see if they can send me some spare screws. Good to have some backup as it does not look like these screws are off the shelf kinda stuff.


----------



## rs199208

satinghostrider said:


> I tried it on the first two attempts and did not like how it hardened so much so I totally did not use any paste on the IC/PMIC or anything on the PCB.
> The only paste right now is just above the green line where both heatsinks make love.
> 
> I also dropped 3 degrees with the current setup though it could be a mix of the sticks sitting straight and better pressure on the PMIC and also because it has better heat transfer now without the hardened thermal paste. I cannot tell you which is which but the fact I dropped another 3 degrees over the last 2 setups, I think I am in the right direction. I wasted alot of thermal pads and paste because of this I am done tearing it down anymore. Also, the Bitspower screws are very easy to strip as careful as you are. I think it is a good idea to keep some spares of these screws. I will be emailing Bitspower to see if they can send me some spare screws. Good to have some backup as it does not look like these screws are off the shelf kinda stuff.


yeah, that's why i got the 4 dimm kit for the extra parts and screws. i also want to see if the bigger block will help or just make it easier. those screws are too soft!


----------



## satinghostrider

rs199208 said:


> yeah, that's why i got the 4 dimm kit for the extra parts and screws. i also want to see if the bigger block will help or just make it easier. those screws are too soft!


The problem is the screw hole is too small/shallow making it easy to strip.
I remembered the EKWB Monarchs had much bigger allen key size/depth and I had no issues with the screw heads getting stripped on those.


----------



## OC2000

Have just done some extensive testing between the TG 7200 and G.Skill 8000 and the TG 7200 is a much better set able to clock higher with tighter timings. Returning the 8000.


----------



## satinghostrider

OC2000 said:


> Have just done some extensive testing between the TG 7200 and G.Skill 8000 and the TG 7200 is a much better set able to clock higher with tighter timings. Returning the 8000.


Don't know if it's as blessing I ordered the 7800c36 instead of the 8000c38. I had both available in my cart and didn't think the 8000c38 was worth much more over the 7800c36. I've yet to test mine throughout though.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CENS said:


> Don't know if it's as blessing I ordered the 7800c36 instead of the 8000c38. I had both available in my cart and didn't think the 8000c38 was worth much more over the 7800c36. I've yet to test mine throughout though.


Tell me what you end up with voltage and settings wise if you could please. I managed to get 7600 stable last night finally playing with voltages for the memory. They seem so sensitive to the perfectly right voltage settings. Started working on 7800 and it was getting late.


----------



## satinghostrider

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Tell me what you end up with voltage and settings wise if you could please. I managed to get 7600 stable last night finally playing with voltages for the memory. They seem so sensitive to the perfectly right voltage settings. Started working on 7800 and it was getting late.


What kit are you using?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

satinghostrider said:


> What kit are you using?


Gskill 7800


----------



## satinghostrider

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Gskill 7800


Ok cool same kit as mine.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

satinghostrider said:


> Ok cool same kit as mine.


Yeah I locked in 7400 first at 1.365v. I bumped that up to 1.42v for 7600. I was hovering around 1.47 for 7800 last night but still getting it stable voltage wise when I went to bed.


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> Just for those interested in pad thickness setup for Bitspower DDR5 kit.
> 
> I had to tear down my heatsink twice because it was not sitting centre with the heatsink.
> 
> I figured out the optimal thickness so that under clamping pressure, the sticks do not slant.
> 
> The most important pad for this setup is the empty side of the stick. There is a PMIC trace layout and you need to put a 1.5mm thick pad around 2cmx1.3cm (Be careful it does not overlap with the lower part of the heatsink which sits higher or you will have problems clamping). If you do not have back support on the PMIC with enough thickness, you will end up slanting the modules under pressure so this PMIC pad levels the entire stick once you start to tighten it down.
> 
> Just by adding the PMIC thermal pad on the rear with 1.5mm thickness allowed me to drop 3 degrees more on SPD Hub temps. I believe there is better pressure on the PMIC on the front due to this back support. The entire setup now is solid as a rock and does not wiggle or move despite repeated installing and removing of the rams.
> 
> Summary of what I used :
> 
> RAM Kit - G.Skill 7800C36 Kit
> 
> Front RAM chips - 1.0mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Front PMIC chip - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.5cm)
> 
> Rear Ram Chips (Empty) - 0.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Rear PMIC traceout - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.3cm)
> 
> Also, I pasted some thermal paste just above the green line as outlined below for better thermal transfer. Hope this helps you guys out if you are using the same kit.
> View attachment 2589545
> 
> View attachment 2589548
> 
> View attachment 2589549
> 
> View attachment 2589547


Very nice! I got the same kit sitting here just want a set of 8000 a-die ram so I can use it. Can't be bothered using it on my m-die. Maybe I should just order the 7800 kit... keep me posted on your OC's with it! 

Guessing 1mm is better than 0.5 mm for the actual ic's?

Did you manage to get before-after temps on with the heat spreaders on air and then with them on water as well vs stock?


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> Very nice! I got the same kit sitting here just want a set of 8000 a-die ram so I can use it. Can't be bothered using it on my m-die.
> 
> Guessing 1mm is better than 0.5 mm for the actual ic's?
> 
> Did you manage to get before-after temps on with the heat spreaders on air and then with them on water as well vs stock?


Well 1mm on ICs and 1.5mm on PMIC with back 1.5mm PMIC support and 0.5mm back blank NANDs seems to give me the best clamping force. Some sticks may also be lower pcb thickness but this works for Gskill kits so far. I mean you can go with 0.5mm ICs and 1mm PMIC but then I'm not sure how that would fare as I've not tried it based on what I observed the current config seems the best for me.


----------



## OC2000

satinghostrider said:


> Just for those interested in pad thickness setup for Bitspower DDR5 kit.
> 
> I had to tear down my heatsink twice because it was not sitting centre with the heatsink.
> 
> I figured out the optimal thickness so that under clamping pressure, the sticks do not slant.
> 
> The most important pad for this setup is the empty side of the stick. There is a PMIC trace layout and you need to put a 1.5mm thick pad around 2cmx1.3cm (Be careful it does not overlap with the lower part of the heatsink which sits higher or you will have problems clamping). If you do not have back support on the PMIC with enough thickness, you will end up slanting the modules under pressure so this PMIC pad levels the entire stick once you start to tighten it down.
> 
> Just by adding the PMIC thermal pad on the rear with 1.5mm thickness allowed me to drop 3 degrees more on SPD Hub temps. I believe there is better pressure on the PMIC on the front due to this back support. The entire setup now is solid as a rock and does not wiggle or move despite repeated installing and removing of the rams.
> 
> Summary of what I used :
> 
> RAM Kit - G.Skill 7800C36 Kit
> 
> Front RAM chips - 1.0mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Front PMIC chip - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.5cm)
> 
> Rear Ram Chips (Empty) - 0.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (4.5cm x 1.0cm)
> Rear PMIC traceout - 1.5mm Gelid Extreme Thermal Pad (2cm x 1.3cm)
> 
> Also, I pasted some thermal paste just above the green line as outlined below for better thermal transfer. Hope this helps you guys out if you are using the same kit.
> View attachment 2589545
> 
> View attachment 2589548
> 
> View attachment 2589549
> 
> View attachment 2589547


Applying your thermal pad technique reduced my Delta from 7 to 3.5C!


----------



## satinghostrider

OC2000 said:


> Applying your thermal pad technique reduced my Delta from 7 to 3.5C!


That's great! It reconfirms my testing with this procedure also gained me another 3 degrees over my last 2 setups. Enjoy!


----------



## OC2000

normally it would go straight to 29C and hover around 30 - 31 after 10 mins


----------



## satinghostrider

OC2000 said:


> normally it would go straight to 29C and hover around 30 - 31 after 10 mins


This was my exact situation on the previous setups. The current one which you are using shows my idle at 26 degrees SPD hub temps and it doesn't budge. Bear in mind my ambients are higher than yours in this part of the world. The last 2 setups were already at 29 degrees SPD hub temps creeping to 30 when I opened up hwinfo. Guess this is the correct delta everyone should target when installing this kit. 👍


----------



## owikh84

13900KF SP106 (P118/E83), MC SP84 - P55/E43/R45
MSI Z690I UNIFY | BIOS 1.91
Sk-Hynix HMCG78AGBUA081N BA (Hynix A-Die) + 2x Noctua A6x25 + Bitspower Heatsinks
Ambient: 30C

*2x16GB DDR5-8000 36-48-48-52-2T
VDD/VDDQ/TX VDDQ 1.5V | SA 1.25v | MC 1.45V*


----------



## acoustic

adolf512 said:


> I made some progress, raising VDD2 allowed me to raise other voltages to get the memory stable at 6436 at least (trying higher)
> 
> View attachment 2589474
> 
> 
> CPU VDD2: 1.4
> CPU VDDQ: 1.26
> CPU SA: 1.2
> 
> I got error in N32 when i ran y-cruncher at 6487 (took over an our of stability testing) so i reduced to 6464 for now.
> 
> I only bothered to try tweaking memory again since msi may have updated the bios version available to download, it's now named A30 instead of A32, probably just a different name though.


Check the build-date. Listed on the website, official releases are typically named "Ax" with no second number. BETA BIOS releases will have a second number. It gets weird though, because the "A3" release on the website, when downloaded, will be named "A30" as an actual file.

Regardless, best way to verify what is newer, is to check the build-date in M-FLASH.


----------



## adolf512

acoustic said:


> Check the build-date. Listed on the website, official releases are typically named "Ax" with no second number. BETA BIOS releases will have a second number. It gets weird though, because the "A3" release on the website, when downloaded, will be named "A30" as an actual file.
> 
> Regardless, best way to verify what is newer, is to check the build-date in M-FLASH.


A30 has the newer build-date so A32 must have been a beta bios no longer available on their website.


----------



## Gsen999

Maybe a bit off topic.. Can somebody help me with z690 tachyon what sort of mem clock speed i can expect?


----------



## Dinnzy

So once I threw my KS in I tried to get the new G skill 7800 kit stable with a large plethora of options including memory try or and lots of voltage tweaking high and low. No luck. Can only boot 7600.

yolod it and put my a die g skill 6400 kit and look at that… boots 7800. Do you think this is a lucky bin / combo with the ks? The 13900k was giving me trouble booting this high with the 6400 kit however I still think it could be a mounting pressure issue. I’m onA unify x


----------



## energie80

no bios support to me


----------



## rulik006

finally MIcron offers DDR5-5600 sticks. This is unbelievable! 2 years after release, they did it!
anyone want to try them? 
Crucial 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR5-5600 UDIMM | CT2K16G56C46U5 | Crucial.com


----------



## bscool

rulik006 said:


> finally MIcron offers DDR5-5600 sticks. This is unbelievable! 2 years after release, they did it!
> anyone want to try them?
> Crucial 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR5-5600 UDIMM | CT2K16G56C46U5 | Crucial.com


@skullbringer Has some coming and will be testing them.


----------



## bhav

Bringing up crucial reminds me that I emailed them some time ago to ask why they discontinued their DDR4 b die for their rather feeble DDR5 attempts.

No reply, they know they messed up.

They release 5600 and I just got my micron DDR4 to 5400. Wow, so much faster! 🤣


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CENS said:


> you might want to try higher volts. For my result I've used 1.6v VDD. 1.36v won't get you 8000++
> 
> Other voltages I can recommend to MAX out your memory OC with *G.Skill A-Die* on Z790 DARK (give it a try on Z690 DARK with bios 2.05 too, usually you will see -100 to 200mhz on the mem vs. Z790 DARK)
> 
> 1.58-1.62v DRAM VDD (some kits like lower / higher)
> 1.45v DRAM VDDQ (varies by kit, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv above CPU VDDQ)
> 
> SA 1.3v (enough to pass even 8800mhz in GB3)
> CPU VDDQ 1.4v (varies by CPU, need to test with more or less generally keep 50-60mv below DRAM VDDQ)
> CPU VDD2 1.66v (keep 60-90mv above DRAM VDD)
> 
> this guideline is only partly compatible with green OEM sticks.



You're a genuinely helpful person ty so much. Just passed at 7800 for a change. I know it's not intense testing yet but it's stable through this at least now so I'm very close.












Played warzone for a while with my brothers and won one, after adjusting voltages tiny smudge vcore up .010v and memory down .010v locked and saved as a profile. Now I'm going after what I want which is this.


----------



## rs199208

EVGA Z790 Dark now available to buy. did it just go live today? I'm not sure i want it anymore.


----------



## YoungChris

Very 


OC2000 said:


> Applying your thermal pad technique reduced my Delta from 7 to 3.5C!
> Very interesting!


----------



## asdkj1740

how to get this version of memtest???


----------



## ESRCJ

rs199208 said:


> EVGA Z790 Dark now available to buy. did it just go live today? I'm not sure i want it anymore.


It was in stock for 20 minutes a few weeks ago. I got one and it can't even do 7% at 7800 in Ramtest, whereas the same CPU, same memory kit, and same voltages and timings can go much longer on my Z790 Maximus Extreme. This was just my sample, but I was surprised to see how quickly it errored.


----------



## rulik006

Samsung announced new DDR5 chip 12nm 16gbit E-die



> Leveraging the latest DDR5 standard, Samsung’s 12nm-class DRAM will help unlock speeds of up to 7.2 gigabits per second (Gbps).


----------



## Nizzen

rulik006 said:


> Samsung announced new DDR5 chip 12nm 16gbit E-die


Finally some samsung news 
Can't wait to overclock it to hell and back 🤓🥳😎


----------



## warbucks

Nizzen said:


> Finally some samsung news
> Can't wait to overclock it to hell and back 🤓🥳😎


Ohhhhh, hopefully this new chip is spicy


----------



## bhav

Nizzen said:


> Finally some samsung news
> Can't wait to overclock it to hell and back 🤓🥳😎


Considering the joke that was Samsung A die 16nm DDR4 that was hyped up by Samsung to replace and then discontinue B die, I wouldn't get so excited.

It could be good, but more likely it will overclock as well as Micron DDR5 does.


----------



## Nizzen

bhav said:


> Considering the joke that was Samsung A die 16nm DDR4 that was hyped up by Samsung to replace and then discontinue B die, I wouldn't get so excited.


True, I still need to test it


----------



## bhav

Nizzen said:


> True, I still need to test it


I predict trfc 800. Always the issue when lowering ram nm.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Two quick questions as I'm trying to stablize an 8200 C34 overclock with A-die on my z790 Apex:
1. tREFI seems to be causing a ton of instability for me. Is there a particular voltage that
2. I cannot get Mem TweakIt to load for the life of me. All it shows is "About" and no setting (see screen shot). Do I need to roll back my version of windows or something else?


----------



## Nizzen

cletus-cassidy said:


> Two quick questions as I'm trying to stablize an 8200 C34 overclock with A-die on my z790 Apex:
> 1. tREFI seems to be causing a ton of instability for me. Is there a particular voltage that
> 2. I cannot get Mem TweakIt to load for the life of me. All it shows is "About" and no setting (see screen shot). Do I need to roll back my version of windows or something else?
> 
> View attachment 2589842


Try this:

Asus Mem Tweakit

*MemTweakIt_20220317.rar*








drive.google.com

Asrock Timing Configurator
*AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar*








drive.google.com


Is your dimms cooled enough for high tREFI? Enough "juice" too?


----------



## acoustic

tREFI makes the DIMMs more temperature sensitive, so could be that they're running too hot. Adding more voltage could very well exacerbate the issue.

What are your temps while testing? How high of a tREFI are you running? Running max tREFI sounds good for benching, but for 24/7 usage, it's typically not advised due to the potential for data corruption.


----------



## warbucks

cletus-cassidy said:


> Two quick questions as I'm trying to stablize an 8200 C34 overclock with A-die on my z790 Apex:
> 1. tREFI seems to be causing a ton of instability for me. Is there a particular voltage that
> 2. I cannot get Mem TweakIt to load for the life of me. All it shows is "About" and no setting (see screen shot). Do I need to roll back my version of windows or something else?
> 
> View attachment 2589842


Are you using MemTweakIt_20221101? Check the version you're using.

For 8200CL34, what are your voltages set at and leave tREFI on auto until you dial in stability.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Nizzen said:


> Try this:
> 
> Asus Mem Tweakit
> 
> *MemTweakIt_20220317.rar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> Asrock Timing Configurator
> *AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> Is your dimms cooled enough for high tREFI? Enough "juice" too?


That did it (for Mem TweakIt), thanks! My dimms are watercooled with the Bitspower 2-dimm DDR5 block that I think you are also using? About 5c over water temps. Let me post a screenshot and details shortly so you can see what's going on. I'm having a hell of a time getting stable.


----------



## skullbringer

bscool said:


> @skullbringer Has some coming and will be testing them.


looks like shipment to the retailer got delayed, eta after christmas at the earliest just fyi

edit for context, that's referring to the new Micron DDR5 16 Gbit RevG stuff on Crucial 5600 JEDEC modules


----------



## rulik006

skullbringer said:


> looks like shipment to the retailer got delayed, eta after christmas at the earliest just fyi


anyway, If someone from US want to be a pioneer and bring a sacrifice for overclocking altar, your deed will be remembered (in this thread mostly)
Crucial 32GB DDR5 5600 CT2K16G56C46U5 - Newegg.com
Crucial 32GB DDR5 5600 CT2K16G56C46U5 - Adorama.com
Crucial 32GB DDR5 5600 CT2K16G56C46U5- Bhphotovideo.com


----------



## inedenimadam

Hey guys, upgraded to a 13900k, still on z-690 unify-x and early 2x32 4000C40 hynix green sticks from Dell (first wave ddr5/non kit). I forgot to jot down or screenshot my DRAM OC settings before updating the bios to drop the new CPU in. Can you DRAM gurus take a peek at my results and tell me if anything looks out of place? I haven't hammered it with a 24 hour test yet...just a few Y-chruncher and a 2 hour TM5 loop. would like to get this 100% dialed it.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

acoustic said:


> tREFI makes the DIMMs more temperature sensitive, so could be that they're running too hot. Adding more voltage could very well exacerbate the issue.
> 
> What are your temps while testing? How high of a tREFI are you running? Running max tREFI sounds good for benching, but for 24/7 usage, it's typically not advised due to the potential for data corruption.


@Nizzen and @warbucks, here is where I've gotten so far. Whenever I try to bump tREFI even a bit (e.g. up to 65K), I get lots of instability in TM5. Any advice on how to max out tREFI (or get as high as possible) much appreciated!


----------



## CptSpig

cletus-cassidy said:


> @Nizzen and @warbucks, here is where I've gotten so far. Whenever I try to bump tREFI even a bit (e.g. up to 65K), I get lots of instability in TM5. Any advice on how to max out tREFI (or get as high as possible) much appreciated!


Try tREFI at 262143


----------



## Nizzen

cletus-cassidy said:


> @Nizzen and @warbucks, here is where I've gotten so far. Whenever I try to bump tREFI even a bit (e.g. up to 65K), I get lots of instability in TM5. Any advice on how to max out tREFI (or get as high as possible) much appreciated!
> 
> View attachment 2589857


Ring @ 5000 and 6 ghz on the cpu is really pushing the cpu, so it can be a combination of events 
8200c34 is pretty thight is in the area of imc/ dimms can be the bottleneck.
Nice result anyway 👍
Maybe you need even higher MC volt or VDD/VDDQ. Need to try to know.


----------



## bhav

cletus-cassidy said:


> @Nizzen and @warbucks, here is where I've gotten so far. Whenever I try to bump tREFI even a bit (e.g. up to 65K), I get lots of instability in TM5. Any advice on how to max out tREFI (or get as high as possible) much appreciated!
> 
> View attachment 2589857


I'm going to guess its not your trefi thats the problem as DDR5 can go waaaay higher than that.

Its more likely that 5.0 on the ring is too high to stabilize the ram OC. Try setting ring to stock and seeing if TM5 passes.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Nizzen said:


> Try this:
> 
> Asus Mem Tweakit
> 
> *MemTweakIt_20220317.rar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> Asrock Timing Configurator
> *AsrTCSetup(v4.0.14).rar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> Is your dimms cooled enough for high tREFI? Enough "juice" too?





Nizzen said:


> Ring @ 5000 and 6 ghz on the cpu is really pushing the cpu, so it can be a combination of events
> 8200c34 is pretty thight is in the area of imc/ dimms can be the bottleneck.
> Nice result anyway 👍
> Maybe you need even higher MC volt or VDD/VDDQ. Need to try to know.


Fair. I have it Oc’d to boost to 6ghz and only click to 5.5 with all cores using 1.39v LLC 4. I haven’t tried dropping the ring. Will try that.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

bhav said:


> I'm going to guess its not your trefi thats the problem as DDR5 can go waaaay higher than that.
> 
> Its more likely that 5.0 on the ring is too high to stabilize the ram OC. Try setting ring to stock and seeing if TM5 passes.


Will try that next thanks. Any reason to think I don’t have a good bin of A-Die based on what you see here? Trying to decide if I should try a second kit.


----------



## bhav

cletus-cassidy said:


> Will try that next thanks. Any reason to think I don’t have a good bin of A-Die based on what you see here? Trying to decide if I should try a second kit.


Why would 8200 not be a good bin? Getting any such high OCs to run stable is always the bigger challenge.


----------



## aznsniper911

Dinnzy said:


> So once I threw my KS in I tried to get the new G skill 7800 kit stable with a large plethora of options including memory try or and lots of voltage tweaking high and low. No luck. Can only boot 7600.
> 
> yolod it and put my a die g skill 6400 kit and look at that… boots 7800. Do you think this is a lucky bin / combo with the ks? The 13900k was giving me trouble booting this high with the 6400 kit however I still think it could be a mounting pressure issue. I’m onA unify x
> View attachment 2589660
> 
> View attachment 2589659


Yeah it can happen, I gotten a couple dud 13900K that won't boot past 7400 no matter how much voltage and cooling I throw at it. 

It's definite an IMC and luck for the G.skill 6400. I have 5 November and 5 December batches, all A Dies, and i have two kits that won't boot past 7400 but the others do 7800 with various degrees of timings


----------



## aznsniper911

cletus-cassidy said:


> Will try that next thanks. Any reason to think I don’t have a good bin of A-Die based on what you see here? Trying to decide if I should try a second kit.


Bad bin of A Die are these kits I have here that top out at 7400 lol


----------



## Minciu

valzo said:


> How's A-die overclocking on a MSI Z790I with 12900K? Should I be considering 13th gen?


I just replace 12700 to 13700 on Asus z690-f and Hynix Mdie. It let nie go from 6600 unstable painfull to Stanley 6933. Where 6700 on 12700 cant event boot windows. 

I think that 13700 is even beter from 12900.


----------



## warbucks

cletus-cassidy said:


> @Nizzen and @warbucks, here is where I've gotten so far. Whenever I try to bump tREFI even a bit (e.g. up to 65K), I get lots of instability in TM5. Any advice on how to max out tREFI (or get as high as possible) much appreciated!
> 
> View attachment 2589857


1.39V @ LLC4, you most definitely need more vcore for 5.0 ring. Try increasing vcore and IMC.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

CptSpig said:


> Try tREFI at 262143


When I try it and run TM5 or Karhu it reboots or errors out. Getting tREFI maxed out is a priority, but I can't even get it there if I run at 8000 c36.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

warbucks said:


> 1.39V @ LLC4, you most definitely need more vcore for 5.0 ring. Try increasing vcore and IMC.


Here it is with tREFI maxed and erroring out on TM5 after <3 min with 1.4375 IMC set in BIOS and ring ratio on auto. Any other thoughts? Keep increasing IMC voltage?


----------



## centvalny

Mdie air @ 7900c32 tights


----------



## CptSpig

cletus-cassidy said:


> When I try it and run TM5 or Karhu it reboots or errors out. Getting tREFI maxed out is a priority, but I can't even get it there if I run at 8000 c36.


What is your build including SP, P-cores and E-cores?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

CptSpig said:


> What is your build including SP, P-cores and E-cores?


13900KF SP107, P 115 and E 91. MC 79.


----------



## CptSpig

cletus-cassidy said:


> 13900KF SP107, P 115 and E 91. MC 79.


What Board?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

CptSpig said:


> What Board?


z790 Apex. Other specs in original screenshot with notepad


----------



## warbucks

cletus-cassidy said:


> Here it is with tREFI maxed and erroring out on TM5 after <3 min with 1.4375 IMC set in BIOS and ring ratio on auto. Any other thoughts? Keep increasing IMC voltage?
> 
> View attachment 2589870


If you set tREFI to auto does Testmem5 pass? I would start with getting that stable first.


----------



## CptSpig

cletus-cassidy said:


> z790 Apex. Other specs in original screenshot with notepad


Error 3 is tRAS. Try tRAS at 34 and raise tWR by setting tWR to Auto, tWRPRE to 50 and tWRPDEN to 49. What bios did you say you are running?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

CptSpig said:


> Error 3 is tRAS. Try tRAS at 34 and raise tWR by setting tWR to Auto, tWRPRE to 50 and tWRPDEN to 49. What bios did you say you are running?


Will try that. Running 806. Worth trying 810?


----------



## CptSpig

cletus-cassidy said:


> Will try that. Running 806. Worth trying 810?


Yes! 8010


----------



## CptSpig

cletus-cassidy said:


> Will try that. Running 806. Worth trying 810?


Use memtest86 in the bios before booting into Windows. Will save you from corrupting your OS and having to reinstall.


----------



## morph.

CptSpig said:


> Error 3 is tRAS. Try tRAS at 34 and raise tWR by setting tWR to Auto, tWRPRE to 50 and tWRPDEN to 49. What bios did you say you are running?


Any key/guide on which tests errors means roughly what?


----------



## CptSpig

morph. said:


> Any key/guide on which tests errors means roughly what?


Errors


----------



## bhav

cletus-cassidy said:


> When I try it and run TM5 or Karhu it reboots or errors out. Getting tREFI maxed out is a priority, but I can't even get it there if I run at 8000 c36.


Actually it sounds like you need to reinstall windows and the MB bios, looks like corruption.


----------



## Dinnzy

can someone help me get this stable, (especially where to start with the timing ;p) playing the SA seems to have been really contributing to it posting or not and how quickly it errors out. Manuel 1.25 posts, however auto seems to be running the longest time without errors though that may not be saying
much.
I also replied on 
UNI X thread
if we dont want to go to far off topic here ;p
Thanks!


----------



## opt33

Dinnzy said:


> can someone help me get this stable, (especially where to start with the timing ;p) playing the SA seems to have been really contributing to it posting or not and how quickly it errors out. Manuel 1.25 posts, however auto seems to be running the longest time without errors though that may not be saying
> much.
> I also replied on
> UNI X thread
> if we dont want to go to far off topic here ;p
> Thanks!


Not sure how that is posting with cpu vddq at 1.09, unless hwinfo reading that wrong. I would start at 1.45 cpu vddq, if stable can back it down, but probably need in that range for 7600. 
for unifyx, 7600 cpu vdd2 1.4 range, cpu vddq 1.45, sa 1.2-1.25. Those 3 adjust for higher frequency. When tightening settings, most just raise dram vdd/vddq.


----------



## Dinnzy

Weird it’s set in the bios @1.42, left side actual does say 1.09. Does xmp override that even if it set Manually? Also maybe it’s because I have the cpu voltage on auto. Everything besides the dram was on default. Let me try.


----------



## Dinnzy

So this must be my issue. Manual or xmp what ever I set in bios for cpu vddq and SA will only run the auto setting. There must be something is the MSI bios that I’m missing ?


----------



## Dinnzy

Dinnzy said:


> So this must be my issue. Manual or xmp what ever I set in bios for cpu vddq and SA will only run the auto setting. There must be something is the MSI bios that I’m missing ?


After CMOS we’re all good. I don’t know how the fell that happened. Truly a miracle for it to boot that low hahha


----------



## Groove2013

@bscool @Ichirou do you think it's possible to do more than 7800 MHz on Strix E Z790, provided CPU imc and RAM can do that?


----------



## TraumatikOC

cletus-cassidy said:


> Will try that. Running 806. Worth trying 810?


Def try 0810. Last nite i flashed 0810, set xmp1 acll 0.13 dcll 0.98, then set asus 7600 hynix profile, then set 7800 speed, then ran bios memtest with a Pass. 1st time i could pass with 7800. Didnt have to change anything. Now to test games. will tweak as necessary if not stable gaming. Asus mce disabled. Gskill 2x16 7200.

EDIT .. not game stable. Any hints on tweaks to this ?


----------



## davids40

👋 
is there any version of MSI Dragon Ball DDR5 complient ?
thanks
🙏


----------



## Nizzen

Doublecheck stability before flashing bios to 0810. 0808 still works great for 8400mhz c34.


----------



## TraumatikOC

Nizzen said:


> Doublecheck stability before flashing bios to 0810. 0808 still works great for 8400mhz c34.
> 
> View attachment 2590041


0808 wasnt passing bios memtest at 7800, was erroring at 20%. Didnt know if needed looser timings or more V . But thanks for info.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> 0808 still works great for 8400mhz c34.


1.65 vdimm for 8400C34? What are those DDR5 sticks capable of at 1.4v (for only a fan over them) ?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> 1.65 vdimm for 8400C34? What are those DDR5 sticks capable of at 1.4v (for only a fan over them) ?


Don't know. Most likely 8000mhz with loose timings. This is OEM green hynix.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> This is OEM green hynix.


Same as Luumi used? (that finnish overclocker on YT)


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Same as Luumi used? (that finnish overclocker on YT)


I think so. I bought from Splave


----------



## SoldierRBT

Nizzen said:


> Doublecheck stability before flashing bios to 0810. 0808 still works great for 8400mhz c34.
> View attachment 2590041
> 
> View attachment 2590041


Too tight tWR reduces bandwidth in Karhu. Enable cache and check bandwidth should be around 451mb/s









tRCD WR 12 improves gb3 score and increase Karhu bandwidth 452mb/s


----------



## acoustic

SoldierRBT said:


> Too tight tWR reduces bandwidth in Karhu. Enable cache and check bandwidth should be around 451mb/s
> View attachment 2590043
> 
> 
> tRCD WR 12 improves gb3 score and increase Karhu bandwidth 452mb/s


I found tCWL being too tight will cause same issue with Karhu bandwidth!


----------



## Nizzen

TraumatikOC said:


> Def try 0810. Last nite i flashed 0810, set xmp1 acll 0.13 dcll 0.98, then set asus 7600 hynix profile, then set 7800 speed, then ran bios memtest with a Pass. 1st time i could pass with 7800. Didnt have to change anything. Now to test games. will tweak as necessary if not stable gaming. Asus mce disabled. Gskill 2x16 7200.
> 
> EDIT .. not game stable. Any hints on tweaks to this ?
> View attachment 2590031


Cool the dimms MORE and use enough VDD/VDDQ. Use enough IMC and VCCSA. Easy clap


----------



## Nizzen

SoldierRBT said:


> Too tight tWR reduces bandwidth in Karhu. Enable cache and check bandwidth should be around 451mb/s
> View attachment 2590043
> 
> 
> tRCD WR 12 improves gb3 score and increase Karhu bandwidth 452mb/s


What settings on in "advanced" ? Cpu cache is on and Ring default?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Nizzen said:


> What settings on in "advanced" ? Cpu cache is on and Ring default?


Yeah CPU cache to enable, others settings default. 32 threads and 27000MB is what I use. 
8400 452MB/s
8266 446MB/s


----------



## acoustic

SoldierRBT said:


> Yeah CPU cache to enable, others settings default. 32 threads and 27000MB is what I use.
> 8400 452MB/s
> 8266 446MB/s


7000 @ 368MB/s


----------



## Nizzen

SoldierRBT said:


> Yeah CPU cache to enable, others settings default. 32 threads and 27000MB is what I use.
> 8400 452MB/s
> 8266 446MB/s


Cpu and cahce speed?
I'm getting about 445MB/s with stock cpu and ring. 8400c34


----------



## tibcsi0407

Nizzen said:


> Doublecheck stability before flashing bios to 0810. 0808 still works great for 8400mhz c34.
> View attachment 2590041
> 
> View attachment 2590041


Thats all you check for stability?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Nizzen said:


> Cpu and cahce speed?
> I'm getting about 445MB/s with stock cpu and ring. 8400c34


CPU speed didn't affect bandwidth. I tested 55/43/45 and 56/44/48. Same speed. Photo was taken 56/44/48 I believe. Make sure to use 32 threads.

Try RDCWR 12 and 50/51 tWR (14)


acoustic said:


> 7000 @ 368MB/s


No idea. I tested 8000C34 when I installed Apex I believe it was 430MB/s


----------



## crackinho82

Hi. im newy, noob haha
I have G.SKILL DDR5-_6400_ _CL32_ TRIDENT Z5 with msi pro z690 -a and 13600K, someone can suggest me some parameters to improve latency (71 ns win XMP) without upping tREFI to 65500? i want something secure, dont want 48 ns but i want to improve the stock settings


----------



## Nizzen

tibcsi0407 said:


> Thats all you check for stability?


No, I play Battlefield 2042 for 20 hours after 

If that's stable, it's stable enough for me.

I play games on this computer, so I don't play stabilitests for ages. 30 minutes is often enough for me to check if it's game stable.

There is no 100% stable, only degree of stable. It all depends on temperature, load, drivers, cpu overclock etc...


----------



## TraumatikOC

Nizzen said:


> Cool the dimms MORE and use enough VDD/VDDQ. Use enough IMC and VCCSA. Easy clap


TYvm , will try more V tonite


----------



## Nizzen

SoldierRBT said:


> Yeah CPU cache to enable, others settings default. 32 threads and 27000MB is what I use.
> 8400 452MB/s
> 8266 446MB/s


~450MB/s confirmed on 8400. Had to close some background programs LOL


----------



## tibcsi0407

Nizzen said:


> No, I play Battlefield 2042 for 20 hours after
> 
> If that's stable, it's stable enough for me.
> 
> I play games on this computer, so I don't play stabilitests for ages. 30 minutes is often enough for me to check if it's game stable.
> 
> There is no 100% stable, only degree of stable. It all depends on temperature, load, drivers, cpu overclock etc...


Agreed. I use TM5 Usmus 10 Cycles and Aida for 1 Hour.


----------



## OC2000

I've reduced down to 8000 now. I can be stable at 8400 or 8200 for how many hours you like and next day errors everywhere. This will do until the 13900 KS comes out. Hopefully it will boot tomorrow lol.



P.S I'd love to know the secret of getting sub 50ns in AIDA latency.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> No, I play Battlefield 2042 for 20 hours after
> 
> If that's stable, it's stable enough for me.


Yeah BF2042 is a good stability test, especially after Season 3 update.


----------



## Venekor

I recently purchased components to put together a new build. Gen 13th 13700k, 16gb x2 Tforce ddr5 7000 CL34 ram but decided to go with a Z690 motherboard (vs z790) that I got from Ebay (To save some money $550 vs $1000 ) supposedly used for only 6 months so I assumed it would be a 2022 motherboard. Just looked up the serial and its a z690 Asus Extreme from 11/2021.

Is this board considered one of the bad Asus 2021 boards? Has anyone else had issues running this new A-die tforce ram at 7000mhz on this z690 extreme? Deciding on whether I should return it before I unpack it and use it as my board just wondering how prevalent issues might be with this board and ram speed.


----------



## athenaesword

rs199208 said:


> that contact doesn't look very good to me. i'm speaking just of ihs cooling.
> i like the fact you use so much paste lol! it helps to pinpoint contact issues..
> though that still seems an excessive amount even to me lol!
> i would try without frame.
> using a frame can easily mess up the pin contact pressures thus hurting memory performance.
> i think one or two people on this thread recently got 7600 and or 7800 stable on unix with a KS.
> i'm not going to try that frame on my first reinstall, so that i can tell if there are memory problems once i do use my frame afterwards.
> 
> use very light touch on the ilm screws they shouldn't be tight. for instance start at top left screw only turning a little then the same amount of turn on the bottom left then bottom right then top right then back to top left and so on...


hi, just reading the last couple pages of this thread. is the general recommendation with 13900k/z790 to skip the contact frame? i have the TR one and going to start building tomorrow.


----------



## CptSpig

athenaesword said:


> hi, just reading the last couple pages of this thread. is the general recommendation with 13900k/z790 to skip the contact frame? i have the TR one and going to start building tomorrow.


I have no issues with my Thermalright frame on my Z790 Apex.


----------



## warbucks

Betroz said:


> 1.65 vdimm for 8400C34? What are those DDR5 sticks capable of at 1.4v (for only a fan over them) ?


I'm also using green oem hynix A-die sticks, 8200CL36 @ 1.53 VDD/VDDQ.


----------



## bscool

OC2000 said:


> P.S I'd love to know the secret of getting sub 50ns in AIDA latency.


A big part of Aida latency is Windows and programs/software running in the back ground. You can take off 2-5ns plus easy by having a clean Windows install with nothing running in the back ground.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> @bscool @Ichirou do you think it's possible to do more than 7800 MHz on Strix E Z790, provided CPU imc and RAM can do that?


It might be possible but unlikely as even on higher end 4 dimm MB I see many top out at 7600 to 7800.

@skullbringer was using binned memory and cpu as far as I know and on z790 Hero he topped out at 7800 I think for Karhu and y cruncher stable.


----------



## 673714

athenaesword said:


> hi, just reading the last couple pages of this thread. is the general recommendation with 13900k/z790 to skip the contact frame? i have the TR one and going to start building tomorrow.


I haven't noticed a single issue while using my Thermalright frame. I've tightened it down so hard the gasket squeezed out a bit near the screws and it doesn't seem to matter whether it's that tight or a little loose, it seems to work the same for me


----------



## 673714

Agent-A01 said:


> View attachment 2588735
> 
> 
> Copper Byski MRC-X heatsinks installed. These are easily 3-4x heavier than stock.
> 
> SPD temps max out around 35c with ambient ~22c at 1.5 vdimm.
> 
> Worth it over stock? I'm not so sure. Will have to do more testing.


So, what's the verdict on these? They seem like they might be the best you can get for air cooling? I'm thinking about getting a couple for about $31 each, but will they still fit if the DDR5 has RGB?

Thanks!


----------



## cletus-cassidy

warbucks said:


> If you set tREFI to auto does Testmem5 pass? I would start with getting that stable first.


Unfortunately none of this helped. But increasing IVR Transmitter (TX) helped a bit (it was on auto) and I have 100K tREFI TM5 stable. 

Are some dimms better than others at tTEFI? I have only ever had it be affected by temps. May pick up another kit and CPU to see if it improves.


----------



## X909

tREFI is dependend on the ICs and Temperature. It should make not so much difference if you run 60k, 100k or maxed out in terms of performance. VDDQTX will not help. Its just leaking energy in your memory capacitors...


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend did some low voltage setting for 8600 cl36 and here it is.


----------



## Forsaken1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend did some low voltage setting for 8600 cl36 and here it is.
> 
> View attachment 2590121


About to give up on tachyon and go with z790 Apex.Talk me out of it? 😆


----------



## Dodgexander

Forsaken1 said:


> About to give up on tachyon and go with z790 Apex.Talk me out of it? 😆


You'll get very, very little performance gains in real life tasks by clocking memory higher and you'll save a bunch of cash, time and hassle. Is that enough?😂


----------



## Forsaken1

Dodgexander said:


> You'll get very, very little performance gains in real life tasks by clocking memory higher and you'll save a bunch of cash, time and hassle. Is that enough?😂


Cash means very little. I’m a millionaire.Value is always a good thing. 😆


----------



## WebsterRKL

CptSpig said:


> I have no issues with my Thermalright frame on my Z790 Apex.
> 
> View attachment 2590082
> View attachment 2590082


Nice test bench setup, glad I'm not the only one who loves open air. 









Some new parts arrived from EKWB today. Moving from 115x mounting frame to 1700.


----------



## Agent-A01

LilOliVert said:


> So, what's the verdict on these? They seem like they might be the best you can get for air cooling? I'm thinking about getting a couple for about $31 each, but will they still fit if the DDR5 has RGB?
> 
> Thanks!


I was actually able to max out tREFI to 262K from 131K. Much above that I would throw errors pretty fast before.
Granted this is on 0808 bios so I'm not sure if that helped.

I have not tried to fine tune other timings from what I already have.


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> I've reduced down to 8000 now. I can be stable at 8400 or 8200 for how many hours you like and next day errors everywhere. This will do until the 13900 KS comes out. Hopefully it will boot tomorrow lol.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S I'd love to know the secret of getting sub 50ns in AIDA latency.


Measure it in safe mode. 😁


----------



## 673714

Agent-A01 said:


> I was actually able to max out tREFI to 262K from 131K. Much above that I would throw errors pretty fast before.
> Granted this is on 0808 bios so I'm not sure if that helped.
> 
> I have not tried to fine tune other timings from what I already have.


That's pretty awesome for air, right? It seems like something I need asap 
They're naked right now, but it honestly does seem better than with that joke of a heat spreader they taped on


----------



## xpulse

Can someone help me with getting a 7600 or higher RAM speed on my PC?
Specs:
i9-13900
MB: Gigabyte Aorus Master z790
RAM: F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK

Bios are posting on XMP and 7800, but the system passes memory tests only on 7400 speed.
Anything higher, dropping a lot of errors in the RAM test and tm5.

RAM voltage 1.55v

Current timings:


----------



## tibcsi0407

xpulse said:


> Can someone help me with getting a 7600 or higher RAM speed on my PC?
> Specs:
> i9-13900
> MB: Gigabyte Aorus Master z790
> RAM: F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> Bios are posting on XMP and 7800, but the system passes memory tests only on 7400 speed.
> Anything higher, dropping a lot of errors in the RAM test and tm5.
> 
> RAM voltage 1.55v
> 
> Current timings:
> View attachment 2590186


Show is your Hwinfo screenshot pls.


----------



## xpulse

tibcsi0407 said:


> Show is your Hwinfo screenshot pls.


Here is full HWinfo


----------



## bscool

xpulse said:


> Can someone help me with getting a 7600 or higher RAM speed on my PC?
> Specs:
> i9-13900
> MB: Gigabyte Aorus Master z790
> RAM: F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> Bios are posting on XMP and 7800, but the system passes memory tests only on 7400 speed.
> Anything higher, dropping a lot of errors in the RAM test and tm5.
> 
> RAM voltage 1.55v
> 
> Current timings:
> View attachment 2590186


Getting 7600 might be tough on most 4 dim MB but if you havent try some of the things in this video. Will give you an idea of voltages, timings and setting to look at anyway.


----------



## Betroz

bscool said:


> It might be possible but unlikely as even on higher end 4 dimm MB I see many top out at 7600 to 7800.


According to the Asus QVL memory support page, 7800 memory is the max supported/verified on their 4 dimm boards like the Strix E-Gaming and Hero. Users could instead focus on lower timings and achieve decent performance right?


----------



## tibcsi0407

xpulse said:


> Here is full HWinfo


Raise the TX to 1.4V and reduce the dimms to 1.5 first.


----------



## skullbringer

bscool said:


> It might be possible but unlikely as even on higher end 4 dimm MB I see many top out at 7600 to 7800.
> 
> @skullbringer was using binned memory and cpu as far as I know and on z790 Hero he topped out at 7800 I think for Karhu and y cruncher stable.


binned yeah, but not top bin by any means. best imc out of 14 and best 2 memory modules out of 4 (hynix oem 5600 jedec). most I can stabilize with bclk is actually like 7930 on the hero (vst + karhu + tm5) 

so if strix clocks as good as hero and you have a good imc and a highly binned a-die kit, you might be able to do 8000 stable. but honeslty I havent kept up with how well strix boards do compared to maximus

@Groove2013


----------



## Rena Ryugu

DDR5 8267 CL 34-46-46-72, not so difficult for Z790 Apex.


----------



## CptSpig

WebsterRKL said:


> Nice test bench setup, glad I'm not the only one who loves open air.


Thanks, here it is bulit.


----------



## Xavier233

Hi guys, for those with the Z790 Hero, can you please share your complete DDR5 6000 or more settings?


----------



## tibcsi0407

Xavier233 said:


> Hi guys, for those with the Z790 Hero, can you please share your compler i


DRAM VDD/VDDQ 1.4V IMC VDD 1.35V VDDQ TX 1.4V. Gskill 6400 A-DIE.
This is after a week of playing with settings. I could tighten it here and there (TRFC, Trefi, TWRRD), but I am happy that it is even working now.
I can boot even above 8000, but to make it stable is a different world.


----------



## Xavier233

tibcsi0407 said:


> DRAM VDD/VDDQ 1.4V IMC VDD 1.35V VDDQ TX 1.4V. Gskill 6400 A-DIE.
> This is after a week of playing with settings. I could tighten it here and there (TRFC, Trefi, TWRRD), but I am happy that it is even working now.
> I can boot even above 8000, but to make it stable is a different world.
> 
> View attachment 2590269


Would you be kind to share your exact BIOS settings please, related to memory?


----------



## tibcsi0407

Xavier233 said:


> Would you be kind to share your exact BIOS settings please, related to memory?


It's all what I wrote and the timings are on the picture. What I forgot to write is the SA, it's 1.15V manual. I can send you the TXT in PM if you want.


