# [Various] AMD Radeon R9 290X reviews thread



## lacrossewacker

290X just kicked nvidia right in the kisser

Time to see some mad price cuts


----------



## GTR Mclaren

AMD R9 280X price - 299$ - kills the 399$ 770

AMD R9 290X price - 550$ - kills the 650$ 780

Nvidia, please, for the love of God...DROP your prices


----------



## Master__Shake

titan for 500?

probably not


----------



## L36

$549? This ought to make things interesting.


----------



## TheBlademaster01

Lol, AMD just pulled an HD 4870


----------



## Master__Shake

oc3d


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> AMD R9 280X price - 299$ - kills the 399$ 770
> 
> AMD R9 290X price - 550$ - kills the 650$ 780
> 
> Nvidia, please, for the love of God...DROP your prices


A 770 for $300 or less would make me the happiest man alive. Knowing nvidia though... we're probably not getting any drops and we'll just see ti models added.


----------



## scorpscarx

To wait for a non-reference card *staying air, or to go in now and get something from Arctic, that is the question.....

Saphire is the one with Hynix or so I've read, btw....


----------



## Stay Puft

Called it. Great work amd


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Oh snap! $550 and faster than Titan!


----------



## youra6

Any word of when it will be out in retailers?


----------



## Clukos

This card needs to be watercooled!


----------



## Master__Shake

NCIX only has sapphire cards right now


----------



## Vaub

Wow, those card with a waterblock must be awesome... no, no, my 7950 is still fine... must... resist...

Actually, the R9-290 might be an awesome deal if near 400-450$.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> Any word of when it will be out in retailers?


Up on newegg. Already ordered


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Up on newegg. Already ordered


Newegg USA only shows them as Coming Soon.


----------



## Gnomepatrol

Wow, bring on the price cuts Nvidia lol.


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Newegg USA only shows them as Coming Soon.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150675
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202058

Good show AMD.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

I think I will list my 7970s tomorrow in the Market.


----------



## jtom320

AMD totally pushed this thing to it's thermal/power limits. Pretty impressive.

I've gone through a bunch of the reviews but I can't seem to find OC vs OC.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

It pains me to see Nvidia cards with those horrible prices....I think I will return to the red side


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Up on newegg. Already ordered


I'm furiously refreshing Amazon.


----------



## yawa

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but this weird uber mode power switching thing AMD is doing is intriguing.

But to fully grasp the performance of these cards we NEEEEEDDD reviews under water, boosted to 100% as even UBER mode is only hitting 55%

I wanna see what she can do beyond that. Get her underwater. Now.


----------



## stn0092

Damn. Tom's Hardware's 7680x1440 resolution benchmarks are amazing.

Looks like I'll be staying red two years in a row.


----------



## sdlvx

Those frame time graphs in the Anandtech review. 290x Crossfire looks amazing, sometimes even better than Nvidia.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Newegg USA only shows them as Coming Soon.


If you click on them some will show the price and are order able


----------



## scyy

Looking at the new clocking methods it actually looks like given at least the limited clocks that can be reached on the air coolers these reviewers used that high clocking 780's and titans will pretty much still be on top till we see how far the silicon can really go on water. The clocks apparently can drop as much as 100mhz+ from the starting clocks once it gets hot and hits power envelopes.

Not to be talking bad about the card, it looks great and a better deal than the titan and 780 at their current price points.


----------



## MattGordon

Any idea on when non-reference cards will be out? More specifically the Asus Direct c u cooling?


----------



## Ukkooh

All I need to know right now is which brands allow me to change the cooler without breaking the warranty. I'm putting a h100i on that sucker. Somone please enlighten me.

Kitguru article: http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/amd-r9-290x-review-part-1/


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy*
> 
> Looking at the new clocking methods it actually looks like given at least the limited clocks that can be reached on the air coolers these reviewers used that high clocking 780's and titans will pretty much still be on top till we see how far the silicon can really go on water. The clocks apparently can drop as much as 100mhz+ from the starting clocks once it gets hot and hits power envelopes.
> 
> Not to be talking bad about the card, it looks great and a better deal than the titan and 780 at their current price points.


Wizzard hit 1200 core with his reference 290X


----------



## youra6

580 dollars? C'mon now, drop the price to 550 and no one gets hurt...


----------



## Gnomepatrol

So went and looked around on amazon and newegg at the gtx 660 since I was eyeing one, and guess what? The prices went up 25$. I guess we can expect price increases


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtom320*
> 
> AMD totally pushed this thing to it's thermal/power limits. Pretty impressive.
> 
> I've gone through a bunch of the reviews but I can't seem to find OC vs OC.


you wont find proper OC vs. OC until OCNers ge the cards.


----------



## carlhil2

Well played AMD, very impressive, if this thing can overclock like a boss...


----------



## pyra

waiting this before ordering all the parts for the new build, looks great.

Off topic: do AMD have a processor that wont bottleneck this beast?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Wizzard hit 1200 core with his reference 290X


Links for this?


----------



## jtom320

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy*
> 
> Looking at the new clocking methods it actually looks like given at least the limited clocks that can be reached on the air coolers these reviewers used that high clocking 780's and titans will pretty much still be on top till we see how far the silicon can really go on water. The clocks apparently can drop as much as 100mhz+ from the starting clocks once it gets hot and hits power envelopes.
> 
> Not to be talking bad about the card, it looks great and a better deal than the titan and 780 at their current price points.


I didn't want to be the one to say it but you are right. If 10% is people are getting on review cards I'd be a little bit concerned about running these things on anything but water especially combined with those temps. In fact those temps are about as high as I've ever seen. I had a 480 and it never hit 95 degrees.

I'd venture to say that at max OC it's actually a couple percentage points behind. At least at 1080p.

All that said at 549 dollars the thing is extremely well priced. I think that's the biggest take away really. It's some serious performance for a lot less then the competition.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> AMD R9 280X price - 299$ - kills the 399$ 770
> 
> AMD R9 290X price - 550$ - kills the 650$ 780
> 
> Nvidia, please, for the love of God...DROP your prices


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> A 770 for $300 or less would make me the happiest man alive. Knowing nvidia though... we're probably not getting any drops and we'll just see ti models added.


Wouldn't the best thing to do is move to AMD? Show Nvidia you aren't happy with prices.

Vote with your wallets.


----------



## gamer11200

This is going to be a great holiday season for gamers!


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Wizzard hit 1200 core with his reference 290X


Yeah, some people are forgetting you can change the fan profile and just deal with the extra noise. Still this chip is pushed much closer to its limits than the initial 7970, perhaps that's what the AMD GPU guy meant buy "lessons learned".


----------



## SectorNine50

_Wow._


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Wizzard hit 1200 core with his reference 290X


Did it stay there though? That's the thing, the clocks work similar to gpu boost now and do not stay at those max clocks. I know you are just going to yell bias but look at the pcper article where it talks about powertune, these cards downclock themselves fairly quickly as they heat up, That's why I said it's up till we get some people here getting these cards into some custom loops to see a REAL comparison. My cards can run 1255mhz 24/7 on air at 1.2, these cards can't even approach that at least on the reference design cooler.


----------



## nagle3092

Well done amd.


----------



## Just a nickname

That is a nice middle finger addressed to nvidia.
Hope the green will also surprise us.


----------



## RhoSigmaTau

runs at 95 degrees celcius...oh god D: I'll wait a few months to see if there are any issues w/ temp before I buy this


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gnomepatrol*
> 
> So went and looked around on amazon and newegg at the gtx 660 since I was eyeing one, and guess what? The prices went up 25$. I guess we can expect price increases


I was afraid of this happening.

"Oh cmon people! You get g-sync, physx, and even shadowplay!! So what if it costs such a large premium!.... we have sexy air coolers..? G.. guys? Please love me still..."


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> SAPPHIRE 100361BF4SR Radeon R9 290X 4GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 BattleField 4 Game Edition Video Card


is this for the exclusive preorder card? Or is it just a normal R9 290X?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> you wont find proper OC vs. OC until OCNers ge the cards.


We have a Titan killer on our hands for 1/2 the price.

LOL


----------



## SandGlass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlademaster01*
> 
> Lol, AMD just pulled an HD 4870


Yup!


----------



## Fniz92

Goodjob AMD, time to get my custom loop in motion and run this thing at 1300+MHz.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fniz92*
> 
> Goodjob AMD, time to get my custom loop in motion and run this thing at 1300+MHz.


Now that's what we need to see.


----------



## youra6

Quote:


> *SAPPHIRE 100361BF4SR Radeon R9 290X 4GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 BattleField 4 Game Edition Video Card*
> 
> *BattleField 4 game**s* *included, limited offer*


This is one has game(s) attached instead of just game (singular)... I hope I got the preorder card!


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Called it. Great work amd


Indeed you did, blind luck or not good call









This is awesome







Real question is..does the 290 match the 780 for 400$ lol oh how awesome that would be. Either way looking forward to price cuts.


----------



## bstover17

Might be the first AMD graphics card I have EVER bought.....


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Wizzard hit 1200 core with his reference 290X


He didn't. He hit 1125MHz with uber bios and 1145MHz with quiet mode.

However if we believe his voltage scaling graph 1200MHz would have required just shy of 1.3v.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> We have a Titan killer on our hands for 1/2 the price.
> 
> LOL


That'll need ~1.3v for 1200MHz.... I think I'd wait and see OCN results.

Besides, Titan stock performance was reached at $650 back when the 780 launched...


----------



## Yvese

Oh man if the 290 is priced at $399 that would be so amazing.


----------



## royalkilla408

Nice job AMD! Hopefully it will drive down the price of Nvidia cards down dramatically so I can buy one =D. Thanks AMD!

Finally some real competition.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> Any idea on when non-reference cards will be out? More specifically the Asus Direct c u cooling?


One of the model numbers on Newegg is the DCU, it is just using a reference place holder image.


----------



## bencher

So uber mode is 1ghz....

This is like the best night ever lol.

GTX 780 isn't even competition.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> He didn't. He hit 1125MHz with uber bios and 1145MHz with quiet mode.
> 
> However if we believe his voltage scaling graph 1200MHz would have required just shy of 1.3v.
> That'll need ~1.3v for 1200MHz.... I think I'd wait and see OCN results.
> 
> Besides, Titan stock performance was reached at $650 back when the 780 launched...


Sorry no one cares about Titan anymorel


----------



## i7monkey

As a 780 owner who paid $659, I'm pretty pissed that Nvidia is releasing the 780Ti, but I'm happy the 290X is a great performer and cheaper than the 780.

Great for competition.

SCREW YOU NVIDIA! Now I know what it feels like to get screwed the way Titan owners got screwed.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy*
> 
> Did it stay there though? That's the thing, the clocks work similar to gpu boost now and do not stay at those max clocks. I know you are just going to yell bias but look at the pcper article where it talks about powertune, these cards downclock themselves fairly quickly as they heat up, That's why I said it's up till we get some people here getting these cards into some custom loops to see a REAL comparison. My cards can run 1255mhz 24/7 on air at 1.2, these cards can't even approach that at least on the reference design cooler.


There was a review the other day showing 1150 core / 1500 mem with a max temp of 70C with the fan at 100%. Wizzard used auto fan


----------



## Usario

What happened to all the NVIDIA people "hurr if AMD can beat Titan they'll price similarly AMD is not a charity"









This is a bit of an HD 4870, as others have said, in more ways than one.

1) At first, people were expecting 2304-2560 SPs and 48 ROPs -- turned out to be 2816/64, along with the added surprise of a 512 bit bus. Compare to the HD 4870 prior to launch; some rumors said 800 SPs and that figure was called outlandish and crazy

2) This thing runs HOT

3) AMD just demolished NVIDIA's entire high end pricing structure. 4870 came within 10% of GTX 280 for less than half the price, this beats the Titan by 5% for 55% of the price.

I'm looking forward to non-reference designs. Overclocking potential on the reference cooler will probably be severely limited.

NVIDIA people will make a big deal out of the 30-40W higher power consumption. Don't care. 95C is a bit troubling; non-reference cards will undoubtedly bring that down quite a bit, probably into the 70s I'd guess. Temperatures will probably be much lower if you set the fan speed higher, a tradeoff anyone who uses headphones should be more than willing to make. It'll be interesting to see how that affects things.

But the main thing is: a $1000 GPU just got beat by a $550 one.

Well done AMD.


----------



## AgentHydra

Not nearly as refined as the Titan as far as temps, noise, and power consumption, but you just can't argue with the performance for the money, nice job AMD


----------



## PureBlackFire

I am dying to see one of these test with an actual cooling solution on it. something like a DC2, Windforce X3 or a water block.


----------



## Creator

EK-FC R290X please!


----------



## y2kcamaross

Overclocking head room looks troubling, let's hope that's not the case


----------



## NJsFinest24

So if I don't plan on watercooling one of these cards, should I wait for non reference cards?? Just trying to decide whether or not to pull the trigger or wait.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Oh man, I want to build a desktop computer just for this beast.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

I can dig it. Good price, not a fan of the cooler design, but hopefully aftermarket cards and high binned OC cards will look better for a bit more. But for now, without Nvidia announcing what I think is a price cut as a matter of when not if, this is a Titan killer. If Titan and 780 come down in price to match the 290X, then it will be a very, very interesting black Friday!









Edit for OP: Paul's Hardware (guy from newegg) review is up:


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There was a review the other day showing 1150 core / 1500 mem with a max temp of 70C with the fan at 100%. Wizzard used auto fan


wizzard also gave us this:



Very close to 1.3v for 1200MHz.... (which he didn't reach obviously but assuming linear scaling from that)


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> I'm looking forward to non-reference designs. Overclocking potential on the reference cooler will probably be severely limited.


That's what Arctic Cooling is for, better than all the custom air coolers at least for 7970, btw I wonder if the Accellero 7970 will fit on the R9 290x.


----------



## sdlvx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Wizzard hit 1200 core with his reference 290X
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't. He hit 1125MHz with uber bios and 1145MHz with quiet mode.
> 
> However if we believe his voltage scaling graph 1200MHz would have required just shy of 1.3v.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> We have a Titan killer on our hands for 1/2 the price.
> 
> LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That'll need ~1.3v for 1200MHz.... I think I'd wait and see OCN results.
> 
> Besides, Titan stock performance was reached at $650 back when the 780 launched...
Click to expand...

Alatar gonna be here 2 years from now defending Titan lol.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Overclocking head room looks troubling, let's hope that's not the case


yeah, but it looks like a job for a good cooler and some quality thermal paste. every nvidia card above the gtx760 needs BIG price cuts. nvidia please, bring sanity back to your gpu lineup. thy hand is forced on this day.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> Alatar gonna be here 2 years from now defending Titan lol.


hey, it's not like he's still in denial that AMD can get this kind of performance on 28nm. besides, his observations are spot on for the moment, until we get some 290X in here.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> NCIX only has sapphire cards right now


But they're the best...?


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> So if I don't plan on watercooling one of these cards, should I wait for non reference cards?? Just trying to decide whether or not to pull the trigger or wait.


i'd recommend waiting that extra for the non reference cards and the extra mark up to die off if you plan on ensuring to keep constant clock speeds.


----------



## jtom320

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> What happened to all the NVIDIA people "hurr if AMD can beat Titan they'll price similarly AMD is not a charity"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit of an HD 4870, as others have said, in more ways than one.
> 
> 1) At first, people were expecting 2304-2560 SPs and 48 ROPs -- turned out to be 2816/64, along with the added surprise of a 512 bit bus. Compare to the HD 4870 prior to launch; some rumors said 800 SPs and that figure was called outlandish and crazy
> 
> 2) This thing runs HOT
> 
> 3) AMD just demolished NVIDIA's entire high end pricing structure. 4870 came within 10% of GTX 280 for less than half the price, this beats the Titan by 5% for 55% of the price.
> 
> I'm looking forward to non-reference designs. Overclocking potential on the reference cooler will probably be severely limited.
> 
> NVIDIA people will make a big deal out of the 30-40W higher power consumption. Don't care. 95C is a bit troubling; non-reference cards will undoubtedly bring that down quite a bit, probably into the 70s I'd guess.
> 
> But the main thing is: a $1000 GPU just got beat by a $550 one.
> 
> Well done AMD.


I don't care about the power consumption but the OC results posted and the temps certainly are concerning. No question custom boards will make it better but not that much better. You can generally get the same results out of either or. The difference really being noise levels to get to the same level. Unless of course it's an 'extreme' model.

You are certainly 100% on the pricing though. I honestly think that if I were Nvidia I'd drop the 780 to 550 and the 780ti to 650. And then drop the Titan. It's not like you can cut the price by 400 dollars (which is what it needs) and the TI looks to make it redundant regardless of that fact.


----------



## $ilent

I went with HIS, it was the cheapest BF4 290x and comes with hynix


----------



## tictoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> EK-FC R290X please!


R9 290X FC Block


----------



## Pnanasnoic

Damn that thing runs hot!!? These reference cards won't last the year on air!  lol Very impressive price/performance though, it must be said.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> But they're the best...?


not so much when it comes to warranty...shipping both ways from home to taiwan and from taiwan to home...not the best practise i'd say


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> But they're the best...?


Not in a reference only release...everything is the same except warranty, and Sapphire doesn't exactly have the best. I own one, and I wish it had the killer warranty my XFX card had.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> That's what Arctic Cooling is for, better than all the custom air coolers at least for 7970, btw I wonder if the Accellero 7970 will fit on the R9 290x.


Or a waterblock. I like how 290X + WB costs just as much as a 780 alone, and 290X + full loop costs less than a Titan.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> Alatar gonna be here 2 years from now defending Titan lol.


I just care about performance. And since pretty much every review is always "we're going to overclock everything except the Titan" t's nice to remind people that Titans OC too.

The price on the 290X is is just bloody awesome. So it's good to see AMD having some HD4800 in them still.

However since I care about OC performance, I couldn't care less about stock benches. I just want to see these OC'd. If it turns out faster than my 1400MHz Titan then I'll gladly buy one. New toys are nice.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> Or a waterblock. I like how 290X + WB costs just as much as a 780 alone, and 290X + full loop costs less than a Titan.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> wizzard also gave us this:
> 
> 
> 
> Very close to 1.3v for 1200MHz.... (which he didn't reach obviously but assuming linear scaling from that)


Lets see your Titan do better on *Air*.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> i'd recommend waiting that extra for the non reference cards and the extra mark up to die off if you plan on ensuring to keep constant clock speeds.


Yea I think that's what I will do. I want to be able to overclock a bit but I do not plan on watercooling. Appreciate it.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There was a review the other day showing 1150 core / 1500 mem with a max temp of 70C with the fan at 100%. Wizzard used auto fan


That's not to bad then, although to be honest I rather not have a leaf blower in my computer but still if the clocks stayed steady at least that's something. Pcper made a good point which was after even 5 minutes of game play at the auto fan profile it downclocked itself quite a bit which if you look at the comparisons it brings it much closer to the 780 and titan although still beating it in the majority and being pretty much neck and neck in the rest.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-Hawaii-Review-Taking-TITANs/PowerTune-and-Variable-Clock-R


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I just care about performance. And since pretty much every review is always "we're going to overclock everything except the Titan" t's nice to remind people that Titans OC too.
> 
> The price on the 290X is is just bloody awesome. So it's good to see AMD having some HD4800 in them still.
> 
> However since I care about OC performance, I couldn't care less about stock benches. I just want to see these OC'd. If it turns out faster than my 1400MHz Titan then I'll gladly buy one. New toys are nice.


On the flip side, I could care less about OC performance on GPUs. I run cards at stock.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Lets see your Titan do better on *Air*.


Titans are easy to get over 1200MHz on air these days... And it wont require anywhere near 1.3v...

The 290X is an awesome card. But lets just hold our horses with some things until we have OC'd performance?


----------



## Disturbed117

Awesome!


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I just care about performance. And since pretty much every review is always "we're going to overclock everything except the Titan" t's nice to remind people that Titans OC too.
> 
> The price on the 290X is is just bloody awesome. So it's good to see AMD having some HD4800 in them still.
> 
> However since I care about OC performance, I couldn't care less about stock benches. I just want to see these OC'd. If it turns out faster than my 1400MHz Titan then I'll gladly buy one. New toys are nice.


Please we know you wouldnt buy one even if it was $200. You are so excited about 780ti









R9 290x already beats Titan without an overclock. Pretty much matches titan clock for clock.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Titans are easy to get over 1200MHz on air these days... And it wont require anywhere near 1.3v...
> 
> The 290X is an awesome card. But lets just hold our horses with some things until we have OC'd performance?


No need to hold horses. Your negativity wont kill my excitement.


----------



## moeqawama

Just ordered mine on Newegg












































Now I need you guys' help... I'm looking to watercool this sucker to get higher performance, but I have never watercooled anything. Can you guys point me in the right direction? I know I wanna get a full cover waterblock, but I have no idea where to go after that, in terms of tubes, pump, coolant, etc. Any advice you guys have would be much appreciated.

i7 3770K OC'd to 4.5 Ghz
Corsair H80i CPU Cooler
G.Skill Ripjaws-X 16GB (2 X 8) 2133 CL9
AMD R9 290X
Samsung 128 GB SSD (Boot Drive)
Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDD @7200 RPM
Corsair ATX Gold 750W PSU
Thermaltake Armor Revo Gene Case


----------



## wholeeo

So tempted to splurge on two,


----------



## zooterboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> But the main thing is: a $1000 GPU just got beat by a $550 one.
> 
> Well done AMD.


The question you forgot is: how much later? I mean, it's not like the Titan came out last month. It was 8 flipping months ago...

Still well done AMD, you managed to raise the bar with those clocks along with the 512 bit bus.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

$579 on the egg....http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150675

CONFIRMED


----------



## jincuteguy

Do you guys think Nvidia will do a price cut? Prob not, they will just release the 780ti and that's it.


----------



## jason387

Would love to see the Gtx 780 overclocked VS R9-290X overclocked


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Titans are easy to get over 1200MHz on air these days... And it wont require anywhere near 1.3v...
> 
> The 290X is an awesome card. But lets just hold our horses with some things until we have OC'd performance?


I wont hold my horses due to price but i'll agree on that. If the OCing potential is as low as reviews are achieving (reference or not) it might be in my best interest to wait for a 780 price drop. I'm in no way disappointed by this release. I'm ecstatic but if they can't at the very least hit 1100mhz with moderate cooling then well honestly it might not be the card for me. I'm still very interested in the 290's performance and headroom as well. There is also early drivers to consider.

Then again say the 290 matches the 780 and comes in at 400$ I'm not about to resist 800$ for two of them considering the performance.

Interesting bit from Guru's article which state's what AMD has said regarding temps.

*Again AMD On This:* We have designed the 290 Series to operate at a steady state of 95C. By running at 95C, we are both maximizing the performance and minimizing the acoustics of the product. Be assured, that 95C is a perfectly safe temperature at which the GPU can operate for its entire life. There is no technical reason to reduce the target temperature below 95C.


----------



## $ilent

Damm over 300 people vieweing this thread and as far as I can see...every single one of them is posting to say they bought a 290x. I think we took the whole 8000 BF4 allocation haha


----------



## Clocknut

$550, I wasnt expecting this low, lol that value just killed TITAN.


----------



## Robilar

I'm really curious to see frame pacing and micro stutter results in Crossfire... That is why I went back to Nvidia and SLI as my 7970's drove me nuts. If AMD can resolve this issue (even the latest drivers still have issues) then I will consider going back.

Awesome price to performance ratio though. Nvidia can release all the gaming toys they want but this will necessitate a pricing revamp.


----------



## theilya

so what do i need to buy to put this under water?


----------



## geoxile

Again, why is its performance 1.8x that of the 7870's when hardware-wise the 290x has >2x the components of a 7870.


----------



## bencher

I am so selling my 7970 and buying a R9 290 when it is released.


----------



## i7monkey

I feel shafted that I paid $660 for my 780, and now Nvidia is releasing the 780Ti, and now the 290X beats the TITAN for $550.

SCREW NVIDIA AND THEIR ******ED PRICING


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I'm really curious to see frame pacing and micro stutter results in Crossfire... That is why I went back to Nvidia and SLI as my 7970's drove me nuts. If AMD can resolve this issue (even the latest drivers still have issues) then I will consider going back.
> 
> Awesome price to performance ratio though. Nvidia can release all the gaming toys they want but this will necessitate a pricing revamp.


http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing


----------



## vs17e

Want to buy it so bad but dont know if i should wait for aftermarket cooling solutions


----------



## MaDeOfMoNeY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Titans are easy to get over 1200MHz on air these days... And it wont require anywhere near 1.3v...
> 
> The 290X is an awesome card. But lets just hold our horses with some things until we have OC'd performance?


Pretty much this, its like buying a new car the first model year then wondering why that car's manufacture keeps sending you recall notices. So lets wait some time until a lot more people get to use these cards before we jump the gun. But kuddos to AMD on your pricing, glad your showing NVIDIA how its done.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I feel shafted that I paid $660 for my 780, and now Nvidia is releasing the 780Ti, and now the 290X beats the TITAN for $550.
> 
> SCREW NVIDIA AND THEIR ******ED PRICING


You avatar proves otherwise lol









You can make a profit off the 780 before the value goes down.


----------



## Badness

Such a neat and new looking reference cooler, yet so inadequate for the job. I am probably the only person who thinks the 690/Titan style reference coolers are ugly, I really do prefer this R9 one. No green, no gaudy fake mechanical bits, no silver or chrome crap. Titan would look decent with a matte black paint job though! And since there's a window on the darn thing, Nvidia should nickel plate the heatsink like they did on the GTX 480.

[Good thing I can't be unrepped]


----------



## nagle3092

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I'm really curious to see frame pacing and micro stutter results in Crossfire... That is why I went back to Nvidia and SLI as my 7970's drove me nuts. If AMD can resolve this issue (even the latest drivers still have issues) then I will consider going back.
> 
> Awesome price to performance ratio though. Nvidia can release all the gaming toys they want but this will necessitate a pricing revamp.


I feel the same way, didnt look to bad in guru3Ds review but this line from [H] made me cringe....

"This technology is also compatible with AMD's software frame pacing technology. AMD's frame pacing technology is a software solution, and remains a software solution on the R9 290X and R9 290."


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Lets see your Titan do better on *Air*.


My Titan went over 17000 graphics points in 3DMark 11 with stock fan......with window cracked while it was still winter...


----------



## kikifq

I'm glad they seem to be a decent card, its just too bad crossfire doesnt work in windowed mode otherwise on water they would be a great buy


----------



## $ilent

guys I went with HIS 290X, which is cheaper than the sapphire, but for some reason the sapphire is the most popular. The HIS is a good choice aint it for UK customers? i.e having hynix, I heard warranty is good...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I'm really curious to see frame pacing and micro stutter results in Crossfire... That is why I went back to Nvidia and SLI as my 7970's drove me nuts. If AMD can resolve this issue (even the latest drivers still have issues) then I will consider going back.
> 
> Awesome price to performance ratio though. Nvidia can release all the gaming toys they want but this will necessitate a pricing revamp.


----------



## Chaython

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150675&nm_mc=OTC-sho6b0tCA&cm_mmc=OTC-sho6b0tCA-_-Video+Cards+-+AMD/ATI-_-XFX-_-14150675 shipping today canada


----------



## Fresh Sheep

Bit warm for my tastes lol. Can't wait to see how this beast OC's on water though, THAT's gonna be interesting!


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Do you guys think Nvidia will do a price cut? Prob not, they will just release the 780ti and that's it.


I'm holding out for a $100+ price drop for the 770, but I doubt nvidia will be so generous.


----------



## trippinonprozac

Great to see AMD respond with a quality product.

Hopefully we see some price drops now that they are well and truly competitive with the 780/titan.


----------



## Junktown

It's a shame reviewers are calling this a value based on the GTX 780 and Titan price points. Those prices were so ridiculous that no one should seriously use them as reference points. Still a pretty darn big flagship premium attached to this thing.


----------



## trippinonprozac

did anyone post overclocking results though??


----------



## GTR Mclaren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I feel shafted that I paid $660 for my 780, and now Nvidia is releasing the 780Ti, and now the 290X beats the TITAN for $550.
> 
> SCREW NVIDIA AND THEIR ******ED PRICING


this

Im waiting for BF to get a 760...but at 259$ against the 299$ 3GB 384bits 280x.....

Nvidia NEED badly a price drop in all the 700 line...like NOW


----------



## 2010rig

So it's as fast as Titan, and 10% faster than 780, and only $549? That's pure win.

780 needs to drop to $499, just like the 770 needs to drop to $300...

Based on AT's numbers...


----------



## TheDude26

I am tempted to jump on 4 of these suckers but then I am not sure that my dedicated 20amp circuit would even survive. I've got 2040mm of rad space I wonder if that is even enough to cool these suckers. Tempting....but I will wait until 780ti reviews come out.


----------



## Robilar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy*
> 
> http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing


"At 2560x1440, even though the R9 290X is faster than the GTX 780 in the single card results, when we double up the cards to CrossFire and SLI we see the GTX 780s take a small performance lead. There also appears to be some more "hiccups" in the CrossFire results that would indicate some stutter. Frame times are more consistent on the GTX 780 SLI results though the orange line representing the R9 290Xs in CrossFire are within reason as well."

Interesting, so individually the 290x is faster but paired up the 780's are still better at 2560x1440 than the 290x in crossfire.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junktown*
> 
> It's a shame reviewers are calling this a value based on the GTX 780 and Titan price points. Those prices were so ridiculous that no one should seriously use them as reference points. Still a pretty darn big flagship premium attached to this thing.


There really isn't.

The 7970 at $550 might have had but this 438mm^2 die really doesn't. It's priced competitively and reasonably low for its size.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

So, apparently this card, with the reference cooler, is damn near requiring it to be on a water-block......at stock. That's a bit disappointing.

Otherwise, sexy price and performance.


----------



## Dart06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> "At 2560x1440, even though the R9 290X is faster than the GTX 780 in the single card results, when we double up the cards to CrossFire and SLI we see the GTX 780s take a small performance lead. There also appears to be some more "hiccups" in the CrossFire results that would indicate some stutter. Frame times are more consistent on the GTX 780 SLI results though the orange line representing the R9 290Xs in CrossFire are within reason as well."
> 
> Interesting, so individually the 290x is faster but paired up the 780's are still better at 2560x1440 than the 290x in crossfire.


Chalked up to drivers. I'm sure if the 290x has been out as long as the 780, frame timing would improve.


----------



## wermad

Runs hotter and sucks up more juice, but damn @ $549 USD and it can pull ahead of a $1K gpu!

Sucks about the power consumption thing. Gonna have to fork out a 1.5kw for quads.

Impressive stuff


----------



## Dmac73

Beastly performance > price ratio...

Regret ordering two 7950's the other day...


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> I'm holding out for a $100+ price drop for the 770, but I doubt nvidia will be so generous.


nvidia's response: if you buy our cards, you'll save money in the long run on electricity


----------



## theilya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> "At 2560x1440, even though the R9 290X is faster than the GTX 780 in the single card results, when we double up the cards to CrossFire and SLI we see the GTX 780s take a small performance lead. There also appears to be some more "hiccups" in the CrossFire results that would indicate some stutter. Frame times are more consistent on the GTX 780 SLI results though the orange line representing the R9 290Xs in CrossFire are within reason as well."
> 
> Interesting, so individually the 290x is faster but paired up the 780's are still better at 2560x1440 than the 290x in crossfire.


probably due to drivers maybe?


----------



## Clukos

The one thing i don't like about this card is the high temperatures, whether it's ok or not with AMD i wouldn't want to push that thing more than what it already is at stock. I want to see how this card performs under water!


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> guys I went with HIS 290X, which is cheaper than the sapphire, but for some reason the sapphire is the most popular. The HIS is a good choice aint it for UK customers? i.e having hynix, I heard warranty is good...


theres a reason why sapphire is labeled AMD's leading partner in # of gpu sales and why sapphire is now AMD's chosen company to be the exclusive distribution partner for current firepro cards, Sapphire has generally become more of a consistent brand. the only real thing sapphire has going against it is sporadic possibility of memory changes and that its 2 year warranty vs 3 for some of the others.


----------



## theilya

I assume 750 PSU is enough for a single card?


----------



## Robilar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dart06*
> 
> Chalked up to drivers. I'm sure if the 290x has been out as long as the 780, frame timing would improve.


Um, how long were the 7970's out before the 7 series from Nvidia? In all that time they still could not get it working smoothly (and I should know I had a pair of 7970's for quite awhile).


----------



## scorpscarx

Anyone have any ideas on how long Amazon usually lags behind Newegg on hardware launches like this, personally I stopped using Newegg quite a while ago.


----------



## Badness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> this
> 
> Im waiting for BF to get a 760...but at 259$ against the 299$ 3GB 384bits 280x.....
> 
> Nvidia NEED badly a price drop in all the 700 line...like NOW


If all you care about is BF4, get AMD. It is the one title where they _have_ to implement Mantle well. They've been touting BF4's Mantle capability a lot. I just bought a 7970 Lightning for that reason. I was going to get a GTX 760 4GB (because BF4 uses more than 2GB even at 1080p) because I want SLI's reliability. But honestly between their improving drivers, Mantle, and RadeonPro I think I don't have anything to worry about.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheDude26*
> 
> I am tempted to jump on 4 of these suckers but then I am not sure that my dedicated 20amp circuit would even survive. I've got 2040mm of rad space I wonder if that is even enough to cool these suckers. Tempting....but I will wait until 780ti reviews come out.


I'm going to be running a pair of quad 140mm monstas in an attempt to cool 4 of them


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> nvidia's response: if you buy our cards, you'll save money in the long run on electricity


I don't pay the electricity bill so why should I care?









Besides, with a pair of 290xs I could power a steam engine with their heat!


----------



## NJsFinest24

I guess I am waiting for the non reference cards to come out. Hopefully they are out soon.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SOCOM_HERO*
> 
> I can dig it. Good price, not a fan of the cooler design, but hopefully aftermarket cards and high binned OC cards will look better for a bit more. But for now, without Nvidia announcing what I think is a price cut as a matter of when not if, this is a Titan killer. If Titan and 780 come down in price to match the 290X, then it will be a very, very interesting black Friday!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit for OP: Paul's Hardware (guy from newegg) review is up:


Thanks, added.


----------



## jincuteguy

GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> nvidia's response: if you buy our cards, you'll save money in the long run on electricity


You may actually save on electricity going with the 290x. Winter is coming,


----------



## Robilar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


Unless Crossfire improves and non reference cooling solutions come out, a pair of SLI 780's is a better option than a pair of R290x. The question is, will people pay a $200 difference for a cooler, quieter, more stable performance?

Single card vs. single card the 290x is going to kill 780 sales at current prices.


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


There's a reason a person will buy a "luxury" car for thousands of dollars more even if the performance is the same or less. One looks a hell of a lot nicer.

The stock 770/780/titan cooler is a piece of art imo.


----------



## $ilent

Memory chips:

Asus - Hynix
Sapphire - Hynix
HIS - Elpida
Gigabyte - Elpida
MSI - Unknown


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


Those prices will drop. AMD now has competing products. Thats the cycle.

Still, 290x is ~Titan performance for half the cost. That's extremely impressive.

nVidia price drops incoming... If you want to stick with Green, you'll be in luck.


----------



## Pnanasnoic

Newegg should offer a BF4 for waterblock trade-in program. These things are like the surface of the Sun - stock!!


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


For about $700.00 a pop i would, not at the Grand that i paid on release....


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


You would have to be insane to at this point. Even if they outrun the 290X when OC'd (and that remains to be seen), it won't be significant enough to warrant the price premium.

Nvidia will be forced to lower the price on the 780 at the very least. The 780 Ti might take over the 650 spot if it performs well. I have no idea what they're going to do with Titan. They may just leave it as a niche product at 1k for semi-pros and compute users, but I'm not sure how the 290X compares there.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Memory chips:
> 
> Asus - Hynix
> Sapphire - Hynix
> HIS - Elpida
> Gigabyte - Elpida
> MSI - Unknown


Thanks for that. So it either you go with Asus or Sapphire


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> Unless Crossfire improves and non reference cooling solutions come out, a pair of SLI 780's is a better option than a pair of R290x. The question is, will people pay a $200 difference for a cooler, quieter, more stable performance?
> 
> Single card vs. single card the 290x is going to kill 780 sales at current prices.


Anyone who can afford sli 780s or 290x should be able to afford 2 waterblocks and a loop. Based on the linear graph of voltage scaling and how terrible the stock cooler is, this card is going to most likely be a beast under water.


----------



## Badness

the R9 290 non-X only has 2560 cores as opposed to the 290X's 2816.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> That's what Arctic Cooling is for, better than all the custom air coolers at least for 7970, btw I wonder if the Accellero 7970 will fit on the R9 290x.


Accelero is wonderful but it's unfortunate that none of the AMD brands have warranty that permits changing the cooler :/ On Nvidia side there's Evga.

Very nice GPU, awful cooler. I don't get it, if Nvidia can do it why AMD is unable to make decent reference cooler? 6970 and 7970 were similar, awful leaf blowers.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Damn the price is great. Now i can buy my PS4 and 290X at the same time


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Memory chips:
> 
> Asus - Hynix
> Sapphire - Hynix
> HIS - Elpida
> Gigabyte - Elpida
> MSI - Unknown


avoid HIS and gigabyte like the plague...


----------



## Fniz92

Nvidia: Guys, the titan consumes less power. In 90 years you would have earned the 450 $!


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlyingSolo*
> 
> Thanks for that. So it either you go with Asus or Sapphire


Pretty much yeah, I went with HIS initially but trying to get it swapped now. Damm internet lied! Everywhere I checked said HIS had hynix!


----------



## dookiebot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wholeeo*
> 
> You may actually save on electricity going with the 290x. Winter is coming,


Well played.


----------



## carlhil2

If these cards dropped at the same time, the 290X would be going for $650.00 with the Titan going for $800.00...


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> guys I went with HIS 290X, which is cheaper than the sapphire, but for some reason the sapphire is the most popular. The HIS is a good choice aint it for UK customers? i.e having hynix, I heard warranty is good...


Didn't OCUK crack open some of their 290X's and find the HIS had elpida? I might be mistaken

E: didn't read the full thread


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> Accelero is wonderful but it's unfortunate that none of the AMD brands have warranty that permits changing the cooler :/ On Nvidia side there's Evga.
> 
> Very nice GPU, awful cooler. I don't get it, if Nvidia can do it why AMD is unable to make decent reference cooler? 6970 and 7970 were similar, awful leaf blowers.


Use a small pair of pliers and unscrew the mounting screw without damaging the warranty sticker.


----------



## AMC

2 of these plus water can't wait. Reminds of the 2900 pro I have. Great over locker with cooling


----------



## Dmac73

Were the temperatures reported with stock fan curve?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Ok so whos able to buy from Newegg.. It still saying autonotify..


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> Accelero is wonderful but it's unfortunate that none of the AMD brands have warranty that permits changing the cooler :/ On Nvidia side there's Evga.
> 
> Very nice GPU, awful cooler. I don't get it, if Nvidia can do it why AMD is unable to make decent reference cooler? 6970 and 7970 were similar, awful leaf blowers.


Yeah that's an unfortunate oversight. The ref coolers look amazing imo, but they're insanely loud (63.8 dbA @ load in "Uber mode" according to HWC) and the card _still_ runs in the 90s.

I wouldn't touch these ref cards unless you're going under water. If I was buying a 290X personally I'd be waiting for custom cards.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Taint3dBulge*
> 
> Ok so whos able to buy from Newegg.. It still saying autonotify..


For some reason if you click on the sapphire BF4 edition it has price 579$ and will let you add it to cart and order.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202058


----------



## malpais

Officially craps all over Nvidias lineup


----------



## Waleh

What about the R290?


----------



## th3illusiveman

LOL, way to go AMD! I'm so proud they didn't go the greedy way Nvidia did. Another blow to those who supported the Titans ridiculous price gouging.









AMD gets a







for this and another one for good measure!


----------



## Faksnima

Is this for sale in the states yet? Waiting for newegg/amazon listings. Gotta sell my 680 asap







.


----------



## DOOOLY

If I CF 290x would it do good for 120hz monitor ?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> GTx 780 still at $650 and Titan still at $1000. Do you guys think ppl still buy those cards over the 290X?


Quote:


> Anyone who buys a 780 right now is a complete ******﻿ fanboy.







Taken from this youtube video. LOL


----------



## Stay Puft

You need to click on the individual card on newegg and you will be able to buy it.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I'm really curious to see frame pacing and micro stutter results in Crossfire... That is why I went back to Nvidia and SLI as my 7970's drove me nuts. If AMD can resolve this issue (even the latest drivers still have issues) then I will consider going back.
> 
> Awesome price to performance ratio though. Nvidia can release all the gaming toys they want but this will necessitate a pricing revamp.


Pretty solid CF performance: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,1.html


----------



## $ilent

We are approaching 500 members viewing this thread now...OCN is going to crash!


----------



## Dmac73

I'm going to enjoy watching this thread explode in the next couple days


----------



## caenlen

only 1-2 fps faster in most games, some games much faster but very few... and doesnt seem like it OC's past 1175... whereas my 780 hits 1300 core... so :/


----------



## Phenomanator53

Dam, this was literally sold out within minutes of release at pccasegear.com ; hope the 290 will have more stock when it is released.

p.s. where are the haters and fanbois?

edit: nvm found them. this is gonna be an intersting argument


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> avoid Titan like the plague...


corrected


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> only 1-2 fps faster in most games, some games much faster but very few... and doesnt seem like it OC's past 1075... whereas my 780 hits 1300 core... so :/


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> only 1-2 fps faster in most games, some games much faster but very few... and doesnt seem like it OC's past 1175... whereas my 780 hits 1300 core... so :/


You cant base an entire gpu OC potential on a handful of reviews dude...plus nobody has done it on water yet IIRCC.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junktown*
> 
> It's a shame reviewers are calling this a value based on the GTX 780 and Titan price points. Those prices were so ridiculous that no one should seriously use them as reference points. Still a pretty darn big flagship premium attached to this thing.


You mean the price GTX 580 3GB was at for quite some time and then the 7970? I mean I'd love for it to be 400 or even 450 but there is the increased cost of 28nm to consider.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> You cant base an entire gpu OC potential on a handful of reviews dude...plus nobody has done it on water yet IIRCC.


Agreed from the HARDOCP review increasing the fan speed to 100% in FC3 netted them a 10% boost. These things might just need to be cool much like the 7970s to retain high OCs. Or at least high for Hawaii considering the temp, performance, and power usage.


----------



## theilya

is newegg customer support down?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theilya*
> 
> is newegg customer support down?


Its 1am. They won't be open till tomorrow


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theilya*
> 
> is newegg customer support down?


They're all on break purchasing the 290x


----------



## theilya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Its 1am. They won't be open till tomorrow


i thought chat is 24/7


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> corrected


Mostly correct these days.

If you want much better stock perf than the 290X and as high OC'd perf as the Titan buy a 780 classified.

However most Titan owners have had their cards for 8 months by now... Well, 1 day shy of 8 months. Titans went on sale on the 25th of February.


----------



## bencher

Look at that compute performance.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/18


----------



## BigMack70

Like I'd been saying all along... $550 is the sweet spot for this card. Similar performance to custom 780s/Titan but late to the game and with lousy power/temps/noise comparatively.

Well done AMD with that pricing... now everyone can stop having their wallets raped by Nvidia because they have no competition. I hope this is good riddance to the days of stupidly overpriced $1000 GPUs.


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Agreed from teh HARDOCP review increasing the fan speed to 100% in FC3 netted them a 10% boost. These things might just need to be cool much like the 7970s to retain high OCs. Or at least high for Hawaii considering the temp, performance, and power usage.


Running 100% fan is not practical


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> Pretty solid CF performance: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,1.html


That scaling,


----------



## caenlen

12 left for sale on tigerdirect's website.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/campaigns/deals.asp?campaignid=2733&cm_re=Homepage-_-Spot%2001a-_-CatId_campaign_amd_r9Launch

r9 290x with bf4.


----------



## Evil Penguin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Look at that compute performance.
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/18


There is certainly room for improvement.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> nvidia's response: if you buy our cards, you'll save money in the long run on electricity


Yes, 10 years or so with current Titan price to get down to 290X price through electricity savings. Maybe 6-7 if you are in a high electricity cost area. ;p


----------



## rubicsphere

Is that Joakim Noah face a good one or a bad one??


----------



## overpass

Wow AMD did it. $550 for flagship is where it's at. It is still long ways out, but I can't wait to see Mantle harnessed by the card. Mind boggles.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Running 100% fan is not practical


I never said it was practical, my point was that these might be able to OC better and retain stability the lower the temp. Much like Tahiti and High OCs. I'm referring to water of course though, not air.


----------



## NJsFinest24

I need a non reference card since I wont be watercooling lol.


----------



## fleetfeather

Glad I pre-bought through BLT, my nets been down all day so I'm stuck on mobile. Are there any options left for those who wanted to buy in NA?


----------



## wholeeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rubicsphere*
> 
> Is that Joakim Noah face a good one or a bad one??


Unbelievably good,


----------



## Renairy

$550 you say? oh on planet earth thats good price.
But here in planet Australia its *$700*, overpriced, just like everything else.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25510


----------



## bencher

I cant help but notice how power the 7990 is.


----------



## Blindrage606

780 Ti price?

Great job AMD


----------



## 6steven9

Just Heard the Fan speed at 55% not even close to 100% they really need to let aftermarket coolers on this thing: Headphones users beware......I wasn't ready


----------



## altsanity

DO WANT 290X


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Nearly 1/3 of this forums registered members are on this thread right now... WINNING


----------



## maneil99

Debated selling my 780. However with it running 1256/6600 witha modded bios I think i'll stick with it. With the temps of the 290x i think the extra performance of my would make me regret buying a slower card even if I made a buck or two


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *6steven9*
> 
> Just Heard the Fan speed at 55% not even close to 100% they really need to let aftermarket coolers on this thing: Headphones users beware......I wasn't ready


Ofcourse it wont sound like that in a case.


----------



## Stay Puft

I want to see a 100% fan video


----------



## 6steven9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I want to see a 100% fan video


I dont' think you do............


----------



## Disturbed117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *6steven9*
> 
> Just Heard the Fan speed at 55% not even close to 100% they really need to let aftermarket coolers on this thing: Headphones users beware......I wasn't ready


I really wish reviewers would do these tests while the cards are inside a case.


----------



## TooBAMF

Very impressed by AMD, especially with that price









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> However most Titan owners have had their cards for 8 months by now... Well, 1 day shy of 8 months. Titans went on sale on the 25th of February.


Yeah, buying a Titan in February would be like buying Maxwell today, I'd pay $1000 for that


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Renairy*
> 
> $550 you say? oh on planet earth thats good price.
> But here in planet Australia its *$700*, overpriced, just like everything else.
> 
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25510


Minimum wage in AU is 50% higher than NA, iirc


----------



## CapnCrunch10

Very impressive AMD. Love the price.


----------



## wermad

Man, that power consumption is killing me







. 7970 and GTX 480/580 all over again









need to track down 1.5kw psu now and say goodbye to my bi gtx 360


----------



## ZealotKi11er

All I can say is good work AMD.

Now back to reality. Thanks to the Titan 550 is cheap no go figure.

This is OCN. The battle starts once overclocking is ON.

Hopefully I will be able to get one to test it against my HD 7970s


----------



## Tatakai All

Back to AMD I go! I was planning on buying this card regardless since it's aptly named Hawaii, but the performance is a nice bonus. As for the high temps it might be about time to do a custom loop and go the way of the water.


----------



## NateST

Excellent price! I wish the performance was better however given the development cycle time, hopefully putting them under water makes them OC to the moon. I was hoping for 15%+ Titan performance... if that was the case, the Classy would be back on the market. Although I really feel that this still makes the 780Ti redundant, considering it's not going to be faster than Titan if the purposed specs are accurate.


----------



## NateN34

Wow, beats the titan and keeps up in a lot of games! And only $549! The performance should only improve too, since these are early drivers.

Definitely will be my next card.


----------



## 8mm

Faster than 780 & Titan for half the price of Titan. Damn. These benches aren't even in games where Mantle has been implemented yet so I expect some severe differences in FPS between these cards and Titan, especially considering the brute force these cards are already bringing to the table in reference form with early drivers. Mature Drivers + Mantle = Beast Mode Activated!


----------



## FlyingSolo

Any idea how long it will take for asus 290x directcu to come out. Damn the fan is loud on 50% now think how it will be on 100% if your not water cooling like myself


----------



## Schottky

Techpowerup has these Catalyst OC limits listed:



I wonder if it's even possible to get these cards to these speeds


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I want to see a 100% fan video


----------



## paulshardware

<3 you guys!
Thanks for posting my video!


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schottky*
> 
> Techpowerup has these Catalyst OC limits listed:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if it's even possible to get these cards to these speeds


----------



## Stay Puft

P
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlyingSolo*
> 
> Any idea how long it will take for asus 290x directcu to come out. Damn the fan is loud on 50% now think how it will be on 100% if your not water cooling like myself


Buy the sapphire and put this on it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186052


----------



## ejb222

IIRC Titan didn't look like a strong OCer at first. But the OCN pros always seem to find the secret to performance. Can't wait to see this in the hands of some capable OCers. 95degrees seems high, but if the card is meant to run that hot, just make sure you have good case cooling


----------



## AMC

Anyone with 7970's on water in Toronto selling let me know


----------



## Pnanasnoic

$550 seems like a great deal to many simply because the Titans were priced so high. Nvidia has done AMD a tremendous favor by selling any Titans at that price. ...It's almost like it was all set up beforehand... Like, maybe they talk to one another about pricing strategies. Wouldn't they both benefit in cycles, tick tock? lmao Gwiz


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*


LMAO, it was the same with 6970, why the hell do they even include the pos cooler's at all?

Like the second thing I'll do is rip it off...


----------



## Vowels

Good stuff, AMD. It beats the Titan and is priced comparatively low. This means we can finally get back to more sane prices for flagship cards.

Hoping this means the 780 Ti will release around $570-$600 if it's a tiny bit faster and the regular 780 gets pushed down to $450 - $479 to battle the regular R9 290. GTX 770 also needs to come down to $300 or the 280X will walk all over it for value.


----------



## Iris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulshardware*
> 
> <3 you guys!
> Thanks for posting my video!


OMG it's Paul!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

This is a card that is made for watercooling. Really can't wait until somebody like TSM gets a hold of some and OC's them properly. They won't beat 1400MHz Titans I don't think but they may be closer at high resolutions than I think...


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulshardware*
> 
> <3 you guys!
> Thanks for posting my video!


Paul I've been watching you for years (on newegg) and frankly when I see your reviews I don't smell dirty bias one way or another. You just lay out the facts. More reviewers should probably take your lead.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

It only matches Titan at 1440p. 1080p is where true PC gamers are and it's the most important resolution.


----------



## TheReciever

Why is everyone complaining about temps? I have missed my crazy heatsinks, vrm heatsinks, core heatsinks, pcb heatsinks, heck bring out the bracket and fan heatsinks for this sucker and make things interesting again lol

In all seriousness though, i don't like amd at all, but I'm very excited about them disrupting the going trend of late. +1 rep AMD


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulshardware*
> 
> <3 you guys!
> Thanks for posting my video!


can't tell if it's the real Paul...

Nevertheless, if you're the real Paul you should show us how loud the fans can get. Many would enjoy that info.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> IIRC Titan didn't look like a strong OCer at first. But the OCN pros always seem to find the secret to performance. Can't wait to see this in the hands of some capable OCers. 95degrees seems high, but if the card is meant to run that hot, just make sure you have good case cooling


That will only be the case if AMD locked down the voltage and TDP usage like nvidia did.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> LMAO, it was the same with 6970, why the hell do they even include the pos cooler's at all?
> 
> Like the second thing I'll do is rip it off...


I'd hate to say this but from the sound videos of the 290X, they're louder than these 2 I have in my rig right now :/



I don't even know whats louder now....my HE01 Heligon or the 290X :/


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> It only matches Titan at 1440p. 1080p is where true PC gamers are and it's the most important resolution.


If you're spending 600 dollars on a video card you really should be at 1440 or 1600. If you're at 1080p you don't need more then a 280X


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> P
> Buy the sapphire and put this on it.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186052


Wow I am about to buy one and this cooler but I have no idea how to install this lol.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulshardware*
> 
> <3 you guys!
> Thanks for posting my video!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Iris*
> 
> OMG it's Paul!
Click to expand...

Haha exactly what I was going to say.


----------



## xSociety

Any good guides on water-cooling the GPU only? Lol


----------



## Pheozero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> If you're spending 600 dollars on a video card you really should be at 1440 or 1600. If you're at 1080p you don't need more then a 280X


Since I prefer playing FPS games, I'd like to have 120hz+ while playing on the highest absolute quality.


----------



## maneil99

AMD's stock cooler is completely overwhelmed with the heat output of the card during voltage tweaking, though. Even at 100%, it could barely keep the card from overheating and was noisier than any cooler I've ever experienced. My neighbors actually complained, asking why I used power tools that late at night.

Power draw also increases immensely, going from just above 400 W for the whole system to around 650 W! To conclude, I expect extreme overlclockers with access to liquid nitrogen to love this card. Everyone else will probably find voltage tuning beyond +0.05 V to be too hot and too noisy.

Seems like loud and fast is the way to go. Meh still feel like 780 will end up beating this. Extra 120$ would have went to that power bill anyway. Or maybe this will provide heating for the winter







780 ACX was already faster then the titan


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Screw it, Im waiting for a DCII or a Matrix.. I want better temps..


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> If you're spending 600 dollars on a video card you really should be at 1440 or 1600. If you're at 1080p you don't need more then a 280X


False.

I prefer 120Hz over any high res monitor out there. I play to win, the more the frames, the better.

Bring on Mantle!!


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Wow I am about to buy one and this cooler but I have no idea how to install this lol.


Unscrew 4 mounting screws
Pull off stock heatsink
Clean die
Apply MX4
Mount heatsink
Screw in 4 screws

Pm me with any questions. I've installed the xtreme iii plenty of times. Ohh and get some extra mx4

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186038


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Taint3dBulge*
> 
> Screw it, Im waiting for a DCII or a Matrix.. I want better temps..


Agreed


----------



## formula m

As I had thought, the TITAN is now irrelevant for gaming, as NVidia already hinted at, gaming is the 780ti's role.

What if:

R9 290x @ $549

780 @ $499

780ti @ 599


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Unscrew 4 mounting screws
> Pull off stock heatsink
> Clean die
> Apply MX4
> Mount heatsink
> Screw in 4 screws
> 
> Pm me with any questions. I've installed the xtreme iii plenty of times. Ohh and get some extra mx4
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186038


Oh wow thanks, doesnt seem too difficult then.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Taint3dBulge*
> 
> Screw it, Im waiting for a DCII or a Matrix.. I want better temps..


Same....This stock cooler alone is asking for AMD Housefires TM


----------



## Vowels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> As I had thought, the TITAN is now irrelevant for gaming, as NVidia already hinted at, gaming is the 780ti's role.
> 
> What if:
> 
> R9 290x @ $549
> 
> 780 @ $499
> 780ti @ 599


I think 780 @ $499 might be just a tad too high if AMD sets the 290 at ~$479. With the pricing of the 290X, I wouldn't be surprised that the 290 is as low as $449


----------



## jomama22

Got to order 2 from newegg (3 with 2 separate accounts but we will see how that goes). Ordered 3 through tigerdirect.com. Best part is, my discover-it card has 5% cashback for online orders this quarter PLUS 5% cash back for tiger direct.

So I essentially got 10% off from tiger direct. Flip the bf4 codes for $40 and im looking at <$500 each on the tiger direct order and <$520 for the newegg.

Also got three blocks from frozencpu and some gelid gc-3 as well.

Next week will be fantastic.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> P
> Buy the sapphire and put this on it.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186052


Thanks. +rep. I now need to find this in uk


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Same....This stock cooler alone is asking for AMD Housefires TM


I'll have to rename my sig rig "Housefires Evolved" lol


----------



## G3RG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Same....This stock cooler alone is asking for AMD Housefires TM


I wonder where that joke came from....


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Same....This stock cooler alone is asking for AMD Housefires TM


LOL... Yup, my 6950 was referance and as ok to overclock, but was just ugly.. Now the looks of the matrix card, HUGE, is very sexy and my case has so much free space it would make it look less bare. Maybe in a year get a 2nd for the hell of it.. who knows.


----------



## Vlasov_581

oh my god why is 770 SLI so fast????????


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Oh wow thanks, doesnt seem too difficult then.


Actually very easy and is whisper quiet even at 100% load


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Mostly correct these days.
> 
> If you want much better stock perf than the 290X and as high OC'd perf as the Titan buy a 780 classified.
> 
> However most Titan owners have had their cards for 8 months by now... Well, 1 day shy of 8 months. Titans went on sale on the 25th of February.


NEWS FLASH:

The TITAN is now irrelevant, due to $549 R9 290x's...

(for NVidia gaming, plz see 780ti, thnx)

I just sold mine 3 days ago for $850, & now have $300 extra for a second card. (BF4 rig)


----------



## wermad

This card was meant for a block







. Stock cooler, fogehabuhteet









Custom coolers and AC should be out soon. Amd reference coolers have always left a bit to be desired of. Nothing new.

Power consumption....still.....


----------



## Roaches

I have a RV01 sitting around....though I don't think its 90 degree mount design is gonna do any justice against that volcanic beast. Especially when I want to CF them...


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> NEWS FLASH:
> 
> The TITAN is now irrelevant, due to $549 R9 290x's...
> (for NVidia gaming, plz see 780ti, thnx)
> 
> I just sold mine 3 days ago for $850, & now have $300 extra for a second card. (BF4 rig)


Good job.


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vowels*
> 
> I think 780 @ $499 might be just a tad too high if AMD sets the 290 at ~$479. With the pricing of the 290X, I wouldn't be surprised that the 290 is as low as $449


499$ makes sense for the 780. Its about anywhere from tied to 8% slower at 1080p. With ACX models coming in at 519$ that will beat the 290x at 1080p it will be a good competitor.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> Got to order 2 from newegg (3 with 2 separate accounts but we will see how that goes). Ordered 3 through tigerdirect.com. Best part is, my discover-it card has 5% cashback for online orders this quarter PLUS 5% cash back for tiger direct.
> 
> So I essentially got 10% off from tiger direct. Flip the bf4 codes for $40 and im looking at <$500 each on the tiger direct order and <$520 for the newegg.
> 
> Also got three blocks from frozencpu and some gelid gc-3 as well.
> 
> Next week will be fantastic.


Newegg doesn't list any right now.


----------



## NJsFinest24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Actually very easy and is whisper quiet even at 100% load


So its like an extra $50 to do this. Non reference cards should be more than that over the reference cards right??


----------



## sumitlian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schottky*
> 
> Techpowerup has these Catalyst OC limits listed:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if it's even possible to get these cards to these speeds


8448 GFLOPS









512 GB/s









And







I am laughing on those who think that they now will have to overclock their $1000 Titan to beat $550 290x............yeah go on








Then again I believe some upcoming drivers from AMD will be enough for their overclocked Titan


----------



## numero-uno

What an awful card.

Too hot and too loud.

Everyone should by a 780 with custom cooler for a few bucks more.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> I'll have to rename my sig rig "Housefires Evolved" lol


Please do









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> I wonder where that joke came from....


From the good ol Fermi days....


----------



## th3illusiveman

Well now that the hype has worn off me... this thing *needs* a good cooler. I wouldn't ever buy a reference design card with heat that high. This is when water blocks will really come in handy.

Can't wait to see what the non-reference cards are able to do, there is a 10% boost in performance from "UBER Mode" by just turning the fan up to 100% so this thing is clearly temp limited at the time being. Plus there is that monstrous power consumption. This thing truly is *AMDs GTX480* lol. But for Titan performance at $450 LESS it can easily be forgiven.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> So its like an extra $50 to do this. Non reference cards should be more than that over the reference cards right??


I used that cooler before and even at 100% I couldn't here it.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Actually very easy and is whisper quiet even at 100% load


Do you even know if that twin turbo is compatible with the 290x?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *numero-uno*
> 
> What an awful card.
> 
> Too hot and too loud.
> 
> Everyone should by a 780 with custom cooler for a few bucks more.


----------



## Vowels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Actually very easy and is whisper quiet even at 100% load
> 
> 
> 
> So its like an extra $50 to do this. Non reference cards should be more than that over the reference cards right??
Click to expand...

I see reference design + custom cooling + small factory OC usually $20 - $30 extra over the plain reference card.


----------



## bencher

The real winner will be the 290 imo.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Unscrew 4 mounting screws
> Pull off stock heatsink
> Clean die
> Apply MX4
> Mount heatsink
> Screw in 4 screws
> 
> Pm me with any questions. I've installed the xtreme iii plenty of times. Ohh and get some extra mx4
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186038


Thanks +rep for this


----------



## Yungbenny911

GeeZ! 550$







. At least this keeps GPU's from going up to 5,000$ in 3 years from now, because if you let Nvidia, they will release another GPU and call that a "Monster" with 2000$ price tag







.

I can't blame them though. We all know that this 290X won't be going for 550$ if it was released about 6months before the Titan.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Do you even know if that twin turbo is compatible with the 290x?


Why wouldn't it be? I don't believe the mounts have changed from the 280X to 290X. If the mounts are different arctic will come out with a new backplate and send it to you for free


----------



## looniam

excuse me as i continue to lead the geforce cheer leading squad . . .


----------



## piledragon

let's see, price- check, performance- check, brand new and going to get better over time (with driver updates)- check , enter mantle= even more performance- check

you know what this means,,, *NVIDIA GOT OWNED*







, there's just no other way to say it. AMD did a fantastic job.









(whispers- i can't wait to check ebay tomorrow)


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The real winner will be the 290 imo.


If its around $400 that is....A CF 7870 in a single card is a pure winner in my book


----------



## mylilpony

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*


theres always one of em in every thread


----------



## tpi2007

Just a heads up:

I removed Anandtech's benchmarks graphs from the OP and added Tom's Hardware ones because I noticed there was a big discrepancy in the results, with Anandtech's showing the 290X not being able to pull so much ahead, turns out the test system on Tom's Hardware is better, so it will give a more accurate result of what people here on OCN will achieve.

Anandtech: 4960X @ 4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 1866 Mhz 9-10-9-26

Tom's: 4960X @ 4.3 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 2133 Mhz 9-11-10-28


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> As I had thought, the TITAN is now irrelevant for gaming, as NVidia already hinted at, gaming is the 780ti's role.
> 
> What if:
> 
> R9 290x @ $549
> 
> 780 @ $499
> 780ti @ 599


The thing is 290X has 4GB plus 512-Bit. Good for multi monitor setups or games like skyrim with mods


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Do you even know if that twin turbo is compatible with the 290x?


This is what the card truly needs... Im sure it will be compatiable within afew weeks, or a bracket will just need to be ordered..



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186067


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Newegg doesn't list any right now.


you have to click the actual card...some have been order able since 12:00 AM est


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zooterboy*
> 
> The question you forgot is: how much later? I mean, it's not like the Titan came out last month. It was 8 flipping months ago...


You also seems to forgot one more question: Titan is still at the same price since it was released 8 flipping months ago...


----------



## Stay Puft

Am I the only one who thinks anandtechs reviews have gone downhill a lot in the past year?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Why wouldn't it be? I don't believe the mounts have changed from the 280X to 290X. If the mounts are different arctic will come out with a new backplate and send it to you for free


The die is a completely diferent shape and size. I gaurantee that it wont fit without spacers or some kind of modification


----------



## damnwebsite

Out of curiosity would you reckon running this card under water (but keeping it at stock) is a good idea just to cool it off?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

I'm happy that this card came out cheaper than the 780 (hopefully this forces NVidia to lower their prices) but those temps do scare me. What if you're not a water cooler? 95*C in a hot tropical (think 80 min humidity each day with 90-95F) country really ends up being more hot than 95C in real time. I'm hoping the aftermarket coolers/edition lower that down between 10-15C.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> He didn't. He hit 1125MHz with uber bios and 1145MHz with quiet mode.
> 
> However if we believe his voltage scaling graph 1200MHz would have required just shy of 1.3v.
> That'll need ~1.3v for 1200MHz.... I think I'd wait and see OCN results.
> 
> Besides, Titan stock performance was reached at *$650 back when the 780 launched*...


Oh NOW he says it







(After those endless debates with "GoldenTiger" lol) Oh Alatar, you're too much.... AMD have proven you wrong so many times now with this card it's borderline comical.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> The die is a completely diferent shape and size. I gaurantee that it wont fit without spacers or some kind of modification


Ill test fit it for everyone when mine arrive in a few days. I have the twin turbo II and xtreme iii

Edit

The mounts look very similar to me in the pics


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yungbenny911*
> 
> GeeZ! 550$
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . At least this keeps GPU's from going up to 5,000$ in 3 years from now, because if you let Nvidia, they will release another GPU and call that a "Monster" with 2000$ price tag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I can't blame them though. We all know that this 290X won't be going for 550$ if it was released about 6months before the Titan.


Now just imagine how much Titan would have been, had AMD stuck to their yearly release schedule, and released the 290X January 2013.

Titan would've been $699 max. NVIDIA would've released the 780 for $499 most likely.

Either way, NVIDIA has to price drop the 780 to < $549, since the 290X is about 10% faster.

780TI will match the 290X IF it's a cut down Titan with 3GB, plus NVIDIA will not be able to price it for more than $599. Awesome.

Interesting times ahead.


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlademaster01*
> 
> Lol, AMD just pulled an HD 4870


May I please sig this?


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks anandtechs reviews have gone downhill a lot in the past year?


Nope your not the only one.

Don't bother to check them much anymore.


----------



## soul31

When will see review to R9 290 and price ?


----------



## Vowels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> He didn't. He hit 1125MHz with uber bios and 1145MHz with quiet mode.
> 
> However if we believe his voltage scaling graph 1200MHz would have required just shy of 1.3v.
> That'll need ~1.3v for 1200MHz.... I think I'd wait and see OCN results.
> 
> Besides, Titan stock performance was reached at *$650 back when the 780 launched*...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh NOW he says it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (After those endless debates with "GoldenTiger" lol) Oh Alatar, you're too much.... AMD have proven you wrong so many times now with this card it's borderline comical.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you're going with this because I've seen Alatar say that same thing a few times before.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Now just imagine how much Titan would have been, had AMD stuck to their yearly release schedule, and released the 290X January 2013.
> 
> Titan would've been $699 max. NVIDIA would've released the 780 for $499 most likely.
> 
> Either way, NVIDIA has to price drop the 780 to < $549, since the 290X is about 10% faster.
> 
> 780TI will match the 290X IF it's a cut down Titan with 3GB, plus NVIDIA will not be able to price it for more than $599. Awesome.
> 
> Interesting times ahead.


2010, you'll finally be able to get that GPU upgrade....










From the green team of course.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks anandtechs reviews have gone downhill a lot in the past year?


Never liked there reviews at all, always seem to be biased.. I stick to Guru3d only, oh i guess Tom's too to cross reference Guru3d from time to time.. I did tonight anyways with the 290x and there OC.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> The die is a completely diferent shape and size. I gaurantee that it wont fit without in spacers *HEATERS* or without some kind of modification


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Just a heads up:
> 
> I removed Anandtech's benchmarks graphs from the OP and added Tom's Hardware ones because I noticed there was a big discrepancy in the results, with Anandtech's showing the 290X not being able to pull so much ahead, turns out the test system on Tom's Hardware is better, so it will give a more accurate result of what people here on OCN will achieve.
> 
> Anandtech: 4960X @ 4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 1866 Mhz 9-10-9-26
> 
> Tom's: 4960X @ 4.3 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 2133 Mhz 9-11-10-28


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks anandtechs reviews have gone downhill a lot in the past year?


Adding to what I wrote above (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but 4.2 Ghz and 1866 Mhz DDR3 is conservative for a test system and can produce CPU and RAM limited results when reviewing such high-end cards), I can tell you that they were among the first ones to post the review, but it was at least missing the conclusion. They were once known to post reviews when they were ready, now they just want to hit the NDA lift time as fast as they can. Not the best approach in my understanding. The Tech Report still hasn't posted theirs, for example, but I'm going to read it when they do.


----------



## Sharchaster

Kudos to AMD


----------



## Mad Pistol

With the release of the 290X, I think AMD has just started an all out war with Nvidia. Now that AMD has both consoles, they are doing everything they can to increase their market share.

Good on them... we need lower prices, and for $549, the 290X is a freakin bargain compared to the 780!









Time for nvidia to respond.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Oh NOW he says it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Alatar, you're too much.... AMD have proven you wrong so many times now with this card it's borderline comical.


Funny thing is that I never said custom cooled 780s didn't beat Titans *at stock*.

Anyways, it's not like anyone else saw the 512bit bus being smaller than the 384bit one either. When the die size was revealed even raghu thought it wouldn't be able to compete with a Titan. That's because no one expected a drastic decrease in the die size taken by the memory bus. Before we knew that fact, if you did the math, the specs made no sense.

As I've said previously, I care about OC'd performance. This thing looks like it's on par with a Titan clock for clock. I look forward to all the benching threads in the future. The 290X has a daunting task ahead. Titans can gain as much as 40% extra perf from overclocking.


----------



## Dmac73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Taint3dBulge*
> 
> Never liked there reviews at all, always seem to be biased.. I stick to Guru3d only, oh i guess Tom's too to cross reference Guru3d from time to time.. I did tonight anyways with the 290x and there OC.


I love Guru but they have a couple erks with me.... Usually only 1 Overclocked performance result(usually 3dm11) vs a variety of different games, and their lack of including actual GPU scores on their 3DM11 scores instead of just P scores; and their articles have gotten shorter.


----------



## allpointsbulletin

hmm.. would installing an aftermarket vga cooler void the warranty :/ I wonder where all the warranty stickers are placed at.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks anandtechs reviews have gone downhill a lot in the past year?


He seems upset to have to release this review...


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allpointsbulletin*
> 
> hmm.. would installing an aftermarket vga cooler void the warranty :/ I wonder where all the warranty stickers are placed at.


Depends on the manufacturer. I think XFX allows you to install 3rd party coolers.


----------



## Genz0

Now i'm ready to make my 1st PC build ^_^


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allpointsbulletin*
> 
> hmm.. would installing an aftermarket vga cooler void the warranty :/ I wonder where all the warranty stickers are placed at.


Most likely one of the heatsink screws will have a warranty sticker on it. Removing it with a pair of pliers will allow you to run an aftermarket heatsink and not void your warranty


----------



## theilya

are there any coolers like h100i but for this card?

that thing sounds like a jet


----------



## Milestailsprowe

The high heat is most likely due to the AMD cooler so any Aftermarket cardworth a damn will help. Now I'm curious how the 290 will do


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmac73*
> 
> 2010, you'll finally be able to get that GPU upgrade....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the green team of course.


yep, $499 780 here I come.









Well done AMD.









I've been debating Upgrading to Adobe CC, so there's a slight chance that I may grab the 290X to reward AMD for their efforts. I'll wait for non-reference cards, as well as Max OC vs Max OC results to decide.

A $550 780 Classified vs a Non-Reference 290X is the battle I look forward to in the coming weeks.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Funny thing is that I never said custom cooled 780s didn't beat Titans *at stock*.
> 
> Anyways, it's not like anyone else saw the 512bit bus being smaller than the 384bit one either. When the die size was revealed even raghu thought it wouldn't be able to compete with a Titan. That's because no one expected a drastic decrease in the die size taken by the memory bus. Before we knew that fact, if you did the math, the specs made no sense.
> 
> As I've said previously, I care about OC'd performance. This thing looks like it's on par with a Titan clock for clock. I look forward to all the benching threads in the future. The 290X has a daunting task ahead. Titans can gain as much as 40% extra perf from overclocking.


Point is you were wrong on every single thing you said. Luckily I was one of the few who didn't believe anything you said.

Just waiting to see overclocks on water cooling now.


----------



## piledragon

Quote:


> With the release of the 290X, I think AMD has just started an all out war with Nvidia. Now that AMD has both consoles, they are doing everything they can to increase their market share.
> 
> Good on them... we need lower prices, and for $549, the 290X is a freakin bargain compared to the 780! thumb.gif
> 
> Time for nvidia to respond.


yes they did







and i can't wait for nvidias reaction , cause AMD has set loose the hounds


----------



## Clockster

Waterblock ordered







Finally going back to watercooling


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piledragon*
> 
> yes they did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and i can't wait for nvidias reaction , cause AMD has set loose the hounds


More like released the Kraken!


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Funny thing is that I never said custom cooled 780s didn't beat Titans *at stock*.
> 
> Anyways, it's not like anyone else saw the 512bit bus being smaller than the 384bit one either. When the die size was revealed even raghu thought it wouldn't be able to compete with a Titan. That's because no one expected a drastic decrease in the die size taken by the memory bus. Before we knew that fact, if you did the math, the specs made no sense.
> 
> As I've said previously, I care about OC'd performance. This thing looks like it's on par with a Titan clock for clock. I look forward to all the benching threads in the future. The 290X has a daunting task ahead. Titans can gain as much as 40% extra perf from overclocking.


My friend...

Titan = $1,000

R9 290x = $549 (x2 = $1,098)

If you are going compute, u no longer need a TITAN...

If you are going gaming, u no longer need a TITAN...

If u have a TITAN, u can sell it (like I have) or keep it, if u don't have PCIe 3.0.

Lastly, What does OC a TITAN get you... ePEEn or better gaming...? What is YOUR precedence/criteria for your silly comments?


----------



## Disturbed117

Almost time for me to upgrade from my 6970.

I think i will wait for a Lightning though.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noobism*
> 
> More like released the Kraken!


2816 cores
1 Ghz
4GB RAM
512-bit memory bus
64 ROPs

At $549, *The R9 290x IS THE KRAKEN!!!!* (of single GPU video cards)


----------



## piledragon

Quote:


> More like released the Kraken!biggrin.gif


you got that right


----------



## Stay Puft

I love all the complaining about power consumption and temps. This is OCN. We don't care about power consumption and almost all of us will be pulling off the stock heatsink 5 minutes after receiving it.

Should start a new policy. If you post complaining about any of the following I listed above you should be banned automatically. Nvidia guys you have to give credit where credit is due. This card is awesome and on water it will be amazing


----------



## jomama22

anyone have an amazon link at all?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> 2816 cores
> 1 Ghz
> 4GB RAM
> 512-bit memory bus
> 64 ROPs
> 
> The R9 290x IS THE KRAKEN!!!! (of single GPU video cards)


And double gpu...
high clocked titan > gtx 690 / 7990
290x high clocked > titan high clocked


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> 499$ makes sense for the 780. Its about anywhere from tied to 8% slower at 1080p. With ACX models coming in at 519$ that will beat the 290x at 1080p it will be a good competitor.


I still think that R9-290 is a wolf in sheeps clothing. What we are seeing here is an extremely temp limited GPU, that basically throttles through alot of benchmarks yet still beats the titan. for $450-$500 that 290 with less shaders ( with higher stock clocks and actual Overclocking headroom) could easily match the GTX780 and man, yet another nail in it's coffin if it does.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> anyone have an amazon link at all?


how many are you buying?


----------



## KnightVII

I have 2 GTX Titans and the price was ok. Sli GTX Titan are driving smooth. Next gen games needs more power. Can 290x handle it? No one knows. When I look at the temp, speed. Yes, there is a possibility that 290x will suffocate/die.


----------



## DiNet

Are there any loudness tests vs 400 nvidia? Are they louder than 2 gtx470 at 100%?
Anyhow, amd won this round... 290x and gtx480 for physics for me this year


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> 2816 cores
> 1 Ghz
> 4GB RAM
> 512-bit memory bus
> 64 ROPs
> 
> At $549, *The R9 290x IS THE KRAKEN!!!!* (of single GPU video cards)


Just started upgrading my rig, perfect time indeed!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piledragon*
> 
> you got that right


Black Friday / Cyber Monday hurry up!


----------



## GenoOCAU

QQ'ing massively... don't know if its worth the $1400-1500 AUD to get two of these ovens in Xfire then fork out more for blocks.

Or just get a 7990 for $600... god damn it!


----------



## MattGordon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Disturbed117*
> 
> Almost time for me to upgrade from my 6970.
> I think i will wait for a Lightning though.


If nvidia doesent announce a substantial cut in prices this is what I will probably do too. My mpower board would LOVE the company of a lightning card. And knowing MSI lately we will have to wait a couple months for a 290x lightning... perfect amount of time to save up.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> My friend...
> 
> Titan = $1,000
> 
> R9 290x = $549 (x2 = $1,098)
> 
> If you are going compute, u no longer need a TITAN...
> 
> If you are going gaming, u no longer need a TITAN...
> 
> If u have a TITAN, u can sell it (like I have) or keep it, if u don't have PCIe 3.0.
> 
> Lastly, What does OC a TITAN get you... ePEEn or better gaming...? What is YOUR precedence/criteria for your silly comments?


Mhh... compute?

Lots of softwares I use benefits from CUDA sadly and APEX Plugins for 3D Software + PhysX for animations. Also GTX TITAN Double Precision if you enable it in your Nvidia Panel. 780/780Ti will have crippled Double Precision. They are made for gaming only.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> 2816 cores
> 1 Ghz
> 4GB RAM
> 512-bit memory bus
> 64 ROPs
> 
> At $549, *The R9 290x IS THE KRAKEN!!!!* (of single GPU video cards)


Wonder how long b4 we see non-reference boards, or different cooling solutions..? Weeks, months..?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I love all the complaining about power consumption and temps. This is OCN. We don't care about power consumption and almost all of us will be pulling off the stock heatsink 5 minutes after receiving it.
> 
> Should start a new policy. If you post complaining about any of the following I listed above you should be banned automatically. Nvidia guys you have to give credit where credit is due. This card is awesome and on water it will be amazing


The 290X is so good, that even I'm considering buying it.









I'll wait for the 780TI, along with Max OC vs Max OC results first, and will decide.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> I have 2 GTX Titans and the price was ok. Sli GTX Titan are driving smooth. Next gen games needs more power. Can 290x handle it? No one knows. When I look at the temp, speed. Yes, there is a possibility that 290x will suffocate/die.


huh?

look this is ~ GTX 480 with temps and power (depending on what review you read)

i know of a few 480s still gaming like new . . .

edit: sorry a bit exaggeration saying _like new_, there has been some degradation but nothing that isn't more than expected.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenoOCAU*
> 
> QQ'ing massively... don't know if its worth the $1400-1500 AUD to get two of these ovens in Xfire then fork out more for blocks.
> 
> Or just get a 7990 for $600... god damn it!


If the 290x is the overclocker we are all hoping for, and you have a waterblock, a single 290x is going to kill a 7990.


----------



## Newbie2009

I'm genuinely shocked, at the performance and the price. Any reviews with volts and overclocks?


----------



## piledragon

Quote:


> I have 2 GTX Titans and the price was ok. Sli GTX Titan are driving smooth. Next gen games needs more power. Can 290x handle it? No one knows. When I look at the temp, speed. Yes, there is a possibility that 290x will suffocate/die.


for the price of two titans, you could have had four 290x's,


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The 290X is so good, that even I'm considering buying it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll wait for the 780TI, along with Max OC vs Max OC results first, and will decide.


Earth might explode if you buy an amd video card


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> If nvidia doesent announce a substantial cut in prices this is what I will probably do too. My mpower board would LOVE the company of a lightning card. And knowing MSI lately we will have to wait a couple months for a 290x lightning... perfect amount of time to save up.


Yup very good idea, glad i didnt rush and upgrade my gpu first. Now with the holidays approaching, i might be able to score 2 of these things with some perks of some sort! Or some cheaper 780's


----------



## Roaches

I wonder how well the Firepro versions of Hawaii are gonna do against the K6000? Interesting times ahead in the professional segment as well....


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I'm genuinely shocked, at the performance and the price. Any reviews with volts and overclocks?


Price and Performance is nice except the temperature which it forces me to go waterblock on it $100~ on top to cool it and maintain overclock. Otherwise 94-95'c on air...


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> Next gen games needs more power. Can 290x handle it? No one knows.


Lol, if it's already equal/beat the Titan, why can't it do better especially with the extra bandwidth and whatnot. Beside, next gen consoles are powered by AMD's hardware. One more thing, Mantle.


----------



## vinton13

Time to sell my imaginary Titan. I could probably Crossfire dos 290X.
Or maybe not. I'll OC ole Tits' here. I'll get the performance of those two cards for the same price. Definitely.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I'm genuinely shocked, at the performance and the price. Any reviews with volts and overclocks?


Nothing super high. A lot tested with the fan on auto. 1150 core, 1500 mem


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Mhh... compute?
> 
> Lots of softwares I use benefits from CUDA sadly and APEX Plugins for 3D Software + PhysX for animations. Also GTX TITAN Double Precision if you enable it in your Nvidia Panel. 780/780Ti will have crippled Double Precision. They are made for gaming only.


Are you defending Alatar, by suggesting he's is soley obsessed with OC his TITAN, for animations, or plug-ins..?


----------



## Robertdt

Good performing card. However, I still can't justify 550 dollars to get 12 more FPS at 1440p ... probably will have to wait for AMD's next gen


----------



## Katawa

The reviews have shown me one thing for certain. This card with proper cooling would completely dominate.


----------



## aymanibousi

Ive been reading this thread and cant seem to find any nvidia fanboys/girls lol


----------



## djriful

Also people should stop defending which ever GPU, it makes no sense. TITAN is born in Feb, it is consider older tech. If TITAN born at the same time as 290X, then you can debate.

If I see anyone like bashing between titan with 290x.. i just simply ignore them because it is irrelevant.

You all should be looking at 780 Ti not titan or even 780. 780/titan been reigning GPU king since Feb and until now most possible it is time for AMD turns to take the crown or something.

To be clear, 290X is competing against a 9 months old GPU from Nvidia. Should keep an eye on 780Ti instead even through it is under the same GK110 but pricing wise for best offer today right now. Many of us who bought 780/TITAN in the early days, it was the best GPU you can buy. How do you argue with that?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> My friend...
> 
> Titan = $1,000
> 
> R9 290x = $549 (x2 = $1,098)
> 
> If you are going compute, u no longer need a TITAN...
> 
> If you are going gaming, u no longer need a TITAN...
> 
> If u have a TITAN, u can sell it (like I have) or keep it, if u don't have PCIe 3.0.
> 
> Lastly, What does OC a TITAN get you... ePEEn or better gaming...? What is YOUR precedence/criteria for your silly comments?


Overclocking gets me more performance. Something this whole site is about. The pursuit of performance.

If you wanted a card that's faster than the Titan at *stock* you could have bought this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125471&Tpk=windforce%20780 for $649 5 months ago.

I think it's funny that how people are comparing the 290X.

When it comes to stock performance; everyone is comparing it against the Titan even though everyone knows the Titan is terrible at stock.

When it comes to OC'd performance; everyone is about 780 vs. 290X, or just ignoring it all together.

Watch TTL's 290X video. He's saying the exact same thing I am (except for the Titan OCs like a god part).

1) Custom 780s are faster than the 290X at stock right now. And have been for months and months. And non reference 290Xs aren't going to be coming out for a while.

2) Overclocking is still in the air. We don't know. However what we do know is that very few Titan owners on OCN care about the stock performance.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Mhh... compute?
> 
> Lots of softwares I use benefits from CUDA sadly and APEX Plugins for 3D Software + PhysX for animations. Also GTX TITAN Double Precision if you enable it in your Nvidia Panel. 780/780Ti will have crippled Double Precision. They are made for gaming only.


Might as well buy a 690 for work. More cuda cores than titan and you can basically mod it to a K20...


----------



## j3poysy

499$ - 780
549$ - 780 Ti

Hope it happens in the next few months so i can get a decent upgrade.


----------



## GenoOCAU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> If the 290x is the overclocker we are all hoping for, and you have a waterblock, a single 290x is going to kill a 7990.


Even vs the 7990 on water and overclocked?


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Also people should stop defending which ever GPU, it makes no sense. TITAN is born in Feb, it is consider older tech. If TITAN born at the same time as 290X, then you can debate.
> 
> If I see anyone like bashing between titan with 290x.. i just simply ignore them because it is irrelevant.
> 
> You all should be looking at 780 Ti not titan or even 780. 780/titan been reigning GPU king since Feb and until now most possible it is time for AMD turns to take the crown or something.


Regardless if it's old tech. It's position still stands. That's the whole point of a comparison....you don't get to pick and choose your battles in this realm bud.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I love all the complaining about power consumption and temps. This is OCN. We don't care about power consumption and almost all of us will be pulling off the stock heatsink 5 minutes after receiving it.
> 
> Should start a new policy. If you post complaining about any of the following I listed above you should be banned automatically. Nvidia guys you have to give credit where credit is due. This card is awesome and on water it will be amazing


The 290X just needs something like an ACX or watercooling.

My GTX 480 got up to 84º Celsius (81º with a 120mm side panel fan blowing air directly onto it) on the stock cooler, with the ACX it only gets 61º.

With an ACX like cooler the temps on the 290X will probably go down into the 70's.

With water it'll probably be even better.


----------



## KnightVII

I know many smart programmers who are buying nvidia cards like Titan or lower. They said to me AMD has the worst cards even they have more speed than nvidia. They just don't care AMD speed, even they can't put higher score on nvidia card etc. They only care is the speed, smooth, safe, update, programming, graphics etc. They only want is a behavior card.


----------



## Roaches

I'd love to see the comeback of 3 slot cooler beasts


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The 290X is so good, that even I'm considering buying it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll wait for the 780TI, along with Max OC vs Max OC results first, and will decide.


you Know AMD is doing something right when 2010rig of all people says something like this









Today has been full of surprises lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> I know many smart programmers who are buying nvidia cards like Titan or lower. They said to me AMD has the worst cards even they have more speed than nvidia. They just don't care AMD speed, even they can't put higher score on nvidia card etc. They only care is the speed, smooth, safe, update, programming, graphics etc. They only want is a behavior card.


cool story bro







, you might want to look up the definition of "smart" before you use it next time.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Price and Performance is nice except the temperature which it forces me to go waterblock on it $100~ on top to cool it and maintain overclock. Otherwise 94-95'c on air...


Totally worth it. If you do it once, you will never go back.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Nothing super high. A lot tested with the fan on auto. 1150 core, 1500 mem


75mhz gave a nice jump in guru review. WTH LOL.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenoOCAU*
> 
> Even vs the 7990 on water and overclocked?


You will most likely get a higher overclock on 2x 7970s than a single 7990 (water and air), it always works that way. 7990 oc is basically a 690 oc, and 690s are gk104 which means fail overclocking potential.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Earth might explode if you buy an amd video card


I've owned more ATI / AMD cards than I have NVIDIA cards over the years.









AMD is giving me a reason to go back, I look forward to your MAX OC results.


----------



## Opcode

First set of legit benchmarks that I have seen yet.




Also confirmed $550 price tag.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noobism*
> 
> Regardless if it's old tech. It's position still stands. That's the whole point of a comparison....you don't get to pick and choose your battles in this realm bud.


Battle will be for new buyer or those waiting for upgrades but many people are bashing at day 1 owner of Titan/780, it was the best GPU can you buy back 7-9 months ago. You can't bash them for that and have them remorse about it.

Those who is seeking for upgrade or new builds, best to wait for 780Ti as well then they can decide. 780 might be if price drops but speaking for TITAN is a no, I wouldn't recommend it today.


----------



## majin662

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I love all the complaining about power consumption and temps. This is OCN. We don't care about power consumption and almost all of us will be pulling off the stock heatsink 5 minutes after receiving it.
> 
> Should start a new policy. If you post complaining about any of the following I listed above you should be banned automatically. Nvidia guys you have to give credit where credit is due. This card is awesome and on water it will be amazing


I'm super glad amd is competing again. I buy whatever suits my needs. That usually ends up being nvidia but I'm not dedicated to either. Why should someone be banned for stating an opinion on a card that while seemingly great needs more money out of my pocket to be amazing?

They knocked it out of the park for sure but all points need to be discussed and debated maturely don't they ? This thing consumes a healthy chunk of power at temps that are almost unheard of. "Reference duh lol wut ?" Is not valid to me. Seems amd had to throw everything and its mama at nvidia to compete and while its awesome they dethroned a 1k$ card that everyone admits was overpriced its not like the 780 is all of a sudden doomed and nvidia is definitely to a lot of consumers more than the sum of its gpu's. I'm definitely hoping 780 sees a price cut and we get some awesome competition leading into 2014 .....

I just don't get why people should be banned or why this all of a sudden is some glory day because David finally toppled Goliath. Amd did its job...as it was supposed to.


----------



## KnightVII

Well the price looks nice.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I've owned more ATI / AMD cards than I have NVIDIA cards over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD is giving me a reason to go back, I look forward to your MAX OC results.


I'm predicting max oc results to be excellent. If you look at the voltage required for clock graph it is linear. Also from what I can tell (and everyone else) the stock cooler is a failure. With proper paste and a wc loop I see lots of headroom for oc.

We don't know for sure until we get some actual ocn results but it is looking good imo.


----------



## el gappo

World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.




http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks


http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks

Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.

*COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*


----------



## Artikbot

You gotta admit that nVidia's GOUGE THE CRAP OUT OF THE TITAN strategy worked well!

I wasn't expecting the 290X to beat it though. Amazing job chaps at AMD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
> 
> 
> 
> Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.
> 
> *COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*


LOL DAT CROSSFIRE BRIDGE XD


----------



## tx-jose

add to OP

EK waterblocks









http://www.ekwb.com/news/407/19/EK-FC-R9-290X-for-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-makes-it-s-debut/


----------



## KnightVII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Today has been full of surprises lol.
> cool story bro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , you might want to look up the definition of "smart" before you use it next time.


smart {adj} [intelligent]


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Totally worth it. If you do it once, you will never go back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 75mhz gave a nice jump in guru review. WTH LOL.


This makes me happy. With quad crossfire I'm going to have like 200fps in BF4


----------



## GenoOCAU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> You will most likely get a higher overclock on 2x 7970s than a single 7990 (water and air), it always works that way. 7990 oc is basically a 690 oc, and 690s are gk104 which means fail overclocking potential.


Of course but two 7970s = two blocks, my benchmarking days are over so I dont really care about min/maxing an OC for 3dmark epeening.

Just not sure about missing such a cheap deal on the 7990, with only one 1440p for gaming. The 290x is $700-800 here in Australia without a block. Local PC shops are in fire sale mode with the 7990's they have in stock for $600.

Might have to roll a dice.. lmao.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
> 
> Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.
> 
> *COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*


El tear kingpin a new one please


----------



## Fniz92

World record a few hours after release? LOL!


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Battle will be for new buyer or those waiting for upgrades but many people are bashing at day 1 owner of Titan/780, it was the best GPU can you buy back 7-9 months ago. You can't bash them for that and have them remorse about it.
> 
> Those who is seeking for upgrade or new builds, best to wait for 780Ti as well then they can decide. 780 might be if price drops but speaking for TITAN is a no, I wouldn't recommend it today.


I'm in that upgrade boat aswell, my point was that even though it was released 7-8months ago. It still is/was (depending on who comments lol) a relevant card hence drawing a comparison.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
> 
> Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.
> 
> *COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*


umm.. is that a 4960x @ 6000mhz with 1.3v?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> This makes me happy. With quad crossfire I'm going to have like 200fps in BF4


Considering i spent a lot of time below 60fps (check frametimes, not average/minimum on fps meter) due to cpu limits with 4770k, i wish you good luck and hope they optimized the game a lot ;p


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> 41531 marks with 4x Radeon R9 290X at 1435/1650MHz
> 39629 marks with 4x GeForce GTX Titan at 1486/1774MHz


nuff said.


----------



## Kazumi

Just ordered 2 for me..lol Reviews sold me.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noobism*
> 
> I'm in that upgrade boat aswell, my point was that even though it was released 7-8months ago. It still is/was (depending on who comments lol) a relevant card hence drawing a comparison.


Yeah, I understand what you meant since they are all the same PCB as taking the results what we have to compare to 290X.

I'm keeping my TITAN, but I love to see the 290X with Mantle in December 2013 with BF4. I'm really interested to know about the new API.


----------



## froyang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Mhh... compute?
> 
> Lots of softwares I use benefits from CUDA sadly and APEX Plugins for 3D Software + PhysX for animations. Also GTX TITAN Double Precision if you enable it in your Nvidia Panel. 780/780Ti will have crippled Double Precision. They are made for gaming only.


what softwares?


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Overclocking gets me more performance. Something this whole site is about. The pursuit of performance.
> 
> If you wanted a card that's faster than the Titan at *stock* you could have bought this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125471&Tpk=windforce%20780 for $649 5 months ago.
> 
> I think it's funny that how people are comparing the 290X.
> 
> When it comes to stock performance; everyone is comparing it against the Titan even though everyone knows the Titan is terrible at stock.
> 
> When it comes to OC'd performance; everyone is about 780 vs. 290X, or just ignoring it all together.
> 
> Watch TTL's 290X video. He's saying the exact same thing I am (except for the Titan OCs like a god part).
> 
> 1) Custom 780s are faster than the 290X at stock right now. And have been for months and months. And non reference 290Xs aren't going to be coming out for a while.
> 
> 2) Overclocking is still in the air. We don't know. However what we do know is that very few Titan owners on OCN care about the stock performance.


*Your entire post is illogical.*

Are you saying that one cannot OC an R9..? Or gain additional performance from doing so..? Or, only that TITAN's OC matters..? Are you claiming the OC deltas on the TITAN's are greater than anything else?

Nothing you've stated has a bases, as u change your argument. (Clock for clock, or OC for OC)

1) Custom 780 & TITANs are irrelevant..! The 780ti has been announced!

Additionally, the 780ti will arrive around the same time non-ref R9 boards...

(Plz center urself & stop your ultra biasness, it is severely hurting your rep, you are not even being subjective)

2) How is OC still in the air..? I was a TITAN owner, I didn't care about max OC'ing my card. I think you are confusing the hobby of OC (to achieve the highest number in a bench) to stable 24/7 OC and gaming.

NOBODY cares about OC'ing a TITAN, they will just buy 4 of them on a classy board and thrum them. Perhaps 20 people on the planet might max OC their TITANS for epeen. Not everyone who purchases a TITAN.

But you already said you OC for performance... how many FPS do u gain in BF3 with your added OC? (how many FPS would u gain if u added another R9..?)


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Yeah, I understand what you meant since they are all the same PCB as taking the results what we have to compare to 290X.
> 
> I'm keeping my TITAN, but I love to see the 290X with Mantle in December 2013 with BF4. I'm really interested to know about the new API.


You have to keep it. It's not worth more then 550 dollars anymore


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
> 
> Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.
> 
> *COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*


Nice CPU benches. Now lets see something relevant like FSE single card.


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Yeah, I understand what you meant since they are all the same PCB as taking the results what we have to compare to 290X.
> 
> I'm keeping my TITAN, but I love to see the 290X with Mantle in December 2013 with BF4. I'm really interested to know about the new API.


Yup, I'm just itching for the upcoming weeks







Mobo this week then I'll be waiting to see prices


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> 1435mhz OC on stock reference 290X


Thats what am talkin bout!

Also anyone ordering from Overclockers.co.uk? If so ending today you get *three free golden ticket games* with your R9 290X


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
> 
> Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.
> 
> *COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*


Added link to this post at the end of the OP. AMD is delivering.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> You have to keep it. It's not worth more then 550 dollars anymore


Served me well since Feb'13. I just got waterblock for it and I'm out of budget for anymore changes anywho.


----------



## TooBAMF

Titan at $1000 today is stupid, but it was pretty stupid as soon as the 780 came out.

The 290X is not ridiculing the Titan in anything but price. Uber-mode on the 290X is analogous to the a Titan with a boost 2.0 disabled BIOS and an average overclock.

AMD just chose to push it to 94C instead of 80C like Nvidia did. The cards are very similar in everything but price. If the Titan's price drops significantly or if you can pick up a used one for ~$600 I don't think it's that bad of a buy.

Remains to be seen how far used prices will drop now.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> Just ordered 2 for me..lol Reviews sold me.


You gotta watercool em dude. DAMN i'm seriously tempted now.


----------



## sumitlian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I've owned more ATI / AMD cards than I have NVIDIA cards over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD is giving me a reason to go back, I look forward to your MAX OC results.


If you want every bit of power out of 290x/Titan/780/780Ti for your compute workload (Cuda or OpenCL), you must also switch to PCIe 3.0 platform (IvyB, Haswell, SB-E or Ivy-E). Some reviewers have shown high end PCIe 3.0 cards perform significantly faster with PCIe 3.0 system for compute workload while Gaming performance is not that noticeable.
AMD has already cleared with one of their technical slide that 290x with its Dual DMA is meant to saturate even PCIe 3.0 (16GB/s each direction). I know gaming performance should not be hindered much by PCIe 2.0 at least for another one year. But it might be a huge improvement for compute.


----------



## Carlitos714

This is AMD's gtx 480. hot, hungry and freaken awesome! nvidia drop those prices on the 780 by $150 to compete with this card! Titan @ the 780's current price.


----------



## $ilent

What is the ppd on [email protected] on a titan anyone?


----------



## s-x

ITS HAPPENING, ITS HAPPENING. $20 says these will be sold out within the week if not sooner. Better get your money ready and start throwing it at your screen, because Christmas just came early this year.


----------



## Moragg

AMD just drop-kicked Nvidia where it hurts









In all honesty though I'd only buy these if WCing/after market air cooling. If going with the included air cooler it'd make more sense to wait for custom PCBs and much better (probably) coolers like the Windforce that will truly let this shine.


----------



## LazahXD

Hmm, from the overclock.net review of the 290x, it's a bit disappointing







. The performance was mostly equal to the gtx 780 or worse and the temperature... 95°C, that sounds scary, I know that its made to run at those temps but it might melt or something D: . Hopefully it's just immature drivers, after all the card isn't out yet and some good aftermarket coolers come out. Although might have to turn to male prostitution to afford it here in Australia :/.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> You gotta watercool em dude. DAMN i'm seriously tempted now.


Pull the trigger man, I got two and two waterblocks to go with them. World record with a rough bench and relatively low oc for ln2, will see the card pushed more once people actually get them


----------



## MarvinDessica

Who wants to buy my 780? lol


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> AMD just drop-kicked Nvidia where it hurts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In all honesty though I'd only buy these if WCing/after market air cooling. If going with the included air cooler it'd make more sense to wait for custom PCBs and much better (probably) coolers like the Windforce that will truly let this shine.


Why drop kicked? It is expected newer tech will replace older tech. Nothing new. Nvidia has been profiting since 9 months ago, it's normal for AMD to take turn even through Nvidia is trying to hiccup their sales with 780Ti announcement.

These are the statements I don't like to see, it's like a pure hate to Nvidia. People only say that when AMD finally beat Nvidia otherwise, otherwise, they keep them to themselves. I hope some of you understand earlier post about people just bash other competitor for something is really obvious. Like adding oil to fire.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TooBAMF*
> 
> Titan at $1000 today is stupid, but it was pretty stupid as soon as the 780 came out.
> 
> The 290X is not ridiculing the Titan in anything but price. Uber-mode on the 290X is analogous to the a Titan with a boost 2.0 disabled BIOS and an average overclock.
> 
> AMD just chose to push it to 94C instead of 80C like Nvidia did. The cards are very similar in everything but price. If the Titan's price drops significantly or if you can pick up a used one for ~$600 I don't think it's that bad of a buy.
> 
> Remains to be seen how far used prices will drop now.


That's the thing people have to keep in mind, Titan hasn't had competition for 8 months until today.

AND Oh yeah, $600 used Titan can be added to my GPU upgrade list.









I wonder what NVIDIA will do with Titan. Price drop or EOL....









The people buying Titans today, will not be buying them for gaming purposes.


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x*
> 
> ITS HAPPENING, ITS HAPPENING. $20 says these will be sold out within the week if not sooner. Better get your money ready and start throwing it at your screen, because Christmas just came early this year.


My retailer had 52 cards at stock, 2 hours later they are sold out.


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> You gotta watercool em dude. DAMN i'm seriously tempted now.


My Tower is hidden and silently stored away from my eardrums. Even if I throw a jet turbine in my system I would not mind..lol Plus, I can't really hear that Freq very well anyways. Go go Big booms on deployments


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Very impressive work AMD. Faster than Titan at half the price. I don't even care now how the Titan OCs. A card that is double the price and is slower out of the box, handicapped by its stock BIOS is at least expected to match or beat a card at half its price after OC.
HD 7950 beats or matches GTX 670 at lower price, HD 7970 beats or matches GTX 770 or GTX 680 at a lower price. Titan at its price point is expected to edge out the 290X. If not it is a shame.
Much respect AMD for the $550 price.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> That's the thing people have to keep in mind, Titan hasn't had competition for 8 months until today.
> 
> AND Oh yeah, $600 used Titan can be added to my GPU upgrade list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what NVIDIA will do with Titan. Price drop or EOL....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people buying Titans today, will not be buying them for gaming purposes.


Don't pay more then 500 for a used Titan


----------



## tarobbt

AMD just bent Nvidia and it's cult of fanboys backwards.

All I see is tumbleweeds rolling on the roads right now, still no Nvidia fanboy in sight.


----------



## formula m

I know I am at least getting one 290x, but will hold off to see what the 780ti brings to the table before I decide on the second one.

If Nvidia responds with 780ti @ $600.. it will make for an interesting shopping season.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> add to OP
> 
> EK waterblocks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ekwb.com/news/407/19/EK-FC-R9-290X-for-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-makes-it-s-debut/


Added.

This will be a welcome addition to any 290X buyer.


----------



## Stay Puft

I can already see the 290X at 540 by thanksgiving


----------



## Hokies83

LoL Owned.


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulshardware*
> 
> <3 you guys!
> Thanks for posting my video!


We love you too!!!!!


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> *Your entire post is illogical.*


It definitely isn't.
Quote:


> Are you saying that one cannot OC an R9..? Or gain additional performance from doing so..?


Nowhere did I say this
Quote:


> Or, only that TITAN's OC matters..?


Why wouldn't it if you're looking for max performance?
Quote:


> Are you claiming the OC deltas on the TITAN's are greater than anything else?


Better than anything except the vanilla 7950 as far as I'm aware (recent GPUs).
Quote:


> Nothing you've stated has a bases, as u change your argument. (Clock for clock, or OC for OC)


I think you just don't understand the argument here.

1) Clock for clock the 290X seems to be matching a Titan.
2) In order to achieve the same performance the cards have to be clocked equally high.
3) Max OC with Titans on water is in the 1350MHz+ range

Thus the 290X will have to clock as high on water to match the Titans. Higher to beat it.

Quote:


> 1) Custom 780 & TITANs are irrelevant..! The 780ti has been announced!


Why are they irrelevant. If you're buying today you get a choice between R9 290X and ref and non ref. 780s.

Right now non ref 780s are faster at stock.

OC vs. OC we do not know yet.
Quote:


> Additionally, the 780ti will arrive around the same time non-ref R9 boards...


And these will be compared once they arrive. However I fail to see why we should not discuss today's offerings just because something else is coming in the future?
Quote:


> 2) How is OC still in the air..?


Because we don't have real users using their cards on watercooling. We have not seen a single result from a properly OC'd card (on 24/7 cooling)
Quote:


> I was a TITAN owner, I didn't care about max OC'ing my card.


Good for you. I hope you didn't buy the card after the 780 launch for stock performance.

However most people in the 1700 page Titan owner's club for example do greatly care about overclocking. "Pursuit of performance" and all that.
Quote:


> I think you are confusing the hobby of OC (to achieve the highest number in a bench) to stable 24/7 OC and gaming.


I bench and I game.

Unless I'm playing a game where I can keep 60fps at all times at stock I'm most likely going to be running 1328/1900 on my Titan. More is possible but I don't bother.
Quote:


> NOBODY cares about OC'ing a TITAN, they will just buy 4 of them on a classy board and _thrum_ them. Perhaps 20 people on the planet might max OC their TITANS for epeen. Not everyone who purchases a TITAN.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1363440/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-owners-club

17,368 posts of caring.

The longest thread in our Nvidia section is 90% about overclocking Titans.
Quote:


> But you already said you OC for performance... how many FPS do u gain in BF3 with your added OC? _(how many FPS would u gain if u added another R9..?)_


I gain around 35% extra fps with my day to day OC.

I'm glad you don't think OCing is relevant but there are a bunch of people on this site who look for the best possible performance. And more specifically the best possible single GPU performance. Whether the 290X can achieve this depends on its OCing potential on water cooling. Something we have not seen yet.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Well. This is awesome. These should sell like hot cakes. q4 earnings call should be a very healthy one. Console sales, new gpu's, and kaveri desktop. AMD get up to like $20 a share already.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Take it down a notch, guys, *please.* That type of bickering isn't going to get anyone anywhere and honestly it's annoying.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Just a heads up:
> 
> I removed Anandtech's benchmarks graphs from the OP and added Tom's Hardware ones because I noticed there was a big discrepancy in the results, with Anandtech's showing the 290X not being able to pull so much ahead, turns out the test system on Tom's Hardware is better, so it will give a more accurate result of what people here on OCN will achieve.
> 
> Anandtech: 4960X @ 4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 1866 Mhz 9-10-9-26
> 
> Tom's: 4960X @ 4.3 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 2133 Mhz 9-11-10-28


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Added.
> 
> This will be a welcome addition to any 290X buyer.


On both accounts, why? If people want to see for themselves what's wrong, there should be a link to the Anandtech article. It's also somewhat illogical to have a water block news link among review links; that's best posted in a totally new news thread.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sumitlian*
> 
> If you want every bit of power out of 290x/Titan/780/780Ti for your compute workload (Cuda or OpenCL), you must also switch to PCIe 3.0 platform (IvyB, Haswell, SB-E or Ivy-E). Some reviewers have shown high end PCIe 3.0 cards perform significantly faster with PCIe 3.0 system for compute workload while Gaming performance is not that noticeable.
> AMD has already cleared with one of their technical slide that 290x with its Dual DMA is meant to saturate even PCIe 3.0 (16GB/s each direction). I know gaming performance should not be hindered much by PCIe 2.0 at least for another one year. But it might be a huge improvement for compute.


Really? You got links to some of those reviews?

My only compute intensive software is Adobe Premiere CS6. IF I do go with a 290X in the end, I'd have to switch to Premiere CC, has anyone run any benches with that yet?

I look forward to the first review that will run the 290X in Adobe Premiere CC, that will make my decision easier.

I gotta give AMD props, I'll be upgrading sooner than later, no way I'll be holding out for Maxwell with these interesting turn of events.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Don't pay more then 500 for a used Titan


Be nice, it's still worth $550.


----------



## NeRoToXeN

I haven't seen this much of a shake up in a long time. Kinda nice to see this







with these prices to performance ratio it's bound to be good for us!


----------



## carmas

Wow, the 290X is really tempting. Unfortunately I just ordered a bunch of WC stuff, so I should avoid spending more money, at least until Christmas. Anyway, since the 780 Ti is releasing soon, we could see better prices in 1-2 months


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stn0092*
> 
> Damn. Tom's Hardware's 7680x1440 resolution benchmarks are amazing.
> 
> Looks like I'll be staying red two years in a row.


Yes, but Toms Hardware is also completely manipulating the frame time graphs by making the scale as small as possible to exaggerate the FUD. That's very curious.

Since when is .1 ms not 0 for frame latency??


----------



## Alatar

OCN for the past 2 years, in every review thread when the 7000 series was out:

"OC'd performance is what matters, the 7000 series is a better deal than the 600 series because they OC better"

OCN since the 290X rumors started coming out:

"OC'd performance, what's that?, who even cares if you can OC GK110 cards?"










Am I the only one who sees some irony in this?


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> -snip-
> 
> I think you just don't understand the argument here.
> 
> 1) Clock for clock the 290X seems to be matching a Titan.
> 2) In order to achieve the same performance the cards have to be clocked equally high.
> 3) Max OC with Titans on water is in the 1350MHz+ range
> 
> Thus the 290X will have to clock as high on water to match the Titans. Higher to beat it.
> 
> -snip-


And from your previous doubtful or rather skeptical post that the 290X still hasn't proved anything in the OC grounds...

Alatar, the quadfired 290X already scored 68,848 Graphics score @ 1435MHz vs 61,258 Graphics score @ 1446MHz for Quad-SLI Titans under a 3D Mark Performance run.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> To that end at 2560x1440 AMD is essentially tied with GTX Titan, delivering an average of 99% of the performance of NVIDIA's prosumer-level flagship. Against NVIDIA's cheaper and more gaming oriented GTX 780 that becomes an outright lead, with the 290X leading by an average of 9% and never falling behind the GTX 780.


This speaks volumes to me as a 1440p owner.

Also I know ive ripped on AMD before, but they did it so right this time. Honestly the comedic PR we've seen for the past 4 weeks aside, this 290X is amazing. The difference this time around from when AMD launched bulldozer is unbelievable. Like its two different companies.

Im proud to say I have my 290X on the way, I know I wont be disappointed!


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> OC vs. OC we do not know yet.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> World Records already falling. The first of many I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441979_smoke_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_96500_marks
> 
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
> 
> Stock Reference cards at -130°C. No add-on power card either.
> 
> *COUGH GTX Titanic COUGH*






290x max oc 1,435/1,650MHz vs titan max oc 1,486/1,774MHz . 290x takes the crown.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Alatar, the quadfired 290X already scored 68,848 Graphics score @ 1435MHz vs 61,258 Graphics score @ 1446MHz for Quad-SLI Titans under a 3D Mark Performance run.


yeh, I already quoted that. I don't know if he sees it.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> yeh, I already quoted that. I don't know if he sees it.


Dude is in denial.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> Take it down a notch, guys, *please.* That type of bickering isn't going to get anyone anywhere and honestly it's annoying.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Just a heads up:
> 
> I removed Anandtech's benchmarks graphs from the OP and added Tom's Hardware ones because I noticed there was a big discrepancy in the results, with Anandtech's showing the 290X not being able to pull so much ahead, turns out the test system on Tom's Hardware is better, so it will give a more accurate result of what people here on OCN will achieve.
> 
> Anandtech: 4960X @ 4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 1866 Mhz 9-10-9-26
> 
> Tom's: 4960X @ 4.3 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3 2133 Mhz 9-11-10-28
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Added.
> 
> This will be a welcome addition to any 290X buyer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On both accounts, why? If people want to see for themselves what's wrong, there should be a link to the Anandtech article. It's also somewhat illogical to have a water block news link among review links; that's best posted in a totally new news thread.
Click to expand...

Well, when it comes to the first note, it's there because I had initially posted three game benchmark graphs from Anandtech and then replaced them with Tom's Hardware graphs (there are links to both reviews in the OP, by the way), I think an explanation of why I did it is reasonable so people don't accuse me of favouring AMD for no apparent reason. I only posted that explanation because I changed the post and many people may have seen the initial version, that's it.

As to the water block, I'm sure someone will post a news thread about it.







(I just thought it was relevant given the high temperatures the card gets, I removed that note)


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Well, when it comes to the first note, it's there because I had initially posted three game benchmark graphs from Anandtech and then replaced them with Tom's Hardware graphs, I think an explanation of why I did it is reasonable so people don't accuse me of favouring AMD for no apparent reason. I only posted that explanation because I changed the post and many people may have seen the initial version, that's it.
> 
> As to the water block, I'm sure someone will post a news thread about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I just thought it was relevant given the high temperatures the card gets, I removed that note)
> 
> I didn't


Why are you even including toms review? I'd trust a review from that tigerdirect sales guy over at eteknik more then toms


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Alatar, the quadfired 290X already scored 68,848 Graphics score @ 1435MHz vs 61,258 Graphics score @ 1446MHz for Quad-SLI Titans under a 3D Mark Performance run.
> 
> 
> 
> yeh, I already quoted that. I don't know if he sees it.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I saw it as well.
And he replied with 'nice CPU score' or alike. Curious to see what he has on the graphics score. I doubt the extra 159MHz between the two 4960X CPUs would make up for a 7,6K difference in Graphics score.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> And from your previous doubtful or rather skeptical post that the 290X still hasn't proved anything in the OC grounds...
> 
> Alatar, the quadfired 290X already scored 68,848 Graphics score @ 1435MHz vs 61,258 Graphics score @ 1446MHz for Quad-SLI Titans under a 3D Mark Performance run.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*
> 
> 
> 290x max oc 1,435/1,650MHz vs titan max oc 1,486/1,774MHz . 290x takes the crown.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> yeh, I already quoted that. I don't know if he sees it.


3dmark 11 performance preset. 720p with quad cards = completely irrelevant. Especially when there's a clear CPU advantage in favor of the AMD setup

And especially since *ALL AMD scores from hwbot when it comes to 3dm11 are with tesselation disabled.*


----------



## Panzerfury

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/amd-radeon-r9-290x-im-test/
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2013/amd_radeon_r9_290x_hawaii_review/

It's in german, but here they are showing it against an overclocked titan (Don't know how overclocked the titan is compared to what it can usually clock to)


----------



## djriful

Toms review is a little weird about the look of the card. Honestly, that card gets hot and best to put it underwater + you're going to toss that shroud away. So yeah.


----------



## zeddragon

From guru3d
Quote:


> Bare in mind though that initially only reference boards will be available in the channel, later on in the *December* time-frame you might see a couple of custom build boards from AIB partners.


In December? Come on, we need those coolers now


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Like its two different companies.


It pretty much is.


----------



## selk22

Anyone know where I can order the 290x yet without the BF4 bundle?

Right now its only available with bf4 on newegg.


----------



## $ilent

Guys stop trying to convince Alatar, hes obviously not interested.

Just let the reviews speak for themselves (AMD is essentially tied with GTX Titan, delivering an average of 99% of the performance of NVIDIA's prosumer-level flagship)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> It pretty much is.


You mean AMD vs AMD/ATI?

I mean two different companies as in thier claims, the bulldozer performed similar/just beaten by ivy bridge but cost the same, whereas this 290X performs better (gtx 780) for less money, and even more astounding is that it performs virtually the same as the titan even though its half the price.


----------



## speedyeggtart

It is at my price and performance goal... but I may wait for better coolers... I had a loud card before and I didnt like it...


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> OCN for the past 2 years, in every review thread when the 7000 series was out:
> 
> "OC'd performance is what matters, the 7000 series is a better deal than the 600 series because they OC better"
> 
> OCN since the 290X rumors started coming out:
> 
> "OC'd performance, what's that?, who even cares if you can OC GK110 cards?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who sees some irony in this?


maybe because the 290x costs like 150 dollars less than a 780 and 450 less than the titan and beats them at stock (in most things). Who cares if you can OC the 780 and titan to edge the 290x out in performance, it is WAY cheaper. And I saw that quad fire 290x's already took down quadfire titans at max OC's.... so really you are really only arguing that the 290x loses with stock air cooling OC compared to 780 and titans air cooling OC's. But again... who really cares. It's WAY CHEAPER


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Why are you even including toms review? I'd trust a review from that tigerdirect sales guy over at eteknik more then toms


Tom's Hardware is not all the same, I usually trust Chris Angelini's reviews.


----------



## Oranuro

I like the 290x, I really do, but there is noway in hell I'd ever let my graphics card go into the range of 90c. I'm paranoid just from the fact that my 7870 reaches 70c in some games. I can't wait to see how third-party go about pricing the 290x with non-reference designs and the high RMA rates that are bound to happen with cards running so hot.


----------



## Stay Puft

It's posted in another thread. Custom cooled 290xs won't arrive till December


----------



## Jakain

Thank the GPU gods for AMD. They should have call the R9290X the "Zeus" for dethroning and killing off the Titans...hell the temp is about as hot as a lightning bolt anyway









Anyway I'm definitely going red unless team green throws in a free Shield or something


----------



## Panzerfury

At linustechtips they overclock all their cards, showing the 780 on top.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> maybe because the 290x costs like 150 dollars less than a 780 and 450 less than the titan and beats them at stock (in most things). Who cares if you can OC the 780 and titan to edge the 290x out in performance, it is WAY cheaper. And I saw that quad fire 290x's already took down quadfire titans at max OC's.... so really you are really only arguing that the 290x loses with stock air cooling OC compared to 780 and titans air cooling OC's. But again... who really cares. It's WAY CHEAPER


Hwbot 3dmark11 results for AMD graphics cards are with tesselation disabled...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panzerfury*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At linustechtips they overclock all their cards, showing the 780 on top.


Take whatever he says with a grain of salt


----------



## fragamemnon

Fine. What about FS?


Spoiler: 4xR9 290X @ 1359MHz score 57898 Graphics









Spoiler: 4xTitan @ 1486MHz score 52009 Graphics







CPU OC in favor of the Titans.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Hwbot 3dmark11 results for AMD graphics cards are with tesselation disabled...


Oh, well that's lame... BUT THEY ARE SO CHEAP. lol


----------



## $ilent

what will mantle mean for us all? Will it mean cards will get like 10% fps boost or something? I never really bothered to look into it...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> what will mantle mean for us all? Will it mean cards will get like 10% fps boost or something? I never really bothered to look into it...


All speculation right now. No one knows


----------



## Bloitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranuro*
> 
> I like the 290x, I really do, but there is noway in hell I'd ever let my graphics card go into the range of 90c. I'm paranoid just from the fact that my 7870 reaches 70c in some games. I can't wait to see how third-party go about pricing the 290x with non-reference designs and the high RMA rates that are bound to happen with cards running so hot.


I'm paranoid about temps as well, just can't be healthy to have them running that hot.
They do take an insanely long time to cool down according to TTL's video so I suppose that's a good thing.

Looking forward to some OCing results under a fullcover block.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranuro*
> 
> I like the 290x, I really do, but there is noway in hell I'd ever let my graphics card go into the range of 90c. I'm paranoid just from the fact that my 7870 reaches 70c in some games. I can't wait to see how third-party go about pricing the 290x with non-reference designs and the high RMA rates that are bound to happen with cards running so hot.


Apparently, there's an option in CCC that will allow you to specify the max temperature, similar to GPU Boost 2.0

Does anyone know what the graph is for? The options look interesting


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Hwbot 3dmark11 results for AMD graphics cards are with tesselation disabled...


You're comparing a score that took 8 months to achieve to a score on a card that just came out...


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GenoOCAU*
> 
> QQ'ing massively... don't know if its worth the $1400-1500 AUD to get two of these ovens in Xfire then fork out more for blocks.
> 
> Or just get a 7990 for $600... god damn it!


Where are you looking? PCCG has the BF4 ones for $649-$699. You'd pay $1500 or so with blocks.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Fine. What about FS?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4xR9 290X @ 1359MHz score 57898 Graphics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4xTitan @ 1486MHz score 52009 Graphics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPU OC in favor of the Titans.


lol best find ever! take dat!


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> OCN for the past 2 years, in every review thread when the 7000 series was out:
> 
> "OC'd performance is what matters, the 7000 series is a better deal than the 600 series because they OC better"
> 
> OCN since the 290X rumors started coming out:
> 
> "OC'd performance, what's that?, who even cares if you can OC GK110 cards?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who sees some irony in this?


Well.. It depends on other factors too such as price. Titan costs double the price, 780 Classified costs $150 more too than R9 290X.. Unless it reaches a price comparable to R9 290X I don't think it means much for most people how it performs after OC, the first judgement is stock performance, and OC performance is the second priority.
When people compared HD 7000 series to their GTX 600 series counterparts, the Radeons perform better after OC at *a lower price point*. But until GTX 780 & Titan prices adjusts, the comparison is meaningless after OC for most people, but those who have enough money or don't care about price/ performance.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Well, when it comes to the first note, it's there because I had initially posted three game benchmark graphs from Anandtech and then replaced them with Tom's Hardware graphs, I think an explanation of why I did it is reasonable so people don't accuse me of favouring AMD for no apparent reason. I only posted that explanation because I changed the post and many people may have seen the initial version, that's it.
> 
> As to the water block, I'm sure someone will post a news thread about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I just thought it was relevant given the high temperatures the card gets, I removed that note)
> 
> I didn't
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you even including toms review? *I'd trust a review from that tigerdirect sales guy* over at eteknik more then toms
Click to expand...

you know that's logan . . .


----------



## Hattifnatten

Quad 290x is ahead of quad Titans in Firestrike aswell.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> I'm predicting max oc results to be excellent. If you look at the voltage required for clock graph it is linear. Also from what I can tell (and everyone else) the stock cooler is a failure. With proper paste and a wc loop I see lots of headroom for oc.
> 
> We don't know for sure until we get some actual ocn results but it is looking good imo.


I don't know. A couple of the reviews (Guru3D and maybe Hardware Canucks?) mentioned that the overclock was limited by the board power, not by the temps. So until someone unlocks higher power limits they may not do so well. Guru3D's card only did 1070 at 150% power - that's pretty underwhelming.

And what happened to that whole "only draws 9W more than Titan" thing? Pretty solid 30-50W difference, it looks like.


----------



## Hukkel

SO MUCH WIN AMD!!!!

SO MUCH WIN!!!!


----------



## Acapella75

Any chance someone will make a blower type premium fan like the titan? AMDs only fault is their cheap ass fans. I require a blower type for my case.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Hwbot 3dmark11 results for AMD graphics cards are with tesselation disabled...


And Nvidia results are LOD tweaked







Which driver tweak has a bigger impact on image quality ya think?





There are only 2 scores of note up right now, both are 4way, both are likely to have backups out the wazoo, it doesn't really prove much but it's a promising start. Low cold bug, adequate power delivery on the reference card, good scaling with multiple cards, WORLD RECORDS.

We need far more info than this. The lack of overclocking and synthetics in these reviews is very disappointing.







We shouldn't be left with so many questions.


----------



## BigTree

Great card! Noisy but great. Now lets see 780Ti and its price point.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acapella75*
> 
> Any chance someone will make a blower type premium fan like the titan? AMDs only fault is their cheap ass fans. I require a blower type for my case.


Seems unlikely, but none reference cards arent out for a couple months yet.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Fine. What about FS?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4xR9 290X @ 1359MHz score 57898 Graphics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4xTitan @ 1486MHz score 52009 Graphics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPU OC in favor of the Titans.


