# Fans!!!! The most complete and comprehensive array of tests and benchmarks



## Cyclops

Spoiler: System #1 - 120 mm Test Rig













Processor: Intel Core i7 920 (C0/C1 Revision) - 3.6 GHZ (180 x 20) - 1.42 v
Motherboard: Asus Maximus II Extreme LGA1366
Memory: 3 x 2GB (6 GB) Mushkin Redline DDR-3 1442 MHz @ 7-8-7-24
Graphics card: ASUS nVidia GeForce 210 (Passively cooled)
SSD: Corsair Force 3 60 GB
Power Supply: Seasonic X-Series SS-460FL (Fanless)
Chassis: Lian Li Pitstop PC-T60
CPU Cooler: Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.C Black Edition
Thermal Interface (TIM): Xigmatek Freezing Point G4718



Spoiler: 120mm Fan #1 - Prolimatech Red Vortex 12 LED































Spoiler: 120mm Fan #2 - Scythe DFS123812-3000 Ultra Kaze



























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #3 - Delta AFC1212D-PWM

























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #4 - Scythe Kaze Jyuni SY1225SL12SH Slipstream



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #5 - Corsair CF12S25SH12A















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #6 - Yate Loon D12SM-12















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #7 - Rosewill RFA-120-BL





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #8 - Cougar CF-V12HP Vortex





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #9 - Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #10 - Noctua NF-S12B























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #11 - Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B5AP-15



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #12 - Noctua NF-P12























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #13 - Phanteks PH-F120S





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #14 - Noctua NF-F12

























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #15 - Silverstone SST-FN121-B



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #16 - Silverstone FM121



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #17 - Corsair SP120 High Performance Edition

































Spoiler: 120mm Fan #18 - Scythe Kaze-Jyuni SY1225SL12M SlipStream



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #19 - Aerocool Shark Devil Red Edition A1225L12



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #20 - Cougar CF-V12HB Vortex





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #21 - Corsair AF120 Performance Edition

































Spoiler: 120mm Fan #22 - Zalman ZM-F3 ZF1225ASH



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #23 - Scythe Kaze-Jyuni PWM SY1225SL12LM-P SlipStream



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #24 - Enermax T.B.Silence UCTB12N PD1225112L-1





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #25 - Cooler Master Silent Fan 120 S12 R4-S2S-124K-GP

























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #26 - Antec TrueQuiet Pro 120





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #27 - Xigmatek XAF-F1253



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #28 - Xigmatek CLF-F1255



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #29 - Arctic Cooling F12 PWM





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #30 - Arctic Cooling F12 Pro PWM























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #31 - Arctic Cooling F12 PWM CO





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #32 - Xigmatek XLF-F1256



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #33 - Delta PFB1212UHE-F00



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #34 - Silverstone Air Penetrator SST-AP122



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #35 - Spire Air Force 120 SP12025N7L4-B-PWM





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #36 - Spire Air Force 120 SP12025N7L3





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #37 - BitFenix Spectre Pro 120























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #38 - Cooler Master SickleFlow 2000 RPM



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #39 - Thermalright X-Silent 120



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #40 - Cougar CF-T12S















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #41 - Gelid Solutions Slim 12 UA Blue FN-FW12SLIMB-15





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #42 - BitFenix Spectre 120



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #43 - Silenx Effizio EFX-12-12



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #44 - Apevia CF12S



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #45 - Logisys CF120GN



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #46 - Xion AXP Alphawing AXP-GF120_BL



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #47 - IPCQueen IPC-12025



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #48 - Logisys CF120DCA



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #49 - Kingwin CF-012LB



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #50 - MassCool BLD-12025V1R

















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #51 - Apevia CF12SL-UBL



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #52 - Phobya Nano-G 12 PWM Silent



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #53 - Fractal Design Silent Series R2















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #54 - Silverstone SST-FN121-P



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #55 - Noctua NF-S12A PWM



























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #56 - Noctua NF-S12A FLX



























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #57 - Noctua NF-S12A ULN



























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #58 - XSPC Xinruilian 1200 RPM RDL1225S















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #59 - XSPC Xinruilian 1650 RPM RDL1225S















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #60 - XSPC Xinruilian 2000 RPM RDL1225S















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #61 - Corsair SP120 PWM Quiet Edition CO-9050012-WW

























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #62 - Enermax TB Silence UCTB12





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #63 - Noctua NF-F12 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #64 - Cooler Master Turbine Master Mach 1.8





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #65 - Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 PWM





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #66 - Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition CO-9050002-WW

























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #67 - Noctua NF-F12 IndustrialPPC-2000 IP67 PWM























Spoiler: 120mm Fan #68 - Nidec Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B6AP-60















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #69 - EK Vardar F4-120 2200 RPM



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #70 - Delta AUB1212H-CK15















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #71 - Delta PFR1212DHE-SP00















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #72 - Noctua NF-S12B redux-700





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #73 - Cooler Master Blade Master 120



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #74 - Nexus D12SL-12PWM

















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #75 - Thermaltake Thunderblade AF0032



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #76 - Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition CO-9050015-BLED



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #77 - Bitfenix Spectre PWM



















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #78 - Masscool FD12025B1L3-4

















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #79 - Phanteks PH-F120MP





















Spoiler: 120mm Fan #80 - Corsair ML120 Pro


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## Cyclops

Spoiler: Previous Test Bench Results






Spoiler: System #2 - 140 mm Test Rig

















Processor: Intel Core i5 2500K (D2 Revision) - 4.6 GHz (100 x 46) - 1.40 V
Motherboard: MSI Z77A-GD55
Memory: 2 x 2GB (4 GB) Crucial Ballistix DDR-3 1333 MHz @ 9-9-9-24
Graphics card: iGPU (Intel HD 3000)
SSD: Corsair Force 3 60 GB
Power Supply: Seasonic X-Series SS-400FL (Fanless)
Chassis: Lian Li Pitstop PC-T60
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek Prime SD1484
Thermal Interface (TIM): Xigmatek Freezing Point G4718



Spoiler: 140mm Fan #1 - Xigmatek XAF-F1452























Spoiler: 140mm Fan #2 - Arctic Cooling F14 PWM



















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #3 - Phanteks PH-F140TS























Spoiler: 140mm Fan #4 - Thermalright TR TY-150



















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #5 - Rosewill DF1402512SELN-GP















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #6 - Noctua NF-P14















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #7 - Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140























Spoiler: 140mm Fan #8 - Yate Loon D14SH-12















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #9 - NZXT DF1402512SEMN















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #10 - Fractal Design FD-FAN-140















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #11 - Cougar CF-T14S















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #12 - NZXT Performance 140mm Fan FN-140RB



















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #13 - In Win DFS132512L















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #14 - Noctua NF-A15 PWM



























Spoiler: 140mm Fan #15 - Noctua NF-A14 FLX



























Spoiler: 140mm Fan #16 - Noctua NF-A14 ULN




























Spoiler: System #2 - 140 mm Test Rig



Same as 120mm Test Rig



Processor: Intel Core i7 920 (C0/C1 Revision) - 3.6 GHZ (180 x 20) - 1.42 v
Motherboard: Asus Maximus II Extreme LGA1366
Memory: 3 x 2GB (6 GB) Mushkin Redline DDR-3 1442 MHz @ 7-8-7-24
Graphics card: ASUS nVidia GeForce 210 (Passively cooled)
SSD: Corsair Force 3 60 GB
Power Supply: Seasonic X-Series SS-460FL (Fanless)
Chassis: Lian Li Pitstop PC-T60
CPU Cooler: Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.C Black Edition
Thermal Interface (TIM): Xigmatek Freezing Point G4718



Spoiler: 140mm Fan #1 - Noctua NF-P14s redux-900





















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #2 - Noctua NF-A14 PWM





















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #3 - Thermalright TR TY-147A



















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #4 - Corsair A1425L12S OEM















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #5 - Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM





















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #6 - Noctua NF-P14s redux-1200 PWM





















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #7 - Noctua NF-P14s redux-1500 PWM





















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #8 - Antec TwoCool 140



















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #9 - Noctua NF-A14 FLX



























Spoiler: 140mm Fan #10 - Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-2000 IP67 PWM





















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #11 - Lian-Li Li121425QE-4-A OEM















Spoiler: 140mm Fan #12 - Noctua NF-P14s redux-1500 PWM


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## Cyclops

Hello guys and girls.

To start with, I've always been obsessed with fans, trying to get the best ones in my builds. I have looked around and did not find any websites that dedicate themselves to test just fans and rightly so, It wouldn't be that lucrative.

I am in the process of building a website dedicated to just that, maybe expand it later, but fan testing will be the top priority. For now though, I'll stick to OCN's forums.

I have begun testing and I will be updating this thread regularly with the data gathered from these tests.

I plan to build several different rigs to test different sized fans, the one I'm starting with is dedicated to 120 mm fans. The heatsink used in each system will remain the same. The only thing that will change are the fans.

As stated earlier, I only have one spare system that I've dedicated to test 120 mm fans. Hopefully, with enough funding and support, I will build at least two more testing rigs, one for 140 mm fans and another for 92/80 mm fans.

Righto, down to business then, let me walk you through the 120 mm testing rig:

Processor: Intel Core i7 920 (C0/C1 Revision)
Motherboard: Asus Maximus II Extreme
Memory: 3 x 2GB (6 GB) Mushkin Redline DDR-3 1600 MHz
Graphics Card: AMD HD5450 (Passively cooled)
SSD: Corsair Force 3 60GB
Power Supply: Seasonic X-Series SS-460FL (Fanless)
Chassis: Lian-Li Pitstop PC-T60
CPU Cooler: Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.C Black Edition
Thermal Paste: Xigmatek Freezing Point G4718

Prolimatech Sent me a Megahalems Rev.C Black Edition as well as a set of their Red Vortex 12 LED fans, rated for 1600 RPM. On top of those, they've also sent me a set of extended mounting clip to use with thicker 38mm fans and a set of screws required to use this cooler with a LGA2011 motherboard.

Those are the meat and potates of this setup, now let me reveal the BIOS and windows settings:

First of all, the overclock. This CPU has sort of been a pain in the bum as it's overclocking capacity is severely limited. It shouldn't matter though as what's more important is the amount of voltage I'm feeding it. It's running at 3.6 GHz using 1.4-1.42 volts (according to CPU-Z). In this trim, using Prolimatech's fans in push/pull, and with an ambient temperature of around 26 C, the CPU is running at an average of 78 C. Not bad at all as I was expecting somewhere around the 85-90 C mark. The Base Clock / Multiplier ratio for CPU is 180 x 20.

The memory is running at 1442 MHz. The timing for this set of memory is 6-8-6-24 with 1.65 volts, but I didn't manage to get it stable with those timings. As a result of that, I'm using 7-8-7-24.

In the BIOS, I've pretty much disabled anything that is not necessary for the overclock such as Hyper Threading, Virtualization, etc (They are sort of relevant as you might need more voltage to run these features). I have gone one step further and even disabled LAN (Ethernet port) and some other irrelevant features.

The motherboard is using the latest BIOS revision (2101). All spread spectrum settings are disabled. The Load line Calibration is turned on. The voltage set in the BIOS is 1.3875, but as stated earlier, it goes up to 1.42 volts in windows.

The operating system is Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit with the latest updates installed (as of june 25th, 2012).

The torture testing will be done with Prime95 64-bit version 27.7. The FFT size will be 1280K (min and max) to keep the amount of heat generated the same everytime. 1280K was optimal since it used the most power during full load. The test is ran for 5 minutes every single time.

CoreTemp 0.99.8 will be used to monitor the temperatures in each session. An average will be recorded after each test and the ambient temperature will be deducted from that value.

I will try to be as accurate as possible to get the most consistent results. The heatsink and the whole system will be cleaned with a DataVac electric duster before and after each test.

Before running the main torture test, Prime95 will run for 5 minutes to warm the heatsink, after which the main test will commence.

As most of you would know, the performance of any certain fan, depends entirely on where and how you use it. Different heatsinks/radiators have different thickness and fin densities and it's near impossible to test a set of fans in every possible scenario. In my series of tests with 120 mm fans, Prolimatech Megahalems will be used. The distance between each fin layer is 2 mm which is pretty much the same as most other CPU Coolers on the market. I've measured the fin gap on a Noctua NH-C14 and a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ and they are exactly the same as the Megahalems.

Now then, everything I just wrote pretty much involved temperatures and not much else. Worry not though as I will also be measuring the noise levels of each and every fan and maybe later, the voltage required to run these fans at full speed. The chart that I'm going to make will include a simple yet intuitive Performance to Noise ratio section alongside other standard bits and bobs.

I have a variety of tools (Multi-meters, Decibel-meters, etc) available. I will test each of them and determine which one is the most accurate to be used in my tests.

Update #1: I've changed the power supply for the 120mm test rig (Corsair TX850) to a Seasonic X-Series SS-460FL (Fanless) unit. The only moving part in the system will now be the fans on the CPU cooler, allowing accurate dBA measurements. (7/July/2012).

Update #2: I had to change the thermal interface to Xigmatek Freezing Point G4718 since Indigo Xtreme lost its consistency after exposure to high heat levels (CPU temperature over 90C). (28/Sep/2012).

Update #3: 140mm rig finished and first set of fans tested. (5/Oct/2012).

Update #4: GPU in the 120mm Testing rig was changed to a passively cooled HD5450 as the old one (GT 210) died. (20/Feb/2015)

Update #5: Moving forward, all 140mm fans will be tested on the 120mm test rig for direct comparison between the two sizes. (3/Mar/2015).


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## CudaBoy71

Subbed as I am a fan fanatic as well....


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## PR-Imagery

Subbed


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## Cyclops

Alright guys, I've uploaded plenty of pictures which you can find in my second post. I'm finished with my first series of tests with the set of original Prolimatech fans and I have all the data. I need to make a couple of charts and list the performance... something like this:

(Chart Removed)

Maybe a bit more detailed but I need a program to start with. Any suggestions? I've never done this sort of thing so I need help with it.


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## PR-Imagery

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Alright guys, I've uploaded plenty of pictures which you can find in my second post. I'm finished with my first series of tests with the set of original Prolimatech fans and I have all the data. I need to make a couple of charts and list the performance... something like this:
> 
> Maybe a bit more detailed but I need a program to start with. Any suggestions? I've never done this sort of thing so I need help with it.


Excel, OpenOffice maybe. This might be helpful as well http://www.chartgo.com/


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## airdeano

subbed, also..
after watching linus on the longwin with flow-ratings and "sound" testing.
need a comprehensive database..

airdeano


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## Cyclops

Excel has been a pain but I got it to work somewhat. Here are the results for Prolimatech Red Vertex 12 LED fans. I will also be updating the second post with this.



Green = Best / Red = Worst

To calculate Noise to Temperature rating I simply add Delta temperature to Noise and devide it by 10. Lower values are better.

LNA stands for Low Noise Adapter.

As you can see the fan speed is more consistent when they are operated in pull mode. I've tested several other fans and they behave exactly the same.


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## Cyclops

Second 120 mm fan: Scythe DFS123812-3000 Ultra Kaze



Thoughts:

Loud!! but it doesn't bother me.

Fan is rated for 3000 RPM but I never saw anything over 2830 even when connected directly to the PSU.

It can cut your fingers and you will bleed if you're not careful, I know I did. Recommend using a fan grill if employed outside the case.

Great great cooling but for people anal about noise, you best look somewhere else.

As always check post #2 for pictures.

Comparison chart coming soon!!!


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## ohhgourami

Great work so far! Just remember when you post charts up, PLEASE PLEASE properly label the axis. So many reliable sites even fail to do so and it drives me nuts!


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## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Great work so far! Just remember when you post charts up, PLEASE PLEASE properly label the axis. So many reliable sites even fail to do so and it drives me nuts!


That won't be a problem.

I'm making a couple of different charts.

Three for Push, Pull, and Push/Pull performance.

One for just outright best thermal performance.

One for Noise/Temperature performance.

And a few more I have to think about properly.

Feel free to suggest what I other charts I should put in there.


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## Katcilla

Would cost per fan be a possible addition to this?
Either way, this interests me. Keep it up!


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## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katcilla*
> 
> Would cost per fan be a possible addition to this?
> Either way, this interests me. Keep it up!


Cost is a variable I have no control over. It differs from region to region and of course which e/re-tailer you get it from.


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## RX7-2nr

2 fans done, 3452340589 to go









I always like checkout out these reviews where a mass of fans are tested on the same platform.


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## Katcilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Cost is a variable I have no control over. It differs from region to region and of course which e/re-tailer you get it from.


True, but if you find a good source like newegg, prices would give people at least a rough estimate of what to expect to pay for their own fans. Anyway, it was only a suggestion, so no biggie.


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## n01z

Nice work








You could think about something to keep ambient room temperature the same for every test. I know that you post delta temperature but you cannot compare results when one fan was working in 40C and second in 20C room temp, even be measuring the difference only (temps are ridicules i know but it shows what i mean).


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## adridu59




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## Cyclops

Delta AFC1212D-PWM now fully tested:



Loud and Deadly.

Pictures on post #2.


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## frjoethesecond

This is awesome. I hope you keep at it.

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2


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## Rkkonrad

Yea this is great, and can't wait to see the results!!

But I have to be an ass and point one thing out. Your "Noise to Temperature Ratio" really isn't a ratio. That ratio would be dividing Noise by the Temperature (keep in mind that the 10 here is unit-less). The reason being that temperature and noise have two completely different units and can't really be added into any sensible entity. Granted, I think that if you are using the same equation to define that stat for all of the fans it is fine, as the fans can just be compared relatively.

So there is no real problem here, but I just had to point that out. My engineering background wouldn't let this fly.


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## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rkkonrad*
> 
> Yea this is great, and can't wait to see the results!!
> But I have to be an ass and point one thing out. Your "Noise to Temperature Ratio" really isn't a ratio. That ratio would be dividing Noise by the Temperature (keep in mind that the 10 here is unit-less). The reason being that temperature and noise have two completely different units and can't really be added into any sensible entity. Granted, I think that if you are using the same equation to define that stat for all of the fans it is fine, as the fans can just be compared relatively.
> So there is no real problem here, but I just had to point that out. My engineering background wouldn't let this fly.


You're correct. I changed "Ratio" to "Rating" in all of the charts.


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## Cyclops

Alright folks, it's finaly done. Check post #1 for comparison charts between different fans in different scenarios. I made eight charts so far so give me feedback and I'll try to improve them.


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## Cyclops

Here are the test results for Scythe Kaze Jyuni SY1225SL12SH 120mm Slipstream:



Loud fans but they work alright. The plastic hub got really hot during operation. These fans along with a set of others, emit a weird grindy noise when operated either in Pull or Push/Pull. No idea why, but I assume it's because the fans "leak" alot due to lower quality / simpler design.

Will update the main charts after I put up results for a few more fans.


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## Cyclops

Corsair F12S25SH12A (H100/H80 Fans) Results are in:



Too loud in my opinion, could do with better ones.


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## Art Vanelay

Test a Delta AFB1212GHE. I want to see how well one of these performs; it does 240 CFM at 5200 RPM.


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## Cyclops

Got a pair of those Deltas and will test them soon. Might go deaf.


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## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Got a pair of those Deltas and will test them soon. Might go deaf.


Awesome. Make sure your system doesn't fly away when you turn it on.


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## Cyclops

Fan #6 - Yate Loon D12SM-12:



Surprisinly good fans. Best noise to temperature ratio I've recorded so far. Very quiet with good performance.

They didn't come in any boxes so no pictures of the box.


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## Cyclops

Updated the original post with the latest test data for accurate comparison.


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## Katcilla

Glad to see Prolimatech fans performing well here. Any chance of a test of 140mm Blue Vortex fans? I know there are a few people who'd like to confirm or debunk the claim of 87CFM at 17dBA, I am one of those people.

Keep up the good work!


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## Cyclops

Well I could but first of all, it's not a 120 mm fan and that's all I'm testing here (At least with this test system). Second, I don't have those fans







.


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## Katcilla

Ohh, whoops. I never noticed the 120mm theme.. my bad, again. They do actually make 120mm versions though, the 140mm are the more popular ones anyhow, but yeah. if you do move up to 140mm fans, they'd be a good one to test anyway.
Still, as I said, keep up the good work!


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## chinesethunda

are you going to keep adding them to the first post?

also would like to see you test CM blademaster and GT AP15


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## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> are you going to keep adding them to the first post?
> also would like to see you test CM blademaster and GT AP15


Uhh... yeah? Where else would I post them on? In case you've missed it, the fan comparison charts will be on post #1. Individual fan charts and pictures will be on Post #2.

As for those fans... I need to get them first







.


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## Cyclops

Just a small update. I replaced the Corsair TX850 power supply with a Seasonic SS-460FL. There was nothing wrong with the TX850. I made the change because the 460FL is a fanless unit and that will reduce system noise, allowing me to get a more accurate reading on my decibel meter when testing fans.


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## Katcilla

Nice, not a bad idea there!


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## Otterclock

If you come across one, try testing the Thermaltake Silent Cat. I got rather surprising results from it and I've been curious if it was a fluke or just matched the dynamics of my rig well.

p.s. always good to see fan testing. l'll keep peekin' in here.


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## Cyclops

Been a while, but teh 7th fan is done and dusted, Rosewill RFA-120-BL:



Decent fans, not obnoxiously loud. Honestly, these set of fans had the most consistent RPM range amongst any I've tested to date. Might not mean much, but it'll be easier on your ears as the pitch won't change that much, or at all. Again, probably not noticable compared to other fans, but thought I'd point it out.


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## Cyclops

8th fan, Cougar CF-V12HP Vortex:



Excellent build quality and aesthetics. Long cable, although sleeving is a bit shoddy. I for one love the orange color.

Excellent noise to temperature rating.

Pictures in post #2.

Edit: Brain fart. re-uploaded test results for the Rosewill fans. Corrected.


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## adridu59

Will you test some GT's soon ?


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## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Will you test some GT's soon ?


You willing to send me a pair?


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## Cyclops

Updated everything in the original post. All fans are now included in all test suits. Enjoy.


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## ihatelolcats

wohoo yate loon base


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## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You willing to send me a pair?


I don't even have any right now.


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## Cyclops

I'm back with a pair of Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 fans:



The best performing (Thermal wise) fans I've tested to this day. With that of course, comes a few issues, mainly the sound, as it really is deafening.

The other issue is that it can be very dangerous. I wouldn't recommend employing these fans in an open air system, specially if you have animals or small children in the household, but that's obvious enough.

Pics coming soon.


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## kubed_zero

Good stuff!


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## Onions

wow well done. contact the bitfenix rep on here xbournex i think is his name... he might send you a few fans to test out


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## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions*
> 
> wow well done. contact the bitfenix rep on here xbournex i think is his name... he might send you a few fans to test out


Hehe, thank you. I've asked a few companies and very few replied to my e-mails. Antec and Phanteks have responded to me and are sending me a few samples. I'm really glad that at least some manufacturers are taking this seriously and sending me products to test. I'll definitely message the bitfenix rep see if he's interested.


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## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm back with a pair of Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 fans:
> 
> The best performing (Thermal wise) fans I've tested to this day. With that of course, comes a few issues, mainly the sound, as it really is deafening.
> The other issue is that it can be very dangerous. I wouldn't recommend employing these fans in an open air system, specially if you have animals or small children in the household, but that's obvious enough.
> Pics coming soon.


Wow, I've always wanted to see how those fans perform. Amazing that anything broke 40 degrees.

If you turned one on while it was lying down on the table, would it hover?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Wow, I've always wanted to see how those fans perform. Amazing that anything broke 40 degrees.
> If you turned one on while it was lying down on the table, would it hover?


Nope, too heavy. If you put it on it's side though, it'll start to move.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Nope, too heavy. If you put it on it's side though, it'll start to move.


Aww, I was hoping to get some and have my case hover.


----------



## Cyclops

10th fan tested. Noctua NF-S12B:



Inaudible at any RPM or configuration. Unsurprisingly though, their cooling potential isn't adequate unless you run them on push/push, which is what I would recommend.

These fans are great for those silent freaks that want a quality product.

And as always check post #2 for pics.


----------



## Cyclops

I should also mention that the NF-S12B failed the pull test when operating with the ULN adaptor. It basically reached 100C and the processor started to throttle.

The push configuration did not have any such issues and performed decently. So if you're on a budget for a literally noiseless fan, then you can grab one of these and use it in a push configuration.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> These fans are great for those silent freaks that want a quality product.


Wouldn't Noctuas fans that are designed for heat sinks, like the NF-F12s, be better for quiet freaks?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Wouldn't Noctuas fans that are designed for heat sinks, like the NF-F12s, be better for quiet freaks?


I've got a pair of NF-P12s and NF-F12s and testing will comense shortly.


----------



## Cyclops

Latest results updated (Post #1).


----------



## Cyclops

At long last, Gentle Typhoon AP-15 is here and the numbers are good:



Rather expensive. Whining noise on Pull or Push/Pull as observed in many other fans. No whining when operated in push.

Pics on post #2.


----------



## zzzz

z


----------



## Cyclops

#12: Noctua NF-P12:



In terms of noise to termperature rating, these set of fans beat everything else I've tested to date.

Incredibly quiet with good airflow.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> #12: Noctua NF-P12:
> 
> In terms of noise to termperature rating, these set of fans beat everything else I've tested to date.
> Incredibly quiet with good airflow.


I can't wait to see the F12s then; I've heard people talk about how they are the best Noctua fan.

Do you have any of those Corsair water cooler stock fans to test?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I can't wait to see the F12s then; I've heard people talk about how they are the best Noctua fan.
> Do you have any of those Corsair water cooler stock fans to test?


Im testing Phanteks PH-F120S right now and after that, NF-F12s.

I've already reviewed Corsair fans that come with the H100. I also have a pack of AF120s from Corsair and a pair of SP120s on the way.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Im testing Phanteks PH-F120S right now and after that, NF-F12s.
> I've already reviewed Corsair fans that come with the H100. I also have a pack of AF120s from Corsair and a pair of SP120s on the way.


Oh, you did test those. I just suck at reading.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #13: Phanteks PH-F120S.



Guys over at Phanteks kindly sent me a pair of PH-F120S as well as a pair of it's 140mm brother. Since I don't have a 140mm test rig, they'll have to wait in line.

As for the 120s, they perform great and move quite a lot of air. I noticed that same old whining noise when operated in P/P or pull as observed with alot of other fans. On push however, it performed on par with the best of them without having to worry about that slightly annoying whining noise.

I have to say that these fans, specially in white, are very good looking. If you're doing a black and white themed build and you have a case with black internals, these would look great in it. There are other colors available, but the white sku was the one that really caught my attention.

As always, you can find the pictures in Post #2


----------



## Cyclops

Latest results updated in post #1 with Noctua's NF-P12 dominating in every noise to temperature rating scenario. i.e best possible cooling with lowest possible noise.

No challengers?


----------



## Rytingur

I am using Aerocool Shark Series 120mm+140mm fans in my new build, seem to be able to push a good amount of air with high static pressure and they are not all that loud.......

If you care to send me a PM with your shipping address I can sent you one to run some tests on. (I have an extra 120mm)


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rytingur*
> 
> I am using Aerocool Shark Series 120mm+140mm fans in my new build, seem to be able to push a good amount of air with high static pressure and they are not all that loud.......
> If you care to send me a PM with your shipping address I can sent you one to run some tests on. (I have an extra 120mm)


Thanks, you're very kind, but I will need at least a pair to do a proper test. I'll buy them in the near future.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #14: Noctua NF-F12:



Overall, I'm kind of dissapointed with these fans. Compared to their older brother, NF-P12, they're noisier with marginally better cooling. The result is that it can not beat the NF-P12s in noise to temperature rating scenarios.

I must add though, these fans are built to push air as far as possible as you can tell by the name "Focused Flow", so maybe their not suited to cool down a tower heatsink. Don't get me wrong, the performance was great, it's just that i'm comparing them with the NF-P12s and they are coming up short. It's basically sacrificing noise for airflow.

The annoying buzzing/whining noise is back again when operating these fans in either pull or push/pull configs.


----------



## jmrios82

Excellent work man, I'm moving my hardware to the T60, if I cant use my NH-D14, I would use a Megahelms Black, so your bechs are my guide right now..







looking forward for the review on the corsair's SP120..


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jmrios82*
> 
> Excellent work man, I'm moving my hardware to the T60, if I cant use my NH-D14, I would use a Megahelms Black, so your bechs are my guide right now..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looking forward for the review on the corsair's SP120..


Thank you. I'm glad this is helping people out.

I ordered a pair of SP120s a while back alongside a pair of AF120s. The AFs arrived safe and sound but I'm still waiting on the SPs. - Sad Face -


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Fan #14: Noctua NF-F12:
> 
> Overall, I'm kind of dissapointed with these fans. Compared to their older brother, NF-P12, they're noisier with marginally better cooling. The result is that it can not beat the NF-P12s in noise to temperature rating scenarios.
> I must add though, these fans are built to push air as far as possible as you can tell by the name "Focused Flow", so maybe their not suited to cool down a tower heatsink. Don't get me wrong, the performance was great, it's just that i'm comparing them with the NF-P12s and they are coming up short. It's basically sacrificing noise for airflow.
> The annoying buzzing/whining noise is back again when operating these fans in either pull or push/pull configs.


Were those the original or updated NF-F12s?


----------



## Starbomba

Wow, that's a nice idea, it's a bit hard to choose the right fans, especially on a budget.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Were those the original or updated NF-F12s?


Didn't know there was an updated version. At any rate, I've bought these fans before, and bought another pair 2 weeks ago for this review. I have to say that the packaging was totaly different. I'm guessing they are from different revisions. The ones in these tests were the latest.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #15: Silverstone SST-FN121-BL:



Quite unremarkable. Rather load for the amount of cooling they offer. These ones have blue LEDs. What else... oh and they come in a box.

Pics in the second post as usual.


----------



## ./Cy4n1d3\.

Quote:


> *"Fans!!!! The most complete and comprehensive array of tests and benchmarks"*


Eh, no Sickleflows? Not very complete or comprehensive if you leave out these very popular fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *./Cy4n1d3\.*
> 
> Eh, no Sickleflows? Not very complete or comprehensive if you leave out these very popular fans.


You can ask everyone here "what is the most popular fan" and you'd get different answers. The fact that I've rarely heard of them doesn't really make it "popular" in my book. This is a work in progress project, more fans will be added as I aquire them.

Your negative feedback is noted.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Didn't know there was an updated version. At any rate, I've bought these fans before, and bought another pair 2 weeks ago for this review. I have to say that the packaging was totaly different. I'm guessing they are from different revisions. The ones in these tests were the latest.


I think there is a newer version of those fans, I am not 100% sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You can ask everyone here "what is the most popular fan" and you'd get different answers. The fact that I've rarely heard of them doesn't really make it "popular" in my book. This is a work in progress project, more fans will be added as I aquire them.
> Your negative feedback is noted.


I used to have some sickle flows. They were pretty loud and the LEDs were awful. I ended up tearing the LEDs out of them, and eventually just abandoning them.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #16 - Silverstone FM121:



Pros: Incredible noise to temp rating when used in push or p/p while opertaing at the lowest RPM settings. They beat everything else I've tested to date and are very very quiet. They come included with a fan controller that you can install on a 3.5" bay.

Cons: Very inefficient in terms of noise to temp rating when operated at full speed. Very loud, they move alot of air, but still very loud. The fan comes with three, yes three, connectors, which complicates things. One molex and molex passthrough to power the fan, one signal cable that you can connect to your motherboard to monitor the RPM, and one weird 2-pin cable to connect the included fan controller. I don't know about you, but that's just very busy to me. To top it all off, none of the cables are braided or come in black so overall, it's a bit of a mess.

Other thoughts: They are relatively cheap. They go for just under 12 CAD on Direct Canada (Don't know about prices in the US). The blades (Shape, numbers, etc), the hub and the frame look identical to the last Silverstone fan I tested, the SST-FN121-BL. The latter has LEDs and a fixed RPM motor.


----------



## Rytingur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks, you're very kind, but I will need at least a pair to do a proper test. I'll buy them in the near future.


Only a few places carry them (yet) and most are in the US I got mine from Performance -PCS (direct link) I thought I would offer because the shipping is the killer on these.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rytingur*
> 
> Only a few places carry them (yet) and most are in the US I got mine from Performance -PCS (direct link) I thought I would offer because the shipping is the killer on these.


Well Tiger direct has the Red LED version for 14 bucks:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7020075&SRCCODE=SHOPBOT&cm_mmc_o=2mHCjCmtB5_BfCjCVqHCjCdwwp

PS: I just bought a pair.


----------



## Rytingur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well Tiger direct has the Red LED version for 14 bucks:
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7020075&SRCCODE=SHOPBOT&cm_mmc_o=2mHCjCmtB5_BfCjCVqHCjCdwwp


Cool







when your able to get them ordered I look forward to seeing some numbers.....I never looked for red only the all black XD


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #2 re-visit: Scythe DFS123812-3000 Ultra Kaze:



The reason for the revisit was that I didn't have the heatsink seated properly when I began. I corrected this issue before testing the 3rd fan but I never thought of going back and re-testing the affected products. I decided to do so and apparently it did make a difference.

Temperatured droped about 3 degrees on average with the heatsink seated correctly. I will be updating the first post with the correct results shortly.

PS: I will have to re-do the tests with Prolimatech fans as well so stay tuned for updates.


----------



## toolio20

Great thread, and sorely needed IMO!

I'd like to suggest the Enermax T.B.Silence get the treatment should the opportunity arise - to say feedback on these is mixed would be an understatement. Regardless, anxiously awaiting the numbers on the SP120s as well - thanks for this thread, awesome work


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #1 re-visit - Prolimatech Red Vertex 12 LED:



Much better temps after the re-test. First run really didn't do them justice.


----------



## Cyclops

All the latest results along side the re-visits are uploaded for comparision to post #1. I hope you guys can appreciate how much time and effort I'm putting in this project as it is very time consuming


----------



## Rkkonrad

This thread is amazing, should definitly get stickied at some point!
I am looking to replace the stock fans on my Thermaltake Frio and am keeping close watch to this thread. Keep it up!


----------



## Cyclops

Corsair SP120 High Performance Edition..... came in the mail a couple of hours. Sorry, but the review will be up by tomorrow night. I've already done the thermal tests, now all that's left is to measure the noise and some other minor fiddly bits


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #17: Corsair SP120 High Performance Edition



Little bit dissapointed with the performance.

When employed in pull mode, it actually makes more noise than P/P which is something that I've never seen before. I thought my DB meter was going haywire but after another round of tests, the results didn't change.

The gyst of it is that it's highly inefficient in pull mode. Decent performance in push. P/P didn't really help the temperaturs that much, but that's to be expected since these fans don't operate slow enough for a P/P configuration to make a difference.

As you can see, these fans are built for performance rather than quietness. I haven't got a set of lower RPM sku to test and see if they have a better noise to temperature ratio. I will however if Corsair decide to send me a pair.

On the positive side, these fans look great with interchangable rings that come in different colors.

They perform pretty close to Corsair's F12S25SH12A fans that come with H100, but the SPs are much quieter, so that's a pretty good upgrade path.


----------



## toolio20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Fan #17: Corsair SP120 High Performance Edition
> 
> Little bit dissapointed with the performance...


Ditto, I had high expectations for these; on the upside thanks for the detailed analysis, really appreciate the time you've spent making this thread.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toolio20*
> 
> Ditto, I had high expectations for these; on the upside thanks for the detailed analysis, really appreciate the time you've spent making this thread.


No problem. As long as people are interested and give me support for the work I do I'll continue doing it even if the I have to pay out of my own pocket.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toolio20*
> 
> Ditto, I had high expectations for these


I knew they were overrated.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #18 - Scythe SY1225SL12M SlipStream:



Pretty much the gentler version of the 1900 RPM big dog, so naturally the noise to temperature rating is better. Noise level is much more tolerable than the 1900 version, but obviously the temperatures are not as good.

Pics on Post #2 as well as Corsair SP120s which I forgot to put up yesterday.


----------



## chinesethunda

could you test the blademasters and the xtraflows?


----------



## Cyclops

I've got a pair of Cooler Master Silent Fan 120 S12 but no blademasters yet.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> could you test the blademasters and the xtraflows?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've got a pair of Cooler Master Silent Fan 120 S12 but no blademasters yet.


Well maybe someone from the 212 Club has Blademasters laying around... might be worth a call.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Well maybe someone from the 212 Club has Blademasters laying around... might be worth a call.


I can't just go over there and beg for a pair of fans bro







.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I can't just go over there and beg for a pair of fans bro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ask *chinesethunda* for this he's the OP.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #19 - Aerocool Shark Devil Red Edition A1225L12:



I've heard good things about these fans, but to me. they were quite unremarkable.

Okay thermal performance with okay noise output. Unusual 15 blade fan design.

This Sku, obvious by it's name, comes with red LEDs.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol, i guess that would work, il put out a word in the club to see if anyone has spares


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol, i guess that would work, il put out a word in the club to see if anyone has spares


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol, i guess that would work, il put out a word in the club to see if anyone has spares


Appreciate it.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #20: Cougar CF-V12HB Vortex



Very quiet and they look really nice. The cooling performance (keeping in mind the noise output) is excellent.

They're going for 10.05 on Best Direct right now. Don't know about prices in the US.

If you can't afford Noctua's NF-P12s, worry no longer. These fans are superb. They look great (Pick your color theme), and are really cheap considering the fantastic build quality.

They definitely get my approval. I know there are fans that perform similarly and are in the same decibel range, but again, for the money, nothing looks as good nor perform as well. I just haven't come across anything better, yet.

PS: No, I bought these fans with my own money, so please no conspiracy theories that they were given to me so I could rate them higher







.

As always, pics on post #2


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #21 - Corsair AF120 Performance Edition:



Nothing remarkable about these fans. Corsair themselves say that these are suited to move air inside the chassis or something similar and are not designed for heatsinks or radiators. Regardless, that's what I test them for here.

On the other hand, they look quite nice with black wires all around. Fit and finish is excellent.


----------



## Cyclops

All the latest results updated at post #1. 21 fans classified so far!!!

Enjoy.


----------



## AznRage

Seems to me the Phanteks fan has the best noise to temperature ratio? That's what I'm going for in my new build.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznRage*
> 
> Seems to me the Phanteks fan has the best noise to temperature ratio? That's what I'm going for in my new build.


Look at post #1 to see the noise to temperature ratings.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznRage*
> 
> Seems to me the Phanteks fan has the best noise to temperature ratio? That's what I'm going for in my new build.


Noctua NF-P12s seem to be the best to me.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Noctua NF-P12s seem to be the best to me.


They are, but those Phanteks look super sexy.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Are you planning on testing high RPM Scythe GTs?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Are you planning on testing high RPM Scythe GTs?


I've tested the AP-15s, which are the highest RPM models availabl.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've tested the AP-15s, which are the highest RPM models availabl.


AP-29s are 3000 RPM, and the models go up to 5400 RPM. They aren't really the same series of fans, but they look like the best high RPM fans to me.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_49_1043&products_id=30013


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> AP-29s are 3000 RPM, and the models go up to 5400 RPM. They aren't really the same series of fans, but they look like the best high RPM fans to me.
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_49_1043&products_id=30013


Yeah, well I guess they have to wait. My budget is a bit tight right now and I'm waiting on a few sponsers to send me more products.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #22 - Zalman ZM-F3 ZF1225ASH:



Generic looking fans with really good performance when they're running with the included LNA. I wouldn't really bother using them without, unless you're going for a push setup. Generaly speaking, any noise to temperature rating bellow 9 is considered good.

As always, pictures in post #2.


----------



## toolio20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Fan #20: Cougar CF-V12HB Vortex
> Very quiet and they look really nice. The cooling performance (keeping in mind the noise output) is excellent.
> If you can't afford Noctua's NF-P12s, worry no longer. These fans are superb. They look great (Pick your color theme), and are really cheap considering the fantastic build quality.
> They definitely get my approval. I know there are fans that perform similarly and are in the same decibel range, but again, for the money, nothing looks as good nor perform as well. I just haven't come across anything better, yet.


Really?
I just picked up three CF-V12HB Vortices for ~$25 (at that price I pretty much couldn't resist) and...well, I'm kind of underwhelmed. As intake fans they're a bit noisy and really don't move a surprising amount of air (though I agree they're aces as exhaust fans). I've never owned Noctuas (for obviou$ reasons) but you think the Cougars really stack up that well against them? Man, THANK YOU for saving me some major disappointment - I'd be pissed beyond words if I dropped the same money for a single fan with similar performance.

Have I mentioned how much I heart this thread? Please keep the reviews coming, your work is very much appreciated!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Is the heat sink you are using designed for low RPM fans?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toolio20*
> 
> Really?
> I just picked up three CF-V12HB Vortices for ~$25 (at that price I pretty much couldn't resist) and...well, I'm kind of underwhelmed. As intake fans they're a bit noisy and really don't move a surprising amount of air (though I agree they're aces as exhaust fans). I've never owned Noctuas (for obviou$ reasons) but you think the Cougars really stack up that well against them? Man, THANK YOU for saving me some major disappointment - I'd be pissed beyond words if I dropped the same money for a single fan with similar performance.
> Have I mentioned how much I heart this thread? Please keep the reviews coming, your work is very much appreciated!


That's a pretty good deal. Well I test these fans on a heatsink, I can't say how they would perform when you mount it inside your case as an intake/exhaust (I assume that's what you're doing?). Are you sure you picked up the 1200 RPM version? Because the 1500 RPM PWM version is the one with the annoying whining noise not the 1200s. Anyways, you're welcome. It's the support that keeps this thread alive.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> It's the support that keeps this thread alive.


Yeah, we won't let this thread die; this is very helpful.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol i have 7 gt ap15s and 2 corsair air series fans i need to open and play with lol


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol i have 7 gt ap15s and 2 corsair air series fans i need to open and play with lol


Yes, you do.


----------



## Vlodaf

Could you test the new noiseblocker eloop fans? Found a youtube vid about them and they look pretty interesting ( and they seem to be really silent), oh and keep up the good work!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlodaf*
> 
> Could you test the new noiseblocker eloop fans? Found a youtube vid about them and they look pretty interesting ( and they seem to be really silent), oh and keep up the good work!


If the budget is there, I'll get a pair. For now though, you'll have to wait.


----------



## Vlodaf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> If the budget is there, I'll get a pair. For now though, you'll have to wait.


That's alright, it is great what you're doing to begin with


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #23 - Scythe Kaze-Jyuni PWM SY1225SL12LM-P SlipStream



Yet another fan from the large family of SlipStreams. This model has PWM so it will be more pleasent to your ears if you have a motherboard with PWM fan headers. Performance is adequate. No point running it in pull since the noise output is identical to a push/pull configuration. If you're going for silence, go for push. If performance is your thing then P/P is a no brainer.

One thing I need to point out is that the two samples that I bought are quit different. To be more specific, one of them operate at a higher RPM range than the other. Usualy most fans are in the same boat, but in this case the difference was too big for me to ignore (50-100 RPM). Scythe might want to take a closer look at their quality control department on this, then again these fans are relatively cheap so that's the price you pay.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Is your heat sink designed for low RPM fans? How much of a difference would there be in the performance of high RPM fans like the Deltas on very high FPI heat sinks or radiators?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is your heat sink designed for low RPM fans? How much of a difference would there be in the performance of high RPM fans like the Deltas on very high FPI heat sinks, radiators?


All you need to know about my setup is in Post #3. The distance between each fin layer is 2mm. I checked out some other heatsinks such as Noctua NH-C14 and Hyper 212+ and the gap is exactly the same so I'm assuming that's the industry standard and the most efficient way to dissipate heat.

I can't really tell you how these fans would perform on a radiator. As you can see, I started this thread in the aircooling section. IF (and that's a big if) I get the budget or support to make another rig with a simple custom watercooling loop, I can test all these fans on radiators.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> All you need to know about my setup is in Post #3. The distance between each fin layer is 2mm. I checked out some other heatsinks such as Noctua NH-C14 and Hyper 212+ and the gap is exactly the same so I'm assuming that's the industry standard and the most efficient way to dissipate heat.
> I can't really tell you how these fans would perform on a radiator. As you can see, I started this thread in the aircooling section. IF (and that's a big if) I get the budget or support to make another rig with a simple custom watercooling loop, I can test all these fans on radiators.


So that's 12.7 FPI... I have no idea what that signifies. lol

Maybe get a sponsor for a WC setup.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Maybe get a sponsor for a WC setup.


How about you get me one?


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #24 - Enermax T.B.Silence UCTB12N PD1225112L-1:



Unusual set of fans. it rotates considerably faster in push than pull, and as a result of this, it's actually noisier in push mode. Might have something to do with "Bat Wing" fan blades. Uses twister bearings which I've never seen or heard of before.

It's the lightest fan I've tested to date. The shroud is semi-detachable as you can see from the pictures (Post #2). Performance is okay, nothing to shake a stick at. Red LED might please the eyes.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #25 - Cooler Master Silent Fan 120 S12 R4-S2S-124K-GP:



The most generic and the cheapest fans I've ever tested, but don't let that cloud your judgment. They perform really well for the noise they put out, and at 2.5 bucks a pop, you just can't best that. I bought a 4 pack on newegg for 10 dolars.

If you're short on cash but still want something really quiet with good performance in push/pull, then this should be your go to fans.


----------



## toolio20

Thanks for continuing on with this - I'm in freaking awe









There isn't much information floating around out there about the T.B.Silence fans, appreciate you giving them the once over. Also, pretty impressed by the CM results - not sure if sleeve bearings are intrinsically more quiet than their ball/hydrostatic floating point magneto/voodoo counterparts but that's a mighty decent showing from the cheapo 4-pack (although screwegg upped the price a staggering 40% - dicks). In fact, although it'd be subjective (and as such possibly more of a PITA than it's worth) I don't think I'd be the only one interested to hear you expound a bit more on the value (price/performance) of the fans you test since you've got a pretty sizable frame of reference on which to base your conclusions. I know you already touch on this in a summary and cursory manner, but the internet always wants MOAR! Please correct me if I'm wrong but so far it seems the standouts, in descending order, are the Noctuas, the Cougars and the CMs - is it fair to call these the premium, mid-range and budget picks?

Again, amazing work; to my knowledge there is nothing even remotely close to being as exhaustive and thorough as this list anywhere else - bravo.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toolio20*
> 
> Thanks for continuing on with this - I'm in freaking awe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't much information floating around out there about the T.B.Silence fans, appreciate you giving them the once over. Also, pretty impressed by the CM results - not sure if sleeve bearings are intrinsically more quiet than their ball/hydrostatic floating point magneto/voodoo counterparts but that's a mighty decent showing from the cheapo 4-pack (although screwegg upped the price a staggering 40% - dicks). In fact, although it'd be subjective (and as such possibly more of a PITA than it's worth) I don't think I'd be the only one interested to hear you expound a bit more on the value (price/performance) of the fans you test since you've got a pretty sizable frame of reference on which to base your conclusions. I know you already touch on this in a summary and cursory manner, but the internet always wants MOAR! Please correct me if I'm wrong but so far it seems the standouts, in descending order, are the Noctuas, the Cougars and the CMs - is it fair to call these the premium, mid-range and budget picks?
> Again, amazing work; to my knowledge there is nothing even remotely close to being as exhaustive and thorough as this list anywhere else - bravo.


Well thank you, I do appreciate your comment and feedback.

Well I wouldn't know which bearing would be quieter. In reality, there really isn't much between them. No matter how quiet a bearing is, a fan that pushes more air than the other, generaly makes more noise. It's simple science, the more you disturb the air, the more noise it'll make and bearings can only do so much to dampen that, although it might reduce vibration.

You forgot to mention the silverstone fans that stand out in the Noise to temperature category. They're holding the crown right now.

It's really difficult to add costs to these charts as prices change all the time. On top of that, depending on where you live, tax, VAT, etc change as well. The best thing anyone can do is to go through the list and look for the fans online one by one to see where they can get the best deal.


----------



## Cyclops

There's been a bit of a hiccup guys. I should have done this a while back but I guess now's better than never. Antec sent me a pair of TrueQuiet Pro 120s and I started testing them. The problem is that my current Decibel meter doesn't register well when Ambient noise is bellow 30db which is the case with these fans when operated in low mode.

Long story short, I'm getting an industrial grade Decibel meter. Since it's saturday and everywhere is closed, I have till monday to decide on what to buy, so if you guys have any suggestions, let me know and I'll look them over.

I'm gonna be very busy re-testing every single fan with the new instrument, but at least I'll get more accurate data.


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #13, #17, #19, #21, #24, #25.

As I explained a while back, I decided to change my Decibel meter. The one that I have now has a much more sensitive microphone so the data is going to be more accurate. This model is called SL-824.

I'm re-testing all the fans I've done so far with this new device so it's going to take a while before I test new fproducts. Here are the one's I've done so far:


----------



## chinesethunda

thanks for the update, more precise data is always a plus.

you could also ask here if anyone has fans they would like to be tested that they could donate, such as the blademasters. i am currently using mine, but i might have a few i'll check when i move back to my apartment


----------



## Cyclops

Thanks, and that's a good idea. Although fans are rather inexpensive so asking for donation would be a bit awkward. I'm re-testing the old fans for noise and after that move on to new ones, obviously.


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #7, and #15:





I'm sorry it's taking so long guys, but I've just been really busy lately. I know that's the usual excuse but I'll try to get through them as soon as possible.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Those Silverstone fans are surprisingly good.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Those Silverstone fans are surprisingly good.


i know right, i so want a set of those to have lol


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #16, and #22:





Now with a more accurate DB meter, these fans can truly shine, specially the FM121. The silverstone fans are literlay inaudible in low mode and they move a ton of air. The blades look very generic but they work alright. The Zalman fans still suffer from that high pitched whining noise when running in pull mode even when they're equipped with the LNA.


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #10, #12, and #14:







All noctua fans in all their glory. NF-P12 is the one that stands out, and I still don't understand why the NF-S12B needs a LNA. It's dead quiet as it is.


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #1, #8, #11, #20:









The results for the GT AP-15s are a bit deceiving. While the Noise output seems to be acceptable, the buzzing noise is downright intolerable. It's just something the DB meter won't pickup.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Yay updates.


----------



## nawon72

Excellent work, subbed.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> To calculate Noise to Temperature rating I simply add Delta temperature to Noise and divide it by 10. Lower values are better.


What does the Noise to Temperature Rating mean? (e.g. C*/W is Celsius per Watt)

You may be interested in these PDFs and links about fans (compiled and uploaded to MediaFire by me):

http://www.mediafire.com/?8uidb5xzgwwv4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> How much of a difference would there be in the performance of high RPM fans like the Deltas on very high FPI heat sinks or radiators?


The high RPM will definitely help overcome the pressure loss since New SP/Old SP = (New Speed/Old Speed)2.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> What does the Noise to Temperature Rating mean? (e.g. C*/W is Celsius per Watt)
> 
> You may be interested in these PDFs and links about fans (uploaded to MediaFire by me):
> http://205.196.123.172/ficnqp8rjrzg/v4d66fn71ktbvdy/Fans.zip


To clarify, it's not a ratio, it's a rating. I simply add delta temperature to noise and then devide it by 10. It's just a way of showing how much a fan can cool relative to how much noise it produces. Obviously the lower the number, the better the fan performs in that criteria.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> What does the Noise to Temperature Rating mean? (e.g. C*/W is Celsius per Watt)
> 
> 
> 
> To clarify, it's not a ratio, it's a rating. I simply add delta temperature to noise and then devide it by 10. It's just a way of showing how much a fan can cool relative to how much noise it produces. Obviously the lower the number, the better the fan performs in that criteria.
Click to expand...

OK, then how did you come up with the equation? dB is not not linear, and I don't understand how the number can mean anything if it doesn't have units unless it's a subjective, relative measurement, or ratio.







Ex. (40dB + 40*C)/10 = 8?, where are the units?. The units don't cancel like in this equation: New CFM/Old CFM = New RPM/Old RPM


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> OK, then how did you come up with the equation? dB is not not linear, and I don't understand how the number can mean anything if it doesn't have units unless it's a subjective, relative measurement, or ratio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ex. (40dB + 40*C)/10 = 8?, where are the units?. The units don't cancel like in this equation: New CFM/Old CFM = New RPM/Old RPM


Again, it's just a rating, not a ratio. It doesn't have a unit associated with it. I guess you could call it subjective. Read post #3 for more info.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> The high RPM will definitely help overcome the pressure loss since New SP/Old SP = (New Speed/Old Speed)2.


I wanted to know more to what degree it would have an effect.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Again, it's just a rating, not a ratio. It doesn't have a unit associated with it. I guess you could call it subjective. Read post #3 for more info.


I only see:

Quote:


> The chart that I'm going to make will include a simple yet intuitive Performance to Noise ratio section alongside other standard bits and bobs.


So I still don't understand how this rating is of any use. And it can't be subjective if you're using measured values such as the ΔT and dB (A weighted I'm assuming). I'm concerned people will use this rating to compare fans when it doesn't mean anything (from what I can see). It would be like making a price/performance comparison when the price is always changing due to sales, supply/demand, and where you are buying the product from.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I will also be measuring the noise levels of each and every fan and maybe later, the voltage required to run these fans at full speed.


Are you going set the voltage to make the fan run at it's rated speed? Seems pointless to me. But maybe you meant to measure the starting voltage and RPM, and were thinking something else when you typed that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> The high RPM will definitely help overcome the pressure loss since New SP/Old SP = (New Speed/Old Speed)2.
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to know more to what degree it would have an effect.
Click to expand...

You would need to add the ventilation resistance into a PQ graph of the fan/s in question, similar to this (this is real world data though). On top of that you would want to add the dBA to Q (flow) curve for the fan/s. Then you can see which fan (in theory) will be the best choice. However, you usually can't directly compare fans specs from different manufactures since their testing methods are different. It would require a lot conversions to do a proper comparison (see this for more info on that).

But since most of the above info is not readily available (you could try sending an email), testing is the only way to know for sure.


----------



## kevinsbane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> To clarify, it's not a ratio, it's a rating. I simply add delta temperature to noise and then devide it by 10. It's just a way of showing how much a fan can cool relative to how much noise it produces. Obviously the lower the number, the better the fan performs in that criteria.
> Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it.


So wait... (delta T + decibels)/10?

If a fan can cool more... (ie, higher delta T), then its rating goes up.
If a fan is loud... (ie, higher decibels), then its rating goes up.

Is a high rating desirable, or a low rating? A loud, high performance fan has a high rating. A soft, low performance fan has a low rating. A high performance, low noise fan has a moderate rating and a low performance, high noise fan has a moderate rating. I don't get how the current rating is useful for anything given that a high performance, low noise fan (the best kind) is rated the same as a low performance, high noise fan (the worst kind).

A low rating could be achieved by a 500 rpm 120mm fan.
A high rating can be achieved by a 5400 rpm 120mm fan.
Neither of the above are necessarily good fans...


----------



## Cyclops

I'm gonna clarify this once and for all. The noise to tempertaure rating is there to access how well a fan can cool and how quiet it is. I came up with that equation primarily for quiet fans.