----------



## asdkj1740

xpulse said:


> Can someone help me with getting a 7600 or higher RAM speed on my PC?
> Specs:
> i9-13900
> MB: Gigabyte Aorus Master z790
> RAM: F5-7600J3646G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> Bios are posting on XMP and 7800, but the system passes memory tests only on 7400 speed.
> Anything higher, dropping a lot of errors in the RAM test and tm5.
> 
> RAM voltage 1.55v
> 
> Current timings:
> View attachment 2590186


7800mhz on aorus elite, same gskill sticks.
you dont need to mess with dram voltages, if you are already having so many errors at the begining.








技嘉DDR5超頻太易玩了 Z790 AORUS ELITE AX二千蚊之光 - 悠二硬件Yujihw


DDR5 OC ! 上一篇關於DDR5超頻的文章好像沒什麼人看，VIEW數少得可憐。YUJIHW的傳統就是越少




yujihw.com


----------



## Nizzen

From Asus DIY Group


















*What affects DRAM Scaling ( the speeds supported on the platform/motherboard? )*

DRAM scaling is affected by the quality of your IMC (memory controller), the motherboard, and its UEFI firmware, as well as underlying auto rules/tuning and board topology. Last but not least, you also have to account for the kit of memory and all applicable elements, including the ( PMIC, PCB, and critically the IC ) which there are three of (Micron, Samsung, and SK Hynix).
It is important to always remember overclocking is not guaranteed and that Intel defines a DDR5 specification table that will change depending on

Slot per channel/ DIMMs per channel

The rank of the memory ( which is also influenced by density )

For this generation, the default memory divider supported by Raptor Lake has been increased

5600MT compared to 4800MT























*What about XMP overclocking? Is it not guaranteed to work?*

No, while XMP kits validate the DIMMs themselves, it does not ensure that the overall divider you are attempting to run will be supported by the platform, especially when it comes to your IMC. More on this below.

You must keep the contributing factors noted above in mind when picking your memory. Critically you can account for the majority but cannot account for the quality of the IMC, which will heavily influence DRAM scaling.

It is a reality that some CPUs will have lower scaling and others will have higher scaling. This is inherent to overclocking.








*So, what influences XMP stability/functionality?*







The motherboard and memory speed(s) it supports. This is detailed in the manual/tech specs and, of course, the QVL.







The kit of memory and the XMP profile which has been pre-screened/tested/validated. This is defined in the XMP profile by the memory manufacturer. An example of this would be a DDR5 kit of memory operating at the values noted below -

DDR5 6600

Timing 34-40-40-105
Voltage 1.40V








The IMC is part of the CPU and is essentially unknown, it is similar to the unknown range of the CPU in relation to overclocking frequency and voltage that will be needed. The IMC is critically what influences the level of DRAM scaling more than any other contributing factor.
While users do not know what to expect in regards to the OC range of support when it comes t to the IMC, Internally, we have a sense of the OC margin due to testing hundreds of CPU samples and having a barometer of what can "reasonably be expected." As such, with information in hand, you can make a somewhat reasonable estimate of what overclocking range/target will generally be possible.





































*Beyond this, when installing DRAM, you must account for the items below. ALL OF THESE WILL AFFECT DRAM SCALING.

What affects 4 DIMM / 2 SPC/2DPC configurations? Why there is no such thing as 4 DIMM XMP.*







*Population, number of DIMMs

2 DIMMs will always scale higher and with superior stability than that of 4 DIMMs -*







*Density - the amount of memory i.e 32GB vs 16GB etc.
Higher density/increased capacity is more challenging/difficult to reach stability and is more limited relative to DRAM scaling.*







*Rank - single rank vs. dual rank*







*IC - the "chips" on the memory, Micron, SK Hynix, Samsung, etc*
For a simpler explanation, look at the table linked below -























*So, does this mean I cannot run 4 DIMMs?
*
No, you can run 4 DIMM, but as this is generally only to achieve a very high memory density like 128GB it is important to keep in mind you will be limiting the max memory divider supported and also increasing the likelihood of manual tuning.*
*
There are no four DIMMs on the market, and as such, to achieve a 4 DIMM configuration, you will be mixing/matching two kits, and the values that 2 DIMM kits were validated for are not generally valid for four DIMMs as such, you will need to reset your expectations for what can be run.

An example is you may buy a 6400MT kit x 2 - It is NOT reasonable to think you can run this configuration in 4 DIMMs.

You would need to re-tune the operating parameters and look to target a value like 5600-6000MT.

A certain percentage of IMCs with some kits and their respective XMP profiles will be able to reach higher speeds, including 6000MT with full stability.





































*What can you expect when it comes to speed expectations relative to DIMM population and or density?
4x16GB – 5600-6000MT+* - Critically keep in mind users who comment on 4 DIMM XMP need to understand this is not accurate as there are no 4 DIMM XMP kits. 4 DIMM configurations are created by users/builders who are mixing kits. In some cases, you may attempt to load an XMP profile, but the motherboard will generally have to leverage auto rules in addition to the XMP profile to attempt to accommodate this type of configuration.

It should be EXPECTED that you may need to manually tune the memory, including modification of timings and voltage ( which were validated and tuned to a 2 DIMM kit but now need to differ due to running a more stressful configuration ).

An example is
6000MT kit operating at 32,38,38,80,118 - 1.350

May require you to change to
6000MT with 36,38,38,38,80, 118 - 1.350

We have tested kits that require tuning and also tested kits which alongside their XMP profile, and our auto rules will work with only setting the XMP profile.
*2x32 –5200-6400MT+ *higher speeds are possible, but it becomes very dependent on the quality of the IMC which is variable.
RAPTOR LAKES IMC is extremely impressive and offers a considerable minimum uplift in the success of ultra high MT operating dividers.
*2x16 –6000-7200MT+ *higher speeds may be possible but will have a lower level of success due to requiring a strong/better IMC. *Higher speeds that are possible include 7400-7800MT+*. Again speeds in this range will require a higher quality IMC than the norm. 2 DIMM boards like the MAXIMUS Z790 APEX will also have a superior likelihood of success with the same CPUs.
*As you will see even in two (2) DIMM configurations that have higher density, you will see a reduction in speed that is attainable.
*Overclocking your CPU also influences DRAM Scaling and ideally should be done in async fashion (independent) first to assess max values for each respectively as at times the combined overclocks could net lower values.
*lastly overclocking cannot be guaranteed even with a good UEFI BIOS firmware, good motherboard design, IMC, and validated XMP kit you may see varying results between similar or the same hardware configurations.






























*What about 13th Gen on Z690 motherboards?
*
Overall you can expect improvements with higher DRAM divider scaling and overall the prior insights are extended but more conservative compared to Z790. This is due to further enhancements to signal integrity on Z790 compared to Z690*.
*
An example of this is you may see a 7200MT kit be less likely to hit the native 7200 profile divider/XMP Profile and require tuning down to 6800/7000MT for stability. The same kit on Z790 and 13th Gen would generally run without modification*.*


----------



## xpulse

asdkj1740 said:


> 7800mhz on aorus elite, same gskill sticks.
> you dont need to mess with dram voltages, if you are already having so many errors at the begining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 技嘉DDR5超頻太易玩了 Z790 AORUS ELITE AX二千蚊之光 - 悠二硬件Yujihw
> 
> 
> DDR5 OC ! 上一篇關於DDR5超頻的文章好像沒什麼人看，VIEW數少得可憐。YUJIHW的傳統就是越少
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yujihw.com


Thank you.


----------



## Nono31

bscool said:


> A big part of Aida latency is Windows and programs/software running in the back ground. You can take off 2-5ns plus easy by having a clean Windows install with nothing running in the back ground.











Something like this.


----------



## ViTosS

Nono31 said:


> View attachment 2590297
> 
> Something like this.


Is that 100% stable? If so, insanely good IMC and RAM OC!


----------



## OC2000

crazy 8000 solid as a rock, 8200, 8267, 8400 CL 36(solid until next day) and yet this is my result from this IMC.



Think my IMC just won't take 8200+


----------



## OC2000

ViTosS said:


> Is that 100% stable? If so, insanely good IMC and RAM OC!


He posted DDR4 in DDR5 forum and show me and Aida sub 50ns with a full screen


----------



## Rena Ryugu

asdkj1740 said:


> 7800mhz on aorus elite, same gskill sticks.
> you dont need to mess with dram voltages, if you are already having so many errors at the begining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 技嘉DDR5超頻太易玩了 Z790 AORUS ELITE AX二千蚊之光 - 悠二硬件Yujihw
> 
> 
> DDR5 OC ! 上一篇關於DDR5超頻的文章好像沒什麼人看，VIEW數少得可憐。YUJIHW的傳統就是越少
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yujihw.com


If I'm correct, you're probably Yuji himself. Anyway those A-dies were definitely held back by the motherboard.


----------



## Ocfailfish

Asus marketers are snake oil salesmen for advertising 7800+ for 4 slot z790 boards. Even worse is that they list 7800 speed ram in their qvl ram list for those motherboards while knowing full well it's rare to get 7400+ let alone 7800. It's a blatant scam. I'll not be trusting their marketing ever again after all the grief of this build.

My 13900k, z790 strix-e bios 0806, gskill 7600 build is currently stable with the following:

Ram:
Fast boot - disabled
Xmp off, manual oc 7000 34 43 43 112
SA - 0.9
Max SA watts in hwinfo - 9.6w
IMC - 1.2
IVR TX vddq - auto (1.40)
Dram vdd/vddq - 1.40
PMIC - sync all

Passes tm5 absolut and 7500 Karhu.

Once I bump it up to 7200, it can't even pass memtest 9.4 in the bios. What should I change for stable 7200?

Are the secondary and tertiary timings with Xmp tweaked useful? Or stick to manual with xmp off?

Should I try bios 0810?


----------



## energie80

Ocfailfish said:


> Asus marketers are snake oil salesmen for advertising 7800+ for 4 slot z790 boards. Even worse is that they list 7800 speed ram in their qvl ram list for those motherboards while knowing full well it's rare to get 7400+ let alone 7800. It's a blatant scam. I'll not be trusting their marketing ever again after all the grief of this build.
> 
> My 13900k, z790 strix-e bios 0806, gskill 7600 build is currently stable with the following:
> 
> Ram:
> Fast boot - disabled
> Xmp off, manual oc 7000 34 43 43 112
> SA - 0.9
> Max SA watts in hwinfo - 9.6w
> IMC - 1.2
> IVR TX vddq - auto (1.40)
> Dram vdd/vddq - 1.40
> PMIC - sync all
> 
> Passes tm5 absolut and 7500 Karhu.
> 
> Once I bump it up to 7200, it can't even pass memtest 9.4 in the bios. What should I change for stable 7200?
> 
> Are the secondary and tertiary timings with Xmp tweaked useful? Or stick to manual with xmp off?
> 
> Should I try bios 0810?


Bump sa 1.1


----------



## Nizzen

Ocfailfish said:


> Asus marketers are snake oil salesmen for advertising 7800+ for 4 slot z790 boards. Even worse is that they list 7800 speed ram in their qvl ram list for those motherboards while knowing full well it's rare to get 7400+ let alone 7800. It's a blatant scam. I'll not be trusting their marketing ever again after all the grief of this build.
> 
> My 13900k, z790 strix-e bios 0806, gskill 7600 build is currently stable with the following:
> 
> Ram:
> Fast boot - disabled
> Xmp off, manual oc 7000 34 43 43 112
> SA - 0.9
> Max SA watts in hwinfo - 9.6w
> IMC - 1.2
> IVR TX vddq - auto (1.40)
> Dram vdd/vddq - 1.40
> PMIC - sync all
> 
> Passes tm5 absolut and 7500 Karhu.
> 
> Once I bump it up to 7200, it can't even pass memtest 9.4 in the bios. What should I change for stable 7200?
> 
> Are the secondary and tertiary timings with Xmp tweaked useful? Or stick to manual with xmp off?
> 
> Should I try bios 0810?


It's all about knowledge, invested time, good imc, good cooling and more time invested.

Many here already got 7600 to 8000mhz stable on z790 Hero.

Qvl doesn't mean 100% working for everyone in every scenario.
Just look at Gigabyte 8000mhz qvl on Z790 master. Noone has seen 8000mhz outside the gigabyte lab 😆


----------



## Nono31

ViTosS said:


> Is that 100% stable? If so, insanely good IMC and RAM OC!


Daily since more than one month. I play fps game with this setting.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Ocfailfish said:


> Asus marketers are snake oil salesmen for advertising 7800+ for 4 slot z790 boards. Even worse is that they list 7800 speed ram in their qvl ram list for those motherboards while knowing full well it's rare to get 7400+ let alone 7800. It's a blatant scam. I'll not be trusting their marketing ever again after all the grief of this build.
> 
> My 13900k, z790 strix-e bios 0806, gskill 7600 build is currently stable with the following:
> 
> Ram:
> Fast boot - disabled
> Xmp off, manual oc 7000 34 43 43 112
> SA - 0.9
> Max SA watts in hwinfo - 9.6w
> IMC - 1.2
> IVR TX vddq - auto (1.40)
> Dram vdd/vddq - 1.40
> PMIC - sync all
> 
> Passes tm5 absolut and 7500 Karhu.
> 
> Once I bump it up to 7200, it can't even pass memtest 9.4 in the bios. What should I change for stable 7200?
> 
> Are the secondary and tertiary timings with Xmp tweaked useful? Or stick to manual with xmp off?
> 
> Should I try bios 0810?


Can you get the 7600 36 46 46 121 1.4v XMP 1 profile to boot with NO CPU OC and TM5 stable?

I have the same Gskill 7600 kit, glad to help if I can. I do know my SA volts is way up at 1.313v applied by the 7600 XMP.

See if you can train the mem kit without applying any OC to your CPU (beyond XMP)

I'm running 0809 and 7600/36 1.4v - 7800/36 1.45v - 8000/36 1.5v TM5 stable, using XMP 1 as template, probably not the most efficient overclock, but it works and can always lower voltages after you reach stability and return to full manual.

Also, I disable MCE and Adaptive Boot Technology for initial mem testing/training - no idea why but it seems to help. All I'm saying is, maybe you're overthinking the process. Try my dummy approach to mem kit overclocking, and see if you get some solid results. 

I mean if nothing else is working, why not give it a try!


----------



## WebsterRKL

Nizzen said:


> It's all about knowledge, invested time, good imc, good cooling and more time invested.
> 
> Many here already got 7600 to 8000mhz stable on z790 Hero.
> 
> Qvl doesn't mean 100% working for everyone in every scenario.
> Just look at Gigabyte 8000mhz qvl on Z790 master. Noone has seen 8000mhz outside the gigabyte lab 😆


I have to compensate for my limited knowledge base by spending more on the motherboard. Might be laughable, yet also very true. lol


----------



## adolf512

I noticed that i am able to push timings a lot lower after i updated bios to A30 and changed voltages to

CPU SA: 1.2 (from 1.17)
CPU VDDQ: 1.26 (from 1.2)
CPU VDD2: 1.4 (from 1.35)
dram VDDQ: 1.4
dram voltage: 1.4

Trying 6436 CL30,38,37,36,36
tREFI: 65000
tRFC2: 535

I still havn't got write bandwidth (aida64) up to 100 GiB/s, off by 0.4%, reducing timings no longer help much there (at least none oof what i tried so far).


----------



## MonkCanatella

Hi all,

I have the G Skill 7600 36 46 46 121 1.4v XMP 1and an Asrock z790 pg-itx/tb4 board. It's only rated for 6800 and it seems as soon as I go a single step above that, the board rejects the OC. I can tighten the timing using the approach I discovered here.

Is it known if any motherboards have a hard limit on ram frequency? I've heard several sources say that asrock boards can't go above the rated frequencies, but the trick I discovered may allow it, as it seems the board will reject a configuration, revert to uefi, and then after manually restarting again, accepts the configuration.


----------



## adolf512

MonkCanatella said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have the G Skill 7600 36 46 46 121 1.4v XMP 1and an Asrock z790 pg-itx/tb4 board. It's only rated for 6800 and it seems as soon as I go a single step above that, the board rejects the OC. I can tighten the timing using the approach I discovered here.
> 
> Is it known if any motherboards have a hard limit on ram frequency? I've heard several sources say that asrock boards can't go above the rated frequencies, but the trick I discovered may allow it, as it seems the board will reject a configuration, revert to uefi, and then after manually restarting again, accepts the configuration.


There might be an issue with signal integrity (motherboard). 

6800 with single rank DDR5 is pretty had. 

You want at least 7200 with single rank and at least 6400 with dual rank. 

I would recommend returning your motherboard if possible.


----------



## TraumatikOC

Ocfailfish said:


> Asus marketers are snake oil salesmen for advertising 7800+ for 4 slot z790 boards. Even worse is that they list 7800 speed ram in their qvl ram list for those motherboards while knowing full well it's rare to get 7400+ let alone 7800. It's a blatant scam. I'll not be trusting their marketing ever again after all the grief of this build.
> 
> My 13900k, z790 strix-e bios 0806, gskill 7600 build is currently stable with the following:
> 
> Ram:
> Fast boot - disabled
> Xmp off, manual oc 7000 34 43 43 112
> SA - 0.9
> Max SA watts in hwinfo - 9.6w
> IMC - 1.2
> IVR TX vddq - auto (1.40)
> Dram vdd/vddq - 1.40
> PMIC - sync all
> 
> Passes tm5 absolut and 7500 Karhu.
> 
> Once I bump it up to 7200, it can't even pass memtest 9.4 in the bios. What should I change for stable 7200?
> 
> Are the secondary and tertiary timings with Xmp tweaked useful? Or stick to manual with xmp off?
> 
> Should I try bios 0810?


And this is directly from Asus product pages .....


----------



## MonkCanatella

adolf512 said:


> There might be an issue with signal integrity (motherboard).
> 
> 6800 with single rank DDR5 is pretty had.
> 
> You want at least 7200 with single rank and at least 6400 with dual rank.
> 
> I would recommend returning your motherboard if possible.


Uff. That's rough. I may try the strix z790 itx board.

What do you mean regarding dual rank/single rank? Are you referring to the specs below? I know most of the time people OC their freqs a lot higher than the board rating. 



- Dual Channel DDR5 Memory Technology
2 x DDR5 DIMM Slots
Supports DDR5 non-ECC, un-buffered memory up to 6800+(OC)
Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) 3.0

*1DPC 1R Up to 6800+ MHz (OC), 5600 MHz Natively.
1DPC 2R Up to 5800+ MHz (OC), 5200 MHz Natively.


----------



## Thunderclap

asdkj1740 said:


> 7800mhz on aorus elite, same gskill sticks.
> you dont need to mess with dram voltages, if you are already having so many errors at the begining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 技嘉DDR5超頻太易玩了 Z790 AORUS ELITE AX二千蚊之光 - 悠二硬件Yujihw
> 
> 
> DDR5 OC ! 上一篇關於DDR5超頻的文章好像沒什麼人看，VIEW數少得可憐。YUJIHW的傳統就是越少
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yujihw.com


That is _very _impressive, considering it's a 6 layer 4 dimm $250 board. Is it actually fully stable at 7600-7800? Google translate is kinda hit & miss when having to translate articles like this. The only other Z790 4 dimm board I've seen run 7600-7800 fully stable is the Z790 HERO, and that board costs like 3x the price of the Z790 Aorus Elite.


----------



## adolf512

MonkCanatella said:


> Uff. That's rough. I may try the strix z790 itx board.
> 
> What do you mean regarding dual rank/single rank? Are you referring to the specs below? I know most of the time people OC their freqs a lot higher than the board rating.
> 
> 
> 
> - Dual Channel DDR5 Memory Technology
> 2 x DDR5 DIMM Slots
> Supports DDR5 non-ECC, un-buffered memory up to 6800+(OC)
> Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) 3.0
> 
> *1DPC 1R Up to 6800+ MHz (OC), 5600 MHz Natively.
> 1DPC 2R Up to 5800+ MHz (OC), 5200 MHz Natively.


1DPC 2R = 2x32 (dual rank)

It's a bad idea betting on clocking higher than what your board offically supports, often whem you try that you run into strange stability issues.


----------



## MonkCanatella

adolf512 said:


> It's a bad idea betting on clocking higher than what your board offically supports, often whem you try that you run into strange stability issues.


I should have been more clear! I'm using the 2x16 kit. 32gb total ram on two sticks. I've been seeing that most of the posts here are OCing higher than the boards rated limits.


----------



## opt33

Ocfailfish said:


> Asus marketers are snake oil salesmen for advertising 7800+ for 4 slot z790 boards. Even worse is that they list 7800 speed ram in their qvl ram list for those motherboards while knowing full well it's rare to get 7400+ let alone 7800. It's a blatant scam. I'll not be trusting their marketing ever again after all the grief of this build.
> 
> My 13900k, z790 strix-e bios 0806, gskill 7600 build is currently stable with the following:


No doubt easier on 2 dimm boards, but 7600-7800 still doable on 4 dimm. I have asus hero z790 and TG 7600 kit, no trouble getting it 4 hours karhu stable, tm5 stable at 7800c34, and been playing games without issue for almost a week.

But 4 dimm boards need higher voltages. Im using 1.38 imc, 1.48 ivr tx vddq for 7800. SA 1.25. If I used your sa or imc or ivr tx, I would error instantly at 7600-7800. And for gaming, I always need higher ivr tx so bumped it to 1.50 before even tried gaming, so far no issue. Also im using bitspower heatsinks, temps are an issue at higher voltages, ie get locked into too low voltage is unstable, too high and heat causing instability.


----------



## xpulse

Nizzen said:


> It's all about knowledge, invested time, good imc, good cooling and more time invested.
> 
> Many here already got 7600 to 8000mhz stable on z790 Hero.
> 
> Qvl doesn't mean 100% working for everyone in every scenario.
> Just look at Gigabyte 8000mhz qvl on Z790 master. Noone has seen 8000mhz outside the gigabyte lab 😆


Own Gigabyte z790 master and max I can get from 7600 A-die set is 7500.


----------



## adolf512

I checked y-cruncher, passed 2 hours after i increased tRCDW from 36 to 37

I might settle for that oc for now and wait for the next bios update.



MonkCanatella said:


> I should have been more clear! I'm using the 2x16 kit. 32gb total ram on two sticks. I've been seeing that most of the posts here are OCing higher than the boards rated limits.


Yea i know, that's single rank.

Already told you to get return the motherboard if possible.

Let me guess: you are not actually stable at 6800.


----------



## MonkCanatella

adolf512 said:


> Yea i know, that's single rank.
> 
> Already told you to get return the motherboard if possible.
> 
> Let me guess: you are not actually stable at 6800.


It's unfortunately not possible to return it but I do have the msi z790 mpg edge as well and it ran xmp, but I didn't do any stability testing as that board doesn't have tb ports and that's actually necessary for the reason I created the computer in the first place. So Unfortunately I had to downgrade to the . Though I wonder what I'm actually missing if they're going from 7600 down to 6800mhz. And yeah it does run stable at 6800 but I'd love if I was able to get up to 7600. There are so many options on the asrock bios, it's hard to know what I'm doing is correct or not. Unfortunately the board is super new and I've been unable to find hardly any information on it. I've been trying to work with their tech support but it seems like they have their slowest dude on it. Just told me to try vdd_cpu to 1.4, set xmp 1, and loosen timings bit by bit. Which I've been working on all day. Not even able to get 7000 so I do wonder if there's a hard limit on this motherboard.


----------



## xpulse

xpulse said:


> Own Gigabyte z790 master and max I can get from 7600 A-die set is 7500.


Tomorrow will go to MicroCenter to change my 7600 set to 7800. At this moment 7800 ram kit costs cheaper compared with the original price of the 7600 kit.


----------



## adolf512

MonkCanatella said:


> It's unfortunately not possible to return it but I do have the msi z790 mpg edge as well and it ran xmp, but I didn't do any stability testing as that board doesn't have tb ports and that's actually necessary for the reason I created the computer in the first place. So Unfortunately I had to downgrade to the . Though I wonder what I'm actually missing if they're going from 7600 down to 6800mhz. And yeah it does run stable at 6800 but I'd love if I was able to get up to 7600. There are so many options on the asrock bios, it's hard to know what I'm doing is correct or not. Unfortunately the board is super new and I've been unable to find hardly any information on it. I've been trying to work with their tech support but it seems like they have their slowest dude on it. Just told me to try vdd_cpu to 1.4, set xmp 1, and loosen timings bit by bit. Which I've been working on all day. Not even able to get 7000 so I do wonder if there's a hard limit on this motherboard.


Maybe you can sell these 2 boards and get one good one?

Could a thunderbolt adapter be an option for you?

I don't have any recommendation yet though, the z790 platform is bad in general. You are buying into a bad platform (especially for the price) becuase you want raptor lake (becuase zen4 sucks and no good HEDT option atm).

My msi z790-p is good in terms of connectivity but not overclocking it seems (couldn't get 2x32 y-cruncher stable above 6436)


----------



## MonkCanatella

adolf512 said:


> Maybe you can sell these 2 boards and get one good one?
> 
> Could a thunderbolt adapter be an option for you?
> 
> I don't have any recommendation yet though, the z790 platform is bad in general. You are buying into a bad platform (especially for the price) becuase you want raptor lake (becuase zen4 sucks and no good HEDT option atm).
> 
> My msi z790-p is good in terms of connectivity but not overclocking it seems (couldn't get 2x32 y-cruncher stable above 6436)


The problem is that my case is the formd T1 and it only accepts itx boards and I need a 10gb connection between the pc and my NAS.

I run a 13900k and 4090 fe in there, so space is very tight already. I have the qnap tb3 to 10gbe adapter, but I don't think there's a way to run that without thunderbolt, thus the need for the asrock board that i'm currently using.

as for the motherboard options, there's not many compatible motherboards that are itx.

There's not many good itx motherboard options if you want a 13900k. That's why I'm trying to squeeze the maximum possible out of my asrock board.

My other alternative is to use the msi board and see if I can use the pci 3 m2 slot on the back of the board and an adapter to either run a 10gbe rj45 nic card or a card that supports thunderbolt which I could then use to run the tb - 10gb adapter.


----------



## asdkj1740

Thunderclap said:


> That is _very _impressive, considering it's a 6 layer 4 dimm $250 board. Is it actually fully stable at 7600-7800? Google translate is kinda hit & miss when having to translate articles like this. The only other Z790 4 dimm board I've seen run 7600-7800 fully stable is the Z790 HERO, and that board costs like 3x the price of the Z790 Aorus Elite.


ppl all over the world are posting 100% passed only, so when you see 4000% passed on memtestpro 7.0, you know that is insane.
however pushing the mobo to its extreme should expect some kind of instability after reboot, that is a thing since 11th.
for 6 layers 4dimm mobos, 7600mhz is already quite high, 7800mhz is just for fun.

i also saw some msi pro a and asus prime p can do 7600mhz (~100% passed), so in my opinion since z790 hero are not cheap at all i would go for apex instead with the same amount of money.
a good combination with hero can do 8000, the best one can do 8200. cpu imc dictates all.


----------



## asdkj1740

MonkCanatella said:


> It's unfortunately not possible to return it but I do have the msi z790 mpg edge as well and it ran xmp, but I didn't do any stability testing as that board doesn't have tb ports and that's actually necessary for the reason I created the computer in the first place. So Unfortunately I had to downgrade to the . Though I wonder what I'm actually missing if they're going from 7600 down to 6800mhz. And yeah it does run stable at 6800 but I'd love if I was able to get up to 7600. There are so many options on the asrock bios, it's hard to know what I'm doing is correct or not. Unfortunately the board is super new and I've been unable to find hardly any information on it. I've been trying to work with their tech support but it seems like they have their slowest dude on it. Just told me to try vdd_cpu to 1.4, set xmp 1, and loosen timings bit by bit. Which I've been working on all day. Not even able to get 7000 so I do wonder if there's a hard limit on this motherboard.


tb port means thunderbolt?
maybe you should wait for the sales about z690 aero d or other z690 with tb onboard.
buying an external tb pcie add in card is another option?


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> It's all about knowledge, invested time, good imc, good cooling and more time invested.
> 
> Many here already got 7600 to 8000mhz stable on z790 Hero.
> 
> Qvl doesn't mean 100% working for everyone in every scenario.
> Just look at Gigabyte 8000mhz qvl on Z790 master. Noone has seen 8000mhz outside the gigabyte lab 😆


i will try to get an aorus master and show you.


----------



## MonkCanatella

asdkj1740 said:


> tb port means thunderbolt?
> maybe you should wait for the sales about z690 aero d or other z690 with tb onboard.
> buying an external tb pcie add in card is another option?


I do have a msi z790 mpg edge which runs xmp quite well. But to use that, I need some way to get a 10gb connection to it, and it's lacking thunderbolt ports. It doesn't appear that any usb c to 10gbe adapters exist either or that would be the ultimate option. The other choice is to convert the pci 3 m2 slot on the back of the msi board into a pcie slot using and adt adapter. But then that defeats the point of having the m2 slot. It's like a game of tradeoffs. The other option is the strix z790i gaming. It would be a lot better than either of the boards but my initial hesitation and reason I didn't just buy it in the first place was due to only having 2 m2 slots. But it has thunderbolt ports, will OC my cpu better than the asrock most likely, and the ram is on the qvl, so it's an attractive option. Unfotunately it's ****ing $700 in Mexico and I won't be traveling back to america any time soon.

All this over 800mhz of ram frequency :/


----------



## fak

hey everyone, I have a z790-e strix board and a 13900k paired with gskill ddr5 7200 cl34, I'm within the exchange period, was wondering should I swap them for the gskill 7800 kit? It's not much more money but a bit higher CAS latency, wanted people's opinions before I make the change (not even sure if the 7800 would run but the 7200 runs no issues) P core SP 106 E Core SP 78


----------



## mikasalo500

does anyone know how to remove the heatsinks from the teamgroup ram?


----------



## asdkj1740

mikasalo500 said:


> does anyone know how to remove the heatsinks from the teamgroup ram?


well built heatsink wont fall off itself.
you have to heat it up externally.


----------



## pipes

since I'm reading some datasheet to understand the relative voltages of the 13th series. the voltage vdd2 voltage (IMC voltage), how much do you keep it? on the datasheet it has a maximum of 1,116+4.5%


----------



## adolf512

Wouldn't surprise me if some other stresstesting software finds instability after this:


----------



## morph.

OC2000 said:


> crazy 8000 solid as a rock, 8200, 8267, 8400 CL 36(solid until next day) and yet this is my result from this IMC.
> 
> 
> 
> Think my IMC just won't take 8200+


dud you disable fastboot to let ur memory train better/more?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

anyone know where to buy just 1 stick of green stick a die in the us?


----------



## Groove2013

skullbringer said:


> binned yeah, but not top bin by any means. best imc out of 14 and best 2 memory modules out of 4 (hynix oem 5600 jedec). most I can stabilize with bclk is actually like 7930 on the hero (vst + karhu + tm5)
> 
> so if strix clocks as good as hero and you have a good imc and a highly binned a-die kit, you might be able to do 8000 stable. but honeslty I havent kept up with how well strix boards do compared to maximus
> 
> @Groove2013


I wonder whether it's worth it to go for like 7800-8000 MHz DDR5 vs. current 4300 MHz 15-16-15 and Strix E vs. Strix A D4.


----------



## Groove2013

fak said:


> hey everyone, I have a z790-e strix board and a 13900k paired with gskill ddr5 7200 cl34, I'm within the exchange period, was wondering should I swap them for the gskill 7800 kit? It's not much more money but a bit higher CAS latency, wanted people's opinions before I make the change (not even sure if the 7800 would run but the 7200 runs no issues) P core SP 106 E Core SP 78


definitely!


----------



## OC2000

morph. said:


> dud you disable fastboot to let ur memory train better/more?


Tried every combo possible. Fast boot disabled with full mem check. Every combination of VDD/VDDQ (DDR / CPU) voltages.
Could one day run 8400 CL34 stable, next day not boot it at all then the same with 8400/8267/8200 lose timings. 8000 with tight settings has been stable for 2 days in a row now, so definitely down to IMC as I have tried both TG 7200 and G Skill 8000 sticks


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> Tried every combo possible. Fast boot disabled with full mem check. Every combination of VDD/VDDQ (DDR / CPU) voltages.
> Could one day run 8400 CL34 stable, next day not boot it at all then the same with 8400/8267/8200 lose timings. 8000 with tight settings has been stable for 2 days in a row now, so definitely down to IMC as I have tried both TG 7200 and G Skill 8000 sticks


Could you please try something?
Check the ODT values in OCtool (it is in Intel ---> mem timings menu) before stress testing. I am in the same boat as you, struggling to stabilise 7800 on my Hero. It was okay yesterday, today it was instant error after boot. Even with clear CMOS before. I assume it is related to the ODT training. Maybe you can compare all values. If there is difference maybe you can catch it.
Now I played with the voltages, it seems stable and got these: (the values looking like I have 3 dimms installed, but I have 2...)


Spoiler



=============================================================================================





tRPab_ext 0


tPPD 4


trefsbrd_A0 59


trefsbrd 118





=============================================================================================





reset_on_command 0


reset_delay 0


tCAL 0


tXPDLL 63


tXP 26


tAONPD 0


tZQCS 124


oref_ri 64


refresh_hp_wm 6


refresh_panic_wm 7


tREFIx9 255


tXSDLL 2048


tZQOPER 0


tMOD 61


Ref_interval 0


Ref_stagger_en 0


ref_stagger_mode 0


Disable_stolen_refresh 0


en_ref_type_display 1


ODT_Read_Duration 0


ODT_Read_Delay 0


ODT_Write_Duration 0


ODT_Write_Delay 0


dis_odt 0


dis_async_odt 0


Write_Early_ODT 0





=============================================================================================





Dis_Opp_rd 0


ACT_Enable 1


PRE_Enable 1


MAX_RPQ_CAS 10


Power Down 0


PDWN_idle_counter 32


APD 0


PPD 0


Global_PD  0


TT_idle_counter 0


dis_cke_tt 1





=============================================================================================





Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R0 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R1 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R2 69


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R3 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R4 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R5 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R6 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH0 R7 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R0 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R1 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R2 63


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R3 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R4 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R5 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R6 25


Round Trip Latency MC0 CH1 R7 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R0 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R1 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R2 70


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R3 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R4 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R5 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R6 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH0 R7 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R0 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R1 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R2 64


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R3 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R4 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R5 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R6 25


Round Trip Latency MC1 CH1 R7 25








DIMM A2 A6 AE


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pull-up Output Driver 40Ohms 40Ohms 34Ohms


Pull-dn Output Driver 34Ohms 34Ohms 34Ohms


CK ODT Disabled Disabled Disabled


CS ODT 240Ohms 240Ohms Disabled


CA ODT 60Ohms 60Ohms Disabled


DQS RTT PARK Disabled Disabled Disabled


DQ RTT PARK Disabled Disabled Disabled


DQ RTT WR Disabled Disabled Disabled


DQ RTT NOM WR Disabled  Disabled Disabled


DQ RTT NOM RD Disabled Disabled Disabled


RTT Loopback Disabled Disabled Disabled


----------



## OC2000

tibcsi0407 said:


> Could you please try something?
> Check the ODT values in OCtool (it is in Intel ---> mem timings menu) before stress testing. I am in the same boat as you, struggling to stabilise 7800 on my Hero. It was okay yesterday, today it was instant error after boot. Even with clear CMOS before. I assume it is related to the ODT training. Maybe you can compare all values. If there is difference maybe you can catch it.


OK, what would you like me to check with the OCtool.
What I have noticed in the 3 weeks ive spent trying to stabilise 8200/8400 memory is, if it responds this way, or if adding voltage, playing around with tx and imc voltages does nothing. You MB or CPU can't handle that speed. Getting 8000 CL32 stable was a matter of increasing VDD/VDDQ voltages 0.1 at a time until stable. Started with 1.59/1.57 and increasing 0.1 reduced the errors until 1.63/1.60 and now stable. Trying to get 8200+ stable was going back and forth and trying different combinations and lowering certain timings which would then suddenly work, and then next day not.


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> OK, what would you like me to check with the OCtool.
> What I have noticed in the 3 weeks ive spent trying to stabilise 8200/8400 memory is, if it responds this way, or if adding voltage, playing around with tx and imc voltages does nothing. You MB or CPU can't handle that speed. Getting 8000 CL32 stable was a matter of increasing VDD/VDDQ voltages 0.1 at a time until stable. Started with 1.59/1.57 and increasing 0.1 reduced the errors until 1.63/1.60 and now stable. Trying to get 8200+ stable was going back and forth and trying different combinations and lowering certain timings which would then suddenly work, and then next day not.


That's what you should compare. Save a TXT like this from the stable RAMtest, then save one from the unstable and compare them. If there is a difference in ODT's, or auto timings you will be able to find the issue.
Now you have higher impedance in the closer socket.


----------



## OC2000

tibcsi0407 said:


> That's what you should compare. Save a TXT like this from the stable RAMtest, then save one from the unstable and compare them. If there is a difference in ODT's, or auto timings you will be able to find the issue.
> Now you have higher impedance in the closer socket.


Would that mean one stick is better than the other? I assume that's the 480 ohms vs 240 ohms?


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> Would that mean one stick is better than the other? I assume that's the 480 ohms vs 240 ohms?


The closer socket is the worst AFAIK. It trains differently. For me sometimes I get the same impedances and sometimes they aren't equal.
Actually you can also try to swap the dimms to see the difference.
I think it's stable then it should be stable with the same settings on the next day. It won't be if the settings aren't the same.
That's why I hate that ASUS BIOS doesn't show you these values. We could fix them manually...


----------



## amethy

[引用=“声学，帖子：29086324，成员：628234”]
A81是BETA版本。A8是官方的。没有人知道为什么它被从网站上撤下，但它已经消失了几天了。我们中的一些人遇到了问题（随机重启，更差的内存兼容性等）。假设它是出于这个原因而拉的，但没有人确切知道。

仍然希望MSI有一个与社区合作的Shamino类型的人。
[/引用]
MSI's engineer TOPCC often communicates with netizens, he is the MSI motherboard responsible for BIOS tuning and testing. Although his colleagues upload his videos to YouTube, he is generally only active on Chinese networks, as well as QQ or WeChat. If you have any questions about MSI's BIOS, you can contact me and I will help you relay it to TOPPC


----------



## amethy

tibcsi0407 said:


> The closer socket is the worst AFAIK. It trains differently. For me sometimes I get the same impedances and sometimes they aren't equal.
> Actually you can also try to swap the dimms to see the difference.


Hello, how should I check the ODT value trained by the motherboard? This is hidden in the BIOS, and so far I don't know what the default ODT value of ADIE is, which seems to have touched the secret of board factory tuning


----------



## tibcsi0407

amethy said:


> Hello, how should I check the ODT value trained by the motherboard? This is hidden in the BIOS, and so far I don't know what the default ODT value of ADIE is, which seems to have touched the secret of board factory tuning


You need ASUS octool for that. I don't know if it's reliable or not.


----------



## OC2000

Just disabled fastboot and enabled full mem check. Had to raise CL32 to 34 to boot this time. But here are new ODT values

Just reset it to CL32 and have retained 240 ohms on both sticks this time. Will redo a quick stability to see if an error happens.


----------



## amethy

[引用=“紫水晶，帖子：29100609，成员：665192”]
如果您对微星的BIOS有任何疑问，可以与我联系，我将帮助您将其转发给TOPPC
[/引用]


rs199208 said:


> ok ill wait see what happens.
> on 81 i couldn't get 7600 stable.
> waiting for microcenter to get the new apex if i don't get the new dark.


you need a81u4


----------



## energie80

amethy said:


> [引用=“声学，帖子：29086324，成员：628234”]
> A81是BETA版本。A8是官方的。没有人知道为什么它被从网站上撤下，但它已经消失了几天了。我们中的一些人遇到了问题（随机重启，更差的内存兼容性等）。假设它是出于这个原因而拉的，但没有人确切知道。
> 
> 仍然希望MSI有一个与社区合作的Shamino类型的人。
> [/引用]
> MSI's engineer TOPCC often communicates with netizens, he is the MSI motherboard responsible for BIOS tuning and testing. Although his colleagues upload his videos to YouTube, he is generally only active on Chinese networks, as well as QQ or WeChat. If you have any questions about MSI's BIOS, you can contact me and I will help you relay it to TOPPC


Need 8000 ddr5 support for unify x 😢
Can’t go past 7600, not even 1 mhz


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> Just disabled fastboot and enabled full mem check. Had to raise CL32 to 34 to boot this time. But here are new ODT values
> 
> Just reset it to CL32 and have retained 240 ohms on both sticks this time. Will redo a quick stability to see if an error happens.


That's quite inconsistent. Do you have Asus profile enabled in training or standard is used?
I wish someone would give me a detailed guide how to tune ODT and RTT. That would be awesome!


----------



## amethy

energie80 said:


> Need 8000 ddr5 support for unify x 😢
> Can’t go past 7600, not even 1 mhz
> [/引用]
> My friend seems to be able to run tests at 8000mhz and more than one. you Need a better IMC?


----------



## OC2000

tibcsi0407 said:


> That's quite inconsistent. Do you have Asus profile enabled in training or standard is used?
> I wish someone would give me a detailed guide how to tune ODT and RTT. That would be awesome!


Passed the mem stability again with both at 240 Ohm. Using Auto for training so not sure which one it choses. Im not sure even an MC SP rating can gauge what speeds you can get as I have seen people with similar to mine (MC SP 72) stable at 8267. 

Best thing you can do I think to see if you are at a speed limitation is put really loose timings i.e. 38 - 49/50s for the others and see if it is stable after a day or two. I found no matter how loose my timings were over 8000 it would causes this weird instability we experienced.


----------



## Gen.

Fantastic Hynix M-Die OEM.


----------



## Gen.

After all, which is faster 7400-7600C32 M-Die or 8200-8400C34 A-Die?


----------



## fak

Groove2013 said:


> definitely!


I did some testing and just changed the cl to 36 and increased the frequency to 7800 and kept everything else as the XMP settings, it boots and passes TM5 extreme anta777 with no issue as well as AIDA, should I still go ahead and exchange the 7200 kit for the 7800 kit?

just an update, on test 1 it shows red and it spat out 1 error, so far that's the only error and its on test 15, but it didnt spit the error until it hit test 14 I'm pretty sure and it happened when my computer screen turned off for power saving I forgot to set power option to high performance before the test it's on balanced. I think if I increased the voltage a bit or maybe even tried to tighten timings it would be stable but what do you think? Should I just opt to exchange for the 7800 kit?


----------



## Nizzen

Gen. said:


> After all, which is faster 7400-7600C32 M-Die or 8200-8400C34 A-Die?


If you can run trfc 300 on 7600 m-die, it will be close


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> Passed the mem stability again with both at 240 Ohm. Using Auto for training so not sure which one it choses. Im not sure even an MC SP rating can gauge what speeds you can get as I have seen people with similar to mine (MC SP 72) stable at 8267.
> 
> Best thing you can do I think to see if you are at a speed limitation is put really loose timings i.e. 38 - 49/50s for the others and see if it is stable after a day or two. I found no matter how loose my timings were over 8000 it would causes this weird instability we experienced.


Could be your sticks too. Do you have contactframe?


----------



## energie80

as i siad my system doesnt handle 1 mhz more then 7600 like there is a wall somewhere, hope its a bios problem


----------



## amethy

z690unify-x


----------



## energie80

amethy said:


> z690unify-x


Tried this already and no luck 😞


----------



## asdkj1740

amethy said:


> z690unify-x


maybe you should ask toppc to release a new beta bios for unify x, a81u4 is quite old.