Quad Fire always scales better

Max OC performance will still be 290x > gtx780

Can't wait for Nvidia's price drops to follow suite, because as of right now the GTX780 is a joke.
Still going to be hard even if they price match the gtx780 with the 290x simply because the 290x will still be faster.

Can't wait to see 290x under a block


----------



## tpi2007

Just a heads up guys, The Tech Report has posted its review (added to the OP).

http://techreport.com/review/25509/amd-radeon-r9-290x-graphics-card-reviewed


----------



## thestache

Hmmmm so no word on voltage adjustments?

Very impressive so far, very impressive and the price is staggering low compared to what it's going up against (exactly half the price here in Australia). Great job so far AMD great job. Need some voltage tweaking and then we can compared clock for clock against the 1200-1300mhz GTX Titans and see which truly is the better of the two.

Nvidia HAVE to drop the price of the GTX Titan now. No way is that thing worth anything over $700 with what it's going up against if the 290X can overclock. If being the key word there. Default settings is impressive anyways though.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> And Nvidia results are LOD tweaked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which driver tweak has a bigger impact on image quality ya think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only 2 scores of note up right now, both are 4way, both are likely to have backups out the wazoo, it doesn't really prove much but it's a promising start. Low cold bug, adequate power delivery on the reference card, good scaling with multiple cards, WORLD RECORDS.
> 
> We need far more info than this. The lack of overclocking and synthetics in these reviews is very disappointing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We shouldn't be left with so many questions.


Image quality is one thing but tess disabled definitely has a much bigger performance advantage...

Lower cold bug than GK110 is nice though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> lol best find ever! take dat!


No one wants to bench normal FS on hwbot because it doesn't give you any points. It's a quick afterthought during a benching session. Run it if there's some extra time or LN2. Never push cards to the max for it though because you don't want to kill hardware for a useless bench.

Why do you think only 3dmark11 P preset, vantage and normal FS were posted? Couldn't possibly be because it can't compete in the more competitive benches? No to mention these are only quad scores. And quadfire almost always scales better anyways.


----------



## Mygaffer

So do I buy this card when stuff like a Twin Frozr edition comes out, buy stock and go water, or wait until 20nm products next year?

Great to see the performance/price but man, people will be wanting to buy cards coming with custom cooling solutions.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Wouldn't the best thing to do is move to AMD? Show Nvidia you aren't happy with prices.
> 
> Vote with your wallets.


The man is spot on people... pissing and moaning on forums won't change Nvidia's mind one bit... losing market share is not only a HUGE motivator, but it is also the best and most powerful method for consumers to force any profit driven company to change their pricing scale.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thestache*
> 
> Hmmmm so no word on voltage adjustments?
> 
> Very impressive so far, very impressive and the price is staggering low compared to what it's going up against (exactly half the price here in Australia). Great job so far AMD great job. Need some voltage tweaking and then we can compared clock for clock against the 1200-1300mhz GTX Titans and see which truly is the better of the two.
> 
> Nvidia HAVE to drop the price of the GTX Titan now. No way is that thing worth anything over $700 with what it's going up against if the 290X can overclock. If being the key word there. Default settings is impressive anyways though.


Techpowerup tested voltages on their card. Good scaling, but the power load went up pretty dramatically. Still topped out at only ~1200MHz though.


Quote:


> AMD's Radeon R9 290X shows fantastic clock scaling with GPU voltage, better than any GPU I've previously reviewed. The clocks do not show any signs of diminishing returns, which leads me to believe that the GPU could clock even higher with more voltage and cooling.
> 
> AMD's stock cooler is completely overwhelmed with the heat output of the card during voltage tweaking, though. Even at 100%, it could barely keep the card from overheating and was noisier than any cooler I've ever experienced. My neighbors actually complained, asking why I used power tools that late at night.
> 
> Power draw also increases immensely, going from just above 400 W for the whole system to around 650 W! To conclude, I expect extreme overlclockers with access to liquid nitrogen to love this card. Everyone else will probably find voltage tuning beyond +0.05 V to be too hot and too noisy.


It's basically AMD's GTX 480 - awesome performance if you can keep it powered and cool.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I don't know. A couple of the reviews (Guru3D and maybe Hardware Canucks?) mentioned that the overclock was limited by the board power, not by the temps. So until someone unlocks higher power limits they may not do so well. Guru3D's card only did 1070 at 150% power - that's pretty underwhelming.
> 
> And what happened to that whole "only draws 9W more than Titan" thing? Pretty solid 30-50W difference, it looks like.


Meh, I personally didn't like hardware canuck's review.

Anyway, other overclocks so far show 1150-1200 on air, which takes in account the power limit. They mentioned the card downclocking or reverting to stock because it was hitting the extreme temperatures. 1070 vs 1200 seems a bit too much in difference to be left to silicon lottery alone.


----------



## Namwons

I only have two questions. Whats the clock vs clock performance (say 1Ghz), and whats the maxOC vs maxOC performance.


----------



## anticommon

Okay, I'm a bit late to the conversation, but according to linus's article, it looks like for anyone not using a 4k monitor, the 780 (overclocked with stock cooler) beats out the 290x in most scenarios. This might change when aftermarket coolers come out, but right now it looks like the 290x, unless it's under water, won't really be able to touch the 780 when both of them are overclocked (especially considering aftermarket variants of the 780). I was really hoping for a better show from AMD, but they at least got the price point right and I'm sure that it will make a lot of people, especially those who do not overclock, very happy


----------



## Hukkel

The cards can take 95 degrees 24/7 its entire lifetime.

Even when a review like Techreport places the R290X past the Titan which is 499$ more expensive in every chart people still find a reason to slash it.
What a sad way to go people. What a very sad way to go.

AMD won one, deal with it.


----------



## Moragg

So... can we get this to pull 500W too? I reckon there's headroom for some pretty sweet OCing on these with water, so far temps+noise have been the major limiting factors, not the silicon from the looks of it.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Namwons*
> 
> I only have two questions. Whats the clock vs clock performance (say 1Ghz), and whats the maxOC vs maxOC performance.


Clock for clock about Titan-level. Max OC no one knows, but the review cards maxed out under 1200 for the most part (on air). We'll need to wait for watercooled results.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hukkel*
> 
> The cards can take 95 degrees 24/7 its entire lifetime.


So could the GTX 480, but that didn't stop it from being a laughingstock.


----------



## Cyclonic

Come on MSI release that R9 290x LIGHTNING!! I dont know how long i can keep up throwing money @ my screen!


----------



## Lumo841

Damn, at $550 I sort of regret buying my 780 Classy.


----------



## BakerMan1971

This is just so good, GPU wars is back after the geeky flail battle that has been going on with the 'meh' launches.

the price is what has me astounded £430 in the UK gets a reference card, thats about £80 cheaper than a 780.

Having spent some of my 'saving up for a GPU' dosh on an IPS monitor, it will be Q1 2014 before I am ready to splash out on a new GPU, and AMD certainly have a hand on my wallet.


----------



## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> Okay, I'm a bit late to the conversation, but according to linus's article, it looks like for anyone not using a 4k monitor, the 780 (overclocked with stock cooler) beats out the 290x in most scenarios. This might change when aftermarket coolers come out, but right now it looks like the 290x, unless it's under water, won't really be able to touch the 780 when both of them are overclocked (especially considering aftermarket variants of the 780). I was really hoping for a better show from AMD, but they at least got the price point right and I'm sure that it will make a lot of people, especially those who do not overclock, very happy


I just saw that. That's kind of surprising actually.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Why do you think only 3dmark11 P preset, vantage and normal FS were posted? Couldn't possibly be because it can't compete in the more competitive benches? No to mention these are only quad scores. And quadfire almost always scales better anyways.


More competitive benches? FS is not competitive enough or because 290X is winning? Please don't mention Unigine, we know how Nvidia biased it is.

Quadfire does scales better but don't forget that those Titans has its own advantages as well. Higher CPU's clock, matured drivers, higher core/boost clock, higher memory clock and so on.

Of course, I would love to see single gpu bench as well.


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lumo841*
> 
> Damn, at $550 I sort of regret buying my 780 Classy.


I wouldn't (and I don't), simply on the merits of overclocking headroom. You and I have a lot of it, and the 290x not so much.


----------



## Clukos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> No one wants to bench normal FS on hwbot because it doesn't give you any points. It's a quick afterthought during a benching session. Run it if there's some extra time or LN2. Never push cards to the max for it though because you don't want to kill hardware for a useless bench.
> 
> Why do you think only 3dmark11 P preset, vantage and normal FS were posted? Couldn't possibly be because it can't compete in the more competitive benches? No to mention these are only quad scores. And quadfire almost always scales better anyways.


FS not competitive enough of a benchmark? Man, i think you love your Titan a little too much (i know i would), but it's getting silly. The 290x was just released and it beats a Titan that is clocked over 100hz on the core and *it costs 450$ less*. This thing watercooled will be a beast.


----------



## Mygaffer

Well not as much wailing and gnashing of teeth as I expected but still some people finding silver linings to the money they paid for other, more expensive cards...


----------



## Namwons

well to everyone who got a Titan...you cant be on top forever.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> That's the thing people have to keep in mind, Titan hasn't had competition for 8 months until today.
> 
> AND Oh yeah, $600 used Titan can be added to my GPU upgrade list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what NVIDIA will do with Titan. Price drop or EOL....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people buying Titans today, will not be buying them for gaming purposes.


Well they can't end of life as there are no new products coming until almost a year from now.

Guys, these cards are the card we will be stuck with until at least summer or fall 2014.

The process shrinks will only get further and further spaced apart as we go. Same as is happening in the CPU space. Our future is one of rebrands and slight feature upgrades, interspersed with occasional bumps in performance. Short of some sort of paradigm shift in how GPU's are made.


----------



## Moragg

Here's an interesting thought - we all expect the R9 290 to cost _significantly_ less. But, if the 290X (on air) is bottlenecked by temps and acceptable noise, we may find the stock cooler gives more OCing headroom in the 290 - so giving the same performance at a much lower ($450?) price.


----------



## Nerull

Do the non ref cards also come with diff memory and other components or just the cooler?


----------



## 1337LutZ

For the dutchies:

http://tweakers.net/reviews/3275/1/amd-r9-290x-olympier-voor-de-titan-inleiding-eiland-in-zicht.html


----------



## Forceman

If Nvidia had dropped the GTX 780 to $550 last week, the landscape would look a whole lot difference, especially if aftermarket cards dropped as well. A reference 290X against a similar priced Windforce or Classified would be an interesting discussion.


----------



## tpi2007

5 hours, 500 posts.









I'd say AMD played the PR game very well these past few weeks. Not telling exactly how well the card would perform, even saying they were not going for the ultra enthusiast segment, not telling the price, then Newegg had that slip with a much higher price, which ended in Nvidia not lowering their prices so people would rush to buy their cards instead, whether all of it was intentional or not, the end result is great for AMD so far.

Nvidia, it's your move.


----------



## fateswarm

The real fun will come if people realize their cards fry on air in a month if they are preoverclocked.

AMD probably returned to its favorite historical habit from CPUs, "Can't beat Intel, let's pre-overclock it and pretend nothing happens when they fry on stock in 5 months".

(In case you wonder how Intel got the reputation of 'stability'.)


----------



## Fniz92

I feel like these reference cards are holding back these cards, can't wait to get my loop going.


----------



## szeged

so it trades blows with titans but at $549.99

very nice work amd, but from what i saw the overclocking potential so far is kind of underwhelming.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> If Nvidia had dropped the GTX 780 to $550 last week, the landscape would look a whole lot difference, especially if aftermarket cards dropped as well. A reference 290X against a similar priced Windforce or Classified would be an interesting discussion.


Even with big price cuts from Nvidia I don't see the 290X custom cards being more expensive than the 780 classy. Noise is the only thing I really don't like about the 290 series, so I would put good money on a custom cooler+pcb 290 coming in at an even lower price point and being the best value top-end card.


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> 2816 cores
> 1 Ghz
> 4GB RAM
> 512-bit memory bus
> 64 ROPs
> 
> At $549, *The R9 290x IS THE KRAKEN!!!!* (of single GPU video cards)


You forgot BF4 for only 20-30$ more


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The real fun will come if people realize their cards fry on air in a month if they are preoverclocked.
> 
> AMD probably returned to its favorite historical habit from CPUs, "Can't beat Intel, let's pre-overclock it and pretend nothing happens when they fry on stock in 5 months".
> 
> (In case you wonder how Intel got the reputation of 'stability'.)


That was a long time ago (more than ten years ago) when Athlons didn't have thermal monitoring built-in, if you took out the heatsink or the fan stopped, the CPU would literally melt, it's not the case anymore, both CPUs and GPUs have thermal monitoring technology that throttles the CPU / GPUs clockspeed to prevent that. These new Hawaii chips even have a more advanced PowerTune version, so I very much doubt that would happen.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mygaffer*
> 
> Well they can't end of life as there are no new products coming until almost a year from now.
> 
> Guys, these cards are the card we will be stuck with until at least summer or fall 2014.
> 
> The process shrinks will only get further and further spaced apart as we go. Same as is happening in the CPU space. Our future is one of rebrands and slight feature upgrades, interspersed with occasional bumps in performance. Short of some sort of paradigm shift in how GPU's are made.


Then NVIDIA will have to drop the price of Titan to what, $599?

Maybe they'll release Titan Ultra, full 2880 core card, or perhaps 780TI will be 2880 cores for $649?

Either way, where does that leave Titan? Titan is in an awkward position right now.


----------



## $ilent

also guys dont forget OCUK cards come with 3 free games too! making it even cheaper


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Then NVIDIA will have to drop the price of Titan to what, $599?
> 
> Maybe they'll release Titan Ultra, full 2880 core card, or perhaps 780TI will be 2880 cores for $649?
> 
> Either way, where does that leave Titan? Titan is in an awkward position right now.


Indeed, and it only manages to officially stay within the 250w TDP with double precision turned on at 836 Mhz (Turbo Boost is disabled).

I bet that a fully enabled GK110 for the consumer market will have double precision turned off in order to stay at 250w TDP, the best chips are going to the professional line.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The real fun will come if people realize their cards fry on air in a month if they are preoverclocked.
> 
> AMD probably returned to its favorite historical habit from CPUs, "Can't beat Intel, let's pre-overclock it and pretend nothing happens when they fry on stock in 5 months".
> 
> (In case you wonder how Intel got the reputation of 'stability'.)


Do you realize how hard it is to actually fry a card? I seem to recall you saying before that the average overclocked 7970 was in danger of getting fried.


----------



## aymanibousi

Funny when the R 290x beat the titan, fanboys complain its because the titan is xx months old. But if it was the other way around, they would be laughing their heads off ala FX-9590 a couple of months ago.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Indeed, and it only manages to officially stay within the 250w TDP with double precision turned on at 836 Mhz (Turbo Boost is disabled).
> 
> I bet that a fully enabled GK110 for the consumer market will have double precision turned off in order to stay at 250w TDP, the best chips are going to the professional line.


Well, NVIDIA better hurry up with the GeForce version of this guy.











Since they got away with selling Titan for $1000... perhaps Atlas will replace Titan, and they will have to sell it for $599. It balances itself out.


----------



## Namwons

i would be the most butthurt being a titan buyer and paying a stack per card. sure they were the fastest for awhile, but those prices you cant tell me they werent price gouging. thats why i held off on buying gtx600's as well, Nvidia selling mid tier chips at premium prices. looks like im going back to AMD this round.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Indeed, and it only manages to officially stay within the 250w TDP with double precision turned on at 836 Mhz (Turbo Boost is disabled).
> 
> I bet that a fully enabled GK110 for the consumer market will have double precision turned off in order to stay at 250w TDP, the best chips are going to the professional line.


What a lot of people don't understand or consider (Alatar) is that the Titan was a workstation quadro chip that did not make the cut. They slapped them with 2 more GB of GDDR5 disabled some of the cores and then slapped a 1000 dollar price tag on them and actually gave them driver support. IF Nvidia gave driver support for gaming on the K5000 and K6000 cards they would obliterate Titans. It would not even be close. Frankly, Nvidia was pretty smart to get suckers to buy their throw aways (thats what they used to do was throw them away if they didnt make the cut) for a grand a pop.


----------



## BakerMan1971

Why is anyone surprised that a new released card beats the current/outgoing cards from the competition?
We have seen this time and time again, a new generation/refresh of cards are released that perform better than the last generation sometimes due to new tech, sometimes due to better yields/build process etc. I know some people are a little disenchanted mainly due to current tech refreshes being passed off as the next big thing, but thats just marketing anyway.

The best thing to come out of this is the price of the new card, it sets a new more affordable benchmark price for enthusiasts, and hopefully has a big enough margin to allow AMD to continue to innovate.


----------



## Panzerfury

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aymanibousi*
> 
> Funny when the R 290x beat the titan, fanboys complain its because the titan is xx months old. But if it was the other way around, they would be laughing their heads off ala FX-9590 a couple of months ago.


It should beat older tech? Would be pretty disappointing if we didn't get performance increase with new releases. The FX-9590 was just an overclocked 8350.


----------



## Namwons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BakerMan1971*
> 
> Why is anyone surprised that a new released card beats the current/outgoing cards from the competition?


All I care about is Hawaii VS GK110. Thats the only thing new. Most everything else is old news. Hawaii at <100mm^2 of GK110 is holding is own very well.


----------



## xARVOx

im just listening to ill bill: unstoppable oh what irony


----------



## RhoSigmaTau

people are always saying nvidia fanboys are moaning and complaining, and for me...that's just not the case.

I have a gtx 780 acx, and I'm happy with it. there's always buyers remorse, and I guess you can say I'm a victim of it.

However, I'm happy that all you guys waited for the 290x! (when i bought my gtx 780, I had no idea this 290x even existed)

Have fun with the 290x, which is at an amazing price. Seriously. It's a great deal.

Personally, the temperatures do scare me, but people say the card can run on that temp indefinitely, so yea.

Nice one AMD. Niceee


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Panzerfury*
> 
> It should beat older tech? Would be pretty disappointing if we didn't get performance increase with new releases. The FX-9590 was just an overclocked 8350.


yeah cos the 8350 is a killer chip point blank i dont see to manny souls getting aorund 30-40fps in battle field3 on ultra with a quad that cots like $90 and a 7870


----------



## davcc22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> yeah cos the 8350 is a killer chip point blank i dont see to manny souls getting aorund 30-40fps in battle field3 on ultra with a quad that cots like $90 and a 7870


mind you my amd CPU is a fx4130 at stock core speed have had it @4.8ghz for like 10min there damn didn't validate it arrr


----------



## BakerMan1971

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RhoSigmaTau*
> 
> people are always saying nvidia fanboys are moaning and complaining, and for me...that's just not the case.
> 
> I have a gtx 780 acx, and I'm happy with it. there's always buyers remorse, and I guess you can say I'm a victim of it.
> 
> However, I'm happy that all you guys waited for the 290x! (when i bought my gtx 780, I had no idea this 290x even existed)
> 
> Have fun with the 290x, which is at an amazing price. Seriously. It's a great deal.
> 
> Personally, the temperatures do scare me, but people say the card can run on that temp indefinitely, so yea.
> 
> Nice one AMD. Niceee


I have to agree, and to add, when you're ready to buy.... you're ready to buy.

you will always get people who are passionate about brands rather than hard numbers, and it is not necessarily bad, it wasn't too many years ago that I used to say "People only every own ONE ATI graphics card" which pointed at terrible issues with drivers over a very long period of time, Back then ATI were aggressively priced and much cheaper than their Nvidia and even 3dfx counterparts.
And that stayed with me for a long time, but these days drivers are generally great, and issues often only show up when big overclocks are applied.

Its really nice to see the battle hotting up between the two companies, shame it's pretty much a duopoly


----------



## Clukos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Well, NVIDIA better hurry up with the GeForce version of this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since they got away with selling Titan for $1000... perhaps Atlas will replace Titan, and they will have to sell it for $599. It balances itself out.


LOL 12gb ram... You'd need to run 16k resolution in order for that to be filled. It doesn't seem like much of a difference on paper though (from a Titan).


----------



## Fniz92

Just got my custom loop ordered and can't wait to build it around this card, i'm expecting atleast 1200MHz.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BakerMan1971*
> 
> I have to agree, and to add, when you're ready to buy.... you're ready to buy.
> 
> you will always get people who are passionate about brands rather than hard numbers, and it is not necessarily bad, it wasn't too many years ago that I used to say "People only every own ONE ATI graphics card" which pointed at terrible issues with drivers over a very long period of time, Back then ATI were aggressively priced and much cheaper than their Nvidia and even 3dfx counterparts.
> And that stayed with me for a long time, but these days drivers are generally great, and issues often only show up when big overclocks are applied.
> 
> Its really nice to see the battle hotting up between the two companies, shame it's pretty much a duopoly


I agree with both of you and

+9000 on the duopoly. We'd be getting a hell of a lot more competition in performance and price if there was 1 more competitor. I'm not ready to buy yet. My buy time is September of 2014 right before Star Citizen. I've been budgeting about 2000 dollars for the next build. R9 , GTX7xx don't even consider into that. It's good to know that AMD is getting competitive with the GPU side of things.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clukos*
> 
> LOL 12gb ram... You'd need to run 16k resolution in order for that to be filled. It doesn't seem like much of a difference on paper though (from a Titan).


Apparently you don't realize the Titan is a K6000 with half the Ram and some cuda cores disabled. Everyone who is anyone has known that the entire year. They used to throw these cards away. Now they give them driver support and sell them as high end consumer cards. Smart move. No developer in their right mind uses these things for GPU compute when there are Quadros and Firepros running around.


----------



## mfranco702

must admit, impressed, but this card gets soo hot, I might consider two in CF.....


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Why only 5 Ghz memory and not 6? lol, I sure hope non-reference cards have 6Ghz, the more the better. heck Nvidia has 7Ghz Samsung memory, why not 7Ghz...


----------



## criminal

Bravo AMD! Amazing job. They gave Nvidia a good kick in the teeth.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Why only 5 Ghz memory and not 6? lol, I sure hope non-reference cards have 6Ghz, the more the better. heck Nvidia has 7Ghz Samsung memory, why not 7Ghz...


Memory Clock is not everything, you have to look at bus width too (290X has 512-bit while Titan has 384-bit). R9 290X @ 6.0 GHz memory clock equals Titan @ 8.0 GHz in terms of theoretical bandwidth.
R9 290X memory @ 5.0 GHz is like clocking Titan's memory @ 6.67 GHz.


----------



## jojoenglish85

This is awesome, i can't wait to grab two.


----------



## szeged

290x on its way here, also have a titan arriving in a couple hours, ill leave it on stock air so i can test the 290x vs titan on air and water









someone start an friendly overclocking thread 290/290x vs 780/titan like the valley thread or something









im excited to see what this card can do in person, ive been waiting a long time lol.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Why only 5 Ghz memory and not 6? lol, I sure hope non-reference cards have 6Ghz, the more the better. heck Nvidia has 7Ghz Samsung memory, why not 7Ghz...


The card has a 512-bit memory bus that provides 320 GB/s bandwidth at 5 Ghz VRAM speed vs 288 GB/s of the HD 7970 Ghz Edition, GTX Titan and GTX 780 at 6 Ghz VRAM speed, all of which have a 384-bit memory bus.

The GTX 770 has 7 Ghz memory because Nvidia needed to get all the memory bandwidth it could to compete with the HD 7970 Ghz Edition. Mind you, the GTX 770 has a 256-bit memory bus with 224 GB/s of bandwidth.

VRAM speed isn't everything.


----------



## jojoenglish85

Whats sad is, even the if 780ti is faster, it will still cost an extra $100 and it will still only come with 3GB of VRAM, Nvidia failed hard this time. Well actually they didn't fail, they just got udercut big time.
They will leave their prices the same and pray that loyal fans will not leave them, then they will start leaking new video cards in December watch


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Why only 5 Ghz memory and not 6? lol, I sure hope non-reference cards have 6Ghz, the more the better. heck Nvidia has 7Ghz Samsung memory, why not 7Ghz...


it is hard to clock wider bus.

besides, 7GHz wont be much benefit if the GPU is too slow. AMD may be saving it for 20nm GPU. I wont be surprise they will strink 290x down to 20nm OC the chip+ release the 7Ghz version


----------



## EliteReplay

YES YES!







AMD u made **** im with tears! emotionless!







wow you pull this one out AMD thank!!! U MADE MY DAYYYYYYYYY


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jojoenglish85*
> 
> Whats sad is, even the if 780ti is faster, it will still cost an extra $100 and it will still only come with 3GB of VRAM, Nvidia failed hard this time. Well actually they didn't fail, they just got udercut big time.
> They will leave their prices the same and pray that loyal fans will not leave them, then they will start leaking new video cards in December watch


I think they have to cut prices. If I was buying soon, I would get a 290X is pricing stayed the same.


----------



## EliteReplay

ALATAR my brother... hope u change your mindset about AMD from now







and you are welcome to buy one from them


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 290x on its way here, also have a titan arriving in a couple hours, ill leave it on stock air so i can test the 290x vs titan on air and water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone start an friendly overclocking thread 290/290x vs 780/titan like the valley thread or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im excited to see what this card can do in person, ive been waiting a long time lol.


I smell a 3dfanboy competition brewing







You're a genius.


----------



## mfranco702

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I think they have to cut prices. If I was buying soon, I would get a 290X is pricing stayed the same.


never had an AMD chip, I always considered them under Nvidia's level, this time I think they made a great card plus price is very attractive, iJesus!! if I had waited before buying two 770s I would definitely try two of these, temps are my concern though, 90C is hell


----------



## Clockster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 290x on its way here, also have a titan arriving in a couple hours, ill leave it on stock air so i can test the 290x vs titan on air and water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone start an friendly overclocking thread 290/290x vs 780/titan like the valley thread or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im excited to see what this card can do in person, ive been waiting a long time lol.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> I smell a 3dfanboy competition brewing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a genius.


I'll def be taking part, although I'll only be running a single card under water, should still be awesome!!


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> I smell a 3dfanboy competition brewing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a genius.


haha







im excited for a renewal in activing on the top 30 threads we have here, its been pretty slow as of late.

I hope someone makes a 290xvstitan 290vs780 thread soon, i would do it myself but i usually dont have time to keep everything updated.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> I smell a 3dfanboy competition brewing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a genius.


This has been talked about in the past









Everyone wants a GK110 vs. Hawaii bench-off thread.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> This has been talked about in the past
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone wants a GK110 vs. Hawaii bench-off thread.


Apart from you mate, ATI are undefeated in these competitions. This is bad news for you my friend









http://www.overclock.net/t/824778/3d-fanboy-competition-nvidia-vs-ati-completed
http://www.overclock.net/t/1132056/3d-fanboy-competition-nvidia-vs-ati-2011


----------



## fateswarm

In any case people should admit this is a pre-overclocked card. By definition, obviously and without contest. Techpowerup made a review and tried to overclock them in the end, they ended up saying at a certain point *the performance was worse overclocked because the stock temp was already exactly before throttling*.


----------



## Hattifnatten

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> In any case people should admit this is a pre-overclocked card. By definition, obviously and without contest. Techpowerup made a review and tried to overclock them in the end, they ended up saying *at a certain point the performance was worse overclocked because the stock temp was already exactly before throttling*.











Then what is every nvidia-card from this generation?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> In any case people should admit this is a pre-overclocked card. By definition, obviously and without contest. Techpowerup made a review and tried to overclock them in the end, they ended up saying *at a certain point the performance was worse overclocked because the stock temp was already exactly before throttling*.


So far it looks a lot like the 7970/680 situation is reversed. The 680 was nearly maxed out while the 7970 had a lot of headroom, but now Hawaii looks to be very nearly maxed out while GK110 has lots of headroom. This is a card that is begging for water or custom cooling - the reference cooler is a joke. Techpowerup's card throttled to _570Mhz_ in Quiet mode.


----------



## Moragg

I expect GK110 to win on air since the reference cooler on Hawaii is appalling, and a draw on water.


----------



## zealord

are there any OC reviews? I can only find a few reviews mentioning them and some only get 1070mhz out of this card, which seems ridiciously low.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> are there any OC reviews? I can only find a few reviews mentioning them and some only get 1070mhz out of this card, which seems ridiciously low.


Guru3D, Techpowerup, Hardware Canucks, HardOCP, PCPer all overclocked their cards. None hit 1200. 1100-1150 was about the max. Most used CCC though, I think, except Guru3D.


----------



## mboner1

Would be nice to see a few of the nvidia fanboys stop looking through their green goggles for a bit.

On another note, i found this video of Alatar and a mate talking about his titan.


----------



## Hukkel

hahaha epic!!! ^^


----------



## specopsFI

Compared to my initial expectations this is an amazing achievement by AMD. That chip is an engineering marvel and I give it credit for that.

But. Even though I'm very exploratory with GPUs, this one will not get any runtime from me. That cooler kills it for me, as I thought it would from the very first leaked image. Hawaii was always doomed to be hot and power hungry and that fan design wasn't really in balance even with the 7970 (GE). I've given Nvidia my fair share of moaning on GPU Boost 2.0: it can be circumvented but I'm funny in a way that I like my warranty. Even with the stock BIOS, I'm still getting 18-20% more performance from overclocking my 780. Similarly, I'm going to give AMD a whole lot of moaning on their thoroughly crappy decision on using that horrible cooler. As of now, that thing is limiting the 290X OC performance gain to around 10% if one is not keen on voiding warranty by replacing the cooler. That just about evens the performance gap between the two, leaving me with a card that I've been gaming with for 5 months getting similar OC performance and getting it with way, way, WAAAYYY less noise.

The stock performance is really great and the pricing is another positive surprise to me, but still: I got my 780 back in May for 580 euros and 290X is looking like 550 euros in Finland. So not a revolutionary product, but very competitive if it wasn't for that cooler.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> are there any OC reviews? I can only find a few reviews mentioning them and some only get 1070mhz out of this card, which seems ridiciously low.


Cooling being the bottleneck - they didn't raise fan speeds because the sound levels are really unpleasant, so not many end-users will ramp it up. I also saw it mentioned that the setup (6 pin+8 pin+PCI-E) can only deliver 300W of power, which could also be a bottleneck once temps are sorted. Not sure on this though because Alatar said GK110 pulls 500W.


----------



## Bartouille

AMD not aiming at "ultra-high-end". AMD trolled Nvidia so hard.







I don't even play games much these days but I feel like supporting them by buying this card, seriously. Great freaking job!


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Guru3D, Techpowerup, Hardware Canucks, HardOCP, PCPer all overclocked their cards. None hit 1200. 1100-1150 was about the max. Most used CCC though, I think, except Guru3D.


Yeah thanks. The Guru3D review is worrisome. Only 5% increase in performance. I remember the 780 could get 20-30% more performance from OC at release days reviews.


----------



## sat1va

now - to upgrade or not to upgrade


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sat1va*
> 
> now - to upgrade or not to upgrade


From CFX 7970 @1200/1500 on 1080p? Don't bother. Also love the double irony in calling it the "Green" machine


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sat1va*
> 
> now - to upgrade or not to upgrade


Nope, wait for custom cards or go water


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 290x on its way here, also have a titan arriving in a couple hours, ill leave it on stock air so i can test the 290x vs titan on air and water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone start an friendly overclocking thread 290/290x vs 780/titan like the valley thread or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im excited to see what this card can do in person, ive been waiting a long time lol.


What? You bought a 290x? But....but...but I heard several "reputable" people here say you were fiercely defending your Titan and were an Nvidia enthusiast? LOL.

Looking forward to your results. Just be prepared that if it doesn't turn out in favor of the 290x, your name will be poop all over again.


----------



## WiL11o6

Looks amazing for the price, but heat and noise is a concern for me.

Is there any reviews of an OC'd 290x vs OC'd 780? Something along the lines of 1100mhz 290x vs 1200mhz 780? We know clock for clock, the 290x is faster but with it being heat limited due to the cooler, I wonder how it fairs against a 1200mhz 780 on air.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fniz92*
> 
> Nope, wait for custom cards or go water


When will custom cards come out, any idea? That's what i'm waiting for.

I tried cooling my 7950 wi th water, but there was a mal function and the bucket of water i emptied on my gpu somehow caused a short circuit. Strange. Only going to use non reference air cooler in future.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiL11o6*
> 
> Looks amazing for the price, but heat and noise is a concern for me.
> 
> Is there any reviews of an OC'd 290x vs OC'd 780? Something along the lines of 1100mhz 290x vs 1200mhz 780? We know clock for clock, the 290x is faster but with it being heat limited due to the cooler, I wonder how it fairs against a 1200mhz 780 on air.


yeah would like to see some tests like this too, but apparently the R9 290X overclocks as good as the 6990 and the 590.


----------



## provost

This will definitely shake things up. Does anyone know if 290x would be a limited run?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> What? You bought a 290x? But....but...but I heard several "reputable" people here say you were fiercely defending your Titan and were an Nvidia enthusiast? LOL.
> 
> Looking forward to your results. Just be prepared that if it doesn't turn out in favor of the 290x, your name will be poop all over again.


lol, all i did was point out how they were wrong about some things and that immediately turned me into a green fanboy, despite me having a rig with 4 7970s in it right behind me









I dont care what they call me, im gonna show my results 100% how they turned out, not gonna edit them in anyways, if it turns out in favor of the titan and i get called a fanboy, so be it, atleast people without red in their eyes will have some info to go on when deciding on what card to take.


----------



## el gappo

Team Alatar firing warning shots!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingpin*
> 290x huh? Well Titan still has a little left still before Ti madness begins EVGA breaks 8k Firestrike Extreme with cpu still on air! Whats next????


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> This will definitely shake things up. Does anyone know if 290x would be a limited run?


no it wont be, itll be just like the 7970 which is still being sold today.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> Team Alatar....


Party of 1?

JUST PLAYIN' !!


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> Team Alatar firing warning shots!


Do want 780Ti classy.

Kingpin's Titan GPU score is only around 25% faster than mine on water









Bring it on future 290X owners


----------



## Bartouille

I wonder if this still works with my MK-26 cooler? Or does it need a shim just like the 7900?


----------



## Pheonix777z

Best review comment.
Quote:


> My neighbors actually complained, asking why I used power tools that late at night.


http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/31.html

Lol.


----------



## Fniz92

Soon


----------



## thestache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Techpowerup tested voltages on their card. Good scaling, but the power load went up pretty dramatically. Still topped out at only ~1200MHz though.
> 
> 
> It's basically AMD's GTX 480 - awesome performance if you can keep it powered and cool.


Yeah I saw that but no mention of how to and how much voltage tweaking will be possible. Might grab one if I can get one up to 1200mhz and if it compares to a GTX Titan at the same clocks. For half the price here, I would be stupid not to.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheonix777z*
> 
> Best review comment.
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/31.html
> 
> Lol.


hahaha


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Would be nice to see a few of the nvidia fanboys stop looking through their green goggles for a bit.


The card is pre-overclocked. People try to overclock them and they get *worse* performance because the stock temps are already at the throttling limit.

Let's see who has the goggles.


----------



## BakerMan1971

I will reserve judgement until real world tests are done by real people and not the many review sites which are almost never unbiased.


----------



## wstanci3

Reviews are what was expected.
As there been any word of aftermarket coolers?


----------



## eXecuution

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> Any idea on when non-reference cards will be out? More specifically the Asus Direct c u cooling?


This, please. Backplate and beastly cooler for only a little bit more money than reference? Do want. Still looking into buying a gfx card for my sig rig (well, I will as soon as I get the winnings for the contest) and it looks like this is it


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eXecuution*
> 
> This, please. Backplate and beastly cooler for only a little bit more money than reference? Do want. Still looking into buying a gfx card for my sig rig (well, I will as soon as I get the winnings for the contest) and it looks like this is it


Probaly when 780 Ti launches, late November.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The card is pre-overclocked. People try to overclock them and they get *worse* performance because the stock temps are already at the throttling limit.
> 
> Let's see who has the goggles.


So your complaining cos it's too well optimized? Or are you complaining because it's so much cheaper than a titan which it beats clock for clock?

But seriously people will find a way to overclock it properly. Was the titan bios overclock method available pre launch? please do answer.


----------



## specopsFI

Actually, besides the cooler there is another thing that really bugs me about the Hawaii. If I loathe GPU Boost 2.0 then how could I not loathe this new Powertune? Seriously, it's even more smoke and mirrors than GPU Boost 2.0! At least Nvidia didn't sell the Titan as a "(up to) 1GHz" GPU, but as a 876+MHz GPU. In effect, both of these are throttling mechanisms that are designed to make the cards look good for benchmarking and leave the actual gaming performance veiled. Seriously, that's two things that I've always loved about ATI/AMD: them supporting open standards and their clear-cut overclocking. And what are the main points for this R9 series launch? TrueAudio, Mantle and this new Powertune!









I give Hawaii one more chance and that is the 290 vanilla. If those disabled shaders are enough to keep it more balanced for OC/OV/temps/noise, then that thing I could take for a spin (at least if it's $449 or less).


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The card is pre-overclocked. People try to overclock them and they get *worse* performance because the stock temps are already at the throttling limit.
> 
> Let's see who has the goggles.


How do you reckon the 290X would do if it's cooler was on-par with GK110?


----------



## Thunderclap

Job extremely well done to AMD! Awesome performance at an even more awesome price! It's definitely a great performing card, because obviously all that complain, only do due to the heat and noise, which aren't really that big problems to me.







A well ventilated case + an air conditioner in my room equals heat = problem solved. When I game I game with headphones so noise isn't a problem, either. And in the rest of the time leave the card in "Quiet" mode equals noise = problem solved. Who doesn't like the heat and noise should go and buy a $999 Titan, others like me would me plenty happy with a $549 R9 290X.







And I wouldn't judge just yet, wait for non reference cards to show up like Matrix Platinums, SuperOverclocks, Vapor-Xs, TOXICs, PCSs+, Double Dissipations, etc. and then judge it's overclocked and thermal performance.







Once again great job to AMD, I hope they finally gouge Nvidia's prices, because obviously their cards are so overpriced, especially in the high end class, that it's not even amusing... Well now, AMD, my wallet is ready!


----------



## BizzareRide

Nvidia should just release the 2880-core part and price it at $600 and drop the price of the Ti 780 and stock 780.


----------



## Cid

Sweet baby jesus dat noize. And temps. It's a good thing I'm way too much of a cheap-ass to ever buy flagships or I'd have quite the decision ahead of me. Deal with the noise, which I hate, and get a cheaper card but lose that profit on my electricity bill, or get a cooler and quieter but overpriced card I'll eventually win back in electricity bills.

Now, I'm assuming electricity bills don't matter to OCNers, so let's bring on the water and non-ref coolers already! If Asus or someone can get those temps and noise levels down and it turns out it's a beast under water, then nVidia's going to have to come off its high horse and lower some prices pronto.


----------



## Moustache

What I find interesting is that 290X average clock rate is 850mhz while gaming. What if the average clock rate is at 1000mhz? Must be a beast.


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> What I find interesting is that 290X average clock rate is 850mhz while gaming. What if the average clock rate is at 1000mhz? Must be a beast.


Intresting, didn't know the reference cooler was that bad.
What a beast this will be with custom cards & loops.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fniz92*
> 
> Intresting, didn't know the reference cooler was that bad.
> What a beast this will be with *custom cards* & loops.


Speaking of that, has there been any word of nonreference or a DC2T or Twin-Frozr?


----------



## Pablogamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> What I find interesting is that 290X average clock rate is 850mhz while gaming. What if the average clock rate is at 1000mhz? Must be a beast.


This is in Silent Mode.


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Speaking of that, has there been any word of nonreference or a DC2T or Twin-Frozr?


I spoke with Linus and he was awaiting answer from the custom retailers.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fniz92*
> 
> I spoke with Linus and he was awaiting answer from the custom retailers.


Ok. Thank you!
If custom cards come out in less than ~4 weeks, then I might sell my 780 for one... Let's hope.


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Fniz92*
> 
> Intresting, didn't know the reference cooler was that bad.
> What a beast this will be with *custom cards* & loops.
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of that, has there been any word of nonreference or a DC2T or Twin-Frozr?
Click to expand...

Never mind that, I want to see a WindForce 3X slapped on top of this! It has a rated TDP of 450W and I can see it being up to the challenge judging by the 680 I got.
I just hope that Gigabyte are not going to use Elpida chips (not that I would feel any real world performance difference from the bit of extra VRAM overclock, but still...







) on their 290X.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Never mind that, I want to see a WindForce 3X slapped on top of this! It has a rated TDP of 450W and I can see it being up to the challenge judging by the 680 I got.
> I just hope that Gigabyte are not going to use Elpida chips (not that I would feel any real world performance difference from the bit of extra VRAM overclock, but still...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) on their 290X.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125479
Here's the Windforce 3x


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cid*
> 
> Sweet baby jesus dat noize. And temps. It's a good thing I'm way too much of a cheap-ass to ever buy flagships or I'd have quite the decision ahead of me. Deal with the noise, which I hate, and get a cheaper card but lose that profit on my electricity bill, or get a cooler and quieter but overpriced card I'll eventually win back in electricity bills.
> 
> Now, I'm assuming electricity bills don't matter to OCNers, so let's bring on the water and non-ref coolers already! If Asus or someone can get those temps and noise levels down and it turns out it's a beast under water, then nVidia's going to have to come off its high horse and lower some prices pronto.


Worry not, you'll save it all back on heating







Though Arctic should provide a good aftermarket cooler that will dramatically lower temps and noise so let you OC further - though it won't be cheap. That said, if an Arctic Accelero will let you hit 1150/1200 on core then that's still matching Titan for a lot less.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pablogamer*
> 
> This is in Silent Mode.


I don't know where you got that from but TPU has it at an average of 900mhz with uber bios. That's very low and 1000mhz should be amazing.

Doesn't Titan runs at an average of 990mhz? http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/15


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Looks like GTX 780 @ 1333 MHz/ 6840 performs around the same level as R9 290X @ 1075/6000 according to Guru3d. Probably drivers did their magic for the 780 but I think the gap is around that CFC.
If these numbers are any accurate R9 290X @ 1075/6000 will probably equal Titan @ 1150-1176 MHz.

MSI 780 Lightning OC result (28/8)
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_780_lightning_review,28.html

R9 290X OC result
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,17.html

Can't wait to see what watercooled voltage unlocked R9 290X's can do.


----------



## APhamX

Goodbye Crossfire 7870XT LE, hello R 290X Single Card


----------



## psyside

What i just find out is that, average clocks on the 290X are all over the place. As an average from like ~ 10 games, the clock is JUST 840mhz, according to PCPER, and yet it wins - matches, or destroys Titan higher resolutions!

DEAR GODDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Pablogamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> I don't know where you got that from but TPU has it at an average of 900mhz with uber bios. That's very low and 1000mhz should be amazing.
> 
> Doesn't Titan runs at an average of 990mhz? http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/15


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> I don't know where you got that from but TPU has it at an average of 900mhz with uber bios. That's very low and 1000mhz should be amazing.
> 
> Doesn't Titan runs at an average of 990mhz? http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/15



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> Looks like GTX 780 @ 1333 MHz/ 6840 performs around the same level as R9 290X @ 1075/6000 according to Guru3d. Probably drivers did their magic for the 780 but I think the gap is around that CFC.
> 
> MSI 780 Lightning OC result (28/8)
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_780_lightning_review,28.html
> 
> R9 290X OC result
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,17.html
> 
> Can't wait to see what watercooled voltage unlocked R9 290X's can do.


They had terrible throttling on the 780 if you actually check the graphs... As far as I can see, they don't even show power. So who knows how bad that was...


----------



## furyn9

290X to my 780 lol


----------



## tsm106

Cue whiny old reasons to hate on AMD from our friendly unbiased local moderator.


----------



## fragamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> Never mind that, I want to see a WindForce 3X slapped on top of this! It has a rated TDP of 450W and I can see it being up to the challenge judging by the 680 I got.
> I just hope that Gigabyte are not going to use Elpida chips (not that I would feel any real world performance difference from the bit of extra VRAM overclock, but still...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) on their 290X.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125479
> Here's the Windforce 3x
Click to expand...

Yeah, that had my eye. Too bad we don't know when they will (be able to) update it, and that newegg doesn't ship outside of US. I can't wait to see it actually tested out! So far this cooler is fantastic.
I'm keeping my GPU at 100% load 24/7 folding, fans curve is somewhat aggressive and my core stays at 59o top @ 1293MHz fed with a current of 1.212V and fans spin up to 51%. VRMs are not even close, too.
Pls local retailer, get this in stock.


----------



## zealord

Well overall the card is way worse, besides performance, than what I expected, but the price pro frame ratio is good.


----------



## sugarhell

I will agree with blademaster. Amd just pulled a 4870


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Cue whiny old reasons to hate on AMD from our friendly unbiased local moderator.


i'm just sayin...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Hi, I'd like to place a bet for $599 and the performance of a 780 please. If a system is available, $550-650 with the performance of +/-20% 780


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> These cards wont match highly OC'd 780s or Titans


/friendly banter


----------



## y2kcamaross

Was in the mood to change up my gpus, im sure I could get $1000 or so for both of my 780s and only have to pay a small amount out of pocket for 2 290xs, just don't think it would be worth the hassle, both of my cards [email protected]/6800 so I doubt the 290x would give me much more, if any, performance, at least nothing more than 1 or 2 fps


----------



## bmt22033

Are there any non-reference coolers that are a blower-style design? I'm thinking about going CF but I was under the impression that most aftermarket coolers disperse more heat into the case instead of venting out the back?


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> Are there any non-reference coolers that are a blower-style design? I'm thinking about going CF but I was under the impression that most aftermarket coolers disperse more heat into the case instead of venting out the back?


not that I know of


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Was in the mood to change up my gpus, im sure I could get $1000 or so for both of my 780s and only have to pay a small amount out of pocket for 2 290xs, just don't think it would be worth the hassle, both of my cards [email protected]/6800 so I doubt the 290x would give me much more, if any, performance, at least nothing more than 1 or 2 fps


Records are dropping while hawaii is on stock volts, no crossfire driver, on stock pcb. And then in a month or so, mantle which will be baked into the biggest game engines on this world. Good luck.


----------



## furyn9

Some people can't accept defeat


----------



## criminal

Check out the price/performance:

hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-18.html

Better than both the 7970 and 7990!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I will agree with blademaster. Amd just pulled a 4870


Yes they did.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Non reference cards with non reference coolers will really make this card shine. I bet the Asus dcii is really going to be a beast! Aio mods to this card are probably going to be almost a must as well with temperatures. With sufficient watercooling this card is going to be nuts...


----------



## szeged

need EK blocks in US asap, frozencpu has them as "orderable" and PPC doesnt even list them yet


----------



## whtchocla7e

So, on average the 290x is 30% faster than the 280x but is priced 85% higher. I suppose I'll go with the 280x.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Records are dropping while hawaii is on stock volts, no crossfire driver, on stock pcb. And then in a month or so, mantle which will be baked into the biggest game engines on this world. Good luck.


Come on now. Even you have to admit there is no have to reason to upgrade from 780 to the 290X.


----------



## psyside

Can't wait custom cards to hit the market, Nvidia fanboys will not know what hit them


----------



## wstanci3

I have an unused 780L here... I wonder if I should sell it and wait for the 290x custom models? Or would that be a waste.


----------



## flopper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I will agree with blademaster. Amd just pulled a 4870


9700 pro also









price here is insanly good.
480euro for 290x.
Mantle coming, oh boy


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

I foresee picking up 3-4 7970 GHz editions's on the market soon for about $250 each and 2-3 GTX 780's for $425 soon.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I will agree with blademaster. Amd just pulled a 4870


Hey, I liked my 4870 and pair of 4870x2's before I went to nVidia. I never needed to turn on the house heater that winter at all. Of course I did have to get my first 1kw power supply and owed my soul to the electric company, but still.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Records are dropping while hawaii is on stock volts, no crossfire driver, on stock pcb. And then in a month or so, mantle which will be baked into the biggest game engines on this world. Good luck.


well I always buy reference with stock pcbs, and i don't water cool. I guess I could always replace the 7970s in my other system with a few 290x's, though that might anger the wife







....if she finds out


----------



## Kinaesthetic

*LTT OC vs OC review:*

Didn't see this posted on the front, nor am I going to go through the myriad of pages to check. However, Linus posted his review on the R9 290X, with an OC to OC comparison. And it doesn't look good versus the GTX 780. Especially in terms of overclocking headroom from the reference AMD cooler versus the reference GTX 780 cooler. Both at 1080p, and 1440p, across various games, many which are Gaming Evolved titles.






*Crysis 3 - Very High, 8xMSAA,1080p*


GTX 780: 44.6 fps
R9 290X: 40 fps

*Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Procession, 1080p*


GTX 780: 107.8 fps
R9 290X: 103.9 fps

*Tomb Raider - Ultimate, 1080p*


GTX 780: 93 fps
R9. 290X: 87.8 fps

*Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1080p*


GTX 780: 69.6 fps
R9 290X: 56.6 fps

*Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1600p*


GTX 780: 46.6 fps
R9 290X: 43.7 fps

*Far Cry 3 - Ultra, 8x MSAA, 1440p*


GTX 780: 32.4 fps
R9 290X: 32.3 fps

*Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Processing, 1440p*


GTX 780: 67.3 fps
R9 290X: 65.8 fps

Apparently, those numbers were from both cards clocked to the maximum that they could get. That could change with OCN'ers, but this is pretty much the first OC vs OC gaming comparison. And it actually backs up with TTL was saying, regardless of whether fanboy circlejerkers thought it was a bad review (I'm personally ambivalent on it).

At least this card has price/performance going for it heavily. But that could change with Nvidia price cuts.


----------



## amd655

Great card, the worrying thing is you would expect this to be better on thermals and consumption LOL...

It's worse than Fermi starting out.................

Still good performance is good.


----------



## Ghoxt

I know the price / performance looks fabulous even to primary Nvidia owners! Yesterday I stared at the lone EVGA Titan SC inside the locked display case at the CompUSA in Deerfield, Florida @ $1029 yesterday and just shook my head.









Overall hopefully this will cause a Market correction in prices. Though Nvidia's 780-TI will have to be really special to keep up, and also might prove what many have thought, that is, Nvidia has been sandbagging, and have available performance upside at will to give, but they are just playing with us only barely inching ahead of the competition. Future proofing while NV Engineers tinker and give the thumbs up for the future keeping Jen happy and able to give stock analysts the confidence they are looking for.

AMD will get plently of Orders which we all need to happen. Build it and they will come. The infighting we all see is really pointless and stupid. AMD competing is in all our interest. Yes we got a history lessen in basic supply & demand this cycle.









P.S.
Nvidia got away with it because there was nothing else at that performance level for 9 months. However it shows EXACTLY what happens when there is no competition. We see the same from Intel no doubt in the CPU space.

CPU's however...it's a dream, and it's likely not intended to be a focus by AMD anytime soon.


----------



## szeged

once these get under water then we can give them proper overclocks. that reference cooler is awful lol.


----------



## AJR1775

Why are the different benches so across the board? On OC benches some have the 290X at 5% above 780/Titan and others have the 780/Titan at 5% above the 290X. Just watched the LTT review, not sure how much stock you guys place in Linus, if any at all, but he seems like a thorough & trustworthy fellow. Anywho, even if it is under by just 5% it's totally worth at the price point, that's the real decider IMO.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Come on now. Even you have to admit there is no have to reason to upgrade from 780 to the 290X.


At least not now. I reckon custom 290 will go for $425-$475, be quiet and perform much better than the 780. Add on Mantle and TrueAudio (the latter of which will be very good if implemented, audio does wonders for immersion) and that will be better.

Most people are forgetting the flagship card costs a lot more than the one just under for not a huge perf difference so custom 290 will in all likelihood be equal to 780 classy for a lot less.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Didn't see this posted on the front, nor am I going to go through the myriad of pages to check. However, Linus posted his review on the R9 290X, with an OC to OC comparison. And it doesn't look good versus the GTX 780. Especially in terms of overclocking headroom from the reference AMD cooler versus the reference GTX 780 cooler. Both at 1080p, and 1440p, across various games, many which are Gaming Evolved titles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Crysis 3 - Very High, 8xMSAA,1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 44.6 fps
> R9 290X: 40 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Procession, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 107.8 fps
> R9 290X: 103.9 fps
> *Tomb Raider - Ultimate, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 93 fps
> R9. 290X: 87.8 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 69.6 fps
> R9 290X: 56.6 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1600p*
> 
> GTX 780: 46.6 fps
> R9 290X: 43.7 fps
> *Far Cry 3 - Ultra, 8x MSAA, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 32.4 fps
> R9 290X: 32.3 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Processing, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 67.3 fps
> R9 290X: 65.8 fps
> Apparently, those numbers were from both cards clocked to the maximum that they could get. That could change with OCN'ers, but this is pretty much the first OC vs OC gaming comparison. And it actually backs up with TTL was saying, regardless of whether fanboy circlejerkers thought it was a bad review (I'm personally ambivalent on it).
> 
> At least this card has price/performance going for it heavily. But that could change with Nvidia price cuts.


hmm why does it not even beat the 780? The 780 Ti is coming


----------



## tpi2007

I was wondering, why didn't AMD ship the reference card with the HD 7990 cooler ? Is there some reason ? Maybe so there will be a big difference between reference and third party open air coolers ? Or maybe OEMs insisted that a blower type cooler be made ? Then again, OEM's that put one of these on a case will be the high-end OEMs that use proper cases with proper ventilation, so what would be the difference to an HD 7990 ?

As to the pricing, can you guys imagine if the R9 290 costs $449.99 ? If it performs just under and at and slightly above the GTX 780, the GTX 770 4 GB will become the worst priced card in history in a week, which means it'll probably be discontinued, with the GTX 780 taking its place. Meanwhile the GTX 770 2 GB will probably come down closer to the R9 280X's price.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I was wondering, why didn't AMD ship the reference card with the HD 7990 cooler ? Is there some reason ? Maybe so there will be a big difference between reference and third party open air coolers ? Or maybe OEMs insisted that a blower type cooler be made ? Then again, OEM's that put one of these on a case will be the high-end OEMs that use proper cases with proper ventilation, so what would be the difference to an HD 7990 ?
> 
> As to the pricing, can you guys imagine if the R9 290 costs $449.99 ? If it performs just under and at and slightly above the GTX 780, the GTX 770 4 GB will become the worst priced card in history in a week, which means it'll probab ly be discontinued, with the GTX 780 taking its place. Meanwhile the GTX 770 2 GB will probably come down closer to the R9 280X's price.


because crossfire temps would be nuts with the triple fan design lol


----------



## villain

It will be hard to resist once a DC2T shows up.


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Come on now. Even you have to admit there is no have to reason to upgrade from 780 to the 290X.


Because it wouldn't be an upgrade? To me it seems like the comparison is pretty close to what the 7970 was to the 680. Seems some folks are harping on specific reviews, if you look at all of them some go one and others go another way. I think I'll wait until some unbiased OCN'ers who own both get their hands on them and do some comparisons.


----------



## HighTemplar

All of the people arguing with those of us that had faith that the benches released were more than a fluke, how do you feel now?









"290X will NEVER beat a Titan"

roffles...


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> *LTT OC vs OC review:*
> 
> Didn't see this posted on the front, nor am I going to go through the myriad of pages to check. However, Linus posted his review on the R9 290X, with an OC to OC comparison. And it doesn't look good versus the GTX 780. Especially in terms of overclocking headroom from the reference AMD cooler versus the reference GTX 780 cooler. Both at 1080p, and 1440p, across various games, many which are Gaming Evolved titles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Crysis 3 - Very High, 8xMSAA,1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 44.6 fps
> R9 290X: 40 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Procession, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 107.8 fps
> R9 290X: 103.9 fps
> *Tomb Raider - Ultimate, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 93 fps
> R9. 290X: 87.8 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 69.6 fps
> R9 290X: 56.6 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1600p*
> 
> GTX 780: 46.6 fps
> R9 290X: 43.7 fps
> *Far Cry 3 - Ultra, 8x MSAA, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 32.4 fps
> R9 290X: 32.3 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Processing, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 67.3 fps
> R9 290X: 65.8 fps
> Apparently, those numbers were from both cards clocked to the maximum that they could get. That could change with OCN'ers, but this is pretty much the first OC vs OC gaming comparison. And it actually backs up with TTL was saying, regardless of whether fanboy circlejerkers thought it was a bad review (I'm personally ambivalent on it).
> 
> At least this card has price/performance going for it heavily. But that could change with Nvidia price cuts.


Sorry to disappoint your fanboy rant, but without boost clock measurements, this test means one big 0, if you are not aware by now, the 290X throttle alot even on stock, bye.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Sorry to disappoint your fanboy rant, but without boost clock measurements, this test means one big 0, if you are not aware by now, the 290X throttle alot even on stock, bye.


Wow talk about taking the offense, to a pretty non Fanboy Rant. I'd hate to see how you'd respond to a true one







It seemed pretty middle of the road to me...


----------



## Ha-Nocri

1. Price is where it should be. I will never again give my money to nVidia until they change their color from green ($), which will never happen ofc.

2. In silent mode @ ~850MHz it beats 780 @ ~950MHz by 7%, being 100$ cheaper.

3. If you want to compare it to the titan use 2x 290x in CF since they are priced similarly than. Otherwise don't bother.

4. I have a feeling this thing has so much potential. Think it will beat a 780 @1400MHz only @ 1150-1200MHz, which I think every card with a decent cooler will easily do.

5. CF is fixed finally for eyefinity.

All this for 550$. The way it's meant to be played indeed








Wonder who in their right mind would buy a 780 over this?!


----------



## jtom320

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> *LTT OC vs OC review:*
> 
> Didn't see this posted on the front, nor am I going to go through the myriad of pages to check. However, Linus posted his review on the R9 290X, with an OC to OC comparison. And it doesn't look good versus the GTX 780. Especially in terms of overclocking headroom from the reference AMD cooler versus the reference GTX 780 cooler. Both at 1080p, and 1440p, across various games, many which are Gaming Evolved titles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Crysis 3 - Very High, 8xMSAA,1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 44.6 fps
> R9 290X: 40 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Procession, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 107.8 fps
> R9 290X: 103.9 fps
> *Tomb Raider - Ultimate, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 93 fps
> R9. 290X: 87.8 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 69.6 fps
> R9 290X: 56.6 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1600p*
> 
> GTX 780: 46.6 fps
> R9 290X: 43.7 fps
> *Far Cry 3 - Ultra, 8x MSAA, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 32.4 fps
> R9 290X: 32.3 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Processing, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 67.3 fps
> R9 290X: 65.8 fps
> Apparently, those numbers were from both cards clocked to the maximum that they could get. That could change with OCN'ers, but this is pretty much the first OC vs OC gaming comparison. And it actually backs up with TTL was saying, regardless of whether fanboy circlejerkers thought it was a bad review (I'm personally ambivalent on it).
> 
> At least this card has price/performance going for it heavily. But that could change with Nvidia price cuts.


Yeah this was speculated back on the second page.

Once I read through three reviews that said 7-10% performance increase from overclocking at 100% fan speed I had a feeling it'd likely fall behind maxed.

Price/perf is still there. It's just pretty clear that AMD pushed it as far as it'd go and there's not much left.


----------



## villain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> *LTT OC vs OC review:*
> 
> Didn't see this posted on the front, nor am I going to go through the myriad of pages to check. However, Linus posted his review on the R9 290X, with an OC to OC comparison. And it doesn't look good versus the GTX 780. Especially in terms of overclocking headroom from the reference AMD cooler versus the reference GTX 780 cooler. Both at 1080p, and 1440p, across various games, many which are Gaming Evolved titles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Crysis 3 - Very High, 8xMSAA,1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 44.6 fps
> R9 290X: 40 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Procession, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 107.8 fps
> R9 290X: 103.9 fps
> *Tomb Raider - Ultimate, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 93 fps
> R9. 290X: 87.8 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1080p*
> 
> GTX 780: 69.6 fps
> R9 290X: 56.6 fps
> *Star Citizen Hanger Alpha - Very High, 1600p*
> 
> GTX 780: 46.6 fps
> R9 290X: 43.7 fps
> *Far Cry 3 - Ultra, 8x MSAA, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 32.4 fps
> R9 290X: 32.3 fps
> *Bioshock Infinite - Ultra, Alt. Processing, 1440p*
> 
> GTX 780: 67.3 fps
> R9 290X: 65.8 fps
> Apparently, those numbers were from both cards clocked to the maximum that they could get. That could change with OCN'ers, but this is pretty much the first OC vs OC gaming comparison. And it actually backs up with TTL was saying, regardless of whether fanboy circlejerkers thought it was a bad review (I'm personally ambivalent on it).
> 
> At least this card has price/performance going for it heavily. But that could change with Nvidia price cuts.


Interesting. The 780 beat the 290X in every single 1080p test once overclocked. But I wonder what the clocks were.


----------



## Alatar

Bench-off thread for people to post results in:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436635/ocn-gk110-vs-hawaii-bench-off-thread

If anyone is interested that is.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtom320*
> 
> Yeah this was speculated back on the second page.
> 
> Once I read through three reviews that said 7-10% performance increase from overclocking at 100% fan speed I had a feeling it'd likely fall behind maxed.
> 
> Price/perf is still there. It's just pretty clear that AMD pushed it as far as it'd go and there's not much left.












Its exactly like Tahiti, which has nothing left lolz.


----------



## ASSSETS

Probably the only game 290x were losing to 780 is BF3. For [email protected] bench and power usage not in AMD favor. But with price/performance 100% win! Thank you AMD.
P.S. This is my 600th post.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ASSSETS*
> 
> Probably the only game 290x were losing to 780 is BF3. For [email protected] bench and power usage not in AMD favor. But with price/performance 100% win! Thank you AMD.


Oh you know why? Single player and the first mission that the player just walk. rofl


----------



## Levesque

And they are selling the Titans 999$. Good God Nvidia stop smoking crack!


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> And they are selling the Titans 999$. Good God Nvidia stop smoking crack!


Omg, speak of the devil.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> And they are selling the Titans 999$. Good God Nvidia stop smoking crack!


Oh come on, how else are they going to pay for it all?


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> And they are selling the Titans 999$. Good God Nvidia stop smoking crack!


$1289 in Australia until a few days ago









Honestly if i owned a 780 i wouldn't even think about switching to a 290x, the difference should be small. I think anyone upgrading from a 670, 7970 or below should be looking no further than the 290x. It will be the best price to performance card amongst the big boys. Doing a side grade from 780 to 290x is a waste of time, but for any people that were looking at buying the 780 or the titan now, well i think 99% of them will/ should go the 290x.


----------



## maarten12100

Can't wait for it to be available in NL though I think it will by the time 290 launches and I just go with that.
Nvidia is going to be really butt hurt once Mantle benches drop and they are just as stuck on 28nm as AMD


----------



## flash2021

sapphire R9 290X with BF4 is $579.99 on newegg incase some haven't checked yet. there are $549 models that are sold out already


----------



## eternal7trance

Would be nice if we could get some with custom coolers asap


----------



## skupples

Let's see it overclock... 290x OC'd vs. Ref 780 OC'd & 290x OC'd vs. Titan OC'd... This is OCN after all, & anyone who say's that doesn't matter is fooling them selves. It may not matter on My Little Pony threads. But it most definitely matter's here. That being said, i'm glad AMD was able to raise the bar & release a card thats +1/-1% a Titan for 550$... Gives me warm fuzzies inside for what freaky fast Maxwell prices may be... Though, knowing Nvidia, PhysX+G-sync= we can charge w/e we want!

as to the memory... Quite a few of the "cheap" brands are most definitely using Elpida in both 290x & 290... Some one linked a break down of it in another thread... If i didn't have to leave for work 6 minutes ago I would go find it.


----------



## jason387

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Let's see it overclock... 290x OC'd vs. Ref 780 OC'd & 290x OC'd vs. Titan OC'd... This is OCN after all, & anyone who say's that doesn't matter is fooling them selves. It may not matter on My Little Pony threads. But it most definitely matter's here. That being said, i'm glad AMD was able to raise the bar & release a card thats +1/-1% a Titan for 550$... Gives me warm fuzzies inside for what freaky fast Maxwell prices may be... Though, knowing Nvidia, PhysX+G-sync= we can charge w/e we want!


So far according to Linus on youtube who is impartial a Gtx 780 overclocked will pulled ahead of a R9-290X overclocked


----------



## szeged

if i end up keeping 290x's over titans, only game ill miss physx in is borderlands 2


----------



## MeanBruce

Noob Question: What if ambient feeding the rig is for some reason unusually high, conditions go awry, internal temps move north and rise just a little more to 100C, the water in your loop boils? That would be an awesome looking effect thru clear tubing.









How will all the steam escape the water loop? Boom!

Just rolled out of bed, why am I considering only worst possible scenario? please forgive.

Amazing prices, looks like an R9 290 at $449 for me.


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Omg, speak of the devil.


Yeah lol. I'm really thinking of selling my 3 Titans and buying 4X R9 290X Quad-Fire.

I never liked Nvidia, and should have stayed with AMD.

Nvidia screwed alot of people badly with those prices on the Titan and the 780, and now the 780Ti.

I will remember Nvidia!


----------



## RobotDevil666

This is one impressive card I have to say , and best part of it is the pricing it will grab Nvidia by the balls for sure , and that's exactly what we need after that 1k Titan BS.
AMD sure stepped up and if i didn't recently buy two 780's I would give it some serious thought , one thing this whole situation reminds me of is GTX480 launch







way late to the game , beats competition and runs hot as hell , history likes to repeat itself.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Guys I know a lot of you are exited but in reality GTX 780 will be better for most people. Stock vs. Stock 290X wins. OC vs OC with stock coolers GTX 780 wins. It's also a lot quiter and uses a lot less power. It water a lot of things will get resolved but not everyone can go water.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> So far according to Linus on youtube who is impartial a Gtx 780 overclocked will pulled ahead of a R9-290X overclocked


This nice... I don't care what they said. I want break downs, numbers, video's, pictures, temp's, clocks... OVERclock it till it MEGAHURTZ. Also, saying anyone is impartial is lal's... Deep down inside everyone has a bias one way or another.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Yeah lol. I'm really thinking of selling my 3 Titans and buying 4X R9 290X Quad-Fire.
> 
> I never liked Nvidia, and should have stayed with AMD.
> 
> Nvidia screwed alot of people badly with those prices on the Titan and the 780, and now the 780Ti.
> 
> I will remember Nvidia!


I don't understand this mentality... If people got screwed, they shouldn't of spent the money... I just don't understand how NVidia screwed anyone. They didn't force anyone to buy anything, & if you can't afford 1,000$ gpu's you shouldn't be buying them. Just wait for maxwell, 290X is competing with 18 month old architecture.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *villain*
> 
> Interesting. The 780 beat the 290X in every single 1080p test once overclocked. But I wonder what the clocks were.


the More interesting thing here is that comparing a 290x to a 780 is like comaring crossfire to a titan.

Both get 100$ price difference.

Thing is the 290x crossfire destroy the titan with over 70-80% difference, while the 780 get about 10%


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys I know a lot of you are exited but in reality GTX 780 will be better for most people. Stock vs. Stock 290X wins. OC vs OC with stock coolers GTX 780 wins. It's also a lot quiter and uses a lot less power. It water a lot of things will get resolved but not everyone can go water.


I don't think 780 can win against 290x when both are OC'd. What clocks did Linus achieve? What clocks they really had during the tests?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> the More interesting thing here is that comparing a 290x to a 780 is like comaring crossfire to a titan.
> 
> Both get 100$ price difference.
> 
> Thing is the 290x crossfire destroy the titan with over 70-80% difference, while the 780 get about 10%


Exactly. CF 290x vs titan is a fair comparison.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pablogamer*


problem is that anand didn't "heat up" their 290x for 10 minutes for it to balance itself.

As you can see, their 290x running at a very high clock speed for both silent and uber.

PCPer, TPU and HCS have a good proof of that.

HCS


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Sorry to disappoint your fanboy rant, but without boost clock measurements, this test means one big 0, if you are not aware by now, the 290X throttle alot even on stock, bye.


Pardon me. I tried to keep it middle of the road. And I do like both companies, have used both companies in both low and high end spectruum of cards, and I love both cards, contrary to your opinion. I was just posting what was said on the video. So if that seems to get your panties in a bunch, I'm sorry (and I'm not Canadian).

If you bothered to watch the video, its explicitly stated that they are OC'd to the maximum that they could comfortably get. The 290X was on 'uber'-mode, and the GTX 780 was OC'd to the max on air (which considering they used a reference card, thats actually pretty low from my experience). You don't even have to know the boost clock measurement to take away the fact that they are trying to say the 290X has no headroom in terms of OCing, especially on air.

And if the 290X throttles on stock, reference air, then that means that AMD did fail at a certain part of the card: thermals. Not everyone will be putting a WB on this, and AMD is locking their partners into selling the reference cooler for (I believe) the next month, which means air users are SOL.

Take your fanboy rant elsewhere. I'm just here in search for facts. And basically this card is a beast, with spectacular price/performance, but with no headroom in terms of OCing. And that is something that many reviewers have come to terms with if you bothered to read them.

Grow up. OCN doesn't need crap like your post. Some users on this forum are pretty damn pitiful lately. Its kinda ruining this forum, and turning into a reddit/buildapc circlejerk.

*Edit: Made correction on AIB partners custom cooler/pcb time-frame. Sorry bout that!*


----------



## ASSSETS

Just checked LinusTechTips review and they have interesting approach in review with max overclock. In this case 780 is outperform 290x on FPS side. But I think AMD made overclocking easier for people that new to this. Also who knows how it will work under water as temp one of the limits in boost.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Pardon me. I tried to keep it middle of the road. And I do like both companies, have used both companies in both low and high end spectruum of cards, and I love both cards, contrary to your opinion. I was just posting what was said on the video. So if that seems to get your panties in a bunch, I'm sorry (and I'm not Canadian).
> 
> If you bothered to watch the video, its explicitly stated that they are OC'd to the maximum that they could comfortably get. The 290X was on 'uber'-mode, and the GTX 780 was OC'd to the max on air (which considering they used a reference card, thats actually pretty low from my experience). You don't even have to know the boost clock measurement to take away the fact that they are trying to say the 290X has no headroom in terms of OCing, especially on air.
> 
> And if the 290X throttles on stock, reference air, then that means that AMD did fail at a certain part of the card: thermals. Not everyone will be putting a WB on this, and AMD is locking their partners into selling the *reference cooler for (I believe) the next 5 months*, which means air users are SOL.
> 
> Take your fanboy rant elsewhere. I'm just here in search for facts. And basically this card is a beast, with spectacular price/performance, but with no headroom in terms of OCing. And that is something that many reviewers have come to terms with if you bothered to read them.
> 
> Grow up. OCN doesn't need crap like your post. Some users on this forum are pretty damn pitiful lately. Its kinda ruining this forum, and turning into a reddit/buildapc circlejerk.


I think I need a waaahmbulance. Does that mean no custom models for 5 months?


----------



## skupples

Blasphemer. 290X is the reincarnation of god in the form of a GPU. Perfect in all way's, best gpu for the rest of history. Nvidia is dead, no competition ever again.

(joke, this is how it goes, tick tock, tick tock, just wait until maxwell comes around with that 6,144 core 20nm chip)


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Exactly. CF 290x vs titan is a fair comparison.


Fair in terms of price? Sure.
Fair in terms of single gpu performance? No.


----------



## selk22

I purchased mine well aware of the temps and I think its going to be an excellent upgrade from my 580 1.5gb and once its under water down the road I excpect to see some great OC's


----------



## Biorganic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I will agree with blademaster. Amd just pulled a 4870


Agreed. Based on tech powerup's voltage response curve, I would have to say that these cards are begging for Water Cooling... DAT TEMPERATURE, especially while BOINCing would be too much for me.

I am very curious how well aftermarket air coolers will be able to handle this card. Hopefully the 290 will be a little less temp constrained.


----------



## keikei

Oh man! Best news all day. Let those prices drop baby! PC gamers rejoice!


----------



## altsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Blasphemer. 290X is the reincarnation of god in the form of a GPU. Perfect in all way's, best gpu for the rest of history. Nvidia is dead, no competition ever again.
> 
> (joke, this is how it goes, tick tock, tick tock, just wait until maxwell comes around with that 6,144 core 20nm chip)










Thats it.... That going to be sig'd


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Fair in terms of price? Sure.
> Fair in terms of single gpu performance? No.


My point is they shouldn't be compared. Titan is irrelevant @ that price. If you still insist to compare them make if fair. Price/performance is all that matters in economy. Always was and always will.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I think I need a waaahmbulance. Does that mean no custom models for 5 months?


Apparently I was wrong and thinking of an earlier leak of info. Apparently AMD changed it to be within a month, not 5 months. Sorry for the misinformation.


----------



## General123

Holy crap.. AMD drops a card that has the same performance of a Titan or better for half the price..well played AMD well played.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> My point is they shouldn't be compared. Titan is irrelevant @ that price. If you still insist to compare them make if fair. *Price/performance is all that matters in economy*. Always was and always will.


Uh...no, it's not all that matters. It might be all that matters to people who CARE about price/performance. Some people have a lot of money, and only care about performance, whether that be gpus or sportscars, same thing applies


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> My point is they shouldn't be compared. Titan is irrelevant @ that price. If you still insist to compare them make if fair. Price/performance is all that matters in economy. Always was and always will.


Partially agree.
If the economy was all about price/performance, than the 780 and especially the Titan would have flopped.
Now with the entrance of the 290x and 290 at intriguing prices, they just might become irrelevant or second choice if their prices remain as they are.


----------



## jtom320

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its exactly like Tahiti, which has nothing left lolz.


OC headroom is pretty clearly different then Tahiti.

When the 7970 came out the drivers didn't let you past 1125 but pretty much every review sample hit that. Which on it's own is a much higher overclock percentage wise then I've seen a single R9 hit.

I don't know why you'd be offended. Even if maxed out it's slower then GK110 the price makes it a win.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Uh...no, it's not all that matters. It might be all that matters to people who CARE about price/performance. Some people have a lot of money, and only care about performance, whether that be gpus or sportscars, same thing applies


Yeah sure, 0.01%, great









Most ppl can't/don't want to spend 1k for a gaming card. Those that spend 1k can get 2x 290x. Those that spend >2k$ are those you talk about, 0.01%. So irrelevant.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Partially agree.
> If the economy was all about price/performance, than the 780 and especially the Titan would have flopped.
> Now with the entrance of the 290x and 290 at intriguing prices, they just might become irrelevant or second choice if their prices remain as they are.


780 had a big advantage over 7970, so it was reasonable enough buying it. But now it's not anymore. So we agree.


----------



## xzamples

now i have buyers remorse because i bought a gtx 760 for $300


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> My point is they shouldn't be compared. Titan is irrelevant @ that price. If you still insist to compare them make if fair. Price/performance is all that matters in economy. Always was and always will.


Most people want to know which one is the fastest single gpu, in this case price is not the question. That's why, to make it a fair comparison, it should be single gpu vs single gpu and not dual gpu vs single gpu. That's nonsense.


----------



## selk22

Thats why I am wondering why everyone is freaking out about if it beats titan or the 780..

Guys you have a 550$ GPU that is at LEAST on par with a 780 at stock so really lets just rejoice here together...

After years of Green team I am back where I belong


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> As a 780 owner who paid $659, I'm pretty pissed that Nvidia is releasing the 780Ti, but I'm happy the 290X is a great performer and cheaper than the 780.
> 
> Great for competition.
> 
> *SCREW YOU NVIDIA*! Now I know what it feels like to get screwed the way Titan owners got screwed.


Hmm...you may want to change your profile pic with that remark Sir.


----------



## TilTheEndOfTime

The card runs at 95C at full load...that ridiculously hot...


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtom320*
> 
> OC headroom is pretty clearly different then Tahiti.
> 
> When the 7970 came out the drivers didn't let you past 1125 but pretty much every review sample hit that. Which on it's own is a much higher overclock percentage wise then I've seen a single R9 hit.
> 
> I don't know why you'd be offended. Even if maxed out it's slower then GK110 the price makes it a win.


Ek did 1200 easy peacy with stock volts. The other guy did 1400 on ln2 with no volts. Give us volts and this thing will fly


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yeah sure, 0.01%, great
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most ppl can't/don't want to spend 1k for a gaming card. Those that spend 1k can get 2x 290x. Those that spend >2k$ are those you talk about, 0.01%. So irrelevant.


Yes, and the other 99.99%, which buys anything except those $1K/500+ gaming cards, still buys both AMD and Nvidia. If the market was purely about price/performance, then AMD would be the top dog in the GPGPU business, not Nvidia.

So no, looking at the market, price/performance is actually a less relevant statistic than you think. However, it is still relevant for a considerable portion of people.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Most people want to know which one is the fastest single gpu, in this case price is not the question. That's why, to make it a fair comparison, it should be single gpu vs single gpu and not dual gpu vs single gpu. That's nonsense.


Yep, want to buy a card that maybe is 5% faster when both are OC'd for twice the price


----------



## jtom320

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Ek did 1200 easy peacy with stock volts. The other guy did 1400 on ln2 with no volts. Give us volts and this thing will fly


I don't know who EK is but I'd love a link.


----------



## spitty13

When is newegg going to put the other 290x brands for sale?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtom320*
> 
> I don't know who EK is but I'd love a link.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1436497/official-amd-r9-290x-290-owners-club/110#post_21047567


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Yes, and the other 99.99%, which buys anything except those $1K/500+ gaming cards, still buys both AMD and Nvidia. If the market was purely about price/performance, then AMD would be the top dog in the GPGPU business, not Nvidia.
> 
> So no, looking at the market, price/performance is actually a less relevant statistic than you think. However, it is still relevant for a considerable portion of people.


price/perf can be irrelevant only to ignorant and uneducated ppl, which is majority sadly. Most ppl buy NV b/c of their name.


----------



## jtom320

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1436497/official-amd-r9-290x-290-owners-club/110#post_21047567


Oh it's a tweet.

Under water I have no doubt it's possible. No review sample is anywhere close though.

At any rate it's still a way lower percentage then 7970s were hitting. Which was the original discussion. My reference 7970 at 925 hit 1300 fairly easily and could even be pushed higher.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtom320*
> 
> I don't know who EK is but I'd love a link.


EK makes waterblocks

And 1200mhz with stock volts is happiness in my ears. Really can't wait till we see some overvolting on water.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> now i have buyers remorse because i bought a gtx 760 for $300


why would you ever do that? you could have gotten a 670 for cheaper on the day the 760 launched.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Pablogamer*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> problem is that anand didn't "heat up" their 290x for 10 minutes for it to balance itself.
> 
> As you can see, their 290x running at a very high clock speed for both silent and uber.
> 
> PCPer, TPU and HCS have a good proof of that.
> 
> HCS
Click to expand...

Then that likely means that they didn't "heat up" their Titan either. It goes both ways... It is fine to compare the fact that Anand saw approx 1000MHz on their Titan and approx 1000MHz on their 290x.

Fact is, most (basically all but Tom's) reviews are showing the 290x in UBER mode to be about equal (0-5% faster) than Titan on average for 1600p and lower, but since both cards throttle we really won't get a good idea of stock (and of course OC'd) performance until real users get the cards under good cooling and compare to us Titan owners which have _long_ since done the same.

Speaking of _long_, I really don't get why anybody would feeling bad about paying the premium on Titan. I would happily pay double again if it meant *8 MONTHS* of smoothing gaming at quality settings much higher than my old 7970 CFX rig could handle. I must be the oddball here


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Also people should stop defending which ever GPU, it makes no sense. TITAN is born in Feb, it is consider older tech. If TITAN born at the same time as 290X, then you can debate.
> 
> If I see anyone like bashing between titan with 290x.. i just simply ignore them because it is irrelevant.
> 
> You all should be looking at 780 Ti not titan or even 780. 780/titan been reigning GPU king since Feb and until now most possible it is time for AMD turns to take the crown or something.
> 
> To be clear, 290X is competing against a 9 months old GPU from Nvidia. Should keep an eye on 780Ti instead even through it is under the same GK110 but pricing wise for best offer today right now. Many of us who bought 780/TITAN in the early days, it was the best GPU you can buy. How do you argue with that?


being old or not it still costs $1000 like it dud 8 months ago. So you sir have no point.

Weak.... Argument is weak.

Also lol @ Altar.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I though with Uber mode this card goes beyond 1GHz. Not that bad after all. Even a 1.2GHz OC is a good OC. 1.4GHz GTX780 is hard to be but how common is that for 24/7 operation.


----------



## VaporX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> and AMD is locking their partners into selling the reference cooler for (I believe) the next 5 months, which means air users are SOL.


This information is FALSE....


----------



## Luciferxy

is there any benchmark of the R9 290X vs 780, overclock vs overclock ?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> This information is FALSE....


?Ummm....





Maybe not 5 months, but he is not wrong.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yep, want to buy a card that maybe is 5% faster when both are OC'd for twice the price


I've never said that a Titan is a better value than the 290X. You really need to reread my previous posts.
If we want to know which one is *the fastest single gpu*, it should be a 290X vs a Titan, which mean price is not the question here.
If we want to know which one is *the better value*, sure 2x 290X should be compared to a Titan.

It's not that hard to understand.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luciferxy*
> 
> is there any benchmark of the R9 290X vs 780, overclock vs overclock ?


----------



## theilya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> The real fun will come if people realize their cards fry on air in a month if they are preoverclocked.
> 
> AMD probably returned to its favorite historical habit from CPUs, "Can't beat Intel, let's pre-overclock it and pretend nothing happens when they fry on stock in 5 months".
> 
> (In case you wonder how Intel got the reputation of 'stability'.)


most manufacturers have 2+ year warranty.


----------



## RagingCain

Hooray for competition! Might have to adjust my sig once I get a look at one or someone here goes all out.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

This doesn't surprise me at all. 290x seems to be so limited by that cheapo cooler AMD is using to make the card more affordable.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Color me impressed. Round 1 goes to R9-290x without a doubt. Now to see those custom models and high/max oc.


----------



## RagingCain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't surprise me at all. 290x seems to be so limited by that cheapo cooler AMD is using to make the card more affordable.


Always the case, that's why we watercool.

Except in Ivy/Haswell, that crap needs deliding too.


----------



## bmt22033

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> This information is FALSE....


People will definitely be able to buy R9 290x with aftermarket coolers within the next 30 days! Is that TRUE or FALSE?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> At least not now. I reckon custom 290 will go for $425-$475, be quiet and perform much better than the 780. Add on Mantle and TrueAudio (the latter of which will be very good if implemented, audio does wonders for immersion) and that will be better.
> 
> Most people are forgetting the flagship card costs a lot more than the one just under for not a huge perf difference so custom 290 will in all likelihood be equal to 780 classy for a lot less.


Still does not warrant an upgrade/side grade to a 290/290X from a 780. That was my whole point.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AJR1775*
> 
> Because it wouldn't be an upgrade? To me it seems like the comparison is pretty close to what the 7970 was to the 680. Seems some folks are harping on specific reviews, if you look at all of them some go one and others go another way. I think I'll wait until some unbiased OCN'ers who own both get their hands on them and do some comparisons.


Exactly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> $1289 in Australia until a few days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly if i owned a 780 i wouldn't even think about switching to a 290x, the difference should be small. I think anyone upgrading from a 670, 7970 or below should be looking no further than the 290x. It will be the best price to performance card amongst the big boys. Doing a side grade from 780 to 290x is a waste of time, but for any people that were looking at buying the 780 or the titan now, well i think 99% of them will/ should go the 290x.


I agree, if prices stay where they are, 290/290X are the cards to upgrade to if you are coming from 7970/680 or less. If Nvidia is smart, GTX780 $499 and Titan gets replaced by 780ti at $599 at the most!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys I know a lot of you are exited but in reality GTX 780 will be better for most people. Stock vs. Stock 290X wins. OC vs OC with stock coolers GTX 780 wins. It's also a lot quiter and uses a lot less power. It water a lot of things will get resolved but not everyone can go water.












Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Pardon me. I tried to keep it middle of the road. And I do like both companies, have used both companies in both low and high end spectruum of cards, and I love both cards, contrary to your opinion. I was just posting what was said on the video. So if that seems to get your panties in a bunch, I'm sorry (and I'm not Canadian).
> 
> If you bothered to watch the video, its explicitly stated that they are OC'd to the maximum that they could comfortably get. The 290X was on 'uber'-mode, and the GTX 780 was OC'd to the max on air (which considering they used a reference card, thats actually pretty low from my experience). You don't even have to know the boost clock measurement to take away the fact that they are trying to say the 290X has no headroom in terms of OCing, especially on air.
> 
> And if the 290X throttles on stock, reference air, then that means that AMD did fail at a certain part of the card: thermals. Not everyone will be putting a WB on this, and AMD is locking their partners into selling the reference cooler for (I believe) the next 5 months, which means air users are SOL.
> 
> Take your fanboy rant elsewhere. I'm just here in search for facts. And basically this card is a beast, with spectacular price/performance, but with no headroom in terms of OCing. And that is something that many reviewers have come to terms with if you bothered to read them.
> 
> Grow up. OCN doesn't need crap like your post. Some users on this forum are pretty damn pitiful lately. Its kinda ruining this forum, and turning into a reddit/buildapc circlejerk.


Your post was perfectly fine. For every person that sees through green glasses we have one that sees through red glasses. The red glasses saw the wrong information when they looked at your post.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> This information is FALSE....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> People will definitely be able to buy R9 290x with aftermarket coolers within the next 30 days! Is that TRUE or FALSE?


I second this. Please say >30 days


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I though with Uber mode this card goes beyond 1GHz. Not that bad after all. Even a 1.2GHz OC is a good OC. 1.4GHz GTX780 is hard to be but how common is that for 24/7 operation.


not common at all. you can reliably see 1180mhz-1293mhz for sustained use on a 780, which is damn fast btw.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> and AMD is locking their partners into selling the reference cooler for (I believe) the next 5 months, which means air users are SOL.
> 
> 
> 
> This information is FALSE....
Click to expand...

thanks for setting that straight.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luciferxy*
> 
> is there any benchmark of the R9 290X vs 780, overclock vs overclock ?


there are, but the 290X are all reference models and the cooler is insufficient for the chip. I'd like to see an DC2 or Windforce X3 vs similar gtx780 models.


----------



## 66racer

Being an nvidia fan, im so happy to see these benches and prices! I am first an enthusiast not an nvidia stock holder lol unless 780 prices drop, this may be my first amd/ati card since the x700 pro lol (first gpu)


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> This information is FALSE....


Yes, I know. I already clarified that in a later post.


----------



## Awsan

COME TO PAPA you little red card from hell

you say 94 degrees?


----------



## pokerapar88

Sexy sexy sexy. Not that i will buy one now as a single 7970 is enough for 1080p, but I really like where this is going. For an upgrade I will be looking into 20nm. Or maybe get a 290X when custom coolers are out and driver releases make it even better and prices drop.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> I've never said that a Titan is a better value than the 290X. You really need to reread my previous posts.
> If we want to know which one is *the fastest single gpu*, it should be a 290X vs a Titan, which mean price is not the question here.
> If we want to know which one is *the better value*, sure 2x 290X should be compared to a Titan.
> 
> It's not that hard to understand.


So, should we compare a boxing champion in super-heavy-weight category vs. a champion in feather-weight category?! Since category(price) doesn't matter those kind of matches should be organized
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RagingCain*
> 
> Always the case, that's why we watercool.
> 
> Except in Ivy/Haswell, that crap needs deliding too.


true, but I don't remember any card that so much *needed* better cooling.


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> COME TO PAPA you little red card from hell


I Lol'd


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser*
> 
> Then that likely means that *they didn't "heat up" their Titan either*. It goes both ways... It is fine to compare the fact that Anand saw approx 1000MHz on their Titan and approx 1000MHz on their 290x.


Why would they need to "heat up" their Titan. Titan can maintain a steady clock in between its core and boost because of Boost 2.0 and the cooling is better.


----------



## SKYMTL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser*
> 
> Then that likely means that they didn't "heat up" their Titan either. It goes both ways... It is fine to compare the fact that Anand saw approx 1000MHz on their Titan and approx 1000MHz on their 290x.
> 
> Fact is, most (basically all but Tom's) reviews are showing the 290x in UBER mode to be about equal (0-5% faster) than Titan on average for 1600p and lower, but since both cards throttle we really won't get a good idea of stock (and of course OC'd) performance until real users get the cards under good cooling and compare to us Titan owners which have _long_ since done the same.


So I need to clear some misinformation here.

We heated up ALL CARDS prior to each run. That includes the TITAN.

For the record, the TITAN never even reduced frequencies enough to hit its Base Clock. It was typically running at 883MHz which is actually above NVIDIA's stated Boost Clock.

The problem here is twofold. First and foremost, AMD's reference cooler really isn't all that great and that doesn't help things since, at 40% fan speed it can't properly cool things off and the core needs to thrttle back. At 55%, it is simply too loud. The other issue is PowerTune. Since the core is operating at such high thresholds, PT needs to slap clock speeds around like a lazy donkey. Custom coolers will help but they'll only mitigate the situation.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> This information is FALSE....


Correct. Folks need to listen to this guy. We'll likely be seeing custom cards next month.


----------



## amd655

As provided by TTL December will be when custom cooled cards arrive (UK)


----------



## sherlock

The Performance looks good, but the acoustics in uber mode sure look atrocious. Waiting for Aftermarket cooled models to be reviewed before I decided whether to sell this 780 or wait for 20nm.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> So, should we compare a boxing champion in super-heavy-weight category vs. a champion in feather-weight category?! Since category(price) doesn't matter those kind of matches should be organized


No, what he is saying that a lot of people are more interested in which gpu is the fastest. We are not talking about price at all at the moment in this equation.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> No, what he is saying that a lot of people are more interested in which gpu is the fastest. We are not talking about price at all at the moment.


Yes, but you cannot not talk about prices, that's what I'm saying


----------



## TheReciever

About 1/4 the people in this thread came to spit at Alatar, 1/2 came to represent who they belong to and the last 1/4 are the peeps just excited about some new toys to play with.

I think I may stay out of the news section for a while unless its Fricks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yes, but you cannot not talk about prices, that's what I'm saying


Hi!, Welcome to Overclock.net

You may run into groups of people that are in pursuit of performance. Odd, I know thats what the site's slogan is right? Not the pursuit of price/performance?

Point being, it shouldnt be surprising that members here disregard price and only pursue the best card possible. Look at the majority of members who purchased Titans? You think they are troubled by price of a card to achieve top performance? Im sorry, but your argument is null here.


----------



## SKYMTL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Color me impressed. Round 1 goes to R9-290x without a doubt. Now to see those custom models and high/max oc.


This isn't Round 1 though. TITAN has been around for 8 months. The GTX 780 for a bit less. This would be AMD showing up late to Round 2 but at a kick-ass price.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SKYMTL*
> 
> So I need to clear some misinformation here.
> 
> We heated up ALL CARDS prior to each run. That includes the TITAN.
> 
> For the record, the TITAN never even reduced frequencies enough to hit its Base Clock. It was typically running at 883MHz which is actually above NVIDIA's stated Boost Clock.
> 
> The problem here is twofold. First and foremost, AMD's reference cooler really isn't all that great and that doesn't help things since, at 40% fan speed it can't properly cool things off and the core needs to thrttle back. At 55%, it is simply too loud. The other issue is PowerTune. Since the core is operating at such high thresholds, PT needs to slap clock speeds around like a lazy donkey. Custom coolers will help but they'll only mitigate the situation.
> Correct. Folks need to listen to this guy. We'll likely be seeing custom cards next month.


Wait, so in your review, the Titan was running at a consistent 883Mhz, versus the stock 1000Mhz of the R9 290X? Feel free to correct me if I'm mis-assuming this from your statement. Because that is a considerable difference in clockspeeds, since both architectures seem to be running quite similar clock-for-clock.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Hmm...you may want to change your profile pic with that remark Sir.


Yeah he does. He also needs to find another hobby. I mean I guess him being upset is one thing, but Nvidia did not force his hand to buy the 780. Also, this card does not make the 780 any slower than it was before. It just makes the price/performance of the 780 even worse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RagingCain*
> 
> Always the case, that's why we watercool.
> 
> *Except in Ivy/Haswell, that crap needs deliding too*.


That made me lol.


----------



## maarten12100

Card does even better without thermal throttling @constant=1000MHz


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Yes, but you cannot not talk about prices, that's what I'm saying


Yes, you can. *All we are asking is which gpu is fastest at the moment*. As of right now, the Titan scrapes by ~5%(This might change once the 290x is under water). Is Titan's price justified with that little performance gain? Absolutely not. But we aren't trying to justify the product with the price tag. All that was discussed was which gpu was the fastest.
I totally understand what you are saying .I'm not trying to bicker with you, I hope you understand what I am saying.


----------



## JCPUser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JCPUser*
> 
> Then that likely means that *they didn't "heat up" their Titan either*. It goes both ways... It is fine to compare the fact that Anand saw approx 1000MHz on their Titan and approx 1000MHz on their 290x.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would they need to "heat up" their Titan. Titan can maintain a steady clock in between its core and boost because of Boost 2.0 and the cooling is better.
Click to expand...

Titan still won't hold 1000MHz at bone stock under most gaming loads. See below....
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SKYMTL*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JCPUser*
> 
> Then that likely means that they didn't "heat up" their Titan either. It goes both ways... It is fine to compare the fact that Anand saw approx 1000MHz on their Titan and approx 1000MHz on their 290x.
> 
> Fact is, most (basically all but Tom's) reviews are showing the 290x in UBER mode to be about equal (0-5% faster) than Titan on average for 1600p and lower, but since both cards throttle we really won't get a good idea of stock (and of course OC'd) performance until real users get the cards under good cooling and compare to us Titan owners which have _long_ since done the same.
> 
> 
> 
> So I need to clear some misinformation here.
> 
> We heated up ALL CARDS prior to each run. That includes the TITAN.
> 
> For the record, the TITAN never even reduced frequencies enough to hit its Base Clock. It was *typically running at 883MHz* which is actually above NVIDIA's stated Boost Clock.
> 
> The problem here is twofold. First and foremost, AMD's reference cooler really isn't all that great and that doesn't help things since, at 40% fan speed it can't properly cool things off and the core needs to thrttle back. At 55%, it is simply too loud. The other issue is PowerTune. Since the core is operating at such high thresholds, PT needs to slap clock speeds around like a lazy donkey. Custom coolers will help but they'll only mitigate the situation. .
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Just to be clear though -- my post was referring to Anand and I thought you were with Hardware Canucks?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Card does even better without thermal throttling @constant=1000MHz


Not only better, but ~*10%* better. Huge gain going from 850-900MHz to 1000MHz


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheReciever*
> 
> About 1/4 the people in this thread came to spit at Alatar, 1/2 came to represent who they belong to and the last 1/4 are the peeps just excited about some new toys to play with.
> 
> I think I may stay out of the news section for a while unless its Fricks


I am a little green leaning of late, but this card excites me! I want one to play with! Awesome card.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SKYMTL*
> 
> This isn't Round 1 though. TITAN has been around for 8 months. The GTX 780 for a bit less. This would be AMD showing up late to Round 2 but at a kick-ass price.


Yeah, this is definitely round 2 if not 3. Nvidia is already halfway through its 12-18 month life cycle. Still a great card at a great price though. Go AMD!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Card does even better without thermal throttling @constant=1000MHz


You ordered yours yet?


----------



## BigMack70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Yes, you can. All we are asking is which gpu is fastest at the moment. As of right now, the Titan scrapes by ~5%(This might change once the 290x is under water). Is Titan's price justified with that little performance gain? Absolutely not. But we aren't trying to justify the product with the price tag. All that was discussed was which gpu was the fastest.
> I totally understand what you are saying .I'm not trying to bicker with you, I hope you understand what I am saying.


Too many AMD fanboys bought into the ludicrous idea that the 290X was going to be like Titan+15% performance across the board. That may be the problem.

Pricing is the important thing now that it's finally come back down to earth - nobody but e-peen chasers and benchmarkers care about a 5% performance difference, but everyone cares about their wallets


----------



## VaporX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> People will definitely be able to buy R9 290x with aftermarket coolers within the next 30 days! Is that TRUE or FALSE?


Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Not only better, but ~*10%* better. Huge gain going from 850-900MHz to 1000MHz


What makes me wonder is how much power this card will use once made colder.
Efficiency decay beyond 85 degrees celsius is horrible.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> You ordered yours yet?


Well by the time they are available here in NL the 290 will also be available but I will definitely try to get my hands on one.
Finally getting my Red dreaded Titan








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


Glad to hear that will you also smack on a true Vapor Chamber just like my glorious 4870 2GB used to have (that card stomped)


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Not only better, but ~*10%* better. Huge gain going from 850-900MHz to 1000MHz


Reason why water will be so nice, nice solid clock speed.

Hope there is a way to disable to throttling feature in the future.

Hope you can take the voltage up to 1.4/1.38v instead of getting stuck at 1.3v for max.

Expecting the card to max out somewhere in the 1200-1300mhz area for Watercooling. And if so will take one hell of a GTX780 to beat it.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. *SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months*. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


But you stated the other guy was false.......


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SKYMTL*
> 
> This isn't Round 1 though. TITAN has been around for 8 months. The GTX 780 for a bit less. This would be AMD showing up late to Round 2 but at a kick-ass price.


Round one for GK110 vs hawaii-If we go back in time we'll never find a proper starting point. Before titan came to claim the crown it was 7970Ghz (after june 2012 with 12.7),between that and 600 launch it was the 680, before that plain 7970, before that 580 etc. Round 1 it is, waiting for custom stuff and air/water/extreme cooling.


----------



## 6steven9

Damn few months I can't wait that long Star Citizen's dog fighting module comes out in end of November early December I already spent $500 on that game and I still haven't been able to run the Hanger Module LOL crosses fingers hoping an aftermarket cooler sometime in the middle of next month or else 780 Ti it is..........


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> Too many AMD fanboys bought into the ludicrous idea that the 290X was going to be like Titan+15% performance across the board. That may be the problem.
> 
> Pricing is the important thing now that it's finally come back down to earth - nobody but e-peen chasers and benchmarkers care about a 5% performance difference, but everyone cares about their wallets


Absolutely. I'm having buyer's remorse at this moment with my Lightning. I am really considering selling it and buying a custom 290x.
I think if a company does that to you, then they succeeded in messing with the market for the better!


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> But you stated the other guy was false.......


Apparently gets his blood pumping that I made a mistake, yet he then goes and approximately corroborates my original timeline that I was under the assumption that is was gonna be. Oh, how I love PR reps.


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> because crossfire temps would be nuts with the triple fan design lol


Not to mention power requirements. Basically you would need a 1200/1500 watt PSU for triple Crossfire ... and I don't even thing Quad Crossfire would be possible for a system with just 1 power supply.


----------



## Tinman12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Reason why water will be so nice, nice solid clock speed.
> 
> Hope there is a way to disable to throttling feature in the future.
> 
> Hope you can take the voltage up to 1.4/1.38v instead of getting stuck at 1.3v for max.
> 
> Expecting the card to max out somewhere in the 1200-1300mhz area for Watercooling. And if so will take one hell of a GTX780 to beat it.


Looking at the reviews it's a good showing, but not enough to warrant 2 of them +new water blocks (prob a bigger radiator too) just to get ~15-20% over my wc690.

Unless there is wide berth to play with voltage and putting the 290x under water really opens it up.










Good to see some competition in the GPU market again.


----------



## chiggx

Better than Titan for $550? I am absolutely blown away!!!


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Glad to hear that will you also smack on a true Vapor Chamber just like my glorious 4870 2GB used to have (that card stomped)


I hope the 290/290X VaporX is better than the VaporX4890 I had. I had to RMA the card twice due to the cooler rattling like a cowbell and there was no voltage control. I really wanted to love that card, but ended up keeping it for one of the shortest periods I ever kept a graphics card.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> Absolutely. I'm having buyer's remorse at this moment with my Lightning. I am really considering selling it and buying a custom 290x.
> I think if a company does that to you, then they succeeded in messing with the market for the better!


Sorry, but I would have had buyers remorse from day one with the Lightning 780. Arguably one of the worse 780's released and yet the most expensive!


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chiggx*
> 
> Better than Titan for $550? I am absolutely blown away!!!


You will definitely be blown away when you need to crank the AC to stop your ice cream melting playing a game or two.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry, but I would have had buyers remorse from day one with the Lightning 780. Arguably one of the worse 780's released and yet the most expensive!


yeah, that was still the biggest flop this year. MSI could have held onto that thing lol. on topic, I'm very disappointed in AMD not making a decent reference cooler. they have to step it up on their next release.


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> You will definitely be blown away when you need to crank the AC to stop your ice cream melting playing a game or two.


Said the guy with a gtx 480 lawl


----------



## selk22

He even has/had two at one point.. Such a troll all the time man.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Reason why water will be so nice, nice solid clock speed.
> 
> Hope there is a way to disable to throttling feature in the future.
> 
> Hope you can take the voltage up to 1.4/1.38v instead of getting stuck at 1.3v for max.
> 
> Expecting the card to max out somewhere in the 1200-1300mhz area for Watercooling. And if so will take one hell of a GTX780 to beat it.


I'm sure ppl will find a way to unlock voltage. From what I've seen so far I expect 1200MHz to be enough to beat every 780.


----------



## anubis1127

Sigh..read through four reviews so far, no [email protected] numbers. Who cares about the FPS in crappy AAA titles, I want to see the PPD numbers.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> Said the guy with a gtx 480 lawl


That is what we call irony.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry, but I would have had buyers remorse from day one with the Lightning 780. Arguably one of the worse 780's released and yet the most expensive!










Bought it day one and still haven't used it, lol.







Probably going to sell it off.








People are still hitting 1350+mhz on air, so there's that.
I'm just wondering if I should just sell it and wait for custom 290x's? What do you think?


----------



## amd655

Not particularly, just sharing the love









Love to hard to handle?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> That is what we call irony.


Maybe you should check his trolling on this thread. This guy is just pure ...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436594/r9-290x-reviews/40#post_21048259


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I hope the 290/290X VaporX is better than the VaporX4890 I had. I had to RMA the card twice due to the cooler rattling like a cowbell and there was no voltage control. I really wanted to love that card, but ended up keeping it for one of the shortest periods I ever kept a graphics card.


That is really too bad never actually had a 4890 but back in the days it was the 4870 being the sweet spot.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd4870_vapor_x/16.htm


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Maybe you should check his trolling on this thread. This guy is just pure ...
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1436594/r9-290x-reviews/40#post_21048259


But you get so salty, how can anyone resist tearing that up?

Problem is, it is all truth lol.


----------



## sepheroth003

Color me impressed! I really didn't expect this to live up to the hype. I think I'll probably end up getting one since I can't SLI on my motherboard.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bought it day one and still haven't used it, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably going to sell it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People are still hitting 1350+mhz on air, so there's that.
> I'm just wondering if I should just sell it and wait for custom 290x's? What do you think?


I wonder how much you could even get for it? Maybe you can find a sucker.









1350 is decent yes, but the Classy was getting that months before and at a cheaper price. Anyway, if you could sell it and not take much of a hit I would say get a 290X.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> You will definitely be blown away when you need to crank the AC to stop your ice cream melting playing a game or two.


TDP isn't much higher then Titan

GPU temp does not equal the heat being dumped into your room


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> But you get so salty, how can anyone resist tearing that up?
> 
> Problem is, it is all truth lol.


You cant get so salty when you have owned a 480.


----------



## Johnny Rook

When I first bought my GTX 780 for $600 back in June, I already knew AMD was preparing something awesome to compete with nVIDIA.

I got the card that month because I was really needing an upgrade and I didn't want to loose months of smooth gaming waiting for a "super-gpu" to come. However, in the back of my mind, I had always the thought that I would sell the GTX 780 when the new, more powerful, maybe cheaper AMD was released in Q4 and that I would get one for myself.

The day has finnaly arrived! R9 290X is out, it performs great and it sells at $550! Awesome!









So..., why didn't I had the urge to sell the GTX 780 and go run at the store getting myself a R9 290X? Why? if the thought was in my mind for months?









It took me some time to unwrap my brain around the problem but, I finally came up to an answer: I didn't had the urge because I was disappointed with R9 290X.









Is true the card performs great, it beats the TITAN and everything but, hey, my GTX780 also beats the TITAN. And does beat the TITAN whisper silent, at cool 80ºC and a low 350W TDP.

I got even more disappointed when I start to compare what R9 290X does in "Uber Mode" directly to what my GTX 780 does overclocked: my GTX 780 out-performs the R9 290X!

I put my expectations too high, I suppose - shame on me, I'm old enough to know better -, and asked AMD more than what they can currently deliver.

That's too bad. But maybe, something good comes out of this and nVIDIA drops the GTX 780's price significantly, to the point where I can think about getting a second one!


----------



## selk22

I am just gunna keep this bad boy right by my feet this winter.. Thank you AMD for excellent price/performance and a feet heater until I can afford my Rads/block


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 290x on its way here, also have a titan arriving in a couple hours, ill leave it on stock air so i can test the 290x vs titan on air and water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone start an friendly overclocking thread 290/290x vs 780/titan like the valley thread or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im excited to see what this card can do in person, ive been waiting a long time lol.


please give us an idea on actual clock rates during longer gaming sessions. Reading the pcper article and the fact that at stock fan settings it can throttle over 100mhz within 5 to 10 minutes makes me weary of the rest of these reviews. If they are just running a bench for a few minutes and then stopping it's not giving a true representation of gaming performance on the reference fan.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> You cant get so salty when you have owned a 480.


But call others names and personally attack them when truth is dispersed?

Interesting view point you have.


----------



## NateST

Hm.. I don't plan on going under water, so looks like a no go for me ;/. Can't wait to see this in OCN's hands + under water. Wonder how fast it'll have to clock to beat some of the 1500mhz classies in benches/1400+ Titans.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Maybe you should check his trolling on this thread. This guy is just pure ...
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1436594/r9-290x-reviews/40#post_21048259


Oh yeah, I have noticed his posts before. Don't feed the troll.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> That is really too bad never actually had a 4890 but back in the days it was the 4870 being the sweet spot.
> http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd4870_vapor_x/16.htm


I had a Visiontek 4870 512MB and sold it to "upgrade" to the 4890 VaporX 1GB because the 4870 VaporX was so beast. Let's just say that was one of the nails in the coffin for me slowly drawing away from AMD and heading towards Nvidia.


----------



## CULLEN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> You will definitely be blown away when you need to crank the AC to stop your ice cream melting playing a game or two.


Big words coming from an GTX 480 user.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I wonder how much you could even get for it? Maybe you can find a sucker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1350 is decent yes, but the Classy was getting that months before and at a cheaper price. Anyway, if you could sell it and not take much of a hit I would say get a 290X.


I fell for the marketing hype, never again. Lol.
Ebay, I need you!


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> But call others names and personally attack them when truth is dispersed?
> 
> Interesting view point you have.


What truth lol? Because the gpu runs at 95C it means nothing lol. It use 30 watt more than the titan.

As i told you if you want something better just wait for the custom solution.Any person with experience on gpu market if he wants to stay on air he just get a cusotm solution. Its not that hard


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CULLEN*
> 
> Big words coming from an GTX 480 user.


When you have experience, it's hard to not tell the true picture.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> What truth lol? Because the gpu runs at 95C it means nothing lol. It use 30 watt more than the titan.
> 
> As i told you if you want something better just wait for the custom solution.Any person with experience on gpu market if he wants to stay on air he just get a cusotm solution. Its not that hard


5 month wait lolol good luck AMD.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I fell for the marketing hype, never again. Lol.
> Ebay, I need you!


Sorry dude. Glad your spirits are still high. Good luck. Someone I am sure is looking to SLI their Lightning, so you may not lose that much.


----------



## selk22

I don't know if you remember this but there was a time when it was still within recommended temps to be in the 90s..

On a crap cooler like this I am more worried about noise then the temps since the GPU seems to be able to handle the higher than average heat


----------



## senna89

good VGA but Nvidia is near to Maxwell


----------



## Atham

Amazing. I am sure going to get this GPU next summer for my brother's build. Might even do my first water cooling with this.

Saw Linus's review, the GTX 780 OC'd is still better than the 290X OC'd.


----------



## narmour

When will we see non-reference cards??

Whats the average timescale?


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> Amazing. I am sure going to get this GPU next summer for my brother's build. Might even do my first water cooling with this.


Buddy by next summer your gunna be chewing a whole new piece of gum


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> In any case people should admit this is a pre-overclocked card. By definition, obviously and without contest. Techpowerup made a review and tried to overclock them in the end, they ended up saying at a certain point *the performance was worse overclocked because the stock temp was already exactly before throttling*.


when since 1ghz is considered pre-overclock?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> good VGA but Nvidia is near to Maxwell


Nvidia is stuck on 28nm just like AMD till Early Q2 (expectation).
AMD has the smaller die with equal performance and AMD has Mantle so it seems like Nvidia is going to have a bad time.


----------



## TheReciever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 5 month wait lolol good luck AMD.


If you read the thread, it was corrected a while back that it was 1 month wait time.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> Sigh..read through four reviews so far, no [email protected] numbers. Who cares about the FPS in crappy AAA titles, I want to see the PPD numbers.


Sweclockers has some numbers, if I'm not mistaken.

Here:


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> Amazing. I am sure going to get this GPU next summer for my brother's build. Might even do my first water cooling with this.
> 
> Saw Linus's review, the GTX 780 OC'd is still better than the 290X OC'd.


We have no idea how did he OC his 290x. If he didn't increase the fan speed then in really it wasn't OC'd at all I would imagine.


----------



## amd655

Not sure if the 290x is really that good for the money, especially here in the UK....



780's are cheaper, have more features, run cooler and suck less power, they are also a proven card now, i am unsure which is really better.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> What truth lol? Because the gpu runs at 95C it means nothing lol. It use 30 watt more than the titan.
> 
> As i told you if you want something better just wait for the custom solution.Any person with experience on gpu market if he wants to stay on air he just get a cusotm solution. Its not that hard


Unless they want to crossfire and stay on air.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheReciever*
> 
> If you read the thread, it was corrected a while back that it was 1 month wait time.


No, he went back on his statement, usual PR.


----------



## selk22

If the 780 was cheaper thats what I would have bought, but the price is really good on the 290x and the 512bit for high res is just my version of future proof


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Not sure if the 290x is really that good for the money, especially here in the UK....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 780's are cheaper, have more features, run cooler and suck less power, they are also a proven card now, i am unsure which is really better.


Scan are crazy. Here, have a realistic price:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=56&subid=1752


----------



## Johnny Rook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> If the 780 was cheaper thats what I would have bought, but the price is really good on the *290x and the 512bit for high res is just my version of future proof*


Yeah, right! By the time 4K gets standard, R9 290X will be obsolete. The GTX 780 is an overall better product than the reference R9 290X. Let's see what AIB partners can do about the cooler...


----------



## TheReciever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> No, he went back on his statement, usual PR.


Really? Hmm since unfortunate. Still thats just for waiting on non reference? Would rather get aftermarket coolers for a reference card anyways


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Scan are crazy. Here, have a realistic price:
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=56&subid=1752


Some are definitely cheaper than 780 there, all out of stock or pre-order though :/

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-182-GW&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341

It is down to the person buying, but you can't really call the 780 bad for the money, it is roughly around the price of a good branded 290x yet cooler and quieter.


----------



## Kyoujin

I think this calls for a comment from Mr. M.Bison.




Good job, AMD. I am really glad to see them not bomb this release and I'm crossing my fingers that the non-reference cards will overclock well. More waiting on that I guess.

I wouldn't call myself an AMD fanboy but I am also glad that I get to throw these results into the faces of the NVidia fanboys. The past few weeks have exposed me to more of their nasty, arrogant personalities than I ever wanted to experience. Even an unaligned person like myself was considering taking the other side just to stand against them. Fanboyism is disgusting.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyoujin*
> 
> Fanboyism is disgusting.


Indeed.


----------



## cib24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Not sure if the 290x is really that good for the money, especially here in the UK....
> 
> 
> 
> 780's are cheaper, have more features, run cooler and suck less power, they are also a proven card now, i am unsure which is really better.


Ahem, check OCUK:



Also, everyone realize that this card is beating the Titan whilst throttling due to the poor reference cooler! Imagine when people like HIS and ASUS come out with their custom coolers! These things will run cooler (which also potentially means less power due to less heat) and will even be clocked higher! And once Arctic Cooling comes out with an Accelero Xtreme 290x version of the cooler like they did for the 7970 then this thing will really shine on air! Obviously, on water the overclocks could be even better.

Truly exciting times for an entry price of £440 inclusive of VAT.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry dude. Glad your spirits are still high. Good luck. Someone I am sure is looking to SLI their Lightning, so you may not lose that much.


In this type of hobby/passion, that's the only thing you can do. I will think twice about buying MSI though...








OT, I am worried about the OCing potential of Hawaii. I don't water-cool, so air cooling that bad boy would be a problem. Hopefully a custom model will have adequate cooling. DC2T perhaps?


----------



## Roaches

Great times to be a housefire enthusiast


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cib24*
> 
> Ahem, check OCUK:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, everyone realize that this card is beating the Titan whilst throttling due to the poor reference cooler! Imagine when people like HIS and ASUS come out with their custom coolers! These things will run cooler (which also potentially means less power due to less heat) and will even be clocked higher! And once Arctic Cooling comes out with an Accelero Xtreme 290x version of the cooler like they did for the 7970 then this thing will really shine on air! Obviously, on water the overclocks could be even better.
> 
> Truly exciting times for an entry price of £440 inclusive of VAT.


Yeah except 780's are cheaper on OCUK too lol.....

The stock cooler removes any value here, hopefully the custom cooled cards show the potential for 290x.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> But you stated the other guy was false.......
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently gets his blood pumping that I made a mistake, yet he then goes and approximately corroborates my original timeline that I was under the assumption that is was gonna be. Oh, how I love PR reps.
Click to expand...

Well, he can't go into specifics, and in any case, there are usaully several different overclocked models. Maybe after the first month only reference clocked and mildly overclocked cards with a custom cooler will be made available, while they pile up the best chips for then to release an overclocked and a super overclocked version later.


----------



## Ghoxt

"Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Sig worthy.."

Nvidia had an 8 month clear performance lead on anything AMD had at that time, single GPU. Fact.
Nvidia asked an extreme price premium for this lead. Fact
Titan owners blew the lid off the stock performance in Bios unlocks within 40 days and several more months for Voltage unlocks. Fact.

AMD now in end of October has stock and some OC performance that is in the "same performance window" as 780 and Titan. Fact
AMD has a clear "Winning" price point of the single GPU. FACT!!!
AMD has more tricks up it's sleeve pending to grow their performance with these cards just like 780 and Titan. (*Opinion*...not fact yet as it has not been delivered) Mantle / aftermarket cooling / drivers etc. but looks promising.

All of us will win on price if AMD competes going forward. (strong historical opinion)
This 8 months really was a lose / lose for all of us. (AMD owners performance. Nvidia owners price....Opinion)


----------



## Sunreeper

I wanted to go nvidia this year looks like I'll stay with amd though


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Do we have a review with 100% fan speed just to see indication of what this card can really do with better cooling?


----------



## Sir Amik Vase

Seems like an awesome card but im holding on to get 2x 780ti's, my reasoning is that the 290x has a crap stock cooler and that amd drivers are horrific for eyefinity and crossfire (great for single gpu though).


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> "Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Sig worthy.."
> 
> Nvidia had an 8 month clear performance lead on anything AMD had at that time, single GPU. Fact.
> Nvidia asked an extreme price premium for this lead. Fact
> Titan owners blew the lid off the stock performance in Bios unlocks within 40 days and several more months for Voltage unlocks. Fact.
> 
> AMD now in end of October has stock and some OC performance that is in the "same performance window" as 780 and Titan. Fact
> AMD has a clear "Winning" price point of the single GPU. FACT!!!
> AMD has more tricks up it's sleeve pending to grow their performance with these cards just like 780 and Titan. (*Opinion*...not fact yet as it has not been delivered) Mantle / aftermarket cooling / drivers etc. but looks promising.
> 
> All of us will win on price if AMD competes going forward. (strong historical opinion)
> This 8 months really was a lose / lose for all of us. (AMD owners performance. Nvidia owners price....Opinion)


8 Months later the Titan is still a ripoff at $1000...FACT.
In 8 Months 290x will be $500 or less.(Opinion)
NViDIA loves to rip off their Titan toting fanboys even with cards such as the GTX 770...FACT


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> "Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Sig worthy.."
> 
> All of us will win on price if AMD competes going forward. (strong historical opinion)


Agree.









I'm looking forward to seeing what the 290X can do with decent cooling and modded BIOS. W1zzard over at TPU seems to think these cards will do very well with ++vcore.









At the end of the day, competition is good for all of us here.







Prices on current tech will fall, and companies will be quicker to innovate. WIN/WIN.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Amik Vase*
> 
> Seems like an awesome card but im holding on to get 2x 780ti's, my reasoning is that the 290x has a crap stock cooler and that amd drivers are horrific for eyefinity and crossfire (great for single gpu though).


They are not. They are fixed with R9-290. Check reviews


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Amik Vase*
> 
> Seems like an awesome card but im holding on to get 2x 780ti's, my reasoning is that the 290x has a crap stock cooler and that amd drivers are horrific for eyefinity and crossfire (great for single gpu though).


Eyefinity CFx and 1 screen cfx (up to 4k)are fixed on the 290x...read some of the reviews.


----------



## cib24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Yeah except 780's are cheaper on OCUK too lol.....
> 
> The stock cooler removes any value here, hopefully the custom cooled cards show the potential for 290x.


Nah man, the 780s start at £480 on OCUK.



Anyway, I agree that the reference coolers are not a great buy unless you are looking to watercool or keep yourself warm in the winter on a budget. The performance is undeniable though. I can already imagine an HIS IceQ X2 or ASUS Matrix card coming out with stock speeds of 1100/1600. I would be happy with a 24/7 overclock of 1150/1650. The bandwidth would be insane for 1440p and above.


----------



## EliteReplay

Those of u that bought TITAN are SCREW Twice... first no one will give u more than $600 for a Titan now that AMD has a Card tha beat it
and AMD is giving u a cheaper card for the same performance or more....

If some one is willing to sell me a USED TITAN for $400 thats ok for me


----------



## Sir Amik Vase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> Eyefinity CFx and 1 screen cfx (up to 4k)are fixed on the 290x...read some of the reviews.


Even so the stock cooler is awful and if the third party coolers are not out by mid november then 780ti it is.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Amik Vase*
> 
> Seems like an awesome card but im holding on to get 2x 780ti's, my reasoning is that the 290x has a crap stock cooler and that amd drivers are horrific for eyefinity and crossfire (great for single gpu though).


I'm waiting to see what kind of non-ref 290x cards are available before making any decisions.


----------



## theilya

going to need them to make one for 290x ASAP


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Some are definitely cheaper than 780 there, all out of stock or pre-order though :/
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-182-GW&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341
> 
> It is down to the person buying, but you can't really call the 780 bad for the money, it is roughly around the price of a good branded 290x yet cooler and quieter.


For the Same price they both would be vary temping IMO.

Ether way a block is being slapped on it for me. The GTX780 and 290X max OC will probably be pretty close no doubt. For Nvidia having PhysX is nice, and has a nice set of driver features like the game profiles. SLI was a present ride, Nvidia is always pretty good about getting SLI performance working well after a few updates. Though the proprietary software that lock into their branding is kinda annoying.

Though for AMD, Really have enjoyed my 7950 so far. Last AMD GPU was a 4870 and loved it. Never really had a problem with drivers that wasn't any more difficult then I had with Nvidia. I personally like the look of the AMD CC better, For some reason I never really fully accepted the new Nvidia interface when they moved to it during the DX9 days. Card Performance is top notch, Never got to experience the old drivers but smoother then my gtx470's. Having all that VRAM is







. What is temping me more to the 290x or even 290 will be the price and CF performance. Plus Mantle and True Audio, and as someone that likes audio True Audio might be just as nice as PhysX. But still a gimmick overall, at least it work kill FPS. As someone that has plenty of Nvidia cards laying around I still have yet to learn what makes them so special.


----------



## provost

I have not read through the entire thread, but why were the benches not done for OC vs OC comparison? Is it because reviewers were plain lazy, or is it because 290x is already Oc'd through the programmable chip high enough that it leaves little room for OC headroom? Either way, benchmark comparison to a 800ish Titan is just as laughable, as the Titan's price point of $1k.
This is a win for AMD, based on price/performance, no matter how you cut it.
But, my question is who is it targeted at? Most hard core gamers with money burning a hole in their pocket, probably already blew their wad on some version of Nvidia's 700 series card, and are likely not to eat a loss by selling for comparable performance (in real comparisons not clowning around performance like some of the reviews). And, this is solely due to the fact that the card is 8 months late to market.
Or, is this card simply targeting hard core AMD gamers who would have held out for an AMD card for an upgrade, no matter what Nvidia offered over the last year or so?


----------



## Deadboy90

*Starts slow clap*


----------



## kingduqc

is 750watt with a i5 4670k cpu good for crossfire 290 por 290x?

all at stock or little OC


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> is 750watt with a i5 4670k cpu good for crossfire 290 por 290x?
> 
> all at stock or little OC


I wouldn't CF on 750w.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadboy90*
> 
> *Starts slow clap*












I will have my eye out for those $400 titans on ebay and $350 gtx 780


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> is 750watt with a i5 4670k cpu good for crossfire 290 por 290x?
> 
> *all at stock or little OC*


yes, definitely. But with high OC's I would imagine it can consume even 950W since a highly OC'd system with 2x7970 consumes ~850W


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will have my eye out for those $400 titans on ebay and $350 gtx 780


thats gonna be a while lol. im guessing $750 or so for a while will be the norm for titans.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> thats gonna be a while lol. im guessing $750 or so for a while will be the norm for titans.