Here's an example:

Fan A produces 40 DBs and can keep the delta temperature at 50 C. Fan B produces the same amount of noise, but it's delta temeprature is 45 C. Therefore, Fan A's noise to temperature rating is 9 ( [40+50] /10) and Fan B's rating is 8.5. We can conclude that fan B is performing better than Fan A because it's getting a smaller/lower rating (Lower is better).

It's all well and good that some fans like Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 can bring the tempertures down to 38.9C (In my test suit), but it does that by generating over 80 DB of noise which is unbearable in a typical household.

I could have just made noise and temperature charts and leave the rest well enough alone, but I see more and more people going for quieter and more efficient setups. Having something like noise to temperature rating can help choose the best possible fan(s) that are extremely quiet and can also move a decent amount of air at the same time.


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #4, #18, #23:







All the Scythe Fans (25mm thick) I've tested to date. They concentrate more on performance than quietness.


----------



## Cyclops

Revisiting Fans #2, #3, #5, #6, and #9:











I'm finaly finished with all the old fans, so now I can move on with new products.

All the noise output results have been re-uploaded to post #1. Post #2 is also back up to speed. Noise to temperature ratings are coming soon.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> It's all well and good that some fans like Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 can bring the tempertures down to 38.9C (In my test suit), but it does that by generating over 80 DB of noise which is unbearable in a typical household.


The delta temperature is halved when you double the flow rate, which is why there is little benefit to very high RPM fans when your using a heat sink with a low pressure drop. Here's an example:

Let's assume 0 pressure drop (ventilating resistance, or restriction) to make it easier.

*Scenario A:*

Fan A @2000RPM: 50CFM, 2*C ΔT, 40dB

Fan A @4000RPM: 100CFM, 1*C ΔT, 55dB

You lower the ΔT by 1*C, but at what cost (in terms of noise)? Well, doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB. Definitely not worth it.

*Scenario B:*

Fan A @1000RPM: 25CFM, 10*C ΔT, 25dB

Fan A @2000RPM: 50CFM, 5*C ΔT, 40dB

This time your ΔT drops by 5*C. You may have increase the noise by 15dB but Fan A @1000RPM was very quiet, and now the fan is at a tolerable noise level. So with little cost in terms of noise, you have lowered the ΔT by 5*C.

*Scenario C:*

Fan A @500RPM: 12.5CFM, 20*C ΔT, 10dB

Fan A @1000RPM: 25CFM, 10*C ΔT, 25dB

ΔT is now 10*C lower, but the fan is still very quiet. Quite a large gain for almost no cost in noise.

*Equations used for the above:*

CFM = 3.16 x W / ΔT (°F)

Assuming specific heat and density for sea level.

CFM2 = CFM1 (RPM2 / RPM1)

N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)

Where: N = noise (dB)

Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.

*Note:* ΔT is the difference between the inlet and outlet temperature of the heat sink and fan/s combination.

Keep in mind that +10dB is a doubling in noise. Let's add 40*C to the ΔTs since the heat transfer between the CPU and heat sink is not 100% efficient. Based on the above and using your rating, the lower the RPM, the better the fan.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Fan A produces 40 DBs and can keep the delta temperature at 50 C. *Fan B produces the same amount of noise*, but it's delta temeprature is 45 C. Therefore, Fan A's noise to temperature rating is 9 ( [40+50] /10) and Fan B's rating is 8.5. We can conclude that fan B is performing better than Fan A because it's getting a smaller/lower rating (Lower is better).


The bold part seems to be the flaw. If noise is constant, then you can compare the fans directly. But with the noise being different for each fan, I believe you have to account for the perceived noise level (+10dB is a doubling in noise). The fans must be compared "apples to apples".

For example:

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT

Fan B @29dB*: 1250RPM, 20*C ΔT

*Measured 50cm from the intake rather than the standard 1m

If Fan B was measured at the same distance as Fan A, it would be 6dB louder (when the reflection sound to nearby walls is ignored).

So now it's:

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT

Fan B @35dB: 1250RPM, 20*C ΔT

Based on your rating (after adding 40*C to ΔT):

Fan A: 9.8

Fan B: 9.5

Fan B is better. Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:

Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT

Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT

Based on your rating (after adding 40*C to ΔT):

Fan A: 9.8

Fan B: 10

Fan A is better. How can this be







!? Well it seems that the lower the RPM, the more of an advantage the fan has in these zero pressure drop scenarios. Once you add some ventilating resistance, I suspect there will be a certain RPM for the heat sink you are using that will give the fans an unfair advantage when compared using your rating. And that doesn't even account for the fact that dB is not linear.

You may have already known that fans have a "sweet spot" in terms of pressure drop, but in case you didn't here is a graph that shows it.

So can you please stop rating the fans this way?







And make sure any replacement equation you use makes sense.

Hopefully I didn't make any mistakes in the above. If I did, feel free to point them out with evidence to back it up.

*Edit:* Make sure you read the changes in the latest edit.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #26 - Antec True Quiet 120:



This is going to be the first new fan review I've done in a while and it's a good one. There are a couple of unique design elements associated with this fan that I've never seen on any other products before.

First and foremost, the fanblades are fused to the frame. Couple this with the smallest hub that I've seen on a 120mm fan and you'll get the least possible deadzone, which means more airflow for the same given space.

The other strong point with this product is how effortlessly it operates. I didn't actually realize this 'till I turned the test system off. Only then I noticed that It took quite a while for the fan to stop spinning. I did a control test with a couple of other fans in the same RPM range and measured how long it would take for them to come to a complete stop after the power was cut off. The average time was about 3-6 seconds, however, it took The Antec fan 30 seconds to come to a complete halt which is amazing.

There are a couple of neutral/negative things that I need to point out though. The fan operates in 1200 RPM and 600 RPM modes. The way you can change this is by flicking a switch that is connected by a wire to the fan. RPM reduction is usualy done by an additional adaptor (LNA, ULNA). It would have been alot better if the switch was placed on the fan itself and not connected to it with a wire or, they could have offered the fan with a low noise adaptor, making cable management easier.

One more thing you need to be careful about is the frame. The fan comes with rubber grommets all around to reduce vibration. This is fine when you're operating it on a heatsink in push configuration. in pull mode however, you might have the frame contact the heatsink surface, so make sure you set it up properly.

All in all, this is a very innovative product. In low RPM mode, it's impossible to hear the fan. I wouldn't bother with that mode though, as normal operation is quiet enough for pretty much everybody.

As always, pictures on post #2.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
> Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT
> 
> *Note:* I first removed the +40*C from earlier.
> 
> Based on your rating (added 40*C to ΔT yet again):
> Fan A: 9.8
> Fan B: 10


Why did the noise from fan b change to 50dB?


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
> Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT
> 
> *Note:* I first removed the +40*C from earlier.
> 
> Based on your rating (added 40*C to ΔT yet again):
> Fan A: 9.8
> Fan B: 10
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the noise from fan b change to 50dB?
Click to expand...

This is why:

Quote:


> Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:


Quote:


> doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB


Quote:


> N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)
> 
> Where: N = noise (dB)
> 
> Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.


----------



## dhughesuk

This is intense, I love it and kudos to the hard work gone into everything on here. From certain charts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like Push/Pull configurations have an indistiguishable gain and sometimes no gain at all at a very significant doubling of power. Push/Pull configs look good but I'm sure I've seen in other places that it does make a difference. If I am reading it right and your tests are showing that push/pull makes very little difference, could this be down to the setup of your test rig? can the nature of the rig affect this?

I really appreciaite the work gone into it though, my own testing is based on noise and how cheaply I can get the fans. Possibly a price/performance/noise score could be put together as well. Price is important if you have to pay


----------



## Truedeal

Man, I must say..I love delta fans.

I do also hate when people complain about fan noise, it sounds in my opinion rather appealing.









You should test the Delta Mega-fast 120mm fans.
Which supposedly run up to 7200 rpm and are rated at 252 cfm.
Might as well be a leaf-blower fan







.

Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8147/fan-500/Delta_Mega_Fast_120mm_x_38mm_Fan_-_252_CFM_-_Bare_Lead_PFB1212UHE-F00.html


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhughesuk*
> 
> This is intense, I love it and kudos to the hard work gone into everything on here. From certain charts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like Push/Pull configurations have an indistiguishable gain and sometimes no gain at all at a very significant doubling of power. Push/Pull configs look good but I'm sure I've seen in other places that it does make a difference. If I am reading it right and your tests are showing that push/pull makes very little difference, could this be down to the setup of your test rig? can the nature of the rig affect this?


Fans in series increases the static pressure, so it is most helpful when there is a lot of ventilating resistance. See this diagram. So yes, "the nature of the rig" can "affect this".


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhughesuk*
> 
> This is intense, I love it and kudos to the hard work gone into everything on here. From certain charts, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like Push/Pull configurations have an indistiguishable gain and sometimes no gain at all at a very significant doubling of power. Push/Pull configs look good but I'm sure I've seen in other places that it does make a difference. If I am reading it right and your tests are showing that push/pull makes very little difference, could this be down to the setup of your test rig? can the nature of the rig affect this?
> I really appreciaite the work gone into it though, my own testing is based on noise and how cheaply I can get the fans. Possibly a price/performance/noise score could be put together as well. Price is important if you have to pay


Thanks. I've already said this before, but depening on when you buy it and where you buy it from, it will be a different number everytime so I can't make a chart on that.

As for push/pull not making a huge difference, it's not completely true. It's more noticable when you look at lower RPM fans that don't move alot of air. Those fans benefit quite a lot from a push/pull configuration.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Truedeal*
> 
> You should test the Delta Mega-fast 120mm fans.
> Which supposedly run up to 7200 rpm and are rated at 252 cfm.
> Might as well be a leaf-blower fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Link: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8147/fan-500/Delta_Mega_Fast_120mm_x_38mm_Fan_-_252_CFM_-_Bare_Lead_PFB1212UHE-F00.html


Yeah, I've already tested those fans and I'm in the process of finishing the review so expect one shortly.


----------



## dhughesuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Fans in series increases the static pressure, so it is most helpful when there is a lot of ventilating resistance. See this diagram. So yes, "the nature of the rig" can "affect this".


thank you very much!


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> As for push/pull not making a huge difference, it's not completely true. It's more noticable when you look at lower RPM fans that don't move alot of air. Those fans benefit quite a lot from a push/pull configuration.


Low RPM fans benefit from it more since static pressure decreases with the square of the RPM. See this fan law: New SP/Old SP = (New Speed/Old Speed)2

As you can see, halving the RPM will reduce the SP by 4 times.


----------



## dhughesuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks. I've already said this before, but depening on when you buy it and where you buy it from, it will be a different number everytime so I can't make a chart on that.
> As for push/pull not making a huge difference, it's not completely true. It's more noticable when you look at lower RPM fans that don't move alot of air. Those fans benefit quite a lot from a push/pull configuration.
> Yeah, I've already tested those fans and I'm in the process of finishing the review so expect one shortly.


ok that's good to know, apologies for not seeing that you'd said it before and fair enough yeah - maybe go on RRP though it's never accurate it's a ball park but ok and thanks.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> This is why:
> Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:
> Quote:
> doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB
> Quote:
> N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)
> Where: N = noise (dB)
> Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.


I missed that equation. If that is accurate, that would be a very good way of comparing fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Noise to temperature results are re-uploaded to post #1. Silverstone FM121 and Noctua NF-P12 used to dominate that area. Now though, Zalman is butting in and Cooler Master isn't far behind. Cooler master fans are a bargain though. If you're short on cash, those are the ones to get.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> This is why:
> Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:
> Quote:
> doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB
> Quote:
> N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)
> Where: N = noise (dB)
> Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.
> 
> 
> 
> I missed that equation. If that is accurate, that would be a very good way of comparing fans.
Click to expand...

It is accurate, but there are more variables to account for when the fans are on a heat sink and in a case. However, you could use it to compare fans that had their specs measured with the same method, and don't have any noise issues at particular RPMs. Here are important factors to consider when comparing acoustical data.

Check out my "*Information on Fans*" sig link if you would like to know more.


----------



## dhughesuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Cooler master fans are a bargain though. If you're short on cash, those are the ones to get.


----------



## dhughesuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Check out my "*Information on Fans*" sig link if you would like to know more.


Amazing. Thanks.


----------



## Gabedamien

[Redacted; I misread one post]

Good work guys. Ideally we could graph all the noise-to-temp curves for each fan varying along its RPMs. But of course this only applies to the specific setup used; a higher or lower impedance environment, or higher/lower ambient temp, could have variable impact on each fan and result in different shifts. In other words, the ranking established with this method is not necessarily invariable. Unfortunately, there is no physical ratio intrinsic to a fan that will result in truly invariable rankings of fan models for any arbitrary environment. But this method at least has strong predictive power for most generic setups.


----------



## Gabedamien

Wait, I just read how you are determining the noise-to-temp rating. Simple addition is not a mathematically valid way to create a useful comparative rating in this case. Comparing noise and temperature is the ultimate goal, yes, but your additive method just doesn't make physical sense. It treats 1 dBa and 1 °C as functionally equivalent values, both equally weighted. But in reality, a 10 dB difference at low temps is much more significant than a 10°C change, whereas a 10°C difference at critical temps is much more significant than a 10 dB change. Another example:

FAN A: +70°C ∆T at 10 dB
FAN B: +50°C ∆T at 30 dB

Your ranking system gives both of these fans an identical NTT rating of 9.0. But anyone with sense would choose FAN B over FAN A. So what good is your rating? It only works when you hold one value (either noise or ∆T) constant between both fans; but if you do that, there is no need to do any additional arithmetic, because you have a single frame of reference. You might as well simply quote the other variable (the one that varies between the two fans for that reference level):

FAN C: +41°C ∆T at 25 dB
FAN D: +48°C ∆T at 25 dB

SPCR deals with this in a very good way; they create three reference sound levels (e.g. 11 dB, 16 dB, 21 dB) and show the ∆T for each. Another way would be to create a more detailed noise-to-temp curve for each fan as it varies along its RPMs, and graph them all together (this is essentially just a richer visual representation of SPCR's coarser review method). You cannot reduce the matter of interest to a single value, however, since it's an inverse relationship with a non-linear curve.

If it WAS linear, the relationship would be:

∆T = R x (dB) + i

You can immediately see that even an inverse linear relationship is problematic since both the slope R and the non-trivial intercept i are germane to our concerns. On a dB vs CFM graph the intercept is zero, so we can simply refer to the noise/CFM ratio as a good comparative ratio between fan designs. Of course, in reality, even noise vs CFM is not actually linear, so that is better represented graphically.

In any case, directly adding noise and temps is physically meaningless and does not reflect any kind of real-world relationship between these values. More critically, it is simply not useful.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabedamien*
> 
> Wait, I just read how you are determining the noise-to-temp rating. Simple addition is not a mathematically valid way to create a useful comparative rating in this case. Comparing noise and temperature is the ultimate goal, yes, but your additive method just doesn't make physical sense. It treats 1 dBa and 1 °C as functionally equivalent values, both equally weighted. But in reality, a 10 dB difference at low temps is much more significant than a 10°C change, whereas a 10°C difference at critical temps is much more significant than a 10 dB change. Another example:
> 
> FAN A: +70°C ∆T at 10 dB
> FAN B: +50°C ∆T at 30 dB
> 
> Your ranking system gives both of these fans an identical NTT rating of 9.0. But anyone with sense would choose FAN B over FAN A. So what good is your rating? It only works when you hold one value (either noise or ∆T) constant between both fans; but if you do that, there is no need to do any additional arithmetic, because you have a single frame of reference. You might as well simply quote the other variable (the one that varies between the two fans for that reference level):
> 
> FAN C: +41°C ∆T at 25 dB
> FAN D: +48°C ∆T at 25 dB
> 
> SPCR deals with this in a very good way; they create three reference sound levels (e.g. 11 dB, 16 dB, 21 dB) and show the ∆T for each. Another way would be to create a more detailed noise-to-temp curve for each fan as it varies along its RPMs, and graph them all together (this is essentially just a richer visual representation of SPCR's coarser review method). You cannot reduce the matter of interest to a single value, however, since it's an inverse relationship with a non-linear curve.
> 
> If it WAS linear, the relationship would be:
> 
> ∆T = R x (dB) + i
> 
> You can immediately see that even an inverse linear relationship is problematic since both the slope R and the non-trivial intercept i are germane to our concerns. On a dB vs CFM graph the intercept is zero, so we can simply refer to the noise/CFM ratio as a good comparative ratio between fan designs. Of course, in reality, even noise vs CFM is not actually linear, so that is better represented graphically.
> 
> In any case, directly adding noise and temps is physically meaningless and does not reflect any kind of real-world relationship between these values. More critically, it is simply not useful.


Thanks for confirming what I had said earlier. +rep

dBA to CFM would look like something like this:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9186/testchartfine1.png

As you can see, the CFM starts to increase more per dBA. That's probably due to: P2 = P1 (RPM2 / RPM1)2. CFM and RPM and linear, but pressure is not. In fact, it looks a bit like the inverse of a SP:RPM graph.

Also, it seems like you know a lot more than me. So I'll let you do the explaining









*Edit:* If you add RPM to the NTT graphs, you will see that it favors low RPM fans (which I said before). So it doesn't work in practice either.


----------



## Gabedamien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Thanks for confirming what I had said earlier. +rep
> 
> ...Also, it seems like you know a lot more than me. So I'll let you do the explaining
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* If you add RPM to the NTT graphs, you will see that it favors low RPM fans (which I said before). So it doesn't work in practice either.


Thanks. I just now read through the entire thread so that I knew what was going on, and I have a couple of comments. I would actually say that you have a stronger knowledge of the physics than I have; my background in mathematics and basic sciences simply gave me enough insight to recognize that this value was not useful, and corroborate your earlier assertions.

*Cyclops*, please note the following, with my humble thanks for your attention on this matter:

First and foremost, your testing of all these fans is very welcome and useful and has produced a lot of valuable data. I do not in any way want to minimize your considerable effort, nor its practical yield.
The main, perhaps the only thing I (and others) object to is the mathematically/physically invalid invention of your NTT rating. It simply isn't a meaningful interpretation of the data. It may look grossly right when you compare an extremely low noise fan to an extremely high noise fan, but for everything in between the distinctions are not necessarily indicative of anything at all.
My proposal is that you simply eliminate the NTT rating, both from your tables and from the page 1 graphs. Instead, an extremely effective and useful ranking method would be to plot the noise vs ∆T curves for each fan onto a single graph. Obviously this may end up very difficult to read if ALL fans are included, so solutions could include grouping fans by category and making several graphs, or (if someone has the scripting chops for it) creating a dynamic (e.g. javascript) graph with toggled fans. Of course I don't expect you to expend this extra energy; but perhaps you could make your raw data available so a volunteer could produce said graphs. Someone could of course go through and copy all the values manually... but that someone wouldn't be me.








Sincerely,
-G


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabedamien*
> I would actually say that you have a stronger knowledge of the physics than I have


Everything I've learned about fans was through the internet and a lot of it can be found in my signature "Information on Fans". So for now that may be true, but the information is readily available to everyone if they know where to look (Google).

However I haven't seen this before:

∆T = R x (dB) + i

So you probably know a lot more physics than me, just not much about fans. Also, you should mentioned what R and i represent so people won't have this reaction









I think I should mention that I haven't read everything in my sig, or understood all of it. Enough to get by I suppose. And If I need to know something in particular, then I can look it up quickly.


----------



## Gabedamien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> However I haven't seen this before:
> ∆T = R x (dB) + i


LOL, that's just a hypothetical formula I came up with to illustrate how it would work IF (which is almost certainly not the case) it was an inverse linear relationship. It's just a line of the ordinary old y=mx+b definition. "R" I chose because it is the *R*atio, and "i" because it's the *i*ntercept. Physically, "R" would have represented how rapidly the ∆T decreases for a given increase in noise, and "i" would represent the ∆T for that fan at zero noise (physically impossible unless the noise wasn't even moving, so it's just a projection necessary to place the curve at the correct y-height).

Anyway I will definitely read through your sig's materials, it looks like there's some great stuff in there.

Cheers,
-G


----------



## Cyclops

I'm not gonna entertain any more trolls







.


----------



## Gabedamien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm not gonna entertain any more trolls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Acknowledging your considerable and useful work, identifying and corroborating the single criticism thereof, and proposing a viable solution counts as trolling?







If my sincere, reasoned, and respectful comments are not welcome, you have only to ignore them... but if you prefer to dismiss me as a troll, so be it, I'll yield the floor and not post in this thread further.

Disappointing.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm not gonna entertain any more trolls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I kinda think they're right.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #27 - Xigmatek XAF-F1253:



A little bit ineficcient for the amount of noise it puts out, but if you like orange fans with white LEDs then this is the one







.

As always pictures are on post #2


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #28 - Xigmatek CLF-F1255:



This is Xigmatek XLF's little sister. Acoustics are much better than the XLF but you lose a bit of aiflow as expected.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #29 - Arctic Cooling F12 PWM:



Acrtic cooling sent me a couple of fans to test and review, this is the first of the bunch.

The F12 PWM is near silent in push mode, but when you add another fan for push/pull, the noise goes up by 7 decibels.

This fan, and the rest of the 120mm fans that Arctic Cooling sent me, all come with a feature called the "PST" or "PWM Sharing Technology". In essence, you can plug in as many of these fans to a single 3/4 pin fan header on your motherboard and have them all operate at the same speed. It makes cable management a bit messy, but if you've got alot of fans in your chassis and not enough fan headers on your motherboard, then you can employ these fans and still have control over all of them without a need for Y-adapters or splitters.

The packaging is very economical in size which is pretty much exactly the same size as the fan.

As always pictures are in post #2.


----------



## nleksan

Just wanted to jump in and say that this is awesome, and it's incredibly generous of you to use your time like this to better the community knowledge bank









If you ever would want any help in charting/graphing fans, such as delta-t vs dB vs RPM or whatever, I would be more than happy to assist in any way possible! Gotta keep this THE premiere computer enthusiast site in the world, and people like you are a big reason for that.

Thumbs up (







there ya go), thanks for making me happy (







), and carry on (







). You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Just wanted to jump in and say that this is awesome, and it's incredibly generous of you to use your time like this to better the community knowledge bank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you ever would want any help in charting/graphing fans, such as delta-t vs dB vs RPM or whatever, I would be more than happy to assist in any way possible! Gotta keep this THE premiere computer enthusiast site in the world, and people like you are a big reason for that.
> Thumbs up (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there ya go), thanks for making me happy (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and carry on (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.


Thank you. That's more than enough positive energy for me to continue my work







.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #30 - Arctic Cooling F12 Pro PWM:



I feel a bit silly testing these things on my usual rig. These fans are designed to be mounted in a chassis as an exhaust solution. They have no place on a heatsink nor do they have the neccesary mounting options to use them as such. I thought it would be interesting to see the performance, which is not that good, although you need to understand that they are not built for heatsinks.

Other than that, they use the "PST" technology as do alot of other Arctic Cooling fans. Look at post #181 for more details on the PST.


----------



## PCCstudent

I ask why no mention of San Ace fans? They are expensive but do get the job done.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCCstudent*
> 
> I ask why no mention of San Ace fans? They are expensive but do get the job done.


I don't have any samples of them so here we are.


----------



## chinesethunda

blademasters, 2500rpm sickleflows, those could be some testing ones, how many do you need of each fan to test, just 2 right? I might be able to send you those 2 sets to test


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> blademasters, 2500rpm sickleflows, those could be some testing ones, how many do you need of each fan to test, just 2 right? I might be able to send you those 2 sets to test


Yeah, just two. Appreciate the help. Are they brand new though? With packaging and everything? I need them to be since I take pictures of every fan and it's accessories..


----------



## chinesethunda

oh.. hmm i threw away the packaging for them, nvm then, i just have too many spare fans sitting around but they have all been in my case at one point in time.


----------



## adridu59

Why don't you test as case fans ?


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> If you ever would want any help in charting/graphing fans, such as delta-t vs dB vs RPM or whatever


A ΔT vs dB graph would be infinitely more useful than the current Noise to Temperature Rating. Anyone else think so?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Why don't you test as case fans ?


It's already been done.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #31 - Arctic Cooling F12 Pro PWM CO:



The final 120mm fan from Arctic Cooling that was sent to me. Comparing it to the PWM version (F12 Pro PWM), It makes more noise and doesn't cool as well so the conclusion is pretty obvious: Go with the the regular PWM model.

Pictures on post #2.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #32 - Xigmatek XLF-F1256:



Last of the fans that Xigmatek sent me, The CLF seems to be a better choice though as it's quieter and performs slightly better.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

AMAZING THREAD! Let me know if you every need any help in anyway. I have done a small scale similar test with my setup. It is in my sig.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> AMAZING THREAD! Let me know if you every need any help in anyway. I have done a small scale similar test with my setup. It is in my sig.


Thanks, I can always use more fans







.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks, I can always use more fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Me too.


----------



## Cyclops

Time for some updates and news.

Bad news first. I noticed that over time similar performing fans weren't performing so similar anymore. I re-tested a few fans from the past and they were running 3-6 degrees hotter. I took off the heatsink and applied new thermal paste (Xigmatek Freezing Point G4718). Sure enough I noticed a massive temperature drop (Up to 10 C). What this means is that I have to re-test ALL of the fans that I've already done, again.

Good news. It's not gonna take as long as when I went through everything again the first time (DB-Meter dilemma), so it shouldn't take more that a few days. Stay tuned for regular updates.

Another good news. As some of you may or may not know, I'm building a 140mm testing rig and I pretty much have all the parts for the job. Processor will be an i5 2500K that I'll roughly feed 1.45 volts to. The cooler will be a Xigmatek Prime SD1484. I haven't chosen a motherboard yet but I've asked a few manufacturers if they can provide me with one. We'll see how that pans out.


----------



## Cyclops




----------



## Cyclops

Xigmatek's 120mm fans in all their glory:







The CLF Series seems to be the most efficient of the three.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Xigmatek's 120mm fans in all their glory:
> 
> 
> 
> The CLF Series seems to be the most efficient of the three.


Looking forward to it boss!


----------



## Cyclops

Arctic Cooling's 120mm fans in all their glory:







The F12 PWM seems to be most efficient of the three. Bear in mind that the Pro PWM isn't designed for heatsinks.


----------



## Cyclops

Here's some more re-visits:


----------



## Cyclops

Christmas is here already:


----------



## Cyclops

How about Halloween?


----------



## darivo

awesome review Cyclops!

do you know about new Swiftech Hellix?

TY for your work


----------



## deafboy

Kind of want to send you fans to test


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darivo*
> 
> awesome review Cyclops!
> do you know about new Swiftech Hellix?
> TY for your work


Well I know they exist, that's as much as I know about Helix.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deafboy*
> 
> Kind of want to send you fans to test


Just kind of?


----------



## darivo

ahahah

only i was thinking about if you reviewed it









bye


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Keep em coming!


----------



## deafboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well I know they exist, that's as much as I know about Helix.
> Just kind of?


You'd need 2, yes?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deafboy*
> 
> You'd need 2, yes?


Yeah, since I test P/P.


----------



## Cyclops

Tada







Some strong contenders here, both in quietness and performance departments.


----------



## Katcilla

Wow, Cyclops, you're really cranking them out! Glad to see you seem to have stabilized your readings a bit. Anyway, I'm looking forward to any 140mm fans you might be testing in the future, and I want to re-suggest you try and get hold of some Prolimatech Blue Vortex fans if you can.
Keep up the good work, sir!


----------



## ShadowEW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Arctic Cooling's 120mm fans in all their glory:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F12 PWM seems to be most efficient of the three. Bear in mind that the Pro PWM isn't designed for heatsinks.


I have to say, these fans are superb. I managed to acquire 2 of them through sales with Aria, never paid more than £1 for one of them either.
Currently attached to my Corsair A70 in Llano, temperatures (I'll get back to you with / update this message as I can't quite remember off the top of my head) aren't high but they are bliss. Especially for this computer being situated in my room, on 24/7.. The room barely feels like it heats up, especially in comparison to stock Corsair fans (oddly enough my room started to heat up after a few days.. o-o).


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowEW*
> 
> I have to say, these fans are superb. I managed to acquire 2 of them through sales with Aria, never paid more than £1 for one of them either.
> Currently attached to my Corsair A70 in Llano, temperatures (I'll get back to you with / update this message as I can't quite remember off the top of my head) aren't high but they are bliss. Especially for this computer being situated in my room, on 24/7.. The room barely feels like it heats up, especially in comparison to stock Corsair fans (oddly enough my room started to heat up after a few days.. o-o).


Well, yes these are very good fans, however, the issue with your room heating up, has nothing to do with what fans you use. Your processor is going to generate the same amount of heat if you use the same process to put it under load, so it doesn't matter which fan you use on your heatsink. The heat generated will always be the same regardless of whether or not you're using fans or a passive setup to cool your processor down.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katcilla*
> 
> Wow, Cyclops, you're really cranking them out! Glad to see you seem to have stabilized your readings a bit. Anyway, I'm looking forward to any 140mm fans you might be testing in the future, and I want to re-suggest you try and get hold of some Prolimatech Blue Vortex fans if you can.
> Keep up the good work, sir!


Thank you. Well, the 140mm rig will be finished soon. About those Prolimatech fans, I used to have a good relationship with the company, and now they have stoped replying to my messages for some reason and I'm being completely ignored. Kind of childish really, but that's how it is right now.


----------



## Katcilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thank you. Well, the 140mm rig will be finished soon. About those Prolimatech fans, I used to have a good relationship with the company, and now they have stoped replying to my messages for some reason and I'm being completely ignored. Kind of childish really, but that's how it is right now.


That sucks, I've had a few email conversations with their customer service and they've always been polite. I don't know what could be happening in your case, but still. That sucks. I hope you don't completely discount them but if you can't get any of their fans then it's all good.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katcilla*
> 
> That sucks, I've had a few email conversations with their customer service and they've always been polite. I don't know what could be happening in your case, but still. That sucks. I hope you don't completely discount them but if you can't get any of their fans then it's all good.


Well I asked them three times if they would like to send me a pair of Vortex 14s, and they never replied back. I assume that it's because I didn't give their products a favorable review. I've seen it in the past that they cut ties with reviewers or websites that don't give their stuff a good rating so again, it's kind of childish but here we are.


----------



## ShadowEW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, yes these are very good fans, however, the issue with your room heating up, has nothing to do with what fans you use. Your processor is going to generate the same amount of heat if you use the same process to put it under load, so it doesn't matter which fan you use on your heatsink. The heat generated will always be the same regardless of whether or not you're using fans or a passive setup to cool your processor down.


Totally agree with that, but that's the more peculiar part.. Ambient/Outdoor temperature remained about the same across the week I swapped out the fans, CPU load remaining at a static 95-100% through out too.
Surely the downtime of about half an hour to change fans and set things back up wouldn't of caused that much of change in room temperature, also in terms of people/body heat in the room there's been no major differences..

But yeah, I know there's quite a lot of external factors to take into consideration, from other computer components to devices in the room to how often the sun was shining onto the curtains of my room.. Just felt quite odd that the room felt cooler, and still seems cooler than it's ever been with that same rig running.









Who knows what'll of caused that, but in terms of CPU temperatures it's definitely lower.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowEW*
> 
> Totally agree with that, but that's the more peculiar part.. Ambient/Outdoor temperature remained about the same across the week I swapped out the fans, CPU load remaining at a static 95-100% through out too.
> Surely the downtime of about half an hour to change fans and set things back up wouldn't of caused that much of change in room temperature, also in terms of people/body heat in the room there's been no major differences..
> But yeah, I know there's quite a lot of external factors to take into consideration, from other computer components to devices in the room to how often the sun was shining onto the curtains of my room.. Just felt quite odd that the room felt cooler, and still seems cooler than it's ever been with that same rig running.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows what'll of caused that, but in terms of CPU temperatures it's definitely lower.


Well, who knows, maybe Arctic Cooling fans are magic! or maybe you drank too much vodka when you had the corsair fans and felt hotter














.


----------



## Cyclops

"Normal" Scythe 120mm fans in all their glory:


----------



## doyll

Great bunch of results!









Quick question: I know you give us all the result in delta but am wondering how much the ambient temp varied?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Great bunch of results!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question: I know you give us all the result in delta but am wondering how much the ambient temp varied?


Ambient temp and humidity alongside actual processor temperatures are all in there in the chart, for every fan.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Ambient temp and humidity alongside actual processor temperatures are all in there in the chart, for every fan.


Sorry, my bad.
I knew you were keeping track..


----------



## mrtoyotaco

This is just amazing. What is the best 120mm fan that YOU recommend for case not heatsink?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> . What is the best 120mm fan that YOU recommend for case not heatsink?


I don't know. I've only tested them on a heatsink so I'm afraid my opinion would be biased.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I don't know. I've only tested them on a heatsink so I'm afraid my opinion would be biased.


I still want your biased opinion.


----------



## Someguy316

Wow, nice list. I have quite a few different fans I picked up at random times from Newegg; one of them happens to be the Scythe SY1225SL12M which I'm about to try as a side fan because my SSF21F sounds a bit noisy.

Edit: I just checked and it wasn't an SSF21F, it was the E (SSF21E). No wonder it was reporting a different rpm number; I do have an SSF21F somewhere around here though.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> I still want your biased opinion.


Well you have to wait till I'm finished re-testing all the fans.


----------



## Someguy316

I tried searching but didn't find anything; have you had any experience with GELID fans? I have a Silent 12 TC (perhaps the PWM version is better) but I couldn't really try it fully because my ASUS motherboard software kept reporting it as 800 RPM max when it's supposed to be 1500 RPM; I guess the speed adjusting feature kept it on low..


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> I tried searching but didn't find anything; have you had any experience with GELID fans? I have a Silent 12 TC (perhaps the PWM version is better) but I couldn't really try it fully because my ASUS motherboard software kept reporting it as 800 RPM max when it's supposed to be 1500 RPM; I guess the speed adjusting feature kept it on low..


Nope. Haven't had any GELID fans yet.


----------



## Cyclops

And all Noctua's 120mm fans in all their glory. P12 is still the most efficient:


----------



## gEEKaDE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> I tried searching but didn't find anything; have you had any experience with GELID fans? I have a Silent 12 TC (perhaps the PWM version is better) but I couldn't really try it fully because my ASUS motherboard software kept reporting it as 800 RPM max when it's supposed to be 1500 RPM; I guess the speed adjusting feature kept it on low..


Depends which GELID fans you're talking about.

I am using both the 120mm & 140mm GELID fans with the 120mm one being PWM. They are amazing quiet fans. Even at full rpm they only make wind noise, there is no motor noise at all.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> And all Noctua's 120mm fans in all their glory. P12 is still the most efficient:


Really appreciate all your work!
Looking to go all Noctua with my new Caselabs SM8.
Thank you for the information!


----------



## RKTGX95

Cyclops, AMAZING THREAD!!! thank you for making it









would you recommend the Corsair SP fans for rads? (for something like H80 or XSPC EX)


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> Cyclops, AMAZING THREAD!!! thank you for making it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would you recommend the Corsair SP fans for rads? (for something like H80 or XSPC EX)


I don't know. I don't have all the varients to tell you which one is best, but they do look nice.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> Cyclops, AMAZING THREAD!!! thank you for making it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would you recommend the Corsair SP fans for rads? (for something like H80 or XSPC EX)


I've got the SP120's for my Antec 620 and Corsair H50 coolers. They're amazing fans! I'm quite surprised about how they performed on the charts though...
With a fan controller they're really quiet. I ditched all my of Scythe slipstream fans, those are freaking hair driers in my case. They really have a huge amount of static pressure, plenty to get through my high fpi rads. Definitely well constructed fans and good looking too. I'm sick and tired of the generic looking box fans. I'd recommend them!


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I don't know. I don't have all the varients to tell you which one is best, but they do look nice.


what would OCN do without aesthetics...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> I've got the SP120's for my Antec 620 and Corsair H50 coolers. They're amazing fans! I'm quite surprised about how they performed on the charts though...
> With a fan controller they're really quiet. I ditched all my of Scythe slipstream fans, those are freaking hair driers in my case. They really have a huge amount of static pressure, plenty to get through my high fpi rads. Definitely well constructed fans and good looking too. I'm sick and tired of the generic looking box fans. I'd recommend them!


yeah, i'm sure they are awesome on a fan controller. (which is my little problem)
i just wonder if the Quite Edition are any good.


----------



## Cyclops

Here's some more:


----------



## Cyclops

It's finaly done. That was a marathon:


----------



## Cyclops

Well since I went through every single fan that I tested, again, it's now time for a brand new candidate, Delta PFB1212UHE-F00:



It's the most powerfull and expensive fan I've tested to date. Not surprisingly it's also the loudest. We are way past the point of diminishing returns with this or the CF00. Care should be taken as this or it's little brother are very dangerous when used outside a chassis. If you like your fingers, you will use a fan grill.

I wanna do a crazy test later on. Something like watercooling 3/4 graphics card + CPU by only using a single 120mm radiator and one of these fans. The pressure this thing generates is simply immense.


----------



## Vlodaf

You could build a plane using that thing ^^ Probably sounds like one too...


----------



## Cakewalk_S

http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h100-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

Have you tested the stock Corsair H100 fans? lol look at the specs:
Quote:


> Hydro Series H100:
> 
> Radiator dimensions: 122mm x 275mm x 27mm
> Fan dimensions: 120mm x 120mm x 25mm
> Fan speed: 1300 - 2600RPM
> Fan airflow: 46 - 92 CFM
> Fan dBA: 22 - 39 dBA
> Fan static pressure: 1.6 - 7.7mm/H20


7.7mm/h20 static pressure? lolz


----------



## Slappy Mcgee

+Rep and subbed you this is awesome


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h100-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html
> Have you tested the stock Corsair H100 fans? lol look at the specs:
> 7.7mm/h20 static pressure? lolz


Yes, I have.


----------



## Cyclops

Finaly done!! All the results have been updated at post #1. 33 fans on the table and more to come.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan #34 - Silverstone Air Penetrator SST-AP122:



Silverstone sent me a pair of these to test and review. I always thought the "focused airflow" was a gimmick but it actually works. The fan is very quiet, near silent even, but I can feel the air that is being moved in front of the fan about a meter away. It's quite effective in cooling a heatsink if you use one in push mode. Push/pull barely improved the temperatures and pull is just not effecient enough to get a recommendation from me.

They did send me the 1200 RPM version (AP-122) which is very hard to find on the web. I'm looking forward to test the more common 1500 RPM sku (AP-121).


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Fan #34 - Silverstone Air Penetrator SST-AP122:
> 
> Silverstone sent me a pair of these to test and review. I always thought the "focused airflow" was a gimmick but it actually works. The fan is very quiet, near silent even, but I can feel the air that is being moved in front of the fan about a meter away. It's quite effective in cooling a heatsink if you use one in push mode. Push/pull barely improved the temperatures and pull is just not effecient enough to get a recommendation from me.
> They did send me the 1200 RPM version (AP-122) which is very hard to find on the web. I'm looking forward to test the more common 1500 RPM sku (AP-121).


Interesting results, I am planning on getting a pair of AP-141 model(139mm, 1500rpm, FDB) for my R4 as front intake and it is good to know "focused airflow" works.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Recommendations yet?


----------



## mtbiker033

very well done testing / thread / reference! +1


----------



## ivanlabrie

I'm liking the Corsair sp120 fans...and the Silverstones.

What price does that last fan command?

Do you have any Sunbeam fdb fans to test?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> I still want your biased opinion.


I'd say you want the best pull fans with good noise levels while doing so...that would give you an idea of filtered case fan performance.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I'd say you want the best pull fans with good noise levels while doing so...that would give you an idea of filtered case fan performance.


I dont care about sound.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Easy peasy









Get the highest cfm and pressure rated fans in here...








Overall I think the Silverstone fm121's are beasts or the Ultra Kaze's.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Easy peasy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get the highest cfm and pressure rated fans in here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall I think the Silverstone fm121's are beasts or the Ultra Kaze's.


Look in my sig.


----------



## ivanlabrie

That's some nasty rpm there









I like Nidec fans, pretty cheap when bought from China, and they are quite violent.









OP, you should get a hold of those double bladed Nidec 6800rpm fans, or perhaps others like those.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Do you have any Sunbeam fdb fans to test?


Nope.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> Recommendations yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont care about sound.


Well if you want the best and don't care about sound then I don't see why you wouldn't look at the temperature list and get the fan that's on top, which would be the Delta.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> That's some nasty rpm there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like Nidec fans, pretty cheap when bought from China, and they are quite violent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OP, you should get a hold of those double bladed Nidec 6800rpm fans, or perhaps others like those.


I do value my fingers. I don't have any right now.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I do value my fingers. I don't have any right now.


lol

I see, it's kinda hard to type let alone game with only two fingers or so xD
Thanks for such an awesome thread.


----------



## Conspiracy

im am curious to know how the corsair SP120 quiet edition ones with high static pressure stack up against most of these. im having trouble finding anything thats a better deal than a twin pack of SP120 quiet edition for $27 on newegg


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> lol
> I see, it's kinda hard to type let alone game with only two fingers or so xD
> Thanks for such an awesome thread.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conspiracy*
> 
> im am curious to know how the corsair SP120 quiet edition ones with high static pressure stack up against most of these. im having trouble finding anything thats a better deal than a twin pack of SP120 quiet edition for $27 on newegg


Well, why don't you buy two packs and send me the other one to test ^_^.


----------



## Conspiracy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, why don't you buy two packs and send me the other one to test ^_^.


if i find another $27 laying on the ground ill do that


----------



## Cyclops

Well, I'm now officially out of 120mm fans, so I either have to buy a few more to test or poke some sponsors.


----------



## Conspiracy

poking can be fun sometimes


----------



## Vlodaf

*ugh*ugh* Noiseblocker Eloops *ugh*ugh*


----------



## RKTGX95

Cyclops, in your (don't care if biased) opinion, which fans are the best cheap fans? (Zalman? Scythe? else?)

btw, have you considered doing rad testing or just open air testing?
nevertheless, thanks for all of your hard work!

(edit, post #500







. small but an important milestone for me







)


----------



## Speshy

I'd like to see what you make of Bifenix Spectre Pro PWM's.
I have a few, and I'm not too impressed. If you weren't an ocean away I'd happily lend a couple for review.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> Cyclops, in your (don't care if biased) opinion, which fans are the best cheap fans? (Zalman? Scythe? else?)
> btw, have you considered doing rad testing or just open air testing?


Cheapest fan is the Cooler Master S12 R4-S2S-124K-GP

I just finished building a 140mm testing rig. I'll need sponsers to build another chassis for radiator testing.


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Cheapest fan is the Cooler Master S12 R4-S2S-124K-GP
> I just finished building a 140mm testing rig. I'll need sponsers to build another chassis for radiator testing.


great to hear about the 140 testing rig







(too bad my current case doesn't support them







, but maybe a new case might enter the picture







)

unfortunately, i don't have the ability to get the CM fans, any recommendations for other fans? (or there isn't any real difference)

someone should find you sponsors! come on peeps!


----------



## Truedeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, I'm now officially out of 120mm fans, so I either have to buy a few more to test or poke some sponsors.


I don't think you covered the 120mm Aerocool Shark fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> great to hear about the 140 testing rig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (too bad my current case doesn't support them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , but maybe a new case might enter the picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> unfortunately, i don't have the ability to get the CM fans, any recommendations for other fans? (or there isn't any real difference)
> someone should find you sponsors! come on peeps!


Thanks. Well the price varies from region to region so you have to look for that your self.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Truedeal*
> 
> I don't think you covered the 120mm Aerocool Shark fans.


I did.


----------



## RKTGX95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well the price varies from region to region so you have to look for that your self.


yeah, i figured. anyway, it turns out that the cheapest fan here is the ZM-F3 at ~10$ and 3$ above it the Scythe fans with the FDB bearing (Kama Flow 2)

btw, have you considered doing one of those smoke tests? (if anyone would be so kind to give you a smoke machine)


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RKTGX95*
> 
> btw, have you considered doing one of those smoke tests? (if anyone would be so kind to give you a smoke machine)


I don't know. I've always been against smoking


----------



## Cyclops

Good news. The 140mm rig is finaly finished and I have now moved on to the overclocking portion of the build.

Here are the specs:

Xigmatek Prime SD1484
i5 2500K
MSI Z77A-GD55
4 GB (2 x 2GB) Crucial Ballistix @ 1333 MHz 1.25v
SeaSonic X series SS-400FL
Corsair Force 3 60 GB
Lian Li Pitstop PC-T60













As with the old rig, this one is 100% passive with no moving parts to generate any noise, that is till I mount a fan to the heatsink.

I cut the extra fins on the memory sticks for them not to interfere with the exhaust flow. I should also mention that the memory natively runs at 1866 MHz with 9-9-9-27 timings @ 1.5 volts. I lowered the frequency to 1333 MHz with the same timing but reduced the voltage to 1.25 volts. I did this to minimzie heat generation that could affect the results. ANOTHER thing I did was to put both sticks in the furthest memory sloths so that they wouldn't cause problems with larger fans, meaning that they're running in single channel mode which doesn't really matter in my test suit.

Many thanks to Xigmatek for providng me with the heatsink and extra fans.

PS: The rig boots from loading screen into windows in less than 4 seconds which I find astonishing.


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Good news. The 140mm rig is finaly finished and I have now moved on to the overclocking portion of the build.
> Here are the specs:
> Xigmatek Prime SD1484
> i5 2500K
> MSI Z77A-GD55
> 4 GB (2 x 2GB) Crucial Ballistix @ 1333 MHz 1.25v
> SeaSonic X series SS-400FL
> Corsair Force 3 60 GB
> Lian Li Pitstop PC-T60
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As with the old rig, this one is 100% passive with no moving parts to generate any noise, that is till I mount a fan to the heatsink.
> I cut the extra fins on the memory sticks for them not to interfere with the exhaust flow. I should also mention that the memory natively runs at 1866 MHz with 9-9-9-27 timings @ 1.5 volts. I lowered the frequency to 1333 MHz with the same timing but reduced the voltage to 1.25 volts. I did this to minimzie heat generation that could affect the results. ANOTHER thing I did was to put both sticks in the furthest memory sloths so that they wouldn't cause problems with larger fans, meaning that they're running in single channel mode which doesn't really matter in my test suit.
> Many thanks to Xigmatek for providng me with the heatsink and extra fans.
> PS: The rig boots from loading screen into windows in less than 4 seconds which I find astonishing.






This board is amazing.


----------



## ivanlabrie

That testbed looks amazing! Eager to see some results...
Thermalright should send you two ty143's!


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Also, Can you even get a ram slot in DIMM 2? Or did you purposely choose to put them (like you said) in DIMM 3 and 4 in single channel mode and trimmed for lower temps? Im just curious if you even could if you wanted to.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtoyotaco*
> 
> Also, Can you even get a ram slot in DIMM 2? Or did you purposely choose to put them (like you said) in DIMM 3 and 4 in single channel mode and trimmed for lower temps? Im just curious if you even could if you wanted to.


Yeah, I could have but the fan was brushing against it and I thought I might as well move it to the other sloth so I wouldn't have to worry about any complications with larger fans that I would have to test in the future.


----------



## Conspiracy

awesome setup! cant wait to see some results from your 140mm tests


----------



## mrtoyotaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, I could have but the fan was brushing against it and I thought I might as well move it to the other sloth so I wouldn't have to worry about any complications with larger fans that I would have to test in the future.


Thought so. To fit any RAM period in my first DIMM I would have to run my EVO horizontally.


----------



## sherlock

What 140mm are you planning on testing? I would definitely want to see TY143 & T.B Vegas Duo.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> What 140mm are you planning on testing? I would definitely want to see TY143 & T.B Vegas Duo.


These are what I have in stock right now:

Xigmatek XAF F1452
Arctic Cooling F14 PWM
Phanteks PH-F140TS
NZXT FN-140RB
NZXT DF1402512SEMN (Switch 810 Fans)
Scythe Slip Stream Kaze Maru 2 SM1425SL12H
Thermalright TR TY-150
Fractal Design FD-FAN-140 (Arc Mini fans)
Yate Loon D14SH-12
Rosewill DF1402512SELN-GP (Blackhawk Ultra fans)
In Win DFS132512L (Dragon Slayer fans)


----------



## Vlodaf

Might I put in a request for the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140mm fans, Noiseblocker PK fans and possibly the Corsair AF140 fans? You're doing an awesome job by the way!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlodaf*
> 
> Might I put in a request for the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140mm fans, Noiseblocker PK fans and possibly the Corsair AF140 fans? You're doing an awesome job by the way!


Well you can leave any requests you'd like, but without capital, not many of them can be fulfilled







.

I'll ask the companies for their support. We'll see if they agree to send me a couple of samples.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #1 - Xigmatek XAF-F1452:



This is the first ever 140mm fan to be tested on the brand new rig. The fan is 140mm in diameter but comes wtih 120mm mounting holes. Fear not though, as they include four little extending arms that you can use if your chassis only has spacing for a 140mm fan. It also comes with an uncommon Aeronautical Oil System bearing which I know not much about, but apprently it has a much longer life span than the bearings of the included heatsink fan (150k hours compared to 40K hours).

The RPM is very consistent in every single operating mode so naturaly the acoustics are just as good and are not likely to change rapidly.

Besides that, I can't really tell you how well or bad the fan is performing since it's the first one to be tested, so we'll see how it'll stack up with the competition.

PS: Don't compare the results of any 140mm fans to any 120mm fans. They're tested using different hardware and equipment so a direct comparison is totaly pointless.

PPS: I'll make a chart as soon as I've tested five 140mm fans, so be patient.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Thanks man! I love how this thread is coming along.


----------



## Cyclops

Just a small update but since alot of these 140mm fans come with 120mm mounting holes, I decided to include that in the spreadsheet that I make for each prdouct.


----------



## Conspiracy

dude you are awesome. i cant wait to see the 140mm results to see if any strike me as one to replace the front intake on my case with


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #2 - Arctic Cooling F14 PWM:



Pretty efficient and quiet product. As with other Arctic Cooling fans, the packaging is very economical in size.

It comes with PST or PWM Sharing Techology, basically allowing you to connect as many fans as you'd like to a single fan header and operate them in PWM mode. Quite a clever trick if you don't have that many fan connectors on your motherboard.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #3 - Phanteks PH-F140TS:



I've never had a fan that came with so many accessories. Apart from the 4 regular fan screwes, you get 4 rubber mounting grommets plus another 8 sticky ones to attach to the fan for even further vibration/sound dampening. You get 2 low noise adaptors (fan speed reducers) which can render the unit completely silent alongside a 3-pin to molex adaptor. On top of it all, a special PCI bracket is included with which you can attach a fan to the side of your graphics card sloth to further cool the GPU or the motherboard.

The build quality is excellent. The braiding is even better and every single cable is in white and not the usual ugly black/red/yellow. Aesthetically, it's very pleasing and the performance is great as well.

At 20 dolars a pop (NCIX) it's not for everyone, but it's a premium product so the price is justifiable.

As always, you can see the pictures on post #3.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Prolimatech Vortex -aluminum version- is really nice...curious to see how it stacks up.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Prolimatech Vortex -aluminum version- is really nice...curious to see how it stacks up.


Not likely I'd get my hands on any.


----------



## ivanlabrie

You'll eventually get some more fans...your testing methodology is flawless.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> your testing methodology is flawless.


I wish the same could be said for the fan rating system.


----------



## RetroSpiderman

Very cool very informative thread, good work.


----------



## breenemeister

Looks like you're a good complement to eHume on the air-cooling front. You guys should collaborate.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *breenemeister*
> 
> Looks like you're a good complement to eHume on the air-cooling front. You guys should collaborate.


That would be nice, although I don't know how to work with him.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I can't wait to see how more 140mm fans do. So far my F14 is doing ok.









I constantly see the b-gears b-blaster recommended on the forums for a 140mm fan.

Thanks for the work.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #4 - Thermalright TR TY-150:



Well, this one is a bit of an oddball. First off, it's not a 140mm fan because the diameter is actually 154mm and the mounting holes are completely unconventional. What I mean is that the holes are in a rectangular arrangement, not square. Horizontally, they're compatible with 140mm mounts but vertically they are in favor with the 120mm's.

As if this wasn't unusual enough, the fan is so big that the blades and the hub came into contact with the heatsink body when I tried to run it in pull mode, so I'm afraid I could only test it in a push configuration. I can't blame the design though as it was meant to be used with Thermalright's own heatsink.

Regardless, this mini monster performed quite well. It moved a lot of air without generating much noise. It's just unfortunate that the unit is difficult to install in a standard chassis or on a heatsink.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

This thread is going to be awesome. Don't get me wrong it already is but this could easilly become the most comprehensive comparison of 140mm fans on the web. You seem to be getting off to a really good start.

I notice that a lot of people seem to recommend the b-gears b-blaster for a 140mm fan. I wasn't a fan but they seem popular for some reason. I'm also pretty intrigued by the Koolance 140mm fan and the Akasa Viper 140, they both seem to be quality fans but there is just so little testing on 140mm fans. I'm excited to see what could become of this thread.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BababooeyHTJ*
> 
> This thread is going to be awesome. Don't get me wrong it already is but this could easilly become the most comprehensive comparison of 140mm fans on the web. You seem to be getting off to a really good start.
> I notice that a lot of people seem to recommend the b-gears b-blaster for a 140mm fan. I wasn't a fan but they seem popular for some reason. I'm also pretty intrigued by the Koolance 140mm fan and the Akasa Viper 140, they both seem to be quality fans but there is just so little testing on 140mm fans. I'm excited to see what could become of this thread.


Thank you. We'll eventually get them all reveiwed, hopefully.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #5 - Rosewill DF1402512SELN-GP:



These are the stock fans that come with Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Chassis, and probably with alot of other Rosewill cases as well.

Nothing remarkable about them, they just work. I don't know if you can buy these fans separately but they are available on Ebay under the Cooler Master brand


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #6 - Noctua NF-P14:



This is Noctua's only 140mm fan on the market at this moment in time. I should mention that these fans are from a NH-C14 CPU cooler, that's why you can't see the box in any of the pictures.

Just like many other Noctua fans, it comes with a variety of accessories. Rubber grommets and case screws are the usual suspects, but you also get 140mm adaptors in case your chassis doesn't have the mounting holes for a 120mm fan. The nice thing about these adaptors is that they have rubber grommets on them to reduce vibration.

Overall, it's a quality product, however, I suspect that there is an issue with the bearing of the fan I used in pull. As you can see from the RPM data, it's spinning much faster than the other fan. Not only that, When I held that particular fan in my hand and spun it a couple of times, I noticed a weird ticking noise coming from the hub which points to a problem with the bearing.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm comparison tables have been uploaded to post #1. Enjoy







.


----------



## Cyclops

Look what came in the mail box today:



Many thanks to Hank from Performance-PCs.com for sending me these samples. Should give me something to work on for a couple of days.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Awesome, I can't wait to see how the spectre pro does.


----------



## Vlodaf

Nice I have a Spectre Pro 140 and the noise it emits is quite pleasant. I don't think it will do very well on a heatsink though


----------



## Cyclops

Guys, I need some help with my 140mm testing rig. As you all know, I'm using a Xigmatek Prime heatsink. The heatsink comes with rubber grommets to mount the fans. Now, the grommets work fine with regular fans, but some case fans have both ends of the screw holes connected to each other and since the rubber grommets are short, I can't mount these fans properly.