----------



## energie80

They are incredibly slow with bios 😵‍💫


----------



## amethy

asdkj1740 said:


> maybe you should ask toppc to release a new beta bios for unify x, a81u4 is quite old.


~~~Their center of gravity is on the Z790 and the 690 is a low priority. In fact, ASUS is also like this


----------



## energie80

amethy said:


> ~~~Their center of gravity is on the Z790 and the 690 is a low priority. In fact, ASUS is also like this


There is no z790 unify x 🫣


----------



## amethy

energie80 said:


> There is no z790 unify x 🫣


depending on the market sector of MSI, engineering samples are done very early.


----------



## MonkCanatella

I have a general question regarding ram - My speed is around 100GB/s and latency around 60-70. Since my nvme drives max out at a theoretical 7GB/s, what benefit do i have from tweaking/OCing my ram up to 110-120GB/s? Considering the ram has to read the contents from somwhere, where does the benefit of the extra 10-20GB/s come from?


----------



## adolf512

MonkCanatella said:


> I have a general question regarding ram - My speed is around 100GB/s and latency around 60-70. Since my nvme drives max out at a theoretical 7GB/s, what benefit do i have from tweaking/OCing my ram up to 110-120GB/s? Considering the ram has to read the contents from somwhere, where does the benefit of the extra 10-20GB/s come from?


The bandwidth is needed when reading/writing beyween the CPU and ram.

You might also benefit from the bandwidth when sending data between dram and the vram. A tuned 3090 4090 has over 1TiB/s in vram bandwidth


----------



## adolf512

I still havn't gotten write bandwidth above 100 GiB/s


----------



## asdkj1740

amethy said:


> ~~~Their center of gravity is on the Z790 and the 690 is a low priority. In fact, ASUS is also like this


but there is no z790 unify x. 
apex z790 has new beta bios every few days, are you sure mentioning asus would do you any good?
btw z790 tachyon has only one bios , the official f1 only, so msi still wins this.


----------



## amethy

asdkj1740 said:


> but there is no z790 unify x.
> apex z790 has new beta bios every few days, are you sure mentioning asus would do you any good?
> btw z790 tachyon has only one bios , the official f1 only, so msi still wins this.


I don't seem to mention the 790asus?

I sincerely wish that your apex will not 00,23,55,99.

asus，win！


----------



## Cjceeez

happy holidays everyone!

any suggestions for the build below? trying to increase stability, retain 7800mhz.

thank you.


----------



## asdkj1740

amethy said:


> I don't seem to mention the 790asus?
> 
> I sincerely wish that your apex will not 00,23,55,99.
> 
> asus，win！


seriously?
whats wrong with z690 unifyx users asking for a new beta bios? what makes you curse apex users...
so apex users are too strong and unifyx z690 users are too weak, as a result msi stops making z790 unifyx?


----------



## sniperpowa

mikasalo500 said:


> does anyone know how to remove the heatsinks from the teamgroup ram?


soak them in acetone or equivalent. Remove with hands by gently pulling you can rip a IC out so be gentle if it doesn't come apart give it more time.


----------



## OC2000

tibcsi0407 said:


> Could be your sticks too. Do you have contactframe?


No removed that. Waiting on a flat plate for the magnitude and then will try it again. I noticed no difference with or without it. I have tried 2 sets of sticks so thinking its down to IMC. Will try the KS to know for sure. No doubt there will be 8200+ XMP later in the year too.


----------



## baileya1c

sniperpowa said:


> soak them in acetone or equivalent. Remove with hands by gently pulling you can rip a IC out so be gentle if it doesn't come apart give it more time.


I used acetone. Just make sure you use some compressed air to blow the sticks dry. After I pulled them out of the acetone and let them dryI thought they were dry but decided to blow them dry to be sure. A lot of liquid came flying out from under the ICs. So glad I blew them dry and didn’t put them in my rig.


----------



## skullbringer

Groove2013 said:


> I wonder whether it's worth it to go for like 7800-8000 MHz DDR5 vs. current 4300 MHz 15-16-15 and Strix E vs. Strix A D4.


I mean depends on the application and if it's a game what gpu and resolution. In bandwidth hungry usecases you will see a noticable bump in perf, but those are quite rare fme.


----------



## amethy

asdkj1740 said:


> Z690 UnifyX用户要求新的测试版BIOS有什么问题？是什么让你诅咒 APEX 用户...





asdkj1740 said:


> seriously?
> whats wrong with z690 unifyx users asking for a new beta bios? what makes you curse apex users...
> so apex users are too strong and unifyx z690 users are too weak, as a result msi stops making z790 unifyx?


Do you have some persecution paranoia? Did I mention the Z790APEX, or even any Z790 Asus motherboard? What makes you feel stressed when you see ASUS? Z790APEX is very strong, that's right, if he doesn't blow up the player's CPU, he doesn't have quality problems, he won't get his hands on it is bad. Why do I know this? Because I also have Z790APEX, thanks.So it's not a curse


----------



## amethy

asdkj1740 said:


> seriously?
> whats wrong with z690 unifyx users asking for a new beta bios? what makes you curse apex users...
> so apex users are too strong and unifyx z690 users are too weak, as a result msi stops making z790 unifyx?


Also, does using the Z790APEX compare the UX of the Z690 to give you any sense of superiority? Why not compare with 690APEX? Is it because you don't want to do it?


----------



## amethy

asdkj1740 said:


> seriously?
> whats wrong with z690 unifyx users asking for a new beta bios? what makes you curse apex users...
> so apex users are too strong and unifyx z690 users are too weak, as a result msi stops making z790 unifyx?


Here are my APEX scores. So, what else do you want to say? Am I biased against APEX users?


----------



## acoustic

amethy said:


> z690unify-x


That build is older than A8 official on the MSI website. A81U4 has been out a long time.

We are over-due for a new beta at this point. MSI can “focus” on Z790 all they want, but there has been zero rumors of a Z790 Unify-X, so hopefully they aren’t abandoning the Z690 UX..


----------



## QXE

acoustic said:


> That build is older than A8 official on the MSI website. A81U4 has been out a long time.
> 
> We are over-due for a new beta at this point. MSI can “focus” on Z790 all they want, but there has been zero rumors of a Z790 Unify-X, so hopefully they aren’t abandoning the Z690 UX..











this was the last I heard about a new bios for the unify x.


----------



## fak

went ahead and ordered the 7800 gskill kit, when it arrives I'll pop it in and if it works @ xmp I'll return the 7200 although I'm pretty sure I could have tightened the timings on the 7200 sticks a bit and maybe a slight bump in voltage and it would run no issues at c36 7800, ran into some testmem and memtest errors both really late in the tests when just setting xmp and then changing freq to 7800 and cl to 36, hoping for the best on this z790-e board wish me luck guys haha


----------



## Kindredice

Does anyone have the Msi z790i Edge v1.23 bios? They replaced it with the 1.20 and I can't find the 1.23 anywhere. 1.20 freezes in bios.


----------



## amethy

Kindredice said:


> Does anyone have the Msi z790i Edge v1.23 bios? They replaced it with the 1.20 and I can't find the 1.23 anywhere. 1.20 freezes in bios.


----------



## Groove2013

skullbringer said:


> I mean depends on the application and if it's a game what gpu and resolution. In bandwidth hungry usecases you will see a noticable bump in perf, but those are quite rare fme.


3090 Ti OC and 1440p currently, but will get a 4K monitor.
playing mostly CPU limited games.
So no benefit from 7800-8000 MHz vs. 4300 MHz CL15 then? or only marginal, at best?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

amethy said:


> Here are my APEX scores. So, what else do you want to say? Am I biased against APEX users?



I notice that your voltage for your memory and imc are similar to what mine like voltage wise per channel. On auto the settings the voltages are all out of whack and in sync with each other which makes everything unstable. I'm working on getting everything stable at 7600 right now by controlling all voltages myself and progressing.


----------



## rs199208

athenaesword said:


> hi, just reading the last couple pages of this thread. is the general recommendation with 13900k/z790 to skip the contact frame? i have the TR one and going to start building tomorrow.


there are people who had issues with the frames. seen some that lost memory channels and other problems that they blamed on the frame. one was talking to me directly in another forum and thought his cpu went bad but turned out it was the frame.
some that didn't have issues looking at the replies here to you. either way myself, i wouldn't trust messing with the ilm to never cause a issue which is why you must be careful how it's tighten it down otherwise just going by luck.
i used the washers in the beginning but i wasn't pushing ram clocks then so had no issues.


----------



## amethy

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I notice that your voltage for your memory and imc are similar to what mine like voltage wise per channel. On auto the settings the voltages are all out of whack and in sync with each other which makes everything unstable. I'm working on getting everything stable at 7600 right now by controlling all voltages myself and progressing.


I seem to have heard from friends that there is a strange phenomenon of IVR synchronizing with DRAM VDDQ on ASUS4DIMM motherboards, but this is not the case on M15A


----------



## rs199208

amethy said:


> [引用=“紫水晶，帖子：29100609，成员：665192”]
> 如果您对微星的BIOS有任何疑问，可以与我联系，我将帮助您将其转发给TOPPC
> [/引用]
> 
> you need a81u4





amethy said:


> [引用=“紫水晶，帖子：29100609，成员：665192”]
> 如果您对微星的BIOS有任何疑问，可以与我联系，我将帮助您将其转发给TOPPC
> [/引用]
> 
> you need a81u4


as far as i understand, that's not the bios i'm looking for...
i made up my mind and getting the Z790 Apex once the next batch is out in Jan. i have parts laying all around my pc waiting to be tested before i give up on the unifyX though.


----------



## Kindredice

You made my day! Thank you and Merry Christmas.


----------



## Bilco

So I was gifted a kit of 7200mhz hynix-A die modules. Is this z690 apex able to run it or should I just spring for a z690 unify? Any suggestions?


----------



## energie80

No one can answer 😅 2021 apex could have a problem


----------



## bscool

Bilco said:


> So I was gifted a kit of 7200mhz hynix-A die modules. Is this z690 apex able to run it or should I just spring for a z690 unify? Any suggestions?


My 2021 Apex wont run over 6400 stable even with A die. 2022 Apex will do 7000 with M die and 7600 with A die.


----------



## Bilco

Well I guess we will roll the dice in a day or so and see!


----------



## bscool

Kindredice said:


> Does anyone have the Msi z790i Edge v1.23 bios? They replaced it with the 1.20 and I can't find the 1.23 anywhere. 1.20 freezes in bios.


Here is a new one, if you haven't tried E7E03IMS.124U2


----------



## rulik006

bscool said:


> @skullbringer Has some coming and will be testing them.


since skullbringer can't buy them because of retailer import delay, plus no one here didnt want to buy new Crucial rev.G
I contacted with a guy from TechPowerUp and review of Crucial 5600 will be there


----------



## Cjceeez

any suggestions to stabilize these speeds?


----------



## MisterSheikh

G Skill 7200 c34 2x16 a-die oced to 8000 c36 on the z790 Apex. tWTR_L could be lower but I just wanted a config to use for benching.

I benched 2 x 32GB DDR4 Micron Rev.B 3200 c16 oced to 4400 c16 1T gear1 with tight timings as I could get to compare with this config and my 7400 c34 config on the Strix E.
I think the results are going to shock some people. Will compile them all later and then make a post.


----------



## Nizzen

Cjceeez said:


> any suggestions to stabilize these speeds?
> 
> View attachment 2590607


Rule nr 1 when overclocking: Throw temperarture out of the equation 
Hold temperature under 40c when stresstesting. Add direct fan over the dimms.


----------



## xpulse

Have an issue with 7800 c36 GSkill on Aorus Master z790
XMP not working
Auto: 7800/7700/7600/7500/7400 booting to OS, none of the tests can't be bypassed. 
Errors are all over the place.

Before owning the 6800 c34, overclocked to 7333 without any issues on the same MB and CPU.

Something definitely not right... Not sure what exactly.


----------



## bhav

Anyone know what ICs these might be?









EXPERT DESKTOP DDR5


The T-CREATE EXPERT DDR5 Memory's professional cooling design delivers stable performance, larger capacities, faster processing speeds, and next-level multitasking.




www.teamgroupinc.com





I just found my favourite heatspreaders.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Hold temperature under 40c when stresstesting. Add direct fan over the dimms.


Are DDR5 sticks more sensitive to temperature than DDR4? My DDR4 sticks hit about 46C under load, and that is with a 140mm fan directly over them. No problems.


----------



## tibcsi0407

bhav said:


> Anyone know what ICs these might be?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXPERT DESKTOP DDR5
> 
> 
> The T-CREATE EXPERT DDR5 Memory's professional cooling design delivers stable performance, larger capacities, faster processing speeds, and next-level multitasking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.teamgroupinc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just found my favourite heatspreaders.


Looks nice for air cooling. You can even put a water block on the top I believe, since it's flat.


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Are DDR5 sticks more sensitive to temperature than DDR4? My DDR4 sticks hit about 46C under load, and that is with a 140mm fan directly over them. No problems.


Up to 50c it deams to be no problem. Pushing limits like 8400, and low is better. Like under 30c. Colder is allways better


----------



## Nizzen

xpulse said:


> Have an issue with 7800 c36 GSkill on Aorus Master z790
> XMP not working
> Auto: 7800/7700/7600/7500/7400 booting to OS, none of the tests can't be bypassed.
> Errors are all over the place.
> 
> Before owning the 6800 c34, overclocked to 7333 without any issues on the same MB and CPU.
> 
> Something definitely not right... Not sure what exactly.


Bios maybe


----------



## tibcsi0407

xpulse said:


> Have an issue with 7800 c36 GSkill on Aorus Master z790
> XMP not working
> Auto: 7800/7700/7600/7500/7400 booting to OS, none of the tests can't be bypassed.
> Errors are all over the place.
> 
> Before owning the 6800 c34, overclocked to 7333 without any issues on the same MB and CPU.
> 
> Something definitely not right... Not sure what exactly.


Show us your Hwinfo.


----------



## tibcsi0407

I played a lot with my 7800 setting, but I get one single error in the last cycle. USMUS error 10. Acc to the table it is due to overheating, but it can't be, since I am on water (see Hwinfo pic).
What should I do to get a rid of this error? I am out of ideas right now..


----------



## 超级时钟PC

Galax在CES上推出了三款新套件。 有限量的8200 CL38 1.45V和8400 CL38 1.5V套件。


----------



## OC2000

tibcsi0407 said:


> I played a lot with my 7800 setting, but I get one single error in the last cycle. USMUS error 10. Acc to the table it is due to overheating, but it can't be, since I am on water (see Hwinfo pic).
> What should I do to get a rid of this error? I am out of ideas right now..
> View attachment 2590649
> View attachment 2590648


Not an answer to your problem unfortunately, Asus EC should be turned off in HWINFO settings.


----------



## tibcsi0407

OC2000 said:


> Not an answer to your problem unfortunately, Asus EC should be turned off in HWINFO settings.


I just disable before I run benchmarks.
Found a strange behaviour, if I set my twr to auto I get random reboots during TM5. If I lower it it's more stable. Strange. Is it related to any timings than Tcwl and twprden, Twpre?
I can't see any mismatch in timings, in that case Tm5 would error instantly.


----------



## skullbringer

Groove2013 said:


> 3090 Ti OC and 1440p currently, but will get a 4K monitor.
> playing mostly CPU limited games.
> So no benefit from 7800-8000 MHz vs. 4300 MHz CL15 then? or only marginal, at best?


depends on CPU limited in which way. if the game favors latency over bandwidth, your ddr4 setup might actually be faster than ddr5

but at 1440p let alone 4k a 3090 ti will still be the bottleneck in most use cases. so I would say you can probably save yourself the headache of ddr5



rulik006 said:


> since skullbringer can't buy them because of retailer import delay, plus no one here didnt want to buy new Crucial rev.G
> I contacted with a guy from TechPowerUp and review of Crucial 5600 will be there


should get my kit tomorrow, holidays just got in the way of shipping. review will take its time of course, but I will post here once I have any OC results.

looking forward to what the colleagues from TPU will write about new die, different perspectives is always nice.


----------



## acoustic

New Micron revision? Hmm.. let us know how it goes @skullbringer


----------



## iambic

*DDR5-8000 36-46-46-36-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.50v | TX VDDQ 1.40V | SA 1.20v | MC 1.35v*


----------



## bhav

tibcsi0407 said:


> Looks nice for air cooling. You can even put a water block on the top I believe, since it's flat.


Wish I could tell what dies they were, my DDR3 modules are similar, minimal silver sinks but green PCB.

Those teamgroups look perfect, hoping they will still be around / updated to higher spec when I get my next mobo.


----------



## Groove2013

skullbringer said:


> depends on CPU limited in which way. if the game favors latency over bandwidth, your ddr4 setup might actually be faster than ddr5
> 
> but at 1440p let alone 4k a 3090 ti will still be the bottleneck in most use cases. so I would say you can probably save yourself the headache of ddr5


It's CPU limited in the way that the game is poorly optimized, so it's always like 99% usage on one core and very little usage on the rest of the cores and it's DX11 and not as graphics intensive as a lot of other games.

was hoping to have like 10-15 FPS more with max DDR5 OC vs. my DDR4 4300 CL15.
not realistic?


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> It's CPU limited in the way that the game is poorly optimized, so it's always like 99% usage on one core and very little usage on the rest of the cores and it's DX11 and not as graphics intensive as a lot of other games.
> 
> was hoping to have like 10-15 FPS more with max DDR5 OC vs. my DDR4 4300 CL15.
> not realistic?


What game?


----------



## Groove2013

Nizzen said:


> What game?


ArmA 3


----------



## 673714

I couldn’t resist the urge to make some improvements, it started with buying these thermal pads.

I also decided to try a few of the cheaper heat spreaders they have listed on Amazon with no success. Most are thinner than what come on G.Skill from the factory, so I returned them. Figured out I needed to order some that cost a bit more for good results. These are on the way now, but in the meantime I put the factory heat spreaders back on using the thermal pads I just got, just to see how good they really are. It’s way better already, but to be fair that might just be because I put pads where G.Skill didn’t.

During all this a friend decided to build a 12900k system and I offered to sell him my 280mm aio so I’m upgrading to 360mm as soon as it arrives. I can’t wait, I feel like stabilizing 7000MHz or higher will be easy once I’m done


----------



## sulalin

amethy said:


> 還有，用Z790APEX比Z690的UX，有沒有更好的感覺？為什麼不和690APEX比？是因為不想做嗎？
> [/引用]


690 unify-X可以來我690 apex PK adie Aircooling四通嗎？

我覺得我的Z690 apex可以代表本論壇的人挑戰你的Z690 UNIFY X挑戰頻率ddr5 QUAD通道可以冷驅動嗎？


Spoiler: Z690 apex PK z690 unify-X quad channel


----------



## sulalin

asdkj1740 said:


> 也許你應該要求 toppc 為 unify x 發布一個新的 beta bios，a81u4 已經很舊了。
> [/引用]


He is busy developing more DDR5 with OLOY to accumulate wealth from the Chinese and get more big health care funds!


----------



## skullbringer

Groove2013 said:


> ArmA 3


oh that's an extremely cpu limited title... 

don't know how Arma 3 reacts and there also seems to be close to zero testing for this game with ddr4 vs ddr5. I would guess it either really favors ddr4 or it really favors ddr5


----------



## amethy

[引用=“iambic， 帖子： 29101577， 成员： 431589”]
*DDR5-8000 36-46-46-36-2T
VDD/VDDQ 1.50V |德克萨斯州 VDDQ1.40V |SA 1.20V |MC 1.35V*

View attachment 2590686


View attachment 2590687

[/引用]


sulalin said:


> 690 unify-X可以來我690 apex PK adie Aircooling四通嗎？
> 
> 我覺得我的Z690 apex可以代表本論壇的人挑戰你的Z690 UNIFY X挑戰頻率ddr5 QUAD通道可以冷驅動嗎？
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Z690 apex PK z690 unify-X quad channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2590726
> 
> View attachment 2590725
> 
> View attachment 2590724
> 
> View attachment 2590723
> 
> View attachment 2590722


这不是菠萝哥么，怎么玩了这么久关通道还是这么菜啊？是不想用b用上吗？笑死我了，还没舔到790apex么？


----------



## Groove2013

skullbringer said:


> oh that's an extremely cpu limited title...
> 
> don't know how Arma 3 reacts and there also seems to be close to zero testing for this game with ddr4 vs ddr5. I would guess it either really favors ddr4 or it really favors ddr5


by OCing my DDR4 to 4300 CL15 I got like 33% improvement in min and avg FPS.
don't know if going DDR5 will alliw me to further improve my FPS.
it's a sub 60 FPS game very often.
so 10-15 FPS more is huge improvement.


----------



## xpulse

tibcsi0407 said:


> Show us your Hwinfo.


----------



## opt33

LilOliVert said:


> I couldn’t resist the urge to make some improvements, it started with buying these thermal pads.
> 
> I also decided to try a few of the cheaper heat spreaders they have listed on Amazon with no success. Most are thinner than what come on G.Skill from the factory, so I returned them. Figured out I needed to order some that cost a bit more for good results. These are on the way now, but in the meantime I put the factory heat spreaders back on using the thermal pads I just got, just to see how good they really are. It’s way better already, but to be fair that might just be because I put pads where G.Skill didn’t.
> 
> During all this a friend decided to build a 12900k system and I offered to sell him my 280mm aio so I’m upgrading to 360mm as soon as it arrives. I can’t wait, I feel like stabilizing 7000MHz or higher will be easy once I’m done


I had done same early on with same results (using drill and scews), much better temps just changing low conductive thermal adhesive for higher thermal conductance pads. Thermal adhesive tape is only 0.6 to 1.6 w/mk, or like one thermal engineer article stated, you can have good adhesion or good thermal conductance but not both, ie adhesives typically have poor thermals. Thermal pads are several times higher heat conductance and fill in micro air gaps better (although thicker bondline) but not used by manufactures yet as would require screws. It is much easier to overclock once you get rid of the heat issue from increasing voltage. I couldnt do 7800, or even 7600 tight without using higher thermal conductance pads/bitspower heatsinks.


----------



## 超级时钟PC

Galax HOF adie 8200 seems 3700cny, 8400 xmp seems 4100cny. So pricy for memory!


----------



## affxct

Someone (you know who you are) advised that Y (N, H, V) is not that heavy and safe to use for IMC stability.

Me now: 220A!? Like hello. Since when is 220A not heavy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is even heavier than I remember it being back with Alder Lake.


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> by OCing my DDR4 to 4300 CL15 I got like 33% improvement in min and avg FPS.
> don't know if going DDR5 will alliw me to further improve my FPS.
> it's a sub 60 FPS game very often.
> so 10-15 FPS more is huge improvement.


BF 2042 minimumfps went up 35% from 4800xmp to 7200c32. Haven't tested from 4800xmp to 8400c34 yet, but it ain't worse


----------



## skullbringer

optimized hynix a die oem setup further, I think this is as far as I can push this hardware combination, should be good benchmark for other A die kits.

by loosening tRRD_dg, tRDRD_dg and tWRWR_dg to 8 I got a noticeable benefit in latency and gb3 score. Before I was running 4, 7, 7 respectively which triggered some kind of auto-correct by the IMC and actually cost performance! (thx zbv)

need to do further testing on this, because M die behaves differently to this and actually performs better at tighter tRRD_dg than JEDEC spec minimum, but A die seemingly does not. 🤔
tRTP also does not seem to care below JEDEC with A die, tho it crashes below 10 anyways, where on M die you can also run much tighter. maybe M die was some weird DDR4.5 hybrid IC that could understand shorter burst length?

more things I noticed, going to 19 on tRDWR's also costs performance, about 100 pts in gb3 mem, compard to 20.
tRCDWR 8 looses me about 300 pts in gb3 mem, compared to 10. 

tCWL, tWR (tWRPRE, tWRPDEN) and tWTR's (tWRRD's) is where I could gain most performance, just tightening them as much as could pass all stress tests.
[email protected] will throw single errors at the end of a cycle if tCWL is just 1-2 ticks too tight.

MC Voltage (VDD2, IMC VDD) sweet spots at 1.3625 V for my particular CPU. SA 1.3 V and IVR TX VDDQ (CPU VDDQ) 1.55 V are minimized

PLL's, RTT's, RTL's all auto

oh and this is 1.6 V VDD/VDDQ, spd smbus bugged out... 120 mm fan on modules, max spd hub temp is 48 °C










and this retrains / cold boots stable every time.


----------



## 673714

opt33 said:


> I had done same early on with same results (using drill and scews), much better temps just changing low conductive thermal adhesive for higher thermal conductance pads. Thermal adhesive tape is only 0.6 to 1.6 w/mk, or like one thermal engineer article stated, you can have good adhesion or good thermal conductance but not both, ie adhesives typically have poor thermals. Thermal pads are several times higher heat conductance and fill in micro air gaps better (although thicker bondline) but not used by manufactures yet as would require screws. It is much easier to overclock once you get rid of the heat issue from increasing voltage. I couldnt do 7800, or even 7600 tight without using higher thermal conductance pads/bitspower heatsinks.


Oh, you drilled the factory heat spreaders and put screws in?
I just used some big paper clips 
Works well enough until I get the dragon scales to put on 'em lol


----------



## Dinnzy

wow switched to z690 dark, yolod 8200 (12900ks, will try with my 13900k) first try. this is a the gskill 7800 kit. where do you go tightening this up for error prevention?still a simp with ddr5 tweaking but im learning fast. any help would be appreciated.


----------



## sulalin

amethy said:


> [引用=“iambic，帖子：29101577，成員：431589”]
> *DDR5-8000 36-46-46-36-2T
> VDD/VDDQ 1.50V  |德克薩斯州 VDDQ 1.40V |SA 1.20V |MC 1.35V*
> 
> [附件=完整]2590686[/附件]
> 
> [附件=完整]2590687[/附件]
> [/引用]
> 
> 這不是菠蘿哥麼，怎麼玩了這麼久關通還是這菜啊？是不想用b用上嗎？笑死我了，還沒舔到790apex呢？
> [/引用]


I can be a father by opening 8800/9000 quad channel with z690 apex to cool the air! Haven't you heard my famous golden saying? Mortals use Z790 apex to open double access! God uses Z690 apex to open double access! Do you think I'm a mortal like you?
我用z690 apex 就開8800/9000 quad channel 空氣冷卻 就能當爹 ！你沒聽過我的金句名言嗎？ 凡人用Z790 apex 開雙通 ！神人用Z690 apex 開雙通 ！你以為我跟你一樣凡人嗎？


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> wow switched to z690 dark, yolod 8200 (12900ks, will try with my 13900k) first try. this is a the gskill 8200 kit. where do you go tightening this up for error prevention?still a simp with ddr5 tweaking but im learning fast. any help would be appreciated.
> View attachment 2590809


Just look at things we post here every day.
We used years to learn ddr4 and now ddr5. We aren't finished 
Allways show full hwinfo and memtweakit. Then it's possible to help.

8200 ES kits?


----------



## amethy

sulalin said:


> I can be a father by opening 8800/9000 quad channel with z690 apex to cool the air! Haven't you heard my famous golden saying? Mortals use Z790 apex to open double access! God uses Z690 apex to open double access! Do you think I'm a mortal like you?
> 我用z690 apex 就開8800/9000 quad channel 空氣冷卻 就能當爹 ！你沒聽過我的金句名言嗎？ 凡人用Z790 apex 開雙通 ！神人用Z690 apex 開雙通 ！你以為我跟你一樣凡人嗎？


你这么强hwbot怎么使劲翻也找不到你名字呢？


----------



## rs199208

Dinnzy said:


> wow switched to z690 dark, yolod 8200 (12900ks, will try with my 13900k) first try. this is a the gskill 7800 kit. where do you go tightening this up for error prevention?still a simp with ddr5 tweaking but im learning fast. any help would be appreciated.
> View attachment 2590809


interesting.


----------



## asdkj1740

sulalin said:


> I can be a father by opening 8800/9000 quad channel with z690 apex to cool the air! Haven't you heard my famous golden saying? Mortals use Z790 apex to open double access! God uses Z690 apex to open double access! Do you think I'm a mortal like you?
> 我用z690 apex 就開8800/9000 quad channel 空氣冷卻 就能當爹 ！你沒聽過我的金句名言嗎？ 凡人用Z790 apex 開雙通 ！神人用Z690 apex 開雙通 ！你以為我跟你一樣凡人嗎？


please, both of you, leave us in peace here.


----------



## Dinnzy

Nizzen said:


> Just look at things we post here every day.
> We used years to learn ddr4 and now ddr5. We aren't finished
> Allways show full hwinfo and memtweakit. Then it's possible to help.
> 
> 8200 ES kits?


Sorry that was a typo, 7800. I was very excited ! I’ve followed this thread all year long haha. Beyond adjusting the voltages I feel like I need to understand better what each move is relative to what ever timing you changed. I realize plug and play someone’s else’s successful settings is not the move. My real question is what timings should you be really looking at if your getting errors within 10 minutes ? Ive been using occt. Which stress test do you use for error debugging ?


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> Sorry that was a typo, 7800. I was very excited ! I’ve followed this thread all year long haha. Beyond adjusting the voltages I feel like I need to understand better what each move is relative to what ever timing you changed. I realize plug and play someone’s else’s successful settings is not the move. My real question is what timings should you be really looking at if your getting errors within 10 minutes ? Ive been using occt. Which stress test do you use for error debugging ?


Use Karhu ramtest for fast errorchecking and playing Battlefield 2042. This game hates unstable Ram and cpu OC 

Look at posts from people here, and you will find a pattern and usual used timings.

Typical timings:
Trfc=480
Tfaw=16
tRefi= 100k or more (need temps under control) sub 50c is prefered
Etc.....

Now you have many days of testing and failing. This is where the real fun begins. 
Ram OC isn't for people with no time to spare 🤣


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Use Karhu ramtest for fast errorchecking and playing Battlefield 2042. This game hates unstable Ram and cpu OC
> 
> Look at posts from people here, and you will find a pattern and usual used timings.
> 
> Typical timings:
> Trfc=480
> Tfaw=16
> tRefi= 100k or more (need temps under control) sub 50c is prefered
> Etc.....
> 
> Now you have many days of testing and failing. This is where the real fun begins.
> Ram OC isn't for people with no time to spare 🤣


my os just crashed. not fun.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> my os just crashed. not fun.


Normal ddr4/ddr5 oc fun. That's why backup software exist. A few minutes, and you are good to go 
Acronis is a nice option.

Backup on another SSD, and backup is up on no time.


----------



## Dinnzy

Dinnzy said:


> Sorry that was a typo, 7800. I was very excited ! I’ve followed this thread all year long haha. Beyond adjusting the voltages I feel like I need to understand better what each move is relative to what ever timing you changed. I realize plug and play someone’s else’s successful settings is not the move. My real question is what timings should you be really looking at if your getting errors within 10 minutes ? Ive been using occt. Which stress test do you use for error debugging ?





asdkj1740 said:


> my os just crashed. not fun.


I just broke my leg ;p ready to learn haha Thankyou for the info


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> Normal ddr4/ddr5 oc fun. That's why backup software exist. A few minutes, and you are good to go
> Acronis is a nice option.
> 
> Backup on another SSD, and backup is up on no time.


any backup guide/tips??
i just spent a full day downloading all the games and windows updates...


----------



## Betroz

asdkj1740 said:


> any backup guide/tips??


Either download the ISO from (.......) or buy the newest Acronis software. In the app you can make an ISO file that you can put on a USB stick and boot from that. The rest is easy.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> any backup guide/tips??
> i just spent a full day downloading all the games and windows updates...


Acronis is a good tip 

Use clone function when having everything inststalled.

"Acronis true image"


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Use clone function when having everything inststalled.


I prefer the Acronis boot media option. So that the software isn't running in the background in Windows.


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> I prefer the Acronis boot media option. So that the software isn't running in the background in Windows.


Yes, that's the one to use


----------



## elbramso

asdkj1740 said:


> any backup guide/tips??
> i just spent a full day downloading all the games and windows updates...


Get a cheap SATA-Drive, install a fresh Windows there and do ur MEM OC testing on this drive.
Install the OS on the SATA-Drive while ur main partition isn't installed in ur mainboard to avoid crossover MBR entries.

Plus what Nizzen and Betroz said


----------



## tibcsi0407

Nizzen said:


> Acronis is a good tip
> 
> Use clone function when having everything inststalled.
> 
> "Acronis true image"


Is there any way to make USB bootable Windows? That would be the easiest


----------



## 673714

LilOliVert said:


> Oh, you drilled the factory heat spreaders and put screws in?
> I just used some big paper clips
> Works well enough until I get the dragon scales to put on 'em lol


They’re technically binder clips, and I figured it couldn’t hurt to share some pics in case anyone would like to do the same. I suggest this only as a temporary fix, since the factory heat spreaders are just too thin.

Obviously if you haven’t already, remove the factory heat spreaders using whatever method you prefer. I used a hairdryer to heat them up and gently pull them off. Then clean everything up. Adhesive remover works good.

Use the corner of a countertop to stretch out the black part a bit so they’re not squeezing too hard. Take it slow and easy checking progress often, until the tips no longer touch when released.

You may notice the G.Skill branding is gone, and I suggest you do the same. It can’t hurt temperatures to get that double-sided tape and extra metal plate out of the way.
Make your DDR5 sandwich (1.5mm backside, 0.5mm on the memory chips and 1.5mm on the PMIC/SPD) and clip it right in the middle lol








Then just remove the silver piece from both sides of the clips to fit them on the motherboard.


----------



## Nizzen

LilOliVert said:


> They’re technically binder clips, and I figured it couldn’t hurt to share some pics in case anyone would like to do the same. I suggest this only as a temporary fix, since the factory heat spreaders are just too thin.
> 
> Obviously if you haven’t already, remove the factory heat spreaders using whatever method you prefer. I used a hairdryer to heat them up and gently pull them off. Then clean everything up. Adhesive remover works good.
> 
> Use the corner of a countertop to stretch out the black part a bit so they’re not squeezing too hard. Take it slow and easy checking progress often, until the tips no longer touch when released.
> 
> You may notice the G.Skill branding is gone, and I suggest you do the same. It can’t hurt temperatures to get that double-sided tape and extra metal plate out of the way.
> Make your DDR5 sandwich (1.5mm backside, 0.5mm on the memory chips and 1.5mm on the PMIC/SPD) and clip it right in the middle lol
> View attachment 2590871
> 
> Then just remove the silver piece from both sides of the clips to fit them on the motherboard.
> View attachment 2590872


Nice mod 
I use hairdryer myself on dimms. Maybe the most easy delid method. This makes it easy to set them back to 100% orginal state too


----------



## Razor333

13900K+Z790 Aorus Master+7200c32G.Skill A-die kit


----------



## QXE

asdkj1740 said:


> please, both of you, leave us in peace here.


Hasn’t Sulalin been banned multiple times? I remember him posting about being banned before over the summer 🥴


----------



## Razor333

7600c34 is possible with z790 master, i can even boot @ 7800 but not luck to stabilize it, btw i had major issues with contact frame from thermalright regarding memory overclock and stability, i don't recommend using it with this board and it doesn't make any difference with temperatures compare to stock lotes ILM.


----------



## pipes

tibcsi0407 said:


> Nope, VDD2 is an external voltage on your board between the dimms and the CPU. TX is internal IMC voltage in your CPU, just like SA. They are actually on the same rail AFAIK.
> 
> _Here are the suggestions from BZ:
> RAM / IMC voltages
> VCCSA: upto 1.45V is safe
> VCCIN: upto 2V is safe
> CPU VDDQ: upto 1.45V is safe
> CPU VDD2: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VDD: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VDDQ: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VPP: upto 2V is safe
> 
> Bit more detailed here: LINK_
> [/CITAZIONE]
> 
> excuse me if I reply to this answer after a long time but I was looking for info on the voltages of the integrated memory controller (vdd2), do you think this is not the voltage that refers to the IMC? because apparently Intel in its datasheet specifies more as you can see from the images


----------



## Nizzen

tibcsi0407 said:


> Nope, VDD2 is an external voltage on your board between the dimms and the CPU. TX is internal IMC voltage in your CPU, just like SA. They are actually on the same rail AFAIK.
> 
> _Here are the suggestions from BZ:
> RAM / IMC voltages
> VCCSA: upto 1.45V is safe
> VCCIN: upto 2V is safe
> CPU VDDQ: upto 1.45V is safe
> CPU VDD2: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VDD: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VDDQ: upto 1.6V is safe
> RAM VPP: upto 2V is safe
> 
> Bit more detailed here: LINK_


_suggestions from Nizzen: Uo to 1.7v is safe for ram vdd/vddq _


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> _suggestions from Nizzen: Uo to 1.7v is safe for ram vdd/vddq _


You could probs daily 1.8 VDD as long as it’s cooled. It’s not going through the PHYs like how VDIMM was on DDR4.


----------



## J_Lab4645

What is up with the A-die _'latency_' BRICK wall? I can run up to 8600mhz no problem, but I've lowered freq down to as low as 6800mhz trying to tighten the crap out of everything in order to lower latency to Sub 50 ns in Aida64. I'm trying to sacrifice bandwidth for a decrease in latency. There is just no way. Adjusting V or timings does nothing. It's like 'HEY' I'm A-die and no matter what you do, as long as when I'm memory training your latency is >51ns, "I'm good". A-die is the 'full on' bandwidth KING but a latency princess. Does anyone here have sub 50ns A-die stable? ...and if you do....what the heck are your voltages? Because after a ton of testing, higher does not = better. Finicky ram ...here's a couple Aida benchmarks:

VDD/VDDQ=1.5
IMC=1.42
IVR VCCSA= 1.312(Auto)
IVR TX VDDQ=1.4(Auto)
ApexZ790

I cannot get under 50ns latency no matter what.


----------



## Dinnzy

here is the a die g skill 6400 kit booting up 8000 first try on the z690 dark, this 12900KS has a nice IMC. could not do this on my unify x though


----------



## Nizzen

J_Lab4645 said:


> What is up with the A-die _'latency_' BRICK wall? I can run up to 8600mhz no problem, but I've lowered freq down to as low as 6800mhz trying to tighten the crap out of everything in order to lower latency to Sub 50 ns in Aida64. I'm trying to sacrifice bandwidth for a decrease in latency. There is just no way. Adjusting V or timings does nothing. It's like 'HEY' I'm A-die and no matter what you do, as long as when I'm memory training your latency is >51ns, "I'm good". A-die is the 'full on' bandwidth KING but a latency princess. Does anyone here have sub 50ns A-die stable? ...and if you do....what the heck are your voltages? Because after a ton of testing, higher does not = better. Finicky ram ...here's a couple Aida benchmarks:
> 
> VDD/VDDQ=1.5
> IMC=1.42
> IVR VCCSA= 1.312(Auto)
> IVR TX VDDQ=1.4(Auto)
> ApexZ790
> 
> I cannot get under 50ns latency no matter what.


My 8400c34 is 49.5 on stock cpu and ring. Using Win 11 without bloatware. Win 11 "ghost spectre"


----------



## J_Lab4645

Nizzen said:


> My 8400c34 is 49.5 on stock cpu and ring. Using Win 11 without bloatware. Win 11 "ghost spectre"


Damn bro, it really makes that much difference? I have no CPU OC but am running just 'stock' Win 11.
thanks for the info.


----------



## kunit13

I was wondering the same thing. I'm working my way from 7200>7600 and now 7800. Basically my latency has only improved from 7200 53.5ns 7800 52.7ns. I new to ddr5 and timings so defiantly not optimized like some folks in here. But I've seen lots of examples and really no SUB 50ns latency with the 8000+ speeds. 

To be honest in the game that I play I'm noticing zero fps difference in memory speed scaling, so I haven't focused on that as much (with 5950x and bdie i noticed improvement). 





J_Lab4645 said:


> What is up with the A-die _'latency_' BRICK wall? I can run up to 8600mhz no problem, but I've lowered freq down to as low as 6800mhz trying to tighten the crap out of everything in order to lower latency to Sub 50 ns in Aida64. I'm trying to sacrifice bandwidth for a decrease in latency. There is just no way. Adjusting V or timings does nothing. It's like 'HEY' I'm A-die and no matter what you do, as long as when I'm memory training your latency is >51ns, "I'm good". A-die is the 'full on' bandwidth KING but a latency princess. Does anyone here have sub 50ns A-die stable? ...and if you do....what the heck are your voltages? Because after a ton of testing, higher does not = better. Finicky ram ...here's a couple Aida benchmarks:
> 
> VDD/VDDQ=1.5
> IMC=1.42
> IVR VCCSA= 1.312(Auto)
> IVR TX VDDQ=1.4(Auto)
> ApexZ790
> 
> I cannot get under 50ns latency no matter what.


----------



## J_Lab4645

Nizzen said:


> My 8400c34 is 49.5 on stock cpu and ring. Using Win 11 without bloatware. Win 11 "ghost spectre"





kunit13 said:


> I was wondering the same thing. I'm working my way from 7200>7600 and now 7800. Basically my latency has only improved from 7200 53.5ns 7800 52.7ns. I new to ddr5 and timings so defiantly not optimized like some folks in here. But I've seen lots of examples and really no SUB 50ns latency with the 8000+ speeds.
> 
> To be honest in the game that I play I'm noticing zero fps difference in memory speed scaling, so I haven't focused on that as much (with 5950x and bdie i noticed improvement).


After messing around with A-die for quite a while, I feel like this is the 'new' RAID 0. Bandwidth galore but for what really matters (latency) its not performing.
...benchmarks do look pretty nice though!


----------



## Nizzen

J_Lab4645 said:


> Damn bro, it really makes that much difference? I have no CPU OC but am running just 'stock' Win 11.


My 8400c34 is pretty tight tweaked too, but stripped windows is nice for performance in games and benchmarks 
Both latency and bandwidt matters. Some matters more in different scenarioes.


----------



## kunit13

Hope not my sticks where $429.....lol

After watching as much BZoid and reading this entire thread (multiple times), seems like maybe getting some mdie for the latency might of been the ticket.


----------



## kunit13

Nizzen said:


> My 8400c34 is pretty tight tweaked too, but stripped windows is nice for performance in games and benchmarks
> Both latency and bandwidt matters. Some matters more in different scenarioes.


I was thinking about trying specter. Im still on win 10 21h1. seems to provide better FPS for wz2...


----------



## Nizzen

kunit13 said:


> I was thinking about trying specter. Im still on win 10 21h1. seems to provide better FPS for wz2...


Win 10 and 13900k 😅
You will have enough fps in any game with win 11 spectre


----------



## ViTosS

kunit13 said:


> I was thinking about trying specter. Im still on win 10 21h1. seems to provide better FPS for wz2...


Not true, Warzone 2.0 is the same FPS, tested both back and forth.


----------



## ViTosS

Windows 11 22H2 you have to use Ghost Spectre if you want to disable Windows Defender and a lot of bloatware, Defender in Windows 11 22H2 is no longer possible to disable by any form, only using Ghost Spectre, while in 10 you still can.


----------



## sulalin

amethy said:


> 你这么强hwbot怎么使劲翻也找不到你名字呢？











This kind of children's grades don't have to be maintained all the time! It's good if you have got it! Only children need rankings!


----------



## ViTosS

Let me guess, you receive everything from Asus for free and you just have to OC


----------



## whitearmor

ViTosS said:


> Let me guess, you receive everything from Asus for free and you just have to OC


He’s actually talked on this a while ago, and turns out he bought and tested a ton of MBs by himself to reach this results, so props for dedication worth true enthusiast^^


----------



## centvalny

@ 8000 and 8800


----------



## ViTosS

whitearmor said:


> He’s actually talked on this a while ago, and turns out he bought and tested a ton of MBs by himself to reach this results, so props for dedication worth true enthusiast^^


Honestly I don't think that, probably he is someone part of a OC team by Asus, like many from here that most people don't even know , that receives CPU, RAM and MOBO every generation for free and they have to OC, I mean, OC is not hard, knowledge of CPU and RAM OC is not hard, it's mostly a pay to win game or a gamble if you are luck to have the best bin possible, most people who talked defending Asus when the Apex Z690 scandal happened in the past here where the ones that were getting free stuff from Asus lol.


----------



## rulik006

ViTosS said:


> like many from here that most people don't even know


but aren't they do coming out with CPU-Z rog theme, wp and binned QS samples?


----------



## ViTosS

rulik006 said:


> but aren't they do coming out with CPU-Z rog theme, wp and binned QS samples?


I could list some from here which are part of the crew, but they are nice to me and helped me in the past and nothing wrong with that, just was trying to express my opinion that I don't find something that you can high your ego for having a good OC, they do have a lot of knowledge, that is a fact, not trying to demerit anyone here, just I don't think OC is hard in general, since most of the info you can learn and find in forums/Google, etc. People with the best OC aren't the most inteligent people or the most advanced in knowledge, they just have the best bin possible in this lottery game, like I said, pay to win game or you happen to receive a lot of good bins from a big company.

And at the end of the day, props to them for being part of an OC team, sponsored, etc.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

This is as far as I can go on this beast I think unless. My mount is messed up. This chip seems fine IMO the memory feels strong as well bin wise.

It's not 9000MHz but hey whatever.




























Of course, now I see I still need to lock the rtl's even lol. Either way this is stable tm5 extreme overnight.


----------



## QXE

sulalin said:


> View attachment 2590938
> 
> This kind of children's grades don't have to be maintained all the time! It's good if you have got it! Only children need rankings!
> View attachment 2590939


----------



## xpulse

Razor333 said:


> 7600c34 is possible with z790 master, i can even boot @ 7800 but not luck to stabilize it, btw i had major issues with contact frame from thermalright regarding memory overclock and stability, i don't recommend using it with this board and it doesn't make any difference with temperatures compare to stock lotes ILM.
> 
> View attachment 2590913


Will try to remove CPU frame and will check if I can increase my RAM speed from 7333 to 7600; my DIMMs are 7800 C36


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> _suggestions from Nizzen: Uo to 1.7v is safe for ram vdd/vddq _


buildzoid is mad about this.


----------



## adolf512

I ran into this uncommon stability issue while trying to improve timings. Ill try stressapptest too see if that find the issue faster

Never managed to get 100 GiB/s write (got very close though)









For some reason y-crunches now closes completely on error or if the time-limit runs out. I might try reinstalling it.


----------



## Betroz

ViTosS said:


> Windows 11 22H2 you have to use Ghost Spectre if you want to disable Windows Defender and a lot of bloatware, Defender in Windows 11 22H2 is no longer possible to disable by any form, only using Ghost Spectre, while in 10 you still can.


Another option is to use NTLite and make your own ISO. You can remove Windows Defender and lots of other stuff with this program. Ghost Spectre could have a keylogger in it for all we know...