Yes, especially with little/no stock of the R9s.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Those of u that bought TITAN are SCREW Twice... first no one will give u more than $600 for a Titan now that AMD has a Card tha beat it
> and AMD is giving u a cheaper card for the same performance or more....
> 
> If some one is willing to sell me a USED TITAN for $400 thats ok for me


Well if you buy a 290X now AMD will be screwing you with their next top card. You will be lucky to get $200 when their next gen comes out.

And if you buy that next top card, AMD will SCREW YOU AGAIN with their next top card.

(see how ridiculous you look?) - And yeah, its a valid argument considering its been 8 months since Nvidia had ANY competition.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> thats gonna be a while lol. im guessing $750 or so for a while will be the norm for titans.


Before now some could be had for $750 on ebay.

Not that they are inferior, it should be cheaper.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Yes, especially with little/no stock of the R9s.


true, newegg needs to get some more in stock, i wanna test crossfire also lol.

ill probably sell one of my titans for $750 in the next couple days to pay for another 290x if i end up really liking them lol.


----------



## SKYMTL

Man oh man, the posts in this thread come up faster than I can read them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Wait, so in your review, the Titan was running at a consistent 883Mhz, versus the stock 1000Mhz of the R9 290X? Feel free to correct me if I'm mis-assuming this from your statement. Because that is a considerable difference in clockspeeds, since both architectures seem to be running quite similar clock-for-clock.


The engines were running at their default levels. For both cards, that means clock speeds were variable based on thermal load, power requirements, etc. Remember, there is no one "clock speed" these days.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Card does even better without thermal throttling @constant=1000MHz


I believe HardOCP may have run the tests prior to AMD's indication that Uber Mode requires that fan speeds be RESET within CCC. If they aren't there will be literally no difference between Uber and Silent. The results above look exactly like ours before making this discovery.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JCPUser*
> 
> Thanks for the info. Just to be clear though -- my post was referring to Anand and I thought you were with Hardware Canucks?


I am with HWC. My apologies, I thought you were referring to our review along with PCPer's.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Round one for GK110 vs hawaii-If we go back in time we'll never find a proper starting point. Before titan came to claim the crown it was 7970Ghz (after june 2012 with 12.7),between that and 600 launch it was the 680, before that plain 7970, before that 580 etc. Round 1 it is, waiting for custom stuff and air/water/extreme cooling.


This is the one and only round then as the next round will see Hawaii vs Maxwell.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> Saw Linus's review, the GTX 780 OC'd is still better than the 290X OC'd.


That's an overly nebulous statement and proves exactly why doing OC versus OC comparisons typically gives the wrong impression. Every card OCs to a different level. The only way to properly test under the proper conditions would be to determine the average OCs attained by a larger sample size than ONE and go from there.


----------



## sepheroth003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> true, newegg needs to get some more in stock, i wanna test crossfire also lol.
> 
> ill probably sell one of my titans for $750 in the next couple days to pay for another 290x if i end up really liking them lol.


Ya I am very tempted to sell my 670 and buy an R9, I just don't want to sell my 670 and not get an R9 for a month or two while they try to ramp up production.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Well if you buy a 290X now AMD will be screwing you with their next top card. You will be lucky to get $200 when their next gen comes out.
> 
> And if you buy that next top card, AMD will SCREW YOU AGAIN with their next top card.
> 
> (see how ridiculous you look?) - And yeah, its a valid argument considering its been 8 months since Nvidia had ANY competition.


Are you serious?! So oyu would rather buy a Titan @ $999 and lose $500 off resale in 8 months than buy $549 290x and lose $250 off resale? Do oyu know how to do math???


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Are you serious?! So oyu would rather buy a Titan @ $999 and lose $500 off resale in 8 months than buy $549 290x and lose $250 off resale? Do oyu know how to do math???


The percentage(almost) its the same so its okay


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Are you serious?! So you would rather buy a Titan @ $999 and lose $500 off resale in 8 months than buy $549 290x and lose $250 off resale? Do oyu know how to do math???


Its 50% either way, which is my point - I guess all a Titan owner can say is, welcome to the party that was started 8 months ago!


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theilya*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> going to need them to make one for 290x ASAP


Gonna need something bigger than that... Arctic Accelero Extreme/Hybrid


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Its 50% either way, which is my point - I guess all a Titan owner can say is, welcome to the party that was started 8 months ago!


I'd rather lose 50% of 500 than 50% of $1000. Are you guys really that bad at math?! With the money lost on Titan you could have 2 290x


----------



## Sir Beregond

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Its 50% either way, which is my point - I guess all a Titan owner can say is, welcome to the party that was started 8 months ago!


That's also jsut how technology works. Something always replaces the top dog within that time. It doesn't matter what side.


----------



## scorpscarx

I just emailed Arctic asking if the 7970 Accellero Extreme will fit on this, if we need a new kit, or what... It would be so awesome if I could just swap it from my current card.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> I just emailed Arctic asking if the 7970 Accellero Extreme will fit on this, if we need a new kit, or what... It would be so awesome if I could just swap it from my current card.


That is what I was thinking. I am sure they will have the same mounting holes at least.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> I just emailed Arctic asking if the 7970 Accellero Extreme will fit on this, if we need a new kit, or what... It would be so awesome if I could just swap it from my current card.


It won't, look at the PCB - the core is angled on the 7970 and straight on the 290X. Arctic will probably make a custom cooler for it anyway though.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> I just emailed Arctic asking if the 7970 Accellero Extreme will fit on this, if we need a new kit, or what... It would be so awesome if I could just swap it from my current card.


Tahiti and Hawaii dies are different shapes and sizes. 7970's dies are squares rotated 45* to a diamond, and tahitis are rectangles perpendicular to the board. The mounting holes might line up, but theres no way the block will have proper coverage unless you get some kind of spacer or adapter


----------



## KnightVII

290x fan 100%





Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


----------



## bencher

One thing is certain, this is AMD's fermi. Only difference is it is cheaper than the competition.


----------



## kpriess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Its 50% either way, which is my point - I guess all a Titan owner can say is, welcome to the party that was started 8 months ago!


It's 50% either way...... Great answer, give this man his prize..

Not everybody can pay the ticket to "the party" as you could..


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> 290x fan 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


Headphone users, rip at 100%.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> 290x fan 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


rofl wow


----------



## ZealotKi11er

There are 2 types of people. Those that want a card like Titan which is powerful and reasonable power consumption with nice cooling and quite. Also people what want a card that its pushed to the limits a stock cooler can handle. I remember GTX480 was so much rewarding under wanter compare to the less hot, lower power HD 5870.


----------



## scorpscarx

Derp, thanks guys.

I should have picked up on that considering I literally just reapplied some compound on mine.

On the maybe side, the diamond is larger than the actual die, when used on a 6970 at least.... by quite a bit, so if the physical placement lines up it may well cover it regardless.

Anyways, back to the drawing boards.


----------



## gregoryH

Some of the R9 290 benches


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## amd655

The real thing here is it's power consumption, most of the time a card with such beefy requirements usually make a great overclocking card, the 480/580 were no exceptions, absolutely stomped Radeon 5k/6k at overclocking.

R.I.P stock coolers, i seem to be adding custom coolers to everything these days unless it comes custom from factory.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> 290x fan 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


Wow

My 7950 with stock ref cooler @ 1100mhz was quieter then 55% on that and still didn't go past 83c

Watercooling


----------



## cib24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> I wouldn't CF on 750w.


727w is still under 750


----------



## MeanBruce

If you threw everything at it, what would Titan performance look like at 95C?

Or is Titan not "designed" to run that hot?


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> rofl wow


Ok 100% is not feasible. They engineered such a wonderful card only to pair it with that atrocious thing.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> ...Or, is this card simply targeting hard core AMD gamers who would have held out for an AMD card for an upgrade, no matter what Nvidia offered over the last year or so?


Dunno but they are sold out across the board, morning of the launch.

In my case I was in the market for a new card late summer. I looked seriously at a 780, but I knew that AMD was cooking something up. My twin 5850's are hampered only by VRAM, so I could wait to see what was going to happen.

And it's new silicon. Even with an open mind I don't see the 780Ti being much more compelling than the 290x in price or performance, so there you go. And from all the reviews, there is a tremendous amount of headroom in Hawaii to play with after you're sick of the stock cooler.

Finally, don't underestimate the BF4 connection. There are a lot of fans out there (not me, but okay) that want the very best silicon for that game, and the 290x would be it.


----------



## tpi2007

Just a little history to put things in context:




Quote:


> Finally, with this data in hand we went to NVIDIA to ask about the longevity of their cards at these temperatures, as seeing the GTX 480 hitting 94C sustained in a game left us worried. In response NVIDIA told us that they have done significant testing of the cards at high temperatures to validate their longevity, and their models predict a lifetime of years even at temperatures approaching 105C (the throttle point for GF100). Furthermore as they note they have shipped other cards that run roughly this hot such as the GTX 295, and those cards have held up just fine.


94º C load temperature, 64.1 dB load noise level, the same concerns about longevity, the same solution: an AXP-style cooler that brings temperatures down drastically (mine works at 61º C at load and the fan speed never ramps up from the default 44%), or water cooling.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Ok 100% is not feasible. They engineered such a wonderful card only to pair it with that atrocious thing.


The seeming fact that AMD spent $0 or R&D on a better cooler would help explain the lower than expected $550 price tag. AMD should have designed a better cooler and charged $600 for reference. It wouldn't have changed all of the praise its getting right now for matching Titan at 55% of Titan's price.

I have 7950s, and there's no way I'd buy a reference 290X if I was going to stick with air cooling. Having a hair dryer at full blast under the desk during a gaming session isn't exactly enjoyable, headphones on or not.

Also, 95C will not cause a card to fail long-term. It's the constant thermal expansion and contraction of going from 40C to 95C that is going to cause crack propagation and eventually failure when it hits some solder. (This is why baking works but is a temporary fix only).


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kpriess*
> 
> It's 50% either way...... Great answer, give this man his prize..
> 
> Not everybody can pay the ticket to "the party" as you could..


And once again my point..

You get the same performance for a lower price as time goes by.

Yay!

Guess what? Same thing will happen next year and the year after that. If AMD popped out a card that matched what Nvidia comes out with next gen, you can bet they are going to charge out the ass for it. Enjoying that performance for 8 months? Yeah worth a premium.


----------



## Phishy714

double post


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Very nice. I might just sell my Titans and pick up two 290X. Might make a little money on the side as well.

Anyone have any idea what different fan speeds sound like?


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoryH*
> 
> Some of the R9 290 benches
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Good find. You should make a news post for it









290 is looking very solid, I hope that custom cards+coolers come out within a month, at the very least for the 290.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Just a little history to put things in context:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 94º C load temperature, 64.1 dB load noise level, the same concerns about longevity, the same solution: an AXP-style cooler that brings temperatures down drastically (mine works at 61.º at load and the fan speed never ramps up from the default 44%), or water cooling.


Its exactly thats.

HD 5870 vs GTX480
GTX 780 vs 290X

We all know what card OC preferred under water.


----------



## Someguy316

I really want to see the performance of these cards on a non reference cooler. Would those cards not have the throttling issue since they would be able to reach their target temperature easier? Also, what effect would raising the target temp do on those cards?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


I hope the Vapor-X series doesn't come out late this time; I remember the 7950 one being out later than the other ones.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Its exactly thats.
> 
> HD 5870 vs GTX480
> GTX 780 vs 290X
> 
> We all know what card OC preferred under water.


LOL even on air.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> The seeming fact that AMD spent $0 or R&D on a better cooler would help explain the lower than expected $550 price tag. AMD should have designed a better cooler and charged $600 for reference. It wouldn't have changed all of the praise its getting right now for matching Titan at 55% of Titan's price.
> 
> I have 7950s, and there's no way I'd buy a reference 290X if I was going to stick with air cooling. Having a hair dryer at full blast under the desk during a gaming session isn't exactly enjoyable, headphones on or not.
> 
> Also, 95C will not cause a card to fail long-term. It's the constant thermal expansion and contraction of going from 40C to 95C that is going to cause crack propagation and eventually failure when it hits some solder. (This is why baking works but is a temporary fix only).


on guru3d AMD stated the card can run at 95C her entire life with no issue at all
and in fact they stated that is better for the card to run that hot... dont know why

go to guru3d and check the conclusion of the review.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

It seems that no one in these reviews really bothered with OC'ing, which is really disappointing.

This card run only @750-850MHz on average when it was under load for enough time in quiet mode.

All they had to do is set fan speed to 100% (put headphones if it really bothers them) and test all games. That would insure that the core speed always stays @ 1000MHz.

Then increase core speed as far as possible and test again.

Now we have no clue how these cards scale with OC'ing. Waiting for OCN results.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> on guru3d AMD stated the card can run at 95C her entire life with no issue at all
> and in fact they stated that *is better for the card to run that hot*... dont know why
> 
> go to guru3d and check the conclusion of the review.


----------



## dantoddd

ordering one ASAP


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*


Well i will have to agree with this post.

Nothing likes more heat, except maybe between the sheets.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> ordering one ASAP


sold out everywhere, good luck lol.


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> It seems that no one in these reviews really bothered with OC'ing, which is really disappointing.
> 
> This card run only @750-850MHz on average when it was under load for enough time in quiet mode.
> 
> All they had to do is set fan speed to 100% (put headphones if it really bothers them) and test all games. That would insure that the core speed always stays @ 1000MHz.
> 
> Then increase core speed as far as possible and test again.
> 
> Now we have no clue how these cards scale with OC'ing. Waiting for OCN results.


Someone posted a LinusTechTips video and it has the 290X with their OC vs a 780 OC. Not much more info on that though.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sepheroth003*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> is 750watt with a i5 4670k cpu good for crossfire 290 por 290x?
> 
> all at stock or little OC
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't CF on 750w.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
Click to expand...

of course you are entitled to your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that









but the anadtech bench doesn't account for the differences in rigs, PSU eff since its measured from the wall and such. (727*.90= 645 watts)
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,4.html
Quote:


> Our test system is based on a power hungry six-core Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition Sandy Bridge-E based setup on the X79 chipset platform. This setup is overclocked to 4.60 GHz on all cores.
> Power consumption *AMD Radeon R9-290X 2-way Crossfire*
> 
> System in IDLE = 130W
> System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 661W
> Difference (GPU load) = 531W
> Add average IDLE wattage ~20W
> Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = *~ 551 Watts*
> 
> Here is Guru3D's power supply recommendation:
> 
> AMD Radeon R9 290X - On your average system the card requires you to have a 550~600 Watt power supply unit.
> AMD Radeon R9 290X Crossfire - On your average system the cards require you to have *a 800 Watt power supply* unit as minimum.


661 watts is a bit outside the efficiency curve of 20% - 80% (661/750=88%) its doable, depends on the PSU . .as usual.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> Someone posted a LinusTechTips video and it has the 290X with their OC vs a 780 OC. Not much more info on that though.


yes and TBH using linus as some authority for overclocking makes me want to go in the corner and quietly sob for my green team . .


----------



## Sheyster

From the TPU (W1zzard) review:
Quote:


> AMD's stock cooler is completely overwhelmed with the heat output of the card during voltage tweaking, though. Even at 100%, it could barely keep the card from overheating and was noisier than any cooler I've ever experienced. My neighbors actually complained, asking why I used power tools that late at night.












These cards need water cooling, badly.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Well if you buy a 290X now AMD will be screwing you with their next top card. You will be lucky to get $200 when their next gen comes out.
> 
> And if you buy that next top card, AMD will SCREW YOU AGAIN with their next top card.
> 
> (see how ridiculous you look?) - And yeah, its a valid argument considering its been 8 months since Nvidia had ANY competition.


What kind of logic is that?

GTX 660 has GTX 580 performance too...

This year's ultra-high end is next gen's mid-range , see HD7950/HD7970 downgraded to high-midrange (R9-280X) or HD 5870/HD6950/HD6970 vs HD7870

If you don't want to be screwed too badly go buy a midrange card when it's on sale. At worst you lose $50-100 over the life of the card.

----

I'm waiting for watercooled / good aftermarket coolers with vapor chambers and heatpipes to actually get a hold of what the real performance is. Like Fermi these seem thermally limited.


----------



## dookiebot

Appreciated the techspot review that included xfire 7950's in the benchmarks. And congrats to AMD on the 290x performance vs price point.

My thoughts are now on the upcoming 290 and it's price point and overclock performance. If I can get 290x performance for $100 cheaper I might not be so disciplined on waiting to upgrade.


----------



## roleki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> 290x fan 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


Eh, reference. Wait'll custom/aftermarket, should get some of that under control.

Still, holy crap, 100% seems like it's powerful enough to rock the card out of its slot.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> Someone posted a LinusTechTips video and it has the 290X with their OC vs a 780 OC. Not much more info on that though.


He could increase clock speed all he wanted, if he kept 55% fan speed the card wasn't working even @1000MHz probably b/c it was hitting 94c


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> on guru3d AMD stated the card can run at 95C her entire life with no issue at all
> and in fact they stated that *is better for the card to run that hot*... dont know why
> 
> go to guru3d and check the conclusion of the review.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't see how it's better for a card to run hotter, only a few materials have funky properties and I highly doubt any of them are usable or making their way to GPU tech any time soon.

If anything, running cooler decreases resistance and so improves efficiency.


----------



## Authie

If it's throttling due to high temps and is still managing to beat a Titan... imagine what this beast could do on water, yet alone with a decent aftermarket cooler 

Interesting!


----------



## Kand

It's Fermi all over again!


----------



## Taint3dBulge

So has there be any info/leaks on when he custom pcb/coolers are coming out? Cant find any info yet.....


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I agree. I don't see how it's better for a card to run hotter, only a few materials have funky properties and I highly doubt any of them are usable or making their way to GPU tech any time soon.
> 
> If anything, running cooler decreases resistance and so improves efficiency.


Heat also raises temps on soldering etc, this is why a lot of cards after dying work after a good bake in the oven, over time it damages things.


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> He could increase clock speed all he wanted, if he kept 55% fan speed the card wasn't working even @1000MHz probably b/c it was hitting 94c


I guess I misread the original question but it's still nice to see the card vs an actual overclocked 780; this will be really interesting once the custom coolers show up.


----------



## szeged

we need reference cards to be in stock first before we can get non reference


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> It's Fermi all over again!


Except Fermi was a bit colder, and did not throttle.


----------



## RoarTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmt22033*
> 
> Are there any non-reference coolers that are a blower-style design? I'm thinking about going CF but I was under the impression that most aftermarket coolers disperse more heat into the case instead of venting out the back?


HIS is the only manufacturer I can think of who uses non-reference blower coolers. HIS IceQ was a nice premium blower design used on last generation cards. Due to increased size they were hard to crossfire except on certain motherboards with adequate spacing. Unfortunately, HIS seems to have been replaced this cooler with the new IceQ X2 on their new R9 series releases. The IceQ X2 is a common case dump design.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*


from GURU3D review

Again AMD On This: We have designed the 290 Series to operate at a steady state of 95C. By running at 95C, we are both maximizing the performance and minimizing the acoustics of the product. Be assured, that 95C is a perfectly safe temperature at which the GPU can operate for its entire life. There is no technical reason to reduce the target temperature below 95C.


----------



## amd655

Case dump designs work best for me, i have a high air flow case, the RV02B... it removes heat fast.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Authie*
> 
> If it's throttling due to high temps and is still managing to beat a Titan... imagine of what this beast could do on water, yet alone a decent aftermarket cooler
> 
> Interesting!


It's going as low as 570 MHz.


----------



## nitrubbb

Why all the temp. concerns? I welcome a radiator in my room. Seriously


----------



## anticommon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> 290x fan 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


I still don't understand why companies don't just make the reference cards with a dual fan open design. If people end up wanting blower type then they can get that as an option, but for the majority of people I'd say they would prefer and get much more use out of a well designed dual fan design.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> Why all the temp. concerns? I welcome a radiator in my room. Seriously


Because not everyone lives where it is cold.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> from GURU3D review
> 
> Again AMD On This: We have designed the 290 Series to operate at a steady state of 95C. By running at 95C, we are both maximizing the performance and minimizing the acoustics of the product. Be assured, that 95C is a perfectly safe temperature at which the GPU can operate for its entire life. There is no technical reason to reduce the target temperature below 95C.










I see now, what they meant was "You may as well leave max temp at 95C as all you're doing is increasing noise / losing performance if you limit it". Makes sense.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> on guru3d AMD stated the card can run at 95C her entire life with no issue at all
> and in fact they stated that is better for the card to run that hot... dont know why
> 
> go to guru3d and check the conclusion of the review.


Probably for the reason I stated. A 95C constant you've got hot running components, but they're not experience thermal expansion and contract that comes with cycling from 40C to 95C back to 40C and so on. At some point all of this expansion and contraction will cause material failure somewhere. This failure will spread (in the form of a micro-crack) until it hits a critical component required for operation, causing failure there, and ultimately failure of the entire card. Running at a constant 95C avoids this entirely.

I'm not materials science major, but I did pay attention in school.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> from GURU3D review
> 
> Again AMD On This: We have designed the 290 Series to operate at a steady state of 95C. By running at 95C, we are both maximizing the performance and minimizing the acoustics of the product. Be assured, that 95C is a perfectly safe temperature at which the GPU can operate for its entire life. There is no technical reason to reduce the target temperature below 95C.


AMD says its good for the card to run at 95c...yeah they arent trying to make people buy more cards or anything.


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> on guru3d AMD stated the card can run at 95C her entire life with no issue at all
> and in fact they stated *that is better for the card to run that hot*... dont know why
> 
> go to guru3d and check the conclusion of the review.


There must be something lost in translation. With that said, high temps don't mean much as long as the cooling solution doesn't create hearing loss.







My 4870 Vaporx cards weren't too bad in the audible department but they were loud nonetheless. Ran a X-fire set for a while there. Love how the heat brutally scarred my heat pipes, they still run 4 years later! Broke one out for a nostalgia pic.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> Sigh..read through four reviews so far, no [email protected] numbers. Who cares about the FPS in crappy AAA titles, I want to see the PPD numbers.


fahbench in anandtech and others.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/amd-radeon-r9-290x-im-test/8/#gpucomputing-fahbench

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/18

basically 2x R9-270X
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


Will DirectFETs be used , but with more power phases? or low RDS(on) mosfets?

Also will Hynix RAM (or Elpida 60F/70F) be used?


----------



## Thunderclap

From another forum:
Quote:


> *By the way this is an R290 I've flashed with R290X BIOS, works a tread, but shaders not unlocked, but can now hit 1220 core and 6600 RAM on the regular R290 as well. At these speeds this also obliverates Titan. Incredible value!*


If this is true and all R9 290 (non X) are able to do it, well then... I think that things are really getting to look seriously messed up for Nvidia...


----------



## youra6

Anyone here knows if the 290 will require a different waterblock? I can't remember if the 290 uses the same PCB and layout as the 290x.


----------



## Authie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Case dump designs work best for me, i have a high air flow case, the RV02B... it removes heat fast.


I have the same case as you, during benches it struggles to remove the hot air with my 7990 malta card. With a conservative oc during gaming it's fine though.


----------



## eternal7trance

When does the 290 even come out?


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Kand*
> 
> It's Fermi all over again!
> 
> 
> 
> Except Fermi was a bit colder, and did not throttle.
Click to expand...

A bit colder as in 1º C colder.

Again, for those that missed it:
Quote:


> Finally, with this data in hand we went to NVIDIA to ask about the longevity of their cards at these temperatures, as seeing the GTX 480 hitting 94C sustained in a game left us worried. In response NVIDIA told us that they have done significant testing of the cards at high temperatures to validate their longevity, and their models predict a lifetime of years even at temperatures approaching 105C (the throttle point for GF100). Furthermore as they note they have shipped other cards that run roughly this hot such as the GTX 295, and those cards have held up just fine.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/nvidia-s-geforce-gtx-480-and-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/19

Just like Nvidia did back in 2010, AMD is just assuring people there isn't a problem, the cards will surely last the warranty period at the very least.

How many people with broken reference GTX 480's have you heard about ?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

290X will less core will be a crazy good card. Probably 5% slow but thats already in GTX780 performance level. Imagen the price. $450.

As far as temps my GTX470 Reference hit 93C with Auto fan profile.

After OC with 1.087v which was the MAX for GTX470 the card would hit 100C @ 100%. Used it about 2 months with no problems.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> we need reference cards to be in stock first before we can get non reference


the 280x came out with both.. prolly cause its just a 7970


----------



## coupe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I still don't understand why companies don't just make the reference cards with a dual fan open design. If people end up wanting blower type then they can get that as an option, but for the majority of people I'd say they would prefer and get much more use out of a well designed dual fan design.
> Because not everyone lives where it is cold.


It comes down to a cost issue. One of the reasons why the r9-290x can be $100 cheaper than a 780 is because AMD didn't opt for a high tier cooling solution like Nvidia did.


----------



## geoxile

AMD should have just forgone the reference cards and launched with custom coolers. I was considering buying a 290x at launch but all those temps and all the talk about thermal throttling is big a no-no for me. It also seems like the reference cooler isn't something you can zip-tie dual 120mm fans to either. It's some sort of weird tunnel design.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I really don't understand this type of Idiotcy. Titan came out over 8 month's ago. Yes the price was ridiculous but it was the best option at the time. The gtx 780 came out 5 month's ago. The 290x being anything under 10% faster then the 780 would have been a disaster on their part being so late to the party. Nearly 2 years since their last gpu. Kudos to Amd for delivering. But saying they are spanking Nvidia in any way is just ridiculous. Nvidia has been rolling in the profits with the competition being absent for so long. Amd just finally responded with a great card. Hopefully we can finally get some price drops from Nvidia since they finally have competition.


yeah absolutely. if AMD would have delivered a card with 10%+ performance of the GTX 780 and the same power usage, temperature, noise, and overclockability then we could praise it. It's not like AMD did something special here. just a card which already throttles at stock clocks, runs loud and hot. The out of the box performance is pretty good and seems to fool many reviewers (save LinusTechTips), and the performance for the money it costs it the only good thing I can find so far.


----------



## amd655

My 480 has been under custom air for nearly all of it's life, died not long a go, i can't bake it, but i may attempt to in the future, i reckon heat got the better of it (solder)

Been through many fan alterations to perfect it too...

See Spoiler content.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











Best performance was a pair of little Noctua's.





Even though a better cooler will do much better, the PCB will still heat up just like before, my 480's always had that problem, the core and VRM's were fine, but the PCB would really heat up.

Water is the best for a reason.

We will see similar things to come with 290x.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I really don't understand this type of Idiotcy. Titan came out over 8 month's ago. Yes the price was ridiculous but it was the best option at the time. The gtx 780 came out 5 month's ago. The 290x being anything under 10% faster then the 780 would have been a disaster on their part being so late to the party. Nearly 2 years since their last gpu. Kudos to Amd for delivering. But saying they are spanking Nvidia in any way is just ridiculous. Nvidia has been rolling in the profits with the competition being absent for so long. Amd just finally responded with a great card. Hopefully we can finally get some price drops from Nvidia since they finally have competition.


The difference in price is so great for similar performance that Nvidia would have to make pretty massive price cuts, which sends out the message "OK, yes we charged way more than necessary" and could possibly annoy a lot of the people who bought said cards. It's amusing because it forces Nvidia to climb off their pedestal, and they (unless I'm missing something) like high and steady prices.


----------



## BigTree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I still don't understand why companies don't just make the reference cards with a dual fan open design. If people end up wanting blower type then they can get that as an option, but for the majority of people I'd say they would prefer and get much more use out of a well designed dual fan design.
> Because not everyone lives where it is cold.


They have a major advantage is that they exhaust all their heat outside the case.(Imagine blowing so much hot air in the inner case with inproper airflow).Their disadvantage is that they don't cool as well and are noisier than custom coolers.


----------



## theilya

curious....

to those who ordered from newegg around release time have it shipped yet?
mine is still "packaging"


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Just a little history to put things in context:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, with this data in hand we went to NVIDIA to ask about the longevity of their cards at these temperatures, as seeing the GTX 480 hitting 94C sustained in a game left us worried. In response NVIDIA told us that they have done significant testing of the cards at high temperatures to validate their longevity, and their models predict a lifetime of years even at temperatures approaching 105C (the throttle point for GF100). Furthermore as they note they have shipped other cards that run roughly this hot such as the GTX 295, and those cards have held up just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 94º C load temperature, 64.1 dB load noise level, the same concerns about longevity, the same solution: an AXP-style cooler that brings temperatures down drastically (mine works at 61º C at load and the fan speed never ramps up from the default 44%), or water cooling.
Click to expand...

not to forget gaming power consumption 100w higher than it's rival, even more than the 5970:




AMD hasn't topped the gtx 480 just yet.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> The seeming fact that AMD spent $0 or R&D on a better cooler would help explain the lower than expected $550 price tag. AMD should have designed a better cooler and charged $600 for reference. It wouldn't have changed all of the praise its getting right now for matching Titan at 55% of Titan's price.
> 
> I have 7950s, and there's no way I'd buy a reference 290X if I was going to stick with air cooling. Having a hair dryer at full blast under the desk during a gaming session isn't exactly enjoyable, headphones on or not.


100% agree. it's a shame they didn't come up with a proper cooling solution. at this price point $50-$75 more for a more polished product isn't asking much. I like the performance and probably prefer AMD, but if the gtx780 drops $50-$150 it is still a much better buy than a 290X, even if it gets beat by a few fps at stock. I can foresee nvidia might be made to sweat if AMD positions the R9 290 (non X) right. at $450 with some sort of third party cooler on launch day it will put crazy pressure on every nvidia gpu above the gtx760 (because they are all overpriced







)


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jason387*
> 
> So far according to Linus on youtube who is impartial a Gtx 780 overclocked will pulled ahead of a R9-290X overclocked


Take Linus' results with a grain of salt. For one thing his friend 'Slick' did the testing, and he is a complete amateur. For another thing, the OC'd 780 in question was a Lightning and is in NO way shape or form comparable with a reference 290X. Also, the 290X runs hot to begin with. It WILL require aftermarket cooling or even better, watercooling, to perform to its full potential.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coupe*
> 
> It comes down to a cost issue. One of the reasons why the r9-290x can be $100 cheaper than a 780 is because AMD didn't opt for a high tier cooling solution like Nvidia did.


Stock cooler really is just to get reviews. Much rather they drop saving to us. Because Nvidia used more expensive cooler even aftermarket cooler will cost similar to stock gtx780. Aftermarket cooler for 290x will also cost similar. This way you get about the same aftermarket cooler in 290x for cheaper then you do in gtx780. 100 cheaper means after water block it's same price as stock gtx780. I call that win in my book.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, with this data in hand we went to NVIDIA to ask about the longevity of their cards at these temperatures, as seeing the GTX 480 hitting 94C sustained in a game left us worried. In response NVIDIA told us that they have done significant testing of the cards at high temperatures to validate their longevity, and their models predict a lifetime of years even at temperatures approaching 105C (the throttle point for GF100). Furthermore as they note they have shipped other cards that run roughly this hot such as the GTX 295, and those cards have held up just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/nvidia-s-geforce-gtx-480-and-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/19
> 
> Just like Nvidia did back in 2010, AMD is just assuring people there isn't a problem, the cards will surely last the warranty period at the very least.
> 
> *How many people with broken reference GTX 480's have you heard about ?*
Click to expand...

this is true, however a thought i just had (and amazingly didn't die of loneliness







)

would not the larger chip (40nm vs 28nm) favor the 480 in terms of longevity?

really that's a rhetorical question because only time will truly tell.


----------



## eternal7trance

This thread got hostile fast over a piece of plastic


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> My 480 has been under custom air for nearly all of it's life, died not long a go, i can't bake it, but i may attempt to in the future, i reckon heat got the better of it (solder)
> 
> Been through many fan alterations to perfect it too...
> 
> See Spoiler content.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best performance was a pair of little Noctua's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though a better cooler will do much better, the PCB will still heat up just like before, my 480's always had that problem, the core and VRM's were fine, but the PCB would really heat up.
> 
> Water is the best for a reason.
> 
> We will see similar things to come with 290x.


For those who missed it, and to do with heat and longevity.


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> The difference in price is so great for similar performance that Nvidia would have to make pretty massive price cuts, which sends out the message "OK, yes we charged way more than necessary" and could possibly annoy a lot of the people who bought said cards. It's amusing because it forces Nvidia to climb off their pedestal, and they (unless I'm missing something) like high and steady prices.


These other guys clearly missed where I said " its price was ridiculous." But some people do have a hard time reading. I agree it was outrageous what they were charging and continue to charge for Titan. When I bought my gtx690 is was a fair price being $1k. It had similar performance to 680sli on a single card. The fact that they continue to have it priced at $1k is rather odd considering the 7990 can be had for under $700. Nvidia clearly gouged the consumer because of lack of competition. Its sad but unfortunately that's business. I just wish Amd would have stepped in with the 290x 6 month's ago and forced Nvidia's hand then.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> Take Linus' results with a grain of salt. For one thing his friend 'Slick' did the testing, and he is a complete amateur. For another thing, the OC'd 780 in question was a Lightning and is in NO way shape or form comparable with a reference 290X. Also, the 290X runs hot to begin with. It WILL require aftermarket cooling or even better, watercooling, to perform to its full potential.


Did he say he used 780 lightning?


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> Dunno but they are sold out across the board, morning of the launch.
> 
> In my case I was in the market for a new card late summer. I looked seriously at a 780, but I knew that AMD was cooking something up. My twin 5850's are hampered only by VRAM, so I could wait to see what was going to happen.
> 
> And it's new silicon. Even with an open mind I don't see the 780Ti being much more compelling than the 290x in price or performance, so there you go. And from all the reviews, there is a tremendous amount of headroom in Hawaii to play with after you're sick of the stock cooler.
> 
> Finally, don't underestimate the BF4 connection. There are a lot of fans out there (not me, but okay) that want the very best silicon for that game, and the 290x would be it.


Fair enough, and I agree with you that 290x is a great p/p play.









But. most of the people looking at these charts for performance comparison purposes don't understand how AMD turbo works and how it interacts with bios. Just go to any 780/780classy or Titan thread, and you will find out why these performance numbers that the reviewers have put up for comparative purposes are a joke. Either the reviewers don't have a clue themselves, or they are just playing dumb.

AMD has probably set the default turbo base clock pretty high with more voltage through the programmable chip on the pcb, but this also limits the ultimate OC potential. Boost 2.0 may have lower base clock, but with kboost you can lock it higher, provided no temp throttle. Its not hard to push both card's oc to max settings on stock bios, as both will temp throttle without water cooling so you can at least get an idea of max oc potential.


----------



## Clovertail100

Volcanic.

Looks like it'll beat overclocked 780's and go head to head with overclocked Titans. I'd like to see a 1200MHz comparison between Hawaii and Titan, just to see how close they really are.

AMD might not make a buttload of money from Hawaii, but it's still a very smart release. They're going to create a lot of unhappy Titan owners. This card gives Titan a run for it's money at nearly half the cost, making 290X _Crossfire_ Titan's priceerformance competition.


----------



## szeged

the good thing about the 290x is if your house ever burns down the 290x will be fine since its used to those temps.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> the good thing about the 290x is if your house ever burns down the 290x will be fine since its used to those temps.


----------



## Clukos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> the good thing about the 290x is if your house ever burns down the 290x will be fine since its used to those temps.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> yeah absolutely. if AMD would have delivered a card with 10%+ performance of the GTX 780 and the same power usage, temperature, noise, and overclockability then we could praise it. It's not like AMD did something special here. just a card which already throttles at stock clocks, runs loud and hot. The out of the box performance is pretty good and seems to fool many reviewers (save LinusTechTips), and the performance for the money it costs it the only good thing I can find so far.


Get over yourself. This same old tired argument keeps popping up here in defense of the Titan. It does not matter if the Titan is 8 months old, 1 year old, or 5 years old... it is the BEST Nvidia is capable of putting out right now. 20nm is nowhere near final yet, and Nvidia simply can NOT put out anything better on 28nm at the moment. This is the best Nvidia can put out as of right NOW, that is all that matters. It doesn't matter how old the Titan or 780 are... they're still the best Nvidia can put out right now, and AMD did better.

AMD was able to beat Nvidia on the same process node. THAT is what is amazing. Stop downplaying what AMD has done here by saying the other cards are older. So what? Nvidia can't do any better until 20nm is out next year.

Another thing is the fact that the pricing on the 290X is where it should be. Nvidia have been WAY too greedy with Titan and even the 780. As you can see with the pricing by AMD, they can make plenty of profit at nearly HALF the cost of the Titan, with the same performance.

I don't understand how some of you can sit there and hug Nvidia's leg like it's your daddy when it's been slapping you around with pricing for quite a while now. Who cares if it's Nvidia or AMD? THIS is what we need. If you want to continue being able to afford GPUs to play your favorite games, we NEED competition like this. If AMD hadn't slapped Nvidia around with this launch and the pricing, we wouldn't see any movement in pricing.

The fact is, AMD has one upped Nvidia. That's all there is to it. Regardless of timing, they have beaten Nvidia on the same process node on a SMALLER die and they've done it at nearly HALF the price. How can you say it is underwhelming without sounding like a complete fanboy?


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> Take Linus' results with a grain of salt. For one thing his friend 'Slick' did the testing, and he is a complete amateur.


So he's an amateur doing the benching for one of the biggest PC-oriented youtube channels for a card as important as 290X, and you're implying the results were skewed? Now I'll take THAT with a grain of salt








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> For another thing, the OC'd 780 in question was a Lightning


Are you sure about this?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> Get over yourself. This same old tired argument keeps popping up here in defense of the Titan. It does not matter if the Titan is 8 months old, 1 year old, or 5 years old... it is the BEST Nvidia is capable of putting out right now. 20nm is nowhere near final yet, and Nvidia simply can NOT put out anything better on 28nm at the moment. This is the best Nvidia can put out as of right NOW, that is all that matters. It doesn't matter how old the Titan or 780 are... they're still the best Nvidia can put out right now, and AMD did better.
> 
> AMD was able to beat Nvidia on the same process node. THAT is what is amazing. Stop downplaying what AMD has done here by saying the other cards are older. So what? Nvidia can't do any better until 20nm is out next year.
> 
> Another thing is the fact that the pricing on the 290X is where it should be. Nvidia have been WAY too greedy with Titan and even the 780. As you can see with the pricing by AMD, they can make plenty of profit at nearly HALF the cost of the Titan, with the same performance.
> 
> I don't understand how some of you can sit there and hug Nvidia's leg like it's your daddy when it's been slapping you around with pricing for quite a while now. Who cares if it's Nvidia or AMD? THIS is what we need. If you want to continue being able to afford GPUs to play your favorite games, we NEED competition like this. If AMD hadn't slapped Nvidia around with this launch and the pricing, we wouldn't see any movement in pricing.
> 
> The fact is, AMD has one upped Nvidia. That's all there is to it. Regardless of timing, they have beaten Nvidia on the same process node on a SMALLER die and they've done it at nearly HALF the price. How can you say it is underwhelming without sounding like a complete fanboy?


Nvidia can make something like a 2880c Kepler that has stock clock ~ 1100MHz and Boots 1200MHz+. It will probably use a lot of power but they can.


----------



## grunion

You guys complaining about the cooler, funny.

The bombproof PCB/components more than make up for the cooler.
Like El noted earlier, Matrix P guts not needed for extreme overclcocks.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> the good thing about the 290x is if your house ever burns down the 290x will be fine since its used to those temps.


Do you not understand what TDP is? The 290X may operate at higher temps due to its fan curve, but it does NOT output more heat than a Titan or 780X. The GPU simply has a higher operating temp. If you owned one and didn't like that, there's a fancy little tool called CCC that you can increase the fan speed with... OR you can act like an enthusiast on an enthusiast grade card, and water cool it!


----------



## jincuteguy

So I guess Nvidia won't do a price cut for the 780 since the 780 still pull ahead over the 290x. If they did a price cut, it would have happened right now already.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

As a dual Titan owner I can say that I feel pretty good about the fact that I bought my cards in February 2013 and that by the look of things they will still be among the fastest video cards on the market in October of 2014 as well. I mean its not often that you get cards that don't immediately get beaten by the next generation. That $2k bought me flagship performance at the ultra high end for nearly two years...


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> So he's an amateur doing the benching for one of the biggest PC-oriented youtube channels for a card as important as 290X, and you're implying the results were skewed? Now I'll take THAT with a grain of salt


Tell me @ what clocks did 290x actually run in his review? From all we know it is bellow 1000MHz if he didn't increase the fan speed


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grunion*
> 
> You guys complaining about the cooler, funny.
> 
> The bombproof PCB/components more than make up for the cooler.
> Like El noted earlier, Matrix P guts not needed for extreme overclcocks.


so, you guys have any 290X coming that don't run at 95c all the time?


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> So he's an amateur doing the benching for one of the biggest PC-oriented youtube channels for a card as important as 290X, and you're implying the results were skewed? Now I'll take THAT with a grain of salt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure about this?


So you're saying that because he is simply a PART of one of the only 3 main youtube PC tech channels that he is automatically a professional benchmarker? Are you not aware that they are an UNBOXING channel? That is how they started, and what they made their bones with... not benchmarking. They very rarely had any benchmarking videos. I've been a subscriber to their channel since they started, and 95% of their videos are unboxings. Linus nor Slick have any college education whatsoever, nor any PC training whatsoever. Linus is intelligent and self-taught, but 'Slick' was simply his camera man, and filled the role of installing games and running FRAPS, besides his recent role as the forum admin, which he has completely failed, as the server he was running was offline for weeks at a time.

Am I sure about the Lightning? I wasn't there, but judging by what I've read, yes.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Lol @ all the people in this thread trying to dog the 290X and stay on Nvidia's crotch. Get over it guys, AMD just put a beat down on Nvidia, this is another 4870, and a large portion of you didn't think it was going to happen.

People on this forum swore it wouldn't beat Titan or the 780, they swore it wouldn't be less than $650, some even saying $750 *IF* it matched Titan. A lot of you saying that it wasn't possible with GCN at 28nm.....

Yet here we are, a $550 card that puts a beating to Nvidia! Oh, and to all the people that just care about "raw performance", you can buy two of these for the cost of a Titan......there is your performance.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mookster*
> 
> Volcanic.
> 
> Looks like it'll beat overclocked 780's and go head to head with overclocked Titans. I'd like to see a 1200MHz comparison between Hawaii and Titan, just to see how close they really are.
> 
> AMD might not make a buttload of money from Hawaii, but it's still a very smart release. They're going to create a lot of unhappy Titan owners. This card gives Titan a run for it's money at nearly half the cost, making 290X _Crossfire_ Titan's priceerformance competition.


I don't remember being mad when the 7970 came out and killed my 580's? What I think is interesting is that Titan was released in Feb and in Oct AMD is finally releasing a card that just matches its performance. Sure the price is a blockbuster but Titan's $1k cost was the premium you had to pay to enjoy this sort of performance for the last 8 months, that is all...


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> this is true, however a thought i just had (and amazingly didn't die of loneliness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> would not the larger chip (40nm vs 28nm) favor the 480 in terms of longevity?
> 
> really that's a rhetorical question because only time will truly tell.


I guess that's right, only time will tell, maybe things will even out given that 40nm was more or less consensually regarded as being problematic and yields were never that high, whereas 28nm seems to be going pretty well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> My 480 has been under custom air for nearly all of it's life, died not long a go, i can't bake it, but i may attempt to in the future, i reckon heat got the better of it (solder)
> 
> Been through many fan alterations to perfect it too...
> 
> See Spoiler content.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best performance was a pair of little Noctua's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though a better cooler will do much better, the PCB will still heat up just like before, my 480's always had that problem, the core and VRM's were fine, but the PCB would really heat up.
> 
> Water is the best for a reason.
> 
> We will see similar things to come with 290x.
> 
> 
> 
> For those who missed it, and to do with heat and longevity.
Click to expand...

Truth be told you put a custom cooler on it but then your case exhaust was a bit weird. Those fans at the front were intake or exhaust ? Your case doesn't have exhaust at the top (except for the PSU's fan).


----------



## Thunderclap

Now this seems like an interesting option in place of the stock reference cooler:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL

Get it, slap two high performance 140s on it and you're pretty much set for some pretty damn high overclocking on air.


----------



## Osjur

I'll just leave this here:
Quote:


> I've now got 290 Pro beating X, Titan and 780 HOF (1310MHz) in all the benchmarks I ran with Asus BIOS. EPIC Card!


Posted by Gibbo (OCUK Staff Member)









If Pro version comes with 400-450$ pricetag then nVidia will literally **** their pants.

/me thinks R9 290PRO + waterblock x 2 =


----------



## aznofazns

Just pulled the trigger on the Sapphire 290X to replace my dual unlocked HD6950's, one of which stopped working months ago. Funny how a single 290X will be roughly 3 times as fast as the unlocked HD6950. Hopefully my dated CPU won't bottleneck it after I get a 2nd one some time in the future.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Lol @ all the people in this thready trying to dog the 290X and stay on Nvidia's crotch. Get over it guys, AMD just put a beat down on Nvidia, this is another 4870, and a large portion of you didn't think it was going to happen.
> 
> People on this forum swore it wouldn't beat Titan or the 780, they swore it wouldn't be less than $650, some even saying $750 *IF* it matched Titan. A lot of you saying that it wasn't possible with GCN at 28nm.....
> 
> Yet here we are, a $550 card that puts a beating to Nvidia! Oh, and to all the people that just care about "raw performance", you can buy two of these for the cost of a Titan......there is your performance.


This is not the 4870, This is actually the *GTX 480 in Red, sold at Red prices*. It certainly does live up to the name of *Volcanic* Island.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I guess that's right, only time will tell, maybe things will even out given that 40nm was more or less consensually regarded as being problematic and yields were never that high, whereas 28nm seems to be going pretty well.
> Truth be told you put a custom cooler on it but then your case exhaust was a bit weird. Those fans at the front were intake or exhaust ? Your case doesn't have exhaust at the top (except for the PSU's fan).


The case moves air from bottom to top, the fans on the bottom were always intake with the top exhaust.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> AMD should have just forgone the reference cards and launched with custom coolers. I was considering buying a 290x at launch but all those temps and all the talk about thermal throttling is big a no-no for me. It also seems like the reference cooler isn't something you can zip-tie dual 120mm fans to either. It's some sort of weird tunnel design.


You mean a standard radial blower like GTX TITAN , GTX 580, GTX 480, HD 7970, HD 6970, HD 5870, etc...

for $100 you can grab a Arctic Accelero Xtreme or a fullcover waterblock... so it's not bad


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Now this seems like an interesting option in place of the stock reference cooler:
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL
> 
> Get it, slap two high performance 140s on it and you're pretty much set for some pretty damn high overclocking on air.


Meh, put 2 Deltas on it. Will still be quieter than the stock cooler


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.







Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Now this seems like an interesting option in place of the stock reference cooler:
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL
> 
> Get it, slap two high performance 140s on it and you're pretty much set for some pretty damn high overclocking on air.


Oh my GOD.

I may just get one of these


----------



## RX7-2nr

I remember reading that AMD did not plan on releasing non-reference models of the 290X (similar to Titan). Has there been anymore info about this? These cards are begging for a new cooler.


----------



## Zcypot

and I was so close to buying that one Nvidia a couple months ago. I am glad I waited to see how AMD cards would be. Performance is so close that only real difference is the price.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


I know deep inside you want to test those 2 x 290x under water.

Personally i feel if water can bring more to a card the more worth it is and regarding for the water gear you speed good money in.


----------



## clubber_lang

I can't read through almost a 100 page thread on this thing......But........

Just from looking at the benchmarks , the prices of this new AMD line up........They just kicked the living crap out of Nvidia!

I'll bet I'm one of the most inexperienced guys on this board......but when I start to read tests from Hilbert and Wizard on this 290X........I let there graphs and so forth do the talking.

How could you say anything negative about a $550.00 card coming in and matching and sometimes beating a $1000.00 card?

Some of you guys get so offended by this , you reach for straws and pull things from your butt that make no sense. To caught up in the moment and don't let common sense play a role before you type something out.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Yeah, these should be a lot of fun to play with under water...


----------



## Sir Beregond

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> the good thing about the 290x is if your house ever burns down the 290x will be fine since its used to those temps.


Haha.









Can't wait to see one of these under water.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> I remember reading that AMD did not plan on releasing non-reference models of the 290X (similar to Titan). Has there been anymore info about this? These cards are begging for a new cooler.


Indeed they do! AMD would be deranged to not permit non reference solutions.


----------



## fateswarm

Maybe it runs hot because the imbeciles they put to assemble it didn't add thermal paste.


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> Sigh..read through four reviews so far, no [email protected] numbers. Who cares about the FPS in crappy AAA titles, I want to see the PPD numbers.


Given the added wattage and heat of the R9 290X over a 7970 ... it would have to put up some SERIOUS numbers to even compete. Given that it is only slightly better than the 7970 architectural wise, I really doubt that it will be "all that" for Folding.

Actually, if you look on our Power Rangers thread, I did manage to find "something" about Folding on the R9 290X ... and while I don't totally understand how the numbers can reflect what was reported, it shows that [email protected] computational power is actually WORSE than a 7970.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


This.









Now you sir, are a REAL enthusiast, not blinded by wearing some red or green colored glasses all the time. I'm glad at least some people don't try and deny the truth in every way possible just to defend their favorite team (doesn't matter green or red).


----------



## amd655

Custom GPU roundup [UK only]

TITAN:
http://cdn.overclock.net/1/1b/200x200px-ZC-1b163659_W60S2RY.jpeg

290x:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183

DAT sexy 290x cooler is making me slobber and my wallet cry.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> This.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you sir, are a REAL enthusiast, not blinded by wearing some red or green colored glasses all the time. I'm glad at least some people don't try and deny the truth in every way possible just to defend their favorite team (doesn't matter green or red).


Eh, I still love my Titans though...


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I guess that's right, only time will tell, maybe things will even out given that 40nm was more or less consensually regarded as being problematic and yields were never that high, whereas 28nm seems to be going pretty well.
> Truth be told you put a custom cooler on it but then your case exhaust was a bit weird. Those fans at the front were intake or exhaust ? Your case doesn't have exhaust at the top (except for the PSU's fan).
> 
> 
> 
> The case moves air from bottom to top, the fans on the bottom were always intake with the top exhaust.
Click to expand...

Oh, ok, the orientation of the photos made it look like it was a conventional case. Now looking at your sig rig I see you've got a Silverstone case, it's one of those where blower type cards can just expel hot air upwards, right ?


----------



## Sir Beregond

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> This.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you sir, are a REAL enthusiast, not blinded by wearing some red or green colored glasses all the time. I'm glad at least some people don't try and deny the truth in every way possible just to defend their favorite team (doesn't matter green or red).


Very true.


----------



## Yvese

I just don't understand why people are worried about the temps on a reference card. Wait for the custom cards if you're so worried. Or watercool it since, you know, it IS an enthusiast card.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Oh, ok, the orientation of the photos made it look like it was a conventional case. Now looking at your sig rig I see you've a Silverstone case, it's one of those where blower type cards can just expel hot air upwards, right ?


Yes.
I am unsure if any other case gives the amount of airflow these Silverstone cases do.


----------



## amd655

*290x vs TITAN*


----------



## SKYMTL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Osjur*
> 
> I'll just leave this here:
> Posted by Gibbo (OCUK Staff Member)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Pro version comes with 400-450$ pricetag then nVidia will literally **** their pants.
> 
> /me thinks R9 290PRO + waterblock x 2 =


Actually, all NVIDIA has to do now is release the GTX 780 Ti at a competitive price and we're pretty much back to square one....


----------



## mohit9206

Is this card a decent upgrade over my 7750 ?


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> *290x vs TITAN*


oh God.. Another long one..


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Custom GPU roundup [UK only]
> 
> TITAN:
> http://cdn.overclock.net/1/1b/200x200px-ZC-1b163659_W60S2RY.jpeg
> 
> 290x:
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183
> 
> DAT sexy 290x cooler is making me slobber and my wallet cry.


I agree, black pcb + black prolimatech cooler + two 140mm black fans = video card porn.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Eh, I still love my Titans though...


They are awesome cards performance-wise no doubts whatsoever, it's just that with the R9 290X out now (and custom 780s for that matter, not to mention the upcoming 780Tis), they are pretty much obsolete IMHO, unless someone would buy them specially for their computing abilities. So yeah, they were badass cards half an year ago when there wasn't really competition for them, but now... Well, let's say not so much. I wouldn't be suprised if they go EOL, as soon as Nvidia releases the 780Ti.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> Is this card a decent upgrade over my 7750 ?


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...*


the 480 is SEXY!


esp. compared to:










but yeah, point taken . . .


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Oh, ok, the orientation of the photos made it look like it was a conventional case. Now looking at your sig rig I see you've a Silverstone case, it's one of those where blower type cards can just expel hot air upwards, right ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> I am unsure if any other case gives the amount of airflow these Silverstone cases do.
Click to expand...

I once felt tempted to buy one, but then I wondered how does it behave with open air coolers on GPUs ? It only has one place to put a 120mm fan to expel hot air upwards, right ?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I once felt tempted to buy one, but then I wondered how does it behave with open air coolers on GPUs ? It only has one place to put a 120mm fan to expel hot air upwards, right ?


3x 180 mm on the base of the case, and only a single 120 up top, with open air coolers, this case shifts every bit of heat, however when gaming it makes a crack noise because the case does expand when heat rises.


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Tell me @ what clocks did 290x actually run in his review? From all we know it is bellow 1000MHz if he didn't increase the fan speed


Not sure, I'm exploring that now.

Regarding your MSI Lightning claim, I asked him and here you go...


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> Not sure, I'm exploring that now.
> 
> Regarding your MSI Lightning claim, I asked him and here you go...


You should ask him what clock speeds both cards were running at as well.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I once felt tempted to buy one, but then I wondered how does it behave with open air coolers on GPUs ? It only has one place to put a 120mm fan to expel hot air upwards, right ?
> 
> 
> 
> 3x 180 mm on the base of the case, and only a single 120 up top, with open air coolers, this case shifts every bit of heat, however when gaming it makes a crack noise because the case does expand when heat rises.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I guess I'll stay with my HAF 912 Plus then. 200mm fan at the front (removable HDD cage removed), two 120mm fans at the top, with another 120mm fan at the back (which I've actually turned off as it doesn't make a difference). No noises.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KnightVII*
> 
> 290x fan 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, loud. But if you have crossfire. You will hear military plane.


Wow... no way I could handle that. My 780 Classified started driving me crazy benching at 100% fans speed which equals about 45-50% on the 290X. Even with headphones you would be able to hear that card!


----------



## mohit9206

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*


Does that mean a yes ?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> Not sure, I'm exploring that now.
> 
> Regarding your MSI Lightning claim, I asked him and here you go...


It wasn't me claiming it was lightning


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> Does that mean a yes ?


You asked if a 290x is a worthy upgrade to your 7750 right?

In that case, it will be more than double the performance, maybe almost 200% over a 7750.


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean a yes ?
Click to expand...

a 290x is like...4x-6x faster? in general depending on how you look at it.

2x 7750's basically is 7850 performance.
4x 7750's (not possible unfortunately) is 7850 crossfire (around 7970 OC territory)
so on...

I think this is correct









also too your CPU would bottleneck it.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> 8 Months later the Titan is still a ripoff at $1000...FACT.
> In 8 Months 290x will be $500 or less.(Opinion)
> NViDIA loves to rip off their Titan toting fanboys even with cards such as the GTX 770...FACT


EJB, why is this your focus, of the Titan's historical price? Your AMD card has arrived. Now of all times...AMD can compete now. That should be AMD users focus performance and the price you want, not your being jaded that someone paying 1000 8 months ago for a card you despise. Why do YOU care if you hate Nvidia. Envious a tad? Does anyone think the Titan will stay at 1000 dollars. During the lifetime of the 290X the Titan will not be 1000 dollars. Already on Ebay they are much less, and the price is still falling. Fact. No one is complaining about that.

This time machine everyone is in. Conveniently forgetting that AMD had *nothing* to compete with the Titan for 8 months. Welcome to competition, although even anyone with a level head realizes that the arrogance of joining the table does not warrant getting cocky about it. It's like a runner finishing last at the mile, after everyone else has gone home saying "Eat it suckers, I still got some left in the tank". There's an HBO show called East Bound and Down... for reference.

Take it for what it is. Great for AMD users firstoff, and great for us all for the "competition" now that NVidia are not alone with this level of performance. Because that's exactly what we are talking about, this current level of 780/Titan/ and now 290X. All overlapping for a "large part" of their sliding range of performance between stock and Max OC.

I can summarize this thread:
AMD Extremists







"Suck it Nvidia & your users" we beat you at $549 etc...
AMD level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.









Nvidia 780/Titan users "Welcome to February 2013..."
Nvidia level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SKYMTL*
> 
> Actually, all NVIDIA has to do now is release the GTX 780 Ti at a competitive price and we're pretty much back to square one....


The 780 Ti at a "competitive price" would render the 780 obsolete, and the Titan obsolete for gaming purposes.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


yeah. With R9 290X AMD did a HD 4870 all over again. faster than GTX 780 and Titan especially at 2560 x 1600 and 3840 x 2160. In fact R9 290X is the card to get for 4K







the caveat is the power,heat and noise (uber mode) . now its upto sapphire, asus and msi to apply those beastly Toxic, Matrix and Lightning coolers with more power phases and much better cooling (new triple fan model as found on the GTX 780 card) . Hawaii at 1.1+ Ghz clocks out of the box with these custm coolers for USD 600 is going to be a great deal this holiday. hopefully the custom cards are out in dec. for the time being EK has come to the rescue of enthusiasts. give this chip all the cooling and voltage it needs. tpu said hawaii scales perfectly with extra voltage but the stock cooler can't handle it.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/31.html

"*AMD's Radeon R9 290X shows fantastic clock scaling with GPU voltage, better than any GPU I've previously reviewed. The clocks do not show any signs of diminishing returns, which leads me to believe that the GPU could clock even higher with more voltage and cooling*."

now we have a good fight for alatar and his titan.


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> EJB, why is this your focus, of the Titan's historical price? Your AMD card has arrived. Now of all times...AMD can compete now. That should be AMD users focus performance and the price you want, not your being jaded that someone paying 1000 8 months ago for a card you despise. Why do YOU care if you hate Nvidia. Envious a tad? Does anyone think the Titan will stay at 1000 dollars. During the lifetime of the 290X the Titan will not be 1000 dollars. Already on Ebay they are much less, and the price is still falling. Fact. No one is complaining about that.
> 
> This time machine everyone is in. Conveniently forgetting that AMD had *nothing* to compete with the Titan for 8 months. Welcome to competition, although even anyone with a level head realizes that the arrogance of joining the table does not warrant getting cocky about it. It's like a runner finishing last at the mile, after everyone else has gone home saying "Eat it suckers, I still got some left in the tank". There's an HBO show called East Bound and Down... for reference.
> 
> Take it for what it is. Great for AMD users firstoff, and great for us all for the "competition" now that NVidia are not alone with this level of performance. Because that's exactly what we are talking about, this current level of 780/Titan/ and now 290X. All overlapping for a "large part" of their sliding range of performance between stock and Max OC.
> 
> I can summarize this thread:
> AMD Extremists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Suck it Nvidia & your users" we beat you at $549 etc...
> AMD level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nvidia 780/Titan users "Welcome to February 2013..."
> Nvidia level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.


Amen.....


----------



## amd655

Titan is just rubbish,

Cheapest TITAN from my favorite retailer.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/6gb-asus-gtx-titan-28nm-pcie-30-(x16)-6000mhz-gddr5-gpu-837mhz-boost-876mhz-cores-2688-dp-2x-dl-dvi-

Now a 780 already out does TITAN if you purchase a classy or similar, they are way cheaper, how is a TITAN going to do when 78o Ti beats the 780 by what? 15-20%? i think we should expect roughly the difference we saw from 480 GTX to 580 GTX, 15-20%.

TITAN is dead on it's toes.


----------



## Stay Puft

Unwinder posted today that his 290X hasnt arrived yet and has not started on enabling voltage control on msi afterburner


----------



## t00sl0w

very nice to see this didnt turn into another BD fiasco with promises that turned into actualized regression.

loving this card though, like i said in another thread...if i wasnt in the middle of buying a house, my 770 would be replaced instantly.
nice to see some fighting on the field again!


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> yeah. With R9 290X AMD did a HD 4870 all over again. faster than GTX 780 and Titan especially at 2560 x 1600 and 3840 x 2160. In fact R9 290X is the card to get for 4K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the caveat is the power,heat and noise (uber mode) . now its upto sapphire, asus and msi to apply those beastly Toxic, Matrix and Lightning coolers with more power phases and much better cooling (new triple fan model as found on the GTX 780 card) . Hawaii at 1.1+ Ghz clocks out of the box with these custm coolers for USD 600 is going to be a great deal this holiday. hopefully the custom cards are out in dec. for the time being EK has come to the rescue of enthusiasts. give this chip all the cooling and voltage it needs. tpu said hawaii scales perfectly with extra voltage but the stock cooler can't handle it.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/31.html
> 
> "*AMD's Radeon R9 290X shows fantastic clock scaling with GPU voltage, better than any GPU I've previously reviewed. The clocks do not show any signs of diminishing returns, which leads me to believe that the GPU could clock even higher with more voltage and cooling*."
> 
> now we have a good fight for alatar and his titan.


Wow raghu is here







.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Osjur*
> 
> I'll just leave this here:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I've now got 290 Pro beating X, Titan and 780 HOF (1310MHz) in all the benchmarks I ran with Asus BIOS. EPIC Card!
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by Gibbo (OCUK Staff Member)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Pro version comes with 400-450$ pricetag then nVidia will literally **** their pants.
> 
> /me thinks R9 290PRO + waterblock x 2 =
Click to expand...

*EZACKLYWHATIBEENSAYING!!*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


they have to have something to complain about no matter what lol.


----------



## AMC

I dont know why people keep arguing. These are great cards.

I love my 480's. Sure they are loud and hot but they have potential. And that's what I look for. The potential to get more. The 680's are nice but water cooling is kinda useless. They are efficient and 'cool' cards to begin with; they don't need water. Pushing the stock 480 with water from 700MHz to 920MHz was fun. 31% overclock is amazing and can be seen in games.

Here's the point. This card is almost perfect. People who are going water cooling will buy this card, reference, to push it to its limits; I am in that category. It will be fun to see how high they clock and it seems like keeping the heat in check is what you need with the GCN architecture. The 7970's I had needed decent cooling and they were beauts at 1370MHz.

For the people who don't want the noise and heat; *WAIT* for the non-reference designs. The temps and noise will go down. Sapphire and Asus will have their coolers working great for this.

Third is the price and drivers. The drivers are much better. AMD is spending way more time and effort to make these work which is great. And the price is great as well for the market we have now.

I just see this card satisfying both people. The ONLY issue is that the cards had a delay AND the non-reference designs are not here right off the bat.

My 2 cents.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Don't forget guys, none of these benchmarks are in titles that support Mantle.

Wait until Mantle hits, and we should see some insane numbers; I believe EA just confirmed 15 more titles using the new Mantle enabled Frostbite engine.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mohit9206*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean a yes ?
Click to expand...

You have what you, yourself call a "budget gaming PC", the rest of your system can't handle this card. The CPU doesn't have enough cores or speed or overclockability, the PSU doesn't have enough wattage, and your monitor is 17" big, which an R9 270X can more than handle. But given your PSU I wouldn't even consider the 270X. You'd have to upgrade your system before even thinking about anything faster.

I think I just got trolled.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I can summarize this thread:
> AMD Extremists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Suck it Nvidia & your users" we beat you at $549 etc...
> AMD level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nvidia Titan users "Welcome to February 2013..."*
> Nvidia level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.


there its now corrected. GTX 780 was released on May 23. so only Titan users can brag of having had this perf from Feb 2013. they also had to pay the extra USD 450 for those 8 months


----------



## froyang

hey,guys,go ocuk and check out oc results from gibbo, he got 1225 core 6600 mem
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534&page=2


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> You mean a standard radial blower like GTX TITAN , GTX 580, GTX 480, HD 7970, HD 6970, HD 5870, etc...
> 
> for $100 you can grab a Arctic Accelero Xtreme or a fullcover waterblock... so it's not bad


I don't mean the fan. The 780 and Titan coolers look like the top of the heatsinks are open fins like normal heatsinks, and then a shroud on top of that. But the 290x's heatsink has the top closed off like a tunnel.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-2.html

And $100 for an Arctic Accelero Xtreme, or even more for an entire WC loop, is just too much for me. I expect custom 290Xs to be around $50 more than the reference, with some exceptions


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

yeah, so this is gonna go in my next rig once the aftermarket coolers are released or I win the lottery for a kickass WC build, but I don't have that kind of cash...


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I can summarize this thread:
> AMD Extremists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Suck it Nvidia & your users" we beat you at $549 etc...
> AMD level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nvidia 780/Titan users "Welcome to February 2013..."
> Nvidia level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.


This precisely.

Thank God for competition!! Absolutely awesome!


----------



## froyang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *froyang*
> 
> hey,guys,go ocuk and check out oc results from gibbo, he got 1225 core 6600 mem
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534&page=2


omg, 1250 now


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> *290x vs TITAN*


Thanks for linking. At least, in his review and in this video he tried to explain his conclusions. He also did OC comparison. Not sure why the other reviewers just posted from AMD's reviewer guidelines. Why bother do I review in the first place.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Those of u that bought TITAN are SCREW Twice... first no one will give u more than $600 for a Titan now that AMD has a Card tha beat it
> and AMD is giving u a cheaper card for the same performance or more....
> 
> If some one is willing to sell me a USED TITAN for $400 thats ok for me


You are not addressing someone working at McDonalds who's hobby is catching catfish on weekends. The OCN users you are talking to have yet to see their Titans bested at anything in our own hands... Our Titans have a wide range of custom adjustments. Sure the 290X can cover some of the range of a 780 or Titan. All these cards AMD and Nvidia have a wide range of performance windows due to various settings.

Just because a 290X can beat a Titan on select tests at reference, uber, or low OC, we should all hold on, until "We" OCN get our hands on them for the usual OCN testing. I'm not even talking LN2. That's single bench only, super select, non working 24/7 and should be excluded.

Only reason I bring this up is because you were addressing us here on OCN. I believe the 290X has great promise when the cooling gets under control, and that's what many are waiting for. Right now I also do think it's unfair to compare 1300mhz Titans and 780's to a 290X until we see side by side comparable runs done by us.

Also Titan owners were not screwed when the 1000 we paid 8 months ago was the *only* player in the game outright to get to this current level of performance from a single GPU. We could afford it that's all. And that's not looking down at anyone who could not. I also realize not everyone is humble to the point of not sticking in others faces, while I cannot speak for everyone, don't lump all of us in the same boat. Idiots on both sides I agree. My personal sentiment is that the 290X is the best thing to happen in the last 8 months as it levels the playing field for all our sakes.

That said, Specifically to your post you come off as one of the arrogant ones...that I will point out. Nothing constructive just baiting for whatever reason you have.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Don't forget guys, none of these benchmarks are in titles that support Mantle.
> 
> Wait until Mantle hits, and we should see some insane numbers; I believe EA just confirmed 15 more titles using the new Mantle enabled Frostbite engine.


This exactly. Mantle release + non reference versions of the R9 290X = some epic numbers upcoming.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *froyang*
> 
> omg, 1250 now


OMG Its over 9000 mhz core.

But seriously. Stop spamming please.


----------



## froyang

Hynix and Elpida are both just as good as each other.I took my Elpida card which could only do 5700MHz, flashed the Asus BIOS to it, pumped up the voltage and now the Elpida card is matching with 6600MHz. So there you go, Elpida, Hynix, it don't matter. What matters is voltage control. Asus BIOS FTW. By the way this is an R290 I've flashed with R290X BIOS, works a tread, but shaders not unlocked, but can now hit 1220 core and 6600 RAM on the regular R290 as well. At these speeds this also obliverates Titan. Incredible value!

update by gibbo


----------



## AMC

It's not spamming. That link works well. Discusses how the 290 with an overclock to 1200 using the Asus bios beats the Titan as well. This is going to be a fantastic card.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clubber_lang*
> 
> I can't read through almost a 100 page thread on this thing......But........
> 
> Just from looking at the benchmarks , the prices of this new AMD line up........They just kicked the living crap out of Nvidia!
> 
> I'll bet I'm one of the most inexperienced guys on this board......but when I start to read tests from Hilbert and Wizard on this 290X........I let there graphs and so forth do the talking.
> 
> How could you say anything negative about a $550.00 card coming in and matching and sometimes beating a $1000.00 card?
> 
> Some of you guys get so offended by this , you reach for straws and pull things from your butt that make no sense. To caught up in the moment and don't let common sense play a role before you type something out.


Yeap, now we have Titan performance at $550. Ofcourse people are gonna be offended.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMC*
> 
> It's not spamming. That link works well. Discusses how the 290 with an overclock to 1200 using the Asus bios beats the Titan as well. This is going to be a fantastic card.


+1, and thanks to the "spammer"


----------



## scorpscarx

So it's sold out everywhere and I guess Amazon never even got any? lol


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Yeap, now we have Titan performance at $550. Ofcourse people are gonna be offended.


the people that are so offended should sell their titans and grab some 290x's then if it matters so much to them lol.


----------



## VegetarianEater

can't wait for a custom cooled version of this card (i dont watercool) like a twin frozr or DCU2.... and if sapphire has a toxic version like the 280x...









with these cards throttling with the reference cooler, the performance with custom coolers and on water should be even greater... imagine how fast it will be actually stable at 1200mhz!


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I am just curios which card will come on top for BF4 which is the most important tittle for 2014. If Mantle really does performance improvements then 290X will be a monster in BF4.

If i was to buy a GTX780, Titan, 290X, 290 right now for 1440p it would be because of wanting CF which i have not problems with.

Other option would be if i had money for 4K then i would want 2 x 290X. Other then that i dont see myself getting 2 x 290X for 1440p because i know 3770K @ 4.6GHz will not be enough most of the time.


----------



## bencher

For the heaven benchers.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534


----------



## taafe

Yes I admit the price/performance is excellent but wish you would wait at least until the 780ti is released because I dont think you r290x lovers will be singing for much longer. The 780ti will beat the titan and the r290x imo plus nvidia will adjust prices now amd has shown there hand. I'd be happy to pay £50 for better looking card thats not cheap, hot and loud


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> For the heaven benchers.


:O TITAN=


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I am just curios which card will come on top for BF4 which is the most important tittle for 2014. If Mantle really does performance improvements then 290X will be a monster in BF4.
> 
> If i was to buy a GTX780, Titan, 290X, 290 right now for 1440p it would be because of wanting CF which i have not problems with.
> 
> Other option would be if i had money for 4K then i would want 2 x 290X. Other then that i dont see myself getting 2 x 290X for 1440p because i know 3770K @ 4.6GHz will not be enough most of the time.


You can buy two 290X for the cost of a single Titan.....

That should settle your performance needs for the next couple of years.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


Oh I remember those 10 page arguments,


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taafe*
> 
> Yes I admit the price/performance is excellent but wish you would wait at least until the 780ti is released because I dont think you r290x lovers will be singing for much longer. The 780ti will beat the titan and the r290x imo plus nvidia will adjust prices now amd has shown there hand. I'd be happy to pay £50 for better looking card thats not cheap, hot and loud


Only £50 more? I didn't realise Nvidia were that desperate to drop prices, but whatever, more competition is never bad. And if we're super lucky... price war


----------



## froyang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> OMG Its over 9000 mhz core.
> 
> But seriously. Stop spamming please.


ok,stop now


----------



## Stoffie

Wow i am stumped my local shop charges £1000 for a titan and £429 for a r9 290x, well unless the 780ti can be twice as fast as a 290x then my money will be going to amd again


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taafe*
> 
> Yes I admit the price/performance is excellent but wish you would wait at least until the 780ti is released because I dont think you r290x lovers will be singing for much longer. The 780ti will beat the titan and the r290x imo plus nvidia will adjust prices now amd has shown there hand. I'd be happy to pay £50 for better looking card thats not cheap, hot and loud


You'd buy a more expensive slower card because it looks better? Tomshardware is over there


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> For the heaven benchers.
> 
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534


Really loving the NDA OC. Pretty much the same thing that happened with Tahiti. I'm hoping for 400€ but expecting 450€.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

This guy claiming the 290 (non-X) "obliterates" the Titan, I bet he's not comparing it to a 1300+MHz Titan using the LLC disable code and 1300+mV. No way a 1220MHz 290 beats a 1350MHz Titan. I'd have to see proof of that...


----------



## NJsFinest24

I will be waiting for the non reference cards to come out. I cant wait, but I hope it doesnt take too long to come out lol.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taafe*
> 
> Yes I admit the price/performance is excellent but wish you would wait at least until the 780ti is released because I dont think you r290x lovers will be singing for much longer. The 780ti will beat the titan and the r290x imo plus nvidia will adjust prices now amd has shown there hand. I'd be happy to pay £50 for better looking card thats not cheap, hot and loud












If anything Nvidia will drop the 780 to the 290X price point, put the 780 Ti at the current 780 price point, and leave Titan be.

Titan isn't just a gaming card, it also has great compute; to a degree is an entry level work station card. Nvidia knows this, we know this, so I don't expect Titan pricing to fall at any point. On top of this, we are pretty safe in knowing that the 780 Ti isn't going to be better than Titan, the only step above Titan from Nvidia is a full blown GK110 die, and those are for the Quadro's, they won't release a GPU with a full 15 SMX.

So, what to expect from 780 Ti? A 3 GB version of the Titan with cut back compute; near Titan levels of gaming performance for less. Which still doesn't beat the 290X, we are already seeing the 290X beat the Titan and this isn't even including Mantle.

You may not like to admit it, but AMD just did the gaming world a favor. Mad power at an affordable price point!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NJsFinest24*
> 
> I will be waiting for the non reference cards to come out. I cant wait, but I hope it doesnt take too long to come out lol.


Usually only a few weeks after reference launch; Asus already has a SKU for the DC U model!


----------



## amd655

OMG if 290 is 350 pounds.............

TITAN CAN GO SWING TO THE NEXT RIVER.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> +1, and thanks to the "spammer"


He made 3 posts regarding it is all.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> He made 3 posts regarding it is all.


I am all for spamming when it rubs in true cold facts


----------



## bencher

You all really need to check the defence in this thread .








http://www.overclock.net/t/1436596/ek-ek-fc-r9-290x-for-amd-radeon-r9-290x-makes-its-debut


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

A $550 290X is epic value for money to be sure. But it will still be below a lot of Titans in the benching threads methinks!


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> He made 3 posts regarding it is all.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> I am all for spamming when it rubs in true cold facts


I thought he was just "Live Blogging" a current OC attempt on a new 290X.....

I found it informational.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> I am all for spamming when it rubs in true cold facts


95C Personally burns me so i'm all for _rubbing_ lotion on my skin.

I could also take the hose again.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> A $550 290X is epic value for money to be sure. But it will still be below a lot of Titans in the benching threads methinks!


Because benchmark results are totally more important than performance in gaming.


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> You mean a standard radial blower like GTX TITAN , GTX 580, GTX 480, HD 7970, HD 6970, HD 5870, etc...
> 
> for $100 you can grab a Arctic Accelero Xtreme or a fullcover waterblock... so it's not bad
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean the fan. The 780 and Titan coolers look like the top of the heatsinks are open fins like normal heatsinks, and then a shroud on top of that. But the 290x's heatsink has the top closed off like a tunnel.
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-2.html
> 
> And $100 for an Arctic Accelero Xtreme, or even more for an entire WC loop, is just too much for me. I expect custom 290Xs to be around $50 more than the reference, with some exceptions
Click to expand...

Would you like to see what a 7970 heatsink looks like...?


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> :O TITAN *@stock* =


Fixed


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> 95C Personally burns me so i'm all for _rubbing_ lotion on my skin.
> 
> I could also take the hose again.


LOL wat.

TITAN @ 1,000 dollars^


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> 95C Personally burns me so i'm all for _rubbing_ lotion on my skin.
> 
> I could also take the hose again.


TDP is TDP........


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> LOL wat.
> 
> TITAN @ 1,000 dollars^


I was trying to be punny.


----------



## dealio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> 95C Personally burns me so i'm all for _rubbing_ lotion on my skin.
> 
> I could also take the hose again.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL wat.
Click to expand...

LOL i understood completely.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Because benchmark results are totally more important than performance in gaming.


Well its a given that both cards will perform great in games. But yes, some of us care quite a bit about benching. If you don't then there's no reason not to go with a 290 (really don't even need to spend extra for a 290X)...


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> OMG if 290 is 350 pounds.............
> 
> TITAN CAN GO SWING TO THE NEXT RIVER.


The Titan, the GTX 780 Ti, the GTX 780, the GTX 770 4 GB and the GTX 770 2 GB.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> I don't mean the fan. The 780 and Titan coolers look like the top of the heatsinks are open fins like normal heatsinks, and then a shroud on top of that. But the 290x's heatsink has the top closed off like a tunnel.
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-2.html
> 
> And $100 for an Arctic Accelero Xtreme, or even more for an entire WC loop, is just too much for me. I expect custom 290Xs to be around $50 more than the reference, with some exceptions


Xtreme III is 71 dollars

http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Xtreme-III-Cooler/dp/B007YLUCKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636582&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Xtreme

Twin Turbo II is 39

http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Twin-Turbo-Cooler/dp/B005FYCFG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636604&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Twin+Turbo+II

Twin Turbo should easily be enough with its 5 heatpipes


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BizzareRide*
> 
> Nvidia should just release the 2880-core part and price it at $600 and drop the price of the Ti 780 and stock 780.


You can get the 2880 core version of the Titan TODAY right NOW... It also has 6GB MORE memory. It's called the K6000 hold onto your rear end.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133494

The sticker shock might send even ALATAR into the grave early.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> "Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Sig worthy.."
> 
> Nvidia had an 8 month clear performance lead on anything AMD had at that time, single GPU. Fact.
> Nvidia asked an extreme price premium for this lead. Fact
> Titan owners blew the lid off the stock performance in Bios unlocks within 40 days and several more months for Voltage unlocks. Fact.
> 
> AMD now in end of October has stock and some OC performance that is in the "same performance window" as 780 and Titan. Fact
> AMD has a clear "Winning" price point of the single GPU. FACT!!!
> AMD has more tricks up it's sleeve pending to grow their performance with these cards just like 780 and Titan. (*Opinion*...not fact yet as it has not been delivered) Mantle / aftermarket cooling / drivers etc. but looks promising.
> 
> All of us will win on price if AMD competes going forward. (strong historical opinion)
> This 8 months really was a lose / lose for all of us. (AMD owners performance. Nvidia owners price....Opinion)


Well Summarized and non biased

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> Those of u that bought TITAN are SCREW Twice... first no one will give u more than $600 for a Titan now that AMD has a Card tha beat it
> and AMD is giving u a cheaper card for the same performance or more....
> 
> If some one is willing to sell me a USED TITAN for $400 thats ok for me


I wouldn't have bought a NEW Titan since May after the 780 came out.. Anyone who bought a Titan after may to game on should be slapped.. It's only redeeming quality at that point was GPU compute. Even then if you care so much about compute you should probably use a professional card and not a consumer card.

Right now? A Brand New Titan should run no more than 600 bucks... I wouldn't buy a used one for more than 450. That's been my stance since MAY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Nvidia can make something like a 2880c Kepler that has stock clock ~ 1100MHz and Boots 1200MHz+. It will probably use a lot of power but they can.


yeah it's called the K6000
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I do chuckle at all the Nvidia fanboys who first said there was no way AMD would release a 400mm^2+ chip. Then said there was no way it could ever match the 780 or Titan. Then said there was no way it would have 64 ROPs. Or 512 bit bus. Or 4GB VRAM. Then it wasn't going to be less than $750 because of the memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the only thing they have left is to make weak jokes about the cooler as though everybody has forgotten the GTX 480...


Majin we really need more people like you on OCN. People that may have a bias but are LEVEL HEADED enough to admit the truth.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> EJB, why is this your focus, of the Titan's historical price? Your AMD card has arrived. Now of all times...AMD can compete now. That should be AMD users focus performance and the price you want, not your being jaded that someone paying 1000 8 months ago for a card you despise. Why do YOU care if you hate Nvidia. Envious a tad? Does anyone think the Titan will stay at 1000 dollars. During the lifetime of the 290X the Titan will not be 1000 dollars. Already on Ebay they are much less, and the price is still falling. Fact. No one is complaining about that.
> 
> This time machine everyone is in. Conveniently forgetting that AMD had *nothing* to compete with the Titan for 8 months. Welcome to competition, although even anyone with a level head realizes that the arrogance of joining the table does not warrant getting cocky about it. It's like a runner finishing last at the mile, after everyone else has gone home saying "Eat it suckers, I still got some left in the tank". There's an HBO show called East Bound and Down... for reference.
> 
> Take it for what it is. Great for AMD users firstoff, and great for us all for the "competition" now that NVidia are not alone with this level of performance. Because that's exactly what we are talking about, this current level of 780/Titan/ and now 290X. All overlapping for a "large part" of their sliding range of performance between stock and Max OC.
> 
> I can summarize this thread:
> AMD Extremists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Suck it Nvidia & your users" we beat you at $549 etc...
> *AMD level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Nvidia 780/Titan users "Welcome to February 2013..."
> *Nvidia level heads - Thank god...We have competition, good for us all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Amen to the bolded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anything Nvidia will drop the 780 to the 290X price point, put the 780 Ti at the current 780 price point, and leave Titan be.
> 
> Titan isn't just a gaming card, it also has great compute; to a degree is an entry level work station card. Nvidia knows this, we know this, so I don't expect Titan pricing to fall at any point. On top of this, we are pretty safe in knowing that the 780 Ti isn't going to be better than Titan, the only step above Titan from Nvidia is a full blown GK110 die, and those are for the Quadro's, they won't release a GPU with a full 15 SMX.
> 
> So, what to expect from 780 Ti? A 3 GB version of the Titan with cut back compute; near Titan levels of gaming performance for less. Which still doesn't beat the 290X, we are already seeing the 290X beat the Titan and this isn't even including Mantle.
> 
> You may not like to admit it, but AMD just did the gaming world a favor. Mad power at an affordable price point!
> Usually only a few weeks after reference launch; Asus already has a SKU for the DC U model!


Competition is good. I am surprised that a LOT of people do not KNOW or at least RECOGNIZE that the Titan is a workstation card that didn't make the cut. They keep yelling "Nvidia could release a card with 2880 cores" No they couldnt because then K6000 potential customers would undercut Nvidia by buying the "Titan LE" for 4000 dollars less than what the actual card sells for now. But that card was NOT good for consumers and AMD did ALL of us a favor by obliterating it for half the cost. Competition is a good thing as you and I both agree on.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Xtreme III is 71 dollars
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Xtreme-III-Cooler/dp/B007YLUCKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636582&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Xtreme
> 
> Twin Turbo II is 39
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Twin-Turbo-Cooler/dp/B005FYCFG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636604&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Twin+Turbo+II
> 
> Twin Turbo should easily be enough with its 5 heatpipes


If GELID bring out a Icy Vision REV 3, it will cool the 290x epically, used it on 480's. got higher clocks than most WC users and below 80c on a max OC.

55c stock, 75c at 850mhz.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> A $550 290X is epic value for money to be sure. But it will still be below a lot of Titans in the benching threads methinks!


I dont think so.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436561/various-amd-radeon-r9-290x-reviews-thread/450#post_21047212

A bet 290x will fly under water and voltage control


----------



## taafe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> You'd buy a more expensive slower card because it looks better? Tomshardware is over there


I didn't say anything about buying a slower card, the 780ti will be faster


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> A $550 290X is epic value for money to be sure. But it will still be below a lot of Titans in the benching threads methinks!


not really. the stock r9 290x with quiet mode is throttling like hell. clocks are in the 900 - 930 mhz ramge in the demanding games like crysis , crysis 3, metro Last Light
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/19

anandtech's gtx titan was consistently in the 966 - 992 mhz range
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/15

I won't be surprised if R9 290X is faster than GTX Titan once both are clock matched at 1.3 Ghz. Hawaii needs watercooling and loves the extra voltage.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Amik Vase*
> 
> Seems like an awesome card but im holding on to get 2x 780ti's, my reasoning is that the 290x has a crap stock cooler and that amd drivers are horrific for eyefinity and crossfire (great for single gpu though).


Don't see "horrific" in either of these crossfire reviews:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,22.html

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing/Power-Sound-


----------



## Faster_is_better

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> A $550 290X is epic value for money to be sure. But it will still be below a lot of Titans in the benching threads methinks!


People shouldn't have a problem conceding that based on the price differences. The fact that it can play with the top dogs (single gpu) at all at its price point is amazing. AMD/ATI has been steadily improving, and I love it.









Now for the cpu division of AMD to pick up the pace.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> If you don't then there's no reason not to go with a 290 (really don't even need to spend extra for a 290X)...


That's what I'm waiting for, seems that the R9 290 non X will probably be the best bang for the buck. And even better for the price in Crossfire.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Xtreme III is 71 dollars
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Xtreme-III-Cooler/dp/B007YLUCKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636582&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Xtreme
> 
> Twin Turbo II is 39
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Twin-Turbo-Cooler/dp/B005FYCFG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636604&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Twin+Turbo+II
> 
> Twin Turbo should easily be enough with its 5 heatpipes


The twin turbo wont be enough I think. From my experience, fans would have to be maxed.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> snip


So they just recycled the 7970's cooler? That's pathetic
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Xtreme III is 71 dollars
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Xtreme-III-Cooler/dp/B007YLUCKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636582&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Xtreme
> 
> Twin Turbo II is 39
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Twin-Turbo-Cooler/dp/B005FYCFG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636604&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Twin+Turbo+II
> 
> Twin Turbo should easily be enough with its 5 heatpipes


Will they fit the 290x?


----------



## amd655

LOL 2,880 core TITAN....

*$4,999.00*


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So they just recycled the 7970's cooler? That's pathetic
> Will they fit the 290x?


No one knows yet. Will test fit when mine arrive


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *taafe*
> 
> I didn't say anything about buying a slower card, the 780ti will be faster


Can you please tell me your source of information on this statement...?


----------



## malmental

This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..


----------



## lacrossewacker

What's wrong here? The reference cooler of just the GPU itself? On air there doesn't seem to be much OC'ing head room without breaking out the jet engines.

Guru3D only got " 5% maybe 10%" more performance out of OC'ing.

If that's the case, it's just a bit behind a OC'd Titan, *but at half the cost!*


----------



## Newbie2009

I get the feeling these cards are a watercooler's dream. Awaiting results OCN, hurry up!


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
> 1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..
> 
> -snip-


Fan speeds, temperatures?

What I really want to see though, is overclocking under water. Aiming for high clocks on a stock cooler is delusional... The Titan and the 780 are mere exceptions to that rule.


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> You should ask him what clock speeds both cards were running at as well.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> It wasn't me claiming it was lightning


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> It was said OVER and OVER that the R9 290X throttles pretty hefty. In some of the reviews it even throttles to around 800-900MHz. Now imagine what will be the performance without it throttling and with a 1200MHz+ core clock...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Linus test numbers should be taken with a grain of salt


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 290x is obviously throttling.
> 
> Linus isn't an expert either, wouldn't take his stuff seriously....


Description has been updated with a google docs link to Linus's OC clocks:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmLKAgEko3SAdHFtby1jNTFvaTF2UHhaMzdMQ0FNM2c&usp=sharing#gid=0

The 780 had +125mhz core / +300mhz mem offset (someone please work out what boost clocks that would result in!) and the 290X was at 1050mhz core / 1300 mem. As expected the 290X throttled.

For those who don't know what we're talking about...this thread is jetting along...


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I get the feeling these cards are a watercooler's dream.


Would that be a wet dream?

I'm very tempted.


----------



## NateST

They posted some benchmarks on OCUK @1225/6400 and I fins the results weird. It beats my graphics score in 3dmark11 by roughly 600 points, but only scores 3050 in Valley HD? Where I can score almost 3600?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
> 1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..


Linus test numbers should be taken with a grain of salt


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> They posted some benchmarks on OCUK @1225/6400 and I fins the results weird. It beats my graphics score in 3dmark11 by roughly 600 points, but only scores 2900 in Valley HD? Where I can score almost 3600?


Drivers maybe?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Linus test numbers should be taken with a grain of salt


Maybe the whole ocean.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
> 1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games.


It was said OVER and OVER that the R9 290X throttles pretty hefty. In some of the reviews it even throttles to around 800-900MHz. Now imagine what will be the performance without it throttling and with a 1200MHz+ core clock...


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
> 1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..


290x is obviously throttling.

Linus isn't an expert either, wouldn't take his stuff seriously....


----------



## malmental

Stay Puft - of course you would say such a thing.....
One time you like him and the next you don't...
Kinda like your love for nVidia one week and Radeon the next...


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> not really. the stock r9 290x with quiet mode is throttling like hell. clocks are in the 900 - 930 mhz ramge in the demanding games like crysis , crysis 3, metro Last Light
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/19
> 
> anandtech's gtx titan was consistently in the 966 - 992 mhz range
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/15
> 
> I won't be surprised if R9 290X is faster than GTX Titan once both are clock matched at 1.3 Ghz. Hawaii needs watercooling and loves the extra voltage.


IF, and its a big IF, the 290X can even clock to 1300-1350MHz then it should be neck and neck with a 1300-1350MHz Titan which would be amazing for the money. But even under water I suspect 1350MHz will be beyond the typical 290X's capabilities, especially since we don't know how much voltage AMD will allow yet. Could be wrong though...


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> LOL 2,880 core TITAN....
> 
> *$4,999.00*


I mentioned that in my post

here

Don't laugh 4 months ago it was 5,999.00

I don't get it people like alatar and other benchers worship at the altar of Titan... Why didnt they go out and bench K6000s? Oh that's right because Nvidia's driver and bios team doesn't allow for the Enterprise level stuff to be accessed in that way. But these geniuses somehow got around a bios lock. What it really comes down to is that no matter what we say about performance *PRICE DOES MATTER* The K6000 would have wiped the floor with Titan... Yet I see not one person sporting one on their sig rigs on OCN. Cheap punks.... afraid to spend an extra 4 grand for performance!


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> not really. the stock r9 290x with quiet mode is throttling like hell. clocks are in the 900 - 930 mhz ramge in the demanding games like crysis , crysis 3, metro Last Light
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/19
> 
> anandtech's gtx titan was consistently in the 966 - 992 mhz range
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/15
> 
> I won't be surprised if R9 290X is faster than GTX Titan once both are clock matched at 1.3 Ghz. Hawaii needs watercooling and loves the extra voltage.


I hope they don't take too long to release cards with decent custom air coolers. Some people just do not like to water cool. After the AIBs release custom air cool cards the 290Xs with the reference cooler will be a no go for most people but those who buy reference PCBs to water cool.
Was really hoping to see at least a Windforce 3X on day one but didn't happen.
The R9 290X with reference cooler reminds me of GTX 480, the reference coolers are garbage on those cards to show their true potential.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Stay Puft - of course you would say such a thing.....
> One time you like him and the next you don't...
> Kinda like your love for nVidia one week and Radeon the next...


I have NEVER liked Linus or eteknik.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 290x is obviously throttling.
> 
> Linus isn't an expert either, wouldn't take his stuff seriously....


You're assuming the 780 isn't also heavily throttling there? Do you really think Linus flashed a custom BIOS on it???


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> *290x is obviously throttling*.
> 
> Linus isn't an expert either, wouldn't take his stuff seriously....


And you call this based off a graph with no evidence of clocks achieved?


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Stay Puft - of course you would say such a thing.....
> One time you like him and the next you don't...
> Kinda like your love for nVidia one week and Radeon the next...


Whats so wrong about him not choosing a side?


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> IF, and its a big IF, the 290X can even clock to 1300-1350MHz then it should be neck and neck with a 1300-1350MHz Titan which would be amazing for the money. But even under water I suspect 1350MHz will be beyond the typical 290X's capabilities, especially since we don't know how much voltage AMD will allow yet. Could be wrong though...


Well, people thought that many things would be impossible for the R9 290X, performance, price, etc. just name it, but AMD pretty much proved them wrong on everything...







So, yeah...


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> IF, and its a big IF, the 290X can even clock to 1300-1350MHz then it should be neck and neck with a 1300-1350MHz Titan which would be amazing for the money. But even under water I suspect 1350MHz will be beyond the typical 290X's capabilities, especially since we don't know how much voltage AMD will allow yet. Could be wrong though...


Can't wait to be the first to say you are wrong.....

Don't spoil your right streak lol.

What would stop it from doing 1300mhz? heat?


----------



## Tippy

Going to have to double post this guys, thread is going too fast and I think people missed it first time...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> You should ask him what clock speeds both cards were running at as well.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> It wasn't me claiming it was lightning


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> It was said OVER and OVER that the R9 290X throttles pretty hefty. In some of the reviews it even throttles to around 800-900MHz. Now imagine what will be the performance without it throttling and with a 1200MHz+ core clock...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Linus test numbers should be taken with a grain of salt


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 290x is obviously throttling.
> 
> Linus isn't an expert either, wouldn't take his stuff seriously....


Description has been updated with a google docs link to Linus's OC clocks:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmLKAgEko3SAdHFtby1jNTFvaTF2UHhaMzdMQ0FNM2c&usp=sharing#gid=0

The 780 had +125mhz core / +300mhz mem offset (someone please work out what boost clocks that would result in!) and the 290X was at 1050mhz core / 1300 mem. As expected the 290X throttled.

For those who don't know what we're talking about...this thread is jetting along...


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> You're assuming the 780 isn't also heavily throttling there? Do you really think Linus flashed a custom BIOS on it???


Hmm 290x throttle as low as 700 in some situations from what i checked. Maybe lower


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

We'll have to see what the benchmark threads turn up in the next few weeks...


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> No one knows yet. Will test fit when mine arrive


I hope it works. I don't suppose there are any of those AIO and fan mount brackets that would fit the 290x?


----------



## malmental

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Stay Puft - of course you would say such a thing.....
> One time you like him and the next you don't...
> Kinda like your love for nVidia one week and Radeon the next...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats so wrong about him not choosing a side?
Click to expand...

that's not even the topic of discussion here, something between Puft and I..


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> Going to have to double post this guys, thread is going too fast and I think people missed it first time...
> 
> Description has been updated with a google docs link to Linus's OC clocks:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmLKAgEko3SAdHFtby1jNTFvaTF2UHhaMzdMQ0FNM2c&usp=sharing#gid=0
> 
> The 780 had +125mhz core / +300mhz mem offset (someone please work out what boost clocks that would result in!) and the 290X was at 1050mhz core / 1300 mem. As expected the 290X throttled.
> 
> For those who don't know what we're talking about...this thread is jetting along...


That essentially sounds to me like he overclocked the 780, but not the 290x.

50 mhz....lol.


----------



## LTC

What's the reason for the throttling? Temps?


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers. 1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..


the stock cooler throttles even in uber mode at stock speeds. so with overclocking it gets even worse.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/23/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/13

so unless you see custom R9 290X vs custom GTX 780 or watercooled R9 290X vs watercooled GTX 780 you cannot come to any meaningful conclusions


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> They posted some benchmarks on OCUK @1225/6400 and I fins the results weird. It beats my graphics score in 3dmark11 by roughly 600 points, but only scores 3050 in Valley HD? Where I can score almost 3600?


Link?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> that's not even the topic of discussion here, something between Puft and I..


Yeah shift. Mal and I are in love but he just won't admit it


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LTC*
> 
> What's the reason for the throttling? Temps?


Yes 95c is kind of furnace territory.


----------



## malmental

Even tiny Tom Logan from oc3d.net said that it feels like some cheap plastic when compared to the titan or 780..

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/amd-r9-290x-review-part-1/21/


----------



## djriful

Jesus... so many people on OCN...



336 viewers!


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Yeah shift. Mal and I are in love but he just won't admit it


Is your avatar what you do when you see mal?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> And you call this based off a graph with no evidence of clocks achieved?


I called it based on the other 50 reviews which shows throttle.

Really it is not nuclear science. It's common sense.


----------



## LTC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Yes 95c is kind of furnace territory.


Sad, so waiting for a 3rd party cooler would almost be a given, if you want to run this to the full potential...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Yes 95c is kind of furnace territory.


Deja vu anyone?


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Even tiny Tom Logan from oc3d.net said that it feels like some cheap plastic when compared to the titan or 780..
> 
> http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/amd-r9-290x-review-part-1/21/










DAT GRAPH.....

So informative.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Even tiny Tom Logan from oc3d.net said that it feels like some cheap plastic when compared to the titan or 780..
> 
> http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/amd-r9-290x-review-part-1/21/


How does it feel in the case? Where it will be 90% of the time?

BTW that is his opinion. I like the design of the 290x.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I don't know how many times I have to say that the 290/290X are brilliant cards that are going to benefit consumers tremendously. I just think the AMD fanboys are getting ahead of themselves now, thinking this is some kind of Titan killer. Even if it does clock as well under water that would only make it just as fast as Titan, not faster. Sure its a lot cheaper but I bought my Titans in February so that $2k doesn't really matter to me anymore.

Besides, if AMD could've released these cards when the 780 launched I suspect Nvidia would never have charged $1k for Titan in the first place...


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Even tiny tom Logan from oc3d.net said that it feels like some cheap plastic when compared to the titan or 780..


Hahaha the Titan better not feel cheap... Costing double of these bad boys









Nah, but being serious, the card is obviously throttling. I really liked HardOCP's review in that aspect. They really tried and tested the quirks of the card, and showed how it was definitely faster than the Titan once you got rid of PowerTune.

Below:
http://hardocp.com/article/2013/10/23/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/12
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't know how many times I have to say that the 290/290X are brilliant cards that are going to benefit consumers tremendously. I just think the AMD fanboys are getting ahead of themselves now, thinking this is some kind of Titan killer.


You know the funny thing? It is a Titan killer.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> That essentially sounds to me like he overclocked the 780, but not the 290x.
> 
> 50 mhz....lol.


Most likely because AMD did not leave much room for OC potential, after setting the turbo clocks high. Some of it can be corrected with water cooling, but most can only be fixed by a modded bios and soft volt hack , if one ever becomes available.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Deja vu anyone?


Never had it.........

If you had read way back, my 480 has been on custom air almost all of it's life, 55c is my 480's max temp on stock volts and clocks.


----------



## malmental

Who likes the design of this cooler.?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Even tiny Tom Logan from oc3d.net said that it feels like some cheap plastic when compared to the titan or 780..


I would gladly save $450 for my shroud being made out of plastic....


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> IF, and its a big IF, the 290X can even clock to 1300-1350MHz then it should be neck and neck with a 1300-1350MHz Titan which would be amazing for the money. But even under water I suspect 1350MHz will be beyond the typical 290X's capabilities, especially since we don't know how much voltage AMD will allow yet. Could be wrong though...


What do you think about the card compare to a titan or high end 780?


----------



## Phishy714

So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..

And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?

I wonder if AMD said 120C or 700watts. Would people defend that?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> Description has been updated with a google docs link to Linus's OC clocks:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmLKAgEko3SAdHFtby1jNTFvaTF2UHhaMzdMQ0FNM2c&usp=sharing#gid=0
> 
> The 780 had +125mhz core / +300mhz mem offset (someone please work out what boost clocks that would result in!) and the 290X was at 1050mhz core / 1300 mem. As expected the 290X throttled.
> 
> For those who don't know what we're talking about...this thread is jetting along...


He did set fan speed to 75% so it didn't throttle that much I would imagine. Not sure why he didn't set it @100% tho.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't know how many times I have to say that the 290/290X are brilliant cards that are going to benefit consumers tremendously. I just think the AMD fanboys are getting ahead of themselves now, thinking this is some kind of Titan killer. Even if it does clock as well under water that would only make it just as fast as Titan, not faster. Sure its a lot cheaper but I bought my Titans in February so that $2k doesn't really matter to me anymore.
> 
> Besides, if AMD could've released these cards when the 780 launched I suspect Nvidia would never have charged $1k for Titan in the first place...


Sorry it beats Titan almost all the time. So it is safe to call it a Titan killer.

You can draw conclusions without evidence, so can everyone else. But everyone else is a fanboy?


----------



## wermad

Has anyone's preorder shipped yet? Or are they gonna ship later?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..
> 
> And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?
> 
> I wonder if AMD said 120C or 700watts. Would people defend that?


Are you the engineer that designed the card and tested its limitations? Oh, you arent? ok, just checkin


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> You'd buy a more expensive slower card because it looks better? Tomshardware is over there


You guys are forgetting that Nvidia will have Shadow Play and g-sync coming out.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Don't even mention TTL's supposed "review" of the 290X to me. I've never seen such a blatant, pandering, hit piece masquerading as a serious review in my life. He literally is hocking the MSI 780 Gaming during his 290X review! I lost all respect for Tom after watching that sorry excuse for a review (in which he opens the video claiming the card will be $700 and doesn't even bother to correct that until 20 mins in)...


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Does any Reviews test 4K?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> You guys are forgetting that Nvidia will have Shadow Play and g-sync coming out.


And AMD has mantle


----------



## Arm3nian

TBH I think the 780/titan/690 coolers are a bit flimsy. They make a plasticy noise when moved around, gives me cringes.

I also like the look of the 290x cooler better. It is obviously a failure in performance compared to the green side but idc I'm throwing blocks on them.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> You guys are forgetting that Nvidia will have Shadow Play and g-sync coming out.


You guys are forgetting AMD is about to bring Mantle (which for the record, EA has confirmed to be present in more than 15 upcoming releases), and let's not forget about HSA.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Sorry it beats Titan almost all the time. So it is safe to call it a Titan killer.
> 
> You can draw conclusions without evidence, so can everyone else. But everyone else is a fanboy?


Because he can infer from the stock comparisons, and extrapolate to the OC potential. He knows what a Titan can do from his own over clocking, unlike the reviewers.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Never had it.........
> 
> If you had read way back, my 480 has been on custom air almost all of it's life, 55c is my 480's max temp on stock volts and clocks.


My 480 has been under custom air for nearly all of it's life, died not long a go, i can't bake it, but i may attempt to in the future, i reckon heat got the better of it (solder)

Been through many fan alterations to perfect it too...

See Spoiler content.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











Best performance was a pair of little Noctua's.





Even though a better cooler will do much better, the PCB will still heat up just like before, my 480's always had that problem, the core and VRM's were fine, but the PCB would really heat up.

Water is the best for a reason.

We will see similar things to come with 290x.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Don't even mention TTL's supposed "review" of the 290X to me. I've never seen such a blatant, pandering, hit piece masquerading as a serious review in my life. He literally is hocking the MSI 780 Gaming during his 290X review! I lost all respect for Tom after watching that sorry excuse for a review (in which he opens the video claiming the card will be $700 and doesn't even bother to correct that until 20 mins in)...


Agreed, I am usually a fan of his in depth reviews but this one was a disgrace to him, his site, and everyone else.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> That's irrelevant man, they want to sell the card.
> 
> There is no doubt in my mind the card will degrade faster and be a piece of **** to live with running on the stock cooler alone.
> 
> These things are literally pieces of ****, just like stock amd cpu sinks. News at 11.


Maybe, but until that happens, you are wrong.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> *Sorry it beats Titan almost all the time.* So it is safe to call it a Titan killer.
> 
> You can draw conclusions without evidence, so can everyone else. But everyone else is a fanboy?


Lol, where? Where is this happening? The reviews posted are all pretty much worthless as they are comparing throttling 290X's against throttling 780's and Titans. But don't worry, I will be in the benching section whenever you get your 290X and will be more than happy to run you in any bench you want...


----------



## taafe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Can you please tell me your source of information on this statement...?


Just a case off team green vs team red as always


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..
> 
> And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?
> 
> *I wonder if AMD said 120C* or 700watts. Would people defend that?


Why not? Many industrial extended range ICs/ASICs can run at 140ºC for their entire lifes and not have one single problem.

High temperatures are only a problem when the circuit is _NOT_ designed to run at such levels.


----------



## sydas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Don't even mention TTL's supposed "review" of the 290X to me. I've never seen such a blatant, pandering, hit piece masquerading as a serious review in my life. He literally is hocking the MSI 780 Gaming during his 290X review! I lost all respect for Tom after watching that sorry excuse for a review (in which he opens the video claiming the card will be $700 and doesn't even bother to correct that until 20 mins in)...


watching it for the first time now....


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> You guys are forgetting AMD is about to bring Mantle (which for the record, EA has confirmed to be present in more than 15 upcoming releases), and let's not forget about HSA.


Yea but G-sync and shadow play are much more innovative compare to Mantle.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol, where? Where is this happening? The reviews posted are all pretty much worthless as they are comparing throttling 290X's against throttling 780's and Titans. But don't worry, I will be in the benching section whenever you get your 290X and will be more than happy to run you in any bench you want...


I'm not usually the one to write such comments... but man your sig fits you so well right now.

"Some people have a hard time accepting that they are number 2." -KaRLiToS


----------



## roleki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
> 1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..


Did this guy just get a bad 290X? Those numbers don't look like the others that are floating around.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Yea but G-sync and shadow play are much more innovative compare to Mantle.


Opinion.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Yea but G-sync and shadow play are much more innovative compare to Mantle.












Both are extremely important (gsync and mantle).


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Yea but G-sync and shadow play are much more innovative compare to Mantle.


Its good for you to have an opinion, even if it is completely wrong.


----------



## Raxus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> And AMD has mantle


And doesn't require purchasing a new monitor.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sydas*
> 
> watching it for the first time now....


unless I am mistaken, the video is follow up to his review on his site, and is meant to be explanatory of his conclusions, not the review itself.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> I'm not usually the one to write such comments... but man your sig fits you so well right now.
> 
> "Some people have a hard time accepting that they are number 2." -KaRLiToS


Lol! Well, somebody actually has to prove to me that I'm number two first!


----------



## Miaauw2513

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't know how many times I have to say that the 290/290X are brilliant cards that are going to benefit consumers tremendously. I just think the AMD fanboys are getting ahead of themselves now, thinking this is some kind of Titan killer. Even if it does clock as well under water that would only make it just as fast as Titan, not faster. Sure its a lot cheaper but I bought my Titans in February so that $2k doesn't really matter to me anymore.
> 
> Besides, if AMD could've released these cards when the 780 launched I suspect Nvidia would never have charged $1k for Titan in the first place...


You know what really annoys me about this thread specifically? The AMD fans are preaching it beats a Titan at half the pricepoint and whenever some people link benchmarks that show otherwise it's "Throttling" or "Not overclocked properly". And when it DOES manage to beat a Titan Nvidia fans say "It managed to be at level with an 8 month old GPU







", or they don't like the noise and/or temp it gets to (Or Wattages for that matter, but if your shelling out $600 dollars for a GPU, I'm sure the extra few dollars a month doesn't matter anyways).

I like AMD and Nvidia a lot, and they both have terrific pieces of hardware (And software), and this release is gonna benefit all of us if it's gonna get some pricewar going. Maybe I should just stop reading this thread, but it's nice to read that informative post every 5 pages


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> 
> So they just recycled the 7970's cooler? That's pathetic
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Xtreme III is 71 dollars
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Xtreme-III-Cooler/dp/B007YLUCKQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636582&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Xtreme
> 
> Twin Turbo II is 39
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Accelero-Twin-Turbo-Cooler/dp/B005FYCFG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382636604&sr=8-1&keywords=Arctic+Twin+Turbo+II
> 
> Twin Turbo should easily be enough with its 5 heatpipes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will they fit the 290x?
Click to expand...

Would you like to see the 6970 ref cooler too...?


I'm confused, this is the typical 275w TDP cooler they've used for years, why do you think anything changed? Ever?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Jesus... so many people on OCN...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 336 viewers!


Meh, there were well over 400 viewers last night.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> You guys are forgetting that Nvidia will have Shadow Play and g-sync coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are forgetting AMD is about to bring Mantle (which for the record, EA has confirmed to be present in more than 15 upcoming releases), and let's not forget about HSA.
Click to expand...

HSA, hUMA, hQ, Mantle, TrueAudio... They got a nice list going.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Its good for you to have an opinion, even if it is completely wrong.


As a Youtuber and a person who renders video a lot, Shadowplay is fantastic for people like me, sadly Nvidia pricing is rather bad right now.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol! Well, somebody actually has to prove to me that I'm number two first!


How about we just say you are a number 2?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> the stock cooler throttles even in uber mode at stock speeds. so with overclocking it gets even worse.
> 
> http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/23/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/13
> 
> so unless you see custom R9 290X vs custom GTX 780 or watercooled R9 290X vs watercooled GTX 780 you cannot come to any meaningful conclusions


We can conclude that AMD crapped the bed with the stock cooler. Anyone seen any reference 290X vs reference 780 overclock reviews yet?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..
> 
> And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?
> 
> I wonder if AMD said 120C or 700watts. Would people defend that?


The best part is that the GTX 480 was a complete failure and embarrassment for Nvidia, even though it actually ran about the same temps as this card. Where are the 290X toaster pics?


----------



## provost

Well, AMD is #1 with the p/p crown with this release.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..
> 
> And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?
> 
> *I wonder if AMD said 120C or 700watts. Would people defend that?*


Yes. Because they know their stuff more than me or you or any other who do not work for them. Do you think they are stupid enough to release a stock of cards without doing research on their longevity if they did not expect them to exceed the expected warranty period?

This is not directed at you Phishy714 but general talking :-

Some facts that seems to be forgotten by Nvidia worshipers.

1- The R9 290X voltage is still not unlocked by MSI Afterburner.
2- There are still no decent custom air cooled to show what a custom R9 290X can do.
3- R9 290X costs half the price of Titan and beat it at 2160p by a noticeable margin.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/24/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/14
4- Linus review doesn't represent the final results of what a watercooled or (decently air cooled) voltage unlocked R9 290X can do.


----------



## malmental

fry egg time like the 480 attempt..?


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Don't even mention TTL's supposed "review" of the 290X to me. I've never seen such a blatant, pandering, hit piece masquerading as a serious review in my life. He literally is hocking the MSI 780 Gaming during his 290X review! I lost all respect for Tom after watching that sorry excuse for a review (in which he opens the video claiming the card will be $700 and doesn't even bother to correct that until 20 mins in)...


Same as, I was shocked.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Does any Reviews test 4K?


Only one i've seen so far is 1 page from Hard OCP review. EDIT : Guru 3d also.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/23/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/14

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,20.html


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Has anyone's preorder shipped yet? Or are they gonna ship later?


Mine has as well as another's. Try looking in the owners thread

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Don't even mention TTL's supposed "review" of the 290X to me. I've never seen such a blatant, pandering, hit piece masquerading as a serious review in my life. He literally is hocking the MSI 780 Gaming during his 290X review! I lost all respect for Tom after watching that sorry excuse for a review (in which he opens the video claiming the card will be $700 and doesn't even bother to correct that until 20 mins in)...


You had respect for tom's in the first place?


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> fry egg time like the 480 attempt..?


SOMEONE DO IT PLEASE


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> You guys are forgetting that Nvidia will have Shadow Play and g-sync coming out.


And you guys are forgetting that AMD will have Mantle and TruAudio...


----------



## Arm3nian

*This is Linustechtips video where both 780 and 290x are overclocked to the max with their coolers.
1440p The cards performed pretty much exactly the same and its funy that most of those are AMD games..*

Are you serious? You're going to take overclocking results from LINUS? They had videos coming up showing the 600 series killing the 7000 series when "overclocked".

What they do isn't overclocking...

Shadowplay? Really? Another gimmick that no one is going to use just like quick sync. Just like cuda conversion and quick sync, the quality is garbage. Lowest quality setting on x264 is proven to look better than the highest quality setting on everything else.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Shadowplay? Really? Another gimmick that no one is going to use just like quick sync. Just like cuda conversion and quick sync, the quality is garbage. Lowest quality setting on x264 is proven to look better than the highest quality setting on everything else.


Good post until this..........


----------



## ladcrooks

:









Well done AMD

Big thank you for not letting us down and not being a fan boy - this is good for everyone .

Come on nvidia, bring your prices down for your loyal buyers, they deserve it


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> fry egg time like the 480 attempt..?


but the cooler doesn't look like a barbecue grill


----------



## SKYMTL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> The 780 Ti at a "competitive price" would render the 780 obsolete, and the Titan obsolete for gaming purposes.


Not really. If NVIDIA slots the GTX 780 Ti in at $599 and the GTX 780 goes to $499, AMD will have some serious competition.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Titan is just rubbish,


Yeah....no. The Titan can't be discounted from this equation so easily since it has been around for 8 months and still has plenty of life in it for CUDA developers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Don't forget guys, none of these benchmarks are in titles that support Mantle.
> 
> Wait until Mantle hits, and we should see some insane numbers; I believe EA just confirmed 15 more titles using the new Mantle enabled Frostbite engine.


You're putting too much stock into Mantle. At this point we know of ONE game that supports it. By the time it rolls out into a good number of games, AMD's next gen cards will already be available. Just because an engine has Mantle support built in doesn't mean developers will choose to use it.


----------



## naved777

TinyTomLogan said Asus won't be making DCii version of 290x this year nor will PowerColor
Wonder if Gigabyte and MSI will follow the same path


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol! Well, somebody actually has to prove to me that I'm number two first!


In fact, I just wanted to corroborate that you felt like number one









Thanks for proving me right.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Looks like you'll want a custom loop just to run it at stock.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naved777*
> 
> TinyTomLogan said Asus won't be making DCii version of 290x this year nor will PowerColor
> Wonder if Gigabyte and MSI will follow the same path


The rumor is December for custom pcb 290X/290's


----------



## InfoWarrior

This is a really good card for the price. I'll wait for aftermarket cooler results before I make any judgements on it yet though. Either way, Nvidia is going to have a hard time selling a GK110 chip for $650+ unless they have something awesome up their sleeve with the 780 Ti. I would bet money on the fact that the green team was waiting for 290X speed/prices to come up with final specs. We'll see.


----------



## Kokin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> fry egg time like the 480 attempt..?




Funny how a few years changes things.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Would you like to see the 6970 ref cooler too...?


Just goes to show, they should have just forgone the reference cards and launched the 290x exclusively with custom cards.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> As a Youtuber and a person who renders video a lot, Shadowplay is fantastic for people like me, sadly Nvidia pricing is rather bad right now.


Out of interest, what would be the price of some hardware that could do the same/better/similar things to ShadowPlay? I suspect the money you save on the card by going AMD would cover the cost, and get you Mantle+TrueAudio+all that other stuff AMD has.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Just goes to show, they should have just forgone the reference cards and launched the 290x exclusively with custom cards.
> 
> Reference cards are still good for WCing, especially since the PCBs seem to be very good this time for reference, but for anyone on air custom will undoubtedly be better. The staggered release is important so we get some decent benches, and after 1 month prices will have dropped enough that custom cards can come in and take over the $550 price point.
> 
> I still maintain that the 290 customs are the ones people should be interested in. Toxic and Vapour-X have been all but confirmed, Windforce, Direct CU II, and Twin Frozr will most likely be coming too.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Are you the engineer that designed the card and tested its limitations? Oh, you arent? ok, just checkin


No I am not.

But what's next? 115C is ok?
500w for a single gpu is ok?

I mean have ANY manufacturers ever said that 95c was not good and gpu's should never operate at that temp? I think everyone just assumed to keep it under 90C out of common sense.

Now this card comes in that hot because it was clocked very aggressively to compete (I don't think anyone can argue its its clocked every aggressively) and is hitting these absurd numbers but its totally fine because "this guy said so"?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Good post until this..........


What?

You realize shadowplay uses the h.264 codec standard, but that doesn't mean the encoder is any good right? We have seen this time and time again, encoders other than x264 (cpu based) produce large files and crap quality.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Out of interest, what would be the price of some hardware that could do the same/better/similar things to ShadowPlay? I suspect the money you save on the card by going AMD would cover the cost, and get you Mantle+TrueAudio+all that other stuff AMD has.


Hmm you may have a good point here.


----------



## darkstar585

Damn fine results, Going to keep my 7970 till next gen me thinks...Although I am starting to get random artefacts appear while in the desktop, pixel lines that flicker for a few seconds on the edges on the screen...never seen them before until two days ago. Anyone else ever heard of this? I am on the latest beta drivers.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> What?
> 
> You realize shadowplay uses the h.264 codec standard, but that doesn't mean the encoder is any good right? We have seen this time and time again, encoders other than x264 (cpu based) produce large files and crap quality.


You do know Kepler from the 600 series have built in encoders right on the GPU it's self?

The visual quality will be determined by Shadowplay, as long as you have a fast enough storage medium, uncompressed will look as good as any.

I would rather have full uncompressed with no performance hit than compressed from the get go whilst still taking a performance hit.

Is this quality not enough?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











The difference with Shadowplay is no performance hit.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Out of interest, what would be the price of some hardware that could do the same/better/similar things to ShadowPlay? I suspect the money you save on the card by going AMD would cover the cost, and get you Mantle+TrueAudio+all that other stuff AMD has.


A good 1080p30 capture card is something like 150, but I think shadowplay works at higher resolutions and framerates.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naved777*
> 
> TinyTomLogan said Asus won't be making DCii version of 290x this year nor will PowerColor
> Wonder if Gigabyte and MSI will follow the same path


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The rumor is December for custom pcb 290X/290's


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125479
Quote:


> General
> Cooler
> WINDFORCE 3X


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..
> 
> And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?
> 
> I wonder if AMD said 120C or 700watts. Would people defend that?


Uber mode locks the fan at 3000rpm max. All people have to do is increase fan % for lower temps. I believe the guys over at OC.uk have hit 1250 core on the reference cooler with a higher fan speed
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125479


I of course could be wrong


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Well, people thought that many things would be impossible for the R9 290X, performance, price, etc. just name it, but AMD pretty much proved them wrong on everything...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, yeah...


I thought it was impossible to design such a horrible cooler but AMD proved me wrong.


----------



## Ghoxt

I think I can also summarize what we are seeing from a ten thousand foot level. I'd hate for all of us to be shallow and concentrate on the first week of 290X. November and December will be key i think. For both manufacturers.

Even if / when Nvidia drops the 780-TI, they are limited for how much they can charge for it, and at this point no one will pay a premium for it as long as there's a "reasonable" performance alternative which there looks to be right now. Win / Win for us we hope.



Someone slap me for making sense in a nonsensical thread...why i try i don't know.









I hate to say it but if the 780-TI comes out and beats the Titan and R9 290x by some wide margin and is expensive then we all would be poised to lose again by the loss of competition. But I won't buy the expensive card this time. At a certain point I realized that it's not necessary. I'd jump ship to the Red.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> You do know Kepler from the 600 series have built in encoders right on the GPU it's self?
> 
> The visual quality will be determined by Shadowplay, as long as you have a fast enough storage medium, uncompressed will look as good as any.
> 
> I would rather have full uncompressed with no performance hit than compressed from the get go whilst still taking a performance hit.
> 
> Is this quality not enough?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference with Shadowplay is no performance hit.


Yeah it doesn't mean the hardware encoders on them are any good. Almost all professionally encoded videos use x264 as the encoder. You're supposed to capture uncompressed, fraps works great for this any barely has an effect on system performance, and then convert.

Full uncompressed? You're telling me you're going to upload a 100gig video file to youtube? lol.


----------



## Ryan45

Asus teases DCU 2... maybe?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=605601756149893&set=a.186749591368447.43127.179161458793927&type=1


----------



## malmental

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/amd_r9_290x_review/6


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> No I am not.
> 
> But what's next? 115C is ok?
> 500w for a single gpu is ok?
> 
> I mean have ANY manufacturers ever said that 95c was not good and gpu's should never operate at that temp? I think everyone just assumed to keep it under 90C out of common sense.
> 
> Now this card comes in that hot because it was clocked very aggressively to compete (I don't think anyone can argue its its clocked every aggressively) and is hitting these absurd numbers but its totally fine because "this guy said so"?


But excuse me, but _where is the problem_?

As long as the ASIC can withstand the temperatures, it does not matter!!

Are Intel chips any worse than AMD chips because their temperature threshold is 95ºC instad of 62?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Yeah it doesn't mean the hardware encoders on them are any good. Almost all professionally encoded videos use x264 as the encoder. You're supposed to capture uncompressed, fraps works great for this any barely has an effect on system performance, and then convert.
> 
> Full uncompressed? You're telling me you're going to upload a 100gig video file to youtube? lol.


A full uncompressed video retains all quality, i only have to go to Handbrake and set the correct parameters, then i adjust for size, i have a really slow connection, and managed quality than most others on YT with less than 1mb upload, the video files i do are usually 180mb all the way up to 750mb depending on scene complexity and video length.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Reference cards are still good for WCing, especially since the PCBs seem to be very good this time for reference, but for anyone on air custom will undoubtedly be better. The staggered release is important so we get some decent benches, and after 1 month prices will have dropped enough that custom cards can come in and take over the $550 price point.
> 
> I still maintain that the 290 customs are the ones people should be interested in. Toxic and Vapour-X have been all but confirmed, Windforce, Direct CU II, and Twin Frozr will most likely be coming too.


I'm not saying they needed to launch with custom PCB cards, but they should have launched with custom cooling solutions. I doubt most OEMs would even have trouble doing so; they should be able to recycle their older coolers with minimal revisions.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Mine has as well as another's. Try looking in the owners thread
> You had respect for tom's in the first place?


Kewl, I'm waiting for eyefinity and the pacing fix. Also, i noticed that the 290x is using the revised video output connections so I'll need to get two hubs to run 5x1 Eyefinity (sucks!







). Maybe the 290Xx2 will have two dp







. Great news for those who will upgrade to Eyefinity 1440. New psu to run four is also a bummer since these guys are power hogs. Had enough with Fermi and high power consumption.

As exciting as it is, the costs are mounting so I may just abandon this route







. My other route is to wait for Titans to hit ~$650-600 and pick up four and go w/ three Korean 1440s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Does any Reviews test 4K?


guru3d.com also has some 4k benchmarks ran. I believe they did so as well for the crossfire vs sli review (290x vs 780).