Any of you folks now of a way to mount them? As in like special metal clips or extended grommets? anything will help.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Zip-ties?


----------



## Cyclops

I was thinking of something a bit more professional







.

PS: I need it to have proper contact with the heatsink to get consistant results.


----------



## zoidbergslo

http://www.overclock.net/t/753254/ziptie-screw

this is what BababooeyHTJ was thinking about


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Any chance on a test of the various 120mm server-grade fans? or is this guide going to stay strictly with retail fans?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Any chance on a test of the various 120mm server-grade fans? or is this guide going to stay strictly with retail fans?


I don't know of any such fans on the retail market. If you can't buy them then I can't see how they would end up on my test bench.


----------



## ivanlabrie

You can get them from Ebay, the likes of Nidec (who build the GT's) or Panaflos and Sanyo Denki, maybe Sunon and Delta too.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> You can get them from Ebay, the likes of Nidec (who build the GT's) or Panaflos and Sanyo Denki, maybe Sunon and Delta too.


$$$


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> $$$


My bad...yeah, doubt Sanyo will send some for free.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

I was able to snag an embpapst 4412m from a place called PCHub.com.

it's a ridiculous looking fan with some gigantic blades on it. static pressure is through the roof at 8mm/H20


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Guys, I need some help with my 140mm testing rig. As you all know, I'm using a Xigmatek Prime heatsink. The heatsink comes with rubber grommets to mount the fans. Now, the grommets work fine with regular fans, but some case fans have both ends of the screw holes connected to each other and since the rubber grommets are short, I can't mount these fans properly.
> 
> Any of you folks now of a way to mount them? As in like special metal clips or extended grommets? anything will help.


This thread may help:

http://www.overclock.net/t/944527/adapting-gentle-typhoons-and-other-fans-for-the-d14-56k-warning/0_20


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Guys, I need some help with my 140mm testing rig. As you all know, I'm using a Xigmatek Prime heatsink. The heatsink comes with rubber grommets to mount the fans. Now, the grommets work fine with regular fans, but some case fans have both ends of the screw holes connected to each other and since the rubber grommets are short, I can't mount these fans properly.
> Any of you folks now of a way to mount them? As in like special metal clips or extended grommets? anything will help.


*Replace the rubber grommets with longer rubber bits with cord locks to hold fan in place???

*Some small bungee cord/silcone rubber cord with some cord locs on ends? Slip cord through fan mounts and put cord locks on to hold it tight.

Edit: Here's link to rubber and silicone cord 1-30mm diameter in 0.5mm increments
http://www.polymax.co.uk/rubber-cords/silicone-cord/red-silicone-cord

Link to cord locks:
http://www.usalanyards.com/sample-order-cord-locks.aspx


----------



## Cyclops

Thank you guys for the suggestions but I actually came up with something alot simpler. I used a piece of elastic band to secure the fans in place. Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner.


----------



## Vlodaf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thank you guys for the suggestions but I actually came up with something alot simpler. I used a piece of elastic band to secure the fans in place. Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner.


Well, yeah, or you can do that... boring...







Looking forward to some more results!


----------



## doyll

LOL.
Was first thought.








Figured you wanted something with a little more class.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> LOL.
> Was first thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Figured you wanted something with a little more class.


If it was like a permanent mount then sure I would have used something else, but I take fans on and off every few minutes so simple is best in this case.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I like the ziptie screws...but rubber band works too








Looking forward for more testing as well.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #7 - Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140:



It's been a while but I'm back with more fans, in this case, The Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140.

The fan is aesthetically pleasing with solid black braiding. The white frame is removable and has both 120 and 140mm mounting holes as you can see from the photos on post #2. The cooling performance is average and the unit is rather loud so I would recommend a fan controller if they are sensitive to noise.

I have to thank Hank from Performance-PCs.com for sending me a pair of these Spectre Pros to review, as well as a couple of other products you'll get to see in a little while.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #8 - Yate Loon D14SH-12:



This is the loudest and most powerful 140mm fan I've tested to date. This particular version has blue LEDs and spin around 2000 RPM. Not surprisngly, it posted the best temperatures of any fan so far but boy, is it loud.

I bought these specific fans from Performance-PCs.com and I had them sleeved so your version might not look the same.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #9 - NZXT DF1402512SEMN:



These are the fans that come as default with the NZXT Switch 810. I'm not sure if they are the same as the ones with the Phantom 820 so here we are.

The switch 810 has 4 of these fans, and yes I know this is not a case review but I just wanted to point out that one of my ferrets ( I have four of them ) chewed one of the cables, luckily I had enough of them to do a review







.

Well, there's not much to say really other than the fact that it generates alot more noise in pull than push, making a push configuration far more efficient.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #10 - Fractal Design FD-FAN-140:



These are Fractal Design Arc Mini's stock fans. They look quite attractive with their black and white color theme. To my surprise, the cooling efficiency is rather excellent for such quiet fans, but as with a lot of other fans I've taht tested recently, that scenario won't hold water in a pull configuration.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #11 - Cougar CF-T14S:



There isn't much info about these fans on Cougar's website. I assume these are the OEM version of their Vortex series of fans. They are much more plain and without any cable sleeving, they look cheaper as well. Still, for 5 bucks a pop, you could do alot worse, considering that they are really quiet in push mode and have excellent cooling efficiency. Recommended.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 140mm fan #11 - Cougar CF-T14S:
> 
> There isn't much info about these fans on Cougar's website. I assume these are the OEM version of their Vortex series of fans. They are much more plain and without any cable sleeving, they look cheaper as well. Still, for 5 bucks a pop, you could do alot worse, considering that they are really quiet in push mode and have excellent cooling efficiency. Recommended.


I like the push/pull numbers for those...Pretty nice!


----------



## Cyclops

Yeah seems to scale well compared to most other 140mm fans.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Price/performance aswell...I'm liking the Arctic Cooling F12 pwm too, 7 bucks free shipping at flea bay.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #12 - NZXT Performance 140mm Fan FN-140RB:



These are pretty much exactly the same as NZXT DF1402512SEMN which are the stock fans of alot of NZXT cases, including the Switch 810. As you can see the stats are almost identical, the exception being the pull noise. I should state that I use the same fan in pull that I use in push to maintain consistency in every test. While push and push/pull performed exactly the same as the other NZXT product, the pull did not. It actually generated more noise than any other operating mode. I would suspect a faulty fan in this scenario but since the data I got from push and p/p modes are consistent with the other fan, I really don't know what to make of it.


----------



## ZeVo

I think it was the FN series that I remember many people complaining about. I wonder if the FZ ones make the same noise..


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeVo*
> 
> I think it was the FN series that I remember many people complaining about. I wonder if the FZ ones make the same noise..


The FZ is the newer fan series from NZXT listed with an impressed airflow at full blast (1000 rpm).

The fan has a bit loud motor noise at full blast, but it's quiet at 800 rpm.
I'm also quite sure that the listed airflow is exaggerated. LOL

My other Cougar Vortex HDB 140mm (1200rpm) seems quieter than the FZ.


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 140mm fan #11 - Cougar CF-T14S:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't much info about these fans on Cougar's website. I assume these are the OEM version of their Vortex series of fans. They are much more plain and without any cable sleeving, they look cheaper as well. Still, for 5 bucks a pop, you could do alot worse, considering that they are really quiet in push mode and have excellent cooling efficiency. Recommended.


Actually the CF-T14S 140mm and the CF-T12S 120mm are their Turbine series of fans.

I'm quite sure the Turbine fans are the stock fans from the Cougar Solution and the Cougar Evolution cases.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm fan #13 - In Win DFS132512L:



These are the stock fans of the In Win Dragon Slayer chassis and probably alot of other cases from the manufacturer.

Well, these are pure and simple OEM case fans that don't even have a 3-pin fan connector, as a result of that, there was no way for me to gauge the speed. Judging by the noise levels though, I would assume that it's ticking just under 1000 RPM. It's an extremely quiet fan and because of that, the cooling performance suffers quite a bit. The efficiency is still very good and it didn't get much louder in pull than it usualy does in push mode.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm test results have been updated at post #1. Everything should be there for you to view and compare. I hope you guys can appreciate how much time and money I'm putting into this project.


----------



## doyll

Thank you for the great work!









Too bad there's not a TY-140/141/143/145/147.. or all of them.. in the tests, but I understand the problems.


----------



## Someguy316

I bought a Cougar CF-V14HB to use as a side intake fan on my CM 690 II Advanced; I actually found it pretty loud even with the resistor cable. It could be the amount of air it's moving though. Would be interesting to see how it performs compared to the 120mm version.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> I bought a Cougar CF-V14HB to use as a side intake fan on my CM 690 II Advanced; I actually found it pretty loud even with the resistor cable. It could be the amount of air it's moving though. Would be interesting to see how it performs compared to the 120mm version.


You should try a spacer (dead fan hub works). Probably the noise is coming from the fan grills being too close to the blades.


----------



## kmac20

Hey man, great thread. Great deal of thanks to you for doing this all, and providing it in a pre created list form, where its incredibly simple to see how each fan stacks up relatively to each other fan. Furthermore, the fact that you have provided all the categories that I am interested in proves that _you really know your stuff_. Not only in regards to fans, but in regards to your ability to present the most useful information in an _incredibly succinct_ manner. Noise-temperature comparison is such an INCREDIBLY USEFUL CATEGORY, and the fact that you have burdened yourself with this task, going well above and beyond the minimum anyone could ever reasonably expect of someone doing this pro bono....All of this speaks volumes to your intelligence and character. My hats off to you sir, for providing such useful information that once again my mind is blown: _you have done this for free_.

Just one thing: do you happen to have a *spreadsheet* created perhaps? I saw in one post you said it was difficult, so if not i completely understand. In fact, if you would like help entering this into a spread sheet, I am more than happy to offer my typist fingers. Feel free to ask me to enter as much data as you have gathered. You did the work gathering it, and I am using it. The least I can do is offer a contribution in the (meager) way I can. Unfair of me to take take take from this useful thread and give nothing back, is it not?

Also, would you happen to have *higher res graphics*? Higher res bar graphs, higher res screenshots I could look at? The size of those makes it incredibly hard for my horrible eyes to read, glasses or no. If not I'll just keep on squinting, but figured i'd ask!

Finally, would you mind sharing *what ratio you used for your noise/temperature category*? I'm not really understanding what values you used to arrive at these #s. Definitely useful, I would just like to know where this information is being derived from. Obviously your sound measurements are going into play, but I'm not sure how youre arriving at, for example, the 8.95 you did for the NZXT fans temperature/noise rating on the page preceding this one (pg34)? You have measured noise ~39dba and dTemp at ~52 for pull/push, so i'm curious what you used as a formula for arriving at 8.95. Obviously something I personally am just not seeing at the moment, so any further elaboration would be fantastic!

Nothing but thanks and gratitude from me to you man. You have done simply amazing work here, all for free. I really hope people recognize and give you the credit you deserve. I once again take my hat off in reverence! You really went above and beyond here to say the least.


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Someguy316*
> 
> I bought a Cougar CF-V14HB to use as a side intake fan on my CM 690 II Advanced; I actually found it pretty loud even with the resistor cable. It could be the amount of air it's moving though. Would be interesting to see how it performs compared to the 120mm version.


I'm using this fan at the side panel of the 300R case.
At full blast this fan has a weirding noise.
This sound seems to be the turbulence by the air moving inside the case.
I tested blocking the air and this weirding noise gone away.

I'm also a NZXT FZ-140mm owner.
This fan has a bit loud motor noise at full blast (1000rpm).
The Cougar makes a different sound.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Just one thing: do you happen to have a *spreadsheet* created perhaps? I saw in one post you said it was difficult, so if not i completely understand. In fact, if you would like help entering this into a spread sheet, I am more than happy to offer my typist fingers. Feel free to ask me to enter as much data as you have gathered. You did the work gathering it, and I am using it. The least I can do is offer a contribution in the (meager) way I can. Unfair of me to take take take from this useful thread and give nothing back, is it not?
> 
> Also, would you happen to have *higher res graphics*? Higher res bar graphs, higher res screenshots I could look at? The size of those makes it incredibly hard for my horrible eyes to read, glasses or no. If not I'll just keep on squinting, but figured i'd ask!


+1 for *spreadsheet* and *higher resolution images*. But what Cyclops has now is fine for me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Finally, would you mind sharing *what ratio you used for your noise/temperature category*? I'm not really understanding what values you used to arrive at these #s. Definitely useful, I would just like to know where this information is being derived from. Obviously your sound measurements are going into play, but I'm not sure how youre arriving at, for example, the 8.95 you did for the NZXT fans temperature/noise rating on the page preceding this one (pg34)? You have measured noise ~39dba and dTemp at ~52 for pull/push, so i'm curious what you used as a formula for arriving at 8.95. Obviously something I personally am just not seeing at the moment, so any further elaboration would be fantastic!


Please read the following posts about the Noise to Temperature Rating:



Spoiler: 1



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> What does the Noise to Temperature Rating mean? (e.g. C*/W is Celsius per Watt)
> 
> You may be interested in these PDFs and links about fans (uploaded to MediaFire by me):
> http://205.196.123.172/ficnqp8rjrzg/v4d66fn71ktbvdy/Fans.zip
> 
> 
> 
> To clarify, it's not a ratio, it's a rating. I simply add delta temperature to noise and then devide it by 10. It's just a way of showing how much a fan can cool relative to how much noise it produces. Obviously the lower the number, the better the fan performs in that criteria.
> 
> Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it.
Click to expand...







Spoiler: 2



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm gonna clarify this once and for all. The noise to tempertaure rating is there to access how well a fan can cool and how quiet it is. I came up with that equation primarily for quiet fans.
> 
> Here's an example:
> 
> Fan A produces 40 DBs and can keep the delta temperature at 50 C. Fan B produces the same amount of noise, but it's delta temeprature is 45 C. Therefore, Fan A's noise to temperature rating is 9 ( [40+50] /10) and Fan B's rating is 8.5. We can conclude that fan B is performing better than Fan A because it's getting a smaller/lower rating (Lower is better).
> 
> It's all well and good that some fans like Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 can bring the tempertures down to 38.9C (In my test suit), but it does that by generating over 80 DB of noise which is unbearable in a typical household.
> 
> I could have just made noise and temperature charts and leave the rest well enough alone, but I see more and more people going for quieter and more efficient setups. Having something like noise to temperature rating can help choose the best possible fan(s) that are extremely quiet and can also move a decent amount of air at the same time.








Spoiler: 3



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> It's all well and good that some fans like Delta AFB1212GHE-CF00 can bring the tempertures down to 38.9C (In my test suit), but it does that by generating over 80 DB of noise which is unbearable in a typical household.
> 
> 
> 
> The delta temperature is halved when you double the flow rate, which is why there is little benefit to very high RPM fans when your using a heat sink with a low pressure drop. Here's an example:
> 
> Let's assume 0 pressure drop (ventilating resistance, or restriction) to make it easier.
> 
> *Scenario A:*
> 
> Fan A @2000RPM: 50CFM, 2*C ΔT, 40dB
> 
> Fan A @4000RPM: 100CFM, 1*C ΔT, 55dB
> 
> You lower the ΔT by 1*C, but at what cost (in terms of noise)? Well, doubling the RPM will increase the noise by 15dB. Definitely not worth it.
> 
> *Scenario B:*
> 
> Fan A @1000RPM: 25CFM, 10*C ΔT, 25dB
> 
> Fan A @2000RPM: 50CFM, 5*C ΔT, 40dB
> 
> This time your ΔT drops by 5*C. You may have increase the noise by 15dB but Fan A @1000RPM was very quiet, and now the fan is at a tolerable noise level. So with little cost in terms of noise, you have lowered the ΔT by 5*C.
> 
> *Scenario C:*
> 
> Fan A @500RPM: 12.5CFM, 20*C ΔT, 10dB
> 
> Fan A @1000RPM: 25CFM, 10*C ΔT, 25dB
> 
> ΔT is now 10*C lower, but the fan is still very quiet. Quite a large gain for almost no cost in noise.
> 
> *Equations used for the above:*
> 
> CFM = 3.16 x W / ΔT (°F)
> 
> Assuming specific heat and density for sea level.
> 
> CFM2 = CFM1 (RPM2 / RPM1)
> 
> N2 = N1 + 50 log10(RPM2 / RPM1)
> 
> Where: N = noise (dB)
> 
> Assuming speed and noise vary in proportion to the fifth power.
> 
> *Note:* ΔT is the difference between the inlet and outlet temperature of the heat sink and fan/s combination.
> 
> Keep in mind that +10dB is a doubling in noise. Let's add 40*C to the ΔTs since the heat transfer between the CPU and heat sink is not 100% efficient. Based on the above and using your rating, the lower the RPM, the better the fan.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Fan A produces 40 DBs and can keep the delta temperature at 50 C. *Fan B produces the same amount of noise*, but it's delta temeprature is 45 C. Therefore, Fan A's noise to temperature rating is 9 ( [40+50] /10) and Fan B's rating is 8.5. We can conclude that fan B is performing better than Fan A because it's getting a smaller/lower rating (Lower is better).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bold part seems to be the flaw. If noise is constant, then you can compare the fans directly. But with the noise being different for each fan, I believe you have to account for the perceived noise level (+10dB is a doubling in noise). The fans must be compared "apples to apples".
> 
> For example:
> 
> Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
> 
> Fan B @29dB*: 1250RPM, 20*C ΔT
> 
> *Measured 50cm from the intake rather than the standard 1m
> 
> If Fan B was measured at the same distance as Fan A, it would be 6dB louder (when the reflection sound to nearby walls is ignored).
> 
> So now it's:
> 
> Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
> 
> Fan B @35dB: 1250RPM, 20*C ΔT
> 
> Based on your rating (after adding 40*C to ΔT):
> 
> Fan A: 9.8
> 
> Fan B: 9.5
> 
> Fan B is better. Let's see what happens when we double the RPM of Fan B to match that of Fan A:
> 
> Fan A @50dB: 2500RPM, 8*C ΔT
> 
> Fan B @50dB: 2500RPM, 10*C ΔT
> 
> Based on your rating (after adding 40*C to ΔT):
> 
> Fan A: 9.8
> 
> Fan B: 10
> 
> Fan A is better. How can this be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !? Well it seems that the lower the RPM, the more of an advantage the fan has in these zero pressure drop scenarios. Once you add some ventilating resistance, I suspect there will be a certain RPM for the heat sink you are using that will give the fans an unfair advantage when compared using your rating. And that doesn't even account for the fact that dB is not linear.
> 
> You may have already known that fans have a "sweet spot" in terms of pressure drop, but in case you didn't here is a graph that shows it.
> 
> So can you please stop rating the fans this way?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And make sure any replacement equation you use makes sense.
> 
> Hopefully I didn't make any mistakes in the above. If I did, feel free to point them out with evidence to back it up.
> 
> *Edit:* Make sure you read the changes in the latest edit.
Click to expand...







Spoiler: 4



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gabedamien*
> 
> Wait, I just read how you are determining the noise-to-temp rating. Simple addition is not a mathematically valid way to create a useful comparative rating in this case. Comparing noise and temperature is the ultimate goal, yes, but your additive method just doesn't make physical sense. It treats 1 dBa and 1 °C as functionally equivalent values, both equally weighted. But in reality, a 10 dB difference at low temps is much more significant than a 10°C change, whereas a 10°C difference at critical temps is much more significant than a 10 dB change. Another example:
> 
> FAN A: +70°C ∆T at 10 dB
> FAN B: +50°C ∆T at 30 dB
> 
> Your ranking system gives both of these fans an identical NTT rating of 9.0. But anyone with sense would choose FAN B over FAN A. So what good is your rating? It only works when you hold one value (either noise or ∆T) constant between both fans; but if you do that, there is no need to do any additional arithmetic, because you have a single frame of reference. You might as well simply quote the other variable (the one that varies between the two fans for that reference level):
> 
> FAN C: +41°C ∆T at 25 dB
> FAN D: +48°C ∆T at 25 dB
> 
> SPCR deals with this in a very good way; they create three reference sound levels (e.g. 11 dB, 16 dB, 21 dB) and show the ∆T for each. Another way would be to create a more detailed noise-to-temp curve for each fan as it varies along its RPMs, and graph them all together (this is essentially just a richer visual representation of SPCR's coarser review method). You cannot reduce the matter of interest to a single value, however, since it's an inverse relationship with a non-linear curve.
> 
> If it WAS linear, the relationship would be:
> 
> ∆T = R x (dB) + i
> 
> You can immediately see that even an inverse linear relationship is problematic since both the slope R and the non-trivial intercept i are germane to our concerns. On a dB vs CFM graph the intercept is zero, so we can simply refer to the noise/CFM ratio as a good comparative ratio between fan designs. Of course, in reality, even noise vs CFM is not actually linear, so that is better represented graphically.
> 
> In any case, directly adding noise and temps is physically meaningless and does not reflect any kind of real-world relationship between these values. More critically, it is simply not useful.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for confirming what I had said earlier. +rep
> 
> dBA to CFM would look like something like this:
> 
> http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9186/testchartfine1.png
> 
> As you can see, the CFM starts to increase more per dBA. That's probably due to: P2 = P1 (RPM2 / RPM1)2. CFM and RPM and linear, but pressure is not. In fact, it looks a bit like the inverse of a SP:RPM graph.
> 
> Also, it seems like you know a lot more than me. So I'll let you do the explaining
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* If you add RPM to the NTT graphs, you will see that it favors low RPM fans (which I said before). So it doesn't work in practice either.
Click to expand...







Spoiler: 5



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabedamien*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> Thanks for confirming what I had said earlier. +rep
> 
> ...Also, it seems like you know a lot more than me. So I'll let you do the explaining
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* If you add RPM to the NTT graphs, you will see that it favors low RPM fans (which I said before). So it doesn't work in practice either.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I just now read through the entire thread so that I knew what was going on, and I have a couple of comments. I would actually say that you have a stronger knowledge of the physics than I have; my background in mathematics and basic sciences simply gave me enough insight to recognize that this value was not useful, and corroborate your earlier assertions.
> 
> *Cyclops*, please note the following, with my humble thanks for your attention on this matter:
> 
> First and foremost, your testing of all these fans is very welcome and useful and has produced a lot of valuable data. I do not in any way want to minimize your considerable effort, nor its practical yield.
> The main, perhaps the only thing I (and others) object to is the mathematically/physically invalid invention of your NTT rating. It simply isn't a meaningful interpretation of the data. It may look grossly right when you compare an extremely low noise fan to an extremely high noise fan, but for everything in between the distinctions are not necessarily indicative of anything at all.
> My proposal is that you simply eliminate the NTT rating, both from your tables and from the page 1 graphs. Instead, an extremely effective and useful ranking method would be to plot the noise vs ∆T curves for each fan onto a single graph. Obviously this may end up very difficult to read if ALL fans are included, so solutions could include grouping fans by category and making several graphs, or (if someone has the scripting chops for it) creating a dynamic (e.g. javascript) graph with toggled fans. Of course I don't expect you to expend this extra energy; but perhaps you could make your raw data available so a volunteer could produce said graphs. Someone could of course go through and copy all the values manually... but that someone wouldn't be me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> -G
Click to expand...







Spoiler: 6



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm not gonna entertain any more trolls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .






You may also want to read the posts in between.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Hey man, great thread. Great deal of thanks to you for doing this all, and providing it in a pre created list form, where its incredibly simple to see how each fan stacks up relatively to each other fan. Furthermore, the fact that you have provided all the categories that I am interested in proves that _you really know your stuff_. Not only in regards to fans, but in regards to your ability to present the most useful information in an _incredibly succinct_ manner. Noise-temperature comparison is such an INCREDIBLY USEFUL CATEGORY, and the fact that you have burdened yourself with this task, going well above and beyond the minimum anyone could ever reasonably expect of someone doing this pro bono....All of this speaks volumes to your intelligence and character. My hats off to you sir, for providing such useful information that once again my mind is blown: _you have done this for free_.
> Just one thing: do you happen to have a *spreadsheet* created perhaps? I saw in one post you said it was difficult, so if not i completely understand. In fact, if you would like help entering this into a spread sheet, I am more than happy to offer my typist fingers. Feel free to ask me to enter as much data as you have gathered. You did the work gathering it, and I am using it. The least I can do is offer a contribution in the (meager) way I can. Unfair of me to take take take from this useful thread and give nothing back, is it not?
> Also, would you happen to have *higher res graphics*? Higher res bar graphs, higher res screenshots I could look at? The size of those makes it incredibly hard for my horrible eyes to read, glasses or no. If not I'll just keep on squinting, but figured i'd ask!
> Finally, would you mind sharing *what ratio you used for your noise/temperature category*? I'm not really understanding what values you used to arrive at these #s. Definitely useful, I would just like to know where this information is being derived from. Obviously your sound measurements are going into play, but I'm not sure how youre arriving at, for example, the 8.95 you did for the NZXT fans temperature/noise rating on the page preceding this one (pg34)? You have measured noise ~39dba and dTemp at ~52 for pull/push, so i'm curious what you used as a formula for arriving at 8.95. Obviously something I personally am just not seeing at the moment, so any further elaboration would be fantastic!
> Nothing but thanks and gratitude from me to you man. You have done simply amazing work here, all for free. I really hope people recognize and give you the credit you deserve. I once again take my hat off in reverence! You really went above and beyond here to say the least.


Thank you very much for your kind words, they mean alot. They certainly gave me a moral boost to continue my work knowing that some people out there actually appreciate what I do







.

Now, regarding your questions, I don't exactly understand what you mean by a spreadsheet. Are you talking about the charts in post #1? If you can clarify what it is you think that needs to be improved, I'll take a look at it and I'll be more than happy to enlist your help in my project







.

About the pictures, I take them at a resolution of 2592x1944 (Nokia Cellphone Camera), and they are pretty detailed. You can click on an image to make them bigger or save them to your computer and view them the way you like.

Lastly, the noise to temperature rating was something that I came up with before starting the project. It's not a ratio since it's not something like Noise / Temperature, etc. The formula is quite simple and consistent: [Noise + Temperature] / 10. For example, if a fan makes 42.5 DB of noise and has a delta temperature of 45C, the nose to temperature rating would end up like this: [42.5 + 45]/10 = 8.75. I didn't really need to devide it by 10, but I did that just to have smaller numbers.

Thank you again for your feedback







.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Cyclops* 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kmac20*
> 
> Just one thing: do you happen to have a *spreadsheet* created perhaps? I saw in one post you said it was difficult, so if not i completely understand. In fact, if you would like help entering this into a spread sheet, I am more than happy to offer my typist fingers. Feel free to ask me to enter as much data as you have gathered. You did the work gathering it, and I am using it. The least I can do is offer a contribution in the (meager) way I can. Unfair of me to take take take from this useful thread and give nothing back, is it not?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, would you happen to have *higher res graphics*? Higher res bar graphs, higher res screenshots I could look at? The size of those makes it incredibly hard for my horrible eyes to read, glasses or no. If not I'll just keep on squinting, but figured i'd ask!
> 
> 
> 
> Now, regarding your questions, I don't exactly understand what you mean by a spreadsheet. Are you talking about the charts in post #1? If you can clarify what it is you think that needs to be improved, I'll take a look at it and I'll be more than happy to enlist your help in my project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> About the pictures, I take them at a resolution of 2592x1944 (Nokia Cellphone Camera), and they are pretty detailed. You can click on an image to make them bigger or save them to your computer and view them the way you like.
> 
> Lastly, the noise to temperature rating was something that I came up with before starting the project. It's not a ratio since it's not something like Noise / Temperature, etc. The formula is quite simple and consistent: [Noise + Temperature] / 10. For example, if a fan makes 42.5 DB of noise and has a delta temperature of 45C, the nose to temperature rating would end up like this: [42.5 + 45]/10 = 8.75. I didn't really need to devide it by 10, but I did that just to have smaller numbers.
> 
> Thank you again for your feedback
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

I believe kmac20 wanted an excel spreadsheet with all the data collected so far, and offered to enter the data into one if you haven't already.

These are some example of the images being referred to:





kmac20, please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #35 - Spire Air Force 120 SP12025N7L4-B-PWM:





Well, this product has a couple of cool features going for it. First off, this is the first fan I've reviewed that is modular. By that I mean the cable is detachable. Now, you might ask, "Why would you want a detachable fan cable". Well, the included cable has decent braiding. It's not the best but it's adequate. It gives you the option to replace it with something better, maybe a cable with different color/braiding or lengh, to help with aesthetics and cable management respectively.

Secondly, as you can see from the pictures, it comes with 8 sets of rubber grommets to help reduce vibration, and since normal fan screws might not be compatible with these grommets and the mounting holes, the product comes with it's own nuts and bolts. Overall, it looks good when it's lit and inside a case, although the purple/blue LED for this particular skew might not be for everyone.

Last but not least. the cooling efficiency is slightly above average, nothing groundbreaking but it gets the job done. Overall an interesting product. I'd like to see more manufacturers make detachable fan cables, but then again I don't see a good reason for it as long as the sleeving is done properly.

A shout out to folks at Performance-PCs.com for sending me a pair of these fans to review.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Wish someone sent you that Joujye Twin turbo fan...Have you seen any pwm 6000rpm 250cfm 120mm fan with molex AND 4 pin connector for pwm duty control, that stops at 0%? I haven't seen any other.


----------



## Zero4549

Not gonna lie, didn't read through all the pages, but from what I did skim through, I have just one comment: ehume, where are you?









On a more serious note, good job.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #36 - Spire Air Force 120 SP12025N7L3:





I reviewed the older brother of these fans yesterday, so aesthetics are pretty much the same except for a couple of minor details. This particular skew has no LEDs and does not come with PWM technology so the cable is slightly different, althought it uses the same braiding. Other than that, the stats on the back of the box suggests the same top end performance but my experience was a bit different as these fans spun slightly slower than the PWM version. Because of that, the noise to cooling efficiency is improved by a small margin.


----------



## Vlodaf

The NB Eloops have detachable fan cables as well







They even give you two different lengths of fan cables: one 20cm and one 50 cm (or a total of 70cm, which is 28 inch I believe)


----------



## doyll

I just noticed the Silverstone SST FHP 141 are now available.

$16.99 at NCIX
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=77923

$21.00 at Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220056

£14.30 at Scan
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/140mm-silverstone-sst-fhp141-140x140x38mm-fhp-series-black-case-fan

Model No. SST-FHP141;
Color = Black;
Bearing = Dual ball bearing;
Speed Control = PWM
Rated Voltage = 12V DC
Start Voltage = ≦9V DC
Operating Range = 6.5V~13.8V DC
Rated Current = MAX 0.65Amp
Speed = Q:500~1200rpm; P:500~2000rpm
Airflow = 42.8~171 CFM
Static Pressure = 0.23~3.7 mm-H2O
Noise Level = 13.4~43.5 dBA(Max)
Life Time = 150,000 hours
Weight = 220g
Dimension = 140 x 140 x 38mm (overall); 120 x 120 x 38mm (mounting frame)


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #37 - BitFenix Spectre Pro 120:





These are the new lines of Spectre fans from BitFenix. They put alot of time and effort into making this product look as good as it does. The braiding is excellent and the unit looks very good. The fan frame is detachable, although I don't see how anyone would be able to mount them to a chassis or a heatsink without it.

Now here comes the shocker. I was surprised by the fan's inability to move air compared to the amount of noise it generates. I believe that this is due to the blade design which seems to be extremely inefficient. Pretty much every fan that I've tested with similar thermal performance to Spectre Pro 120s, have much lower noise output. The same can be said for fans with similar noise levels having much better thermal performance, as high as 10-15 C in some cases such as Noctua NF-P12s.

Long and short of it is that I would not recommend these fans to performance users.


----------



## mam72

I knew the spectre pro would be pants, the other led fans they had were pants too.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #38 - Cooler Master SickleFlow 2000 RPM:





These are the 2000 RPM version of the Cooler Master Sickleflow fans. They are the smoked glass version and don't have any LEDs, although LED versions are available. It's a good looking fan. The cable doesn't have braiding but it doesn't matter as much since it's coated in white, making it look rather attractive.

The fan has been designed efficiently, since the noise output scaled perfectly with airflow. They are a little bit on the loud side, but I find that to be perfectly acceptable for the cooling performance they offer, .


----------



## Cyclops

I've got some good news. Noctua is sending me a couple of their new 140mm A series fans. I've been waiting for them to come out for quite a while so hopefully they'll perform as well as I hope they would.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've got some good news. Noctua is sending me a couple of their new 140mm A series fans. I've been waiting for them to come out for quite a while so hopefully they'll perform as well as I hope they would.


Go get 'em!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noctua*
> Vienna, November 20th 2012 - Noctua today introduced its new NF-A14 FLX, NF-A14 ULN and NF-A15 PWM 140mm fans that complement the recently announced A-series of premium quality quiet fans. Like the previously presented NF-A4x10, NF-A6x25 and NF-A9x14, the new 140mm models feature Noctua's novel AAO frames as well as the series' signature Flow Acceleration Channels for reduced boundary layer separation and improved aerodynamic efficiency. Reference class SSO2 bearing and 6 years manufacturer's warranty make the NF-A15 and NF-A14 a stand-out choice for all noise-sensitive 140mm applications.
> 
> "Introduced in 2009, our NF-P14 has become a default-choice among PC enthusiasts looking for a premium quality, quiet 140mm fan, so we're excited to further improve its much acclaimed airflow to noise ratio with the new NF-A14 and NF-A15", says Mag. Roland Mossig, Noctua CEO. "The A14 and A15 models all sport the key features of our new A-series fans and now come in both round and square frame design."
> 
> Whereas the NF-A15's round frame features 120mm mounting holes (105mm spacing) and has been enlarged to a width of 150mm in order to provide superior performance on today's high-end CPU coolers, the NF-A14 models' square shape and 140mm mounting holes (124.5mm spacing) make them ideal for use on watercooling radiators or as an upgrade for 140mm case fans.
> 
> Tailor-made for use on CPU coolers, the NF-A15 PWM comes with Noctua's custom designed NE-FD1 PWM IC for fully automatic speed control. The NF-A14 comes in FLX and ULN versions with 1200/1050/900 and 800/650 speed settings for full flexibility in quiet to ultra-quiet case and radiator cooling.
> 
> Like all new A-series fans, the NF-A15 and NF-A14 use a novel aerodynamic design measure called Flow Acceleration Channels that allows them to significantly improve the airflow to noise performance of conventional, uniform blade shapes. By speeding up the airflow at the crucial outer blade regions, Flow Acceleration Channels reduce suction side flow separation and thus lead to better efficiency and lower vortex noise.
> 
> All three fans employ the further optimised second generation of Noctua's renowned, time-tested SSO bearing as well as Noctua's AAO (Advanced Acoustic Optimisation) frames that feature integrated anti-vibration pads as well as Noctua's proprietary Stepped Inlet Design and Inner Surface Microstructures, both of which further refine the fans' performance/noise efficiency. Like all Noctua fans, the NF-A15 and NF-A14 have an MTBF rating of more than 150.000 hours and come with a full 6 years manufacturer's warranty.
> 
> Pricing and availability
> The new fans will be available immediately at recommended retail prices of EUR 21.90 / USD 24.90.
> 
> Links
> Press-Release: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=news_list&news_id=81&lng=en
> Video: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productvideos&products_id=52
> Photos NF-A14 FLX: http://www.noctua.at/inc/imageviewer.php?item=52
> Photos NF-A14 ULN: http://www.noctua.at/inc/imageviewer.php?item=53
> Photos NF-A15 PWM: http://www.noctua.at/inc/imageviewer.php?item=54
> Details NF-A14 FLX: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=52
> Details NF-A14 ULN: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=53
> Details NF-A15 PWM: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=54


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #39 - Thermalright X-Silent 120:





Thermalright is known for their quality products and the X-Silent 120 is no exception. The fan is incredibly quiet, yet it moves a considerable amount of air which results in one of the best noise to temperature ratings I've ever seen. It's not much of a looker but it doesn't carry the pricetag either. They're going for about 6 bucks a pop on Memory Express right now.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

This is pretty awesome, I'm a fan junkie myself!

Can you please test a Gelid Wing 12 and 14 UV series?

Also, for some reason the links in page one don't expand at all while the rest of the pages with the same setup work fine.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> This is pretty awesome, I'm a fan junkie myself!
> Can you please test a Gelid Wing 12 and 14 UV series?
> Also, for some reason the links in page one don't expand at all while the rest of the pages with the same setup work fine.


You have to wait for a bit for every picture to load silently I'm afraid. I wish the website had some sort of feature that would hide them for good untill someone clicked on them to view them directly, instead of loading them all before you can open up a spoiler box.

PS: Gelid already sent me a single Slim 12 UV Blue which I will test in a while but that's about all I can ask of them right now.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You have to wait for a bit for every picture to load silently I'm afraid. I wish the website had some sort of feature that would hide them for good untill someone clicked on them to view them directly, instead of loading them all before you can open up a spoiler box.
> PS: Gelid already sent me a single Slim 12 UV Blue which I will test in a while but that's about all I can ask of them right now.


Can't ask for more! Thank you sir! + REP!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Question answered by looking through the post again! Lol!


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #40 - Cougar CF-T12S:





These are the OEM version of the Cougar Vortex series of fans. The blade design is pretty much the same but it's using simpler and cheaper frame and bearings to save cost. Noise output is actually a little bit lower in pull than push and the temperatures are pretty much identical as well. Noise to temperature rating remains almost identical in all operating modes so if you have a pair of these fans, it might not hurt to run them in P/P.


----------



## Cyclops

All the latest 120mm Results have been updated at post #1. Now with 40 different fans, giving you tons of options to choose from. Enjoy!


----------



## Munk

I have the Zalman F3 and Thermalright X-Silent fans. I cannot believe the LNA makes the F3 as silent as the X-Silent but 4-5 degrees cooler (the cooler part yes, the noise part, no). Testing must be done! (by me).


----------



## Cyclops

Well, these are the fans I have in my possession right now which I will be testing in the coming days:

Gelid Solutions Slim 12 UA Blue FN-FW12SLIMB-15
BitFenix Spectre 120
Silenx Effizio EFX-12-12
Apevia CF12S
Apevia CF12SL-UBL
Kingwin CF-012LB
IPCQueen IPC-12025
Logisys CF120DCA
Logisys CF120GN
MassCool BLD-12025V1R
Xion AXP Alphawing AXP-GF120_BL
Xion AXP Alphawing AXP-GF140_WT

Are you guys excited about any of them? I can move some of them ahead of the testing que.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Logisys perhaps...they should be cheap.


----------



## shilka

I have a question i have a Noctua NH-U12P SE2 heatsink with the fans that came with it.
I want to replace them with 2x Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120mm fans the Noctua fans have higher static pressure then the Bitfenix fans but the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans looks so much better and i already use Spectre Pro fans i my case.
The question is how much will my temps go up if i replace them or will they even go up?
I use a Core I7 3820 CPU with the Noctua NH-U12P SE2
Thanks


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> These are the OEM version of the Cougar Vortex series of fans.


Althrough these fans are used in Cougar cases they aren't OEMs and can be bought separately: they're called Cougar Turbine (note the T in model name).


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shilka*
> 
> I have a question i have a Noctua NH-U12P SE2 heatsink with the fans that came with it.
> I want to replace them with 2x Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120mm fans the Noctua fans have higher static pressure then the Bitfenix fans but the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans looks so much better and i already use Spectre Pro fans i my case.
> The question is how much will my temps go up if i replace them or will they even go up?
> I use a Core I7 3820 CPU with the Noctua NH-U12P SE2
> Thanks


Well I did review the Spectre pro fans a while ago and it was a disaster. Your temps will certainly go up and I'd recommend replacing your case fans as Spectre pro's have serious issues with airflow, i.e they barely moves any air.


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well I did review the Spectre pro fans a while ago and it was a disaster. Your temps will certainly go up and I'd recommend replacing your case fans as Spectre pro's have serious issues with airflow, i.e they barely moves any air.


I dont have any problems with my Spectre pro's mine moves a lot of air but i have mine hooked up to a Bitfenix Hydra Pro fan controller not the motherboard


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Logisys perhaps...they should be cheap.


Their UF120 is a great fan, so the CF120 may or may not be decent. Also keep in mind that they have some pretty good heatsinks, like the Ice Wind Pro. I'm intrigued by them.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shilka*
> 
> I dont have any problems with my Spectre pro's mine moves a lot of air but i have mine hooked up to a Bitfenix Hydra Pro fan controller not the motherboard


Doesn't matter what you have them hooked up to, look at the numbers in my test, they speak loads about the airflow.


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Doesn't matter what you have them hooked up to, look at the numbers in my test, they speak loads about the airflow.


Stange i dont have very high temp even under very high load so the fans most move some air


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shilka*
> 
> Stange i dont have very high temp even under very high load so the fans most move some air


They do move air of course! No one said the contrary, but they are not terribly efficient in the cfm nor noise department, and the specs are wrong.
Different kind of bearing than specified and fake ratings aswell.
Quite overpriced for they offer...


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> They do move air of course! No one said the contrary, but they are not terribly efficient in the cfm nor noise department, and the specs are wrong.
> Different kind of bearing than specified and fake ratings aswell.
> Quite overpriced for they offer...


Are the Cooler Master stock fans better then i still have the some Cooler Master fans somewhere 3x200mm and 1x230mm red LED


----------



## ivanlabrie

Doubt that very much...but you can always sell them and get some proven performers.
This thread has some really useful results in the first post.
Check the graphs and out and decide for yourself.


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Doubt that very much...but you can always sell them and get some proven performers.
> This thread has some really useful results in the first post.
> Check the graphs and out and decide for yourself.


Are there any 200mm and 230mm fan tests?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Not here...120 and 140mm ones.
There aren't really good 180, 200 and 230mm fans that I know of. Perhaps Silverstone?
But those are noisy, same as NZXT (but theirs move a lot of air at least)
I'd stick to good 140mm for case fans and good 120mm for rads/heatsinks.


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Not here...120 and 140mm ones.
> There aren't really good 180, 200 and 230mm fans that I know of. Perhaps Silverstone?
> But those are noisy, same as NZXT (but theirs move a lot of air at least)
> I'd stick to good 140mm for case fans and good 120mm for rads/heatsinks.


My case the HAF X use a 230mm fan for the front 2x 200mm fans for the top and a 200mm fan for the side and last a 120/140mm fan for the rear
I bought Bitfenix Spectre Pro´s in those sizes i dont know much about fans i bought them because they looked good on paper and i dont know any other 200mm/230mm fans other then stock the Cooler Master fans


----------



## ivanlabrie

Yeah, they probably are ok if hooked to a controller and silent enough for your needs...No need to replace them, unless you can resell them when you get tired of them or want a new look or 'sound'.


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Yeah, they probably are ok if hooked to a controller and silent enough for your needs...No need to replace them, unless you can resell them when you get tired of them or want a new look or 'sound'.


I have them hooked up to a fan controller on low they are dead silent and i can feel that they move some air not much but they do move a little
On max they do make some nosie buts its not super loud and i can feel the hot air comming out so they do the job
I like how they look and my temps are not very high even after some very heavy load


----------



## ivanlabrie

Then it's good...till you feel that upgrade bug again, right?


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Then it's good...till you feel that upgrade bug again, right?


Upgrade to what?
As far as i know there are no other 200mm and 230mm fans out there that are better


----------



## ivanlabrie

I bet you can fit different size fans there as well, like a couple of 140mm or 120mm fans...Not sure cause I have a CM 690 II advanced, but my case does have a variety of mounting holes for fans of different calibers.


----------



## Nitrogannex

Hey can you maybe test some Akasa Fans? more spicficly the 140mm Apache and 120mm Pirannah


----------



## NomNomNom

So thats why i get mediocre temps on my 360 rad.... been using the spectre pro 120's the whole time.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> So thats why i get mediocre temps on my 360 rad.... been using the spectre pro 120's the whole time.


Repent, repent!!!


----------



## NomNomNom

No worries, going to be switching to two 200mm NZXT fans soon through three 360mm rads


----------



## shilka

Cant Noctua or some of the other good fan maker companys make some great 200mm and 230mm fans instead of the crap fans that are out there


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shilka*
> 
> Cant Noctua or some of the other good fan maker companys make some great 200mm and 230mm fans instead of the crap fans that are out there


Silverstone makes some pretty good 180mm penetrator fans, though the draw back is it's in a weird size and the holes don't match up to 200mm ones, so you'r going to have to mod mounting holes to your case.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #41 - Gelid Solutions Slim 12 UA Blue FN-FW12SLIMB-15:





Gelid Solutions was kind enough to send me this fan, as well as their GX-7 Rev. 2 CPU cooler, GC-Supreme and GC-Extreme Thermal compounds. Today, We'll be focusing on the fan.

The thickness of this fan is only 15 millimeters, so it's going to be the first slim 120mm unit that I've tested.

Shaving a whole centimeter off of the width of a fan might not be seen as such a smart move by performance users, but in places where space is limited, you'll start to see just how useful a slim fan can be. How many of you have tried to fit something like an H100 to your chassis and couldn't because of clearance issues? Well, a fan with a slim form factor might just save your bacon.

Now, let's talk about aesthetics and performance. It's quite a handsome little fellow. All the cables are black and braided and It just looks like a quality product.

Sadly, I could only manage to get my hands on one of these fans as Gelid didn't have more in stock. That being said, push and pull tests did provide quite a lot of useful data. Considering it's slim form factor, I was surprised to see this fan perform as well as it did. Theoratically, you should be losing about 40% of the airflow compared to a normal fan since it's 40% thinner, but that wasn't the case as you can see from the results.

Performance in pull took quite a hit, but in push it performed just as well as any other fan with similar noise levels, if not better. As an added bonus, you also receive an LNA (Low noise adaptor) which further improved the cooling efficiency.

Overall, I'm quite happy with the performance of this product, particularly in push mode.

As always, more pictures are available at post #2.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #42 - BitFenix Spectre 120:





After reviewing the awful Spectre Pro 120s, I was surprised to see that what they replaced is rather excellent. To start with, the older Spectres are much quieter than the pro version and they actually move more air which results in better cooling. The cable is black and overall I think it's a pretty good looking fan, specially in white. I just don't see why BitFenix would replace them with the Pro sku which is far worse than their predecessor. I mean, what were they thinking?

At any rate, these fans are exceptionally quiet and move enough air for their noise to temperature rating to be high up on my charts.


----------



## shilka

Would you say that i sould replace my Spectre Pro 140mm with the older Spectre 140mm?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shilka*
> 
> Would you say that i sould replace my Spectre Pro 140mm with the older Spectre 140mm?


I don't see why anyone wouldn't considerig how much better the older Spectres are.


----------



## shilka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I don't see why anyone shouldn't considerig how much better the older Spectres are.


Thanks maybe i will just thow the pro out the window i was suckered in to buy the pro and the 120mm and 140mm version of the pro is crap


----------



## ivanlabrie

Glad to see you're still around Cyclops!
And quite a surprise I might add...


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Glad to see you're still around Cyclops!
> And quite a surprise I might add...


Thanks. You know how it is, busy busy. More reveiws are coming.


----------



## NomNomNom

It seems like my spectres are only rated to 900rpms though, the pros on my rad push much more than the non pros.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #43 - Silenx Effizio EFX-12-12:





Here we have a budget friendly fan from Silenx. At the back of the box you can see that they are claiming to have the best noise to airflow ratio of any fan in the world. That wasn't quite the case in my tests but the noise to temperature rating was good enough all around for this product to get a recommendation from me. That is if you're tight on dough.

The fan looks quite simple but since the wires are all black and the impeller is yellow, it looks more expensive than its 6.99 price tag.

The RPM is consistent in pretty much all operating modes and that translates into superior acoustics. They also have a 140mm version which is a mere dolar more. I suspect it would perform as well as its 120mm brother but I can't confirm that till I get a sample or two.

The only real gripe I have with this fan is the power connector. The 3-pin header is perfectly adequate for the job and I see no reason why you would want to have a molex extension flopping around at the end of the cable. They could have included an extra adaptor and make cable management easier, but it would have added cost so I sort of understand. Still, it would have been better if they didn't attach it in the first place.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #44 - Apevia CF12S:





Today we have a product from Apevia, the CF12S. According to Newegg, the fan speed is ~1700 RPM . That number was way off of what I was seeing in my tests which was around 1150 RPM, so I guess they need to update the specs.

Besides that, for a 6 dolar fan, the airflow efficiency is superb, specially in push or pull configurations. That's not to say it was bad in push/pull, but it just wasn't as stellar as the other two operating modes. It pretty much placed itself very near the top end of the noise to temperature rating tables. Again, I was really surprised to see that such a cheap little fan could outperform almost every single high price / high quality product in terms of efficiency.

And now the bad news. Remember I mentioned it was cheap? That's because it is. No black wires and no cable sleeving means that it's very plain looking. Form does follow function in this case but you just wish they would at least cover the horribly ugly cable with something or better yet, just use black/white cables. At any rate, you get what you pay for here and since it is a solid performer, it gets my recommendation.


----------



## naikee

Nice but no static pressure readings?


----------



## Cyclops

I was wondering if I should do a kickstarter in order to get more fans to review for you guys, well not exactly kickstarer but something like paypal donation. I hate begging for anything, specially money, but if that'll get the reviews going then I might end up doing it. However, I'm not sure if that sort of thing is in compliance with the website's policies and terms of service.


----------



## nubbinator

You could probably set up an Amazon wishlist and post it in the thread. Just add the fans you want to review to it. That'd probably be the better way to do it. You'd still have to check though.


----------



## Cyclops

An Amazon wishlist? I think one person would have to end up paying for the whole order that way. People can't chip in.


----------



## nubbinator

No, you can buy items individually on the list, you don't have to buy the whole list. People could buy one fan or several for you.


----------



## Cyclops

That wouldn't be very economical. I usually buy at least 5 or so pair of fans to save on shipping costs.


----------



## nubbinator

It may not be the most economical, but you're not paying for anything with the Amazon wishlist. All it does is allow people to buy as many fans on the wish list as they want to help your testing, be it one fan or a half dozen fans.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #45 - Logisys CF120GN:





This is what you would expect from a high performance fan, loudness and lots of airflow. I admit this isn't really suitable for people that are intolerant to noise, but if you don't care about that, then this is the fan for you. This particular version comes with green LEDs which I think looks fantastic.

I haven't used them with a fan controller to see how well they undervolt but I can tell you that they move a heck of a lot of air. More so even than the Corsair SP120 High Performance Edition fans which incidentally spin alot faster.

The only real bad thing about this product is the power connector which is a 3-Pin/Molex hybrid and is just awful. I assume they sleeved the cables in nylon to make the product look more attractive and then shot themselves in the foot with that horrid molex abomination


----------



## ivanlabrie

Looks like a transparent slipstream...How's the price on these?
I'm trying to decide what to do with my two nidec beta- v's, I might need some input.
These move too much air and I think one in the middle position of my SA is overkill already xD
Any thoughts? I already have 4 ty-140s serving as case fans and a front to back airflow with top front intake too.


----------



## Cyclops

Well, Newegg.ca got a special on them right now for only 5 bucks. I don't know much about the fans you said you have so I'm afraid I can't give you any insight as in whether or not they're good or bad. Although the TY-140s are battle proven and I'm almost certain they'd end up on top of my charts once I get my hands on them.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Nidec builds the GT ap-15 for example. Brilliant build quality and efficiency .
Even these beast fans are unbelievably quiet for the amount of air they move.


----------



## Munk

Thermalright's TY-140's are excellent SKUs. Great CFM, very low dB, 140mm size but mounts with 120mm holes. It's also pretty straightforward to take apart and paint (guide -> http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=224968). They are also very well priced (at least where I come from







).


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Although the TY-140s are battle proven and I'm almost certain they'd end up on top of my charts once I get my hands on them.










TY-140 series are what most of mine are.. and have been for a year now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munk*
> 
> Thermalright's TY-140's are excellent SKUs. Great CFM, very low dB, 140mm size but mounts with 120mm holes. It's also pretty straightforward to take apart and paint (guide -> http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=224968). They are also very well priced (at least where I come from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


I tried twice to disassemble TY-140 and have not succeeded... and that guide is what I was following.


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TY-140 series are what most of mine are.. and have been for a year now.
> I tried twice to disassemble TY-140 and have not succeeded... and that guide is what I was following.


Real sorry to hear it did not work out for you. I would ask for your story/some pictures of the attempt but that would be thread hijacking







.
Regardless of the colour, the TY-140's are one of the best 140mm fans around.


----------



## doyll

I couldn't get the cover/cap/plug off of the back of the motor.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #46 - Xion AXP Alphawing AXP-GF120_BL:





Here's another plain, cheap, and functional fan. Performs pretty decently under the noise to temperature category and have one of those stupid 3-pin/Molex hybrid connectors. Not much else for me to mention here.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I'd appreciate molex and 4 pin to read pwm from the mobo, but only on really fast fans like the Nidecs I got...That's just stupid, or assuming people still have boards with one fan header?


----------



## chad4050

Amazing research this has been a great read. I bet you have a ton of fans I say build a hover craft. Thanks for the Epic data.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #47 - IPCQueen IPC-12025:





Coming at you with yet another cheap fan. This one's from IPCQueen and I bought it from Newegg. It moves quite alot of air for the amount of noise it generates as you can see from the noise to temperature ratings. An unremarkable product really, but it is functional.

Newegg says that the nominal fan speed is 2000 RPM. I found that number to be way off of what I was seeing which was around ~1500 RPM.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #48 - Logisys CF120DCA:





I had difficulties finding the make and model of this fan as it is sold under the "Deep Cool" brand. Turned out that Logisys is the actual maker of this product.

It's a very simple fan. They didn't bother much with stickers and shiny stuff. It doesn't even have a signal cable so I couldn't find out the RPM.

It's cheap and it works. Moves a decent amount of air for its noise output, although that's only true when you use it in push.


----------



## nleksan

I really wish I could afford to send you a pair each of 140mm Bgears Blasters, 120x25mm Koolance 2600rpm Fans, 120x38mm Koolance 2600rpm Fans, 140mm Bitfenix Spectre Pro PWM Fans, and 140x38mm Silverstone FHP-141 fans.....







If I had the extra cash, they'd be on their way, but unfortunately I am a poor college student, very poor (Psychopharmacology books are $$$$$$$).

However, I would be willing to "lend" a few fans, and pay for shipping both-ways, if I was able to get them returned once completed?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I really wish I could afford to send you a pair each of 140mm Bgears Blasters, 120x25mm Koolance 2600rpm Fans, 120x38mm Koolance 2600rpm Fans, 140mm Bitfenix Spectre Pro PWM Fans, and 140x38mm Silverstone FHP-141 fans.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I had the extra cash, they'd be on their way, but unfortunately I am a poor college student, very poor (Psychopharmacology books are $$$$$$$).
> However, I would be willing to "lend" a few fans, and pay for shipping both-ways, if I was able to get them returned once completed?


Thank you, that's very kind of you. Maybe I can buy them from you in a little while, cause I like to keep the fans for future testing. I may or may not build another testing rig for testing all these fans on a radiator.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Looking forward for that!