----------



## satinghostrider

adolf512 said:


> I ran into this uncommon stability issue while trying to improve timings. Ill try stressapptest too see if that find the issue faster
> 
> Never managed to get 100 GiB/s write (got very close though)
> View attachment 2590992
> 
> 
> For some reason y-crunches now closes completely on error or if the time-limit runs out. I might try reinstalling it.


Are you using a contact frame?


----------



## adolf512

satinghostrider said:


> Are you using a contact frame?


Nope.


----------



## satinghostrider

adolf512 said:


> Nope.


Could be your CPU IMC isn't strong enough for tighter timings. Or reset your bios and rekey in all your memory settings and try again. Sometimes this happens and you need to do a full power cycle.


----------



## adolf512

satinghostrider said:


> Could be your CPU IMC isn't strong enough for tighter timings. Or reset your bios and rekey in all your memory settings and try again. Sometimes this happens and you need to do a full power cycle.


I might wait for the next bios update (msi z790-p wifi)

The timings i got stable wouldn't even boot earlier, might be worth testing again with the older voltages too see if it was the bios update (A32 to A30).


----------



## asdkj1740

share a result on gigabyte z790 aorus tachyon.
gigabyte's high bandwidth mode and low latency mode are so lame.
















技嘉極限超頻底板Z790 AORUS TACHYON開箱 ADIE MDIE通殺 - 悠二硬件Yujihw


引言 包裝&配件 底板外觀 插頭接連 拆散 PCB用料 總結 引言 現時市




yujihw.com


----------



## Razor333

asdkj1740 said:


> share a result on gigabyte z790 aorus tachyon.
> gigabyte's high bandwidth mode and low latency mode are so lame.
> View attachment 2591032
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 技嘉極限超頻底板Z790 AORUS TACHYON開箱 ADIE MDIE通殺 - 悠二硬件Yujihw
> 
> 
> 引言 包裝&配件 底板外觀 插頭接連 拆散 PCB用料 總結 引言 現時市
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yujihw.com


I think those 2 modes, working only for xmp profiles and manipulate some settings, like auto tuning. Pretty much useless for custom tuners.


----------



## skullbringer

So about Micron 16 Gbit RevG:
It behaves like RevA with an 800 Mbps offset, that's all. Max reliable frequency is DDR5-6000. Managed to get 6600 stable once, but training is very inconsistent and havent found training options to fix that.

VDD seems to rollover past 1.3 V, VDDQ can go up to 1.435 fme. At 6600 1.3/1.435 tRCD min seems to be 45, tWRWR_sg needs to be 26 at that. Haven't tested other timings in depth, but performance seems to be beyond repair already.

So even for Zen 4 I would still prefer Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die. 

RevG seems to be just a shelf filler for Crucial / Micron so they don't become irrelevant for 2nd gen DDR5 5600 JEDEC ICs. Maybe the upcoming 24 Gbit stuff will actually be good again.


----------



## rulik006

skullbringer said:


> So about Micron 16 Gbit RevG:
> It behaves like RevA with an 800 Mbps offset, that's all. Max reliable frequency is DDR5-6000. Managed to get 6600 stable once, *but training is very inconsistent and havent found training options to fix* that.
> 
> VDD seems to rollover past 1.3 V, VDDQ can go up to 1.435 fme. At 6600 1.3/1.435 tRCD min seems to be 45, tWRWR_sg needs to be 26 at that. Haven't tested other timings in depth, but performance seems to be beyond repair already.
> 
> So even for Zen 4 I would still prefer Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die.
> 
> RevG seems to be just a shelf filler for Crucial / Micron so they don't become irrelevent for 2nd gen DDR5 5600 JEDEC ICs. Maybe the upcoming 24 Gbit stuff will actually be good again.


Which board was used?


----------



## bhav

skullbringer said:


> RevG seems to be just a shelf filler for Crucial / Micron so they don't become irrelevant for 2nd gen DDR5 5600 JEDEC ICs. Maybe the upcoming 24 Gbit stuff will actually be good again.


Micron not doing so good right now:









Why Micron Melted Down and Intel, AMD, and Nvidia Followed | The Motley Fool


How bad will things get for semiconductor stocks in Q2?




www.fool.com





They're laying off 10% of their staff.

I did tell them they shouldn't have discontinued Rev B DDR4. They didn't listen. 

'Less demand for PCs' they claim, no, just no demand for their trash die DDR5 ram.


----------



## skullbringer

rulik006 said:


> Which board was used?


Z790 Hero


----------



## Nono31

Groove2013 said:


> by OCing my DDR4 to 4300 CL15 I got like 33% improvement in min and avg FPS.
> don't know if going DDR5 will alliw me to further improve my FPS.
> it's a sub 60 FPS game very often.
> so 10-15 FPS more is huge improvement.


That's make sense, gain in fps by oc frequency cpu are so few right now because imc struggle all system. I have imc 2200mhz right now. I obtained 2350mhz with 10900k: 40% gain avg and min only with oc ram.
Ddr5 imc is always under ddr4. Only amd did right the job with 3000mhz imc.
But imc don't do all, timing is important also.


----------



## xpulse

Razor333 said:


> 7600c34 is possible with z790 master, i can even boot @ 7800 but not luck to stabilize it, btw i had major issues with contact frame from thermalright regarding memory overclock and stability, i don't recommend using it with this board and it doesn't make any difference with temperatures compare to stock lotes ILM.
> 
> View attachment 2590913


I was able to use these settings to go from 7333 to 7400 without errors in tm6/Kathu. anything upper gives me a lot of errors. Also, did lower down TREFI to 65000


----------



## Razor333

xpulse said:


> I was able to use these settings to go from 7333 to 7400 without errors in tm6/Kathu. anything upper gives me a lot of errors. Also, did lower down TREFI to 65000


Maybe you have to use some different vdd2/vddq tx variation or just use the 7200c32-42-42 1T profile.


----------



## Oleksii1977

My result with Gskill 6400 A-Die, overclocked to 8200Mhz


----------



## Dinnzy

Oleksii1977 said:


> My result with Gskill 6400 A-Die, overclocked to 8200Mhz
> View attachment 2591104


Timings ;p? Mine can also do this, I can’t get it stable though


----------



## Oleksii1977

Dinnzy said:


> Timings ;p? Mine can also do this, I can’t get it stable though


----------



## tibcsi0407

I can do stable 7600 with the timings below, but I can't the 7800 even with loose timings. I don't really understand it. I was able to do it about 3 times on 7800 with quite tight timings until the next reboot.. Hope there will be some new bios releases for my Hero which will help in this inconstancy.


----------



## pipes

yesterday I did several stress tests, with occt, tm5 and y-cruncher and everything went smoothly, ram at 8000c36. Today while downloading with Chrome it started to close, this twice, now I tested with occt which detected 4 errors within a few seconds


----------



## RaMsiTo

tibcsi0407 said:


> I can do stable 7600 with the timings below, but I can't the 7800 even with loose timings. I don't really understand it. I was able to do it about 3 times on 7800 with quite tight timings until the next reboot.. Hope there will be some new bios releases for my Hero which will help in this inconstancy.
> 
> View attachment 2591117
> View attachment 2591125


I'm testing two different gskill 7600 cl36 packs, one is stable 7800 xmp tweaked , the other is just 7600xmp tweaked.

8000 in the hero I see it complicated, I don't want to waste time and end up with an apex xD.


----------



## tibcsi0407

RaMsiTo said:


> I'm testing two different gskill 7600 cl36 packs, one is stable 7800 xmp tweaked , the other is just 7600xmp tweaked.
> 
> 8000 in the hero I see it complicated, I don't want to waste time and end up with an apex xD.


Yeah, I feel the same sometimes, but some hundred MHz doesn't worth it for me now.


----------



## J_Lab4645

centvalny said:


> @ 8000 and 8800
> 
> View attachment 2590948
> 
> View attachment 2590950





centvalny said:


> @ 8000 and 8800
> 
> View attachment 2590948
> 
> View attachment 2590950


......Well here's a WILL SMITH slap in the face for some of us- Nicely done! ...and by the way thank you for posting Memtweakit, Aida, and HWinfo. Lots of folks don't post the whole enchilada.


----------



## Cjceeez

pipes said:


> yesterday I did several stress tests, with occt, tm5 and y-cruncher and everything went smoothly, ram at 8000c36. Today while downloading with Chrome it started to close, this twice, now I tested with occt which detected 4 errors within a few seconds


How do you lock in those setting from the day before so that next time you power cycle they don't go astray?

Have you tried using sleep only?

Some other guy said they saved a profile to the sticks themselves. Have you tried that?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

J_Lab4645 said:


> ......Well here's a WILL SMITH slap in the face for some of us- Nicely done! ...and by the way thank you for posting Memtweakit, Aida, and HWinfo. Lots of folks don't post the whole enchilada.


Because they're hiding certain things, they're suppliers of free equipment don't want them to talk about.


----------



## pipes

Cjceeez said:


> How do you lock in those setting from the day before so that next time you power cycle they don't go astray?
> 
> Have you tried using sleep only?
> 
> Some other guy said they saved a profile to the sticks themselves. Have you tried that?


sorry but my limited english doesn't allow me to understand your questions well, I save the profile with Asus user profile. I didn't understand the boy what did he save?


----------



## centvalny

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Because they're hiding certain things, they're suppliers of free equipment don't want them to talk about.


Never hide anything when posting here @ OCN since M5G 
All ROG


----------



## Forsaken1

asdkj1740 said:


> share a result on gigabyte z790 aorus tachyon.
> gigabyte's high bandwidth mode and low latency mode are so lame.
> View attachment 2591032
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 技嘉極限超頻底板Z790 AORUS TACHYON開箱 ADIE MDIE通殺 - 悠二硬件Yujihw
> 
> 
> 引言 包裝&配件 底板外觀 插頭接連 拆散 PCB用料 總結 引言 現時市
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yujihw.com


That’s a solid site.Wish translation worked on all reviews.


----------



## Cjceeez

pipes said:


> sorry but my limited english doesn't allow me to understand your questions well, I save the profile with Asus user profile. I didn't understand the boy what did he save?


Come si bloccano quelle impostazioni del giorno prima in modo che la prossima volta che si spegne il ciclo non si perdano?

Hai provato a usare solo il sonno?

Un altro ragazzo ha detto di aver salvato un profilo sui bastoncini stessi. L'hai provato?


----------



## tibcsi0407

Forsaken1 said:


> That’s a solid site.Wish translation worked on all reviews.


This board should be really good. On Gigabyte it's much better to play with ODT values.


----------



## Nizzen

tibcsi0407 said:


> This board should be really good. On Gigabyte it's much better to play with ODT values.


*should be

Last generations Gigabyte MB's stopped with "should be" 
They never went really good. Not enough love for bios


----------



## tibcsi0407

Nizzen said:


> *should be
> 
> Last generations Gigabyte MB's stopped with "should be"
> They never went really good. Not enough love for bios


Tachyon is an exception. Look at their Hwbot forums.


----------



## elbramso

@Nizzen
I know ur on the Ghost Spectre image - do u know why 3dmark keeps telling me that I dont have a rendering device installed? Latest gpu driver is installed and gpu-z does find my gpu just fine...
Using Ghost Spectre 21H2 because I like TimeSpy^^


----------



## Nizzen

elbramso said:


> @Nizzen
> I know ur on the Ghost Spectre image - do u know why 3dmark keeps telling me that I dont have a rendering device installed? Latest gpu driver is installed and gpu-z does find my gpu just fine...
> Using Ghost Spectre 21H2 because I like TimeSpy^^


Don't know. Maybe some c++ or something is missing?


----------



## elbramso

Nizzen said:


> Don't know. Maybe some c++ or something is missing?


yep maybe redist or dx something - I'll check, thx


----------



## Nizzen

tibcsi0407 said:


> Tachyon is an exception. Look at their Hwbot forums.


It's a reason there are only result's on hwbot. Doesn't mean bios is very good 

But hey, haven't tested Gigabyte z790 tachyon. Maybe it's good, but there isn't many using it.
Don't think I've seen any ddr5 8000+ with tight subs, and on ambient from any users outside a lab.


----------



## elbramso

Nizzen said:


> Don't know. Maybe some c++ or something is missing?


it was the elevated installation after all^^


----------



## affxct

Oleksii1977 said:


> My result with Gskill 6400 A-Die, overclocked to 8200Mhz
> View attachment 2591104


Is this stable?


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> That’s a solid site.Wish translation worked on all reviews.


clearly the low latency mode is not low enough.
btw do you know what is the difference between safe mode (by rst button) and limp mode (limp button)?


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> *should be
> 
> Last generations Gigabyte MB's stopped with "should be"
> They never went really good. Not enough love for bios


gigabyte z790 lineup is way better than gigabyte z690 lineup.
bios are much more mature, z790 PCB design are well tuned/tweaked by hicookie.
the guy finally got some time to spend on non tachyon models, and the works are simply amazing to the general public.
if asus still locks the xmp tweaked mode on certain high end models like hero and apex, then gigabyte new auto ddr5 oc modes for all its whole lineup simply win.


----------



## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> gigabyte z790 lineup is way better than gigabyte z690 lineup.
> bios are much more mature, z790 PCB design are well tuned/tweaked by hicookie.
> the guy finally got some time to spend on non tachyon models, and the works are simply amazing to the general public.
> if asus still locks the xmp tweaked mode on certain high end models like hero and apex, then gigabyte new auto ddr5 oc modes for all its whole lineup simply win.


If, may, should, maybe in the future 

Do you see what I'm trying to say? If it ain't very good now, then it's soon old and outdated.


----------



## Oleksii1977

affxct said:


> Is this stable?


yes


----------



## tibcsi0407

Nizzen said:


> It's a reason there are only result's on hwbot. Doesn't mean bios is very good
> 
> But hey, haven't tested Gigabyte z790 tachyon. Maybe it's good, but there isn't many using it.
> Don't think I've seen any ddr5 8000+ with tight subs, and on ambient from any users outside a lab.


I believe that is already reached in Z690 Tachyon. Maybe @Forsaken1 could tell us more about it.
It's a 10 layers 2 dimm board. Can't be weak in terms of memory oc.


----------



## satinghostrider

New 0078 Bios for Z790 Apex

BIOS Ver. 0078

improve overclock compatible










ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-APEX-ASUS-0078.CAP


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com










文件分享







share.weiyun.com


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> New 0078 Bios for Z790 Apex
> 
> BIOS Ver. 0078
> 
> improve overclock compatible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z790-APEX-ASUS-0078.CAP
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 文件分享
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com


Thanx to @bianbao.dev 🤩


----------



## pipes

yesterday I downloaded version 0810 and now I see 0078, is it the next one?


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> If, may, should, maybe in the future
> 
> Do you see what I'm trying to say? If it ain't very good now, then it's soon old and outdated.


asus xmp tweaked profile is a great feature.


Nizzen said:


> Thanx to @bianbao.dev 🤩


of course this level of bios support from asus is purely unbeatable.
z790 apex is amazing, the bios support is superb.


----------



## elbramso

pipes said:


> yesterday I downloaded version 0810 and now I see 0078, is it the next one?


0810 is an "official" beta BIOS
0078 is a TestBIOS from a dev (who is a genius)


----------



## Betroz

Asus (etc...) must be happy for all us beta testers out there. No need to ship a finnised product anymore


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> Asus (etc...) must be happy for all us beta testers out there. No need to ship a finnised product anymore


And we love betatesting 🥰🤟


----------



## pipes

elbramso said:


> 0810 is an "official" beta BIOS
> 0078 is a TestBIOS from a dev (who is a genius)


yes, thanks, I had read the difference between the versions released by the genius. a great job done by bianbao.dev


----------



## Forsaken1

tibcsi0407 said:


> I believe that is already reached in Z690 Tachyon. Maybe @Forsaken1 could tell us more about it.
> It's a 10 layers 2 dimm board. Can't be weak in terms of memory oc.


Its a fun board with quality components.Bios updates no where as abundant as Asus.
Often pull my hair out but that’s a Ddr5 thing and or current weak cpu 13600K.Personally have not posted above 8200 subambient.When is the KS launching.

Sergmann and others doing ok.


GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon


----------



## tibcsi0407

Forsaken1 said:


> Its a fun board with quality components.Bios updates no where as abundant as Asus.
> Often pull my hair out but that’s a Ddr5 thing and or current weak cpu 13600K.Personally have not posted above 8200 subambient.When is the KS launching.
> 
> Sergmann and others doing ok.
> 
> 
> GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon


8000 is already a nice one with 13600k. 🙂
I had AORUS Ultra with my 12900k, it wasn't a good memory OC board, but in the end Gigabyte started to release some nice bios where they improved the memory OC a lot. 6400 was my best on that with M die. It was not bad from a 6 layer 4 dimm board. Who knows maybe A die could do 7000 on that. It's actually behind me in the cabinet. 🙂


----------



## asdkj1740

Forsaken1 said:


> Its a fun board with quality components.Bios updates no where as abundant as Asus.
> Often pull my hair out but that’s a Ddr5 thing and or current weak cpu 13600K.Personally have not posted above 8200 subambient.When is the KS launching.
> 
> Sergmann and others doing ok.
> 
> 
> GIGABYTE Z690 Tachyon


but 13600k has the best latency performance (lowest latency), which is great for online masturbation.


----------



## asdkj1740

share a result made outside aorus lab, although the z790 tachyon is a media sample as clearly stated in the unboxing article.
m die 7600c32, by teamgroup delta rgb 6000mhz 16*2 kit, air cooled with original heatsink attached plus the stupid rgb is on.
(not mine)
btw i am told the latest f2b bios is way better than the first released bios f1, and tachyon z790 is coming very soon (first batch eta jan 2023, before cny 22/1).


























技嘉極限超頻底板Z790 AORUS TACHYON開箱 ADIE MDIE通殺 - 悠二硬件Yujihw


引言 包裝&配件 底板外觀 插頭接連 拆散 PCB用料 總結 引言 現時市




yujihw.com


----------



## Dragonsyph

This might be dumb but since ddr5 is already duel channel, can you run 1 stick lol? And can you even run ddr5 in gear 1?
What’s best value ddr5? 7200cl 32 and oc to 8k?

I have z790 Hero and am waiting for 13900ks. Paired with my new 4090 tuf woot.


----------



## asdkj1740

Dragonsyph said:


> This might be dumb but since ddr5 is already duel channel, can you run 1 stick lol? And can you even run ddr5 in gear 1?
> What’s best value ddr5? 7200cl 32 and oc to 8k?
> 
> I have z790 Hero and am waiting for 13900ks. Paired with my new 4090 tuf woot.


of course you can, and you can also find some testings on youtube about ddr5 one stick vs two sticks, the performance hit is almost nothing.
there is no gear 1 for ddr5, even intel has never mentioned that in documents ever.
the best value is 4800 / 5600, complete stability always wins, ddr5 oc is a joke if you had come here a year before. ddr5 oc is like my english.
for m15h, 7600~7800 is expected generally. go get some klevv 5600 black stick or hynix green stick.
rtx4090, you probably wont play games at 1080p and if you are not a fps gamer the 1% low fsp improvement over a well tuned ddr5 oc is not important to you either.
please note that the majority of media globally is still using 6000 xmp for games tests.


----------



## Dragonsyph

asdkj1740 said:


> of course you can, and you can also find some testings on youtube about ddr5 one stick vs two sticks, the performance hit is almost nothing.
> there is no gear 1 for ddr5, even intel has never mentioned that in documents ever.
> the best value is 4800 / 5600, complete stability always wins, ddr5 oc is a joke if you had come here a year before. ddr5 oc is like my english.
> for m15h, 7600~7800 is expected generally. go get some klevv 5600 black stick or hynix green stick.
> rtx4090, you probably wont play games at 1080p and if you are not a fps gamer the 1% low fsp improvement over a well tuned ddr5 oc is not important to you either.
> please note that the majority of media globally is still using 6000 xmp for games tests.


great information, thanks mate.

so it’s def not worth buying 8000mhz for 459 , better to get same die bit lower clocks and oc it self for half the cost?

ya I’m on 4K 138hz Asus oled. Love the colors

I am exited to even try oc ram, never done it before but seems fun like cpu oc.


----------



## asdkj1740

Dragonsyph said:


> great information, thanks mate.
> 
> so it’s def not worth buying 8000mhz for 459 , better to get same die bit lower clocks and oc it self for half the cost?
> 
> ya I’m on 4K 138hz Asus oled. Love the colors
> 
> I am exited to even try oc ram, never done it before but seems fun like cpu oc.


"I am exited to even try oc ram, never done it before but seems fun like cpu oc."
BACKUP YOUR OS BEFORE TRYING DDR OCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC


"better to get same die bit lower clocks and oc it self for half the cost"
if and only if you can make it. stability after reboots is also a thing...
but hynix a die 5600 OEM stick is so good. klevv makes it even better but it may not be available globally.

dont get gskill 8000, i saw a guy who uses z790 apex saying he cant even enable xmp with 100% stability.
for 4 dimm mobo with 8 layers PCB like hero, you should only get 7600 xmp kit if you have nowhere to spend your money.


----------



## Dragonsyph

asdkj1740 said:


> "I am exited to even try oc ram, never done it before but seems fun like cpu oc."
> BACKUP YOUR OS BEFORE TRYING DDR OCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
> 
> 
> "better to get same die bit lower clocks and oc it self for half the cost"
> if and only if you can make it. stability after reboots is also a thing...
> but hynix a die 5600 OEM stick is so good. klevv makes it even better but it may not be available globally.
> 
> dont get gskill 8000, i saw a guy who uses z790 apex saying he cant even enable xmp with 100% stability.
> for 4 dimm mobo with 8 layers PCB like hero, you should only get 7600 xmp if you have nowhere to spend your money.


Ok thanks mate, god bless.


----------



## asdkj1740

Dragonsyph said:


> Ok thanks mate, god bless.


looks for hynix a die, hynix m die is also good enough actaully.


----------



## asdkj1740

Nizzen said:


> It's all about knowledge, invested time, good imc, good cooling and more time invested.
> 
> Many here already got 7600 to 8000mhz stable on z790 Hero.
> 
> Qvl doesn't mean 100% working for everyone in every scenario.
> Just look at Gigabyte 8000mhz qvl on Z790 master. Noone has seen 8000mhz outside the gigabyte lab 😆


not mine. that guy is probably again outside the gigabyte aorus lab.
z790 aorus master 8000mhz, although it passes 1usmus 3 cycles test only.













动态-哔哩哔哩







t.bilibili.com


----------



## dumassnoob

asdkj1740 said:


> "I am exited to even try oc ram, never done it before but seems fun like cpu oc."
> BACKUP YOUR OS BEFORE TRYING DDR OCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
> 
> 
> "better to get same die bit lower clocks and oc it self for half the cost"
> if and only if you can make it. stability after reboots is also a thing...
> but hynix a die 5600 OEM stick is so good. klevv makes it even better but it may not be available globally.
> 
> dont get gskill 8000, i saw a guy who uses z790 apex saying he cant even enable xmp with 100% stability.
> *for 4 dimm mobo with 8 layers PCB like hero, you should only get 7600 xmp kit if you have nowhere to spend your money.*


For me these are my results so far:
Gigabyte UD AC Mobo
2x16gb T-Force 7200mhz xmp1(7200mhz [email protected]) = flawless
4x16gb T-Force 7200mhz xmp4(5600mhz [email protected]) = flawless

So in a 4 dimm config, it seems like to me the A-die will run standard M-die timings easily, atleast in my case.


----------



## J_Lab4645

centvalny said:


> Never hide anything when posting here @ OCN since M5G
> All ROG
> 
> View attachment 2591218


So your bios is 0018. Can you replicate the same results on other Bios? .....I'm on 0810 (Apex Z790). Also your IMC v = <1.4 to get in the 4's on Aida latency. To me...that is outstanding!
What the hey is your IMC SP?


----------



## asdkj1740

dumassnoob said:


> For me these are my results so far:
> Gigabyte UD AC Mobo
> 2x16gb T-Force 7200mhz xmp1(7200mhz [email protected]) = flawless
> 4x16gb T-Force 7200mhz xmp4(5600mhz [email protected]) = flawless
> 
> So in a 4 dimm config, it seems like to me the A-die will run standard M-die timings easily, atleast in my case.


good try, can you run ~6400mhz for 4 sticks setup?


----------



## dumassnoob

asdkj1740 said:


> good try, can you run ~6400mhz for 4 sticks setup?


I plan on trying this weekend, possibly on sunday. tbh i loaded it up earlier and it took like 2 minutes to post so i got scared and went back into the bios before it booted to os. I have to make another memtest flash drive before trying any more profiles. i am curious if i need to lift SA for 4 dimms and switch the power management to per pmic. i tried it at xmp1 when i bricked windows. it actually booted into windows several times at 7200mhz before the bsod came.


----------



## affxct

Oleksii1977 said:


> yes


No way that's crazy! So this board can actually consistently do over 8000MT/s stable with the 820A 6400C32? Unfortunately my kit is tapped out at 1.55V for 7600C34, but that's really awesome to hear. It seems as though the Apex is maximising D5.


----------



## acoustic

With my Hynix M-Die under-water, I'm trying to test how far I can push them. Previously, I was stuck at 7000 34-42-42-54 (don't see performance increase from tRAS below tRP + 12). Temps would get into the ~50s with the IceManCooler heatsinks with no active cooling besides my top rad blowing as intake.

With water, I see max ~30c; DIMM temp is essentially ~1-3c above WaterT. It's amazing!

Unfortunately, I just cannot get 7200 to post stable without stupid voltages like 1.450v CPU VDDQ TX, and then I still pull CPU IMC errors in TM5 1Usmus. I 100% believe the motherboard is to blame, as I'm running 1.365v CPU VDDQ TX for 7000. Massive voltage spike needed for 7200 tells me that the voltage is being used to overcome signal integrity issues. Z690 Unify-X ftw, amirite 

So I'm able to crank up my DIMM VDD, but I can't really mess with CPU VDDQ TX or DIMM VDDQ, as they're tuned in already. I'm currently testing:

32-40-40-52
CPU VDDQ TX - 1.365v
CPU VDD2 - 1.40v
DIMM VDD - 1.53v
DIMM VDDQ - 1.375v

This is going to be my daily profile, so looking to reduce latency as much as possible. Main things I plan on tweaking if the primaries are stable at 32-40-40-52, are pushing tRFC down below the current 388/296, and maxing tREFI @ 255k, or at least getting it around 255k / 2. I'm curious if just tweaking DIMM VDD will allow me to maybe push 1T CR? I'm thinking it will stress the board more though, and cause further issues.

Just realized I forgot to tweak tCWL down by 2 to follow my tCL dropping -2. Add that to the list of things to lower!

If I can't get 1T, then I'm going to try manually setting my RTLs down further than the 67/67 I have them set to now.


----------



## affxct

These are on two separate BIOSs, so this config appears to be re-flash and re-train stable spanning four days between testing. Top is 2.05 and bottom is 2.06. The Z690 Dark finally gained a tRCD WR register, and 10 seems to be a free timing. The top config is effectively threading the needle; it took testing different ODT adjustments, and the voltage rails have effectively no play. This was super freakin’ hard to stabilise with my 13700K SP 79’s IMC (dunno the exact MC SP).

Hardware:
Z690 Dark Kingpin (2.06)
Z5 6400C32 820A H16A
i7-13700K SP 79 (P 89, E 59)

Voltage and Resistance Settings:
VCCSA: 1.3V/TX VDDQ: 1.3V
DRAM VDD/DRAM VDDQ/VDD2: 1.55V
VCCIN/VPP: 1.8V
MC/SA PLL: 1.02V
RttWr - 34 Ohm (I use 0 Ohm for 7200MT/s & 7400MT/s)
RttNomRd - 48 Ohm
RttNomWr - 48 Ohm
RttPark - 40 Ohm
RttParkDqs - 34 Ohm

Primaries: 34-46-10-46-34
CR: 2T
Secondaries & Tertiaries: As per screenshot
Power Down: Disabled

A word on ODTs and PLLs:
My 7200MT/s config with 0.96V MC & SA PLLs and Auto ODTs required 1.425V VDD/VDDQ/VDD2 and seemingly 1.4V TX VDDQ. When I raised the MC & SA PLLs to 1.02V and altered my ODTs (0/48/48/40/34), I could no longer pass ABSOLUT, and needed to reduce my VDD/VDDQ/VDD2 progressively until I landed at 1.35V. Optimising my PLLs and ODTs basically changed MRC and my MB/IMC/IC relationship completely. It also seems as though 7400 and 7600 have far superior MRC integrity and are less prone to random BS (for lack of a better term).

Basically - you might want to play around with PLLs and ODTs.


----------



## acoustic

I've yet to find good ODT settings for M-Die; seems to be pretty popular for A-Die users, though.

I've tried messing with the PLLs before, but it did nothing for me. Maybe with the combination of ODT settings, it may help? Something to consider, when I want to try above 7000 again.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I've yet to find good ODT settings for M-Die; seems to be pretty popular for A-Die users, though.
> 
> I've tried messing with the PLLs before, but it did nothing for me. Maybe with the combination of ODT settings, it may help? Something to consider, when I want to try above 7000 again.


Definitely - it changed EVERYTHING for me. Before ODTs my Dark and IMC were basically incapable of managing my A-die MRC with any respectable level of consistency or decency. I actually began to hate my board (and DRAM OCing) for a few weeks.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> View attachment 2591483
> View attachment 2591484
> 
> 
> These are on two separate BIOSs, so this config appears to be re-flash and re-train stable spanning four days between testing. Top is 2.05 and bottom is 2.06. The Z690 Dark finally gained a tRCD WR register, and 10 seems to be a free timing. The top config is effectively threading the needle; it took testing different ODT adjustments, and the voltage rails have effectively no play. This was super freakin’ hard to stabilise with my 13700K SP 79’s IMC (dunno the exact MC SP).
> 
> Hardware:
> Z690 Dark Kingpin (2.06)
> Z5 6400C32 820A H16A
> i7-13700K SP 79 (P 89, E 59)
> 
> Voltage and Resistance Settings:
> VCCSA: 1.3V/TX VDDQ: 1.3V
> DRAM VDD/DRAM VDDQ/VDD2: 1.55V
> VCCIN/VPP: 1.8V
> MC/SA PLL: 1.02V
> RttWr - 34 Ohm (I use 0 Ohm for 7200MT/s & 7400MT/s)
> RttNomRd - 48 Ohm
> RttNomWr - 48 Ohm
> RttPark - 40 Ohm
> RttParkDqs - 34 Ohm
> 
> Primaries: 34-46-10-46-34
> CR: 2T
> Secondaries & Tertiaries: As per screenshot
> Power Down: Disabled
> 
> A word on ODTs and PLLs:
> My 7200MT/s config with 0.96V MC & SA PLLs and Auto ODTs required 1.425V VDD/VDDQ/VDD2 and seemingly 1.4V TX VDDQ. When I raised the MC & SA PLLs to 1.02V and altered my ODTs (0/48/48/40/34), I could no longer pass ABSOLUT, and needed to reduce my VDD/VDDQ/VDD2 progressively until I landed at 1.35V. Optimising my PLLs and ODTs basically changed MRC and my MB/IMC/IC relationship completely. It also seems as though 7400 and 7600 have far superior MRC integrity and are less prone to random BS (for lack of a better term).
> 
> Basically - you might want to play around with PLLs and ODTs.


Nice! Do you have any tutorial about RTT values. I can also reach 7600 on my Hero, but 7800 is a harder one. I was able to make it stable about 3 times with 3 different voltage combinations, but all of them was stable until next reboot.. Then it wasn't able to train the same stability for me. I believe it should be something with ODT training.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Definitely - it changed EVERYTHING for me. Before ODTs my Dark and IMC were basically incapable of managing my A-die MRC with any respectable level of consistency or decency. I actually began to hate my board (and DRAM OCing) for a few weeks.


Where did you find ODT info, and do you have anything specific for M-Die? I'm assuming A-Die ODT settings will not work very well with M-Die ICs.


----------



## affxct

@tibcsi0407 @acoustic 
I knew from Ryzen days that ODTs mattered for that last bit of stability, so as a last ditch I tried some settings that Mr Fox gave me on EVGA forums and they allowed me to lock in a 7600 confit that passed ABSOLUT twice early this week). A lot of it was inference and guesswork, but it ran. Part of it was also testing PLL settings which is where I stumbled upon 1.02. 1.05 might also work, but I’m not sure.

Unfortunately the 7600 config wasn’t IMC-stable. I initially began to test with tRP and tRCD RD, but then transitioned to combinations of VDD, VDDQ and VDD2 to identify if the issue is a lack of surplus of voltage. I made the call that 1.55 seemed to be a lock and that more or less didn’t appear to be helping. I didn’t know that 1.55 was the only working value at the time.

Eventually I stumbled upon tRRDS and tFAW as a means of relieving IMC stress and I used that method along with tRTP/tWR 14 to get the 7400 tune I have stable in y-cruncher (7200 ran first time). 7600 seemed to like 8 tRRDS and tFAW 32 but it wasn’t enough. Eventually I just started testing individual ODTs because I realised there was no other way. After a while I came to determine that Mr Fox’s settings with an adjustment to RttWr was the best combo for y-cruncher and then I made a final guess that tRTP/tWR 16 were too high and that tRCDRD/tRP 45 were too low. After that it ran.

Essentially; you need to go over all your voltages and timings first to make sure there isn’t an easy fix. After you’ve derived a basis of understanding of how your setup behaves, you have to begin adjusting ODTs in a direction, but while respecting the sort of ratio I have. Typically RttWr is going to roughly hovering around RttPark and RttParkDqs. QXE used 48/120/120/40/40, as an example. That’s a slightly different spread but it follows a rough trend. All you’d need to determine then is if the adjustment up or down is helping or hurting, usually you’ll know which direction and eventually you’ll be able to lock in what works. It’s tedious but that’s unfortunately the only way. High ODTs are going to require more voltage and low ODTs should theoretically bring down voltage requirements as per the 7200 config story. But you’ll need to manipulate them because your config is either in a voltage surplus or deficit for either data rate or timings and it’ll either end requiring higher ODTs and more voltage or lower and less. Usually there doesn’t seem to be much play with D5. You kinda need to end up being perfect which is what makes it so impossible once you’re at the edge of what your hardware supports.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> @tibcsi0407 @acoustic
> I knew from Ryzen days that ODTs mattered for that last bit of stability, so as a last ditch I tried some settings that Mr Fox gave me on EVGA forums and they allowed me to lock in a 7600 confit that passed ABSOLUT twice early this week). A lot of it was inference and guesswork, but it ran. Part of it was also testing PLL settings which is where I stumbled upon 1.02. 1.05 might also work, but I’m not sure.
> 
> Unfortunately the 7600 config wasn’t IMC-stable. I initially began to test with tRP and tRCD RD, but then transitioned to combinations of VDD, VDDQ and VDD2 to identify if the issue is a lack of surplus of voltage. I made the call that 1.55 seemed to be a lock and that more or less didn’t appear to be helping. I didn’t know that 1.55 was the only working value at the time.
> 
> Eventually I stumbled upon tRRDS and tFAW as a means of relieving IMC stress and I used that method along with tRTP/tWR 14 to get the 7400 tune I have stable in y-cruncher (7200 ran first time). 7600 seemed to like 8 tRRDS and tFAW 32 but it wasn’t enough. Eventually I just started testing individual ODTs because I realised there was no other way. After a while I came to determine that Mr Fox’s settings with an adjustment to RttWr was the best combo for y-cruncher and then I made a final guess that tRTP/tWR 16 were too high and that tRCDRD/tRP 45 were too low. After that it ran.
> 
> Essentially; you need to go over all your voltages and timings first to make sure there isn’t an easy fix. After you’ve derived a basis of understanding of how your setup behaves, you have to begin adjusting ODTs in a direction, but while respecting the sort of ratio I have. Typically RttWr is going to roughly hovering around RttPark and RttParkDqs. QXE used 48/120/120/40/40, as an example. That’s a slightly different spread but it follows a rough trend. All you’d need to determine then is if the adjustment up or down is helping or hurting, usually you’ll know which direction and eventually you’ll be able to lock in what works. It’s tedious but that’s unfortunately the only way. High ODTs are going to require more voltage and low ODTs should theoretically bring down voltage requirements as per the 7200 config story. But you’ll need to manipulate them because your config is either in a voltage surplus or deficit for either data rate or timings and it’ll either end requiring higher ODTs and more voltage or lower and less. Usually there doesn’t seem to be much play with D5. You kinda need to end up being perfect which is what makes it so impossible once you’re at the edge of what your hardware supports.


I have similar issues. On the edge of stability I got 1 single error in 10 Cycles of Usmus. I believe when errors not in a row you can stabilize it by adjusting here and there.


----------



## thebski

Hey guys,

Forgive me for not reading the 574 pages of this thread, lol. Has anyone had good luck with the 13900K and a Z690 Apex? I just ordered a new G.Skill kit (7800Mhz) as I've finally completed my cooling loop and got around to OC'ing this 13900K. Life was just too busy and never really got to it with my 12900K, plus I just had a day 1 Vengeance DDR5 kit I bought to get it up and going. I'm excited to play with DDR5 tuning for the first time with this setup. I've thought about picking up a Z790 Apex, but I figure I'll see what this Z690 Apex will do first unless I run into big issues with it.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> I have similar issues. On the edge of stability I got 1 single error in 10 Cycles of Usmus. I believe when errors not in a row you can stabilize it by adjusting here and there.


Yeah 1 error is not bad, I think you have it. Maybe play around with ODTs a bit and see if it gets you over the line. It depends how bad Auto is for your config, in my case Auto was completely detrimental. PLLs as well could get you there, but not all CPUs scale with PLL.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> Yeah 1 error is not bad, I think you have it. Maybe play around with ODTs a bit and see if it gets you over the line. It depends how bad Auto is for your config, in my case Auto was completely detrimental. PLLs as well could get you there, but not all CPUs scale with PLL.


I have no idea what are the auto values. I can only check them in Octool, but not sure that's reliable at all. With PLL's I never had any luck actually. I can even boot on 8000, but never tried above since it's not stable.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> I have no idea what are the auto values. I can only check them in Octool, but not sure that's reliable at all. With PLL's I never had any luck actually. I can even boot on 8000, but never tried above since it's not stable.


Z790 Hero I see. You should be good for 7800 tbh, what are you busy stabilising?


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> Z790 Hero I see. You should be good for 7800 tbh, what are you busy stabilising?


Should be. But not for everyone. It was stable several times, even on 1.40V VDD/VDDQ, but I lost it after reboot. Loaded the same setting from BIOS, but cannot stabilize with the same values anymore. I believe it is related to the training, sometimes it trains good, and after that it can't do that. Really inconsistent. Maybe future BIOS releases will help in this, it's not an old board, so it will be better with time.
Already seen even 8000 stable from @safedisk .


----------



## bscool

z790i Edge bios 1.33 

[OFFICIAL] MSI Z790 Owners Thread


----------



## acoustic

Down to 32-39-39-50. DRAM VDD @ 1.55v, DRAM VDDQ @ 1.435v. CPU setting still the same. tREFI @ 131072. I had to raise DRAM VDDQ as I was getting fails around ~1800% Karhu. I passed overnight 50k% at 32-40-40-52 with tREFI 131072. Temps still at 30-31c 

Pushing 375mb/s in Karhu now. That's a ~8mb/s improvement just off timing improvements, and taking tREFI from 65536 to 131072. It's mostly driven by the tREFI though, I imagine.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> Should be. But not for everyone. It was stable several times, even on 1.40V VDD/VDDQ, but I lost it after reboot. Loaded the same setting from BIOS, but cannot stabilize with the same values anymore. I believe it is related to the training, sometimes it trains good, and after that it can't do that. Really inconsistent. Maybe future BIOS releases will help in this, it's not an old board, so it will be better with time.
> Already seen even 8000 stable from @safedisk .


You did disable MRC fast boot, right?


----------



## mechatron_prime

Has anyone overclocked some of the microcenter free ram kits (flare x5 ddr5 6000 cl30), some of them M-die or A-die chips. Wanted to see some overclocks with those specific kits on intel platform.


----------



## Razor333

asdkj1740 said:


> not mine. that guy is probably again outside the gigabyte aorus lab.
> z790 aorus master 8000mhz, although it passes 1usmus 3 cycles test only.
> View attachment 2591446
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 动态-哔哩哔哩
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> t.bilibili.com


I would like to see some voltages of this setup. Do you have the original source?


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> You did disable MRC fast boot, right?


Of course. Did not help. Doesn't train the same twice.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> Of course. Did not help. Doesn't train the same twice.


Dammit. It's possible that VDD2 is a bit high/too low perhaps? I've noticed VDD2 being particularly finicky on ASUS Z690s in the past.


----------



## acoustic

tibcsi0407 said:


> Of course. Did not help. Doesn't train the same twice.


What POST code does it fail retraining? Are you seeing 4C->55 or is it going all the way through to 55 and then failing? If it's 4C directly to 55 (should be 0d after 4C, but if it fails at 4C, it'll show 55 immediately after and recycle training), could be CPU VDDQ TX, or DRAM VDDQ. If that's the case, try adding 0.005 or 0.010v to CPU VDDQ TX, and try again. If that doesn't help, go back to the prior CPU VDDQ TX, and raise DRAM VDDQ 0.005 or 0.010v and try. Again, if it fails, try both raised together.



affxct said:


> Dammit. It's possible that VDD2 is a bit high/too low perhaps? I've noticed VDD2 being particularly finicky on ASUS Z690s in the past.


Retrain issues are either the board not liking the frequency (limitation, no way around it) or slightly off CPU VDDQ TX/DRAM VDDQ, as far as I've seen.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> What POST code does it fail retraining? Are you seeing 4C->55 or is it going all the way through to 55 and then failing? If it's 4C directly to 55 (should be 0d after 4C, but if it fails at 4C, it'll show 55 immediately after and recycle training), could be CPU VDDQ TX, or DRAM VDDQ. If that's the case, try adding 0.005 or 0.010v to CPU VDDQ TX, and try again. If that doesn't help, go back to the prior CPU VDDQ TX, and raise DRAM VDDQ 0.005 or 0.010v and try. Again, if it fails, try both raised together.
> 
> 
> 
> Retrain issues are either the board not liking the frequency (limitation, no way around it) or slightly off CPU VDDQ TX/DRAM VDDQ, as far as I've seen.


Possibly. Basically, any voltage rail could be responsible. And this is why ODT testing is a must these days 😭. I was having reboot instability at 7400. For all intents and purposes, my board was a lost cause.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Possibly. Basically, any voltage rail could be responsible. And this is why ODT testing is a must these days 😭. I was having reboot instability at 7400. For all intents and purposes, my board was a lost cause.


I might be stuck at 7000, but it's going to be the tightest 7000 any of you ****ers have ever seen. LOL

32-39-39-50 stable 10k Karhu. Tightened tWR up to 10. tWTR and tWTR_L to 12/22 now.

Now to start hitting tRFC..


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> Dammit. It's possible that VDD2 is a bit high/too low perhaps? I've noticed VDD2 being particularly finicky on ASUS Z690s in the past.


Played a lot with it. It has a sweet spot actually. At 7800 is about 1.35V


----------



## dumassnoob

Lot of people claiming to reach better performance with 4 dimm, but i haven't seen anyone share proof so i'm sharing mine as a baseline i guess. Any ideas or suggestions welcome, I am noob after all .


----------



## delirious1

Hello. Recently upgraded from a z390 to a z790 Dark kingpin. Purchased the gskill 7600 hynex A die. XMP profile has them stabile at 7600 at 1.4 volts. I'm trying to get 7800 to stabilize and I can't seem to get it. I will admit it's been a while since I've overclocked anything, let alone ddr5. I would like some recommendations of voltages to get 7800 and perhaps 8000 to pass memtest. I've been reading the forum here and am just trying to get a daily faster speed than 7600. I also would like to keep voltages in a safe range. Thanks for any help.


----------



## tibcsi0407

acoustic said:


> What POST code does it fail retraining? Are you seeing 4C->55 or is it going all the way through to 55 and then failing? If it's 4C directly to 55 (should be 0d after 4C, but if it fails at 4C, it'll show 55 immediately after and recycle training), could be CPU VDDQ TX, or DRAM VDDQ. If that's the case, try adding 0.005 or 0.010v to CPU VDDQ TX, and try again. If that doesn't help, go back to the prior CPU VDDQ TX, and raise DRAM VDDQ 0.005 or 0.010v and try. Again, if it fails, try both raised together.
> 
> 
> 
> Retrain issues are either the board not liking the frequency (limitation, no way around it) or slightly off CPU VDDQ TX/DRAM VDDQ, as far as I've seen.


It didn't fail. Actually this config is always aw to train. Even on 8000. l can boot windows without any issue, even bench it. The problems are with stress test stability.


----------



## acoustic

tibcsi0407 said:


> It didn't fail. Actually this config is always aw to train. Even on 8000. l can boot windows without any issue, even bench it. The problems are with stress test stability.


Ah. I misread. With inconsistent training, then it can be slightly low DRAM VDD, or CPU VDDQ TX from my experience. When you run 1usmus, what tests is it failing on?


----------



## acoustic

delirious1 said:


> Hello. Recently upgraded from a z390 to a z790 Dark kingpin. Purchased the gskill 7600 hynex A die. XMP profile has them stabile at 7600 at 1.4 volts. I'm trying to get 7800 to stabilize and I can't seem to get it. I will admit it's been a while since I've overclocked anything, let alone ddr5. I would like some recommendations of voltages to get 7800 and perhaps 8000 to pass memtest. I've been reading the forum here and am just trying to get a daily faster speed than 7600. I also would like to keep voltages in a safe range. Thanks for any help.


Truthfully, DDR5 OCing is somewhat complicated. 7600 is very fast, but once you start pushing 7800+, there are other factors at play, such as your RAM sticks, and your CPU IMC. The Z790 DARK KP is an amazing board from what I've heard.

I'm assuming you're using stock (auto?) voltages, but just changed the frequency to 7800. You could try raising your DRAM VDD a little higher, but there are things you need to look at - with the GSKILL kits, main concern will be temperatures. How hot are your sticks getting? GSKILL heatspreaders are kinda poor imo, and not fully thermal-padded.

If you're hitting in the high 50s-low 60s, as I'd expect without active fan cooling the RAM, I'd leave it at 7600 and call it a day, at least for now. This thread is a wealth of knowledge and information, and as you spend more time reading/learning, you'll figure out ways to tweak.

I think 7600 is great. I'd focus on tightening your timings in order to lower your latency, rather than increasing frequency.


----------



## delirious1

acoustic said:


> Truthfully, DDR5 OCing is somewhat complicated. 7600 is very fast, but once you start pushing 7800+, there are other factors at play, such as your RAM sticks, and your CPU IMC. The Z790 DARK KP is an amazing board from what I've heard.
> 