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> A good 1080p30 capture card is something like 150, but I think shadowplay works at higher resolutions and framerates.


Quite a lot... ShadowPlay may be quite useful/convenient then, maybe enough to go Nvidia, though for even the average youtuber I don't see them uploading anything at 1440p/4K @60Hz - if youtube even allows that. Not to mention it'll be compressed by youtube anyway.


----------



## zealord

Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> I'm not usually the one to write such comments... but man your sig fits you so well right now.
> 
> "Some people have a hard time accepting that they are number 2." -KaRLiToS












I am ok being number 4 for now >.>


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.


Geforce experience? For real? Thats a valid reason? This forum quality goes down every minute


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am ok being number 4 for now >.>


Dude I'm so many numbers down I don't even think I make it to ground level.

Epeen wise, that is


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.


You are serious with the geforce experience, physx, and gsync? You have to own an nvidia card to be charged more for a monitor??


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> A full uncompressed video retains all quality, i only have to go to Handbrake and set the correct parameters, then i adjust for size, i have a really slow connection, and managed quality than most others on YT with less than 1mb upload, the video files i do are usually 180mb all the way up to 750mb depending on scene complexity and video length.


Yes, but file size does not equal quality. The actual encoder determines the quality.

You can have a 2gig video file encoded by shadowplay, and have it look much worse than a 500mb file encoded by x264. x264 results in almost uncompressed like image quality, and has settings for efficiency, the higher up you go, the longer it takes, but the smaller the file (better for uploading). This is why x264 is used, it might be much slower on the most efficient setting than anything else, but it results in the BEST image quality and gives you potential to achieve the SMALLEST file size.


----------



## spitty13

Does anyone have any idea when the asus cards will be released by newegg?


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.


Because overpriced cards and overpriced tech related to those cards is totally acceptable... not.









I wonder, when AMD partners come out with their non reference coolers and they fix the temperature/noise problem, what will Nvidia fanboys then grab to... Oh wait, I know - drivers, drivers, drivers!







This is getting so old now...


----------



## malmental

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.


this makes what you said a little better...


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> You are serious with the geforce experience, physx, and gsync? You have to own an nvidia card to be charged more for a monitor??


PhysX is worth it in the titles that use it, currently that is 500 games, however not all games require dedicated NV hardware to run the PhysX they use, only a handful.

Once you see PhysX it is nice to have, but i really would not miss it, and in the case that i needed it, i buy a low power GTX card to run along side my Radeon.

That is how i see it.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> You are serious with the geforce experience, physx, and gsync? You have to own an nvidia card to be charged more for a monitor??


Yeah what good is a card that can pull 100 frames, but can't display it properly to a display? I am more of a gamer guy. I actually like to play games the best way possible. Knowing about graphic cards and stuff is nice and owning hardware, but actually playing games with them is the most important thing.


----------



## geoxile

When is AMD going to start offering Never Settle bundles with the 290/X cards? There hasn't been news and they haven't really updated the promotion in a while.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> When is AMD going to start offering Never Settle bundles with the 290/X cards? There hasn't been news and they haven't really updated the promotion in a while.


There is BF4... which is a great deal.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Yeah what good is a card that can pull 100 frames, but can't display it properly to a display? I am more of a gamer guy. I actually like to play games the best way possible. Knowing about graphic cards and stuff is nice and owning hardware, but actually playing games with them is the most important thing.


So confident that you changed your sig and removed your pc specs 12:01am lol.

My 7970 is smooth btw. Where did you get your information from?


----------



## LCRava

Hopefully this will make Nvidia come back to earth and price their high end GPUs accordingly.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Yeah what good is a card that can pull 100 frames, but can't display it properly to a display? I am more of a gamer guy. I actually like to play games the best way possible. Knowing about graphic cards and stuff is nice and owning hardware, but actually playing games with them is the most important thing.


Hmph, well i was pulling 100+ frames on m 7970s and getting no tearing and i didn't have to pay an extra ?275? to not get tearing?

175 for the monitor kit, and 100 premium for the card.

Its just dumb to throw money at your screen for features which havent matured yet.

I mean i wouldve totally paid an extra 275 dollars for a video card with s video 4 years ago


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> There is BF4... which is a great deal.


290x without BF4 is $550
290x with BF4 is $580

BF4 is $60 alone. You save $30, it's not that great compared to past Never Settle bundles


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> There is BF4... which is a great deal.


Only 8000 of them. Which makes it strange that they haven't sold out yet - you'd expect brisk day one sales.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol, where? Where is this happening? The reviews posted are all pretty much worthless as they are comparing throttling 290X's against throttling 780's and Titans. But don't worry, I will be in the benching section whenever you get your 290X and will be more than happy to run you in any bench you want...


The reviews which clearly showing the 290x walking over the Titan is pointless now both in quiet and uber mode?

Very nice. I will tag this post and recall it when OC results are out.


----------



## AlphaC

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/4.html
http://www.expreview.com/28830-all.html

PWM: PWM driver is IR3567B , 6 +2 phase PWM control chip
... same one as ASUS ROG series mobos , MSI Xpower , and Gigabyte Ultra Durable

IR6894 DirectFET MOSFET
www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf6894mpbf.pdf‎
http://www.irf.com/whats-new/nr110201.html

Coiltronics chokes : 1007R3-R15 like on reference 7970?
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electronics/Resources/product-datasheets/Bus_Elx_DS_4341_FP1007_Series.pdf

Where's the R9 290X under water reviews? I mean EK already has a block out...


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> 290x without BF4 is $550
> 290x with BF4 is $580
> 
> BF4 is $60 alone. You save $30, it's not that great compared to past Never Settle bundles


And if you don't play bf4 you probably won't make more than 30 on the resell so its kind of pointless.

They are including a game for extra money that you'd pay for it anyways. Its the worst bundle i've ever seen.


----------



## amd655

Well i am a BF player so


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> And if you don't play bf4 you probably won't make more than 30 on the resell so its kind of pointless.
> 
> They are including a game for extra money that you'd pay for it anyways. Its the worst bundle i've ever seen.


Isn't the card also eligible for Never Settle Reloaded though?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> I never changed my sig, I never put in pc speccs? I didnt say the 7970 wasnt smooth. I was talking about G-Sync.
> 
> *jesus christ what is wrong with you?*


When I read your post I wondered the same. You seem to have tested G-sync before anybody else.

Now that we know 290x is the fastest single gpu card, you can now put your pc specs back in... It's not that bad.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> You can get the 2880 core version of the Titan TODAY right NOW... It also has 6GB MORE memory. It's called the K6000 hold onto your rear end.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133494


4999 $, save 1000 $.

,,,


----------



## wermad

Those here just to gloat about Nvidia (what ever your reasons), please read the thread title!!!! Seems folks are just doing it on purpose to start flame wars







. This saturates the thread with male cow excrement silliness and valid questions and posts get lost among the "debris". Please shtawhp









Btw, I have no allegiance to either. I think 290X is awesome but undecided if I'm going to change


----------



## Iching

Good luck selling your Titans. 7990 or 7970/7950 crossfire still looks quite formidable.


----------



## ledzepp3

This exactly is why I'm putting two of these in my main rig.

AMD, you've done good.

-Zepp


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> When I read your post I wondered the same. You seem to have tested G-sync before anybody else.
> 
> Now that we know 290x is the fastest single gpu card, you can now put your pc specs back in... It's not that bad.


No but reliable persons are talking about G-sync. One can trust them I guess. Like reliable persons are talking about R9 290X. Genius.

The 290X is only the fastest card if you compare it at stock clocks and if you don't run any application for a longer period of time.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> And if you don't play bf4 you probably won't make more than 30 on the resell so its kind of pointless.
> 
> They are including a game for extra money that you'd pay for it anyways. Its the worst bundle i've ever seen.


Who doesnt play BF4?


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Those here just to gloat about Nvidia (what ever your reasons), please read the thread title!!!! Seems folks are just doing it on purpose to start flame wars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This saturates the thread with male cow excrement silliness and valid questions and posts get lost among the "debris". Please shtawhp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, I have no allegiance to either. I think 290X is awesome but undecided if I'm going to change


You already got 780s, with how close they are I wouldn't bother.


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> When I read your post I wondered the same. You seem to have tested G-sync before anybody else.
> 
> Now that we know 290x is the fastest single gpu card, you can now put your pc specs back in... It's not that bad.


We know it's the fastest single GPU? Hold it cowboy. It apparently gets beaten by a 780 when OC'ed so a Titan properly OC'ed will destroy it.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> We know it's the fastest single GPU? Hold it cowboy. It apparently gets beaten by a 780 when OC'ed so a Titan properly OC'ed will destroy it.


Back to this argument


----------



## ledzepp3

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Who doesnt play BF4?






Dirty, dirty communists.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> We know it's the fastest single GPU? Hold it cowboy. It apparently gets beaten by a 780 when OC'ed so a Titan properly OC'ed will destroy it.


+REP









Let's get rid off those people spreading wrong information.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> We know it's the fastest single GPU? Hold it cowboy. It apparently gets beaten by a 780 when *OC'ed* so a Titan properly *OC'ed* will destroy it.


That is as bad as me saying my GTX 480 destroys a 7870 which it does, except under a huge OC................................


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> We know it's the fastest single GPU? Hold it cowboy. It apparently gets beaten by a 780 when OC'ed so a Titan properly OC'ed will destroy it.


It gets beat in tests by "Linus". Linus is a joke. If you're going to troll this thread at least have some benchmarks from a respected reviewer.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> No one knows yet. Will test fit when mine arrive


How many did you order?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> You're assuming the 780 isn't also heavily throttling there? Do you really think Linus flashed a custom BIOS on it???


Linus is less than reliable when overclocking IMHO. I am willing to bet both cards throttled some.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Can't wait to be the first to say you are wrong.....
> 
> Don't spoil your right streak lol.
> 
> What would stop it from doing 1300mhz? heat?


Eventually even with heat/power/voltage out of the equation, gpus simply will not go any higher. I have a feeling that the 290X will have a lower "ceiling" than GK110. And I think that is what he believes as well.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> No but reliable persons are talking about G-sync. One can trust them I guess. Like reliable persons are talking about R9 290X. Genius.
> 
> The 290X is only the fastest card if you compare it at stock clocks and if you don't run any application for a longer period of time.


Even while throttling down to 800mhz it is still on top. So please...


----------



## pokerapar88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> +REP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's get rid off those people spreading wrong information.


Though this is a forum where it is almost granted that everyone OC's their videocards, with stock clocks, the 290X seems to be in the lead (or at least on par) with the Titan. Mind this is with "UBER mode" on.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> +REP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's get rid off those people spreading wrong information.


The difference is so minuscule that it doesn't matter so repping people for siding with you is dumb.

Its like we are pitting my posse against your posse:


----------



## skupples

I just love how people who don't own titan, keep saying titan owners got screwed... Only the ignorant ones did. Most of us knew exactly what we were getting into, as we have been buying gpu's for years & understand that companies allways (for ever) will release cut down versions of the top of the line card. We knew they were over priced, and most of us didn't care. Just wanted to point that out.

*so, do we know if these things have unlocked voltage to the moon?*

Linus is payed by hardware resellers(ncix) & monitization of youtube, take w/e he say's with many grains of salt. He has been proven wrong over and over and over again over the years.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> You already got 780s, with how close they are I wouldn't bother.


I'm looking to move up in the monitors. I'm a portrait guy and love my current Dells. Would be easy to add two more for 5x1 Eyefinity.

The other options is to go with three 1440 monitors. Cheapest are the QNix and XStar for ~$300 a pop, but the bottom bezel makes it sucky for portrait mode (and no, I don't wanna debezel).

I'm not sure what to do at this point tbh. But I'll things roll by and see what happens then. Amd still has to fix the Eyefinity pacing issue first.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> How many did you order?


4 Sapphire's


----------



## ledzepp3

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> It gets beat in tests by "Linus". Linus is a joke. If you're going to troll this thread at least have some benchmarks from a respected reviewer.






+1

I haven't trusted him for a long time, he seems like a fairly biased person hardware wise. I've seen higher 3D Mark scores for the 290X sooooo I guess I'll have to compare the dual 290X's I'm getting with my friends dual Titans.

-Zepp


----------



## Mhill2029

Those temperatures..... definitely not for me.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pokerapar88*
> 
> Though this is a forum where it is almost granted that everyone OC's their videocards, with stock clocks, the 290X seems to be in the lead (or at least on par) with the Titan. Mind this is with "UBER mode" on.


yes thats true the stock 290X is a strong card, but leaving cards at stock is just a loss of free performance. and the amount of free performance gain on the 290X seems to be pretty small (as far as we know from the reference design reviews)


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Does any Reviews test 4K?


[H]ardOCP tested it, Tom's Hardware tested it (I actually posted one graph at 4K in the OP), and so did guru3D.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.


PhysX can run on the CPU, and you can hack the driver to run with a secondary Nvidia card. Shadowplay is nice, but AMD also has an h.264 encoder built-in, it's a matter of time until they release the same functionality, they already announced the equivalent to GeForce Experience, AMD Gaming Evolved Raptr. G-Sync is nice, but it's proprietary and it will add a $100 cost to the Asus monitor that has already been announced for next year.

As to temperatures / noise levels, this isn't pre-GTX 480 times anymore, enthusiasts have gotten used to 250w TDP cards and to replacing the reference cooler with an aftermarket one, such as the AXP, which didn't exist prior to 2010, along with water cooling for those more adventurous.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> How many did you order?
> Linus is less than reliable when overclocking IMHO. I am willing to bet both cards throttled some.
> Eventually even with heat/power/voltage out of the equation, gpus simply will not go any higher. I have a feeling that the 290X will have a lower "ceiling" than GK110. And I think that is what he believes as well.


Truth, but we aren't talking about air cooling here on OCN.....


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Truth, but we aren't talking about air cooling here on OCN.....


Only a small amount of folk on OCN use WC loops.

And i have seen time and time again that cards do not need water to reach their max potential all the time.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Who doesnt play BF4?


Got sick of modern warfare shooters like 8 years ago. So me.









Call me when 2143 is released.


----------



## Avonosac

If you haven't gotten yours yet, there you go just refresh this page every few minutes Here.


----------



## Ashuiegi

even if you forget the temp , the power increase will limit the oc no matter the cooling , you will never see one in the 1800mhz range under ln2 like you could on a 7970 , pretty sure


----------



## skupples

Here's what's best. Stop trusting "hardware journalists" and wait for real reviews. Like 290X taking the top of HWbot & unigine threads.

Need more eyefinity reviews.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> good VGA but Nvidia is near to Maxwell


lo freaking ol

do you honestly think that amd is not working on 20nm as we speak...pretty sure there was a thread about it.

and if history has taught us anything amd will be first with 20nm.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Who doesnt play BF4?


I don't plan on it. I despise Origin and I have had many troubles with their customer service.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 4 Sapphire's


NICE!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Truth, but we aren't talking about air cooling here on OCN.....


I wasn't either. Go over to the 780 Classified thread and have a look. At a certain point even with 1.5v and great temps under water, the card will just not go past a certain point. I just have a strange feeling that 290X will have a lower ceiling due to the density of what is packed into the die. I fully expect to be wrong though. And we will know if I am wrong soon enough.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> And i have seen time and time again that cards do not need water to reach their max potential all the time.


That's it, give back your OCN card...


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> You do realize that 290x is faster clock for clock than a Titan right? Why do you think Alatar got argued right out of this thread?
> Not only that, but they scale better than SLI. For HALF the cost of a titan you get more card. Bye Troll


Dang you guys are something serious! lol


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Only a small amount of folk on OCN use WC loops.
> 
> And i have seen time and time again that cards do not need water to reach their max potential all the time.


Well Altar and others want to see a water cooled 290x beat their titan. 290x overclocks just the same as titan on air.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Who doesnt play BF4?


I don't. I'd like a game where you are shooting US, and UK soldiers... with Chinese and soldiers from other countries. But some companies believe they must aim theirs games to US market and there is very few funny games like that.

On the other hand, I'd probably like to swap AC IV for BF4. Just out of curiosity how looks like BF4 multiplayer. If Asus and AMD would have a spine, they would pay 20 c per game, and include BOTH in bundle (you are forbidden to sell them because you received them for extraordinary price as part of the bundle).


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Isn't the card also eligible for Never Settle Reloaded though?


Nope, maybe next year. AMD wants to clear their old 79xx inventory first.


----------



## Stealth Pyros

I guess we know who the loser is for Q4.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> That's it, give back your OCN card...












Try this.... this was on my GELID air cooler before i modded it









http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/v8m2x/
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/5654604

1075mv for 855mhz. (Stable 24/7)
1088mv for 885mhz (Stable 24/7)
1188mv for 920mhz.(Stable but not recommended)
1213mv for 950mhz. (not stable)


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> You do realize that 290x is faster clock for clock than a Titan right? Why do you think Alatar got argued right out of this thread?
> Not only that, but they scale better than SLI. For HALF the cost of a titan you get more card.


sure when you can reach titans clocks. but we are not on Stockclock.net here. soon we will see a few OCN members test the 290X OC against 780/780Ti/Titan OC.


----------



## Bartouille

Definitely not liking the fact AMD starts to use the boost crap like nVidia. 95c is ridiculous too, this has no OC headroom on air, this card is only worth it if you have watercooling honestly.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 4 Sapphire's


I is ultra jelli


----------



## FoamyV

Or a better air cooler?









Quite curios of when the non-reference designs show up. The card looks promising, can't wait for proper OC tests.


----------



## Newbie2009

Wow all coming out of the woodwork today aint they.

IMO you cannot justify buying a 780 until nvidia drop the price. You should not buy a reference 290x unless you watercool.

I'm still mulling over them, no games really need this power, even 1440p over what I got I think. I dunno still want to see results with volts and blocks.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FoamyV*
> 
> Or a better air cooler?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186068


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> sure when you can reach titans clocks. but we are not on Stockclock.net here. soon we will see a few OCN members test the 290X OC against 780/780Ti/Titan OC.


You apparently didn't read the whole thread and missed the Quadfire set up and the posts regarding the 1200core clock on OCuk. Do you read?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 4 Sapphire's


Is that for the insane build?

You went all out man. Hope you cool them properly.


----------



## Clockster

Just wait for the non reference cards to launch if your bothered about the noise and heat.
Personally going water for the 1st time since 2008







So stoked!!


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> You apparently didn't read the whole thread and missed the Quadfire set up and the posts regarding the 1200core clock on OCuk. Do you read?


Why do you even bother...


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> IMO you cannot justify buying a 780 until nvidia drop the price. You should not buy a reference 290x unless you watercool.
> 
> I'm still mulling over them


Same here, I'm really sick of waiting and more waiting though.

If Nvidia actually drops the prices down to $500 and we get ACIV, Batman, and Splinter Cell Steam keys on the 28th, that's a hard sale for the same price stock R9-290x.

If Amazon stocks them before that though, I'm gonna press the trigger.


----------



## Final8ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gibbo;25171096*
> Nope
> 
> Its down to the BIOS on the card and having the right software version.
> 
> Asus works with GPU tweak.
> MSI will no doubt work with Afterburner.
> Sapphire with Trixx.
> 
> But they can do voltage, just software updates needed to go official.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am upto 1225Mhz core stable and 6600MHz ram.
> 
> This card is an absolute beast!!!
> 
> On water, I can see 1300MHz core speeds and 8Pack and his LN2 will be taking new records for sure!!
> 
> P.S. Retail cards seem better than AMD Press cards!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gibbo;25174099*
> **UPDATE**
> 
> Hynix and Elpida are both just as good as each other.
> 
> I took my Elpida card which could only do 5700MHz, flashed the Asus BIOS to it, pumped up the voltage and now the Elpida card is matching with 6600MHz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there you go, Elpida, Hynix, it don't matter. What matters is voltage control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asus BIOS FTW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By the way this is an R290 I've flashed with R290X BIOS, works a tread, but shaders not unlocked, but can now hit 1220 core and 6600 RAM on the regular R290 as well. At these speeds this also obliverates Titan. Incredible value!*


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25174099#post25174099


----------



## Bartouille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Wow all coming out of the woodwork today aint they.
> 
> IMO you cannot justify buying a 780 until nvidia drop the price. You should not buy a reference 290x unless you watercool.
> 
> I'm still mulling over them, no games really need this power, even 1440p over what I got I think. I dunno still want to see results with volts and blocks.


Same. I'm running my 7950 at 1230/1825 (stable in every games other than FC3, which I have to drop to around 1200) at 1440p no AA and it's fine. What I care about is that my SP games run over 30fps and MP over 60fps. My 7950 does it just fine. When AMD says this card is aimed at 4k it is true, it might even be overkill for 1440p, let alone 1080p!


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> just forget what I said. Didn't realize you are just around since 2012. Expected too much apparently. My bad.


You do not have much to say now do you? LOL


----------



## dookiebot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> The difference is so minuscule that it doesn't matter so repping people for siding with you is dumb.
> 
> Its like we are pitting my posse against your posse:


Using some empathy here, if I went so far as to spend an additional $500 to get an additional 5 FPS over the 290x then going out of my way to rep people who agreed with me with be the least I could do.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> You do not have much to say now do you? LOL


Apparently the join date of a member is totally relevant to the performance of Quadfire R9 290X...


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> You do not have much to say now do you? LOL


But you apparently have to say much. Too bad you chose quantity over quality.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Apparently the join date of a member is totally relevant to the performance of Quadfire R9 290X...


I was scratching my head as to what the relevence could be


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> But you apparently have to say much. Too bad you chose quantity over quality.


You seem a bit one sided... no offense.


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Apparently the join date of a member is totally relevant to the performance of Quadfire R9 290X...


Join date credibility now sold here!


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> I've now got 290 Pro beating X, Titan and 780 HOF (1310MHz) in all the benchmarks I ran with Asus BIOS. EPIC Card!


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551579&page=2

To the people impulse buying, I think I'd hold out for R9 290...


----------



## dookiebot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> But you apparently have to say much. Too bad you chose quantity over quality.


Says the member since 2004 with 9 rep?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> But you apparently have to say much. Too bad you chose quantity over quality.


No i just think before I spend.

Neither AMD or Nvidia is paying. I owe my wallet respect.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551579&page=2
> 
> To the people impulse buying, I think I'd hold out for R9 290...


Oh. This really could be a star card. €399


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So AMD says that 95C is what this card is designed to be run at..
> 
> And suddenly its ok and acceptable to have your GPU running at a constant 95C? And people are defending this?
> 
> I wonder if AMD said 120C or 700watts. Would people defend that?


Have you only been dealing with GPUs since last generation or something?


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> No i just think before I spend.
> 
> Neither AMD or Nvidia is paying. I owe my wallet respect.


pity that you only think before you spend, but not think before you post. maybe then you would have figured yourself that I meant the quality of your posts and not your graphic cards decision.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> pity that you only think before you spend, but not think before you post. maybe then you would have figured yourself that I meant the quality of your posts and not your graphic cards decision.


And please tell me what have you contributed to this thread. Enlighten us, oh master of quality posting since 2004.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Price/Performance is good, but not worth it losing Physx, Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, G-Sync and acceptable temperatures/noise levels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geforce experience? For real? Thats a valid reason? This forum quality goes down every minute
Click to expand...

they like their bullet points, talking as if reading it right off a pamphlet lol. going AMD is not worth losing closed ecosystem gimmicks and monitor upgrades that come at an additional cost might not even work with your monitor.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> Those temperatures..... definitely not for me.


same for me. if I see one of these (definitely not a reference cooler) running at 72c or lower at load then I'll be interested, but I like the 780.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> I've now got 290 Pro beating X, Titan and 780 HOF (1310MHz) in all the benchmarks I ran with Asus BIOS. EPIC Card!
> 
> 
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551579&page=2
> 
> To the people impulse buying, I think I'd hold out for R9 290...
Click to expand...

sound advice. with only -9% shader power it is already a better value than the 290X, unless it has a different (worse quality) pcb and power delivery.


----------



## $ilent

Made a quick poll thread guys for your thoughts on the 290x here - http://www.overclock.net/t/1436726/poll-are-you-impressed-with-the-r9-290x/0_40

Multiple choice!


----------



## Kokin

It's similar to people buying the 7970/280X for $300 when you could get a 7950 for $200 (or even 2x 7950s for $400).


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> And please tell me what have you contributed to this thread. Enlighten us, oh master of quality posting since 2004.


just putting balance in the thread. when people badly want something they can overlook things fast and at first sight the 290X may be a great card, but if you thoroughly read reviews and watch videos like (



) you can also spot the disadvantages the card brings with it. I just pointed that out. I know you would have liked it more if I had said something like "omg this card is so good, it doesn't have any disadvantages it only does have advantages I buy 2. It is cheaper than Titan and better performance and wait for Mantle it gonna crush the world" .


----------



## skupples

LOL, the level of anger in this thread... I feel lock & cleanup inc.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551579&page=2
> 
> To the people impulse buying, I think I'd hold out for R9 290...


And the story of the X950 being within 10% of the X970 repeats itself again... For the... fourth generation in a row?









I'm gonna grab one of these used next year. Should be great for a sub-£350 Crossfire setup


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551579&page=2
> 
> To the people impulse buying, I think I'd hold out for R9 290...


Yeah, I am really interested in that card. I might just get one to play with.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

This has to be one thread that I kinda wish mods had full carte-blanche on the ban-hammer. So many ridiculously biased individuals in this thread from both sides that my head hurts. Some people really need to take a second and see what they wrote. This thread has essentially gone down the gutter.

Needs a lock and clean-up ASAP.


----------



## wstanci3

So, the consensus is in order for the 290x to fully shine, you need to water-cool. Hm...
Tiny Tim Logan said that we wont expect a release of third party coolers until 2014.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yeah, I am really interested in that card. I might just get one to play with.


I might get one depended on how it performs vs my 7970,


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> same for me. if I see one of these (definitely not a reference cooler) running at 72c or lower at load then I'll be interested, but I like the 780.


The fact that you are running a Haswell CPU, which came with a significant temperature increase over the previous generation, is outstanding irony.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> So, the consensus is in order for the 290x to fully shine, you need to water-cool. Hm...
> Tiny Tim Logan said that we wont expect a release of third party coolers until 2014.


yeah I noticed that too. It is pretty weird considering recent cards like the 780 had third party coolers at release dat. this card would be much better with windforce or DC2


----------



## ChronoBodi

note to self: no more $600> pricing for GPUs. -_-

At least we had the Titan for 8 months. hmph.


----------



## VSG

He also said the card would cost $700 initially. So if the price can change, why can't the availability of 3rd party coolers?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> The fact that you are running a Haswell CPU, which came with a significant temperature increase over the previous generation, is outstanding irony.


AMD should have really designed the cooler for better cooling performance though.

They say it is ok at 95c, but come on.....


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> LOL, the level of anger in this thread... I feel lock & cleanup inc.


Yup last few pages have been burning up. People just need to tone it down a notch or 2.


----------



## pokerapar88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this.... this was on my GELID air cooler before i modded it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/v8m2x/
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/5654604
> 
> 1075mv for 855mhz. (Stable 24/7)
> 1088mv for 885mhz (Stable 24/7)
> 1188mv for 920mhz.(Stable but not recommended)
> 1213mv for 950mhz. (not stable)


Wow... mi 7970 does 2800 more points in 3dmark with a very mild oc :/


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pokerapar88*
> 
> Wow... mi 7970 does 2800 more points in 3dmark with a very mild oc :/


Its 3dmark11 not fs.


----------



## nitrubbb

will 290/290x support HSA in 2014?

AMD is supposed to release HSA compatible GPU-s in 2014 but is it implemented software or hardware side?


----------



## Blackops_2

What'd I miss? been working all day...

290x is on par with Titan with issues on air. 290 is looking awesome IMO. But what's all the fuss about cleanup? I didn't read where I had left off it was like 20 pages


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> AMD should have really designed the cooler for better cooling performance though.
> 
> They say it is ok at 95c, but come on.....


I'm guessing they went for cheap as possible approach. People generally buy ref for water cooling anyway.

But expect a 20c drop in temps when custom aircoolers are out.


----------



## Kuivamaa

I have a particular person on my ignore list for months and you keep quoting him (and he is pissing everyone off heh) ,is there a way to make such a quote not appear?


----------



## majin662

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noobism*
> 
> Yup last few pages have been burning up. People just need to tone it down a notch or 2.


agreed. I love debates and great performance from either side, when it's objective as best as possible. The pros and the cons. Hopefully it does get a good sweeping and then everyone can go back to being a community of varying levels of enthusiast


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> yeah I noticed that too. It is pretty weird considering recent cards like the 780 had third party coolers at release dat. this card would be much better with windforce or DC2


I think that it was a poor decision to limit the release to only reference. Most users don't particularly enjoy a jet engine inside their room. It was smart, however, to support waterblocks day one for the thing, considering many will just put it under water.
I would have thrown money at them if they would of had DC2T or an HIS nonreference.
I guess they have low stock...?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> AMD should have really designed the cooler for better cooling performance though.
> 
> They say it is ok at 95c, but come on.....


Yeah. Nvidia said the same about the GTX470/480. But let me tell you, the card might have been okay, but my computer room... I would start sweating after a long gaming session. LOL


----------



## $ilent

Would it be possible to CF a 290x with a 290? Ive never done CF or SLI so dont know the requirements fully.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Would it be possible to CF a 290x with a 290? Ive never done CF or SLI so dont know the requirements fully.


Yep.


----------



## majin662

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I think that it was a poor decision to limit the release to only reference. Most users don't particularly enjoy a jet engine inside their room. It was smart, however, to support waterblocks day one for the thing, considering many will just put it under water.
> I would have thrown money at them if they would of had DC2T or an HIS nonreference.
> I guess they have low stock...?


I'm wondering if we'll see the usual add on premium for non reference coolers or if it will be even more since this is one hot card.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yeah. Nvidia said the same about the GTX470/480. But let me tell you, the card might have been okay, but my computer room... I would start sweating after a long gaming session. LOL


\

Thats what has me cautious about this card along with power consumption. While not a huge consideration for some every little bit of extra heat or extra power consumption is a little bit more value chopped off this otherwise awesome card. And while for some it's a non issue, once I have to start busting out the wallet to buy additional cooling to make my brand new other parts perform as they should from the get go, thats another chip taken away. Just observations/thoughts


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> So confident that you changed your sig and removed your pc specs 12:01am lol.
> 
> My 7970 is smooth btw. Where did you get your information from?


lol burrrrrn


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majin662*
> 
> I'm wondering if we'll see the usual add on premium for non reference coolers or if it will be even more since this is one hot card.


Well I don't think they are going to be more expensive. Guess the temperature will just still be quite high (maybe 80°) for third party cards like DCU2, Windforce, MSI etc.
I could be wrong and they bring totally new 3 slots design that are very cool, but that sounds unlikely.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majin662*
> 
> I'm wondering if we'll see the usual add on premium for non reference coolers or if it will be even more since this is one hot card.


Anyones guess I suppose. But I'm gonna hold out to see what the 290 looks like...Maybe a MSI Twin Frozr r290 for $449 that can hit 1200+core clock?????


----------



## wermad

Has this badboy taken any benchmark records yet? I'm sure some samples were given to pro benchers, ?


----------



## iatacs19

ASUS said their DCUII version will be released in the coming months:

http://rog.asus.com/267872013/graphics-cards-2/asus-r9-290x-graphics-card-launched/

I hope the custom PCBs and coolers will bring better noise/performance numbers.


----------



## Ukkooh

I heard a rumour that AMD made 290x run hot on purpose as a part of a deal made with EK.


----------



## majin662

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Well I don't think they are going to be more expensive. Guess the temperature will just still be quite high (maybe 80°) for third party cards like DCU2, Windforce, MSI etc.
> I could be wrong and they bring totally new 3 slots design that are very cool, but that sounds unlikely.


true, unlikely, but a perfect time for these board makers to introduce new cooling tech. Not quite as impressed if temps are still really high before OC and still have that non ref cooling premium


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iatacs19*
> 
> I hope the custom PCBs and coolers will bring better noise/performance numbers.


PCB no idea since AMD ones are usually pretty decent, as for the cooler, lowest hanging fruit ever.


----------



## .theMetal

what a beast of a card!

That temp though.... freaks me out. I get uncomfortable if my card hits 70c









I will be much more intrigued when they can get aftermarket cooling.

MSI 290x Lightning. nuff said.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> So, the consensus is in order for the 290x to fully shine, you need to water-cool. Hm...
> Tiny Tim Logan said that we wont expect a release of third party coolers until 2014.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iatacs19*
> 
> ASUS said their DCUII version will be released in the coming months:
> 
> http://rog.asus.com/267872013/graphics-cards-2/asus-r9-290x-graphics-card-launched/
> 
> I hope the custom PCBs and coolers will bring better noise/performance numbers.


Saphire rep said that there would be custom coolers in upcoming months so expect them to be here in 14 days from now and about 3 months max till full custom.


----------



## dir_d

If i had the money the cards to get would be two R9 290s with two water blocks. You wouldnt be able to come close to the value/performance ratio especially for 1440p+.


----------



## Final8ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gibbo;25174841*
> I've now got 290 Pro beating X, Titan and 780 HOF (1310MHz) in all the benchmarks I ran with Asus BIOS. EPIC Card!


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25174841&postcount=55


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> same for me. if I see one of these (definitely not a reference cooler) running at 72c or lower at load then I'll be interested, but I like the 780.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are running a Haswell CPU, which came with a significant temperature increase over the previous generation, is outstanding irony.
Click to expand...

my cpu doesn't heat my case or my house up.


----------



## majin662

joking of course (somewhat since it is inevitable) but perfect card for my future Mini- ITX build WHOOP WHOOP


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> my cpu doesn't heat my case or my house up.


I dont know why people believe temps=heat.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yep.


Do they not need to be exactly the same? I know they got same amount memory but thinking 290x has more shaders?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Has this badboy taken any benchmark records yet? I'm sure some samples were given to pro benchers, ?


Just the world 3dmark11 record.

http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*


seems like 290x is faster clock for clock
http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/rankings#start=0#interval=20


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Do they not need to be exactly the same? I know they got same amount memory but thinking 290x has more shaders?
> Just the world 3dmark11 record.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks


This no more CFX bridge reference is so genius


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> my cpu doesn't heat my case or my house up.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know why people believe temps=heat.
Click to expand...

you'd think people who have been around certain scenes long enough would learn a thing or two.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Do they not need to be exactly the same? I know they got same amount memory but thinking 290x has more shaders?
> Just the world 3dmark11 record.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks


World record within 12 hours of release. Does that usually happen?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> you'd think people who have been around certain scenes long enough would learn a thing or two.


The quality of this forum is excellent


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I heard a rumour that AMD made 290x run hot on purpose as a part of a deal made with EK.


I heard they consulted w/ GTX 480 cooling team


----------



## xzamples

here is an amateur question for you pros out there that i really want answered because i've always wanted to know so please dont insult because i am willing to learn









which are the features on here that are more important as far as GAMING goes?


----------



## zealord

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> here is an amateur question for you pros out there that i really want answered because i've always wanted to know so please dont insult because i am willing to learn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which are the features on here that are more important as far as GAMING goes?






clearly TrueAudio


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> World record within 12 hours of release. Does that usually happen?


They're given the cards early like the reviewers but are not allowed to publish these results until NDA is up. I'm sure a few weeks of prepping and testing was involved, or at least a few days tbh. You going for the world record, make sure you plan properly for it









It took the 3d11 records for quad gpu and 290X so far. Kewl beans


----------



## roleki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> you'd think people who have been around certain scenes long enough would learn a thing or two.


Heat from a GPU can definitely affect ambient room temperature. Ask anyone who owned a 470/480.


----------



## malmental

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> here is an amateur question for you pros out there that i really want answered because i've always wanted to know so please dont insult because i am willing to learn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which are the features on here that are more important as far as GAMING goes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clearly TrueAudio
Click to expand...


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> What did i said wrong? Rofl
> 
> Stupid trolls as always. I cant stand you anymore


1) Bias

2) Rude when someone (i.e. me, which you probably don't remember) asking for help on 7970s.

3) Overall rude to many members here.

And that isn't remotely trolling.


----------



## Ukkooh

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> here is an amateur question for you pros out there that i really want answered because i've always wanted to know so please dont insult because i am willing to learn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which are the features on here that are more important as far as GAMING goes?





I'd say it is the GPU.


----------



## TooBAMF

Any idea what kind of wattage needs to be dissipated at 1200MHz+? Constant clocks.


----------



## dubldwn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> Those temperatures..... definitely not for me.


Yeah this comes across as AMD jacking up the power, noise, and heat to be competitive. I just can't pull the trigger considering I'd want to set up a loop for this. Side grade for me at best anyway...my 780 clocks to 1097 stock. Looking forward to the WC 290X's on OCN, though.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> here is an amateur question for you pros out there that i really want answered because i've always wanted to know so please dont insult because i am willing to learn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which are the features on here that are more important as far as GAMING goes?


imo, stream processors, pixel fillrate, memory bandwidth, compute ability, texture fillrate, overclockability

Not all of those are in that table. Shoot me


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TooBAMF*
> 
> Any idea what kind of wattage needs to be dissipated at 1200MHz+? Constant clocks.


What voltage what temps?


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> here is an amateur question for you pros out there that i really want answered because i've always wanted to know so please dont insult because i am willing to learn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which are the features on here that are more important as far as GAMING goes?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> Heat from a GPU can definitely affect ambient room temperature. Ask anyone who owned a 470/480.


my point exactly. however, my *cpu*, that is cooled with a much better cooler and not glued onto a pcb with worse power circuitry than my motherboard doesn't heat up anything. high temps in real temp (during an IBT run, not playing BF3 for 2 minutes) =/= massive heat being dumped into my case and living area, which is sadly the case with hot running, large die gpus. I owned a 480 and used a 470 for a few months.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> They're given the cards early like the reviewers but are not allowed to publish these results until NDA is up. I'm sure a few weeks of prepping and testing was involved, or at least a few days tbh. You going for the world record, make sure you plan properly for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took the 3d11 records for quad gpu and 290X so far. Kewl beans


I guess that makes sense, I didn't figure that the guy useing LN2 had early review access. Otherwise, fabricating the LN2 blocks taht quick would be quite a feat!


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> Heat from a GPU can definitely affect ambient room temperature. Ask anyone who owned a 470/480.


Crossfire overclocked Tahiti owner here. Can confirm, my PC turn the room into a sweatbox regardless of ambient temps


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I dont know why people believe temps=heat.


But you feel temps. So 90C exhaust air is going to feel worse than a larger volume of 50C exhaust air. Hair dryers produce a lot more heat than a match, but which one do you want against your arm?

Might not make any difference in a closed room, but it'll make a difference blowing on your feet.


----------



## coachmark2

Holy crap.... I think it's AMD's Fermi....

While she does outperform the last generation by 10-15% (Titan/780/5870) it (Hawaii/Fermi) does so at a huge thermal penalty. This thing is an absolute power pig.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> But you feel temps. So 90C exhaust air is going to feel worse than a larger volume of 50C exhaust air. Hair dryers produce a lot more heat than a match, but which one do you want against your arm?


Yeah that completely different. But for example a 7970 on air 80C. a 7970 on water 30C. Same heat

The main difference is that on air you have a small area that gpu push out the air. Thats why you feel the heat. With a 360 rad you will not gonna feel the heat


----------



## thebski

I think people are freaking out about the 94C a little too much. Seems to me this was just AMD's attempt to have the card as quiet as possible. From what I've read, when OC'ed and OV'ed the card will still run at 94C, but the fan just ramps up. If I'm understanding correctly, even UBER mode will only take the fan to 55%, and their factory profiles are basically geared to run with the fan as low as possible given 94C operating temp. If you set manual curves and/or go beyond 55% it seems you could control temps much better.

This release is absolutely great for consumers in the GPU market. That much there is no question about.


----------



## coachmark2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> Heat from a GPU can definitely affect ambient room temperature. Ask anyone who owned a 470/480.


I've got two (480's). Love them, and they function as excellent space heaters.


----------



## MerkageTurk

did Linus reviewed the AMD card by using the way its meant to played games?

Edit: #Sarcasm


----------



## TooBAMF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> What voltage what temps?


I guess stock voltage and around 40C? It seems 1200MHz is possible on the 290X without unlocked voltage. I don't know what stock voltage is with these.

I'm curious what type of rad setup would be needed to cool these cards at the clocks people are expecting with water. They are interesting but I don't want to have to change cases. I've modded my PC-P80 to hold two 360mm rads and a 240mm.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> But you feel temps. So 90C exhaust air is going to feel worse than a larger volume of 50C exhaust air. Hair dryers produce a lot more heat than a match, but which one do you want against your arm?
> 
> Might not make any difference in a closed room, but it'll make a difference blowing on your feet.


The core registering 90c is not the same temp blowing out the case -.-


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Yeah that completely different. But for example a 7970 on air 80C. a 7970 on water 30C. Same heat


*If* you kept the power draw the same then yes, you are right. However in practice the cooler you can keep your card the less power it consumes. This is due to lower resistance of the copper circuitry at lower temperatures, and can be seen on the graph that maarten12100 posted earlier:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The core registering 90c is not the same temp blowing out the case -.-


I realize that, and I was using those numbers just for example's sake. I didn't realize I'd have to put a disclaimer on every post.

Nevertheless, higher core temps will equal higher exhasut air temps, even if the actual numbers are not the same.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think people are freaking out about the 94C a little too much. Seems to me this was just AMD's attempt to have the card as quiet as possible. From what I've read, when OC'ed and OV'ed the card will still run at 94C, but the fan just ramps up.


This is exactly the case. They have been quoted as saying that this is just their standard setting, and that everything about the system is customizable. If you want the card to level out at 80, you can do so but the fan might kick up, or the clocks might get throttled. Its a very customizable process. I have a feeling that non-reference coolers are going to make this all irelevant though


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> I guess that makes sense, I didn't figure that the guy useing LN2 had early review access. Otherwise, fabricating the LN2 blocks taht quick would be quite a feat!


Yuppers









Both sides know how to market their products with the professional overclockers and benchers. Give them samples (and possibly to keep) and let them break records to show how far the product can go (to the extreme). Most of these cards are cherry picked from the best of the best to give the benchers the best possible shot for the records. Same thing happened with the Titan launch and a pro overclocker/bencher. Great PR and advertisement.

Its like car manufacturers pushing and touting their cars can go through the Nürburgring Nordschleife.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The core registering 90c is not the same temp blowing out the case -.-


No, but it does affect the temperature that is blowing out of the case (in this case, the GPU since it is a reference blower design). And that does affect ambient temperatures in your room, sometimes to some serious effect. Heat/energy has to go somewhere.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> *If* you kept the power draw the same then yes, you are right. However in practice the cooler you can keep your card the less power it consumes. This is due to lower resistance of the copper circuitry at lower temperatures, and can be seen on the graph that maarten12100 posted earlier:


Agreed absolute correct.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The core registering 90c is not the same temp blowing out the case -.-


shh... it's a secret.

no knock against forceman. you've been quite helpful in all the haswell threads so I'm sure you know the difference.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coachmark2*
> 
> ...This thing is an absolute power pig.


I know, right? Isn't it AWESOME?

Wait... was that not the right response?

Oh, and Power Pig is probably the best brand name for a GPU I've ever heard.


----------



## roleki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my point exactly. however, my *cpu*, that is cooled with a much better cooler and not glued onto a pcb with worse power circuitry than my motherboard doesn't heat up anything. high temps in real temp (during an IBT run, not playing BF3 for 2 minutes) =/= massive heat being dumped into my case and living area, which is sadly the case with hot running, large die gpus. I owned a 480 and used a 470 for a few months.


I agree, heat thrown off by a GPU is different than that dissipated by a tower cooler a la CPU. Someone made a remark that temps != heat which, in the case of GPU is completely false. It's relevant to *me* because I had 470s in SLI and I could heat my house with that setup, I'm talking running with the windows open in January in the Midwest. The 95C on the 290X won't be an issue to anyone until the custom cooler versions start coming out, at which time, people will wish they had waited a little longer.


----------



## DrFPS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> You going for the world record, make sure you plan properly for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took the 3d11 records for quad gpu and 290X so far. Kewl beans


Where are you getting your information from Link? Because according official mark3d11 Hall of Fame. No records have been broken,,,yet! Titan still on top.
http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/3dmark+11+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0.5

http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/3dmark+11+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0.5


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think people are freaking out about the 94C a little too much. Seems to me this was just AMD's attempt to have the card as quiet as possible. From what I've read, when OC'ed and OV'ed the card will still run at 94C, but the fan just ramps up. If I'm understanding correctly, even UBER mode will only take the fan to 55%, and their factory profiles are basically geared to run with the fan as low as possible given 94C operating temp. If you set manual curves and/or go beyond 55% it seems you could control temps much better.
> 
> This release is absolutely great for consumers in the GPU market. That much there is no question about.


Yeah, but that fan.... deal breaker right there.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The core registering 90c is not the same temp blowing out the case -.-


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> shh... it's a secret.
> 
> no knock against forceman. you've been quite helpful in all the haswell threads so I'm sure you know the difference.


I don't care what the temps exiting the case are, the room is going to heat up fast!


----------



## TooBAMF

Obviously people concerned about ambient heat don't think they are feeling 90C, otherwise a glass of water next to your PC would be near boiling and you would probably be dead.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrFPS*
> 
> Where are you getting your information from Link? Because according official mark3d11 Hall of Fame. No records have been broken,,,yet! Titan still on top.
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/3dmark+11+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0.5
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/3dmark+11+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0.5


http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks


----------



## Bartouille

At least you don't need a heater during winter with this card.







The cooler isn't the problem and aftermarket coolers won't magically fix this. Just take a look at the idle temps, 50C? What the hell? Man this card core is just way too packed. I believe AMD reference cooler isn't the best but no way an aftermarket cooler will fix this.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> Someone made a remark that temps != heat which, in the case of GPU is completely false.


No, in technical terms temperature is _never_ the same as heat. "Heat" is a measure of thermal power, and is given in watts. Saying temperature is the same as heat is like saying that speed is the same as mass.

A quick example:

A cigarette lighter will burn you but won't noticeably heat a room - high temperature, low heat.
A radiator won't burn you but will easily heat a room - low temperature, high heat

Although in this case the 290x does draw a lot of power, the temperature that the GPU core runs at is absolutely not an indicator of its power draw.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrFPS*
> 
> Where are you getting your information from Link? Because according official mark3d11 Hall of Fame. No records have been broken,,,yet! Titan still on top.
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/3dmark+11+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0.5
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/3dmark+11+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.0.5
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Just the world 3dmark11 record.
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks
Click to expand...

should have been more specific, records for HWBot


----------



## DrFPS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> http://hwbot.org/submission/2441980_smoke_3dmark11___performance_4x_radeon_r9_290x_41531_marks


Thst is HW bot







That's NOT mark3d 11 is it? No records have changes at mark3d11.

And that exactly what your original post claimed. It may only be a matter of time, but officially your still wrong!


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> I agree, heat thrown off by a GPU is different than that dissipated by a tower cooler a la CPU. Someone made a remark that temps != heat which, in the case of GPU is completely false. It's relevant to *me* because I had 470s in SLI and I could heat my house with that setup, I'm talking running with the windows open in January in the Midwest. The 95C on the 290X won't be an issue to anyone until the custom cooler versions start coming out, at which time, people will wish they had waited a little longer.


well this whole thing started when someone tried to be smart and suggest I was being "ironic" for not liking high gpu temps when I'm running a non-delidded haswell. thing is, my tiny cpu reading high temps *in a stress test*, not even during any type of gaming load or normal use, has heat output that is nothing close to that of big die gpus. my cpu in in a package, under a much better cooler and surrounded by better board (pcb) and circuitry. the gpu is glued onto a pcb that heats up with the core and has less effective cooler (much worse for the respective die size in this case). the heat output on a big gpu like Hawaii/GK110/GF100 etc is much more than a cpu and translates more directly to the amount and intensity of the heat you'll feel coming of it. not like the 290X is gonna die or anything, but the cooler sucks. it's inadequate and very loud. the heat output is still gonna be high, but at least I'd like the clock speeds to not have to throttle down because of temperatures. crazy how any thread can be derailed because someone makes an out of place remark that doesn't even make any sense to begin with.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Thst is HW bot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's NOT mark3d 11 is it? No records have changes at mark3d11.
> 
> And that exactly what your original post claimed. It may only be a matter of time, but officially your still wrong!


I'm sure submissions will or have been made to Futuremark







. HWBot is like the harcore overclocker and bencher site. I'm sure Futuremark will update soon. I believe they're not as quick as HWBot


----------



## TheLawIX

Results as expected, prices cheaper than expected. At that price I'll be buying X2 290X, hell maybe it's time for 3.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> Results as expected, prices cheaper than expected. At that price I'll be buying X2 290X, hell maybe it's time for 3.


I was like rcfc89 is here to hate then I read the post and I was like this isn't something that fanboy that can't build his own pc would say.
Then I read you profile's name and I was like that car picture had me fooled.

(guess I'm not the only one)


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I was like rcfc89 is here to hate then I read the post and I was like this isn't something that fanboy that can't build his own pc would say.
> Then I read you profile's name and I was like that car picture had me fooled.
> 
> (guess I'm not the only one)


.

How could you mistake a lancer for his high roller car? I forget how he put it.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TooBAMF*
> 
> Any idea what kind of wattage needs to be dissipated at 1200MHz+? Constant clocks.


The only data available is with the reference cooler, whatever curve you can produce with its results, it will likely change once you have a better cooler that drops temperatures by more than 20º C, the cooler it runs, the less leakage, the less voltage it will need to achieve a certain clockspeed, less wattage being used.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bartouille*
> 
> At least you don't need a heater during winter with this card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cooler isn't the problem and aftermarket coolers won't magically fix this. Just take a look at the idle temps, 50C? What the hell? Man this card core is just way too packed. I believe AMD reference cooler isn't the best but no way an aftermarket cooler will fix this.


The GTX 480 with an AXP is currently idling at 35º / 36º in my rig, it goes up to 61º during load, fan speed never goes above the idle 44%. With the reference cooler Anandtech got 51º C at idle and 94º C during Crysis.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/nvidia-s-geforce-gtx-480-and-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/19

It's practically the exact same scenario here. A good AXP-like open air cooler will do wonders.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think people are freaking out about the 94C a little too much. Seems to me this was just AMD's attempt to have the card as quiet as possible. From what I've read, when OC'ed and OV'ed the card will still run at 94C, but the fan just ramps up. If I'm understanding correctly, even UBER mode will only take the fan to 55%, and their factory profiles are basically geared to run with the fan as low as possible given 94C operating temp. If you set manual curves and/or go beyond 55% it seems you could control temps much better.
> 
> *This release is absolutely great for consumers in the GPU market. That much there is no question about*.


finally some one brings up the truly only important fact here. Has anyone seen multi-monitor benchmarks?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> .
> 
> How could you mistake a lancer for his high roller car? I forget how he put it.


I fail with cars and such not really something that interests me a lot.
The only car I know is the...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Levesque

Who cares about the R9 temps, seriously. A Titan running at 1300 with unlock BIOS is also producing crazy amount of heat and craving for power. LOL, who cares?

Just wait for modded BIOS and waterblocks for the R9. That card is a beast, and it wil OC like crazy. Remeber the Titan launch? The card was lock down like a virgin on prom night. The BIOS was godawful at launch.

Just wait for serious benchers to start modding the R9 and BIOS...


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> finally some one brings up the truly only important fact here. Has anyone seen multi-monitor benchmarks?


Tomshardware benched 3x1440p for all of their games. Its a trade off between the titan and 290x. The titan definitely makes use of that 6gb vram

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290x-hawaii-review,3650.html


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Who cares about the R9 temps, seriously. A Titan running at 1300 with unlock BIOS is also producing crazy amount of heat and craving for power. LOL, who cares?
> 
> Just wait for modded BIOS and waterblocks for the R9. That card is a beast, and it wil OC like crazy. Remeber the Titan launch? The card was lock down like a virgin on prom night. The BIOS was godawful at launch.
> 
> Just wait for serious benchers to start modding the R9 and BIOS...


Problem is this card hits its thermal targets at stock


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Problem is this card hits its thermal targets at stock


And to elaborate this even more AMD said 95 degrees Celsius is fine but then why is it throttling as hell instead of kicking up the fan a tad more.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> And to elaborate this even more AMD said 95 degrees Celsius is fine but then why is it throttling as hell instead of kicking up the fan a tad more.


Only on quiet mode. On uber mod the fans go up to 55%


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> And to elaborate this even more AMD said 95 degrees Celsius is fine but then why is it throttling as hell instead of kicking up the fan a tad more.


AMD needs to fix that. The 780 is actually a pretty fair value if its dropped to 549. it beats the 290x by 5-10% when both are overclocked to the max on air at 1080p( Withing the 55% max fan speed on the 290x ). The 290x will appeal to the people who don't know how to OC, the 780 may appeal to the Overclockers and mATX guys. The 780 Ti taking place of the Titan with a lower price


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> AMD needs to fix that. The 780 is actually a pretty fair value if its dropped to 549. it beats the 290x by 5-10% when both are overclocked to the max on air at 1080p( Withing the 55% max fan speed on the 290x ). The 290x will appeal to the people who don't know how to OC, the 780 may appeal to the Overclockers and mATX guys. The 780 Ti taking place of the Titan with a lower price


Now 780 beats the 290x when its oced by 5-10%? Rofl


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Now 780 beats the 290x when its oced by 5-10%? Rofl


No, when both are OC to the max the 780 beats it by 5-10%


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> No, when both are OC to the max the 780 beats it by 5-10%


Linus


----------



## RKTGX95

so hard to resist jumping on a cheap 7950 tri fire deal. And on the other hand so tempting to order a 290x







(curse you AMD)

though, i don't see the problem with the temps. The 290x is _The_ card to have in the winter


----------



## Tojara

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> No, when both are OC to the max the 780 beats it by 5-10%


Linus couldn't overclock a card even if someone showed him how to do it step by step.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I give my respects to PC Perspective because they truly know what they are doing and very neutral site.

To summarize thins. 290x takes the performance crown.

If its better then GTX780 or Titan as a card when you look at all other aspects i would say maybe not.

To me that top of line GPU should have performance as #1 priority.

People comparing GTX780 OC vs 290X OC from Linus Video should take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Linus


"_Especially as, with the current cooler, there is no extra performance to be had from overclocking, unlike the monster gains we see on the GTX780 when overclocked._"

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/amd_r9_290x_review/18

You seem like a huge baby making excuses


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I give my respects to PC Perspective because they truly know what they are doing and very neutral site.
> 
> To summarize thins. 290x takes the performance crown.
> 
> If its better then GTX780 or Titan as a card when you look at all other aspects i would say maybe not.
> 
> To me that top of line GPU should have performance as #1 priority.
> 
> People comparing GTX780 OC vs 290X OC from Linus Video should take it with a grain of salt.


Yep. We need OC vs OC numbers from quality members here at OCN.


----------



## BeepBeep

Surprised not many people are talking about driver maturity, it can only get better from here.

Unfortunately, NZ prices are gouged, no clue why, it's never happened before,

Current prices are $1,399NZD ($1,167 USD) for 1 R9 290X :/ I hope it's some form of error and they correct that absurd price.

Looks like i'll be importing.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> "_Especially as, with the current cooler, there is no extra performance to be had from overclocking, unlike the monster gains we see on the GTX780 when overclocked._"
> 
> http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/amd_r9_290x_review/18
> 
> You seem like a huge baby making excuses


You know that this card throttling even on stock settings right?


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tojara*
> 
> Linus couldn't overclock a card even if someone showed him how to do it step by step.


How did they overclock the 780 then.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> How did they overclock the 780 then.


Its too easy to OC GTX780







.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Only on quiet mode. On uber mod the fans go up to 55%


55% is too dam low we need full speed 100% (though AMD will like 85% more as true 100% will break your eardrum probably)


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> 55% is too dam low we need *Non reference models*


FTFY


----------



## amd655

*GTX 480 just got scared*


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> "_Especially as, with the current cooler, there is no extra performance to be had from overclocking, unlike the monster gains we see on the GTX780 when overclocked._"
> 
> http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/amd_r9_290x_review/18
> 
> You seem like a huge baby making excuses


Did they not have the 290x at 1200core clock on air on OCuk or was that water?


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> You know that this card throttling even on stock settings right?


Which is my point, this card cannot be overclocked with a stock cooler


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> AMD needs to fix that. The 780 is actually a pretty fair value if its dropped to 549. it beats the 290x by 5-10% when both are overclocked to the max on air at 1080p( Withing the 55% max fan speed on the 290x ). The 290x will appeal to the people who don't know how to OC, the 780 may appeal to the Overclockers and mATX guys. The 780 Ti taking place of the Titan with a lower price


http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/rankings#start=0#interval=20#cores=4

290x is ALREADY crushing Titan and 780 with early drivers


----------



## PureBlackFire

why did they even bother with a reference design ugh...


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Did they not have the 290x at 1200core clock on air on OCuk or was that water?


Someone said air @ 100% fan speed but I never saw the post. Water seems alot more likely since it was voltage unlocked and other reviews say increasing the voltage buy even .005v throttles it.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> FTFY


Im not even mad, thats impressive


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Which is my point, this card cannot be overclocked with a stock cooler


Then how you can compared an oced 290x and an oced 780 if the 290 cant even mantain 1000 mhz? Most of the times its around 900


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Which is my point, this card cannot be overclocked with a stock cooler


Honestly man, give it up. You know for a fact that this card is going to smoke the 780. We already see that it is clock for clock better than Titan...what gives bro? There is word too that the 290 pro will smoke a titan. So we will see.


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> why did they even bother with a reference design ugh...


Wouldn;t be bad if they allowed non reference cards to launch same day


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> FTFY
> 
> 
> Spoiler: video


Seems familiar probably sounds like a 5870 before installing the Catalyst driver. (Plane ready for take off!)
I would like myself a non reference pcb and cooler that cooler seems the most important for now though.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Problem is this card hits its thermal targets at stock


Incorrect. The Card hits its thermal limits if you don't change the fan speed manually.


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Incorrect. The Card hits its thermal limits if you don't change the fan speed manually.


The card sounds like a jet at 55%. Thats not practical for most people. And it downclocked it the techpowerup review at stock settings. Pushing the card over 55% is louder then any other gpu

Also I have a question. Only way to switch Bios' is to literally flip the switch. Kind of stupid to not be a boost mode like the nvidia series. Also is the Fan speed locked or can you change it?


----------



## Dynamo11

Such a shame we won't get some decent 3rd party cards for a few months. I think if we had an ASUS Direct CU II or a Gigabyte Windforce then the R9 290x could really show off its overclocking pedigree. Can't wait to see what you guys on OCN will do with the water blocks though


----------



## TheLawIX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> .
> 
> How could you mistake a lancer for his high roller car? I forget how he put it.


Really want to put down my 600HP Evo? It's been sold for the last 3 years. I daily a Jeep SRT 8 and replaced my Evo with a 2012 GTR. That "high roller" enough for you bud?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quite mode is pretty quite in my opinion. HD 7970 is as loud as this card if not more if left under normal fan curve.

So 290X have CFX working with 4K and Eyefinity but still no DX9.

All i can say if you want to go 4K you wan 290X. Is performance is much better in fps then GTX780.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Incorrect. The Card hits its thermal limits if you don't change the fan speed manually.


Let's give them something. Literally the only thing deal-breaking about this card is the reference cooler, the silicon itself is amazing and will fly under water or on custom cards. So we need to say "you're right, but that'll be a non-issue fairly soon" or we'll end up having "noise blahblah temps blahblah" being used as valid reasons to hate on the entire 290 series.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> The card sounds like a jet at 55%. Thats not practical for most people. And it downclocked it the techpowerup review at stock settings. Pushing the card over 55% is louder then any other gpu
> 
> Also I have a question. Only way to switch Bios' is to literally flip the switch. Kind of stupid to not be a boost mode like the nvidia series. Also is the Fan speed locked or can you change it?


You're going to really use the "The card is loud over 55%" excuse to justify buying a 780 or titan over it?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Who cares about the R9 temps, seriously. A Titan running at 1300 with unlock BIOS is also producing crazy amount of heat and craving for power. LOL, who cares?
> 
> Just wait for modded BIOS and waterblocks for the R9. That card is a beast, and it wil OC like crazy. Remeber the Titan launch? The card was lock down like a virgin on prom night. The BIOS was godawful at launch.
> 
> Just wait for serious benchers to start modding the R9 and BIOS...


I agree.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> You're going to really use the "The card is loud over 55%" excuse to justify buying a 780 or titan over it?


Then with the difference you buy a block and the 290x is way quieter and cooler


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yep. We need OC vs OC numbers from quality members here at OCN.


Not many of those left.


----------



## Stay Puft

Pulled from OC.UK.. Gibbo's 1200 core / 1600 mem results

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25171654&postcount=70


----------



## maneil99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> You're going to really use the "The card is loud over 55%" excuse to justify buying a 780 or titan over it?


nobody should be buying any of the cards at the moment. I am saying a 780 will be worth it if it is dropped down to 549$ over a 290x due to Overclock headroom. However if you are looking at 4k the 290x should get the nod


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> Really want to put down my 600HP Evo? It's been sold for the last 3 years. I daily a Jeep SRT 8 and replaced my Evo with a 2012 GTR. That "high roller" enough for you bud?


The joke was not on him, or you. You would have to have seen a conversation weeks ago to get the *comedy gold*


----------



## Moragg

How on Earth did he manage that... bet it throttled, and badly, on the reference cooler, even at 100%.


----------



## wermad

Any rumors on a Lightning? Hoping it has three dp


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Pulled from OC.UK.. Gibbo's 1200 core / 1600 mem results
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25171654&postcount=70


I'm still having problems with why the Unigine benches are so low in comparison to the 3dmark benches. I stated that his graphics score in 3dmark was ~600 points higher than mine, but assuming the same clocks I could put up 3500+ in Valley or so.


----------



## boot318

You can pay more, but you won't get more!


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> nobody should be buying any of the cards at the moment.


Some of us aren't scared of an itty bitty loud reference fan








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> I'm still having problems with why the Unigine benches are so low in comparison to the 3dmark benches. I stated that his graphics score in 3dmark was ~600 points higher than mine, but assuming the same clocks I could put up 3500+ in Valley or so.


nate i havent spoken to him personally but im going to assume the card is throttling at 1200 core and downclocking


----------



## Dynamo11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Any rumors on a Lightning? Hoping it has three dp


I'd expect the full works from most AIBs... just not until the new year


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Some of us aren't scared of an itty bitty loud reference fan


Someone likes a hot quad stacker







with beacon.


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Some of us aren't scared of an itty bitty loud reference fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nate i havent spoken to him personally but im going to assume the card is throttling at 1200 core and downclocking


You're probably correct, if you consdier that 3dmark is relatively short scenes while Valley and Heaven are decently long, that's a good assumption.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Weird Unigine scores considering the 3dmark scores. My Titan gets 87FPS in Valley at those settings at 1300MHz / 3738MHz..


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Who cares about the R9 temps, seriously. A Titan running at 1300 with unlock BIOS is also producing crazy amount of heat and craving for power. LOL, who cares?
> 
> Just wait for modded BIOS and waterblocks for the R9. That card is a beast, and it wil OC like crazy. Remeber the Titan launch? The card was lock down like a virgin on prom night. The BIOS was godawful at launch.
> 
> Just wait for serious benchers to start modding the R9 and BIOS...


capital LOL points to the person in the mirror caring... this is the first GPU to run this hot @ stock since Fermi. When fermi was doing it people pooped bricks for weeks & accused nvidia of burning peoples houses down. Is what it is. You can't really compare the thermal properties of Hawaii & GK110 without tossing all other things out the window. Hopefully it's designed to run this hot & won't burn peoples houses down.


----------



## BusterOddo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 290x on its way here, also have a titan arriving in a couple hours, ill leave it on stock air so i can test the 290x vs titan on air and water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someone start an friendly overclocking thread 290/290x vs 780/titan like the valley thread or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im excited to see what this card can do in person, ive been waiting a long time lol.


+ rep for this. I will be looking forward to your results, and the tread is a good idea.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BusterOddo*
> 
> + rep for this. I will be looking forward to your results, and the tread is a good idea.


newest titan arrived today, leaving it on stock bios/cooling for now so i can properly test it vs the 290x in all types of configurations.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> The card sounds like a jet at 55%. Thats not practical for most people. And it downclocked it the techpowerup review at stock settings. Pushing the card over 55% is louder then any other gpu
> 
> Also I have a question. Only way to switch Bios' is to literally flip the switch. Kind of stupid to not be a boost mode like the nvidia series. Also is the Fan speed locked or can you change it?


100% fan speed wasn't done b/c it's practical, it is done to show OC potential (which will be shown with better cooling)


----------



## wermad

Any one have some reasonable opinion for 1440 Eyefinity? I want to go 5x1 Eyefinity 1200 and pixel count is close to 1440/1600 Eyefinity. Pacing from the toms review is reasonable in crossfire. Only heard opinions that the crossfire via pcie may have a negative impact at this extreme resolution.


----------



## Biorganic

I am pretty impressed with the performance of the 290x but, as others have said, I am not a huge fan of 95 C. I would love to get a custom loop going and see what these volcanic islands can do, however, I really do not have the funds to allocate currently.

If I run into a situation where my lone 7950 is not enough then I will CF with the one from my second rig. I really haven't been gaming that often lately anyhow. I will most likely wait till 20nm to upgrade.

I have to commend AMD for taking it to Nv in the high end, the competition really benefits everyone. and I cannot wait to see the 290 as well as how the X does under H2O


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Any one have some reasonable opinion for 1440 Eyefinity? I want to go 5x1 Eyefinity 1200 and pixel count is close to 1440/1600 Eyefinity. Pacing from the toms review is reasonable in crossfire. Only heard opinions that the crossfire via pcie may have a negative impact at this extreme resolution.


Crossfire Eyefinity is still broken AFAIK.

Edit: It's only broken in some games, You'll probably be okay if you avoid DX9 games.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> newest titan arrived today, leaving it on stock bios/cooling for now so i can properly test it vs the 290x in all types of configurations.


Can't wait for this, would love more first hand impressions and reviews!


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Any rumors on a Lightning? Hoping it has three dp


Second this


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Any one have some reasonable opinion for 1440 Eyefinity? I want to go 5x1 Eyefinity 1200 and pixel count is close to 1440/1600 Eyefinity. Pacing from the toms review is reasonable in crossfire. Only heard opinions that the crossfire via pcie may have a negative impact at this extreme resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> Crossfire eyefinity is still broken afaik.
Click to expand...

I thought they fixed it with the hardware frame pacing? At least that's what one of the crossfire reviews said iirc.

Crossfire via PCI-E will only cause problems depending on what speeds you run the PCI-E slots at and how many cards you are crossfiring, as well as the resolution you play at.


----------



## anticommon

I'm just curious to see if the 290x overclocked - even on water- can beat the 79.9 fps I get in unigine valley extreme hd settings on air. I just fear that the 290x doesn't have the headroom.


----------



## CCast88

I'm glad I was right about the price. I said it was going to be between $500-$550 and people called me stupid and said "AMD won't price a card with the same performance as the titan for less than $700" And I told everyone that NVidia charges those prices because consumers allow them too and I told everyone that no GPU is worth that price and people said that I have a light wallet and I was only mad because I couldn't afford such a card (Although true that I wouldn't dish out that kind of money for a video card). I guess that i'm just relieved that I was right. $500 would have been a better price but hey 550 isn't bad at all.

I Predict the R9 290 will come in at $400-450 and will be about 5-11% slower than its daddy.


----------



## cloudzeng

The only thing that people are still complaining about the R9 290X is that it's 6-8 months late, consumes to much power, and is to how, and Nvidia is going to price drop which hasn't happened yet, either Nvidia is playing it cool or they will announce the price drop soon. Nvidia should really be releasing the 780Ti soon before people buy the R9 290x.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghost12*
> 
> This is a copy pasted post from a thread on OCuk, by one of the main OCuk staff who is well in the know regards these releases. I found it interesting, so may some of you. Was in reference to the internet reviews seen so far, especially Linus and Logan. For reference 8 pack the Uk bencher has a volt mod bios for the weekend for the 290x also.
> 
> The post
> 
> Reviewers.......
> 
> The card runs at 1000MHz always, no problem, not once did I see core speed drop off, it will only throttle if it exceeds 95c, which even in quiet mode is rare.
> 
> I am running one at 1200MHz core and 6600MHz on stock cooler, it wipes the floor now with a GTX 780 running at 1310Mhz core and 6800MHz on a custom design card with uprated cooler.
> 
> Its a great card, as drivers mature it will get faster and custom designs / coolers will make it faster still.
> 
> Even more impressive is the yet to be released baby R290, it overclocks to a point where it also beats a 1300MHz GTX 780 quite easily, that is even cheaper.
> 
> I sell them all, but AMD got a great product on their hands which will only get better.
> 
> GTX 780 needs to drop to £399 Inc. and new 780Ti needs to be £499, come on NVIDIA, DO IT, DO IT NOW!!!!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I thought they fixed it with the hardware frame pacing? At least that's what one of the crossfire reviews said iirc.
> 
> Crossfire via PCI-E will only cause problems depending on what speeds you run the PCI-E slots at and how many cards you are crossfiring, as well as the resolution you play at.


It appears they fixed it for some games, but dx9 games are still broken: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing/Skyrim


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> Results as expected, prices cheaper than expected. At that price I'll be buying X2 290X, hell maybe it's time for 3.


Don't forget your bling.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anticommon*
> 
> I'm just curious to see if the 290x overclocked - even on water- can beat the 79.9 fps I get in unigine valley extreme hd settings on air. I just fear that the 290x doesn't have the headroom.


If someone has it at 1200 on the reference cooler why do you think over that would be impossible on water?


----------



## GTR Mclaren

I love it

some years ago, when GTX 480 was doing 100c and making jet planes silent, Nividia fans: does not matter !!!

Now its all that matters xD

Same for the AMD fans, that cooler is a failure, the 290x IS a better card than the 780, and cheaper, but they need to sell custom cooler cards like NOW


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> If someone has it at 1200 on the reference cooler why do you think over that would be impossible on water?


I know you're getting 4 of them, but even you have to admit 1200 on core is likely unsustainable at load on the ref. cooler, even at 100% fan speed.

But if you're trying to point out the card has lots of overclocking headroom then yes, I agree.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I know you're getting 4 of them, but even you have to admit 1200 on core is likely unsustainable at load on the ref. cooler, even at 100% fan speed.
> 
> But if you're trying to point out the card has lots of overclocking headroom then yes, I agree.


I dont have any in my possession yet so i have no idea whats possible right now.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I know you're getting 4 of them, but even you have to admit 1200 on core is likely unsustainable at load on the ref. cooler, even at 100% fan speed.
> 
> But if you're trying to point out the card has lots of overclocking headroom then yes, I agree.


In fairness, you would have to be clinically insane to Quad fire with air.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> In fairness, you would have to be clinically insane to Quad fire with air.


Exactly. Cards are coming in and getting stripped and prepped for blocks.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Crossfire Eyefinity is still broken AFAIK.
> 
> Edit: It's only broken in some games, You'll probably be okay if you avoid DX9 games.


Yup, I'm still aware of it but the review showed some improvement in crossfire. I guess I should wait for the triple and quad reviews (most likely from enthusiast) to explore. Hopefully after the Eyefinity pacing patch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I thought they fixed it with the hardware frame pacing? At least that's what one of the crossfire reviews said iirc.
> 
> Crossfire via PCI-E will only cause problems depending on what speeds you run the PCI-E slots at and how many cards you are crossfiring, as well as the resolution you play at.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> It appears they fixed it for some games, but dx9 games are still broken: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing/Skyrim
Click to expand...

Crossfire on a single screen was fixed in the July/August driver. But eyefinity is still borked. Pcper made (or ppl made) waves when they pointed this out after 290X was announced. Since 4k is actually running in split screen, it may skew 4k results as well. Unless Amd has a beta patch they or the reviewers ran.

The tom's review shows a pretty good improvement vs Tahiti crossfire. And they do mentioned its almost as good as sli nvidia, though its still within a respectable range. The patch may just make it almost like Nvidia.

Such a hard decision, the longer I wait, the less money I can get for my 780s. I would wait for the Lightning with (hopefully) three dp if I go amd to run 5x1 w/ one hub (other wise I have to buy two MST hubs). Wish I could find Titans cheap since my blocks are Titan blocks







. Nvidia, why you no give us 5x1 Surround or 4-way 780 (officially)


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> well this whole thing started when someone tried to be smart and suggest I was being "ironic" for not liking high gpu temps when I'm running a non-delidded haswell. thing is, my tiny cpu reading high temps *in a stress test*, not even during any type of gaming load or normal use, has heat output that is nothing close to that of big die gpus. my cpu in in a package, under a much better cooler and surrounded by better board (pcb) and circuitry. the gpu is glued onto a pcb that heats up with the core and has less effective cooler (much worse for the respective die size in this case). the heat output on a big gpu like Hawaii/GK110/GF100 etc is much more than a cpu and translates more directly to the amount and intensity of the heat you'll feel coming of it. not like the 290X is gonna die or anything, but the cooler sucks. it's inadequate and very loud. the heat output is still gonna be high, but at least I'd like the clock speeds to not have to throttle down because of temperatures. crazy how any thread can be derailed because someone makes an out of place remark that doesn't even make any sense to begin with.


It must have either went completely over your head or you are trying to ignore it.


----------



## Final8ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dom99;25177363*
> Just bought one for £388! That's a good deal to me!


Anyone know what UK retailer that could be from ?


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Final8ty*
> 
> Anyone know what UK retailer that could be from ?


Sounds like the ex-VAT price to me.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I dont have any in my possession yet so i have no idea whats possible right now.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Exactly. Cards are coming in and getting stripped and prepped for blocks.


Please do some benches on air for one of them, I'll be impressed if 100% fan speed is enough to prevent throttling at 1200MHz core load.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> In fairness, you would have to be clinically insane to Quad fire with air.


True. I'd extend that to say running a 290X/290 with the reference cooler is pretty stupid on it's own, let alone in CFX.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Yup, I'm still aware of it but the review showed some improvement in crossfire. I guess I should wait for the triple and quad reviews (most likely from enthusiast) to explore. Hopefully after the Eyefinity pacing patch.
> Crossfire on a single screen was fixed in the July/August driver. But eyefinity is still borked. Pcper made (or ppl made) waves when they pointed this out after 290X was announced. Since 4k is actually running in split screen, it may skew 4k results as well. Unless Amd has a beta patch they or the reviewers ran.
> 
> *The tom's review shows a pretty good improvement vs Tahiti crossfire. And they do mentioned its almost as good as sli nvidia, though its still within a respectable range. The patch may just make it almost like Nvidia.*
> 
> Such a hard decision, the longer I wait, the less money I can get for my 780s. I would wait for the Lightning with (hopefully) three dp if I go amd to run 5x1 w/ one adapter (other wise I have to buy two MST hubs). Wish I could find Titans cheap since my blocks are Titan blocks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . But Nvidia, why you no give us 5x1 Surround or 4-way 780 (officially)


Tahiti has better CF scaling then any current Nvidia card is SLI.
CF has scaled better then SLI for years.....

Personally this improved CF is quite impressive when no one was really expecting a improvement in CF scaling at all.

Though for anyone that already has a gtx780, wait for the price drops to get a second. No point in selling for a 290x, unless your trying to make some money back while getting a boost in performance.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yeah, but that fan.... deal breaker right there.


That could be true. If the fan is just stupid loud then it's just going to be unfeasible for many people to control temps that way, so the likely other way is lost performance. I don't really consider a water cooling upgrade as an option if users don't already have it because then it's no longer a $549 card. That said, I really question how loud 55% will end up being. OC3D's video review held the camera to the fan and it wasn't that loud at 55%, to me. This is coming from a guy who didn't mind sitting next to 680 Classy fans pegged at 100%, though.









Really, we're all just speculating right now anyways on what we actually care about, which is OC vs OC. You, I, and most others in here aren't really going to see what we want until users on here start posting results.

Either way though, as I said, great deal for the consumers in the GPU market. I am perfectly fine with seeing a super hot and power hungry chip from AMD this round as long as the performance is there. It's very similar to what nVidia brought with early Fermi cards, and look where they have come from GF100 to GK110. If this is AMD's starting point and they can follow a similar path that nVidia has followed in getting power and temps under control while maintaining performance, then that will be incredible for fans of both colors.

IMO, the release of the 290X is a big turning point in the GPU industry. No question nVidia is just ahead right now in terms of development. AMD is bringing virtually equal but much less refined performance (heat and power) several months after nVidia. That's ok with me for two reasons. The first is what I outlined above. It appears to me they are headed in the right direction to compete with nVidia. Now that nVidia has the big die but still impressive power and thermals down pat, that's really the only way AMD was going to remain competitive. And it looks to me that's where they're attempting to go with this GPU. Next step should be to get power and thermals under control. Second reason is that they're finally going to start getting good cash flow from all the consoles, so they may actually have the means to continue the development at a rapid rate. Lastly, they saved us all when they chose to price this thing where we're all used to a high end card being priced. I don't think I really need to elaborate much more than that on that point. It would have sucked for everyone if they chose otherwise.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Please do some benches on air for one of them, I'll be impressed if 100% fan speed is enough to prevent throttling at 1200MHz core load.
> 
> True. I'd extend that to say *running a 290X/290 with the reference cooler is pretty stupid on it's own, let alone in CFX.*


Can't disagree.


----------



## Final8ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> Sounds like the ex-VAT price to me.


http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/msi-r9-290x-388-28-dabs-1689718

£418.28


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yeah, but that fan.... deal breaker right there.
> 
> 
> 
> That could be true. *If the fan is just stupid loud* then it's just going to be unfeasible for many people to control temps that way, so the likely other way is lost performance. I don't really consider a water cooling upgrade as an option if users don't already have it because then it's no longer a $549 card.
Click to expand...

No ifs about it. It is very, very loud - I think at 100% it was well over 60dBa which even Deltas don't reach.


----------



## SandGlass

Crap, I hate it when reviews come out and then they substantially change it. There was an article that went really in depth about the new CF technology, saying it now allowed a card to request resources before it needed it, which article is it?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> No ifs about it. It is very, very loud - I think at 100% it was well over 60dBa which even Deltas don't reach.


GTX 480 cooler uses a Delta fan....................


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudzeng*
> 
> The only thing that people are still complaining about the R9 290X is that it's 6-8 months late, consumes to much power, and is to how, and Nvidia is going to price drop which hasn't happened yet, either Nvidia is playing it cool or they will announce the price drop soon. Nvidia should really be releasing the 780Ti soon before people buy the R9 290x.


How can the R9 be too late? Battlefield doesn't start for another week...


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> No ifs about it. It is very, very loud - I think at 100% it was well over 60dBa which even Deltas don't reach.


I'm sure it's loud at 100%, but I was talking in the context of the tradeoff between fan speed and performance. If 100% is required to maintain a decent OC, then that will definitely be a problem for many people. If you can get by with 70%, it may not be so bad.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I perceive much of the heating issues to be conservative fan settings, not so much as indicative of the ability, or lack of, to squeeze higher performance out of the card. I haven't had my hands on one though, so I can't say for sure.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Final8ty*
> 
> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/msi-r9-290x-388-28-dabs-1689718
> 
> £418.28


That certainly is a hot deal.

Edit: And the coupon code works too (you have to go through the checkout to apply it).


----------



## coachmark2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anandtech*
> Finally, as we asked in the title, was it worth the wait? No, probably not. A 15% faster single-GPU card is appreciated and we're excited to see both AMD and NVIDIA once again on competitive footing with each other, but otherwise with much of Hawaii's enhanced abilities still untapped, we're going to be waiting far longer for a proper resolution anyhow. For now we're just happy to finally have Hawaii, so that we can move on to the next step.
> 
> Meanwhile let's talk about the other factors: price, power, and noise. At $500 the 290X is the world's fastest single-GPU card, but it's not a value proposition. The price gap between it and the GTX 780 after the impending price drop is well above the current performance gap, but this has always been true about the high-end. Bigger than price though is the tradeoff for going with the 290X and its much bigger GPU - it's hotter, it's noisier, and it's more power hungry, all for 10-15% more performance. If you need the fastest thing you can get then the choice is clear, otherwise you'll have some thinking to decide what you want and what you're willing to live with in return.


I agree with this statement from Anand.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



This is a SLIGHTLY modified excerpt from the GTX 480 review found here....







Amazing how similar this situation is to then. AMD has released a Fermi of their own.


----------



## sydas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coachmark2*
> 
> I agree with this statement from Anand.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> This is a SLIGHTLY modified excerpt from the GTX 480 review found here....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing how similar this situation is to then. AMD has released a Fermi of their own.


lol the egg cookin days of fermi ! good days !


----------



## szeged

newest titan is shaping up to be a pretty good overclocker, i hope my 290x is equally as good, if not better. personally im hoping for a golden one







ive only gotten golden cpus, never been lucky with gpus except one of my 7970s.

new titan can do 1189/3804 on air on stock bios. doubt it will do 1202 core though, thats always been a hard mark for stock titan bios to hit.

heres to you 290x, please be a good overclocker


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> That could be true. If the fan is just stupid loud then it's just going to be unfeasible for many people to control temps that way, so the likely other way is lost performance. I don't really consider a water cooling upgrade as an option if users don't already have it because then it's no longer a $549 card. That said, I really question how loud 55% will end up being. OC3D's video review held the camera to the fan and it wasn't that loud at 55%, to me. This is coming from a guy who didn't mind sitting next to 680 Classy fans pegged at 100%, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really, we're all just speculating right now anyways on what we actually care about, which is OC vs OC. You, I, and most others in here aren't really going to see what we want until users on here start posting results.
> 
> Either way though, as I said, great deal for the consumers in the GPU market. I am perfectly fine with seeing a super hot and power hungry chip from AMD this round as long as the performance is there. It's very similar to what nVidia brought with early Fermi cards, and look where they have come from GF100 to GK110. If this is AMD's starting point and they can follow a similar path that nVidia has followed in getting power and temps under control while maintaining performance, then that will be incredible for fans of both colors.
> 
> *IMO, the release of the 290X is a big turning point in the GPU industry. No question nVidia is just ahead right now in terms of development.* AMD is bringing virtually equal but much less refined performance (heat and power) several months after nVidia. That's ok with me for two reasons. The first is what I outlined above. It appears to me they are headed in the right direction to compete with nVidia. Now that nVidia has the big die but still impressive power and thermals down pat, that's really the only way AMD was going to remain competitive. And it looks to me that's where they're attempting to go with this GPU. Next step should be to get power and thermals under control. Second reason is that they're finally going to start getting good cash flow from all the consoles, so they may actually have the means to continue the development at a rapid rate. Lastly, they saved us all when they chose to price this thing where we're all used to a high end card being priced. I don't think I really need to elaborate much more than that on that point. It would have sucked for everyone if they chose otherwise.


Have you seen the die area of hawaii? A good deal smaller then titan, and even uses less die space then the GTX780 theoretically would of the GK110 die.

Only reason why it is hot is your pushing nearly 30more watts at stock then a titan on a die with less surface area. Though Once you get into Max OC and start overvolting the Titan is gonna kill the 290x in terms of power usage, and in terms of heat being dumped into your room. The Titan can suck huge amounts of power while overclocked.

ATM AMD has the better architecture, If AMD made a die with the equal size of the titan It would literally destroy it. Maxwell should be closer to GCN in terms of performance per mm and scalability.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Have you seen the die area of hawaii? A good deal smaller then titan, and even uses less die space then the GTX780 theoretically would of the GK110 die.
> 
> Only reason why it is hot is your pushing nearly 30more watts at stock then a titan on a die with less surface area. Though Once you get into Max OC and start overvolting the Titan is gonna kill the 290x in terms of power usage, and in terms of heat being dumped into your room. The Titan can suck huge amounts of power while overclocked.
> 
> ATM AMD has the better architecture, If AMD made a die with the equal size of the titan It would literally destroy it. Maxwell should be closer to GCN in terms of performance per mm and scalability.


I have, and I realize it is still quite a bit smaller. Like I said, I just hope this is their starting point. If they can get power and temps under control and increase their die size to catch up to nVidia while maintaining good performance per mm, then good things are coming for all in the future. A few months ago I had much less hope for the outlook of the industry the way things seemed to be going.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> newest titan is shaping up to be a pretty good overclocker, i hope my 290x is equally as good, if not better. personally im hoping for a golden one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ive only gotten golden cpus, never been lucky with gpus except one of my 7970s.
> 
> new titan can do 1189/3804 on air on stock bios. doubt it will do 1202 core though, thats always been a hard mark for stock titan bios to hit.
> 
> heres to you 290x, please be a good overclocker


Szeged is a good role model for a titan owner. Others should follow him and embrace competition instead of sticking to their radical views and denying facts.


----------



## StreekG

Watched OC3D review last night. Not impressed








Really hoping that the non reference models change things up a bit, otherwise it will be SLI 780Ti for me.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Then how you can compared an oced 290x and an oced 780 if the 290 cant even mantain 1000 mhz? Most of the times its around 900


So we can't compare overclocked cards because AMD only released reference cards? That's on AMD. Maybe they shouldn't limit everyone to god-awful reference coolers if they don't want to get beat in overclocking results.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Have you seen the die area of hawaii? A good deal smaller then titan, and even uses less die space then the GTX780 theoretically would of the GK110 die.
> 
> Only reason why it is hot is your pushing nearly 30more watts at stock then a titan on a die with less surface area. Though Once you get into Max OC and start overvolting the Titan is gonna kill the 290x in terms of power usage, and in terms of heat being dumped into your room. The Titan can suck huge amounts of power while overclocked.
> 
> ATM AMD has the better architecture, If AMD made a die with the equal size of the titan It would literally destroy it. Maxwell should be closer to GCN in terms of performance per mm and scalability.


And if Nvidia re-did the GK110 chip now they could probably compress it down to a smaller size also, just like AMD did. That's AMD's advantage for releasing later - Nvidia's advantage in releasing earlier is that they have custom cards for sale. Now if they'd just drop the price $100 we'd have a real competition on our hands.


----------



## kingduqc

Anyone hot price on 290's non X and will crossfire be okay on this 



 power suply?


----------



## SeeThruHead

I have to say I'm really quite disappointed. I'm an Nvidia Guy through and through but I was seriously hoping for something great to create competition. No OC headroom on air cooling means that for the average air user and overclocked 780 is a better buy. Neither AMD or Nvidia have gotten cards capable of a good gaming experience at 2560x1440 (without SLI) and now they are talking about 4k... I hope the 780 ti beats the titan becomes the single GPU solution for 2560x1440. They keep making these cards that are overkill for 1080p and not good enough for 2560x1440, making their x70 offerings much more attractive for both 1080(single 770) and 2560(770 sli).


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I have, and I realize it is still quite a bit smaller. Like I said, I just hope this is their starting point. If they can get power and temps under control and increase their die size to catch up to nVidia while maintaining good performance per mm, then good things are coming for all in the future. A few months ago I had much less hope for the outlook of the industry the way things seemed to be going.


If AMD had a bigger die the power requirements would probably go down as AMD would be able to downclock GCN to a point where it uses a lot less power.

Reason why the Titan is low power is because the stock bios is setup for just that and low stock clocks keep the overall power consumption down. 290X is just pushed harder at stock.

Titan Will still use more power once mod the bios and start overclocking.

Temps will be fine on aftermarket cards, this is a ref card. Even the 7970/50 ref cards were loud and hot. And Lets not talk about my gtx470's ref cooler, though that 100% fan on 290x can't be topped.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> So we can't compare overclocked cards because AMD only released reference cards? That's on AMD. Maybe they shouldn't limit everyone to god-awful reference coolers if they don't want to get beat in overclocking results.
> *And if Nvidia re-did the GK110 chip now they could probably compress it down to a smaller size also, just like AMD did*. That's AMD's advantage for releasing later - Nvidia's advantage in releasing earlier is that they have custom cards for sale. Now if they'd just drop the price $100 we'd have a real competition on our hands.


Well considering we have seen nothing from Nvidia in terms of improving Kepler I would disagree. Maxwell would be the tech to compete against GCN in terms of performance per mm. Seems like Nvidia is weakening the cuda core power again, so a single cuda core will about equal to a GCN core or maybe slightly under now. What will allow them to pack more in a chip.


----------



## maarten12100

People keep ranting about the GTX480 but though the situation looks alike that isn't really how is.

The 480 had a oversized yet laserd down die with a enormous power draw already.
Next they had a cooler that couldn't keep it cool (even with the abundance of contact area) enough which made it consume even more power and run even hotter.
With the 580 this remained but they improved the cooler unlocked the extra cluster and adjusted the clocks a bit (and some tiny IPC improvements)

Here with the 290X we have a efficient die that has a incapable cooler but if the die was kept cold it wouldn't have a monster power draw.
Only thing we can conclude from this is that had the Hawaii core been as large as the 480 then it would've really been Fermi all over again but now with AMD.

A non reference cooler is easy to come by so it wont be really a problem unless the vendor is really big on warranty violations.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> I have to say I'm really quite disappointed. I'm an Nvidia Guy through and through but I was seriously hoping for something great to create competition. No OC headroom on air cooling means that for the average air user and overclocked 780 is a better buy. Neither AMD or Nvidia have gotten cards capable of a good gaming experience at 2560x1440 (without SLI) and now they are talking about 4k... I hope the 780 ti beats the titan becomes the single GPU solution for 2560x1440. They keep making these cards that are overkill for 1080p and not good enough for 2560x1440, making their x70 offerings much more attractive for both 1080(single 770) and 2560(770 sli).


Wishful thinking. The 780ti won't be the next coming, its going to be a slight improvement on the 780 we've known for months


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## TranquilTempest

The die area and performance is interesting, but the power usage is ******ed.

I don't want it, but I'm damn glad AMD made it.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Wishful thinking. The 780ti won't be the next coming, its going to be a slight improvement on the 780 we've known for months


The rumour floating around is the the 780ti could be faster than the titan at stock. Add a healthy OC and we might have 60FPS avg at 2560x1440.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> The guy spoke my mind about the cooler/aesthetics. The 290X looks terribly cheap beside the Titan/780/770.


Who cares? This card is for watercooling. Why would they spend more $ on an aluminum shrouded heatsink with vapor chambers when almost everyone buying a reference card is going to take the stock one off and and put a block on it.

Also the color scheme looks better imo. Enjoy your $450 air cooler.


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Have you seen the die area of hawaii? A good deal smaller then titan, and even uses less die space then the GTX780 theoretically would of the GK110 die.
> 
> Only reason why it is hot is your pushing nearly 30more watts at stock then a titan on a die with less surface area. Though Once you get into Max OC and start overvolting the Titan is gonna kill the 290x in terms of power usage, and in terms of heat being dumped into your room. The Titan can suck huge amounts of power while overclocked.
> 
> ATM AMD has the better architecture, If AMD made a die with the equal size of the titan It would literally destroy it. Maxwell should be closer to GCN in terms of performance per mm and scalability.


We don't know what voltage the 290x is running do we?

A Titan with custom bios at max OC with 1.212v (max without voltmods) doesn't reach 350 watts.

And better architecture? It consumes substantially more power to give virtually the same performance yet somehow it's better? I hope you're not serious.

If AMD made something the same size as Nvidia dies, power consumption would be through the roof.

The 290x is an awesome card and that's great for us the consumer. $549 is a killer deal for this card. But everything has flaws. Sugar coating them doesn't make them any less real.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Watercooling is a niche market within a niche market. The number of people running 290x with stock heatsink is going to be far greater than not.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> So we can't compare overclocked cards because AMD only released reference cards? That's on AMD. Maybe they shouldn't limit everyone to god-awful reference coolers if they don't want to get beat in overclocking results.
> And if Nvidia re-did the GK110 chip now they could probably compress it down to a smaller size also, just like AMD did. That's AMD's advantage for releasing later - Nvidia's advantage in releasing earlier is that they have custom cards for sale. Now if they'd just drop the price $100 we'd have a real competition on our hands.


No actually i disagree with the oc. You cant really say that both cards are oced because both are throttling. A lot worse on amd side. Linus said that the 290x is oced at 1100 something. Probably the card is throttling back to 1000 maybe lower. Thats my point


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I thought they fixed it with the hardware frame pacing? At least that's what one of the crossfire reviews said iirc.
> 
> Crossfire via PCI-E will only cause problems depending on what speeds you run the PCI-E slots at and how many cards you are crossfiring, as well as the resolution you play at.


we are talking about crossfire+eyefinity... so far the only person I have seen review it is Tom, and he was treated pretty poorly for expressing his genuine opinions on the matter.

Though, in theory it should be fixed w/ the "new" architecture, the main worry is that the fix will not be applied retroactively because some of it has to do with the actual hardware it's self & not just driver problems.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> We don't know what voltage the 290x is running do we?
> 
> A Titan with custom bios at max OC with 1.212v (max without voltmods) doesn't reach 350 watts.
> 
> *And better architecture? It consumes substantially more power to give virtually the same performance yet somehow it's better? I hope you're not serious.*
> 
> If AMD made something the same size as Nvidia dies, power consumption would be through the roof.
> 
> The 290x is an awesome card and that's great for us the consumer. $549 is a killer deal for this card. But everything has flaws. Sugar coating them doesn't make them any less real.


Again look at the die size.
Doing a lot more in a lot less space.









Also Titan can do 500+ watts while overclocked with the help of a modded bios. When it comes to Max OC this is what we are talking about. The 290x will probably trip OCP or throttle most likely when trying to pass 300watts.

Nvidia simply has better stock power usage. DEAL WITH IT


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> No actually i disagree with the oc. You cant really say that both cards are oced because both are throttling. A lot worse on amd side. Linus said that the 290x is oced at 1100 something. Probably the card is throttling back to 1000 maybe lower. Thats my point


But again, for a person who is buying the card to put in his machine as shipped (no custom cooler, no watercooling) the lack of overclocking headroom on the 290X is AMD's problem. Just because they shipped it with a cooler that sucks donkey's butts doesn't mean they get a free pass to not be compared to overclocked reference 780s. Yes, water results will be interesting, but not everyone wants to water cool or custom cool their cards (for warranty reasons if nothing else) so how can it not be fair to compare out of the box overclocking? Just because AMD fares poorly in that comparison right now?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> Watercooling is a niche market within a niche market. The number of people running 290x with stock heatsink is going to be far greater than not.


And the number of people overclocking with non-reference coolers will be much greater than those with stock. Because AMD actually allows custom coolers for their top card


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> The guy spoke my mind about the cooler/aesthetics. The 290X looks terribly cheap beside the Titan/780/770.
> 
> I really like the way they used a hardware switch for the cooling profiles though.


I don't buy video cards because the cooler looks nice


----------



## SoloCamo

I'm really confused...people are complaining about how loud this fan is yet it's a reference one which is only slightly higher than a 7970GE as is...

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-16.html

4dba isn't going to be THAT big of a difference


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> I'm really confused...people are complaining about how loud this fan is yet it's a reference one which is only slightly higher than a 7970GE as is...
> 
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-16.html
> 
> 4dba isn't going to be THAT big of a difference


Sound is increased by 2x for each decibel..........


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I just hope GTX780 Ti is more then just a GTX780 OC. Silly way to take #1. It like releasing 7970 GHz right after GTX680 launch.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> I'm really confused...people are complaining about how loud this fan is yet it's a reference one which is only slightly higher than a 7970GE as is...
> 
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-16.html
> 
> 4dba isn't going to be THAT big of a difference


3db increase is pretty noticeable
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Sound is increased by 2x for each decibel..........


Actually its Power is doubled for every 3db.

Though loudness is not, Though 3db is vary noticeable gain non the less.


----------



## delavan

Thermal imagery of the 290x under load...sorry it's in french, so look at the FLIR pic! I'll translate a little...

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/910-10/bruit-temperatures.html

From HARDWARE.FR



It says:

Gpu reaches 94 deg celsius, but PCB components don't suffer much from it, besides the vRAM VRMs that reach close to 100 deg celsius (98 deg).
GPU VRMs are well cooled, considering the enormous heat load that is generated by the card...

About noise, their call is the following:

QUIET: really noisy
UBER: unnaceptable


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> I'm really confused...people are complaining about how loud this fan is yet it's a reference one which is only slightly higher than a 7970GE as is...
> 
> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-16.html
> 
> 4dba isn't going to be THAT big of a difference


7970GE wasn't exactly quiet, and it's a logarithmic scale.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> And the number of people overclocking with non-reference coolers will be much greater than those with stock. Because AMD actually allows custom coolers for their top card


Apparently its a reference only launch right now. I dont think well see non reference coolers until 2014, by then the 780 OC cards (which isn't much more expensive) will have dropped price and the 780ti will be out. Yeah AMD allows custom coolers, but it would be nice if their reference only launch came with a capable cooler.


----------



## invincible20xx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> People keep ranting about the GTX480 but though the situation looks alike that isn't really how is.
> 
> The 480 had a oversized yet laserd down die with a enormous power draw already.
> Next they had a cooler that couldn't keep it cool (even with the abundance of contact area) enough which made it consume even more power and run even hotter.
> With the 580 this remained but they improved the cooler unlocked the extra cluster and adjusted the clocks a bit (and some tiny IPC improvements)
> 
> Here with the 290X we have a efficient die that has a incapable cooler but if the die was kept cold it wouldn't have a monster power draw.
> Only thing we can conclude from this is that had the Hawaii core been as large as the 480 then it would've really been Fermi all over again but now with AMD.
> 
> A non reference cooler is easy to come by so it wont be really a problem unless the vendor is really big on warranty violations.


wouldn't achieving 4k @ 120hz be kind of impossible now lol

even quad fire 290x might not cut it, no ?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Again look at the die size.
> Doing a lot more in a lot less space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also Titan can do 500+ watts while overclocked with the help of a modded bios. When it comes to Max OC this is what we are talking about. The 290x will probably trip OCP or throttle most likely when trying to pass 300watts.
> 
> Nvidia simply has better stock power usage. DEAL WITH IT


I am looking at the die size bud. Name one person that has ever bought a GPU based on die size.

Nobody cares about die size, everybody cares about performance and a decent amount care about power consumption.

Show me your proof where Titan consumes 500 watts on 1.212v please.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincible20xx*
> 
> wouldn't achieving 4k @ 120hz be kind of impossible now lol
> 
> even quad fire 290x might not cut it, no ?


It would be possible with a fair bit of settings turned down. But otherwise, no. There are threads detailing 4-way Titans running resolutions higher than 4K, in otherwords, a likely match to the GPU grunt needed for 120Hz 4K, and even 4 Titans doesn't even realistically allow for performance capable of 4K 120Hz. The 290X will be barely better, but honestly would be no different since they are so similar.


----------



## Lord Xeb

Hmm... Depending on if this works for my... rig (please, look at it closely to see what I mean) then I am going to buy it.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Again look at the die size.
> Doing a lot more in a lot less space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also Titan can do 500+ watts while overclocked with the help of a modded bios. When it comes to Max OC this is what we are talking about. The 290x will probably trip OCP or throttle most likely when trying to pass 300watts.
> 
> Nvidia simply has better stock power usage. DEAL WITH IT


Um, The card has only been out for not even 24 hours.... Time will tell. The modders/overclockers will try the same things with the 290x as they did with the titan.. Just dumb to say all that without it even being in anyones hands yet.. Well besides reviewers.


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> But again, for a person who is buying the card to put in his machine as shipped (no custom cooler, no watercooling) the lack of overclocking headroom on the 290X is AMD's problem. Just because they shipped it with a cooler that sucks donkey's butts doesn't mean they get a free pass to not be compared to overclocked reference 780s. Yes, water results will be interesting, but not everyone wants to water cool or custom cool their cards (for warranty reasons if nothing else) so how can it not be fair to compare out of the box overclocking? Just because AMD fares poorly in that comparison right now?


This average user is not going to be doing any overclocking if they aren't capable of moving the fan slider bar up. The improvement in FPS by just MOVING THE FAN SLIDER improves performance by a great amount as it reduces the throttling. Cooling this card by more aggressive fan speed, aftermarket fans, or water cooling is going to yield far better improvements than those things are doing for nvidia.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> No, in technical terms temperature is _never_ the same as heat. *"Heat" is a measure of thermal power*, and is given in watts. Saying temperature is the same as heat is like saying that speed is the same as mass.
> 
> A quick example:
> 
> A cigarette lighter will burn you but won't noticeably heat a room - high temperature, low heat.
> A radiator won't burn you but will easily heat a room - low temperature, high heat
> 
> Although in this case the 290x does draw a lot of power, the temperature that the GPU core runs at is absolutely not an indicator of its power draw.


(warning wayyyy off topic)









heat is NOT a measurement of thermal power but the *by product of work*; which is exchanged energy.

temperature is the measurement of heat; _which is a characteristic_ of potential and kinetic energy that when combined is thermal power.

simple put, to say heat doesn't equal temperature is just plain silly. because that is what you are measuring the heat (or cold which is lack of heat) with!

(that all worked fine for me as a boiler tech in the navy)

now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast . . . .


----------



## 12Cores

This is a great card just add water.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Die temperature is determined by power dissipated and by how quickly the heatsink/fan takes heat out of the die and puts it in the air.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincible20xx*
> 
> wouldn't achieving 4k @ 120hz be kind of impossible now lol
> 
> even quad fire 290x might not cut it, no ?


Actually it is quite possible not that hard really for example:
It is only 8,3MP whereas 3x 1440P is something like 12MP so it is do-able a second problem with the propaganda is that in those benches they run crazy amounts of anti aliasing.
While the huge amount of pixels should already get rid of a lot if not all noticeable aliasing.

I've ran 3840*2160 @40Hz on a 570 (classified clocked to the moon but it was Vram limited since it was the 1,25GB one)
Point being todays cards can do it as long as they have the needed connections and a tad of horsepower.

With working on 4K @ 120Hz I meant I'm working on the Tcon and transceiver board to go with an existing 120Hz 4K UHD panel along with a bunch of others.
Here is a picture where the transceiver board is not yet replaced with an ASIC on a 84 inch LG panel.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *invincible20xx*
> 
> wouldn't achieving 4k @ 120hz be kind of impossible now lol
> 
> even quad fire 290x might not cut it, no ?


Im not entirely sure if DP 1.2 even supports the bandwidth of 120hz 4k. Anyone know if its been tested? I thought it only officially supports 4k to 60hz


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> I am looking at the die size bud. Name one person that has ever bought a GPU based on die size.
> 
> Nobody cares about die size, everybody cares about performance and a decent amount care about power consumption.
> 
> *Show me your proof where Titan consumes 500 watts on 1.212v please.*


Quote:


> Titan can do 500+ watts while overclocked with the help of a modded bios


MODDED BIOS

Proof Alatar

The Die size is impressive simply from a tech standpoint. You were trying to make it seem as if AMD was behind, when they clearly are not. Because they did not have the die size Nvidia has, the stock power usage will be higher. AMD could easily have more performance with a bigger die while using less power, Nvidia is currently doing it by not pushing GK110 as hard. But As someone that knows how much power a Titan can really use, it is a joke think the titan isn't gonna be the bigger power hog when you start to OC.

Plus Stock Power usage really isn't that much higher then the titan in games.

Also if you care about performance then you already know this has the best $/Performance.


----------



## Coach Mcguirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> Anyone hot price on 290's non X and will crossfire be okay on this


...what?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> We can conclude that AMD crapped the bed with the stock cooler. Anyone seen any reference 290X vs reference 780 overclock reviews yet?
> The best part is that the GTX 480 was a complete failure and embarrassment for Nvidia, even though it actually ran about the same temps as this card. Where are the 290X toaster pics?


At least the 480 wasn't throttling at stock either, the hypocrisy of some people who crapped all over the 480 but now 95c is aok is rather annoying.


----------



## DarkBlade6

1 year later bravo


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy*
> 
> At least the 480 wasn't throttling at stock either, the hypocrisy of some people who crapped all over the 480 but now 95c is aok is rather annoying.


Those that defended the 480 temps to the death(aside from current price differences, 480 vs 5870 is a lot like 290X vs 780) and now criticizing R9 290X temps & noises are in the same boat.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> 1 year later bravo


$450 less, bravo


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> But again, for a person who is buying the card to put in his machine as shipped (no custom cooler, no watercooling) the lack of overclocking headroom on the 290X is AMD's problem. Just because they shipped it with a cooler that sucks donkey's butts doesn't mean they get a free pass to not be compared to overclocked reference 780s. Yes, water results will be interesting, but not everyone wants to water cool or custom cool their cards (for warranty reasons if nothing else) so how can it not be fair to compare out of the box overclocking? Just because AMD fares poorly in that comparison right now?


Oh you dont get it. That guy said that the 780 is 10% faster when both oced. And i told him i am sure that wasnt oced at all because if it cant mantain the clocks at stock on a ref cooler oced will not at all. My point is that the 290x was still 1000 mhz maybe below even linus says that it was oced. Nothing about ref vs custom nothing about all your points


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> Anyone hot price on 290's non X and will crossfire be okay on this
> 
> 
> 
> power suply?




Lol, sorry, had to.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Tahiti has better CF scaling then any current Nvidia card is SLI.
> CF has scaled better then SLI for years.....
> 
> Personally this improved CF is quite impressive when no one was really expecting a improvement in CF scaling at all.
> 
> Though for anyone that already has a gtx780, wait for the price drops to get a second. No point in selling for a 290x, unless your trying to make some money back while getting a boost in performance.


Scaling has been steller for Amd these two gens, so i have no quarrel with that tbh. What's in question is how its managing the "broken" crossfire Eyefinity pacing issue in extreme resolutions (or the mid to upper range extreme resolutions), especially now that 290/290x crossfires via pcie. For the rest of the range, Eyefinity with crossfire is broken and amd promised an Eyefinity patch soon. I would like to keep my lovely Dells but push more pixels. Rather spending a ton more for a Dell 1440/1600, I can easily pickup a couple more dells to run 5x1 eyefinity. Amd is the only side that lets you run this. 5x1 1200 Eyefinity pushing a little bit more the 1440 Eyefinity/Surround. What's been brought up by some folks is how will the 290x cope with larger resolutions, ie 4K 1444/1600, 5x1, 2x3 Eyefinity in crossfire, especially since crossfire is now being routed via the pcie. So I used the Tom's review (crossfire vs sli @ 7680x1440) as a basis to gauge how Eyefinity has improved. From the reviews, it seems like up to Eyefinity triple 1080/1200 it looks good but still a tiny bit off from the Titan's pace but still within the range where you may not notice it. The Tom's review is promising so any fix from Amd can make things better.

Wouldn't mind to keep my 780s but Nvidia is limited to three monitors (plus one accessory), so my next option would be 1440/1600. Dells/Hp are uber expensive. The nicely priced Korean 1440s are tempting but I run portrait and the bottom thick bezel ruins it for me. I would have shell out more for models that have thinner bezels (ie Crossover Blade model) and also contend with selling my already awesome Dells.

Both sides have convincing arguments but I would like more opinions (relevant) regarding Hawaii (and not putting emphasis on the previous gen deficiencies).

meh, I should sleep on this and just think it over until amd fixes the pacing issue officially.


----------



## phenom01

Well good for AMD they can get a good chunk of current premium VGA purchases. But as the cookie crumbles this in normal... In a bit the 780TI will hit and probably blow the 290x out of the water both speed and less power consumption. Kinda AMD's strat for years now. I am no fanboy towards either I like healthy competition...its win win for all.

Not to mention AMD has ALL consoles locked down. So I see a bright future for gaming once the new consoles hit and the market heats up bigtime.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scyy*
> 
> At least the 480 wasn't throttling at stock either, the hypocrisy of some people who crapped all over the 480 but now 95c is aok is rather annoying.


GTX480 has no boosting at all though

And when overclocking with high fan speed you could still get upto 104c before any problems.

I remember my gtx470 OCed on the ref cooler would hit 104c, with a louder fan setting then 55% on that 290x. Though the heatsink on the gtx470 was pretty sad.

Anyone really wanting a 290x for air use and doesn't plan on keeping it stock should wait till aftermarket 290x's come out. Ref Cards were always horrid on temp and noise. Thats Why we toss WC on them.









GTX480/70 was beast on Watercooling though, blowing past anything AMD had during that gen.


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> GTX480 has no boosting at all though
> 
> And when overclocking with high fan speed you could still get upto 104c before any problems.
> 
> I remember my gtx470 OCed on the ref cooler would hit 104c, with a louder fan setting then 55% on that 290x. Though the heatsink on the gtx470 was pretty sad.
> 
> Anyone really wanting a 290x for air use and doesn't plan on keeping it stock should wait till aftermarket 290x's come out. Ref Cards were always horrid on temp and noise. Thats Why we toss WC on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GTX480/70 was beast on Watercooling though, blowing past anything AMD had during that gen.


Yes.. i find it a pitty i had to play the waiting game once waiting for information and price.

Waiting game part 2, here we go again.


----------



## delavan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Those that defended the 480 temps to the death(aside from current price differences, 480 vs 5870 is a lot like 290X vs 780) and now criticizing R9 290X temps & noises are in the same boat.


Yes ,on both sides of the house, there is a little hypocrisy...we need a leafblower photoshop jobbie to compensate for "Thermi BBQ pics!!!!"

I laugh at the guy that mention that Artic cooling sells nice aftermarket coolers for those radeon cards....I KNOW, but one shouldt HAVE to buy an aftermarket cooler or a water block to actually deal with the card...it just raises the price and the price/perf ratio drops....


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Scaling has been steller for Amd these two gens, so i have no quarrel with that tbh. What's in question is how its managing the "broken" crossfire Eyefinity pacing issue in extreme resolutions (or the mid to upper range extreme resolutions), especially now that 290/290x crossfires via pcie. For the rest of the range, Eyefinity with crossfire is broken and amd promised an Eyefinity patch soon. I would like to keep my lovely Dells but push more pixels. Rather spending a ton more for a Dell 1440/1600, I can easily pickup a couple more dells to run 5x1 eyefinity. Amd is the only side that lets you run this. 5x1 1200 Eyefinity pushing a little bit more the 1440 Eyefinity/Surround. What's been brought up by some folks is how will the 290x cope with larger resolutions, ie 4K 1444/1600, 5x1, 2x3 Eyefinity in crossfire, especially since crossfire is now being routed via the pcie. So I used the Tom's review (crossfire vs sli @ 7680x1440) as a basis to gauge how Eyefinity has improved. From the reviews, it seems like up to Eyefinity triple 1080/1200 it looks good but still a tiny bit off from the Titan's pace but still within the range where you may not notice it. The Tom's review is promising so any fix from Amd can make things better.
> 
> Wouldn't mind to keep my 780s but Nvidia is limited to three monitors (plus one accessory), so my next option would be 1440/1600. Dells/Hp are uber expensive. The nicely priced Korean 1440s are tempting but I run portrait and the bottom thick bezel ruins it for me. I would have shell out more for models that have thinner bezels (ie Crossover Blade model) and also contend with selling my already awesome Dells.
> 
> Both sides have convincing arguments but I would like more opinions (relevant) regarding Hawaii (and not putting emphasis on the previous gen deficiencies).
> 
> meh, I should sleep on this and just think it over until amd fixes the pacing issue officially.


Ive heard that trifire eliminates microstutter and frame pacing issues. That might be something worth looking into, especially for 5 monitors


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

579 for Titan performance is a win! Even if it runs 93C with a stock cooler and no room for OC. I'm still impressed! Non-reference coolers/water blocks will do wonders!

AMD needs to keep the pressure for next gen, If they do, it's gonna be a win for everybody.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> But again, for a person who is buying the card to put in his machine as shipped (no custom cooler, no watercooling) the lack of overclocking headroom on the 290X is AMD's problem. Just because they shipped it with a cooler that sucks donkey's butts doesn't mean they get a free pass to not be compared to overclocked reference 780s. Yes, water results will be interesting, but not everyone wants to water cool or custom cool their cards (for warranty reasons if nothing else) so how can it not be fair to compare out of the box overclocking? Just because AMD fares poorly in that comparison right now?


U buy a card, put it in... Install.drivers, then play bf4..!

what does OC have to do with gaming. The ONLY people who oc their cards are people who bought the wrong card.. Or OC'ers who do it for a hobby.

OR at most going into software and hit an overdrive button. Do you really think people care what the "headroom" is on a game card? The headroom is exactly how far you as an individual, will go to extract e ery once of performance out of YOUR rig. Everyone headroom is different.

drop the card in water and run it.... people don't buy new hardware to just play with it, they actually use it. Those who buy to play are actually given cards to destroy.


----------



## battleaxe

Okay, I love the 290x specs. Does anyone know when the non-ref cards should be coming out? I'd like a decent air design. Don't really want to drop 600 on a custom loop, even though that would be fun and all. Oh wait, I could get a custom loop and the 290x and still be at about the same place as a Titan... hmmm.....

No seriously though, a decent air cooler will suffice, anyone have an idea of when?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delavan*
> 
> Yes ,on both sides of the house, there is a little hypocrisy...we need a leafblower photoshop jobbie to compensate for "Thermi BBQ pics!!!!"
> 
> I laugh at the guy that mention that Artic cooling sells nice aftermarket coolers for those radeon cards....I KNOW, but one shouldt HAVE to buy an aftermarket cooler or a water block to actually deal with the card...it just raises the price and the price/perf ratio drops....


Do we recommend people overclock their CPU's with the stock cooler? Nope! Gpus can be an exception sometimes, but hearty overclocks with the 290x reference cooler will not come easily, if at all. Want free performance? then go non-reference or aftermarket if youre serious about it


----------



## battleaxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> 579 for Titan performance is a win! Even if it runs 93C with a stock cooler and no room for OC. I'm still impressed! Non-reference coolers/water blocks will do wonders!
> 
> AMD needs to keep the pressure for next gen, If they do, it's gonna be a win for everybody.


Amen to that.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> The rumour floating around is the the 780ti could be faster than the titan at stock. Add a healthy OC and we might have 60FPS avg at 2560x1440.


If Titan can't do it the 780Ti wont either.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Do we recommend people overclock their CPU's with the stock cooler? Nope! Gpus can be an exception sometimes, but hearty overclocks with the 290x reference cooler will not come easily, if at all. Want free performance? then go non-reference or aftermarket if youre serious about it


Funny thing isn't it?


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> I love it
> 
> some years ago, when GTX 480 was doing 100c and making jet planes silent, Nividia fans: does not matter !!!
> 
> Now its all that matters xD
> 
> *Same for the AMD fans, that cooler is a failure, the 290x IS a better card than the 780, and cheaper, but they need to sell custom cooler cards like NOW*


i agree... but i think what most people are looking at is the stock r9-290x comes in $100 less then a 780, i can get a top end water block for $100, apparently the artic 7970 coolers might actually work with this monster too, so i could always get an artic accelero xtreme when they come out for $80 and have a card both cooler and quieter then any 780 on the market.

the thing is you already have to overclock a 780 pretty solidly just to match a titan. We're talking about a card at STOCK which matches a titan in 1080p and beats it by something like 15%-25% at 4k. this is a monsterous gpu at a very low price. a price low enough i think pretty much everyone is willing to overlook the noising crappy stock heatsink. I mean the noisy, crappy stock heatsink has been an AMD/ATI fixture for a long time now. people just expect it. So people will buy this monster, put on a custom cooling solution and call it a day. or they'll wait a week for the factory redesigned cooling solutions to come out. either way this is a winner even with the hairdryer attached.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> The rumour floating around is the the 780ti could be faster than the titan at stock. Add a healthy OC and we might have 60FPS avg at 2560x1440.


the problem with the titan and 780 in high resolutions is the memory bus size. Nvidia has had issues with this for a long long time. The reason the r9-290x kills the titan at higher resolutions is the massive size (512bit) of it's memory bus. Until nvidia figures this out we won't see any new card from nvidia challanging the r9-290x at those resolutions. As it stands the larger the resolutions get the more the r9-290x leads over the titan and 780... at 1080p they're basically identical, by the time you get to 4k the difference is almost 25%


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> heat is NOT a measurement of thermal power but the *by product of work*; which is exchanged energy.


It is a measure of energy transfer. You measure energy transfer in energy / time, or J/s or Watts.

Have a read here:
Quote:


> heat is energy in transfer between a system and its surroundings other than by work or transfer of matter.
> 
> Heat is not a property or component or constituent of a body itself.


So it is actually nothing to do with work, it is the stuff that _isn't_ work. You can have heat transfer without work, and you can have work without heat transfer (only in an ideal system though).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> temperature is the measurement of heat; _which is a characteristic_ of potential and kinetic energy that when combined is thermal power.


Temperature is a measure of internal energy. Heat is a measure of energy transfer. There does not need to be any transfer of energy for an item to have a temperature.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> simple put, to say heat doesn't equal temperature is just plain silly. because that is what you are measuring the heat (or cold which is lack of heat) with!


No, it really isn't. With temperature you are measuring internal energy, heat is a measure of energy transfer. Two very different things. Heat transfer is driven by temperature difference, so there is some dependency, but they are not the same.

If you want another physical simile, temperature is pressure and heat is flow rate. Pressure difference drives the flow rate but they are not the same thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> (that all worked fine for me as a boiler tech in the navy)


Since we are qualification dropping, that all worked fine for me whilst I was designing steam turbines, including the ones for the Astute submarine...

But you are right in that we are getting a little far off topic here. If you have any further comments feel free to PM me.


----------



## battleaxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Ive heard that trifire eliminates microstutter and frame pacing issues. That might be something worth looking into, especially for 5 monitors


Hey you could buy tri 290x's *and* tri monitors (pretty decent ones too) all for the price of just 3 Titan's...


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> If Titan can't do it the 780Ti wont either.
> Funny thing isn't it?


So many excuses and complaints in the last month, we're getting pretty good at providing rebuttals to defend


----------



## battleaxe

So back to my question;

Does anyone know when the non-ref air cooled cards should be coming out?


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *battleaxe*
> 
> So back to my question;
> 
> Does anyone know when the non-ref air cooled cards should be coming out?


Late December if you were optimistic. Early 2014 if you were pessimist.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *battleaxe*
> 
> So back to my question;
> 
> Does anyone know when the non-ref air cooled cards should be coming out?


From the sapphire rep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaporX*
> 
> Guys you have no idea how bad I want to give you specifics, I truly do. I am an enthusiast just like all of you so this kind of stuff really gets the blood pumping. SAPPHIRE will be introducing boards based on the R9 290 over the next few months. As for the time frame of seeing those solutions I have no information that I can currently share. What I can tell you is that SAPPHIRE is going to have our traditional custom solutions and this cards are going to rock.


----------



## routek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *battleaxe*
> 
> So back to my question;
> 
> Does anyone know when the non-ref air cooled cards should be coming out?


I heard from a few reviewers who've asked the vendors and it seems 2014.

Maybe one will pop up just before christmas.

What you will want with this card is the vendors doing a decent job and taking their time.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Ive heard that trifire eliminates microstutter and frame pacing issues. That might be something worth looking into, especially for 5 monitors


Hmmm, i would have to research this. Haven't heard this since scaling beyond two cards is iffiy in MMG (multi monitor gaming). Some games have great scaling others suck to the point where its worse then 2-way. I did read a review w/ quad 7990s had terrible performance vs just one. I haven't been hanging around the Eyefinity camp long enough to get a good vibe on how it goes with the folks running three or four cards/cores in Eyefinity. I know the Current Nvidia cards can have some poor 3-way and 4-way (Titan, 770/680) scaling in 1080 Surround. But I know some fellow Surround users in 1440/1600 Surround saying that some games definitely benefit from the 4th card.

I'll have to hold judgement until we can get folks and the very few reviewers to to 3-way and 4-way scaling. Too much thinking about all this is keeping me from at least enjoying some gaming







.


----------



## DampMonkey

You would think they release non-reference models before Christmas for some extra revenue, but also to combat the 780ti


----------



## battleaxe

Thanks guys! +1's for all three of you for being so quick!


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> You would think they release non-reference models before Christmas for some extra revenue, but also to combat the 780ti


This could be a







statement but TLT's follow-up video stated that the ASUS and Club3d mentioned that they do not have the stock available to push custom models out and AMD wants to sell reference only at first.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> I heard from a few reviewers who've asked the vendors and it seems 2014.
> 
> Maybe one will pop up just before christmas.
> 
> What you will want with this card is the vendors doing a decent job and taking their time.


Theyre likely done with their designs. Theres a hold on their release though, this has happened with other new card releases as well.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> You would think they release non-reference models before Christmas for some extra revenue, but also to combat the 780ti


If the TI is simply a titan with 3GB it wont be worth the extra $$$ IMO. If its a 2880 card then it would be


----------



## battleaxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> I heard from a few reviewers who've asked the vendors and it seems 2014.
> 
> Maybe one will pop up just before christmas.
> 
> What you will want with this card is the vendors doing a decent job and taking their time.


Yeah, agree. I'm not in that big a hurry. The 280x is still a great deal too. May go with that one. Not sure.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> i agree... but i think what most people are looking at is the stock r9-290x comes in $100 less then a 780, i can get a top end water block for $100, apparently the artic 7970 coolers might actually work with this monster too, so i could always get an artic accelero xtreme when they come out for $80 and have a card both cooler and quieter then any 780 on the market.
> 
> the thing is you already have to overclock a 780 pretty solidly just to match a titan. We're talking about a card at STOCK which matches a titan in 1080p and beats it by something like 15%-25% at 4k. this is a monsterous gpu at a very low price. a price low enough i think pretty much everyone is willing to overlook the noising crappy stock heatsink. I mean the noisy, crappy stock heatsink has been an AMD/ATI fixture for a long time now. people just expect it. So people will buy this monster, put on a custom cooling solution and call it a day. or they'll wait a week for the factory redesigned cooling solutions to come out. either way this is a winner even with the hairdryer attached.
> the problem with the titan and 780 in high resolutions is the memory bus size. Nvidia has had issues with this for a long long time. The reason the r9-290x kills the titan at higher resolutions is the massive size (512bit) of it's memory bus. Until nvidia figures this out we won't see any new card from nvidia challanging the r9-290x at those resolutions. As it stands the larger the resolutions get the more the r9-290x leads over the titan and 780... at 1080p they're basically identical, by the time you get to 4k the difference is almost 25%


Agreed, powerful, faster than 780 @ stock for stock, and supposedly also faster clock for clock, terrible cooler, runs hot as hell. When the fermi die was pushing 94F people literally screamed fire. Yes you can get a custom waterblock for ~120$... Most of these people would also need to sink another 300-400$ in the rest of the loop. Power bills are pretty heafty for those of us who actually pay them.(not saying you don't, guaranteed some here don't) We run ~10-15$ a day down here, & that's less than the old house with dual-AC. 5,000$ a year on power is no fun. *These cost more to run than titans, they better be faster.*


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> If the TI is simply a titan with 3GB it wont be worth the extra $$$ IMO. If its a 2880 card then it would be


I doubt that Nvidia will release a 2880 chip. Then again, I doubted the 290x's price tag. I've been wrong before...


