# Can Anyone Suggest a Good Mechanical, Backlit Keyboard?



## blackhand

go with the nighthawk. also dont go for the razer there has been lots of problems from what i hear with reliability.


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## rxsocal

The best keyboard that I ever used has to be the Ducky mechanicals. I had a non backlit one which I fell in love with. I was about to pull the trigger on the backlit Ducky but I really needed macro keys. Therefore, I got the Blackwidow ultimate which has suited me well. Although they're both cherry blues, it was slightly easier and felt better to type on the ducky. My recommendation is:

If you dont need macro keys, look no further than the DUCKY backlit key board:
http://www.tankguys.com/mechnical-keyboards.html

If you need macro keys along with mechanical/backlit, then blackwidow ultimate is an option.


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## CptChiggs

Dude go for the Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8. I was really into the ducky until I saw how nice those Maxkeyboards look.

FYI.

We have started a group buy for max keyboards that will give you a 20% discount on all Max Keyboard products.

Go to http://www.forums.custompcreview.com/f75/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-x9-group-buy-5-thread-838/

for a spot on the list. We only need five peeps left for the coupon.

Also with the 20% off will make
NightHawk X8 - $144.99 original --> $115.99 after discount

That's currently cheaper than the trigger. It's a no brainer


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## ParadoxEternal

those duckys look nice. i really can't decide between the nighthawk or the ducky shine dk9008s.

CptChiggs, that looks like a good deal but how long do you think we could get enough people for it? I kind of need a keyboard soon as this one is dying on me as we speak.

and can anyone tell me what macro keys are? Not sure what they do.

i think i'm leaning towards the ducky now actually--seems to have slightly more attention to detail, but still not sure.


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## CptChiggs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ParadoxEternal*
> 
> those duckys look nice. i really can't decide between the nighthawk or the ducky shine dk9008s.
> CptChiggs, that looks like a good deal but how long do you think we could get enough people for it? I kind of need a keyboard soon as this one is dying on me as we speak.
> and can anyone tell me what macro keys are? Not sure what they do.
> i think i'm leaning towards the ducky now actually--seems to have slightly more attention to detail, but still not sure.


Fairly quickly, my educated guess would be within a week. The ducky is a great keyboard but from what I've seen is that it's cherry stabilizers aren't on par with costar stabilizers that the nighthawk has. Another thing too is that maxkeyboard has great customer service/ rma processes. Many stories about them throwing it bonuses like custom keys and other accessories when the customer is having issues. Also heard that the wristrest that comes with it is really nice memory foam.

I think it's personal preference after you consider these pros/cons.

Macro keys are just extra keys usually on the side of the keyboard that can be programmed to do certain tasks (a very big plus for mmos)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823816002 for reference(all those keys on the side)


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## kremtok

You should have a look at Deck: www.deckkeyboards.com

I have three and they're great!


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## ParadoxEternal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kremtok*
> 
> You should have a look at Deck: www.deckkeyboards.com
> I have three and they're great!


Those look good too! They don't seem to say which swithces they are tho, just if they are tactile or linear. I would imagine linear switches are better for gaming?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptChiggs*
> 
> Fairly quickly, my educated guess would be within a week. The ducky is a great keyboard but from what I've seen is that it's cherry stabilizers aren't on par with costar stabilizers that the nighthawk has. Another thing too is that maxkeyboard has great customer service/ rma processes. Many stories about them throwing it bonuses like custom keys and other accessories when the customer is having issues. Also heard that the wristrest that comes with it is really nice memory foam.
> I think it's personal preference after you consider these pros/cons.
> Macro keys are just extra keys usually on the side of the keyboard that can be programmed to do certain tasks (a very big plus for mmos)
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823816002 for reference(all those keys on the side)


Thanks for the macro keys example. About the stabilizers, where did you get that info from? I'd just like to know. I like to do a lot of research and have alot of info at my fingertips before i make a decision. Thanks!


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## kremtok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ParadoxEternal*
> 
> Those look good too! They don't seem to say which swithces they are tho, just if they are tactile or linear. I would imagine linear switches are better for gaming?