> I'm assuming you're using stock (auto?) voltages, but just changed the frequency to 7800. You could try raising your DRAM VDD a little higher, but there are things you need to look at - with the GSKILL kits, main concern will be temperatures. How hot are your sticks getting? GSKILL heatspreaders are kinda poor imo, and not fully thermal-padded.
> 
> If you're hitting in the high 50s-low 60s, as I'd expect without active fan cooling the RAM, I'd leave it at 7600 and call it a day, at least for now. This thread is a wealth of knowledge and information, and as you spend more time reading/learning, you'll figure out ways to tweak.
> 
> I think 7600 is great. I'd focus on tightening your timings in order to lower your latency, rather than increasing frequency.


thank you! all stock voltages other than the dimm voltage. I'll try some of the things you stated. I'm perfectly ok with 7600. It's just the tweaker in me I want to satisfy. Wealth of knowledge is correct. will take me time to look through 500 plus pages.


----------



## acoustic

Well, I think I have excellent M-Die sticks, would probably be capable of pushing 7600, but alas, Z690 Unify-X with a bum ChA that won't do 7200.

1.55v VDD, 1.435v VDDQ, pushing 30-39-39-50. Couldn't believe tCL 30 posted..

Doesn’t seem like 1T is possible with this board. I keep getting the 4C->55 training loop. Typically means more CPU VDDQ TX or DRAM VDDQ, but I know DRAM VDDQ is good. Bumped CPU VDDQ TX, but it doesn’t seem to help. Might try manipulating CPU SA a bit.. currently using 1.050v.


----------



## 673714

Well, you can call me surprised. I had a friend who needed an aio, so I gave him a good price for my 280mm and got a 360.

I knew that would obviously improve cooling for the 13900K, and suspected it would help with the DDR5 temps based on the changes to radiator and fan placement.









In the previous configuration I had the radiator on top and so airflow was as shown by the arrows. The dimm near the front of the case blocked the dimm near the cpu from getting cool air from that direction. It wasn’t unusual for the 2 sticks of memory to be 5 degrees or more apart.

The 360mm would not fit on top in this case, and had to be placed in front. That meant the top fans would be reversed and become intake though, blowing nice cool air across both sticks of memory.










That is exactly what happened, now both sticks run cooler and within 1 degree of each other at all times.

Here’s the surprising part: I noticed the motherboard temperature was now at around 36 degrees Celsius instead of 50-51. When I ran Aida stability test I was stunned by what I saw next. Obviously the cpu and ram temperatures started to rise, but not the motherboard. It started to drop further and further until it leveled out at around 27 degrees


----------



## acoustic

Curious how low most people ran tRFC/pb on M-Die? I can't POST below 362/268. It's either POST and stable, or can't POST. Might be motherboard, again? I don't know. Seems like a rather high ceiling for M-Die.


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> Curious how low most people ran tRFC/pb on M-Die? I can't POST below 362/268. It's either POST and stable, or can't POST. Might be motherboard, again? I don't know. Seems like a rather ceiling for M-Die.


Ran m-die 7200c32 with trfc 320/240


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Ran m-die 7200c32 with trfc 320/240


If I lower either one even one value, I’ll fail training, lol. It’s stable at 362/268 though.. might just be the board being annoying.


----------



## DanGleeballs

acoustic said:


> Curious how low most people ran tRFC/pb on M-Die? I can't POST below 362/268. It's either POST and stable, or can't POST. Might be motherboard, again? I don't know. Seems like a rather high ceiling for M-Die.


I'm 316/237 but only at 6800 haven't tried lower


----------



## tibcsi0407

acoustic said:


> Ah. I misread. With inconsistent training, then it can be slightly low DRAM VDD, or CPU VDDQ TX from my experience. When you run 1usmus, what tests is it failing on?


Mostly 10 or 15. Spreadsheet didn't help. Those came after 30 minutes. Heat can't be an issue.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Hey guys, Happy New Year!
Decided to upgrade my PC this evening, no I’m not drunk lol anyways, I installed a z790 Maximus Hero with. 13900k and G.Skill 7600mhz memory modules.
Runs great until I enable XMP. Once I enable XMP, I can’t even get this thing to post.
Any ideas? I’m thinking the XMP profile is not supported in the latest BIOS .
I have another 6000mhz kit that runs fine with XMP enabled.
How have you guys overcomed this problem. This G.Skill 7600 kit set me back 750USD for 64GB. I wouldnt want to run it at 7200mhz.


----------



## asdkj1740

delirious1 said:


> Hello. Recently upgraded from a z390 to a z790 Dark kingpin. Purchased the gskill 7600 hynex A die. XMP profile has them stabile at 7600 at 1.4 volts. I'm trying to get 7800 to stabilize and I can't seem to get it. I will admit it's been a while since I've overclocked anything, let alone ddr5. I would like some recommendations of voltages to get 7800 and perhaps 8000 to pass memtest. I've been reading the forum here and am just trying to get a daily faster speed than 7600. I also would like to keep voltages in a safe range. Thanks for any help.


z790 dark kingpin has already been available to buy for a while?

you should have posted some screenshots here about what have you set in bios for the 7800 oc. it should not be that difficult to reach 8200 and more on z790 dark kingpin.


----------



## tibcsi0407

LaBestiaHumana said:


> Hey guys, Happy New Year!
> Decided to upgrade my PC this evening, no I’m not drunk lol anyways, I installed a z790 Maximus Hero with. 13900k and G.Skill 7600mhz memory modules.
> Runs great until I enable XMP. Once I enable XMP, I can’t even get this thing to post.
> Any ideas? I’m thinking the XMP profile is not supported in the latest BIOS .
> I have another 6000mhz kit that runs fine with XMP enabled.
> How have you guys overcomed this problem. This G.Skill 7600 kit set me back 750USD for 64GB. I wouldnt want to run it at 7200mhz.


You need to set the MC and TX voltage manually. Start with 1.4V. also for SA you need to try a lower value. Like 1.15V
Disable MRC fastboot also help and probably a BIOS update would help too.

Sorry, I didn't read the 64 GB part somehow. It won't work on 7600.


----------



## Nizzen

LaBestiaHumana said:


> Hey guys, Happy New Year!
> Decided to upgrade my PC this evening, no I’m not drunk lol anyways, I installed a z790 Maximus Hero with. 13900k and G.Skill 7600mhz memory modules.
> Runs great until I enable XMP. Once I enable XMP, I can’t even get this thing to post.
> Any ideas? I’m thinking the XMP profile is not supported in the latest BIOS .
> I have another 6000mhz kit that runs fine with XMP enabled.
> How have you guys overcomed this problem. This G.Skill 7600 kit set me back 750USD for 64GB. I wouldnt want to run it at 7200mhz.


There is no 7600 64GB kit


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> There is no 7600 64GB kit


He probably bought two 32GB kits and assumed it would work at XMP.


----------



## Latchback

Betroz said:


> He probably bought two 32GB kits and assumed it would work at XMP.


Everyone knows you typically can't run two kits together and expect them to work at the advertised speeds or at XMP.

But there is secret. Trick if you will. Insider knowledge.

Everyone knows to get this situation to work you need to double the speed, double ram - double speed: Double Double, Double Data Rate (DD-DDR).

Run the ram at 15200MHz and it should work peachy, I work in the biz.


----------



## affxct

acoustic said:


> I might be stuck at 7000, but it's going to be the tightest 7000 any of you ****ers have ever seen. LOL
> 
> 32-39-39-50 stable 10k Karhu. Tightened tWR up to 10. tWTR and tWTR_L to 12/22 now.
> 
> Now to start hitting tRFC..


Go tWR/tRTP 6 and tRAS 28. Also like 56/44 tWRRDs, 18/18 tRDWRs and 12/7-9/7 tRDRDs and tWRWRs. Just keep tightening hehe.


----------



## affxct

tibcsi0407 said:


> Played a lot with it. It has a sweet spot actually. At 7800 is about 1.35V


That makes sense. I've observed a similar thing with boards I've used. It's more so the ability of your sample to maintain the voltage and have less distortion. Basically what ends up happening is you might need 1.4V for daily retrain stability, but past 1.35 your PCB sample distorts the signal. The only way to solve your retrain stability is going to be to mess with secondaries and maybe tRCD and tRP, as well as even tRAS, and see if you can't reduce the voltage requirement on that rail. We know you can't do more than 1.35 VDD2 so the goal has to be to find the timings that are pushing that rail to require 1.375-1.4 for reliability. This might even be a case of a better IMC solving everything for you.


----------



## affxct

asdkj1740 said:


> z790 dark kingpin has already been available to buy for a while?
> 
> you should have posted some screenshots here about what have you set in bios for the 7800 oc. it should not be that difficult to reach 8200 and more on z790 dark kingpin.


8200 is 2050 IMC clock and requires A-die that can run 8200 under ambient temps of 45-ish Celsius in some or other test. I assume he doesn't have DIMM cooling because he came from 390. It's unlikely he'll get to 8200, but 7800 is making me curious. I had to adjust a lot of finer settings on my 690 Dark for 7600 because of a poor IMC and poor A-die.


----------



## tibcsi0407

affxct said:


> That makes sense. I've observed a similar thing with boards I've used. It's more so the ability of your sample to maintain the voltage and have less distortion. Basically what ends up happening is you might need 1.4V for daily retrain stability, but past 1.35 your PCB sample distorts the signal. The only way to solve your retrain stability is going to be to mess with secondaries and maybe tRCD and tRP, as well as even tRAS, and see if you can't reduce the voltage requirement on that rail. We know you can't do more than 1.35 VDD2 so the goal has to be to find the timings that are pushing that rail to require 1.375-1.4 for reliability. This might even be a case of a better IMC solving everything for you.


The strange thing that on 7600 many different combinations are working, above I need sweet spot from the SA, VDD2 and TX trinity. That's hard to find.
The ASUS BIOS team will discuss internally to show the trained ODT values in the BIOS. Hope they will do it and that would help a lot.


----------



## RaMsiTo

I found this from some ddr3 memories 😁, It looks perfect on z790 hero with gskill 7600 to 7800 tweaked.


----------



## dante`afk

thebski said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Forgive me for not reading the 574 pages of this thread, lol. Has anyone had good luck with the 13900K and a Z690 Apex? I just ordered a new G.Skill kit (7800Mhz) as I've finally completed my cooling loop and got around to OC'ing this 13900K. Life was just too busy and never really got to it with my 12900K, plus I just had a day 1 Vengeance DDR5 kit I bought to get it up and going. I'm excited to play with DDR5 tuning for the first time with this setup. I've thought about picking up a Z790 Apex, but I figure I'll see what this Z690 Apex will do first unless I run into big issues with it.


unless it’s a 2022 or binned apex z690 you won’t get anywhere above 6400


----------



## delirious1

affxct said:


> 8200 is 2050 IMC clock and requires A-die that can run 8200 under ambient temps of 45-ish Celsius in some or other test. I assume he doesn't have DIMM cooling because he came from 390. It's unlikely he'll get to 8200, but 7800 is making me curious. I had to adjust a lot of finer settings on my 690 Dark for 7600 because of a poor IMC and poor A-die.


no memory cooler. I have one, just need to go look for it and try. Tried 3 passes of memtest last night and got one error on the second pass and it was time to spend time with the family for new years, so I shut it down. Working 7800 with 1.45 vdimm, gear set to auto, vddq set to auto (although it registers as 1.455). pretty much everything on xmp1 for timings. although I did try loosening those at one point. VSA set to 1.26 and Imc voltage set to 1.3 (although I am currently working on this in either direction) I also plugged in all the timings and voltage that gskill has on there listed 7800 modules, which didn't work either. Currently it's throwing a couple of errors around test 7,8 of memtest. And I normally get a free and clear pass on pass one. It's pass 2 that the errors show. So I am leaning towards heat as the issue since It's pass 2. Going fishing in the closet for the memory cooler today.


----------



## thebski

dante`afk said:


> unless it’s a 2022 or binned apex z690 you won’t get anywhere above 6400


I bought it on launch. Why would that be? Did they change something halfway through?


----------



## TraumatikOC

thebski said:


> I bought it on launch. Why would that be? Did they change something halfway through?


----------



## thebski

TraumatikOC said:


> View attachment 2591754


Help me out, what did they change?

Mine would definitely be from the first batch of production.

Kind of stupid to have a $700 motherboard that's main selling point is memory OC when it has defective memory OC.


----------



## rulik006

thebski said:


> Help me out, what did they change?
> 
> Mine would definitely be from the first batch of production.
> 
> Kind of stupid to have a $700 motherboard that's main selling point is memory OC when it has defective memory OC.


One Motherboard, Two Faces - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex review with Teardown, RAM- & Adaptive Core-OC | Page 6 | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)


----------



## thebski

rulik006 said:


> One Motherboard, Two Faces - ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex review with Teardown, RAM- & Adaptive Core-OC | Page 6 | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)


Thanks for the link. That sucks though. I guess new motherboard it is. Without pouring through the whole thread, what should one expect the difference between the 790 Hero and Apex to he with regards to memory OC? I've always bought Apex boards, but they're OOS everywhere. I can pick a Hero up at Micro Center today, but would rather wait if there is a big difference. From what I've read through this thread, I guess my target would be 8000 MHz with timings as tight as possible.


----------



## rulik006

thebski said:


> Thanks for the link. That sucks though. I guess new motherboard it is. Without pouring through the whole thread, what should one expect the difference between the 790 Hero and Apex to he with regards to memory OC? I've always bought Apex boards, but they're OOS everywhere. I can pick a Hero up at Micro Center today, but would rather wait if there is a big difference. From what I've read through this thread, I guess my target would be 8000 MHz with timings as tight as possible.


Z790 hero 7600-7800
Z790 apex 8200+


----------



## thebski

rulik006 said:


> Z790 hero 7600-7800
> Z790 apex 8200+


Got it. Thanks. I'll probably wait for another Apex.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Latchback said:


> Everyone knows you typically can't run two kits together and expect them to work at the advertised speeds or at XMP.
> 
> But there is secret. Trick if you will. Insider knowledge.
> 
> Everyone knows to get this situation to work you need to double the speed, double ram - double speed: Double Double, Double Data Rate (DD-DDR).
> 
> Run the ram at 15200MHz and it should work peachy, I work in the biz.


9/10 times they work. Even with different brand sticks. Only time I’ve had issues is with extreme speeds, they run great at 7200mhz, but not at 7600.
Even the 32GB will not run at 7600mhz.

anyone have a Beta Bios for the Hero z790?
NVM. Found it in the motherboard forum.

Beta Bios successfully runs XMP 7600mhz 32GB kit


----------



## affxct

delirious1 said:


> no memory cooler. I have one, just need to go look for it and try. Tried 3 passes of memtest last night and got one error on the second pass and it was time to spend time with the family for new years, so I shut it down. Working 7800 with 1.45 vdimm, gear set to auto, vddq set to auto (although it registers as 1.455). pretty much everything on xmp1 for timings. although I did try loosening those at one point. VSA set to 1.26 and Imc voltage set to 1.3 (although I am currently working on this in either direction) I also plugged in all the timings and voltage that gskill has on there listed 7800 modules, which didn't work either. Currently it's throwing a couple of errors around test 7,8 of memtest. And I normally get a free and clear pass on pass one. It's pass 2 that the errors show. So I am leaning towards heat as the issue since It's pass 2. Going fishing in the closet for the memory cooler today.


Hold up. Try 1.3 VCCSA, 1.3 CPU VDDQ, match CPU VDD2 to your DRAM VDD/VDDQ, and try 34/48/48/40/34 on the ODT settings. See if you can do 1.02 MC/SA PLL (also works well for BZ). The PLLs should only be helpful unless you have a chip that doesn't scale PLLs well. Also disable power-down mode. See how you go after those adjustments. 1.45 CPU/TX VDDQ is far too high. DIMM cooling is also an absolute necessity if you're hunting anything over 7000 in reality. Unless you're dialling in something like the 1.35V 7200 tune I have, there's no way your result will be heat stable enough to run. Unfortunately with D5, y-cruncher VST/Linpack/LinX + TM5 1usmus or ABSOLUT is a must. Disable E-cores and try and lock in as conservative of a core clock/voltage combo while doing y-cruncher to avoid degradation (very real possibility these days). Also don't forget to lock in tRCD WR 10 before you begin testing for stability.

As an aside, if you have good ambients and you can find some sort of cooling solution that can keep your DIMMs below 50c during TestMem5 ABSOLUT, y-cruncher or any sort of game, it is actually not totally unreasonable to daily 1.55V. 1.6V is a bit sus on air cooling, and 1.65V+ pretty much requires DIMM liquid cooling, something a lot of OCN members actually have these days. At 1.55V, 8200 might be doable depending on your CPU's IMC. Not every IMC can scale up to 8000-8533 which seems to be the max daily D5 tune at the moment (sugi0lover). I would've said not all A-die can either, but it seems as though many Z790 Apex owners are doing 8000+ with my bargain bin 6400 Z5 A-die kit.


----------



## bscool

thebski said:


> Help me out, what did they change?
> 
> Mine would definitely be from the first batch of production.
> 
> Kind of stupid to have a $700 motherboard that's main selling point is memory OC when it has defective memory OC.


Youi should at least test it before assuming it is bad. Test each slot 1 at a time.

You will know if you have a bad/weak MB easily. If both slots are within about 200 to 400mhz of each other than it is OK. If chA can only do say 6400 and chB can do 7600 you know you have an issue.

I use y cruncher and Karhu/tm5 to test. chA or slot 1 will be the weak one.

Really everyone should do this if they want to mem OC on every MB with both mem dims/slots to find how close they are but so many people don't. They just guess why they cant get mem oc stable when it could be a bad/weak dim slot or memory stick but they spend months guessing trying different timings and voltages etc..


----------



## affxct

Z690 Apex meta might be to just daily 1x32GB Hynix M/A at the max data rate in the ChB slot.


----------



## thebski

bscool said:


> Youi should at least test it before assuming it is bad. Test each slot 1 at a time.
> 
> You will know if you have a bad/weak MB easily. If both slots are within about 200 to 400mhz of each other than it is OK. If chA can only do say 6400 and chB can do 7600 you know you have an issue.
> 
> I use y cruncher and Karhu/tm5 to test. chA or slot 1 will be the weak one.
> 
> Really everyone should do this if they want to mem OC on every MB with both mem dims/slots to find how close they are but so many people don't. They just guess why they cant get mem oc stable when it could be a bad/weak dim slot or memory stick but they spend months guessing trying different timings and voltages etc..


I will for sure. Since the Z790 Apex isn't in stock atm I don't have much else to do 🤣.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

thebski said:


> I will for sure. Since the Z790 Apex isn't in stock atm I don't have much else to do 🤣.



I had my water block sideways and my second channel for the memory weren't working at first lol.

Turned it right and added the mounting bracket carefully and all is good again. I'm happy with the extreme so far honestly.

Do I have a MC SP in the extreme BIOS? I'm on 0703.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I had my water block sideways and my second channel for the memory weren't working at first lol.
> 
> Turned it right and added the mounting bracket carefully and all is good again. I'm happy with the extreme so far honestly.
> 
> Do I have a MC SP in the extreme BIOS? I'm on 0703.


memory overclock coming ok compared to z690 dark?


----------



## neteng101

Nizzen said:


> Use Karhu ramtest for fast errorchecking and playing Battlefield 2042. This game hates unstable Ram and cpu OC


Who would have figured - playing BF2042 is actually a better use of time and error checker too. I thought I got memory right only to have it behave like a snowflake in BF2042.


----------



## delirious1

fak said:


> went ahead and ordered the 7800 gskill kit, when it arrives I'll pop it in and if it works @ xmp I'll return the 7200 although I'm pretty sure I could have tightened the timings on the 7200 sticks a bit and maybe a slight bump in voltage and it would run no issues at c36 7800, ran into some testmem and memtest errors both really late in the tests when just setting xmp and then changing freq to 7800 and cl to 36, hoping for the best on this z790-e board wish me luck guys haha


hows the 7800 kit coming along?


----------



## matique

Took awhile but here's my adie tune. Nothing too crazy, I was aiming for 100% stability; tested to 30 000% coverage in Karhu. Not the fastest tune, but pretty happy with it. Passes YC N32/N64/VST without issues as well.

13900KF (6ghz ST, 5.8ghz MT / 4.5ghz ecore / 5.1ghz ring) | MSI Z790i Edge | Hynix OEM Adie greenstick w/ Icemancooler ram block.
*VDD 1.62v 
VDDQ 1.6v 
CPU SA 1.25v
TX VDDQ 1.45v
VDD2 1.45v *

Min/max temps in hwinfo is bugged out, but essentially the block allows ram to be within 3K delta of coolant. My coolant here is around 28-29c. Perhaps next time i'll try for a 8200 tune, might need to loosen trcd and trp a little then.


----------



## thebski

bscool said:


> Youi should at least test it before assuming it is bad. Test each slot 1 at a time.
> 
> You will know if you have a bad/weak MB easily. If both slots are within about 200 to 400mhz of each other than it is OK. If chA can only do say 6400 and chB can do 7600 you know you have an issue.
> 
> I use y cruncher and Karhu/tm5 to test. chA or slot 1 will be the weak one.
> 
> Really everyone should do this if they want to mem OC on every MB with both mem dims/slots to find how close they are but so many people don't. They just guess why they cant get mem oc stable when it could be a bad/weak dim slot or memory stick but they spend months guessing trying different timings and voltages etc..


So I've had a chance to mess around with the G Skill 7800 kit. Only using one stick, I just set some quick settings to compare slots. My stability test is simply getting into Windows and being functional. I used these settings and increased frequency until that was no longer the case.

Enabled XMP II for timings and voltages
VDD 1.45
VDDQ 1.45
SA 0.95
MC 1.35

Dimm Slot A Max 7000
Dimm Slot B Max 7800

Seems like a pretty big gap to me. What is normal variation across Dimm slots?


----------



## satinghostrider

thebski said:


> So I've had a chance to mess around with the G Skill 7800 kit. Only using one stick, I just set some quick settings to compare slots. My stability test is simply getting into Windows and being functional. I used these settings and increased frequency until that was no longer the case.
> 
> Enabled XMP II for timings and voltages
> VDD 1.45
> VDDQ 1.45
> SA 0.95
> MC 1.35
> 
> Dimm Slot A Max 7000
> Dimm Slot B Max 7800
> 
> Seems like a pretty big gap to me. What is normal variation across Dimm slots?


What board are you using?


----------



## strat6

Hi All,

First time getting into overclocking DDR5 ram, been lurking for a few weeks and looking at guides, but I'm starting to lose my mind so I thought I'd ask for some help!

I've got Hynix M-die (XPG Lancer 6000 CL40-40-40). ASROCK Z790 PRO RS. 13600kf stock.

Currently trying to run 6800 34-42-42-52

VDD - 1.45 (1.35)
VDDQ - 1.385 (1.35)
CPU SA - 0.92 (0.89)
CPU TX VDDQ 1.35 (1.35)
CPU VDD2 1.376 (1.35)

Temps under load max at 41.8c on one stick and 40.8 on the other (I have a fan cooling them)

I feel like I'm not asking too much of my ram. Firestrike and Timespy seem fine, AIDA64 stress test for 20 minutes no issues.

My issue is I am running 6 instances of HCI Memtest 3000mb each (I have the trial version), and around 400% coverage (an hour or so in) on ALL 6 instances one of the instances always finds 1 error. It failed at VDD/Q both at 1.45 and SA auto/0.89. So I upped my SA/VDD2 and dropped my VDDQ from another post that recommended to run it lower but with still that one error that pops up. I'm not sure how to stamp this error out so I can run memtest HCL without errors.

I tried running my VDDQ TX at 1.1 but wouldn't even boot into bios.

I've attached a picture of my hwinfo for further info.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## thebski

satinghostrider said:


> What board are you using?


A launch Z690 Apex. Trying to decide if it's one of the messed up early production boards or a "good" one.


----------



## chibi

bscool said:


> Youi should at least test it before assuming it is bad. Test each slot 1 at a time.
> 
> You will know if you have a bad/weak MB easily. If both slots are within about 200 to 400mhz of each other than it is OK. If chA can only do say 6400 and chB can do 7600 you know you have an issue.
> 
> I use y cruncher and Karhu/tm5 to test. chA or slot 1 will be the weak one.
> 
> Really everyone should do this if they want to mem OC on every MB with both mem dims/slots to find how close they are but so many people don't. They just guess why they cant get mem oc stable when it could be a bad/weak dim slot or memory stick but they spend months guessing trying different timings and voltages etc..


For z790 Apex with 13900k & 7200 A die, what's the base line you would set for testing? Something like below?

SA 1.25
VDD/Q/TX 1.5
MC 1.5
8200 2t 40-50-50-80


----------



## asdkj1740

share
z790 areo g, 7800mhz


https://www.ixigua.com/7172376434042733087?logTag=7dc44002e4d82ba45daa


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

MrTOOSHORT said:


> memory overclock coming ok compared to z690 dark?



I'm at 7600 tight timings. Anything over and I start getting errors in tm5. I booted these timings by accident right into windows at 8000 and was able to run aida64. I didn't save a screen shot I should have. I didn't even know I did it at first lol. I'll keep playing around but this is a lot better than the dark was acting so. I just don't think I know what to change to get the errors to go away. I noticed that y-cruncher starts failing anything over 7600. That's without me changing any voltages etc. yet though. This is all auto so far. 

My CPU seems to be pretty mean of a chip. I stopped pushing my ring at 5300. I might be able to go higher honestly. I wanted to get a good solid profile saved then play more.


----------



## xh43k

Hey everyone..
I've went through I think last 50 pages but I still can't figure out whether the memory of 7000+ is a CPU or Motherboard limitation.

I currently have this kit

*F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK*
Trident Z5 RGB
DDR5-7200 CL34-45-45-115 1.40V
32GB (2x16GB)

but I can't get it 100% stable.
I tested following motherboards so far:
ASUS PRIME Z790-P
ASUS PRIME Z790-A

And on neither of those I cant get it 100% stable, most of the time it runs at 7200 MHz XMP Tweaked profile fine, but then one day I boot up and notice crashes and OCCT memory errors, then I shut down, start again and problems are gone..

So I am still able to return the MB I currently use (Z790-A) and buy a new one.. but I don't want to spend twice as much for a new MB.

So I wonder, whether ANY of these will be better ? Based on your experience or previous posts ?
*GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX* (274,90 €)
*GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS ELITE AX* (312,90 €)
*MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI* (390,90 €)

Other MB's that are in stock are 463 euro and more which is over my budget (I don't want to spend as much on LGA1700 which basically is EOL already)


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> I've went through I think last 50 pages but I still can't figure out whether the memory of 7000+ is a CPU or Motherboard limitation.
> I currently have this kit
> DDR5-7200 CL34-45-45-115 1.40V
> 32GB (2x16GB)
> but I can't get it 100% stable.
> I tested following motherboards so far:
> ASUS PRIME Z790-P
> ASUS PRIME Z790-A


Try IVR TX 1.15 to 1.20v with 10mv step
VDD2 1.32-1.35v


----------



## msmeenge

Can anyone tell me if my Z690 AORUS MASTER motherboard will support for example G.Skill TridentZ5 7800MHz 32GB RAM at XMP?
I can't find anywhere wether it will support speeds like this on my Z690 board! Im willing to upgrade my Dominator 5600MHz C36 DIMM's 

Thanks in advance


----------



## asdkj1740

msmeenge said:


> Can anyone tell me if my Z690 AORUS MASTER motherboard will support for example G.Skill TridentZ5 7800MHz 32GB RAM at XMP?
> I can't find anywhere wether it will support speeds like this on my Z690 board! Im willing to upgrade my Dominator 5600MHz C36 DIMM's
> 
> Thanks in advance


no, dont do that.


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> Try IVR TX 1.15 to 1.20v with 10mv step
> VDD2 1.32-1.35v


How do I verify the current IVR voltages while booted ?
I can't however find VDD2 in bios


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> How do I verify the current IVR voltages while booted ?
> I can't however find VDD2 in bios


you cant
VDD2 on asus renamed to IMC voltage


----------



## rulik006

msmeenge said:


> Can anyone tell me if my Z690 AORUS MASTER motherboard will support for example G.Skill TridentZ5 7800MHz 32GB RAM at XMP?
> I can't find anywhere wether it will support speeds like this on my Z690 board! Im willing to upgrade my Dominator 5600MHz C36 DIMM's
> 
> Thanks in advance


First of all G.skill 7800 is a dumb waste of money, buy instead 6400 or 6600, same thing
Z690 master can do 7600 with 13gen probably
Quick test: booted to 7600 with 12600k and 7466 can do some tests.
First time i can praise Gigabyte, really good board with lastest bios(proper voltage controll of vdd2/tx)


Spoiler


----------



## Wilco183

msmeenge said:


> Can anyone tell me if my Z690 AORUS MASTER motherboard will support for example G.Skill TridentZ5 7800MHz 32GB RAM at XMP?
> I can't find anywhere wether it will support speeds like this on my Z690 board! Im willing to upgrade my Dominator 5600MHz C36 DIMM's
> 
> Thanks in advance


It's been said...don't. Your board's memory compatibility is in its web support pages. Listed max is 6400. Use what you have or get something in that range would be best.


----------



## thebski

rulik006 said:


> First of all G.skill 7800 is a dumb waste of money, buy instead 6400 or 6600, same thing
> Z690 master can do 7600 with 13gen probably
> Quick test: booted to 7600 with 12600k and 7466 can do some tests.
> First time i can praise Gigabyte, really good board with lastest bios(proper voltage controll of vdd2/tx)
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Are the modules on the 78 kits really no better than the 64/66 kits? I assumed the 78 kits would have better binned Dimms, but maybe not. I just picked up the 78 kit yesterday at Micro Center, but I'm seriously considering returning them. When I got them home I noticed they were open box, which makes me pretty uncomfortable. They work, but it just makes you wonder if someone didn't buy several kits, bin the Dimms, and return the worst ones.

It's not going to matter for me anyways until I can get my hands on a 790 Apex.


----------



## rulik006

thebski said:


> Are the modules on the 78 kits really no better than the 64/66 kits? I assumed the 78 kits would have better binned Dimms, but maybe not. I just picked up the 78 kit yesterday at Micro Center, but I'm seriously considering returning them. When I got them home I noticed they were open box, which makes me pretty uncomfortable. They work, but it just makes you wonder if someone didn't buy several kits, bin the Dimms, and return the worst ones.
> 
> It's not going to matter for me anyways until I can get my hands on a 790 Apex.


Maybe better, but difference is so small than not worth extra 200$. Hynix ic's very consistent
People here with random green Hynix A-die (not pre-selected) getting same oc as top G.skill


----------



## thebski

rulik006 said:


> Maybe better, but difference is so small than not worth extra 200$. Hynix ic's very consistent
> People here with random green Hynix A-die (not pre-selected) getting same oc as top G.skill


I gotcha. Yea it would be a much better use of money on DDR5 it sounds like to buy the cheaper kits and put water blocks on them than the more expensive kits. Like I said I was probably going to return them anyways since I'm not a big fan of buying something open box for new price. We'll see what's out there for memory when more Apex's are in stock.

Edit: I guess that leads to the next question. Is there a concensus "best" water cooled setup for 2 Dimm DDR5 to fit an apex (no gaps)? Anyone running the bitspower blocks?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

MrTOOSHORT said:


> memory overclock coming ok compared to z690 dark?





FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I'm at 7600 tight timings. Anything over and I start getting errors in tm5. I booted these timings by accident right into windows at 8000 and was able to run aida64. I didn't save a screen shot I should have. I didn't even know I did it at first lol. I'll keep playing around but this is a lot better than the dark was acting so. I just don't think I know what to change to get the errors to go away. I noticed that y-cruncher starts failing anything over 7600. That's without me changing any voltages etc. yet though. This is all auto so far.
> 
> My CPU seems to be pretty mean of a chip. I stopped pushing my ring at 5300. I might be able to go higher honestly. I wanted to get a good solid profile saved then play more.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2591844


I went ahead and did a stability test real quick on the memory and had to drop my memory vddq and was able to pass tm5 anta extreme to show you stability of my current setup. I was also using a memory profile and it had my cpu vddq set to 1.4 and it caused a crash so I set it back to auto and it sets itself to 1.45 and stability came back there too. I really do think this is a better motherboard honestly. I'll keep pushing things since this was so easy to obtain.


----------



## xpulse

msmeenge said:


> Can anyone tell me if my Z690 AORUS MASTER motherboard will support for example G.Skill TridentZ5 7800MHz 32GB RAM at XMP?
> I can't find anywhere wether it will support speeds like this on my Z690 board! Im willing to upgrade my Dominator 5600MHz C36 DIMM's
> 
> Thanks in advance


I wasn’t able to get 7800 speed stable on this mb. I’m running this kit as 7400 on this mb.


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> you cant
> VDD2 on asus renemed to IMC voltage


So would it be better to go with other MB mentioned above or not really ?
I don't have time to tinker around with voltages especially when I can't verify which voltage is actually being used when its 'stable'
As for the IMC Voltage, based what I found online seems over 1.2V isn't good ? You're suggesting 1.32+ ?


----------



## CptSpig

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I'm at 7600 tight timings. Anything over and I start getting errors in tm5.


Errors


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

CptSpig said:


> Errors


Thank you sir. I managed to get it stable at 7600 with pretty good timings. I'll have to go back at 7800. Now I need to sell my 690 apex and my dark. I have a spare 12900k I need to sell too. Need to recoup this money for the extreme lol.


----------



## acoustic

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Thank you sir. I managed to get it stable at 7600 with pretty good timings. I'll have to go back at 7800. Now I need to sell my 690 apex and my dark. I have a spare 12900k I need to sell too. Need to recoup this money for the extreme lol.


PM incoming


----------



## bscool

thebski said:


> So I've had a chance to mess around with the G Skill 7800 kit. Only using one stick, I just set some quick settings to compare slots. My stability test is simply getting into Windows and being functional. I used these settings and increased frequency until that was no longer the case.
> 
> Enabled XMP II for timings and voltages
> VDD 1.45
> VDDQ 1.45
> SA 0.95
> MC 1.35
> 
> Dimm Slot A Max 7000
> Dimm Slot B Max 7800
> 
> Seems like a pretty big gap to me. What is normal variation across Dimm slots?


That's a big difference. Should be within 2-400mhz. I used cruncher/Karhu to test stability but if your boot difference is that big pretty much bad/weak dim slot would be my conclusion.


----------



## acoustic

thebski said:


> So I've had a chance to mess around with the G Skill 7800 kit. Only using one stick, I just set some quick settings to compare slots. My stability test is simply getting into Windows and being functional. I used these settings and increased frequency until that was no longer the case.
> 
> Enabled XMP II for timings and voltages
> VDD 1.45
> VDDQ 1.45
> SA 0.95
> MC 1.35
> 
> Dimm Slot A Max 7000
> Dimm Slot B Max 7800
> 
> Seems like a pretty big gap to me. What is normal variation across Dimm slots?


Unfortunately not normal. 800Mhz gap between slots is a lot, but I don't think ASUS would be interested in replacing your board as 7000 is "high."


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> For z790 Apex with 13900k & 7200 A die, what's the base line you would set for testing? Something like below?
> 
> SA 1.25
> VDD/Q/TX 1.5
> MC 1.5
> 8200 2t 40-50-50-80


I set something I would daily for timings and voltages but probably doesn't matter too much. Just want to see if there is a big difference between memory slots or memory sticks.


----------



## thebski

bscool said:


> That's a big difference. Should be within 2-400mhz. I used cruncher/Karhu to test stability but if your boot difference is that big pretty much bad/weak dim slot would be my conclusion.


Yea I'm sure it's a bad Dimm slot. I just figure as long as your stability method is the same, the relative comparison should be valid. I'm sure the 7000 or 7800 figure is far from stable in any kind of load. I was just looking for a quick comparison. I'll pick up a 790 Apex when they're available.



acoustic said:


> Unfortunately not normal. 800Mhz gap between slots is a lot, but I don't think ASUS would be interested in replacing your board as 7000 is "high."


7000 is far from any kind of stability, I'm sure. I was just seeing what I could get into Windows with. That said, I have zero confidence in motherboard RMAs anyways. I've been buying high end Asus boards (Formula's in the beginning, then Apex when they came out) since 2011, and can honestly say this is the first problem I've had with one. I've just read too many horror stories of people sending in boards and getting them back with damaged sockets and refused RMAs. I'd just get back a refurb board anyways. I will probably just try to sell the board and be open about the fact that it won't push the highest memory OC's. For anyone not looking to push the envelope on memory, it's a fine board.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Thank you sir. I managed to get it stable at 7600 with pretty good timings. I'll have to go back at 7800. Now I need to sell my 690 apex and my dark. I have a spare 12900k I need to sell too. Need to recoup this money for the extreme lol.


Looking good. The Extreme z790 is in stock here locally. Looks like a nice motherboard. The price is crazy. If people can only get 7600-7800 for the rams on it, doesn't seem worth it to me, especially that I'm already at 7200 with my M-dies with the Dark. Deciding to send the 7600 Doms back or not. If I can get an Apex soon, I think I'll keep them for sure and try for 8200MHz 24/7.


----------



## bscool

xh43k said:


> Hey everyone..
> I've went through I think last 50 pages but I still can't figure out whether the memory of 7000+ is a CPU or Motherboard limitation.
> 
> I currently have this kit
> 
> *F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK*
> Trident Z5 RGB
> DDR5-7200 CL34-45-45-115 1.40V
> 32GB (2x16GB)
> 
> but I can't get it 100% stable.
> I tested following motherboards so far:
> ASUS PRIME Z790-P
> ASUS PRIME Z790-A
> 
> And on neither of those I cant get it 100% stable, most of the time it runs at 7200 MHz XMP Tweaked profile fine, but then one day I boot up and notice crashes and OCCT memory errors, then I shut down, start again and problems are gone..
> 
> So I am still able to return the MB I currently use (Z790-A) and buy a new one.. but I don't want to spend twice as much for a new MB.
> 
> So I wonder, whether ANY of these will be better ? Based on your experience or previous posts ?
> *GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX* (274,90 €)
> *GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS ELITE AX* (312,90 €)
> *MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI* (390,90 €)
> 
> Other MB's that are in stock are 463 euro and more which is over my budget (I don't want to spend as much on LGA1700 which basically is EOL already)


Have you tested each memory stick in each slot(2 and 4 or a2 and b2)? What if you have a weak stick you can keep exchanging MB and it wont matter. Or if it the IMC.

Example if both stick are stable in B2 but not in ch A2 you know it is the MB and A2 or IMC on chA.

But if you test each memory stick and 1 stick is bad/weak you know where to go next. It could be some voltage or timing but testing each stick and slot is a basic trouble shooting technique.


----------



## xh43k

bscool said:


> Have you tested each memory stick in each slot(2 and 4 or a2 and b2)? What if you have a weak stick you can keep exchanging MB and it wont matter. Or if it the IMC.
> 
> Example if both stick are stable in B2 but not in ch A2 you know it is the MB and A2 or IMC on chA.
> 
> But if you test each memory stick and 1 stick is bad/weak you know where to go next. It could be some voltage or timing but testing each stick and slot is a basic trouble shooting technique.


I actually also replaced the memory kit, forgot to mention that, I returned the original kit purchased with the first board and got new board and a kit, so I guess the only thing remaining is the CPU


----------



## bscool

I still think it is the MB or memory over the IMC cant run 7200 XMP.

Looking at gskill ram config only show 6800 for those Asus z790 P and A MBs RAM Configurator - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

MSI z790 Tomahawk and Gigabyte is on there for 7200 RAM Configurator - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.,

But any of them might need manually tuning of timings or voltages to be stable at 7200.


----------



## xh43k

bscool said:


> I still think it is the MB or memory over the IMC cant run 7200 XMP.
> 
> Looking at gskill ram config only show 6800 for those Asus z790 P and A MBs RAM Configurator - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> MSI z790 Tomahawk and Gigabyte is on there for 7200 RAM Configurator - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.,
> 
> But any of them might need manually tuning of timings or voltages to be stable at 7200.


Well... whom to believe, both boards have this kit in QVL and both have "XMP Tweaked" Profile available, thus it was tweaked by Asus after verification.
Not sure if to pull the trigger on the Tomahawk, it would be ~80 eur more, which is around 25% more than current board.

Edit: The Tomahawk has this at its specs page:


----------



## Augustas

What would be the upper limit of M die? Can get some pretty cheap rn and was wondering if A die was worth at least £150 more?


----------



## bscool

Augustas said:


> What would be the upper limit of M die? Can get some pretty cheap rn and was wondering if A die was worth at least £150 more?


Depends. I think for most 7000 to 7200 but I have seen some run 7600 memtest stable. But that is rare. I dont know if they posted them on here I saw them on discord.


----------



## acoustic

bscool said:


> Depends. I think for most 7000 to 7200 but I have seen some run 7600 memtest stable. But that is rare. I dont know if they posted them on here I saw them on discord.


seems some with 2022 Z690 APEX, Z790 APEX, and Z690/790 KINGPIN have had success with a good Raptor Lake IMC. I believe M-Die just requires a stronger IMC than A-Die due to the heightened voltages M-Die needs.


----------



## Augustas

bscool said:


> Depends. I think for most 7000 to 7200 but I have seen some run 7600 memtest stable. But that is rare. I dont know if they posted them on here I saw them on discord.


What would the difference in minimum and average FPS do you think?


----------



## bscool

Augustas said:


> What would the difference in minimum and average FPS do you think?


What do you mean between A die and M die? From testing I saw on discord it took around 400 to 600 more mhz on A die to equal or beat m die. 

But to me it is irrelevant so close it doesnt matter. Just like debate between ddr4 vs ddr5 who cares. Play a game and have fun. OC seems to =OCD plus other mental disorders


----------



## Augustas

bscool said:


> What do you mean between A die and M die? From testing I saw on discord it took around 400 to 600 more mhz on A die to equal or beat m die.
> 
> But to me it is irrelevant so close it doesnt matter. Just like debate between ddr4 vs ddr5 who cares. Play a game and have fun. OC seems to =OCD plus other mental disorders





bscool said:


> What do you mean between A die and M die? From testing I saw on discord it took around 400 to 600 more mhz on A die to equal or beat m die.
> 
> But to me it is irrelevant so close it doesnt matter. Just like debate between ddr4 vs ddr5 who cares. Play a game and have fun. OC seems to =OCD plus other mental disorders


I’m on DDR4 rn, but my IMC is very bad and can’t do above 3900. Am contemplating moving to DDR5. It does actually help with my main game.


----------



## bscool

acoustic said:


> seems some with 2022 Z690 APEX, Z790 APEX, and Z690/790 KINGPIN have had success with a good Raptor Lake IMC. I believe M-Die just requires a stronger IMC than A-Die due to the heightened voltages M-Die needs.


Yeah the ones I saw running 7600 were 13th gen CPUs.


----------



## QXE

Quick photodump of some DDR5 stuff. DDR5-8400 stable/DDR5-8400 super tight GB3/DDR5-8800 boot.


----------



## thebski

QXE said:


> View attachment 2591917
> 
> View attachment 2591915
> 
> View attachment 2591916
> 
> Quick photodump of some DDR5 stuff. DDR5-8400 stable/DDR5-8400 super tight GB3/DDR5-8800 boot.


 Nicely done. What kit and voltages are you running?


----------



## P2IVATEPA2TS

I'm having a lot of fun with the i9 13900k, gskill 7600 and maximus extreme z790. I'm going to be so disappointed when this fun ends and I can actually play some games. actually after updating IME and latest bios it's getting better. I passed memtest at 7000 but still having issues. The lightning storm were getting here just passed over so plugging everything back up and try-try-trying again. I'm about to send this g skill 7600 back and say F it.


----------



## tibcsi0407

P2IVATEPA2TS said:


> I'm having a lot of fun with the i9 13900k, gskill 7600 and maximus extreme z790. I'm going to be so disappointed when this fun ends and I can actually play some games. actually after updating IME and latest bios it's getting better. I passed memtest at 7000 but still having issues. The lightning storm were getting here just passed over so plugging everything back up and try-try-trying again. I'm about to send this g skill 7600 back and say F it.


Show us Hwinfo and timings please.
For beginning load xmp profile and set TX and ImC vdd manually to 1.4V. Dram VDD/VDDQ to 1.45V


----------



## P2IVATEPA2TS

tibcsi0407 said:


> Show us Hwinfo and timings please.
> For beginning load xmp profile and set TX and ImC vdd manually to 1.4V. Dram VDD/VDDQ to 1.45V


----------



## tibcsi0407

P2IVATEPA2TS said:


> View attachment 2591929


Thank you!
Could you please post the sensors screen with Asrock Timing configurator?

Like this:








I believe that 1.4V won't be enough for you on dimms.

You should try to set it in BIOS to DRAM VDD\VDDQ 1.45V (you need to turn on the high voltage mode for RAM)


----------



## QXE

thebski said:


> Nicely done. What kit and voltages are you running?


Oloy MPower. I don’t remember exact voltages.


----------



## asdkj1740

bscool said:


> Yeah the ones I saw running 7600 were 13th gen CPUs.


7800 m die on apex...














严重低估的第一代D5 海力士MDIE，现在都可以7800 34-46 - 电脑讨论(新) - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