----------



## Cyclops

120mm fan #49 - Kingwin CF-012LB:





This is one of the quietest fan I've tested in a while and although it's nearly silent, the performance just isn't good enough. It wouldn't have hurt if they sacrificed a little bit of noise for a little bit more airflow. The fan looks very cheap. The bare cable and the 3-pin/molex hybrid connector doesn't help its case at all either. Cyclops is unimpressed.









Happy new year folks, bringing the tech reviews on new year's eve.


----------



## nawon72

You should consider using Tom's Hardware's method of comparing coolers for your fans.



Spoiler: Example from Tom's



In order to compare cooling to noise, we first take mathematical averages of the CPU temperature delta for all coolers and the noise level for all coolers. Changing to a percentage scale, we reflect higher thermal performance for lower temperatures (an inverse scale) by dividing the group average by each cooler's actual temperature.

Larger denominators produce smaller percentages (one-eighth is half as much as one-fourth), so we put noise on a direct scale by dividing each cooler's installed noise by the group's average. Dividing the first calculation by the second produces an easy-to-read cooling-to-noise chart.










Nothing is more than 100% efficient, so we change the 100% baseline to 0% by subtracting 100% from each calculation. We see, for example, that Noctua's NH-D14 is 22% more efficient than the average for today's cooling contenders, while Cooler Master's Seidon 240M is 7% less efficient than the group average.

*SOURCE*



The equation used is:

((Group AVG ΔT/Cooler AVG ΔT)/(Cooler AVG dB/Group AVG dB))-1

This will give you a relative comparison of the fans on a Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.C Black Edition and Xigmatek Prime SD1484.

Attached is an excel spreadsheet with a graph so you can see another example.

Acoustic Efficiency Example.xlsx 12k .xlsx file


I know there are a few people watching this thread who are willing to help out. So if you need any help with the formulas or graphs, please contact me by PM or ask in this thread.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> ((Group AVG ΔT/Cooler AVG ΔT)/(Cooler AVG dB/Group AVG dB))-1


Well you have access to all the data you need on post #1. Make a graph for one of the configurations and post it here and I'll see what I can do with it.


----------



## ChironXII

So, based on all of this data, what would be the best fan for a push/pull on a Hyper 212 EVO?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChironXII*
> 
> So, based on all of this data, what would be the best fan for a push/pull on a Hyper 212 EVO?


That entirely depends on what you consider "loud".


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nawon72*
> 
> You should consider using Tom's Hardware's method of comparing coolers for your fans.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Example from Tom's
> 
> 
> 
> In order to compare cooling to noise, we first take mathematical averages of the CPU temperature delta for all coolers and the noise level for all coolers. Changing to a percentage scale, we reflect higher thermal performance for lower temperatures (an inverse scale) by dividing the group average by each cooler's actual temperature.
> Larger denominators produce smaller percentages (one-eighth is half as much as one-fourth), so we put noise on a direct scale by dividing each cooler's installed noise by the group's average. Dividing the first calculation by the second produces an easy-to-read cooling-to-noise chart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing is more than 100% efficient, so we change the 100% baseline to 0% by subtracting 100% from each calculation. We see, for example, that Noctua's NH-D14 is 22% more efficient than the average for today's cooling contenders, while Cooler Master's Seidon 240M is 7% less efficient than the group average.
> 
> *SOURCE*
> 
> 
> The equation used is:
> ((Group AVG ΔT/Cooler AVG ΔT)/(Cooler AVG dB/Group AVG dB))-1
> This will give you a relative comparison of the fans on a Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.C Black Edition and Xigmatek Prime SD1484.
> 
> Attached is an excel spreadsheet with a graph so you can see another example.
> 
> Acoustic Efficiency Example.xlsx 12k .xlsx file
> 
> 
> I know there are a few people watching this thread who are willing to help out. So if you need any help with the formulas or graphs, please contact me by PM or ask in this thread.


WRONG.

You can't substract dB, they are in a logarithmic scale. You must first convert to power or amplitude, substract, and then back to dB. See this.

Edit: I've changed your example so that it now converts to power scale. Compare sheets 1(yours) and 2(mine). The graphs are really different.

fixed_acoustic_efficiency.xls 45k .xls file


----------



## Cyclops

Well this could be interesting if a proven method was presented.

BTW cloppy, your graph looks exactly the same as the one you are trying to correct.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well this could be interesting if a proven method was presented.
> BTW cloppy, your graph looks exactly the same as the one you are trying to correct.


Look at "Sheet1 (2)"









I'll go through cloppy's post and reply tonight.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> WRONG.
> You can't substract dB, they are in a logarithmic scale. You must first convert to power or amplitude, substract, and then back to dB. See this.
> Edit: I've changed your example so that it now converts to power scale. Compare sheets 1(yours) and 2(mine). The graphs are really different.
> 
> fixed_acoustic_efficiency.xls 45k .xls file


You're also wrong. Of course you can subtract and dB. You can multiply and divide them. Try this, convert the dB values to absolute values, subtract them and then concert to dB again, you will see that you will get the same result with just subtracting the dB valuea in the first place.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> WRONG.
> You can't substract dB, they are in a logarithmic scale. You must first convert to power or amplitude, substract, and then back to dB. See this.
> Edit: I've changed your example so that it now converts to power scale. Compare sheets 1(yours) and 2(mine). The graphs are really different.
> 
> fixed_acoustic_efficiency.xls 45k .xls file


You're also wrong. Of course you can subtract and dB. You can't multiply and divide them. Try this, convert the dB values to absolute values, divide them and then convert to dB again, you will see that you will get the same result with just subtracting the dB valuea in the first place.

Subtracting dB values = dividing raw absolute values
Adding dB values = multiplying raw absolute values


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> You're also wrong. Of course you can subtract and dB. You can't multiply and divide them. Try this, convert the dB values to absolute values, divide them and then convert to dB again, you will see that you will get the same result with just subtracting the dB valuea in the first place.
> Subtracting dB values = dividing raw absolute values
> Adding dB values = multiplying raw absolute values


That's true, mul/div in log scale corresponds to add/sub in power scale. I wanted to point out that the average was not being properly calculated in the spreadsheet (not that it would result in NaN or something like that...). And THG might be doing it wrong too.

Edit: didn't you have a cat in your avatar, and 2 San Aces in your SA?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> That's true, mul/div in log scale corresponds to add/sub in power scale. I wanted to point out that the average was not being properly calculated in the spreadsheet (not that it would result in NaN or something like that...). And THG might be doing it wrong too.
> Edit: didn't you have a cat in your avatar, and 2 San Aces in your SA?


Point taken.

Nope. Why?


----------



## Cyclops

Guess what came in the mail today......



Noctua was super cool to send me their entire line up of the brand new 140mm A series fans.

Expect reviews to come out shortly.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Wow, very good nice!
looking forward for that


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #50 - MassCool BLD-12025V1R:





By looking at this fan for the first time, I thought it would have red LEDs, but looks can be deceiving. This particular Sku doesn't have any LEDs and I'm not sure if the rest of the line up have any either.

The performance on push is great, but as soon as you slap another one on the heatsink for push/pull, all hell breaks loose as the noise levels goes to eleven. Not terribly loud, but for a marginal performance improvement, it's just not worth it.

It looks okay, braiding is adequate at best and the satanic 3-pin/molex hybrid connector makes another cameo appearance. Still, it is recommended if you're on a budget.


----------



## NomNomNom

Cyclops, what fans around 1500rpm would you recommend that has high static pressure while remaining quiet? I need four of them for a 80mm thick rad.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> Cyclops, what fans around 1500rpm would you recommend that has high static pressure while remaining quiet? I need four of them for a 80mm thick rad.


To be honest, RPM have got nothing to do with noise most of the time. Some fans barely make any noise at 1500 RPM while others would deafen you. It all depends on how much air they move as generaly speaking, the more air a fan can move, the louder it will be.

I'm not sure what you'd consider loud but 38 DB is where I kind of draw the line. I have to note that I test these fans on an open bench so the generated noise is far more noticable than if they were running inside a chassis.

Sticking to the 38 DB sweetspot, I'd say go for the NF-P12s if you have the money, if not, then Cougar CF-V12HBs would be my next choice IF you were to position the rad vertically in your chassis as they are known to make weird noises when you run them horizontally. Nothing I've tested can touch the P12s. They are in a class of their own even though the color scheme is still questionable.


----------



## NomNomNom

I might just go with the turbine version of the vortex then, some other thread of fan testing says theyre identical in specs. Except the turbine has a rifle bearing which just wears out faster


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> To be honest, RPM have got nothing to do with noise most of the time. Some fans barely make any noise at 1500 RPM while others would deafen you. It all depends on how much air they move as generaly speaking, the more air a fan can move, the louder it will be.
> I'm not sure what you'd consider loud but 38 DB is where I kind of draw the line. I have to note that I test these fans on an open bench so the generated noise is far more noticable than if they were running inside a chassis.
> Sticking to the 38 DB sweetspot, I'd say go for the NF-P12s if you have the money, if not, then Cougar CF-V12HBs would be my next choice IF you were to position the rad vertically in your chassis as they are known to make weird noises when you run them horizontally. Nothing I've tested can touch the P12s. They are in a class of their own even though the color scheme is still questionable.


I thought the AP-32 is better than the P12 for PWM radiator fans?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> To be honest, RPM have got nothing to do with noise most of the time. Some fans barely make any noise at 1500 RPM while others would deafen you. It all depends on how much air they move as generaly speaking, the more air a fan can move, the louder it will be.
> I'm not sure what you'd consider loud but 38 DB is where I kind of draw the line. I have to note that I test these fans on an open bench so the generated noise is far more noticable than if they were running inside a chassis.
> Sticking to the 38 DB sweetspot, I'd say go for the NF-P12s if you have the money, if not, then Cougar CF-V12HBs would be my next choice IF you were to position the rad vertically in your chassis as they are known to make weird noises when you run them horizontally. Nothing I've tested can touch the P12s. They are in a class of their own even though the color scheme is still questionable.


I thought the AP-32 is better than the P12 for PWM radiator fans?


----------



## Cyclops

Never heard of AP-32.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Never heard of AP-32.


Never heard of Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-32, the high speed version of the infamous AP-15?


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Never heard of Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-32, the high speed version of the infamous AP-15?


Advice was asked based on what Cyclops has reviewed, not one every fan that exists.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Ap29 and ap31 ring a bell...what's ap32?
3000rpm and 5400rpm respectively.
I think most 80mm rads have low fpi, in the order of 8 or 9, so you shouldn't have trouble with even swiftech helix fans for 6usd.


----------



## NomNomNom

Yeah the rad im using is 10 fpi and 80mm thick but greatly benefits from higher cfm and static pressure but i'm trying to build a silent computer


----------



## ivanlabrie

Martinm (can't recall his exact nick) favors the modded for pwm ap29 for this exact scenario.
Can be as quuiet as an ap15 at same rpm but can also revv up if needed.

Edit: thatt guy at xs, he owns the site mmartin's liquid cooling lab


----------



## PatrickCrowely

Great review..... Have me rethinking my Fan selection. learned things I didn't know, thanks!


----------



## NomNomNom

Only problem with ap-29's is that its 25 dollars or more per fan here in canada, i need a low cost effective solution like the cougar turbines. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Martinm (can't recall his exact nick) favors the modded for pwm ap29 for this exact scenario.
> Can be as quuiet as an ap15 at same rpm but can also revv up if needed.
> Edit: thatt guy at xs, he owns the site mmartin's liquid cooling lab


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> Only problem with ap-29's is that its 25 dollars or more per fan here in canada, i need a low cost effective solution like the cougar turbines. Thanks for the suggestion though.


Ebay is your friend, or sidewindercomputers.com, performance-pcs.com, frozencpu...cheaper than Canada pricing.


----------



## NomNomNom

Yeah found some for 16 dollars each, not sure fi they're worth it at that price though


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #51 - Apevia CF12SL-UBL:





Simple is best. This fan just works the way it's suppose to. Granted, it's not much of a looker, but for the price, you can't really ask any more of it. By being quiet and efficient, it gets a respectable position on the noise to temperature rating table.

Recommended for cheap, budget oriented systems where silence is a priority.


----------



## zerocraft

What would you recommend for case fan use in a restrictive case? I have the silent Bitfenix ghost case and the spectre fans it comes with for the front intake barely move any air, seems to agree with your benches. The front intake has the usually blocking from HDD bays, and on the front a filter + closed front door (theres a few grills on the side when the door is closed) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345019. Im looking in the $10-15 range.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Ap29 and ap31 ring a bell...what's ap32?
> 3000rpm and 5400rpm respectively.
> I think most 80mm rads have low fpi, in the order of 8 or 9, so you shouldn't have trouble with even swiftech helix fans for 6usd.


Stupid me, I was referring to the AP-29. My rad is 120mm though, so is the AP-29 the best?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Martinm (can't recall his exact nick) favors the modded for pwm ap29 for this exact scenario.
> Can be as quuiet as an ap15 at same rpm but can also revv up if needed.
> Edit: thatt guy at xs, he owns the site mmartin's liquid cooling lab


Yes, exactly what I want to relay here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Ebay is your friend, or sidewindercomputers.com, performance-pcs.com, frozencpu...cheaper than Canada pricing.


Just bough an AP-29 from PPCS. I was the one who asked them to modify the AP-29 to become PWM and they did. They sell the high-speed fans converted to PWM at around $25, I think.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Stupid me, I was referring to the AP-29. My rad is 120mm though, so is the AP-29 the best?
> Yes, exactly what I want to relay here.
> Just bough an AP-29 from PPCS. I was the one who asked them to modify the AP-29 to become PWM and they did. They sell the high-speed fans converted to PWM at around $25, I think.


Pretty cool!









I got two 220cfm Nidec Beta-v's that already are pwm, but I need to split the power cables to feed from molex and plug pwm control cables to the cpu header.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zerocraft*
> 
> What would you recommend for case fan use in a restrictive case? I have the silent Bitfenix ghost case and the spectre fans it comes with for the front intake barely move any air, seems to agree with your benches. The front intake has the usually blocking from HDD bays, and on the front a filter + closed front door (theres a few grills on the side when the door is closed) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345019. Im looking in the $10-15 range.


Anything would move more air than Spectre or Spectre Pros, really. I'd say get some the Zalman ZM-F3 ZF1225ASH and put the LNA on. They're a little bit louder but move tons more air than the Spectres and Spectre Pros


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Anything would move more air than Spectre or Spectre Pros, really. I'd say get some the Zalman ZM-F3 ZF1225ASH and put the LNA on. They're a little bit louder but move tons more air than the Spectres and Spectre Pros


I can vouch for the Zalman ZM-F3. After reading this thread I sat an F3 down next to a thermalright Ty-140, thermalright X-silent 120 and 140 and a Nexus DS12L-12 Real Silent fan. The Zalman with a low noise adapter is almost as quiet as the Nexus while pushing slightly more air than it and both the X-silent fans.


----------



## zerocraft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Anything would move more air than Spectre or Spectre Pros, really. I'd say get some the Zalman ZM-F3 ZF1225ASH and put the LNA on. They're a little bit louder but move tons more air than the Spectres and Spectre Pros


I have a fan controller so noise adapters not needed right? Though my friend wants to sell me his noctua nfp12 fans from his old heatsink, those look pretty awesome on your ratio chart so I might opt for that. I am also looking to replace my old corsair H100 stock fans with something better, any recommendations on radiator fans, would the zalman work well there too ?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zerocraft*
> 
> I have a fan controller so noise adapters not needed right? Though my friend wants to sell me his noctua nfp12 fans from his old heatsink, those look pretty awesome on your ratio chart so I might opt for that. I am also looking to replace my old corsair H100 stock fans with something better, any recommendations on radiator fans, would the zalman work well there too ?


Yeah, you wouldn't need the LNA if you have the fan controller but it's easier just to put the LNA on, hook it up to the PSU/Mainboard and forget about it. P12s are an excellent choice. Zalman fans would probably work just as well on rads if not better.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Stupid me, I was referring to the AP-29. My rad is 120mm though, so is the AP-29 the best?
> Yes, exactly what I want to relay here.
> Just bough an AP-29 from PPCS. I was the one who asked them to modify the AP-29 to become PWM and they did. They sell the high-speed fans converted to PWM at around $25, I think.


Cyclops, any comment on the AP-29's?


----------



## Cyclops

I haven't had any AP-29s to test so I can't possibly speculate on them.


----------



## Cyclops

All the latest results (120mm fans) have been updated (Post #1). The list keeps getting bigger and bigger.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

@Cyclops,

I was wondering if it was possible to link the fans to where the page / post is, in this way readers can read your review / thoughts on each fan since the 1st page only includes the data from the test.

Cheers!


----------



## Nitrogannex

Cyclops, Would you be willing to test a Dew AKASA fans? More specifically the 120mm Pirannah and the 140mm Apache


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nitrogannex*
> 
> Cyclops, Would you be willing to test a Dew AKASA fans? More specifically the 120mm Pirannah and the 140mm Apache


Will isn't the issue here. Funds and availability are.


----------



## Nitrogannex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Will isn't the issue here. Funds and availability are.


Ok, maybe in a few weeks when I get paid from my job I'll send a few your way


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nitrogannex*
> 
> Ok, maybe in a few weeks when I get paid from my job I'll send a few your way


That's very generous of you. Thank you.


----------



## Bloodbath

What is the best liquid cooling fan that comes in black?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bloodbath*
> 
> What is the best liquid cooling fan that comes in black?


Delta PFB1212UHE-F00


----------



## kevindd992002

Is this for the rad?


----------



## Bloodbath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Is this for the rad?


yes for the rad.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Delta PFB1212UHE-F00


This Delta is insanely loud right?


----------



## Captain Mayhem

I'll be sending you a fan to test aswell, Cyclops. I just need to know where to send it.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> This Delta is insanely loud right?


Oh yes, quite.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> I'll be sending you a fan to test aswell, Cyclops. I just need to know where to send it.


Appreciate it, but I have to tell you that I need at least a pair to test a product properly.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> This Delta is insanely loud right?


Only when you use the rpm they are capable of. You can keep them at lower rpm except when you need the high airflow for cooling high CPU load.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I like the extra pressure 38mm thick fans provide...


----------



## Cyclops

Guys guys guys, the Delta suggestion was a joke. He asked what was the best fan for radiators without specifying anything else like noise or size so I just threw the Delta in there.


----------



## PR-Imagery

Joke or not Deltas are great fans when used with a fan controller.

One of my TFC1212s move more air at ~47% at a higher pressure and less noise than all the rest of my fans.


----------



## drserk

is there any better option instead of noctua specially performance about noise to temperature? i am looking better options also low noise at high cfm/cmH2O


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drserk*
> 
> is there any better option instead of noctua specially performance about noise to temperature? i am looking better options also low noise at high cfm/cmH2O


You can take a look at the noise to temperature rating table and see which fan is comparable to the Noctuas. That's the easiest way of figuring out which fan is best for your needs.


----------



## drserk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You can take a look at the noise to temperature rating table and see which fan is comparable to the Noctuas. That's the easiest way of figuring out which fan is best for your needs.


those lists are very good. i thought if there were any fans which werent in the lists,you couldnt have opportunity to test. but i think all fans are in. thank you


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #14 - Noctua NF-A15 PWM:





It's been a long time coming but here is what everyone has been waiting for. Noctua's brand new A series fans. I'll be reviewing all three 140mm models over the next few days. Today though, I'm going over The NF-A15 PWM.

I could talk about stepped inlets, dimpled inner frame, brand new blade design with flow acceleration channels, SSO2 bearing, etc all day long, but that's not really my style. What matters to me is raw performance and this fan delivers in spades.

In short, The NF-A15 PWM beats every single fan I've tested to date in every single configuration when comparing noise to temperature ratings. What it means is that the A15 is the most efficient 140mm fan I've tested so far. It is quiet in push mode and dead silent when you use the included low noise adaptor (LNA). When I attached the LNA, I was really surprised by the amount of air it was moving considering its almost inaudible operation on an open test bench.

It just goes to show that all those new technologies with their fancy acronyms do actually work when incorporated correctly and as such, Noctua deserves all the praise they can get for this truly innovative product.

Now, this wouldn't be a complete review if I didn't point out some of the negative and/or controversial aspects of this fan.

The color scheme, for example, is a love or hate thing for most people. It actually doesn't bother me, in fact. it has grown on me since I've been using Noctua fans for quite a while. They are Noctua's distinctive colors, kind of like a national flag and whether you like it or not, they're here to stay.

The other less concerning matter is the price. At 25 bucks a pop it's not exactly cheap, but pretty much all Noctua fans have been carrying the exact same price tag and people still buy them because you do get what you pay for. Consider all the goodies you get with this fan. Rubber grommets for extra vibration dampening, extended fan cable, splitter (Y) cable, low noise adaptor, and to top it all off, a jaw dropping 6 year warranty. It's actually a pretty good deal.

Now I have to address the elephant in the room. This fan gets quite loud when you use it in a pull configuration (At least on my setup) and I found that a bit disappointing. The noise went up by a fair bit than when It was running in push and it started generating that good ol' annoying whining noise. Still, I don't blame it that much since pretty much every other fan I've tested exhibit similar symptoms. It's not as bad when you slap the adaptor on, in fact, it improves noise to temperature efficiency so you do have that option.

Overall, a very impressive product that comes highly recommended from me. More pictures on post #3.


----------



## Sashimi

No doubt this fan is top notch. I've always liked Noctua and I'd have to say I don't mind their color scheme one bit except it they have a hard time finding a matching case. One of these days I'll build myself a timber vintage PC case and these Noctuas will feel right at home. Beyond the looks they've always created some of the highest quality products on the market.

Aside from that, it inevitably still suffers from the same problem as all 140mm fans, and that is lacking in static pressure. There are plenty of reasonably performing 120mm fans out there with perfectly acceptable noise level. I still feel like going from 120mm fans to 140mm fans means I'm sacrificing performance for noise reductions which I don't necessarily need. But that's just my opinions, others may disagree.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #15 - Noctua NF-A14 FLX:





Next up on Noctua's A series fans, we have the NF-A14 FLX, which has standard 140mm form factor. That is to say, they're 100% compatible with radiators.

It shares alot of features with the A15-PWM and F14 ULN such as blade design, rubber grommets, bearings, etc. Performance in push is excellent and so is the efficiency. Value of the latter increases with the use of included low and ultra low noise adaptors.

Pros and cons are pretty much exactly the same as the A15-PWM which I reviewed recently. Chief among cons would be the terrible whining noise in pull and push/pull mode but that has more to do with the heatsink design than the fan so it should not be an issue in mose situations.. On the positive side, it is just as quiet in a push configuration as the A15 while being able to move a ton of air at the same time. I think these fans would be perfect for radiators and watercooling setups and I can't wait to complete my watercooling test bench to see just how capable they are.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 120mm Fan #15 - Noctua NF-A14 FLX:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next up on Noctua's A series fans, we have the NF-A14 FLX, which has standard 140mm form factor. That is to say, they're 100% compatible with radiators.
> 
> It shares alot of features with the A15-PWM and F14 ULN such as blade design, rubber grommets, bearings, etc. Performance in push is excellent and so is the efficiency. Value of the latter increases with the use of included low and ultra low noise adaptors.
> 
> Pros and cons are pretty much exactly the same as the A15-PWM which I reviewed recently. Chief among cons would be the terrible whining noise in pull and push/pull mode. On the positive side, it is just as quiet in a push configuration as the A15 while being able to move a ton of air at the same time. I think these fans would be perfect for radiators and watercooling setups and I can't wait to complete my watercooling test bench to see just how capable they are.


I am getting NF-A14FLX as filtered intake fans for my R4, do you think the terrible whining is just for pull on radiator or does that also apply when these fans are mounted as filtered intake fan?


----------



## NomNomNom

Seems like the cougar turbines are excellent for price/performance. They can be found at 3.84 a fan at computers canada too!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> I am getting NF-A14FLX as filtered intake fans for my R4, do you think the terrible whining is just for pull on radiator or does that also apply when these fans are mounted as filtered intake fan?


I actually tested the FLX using a fan filter and I could barely hear the fan running. I believe that the heatsink I use in my 140mm testing rig is just not suitable for pull mode. So yes, you'll be fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NomNomNom*
> 
> Seems like the cougar turbines are excellent for price/performance. They can be found at 3.84 a fan at computers canada too!


Yeah, pretty good deal at that price.


----------



## ohhgourami

Cyclops, how would you compare the A15 to the TY-140. I wonder if the A15 provides lower temps and noise at the same rpm. And how about the sound profile? I wonder if it's worth $50 over the TY-140s I'm already very happy with except for maybe the barely audible ticking noise.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Cyclops, how would you compare the A15 to the TY-140. I wonder if the A15 provides lower temps and noise at the same rpm. And how about the sound profile? I wonder if it's worth $50 over the TY-140s I'm already very happy with except for maybe the barely audible ticking noise.


I couldn't possibly tell you. I haven't tested the TY-140s yet.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I think they are actually quieter, with the same performance. It was posted in tator tot's fan thread...


----------



## WarDad

Hi Cyclops,
I just finished playing with a Silver Stone FHP141 140mm x 38mm PWM fan. It's not quiet over 1200RPM as it growls. I posted my log here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1203528/official-nvidia-gpu-mod-club-aka-the-mod/3250#post_19130213
I have a pair of Noctua NF-F12 on order now.
BTW: Thank you for this great thread.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarDad*
> 
> Hi Cyclops,
> I just finished playing with a Silver Stone FHP141 140mm x 38mm PWM fan. It's not quiet over 1200RPM as it growls. I posted my log here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1203528/official-nvidia-gpu-mod-club-aka-the-mod/3250#post_19130213
> I have a pair of Noctua NF-F12 on order now.
> BTW: Thank you for this great thread.


Thanks, that's generous of you. I'll see what I can do with a single fan but for a complete test suit I'm gonna need a pair.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #16 - Noctua NF-A14 ULN:





In terms of design, shape and form, this fan is pretty much exactly the same as the NF-A14 FLX model. The difference is that the ULN has a much lower operating RPM range. This product is made for absolute silence. If you are a silent freak, then this is the fan for you.

As with other Noctua A series fans, the ULN boasts some excellent noise to temperature rating numbers. While the LNA adaptor makes this fan even quieter, I don't see why anyone would want to use them as this fan is literally inaudible even when it's about a feat away from your face. At any rate, the option is there if you need it.


----------



## SeD669

Wow great thread!! makes research a little easier


----------



## manny1222

OMG!!!
I've been searching the whole internet for fan comparisons and didn't realize there was such an awesome thread of benchmarks in this forum I visit pretty much everyday. This is awesome, great work cyclops.
I was wondering if you could build a third rig for 120mm fans using an all in one cooler (like H100







). Just asking because I'm hoping to make my case look a little nicer. I currently have cougar vortex CF-V12HB on my H100, and almost purchased Scythe AP-15s recently, but the Xigmatek XAF-F1254 will go best with the theme I have in mind. In your tests, they performed pretty much the same in push/pull. Just want to confirm for rads before buying. Also, if you have the ability, can you include static pressures? Thanx


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manny1222*
> 
> OMG!!!
> I've been searching the whole internet for fan comparisons and didn't realize there was such an awesome thread of benchmarks in this forum I visit pretty much everyday. This is awesome, great work cyclops.
> I was wondering if you could build a third rig for 120mm fans using an all in one cooler (like H100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Just asking because I'm hoping to make my case look a little nicer. I currently have cougar vortex CF-V12HB on my H100, and almost purchased Scythe AP-15s recently, but the Xigmatek XAF-F1254 will go best with the theme I have in mind. In your tests, they performed pretty much the same in push/pull. Just want to confirm for rads before buying. Also, if you have the ability, can you include static pressures? Thanx


Thanks. I do have a plan to make a watercooling testing rig. Gonna use quick disconnects to change between 120, 140, and perhaps other sized radiators.


----------



## nuno_p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks. I do have a plan to make a watercooling testing rig. Gonna use quick disconnects to change between 120, 140, and perhaps other sized radiators.


Excelent.









That was what i was looking for, as i have a Corsair H100 with stock fans and i want better ones.

Good work in the Huge comparison and testing mate.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks. I do have a plan to make a watercooling testing rig. Gonna use quick disconnects to change between 120, 140, and perhaps other sized radiators.


That would be awesome. I've been planning to buy a 140mm rad, but I don't know if there would be a fan that will do the job. Last time martin checked, IIRC, the GT15 with a 120->140 adapter was the best...


----------



## Cyclops

Should I post the results here or move the watercooling stuff to the watercooling thread?


----------



## nuno_p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Should I post the results here or move the watercooling stuff to the watercooling thread?


Post them here.


----------



## Sashimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Should I post the results here or move the watercooling stuff to the watercooling thread?


Exactly what I'm looking for! Fans on radiators vs fans on heatsinks may work a little different after all.

Just post them here I'd say


----------



## Cyclops

Now where do I get fundings from







. I do have all the watercooling parts.


----------



## Captain Mayhem

Cyclops; how long are you going to continue testing? Reason I ask is because I'd like to send you a total of four fans (two pairs) to bench.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Should I post the results here or move the watercooling stuff to the watercooling thread?


Post here and maybe a link in watercooling so they know about and can find it.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Captain Mayhem*
> 
> Cyclops; how long are you going to continue testing? Reason I ask is because I'd like to send you a total of four fans (two pairs) to bench.


As long as I have products and time to test, I don't see why I would ever stop.


----------



## KipH

Fans! I am a fan of fans








For example, I was doing some reviews of fans (stay tuned for them, they are coming soon), so I went to put a new fan on the old CPU cooler. Much to my surprised there was no way to put it on! How was I to know that case and cooler fans are ACTUALLY different? No one mentioned that small point.

But some nice GELID case fans would be nice. The have some new ones out:
GELID Silent Fans are now available in the following new configurations:
- Silent 4 (40mm), Silent 7 (70mm), and Silent 14 (140mm) with fixed fan speed
- (I think Silent) 140mm PWM (140mm) with 4 Pin PWM Control



as they say:
Quote:


> "Our Silent fan have found great acceptance in the PC market and we continue to expand our rang
> of silent affordable fans for various cooling applications", said Gebhard Scherrer, Sales Director o
> GELID Solutions Ltd.
> MSRP: Silent 4 USD 5 / EUR 3.10 Silent 7 USD 5 / EUR 3.10
> Silent 14 USD 7 / EUR 5.20 Silent 14 PWM USD 12 / EUR 8.80
> 
> About GELID Solutions Ltd
> GELID Solutions Ltd. is a Hong Kong based company with Swiss Management. GELID designs and manufactures thermal solutions, CPU & VGA coolers, fans, and other computer hardware for gamers and silent enthusiasts. www.gelidsolutions.com


----------



## KipH

Fans! I am a fan of fans








For example, I was doing some reviews of fans (stay tuned for them, they are coming soon), so I went to put a new fan on the old CPU cooler. Much to my surprised there was no way to put it on! How was I to know that case and cooler fans are ACTUALLY different? No one mentioned that small point.

But some nice GELID case fans would be nice. The have some new ones out:
GELID Silent Fans are now available in the following new configurations:
- Silent 4 (40mm), Silent 7 (70mm), and Silent 14 (140mm) with fixed fan speed
- (I think Silent) 140mm PWM (140mm) with 4 Pin PWM Control



as they say:
Quote:


> "Our Silent fan have found great acceptance in the PC market and we continue to expand our rang
> of silent affordable fans for various cooling applications", said Gebhard Scherrer, Sales Director o
> GELID Solutions Ltd.
> MSRP: Silent 4 USD 5 / EUR 3.10 Silent 7 USD 5 / EUR 3.10
> Silent 14 USD 7 / EUR 5.20 Silent 14 PWM USD 12 / EUR 8.80
> 
> About GELID Solutions Ltd
> GELID Solutions Ltd. is a Hong Kong based company with Swiss Management. GELID designs and manufactures thermal solutions, CPU & VGA coolers, fans, and other computer hardware for gamers and silent enthusiasts. www.gelidsolutions.com


----------



## Cyclops

Well, I'd be interested in testing the 140mm version. 70mm? That size is a bit odd unless you're talking stock AMD coolers.


----------



## ElevenEleven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 120mm Fan #16 - Noctua NF-A14 ULN:
> 
> As with other Noctua A series fans, the ULN boasts some excellent noise to temperature rating numbers. While the LNA adaptor makes this fan even quieter, I don't see why anyone would want to use them as this fan is literally inaudible even when it's about a feat away from your face. At any rate, the option is there if you need it.


Question about the whining noise you reported in your review of NF-A14 FLX - is that only when Incoming airflow is closely blocked, such as by mounting against a dense radiator in pull configuration? I'm thinking of getting 2 of these fans for intake fan purposes, and they would be mounted against a perforated case grill, so I'd not sure if that would be enough of a low separation between fans and grill to cause whine. Basically what was the exact scenario in which the noticeable whine appeared? Thanks!!!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElevenEleven*
> 
> Question about the whining noise you reported in your review of NF-A14 FLX - is that only when Incoming airflow is closely blocked, such as by mounting against a dense radiator in pull configuration? I'm thinking of getting 2 of these fans for intake fan purposes, and they would be mounted against a perforated case grill, so I'd not sure if that would be enough of a low separation between fans and grill to cause whine. Basically what was the exact scenario in which the noticeable whine appeared? Thanks!!!


Pretty much every single 140mm fan that I've tested whine when they're running in pull. I don't think that would be a problem for you though.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Pretty much every single 140mm fan that I've tested whine when they're running in pull. I don't think that would be a problem for you though.


Even the Thermalright TY140?


----------



## ElevenEleven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Pretty much every single 140mm fan that I've tested whine when they're running in pull. I don't think that would be a problem for you though.


Thanks. I've noticed that with 12cm Scythe GTs too (AP-14s). Putting a hand over them on the intake side produces a distinct whine. I tried to space my two pull GTs some distance away from a radiator, so they are pretty quiet now. I have 2 Silverstone mesh filters / fan guards on the push ones, and that doesn't produce enough impedance to the airflow to produce whine.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Even the Thermalright TY140?


Haven't tested those yet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElevenEleven*
> 
> Thanks. I've noticed that with 12cm Scythe GTs too (AP-14s). Putting a hand over them on the intake side produces a distinct whine. I tried to space my two pull GTs some distance away from a radiator, so they are pretty quiet now. I have 2 Silverstone mesh filters / fan guards on the push ones, and that doesn't produce enough impedance to the airflow to produce whine.


That's good. You could also use a fan shroud as a spacer. There are some 12mm thick 120/140mm fans out there that you can use if you're short on space, but you'd have to cannibalize them.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Haven't tested those yet.
> That's good. You could also use a fan shroud as a spacer. There are some 12mm thick 120/140mm fans out there that you can use if you're short on space, but you'd have to cannibalize them.


Oh ok.

Does the AP-29 exhibit the same behavior when used as a pull fan in a radiator?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok.
> 
> Does the AP-29 exhibit the same behavior when used as a pull fan in a radiator?


I have not tested the AP-29 either







. Bear in mind that only the 140mm heatsink exhibits the infamous whining noise. 120mm does as well, but it's not as bad as the 140.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm thinking of combining both 120 and 140mm testing rigs and use one single heatsink to test 120 and 140mm fans. Do you guys know of any single tower heatsinks that can fit both types of fans? Space isn't an issue as it's an open test bench. I prefer an easy mounting mechanicsm (For the fans) as I'm using elastic rubber bands to secure them in place (140mm fans).


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm thinking of combining both 120 and 140mm testing rigs and use one single heatsink to test 120 and 140mm fans. Do you guys know of any single tower heatsinks that can fit both types of fans? Space isn't an issue as it's an open test bench. I prefer an easy mounting mechanicsm (For the fans) as I'm using elastic rubber bands to secure them in place (140mm fans).


Prolimatech Armageddon or Genesis, Thermalright True Spirit 140, Archon SB-E, or Silver Arrow/Silver Arrow SB-E, Xigmatek SD1484 Prime, Phanteks TC14PE or TC14CS, and the Noctua NH-D14/NH-D14 SE2011, NH-C14, or NH-C12P SE14. I'm sure there are a few more I'm forgetting, but those all support 120mm or 140mm fans and have pretty easy mounting mechanisms.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Prolimatech Armageddon or Genesis, Thermalright True Spirit 140, Archon SB-E, or Silver Arrow/Silver Arrow SB-E, Xigmatek SD1484 Prime, Phanteks TC14PE or TC14CS, and the Noctua NH-D14/NH-D14 SE2011, NH-C14, or NH-C12P SE14. I'm sure there are a few more I'm forgetting, but those all support 120mm or 140mm fans and have pretty easy mounting mechanisms.


Most of those are not "Single Tower" heatsinks, and alot of them are a bit small to take advantage of a full sized 140mm fan.

Archon SB-E and Archon SB-E X2 seem to be great choices though. Anyone know the exact size difference? Dimensions seem to be exactly the same.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Most of those are not "Single Tower" heatsinks, and alot of them are a bit small to take advantage of a full sized 140mm fan.
> 
> Archon SB-E and Archon SB-E X2 seem to be great choices though. Anyone know the exact size difference? Dimensions seem to be exactly the same.


The Armageddon, Prime, Archon, NH-C12P SE14, TC14CS, and True Spirit 140 are all single rad towers (unless you don't consider downward facing heatsinks to be towers) and you can easily treat the Genesis as a single rad tower given the radiator configuration.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Most of those are not "Single Tower" heatsinks, and alot of them are a bit small to take advantage of a full sized 140mm fan.
> 
> Archon SB-E and Archon SB-E X2 seem to be great choices though. Anyone know the exact size difference? Dimensions seem to be exactly the same.


Think the difference is the base. SB-E X2 is the first to get the thicker old style base which they are going back to on the premium coolers. The SB-E has the thinner base like new Silver Arrow SB-E, Macho HR-02 and True Spirit series. Personally I think the thicker base is better.

Without too much work a couple of shrouds could be made to fit face of cooler from 120mm and 140mm round openings. This way all the air from fan would be sealed and forced into cooler.. If that matters to you.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Think the difference is the base. SB-E X2 is the first to get the thicker old style base which they are going back to on the premium coolers. The SB-E has the thinner base like new Silver Arrow SB-E, Macho HR-02 and True Spirit series. Personally I think the thicker base is better.
> 
> Without too much work a couple of shrouds could be made to fit face of cooler from 120mm and 140mm round openings. This way all the air from fan would be sealed and forced into cooler.. If that matters to you.


Perhaps they've increased back the fins count?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Perhaps they've increased back the fins count?


Both have 44 fins, are same size, same number and size of pipes. The SB-E X2 has a thicker heavier base.


----------



## Cyclops

Tsk, well I'm gonna have to ask Thermalright if they will send or sell me one as I can't find any Archon SB-E X2 online anywhere.


----------



## nubbinator

Nan's Gaming Gear and Amazon are going to be the two places that will carry it, maybe Superbiiz. Thermalright isn't really doing much to make their presence known in North America right now and are pretty hard to get in contact with.

You're better off getting the Archon Rev.A, Archon SB-E, or one of the other tower heatsinks (True Spirit 140, Prime, Armageddon) or horizontal single rad heatsinks (NH-C12P SE14, TC14CS) than trying to get the Archon SB-E X2.


----------



## Cyclops

Got a batch of Noctua NF-S12A coming (FLX, ULN, and PWM models). Very exciting stuff.


----------



## ElevenEleven

Question: has anyone noticed the low hum Phanteks 140mm fans make? I don't know if it's just mine, but I can't have it anywhere but low RPM, because it makes an increasingly noticeable bassy hum.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElevenEleven*
> 
> Question: has anyone noticed the low hum Phanteks 140mm fans make? I don't know if it's just mine, but I can't have it anywhere but low RPM, because it makes an increasingly noticeable bassy hum.


Of course there is. Those fans move quite a lot of air. I'd use the included noise adaptors if I were you. They work quite well.


----------



## Cancer

Subbed.


----------



## ElevenEleven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Of course there is. Those fans move quite a lot of air. I'd use the included noise adaptors if I were you. They work quite well.


I run them at low RPM already, because even medium range RPM makes a low bassy hum. Mind you, their RPM range is very small as it is. So 900RPM is good, but at 1050RPM I already start to hear the hum.


----------



## toolio20

Warms my heart to see you're still at it, one-eye!







Excellent work, and still very sorely needed.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toolio20*
> 
> Warms my heart to see you're still at it, one-eye!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent work, and still very sorely needed.


Thank you.

I've been meaning to post new stuff, but there's a construction site right across the street from me and there's just no way for me to get accurate sound measurements during the day. Gotta roll up my sleeves and stay up one night so I can finish everything that's due I supose.


----------



## samuelspark

Bookmarked. Really excellent work


----------



## HaunteR

Is there a summary of Best Push, RPM/ dB ratios?

I couldn't seem to find one.

Would be amazing when you get your site up!


----------



## PatrickCrowely

I ended up reading this thread. Picked up some Xigmatek 1255 fans. I would've never thought, but they perform well, just as your tests indicated....

Thank you


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PatrickCrowely*
> 
> I ended up reading this thread. Picked up some Xigmatek 1255 fans. I would've never thought, but they perform well, just as your tests indicated....
> 
> Thank you


Glad to have helped.


----------



## Sashimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PatrickCrowely*
> 
> I ended up reading this thread. Picked up some Xigmatek 1255 fans. I would've never thought, but they perform well, just as your tests indicated....
> 
> Thank you


I own a couple of the Xigmatek 1255 fans. From a performance perspective I would prefer GT AP-15 over this to be honest. better performance, less noise. What the Xigmatek has going for it is the cheap price and pretty LED lights.


----------



## HaunteR

Is there like a "Best of" fans spread sheet?

Like a fan that overall as the best score in terms of PCF and low dB?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaunteR*
> 
> Is there like a "Best of" fans spread sheet?
> 
> Like a fan that overall as the best score in terms of PCF and low dB?


Yeah, look at noise to temperature rating.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sashimi*
> 
> I own a couple of the Xigmatek 1255 fans. From a performance perspective I would prefer GT AP-15 over this to be honest. better performance, less noise. What the Xigmatek has going for it is the cheap price and pretty LED lights.


AP-15 is not quieter than the CL1255. It also has a horrible whining noise in pull mode.


----------



## HaunteR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> AP-15 is not quieter than the CL1255. It also has a horrible whining noise in pull mode.


Repped for this thread thanks!

Just curious if you're going to be using Swiftech's Helix fans?

I mean the new benchmarks seems incredible.


----------



## Sashimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> AP-15 is not quieter than the CL1255. It also has a horrible whining noise in pull mode.


Sorry you're right. While noise quality is subjected, raw db is on average lower for the Xigmatek.

The AP-15 does have overall better performance to db ratio except push and pull, an explanation could be because the AP-15s natively sport high static pressure that their full potential in push/pull is restricted in your test setup, as oppose to the Xigmatek with lower static pressure per fan, which can really reap the benefits of push/pull. Run the same test using a high density rad for example would probably have different result.

AP-15 after all is know really good for rads, ok for heatsinks and just average as a case fan afterall. I grabbed the xigmateks myself as case fans and only used AP-15 for my high density GTX rads.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaunteR*
> 
> Repped for this thread thanks!
> 
> Just curious if you're going to be using Swiftech's Helix fans?
> 
> I mean the new benchmarks seems incredible.


Well I sent them an e-mail to see if they're interested in sending me some fans. Let's wait and see.


----------



## HaunteR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well I sent them an e-mail to see if they're interested in sending me some fans. Let's wait and see.


Cool, will like to see how it turns out.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I love your graphs and the sheer amount of work you've put into this Cyclops...
I had the chance of testing my 120x38 Nidec Beta-v ta450dc (5300rpm, 2bb bearing, pwm, 3.3a) using a pwm splitter cable to control rpm via the mobo header. I gotta say I'm impressed by the quietness at low rpm, when spun north of 2000rpm it gets noisy though, like a jet taking off








Airflow is impressive and pressure is insane though, it can push air through both my Silver Arrow's towers and the case mesh and dust filters like they didn't even exist


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I love your graphs and the sheer amount of work you've put into this Cyclops...
> I had the chance of testing my 120x38 Nidec Beta-v ta450dc (5300rpm, 2bb bearing, pwm, 3.3a) using a pwm splitter cable to control rpm via the mobo header. I gotta say I'm impressed by the quietness at low rpm, when spun north of 2000rpm it gets noisy though, like a jet taking off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airflow is impressive and pressure is insane though, it can push air through both my Silver Arrow's towers and the case mesh and dust filters like they didn't even exist


I bet. Although 5300 RPM is not over 9000, I know how much airflow it generates at that speed.


----------



## ivanlabrie

hehe...220cfm technically, not sure at lower rpm, but it's more than enough at minimum speed. I tried one pushing air through the filter and hdd cage and it moved air decently too. Quite a feat!


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #52 - Phobya Nano-G 12 PWM Silent:





It's been a while since I last reviewed a fan, but thanks to Performance PCS, I've got a couple of Phobya fans to test. This one is the Nano-G 12 PWM silent edition.

Despite the name, this particular product isn't really silent, at least not in my tests. It does have PWM functionality, but since I test every fan at it's peak performance, it didn't really make a difference. The option is there though if you have the ability to control it via PWM which is always a plus.

One of the unique features that this fan has is the ability to turn the LEDs on or off via a switch. It's a nice thing to have, although I don't think anyone would have any use for it once the fans are installed and in place. I should also mention that the cables are braided and the quality of the braid is excellent.

The other feature is rather unusual. Phobya claims that these fans are waterproof. They say that for easy cleaning, you can simply take the fan apart and rinse it under water. Let it dry and it'll be good to go. That's a very interesting thing to incorporate in a fan.

There are fans out there that can beat the Nano-G 12. Both in terms of performance and quietness so you might want to look elsewhere if you're clinical about performance. Still, if you like it's unique functionalities, then I would say it's a solid choice


----------



## FlashFir

What would you guys say about using AP122's on my PS07B as intakes?

I'm running Swiftech Helixes and I have a feeling that high static pressure tends to push air very poorly... as the GentleTyphoons do "horribly" on this test as case fans...





See my sigrig for the fan positioning.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> What would you guys say about using AP122's on my PS07B as intakes?


Air penetrators are perfect for internal chassis airflow. They work best If you don't have anything obstructive in front of them.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> What would you guys say about using AP122's on my PS07B as intakes?
> 
> 
> 
> Air penetrators are perfect for internal chassis airflow. They work best If you don't have anything obstructive in front of them.
Click to expand...

You haven't tested AP121's right? AP122's are sleeve and spin slower so I'm guessing they're perfect for me... =o


----------



## Cyclops

AP121's spin slightly faster so obviously they move more air and are louder.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #53 - Fractal Design Silent Series R2:





I got these fans from two Core 1000 Chassis. I assume they are included with many Fractal Design cases.

The braiding is decent considering that these are OEM fans. The black and white color scheme gives it a nice contrast as well. Performance wes good on push mode and it scaled reasonably well in other conifigurations. The retail version is about 12 bucks on NCIX and it does come with rubber fasteners and a fan speed reducer so it has relatively good value.


----------



## Snuckie7

Hey guys, what would you recommend for a good fan for case airflow?

I'm looking for : At least mostly black (no tacky LEDs), good CFM/dB ratio, reasonably focused airflow, and has to be able to intake from the sides without any issues.

Budget is about $20 or so.

The last fan I bought (Cougar Vortex) ran into problems with the whole side intake thing, because I'm mounting the fan to the front of my Corsair 550D, and there is a panel blocking the front of the fan.


----------



## FlashFir

AP122 or AP121?


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> AP122 or AP121?


Are those fans any good though? The grill looks kind of restrictive, and I'm a little skeptical about the price.


----------



## FlashFir

The grills are precisely what makes them good. They probably make the best case fans


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> The grills are precisely what makes them good. They probably make the best case fans


Oh wow that looks very nice.

Does the AP122 perform on the same level or better?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> The grills are precisely what makes them good. They probably make the best case fans


Is this info a general info among the enthusiasts here though?


----------



## ivanlabrie

There are other focused flow fans like that, but they tend to be not so good with static pressure heavy scenarios (like restrictive grills/mesh and/or heatsinks/rads)


----------



## Cyclops

They are the same fan. 122 is rated for 1500 RPM while 121 is rated for 1200 RPM. Pick your poison.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> They are the same fan. 122 is rated for 1500 RPM while 121 is rated for 1200 RPM. Pick your poison.


I have the AP121, it is 1500rpm, but just 35 cfm.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> They are the same fan. 122 is rated for 1500 RPM while 121 is rated for 1200 RPM. Pick your poison.


Nope, the AP122 is an FN121 (or FN121-P) blade in the AP121 frame and rated at FN121 speeds.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> They are the same fan. 122 is rated for 1500 RPM while 121 is rated for 1200 RPM. Pick your poison.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, the AP122 is an FN121 (or FN121-P) blade in the AP121 frame and rated at FN121 speeds.
Click to expand...

Implications?

I'm looking at AP122's and they're looking more attractive to me as intakes especially given my case lay out (see sig rig)

And the fact that I'm probably gonna have a 120rad replacing my Vapor-X cooler, making focused airflow over GPU VRMs more important.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Implications?
> 
> I'm looking at AP122's and they're looking more attractive to me as intakes especially given my case lay out (see sig rig)
> 
> And the fact that I'm probably gonna have a 120rad replacing my Vapor-X cooler, making focused airflow over GPU VRMs more important.


I don't have first hand experience with them and haven't seen many discussions or good reviews of them, so I don't really feel qualified to pass judgement over them. I just wanted to clear up the confusion about them since the differences between them and the AP121 is more than just speed.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #54 - Silverstone SST-FN121-P:





Well, lots of talk about this fan lately so it's only fitting to review a pair of them.

The blade design is pretty much identical to most other 120mm Silverstone fans which is a good thing, because is it a very efficient design. The noise to temperature efficiency is excellent. I'm sure with a bit of fan control magic, it can be improved even further.

It's pretty plain and with typical unbraided cables, it looks barebone. This product is all about performance and the numbers can back that up.

If you're in Canada, you're in luck, because you can get these fans for a mere $3.91 a pop from Here. I know I'm gonna grab a few.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 120mm Fan #52 - Phobya Nano-G 12 PWM Silent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I last reviewed a fan, but thanks to Performance PCS, I've got a couple of Phobya fans to test. This one is the Nano-G 12 PWM silent edition.
> 
> Despite the name, this particular product isn't really silent, at least not in my tests. It does have PWM functionality, but since I test every fan at it's peak performance, it didn't really make a difference. The option is there though if you have the ability to control it via PWM which is always a plus.
> 
> One of the unique features that this fan has is the ability to turn the LEDs on or off via a switch. It's a nice thing to have, although I don't think anyone would have any use for it once the fans are installed and in place. I should also mention that the cables are braided and the quality of the braid is excellent.
> 
> The other feature is rather unusual. Phobya claims that these fans are waterproof. They say that for easy cleaning, you can simply take the fan apart and rinse it under water. Let it dry and it'll be good to go. That's a very interesting thing to incorporate in a fan.
> 
> There are fans out there that can beat the Nano-G 12. Both in terms of performance and quietness so you might want to look elsewhere if you're clinical about performance. Still, if you like it's unique functionalities, then I would say it's a solid choice


I just wanted to add that Phobya is basically the same as Gelid fans. Phobyas basically use Gelid as their OEM.

Also as a request, is it possible to include the page number where the mini- review / comments for each fan is? At least if people are so inclined to have a look at your comments, they can just go directly to the page.

Thanks!


----------



## Cyclops

Coming up in a few days... * drum roll * ... entire family of Noctua NF-S12A fans.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Awesome!


----------



## FlashFir

Appreciate it! Stuff like this is why I <3 OCN


----------



## Tyler Dalton

I was reading the thread and you said you had to re-apply your TIM. I've had my Megahalems Rev C mounted for over a year, do you think I should take it off and remount it? I have noticed the temps are a little higher than I remember. I originally used the TIM that came with the cooler which I believe is the PK-1.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> I was reading the thread and you said you had to re-apply your TIM. I've had my Megahalems Rev C mounted for over a year, do you think I should take it off and remount it? I have noticed the temps are a little higher than I remember. I originally used the TIM that came with the cooler which I believe is the PK-1.


No no, I originally used Indigo Xtreme. The problem with that particular tim was that it was susceptible to changing shape if too much heat was applied, therefore losing it's consistency. You probably don't need to change your tim.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm thinking about using the 120mm testing rig to test 140mm fans as well and scrap the 140mm rig. The heatsinks are about the same size and pros and cons are pretty much the same. Plus you will be able to directly compare both 120mm and 140mm fans.

The 140mm rig won't go to waste. I can put another heatsink on it to test 80/92mm fans.

What do you guys think?


----------



## ivanlabrie

WHOOPS! Delete this please...


----------



## ivanlabrie

Hmmm, I like the unified platform for 120 and 140mm fans.
Not sure what you could do with the second test rig though...92mm fans are an oddity these days, let alone 80mm.
(Luckily) Hate 80mm fans with a passion.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Hmmm, I like the unified platform for 120 and 140mm fans.
> Not sure what you could do with the second test rig though...92mm fans are an oddity these days, let alone 80mm.
> (Luckily) Hate 80mm fans with a passion.


There are alot of chassis that use 80/92mm fans, specialy small form factors. You'd be surprised.


----------



## ohhgourami

Put up the NF-S12A test already!









Ordered a pair which I'll get on Friday. Hopefully I'm not disappointed.


----------



## Tyler Dalton

I would say to test both the 120mm and the 140mm fans on the Megahalems. I'm not really able to get good comparisons the way it is now. I currently have a Megahalems so that info benefits me greatly.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> I would say to test both the 120mm and the 140mm fans on the Megahalems. I'm not really able to get good comparisons the way it is now. I currently have a Megahalems so that info benefits me greatly.


Well, aren't you selfish







.


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, aren't you selfish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hey at least I was honest


----------



## Cyclops

Just got eight pairs of fans from Delta - yes eight pairs







- but there was a slight issue with them. None of them had any fan headers and only came with bare wires as you can see from this photo:



Is there any easy way of attaching a fan header to the wires? Would it require soldering?

PS: They all have four wires for PWM.


----------



## PR-Imagery

Yep, just get a 4pin or 3pin fan header kit, stick the pins on wires and crimp/clamp to the pin, stick pins in header.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9236/ele-462/FrozenCPU_4-pin_Female_PWM_Fan_Connector_-_Black.html?tl=g51c387s1003


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PR-Imagery*
> 
> Yep, just get a 4pin or 3pin fan header kit, stick the pins on wires and crimp/clamp to the pin, stick pins in header.
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9236/ele-462/FrozenCPU_4-pin_Female_PWM_Fan_Connector_-_Black.html?tl=g51c387s1003


Thanks. Now to find something similar in Canada







.


----------



## Cyclops

Found some







:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10pcs-4-Pin-PWM-3-4-Vertical-Header-Cooling-Fan-Power-Connector-Head-Plug-Jack-/271159854780?pt=US_Computer_Case_Fans&hash=item3f226306bc


----------



## ohhgourami

Just solder directly to the motherboard


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Just solder directly to the motherboard


Yeah, why didn't I think of that? Might as well solder the CPU to the socket too while I'm at it







.