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Agreed, powerful, faster than 780 @ stock for stock, and supposedly also faster clock for clock, terrible cooler, runs hot as hell. When the fermi die was pushing 94F people literally screamed fire. Yes you can get a custom waterblock for ~120$... Most of these people would also need to sink another 300-400$ in the rest of the loop. Power bills are pretty heafty for those of us who actually pay them.(not saying you don't, guaranteed some here don't) We run ~10-15$ a day down here, & that's less than the old house with dual-AC. 5,000$ a year on power is no fun. *These cost more to run than titans, they better be faster.*


You know the extra cost is less then turning off a single light bulb while playing a game right?

Even if you played heavily for 2-3 years you still wouldn't have saved enough in power bills to cover the extra cost of the gtx780.


----------



## 12Cores

I wonder what the max volts are on these cards, at 1.3v with a block these cards should be special. The good thing about this site is that OCNERS will get the card under water soon enough and all our questions should be answered then. Some reviewers were hitting 1150 ghz on air with stock volts, with a block this card should really do some damage.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> what does OC have to do with gaming. The ONLY people who oc their cards are people who bought the wrong card.. Or OC'ers who do it for a hobby.


Are you sure you are on the right site?

What does OC have to do with gaming? The only people who OC are people who bought the wrong card? What does that one even mean?

I've seen some nonsensical posts before, but this one is up there.


----------



## Coach Mcguirk

AMD's got nothing on this.









64mb of hardcore VRAM! You'll never use that much!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> You know the extra cost is less then turning off a single light bulb while playing a game right?
> 
> Even if you played heavily for 2-3 years you still wouldn't have saved enough in power bills to cover the extra cost of the gtx780.


that depends









[email protected] users here. By going with SLI 780's over SLI 670's, my power bill has gone up an *extra* $360. That's after turning off both i7's to compensate for the higher load. Makes quite a difference

Really encouraged by that Sapphire rep though. He seems really enthusiastic about what's to come (though he is just a salesmen)


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> i agree... but i think what most people are looking at is the stock r9-290x comes in $100 less then a 780, i can get a top end water block for $100, apparently the artic 7970 coolers might actually work with this monster too, so i could always get an artic accelero xtreme when they come out for $80 and have a card both cooler and quieter then any 780 on the market.
> 
> the thing is you already have to overclock a 780 pretty solidly just to match a titan. We're talking about a card at STOCK which matches a titan in 1080p and beats it by something like 15%-25% at 4k. this is a monsterous gpu at a very low price. a price low enough i think pretty much everyone is willing to overlook the noising crappy stock heatsink. I mean the noisy, crappy stock heatsink has been an AMD/ATI fixture for a long time now. people just expect it. So people will buy this monster, put on a custom cooling solution and call it a day. or they'll wait a week for the factory redesigned cooling solutions to come out. either way this is a winner even with the hairdryer attached.
> the problem with the titan and 780 in high resolutions is the memory bus size. Nvidia has had issues with this for a long long time. The reason the r9-290x kills the titan at higher resolutions is the massive size (512bit) of it's memory bus. Until nvidia figures this out we won't see any new card from nvidia challanging the r9-290x at those resolutions. As it stands the larger the resolutions get the more the r9-290x leads over the titan and 780... at 1080p they're basically identical, by the time you get to 4k the difference is almost 25%


I personally don't mind jet engine noise. That's from a combination of loud booms over 8 years in the military, and I hide my Tower away in a silent place. However, even with not caring about noise, I would change out that stock cooler for a waterblock. I'd want to really..Really OC these monsters. Which I just ordered 2..So now I gotta buy all the waterblocks and fun stuff..haha


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coach Mcguirk*
> 
> AMD's got nothing on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 64mb of hardcore VRAM! You'll never use that much!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


This +1


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coach Mcguirk*
> 
> AMD's got nothing on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 64mb of hardcore VRAM! You'll never use that much!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


lol hilarious


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> Since we are qualification dropping, that all worked fine for me whilst I was designing steam turbines, including the ones for the Astute submarine...


NICE!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> But you are right in that we are getting a little far off topic here. If you have any further comments feel free to PM me.


thanks for the invite








looking forward to the discussion.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> that depends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] users here. By going with SLI 780's over SLI 670's, my power bill has gone up an *extra* $360. That's after turning off both i7's to compensate for the higher load. Makes quite a difference
> 
> Really encouraged by that Sapphire rep though. He seems really enthusiastic about what's to come (though he is just a salesmen)


Gaming will never be that bad though









Yeah once you start getting into 24/7, but I would suspect that the 290x is a good deal faster then the gtx780 at compute things. While I don't really know how well AMD does in [email protected], I know AMD does great at scrypt mining. That might just make up for the increase in power usage, what would defiantly be noticeable in 24/7 usage over a year.


----------



## JockThatCamel

Has anyone done max overclock benchmarks on water yet? That's what matters to me.


----------



## jincuteguy

I think Nvidia will lower the price of 780 only when the 780 Ti comes out which is next month.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Gaming will never be that bad though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah once you start getting into 24/7, but I would suspect that the 290x is a good deal faster then the gtx780 at compute things. While I don't really know how well AMD does in [email protected], I know AMD does great at scrypt mining. That might just make up for the increase in power usage, what would defiantly be noticeable in 24/7 usage over a year.


yeah for gaming it's quite obvious(ish) for now. Still haven't seen enough OC'd 780 against a OC'd 290X. Too many conflicting reports.

For now it seems if you're into OC'ing and you DON'T watercool, the nod goes to the 780. The aftermarket 290X's will probably fix that, but then we'll have to see the 780 Ti (if Nvidia can match what AMD just did)

exciting times indeed


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JockThatCamel*
> 
> Has anyone done max overclock benchmarks on water yet? That's what matters to me.


Stay Puft should have that soon









He ordered 4. Not sure if he ordered 4 water blocks though


----------



## JockThatCamel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Stay Puft should have that soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He ordered 4. Not sure if he ordered 4 water blocks though


Sweet, I'm wondering how much headroom we'll see on the 290X. Plus I'd love to see that stock cooler go away!


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> He ordered 4. Not sure if he ordered 4 water blocks though


He did. No idea when they'll be shipping tho


----------



## BusterOddo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> newest titan is shaping up to be a pretty good overclocker, i hope my 290x is equally as good, if not better. personally im hoping for a golden one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ive only gotten golden cpus, never been lucky with gpus except one of my 7970s.
> 
> new titan can do 1189/3804 on air on stock bios. doubt it will do 1202 core though, thats always been a hard mark for stock titan bios to hit.
> 
> heres to you 290x, please be a good overclocker


Hope you got next day air on the 290X


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> He did. No idea when they'll be shipping tho


yikes how much were the water blocks?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Are you sure you are on the right site?
> 
> What does OC have to do with gaming? The only people who OC are people who bought the wrong card? What does that one even mean?
> 
> I've seen some nonsensical posts before, but this one is up there.


I know what he's saying to be honest. I've never seen the need to OC for gaming. Ever. I buy setups that will suffice for my gaming needs at stock. The only time I OC is when benching, which ironically is more often than I game...


----------



## evensen007

Just to make sure I got it all straight since I've been out of the loop for a couple of days. A week ago the Titan fans were trolling on about how the 290x would be 700+ dollars and the leaked benchmarks were bogus. Now that the reviews are out (and legit) and the the card is priced at 550, they are complaining that the card doesn't overclock well, is too loud, and is too hot. I have seen a lot of 'you will need water-cooling for these' posts as if it's so impossible. So your 780's and Titans are on stock fans at those crazy 1300+ overclocks, right?

Some people will find anything wrong if they look hard enough. Bottom line: 549 dollars, beats the 780 (and titan in half the benchmarks), and hasn't even been tapped for even more leverage by water-cooling tests yet. Yep, that's a win.


----------



## Bartouille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delavan*
> 
> Thermal imagery of the 290x under load...sorry it's in french, so look at the FLIR pic! I'll translate a little...
> 
> http://www.hardware.fr/articles/910-10/bruit-temperatures.html
> 
> From HARDWARE.FR
> 
> 
> 
> It says:
> 
> Gpu reaches 94 deg celsius, but PCB components don't suffer much from it, besides the vRAM VRMs that reach close to 100 deg celsius (98 deg).
> GPU VRMs are well cooled, considering the enormous heat load that is generated by the card...
> 
> About noise, their call is the following:
> 
> QUIET: really noisy
> UBER: unnaceptable


And that is why I love the reference cooler. At least it can cool the vrm properly unlike MANY aftermarket solutions.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> If Titan can't do it the 780Ti wont either.
> Funny thing isn't it?


There is not room between the Titan and 780 to release another card. With the new drivers they are so close. The 780 TI should beat the titan in games and cost less, because it will have less ram, and they will hobble the Double Precision. That's what I expect to happen anyway. Titan will still win when both cards are max OC'ed probably but the 780TI might be the best single card solution for QHD under 700. I hope.


----------



## Vesku

AMD has had good reference voltage management for several generations now.


----------



## BusterOddo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> This could be a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> statement but TLT's follow-up video stated that the ASUS and Club3d mentioned that they do not have the stock available to push custom models out and AMD wants to sell reference only at first.


Why would AMD or NVidia for that matter care if the companies selling their cards change the coolers? They are still selling the cards. I don't get it. To add to that, if I have to wait 3 months for custom models should I just keep waiting till next gen at that point. (Please don't respond with I will always be waiting) lol Off to check the marketplace for cheap 7970's. Might be time to crossfire for super cheap.


----------



## spitty13

Why haven't the MSI or ASUS 290x gone on sale on newegg yet? They can't be out of stock since they haven't sold any yet.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evensen007*
> 
> Just to make sure I got it all straight since I've been out of the loop for a couple of days. A week ago the Titan fans were trolling on about how the 290x would be 700+ dollars and the leaked benchmarks were bogus. Now that the reviews are out (and legit) and the the card is priced at 550, they are complaining that the card doesn't overclock well, is too loud, and is too hot. I have seen a lot of 'you will need water-cooling for these' posts as if it's so impossible. So your 780's and Titans are on stock fans at those crazy 1300+ overclocks, right?
> 
> Some people will find anything wrong if they look hard enough. Bottom line: 549 dollars, beats the 780 (and titan in half the benchmarks), and hasn't even been tapped for even more leverage by water-cooling tests yet. Yep, that's a win.


not in anybody's defense, but yes, the 290X's stock cooler is piss poor (LOUD and HOT) just like the GTX 480.

Most review sites have put it beyond acceptable.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> yikes how much were the water blocks?


116 a piece


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> MODDED BIOS
> 
> Proof Alatar
> 
> The Die size is impressive simply from a tech standpoint. You were trying to make it seem as if AMD was behind, when they clearly are not. Because they did not have the die size Nvidia has, the stock power usage will be higher. AMD could easily have more performance with a bigger die while using less power, Nvidia is currently doing it by not pushing GK110 as hard. But As someone that knows how much power a Titan can really use, it is a joke think the titan isn't gonna be the bigger power hog when you start to OC.
> 
> Plus Stock Power usage really isn't that much higher then the titan in games.
> 
> Also if you care about performance then you already know this has the best $/Performance.


Trying to make it seems like AMD is behind? Dude, I complimented the card not once but twice but I called into question your theory on die size and I'm suddenly saying AMD is behind? You seriously need to take the red tinted glasses off. The 290x is quite simply the best performing single gpu card for the price that has ever been made. But no card is perfect. If it was, it would be the last card ever made.

So back to your theory and keep in mind I could not care less about power consumption. AMD increased the die size over Tahiti 23% and have a better performing chip that runs hotter running and consumes more power. Yet, you think they could increase the die size to the same as GK110, get that extra performance out of it but somehow use less power? I think AMD should hire you right away since that was something their engineers could not do.

As for Titan, Alatar is using volt mods that most others do not. The fact of the matter is you have zero idea how much power it's using doing 1202 mhz with normal modded bios voltage of 1.212v. Guess what, it's not even 350w. I've been there and done that. Have you? Nope. Not to mention you also have no idea how much power a 290x will use at max OC because nobody has found max OC and reported power usage. If they have, please point that out to us.


----------



## sugarhell

Oh you got the nickel one? I am forward to see your rig stay puft.

I will get this one:

http://www.ekwb.com/uploads/images/FC-R9-290X_CA_full_1200.jpg


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> There is not room between the Titan and 780 to release another card. With the new drivers they are so close. The 780 TI should beat the titan in games and cost less, because it will have less ram, and they will hobble the Double Precision. That's what I expect to happen anyway. Titan will still win when both cards are max OC'ed probably but the 780TI might be the best single card solution for QHD under 700. I hope.


as i posted earlier, the problem the 780 and titan have against the r9-290x isn't shader count or anything like ram size or clock speed. those are the things a 780ti will likely improve on. those aren't why the titan and 780 can't run and gun with the r9-290x. The problem they have is memory bus size. it's a long standing problem nvidia has had for a while. it's a vexing problem they don't have a solution for. until the memory bus size can be increased you won't see a card from nvidia on the kepler chip design match the r9-290x at high resolutions (better then 1080p). Its the memory bus width that makes the r9-290x kill the titan at 4k resolutions (by as much as 25%).

so while a 780ti might come in faster at 1080p then a titan, it's highly unlikely it will come in any better at higher resolutions then a titan or the 780. That's of course assuming the 780ti will be faster then a titan.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Oh you got the nickel one? I am forward to see your rig stay puft.
> 
> I will get this one:
> 
> http://www.ekwb.com/uploads/images/FC-R9-290X_CA_full_1200.jpg


For some reason i love the way Nickel looks


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> not in anybody's defense, but yes, the 290X's stock cooler is piss poor (LOUD and HOT) just like the GTX 480.
> 
> Most review sites have put it beyond acceptable.


I think the GTX 480 Hell-rmi takes the crown since it needed actual a hybrid heatsink w/ the housing. The heatsink was so big, it was incorporated w/ the housing for additional cooling. Giving us a heater and grill at once









On water it was pretty decent, though DD pig blocks were not the best (







).


----------



## malmental




----------



## BusterOddo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> what does OC have to do with gaming. The ONLY people who oc their cards are people who bought the wrong card.. Or OC'ers who do it for a hobby.
> 
> OR at most going into software and hit an overdrive button. Do you really think people care what the "headroom" is on a game card? The headroom is exactly how far you as an individual, will go to extract e ery once of performance out of YOUR rig. Everyone headroom is different.
> 
> drop the card in water and run it.... people don't buy new hardware to just play with it, they actually use it. Those who buy to play are actually given cards to destroy.


OC has a lot to do with gaming. It's called free performance in the form of higher image quality settings and higher fps which can equal smoother GAMEPLAY for NO extra money( unless we are talking aftermarket cooling of course). OC is great for people who can't spend the monies for top cards but can get near the same GAMEING experience as someone with a more expensive card. Playing with new hardware is the definition of using it??? Am I missing something.


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evensen007*
> 
> Just to make sure I got it all straight since I've been out of the loop for a couple of days. A week ago the Titan fans were trolling on about how the 290x would be 700+ dollars and the leaked benchmarks were bogus. Now that the reviews are out (and legit) and the the card is priced at 550, they are complaining that the card doesn't overclock well, is too loud, and is too hot. I have seen a lot of 'you will need water-cooling for these' posts as if it's so impossible. So your 780's and Titans are on stock fans at those crazy 1300+ overclocks, right?
> 
> Some people will find anything wrong if they look hard enough. Bottom line: 549 dollars, beats the 780 (and titan in half the benchmarks), and hasn't even been tapped for even more leverage by water-cooling tests yet. Yep, that's a win.


The only issue I have is the fact that most of these reviews did not allow the card to run long enough to throttle to the point most people actually gaming on them will see. Secondly yes it is too loud, watch the 100% fan video, it's like a freaking power drill and that's the only way to keep the card from throttling on this reference cooler from most accounts. It's a great chip that is being held back by a garbage heatsink/fan which is why I'm looking forward to some benches with these cards under water.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*


.
WOW! these cards have really taken off!

(btw, i was just going to "share" that







) m-o-n-s-t-e-r-P-C


----------



## malmental




----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> as i posted earlier, the problem the 780 and titan have against the r9-290x isn't shader count or anything like ram size or clock speed. those are the things a 780ti will likely improve on. those aren't why the titan and 780 can't run and gun with the r9-290x. The problem they have is memory bus size. it's a long standing problem nvidia has had for a while. it's a vexing problem they don't have a solution for. until the memory bus size can be increased you won't see a card from nvidia on the kepler chip design match the r9-290x at high resolutions (better then 1080p). Its the memory bus width that makes the r9-290x kill the titan at 4k resolutions (by as much as 25%).
> 
> so while a 780ti might come in faster at 1080p then a titan, it's highly unlikely it will come in any better at higher resolutions then a titan or the 780. That's of course assuming the 780ti will be faster then a titan.


I understand what you're saying, and what I really need to see is overclocked results of this card, but apparently there is no overclocking room...smh. So we need to wait for non reference coolers. The MSI GTX780 gaming matches this card, and beats it when OCed on air. So I think it's really a toss up. Sure the 290x is slightly cheaper than the msi gaming but you lose out on the benefits of running an nvidia card, and with G-Sync just around the corner...(possibly a solution to my 2560 woes.) Now if an non reference 780 matches the 290x already I'm very excited to see what the 780ti stock card is capable of. I fully expect the 780ti to blow the 290x to pieces so that Nvidia can just coast until maxwell.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> I understand what you're saying, and what I really need to see is overclocked results of this card, but apparently there is no overclocking room...smh. So we need to wait for non reference coolers. The MSI GTX780 gaming matches this card, and beats it when OCed on air. So I think it's really a toss up. Sure the 290x is slightly cheaper than the msi gaming but you lose out on the benefits of running an nvidia card, and with G-Sync just around the corner...(possibly a solution to my 2560 woes.) Now if an non reference 780 matches the 290x already I'm very excited to see what the 780ti stock card is capable of. I fully expect the 780ti to blow the 290x to pieces so that Nvidia can just coast until maxwell.


Fully expect to blow 290X? Even if it had 2880C it will not blow it alway. Most likely have Cores between 780 and Titan wile having a more aggressive boost clock.


----------



## TheRussian1

What benefits to running an Nvidia card? Are people still trying to argue that Nvidia is some magical experience? Mantle is just around the corner as well....both brands have their specific advantages, please stop with the whole "nvidia is a premium experience".

780Ti blowing 290x to pieces, good one.


----------



## evensen007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> I understand what you're saying, and what I really need to see is overclocked results of this card, but apparently there is no overclocking room...smh. So we need to wait for non reference coolers. The MSI GTX780 gaming matches this card, and beats it when OCed on air. So I think it's really a toss up. Sure the 290x is slightly cheaper than the msi gaming but you lose out on the benefits of running an nvidia card, and with G-Sync just around the corner...(possibly a solution to my 2560 woes.) Now if an non reference 780 matches the 290x already I'm very excited to see what the 780ti stock card is capable of. I fully expect the 780ti to blow the 290x to pieces so that Nvidia can just coast until maxwell.


This is why we can't have nice things.


----------



## SeeThruHead

I dont see why that is so hard to see. When the MSI 780 Gaming (NOT even lightning) matches the 290x at both 1080p and 2560 without an OC... why would the 780ti not beat it?

EDIT: (As clearly shown by my chosen forum title) I believe that Nvidia provides a lot more than just performance to the gaming experience.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I agree that the reference cooler is a bit of a disappointment. I'd say that AMD could've gotten away with charging the $650 everybody was expecting had they given the card a cooler on a par with the Titan/780's. I personally don't really care much about the stock cooler as I see a card like this as practically begging for a block. That is where the real fun is going to begin; finding out the limits of that Hawaii monster when thermal throttling is completely eliminated from the equation...


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheRussian1*
> 
> What benefits to running an Nvidia card? Are people still trying to argue that Nvidia is some magical experience? Mantle is just around the corner as well....both brands have their specific advantages, please stop with the whole "nvidia is a premium experience".
> 
> 780Ti blowing 290x to pieces, good one.


Benefits?

Sometimes, you find out that your existing hardware works better with one vendor over the other. Sometimes, your experiences with one company sway you to the other for a while. Sometimes, its the pursuit of performance.

Its a concept that about 95% of the users in this thread don't understand.

Everyone has different setups, and different hardware. Everyone has different experiences.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Benefits?
> 
> Sometimes, you find out that your existing hardware works better with one vendor over the other. Sometimes, your experiences with one company sway you to the other for a while. Sometimes, its the pursuit of performance.
> 
> Its a concept that about 95% of the users in this thread don't understand.
> 
> Everyone has different setups, and different hardware. Everyone has different experiences.


+1 My negative experience with my 6970+6990 pushed me over to the green side and I couldnt be happier here. That being said I wish that the 290x was a little bit more impressive to force Nvidia to do even better. But it just doesn't seem to be the case.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> SOMEONE DO IT PLEASE


I'm fairly bad with Photoshop and i am getting this card but what the hell

EDIT: Now With Bacon........because bacon makes everything better


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I'm fairly bad with Photoshop and i am getting this card but what the hell


Not bad.........

Here is GTX 480...



The 290x so far has best results for cooking eggs.


----------



## pyra

This is how I see it:


Nvidia still have the fastest single gpu card with stock cooler for single and triple 1080p monitor gaming with an overclocked Titan
AMD have the fastest card for 4k monitors and above with the 290X
The 290X has no overclocking headroom on a stock cooler as the gpu clocks are already being throttled back when it reaches 95C on stock clocks
Price/performance AMD have every price point covered
Nvidia will respond with a price cut, no matter what team your on you will benefit from this
Nvidia is the better option for multi card setups on air due to the heat of the 290X
...... and I still havn't a clue what to upgrade too as physx is still something I'd like to have the option to use.


----------



## Levesque

10-23% BETTER than Titan at 4K resolution, for HALF the price. My God Nvidia! Wake up!


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> You know the extra cost is less then turning off a single light bulb while playing a game right?
> 
> Even if you played heavily for 2-3 years you still wouldn't have saved enough in power bills to cover the extra cost of the gtx780.


This has never really been my experience, power bills went up ~20$ a month when i slapped in my titans from 670's. We also use 25w compact florro's through the whole house, so i guess it depends what light bulb you are comparing it to. We do heavy scrutinizing of power bills down here. 300$ for a house our size w/ the level of tech in it is pretty amazing. Specially since we pump 74f all day.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> 10-23% BETTER than Titan at 4K resolution, for HALF the price. My God Nvidia! Wake up!


zomg! Titan was released before 4k was released! I'm sure maxwell will have plenty of people QQing, then AMD will one up them again, then NV will one up AMD, than we will all be on 300$ gpu's strong enough to power triple 8k monitors & all hold hands & sing kumbaya.

Welcome to the GPU game. 290x dethrone coming in ~6-8 months. Maxwell dethrone coming in 12-24 months. Hopefully no WW3 or mass artificial recession in between.

*btw, quite a few people here from Team NV owe me 100$*

(290x > titan was a mathematical no-brainer.)

Last edit sware: I'm not sure how anyone can be happy about how the stock cooler is cooling the VRM's. Though, I bet they are some OP rated VRM's... w/e helps you sleep @ night. This card screams waterblock me, @ 80+DB from what I understand.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I'm fairly bad with Photoshop and i am getting this card but what the hell
> 
> EDIT: Now With Bacon........because bacon makes everything better
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I had bacon with Breakfast, Lunch, & Dinner today.














I'm 6 foot, 160-70 lbs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyra*
> 
> This is how I see it:
> 
> 
> Nvidia still have the fastest single gpu card with stock cooler for single and triple 1080p monitor gaming with an overclocked Titan
> AMD have the fastest card for 4k monitors and above with the 290X
> The 290X has no overclocking headroom on a stock cooler as the gpu clocks are already being throttled back when it reaches 95C on stock clocks
> Price/performance AMD have every price point covered
> Nvidia will respond with a price cut, no matter what team your on you will benefit from this
> Nvidia is the better option for multi card setups on air due to the heat of the 290X
> ...... and I still havn't a clue what to upgrade too as physx is still something I'd like to have the option to use.


Point 7. Welcome to GPU warz.







NV jacking prices since for ever, thx to physX!


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Fully expect to blow 290X? Even if it had 2880C it will not blow it alway. Most likely have Cores between 780 and Titan wile having a more aggressive boost clock.


Exactly. A 2880 card would only be like 192 more cuda cores then Titan
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I'm fairly bad with Photoshop and i am getting this card but what the hell
> 
> EDIT: Now With Bacon........because bacon makes everything better


Worst Photoshop EVER


----------



## 6steven9

Not sure why anyone should care about 4k for at least a few years and by then 1 card should be able to push out 60fps if not more not close to 30fps which is pointless for gaming it's annoying. Such a pointless comparison only reason AMD is touting 4k reason is because that's where the card shines but it's still pointless to buy it for 4k because it's unplayable......


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> 10-23% BETTER than Titan at 4K resolution, for HALF the price. My God Nvidia! Wake up!


Nvidia will wake up once the R9 290 launches at USD 450 and matches GTX 780. Thats the reason for Nvidia to rush out a GTX 780 Ti. it will be 3GB card with DP performance neutered and sell for USD 600 - 650. GTX 780 will get a cut to USD 500 and the GTX 770 will be knocked down to USD 350. you can expect all of this to happen by mid -Nov.


----------



## selk22

I could care less if it matches the Titan or the 780 right now.. It comes in a better price and nearly if not better performance then Nvidia's top end cards.

For people complaining about Reference cards having bad temps... These are AMD reference coolers we are talking about here. These cards SCREAM for a block!

What matters to me is this.. The TDP is not that much higher than my 580, and the performance is a HUGE improvement. It also somewhat "Future proof" and will allow 1440p to be extremely playable in crossfire. As for now 1200p gaming on this single card is going to be the sweet spot!


----------



## SeeThruHead

Not to mention that the 290x is slightly below titan at 2560x1440. The only win it gets is in a resolution no one uses. Sure it's cheaper, but if the 780ti beats the titan even by a little bit and comes out cheaper. Well then it beats the 290x, at least in the resolutions that matter right now.


----------



## Roaches

I'm hoping it to be less than $450 for the 290 alone, I'm betting around $400-$429....


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *6steven9*
> 
> Not sure why anyone should care about 4k for at least a few years and by then 1 card should be able to push out 60fps if not more not close to 30fps which is pointless for gaming it's annoying. Such a pointless comparison only reason AMD is touting 4k reason is because that's where the card shines but it's still pointless to buy it for 4k because it's unplayable......


Of the thousands of members here in OCN I only know one person with a 4K monitor.

Most people seem to be at 1080p, and a bunch on 1440/1600.

Still waiting on solid benchmarks at those resolutions. Linus had 780 beating a 290x at 1080, and about the same at 1440. Mild overclocks and both cards.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Worst Photoshop EVER


i dunno, i think i can do worse than that


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *6steven9*
> 
> Not sure why anyone should care about 4k for at least a few years and by then 1 card should be able to push out 60fps if not more not close to 30fps which is pointless for gaming it's annoying. Such a pointless comparison only reason AMD is touting 4k reason is because that's where the card shines but it's still pointless to buy it for 4k because it's unplayable......


Go look at Nvidia's marketing, they have been pushing 4k harder then AMD, and 4k can apply to a lot more things then just games. Its hilarious that AMD slaps Nvidia in the face with 290x's performance at 4k, but thats not the reason why so many people will buy it. The 290x is an amazing card at a more then fair price.


----------



## pyra

Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with this card, AMD have released something that Nvidia will have to react too but...

For people that don't want the absolute high end or could not afford more than one of these cards there are better options.

I know this isn't valid for all and it's only my personal position. I can afford 1 290X right now but why would I do that when I can have 2 GTX760s for less and have more performance?


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> i dunno, i think i can do worse than that


It was effective at delivering the message! Lol I wonder what else could be cooked with a reference 290x at stock speeds.


----------



## vloeibaarglas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x*
> 
> Go look at Nvidia's marketing, they have been pushing 4k harder then AMD, and 4k can apply to a lot more things then just games. Its hilarious that AMD slaps Nvidia in the face with 290x's performance at 4k, but thats not the reason why so many people will buy it. The 290x is an amazing card at a more then fair price.


290x would probably murder Titan at 4k after any potential improvement from Mantle.

I guess this might be what the AMD rep meant when he said that 290x would "ridicule" Titan in BF4.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

4k resolution results are great but the tech is still way too expensive for it to be relevant. I mean, why would I care that the 290X can beat Titan with 60+FPS at 4k when the only affordable 4k screen I could conceivably get is capped at 30Hz (Seiki). I know, I know, I have $2k in video cards so what's another $3500 for a monitor right? Wrong. My two 1440p monitors are absolutely perfect for my usage and I'm not spending that much on a monitor when the bulk of my usage is spent benchmarking rather than gaming. It is a very important point though that if YOU want 4k then the 290/290X is certainly the way to go. Just please get water blocks!


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *6steven9*
> 
> Not sure why anyone should care about 4k for at least a few years and by then 1 card should be able to push out 60fps if not more not close to 30fps which is pointless for gaming it's annoying. Such a pointless comparison only reason AMD is touting 4k reason is because that's where the card shines but it's still pointless to buy it for 4k because it's unplayable......


You realize that 4k has 4 times as many pixels at a 1080p screen? thats like 3 screen eyefinity + 1 more screen. How many people play 3 screens with only 1 gpu? Not that many. Even managing 30fps in demanding games is impressive to me.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> [quote name="Levesque" url="/t/1436561/various-amd-radeon-r9-290x-reviews-thread/1570#post_21053820"]10-23% BETTER than Titan at 4K resolution, for HALF the price. My God Nvidia! Wake up!


Nvidia will wake up once the R9 290 launches at USD 450 and matches GTX 780. Thats the reason for Nvidia to rush out a GTX 780 Ti. it will be 3GB card with DP performance neutered and sell for USD 600 - 650. GTX 780 will get a cut to USD 500 and the GTX 770 will be knocked down to USD 350. you can expect all of this to happen by mid -Nov. :thumb:[/QUOTE]
that's a nice crystal ball you have there


----------



## SniperOct

Some people here are trying too hard to bring negativity to this card and it is just not getting trendy. While it is true that the 290x cooler is disappointing, it is not as big a deal as to prompt someone to stay in this 158+ pages of a thread and regurgitate the same thing page after page as if you didn't have a job or a life. It is transparent, give it up. It is known. There is nothing more to say on that. The truth is, stock models disappear from the market shortly and stock buyers normally put it under water anyway. The rest wait for after-market solutions. Why are you pretending this isn't the case? Yes you are right, the cooler is not great. But it is not a grand discovery. Reviewers have already stated it. AMD stated it before release. And you have stated it to the point of vomit. So please move along already. Discuss about solutions instead. That is a better contribution to be honest.


----------



## amd655

*"The truth is, stock models disappear from the market shortly and stock buyers normally put it under water anyway. The rest wait for after-market solutions"*

*NOPE.AVi*

Proof:


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyra*
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with this card, AMD have released something that Nvidia will have to react too but...
> 
> For people that don't want the absolute high end or could not afford more than one of these cards there are better options.
> 
> I know this isn't valid for all and it's only my personal position. I can afford 1 290X right now but why would I do that when I can have 2 GTX760s for less and have more performance?


You should take a look at the r9 290 then. It leaves you room to upgrade in the future, somtehing you often lose out on when you buy multiple GPU's off the bat.


----------



## wermad

Not my work, but damn funny and true:


----------



## pyra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperOct*
> 
> Some people here are trying too hard to bring negativity to this card and it is just not getting trendy. While it is true that the 290x cooler is disappointing, it is not as big a deal as to prompt someone to stay in this 158+ pages of a thread and regurgitate the same thing page after page as if you didn't have a job or a life. It is transparent, give it up. It is known. There is nothing more to say on that. The truth is, stock models disappear from the market shortly and stock buyers normally put it under water anyway. The rest wait for after-market solutions. Why are you pretending this isn't the case? Yes you are right, the cooler is not great. But it is not a grand discovery. Reviewers have already stated it. AMD stated it before release. And you have stated it to the point of vomit. So please move along already. Discuss about solutions instead. That is a better contribution to be honest.


So you want us to focus only on the positive aspects of this card? in a review thread?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pyra*
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with this card, AMD have released something that Nvidia will have to react too but...
> 
> For people that don't want the absolute high end or could not afford more than one of these cards there are better options.
> 
> I know this isn't valid for all and it's only my personal position. I can afford 1 290X right now but why would I do that when I can have 2 GTX760s for less and have more performance?
> 
> 
> 
> You should take a look at the r9 290 then. It leaves you room to upgrade in the future, somtehing you often lose out on when you buy multiple GPU's off the bat.
Click to expand...

Good point, I keep forgetting about that card.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> that's a nice crystal ball you have there


Nvidia won't let go of their market share easily. AMD will gain because they had no presence in the USD 450+ market. its going to be a good fight from which consumers benefit.


----------



## SniperOct

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyra*
> 
> So you want us to focus only on the positive aspects of this card? in a review thread?


I don't "want". I only suggest.

Now, what you are saying is a misrepresentation of my post. For the most part, "you" are concentrating on the negative instead of having a balanced conversation. I am not saying, concentrate on the positive nor the negative. I am saying, the discussion is significantly unbalanced towards the negative side. It is tiring to navigate.


----------



## amd655

*Collaboration of the grilles !*


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Not my work, but damn funny and true:


You'd hope AMD learned something from that, but nope. Here goes AMD with PCI e grille of their own. Lol


----------



## ZealotKi11er

What about his?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> What about his?


Typical AMD...........

PR PR PR PR PR

Shoot themselves.


----------



## Roaches

Oh they irony in that video!


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyra*
> 
> So you want us to focus only on the positive aspects of this card? in a review thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point, I keep forgetting about that card.


Bringing negativity for negativity sake is a negativity in of itself.


----------



## raghu78

the stock cooler in quiet mode is decent. its the uber mode which is bad. Even in quiet mode the r9 290x is close to Titan performance for a USD 550 price. not much you can argue with that. now its upto the partners to bring the custom coolers like toxic, matrix and lightning with custom BIOS and improved cooling / fan profiles. bring the noise levels down while pushing for factory overclocked models to 1.1 ghz.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/amd-r9-290x-review-part-1/19/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/19

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/26.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review-16.html

" Either way, the R9 290X isn't a quiet card *but in Silent Mode it's doubtful you'll hear it over 120mm case fans*."


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> You'd hope AMD learned something from that, but nope. Here goes AMD with PCI e grille of their own. Lol


If you have enough time, you can tweak and iron out these things like high tdp, heat, and noise. Now, we can say amd had since December 2011, but a few folks don't remember two big projects Amd had: ps4 and xbox1.

What I'm deducing, Amd in what little time they had left to battle Nvidia in the card wars, developed a 290. Something to take care of GTX 680 (and 770). Now to combat GTX 780 & Titan, crank up the juice (and heat, and noise, etc.) and you get a 290X. Fermi 1.0 felt rushed and the big grill, big power draw, and massive heat are clues to that. GTX 580 fixed these things w/ fermi 2.0, since there was time and enough lessons learned to address these shortcomings.

don't really blame amd as they were very busy with the console projects that will help the company stay a float. 290X is a fine card imho. Just slap a water block or wait for the custom coolers if you can't stand the heat and noise. Power, meh, I sold my CM 1500w unit for $120; look used and you can find great prices on used large watt psu(s).

Heck, its not like the 6990 was chilly cool and whisper quiet. Nothing new here


----------



## VegetarianEater

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> I dont see why that is so hard to see. When the MSI 780 Gaming (NOT even lightning) matches the 290x at both 1080p and 2560 without an OC... why would the 780ti not beat it?
> 
> EDIT: (As clearly shown by my chosen forum title) I believe that Nvidia provides a lot more than just performance to the gaming experience.


you know that there will be an MSI gaming version of the 290x... right? and it will be cheaper than the 780...

and seeing how the 290x is being throttled with the stock cooler the custom coolers like twin frozr will mean even more dominance for the 290x...


----------



## delavan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> Not to mention that the 290x is slightly below titan at 2560x1440. The only win it gets is in a resolution no one uses. Sure it's cheaper, but if the 780ti beats the titan even by a little bit and comes out cheaper. Well then it beats the 290x, at least in the resolutions that matter right now.


I always considered ATI/AMD as the "display" guys...you know, more screens, eyefinity and all that...back in the day ATI was known for better 2D quality!!!! (you know back in the 3D Rage Pro days vs RIVA 128)...nVIDIA, always been the gaming+ special effect dudes...

As often, the Radeon is better at really high rez (READ NICHE)....GeFORCE is more like brute force at the more common resolutions (READ the MASSES)...

My two cents...I like both companies, I've just been luckier with nVidia myself...

To me, the R9-290x is like an exotic sports car...Fast and quirky, the GTX 780 /Titan is like a souped-up muscle car with a big nasty rumbling V8.... my analogy is kinda borked tho, because the high energy consuming card is the Radeon and it's cheaper( muscle car) than the exotic (Geforce is more expensive)...

Ok I need to go to bed.


----------



## evensen007

Swiftech just announced that they will have a full Komodo block for the 290x shortly. Will be waiting for that one over the EK block.


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evensen007*
> 
> Swiftech just announced that they will have a full Komodo block for the 290x shortly. Will be waiting for that one over the EK block.


Yeah I PM'd Bryan about it yesterday and got conformation on that also..

Just was waiting to say something until it was announced.

This will be my preference also


----------



## deafboy

Looking forward to seeing more numbers come out once blocks become more widely available.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> If you have enough time, you can tweak and iron out these things like high tdp, heat, and noise. Now, we can say amd had since December 2011, but a few folks don't remember two big projects Amd had: ps4 and xbox1.
> 
> What I'm deducing, Amd in what little time they had left to battle Nvidia in the card wars, developed a 290. Something to take care of GTX 680 (and 770). Now to combat GTX 780 & Titan, crank up the juice (and heat, and noise, etc.) and you get a 290X. Fermi 1.0 felt rushed and the big grill, big power draw, and massive heat are clues to that. GTX 580 fixed these things w/ fermi 2.0, since there was time and enough lessons learned to address these shortcomings.
> 
> don't really blame amd as they were very busy with the console projects that will help the company stay a float. 290X is a fine card imho. Just slap a water block or wait for the custom coolers if you can't stand the heat and noise. Power, meh, I sold my CM 1500w unit for $120; look used and you can find great prices on used large watt psu(s).
> 
> Heck, its not like the 6990 was chilly cool and whisper quiet. Nothing new here


At the price for performance, I don't care if the thing ran 120C, as long as it could withstand it. You can't have it all apparently. Something's gotta give.


----------



## zipper17

care to explain why at 4K resolution 290x is better than Titan?

because of 512 bit?


----------



## EastCoast

So AMD won and at a lower price point....who knew?









And we still have yet to see Mantle results in BF4.


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VegetarianEater*
> 
> you know that there will be an MSI gaming version of the 290x... right? and it will be cheaper than the 780...
> 
> and seeing how the 290x is being throttled with the stock cooler the custom coolers like twin frozr will mean even more dominance for the 290x...


Dominance is just the wrong word to use, I mean it gives around 5 fps average higher real world results from 780..

The only thing interesting about this card truthfully is that it's $100 ish cheaper than the closest competitor.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> It was effective at delivering the message! Lol I wonder what else could be cooked with a reference 290x at stock speeds.


Turn it into a BBQ plate.....then you can cook everything!


----------



## Vesku

ITT, people who do not know the difference between temperature and actual energy emitted as heat.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Dominance is just the wrong word to use, I mean it gives around 5 fps average higher real world results from 780..
> 
> The only thing interesting about this card truthfully is that it's $100 ish cheaper than the closest competitor.


Ummm and is faster clock for clock than a Titan. Did you read the whole thread? I bet you the 290 pro walks all over the 780 eventually.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> ITT, people who do not know the difference between temperature and actual energy emitted as heat.


Embrace the collaboration...........


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00*
> 
> Bringing negativity for negativity sake is a negativity in of itself.


you left off the "confucius say"
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VegetarianEater*
> 
> you know that there will be an MSI gaming version of the 290x... right? and it will be cheaper than the 780...
> 
> and seeing how the 290x is being throttled with the stock cooler the custom coolers like twin frozr will mean even more dominance for the 290x...


and even more power consumption. inc 400w gpu's. I'm not trying to bash, despite what people keep telling me in pm's. I'm trying to keep things logical. The same thing anyone else does to us when nv is about to drop new product. These thread's don't even touch the level of harassment titan owner's got @ launch. Hmm, I really do want to see water cooled performance though. Should be pretty sexy. Just need to go back to the fermi-radiator standards.


----------



## selk22

Do we expect mantel to have any impact on the thermal performance perhaps making the card work less to achieve the same or similar performance?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evensen007*
> 
> Swiftech just announced that they will have a full Komodo block for the 290x shortly. Will be waiting for that one over the EK block.


Any reason for this? I've always had high regards for swiftech komodo blocks, but their Titan block was a huge turn off for me. The design just seemed lazy
http://www.xtremerigs.net/reviews/water-cooling/nvidia-titan-water-block-roundup-coming-soon/swiftech-komodo/

Pretty good flow from that design i guess. Probably best used for multicard setups


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> Do we expect mantel to have any impact on the thermal performance perhaps making the card work less to achieve the same or similar performance?


It will take a load off the CPU, but I don't think the GPU will see any temperature differences


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Ummm and is faster clock for clock than a Titan. Did you read the whole thread? I bet you the 290 pro walks all over the 780 eventually.


Yeah that's awesome and everything, they are all so close together in performance, that that particular aspect of it is boring if I'm totally honest with myself.

The performance is very close (at 1440p the only one I care about), the OC headroom is seemingly very close, the price of R9-290x + accellero/wb is also very close.

Once the hype of "omg it's faster than a titan" wore off I was simply left with, well at my res I still won't be able to push insane IQ and get a drastic increase in performance from any current high end card.

So I'm back to price, and it's making me want two of them, that's where these are awesome, having more than 1, but not just 1.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VegetarianEater*
> 
> you know that there will be an MSI gaming version of the 290x... right? and it will be cheaper than the 780...
> 
> and seeing how the 290x is being throttled with the stock cooler the custom coolers like twin frozr will mean even more dominance for the 290x...


It's all too little too late. I was expecting this card to shake up the industry a bit. But its just a 780 for 100 dollars cheaper (at the most common resolutions). Sure it has mantle and thats nice for BF4 players but its really not that big a deal. By the time the masses are able to get more performance out of this (third party coolers) there will be a 780 price drop and the 780ti to beat it.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> It's all too little too late. I was expecting this card to shake up the industry a bit. But its just a 780 for 100 dollars cheaper (at the most common resolutions). Sure it has mantle and thats nice for BF4 players but its really not that big a deal. By the time the masses are able to get more performance out of this (third party coolers) there will be a 780 price drop and the 780ti to beat it.


How does forcing the 780 to drop in price NOT shaking up the industry?

Also, Mantle will be for all frostbite 3 games. It's more than just BF4.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> It's all too little too late. I was expecting this card to shake up the industry a bit. But its just a 780 for 100 dollars cheaper (at the most common resolutions). Sure it has mantle and thats nice for BF4 players but its really not that big a deal. By the time the masses are able to get more performance out of this (third party coolers) there will be a 780 price drop and the 780ti to beat it.


What are you talking about? It is titan level performance for half the price. I guarantee water 290x > water/modded titan.


----------



## SeeThruHead

At 2560x1440, and 1080p the 290x is equal in performance to the 780 with a tiny OC. Titan hasn't been worth 1000 dollars since the 780 came out so that's not a really good comparison for price per performance.

By the time the mass market can purchase a 290x that can beat the 780 OC'd at 1440 and 1080 the 780 ti will be out to take back that crown. Obviously this card is going to excel under water but that doesn't matter to the average GPU buyer.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> At 2560x1440, and 1080p the 290x is equal in performance to the 780. Titan hasn't been worth 1000 dollars since the 780 came out so that's not a really good comparison for price per performance.


The benches I've seen show 290x at 3% increase over titan, 10% over 780. And actually it is a very good comparison because watercooled/modded titans kill 780s.


----------



## SeeThruHead

I amended my post what I meant was 780 with an OC, which can beat a stock titan. Titans are of course faster than 780s but not 350 dollars faster, not for gaming at 1440 anyway, you're paying for 6gb vram and DP. The 780 is a better baseline to compare price vs performance in games.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> The benches I've seen show 290x at 3% increase over titan, 10% over 780. And actually it is a very good comparison because watercooled/modded titans kill 780s.


Don't worry there will be forum posts harping on something else if custom cooled 290X manages to maintain the lead over custom 780 and reference 780 Ti.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> It's all too little too late. I was expecting this card to shake up the industry a bit. *But its just a 780 for 100 dollars cheaper (at the most common resolutions).* Sure it has mantle and thats nice for BF4 players but its really not that big a deal. By the time the masses are able to get more performance out of this (third party coolers) there will be a 780 price drop and the 780ti to beat it.


seriously. now you're just talking silly. it's ALWAYS faster then a 780 at any resolution or title. It's within -1% of a titan at 1080p on average, and that changes as the resolution goes up in the favor of the 290x (topping out at an average of 23% faster then the Titan at 4k). the Titan is on average 10% faster then the 780 at 1080p. Doing the math that makes the 290x 9% faster then a 780 at 1080p, a number that gets even bigger at higher resolutions.

The 290x isn't competing against the 780. it's competing against a Titan. That's where it's performance matches up. If you match it by price it's closest in price to 4gb 770s or 680s (500-600)... if you match it by performance it's running with the Titan. Either way it's in a league of it's own. Put down the green colored shades please. The 780 isn't a competitor, you'd need to overclock a 780 to 1200-1300 just to tie a stock 290x.


----------



## LaBestiaHumana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> seriously. now you're just talking silly. it's ALWAYS faster then a 780 at any resolution or title. It's within -1% of a titan at 1080p on average, and that changes as the resolution goes up in the favor of the 290x (topping out at an average of 23% faster then the Titan at 4k). the Titan is on average 10% faster then the 780 at 1080p. Doing the math that makes the 290x 9% faster then a 780 at 1080p, a number that gets even bigger at higher resolutions.
> 
> The 290x isn't competing against the 780. it's competing against a Titan. That's where it's performance matches up. If you match it by price it's closest in price to 4gb 770s or 680s (500-600)... if you match it by performance it's running with the Titan. Either way it's in a league of it's own. Put down the green colored shades please. The 780 isn't a competitor, you'd need to overclock a 780 to 1200-1300 just to tie a stock 290x.


Benches I've seen put 780 ahead at 1080 and right on par at 1440. A decent oc 780 has edges it out while staying cooler.


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> seriously. now you're just talking silly. it's ALWAYS faster then a 780 at any resolution or title. It's within -1% of a titan at 1080p on average, and that changes as the resolution goes up in the favor of the 290x (topping out at an average of 23% faster then the Titan at 4k). the Titan is on average 10% faster then the 780 at 1080p. Doing the math that makes the 290x 9% faster then a 780 at 1080p, a number that gets even bigger at higher resolutions.
> 
> The 290x isn't competing against the 780. it's competing against a Titan. That's where it's performance matches up. If you match it by price it's closest in price to 4gb 770s or 680s (500-600)... if you match it by performance it's running with the Titan. Either way it's in a league of it's own. Put down the green colored shades please. The 780 isn't a competitor, you'd need to overclock a 780 to 1200-1300 just to tie a stock 290x.


What reviews have you been seeing?


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> seriously. now you're just talking silly. it's ALWAYS faster then a 780 at any resolution or title. It's within -1% of a titan at 1080p on average, and that changes as the resolution goes up in the favor of the 290x (topping out at an average of 23% faster then the Titan at 4k). the Titan is on average 10% faster then the 780 at 1080p. Doing the math that makes the 290x 9% faster then a 780 at 1080p, a number that gets even bigger at higher resolutions.
> 
> The 290x isn't competing against the 780. it's competing against a Titan. That's where it's performance matches up. If you match it by price it's closest in price to 4gb 770s or 680s (500-600)... if you match it by performance it's running with the Titan. Either way it's in a league of it's own. Put down the green colored shades please. The 780 isn't a competitor, you'd need to overclock a 780 to 1200-1300 just to tie a stock 290x.


the msi gaming gtx 780 clocked at 1119MHz go head for head at FPS. Go take a look at the OC3D review.

OC3D:
Quote:


> Probably the best way to explain the situation is that if you're going for a stock card; buy it, plug it in, forget about it; then the R9 290X is a good choice. It is, by and large, the same performance that you'll get from a GTX780 and that makes it equal first in the 'fastest single GPU on earth' league table. If you've been waiting to upgrade to another Radeon card, this is a great choice with enough power to make it a worthwhile upgrade over a HD7970.


So while for us enthusiasts it's going to be exciting to see what it can do under water, and later on down the road for the masses with third party coolers. It's not that much of an industry shaker right now matching the 780 with a tiny OC and not having out of the box OCing capability.


----------



## 250179

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Benches I've seen put 780 ahead at 1080 and right on par at 1440. A decent oc 780 has edges it out while staying cooler.


'

my findings have been the same. the R9 only ties/slightly beats a 780 at extreme resolutions past 2560x1600


----------



## carlhil2

Can't understand how grown men let GRAPHIC cards turn them into children. yes, 290/290X are GREAT cards, bang for buck, all of that nonsense, but, if someone told you that AMD will be coming out with a BEAST card in about 8 months and, for $1.000.00, you can have that performance TODAY, who, if they had the loot, wouldn't have signed up for that? i have just purchased a 4930K and a $350.00 MOBO and a $300.00 case, even though i could a FASTER machine in games by going with the 4770K, while costing a lot less, yet, nobody would get on one for THAT, chill people, AMD scored one, give them that, but, it doesn't mean the Titan/780 all of a sudden suck now, RIGHT?


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> What reviews have you been seeing?


I'm guessing none of them







.

Also.... wait til the 28th, sell the games and promos and 780 is below the R9-290x in price, even before the price cut..

I'm not raining on their parade, I just think people aren't fully thinking about the actual cost of ownership, after you get decent cooling and find the max OC.... performance is just ridiculously similar.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coachmark2*
> 
> Holy crap.... I think it's AMD's Fermi....
> 
> While she does outperform the last generation by 10-15% (Titan/780/5870) it (Hawaii/Fermi) does so at a huge thermal penalty. This thing is an absolute power pig.


It's just a byproduct of the incredible density that AMD achieved with Hawaii. And efficiency is also amazing, that's a 438 mm die outperforming a 550mm die with 1 Billion fewer transistors.


----------



## clubber_lang

I had to post this from the review over at Hardocp........the 290X....what an amazing card! I am running two 7970's in cfx and am still extremely happy with what they were able to still do against these new big cards.

Pay close attention to how bad the 290X stomps the crap out of both the 780 AND titan when the gaming gets into 4K. It's not really even a fair fight. Now.....imagine you bought two 290X cards for the price of one Titan.......unreal!

" *R9 290X vs. TITAN*

The R9 290X is performance comparable to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 2560x1600 (1600p) and lower (1080p.) In every game we played we were able to match the same gameplay experience as the GeForce GTX TITAN. That means that every game played the same between both video cards, the same performance, same in-game settings, and same smoothness. Performance in terms of frames per second was either right under, or right at TITAN FPS performance. The performance differences were so insignificant that those did not translate to any noticeable gameplay differences at all.

*The situation changes when the Radeon R9 290X is pushed up to Ultra HD 4K display resolutions*. Whatever magic AMD is doing at 4K, it is working. We found that the Radeon R9 290X was faster in every game compared to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 3840x2160. It wasn't just a little bit faster either, it was anywhere from 10-23% faster. This is a significant difference. At 4K resolutions, you need every bit of performance you can get to achieve playable performance at high in-game settings on a single video card. The Radeon R9 290X is clearly the card for Ultra HD 4K.

*R9 290X vs. GTX 780*

The new AMD Radeon R9 290X slightly overpowers the GeForce GTX 780 in performance. We found that in every game we played the performance was always higher than the GeForce GTX 780. We are dealing with small margins though, as the GTX 780 and TITAN's difference are only 10-15% apart at best anyway. This means the Radeon R9 290X sits in-between the GTX 780 and GTX TITAN on performance a lot of the time (except at 4K). But most of the time it is closer to the TITAN in performance, than it was the GTX 780.

The R9 290X is more than price competitive with the GTX 780. In fact, the R9 290X is ~$100 less than the GTX 780. The 290X is a better value the GTX 780.

*R9 290X vs. HD 7970 GHz Edition*

What was also very important to look at was how much of an upgrade will the R9 290X give you from the previous king on AMD's side, the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition. In all of our gameplay testing the performance was much higher, and the gameplay settings possible were a lot better on the R9 290X. We were able to have a much higher level of gameplay experience on the R9 290X versus the HD 7970 GE.

In our performance testing, we found that the performance advantage did vary. We were seeing, on average an improvement of 20% using the R9 290X over the HD 7970 GE. This doesn't sound like a lot, but it did equate to a more in-depth gaming experience. Also, the difference widens as you include higher resolutions and gaming on displays at Ultra HD 4K resolutions. The R9 290X has an even more superior advantage at those resolutions.

If you are coming from AMD's last generation (6000 series) then the R9 290X is a great upgrade. If you currently have a Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition video card, it's a bit more of a hard sell depending on how many pixels you are pushing. However, if you plan to get yourself a display upgrade, the Radeon R9 290X will surely excel.

And I always thought Hardocp leaned more towards the green side......but they praised this new 290X!


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> the msi gaming gtx 780 clocked at 1119MHz go head for head at FPS. Go take a look at the OC3D review.
> 
> OC3D:
> So while for us enthusiasts it's going to be exciting to see what it can do under water, and later on down the road for the masses with third party coolers. It's not that much of an industry shaker right now matching the 780 with a tiny OC and not having out of the box OCing capability.


Ugh, 150-200mhz increase is not overclocking capability out of the box?

This card is meant to compete with the titan not 780. 780 is out of the question.


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> I'm guessing none of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also.... wait til the 28th, sell the games and promos and 780 is below the R9-290x in price, even before the price cut..
> 
> I'm not raining on their parade, I just think people aren't fully thinking about the actual cost of ownership, after you get decent cooling and find the max OC.... performance is just ridiculously similar.


I feel clock for clock presuming what I've seen in 3dmark holds true, it'll take around a 150+ core advantage on a 780 to match.


----------



## froyang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> What reviews have you been seeing?


I think this


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Ugh, 150-200mhz increase is not overclocking capability out of the box?
> 
> This card is meant to compete with the titan not 780. 780 is out of the question.


Everybody know the titan is overpriced. When you compare anything to a titan whatever you're comparing is going to have a much better price/performance ratio. What you need to compare it to are cards like MSI lightning, gaming, and the HOF card.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *froyang*
> 
> I think this


That is eggs per second cooked.


----------



## skupples

Hard Tends to lean towards which ever sides is winning. Which will be AMD for ~7-8 months.


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> What reviews have you been seeing?


What have YOU been seeing? R9 290X trades blows with a Titan and consistently beats the 780 by almost 10%. This lead turns into complete and utter domination at higher resolutions.


----------



## th3illusiveman

People forget that non-reference cards are coming and will completely eliminate these heat and noise issues. The stock GTX780 was meh-tier with stock cooling but with custom cooling it hits 1300Mhz in some cases. There is no reason to assume that the R9-290X won't see a similar boost in performance as those options become available.

I will admit that there is no reason at all to buy a reference card unless you are going to use water cooling because the heat limits this cards potential to a significant extent. What i am very excited about is the R9-290, that thing will be a beast for an amazing price. AMD just made the GPU industry exciting again.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> Everybody know the titan is overpriced. When you compare anything to a titan whatever you're comparing is going to have a much better price/performance ratio. What you need to compare it to are cards like MSI lightning, gaming, and the HOF card.


And everyone knows r9 290x currently destroys everything Nvidia has in terms of price/performance. I'm not comparing price/performance, I'm comparing performance. Why are you comparing non reference 780s to a 290x? Those cards are factory clocked out of the box and everyone already knows those 780s beat stock titan and will surely beat a stock 290x. An example of what you're doing right now can be seen in another one of tiny tom logans useless reviews, comparing oc'd 780s to titan.


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> I feel clock for clock presuming what I've seen in 3dmark holds true, it'll take around a 150+ core advantage on a 780 to match.


Thank you, that is something to think about for sure.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> And everyone knows r9 290x currently destroys everything Nvidia has in terms of price/performance. I'm not comparing price/performance, I'm comparing performance. Why are you comparing non reference 780s to a 290x? Those cards are factory clocked out of the box and everyone already knows those 780s beat stock titan and will surely beat a stock 290x. An example of what you're doing right now can be seen in another one of tiny tom logans useless reviews, comparing oc'd 780s to titan.


It destroys cookers, hell you will not need a pan for your eggs at least.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> It destroys cookers, hell you will not need a pan for your eggs at least.


Anything is possible with that excuse for a cooler. You can replace the sun with a 290x based on temps that fan yields.

No reason to buy a 290x currently if not going watercooling.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Performance wise AMD *NEW* card matches nvidias 780 non reference. I can't really say much other than I was expecting a lot more. Then when they come out with non reference cooling for the 290x they will have the 780ti to contend with.


----------



## wermad

290<780<290X< Titan

We're talking about small margins between each other.

Best bang for your buck: 290 (?)
Best well rounded card: 780
Best over all performance: 290X
Best wallet buster (msrp): Titan (find a used one for ~$650USD and it ties w/ the 290X imho).


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> Benches I've seen put 780 ahead at 1080 and right on par at 1440. A decent oc 780 has edges it out while staying cooler.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> What reviews have you been seeing?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> the msi gaming gtx 780 clocked at 1119MHz go head for head at FPS. Go take a look at the OC3D review.
> 
> OC3D:
> So while for us enthusiasts it's going to be exciting to see what it can do under water, and later on down the road for the masses with third party coolers. It's not that much of an industry shaker right now matching the 780 with a tiny OC and not having out of the box OCing capability.


Hardocp really disagrees... as does THG. not sure what reviews you're looking at but I recall both of those being pretty definitively a 290x matching the titan show... with the 780 lagging a little behind.


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> What have YOU been seeing? R9 290X trades blows with a Titan and consistently beats the 780 by almost 10%. This lead turns into complete and utter domination at higher resolutions.


Yes, but you don't think you get over a 10% performance increase from 1300 core? I was only quoting that he said it's takes a 1200-1300 780 to match a STOCK 290. Please know the context, unless you think there's less than a 10% performance gain with a 30%+ OC.


----------



## Mhill2029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> What have YOU been seeing? R9 290X trades blows with a Titan and consistently beats the 780 by almost 10%. This lead turns into complete and utter domination at higher resolutions.


I'm a little confused here, from what I've seen it's barely trading blows with a stock reference 780 (although to be fair a lot of reviews seem to be a bit of a mixed bag). It has really cheap construction and, i'm only guessing here but I cannot see a GPU having much of a lifespan with those temperatures let alone anyone attempting overclocking the thing. But in all it's a little irrelevant, since the 780Ti will be coming with more cuda cores and higher clocks that will not give the R290x much attention from most people.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> Hardocp really disagrees... as does THG. not sure what reviews you're looking at but I recall both of those being pretty definitively a 290x matching the titan show... with the 780 lagging a little behind.


This. 290x wouldn't be getting all this hate from the fanboys if it had 780 performance lol.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> Hardocp really disagrees... as does THG. not sure what reviews you're looking at but I recall both of those being pretty definitively a 290x matching the titan show... with the 780 lagging a little behind.


I've been putting the most stock in OC3d's review, also Linus seems to confirm his results failrly closely. The 780 and the titan are so close in performance now that the titan is really kind of irrelevant from a average consumers standpoint.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

*Nvidia fanboy hat on:*

Again you guys are quoting and wetting your pants over stock voltage and bios reviews that totally ignore the massive differences there are between stock 780's and Titans and ones that have modded bios's and voltage unlocked. My Titans were not even in the same league with the stock bios as they are now with the Skynet bios. At stock the best OC I could get was 1150MHz and now they will easily do over 1300MHz. None, I repeat, none of the reviews were done with these simple mods that nearly every OCN Titan owner has done to their cards so when you guys show up in the benching threads with your shiny new 290X's that are going to "stomp" or "kill" or "ridicule" the Titans try not to be too disappointed when you can't even come close to the highest Titan scores. For instance, everybody's favorite Nvidia promoter Alatar's Titan will do over 1400MHz which translates to a Valley score of over 93 FPS at 1080p (hell, even mine does 87 FPS). The fastest 290X I've seen so far in Valley: 73 FPS.

Good luck guys...









*Nvidia fanboy hat off:*

When you factor in price and the fact that AMD has somehow managed to equal Titan's performance using 100mm^2 less die size on the same 28nm process you really have to hand it to them. The 290X is an impressive engineering feat and all the rumors that were somehow impossible (like the 64 ROP's or the 512 bus or the 4GB of VRAM or the 400mm^2+ die size) all turned out to be true. Sure the card has a crappy cooler but I wouldn't even consider one without a block anyways personally. In all honesty I can't wait to start benching my Titans against these things under water as I want to see what they can really do when not throttling or being limited by temps....


----------



## amd655

I WANT MY EGGS!!!!!!!


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 290<780<290X< Titan
> 
> We're talking about small margins between each other.
> 
> Best bang for your buck: 290 (?)
> Best well rounded card: 780
> Best over all performance: 290X
> Best wallet buster (msrp): Titan (find a used one for ~$650USD and it ties w/ the 290X imho).


I think you are spot on with this, with the 780ti beating Titan in gaming performance only by a small amount for around $800 launch price.

I'm upgrading from a 6970 and at this point I think I've talked myself into a 780 classy come next Monday to get in on the games and Amazon is usually pretty good about honoring price differences if there is a quick price drop.

I'm not gonna lie though, gonna miss the fun of installing an Accellero Extreme and gluing all those heatsinks on







.


----------



## flippin_waffles

This architecture looks awesome for mobile also.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> I'm a little confused here, from what I've seen it's barely trading blows with a stock reference 780 (although to be fair a lot of reviews seem to be a bit of a mixed bag). It has really cheap construction and, i'm only guessing here but I cannot see a GPU having much of a lifespan with those temperatures let alone anyone attempting overclocking the thing. But in all it's a little irrelevant, since the 780Ti will be coming with more cuda cores and higher clocks that will not give the R290x much attention from most people.


You obviously missed the first 100 pages of people arguing titan max oc vs 290x max oc. If 290x "barely" traded blows with a 780 the first 100 pages of thread would not have been here.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> This architecture looks awesome for mobile also.


Really?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> I'm a little confused here, from what I've seen it's barely trading blows with a stock reference 780 (although to be fair a lot of reviews seem to be a bit of a mixed bag). It has really cheap construction and, i'm only guessing here but I cannot see a GPU having much of a lifespan with those temperatures let alone anyone attempting overclocking the thing. But in all it's a little irrelevant, since the 780Ti will be coming with more cuda cores and higher clocks that will not give the R290x much attention from most people.


Delusional much?


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> This. 290x wouldn't be getting all this hate from the fanboys if it had 780 performance lol.


Not to get into a fanboy war, (which this thread really is) but it seems pretty simple to me.

The titan and 290x are about equal out of the box, with the 290x being faster at higher resolutions, and the titan a tiny bit faster at 1080p. either way it probably comes down the titles benched to find the difference between the two more often then not. the 780 is about 10% slower out of the box then the titan. Now we all know it can overclock up to and past a stock titan, that's not the point.

The point that seems cut and dry to me, is that we're talking about a card that's $100 cheaper then the 780 and $450 cheaper then the titan.

THATS the point. Oh we can argue hypothetical about which one will give you a smidge more performance with which cooler, all of which will be speculating because as we all know AMD stuck their POS hairdrier onto the card, but which will probably be answered in the coming days when people are able to put these under water. But to argue some custom card, with a factory overclock and custom cooling solution will be faster then this $550 spaceheater is just _*nerd rage*_ at it's finest.

seriously folks. Looks to me like a winner at a price you can't beat. got to tip the hat to AMD and be patient for a week to see what these babies will do under a water loop and THEN we can have these pissing contests about who spent their money foolishly and who has the faster card. All i know is nvidia will have to drop the price of their cards and that will be a win for everyone.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Really?


Graphics powered by: AMD 290X



Played some farmville on laptop powered by GTX 480:


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> seriously folks. Looks to me like a winner at a price you can't beat. got to tip the hat to AMD and be patient for a week to see what these babies will do under a water loop and THEN we can have these pissing contests about who spent their money foolishly and who has the faster card. All i know is nvidia will have to drop the price of their cards and that will be a win for everyone.


I'm going to start building my rig when the RIVE BE comes, already got crossfire 290x with blocks. I haven't had a desktop in 3 months, I'm going to enjoy slaying some green fanboi.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> I've been putting the most stock in OC3d's review, also Linus seems to confirm his results failrly closely. The 780 and the titan are so close in performance now that the titan is really kind of irrelevant from a average consumers standpoint.


Linus


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *froyang*
> 
> I think this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is eggs per second cooked.
Click to expand...

over easy please!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Played some farmville on laptop powered by GTX 480:


OH NOES! my crops need harvesting and piggies need fed
(mmmm bacon for eggs)


----------



## Mhill2029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> You obviously missed the first 100 pages of people arguing titan max oc vs 290x max oc. If 290x "barely" traded blows with a 780 the first 100 pages of thread would not have been here.


Oh I did read them, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting arguments from reviewers showing it behind the 780 and others like in the main thread showing it way ahead. God it's confusing to who is legit about this.....

But based on the numbers above which i'll say are more likely, well done AMD I don't think anyone saw the 780 under threat let alone the Titan. Maybe it's about time Nvidia started addressing their pricing lol

Temps are still a bit of let down though....


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Linus










I watch some of his oc videos from the past done by slick or read his viewers comments when in need of a good laugh


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> Oh I did read them, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting arguments from reviewers showing it behind the 780 and others like in the main thread showing it way ahead. God it's confusing to who is legit about this.....
> 
> But based on the numbers above which i'll say are more likely, well done AMD I don't think anyone saw the 780 under threat let alone the Titan. Maybe it's about time Nvidia started addressing their pricing lol


Yes the conflicting reviews are overwhelming, but think about it like this: why would Nvidia put out the 780ti if the 290x competed with the 780?
All will be revealed in time


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> I think you are spot on with this, with the 780ti beating Titan in gaming performance only by a small amount for around $800 launch price.
> 
> I'm upgrading from a 6970 and at this point I think I've talked myself into a 780 classy come next Monday to get in on the games and Amazon is usually pretty good about honoring price differences if there is a quick price drop.
> 
> I'm not gonna lie though, gonna miss the fun of installing an Accellero Extreme and gluing all those heatsinks on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


290<780<290X<780Ti ? Titan @ msrp

780Ti maybe the death sentence for Titan. Its overpriced and outgunned. More vram one can say? Well, GTS 640 can be had w/ 4gb vs 1gb on the base model. Well it one benefit most of the time? nah. There's a small wiggle room between 780 and Titan and to cut that in half while still being cheaper??? Now you have another product that's close in performance (~95%) and costs less then Titan. Also, nvidia will want to one up Amd so now you're looking at a card ~97-99% the performance of Titan in the 780Ti. I think Nvidia should have cut Titan production now. Tweak it and relaunch it as Titan Ultra to fend off AMD until Maxwell shows up. But most likley Titan ultra will be Maxwell GTX 880







. GTX 780Ti would have been a good GTX 870 imho and the GTX 780 a good GTX 860Ti. This raises the bar for Amd to challenge. Heck, what do I know? I can just speculate but the big wigs at each camp make the final decisions.

Now, to find four Titans @ $650


----------



## SeeThruHead

Well I think it's telling that both Linus and OC3d which have advertising contracts with AMD are showing the 290x trading blows with the 780 OC'ed.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> *Nvidia fanboy hat on:*
> 
> Again you guys are quoting and wetting your pants over stock voltage and bios reviews that totally ignore the massive differences there are between stock 780's and Titans and ones that have modded bios's and voltage unlocked. My Titans were not even in the same league with the stock bios as they are now with the Skynet bios. At stock the best OC I could get was 1150MHz and now they will easily do over 1300MHz. None, I repeat, none of the reviews were done with these simple mods that nearly every OCN Titan owner has done to their cards so when you guys show up in the benching threads with your shiny new 290X's that are going to "stomp" or "kill" or "ridicule" the Titans try not to be too disappointed when you can't even come close to the highest Titan scores. For instance, everybody's favorite Nvidia promoter Alatar's Titan will do over 1400MHz which translates to a Valley score of over 93 FPS at 1080p (hell, even mine does 87 FPS). The fastest 290X I've seen so far in Valley: 73 FPS.
> 
> Good luck guys...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nvidia fanboy hat off:*
> 
> When you factor in price and the fact that AMD has somehow managed to equal Titan's performance using 100mm^2 less die size on the same 28nm process you really have to hand it to them. The 290X is an impressive engineering feat and all the rumors that were somehow impossible (like the 64 ROP's or the 512 bus or the 4GB of VRAM or the 400mm^2+ die size) all turned out to be true. Sure the card has a crappy cooler but I wouldn't even consider one without a block anyways personally. In all honesty I can't wait to start benching my Titans against these things under water as I want to see what they can really do when not throttling or being limited by temps....


I don't think it will be a big deal, considering what quad 290x on stock voltage did against all them zombied titans and lightning 780s. Trifecta? Trifecta! Sweeping fs, 3dm11, and vantage on day one on stock voltage. Ignoring the first two, vantage is a 1:1 battle and gives interesting insight into this cards potential. Stock volts @ 1400mhz vs 1500mhz zombied titans. Not a bad showing for day one. It also shows the awesome job AMD always does on their reference pcb. The 7970 pcb was good for 1600mhz. Once voltage and drivers come online, it will be an interesting race.


----------



## GRQ

Holy cow, this thread got 168 pages in a day, crazy!


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> Oh I did read them, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting arguments from reviewers showing it behind the 780 and others like in the main thread showing it way ahead. God it's confusing to who is legit about this.....
> 
> But based on the numbers above which i'll say are more likely, well done AMD I don't think anyone saw the 780 under threat let alone the Titan. Maybe it's about time Nvidia started addressing their pricing lol


from what i've seen of the numbers it seems pretty clear that it depends on how badly the 290x was throttling back. THG tested on an open test bed in an ac'ed room, while Hardocp did the custom fan profile and tested in an open bench. In the end i think it comes down to if the card was temp throttling or not. THG showed that it would throttle back to 723mhz pretty consistently if you didn't work on the fan profiles. It seems uber mode isn't that uber, as it still caps the blower at 55%, then throttles back at 95C. If you play with the fan profiles apparently the card will very easily outpace a titan. if you leave them at stock it comes back to titan territory, and if you play it in silent mode in a case, it will throttle back and fall back into 780 territory.

I think that's why there is a bit of debate on how fast it is. simply put the one thing all those reviews made loud and clear to me is the stock _*hairdrier*_ REALLY REALLY suck. heck the Tom's reviewer said he'd use one in silent mode because in his opinion in uber mode at just 55% speed the fan was loud enough to cause hearing damage. That reminds me of my old agp 3850.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

But where are the dual and single score wins for AMD then? Surely if they can beat Titans in quad they should beat them in dual too right? Unless of course you figure in the fact that Nvidia doesn't even officially support quad in the first place...


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> Well I think it's telling that both Linus and OC3d which have advertising contracts with AMD are showing the 290x trading blows with the 780 OC'ed.


stock 290x trading blows with a crazy factory oc'd 290x? seems good, titan couldn't do it at stock.

Linus, and now oc3d are for overviews, not final decisions. Look at toms recent review of the corsair case, the amount of faked hype can choke a horse.


----------



## Mhill2029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Yes the conflicting reviews are overwhelming, but think about it like this: why would Nvidia put out the 780ti if the 290x competed with the 780?
> All will be revealed in time


One hell of a battle though so it's going to be an exciting end to the year. I think the 780Ti could be a beast, but where that would leave the Titan in the scheme of things is strange situation. If the Ti has more vram (doubtful but possible) then it could be EOL for the Titan. Mind you it was a niche product anyway so it wouldn't be too surprising if it has a limited shelf life. Time will tell....


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> But where are the dual and single score wins for AMD then? Surely if they can beat Titans in quad they should beat them in dual too right? Unless of course you figure in the fact that Nvidia doesn't even officially support quad in the first place...


LOL dude. How many peeps have their cards and blocks yet? Raise your hands?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GRQ*
> 
> Holy cow, this thread got 168 pages in a day, crazy!


Half are complaints about the heat from nvidia fans. The other half are complaints about the heat from Amd fans









Nah, just kidding. We got all the usual suspects. Haters, lovers, critics, devotees, and atheists (don't have a religious attachment to either camp).


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Lol, I'll see you in the benching threads man...


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> LOL dude. How many peeps have their cards and blocks yet? Raise your hands?


Yeah give it some time, 290x gets multiple world records on its first day over the scores that took 8 months to get.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol, I'll see you in the benching threads man...


----------



## amd655

Damn, may have bacon with my eggs, so much TDPPPPPPP


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Lol, I'll see you in the benching threads man...


See you in a week and a half lol. Slovenia to USA on ek time is snail time.


----------



## TheRussian1

I see 780Ti and non-reference 290x trading blows, with the 290x being priced more competitively.

Personally I am going to wait for 290 to drop in price to trade for my 7950....maybe. I don't really find the need to spend more than 300 dollars for a card, ever.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> That is eggs per second cooked.


Fanboy in denial

I suppose Nvidia look at this kind of people and said:

And that is why boy we keep our cards overpriced, fanboys will always buy our cards regardless


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> See you in a week and a half lol. Slovenia to USA on ek time is snail time.


Meh I thought my blocks shipped from frozencpu but it says packaging -.-
Did you get any backplates?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheRussian1*
> 
> I see 780Ti and non-reference 290x trading blows, with the 290x being priced more competitively.
> 
> Personally I am going to wait for 290 to drop in price to trade for my 7950....maybe. I don't really find the need to spend more than 300 dollars for a card, ever.


290 is going to be the best price/performance card for a while. best choice for a budget build


----------



## Johnny Rook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> *seriously folks. Looks to me like a winner at a price you can't beat. got to tip the hat to AMD and be patient for a week to see what these babies will do under a water loop and THEN we can have these pissing contests about who spent their money foolishly and who has the faster card.* All i know is nvidia will have to drop the price of their cards and that will be a win for everyone.


If one has to put a waterblock in the card to make it run cooler and silent it doesn't make it the bargain you are trying to make it be, does it? And we are still left with a +50W TDP over the GTX780. The only thing the R9 290X wins is in performance out-of-the-box. Performance matters, heck I have a 1202MHz overclocked GTX780 but, there are other things also important. I have my PC sit on the desk and I do not want a GPU screaming at me when I am gaming. Also, I am concerned with the temperatures. I know how my old HD5970 warmed my room...

Look, I do have a GTX780 but, it was my 2nd nVIDIA card EVER (the 1st was so much time ago, it was named 5700), if *I'm a fanboy, I am an ATI/AMD fanboy*. I do know how good my 780 performs and how silent it is. BUT, *I was thinking for months that I would sell the GTX780 when the R9 290X came out*. After seeing how negligent the performance difference is - mind that in my own house tests, the GTX780 beats that Uber R9 290X review results across the board -, *I changed my mind*.


----------



## Roadkill95

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436849/rant-alatar-gets-on-my-nerves-so-much

bye bye OCN


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> But where are the dual and single score wins for AMD then? Surely if they can beat Titans in quad they should beat them in dual too right? Unless of course you figure in the fact that Nvidia doesn't even officially support quad in the first place...


More excuses lol...


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Really?


Is there a better architecture available clock for clock? Or a better memory controller? It must scale down very well and the process is rumored to have very good low power characteristics. If this is in Kaveri with Mantle support, TrueAudio, hUMA, hQ and other HSA features I can't think of a better mobile offering.

BTW what in the worldt is NV going to do against the upcoming aftermarket R9 290 pro's at even lower price points.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1436849/rant-alatar-gets-on-my-nerves-so-much
> 
> bye bye OCN


GL with that. Dude is protected somehow. He's gotten some ppl banned who never deserved it. And he protects his cheating friends in certain bench threads. Like in this one case, this cheater was banned by thread OP. Thread OP then gets drawn into an unrelated argument and gets banned. Suddenly cheater is unbanned from bench thread while thread OP is banned. Posts declaring his ban are deleted. Coincidence? I think not.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> See you in a week and a half lol. Slovenia to USA on ek time is snail time.


T, how many islands did you pickup? Kiddies getting the Tahiti quad rig?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Rook*
> 
> If one has to put a waterblock in the card to make it run cooler and silent it doesn't make it the bargain you are trying to make it be, does it? And we are still left with a +50W TDP over the GTX780. The only thing the R9 290X wins is in performance out-of-the-box. Performance matters, heck I have a 1202MHz overclocked GTX780 but, there are other things also important. I have my PC sit on the desk and I do not want a GPU screaming at me when I am gaming. Also, I am concerned with the temperatures. I know how my old HD5970 warmed my room...
> 
> Look, I do have a GTX780 but, it was my 2nd nVIDIA card EVER (the 1st was so much time ago, it was named 5700), if *I'm a fanboy, I am an ATI/AMD fanboy*. I do know how good my 780 performs and how silent it is. BUT, *I was thinking for months that I would sell the GTX780 when the R9 290X came out*. After seeing how negligent the performance difference is - mind that in my own house tests, the GTX780 beats that Uber R9 290X review results across the board -, *I changed my mind*.


Uhhmm... So why does your 780 have a water block on it?


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> GL with that. Dude is protected somehow. He's gotten some ppl banned who never deserved it. And he protects his cheating friends in certain bench threads. Like in this one case, this cheater was banned by thread OP. Thread OP then gets drawn into an unrelated argument and gets banned. Suddenly cheater is unbanned from bench thread while thread OP is banned. Posts declaring his ban are deleted. Coincidence? I think not.


see this is kinda ish that he'd pull
Goddamn


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> See you in a week and a half lol. Slovenia to USA on ek time is snail time.
> 
> 
> 
> T, how many islands did you pickup? Kiddies getting the Tahiti quad rig?
Click to expand...

I figured I'd start with two. Technically I don't need that much speed since I'm only using those trip 1080 panels I got from you. Thus two 290x's should equal three to four 7970s once dialed in. But I think some are expecting more quads, lol not sure about the last part.


----------



## Johnny Rook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Uhhmm... So why does your 780 have a water block on it?


FAIL
That was a HD5970... I had to put a block on it because it was so loud and hot. I do not want to spend $650 for a R9 290X with a block when my own GTX 780 cost me $600

EDIT
But, that doesn't mean I will not put a block in my GTX 780 when the warranty voids and I want to push for it 'til it dies


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Rook*
> 
> FAIL
> That was a HD5970... I had to put a block on it because it was so loud and hot. I do not want to spend $650 for a R9 290X with a block when my own GTX 780 cost me $600
> 
> EDIT
> But, that doesn't mean I will not put a block in my GTX 780 when the warranty voids and I want to push for it 'til it dies


There is no EK water block on your 780 right now?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> I figured I'd start with two. Technically I don't need that much speed since I'm only using those trip 1080 panels I got from you. Thus two 290x's should equal three to four 7970s once dialed in. But I think some are expecting more quads, lol not sure about the last part.


Hehe, I'm sure a 3rd will be coming in soon. I know you itch for those top spots in benches. I take that back, two more will be coming soon























Wanna see some one pick up three or four and run either 4k or 1440 Surround. My dells have dp so two more for 5x1 and that's pushing pixels between 1440 and 1600 surround/eyefinity.

What's your take on the Tom's Eyefinity crossfire review? Got some latency and still not there pacing criticism (a few comments tbh) but its definitely better then Tahiti 9.5 Richter scale seismographs.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> blind luck or not good call


Luck had little to do with such predictions.

One look at the rumored specs should have given everyone with even the vaguest experience the feeling that it would most likely match the 780 and Titan. I'd go so far as to say that anyone who didn't think doubling ROP count would result in a massive performance boost was either too delusional/biased, or too ignorant, to make any worthwhile predictions at all.

Cost wasn't much of a stretch either. With the ball back in their court, AMD could either price the card competitively enough to sell, or price it high and sell a lot less. Not much of a choice there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> SCREW YOU NVIDIA! Now I know what it feels like to get screwed the way Titan owners got screwed.


You weren't screwed by NVIDIA.

You bought a product you felt was worth the money for the performance at the time, and if you didn't, you screwed yourself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Overclocking head room looks troubling, let's hope that's not the case


It's likely the case, at least on air.

However, stock performance is what sells. The only thing headroom is good for, from an OEM's perspective, is as a buffer to respond to new releases from the competition, and to a lesser extent, to lower failure rates.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> 290 is going to be the best price/performance card for a while.


For the high-end, I suspect you are right, but this depends on how aggressively NVIDIA is willing to cut prices and ramp clock speeds.


----------



## Johnny Rook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> There is no EK water block on your 780 right now?


Not "right now", no.
If you are referring to the rig pics, they are from the build with HD5970 I had until June, 2013. The card wasn't cutting it anymore and I changed to the best I could afford back then, always thinking coming back to my beloved ATI (well, AMD), when R9 290X came out. I was really hopping for this card to beat the heck out of GTX 780. Unfortunately, it does so at expense of noise, heat and TDP, that is, at expense of everything else, just to get 4% overall better performance over the stock GTX 780. Damn! A GTX 780 with an OC every reference card can get 1100MHz, already beats the R9 290X. I was disappointed with R9 290X to say the least. I could make R9 290X work but, I had to put a block on it. That will bring the price over the $600 my GTX 780 cost me, in the first place. And I still had to live with the heat and TDP... No, that's a "NO GO" for me. I'll wait for next AMD cards.


----------



## stn0092

Regarding the 95°C load temperature that keeps coming up in reviews, is that using the default uber mode 55% fan speed? Are there any reviews that specify if they changed the default 55% to something higher?


----------



## Imglidinhere

Christ... I was NOT expecting to see THOSE numbers at all... xD

Excellent run AMD! Bout time someone drop kicked Nvidia in the face.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stn0092*
> 
> Regarding the 95°C load temperature that keeps coming up in reviews, is that using the default uber mode 55% fan speed? Are there any reviews that specify if they changed the default 55% to something higher?


It hits 95C in both modes, Uber just lets the clock speed stay a little higher, and it appears the tests in Uber were mostly still at 55% fan speed. HardOCP did some testing with 100% fan speed, but I'm not sure anyone else did.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> It hits 95C in both modes, Uber just lets the clock speed stay a little higher, and it appears the tests in Uber were mostly still at 55% fan speed. HardOCP did some testing with 100% fan speed, but I'm not sure anyone else did.


THG did too... though it wasn't part of the review, the reviewer spoke about the results.


----------



## mboner1

You guys talk to much. Slept for 6 hours and 80 pages were done, took another 6 hours of on and off to catch up.

The people asking for more out of the 290x are generally people with 780's trying to defend their purchase:

The 290x isn't for you, it's a side grade/ small upgrade to titan levels at stock.

Stock for stock the 290x is better than a 780. We don't care about your 780 OC right now. The 290x will overclock too when enough people get their hands on it.

It costs $500 less than a titan in Australia. It costs $100 less than a 780 in Australia.

Even on the stock cooler you can set it to never run hotter than 80 degrees if temperature is such a issue for you. Sure you will be sacrificing performance, but that's not your concern is it, temperature is. If you wanted performance you wouldn't complain about the temps in the first place.

The 780 is a fine card, i was looking at getting one myself, but as of now it's over priced, and beaten by the 290x. If you already have one please stop trying to justify it.


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stn0092*
> 
> Regarding the 95°C load temperature that keeps coming up in reviews, is that using the default uber mode 55% fan speed? Are there any reviews that specify if they changed the default 55% to something higher?


There is a video and audio of the fan at 100% and its something no human needs to hear...

This is coming from a 290x owner.

Mine will be under water asap


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> You guys talk to much. Slept for 6 hours and 80 pages were done, took another 6 hours of on and off to catch up.
> 
> The people asking for more out of the 290x are generally people with 780's trying to defend their purchase:
> 
> The 290x isn't for you, it's a side grade/ small upgrade to titan levels at stock.
> 
> Stock for stock the 290x is better than a 780. We don't care about your 780 OC right now. The 290x will overclock too when enough people get their hands on it.
> 
> It costs $500 less than a titan in Australia. It costs $100 less than a 780 in Australia.
> 
> Even on the stock cooler you can set it to never run hotter than 80 degrees if temperature is such a issue for you. Sure you will be sacrificing performance, but that's not your concern is it, temperature is. If you wanted performance you wouldn't complain about the temps in the first place.
> 
> The 780 is a fine card, i was looking at getting one myself, but as of now it's over priced, and beaten by the 290x. If you already have one please stop trying to justify it.












Well said.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> You guys talk to much. Slept for 6 hours and 80 pages were done, took another 6 hours of on and off to catch up.
> 
> The people asking for more out of the 290x are generally people with 780's trying to defend their purchase:
> 
> The 290x isn't for you, it's a side grade/ small upgrade to titan levels at stock.
> 
> Stock for stock the 290x is better than a 780. We don't care about your 780 OC right now. The 290x will overclock too when enough people get their hands on it.
> 
> It costs $500 less than a titan in Australia. It costs $100 less than a 780 in Australia.
> 
> Even on the stock cooler you can set it to never run hotter than 80 degrees if temperature is such a issue for you. Sure you will be sacrificing performance, but that's not your concern is it, temperature is. If you wanted performance you wouldn't complain about the temps in the first place.
> 
> The 780 is a fine card, i was looking at getting one myself, but as of now it's over priced, and beaten by the 290x. If you already have one please stop trying to justify it.


Spoken like a true fan









So you missed half the pages since you fell asleep and that's your deduction from half the thread?

Here's my take:

-I've seen complaints from ppl owning 7xxx series and Nvidia 7xx/6xx series.

-A few Nvidia owners will always find something to complain about the competition. Some 7970 owners were bickering when 780 came out as a true top tier card (Titan grossly overpriced). Not different then this.

-Heat, noise, and tdp are the most common complaints of 290X.

-Price and performance are the most praises coming from both sides. I applaud crossfire via pcie.

-Most haters own Nvidia cards but there have been disappointed amd customers too.

-Titan owners seem more defensive then 780 owners*. Come on now! $450 USD difference in msrp for the same or slightly there performance??? Yeah, sorry but Titan owners seem the most burned on this one. Their ammo still is "exclusivity", 6gb vram, and a slight advantage (slight is heavily emphasized here tbh).

*Some lucky bastards scored Titans for cheap. Those guys are grinning behind their screens. They won't share the secret of cheap Titans









-Besides the obvious, some folks still hating on pcie crossfire and Mantle. I look forward to the later and I'm waiting for more testing/reviews of the former (this looks like the future of multi gpu imho).

-290x is drawing parallels to GTX 480. I strongly feel 290X was rushed but in the end, amd delivered on performance. Like a corvette, it may not be refined or look pretty (especially the GM interiors, yuk), but it can deliver the performance to match rivals (previous gens, not new Stingray, need Jezer to get his hands on that one first).

-290X broke HWBot 3d11 4-way and single 290X records.

-Some folks started busting out M$ paint to show 290X hot performance....in cooking eggs. I followed (and some others) with GTX 480 classic George Foreman grill illustrations









-290x>780

-290X vs 780 Ti = Titan death imho (price drops, easier for me to go w/ quads since I already run three titan blocks).

-I'm on the fence: quad 290X on water with five (yes, five) 24" Dells 1920x1200 or four cheap titans (yes cheap, oxymoron w/ Titan but some ppl have done it) w/ three K 2560x1440 screens, or keep 780s and buy a new CaseLabs case and three K 2560x1600 monitors.

-Dell monitors are awesome! Best monitors I have own. Two more would be epic. Amd can provide this epicness Eyefinity setup. Don't have space or can't withstand wife's earful if I go 2x3









So, I've been up for a while, following and chatting and contributing and monkeying around, just enjoying the moment of a new piece of tech. I've unscribed from many, many, 290X threads I have partaken in the last few weeks. This one seems to be the place to be for anyone interested and wanting to have a friendly conversation (haha). I have no need to defend my cards to either Titan and 290X owners (and future Ti owners) or anyone. Heck, I'm not emotionally tied to them so I can easily sell them (if the wife don't find out







).

So, I have deducted a few more neutral, pros, and cons for both sides. And I have managed to keep up with thread. I'll sleep now. I think this thread has exhausted, many, many debates from haters and lovers. Typical new gpu launch stuff, you know









Btw, If you won't run water, wait for the aftermarket AIB cards with better coolers. Typical Amd fashion, this turbine is a let down. No wonder there was no reference 280X with the same cooler









edit: Oh, and someone already lost his/her cool in regards to Alatar.....


----------



## Treize Kordero

I'm impressed.. I really can see myself picking up 2 R9-290X.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> So you missed half the pages since you fell asleep and that's your deduction from half the thread?


No, i didn't miss half the thread, hence the 6 hours to catch up lol.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> No, i didn't miss half the thread, hence the 6 hours to catch up lol.


Ek has the blocks out so you can easily fix the heat issue with a block. Can't wait for the smexy HK blocks to launch.....XD

For someone coming off a 7970/7950, 290X is the right prescription if you want to retire your Tahiti. I still can't believe the price. Mostly all were speculating a price of ~$100-170 USD more. Those who got a 780 a while back (like me) we had our fun (mostly at the expense of Titan) for a few months, but things have to move on. Can't expect to be on or near the top forever. Maxwell will be around the corner and Ti is coming soon so more bickering should follow.

Oh, speaking of price and ordering. Did anyone successfully *ordered* a BF4 bundle? Not the pre-order mind you


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Ek has the blocks out so you can easily fix the heat issue with a block. Can't wait for the smexy HK blocks to launch.....XD
> 
> For someone coming off a 7970/7950, 290X is the right prescription if you want to retire your Tahiti. I still can't believe the price. Mostly all were speculating a price of ~$100-170 USD more. Those who got a 780 a while back (like me) we had our fun (mostly at the expense of Titan) for a few months, but things have to move on. Can't expect to be on or near the top forever. Maxwell will be around the corner and Ti is coming soon so more bickering should follow.
> 
> Oh, speaking of price and ordering. Did anyone successfully *ordered* a BF4 bundle? Not the pre-order mind you


I got mine on a first come, first serve basis same as everyone in Aus afaik


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> let us know how many people killed their 780s from modded bios and watercooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> latest titan arrived for $675, turned out to be a great overclocker


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I got mine on a first come, first serve basis same as everyone in Aus afaik


kewl









Do you know the price difference from the vanilla ones? Looking to see what markup they're doing for the actual game bundle.

Newegg: Sapphire 290X BF4 $579 USD, PC 290X $549 USD. Not bad for $30 USD. Usually, you can find coupons for 50% out there.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> And actually it is a very good comparison because watercooled/modded titans kill 780s.


let us know how many people killed their 780s from modded bios and watercooling.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> *Some lucky bastards scored Titans for cheap. Those guys are grinning behind their screens. They won't share the secret of cheap Titans


























latest titan arrived for $675, turned out to be a great overclocker


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> latest titan arrived for $675, turned out to be a great overclocker


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ill probably end up selling a titan for cheap if i end up liking the 290x that should be arriving today


Run the 290X as a physX card and vice versa. Would be interesting on what both setups will do


----------



## Noctizzle

I noticed today that overclockersUK added a custom cooled 290x to the lineup.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1752

I would be interested to see the temps on this.


----------



## selk22

I ordered one of those bf4 bundles you were talking about wermad. The Sapphire one it arrives today in about 12-14 hours


----------



## szeged

still no 290x in stock anywhere, i wanna grab another for crossfire testing


----------



## selk22

I am currently at 1200p and as much as id like another right now I am going to wait until I can afford to water cool them both at once. I also think that one 290x for 1200p is going to kick some serious butt. Time shall tell... I am just planning to go to sleep and its going to magically be at my doorstep...


----------



## Noctizzle

If anyone is interested - 290x with a Prolimatech MK26

"Originally Posted by rjkoneill View Post
stock clocks and fan speeds

85'C in heaven on stock cooler

55'C in heaven on MK-26 cooler

Overclocked at 1200 Core + 1.4V

stock cooler at 85'c with 100% fan speed

MK-26 cooler at 72'C with silent fans."

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25177410

Source


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> I noticed today that overclockersUK added a custom cooled 290x to the lineup.
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1752
> 
> I would be interested to see the temps on this.


There should be a few reviews floating around for this heatsink. Mind you this looks like its pushing 2.5-3 slots high and w/out fans (+25mm). I would imagine it will cool better albeit you gotta exhaust the hot air since its dumping inside the case.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> I ordered one of those bf4 bundles you were talking about wermad. The Sapphire one it arrives today in about 12-14 hours


Lucky







. Gonna look for a BF4 coupon to buy it for half. 1200 is gonna be rocked by your single Sapphire! No need for two tbh. When you're ready for Eyefinity (1080/1200) or 1600, the crossfire setup will give you the edge for those resolutions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> still no 290x in stock anywhere, i wanna grab another for crossfire testing


hehe, brings back bad memories of buying 780 at launch....took three weeks to finally get the 3rd after ordering the first









edit: peace, gotta get some zzz, lots of meetings and chores for tomorrow morning


----------



## Noctizzle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> There should be a few reviews floating around for this heatsink. Mind you this looks like its pushing 2.5-3 slots high and w/out fans (+25mm). I would imagine it will cool better albeit you gotta exhaust the hot air since its dumping inside the case.


Answered my own question Above. Seems like a massive drop.


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> If anyone is interested - 290x with a Prolimatech MK26
> 
> "Originally Posted by rjkoneill View Post
> stock clocks and fan speeds
> 
> 85'C in heaven on stock cooler
> 
> 55'C in heaven on MK-26 cooler
> 
> Overclocked at 1200 Core + 1.4V
> 
> stock cooler at 85'c with 100% fan speed
> 
> MK-26 cooler at 72'C with silent fans."
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25177410
> 
> Source


I think this shows that we are going to see some excellent coolers come out for this card that put it right in the heat range of a 580 or a 670. That's my hope anyway


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> Answered my own question Above. Seems like a massive drop.










&


----------



## Noctizzle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &


Surely thats a good thing though. I could live with 55 Degrees.

Shame the coolers are expensive, and add up to like 3/4 PCI Bays.


----------



## theilya

I would love to pay $100 extra for this card if it had a decent non ref cooler....


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> Surely thats a good thing though. I could live with 55 Degrees.
> 
> Shame the coolers are expensive, and add up to like 3/4 PCI Bays.


Wait for the custom AIB or get an Arctic Cooling (~2.5 slots) cooler later on


----------



## mltms

when we can see costom cooler for r9 290x


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mltms*
> 
> when we can see costom cooler for r9 290x


All we know is that we will be seeing them in less than three months


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> All we know is that we will be seeing them in less than three months


----------



## Heinz68

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TooBAMF*
> 
> Titan at $1000 today is stupid, but it was pretty stupid as soon as the 780 came out.
> 
> The 290X is not ridiculing the Titan in anything but price. Uber-mode on the 290X is analogous to the a Titan with a boost 2.0 disabled BIOS and an average overclock.
> 
> AMD just chose to push it to 94C instead of 80C like Nvidia did. The cards are very similar in everything but price. If the Titan's price drops significantly or if you can pick up a used one for ~$600 I don't think it's that bad of a buy.
> 
> Remains to be seen how far used prices will drop now.


$600 for used Titan, are you kidding? Even new Titan for $549, for me is a lousy deal.
My next gaming is going to be on 4K UHD, so by far the best deal is two R9-290X for $1098

HARDOCP benched R9 290X 10-23% faster than Titan, probably it's going to be even higher in Crossfire vs SLI
Quote:


> We found that the Radeon R9 290X was faster in every game compared to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 3840x2160. *It wasn't just a little bit faster either, it was anywhere from 10-23% faster. This is a significant difference.* At 4K resolutions, you need every bit of performance you can get to achieve playable performance at high in-game settings on a single video card. The Radeon R9 290X is clearly the card for Ultra HD 4K.


----------



## SniperOct

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> All we know is that we will be seeing them in less than three months


as soon as november


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heinz68*
> 
> $600 for used Titan, are you kidding? Even new Titan for $549, for me is a lousy deal.
> My next gaming is going to be on 4K UHD, so by far the best deal is two R9-290X for $1098
> 
> HARDOCP benched R9 290X 10-23% faster than Titan, probably it's going to be even higher in Crossfire vs SLI












Keep stepping all over the competition 290x.


----------



## MeanBruce

OCUK has some performance numbers on the R9 290 (without the X), shows it beating the GTX780

http://www.techpowerup.com/193205/radeon-r9-290-performance-figures-leaked-beats-gtx-780.html

Is the R9 290 REALLY as fast as the R9 290X in Quiet Mode? I'm hopeful for $399-


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> OCUK has some performance numbers on the R9 290 (without the X), shows it beating the GTX780
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/193205/radeon-r9-290-performance-figures-leaked-beats-gtx-780.html
> 
> Is the R9 290 REALLY as fast as the R9 290X in Quiet Mode? I'm hopeful for $399-


What a surprise. Another reference 780 "beaten", beaten by the overclocked card.


----------



## mfranco702

I dont know whats the hurry to buy these now!!! Buy now, complaint about temps tomorrow!, why don you folks wait until a better cooling design comes out for this grill, personally I believe MSI is releasing the lightning edition just like the 780 with triple fans, that's gona be a beauty....


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfranco702*
> 
> I dont know whats the hurry to buy these now!!! Buy now, complaint about temps tomorrow!, why don you folks wait until a better cooling design comes out for this grill, personally I believe MSI is releasing the lightning edition just like the 780 with triple fans, that's gona be a beauty....


if they do, itll be 2 months later than other custom cards, and end up having dog poo bios again lol.


----------



## rsuave

I am doing non stop reading and browsing the internet on how to install water block on gpu. I'm going water cooling on my build and just love to see what 290x can do.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfranco702*
> 
> I dont know whats the hurry to buy these now!!! Buy now, complaint about temps tomorrow!, why don you folks wait until a better cooling design comes out for this grill, personally I believe MSI is releasing the lightning edition just like the 780 with triple fans, that's gona be a beauty....


That would be just too long of a wait. I would prefer buying and installing an aftermarket cooler myself.


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What a surprise. Another reference 780 "beaten", beaten by the overclocked card.


Aw shucks, I try so hard, I'll never know as much as you guys, sniffle sniffle.


----------



## mfranco702

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> That would be just too long of a wait. I would prefer buying and installing an aftermarket cooler myself.


I believe the first aftermarket coolers available or waterblocks will take a while too, might as well just wait a little longer for a better looking and cooler card, besides the ones that come after have goodies, now is just a reference card with an ugly blower, IMO i'd just wait a bit.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Don't trick yourself... I have seen nothing you are right about since I been on this forum. You just make stuff up and post it add facts.


Prove it.

Present all my posts and prove all are totally wrong.

You can't.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfranco702*
> 
> I believe the first aftermarket coolers available or waterblocks will take a while too, might as well just wait a little longer for a better looking and cooler card, besides the ones that come after have goodies, now is just a reference card with an ugly blower, IMO i'd just wait a bit.


I find the r9 290x beautiful. Cooler just sucks :'(


----------



## $ilent

Any 290X owners having issues after installing your new card where wheneve you open a programme on windows your screen hangs and goes black for 5 seconds or so then comes back?


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Any 290X owners having issues after installing your new card where wheneve you open a programme on windows your screen hangs and goes black for 5 seconds or so then comes back?


Guys, you have a club. http://www.overclock.net/t/1436497/official-amd-r9-290x-290-owners-club

It might be best to go there for help.


----------



## Hattifnatten

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Present all my posts and prove all are totally wrong.
> 
> You can't.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> What a surprise. Another reference 780 "beaten", beaten by the overclocked card.


Actually, the stock 290 beats the stock 780 aswell.
But you're not totally wrong, the overclocked 290 beats it too


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> Benefits?
> 
> Sometimes, you find out that your existing hardware works better with one vendor over the other. Sometimes, your experiences with one company sway you to the other for a while. Sometimes, its the pursuit of performance.
> 
> Its a concept that about 95% of the users in this thread don't understand.
> 
> Everyone has different setups, and different hardware. Everyone has different experiences.


Funny thing is I remember you giving me hell over my EXPERIENCE with my 2x 7770s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> +1 My negative experience with my 6970+6990 pushed me over to the green side and I couldnt be happier here. That being said I wish that the 290x was a little bit more impressive to force Nvidia to do even better. But it just doesn't seem to be the case.


You obviously have no intention of ever buying an AMD GPU so why are you here? I mean aside from the purpose of bashing the 290X against all reason. You do know there is a 780Ti thread? You can go there and praise Nvidia till the cows come home.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyra*
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with this card, AMD have released something that Nvidia will have to react too but...
> 
> For people that don't want the absolute high end or could not afford more than one of these cards there are better options.
> 
> I know this isn't valid for all and it's only my personal position. I can afford 1 290X right now but why would I do that when I can have 2 GTX760s for less and have more performance?


There are more AMD equivalents that are still cheaper than the Nvidia ones. The 290X isn't the only one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaBestiaHumana*
> 
> At the price for performance, I don't care if the thing ran 120C, as long as it could withstand it. You can't have it all apparently. Something's gotta give.


That is the part I think a great deal many here are overlooking: it can run and maintain that temp within operation. This isn't like running a Titan at 90C or a 7970. There are options, blocks after market coolers for those not keen on the stock cooler.


----------



## MerkageTurk

R9 290x is just FailDozer


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> R9 290x is just FailDozer


Such intelligent reply, you sure showed everyone !


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> R9 290x is just FailDozer


It kinda destroys the 780 clock for clock at a lower price even when thermal throttling and the 780 boosting.
This with a good cooler is better than anything Nvidia has. (unless you need that 2GB of extra slower ram)


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> R9 290x is just FailDozer


Wow after 1700 post this is the best you could come up with.







Just Wow.


----------



## Noctizzle

Just throw this on it _Prolimatech MK-26 Multi VGA Cooler_ As its apparently compatabile.

Job done. Decent temps.


----------



## tpi2007

Hey guys, so what's up, I've missed the last 500 posts, anything to add to the OP ?

I added ExtremeTech's review to the OP, are there more ?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> If anyone is interested - 290x with a Prolimatech MK26
> 
> "Originally Posted by rjkoneill View Post
> stock clocks and fan speeds
> 
> 85'C in heaven on stock cooler
> 
> 55'C in heaven on MK-26 cooler
> 
> Overclocked at 1200 Core + 1.4V
> 
> stock cooler at 85'c with 100% fan speed
> 
> MK-26 cooler at 72'C with silent fans."
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25177410
> 
> Source


This is what I was talking about before I left a few hours ago. It mirrors my experience with my GTX 480. Back when it was released hot and late I actually registered an account on Nvidia just to let them know how unpleased I was. A crap cooler can really change someone's opinion on the worth of a card, especially since the AXP was only made available in October or so of 2010 (the card was released in late April).

The AXP and similar open air coolers together with a well ventilated case makes wonders. People usually didn't even think about changing the stock cooler of a GPU before 2010.

Since then I've changed my opinion on these power guzzlers. It's just the nature of the beast.

For reference I've got an Asus GTX 460 1 GB DirectCU and it makes more noise at load than the GTX 480 with the AXP, while keeping the same load temperatures, that says it all. The only thing is that the cooler is heavy so it needs support.

In any case, people are comparing apples to oranges. The R9 290X uses more power but it also has double precision turned on always and it has far more compute capabilities than the Titan even with double precision turned on. If you do that on a Titan it disables Turbo Boost and runs at 836 Mhz all the time. The GTX 780 doesn't even have that option.

So comparing the two (or three if you add the GTX 780 into the mix) is not that easy.

Yes, the cooler is crap, but here's what you do: play with it for a few days just to make sure it's working fine and then put an after market cooler on it just like I did with the GTX 480 back in April of 2011. You will still end up with a card that is cheaper than the GTX 780.

Should Titan owners feel bad or should AMD owners or fans mock Titan owners ? Well, they have had 8 months to enjoy the card and they are useful for things besides gaming, not to mention the large amount of memory is great for SLI, Tri and Quad SLI. Does it make sense for most gamers ? No, and neither does the i7-4960X, and you're paying the exact same premium for one.

GTX 780 owners have also had many months of enjoyment before the arrival of the 290X, it is a bit overpriced like I've said in other threads, but then again, did it have competition ? In any case, the price difference more than makes up for itself given for how many months people have been able to buy it and it still overclocks well and is a great gaming card.

The conclusion: if you have a Titan or a GTX 780, that's great. The real question is - if you are on the market for any of those two, should you buy one now ? Obviously not. The Titan is in an unsustainable situation, it was always a niche card and now it's on the verge of being in no-man's land. The GTX 780 obviously needs a price cut. Any buyers should just wait for a week or so, let's see what Nvidia does now.


----------



## Noctizzle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Hey guys, so what's up, I've missed the last 500 posts, anything to add to the OP ?
> 
> I added ExtremeTech's review to the OP, are there more ?
> This is what I was talking about before I left a few hours ago. It mirrors my experience with my GTX 480. Back when it was released hot and late I actually registered an account on Nvidia just to let them know how unpleased I was. A crap cooler can really change someone's opinion on the worth of a card, especially since the AXP was only made available in October or so of 2010 (the card was released in late April).
> 
> The AXP and similar open air coolers together with a well ventilated case makes wonders. People usually didn't even think about changing the stock cooler of a GPU before 2010.
> 
> Since then I've changed my opinion on these power guzzlers. It's just the nature of the beast.
> 
> For reference I've got an Asus GTX 460 1 GB DirectCU and it makes more noise at load than the GTX 480 with the AXP, while keeping the same load temperatures, that says it all. The only thing is that the cooler is heavy so it needs support.
> 
> In any case, people are comparing apples to oranges. The R9 290X uses more power but it also has double precision turned on always and it has far more compute capabilities than the Titan even with double precision turned on. If you do that on a Titan it disables Turbo Boost and runs at 836 Mhz all the time. The GTX 780 doesn't even have that option.
> 
> So comparing the two (or three if you add the GTX 780 into the mix) is not that easy.
> 
> Yes, the cooler is crap, but here's what you do: play with it for a few days just to make sure it's working fine and then put an after market cooler on it just like I did with the GTX 480 back in April of 2011. You will still end up with a card that is cheaper than the GTX 780.
> 
> Should Titan owners feel bad or should AMD owners or fans mock Titan owners ? Well, they have had 8 months to enjoy the card and they are useful for things besides gaming, not to mention the large amount of memory is great for SLI, Tri and Quad SLI. Does it make sense for most gamers ? No, and neither does the i7-4960X, and you're playing the exact same premium for one.
> 
> GTX 780 have also had many months of enjoyment before the arrival of the 290X, is was a bit overpriced like I've said in other threads, but then again, did it have competition ? In any case, the price difference more than makes up for itself given for how many months people have been able top buy it and it still overclocks well and is a great gaming card.
> 
> The conclusion: if you have a Titan or a GTX 780, that's great. The real question is - if you are on the market for any of those two, should you buy one now ? Obviously not. The Titan is in an unsustainable situation, it was always a niche card and now it's on the verge of being in no-man's land. The GTX 780 obviously needs a price cut. Any buyes should just wait for a week or so, let's see what Nvidia does now.


That was a very good reply









If i had to sit on the fence, i would probably Wait atleast a week to see what happens & how Nvidia reply.

What is more interesting is 1.4v for 1200 core. However, i suppose that depends on the overclocker / Card itself.

Also to iterate this point, "Yes, the cooler is crap, but here's what you do: play with it for a few days just to make sure it's working fine and then put an after market cooler on it just like I did with the GTX 480 back in April of 2011. You will still end up with a card that is cheaper than the GTX 780"

With an Aftermarket cooler it still comes in at £60 cheaper than the 780 in the UK - And currently we have a deal on at Dabs to get an r9 290x for £380. A STEAL.


----------



## malmental

So consensus states it's a good card but overclocked falls short of GTX 780, GTX Titan depending on game and resolution..
Isn't that how it's always been...?


----------



## mfranco702

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> R9 290x is just FailDozer


well, numbers prove otherwise... for now.
a $600 card which performs great for every penny, still my $800 SLI beats the 290X, Titan, 7990, 780 and 690 which is acceptable considering is only $150 more, satisfied so far


----------



## battleaxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> Just throw this on it _Prolimatech MK-26 Multi VGA Cooler_ As its apparently compatabile.
> 
> Job done. Decent temps.


That's actually a great idea. That cooler is only $60 and most of us have a few 120 or 140mm fans to throw on it. Problem solved for less than $70. That was easy.


----------



## Noctizzle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *battleaxe*
> 
> That's actually a great idea. That cooler is only $60 and most of us have a few 120 or 140mm fans to throw on it. Problem solved for less than $70. That was easy.


Indeed, my Circle of friends are in the process of doing this right now.

However, I have to stick with my 7850's with Icy Gelid's on them as i cannot warrant the spend


----------



## FoamyV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> So consensus states it's a good card but overclocked falls short of GTX 780, GTX Titan depending on game and resolution..
> Isn't that how it's always been...?


Arent' you getting a tad bit too anxious?







just wait a few more days for the people to get their cards and test em properly. We should see in the following days which cards OC's more and which is faster.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> So consensus states it's a good card but overclocked falls short of GTX 780, GTX Titan depending on game and resolution..
> Isn't that how it's always been...?


Consensus is card beats Titan clock for clock but throttles due to the poor cooler. (100% fan cools it down enough but that is unbearable.

Put a aftermarket cooler on this card and it can dominate.


----------



## battleaxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FoamyV*
> 
> Arent' you getting a tad bit too anxious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just wait a few more days for the people to get their cards and test em properly. We should see in the following days which cards OC's more and which is faster.


Yeah, I just love all the negative speculation, its awesome. I love Nvidia. I've got a 670 that I won the silicon lottery on so well it outperforms almost all 770's. So there's no way I'm getting rid of it. But I'm still excited about this ATI cards. Why can't we all just be reasonable and happy that Nvidia finally has some competition and ATI got its act together. No matter what you cannot argue with the pricing on this thing. Now Nvidia has a very good reason to lower the price on their cards too. That's only good for us. Its win/win for us all the way around whether we like ATI or Nvidia. I personally don't care. I like whatever card offers the most value/performance and right now ATI is looking really good. How can a sane person argue the price/performance on this thing? I just can't see how.


----------



## malmental

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> So consensus states it's a good card but overclocked falls short of GTX 780, GTX Titan depending on game and resolution..
> Isn't that how it's always been...?
> 
> 
> 
> Consensus is card beats Titan clock for clock but throttles due to the poor cooler. (100% fan cools it down enough but that is unbearable.
> 
> Put a aftermarket cooler on this card and it can dominate.
Click to expand...

We'll soon see I hope..
As for now I have no real opinions.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctizzle*
> 
> Indeed, my Circle of friends are in the process of doing this right now.
> 
> However, I have to stick with my 7850's with Icy Gelid's on them as i cannot warrant the spend


http://www.techspot.com/review/727-radeon-r9-290x/page3.html

looking at the tech spot review you would be looking at a downgrade in most games unless want that "fututre proofing" of more vram









the point of less heat, power and noise going back to a single card pretty much gets thrown out the wondow . .


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> 4k resolution results are great but the tech is still way too expensive for it to be relevant. I mean, why would I care that the 290X can beat Titan with 60+FPS at 4k when the only affordable 4k screen I could conceivably get is capped at 30Hz (Seiki). I know, I know, I have $2k in video cards so what's another $3500 for a monitor right? Wrong. My two 1440p monitors are absolutely perfect for my usage and I'm not spending that much on a monitor when the bulk of my usage is spent benchmarking rather than gaming. It is a very important point though that if YOU want 4k then the 290/290X is certainly the way to go. Just please get water blocks!


Because, that means if you are using extreme intense graphical mods, with tons AA/filters, extreme eye candy, 1080/1440P suddenly becomes like 4K. That's why.


----------



## Razor 116

For anyone worried about temperatures I suggest you read Anandtechs review of the 290 X. Also voltages in Uber Mode, Specifically asking this to Alatar, Where have you seen a reviewer say that Uber Mode raises voltages? Currently it would appear that nothing can even read the current voltage of a 290 x (At least in the reviews I've read) Max fan in "Uber" Mode is 55%, Max fan speed in "Quite" Mode is 45%.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opcode*
> 
> Don't forget your bling.


nice


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Because, that means if you are using extreme intense graphical mods, with tons AA/filters, extreme eye candy, 1080/1440P suddenly becomes like 4K. That's why.


tons of graphical mods?

you mean GTA4 and Skryim?

mods are great, but greatly exaggerated.

BF1942, Fallout 3, Skyrim, Oblivion, GTA4, Mass Effect 2, Crysis and Crysis 2 are the only OMG modding communities that I really thought was worth mentioning in the past 10 years. GTA4, Crysis, BF1942, and Oblivion in particular.

Nothing that warrants the "like 4k, that's why" level of performance though.

Regardless, he's a bencher first, gamer second.


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Because, that means if you are using extreme intense graphical mods, with tons AA/filters, extreme eye candy, 1080/1440P suddenly becomes like 4K. That's why.


This. And since RIGHT NOW I'm using 3X 30'' monitors at 7680X1600, and planning to go at 4k pretty soon, performance at high resolutions is pretty relevant to me...

And it's pretty disturbing that the AMD card, at HALF the price of the Titan, is doing 10-23% BETTER at those high resolutions... and with pretty early drivers! The Titan, at 2X the price, should do ALOT better then that with high-end gaming resolutions...

That's all. And 4K is coming fast. We can't hide. It's coming.









And if you're using 2-3-4X R9 or 2-3-4X Titans with 200$ monitors you're doing it WRONG!


----------



## szeged

4k might be more mainstream in 2 to 3 years and maybe affordable too, but at that point, the 290x will be dead and gone(from heat...jk..or am i?







) and 512bit with a buttload of rop's will be standard on the cards because amd and nvidia will continue to push 4k down everyones throat lol.

but until then, most of the world wont be using 4k, which is unfortunate, because it truly is beautiful watching stuff in 4k surround.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> This. And since RIGHT NOW I'm using 3X 30'' monitors at 7680X1600, and planning to go at 4k pretty soon, performance at high resolutions is pretty relevant to me...
> 
> And it's pretty disturbing that the AMD card, at HALF the price of the Titan, is doing 10-23% BETTER at those high resolutions...
> 
> That's all. And 4K is coming fast. We can't hide. It's coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if you're using 3X R9 or 3X Titans with 200$ monitors you're doing it WRONG!


where are you guys getting that?
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,27.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,28.html

6 games

Titan wins in 3
290X and Titan tie in 2
290X wins in 1 (hitman, surprise surprise)

*for now*, with the majority of people running "on air", dual Nvidia is still best suited for multi-GPU setups. SLI 780's still have plenty of OC potential, the R290X has supernova potential!

Obviously I expect the third party companies to rectify that with better coolers, but it's still to soon to know what OC potential those will bring (by then NVidia could drop prices/780ti)

BTW you game at a crazy crazy crazy resolution. That must be freaking awesome. Would you want 1 4k screen or 3?


----------



## Zen00

If you're planning on leaving a 7950 behind for this upgrade, let me know and I'll talk price with you for it.


----------



## Zen00

If you're planning on leaving a 7950 behind for this upgrade, let me know and I'll talk price with you for it.


----------



## SKYMTL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Any 290X owners having issues after installing your new card where wheneve you open a programme on windows your screen hangs and goes black for 5 seconds or so then comes back?


Close any and all background temperature monitoring programs including GPU-Z, HWInfo, etc.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> This architecture looks awesome for mobile also.


Yes! If you like melting phones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 4k might be more mainstream in 2 to 3 years and maybe affordable too, but at that point, the 290x will be dead and gone(from heat...jk..or am i?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and 512bit with a buttload of rop's will be standard on the cards because amd and nvidia will continue to push 4k down everyones throat lol.
> 
> but until then, most of the world wont be using 4k, which is unfortunate, because it truly is beautiful watching stuff in 4k surround.


4K surround looks terrible in ALLOT of titles, though, it also looks amazing in the few that are actually programmed to have that kinda width. From the demo's iv'e seen allot of games start fish-eyeing on the center monitor due to the stretch.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Yes! If you like melting phones.


The arch not the full Hawaii core.
GCN is the most power effective architecture on the market (7790 and such)
Super efficient


----------



## amd655

One nights rest.............


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The arch not the full Hawaii core.
> GCN is the most power effective architecture on the market (7790 and such)
> Super efficient


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Are you sure you are on the right site?
> 
> What does OC have to do with gaming? The only people who OC are people who bought the wrong card? What does that one even mean?
> 
> I've seen some nonsensical posts before, but this one is up there.


No, you are backing down from your statements.

My rebuttal was clear. Who do you know OC their rig for BF3..? (or any game?)

I've been gaming and OC for over 25 years dude, not one person I know OC (active oc'ing) for their games, they just dl, or create a game profile and when in game let's their drivers & mobo figure it out trough an OC profile.

I have never, in 30 years, herd someone poor LN2 on their rig, to go play a game. Never...

Nor have I ever seen someone with a volt meter tweak their board, then get into Battlefield for 6 hours.

You are simply stating a falsehood^. At most they use a game profile, tweaking their card's performance... but that is not OC'ing.

And again, if you bought a 760, instead of a needed 770... claiming your an OC'er won't make it a 770.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Consensus is card beats Titan clock for clock but throttles due to the poor cooler. (100% fan cools it down enough but that is unbearable.
> 
> Put a aftermarket cooler on this card and it can dominate.


Dont even bother...he's been trolling the whole thread. If he read one word of anything written in this thread or the reviews he wouldn't be posting anything at all.


----------



## Tippy

So we need to wait till Dec/Jan to see if an OC'd 290X on air can keep up with an OC'd 780/Titan on air.

Considering ref 780 boosts to 900mhz, ref Titan boosts to 873mhz and 290X is clocked all the way at 1ghz out of the box...it's a bit of a "no duh" scenario isn't it?


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> No, you are backing down from your statements.
> 
> My rebuttal was clear. Who do you know OC their rig for BF3..? (or any game?)
> 
> I've been gaming and OC for over 25 years dude, not one person I know OC (active oc'ing) for their games, they just dl, or create a game profile and when in game let's their drivers & mobo figure it out trough an OC profile.
> 
> I have never, in 30 years, herd someone poor LN2 on their rig, to go play a game. Never...
> Nor have I ever seen someone with a volt meter tweak their board, then get into Battlefield for 6 hours.
> 
> You are simply stating a falsehood^. At most they use a game profile, tweaking their card's performance... _but that is not OC'ing._
> 
> And again, if you bought a 760, instead of a needed 770... claiming your an OC'er won't make it a 770.


So if I have a 280x and I OC it from 1000 to 1200 to have even better framerates in BF3, I'm not an overclocker anymore?


----------



## anubis1127

Apparently overclocking doesn't count unless you use LN2..


----------



## cowie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> My rebuttal was clear. Who do you know OC their rig for BF3..? (or any game?)
> 
> I've been gaming and OC for over 25 years dude, not one person I know OC (active oc'ing) for their games, they just dl, or create a game profile and when in game let's their drivers & mobo figure it out trough an OC profile.
> 
> I have never, in 30 years, herd someone poor LN2 on their rig, to go play a game. Never...
> Nor have I ever seen someone with a volt meter tweak their board, then get into Battlefield for 6 hours.
> 
> You are simply stating a falsehood^. At most they use a game profile, tweaking their card's performance... _but that is not OC'ing._
> 
> And again, if you bought a 760, instead of a needed 770... claiming your an OC'er won't make it a 770.


Bro really you don't know me or my follow forums users .
To Volt mod and game is like sweet icing on the cake.
titan bf3




7980 SSII






Sub zero and gaming jajajaja its f'in greatness i could do that alll night long
bf3
over 1600+ on a gtx680










So really live alittle overclock for gaming it may not add aalll sorts of fps but we do it cus.....we do it cus we can.









It dont help me i still am no good at the game but i can say that NOBODY is running as fast as me that help my sucking at the game complex


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> Apparently overclocking doesn't count unless you use LN2..


Time to leave the site, I guess I don't overclock anymore


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Consensus is card beats Titan clock for clock but throttles due to the poor cooler. (100% fan cools it down enough but that is unbearable.
> 
> Put a aftermarket cooler on this card and it can dominate.


I'm not seeing it. Just looked at the Guru3d review.

Titan wins more at 4k. 290X wins (Hitman....that's pretty obvious)

To me, it seems like the 680/7970 race, but this time it's even closer.

So traditionally AMD favoring games will favor AMD, and traditionally Nvidia favoring games will favor Nvidia.

Games that are middleground seems to be learning towards the Titan more often than not.

It's really all just a matter of 1 or 2 frames, within margin of error.

Granted this is a 1k card vs a MUCH cheaper card. But if you're talking performance vs performance, it's a _SLIGHT_ nod to the Titan. (from what I've seen so far)

Winning some and loosing some in no way is a WAHOO moment for AMD. That's like when the FX 9570 beat the stock 4770k at some benches.....it was cute


----------



## motherpuncher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anubis1127*
> 
> Apparently overclocking doesn't count unless you use LN2..