严重低估的第一代D5 海力士MDIE，现在都可以7800 34-46,第一代的D5海力士真的是被十二代的IMC耽误了，我把手上还剩的五对海盗船DDR5 6200翻出来，全部在十三代酷睿+Z790 APEX上面过了一遍，以前表现最烂的一对都可以跑7400 3 ...,电脑讨论(新),讨论区-技术与经验的讨论 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com


----------



## xh43k

xh43k said:


> Well... whom to believe, both boards have this kit in QVL and both have "XMP Tweaked" Profile available, thus it was tweaked by Asus after verification.
> Not sure if to pull the trigger on the Tomahawk, it would be ~80 eur more, which is around 25% more than current board.
> 
> Edit: The Tomahawk has this at its specs page:
> 
> View attachment 2591936


Small update: This is fcking crazy... I pass 6 cycles of TM5 Extreme over night, start a game in the morning, it crashes with Exception code: 0xc0000005 which is memory violation, several times in a row.
So I am at a loss here.. I don't really think Tomahawk would make any difference for memory OC, it has more bells and whistles for the price compared to prime z790-a but I would say that would be it.. looking at their memory specs.

Does everyone wanting to use 7200MHz XMP Profile need to buy 1500 eur motherboard ?


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Small update: This is fcking crazy... I pass 6 cycles of TM5 Extreme over night, start a game in the morning, it crashes with Exception code: 0xc0000005 which is memory violation, several times in a row.
> So I am at a loss here.. I don't really think Tomahawk would make any difference for memory OC, it has more bells and whistles for the price compared to prime z790-a but I would say that would be it.. looking at their memory specs.
> 
> Does everyone wanting to use 7200MHz XMP Profile need to buy 1500 eur motherboard ?


Is it passing Tm5 even after reboot?


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> Is it passing Tm5 even after reboot?


I started TM5 extreme before going to sleep, it went through 6 cycles without error, PC was NOT rebooted, I started a game in the morning, it kept crashing with memory violation errors... what else to say ?
I shut it down, booted back up started tm5 again, tm5 showing no errors, but game still crashing with the same memory violation error (0xc0000005).
It's not stable at all. What a joke.

EDIT: Nevermind.. discovered this was affecting the related game that was crashing:
OpenSSL* SHA Crash Bug Requires Application Update (intel.com)


But after these reboots/shutdowns even TM5 threw one error so yeah memory still not stable.
Seems something wrong with memory learning or something.. do you think they will fix this with a bios update ? Or should I just buy a different mobo.. and if, then which one.. I seriously dont want to pay 400+ for a MB, I only have a single m.2 drive and I use USB hub with kvm switch so not even number of USB ports is important for me, I just want my RAM stable.. thats why I bought 7200 MHz kit, I dont want to tinker with OC just plug and play jesus.. never had these issues previously.

The 'cheapest' z790 I see right now in stock even advertises 7600 MHz out of the box and it's the GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX, no idea how is the board itself. I don't OC other than enable some thermal boost increase and XMP profile and some undervolting, I gather that basically any board should handle that.. what I look for is making 7200 stable.


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> I started TM5 extreme before going to sleep, it went through 6 cycles without error, PC was NOT rebooted, I started a game in the morning, it kept crashing with memory violation errors... what else to say ?
> I shut it down, booted back up started tm5 again, tm5 showing no errors, but game still crashing with the same memory violation error (0xc0000005).
> It's not stable at all. What a joke.
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind.. discovered this was affecting the related game that was crashing:
> OpenSSL* SHA Crash Bug Requires Application Update (intel.com)
> 
> 
> But after these reboots/shutdowns even TM5 threw one error so yeah memory still not stable.
> Seems something wrong with memory learning or something.. do you think they will fix this with a bios update ? Or should I just buy a different mobo.. and if, then which one.. I seriously dont want to pay 400+ for a MB, I only have a single m.2 drive and I use USB hub with kvm switch so not even number of USB ports is important for me, I just want my RAM stable.. thats why I bought 7200 MHz kit, I dont want to tinker with OC just plug and play jesus.. never had these issues previously.
> 
> The 'cheapest' z790 I see right now in stock even advertises 7600 MHz out of the box and it's the GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX, no idea how is the board itself. I don't OC other than enable some thermal boost increase and XMP profile and some undervolting, I gather that basically any board should handle that.. what I look for is making 7200 stable.


TM5 is not enough to check the stability. It's just a pretest. I always suggest to run one hour AIDA stability test after successful TM5 test. I need almost everytime to raise SA, or TX to pass AIDA too. CPU OC could also break RAM stability, so they need to be tested together.
Just like this:


----------



## Nono31

matique said:


> Took awhile but here's my adie tune. Nothing too crazy, I was aiming for 100% stability; tested to 30 000% coverage in Karhu. Not the fastest tune, but pretty happy with it. Passes YC N32/N64/VST without issues as well.
> 
> 13900KF (6ghz ST, 5.8ghz MT / 4.5ghz ecore / 5.1ghz ring) | MSI Z790i Edge | Hynix OEM Adie greenstick w/ Icemancooler ram block.
> *VDD 1.62v
> VDDQ 1.6v
> CPU SA 1.25v
> TX VDDQ 1.45v
> VDD2 1.45v *
> 
> Min/max temps in hwinfo is bugged out, but essentially the block allows ram to be within 3K delta of coolant. My coolant here is around 28-29c. Perhaps next time i'll try for a 8200 tune, might need to loosen trcd and trp a little then.


Yes!


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> TM5 is not enough to check the stability


Well.. I am not an expert of course but many people argue that it's the ultimate memory test.. but I only googled it so.
Anyway, it seems one shutdown/startup the 7200 MHz is rock solid in TM5 but some shutdown/startup it throws errors

So I guess this has something to do with memory learning on Asus boards.

I am buying *GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX* and *MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI*, to test them out, while returning my current ASUS PRIME Z790-A WIFI.
I can only hope to improve the situation.
I don't want to return the memory kit.. since it went up by 80 euro since I bought it, slower speed kits are now even more expensive than what I paid for this 7200 MHz kit.. crazy times.


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Well.. I am not an expert of course but many people argue that it's the ultimate memory test.. but I only googled it so.
> Anyway, it seems one shutdown/startup the 7200 MHz is rock solid in TM5 but some shutdown/startup it throws errors
> 
> So I guess this has something to do with memory learning on Asus boards.
> 
> I am buying *GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX* and *MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI*, to test them out, while returning my current ASUS PRIME Z790-A WIFI.
> I can only hope to improve the situation.
> I don't want to return the memory kit.. since it went up by 80 euro since I bought it, slower speed kits are now even more expensive than what I paid for this 7200 MHz kit.. crazy times.


I had the same at 7800 speeds on my Z790 Hero. Perfectly stable and after reboot it throwed errors in a row.. I am at 7600 right now, but I believe finetuning of ODT would help me with 7800 even with 8000.


----------



## QXE

WIP // 8533 CL34
Just for Sulalin I’m using Oloy MPower with Z790 apex.


----------



## Betroz

Using G.Skill RAM Configurator, the fastest DDR5 recommened for Asus Z790 4-dimm boards like the Strix-E and Hero is 7200. For Apex it is 8000. That is quite the difference! Of course people can achieve higher than this by manually tuning, but I guess what this G.Skill RAM Configurator recommends are XMP that should work by just enabling it in BIOS right?

If I am to buy 13700K/13900K setup soon (after CES), I have two RAM kits in consideration :
G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K and F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK 

There is a big price difference though, so not sure if the 7200 kit is worth it if the 6400 kit can OC to 7200 anyways...

A "cheap" setup : 13700KF, Strix-E board and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K
The price step up to 13900K, Z790 Apex and 7200++ kit is HUGE!


----------



## xh43k

Betroz said:


> Using G.Skill RAM Configurator, the fastest DDR5 recommened for Asus Z790 4-dimm boards like the Strix-E and Hero is 7200. For Apex it is 8000. That is quite the difference! Of course people can achieve higher than this by manually tuning, but I guess what this G.Skill RAM Configurator recommends are XMP that should work by just enabling it in BIOS right?
> 
> If I am to buy 13700K/13900K setup soon (after CES), I have two RAM kits in consideration :
> G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K and F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> There is a big price difference though, so not sure if the 7200 kit is worth it if the 6400 kit can OC to 7200 anyways...
> 
> A "cheap" setup : 13700KF, Strix-E board and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K
> The price step up to 13900K, Z790 Apex and 7200++ kit is HUGE!


According to their calculator, only the expensive ASUS boards are 'compatible', and based on my testing so far it seems true.. ASUS is crap for DDR5 unless you pay 500+

But MSI and Gigabyte have also 'cheap' z790 boards in support list of g.skill so I will see on Thursday if it's true when I test the two MBs I ordered.. if they would work fine out of the box, then it's confirmed that ASUS just dropped ball on z790


----------



## asdkj1740

Betroz said:


> Using G.Skill RAM Configurator, the fastest DDR5 recommened for Asus Z790 4-dimm boards like the Strix-E and Hero is 7200. For Apex it is 8000. That is quite the difference! Of course people can achieve higher than this by manually tuning, but I guess what this G.Skill RAM Configurator recommends are XMP that should work by just enabling it in BIOS right?
> 
> If I am to buy 13700K/13900K setup soon (after CES), I have two RAM kits in consideration :
> G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K and F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK
> 
> There is a big price difference though, so not sure if the 7200 kit is worth it if the 6400 kit can OC to 7200 anyways...
> 
> A "cheap" setup : 13700KF, Strix-E board and F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5K
> The price step up to 13900K, Z790 Apex and 7200++ kit is HUGE!


these types of qvl mean nothing actually...
but if you would like to have qvl support you can check out gigabyte 6-layer z790 mobos, their qvl (by gigabyte) all got up to 7600mhz from gskill. 

"Of course people can achieve higher than this by manually tuning"
wrong, there are lots of reports by end users saying they cant even make xmp rated frequency stable.
there are also cases about gksill 7600 working flawlessly on m15h, so...it is not about the right bios enabling it right...that's also why qvl means nothing.
6400 is a good start and gskill 6400 has been using a die lately.


----------



## Betroz

xh43k said:


> ASUS is crap for DDR5 unless you pay 500+


Then again their BIOS support is better than Gigabutt and Assrock. MSI could be an option.


----------



## xh43k

Betroz said:


> Then again their BIOS support is better than Gigabutt and Assrock. MSI could be an option.


Idk I tried searching but didn't find a lot of people complaining of z790 Gigabyte bios ? Maybe because not many people buy Gigabyte ? No idea.. we'll see.
I mean.. if it can run 13700k well and it gets my 7200 kit stable, I dont give a crap about bios I don't live in BIOS.

btw, these are current timings, interesting to see what will MSI/Gigabyte boards set up


----------



## RogueSix

xh43k said:


> Well.. I am not an expert of course but many people argue that it's the ultimate memory test.. but I only googled it so.
> Anyway, it seems one shutdown/startup the 7200 MHz is rock solid in TM5 but some shutdown/startup it throws errors
> 
> So I guess this has something to do with memory learning on Asus boards.


Well, the "ultimate" stability test (imo) is still the good old Prime 95. Most people do not like it because they do not like the results  . Prime stability, however, is still the gold standard of stability. You can rest assured that your system is _really_ stable if it passes several hours (ideally at least 12+) of Prime.

I have also been trying to get my Corsair Vengeance 7200MT/s kit stable on an Intel i9-13900K, ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-E GAMING WIFI platform these last few days. It has been quite the rollercoaster ride. At one point it seemed Karhu stable at 1.48V since it passed ~3 hours of Karhu with over 11K coverage (according to the Karhu website, it supposedly catches 99.4x% of errors at 6400% coverage). But a subsequent Prime 95 run ended with workers shutting down so, nope, it was not (Prime) stable...

Anyway, long story short is that I was not able to get this kit Prime stable at anything over 6800MT/s. I am now running it at 6800MT/s with voltages at 1.46V (VDD)/1.45V TX and in this config it is finally Prime stable (16+ hours) as well as Karhu stable.

BTW, at the risk of getting tarred and feathered but you should not be deceived by the supposedly easy OC successes that are reported here. I would bet that most of the 7600/7800/8000+ OCs here are nowhere near Prime stable. You also have to consider that many people here have open benchtables and water cooling setups for their RAM.
Most results here can not be compared to us regular dudes who want to run their gaming PCs with a closed chassis and maybe even as silent as possible.

So, at the end of the day, there is nothing unusual at all about not getting 7200MT/s to run 100% stable. If you are looking for "real" stability then I would advise against cherrypicking stability tests. Yes, Prime 95 might be unrealistic heavy loads that will rarely (if ever) happen in real world scenarios but if your system passes Prime testing then it is truly stable. 
It is time consuming and tedious since you need to run it for several hours but that's just how it goes if you are looking for guaranteed stability.
TM5 and Karhu can/should be used for quick & dirty initial testing to (relatively) quickly identify a wonky OC but if you are looking for true 24/7/365 stability then you will want to get your PC Prime stable.

I wish you the best of luck with the new board but like many of us non-Apex owners who run regular gaming PC setups rather than "lab condition" benchtables, you might have to accept that 7200MT/s is simply out of reach...


----------



## Carillo

So i found this G.skill 5600 c28 AMD EXPO M DIE kit on sale. Quick test on AIR 8000 c34


----------



## Agent-A01

xh43k said:


> Small update: This is fcking crazy... I pass 6 cycles of TM5 Extreme over night, start a game in the morning, it crashes with Exception code: 0xc0000005 which is memory violation, several times in a row.
> So I am at a loss here.. I don't really think Tomahawk would make any difference for memory OC, it has more bells and whistles for the price compared to prime z790-a but I would say that would be it.. looking at their memory specs.
> 
> Does everyone wanting to use 7200MHz XMP Profile need to buy 1500 eur motherboard ?



Do you have air cooling for GPU? I bet heat from GPU is causing memory to raise temperatures.

Try TM5 + unigine heaven in the background for testing to check stability.


----------



## xh43k

Agent-A01 said:


> Do you have air cooling for GPU? I bet heat from GPU is causing memory to raise temperatures.
> 
> Try TM5 + unigine heaven in the background for testing to check stability.


When I play RDR2 my GPU gets up to 70 celsius but memory doesn't go over 47 celsius.
What temps are problematic for memory ?


----------



## chibi

xh43k said:


> When I play RDR2 my GPU gets up to 70 celsius but memory doesn't go over 47 celsius.
> What temps are problematic for memory ?


I’d say you’re close to the tipping point. 50 Celsius will start to error out tests.


----------



## xh43k

chibi said:


> I’d say you’re close to the tipping point. 50 Celsius will start to error out tests.


Yeah it goes over 50 celsius easily just after 2 minutes of TM5 extreme.

But right now the RAM is stable (no errors in TM5 after 20 mins and no crashes whatsoever in games).. the problem comes after I sometimes shut down the computer, boot up and it does memory learning again and screws it up, it becomes very unstable even browser tabs are crashing.. etc..
This happens like once per 5 shutdown/boot up cycles or so.

Anyway.. let's see how will MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk handle this memory kit, should be here on Thursday.


----------



## xpulse

Agent-A01 said:


> Do you have air cooling for GPU? I bet heat from GPU is causing memory to raise temperatures.
> 
> Try TM5 + unigine heaven in the background for testing to check stability.


Same here, my 4090 heating my RAM like crazy in games. TM5 RAM temp 49-51C in games in goes to 65C.


----------



## Betroz

xpulse said:


> Same here, my 4090 heating my RAM like crazy in games. TM5 RAM temp 49-51C in games in goes to 65C.


You need better case cooling.


----------



## asdkj1740

xpulse said:


> Same here, my 4090 heating my RAM like crazy in games. TM5 RAM temp 49-51C in games in goes to 65C.


what stick do you have?
you dont need a better cooling pc case. you just need a cardboard to block the cutout on your gpu's backplate.
checkmate!


----------



## Agent-A01

xh43k said:


> When I play RDR2 my GPU gets up to 70 celsius but memory doesn't go over 47 celsius.
> What temps are problematic for memory ?


It depends on tREFI. If you have >100K you'll see errors around those temps.



xpulse said:


> Same here, my 4090 heating my RAM like crazy in games. TM5 RAM temp 49-51C in games in goes to 65C.


Yes I went from WC 3080Ti to FE 4090 and now I am getting crashing in games purely because memory temps have increased by over 15c in games.
I have a waterblock on the way so the solution is to lower tREFI(I use 262K).


----------



## xh43k

Well… but I am not crashing in games.
I am only crashing after one of 5 shutdown/boot up occurrences, even when computer is idle and I just open a browser and browse some webpages.
then I have to shutdown and boot up again and then it’s fine until next occurrence..
This is weird and it’s pointing me towards some problem with memory learning after boot.
max I mentioned my temps don’t really go above 47 Celsius during games, I have quite beefy air cooling thanks to two 180mm fans as intake (fractal design torrent compact) thus memory temps don’t seem to be the problem I think.
(You can check pictures on link in my signature)


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Well… but I am not crashing in games.
> I am only crashing after one of 5 shutdown/boot up occurrences, even when computer is idle and I just open a browser and browse some webpages.
> then I have to shutdown and boot up again and then it’s fine until next occurrence..
> This is weird and it’s pointing me towards some problem with memory learning after boot.
> max I mentioned my temps don’t really go above 47 Celsius during games, I have quite beefy air cooling thanks to two 180mm fans as intake (fractal design torrent compact) thus memory temps don’t seem to be the problem I think.
> (You can check pictures on link in my signature)


This happens when you are on the edge of memory stability. Did you try to turn off mrc fastboot?


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> Did you try to turn off mrc fastboot?


Uhm, no ? Should Memory related fastboot always turned off ?
Also, I think it is in fact edge of memory stability, isn't that why they sell these kits already overclocked to the edge ?
I know you could get 'more' out of it but not with these timings.


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Uhm, no ? Should Memory related fastboot always turned off ?
> Also, I think it is in fact edge of memory stability, isn't that why they sell these kits already overclocked to the edge ?
> I know you could get 'more' out of it but not with these timings.


For the stability tests it should be. When you have a stable trained config you can turn it back on.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> trained config


Is this something that is done only once and then no longer needs to be done ?
Or are boards constantly retraining memory ?

Because I wonder why the hell does it get from stable training to unstable in between restarts..


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Is this something that is done only once and then no longer needs to be done ?
> Or are boards constantly retraining memory ?
> 
> Because I wonder why the hell does it get from stable training to unstable in between restarts..


If your config is stable and doesn't problem for you that it is booting a bit slower you can just leave it turned off.


----------



## P2IVATEPA2TS

tibcsi0407 said:


> Thank you!
> Could you please post the sensors screen with Asrock Timing configurator?
> 
> Like this:
> View attachment 2591930
> 
> 
> I believe that 1.4V won't be enough for you on dimms.
> 
> You should try to set it in BIOS to DRAM VDD\VDDQ 1.45V (you need to turn on the high voltage mode for RAM)


Testing again later today but I believe I got it stable at 7400Mhz and I will be happy with that. I was having a lot of bsod because I was using an old graphics card (8800GTX...waiting for 4090) that is dying and doesn't like win 11 or vice versa. I can't remember the settings I used but it passed memtest and reinstalled win. I am crossing my fingers because I was getting so many errors. In all honesty, I have doubts after messing with this ram for days on end. I don't like this 7600Mhz kit at all and seems like a lot of people are having issues with it.


----------



## adolf512

The latency refuses to go below 57 ns which is annoying


----------



## Carillo

adolf512 said:


> The latency refuses to go below 57 ns which is annoying
> 
> View attachment 2592103


The key is to have a clean windows install, and do not have RGB,Aura, steam or discord clients running when comparing latency to others. We tend to close everything that can be closed. Check your task manager when idling, you should see 0% usage.


----------



## adolf512

Carillo said:


> The key is to have a clean windows install, and do not have RGB,Aura, steam or discord clients running when comparing latency to others. We tend to close everything that can be closed. Check your task manager when idling, you should see 0% usage.


I am more interested in improving the actual performance of the ram but yea i could try that to get prettier numbers.


----------



## thebski

P2IVATEPA2TS said:


> Testing again later today but I believe I got it stable at 7400Mhz and I will be happy with that. I was having a lot of bsod because I was using an old graphics card (8800GTX...waiting for 4090) that is dying and doesn't like win 11 or vice versa. I can't remember the settings I used but it passed memtest and reinstalled win. I am crossing my fingers because I was getting so many errors. In all honesty, I have doubts after messing with this ram for days on end. I don't like this 7600Mhz kit at all and seems like a lot of people are having issues with it.


Isn't the kit just Hynix A die? I would think it would be pretty much the same kit as their 7200, 7800, and 8000 kits other than the programmed profile. Seems all of those kits are only qualified on 2 DIMM boards, with the 7800 and 8000 kits only qualified on the Apex.


----------



## TheSoda

Hello,

Does anyone know what IMC VDD voltage is on Z790? 










I haven't changed this in the BIOS this is just the default from the motherboard but 1.51 may be high depending on what this is.... lol


----------



## dumassnoob

thebski said:


> Isn't the kit just Hynix A die? I would think it would be pretty much the same kit as their 7200, 7800, and 8000 kits other than the programmed profile. Seems all of those kits are only qualified on 2 DIMM boards, with the 7800 and 8000 kits only qualified on the Apex.


All of Teamgroup's A-die are on the qvl of all the gigabyte motherboards, but only in 2 dimm config. The only 4 dimm qvl i've seen on gigabyte is Teamgroup m-die at 6200mhz and Corsair B-die at 5600mhz, on aorus xtreme (and possibly other gigabyte boards)


----------



## thebski

TheSoda said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone know what IMC VDD voltage is on Z790?
> 
> View attachment 2592116
> 
> 
> I haven't changed this in the BIOS this is just the default from the motherboard but 1.51 may be high depending on what this is.... lol


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is the memory controller voltage. At least on mine when I change MC voltage (Asus bios) that's the value that changes. Seems really high to me, but mine defaulted to that too when going over 7000. I don't know what is considered too high on these CPUs.


----------



## sippo

New beta bios for Unify-X and unify z690 





Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com





Does anyone know what they changed?


----------



## xh43k

thebski said:


> Seems really high to me


1.50 Seems high to you ? Look at this.. 7200 MHz RAM, XMP only no manual OC

I wonder which setting is this related to on Asus MB in BIOS.. didn't find it yet.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

thebski said:


> Isn't the kit just Hynix A die? I would think it would be pretty much the same kit as their 7200, 7800, and 8000 kits other than the programmed profile. Seems all of those kits are only qualified on 2 DIMM boards, with the 7800 and 8000 kits only qualified on the Apex.


The z790 extreme has 7800 support.


----------



## acoustic

sippo said:


> New beta bios for Unify-X and unify z690
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beta/MP - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what they changed?


Yay! Most likely new microcode update


----------



## Dinnzy

what are you boys with 2 dim MB (specifically z690 dark) using for water cooling your ram these days ?


----------



## acoustic

Dinnzy said:


> what are you boys with 2 dim MB (specifically z690 dark) using for water cooling your ram these days ?


IceManCooler heatspreaders with their 2-slot DIMM block. Works fantastic. ~3c delta above WaterT during Karhu/TM5 stress tests. They look great with the nickel-plating as well. I used Thermalright Oddessy thermal pads 0.5mm+1mm and 0.5mm pad between the waterblock+heatspreaders



https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256803882609153.html?sku_id=12000027934006448&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2usaMsite&_randl_shipto=US





https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804122161193.html?spm=a2g0n.detail.1000013.3.2b9a33IG33IG79&gps-id=storeRecommendH5&scm=1007.18500.300835.0&scm_id=1007.18500.300835.0&scm-url=1007.18500.300835.0&pvid=aae2ed8a-5f69-4092-9741-48997773f0f2&_t=gps-id:storeRecommendH5,scm-url:1007.18500.300835.0,pvid:aae2ed8a-5f69-4092-9741-48997773f0f2,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238111%231996&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%2158.23%2158.23%21%21%21%21%21%402101d1b916728475786228425e02e9%2112000029558137687%21rec&_universallink=1&m_page_id=thpalmuecaumyyvi1857d7c2945250af68ea22cb6f


----------



## Carillo

adolf512 said:


> I am more interested in improving the actual performance of the ram but yea i could try that to get prettier numbers.


How can you improve performance without knowing your base-latency ( clean OS) ? As long as clients is running , your latency can vary 5ns without alternating mem OC


----------



## bscool

xh43k said:


> 1.50 Seems high to you ? Look at this.. 7200 MHz RAM, XMP only no manual OC
> 
> I wonder which setting is this related to on Asus MB in BIOS.. didn't find it yet.
> 
> View attachment 2592122


Memory Controller under Advanced Memory Settings

At 15:30


----------



## thebski

xh43k said:


> 1.50 Seems high to you ? Look at this.. 7200 MHz RAM, XMP only no manual OC
> 
> I wonder which setting is this related to on Asus MB in BIOS.. didn't find it yet.
> 
> View attachment 2592122


I don't know what is and isn't considered high on these CPU's. The last time I really got serious about memory overclocking was DDR4 days on the 8700K/9900K and back then a lot of people recommended keeping it under 1.2V. Everyone was always worried about degrading their IMC. Then there were those that rocked on with 1.3V+ and didn't worry about it.

These are obviously very different CPUs entirely, DDR5 IMC instead of DDR4, etc. I have no idea what is considered high or if there are the same fears of IMC degradation there used to be or not. I would go to the DDR5 24/7 stability thread and ask those guys. There's some pretty experienced memory tweakers in that thread.

As far as in the Asus bios, it's called "MC Voltage", at least in the ROG bios.

Edit: This is the 24/7 memory thread, haha. Someone in here should have some advice on what is considered too high. Would love to know myself.


----------



## thebski

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> The z790 extreme has 7800 support.


I was just going off of the G.Skill QVL list on their website. None of their kits above 7200 are qualified on anything other than 2 dimm boards.


----------



## Dodgexander

There's not much talk of pricing here, and I've seen some posts asking about it. Before asking I'd thought I'd chime in with some of my own findings (and ramblings).

Prices are coming down on Team A die in the US. A few weeks ago, the 7200 kit was $400 and now it's $290. The 7800 kit is now $400 but only available on Newegg.
You can even get Team 6800 which is guaranteed A die at not that much extra over most M die kits ($230). Gskill is also dropping a bit in price, but not as much.

This makes the pricing of other kits from the likes of Corsair and Kingston look stupid. I know Corsair will always be more expensive, but their 7600 kit is over $550 dollars on their website. For not much more you can buy the G.Skill 8000 kit. Kingston tops out at 7200 but instead of the $290 Team are charging, they charge $360!

I want to get a kit with good cooling and so far, that seems to limit me to Kingston or Corsair. I owned the Team 7200 kit before and it's toasty, I don't think they are cooling the PMIC chip at all, and the heatsink design doesn't seem to do a good job. At the moment Kingston 7200 is winning the race for me, since I know it has better cooling and you can get 10% extra off as a new customer.
Corsair had a Xmas extra 10% off so I'm hoping that will return as I think the Dominators are still probably the ones with the _best_ cooling.

So far there seems zero evidence that the higher rated kits actually clock better. I think the margin of error between best and worst is small with A die. Probably pumping the same voltage into a 6800 kit will give you the same results at higher clocks as an 8000 kit but at the same time the 6800 kits apart from Team are almost the same price anyway.

As long as you have a fan on the ram you may not need to worry about G.Skill or Team ram cooling unless you're wanting to pump more than 1.5v. The sad thing is a lot of these kits can't even do XMP level stress testing without a fan directed at the ram. The Team 7200 kit I owned was hitting over 55°c in TM5 at its rated 1.45v, it becomes a hot box on my z790i Edge with no gap between modules. Because of the RGB design the heatsinks are so thick there's no gap between them.

These memory manufacturers need a kick up the backside for keeping the same heatsink design on new DDR5 as they had with DDR4. The chips run a lot hotter, yet they are keeping with old designs with poor contact and heatsink design.


----------



## amethy

z690 ux update, new me and new mrc. spd write disable(some software need dis or on). Mem oc improve.
Lucky mode now available mode1 mode2 mode3.
add gear4














文件分享







share.weiyun.com


----------



## acoustic

amethy said:


> z690 ux update, new me and new mrc. spd write disable(some software need dis or on). Mem oc improve.
> Lucky mode now available mode1 mode2 mode3.
> add gear4
> View attachment 2592163
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 文件分享
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share.weiyun.com


Amethy, I don't know if you have access to talk to someone from MSI directly, but if you do, can you forward them to this post? [OFFICIAL] MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X Owners Thread

I found some issues with this release and I have no one to contact, regarding overclocking the Ring.

I need more VDDQ TX on this BIOS than A8 official for the same settings, but I'm on M-Die..


----------



## aznsniper911

Anyone else having more issues with Corsair DDR5 A Die kits then G.skill or Team Group?


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

centvalny said:


> @ 8000 and 8800
> 
> View attachment 2590948
> 
> View attachment 2590950


Im very curious as to what your RAM cooling setup looks like. The delta between your minimum and maximum SPD temps is wonderfully small.

I'll be looping my Bitspower 2-DIMM waterblock into my loop this coming weekend. I currently have the waterblock installed, but am runnong it dry at the moment because its still better than the G.Skill heatspreaders. I also used some .5mm "Thermal Grizzley Minus Pad Extreme" thermal pads on the memory modules. They seem to be working pretty well, and id hope so for 35$ USD per pad.

My max SPD temp has been 48° C running 8000mhz CL36 @ 1.51v , and that's with the TG Minus Pad Extreme(s), A dry waterblock w/heatspreaders, and a 60mm 6000rpm fan pointed down at the sticks to move air between them.

Do you think running fluid through the waterblock will make as much difference as im hoping it will? Im only skeptical because there just doesn't seem to be much contact area between the Bitspower waterblock and the Bitspower heatspreaders. Plus the heatspreaders are aluminum, which kinda surprised me. I figured they would be copper, steel, or nickel.

It also surprised me that Bitspower didnt include a thermal pad to use between the waterblock and the heatspreaders, or instruct to use one anywhere in the manual. But i still put a .5mm TG Minus Pad Extreme between the RAM waterblock and the heatspreaders because it only seemed logical


----------



## kunit13

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Im very curious as to what your RAM cooling setup looks like. The delta between your minimum and maximum SPD temps is wonderfully small.
> 
> I'll be looping my Bitspower 2-DIMM waterblock into my loop this coming weekend. I currently have the waterblock installed, but am runnong it dry at the moment because its still better than the G.Skill heatspreaders. I also used some .5mm "Thermal Grizzley Minus Pad Extreme" thermal pads on the memory modules. They seem to be working pretty well, and id hope so for 35$ USD per pad.
> 
> My max SPD temp has been 48° C running 8000mhz CL36 @ 1.51v , and that's with the TG Minus Pad Extreme(s), A dry waterblock w/heatspreaders, and a 60mm 6000rpm fan pointed down at the sticks to move air between them.
> 
> Do you think running fluid through the waterblock will make as much difference as im hoping it will? Im only skeptical because there just doesn't seem to be much contact area between the Bitspower waterblock and the Bitspower heatspreaders. Plus the heatspreaders are aluminum, which kinda surprised me. It also surprised me that Bitspower didnt include a thermal pad to use between the waterblock and the heatspreaders, or instruct to use one anywhere in the manual. But i still put a .5mm TG Minus Pad Extreme between the RAM waterblock and the heatspreaders because it only seemed logical


I was thinking about ordering the same waterblock for mine "bitspower". Quick question: Do we order the single sided version of dual? 2x16gb sticks.


Also my spd temps for mine 8000cl36 (1.45v) while running memtest64 (60min) gets to about 44-45c with the small apex fan and 120 on top.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

kunit13 said:


> I was thinking about ordering the same waterblock for mine "bitspower". Quick question: Do we order the single sided version of dual? 2x16gb sticks.
> 
> Also my spd temps for mine 8000cl36 (1.45v) while running memtest64 gets to about 44-45c with the small apex fan and 120 on top.


You'll want to get the Single Sided version. You'd only get the double sided version if your running dual rank ram sticks with memory modules on both sides of the DIMM PCB. But 2x16gb kits are all single rank single sided. 

According to the extremely non-descriptive and vague Bitspower manual for the waterblock and heatspreaderss, you're supposed to put the heatspreader with the thick extrusion on the back side of the stick, and the heatspreaders with the thin extrusion on the front side (module side). I did this originally, and found that there was too much thickness at the base of the heatspreader, causing the ends to flare out. So instead i put the thick side on the front with a .5mm thermal pad, and the thin side on the back with a 1mm thermal pad, and the heatspreader sits perfectly flush with no flaring of the base, while still making visible pressure with the modules 

Just my two cents

Also - What are your SPD temps when you run HCI memtest pro for about 10 minutes? And what's your ambient air tem? I only hit 48° after about 10 minutes of HCI Memtestpro.


----------



## P2IVATEPA2TS

thebski said:


> Isn't the kit just Hynix A die? I would think it would be pretty much the same kit as their 7200, 7800, and 8000 kits other than the programmed profile. Seems all of those kits are only qualified on 2 DIMM boards, with the 7800 and 8000 kits only qualified on the Apex.


It was on the QVL list for the Maximus extreme z790 and there were 3 reviews on Newegg that got them working on the extreme board. I'm good now with 7400. 200 Mhz lost is nothing compared to my time I spent just getting them above 6800. .now waiting on the 4090 and Corsair Xeneon Flex.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

7600 Doms @7400MHz CL34. Load memory temp is a bug, max was 53'C ish:


----------



## Timur Born

Hynix (most likely M)








(1.15v CPU VDD2 and VDDQ)


----------



## Dodgexander

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 7600 Doms @7400MHz CL34. Load memory temp is a bug, max was 53'C ish:
> 
> View attachment 2592231


Did you pay full whack for those? Selling for over 550 USD on Corsair.com.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Dodgexander said:


> Did you pay full whack for those? Selling for over 550 USD on Corsair.com.


Paid "full whack" yes.


----------



## kunit13

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> You'll want to get the Single Sided version. You'd only get the double sided version if your running dual rank ram sticks with memory modules on both sides of the DIMM PCB. But 2x16gb kits are all single rank single sided.
> 
> M
> 
> Just my two cents
> 
> Also - What are your SPD temps when you run HCI memtest pro for about 10 minutes? And what's your ambient air tem? I only hit 48° after about 10 minutes of HCI Memtestpro.


I dont have HCI memtest pro. I use TM5 for stability and MEMTEST64 for stress (it seems to raise temps in about 10 min).

Luumi had a video about bitspower heat spreaders and he said to install the spreader opposite of the instructions because the thicker side (where the block attaches) would transfer heat better.
I dont know if they are the same he was using them with LN pot.

Thanks for heads up, I didn't know if DDR5 16gb sticks populated both sides. What sticks are you using and did you use the acetone bath to get the heat spreaders off?

I just did another quick 10 min test. Room temp is 22c


----------



## asdkj1740

Timur Born said:


> Hynix (most likely M)
> View attachment 2592252
> 
> (1.15v CPU VDD2 and VDDQ)


welcome!


----------



## Astral85

Hello,

I've got a pair of Corsair Dominator 6000Mhz. One of the DIMM's keeps spiking to 47.8C while I'm just using Chrome with tabs open. The other DIMM max temp is 33.3C and both DIMM's voltages and power draw are equal. Anyone have any clues on this? Does it seem like a fault?










Edit: Just noticed the minimum for that DIMM is 16C, so maybe this is a BIOS/software bug?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

It's a bug, no worries here.


----------



## Astral85

MrTOOSHORT said:


> It's a bug, no worries here.


Any idea what the bug is with? HWiNFO? BIOS?


----------



## robalm

Astral85 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've got a pair of Corsair Dominator 6000Mhz. One of the DIMM's keeps spiking to 47.8C while I'm just using Chrome with tabs open. The other DIMM max temp is 33.3C and both DIMM's voltages and power draw are equal. Anyone have any clues on this? Does it seem like a fault?
> 
> View attachment 2592279
> 
> 
> Edit: Just noticed the minimum for that DIMM is 16C, so maybe this is a BIOS/software bug?


Same bug here, 47.8c and 63.8c.


----------



## asdkj1740

robalm said:


> Same bug here, 47.8c and 63.8c.


this bug may happen when you stop the stress test, kind of like cpu voltage overshoot.
use hwinfo log and you shall be able to check the spd temp.


----------



## Astral85

robalm said:


> Same bug here, 47.8c and 63.8c.


Do you have Windows Defender Core Isolation on? This used to cause major reading issues with 10th gen and HWiNFO but looks to be majorly improved with 13th gen. It's the only possibility I can think of other than some other issue with HWiNFO. Are you using an Asus motherboard?


----------



## Astral85

asdkj1740 said:


> this bug may happen when you stop the stress test, kind of like cpu voltage overshoot.
> use hwinfo log and you shall be able to check the spd temp.


Doesn't seem stress test related for me, it's happening after a clean boot into Windows and just browsing Chrome tabs.


----------



## 3DFun

dinvlad said:


> Looking to get MSI Z790i Edge for 13900K with this 2x32GB kit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F5-6400J3239G32GX2-TZ5RS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V 64GB (2x32GB) Intel XMP Trident Z5 RGB series DDR5 memory is designed for ultra-high performance on DDR5 platforms. Featuring a sleek and streamlined aluminum heatspreader design, available in metallic silver or matte black, the Trident Z5 RGB series...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI QVL says it's Hynix A-die. Given that and overclockability of this board, do you think I could expect to hit 7,600-8,000 MT/s with it?
> Or do you recommend to try some other kit (I do want 64GB though)? I'm a bit concerned about the loose timings here.
> 
> (I also run a custom loop and expect to put it under water)
> 
> Sorry if my question is naive, I'm new here


Dude, you wrote that you were going to try Edge z790i motherboard, did you have a chance to? I am also looking to buy such and my main goal is RAM overclock.
Could you share your experiences please?
many thanks


----------



## the_patchelor

MSI Z790i max stable 7600MT/s A-Die for me, 2x 13700KF and 2x G.Skill (6600, 6000) 2x16GB kits tested. boot into windows 8000MT/s with luck 8200MT/s possible. no chance to get stable on air. Tested all late beta bios versions, 1.23U3 so far best for me.

Will now change to Apex, may my RAM really the limit....


----------



## energie80

New msi unify x beta bios can now use 8000 😍


----------



## robalm

asdkj1740 said:


> this bug may happen when you stop the stress test, kind of like cpu voltage overshoot.
> use hwinfo log and you shall be able to check the spd temp.


Na, i have hwinfo64 running in background all the time.
The 47.8c happens random even at idle.
But the 63.8c happens when the temp is higher (around 40c) from game or stresstest.

No defender services or crap on my pc, all turned off permanent!


----------



## xh43k

An update from my side, I installed MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk in the morning, put in the 7200 MHz CL34 G.Skill modules, enabled XMP profile and so far so good, no stability issues that I could notice whatsoever.. several cold boots, restarts etc.. no problems !
Compared to previous Asus Prime boards its like night and day difference (So far.. not to jinx it)
I might even be able to OC the memory if I'll feel like it in the future.

EDIT: But it seems there is one difference, slightly higher latency.. is this considered bad ?

Edit: I jinxed it,TM5 now throws error '4' even on this board..


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> An update from my side, I installed MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk in the morning, put in the 7200 MHz CL34 G.Skill modules, enabled XMP profile and so far so good, no stability issues that I could notice whatsoever.. several cold boots, restarts etc.. no problems !
> Compared to previous Asus Prime boards its like night and day difference (So far.. not to jinx it)
> I might even be able to OC the memory if I'll feel like it in the future.
> 
> EDIT: But it seems there is one difference, slightly higher latency.. is this considered bad ?
> 
> View attachment 2592309


Latency is too big for 13700k, even on 12600k with Samsung 51.5ns


----------



## xh43k

What can I do about it though..









Edit: I jinxed it,TM5 now throws error 4 even on this board..
**** there is no sub 500 boards that can handle 7200 MHz fine ?
Or is my CPU IMC crap.


----------



## the_patchelor

below 400€. 2 slot like msi z790i can do 7600 if IMC is okay, but yeaaa it's ITX and not perfect too.

try tuning voltages SA 1.2v (auto may 1.3), VDD/VDDQ 1,4-1,45v
VDDD2 (=IMC) 1.4-1.45v
VDDQ TX 1.35v

monitore voltages and temperatures with hwinfo64 and use a small fan on RAM if over 45 already


----------



## Dodgexander

the_patchelor said:


> MSI Z790i max stable 7600MT/s A-Die for me, 2x 13700KF and 2x G.Skill (6600, 6000) 2x16GB kits tested. boot into windows 8000MT/s with luck 8200MT/s possible. no chance to get stable on air. Tested all late beta bios versions, 1.23U3 so far best for me.
> 
> Will now change to Apex, may my RAM really the limit....


Surely if you state there's no chance getting stable on air then the restriction is cooling, rather than the motherboard?
This board has an 8000MT/s and several 7800MT/s ram listed on its QVL and should be capable of higher, much like the Apex.
The block you are hitting could be due to heat and/or Memory limitations. I've run my 12700k at 7800MT/s on the same board.


----------



## xh43k

I am just so disappointed.
I bought three motherboards already, two from ASUS (z790-p/a) and one from MSI (mag z790 tomahawk), always getting more and more expensive, this one cost 390€ and yet it can’t run god damned 7200 XMP profile stable and it has terrible memory latency.
Is it limitation of MB or CPU now ?
Idk what should I do to just get it working as advertised.
I don’t remember having these issues just running xmp profile ever in the past.


----------



## the_patchelor

just XMP? lower latency need manual tweaking of course!


----------



## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> just XMP? lower latency need manual tweaking of course!


Not sure if this is a joke, but I built my computers for the past 20 years and literally always XMP profile was just “enable and you were done”. 
Provided I skipped last gen but why the duck would they sell unstable XMP memory kits then.


----------



## the_patchelor

not a joke, but your are right by default customer expects that XMP works, but DDR5 is still "special". All over 6400 can be hard...msi (and other) write on there support site:
"Note: CPU memory controller quality will affect the memory operating frequency"

To improve (a running XMP setting) it's required to tighten timings and subs. But this was already on DDR4 and e.g Samsung B-Dies "a must"


EDIT: MSI story, my z790i has one 8000MT/s kit on QVL but I can't get my A-Dies (overclocked) stable. So far, I believe the 7200 on the 4slot Z790 TOMAHAWK are possible under perfect conditions 

But may be I'm wrong and should really buy a/the only true "real" 8000 XMP kit.... (NO I WON'T, I save money now on RAM and try Z790 Apex)


----------



## Sheyster

the_patchelor said:


> not a joke, but your are right by default customer expects that XMP works, but DDR5 is still "special". All over 6400 can be hard...msi (and other) write on there support site:
> "Note: CPU memory controller quality will affect the memory operating frequency"
> 
> To improve (a running XMP setting) it's required to tighten timings and subs. But this was already on DDR4 and e.g Samsung B-Dies "a must"


Bottom line, there is no guarantee that a certain kit will work with all combinations of mobo and CPU at a given speed. Even with DDR4, there were issues with high speed kits and some mobos/CPUs. For the life of me, I could not get DDR4 4000 G.Skill (B-die) to run at XMP on a Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro board. I took the kit over to my friend's house with a Z390 Asrock Taichi and XMP 4000 booted right up without any tweaking.


----------



## robalm

Got a nice latency for my old stuff i9 12000k and 4 dimm motherboard.












7000 cl 32, but im sure not stable (not good latency and poor copy)


----------



## xh43k

Sheyster said:


> Bottom line, there is no guarantee that a certain kit will work with all combinations of mobo and CPU at a given speed. Even with DDR4, there were issues with high speed kits and some mobos/CPUs. For the life of me, I could not get DDR4 4000 G.Skill (B-die) to run at XMP on a Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro board. I took the kit over to my friend's house with a Z390 Asrock Taichi and XMP 4000 booted right up without any tweaking.


alright but what can average customer do to make this kit at least run 7000MHZ because even though I lowered it from 7200 to 7000 I still get slow 102000 copy and 67 latency

if I lower it to 6800 could it get better ?

I just would prefer everything to work out if the box though


----------



## the_patchelor

How I did a year ago when DDR5 was new  

check the screens and "copy" values from stable settings that match memory type (SK Hynix A-dies in your case) and your prefered speed (stable means Karhu, TM5, etc).
Please do not lower any values by "luck" or expect a stable setting then...
For latency, check tRFC2 and tRFCpb.

DDR5 OC is like a long journey or studies... many people here already spent years on learning for DDR4 optimizing. So tweaking and testing (to keep it stable) takes ages.
It can happen that a new Bios version will promise a lot and then you spent 3-4 nights to go back to an older one...

But it seems that the Tomahwk is not so well "supported" less beta bios version available (if my source is up to date), so once more, less hope for high OC but


----------



## xh43k

So essentially any board except the cheapest or the most expensive ones is a waste of money…


----------



## the_patchelor

no word about the price for new boards today... for memory OC (XMP is already overclock as Intel sells 5600 as supported default) I always would go for a 1DPC Board with good Bios support OR

-Some expensive ASUS Strix Z790-E may also works great with 7200-7800 and I would expect good and fast bios suppport to get it stable
-MSI MEG Z690 Unify-X does have still some potential as well (A91 bios)
-Gigabyte Z790 does have some "bios" success with high bandwith and low latency mode (some pages ago were some screens)

May if you wait some 2-3 months, 7200XMP will run more easy (I know, we can't wait)


----------



## bscool

edit


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

If you're just going to XMP, don't complain if the latency isn't great. Need to put in the work and tune it too.


----------



## Sheyster

xh43k said:


> alright but what can average customer do to make this kit at least run 7000MHZ because even though I lowered it from 7200 to 7000 I still get slow 102000 copy and 67 latency
> 
> if I lower it to 6800 could it get better ?
> 
> I just would prefer everything to work out if the box though


This is about as good as I could get with fully tweaked 6800C32, to give you an idea.









This is the same kit, 7600 untweaked:


----------



## bscool

the_patchelor said:


> MSI Z790i max stable 7600MT/s A-Die for me, 2x 13700KF and 2x G.Skill (6600, 6000) 2x16GB kits tested. boot into windows 8000MT/s with luck 8200MT/s possible. no chance to get stable on air. Tested all late beta bios versions, 1.23U3 so far best for me.
> 
> Will now change to Apex, may my RAM really the limit....


Did you test each dim slot? I bring this up because in Discord someone that works on MSI bios was talking about checking dim slot differences. 

It something every MB has but I think many forget about or overlook it. Anyway on this discord the guy who had an MSI z790 edge it ended up his chB/slot 2 was much weaker than his cha slot 1. I think his chB only did 7400; Actually the user was Faris and he talks about it in his ddr4 testing 

"Initially I had planned on testing DDR5 too. However once I received my MSI Z790I Edge WiFi and began overclocking my GSkill Trident Z5 7600MHz C36 kit, I discovered that the second RAM slot on my motherboard was faulty as it could only stabilise 7466MT/s and even XMP with this QVL'd kit was unstable."






PCBuilding


KingFaris10's Site




kingfaris.co.uk


----------



## the_patchelor

Not tested, at least Memory Force in bios looks almost equal for both channels/slots. (not sure if this is great to verify)


----------



## bscool

the_patchelor said:


> Not tested, at least Memory Force in bios looks almost equal for both channels/slots. (not sure if this is great to verify)


I think if memory force was a good way to check the MSI bios guy would have told him to check that and not test each slot. But just my guess.


----------



## xh43k

Sheyster said:


> This is about as good as I could get with fully tweaked 6800C32, to give you an idea.


This is without any tinkering .. just lowered frequency from 7200 to 7000, seems like **** compared to all of your results.


----------



## the_patchelor

Bios, Advanced Memory Timings, this will be your place for the next 3 nights 










full size


https://abload.de/img/screenshot90kef8m.jpg


----------



## bscool

xh43k said:


> This is without any tinkering .. just lowered frequency from 7200 to 7000, seems like **** compared to all of your results.
> 
> View attachment 2592356


Well there is one reason right in your screenshot for high latency(Hypervisor). Optimizing Windows can drop a good 2-5ns plus off compared to normal Windows. But subtimings will drop another 5-10ns plus.

So a good 15 to 20ns plus tuning sub timings and optimizing Windows.


----------



## Sheyster

xh43k said:


> This is without any tinkering .. just lowered frequency from 7200 to 7000, seems like **** compared to all of your results.
> 
> View attachment 2592356


Your ring clock (north bridge clock) is lower than mine which would have some impact. Latency is super high though regardless. Memory kit tuning is a bit time consuming but I expect you'd see big improvements over this.

EDIT - Also suggest you get the full version of AIDA64. You'll need it for memory write and copy tuning.


----------



## xh43k

Oh no.. I don't have time for this, I have full time job, 1.5yo son and in the spare time I want to spend it gaming not tinkering with memory subtimings, I just expected XMP to work straight away, thus why I invested tad more in to better memory kit.. seems it was worthless investment... same as more expensive MB.
Should've gone with cheapest MB and some 6000 MHz memory kit and call it a day.
Disappointed.. after many years of plug and play they expect customers to tweak their products.
Sad times.


----------



## Sheyster

xh43k said:


> Oh no.. I don't have time for this, I have full time job, 1.5yo son and in the spare time I want to spend it gaming not tinkering with memory subtimings, I just expected XMP to work straight away, thus why I invested tad more in to better memory kit.. seems it was worthless investment... same as more expensive MB.
> Should've gone with cheapest MB and some 6000 MHz memory kit and call it a day.
> Disappointed.. after many years of plug and play they expect customers to tweak their products.
> Sad times.


Are you running the latest MSI BIOS for your mobo? This could help with 7200 XMP support. It's also possible a future BIOS update could help.


----------



## xh43k

Sheyster said:


> Are you running the latest MSI BIOS for your mobo? This could help with 7200 XMP support. It's also possible a future BIOS update could help.


Yes, 7D91vH1 with release date 2022-11-21


----------



## the_patchelor

m-flash only MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFIH12U1.zip 
E7D91IMS.H12U1

was shared here already 





User test Bios,attention to the date - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> m-flash only MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFIH12U1.zip
> E7D91IMS.H12U1
> 
> was shared here already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> User test Bios,attention to the date - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Did it work for you ? What are the risks... 
Is there a chance of bricking bios ?
I do have backup of current bios on a USB stick so I wonder if I'd be able to restore it using the q-flash.


----------



## the_patchelor

current backup normally only work with your H1 version but not H12

If you have not set any advanced timing then there are not so many settings left you need to restore. Trust me, doing bios flashs many times, you will learn to enter subtiming blind with one hand soon..


----------



## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> current backup normally only work with your H1 version but not H12
> 
> If you have not set any advanced timing then there are not so many settings left you need to restore. Trust me, doing bios flashs many times, you will learn to enter subtiming blind with one hand soon..


Nah I honestly dont want to play with subtimings.. I would only flash this bios, set back XMP 7200 and see if it improves stability or not.

Also, I was mostly asking whether I should trust some BIOS from random google drive.. or is the person sharing it trustworthy ?

As for the backup - I didn't mean any settings.. I dont care about those, I meant if I'd be able to restore BIOS itself it anything happens, I have current H1 version .bin file which in case of problems I should be able to restore using q-flash right ?

btw, the current official bios was released 21.11.2022
while this beta bios was released 22.11.2022 
I wonder what they could've changed within one day.. might or might not be related to memory at all. Is there some changelog ? I literally can't find anything about the beta bios of msi


----------



## the_patchelor

most likely official bios is much older, programmed, tested, tested, tested, reviewed, released.
Used bios from same google drive. Copy to small USB drive, Fat32 and run m-flash from Bios to update


----------



## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> most likely official bios is much older, programmed, tested, tested, tested, reviewed, released.


so did it help you in RAM stability at all ?


----------



## Word_Up71

Just bought the MSI Z790I Edge Wifi (support 8000).
With TG 7200 FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 and Kingston KF556C40BBK2-32 no chance to get over 7200.
Board can do it, but my 13700KF IMC not.

No one can tell me, that every CPU can do 7400/7600/8000.
Have nothing to do with luck. 
They have selected CPU. (order 10 pieces and take one, 9 goes back to company).


----------



## xh43k

Word_Up71 said:


> No one can tell me, that every CPU can do 7400/7600/8000.


I agree.. it's a lot about CPU IMC, I think they even put better IMC to 13900k thus why people mostly buying this CPU and expensive boards have better OC.

13700k is struggling with 7000+ in general from what I see on reddit and some forums. (I spent countless hours trying to fix this.. and replacing MB's RAM kits.. but it was too late to return the CPU unfortunately)


----------



## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> most likely official bios is much older, programmed, tested, tested, tested, reviewed, released.
> Used bios from same google drive. Copy to small USB drive, Fat32 and run m-flash from Bios to update


I updated to this beta bios, no change in timings, latency still 67+ :/


----------



## the_patchelor

Sure default is default… But may be a road to 7200… you need to optimize timings to lower your latency. XMP is only a stupid basic set to enable higher speed over jedec 4800/5600, low settings to run on most systems and conditions.

run asrock tool to see what‘s on your system and compare with our screens. If you don‘t like to optimize then your result is what you paid for.


----------



## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> Sure default is default… But may be a road to 7200… you need to optimize timings to lower your latency. XMP is only a stupid basic set to enable higher speed over jedec 4800/5600, low settings to run on most systems and conditions.
> 
> run asrock tool to see what‘s on your system and compare with our screens. If you don‘t like to optimize then your result is what you paid for.


7200 is unstable with my CPU even with 'default' settings, 7000 'seems' stable but if I start tinkering and lowering latency I guess it will also become unstable and so on..

But I might give it a try.. is there a way on how to edit timings directly in windows ? Anything working with MSI Bios ?
Does it also save the timings or how does it work ? Thx

Edit: 7000 also unstable after all... I guess my cpu IMC is ****.


----------



## sulalin

T-FORCE DDR5 8000 XMP IS COMING SOON
IC 247A


----------



## Dodgexander

Word_Up71 said:


> Just bought the MSI Z790I Edge Wifi (support 8000).
> With TG 7200 FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01 and Kingston KF556C40BBK2-32 no chance to get over 7200.
> Board can do it, but my 13700KF IMC not.
> 
> No one can tell me, that every CPU can do 7400/7600/8000.
> Have nothing to do with luck.
> They have selected CPU. (order 10 pieces and take one, 9 goes back to company).


I have a 12700k and can do 7800 with the same team group ram. You need to raise the ram voltage but by doing so you also may get too high temps causing instability. You need to keep temps under 50° load which already is a challenge at XMP voltages.

You may also need more system agent voltage.


----------



## DarkEmpire

On a z790 and 12900kf is it even real to get a stable 7000mhz+? No stability on XMP 7200mhz F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK
As soon as you lower the frequency to 7000, the errors disappear.


Spoiler


----------



## QXE

Oloy MPower once again impresses me. DDR5-8533 Y-Cruncher at ambient. Pushed ring a bit for sub-45s.


----------



## xh43k

So I improved performance of my 7200

Now I wonder if it will be stable... I got a link to video but the guy was doing this on Gigabyte MB so I tried to replicate most of his settings, the only thing I couldn't were PLL overvoltage settings (which as he mentions were the most important ), since I can't find those in my MSI BIOS.

Any idea how to do PLL overvoltage as he did but on MSI BIOS ?

Also, is there any way on how to change the timings in windows directly with MSI Motherboard ?


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> View attachment 2592475
> 
> Oloy MPower once again impresses me. DDR5-8533 Y-Cruncher at ambient. Pushed ring a bit for sub-45s.


Any hwinfo and memtweakit to share?
Great job


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> Any hwinfo and memtweakit to share?
> Great job


Timings are the exact same as my previous 8533 post. Just felt like submitting a Y-Cruncher run. HWinfo was not open so I could get a good score.


----------



## Nizzen

QXE said:


> View attachment 2591950
> 
> WIP // 8533 CL34
> Just for Sulalin I’m using Oloy MPower with Z790 apex.


Voltages ?


----------



## QXE

Nizzen said:


> Voltages ?


1.66 VDD 1.61 VDDQ 1.32 IVR TX 1.506 MC/VDD2, 1.25 SA (karhu)/1.3 SA (YC 2.5B)


----------



## xh43k

Quick question.. are these voltages safe 24/7 or are they only good for quick benchmarks ?

CPU SA 1.35
CPU AUX 2.0
DRAM VPP 1.9


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Quick question.. are these voltages safe 24/7 or are they only good for quick benchmarks ?
> 
> CPU SA 1.35
> CPU AUX 2.0
> DRAM VPP 1.9


They are ok, but raising VPP is not necessary in my opinion. Also, For SA you can find a sweet spot below 1.2V


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> They are ok, but raising VPP is not necessary in my opinion. Also, For SA you can find a sweet spot below 1.2V


Well.. currently if I set all three on auto it looks like this:









So not sure which to increase to improve stability


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Well.. currently if I set all three on auto it looks like this:
> View attachment 2592488
> 
> 
> So not sure which to increase to improve stability


AUX and SA could help. That high VPP is only necessary if you have very high RAM voltages.
SA is sometimes much more stable when it's lower.
You should try to increase the dram voltages. By .01V steps until it will be stable.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> AUX and SA could help. That high VPP is only necessary if you have very high RAM voltages.
> SA is sometimes much more stable when it's lower.
> You should try to increase the dram voltages. By .01V steps until it will be stable.


The weird thing is that when I removed the manual increased voltages and left them on auto, it *looks* stable now...
This is with the newest beta bios which I got from MSI Support today, version E7D91IMS.*H23*
I literally just updated BIOS, tried XMP first, it was unstable after 5 minutes.. then increased voltages and lowered timings which was unstable.. then removed manual voltages and now for some reason its stable ?! ***.
Essentially, it's just XMP enabled with tightened timings and its more stable.. maybe thanks to increased tREFi ? Default is around 7000, now its 111111, this is the only timing thats loose-r.
What does tREFi affect in general ? Any affect on gaming ?


----------



## Betroz

@Carillo That M-die kit you recommended, how does that scale with voltage on AIR? (having only a fan over them) When you tune the timings, does it behave different than A-die?


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> @Carillo That M-die kit you recommended, how does that scale with voltage on AIR? (having only a fan over them) When you tune the timings, does it behave different than A-die?


Scales well. No problem running 1.7VDD. I tested 7000 c30.40.40.28/ 290trfc super tight @ 1.600 VDD HCI yesterday, only for a few minutes, but still seems good.


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> Scales well. No problem running 1.7VDD. I tested 7000 c30.40.40.28/ 290trfc super tight @ 1.600 VDD HCI yesterday, only for a few minutes, but still seems good.


I dunno if I want to run that high VDD for 24/7 use as I want the sticks to last 3+ years at least


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> The weird thing is that when I removed the manual increased voltages and left them on auto, it *looks* stable now...
> This is with the newest beta bios which I got from MSI Support today, version E7D91IMS.*H23*
> I literally just updated BIOS, tried XMP first, it was unstable after 5 minutes.. then increased voltages and lowered timings which was unstable.. then removed manual voltages and now for some reason its stable ?! ***.
> Essentially, it's just XMP enabled with tightened timings and its more stable.. maybe thanks to increased tREFi ? Default is around 7000, now its 111111, this is the only timing thats loose-r.
> What does tREFi affect in general ? Any affect on gaming ?
> 
> View attachment 2592505


Trefi could help in latency, but be careful, too high trefi needs active cooling on dimms.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> Trefi could help in latency, but be careful, too high trefi needs active cooling on dimms.


What is considered too high ?
111111 looks high but I am an amateur


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> What is considered too high ?
> 111111 looks high but I am an amateur


Above 65535 is considered high.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> Above 65535 is considered high.


And the higher it goes the more stable ram ? At least it seems like it so far to me


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> And the higher it goes the more stable ram ? At least it seems like it so far to me


Nope, higher could make some issues. When all your other timings are set, you can raise trefi.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> Nope, higher could make some issues. When all your other timings are set, you can raise trefi.


Then it makes no sense to me that the ram is now more stable with changed timings than before with default xmp timings
maybe Memory learning stabilized it ?


----------



## energie80

This happened to me before, tightened timings were stable while xmp don’t


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Then it makes no sense to me that the ram is now more stable with changed timings than before with default xmp timings
> maybe Memory learning stabilized it ?


Yes,maybe it trained better. Also, your voltages much better now.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> Yes,maybe it trained better. Also, your voltages much better now.


Well after reboot and subsequent TM5 it threw errors after 20 minutes.. so now I lowered the tREFi to 65535 and well see.. but I am not optimistic, it seems the 'stability' is random between reboots.

Also..is it fine to 'randomly' change the values ? I have no idea if there is some relation between tREFi and other values..


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Well after reboot and subsequent TM5 it threw errors after 20 minutes.. so now I lowered the tREFi to 65535 and well see.. but I am not optimistic, it seems the 'stability' is random between reboots.
> 
> Also..is it fine to 'randomly' change the values ? I have no idea if there is some relation between tREFi and other values..


I would set the DRAM VDD/VDDQ to 1.45V for beginning. You can lower it later. Also, what's your RAM temp during stress test?
Just share a pic like this please:


----------



## xh43k

Temperature is around 50 during TM5 tests
It sometimes bugs out and jumps to 65 ocassionally in HWinfo though.

These are my current timings, I am absolutely clueless so they are just random at this point, I didnt touch much timings this time, just ones mentioned here: DDR5 Overclocking Guide: Make it Faster - Overclockers 









Current voltages, system is idle now:


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Temperature is around 50 during TM5 tests
> It sometimes bugs out and jumps to 65 ocassionally in HWinfo though.
> 
> These are my current timings, I am absolutely clueless so they are just random at this point, I didnt touch much timings this time, just ones mentioned here: DDR5 Overclocking Guide: Make it Faster - Overclockers
> View attachment 2592526
> 
> 
> Current voltages, system is idle now:
> View attachment 2592527


It's not bad for beginning. Just rise the dram voltages a little and do a TM5 pls.
The errors are coming above 50 Celsius. You should use active cooling on RAM. If you have no RAM cooler, just put a 12 CM fan on top of your VGA pointing the DIMMS and see the temps again.


----------



## acoustic

Without active cooling on the DIMMs, I wouldn't go beyond 32768 on tREFI to be safe from potential data corruption. Higher tREFI makes the sticks more temperature sensitive, as does tRFC.

I've noticed many people on A-Die not seeing much benefit from breaking the tRAS = tRP + 12 rule. Might help stability to raise your tRAS to 57 (current tRP of 45 + 12 = 57). I don't know why, as they aren't technically related, but when I brought tRFC down a ton on my M-Die kit, I noticed that tRAS below the rule of tRP + 12 was now showing performance improvements. I don't know why, but I'm not a DDR god who understands every single part of the DDR firing process.


----------



## Betroz

acoustic said:


> I don't know why, as they aren't technically related, but when I brought tRFC down a ton on my M-Die kit


Care to share your daily settings with your M-die kit?


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> Temperature is around 50 during TM5 tests
> It sometimes bugs out and jumps to 65 ocassionally in HWinfo though.
> 
> These are my current timings, I am absolutely clueless so they are just random at this point, I didnt touch much timings this time, just ones mentioned here: DDR5 Overclocking Guide: Make it Faster - Overclockers
> View attachment 2592526
> 
> 
> Current voltages, system is idle now:


Use this, perf will be better

7200 1.45v +- 0.02V

tCL - 34
tRCD - 42
tRP - 42
tRAS - 54

tRRD_S - 8
tRRD_L - 8
tFAW - 32
tRFC - 464
tRFCpb - 384
tREFI - 56000
tCWL - auto

tRDRD_SG - 16
tRDRD_DG - 8
tRDWR_SG - 20
tRDWR_DG - 20
tWRRD_SG - 60
tWRRD_DG - 48
tWRWR_SG - 24
tWRWR_DG - 8


----------



## acoustic

Betroz said:


> Care to share your daily settings with your M-die kit?


Sure! Just a heads up, my sticks are on water and don't see above 31c. Only things I have left to tweak when I feel like it, are tRTP down maybe to 11 or 10, and tRDWR to potentially 19. I was unable to POST at 19 for a bit, but this new BIOS made me change voltages a bit so it may be doable now. Haven't tested if 7200 works now, but my ChA on this Unify-X is defective and won't POST above 7200 even though ChB can POST at 7800.

Z690 Unify-X A91
13900K
Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32 w/ IceManCooler heatspreaders + 1DPC block @ 7000 30-39-39-28

CPU VDDQ TX : 1.365v
CPU VDD2 : 1.40v
CPU SA: 1.050v
DRAM VDD: 1.56v
DRAM VDDQ: 1.50v


----------



## Betroz

acoustic said:


> Sure! Just a heads up, my sticks are on water and don't see above 31c.


With a much lower tREFI those settings could work with a fan over the memory maybe. Thanks anyways


----------



## acoustic

Betroz said:


> With a much lower tREFI those settings could work with a fan over the memory maybe. Thanks anyways


Yep. tRFC might need to be raised slightly as well to reduce the temperature sensitivity. 320/240 is basically the floor on my sticks. I have a very good bin of M-Die, I think. I don't know anyone else doing 7000 with 30-39-39 primaries at only 1.56v DRAM VDD. Kingston gold!

If it wasn't for this bum ChA on my Unisex, I'd be trying for 7400. I ordered (and then cancelled) a Z790 APEX to try for it. Unfortunately, $800 isn't worth another 200-400Mhz on the memory, performance wise, despite how much fun as it'd be to try for it..


----------



## Betroz

acoustic said:


> Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32


Same as this : KF564C32RSK2-32 or is that A-die maybe?


----------



## acoustic

Yes, this is my kit Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory - Kingston Technology

Each stick identifies as KFS64C32-16 as each stick is 16GB. I don't know if any Kingston kits are A-Die yet.. they've seemed to have slowed down. They have a 7200 kit at 1.45v; I feel like that might be A-Die.


----------



## Betroz

acoustic said:


> Yes, this is my kit Kingston FURY™ Renegade DDR5 Memory - Kingston Technology


Do those have a temp sensor like G.Skill have?


----------



## acoustic

Betroz said:


> Do those have a temp sensor like G.Skill have?


Yep! All DDR5 kits have SPD Hub Temp, afaik. Kingston heatsinks are excellent too - best stock heatspreaders on the market, and they fully pad the stick unlike G.Skill.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> If you have no RAM cooler, just put a 12 CM fan on top of your VGA pointing the DIMMS and see the temps again.


That’s not gonna be possible unfortunately (picture, those are 180mm intake fans btw)
Btw still unstable, I’m going to test timings etc posted here recently.


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> Use this, perf will be better
> 
> 7200 1.45v +- 0.02V
> 
> tCL - 34
> tRCD - 42
> tRP - 42
> tRAS - 54
> 
> tRRD_S - 8
> tRRD_L - 8
> tFAW - 32
> tRFC - 464
> tRFCpb - 384
> tREFI - 56000
> tCWL - auto
> 
> tRDRD_SG - 16
> tRDRD_DG - 8
> tRDWR_SG - 20
> tRDWR_DG - 20
> tWRRD_SG - 60
> tWRRD_DG - 48
> tWRWR_SG - 24
> tWRWR_DG - 8


I'll try, but what I am looking for rn isn't performance, but actually getting them stable


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> That’s not gonna be possible unfortunately (picture, those are 180mm intake fans btw)
> Btw still unstable, I’m going to test timings etc posted here recently.
> View attachment 2592571


Torrent?
You need the flow from the top of the dimms or from the shorter side, like a tunnel between. Instability comes from heat for you I believe.


----------



## bscool

xh43k said:


> That’s not gonna be possible unfortunately (picture, those are 180mm intake fans btw)
> Btw still unstable, I’m going to test timings etc posted here recently.
> View attachment 2592571


Just guess but the way that is setup.

At times the ram is very warm from the heat from GPU and in say the morning when booting cold it is training different rtls and other settings. That will make it difficult to get stability consistently.

If you cant get 7200 to be stable try lower frequency and see if that helps. Like 6400, 6600 or 6800 and lower voltages.

Edit If you have Torrent with bottom fans pushing air up from bottom also making the ram even warmer under GPU loads.


----------



## xh43k

Alright.. the temps seem to be worse when I increase voltage (from 1.4 to 1.43) which is understandable I guess.. *error not even 5 minutes in*, with new timings from rulik006, which kind of decreased bandwidth of the ram it seems according to IMLC..
EDIT: When I decreased voltage back to 1.4 got error straight after 15 seconds so.. the timings from rulik006 are not stable whatsoever for me and the temps were not even 37 yet)













tibcsi0407 said:


> Torrent?


Yes, I guess I can look for the mini noctua fan or something.. idk, I thought torrent airflow should be enough for this RAM 



bscool said:


> Just guess but the way that is setup.
> 
> At times the ram is very warm from the heat from GPU and in say the morning when booting cold it is training different rtls and other settings. That will make it difficult to get stability consistently.
> 
> If you cant get 7200 to be stable try lower frequency and see if that helps. Like 6400, 6600 or 6800 and lower voltages.


I haven't even gamed today mostly, the GPU is not really heating anything up rn I'd say

Anyway, so keeping current timings and just lowering frequency and voltage ?
What voltage for 6400, 6600, 6800 or 7000 ?


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> Alright.. the temps seem to be worse when I increase voltage (from 1.4 to 1.43) which is understandable I guess.. *error not even 5 minutes in*, with new timings from rulik006, which kind of decreased bandwidth of the ram it seems according to IMLC..
> 
> View attachment 2592573
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I guess I can look for the mini noctua fan or something.. idk, I thought torrent airflow should be enough for this RAM
> 
> 
> I haven't even gamed today mostly, the GPU is not really heating anything up rn I'd say
> 
> Anyway, so keeping current timings and just lowering frequency and voltage ?
> What voltage for 6400, 6600, 6800 or 7000 ?


try 7000
Lower your VDD2 to 1.34v
CPU VDDQ TX 1.18v




Spoiler: 7000c34

























Spoiler: 7000c32 1.435v


----------



## bscool

@xh43k You will just have to test. Try keeping the same timings but lowering the clock to say 6600 and see if you still have issues. It is just trial and error. If 6600 works then try 6800.

Also with ddr5 if you start tuning it and you cant get it stable you need to turn off psu and clear cmos for 10-20 sec. A lot of times if it is unstable you wont be able to change anything to make it stable without doing that.


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> try 7000
> Lower your VDD2 to 1.34v
> CPU VDDQ TX 1.18v


Testing this right now, didnt change the timings yet just lowered frequency, ddr vdd2, cpu vddq so far 30 minutes no errors but temperatures are again 50 celsius on the stick closer to CPU while its 47 on the stick closer to front of the case (and thus cold air)

EDIT: Still stable after 2 and half hours, so far the most stable I had I think, going to try the timings next.


----------



## Dinnzy

Was there a guide posted somewhere in this thread on how to remove the skill ddr5 module heat sinks ?


----------



## HOODedDutchman

So what is everyone's opinions (or facts since I'm not in the know) on how A-die vs M-die works on 12th gen currently. I'm looking at g.skill 6400c32 M-Die or 6800c34 A-Die. If the A-Die is going to be a hassle to run on my 12700k I may just go with the M-Die but I know if I go with the A-Die it'll hold its own for a long time going forward. Not that 6400 is a slouch but you know how it is lol. Also the 6400 is on sale so the 6800 is 30% more expensive. I don't care too much about the price but more the likelihood that I'll get 6800 running stable on the 12700k. I've heard A-Die isn't quite as hard on the memory controller. Not sure about how legitimate that is. Thanks for any insight you guys can give me.

Edit: intent is to upgrade to 13700k at some point in the next few months.


----------



## bscool

HOODedDutchman said:


> So what is everyone's opinions (or facts since I'm not in the know) on how A-die vs M-die works on 12th gen currently. I'm looking at g.skill 6400c32 M-Die or 6800c34 A-Die. If the A-Die is going to be a hassle to run on my 12700k I may just go with the M-Die but I know if I go with the A-Die it'll hold its own for a long time going forward. Not that 6400 is a slouch but you know how it is lol. Also the 6400 is on sale so the 6800 is 30% more expensive. I don't care too much about the price but more the likelihood that I'll get 6800 running stable on the 12700k. I've heard A-Die isn't quite as hard on the memory controller. Not sure about how legitimate that is. Thanks for any insight you guys can give me.
> 
> Edit: intent is to upgrade to 13700k at some point in the next few months.


I think it depends on MB and bios support. Even z690 Apex was tough to get stable with A die until later bios releases.

What MB will you be using?


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> Was there a guide posted somewhere in this thread on how to remove the skill ddr5 module heat sinks ?


Take off the "led strip" first
Using my wife's hair dryer 
Heat up ic side to like 60c ( hot to take finger on the heatsink.) 
Then just "peel" it slow off. Then go for the backside.
Veey easy job.


----------



## Nizzen

Just had to try if it was stable enough with "brute force" voltages


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Take off the "led strip" first
> Using my wife's hair dryer
> Heat up ic side to like 60c ( hot to take finger on the heatsink.)
> Then just "peel" it slow off. Then go for the backside.
> Veey easy job.


Yep, I did the same with one of my automotive heat guns. Heated stick up, put a pair of gloves on, and it peels right off. The glue side (back-side) is a little bit harder.. used a nylon scraper to get it between the glue and heatspreader, and applied a little force.

Very simple. Longest part was cleaning the PCBs to make them spotless


----------



## HOODedDutchman

bscool said:


> I think it depends on MB and bios support. Even z690 Apex was tough to get stable with A die until later bios releases.
> 
> What MB will you be using?


Only using b660i gaming. Bios support not great but newer bios seems quite solid. I've had 6400c32 running on 6000c40 kit with tuned subtimings running pretty solid. I kinda want to just run A-Die and see what happens. Wouldn't be a big deal if I could just downclock it until I move to 13th gen but timings aren't as good at lower speeds vs m-die from what I've seen. Which is why it goes from 32-39-39 at 6400 to 34-45-45 at 6800. The 32 to 34 jump is expected but the 39 to 45 jump is a decent amount bigger. Although these timings don't mean much performance wise on Intel anyways it's still worth questioning I suppose. That or I could likely just stick with my current 6000c40 kit but it's only going to cost me about $60 to upgrade and this kit I have to the 6400c32. Does seem like kind of a side grade if I'm not going A-Die tho.


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> Spoiler: 7000c34
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2592580
> 
> View attachment 2592578


Alright.. with the frequency and voltage, not touching timings, it was running fine for 2.5 hours in TM5 extreme
When I changed the timings close to yours (it wont let me set up exactly yours, e.g. tWR lowest I can set is 48) it became unstable, orange error after a few minutes.
I've now shut down and booted up again without changing anything, running tm5 again but I dont think it will be stable since it already failed once.


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> Alright.. with the frequency and voltage, not touching timings, it was running fine for 2.5 hours in TM5 extreme
> When I changed the timings close to yours (it wont let me set up exactly yours, e.g. tWR lowest I can set is 48) it became unstable, orange error after a few minutes.
> I've now shut down and booted up again without changing anything, running tm5 again but I dont think it will be stable since it already failed once.
> 
> View attachment 2592614


Your dram voltage is too low 1.335v instead of 1.43v

DRAM voltage mode [link]
DRAM voltage 1.43v
DRAM VDDQ voltage 1.37v


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> Your dram voltage is too low 1.335v instead of 1.43v
> 
> DRAM voltage mode [link]
> DRAM voltage 1.43v
> DRAM VDDQ voltage 1.37v


Ah got it.. it auto changed it in bios
I had to first change VDDQ to 1.37 then it allowed me to set dram voltage to 1.43

going to test it

EDIT: So far... going to sleep, I'll let it run, I set 6 cycles to be performed so 3 more to go.
btw, how is my latency still 60+ bothers me a bit.


----------



## dumassnoob

does anyone have a guide for a beginner. I am afraid i may have done something wrong. I increased SA to 1.21 and lowered frequency from 7200 to 6400mhz. I am running 4 dimms. So far I am in test 7 of memtest run 1. If it somehow passes, what is my next step. if it fails, what is my next step? I am having trouble understanding how to proceed. Also, i don't want to tweak timings in the OS. too risky. how do i tweak timings in gigabyte bios? I saved a profile in spd setup screen, but don't know how to use it. any ideas? I am not trying for extreme overclocking. Just to get an acceptable stable speed out of 4 dimms for every day use


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> EDIT: So far... going to sleep, I'll let it run, I set 6 cycles to be performed so 3 more to go.
> btw, how is my latency still 60+ bothers me a bit.


Something heavy running on background


----------



## dumassnoob

dumassnoob said:


> does anyone have a guide for a beginner. I am afraid i may have done something wrong. I increased SA to 1.21 and lowered frequency from 7200 to 6400mhz. I am running 4 dimms. So far I am in test 7 of memtest run 1. If it somehow passes, what is my next step. if it fails, what is my next step? I am having trouble understanding how to proceed. Also, i don't want to tweak timings in the OS. too risky. how do i tweak timings in gigabyte bios? I saved a profile in spd setup screen, but don't know how to use it. any ideas? I am not trying for extreme overclocking. Just to get an acceptable stable speed out of 4 dimms for every day use


ugh... failed in pass 3 test 7... ****


----------



## QXE

Here we go again... DDR5-8600 CL34 Y-Cruncher 2.5B. I squeezed a lot out of this IMC, GG.


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> Something heavy running on background


Hmm, could be.. I didnt stop any processes and have steam discord etc running..
Is there some guide on how to optimize this ? Even when I quit everything its still the same.
e.g. disabling memory integrity etc.. what can help it ? And is there real benefit ?
EDIT: I disabled memory integrity, suspended bitlocker and rebooted in to safe mode.. no difference, can't get lower than 60ns
EDIT2: Disabling Virtual Machine Platform brought the latency down to 53 in AIDA64, but still 60 in Intel MLC..











---
Btw, seems stable enough ? Are 6 cycles sufficient ?

Considering this, is there a way on how to now make 7200 stable ? Or could be simply out of the capability of my IMC/MB/Modules themselves ?










Btw.. any reason why it says single channel when cpuz shows 4 ?











dumassnoob said:


> ugh... failed in pass 3 test 7... ****


I think it's safe to say that with 4 dimms you will have huge problems running at 6400


----------



## DarkEmpire

xh43k said:


> Hmm, could be.. I didnt stop any processes and have steam discord etc running..
> Is there some guide on how to optimize this ? Even when I quit everything its still the same.
> e.g. disabling memory integrity etc.. what can help it ? And is there real benefit ?
> EDIT: I disabled memory integrity, suspended bitlocker and rebooted in to safe mode.. no difference, can't get lower than 60ns
> EDIT2: Disabling Virtual Machine Platform brought the latency down to 53 in AIDA64, but still 60 in Intel MLC..
> View attachment 2592695
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Btw, seems stable enough ? Are 6 cycles sufficient ?
> 
> Considering this, is there a way on how to now make 7200 stable ? Or could be simply out of the capability of my IMC/MB/Modules themselves ?
> 
> View attachment 2592681
> 
> 
> Btw.. any reason why it says single channel when cpuz shows 4 ?
> View attachment 2592682
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's safe to say that with 4 dimms you will have huge problems running at 6400


are your a-die not stable over 7000?


----------



## Sheyster

xh43k said:


> View attachment 2592695


This is looking much better than your original AIDA64 run. For 7200 you'll either need to increase VDD/VDDQ a bit or loosen timings, or a combination of both. Might also need to adjust SA and IMC voltages. First try leaving SA on Auto and increase IMC a bit if you can't stabilize it using VDD and VDDQ.


----------



## xh43k

Sheyster said:


> This is looking much better than your original AIDA64 run. For 7200 you'll either need to increase VDD/VDDQ a bit or loosen timings, or a combination of both. Might also need to adjust SA and IMC voltages. First try leaving SA on Auto and increase IMC a bit if you can't stabilize it using VDD and VDDQ.


unfortunately after reboot it’s again not stable
I don’t see possibility to change IMC voltage in MSI bios, where it would be ?

idk I guess I’ll never get even 7000 stable and thus 7200 might be impossible for me

EDIT:

Shut down
CMOS Reset
Loaded freq/timings back
left voltages on Auto
removed CPU OC

now Asrock timing configurator shows correct channels and ram ratio for some reason.. weird

Running TM5 again.. we'll see.

Btw, I might be dumb or what but I cant find any way on how to make Asrock Advanced Timing Configuration or MemTweakIt actually change the values directly from OS.. might be faster than rebooting every time ? Or it's not possible ? How do you guys do it.


----------



## robalm

xh43k said:


> Hmm, could be.. I didnt stop any processes and have steam discord etc running..
> Is there some guide on how to optimize this ? Even when I quit everything its still the same.
> e.g. disabling memory integrity etc.. what can help it ? And is there real benefit ?
> EDIT: I disabled memory integrity, suspended bitlocker and rebooted in to safe mode.. no difference, can't get lower than 60ns
> EDIT2: Disabling Virtual Machine Platform brought the latency down to 53 in AIDA64, but still 60 in Intel MLC..
> View attachment 2592695
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Btw, seems stable enough ? Are 6 cycles sufficient ?
> 
> Considering this, is there a way on how to now make 7200 stable ? Or could be simply out of the capability of my IMC/MB/Modules themselves ?
> 
> View attachment 2592681
> 
> 
> Btw.. any reason why it says single channel when cpuz shows 4 ?
> View attachment 2592682
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's safe to say that with 4 dimms you will have huge problems running at 6400


It shows single channel becose of windows 11 stupid security.
You need to spend a few h to fix all trash on windows 11. 
Turn off all security permanent, but it's not easy windows 11 will fight back and try to turn it back with updates.
Then you need to turn off windows update (permanent) or your pc can just random restart even if you tick "ask before restart".
So many times it happend to me, so i don't know if it was a problem or just windows update.
In short windows 11 is a mess, and you need to spend time to fix it.


----------



## xh43k

deleted


----------



## Latchback

Deleted


----------



## DarkEmpire

my 7200 xmp is stable only CPU Vcore 1.4v+, it makes no sense to change timings, vdd, vddq, sa, cpu vddq, cpu vdd2 voltages
i hope have better luck with 13th cpu


----------



## xh43k

I literally can’t find some proper information about which timings to leave for auto and which make sense tweaking ? Is there something like this ?
I am having hard time applying any timings from posts since I don’t know which are auto and which manual 

Edit, managed to piece if together from past 30 pages or so 

So basically, this is what I am setting right now, rest is Auto:

7000 MHz
tCL - 34 (auto - default)
tRCD - 42
tRCDW - 42 (?)
tRP - 42
tRAS - 54

tRRD_S - 8
tRRD_L - 8
tRFC2 - 464
tRFCpb - 384
tREFI - 56000
tFAW - 32
tCWL - 32

tRDRD_SG - 16
tRDRD_DG - 8
tRDWR_SG - 20
tRDWR_DG - 20
tWRRD_SG - 60
tWRRD_DG - 48
tWRWR_SG - 24
tWRWR_DG - 8

We'll see how stable is this with auto voltages tonight I guess.
Auto voltages put it as follows:
CPU VDDQ TX ~1.4V
CPU VDD2 ~1.4V
CPU SA ~1.2V
CPU AUX ~1.8V
DRAM VDD ~1.410V
DRAM VDDQ ~1.410V
DRAM VPP ~1.81V

Anything else important ?


----------



## H3adex

next step ? (from 6400mdie cl32-40-40-102 to 6800mdie cl32-40-40-28)
- its 4000% karhu and 3cycle anta777 testmem stable -

aida say's: 54.6ns - 54.9ns


----------



## DanGleeballs

H3adex said:


> next step ? (from 6400mdie cl32-40-40-102 to 6800mdie cl32-40-40-28)
> - its 4000% karhu and 3cycle anta777 testmem stable -
> 
> aida say's: 54.6ns - 54.9ns


If this is a gaming PC then play some games and what you normally use your PC for.
You'll soon find out if it's stable or not.


----------



## Nizzen

H3adex said:


> next step ? (from 6400mdie cl32-40-40-102 to 6800mdie cl32-40-40-28)
> - its 4000% karhu and 3cycle anta777 testmem stable -
> 
> aida say's: 54.6ns - 54.9ns


BF 2042 128 player is harder than karhu


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

xh43k said:


> alright but what can average customer do to make this kit at least run 7000MHZ because even though I lowered it from 7200 to 7000 I still get slow 102000 copy and 67 latency
> 
> if I lower it to 6800 could it get better ?
> 
> I just would prefer everything to work out if the box though


To me, this sounds like your tREFi is too low.

If you want to lower latency, set tREFi to 65535 and work upwards from there. Higher tREFi = lower latency. I know that doesn't sound right, but i promise you it is. tREFi has a massive impact on DDR5 latency. Max tREFi value is 262143 but requires thermals to be kept in check, but is still often doable on air cooling

Also worth it to have tREFIx9 set to 255

You also need to make sure that High DRAM Voltage mode is enabled. XMP isn't going to work without this enabled, since the XMP voltage on the 7000mhz+ A-Die kits are all 1.45v. You cant go over 1.43 volts with it disabled. Enable it.

Make sure you memory controller voltage is set to around 1.34 - 1.3625

Also set System Agent Voltage to 1.20

If you do all this and still cant run XMP or still have high latency, then im not sure what else to suggest


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

xh43k said:


> Oh no.. I don't have time for this, I have full time job, 1.5yo son and in the spare time I want to spend it gaming not tinkering with memory subtimings, I just expected XMP to work straight away, thus why I invested tad more in to better memory kit.. seems it was worthless investment... same as more expensive MB.
> Should've gone with cheapest MB and some 6000 MHz memory kit and call it a day.
> Disappointed.. after many years of plug and play they expect customers to tweak their products.
> Sad times.


my dude it takes maybe 30 minutes or less to stabilize your DDR5 if you have a good memory kit and good motherboard like you say you do. its not difficult.

i was able to find stability at 8,000mhz in less than 15 minutes. just relax, and give it a go. i promise its worth it


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Nizzen said:


> BF 2042 128 player is harder than karhu


god dang aint that the truth


----------



## chibi

May I ask for help to stabilize 8000 with 13900k and apex z790? My ram are a die 7200.

I’ve set xmp 1
Changed speed to 8000
Vdd 1.6
Vddq 1.6
Tx/mc 1.45
SA 1.25

Currently on air with fan. Want to get stable before I put them under water. Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

chibi said:


> May I ask for help to stabilize 8000 with 13900k and apex z790? My ram are a die 7200.
> 
> I’ve set xmp 1
> Changed speed to 8000
> Vdd 1.6
> Vddq 1.6
> Tx/mc 1.45
> SA 1.25
> 
> Currently on air with fan. Want to get stable before I put them under water. Thanks


We need all info. Asus memtweakit, full hwinfo under load.


----------



## xh43k

xh43k said:


> I literally can’t find some proper information about which timings to leave for auto and which make sense tweaking ? Is there something like this ?
> I am having hard time applying any timings from posts since I don’t know which are auto and which manual
> 
> Edit, managed to piece if together from past 30 pages or so
> 
> So basically, this is what I am setting right now, rest is Auto:
> 
> 7000 MHz
> tCL - 34 (auto - default)
> tRCD - 42
> tRCDW - 42 (?)
> tRP - 42
> tRAS - 54
> 
> tRRD_S - 8
> tRRD_L - 8
> tRFC2 - 464
> tRFCpb - 384
> tREFI - 56000
> tFAW - 32
> tCWL - 32
> 
> tRDRD_SG - 16
> tRDRD_DG - 8
> tRDWR_SG - 20
> tRDWR_DG - 20
> tWRRD_SG - 60
> tWRRD_DG - 48
> tWRWR_SG - 24
> tWRWR_DG - 8
> 
> We'll see how stable is this with auto voltages tonight I guess.
> Auto voltages put it as follows:
> CPU VDDQ TX ~1.4V
> CPU VDD2 ~1.4V
> CPU SA ~1.2V
> CPU AUX ~1.8V
> DRAM VDD ~1.410V
> DRAM VDDQ ~1.410V
> DRAM VPP ~1.81V
> 
> Anything else important ?
> 
> View attachment 2592760


Well.. it seems stable ? But TM5 stopped doing its thing though.. time keeps adding but it's doing literally nothing at 6th cycle, happened to any of you ?