'Linear' is black and 'Tactile' is clear.

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/keyswitches.php

I had a hard time transitioning to the black switches from a rubber dome keyboard, but once I got used to it there was no problem at all. Both of my gaming systems have black switches, Fire and Frost Linear, while my mom's computer has the Frost Tactile with clear switches because she uses it primarily for typing. I must say that it's a lot easier to type on the clear switches than black, so take that into consideration.


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## zorphon

I think Black are horrid and too hard to press, while Red are awesome for gaming and typing. But it's different for everybody. I'd say your best bet would be the Max Keyboard, or a Ducky Shine. But the Ducky Shine uses Cherry stabilizers, keep that in mind. I'm not positive but I think the Nighthawk uses Costar, but I'm not 100% sure about that.


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## tehwalris

I recommend the razer black widow ultimate (clicky, glossy body) or the black widow ultimate stealth (silent, matte body). Both are great keyboards with great quality. I ordered mine directly from their shop, which is a good idea if you can't find it in stock.


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## ParadoxEternal

CptChiggs said something about the stabilizers as well. What's the difference? I've only heard about the switches.


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## ChaoticKinesis

The longer keys like backspace, enter, shift, and spacebar have stabilizers because they are too long to be supported by a single switch. Cherry MX keyboards either have Cherry- or Costar-style stabilizers. With Cherry stabilizers those keys have something that resembles two additional MX key switches on the ends, which causes additional force to be required on the keys and contributes to a feeling that some would consider "mushy." Costar stabilizers use a thick wire insert, which results in the all keys requiring uniform pressure. Though the preference is not universal, more people seem to prefer Costar stabilizers. I would agree with those people.


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## Osea23

Get a Ducky Shine. I'm in love with mine. So many LED choices.


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## Bion

I too am looking to buy a mechanical keyboard and from what I've read I'm contemplating between customized Max Keyboards and the Ducky Shine. With the 20% group discount on the Max's, both would be around the same price. However, the Max nighthawk is a rebranded Xarmor and I've heard that their quality wasn't so good so I don't know about that. The Duckys have a solid reputation while the Max offers more features. Hopefully if Max has quality control under control their keyboards won't have any problems. Max is a new company so hopefully their boards are better than xarmors ( monoprice.com also rebrands the same board [nighthawk] and their qualtiy is pretty good so...).


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## kremtok

If you've heard and you know, then why ask?


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## invena

KBT pure and KBT race have not been mentioned if you like compacts.


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## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invena*
> 
> KBT pure and KBT race have not been mentioned if you like compacts.


I love my KBT Race! My only complaint is that some keys have lost their backlighting, but it's still amazing to type on.


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## zorphon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bion*
> 
> I too am looking to buy a mechanical keyboard and from what I've read I'm contemplating between customized Max Keyboards and the Ducky Shine. With the 20% group discount on the Max's, both would be around the same price. However, the Max nighthawk is a rebranded Xarmor and I've heard that their quality wasn't so good so I don't know about that. The Duckys have a solid reputation while the Max offers more features. Hopefully if Max has quality control under control their keyboards won't have any problems. Max is a new company so hopefully their boards are better than xarmors ( monoprice.com also rebrands the same board [nighthawk] and their qualtiy is pretty good so...).


Max keyboards are not rebranded Xarmor. Qpad, xarmor, iOne, Max are all very similar. However, out of those 4 Max and Qpad are of way higher quality. Just the build of Max/Qpad is way better than Xarmor/iOne.

Don't think for a second Max Keyboards are crappy boards. They're built very sturdy and have gold plated connections, braided cables, on-board memory, and get fantastic reviews. Heck, Xarmor and Max even have different color circuit boards.

Ducky's are good but I don't like Cherry stabilizers.

Not to mention Max customer service is superb. Heck you even get a 10% discount for liking their facebook page if you don't do the group buy. I didn't have $120-150 to spend on a Max, so I went with a Quickfire Rapid. But I wish I went with a Max in some ways because it has a lot more features.