Yeah I was confused by that myself, I thought when I crank up my card to 1235 on the core to play Witcher or metro, that was overclocking, considering those are not stock clocks on my card. Hell I even use the energy saving mode when I play Dishonored, so it's actually underclocked from stock. But maybe what I thought was overclocking all along actually wasn't? I didn't know I had to go to the extreme to be considered overclocking my card.


----------



## FoamyV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I'm not seeing it. Just looked at the Guru3d review.
> 
> Titan wins more at 4k. 290X wins (Hitman....that's pretty obvious)
> 
> To me, it seems like the 680/7970 race, but this time it's even closer.
> 
> So traditionally AMD favoring games will favor AMD, and traditionally Nvidia favoring games will favor Nvidia.
> 
> Games that are middleground seems to be learning towards the Titan more often than not.
> 
> It's really all just a matter of 1 or 2 frames, within margin of error.
> 
> Granted this is a 1k card vs a MUCH cheaper card. But if you're talking performance vs performance, it's a _SLIGHT_ nod to the Titan. (from what I've seen so far)
> 
> Winning some and loosing some in no way is a WAHOO moment for AMD. That's like when the FX 9570 beat the stock 4770k at some benches.....it was cute


Looking at a single review usually doesn't mean much. I can say "looking at anand's review the 290x is up to 23% faster than a titan at 4k". Why don't we wait and see what the next few days bring? Cherry picking hasn't and will never help anyone.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Double standards are at its best with fan boys.
Obviously as a fellow of ocn; I will be overclocking my gpu to gain more momentum in games. Not my problem if a competitor cannot overclock. I remember when people use to say how once a 7970 is over clocked it can beat X card etc


----------



## MerkageTurk

Edit : Double post


----------



## malmental

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Yes! If you like melting phones.
> 
> 
> 
> The arch not the full Hawaii core.
> GCN is the most power effective architecture on the market (7790 and such)
> Super efficient
Click to expand...


----------



## MerkageTurk

Lol


----------



## jameschisholm

Looking at benchmarks, The AMD Radeon R9-290X 4gb card is either beating the TITAN by a decent margin 10-30%, or it's a few fps behind(single digits).

Now in the UK the cheapest GTX TITAN is £799.99.

I'm looking at purchasing the MSI Radeon R9 290X 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card for £439.99. (doing the maths = £-360 cheaper!)

Bang for Buck, Hands down it goes to the 290X. Also looking at the specs, 5.6TFlops Compute and that larger Memory Bus for utilizing the 4gb GDDR5, for me gives the 290X the crown. (plus the obvious architectural refinements)

I'm giddy with excitement, as you should note my sig GPU is in need of Upgrading!


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FoamyV*
> 
> Looking at a single review usually doesn't mean much. I can say "looking at anand's review the 290x is up to 23% faster than a titan at 4k". Why don't we wait and see what the next few days bring? Cherry picking hasn't and will never help anyone.


You mean this one single game?










Hitman = AMD

Grid 2 = AMD

Every other game is in reach of a SLIGHT OC'ing on the conservatively clocked Titan with being acoustically annoying or stupidly hot.

Ironically enough, that companies of hero's picture doesn't really say much about AMD's CFX *yet*

Tremendous amount of performance at a terrific price, just terrible execution (unless you're under water)


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> Looking at benchmarks, The AMD Radeon R9-290X 4gb card is either beating the TITAN by a decent margin 10-30%, or it's a few fps behind(single digits).
> 
> Now in the UK the cheapest GTX TITAN is £799.99.
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing the MSI Radeon R9 290X 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card for £439.99. (doing the maths = £-360 cheaper!)
> 
> Bang for Buck, Hands down it goes to the 290X. Also looking at the specs, 5.6TFlops Compute and that larger Memory Bus for utilizing the 4gb GDDR5, for me gives the 290X the crown. (plus the obvious architectural refinements)
> 
> I'm giddy with excitement, as you should note my sig GPU is in need of Upgrading!


Wait for Nvidia's price drop or 780 Ti

Unless you're putting your GPU's under water...


----------



## jameschisholm

why?


----------



## skupples

837 is the BASE clock, & though it claims to boost to 876, that's a rather low real time boost.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> So if I have a 280x and I OC it from 1000 to 1200 to have even better framerates in BF3, I'm not an overclocker anymore?


You are correct^..

But, according to him, not me. (I play dvl's) Because to his kin, "OC" only means extreme overclocking and max deltas....

(ie: if it is not MAX.. then it is not an OC)

Otherwise, He & others.. would have to come to terms with reality, and admit to their ego, that every GPU can be overclocked, not just NVidia.

But that was His choice, he's backed himself into that corner.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> why?


Because unlike these GPU's, you can actually OC 780's and Titan's another 20-30%

Even in SLI. I'll have to reread some reviews, but some sites seemed to warn people about CFX'ing 290X's due to the heat. Two throttled 290X's will not fare well against 2 easily OC'd 1150mhz-1200mhz 780's

That's why "under water" makes a big difference


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> where are you guys getting that?
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,27.html
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,28.html
> 
> 6 games
> 
> Titan wins in 3
> 290X and Titan tie in 2
> 290X wins in 1 (hitman, surprise surprise)


Depends on review i suppose. Anandtech paints a different picture.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/8

290X pretty much mops the floor @4k here. Metro LL,COH 2, BF3,TW:R2,Crysis,Hitman A,Grid 2 are red, Crysis 3 a tie and Titan gets only Bioshock Infinite with DDoF enabled, without it's 290x again.


----------



## FoamyV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> You mean this one single game?
> 
> Hitman = AMD
> 
> Grid 2 = AMD
> 
> Every other game is in reach of a SLIGHT OC'ing on the conservatively clocked Titan with being acoustically annoying or stupidly hot.
> 
> Ironically enough, that companies of hero's picture doesn't really say much about AMD's CFX *yet*
> 
> Tremendous amount of performance at a terrific price, just terrible execution (unless you're under water)


I was merely rewording anandtech's conclusion







. We should have real results with proper cooling in the coming week.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> You are correct^..
> 
> But, according to him, not me. (I play dvl's) Because to his kin, "OC" only means extreme overclocking and max deltas....
> _(ie: if it is not MAX.. then it is not an OC)_
> 
> Otherwise, He _& others.. _would have to come to terms with reality, and admit to their ego, that every GPU can be overclocked, not just NVidia.
> 
> But that was His choice, he's backed himself into that corner.


soo according to his logic, there are only like 5 real overclockers here surrounded by a 300,000+ wannabees...


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Because unlike these GPU's, you can actually OC 780's and Titan's another 20-30%
> 
> Even in SLI. I'll have to reread some reviews, but some sites seemed to warn people about CFX'ing 290X's due to the heat. Two throttled 290X's will not fare well against 2 easily OC'd 1150mhz-1200mhz 780's
> 
> That's why "under water" makes a big difference


see^ ...?


----------



## pokerapar88

splendid! 92 pages of butthurt fanboys!


----------



## pyra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Are you sure you are on the right site?
> 
> What does OC have to do with gaming? The only people who OC are people who bought the wrong card? What does that one even mean?
> 
> I've seen some nonsensical posts before, but this one is up there.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are backing down from your statements.
> 
> My rebuttal was clear. Who do you know OC their rig for BF3..? (or any game?)
> 
> I've been gaming and OC for over 25 years dude, not one person I know OC (active oc'ing) for their games, they just dl, or create a game profile and when in game let's their drivers & mobo figure it out trough an OC profile.
> 
> I have never, in 30 years, herd someone poor LN2 on their rig, to go play a game. Never...
> Nor have I ever seen someone with a volt meter tweak their board, then get into Battlefield for 6 hours.
> 
> You are simply stating a falsehood^. At most they use a game profile, tweaking their card's performance... _but that is not OC'ing._
> 
> And again, if you bought a 760, instead of a needed 770... claiming your an OC'er won't make it a 770.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree


----------



## jameschisholm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Because unlike these GPU's, you can actually OC 780's and Titan's another 20-30%
> 
> Even in SLI. I'll have to reread some reviews, but some sites seemed to warn people about CFX'ing 290X's due to the heat. Two throttled 290X's will not fare well against 2 easily OC'd 1150mhz-1200mhz 780's
> 
> That's why "under water" makes a big difference


I have a 1 slot gap between my 2 PCIE GPU slots. What I've read is the temps are fine to be operating at 95c.

My plan is to have 1 290X ref card to begin with and run it at Quiet/uber mode clocks. Then later down the line buy a 2nd 290X (with a custom cooler WF3, Toxic, Direct Cu III ect..).

like this:

---Gigabyte WF3 290X---
1 slot gap (WF3 version has what 2-3 fans?, possibly better sinks too)
---MSI Reference 290X---
plenty of space for air flow


----------



## eternal7trance

And on that bombshell, this thread needs a cleaning


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Depends on review i suppose. Anandtech paints a different picture.
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/8
> 
> 290X pretty much mops the floor @4k here. Metro LL,COH 2, BF3,TW:R2,Crysis,Hitman A,Grid 2 are red, Crysis 3 a tie and Titan gets only Bioshock Infinite with DDoF enabled, without it's 290x again.


Just to take this one step further (civilly)

Metro: 290X wins by 9.3% in Uber Mode.(while using 17% more power...just throwing that out there)

Also while reaching 65dBa. Reference 7970 is at 53.5 (and THAT was bad). Reference Titan at 50.2 (still sort of high)

On Air (most of us here) It's quite simple to overtake that 290X with moderate OC'ing while still remaining comfortably cool and relatively silent.

Could you OC the 290X more, sure, but at what cost? (where water blocks may have the advantage)

Just the direction I see this (for performance vs performance)

Price of the Titan is still stupid. Can't argue that.


----------



## pokerapar88

for the ones that were not sure about what overclocking is:
" Overclocking is the process of making a computer or
component operate faster than the clock frequency specified by
the manufacturer by modifying system parameters (hence the
name "overclocking"). Operating voltages may also be changed
(increased), which can increase the speed at which operation
remains stable. Most overclocking techniques increase power
consumption, generating more heat, which must be dispersed if
the chip is to remain operational.
Aim:
The purpose of overclocking is to increase the operating speed
of given hardware. The trade-offs are an increase in power
consumption and fan noise, the system can become unstable if
the equipment is overclocked too much, and the risk of damage
due to excessive overvoltage or heat generation. In extreme
cases costly and complex cooling (e.g., water-cooling ) is
required."

Wikipedia

So, even if your gpu is 900mhz in the core and you do 901mhz you categorize as an overclocker.
Actually it is even fun how extreme overclockers are not even mentioned. why? because ln2 oc is not plausible for everyday use and the life of the conponents is reduced drastically. Besides ln2 oc's are purely for benchmarking.


----------



## amd655

From what i see...........

290x is the past time GTX 480, incredibly inefficient on it's standard cooling and loud if you let the fan go higher than 50%.

The only redeeming factor is price, the 780 completely walks away here on air cooling even if it does cost a bit more.

480 shined at 2560x1600, just as the 290x at 4k, but guess what? nobody has a 4k display, apart from jack and jill.

AMD users, welcome to Fermi.


----------



## jameschisholm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just to take this one step further (civilly)
> 
> Metro: 290X wins by 9.3% in Uber Mode.(while using 17% more power...just throwing that out there)
> 
> Also while reaching 65dBa. Reference 7970 is at 53.5 (and THAT was bad). Reference Titan at 50.2 (still sort of high)
> 
> On Air (most of us here) It's quite simple to overtake that 290X with moderate OC'ing while still remaining comfortably cool and relatively silent.
> 
> Could you OC the 290X more, sure, but at what cost? (where water blocks may have the advantage)
> 
> Just the direction I see this (for performance vs performance)
> 
> Price of the Titan is still stupid. Can't argue that.


95c at uber mode yes. But I bet at Quiet mode it's a fair bit less, with less noise. I've been reading reviews and it appears the "quiet mode" is no slouch either.

Just think these are the Reference cards. Wait and see what the AIB's coolers do to temps.

I would also imagine that in Crossfire, Quiet-mode is enough.


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> From what i see...........
> 
> 290x is the past time GTX 480, incredibly inefficient on it's standard cooling and loud if you let the fan go higher than 50%.
> 
> The only redeeming factor is price, the 780 completely walks away here on air cooling even if it does cost a bit more.
> 
> 480 shined at 2560x1600, just as the 290x at 4k, but guess what? nobody has a 4k display, apart from jack and jill.


Are you forgetting there's a lot of people that do multi monitor gaming?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> Are you forgetting there's a lot of people that do multi monitor gaming?


Nope, hardly anyone does multi monitor.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> 95c at uber mode yes. But I bet at Quiet mode it's a fair bit less, with less noise. I've been reading reviews and it appears the "quiet mode" is no slouch either.
> 
> Just think these are the Reference cards. Wait and see what the AIB's coolers do to temps.


Oh I'm sure they'll make it a MUCH better product. Here's my issue though..
Quote:


> Company engineers insulate you from having the same loud experience by implementing two firmware modes: Quiet and Uber. Quiet keeps the fan under 40% duty cycle. Uber lets it get up to 55%, and that's too loud for me. So, I stick with Quiet mode. Once Hawaii is at 95 °C and the fan hits 40%, frequencies start retreating quickly. It's not uncommon to see them bouncing between mid-700 to mid-800 MHz in single-card configs. In CrossFire, *they'll drop to 727 MHz and stay there*


Gaming for more than 5+ minutes will let the temps crawl up to 95C, then severely throttle your GPU's

The benchmarks are generally not long enough for the throttling to kick in. So while the Nvidia GPU's throttle at 70C and 80C, the benchmark may already be closed to done by the time the AMD GPU hits 95C.

So while the benches may run at 1000mhz, TomsH is saying that they're seeing 727mhz consistently while gaming. That is a BIG deal because 780's comfortably play at 1200mhz even in SLI.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just to take this one step further (civilly)
> 
> Metro: 290X wins by 9.3% in Uber Mode.(while using 17% more power...just throwing that out there)
> 
> Also while reaching 65dBa. Reference 7970 is at 53.5 (and THAT was bad). Reference Titan at 50.2 (still sort of high)
> 
> On Air (most of us here) It's quite simple to overtake that 290X with moderate OC'ing while still remaining comfortably cool and relatively silent.
> 
> Could you OC the 290X more, sure, but at what cost? (where water blocks may have the advantage)
> 
> Just the direction I see this (for performance vs performance)
> 
> Price of the Titan is still stupid. Can't argue that.


I just point stock/reference performance results for reference (lol). I would, too, think twice before buying a card with such a cooler, but neither do I find the "if i do this and that on a titan" discussion very relevant. I could still buy a very high end aftermarket air cooler to pair it with it and still pay in total a few hundred euros less. Now, comparing various 780 models to the 290X gets more interesting, since we more or less know what the green one can do. I expect some ocn users to report their findings, what clocks they can get with stock volts, if there is a way for the cooler to allow any sort of o/c wthout it sounding like a hairdryer next to your ear etc. Although to be honest I am looking more towards an affordable non-reference 290, if/when it exists


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Nope, hardly anyone does multi monitor.


So next you're going to tell me that people don't overclock for gaming too?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eternal7trance*
> 
> So next you're going to tell me that people don't overclock for gaming too?


Naa i will tell you that AMD named the card wrong.

Rename: 290x "niche" edition, Cater for 2% of market edition.


----------



## jameschisholm

So if I'm dead set on buying a 290X, I will be better off waiting for the non-ref cooler designs.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> So if I'm dead set on buying a 290X, I will be better off waiting for the non-ref cooler designs.


Yes.

They have this on OCUK, you just need your own fans.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> So if I'm dead set on buying a 290X, I will be better off waiting for the non-ref cooler designs.


*BIG TIME*

The AMD reference cooler is 4 times louder than a Titan. As loud as a vacuum cleaner. (@ 95% usage) So stock fan profiles are already pretty bad acoustically, very little wiggle room.

290X 74 dBA
http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> So if I'm dead set on buying a 290X, I will be better off waiting for the non-ref cooler designs.


If you're not putting it with water cooling, I would wait for non ref coolers.


----------



## Fresh Sheep

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> 95c at uber mode yes. But I bet at Quiet mode it's a fair bit less, with less noise. I've been reading reviews and it appears the "quiet mode" is no slouch either.
> 
> Just think these are the Reference cards. Wait and see what the AIB's coolers do to temps.
> 
> I would also imagine that in Crossfire, Quiet-mode is enough.


Quiet mode is still ~95 degrees, they just lowered the fan speed a tad.

I would wait till non-ref cards IMO. Maybe even wait to see what 780 ti does to pricing too.


----------



## amd655

LOL R9 290x does 74 decibels of ear damage..............

Passenger car at 65 mph at 25 ft (77 dB); freeway at 50 ft from pavement edge 10 a.m. (76 dB). Living room music (76 dB); radio or TV-audio, vacuum cleaner (70 dB).


----------



## jameschisholm

To be honest, I've only ever Overclocked my CPU. I'm not interested in water cooling for either my CPU or GPU (s) now or in the future, so WC is out.

I'm sure Asus said they plan on releasing a Direct Cu III design for the new cards, which is only 2-slot, is that true?
Quote:


> Yes.
> 
> They have this on OCUK, you just need your own fans.
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183


Wouldn't this take up 3-slots once the fans are attached?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Just my own speculation, AMD probably sacrificed as much materials as possible going into the cooler to keep the cost as low as possible and JUST enough to run at stock settings. Much like the intel stock CPU heatsinks lol.

Good for those putting it under water since you aren't wasting any money on the shroud you'll be tearing off anyways, but bad for "on air" early adopters


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> To be honest, I've only ever Overclocked my CPU. I'm not interested in water cooling for either my CPU or GPU (s) now or in the future, so WC is out.
> 
> I'm sure Asus said they plan on releasing a Direct Cu III design for the new cards, which is only 2-slot, is that true?
> Wouldn't this take up 3-slots once the fans are attached?


Yes, however 3 slot coolers usually perform excellently.


----------



## eternal7trance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just my own speculation, AMD probably sacrificed as much materials as possible going into the cooler to keep the cost as low as possible and JUST enough to run at stock settings. Much like the intel stock CPU heatsinks lol.
> 
> Good for those putting it under water since you aren't wasting any money on the shroud you'll be tearing off anyways, but bad for "on air" early adopters


You're probably right, the card is nice and a great deal, but the cooler is horrible.


----------



## jameschisholm

I "suppose" I could use a 3-slot cooler designed 290X for my single-gpu config. Then when I decide to Crossfire, move the 3-slot designed card to the other PCIE slot, and buy a 2-slot 2nd 290X for the top slot.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> I "suppose" I could use a 3-slot cooler designed 290X for my single-gpu config. Then when I decide to Crossfire, move the 3-slot designed card to the other PCIE slot, and buy a 2-slot 2nd 290X.


For two 3 slot coolers, you will need 2 PCI-E space between the cards, or breathing issues will definitely occur.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Yes.
> 
> They have this on OCUK, you just need your own fans.
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183


that design takes 4 slots. but the cooling was fantastic according to gibbo of ocuk . you need to connect two 120 mm or 140 mm PWM fans (4 pin)

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551550&page=2


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> I "suppose" I could use a 3-slot cooler designed 290X for my single-gpu config. Then when I decide to Crossfire, move the 3-slot designed card to the other PCIE slot, and buy a 2-slot 2nd 290X for the top slot.


No need for 3 slot coolers.

Surely the 3rd party partners will come up with some compelling 2 slot coolers. Until then, unless you're under water, the heat sink is just a bad Achilles heal; dare I say an incomplete product.


----------



## amd655

Wow 4 slots!!!!

Too much for me......


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Wow 4 slots!!!!
> 
> Too much for me......


You'll need an industry grade hammock to hold that bad boy up! Otherwise, RIP PCI slot


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> LOL R9 290x does 74 decibels of ear damage..............
> 
> Passenger car at 65 mph at 25 ft (77 dB); freeway at 50 ft from pavement edge 10 a.m. (76 dB). Living room music (76 dB); radio or TV-audio, vacuum cleaner (70 dB).


When^... does it reach 74 decibels?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> _When^... _ does it reach 74 decibels?


95% fan.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> _When^... _ does it reach 74 decibels?


Lacrosswacker


----------



## lacrossewacker

The problem I see is this....

Uber mode: 55% fan speed (already loud)










So after a few minues, you're only seeing about 750-825mhz on the core. For long term gaming (not short term benchmarks) that's an issue.

Raising the fan profile fixes one problem while creating another.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> I "suppose" I could use a 3-slot cooler designed 290X for my single-gpu config. Then when I decide to Crossfire, move the 3-slot designed card to the other PCIE slot, and buy a 2-slot 2nd 290X for the top slot.


unless you are at 4k single monitor or multi monitor there is no need for a crossfire r9 290x. get the prolimatech cooler based card. put a couple of Scythe 140 mm slipstream PWM fans and you can run the r9 290x at 1.2 ghz with voltage tweaking and still keep temps around 70c and with low fan noise.









http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-063-SY&groupid=701&catid=2331&subcat=1816


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just my own speculation, AMD probably sacrificed as much materials as possible going into the cooler to keep the cost as low as possible and JUST enough to run at stock settings. Much like the intel stock CPU heatsinks lol.
> 
> Good for those putting it under water since you aren't wasting any money on the shroud you'll be tearing off anyways, but bad for "on air" early adopters


Why "too bad" for early adopters..?

They are the first ones who get to play BF on it, then OC them in their own rigs and report back. These same people can easily put an $80 aftermarket cooler solution on their R9 and still be $20 bucks cheaper than a STOCK 780..!

Now, go ahead and get a stable 24/7 OC on each.. <

^^from that point.. is where anyone who claims anything about an OC 780 has to start from.

So, once "you people" realize that a stock R9 (290x) can beat a stock 780...

Then, what is going to happen when you moderately overclock each..? What deltas are going to be crossed, where the price difference is somehow ignored?

Now u might understand why Jen, last week was holding up a 780ti... & I am getting one of those too..


----------



## jameschisholm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> unless you are at 4k single monitor or multi monitor there is no need for a crossfire r9 290x. get the prolimatech cooler based card. put a couple of Scythe 140 mm slipstream PWM fans and you can run the r9 290x at 1.2 ghz with voltage tweaking and still keep temps around 70c and with low fan noise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-063-SY&groupid=701&catid=2331&subcat=1816


There is no way I'm paying £120 MORE, for what is essentially a GPU with a good heatsink, only then to buy 2 more items (fans) for it to operate for most likely another £15..

That would be £550 + 15 for fans.

When reference is £439


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> 95% fan.


Wow... ur quite dense.

When does it turn the fans up to 95%... (ie: what are you doing to it at the moment of those decibels...)


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> There is no way I'm paying £120 MORE, for what is essentially a GPU with a good heatsink, only then to buy 2 more items (fans) for it to operate for most likely another £15..
> 
> That would be £550 + 15 for fans.
> 
> When reference is £439


Grab a 780 then..... no need for custom cooler and won't rip your face off with noise, and won't be as good at cooking eggs though :/


----------



## amd655

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> There is no way I'm paying £120 MORE, for what is essentially a GPU with a good heatsink, only then to buy 2 more items (fans) for it to operate for most likely another £15..
> 
> That would be £550 + 15 for fans.
> 
> When reference is £439


yeah if you are ok to the fan noise in uber mode then go for it. the price/perf is unbeatable. remember even in quiet mode the R9 290X is close to titan perf.


----------



## skupples

after market air is normally only 10-15% cooler, on the BEST ones... @least, this has been my limited experience with 480's & different after market variations.

My 480's also required a 2nd 8 pin so it was 8+8+6... Same with 580 classi.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> after market air is normally only 10-15% cooler, on the BEST ones... @least, this has been my limited experience with 480's & different after market variations.


Hmm i went from 85c to 55c on stock clocks...............


----------



## Fniz92

People underestimate how bad the reference heatsink from AMD is.
Replacing the heatsink with something like MK-26 provides a decrease of 30c.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25174315#post25174315


----------



## Dynamo11

I've heard someone call the reference cooler "like a hairdryer"


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I'm not seeing it. Just looked at the Guru3d review.
> 
> Titan wins more at 4k. 290X wins (Hitman....that's pretty obvious)
> 
> To me, it seems like the 680/7970 race, but this time it's even closer.
> 
> So traditionally AMD favoring games will favor AMD, and traditionally Nvidia favoring games will favor Nvidia.
> 
> Games that are middleground seems to be learning towards the Titan more often than not.
> 
> It's really all just a matter of 1 or 2 frames, within margin of error.
> 
> Granted this is a 1k card vs a MUCH cheaper card. But if you're talking performance vs performance, it's a _SLIGHT_ nod to the Titan. (from what I've seen so far)
> 
> Winning some and loosing some in no way is a WAHOO moment for AMD. That's like when the FX 9570 beat the stock 4770k at some benches.....it was cute


If it isn't throtteling due to the high temps it is faster clock for clock


----------



## CallsignVega

4x 290x + 4K monitor inbound


----------



## jameschisholm

My 5850 I currently own is ref. idling at 61c at 27% fan. The R9-290X idles at 34c. It appears at full load both in quiet mode and uber, the 290X get's to 94/95c. Can the fans be really that loud?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Hey guys, so what's up, I've missed the last 500 posts, anything to add to the OP ?
> 
> I added ExtremeTech's review to the OP, are there more ?
> This is what I was talking about before I left a few hours ago. It mirrors my experience with my GTX 480. Back when it was released hot and late I actually registered an account on Nvidia just to let them know how unpleased I was. A crap cooler can really change someone's opinion on the worth of a card, especially since the AXP was only made available in October or so of 2010 (the card was released in late April).
> 
> The AXP and similar open air coolers together with a well ventilated case makes wonders. People usually didn't even think about changing the stock cooler of a GPU before 2010.
> 
> Since then I've changed my opinion on these power guzzlers. It's just the nature of the beast.
> 
> For reference I've got an Asus GTX 460 1 GB DirectCU and it makes more noise at load than the GTX 480 with the AXP, while keeping the same load temperatures, that says it all. The only thing is that the cooler is heavy so it needs support.
> 
> In any case, people are comparing apples to oranges. The R9 290X uses more power but it also has double precision turned on always and it has far more compute capabilities than the Titan even with double precision turned on. If you do that on a Titan it disables Turbo Boost and runs at 836 Mhz all the time. The GTX 780 doesn't even have that option.
> 
> So comparing the two (or three if you add the GTX 780 into the mix) is not that easy.
> 
> Yes, the cooler is crap, but here's what you do: play with it for a few days just to make sure it's working fine and then put an after market cooler on it just like I did with the GTX 480 back in April of 2011. You will still end up with a card that is cheaper than the GTX 780.
> 
> Should Titan owners feel bad or should AMD owners or fans mock Titan owners ? Well, they have had 8 months to enjoy the card and they are useful for things besides gaming, not to mention the large amount of memory is great for SLI, Tri and Quad SLI. Does it make sense for most gamers ? No, and neither does the i7-4960X, and you're paying the exact same premium for one.
> 
> GTX 780 owners have also had many months of enjoyment before the arrival of the 290X, it is a bit overpriced like I've said in other threads, but then again, did it have competition ? In any case, the price difference more than makes up for itself given for how many months people have been able to buy it and it still overclocks well and is a great gaming card.
> 
> The conclusion: if you have a Titan or a GTX 780, that's great. The real question is - if you are on the market for any of those two, should you buy one now ? Obviously not. The Titan is in an unsustainable situation, it was always a niche card and now it's on the verge of being in no-man's land. The GTX 780 obviously needs a price cut. Any buyers should just wait for a week or so, let's see what Nvidia does now.


The cooler on the 480 was not crap though. It was on the level of aftermarket cooling.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 4x 290x + 4K monitor inbound


Which monitor Vega? Asus?


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> My 5850 I currently own is ref. idling at 61c at 27% fan. The R9-290X idles at 34c. It appears at full load both in quiet mode and uber, the 290X get's to 94/95c. Can the fans be really that loud?


Well GTX 480 did around 50-60 decibels under load......
The 290x with an unlocked fan if you want lower temps at 95% fan speed is 74 decibels, nothing will block out that sound.

GTX 480 heavily stressed with Furmark = ~ 45 DBa
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/geforce_gtx_480_noise_levels_debunked.html


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> If it isn't throtteling due to the high temps it is faster clock for clock


No. Because 290x can also be power throttling. So reducing the temps won't fix the power throttle.

Edit: And, you should know this better than any other AMD card owners as most of whom have never experienced the joys of power throttling and Turbo (similar to Nvidia's boost 2.0)


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Grab a 780 then..... no need for custom cooler and won't rip your face off with noise, and won't be as good at cooking eggs though :/


It also won't be as fast or as inexpensive


----------



## GingerJohn

EK_tiborrr is reporting 45°C core temperatures in Furmark at 1200/1600 under water. That's pretty much in line with what my 7950 gets at similar clocks (1200/1500 1.3V).

I wonder how much the lower temperatures drop the power draw, that would be interesting to test (as Hardware Cannucks did with the 480 a while ago).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> Water temp ~ 33°C, full load 45°C Furmark IIRC @ 1200/1600MHz.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

I checked this thread like 60 pages ago...and in this very page the same nvidia trolls are STILL crying....damn that faster card, more vram and 100$ less price really hit the right spots.

meanwhile in Nvidia HQ, they are happy that mindless fans support their overpriced card, so everyone else that like Nvidia cards will be stuck with overpriced cards.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> It also won't be as fast or as inexpensive


ERR 780 is cheaper then the 290x with that aftermarket cooler... by quit a lot almost 100 pounds difference.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> So we need to wait till Dec/Jan to see if an OC'd 290X on air can keep up with an OC'd 780/Titan on air.
> 
> Considering ref 780 boosts to 900mhz, ref Titan boosts to 873mhz and 290X is clocked all the way at 1ghz out of the box...it's a bit of a "no duh" scenario isn't it?


The Titans that were tested boost to 970mhz.... so what were you saying now?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> EK_tiborrr is reporting 45°C core temperatures in Furmark at 1200/1600 under water. That's pretty much in line with what my 7950 gets at similar clocks (1200/1500 1.3V).
> 
> I wonder how much the lower temperatures drop the power draw, that would be interesting to test (as Hardware Cannucks did with the 480 a while ago).




Can everyone stop defending the reference heatsink now? We can all agree that it is crap and AMD was more concerned about noise than temperatures. With proper cooling this card is completely normal


----------



## amd655

Gigabyte WF 780...
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341

R9 290x OCUK Custom with no fans....
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I'm not seeing it. Just looked at the Guru3d review.
> 
> Titan wins more at 4k. 290X wins (Hitman....that's pretty obvious)
> 
> To me, it seems like the 680/7970 race, but this time it's even closer.
> 
> So traditionally AMD favoring games will favor AMD, and traditionally Nvidia favoring games will favor Nvidia.
> 
> Games that are middleground seems to be learning towards the Titan more often than not.
> 
> It's really all just a matter of 1 or 2 frames, within margin of error.
> 
> Granted this is a 1k card vs a MUCH cheaper card. But if you're talking performance vs performance, it's a _SLIGHT_ nod to the Titan. (from what I've seen so far)
> 
> Winning some and loosing some in no way is a WAHOO moment for AMD. That's like when the FX 9570 beat the stock 4770k at some benches.....it was cute


Look harder Lol. There is no slight nod to titan. It's fact the 290x is faster even while throttling. Can't wait to see it not throttling.


----------



## skupples

seem's more like they didn't care about noise or temp, they slapped just enough on there to keep it from exploding. Thus saving more money. 45C is good stuff, going to go find out what EK's bench consists of.

it's a win some lose some @ almost all resolutions, with 290X almost always winning @ 4k. factor that w/ price, combined with terrible stock cooler and it's a mixed bag of meh & wahooo.


----------



## amd655

If i am honest, the 290x holds the same value as the GTX 780 here in the UK with current prices, taking into account heat and noise too.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

I really think no one should buy these cards with ref. cooler if they plan to stay on it. Now, the Polimatech cooler is awesome for someone that don't plan to go CF (like myself). I don't care if it takes 4 slots.


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Look harder Lol. There is no slight nod to titan. It's fact the 290x is faster even while throttling. Can't wait to see it not throttling.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 4x 290x + 4K monitor inbound































What do you do for a living? (bank robber?)


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> The problem I see is this....
> 
> Uber mode: 55% fan speed (already loud)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So after a few minues, you're only seeing about 750-825mhz on the core. For long term gaming (not short term benchmarks) that's an issue.
> 
> Raising the fan profile fixes one problem while creating another.


And it still beats titan. Impressive.


----------



## jameschisholm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Gigabyte WF 780...
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341
> 
> R9 290x OCUK Custom with no fans....
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183


He meant the cheapest 780 vs the ref 290X. The 290x giving more perf is £100 cheaper.

I'm still unsure though. Wait for non ref like wf3 or direct cu 290x, buy a Gtx780 oc it or buy 1 ref 290x


----------



## piledragon

i think this say's it all, enjoy RED's


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> My 5850 I currently own is ref. idling at 61c at 27% fan. The R9-290X idles at 34c. It appears at full load both in quiet mode and uber, the 290X get's to 94/95c. Can the fans be really that loud?


If you don't change the fan speed it is not loud.

He is working overtime to deter you from buying a 290x and giving nvidia your money to encourage horrible pricing.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Look harder Lol. There is no slight nod to titan. It's fact the 290x is faster even while throttling. Can't wait to see it not throttling.


What site are those from? I keep forgetting who does those relative performance charts.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> What site are those from? I keep forgetting who does those relative performance charts.


Tech power up.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> If you don't change the fan speed it is not loud.
> 
> He is working overtime to deter you from buying a 290x and giving nvidia your money to encourage horrible pricing.


Just reading reviews
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tomshardware*
> Quiet and Uber. Quiet keeps the fan under 40% duty cycle. Uber lets it get up to 55%, and *that's too loud for me*. So, I stick with Quiet mode. Once Hawaii is at 95 °C and the fan hits 40%, frequencies start retreating quickly. It's not uncommon to see them bouncing between mid-700 to mid-800 MHz in single-card configs. In CrossFire*, they'll drop to 727 MHz and stay there.* The bummer is that a more effective thermal solution could keep acoustics down and allow Hawaii to operate toward the top of its range more consistently.


----------



## amd655

Here cheer up all and have a PARTAY...


----------



## piledragon

Quote:


> Here cheer up all and have a PARTAY...


yeah, that's the idea


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just reading reviews


Loud fan speed is opinion based... Also it throttles down to 700mhz and maintain the top. You still misinforming people that Titan is somehow faster? LOL you guys are real funny.


----------



## Neutronman

Good price, not happy about the temperatures and power though.....


----------



## 8mm

1) The cooling solution currently SUCKS and causes the cards to throttle
2) Despite throttling, they are beating Titan http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/8
3) Cranking the fans up increases the lead over the titan WITHOUT OVERCLOCKING since throttling is reduced (but uber loud without good case)
4) Putting these under water should both alleviate the acoustical problem AND increase performance since they won't throttle
5) With proper cooling, these cards should overclock like beasts. 3dMark11 World Record http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/
6) This is the most powerful single GPU card out right now, period.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> He meant the cheapest 780 vs the ref 290X. The 290x giving more perf is £100 cheaper.
> 
> I'm still unsure though. Wait for non ref like wf3 or direct cu 290x, buy a Gtx780 oc it or buy 1 ref 290x


Why don't you go water. If I was you and cant go water I would wait for 290X with Better Coolers. By waiting you also see if Nvidia drops prices on GTX780 and GTX780 Ti prices. No need to rush to by a 290X.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 4x 290x + 4K monitor inbound


Told you that it would be the card for you








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> No. Because 290x can also be power throttling. So reducing the temps won't fix the power throttle.
> 
> Edit: And, you should know this better than any other AMD card owners as most of whom have never experienced the joys of power throttling and Turbo (similar to Nvidia's boost 2.0)


Well at 100% fan it was cooler and no longer throttling.

So far there hasn't been anything to suggest power throttling.

But yeah I know what horror Boost 2.0 was and it would be a shame if AMD implemented some of those greenlight pranks.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> 1) The cooling solution currently SUCKS and causes the cards to throttle
> 2) Despite throttling, they are beating Titan http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/8
> 3) Cranking the fans up increases the lead over the titan WITHOUT OVERCLOCKING since throttling is reduced (but uber loud without good case)
> 4) Putting these under water should both alleviate the acoustical problem AND increase performance since they won't throttle
> 5) With proper cooling, these cards should overclock like beasts. 3dMark11 World Record http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/
> 6) This is the most powerful single GPU card out right now, period.


Depending on price I will be getting a 290. I think that is going to be the killer card with just a tad oc.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> 1) The cooling solution currently SUCKS and causes the cards to throttle
> 2) Despite throttling, they are beating Titan http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/8
> 3) Cranking the fans up increases the lead over the titan WITHOUT OVERCLOCKING since throttling is reduced (but uber loud without good case)
> 4) Putting these under water should both alleviate the acoustical problem AND increase performance since they won't throttle
> 5) With proper cooling, these cards should overclock like beasts. 3dMark11 World Record http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/
> 6) This is the most powerful single GPU card out right now, period.


BOOM. So straighforward and to the point, even provided proof. we should close the thread on this


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Loud fan speed is opinion based... Also it throttles down to 700mhz and maintain the top. You still misinforming people that Titan is somehow faster? LOL you guys are real funny.


TechpowerUP OC'ing results

*290X*: BF3 7.2% improvement
*Titan*: BF3 21% improvement

Secondly, Loud fan speed is "opinion based" to a point
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *techpowerupt*
> AMD's stock cooler is completely overwhelmed with the heat output of the card during voltage tweaking, though. Even at 100%, it could barely keep the card from overheating and was *noisier than any cooler I've ever experienced. My neighbors actually complained, asking why I used power tools that late at night.*
> 
> Power draw also increases immensely, going from just above 400 W for the whole system to around 650 W! To conclude, I expect extreme overlclockers with access to liquid nitrogen to love this card. Everyone else will probably find voltage tuning beyond +0.05 V to be *too hot and too noisy*.


The 290X reference card, great card, incredibly flawed.

The fact that you're defending the cooler/temps/noise is telling enough


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> TechpowerUP OC'ing results
> 
> *290X*: BF3 7.2% improvement
> *Titan*: BF3 21% improvement
> 
> Secondly, Loud fan speed is "opinion based" to a point
> The 290X reference card, great card, incredibly flawed.
> 
> The fact that you're defending the cooler/temps/noise is telling enough


Completely agree. The reference card is rubbish. Non-reference coolers and waterblocks are going to put this argument of 290x vs titan to rest.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> TechpowerUP OC'ing results
> 
> *290X*: BF3 7.2% improvement
> *Titan*: BF3 21% improvement
> 
> Secondly, Loud fan speed is "opinion based" to a point
> The 290X reference card, great card, incredibly flawed.
> 
> The fact that you're defending the cooler/temps/noise is telling enough


Yes the oc reault that throttle down to 700mhz still?

Nice try. Check what card top the work record then comeback and talk to me.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> 1) The cooling solution currently SUCKS and causes the cards to throttle
> *2) Despite throttling, they are beating Titan http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/8
> 3) Cranking the fans up increases the lead over the titan WITHOUT OVERCLOCKING since throttling is reduced (but uber loud without good case)*
> 4) Putting these under water should both alleviate the acoustical problem AND increase performance since they won't throttle
> 5) With proper cooling, these cards should overclock like beasts. 3dMark11 World Record http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/
> 6) This is the most powerful single GPU card out right now, period.


Flawed

test settings..









AMD cards don't throttle until 95C. it takes a few minutes for the throttling to kick in.

Gameplay wise though...different story.










This is quite mode and in CFX so it starts throttling sooner, but you can see how the throttling may not kick in by the time the benchmark is near complete. Meanwhile Nvidia cards downclock at 70c/80c.


----------



## battleaxe

Newegg has the Prolimi cooler for 65.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835242030

The 290x is 550. That's a total of $615 to me.

And it can now be overclocked to beat the band. No aftermarket air cooler is gonna touch that Prolimitech. This is the air equivalent to water cooling. (as close as we can get) I'd call that a steal. If someone buys the card and runs it as is they can run it stock (not on Uber mode). Its still a smashing deal and is within a few frames of the Titan/780 on everything while not being too loud or overbearing.

If you want to OC get the Prolimi or connect to your water loop. This isn't rocket science. So the stock cooler is crap? Who cares? Its good enough to get the job done til you can get something real to put on there. Same as the Titan. Anyone really wanting to push the Titan or the 780 is going to put it on water. Okay, so the stock cooler is a bit better/alot better on the stock card. Big freaking deal. This is not a deal breaker of any sort for a sane person who has a small bit of common sense and can remove 4 screws from the back of the stock GPU. If you can't do that then I guess you're stuck paying 1k for a Titan.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Yes the oc reault that throttle down to 700mhz still?
> 
> Nice try. Check what card top the work record then comeback and talk to me.


No sane person here cares, we want usable cards that do not disrupt the living space of people on Mars......

I went for a GTX 480 as it was cheaper than the 5870, i could not give a crap how much faster it is..... get it under a proper cooler than come back and wave your stick around with real results.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Yes the oc reault that throttle down to 700mhz still?
> 
> Nice try. Check what card top the work record then comeback and talk to me.


No, the one that throttled gave back *NEGATIVE* 1.7%
Quote:


> Actual 3D performance gained from overclocking in "Quiet" mode is -1.7%. This is because the card is running at the temperature limit when not overclocked, having to reduce clocks to not overheat. Overclocking the card then has power output go up disproportionally, which actually has the card downclock even more to handle the heat.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Flawed
> 
> test settings..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMD cards don't throttle until 95C. it takes a few minutes for the throttling to kick in.
> 
> Gameplay wise though...different story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is quite mode and in CFX so it starts throttling sooner, but you can see how the throttling may not kick in by the time the benchmark is near complete. Meanwhile Nvidia cards downclock at 70c/80c.


R9 290x is still faster than Titan and the more inferior 780 no matter how you spin it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> No, the one that throttled gave back *NEGATIVE* 1.7%


An it is still faster than titan....


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> R9 290x is still faster than Titan and the more inferior 780 no matter how you spin it.


Quote:


> It's not uncommon to see them bouncing between mid-700 to mid-800 MHz in single-card configs. In CrossFire, they'll drop to 727 MHz and stay there. The bummer is that a more effective thermal solution could keep acoustics down and allow Hawaii to operate toward the top of its range more consistently.


I'm sure those will compete with easily achievable 1150mhz+ SLI 780/Titans.


----------



## battleaxe

I have this urge to start measuring my you-know-what.... why is that?

This is going beyond ******ed. Can we all come to our senses here? Both the Titan/780 are good cards. So is the 290x, the performance is so close its not worth talking about. No-one knows how this thing is going to do until we get it on water. Same for the Titan. Same for everything else. Stock coolers suck. They always have.

The performance of the 290x is good, very good for the price. Nvidia cards are good too. Pick your color and enjoy yourself.

Right now the ATI camp gets the added bonus of spending a bit less. That's about all there is to it.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> An it is still faster than titan....


oh?

1080p (R290X) vs 1200p (Titan)

Titan ~4% faster @ a 11% high resolution.

Not to mention, acoustics is tolerable 24/7 a OC'd 780/Titan....


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> No sane person here cares, we want usable cards that do not disrupt the living space of people on Mars......
> 
> I went for a GTX 480 as it was cheaper than the 5870, i could not give a crap how much faster it is..... get it under a proper cooler than come back and wave your stick around with real results.


How is the card not usable when it tops the charts?









Please tell me.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> How is the card not usable when it tops the charts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me.


you really like stock clocks now don't you.
Quote:


> AMD's stock cooler is completely overwhelmed with the heat output of the card during voltage tweaking, though. Even at 100%, it could barely keep the card from overheating and was noisier than any cooler I've ever experienced. My neighbors actually complained, asking why I used power tools that late at night.


Acoustics isn't entirely subjective.

A gun is loud
A plane is loud
A vacuum cleaner is loud
74dBA is loud
R290X is loud


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> How is the card not usable when it tops the charts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me.


74DB when trying to bring the card down from 95c.........................................................


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> oh?
> 
> 1080p (R290X) vs 1200p (Titan)
> 
> Titan ~4% faster @ a 11% high resolution.
> 
> Not to mention, acoustics is tolerable 24/7 a OC'd 780/Titan....


We all know the 290X is throttling on the Uber Overclock.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> oh?
> 
> 1080p (R290X) vs 1200p (Titan)
> 
> Titan ~4% faster @ a 11% high resolution.
> 
> Not to mention, acoustics is tolerable 24/7 a OC'd 780/Titan....


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> oh?
> 
> 1080p (R290X) vs 1200p (Titan)
> 
> Titan ~4% faster @ a 11% high resolution.
> 
> Not to mention, acoustics is tolerable 24/7 a OC'd 780/Titan....


Yes throttling 290x vs oc titan, titan wins.









What is your point though?

Even in an nvidia game, titan gets a nice spanking and sent in a corner. Lol I even stopped looking at 780 in these benchmarks. Not worth mentioning.

All of that for less than $600








http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,20.html

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> you really like stock clocks now don't you.
> Acoustics isn't entirely subjective.
> 
> A gun is loud
> A plane is loud
> A vacuum cleaner is loud
> 74dBA is loud
> R290X is loud


And that's your opinion. And I respect it.

I however dont care how loud a fan is. Had to run my 4870 at 100% fanspeed to play games with overclock. Didn't bother me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 74DB when trying to bring the card down from 95c.........................................................


Thank for your opinion too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> We all know the 290X is throttling on the Uber Overclock.


It is the only way to show that titan wins in something


----------



## amd655

How is 74 decibels even an opinion???????

Your damn TV speakers at full whack would get drowned out by it, 74DB is hoover noise, the 480 is whisper quiet in comparison, 74DB is roughly 4 times louder than 60DB.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Yes throttling 290x vs oc titan, titan wins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your point though?
> 
> Even in an nvidia game, titan gets a nice spanking and sent in a corner. Lol I even stopped looking at 780 in these benchmarks. Not worth mentioning.
> 
> All of that for less than $600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,20.html
> *And that's your opinion. And I respect it.
> 
> I however dont care how loud a fan is. Had to run my 4870 at 100% fanspeed to play games with overclock. Didn't bother me.
> Thank for your opinion too.*
> It is the only way to show that titan wins in something


I have to respect your opinion too....but this is like saying "getting your penis cut off doesn't' hurt, that's just a matter of opinion!"

The fact is, the 290X's cooler at 95% (needed to maintain OC) is mathematically 4 times louder than a Titan) Can't argue that; and it DOES play a factor in the product, otherwise none of these sites would report on it.

Lastly, one of the reviewers actually described a situation where it'd affect your gameplay! Can't hear foot soldiers, can't hear bad guys, can't hear sound ques, etc...

No subtlety

Good product, horrible execution.

If you think the 290X is GREAT, then you must've thought the Titan was god's gift to mankind 8 months ago


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> No sane person here cares, we want usable cards that do not disrupt the living space of people on Mars......
> 
> I went for a GTX 480 as it was cheaper than the 5870, i could not give a crap how much faster it is..... get it under a proper cooler than come back and wave your stick around with real results.


GTX480 was worse with heat then this 290x, and had less Oc headroom on stock cooler. GTX480's with slight OC had no problem going upto 104c. You simply need better cooling.

Considering that you can keep the card in uber mode and toss the fan to 100% and get a solid increase just goes to show that the cooler truly can't keep it cool enough.

Anyone clocking their card 1100mhz+ simply is not going to get around the throttle factor.

Though Real cooling is Water Cooling, air cooling is so pleb








Wait for the Real air coolers if thats what you want to see.

You bought a GTX480 and are talking crap about 290x's heat.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fniz92*
> 
> People underestimate how bad the reference heatsink from AMD is.
> Replacing the heatsink with something like MK-26 provides a decrease of 30c.
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25174315#post25174315


time to wait a month for aftermarket cooled card reviews...

There's a mK-26 open box for $52 + $6.05 shipping http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835242030R
* two 140mm fans (or two 120mm if you want to gimp yourself)
* 320W TDP rated

$65 new MK-26 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835242030
* two 140mm fans (or two 120mm if you want to gimp yourself)
* 320W TDP rated

and a $75 Arctic Accelero Xtreme III http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186068
*three 92mm fans , max 2000RPM
* 300W TDP rated

and the $105 Accelero Hybrid http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186067
* 120mm (max 1350RPM , it's an Arctic F12 FDB) and 80mm (max 2000 RPM) fans
* 120mm rad

source of compatibility: http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-10/arctic-und-prolimatech-unterstuetzen-radeon-r9-290x/


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I have to respect your opinion too....but this is like saying "getting your penis cut off doesn't' hurt, that's just a matter of opinion!"
> 
> The fact is, the 290X's cooler at 95% (needed to maintain OC) is mathematically 4 times louder than a Titan) Can't argue that.


Titan is mathematically 2x the cost and got spanked.

Like I said I don't care for noise. I enjoy hearing my fans.

If it's too loud I change the cooler.


----------



## Distaste

I am a bit disappointed here. While the performance AMD was able to achieve is awesome, they clearly cut corners to achieve it. I'm not sure if this is a case of just saving money on heatsinks or just pushing their new chips in order to gain a lead on the 780/Titan. I'm no stranger to hot cards(470) but the fact that it's downclocking so often is not a good thing. I can overclock my 470 on reference cooler and never even get anywhere close to its thermal threshold; heat and power draw is fine as long as it doesn't effect me while gaming. The downclocking of the 290x though, is going to have a real impact during gaming and I'm curious to see what exactly that is.I fully await the benchmarks that start with the 290x already downclocking so we can get a real-world feel of how it will do for gaming.

Oh and those touting this card beats Titan and 780, I'd be way more surprised if it didn't. Those cards came out 6-9 months ago, almost every new generation of cards beats the last gen. There is honestly no "war" to win here. Sometimes AMD is ahead and sometimes NVidia is ahead, it doesn't matter as long as they are both still in the race to keep it competitive. If AMD couldn't put out a card better than the 780/Titan it would have been a huge issue for competition like how it is with Intel and AMD now. I might prefer Nvidia cards, but I sure as heck want AMD to succeed because that means better prices and faster cards.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> GTX480 was worse with heat then this 290x, and had less Oc headroom on stock cooler. GTX480's with slight OC had no problem going upto 104c. You simply need better cooling.
> 
> Considering that you can keep the card in uber mode and toss the fan to 100% and get a solid increase just goes to show that the cooler truly can't keep it cool enough.
> 
> Anyone clocking their card 1100mhz+ simply is not going to get around the throttle factor.
> 
> Though Real cooling is Water Cooling, air cooling is so pleb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait for the Real air coolers if thats what you want to see.
> 
> You bought a GTX480 and are talking crap about 290x's heat.


Except the 480 is far quieter than 290x, and did not reach 95c in every game lol.

And yes, i had a 480.... this is why i am emphasizing just how bad this 290x cooler is.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Titan is mathematically 2x the cost and got spanked.
> 
> Like I said I don't care for noise. I enjoy hearing my fans.
> 
> If it's too loud I change the cooler.


The Titan is whickedly overpriced now, *especially* now. I look forward to Nvidia dropping the price (if they feel so inclined to get off their high horse)

"If it's too loud, change the cooler"

Extra price. Getting towards the 780 $$$

Also, I don't think we know enough about how well 3rd party coolers will really do to mitigate this issue to confidently affirm the 290X > Nvidia

I bet it'll just take another month until we're settled with more third party boards, but we aren't too certain what the OC'ing potential is like (at least I'm not)

Some people are posting some great scores so far under water. That's great and all, but I'd like the sound of 90% of people hitting 1100+ or even higher. That'd make the card even more worth recommending.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Except the 480 is far quieter than 290x, and did not reach 95c in every game lol.
> 
> And yes, i had a 480.... this is why i am emphasizing just how bad this 290x cooler is.


Your complaining about the reference cooler. we all know it is bad. You have another month or two to poke at it before non-reference models come out and you have to go back in your green little hole.

Me on the other hand, my EK 290x block comes in on wednesday. Ill make sure to post plenty of proof that this is a very capable card for the money, and is indeed in contention for most powerful gpu.


----------



## provost

Every single Titan throttles too when oc'd.
Throttling is not an AMD invention, unfortunately, Nvidia wrote the book on it when they introduced the Titan with boost 2.0
This is why stock vs stock comparisons are now stupid between boost 2.0 Nvidia cards and AMD Turbo cards.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> Every single Titan throttles too when oc'd.
> Throttling is not an AMD invention, unfortunately, Nvidia wrote a book on it when they introduced the Titan with boost 2.0
> This is why stock vs stock comparisons are now stupid between boost 2.0 Nvidia cards and AMD Turbo cards.


Just for consideration

I have 2 780's (basically a Titan without the epeen)

Yeah, they throttle....to 1180mhz

Granted mine are 3rd party 780's so it's not apples to apples, but typically with nvidia, we're talking about a 17mhz, maybe 34mhz downclock.

Tomshardware was stuck at ~727mhz CONSISTENTLY


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> The Titan is whickedly overpriced now, *especially* now. I look forward to Nvidia dropping the price (if they feel so inclined to get off their high horse)
> 
> "If it's too loud, change the cooler"
> 
> Extra price. Getting towards the 780 $$$
> 
> Also, I don't think we know enough about how well 3rd party coolers will really do to mitigate this issue to confidently affirm the 290X > Nvidia
> .


I think it's very safe to assume that non-reference heatsinks will confirm this. Seeing how the 290x contends with 780 now using its rubbish excuse for a cooler is proof enough


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Your complaining about the reference cooler. we all know it is bad. You have another month or two to poke at it before non-reference models come out and you have to go back in your green little hole.
> 
> Me on the other hand, my EK 290x block comes in on wednesday. Ill make sure to post plenty of proof that this is a very capable card for the money, and is indeed in contention for most powerful gpu.


Green hole??

Interesting words...............

I do not favor each side......

I however love rubbing this in just as ATi/AMD did when Fermi launched.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> The Titan is whickedly overpriced now, *especially* now. I look forward to Nvidia dropping the price (if they feel so inclined to get off their high horse)
> 
> "If it's too loud, change the cooler"
> 
> Extra price. Getting towards the 780 $$$
> 
> Also, I don't think we know enough about how well 3rd party coolers will really do to mitigate this issue to confidently affirm the 290X > Nvidia
> 
> I bet it'll just take another month until we're settled with more third party boards, but we aren't too certain what the OC'ing potential is like (at least I'm not)
> 
> Some people are posting some great scores so far under water. That's great and all, but I'd like the sound of 90% of people hitting 1100+ or even higher. That'd make the card even more worth recommending.


Extra cost towards a card that is even faster than a 780. Why are you even mentioning the 780 lol?
Why would I buy a 780 at this point in time?
If you cared about cost you should have bought a reference 780.

Anyway, extra cost to a card that is even faster than the titan because it wont be throttling.

Oh now you want to pretend a 3rd cooler might not cool it?

Anything else while you are at it? 290x > Titan.

Ocing potential will be the same without throttling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just for consideration
> 
> I have 2 780's (basically a Titan without the epeen)
> 
> Yeah, they throttle....to 1180mhz
> 
> Granted mine are 3rd party 780's so it's not apples to apples, but typically with nvidia, we're talking about a 17mhz, maybe 34mhz downclock.
> 
> *Tomshardware was stuck at ~727mhz CONSISTENTLY*


And it still performed like a champ.


----------



## Levesque

The Titan should be 599$ now, and the 780 should go down to 499-549$ max...

If Nvdia were less greedy, that's what they would do...


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> I think it's very safe to assume that non-reference heatsinks will confirm this. Seeing how the 290x contends with 780 now using its rubbish excuse for a cooler is proof enough


I'm sure you're right, but here's part 2.

The 290X contends with the 780 now with a 1-2 minute benchmark.

What happens 5 minutes later? The 780 maintains performance while the 290X _appears_ to have a pretty drastic downclock.

Not discrediting benchmarks, but I don't think they're indicative of the entire picture; less so now than before.

It's almost like Samsung's phones running at a higher clock just for benches, only in this case, it's just environmental factors and not by intent.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> The Titan should be 599$ now, and the 780 should go down to 499-549$ max...
> 
> If Nvdia were less greedy, that's what they would do...


That will happen if people vote with their wallets.

Seeing some of the comments in this thread though...


----------



## bvsbutthd101

I just wanted to add to the fire









From Tom's Hardware
Quote:


> "We decided to forgo the video demonstrating what a 95% duty cycle sounds like. It's pointless and potentially bad for your long-term hearing. The noise is simply unbearable without commercial-grade ear protection."


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Extra cost towards a card that is even faster than a 780. Why are you even mentioning the 780 lol?
> Why would I buy a 780 at this point in time?
> If you cared about cost you should have bought a reference 780. *Gigabyte OC Same Price*
> 
> Anyway, extra cost to a card that is even faster than the titan because it wont be throttling.
> 
> Oh now you want to pretend a 3rd cooler might not cool it? *Not what I was saying*
> 
> Anything else while you are at it? 290x > Titan.
> 
> Ocing potential will be the same without throttling.
> And it still performed like a champ.*for 1-2 minutes*


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just for consideration
> 
> I have 2 780's (basically a Titan without the epeen)
> 
> Yeah, they throttle....to 1180mhz
> 
> Granted mine are 3rd party 780's so it's not apples to apples, but typically with nvidia, we're talking about a 17mhz, maybe 34mhz downclock.
> 
> Tomshardware was stuck at ~727mhz CONSISTENTLY


This is because AMD has built in a greater power throttle than Nvidia due to the size of the PCB. AMD has just taken a page out of Nvidia's playbook, and have set higher boost clock through the programmable chip out of the box. But, that higher boost clock is not sustainable due to two kinds of throttling ; temp and power. You can solve temp, but solving the power throttle would take work, if it can be done at all, assuming that components can handle it.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I'm sure you're right, but here's part 2.
> 
> The 290X contends with the 780 now with a 1-2 minute benchmark.
> 
> What happens 5 minutes later? The 780 maintains performance while the 290X _appears_ to have a pretty drastic downclock.
> 
> Not discrediting benchmarks, but I don't think they're indicative of the entire picture; less so now than before.
> 
> It's almost like Samsung's phones running at a higher clock just for benches, only in this case, it's just environmental factors and not by intent.


What benchmark or single player run last less than 120 secs?

See how pathetic your argument is getting now?

Anyways, please tell me.

Also that time to heat up is not linear. It will change from game to game.

makes your argument even more pathetic lol.


There is one that last well over 120 secs.

Oh here is another



Oh wait... Now you are going to tell me the time between load screens cool the card


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I'm sure those will compete with easily achievable 1150mhz+ SLI 780/Titans.


Just goes to show how much these cards stand to gain by increasing the fan speed, upgrading the air cooling, or going water. Despite this throttling, they are STILL kicking butt. The ridiculousness of performance increase once temperatures are lowered and Mantle dropping are going to be jaw dropping.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> *Except the 480 is far quieter than 290x,* and did not reach 95c in every game lol.
> 
> And yes, i had a 480.... this is why i am emphasizing just how bad this 290x cooler is.


Then a 290x in quiet mode. NO

The gtx480 at stock would get LOUD, noticeably loud. Maybe not Uber Mode Loud, but a good deal louder then Quiet mode.

My GTX470 would get near Ubermode loud

GTX480 and 470 still was able to go higher then 95c stock, maybe not every game would load to that point. But games like metro would take those cards past 95c, and Overclocking was much worse. Overclocking a gtx480 to the point where it doesn't go past 100c isn't the easiest thing if you want to get more then a few mhz.

Though etherway both are bad, Didn't sop me from loving the GTX4xx series. Tossed blocks on my gtx470's anyways, best thing I ever did. Cards were amazing for the time. Same goes for the 290x

Though considering that i'm moving to a new house on the 1st, I'll probably wait and pick up a 290 and a block when those drop to save a few bucks. Hoping those are $449


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Then a 290x in quiet mode. NO
> 
> The gtx480 at stock would get LOUD, noticeably loud. Maybe not Uber Mode Loud, but a good deal louder then Quiet mode.
> 
> My GTX470 would get near Ubermode loud
> 
> GTX480 and 470 still was able to go higher then 95c stock, maybe not every game would load to that point. But games like metro would take those cards past 95c, and Overclocking was much worse. Overclocking a gtx480 to the point where it doesn't go past 100c isn't the easiest thing if you want to get more then a few mhz.
> 
> Though etherway both are bad, Didn't sop me from loving the GTX4xx series. Tossed blocks on my gtx470's anyways, best thing I ever did. Cards were amazing for the time. Same goes for the 290x
> 
> Though considering that i'm moving to a new house on the 1st, I'll probably wait and pick up a 290 and a block when those drop to save a few bucks. Hoping those are $449


The only game to heat my 480 really high was Crysis, 90c..... it may have been because i already changed the thermal paste that i got better temps on the stock cooler, i however also went custom cooling too, 55c full load stock clocks lol.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> The only game to heat my 480 really high was Crysis, 90c..... it may have been because i already changed the thermal paste that i got better temps on the stock cooler, i however also went custom cooling too, 55c full load stock clocks lol.


That is what some people might do, change the cooler.

I do get where you are coming from saying AMD pulled a fermi.

However AMD's fermi cheap.


----------



## mxthunder

so they were calling it the titan killer for a different reason. price/perf vs just raw performance


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mxthunder*
> 
> so they were calling it the titan killer for a different reason. price/perf vs just raw performance


Your avatar is the best









It is called the Titan killer because of this though.


----------



## Vesku

It would be a Fermi if they had priced it at $700-750, "Quiet" mode was louder, and power draw was 50+ Watts more in that default "Quiet" mode than it is currently.

If Nvidia had launched GTX 480 at 5870 MSRP the bad initial impressions would have died over time much as I suspect they will die regarding launch 290X.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> I just wanted to add to the fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Tom's Hardware
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> "We decided to forgo the video demonstrating what a 95% duty cycle sounds like. It's pointless and potentially bad for your long-term hearing. The noise is simply unbearable without commercial-grade ear protection."
Click to expand...

Idiotic statement.

They measure 79.2dBA, which is not even close to the OSHA's normal recommendation of a maximum of 90dBa for a 8 hour work day:
Quote:


> OSHA sets legal limits on noise exposure in the workplace. These limits are based on a worker's time weighted average over an 8 hour day. With noise, OSHA's permissible exposure limit (PEL) is 90 dBA for all workers for an 8 hour day.


Source

You also don't need hearing protection until 85-90dBA, also as mandated by the OSHA.

I'm not saying that 80dBA isn't loud, it is unacceptably loud, but Tom's statement is simply absurd.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mxthunder*
> 
> so they were calling it the titan killer for a different reason. price/perf vs just raw performance


Amd never called it a titan killer. They specifically said they were aiming at the 780, and just so happened to produce titan like performance. Only thing they said was bf4 running mantle on a 290x would ridicule a titan, which at this point seems to be the case even with only a 10% increase in performance from mantle.

Most of what we heard were all rumors and community input, not AMD.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mxthunder*
> 
> so they were calling it the titan killer for a different reason. price/perf vs just raw performance


In my opinion, yes.


----------



## Hattifnatten

I'd like to point out to the people arguing about the time it takes before the card throttles, that the gpu-frequency graph in Metro is from a 120 second run. Which means that in uber-mode, the 290x starts to throttle around 25-30 seconds.

I sure as heck will get a waterblock for this beast, the stock cooler just can't handle it.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> Idiotic statement.
> 
> They measure 79.2dBA, which is not even close to what the OSHA's normal recommendation of a maximum of 90dBa for a 8 hour work day:
> Source
> 
> You also don't need hearing protection until 85-90dBA, also as mandated by the OSHA.
> 
> I'm not saying that 80dBA isn't loud, it is, but Tom's statement is simply absurd.


To his credit, the reviewer stated that he is very sensitive to noise. But its ridiculous that because of this, he didnt run many "uber mode" test or push fanspeed to 100 just to see what throttling would be under lower temperature circumstances.


----------



## rsuave

I'm in process of buying new gpu and titan were around but never bother to look at them because of the price. I like the power of the titan but getting screwed with no vaseline is painpull. Now comes 290x with titan like power for 1/2 price. Oh man, don't even have to think twice. I don't care how hot they are either, slapping a water block on it still lower price than a stupid 1k gpu.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EK_tiborrr*
> 
> Water temp ~ 33°C, full load 45°C Furmark IIRC @ 1200/1600MHz.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> What benchmark or single player run last less than 120 secs?
> 
> See how pathetic your argument is getting now?
> 
> Anyways, please tell me.
> 
> Also that time to heat up is not linear. It will change from game to game.
> 
> makes your argument even more pathetic lol.
> 
> 
> :










Battlefield 3 90 Seconds
ARMA3 30 seconds
Crysis 3 60 seconds




Skyrim 25 seconds





Interestingly, TomsHardware uses all VERY short benchmarks. Short enough so the 290X doesn't run into any throttling.

*On the other hand...HardOCP runs their benches for 6-8 minutes. Titan beat the 290X is EVERY benchmark.*

I think that is something to look into. Especially after seeing how dramatic the throttling is AFTER the few minutes.


----------



## Alienware69

Wow 95c. Nice AMD... those clowns are stuck in 2010? If they could match Nvidia without resorting to this crap I'd be imrpessed but this is just sad. I'd never buy this over a 780 sorry.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Wow 95c. Nice AMD... those clowns are stuck in 2010? If they could match Nvidia without resorting to this crap I'd be imrpessed but this is just sad. I'd never buy this over a 780 sorry.


In quiet mode it is cheaper and performs better than a 780 so your statement holds no ground.

With a aftermarket cooler it destroys the 780 but hey it is your money


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battlefield 3 90 Seconds
> ARMA3 30 seconds
> Crysis 3 60 seconds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skyrim 25 seconds
> 
> Interestingly, TomsHardware uses all VERY short benchmarks. Short enough so the 290X doesn't run into any throttling.
> 
> On the other hand...HardOCP runs their benches for 6-8 minutes. Titan beat the 290X is EVERY benchmark.
> 
> I think that is something to look into. Especially after seeing how dramatic the throttling is AFTER the few minutes.


Reply to the benches I posted above. Where nvidia cards are close to bottom of the list.

I am not arguing with you about titan and 290x anymore. Buy what you want and others will do the same.
It gets more pathetic with each post.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> In quiet mode it is cheaper and performs better than a 780 so your statement holds no ground.
> 
> With a aftermarket cooler it destroys the 780 but hey it is your money


destroys the 780 at what? Running at stock for 2-3 minutes then crapping a brick?

refer to my post above..


----------



## coolhandluke41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> I just wanted to add to the fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From Tom's Hardware
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> "We decided to forgo the video demonstrating what a 95% duty cycle sounds like. It's pointless and potentially bad for your long-term hearing. The noise is simply unbearable without commercial-grade ear protection."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idiotic statement.
> 
> They measure 79.2dBA, which is not even close to the OSHA's normal recommendation of a maximum of 90dBa for a 8 hour work day:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> OSHA sets legal limits on noise exposure in the workplace. These limits are based on a worker's time weighted average over an 8 hour day. With noise, OSHA's permissible exposure limit (PEL) is 90 dBA for all workers for an 8 hour day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Source
> 
> You also don't need hearing protection until 85-90dBA, also as mandated by the OSHA.
> 
> I'm not saying that 80dBA isn't loud, it is unacceptably loud, but Tom's statement is simply absurd.
Click to expand...

you kidding right ? you not making any sense genius ..first you admitting that's this card is stupid loud @ 79.2dBA and then you trying to make it sound like the extra 10dBa don't mean much sine you are already suffering ..


----------



## rsuave

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Wow 95c. Nice AMD... those clowns are stuck in 2010? If they could match Nvidia without resorting to this crap I'd be imrpessed but this is just sad. I'd never buy this over a 780 sorry.


I agree, I suggest 900D to replace your case before buying 290X


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> you kidding right ? you not making any sense genius ..first you admitting that's this card is stupid loud @ 79.2dBA and then you trying to make it sound like the extra 10dBa don't mean much sine you are already suffering ..


he's just saying that you don't need any real protection.

10dBA is DOUBLE though when it comes to how we perceive the sound.

Double the sound of a pen clicking...not a big deal. Double the sound of a jet engine...BIG DEAL


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Reply to the benches I posted above. Where nvidia cards are close to bottom of the list.
> 
> I am not arguing with you about titan and 290x anymore. Buy what you want and others will do the same.
> It gets more pathetic with each post.


Hardcop made a different conclusion than you did.
Quote:


> The R9 290X is performance comparable to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 2560x1600 (1600p) and lower (1080p.) In every game we played we were able to match the same gameplay experience as the GeForce GTX TITAN. That means that every game played the same between both video cards, the same performance, same in-game settings, and same smoothness. Performance in terms of frames per second was either right under, or right at TITAN FPS performance. The performance differences were so insignificant that those did not translate to any noticeable gameplay differences at all.
> 
> The situation changes when the Radeon R9 290X is pushed up to Ultra HD 4K display resolutions. Whatever magic AMD is doing at 4K, it is working. We found that the Radeon R9 290X was faster in every game compared to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 3840x2160. It wasn't just a little bit faster either, it was anywhere from 10-23% faster. This is a significant difference. At 4K resolutions, you need every bit of performance you can get to achieve playable performance at high in-game settings on a single video card. The Radeon R9 290X is clearly the card for Ultra HD 4K.


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> In quiet mode it is cheaper and performs better than a 780 so your statement holds no ground.
> 
> With a aftermarket cooler it destroys the 780 but hey it is your money


In quiet mode it still runs 95c... thats pathetic.

AMD just said screw it and pumped as much volts into the chip as possible just to catch the nvidia cards... lol not falling for it.

Nvidia could of done the samething and clocked the 780 like 200mhz higher at stock but who wants a 300w card that runs 95c all the time? Nvidia doesnt need to play those kind of games cause they have legit engineers and not these hacks.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> In quiet mode it still runs 95c... thats pathetic.
> 
> AMD just said screw it and pumped as much volts into the chip as possible just to catch the nvidia cards... lol not falling for it.
> 
> Nvidia could of done the samething and clocked the 780 like 200mhz higher at stock but who wants a 300w card that runs 95c all the time? Nvidia doesnt need to play those kind of games cause they have legit engineers and not these hacks.


Did you read anything on the 290x?
The cooler is the problem not voltage. The card runs at 1ghz.

Lol this posts is the funniest one yet.


----------



## piledragon

Quote:


> Hardcop made a different conclusion than you did.
> Quote:
> The R9 290X is performance comparable to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 2560x1600 (1600p) and lower (1080p.) In every game we played we were able to match the same gameplay experience as the GeForce GTX TITAN. That means that every game played the same between both video cards, the same performance, same in-game settings, and same smoothness. Performance in terms of frames per second was either right under, or right at TITAN FPS performance. The performance differences were so insignificant that those did not translate to any noticeable gameplay differences at all.
> 
> The situation changes when the Radeon R9 290X is pushed up to Ultra HD 4K display resolutions. Whatever magic AMD is doing at 4K, it is working. We found that the Radeon R9 290X was faster in every game compared to the GeForce GTX TITAN at 3840x2160. It wasn't just a little bit faster either, it was anywhere from 10-23% faster. This is a significant difference. At 4K resolutions, you need every bit of performance you can get to achieve playable performance at high in-game settings on a single video card. The Radeon R9 290X is clearly the card for Ultra HD 4K.


and now the sound of crickets ..................


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Did you read anything on the 290x?
> The cooler is the problem not voltage. The card runs at 1ghz.
> 
> Lol this posts is the funniest one yet.


ya the cooler is the problem ok. thats why it takes 80 more watts than the titan too right?

I dont care if you wanna fanboy it up but lets not lie. AMD took a weak chip and pumped it full of power to match Nvidias superior architecture. Not impressed AMD.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Reply to the benches I posted above. Where nvidia cards are close to bottom of the list.
> 
> I am not arguing with you about titan and 290x anymore. Buy what you want and others will do the same.
> It gets more pathetic with each post.


Just brush off every counter argument

Doesn't help yourself or anybody else trying to learn from this discussion.

Btw, that's a good find about the 4k part. That's great for AMD and the 1-2 people here with 4k









Is their bus width advantage the reason for that perf boost at 4k?


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> you kidding right ? you not making any sense genius ..first you admitting that's this card is stupid loud @ 79.2dBA and then you trying to make it sound like the extra 10dBa don't mean much sine you are already suffering ..


No, I'm saying that Tom's statement about it damaging your long term hearing and requiring "commercial grade" (whatever that is) hearing protection is absurd. For the record I used to do 12 hour day / 6 day weeks in power plants when I was commissioning them, wearing hearing protection to keep the noise level at or below 85dBA. My last hearing exam showed my hearing to be normal.

80dBA *is* stupidly loud, and I'm never going to argue that it isn't, but it isn't harmful.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> In quiet mode it still runs 95c... thats pathetic.
> 
> AMD just said screw it and pumped as much volts into the chip as possible just to catch the nvidia cards... lol not falling for it.
> 
> Nvidia could of done the samething and clocked the 780 like 200mhz higher at stock but who wants a 300w card that runs 95c all the time? Nvidia doesnt need to play those kind of games cause they have legit engineers and not these hacks.


A relatively quiet fan profile at 95c is pathetic? So do you avoid Intel CPUs like the plague because they run at a high temperature with reference cooling?


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> ya the cooler is the problem ok. thats why it takes 80 more watts than the titan too right?
> 
> I dont care if you wanna fanboy it up but lets not lie. AMD took a weak chip and pumped it full of power to match Nvidias superior architecture. Not impressed AMD.


My point was it's not highly clocked like your misinformed post stated. It is not clocked 200mhz higher than anything.

That weak pumped up chip is the fastest single gpu out now.

Thanks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just brush off every counter argument
> 
> Doesn't help yourself or anybody else trying to learn from this discussion.
> 
> Btw, that's a good find about the 4k part. That's great for AMD and the 1-2 people here with 4k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is their bus width advantage the reason for that perf boost at 4k?


That's what I thought. You have nothing to say about the benches I post.

Thanks for coming though.


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> A relatively quiet fan profile at 95c is pathetic? So do you avoid Intel CPUs like the plague because they run at a high temperature with reference cooling?


Intel CPUs take less power than AMD CPUs too. Im seeing a pattern. AMD can't keep up so lets take a fat slow chip up the volts til its almost at the thermal limits and sell that to the sheeple who think this is a miracle of engineering.

The 290X is just another FX9590. Thats why it overclocks like a pig


----------



## azanimefan

this thread is irritating.

a bunch of nerd rage + a bunch of fan boys = stupid headache inducing read.

I'm not even going to point fingers at one side or the other. though one side certainly is far more obnoxious, the other has it's share of morons too.

Now that I've vented my frustration, some interesting news to report. Apparently the *Accelero Extreme III* will work with the r9-290x. I'm looking for confirmation now, but if true (and it looks like it is, as other 3rd party heatsinks compatible with a GTX 680 seem to be working with the r9-290x) i think i now know what my xmas present to myself will be.

r9-290x BF4 ed + Arctic Accelero Extreme III = $20 less then cheapest 780 on newegg.

yep. that's gonna be my gift to myself. I was planning on getting BF4, so this will be pretty cool.


----------



## battleaxe

I'm unsubscribing from this mess.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mxthunder*
> 
> so they were calling it the titan killer for a different reason. price/perf vs just raw performance


It can still hang in the raw performance category
http://hwbot.org/benchmark/3dmark11_-_performance/rankings?cores=4#start=0#interval=20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Wow 95c. Nice AMD... those clowns are stuck in 2010? If they could match Nvidia without resorting to this crap I'd be imrpessed but this is just sad. I'd never buy this over a 780 sorry.


Your name is Alienware69 and you claim to be an audiophile but your avatar shows you wearing Beats Pros. Im not trying to get personal or judge a book by its cover or anything, but nobody is going to take you seriously. Go read all the different review out there. The little colored bars with the numbers represent the GPU performance. When the 290x bar is higher than the titan and 780 bar, that meants it did better. There are lots of times where the AMD bar is higher. Do ou need us to break it down any more than that?


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> In quiet mode it still runs 95c... thats pathetic.
> 
> AMD just said screw it and pumped as much volts into the chip as possible just to catch the nvidia cards... lol not falling for it.
> 
> Nvidia could of done the samething and clocked the 780 like 200mhz higher at stock but who wants a 300w card that runs 95c all the time? *Nvidia doesnt need to play those kind of games cause they have legit engineers and not these hacks*.


lul

Considering Nvidia's chip is a lot bigger. AMD is doing more with less transistors you know, if anything thats called excellent engineering.

You can fit more hawaii dies into a single wafer then you could GK110, what makes it cheaper to make as well. Cheaper to make, smaller, and performs better.

The Cheap cooler makes it run higher at stock, but aftermarket designs won't have that problem. Ref makes it so people that want to buy one to toss a block onto doesn't have to waste money on a ref cooler they will never use.

Plus the way its looking your gonna need more then 200mhz over the 290x on the gtx780 to beat it. So a 1200mhz 290x => a 1400mhz 780


----------



## Seid Dark

Hehe, it's quite funny to see some people claim that power consumption, heat and noise levels don't matter. Back in the Fermi days, it was all that mattered. GTX 480 ripped 5870 to shreds when properly cooled and oc'd but it was still branded failure.

Edit: less offensive


----------



## coolhandluke41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> you kidding right ? you not making any sense genius ..first you admitting that's this card is stupid loud @ 79.2dBA and then you trying to make it sound like the extra 10dBa don't mean much sine you are already suffering ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he's just saying that you don't need any real protection.
> 
> 10dBA is DOUBLE though when it comes to how we perceive the sound.
> 
> Double the sound of a pen clicking...not a big deal. Double the sound of a jet engine...BIG DEAL
Click to expand...

click that pen for hours next to you head and you will go nuts
it's close to 80dBa anyway you want to slice it = unacceptable =hidden low cost of this card


----------



## provost

If anyone cares to learn about what a power throttle is and max OC potential for this card :

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551414&page=4


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Fermi also ripped our wallets to shreds. I think that was the real problem.


480 launch price: $499. Not bad for card with huge die.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Bro if Nvidia wanted they could of made the titan a 300w chip that ran at 95c to. It would probably be like 1200 stock. But they didnt have to cause their engineers arent a bunch of MIT rejects.


A Titan @ 1300mhz can use near 500watts

GK110 kills hawaii in terms of power usage once you start overclocking like mad.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> My point was it's not highly clocked like you misinformed post stated. It is not clocked 200mhz higher than anything.
> 
> That weak pumped up chip is the fastest single gpu out now.
> 
> Thanks.
> *That's what I thought. You have nothing to say about the benches I post.
> 
> Thanks for coming though*.


It is interesting that the 290X pulls so far ahead at 4k.

But since you asked.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Cheapest price is 460€ in europe thats not too bad, considering there are EK blocks already available for 105€ aswell, because the default leafblower is unusable by my standards.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> let us know how many people killed their 780s from modded bios and watercooling.


Lol I was talking about watercooled/modded titans killing 780s in performance, not physically


----------



## brettjv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> Hehe, it's quite funny to see AMD people claim that power consumption, heat and noise levels don't matter. Back in the Fermi days, it was all that mattered. GTX 480 ripped 5870 to shreds when properly cooled and oc'd but it was still branded failure.


Certainly seems that opposite is also true (i.e. there will also be nV fans who defended Thermi at the time, now whinging about the heat of the new AMD cards







).

Bottom-line, folks, please stay away from baiting one another into silly 'personal' type arguments.

Personal attacks and trolling will not be tolerated on this thread.

IOW, the next person that posts the word 'fanboy' or some variation of 'lol u mad?' ... let's just say, we'll 'have words'


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> 480 launch price: $499. Not bad for card with huge die.


The huge die isn't my problem. I am a consumer. So of course the 5870 looked like the better buy when everything was factured in.


----------



## ejb222

First they said it cuoldnt be 512bit. Then they said it couldn't compete. Then they said it wouldn't be under $600. Then they said it couldn't OC.

Now they break records...in under 24hrs from release. Yeah it must be a crap card







Half the price of a Titan and I see all the people with $700+ cards complaining that it might need aftermarket cooling HA!!!!! This is like a David Lynch film.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The huge die isn't my problem. I am a consumer. So of course the 5870 looked like the better buy when everything was factured in.


Depends.... i got mine cheaper than any 5870 at the time, cheaper... the 480 was definitely worth it, slamming custom air onto it made it a whole new card.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> seem's more like they didn't care about noise or temp, they slapped just enough on there to keep it from exploding. Thus saving more money. 45C is good stuff, going to go find out what EK's bench consists of.
> 
> it's a win some lose some @ almost all resolutions, with 290X almost always winning @ 4k. factor that w/ price, combined with terrible stock cooler and it's a mixed bag of meh & wahooo.


It feels rushed and I can understand why they were busy (ps4/xbox1) but the card still delivers the performance #s. I'm pretty bummed out on the tdp, I really don't care for for heat as they would go under water, but I'm gonna need a new psu. Makes deciding more difficult.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 4x 290x + 4K monitor inbound


Yes







. Will be looking forward to power consumption #s in quad and three-way and your 4k figures. Do you have a capture card to check for latency?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> The Titan should be 599$ now, and the 780 should go down to 499-549$ max...
> 
> *If Nvdia were less greedy*, that's what they would do...


Qft
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> this thread is irritating.
> 
> a bunch of nerd rage + a bunch of fan boys = stupid headache inducing read.


Qft


----------



## Seid Dark

Here's a treat for British OCN users. I believe this is very first 290X with custom air cooling: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL



Looks really great, I would fit that with dual Scythe Gentle Typhoons







. This differs from DIY install by having 2 year warranty. CF would be pretty difficult on most motherboards though.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> The huge die isn't my problem. I am a consumer. So of course the 5870 looked like the better buy when everything was factured in.


GTX480 had crap drivers day one though.

The 5870 when the GTX480 launched was better buy going by the benchmarks, but after driver improvements the gtx480's pulled ahead by a good margin. To the point where the 5870 competes with a gtx470 in terms of gaming. And a Overclocked GTX470 is a good deal faster then a OCed 5870.

Though the huge price drop the gtx4xx series went through when the gtx5xx series was launching made them vary affordable, picked up my second gtx470 at that time used for $200.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> Hang on. You know when people moan about one card being better than another. Don't most people argue that u should only compare GPU' s in the same PRICE RANGE


Sure......

290x with no fans...
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183

Add some decent fans....
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-016-BX&groupid=701&catid=2331&subcat=1816

Gigabyte WF 780...........
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341


----------



## 8mm

They kick butt at stock, but for anyone wondering about top end potential...











I can only see this improving with drivers and aftermarket products.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> They kick butt at stock, but for anyone wondering about top end potential...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only see this improving with drivers and aftermarket products.


That smaller than Titan die is a beast it is like a fighting underdog








Now that AMD is back in the big die market Nvidia needs to do more than just make a huge die


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> That smaller than Titan die is a beast it is like a fighting underdog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that AMD is back in the big die market Nvidia needs to do more than just make a huge die


I definitely agree here, i mean everyone these days run LN2 for gaming anyway, so yes +1 to you.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> AMDs card is cheaper because it IS cheap. Its a garbage plastic cooler on a smaller die thats bloated with power to pretend its a big die.
> 
> Nvidia costs more because they have a legit premium product and dont need short cuts like letting the card run at 95c to get performance.
> 
> If you just care about stock benchmarks and love the sound of a vacum cleaner right next to your desk than this is a bargain though!


My EK block comes in next week and the card still costs less than a 780. What are you going to complain about to me then? My fps is too high?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> My EK block comes in next week and the card still costs less than a 780. What are you going to complain about to me then? My fps is too high?


Gstring


----------



## eternal7trance

So in conclusion, this card has really great price/performance but the cooler is horrible and should have not been used


----------



## brettjv

Nobody should be surprised when their posts disappear when they use words like fanboy or say 'you people this' or 'these people that' (and that includes quoting someone who used those terms)


----------



## Geeboi




----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> I definitely agree here, i mean everyone these days run LN2 for gaming anyway, so yes +1 to you.


People run reference coolers on AMD cards, oh yeah wait they don't.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> AMDs card is cheaper because it IS cheap. Its a garbage plastic cooler on a smaller die thats bloated with power to pretend its a big die.
> 
> Nvidia costs more because they have a legit premium product and dont need short cuts like letting the card run at 95c to get performance.
> 
> *If you just care about stock benchmarks and love the sound of a vacum cleaner right next to your desk than this is a bargain though!*


At stock it is quiet, and still faster then a stock gtx780.

So because Nvidia makes the first blower cooler that does completely suck everyone needs to do it?
I would rather save that money and have the crappy cooler, and I will never use it more then just to test the card if it works anyways.

Personally even the stock titan cooler is crap if your trying to get a great OC out of it, ether way REF IS CRAP. Wait for the AfterMarket Cards to come out, Coolers like the TwinFrozer will have no problem with this card.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> People run reference coolers on AMD cards, oh yeah wait they don't.


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Sorry im not wowed by *stock benchmarks*. If you can ignore all the shortcuts they pulled with this card hey its your money.


How about non-stock?


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> It is interesting that the 290X pulls so far ahead at 4k.
> 
> But since you asked.


did you read the source of that image.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534

"We tested the following cards:-

Titan - 993MHz / 6008MHz
R290X STD - 1000MHz / 5000MHz
R290X OC - 1060MHz / 6000MHz
R290X CF STD - 1000MHz / 5000MHz
R290X CF OC - 1050MHz / 5700MHz
- ???MHz / ????MHz
- ????MHz / ????MHz
R280 DC2TOP - 1070MHz / 6400MHz
R280 DC2TOP CF - 1070MHz / 6400MHz
KFA2 GTX 780 HOF - 1310MHz / 6700MHz
GTX 780 STD - 967MHz / 6008MHz
"

a 1310 mhz 780 HOF custom design beating a 1060 mhz R9 290X which is being held back by
1.) the stock cooler
2.) lack of custom pcb design with improved power delivery and cooling
3.) lack of msi afterburner voltage control.

you only proved how much slower the gtx 780 is







btw your math is wrong . the hof 780 at 1.31 ghz is 27- 28% faster than stock gtx 780 (126 / 99 and 82 / 64)


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> At stock it is quiet, and still faster then a stock gtx780.
> 
> So because Nvidia makes the first blower cooler that does completely suck everyone needs to do it?
> I would rather save that money and have the crappy cooler, and I will never use it more then just to test the card if it works anyways.
> 
> Personally even the stock titan cooler is crap if your trying to get a great OC out of it, ether way REF IS CRAP. Wait for the AfterMarket Cards to come out, Coolers like the TwinFrozer will have no problem with this card.


Yeah maybe but its still a power hog. Not really fair to compare it with 780 and Titan using 80 watts less. At the same power consumption the Nvidia cards would wreck this thing.


----------



## jameschisholm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Sure......
> 
> 290x with no fans...
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-055-TL&groupid=2180&catid=2183
> 
> Add some decent fans....
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-016-BX&groupid=701&catid=2331&subcat=1816
> 
> Gigabyte WF 780...........
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1341


Are you comparing a launch price custom cooled 290x which in my opinion at £551 is seriously overpriced (in fact £550 was the gtx 780 launch price) to a gtx 780 which has been out for months. The main comparison should be that gtx 780 you linked vs the launched aib ref cards of the 290x. The only reason that oc UK custom card is so expensive is the exclusivity of it


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*


Why do you think there are nearly no reference cooled 7970s to be found for sale since only watercoolers use them.
I thought everybody knew this.

I consider my reference 5870 quiet but it wasn't a power hog to begin with and it runs @21% fan @idle and like 38% at load totally quiet.
That was a good reference card due to there not being that much heat load on the crappy cooler this is just too overwelming for something that was used on a 6970 core. (the vapour chamber)

Point being if you want the card now just get the card smack on a aftermarket cooler still cheaper than 780 still higher clock for clock performance than Titan no throtteling.
This card is a win no matter how you look at it.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Personally even the stock titan cooler is crap if your trying to get a great OC out of it, ether way REF IS CRAP.


No.







There are people running 1300 MHz OC's with the stock Titan cooler. Don't make stuff up please.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Yeah maybe but its still a power hog. Not really fair to compare it with 780 and Titan using 80 watts less. At the same power consumption the Nvidia cards would wreck this thing.


It costs $100 less than a 780 and $450 less than a Titan, but we cant compare them because it uses more watts. Im not really sure what to say to that.

"Overclock.net, the pursuit of performance lower energy bills"


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Yeah maybe but its still a power hog. Not really fair to compare it with 780 and Titan using 80 watts less. At the same power consumption the Nvidia cards would wreck this thing.


Titan is using only around 30watts less while gaming
For about the same performance 1080p and 290x wins out in 4k. In quiet mode

Titan is also a larger die what allows you to play around with coreclock/voltages easier to bring power usage down, Nvidia simply has better Power Management on GK110 at stock. GK110 will blow past hawaii when it comes to OC power usage, 290x's VRM system will probably stop the card well before getting anywhere near 500watts. Same can't be said about the titan.

GTX780 is using 80less watts but also is behind in performance by a good %


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Wow 95c. Nice AMD... those clowns are stuck in 2010? If they could match Nvidia without resorting to this crap I'd be imrpessed but this is just sad. I'd never buy this over a 780 sorry.


You would never buy this over a 780??? Lol. That's lucky cos you already made your mistake and have a 780. Stop trying to justify your purchase. You spent more on a slightly slower card. Live with it, and stop trying to convime others to make the same mistake.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are people running 1300 MHz OC's with the stock Titan cooler. Don't make stuff up please.


But dat noise at 1300mhz

sorry but not for me









same reason why a waterblock would be tossed on a 290x, noise with blower coolers while overclocking is too much.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Titan is using only around 30watts less while gaming
> For about the same performance 1080p and 290x wins out in 4k. In quiet mode
> 
> Titan is also a larger die what allows you to play around with coreclock/voltages easier to bring power usage down, Nvidia simply has better Power Management on GK110 at stock. GK110 will blow past hawaii when it comes to OC power usage, 290x's VRM system will probably stop the card well before getting anywhere near 500watts. Same can't be said about the titan.
> 
> GTX780 is using 80less watts but also is behind in performance by a good %


Bit-tech's 290x test system jumped from 400W to 650W load when playing with the 290x voltage. I think this thing has capability beyond 500W, they were messing around on air


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are people running 1300 MHz OC's with the stock Titan cooler. Don't make stuff up please.


What? Top oc for most users on the titan club with a *waterblock* is 1300mhz.


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> It costs $100 less than a 780 and $450 less than a Titan, but we cant compare them because it uses more watts. Im not really sure what to say to that.
> 
> "Overclock.net, the pursuit of performance lower energy bills"


Overvolt the Titan and 780 til they take 300W and then compare. Then we'll see whos better.

AMDs architecture isnt in Nvidias league. Thats why they have to play petty little games like this to win stock benchmarks. If they could release a 250W card with this performance I'd be impressed.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Overvolt the Titan and 780 til they take 300W and then compare. Then we'll see whos better.
> 
> AMDs architecture isnt in Nvidias league. Thats why they have to play petty little games like this to win stock benchmarks. If they could release a 250W card with this performance I'd be impressed.


Overvolt titan draws ~500watt. Stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Overvolt the Titan and 780 til they take 300W and then compare. Then we'll see whos better.
> 
> AMDs architecture isnt in Nvidias league. Thats why they have to play petty little games like this to win stock benchmarks. If they could release a 250W card with this performance I'd be impressed.


How many times are we going to have to link this benchmark....


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> How many times are we going to have to link this benchmark....


What's that got to do with anything?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> What's that got to do with anything?


If you can't tell, then I don't know why we need to continue this debate.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> So we need to wait till Dec/Jan to see if an OC'd 290X on air can keep up with an OC'd 780/Titan on air.
> 
> Considering ref 780 boosts to 900mhz, ref Titan boosts to 873mhz and 290X is clocked all the way at 1ghz out of the box...it's a bit of a "no duh" scenario isn't it?


Not true, the Titan can boost a lot more than that.

Quote:


> Our Titan sample can boost its clockspeed by up to 19% (837MHz to 992MHz)


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6760/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-1/5

Quote:


> One thing to keep in mind about GPU Boost 2.0: because the technology is now temperature-based, it's even more sensitive to environmental influence. We monitored the feature's behavior across a number of games and, left untouched, core clock rates tended to stick around 993 MHz.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-performance-review,3442.html

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Yes! If you like melting phones.
> 
> 
> 
> The arch not the full Hawaii core.
> GCN is the most power effective architecture on the market (7790 and such)
> Super efficient
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

He's actually right, the HD 7790 has the best performance / watt ratio, which it snagged from the GTX 650 Ti.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7790_Dual-X/27.html

It's on top, and mind you, that card TechPowerUp reviewed is factory overclocked.


----------



## Alienware69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> If you can't tell, then I don't know why we need to continue this debate.


Dude 4 way sli has always been garbage that doesn't prove anything. lmao thinking that bench actually means something. Use your head come on bro.

Im saying watt for watt Nvidia is way better. AMD makde this video making fun of the 480 then turn around and make this hypocrite card cause they can't keep up with Nvidias innovation. And you guys want to act like its a godsend. SMH.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> Dude 4 way sli has always been garbage that doesn't prove anything. lmao thinking that bench actually means something. Use your head come on bro.
> 
> Im saying watt for watt Nvidia is way better. AMD makde this video making fun of the 480 then turn around and make this hypocrite card cause they can't keep up with Nvidias innovation. And you guys want to act like its a godsend. SMH.


CF scales better, once you get into more then one card it is pretty obvious the 290x is going to take the cake.

CF is now scaling around 95%, pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

And 30watts is not going to make a difference in terms gaming. your not running these cards 24/7, 30watts is nothing. Your still dealing with a bigger bus and more VRAM. Overall Performance per watt isn't far off from one another.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The arch not the full Hawaii core.
> GCN is the most power effective architecture on the market (7790 and such)
> Super efficient


I don't see how it is the most power efficient when it uses 50W more than a Titan for equal performance. It is a smaller die, but it isn't particularly power efficient.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> No, you are backing down from your statements.
> 
> My rebuttal was clear. Who do you know OC their rig for BF3..? (or any game?)
> 
> I've been gaming and OC for over 25 years dude, not one person I know OC (active oc'ing) for their games, they just dl, or create a game profile and when in game let's their drivers & mobo figure it out trough an OC profile.
> 
> I have never, in 30 years, herd someone poor LN2 on their rig, to go play a game. Never...
> Nor have I ever seen someone with a volt meter tweak their board, then get into Battlefield for 6 hours.
> 
> You are simply stating a falsehood^. At most they use a game profile, tweaking their card's performance... _but that is not OC'ing._
> 
> And again, if you bought a 760, instead of a needed 770... claiming your an OC'er won't make it a 770.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> You are correct^..
> 
> But, according to him, not me. (I play dvl's) Because to his kin, "OC" only means extreme overclocking and max deltas....
> _(ie: if it is not MAX.. then it is not an OC)_
> 
> Otherwise, He _& others.. _would have to come to terms with reality, and admit to their ego, that every GPU can be overclocked, not just NVidia.
> 
> But that was His choice, he's backed himself into that corner.


I have never, ever, said that only LN2 is overclocking. That was your interpretation, and I have no idea how you got it. Overclocking is running the card over stock settings, and almost everyone on this board overclocks, and most do it for gaming. I have no idea where you got the ideal that only LN2 counts as overclocking.


----------



## amd655

The video he linked just shows how bad ATi/AMD are at this whole GPU game.....

I have yet to see Nvidia take the piss like these immature plebs.

On that note i really like 290x for it's performance, however AMD just stabbed themselves by doing no Q&A.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> 4 way scaling doesnt matter for 99.99% of consumers so who cares?
> 
> Single and dual perf is all that realy matters and nvidia is fine at that.


omg! more proof! dat scaling
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,19.html


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gibbo*
> **UNDER-VOLTING**
> 
> Guys it seems the current drivers / BIOS have protection built in so the card won't allow you to under-volt it by any usable amount unfortunately.
> 
> Anything below 1225mv seems to trigger protection meaning it won't load to windows desktop until you do a full power off and on.
> 
> However going from 1250mv down to 1225mv has reduced temperature by 5c under-load with no ill-effect on stability at stock speeds with the card still set at +50 power with 1000Mhz core speed always.
> 
> If this protection gets removed by later drivers/BIOS the card in theory should be able to run fine around 1150-1200mv which should be good for a good 10c+ reduction in temps over stock. Seems you can get them to run pretty cool.
> 
> Infact its turning out to be quite a fun card for the tweaker/overclocker.


1.25v at stock?

No wonder these are running hot and no wonder gibbo was talking about 1.4v and 1200MHz...

Also for anyone posting toms last light frequency graphs of the 290X:



Also unless we get rid of posts with memes, name calling, etc. the thread will be locked for a while so everyone can cool off.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> omg! more proof! dat scaling
> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,19.html


Not impressed...... not exactly 6870 crossfire is it... now THAT was impressive!


----------



## provost

Just as reference - some might be from folks on this forum
http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/2+gpu


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> They kick butt at stock, but for anyone wondering about top end potential...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only see this improving with drivers and aftermarket products.


All that proves is that 4-way scaling is better. Where are the single card results? I didn't see any at all - do the early access guys not bother with single card benches?


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> But dat noise at 1300mhz
> 
> sorry but not for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> same reason why a waterblock would be tossed on a 290x, noise with blower coolers while overclocking is too much.


Hey, no one said anything about noise here.







Apparently the new AMD cooler is like a freaking jet engine, even well below 100% fan speed.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 1.25v at stock?
> 
> No wonder these are running hot and no wonder gibbo was talking about 1.4v and 1200MHz...
> 
> Also for anyone posting toms last light frequency graphs of the 290X:
> 
> 
> 
> Also unless we get rid of posts with memes, name calling, etc. the thread will be locked for a while so everyone can cool off.


This is a nice graph to compare whats actually happening when the cards starts to get a load. This is Uber mode:


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Not impressed...... not exactly 6870 crossfire is it... now THAT was impressive!


you want to see the scaling of R9 290X. its a powerhouse at 4K .

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,17.html
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing/Crysis-3


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 1.25v at stock?
> 
> No wonder these are running hot and no wonder gibbo was talking about 1.4v and 1200MHz...
> 
> Also for anyone posting toms last light frequency graphs of the 290X:
> 
> 
> 
> Also unless we get rid of posts with memes, name calling, etc. the thread will be locked for a while so everyone can cool off.


what do they have there? The worlds worst boosting Titan? Lol

You could do +200 on the core without even flinching


----------



## mboner1

63 degrees at 100% load with 100% fan speed shows a fair bit of wiggle room to find the sweet spot I would have thought. Don't know what the big deal is, after market cooler is available if your still not satisfied or water block. All for half the price of a titan. If you own a 780 and can't see the awesomeness of the 290x well I don't know what to say...


----------



## fateswarm

So, cooling experts, what are we supposed to get if we stick one of those humongous Xtreme III coolers on it? 20C less? 30C less?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> all I gotta say about you is lul
> 
> Power will go up every die shrink
> 
> Reason why the titan is the most power hungry chip nvidia ever made once you start overclocking it with a modded bios.
> 
> Power usage while gaming really isn't much higher then titan, not large enough to show a increase on your powerbill.


What do you think wll happen to 290X power consumption once you start overvolting it? It uses 30-50W more than Titan out of the box, I'd imagine both of them are going to go up pretty significantly when overvolted, but time will tell whether the 290X scales better (uses relatively less at higher voltages, I mean). And the only reason the extra power ocnsumption matters is because it means more heat to be dissipated. Those extra watts are contributing to the poor reference cooler performance.


----------



## mboner1

... Or 75% fan speed over clocked running benches and hitting only 56 degrees...


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> So, cooling experts, what are we supposed to get if we stick one of those humongous Xtreme III coolers on it? 20C less? 30C less?


GELID Icy Vision.

GTX 480 = 85c

GELID = 55c

30c drop.

Yes or more.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Lol I was talking about watercooled/modded titans killing 780s in performance, not physically


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> So, cooling experts, what are we supposed to get if we stick one of those humongous Xtreme III coolers on it? 20C less? 30C less?


ocuk was saying 30c lower.

EKWB is reporting 45c core temp on full load with furmark running on their 290x, which is about in line with titan's core under water. Hopefully that is a good indication of how the card can clock when properly cooled.

also, 20 pages of people going back and forth about these benchs done by reviewers without proper cooling and they dont realize how stupid it is...id break all my teeth out of my head if i facepalmed any harder.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> ... Or 75% fan speed over clocked running benches and hitting only 56 degrees...


75% thats like 55DB like a construction site ?


----------



## szeged

if you want your ears to bleed then fine









or we could wait till non reference cooling and waterblocks to try to compare.

starting to think amd dug through the trash to pull out that reference cooler.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BusterOddo*
> 
> $3.50 A YEAR!!! That's it now I'm not getting one. You ruined it for me... seriously I can't believe anybody still responds to this guy. It is very unfortunate.


Ok...here you go. 30w difference in cards. So if you used 30+ watts more per hour at 4 hours per day for 365 days a year that would be

30w x .001 = .03kw/h at .08/kwh that is .0024 x 4 = .0096 x 365 = 3.504/ year difference. Got it?

Edit...that is actually calculated at 4/per day and this is at max stock load right? So gaming would be less. And idle would be nothing.


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alienware69*
> 
> 4 way scaling doesnt matter for 99.99% of consumers so who cares?
> 
> Single and dual perf is all that realy matters and nvidia is fine at that.


You're getting desperate brah.... Titan doesn't matter for 99.9% of gamers either.

We have established:

290x > Titan/780 @ stock
290x > Titan/780 @ max ln2 overclock
290x is less expensive

Now you want to find the smallest possible green window to look at this to make you feel like you didn't waste your money. You're getting to the point where I wouldn't be surprised to hear you say the smell of the plastic on the 780 is better than the 290x...


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Now ear buds.


wait.. U wear earplugs when u OC.. ?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> You stated that nobody buys reference AMD cards, and stated only watercoolers do, which is total horse manure.
> 
> The whole point is... 290x is sold out, and the cooler is a disgrace.


on that subject....USA needs to get more in stock already. Did AMD not foresee them selling this fast and only sent places like newegg an entire 2 cards or something?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> if you want your ears to bleed then fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or we could wait till non reference cooling and waterblocks to try to compare.
> 
> starting to think amd dug through the trash to pull out that reference cooler.


Somebody did a side by side comparison with the 7970 reference cooler and it looked nearly identical to the 290x. Im guessing they didn't spend time on cooler R&D because they figured all their board partners would do it for them because nobody every buys reference boards for air cooling. And now that assumption is backfiring.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> on that subject....USA needs to get more in stock already. Did AMD not foresee them selling this fast and only sent places like newegg an entire 2 cards or something?


Probably though it was worse with the Titan that wasn't really available until 2 weeks after launch. (people had a bad time trying to snag them from each other)


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Somebody did a side by side comparison with the 7970 reference cooler and it looked nearly identical to the 290x. Im guessing they didn't spend time on cooler R&D because they figured all their board partners would do it for them because nobody every buys reference boards for air cooling. And now that assumption is backfiring.


yeah as soon as i saw the 290x reference cooler taken apart i dug out a friends dead 7970 reference model and had a look, seems amd spent their r&D money on the cooler on the top part to make it look as ugly as possible instead of perform as best as possible








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Probably though it was worse with the Titan that wasn't really available until 2 weeks after launch. (people had a bad time trying to snag them from each other)


oh i remember the titan launch debacle, 290x isnt as bad as that, atleast more than 5 people got one on day one.

hope 290x get back in stock soon, i wanna grab another one.


----------



## BusterOddo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Ok...here you go. 30w difference in cards. So if you used 30+ watts more per hour at 4 hours per day for 365 days a year that would be
> 
> 30w x .001 = .03kw/h at .08/kwh that is .0024 x 4 = .0096 x 365 = 3.504/ year difference. Got it?
> 
> Edit...that is actually calculated at 4/per day and this is at max stock load right? So gaming would be less. And idle would be nothing.


Dude sorry I was agreeing with you and poking at the Alienware guy not you







. I forgot to quote his post in mine. Totally my bad. Like I would care about $3.50/ year on my power bill.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> on that subject....USA needs to get more in stock already. Did AMD not foresee them selling this fast and only sent places like newegg an entire 2 cards or something?


Two ways of looking at it - either low stock was sent or they are so popular that they sold out quicker than expected.

Chose the reason that best suits your side, either way they are hard to get hold of. Heck, haven't even seen one in stock yet here in Canada.


----------



## Gunderman456

Looking more and more like a paper launch.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BusterOddo*
> 
> Dude sorry I was agreeing with you and poking at the Alienware guy not you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I forgot to quote his post in mine. Totally my bad. Like I would care about $3.50/ year on my power bill.


Sorry bro...getting a little tense around these parts. Honestly I probably will go with a 290 non x, when it hits sub $250 next year. That would be a sick upgrade to my 7850...even if I end up Xfire 7850 this year it would be a decent upgrade.

I'm really hoping to see MSI TF or HIS IceQ with temps in the 70s max when OCd. Then see some 1200-1300mhz core clocks stock voltage on air...I can't afford to be a serious OCer yet...especially when I'm trying to save for a diamond(and I dont mean GPU)


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> In case you nvidia guys missed it. 56 degrees at 75% fan profile over clocked and 100% load. What now?


now look again.

i have faith that you'll figure it out.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> So u can mod a card, just not an AMD one? Sorry to hear about ur disability. This is a AMD R9 290x thread.. no wonder why u r lost.


o.0 you asked me if i care about noise when overclocking, the answer is yes i do..

That cooler you see in the image stays frosty at 75c whilst pushing 885mhz at 1088mv, 1024mv is stock voltage...

920mhz stable at 80c max load 1188mv.....

I could even suicide at 950mhz core, but it maxes above 1.2v which i am getting around 85c.

So whilst all these crazy clocks are going, the card is not loud, the Noctua's are extremely quiet and push down enough air to dissapate the heat.

It may not be a pro job, but it is pretty damn tough to beat.


----------



## Roadkill95

I can't wait for GTX780 prices to drop! good job AMD


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gunderman456*
> 
> Looking more and more like a paper launch.


Except people have gotten and are getting their cards in the mail. So no, its not looking like a paper launch.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> Two ways of looking at it - either low stock was sent or they are so popular that they sold out quicker than expected.
> 
> Chose the reason that best suits your side, either way they are hard to get hold of. Heck, haven't even seen one in stock yet here in Canada.


I think it was some of both. Sapphire BF4 cards were in stock at Newegg for more than 12 hours, but they never got any Asus cards at all (that I saw). I think XFX was in stock for quite a few hours also. So the cards that were available stayed in stock longer than I expected, but they didn't have much variety. And Amazon still doesn't have any cards listed.

Strangest thing is where are all the non-BF4 cards? You'd expect the 'limited edition' bundle to be hard to find, but I think there was only ever 1 non-BF4 card available at Newegg.


----------



## BusterOddo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Sorry bro...getting a little tense around these parts. Honestly I probably will go with a 290 non x, when it hits sub $250 next year. That would be a sick upgrade to my 7850...even if I end up Xfire 7850 this year it would be a decent upgrade.
> 
> I'm really hoping to see MSI TF or HIS IceQ with temps in the 70s max when OCd. Then see some 1200-1300mhz core clocks stock voltage on air...I can't afford to be a serious OCer yet...especially when I'm trying to save for a diamond(and I dont mean GPU)


Lol at a little tense







Yeah another 7850 would be a nice bump in performance. I'm waiting on non-reference coolers for this 290x. Hey "non-serious" overclocking is still tons of fun! Diamonds are forever, and girls are still better than any graphics cards.


----------



## 250179

i held one in my hands at the store yesterday. had the opportunity to be the first one to have it. passed, went for a 780 ACX.


----------



## szeged

any word if the asus reference models will be forced into using gpu tweak like their other cards if we want voltage control etc?


----------



## roleki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Only if the Nvidia card is cheaper.


As if that will ever happen.

It is weird though - AMD continues to post losses (98M in Q113, 29M in Q213) but refuses to charge anywhere near "market value" for their products - market value being a relative term, of course. Now, as a consumer we can be happy with that, but, how long can they continue to keep the prices lukewarm before something has to give? They're going to get a huge raft of cash from the console hardware, but margin on those can't be that great. Kudos to them for resisting the opportunity to squeeze a few dollars more out of this gen GPU, but I hope they can keep it on the rails going forward.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> As if that will ever happen.
> 
> It is weird though - AMD continues to post losses (98M in Q113, 29M in Q213) but refuses to charge anywhere near "market value" for their products - market value being a relative term, of course. Now, as a consumer we can be happy with that, but, how long can they continue to keep the prices lukewarm before something has to give? They're going to get a huge raft of cash from the console hardware, but margin on those can't be that great. Kudos to them for resisting the opportunity to squeeze a few dollars more out of this gen GPU, but I hope they can keep it on the rails going forward.


The margin is great enough for this to happen.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1434987/zd-amd-q3-beats-expectations-returns-to-profitability


----------



## szeged

if amd sends more stock to the USA, im sure their loses will go way down, until then....looking at "auto notify" and "coming soon" on newegg


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> if amd sends more stock to the USA, im sure their loses will go way down, until then....looking at "auto notify" and "coming soon" on newegg


Nvidia was the same with Kepler though.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> It is weird though - AMD continues to post losses (98M in Q113, 29M in Q213) but refuses to charge anywhere near "market value" for their products - market value being a relative term, of course. Now, as a consumer we can be happy with that, but, how long can they continue to keep the prices lukewarm before something has to give? They're going to get a huge raft of cash from the console hardware, but margin on those can't be that great. Kudos to them for resisting the opportunity to squeeze a few dollars more out of this gen GPU, but I hope they can keep it on the rails going forward.


Thanks to consoles, AMD posts first profit in over a year
Quote:


> AMD promised a return to profitability in the second half of 2013, and it has delivered on that promise. The company's third quarter financials, released earlier this afternoon, show net income of $95 million on revenue of $1.46 billion. This marks AMD's first profit following four consecutive quarters of net losses. The last time the chipmaker turned a profit was in Q2 2012-and even that came after losses in the prior two quarters.
> 
> Sales of console chips can be credited almost entirely for AMD's return to the black. The company's revenue from processors and discrete GPUs declined in the third quarter, but sales of what it calls "semi-custom" chips boomed. AMD silicon powers the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4, which are both hitting stores next month.
> 
> Revenue for the Computing Solutions business fell both sequentially and compared to the same quarter a year ago. AMD attributes those declines to "decreased notebook and chipset unit shipments," which were "partially offset by an increase in desktop unit shipments."
> 
> Revenue for the Graphics and Visual Solutions business, on the other hand, increased dramatically. That business encompasses discrete GPUs, semi-custom chips, and game console royalties. While discrete GPU revenue was down across the board, sales of "semi-custom" chips helped the business almost double its revenue overall.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *roleki*
> 
> As if that will ever happen.
> 
> It is weird though - AMD continues to post losses (98M in Q113, 29M in Q213) but refuses to charge anywhere near "market value" for their products - market value being a relative term, of course. Now, as a consumer we can be happy with that, but, how long can they continue to keep the prices lukewarm before something has to give? They're going to get a huge raft of cash from the console hardware, but margin on those can't be that great. Kudos to them for resisting the opportunity to squeeze a few dollars more out of this gen GPU, but I hope they can keep it on the rails going forward.


Blame AMD's CPU division, their GPU side is doing fine.

Plus they turned a profit this last quarter.


----------



## Blackops_2

So general consensus of what Info we've had is the cards OC adequately once cooled properly. They were just launched with an inadequate reference cooler limiting OCing headroom as well becoming a hairdryer/heater? This is going off of the EK post Bencher quoted and Gibbs results. Though $ilent did bench at 1125/1450 not bad IMO just again temps are still very hot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Blame AMD's CPU division, their GPU side is doing fine.
> 
> Plus they turned a profit this last quarter.


Agreed GPU wise AMD has been doing good since the 4000 series, or IMO at least that's when they regained competitiveness.


----------



## Asterra

So my new 290X caused an old *giant mouse pointer* problem to surface. (Reposting from a different forum.)

The moment I installed the drivers, my mouse pointer size doubled. I uninstalled, tried other drivers, same deal. I tried all of these: Whatever the card came with (it was from 10-07), 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta6. 13.11beta1 refused to install the actual drivers or CCC (only the Catalyst Manager) and therefore did not actually produce the mouse pointer problem.

There is no escape from Google. Apparently this is a known issue that cropped up on AMD cards some time ago. One "solution" depends on the suggestion that the card itself is not getting enough power: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1137-63-large-cursor-pointer. But considering that this card pretty much comes out of the box overclocked as high as it will ever be safe to do so, this is not a good solution. (Note that at least one of the victims of this problem did try exchanging his card for the same thing, to no avail.)

I found a much better solution here: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186134&page=2. In a nutshell, it involves juggling desktop themes in a way that "tricks" the mouse pointer into behaving. Unfortunately, the solution is incomplete; the text cursor mouse pointer (the one that looks like an i-beam) remains giant. I used this solution myself and I still do have a giant text cursor mouse pointer.

This is a problem. Either with the card or the driver. And the really worrying thing is that history serves that AMD will never do a thing to fix it. But I would certainly love to hear about other possible solutions, because as it stands, for the next several years, I get to be reminded about this card's flaws (or AMD's) every time I hover the mouse pointer over text. Please do note in advance that the "usual suspects" - mouse pointer settings, change how the mouse pointer looks, etc. - have been thoroughly eliminated. The problem is not something obvious.

That's my "review" so far. I haven't gotten to anything like, oh, playing a game.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> So my new 290X caused an old *giant mouse pointer* problem to surface. (Reposting from a different forum.)
> 
> The moment I installed the drivers, my mouse pointer size doubled. I uninstalled, tried other drivers, same deal. I tried all of these: Whatever the card came with (it was from 10-07), 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta6. 13.11beta1 refused to install the actual drivers or CCC (only the Catalyst Manager) and therefore did not actually produce the mouse pointer problem.
> 
> There is no escape from Google. Apparently this is a known issue that cropped up on AMD cards some time ago. One "solution" depends on the suggestion that the card itself is not getting enough power: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1137-63-large-cursor-pointer. But considering that this card pretty much comes out of the box overclocked as high as it will ever be safe to do so, this is not a good solution. (Note that at least one of the victims of this problem did try exchanging his card for the same thing, to no avail.)
> 
> I found a much better solution here: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186134&page=2. In a nutshell, it involves juggling desktop themes in a way that "tricks" the mouse pointer into behaving. Unfortunately, the solution is incomplete; the text cursor mouse pointer (the one that looks like an i-beam) remains giant. I used this solution myself and I still do have a giant text cursor mouse pointer.
> 
> This is a problem. Either with the card or the driver. And the really worrying thing is that history serves that AMD will never do a thing to fix it. But I would certainly love to hear about other possible solutions, because as it stands, for the next several years, I get to be reminded about this card's flaws (or AMD's) every time I hover the mouse pointer over text. Please do note in advance that the "usual suspects" - mouse pointer settings, change how the mouse pointer looks, etc. - have been thoroughly eliminated. The problem is not something obvious.
> 
> That's my "review" so far. I haven't gotten to anything like, oh, playing a game.


Thanks for this info, i am hoping my 5850 does not do this when it arrives, i know my 7770's do not do this....

+REP


----------



## Asterra

Here, incidentally, is what the giant version of the text cursor mouse pointer looks like. (Not my image; submitted by a different victim of this issue.)


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> So my new 290X caused an old *giant mouse pointer* problem to surface. (Reposting from a different forum.)
> 
> The moment I installed the drivers, my mouse pointer size doubled. I uninstalled, tried other drivers, same deal. I tried all of these: Whatever the card came with (it was from 10-07), 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta6. 13.11beta1 refused to install the actual drivers or CCC (only the Catalyst Manager) and therefore did not actually produce the mouse pointer problem.
> 
> There is no escape from Google. Apparently this is a known issue that cropped up on AMD cards some time ago. One "solution" depends on the suggestion that the card itself is not getting enough power: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1137-63-large-cursor-pointer. But considering that this card pretty much comes out of the box overclocked as high as it will ever be safe to do so, this is not a good solution. (Note that at least one of the victims of this problem did try exchanging his card for the same thing, to no avail.)
> 
> I found a much better solution here: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186134&page=2. In a nutshell, it involves juggling desktop themes in a way that "tricks" the mouse pointer into behaving. Unfortunately, the solution is incomplete; the text cursor mouse pointer (the one that looks like an i-beam) remains giant. I used this solution myself and I still do have a giant text cursor mouse pointer.
> 
> This is a problem. Either with the card or the driver. And the really worrying thing is that history serves that AMD will never do a thing to fix it. But I would certainly love to hear about other possible solutions, because as it stands, for the next several years, I get to be reminded about this card's flaws (or AMD's) every time I hover the mouse pointer over text. Please do note in advance that the "usual suspects" - mouse pointer settings, change how the mouse pointer looks, etc. - have been thoroughly eliminated. The problem is not something obvious.
> 
> That's my "review" so far. I haven't gotten to anything like, oh, playing a game.


they're releasing a new driver in the next 12 hours. i expect this problem will be solved then


----------



## skupples

Wuhh? @ 700mhz it's still beating titan? I would like to actually see that on paper. 99% of the reviews show them ~1,000-1,100 when beating titan.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Blame AMD's CPU division, their GPU side is doing fine.
> 
> Plus they turned a profit this last quarter.


they are still roof leaker status. In all honesty, I think they should buy them selves out. go the route Dell did, and soon to be so many others.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> So my new 290X caused an old *giant mouse pointer* problem to surface. (Reposting from a different forum.)
> 
> The moment I installed the drivers, my mouse pointer size doubled. I uninstalled, tried other drivers, same deal. I tried all of these: Whatever the card came with (it was from 10-07), 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta6. 13.11beta1 refused to install the actual drivers or CCC (only the Catalyst Manager) and therefore did not actually produce the mouse pointer problem.
> 
> There is no escape from Google. Apparently this is a known issue that cropped up on AMD cards some time ago. One "solution" depends on the suggestion that the card itself is not getting enough power: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1137-63-large-cursor-pointer. But considering that this card pretty much comes out of the box overclocked as high as it will ever be safe to do so, this is not a good solution. (Note that at least one of the victims of this problem did try exchanging his card for the same thing, to no avail.)
> 
> I found a much better solution here: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186134&page=2. In a nutshell, it involves juggling desktop themes in a way that "tricks" the mouse pointer into behaving. Unfortunately, the solution is incomplete; the text cursor mouse pointer (the one that looks like an i-beam) remains giant. I used this solution myself and I still do have a giant text cursor mouse pointer.
> 
> This is a problem. Either with the card or the driver. And the really worrying thing is that history serves that AMD will never do a thing to fix it. But I would certainly love to hear about other possible solutions, because as it stands, for the next several years, I get to be reminded about this card's flaws (or AMD's) every time I hover the mouse pointer over text. Please do note in advance that the "usual suspects" - mouse pointer settings, change how the mouse pointer looks, etc. - have been thoroughly eliminated. The problem is not something obvious.
> 
> That's my "review" so far. I haven't gotten to anything like, oh, playing a game.


source..


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Wuhh? @ 700mhz it's still beating titan? I would like to actually see that on paper. 99% of the reviews show them ~1,000-1,100 when beating titan.
> they are still roof leaker status. In all honesty, I think they should buy them selves out. go the route Dell did, and soon to be so many others.


Anandtech results


You can see the more aggressive throttling on the quieter mode. Look like 55% fan speed maintained the 1000mhz for the duration of the benchmarks in "Uber" mode

Alatar posted a graph from tomshardware showing the Titan's speed (only in the 800's it appeared)

Still not getting a clear picture since everybody is boosting differently!


----------



## Opcode




----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Anandtech results
> 
> 
> You can see the more aggressive throttling on the quieter mode. Look like 55% fan speed maintained the 1000mhz for the duration of the benchmarks in "Uber" mode
> 
> Alatar posted a graph from tomshardware showing the Titan's speed (only in the 800's it appeared)
> 
> Still not getting a clear picture since everybody is boosting differently!


Anandtech didn't run the test long enough, uber drops down lower then that.

And those Titan speed are from a totally different review i believe. Not even relevant as we know that the titan boosts higher then that.


----------



## wermad

290X...not only does it give you bigger heat, bigger tdp, bigger noise, bigger epeen, it also gives you a bigger mouse cursor










@ Asterra. Try driversweeper to get rid of any old drivers and reinstall the recommend pckg for 290X.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opcode*


280x Crossfire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>290x Crossfire.


----------



## criminal

Finally caught up on this thread. So much fighting... lol

The 290X looks great. It may be hot and loud, but it should force Nvidia's hand to drop prices. Win for everyone!


----------



## MerkageTurk

let me say it again the cooler is bad; the price maybe cheaper than the 780 but it lacks in cooling therefore you have to spend more money to get a decent cooler, which will be more expensive then a 780, plus not cool as efficient as the custom 780s or not have the components e.g. mosfets etc to of the 780.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Anandtech didn't run the test long enough, uber drops down lower then that.


that's what I was pointing out early.

Tomshardware benches run 30-90 seconds.

HardOCP benches run 6-8 minutes.

HardOCP's benches (100%) favored the Titan. Tomshardware benches predominately favored the 290X.

Could be margin of error, but I think it has something to do with the HardOCP's benches outlasting that "peak" that Uber mode can run at before dramatically downclocking.

However, HardOCP did note that at 4k, the 290X blows the Titan away. Not sure if that's just a lack of focus by Nvidia or a hardware advantage for the 290X


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> let me say it again the cooler is bad; the price maybe cheaper than the 780 but it lacks in cooling therefore you have to spend more money to get a decent cooler, which will be more expensive then a 780, plus not cool as efficient as the custom 780s or not have the components e.g. mosfets etc to of the 780.