----------



## ivanlabrie

No need for solder, press the cable into the 4pin connector and it should work.. I used to do tthatt with my sunon bare wire fans


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Just solder directly to the motherboard


I wouldn't do that because it can be really messy. A proper connector will really come in handy with these situations.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I wouldn't do that because it can be really messy. A proper connector will really come in handy with these situations.


Don't understand sarcasm?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Don't understand sarcasm?


No


----------



## nleksan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Just got eight pairs of fans from Delta - yes eight pairs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - but there was a slight issue with them. None of them had any fan headers and only came with bare wires as you can see from this photo:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any easy way of attaching a fan header to the wires? Would it require soldering?
> 
> PS: They all have four wires for PWM.


Haha, I currently have about two dozen (or so) Delta, Panaflo, San-Ace, and Nidec fans (120x38 mostly, a few 120x25, a few 92/80/70x15/10mm) sitting around, all of which came from DELL machines and thus all had that stupid "proprietary" 5-Pin/4-Wire connector on the end until I got busy with a staple and got the Dell "fan headers" off.

The best part? THEY USE DIFFERENT COLOR WIRES! It's like they intentionally don't want their fans being used, and actually want to damage things if someone tries to use them outside their own proprietary motherboards!

So now I get to buy ~40 of the 4-Pin PWM MOLEX Connectors for the fans and try and not only sleeve them all, but get them properly arranged so that they work!

Oh, even better...the colors are different across each fan family!! What the hell is that?

Oh well, it'll be worth it... 5x 120x38mm fans that push 184CFM and 24.82mmH2O, each! YES PLEASE!


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Haha, I currently have about two dozen (or so) Delta, Panaflo, San-Ace, and Nidec fans (120x38 mostly, a few 120x25, a few 92/80/70x15/10mm) sitting around, all of which came from DELL machines and thus all had that stupid "proprietary" 5-Pin/4-Wire connector on the end until I got busy with a staple and got the Dell "fan headers" off.
> 
> The best part? THEY USE DIFFERENT COLOR WIRES! It's like they intentionally don't want their fans being used, and actually want to damage things if someone tries to use them outside their own proprietary motherboards!
> 
> So now I get to buy ~40 of the 4-Pin PWM MOLEX Connectors for the fans and try and not only sleeve them all, but get them properly arranged so that they work!
> 
> Oh, even better...the colors are different across each fan family!! What the hell is that?
> 
> Oh well, it'll be worth it... 5x 120x38mm fans that push 184CFM and 24.82mmH2O, each! YES PLEASE!


I hate those proprietary connectors with a passion...gotta look up the color pattern for each one.








My 120x38 fan is silent at 1500rpm, amazing 2ball bearing.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Haha, I currently have about two dozen (or so) Delta, Panaflo, San-Ace, and Nidec fans (120x38 mostly, a few 120x25, a few 92/80/70x15/10mm) sitting around, all of which came from DELL machines and thus all had that stupid "proprietary" 5-Pin/4-Wire connector on the end until I got busy with a staple and got the Dell "fan headers" off.
> 
> The best part? THEY USE DIFFERENT COLOR WIRES! It's like they intentionally don't want their fans being used, and actually want to damage things if someone tries to use them outside their own proprietary motherboards!
> 
> So now I get to buy ~40 of the 4-Pin PWM MOLEX Connectors for the fans and try and not only sleeve them all, but get them properly arranged so that they work!
> 
> Oh, even better...the colors are different across each fan family!! What the hell is that?
> 
> Oh well, it'll be worth it... 5x 120x38mm fans that push 184CFM and 24.82mmH2O, each! YES PLEASE!


I hear ya, but I found each and every model's data sheet and all of them have mentioned which wire does what.

You can look them up here:

http://www.delta-fan.com/


----------



## sakerfalcon

Has anyone had experience with the newer Noctua NF-A15 fans?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sakerfalcon*
> 
> Has anyone had experience with the newer Noctua NF-A15 fans?


Already tested them.


----------



## sakerfalcon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Already tested them.


Whoops, somehow missed it. They also aren't in the bar graphs. Keep up the good work, very informative thread.


----------



## Cyclops

I thought you guys might find this interesting. Warning: science material:


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Would be great if these where tested with Radiators. Also noise level is not always the factor. Some fans can make different hums or motor noise which can be annoying.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Would be great if these where tested with Radiators. Also noise level is not always the factor. Some fans can make different hums or motor noise which can be annoying.


Yeah, gonna have to make a watercooling testing rig as well. Not enough funds right now.


----------



## sorance2000

I am sorry you didn`t include Akasa fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sorance2000*
> 
> I am sorry you didn`t include Akasa fans.


Don't be sorry, it's not your fault.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #55 - Noctua NF-S12A PWM:





At last, NF-S12A. This is the PWM version which would, theoretically, make it the most flexible option amongst it's family, provided you have a compatible motherboard.

As you can see from the testing results, they perform quite well, but NF-P12s still beat them in terms of efficiency. These fans move a ton of air, but due to the extreme angle of the blades, it's best to use them where there is little or no restriction.

They come with the latest technologies first seen with Noctua's NF-14/15 fans such as flow acceleration channels, stepped inlet, dimpled inner body, etc.

As I mentioned earlier, these fans are designed for general airflow. They specifically don't like their inlet side blocked as it will hamper their performance, a fact that I discovered when I ran them in pull mode. That being said, I did not witness any whining noise when I used them in that configuration. A general phenomenon that I've seen happening with a lot of other products.

The packaging is pretty standard as is the case with many other Noctua fans. A Y splitter, an extension cable, a low noise adapter, some screws, and two pairs of anti vibration rubber grommets are included in the bundle. Giving you a lot of flexibility to use them in a variety of situations.

Overall, I'm really impressed by the NF-S12A PWM. I just can't wait for Noctua to release a modified version of P12 or F12 with all the new features of this and the F14/15 fans. I'm just hoping that something like that is in the works as we speak.


----------



## sakerfalcon

How big of a difference do you think this data will have when applied to radiators?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sakerfalcon*
> 
> How big of a difference do you think this data will have when applied to radiators?


Should generate similar results with low FPI radiators, although don't be surprised if not all of them are identical in the order that are listed here.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #56 - Noctua NF-S12A FLX:





Sorry about the long delay between the reviews guys. I've been having technical difficulties with my testing equipment. I'm happy to say that things are back on track and I'm here with a review on Noctua NF-S12A FLX.

Just like it's other sibling, the S12A PWM, the FLX has pretty much exactly the same stats. What's different is that the FLX does not come with PWM technology, but it comes with an extra ultra low noise adaptor which reduces the speed of the blades even further.

Using the included ULNA makes this unit utterly silent, although performance will suffer quite a bit. The standard low noise adaptor should be all you need to make your system as quiet as possible without sacrificing too much airflow, but you do have the option to take it a step further if you really wanted to.

Overall an excellent product which is suited for internal airflow / case exhaust. Due to S12A's extremely narrow blades, you're better off using it where the fan's intake has little to no restriction.


----------



## PontiacGTX

where are XSPC Xinruilians 2000 RPMs and Koolance 12025HBK?
could you add them?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PontiacGTX*
> 
> where are XSPC Xinruilians 2000 RPMs and Koolance 12025HBK?
> could you add them?


Well, XSPC has sent me a pair of 1200, 1600, and 2000 RPM 120mm Xinruilian fans. Expect a review soon.


----------



## S.M.

So, apart from longevity, the Apevia CF12S is a good fan?


----------



## S.M.

OCN derped.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *S.M.*
> 
> So, apart from longevity, the Apevia CF12S is a good fan?


Seems to be doing well for what it costs.


----------



## Tyler Dalton

Hey, I was looking through your fan data and have a question. I currently have 1 Noctua NF-F12 on my Megahalems in push. You have that at 48.85C at 41db. I saw your recent numbers on the NF-S12A and you have one of those in push at 47.65C at 36.3db. Is that right? Also I see that when you put the NF-S12A in Push/Pull it drops all the way to 44.1C. My main problem with push pull is no matter what fan I've tried, it seems like the pull fan makes a whining sound, almost a whistling. I'm trying to figure out if going from my one NF-F12 in push to 2 NF-S12A's in push/pull would be worth it. I already tried one NF-S12A I have in pull with the NF-F12 in push and only got about 1 degree difference if that.


----------



## S.M.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Seems to be doing well for what it costs.


I'll give them a shot. I usually buy Masscool FDV120's for everything.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tyler Dalton*
> 
> Hey, I was looking through your fan data and have a question. I currently have 1 Noctua NF-F12 on my Megahalems in push. You have that at 48.85C at 41db. I saw your recent numbers on the NF-S12A and you have one of those in push at 47.65C at 36.3db. Is that right? Also I see that when you put the NF-S12A in Push/Pull it drops all the way to 44.1C. My main problem with push pull is no matter what fan I've tried, it seems like the pull fan makes a whining sound, almost a whistling. I'm trying to figure out if going from my one NF-F12 in push to 2 NF-S12A's in push/pull would be worth it. I already tried one NF-S12A I have in pull with the NF-F12 in push and only got about 1 degree difference if that.


You're probably looking at an old test. I had a TIM problem at one point so some of the tests were compromised. I re-did every single fan after I changed the thermal interface and pretty much all of them performed better the second time around. If you look at post #2 you should be able to see the updated results for NF-F12 which is a lot better than 48.75C at 41db.

As for the whining noise for pull or push/pull, almost all of the fans that I've tested show the same symptom if you're running them around 1100 RPM or higher. Some more than others. You could pair your F12 with something like an Enermax T.B.Silence UCTB12N. I don't recall whining noise with that particular fan but I can't guarantee the same results when it's being used in conjunction with another product.

At any rate, you won't see a whole lot of improvement if you're going to use another fan with around the same noise output as the F12. 1-4 C maximum.


----------



## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, XSPC has sent me a pair of 1200, 1600, and 2000 RPM 120mm Xinruilian fans. Expect a review soon.


ok thanks!


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #57 - Noctua NF-S12A ULN:





The final NF-S12A fan, the ULN model, is the quietest of them all as ULN stands for "Ultra Low Noise". Unsurprisingly, it moves the least amount of air amongst its siblings. The efficiency though, is outstanding.

There isn't much I haven't mentioned in my previous S12A reviews other than the fact that for all intents and purposes, this fan is utterly silent. I don't see the point in including a low noise adaptor for such an incredibly quiet product but Noctua did it anyway. It didn't improve the efficiency but it did make the unit even quieter as you can see from my test results.

All that remains now is for Noctua to refresh the P12 and F12 line up with the latest and greatest features we've seen in their products that were launched a couple of months back. i.e. NF-A14 / NF-A15 / NF-S12A.


----------



## Cancer

I have five AP-31's and would like to see how they stack up to the rest of the fans on the list.

Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 5400 RPM (D1225C12BBAP-31)
Model Number: D1225C12BBAP-31
Fan Speed: 5400 RPM
Noise: 50.5dBA
Airflow: 150.1 CFM
Rated Voltage: DC12V
Rated Current: 1.14A
Dimensions: 120x120x25mm
Connectors: 4-Pin w/ RPM line
Bearing Type: Double Ball Bearings


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> I have five AP-31's and would like to see how they stack up to the rest of the fans on the list.
> 
> Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 5400 RPM (D1225C12BBAP-31)
> Model Number: D1225C12BBAP-31
> Fan Speed: 5400 RPM
> Noise: 50.5dBA
> Airflow: 150.1 CFM
> Rated Voltage: DC12V
> Rated Current: 1.14A
> Dimensions: 120x120x25mm
> Connectors: 4-Pin w/ RPM line
> Bearing Type: Double Ball Bearings


I suspect a lot of airflow and a lot of noise. Should give Deltas a run for their money.


----------



## Cancer

Mmmm yeah I can definitely confirm the high airflow and high noise......I'm wondering how they compare temperature wise though.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> Mmmm yeah I can definitely confirm the high airflow and high noise......I'm wondering how they compare temperature wise though.


Well, I don't have a pair to test so.. wink wink.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #58 - XSPC Xinruilian 1200 RPM RDL1225S:





I have three different models of XSPC Xinruilian 120mm fans. They are 1200, 1650, and 2000 RPM models. We're going to be looking at the 1200 RPM version today which unsurprisingly, happens to be the quietest of the three.

It's a very bare bone product as you can see from the picture. It is, however, quite functional. The fan is very quiet in a push configuration but it does get a little bit louder in other operating modes. The efficiency is excellent as you can see from the results.

Overall, it's a pretty underrated product. It's not flashy, comes with decent black braiding and moves a lot of air for the amount of noise it generates.


----------



## neXen

did you happen to cover the akasa viper FN059s anytime?

i did not see them listed


----------



## fishhawk

Glad I found this, I am constantly buying and testing fans, also I have a good chance of trying different ones,
since I build systems on the side, a few a year.

Didn't read this thread yet, but thought I would through this in.
Just bought and installed 2 Koolance 120mmx 25/107cfm, 26dba rateing, 5.35 static pressure/ 2600 rpm 3 pin.
I have to say for 12.50 a piece that includes shipping, I,m very impressed with them and will be trying more
koolance fans. Sound/cooling/ build is very good.Nice long wires too.

Now will go back to reading this whole thread!!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neXen*
> 
> did you happen to cover the akasa viper FN059s anytime?
> 
> i did not see them listed


I haven't tested any fans from Akasa.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishhawk*
> 
> Glad I found this, I am constantly buying and testing fans, also I have a good chance of trying different ones,
> since I build systems on the side, a few a year.
> 
> Didn't read this thread yet, but thought I would through this in.
> Just bought and installed 2 Koolance 120mmx 25/107cfm, 26dba rateing, 5.35 static pressure/ 2600 rpm 3 pin.
> I have to say for 12.50 a piece that includes shipping, I,m very impressed with them and will be trying more
> koolance fans. Sound/cooling/ build is very good.Nice long wires too.
> 
> Now will go back to reading this whole thread!!


Welcome. Manufacturer's specifications aren't always accurate. Even if they are, everyone test their own fans in different ways so you can't really compare them with one another. That's why I started this thread in order to test everything in the exact same way.


----------



## fishhawk

I understand exactly what you are saying, I have dozens upon dozens of fans and compare them all in all my systems. Specs are almost never were they say. I was only comenting that I,m pretty impressed with theses koolance fans so far, they perform very well and are pretty quiet for the specs and what you get.


----------



## thrasherv3

Great thread


----------



## rows

Yo Cyclops, did you also test the be quiet fans? There really nice and much better than noiseblocker in my opinion. But fro what I understand Hard to get in US and Canada?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> Yo Cyclops, did you also test the be quiet fans? There really nice and much better than noiseblocker in my opinion. But fro what I understand Hard to get in US and Canada?


Which fan(s) are you exactly referring to?


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #59 - XSPC Xinruilian 1650 RDL1225S:





The 1650 RPM version of Xinruilian looks identical to the 1200 RPM version apart from the sticker on the hub. As you can expect, it's faster and moves more air which also makes it louder. The efficiency is still pretty decent though.


----------



## rows

The Be Quiet Silent wings 2

http://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/260


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> The Be Quiet Silent wings 2
> 
> http://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/260


I haven't got a pair so I haven't tested them yet.


----------



## Cyclops

I've been really busy lately. I'm looking for a local OCN'er that can come over and help me test out some of the remaining fans that I have lying around and possibly with other future projects. Anyone around the North York area that's interested?


----------



## Sashimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've been really busy lately. I'm looking for a local OCN'er that can come over and help me test out some of the remaining fans that I have lying around and possibly with other future projects. Anyone around the North York area that's interested?


If I live near you I would gladly help. except I don't


----------



## Stay Puft

Dude SO SO SO much data to look through. Is there a clear price/performance push/pull winner out of them all?


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Dude SO SO SO much data to look through. Is there a clear price/performance push/pull winner out of them all?


The amount of terrible things I want to say to you is tripling every second.
Read the first post for updates.
Everyone's needs are different.
If you want "the best of the best" go read cnet reviews or something.

Now I need to stop and have a lie down. People these days...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munk*
> 
> The amount of terrible things I want to say to you is tripling every second.
> Read the first post for updates.
> Everyone's needs are different.
> If you want "the best of the best" go read cnet reviews or something.
> 
> Now I need to stop and have a lie down. People these days...


Indeed.








"Stay Puft,s Best Fan"


Will out-blow any normal computer fan.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munk*
> 
> The amount of terrible things I want to say to you is tripling every second.
> Read the first post for updates.
> Everyone's needs are different.
> If you want "the best of the best" go read cnet reviews or something.
> 
> Now I need to stop and have a lie down. People these days...


I was so tired when I wrote that last night.







looking forward at going through all the data in the first post


----------



## Atomed

super bench/guide guys!!!good job!!!!


----------



## ladcrooks

nice to see Noctua fans being one of the best









cos i got the heat sink i dont have to think about better fans


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #60 - XSPC Xinruilian 2000 RPM RDL1225S:





The final 120mm Xinruilian fan in the line up. The 2000 RPM version boasts some excellent thermal performance at the expense of noise output. If you don't care about that or simply want the best performer of the three, this one is the no brainer option.


----------



## Cyclops

Overall comparison results will be updated soon (Post #1).


----------



## WarDad

You guys are ignoring the window box fan. A very effective cost basis. Just add duct work and filter.


----------



## Faded

that... is hilarious.


----------



## Pip Boy

haha


----------



## Cyclops

120mm results have been updated (Post #1). 60 fans are now included.


----------



## Solick

Very nice Cyclops, this has answered so many questions and put all the information into 1 place which saves a lot of headache when researching my build! Appreciate the time and effort it takes to do something like this! Also was wondering if there was any updates and possibly anything for larger fans?

Again, awesome in depth benchmarks!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solick*
> 
> Very nice Cyclops, this has answered so many questions and put all the information into 1 place which saves a lot of headache when researching my build! Appreciate the time and effort it takes to do something like this! Also was wondering if there was any updates and possibly anything for larger fans?
> 
> Again, awesome in depth benchmarks!


Thank you. The project is kind of suspended right now as I've lost quite a lot of momentum.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thank you. The project is kind of suspended right now as I've lost quite a lot of momentum.


Why the lose in momentum?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Why the lose in momentum?


Just lost interest a bit. I was looking for some local help to lend me a hand with testing but I couldn't find anyone.


----------



## RX7-2nr

I see you finally tested the Cooler Master Sickleflow. I bought a bunch of these fans locally for something like $4 after rebate, terminated the blue LEDs, and have been using them for around a year now. Push/Pull on my H60 as well as the intakes on the front of the case. Ive always thought they did a pretty good job even though most people love to hate on CM's fans. Your test puts them less than half a degree away from the Corsair AF120, SP120, and GT AP15.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> I see you finally tested the Cooler Master Sickleflow. I bought a bunch of these fans locally for something like $4 after rebate, terminated the blue LEDs, and have been using them for around a year now. Push/Pull on my H60 as well as the intakes on the front of the case. Ive always thought they did a pretty good job even though most people love to hate on CM's fans. Your test puts them less than half a degree away from the Corsair AF120, SP120, and GT AP15.


I'm kind of shocked to see the Sickleflow performed as well as it did. Mine was much louder than the AP-15 and had an awful whine to it. Running it at reduced voltage resulted in even louder buzzing and clicking, easily making it the loudest component in my case. Lubricating it did not help.


----------



## RX7-2nr

Mine buzzed very badly with the NZXT sentry 2 controller. It was completely unbeatable so I returned it. I have no buzzing with the scythe fan controller in using now.

They are certainly louder than other competition. I keep mine turned down to about 1000-1100 rpm unless I'm gaming.

ehume had the sickleflow perform similarly in his "well dressed megahalems" comparison.


----------



## nleksan

I wish I was local, I'd love to help with this :/


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> I wish I was local, I'd love to help with this :/


I wonder if there is a way to setup a second test station and use a couple reference fans to verify / sync them with a conversion to correct them so you could test other fans?


----------



## Cyclops

The setup I have is way too specific and so are the settings. It can be replicated but I don't want anyone to go through with that and spend a butt load of money.

It's best if I can find a local OCN'er in Toronto.

You never know, keep encouraging me and I might kick start it again







.


----------



## doyll

Was just a thought.
You've done a very nice job and have a nice list going. Makes a very nice collection for comparing fans. Too many of the fan comparisons either don't do a good job of it or don't have a complete enough list. Yours does.


----------



## lagittaja

What's your thoughts on the blade geometry of Silverstone Suscool 121 vs Silenx Effizio Thermistor 120mm?
The Suscool 121 has the same blades as the FN121-P and AP122 you have reviewed. The Silenx obviously has the same blades as the EFX-12-12.

The fan would be used as an exhaust fan in the front of my case. Path for the airflow isn't as restrictive as heatsinks or radiators are but not free from obstruction exactly..
The air exits through the front mask, from the sides which is slotted. The slots roughly measure 3x10mm. Judging from the rpm readings the current front fan has to work a little bit more to push the air compared to the rear fan, same model, that has to pull the air through a fan filter.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> What's your thoughts on the blade geometry of Silverstone Suscool 121 vs Silenx Effizio Thermistor 120mm?
> The Suscool 121 has the same blades as the FN121-P and AP122 you have reviewed. The Silenx obviously has the same blades as the EFX-12-12.
> 
> The fan would be used as an exhaust fan in the front of my case. Path for the airflow isn't as restrictive as heatsinks or radiators are but not free from obstruction exactly..
> The air exits through the front mask, from the sides which is slotted. The slots roughly measure 3x10mm. Judging from the rpm readings the current front fan has to work a little bit more to push the air compared to the rear fan, same model, that has to pull the air through a fan filter.


The 121s have never disappointed me so they would be my pick. AP fans use the exact same blade design as the 121s.


----------



## lagittaja

Yeah, might as well order the Suscool 121 and give it a whirl. Thanks









Otherwise I love my motherboard but it's fan control is a bit limited unfortunately. Gonna see if this TC fan would work in my usage scenario. Which would be to exhaust heat obviously, which is expelled into the case by my GPU. Quite a lot actually.
I've got it cooled by a Antec 620 and since I'm a lazy person I use fan filters and the fan on the Antec 620 is setup as intake. So lots and lots of hot air, at idle the temperature of the air that gets in is just above 30*C and when running Heaven I saw the air temperature getting almost to 55*C. Damn









I grabbed my multimeter with it's temperature probe and the Suscool 121's 30-60*C range is pretty much perfect so I can position the fan's temperature probe just infront of the radiator.


----------



## Volvoxpl

Is there an option to post fan results in some spreadsheet or or XML form? Reading from images when there is so many of them its really hard. Would be nice to get raw data and put them to some graph and visually see which are best.
PS. Maybe add some recommendations for people who don't like reading all this results?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Volvoxpl*
> 
> Is there an option to post fan results in some spreadsheet or or XML form? Reading from images when there is so many of them its really hard. Would be nice to get raw data and put them to some graph and visually see which are best.
> PS. Maybe add some recommendations for people who don't like reading all this results?


A bit late to the game. I've suspended the project for the time being.

PS: Fans with highest noise to performance ratings are the ones I recommend. Take your pick from the top 10.


----------



## tlgriffith

Dear cyclops,

How would you integrate this review from tomshardware.com into your cooling roundup?

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/331629-28-cooling-roundup-2012

Do you agree with this author's findings? Have you updated your cooling results with new fans within the last year?

Based on the tomshardware review I thought about going with the cooljag everflow 120mm/140mm fans or the enermax TB vegas duo/trio's if I wanted the blue LED option. Additionally, the 200mm cooler master megaflow (blue LED) since its the best/most rated on Newegg, but that isn't always the best information to base a decision on

Should I reconsider and why?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tlgriffith*
> 
> Dear cyclops,
> 
> How would you integrate this review from tomshardware.com into your cooling roundup?
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/331629-28-cooling-roundup-2012
> 
> Do you agree with this author's findings? Have you updated your cooling results with new fans within the last year?
> 
> Based on the tomshardware review I thought about going with the cooljag everflow 120mm/140mm fans or the enermax TB vegas duo/trio's if I wanted the blue LED option. Additionally, the 200mm cooler master megaflow (blue LED) since its the best/most rated on Newegg, but that isn't always the best information to base a decision on
> 
> Should I reconsider and why?


It all depends on what you need, whether or not you prefer quietness over airflow or vice versa, is something you have to decide on your own.

If you want to have the perfect balance between the two, then look at the Noise to Temperature Rating charts. The lower the value, the more efficient the product is at moving air without making excessive noise.

If that's not your thing and you want maximum performance then look at the Temperature charts. The ones on the top are very effective at cooling, but they are obviously very loud.

I didn't look at all the charts on Tomshardware's review, but they seem to be in line with what I've tested. From the results though, one thing is for sure. Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans are absolutely terrible, specially the 120mm version.

I haven't tested anything new recently, mainly due to lack of support from the community.


----------



## tlgriffith

Dear Cyclops,

Perhaps you could clarify your charts for me. When looking at the Noise vs. Temperature ratio, Which is your Y and which is your X, what are your units?. You make this statement,
Quote:


> Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans are absolutely terrible, specially the 120mm version.


In the *Push/Pul*l chart the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans have a "low value", however when looking at the *Push* and *Pull* charts separately the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans have "high values". Which makes me question your next statement.
Quote:


> If you want to have the perfect balance between the two, then look at the Noise to Temperature Rating charts. The lower the value, the more efficient the product is at moving air without making excessive noise.


Should I really be looking at the "low values" or the "high values"? Does your chart(s) coincide with your opinion that the Bitfenix Spectre 120's are absolutely terrible and if not, any idea why?

I see you wrote a brief detailed section on the system setup you used and tested. Can you elaborate (i.e. the author from the tomshardware link had a materials/method section for noise testing) on how you measured noise levels other than what you initially wrote?
Quote:


> I have a variety of tools (Multi-meters, Decibel-meters, etc) available. I will test each of them and determine which one is the most accurate to be used in my tests.


Thanks


----------



## Cyclops

There are no X and Y columns. Each chart represents a single value. They are Temperature, Noise, and Noise to Temperature rating.

Noise to temp rating = temperature + noise / 10. It's a simple way of showing which fan can cool better and stay quieter. If you don't understand that, just know that the lower values = better airflow optimized fans.

I tested fans in 3 different scenarios. Push, Pull, and Push/Pull. Simply figure out where you will be placing a fan inside your case or on your heatsink and then pick and choose the fans that are best suited to the role according do my charts.

i.e. You want a fan as an exhaust in your case then look at push results for your best options. You want a fan as an intake in your case then look at pull results for your best options.

Low values are better in every single chart.

All the testing was done on a single tower heatsink.


----------



## tlgriffith

Thankyou

Perhaps you could answer how you measured the noise level? Or at least what distance away from the test rig you measured noise levels in dB.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Cyclops, if you don't mind answering, what would be you choice for a radiator fan between the Yate Loon D12SM-12 and the XSPC Xinruilian 1650 RDL1225S? In your opinion, it worth buying the XPSC instead of the Yate, remembering the Yate is $3.95 and the XSPC is $6.95?


----------



## Cyclops

I'd go with the Yates. They are cheaper and move the same amount of air while being quieter so it's a win win win.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'd go with the Yates. They are cheaper and move the same amount of air while being quieter so it's a win win win.


I appreciate your feed back, thank you!


----------



## RyuBlade94

Hi! I need a set of 3 fans to mount in my case, an antec 1100, as intake fans. Which fans would you recommend me, for around 15$ each? I need the fans to be quiet, but they also have to move a good amount of air, to cool down my GPUs.I was thinking about the Arctic F12 or Bitfenix spectre, but if you can give me advices, i'd appreciate that! Thanks a lot!


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuBlade94*
> 
> Hi! I need a set of 3 fans to mount in my case, an antec 1100, as intake fans. Which fans would you recommend me, for around 15$ each? I need the fans to be quiet, but they also have to move a good amount of air, to cool down my GPUs.I was thinking about the Arctic F12 or Bitfenix spectre, but if you can give me advices, i'd appreciate that! Thanks a lot!


Have you read the graph...? The arctic F12 PWM CO is a good option, the spectre sucks.


----------



## RyuBlade94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloppy007*
> 
> Have you read the graph...? The arctic F12 PWM CO is a good option, the spectre sucks.


Yes, i saw it, but i thought it was good because of the temp to noise graph. Anyway, what about the non CO version of the fan?


----------



## Chunin

Ive got 6 Arctic F12 non PWM fans and for the price i got them for - 5 usd each - i believe there are no better fans. They are really quiet at under 1000 rpm. The only con is that had i known beforehand i wouldnt use them horizontally because at low speeds they produce barely noticable clicking noise which isnt an issue when you are doing something with sound on but when the room is silent you can notice and be bothered by it after a while. At full speed they turn into jet engines though.


----------



## RyuBlade94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunin*
> 
> Ive got 6 Arctic F12 non PWM fans and for the price i got them for - 5 usd each - i believe there are no better fans. They are really quiet at under 1000 rpm. The only con is that had i known beforehand i wouldnt use them horizontally because at low speeds they produce barely noticable clicking noise which isnt an issue when you are doing something with sound on but when the room is silent you can notice and be bothered by it after a while. At full speed they turn into jet engines though.


So, if i use them as intake fans, at 1300RPM they are really loud? What about the airflow? Is it good?
Also, what about the slip stream 1200rpm fan?


----------



## Chunin

You cant really run them at 1300 rpm unless you are using a headset, they are too loud at full speed.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuBlade94*
> 
> So, if i use them as intake fans, at 1300RPM they are really loud? What about the airflow? Is it good?
> Also, what about the slip stream 1200rpm fan?


I recommend FN121-P from Silverstone.


----------



## RyuBlade94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I recommend FN121-P from Silverstone.


Thanks a lot for the answer! Unluckily where i live there are only the led version of the fan, but i need a fan without leds :/ Which would be your second pick? (btw i'm probably going to connect the fans to a fan controller) Thanks again!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuBlade94*
> 
> Thanks a lot for the answer! Unluckily where i live there are only the led version of the fan, but i need a fan without leds :/ Which would be your second pick? (btw i'm probably going to connect the fans to a fan controller) Thanks again!


Zalman ZM-F3 with LNAs, F12 PWM, or XSPC Xinruilian 1200.


----------



## RyuBlade94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Zalman ZM-F3 with LNAs, F12 PWM, or XSPC Xinruilian 1200.


All right, thanks a lot! I'll go with the F12 PWM or the Zalman fans. Thanks again


----------



## juneau78

subbed


----------



## Wezzor

Would you guys recommend static pressure fan or just airflow fan as intake? I wouldn't say that I have any HDD cages blocking anything either. Noctua NF-S12A or NF-F12 are the fans I'm thinking about purchasing.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wezzor*
> 
> Would you guys recommend static pressure fan or just airflow fan as intake? I wouldn't say that I have any HDD cages blocking anything either. Noctua NF-S12A or NF-F12 are the fans I'm thinking about purchasing.


As an intake fan for a case you really don't need static pressure that much, it comes in handy for radiators and heat sinks. Any fan with decent CFM should do, I think between the 2 the NF-F12 is the better one. Seriously though for intake fans, I think a focused airflow like the silverstone AP series is perfect.


----------



## doyll

Best PWM slim 120mm fan

Trying to find some for RVZ01 case. There is only 25-30mm clearance between CPU / GPU and case vent. so trying to figure out what fans would be best. Want PWM fans so their speed can change to match airflow demand of CPU / GPU coolers.

Thanks


----------



## smithydan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Best PWM slim 120mm fan
> 
> Trying to find some for RVZ01 case. There is only 25-30mm clearance between CPU / GPU and case vent. so trying to figure out what fans would be best. Want PWM fans so their speed can change to match airflow demand of CPU / GPU coolers.
> 
> Thanks


you could look at the Prolimatech USV 120s, but they are expensive. The 140s although supposedly low on static pressure do very well on coolers.


----------



## Duality92

I'm looking dearly for more results on 140mms for my 280mm rad. Currently it has the XSPC fans in push and Fractal Design R2s in pull.

I've been wanting to replace them with better static pressure, but I'm having a hard time finding better that's actually worth the upgrade except some yellow Akasas...


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Best PWM slim 120mm fan
> 
> Trying to find some for RVZ01 case. There is only 25-30mm clearance between CPU / GPU and case vent. so trying to figure out what fans would be best. Want PWM fans so their speed can change to match airflow demand of CPU / GPU coolers.
> 
> Thanks


I'd also look int the Gelid Slim 12 PL Blue, I believe they were tested here and it was pretty good.

http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/index.php?lid=1&cid=2&id=84


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smithydan*
> 
> you could look at the Prolimatech USV 120s, but they are expensive. The 140s although supposedly low on static pressure do very well on coolers.


Thanks!
Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 12 looks to be a good fan.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I'd also look int the Gelid Slim 12 PL Blue, I believe they were tested here and it was pretty good.
> 
> http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/index.php?lid=1&cid=2&id=84


Thanks!
Yes, the Gelid Slim 12 PL Blue is being considered.

Scythe Slip Stream 120mm Slim too, but it's not PWM

There is also the Cooler Master XtraFlo 120 Slim. It's PWM but...

Other 120mm slim fans. No idea if they are good or not.
Phobya G-Silent 12 Slim
Yate Loon D12SL-12 (not PWM)
Evercool TFD-12015H12ZP


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Thanks!
> Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 12 looks to be a good fan.
> Thanks!
> Yes, the Gelid Slim 12 PL Blue is being considered.
> 
> Scythe Slip Stream 120mm Slim too, but it's not PWM
> 
> There is also the Cooler Master XtraFlo 120 Slim. It's PWM but...
> 
> Other 120mm slim fans. No idea if they are good or not.
> Phobya G-Silent 12 Slim
> Yate Loon D12SL-12 (not PWM)
> Evercool TFD-12015H12ZP


Phobya is basically Gelid in Europe, so the G-Silent 12 Slim is the same as the Gelid 12 Slim.


----------



## doyll

Thanks Mark.


----------



## Mysterion90

So I just looked at the charts and saw that the bitfenix spectre pro did not do very well. I just bhought 4 of them, 3 200mm and 1 230mm version. I also have a 140mm version already installed.

I think I know why the results are so bad the OP used the 3pin versions of them but there are also 4pin pwm versions which have roughly 50% more rpm (for example the 140mm 3pin version has 1200rpm while 4pin one has 1800rpm)

From what I can say the 140mm is very strong it pushes a ton of air and has a high static pressure. From the specs alone I was not able to find another 140mm fan with better values.
At 120mm the situation is different, we have those Delta which have outstanding performance but are as loud as a starting jet. Scythe has also some neat fans. I'm currently using a Grand Flex 120 PWM 2400rpm which blows directly onto the graphics cards.

Let's compare the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120 PWM with the Corsair SP120 high performance:

Bitfenix:
RPM: 1800
mm H2O: 2,6
CFM: 70,52 +/- 10%
dB(A): 26,1

Corsair:
RPM: 2350
mm H2O: 3,1
CFM: 62,74
dB(A): 35

It's up to you to decide which one is better the Corsair has a slightly higher static pressure but thats it.

As soon as my 230mm version arrives I'll test it again the Coolermaster Megaflow which was preinstalled in my Coolermaster HAF X









So why am I writing all this? Because I don't like how those results make the Bitfenix Spectre Pro Series Look like garbage because they are definetely not the OP did. just not test the best version of them. The PWM is Way superior to the normal version as i already mentioned the PWM versions have roughly 50% higher rpm and thus much better specs.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> So I just looked at the charts and saw that the bitfenix spectre pro did not do very well. I just bhought 4 of them, 3 200mm and 1 230mm version. I also have a 140mm version already installed.
> 
> I think I know why the results are so bad the OP used the 3pin versions of them but there are also 4pin pwm versions which have roughly 50% more rpm (for example the 140mm 3pin version has 1200rpm while 4pin one has 1800rpm)
> 
> From what I can say the 140mm is very strong it pushes a ton of air and has a high static pressure. From the specs alone I was not able to find another 140mm fan with better values.
> At 120mm the situation is different, we have those Delta which have outstanding performance but are as loud as a starting jet. Scythe has also some neat fans. I'm currently using a Grand Flex 120 PWM 2400rpm which blows directly onto the graphics cards.
> 
> Let's compare the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120 PWM with the Corsair SP120 high performance:
> 
> Bitfenix:
> RPM: 1800
> mm H2O: 2,6
> CFM: 70,52 +/- 10%
> dB(A): 26,1
> 
> Corsair:
> RPM: 2350
> mm H2O: 3,1
> CFM: 62,74
> dB(A): 35
> 
> It's up to you to decide which one is better the Corsair has a slightly higher static pressure but thats it.
> 
> As soon as my 230mm version arrives I'll test it again the Coolermaster Megaflow which was preinstalled in my Coolermaster HAF X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why am I writing all this? Because I don't like how those results make the Bitfenix Spectre Pro Series Look like garbage because they are definetely not the OP did. just not test the best version of them. The PWM is Way superior to the normal version as i already mentioned the PWM versions have roughly 50% higher rpm and thus much better specs.


*NEVER* compare fans with the manufacturer's specification. They're never accurate because each vendor tests their own product differently. There is no way in the known universe that a 1800 RPM fan produces 26.1 dB. It's way more, again all depends on the testing setup.

As for Spectre pros, the 120mm is the most horrible version. 140mm isn't as bad, but by no means is it good either. Having a higher RPM version doesn't solve the issue that these fans are flawed in design and are not able to move air efficiently, i.e. without making too much noise.

There are far better options out there that are less expensive and move more air at lower dB levels.

I understand that you felt the need to defend your purchase, but I'm not biased in my reviews. I see no reason why anyone would purchase Spectre Pros other than their looks, because the performance is simply terrible.

Again, never look at manufacturer's specs when comparing fans. Most of the time they are inaccurate, and in case of Spectre Pros, pure garbage. On the other hand, I'm happy to recommend Bitfenix's original Spectre fans, they are quiet and move a decent amount of air, far better than Spectre Pros in all of my testing.


----------



## Mysterion90

I get your points but still, you didn't test the PWM version









They are supposed to be the real "premium version". The thing is: I do believe you because there is no reason you should be lying BUT it all depends on what you are looking for. If you wan't high airflow at low loise you won't have much static pressure (no static pressure without high RPM). But this is exactly what I was looking for because I needed fans that *push* the hot air between the two graphics cards out. So I really looked all over the internets to get the best at noiselevels <40db(A).
If noise had been my primary target I would have had just gone with a Noiseblocker or bequiet! but I'm almost 100% sure those would not help much because they would move cold air to the cards but the air would just get mixed with the hot air and thus not having the desired effect.

And this is how I got to the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 140mm PWM version, it just has the best specs I could find. (Again regarding cfm and especially static pressure)

The 200mm and 230mm don't need to have such a high pressure because two of them will be exhausting hot air on the top and the 230mm will be intaking air on the front, I just went for them because it looks better to have all the same fans. Also the market for >200mm fans is pretty straightforward, the only ones you can choose between are the Coolermaster Megaflow and the Bitfenix. I already have a CM Megaflow and I'm disappointed, it just doesn't feel like it's pulling much air into the case.

So can you show me a 140mm fan which has an equal or better static pressure and equal or higher CFM than the Spectre Pro PWM? I couldn't find one.

One last thing: I know that the manufacters always give their fans the absolute optimal specs which in fact may never be reached in real world scenarios but I don't think they would just come up with some numbers they like. They are always a bit exagerated but that's the case for all manufacters. And if you don't go by the specs how should one decide which fan to buy? Not everybody has the time to read reviews for like 5 hours before spending 20 bucks.


----------



## coelacanth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So I just looked at the charts and saw that the bitfenix spectre pro did not do very well. I just bhought 4 of them, 3 200mm and 1 230mm version. I also have a 140mm version already installed.
> 
> I think I know why the results are so bad the OP used the 3pin versions of them but there are also 4pin pwm versions which have roughly 50% more rpm (for example the 140mm 3pin version has 1200rpm while 4pin one has 1800rpm)
> 
> From what I can say the 140mm is very strong it pushes a ton of air and has a high static pressure. From the specs alone I was not able to find another 140mm fan with better values.
> At 120mm the situation is different, we have those Delta which have outstanding performance but are as loud as a starting jet. Scythe has also some neat fans.
> 
> 
> I'm currently using a Grand Flex 120 PWM 2400rpm which blows directly onto the graphics cards.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Let's compare the Bitfenix Spectre Pro 120 PWM with the Corsair SP120 high performance:
> 
> Bitfenix:
> RPM: 1800
> mm H2O: 2,6
> CFM: 70,52 +/- 10%
> dB(A): 26,1
> 
> Corsair:
> RPM: 2350
> mm H2O: 3,1
> CFM: 62,74
> dB(A): 35
> 
> It's up to you to decide which one is better the Corsair has a slightly higher static pressure but thats it.
> 
> As soon as my 230mm version arrives I'll test it again the Coolermaster Megaflow which was preinstalled in my Coolermaster HAF X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why am I writing all this? Because I don't like how those results make the Bitfenix Spectre Pro Series Look like garbage because they are definetely not the OP did. just not test the best version of them. The PWM is Way superior to the normal version as i already mentioned the PWM versions have roughly 50% higher rpm and thus much better specs.


This is a little OT but it looks like you have 2 GTX 780 Lightnings in SLI? I have 2 GTX 780 Classifieds in SLI. I had a side intake blowing on the cards (140mm Noctua NF-A14 PWM), like you said there is a lot of heat there. I just reversed my side intake to make it a side exhaust and my graphics card temps dropped about 8C. The side exhaust does a great job of evacuating hot air.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> One last thing: I know that the manufacters always give their fans the absolute optimal specs which in fact may never be reached in real world scenarios but I don't think they would just come up with some numbers they like. They are always a bit exagerated but that's the case for all manufacters. And if you don't go by the specs how should one decide which fan to buy? Not everybody has the time to read reviews for like 5 hours before spending 20 bucks.


I disagree. Manufactures / companies are often untruthful. Money is often their driving force, and when there is no standard by which they are held accountable they say what will make them the most money.

The fact that most people do not research and find the truth is a big part of how they get away with lying to us about their products.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I disagree. Manufactures / companies are often untruthful. Money is often their driving force, and when there is no standard by which they are held accountable they say what will make them the most money.
> 
> The fact that most people do not research and find the truth is a big part of how they get away with lying to us about their products.


This is not quite true. Taiwan manufactures are held very accountable to the data they put on the package. They don't have to put it all, but what they put is true.

And, you have heard of the internet? If you print something untrue people will find out and your are done. This goes for product and reviewers. Its hard to outright lie anymore. That does mean people have gotten much more creative


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> [
> This is not quite true. Taiwan manufactures are held very accountable to the data they put on the package. They don't have to put it all, but what they put is true.
> 
> And, you have heard of the internet? If you print something untrue people will find out and your are done. This goes for product and reviewers. Its hard to outright lie anymore. That does mean people have gotten much more creative


You are viewing the world through rose colored glasses.









Example:
ASUS said some of their motherboard 4 pin headers were PWM when they in fact were not. When buyers questioned them ASUS lied to them and said the were PWM when there was now PWM signal at all. Only voltage control. They did not refund customers. They were not charged with a crime. All they did was laugh all the way to the bank.
Another:
Monsanto sues farmers who do not contract to grow their genetically engineered corn by accusing them of using Monsanto seed. How? Simple. The farmers grow and sell corn and keep some of what they grow for seed the next year. Farmer's neighbors are growing Monsanto corn.. which cross pollinates with the non-Monsanto corn so now farmer has some Monsanto DNA in his corn.. so Monsanto sues him for using their modified DNA corn. Farmer has no choice. There is no way he can keep Monsanto corn's pollen from blowing onto his land.
Another:
Asatek patented the concept of closed loop coolers with pump built into heatsink. Swiftech cannot sell their H220 or H320 in USA because of this.
Another
Bolivia tried to lease Bechtel subsidiary International Water Ltd. all water rights.. including rain. The people protested in late 1999 and early 2000 to keep their rights to their own water.

I'll agree to disagree about the honesty of big business.


----------



## KipH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You are viewing the world through rose colored glasses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example:
> ASUS said some of their motherboard 4 pin headers were PWM when they in fact were not. When buyers questioned them ASUS lied to them and said the were PWM when there was now PWM signal at all. Only voltage control. They did not refund customers. They were not charged with a crime. All they did was laugh all the way to the bank.
> Must be in USA. Here in Taiwan they have the proper information on that board. Odd case.
> 
> Another:
> Monsanto sues farmers who do not contract to grow their genetically engineered corn by accusing them of using Monsanto seed. How? Simple. The farmers grow and sell corn and keep some of what they grow for seed the next year. Farmer's neighbors are growing Monsanto corn.. which cross pollinates with the non-Monsanto corn so now farmer has some Monsanto DNA in his corn.. so Monsanto sues him for using their modified DNA corn. Farmer has no choice. There is no way he can keep Monsanto corn's pollen from blowing onto his land.
> This is a simple lie you have fallen for. Hard to explain with out getting into political but: Monsanto has never sued for contamination or accidental use. They do sue to protect their IP. Let me say that again! NEVER SUED DO TO CONTAMINATION, and that was proven in court. And one more lie you have been fed: No farmer saves seeds. Not GMO, regular or organic. Only seed breeders and heirloom seeds breed true today. All hybrid seeds (even organic) are mules and most are male sterile, but they all don't have good offspring and no one used the second generation.
> 
> Another:
> Asatek patented the concept of closed loop coolers with pump built into heatsink. Swiftech cannot sell their H220 or H320 in USA because of this.
> Interesting. But how is that a lie? Bad patent law yes, but a lie?
> 
> Another
> Bolivia tried to lease Bechtel subsidiary International Water Ltd. all water rights.. including rain. The people protested in late 1999 and early 2000 to keep their rights to their own water.
> Many cities around the world had laws that prevented rain water collection, rarely enforced. And they are being changed. Many cities give great deals to corps to get them to go there. Nestle is very bad for that. But they don't lie about it! I don't agree with it, water will cause WWIII, but its out in the open. You heard about it right? That proves my point about the internet.
> 
> I'll agree to disagree about the honesty of big business.


They may try to get away with stuff, but they get caught. And the reputation is becoming more and more important to companies.

Asus and especially ROG is built on reputation. Just look at what happens to a company that gets a bad rep on OCN.

Is this the Mobo you are talking about? You got me interested: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-gigabyte-motherboard,5348.html


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kip69*
> 
> They may try to get away with stuff, but they get caught. And the reputation is becoming more and more important to companies.
> 
> Asus and especially ROG is built on reputation. Just look at what happens to a company that gets a bad rep on OCN.
> 
> Is this the Mobo you are talking about? You got me interested: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-gigabyte-motherboard,5348.html


Sometimes they get caught and than we hear about it. What about all the other times they don't get caught?

Sorry Monsanto sued farmers saving seed for patent infringement..
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/monsanto-victorious-in-genetic-seed-case.html?_r=0

One ASUS motherboard that claimed PWM when CHA fan headers were not was M5A67 R2.0 Manual shows:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1353732/trouble-with-pwm-control-on-chassis-fan-headers-w-pwm-splitter/0_20#post_19144807

Maximus V Extreme
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?23376-Maximus-V-Extreme-PWM-control-Fan-outlets&p=249120#post249120


----------



## Duality92

This isn't my thread, but can we stay on topic?


----------



## Mysterion90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coelacanth*
> 
> This is a little OT but it looks like you have 2 GTX 780 Lightnings in SLI? I have 2 GTX 780 Classifieds in SLI. I had a side intake blowing on the cards (140mm Noctua NF-A14 PWM), like you said there is a lot of heat there. I just reversed my side intake to make it a side exhaust and my graphics card temps dropped about 8C. The side exhaust does a great job of evacuating hot air.


Sry of OT but I have to








Interesting, I tried to reverse the fan to make it exhaust the air but temperatures actually went up by about ~5°C

In order to get better temps I had to mount a 200mm fan and a Scythe Grand Flex 2400rpm directly on to the 200mm fan on the side. Now my temps are in check and I'm ready for 30°C+ ambient temps lol


----------



## Sparkron

Hey guys, I hate to ask a question about what to buy in a thread like this when there is all the data here, but I'm honestly lost. i've been looking over this for 2 days and I simply have no idea.

I'm after fans for my radiators. I'm getting two 480 rads (one 80mm thick and one 45mm thick) both running in push pull. I'm after the best fan, taking into account both noice and cooling (ie. I dont want a silent fan if it's not going to cool anything, I want the most efficient fan that is still quiet). So for rads, I'm after fans with high static flow yeah?

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be fantastic!

Cheers guys


----------



## Cyclops

Go for silverstone FM-121 1200 RPM versions or Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1450 RPM if you can find any of those.


----------



## Sparkron

There seems to only be 2400RPM FM ones. There are 1200 FN ones though, did you mean those?
Something like this? http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_1138&products_id=25676

Or the 2400RPM FM model like this?
http://www.i-tech.com.au/products/161726_SilverStone_120mm_FM_Series_121_2400RPM.aspx

Thanks for the advice! =)


----------



## Cyclops

Any FM121 would do. The design is the same. Go for 1200-1500 RPM range. Alternatively, if you've got more money, try Noctua NF-P12s.


----------



## Sparkron

So just keep then in that RPM range via a controller.

So in your eyes the Noctua would be the best possible fan for rad cooling, in terms of a balance between cooling and noise?
These guys?
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_510&products_id=6223


----------



## Cyclops

Or just find a model that has a 1200-1500 range/ceiling.

P12s move less air than FM121s but are much much quieter so it's up to you.


----------



## Sparkron

Ahh I hate decisions! haha.

Hmm, I can't find any 1200 rpm models of the FM121, and I certainly do like a quiet case. I would be more inclined to install more fans to keep it quiet, so that leans me towards the Noctuas.

What about something like this?
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_510&products_id=19937


----------



## Cyclops

Where do you live? Are you using that site just for reference? Because those prices are too high. That fan while decent, has problems when installed horizontally as the bearings aren't well designed.

I just looked up and realized I told you to get FM121s. My apologies, I mean't FN121. Plenty of those around like these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220054


----------



## Sparkron

Ah that makes my life much easier. Yeah can get my hands on FN121s =)

I live in Australia, so our prices for pc gear is significantly higher. The one I linked is unfortunately, correct. I can order over from the US but I don't want to wait a month, and it poses another problem if any of the parts were defective.

Thanks so much Cyclops, you've been a huge help!


----------



## Cyclops

Good luck







.


----------



## Tropicocity

Hi Cyclops,

First off, a HUUUUGE thankyou for conducting all these tests! I can see it's taken you literally 100s of hours to compile and compare everything here, as well as probably a huge amount of cash.

Just recently received my new NZXT H440 case, which comes with 3x120mm front intake and 1x140mm rear exhaust fans, all of which are their new FN v2 range fans.

Bought this case on the idea of having a near-silent system as although not loud by any standards, my old CM Storm Sniper case which came with 3x200mm fans and 1x120mm exhaust..was actually QUIETER than my H440 is, and that case was mesh all around!

The included fan hub in the H440 does not support PWM nor a fan controller attachment - could you recommend some replacement fans that operate at low speed by default?

The front 3 fans can be swapped out for 2x140mm fans I believe, as long as they come with 120mm mounts.

Thankyou!


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tropicocity*
> 
> Hi Cyclops,
> 
> First off, a HUUUUGE thankyou for conducting all these tests! I can see it's taken you literally 100s of hours to compile and compare everything here, as well as probably a huge amount of cash.
> 
> Just recently received my new NZXT H440 case, which comes with 3x120mm front intake and 1x140mm rear exhaust fans, all of which are their new FN v2 range fans.
> 
> Bought this case on the idea of having a near-silent system as although not loud by any standards, my old CM Storm Sniper case which came with 3x200mm fans and 1x120mm exhaust..was actually QUIETER than my H440 is, and that case was mesh all around!
> 
> The included fan hub in the H440 does not support PWM nor a fan controller attachment - could you recommend some replacement fans that operate at low speed by default?
> 
> The front 3 fans can be swapped out for 2x140mm fans I believe, as long as they come with 120mm mounts.
> 
> Thankyou!


You could just run the fans at 5v or 7v, and save some cash


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tropicocity*
> 
> Hi Cyclops,
> 
> First off, a HUUUUGE thankyou for conducting all these tests! I can see it's taken you literally 100s of hours to compile and compare everything here, as well as probably a huge amount of cash.
> 
> Just recently received my new NZXT H440 case, which comes with 3x120mm front intake and 1x140mm rear exhaust fans, all of which are their new FN v2 range fans.
> 
> Bought this case on the idea of having a near-silent system as although not loud by any standards, my old CM Storm Sniper case which came with 3x200mm fans and 1x120mm exhaust..was actually QUIETER than my H440 is, and that case was mesh all around!
> 
> The included fan hub in the H440 does not support PWM nor a fan controller attachment - could you recommend some replacement fans that operate at low speed by default?
> 
> The front 3 fans can be swapped out for 2x140mm fans I believe, as long as they come with 120mm mounts.
> 
> Thankyou!


Thanks you







.

If you've got the budget, try Noctua NF-P12. One of the top fans I've ever tested.


----------



## RabidSnail

First, I want to say I really appreciate your efforts to put together this guide! Pretty solid and has helped me out a lot so far!

Second, please forgive me for not wanting to look through this entire 72 pages of the thread, but is there any opinions on 200mm fans? I'm looking to get ONE to set in a PUSH configuration...


----------



## Failuyr

For the 120mm fan tests, I only saw two fans go below 8 for the noise to temperature rating -- Noctua NF-P12 and Zalman ZM-F3. I never expected those Zalmans to get that good of a rating. I'm pleasantly surprised







. There were a ton of fans that got really close to being under a score of 8, but the Apevia CF12S got really close (8.055) which was also a pleasant surprise.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RabidSnail*
> 
> First, I want to say I really appreciate your efforts to put together this guide! Pretty solid and has helped me out a lot so far!
> 
> Second, please forgive me for not wanting to look through this entire 72 pages of the thread, but is there any opinions on 200mm fans? I'm looking to get ONE to set in a PUSH configuration...


Thanks. I haven't tested any 200mm fans mainly because there aren't any 200mm heatsinks apart from that big stupid thing, Susanoo it think it was called.

Any who, Cooler master makes some really good 200mm fans. Stay away from Bitfenix Spectre Pro models, they're not good and are basically a scaled up version of their 120mm part
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> For the 120mm fan tests, I only saw two fans go below 8 for the noise to temperature rating -- Noctua NF-P12 and Zalman ZM-F3. I never expected those Zalmans to get that good of a rating. I'm pleasantly surprised
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . There were a ton of fans that got really close to being under a score of 8, but the Apevia CF12S got really close (8.055) which was also a pleasant surprise.


Yeah it's really rare to see a fan duck under 8. It has to be mighty efficient. Testament to the design of most Noctua fans and that particular Zalman fan.


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah it's really rare to see a fan duck under 8. It has to be mighty efficient. Testament to the design of most Noctua fans and that particular Zalman fan.


I'm sure it's been requested (and it might be in the works-- sorry if it has been / is) but are you planning on doing this test with 120mm Swiftech Helix fans?


----------



## Cyclops

I haven't done any new fans in about a year, mainly because I lost steam and that I felt like that my work went a bit underappreciated by the community so here we are.