But... Quickfire Rapid w/Reds + this for me.

**Disclaimer, I might not be completely correct on all of that but it's what I've read on various forums, such as CustomPCReview. I know for a fact though that Max is higher quality than XArmor, but very similar to QPad. I don't know a ton about Ducky's, but a lot of people on GH don't like them. The Shine is good though, no doubt.*

*Edit* Kokin, that's one nice looking board.


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## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zorphon*
> 
> Max keyboards are not rebranded Xarmor. Qpad, xarmor, iOne, Max are all very similar. However, out of those 4 Max and Qpad are of way higher quality. Just the build of Max/Qpad is way better than Xarmor/iOne.
> Don't think for a second Max Keyboards are crappy boards. They're built very sturdy and have gold plated connections, braided cables, on-board memory, and get fantastic reviews. Heck, Xarmor and Max even have different color circuit boards.
> Ducky's are good but I don't like Cherry stabilizers.
> Not to mention Max customer service is superb. Heck you even get a 10% discount for liking their facebook page if you don't do the group buy. I didn't have $120-150 to spend on a Max, so I went with a Quickfire Rapid. But I wish I went with a Max in some ways because it has a lot more features.
> But... Quickfire Rapid w/Reds + this for me.
> **Disclaimer, I might not be completely correct on all of that but it's what I've read on various forums, such as CustomPCReview. I know for a fact though that Max is higher quality than XArmor, but very similar to QPad. I don't know a ton about Ducky's, but a lot of people on GH don't like them. The Shine is good though, no doubt.*
> *Edit* Kokin, that's one nice looking board.


You "know for a fact" how? Have you owned both and observed clear differences between them?

Looking at the images, those keyboards are absolutely identical down to the fine details like the mesh patterns on the wrist rest and in the top right. They all even have the same light with mysterious 'G' label next to the Caps Lock light! XArmor came before all these other clones and they are produced by iOne, who is a well known OEM for many companies.


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## ParadoxEternal

This is a lot to think about. The max keyboards seem to be high quality from the unboxings i've seen, but then again the ducky shines and those deck keyboards also look high quality as well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> The longer keys like backspace, enter, shift, and spacebar have stabilizers because they are too long to be supported by a single switch. Cherry MX keyboards either have Cherry- or Costar-style stabilizers. With Cherry stabilizers those keys have something that resembles two additional MX key switches on the ends, which causes additional force to be required on the keys and contributes to a feeling that some would consider "mushy." Costar stabilizers use a thick wire insert, which results in the all keys requiring uniform pressure. Though the preference is not universal, more people seem to prefer Costar stabilizers. I would agree with those people.


Thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure what my preference would be, so that doesn't really factor into my decision. Coming from using a membrane keyboard i suppose anything would feel better. I've never touched a mechanical keyboard.

The KBT keyboards also look nice too. WHere can i buy those? A quick google didn't turn anything up.

Still not sure.


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## Bion

Just got the chance to feel the Razer Black Widow. Cherry Blues are pretty amazing. But one thing I noticed immediately was that the bigger keys such as space and shift (especially left shift) felt extremely mushy compared to the other keys (as though it were membrane ; even my g110 shift felt better). I've read that Razer uses crappier quality stabilizers but I understand why people prefer Costars now. I'm emailing Max to confirm if they use Costar stabilizers.

If they do, it just may be the deciding factor for me to go with Max.


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## The Master Chief

I'd get a Deck


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## Bion

Wow that response from Max was unbelievably fast. Like 12 minutes after I hit send. I'm flabbergasted. They do indeed use Costars...wow I'm so amazed by their customer service... I will now most likely be getting a customized Max Keyboard...


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## ripster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ParadoxEternal*
> 
> The KBT keyboards also look nice too. WHere can i buy those? A quick google didn't turn anything up.
> 
> Still not sure.


See my KBTalking Pure pics post for links.