If the 290x beats the 780 all around with the crap stock cooler, a custom cooled 290x will obliterate a 780 for the same $650 spent. Some people care about performance, and some people are ok with less performance if temps and sound are kept in check. Thats why i have a WC loop for the best of both


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> that's what I was pointing out early.
> 
> Tomshardware benches run 30-90 seconds.
> 
> HardOCP benches run 6-8 minutes.
> 
> HardOCP's benches (100%) favored the Titan. Tomshardware benches predominately favored the 290X.
> 
> Could be margin of error, but I think it has something to do with the HardOCP's benches outlasting that "peak" that Uber mode can run at before dramatically downclocking.
> 
> However, HardOCP did note that at 4k, the 290X blows the Titan away. *Not sure if that's just a lack of focus by Nvidia or a hardware advantage for the 290X*


Could be a driver issue that gets resolved with the release of the 780ti. Not sure anything else will help seeing as how the 780ti will probably have the same amount of rops and memory bus width as the 780/Titan.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Finally caught up on this thread. So much fighting... lol
> 
> The 290X looks great. It may be hot and loud, but it should force Nvidia's hand to drop prices. Win for everyone!


Was wondering who was missing..









Leaked 290 benches for 450$ (if true)...it's going to be the go to card. So it's the 290 that fills that gap between Titan and the 780 lol

Guru3d


----------



## 8mm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> that's what I was pointing out early.
> 
> Tomshardware benches run 30-90 seconds.
> 
> HardOCP benches run 6-8 minutes.
> 
> HardOCP's benches (100%) favored the Titan. Tomshardware benches predominately favored the 290X.
> 
> Could be margin of error, but I think it has something to do with the HardOCP's benches outlasting that "peak" that Uber mode can run at before dramatically downclocking.
> 
> However, HardOCP did note that at 4k, the 290X blows the Titan away. Not sure if that's just a lack of focus by Nvidia or a hardware advantage for the 290X


Are you saying that once cooled, the 290x will widen it's lead over the competition? I agree with that. This card is throttling when the fan control is left up to card and would get better scores if manually turned up. Aftermarket cooling solutions should make this card a joy to work with.


----------



## brettjv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> o.0 you asked me if i care about noise when overclocking, the answer is yes i do..
> 
> That cooler you see in the image stays frosty at 75c whilst pushing 885mhz at 1088mv, 1024mv is stock voltage...
> 
> 920mhz stable at 80c max load 1188mv.....
> 
> I could even suicide at 950mhz core, but it maxes above 1.2v which i am getting around 85c.
> 
> So whilst all these crazy clocks are going, the card is not loud, the Noctua's are extremely quiet and push down enough air to dissapate the heat.
> 
> It may not be a pro job, but it is pretty damn tough to beat.


I believe the point he is trying (or rather, WAS, before I deleted his post and dozens of others that failed to follow my instructions) to make is that you're acting like it's the end of the world that the reference cooler on this card is garbage, whilst at the same time posting your elaborate aftermarket cooler/fan setup on some other card you have.

IOW, it appears ... ummmm ... 'hypocritical' ... when some person rails on about the inadequacy of a card's reference cooling solution when, in reality, that person has no qualms about ripping the cooler off and installing some cooling system of their creation on other cards that they own. It makes it look like one is complaining about the cooler just because they have nothing else to really complain about when it comes to this card.

This 'angle' that you (and a few other nV fans on this thread) are taking here is frankly disingenuous and leading to endless strife and bickering, and it's really starting to annoy me cleaning up the messes that result from it.

Everyone around here knows I generally lean towards nV cards (though I'm far from a fanboy) and even I'll admit that it's freaking PAINFULLY obvious that this is a great card at a great friggin' price. And NOBODY HERE gives a flying you-know-what about the fact that the stock cooler is crap because we ALL know how to deal with a problem of this nature, ESPECIALLY YOU, given the picture you posted.

So how about you, *and all the rest of the green-side FANS* (to be clear AMD, you are not the only one causing issues on this thread, I just randomly chose one of many possible posts from many possible people to respond to) give it a friggin' rest and let AMD have their little moment here?

This card coming out in the end works to the benefit of us all ... except perhaps for some owners of Titans and 780s who look at it's price and performance and choose to feel sad over it (even though they really shouldn't). And even they will probably benefit down the line, even if they feel sad now









Bottom-line, my patience for this 'argument' about the temps/crappy reference cooler (along with all the personal attacks and general disrespect) on this thread is wearing thin, so unless people wish to not have this thread to discuss this card on anymore, I strongly suggest people take a more civil and less 'personal' approach to this discussion, and quit whinging over the weak cooler. NOBODY CARES ... not even the person doing the complaining (if they're remotely honest w/themselves







)


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> source..


Of? I gave links and a screenshot. If you mean "Prove that you're suffering from this issue" then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> I believe the point he is trying (or rather, WAS, before I deleted his post and dozens of others that failed to follow my instructions) to make is that you're acting like it's the end of the world that the reference cooler on this card is garbage, whilst at the same time posting your elaborate aftermarket cooler/fan setup on some other card you have.
> 
> IOW, it appears ... ummmm ... 'hypocritical' ... when some person rails on about the inadequacy of a card's reference cooling solution when, in reality, that person has no qualms about ripping the cooler off and installing some cooling system of their creation on other cards that they own. It makes it look like one is complaining about the cooler just because they have nothing else to really complain about when it comes to this card.
> 
> This 'angle' that you (and a few other nV fans on this thread) are taking here is frankly disingenuous and leading to endless strife and bickering, and it's really starting to annoy me cleaning up the messes that result from it.
> 
> Everyone around here knows I generally lean towards nV cards (though I'm far from a fanboy) and even I'll admit that it's freaking PAINFULLY obvious that this is a great card at a great friggin' price. And NOBODY HERE gives a flying you-know-what about the fact that the stock cooler is crap because we ALL know how to deal with a problem of this nature, ESPECIALLY YOU, given the picture you posted.
> 
> So how about you, *and all the rest of the green-side FANS* (to be clear AMD, you are not the only one causing issues on this thread, I just randomly chose one of many possible posts from many possible people to respond to) give it a friggin' rest and let AMD have their little moment here?
> 
> This card coming out in the end works to the benefit of us all ... except perhaps for some owners of Titans and 780s who look at it's price and performance and choose to feel sad over it (even though they really shouldn't). And even they will probably benefit down the line, even if they feel sad now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom-line, my patience for this 'argument' about the temps/crappy reference cooler (along with all the personal attacks and general disrespect) on this thread is wearing thin, so unless people wish to not have this thread to discuss this card on anymore, I strongly suggest people take a more civil and less 'personal' approach to this discussion, and quit whinging over the weak cooler. NOBODY CARES ... not even the person doing the complaining (if they're remotely honest w/themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I was only giving the preachers a hard time, but i will lay off, i am cool


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> @ Asterra. Try driversweeper to get rid of any old drivers and reinstall the recommend pckg for 290X.


Got ya covered. Other folks did this also (see the threads). It's not the problem. Incidentally, the driver acquired from Sapphire's website failed to fully install.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8mm*
> 
> Are you saying that once cooled, the 290x will widen it's lead over the competition? I agree with that. This card is throttling when the fan control is left up to card and would get better scores if manually turned up. Aftermarket cooling solutions should make this card a joy to work with.


Oh it most definitely will.

For the water cooling guys here, none of this temp/noise stuff matters.

Hard to tell if the temps are just high because of a crappy cooler or if it's just a REALLY hot card. Even if it's meant to hang at 95c that doesn't explain why its one of the hottest idling GPUs (in years) or why the fan must go berserk to maintain the target. Not that I don't have faith in the 3rd party vendors (sapphire rep seems really enthusiastic about what's coming up, though that's his job) I just wonder if they'll be able to slap on their usual coolers from the 7970's or if they'll have to beef them up some.

Still waiting to see what the general consensus is on OC'ability. Couple people here or there getting high clocks is whatever, always a couple golden eggs, but if everybody under water is easily pushing 1200+ mhz plus, that'd be sick.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> Bottom-line, my patience for this 'argument' about the temps/crappy reference cooler (along with all the personal attacks and general disrespect) on this thread is wearing thin, so unless people wish to not have this thread to discuss this card on anymore, I strongly suggest people take a more civil and less 'personal' approach to this discussion, and quit whinging over the weak cooler. NOBODY CARES ... not even the person doing the complaining (if they're remotely honest w/themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I wish i could rep a mod. Cause right now you just summed up this thread in a nutshell.

thank you for this post. i thought i was going crazy when i was posting almost the same thing and the *nerd rage* continued without a pause.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Oh it most definitely will.
> 
> For the water cooling guys here, none of this temp/noise stuff matters.
> 
> Hard to tell if the temps are just high because of a crappy cooler or if it's just a REALLY hot card. Even if it's meant to hang at 95c that doesn't explain why its one of the hottest idling GPUs (in years) or why the fan must go berserk to maintain the target. Not that I don't have faith in the 3rd party vendors (sapphire rep seems really enthusiastic about what's coming up, though that's his job) I just wonder if they'll be able to slap on their usual coolers from the 7970's or if they'll have to beef them up some.
> 
> Still waiting to see what the general consensus is on OC'ability. Couple people here or there getting high clocks is whatever, always a couple golden eggs, but if everybody under water is easily pushing 1200+ mhz plus, that'd be sick.


its definitely the cooler. people are already putting aftermarket solutions on this card and seeing a 30C drop in temps across the board with a SLOW fan profile (to say nothing for the gains from an aggressive one). One guy was sowing his benching results with 1.4V and a 1200mhz core clock, he was hitting 63C on furmark with an aftermarket air cooler on low fan speed.

the aftermarket cooler he was using (forgot the name) was primarily a GTX 680 cooler, he said it fit without any moding. in the same forum thread someone else said that accelero claims their accelero extreme III will fit without any alterations too.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Was wondering who was missing..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaked 290 benches for 450$ (if true)...it's going to be the go to card. So it's the 290 that fills that gap between Titan and the 780 lol
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Guru3d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


I wouldn't mind having a 290 to play with.


----------



## sugarhell

8 pack review

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551642


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I wouldn't mind having a 290 to play with.


If anything, the 290 will more than likley be the real Nvidia killer if the leaked benchies we have seen hold true, not everything has to be performance, but what you get for the money, not saying the 290x is bad for the money.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I wouldn't mind having a 290 to play with.


if it's $450 ($460-$480 for good AIB card) then that'll be a STEAL.

The GTX 770 might as well be $200


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> If anything, the 290 will more than likley be the real Nvidia killer if the leaked benchies we have seen hold true, not everything has to be performance, but what you get for the money, not saying the 290x is bad for the money.


well none of these GPU's are going to be the "death" of any company. Having the fastest GPU's is good publicity and what not, but the (few?) thousand people that purchase $400+ GPU's PALE in comparison to the millions of budget GPU's sold through OEM's and retailers.

Very hard to convince your average consumer to buy a single PC component that costs more than the consoles


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> well none of these GPU's are going to be the "death" of any company. Having the fastest GPU's is good publicity and what not, but the (few?) thousand people that purchase $400+ GPU's PALE in comparison to the millions of budget GPU's sold through OEM's and retailers.
> 
> Very hard to convince your average consumer to buy a single PC component that costs more than the consoles


True, but to get 60FPS in games is all most people are after like me....

I do not mind sacrificingIQ for a more enjoyable/smooth experience.
The leaked 290 benchies show it just behind 290x, and i could only assume the card will be around the 300 pound mark, which is GTX 770 money whilst offering 780/Titan performance.


----------



## skupples

ALLOT of xbox1 games will be pushing 60 fps 1080P.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> if it's $450 ($460-$480 for good AIB card) then that'll be a STEAL.
> 
> The GTX 770 might as well be $200


What Nvidia's pricing should be once the 290 launches:

GTX760 - $189
GTX770 - $279
GTX780 - $449-$529 (Custom versions included)
GTX780ti - $579-$629 (Custom versions included)
Titan - $699 or EOL


----------



## brettjv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> I was only giving the preachers a hard time, but i will lay off, i am cool


Thank you sir. And thanks to everyone else who tones it down a notch here and sticks to the topic.

Ya know, I seem to remember about 1.5 YEARS of posts CONSTANT posts on the nV boards since Kepler came out with people going "Dang it nV why did you make the volts so low how do I disable voltage cap who has a modded bios?!?"

And then AMD comes out with a new card with the voltage practically pouring out of the thing, the card absolutely flying out of the box and what are nV fans doing on this thread? "ZOMG why is there so much noise and heat, and why is the voltage so high?!? This AMD card sucks, it should be cooler, and quieter!!?!'

So that sums it up ... I hope people understand why I have no patience for this particular complaint, esp. coming from people who obviously favor nVidia cards, given the past 1.5 years discussion?!?

Maybe on some regular consumer site, I would 'get' this complaint. But this is OC-Friggin-N baby. We know how to rip off a reference cooler and put on something better ... do WE NOT?!?

BTW, I'll be here ALL DAY ... removing trollish/silly/personal posts, so if you don't keep it real, on-topic, factual, non-personal ... expect your post to disappear.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> Thank you sir. And thanks to everyone else who tones it down a notch here and sticks to the topic.
> 
> Ya know, I seem to remember about 1.5 YEARS of posts CONSTANT posts on the nV boards since Kepler came out with people going "Dang it nV why did you make the volts so low how do I disable voltage cap who has a modded bios?!?"
> 
> And then AMD comes out with a new card with the voltage practically pouring out of the thing, the card absolutely flying out of the box and what are nV fans doing on this thread? "ZOMG why is there so much noise and heat, and why is the voltage so high?!? This AMD card sucks, it should be cooler, and quieter!!?!'
> 
> So that sums it up ... I hope people understand why I have no patience for this particular complaint, esp. coming from people who obviously favor nVidia cards, given the past 1.5 years discussion?!?
> 
> Maybe on some regular consumer site, I would 'get' this complaint. But this is OC-Friggin-N baby. We know how to rip off a reference cooler and put on something better ... do WE NOT?!?


Back track to Fermi days, the threads were completely 180. My 470 was heads and tails above 5850 I had, but there was no denying it was hot and loud!


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Back track to Fermi days, the threads were completely 180. My 470 was heads and tails above 5850 I had, but there was no denying it was hot and loud!


When an architecture goes pedal to the metal, there is no room for whining about heat and power consumption.......... maybe noise.... but yeah.........


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I wouldn't mind having a 290 to play with.


Thinking two 290 lightenings are in my future







I'm trying to press myself to go with the 290x but if it feels the gap between Titan and the 780 i'm not going to be able to turn it down. It would have to be below the 780 for me not to get one.

Waiting on custom cooling though because i'll be running it on air before i start my new rig and loop.


----------



## rx7racer

Amen to that brett.

Also glad I can finally feel good about upgrading my gpu's, until this point all I could do it think, "no, I'm not letting you rip me off NV on these joke of cards that 4 years ago would be half this price".

AMD to the answer again, just like years ago, beating with price and performance. The price is what makes it sweet, which it seems most of the NV guys are like completely over looking.;


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> And then AMD comes out with a new card with the voltage practically pouring out of the thing, the card absolutely flying out of the box and what are nV fans doing on this thread? "ZOMG why is there so much noise and heat, and why is the voltage so high?!? This AMD card sucks, it should be cooler, and quieter!!?!'


the card is noisy and hot, no denying that, but any serious overclocker will be either A. cranking the fan up on the reference cooler to bench it, B. buying non reference cards later on, C. waterblock it or Ln2 pots

people crying about the voltages should look at the 780 and titan before the volt hacks and look how much we cried when we could only do 1.212 without hardmods, i for one welcome voltage control on these cards with arms open very very wide. People bashing it for having high volts are most likely the users that get complained about because all their posts are bashing amd and defending their nvidia card to the death(granted both sides have people like this)

290x should arrive at my place soon, now to get a EK block and maybe sell one of my titans if i truly enjoy this 290x.


----------



## 66racer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> What Nvidia's pricing should be once the 290 launches:
> 
> GTX760 - $189
> GTX770 - $279
> GTX780 - $449-$529 (Custom versions included)
> GTX780ti - $579-$629 (Custom versions included)
> Titan - $699 or EOL


I would LOVE those prices. I think honestly if the 290 price and performance is what is rumored I think that would be correct pricing but not sure if nvidia is going to gp that low at all. I was surprised they put the 770 at $400 to be honest lol

Who cares about the heat though, thats what water cooling and partner custom coolers are for.

Having the itch to change something I might look into a 290 (even a 280x but too much of a sidegrade) or maybe a 780 if prices actually go down...maybe sli but i dont game much, I just like to oc and bench a bit, then get bored and want new hardware lol


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rx7racer*
> 
> Amen to that brett.
> 
> Also glad I can finally feel good about upgrading my gpu's, until this point all I could do it think, "no, I'm not letting you rip me off NV on these joke of cards that 4 years ago would be half this price".
> 
> AMD to the answer again, just like years ago, beating with price and performance. The price is what makes it sweet, which it seems most of the NV guys are like completely over looking.;


4870 and 4890 were absolute killers, the GTX 295 kind of stole the dual GPU thunder though.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> 4870 and 4890 were absolute killers, the GTX 295 kind of stole the dual GPU thunder though.


Got a 5 year old 4890 still going today thing is a beast.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> its definitely the cooler. people are already putting aftermarket solutions on this card and seeing a 30C drop in temps across the board with a SLOW fan profile (to say nothing for the gains from an aggressive one). *One guy was sowing his benching results with 1.4V and a 1200mhz core clock, he was hitting 63C on furmark with an aftermarket air cooler on low fan speed.*
> 
> the aftermarket cooler he was using (forgot the name) was primarily a GTX 680 cooler, he said it fit without any moding. in the same forum thread someone else said that accelero claims their accelero extreme III will fit without any alterations too.


yikes that's crazy!

sorry to ask you, but do you think you can dig that up wherever you heard that?


----------



## coachmark2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> yikes that's crazy!
> 
> sorry to ask you, but do you think you can dig that up wherever you heard that?


Furmark has intense driver-level throttling to strip volts from cards when its being run due to its propensity for killing GPUs. My guess is that this is what occurred to drop the temperatures.


----------



## amd655

No way i will put Furmark near any card i own, the temp rise is enough to notice it is no good for a GPU.


----------



## dual1ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Got a 5 year old 4890 still going today thing is a beast.


I'm stilling running a 4870x2 in my main gaming rig along with a 920









I believe i can maybe go buy a 290x and finally upgrade


----------



## psyside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> We run ~10-15$ a day down here, & that's less than the old house with dual-AC. 5,000$ a year on power is no fun. *These cost more to run than titans, they better be faster.*


Having 2x 290X instead of 2x Titans, will cost you max 5$ per month.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rx7racer*
> 
> Amen to that brett.
> 
> Also glad I can finally feel good about upgrading my gpu's, until this point all I could do it think, "no, I'm not letting you rip me off NV on these joke of cards that 4 years ago would be half this price".
> 
> AMD to the answer again, just like years ago, beating with price and performance. The price is what makes it sweet, which it seems most of the NV guys are like completely over looking.;


I was in that same boat. I was itching for an upgrade, but knew waiting it out would pay off. I think AMD releasing the 290x at the same price as the 7970 from 2 years earlier was a nice little poke at Nvidia


----------



## Colossus1090

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dual1ty*
> 
> I'm stilling running a 4870x2 in my main gaming rig along with a 920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe i can maybe go buy a 290x and finally upgrade


You made your account in 2011 and this is your first comment lol


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> Got ya covered. Other folks did this also (see the threads). It's not the problem. Incidentally, the driver acquired from Sapphire's website failed to fully install.


I always download drivers from Amd's and Nvidia's site. I rarely use the included discs unless i have no internet access.

Did you contact Sapphire and Amd support?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I don't really give a crap about the heat, I just want to get to the bottom of what's the performance king? Too many people are getting sucked in by the reviews and not taking into consideration the vast difference there is between stock bios's and stock voltage/power/temp limits compared to modded bios's with unlocked voltages and power/temp limits. All I'm seeing is "Oooooooh! HardOCP's 290X is 23% faster than Titan!!!" I can guarantee you that that Titan was on a stock bios and therefore was throttling like crazy during that test so I don't really care about the result.

At the end of the day I want to see what these 290X's can do under water with no thermal or power limitations and then compare that to Titan under the same circumstances. Let the best card(s) win and we can crown the true performance king once and for all (until Maxwell of course)...


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> I was in that same boat. I was itching for an upgrade, but knew waiting it out would pay off. I think AMD releasing the 290x at the same price as the 7970 from 2 years earlier was a nice little poke at Nvidia


Yup in that boat now, in the process of upgrading some main components. And was undecided about what i wanted to buy for video cards. Now with this release more choices are being opened up. Great holiday season coming up


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't really give a crap about the heat, I just want to get to the bottom of what's the performance king? Too many people are getting sucked in by the reviews and not taking into consideration the vast difference there is between stock bios's and stock voltage/power/temp limits compared to modded bios's with unlocked voltages and power/temp limits. All I'm seeing is "Oooooooh! HardOCP's 290X is 23% faster than Titan!!!" I can guarantee you that that Titan was on a stock bios and therefore was throttling like crazy during that test so I don't really care about the result.
> 
> At the end of the day I want to see what these 290X's can do under water with no thermal or power limitations and then compare that to Titan under the same circumstances. Let the best card(s) win and we can crown the true performance king once and for all (until Maxwell of course)...


Agreed. Guru3d's review Titan and the 290x were trading blows. From Gibbo and the EK post seems that under water they should OC pretty adequately. The main thing for most including me is the price difference. As far as performance goes though it seems to match/exceed Titan.


----------



## dual1ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Colossus1090*
> 
> You made your account in 2011 and this is your first comment lol


Well... I really only read on this forum








But one time gotta be the first


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dual1ty*
> 
> Well... I really only read on this forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But one time gotta be the first


Nothing wrong with only reading, hi and welcome


----------



## pwnzilla61

I think I am still going to want next gen cards, maybe a 390x or 880.


----------



## brettjv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> the card is noisy and hot, no denying that, but any serious overclocker will be either A. cranking the fan up on the reference cooler to bench it, B. buying non reference cards later on, C. waterblock it or Ln2 pots
> 
> people crying about the voltages should look at the 780 and titan before the volt hacks and look how much we cried when we could only do 1.212 without hardmods, i for one welcome voltage control on these cards with arms open very very wide. People bashing it for having high volts are most likely the users that get complained about because all their posts are bashing amd and defending their nvidia card to the death(granted both sides have people like this)
> 
> 290x should arrive at my place soon, now to get a EK block and maybe sell one of my titans if i truly enjoy this 290x.


Exactly. or D) slapping an aftermarket cooler on it.

I do have to say though looking at some of the earlier graphs ... the fact that the card seems to be throttling with the reference cooler at auto-fan-speeds is ... disappointing to see. It's a legitimate 'gripe' in a general sense ... certainly not a big enough deal to say this isn't the 'card to get right now' for people like ourselves who know our way 'round a heat issue, but if one want to nitpick ... that's a legit 'black mark', bit of a mess-up on AMD's part to not properly adjust fan speed to keep the card from throttling in a regular gaming situation.

To SOME, that might be sort-of a big deal, but for us OCN'ers? Heck I'd think most of us are kinda happy to have an excuse to wait for the DC/TF/Lightning/Windforce models, or to buy an aftermarket cooler to slap on there


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I don't really give a crap about the heat, I just want to get to the bottom of what's the performance king? Too many people are getting sucked in by the reviews and not taking into consideration the vast difference there is between stock bios's and stock voltage/power/temp limits compared to modded bios's with unlocked voltages and power/temp limits. All I'm seeing is "Oooooooh! HardOCP's 290X is 23% faster than Titan!!!" I can guarantee you that that Titan was on a stock bios and therefore was throttling like crazy during that test so I don't really care about the result.
> 
> At the end of the day I want to see what these 290X's can do under water with no thermal or power limitations and then compare that to Titan under the same circumstances. Let the best card(s) win and we can crown the true performance king once and for all (until Maxwell of course)...


Aactualy, just for clarity, titan won every benchmark at hardocp until they ran the 4k tests...that's where that 20%+ difference came from. Either hardware issue ofr lack of focus on nvidias part. Unless 512 bus width makes that big of a difference!

then some of these wild 25% faster claims are from company of heroes, hitman, and dirt 3....surprise surpise.

Alater created a thread under GPU general discussion for GK110 vs R290X

Should be fun!


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Got a 5 year old 4890 still going today thing is a beast.


just saw one today, looked brand new (the dude kept it spotless) he was asking $100 for it.

I laughed. You know, 2 years ago i would have been on that like white on rice for $100, now it's silly overpriced at this point.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> just saw one today, looked brand new (the dude kept it spotless) he was asking $100 for it.
> 
> I laughed. You know, 2 years ago i would have been on that like white on rice for $100, now it's silly overpriced at this point.


Oh yeah for $100 I'd go for a GTX 570 at the lowest.


----------



## brettjv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Alater created a thread under GPU general discussion for GK110 vs R290X
> 
> Should be fun!


Oh, did he really?

I suppose it's decent idea, however ... he SO just elected himself babysitter









Also re: the bandwidth ... it very well could be exactly that. I did some tests about a year ago and was astonished to find how significantly bandwidth affects perf as you go up in resolution. At least it does on a GTX670, going from 1920x1200 up to 2560x1600.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Oh yeah for $100 I'd go for a GTX 570 at the lowest.


Picked up 5850 for 50 bangers off flea bay last night


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> Exactly. or D) slapping an aftermarket cooler on it.
> 
> I do have to say though looking at some of the earlier graphs ... the fact that the card seems to be throttling with the reference cooler at auto-fan-speeds is ... disappointing to see. It's a legitimate 'gripe' in a general sense ... certainly not a big enough deal to say this isn't the 'card to get right now' for people like ourselves who know our way 'round a heat issue, but if one want to nitpick ... that's a legit 'black mark', bit of a mess-up on AMD's part to not properly adjust fan speed to keep the card from throttling in a regular gaming situation.
> 
> To SOME, that might be sort-of a big deal, but for us OCN'ers? Heck I'd think most of us are kinda happy to have an excuse to wait for the DC/TF/Lightning/Windforce models, or to buy an aftermarket cooler to slap on there


yep. as i said earlier, there is word floating around (which i'm waiting on confirmation on) that the Arctic Accelero Extreme III will fit on and work with a 290x right now, with no modification from Arctic Cooling. If that's the case i'll be getting my 290x with an extreme iii for xmas, and go to town with it.


----------



## piledragon

Quote:


> Aactualy, just for clarity, titan won every benchmark at hardocp until they ran the 4k tests...that's where that 20%+ difference came from. Either hardware issue ofr lack of focus on nvidias part. Unless 512 bus width makes that big of a difference!
> 
> then some of these wild 25% faster claims are from company of heroes, hitman, and dirt 3....surprise surpise.
> 
> Alater created a thread under GPU general discussion for GK110 vs R290X
> 
> Should be fun!


for a grand i would think so , but going back to what AMD stated, this card was to go up against the 780, and it accomplished that,

sure will be nice once mantle is put into motion, so this is kinda like putting a "gimped" $549.00 290x up against a $1,000 titan , does this fact sink in at all to anyone, anyone, anyone.......

crickets again


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> One guy was sowing his benching results with 1.4V and a 1200mhz core clock, he was hitting 63C on furmark with an aftermarket air cooler on low fan speed.


Is it just me, or does 1200 seem like kind of a low overclock for 1.4V? Isn't stock voltage 1.25V? That's a big voltage increase for speeds close to what a lot of reviews were getting (1125-1150) without voltage mods (unless CCC is pumping up the volts itself).


----------



## szeged

on kingpin forums theres a volt mod for 2v on the 290x, so maybe 1.4v will be considered low for the 290x?


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> Oh, did he really?
> 
> I suppose it's decent idea, however ... he SO just elected himself babysitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also re: the bandwidth ... it very well could be exactly that. I did some tests about a year ago and was astonished to find how significantly bandwidth affects perf as you go up in resolution. At least it does on a GTX670, going from 1920x1200 up to 2560x1600.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1436635/ocn-gk110-vs-hawaii-bench-off-thread/0_100

I think it'll be nice. Like when "majin" or whatever that username was when he did some nice comparison between all of his GPU's.

Good for the community.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Picked up 5850 for 50 bangers off flea bay last night


hmm 5850 was a great card, just like my 4850 (was)


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> on kingpin forums theres a volt mod for 2v on the 290x, so maybe 1.4v will be considered low for the 290x?


I hope for beastly ocing once the core is cold 1300MHz solid I want to believe.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I hope for beastly ocing once the core is cold 1300MHz solid I want to believe.


i hope 1300mhz is an easy one to get, i wanna push this thing as hard as i did my titans


----------



## Domino

If mantel support goes as planned, we might have another 8800 GT on our hands.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Is it just me, or does 1200 seem like kind of a low overclock for 1.4V? Isn't stock voltage 1.25V? That's a big voltage increase for speeds close to what a lot of reviews were getting (1125-1150) without voltage mods (unless CCC is pumping up the volts itself).


yeah... some of the comments in the thread were along those lines. according to the dude who did this, he said he was not looking to get the best overclock out of it, only looking to find a quick and dirty overclock and balance it out with his fans for a "silent" operation card.

i'll have to hunt the thread down... but he definitely wasn't an extreme overclocker and a lot of the folks in the thread were walking him through how to get more out of the card when i left the page. So i'm sure there is a lot more to be had. Last i saw he was stuck at 1.4V because his psu wasn't giving him enough power to push it higher then that. (at least it seemed everyone was convinced it was his psu, personally i'm not sure that's the case)


----------



## Mad Pistol

I can't wait to see what people can do with their 290X. I think the real show will be the 290, though, especially if it lands on the $450 predicted price.

R9 280X - $300
R9 290 - $450
R9 290x - $550

Come on AMD, make it happen!!!









As for the 780, it needs at least a $50 price drop to remain at parity with the 290X.


----------



## Asterra

New 290X owner here.

Am I correct in having evidently discovered that no AMD card - including the 290X - lets one set up transparency multisampling? That my $580 card will forever give me the image on the left, while Nvidia cards have enjoyed the image improvement on the right for at least three years?



*Please* tell me RadeonPro has simply hidden this function very, very well.


----------



## Mad Pistol

AMD has a setting called "Adaptive Multisampling" in CCC which gives a similar image to the one on the right.

They also have Supersampling which is more taxing but definitely produces the image on the right.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> AMD has a setting called "Adaptive Multisampling" in CCC which gives a similar image to the one on the right.
> 
> They also have Supersampling which is more taxing but definitely produces the image on the right.


Don't forget the EQ settings with Super sampling. 2EQ = 4xMSAA 4EQ = 8MSAA ... and so on. Or is it SSAA instead of MSAA


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> Exactly. or D) slapping an aftermarket cooler on it.
> 
> I do have to say though looking at some of the earlier graphs ... the fact that the card seems to be throttling with the reference cooler at auto-fan-speeds is ... disappointing to see. It's a legitimate 'gripe' in a general sense ... certainly not a big enough deal to say this isn't the 'card to get right now' for people like ourselves who know our way 'round a heat issue, but if one want to nitpick ... that's a legit 'black mark', bit of a mess-up on AMD's part to not properly adjust fan speed to keep the card from throttling in a regular gaming situation.
> 
> To SOME, that might be sort-of a big deal, but for us OCN'ers? Heck I'd think most of us are kinda happy to have an excuse to wait for the DC/TF/Lightning/Windforce models, or to buy an aftermarket cooler to slap on there


Yes, but even the "throttled" results are good. Unless some investigation has shown people won't get the reviewed "quiet" mode performance?


----------



## MerkageTurk

It's a throttling card what's so good about it lol
That means there is an issue somewhat or a fundamental problem


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Having 2x 290X instead of 2x Titans, will cost you max 5$ per month.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> Ok...here you go. 30w difference in cards. So if you used 30+ watts more per hour at 4 hours per day for 365 days a year that would be
> 
> 30w x .001 = .03kw/h at .08/kwh that is .0024 x 4 = .0096 x 365 = 3.504/ year difference. Got it?
> 
> Edit...that is actually calculated at 4/per day and this is at max stock load right? So gaming would be less. And idle would be nothing.


The irony of it is if you live in *Hawaii* , electricity is the most expensive at about 37 cents per kwh not 8 cents. (~$100/year if you fold 24/7)

My so called article http://www.overclock.net/a/which-is-the-cheapest-state-for-electricity


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> yep. as i said earlier, there is word floating around (which i'm waiting on confirmation on) that the Arctic Accelero Extreme III will fit on and work with a 290x right now, with no modification from Arctic Cooling. If that's the case i'll be getting my 290x with an extreme iii for xmas, and go to town with it.


Translate is a bit unclear but it seems that Computerbase got confirmation from Arctic that it's compatible. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerbase.de%2Fnews%2F2013-10%2Farctic-und-prolimatech-unterstuetzen-radeon-r9-290x%2F


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> AMD has a setting called "Adaptive Multisampling" in CCC which gives a similar image to the one on the right.
> 
> They also have Supersampling which is more taxing but definitely produces the image on the right.


I just enabled the 8xAA with supersampling ("Adaptive (Quality)"). It takes care of the edges, which is what regular AA does. "Transparency multisampling" tackles textures that have transparency built-in. On the flagship AMD card, what it looks like is that there is _nothing_ that can be tweaked to make such textures look better. They don't even get an AA filter, so they stand out as objects with jaggies no matter how nice and smooth the edges of other things are.

And I ordered from Newegg, too, so I am stuck with this. Wonderful.


----------



## sugarhell




----------



## Asterra

Here is what I'm talking about. This is with every possible quality setting at max. Note the nice, smooth edges of the cart on the right, and the circa 2001 jaggies of the bush on the left.



It would almost be less disconcerting just to turn AA completely off.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> I just enabled the 8xAA with supersampling ("Adaptive (Quality)"). It takes care of the edges, which is what regular AA does. "Transparency multisampling" tackles textures that have transparency built-in. On the flagship AMD card, what it looks like is that there is _nothing_ that can be tweaked to make such textures look better. They don't even get an AA filter, so they stand out as objects with jaggies no matter how nice and smooth the edges of other things are.
> 
> And I ordered from Newegg, too, so I am stuck with this. Wonderful.


SELECT SUPERSAMPLING


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> SELECT SUPERSAMPLING


It's on, chief. RadeonPro calls it "Adaptive (Quality)". Read this: This setting has no effect on textures with transparency (or, as far as I understand things, textures at all).


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> It's on, chief. RadeonPro calls it "Adaptive (Quality)". Read this: This setting has no effect on textures with transparency (or, as far as I understand things, textures at all).


http://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/amd-hd-7000-anti-aliasing-summary-and-probably-hd-6000-as-well/


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Durquavian

I have Radeonpro and you can select multi adaptive and SUPER SAMPLING. Then at top with anti-aliasing you will see eq setting with regular. You now have super sampling enabled


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> I have Radeonpro and you can select multi adaptive and SUPER SAMPLING. Then at top with anti-aliasing you will see eq setting with regular. You now have super sampling enabled


I'll bite. Can you be more specific with what you're saying? For me, under _Anti-Aliasing Mode,_ I have _Multi-sample, Adaptive (Performance), Adaptive (Quality)_ - nothing which specifically says "Supersampling", although according to what I have read, "Adaptive (Quality)" is supposed to be the same thing. At the top, under _Anti-Aliasing_, I can choose to _Override application settings_ (which I do), and then pick from between 2x and 8x. I see no EQ. However, if under "_Anti-Aliasing Filter_" further below I choose one of the _CFAA_ modes, then the Anti-Aliasing menu above begins to indicate that I have selected a higher-quality AA (16x when I pick 8x, for example) and this is probably the 8xEQ mode.

Regardless, none of this has any effect on the bush/grass/etc. textures because they are not edges but _textures_ that happen to have transparency as part of their makeup.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Well it must be a bug. This kind of stuff happens all the time in Nvidia land too - one driver it's working, the next it's not. At least AMD has an excuse in this case, that the hardware is brand new.


Actually I just looked into it for my old 6990 and it doesn't have transparency multisampling either. According to Google, Nvidia cards have had this since at least 2006.

I'll seriously give ten bucks to anyone who can get transparency multisampling working on a recent AMD card, post a screenshot, and tell me how they did it so I can do the same. The game in question, incidentally, is Fallout New Vegas (Fallout 3 should have the same kind of issue).


----------



## sugarhell

Just change anti-aliasing method.


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> I'll bite. Can you be more specific with what you're saying? For me, under _Anti-Aliasing Mode,_ I have _Multi-sample, Adaptive (Performance), Adaptive (Quality)_ - nothing which specifically says "Supersampling", although according to what I have read, "Adaptive (Quality)" is supposed to be the same thing. At the top, under _Anti-Aliasing_, I can choose to _Override application settings_ (which I do), and then pick from between 2x and 8x. I see no EQ. However, if under "_Anti-Aliasing Filter_" further below I choose one of the _CFAA_ modes, then the Anti-Aliasing menu above begins to indicate that I have selected a higher-quality AA (16x when I pick 8x, for example) and this is probably the 8xEQ mode.
> 
> Regardless, none of this has any effect on the bush/grass/etc. textures because they are not edges but _textures_ that happen to have transparency as part of their makeup.


Under Anti-Aliasing you don't have _Anti-Aliasing Method_? I have it and Supersampling shows up

Edit:Sugar beat me to it


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## infranoia

So it's been a few hours now. I've thrown some games and benches at it. This card is NOT noisy. I have the switch at 55% fan speed and at load it's still quieter than my 5850 Crossfire was. With the switch at 'Uber' in Valley Bench and FS Extreme, GPU never dropped below 1GHz, and the fan got up to a maximum of 49%. It was quiet as can be inside my Antec P280.

All this wharrgarbl about this being a loud card is generated by open bench reviewers and ridiculous trolls who don't actually have one.

Noisy? Yes, it's noisy on an open bench, with a mike next to it. In a case, when you're gaming? No, it's not noisy at all at 50% fan. You can pretty much ignore any nonsense to the contrary.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## RX7-2nr

My CPU burns probably 450 watts at full load and runs at 75c. I do not care because electricity is cheap and I am privy to luxuries like _air conditioning._ 290x is a win, anyone that says otherwise is grasping at brand loyalty straws.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> With the switch at 'Uber' in Valley Bench and FS Extreme, *GPU never dropped below 1GHz*, and the fan got up to a maximum of 49%.


Are you sure about that? Can you actually wait for like 10 minutes and see if it's dropped?


----------



## Thunderclap

In case you guys still haven't seen it:






"Presenting you the almighty AMD R9 290X. It blows Titans away... figuratively and literally!"


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Just change anti-aliasing method.


Very well. Ignoring RadeonPro for the moment, I went ahead and used CCC to force Supersampling, along with 8xEQ. The result? Very smooth edges on stuff, very jagged bushes with no smoothing done whatsoever.


----------



## sugarhell

Try to use edge detect and use adaptive multisample

Supersampling just scale the res up


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> Very well. Ignoring RadeonPro for the moment, I went ahead and used CCC to force Supersampling, along with 8xEQ. The result? Very smooth edges on stuff, very jagged bushes with no smoothing done whatsoever.


What game are you using to test this?


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noobism*
> 
> Under Anti-Aliasing you don't have _Anti-Aliasing Method_? I have it and Supersampling shows up


_"Anti-Aliasing Method"_ is not in my RadeonPro (nor does that exact phrase pop up in association with RadeonPro with Google). If you meant _"Anti-Aliasing Mode"_, yes I have that, and the three options listed below it are: _Multi-sample, Adaptive (Performance), Adaptive (Quality)._ Regardless of whether or not "Adaptive (Quality)" = "Supersampling", choosing Supersampling from within CCC gives identical results.

Here is an article I found on transparent multisampling.. from 2006. http://techreport.com/review/11211/nvidia-geforce-8800-graphics-processor/9 ATI evidently used to support the function, and, as the article indicates, textures with transparency are made to look better by individually 4x supersampling them. Although the images are low-res, the extra smoothness granted by the process is obvious. Now take a look at the top images. That is exactly what I get from my 290X: Nothing. It's painful to ponder that I sent a 780 back just days before buying the 290X.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> What game are you using to test this?


Fallout New Vegas.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Try to use edge detect and use adaptive multisample
> 
> Sumpersampling is just scale the res up


Just tried it. Same results. Although I'd say supersampling looks a bit better with edges. No change whatsoever on bushes.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> So it's been a few hours now. I've thrown some games and benches at it. This card is NOT noisy. I have the switch at 55% fan speed and at load it's still quieter than my 5850 Crossfire was. With the switch at 'Uber' in Valley Bench and FS Extreme, GPU never dropped below 1GHz, and the fan got up to a maximum of 49%. It was quiet as can be inside my Antec P280.
> 
> All this wharrgarbl about this being a loud card is generated by open bench reviewers and ridiculous trolls who don't actually have one.
> 
> Noisy? Yes, it's noisy on an open bench, with a mike next to it. In a case, when you're gaming? No, it's not noisy at all at 50% fan. You can pretty much ignore any nonsense to the contrary.


Good to hear. Enjoy your new beast!


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> I believe the point he is trying (or rather, WAS, before I deleted his post and dozens of others that failed to follow my instructions) to make is that you're acting like it's the end of the world that the reference cooler on this card is garbage, whilst at the same time posting your elaborate aftermarket cooler/fan setup on some other card you have.
> 
> IOW, it appears ... ummmm ... 'hypocritical' ... when some person rails on about the inadequacy of a card's reference cooling solution when, in reality, that person has no qualms about ripping the cooler off and installing some cooling system of their creation on other cards that they own. It makes it look like one is complaining about the cooler just because they have nothing else to really complain about when it comes to this card.
> 
> This 'angle' that you (and a few other nV fans on this thread) are taking here is frankly disingenuous and leading to endless strife and bickering, and it's really starting to annoy me cleaning up the messes that result from it.
> 
> Everyone around here knows I generally lean towards nV cards (though I'm far from a fanboy) and even I'll admit that it's freaking PAINFULLY obvious that this is a great card at a great friggin' price. And NOBODY HERE gives a flying you-know-what about the fact that the stock cooler is crap because we ALL know how to deal with a problem of this nature, ESPECIALLY YOU, given the picture you posted.
> 
> So how about you, *and all the rest of the green-side FANS* (to be clear AMD, you are not the only one causing issues on this thread, I just randomly chose one of many possible posts from many possible people to respond to) give it a friggin' rest and let AMD have their little moment here?
> 
> This card coming out in the end works to the benefit of us all ... except perhaps for some owners of Titans and 780s who look at it's price and performance and choose to feel sad over it (even though they really shouldn't). And even they will probably benefit down the line, even if they feel sad now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom-line, my patience for this 'argument' about the temps/crappy reference cooler (along with all the personal attacks and general disrespect) on this thread is wearing thin, so unless people wish to not have this thread to discuss this card on anymore, I strongly suggest people take a more civil and less 'personal' approach to this discussion, and quit whinging over the weak cooler. NOBODY CARES ... not even the person doing the complaining (if they're remotely honest w/themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Well said.. & thank you.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Good to hear. Enjoy your new beast!


I can concur with him on that. I haven't actually heard the thing yet. My 6990 was definitely loud enough to hear when I would play a game. Now granted, the only thing I've done so far is fiddle with Fallout New Vegas so perhaps the card simply hasn't been pushed yet.


----------



## Robilar

I've always been curious how this cooler would work on a high end GPU.

Would it work in conjunction with the R290x?

http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/RobilarOCN/media/hybrid_zps200262af.jpg.html


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I've always been curious how this cooler would work on a high end GPU.
> 
> Would it work in conjunction with the R290x?
> 
> http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/RobilarOCN/media/hybrid_zps200262af.jpg.html


Me too. Have been eying it for a while. Should be better than mk-26


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

For a card such as this I'd rather just get a proper block and loop rather than fool with something like that. But that's just me...


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> Fallout New Vegas.


So what's the issue?





And that's with Supersampling set to 4x and override. I could go higher easily.

Fences and bushes look as good as they possibly can in this game.

EDIT: Adaptive Multisampling





The difference between SSAA and Adaptive MSAA is almost indistinguishable in this game.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Would be awesome if someone would make a closed loop cooler with full-cover block. It would cost 150$ more, but for those of us who will never water-cool it would be a perfect solution. I just don't want to bother with refilling fluid every time I need to pull some component out.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Honestly, if you are going to aircool no matter what I'd say to stick with the GTX780 (or possibly the 780Ti when it drops). Kepler seems to be more efficient to me than GCN and the reference cooler on the 780 is vastly superior to the 290X. Might sacrafice a bit on performance though as unlocking voltages on air is a no-go with GK110 AFAIK...


----------



## mboner1

It begins... Gigabyte 780 can be had for $10 cheaper than a 290x in Australia







(780 is $689, 20x is $699)

Legit question, what would you do?? I would be staying on air with the 290x as well and ramping up the fan.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

want Sapphire to make 290 atomic. Not sure why they gave up on atomic series. 4870x2 was awesome:


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Honestly, if you are going to aircool no matter what I'd say to stick with the GTX780 (or possibly the 780Ti when it drops). Kepler seems to be more efficient to me than GCN and the reference cooler on the 780 is vastly superior to the 290X. Might sacrafice a bit on performance though as unlocking voltages on air is a no-go with GK110 AFAIK...


I've mulled and mulled, and I would agree that the 780 is a solid alternative to this card, but it's just not the time to press buy on a GTX780 due to incoming price drops.

Not going water either, but I loved adding Accellero's to my past Radeon cards, which effectively drop temps buy around 35C if you max the fans, which are silent as all hell.

Yep, performance + fun of installing a vga cooler > physx and slightly better energy efficiency in my mind right now, just wish they would re-stock







.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> It begins... Gigabyte 780 can be had for $10 cheaper than a 290x in Australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (780 is $689, 20x is $699)
> 
> Legit question, what would you do?? I would be staying on air with the 290x as well and ramping up the fan.


On air I'd personally go with the 780 though you should hold out for a bit and see what Nvidia does price-wise. I'm guessing when AMD drops the 290 Nvidia will price the 780 in line with that and will release the 780Ti near the 290X's $550...


----------



## Moustache

Quite Mode (40%) = 700-800mhz
Boost Mode (55%) = 800-900mhz
Ultra Mode (100%) = 900-1000mhz (rarely hit 1000mhz due to a bad reference cooling)

In the more demanding games like Crysis 3 and Far Cry 3, it can go as low as -200mhz.

We can't see the full potential of 290X until someone bench it under water or on a custom cooling.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> So what's the issue?
> The difference between SSAA and Adaptive MSAA is almost indistinguishable in this game.


Holy crap. HOW. This is on an AMD card? Which? I must know how you're doing this. Are you using CCC or RadeonPro? Screenshots of your precise settings would be very much appreciated. (And your in-launcher settings also.) You have given me hope!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Wait, is Mantle releasing in December only or will BF4 utilize it from day 1? I only ask because the AMD rep said in another thread (that got locked) that he didn't know specific performance increases for Mantl but that benchmarks would be released when BF4 releases. Maybe Mantle will work for BF4 at launch???


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Honestly, if you are going to aircool no matter what I'd say to stick with the GTX780 (or possibly the 780Ti when it drops). Kepler seems to be more efficient to me than GCN and the reference cooler on the 780 is vastly superior to the 290X. Might sacrafice a bit on performance though as unlocking voltages on air is a no-go with GK110 AFAIK...


What about the 780 Classys and the lightenings aren't they unlocked?

As for the 290s what about the ones with aftermarket cooling? Should bring down the temps considerably.

I want to see the 780 at 450-500$


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> It begins... Gigabyte 780 can be had for $10 cheaper than a 290x in Australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (780 is $689, 20x is $699)
> 
> Legit question, what would you do?? I would be staying on air with the 290x as well and ramping up the fan.


I'd wait until the nonreferenced models come out. 290X is a fast card, but incredibly flawed. 780's generally have another 20-30% overclock ability. The reference 290X cooler may inhibit you from really letting the GPU stretch its legs.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyside*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> We run ~10-15$ a day down here, & that's less than the old house with dual-AC. 5,000$ a year on power is no fun. *These cost more to run than titans, they better be faster.*
> 
> 
> 
> Having 2x 290X instead of 2x Titans, will cost you max 5$ per month.
Click to expand...

(i know its been a minute since you posted but . .)
ahhh, please don't make assumptions how much the cost of electric is for folks. my electric company charges MORE to deliver the power than it costs to generate it.

my blood boils over it every time i look at a bill . . . and i ought to stop right there before i find myself delivering a very long winded, off topic rant . . thanks for listening.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Wait, is Mantle releasing in December only or will BF4 utilize it from day 1? I only ask because the AMD rep said in another thread (that got locked) that he didn't know specific performance increases for Mantl but that benchmarks would be released when BF4 releases. Maybe Mantle will work for BF4 at launch???


No, Mantle will be released via patch in December, unfortunately.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> Holy crap. HOW. This is on an AMD card? Which? I must know how you're doing this. Are you using CCC or RadeonPro? Screenshots of your precise settings would be very much appreciated. (And your in-launcher settings also.) You have given me hope!


HD 7870 XT (gimped HD 7950) which is a GCN card (same architecture as the R7/R9 series cards.)


Don't use RadeonPro. Set everything to default and close it.
Right click on your desktop and choose "AMD VISION Engine Control Center"
Choose the tab that says "Gaming" and choose "3D Application Settings"
Under "Anti-Aliasing" set the following settings:
*Anti-Aliasing Mode:* Override Application Settings
*Anti-Aliasing Samples:* 4x (or higher)
*Filter:* Standard
*Anti-Aliasing Method:* Adaptive Multisampling (or) Supersampling


For New Vegas, max out the settings outside the game (choose "options" and then click the "ultra" button) and load in. Bear in mind, the current driver I'm using is 13.4. The newest drivers may or may not have a bug in them that prevents this from working.

Good luck!


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> _"Anti-Aliasing Method"_ is not in my RadeonPro (nor does that exact phrase pop up in association with RadeonPro with Google). If you meant _"Anti-Aliasing Mode"_, yes I have that, and the three options listed below it are: _Multi-sample, Adaptive (Performance), Adaptive (Quality)._ Regardless of whether or not "Adaptive (Quality)" = "Supersampling", choosing Supersampling from within CCC gives identical results.


He just posted a pic of it being shown lol...


----------



## mboner1

Cheers guys, still thinking the 290x is the better deal, nice to see the 780 matching the price even if it is only the gigabyte card at 1 store lol. Think i'm gonna have to make a move in the next few days, my decision may be influenced by availability one way or the other in the end.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I've always been curious how this cooler would work on a high end GPU.
> 
> Would it work in conjunction with the R290x?
> 
> http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/RobilarOCN/media/hybrid_zps200262af.jpg.html


I'd be concerned that the single thick radiator might not be able to keep up with the thermal requirements. Better than air cooling, but over a lengthy gaming session the water might heat up and affect performance. An H80 with the double thick radiator and a mod bracket might be a better choice.


----------



## Slaughterem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Quite Mode (40%) = 700-800mhz
> Boost Mode (55%) = 800-900mhz
> Ultra Mode (100%) = 900-1000mhz (rarely hit 1000mhz due to a bad reference cooling)
> 
> In the more demanding games like Crysis 3 and Far Cry 3, it can go as low as -200mhz.
> 
> We can't see the full potential of 290X until someone bench it under water or on a custom cooling.


The reason why this thread is so ridiculous is because everyone thinks they are the expert on this new card. I am not an expert but at least I will take the time to understand why the card is running at 95 degrees. This is the level where the card can draw the most amount of power to have increased performance. The cooler is the old cooler from the 7970 but it can cool more because of newtons law of cooling. So to say this is a crap cooler is not understanding the technology of PowerTune.
Quote:


> With that in mind, why would AMD even want to increase their operating temperatures to 95C? In short, to take full advantage of Newton's Law of Cooling. Newton's Law of Cooling dictates that the greater the gradient between a heat source and its environment, the more heat energy can be transferred. Or in other words, AMD is able to remove more heat energy from the GPU with the same cooling apparatus simply by operating at a higher temperature. Ergo a 290X operating at 95C can consume more power (operate at greater performance levels) while requiring no increase in cooling (noise) over what a 290X that operates at a lower temperature would require


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Cheers guys, still thinking the 290x is the better deal, nice to see the 780 matching the price even if it is only the gigabyte card at 1 store lol. Think i'm gonna have to make a move in the next few days, my decision may be influenced by availability one way or the other in the end.


even if you were 100% dead set on the 290X, I'd still wait for the nonreferenced models.

Just like today, nobody in their right mind would buy a 7970 reference model over a sapphire, or XFX double, or etc..etc...

You would have lowered your potential performance on a GPU that you could potentially be using for years, just because you didn't wait an extra few weeks.


----------



## supermi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> Oh, did he really?
> 
> I suppose it's decent idea, however ... he SO just elected himself babysitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also re: the bandwidth ... it very well could be exactly that. I did some tests about a year ago and was astonished to find how significantly bandwidth affects perf as you go up in resolution. At least it does on a GTX670, going from 1920x1200 up to 2560x1600.


bandwidth or ROPs that are making such a difference at that res? Both?


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I'd be concerned that the single thick radiator might not be able to keep up with the thermal requirements. Better than air cooling, but over a lengthy gaming session the water might heat up and affect performance. An H80 with the double thick radiator and a mod bracket might be a better choice.


It should be plenty for 1 GPU. Check Asus Ares II (7990):
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/ARES_II/32.html


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I've always been curious how this cooler would work on a high end GPU.
> 
> Would it work in conjunction with the R290x?
> 
> http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/RobilarOCN/media/hybrid_zps200262af.jpg.html


I am pretty sure you can buy custom mounting hardware for mounting say a H80 to any GPU. Probably would be the closest thing to closed loop performance. Certainly better cooling performance than what that little unit can handle.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> even if you were 100% dead set on the 290X, I'd still wait for the nonreferenced models.
> 
> Just like today, nobody in their right mind would buy a 7970 reference model over a sapphire, or XFX double, or etc..etc...
> 
> You would have lowered your potential performance on a GPU that you could potentially be using for years, just because you didn't wait an extra few weeks.


Yeah, would any of the existing aftermarket coolers be a viable option for the 290x or no one know yet?

This is literally one of only 2 aftermarket coolers i can find in Aus, and it's only available online. Ebay might be my best bet if this is no good?

Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo II


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Yeah, would any of the existing aftermarket coolers be a viable option for the 290x or no one know yet?
> 
> This is literally one of only 2 aftermarket coolers i can find in Aus, and it's only available online. Ebay might be my best bet if this is no good?
> 
> Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo II


I don't think that can handle the heat output. Had one similar to that on my 4870 and even at 100% fan speed it could bearly handle the heat with over volting. Works great at stock though and is very quiet


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I don't think that can handle the heat output. Had one similar to that on my 4870 and even at 100% fan speed it could bearly handle the heat with over volting. Works great at stock though and is very quiet


Cheers +rep. Just saw a video with it doing a good job on the 570 in furmark and it's available so thought i would check.


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I don't think that can handle the heat output. Had one similar to that on my 4870 and even at 100% fan speed it could bearly handle the heat with over volting. Works great at stock though and is very quiet


It might not be as good as the Accelero Extreme but its sure to be better than stock by a longshot.


----------



## SoloCamo

Does gpu-z not report this properly or is it just me?

Besides, with a proper fan profile set up, it's really not that loud and temps are fine.. Using it in a Thor V2 case


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Yeah, would any of the existing aftermarket coolers be a viable option for the 290x or no one know yet?
> 
> This is literally one of only 2 aftermarket coolers i can find in Aus, and it's only available online. Ebay might be my best bet if this is no good?
> 
> Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo II


I have 0 idea, BUT i'd doubt it. Not that particular one at least. I'd rather wait until Accerlero either certifies the performance levels (and compatibility) before just buying a Accelero Xtreme III and hoping it'd be enough.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> I have 0 idea, BUT i'd doubt it. Not that particular one at least. I'd rather wait until Accerlero either certifies the performance levels (and compatibility) before just buying a Accelero Xtreme III and hoping it'd be enough.


Yeah, i haven't installed a aftermarket cooler before either lol, so don't really want to just wing it. Am i right in assuming to use a water block you need to water cool your whole system??


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> 
> Don't use RadeonPro. Set everything to default and close it.
> Right click on your desktop and choose "AMD VISION Engine Control Center"
> Choose the tab that says "Gaming" and choose "3D Application Settings"
> Under "Anti-Aliasing" set the following settings:
> *Anti-Aliasing Mode:* Override Application Settings
> *Anti-Aliasing Samples:* 4x (or higher)
> *Filter:* Standard
> *Anti-Aliasing Method:* Adaptive Multisampling (or) Supersampling


Okay. The good news is that getting rid of RadeonPro (had to end the app) and using AMD's thing does indeed get me the result you're getting. The bad news is that it's AMD's thing (mine is called Catalyst Control Center - not really positive it's the same thing, but probably). I see no control for "ambient occlusion" - something RadeonPro definitely offers. So now I am wondering if there is any way to hybridize the two methods. RadeonPro fails at forcing an AA mode, and CCC fails at offering all of the card's actual capabilities (and I assume ambient occlusion isn't exclusive to the 290X...). Still, you get a big thumbs up for helping me out. Many thanks.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Yeah, would any of the existing aftermarket coolers be a viable option for the 290x or no one know yet?


Yes, the Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme III and the Prolimatech MK-26 have both been confirmed to work on the R9 290X. The Apenfonh Peter is another close bet.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Yeah, i haven't installed a aftermarket cooler before either lol, so don't really want to just wing it. Am i right in assuming to use a water block you need to water cool your whole system??


No, you can have a loop that only cools the GPU. or you could get the Accelero Xtreme Hybrid, which is a self contained pump/rad/block


----------



## naved777

Holly Molly LOL


----------



## skupples

GK110 is fine up to 1.212, not quite unlocked, but more than stock bios.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malmental*
> 
> So consensus states it's a good card but overclocked falls short of GTX 780, GTX Titan depending on game and resolution..
> Isn't that how it's always been...?


The consensus that that it cannot overclock well on a stock cooler. Why are people so quick to write this card off? It's extremely temp limited and the custom cooling hasn't arrived yet. At the moment we don't know what they are capable of when kept cool.


----------



## wermad

From the newegg video review, the guy says its designed to run @ 95°C so I don't think the temp has to do w/ oc capability. Or is this just a lame excuse by Amd to justify the higher temps (and higher tdp and noise)? I guess once these are under water we'll find out


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> From the newegg video review, the guy says its designed to run @ 95°C so I don't think the temp has to do w/ oc capability. Or is this just a lame excuse by Amd to justify the higher temps (and higher tdp and noise)? I guess once these are under water we'll find out


Temps have everything to do with OC ability. The more voltage you add the higher the temp and power draw the hotter the card gets, and a card that runs at 95c can't really afford to get any hotter... The stock cooler just plain sucks, no matter how awesome the core (and price) is there is way around the fact that the cooler bottlenecks it's performance badly.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Temps have everything to do with OC ability. The more voltage you add the higher the temp and power draw the hotter the card gets, an a card that runs at 95c can't really afford to get any hotter...


Correct, but if the card was "designed to run hot", then its oc ability should be minimally impacted by temps. I know the Keplers were limited by temps but Hawaii is a different beast. I don't know if that's just propaganda by amd (more likely) but the community says it can. We just don't know until someone gets one under better cooling. For now, I'm sure an owner will crank up the fan speed and find out how much it can be pushed on the stock cooler. Even if its louder then Arrow Head stadium


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

It may be that the core is just hot and power hungry and that no cooler will keep it as cool as we are used to. Or the cooler could just suck. Regardless, this card was made to order for water cooling and I can't wait to see some results with the EK blocks installed...


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> The consensus that that it cannot overclock well on a stock cooler. Why are people so quick to write this card off? It's extremely temp limited and the custom cooling hasn't arrived yet. At the moment we don't know what they are capable of when kept cool.


we are well aware that clock for clock R9 290X wrecks the 780. we are also aware the stock cooler is holding back the r9 290x. even then the r9 290x at 1.1 ghz can keep up with custom designed GTX 780 cards at 1.3 ghz.

for people who want the best performance for USD 650 get the R9 290X and slap a prolimatech mk-26 with two 120 mm PWM 4 pin silent fans.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835242030

here is gibbo of ocuk. temps dropped by 30c with prolimatech mk-26.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551550

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerbase.de%2Fnews%2F2013-10%2Farctic-und-prolimatech-unterstuetzen-radeon-r9-290x%2F

the arctic accelero xtreme iii and arctic accelero hybrid are also compatible.









www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186067
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186068


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Temps have everything to do with OC ability. The more voltage you add the higher the temp and power draw the hotter the card gets, and a card that runs at 95c can't really afford to get any hotter... The stock cooler just plain sucks, no matter how awesome the core (and price) is there is way around the fact that the cooler bottlenecks it's performance badly.


This. Tahiti is a prime example although not an extreme example compared to Hawaii. Though in general the cooler the better for everything. What we have is the largest GPU AMD has made in sometime with possibly the most inadequate cooling solution for said GPU.

We've had some early leak/results of 1200/1600 by at least one person, though assuming on water. As Illusive also says custom cooling solutions will bring temps down quite a bit. Fermi would be a good comparison for this card. Reference Fermi running 88C custom solutions dropped that into the 60s or at least for my 470 it's the case.


----------



## scorpscarx

Wermad:
Correct, but if the card was "designed to run hot", then its oc ability should be minimally impacted by temps.

My XFX 6970 never goes over 60C with a 3 fan Arctic accellero yet needs exponentially more volts past 950 on the core.

950/1450 @ 1.2 and I gave up after it still being unstable at 1.29 @ 1000/1450, and that's where it would simply drop back to Windows rather than totally locking me up.

So you have a point, although from forums/reviews it does seem like the 290x does have a higher threshold, whether it be heat or _something else_ that's stopping it.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> Correct, but if the card was "designed to run hot", then its oc ability should be minimally impacted by temps. I know the Keplers were limited by temps but Hawaii is a different beast. I don't know if that's just propaganda by amd (more likely) but the community says it can. We just don't know until someone gets one under better cooling. For now, I'm sure an owner will crank up the fan speed and find out how much it can be pushed on the stock cooler. Even if its louder then Arrow Head stadium


"Designed to run hot" is just marketing speak for "don't freak out about the heat pls buy our card, this is the best cooling we could do without making you deaf"








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Wermad:
> Correct, but if the card was "designed to run hot", then its oc ability should be minimally impacted by temps.
> 
> My XFX 6970 never goes over 60C with a 3 fan Arctic accellero yet needs exponentially more volts past 950 on the core.
> 
> 950/1450 @ 1.2 and I gave up after it still being unstable at 1.29 @ 1000/1450, and that's where it would simply drop back to Windows rather than totally locking me up.
> 
> So you have a point, although from forums/reviews it does seem like the 290x does have a higher threshold, whether it be heat or _something else_ that's stopping it.


the card throttles with *stock* voltage and clocks because it gets too hot, how can you OC something that throttles at stock?

Your HD6950 is a bad core, some cores just OC worse then others. I had a 7970 that couldn't go about 1150Mhz with the stock cooler, i slapped an Accelero on it and lowered it's maximum temps to 60c and it was easily benching 1300Mhz with ~1.250v.... i accidentally killed it and my new card won't even go to 1150Mhz, even at 1.3v even when temps are below 60c. My point is that it's a bad core and no cooling will fix that, it's the silicon lottery.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> "Designed to run hot" is just marketing speak for "don't freak out about the heat pls buy our card, this is the best cooling we could do without making you deaf"


This release was an AMD release, not a 3rd party release, if you know what I mean. AMD just threw the crappiest cooler on it, and probably saved some money, which is good for me since I'm going water anyway. Let the aftermarket companies fight over the price war.


----------



## TheRussian1

What was AMD thinking when releasing this kind of cooler? They knew how Nvidia was ridiculed for Fermi...

When non-reference coolers come out, IMO 780 and Titan will become irrelevant however. I am not optimistic about 780Ti price either....


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> on that subject....USA needs to get more in stock already. Did AMD not foresee them selling this fast and only sent places like newegg an entire 2 cards or something?


Well I got 3 from new egg and 3 from TD. 12am est on the 24th.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheRussian1*
> 
> What was AMD thinking when releasing this kind of cooler? They knew how Nvidia was ridiculed for Fermi...
> 
> When non-reference coolers come out, IMO 780 and Titan will become irrelevant however. I am not optimistic about 780Ti price either....


They were thinking that it is going create a more attractive price than what it would be if they spent money in an aluminum shroud with vapor chambers and high quality fan like nvidia did, and most people buying those cards just threw them under water anyway.

Stay tuned for WC results.


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> the card throttles with *stock* voltage and clocks because it gets too hot, how can you OC something that throttles at stock?


Right, but I think it's premature to assume that the R9-290x is going to run a 24/7 overclock any more than 1200-1250 even with unlocked volts, regardless of temps.

Wild guess is a wild guess though of course.


----------



## EastCoast

Now that's it's clear that the 290X is top dog all we need to know now is how many games/game engines will take on Mantle. IMO, BF4 is a very good 1st start.


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughterem*
> 
> The reason why this thread is so ridiculous is because everyone thinks they are the expert on this new card. I am not an expert but at least I will take the time to understand why the card is running at 95 degrees. This is the level where the card can draw the most amount of power to have increased performance. The cooler is the old cooler from the 7970 but it can cool more because of newtons law of cooling. So to say this is a crap cooler is not understanding the technology of PowerTune.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> With that in mind, why would AMD even want to increase their operating temperatures to 95C? In short, to take full advantage of Newton's Law of Cooling. Newton's Law of Cooling dictates that the greater the gradient between a heat source and its environment, the more heat energy can be transferred. Or in other words, AMD is able to remove more heat energy from the GPU with the same cooling apparatus simply by operating at a higher temperature. Ergo a 290X operating at 95C can consume more power (operate at greater performance levels) while requiring no increase in cooling (noise) over what a 290X that operates at a lower temperature would require
Click to expand...

This


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> Right, but I think it's premature to assume that the R9-290x is going to run a 24/7 overclock any more than 1200-1250 even with unlocked volts, regardless of temps.
> 
> Wild guess is a wild guess though of course.


I think it's premature to assume anything about it's overclocking right now. The stock cooler is so bad that we haven't had a chance to see what these cards can do. tsm106 just bought one and put a modded water-cooler on it so it should be interesting to see what he gets. That guy is a great overclocker and when he puts his results up then we can get an image about what these things can do. I'm not under the false illusion that puttting them under water will net 1300Mhz EZ or anything like that







but i do think it will help them greatly.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Should be an interesting week, the real star of the show is coming on October 31st though, i think that R9-290 will prove to be the best bang/buck card we've seen for a long time. But that's just imo.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> even if you were 100% dead set on the 290X, I'd still wait for the nonreferenced models.
> 
> Just like today, nobody in their right mind would buy a 7970 reference model over a sapphire, or XFX double, or etc..etc...
> 
> You would have lowered your potential performance on a GPU that you could potentially be using for years, just because you didn't wait an extra few weeks.


To have before BF4 drops... then after the holidays grab an aftermarket solution and still under $650 bucks...

edit: rumor of a $399 R9 290 ..?


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughterem*
> 
> The reason why this thread is so ridiculous is because everyone thinks they are the expert on this new card. I am not an expert but at least I will take the time to understand why the card is running at 95 degrees. This is the level where the card can draw the most amount of power to have increased performance. The cooler is the old cooler from the 7970 but it can cool more because of newtons law of cooling. So to say this is a crap cooler is not understanding the technology of PowerTune.


Im lost. using your newtons laws of cooling, can you explain why the best overclockers use LN2?


----------



## SoloCamo

With out even trying so far I'm at 1075 / 1300 as my first set it and forget it OC on my sapphire reference, and it's not throttling at all so far.. Keep in mind, not running furmark here, but Metro 2033 maxed benchmark loops.. a decent fan profile and case cooling will make all the difference


----------



## Johnny Rook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> They were thinking that it is going create a more attractive price than what it would be if they spent money in an aluminum shroud with vapor chambers and high quality fan like nvidia did, and most people buying those cards just threw them under water anyway.
> 
> Stay tuned for WC results.


I agree! If AMD had put a cooler with the build quality and levels of performance nVIDIA slap on the GTX 780, then R9 290X would have been as costly as $600 to say the least. $50 premium is quite reasonable for such a cooler.

What I don't agree is that "most people buying those cards just threw then under water anyway". In fact, is quite the opposite. I know a bunch of TITAN and GTX 780 owners, me included, that bought the reference design because of the cooler! I actually, feel is a criminal offense against artistic expression to takeout the cooler and install a waterblock!

I am using watercooling since 2008, I had all my cards under water before. So, you can see how serious I am about loving this stock cooler. However, I respect those who put the cards on water. I don't agree but, I accept.

Yeah, bring on those bench results!


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Rook*
> 
> I agree! If AMD had put a cooler with the build quality and levels of performance nVIDIA slap on the GTX 780, then R9 290X would have been as costly as $600 to say the least. $50 premium is quite reasonable for such a cooler.
> 
> What I don't agree is that "most people buying those cards just threw then under water anyway". In fact, is quite the opposite. I know a bunch of TITAN and GTX 780 owners, me included, that bought the reference design because of the cooler! I actually, feel is a criminal offense against artistic expression to takeout the cooler and install a waterblock!
> 
> I am using watercooling since 2008, I had all my cards under water before. So, you can see how serious I am about loving this stock cooler. However, I respect those who put the cards on water. I don't agree but, I accept.
> 
> Yeah, bring on those bench results!


Well everyone on this thread seems to care about max oc performance, and with the stock cooler, you're not going to get the 1300mhz+ volt modded titans.
I had two 690s, the stock cooler was amazing, but to get max oc performance, you had to get a waterblock.

If you were planning to aircool, then sure I bet you would have loved the stock cooler on 780/titan/690. But these are basic designs, mostly everyone is going to watercool them. Non reference designs will come soon, and people can choose what cooler they want instead of being limited to one.


----------



## Johnny Rook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Well everyone on this thread seems to care about max oc performance, and with the stock cooler, you're not going to get the 1300mhz+ volt modded titans.
> I had two 690s, the stock cooler was amazing, but do get max oc performance, you had to get a waterblock.


Sure!

What I meant was that not everyone takes a GTX 780 or TITAN to run games @ 1300MHz or to beat benchmark records (although I've seen 780 @ 1333MHz on air!), at least not straight from day-one. Many people get the card just to play games smoothly. And GTX 780/TITAN plays every game perfectly @ 1163MHz, and for that it doesn't need voltage mods.
Myself, I am willing to put it on water when the majority of games need 1202MHz to run smooth. But, perhaps, by then, I don't have the card anymore.

I am sure many R9 290X owners are only interested on getting the card to play games smoothly. The only reasons to put a block in that case would be noise and heat. But, from what I read in the users' feedback, the card is not that loud in Quiet mode.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Slaughterem*
> 
> The reason why this thread is so ridiculous is because everyone thinks they are the expert on this new card. I am not an expert but at least I will take the time to understand why the card is running at 95 degrees. This is the level where the card can draw the most amount of power to have increased performance. The cooler is the old cooler from the 7970 but it can cool more because of newtons law of cooling. So to say this is a crap cooler is not understanding the technology of PowerTune.
> 
> 
> 
> Im lost. using your newtons laws of cooling, can you explain why the best overclockers use LN2?
Click to expand...

well isn't the temperature of LN2 lower than "normal" ambient?

here is another way to put it; heat is attracted to cold. put two objects next to each other with different temperatures and the lower temperature one will get warmer. the colder (or lower temperature) the object is, the more the heat is attracted to it.

you probably knew this all along without realizing it, esp if you read cpu cooler reviews. because what is the first question that is answered?

"what is the ambient temp?" the lower the ambient temp, the better the cooler will perform.

AMD is stating this backward we could suppose; the hotter the chip, the better our cooler performs . . .


----------



## skupples

people should really be stating "most people on ocn will be watercooling" These cards' are aimed at a certain market that may not be able to shell out the 400-500$ require to build a basic loop.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> people should really be stating "most people on ocn will be watercooling" These cards' are aimed at a certain market that may not be able to shell out the 400-500$ require to build a basic loop.


Ill one up you and say most people should be using non-reference cooling if they do any overclocking at all (titan, 780, 770 excluded). Serious overclockering should most definitely NOT be done using air


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Rook*
> 
> Sure!
> 
> What I meant was that not everyone takes a GTX 780 or TITAN to run games @ 1300MHz or to beat benchmark records (although I've seen 780 @ 1333MHz on air!), at least not straight from day-one. Many people get the card just to play games smoothly. And GTX 780/TITAN plays every game perfectly @ 1163MHz, and for that it doesn't need voltage mods.
> Myself, I am willing to put it on water when the majority of games need 1202MHz to run smooth. But, perhaps, by then, I don't have the card anymore.
> 
> I am sure many R9 290X owners are only interested on getting the card to play games smoothly. The only reasons to put a block in that case would be noise and heat. But, from what I read in the users' feedback, the card is not that loud in Quiet mode.


Of course not everyone takes the block off the 780/titan//690, I ran my two on air for quite a while. What I meant was that the majority looking for the extreme overclocks just go straight water.


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> people should really be stating "most people on ocn will be watercooling" These cards' are aimed at a certain market that may not be able to shell out the 400-500$ require to build a basic loop.


I agree, because, once one choose to put a block and a rad in for the gpu, next come the block for the cpu, then, more rads, next, new pump/res hookup, next, the bling,[fittings], then......well, you guys know how it ends, NEVER!!!!


----------



## Blackops_2

The day i got my 7970 was benching at 1200/1700, though didn't push further cause i was on Air and it was becoming difficult to maintain stability. Not that that is anywhere near a max OC for a 7970 but it's a pretty heavy OC for a reference blower on tahiti or IMO but i may be really conservative.

I wish these cards were voltage unlocked, didn't think AMD was going to go down that rout


----------



## carlhil2

....and, don't even equate the number of case switches one make, case you have starting off, then, maybe a 932 HAF Advanced-Corsair 900D.......


----------



## MACH1NE

I set my fans to 100% on my gigabyte 7970 running 1225/1650 1.3 v while gaming. It doesnt bother me since i crank the volume anyway.


----------



## carlhil2

....all because you started off just wanting to get a higher overclock on your gpu....fun times...


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Of course not everyone takes the block off the 780/titan//690, I ran my two on air for quite a while. What I meant was that the majority looking for the *extreme overclocks* just go straight water.


Or simply want a more quiet PC.

Though People who think watercooling requires $600 are the ones that make me lul.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21236/ex-wat-271/XSPC_Raystorm_750_EX360_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_New_Rev_4_Pump_Included_w_Free_Dead-Water.html?tl=g30c321s1310

Plus around $100-140 on a GPU Block, and maybe the gear needed to hang the Rad off the back of your case if you can't fit it inside.

And your set.
Less then $300 needed for a cooling system that will blow the pants off any high end air cooler. Makes buying something like the H100 a huge waste of money.

Setup is nothing more then cutting the tubes to the right length and sliding them onto the barbs, then zip tie or clamp them for security. Then you fill up with water and bleed out the air, Not that hard.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Or simply want a more quiet PC.
> 
> Though People who think watercooling requires $600 are the ones that make me lul.
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21236/ex-wat-271/XSPC_Raystorm_750_EX360_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_New_Rev_4_Pump_Included_w_Free_Dead-Water.html?tl=g30c321s1310
> 
> Plus around $100-140 on a GPU Block, and maybe the gear needed to hang the Rad off the back of your case if you can't fit it inside.
> 
> And your set.
> Less then $300 needed for a cooling system that will blow the pants off any high end air cooler. Makes buying something like the H100 a huge waste of money.
> 
> Setup is nothing more then cutting the tubes to the right length and sliding them onto the barbs, then zip tie or clamp them for security. Then you fill up with water and bleed out the air, Not that hard.


While i agree, i'm curious would a single 360 rad be enough for a 290x and a 3770/4770k/8350/8320 etc. With moderate OCs? My loop will be around 600$, could be cheaper but it's personal choice and i'm going dual GPU for my upcoming 3770k build. My personal taste aside it could probably be done for 400$.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Or simply want a more quiet PC.
> 
> Though People who think watercooling requires $600 are the ones that make me lul.
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21236/ex-wat-271/XSPC_Raystorm_750_EX360_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_New_Rev_4_Pump_Included_w_Free_Dead-Water.html?tl=g30c321s1310
> 
> Plus around $100-140 on a GPU Block, and maybe the gear needed to hang the Rad off the back of your case if you can't fit it inside.
> 
> And your set.
> Less then $300 needed for a cooling system that will blow the pants off any high end air cooler. Makes buying something like the H100 a huge waste of money.
> 
> Setup is nothing more then cutting the tubes to the right length and sliding them onto the barbs, then zip tie or clamp them for security. Then you fill up with water and bleed out the air, Not that hard.


True, with water you get a quiet and potential for a highly overclocked pc. If you are budget limited, you can get a loop for very cheap that will outperform any air or closed loop.


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> While i agree, i'm curious would a single 360 rad be enough for a 290x and a 3770/4770k/8350/8320 etc. With moderate OCs? My loop will be around 600$, could be cheaper but it's personal choice and i'm going dual GPU for my upcoming 3770k build. My personal taste aside it could probably be done for 400$.


Using a Monsta 360, i say yes...


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> While i agree, i'm curious would a single 360 rad be enough for a 290x and a 3770/4770k/8350/8320 etc. With moderate OCs? My loop will be around 600$, could be cheaper but it's personal choice and i'm going dual GPU for my upcoming 3770k build. My personal taste aside it could probably be done for 400$.


A relatively thick 360 rad (60mm or 80mm) would be the fine imo, but at the bare minimum.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> While i agree, i'm curious would a single 360 rad be enough for a 290x and a 3770/4770k/8350/8320 etc. With moderate OCs? My loop will be around 600$, could be cheaper but it's personal choice and i'm going dual GPU for my upcoming 3770k build. My personal taste aside it could probably be done for 400$.


It would be well more then enough

You really only need 120mm per device and 120mm extra for reserve.

I ran two gtx470's @ 850 and a i7 920 @4.3 on two 240mm rads. I'm more then sure a single 290x and a 3770/4770 highly overclocked will have no problem with 360mm rad. Doesn't need to be thick at all, that XSPC one I linked would still do fine.


----------



## tx-jose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> A relatively thick 360 rad (60mm or 80mm) would be the fine imo, but at the bare minimum.


hard to say without having tested.

can't wait for the 780Ti launch to see if the 290X is mine or not. Deff going watter no matter what..i miss it.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> hard to say without having tested.
> 
> can't wait for the 780Ti launch to see if the 290X is mine or not. Deff going watter no matter what..i miss it.


The general rule is a 240rad for cpu and 120mm for a gpu. This is the bare minimum as I previously said. With an oc you might want a 480. I'm talking budget here man, I'm getting three 60mm thick 480s lol.


----------



## carlhil2

For the time being, til i move to my new build, i have my Titan in it's own loop with a Monsta 140mm, push/pull with fans at about 1600, gpu never goes above 42c...


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> The general rule is a 240rad for cpu and 120mm for a gpu. This is the bare minimum as I previously said. With an oc you might want a 480. I'm talking budget here man, I'm getting three 60mm thick 480s lol.


GPU's use more power then CPU's so I don't know why you would need a 240mm rad. If anything it would be the other way around once you start pushing those cards past 250watts.

The I7 3770/4770 already have a low TDP compared to the likes of my i7 920, so the heat dumped into the loop is not as bad as some of those power hog cpu's like mine and AMD chips.

120mm is still more then enough for a CPU, though while pushing you GPU really hard a 240 would be best.


----------



## SoloCamo

At 1100 / 1325 with reference cooler on second attempt... again no signs of throttling. Maybe I'm missing it but where are all of these throttle issues?


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> GPU's use more power then CPU's so I don't know why you would need a 240mm rad. If anything it would be the other way around once you start pushing those cards past 250watts.
> 
> 120mm is still more then enough for a CPU, though while pushing you GPU really hard a 240 would be best.


Because you could fit 20 cpus on a 290x. CPU dumps that heat straight into your loop, gpu has more room to dissipate the heat.


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> GPU's use more power then CPU's so I don't know why you would need a 240mm rad. If anything it would be the other way around once you start pushing those cards past 250watts.
> 
> 120mm is still more then enough for a CPU, though while pushing you GPU really hard a 240 would be best.


Easier to cool a gpu than a cpu, on load, both overclocked, my cpu gets about 15 degrees warmer....and my cpu is in it's own loop with a AX360 rad....


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> Because you could fit 20 cpus on a 290x. CPU dumps that heat straight into your loop, gpu has more room to dissipate the heat.


My old gtx470's would dump a lot more heat into my loop then my i7 does.

TDP on a videocard like the 290x is also lot higher then intel chips when while overclocked.

The effectiveness of a videocard waterblock is just as good at taking the heat away from a GPU. Just that the CPU is more temp sensitive, so even a change in ambient temp could change the ablity to overclock.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carlhil2*
> 
> Easier to cool a gpu than a cpu, on load, both overclocked, my cpu gets about 15 degrees warmer....and my cpu is in it's own loop with a AX360 rad....


Those Intel dies are pretty small, lot harder to pull heat off.

Core temp does not equal heat being dumped into loop. TDP is a better idea of heat being dumped into your water.


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Those Intel dies are pretty small, lot harder to pull heat off.


True, that's why i bought a 420mm Monsta for the cpu, then, hook the AX360 to the gpu...


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carlhil2*
> 
> True, that's why i bought a 420mm Monsta for the cpu, then, hook the AX360 to the gpu...


Though more rad space does keep water temp closer to ambient temps, what will lower the max cpu temp.

So always nice to have more, just not fully needed.


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Though more rad space does keep water temp closer to ambient temps, what will lower the max cpu temp.
> 
> So always nice to have more, just not fully needed.


Gotta fill up the 900D some how....


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Those Intel dies are pretty small, lot harder to pull heat off.
> 
> Core temp does not equal heat being dumped into loop. TDP is a better idea of heat being dumped into your water.


No one said core temp equals heat being dumped into the loop. My post said that before the heat goes to the water and radiators, the gpu has a considerable more amount of space to transfer heat to. That giant block and all the air around it absorb heat. The cpu has a little heatsink and a much smaller waterblock, *which means it needs more rad space to make up for it.
*
Also, running a hexacore overclocked is going to put out more watts than a 290x. No one aiming for a 1500mhz oc with volt mods on a 290x is going to be running a 240rad.


----------



## evensen007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> At 1100 / 1325 with reference cooler on second attempt... again no signs of throttling. Maybe I'm missing it but where are all of these throttle issues?


You're going to blow your house up. You're going to melt your cat's hair. You are going to wake up your neighbors! You're card is throttling. You should have waited for the 780ti!!!!!111111111oneoneone


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> No one said core temp equals heat being dumped into the loop. My post said that before the heat goes to the water and radiators, the gpu has a considerable more amount of space to transfer heat to. That giant block and all the air around it absorb heat. The cpu has a little heatsink and a much smaller waterblock, *which means it needs more rad space to make up for it.
> *
> Also, running a hexacore overclocked is going to put out more watts than a 290x. No one aiming for a 1500mhz oc with volt mods on a 290x is going to be running a 240rad.


well my current 7950 has a fullsize block

but my old gtx470's had a mwc60 and a mcw82 swiftech blocks that really are just as big as a CPU block.

Though intel chips still have little die area that make it hard to pull the heat from.
Doesn't mean it is dumping more heat into the loop, it actually dumps less heat into the loop because TDP is lower and worse heat transfer.
Only thing having more rads would do for that would bring the max load watertemp down, what in turn would also lower cpu temp.

GPU's always have a nice big die, and AMD doesn't use any heatplate ether. Makes for nice contact

Delidding a CPU would make it dump more heat into your loop as well, while also bring down core temp.









Also iirc a 120mm rad can handle upto 250watts before becoming overwhelmed. But always better to have as much rads as you can fit to keep watertemp down.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> It would be well more then enough
> 
> You really only need 120mm per device and 120mm extra for reserve.
> 
> I ran two gtx470's @ 850 and a i7 920 @4.3 on two 240mm rads. I'm more then sure a single 290x and a 3770/4770 highly overclocked will have no problem with 360mm rad. Doesn't need to be thick at all, that XSPC one I linked would still do fine.


I see.

I was thinking for my upcoming build which will be two 290/780/290x somewhere around there (which ever i can get at best price) and a moderately OCed 3770k (4.5ghz if i can manage it) to get a 360 and 240 bare minimum. Had originally planned for two 240s and one 360.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> well my current 7950 has a fullsize block
> 
> but my old gtx470's had a mwc60 and a mcw82 swiftech blocks that really are just as big as a CPU block.
> 
> Though intel chips still have little die area that make it hard to pull the heat from.
> Doesn't mean it is dumping more heat into the loop, it actually dumps less heat into the loop because TDP is lower and worse heat transfer.
> Only thing having more rads would do for that would bring the max load watertemp down, what in turn would also lower cpu temp.
> 
> GPU's always have a nice big die, and AMD doesn't use any heatplate ether. Makes for nice contact
> 
> Delidding a CPU would make it dump more heat into your loop as well, while also bring down core temp.


Depends what cpu and gpu. 3770k die isn't much smaller than a gk104 die. Hexacores have even bigger dies.

Also, the way you are thinking of it, makes it seem that 100% of that power drawn in from the wall goes straight into the die. It doesn't, there are A LOT of components spread out on the gpu. Lots of caps and such with draw power. All the components for cpus are basically in one area.


----------



## Death Saved

So Asus confirmes that they do not have plans to release DCUII until 2014, and Club 3D has not recievd a decent stock from AMD and that they would not forsee the release of any non refrence coolers until 2014.






So anyone else think that we will be seeing AIO water cooled designs from AMD's partners?


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> So Asus confirmes that they do not have plans to release DCUII until 2014, and Club 3D has not recievd a decent stock from AMD and that they would not forsee the release of any non refrence coolers until 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So anyone else think that we will be seeing AIO water cooled designs from AMD's partners?


A sapphire representative said custom cards aren't that far away and the reviewer for HardwareCanucks said that custom cards will be released in November.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> At 1100 / 1325 with reference cooler on second attempt... again no signs of throttling. Maybe I'm missing it but where are all of these throttle issues?


what is your average clock rate while gaming?


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> "Designed to run hot" is just marketing speak for "don't freak out about the heat pls buy our card, this is the best cooling we could do without making you deaf"












Cost-cutting in the thermal department paid off with an awesome msrp


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cost-cutting in the thermal department paid off with an awesome msrp


I'm ok with a turbine sitting in my case. I wear competition headphones with great noise cancelling on em. I can't hear anything. So the noise won't be a issue for me during gaming. And none gaming it's suppose to be rather quiet, so that works out.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I'm ok with a turbine sitting in my case. I wear competition headphones with great noise cancelling on em. I can't hear anything. So the noise won't be a issue for me during gaming. And none gaming it's suppose to be rather quiet, so that works out.


What fan speed are you running on your Hawaii?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Yeah, i haven't installed a aftermarket cooler before either lol, so don't really want to just wing it. Am i right in assuming to use a water block you need to water cool your whole system??


If you only want to cool the GPU, pick up an H80 and one of those mod brackets for it.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> If you only want to cool the GPU, pick up an H80 and one of those mod brackets for it.


but dem VRMs tho


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wermad*
> 
> What fan speed are you running on your Hawaii?


I'm still waiting for mine to arrive. International shipping takes longer than next day









But with my SLI 680's I run a rather aggressive fan curve into the 70-85% range during gaming. I know it will be louder than that, but I honestly can't hear crap with my headphones on. So even at 15-20% louder I won't mind.


----------



## Nerull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Im lost. using your newtons laws of cooling, can you explain why the best overclockers use LN2?


because colder is better but the hotter something is the quicker it will cool to ambient. So take a cup of boiling water and a cup of warm water. The hot water will have a greater change in temp over a period of time then the warmer water.

So basically what he was saying is that the hotter something is the more it will cool naturally without any aid therefore making the crap stock fan seem to work a little bit better.

(this is all based on what little i retain from thermo 10 years ago so take it for what it is).

In regards to the non ref boards, how much can each vendor modify the card? can they only change the colour of the card and the cooler or can they put more/better memory and other things to get better oc's?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> but dem VRMs tho


Get a bracket with a fan mount, or mod mount a fan blowing on them. Then sink them if you need to. Still cheaper and easier than laying out for a full loop just for the GPU.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nerull*
> 
> because colder is better but the hotter something is the quicker it will cool to ambient. So take a cup of boiling water and a cup of warm water. The hot water will have a greater change in temp over a period of time then the warmer water.
> 
> So basically what he was saying is that the hotter something is the more it will cool naturally without any aid therefore making the crap stock fan seem to work a little bit better.
> 
> (this is all based on what little i retain from thermo 10 years ago so take it for what it is).
> 
> In regards to the non ref boards, how much can each vendor modify the card? can they only change the colour of the card and the cooler or can they put more/better memory and other things to get better oc's?


The downside to that is that the hotter it is the more resistance there is, and so the more power you are drawing, which then turns into even more heat. So your temp gradient is better, but I don't know if you really come out ahead or not.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Get a bracket with a fan mount, or mod mount a fan blowing on them. Then sink them if you need to. Still cheaper and easier than laying out for a full loop just for the GPU.


Maybe for a budget benching rig... sounds like a hassle to me.

Watercooling is worth all the money imo.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Get a bracket with a fan mount, or mod mount a fan blowing on them. Then sink them if you need to. Still cheaper and easier than laying out for a full loop just for the GPU.


by the time you add up a h80 w/ fans + a bracket + a bracket fan + sinks, you might as well buy a Arctic Accelero Hybrid. You can find them on sale for $99 AUD these days (i have a link if people want it)


----------



## Nerull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> The downside to that is that the hotter it is the more resistance there is, and so the more power you are drawing, which then turns into even more heat. So your temp gradient is better, but I don't know if you really come out ahead or not.


yeah im pretty sure old mate was drawing a pretty long bow with saying that amd might of been thinking that.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> by the time you add up a h80 w/ fans + a bracket + a bracket fan + sinks, you might as well buy a Arctic Accelero Hybrid. You can find them on sale for $99 AUD these days (i have a link if people want it)


True, but the Hybrid has a pretty low surface area radiator on it - I'm not sure I'd trust it with the 300W+ on a 290X. I'd wait and see what other people report first.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> True, but the Hybrid has a pretty low surface area radiator on it - I'm not sure I'd trust it with the 300W+ on a 290X. I'd wait and see what other people report first.


fair enough.

oh btw, for anyone who was thinking "does it even fit though?"
Quote:


> ComputerBase confirmed that Prolimatech MK-26 and Arctic?s Accelero Xtreme III and Accelero Hybrid already support R9 290X, so if you are really desperate for lower temperatures and quieter operation this is probably the best way to go.


sauce


----------



## Forceman

So I guess that means it definitely has the same mounting hole alignment as the 7970s.


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I'm still waiting for mine to arrive. International shipping takes longer than next day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But with my SLI 680's I run a rather aggressive fan curve into the 70-85% range during gaming. I know it will be louder than that, but I honestly can't hear crap with my headphones on. So even at 15-20% louder I won't mind.


I'm thinking about selling my gtx 680 sli and getting one of these beasts. Please let me know if they meet your expectations or feel underpowered next to the SLI.


----------



## wermad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XxOsurfer3xX*
> 
> I'm thinking about selling my gtx 680 sli and getting one of these beasts. Please let me know if they meet your expectations or feel underpowered next to the SLI.


Some of the reviews already show the comparison. Just look for the GTX 690 in the 290x reviews; its essentially sli 680s.


----------



## Awsan

COME ON gigabyte where are the windforce cards


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> COME ON gigabyte where are the windforce cards


Reports say next month at the earliest, could be into 2014.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Reports say next month at the earliest, could be into 2014.


I have been with out a computer for a month and a half, Do i need to cry to prove that i am dying a little inside everyday


----------



## fateswarm

For players going long-term on their cards 290X seems like a bad decision. G-Sync will offer an immense improvement (I had doubts but now I'm almost certain they indeed deliver, it doesn't sync the fps to the hz, but the monitor to the card hence they theoretically don't inflict lag, if they have the communication and monitor hardware granularity to achieve it).

Then again, if you are one of those OCN users buying cards every 2 months, nothing to see here, move along.


----------



## altsanity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Awsan*
> 
> I have been with out a computer for a month and a half, Do i need to cry to prove that i am dying a little inside everyday


I know them feels.... I've been sitting without a GPU for a month now.... At least I have indie games and a 3DS to keep me from tears. But still, I want my 290X and I want it NAAOOOOOO


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> It would be well more then enough
> 
> You really only need 120mm per device and 120mm extra for reserve.
> 
> I ran two gtx470's @ 850 and a i7 920 @4.3 on two 240mm rads. I'm more then sure a single 290x and a 3770/4770 highly overclocked will have no problem with 360mm rad. Doesn't need to be thick at all, that XSPC one I linked would still do fine.


120mm extra in reserve is a bit over the top, honestly...I ran a GTX 470 @ 830 on a single 120mm rad and it had pretty great temps. (Never above 60c load in summer, with the fan at 7v)


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> For players going long-term on their cards 290X seems like a bad decision. G-Sync will offer an immense improvement (I had doubts but now I'm almost certain they indeed deliver, it doesn't sync the fps to the hz, but the monitor to the card hence they theoretically don't inflict lag, if they have the communication and monitor hardware granularity to achieve it).
> 
> Then again, if you are one of those OCN users buying cards every 2 months, nothing to see here, move along.


I'm a bit..Meh on G-sync. Sounds Cool, likely will work. But..Not worth the investment at this stage. I've got Tri 120hrz screens now that I just finished buying, I really don't have a desire to replace all my screens just for something like G-sync. I can see this being good for mid range users who struggle to keep 60+ consistently. But for users getting 100+ without a struggle..Why bother?


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XxOsurfer3xX*
> 
> I'm thinking about selling my gtx 680 sli and getting one of these beasts. Please let me know if they meet your expectations or feel underpowered next to the SLI.


I ordered 2







I like running dual cards. I normally skip a generation. So these should hold me for another year and a half.


----------



## DzillaXx

My biggest problem with gsync is needing to buy a new monitor to get it. Though the benefits are there.

Though even my standard 120hz monitor is still a decent jump over 60hz monitors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> 120mm extra in reserve is a bit over the top, honestly...I ran a GTX 470 @ 830 on a single 120mm rad and it had pretty great temps. (Never above 60c load in summer, with the fan at 7v)


Yeah I know, but always nice too have.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I'm a bit..Meh on G-sync. Sounds Cool, likely will work. But..Not worth the investment at this stage. I've got Tri 120hrz screens now that I just finished buying, I really don't have a desire to replace all my screens just for something like G-sync. I can see this being good for mid range users who struggle to keep 60+ consistently. But for users getting 100+ without a struggle..Why bother?


Because it's extremely hard to hold constant 120fps in all games, even with SLI / CF. Mostly it's because of cpu, my overclocked 2600K for example is not enough for BF3 and Borderlands 2. 3930K would help but I would still get fps drops in certain situations. I learned it the hard way, in order to 120Hz gaming feel smooth fps has to be over 100 constantly. My PC is far from middle range but it's still not enough.


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I ordered 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like running dual cards. I normally skip a generation. So these should hold me for another year and a half.


That is going to be an oven, although beastly...


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> Because it's extremely hard to hold constant 120fps in all games, even with SLI / CF. Mostly it's because of cpu, my overclocked 2600K for example is not enough for BF3 and Borderlands 2. 3930K would help but I would still get fps drops in certain situations. I learned it the hard way, in order to 120Hz gaming feel smooth fps has to be over 100 constantly. My PC is far from middle range but it's still not enough.


It's a give and take situation. I have my personal preference for competitive settings. With certain things on Ultra and others completely disabled or decreased in BF3 I can hold 120fps fairly smoothly. I personally hate shadows, bloom, and other annoying effects that are overused or system hogging. So I disable them.


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XxOsurfer3xX*
> 
> That is going to be an oven, although beastly...


It's getting to be winter, will help lower my heating bill


----------



## Joa3d43

As an 'fyi' re custom coolers (and perhaps even more important re custom VRMs / power section) ROG Asus has this...

_"As you'd expect, you can buy an ASUS branded R9 290X when its launches ... While at first this will follow the [reference] design above, later on expect *redesigned versions with improved cooling from an ASUS DirectCU II cooler and long-life, high-power VRM hardware from ASUS Super Alloy technolog*y."_

...unfortunately, 'later on' can mean many things re availability and dates


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> As an 'fyi' re custom coolers (and perhaps even more important re custom VRMs / power section) ROG Asus has this...
> 
> _"As you'd expect, you can buy an ASUS branded R9 290X when its launches ... While at first this will follow the [reference] design above, later on expect *redesigned versions with improved cooling from an ASUS DirectCU II cooler and long-life, high-power VRM hardware from ASUS Super Alloy technolog*y."_
> 
> ...unfortunately, 'later on' can mean many things re availability and dates


1-3 months as per normal. Will be easy enough for us reference folks to unload our chips for updated models if we cannot stand the heat.


----------



## formula m

I haven't seen a single R9 290x go on Newegg in the last 40 hours.. where are they?

What retailer is hiding them?


----------



## gregoryH

It looks like no review shows 290x results at stable 1000Mhz core clock, but I find that Polish site PurePC did such a test. I made a comparison across diffrent 290x operating modes.
http://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficzne/test_kart_graficznych_radeon_r9_290x_vs_geforce_gtx_780


----------



## Shadeh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I'm a bit..Meh on G-sync. Sounds Cool, likely will work. But..Not worth the investment at this stage. I've got Tri 120hrz screens now that I just finished buying, I really don't have a desire to replace all my screens just for something like G-sync. I can see this being good for mid range users who struggle to keep 60+ consistently. But for users getting 100+ without a struggle..Why bother?


It's just another gimmick - like physx. Out of the blue something like G sync is relevant.

Well hey, before i invest 150euro+ on gsync i'll much rather invest it in a graphic card. I have no problems, and i notice no stutters whatsoever.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> True, but the Hybrid has a pretty low surface area radiator on it - I'm not sure I'd trust it with the 300W+ on a 290X. I'd wait and see what other people report first.


Are you buying a R9 290x..? Then, of coarse you wouldn't trust that rad...

How about this, if u have a complete computer system, that means your CASE also dissipates heat... thus in & around your gpu.

People who "bench" do not have a controlled environment, even if they have moveable fans pointing on the device...

The point is, you've spent an awful long time in this naysaying nearly everything, until now it's come down to u having to say you can't trust after market cooling solution for the R9. It is literally absurd!

Just like how you & others don't like the smell of AMD plastic..? Admit it Forceman & just get one. There will be nothing to complain about afterwards..

Mind you,

I already want an R9 290x in my system and can't get one (sold out everywhere), but am equally anticipating the 780ti & will prob own both..


----------



## nunomoreira10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoryH*
> 
> It looks like no review shows 290x results at stable 1000Mhz core clock, but I find that Polish site PurePC did such a test. I made a comparison across diffrent 290x operating modes.
> http://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficzne/test_kart_graficznych_radeon_r9_290x_vs_geforce_gtx_780


Nice comparison
aftermarket cooling by it´s own is going to grant quite some gains and probably a much more stable operation.


----------



## provost

At this point, a number of people at OCN have received their cards and have started sharing their results in the owners thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1436497/official-amd-r9-290x-290-owners-club/790

you can then compare results to these threads
http://www.overclock.net/t/1360884/official-top-30-unigine-valley-benchmark-1-0
http://www.overclock.net/t/872945/top-30-3d-mark-13-fire-strike-scores
http://www.overclock.net/t/1361939/top-30-3dmark11-scores-for-single-dual-tri-quad
http://www.overclock.net/t/1406832/single-gpu-firestrike-top-30

There is also a 780/Titan vs 290x thread, and if people choose to post there, you can get a real world comparison

http://www.overclock.net/t/1436635/ocn-gk110-vs-hawaii-bench-off-thread

All this is to say is that now we have people with cards in their rigs and they can judge for themselves, and their results may even be more representative of the real world results than any review site


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoryH*
> 
> It looks like no review shows 290x results at stable 1000Mhz core clock, but I find that Polish site PurePC did such a test. I made a comparison across diffrent 290x operating modes.
> http://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficzne/test_kart_graficznych_radeon_r9_290x_vs_geforce_gtx_780


Now that looks promising.

Good find


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> what is your average clock rate while gaming?


It's holding steady at these speeds (1100 / 1325) according to AB. Been playing tons of Crysis 3 and BF3. Been using 8x AA on Crysis 3 just to really put the pressure on and it's holding fine. Again, adjusted my fan profile to be more aggressive and I'm running a case with pretty good air cooling as is (Thor V2).

It's a 'cool' day in Florida though, Summer will be another beast but that's when central air kicks in as well as a seperate window fan for the room as well. My old gtx480 taught me well as to handling a hot running card.


----------



## spitty13

So if you weren't one of those people lucky enough to buy one out of the five 290x newegg had, when would be the best estimate when they will have more in stock?


----------



## wstanci3

^ Think someone mentioned that they will restock on the same day as the 290 is released, 31st I believe.


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> ^ Think someone mentioned that they will restock on the same day as the 290 is released, 31st I believe.


That doesn't help anyone who play Battlefield....


----------



## szeged

they could just buy battlefield if they care about it so much then.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> That doesn't help anyone who play Battlefield....


Quite right. That's what I heard, but that does not mean it is right. There would only be 8000 units that would include the BF4 bundle. So, i don't know.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I'm a bit..Meh on G-sync. Sounds Cool, likely will work. But..Not worth the investment at this stage. I've got Tri 120hrz screens now that I just finished buying, I really don't have a desire to replace all my screens just for something like G-sync. I can see this being good for mid range users who struggle to keep 60+ consistently. But for users getting 100+ without a struggle..Why bother?


Can't you have the possibility of modding it into your current screens?

And there's plenty of reason to for the ultra high-end at least, imagine g-sync on 1440p tri-screen...You'd have 1440p 120hz for older games among other things such as a lack of tearing from what I've read.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Yeah I know, but always nice too have.


Being fair, I'd wager that when you start getting more than 1 GPU + a CPU, etc under water it'd start to be better to have the extra 120mm.


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Can't you have the possibility of modding it into your current screens?


It would rather defeat the purpose. You'd either have to cannibalise G-sync monitors for the parts, or somehow acquire what you need to create the mod. Be a rather large pain in the rear to modify screens. And honestly, if you are playing an older game, you likely don't have to worry about screen tearing anyways.


----------



## Slaughterem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoryH*
> 
> It looks like no review shows 290x results at stable 1000Mhz core clock, but I find that Polish site PurePC did such a test. I made a comparison across diffrent 290x operating modes.
> http://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficzne/test_kart_graficznych_radeon_r9_290x_vs_geforce_gtx_780


This ^^
To understand PowerTune one must know that it now takes 3 factors into consideration. Power, temp and fan speed or noise. This is a first in the industry and you will see Nvidia adopt this. The card will throttle when 2 of the three are reached. The ideal card will be with 2 8 pins at 150 each and the Pcie at 75 for a total of 375. You will want to have a cooler that keeps the card at 94 degrees and as power increases so does the cooler to keep it at 94. This goes back to Newtons law of cooling. You can see that this is apparent in this chart and this one from Hard OCP
http://hardocp.com/article/2013/10/23/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/13#.UmvfDvl9A1I
A good read to understand PowerTune is this http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/5


----------



## armartins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> So I guess that means it definitely has the same mounting hole alignment as the 7970s.


Not really the accelero has multi "holes" for the screws... I'd consider it "probably"not "definitely".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> I'm a bit..Meh on G-sync. Sounds Cool, likely will work. But..Not worth the investment at this stage. I've got Tri 120hrz screens now that I just finished buying, I really don't have a desire to replace all my screens just for something like G-sync. I can see this being good for mid range users who struggle to keep 60+ consistently. But for users getting 100+ without a struggle..Why bother?
> \


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadeh*
> 
> It's just another gimmick - like physx. Out of the blue something like G sync is relevant.
> 
> Well hey, before i invest 150euro+ on gsync i'll much rather invest it in a graphic card. I have no problems, and i notice no stutters whatsoever.


Just complementing: my opinion on G-Sync. I'm an AMD Supporter as far as their products make sense and the cost-benefit is there (it usually is). I was a long term eyefinity user (late 2009 until late 2012) and that blew my mind at the time... had been through 5970, 6970, 580, and 7+ different 7970s... I've lost interest in Eyefinity, and I can't go back to TN panels... but I really want 120hz and a resolution above 1080P... the korean 120hz 1440P monitor was a no brainer... I'm both happy and impressed with it. The lightboost mod was something interesting but it isn't a game changing thing in my opinion... I'm satisfied with the overal smoothness @120hz... but this G-Sync tech... it's a clever idea and it might be game changing for me. I will do any mods needed to implant it on my 120hz monitor hopefully there will be a mod kit for it. I can't stand vsync and the addeed latency, but fps cap doesn't avoid tearing... and even at 100+FPS with all mods in the world + ENB capping 3GB of vram... when you run through the pillars entering dragon's reach (skyrim) or any other perpendicular structure the damn tearing is there... same when you're at a corner in BF3... I'll watch very very closelly how the G-Sync tech develops... Physx is meh for me... but this... this can be great!


----------



## scorpscarx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *armartins*
> 
> Not really the accelero has multi "holes" for the screws... I'd consider it "probably"not "definitely"


I emailed Arctic, they said it would fit.
Quote:


> We are going through some final validation process with the new R-series GPUs. However, the standard Accelero Xtreme will, along with other new and exciting products we are about the introduce soon. We apologized for the delay but please stay tuned.


PS: The context was the 290x specifically.


----------



## skupples

KAzumi's explanation of G-Sync's usefulness sounds just like Mantle's usefulness. Most likely only for lower end user's... But that's yet to be seen with G-Sync. It's expensive, & not being aimed @ the low end monitor market.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> KAzumi's explanation of G-Sync's usefulness sounds just like Mantle's usefulness. Most likely only for lower end user's... But that's yet to be seen with G-Sync. It's expensive, & not being aimed @ the low end monitor market.


In all honesty i think the g-sync sounds a little more gimmicky than mantle.


----------



## nitrubbb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> In all honesty i think the g-sync sounds a little more gimmicky than mantle.


agree


----------



## scyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Could be a driver issue that gets resolved with the release of the 780ti. Not sure anything else will help seeing as how the 780ti will probably have the same amount of rops and memory bus width as the 780/Titan.


They could run the memory at higher frequencies, most people with samsung chips can overclock their memory from 6Ghz to 7Ghz surpassing the memory bandwidth of 290x at stock rather easily. Memory bus isn't the only way to improve bandwidth.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> In all honesty i think the g-sync sounds a little more gimmicky than mantle.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> agree


I don't know.
I'd rather have a gaming experience that has reduced tearing and stuttering than a performance boost that still exhibits those symptoms. Just my personal opinion.
And not trying to poke at Mantle, but we have yet to see Mantle in action. G-sync has.








But G-sync, like Mantle, has a lot of questions that have not been answered.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I don't know.
> I'd rather have a gaming experience that has reduced tearing and stuttering than a performance boost that still exhibits those symptoms. Just my personal opinion.
> And not trying to poke at Mantle, but we have yet to see Mantle in action. G-sync has.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But G-sync, like Mantle, has a lot of questions that have not been answered.


Yeah, we are really just taking a shot in the dark at this stage, but mantle will be implemented into bf4 and that's a pretty good start to get some traction. Plus mantle is going to be free where g sync is not. Not that that really matters other than everyone that has a new amd card will have mantle, where only those that support g sync will have it, meaning less chance of it being successful. I would rather tv manufacturers like samsung just start including their own version of g sync in their monitors. That would be the ideal scenario i would have thought.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> In all honesty i think the g-sync sounds a little more gimmicky than mantle.


Might sound that way but every single site that's had eyes on seems very intrigued

Digital foundry...
Quote:


> Three weeks ago, we described AMD's Mantle API as a "potentially seismic" innovation in the PC space, offering console-level access to PC GPU hardware for increased performance. It's safe to say that as enticing as Mantle sounds, Nvidia has somehow managed to trump it, by offering a new technology that must surely become the new standard for PC displays in the fullness of time, instantly working across all games with no developer input required. When asked directly which was more important - Mantle or G-Sync - Epic's Tim Sweeney and John Carmack both instantly, unequivocally, gave the Nvidia tech the nod


Sounds like the real deal


----------



## lacrossewacker

Just or of curiosity, if the 290x is designed to run at 94C, how much can we actually allow? 105c okay?

Is there any overhead left over? Going with the intel vs amd cpu temp example, just because intels CPU temps are rated up to 105C doesn't mean they release a CPU bursting at the seams right up to 104C.

So if the 290X is comfortable, why must it create a tornado (reference cooler) to keep it going 1 or 2C higher?


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just or of curiosity, if the 290x is designed to run at 94C, how much can we actually allow? 105c okay?
> 
> Is there any overhead left over? Going with the intel vs amd cpu temp example, just because intels CPU temps are rated up to 105C doesn't mean they release a CPU bursting at the seams right up to 104C.
> 
> So if the 290X is comfortable, why must it create a tornado (reference cooler) to keep it going 1 or 2C higher?


You probably do have some headroom, but I think 95C is high enough already. What kind of accuracy can we expect from the onboard thermometer? I reckon you'd only be safe for a couple more degrees, and that's too little to be worth testing.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lacrossewacker*
> 
> Just or of curiosity, if the 290x is designed to run at 94C, how much can we actually allow? 105c okay?
> 
> Is there any overhead left over? Going with the intel vs amd cpu temp example, just because intels CPU temps are rated up to 105C doesn't mean they release a CPU bursting at the seams right up to 104C.
> 
> So if the 290X is comfortable, why must it create a tornado (reference cooler) to keep it going 1 or 2C higher?


290x designed to run at 95c is total BS by AMD and is just damage control.

Any card is fine at 95c really.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> 290x designed to run at 95c is total BS by AMD and is just damage control.
> 
> Any card is fine at 95c really.


This.

My old 3870 ran at 1-110C while playing WoW. And that was for hours at a time and it's still alive to this day.

120C is when cards start having issues.


----------



## BinaryDemon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> This.
> 
> My old 3870 ran at 1-110C while playing WoW. And that was for hours at a time and it's still alive to this day.
> 
> 120C is when cards start having issues.


Just because your 3870 tolerated it, I'm not sure you can lump every GPU into that statement.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Not mine but damn it's nice.......


----------



## modinn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> 
> 
> Not mine but damn it's nice.......


If that submission is valid, then it's only 50 points behind Kingpin's world record Titan bench @ 1800/3900Hz. Link

I think we're about to see some world records fall









Also for those who aren't following the 3 or 4 pros on HWBot who are submitting 290X submissions, here is Smoke's world record for 4-way Crossfire 3DMARK 11. *41531 points* Link


----------



## kingduqc

So it seems to card throttle due to heat even at stock.

This card screams water cool me. I mean, after all you can buy a 290x, a watercooling loop for your gpu + cpu and still got money left to go on a nice dinner with the wife for the cost of a titan


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Are you buying a R9 290x..? Then, of coarse you wouldn't trust that rad...


Sitting in the Fedex sorting facility as we speak, for delivery Monday afternoon.







Happy now?

The cooling situation on the current card is a joke, and people should be calling out AMD for releasing such a pitiful reference cooler, not defending them. Your flagship card shouldn't throttle by nearly 20% out of the box. All the outrage over Kepler's boost and how it throttled, but now it's fine when AMD's card drops down in the 700s?

And like it or not, that's a very small radiator to be dissipating 300W+.


----------



## skupples

I think the goal for g-sync is similar to the goal for Mantle... It's one of the way's you can draw comparison between two things that are 100% in all way's shape & form different from each other. If G-sync is successful you will have AMD wanting to utilize it as well. Another sign of success will be the number of monitor's it get's pumped into. While @ launch the increase in price may be ~100$ per unit, the price could/would likely drop if AMD found a way to utilize it. If mantle is successful it could end up being adapted by the NV game engine designers. You how ever, will not see nvidia produce it's own low level API. They feel too many API's exist as it is already.

Right now it's slated to go into 1080p 1440p & a few other's with Asus being the first supporter. I'm waiting for it to show up in a1440p OC'able monitor, as I would love to play ~+90fps.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *modinn*
> 
> If that submission is valid, then it's only 50 points behind Kingpin's world record Titan bench @ 1800/3900Hz. Link
> 
> I think we're about to see some world records fall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also for those who aren't following the 3 or 4 pros on HWBot who are submitting 290X submissions, here is Smoke's world record for 4-way Crossfire 3DMARK 11. *41531 points* Link


http://www.overclock.net/t/1436635/ocn-gk110-vs-hawaii-bench-off-thread/170#post_21064112

that's where i first seen them


----------



## outofmyheadyo

So I can sell my Gigabyte GTX 780 windforce 3 for 460€ and thats what i can get a new 290x for, does it sound like a good deal?
Im about to order my watercooling loop and its just a matter of swapping the EK GTX 780 block for the 290x block, so i dont have to tolerate the leafblower, gaming will be done on a 2560x1440 @ 60HZ


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> So I can sell my Gigabyte GTX 780 windforce 3 for 460€ and thats what i can get a new 290x for, does it sound like a good deal?
> Im about to order my watercooling loop and its just a matter of swapping the EK GTX 780 block for the 290x block, so i dont have to tolerate the leafblower, gaming will be done on a 2560x1440 @ 60HZ


Aren't you curious about what the 780TI is bringing to the table in the next 2 weeks?


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Indeed I am, and perhaps its a wise decision to sell the card, cause pricedrops are imminent, and hold off the horses on buying the 290x for now, since i still have my double Asus GTX 580 DCII cards in my cabinet i can use meanwhile and see what sort of numbers they pull with 4770k








I didnt know the 780Ti is that close.


----------



## szeged

well the 290x has proven to be a monster card compared to the 780, even when stuck on its leafblower, so im sure itll do great on water.

But keep in mind what 2010rig stated, the 780ti could be a game changer as well.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Aren't you curious about what the 780TI is bringing to the table in the next 2 weeks?


780ti wont bring anything to the table... it will be just a factory overclocked card.
and im sure the 290x should more fun to play with in term of overclocking and at that
resolusion even better.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Indeed I am, and perhaps its a wise decision to sell the card, cause pricedrops are imminent, and hold off the horses on buying the 290x for now, since i still have my double Asus GTX 580 DCII cards in my cabinet i can use meanwhile and see what sort of numbers they pull with 4770k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt know the 780Ti is that close.


Sell the 780 and get some good money while you can.

Then decide if you want to wait for 78ti or not.


----------



## mltms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Aren't you curious about what the 780TI is bringing to the table in the next 2 weeks?


nothing new they will remove titan sticker and call it 780ti with extra 100MHZ and than yaaaaaaaay new gpu powerfull than titan and less mony than $1000

here is the big deal for $449-399


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> So I can sell my Gigabyte GTX 780 windforce 3 for 460€ and thats what i can get a new 290x for, does it sound like a good deal?
> Im about to order my watercooling loop and its just a matter of swapping the EK GTX 780 block for the 290x block, so i dont have to tolerate the leafblower, gaming will be done on a 2560x1440 @ 60HZ


If you are going water 290X will be a good card to have. I feel like we have seen what GTX780/Titan can do. Mantle might be a game changer and even it it fails the card is on pair with Nvidias offerings.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mltms*
> 
> nothing new they will remove titan sticker and call it 780ti with extra 100MHZ and than yaaaaaaaay new gpu powerfull than titan and less mony than $1000
> 
> here is the big deal for $449-399


youre forgetting that it might get custom pcbs, that in itself is something to be very excited for.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

That seems the best battleplan, thanks guys


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> youre forgetting that it might get custom pcbs, that in itself is something to be very excited for.


What will custom pcb do?
make Ln2 runs better.

Custom pcb IMO is the most overrated thing about a video card.

This 7970 I have is custom pcb and trust me.... There is nothing special about all the power circuitry added.


----------



## 2010rig

Even if it's just a slightly faster Titan, we'll see what it brings to the table "price wise".

I'm glad and happy to see the 290X being as fast as it is, and look forward to the Max OC vs Max OC results.

If someone has waited this long for a 290X, why not wait a little longer to see what NVIDIA's response will be?

Also, it's a good idea to sell the 780 now, since price drops are incoming. I wouldn't be surprised if the 780 ends up being $499 - $549 in the next few weeks.

This is why competition is good for all of us, I wasn't planning on upgrading, but I definitely will be this holiday season, after the dust settles.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Even if it's just a slightly faster Titan, we'll see what it brings to the table "price wise".
> 
> I'm glad and happy to see the 290X being as fast as it is, and look forward to the Max OC vs Max OC results.
> 
> If someone has waited this long for a 290X, why not wait a little longer to see what NVIDIA's response will be?
> 
> Also, it's a good idea to sell the 780 now, since price drops are incoming. I wouldn't be surprised if the 780 ends up being $499 - $549 in the next few weeks.
> 
> This is why competition is good for all of us, I wasn't planning on upgrading, but I definitely will be this holiday season, after the dust settles.


Having a 6970 was so painful for me, and you are ok with a 470?


----------



## outofmyheadyo

One more thing, since the 290x is that much more powerhungry then the GTX 780 I hope i wont run into a psu issue since I have no plans to replace it, its a seasonic X-850 gold, but Im pretty sure ill be fine since I havent ever seen the fan even turn on even while benching on 4500mhz 4770K and 1300core gtx 780 it just sits there cold as a brick


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Sitting in the Fedex sorting facility as we speak, for delivery Monday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy now?
> 
> The cooling situation on the current card is a joke, and people should be calling out AMD for releasing such a pitiful reference cooler, not defending them. Your flagship card shouldn't throttle by nearly 20% out of the box. All the outrage over Kepler's boost and how it throttled, but now it's fine when AMD's card drops down in the 700s?
> 
> And like it or not, that's a very small radiator to be dissipating 300W+.


I don't recall any 200+ page threads crapping on Nvidia Boost. My personal opinion has been that we would see what is transpiring now, both GPU vendors are now using adaptive clock solutions. Some good and some bad in that. AMD's new powertune overclocking seems pretty nice, just need replacement cooling to take advantage of it.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> One more thing, since the 290x is that much more powerhungry then the GTX 780 I hope i wont run into a psu issue since I have no plans to replace it, its a seasonic X-850 gold, but Im pretty sure ill be fine since I havent ever seen the fan even turn on even while benching on 4500mhz 4770K and 1300core gtx 780 it just sits there cold as a brick


850W is more than enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> I don't recall any 200+ page threads crapping on Nvidia Boost.


You must not have been paying attention when the 680 and Titan released then. It was widely derided and compared unfavorably to AMD's static clock system.


----------



## wermad

~300w per 290X to be on the safe side. So quad folks, Lepa 1600W ftw


----------



## outofmyheadyo

I think that boost on nvidia is really weird I love my bios that has boost disabled a local master here on OCN called skyn3t is the author


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Having a 6970 was so painful for me, and you are ok with a 470?


Yep, it does great in Adobe Premiere CS6, which is my primary use, and I've yet to come across a game I can't play.


Spoiler: Latest Game I Played


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Yep, it does great in Adobe Premiere CS6, which is my primary use, and I've yet to come across a game I can't play.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Latest Game I Played


Cool. I just don't like being too far behind.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Yep, it does great in Adobe Premiere CS6, which is my primary use, and I've yet to come across a game I can't play.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Latest Game I Played


If my 480 had not passed... i would still be gaming on it, i do not think people who never owned a 400 series Fermi quite understand just how fast they are with a good OC on them


----------



## skupples

Still have my two 480's.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> If my 480 had not passed... i would still be gaming on it, i do not think people who never owned a 400 series Fermi quite understand just how fast they are with a good OC on them


They where faster then AMD in DX11 with Tessalation. In DX9 and DX10 they where not faster. I had HD 5850 and replaced it with GTX470. At the time worst switch ever. I do favor AMD in general and from experience you would have to kill me to own a 290X vs a GTX780 in air.


----------



## tinmann

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> If you are going water 290X will be a good card to have. I feel like we have seen what GTX780/Titan can do. Mantle might be a game changer and even it it fails the card is on pair with Nvidias offerings.


True on all accounts but add the price of a water block and the $550 dollar card turns into an almost $700 dollar card and that is if you already have an existing loop. We all know how expensive custom loops can get and all to get the temps I can get on air.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Still have my two 480's.


I think I might try getting one on ebay to play .


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> 850W is more than enough.
> You must not have been paying attention when the 680 and Titan released then. It was widely derided and compared unfavorably to AMD's static clock system.


Sure there were complaints about lack of tools to OC with Boost on launch, but that's different from bashing Boost itself. Seems that with the 290X many AIBs have also locked down voltages, haven't read into the details to know how restrictive they have been, but the ASUS BIOS is apparently open for business.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> They where faster then AMD in DX11 with Tessalation. In DX9 and DX10 they where not faster. I had HD 5850 and replaced it with GTX470. At the time worst switch ever. I do favor AMD in general and from experience you would have to kill me to own a 290X vs a GTX780 in air.


Well a 480 can push 60 frames or more in many new games on maxed settings.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Cool. I just don't like being too far behind.


I'm ok with it, since I barely game these days, and when I do, I always manage to get at least 60 FPS by tweaking the settings. Last few games I played are Splinter Cell, Tomb Raider, Crysis 3, Hitman...

I've been doing my best to hold out for Maxwell, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> If my 480 had not passed... i would still be gaming on it, i do not think people who never owned a 400 series Fermi quite understand just how fast they are with a good OC on them


Yeah exactly, mine is clocked at 800 / 1800, and since I have the Twin Frozr cooler on it, I've never seen it go above 70C, and it's very quiet.

Since I don't water cool, and wouldn't buy a reference card, I'll wait till non-reference 290X's show up, and compare them to the 780TI which will be out by then.


----------



## wermad

tri-sli 470s were baws back in the day p:

Quad 480s, needed CM 1200w + FSP 450W booster







. Crappy DD blocks barely contained them at 65°c
















Any unboxing from new owners?