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I haven't done any new fans in about a year, mainly because I lost steam and that I felt like that my work went a bit underappreciated by the community so here we are.


Oh wow I didn't even realize you weren't doing fans anymore.

I'm sorry that you felt that your work was under appreciated, but just know there are people who do appreciate what you did before you lost steam. Thanks for all of the hard work you did!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I haven't done any new fans in about a year, mainly because I lost steam and that I felt like that my work went a bit underappreciated by the community so here we are.


I appreciate your testing a lot. Very well done.


----------



## Tropicocity

I can't for the life of me find an adaptor for 12v > 7v/5v that will literally just change 12v molex output into a lower amount... the fan hub that my H440 has is just an all 3-pin male connectors with no way of adding in a fan controller :/


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> Oh wow I didn't even realize you weren't doing fans anymore.
> 
> I'm sorry that you felt that your work was under appreciated, but just know there are people who do appreciate what you did before you lost steam. Thanks for all of the hard work you did!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I appreciate your testing a lot. Very well done.


Thank you







.

I still have the testing rig and dozens and dozens of untested fans. I just gotta get in the groove again and kick start the whole thing.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tropicocity*
> 
> I can't for the life of me find an adaptor for 12v > 7v/5v that will literally just change 12v molex output into a lower amount... the fan hub that my H440 has is just an all 3-pin male connectors with no way of adding in a fan controller :/


You can make you own molex connector that can supply 5 or 7 volts to the fans.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I appreciate your testing a lot. Very well done.


Me too!


----------



## Mysterion90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks. I haven't tested any 200mm fans mainly because there aren't any 200mm heatsinks apart from that big stupid thing, Susanoo it think it was called.
> 
> *Any who, Cooler master makes some really good 200mm fans. Stay away from Bitfenix Spectre Pro models, they're not good and are basically a scaled up version of their 120mm part*
> Yeah it's really rare to see a fan duck under 8. It has to be mighty efficient. Testament to the design of most Noctua fans and that particular Zalman fan.


Thats simply not true. I have both, the Coolermaster Mega Flow and the Bitfenix Spectre Pro here. The Coolermaster moves significantly less air than the Bitfenix. It is a bit more silent though but I guess this is due to the 700rpm vs the 900rpm from the Spectre. Very dissapointed by the Megaflow, the 230mm is no different, same situation.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> Thats simply not true. I have both, the Coolermaster Mega Flow and the Bitfenix Spectre Pro here. The Coolermaster moves significantly less air than the Bitfenix. *It is a bit more silent* though but I guess this is due to the 700rpm vs the 900rpm from the Spectre. Very dissapointed by the Megaflow, the 230mm is no different, same situation.


Silent implies no noise at all. What you mean is quiet, so you think that the CM is quieter than Bitfenix

So how did you prove that the CM fan moved less air? What device did you use?

The Bitfenix fans (the red squares in the graphs below) are some of the worst fans on the market in my opinion, and judging by these graphs below it kinda shows that.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Yes the bitfenix can be quiet but it moves nearly no air doing so, and the tests done by Cyclops show that as well, Bitfenix''s old fans are better than the pros but they had reliability issues.

Cyclops, your thread has 71,000 views, so I would think your work was worth it. But I do understand if you do not want to do it. Testing fans is tedious, time consuming and difficult to get right.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Cyclops, your thread has 71,000 views, so I would think your work was worth it. But I do understand if you do not want to do it. Testing fans is tedious, time consuming and difficult to get right.


Thanks. Yes it is tedius work. Most of the time I had to wait till midnight to test them for noise as I wanted the environment to be absolutely quiet. I'm trying to get the wheels turning again so I might start doing more reviews soon







.


----------



## Queso802

Just wanted to extend a big THANK YOU for this thread, Cyclops. Helped me out a ton and I cannot even imagine all the time and effort you put into this. Thanks again!


----------



## doyll

We often read and learn from someone else and don't even think of saying thanks of giving them rep for their fine work. I'm bade at this myself.

Cyclops has a rep count of 232 with 179 of those having notes attached. With a post count of 2731 that is very good, but this thread alone should have generated at least twice that many reps.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

@Cyclops +Rep, pretty nice (and painful, I guess) job, very good data. Let me ask you something, I know I'm not at the watercooling forum section, but that *System #1 - 120 mm Test Rig*'s heat sink is a bit dense by looking it on the pictures. So do you think your tests can be followed for low FPI radiator use? I really liked what I saw about these,not to say their very low price tag. I will control or PWM them.

Arctic Cooling F12 PWM (6-year warranty and PWM







)

Yate Loon D12SM-12 or maybe the High speed version (costs less than $4 with the same performance of the above)

XSPC Xinruilian (very close to yates)

SilverStone FN121-P (silent)

SilverStone AP122 (silent)


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Queso802*
> 
> Just wanted to extend a big THANK YOU for this thread, Cyclops. Helped me out a ton and I cannot even imagine all the time and effort you put into this. Thanks again!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> We often read and learn from someone else and don't even think of saying thanks of giving them rep for their fine work. I'm bade at this myself.
> 
> Cyclops has a rep count of 232 with 179 of those having notes attached. With a post count of 2731 that is very good, but this thread alone should have generated at least twice that many reps.


Thank you guys. That means alot to me







.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> @Cyclops +Rep, pretty nice (and painful, I guess) job, very good data. Let me ask you something, I know I'm not at the watercooling forum section, but that *System #1 - 120 mm Test Rig*'s heat sink is a bit dense by looking it on the pictures. So do you think your tests can be followed for low FPI radiator use? I really liked what I saw about these,not to say their very low price tag. I will control or PWM them.
> 
> Arctic Cooling F12 PWM (6-year warranty and PWM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Yate Loon D12SM-12 or maybe the High speed version (costs less than $4 with the same performance of the above)
> 
> XSPC Xinruilian (very close to yates)
> 
> SilverStone FN121-P (silent)
> 
> SilverStone AP122 (silent)


Thanks. The heatsink I used has 2mm gap between each layer of fins and that's very typical of tower heatsinks. I wouldn't consider it dense. As for watercooling, it would be way too much work to test every single fan on a radiator so I don't see that happening any time soon.


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks. Yes it is tedius work. Most of the time I had to wait till midnight to test them for noise as I wanted the environment to be absolutely quiet. I'm trying to get the wheels turning again so I might start doing more reviews soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Have you ever thought about sending in your data to a site like anand? If you email them and send them this thread, you might be able to get picked up and make some money on the side.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> Have you ever thought about sending in your data to a site like anand? If you email them and send them this thread, you might be able to get picked up and make some money on the side.


I have tried before, not necessarily Anandtech, but it didn't seem to get any attention so I kind of gave up on that idea.


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Bezerra*
> 
> @Cyclops +Rep, pretty nice (and painful, I guess) job, very good data. Let me ask you something, I know I'm not at the watercooling forum section, but that *System #1 - 120 mm Test Rig*'s heat sink is a bit dense by looking it on the pictures. So do you think your tests can be followed for low FPI radiator use? I really liked what I saw about these,not to say their very low price tag. I will control or PWM them.
> 
> Arctic Cooling F12 PWM (6-year warranty and PWM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Yate Loon D12SM-12 or maybe the High speed version (costs less than $4 with the same performance of the above)
> 
> XSPC Xinruilian (very close to yates)
> 
> SilverStone FN121-P (silent)
> 
> SilverStone AP122 (silent)


Gonna answer this and reiterate what Cyclops has already suggested as well. The Yate Loon D12SM-12 and Silverstone FN121 are going to be great choices. If you absolutely must have PWN then the A-Cooling F12 is fine, but the 6 year warranty is pretty meaningless so don't let that influence your choice. My vote is the D12SM-12, I have the Nexus rebrand's and they are fantastic for CFM/noise from my personal tests (D12SM at 12V is quieter than the Zalman F3's reduced to 7V).


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thank you guys. That means alot to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


+REP to you sir. The literal weeks in time I've spent working through graphs online for fans have for the most part matched your results and the results of other "known" testers like MartinsLabs.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Munk*
> 
> Gonna answer this and reiterate what Cyclops has already suggested as well. The Yate Loon D12SM-12 and Silverstone FN121 are going to be great choices. If you absolutely must have PWN then the A-Cooling F12 is fine, but the 6 year warranty is pretty meaningless so don't let that influence your choice. My vote is the D12SM-12, I have the Nexus rebrand's and they are fantastic for CFM/noise from my personal tests (D12SM at 12V is quieter than the Zalman F3's reduced to 7V).


Okay, I'll go with the Yates or F12 (if PWMing). Thanks for the good answer and comparison!


----------



## Owneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thanks. Yes it is tedius work. Most of the time I had to wait till midnight to test them for noise as I wanted the environment to be absolutely quiet. I'm trying to get the wheels turning again so I might start doing more reviews soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Simple as this, get a sound dampening room. You can build these very easily with the foam inserts you apply to the walls. Don't forget floors and ceilings also.

OR...

Get a test bed case (The external ones used on review sites) and make a sound dampening box for covering it. Insert meters and done.







Don't forget the bottom part being insulated from noise.

Then waiting for others won't be such an issue.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Owneth*
> 
> Simple as this, get a sound dampening room. You can build these very easily with the foam inserts you apply to the walls. Don't forget floors and ceilings also.
> 
> OR...
> 
> Get a test bed case (The external ones used on review sites) and make a sound dampening box for covering it. Insert meters and done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the bottom part being insulated from noise.
> 
> Then waiting for others won't be such an issue.


Not as simple as that really, SPCR did an article explaining their problems creating one, you would be sacrificing a room in your house for one use too.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Not as simple as that really, SPCR did an article explaining their problems creating one, you would be sacrificing a room in your house for one use too.


Perhaps that's only an issue for us, Europeans


----------



## Mysterion90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Silent implies no noise at all. What you mean is quiet, so you think that the CM is quieter than Bitfenix
> 
> So how did you prove that the CM fan moved less air? What device did you use?


I did not test it with any device because I don't have one. What I did is I tested it with the "hand test" and I cut a paper into pieces and threw it in the airflow of both fans. I know it is not scientifically but trust me if you have both fans running side by side you can feel more air coming from the Bitfenix. This is due to the 900rpm vs the 700rpm from the Coolermaster.

I also did a temperature test with both fans mounted on the side panel blowing air onto the graphics cards and 30 min Valley loop. The result:

Coolermaster: GPU1 77°C
GPU2 59°C
Bitfenix: GPU1 75°C
GPU2 58°C

So it is only a small difference but it is there.

I'm not the Bitfenix fans are the best on the market in any means. But they are good if you're looking for high performance at moderate noise. I can only repeat myself the 140mm and 200mm versions were the strongest I could find on the paper. They also had the highest rpm I could find and thus a pretty good static pressure which is what I was looking for.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> I did not test it with any device because I don't have one. What I did is I tested it with the "hand test" and I cut a paper into pieces and threw it in the airflow of both fans. I know it is not scientifically but trust me if you have both fans running side by side you can feel more air coming from the Bitfenix. This is due to the 900rpm vs the 700rpm from the Coolermaster.
> 
> I also did a temperature test with both fans mounted on the side panel blowing air onto the graphics cards and 30 min Valley loop. The result:
> 
> Coolermaster: GPU1 77°C
> GPU2 59°C
> Bitfenix: GPU1 75°C
> GPU2 58°C
> 
> So it is only a small difference but it is there.
> 
> I'm not the Bitfenix fans are the best on the market in any means. But they are good if you're looking for high performance at moderate noise. I can only repeat myself the 140mm and 200mm versions were the strongest I could find on the paper. They also had the *highest rpm I could find* and thus a pretty good static pressure which is what I was looking for.


Think we have a troll here or someone is really deluded.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Think we have a troll here or someone is really deluded.


Yeah, he doesn't seem to understand that the specs Bitfenix put on the box of Spectre Pro are complete garbage. None of it is true, not even close. I'll leave him to his ignorance.


----------



## Mysterion90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mam72*
> 
> Think we have a troll here or someone is really deluded.


What is your problem?

Can you show me some 140mm fans which have >1800rpm at a reasonable noise level?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, he doesn't seem to understand that the specs Bitfenix put on the box of Spectre Pro are complete garbage. None of it is true, not even close. I'll leave him to his ignorance.


No ignorance just different experiences. Also comparing apples to oranges is pointless.


----------



## doyll

Seems a very arrogant attitude.


----------



## Failuyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> What is your problem?
> 
> Can you show me some 140mm fans which have >1800rpm at a reasonable noise level?
> No ignorance just different experiences. Also comparing apples to oranges is pointless.


rpm =/= air moved. Just a heads up.
A higher quality 1500rpm fan could be quieter and/or push more air. I'd be willing to bet a noctua or noiseblocker fan at 1700/1500rpm would be quieter and have equal if not better air flow.


----------



## austinmrs

What do you guys think of the Noctua nf-a14 flx? Im thinking on buy 4 of them, to put on my Arc Midi R2, and then have a H220 on the top, exhausting.

SO would be 2 Noctua on the front intake, 1 on the bottom intake, 1 on the rear exhausting and then the H220 on the top exhausting.


----------



## doyll

They are good fans but there are others as good and cheaper. Phanteks PH-F140XP are about $15.00. I would suggest PWM version and use CPU or CPU & GPU PWM signal to control them. That way case fans idle down same as component fans when system is not working hard and speed up when system works hard and needs more airflow.
Check out first link in my sig.


----------



## Mysterion90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Failuyr*
> 
> rpm =/= air moved. Just a heads up.
> A higher quality 1500rpm fan could be quieter and/or push more air. I'd be willing to bet a noctua or noiseblocker fan at 1700/1500rpm would be quieter and have equal if not better air flow.


Yes I know but i was also looking for good static pressure and you don't get high static pressure without high rpm. i have tried different fans including those considered "moving a ton air at low noise" ones like bequiet Shadow Wings or Thermalright TY 140 but the problem with those fans is, at a distance of only 10cm you can't feel the air anymore whereas i can feel the airflow at about 20-25cm distance with the Scythe Grand Flex 120 PWM or Bitfenix Spectre Pro PWM 140. High static pressure fans don't have this issue and are better for my needs.

Just one last word to this "the bitfenix fans don't have the cfm they are advertised at". google for reviews, there are a couple where they measured the cfm and it was almost exactly as advertised.


----------



## doyll

Sorry, but "feeling" airflow is quite deceptive as to how much air a fan is actually supplying.

Thermalright TY-140 series fans are highly respected for their performance. And not just by general users but by professionals who have done extensive testing of fans.

As for fan specs please supply links to backup your statement.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> Yes I know but i was also looking for *good static pressure* and you don't get high static pressure without high rpm. i have tried different fans including those considered "moving a ton air at low noise" ones like bequiet Shadow Wings or Thermalright TY 140 but the problem with those fans is, at a distance of only 10cm you can't feel the air anymore whereas i can feel the airflow at about 20-25cm distance with the Scythe Grand Flex 120 PWM or Bitfenix Spectre Pro PWM 140. High static pressure fans don't have this issue and are better for my needs.
> 
> Just one last word to this "the bitfenix fans don't have the cfm they are advertised at". google for reviews, there are a couple where they measured the cfm and it was almost exactly as advertised.


I don't really like the term static pressure, it only tells part of the story, it tells you how much pressure the fan out puts when the CFM is ZERO. When it comes to picking a fan you should treat it like a pump (well it is a type of pump when you think about it), that means you want a fan with a airflow over a variety of different pressures (or restriction if you like).

I showed you a review of the spectre fans, one of them is The OP and the other was martins liquid labs. Both show the fans as being a bit meh.

Should point out I am saying this as not to confuse people with the nonsense that Mysterion90 is saying.


----------



## doyll

Indeed.








Usable airflow is the fan's ability to move air in real life application, not it's CFM in totally unrestricted or it's mm H2O in totally restricted use. Very few companies give use a P/Q curve showing what fan actually flows in everyday applications.


----------



## Mysterion90

Sigh, I'm tired and won't be commenting any further. Apparently you don't want to understand me.


----------



## Munk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mysterion90*
> 
> ...i have tried different fans including those considered "moving a ton air at low noise" ones like bequiet Shadow Wings or Thermalright TY 140 but the problem with those fans is, at a distance of only 10cm you can't feel the air anymore whereas...
> 
> Just one last word to this "the bitfenix fans don't have the cfm they are advertised at". google for reviews, there are a couple where they measured the cfm and it was almost exactly as advertised.


Completely disagree with your informal testing of the Thermalright TY 140 (if you did test it and aren't just throwing the name in to push an agenda).
But this has obviously turning into a fight and I want no part of it (I came here for reviews, not to fight the reviewer).

Also, please provide a source for your "this site tested and it matches the written specs" comment.
You are going to go up against a wave of criticism whenever you bring up this specific point, please back up your statement.

*EDIT:* Guess that's the end of that. BACK ON TOPIC chaps!


----------



## doyll

Funny how when asked for sources all goes quiet.


----------



## ladcrooks

it goes quite cos the fans now are quite


----------



## Queso802

I have some extra fans that I want to use to replace my Corsair SP120's on my H100i.

What would you guys recommend out of this group for a push/pull setup for top and bottoms:

2x Noctua P12's

2x Noctua S12A's

2x GT AP-15's

Thanks a ton in advance for the info.


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Queso802*
> 
> I have some extra fans that I want to use to replace my Corsair SP120's on my H100i.
> 
> What would you guys recommend out of this group for a push/pull setup for top and bottoms:
> 
> 2x Noctua P12's
> 
> 2x Noctua S12A's
> 
> 2x GT AP-15's
> 
> Thanks a ton in advance for the info.


Have you tried running the fans off the motherboard or reduced the voltage to 5v/7v? If you did what temperatures did you get on the H100?

As for fans I would not recommend either of the Noctua fans, the don't do too well. The AP-15s will be fine, aside from GTs most good fans kinds sound the same on radiators.


----------



## Cyclops

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Queso802*
> 
> I have some extra fans that I want to use to replace my Corsair SP120's on my H100i.
> 
> What would you guys recommend out of this group for a push/pull setup for top and bottoms:
> 
> 2x Noctua P12's
> 
> 2x Noctua S12A's
> 
> 2x GT AP-15's
> 
> Thanks a ton in advance for the info.


P12 if you value silence. AP-15 if you value performance.


----------



## Queso802

Thanks guys! Will prob just grab some more GT's. Seems like you can never have enough stock.

Ok to use the other Noctua as case fans or is that a waste?


----------



## mam72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Queso802*
> 
> Thanks guys! Will prob just grab some more GT's. Seems like you can never have enough stock.
> 
> Ok to use the other Noctua as case fans or is that a waste?


Personally I think they are a waste of money. Any good fan that runs at 1000RPM or less should be fine.


----------



## doyll

Agreed.
But that being said I know a couple of people who have all Noctua with great cooling and very quiet. It's really your decision, not ours.


----------



## lawson67

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Agreed.
> But that being said I know a couple of people who have all Noctua with great cooling and very quiet. It's really your decision, not ours.


Hi doyll or Cyclops i wondered if you could help me as i do not know much about fans!... However i have not long ago bought 2x R9 290 cards in crossfire and i want to improve the cooling inside my case...All of my case fans are 120mm AK174CB-4BLB Akasa Fans which spin at 1700 R.P.M and push 59.05 CFM of air!...I have one intake at the front case bottom pulling air in... And one on the deck in front of the PSU pulling air in and up towards the roof of the case and flowing air over the GPU,S... and 2x in the roof extracting!

However my case can take 140mm fans and i thought these might move air though the case than 120mm fans?...So bought a NZXT RF-FZ140-U1 (Blue LED) fan which spins at 1000 +/- 200 R.P.M. and they claim it moves 83.6 CFM compared to the 59.05 CFM of air of the 120mm Akasa fans....However when it arrived today i wired it in to my fan controller and set it to full speed and hung a piece of A4 paper in front of it and it indeed pushed it up half way....then i did the same with the Akasa fan i just removed and that pushed it up nearly all the way!

So does this mean that the Akasa 120mm fan moves more air than the NZXT?... Even though the Akasa 120mm fan claims only to move 59.05 CFM of air and the NZXT fan is claimed to move 83.6 CFM?...Or am i getting it wrong?...Does the Akasa push the paper up higher cos its smaller and spinning faster and therefore is creating more pressure but not in fact moving more air?...If you believe the NZXT fans should be better i will buy 2 more and put them in the roof of my PC...however the paper test has got me confused and it would appear that the 120mm fans are more powerful?...Many thanks in advance for any advice you can offer









Akasa Specs

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AKASA-AK174CB-4BLB-Fan-Case-120Mm-Blue-Led-/251517805536?pt=UK_Computing_Fan_Heatsink_Brackets_Accessories&hash=item3a8fa123e0

NZXT Fan specs

https://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/115-fz-140mm-led-case-fan


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawson67*
> 
> Hi doyll or Cyclops i wondered if you could help me as i do not know much about fans!... However i have not long ago bought 2x R9 290 cards in crossfire and i want to improve the cooling inside my case...All of my case fans are 120mm AK174CB-4BLB Akasa Fans which spin at 1700 R.P.M and push 59.05 CFM of air!...I have one intake at the front case bottom pulling air in... And one on the deck in front of the PSU pulling air in and up towards the roof of the case and flowing air over the GPU,S... and 2x in the roof extracting!
> 
> However my case can take 140mm fans and i thought these might move air though the case than 120mm fans?...So bought a NZXT RF-FZ140-U1 (Blue LED) fan which spins at 1000 +/- 200 R.P.M. and they claim it moves 83.6 CFM compared to the 59.05 CFM of air of the 120mm Akasa fans....However when it arrived today i wired it in to my fan controller and set it to full speed and hung a piece of A4 paper in front of it and it indeed pushed it up half way....then i did the same with the Akasa fan i just removed and that pushed it up nearly all the way!
> 
> So does this mean that the Akasa 120mm fan moves more air than the NZXT?... Even though the Akasa 120mm fan claims only to move 59.05 CFM of air and the NZXT fan is claimed to move 83.6 CFM?...Or am i getting it wrong?...Does the Akasa push the paper up higher cos its smaller and spinning faster and therefore is creating more pressure but not in fact moving more air?...If you believe the NZXT fans should be better i will buy 2 more and put them in the roof of my PC...however the paper test has got me confused and it would appear that the 120mm fans are more powerful?...Many thanks in advance for any advice you can offer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Akasa Specs
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AKASA-AK174CB-4BLB-Fan-Case-120Mm-Blue-Led-/251517805536?pt=UK_Computing_Fan_Heatsink_Brackets_Accessories&hash=item3a8fa123e0
> 
> NZXT Fan specs
> 
> https://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/115-fz-140mm-led-case-fan


120mm fans generally have more static pressure than 140mm fans with similar RPM. It's hard to prove what CFM they push as the manufacturers can claim whatever they want and put it on the box. I can't comment on any of those products as I haven't tested them. If you want more airflow inside your case then you need higher RPM fans which means more noise, if you're okay with that then look at the charts in the first post and choose a product accordingly.


----------



## edsai

I have the NZXT FZ-140 non led.
IMO the claimed air flow seems exaggerated.
Mine has also a bit loud motor noise at full blast around 1150 rpm.

XbitLabs reviewed the FZ fans here and here:

Having the lowest speeds, the Nanoxia FX EVO 140 IFC 1000 and two *NZXT FZ-140 fans are the worst in this test. By the way, the latter model has a very high specified air flow, but our tests do not agree with that.*


----------



## lawson67

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 120mm fans generally have more static pressure than 140mm fans with similar RPM. It's hard to prove what CFM they push as the manufacturers can claim whatever they want and put it on the box. I can't comment on any of those products as I haven't tested them. If you want more airflow inside your case then you need higher RPM fans which means more noise, if you're okay with that then look at the charts in the first post and choose a product accordingly.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edsai*
> 
> I have the NZXT FZ-140 non led.
> IMO the claimed air flow seems exaggerated.
> Mine has also a bit loud motor noise at full blast around 1150 rpm.
> 
> XbitLabs reviewed the FZ fans here and here:
> 
> Having the lowest speeds, the Nanoxia FX EVO 140 IFC 1000 and two *NZXT FZ-140 fans are the worst in this test. By the way, the latter model has a very high specified air flow, but our tests do not agree with that.*


Thanks for the reply guys and yes i do believe they have exaggerated the CFM output of the FZ fans!...To be honest what i am looking for is a blue LED high air flow 140mm fan and i am not that worried about the noise as i have fan controllers.....I just want lots of air movement.....So if you can think of any performance 140mm blue LED fans please let me know thanks guys


----------



## edsai

lawson67,

I haven't heard much about the Phanteks PH-F140SP's.
According to them they're designed to overcome high static pressure.

Source


----------



## lawson67

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edsai*
> 
> lawson67,
> 
> I haven't heard much about the Phanteks PH-F140SP's.
> According to them they're designed to overcome high static pressure.
> 
> Source


I bought these Enermax T.B.Vegas Duo Fan UCTVD14A 140 x 140 x 25 1500rpm 90.8 cfm....Not only do they look cool they did very well in this review which i shall link below and was the best preforming 140mm fan tested!....thanks for your help guys

Bought from here:
http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Enermax-140-x-140-x-25mm-TB-Vegas-Duo-Blue-and-Red-LED-Case-Fan--UCTVD14A-pid-12714.html

Review here:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/331629-28-cooling-roundup-2012


----------



## edsai

You're welcome.


----------



## karimzodiak

I have CM690 II plus i want to buy new fans overall 6

2 140mm Bottom as Intake
2 140mm Top as Exhaust
1 140mm Blue LED Front as Intake (Im thinking in AeroCool Shark Blue 140mm) (96 CFM)
1 120mm Back as Exhaust

For The 140mm
Currently i am between Akasa Viper High Performance S-Flow 140mm (110 CFM) (Hydro Dynamic Bearing) Or Scythe GlideStream 140mm (106 CFM) (Sleeve bearing)

For the 120mm Scythe GlideStream PWN 1900rpm (108 CFM) or Scythe SlipStream 1900rpm (110CFM)

But i need your advice guys which one is better and if you have another opinion with other fan which have highest CFM for 140mm and 120mm Fan please advice???


----------



## IKIKUINTHENUTZ

Hey cyclops,

I don't know if you have the funds for this but do you think you could possibly test the 120mm Sanyo Denki fan 9S1212l401 (ribbed) or 9S1212l4011 (ribless) and see how it compares?

If you manage to find the more rare 9S1212l4011 (ribless) use that instead! Same fan but better compatibility.

http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki-sanace-fans/9s1212l401/axial-fan-120mm-12vdc-80ma/dp/96M1769?mckv=s8lQ69GcQ|pcrid|45030430955|plid|&CMP=KNC-G-SKU-MDC


----------



## coelacanth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Agreed.
> But that being said I know a couple of people who have all Noctua with great cooling and very quiet. It's really your decision, not ours.


I replaced all of my case fans with six 140mm Noctua NF-A14 PWM fans (3 intake, 3 exhaust) and have been in air-cooling nirvana ever since. I have a custom PWM profile in my BIOS and all of the fans, including 2 120mm fans on my CPU cooler, on a Swiftech PWM splitter. Browsing the web, my computer is almost silent. Playing games, the fans ramp up nicely. I have a side exhaust next to 2 GTX 780s (ACX coolers) in SLI that pulls a lot of hot air away from the graphics cards.

The Noctua fans were more expensive, but well worth it for me.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IKIKUINTHENUTZ*
> 
> Hey cyclops,
> 
> I don't know if you have the funds for this but do you think you could possibly test the 120mm Sanyo Denki fan 9S1212l401 (ribbed) or 9S1212l4011 (ribless) and see how it compares?
> 
> If you manage to find the more rare 9S1212l4011 (ribless) use that instead! Same fan but better compatibility.
> 
> http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki-sanace-fans/9s1212l401/axial-fan-120mm-12vdc-80ma/dp/96M1769?mckv=s8lQ69GcQ|pcrid|45030430955|plid|&CMP=KNC-G-SKU-MDC


I would love to see this!


----------



## benbenkr

I think it's time Cooler Master Jetflo fans get a test. They've been getting quite a bit of interest in the last few months and for good reason; the specs rated on the box are actually pretty close to actual real world testing. So it's not the typcial CM bs as many are used to.

They're good fans, but a little on the noisy side of course.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> I think it's time Cooler Master Jetflo fans get a test. They've been getting quite a bit of interest in the last few months and for good reason; the specs rated on the box are actually pretty close to actual real world testing. So it's not the typcial CM bs as many are used to.
> 
> They're good fans, but a little on the noisy side of course.


Cooler Master contacted me to review it but I think they got cold feet at the last second and pulled out.


----------



## patrickjp93

Forgive me, but what methods did you use to measure noise? I seem to have missed it in the first few pages.

I'd considered doing a big side-by-side comparison of today's fan offerings for use as case fans, radiator fans, heatsync fans, etc. in both negative and positive pressure configs, but I'd need either a lot of free fans from the manufacturers or a pretty decent kickstarter to bankroll it. I'm a university student living on a tight budget, so, you know...

I have to say I wish you had captured more use-cases like radiator, intake, cpu cooler, but I know that would have multiplied your work by 4.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> Forgive me, but what methods did you use to measure noise? I seem to have missed it in the first few pages.


I had the microphone to the front and right side of the test rig. Nothing scientific but it was the same for every test so the results were consistent.


----------



## patrickjp93

But what did you use to measure it? What program? What distance?


----------



## spenceaj

you should add jetflo 120's on all 3 noise adapter settings


----------



## TONSCHUH

I should get soon some BGears B-Blaster 120mm x 25mm 2000RPM High Speed Fan.

If you don't mind some noise, then maybe have a look at some ebm papst 4112NH4 (355m3/h air-flow). I used some with a Thermaltake FRIO OCK and NZXT. Sentry Mesh Fan Controller.


----------



## rtikphox

wow great write up. I've been spending premium on those 140s when I shoulda gone back to 120s.


----------



## bizzzle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> LNA = Low Noise Adaptor
> ULNA = Ultra Low Noise Adaptor
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 120 mm Fans - Temperature
> 
> 
> 
> Lower is better.
> 
> Push/Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> Push:
> 
> 
> 
> Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 120 mm Fans - Noise
> 
> 
> 
> Lower is better.
> 
> Push/Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> Push:
> 
> 
> 
> Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 120 mm Fans - Noise to Temperature Rating
> 
> 
> 
> Lower is better.
> 
> Push/Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> Push:
> 
> 
> 
> Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 140 mm Fans - Temperature
> 
> 
> 
> Lower is better.
> 
> Push/Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> Push:
> 
> 
> 
> Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 140 mm Fans - Noise
> 
> 
> 
> Lower is better.
> 
> Push/Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> Push:
> 
> 
> 
> Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 140 mm Fans - Noise to Temperature Rating
> 
> 
> 
> Push/Pull:
> 
> 
> 
> Push:
> 
> 
> 
> Pull:


Hi,
First of all, this is Great info, and super helpful to the community. Thanks for your hard work.
I didn't have a chance to read through all 79 pages of this awesome thread, so I apologize if what I am asking has been mentioned or answered yet.

As an engineer, I have been contemplating the rating method you are using, and although using a rating between temperature difference to noise gives some useful info to compare, it is lacking in a few areas. For example, it fails to give penalties for values being outside the realm of usefulness, such as extraordinarily loud, or temperatures being dangerously high. I'm still not quite sure the best algorithm to use in analyzing these fans, but I would love to do some experimentation with different formulas, and try to introduce some new calculated variables.
For example, some factors to try to work into a formula might be: percentage towards max processor temp or percentage over ambient noise.
Maybe just adding a weighting value to make high noise count more than good cooling would help shuffle the best performing quiet fans to the top, and vice versa .
Maybe using a multi-valued rating system could help users sort the list by the quality they find important.

I'm not sure what the best way to do this is, but I would love to help out in some way. If you want to discuss some ideas, i would be down to chat, or if you wouldn't mind sending me a list of your raw data, I could start playing with formulas, and send you some ideas.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bizzzle*
> 
> Hi,
> First of all, this is Great info, and super helpful to the community. Thanks for your hard work.
> I didn't have a chance to read through all 79 pages of this awesome thread, so I apologize if what I am asking has been mentioned or answered yet.
> 
> As an engineer, I have been contemplating the rating method you are using, and although using a rating between temperature difference to noise gives some useful info to compare, it is lacking in a few areas. For example, it fails to give penalties for values being outside the realm of usefulness, such as extraordinarily loud, or temperatures being dangerously high. I'm still not quite sure the best algorithm to use in analyzing these fans, but I would love to do some experimentation with different formulas, and try to introduce some new calculated variables.
> For example, some factors to try to work into a formula might be: percentage towards max processor temp or percentage over ambient noise.
> Maybe just adding a weighting value to make high noise count more than good cooling would help shuffle the best performing quiet fans to the top, and vice versa .
> Maybe using a multi-valued rating system could help users sort the list by the quality they find important.
> 
> I'm not sure what the best way to do this is, but I would love to help out in some way. If you want to discuss some ideas, i would be down to chat, or if you wouldn't mind sending me a list of your raw data, I could start playing with formulas, and send you some ideas.


Thanks. The noise to temp rating is a simple way of figuring out how efficient a fan is at moving air while generating as little noise as possible. The situation that you mentioned "extraordinarily loud, or temperatures being dangerously high" can happen but won't favor the product in noise/temp rating.

Two extreme examples: 95C temp with 25db would give you a noise to temp rating of 12, which is terrible. On the other side of the scale, 40C with 70db would give you an 11 rating which is almost as bad. The system favors fans with a lot of airflow while remaining operationally quiet, i.e. efficient.


----------



## cloppy007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bizzzle*
> 
> Hi,
> First of all, this is Great info, and super helpful to the community. Thanks for your hard work.
> I didn't have a chance to read through all 79 pages of this awesome thread, so I apologize if what I am asking has been mentioned or answered yet.
> 
> As an engineer, I have been contemplating the rating method you are using, and although using a rating between temperature difference to noise gives some useful info to compare, it is lacking in a few areas. For example, it fails to give penalties for values being outside the realm of usefulness, such as extraordinarily loud, or temperatures being dangerously high. I'm still not quite sure the best algorithm to use in analyzing these fans, but I would love to do some experimentation with different formulas, and try to introduce some new calculated variables.
> For example, some factors to try to work into a formula might be: percentage towards max processor temp or percentage over ambient noise.
> Maybe just adding a weighting value to make high noise count more than good cooling would help shuffle the best performing quiet fans to the top, and vice versa .
> Maybe using a multi-valued rating system could help users sort the list by the quality they find important.
> 
> I'm not sure what the best way to do this is, but I would love to help out in some way. If you want to discuss some ideas, i would be down to chat, or if you wouldn't mind sending me a list of your raw data, I could start playing with formulas, and send you some ideas.


This was discussed before, see here.


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TONSCHUH*
> 
> I should get soon some BGears B-Blaster 120mm x 25mm 2000RPM High Speed Fan.
> 
> If you don't mind some noise, then maybe have a look at some ebm papst 4112NH4 (355m3/h air-flow). I used some with a Thermaltake FRIO OCK and NZXT. Sentry Mesh Fan Controller.


I prefer the Sentry Mix 2 myself both for having 6 fans and for having fan leads that can reach clear out the back of a full tower loan li case (great for those of us who still mount radiators outside, though those cases with lower compartments for them now are great too for a cleaner look).


----------



## Gimbo

Awesome work great write up.


----------



## Caketaro

please please consider doing a test on the bequiet silent wings fans? I'd love you forever.

+rep for an awesome workup


----------



## doyll

As no testing has been done in awhile, Hardware.fr has tested the Silent Wings 2
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/874-8/be-quiet-shadow-wings-silentwings-2-pure-test.html
and an interactive graph for comparisons
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2147200


----------



## Caketaro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> As no testing has been done in awhile, Hardware.fr has tested the Silent Wings 2
> http://www.hardware.fr/articles/874-8/be-quiet-shadow-wings-silentwings-2-pure-test.html
> and an interactive graph for comparisons
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2147200


Thanks!


----------



## dpoverlord

What would be interesting would be to give the best fan which rates as the best overall best of both worlds.

Personally I am looking for a new 120mm on the top of my case and always used SILENX fans then was looking at switching some up.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dpoverlord*
> 
> What would be interesting would be to give the best fan which rates as the best overall best of both worlds.
> 
> Personally I am looking for a new 120mm on the top of my case and always used SILENX fans then was looking at switching some up.


That's hard to do considering I've tested so many fans and a lot of them come close to each other. I'd say compare the fans that are around the 40db mark and see which one perform the best and go with that one.


----------



## doyll

@ Cyclops, good to see you!

I agree about the 40dBA .. or less if you want quieter. Problem is 40dBA doing what, open air or in 'real world' use through a cooler or grill / filter?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @ Cyclops, good to see you!
> 
> I agree about the 40dBA .. or less if you want quieter. Problem is 40dBA doing what, open air or in 'real world' use through a cooler or grill / filter?












Yeah, the 40db rating in my tests is the microphone a feet away from the open test bench that I test my fans on, so it's quite sensitive. It would probably be inaudible inside a case a few feet away.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the 40db rating in my tests is the microphone a feet away from the open test bench that I test my fans on, so it's quite sensitive. It would probably be inaudible inside a case a few feet away.


Yeah, 40dBA @ a foot is 31dBA @ 3 feet.








I know you are aware, but for others, the sound level is only part of how "loud" something will feel. Meter reading of 40dBA is not the same as what we feel/hear from different sounds. This makes the actual sound quite subjective for each of us. What one finds pleasant another finds objectionable.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm thinking about restarting the testing program. I've got about 30-40 pairs of fans I haven't looked at yet.


----------



## doyll

That is one hell of a lot of work staring you in the face.


----------



## Cyclops

So I listed the models I have a pair of:

Bitfenix Spectre PWM
Cooler Master Turbine Master Mach 1.8
Cooler Master Blade Master 120
Cooler Master A12025-12CB-3BN-F1
Cooler Master DF1202512SELN
Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition CO-9050002-WW
Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition CO-9050015-BLED
Corsair SP120 PWM Quiet Edition CO-9050012-WW
Corsair A1225L12S
Cougar CF-T12S
Delta PFR1212DHE-SP00
Delta AUB1212H-CK15
Enermax TB Silence UCTB12
Evercool Evergreen EGF-12
Fractal Design FD-FAN-120 OEM
Gelid Silent 12 TC FN-TX12-15
Gelid Slim 12 UA Blue FN-FW12SLIMB-15
IPCQueen Fan-Speedup120-S
Masscool FD12025B1L3/4
Nexus D12SL-12PWM
NZXT Performance 120mm Fan OEM
Rosewill RFX-120
Thermaltake Thunderblade AF0032

I've also got six different models of eLoop that Noiseblocker sent me but they only sent one of each and therefore can't complete the test suit.


----------



## Cyclops

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm so glad that the test bench is working properly. I just re-tested one of the fans that I went over back in 2012 and it's giving me almost the exact same temps as I got three years ago. 0.15C difference to be exact which is an extremely pleasing margin of error. I'm set and I'm pumped!!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm so glad that the test bench is working properly. I just re-tested one of the fans that I went over back in 2012 and it's giving me almost the exact same temps as I got three years ago. 0.15C difference to be exact which is an extremely pleasing margin of error. I'm set and I'm pumped!!


Great news! 0.15c is extremely accurate. Slightly different barometric pressure and/or difference in humidity can easily be that much.








You have PM


----------



## BoredErica

Wow.

You are the fan man!!!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm thinking about restarting the testing program. I've got about 30-40 pairs of fans I haven't looked at yet.


Do itttt


----------



## Cyclops

One of the upcoming fans uses 50W under load. Try to guess which.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> One of the upcoming fans uses 50W under load. Try to guess which.


GO GO GO GO!!!

ALL THE FANS!

...I WANT ALL OF THEM!

PS:
Few years ago somebody did a fan shootout and said some of the Gentle Typhoons were best. Are those still good?

I am relying on you for my purchasing decisions!


----------



## TheCautiousOne

Repping Because I was in here for a grip for the best info on the Spectre Pro's I've ever had.

TCO


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheCautiousOne*
> 
> Repping Because I was in here for a grip for the best info on the Spectre Pro's I've ever had.
> 
> TCO


Don't you love it that people keep using them cause they look "cool"? A NF-P12 for example, runs 9C cooler and is quieter.


----------



## TheCautiousOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Don't you love it that people keep using them cause they look "cool"? A NF-P12 for example, runs 9C cooler and is quieter.


Also 8$ More Each









I did go with a ton of SPectre Pro's and Spectre Led 120mm For them to match my Build Colors.

TCO


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Hope YOu don't Mind


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheCautiousOne*
> 
> Also 8$ More Each
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did go with a ton of SPectre Pro's and Spectre Led 120mm For them to match my Build Colors.
> 
> TCO
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope YOu don't Mind


Lol, can't really bring the cost argument into it when you're running dual loops.


----------



## TheCautiousOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Lol, can't really bring the cost argument into it when you're running dual loops.










You gota shave a buck here and there when you can! I know it sounds silly but when I cut cost by X amount and Put it to something else in the build.

TCO


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #61 - Corsair SP120 PWM Quiet Edition CO-9050012-WW:





It's been almost two years since my last fan review and I'm glad to say that I'm back.

Back to the SP120 Quiet Edition. These fans are quite efficient, on push at least. They tied with best in the ~33 dBA class of fans. Wider blades demonstrated their ability to generate a decent amount of static pressure even at moderate RPM.

These are one of the best aesthetically pleasing fans that are on the market. The replaceable colored rings can be easily painted to suit your rig's color scheme. It uses flat black wires with no braiding which in my opinion, should be standard on all fans. The anti-vibration mounts are also quite effective and a nice addition. They manage to operate quite effortlessly using only half a watt at full blast.

Overall, nice bit of hardware, if a bit expensive.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #62 - Enermax TB Silence UCTB12:





These are the Lower RPM version of the T.B.Silence UCTB12N-R that I previously reviewed. Everything is pretty much the same apart from the lower RPM range which resulted in lower noise and lower overall airflow. Because of that, the noise to temperature efficiency has improved considerably, with push/pull ducking under the 8 mark which is quite impressive, however, pull results were anything but impressive, running almost 12C hotter than push with worse dBA readings.

Nonetheless, the second fan of the bunch is running at around 100 RPM lower than the first one, indicating a factory defect or excessive lubrication.


----------



## BoredErica

According to your chart, the Fractal Design FD-Fan-140 is the best 140mm push fan. Which fan is that? Same with the best push 120, Zalman, can't find the fan on Google.

Great work, I'm actually going to base my buying decision off of your data once it's all done.









Another suggestion... should you ever run out of fans to try, you can always search up other group fan reviews people have done, pick the top winners, and go on from there!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> According to your chart, the Fractal Design FD-Fan-140 is the best 140mm push fan. Which fan is that? Same with the best push 120, Zalman, can't find the fan on Google.
> 
> Great work, I'm actually going to base my buying decision off of your data once it's all done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another suggestion... should you ever run out of fans to try, you can always search up other group fan reviews people have done, pick the top winners, and go on from there!


Cyclops is doing a good job here.








I think the Phanteks PH-F140TS is just as good, but no longer being made. F140TS is first fan Phanteks made, and their newer fans are even better. Thermalright TY-140 series fans are fan-tastic! They perform as well as (I think a little better than) Noctua NF-A14 & NF-A15 fans and cost less .. but are hard to find in USA.

To me a good fan functions very well over a wide speed range .. cooling well at low / quiet speeds and not getting too loud (about 40dBA) when cooling extreme loads .. maybe a little louder. Point is extreme loads are rare. Even for me rendering graphics (90-95% CPU all cores / thread) is well below Prime95 load / temps.

Hopefully Cyclops will be testing the newer Phanteks and Thermalright fans.


----------



## miklkit

Indeed this is a good database. I have found out the hard way that the Aerocool Deep Silence 120 fans are indeed quiet but don't move much air behind filters.









I was already pretty happy with Arctic Cooling F12s and looking at the chart I find that they run 1C warmer than Gentle Typhoons while being 1 decibel quieter and only costing half as much. So I ordered 4 of them.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> According to your chart, the Fractal Design FD-Fan-140 is the best 140mm push fan. Which fan is that? Same with the best push 120, Zalman, can't find the fan on Google.
> 
> Great work, I'm actually going to base my buying decision off of your data once it's all done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another suggestion... should you ever run out of fans to try, you can always search up other group fan reviews people have done, pick the top winners, and go on from there!


The best is a bit subjective, but for the 140mm push results, top 3 are all excellent choices. The FD-Fan-140 is the OEM version of this fan. The one I reviewed were taken from a Fractal Design case, which is why I called them OEM.

This is the Zalman fan, seems to be out of stock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Cyclops is doing a good job here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Phanteks PH-F140TS is just as good, but no longer being made. F140TS is first fan Phanteks made, and their newer fans are even better. Thermalright TY-140 series fans are fan-tastic! They perform as well as (I think a little better than) Noctua NF-A14 & NF-A15 fans and cost less .. but are hard to find in USA.
> 
> To me a good fan functions very well over a wide speed range .. cooling well at low / quiet speeds and not getting too loud (about 40dBA) when cooling extreme loads .. maybe a little louder. Point is extreme loads are rare. Even for me rendering graphics (90-95% CPU all cores / thread) is well below Prime95 load / temps.
> 
> Hopefully Cyclops will be testing the newer Phanteks and Thermalright fans.


Thanks. I should get in touch with Phanteks again, they have sent me samples before. As for Thermalright, they just sent me an e-mail so hopefully I'll have their products for review as well.


----------



## Cyclops

Look what came in the mail today:



Thanks Noctua


----------



## doyll

Phanteks, Cryorig, ID-Cooling, Raijintek, EK has their new Vardar 120mm fans that rival Scythe's old Gentle Typhoon fans by Nidec. All would be good to see test results.


----------



## rtikphox

I know you got the stock corsair 120mm fan that black one but can you tedy the generic ones that come on the 750D it's a weaker version of Corsair AF140L (grey ones). Also how about silenx 38mm one IXP-76-18. Also but lastly the EK Furious Vardar FF5-120.


----------



## Cyclops

All in good time, I've got too many fans to go over as it is.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm gonna start testing the 140mm fans on the 120mm test rig for better product comparison. I will be keeping the results of 140mm test rig till I have finished retesting all of the fans on the 120mm test bench.


----------



## BoredErica

FANTASTIC!!!

My guess is that the Noctua industrial fans won't be as good as the Noctua fans in terms of silence vs cooling.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> FANTASTIC!!!
> 
> My guess is that the Noctua industrial fans won't be as good as the Noctua fans in terms of silence vs cooling.


Yes, well, the IPPC fans are designed for server environment with 24/7 work load. It's not that you can't adapt them to regular usage, it's quite easy actually with a decent motherboard and PWM control.


----------



## ThijsH

Wow great list! Subbing for future reference


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #63 - Noctua NF-F12 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM:





These are the highest performing 120mm fans Noctua have ever made. At 3000 RPM, they are quite loud, but that's to be expected considering their Industrial design. They move a ton of air and are to be primarily used in server environments with a constant work load, however, due to their huge PWM range (750 - 3000 RPM), they can run absolutely silently when tuned down via a fan controller or a PWM fan header. The bearing is quite efficient and the whole fan uses only 3 watts of power under full load.

The packaging is quite basic, which is there to increase affordability. The rubber vibration dampening grummets that the original F12 fan had are still included though which is a nice touch.

The biggest change though, is the color. All of the IndustrialPPC fans come in black which is a much welcomed change compared to their traditional "Noctua" colors. The braiding is adequate. I still would like to see all black wires with or without braiding.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 120mm Fan #63 - Noctua NF-F12 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM:
> 
> These are the highest performing 120mm fans Noctua have ever made. At 3000 RPM, they are quite loud, but that's to be expected considering their Industrial design. They move a ton of air and are to be primarily used in server environments with a constant work load, however, due to their huge PWM range (750 - 3000 RPM), they can run absolutely silently when tuned down via a fan controller or a PWM fan header. The bearing is quite efficient and the whole fan uses only 3 watts of power under full load.
> 
> The packaging is quite basic, which is there to increase affordability. The rubber vibration dampening grummets that the original F12 fan had are still included though which is a nice touch.
> 
> The biggest change though, is the color. All of the IndustrialPPC fans come in black which is a much welcomed change compared to their traditional "Noctua" colors. The braiding is adequate. I still would like to see all black wires with or without braiding.


But will it have the best noise to temperature rating when pushed down to the rpms of the other Noctua fans?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> But will it have the best noise to temperature rating when pushed down to the rpms of the other Noctua fans?


Possibly, The original NF-F12 did hit ~1100 RPM with the included LNA and the noise to temp was pretty good then.


----------



## doyll

What Darkwizzie asked.

We need to know how the PWM fans perform at lower RPM, especially the high speed ones. One of my favorite fans is the 2500rpm TY-143 .. because it has same performance (both airflow & noise) as the Ty-140 & TY-147 from 650-1300rpm ([email protected]), but when needed can push 130cfm at 2500rpm.

After all the purpose of PWM is to give fan a wider range of speed, so testing at only maximum speed would be like testing a Bentley at only 197mph .. after all that is the top speed of the Continental GT twin-turbocharged W-12.


----------



## BoredErica

Dang, Noctua doesn't make 200mm fans.


----------



## the Duff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Dang, Noctua doesn't make 200mm fans.


Soon... Link


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #64 - Cooler Master Turbine Master Mach 1.8:





Curious little fan. For starters, it has an even number of blades, 16. For those of you who don't know, a fan with an even number of blades is susceptible to resonance and its effects which can, in some cases, cause irregular vibration that can ultimately lead to failure.

However, you can counter this by placing more propeller blades on the unit to achieve balance, which is what Cooler Master has done here.

The only similar product I could compare this to was the Aerocool Shark Devil, which has 15 fan blades. The Mach 1.8 is slightly inferior to the Aerocool offering, both in terms of noise and efficiency.

The main reason someone would want a Mach 1.8 is probably the aesthetics. it looks pretty good specially when you attach the included turbine center hub. Keep in mind though that the fan will be thicker than 25mm if you do so.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #65 - Noctua NF-S12B Redux-1200 PWM:





These fans have an extreme angle of attack, so the static pressure is not the greatest but they do have pretty good airflow. They run at around 1200 RPM given that the intake or the exhaust are not restricted. As soon as you introduce resistance, they ramp up by around 100 RPM which is something to consider.

The pull performance was disappointing but the push results were pretty good. The noise to temperature efficiency is right up NF-P12s ally, a product that I'm quite fond of.

The color scheme is much more pleasing to the eye than the original S12. The packaging is pretty basic to save on costs, but I still would like to see at least one low noise adapter included in the box.


----------



## guitarhero23

Welp I received my "new" bitfenix spectre 120's from mp3superstore on ebay aka superbiiz. See pictures as they have scuffs and dirt marks all over them (small but unacceptable) on 4/5 of them. Very dissapointed.


----------



## iakoboss7

hello and thank you for your work!

when are you gonna edit the first post with all the new data?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iakoboss7*
> 
> hello and thank you for your work!
> 
> when are you gonna edit the first post with all the new data?


Soon.


----------



## super kermit

Is there a way of comparing the fan noise vs CFM on the same graph?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super kermit*
> 
> Is there a way of comparing the fan noise vs CFM on the same graph?


No, I don't measure CFM.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super kermit*
> 
> Is there a way of comparing the fan noise vs CFM on the same graph?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> No, I don't measure CFM.


In this kind of testing the airflow performance is directly related to CPU temp. The lower the CPU temp, the higher the airflow. Therefore we can look at the dBA to temp of different fans for noise to performance comparisons.


----------



## super kermit

dBA to temp of different fans for noise to performance comparisons

Great and thank you.

Is there a graph for this please?

I have an 800D full of noctua fans and need a few suggestions in regards to better fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *super kermit*
> 
> dBA to temp of different fans for noise to performance comparisons
> 
> Great and thank you.
> 
> Is there a graph for this please?
> 
> I have an 800D full of noctua fans and need a few suggestions in regards to better fans.


Noctua fans are as good as they get.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Noctua fans are as good as they get.


I'm just eyeing the charts.

For example here:



The Fractal Design fan here is FAR better than the tested Noctua fan here...









It's an obsession to cut every last bit of noise possible.







Which fan, what adapter, what config, what size. To me "Noctua fans" is too vague. Gotta be the exact best one for the job!


----------



## doyll

That graph is easily misunderstood.

I manipulated Cyclop's graphs to show both temp and noise on one graph. Hope you don't mind.
I prefer something like this


or this


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> That graph is easily misunderstood.
> 
> I manipulated Cyclop's graphs to show both temp and noise on one graph. Hope you don't mind.
> I prefer something like this
> 
> 
> or this


Thanks. That looks good.


----------



## miklkit

Well there is one in every crowd. I run air cooling in a case that only uses 120 fans behind filters. That means I am only interested in pull performance, and noise.


----------



## doyll

Glad you like it Cyclops.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Well there is one in every crowd. I run air cooling in a case that only uses 120 fans behind filters. That means I am only interested in pull performance, and noise.


What are you talking about?


----------



## miklkit

Those are neat charts you did that shows performance differences in an easier to understand format. Good stuff.

But it leaves me cold as they do not show what I am interested in. I guess I'm grousing because you didn't finish the job.


----------



## doyll

LOL

I'm not skilled enough to do it like the big boys using Excel or similar. I did that all by hand .. and it took a couple of hours. No way will I do that to all the 120mm fans.







I'm a glutten for punishment, but not that much.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #66 - Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition CO-9050002-WW:





These fans have been on the market for a good while. Way back then, I reviewed their higher performance versions. These are the quiet edition sku with advertised RPM of around 1100. They do come with a pair of LNAs, however, they only cut down the RPM by about 100, which isn't much. I'd rather see a more restrictive adapter as these ones barely reduce the noise output or the airflow.

They move a decent amount of air but seemingly lack overall static pressure due to their thin narrow blades, a fact witnessed by their performance. Compared to the SP120 Quiet edition, They run 2 degrees warmer on push at the same noise level. Surprisingly, they match SP120s performance in push/pull with an even lower dBA rating (33.8 vs SP120's 36.9).

Overall, I like these fans. All black wires, rubber grommets, swappable colored rings and premium packaging. Recommended.


----------



## BoredErica

Might I make a suggestion? You can turn this thread the ultimate fan guide! Just include some info about fans in general - pros and cons of different fans, why push is different than push (else I'd just want to reverse the fan and make it go push instead of pull), how dust filters affect your recommendations, what to pick for water cooling, and how the noise to temp rating is derived! I'm looking at the push/pull data and the value for that for the Corsair fan you just looked at is lower than both its push or its pull rating! I thought the push/pull rating is just an average of pull rating and push rating.









For me the only thing that matters is what the top 3 fans are for a given particular use... For a particular fan area of my case. I don't care for a good all-around fan. A fan isn't good if there are 3+ fans that do what it does better unless it's a budget fan (which I don't care for)... So I look at the list and I ignore all the fans after like the top 3 spots.

Another suggestion, maybe it's best to take the data to Google Docs, this allows you and some other authors to work on it, and for your chart values to be updated easier, don't need to re-upload and go through Excel and all that.