Or here...
http://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comments/v07cf/new_aluminum_backlit_keyboard_available_the_pure/


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## CptChiggs

Yo man there is only one spot left for the group buy that I was talking about. It went much faster than I had expected.

Better hurry though if you want in. That spot may fill FAST!

http://www.forums.custompcreview.com/f75/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-x9-group-buy-5-thread-838/

EDIT:

Darn it seems like the last spot was taken. If your still interested though I think that you may be able to squeeze a code out of the admin. It's been done before.

Actually it's not limited to 10 people, it's a minimum of 10. However it seem the admin only messages maxkeyboards once with the list of people. So if you hurry you can be the 12th or so guy


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## zorphon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CptChiggs*
> 
> Yo man there is only one spot left for the group buy that I was talking about. It went much faster than I had expected.
> Better hurry though if you want in. That spot may fill FAST!
> http://www.forums.custompcreview.com/f75/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-x9-group-buy-5-thread-838/
> EDIT:
> Darn it seems like the last spot was taken. If your still interested though I think that you may be able to squeeze a code out of the admin. It's been done before.
> Actually it's not limited to 10 people, it's a minimum of 10. However it seem the admin only messages maxkeyboards once with the list of people. So if you hurry you can be the 12th or so guy


Definitely would have jumped on this if I wasn't impatient and got a Quickfire Rapid w/Reds instead.


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## KipH

This seems to be a hard choice right now but you are lucky. Not long ago there were only one or 2 choices. You can thank the tireless and self depreciation work of people like myself and Ripser (well, rip not so self depreciating eh ;p )

You won't be sad with any of them choices. The CF trigger looks a nice board and I love my rapid. Red switches make me so happy.
The max does look nice, no troubles there.
Never by Razor. The less said about them the better.
Of the others, I would think about waiting for the Ducky Shine II. There are some good video of it in my Computex thread. It looks just like the Year of the dragon we sold and OCN will probably get them as soon as they are available or sooner.

If nothing else works, flip a coin. It may not tell you the right answer, but as soon as you flip you know which one you don't want to win.


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## zorphon

Ultimately remember that the main feature you need in a keyboard is, is it good for typing. All the other stuff is just bonus stuff. Even a cheap mech for the most part will be way better than a crappy membrane one which you are used to. My best advice is to get something that is barebones but high quality, and move from there down the line when more stuff comes out. Like something such as a Rapid, for example.

That's just my 2 cents however. It's entirely up to you.


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## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ParadoxEternal*
> 
> The KBT keyboards also look nice too. WHere can i buy those? A quick google didn't turn anything up.
> Still not sure.


You can get them from various groupbuys from several keyboard forums or you can go to places like ebay or Taobao and get it there.

The Ducky Dragon looks like a better version of the CM quickfire, but it has not released yet.


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## warrax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bion*
> 
> Wow that response from Max was unbelievably fast. Like 12 minutes after I hit send. I'm flabbergasted. They do indeed use Costars...wow I'm so amazed by their customer service... I will now most likely be getting a customized Max Keyboard...


Yes, this is one of the priorities of Max keyboard, trying to react on e-mail as soon as possible.

Well, so Max keyboards seems to have better stabilizers than Ducky. Also, LED for max keyboards are made very well, I would not compare them with Xarmor or QPad, those had problems with uneven lightning on LEDs (just google for it on internet/youtube).

Now question is quality of keycaps and printing between Ducky and Nighthawk. Also, overall build construction, how sturdy the base is etc. On Geekhack, more ppl prefer Ducky over Max, and Filco over Ducky.

To the Deck Legends - Don't forget, that price for it is 172$ - 189$, *which is more expensive* than Ducky (140-150$) and f*ar more expensive* than Maxkeyboard after discount (120$). You cannot compare those, as that is other price point. Deck have also PBT keycaps, so it's only keyboard with backliting, that have PBT keycaps. But as I said, you cannot compare them, they don't have same price point.

Now one more question - Max keyboard using only USB, while Ducky uses also PS/2. I've heard, that PS/2 connection is faster, resulting on faster response times. Can someone confirm it, or it is not true?