----------



## Kuivamaa

Nvidia boost is the opposite,actually. It offers a minimum guaranteed frequency and maximum varies, AMD offers a fixed ceiling, but baseline can vary. I do not like either approach.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> Nvidia boost is the opposite,actually. It offers a minimum guaranteed frequency and maximum varies, AMD offers a fixed ceiling, but baseline can vary. I do not like either approach.


I prefer Nvidia's way. It assures best performance.


----------



## TamaDrumz76

What I want to know is when US retailers (namely Newegg & TigerDirect as they're the only ones I've seen that really had participated in the 24th release) will be making the other launch cards available? Many are still listed as coming soon on NewEgg and Tiger has only put up two 290x's (which sold out rather quickly), they surely carry more than just XFX and MSI. I don't care about the BF4 bundle, but newegg still has cards that say they come with it... when are they going to make it available? After the release of BF4? That would be dumb for people who are looking forward to it...


----------



## amd655

Some unboxings














That is it...............weird.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Well a 480 can push 60 frames or more in many new games on maxed settings.


Yep, playing Batman: Arkham Origins atm with my OC'd 580. Maxed out settings with 2xMSAA, PhysX high, 40 FPS minimum, ~60 average. Game runs smooth as butter. 480 is not far behind, 10-15%


----------



## fateswarm

What's the temp on 95RPM and what's the decibels?


----------



## GTR Mclaren

Its hilarious to see some 770´s in Amazon almost the same price as the 290x

Nvidia is really laughing in the face of all users


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> Its hilarious to see some 770´s in Amazon almost the same price as the 290x
> 
> Nvidia is really laughing in the face of all users


Nah that's what you're doing.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I winder what will happen if you set up the sealing to 80C or even 70C. How low those clocks will drop.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I don't see why either part can't have the decency to just provide a setting that disables boost. There's always a BIOS option to disable Intel's dynamic CPU clocks, so why can't AMD/Nvidia follow their lead and have a hardware switch or the choice of a boostless firmware.


Is why i still prefer anything before AMD 7k NV 6xx cards for overclocking, at least you know you will get the clocks that you pump in regardless of stable or not.


----------



## skupples

I prefer just buying my nv from evga, who rarely care's if you switch bios. Well, unless some how what dies is the eprom which I doubt can really happen w/o some serious surge.


----------



## looniam

found the first mod i saw on twitter:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/393877070117220352%2Fphoto%2F1


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> found the first mod i saw on twitter:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/393877070117220352%2Fphoto%2F1


Lol!


----------



## Roaches

Was it worth to void the warranty than just wait for High airflow brackets to be released


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Was it worth to void the warranty than just wait for High airflow brackets to be released


Always worth it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I winder what will happen if you set up the sealing to 80C or even 70C. How low those clocks will drop.


Not much at all, esp at 80.

From Guru3D:
Quote:


> Radeon R9 290X BioShock Hitman Tomb Raider 3DMark FireStrike DBA
> Temp target 95C 62 57 87 9808 43
> Temp target 80C 61 56 86 9744 47
> Temp target 70C 59 54 84 9733 48


Keep in mind that 80C is the target for the GK110 cards.

The card does get a bit loud, however.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> Not much at all, esp at 80.
> 
> From Guru3D:
> Keep in mind that 80C is the target for the GK110 cards.
> 
> The card does get a bit loud, however.


So its not that bad then.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> Not much at all, esp at 80.
> 
> From Guru3D:
> Keep in mind that 80C is the target for the GK110 cards.
> 
> The card does get a bit loud, however.
> 
> 
> 
> So its not that bad then.
Click to expand...

this whole thing is because the cooler is so loud. it can cool the gpu acceptably (still could be better on that end), but it'll make a ton of noise doing it. that's why the profiles are based on max fan speeds. at the end of the day it really comes down to what most people have been saying this whole time, and that is AMD needs to make a better reference cooler. something that can get the same or better results without the excessive noise this one creates.


----------



## skupples

XD I get scared when my gpu's hit 50. Mostly irrational.


----------



## wolfej

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> I wish these cards were voltage unlocked, didn't think AMD was going to go down that rout


From what I've heard they're not voltage locked. The software that is used to modify voltage just isn't working with the 290x's. AMD has never allowed you to edit voltage in CCC.


----------



## fleetfeather

They aren't voltage locked, however there is a limitation with the firmware atm which wont allow voltage increases unless you flash the Asus 290X bios


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> They aren't voltage locked, however there is a limitation with the firmware atm which wont allow voltage increases unless you flash the Asus 290X bios


I wouldn't really say the firmware is the problem. It is just that AB doesn't support increasing the volts currently. The reason people flash the bios currently is because there is no other way to increase the voltage. Need to wait for AB updates.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wolfej*
> 
> From what I've heard they're not voltage locked. The software that is used to modify voltage just isn't working with the 290x's. AMD has never allowed you to edit voltage in CCC.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> I wouldn't really say the firmware is the problem. It is just that AB doesn't support increasing the volts currently. The reason people flash the bios currently is because there is no other way to increase the voltage. Need to wait for AB updates.


Oh glad to hear it. I noticed the AB screens and thought voltage was locked.


----------



## Arm3nian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Oh glad to hear it. I noticed the AB screens and thought voltage was locked.


AB just doesn't overall support voltage increases yet for the 290x. Even if you flash it with the asus or another bios, it doesn't work. However, Asus GPU tweak works IF you flash the bios. My recommendation would be to wait until software supports it without flashing. Then, if you need more volts, flash it.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> AB just doesn't overall support voltage increases yet for the 290x. Even if you flash it with the asus or another bios, it doesn't work. However, *Asus GPU tweak works IF you flash the bios.* My recommendation would be to wait until software supports it without flashing. Then, if you need more volts, flash it.


And So far the card looks like it overclocks pretty good with more voltage considering the results we got from people overclocking with asus gpu tweak.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arm3nian*
> 
> AB just doesn't overall support voltage increases yet for the 290x. Even if you flash it with the asus or another bios, it doesn't work. However, Asus GPU tweak works IF you flash the bios. My recommendation would be to wait until software supports it without flashing. Then, if you need more volts, flash it.


No worries waiting for custom versions as i will use mine on air until my next rig/loop is finished and i add another.


----------



## scorpscarx

Has anyone or any review shown the wattage while overclocked yet?

From the tpu review uber mode is 315W, so I'm guessing like 350W.


----------



## Rtrbtn

How difficult would it be to mount an h80 on this?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> How difficult would it be to mount an h80 on this?


Should be pretty straightforward if you have one of the mod brackets (like DWood's or Sigma Cool). I'm planning on mounting mine with a DWood on Monday.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> It would rather defeat the purpose. You'd either have to cannibalise G-sync monitors for the parts, or somehow acquire what you need to create the mod. Be a rather large pain in the rear to modify screens. And honestly, if you are playing an older game, you likely don't have to worry about screen tearing anyways.


Isn't the launch right now mainly for people to mod it? Right now it's mainly for that ASUS 144Hz ones but I'm sure once its out people will get it on other screens.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> KAzumi's explanation of G-Sync's usefulness sounds just like Mantle's usefulness. Most likely only for lower end user's... But that's yet to be seen with G-Sync. It's expensive, & not being aimed @ the low end monitor market.


Just wait until someone mods it into a 1440p PLS screen and to work with AMD cards, you'd see the benefits of both Mantle and G-Sync then.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *modinn*
> 
> If that submission is valid, then it's only 50 points behind Kingpin's world record Titan bench @ 1800/3900Hz. Link


Hey guys, it won't beat an OCed Titan.

Right? Right?!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> What will custom pcb do?
> make Ln2 runs better.
> 
> Custom pcb IMO is the most overrated thing about a video card.
> 
> This 7970 I have is custom pcb and trust me.... There is nothing special about all the power circuitry added.


Not really, they consistently clock higher on average even on air. If yours clocks bad it's just the silicon lottery.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> If my 480 had not passed... i would still be gaming on it, i do not think people who never owned a 400 series Fermi quite understand just how fast they are with a good OC on them


My 470 at 830Mhz puts the HD7850 I've benched on to shame. A lot of people don't realize how slow a GPU actually takes to completely become useless..even a HD5870 can pull playable FPS on Tomb Raider at decent settings today.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Does anyone know whats that memoryinfo utility on the screen and can you use it on other cards ?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know whats that memoryinfo utility on the screen and can you use it on other cards ?


i believe its only for those cards, i tried to test it on a titan, doesnt work. good thing 99% of titans come with samsung lol.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

also what was that 1466 1.25v gpu cooling on the 290x ? Cause if its possible to run 1.25v on water its pretty darn crazy


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> also what was that 1466 1.25v gpu cooling on the 290x ? Cause if its possible to run 1.25v on water its pretty darn crazy


i think that was a LN2 run.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> also what was that 1466 1.25v gpu cooling on the 290x ? Cause if its possible to run 1.25v on water its pretty darn crazy


LN2 and it was with full hardware voltmods (probably shammy who modded the cards). with hard mods gpu tweak obviously isn't showing the actual voltage.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> also what was that 1466 1.25v gpu cooling on the 290x ? Cause if its possible to run 1.25v on water its pretty darn crazy


My 7950 comes stock at around 1.25 i believe. 58% asic quality.
The 290x is 1.25v stock iirc

Should go upto 1.4v

1.4v on water isn't hard at all. I run my 7950 @ 1.3v and doesn't pass 58c while gaming.


----------



## cowie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rtrbtn*
> 
> How difficult would it be to mount an h80 on this?


Not hard i have to use my spacer but i will get a h70 on first thing still dont think 1.40v will be that comfortable but never know.


----------



## Hattifnatten

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> XD I get scared when my gpu's hit 50. Mostly irrational.


My top card is idling at 60


----------



## Biorganic

Any watercooled OCN results yet? Where is stay puft with his EK blocks?


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biorganic*
> 
> Any watercooled OCN results yet? Where is stay puft with his EK blocks?


Most won't be getting the blocks until Tuesday at the earliest unless you live in the north east USA or close to an ek reseller elsewhere (frozencpu is in new York for instance).


----------



## Biorganic

gotcha. I am just impatient, like everyone else, to see the results under water. Hoping for awesome sauce


----------



## Kazumi

I'm just happy the thread has slowed down a fair amount. Reading 600+ posts after sleeping for a couple hours was rather insane. 30-50 Not so bad during 9-10am coffee hour before I do real work, at work


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Biorganic*
> 
> gotcha. I am just impatient, like everyone else, to see the results under water. Hoping for awesome sauce


Water results will be nice, but seeing nonreference board results is my biggest interest; considering those are the GPUs that most of OCN would buy up for years to come


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> Most won't be getting the blocks until Tuesday at the earliest unless you live in the north east USA or close to an ek reseller elsewhere (frozencpu is in new York for instance).


Im in nebraska and my ek block from frozencpu is coming in tomorrow (monday). Its been sitting in the nearby sorting facility since yesterday


----------



## jdm317

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Im in nebraska and my ek block from frozencpu is coming in tomorrow (monday). Its been sitting in the nearby sorting facility since yesterday


I hate that feeling. I just want to call them up and say: "Hey can you meet me up there and just get it for me?"


----------



## scorpscarx

So the rumor(I can't remember where I read this) was that Newegg is restocking tomorrow?


----------



## moeqawama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpscarx*
> 
> So the rumor(I can't remember where I read this) was that Newegg is restocking tomorrow?


If they are, they'll be on sale around 2 AM; that's when the R9 290X went on sale. Trust me, I kept my eye on it until I bought it lol


----------



## moeqawama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moeqawama*
> 
> If they are, they'll be on sale around 2 AM; that's when the R9 290X went on sale. Trust me, I kept my eye on it until I bought it lol


That's eastern 2 AM, sorry should have put that in first post


----------



## LancerVI

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but Koolance announced their blocks for the 290X on their website on Friday, the 25th. No pics up yet, but that's who I'm waiting for. Their blocks are a bit slow to come out, but are usually well worth the wait in performance.

It'll be nice to see what these cards can really do once we get temps eliminated as the limiting factor.


----------



## scorpscarx

Thanks for the insight but that basically means that they already have stock and are just waiting for Monday to officially arrive. I bet it's later in the day, but don't worry, I'll be staying up anyway







.


----------



## skupples

The best gpu waterblock's are the one's that actually include active VRM cooling. This is one of the reasons people have flocked to EK as of recent. All of them keep the chip it's self around the same temp. What separate's the boy blocks from the man blocks are the ones with active VRM cooling.


----------



## Asterra

So now that I have toyed around with my R9 290X in the one game I specifically purchased it for (Fallout New Vegas), I thought I'd offer some of my observations.

1) At 1080p, I can force 4xEQ supersampled AA, 16xAF and generally not dip below 60fps all that often (I'll probably drop it to 4x non-EQ just to guarantee it).

2) Ambient occlusion is currently impossible because CCC doesn't enable it, and RadeonPro (which does enable it) has a bug which prevents one from picking any AA Mode besides MSAA (which means it is currently not worth using).

3) The moment I installed drivers (any of the following: 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta5, 13.11beta6), all of my mouse pointer icons quadrupled in size. An AMD-specific bug which has been identified in the past for other cards. May be related to the heat of the GPU (somehow). _No_ adequate solution.

4) I have used only Quiet Mode. Despite this, the GPU began throttling (in Fallout New Vegas). It was obvious, because I started getting tearing, which was otherwise impossible, plus a great deal of frame drops and stutter. And the screen itself would even go black for a split second. Clearly, throttling is something to be 100% avoided when gaming. In CCC I lowered the target temp to 94C and raised the fan cap and, so far, have not seen a repeat. Then again, I also turned on the fan in the room.

In short, with this card I cannot have both supersampling and ambient occlusion, heat is an issue which, right out of the box without any tinkering, must be specifically addressed, and it has given me a mouse pointer problem that I will never be happy with. It is difficult to recommend this card to others. If I'm not mistaken, an overclocked 780 could have given me the same performance without these three dealbreakers.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> The best gpu waterblock's are the one's that actually include active VRM cooling. This is one of the reasons people have flocked to EK as of recent. All of them keep the chip it's self around the same temp. What separate's the boy blocks from the man blocks are the ones with active VRM cooling.


This is definitely something to keep in mind. Even if a waterblock looks like its full coverage, you need to read reviews or see it torn down to really know whats being cooled. Here is a good graph of load VRM temps from a titan/780 block roundup. On a stock titan, the VRMs were almost 30*C cooler on the EK block than the Swiftech/EVGA. Imagine how hot the swiftech/evga vrms get onces you start overclocking!


----------



## evensen007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> So now that I have toyed around with my R9 290X in the one game I specifically purchased it for (Fallout New Vegas), I thought I'd offer some of my observations.
> 
> 1) At 1080p, I can force 4xEQ supersampled AA, 16xAF and generally not dip below 60fps all that often (I'll probably drop it to 4x non-EQ just to guarantee it).
> 
> 2) Ambient occlusion is currently impossible because CCC doesn't enable it, and RadeonPro (which does enable it) has a bug which prevents one from picking any AA Mode besides MSAA (which means it is currently not worth using).
> 
> 3) The moment I installed drivers (any of the following: 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta5, 13.11beta6), all of my mouse pointer icons quadrupled in size. An AMD-specific bug which has been identified in the past for other cards. May be related to the heat of the GPU (somehow). _No_ adequate solution.
> 
> 4) I have used only Quiet Mode. Despite this, the GPU began throttling (in Fallout New Vegas). It was obvious, because I started getting tearing, which was otherwise impossible, plus a great deal of frame drops and stutter. And the screen itself would even go black for a split second. Clearly, throttling is something to be 100% avoided when gaming. In CCC I lowered the target temp to 94C and raised the fan cap and, so far, have not seen a repeat. Then again, I also turned on the fan in the room.
> 
> In short, with this card I cannot have both supersampling and ambient occlusion, heat is an issue which, right out of the box without any tinkering, must be specifically addressed, and it has given me a mouse pointer problem that I will never be happy with. It is difficult to recommend this card to others. If I'm not mistaken, an overclocked 780 could have given me the same performance without these three dealbreakers.


You specifically bought a 290x for FAllout 3, a 3 year old game that will run on a 5 year old GPU? Also, you're having heat, throttling, and bug issues that no one else is reporting. Swap the card maybe?


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> This is definitely something to keep in mind. Even if a waterblock looks like its full coverage, you need to read reviews or see it torn down to really know whats being cooled. Here is a good graph of load VRM temps from a titan/780 block roundup. On a stock titan, the VRMs were almost 30*C cooler on the EK block than the Swiftech/EVGA. Imagine how hot the swiftech/evga vrms get onces you start overclocking!


I am certainly glad you guys brought this up. Good to know for when/If I get a 290X. Want to do custom loop and having the GPU in it would help a lot. Thanks.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evensen007*
> 
> You specifically bought a 290x for FAllout 3, a 3 year old game that will run on a 5 year old GPU?


It's actually older than that. And read closely: I'm not exactly able to max out everything even with this card. Nor was I expecting to. It may "run on a 5 year old GPU" but it won't do so with the settings I'm currently employing.
Quote:


> Also, you're having heat, throttling, and bug issues that no one else is reporting. Swap the card maybe?


Like almost everyone who currently owns this card, I bought mine from Newegg. This isn't Amazon we're talking about. I can't just strike up an Amazon chat, explain the situation, and have a replacement card shipped second-day before I've even sent my current one back. Newegg will institute huge delays which make your suggestion as impractical as you surely must have known it was. Imagine if I had been talking about BF4. You'd be saying put BF4 on hold for three weeks while Newegg sorts the problem out at their pace. The lack of stock is merely icing on this particular cake. ;p Regardless, _throttling_ is not a problem which "no one else is reporting". It's well documented even in this thread. The mouse pointer problem encountered by another fellow was not solved when he swapped cards. And the ambient occlusion issue is one which places AMD owners at the mercy of either AMD or the developer of a third party app meant to replace CCC, which in this case means we are out of luck.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> It's actually older than that. And read closely: I'm not exactly able to max out everything even with this card. Nor was I expecting to. It may "run on a 5 year old GPU" but it won't do so with the settings I'm currently employing.
> Like almost everyone who currently owns this card, I bought mine from Newegg. This isn't Amazon we're talking about. I can't just strike up an Amazon chat, explain the situation, and have a replacement card shipped second-day before I've even sent my current one back. Newegg will institute huge delays which make your suggestion as impractical as you surely must have known it was. Imagine if I had been talking about BF4. You'd be saying put BF4 on hold for three weeks while Newegg sorts the problem out at their pace. The lack of stock is merely icing on this particular cake. ;p


Newegg is easier then Amazon. IMO
Personally everytime I returned something to amazon it was a pain.

You don't even need a chat or email for a replacement on newegg. Just submit the replacement RMA form.


----------



## DzillaXx

Double post


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> It's actually older than that. And read closely: I'm not exactly able to max out everything even with this card. Nor was I expecting to. It may "run on a 5 year old GPU" but it won't do so with the settings I'm currently employing.
> Like almost everyone who currently owns this card, I bought mine from Newegg. This isn't Amazon we're talking about. I can't just strike up an Amazon chat, explain the situation, and have a replacement card shipped second-day before I've even sent my current one back. Newegg will institute huge delays which make your suggestion as impractical as you surely must have known it was. Imagine if I had been talking about BF4. You'd be saying put BF4 on hold for three weeks while Newegg sorts the problem out at their pace. The lack of stock is merely icing on this particular cake. ;p


Perhaps you could confer with other owners on how they set up their 290Xs out of the box. I generally use Heaven or Kombuster and start at stock clocks and check voltages and temps/fan speed to see where they are at. If temp is the first issue, I start playing with fan profiles and see how that helps. Then move on to clocking. Although in your case I would stick to finding that stock sweet spot. And when you go to play your game start with low settings and see how it runs. Taking each step up slowly. Tech you shouldn't need CCC for MSAA/SSAA and the like. Use the game engine for that at first. I use Radeonpro just for the chance to use the EQ settings in SSAA, but even then in only one game right now and that is SKYRIM. Keep things simple. If you have too many variables you will have a hard time getting to work flawlessly if it can.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Perhaps you could confer with other owners on how they set up their 290Xs out of the box. I generally use Heaven or Kombuster and start at stock clocks and check voltages and temps/fan speed to see where they are at. If temp is the first issue, I start playing with fan profiles and see how that helps. Then move on to clocking.


Actually I haven't overclocked one smidge, nor was I really intending to (nor do I, generally; not even the 980X I'm using), nor is it really an option for this card without making a warranty-killing modification. The only change I made was to boost the fan usage because out of the box, it literally demanded this change.
Quote:


> And when you go to play your game start with low settings and see how it runs.


It's funny you should suggest this. Before I realized that RadeonPro was failing to accept my adjustments to the AA Mode (defaulting to MSAA), I was able to bump everything else up to the max and still get a solid 60fps. I was impressed. ;p At the same time, though, I was panicking because trees and such were not being filtered.
Quote:


> Tech you shouldn't need CCC for MSAA/SSAA and the like. Use the game engine for that at first.


Well, two things. First, Fallout New Vegas does not enable supersampling. It has something it calls "transparent multisampling" which is what Nvidia calls their supersampling, and unfortunately what this effect actually does is render transparent textures as a grid mosaic that simulates transparency but is in fact exceedingly ugly and better left off. In short, the game can't do it, so it needs to be forced. Second, I discovered that turning the AA off in the game and letting RadeonPro (or CCC) force it instead gives almost twice the performance. (This despite everything I've read suggesting that the opposite should be the case.)


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> Actually I haven't overclocked one smidge, nor was I really intending to (nor do I, generally; not even the 980X I'm using), nor is it really an option for this card without making a warranty-killing modification. The only change I made was to boost the fan usage because out of the box, it literally demanded this change.
> It's funny you should suggest this. Before I realized that RadeonPro was failing to accept my adjustments to the AA Mode (defaulting to MSAA), I was able to bump everything else up to the max and still get a solid 60fps. I was impressed. ;p At the same time, though, I was panicking because trees and such were not being filtered.
> Well, two things. First, Fallout New Vegas does not enable supersampling. It has something it calls "transparent multisampling" which is what Nvidia calls their supersampling, and unfortunately what this effect actually does is render transparent textures as a grid mosaic that simulates transparency but is in fact exceedingly ugly and better left off. In short, the game can't do it, so it needs to be forced. Second, I discovered that turning the AA off in the game and letting RadeonPro (or CCC) force it instead gives almost twice the performance. (This despite everything I've read suggesting that the opposite should be the case.)


How about downsampling with CRU, just set it up for myself. 1440p on my 1080p monitor, pretty much SSAA 2x. Should atleast let you use RadeonPro.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So now that I have toyed around with my R9 290X in the one game I specifically purchased it for (Fallout New Vegas), I thought I'd offer some of my observations.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 3) The moment I installed drivers (any of the following: 13.10, 13.11beta1, 13.11beta5, 13.11beta6), all of my mouse pointer icons quadrupled in size. An AMD-specific bug which has been identified in the past for other cards. May be related to the heat of the GPU (somehow). _No_ adequate solution.
> 
> 4) I have used only Quiet Mode. Despite this, the GPU began throttling (in Fallout New Vegas). It was obvious, because I started getting tearing, which was otherwise impossible, plus a great deal of frame drops and stutter. And the screen itself would even go black for a split second. Clearly, throttling is something to be 100% avoided when gaming. In CCC I lowered the target temp to 94C and raised the fan cap and, so far, have not seen a repeat. Then again, I also turned on the fan in the room.
> 
> In short, with this card I cannot have both supersampling and ambient occlusion, heat is an issue which, right out of the box without any tinkering, must be specifically addressed, and it has given me a mouse pointer problem that I will never be happy with. It is difficult to recommend this card to others. If I'm not mistaken, an overclocked 780 could have given me the same performance without these three dealbreakers.


I tried to replicate your issues with Fallout NV. Granted, I only ran the game briefly, made some transitions in Vegas and generally ran around outdoors for about 15 minutes. Also, I use the 4GB NVSE shim to start the game, and I simply keep my card in Uber, as I have a quiet case with excellent ventilation (8 fans, some of them push/pull, outside of the GPU). In that time, my core clock never dropped below 1000, my GPU temp never went above 87 degrees, and my fan speed maximum was 27%.

This is not a demanding game, even with CCC supersampling enabled. My mouse pointers were fine (driver kit is beta 6), so I'd say you either have a bum card, a dirty driver install, or insufficient case cooling.


----------



## Asterra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> This is not a demanding game, even with CCC supersampling enabled. My mouse pointers were fine (driver kit is beta 6), so I'd say you either have a bum card, a dirty driver install, or insufficient case cooling.


It's not an install issue. Same deal happens on my "clean install" drive that I keep around for these occasions. Case cooling? The case is still open at this time. Bum card? It happens, doesn't it. But I cannot help but feel that when the "target" temperature of a given card is also the maximum temperature, blaming overheating issues on a possible manufacturing defect sounds like making excuses.


----------



## infranoia

I understand your frustration. I don't know what you're doing in-game, but at 1440p my 290x didn't break a sweat. Like I said, it didn't go above 87, so the target temperature was irrelevant for this particular game. It just never gets up there. I think to hit max temp I'd have to overclock it above 1 GHz.

Other games, yeah, I can hear the fan spin up to 50%, but the fan just idles all through my Fallout NV runs so far.

I don't know. I seem to be having a remarkably different experience with this card than most others. Maybe once I start overclocking I'll run into trouble and have something interesting to post.









Oh, and I should add-- an open case is not a well-ventilated case. You've got to have positive airflow. The GPU fan is going to work harder in a passive environment like an open case or bench. In my case I've got 4 120mm fans in push-pull blowing directly onto the card, so that's gotta help.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

So i managed to sell my gtx 780, now its a challenge to hold off on buying the 290x until the 780ti arrives to see what price point it arrives at and what performance does it offer, either way the one I end up buying ends up under water, how is the coil whine on the 290x cards ? Whining cards kind of defeat the purpose of having a quiet watercooling loop on em, and ruin the overall experience, atleast thats how it is for me


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> So i managed to sell my gtx 780, now its a challenge to hold off on buying the 290x until the 780ti arrives to see what price point it arrives at and what performance does it offer


Good thinking. I approve. I would assume the 780 Ti will be still priced at something like $799 since NV rarely drops prices and its purpose appeared to not be pure money making in the short term but mainly to destroy AMD's hyping lately, but you can never be sure, so if you can wait without problem it seems like a good strat.


----------



## Someguy316

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asterra*
> 
> 2) Ambient occlusion is currently impossible because CCC doesn't enable it, and RadeonPro (which does enable it) has a bug which prevents one from picking any AA Mode besides MSAA (which means it is currently not worth using).


I thought Fallout New Vegas didn't have an ambient occlussion option. I know that forcing supersampling through CCC can cause rendering issues in some games.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Good thinking. I approve. I would assume the 780 Ti will be still priced at something like $799 since NV rarely drops prices and its purpose appeared to not be pure money making in the short term but mainly to destroy AMD's hyping lately, but you can never be sure, so if you can wait without problem it seems like a good strat.


Ill just use my pair of ASUS GTX 580 DC II cards in the meantime


----------



## Heinz68

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Good thinking. I approve. I would assume the 780 Ti will be still priced at something like $799 since NV rarely drops prices and its purpose appeared to not be pure money making in the short term but mainly to destroy AMD's hyping lately, but you can never be sure, so if you can wait without problem it seems like a good strat.


_'AMD's hyping'_. LOL


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Good thinking. I approve. I would assume the 780 Ti will be still priced at something like $799 since NV rarely drops prices and its purpose appeared to not be pure money making in the short term but mainly to destroy AMD's hyping lately, but you can never be sure, so if you can wait without problem it seems like a good strat.


780Ti confirmed @ 699$, 780 falling to 499$. & 770 @ 330$ Not sure on Ti's spec's though. An educated guess is either 2,496 cores @ 3gb or 3gb TITAN.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/geforce_gtx_780_ti_available_november_7th_for_699_lower_780_price.html

(ALL USD)


----------



## fateswarm

I even saw a 780 at 440 euros. Holy Spaghetti Monster!


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I even saw a 780 at 440 euros. Holy Spaghetti Monster!


780 is going to drop to 499$ 1st week of november when the 700$ Ti drops.(going to bet on a 3gb titan @ that price)


----------



## sticks435

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 780 is going to drop to 499$ 1st week of november when the 700$ Ti drops.(going to bet on a 3gb titan @ that price)


Actually newegg has the price drops on the 780's already, at least for EVGA models. I would assume the rest will follow this week.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 780 is going to drop to 499$ 1st week of november when the 700$ Ti drops.(going to bet on a 3gb titan @ that price)


There's rumor of 6GB makes.


----------



## Truedeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> There's rumor of 6GB makes.


Gpus that have more memory than my pc.
Time for an upgrade.


----------



## fateswarm

Wait, it's not a rumor anymore, "the leaker had a 6GB card"

http://videocardz.com/47287/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-ti-3dmark-score-exposed

Or I guess not totally rumor.


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Truedeal*
> 
> Gpus that have more memory than my pc.
> Time for an upgrade.


Yes please do!

OT: but each time I see that drake pic, I can't help but die!


----------



## Heinz68

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 780 is going to drop to 499$ 1st week of november when the 700$ Ti drops.(going to bet on a 3gb titan @ that price)


780 prices are already coming down and GTX 780 Ti for $700 has to be better than Titan so it might have 6GB as per some rumors.

Anyway I'm buying two R9 290X for crossfire, time to say thank you AMD for bringing to prices down.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Wait, it's not a rumor anymore, "the leaker had a 6GB card"
> 
> http://videocardz.com/47287/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-ti-3dmark-score-exposed
> 
> Or I guess not totally rumor.


It's still a rumor until it's official. 700$ titan rebrand would be a surprise, but anything short of that would be a let down. either way, i'm sure AMD fan boy's will show up in titan thread with the usual "AHAHAH nv screwed you" chatter.

2496 6gb? Hrrmm... We can all agree @ this point that it WONT be 2880 3gb me thinks.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's still a rumor until it's official. 700$ titan rebrand would be a surprise, but anything sort of that would be a let down. either way, i'm sure AMD fan boy's will show up in titan thread with the usual "AHAHAH nv screwed you" chatter.
> 
> 2496 6gb? Hrrmm... We can all agree @ this point that it WONT be 2880 3gb me thinks.


I guess everyone would be screwed by 20nm GPUs next year with that logic.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I guess everyone would be screwed by 20nm GPUs next year with that logic.


I always assume people who make these statements are either new to the scene, or utterly ignorant. No one forced me to spend 3,000$ on gpu's. In fact I was in the "take my money" line during all the pre-hype. I'm already saving for three of the 6,144 core 20nm Titan 2.0's.... EVEN IF it's 100% locked down with zero OC potential.


----------



## Heinz68

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's still a rumor until it's official. 700$ titan rebrand would be a surprise, but anything short of that would be a let down. either way, i'm sure AMD fan boy's will show up in titan thread with the usual "AHAHAH nv screwed you" chatter.
> 
> 2496 6gb? Hrrmm... We can all agree @ this point that it WONT be 2880 3gb me thinks.


Nvidia did not screw anybody, some people just have way too much money







so Nvidia help them to spend some so they all end up happy.
Anyway from what I read on the net most people are very happy, no more $1000 single GPU video cards and that goes same for fanboys on both site or for some people who can remain neutral.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's still a rumor until it's official. 700$ titan rebrand would be a surprise, but anything short of that would be a let down. either way, i'm sure AMD fan boy's will show up in titan thread with the usual "AHAHAH nv screwed you" chatter.
> 
> 2496 6gb? Hrrmm... We can all agree @ this point that it WONT be 2880 3gb me thinks.


no consumer 2880 cards, makes more money by selling them as Quadro K6000s for $5,000 a piece, considering the difficulty of getting a functioning full GK110 die to begin with.


----------



## szeged

2688 core card with custom pcb is fine with me, 2880 core is just wishful thinking


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Truedeal*
> 
> Gpus that have more memory than my pc.
> Time for an upgrade.


How can you live on 4GB?! There's three things I hate about my laptop (Southbound Pachyderm) it's the 4GB RAM, 120GB SSD and HD545v.
If the GPU could only play Civ at 1080p I'd merely upgrade the RAM and SSD, but...well, 20fps isn't playing Civ V for me.









(For reference, I'm only on a few websites in Chrome at the moment and it's still at >2.5GB usage)


----------



## Truedeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> How can you live on 4GB?! There's three things I hate about my laptop (Southbound Pachyderm) it's the 4GB RAM, 120GB SSD and HD545v.
> If the GPU could only play Civ at 1080p I'd merely upgrade the RAM and SSD, but...well, 20fps isn't playing Civ V for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (For reference, I'm only on a few websites in Chrome at the moment and it's still at >2.5GB usage)


Well Ive had it for so long, Its really not so bad.

I will get 8GB ddr2 or 3 soon enough.
You see, Im not really feeling the urge to get it right now because everything runs like I want it to.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heinz68*
> 
> Nvidia did not screw anybody, some people just have way too much money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so Nvidia help them to spend some so they all end up happy.
> Anyway from what I read on the net most people are very happy, no more $1000 single GPU video cards and that goes same for fanboys on both site or for some people who can remain neutral.


=P I'm already in the act of saving for the next 1,000$ NVidia GPU. hopefully it's a 6,000 core 20nm badass!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> no consumer 2880 cards, makes more money by selling them as Quadro K6000s for $5,000 a piece, considering the difficulty of getting a functioning full GK110 die to begin with.


Couldn't agree more... It seems 2496 is just too little too late, even if it's 6gb... It's becoming more likely that it will be a Titan rebrand with slightly higher stock bios clock's. If that's the case, 700$ Titan is badass! Many people with multi-display are already breaking the 3gb barrier. This will only get worse as more and more truly next gen game's roll off the line. Hell, I even breach 3gb every now and then on 1080p surround. Serious Sam 3 BFE does it pretty regularly.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> =P I'm already in the act of saving for the next 1,000$ NVidia GPU. hopefully it's a 6,000 core 20nm badass!


I seriously doubt Nvidia will use the $1000 price point again, but if they do it will be hilarious indeed.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> I seriously doubt Nvidia will use the $1000 price point again, but if they do it will be hilarious indeed.
> I am saving for the next $1000 AMD CPU, hopefully it is a 6Ghz kicka**!


email is a great way to see what people said before editing....

Isn't opteron AMD's only high priced unit?(I fail @ reading).. Second, Why do you doubt Nvidia would push another 1,000$ GPU & why would it be hilarious? I don't think you realize how successful Titan has been... It may be "Lawls" to you, but Nvidia had to keep stamping out titans due to overwhelming demand. They originally only planned to print out ~19,000 units. I 100% expect nvidia to charge 1,000$ OR MORE if they push a 6,000 core 20nm chip in 2014. Anyone who doesn't is fooling them selves. Nvidia has full rein to do so when it takes AMD two years to put out a new GPU.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> email is a great way to see what people said before editing....
> 
> The only 1,000$ enthusiast gpu coming out of aMD would be a dual 290X... Second, Why do you doubt Nvidia would push another 1,000$ GPU & why would it be hilarious? I don't think you realize how successful Titan has been... It may be "Lawls" to you, but Nvidia had to keep stamping out titans due to overwhelming demand. They originally only planned to print out ~19,000 units. I 100% expect nvidia to charge 1,000$ if they push a 6,000 core 20nm chip in 2014. Anyone who doesn't is fooling them selves. Nvidia has full rein to do so when it takes AMD two years to put out a new GPU.


I highly doubt we'll see 6000 20nm next year. I think it was 2010rig or fateswarm (and we know how pro-Nvidia they are) saying 20nm could have 90% more shaders than 28nm, even they didn't claim Maxwell could get over 100% more.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Isn't opteron AMD's only high priced unit?(I fail @ reading) ....... *Nvidia has full rein to do* so when it takes AMD two years to put out a new GPU.


AMD tried to sale the 5Ghz FX-9590/Centurion as a premium priced CPU before forced to take a deep price cut, but I guess you forgot about that?

If Nvidia was able to put out another $1000 card and sale it like the Titan, it will be hilarious that AMD sees that happen twice in the GPU department, combined with Intel's stream of $1000 CPUs.


----------



## BigMack70

This isn't really directed at anyone in particular, but just remember Nvidia fanboys: when Nvidia has no competition and manages to get away with launching an absurdly overpriced card, it is not AMD who loses, but YOU (or more specifically, your wallet).

It isn't a good thing to have one company meaningfully ahead of the other for any length of time at all.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> =P I'm already in the act of saving for the next 1,000$ NVidia GPU. hopefully it's a 6,000 core 20nm badass!
> Couldn't agree more... It seems 2496 is just too little too late, even if it's 6gb... It's becoming more likely that it will be a Titan rebrand with slightly higher stock bios clock's. If that's the case, 700$ Titan is badass! Many people with multi-display are already breaking the 3gb barrier. This will only get worse as more and more truly next gen game's roll off the line. Hell, I even breach 3gb every now and then on 1080p surround. Serious Sam 3 BFE does it pretty regularly.


i do see 5gb Vram taken up in Batman AO.... although i do not know if that's the needed amount or allocated. How does one know if its needed or merely allocated?

4MSAA does 2600MB vram, 8MSAA does 3600 MB vram or more on 1440p.


----------



## BigMack70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> i do see 5gb Vram taken up in Batman AO.... although i do not know if that's the needed amount or allocated. How does one know if its needed or merely allocated?
> 
> 4MSAA does 2600MB vram, 8MSAA does 3600 MB vram or more on 1440p.


?? I'm seeing just around 2GB vram use with 8xMSAA and everything maxed on my 780s at 1440p

Haven't gotten very far into the game, though...


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> This isn't really directed at anyone in particular, but just remember Nvidia fanboys: when Nvidia has no competition and manages to get away with launching an absurdly overpriced card, it is not AMD who loses, but YOU (or more specifically, your wallet).
> 
> It isn't a good thing to have one company meaningfully ahead of the other for any length of time at all.


I'll be the first to admit a few things. I prefer Nvidia, and I love competition. I've ordered a 290X already, even if I don't find it my "prefered" GPU maker I'm happy to show my support to them. I've been a long fan of AMD, but they've just gone such a great job of shooting themselves in the foot year after year. But with this release of the R9's it's certainly looking promising.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> ?? I'm seeing just around 2GB vram use with 8xMSAA and everything maxed on my 780s at 1440p
> 
> Haven't gotten very far into the game, though...





5.6gb.... WAT.

but really, nothing compares to 99 Levels to Hell's Vram usage...



Modded Skyrim? bah, this is the real VRAM hog.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> This isn't really directed at anyone in particular, but just remember Nvidia fanboys: when Nvidia has no competition and manages to get away with launching an absurdly overpriced card, it is not AMD who loses, but YOU (or more specifically, your wallet).
> 
> It isn't a good thing to have one company meaningfully ahead of the other for any length of time at all.


Shame on you Nvidia for not having competition!

Clearly none of this is AMD's fault. NONE.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> This isn't really directed at anyone in particular, but just remember Nvidia fanboys: when Nvidia has no competition and manages to get away with launching an absurdly overpriced card, it is not AMD who loses, but YOU (or more specifically, your wallet).
> 
> It isn't a good thing to have one company meaningfully ahead of the other for any length of time at all.


I'm sorry, but it's not our fault that AMD is now close to a year behind nvidia. Second, it's our choice to spend our money as we please, it has no affect on you, thus you shouldn't really care how we spend it. If we feel like shelling out 1/4 of a paycheck on a 1,000$ gpu than that's our business. Also, a 6,144 20NM card @ 1,000$ would be a much better price than a 2,880 core 28nm card @ 1,000$. Also, no one said AMD takes a loss besides you. This is my only "expensive" hobby, & either way I won't be replacing my titans for at least another year... SO, if the 6k 20nm card does come to fruition I won't be acquiring them until the end of next year/2015. The whole point of acquiring titans was to skip out on @least one tick. I will likely have enough power to hold off on another GPU upgrade until they do a refresh of the rumored 6,000 core gpu.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> i do see 5gb Vram taken up in Batman AO.... although i do not know if that's the needed amount or allocated. How does one know if its needed or merely allocated?
> 
> 4MSAA does 2600MB vram, 8MSAA does 3600 MB vram or more on 1440p.










are you triple 1440p? Or single 1440p?

Anyone on 290X also seeing high vram utilization in origins? Trying to compare as closely as possible. If it's allocation than wouldn't 290X also see higher vram utilization than say a 3gb card?

sigh, i wish more games had in depth settings break down's like Serious Sam 3 has... It even has a cpu settings list!


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I'm sorry, but it's not our fault that AMD is now close to a year behind nvidia. Second, it's our choice to spend our money as we please, it has no affect on you, thus you shouldn't really care how we spend it. If we feel like shelling out 1/4 of a paycheck on a 1,000$ gpu than that's our business. Also, a 6,144 20NM card @ 1,000$ would be a much better price than a 2,880 core 28nm card @ 1,000$. Also, no one said AMD takes a loss besides you. This is my only "expensive" hobby, & either way I won't be replacing my titans for at least another year... SO, if the 6k 20nm card does come to fruition I won't be acquiring them until the end of next year/2015. The whole point of acquiring titans was to skip out on @least one tick. I will likely have enough power to hold off on another GPU upgrade until they do a refresh of the rumored 6,000 core gpu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you triple 1440p? Or single 1440p?
> 
> Anyone on 290X also seeing high vram utilization?


this is all single 1440p, baby.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> this is all single 1440p, baby.


Then it must be "if it's there, it's going to use it" type of thing. Interested to see 290X results.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I'm sorry, but it's not our fault that AMD is now close to a year behind nvidia. Second, it's our choice to spend our money as we please, it has no affect on you, thus you shouldn't really care how we spend it. If we feel like shelling out 1/4 of a paycheck on a 1,000$ gpu than that's our business. Also, a 6,144 20NM card @ 1,000$ would be a much better price than a 2,880 core 28nm card @ 1,000$. Also, no one said AMD takes a loss besides you. This is my only "expensive" hobby, & either way I won't be replacing my titans for at least another year... SO, if the 6k 20nm card does come to fruition I won't be acquiring them until the end of next year/2015. The whole point of acquiring titans was to skip out on @least one tick. I will likely have enough power to hold off on another GPU upgrade until they do a refresh of the rumored 6,000 core gpu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you triple 1440p? Or single 1440p?
> 
> Anyone on 290X also seeing high vram utilization in origins? Trying to compare as closely as possible. If it's allocation than wouldn't 290X also see higher vram utilization than say a 3gb card?
> 
> sigh, i wish more games had in depth settings break down's like Serious Sam 3 has... It even has a cpu settings list!


Ok granted I side with you on the fact that you can spend your money how you see fit. And I know you even agree that Nvidia is/was priced too high. But I stated in another thread that the Titan and 780 are not and have not been new tech. Nvidia stumbled upon they eventual emergence not by intiating the idea from scratch but rather from having to decide what to do with the not so perfect Quadro chips. I am not trying to demean the performance that was the best and impressive for those that could or were willing to afford them. But that in now way makes Nvidia ahead of AMD, nor that AMD was behind.

Of course now that I reread your post I gather you meant as far as a competition behind rather than design. Well I guess that is what you're saying. You have been reasonable so I deem you meant release competition. I am gonna leave up my previous statement because I think it needs said anyway.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Ok granted I side with you on the fact that you can spend your money how you see fit. And I know you even agree that Nvidia is/was priced too high. But I stated in another thread that the Titan and 780 are not and have not been new tech. Nvidia stumbled upon they eventual emergence not by intiating the idea from scratch but rather from having to decide what to do with the not so perfect Quadro chips. I am not trying to demean the performance that was the best and impressive for those that could or were willing to afford them. But that in now way makes Nvidia ahead of AMD, nor that AMD was behind.
> 
> Of course now that I reread your post I gather you meant as far as a competition behind rather than design. Well I guess that is what you're saying. You have been reasonable so I deem you meant release competition. I am gonna leave up my previous statement because I think it needs said anyway.


Fair enough! The chip's that didn't go to federal super computers, went to quadro, what didn't pass quadro went to enthusiast grade... Or something like that. Nvidia must have an insane overhead with all the *crap* they have been working on. Shield, G-sync, w/e else they have stashed away in the lab. Also, if they really do implement this "Greenlight" 100% NO OC lockdown, they will lose me as a customer, which will leave me waiting for AMD's true next architecture.

All that being said, and my current "toy account" padding, I truly hope I can survive on three titans for maybe even three years before drop in performance forces me to upgrade. Though really, my next upgrade should be new triple 1440p panels. Which I won't acquire until a legit 120hz+ model comes to market.


----------



## tinmann

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> found the first mod i saw on twitter:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/393877070117220352%2Fphoto%2F1


BRILLIANT !!!


----------



## keiths

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heinz68*
> 
> Nvidia did not screw anybody, some people just have way too much money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so Nvidia help them to spend some so they all end up happy.
> Anyway from what I read on the net most people are very happy, no more $1000 single GPU video cards and that goes same for fanboys on both site or for some people who can remain neutral.


Nvidia tried greatly increasing the price paradigm, which they've done before on more than one occasion. It's a business and expected, but they go overboard, the answer for the consumer is to refuse buying both the top end and the overpriced cut down versions, which is the tact I take, but enough people seem to buy/nvidia willing to weather any hit in sales as a long term strategy of getting people to accept high pricing. My side has been losing this battle, after all, we're cheering AMD bringing the price "down" to $550.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Fair enough! The chip's that didn't go to federal super computers, went to quadro, what didn't pass quadro went to enthusiast grade... Or something like that. Nvidia must have an insane overhead with all the *crap* they have been working on. Shield, G-sync, w/e else they have stashed away in the lab. Also, if they really do implement this "Greenlight" 100% NO OC lockdown, they will lose me as a customer, which will leave me waiting for AMD's true next architecture.
> 
> All that being said, and my current "toy account" padding, I truly hope I can survive on three titans for maybe even three years before drop in performance forces me to upgrade. Though really, my next upgrade should be new triple 1440p panels. Which I won't acquire until a legit 120hz+ model comes to market.


Don't know if you have seen this RAPTR thing AMD has. Downloaded in 13.11beta6. Havent had time to look into all the specifics but it looks to be a way for AMD to get feed back from AMD GPUs in games, might help with a smaller Driver department. I am not too keen on having something with an open connection running all the time but if it helps get results quicker I am all for it.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Don't know if you have seen this RAPTR thing AMD has. Downloaded in 13.11beta6. Havent had time to look into all the specifics but it looks to be a way for AMD to get feed back from AMD GPUs in games, might help with a smaller Driver department. I am not too keen on having something with an open connection running all the time but if it helps get results quicker I am all for it.


I remember them talking about it @ GPU14... Allows them to gather information on system spec Vs. FPS & spit out what the best setting should be for said persons config. Sounds intriguing, even if the NSA has yet another back door to snoop on us. It also sounds allot like Geforce Experience, though i'm not sure if experience does any real time data analysis, i think it spits out the same data for everyone... Tells me to run cry3 in sub 1080p w/ two titans on one monitor... lol! /uninstall.


----------



## BigMack70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I'm sorry, but it's not our fault that AMD is now close to a year behind nvidia. Second, it's our choice to spend our money as we please, it has no affect on you, thus you shouldn't really care how we spend it. If we feel like shelling out 1/4 of a paycheck on a 1,000$ gpu than that's our business. Also, a 6,144 20NM card @ 1,000$ would be a much better price than a 2,880 core 28nm card @ 1,000$. Also, no one said AMD takes a loss besides you. This is my only "expensive" hobby, & either way I won't be replacing my titans for at least another year... SO, if the 6k 20nm card does come to fruition I won't be acquiring them until the end of next year/2015. The whole point of acquiring titans was to skip out on @least one tick. I will likely have enough power to hold off on another GPU upgrade until they do a refresh of the rumored 6,000 core gpu.


You really think you got the better end of the deal buying a Titan for $1k instead of buying one for $600-700 if there had been competition?

Yeah, makes sense.









If Nvidia or AMD "wins", their fans and all other consumers "lose". Parity might drive fanboys nuts but it saves everyone money, and that's win-win.


----------



## routek

Just wanted to mention that the 290x is

$549 US - Newegg only has $579
£450 UK - and as little as £42x in UK

Just like the Titan at launch was £800 and $1000, just like the gtx 480 and 580 at launch were $500 US and around £400 UK and 99% of the hardware I've looked at for 6+ years.

Some people are often claiming UK get the same price as the US, no conversion and just the pound sign swapped which is just complete horse crap, utter myth "rip of britain" blah blah.

What usually happens is the conversion and VAT is done accordingly.

I've started to hear this BS used by in passing on podcasts from other countries, citing how UK often gets this price switch treatment, probably becasue they read it on the forums of people who just auto assume its happening and like to complain about UK and the cost of things.

Just getting sick of people lumping us in with Euro pricing, one guy I replied to said "oh I was on about launch" but it isn't the case normally.

People in the mainland Europe buy hardware and games from the UK to save money, been happening for years.

New console games are half price in a matter of weeks, which is equivalent to $30-40, has been common since 2008. Also think how a newish game drops to £25, 20% of that is Tax so it makes it £20 for the dev/pub, about $30. America has held its game prices higher for much longer over the last 7-8 years and has tax added on or not at all. Ours is included, so dev/pub gets much more from US consumers.

must note this trend of staying $60 has dropped just recently which is understandable.

Games here rarely sell for RRP. They often launch at £30-35 which is roughly $50 or £40 for a few weeks, again with VAT already in the price its £28 to the dev/pub which is $48, yet US is a straight $60.

UK is a tough market, the US is a great boon as so many shell out $60 for a game.

Fuel is expensive here, retail is small margin and very competitive. the goods just sit on the shelf otherwise


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> Just wanted to mention that the 290x is
> 
> $549 US - Newegg only has $579
> £450 UK - and as little as £42x in UK
> 
> Just like the Titan at launch was £800 and $1000, just like the gtx 480 and 580 at launch were $500 US and around £400 UK and 99% of the hardware I've looked at for 6+ years.
> 
> Some people are often claiming UK get the same price as the US, no conversion and just the pound sign swapped which is just complete horse crap, utter myth "rip of britain" blah blah.
> 
> What usually happens is the conversion and VAT is done accordingly.
> 
> I've started to hear this BS used by in passing on podcasts from other countries, citing how UK often gets this price switch treatment, probably becasue they read it on the forums of people who just auto assume its happening and like to complain about UK and the cost of things.
> 
> Just getting sick of people lumping us in with Euro pricing, one guy I replied to said "oh I was on about launch" but it isn't the case normally.
> 
> People in the mainland Euorpe buy hardware and games from the UK to save money, been happening for years.
> 
> New console games are half price in a matter of weeks, which is equivalent to $30-40, has been common since 2008. Also think how a newish game drops to £25, 20% of that is Tax so it makes it £20 for the dev/pub, about $30. America has held its game prices higher for much longer over the last 7-8 years and has tax added on or not at all. Ours is included, so dev/pub gets much more from US consumers.
> 
> must note this trend of staying $60 has dropped just recently which is understandable.
> 
> Games here rarely sell for RRP. They often launch at £30-35 which is roughly $50, again with VAT already in the price its £28 to the dev/pub which is $48, yet US is a straight $60.
> 
> UK is a tough market, the US is a great boon as so many shell out $60 for a game


Hey bud? Your numbers are in pounds. The numbers people speak of when we say "The sign switched but not the numbers" is Euros.

Your £450 is 525 Euros ($723 USD) vs $550 USD
Your £800 is 934 Euros ($1287 USD) vs $1000 USD

Get it?

Also just because Britain gets screwed over less doesn't mean they aren't still screwed over. That's still about 30% over the cost here. VAT is what, 21%?


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I'm sorry, but it's not our fault that AMD is now close to a year behind nvidia. Second, it's our choice to spend our money as we please, it has no affect on you, thus you shouldn't really care how we spend it. If we feel like shelling out 1/4 of a paycheck on a 1,000$ gpu than that's our business. Also, a 6,144 20NM card @ 1,000$ would be a much better price than a 2,880 core 28nm card @ 1,000$. Also, no one said AMD takes a loss besides you. This is my only "expensive" hobby, & either way I won't be replacing my titans for at least another year... SO, if the 6k 20nm card does come to fruition I won't be acquiring them until the end of next year/2015. The whole point of acquiring titans was to skip out on @least one tick. I will likely have enough power to hold off on another GPU upgrade until they do a refresh of the rumored 6,000 core gpu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you triple 1440p? Or single 1440p?
> 
> Anyone on 290X also seeing high vram utilization in origins? Trying to compare as closely as possible. If it's allocation than wouldn't 290X also see higher vram utilization than say a 3gb card?
> 
> sigh, i wish more games had in depth settings break down's like Serious Sam 3 has... It even has a cpu settings list!


Can a mod clean up this thread of all the fanboyism flaming? I mean some of these posts (like this "gem" here) make my eyes bleed


----------



## Amorphis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Can a mod clean up this thread of all the fanboyism flaming? I mean some of these posts (like this "gem" here) make my eyes bleed


Nah we got you to do that for us apparently(self modding).


----------



## armartins

The guy with 5Gb+ Vram usage at Batman isn't it just SLI doubling the amount read? BTW... I hit the 3Gb cap on my 7970 using several mods from nexus but skipping original high res packs (those just make loading times terrible with barely any difference between the nexus mods high res packs.... also I don't use AA... just lot's of mods + ENB...


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Can a mod clean up this thread of all the fanboyism flaming? I mean some of these posts (like this "gem" here) make my eyes bleed


I'm simply responding to the horrid accusations being put out by people. May as well remove those too if you wan't my post removed. Any post assuming either company is screwing customers should be removed for that matter, until then i will keep defending my purchased. Like I said, they are mine, my money, my choice. If my post is "fanboyism" than anyone making the statement's of companies screwing over customer's are also fanboyism. You may have better luck flagging it, and giving a valid reason for deletion.

















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *armartins*
> 
> The guy with 5Gb+ Vram usage at Batman isn't it just SLI doubling the amount read? BTW... I hit the 3Gb cap on my 7970 using several mods from nexus but skipping original high res packs (those just make loading times terrible with barely any difference between the nexus mods high res packs.... also I don't use AA... just lot's of mods + ENB...


Mod's for batman? Or are you talking about skyrim?

doesn't quite work like that, Memory pools are mirrored, not doubled. though monitoring software has been known to bug and throw out strange readings. If you don't properly reboot some monitoring software it will give you readings into the thousands of gigs of vram. 5,666,444,332,223 like PrecX likes to do some times.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I remember them talking about it @ GPU14... Allows them to gather information on system spec Vs. FPS & spit out what the best setting should be for said persons config. Sounds intriguing, even if the NSA has yet another back door to snoop on us. It also sounds allot like Geforce Experience, though i'm not sure if experience does any real time data analysis, i think it spits out the same data for everyone... Tells me to run cry3 in sub 1080p w/ two titans on one monitor... lol! /uninstall.


For reference on how Raptr Gaming Evolved works(using it right now, wanted to actually see what it says) i picked Borderlands 2 for example(I dont have any of my really demanding games installed, raptr checks by scanning games you own and installed):

Using my 7850 for reference

For Quality its labeled:
Anisotropic Filtering: 16
Texture Quality: 0(the numbering system is based on what your current settings are on). im on ultra atm last i recall
Framerate: 6 << this i cant say what it exactly means
Game Detail: 0(see texture quality)
Bullet Decals: 2
View Distance: 3
Folliage Distance:1
FXAA:True

For Balanced its labeled:
Anisotropic Filtering: 8
Texture Quality: 1(assuming 1 less than ultra)
Framerate: 6 << this i cant say what it exactly means
Game Detail: -20
Bullet Decals: 1
View Distance: 3
Folliage Distance:.5
FXAA:False

For Performance its labeled:
Anisotropic Filtering: 2(lol)
Texture Quality: 1
Framerate: 6 << this i cant say what it exactly means
Game Detail: -40
Bullet Decals: 0
View Distance: 2
Folliage Distance: .5
FXAA:False

Its not the best tool, and it still needs a lot of polish(hence the beta). I only installed it since i was already using raptr as a chat service in the first place since it links a bunch of other chat functions into one unified system(links steam, live, PSN, aim, facebook, gtalk, xfire, yahoo, msn and of course, raptr itself)


----------



## mrr9

I think the 290X is excellent. If you add Mantle and more mature drivers, things will only get better. Even Nvidia is discounting prices. Whats not to love?
Hell, even dual 280's looks like an excellent prospect.

I'm etching to build a monster itx PC now but...no money


----------



## amd655




----------



## fateswarm

^ haha. I guess you went through the first 2 days of it.

Suggestion, skip to the last half of it.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> For reference on how Raptr Gaming Evolved works(using it right now, wanted to actually see what it says) i picked Borderlands 2 for example(I dont have any of my really demanding games installed, raptr checks by scanning games you own and installed):
> 
> Using my 7850 for reference
> 
> For Quality its labeled:
> Anisotropic Filtering: 16
> Texture Quality: 0(the numbering system is based on what your current settings are on). im on ultra atm last i recall
> Framerate: 6 << this i cant say what it exactly means
> Game Detail: 0(see texture quality)
> Bullet Decals: 2
> View Distance: 3
> Folliage Distance:1
> FXAA:True
> 
> For Balanced its labeled:
> Anisotropic Filtering: 8
> Texture Quality: 1(assuming 1 less than ultra)
> Framerate: 6 << this i cant say what it exactly means
> Game Detail: -20
> Bullet Decals: 1
> View Distance: 3
> Folliage Distance:.5
> FXAA:False
> 
> For Performance its labeled:
> Anisotropic Filtering: 2(lol)
> Texture Quality: 1
> Framerate: 6 << this i cant say what it exactly means
> Game Detail: -40
> Bullet Decals: 0
> View Distance: 2
> Folliage Distance: .5
> FXAA:False
> 
> Its not the best tool, and it still needs a lot of polish(hence the beta). I only installed it since i was already using raptr as a chat service in the first place since it links a bunch of other chat functions into one unified system(links steam, live, PSN, aim, facebook, gtalk, xfire, yahoo, msn and of course, raptr itself)


Just a speculation, but could the 6 value for frame rate be possibly referring to a 60Hz monitor refresh rate?


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Hey bud? Your numbers are in pounds. The numbers people speak of when we say "The sign switched but not the numbers" is Euros.
> 
> Your £450 is 525 Euros ($723 USD) vs $550 USD
> Your £800 is 934 Euros ($1287 USD) vs $1000 USD
> 
> Get it?
> 
> Also just because Britain gets screwed over less doesn't mean they aren't still screwed over. That's still about 30% over the cost here. VAT is what, 21%?


I think the difference most likely has something more to do with the cost of bulk overseas shipping to the retailers and the subsequent markup they put on the price tag to counter that.

IIRC, the average VAT in Europe is about 25%, some nations are as low as 19-21%, some as high as 30%...


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> I think the difference most likely has something more to do with the cost of bulk overseas shipping to the retailers and the subsequent markup they put on the price tag to counter that.
> 
> IIRC, the average VAT in Europe is about 25%, some nations are as low as 19-21%, some as high as 30%...


NZ is typically around 40%....not even VAT, simply sheer price-gouging.

Nobody else is allowed to complain about high prices really


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> NZ is typically around 40%....not even VAT, simply sheer price-gouging.
> 
> Nobody else is allowed to complain about high prices really


some of the folks in South America are going to have some stern words for you









(btw, since you're from 



 *language warning*)


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> I think the difference most likely has something more to do with the cost of bulk overseas shipping to the retailers and the subsequent markup they put on the price tag to counter that.
> 
> IIRC, the average VAT in Europe is about 25%, some nations are as low as 19-21%, some as high as 30%...


VAT among other things funds EU budget and unless something has changed since I was in the university, it can vary between 15%-25% (there is also the reduced VAT but for certain types of products or conditions).


----------



## KyadCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KyadCK*
> 
> Hey bud? Your numbers are in pounds. The numbers people speak of when we say "The sign switched but not the numbers" is Euros.
> 
> Your £450 is 525 Euros ($723 USD) vs $550 USD
> Your £800 is 934 Euros ($1287 USD) vs $1000 USD
> 
> Get it?
> 
> Also just because Britain gets screwed over less doesn't mean they aren't still screwed over. That's still about 30% over the cost here. VAT is what, 21%?
> 
> 
> 
> I think the difference most likely has something more to do with the cost of bulk overseas shipping to the retailers and the subsequent markup they put on the price tag to counter that.
> 
> IIRC, the average VAT in Europe is about 25%, some nations are as low as 19-21%, some as high as 30%...
Click to expand...

Probably, but since all the chips and electronics are made in Taiwan, Korea, China, and other Asian countries (Read: not the US) we have some pretty hefty bulk shipping fees of our own.

For VAT I was referring to Britain specifically. I've been helping a few members of the UK with computer building stuff. This coming sale season (Black Friday [Nov 29th] through Cyber Monday [Dec 2nd]) It will be significantly cheaper to have me buy it and ship overseas to them, even after shipping (about $65 for 5-10 day) and Import tax (20% of item price and shipping), then for them to buy locally. It's already cheaper if the board and CPU come from MicroCenter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> I think the difference most likely has something more to do with the cost of bulk overseas shipping to the retailers and the subsequent markup they put on the price tag to counter that.
> 
> IIRC, the average VAT in Europe is about 25%, some nations are as low as 19-21%, some as high as 30%...
> 
> 
> 
> NZ is typically around 40%....not even VAT, simply sheer price-gouging.
> 
> Nobody else is allowed to complain about high prices really
Click to expand...

Yes I've heard horror stories of NZ... I've been tempted multiple times to buy a few high-end GPUs, go on vacation there, and sell some to fellow OCNers.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> Just a speculation, but could the 6 value for frame rate be possibly referring to a 60Hz monitor refresh rate?


possibly since my monitor is stock 60, but I'm running an overclocked state of 75 atm so cant say for sure.


----------



## skupples

please excuse my speech to tExt. Raptr seems basically identical 2 g force experience at least those settings are basically identical.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> please excuse my speech to tExt. Raptr themes basically identical 2 g force experience at least those settings are basically identical


liar, we all know you type like a 3 year old, dont blame text to speech


----------



## Someguy316

That was a feature added to Raptr though, the original purpose of Raptr is to be a gaming community from your Steam, PSN, Xbox Live, etc accounts.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.6gb.... WAT.
> 
> but really, nothing compares to 99 Levels to Hell's Vram usage...
> 
> 
> 
> Modded Skyrim? bah, this is the real VRAM hog.


You're on dual GPUs... it adds the 2 cards' VRAM up as the total... It's not using that amount on 1 GPU


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> You're on dual GPUs... it adds the 2 cards' VRAM up as the total... It's not using that amount on 1 GPU


That's not actually true @ all... You can monitor each card's Vram separately in all these monitoring tools. Not sure about GPU-Z though... It doesn't really make sense that it would add the two card's vram together, as that's not how sli or xfire works. The ram is mirrored, not additive. I'll brb, i'm going to confirm that's not how gpu-z functions.

The reason his PrecX show's that obscene number is because he has it set to boot on windows load, and has crashed, thus requires a restart before properly reading. @least that's the most common reason for miss-read of vram on precX.

edit: After loading into multiple different games & then checking GPU-Z mem reader, it DOES NOT add the two card's values together, @least on nv. Which make's sense, as xfire/sli does not combine both card's ram amount, it simply mirrors them.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> Just wanted to mention that the 290x is
> 
> $549 US - Newegg only has $579
> £450 UK - and as little as £42x in UK


Lowest priced 290x in europe is 460€


----------



## skupples

Pounds and euro's are not the same thing folks...

As of 5 minutes ago...

1 P = .86 EU

1 $ = .62 P

1 EU = 1.37$


----------



## Dynamo11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Pounds and euro's are not the same thing folks...
> 
> As of 5 minutes ago...
> 
> 1 P = .86 EU
> 
> 1 $ = .62 P
> 
> 1 EU = 1.37$


Yeah and vendors usually round up the direct conversion rate.


----------



## tpi2007

Guru3D has invested in thermal imaging and starting with the 290X review (which has been updated with a new page) will be showing how hot components actually are:

Quote:


> Thermal Imaging Temperature measurements
> 
> A new addition towards our reviews will be the inclusion of Forward Looking Infra Red thermal images of hardware. Over the past years we have been trying to figure out what the best possible way is to measure temperatures on hardware. Multiple options are available but the best thing to do is to visualize heat coming from the product or component being tested. The downside of thermal imaging hardware is simple, FLIR camera's with a bit of decent resolution costs up-to 10.000 EUR. Hence we passed on it for a long time.


Quote:


> Why a move towards Thermal Imaging ?
> 
> A new trend e.g. cheat is that manufacturers are tweaking their products with another offset, meaning that sometimes (and we have seen this only a couple of times) the temperature reported back by monitoring software often was lower then the product in reality is. With thermal imaging this becomes a thing of the past as we can seek hotspots on the PCB indicating for example GPU but also VRM temperature as well as how heat is distributed throughout a product. We do hope you will enjoy this new technology as it did cost us an arm and a leg to be able to implement it.


Quote:


> Overall I am not disappointed. Yes the card runs hot, but does seem to manage the heat pretty well.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Guru3D has invested in thermal imaging and starting with the 290X review (which has been updated with a new page) will be showing how hot components actually are:


IR3567 PWM controller -- -40°C to 85°C ambient
--> www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/pb-ir3567b.pdf‎

IR6894 / IR6811 DirectFET
--> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf6811spbf.pdf
--> http://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir?cmd=catProductDetailFrame&productID=IRF6811STRPBF
--> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf6894mpbf.pdf
--> http://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir?cmd=catProductDetailFrame&productID=IRF6894MTRPBF

Cooper Bussman 1007R3 choke --> can handle 125°C
--> http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electronics/Resources/product-datasheets/Bus_Elx_DS_4341_FP1007_Series.pdf

Hynix memory H5GQ2H24AFR-ROC
--> http://www.skhynix.com/products/graphics/view.jsp?info.ramKind=26&info.serialNo=H5GQ2H24AFR

Pretty sure most of these can handle 100°C 95°C on the GPU *die* because the VRM is hovering at ~80°C on the Guru3d review


----------



## fateswarm

I like that thermal imaging option too. It makes so much sense. It's one of those things you don't think about but then you see one guy doing it and you're like, yeah, that's spot on.

edit: It's probably how hardware manufacturers make sure their reference contraptions work, one of the methods.


----------



## aymanibousi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> NZ is typically around 40%....not even VAT, simply sheer price-gouging.
> 
> Nobody else is allowed to complain about high prices really


Yeah thats the only thing i hate bout NZ, luckly i have a friend who goes to america twice a month


----------



## pokerapar88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> some of the folks in South America are going to have some stern words for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (btw, since you're from
> 
> 
> 
> *language warning*)


Yup, Argentina is 50% tax for any imported product + 21% VAT so a total of 71% inflation in price. But this doesn't end here. That's the price if YOU import it. Usually products sold at stores are around 200% the original US price, without taking into account that our country suffers from inflation and depreciation of our currency.

As an example, I just bought a Samsung 6 series 3d tv (32") and I paid around $815 USD
A reference GTX 780 is $1100 USD


----------



## outofmyheadyo

jesus christ I feel bad for you man


----------



## altsanity

I feel bad too.... In South Africa we also get shafted with electronic prices but not that bad...

I just ordered my Gigabyte 290x for R7600 ~$760. Cheapest deal by around $200... I'm getting it at around the same price the matrix 280x is going for.


----------



## sondaugergo

me too, we're probably not getting any drops and we'll just see ti models added. thank you


----------



## skupples

Well, either way. If 780Ti really is 2880 cores, people will poop all over them selves to get a hold of it, even if it is only 3gb, which blow's my mind. YES! Let's release a FULL BLOWN GK110, with only 3gigs of memory on it!!!!! I guess that's how it's only 700$. Look's like stock titan block's will fit onto the ref model too, so that's a plus. Still though, it's not a viable upgrade unless you are not a gk110 owner imo.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pokerapar88*
> 
> Yup, Argentina is 50% tax for any imported product + 21% VAT so a total of 71% inflation in price. But this doesn't end here. That's the price if YOU import it. Usually products sold at stores are around 200% the original US price, without taking into account that our country suffers from inflation and depreciation of our currency.
> 
> As an example, I just bought a Samsung 6 series 3d tv (32") and I paid around $815 USD
> A reference GTX 780 is $1100 USD


My god u got riped off on that tv. I just got a 55" samsung 8000 series for $1600 and thats the top end tv..


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Well, either way. If 780Ti really is 2880 cores, people will poop all over them selves to get a hold of it, even if it is only 3gb, which blow's my mind. YES! Let's release a FULL BLOWN GK110, with only 3gigs of memory on it!!!!! I guess that's how it's only 700$. Look's like stock titan block's will fit onto the ref model too, so that's a plus. Still though, it's not a viable upgrade unless you are not a gk110 owner imo.


Do we really need 6GB to game on 1080p even 1440p?

If they added 6GB, and didn't cripple compute, then it would've been Titan 2.0, and no way it would've been $699.

If you want a full blown GK110 for professional use, with *12GB* of RAM, get your hands on this puppy.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133494


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Do we really need 6GB to game on 1080p even 1440p?
> 
> If they added 6GB, and didn't cripple compute, then it would've been Titan 2.0, and no way it would've been $699.
> 
> If you want a full blown GK110 for professional use, with *12GB* of RAM, get your hands on this puppy.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133494


LOL, try these, just sold 24 of these, 3 per SL250s server, Tesla... http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/10369326/mfg_partno/A0R41A


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AJR1775*
> 
> LOL, try these, just sold 24 of these, 3 per SL250s server, Tesla... http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/10369326/mfg_partno/A0R41A


What a sweet deal that is.









Makes me feel all cozy inside that I only paid $275 for my card.

btw - how much will Atlas be? K20X is $7699.


----------



## AJR1775

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> What a sweet deal that is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Makes me feel all cozy inside that I only paid $275 for my card.
> 
> btw - how much will Atlas be? K20X is $7699.


I can't divulge our cost or the clients price but it was a lot less than MSRP, $7,699.00. Server room feels like a sauna









They'll be able to have 24 remote Virtual Desktop sessions of Revit, which is like another $7k a license lol.... http://www.autodesk.com/products/autodesk-revit-family/overview

I'm more interested in the Grid GPU which will allow multiple Virtual Desktops to tap the same GPU.


----------



## SSTGohanX

Nottt gonna lie: this card looks sexy af. But casing almost makes no difference to me as if i was to buy one (like any other video card) it would have a full cover waterblock lol...


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AJR1775*
> 
> I can't divulge our cost or the clients price but it was a lot less than MSRP, $7,699.00. Server room feels like a sauna


I meant K40, it's not out yet.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Do we really need 6GB to game on 1080p even 1440p?
> 
> If they added 6GB, and didn't cripple compute, then it would've been Titan 2.0, and no way it would've been $699.
> 
> If you want a full blown GK110 for professional use, with *12GB* of RAM, get your hands on this puppy.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133494


No not really, definitely not for single 1080P. Triple 1080P for sure utilizes over 3gb in allot of super shiny game's, and will only get higher when we start getting true next gen titles. Origins & bf4 can both utilize over 3gb in surround. I will honestly be pleasantly surprised if 780ti is full 15smx.

other games that iv'e noticed go over 3gb, arma 3, serious sam 3, Hitman:AB... hrm' i know iv'e ran into others. They won't tempt me! I'll be happy with tri-titan well into 2014, i'm trying to hold off on another gpu upgrade until top of the line maxwell 20nm refresher comes around. Though, i'm growing dissatisfied with nvidia for other reasons than performance.


----------



## 2010rig

I can understand for Surround users that extra VRAM will come in handy, but for the majority 3 GB will suffice.

To hit the $699 price tag, some compromises have to be made, and that's why they went with 3GB.

I doubt NVIDIA is ready to EOL Titan, and they needed to release a faster card. 780TI will be a pure gaming card, and will have compute disabled. Let's face it, other than folders, how many Titan owners *on this site* actually use DP?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I can understand for Surround users that extra VRAM will come in handy, but for the majority 3 GB will suffice.
> 
> To hit the $699 price tag, some compromises have to be made, and that's why they went with 3GB.
> 
> I doubt NVIDIA is ready to EOL Titan, and they needed to release a faster card. 780TI will be a pure gaming card, and will have compute disabled. Let's face it, other than folders, how many Titan owners *on this site* actually use DP?


Truth, truth, & truth. What I wonder is if 780Ti will have the second frame buffer enabled.


----------



## Forceman

I love how the minute a card with 4GB gets released, suddenly 3GB isn't enough anymore. Same exact thing happened when the 7970 dropped - then 2GB was a waste of money.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I love how the minute a card with 4GB gets released, suddenly 3GB isn't enough anymore. Same exact thing happened when the 7970 dropped - then 2GB was a waste of money.


if there's hardware that exists and is ready for the consumer to use, then there exists at least one dev that will make use of the potential resources. If no developers stepped up to the plate, game development would stagnate.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I love how the minute a card with 4GB gets released, suddenly 3GB isn't enough anymore. Same exact thing happened when the 7970 dropped - then 2GB was a waste of money.


well bf4 certainly is making 2gb a waste of money...


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> if there's hardware that exists and is ready for the consumer to use, then there exists at least one dev that will make use of the potential resources. If no developers stepped up to the plate, game development would stagnate.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I love how the minute a card with 4GB gets released, suddenly 3GB isn't enough anymore. Same exact thing happened when the 7970 dropped - then 2GB was a waste of money.


I love how people forget that many of the people on this forum are multi-monitor users & that 2gb has been too little for even 1080p surround for over a year now. Going from a 2gb 670 sli setup, to say a 4gb (same mem bus) 680 setup made no sense to my wallet. The best choice was to go all out, to make sure vram would never be an issue, thus titans ended up in my system.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> well bf4 certainly is making 2gb a waste of money...


And BF4 is probably exactly like BF3, where it allocates more than it needs. It was tested pretty extensively last year during the 2GB vs 3GB debates, and even though it used more than 2GB on 7970s, it didn't affect performance on 2GB 680s. Use =/= need.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I love how people forget that many of the people on this forum are multi-monitor users & that 2gb has been too little for even 1080p surround for over a year now. Going from a 2gb 670 sli setup, to say a 4gb (same mem bus) 680 setup made no sense to my wallet. The best choice was to go all out, to make sure vram would never be an issue, thus titans ended up in my system.


I never said 2GB wasn't an issue, I said people completely discounting 3GB just because a 4GB card is available would be the same as everyone discounting 4GB just because a 6GB card is available. There are edge cases where you may need more than 3GB, but that wasn't my point. And again, just because BF4 says it is using 4GB, doesn't mean it performs any different than it does on a 3GB card.


----------



## modinn

And this is the exact debate that's been going in my head over the last 2 months. "Should I get another 2GB 680+waterblock for ~$375 or go for 3GB+ and a newer card for $400+waterblock". I play Skyrim a lot still and my VRAM has been maxxed since I bought the card due to the amount of texture mods. I have 3 monitors, but I don't do much surround gaming on them because my main monitor is 144Hz and I usually play FPS/RPG games. I'm an edge case, but I cannot for the life of me decide on getting a 290+block for $500-550 or getting that second 680 2GB for more performance....

First world problems


----------



## Acefire

I bet they will release a variant of the R9 290x with 8gbs of ram on it. I have chosen vram as a decisive factor since I ran crossfire back with old HD Radeon 4xxx series simply because it allows crossfire and sli to be an option down the road.


----------



## anubis1127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *modinn*
> 
> And this is the exact debate that's been going in my head over the last 2 months. "Should I get another 2GB 680+waterblock for ~$375 or go for 3GB+ and a newer card for $400+waterblock". I play Skyrim a lot still and my VRAM has been maxxed since I bought the card due to the amount of texture mods. I have 3 monitors, but I don't do much surround gaming on them because my main monitor is 144Hz and I usually play FPS/RPG games. I'm an edge case, but I cannot for the life of me decide on getting a 290+block for $500-550 or getting that second 680 2GB for more performance....
> 
> First world problems


144hz 1080p? Grab a 2nd 680 on the cheap for some lightboost action.


----------



## 2advanced

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Will the _Skupples' Guide to Titan Justification_ come out in both hardcover and softcover variants?


+Rep


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Do we really need 6GB to game on 1080p even 1440p?
> 
> If they added 6GB, and didn't cripple compute, then it would've been Titan 2.0, and no way it would've been $699.
> 
> If you want a full blown GK110 for professional use, with *12GB* of RAM, get your hands on this puppy.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133494


"Puppy".

That's a behemoth Industrial-grade Investment.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> "Puppy".
> 
> That's a behemoth Industrial-grade Investment.


That costs almost twice that of my car.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Will the _Skupples' Guide to Titan Justification_ come out in both hardcover and softcover variants?


Funny. I bet even skupples will get a laugh. But his point is valid. I think 4gb or more in the recent future will be min for highend graphics. Probably more further if optimizations don't surface. Mantle may have an impact on Vram usage, maybe not.

But on the topic of Titan justification, I haven't really seen one Titan owner that didn't agree that Titans price was too high. So I gather a part of them still to this day try to justify it constantly to them selves and others. I sit here now trying to justify my intent on purchasing a 290X to my wife, I don't make a lot of money. Because they did purchase their Titans doesn't make them evil or stupid. Some of them have more than enough money to purchase a number of them without sacrificing a thing to do so. Others are like me and know they will have to do without somethings to afford it. Or let the wife splurge a bit so you have some fodder when the time comes and you want to purchase said card.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Funny. I bet even skupples will get a laugh. But his point is valid. I think 4gb or more in the recent future will be min for highend graphics. Probably more further if optimizations don't surface. Mantle may have an impact on Vram usage, maybe not.
> 
> But on the topic of Titan justification, I haven't really seen one Titan owner that didn't agree that Titans price was too high. So I gather a part of them still to this day try to justify it constantly to them selves and others. I sit here now trying to justify my intent on purchasing a 290X to my wife, I don't make a lot of money. Because they did purchase their Titans doesn't make them evil or stupid. Some of them have more than enough money to purchase a number of them without sacrificing a thing to do so. Others are like me and know they will have to do without somethings to afford it. Or let the wife splurge a bit so you have some fodder when the time comes and you want to purchase said card.


I agree with Skupples' point regarding 4GB VRAM on a 256bit bus. I considered it myself and concluded it was a poor choice; it's either going to choke on the bus width at high pixel counts, or go to waste at low pixel counts (IMO).

Regarding Skupples' comments lately and his Titans, the thing which is getting annoying for me personally are these defensive reactions from multiple Titan owners, in multiple threads, to OCN trolls telling them "the Titan is irrelevant", by storming around stating how a) it's still the best, b) it was worth it c) it got released almost a year ago.

To me, it's like 'Newflash: 99% of readers really have no issues with you having one (or more than one) Titan - the minority is baiting you to respond to them, and you not only take the bait, but then apply how relevant the card is to countless other posts on the forums'. I hope Skupples (and other Titan owners) get a chuckle out of my post, but I also hope they realise that there's really no need to justify your purchase anymore; we get why you bought them and why you're happy with them.









I also just went through the justification process haha; my old man can't understand why I won't just buy a computer from a shopping center and be done with it. I haven't even bothered to tell him I just dropped serious funds on two 290X's (I'm a uni student).


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I highly doubt we'll see 6000 20nm next year. I think it was 2010rig or fateswarm (and we know how pro-Nvidia they are) saying 20nm could have 90% more shaders than 28nm, even they didn't claim Maxwell could get over 100% more.


Sure they can but it wil be very weak cores just like kepler vs fermi.
Skupples doesn't understand that AMD planned to skip a gen and focus on their 20nm design then GK110 was dropped on the consumer market and they had to create something.

Nvidia is in a bad place with a bigger die and stuck on 28nm with AMD cards already matching/beating them at a lower price (when not thermal throttling down to 600MHz)
Custom coolers and pcbs for the 290 and 290x will solve that and better cooling will also reduce power usage.

Whatever increase Mantle gives it will improve the average perf on these cards and Nvidia will be the obvious bad choice in terms of performance.


----------



## DrFPS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Sure they can but it wil be very weak cores just like kepler vs fermi.
> .
> 
> Nvidia is in a bad place with a bigger die and stuck on 28nm with AMD cards already matching/beating them at a lower price (when not thermal throttling down to 600MHz)
> Custom coolers and pcbs for the 290 and 290x will solve that and better cooling will also reduce power usage.
> 
> Whatever increase Mantle gives it will improve the average perf on these cards and Nvidia will be the obvious bad choice in terms of performance.


Who is beating who?
Not here, huh?
http://www.overclock.net/t/872945/top-30-3d-mark-13-fire-strike-scores/2680#post_21097857

Or here.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1406832/single-gpu-firestrike-top-30

http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/1+gpu

http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/2+gpu

http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/3+gpu

http://www.overclock.net/t/1235557/official-top-30-heaven-benchmark-4-0-scores

I think your wrong, and this is more than enough proof. Look at the clock speeds, they almost clocked exactly the same, and yet who has the higher score? 780. Dont show me anymore reviews, I've read them all.
Im beginning to wonder! Do you have personal experience, or you just going by what you read?


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrFPS*
> 
> Who is beating who?
> Not here, huh?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/872945/top-30-3d-mark-13-fire-strike-scores/2680#post_21097857
> 
> Or here.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1406832/single-gpu-firestrike-top-30
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/1+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/2+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/3+gpu
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1235557/official-top-30-heaven-benchmark-4-0-scores
> 
> I think your wrong, and this is more than enough proof. Look at the clock speeds, they almost clocked exactly the same, and yet who has the higher score? 780. Dont show me anymore reviews, I've read them all.
> Im beginning to wonder! Do you have personal experience, or you just going by what you read?


And what experience do you have with the 290x? Truth is it is early yet for boasting. The 780s didn't gun out of the gate. Takes time for drivers and owner experience to show the potential or lack thereof. Besides most are probably basing their opinion on the day one world record post of the 290x with around 300 MHz less than titan, albeit quad CF SLI.


----------



## Tobiman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrFPS*
> 
> Who is beating who?
> Not here, huh?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/872945/top-30-3d-mark-13-fire-strike-scores/2680#post_21097857
> 
> Or here.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1406832/single-gpu-firestrike-top-30
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/1+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/2+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/3+gpu
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1235557/official-top-30-heaven-benchmark-4-0-scores
> 
> I think your wrong, and this is more than enough proof. Look at the clock speeds, they almost clocked exactly the same, and yet who has the higher score? 780. Dont show me anymore reviews, I've read them all.
> Im beginning to wonder! Do you have personal experience, or you just going by what you read?


There's no 290x/290 results on that page because none have been posted yet.


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> And what experience do you have with the 290x? Truth is it is early yet for boasting. The 780s didn't gun out of the gate. Takes time for drivers and owner experience to show the potential or lack thereof. Besides most are probably basing their opinion on the day one world record post of the 290x with around 300 MHz less than titan, albeit quad CF SLI.


I'll ask you the same. What experience do you have with high-end gpu's in general?

Low-end gpu talk that way -->


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I'll ask you the same. What experience do you have with high-end gpu's in general?
> 
> Low-end gpu talk that way -->


Didn't realize sig rig = -/+ of experience


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noobism*
> 
> Didn't realize sig rig = -/+ of *experience*


Anyone can do research online. Having hands on experience with the high-end gpu's you are boasting about means a hell of a lot more.


----------



## Alatar

The truth is that unless you count hwbot scores with tesselation disabled for the AMD cards the 290X has not yet been shown to come close to Titan bench scores, let alone beat them.

Could possibly have something to do with Hawaii beign around on par with Titan clock for clock (depending on the application a bit obviously though) and having a lower OCing ceiling.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrFPS*
> 
> Who is beating who?
> Not here, huh?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/872945/top-30-3d-mark-13-fire-strike-scores/2680#post_21097857
> 
> Or here.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1406832/single-gpu-firestrike-top-30
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/1+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/2+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/3+gpu
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1235557/official-top-30-heaven-benchmark-4-0-scores
> 
> I think your wrong, and this is more than enough proof. Look at the clock speeds, they almost clocked exactly the same, and yet who has the higher score? 780. Dont show me anymore reviews, I've read them all.
> Im beginning to wonder! Do you have personal experience, or you just going by what you read?


Im not really sure where to start with this. You are posting a bunch of links to 3dmark hall of fame pages saying " NO 290X's HERE, GK100 REIGNS SUPREME". Futuremark hasn't approved any of AMD's 290x supporting drivers, so anytime some tries to validate a score it gets thrown out. Not to mention, this card is in it's infancy still. Better performing drivers are scheduled for next week, and the majority of users on this forum are still trying to overclock with their reference cooler. Wait it out and let the dust settle, then you can start making assumptions on the performance of tehse cards.

Also, follow this thread if you want up to date comparisons. Looking at the top 3dmark charts isn't exactly a broad scope:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1436635/ocn-gk110-vs-hawaii-bench-off-thread


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Sure they can but it wil be very weak cores just like kepler vs fermi.
> Skupples doesn't understand that AMD planned to skip a gen and focus on their 20nm design...


This caught my eye. This is exactly what they did with the R300 and blew away the industry.

They had an R250 in the pipeline to stand off against the GF4 Ti, but decided to skip a gen and focus all their firepower into the R300, which objectively was a pretty awesome bit of engineering. What was it, up to twice as fast as the competing NV part? NV had a great lead this year, but it hasn't always been that way. Give-and-take is part of this game.

It's possible that Hawaii took them off their 20nm focus. We'll have to see. Next year is going to be VERY interesting. If this winter is any indication, OCN is going to light up like a firestorm.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Will the _Skupples' Guide to Titan Justification_ come out in both hardcover and softcover variants?


It will also release on I-tunes, Amazon, & urmum.

I have stated 100 way's till sunday that titan hasn't been relevant since 780 released, and now even @ 500$ 780 isn't really relevant. But please, continue to use me as a scapegoat for your self satisfaction towards your purchases. If that's what you need to do to justify spending 579$+100$ on water block's, feel free.

The defensive nature of titan owner's is most of the time provoked, by aimless bashing. Just as it was pre-launch, @ launch, and to this day.









but please, feel free to keep pushing my name in front of your blanket statement's about ALL TITAN OWNER'S SPECIALLY THAT SKUP GUY say blah blah.

The fact is, the rational base of titan owner's fully admit that titan has become irrelevant, in fact, most of us have been saying this since 780 released. Yes, they were, and still are over priced, yes 290X beat's it in many(almost all) situations. I of all people have not contested the 290x's power since launch(just it's temps). I'm mostly sitting back w/ my popcorn watching the benching unfold. Still waiting on that 5760x1080 competition in the Vs. thread.

you may continue your regularly scheduled nvidia bashing. Just remember, Maxwell is around the corner, then after that hopefully AMD's 20Nm is around the corner. Thus is the cycle of the GPU. Welcome to computers.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It will also release on I-tunes, Amazon, & urmum.
> 
> I have stated 100 way's till sunday that titan hasn't been relevant since 780 released, and now even @ 500$ 780 isn't really relevant. But please, continue to use me as a scapegoat for your self satisfaction towards your purchases. If that's what you need to do to justify spending 579$+100$ on water block's, feel free.
> 
> The defensive nature of titan owner's is most of the time provoked, by aimless bashing. Just as it was pre-launch, @ launch, and to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but please, feel free to keep pushing my name in front of your blanket statement's about ALL TITAN OWNER'S SPECIALLY THAT SKUP GUY say blah blah.
> 
> The fact is, the rational base of titan owner's fully admit that titan has become irrelevant, in fact, most of us have been saying this since 780 released. Yes, they were, and still are over priced, yes 290X beat's it in many(almost all) situations. I of all people have not contested the 290x's power since launch(just it's temps). I'm mostly sitting back w/ my popcorn watching the benching unfold. Still waiting on that 5760x1080 competition in the Vs. thread.
> 
> you may continue your regularly scheduled nvidia bashing. Just remember, Maxwell is around the corner, then after that hopefully AMD's 20Nm is around the corner. Thus is the cycle of the GPU. Welcome to computers.


Irrelevant is not the best term. The 780 at $500 is still a good purchase. The titan is still debatebly the best card on the market, but the price to performance ratio is a little....off


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Irrelevant is not the best term. The 780 at $500 is still a good purchase. The titan is still debatebly the best card on the market, but the price to performance ratio is a little....off


What is the best term? *JUST A LITTLE?!*






























btw, what ever happened to that Stay Puft guy and his quad cpu quad 290x setup? His build log has gone dormant.


----------



## SeeThruHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Irrelevant is not the best term. The 780 at $500 is still a good purchase. The titan is still debatebly the best card on the market, but the price to performance ratio is a little....off


I'm thanking the 290x for bringing down the price of the 780 Classified. Going to be picking up 2.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeeThruHead*
> 
> I'm thanking the 290x for bringing down the price of the 780 Classified. Going to be picking up 2.


that's a great way to look @ it. Nvidia was able to get away with bending people over due to zero competition in the market. Now AMD has put enough power out that nvidia is slashing prices by quite a bit. Will be interesting to see if 780Ti really end's up being 2,880 core 3gb card. That should bring some interesting competition to the table, & dethrone titan from all of it's records.


----------



## Vesku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrFPS*
> 
> Who is beating who?
> Not here, huh?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/872945/top-30-3d-mark-13-fire-strike-scores/2680#post_21097857
> 
> Or here.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1406832/single-gpu-firestrike-top-30
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/1+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/2+gpu
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/hall-of-fame-2/fire+strike+3dmark+score+performance+preset/version+1.1/3+gpu
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1235557/official-top-30-heaven-benchmark-4-0-scores
> 
> I think your wrong, and this is more than enough proof. Look at the clock speeds, they almost clocked exactly the same, and yet who has the higher score? 780. Dont show me anymore reviews, I've read them all.
> Im beginning to wonder! Do you have personal experience, or you just going by what you read?


When did 3DMark actually become a playable video game? Link to reviews? ;p


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> that's a great way to look @ it. Nvidia was able to get away with bending people over due to zero competition in the market. Now AMD has put enough power out that nvidia is slashing prices by quite a bit. Will be interesting to see if 780Ti really end's up being 2,880 core 3gb card. That should bring some interesting competition to the table, & dethrone titan from all of it's records.


I wonder though. Are there really that many people buying 290X's, or do the yields suck and AMD can't keep up with any kind of demand. It seems like their having incredible trouble keeping these reference models on the shelves, i cant imagine how stock will be for non-reference models. Wonder how the 780ti stock is going to be in comparison


----------



## Gunderman456

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> I wonder though. Are there really that many people buying 290X's, or do the yields suck and AMD can't keep up with any kind of demand. It seems like their having incredible trouble keeping these reference models on the shelves, i cant imagine how stock will be for non-reference models. Wonder how the 780ti stock is going to be in comparison


Yeah, almost like a paper launch.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gunderman456*
> 
> Yeah, almost like a paper launch.


The 42 members (and growing) of the OCN 290X owners club might disagree with you on that one


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> What is the best term? *JUST A LITTLE?!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw, what ever happened to that Stay Puft guy and his quad cpu quad 290x setup? His build log has gone dormant.


It is only 2 cpus


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I'll ask you the same. What experience do you have with high-end gpu's in general?
> 
> Low-end gpu talk that way -->


Lets start with this asinine post first. I will have to lump that first line with your second post below. I have enough experience with OCing GPU high and low. And your experience is greatly lacking. You spend money for what you deem to be the best but lack the knowledge to build it yourself. I would rather not knock you for how your machine came into existence, I prefer to be nice. I OCed my computer myself, no auto-OC at all. I got 4.96ghz on a H55 stable and as high as 5.2ghz login. Again did this on my own. What have you accomplished with your computer? Of course I don't think I can trust you to be honest, so don't bother.

The last line of that post is a bit more bothersome and speaks to the kind of kid you are. Elitist attitudes are not becoming of a real man. And seeing this post of yours and that Alatar posted a few down I wonder *HOW DID THIS NOT WARRANT A DELETION AND A WARNING OR TEMPORARY BAN !!!*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Anyone can do research online. Having hands on experience with the high-end gpu's you are boasting about means a hell of a lot more.


And what about your experience says that the 290X isn't able to beat the 780? See your flaw?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> And what experience do you have with the 290x? *Truth is it is early yet for boasting.* The 780s didn't gun out of the gate. Takes time for drivers and owner experience to show the potential or lack thereof. Besides most are probably basing their opinion on the day one world record post of the 290x with around 300 MHz less than titan, albeit quad CF SLI.


OK so I reposted my comment that your seem warranted your infantile one. At no point did I say I had experience with either nor did I lay claim to a victor. I pointed out that it takes more than 3 days to crown a champion in the current GPU wars and that even the 780 took a number of days to unseat the Titan. And then I gave a reason for why some might think the 290X was the faster card, but I did not say one way or the other if it was avalid reason for the assertion. AND lastly look at the bolded line, that is the voice of reason and experience son. TAKE NOTES.

Edit: I plan to purchase a 290X in January. Funds should be enough by then.


----------



## skupples

Some of you need to chill out me thinks. Bragging about CPU icing? Meh just so very meh. Grate bro you must be the only person t not auto oc.

Seems the same people always lead us into thread locking and cleaning recently.


----------



## Devnant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> And what experience do you have with the 290x? Truth is it is early yet for boasting. The 780s didn't gun out of the gate. Takes time for drivers and owner experience to show the potential or lack thereof. Besides most are probably basing their opinion on the day one world record post of the 290x with around 300 MHz less than titan, albeit quad CF SLI.


World record with tesselation off, I'll grant you that. 290x is the fastest zombified card out there with TESSELATION OFF.

Now how about an official futuremark validated score with both cards doing the same thing, eh? Including tesselation, of course. Guess we'll have to wait a bit...


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Hey I got 4.7GHz out of my 4930K all by myself!! Who's giving me a cookie???


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> World record with tesselation off, I'll grant you that. 290x is the fastest zombified card out there with TESSELATION OFF.
> 
> Now how about an official futuremark validated score with both cards doing the same thing, eh? Including tesselation, of course. Guess we'll have to wait a bit...


I wasn't saying that I agreed to its authenticity just that it may be why some say or believe the 290X to be the faster card. Many have mentioned it is likely due to CF scaling>SLI Scaling. I could care really. Right now 290X, 780 , Titan and soon 780Ti will all suffice for great gameplay. I don't feel the need to place anyone in the losing side or team. Lets just play the game.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> World record with tesselation off, I'll grant you that. 290x is the fastest zombified card out there with TESSELATION OFF.
> 
> Now how about an official futuremark validated score with both cards doing the same thing, eh? Including tesselation, of course. Guess we'll have to wait a bit...


Can you find where it said his tessellation was off?


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> That's not actually true @ all... You can monitor each card's Vram separately in all these monitoring tools. Not sure about GPU-Z though... It doesn't really make sense that it would add the two card's vram together, as that's not how sli or xfire works. The ram is mirrored, not additive. I'll brb, i'm going to confirm that's not how gpu-z functions.
> 
> The reason his PrecX show's that obscene number is because he has it set to boot on windows load, and has crashed, thus requires a restart before properly reading. @least that's the most common reason for miss-read of vram on precX.
> 
> edit: After loading into multiple different games & then checking GPU-Z mem reader, it DOES NOT add the two card's values together, @least on nv. Which make's sense, as xfire/sli does not combine both card's ram amount, it simply mirrors them.


That's common knowledge. However, MSI Afterburner DOES combine the memory of your two cards. I've owned Quad Titans, Quad 7970s, and Tri-6970s. All of which show the combined memory usage of the current game in use, combined, amongst ALL cards.

Afterburner will show the total memory usage that the game is making use of.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1645560

What I will say however, is that this MAY not be the case amongst all versions, but it is what I and others have noticed in many versions in the past.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> That's common knowledge. However, MSI Afterburner DOES combine the memory of your two cards.


gpu-z did the same thing for my xfire 7950's. Said i would be using 4gb of 6gb in bf3, for example


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Can you find where it said his tessellation was off?


It's a HWBot score....

It's a given his tessellation was off.


----------



## Durquavian

Seeing how I am a poor OCN member I can not say if or not by this:

Its that last line that I don't quite understand : non standard ...


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The truth is that unless you count hwbot scores with tesselation disabled for the AMD cards the 290X has not yet been shown to come close to Titan bench scores, let alone beat them.
> 
> Could possibly have something to do with Hawaii beign around on par with Titan clock for clock (depending on the application a bit obviously though) and having a lower OCing ceiling.


Not sure where you get that from. There are users in the 290X thread that are hitting 1300+ on water and above.


----------



## Devnant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Can you find where it said his tessellation was off?


Because turning off tesselation is allowed by Hwbot's rules. See here:
http://hwbot.org/news/9039_application_52_rules/

Also here:
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=258125

On the other hand, Futuremark disallows tesselation tweaking. see here:
http://www.3dmark.com/support/troubleshooting-my-results/

So those 290x "world records" were not really valid. We will only know if 290x is the new king once valid scores start showing up on Futuremark's Hall of Fame.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Anyone can do research online. Having hands on experience with the high-end gpu's you are boasting about means a hell of a lot more.


A GPU is a GPU. As I said before, I've owned Quad Titans, Quad 7970s, Tri 6970s, and currently I'm on a Classy 780 until the 780 Ti hits, and I must say that you can gain experience on lower end cards as well. There is no need to sit on a high horse and think that because you own a high end GPU, that you have more experience with GPUs than someone who doesn't. And believe it or not, reading CAN teach you a lot. After all, isn't that what we all come here to do? To share our stories and experiences with each given GPU? I'd say that is just as valuable as anything. Software overclocking one GPU is the same as any other. When it begins to differentiate is when you start with vmodding.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> Because turning off tesselation is allowed by Hwbot's rules. See here:
> http://hwbot.org/news/9039_application_52_rules/
> 
> Also here:
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=258125
> 
> On the other hand, Futuremark disallows tesselation tweaking. see here:
> http://www.3dmark.com/support/troubleshooting-my-results/
> 
> So those 290x "world records" were not really valid. We will only know if 290x is the new king once valid scores start showing up on Futuremark's Hall of Fame.


The world records were just as valid as any...

That's like saying that winning a championship in drag racing is irrelevant because you didn't win it at the manufacturer's sanctioned race. HWBot has its own world records, and frankly they're more well respected than Futuremark's.

Why? Because HWBot is a haven for hardcore tweakers and enthusiasts by definition, thus the users there are more qualified and adept at overclocking than the general Futuremark poster.

As such, I would take the HWbot records more seriously. Futuremark can easily be thwarted, and it's very easy to cheat and go unnoticed. HWBot is eliminating that variable, therefore the best overclockers win.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> Because turning off tesselation is allowed by Hwbot's rules. See here:
> http://hwbot.org/news/9039_application_52_rules/
> 
> Also here:
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=258125
> 
> On the other hand, Futuremark disallows tesselation tweaking. see here:
> http://www.3dmark.com/support/troubleshooting-my-results/
> 
> So those 290x "world records" were not really valid. We will only know if 290x is the new king once valid scores start showing up on Futuremark's Hall of Fame.


Look at the 3dmark performance benches in here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1436635/ocn-gk110-vs-hawaii-bench-off-thread

You probably wont trust anything i say because you don't want to be wrong, but i have my driver 3d settings to "Use application settings" when running any bench

My theory: this quad crossfire benchmark was obviously done before the card released and these guys had early access. AMD probably only let them bench/publish the 3dmark performance score because thats all they had time to optimize in their drivers. Just my theory anyway, because my card performs well in that bench.


----------



## Devnant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> The world records were just as valid as any...
> 
> That's like saying that winning a championship in drag racing is irrelevant because you didn't win it at the manufacturer's sanctioned race. HWBot has its own world records, and frankly they're more well respected than Futuremark's.
> 
> Why? Because HWBot is a haven for hardcore tweakers and enthusiasts by definition, thus the users there are more qualified and adept at overclocking than the general Futuremark poster.
> 
> As such, I would take the HWbot records more seriously. Futuremark can easily be thwarted, and it's very easy to cheat and go unnoticed. HWBot is eliminating that variable, therefore the best overclockers win.


Sorry. Can't take seriously scores where both cards are not actually doing the same thing. It's like comparing benchmarks with antialising OFF on one card, and ON on another.

Let's just call it a Hwbot world record, even if not validated by Futuremark. I'll wait myself for validated results on Futuremark before saying the 290x is the fastest card out there.


----------



## DampMonkey

Compare this to other cards http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7397431

Can you tell if tess is on or off?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> Compare this to other cards http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7397431
> 
> Can you tell if tess is on or off?


That guy should get ahold of hinself I mean saying those scores aren't valid is as valid as saying nvidia scores aren't valid due to LOD bias manipulations.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> That guy should get ahold of hinself I mean saying those scores aren't valid is as valid as saying nvidia scores aren't valid due to LOD bias manipulations.


At any rate it is too early to tell the clear winner. Most are still learning what their cards can do. I figure by next week we will know where the 290X stands. Give these guys another weekend, and some like Szeged their first.


----------



## Noobism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> Sorry. Can't take seriously scores where both cards are not actually doing the same thing. It's like comparing benchmarks with antialising OFF on one card, and ON on another.
> 
> Let's just call it a Hwbot world record, even if not validated by Futuremark. I'll wait myself for validated results on Futuremark before saying the 290x is the fastest card out there.


huh?


----------



## FtW 420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vesku*
> 
> When did 3DMark actually become a playable video game? Link to reviews? ;p


Not playable like a game, but games get boring. I was a gamer a few years back, but have more fun with 3dmark these days.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> World record with tesselation off, I'll grant you that. 290x is the fastest zombified card out there with TESSELATION OFF.
> 
> Now how about an official futuremark validated score with both cards doing the same thing, eh? Including tesselation, of course. Guess we'll have to wait a bit...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devnant*
> 
> Because turning off tesselation is allowed by Hwbot's rules. See here:
> http://hwbot.org/news/9039_application_52_rules/
> 
> Also here:
> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=258125
> 
> On the other hand, Futuremark disallows tesselation tweaking. see here:
> http://www.3dmark.com/support/troubleshooting-my-results/
> 
> So those 290x "world records" were not really valid. We will only know if 290x is the new king once valid scores start showing up on Futuremark's Hall of Fame.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> That guy should get ahold of hinself I mean saying those scores aren't valid is as valid as saying nvidia scores aren't valid due to LOD bias manipulations.


This ^, Using LOD with nvidia changes the look & detail a lot more than disabling tessellation, but futuremark doesn't have a way to detect it, so all valid, even when details are lowered to the point where things turn into transparent squares. At futuremark the scores you see might be untweaked or tweaked to the point where nothing looks the same, at least at hwbot you can pretty much count on all scores being overclocked & tweaked to the max from either side, as well as being quicker to block bugged scores.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Hey I got 4.7GHz out of my 4930K all by myself!! Who's giving me a cookie???


----------



## unimatrixzero

I got a Really nice Close up of an Actual R9 290X that I wanted to share with you Over clocker's.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> That's common knowledge. However, MSI Afterburner DOES combine the memory of your two cards. I've owned Quad Titans, Quad 7970s, and Tri-6970s. All of which show the combined memory usage of the current game in use, combined, amongst ALL cards.
> 
> Afterburner will show the total memory usage that the game is making use of.
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1645560
> 
> What I will say however, is that this MAY not be the case amongst all versions, but it is what I and others have noticed in many versions in the past.


That's a post from over two years ago man. This is non issue in MSI-AB now, you can monitor each card separately these day's.

I do how ever feel like I remember this back in the day, but it's not been the case in @least a year.

I don't really see how owning any of that stuff reflect's your knowledge for the topic. Also, if your MSI-AB is STILL doing this for you, you are some how operating on a version that should of self-terminated age's ago. Like I said, for quite awhile now RIVA Tuner(msiab/precx) has been able to chart each card individually.


----------



## Avonosac

Not sure where else to put it, but if you're scoping for one of these... The egg has the BF4 bundle at 580 + 8.50 shipping right HERE.

Cheers!


----------



## outofmyheadyo

I found a nice cooler review of the 290x sums it up nicely, hope this is not a repost


----------



## Fniz92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> I found a nice cooler review of the 290x sums it up nicely, hope this is not a repost


You people have som weird ass humor


----------



## Final8ty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gibbo;25237022*
> The blurred out card is the new card coming Tuesday 5am from AMD.
> 
> A card which I've now managed scores even beating the R290X OC with, due to newer drivers.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534&page=9


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Wait until Mantle hits, and we should see some insane numbers; I believe EA just confirmed 15 more titles using the new Mantle enabled Frostbite engine.


I'll see your "wait until Mantle hits" comment with "Wait until Maxwell and G-Sync hits".

If you base all your purchases off what MIGHT BE and wait for it, you will never be happy and never buy anything.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> That's a post from over two years ago man. This is non issue in MSI-AB now, you can monitor each card separately these day's.
> 
> I do how ever feel like I remember this back in the day, but it's not been the case in @least a year.
> 
> I don't really see how owning any of that stuff reflect's your knowledge for the topic. Also, if your MSI-AB is STILL doing this for you, you are some how operating on a version that should of self-terminated age's ago. Like I said, for quite awhile now RIVA Tuner(msiab/precx) has been able to chart each card individually.


Regardless of your experiences, there have been others here that associate the same memory parsing in AB that I do. Referring to how owning high end GPUs for 12+ years doesn't reflect knowledge on the topic... If you really have that opinion, I would have to ask you why you refer to your prior ownership in your posts.

If you haven't heard of this issue, and since you want to call me out for using an older post, I'll give you one that was posted only mere months ago, on a prominent GPU only forum.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378839

The simple fact is that this issue is very recent, and for you not to be aware of it considering the thread you're posting in, is unique, so there's some enlightenment







.

Edit: Perhaps since you're on an Nvidia rig and haven't experienced an AMD crossfire setup as of late, you may have been unaware of it. However, I experienced the same issue back with my Quad Titans back in Feb.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> Regardless of your experiences, there have been others here that associate the same memory parsing in AB that I do. Referring to how owning high end GPUs for 12+ years doesn't reflect knowledge on the topic... If you really have that opinion, I would have to ask you why you refer to your prior ownership in your posts.
> 
> If you haven't heard of this issue, and since you want to call me out for using an older post, I'll give you one that was posted only mere months ago, on a prominent GPU only forum.
> 
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378839
> 
> The simple fact is that this issue is very recent, and for you not to be aware of it considering the thread you're posting in, is unique, so there's some enlightenment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Edit: Perhaps since you're on an Nvidia rig and haven't experienced an AMD crossfire setup as of late, you may have been unaware of it. However, I experienced the same issue back with my Quad Titans back in Feb.


Meh, it's just strange... Iv'e been on both sides of the debate, & as long as the monitoring programs have tracked both card's individually I haven't had the issue. Though, I didn't start using MSI-AB until the voltage crack's, so that might has something to do with it. Msi-AB has been inferior for most of it's existence until recently.


----------



## motherpuncher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Final8ty*
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18551534&page=9


Yeah he said it was the new drivers, someone on the thread asked if it was an improvement on all GCn cards but hasn't gotten an answer yet. I'd like to know too, that'd be great. And after seeing the crossfire results with these new cards, I might just skip crossfire on my 7970 and get 2 290's once they make custom cooling solutions.


----------



## MarvinDessica

Curious, do the red stripes light up?


----------



## LtMatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> Yeah he said it was the new drivers, someone on the thread asked if it was an improvement on all GCn cards but hasn't gotten an answer yet. I'd like to know too, that'd be great. And after seeing the crossfire results with these new cards, I might just skip crossfire on my 7970 and get 2 290's once they make custom cooling solutions.


I was the guy. The guy who asked that question. I'm not afraid to ask important questions.

Here's hoping my 7950 crossfire setup gets a boost.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> I found a nice cooler review of the 290x sums it up nicely, hope this is not a repost


Get out of my head yo


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarvinDessica*
> 
> Curious, do the red stripes light up?


No.


----------



## motherpuncher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LtMatt*
> 
> I was the guy. The guy who asked that question. I'm not afraid to ask important questions.
> 
> Here's hoping my 7950 crossfire setup gets a boost.


Awesome, well if you get an answer let us know.


----------



## LtMatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> Awesome, well if you get an answer let us know.


Will do my brother. You and me both hoping for a 12.11 never settle type scenario. Sadly i think we'll both be disappointed.


----------



## motherpuncher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LtMatt*
> 
> Will do my brother. You and me both hoping for a 12.11 never settle type scenario. Sadly i think we'll both be disappointed.


yeah maybe, but it makes me wonder what about the new cards is so different architecturally that our cards wouldn't benefit as well?


----------



## LtMatt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> yeah maybe, but it makes me wonder what about the new cards is so different architecturally that our cards wouldn't benefit as well?


Fair point and i agree. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Faksnima

amazon just had the r9 290 instock for 469.99. i went ahead and ordered it. should be arriving on launch day. ill refuse delivery if the reviews suck







. $115 in amazon gift cards/promos made the card $391 after tax. couldn't pass near titan performance for 390 bucks.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faksnima*
> 
> amazon just had the r9 290 instock for 469.99. i went ahead and ordered it. should be arriving on launch day. ill refuse delivery if the reviews suck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . $115 in amazon gift cards/promos made the card $391 after tax. couldn't pass near titan performance for 390 bucks.


plus its way way louder for then titan, and they dont ask any extra money for the noise


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> plus its way way louder for then titan, and they dont ask any extra money for the noise


Louder/hotter decimates 780, yep at 100 cheaper LEL.

Your 780 is whimpering, i can hear it.


----------



## skupples

I hope this price war extends into the next generation. I have this weird feeling that amd's 20nm may not come to market until late 2015, which would give nvidia another year of price gouging if they get 20nm maxwell out mid 2014.


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Louder/hotter decimates 780, yep at 100 cheaper LEL.
> 
> Your 780 is whimpering, i can hear it.


Your notion of an R9 290X "decimating" a GTX 780 is laughable to me. After getting my new GTX 780 Classified last night, I did a little OC'ing, and I was beating many of the 290X scores I saw posted, and was only 400 points short of the one that is posted here on OCN. All with stock voltages and via air cooling. Given that it has an ACX cooler, it was very quiet, unlike the R9 290X "leaf blower".

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, wait until the after market coolers come out for the R9 290X ... I hear that all the time ... about as often as I hear as "I can't wait to actually find a place that has stock on the 290X" and "Wait until you run it on a $3500 4K monitor", and "The 290X is cheaper."

Well, I don't care about $120. Even at minimum wage, I've wasted more money than that just reading people say "wait, wait, wait". You can buy and take deliver of a GTX 780 Classified right now (or if you don't mind losing a couple FPS, get a regular GTX 780 that is $50 CHEAPER, and actually USE IT NOW.

Having a R9 290X "on order" means that it scores 0 FPS on ALL GAMES ... with or without Mantle, which is as of right now, Vaporware.

I'm sure in a two or three weeks ... when people can ACTUALLY get a hold of the card, the R9 290X will be a great card, for people who won't overclock it much (for the stock cooler), or water cool it ... but then again, so is a GTX 780. As far as after market coolers, yup, in a month or six weeks, the will be a Godsend to the R9 290X for the casual overclocker ... just as the GTX 780 Classified is ... but we have yet to see what a GOOD COOLER on an R9 290X will be.

Bottom line, the R9 290X has GREAT POTENTIAL, but then again, I'd rather actually play a game and use the card, than sit around all month waiting for promises of delivery and future API's and promises of better cooler, etc, etc.

Don't worry, I think I'm done with all these R9 290X threads .... they are pointless. I've already spent my money and will enjoy my card. It was money well spent, IMO, and I have it NOW and overclocked it to 1293MHz on air and can barely hear it, even at 70% fan. Enjoy your R9 290X and waiting.


----------



## evensen007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> Bottom line, the R9 290X has GREAT POTENTIAL, but then again, I'd rather actually play a game and use the card, than sit around all month waiting for promises of delivery and future API's and promises of better cooler, etc, etc.
> 
> *Don't worry, I think I'm done with all these R9 290X threads .... they are pointless. I've already spent my money and will enjoy my card. It was money well spent, IMO, and I have it NOW and overclocked it to 1293MHz on air and can barely hear it, even at 70% fan. Enjoy your R9 290X and waiting*.


I'm surprised it took this long. Go enjoy your new card; please quit trolling Radeon review threads.


----------



## amd655

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> Your notion of an R9 290X "decimating" a GTX 780 is laughable to me. After getting my new GTX 780 Classified last night, I did a little OC'ing, and I was beating many of the 290X scores I saw posted, and was only 400 points short of the one that is posted here on OCN. All with stock voltages and via air cooling. Given that it has an ACX cooler, it was very quiet, unlike the R9 290X "leaf blower".
> 
> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, wait until the after market coolers come out for the R9 290X ... I hear that all the time ... about as often as I hear as "I can't wait to actually find a place that has stock on the 290X" and "Wait until you run it on a $3500 4K monitor", and "The 290X is cheaper."
> 
> Well, I don't care about $120. Even at minimum wage, I've wasted more money than that just reading people say "wait, wait, wait". You can buy and take deliver of a GTX 780 Classified right now (or if you don't mind losing a couple FPS, get a regular GTX 780 that is $50 CHEAPER, and actually USE IT NOW.
> 
> Having a R9 290X "on order" means that it scores 0 FPS on ALL GAMES ... with or without Mantle, which is as of right now, Vaporware.
> 
> I'm sure in a two or three weeks ... when people can ACTUALLY get a hold of the card, the R9 290X will be a great card, for people who won't overclock it much (for the stock cooler), or water cool it ... but then again, so is a GTX 780. As far as after market coolers, yup, in a month or six weeks, the will be a Godsend to the R9 290X for the casual overclocker ... just as the GTX 780 Classified is ... but we have yet to see what a GOOD COOLER on an R9 290X will be.
> 
> Bottom line, the R9 290X has GREAT POTENTIAL, but then again, I'd rather actually play a game and use the card, than sit around all month waiting for promises of delivery and future API's and promises of better cooler, etc, etc.
> 
> Don't worry, I think I'm done with all these R9 290X threads .... they are pointless. I've already spent my money and will enjoy my card. It was money well spent, IMO, and I have it NOW and overclocked it to 1293MHz on air and can barely hear it, even at 70% fan. Enjoy your R9 290X and waiting.


Learn to read before typing up a large essay, R9 290, not 290x, yes it decimates it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1439910/r9-290-wow#post_21128846


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd655*
> 
> Louder/hotter decimates 780, yep at 100 cheaper LEL.
> 
> Your 780 is whimpering, i can hear it.


I dont have one anymore, I sold it for 500€ the day they dropped the prices


----------



## tinmann

Okay this is a R9-290x review thread but I'm missing something here.............Reviews ! I must have missed them, let me just go back through 200+ pages because I just know there is a review in there I missed somewhere.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tinmann*
> 
> Okay this is a R9-290x review thread but I'm missing something here.............Reviews ! I must have missed them, let me just go back through 200+ pages because I just know there is a review in there I missed somewhere.


Go to the first page for the reviews.


----------



## skupples

Linus is a salesman & nothing more. Just remember that he is not as independent as he would like people to believe. He is 100% attached to the NCIX hip in anything he does. LAN or Techtip.

that being said, both are great units. I just didn't have the luxury of waiting a year for cheaper performance. Now I have plenty of time to save for 20nm, will probably go AMD if mantle ends up taking all of nv's game contracts like they think it will do.

*it's being used in Star Citizen, which will probably consume my free time for years.*


----------



## CallsignVega

You guys have to admit this has been a pretty poor launch as far as stock on hand goes. Has anyone been able to buy one (MSRP, not price gouged) in the last week after the initial small stock?


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You guys have to admit this has been a pretty poor launch as far as stock on hand goes. Has anyone been able to buy one (MSRP, not price gouged) in the last week after the initial small stock?


Agreed. Do we know any sales numbers?


----------



## CallsignVega

No idea, but I haven't been able to find any in stock to purchase. Need to do some testing on these bad boys!


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> No idea, but I haven't been able to find any in stock to purchase. Need to do some testing on these bad boys!


Just get 290s. They will still be extremely fast!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Just get 290s. They will still be extremely fast!


You're suggesting that to Vega??

He's going to get 4 290x with blocks, I bet.


----------



## motherpuncher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> You're suggesting that to Vega??
> 
> He's going to get 4 290x with blocks, I bet.


haha, yeah very true


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You guys have to admit this has been a pretty poor launch as far as stock on hand goes. Has anyone been able to buy one (MSRP, not price gouged) in the last week after the initial small stock?


Yup. I'm very tempted now to just say screw the 290x and get the 290 instead. 5% decrease in performance is still a large improvement over my 680's. And I'll of course get two of them..lol


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> Yup. I'm very tempted now to just say screw the 290x and get the 290 instead. 5% decrease in performance is still a large improvement over my 680's. And I'll of course get two of them..lol


With the extra money you save you can get aftermarket cooling and still come out ahead!


----------



## Kazumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DampMonkey*
> 
> With the extra money you save you can get aftermarket cooling and still come out ahead!


Yea, that's the general idea. Been trying to get a 290x since release and I'm just tired of waiting around. Not sure what the stock issue is..haha


----------



## PontiacGTX

Check online deals r9 290x are back(bf4.ed)


----------



## ragzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kazumi*
> 
> Yea, that's the general idea. Been trying to get a 290x since release and I'm just tired of waiting around. Not sure what the stock issue is..haha


Interestingly, I was able to get one in Australia no probs at all.







For the first time ever!


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> You're suggesting that to Vega??
> 
> He's going to get 4 290x with blocks, I bet.


Ohhh yeahhh, this should be GOOD...


----------



## 2010rig

Speaking of Vega, anyone see his new video?


----------



## H4rd5tyl3

lmao


----------



## Wildcard36qs

That's...hilarious and sad at the same time lol


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Just imagine if he went quadfire.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Speaking of Vega, anyone see his new video?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


And you wonder why everyone thinks you're a Nvidia fanboi (of course you are but...). You only post videos and benches that are inflammatory/negative against AMD. You should learn from my example: I don't post negatively in Nvidia nor Intel threads. I don't want them doing the same in AMD threads.


----------



## tpi2007

Meanwhile...

Tom's Hardware: Fixing The Radeon R9 290 With Arctic's Accelero Xtreme III

For the record, I agree that the stock cooler is crap and that they should provide a better solution in the future ([S|A] says they paid attention to all the criticism and will indeed improve for the future), but this is an enthusiast forum. Nobody discusses whether stock coolers on Intel or AMD CPUs are good or not, it's a given a third party cooler is going to be used, be it air or a closed loop cooler, and this is not talking about full custom water cooling, just ready to go after market solutions. When it comes to GPU's things are a little behind in that there is no GPU socket standardization or clearance guidelines yet, but there are quite a few solutions out there, including the solution above, adapting a closed loop water cooler or going full custom water cooling. There is a problem for non enthusiasts while customized AIB cards aren't for sale yet, but let's not exaggerate the problem, especially when it comes to enthusiasts.


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Speaking of Vega, anyone see his new video?


LOL. Some of us splurge for cases. With lids. 'Cause, you know, that helps. A lot.

Where's the fund to help him out? Poor kid, havin' to run open-bench.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> LOL. Some of us splurge for cases. With lids. 'Cause, you know, that helps. A lot.
> 
> Where's the fund to help him out? Poor kid, havin' to run open-bench.


i dont think you know vega if you think he is a "poor kid that has to run an open bench"


----------



## infranoia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i dont think you know vega if you think he is a "poor kid that has to run an open bench"


I know Vega enough to have my tongue in cheek, which I thought was obvious. But for all the cries about noise levels (and water clockers running GPUs on air), I guess appropriate case flow (and sound dampening) is a lost art any more.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> I know Vega enough to have my tongue in cheek, which I thought was obvious. But for all the cries about noise levels (and water clockers running GPUs on air), I guess appropriate case flow (and sound dampening) is a lost art any more.


Largely, yes. Because when you're case is cooled by radiators with 120mm or 140mm fans going slow, you don't need to sound dampen the case.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Speaking of Vega, anyone see his new video?


I missed the joke.... Maybe because I am tired.

What is funny about this video?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infranoia*
> 
> LOL. Some of us splurge for cases. With lids. 'Cause, you know, that helps. A lot.
> 
> Where's the fund to help him out? Poor kid, havin' to run open-bench.


IKR, I will start a "Let's help Vega get a case" fund.

I'll put $5 towards it, you in?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i dont think you know vega if you think he is a "poor kid that has to run an open bench"


I don't think you understand sarcasm.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I don't think you understand sarcasm.


i missed it in that post


----------



## cjp4eva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I missed the joke.... Maybe because I am tired.
> 
> What is funny about this video?


The cards are louder than the vacuum


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> IKR, I will start a "Let's help Vega get a case" fund.
> 
> I'll put $5 towards it, you in?
> I don't think you understand sarcasm.


I gotta bout tree fitty.


----------



## Cubeman

Enjoying my 290x very much. It's a power hungry sucker though. Gotta upgrade from my 750watt to a 1000 watt if i want to overclock.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cubeman*
> 
> Enjoying my 290x very much. It's a power hungry sucker though. Gotta upgrade from my 750watt to a 1000 watt if i want to overclock.


do you get an employee discount at MC on top of the already awesome deals there?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cubeman*
> 
> Enjoying my 290x very much. It's a power hungry sucker though. Gotta upgrade from my 750watt to a 1000 watt if i want to overclock.


You must have a pretty crappy 750W if you can't run a single 290X on it.


----------



## nitrubbb

do silent cases help at all with the noise?

(Silencio 352) for example.


----------



## DampMonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitrubbb*
> 
> do silent cases help at all with the noise?
> 
> (Silencio 352) for example.


Short answer, yes. Covering up holes in the case and sound dampening material will help, but its not the end-all solution


----------



## pokpok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cubeman*
> 
> Enjoying my 290x very much. It's a power hungry sucker though. Gotta upgrade from my 750watt to a 1000 watt if i want to overclock.


The 290x at peak is around 304 you dont need an upgrade even if your overclock. Unless you overclock the cpu and gpu and have a ton of cd roms and hdds,20 fans and a cheap 750w, then maybe.


----------