You go Fan Man!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Might I make a suggestion? You can turn this thread the ultimate fan guide! Just include some info about fans in general - pros and cons of different fans, why push is different than push (else I'd just want to reverse the fan and make it go push instead of pull), how dust filters affect your recommendations, what to pick for water cooling, and how the noise to temp rating is derived! I'm looking at the push/pull data and the value for that for the Corsair fan you just looked at is lower than both its push or its pull rating! I thought the push/pull rating is just an average of pull rating and push rating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me the only thing that matters is what the top 3 fans are for a given particular use... For a particular fan area of my case. I don't care for a good all-around fan. A fan isn't good if there are 3+ fans that do what it does better unless it's a budget fan (which I don't care for)... So I look at the list and I ignore all the fans after like the top 3 spots.
> 
> Another suggestion, maybe it's best to take the data to Google Docs, this allows you and some other authors to work on it, and for your chart values to be updated easier, don't need to re-upload and go through Excel and all that.
> 
> You go Fan Man!


Well, everybody wants the testing done the way they want, and mostly for good reason too. The fact is that testing fans is incredibly tedious work. I have no incentive to do it because I don't get paid for it and I do everything on my own.

It's basically a passion project I started and got tired of it after a while, hence why I stopped doing it for almost two years.

If I were to implement all the ideas and suggestions that people have, it would easily double my workload, and that would make this whole thing even more unbearable.

So it's not that I don't want to improve and add more stuff, it's just that I don't want to burn myself out and stop again for another two years.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, everybody wants the testing done the way they want, and mostly for good reason too. The fact is that testing fans is incredibly tedious work. I have no incentive to do it because I don't get paid for it and I do everything on my own.
> 
> It's basically a passion project I started and got tired of it after a while, hence why I stopped doing it for almost two years.
> 
> If I were to implement all the ideas and suggestions that people have, it would easily double my workload, and that would make this whole thing even more unbearable.
> 
> So it's not that I don't want to improve and add more stuff, it's just that I don't want to burn myself out and stop again for another two years.


I don't think my suggestions take an overly long amount of time to implement though. Converting to Google doc hopefully is a matter of copy and paste if you have the data on Excel already. A general write-up of some aspects of fan design like static pressure and fan blades (stuff like bearings are easier to find info on Google) should take no more than 15 minutes if it's just text. All of these combined should take less time to finish than it takes to test one fan as you do now. On the other hand, testing an entire lineup of Noctua's industrial fans, that's a choice that makes a far larger impact on how much time you end up spending. I think it's important to make sure the viewer understands the data you spend so much effort obtaining.

Is it against forum rules to throw out a link for contributions?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Is it against forum rules to throw out a link for contributions?


No idea.


----------



## doyll

I believe what Cyclops is doing is okay.








If anything was to change having temp and noise data of different rpm point similar to ULNA and NLA for the PWM fans is far more important than more data about fan construction.
Test data is critical because it is not available on the web.
Fan data that is on the web is there for everyone to see.


----------



## BoredErica

I just installed the Fractal R2 fan.

It is ludicrously quiet... Don't get the point of LNA for a fan that's so quiet on my fan controller's max speed setting...


----------



## iakoboss7

can you probably test the *rev.2* arctic cooling fans? the ones you have tested i think are the rev.1


----------



## Cyclops

These are the 140mm fans I've got in stock that I haven't tested, yet:

Antec TwoCool 140
Corsair A1425L12S OEM
Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition CO-9050017-WLED
Fractal Design FD-Fan-140-R2 OEM
Lian-Li Ll121425QE-4-A OEM
Logisys CF140BL
Phobya G-Silent 14 1200rpm Black
Scythe Slip Stream 140 SM1425SL12H
Xion Alphawing AXP-GF140_WT
XSPC Xinruilian RDM1425S


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Not sure if this is off topic or whether you have an opinion on it, but what's the value and merit of advertised specifications? I have a CM Nepton 240M and although its pump is noisy and the Silencio fans at higher RPM's bring coil whine, it's cooling performance is good. I probably should have stuck to air, but whatever. Anyway...

I'm thinking of replacing the fans with Phanteks PH-F120MP for the white blades to better match my build aesthetically (Fractal case with all Fractal R2's). The specified dB is around the same, but the Silencio offers a much higher flow rate, speed and well over twice the static pressure. The specs are far superior, but was it rated a little enthusiastically and the Phanteks more realistically? Is static pressure and airflow even that important? The Nepton's radiator has a pretty dense fin array and is currently in pull configuration in exhaust to hide the fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngryGoldfish*
> 
> Not sure if this is off topic or whether you have an opinion on it, but what's the value and merit of advertised specifications? I have a CM Nepton 240M and although its pump is noisy and the Silencio fans at higher RPM's bring coil whine, it's cooling performance is good. I probably should have stuck to air, but whatever. Anyway...
> 
> I'm thinking of replacing the fans with Phanteks PH-F120MP for the white blades to better match my build aesthetically (Fractal case with all Fractal R2's). The specified dB is around the same, but the Silencio offers a much higher flow rate, speed and well over twice the static pressure. The specs are far superior, but was it rated a little enthusiastically and the Phanteks more realistically? Is static pressure and airflow even that important? The Nepton's radiator has a pretty dense fin array and is currently in pull configuration in exhaust to hide the fans.


I never pay attention to the manufacturers rated specs, specially the noise and airflow numbers. Everyone rate their product differently, use different equipment, or in case of dBA measurements, choose varying distance from where they put the microphone from the fan.

Some of them are more representative of the actual value, while others are often horrendously uprated to make the product look better than it actually is, for example Bitfenix Spectre Pro. Unless they are tested on even grounds with the same equipment and variables, then I don't see the reason in believing any of it, which is one of the reasons I started this thread.


----------



## doyll

Speaking of fan specs versus actual performance, here is the P-Q graph of several fans I added the 1.0mm H2O airflow numbers to show how real world use compares to specs.


And here is the temp & db(a) for120mm fan pull. Now miklkit can quit pouting.


----------



## miklkit

But now I have to find something else to complain about.







What I mostly do is play testing ya know.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Speaking of fan specs versus actual performance, here is the P-Q graph of several fans I added the 1.0mm H2O airflow numbers to show how real world use compares to specs.
> 
> 
> And here is the temp & db(a) for120mm fan pull. Now miklkit can quit pouting.


Very well done, I will eventually make a list like the second graph you made and include it.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #67 - Noctua NF-F12 IndustrialPPC-2000 IP67 PWM:





Here we are at the last NF-F12 that I'll be reviewing, because after this, I would have gone over all different models of the F12.

The most interesting aspect (at least in my opinion) about these fans are their IP67 rating, which means that the unit is dust proof and water proof up to a depth of 1 meter. More on how the rating works Here.

To be honest, the IP67 rating shouldn't be a factor in your purchasing decision but it's epic for bragging rights. As this is an industrial grade fan, it was primarily designed for operation in hostile environments, the fact that we can purchase it as an end user, is frankly a bonus. Being completely dustproof should help with reliability and durability in the long run. Did I mention it's backed up by a six year warranty?

Anyways, enough fangirling. At 30 bucks a pop, it's a hefty price for a fan. It is, however, justifiable given the technology that's packed into it. Only two fans from the Noctua line up will be available with the IP67 rating (for now at least), this and the NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 IP67 PWM. I suspect the reason they didn't create a IP67 certified 3000 RPM sku is because the seal wouldn't last that long due to increased friction.

The performance was pretty good, if a bit loud. The whining noise on pull was very annoying but that happens with every high performance fan I test so nothing out of the ordinary. I doubt anyone purchasing these would run them at maximum RPM for long. The PWM range is between 500 and 2000 RPM which is generous. It is practically inaudible at its lowest speed.

Being painted in black is a big bonus for those that like Noctua fans but dislike their traditional colors. I think this is the best F12 in the lineup. You get all the benefits from the original NF-F12 plus you get an all black paintjob (apart from the grommets), a very wide RPM range, and IP67. The last one is pretty important if you don't clean your system all that often. I really hope they improve upon this with a version utilizing all black wires. Come on Noctua, you can make this perfect.


----------



## doyll

@ miklkit
whine, whine, wine. Do you want some cheese with your wine?















@ Cyclops
Glad you like it. But it's way too time consuming to cut and paste two graphs.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm fan results have been updated at post #1. Much higher resolution photos were used this time so reading them will be easier.


----------



## miklkit

I like wine!
It makes me a jolly good fellow.
I like wine!
It makes me feel mellow.......









That is a very good chart for easily comparing different fans and the effort is appreciated.


----------



## Cyclops

Here's a prototype graph:



Putting both noise and temp measurements in one chart sure shows some stinkers like Bitfenix Spectre Pro, Enermax T.B. Silence, Spire Air Force, Prolimatech Red Vertex, Cougar CF-T12S, Phobya Nano-G 12, Aearocool Shark, Cooler Master Turbine Master, etc

It also shows the really good ones like Thermalright X-Silent 120, Noctua NF-F12/P12/F12, Bitfenix Spectre, Silverstone FM121, Apevia CF12S, Zalman ZM-F3, etc.

This is way more informative and I'll be changing the format of all the temperature and noise graphs to something similar.


----------



## epic1337

"sort by noise" please, i find that more informative since you can spot "noise floor groups" and pick the shortest red-stick in the bunch.


----------



## doyll

Either way is much better than single graph.








Of course sound is subjective. What sounds quieter to our ears is not always the lowest dbA.

Arctic Cooling F12 PWM, Arctic Cooling PWM CO, IPC Queen IPC-12025 and Yate Loom D12SM-12 do well to at higher speed .. and of course Gentle Typhoon AP-15 at full speed, but we don't have any specs for it at lower speed ....

To me the only things lacking are different RPM results for fans like AP-15.

I'm not complaining! You are doing a great job. But no matter how good it is there will always be someone (like me) wanting more.


----------



## epic1337

our ears are much more sensitive towards 1K Hz, and above 6K Hz is annoying, so yes "noise" is subjective.
i do think it'd be perfect if we had a mic-test to see at which frequency these noises are tuned.


----------



## sq_a380

Good job Cyclops.

However IMHO bar graphs are not a good representation of actual acoustic performance of a fan vs temps, as it only shows stats at max RPM/noise.

Beyond a certain RPM/temp, temp changes start to decrease per RPM/dba increase and this makes high RPM fans seemingly perform badly in the provided graphs.

The relationship is not linear and is better expressed through line graphs, such as those done by martinsliquidlab, but that would take much more effort and time to measure noise produced vs temperature/RPM/CFM.

Still a good rough guide to find out which fans are not worth buying.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sq_a380*
> 
> Good job Cyclops.
> 
> However IMHO bar graphs are not a good representation of actual acoustic performance of a fan vs temps, as it only shows stats at max RPM/noise.
> 
> Beyond a certain RPM/temp, temp changes start to decrease per RPM/dba increase and this makes high RPM fans seemingly perform badly in the provided graphs.
> 
> The relationship is not linear and is better expressed through line graphs, such as those done by martinsliquidlab, but that would take much more effort and time to measure noise produced vs temperature/RPM/CFM.
> 
> Still a good rough guide to find out which fans are not worth buying.


If there are several RPM reference points, like 4 volt, 6 volt, 8 volt 10 volt & 12volt or 20%, 40%, 60% 80% & 100% PWM with temp as well, than we have all the data needed .. be it in a bar graph or line graph.


----------



## sq_a380

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If there are several RPM reference points, like 4 volt, 6 volt, 8 volt 10 volt & 12volt or 20%, 40%, 60% 80% & 100% PWM with temp as well, than we have all the data needed .. be it in a bar graph or line graph.


Indeed for most purposes several reference points would suffice for more a accurate representation of the fan's performance. Bar or line might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but a line graph would allow for easier reading.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sq_a380*
> 
> Indeed for most purposes several reference points would suffice for more a accurate representation of the fan's performance. Bar or line might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but a line graph would allow for easier reading.


Five reference points give us enough to know how the fans perform from idle to full speed. Plot several reference points into a line graph of rpm to temp or rpm to dbA. Job done.

If you want more, how about doing it yourself?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, everybody wants the testing done the way they want, and mostly for good reason too. The fact is that testing fans is incredibly tedious work. I have no incentive to do it because I don't get paid for it and I do everything on my own. It is in fact, a passion project.


----------



## sq_a380

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Five reference points give us enough to know how the fans perform from idle to full speed. Plot several reference points into a line graph of rpm to temp or rpm to dbA. Job done.
> 
> If you want more, how about doing it yourself?


I would if I had the money, time and equipment









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*


I understand this fully, and what you've done is already a great help to our community.


----------



## Levelog

Any reason there are no Phanteks fans on there? I really like the SilverStone FM121's, but ~$25 a piece is a bit hard to choke down. The Phanteks F120MP's are a bit more affordable. Just dunno if they're not worth considering or something along those lines.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levelog*
> 
> Any reason there are no Phanteks fans on there? I really like the SilverStone FM121's, but ~$25 a piece is a bit hard to choke down. The Phanteks F120MP's are a bit more affordable. Just dunno if they're not worth considering or something along those lines.


I asked Phanteks for their line up. They might be sending me some samples soon.


----------



## Levelog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I asked Phanteks for their line up. They might be sending me some samples soon.


Cool! I hope they do!


----------



## Cyclops

Temperatures/Noise graph for Pull and Push/Pull results are here. Noise/Temperature graphs will be available soon.

 

I noticed there were a lot of mistakes on the original pull graph. Everything is fixed now.

PS: Man, that NF-P12 rocks, and that fan has been around for ages.


----------



## Cyclops

Noise graphs have been redone and updated at the first post.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #1 - Noctua NF-P14s redux-900:





I'm starting over with 140mm fans. It made sense at the time to make a dedicated test rig for them, but seeing as the dimension of both the 120 and 140 test system heatsinks are pretty much the same, I have decided to move everything onto the 120mm test rig to streamline the testing process. It will also be easier to compare their performance with the 120mm fans. I should note that due to their size, 140mm fans do enjoy a slight advantage over 120mm fans. They cover a wider area of the heatsink, getting closer to the full potential of the cooling system.

The NF-P14s redux 900 then. This blade design came to life a long time ago with the introduction of the NF-P14 (and NF-P12), of which there are numerous different models, varying in RPM, mounting options, and bearings. I still believe this is one of the very best pressure optimized designs that is on the market. No surprise then that it scored the highest noise to temperature ratio (Push/Pull) of any fan I've ever tested. The 900 RPM version is incredibly quiet and yet it moves enough air to match or exceed the performance of fans that are much louder.

I will be using these in my next build if I happen to have an option for 140mm radiators. I do prefer the higher RPM version though as I will have the ability to turn them down to an ear pleasing level. My only complaint is the cable and the braiding. I really want to see all black cables on these fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Almost midnight. Time to turn everything off and start decibel testing.


----------



## doyll

Closer to 03:00 here.


----------



## epic1337

it takes patience and money on giving these tests some success, i appreciate the work and effort.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #2 - Noctua NF-A14 PWM:





I'm in the process of testing a few dozens of 120 and 140mm fans which is why it's been quiet here lately. I just received a batch of fans from Phanteks which I will add to the queue. The next couple of weeks should be interesting so bear with me. The review then.

The NF-A14 PWM blade design is common with other A14 series fans such as NF-A14 FLX, NF-A14 ULN, and even the NF-A15 PWM. This model is the highest RPM version available and therefore is capable of moving a lot of air.

I was a bit disappointed with the pull performance as it was much louder than push. It is typical to see this trend however. The LNA kicks down the speed to ~1200 RPM which, in push, is very quiet, achieving an excellent noise to temperature rating.

SSO2 bearing is one of the best in the business so no surprises there. Recommended for push configurations.


----------



## doyll

I commend you for all your hard work. Testing all the fans you have is a lot of work.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I commend you for all your hard work. Testing all the fans you have is a lot of work.


Thanks







.


----------



## miklkit

Yes you have already helped me select case fans. Fans that have helped me get an AMD 8370 to 4.9 ghz stable on air straight out of the box.


----------



## doyll

Really looking forward to seeing how the Thermalright fans perform.


----------



## MicroCat

@Cyclops

Just want to send my kudos, admiration and appreciation for your efforts too! This a FANomenal resource.

And some interesting results - the 120mm Yate Loons still push above their price after, what, 5 decades of use. ;-) And, as you point out, how well the Noc P12 keeps swishing after all these years. It's still one of my favs. And one of the few PWMs that don't click when run at < 100%.

Look forward to your 140mm expansion. Hopefully you'll discover a quiet, efficient surprise or two. Not expecting 120mm quiet, but that would be nice. Again, my


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> @Cyclops
> 
> Just want to send my kudos, admiration and appreciation for your efforts too! This a FANomenal resource.
> 
> And some interesting results - the 120mm Yate Loons still push above their price after, what, 5 decades of use. ;-) And, as you point out, how well the Noc P12 keeps swishing after all these years. It's still one of my favs. And one of the few PWMs that don't click when run at < 100%.
> 
> Look forward to your 140mm expansion. Hopefully you'll discover a quiet, efficient surprise or two. Not expecting 120mm quiet, but that would be nice. Again, my










thanks.


----------



## stanleyko

In terms of the lowest possible noise for a heatsink fan would you choose nf-f12 or nf-p12.. originally i was going to buy the f12 but it seems to perform worse than the p12 and many other fans. And for a cheap but good performing case fan would you go with antec true quiet (not pro which is $10) or kingwin cf-012lb ($6). Do you think the true quiets on low will push enough air?

p.s thanks for the most comprehensive pc fan list on the internet, it really helped me narrow down the choices


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stanleyko*
> 
> In terms of the lowest possible noise for a heatsink fan would you choose nf-f12 or nf-p12.. originally i was going to buy the f12 but it seems to perform worse than the p12 and many other fans. And for a cheap but good performing case fan would you go with antec true quiet (not pro which is $10) or kingwin cf-012lb ($6). Do you think the true quiets on low will push enough air?
> 
> p.s thanks for the most comprehensive pc fan list on the internet, it really helped me narrow down the choices


I'd go with the P12s. They're on top of my list. For your second choice, I'd go with the Antec. They are more efficient.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #3 - Thermalright TR TY-147A:





The Thermalright TR TY-147A is almost identical to the TR TY-147 apart from the PWM RPM range which is 300-1300 RPM for the former and 900-1300 RPM for the latter. That makes the 147A a much more versatile choice if you're the kind of person that value silence over performance. Granted, at 300 RPM, it won't be moving much if any air, but the option is there.

The packaging is as basic as it gets. Recycled cardboard box and no accessories, not even screws, as they are primarily designed to be used on a heatsink. Note the 120mm mounting holes.

The performance was actually pretty good, matching NF-A14 (With LNA equipped) at the same noise level with better or equal airflow, which is quite a feat considering the NF-A14 is a very efficient design.

The braiding could use some improvement alongside colored cables which look out of place in 2015. OEM fans on some 20 dollar Rosewill/Antec cases come with all black cables.

The main problem today though is that these fans, alongside most of Thermalright products, suffer poor availability in North America. There are some products available through Amazon and some other retailers, but I couldn't find a TY-147A on sale anywhere. However, European customers enjoy a much better level of access to their products.


----------



## doyll

Glad you got it tested.

But the TY-147 is 650-1300rpm +/-10%, not 900rpm. The specs on the box are not correct.

Here is a PWM% to RPM graph of TY-140, TY-147, TY-143 & TY-147A


Performance compared to NF-A14 (and NF-A15) are as close to the same as testing multiple fans of same model. Well within +/-10%


The reason you cannot find any Thermalright TY-147A fans for sale. is because they are not yet available. While they are on the Macho Rev.B cooler. The TY-147 is still available, and as soon as they are all sold the TY-147A will take it's place.

Thermalright (not Thermaltake) are sold by Nan's Gaming Gear. They are the only USA seller
http://www.nansgaminggear.net/searchresults.asp?cat=1824

They sell on Amazon too.
http://www.amazon.com/TR-TY-147-140-noise-emission/dp/B00A4QB4SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427459687&sr=8-1&keywords=ty-147


----------



## Newbie2009

Recommend me 120mm radiator fans please. Best performing quiet fans as of now?


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Recommend me 120mm radiator fans please. Best performing quiet fans as of now?


check the list, NF-P12 performs best in push/pull config, but i'd go with CF-V12HB Vortex due to price.

edit: my baseline is <40dB.


----------



## FrostByghte

@Cyclops, please allow me to pick your brain on this setup a bit.







I am plagued with one of those low air flow (without mods) NZTX H630 cases. Bit of history...I have had this setup running for 2 or 3 years now but my wife is somewhat tired of me running it with the front panel and side panel off. Originally when I purchased the case, I thought I would combat the low airflow with the following:

2x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-20025W-RP Spectre Pro 200mm mounted in front (intake/highly restricted)
2x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-20025W-RP Spectre Pro 200mm mounted on top (exhaust/highly restricted)
2x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-14025W-RP Spectre Pro 140mm mounted on bottom (intake/somewhat restricted)
1x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-14025W-RP Spectre Pro 140mm mounted rear (exhaust/no restriction)

That never really worked though because the front panel is a terrible design and overly restrictive. Additionally the system sits so low the bottom panels are somewhat restricted as well. The top panel is also restrictive. I really wasn't thinking about static pressure or anything when I selected these fans. I was just thinking pretty...ooooh and they had some good cfm ratings and reviews.

The case allows for the following configurations:

Front 2 x 200 or 2 x 140 or 3 x 120mm
Top 2 x 200 or 2 x 140 or 3 x 120mm
Rear 1 x 140/120mm
Bottom 2 x 140/120mm

So my first bit of work is some slight modding in order to get better airflow, plus 24/7 running some of the fans are showing some age. I plan to raise the system up a few inches off the floor to help with the bottom section, perhaps cut out another side vent in the front panel or just open the front panel up completely and raise the top panel about 1/2 inch up which seems to allow some decent flow out of the case.

NOW...in the interest of just pursuing what is THE BEST...I thought I would ask you, if sound (not a concern within reason ie: no car radiator fans) and $$$ are not really an object, what would you select for this system? I've looked at the OP but in reading this thread there still appears to be some give and take on what would be considered optimum in certain configurations.


----------



## stanleyko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'd go with the P12s. They're on top of my list. For your second choice, I'd go with the Antec. They are more efficient.


Okay thanks i just ordered some p12s for my heatsink... I'm suprised how much better they perform than the f12s considering noctua says the f12 was designed for heatsink use. One last thing do the antecs on low move enough air for a case fan intake and exhaust (2 intake 1 exhaust)? I'm worried that they dont and the "high" setting will be too noisy. The kingwins seem to be right in the middle in terms of rpm and cooling, and they seem to be slightly more efficient than the antecs set at low.

edit: I was thinking about buying the true quiet not the true quiet pro.. Does any know the difference between the 2? One is $10 the other is $30 but i can't find anything different about the 2. The db ratings on antec website are almost the same with the pro version actually being slightly louder on low??


----------



## Puunh

"Fan Man" is a very suiting title for you


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Glad you got it tested.
> 
> But the TY-147 is 650-1300rpm +/-10%, not 900rpm. The specs on the box are not correct.
> 
> Here is a PWM% to RPM graph of TY-140, TY-147, TY-143 & TY-147A
> 
> 
> Performance compared to NF-A14 (and NF-A15) are as close to the same as testing multiple fans of same model. Well within +/-10%
> 
> 
> The reason you cannot find any Thermalright TY-147A fans for sale. is because they are not yet available. While they are on the Macho Rev.B cooler. The TY-147 is still available, and as soon as they are all sold the TY-147A will take it's place.
> 
> Thermalright (not Thermaltake) are sold by Nan's Gaming Gear. They are the only USA seller
> http://www.nansgaminggear.net/searchresults.asp?cat=1824
> 
> They sell on Amazon too.
> http://www.amazon.com/TR-TY-147-140-noise-emission/dp/B00A4QB4SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427459687&sr=8-1&keywords=ty-147


Thanks. Some good info there. I've never tested the TY-147 so I didn't know about the RPM range.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Recommend me 120mm radiator fans please. Best performing quiet fans as of now?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> check the list, NF-P12 performs best in push/pull config, but i'd go with CF-V12HB Vortex due to price.
> 
> edit: my baseline is <40dB.


Yep, can't really beat the P12.

The problem with CF-V12HB is that the sleeve bearing is noisy when the fan is oriented in a horizontal position. i.e. when placed on top or bottom of the chassis.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrostByghte*
> 
> @Cyclops, please allow me to pick your brain on this setup a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am plagued with one of those low air flow (without mods) NZTX H630 cases. Bit of history...I have had this setup running for 2 or 3 years now but my wife is somewhat tired of me running it with the front panel and side panel off. Originally when I purchased the case, I thought I would combat the low airflow with the following:
> 
> 2x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-20025W-RP Spectre Pro 200mm mounted in front (intake/highly restricted)
> 2x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-20025W-RP Spectre Pro 200mm mounted on top (exhaust/highly restricted)
> 2x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-14025W-RP Spectre Pro 140mm mounted on bottom (intake/somewhat restricted)
> 1x BitFenix BFF-LPRO-14025W-RP Spectre Pro 140mm mounted rear (exhaust/no restriction)
> 
> That never really worked though because the front panel is a terrible design and overly restrictive. Additionally the system sits so low the bottom panels are somewhat restricted as well. The top panel is also restrictive. I really wasn't thinking about static pressure or anything when I selected these fans. I was just thinking pretty...ooooh and they had some good cfm ratings and reviews.
> 
> The case allows for the following configurations:
> 
> Front 2 x 200 or 2 x 140 or 3 x 120mm
> Top 2 x 200 or 2 x 140 or 3 x 120mm
> Rear 1 x 140/120mm
> Bottom 2 x 140/120mm
> 
> So my first bit of work is some slight modding in order to get better airflow, plus 24/7 running some of the fans are showing some age. I plan to raise the system up a few inches off the floor to help with the bottom section, perhaps cut out another side vent in the front panel or just open the front panel up completely and raise the top panel about 1/2 inch up which seems to allow some decent flow out of the case.
> 
> NOW...in the interest of just pursuing what is THE BEST...I thought I would ask you, if sound (not a concern within reason ie: no car radiator fans) and $$$ are not really an object, what would you select for this system? I've looked at the OP but in reading this thread there still appears to be some give and take on what would be considered optimum in certain configurations.


Well, I can tell you that Spectre Pro line of products are amongst the worst fans I've tested. The manufacturers specs are basically a lie and it's only selling because of its looks, not performance.

Generally, the larger the fans, the more air they move at lower dBA at the cost of static pressure. 140mm fans is what I would go with as I haven't tested any 200mm fans. NF-P14 (1200 RPM version) and NF-A14 are pretty good choices as well as TR TY-147(A). Either of them will do a much better job than the Spectre Pros.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stanleyko*
> 
> Okay thanks i just ordered some p12s for my heatsink... I'm suprised how much better they perform than the f12s considering noctua says the f12 was designed for heatsink use. One last thing do the antecs on low move enough air for a case fan intake and exhaust (2 intake 1 exhaust)? I'm worried that they dont and the "high" setting will be too noisy. The kingwins seem to be right in the middle in terms of rpm and cooling, and they seem to be slightly more efficient than the antecs set at low.
> 
> edit: I was thinking about buying the true quiet not the true quiet pro.. Does any know the difference between the 2? One is $10 the other is $30 but i can't find anything different about the 2. The db ratings on antec website are almost the same with the pro version actually being slightly louder on low??


There are two different fans with different blade designs. I've never tested the base version so I wouldn't know how good it might be. The Pro at 1200 RPM is virtually silent and you don't need to turn it down to 600 RPM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puunh*
> 
> "Fan Man" is a very suiting title for you


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i'd go with CF-V12HB Vortex due to price.


I have one of those. It's okay, nothing special.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i'd go with CF-V12HB Vortex due to price.
> 
> 
> 
> I have one of those. It's okay, nothing special.
Click to expand...

yup but tests says its about 1.5c delta hotter than NF-P12 and is 1dB noisier, it costs half so hell worth it.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> yup but tests says its about 1.5c delta hotter than NF-P12 and is 1dB noisier, it costs half so hell worth it.


I've done a side-by-side test of my CF-V12H and my NF-P12 and the difference that jumped out at me was the *tone* of the motor noise more than the volume. The Noctua has a silky motor sound which is very easy on the ears. The Cougar's motor sounds harsh and shrill by comparison even though it's probably not much louder. I wish there was something like a "harshness index" to rate fan noise, though I know that would be highly subjective and not strictly scientific.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Thermalright (not Thermaltake) are sold by Nan's Gaming Gear. They are the only USA seller
> http://www.nansgaminggear.net/searchresults.asp?cat=1824
> 
> They sell on Amazon too.
> http://www.amazon.com/TR-TY-147-140-noise-emission/dp/B00A4QB4SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427459687&sr=8-1&keywords=ty-147


Thanks for the links, but only one seller means they have no price competition. Noctua can be found at the same cost or even less. And in Canada, Thermalright gets the NoiseBlocker nosebleed luxury pricing level - they're nearly twice the cost of the Noctua equivalent!

Thermalright is a much better value in Europe, right? I was looking at the new, supposedly affordable, Silver Arrow ITX for a small build and it's $94.95US!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Thanks for the links, but only one seller means they have no price competition. Noctua can be found at the same cost or even less. And in Canada, Thermalright gets the NoiseBlocker nosebleed luxury pricing level - they're nearly twice the cost of the Noctua equivalent!
> 
> Thermalright is a much better value in Europe, right? I was looking at the new, supposedly affordable, Silver Arrow ITX for a small build and it's $94.95US!


I don't know about cheaper, but the price is lower.







TY-143 are £6.99 delivered including 20% tax.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B009QGHQ1K/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1427508979&sr=8-1&keywords=ty-143&condition=new

TY-147 for £7.85. Price has gone up on these by £2.00 in last couple of months.
http://www.pcnation.co.uk/product.aspx?id=15664&af=11

Alternate sells throughout Europe
http://www.alternate.co.uk/html/search.html?query=thermalright&x=0&y=0


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> yup but tests says its about 1.5c delta hotter than NF-P12 and is 1dB noisier, it costs half so hell worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> I've done a side-by-side test of my CF-V12H and my NF-P12 and the difference that jumped out at me was the *tone* of the motor noise more than the volume. The Noctua has a silky motor sound which is very easy on the ears. The Cougar's motor sounds harsh and shrill by comparison even though it's probably not much louder. I wish there was something like a "harshness index" to rate fan noise, though I know that would be highly subjective and not strictly scientific.
Click to expand...

true, its what you get when going cheap.

and the noise profile is most likely due to the sleeve bearing.

as for the "harshness index" i think a simple frequency resonance point is the easiest to go with, people find higher frequencies more annoying.

does anyone know what RPM does Gentle Typhoon 4850RPM/5400RPM run at when operated at 5v~7v?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> I've done a side-by-side test of my CF-V12H and my NF-P12 and the difference that jumped out at me was the *tone* of the motor noise more than the volume. The Noctua has a silky motor sound which is very easy on the ears. The Cougar's motor sounds harsh and shrill by comparison even though it's probably not much louder. I wish there was something like a "harshness index" to rate fan noise, though I know that would be highly subjective and not strictly scientific.


Agreed. Noc's 120mm have the least tonal effects I've heard. Up to about 1100 rpm - then turbulence will start favouring frequencies. But at least their bearings don't join the chorus.

Could use some spectrum analysis software to create an 'objective' assessments, or at least a starting point. Because of the nature of our audio perception, it's difficult to represent with enough visual detail to get a clear 'picture'. We'd need 50+megapixel monitors to display the detail we can hear. SCPR posts basic spectrum results of their fan tests - the gross peaks are clearly visible from the bad fans. They also posts recordings, however, they're mono and don't give a very realistic 'in-case, in-room' perspective. All fans in their recordings sound much worse to me that they do live. Live fans are better! A few much better than others;-)

And the other issue is clicking when fans are undervolted - that's a tricky one to auto-document. A recording will reveal it tho.

With other variables, including our personal perceptions and preference - context is important. Each case with a different set of components, damping and airflow in a different environment is a different use case. The work, our man, the fan man, has compiled gives us a baseline in one place to begin fanning out our own options. Sorry, can't help but fan the flames for pun.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I don't know about cheaper, but the price is lower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TY-143 are £6.99 delivered including 20% tax.
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B009QGHQ1K/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1427508979&sr=8-1&keywords=ty-143&condition=new
> 
> TY-147 for £7.85. Price has gone up on these by £2.00 in last couple of months.
> http://www.pcnation.co.uk/product.aspx?id=15664&af=11
> 
> Alternate sells throughout Europe
> http://www.alternate.co.uk/html/search.html?query=thermalright&x=0&y=0


With the exchange rates those are a great deal compared to the Noc 140s. If I bought enough T147s it could almost pay for a European vacation this year. Forget about the next itx build, I'll build a XL-sized case only from TY147s. Talk about positive pressure...;-)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> With the exchange rates those are a great deal compared to the Noc 140s. If I bought enough T147s it could almost pay for a European vacation this year. Forget about the next itx build, I'll build a XL-sized case only from TY147s. Talk about positive pressure...;-)


Great performance at a great price makes them my go-to fan of choice for many years now. My only complaint is the lack of a square version .. needed for some applications.


I have modded them to 141x141mm .. easily done with a good saw.


And made adapter corner pieces


----------



## FrostByghte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Well, I can tell you that Spectre Pro line of products are amongst the worst fans I've tested. The manufacturers specs are basically a lie and it's only selling because of its looks, not performance.
> 
> Generally, the larger the fans, the more air they move at lower dBA at the cost of static pressure. 140mm fans is what I would go with as I haven't tested any 200mm fans. NF-P14 (1200 RPM version) and NF-A14 are pretty good choices as well as TR TY-147(A). Either of them will do a much better job than the Spectre Pros.


Thank you much for the feedback.


----------



## KuuFA

Any thoughts about this Cyclops?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200105

I have no idea about the TNB type bering....

They are quite ugly but I thought I would give them a try.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KuuFA*
> 
> Any thoughts about this Cyclops?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200105
> 
> I have no idea about the TNB type bering....
> 
> They are quite ugly but I thought I would give them a try.


You know you're missing out on life when you don't have Teflon Nano Bearing in your fans. I don't know honestly, they could be a flop or be the next best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You know you're missing out on life when you don't have Teflon Nano Bearing in your fans. I don't know honestly, they could be a flop or be the next best thing since sliced bread.


I have no idea how many different marketing names there are for various sleeve bearing fans, but it must be hundreds.


----------



## KuuFA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You know you're missing out on life when you don't have Teflon Nano Bearing in your fans. I don't know honestly, they could be a flop or be the next best thing since sliced bread.


I need this to complete my life cyclops.... must have TNB fans all round......







They are also water resistant just in case I spill any bodily fluids on them if you know what i mean.









anyway I was just checking to see if you guys knew anything about them lol.


----------



## Puunh

t
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KuuFA*
> 
> I need this to complete my life cyclops.... must have TNB fans all round......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are also water resistant just in case I spill any bodily fluids on them if you know what i mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anyway I was just checking to see if you guys knew anything about them lol.


I'm not sure if I know what you mean.. But the thought I got was much more disturbing than a dead body


----------



## Mads1

have you anything on the Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 PWM - 120mm and Parvum Systems F1.0 Performance Pressure Optimised Fan, im looking to get these and wondered if there any good.


----------



## FrostByghte

@Cyclops and anyone that might be interested. I decided to contact Thermalright about the Thermalright TY-147A availability in the USA. My question to Thermalright support appears to have been forwarded to a Nan's Gaming Gear. The reply from Thomas at Nan's was:
Quote:


> We are posting it to Amazon marketplace. Please wait.....
> It may takes a week to be available at Amazon.


So just a FYI. I went looking for the TY-147A because well...color wise it is a good match for what I am after and I generally like to go with a newer model if at all possible. So for anyone looking for this model in the USA, hopefully it will show up this week or next.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrostByghte*
> 
> @Cyclops and anyone that might be interested. I decided to contact Thermalright about the Thermalright TY-147A availability in the USA. My question to Thermalright support appears to have been forwarded to a Nan's Gaming Gear. The reply from Thomas at Nan's was:
> So just a FYI. I went looking for the TY-147A because well...color wise it is a good match for what I am after and I generally like to go with a newer model if at all possible. So for anyone looking for this model in the USA, hopefully it will show up this week or next.


Thanks!








I like using both; TY-147 on cooler and TY-147A on case. Using same PWM signal the case fans spin slowier than cooler during most of rpm range.


----------



## DNMock

So question, are you gonna get better noise : CFM ratios using multiple 120mm fans or fewer 180mm fans. I believe 9 120mm fans cover the same amount of surface area as 4 180mm fans.

Radiator fans are starved for air atm, and unfortunately the Radiator housings are built into it so reversing the flow on those fans would either force me to do a pull only set up instead of a push or look like butt.

Adding some intake fans would be a heck of a lot easier to pull off.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DNMock*
> 
> So question, are you gonna get better noise : CFM ratios using multiple 120mm fans or fewer 180mm fans. I believe 9 120mm fans cover the same amount of surface area as 4 180mm fans.
> 
> Radiator fans are starved for air atm, and unfortunately the Radiator housings are built into it so reversing the flow on those fans would either force me to do a pull only set up instead of a push or look like butt.
> 
> Adding some intake fans would be a heck of a lot easier to pull off.


Depends on the fan. I don't know much about 180mm fans as there are so few of them out there.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DNMock*
> 
> So question, are you gonna get better noise : CFM ratios using multiple 120mm fans or fewer 180mm fans. I believe 9 120mm fans cover the same amount of surface area as 4 180mm fans.
> 
> Radiator fans are starved for air atm, and unfortunately the Radiator housings are built into it so reversing the flow on those fans would either force me to do a pull only set up instead of a push or look like butt.
> 
> Adding some intake fans would be a heck of a lot easier to pull off.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the fan. I don't know much about 180mm fans as there are so few of them out there.
Click to expand...

most 180mm~200mm fans have too low RPM (below 1500rpm), which limits their pressure to almost negligible levels.
in which case they always results to having very little value on uses other than intake fans with low-density filters/grills.


----------



## DNMock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> most 180mm~200mm fans have too low RPM (below 1500rpm), which limits their pressure to almost negligible levels.
> in which case they always results to having very little value on uses other than intake fans with low-density filters/grills.


Coincidentally that's what I'm lookin for, just straight up intake fans.

and comically enough on my rads I have the exception to the rule you just stated, the AP181 and 182 fans which are monsters.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #4 - Corsair A1425L12S OEM:





I don't remember which Corsair case I grabbed these off of, but they are all pretty much the same. I don't think these fans are available for individual sale as they are OEM only, but they are basically the same design as the AF140 with inferior bearings and simpler construction.

Performance was decent and they were moderately quiet. As far as aesthetics go, they are much better looking than a lot of other commercially available products, specially in little areas like cable color.


----------



## BoredErica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> most 180mm~200mm fans have too low RPM (below 1500rpm), which limits their pressure to almost negligible levels.
> in which case they always results to having very little value on uses other than intake fans with low-density filters/grills.


The NZXT Phantom case uses 200mm fans as outtakes up top and I think it works.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkwizzie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> most 180mm~200mm fans have too low RPM (below 1500rpm), which limits their pressure to almost negligible levels.
> 
> in which case they always results to having very little value on uses other than intake fans with low-density filters/grills.
> 
> 
> 
> The NZXT Phantom case uses 200mm fans as outtakes up top and I think it works.
Click to expand...

maybe, it just needs to be unrestricted, density of grill/filters will hinder it's airflow a lot, considering it's pressure is very small.


----------



## digitally

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> most 180mm~200mm fans have too low RPM (below 1500rpm), which limits their pressure to almost negligible levels.
> in which case they always results to having very little value on uses other than intake fans with low-density filters/grills.


I had nzxt 200mm fans in my Phantom 630 and they're not pushing much air as compared to bifenix 200mm, however when you have silverstone ap fans it's a whole different thing. Those silverstones are massive air pushers. And this thread needs to have 180-200mm fans comparison.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digitally*
> 
> I had nzxt 200mm fans in my Phantom 630 and they're not pushing much air as compared to bifenix 200mm, however when you have silverstone ap fans it's a whole different thing. Those silverstones are massive air pushers. And this thread needs to have 180-200mm fans comparison.


Sure, find me a heatsink I can do push/pull with 200mm fans







. And don't say Scythe Susanoo because you can't do P/P on it.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *digitally*
> 
> I had nzxt 200mm fans in my Phantom 630 and they're not pushing much air as compared to bifenix 200mm, however when you have silverstone ap fans it's a whole different thing. Those silverstones are massive air pushers. And this thread needs to have 180-200mm fans comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, find me a heatsink I can do push/pull with 200mm fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And don't say Scythe Susanoo because you can't do P/P on it.
Click to expand...

how about this?
http://www.overclock.net/products/phobya-xtreme-200mm-radiator


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> how about this?
> http://www.overclock.net/products/phobya-xtreme-200mm-radiator


I need a heatsink, not a radiator. Can't have a loop. Pump generates noise, liquid might degrade causing thermal inconsistency, plus no test bench supports 200mm fans.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #5 - Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM





Pretty much everything I said about the NF-F12 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM apply here so I won't be regurgitating it. To sum up, they move a ton of air, are very loud, and have a surprisingly tight RPM window which makes the sound just that little bit more tolerable.

Overall, you either need extreme performance or just don't care about noise if you're thinking about buying these fans. It is PWM controlled, however, with an advertised minimum RPM of 800, so theoretically, you can turn them down to near silent levels.


----------



## doyll

From what I've read the NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-3000 PWM and TY-143 perform the same up to 2500rpm. I've used TY-143 in several builds now and knowing they are near silent from idle up to about 1000-1100rpm depending on if in a case or on bench test station.

As a comparison, they sound the same as TY-147A you tested at same RPM. Does the NF-A14 IPPC 3000 PWM sound the below 1300rpm?


----------



## MicroCat

@Cyclops
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Does the NF-A14 IPPC 3000 PWM sound the below 1300rpm?


Don't answer this. It's a trick question. The only safe is answer is: Nothing.


----------



## Cyclops

I didn't try lowering the fan speed to be honest.


----------



## super kermit

Slim thin 120mm fans behind the MB on a Corsair 900D

*Looking to put some fans on the CPU and Plex chip side of the MB.*

I have the holes cut into the case and need 120mm fans (that is the size of my drill bit)

Any thoughts please?

I was looking at thin fans to give clearance to the cables and still fit in behind the motherboard.


----------



## Blacklac

Any decent, not too loud, 92mm fans for an exhaust? I just upgraded my Mom's PC with some of my old 775 parts I had and her rear exhaust fan sounds like its bearing is shot.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blacklac*
> 
> Any decent, not too loud, 92mm fans for an exhaust? I just upgraded my Mom's PC with some of my old 775 parts I had and her rear exhaust fan sounds like its bearing is shot.


Noctua NF-F9 PWM or FLX.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #6 & #7 - Noctua NF-P14s redux-1200/1500 PWM:







There are multiple versions of the NF-P14S redux available. I personally prefer the 1200 RPM version. You can dial these down to around 1000 RPM and make them almost silent.

Typical Noctua fit and finish, excellent bearings, and an amazing blade design. The P12 is my favorite 120mm fan and it's about time they get a redux remake. Now if they would just use black cables....


----------



## MicroCat

@Cyclops
Did you notice any clickiness when the P14s 1500rpm PWM models were spinning under 1000rpm? Received a pair that clicked like they were auditioning for a clave band. Sent them back. Not sure if I want to redux the Redux now.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> @Cyclops
> Did you notice any clickiness when the P14s 1500rpm PWM models were spinning under 1000rpm? Received a pair that clicked like they were auditioning for a clave band. Sent them back. Not sure if I want to redux the Redux now.


I didn't test those bellow 1500. Redux models have 3-pin and PWM versions.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

This is said with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, but I do sometimes wonder whether Noctua deliberately built their fans with strange colours so that they wouldn't sell a thousand fans a day and not being able to keep up.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngryGoldfish*
> 
> This is said with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, but I do sometimes wonder whether Noctua deliberately built their fans with strange colours so that they wouldn't sell a thousand fans a day and not being able to keep up.


Or it's more devious than that. If they had created the same fans but with more mainstream colours, they probably would not have gotten as much attention and success. There's no such thing as bad PR. ;-)

Or...they actually really like the chocolate and cream theme. I must admit it has grown on me over the years. And even from a crappy cellphone pic everyone can see whether you're running Nocs or not. It's distinctive - and in a crowded market, distinctive can win you many fans.









The Redux is a brilliant strategy too - Now you can get the 'legendary' Noctua performance without the 'legendary' Noctua looks!

There's another, IMO even more fugly colour scheme, but great fan, the GT. It has many near religious fans of it's battleship grey and black.


Always wished that Senn would throw in a pair of P12s with every pair of HD598s. ;-)


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> *Or it's more devious than that. If they had created the same fans but with more mainstream colours, they probably would not have gotten as much attention and success. There's no such thing as bad PR. ;-)*
> 
> Or...they actually really like the chocolate and cream theme. I must admit it has grown on me over the years. And even from a crappy cellphone pic everyone can see whether you're running Nocs or not. It's distinctive - and in a crowded market, distinctive can win you many fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Redux is a brilliant strategy too - Now you can get the 'legendary' Noctua performance without the 'legendary' Noctua looks!
> 
> There's another, IMO even more fugly colour scheme, but great fan, the GT. It has many near religious fans of it's battleship grey and black.
> 
> 
> Always wished that Senn would throw in a pair of P12s with every pair of HD598s. ;-)


Aha! Yes!









I actually LOVE the colours personally. The only problem is, no one else makes hardware that goes with them.







If ASUS made brown and tan motherboards, eVGA made brown and tan graphics cards, Seasonic made brown and tan power supplies and Fractal made brown and tan cases, I would 100% have a system like that. I remember seeing this Fractal Define R4 painted to match the the tan brackets on the fans, and it works. Match it with the right cabling and a few other accents and you're away.



I also really love the GT grey fins, but again, not many people make grey components. The Corsair fans with the rings are so popular because they can be colour-coordinated.


----------



## MicroCat

Since Be!Quiet is into the case market, why not Noctua?

Now with free delivery and setup!



Sorry, @Cyclops, we're derailing you're awesome thread with off colour images. The last one is air-cooled, so it's sorta on topic. I'll lay off the visual puns now. That's my quota for the month.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

They're letting the hype build. We'll see Noctua SSD's and Titan's in no time at all.


----------



## trodas

I would have a suggestion for fan to test - *Thermalright TY-141*








As I seen it, it is 140mm fan with lower noise that Noctua NF-P14 fan, yet with more CFM and IIRC air pressure









Simply spoken, replacing Noctua NF-P14 with Thermalright TY-141 yields better cooling results, witch is why I would suggest to include it in the tests


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trodas*
> 
> I would have a suggestion for fan to test - *Thermalright TY-141*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I seen it, it is 140mm fan with lower noise that Noctua NF-P14 fan, yet with more CFM and IIRC air pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply spoken, replacing Noctua NF-P14 with Thermalright TY-141 yields better cooling results, witch is why I would suggest to include it in the tests


It maybe a better fan, but what a horrible colour combo.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trodas*
> 
> I would have a suggestion for fan to test - *Thermalright TY-141*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I seen it, it is 140mm fan with lower noise that Noctua NF-P14 fan, yet with more CFM and IIRC air pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply spoken, replacing Noctua NF-P14 with Thermalright TY-141 yields better cooling results, witch is why I would suggest to include it in the tests


Seen where? Spec sheets? I don't pay attention to those. They're often inaccurate or tailored to suit the manufacturer. I actually have two of them and tested them on the old test bench. I've yet to retest them on the new one.

PS: The fan I tested was the TY-150, which is the up-scaled version of TY-141.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AngryGoldfish*


That's as clean as a system you can build with air/water cooling and nicely done too. Only thing I would do different is turn the rear exhaust into an intake and put a magnetic fan filter behind it. 4 intakes and 2 exhausts is a much better solution to keep the dust at bay.


----------



## doyll

The TY-150 is not a "up-scaled version" of the TY-141. The TY-150 is a 150mm fan and the TY-141 is a 140mm fan. TY-150 is also twice as loud as TY-141, or other TY-14x series fans at 1300rpm.

TY-150
Dimension : L170 mm x H153 mm x W25.5 mm
Weight : 180g
Speed : 500~1100RPM (PWM)
Sound Level : 22 - 34 dB(A)
Airflow : 38.2 - 84.2 CFM

TY-141
Dimension : L152 mm x H140 mm x W26.5 mm
Weight : 175g
Speed : 900 - 1300 rpm (PWM) _Actually idles at 650rpm_
Sound Level : 17 - 21 dB(A)
Airflow : 28.3 - 73.6 CFM


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trodas*
> 
> I would have a suggestion for fan to test - *Thermalright TY-141*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I seen it, it is 140mm fan with lower noise that Noctua NF-P14 fan, yet with more CFM and IIRC air pressure


I haven't tried a Noctua NF-P14, but I do have both Noctua NF-A14 FLX and TY-141, and I've tested them side-by-side on a tabletop at different voltages, and also in a computer case with a controller, and the Noctua is clearly quieter at all voltages. The TY-141 is a good fan, just not as good as the NF-A14 FLX.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> I haven't tried a Noctua NF-P14, but I do have both Noctua NF-A14 FLX and TY-141, and I've tested them side-by-side on a tabletop at different voltages, and also in a computer case with a controller, and the Noctua is clearly quieter at all voltages. The TY-141 is a good fan, just not as good as the NF-A14 FLX.


Is this sound meter reading or how the sound to your ears? Both are valid. Fans can have same dBA reading with one sounding different/louder to our ears. I think the TY-141 sounds different than the other TY-14x series fans .. logical as TY-141 has different blade design. The TY-143 has a slightly different sound too .. logical as it has ball bearings and others don't.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Is this sound meter reading or how the sound to your ears? Both are valid. Fans can have same dBA reading with one sounding different/louder to our ears. I think the TY-141 sounds different than the other TY-14x series fans .. logical as TY-141 has different blade design. The TY-143 has a slightly different sound too .. logical as it has ball bearings and others don't.


Just an unscientific ear test.


----------



## doyll

What we hear is really what is important .. not whether it is "scientifically" louder or not.

Kinda like dB(A) readings compared to what we hear.
50dB(A) is 100 times as much power as 30dB,
but only sounds 4 times as loud to our ears.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What we hear is really what is important .. not whether it is "scientifically" louder or not.
> 
> Kinda like dB(A) readings compared to what we hear.
> 50dB(A) is 100 times as much power as 30dB,
> but only sounds 4 times as loud to our ears.


I totally agree. Tonal characteristics trump volume IMO. When we say we want a "quiet" fan, what we really mean is we want a fan that is sonically unobtrusive, and that any noise we do hear should not be harsh or unpleasant to our ears. The perceptual facilities of the human ear and brain have more to do with that than dB readings.


----------



## curly haired boy

Anyone know how the EK vardars perform? GTs are generally considered the best, but I can't find them anywhere...


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> That's as clean as a system you can build with air/water cooling and nicely done too. Only thing I would do different is turn the rear exhaust into an intake and put a magnetic fan filter behind it. 4 intakes and 2 exhausts is a much better solution to keep the dust at bay.


I agree. And for once, I also think Noctua fans look better when positioned as intakes. Their 'upside down' side is better looking. I personally have equal pressure with 3x140's intaking and 3x120's exhausting. The reason I think this is equal pressure is because the front two intakes do not receive a great deal of pressure due to the silent construction of the Define R4. The two 120's on my AIO radiator are set to pull so are also restricted in their exhausting abilities. I'd rather have the rear exhaust as an intake, but it would look gammy.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> Anyone know how the EK vardars perform? GTs are generally considered the best, but I can't find them anywhere...


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001Q6RUVO/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2UX1Q3IN4TG2S

Get them quickly. They may be the last of the stock.

*apologies if linking Amazon is banned


----------



## Cyclops

Wouldn't mind if EK sent me some samples.


----------



## superstition222

Maybe this has already been asked but I noticed that none of the 140mm fans you tested fared as well as the best 120mm fans. This seems odd because one would think that, by now, 140mm fans have matured to the point where they can take advantage of their larger surface area. Do you think there may be something about your testing methodology that may favor 120mm fans, such as the shape and size of the CPU cooler you're using, the airflow characteristics of the test setup, and so on? Or, do you think the larger dead spot in a 140mm fan is a bigger detriment than anything else?

The highest performing air coolers seem to be those with 140mm fans. Is that a case of the larger fin area compensating or are they just noisier for whatever amount of cooling they provide?

The other issue is the horizontal performance of sleeve fans. Testing sleeve bearing fans and their descendents with a downblowing cooler (like a Gemini or an AIO mounted to the top exhaust) may expose weaknesses that won't be found when using a conventional tower air cooler.

I am seriously considering custom building a case that uses a box fan for cooling. Fans keep multiplying like rabbits in rigs. Fans for chipset VRMs. Fans for RAM. Fans for GPU VRMs. Fans for this, fans for that. Radiators with 18 Noctuas on just one. It seems like just brute forcing the area with a huge box fan may be the way to go, to keep there from being a lot of competing airflow paths and hot spots. I don't really have the budget for buying a lot of little fans at $25 a pop.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Maybe this has already been asked but I noticed that none of the 140mm fans you tested fared as well as the best 120mm fans. This seems odd because one would think that, by now, 140mm fans have matured to the point where they can take advantage of their larger surface area. Do you think there may be something about your testing methodology that may favor 120mm fans, such as the shape and size of the CPU cooler you're using, the airflow characteristics of the test setup, and so on? Or, do you think the larger dead spot in a 140mm fan is a bigger detriment than anything else?


Noctua NF-P14s redux-900 already has the best noise to temp rating of any fan I've tested and it's a 140mm product.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Noctua NF-P14s redux-900 already has the best noise to temp rating of any fan I've tested and it's a 140mm product.


Not to mention other 140mm fans like TY-147A with almost identical performance.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Noctua NF-P14s redux-900 already has the best noise to temp rating of any fan I've tested and it's a 140mm product.


Interesting. I guess I missed the post with those results. It must have been a lot further in. All of the 140mm reviews I saw showed a worse ratio. Good to know that there is at least one good 140mm fan.


----------



## doyll

quote name="superstition222" url="/t/1274407/fans-the-most-complete-and-comprehensive-array-of-tests-and-benchmarks/940_20#post_23840453"]Maybe this has already been asked but I noticed that none of the 140mm fans you tested fared as well as the best 120mm fans. This seems odd because one would think that, by now, 140mm fans have matured to the point where they can take advantage of their larger surface area. Do you think there may be something about your testing methodology that may favor 120mm fans, such as the shape and size of the CPU cooler you're using, the airflow characteristics of the test setup, and so on? Or, do you think the larger dead spot in a 140mm fan is a bigger detriment than anything else?

The highest performing air coolers seem to be those with 140mm fans. Is that a case of the larger fin area compensating or are they just noisier for whatever amount of cooling they provide?

The other issue is the horizontal performance of sleeve fans. Testing sleeve bearing fans and their descendents with a downblowing cooler (like a Gemini or an AIO mounted to the top exhaust) may expose weaknesses that won't be found when using a conventional tower air cooler.