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## kremtok

PS/2 isn't noticeably faster than USB, but it's interrupt-based rather than poll-based, so in theory input signals are received exactly when you send then rather than at the next polling interval. There are other differences, but none that relate to speed.

All of my Deck Legends are PS/2, but recently some main board manufacturers have removed the PS/2 port from their new boards. You should be aware of that if you're considering a PS/2 keyboard.


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## ParadoxEternal

i decided too late on the max keyboards i think, although i PMed the guy from custompc review forums to see if he had any coupons left. I was going to go for the Deck but that $175 price tag is too much. I was also thinking about a FIlco but I couldn't find any backlit ones with a quick google search.

if i dont get the coupon i'm going to go with the max anyway.


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## warrax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ParadoxEternal*
> 
> i decided too late on the max keyboards i think, although i PMed the guy from custompc review forums to see if he had any coupons left. I was going to go for the Deck but that $175 price tag is too much. I was also thinking about a FIlco but I couldn't find any backlit ones with a quick google search.
> if i dont get the coupon i'm going to go with the max anyway.


Dude, I am first in group #5, and I've just dropped off. I've decided for Ducky, so my spot is free. For sure, there is already 10 people, just PM administrator anyways, as it means MINIMAL 10 people, so usually, 10-15 is ok.
When me and Cpthiggs starting group #5, we didn't expect to find 10 ppl so fast, lol. Although, I've known interest is quite high, so it will not last more than month to collect it.


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## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kremtok*
> 
> PS/2 isn't noticeably faster than USB, but it's interrupt-based rather than poll-based, so in theory input signals are received exactly when you send then rather than at the next polling interval. There are other differences, but none that relate to speed.
> All of my Deck Legends are PS/2, but recently some main board manufacturers have removed the PS/2 port from their new boards. You should be aware of that if you're considering a PS/2 keyboard.


Response time on a keyboard is meaningless, its not like a mouse. That is not a factor for keyboards. PS/2 is good if: you don't have enough USB ports, you don't like being able to hot swap, you need more than 10 keys pressed at one time because you have 12 fingers.

OK. With less joking the usb vs ps/2 thing has got to stop. It makes no difference at all. But I would not buy a PS/2 only keyboard now. There are less PS/2 slots to stick it in


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## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Response time on a keyboard is meaningless, its not like a mouse. That is not a factor for keyboards. PS/2 is good if: you don't have enough USB ports, you don't like being able to hot swap, you need more than 10 keys pressed at one time because you have 12 fingers.
> OK. With less joking the usb vs ps/2 thing has got to stop. It makes no difference at all. But I would not buy a PS/2 only keyboard now. There are less PS/2 slots to stick it in


Well said. People really need to stop touting the importance of PS/2 and I don't understand why anyone would think 6KRO is not enough. In 99% of games only one hand is on the keyboard and those which use both typically do not require holding down so many keys simultaneously. Besides, the day will come when PS/2 will no longer be supported on typical motherboards.


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## kremtok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> Response time on a keyboard is meaningless, its not like a mouse. That is not a factor for keyboards. PS/2 is good if: you don't have enough USB ports, you don't like being able to hot swap, you need more than 10 keys pressed at one time because you have 12 fingers.
> OK. With less joking the usb vs ps/2 thing has got to stop. It makes no difference at all. But I would not buy a PS/2 only keyboard now. There are less PS/2 slots to stick it in


I think you're agreeing with me, but I'm not sure. We are both saying that the difference in input types isn't noticeable, right?


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## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kremtok*
> 
> I think you're agreeing with me, but I'm not sure. We are both saying that the difference in input types isn't noticeable, right?


Yes. I am saying that speed is not an issue for keyboards so PS/2 being "faster" does not actually help anything.