fitnessgrampacertest said:


> If you do all this and still cant run XMP or still have high latency, then im not sure what else to suggest


I used timings as above, voltages are auto as mentioned in my post together with voltages list currently, what would be the next step since it seems stable as it is at 7000 MHz now ?
I have a gut feeling that if I increase voltage to 1.45 it will become unstable due to temps, they reach 53 now on the hottest stick closer to the CPU.
As for SA Voltage, its already at 1.2 with Auto as you can see in my post though.
btw why they would use 1.4V on XMP profile if it actually needs 1.45 to be stable ?


----------



## chibi

Nizzen said:


> We need all info. Asus memtweakit, full hwinfo under load.


bsod with those settings after 10 seconds HCI memtest. I’m on latest 0078 bios as well.


----------



## tibcsi0407

chibi said:


> bsod with those settings after 10 seconds HCI memtest. I’m on latest 0078 bios as well.


Don't set those high ram voltages. 1.5V should be enough.


----------



## xh43k

Seems increasing RAM voltage to 1.43 helps a bit in stabilizing 7200 MHz, so far no errors in 20 mins, we'll see.. but I had to increase tRCD, tRP, tRAS timings compared to 7000 because I got memory OC failed, from 42->45 (default-xmp) and 54-57 respectively, but I also now increased tREFI from 56000 to 65535.
Ignore test of aida and latency because I had steam/discord/edge/hwinfo running in background, should be 54 or less I guess, because I got 54 on 7000 (albeit with lower tRCD, tRP, tRAS timings)

If this will start erroring, what would be the next step ? 1.45 voltage ? Also, when I change DRAM voltage it automatically changes DRAM VDDQ as well, should I be lowering that or keep it the same ?

Thanks for your time ! At least I now have a baseline that seems stable for over 8 hours of different TM5 extreme tests @7000 MHz.. 7200 is just extra for me at this point (although I paid for it -.- .. but 'only' 347€.. now it's past 447€ on the same eshop)

EDIT: Error after 33 minutes (#2)


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Seems increasing RAM voltage to 1.43 helps a bit in stabilizing 7200 MHz, so far no errors in 20 mins, we'll see.. but I had to increase tRCD, tRP, tRAS timings compared to 7000 because I got memory OC failed, from 42->45 (default-xmp) and 54-57 respectively, but I also now increased tREFI from 56000 to 65535.
> Ignore test of aida and latency because I had steam/discord/edge/hwinfo running in background, should be 54 or less I guess, because I got 54 on 7000 (albeit with lower tRCD, tRP, tRAS timings)
> 
> If this will start erroring, what would be the next step ? 1.45 voltage ? Also, when I change DRAM voltage it automatically changes DRAM VDDQ as well, should I be lowering that or keep it the same ?
> 
> Thanks for your time ! At least I now have a baseline that seems stable for over 8 hours of different TM5 extreme tests @7000 MHz.. 7200 is just extra for me at this point (although I paid for it -.- .. but 'only' 347€.. now it's past 447€ on the same eshop)
> 
> EDIT: Error after 33 minutes
> 
> View attachment 2592932


You have to cool those sticks. Above 50 Celsius you can expect issues.


----------



## Carillo

chibi said:


> May I ask for help to stabilize 8000 with 13900k and apex z790? My ram are a die 7200.
> 
> I’ve set xmp 1
> Changed speed to 8000
> Vdd 1.6
> Vddq 1.6
> Tx/mc 1.45
> SA 1.25
> 
> Currently on air with fan. Want to get stable before I put them under water. Thanks


1.6VDD stable on AIR is not possible unless extremely well binned sticks. 8000 c38 should be possible around 1.45-1.52 VDD. Leave SA on auto , and TX 1.400. Mc 1.45 is fine

*EDIT: DO NOT SET XMP, Use manual *


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> Mc 1.45 is fine


That won't degrade the memory controller?


----------



## Carillo

Betroz said:


> That won't degrade the memory controller?


No idea. Don’t plan to keep the cpu that long 😅


----------



## Betroz

Carillo said:


> No idea. Don’t plan to keep the cpu that long 😅


An honest opinion, me like 
Well I do plan on keeping mine. I'll wait to see if @Falkentyne knows anything about this. As far as I have read online so far, 1.35v or under 1.40v.


----------



## xh43k

tibcsi0407 said:


> You have to cool those sticks. Above 50 Celsius you can expect issues.


Well even 7000 is around 52 Celsius but seems stable, now after around 9 hours of tm5 extreme tests between reboots

7200 I can’t get even close to this stability.. errors after 30-40 minutes, last error was #2


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> Well even 7000 is around 52 Celsius but seems stable, now after around 9 hours of tm5 extreme tests between reboots
> 
> 7200 I can’t get even close to this stability.. errors after 30-40 minutes, last error was #2


Seems like motherboard can't handle 7200, despite MSI is claiming 7200 
last thing you can try is swap memory in slots and clean memory pads with alcohol, i know two cases when it helped

Also, some advices about increasing VDDQ TX is naive and dumb a.k.a buildzoid style
Because increasing CPU TX causing more errors, thats why famous "overclocker" Buildzoid couldn't get over 7000 stable with 13gen and z790 gigabyte boards. lmao
Only when he got EVGA Z790 dark for free, finally he managed to reach 7200+

Example: 7200 on garbage EVGA Z690 Classified is not possible with 12 gen, not matter what voltages you try to apply, just bad board
in other hand much stronger Gigabyte Z690 Master, which can do 7200+


Spoiler


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> Seems like motherboard can't handle 7200, despite MSI is claiming 7200
> last thing you can try is swap memory in slots and clean memory pads with alcohol, i know two cases when it helped
> 
> Also, some advices about increasing VDDQ TX is naive and dumb a.k.a buildzoid style
> Because increasing CPU TX causing more errors, thats why famous "overclocker" Buildzoid couldn't get over 7000 stable with 13gen and z790 gigabyte boards. lmao
> Only when he got EVGA Z790 dark for free, finally he managed to reach 7200+
> 
> Example: 7200 on garbage EVGA Z690 Classified is not possible with 12 gen, not matter what voltages you try to apply, just bad board
> in other hand much stronger Gigabyte Z690 Master, which can do 7200+
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2592948
> 
> View attachment 2592947


Interesting, with these (Auto) voltages 7000 seems stable


CPU VDDQ TX ~1.4V
CPU VDD2 ~1.4V
CPU SA ~1.2V
CPU AUX ~1.8V
DRAM VDD ~1.410V
DRAM VDDQ ~1.410V
DRAM VPP ~1.81V

but 7200 not
could be that I actually need to lower some voltage ?
Also I can try using alcohol to clean contacts but I don’t think that would be it since if there was contact problem 7000wouldnt be stable neither


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> Interesting, with these (Auto) voltages 7000 seems stable
> 
> CPU VDDQ TX ~1.4V
> CPU VDD2 ~1.4V
> 
> but 7200 not
> could be that I actually need to lower some voltage ?
> Also I can try using alcohol to clean contacts but I don’t think that would be it since if there was contact problem 7000wouldnt be stable neither


7200 will not work judging by the results. Forget about this
And you dont need to run 9 hours of TM5 - its useless. Better to use 3 differents tests
CPU VDDQ TX between 1.15 - 1.25v
CPU VDD2 1.30 - 1.35v


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> 7200 will not work judging by the results. Forget about this
> And you dont need to run 9 hours of TM5 - its useless. Better to use 3 differents tests
> CPU VDDQ TX between 1.15 - 1.25v
> CPU VDD2 1.30 - 1.35v


Yeah it would seem that 7000 is the limit for my imc/board
I tried the lower voltages you mentioned but then 7000 was unstable
As for the testing, what is the recommendation ? Which test and for how long is guaranteed stability ?


----------



## thebski

xh43k said:


> Yeah it would seem that 7000 is the limit for my imc/board
> I tried the lower voltages you mentioned but then 7000 was unstable
> As for the testing, what is the recommendation ? Which test and for how long is guaranteed stability ?


There is no one test for guaranteed stability. What do you do with your computer? If you passed hours and hours of stress testing on 7000 why not just use the computer and see what happens?


----------



## xh43k

thebski said:


> There is no one test for guaranteed stability. What do you do with your computer? If you passed hours and hours of stress testing on 7000 why not just use the computer and see what happens?


True.. but hours and hours are also not guaranteed I'd say since I let it run for 9 cycles which took around 4.5 hours or so when I left home today and came back to 2 errors, numbers 2 and 12 
But this is probably related to tREFI which I increased to 65535, going back to 56000 which was stable for 9+ hours.


----------



## thebski

xh43k said:


> True.. but hours and hours are also not guaranteed I'd say since I let it run for 9 cycles which took around 4.5 hours or so when I left home today and came back to 2 errors, numbers 2 and 12
> But this is probably related to tREFI which I increased to 65535, going back to 56000 which was stable for 9+ hours.


I will personally not be stress testing anything for 9+ hours. That's beyond stable enough to drive it and see what happens.


----------



## xh43k

Alright then this would be my final I guess









Compared to pre-timings change, weird that L2 cache performed better before changing timings


----------



## rulik006

xh43k said:


> Alright then this would be my final I guess
> View attachment 2593005
> 
> 
> Compared to pre-timings change, weird that L2 cache performed better before changing timings
> View attachment 2593006


they can work 7000 32-40-40-52 with 1.45v


----------



## xh43k

rulik006 said:


> they can work 7000 32-40-40-52 with 1.45v


tested this and errors straight away in tm5 so not working for meI think I reached what they can do with my HW.


----------



## chibi

Carillo said:


> 1.6VDD stable on AIR is not possible unless extremely well binned sticks. 8000 c38 should be possible around 1.45-1.52 VDD. Leave SA on auto , and TX 1.400. Mc 1.45 is fine
> 
> *EDIT: DO NOT SET XMP, Use manual *


Manual tune, tried those settings with SA auto and vdd from 1.45 to 1.52 and cannot train to windows. Tx and Mc set as you instructed. Qcode scrolling non stop. Will try adjusting SA later this evening.


----------



## Carillo

chibi said:


> Manual tune, tried those settings with SA auto and vdd from 1.45 to 1.52 and cannot train to windows. Tx and Mc set as you instructed. Qcode scrolling non stop. Will try adjusting SA later this evening.


Thrust me. It will work. Worst you do with DDR5 is keep adjusting, it will only make things worse.... Start fresh with clear cmos and battery pulled for 30 min. Then use those settings.


----------



## Nizzen

Haven't seen anyone post G.skill 8000 with the XMP tweaked option in Apex z790 bios. This XMP tweaked is in the same menu as the XMP 1 and 2.
100% stock bios run with 8000 xmp tweaked enabled.
Edit: 0078 bios
Pretty nice for plug and play gamers @Betroz 😘


----------



## Forsaken1

Nizzen said:


> Haven't seen anyone post G.skill 8000 with the XMP tweaked option in Apex z790 bios. This XMP tweaked is in the same menu as the XMP 1 and 2.
> 100% stock bios run with 8000 xmp tweaked enabled.
> Edit: 0078 bios
> Pretty nice for plug and play gamers @Betroz 😘
> View attachment 2593034


Ask Carrillo.He has a set.I have g skill 7200 & TG 7800……..& others.


----------



## Carillo

Forsaken1 said:


> Ask Carrillo.He has a set.I have g skill 7200 & TG 7800……..


I do not do XMP. 😂


----------



## dumassnoob

Carillo said:


> Thrust me. It will work. Worst you do with DDR5 is keep adjusting, it will only make things worse....* Start fresh with clear cmos and battery pulled for 30 min. *Then use those settings.


it only take less than a minute to clear cmos if you know what you are doing

1. pull power plug
2. press and hold the power button for 10-30 seconds to drain the residual current from the motherboard
3. pull battery
4. press cmos button and hold 10-30 seconds (or use jumper 10-30 seconds)

This will reset your bios every time 100 percent. you must always first drain residual current from the system.


----------



## Nizzen

Forsaken1 said:


> Ask Carrillo.He has a set.I have g skill 7200 & TG 7800……..& others.


I did XMP Tweaked because I was bored LOL
Sorry 
Small test before good night...

Looks stable, even it's pretty hot. Silent fan is cooling them.


----------



## Carillo

dumassnoob said:


> it only take less than a minute to clear cmos if you know what you are doing
> 
> 1. pull power plug
> 2. press and hold the power button for 10-30 seconds to drain the residual current from the motherboard
> 3. pull battery
> 4. press cmos button and hold 10-30 seconds (or use jumper 10-30 seconds)
> 
> This will reset your bios every time 100 percent. you must always first drain residual current from the system.


I don´t know why you are quoting me for those instructions


----------



## Forsaken1

I see a lot of good ram mhz & fun Aidia scores.How do all competents work together?

Official bios F22.No magic(ambient air 21c)Tachyon.24/7 settings.










I scored 18 722 in Port Royal


Intel Core i5-13600K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## Carillo

Forsaken1 said:


> I see a lot of good ram mhz & fun Aidia scores.How do all competents work together?
> 
> Official bios F22.No magic(ambient air 21c)Tachyon.24/7 settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 18 722 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i5-13600K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


I have stoped using PR since they cant seem to fix the memory bug that gives everyone with 4090 Liquid Helium scores. Broken benchmark  Just OC memory over the edge of stability , and boom you are the next Vince Kingpin


----------



## Forsaken1

Carillo said:


> I have stoped using PR since they cant seem to fix the memory bug that gives everyone with 4090 Liquid Helium scores. Broken benchmark  Just OC memory over the edge of stability , and boom you are the next Vince Kingpin


Unaware of that, thanks.7900 xtx is no match either way for 4090 except a few situations……where 7900 xtx is king on early drivers.BFV to name 1.AMD always picks up xx% over time.

Kingpin is outta of a job……


----------



## gambit07

Just picked up team force (hynix) ddr5 7200 4x16gb, running on a Asus Z690 Formula with a new 13900k. XMP will not boot, anyone know if hynix a die/13900k has the same stability issues with 4 sticks that the older hynix ddr5 modules with the 12900k had? I was hoping not but seems to be the case. Any tips for getting 4 sticks to 7200 on hynix a die with the 13900k?


----------



## Nizzen

gambit07 said:


> Just picked up team force (hynix) ddr5 7200 4x16gb, running on a Asus Z690 Formula with a new 13900k. XMP will not boot, anyone know if hynix a die/13900k has the same stability issues with 4 sticks that the older hynix ddr5 modules with the 12900k had? I was hoping not but seems to be the case. Any tips for getting 4 sticks to 7200 on hynix a die with the 13900k?


Hav you seen a 4x 7200xmp kit?
It's a good reason you haven't seen it 
4x6000c30 xmp (2x 6000c30 kits) is possible but not guaranteed. Better buy 2x 32GB 6000c30 kit. More easy to cool and to get stable.


----------



## gambit07

Nizzen said:


> Hav you seen a 4x 7200xmp kit?
> It's a good reason you haven't seen it
> 4x6000c30 xmp (2x 6000c30 kits) is possible but not guaranteed. Better buy 2x 32GB 6000c30 kit. More easy to cool and to get stable.


I didn't see it said only 2x16 but I guess that makes sense. And there aren't any 2x32 7000+ sets out yet?


----------



## Nizzen

gambit07 said:


> I didn't see it said only 2x16 but I guess that makes sense. And there aren't any 2x32 7000+ sets out yet?


6400c32 is the fastest today with 2x32GB


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

rulik006 said:


> 7200 will not work judging by the results. Forget about this
> And you dont need to run 9 hours of TM5 - its useless. Better to use 3 differents tests
> CPU VDDQ TX between 1.15 - 1.25v
> CPU VDD2 1.30 - 1.35v


Try 1.45 VDD and 1.45 VDDQ @ 7200mhz

In all of my experience on A-Die, not once have i ever been able to run 7200 or higher with anything less than 1.45


----------



## Thunderclap

gambit07 said:


> I didn't see it said only 2x16 but I guess that makes sense. And there aren't any 2x32 7000+ sets out yet?


G.SKILL has 2x32GB kits at 7000/7200/7400 in the works, no idea when they'll release them though. I was hoping they would show them off at CES but that doesn't seem the case. So yeah, your best bet atm is either the 6000CL30 or 6400CL32 kits.


----------



## chibi

Carillo said:


> Thrust me. It will work. Worst you do with DDR5 is keep adjusting, it will only make things worse.... Start fresh with clear cmos and battery pulled for 30 min. Then use those settings.


Alright, so I cleared cmos, removed the cover plate and battery for an hour. Went in full manual tune and now it does not cycle training. I can run hci memtest and error out without bsod. Some progress!

SA - Auto (~1.3)
VDD/Q - 1.5v
TX 1.4
MC 1.45

Tweak Mode - Auto (what's the difference between 1 and 2?)

Primary
Cas 38
Ras to Cas - 47
Ras to Cas Delay WR - 47 (how do I set this timing? never seen it before in previous intel cpus. I just set the same as above for now)
Ras Pre - 47
Ras Act - 105
CMD - 2N

Secondary and Third all set to auto


----------



## xh43k

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Try 1.45 VDD and 1.45 VDDQ @ 7200mhz
> 
> In all of my experience on A-Die, not once have i ever been able to run 7200 or higher with anything less than 1.45


VDD and VDDQ of the DRAM not the CPU, correct ?
Why would they advertise and sell them with 1.4V then is beyond me..


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> VDD and VDDQ of the DRAM not the CPU, correct ?
> Why would they advertise and sell them with 1.4V then is beyond me..


With strong IMC and board the 1.4V should be enough. Even for higher speeds should be enough with those voltages if you have optimal IMC voltages and strong IMC with good board.
The problem is that you are trying to get info from here and there and copy values from here and there. You need to play with the Voltages first on XMP timings to find a stability for 7200, then you can tweak the timings. It's a lot of work when you are on the edge.


----------



## dumassnoob

gambit07 said:


> Just picked up team force (hynix) ddr5 7200 4x16gb, running on a Asus Z690 Formula with a new 13900k. XMP will not boot, anyone know if hynix a die/13900k has the same stability issues with 4 sticks that the older hynix ddr5 modules with the 12900k had? I was hoping not but seems to be the case. Any tips for getting 4 sticks to 7200 on hynix a die with the 13900k?


Yes, it does. I got 2 of the same kit. I got it close to stable at 5600 and again at 6400 but no dice. right now just running it at 4533mhz. sucks.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Haven't seen anyone post G.skill 8000 with the XMP tweaked option in Apex z790 bios. This XMP tweaked is in the same menu as the XMP 1 and 2.
> 100% stock bios run with 8000 xmp tweaked enabled.
> Edit: 0078 bios
> Pretty nice for plug and play gamers @Betroz 😘


It's just that the G.Skill 8000 kit is *2,8 times more expensive* than the kit I have ordered...
The one I have on it's way is : Kingston Fury Renegade Silver (KF564C32RSK2-32)
If I can get 7200 stable with tight timings, it's good enough for me. Maybe I will buy a better kit later on, but I got a feeling my IMC will limit me anyways


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Betroz said:


> It's just that the G.Skill 8000 kit is *2,8 times more expensive* than the kit I have ordered...
> The one I have on it's way is : Kingston Fury Renegade Silver (KF564C32RSK2-32)
> If I can get 7200 stable with tight timings, it's good enough for me. Maybe I will buy a better kit later on, but I got a feeling my IMC will limit me anyways



I bought the 7800 kit and it's running pretty close to his with his settings. I just put bitspower heatsinks on them yesterday. I used acetone to remove the heatsinks so not to rip off a chip which I've done before.


----------



## chibi

Update on my progress, I changed to bigger fan and kept my temps around 43 degrees. This helped a lot more no longer errors with loose timing. I will go ahead and put the waterblock on this kit and move towards stabilizing and tightening timings.

For ASUS boards, how do you set Ras to Cas Delay (tRCD WR)? I never seen it before in previous intel cpus. I just set the same as Ras to Cas (tRCD). Is there a rule for this timing?


----------



## robalm

Need a fan over my ram to use higher voltage.
I have seen people use something like a flexible pc fan holder. 
I have found this and it looks perfect for me (with a 120mm fan).








Spotswood Computer Cases, LLC


New flexible fan holder!




www.facebook.com




Anyone know where i can find something like that? Or some mod i can make mayself?


----------



## chibi

robalm said:


> Need a fan over my ram to use higher voltage.
> I have seen people use something like a flexible pc fan holder.
> I have found this and it looks perfect for me (with a 120mm fan).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spotswood Computer Cases, LLC
> 
> 
> New flexible fan holder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know where i can find something like that? Or some mod i can make mayself?


Dimastech FlexFan 120 is most likely what you're looking for.









DimasTech® FlexFan120 Black V2.0 (BT095)


New Version 2.0 of the comfortable Pc Dimastech FlexFan to support and move your fan 120x120 without interfering disassembly fast Components hardware.The newest DimasTech FlexFan enable your fans to be suspended above the Components H




modmymods.com


----------



## delirious1

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I bought the 7800 kit and it's running pretty close to his with his settings. I just put bitspower heatsinks on them yesterday. I used acetone to remove the heatsinks so not to rip off a chip which I've done before.
> 
> View attachment 2593120
> 
> 
> View attachment 2593121


I have yet to get my 7800 stable at XMP or manual. @8000, I see higher vdd and vddq voltages than I have been using. I see you also loosened timings. I'll try some of that. what did you end up with as VSA and cpu VDDQ? is 1.5 correct for cpu VDDQ?

what sort of settings for 7800?


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

xh43k said:


> VDD and VDDQ of the DRAM not the CPU, correct ?
> Why would they advertise and sell them with 1.4V then is beyond me..


Correct, DRAM VDD & VDDQ, Not CPU.

I dont understand why they set the XMP voltage to 1.4 either. Its never been enough for me


----------



## Nizzen

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> Correct, DRAM VDD & VDDQ, Not CPU.
> 
> I dont understand why they set the XMP voltage to 1.4 either. Its never been enough for me


I tested one g.skill 7600 kit. This was 100% stable with xmp settings. Even with xmp tweaked settings on Asus Apex with 1.4v. Luck or not, I don't know.
Testing 8000 kit now. 100% stable with xmp settings.
Most of the time there is a headroom for "voltage" on kits, so undervoltage often possible.
Allways start with stock cpu, and enough aircooling direct on the dimms. Then remember to disable fastboot to train the memory.
Flush the bios is also important. Take out bios battery for a while.

This is the way to sucsess


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Nizzen said:


> I tested one g.skill 7600 kit. This was 100% stable with xmp settings. Even with xmp tweaked settings on Asus Apex with 1.4v. Luck or not, I don't know.
> Testing 8000 kit now. 100% stable with xmp settings.


Very interesting. Very interesting indeed.


----------



## delirious1

Nizzen said:


> I tested one g.skill 7600 kit. This was 100% stable with xmp settings. Even with xmp tweaked settings on Asus Apex with 1.4v. Luck or not, I don't know.
> Testing 8000 kit now. 100% stable with xmp settings.
> Most of the time there is a headroom for "voltage" on kits, so undervoltage often possible.
> Allways start with stock cpu, and enough aircooling direct on the dimms. Then remember to disable fastboot to train the memory.
> Flush the bios is also important. Take out bios battery for a while.
> 
> This is the way to sucsess


Same. Tried a 7600 kit at 1.4v and a 7800 kit downclocked to 1.4v. Both pass.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

delirious1 said:


> I have yet to get my 7800 stable at XMP or manual. I see higher vdd and vddq voltages than I have been using. I see you also loosened timings. I'll try some of that. what did you end up with as VSA and cpu VDDQ? is 1.5 correct for cpu VDDQ?


Yep that's the correct vddq tx. It was not reboot stable though. These settings are my reboot stable settings warzone etc stable and the voltages are accurate on this setup as far as what you see on the screen as well. If I go down on my vddq tx it's no longer stable. If I go to high with it, it loses stability as well. Very fine line to be balanced just right dependent on your system of course.










In BIOS I have mem vdd / vddq set to 1.52 / 1.51 and vddq tx set to 1.54. I have a vccsa set to 1.27 and offset my l2 voltage by .100 as well, I also set my IMC Voltage to 1.43 I believe. I might be able to turn the offset to l2 off, not sure. I might be able to turn down my IMC too but, haven't toyed around further to find out TBH.

It took a lot of hours to get here. I've spent more time in this BIOS then any other one before this one. Key thing for me was updating my Intel ME Driver then Firmware then BIOS. After that I got more stability and things started making more sense voltages wise. Before that my vdd / vddq like to be staggered way more, 1.45 / 1.39 for example. I can run them close to locked now.


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Flush the bios is also important. Take out bios battery for a while.


.....if something goes VERY wrong you mean? With all my CPU and RAM overclocking on the Z490 platform, I NEVER needed to remove the CMOS battery. But then again I don't push my overclocks so far as corrupting the BIOS... Is Z790 with DDR5 somehow different here?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> .....if something goes VERY wrong you mean? With all my CPU and RAM overclocking on the Z490 platform, I NEVER needed to remove the CMOS battery. But then again I don't push my overclocks so far as corrupting the BIOS... Is Z790 with DDR5 somehow different here?


If you push the overclock to the edge or over the edge too much, or just have problems. This trick tend to help. It is what it is I guess


----------



## Betroz

I fail to see why motherboards have a "Clear CMOS button" if it only works when you "screw up halfway", but useless if you go full OC bonkers 
Having to pull out a 4090 card just so we can access the CMOS battery is a huge pain if you ask me.


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> I fail to see why motherboards have a "Clear CMOS button" if it only works when you "screw up halfway", but useless if you go full OC bonkers
> Having to pull out a 4090 card just so we can access the CMOS battery is a huge pain if you ask me.


Overclockers loves pain. That's why we are here @ OCN 😅


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> Overclockers loves pain. That's why we are here @ OCN 😅


Hmm it should be called OCD


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## Dodgexander

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2593167


Where's the photo of your credit card statement? 😂


----------



## Betroz

@Carillo and @Nizzen 
Anything new with tuning RTL/IOL with DDR5? From screenshots in this thread I can see that the values/numbers are higher vs DDR4 settings.


----------



## Dinnzy

What do you guys think, keep painstakingly trying to tune my gskill 6400 aide (on water) or just rip the the heat spreaders off the 7800 can and yolo it. They get way to hot in there stock shields to get a good gauge of the quality. I did boot 8200 with my 12900ks and pass Aida @ 49.2 NS. 4 more days left to return ;p


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> @Carillo and @Nizzen
> Anything new with tuning RTL/IOL with DDR5? From screenshots in this thread I can see that the values/numbers are higher vs DDR4 settings.


We do only set "roundtrip latency =on" in bios


----------



## xh43k

Well I just gave up
It’s stable at 7000 34-42-42-54 1.4V
But absolutely unstable at 7200 34-45-45-115 1.4-1.45V

But it is completely stable with only one stick

must be my CPUs IMC, 13700k bad luck I guess


----------



## Dodgexander

xh43k said:


> Well I just gave up
> It’s stable at 7000 34-42-42-54 1.4V
> But absolutely unstable at 7200 34-45-45-115 1.4-1.45V
> 
> But it is completely stable with only one stick
> 
> must be my CPUs IMC, 13700k bad luck I guess


I doubt it's your IMC, 12th gen have poorer IMC and can clock a lot higher usually.
It will be a limitation of your Motherboard (4 slot). QVL has max 7200 and not with G.SKILL sticks. By comparison 2 slot z790i Edge has 8000 ram listed and many 7200 kits. I myself have run ram on the z790i on 12th gen at 7800.
MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI (msi.com)

There's a reason this thread seems like a z790 Apex thread often, people know that you need a 2 slot board to clock higher. I think the only 4 slot that is capable of higher clocks is the EVGA Dark Kingpin.


----------



## tibcsi0407

Nizzen said:


> I tested one g.skill 7600 kit. This was 100% stable with xmp settings. Even with xmp tweaked settings on Asus Apex with 1.4v. Luck or not, I don't know.
> Testing 8000 kit now. 100% stable with xmp settings.4ê4 rá
> Most of the time there is a headroom for "voltage" on kits, so undervoltage often possible.
> Allways start with stock cpu, and enough aircooling direct on the dimms. Then remember to disable fastboot to train the memory.
> Flush the bios is also important. Take out bios battery for a while.
> 
> This is the way to sucsess





Dodgexander said:


> I doubt it's your IMC, 12th gen have poorer IMC and can clock a lot higher usually.
> It will be a limitation of your Motherboard (4 slot). QVL has max 7200 and not with G.SKILL sticks. By comparison 2 slot z790i Edge has 8000 ram listed and many 7200 kits. I myself have run ram on the z790i on 12th gen at 7800.
> MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI (msi.com)
> 
> There's a reason this thread seems like a z790 Apex thread often, people know that you need a 2 slot board to clock higher. I think the only 4 slot that is capable of higher clocks is the EVGA Dark Kingpin.


Dark has 2 slots.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

What am I missing here? Lately my brain has been malfunctioning, so I gotta ask. Why does the faster 64GB DDR5 kit the least expensive?
What makes the GSKILL kit cost 899?
Why is the Corsair slower , but costs 649?
I bought the ccheaper kit, but it also seems that it’s the fastest and it’s only 420 bucks.


----------



## xh43k

Dodgexander said:


> I doubt it's your IMC, 12th gen have poorer IMC and can clock a lot higher usually.
> It will be a limitation of your Motherboard (4 slot).


Well, G.skill support wants to try replacing the sticks, they have this mobo in their QVL, so they probably think it should work on 4slot mobo.. but that process would take 2 weeks I guess and being two weeks without a PC would suck.
They currently want me to recheck the CPU pins and if the cpu cooler isn't too tight, I use thermalright contact frame so it can't really be too tight, and noctua nh-d15s which uses springs so that also can't be too tight.
MSI Support hasn't replied yet to my latest update
But increasing voltages should rule out mobo or not ? It doesn't run stable-ish even with higher voltages..
I mean, sure, if I dont increase voltages it gets errors after 5 minutes in TM5 extreme, with 1.45 voltages it gets errors after 30-40 minutes so it gets a bit better.
Thus why I think its the IMC, which g.skill support also wrote as another possibility if the replacement modules would have same problem.
Not once they mentioned mobo as a possible problem

Is there anybody here who successfully runs 7200+ on 4slot motherboard ?
Also, each stick runs fine ALONE but I guess that's expected.

Also, the hottest stick gets to 53 celsius in TM5 extreme, I would guess it is also a bit limiting, but tREFI on xmp is 'just' around 7000 while the 7000MHz tweaked is 56000 so it would be more sensitive to temperature right.. idk I am just a noob at this ordeal, I just wanted to run it at XMP stable and now I am learning memory overclocking and tinkering with timings.. what world we live in


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## sugi0lover

xh43k said:


> Well, G.skill support wants to try replacing the sticks, they have this mobo in their QVL, so they probably think it should work on 4slot mobo.. but that process would take 2 weeks I guess and being two weeks without a PC would suck.
> 
> MSI Support hasn't replied yet to my latest update
> 
> But increasing voltages should rule out mobo or not ? It doesn't run stable-ish even with higher voltages..
> 
> I mean, sure, if I dont increase voltages it gets errors after 5 minutes in TM5 extreme, with 1.45 voltages it gets errors after 30-40 minutes so it gets a bit better.
> 
> Thus why I think its the IMC, which g.skill support also wrote as another possibility if the replacement modules would have same problem.
> 
> Not once they mentioned mobo as a possible problem
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anybody here who successfully runs 7200+ on 4slot motherboard ?


Here are some 7800+ stable ram oc on 4 slot mb.



sugi0lover said:


> sharing stable 8000 cl34 oc Asus Z790 Extreme by Doojin
> 
> VDD 1.46v / VDDQ 1.45v / Tx 1.4v / Mc 1.35v / SA 1.15v
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Asus Z790 Extreme 8000 CL34 OC setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2588588





sugi0lover said:


> sharing Z790 Godlike ram oc~ (not my setup)
> 
> 7800 32-45-45-45-32, 2N
> Voltages: VDD/VDDQ : 1.68v, rest : Auto
> View attachment 2589352


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## xh43k

sugi0lover said:


> Here are some 7800+ stable ram oc on 4 slot mb.


So both 13900k.. IMC heaven.  and also much expensive Mobos, I think z790 godlike is 1200+ and z790 extreme is 1500+ so yeah.. not paying so much for memory OC


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## the_patchelor

If you like to have mem fun, then Apex. I just changed last weekeend from MSI z790i ITX Edge (7600 stable, 7800 was not stable for me, may one crazy setting but...) to Apex (with same CPU and same 2 memory kits)

So I went from 7600 to 8200 (G.Skill 6600 Tridentz) and from 7600 to 8000 (with the cheaper G.Skill 6000 S5 A-Die Ripjaws). As much as I liked the small "David" ähhhmmm MSI edge, the more I love the Apex (Had some mem OC Asus Boards in the past) and I woud go this way again, even with the higher price. (But at least I will get some money from cashback)


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## xh43k

the_patchelor said:


> If you like to have mem fun, then Apex.


I wanted to have fun.. playing games after buying a new PC with 7200 XMP kit.. but then I had to waste now I feel like tens of hours just to get the kit stable at 7000 
(okay ngl it was a bit fun)
I get it.. 7000+ is area where many will fail right now I guess but I was in a bliss of thinking that XMP is guaranteed based on my past experience 

Anyway.. I tried changing RAM voltages while using 7200 34-44-44-56
VDD to 1.46 and VDDQ to 1.46 -> Instant errors
VDD to 1.45 and VDDQ to 1.43 -> Error after 3 minutes
VDD to 1.43 and VDDQ to 1.40 -> Error after 25 minutes
VDD to 1.45 and VDDQ to 1.40 -> Error after 3 minutes
VDD to 1.40 and VDDQ to 1.35 -> Error after 8 minutes

Seems higher voltage makes them more unstable, especially VDDQ


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## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

xh43k said:


> I wanted to have fun.. playing games after buying a new PC with 7200 XMP kit.. but then I had to waste now I feel like tens of hours just to get the kit stable at 7000
> (okay ngl it was a bit fun)
> I get it.. 7000+ is area where many will fail right now I guess but I was in a bliss of thinking that XMP is guaranteed based on my past experience
> 
> Anyway.. I tried increasing voltages while using 7200 34-44-44-56
> VDD to 1.46 and VDDQ to 1.46 -> Instant errors
> VDD to 1.45 and VDDQ to 1.43 -> Errors after 3 minutes
> VDD to 1.43 and VDDQ to 1.40 -> Error after 25 minutes
> 
> Seems higher voltage makes them more unstable, especially VDDQ



You haven't upgraded your Intel me driver or firmware yet have you? I'm guessing because your memory voltages like to be staggered like that. Mine did that until I upgraded the before mentioned. Now they run in succession fine. You should upgrade your bios after doing the before mentioned as well.


----------



## xh43k

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> You haven't upgraded your Intel me driver or firmware yet have you? I'm guessing because your memory voltages like to be staggered like that. Mine did that until I upgraded the before mentioned. Now they run in succession fine. You should upgrade your bios after doing the before mentioned as well.


I did this on Asus boards, but on my MSI board it does not mention anything about updating ME firmware as well as there is no update package available on the downloads.. so idk.
I just installed ME driver of course, as the rest.

Edit: It's patched on my mobo by default it seems:


----------



## energie80

xh43k said:


> I did this on Asus boards, but on my MSI board it does not mention anything about updating ME firmware as well as there is no update package available on the downloads.. so idk.
> I just installed ME driver of course, as the rest.


ME drivers are inside latest beta bios


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## xh43k

energie80 said:


> ME drivers are inside latest beta bios


Yeah then I am covered.. I am on H.23 beta

No matter VDD/VDDQ voltage its basically always unstable at 7200.


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## DanGleeballs

xh43k said:


> Well, G.skill support wants to try replacing the sticks, they have this mobo in their QVL, so they probably think it should work on 4slot mobo.. but that process would take 2 weeks I guess and being two weeks without a PC would suck.
> They currently want me to recheck the CPU pins and if the cpu cooler isn't too tight, I use thermalright contact frame so it can't really be too tight, and noctua nh-d15s which uses springs so that also can't be too tight.
> MSI Support hasn't replied yet to my latest update
> But increasing voltages should rule out mobo or not ? It doesn't run stable-ish even with higher voltages..
> I mean, sure, if I dont increase voltages it gets errors after 5 minutes in TM5 extreme, with 1.45 voltages it gets errors after 30-40 minutes so it gets a bit better.
> Thus why I think its the IMC, which g.skill support also wrote as another possibility if the replacement modules would have same problem.
> Not once they mentioned mobo as a possible problem
> 
> Is there anybody here who successfully runs 7200+ on 4slot motherboard ?
> Also, each stick runs fine ALONE but I guess that's expected.
> 
> Also, the hottest stick gets to 53 celsius in TM5 extreme, I would guess it is also a bit limiting, but tREFI on xmp is 'just' around 7000 while the 7000MHz tweaked is 56000 so it would be more sensitive to temperature right.. idk I am just a noob at this ordeal, I just wanted to run it at XMP stable and now I am learning memory overclocking and tinkering with timings.. what world we live in


That contact frame could be some of your trouble. Lots of people have had issues with them and you shouldn't need it with 13th gen and newer boards iirc


----------



## the_patchelor

13th gen IHS same as 12, retention modul also same so still an "issue" if focussed on cooling.
I use the Thermalright frame myself, so far so good


----------



## DanGleeballs

Just look back in the thread


----------



## xh43k

DanGleeballs said:


> That contact frame could be some of your trouble. Lots of people have had issues with them and you shouldn't need it with 13th gen and newer boards iirc


Removed contact frame, (my temps actually dropped in load by 4 degrees which is weird).. but still unstable at 7200 XMP so, no change there.


----------



## Nizzen

xh43k said:


> I wanted to have fun.. playing games after buying a new PC with 7200 XMP kit.. but then I had to waste now I feel like tens of hours just to get the kit stable at 7000
> (okay ngl it was a bit fun)
> I get it.. 7000+ is area where many will fail right now I guess but I was in a bliss of thinking that XMP is guaranteed based on my past experience
> 
> Anyway.. I tried changing RAM voltages while using 7200 34-44-44-56
> VDD to 1.46 and VDDQ to 1.46 -> Instant errors
> VDD to 1.45 and VDDQ to 1.43 -> Error after 3 minutes
> VDD to 1.43 and VDDQ to 1.40 -> Error after 25 minutes
> VDD to 1.45 and VDDQ to 1.40 -> Error after 3 minutes
> VDD to 1.40 and VDDQ to 1.35 -> Error after 8 minutes
> 
> Seems higher voltage makes them more unstable, especially VDDQ


This behavior is lack of memory training. Did you pus the "retrain" button on the MB and disabled the fastboot?


----------



## xh43k

Nizzen said:


> This behavior is lack of memory training. Did you pus the "retrain" button on the MB and disabled the fastboot?


I didn't specifically push any button but I set up memory fastboot to "slow training" or something like that.


----------



## Nizzen

xh43k said:


> I didn't specifically push any button but I set up memory fastboot to "slow training" or something like that.


Aha, you have MSI. Then I have no clue.


----------



## Latchback

Betroz said:


> I fail to see why motherboards have a "Clear CMOS button" if it only works when you "screw up halfway", but useless if you go full OC bonkers
> Having to pull out a 4090 card just so we can access the CMOS battery is a huge pain if you ask me.


I feel like the clear cmos button should just be a switch so that it acts as if the battery is out. So you press it once then wait 10min and press it again so that the battery is back in. This would allow longer cmos clear using the button/switch.


----------



## headpiece747

Been watching this like a hawk saw @xh43k system and also on MSI board and having the same issue with the same ram can't get the ram stable at 7200. I have 6800 stable even put a fan in front of the ram to cool it but nothing has changed. Funny I bought 6800 first but exchanged it for 7200 when I saw it for the same price at Microcenter should have kept it and would haven't seen any of this.

Edit: Thanks @xh43k for the timings had just kept it stock before because I just want to play games at a stable ram clock


Spoiler: TestMem 5 Absolut, Timings and HWiNFO64


----------



## robalm

Just a question about VDDQ TX Voltage.
Seems that it can go really low, from 1.4v down to 1.2v (have not tested any lower).
Have you guys notice any problem with stability going very low?


----------



## Latchback

robalm said:


> Just a question about VDDQ TX Voltage.
> Seems that it can go really low, from 1.4v down to 1.2v (have not tested any lower).
> Have you guys notice any problem with stability going very low?


More on this...

Could I get some more info on VDDQ TX please?

I'm pretty familiar with the IMC voltage, the ram vdd,vvdq,vpp,

But not so familiar with the VDDQ TX, what it does, ranges, and how it effects overclocks and stability. And how it relates to IMC voltage.

I have seen huge variances in ranges looking through the posts, anywhere from like 1.2-1.6. 

I originally thought TX and IMC were supposed to be about the same but I am seeing that is not true.

Thanks


----------



## s1rrah

Hi.

Is 1.45v okay for Hynix IC's? Can they be pushed further? 

Coming from years of DDR4 use so don't know what I'm doing. Tell me if these first steps are dumb or not. It's Hynix for sure, just don't know the die-type yet.

*STOCK: *6000mhz / 1.25v / 36-38-38-76

With the new 13th gen, I'm currently running the DIMMS at the following:

*TEST OC1:* 6600mhz / 1.45v / 32-38-38-86 
_or..._
*TEST OC2:* 6600mhz / 1.45 / 32-39-39-78

Can these sticks be pushed into the 1.55v area with adequate cooling? That would be good news as the above clocks are daily use/gaming/work stable but fail in the important tests (TestMem5/CBr23 multi loop/etc.).

Thanks for any comments...

*Basic screen from HWINFO:*










...

*And I'm equally clueless about the new Z690 Bios so any comments/changes in the following would also be worthwhile:*










...









...

thanks...


----------



## QXE

Latchback said:


> More on this...
> 
> Could I get some more info on VDDQ TX please?
> 
> I'm pretty familiar with the IMC voltage, the ram vdd,vvdq,vpp,
> 
> But not so familiar with the VDDQ TX, what it does, ranges, and how it effects overclocks and stability. And how it relates to IMC voltage.
> 
> I have seen huge variances in ranges looking through the posts, anywhere from like 1.2-1.6.
> 
> I originally thought TX and IMC were supposed to be about the same but I am seeing that is not true.
> 
> Thanks


VDDQ TX Powers on the imc and is derived from the internal voltage regulator. It’s FIVR just like VCCSA. I wouldn’t run this above 1.5V for long periods of time.


----------



## J_Lab4645

xh43k said:


> Well, G.skill support wants to try replacing the sticks, they have this mobo in their QVL, so they probably think it should work on 4slot mobo.. but that process would take 2 weeks I guess and being two weeks without a PC would suck.
> They currently want me to recheck the CPU pins and if the cpu cooler isn't too tight, I use thermalright contact frame so it can't really be too tight, and noctua nh-d15s which uses springs so that also can't be too tight.
> MSI Support hasn't replied yet to my latest update
> But increasing voltages should rule out mobo or not ? It doesn't run stable-ish even with higher voltages..
> I mean, sure, if I dont increase voltages it gets errors after 5 minutes in TM5 extreme, with 1.45 voltages it gets errors after 30-40 minutes so it gets a bit better.
> Thus why I think its the IMC, which g.skill support also wrote as another possibility if the replacement modules would have same problem.
> Not once they mentioned mobo as a possible problem
> 
> _Is there anybody here who successfully runs 7200+ on 4slot motherboard ?_
> Also, each stick runs fine ALONE but I guess that's expected.
> 
> Also, the hottest stick gets to 53 celsius in TM5 extreme, I would guess it is also a bit limiting, but tREFI on xmp is 'just' around 7000 while the 7000MHz tweaked is 56000 so it would be more sensitive to temperature right.. idk I am just a noob at this ordeal, I just wanted to run it at XMP stable and now I am learning memory overclocking and tinkering with timings.. what world we live in



When I was testing the Z790 Hero in November (4 slot), It ran up to 7800mhz no problem. Settled on 7600 because it required so much less voltage than 7800mhz and didn't need any ram fan for cooling. Tested with i9-12900ks and i9-13900kf. Same results for both cpu's. Your board max qvl = 7200 for z790 Tomahawk. If you can get 7000 rock solid for that board....I'd consider that just fine. (returned the Hero when the z790 Apex was delivered)


----------



## xh43k

J_Lab4645 said:


> When I was testing the Z790 Hero in November (4 slot), It ran up to 7800mhz no problem. Settled on 7600 because it required so much less voltage than 7800mhz and didn't need any ram fan for cooling. Tested with i9-12900ks and i9-13900kf. Same results for both cpu's. Your board max qvl = 7200 for z790 Tomahawk. If you can get 7000 rock solid for that board....I'd consider that just fine. (returned the Hero when the z790 Apex was delivered)


Yeah I am kinda happy anyway, with Asus boards not even 7000 was stable at default timings.. with MSI I even tightened timings.

looking at your screenshot
Any particular reason you use higher tRCD WR than tRCD ?


----------



## J_Lab4645

xh43k said:


> Yeah I am kinda happy anyway, with Asus boards not even 7000 was stable at default timings.. with MSI I even tightened timings.
> 
> looking at your screenshot
> Any particular reason you use higher tRCD WR than tRCD ?


....just a fluke on that screenshot- forgot to set it manually. that is an (auto) setting so just (ignore)
...should be 44


----------



## WINTENDOX

hello, i don't understand much but i'm doing it wrong? in the cpu i have the voltages on auto.


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## xh43k

Maybe you could say a few words about what's wrong.
To me it seems your timings are too tight for 7600, also, since I cant get over 7000, screw your 7600 
jk

Also, update for my 'case' of unstable 7200.. G.skill wants to initiate RMA, I am a bit hesitant still, because I have to pay postal fees as well as wait several weeks.. can it really be RAM ?
MSI Is going to get hold of the memory kit I have and test it with my MB, seems like a good support 

Ill post an update if I have any.


----------



## tibcsi0407

xh43k said:


> Maybe you could say a few words about what's wrong.
> To me it seems your timings are too tight for 7600, also, since I cant get over 7000, screw your 7600


It's far from tight.
This could be tighten either:


----------



## xh43k

I just found out about the new absolut config for tm5, is this one better for stability testing than extreme ?


----------