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## Massive17

Hey,

I couldn't find your Computex thread. I didn't know they were making Ducky Shine II. Can you send me a link to more information on it, I'm very interested. Wonder when it will be released, I was thinking about getting a Ducky Shine, but I can wait if the new one is right around the corner.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> This seems to be a hard choice right now but you are lucky. Not long ago there were only one or 2 choices. You can thank the tireless and self depreciation work of people like myself and Ripser (well, rip not so self depreciating eh ;p )
> You won't be sad with any of them choices. The CF trigger looks a nice board and I love my rapid. Red switches make me so happy.
> The max does look nice, no troubles there.
> Never by Razor. The less said about them the better.
> Of the others, I would think about waiting for the Ducky Shine II. There are some good video of it in my Computex thread. It looks just like the Year of the dragon we sold and OCN will probably get them as soon as they are available or sooner.
> If nothing else works, flip a coin. It may not tell you the right answer, but as soon as you flip you know which one you don't want to win.


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## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Massive17*
> 
> Hey,
> I couldn't find your Computex thread. I didn't know they were making Ducky Shine II. Can you send me a link to more information on it, I'm very interested. Wonder when it will be released, I was thinking about getting a Ducky Shine, but I can wait if the new one is right around the corner.


Ya, it is hard to find eh









On the home page there is a carousel at the top. It has a few big threads hi-lighted on it. One is the Computex thread. Others are the Toronto LAN and Power supply contest.
Or look in my sig, just under the spoiler where it says:
"overclock net Computex 2012 coverage thread"

Or here ya go:


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## Massive17

Thanks!

For a second I though they only had the ten-key less version.

I'm guessing the only benefit of the Shine 2 will be the different colored LEDs and the ability for the lights to light up as you type?

Do you know if they announced pricing, I'm guessing it will be about $200.


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## KipH

It should be about the same price as the "Year of the Dragon" model that OCN was selling. I missed them but they were under $140. Does anyone remember?

And there are some other updates. Better KRO over USB I think and a few others. But not a huge difference no. The shine 1 would be fine if you are finding it more at your price.


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## Massive17

If the Shine 2 is going to be available for $140 I will definitely get one. Do you know the expected release date?


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## Joe221

I just got a Tesoro Durandal, which Max sells. IMHO it's very nice and worthy of consideration. Love the Cherry browns, great back lighting and smart designed keys. Some have the verticle etching so the lower symbol isn't well lit. These are side by side so they are well lit. Also the actual stepping of the LEDs are great. Starts dim and progresses to bright in three steps (and breathing, Feh). The Trigger starts bright and goes to too bright. The bad is no dedicated row of Macro keys. No biggie to me. Also easy Windows Key kill enable, Fn-F12.


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## warrax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Massive17*
> 
> If the Shine 2 is going to be available for $140 I will definitely get one. *Do you know the expected release date?*


This! Same question.


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## fengkiandoni

I been write reviews about Backlit Keyboard in my blog. You can see the reviews ini here http://bestmechanicalkeyboard.org/cm-storm-trigger/

hope to help.


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## efficacy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaoticKinesis*
> 
> The longer keys like backspace, enter, shift, and spacebar have stabilizers because they are too long to be supported by a single switch. Cherry MX keyboards either have Cherry- or Costar-style stabilizers. With Cherry stabilizers those keys have something that resembles two additional MX key switches on the ends, which causes additional force to be required on the keys and contributes to a feeling that some would consider "mushy." Costar stabilizers use a thick wire insert, which results in the all keys requiring uniform pressure. Though the preference is not universal, more people seem to prefer Costar stabilizers. I would agree with those people.


I have a Ducky Shine II, and the keyboard does have Cherry stabilizers (there's a picture somewhere in the Ducky Shine II thread where the poster removed keycaps from the space and backspace key to look at what was making the keys feel "mushy"). Personally, I didn't really notice the "mushy" feel unless I was consciously thinking about it, and I'm not sure if that's because I used red switches before this, or if it just doesn't really bother me.

All I can say is that I have nothing but positive things to say about the Ducky Shine II; the LEDs are great and it's a very sturdy keyboard.







Although the Night Hawk looks super slick too!

Edit: To clarify, I have a Ducky Shine II TKL with Brown switches and blue LEDs.


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