I am seriously considering custom building a case that uses a box fan for cooling. Fans keep multiplying like rabbits in rigs. Fans for chipset VRMs. Fans for RAM. Fans for GPU VRMs. Fans for this, fans for that. Radiators with 18 Noctuas on just one. It seems like just brute forcing the area with a huge box fan may be the way to go, to keep there from being a lot of competing airflow paths and hot spots. I don't really have the budget for buying a lot of little fans at $25 a pop.[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Interesting. I guess I missed the post with those results. It must have been a lot further in. All of the 140mm reviews I saw showed a worse ratio. Good to know that there is at least one good 140mm fan.


What do you mean by "best" fans? None of Cyclop's testing gives a single "best" fan .. because the testing is not equal. PWM fans are tested at full speed while voltage controlled fans are tested with LNA and UNLA resisters that lower their speed. We can't compare a fan only tested at 1300rpm against a similar fans tested at 900rpm

To me not having fans tested over their respective speed range limits the value of the test results .. because I almost always use PWM fans and rarely (if ever) run them at full speed.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What do you mean by "best" fans?


The best fans are those with the highest cooling to noise ratio, the highest efficiency. Of course, there are also other factors that complicated matters, like performance per dollar, reliability (e.g. sleeve fans in a horizontal orientation), and static pressure vs. airflow. I don't care at all about looks but some do.

It also seems clear enough that to get the highest cooling performance sometimes fans with a poorer cooling to noise ratio, like Deltas, are actually preferable due to their greater ability to handle large amounts of heat as well as their reliability at high RPMs.


----------



## chartiet

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> The best fans are those with the highest cooling to noise ratio, the highest efficiency. Of course, there are also other factors that complicated matters, like performance per dollar, reliability (e.g. sleeve fans in a horizontal orientation), and static pressure vs. airflow. I don't care at all about looks but some do.
> 
> It also seems clear enough that to get the highest cooling performance sometimes fans with a poorer cooling to noise ratio, like Deltas, are actually preferable due to their greater ability to handle large amounts of heat as well as their reliability at high RPMs.





How does one determine a fan's "cooling" performance?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> How does one determine a fan's "cooling" performance?


By how cool they look attached to the hub of your 22" Escalade rims.


----------



## lagittaja

Thanks for all the hard work you've done! Truly amazing thread. Just finished reading through from where I left off couple years ago..

Quite interesting to see the NF-S12B Redux-1200 PWM being a smidge better in push than the newer NF-S12A PWM. The value the redux model offers is quite nice, I personally wouldn't have any use for the extra stuff that comes with the S12A, well the soft rubber corners are nice but anyway..
Would you care to give your subjective opinion between these two similar fans? If you have any, that is. Did you happen to hear any subtle differences between them?

Also, do you have any plans to revisit some of the 140mm fans done on the previous test system, taken if you have the time for it? Or do you still even have the samples







For example NF-A15 would be interesting to see with comparable results to 120mm fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Thanks for all the hard work you've done! Truly amazing thread. Just finished reading through from where I left off couple years ago..
> 
> Quite interesting to see the NF-S12B Redux-1200 PWM being a smidge better in push than the newer NF-S12A PWM. The value the redux model offers is quite nice, I personally wouldn't have any use for the extra stuff that comes with the S12A, well the soft rubber corners are nice but anyway..
> Would you care to give your subjective opinion between these two similar fans? If you have any, that is. Did you happen to hear any subtle differences between them?
> 
> Also, do you have any plans to revisit some of the 140mm fans done on the previous test system, taken if you have the time for it? Or do you still even have the samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example NF-A15 would be interesting to see with comparable results to 120mm fans.










.

All of Noctua fans have been solid. The SSO/SSO2 bearing is one of the best in the business. I don't recall one being louder than the other. For that to happen, a product has to be exceptionally bad.

I do have all the old 140mm fans so I will slowly creep them in on the new test bench.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> How does one determine a fan's "cooling" performance?


By asking rhetorical questions.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> How does one determine a fan's "cooling" performance?


Put it on a cooler and see if it cools better than the "other"fans.


----------



## chartiet

Some fans will perform better on a air cooler than they will as a case fan than they will as a rad fan. Which fan "cools" better is relative to the application or cooling hardware was all I was sarcastically commenting on


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> Some fans will perform better on a air cooler than they will as a case fan than they will as a rad fan. Which fan "cools" better is relative to the application or cooling hardware was all I was sarcastically commenting on


While that statement has some validity, it is misleading to say the least.

Most all fans that give good performance give good performance, period! Doesn't matter if they are on air coolers, radiators or cases ..

That is not to say they are using all of their performance ability on all .. or even any of the applications they are being used for.









It's kinda like comparing Prius and Porsche engines. While both can accelerate with traffic and cruise along at 70mph, the Prius is using all of it's performance while the Porsche has all kinds of power and performance to spare.


----------



## chartiet

I gotcha. So then, in general, would the Porshe would cool better than the Prius (applying back to fans)? Say at the max TDP of an air cooler, does the Prius and the Porshe perform the same? Do they have equal cooling performance? Your point is evident in that AP-15's make good rad fans, air cooler fans, and good case fans. Is static pressure the key?


----------



## miklkit

I would say that it depends on where your top speed is. In computer terms if your vcore is 1.3v, then the Prius works just fine. If your vcore is 1.5+v, then you want the Porsche. Most coolers use fans in the 60-80 cfm range and are adequate, while the ones I use use 130 cfm fans. Most AMD air cooled systems peak at 4.8 ghz while mine has run at 5 ghz.

For case fans, they need to pull more air through filters than the CPU fans can use. I believe static pressure is key.


----------



## cravinmild

I was wondering if anyone has checked to see if the posted speed and the actual speed the fan spins is correct. Also, if the speed shown on your fan controllers and actual fan speeds match up?


----------



## doyll

Like miklkit said, lots of variables involved

At 70mph on level ground both cars perform the same .. just as two good fans at same speed on same cooler.
In a road race the Porsche will leave the Prius in it's dust .. just like an AP52 (1450rpm) to an AP29 (3000rpm) or to a 38mm thick Delta. At the the same airflow and pressure resistance they perform the same up to their respective limits, but some have more rpm / cfm / pressure in reserve to do more in situations where it is needed.

Thermalright TY-147 and TY-143 are good examples of same basic fans with the TY-143 having almost twice the airflow and pressure (and 4x the noise) ..


or Nidec Gentle Typhoon fans.


----------



## traianescu

about the noise level in db - to what distance is placed the microphone ? i had checked first page two times, but i didn't found it..


----------



## MasterBash

Cyclops, thanks for the tests, really amazing.

However, considering the first 140mm test system is different from the second, I dont know how to interpret the results.

I currently have a few F140HP and F140XP (they are almost the same but the XP comes with bigger rubber around holes, square, different color and QSA adapter for lower rpm, as low as 300).

How are the new NF-P14 Redux PWM-1200 compared to the Phanteks when it comes to both noise and cooling? Two different systems make it hard to interpret the results tbh.

I did not like the previous Noctua fans compared to the Phanteks, they just seemed to be inferior, but it seems like the new ones are better?

Also, do they actually start at 350rpm? The XP can run as low as 300 rpm, but will not start at less than ~500.

Thanks.


----------



## AlphaC

(Cyclops, sorry for posting in your thread! )

MasterBash , as far as I know if they are both maxed speed (1200rpm) the NF-P14 Redux PWM-1200 is the same as the older NF-P14 except prettier less brown and PWM.

If you look at http://www.overclock.net/t/1274407/fans-the-most-complete-and-comprehensive-array-of-tests-and-benchmarks#post_17562686

the Noctua NF-P14 is a dB louder and doesn't cool as well (considering the Phanteks is a good 100rpm more).

I've read on silentpcreview the Phanteks TS/HP (the one with 120mm holes) that it is a smoother sounding fan than the NF-P14 as well.


----------



## MasterBash

Ya I read those reviews, which is why I have those fans.









However, I was wondering what changed in the NF-P14 redux other than PWM/colors. I thought they were better performing than the previous ones.

I guess Phanteks fans are still better.


----------



## AlphaC

NF-P14*s* redux-1500 PWM is faster than 1200rpm of the older brown one & they're square frame.
(see also http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/noctua_redux_series_and_accessory_kit_review,11.html "The chart shows us that these fans match their specs and they are the same as their full priced predecessors.")


----------



## MasterBash

What I meant by better is... At the same rpm, which fan is has the better cooling performance/lowest noise.

But ya, they are the same, so I will stick to my Phanteks.


----------



## MicroCat

Got a NF-P14r Redux-1500 and Phanteks TS recently. Disappointed in both. Far too noisy above 1000rpm and too droney/clicky below. Perfectly quiet sitting in their little packages on the shelf. Which is the ideal location for both.

The only 140mm case fan that I've been able to tolerate is the old Thermalright TY-140 Xsilent and only below 750rpm. Which at that speed doesn't move as much air as many quieter 120mm fans at 900-1000rpm.

I'm becoming a 140mm curmudgeon: "Get off my case!"


----------



## MasterBash

Phanteks fan are quiet, but you are right, they are clicky, which is annoying me. As far as performance and noise level, I dont think they are beatable. The click is an issue though. I dont know if this is due to PWM. I wonder if a voltage regulated fan like the TwoCool would be better when it comes to that.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Got a NF-P14r Redux-1500 and Phanteks TS recently. Disappointed in both. Far too noisy above 1000rpm and too droney/clicky below. Perfectly quiet sitting in their little packages on the shelf. Which is the ideal location for both.
> 
> The only 140mm case fan that I've been able to tolerate is the old Thermalright TY-140 Xsilent and only below 750rpm. Which at that speed doesn't move as much air as many quieter 120mm fans at 900-1000rpm.
> 
> I'm becoming a 140mm curmudgeon: "Get off my case!"


Did you contact Noctua? their PWM doesn't click. Compare your samples to the sound samples on the web.

It could just be your case airflow. Perhaps you have a flow situation where the air moving through is making the droning or something in your case that is moving with the air (a cable tie maybe?).

I found this out because the Noctua NF-A14 PWM was causing a sucking noise on my hex mesh at max speed (1500rpm).


----------



## MasterBash

It sounds like that 



 . The beginning of it - when it starts up (in other words, the interval when it happens). I cant hear it at higher rpm. All of my fans do the same thing.

It seems like some kind of vibrations above, but mine doesnt vibrate, it just sounds similar to that.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Phanteks fan are quiet, but you are right, they are clicky, which is annoying me. As far as performance and noise level, I dont think they are beatable. The click is an issue though. I dont know if this is due to PWM. I wonder if a voltage regulated fan like the TwoCool would be better when it comes to that.


Are you sure your fan wasn't damaged in transit?

Or maybe you're trying to use a voltage regulated / DC fan on a PWM-only fan header?


Spoiler: CoolingTechnique videos



Phanteks MP : 



Phanteks PH-F140 



Phanteks stock fan PH-F140HP PWM 



Noctua NF-P14r 



Noctua NF-A14 2000rpm 



Noctua NF-P14s 



Noctua NF-P14 



Noctua NF-A14 FLX 







Cyclops, sorry for intruding on your thread (again







)


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> Did you contact Noctua? their PWM doesn't click. Compare your samples to the sound samples on the web.
> 
> It could just be your case airflow. Perhaps you have a flow situation where the air moving through is making the droning or something in your case that is moving with the air (a cable tie maybe?).
> 
> I found this out because the Noctua NF-A14 PWM was causing a sucking noise on my hex mesh at max speed (1500rpm).


None of the many 120mm PWM Nocs that I use click - that's why this 140mm was so upsetting. Returned to retailer for replacement - they let me select another 120mm (P12) to replace it. It's happily quiet in the P14's place.

I found both the P14 and the TS droned in free air. Maybe bad specimens, the P14 certainly was. But, I'm a freak about tonal noises even at quiet levels - even the X-silents get droney above 800rpm to my ears..


----------



## MasterBash

To be honest, the video posted about with the f140hp is so bad, i hear the microphone hissing and i cant even hear the sound of the fan at low rpm, ithe microphone is not sensitive enough. When I use its lowest rpm in my system I can hear the air and the clicking. At high rpm its fine, no clicking... the problem is at low rpm.

All my phanteks fans do it. They are from different batches too. I dont think they are all bad.

No idea if it happens in the open without having the fan screwed to anything, I will have to try.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *traianescu*
> 
> about the noise level in db - to what distance is placed the microphone ? i had checked first page two times, but i didn't found it..


Less than a feet away.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Cyclops, thanks for the tests, really amazing.
> 
> However, considering the first 140mm test system is different from the second, I dont know how to interpret the results.
> 
> I currently have a few F140HP and F140XP (they are almost the same but the XP comes with bigger rubber around holes, square, different color and QSA adapter for lower rpm, as low as 300).
> 
> How are the new NF-P14 Redux PWM-1200 compared to the Phanteks when it comes to both noise and cooling? Two different systems make it hard to interpret the results tbh.
> 
> I did not like the previous Noctua fans compared to the Phanteks, they just seemed to be inferior, but it seems like the new ones are better?
> 
> Also, do they actually start at 350rpm? The XP can run as low as 300 rpm, but will not start at less than ~500.
> 
> Thanks.


The old 140mm test rig is retired. I started testing 140mm fans on the 120mm testing rig not too long ago so you can directly compare results.

Most fans have advertised lowest speed that you typically can't achieve unless you have the fan oriented in a particular way to decrease rolling resistance.


----------



## MasterBash

I meant comparing 2 140mm fans in different systems (such as F140TS and Noctua NF-P14s redux) is not really possible due to different variables (such as cpu cooler).

However, you should take a look at the F140HP and F140XP. They are both similar but better specs than the TS version. I got both HP and XP and I am very happy but just like you, I am looking for the very best and so far I havent found anything better.

Unfortunately, the F140XP are rated as low as 300 rpm and mine refuse to go that low with PWM. When I got it that low, I believe it was with DC and I had to spin it by hand... Seems like some people got other fans to spin that low, wish mine would.


----------



## johnjohniejonjo

Hi, where is cm jetflo120?


----------



## ErraticDK

I would love to see how the EKWB vardar would score in these charts

I've heard that the motor is based on the GT. just with 7 blades instead of 9


----------



## cravinmild

I picked up one of these link (I like toys) for testing my fans controller posted speeds against actual fan speed. It has some silver reflective tape I am to put on the fan blade. It does not say if the tape is placed at the tip of the blade or bottom ... midway







idk. Has anyone tested their fan controllers posted speeds to actual fan speed? wondering if fan controllers were correct.


----------



## epic1337

has the NF-A15 been tested yet? i can't seem to find one if it had been tested already.

also, does anyone know whats the RPM curve of Scythe AP-30 ( GT 4250RPM )?


----------



## lagittaja

Yes, he has tested the NF-A15 PWM on the 140mm test rig. Nowadays he tests the 140mm fans on the 120mm test rig.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Also, do you have any plans to revisit some of the 140mm fans done on the previous test system, taken if you have the time for it? Or do you still even have the samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example NF-A15 would be interesting to see with comparable results to 120mm fans.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I do have all the old 140mm fans so I will slowly creep them in on the new test bench.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Yes, he has tested the NF-A15 PWM on the 140mm test rig. Nowadays he tests the 140mm fans on the 120mm test rig.


yeah i found it after digging a bit further, its practically way back in the posts x.x
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 140mm Fan #14 - Noctua NF-A15 PWM:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, a very impressive product that comes highly recommended from me. More pictures on post #3.


----------



## lagittaja

It can also be found in the third post of this thread


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> It can also be found in the third post of this thread


yup, didn't think of reading from first post.


----------



## MasterBash

I am thinking about trying out some nf-p14 pwm-1200 instead of my Phanteks F140HP/XP. The Phanteks are the best fans I have ever used, but damn the clicking noise is annoying. Dont really feel like downgrading my fans though... I will see what I am gonna do with them. I hate the fact that Noctua fans have no rubber for vibration, unlike the F140XP.


----------



## Anateus

Any vardar vs gt vs noctua comparisions?


----------



## iakoboss7

any chance in testing the new arctic f12 fans? its rev.2 and supposed to be quieter than the old that you tested


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anateus*
> 
> Any vardar vs gt vs noctua comparisions?


Coming very soon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iakoboss7*
> 
> any chance in testing the new arctic f12 fans? its rev.2 and supposed to be quieter than the old that you tested


I've gotta contact Arctic see if they've got any samples.


----------



## Anateus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Coming very soon.


Great news! Cant wait


----------



## iakoboss7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've gotta contact Arctic see if they've got any samples.


thank you! its been out for 1-2 years now if that helps! (they have different color on the sticker!)

old

new


----------



## miklkit

The new ones have been out for quite some time. I first bought them in early 2013 and they have the new style labels.


----------



## Driftergtr2501

Subbed


----------



## untore

I would like to see enermax twister pressure and twister storm in the chart!


----------



## GDT78

I need to replace stock fans from a corsair H100i (very noisy) with something else. What can I use for? I have 2 old Noctua NF-P12 (not pwm), but I can think to buy another 2 different.


----------



## Cyclops

P12s are excellent fans. Those are your best options.


----------



## GDT78

Ok, perfect. Should I stick with a Push configuration and connect them to the h100i directly or to my motherboard connectors?


----------



## lagittaja

Whatever floats your boat. If your motherboard can control 3pin fans based on CPU temperature I would connect them straight to the motherboard.


----------



## MrKoala

So in the most common fan speed range sacrificing 3°C gives you around 10dB of noise reduction.



Can we get a source file (something like csv or excel) of the data?


----------



## StrongForce

Cool! Hard to choose lol


----------



## epic1337

has anyone tried mixing fans for better result?

i mean for example, NF-S12A FLX push + NF-P12 pull should have lower noise level and better performance.
my reasoning is that, NF-S12A FLX in push-only gets slightly better temps than NF-P12, the opposite happens in pull-only.


----------



## lagittaja

If you're concerned about noise I would be wary with mixing fans since even two identical fans operating in tandem can generate some weird tonal effects. Now make that two fans with different blade geometries. You might create a wonderful cacophony since each fan has it's own different sound signature. But who knows, maybe they'll blend nicely together.
Couple of A15's together (NH-D15) develop a steady mid-frequency hum which, according to SPCR, stands out at 7V and above (~960rpm).


----------



## epic1337

good point, but i wonder if its possible to do the opposite, different fans cancelling the noise of each other, that would've been miraculous.


----------



## lagittaja

Well the other fan would need to produce the exact same sound but at opposite phase. Then the sound waves would cancel each other out. Looking forward to what comes from Noctua's and RotoSub's ANC project









You can learn more about it from here.
http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=rotosub_anc_project
And you can read the latest update on the project from here. They managed to make the controller smaller so it fits on the fan PCB (nice improvement) and switched from the NF-F12 to the upcoming next-gen 120mm fan for radiators/heatsinks.
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=news_list&news_id=101&lng=en


----------



## MicroCat

It would certainly be miraculous...while violating a few laws of physics. To cancel the noise of each other, the noise generated by the different fans would need to be identical - not different, but 180 degrees out of phase from each other while emanating from the same physical point in space. Separate the fans and the phase cancellation becomes more of an axis dependent comb filter effect.

That's some tricky criteria to meet. Noctua's experimental self-noise-canceling fan has some success reducing the tonal elements of fan noise - no effect on the noise of the air movement. Like most, air molecules complain when getting pushed, pulled and shoved around. The better fans push and pull the molecules more politely. ;-)


----------



## lagittaja

I'm not sure if Noctua's goal has ever been to have an effect on the noise that the movement of air makes.
Quote:


> The development goal is to achieve a more broadband sound signature that sounds more agreeable to the human ear.


The NF-F12 was a good fan to prototype this tech on







Do mind that the SPCR 12V is the 1500rpm. The ANC prototype is 2500rpm




















I mean like damn.. That's just freaking amazing.

Their Computex 2013 prototype was also interesting


----------



## AT-Pascal

@Cyclops hit me up for Alphacool and phobya samples

I think you will find the Susurro very intresting


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AT-Pascal*
> 
> @Cyclops hit me up for Alphacool and phobya samples
> 
> I think you will find the Susurro very intresting


Thanks







.

Susurro seem to be only available in a 1700 RPM trim which is a tad high but the blade shapes are unorthodox so I reserve judgment. Interesting design.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fans #68 and #69 - Nidec Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B6AP-60 & EK Vardar F4-120 2200 RPM

 

 

Look what we have here. The old iconic Gentle Typhoon originally licensed by Scythe from Nidec, reborn vs brand new EK Vardar. For those of you who don't know, Gentle Typhoon was made by Nidec for the server market eons ago. Scythe bought them from Nidec and rebranded them under a licensed deal. They stopped production a while back which is why it's been hard to find GT fans as the stock has gradually dried out.

I'm happy to say that Dazmode is now supplying these fans once again to the general public, and better yet, they come in pure black. That being said, EK introduced their own line of fans, the Vardar, which according to them was "inspired" by the GTs. Never the less, we have both of them here today for a direct comparison. Both models in this review operate in the 2100-2200 RPM range, which is a bit high for most applications, but unfortunately, for now, Gentle Typhoons are only available in the 2150 RPM trim.

As you can see from the results, the thermal performance is almost identical in all areas. Where the GTs pulls ahead of Vardars is noise. While on pull, there was no advantage to be seen using either fan. On push/pull and specially on push however, GTs are far quieter while maintaining similar thermal performance to Vardars. GTs are untouchable in push within their noise class. If you look at the graphs in the first post, you'll see that the only fan that's comparable to the Nidecs on push, is the Zalman ZM-F3 which itself is a great product.

It would be interesting to test lower RPM version of these fans but for now, GTs are not available in other formats but the 2150 RPM model. Performance aside, they both do okay in the aesthetics department. I don't like the braiding or the spaghetti colored cables of either products. Hopefully they'll improve on that in future revisions.


----------



## epic1337

do you plan on doing 7v tests on these fans? curious if they get better in noise profile, noctua's and corsair's LNA works in this concept if i remember correctly.


----------



## Cyclops

No, I test the fans as is. Like I said before, it's too much work as it is already. I don't want to double my work load.


----------



## epic1337

haha, i guessed so.

though a question, will using noctua's LNA on other fans work? specially those with over 0.3A current draw.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> haha, i guessed so.
> 
> though a question, will using noctua's LNA on other fans work? specially those with over 0.3A current draw.


It works on every fan. Whether or not they start to spin depend on their voltage threshold.


----------



## Anateus

How would you compare their "noise quality"? I remember they had way different tones when running at same dB levels.


----------



## Cyclops

In pull, the Vardars were less whiny so although they generate same dBA numbers, the Vardars were easier on the ear, but only on pull. On push, it was hands down a GT win.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> though a question, will using noctua's LNA on other fans work? specially those with over 0.3A current draw.


Yes, of course they will work. They're just inline resistors. You would be better off with making your own or just solder appropriately sized resistor to your existing fan cable. It's a simple calculation using ohm's law.
Ohm's law is









Let's assume a fan that at 12V draws 0.3A and you want it to spin at 7V.
V=IR
12V = 0.3A * R
R = 12V / 0.3A = 40ohms

7V = 40ohms * I
I = 7V / 40ohms = 0.175A

12V - 7V = 5V
5V = 0.175A * R
R = 5V / 0.175A = *28.571ohms*

I don't know what Noctua's NA-SRC7 and NA-SRC10 resistor values are. But I'm gonna bet they're quite high. Noctua's fans don't draw a lot of amps..

The NF-S12B Redux-1200 according to CoolingTechnique draws 0.07A. Noctua says that that fan will spin at 900rpm with the NA-SRC10. 900rpm on that is supposedly 8V.
So 12V + 0.07A fan and 8V goal would mean ~85.7ohm resistance.
With a 12V 0.3A fan it would drop it's voltage to a little under 4V.

*tl;dr calculate the proper resistance for your specific fan and DIY or order a one with close enough resistance.*

Here's even a calculator so you don't have to do anything else but punch in the numbers and off you go.
http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/fanspeed.shtml


----------



## leakydog

Hi, could you advise me which some 140mm case fans for Aquaero 5/6 controlling in R4 fractal case? I would prefer wider RPM range for inaudibily when idling, but powerfull airflow when burning  Could it be NF-A14 PWM? Thanks


----------



## MrKoala

DC motors are not resistors and they don't follow Ohm's law. The apparent resistance (V/I) varies as voltage or fan speed changes. The calculation by Ohm's law is often close enough for practical purposes though.

If you don't want to use a PWM controller (there are very cheap ones out there), just get a potentiometer, or try a collection of different resistors.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> [...]


You made a mistake in the stats table graphic for the GT. The mistake is in the "cable length" row.


----------



## Cyclops

Thanks, fixed.


----------



## crystaal

Any testing of Phanteks newer MP series with larger blades?


----------



## lagittaja

Coolingtechnique has. Well the F120MP and F140HP II which basically is F140MP with a round frame. Rather impressive I must say.
http://coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1581-recensione-phanteks-ph-tc12ls-e-ph-tc14s.html?showall=&start=5
They also had a look at the Susurro from Alphacool, pretty average if you ask me.
http://coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/ventole/1609-recensione-phobya-nb-eloop-alphacool-nb-eloop-e-susurro.html?showall=&start=5

Both at 1600rpm, Susurro moves ~4% more air, louder (17,8dBA vs 22,7dBA) SPL wise and more tonal than F120MP. F120MP produced a fourth more static pressure.

I hope you can get a hold of MP test samples Cyclops


----------



## Cyclops

I have those fans, expect a review soon.


----------



## elect

What about the Bionische 140mm?


----------



## FlashFir

I'm looking for two case fans as intake on PS07B with a D14 & 290x Tri-X, sub $20 per fan preferably.

Was lookin at the Enermax UCTB12 since it was at the top of the noise/temperature ratio but since the 290x fans ramp up, it doesn't make that much of a difference if the intakes aren't utterly silent. FM121 perhaps since it can range dramatically? I currently have all 4 fans on my mobo + GPU controlled via SpeedFan so that shouldn't be an issue if that's the best choice.

Question is; Given that I have an AP121 and a Swiftech Helix (janky mix I feel); would the recommended fans make significant enough temperature difference that the 290x fans would not have to be as loud? Or am I just spending money for the sake of it?


----------



## Cyclops

Depends on the airflow of the case. More fans usually never hurt performance.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Depends on the airflow of the case. More fans usually never hurt performance.


This is the rig now, I'd be replacing the two fans rather than adding more. What do you think? I presumed my rig had a good thumbnail but it didn't









These Phanteks look good now that I'm looking at it... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709028 There's so many things, I feel a little paralysis by the options.


----------



## MicroCat

The Phanteks will probably be fine...but if it were me, I'd be using a pair of Nocs, preferably A14 PWM which are stupid $$$. So, the NF-P14s would be the next best choice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608064

Or another good, quiet choice is the TR 147A for $17.99: http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY-147A-140-noise-emission/dp/B00S84ACJO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436399143&sr=8-1&keywords=thermalright+TY147a

I've had a bad string of RMA'd Phanteks 140mm, so am jaded. Sorry to add to the option list choices.

Question: It appears the front cooler fan is mounted at an odd angle. Artistic choice? Or?


----------



## epic1337

i really hope Noc starts making <$10 fans, not a mediocre one but just a simpler and bare-necessity fans.
the current Noc offerings have lots and lots of accessories that could've saved us $2~$3 if omitted...


----------



## MicroCat

The Redux is probably as down-market as they want to go. No accessories, 'cept for the fan screws. Until a few months ago the Redux were cheaper than other 'premium' brands in many parts of the world. But, it still seems to depend on the locale.

In Canada, even the Premium Chocolate and Cream Noctuas are cheaper than the equivalent models from Phanteks, Be!Quiet or even Fractal. Global shopping can be confusing.


----------



## epic1337

i've heard of redux but i've never seen one here so i doubt they're locally available.

noctua fans here are $20~$30 each







, P12 and S12 thankfully are one of the cheapest, F12 is amongst the most expensive, along with A15.
scythe GTs here tho, now those are extortion prices, $35 for a GT 1850rpm...


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> The Phanteks will probably be fine...but if it were me, I'd be using a pair of Nocs, preferably A14 PWM which are stupid $$$. So, the NF-P14s would be the next best choice:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608064
> 
> Or another good, quiet choice is the TR 147A for $17.99: http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY-147A-140-noise-emission/dp/B00S84ACJO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436399143&sr=8-1&keywords=thermalright+TY147a
> 
> I've had a bad string of RMA'd Phanteks 140mm, so am jaded. Sorry to add to the option list choices.
> 
> Question: It appears the front cooler fan is mounted at an odd angle. Artistic choice? Or?


Those look good too! What is different about the 147A? The blades are side by side almost identical to the ones Noctua uses... that being said... I think I'd have to square the fans since my PS07B stacks them on top of each other. Unless the 120mm mount is normal?

I heard really good things about the TY-14x series here; basically they are identical in performance?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_100#post_23348844

BTW, the cooler... I'm missing a bracket so it rests like that haha


----------



## crystaal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> The Phanteks will probably be fine...but if it were me, I'd be using a pair of Nocs, preferably A14 PWM which are stupid $$$. So, the NF-P14s would be the next best choice:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608064
> 
> Or another good, quiet choice is the TR 147A for $17.99: http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY-147A-140-noise-emission/dp/B00S84ACJO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436399143&sr=8-1&keywords=thermalright+TY147a
> 
> I've had a bad string of RMA'd Phanteks 140mm, so am jaded. Sorry to add to the option list choices.
> 
> Question: It appears the front cooler fan is mounted at an odd angle. Artistic choice? Or?


What happened to your 140mm Phanteks? I have both the SP and MP fans and they work pretty well.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> Those look good too! What is different about the 147A? The blades are side by side almost identical to the ones Noctua uses... that being said... I think I'd have to square the fans since my PS07B stacks them on top of each other. Unless the 120mm mount is normal?
> 
> I heard really good things about the TY-14x series here; basically they are identical in performance?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_100#post_23348844
> 
> BTW, the cooler... I'm missing a bracket so it rests like that haha


What's the difference? doyll will say none except the TRs are better and cheaper! ;-) Except in Canada where the TR 140mm are over twice the cost of the most expensive Noctua 140mm. They're both great fans. Comes down to price and colour choice.

Like the A15, the 147A, has 120mm hole spacing at 105mm. Silverstone states the stock PS07B uses 120mm intake fans, so the 147A should fit without issue. Whereas the P14s redux has 140mm mounting, 124.5mm hole spacing. So unless you hunger for chocolate 'n cream, the 147A seems the obvious choice. Unless you have to buy them in Canada at $52.99 each, then the cheap Noctua A15 for 24.99 is best. ;-)

While the Redux P14r PWM has 120mm mounting holes, 1500rpm intake fan times 2 will be over the noise budget and they don't include a LNA, so the 147A is still the better choice. Just not everywhere they're sold.

Ask Noctua for another bracket, they have awesome customer support, will likely send you one free. Shipping and handling included.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crystaal*
> 
> What happened to your 140mm Phanteks? I have both the SP and MP fans and they work pretty well.


They got 'clicky' at lower rpm. Not subtle ear-against-frame clicky either. It was across the room clicky, like a cartoon ticking timebomb sound efx. 3rd RMA only changed the relative balance of ticks. In the same systems the Noctuas and TRs were click-free. Weird. Maybe the distributor got a bad batch. I got tired of shipping them back. Kept the worst one. Saving it for when a friend asks me on April 1st to fix the noisy fan in his power supply...;-)


----------



## GDT78

A question: I've got a Fractal R4 Define case, for CPU I use 2 Noctua 120mm fans pushing on Corsair H100i radiator and it's fine (mounted on the top of the case). Now I want to get a good air flow inside the case. I've got these fans:
- 2x Fractal R2 140mm fans (included with the case itself)
- 2x Nocta 140mm NF-A14 FLX
- 1x Cooler Master 140mm (I don't remember model number but I got it with my old CM690-II case)

Now I already moved the Cooler Master fan to the bottom, intake, across PSU. I've to place the remaining 4 fans, two intake in front, 1 exhaust in rear, and one intake on the sidepanel over the VGA cards (I've got 2 GTX980 G1 Windforce in SLI). The critical part is VGA cards, which become very hot (near 80°C with this hot summer). Which fans (noctua, fractal) are better to place in front of the case? Note tha Fractal case have a closing door on the frontal, fans take air from the sides of the door.

Thanks.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> This is the rig now, I'd be replacing the two fans rather than adding more. What do you think? I presumed my rig had a good thumbnail but it didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Phanteks look good now that I'm looking at it... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709028 There's so many things, I feel a little paralysis by the options.


I'd save the money. You won't see any tangible difference in temperature by replacing those fans.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GDT78*
> 
> A question: I've got a Fractal R4 Define case, for CPU I use 2 Noctua 120mm fans pushing on Corsair H100i radiator and it's fine (mounted on the top of the case). Now I want to get a good air flow inside the case. I've got these fans:
> - 2x Fractal R2 140mm fans (included with the case itself)
> - 2x Nocta 140mm NF-A14 FLX
> - 1x Cooler Master 140mm (I don't remember model number but I got it with my old CM690-II case)
> 
> Now I already moved the Cooler Master fan to the bottom, intake, across PSU. I've to place the remaining 4 fans, two intake in front, 1 exhaust in rear, and one intake on the sidepanel over the VGA cards (I've got 2 GTX980 G1 Windforce in SLI). The critical part is VGA cards, which become very hot (near 80°C with this hot summer). Which fans (noctua, fractal) are better to place in front of the case? Note tha Fractal case have a closing door on the frontal, fans take air from the sides of the door.
> 
> Thanks.


Either will do fine. Get the one you like the look of the best. Both good options so there won't be much of a difference in temperatures.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> What's the difference? doyll will say none except the TRs are better and cheaper! ;-) Except in Canada where the TR 140mm are over twice the cost of the most expensive Noctua 140mm. They're both great fans. Comes down to price and colour choice.
> 
> Like the A15, the 147A, has 120mm hole spacing at 105mm. Silverstone states the stock PS07B uses 120mm intake fans, so the 147A should fit without issue. Whereas the P14s redux has 140mm mounting, 124.5mm hole spacing. So unless you hunger for chocolate 'n cream, the 147A seems the obvious choice. Unless you have to buy them in Canada at $52.99 each, then the cheap Noctua A15 for 24.99 is best. ;-)
> 
> While the Redux P14r PWM has 120mm mounting holes, 1500rpm intake fan times 2 will be over the noise budget and they don't include a LNA, so the 147A is still the better choice. Just not everywhere they're sold.
> 
> Ask Noctua for another bracket, they have awesome customer support, will likely send you one free. Shipping and handling included.


Biggest difference between the TY-14x series fans and NF-A14 & NF-A15 is color. Obviously rpm range varies depending on which one, but the airflow, pressure & noise levels are all almost identical at same rpm. All within margin of error.

No idea what you are smoking mate, but how would you fit 140mm fan in PS07B .. designed for 120mm fans? I've never been inside of one, but spec is 120mm fans .. meaning 120x120mm square. All 140mm fans are at last 140x140mm square and TY-14x fans are 141x153mm (2 sides are round).


People need to engage their brains before they start talking.


----------



## kaistledine

Awesome thread !! nice one - Subscribed


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GDT78*
> 
> A question: I've got a Fractal R4 Define case, for CPU I use 2 Noctua 120mm fans pushing on Corsair H100i radiator and it's fine (mounted on the top of the case). Now I want to get a good air flow inside the case. I've got these fans:
> - 2x Fractal R2 140mm fans (included with the case itself)
> - 2x Nocta 140mm NF-A14 FLX
> - 1x Cooler Master 140mm (I don't remember model number but I got it with my old CM690-II case)
> 
> Now I already moved the Cooler Master fan to the bottom, intake, across PSU. I've to place the remaining 4 fans, two intake in front, 1 exhaust in rear, and one intake on the sidepanel over the VGA cards (I've got 2 GTX980 G1 Windforce in SLI). The critical part is VGA cards, which become very hot (near 80°C with this hot summer). Which fans (noctua, fractal) are better to place in front of the case? Note tha Fractal case have a closing door on the frontal, fans take air from the sides of the door.
> 
> Thanks.


Put the two Noctua's on the front. Fractal only claims that the 140mm R2 fan can generate 0.84mmH2O of static pressure while the NF-A14 FLX has been tested to produce 1.2mmH2O of static pressure (where as Noctua claimed 1.5mmH2O).
Read they're stronger than the Fractal R2's where you need to pull/push air through restrictive vents and dust filters.

You'll probably want to have the side panel fan exhausting air with your 980's. I'll stress the word probably.
Reason I think that is because of the kind of cooler your cards have. The fins on the cooler are perpendicular in relation to the length of card*. The GPU fans draw air into the cooler and the fins direct the air to flow up towards the side panel and down towards the motherboard.
Where as on the MSI Gaming and Asus Strix cards the fins of the cooler run along the length of the card. With your cards my gut feeling says to pull the hot air away from the cards instead of trying to shove cool air in there.
If that makes any sense.. Test both of the side panel fan configurations if you haven't already.

Gigabyte
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_980_G1_Gaming/images/card1.jpg
MSI
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_980_Gaming/images/card1.jpg
Asus
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_980_STRIX_OC/images/card1.jpg

And I might as well point it out to you that "near 80C" is nowhere near "very hot". The maximum temperature of the GTX 980 is 98C. I'd start worrying if they pass 90C under normal load..

P.S. Did I use the word perpendicular correctly?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Put the two Noctua's on the front. Fractal only claims that the 140mm R2 fan can generate 0.84mmH2O of static pressure while the NF-A14 FLX has been tested to produce 1.2mmH2O of static pressure (where as Noctua claimed 1.5mmH2O).
> Read they're stronger than the Fractal R2's where you need to pull/push air through restrictive vents and dust filters.


Indeed!
The R2 fans at full speed are maybe reaching half their rated cfm behind the grill and filter.. and flow almost no air at lower speed. The A14 at full speed is flowing about 70% of it's rated cfm .. and about 30% at lower speed.


----------



## FlashFir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *FlashFir*
> 
> This is the rig now, I'd be replacing the two fans rather than adding more. What do you think? I presumed my rig had a good thumbnail but it didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Phanteks look good now that I'm looking at it... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709028 There's so many things, I feel a little paralysis by the options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd save the money. You won't see any tangible difference in temperature by replacing those fans.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *GDT78*
> 
> A question: I've got a Fractal R4 Define case, for CPU I use 2 Noctua 120mm fans pushing on Corsair H100i radiator and it's fine (mounted on the top of the case). Now I want to get a good air flow inside the case. I've got these fans:
> - 2x Fractal R2 140mm fans (included with the case itself)
> - 2x Nocta 140mm NF-A14 FLX
> - 1x Cooler Master 140mm (I don't remember model number but I got it with my old CM690-II case)
> 
> Now I already moved the Cooler Master fan to the bottom, intake, across PSU. I've to place the remaining 4 fans, two intake in front, 1 exhaust in rear, and one intake on the sidepanel over the VGA cards (I've got 2 GTX980 G1 Windforce in SLI). The critical part is VGA cards, which become very hot (near 80°C with this hot summer). Which fans (noctua, fractal) are better to place in front of the case? Note tha Fractal case have a closing door on the frontal, fans take air from the sides of the door.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Either will do fine. Get the one you like the look of the best. Both good options so there won't be much of a difference in temperatures.

That's what I suspected and why I asked. Splitting hairs over negligible difference. I tell my friends the same "unless you have spectacularly bad airflow, it probably won't make a difference". Or unless ambients are higher but I live in southern California... Thanks again for the input! Sounds silly but just spot checking opinion pretty much confirms what I think.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> What's the difference? doyll will say none except the TRs are better and cheaper! ;-) Except in Canada where the TR 140mm are over twice the cost of the most expensive Noctua 140mm. They're both great fans. Comes down to price and colour choice.
> 
> Like the A15, the 147A, has 120mm hole spacing at 105mm. Silverstone states the stock PS07B uses 120mm intake fans, so the 147A should fit without issue. Whereas the P14s redux has 140mm mounting, 124.5mm hole spacing. So unless you hunger for chocolate 'n cream, the 147A seems the obvious choice. Unless you have to buy them in Canada at $52.99 each, then the cheap Noctua A15 for 24.99 is best. ;-)
> 
> While the Redux P14r PWM has 120mm mounting holes, 1500rpm intake fan times 2 will be over the noise budget and they don't include a LNA, so the 147A is still the better choice. Just not everywhere they're sold.
> 
> Ask Noctua for another bracket, they have awesome customer support, will likely send you one free. Shipping and handling included.
> 
> 
> 
> Biggest difference between the TY-14x series fans and NF-A14 & NF-A15 is color. Obviously rpm range varies depending on which one, but the airflow, pressure & noise levels are all almost identical at same rpm. All within margin of error.
> 
> No idea what you are smoking mate, but how would you fit 140mm fan in PS07B .. designed for 120mm fans? I've never been inside of one, but spec is 120mm fans .. meaning 120x120mm square. All 140mm fans are at last 140x140mm square and TY-14x fans are 141x153mm (2 sides are round).
> 
> 
> People need to engage their brains before they start talking.
Click to expand...









Thanks! I'll ping them... I heard many times about their CS.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Biggest difference between the TY-14x series fans and NF-A14 & NF-A15 is color. Obviously rpm range varies depending on which one, but the airflow, pressure & noise levels are all almost identical at same rpm. All within margin of error.
> 
> No idea what you are smoking mate, but how would you fit 140mm fan in PS07B .. designed for 120mm fans? I've never been inside of one, but spec is 120mm fans .. meaning 120x120mm square. All 140mm fans are at last 140x140mm square and TY-14x fans are 141x153mm (2 sides are round).


I assumed he had a modding method to retro-fit 140mm. The Dremel is mightier than the measuring tape. The ingenious (and possibly silly and dangerous) things people can do in the privacy of their own cases is all part of the DIY ethos.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> People need to engage their brains before they start talking.


If that happened most of the internet would be silent. And overclock.net would become a ghost site. And then who would you have left to scold?


----------



## doyll

Fitting 140mm fans in 120mm holes would require magic.


----------



## MicroCat

And a dremel. Steady hands optional. ;-)

Or just don't fight the dimensional limits and install a pair of NF-P12s. Or GTs


----------



## epic1337

air penetrators works well with this case too, the directional flow helps in directly supplying cold air to tower HSFs.


----------



## doyll

EK Vardar & Gentle Typhoon PWM are some of the best. I use 1300rpm 140mm fans but so far 1050rpm is the most they've run, even when rendering graphics for hours on end with 2x programs running so all 12 thread are at 100% for long long periods. Normal use sees 900-95rpm on extremely hot days.


----------



## kaistledine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> EK Vardar & Gentle Typhoon PWM are some of the best. I use 1300rpm 140mm fans but so far 1050rpm is the most they've run, even when rendering graphics for hours on end with 2x programs running so all 12 thread are at 100% for long long periods. Normal use sees 900-95rpm on extremely hot days.


Was going to get some EK Vardar 2200 but from this report they seem pretty loud !


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaistledine*
> 
> Was going to get some EK Vardar 2200 but from this report they seem pretty loud !


Spin them at 2200rpm and of course they will be louder than fans at 1200rpm, 1500rpm or 1800rpm. EK Vardar F4 are actually quieter and move more air than similar fans at similar speeds. They are the green diamond line in these graphs.


----------



## el gappo

Hey @Cyclops, Loving the thread! Really cool you've managed to keep it updated for all this time, you're a real fan man









Can you point me to a nice image from the thread that would look at home on the front page and I'll stick it up there


----------



## Cakewalk_S

The new EK fans are pretty awesome. They're making huge leaps forward as far as popularity on the forum...seems like everyone wants to have them. They're quite a stylish fan if fans can even look good... and for performance, they're pretty darn good, right up there at the top. Only downside I see is price. Even the reviews on these fans are simply awesome.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> Hey @Cyclops
> , Loving the thread! Really cool you've managed to keep it updated for all this time, you're a real fan man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you point me to a nice image from the thread that would look at home on the front page and I'll stick it up there


Thanks el gappo







.

I'm not even an amateur photographer







. Let me see what I can find.

Edit: I'm sure Noctua wouldn't mind if we used this:


----------



## MasterBash

Very nice doyll. I keep reading about how good the vardars are, but i havent had much of a chance to read much about them, as I do not use 120mm fans anymore... or atleast, for now.

I also took your suggestion about the Define R5 that I have, my new video card (gtx970) doesnt have the accelero xtreme iii on it, so it is overheating a bit.

Now I need a bottom fan for the define r5. Do you guys suggest a vardar or a 140mm fan? I am thinking about another Phanteks F140XP or Noctua NF-P14 1200 pwm. I love my phanteks but I hate the ticking noise, so annoying. I dont think there are better 140mm fans out there than those 2... For quiet pc, atleast.


----------



## lagittaja

F140MP from Phanteks is quite good. I'd consider them.


----------



## crystaal

I have two myself, good static pressure and decent airflow. Great value for the price compared to Noctuas..

http://thermalbench.com/2015/01/07/phanteks-ph-f120mp-ph-f140mp-fans/


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm thinking about using the 120mm testing rig to test 140mm fans as well and scrap the 140mm rig. The heatsinks are about the same size and pros and cons are pretty much the same. Plus you will be able to directly compare both 120mm and 140mm fans.
> 
> The 140mm rig won't go to waste. I can put another heatsink on it to test 80/92mm fans.
> 
> What do you guys think?


92mm fan testing would be great !

(yes, I realize I'm replying to a 2 y/o question)

several pre-builts I come across have crummy 92MM exhaust fans that are noisy and poor performing.


----------



## alltheGHz

Hello everyone









I recently acquired 5x Noctua NF-S12A's (PWM). I REALLY don't like the color, but I like the silence of the fans, and I already sleeved a few of them. I have a few options, but some will affect overall performance.

A)- Paint the fans. I've heard that by painting them, the fan's lifespan is decreased, as well as audibility increasing. plus, If I screw up, I'm f****d.

B)-Sell the fans to someone who wants them. Least likely solution, as no one really wants sleeved fans, but they've been used for a month so I think I can sell them, and get some industrial ones.

C)- Find a way to obscure the fans. They will be placed in front or behind of radiators, as exhaust, and as a CPU fan cooler. I'm sure I can find something to cover them up with, but that's why I came here.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## SupahSpankeh

You, Cyclops, are a goddamn genius. A patient genius. My only regret is my +1 rep isn't enough.


----------



## SupahSpankeh

So - best noise:delta temperature for H100i GTX? Needs to be PWM controlled. Push or pull, but not both.

Holy shizzle. Wish I'd found this an age ago.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alltheGHz*
> 
> Hello everyone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recently acquired 5x Noctua NF-S12A's (PWM). I REALLY don't like the color, but I like the silence of the fans, and I already sleeved a few of them. I have a few options, but some will affect overall performance.
> 
> A)- Paint the fans. I've heard that by painting them, the fan's lifespan is decreased, as well as audibility increasing. plus, If I screw up, I'm f****d.
> 
> B)-Sell the fans to someone who wants them. Least likely solution, as no one really wants sleeved fans, but they've been used for a month so I think I can sell them, and get some industrial ones.
> 
> C)- Find a way to obscure the fans. They will be placed in front or behind of radiators, as exhaust, and as a CPU fan cooler. I'm sure I can find something to cover them up with, but that's why I came here.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


C) put a shroud and filter on top of it.

or

D) use a case without a clear side panel, then you won't be seeing it anymore.


----------



## GunfighterAK

Late, but subbed


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> C) put a shroud and filter on top of it.
> 
> or
> 
> D) use a case without a clear side panel, then you won't be seeing it anymore.


Good suggestions.

E) Acquire a taste for chocolate and cream. Can take years, esp if your case has a lactose intolerance.


----------



## Alastair

Has the OP been updated with some of the newer stuff? It just makes it easier for people just popping in for a quick look.


----------



## arealMESSiah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Has the OP been updated with some of the newer stuff? It just makes it easier for people just popping in for a quick look.


Looks like it's mostly updated, unless my eyes just missed something. The latest entries appear in the 120mm Temperature and Noise graphs, but I didn't see them in the Noise/Temperature Rating graph. All the 140mm stuff looks up to date, although a 140mm fan hasn't been tested in a while apparently. List of subjects for 120mm and 140mm also look like they include everything so far.

I haven't come to this thread in months, but glad to see the newer EK Vardars up there (for a month's time by now)!







Thanks Cyclops!


----------



## renji1337

Were the akasa viper and akasa apache fans tested?


----------



## azanimefan

interesting, wish i found this thread a long time ago. interestingly, i found those Phantex PHF140 i used in my sub-ambient <20db pc build on my own, i was wondering if they were the quietest 140mm fans on the market. now i know they are.

they're really too quiet for belief. hovering around 600rpm they don't make even the slightest noise. you can only start to hear them on the low frequency side of things when they get up around 900RPM...


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SupahSpankeh*
> 
> You, Cyclops, are a goddamn genius. A patient genius. My only regret is my +1 rep isn't enough.


Thanks







. It's more than enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Has the OP been updated with some of the newer stuff? It just makes it easier for people just popping in for a quick look.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arealMESSiah*
> 
> Looks like it's mostly updated, unless my eyes just missed something. The latest entries appear in the 120mm Temperature and Noise graphs, but I didn't see them in the Noise/Temperature Rating graph. All the 140mm stuff looks up to date, although a 140mm fan hasn't been tested in a while apparently. List of subjects for 120mm and 140mm also look like they include everything so far.
> 
> I haven't come to this thread in months, but glad to see the newer EK Vardars up there (for a month's time by now)!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Cyclops!


This.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Were the akasa viper and akasa apache fans tested?


They have not.


----------



## DarkBlade6

Hey Cyclops !! Do you have any plan to test the new Fractal Design Venturi fans ?!! Ive heard they are really good!


----------



## alcal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SupahSpankeh*
> 
> So - best noise:delta temperature for H100i GTX? Needs to be PWM controlled. Push or pull, but not both.
> 
> Holy shizzle. Wish I'd found this an age ago.


Deltas are fine if you want a jet engine in your room. NF-F12 is probably the best noise-temps fan for usage by an actual human being in regular circumstances (now with the GT so hard to find).


----------



## MrKoala

Deltas are loud for sure when you keep them at max. But are they really bad at performance/noise ratio when you turn the duty cycle down?


----------



## deepor

There's a lot of different products from Delta, so I don't think you can generalize. There's crazy speeds and jet-engine noise but there's also sane speed and somewhat quiet. There's ball-bearings that can have something about them that sounds piercing and annoying to me, but there's also the typical sleeve bearings. The shapes they use for the blades all seem to be smart choices and effective, so performance is always good and competes well.


----------



## Ziver

I've Corsair 900D. I wanna change the 3 fans where is front the case. i would like to have silent one.

1- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=4974 -- NOCTUA NF-P12 PWM
2- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=4540 -- NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM
3- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=5974 -- NOCTUA NF-S12A FLX

Which one is better for me ?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> Hey Cyclops !! Do you have any plan to test the new Fractal Design Venturi fans ?!! Ive heard they are really good!


I don't have any so you're gonna have to ask Fractal Josh







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ziver*
> 
> I've Corsair 900D. I wanna change the 3 fans where is front the case. i would like to have silent one.
> 
> 1- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=4974 -- NOCTUA NF-P12 PWM
> 2- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=4540 -- NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM
> 3- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=5974 -- NOCTUA NF-S12A FLX
> 
> Which one is better for me ?


I would go with NF-P12. Best pull fans I've come across.


----------



## miklkit

Here is a question that has me scratching my head.

I recently upgraded from a R9 280X to a R9 290X and now I'm seeing way higher case temperatures than before. Like from 23C to 30C+. That is the air going into my CPU cooler.









So I pulled the front top Arctic Cooling F12 and installed my most powerful 120mm fan, a Silverstone fm121. It is running at 100% right now and has dropped temps down to 27C, which is still 1C more than the current ambients. It looks like I need at least 1 more of those bad boys to get back to where it was before. Or equivalent.......

Now here is the kicker. When I last ran that FM121 it was the case exhaust fan and it ROCKED! But. This puter is at the far end of a large fully carpeted room and I could walk out and into another room and still hear it howling away. So here it is running flat out in the intake behind a good foam filter and there is no howl. In fact it is not loud at all, and is about at the level of an Aerocool Shark or a hair louder. What's up with that???

Also, any recommendations on some good hot rod 120mm case fans?


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alcal*
> 
> Deltas are fine if you want a jet engine in your room. NF-F12 is probably the best noise-temps fan for usage by an actual human being in regular circumstances (now with the GT so hard to find).


Dazmode is selling them and will ship anywhere. https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/scythe_gentle_typhoon_2150rpm_69cfm_30db_fan/


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ziver*
> 
> I've Corsair 900D. I wanna change the 3 fans where is front the case. i would like to have silent one.
> 
> 1- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=4974 -- NOCTUA NF-P12 PWM
> 2- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=4540 -- NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM
> 3- http://inventus.com.tr/mi_products/Product.aspx?PID=5974 -- NOCTUA NF-S12A FLX
> 
> Which one is better for me ?


If you're talking radiator fans, honestly I'd just undervolt a Gentle Typhoon which you can buy here. https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/scythe_gentle_typhoon_2150rpm_69cfm_30db_fan/

If it's just a case fan for airflow, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709037&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

Despite the rated airflow, real life testing shows far better results. 




The NF-P12s are practically silent in pull even at full blast. My little brother has 4 of them on an Alphacool Monsta 480mm at full tilt in pull and the only thing you can hear is the vortex if you get within 6 inches of them.


----------



## Cyclops

false
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Here is a question that has me scratching my head.
> 
> I recently upgraded from a R9 280X to a R9 290X and now I'm seeing way higher case temperatures than before. Like from 23C to 30C+. That is the air going into my CPU cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I pulled the front top Arctic Cooling F12 and installed my most powerful 120mm fan, a Silverstone fm121. It is running at 100% right now and has dropped temps down to 27C, which is still 1C more than the current ambients. It looks like I need at least 1 more of those bad boys to get back to where it was before. Or equivalent.......
> 
> Now here is the kicker. When I last ran that FM121 it was the case exhaust fan and it ROCKED! But. This puter is at the far end of a large fully carpeted room and I could walk out and into another room and still hear it howling away. So here it is running flat out in the intake behind a good foam filter and there is no howl. In fact it is not loud at all, and is about at the level of an Aerocool Shark or a hair louder. What's up with that???
> 
> Also, any recommendations on some good hot rod 120mm case fans?


290X consumes significantly more power than a 280X. Anywhere from 50 to 100 watts more depending on things like ASIC quality and what not. You are pumping more heat into your system. Your case seem to support 3 intakes (2 front, 1 bottom) and 3 exhausts (2 top, 1 rear) so I suggest occupying all of them, if you can. Fan choice won't matter much as total overall airflow is more important here and there's only so much a single fan can do.

PS: Don't leave your system on the floor, specially when you have carpet instead of laminate or hardwood.


----------



## MrKoala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> There's a lot of different products from Delta, so I don't think you can generalize. There's crazy speeds and jet-engine noise but there's also sane speed and somewhat quiet. There's ball-bearings that can have something about them that sounds piercing and annoying to me, but there's also the typical sleeve bearings. The shapes they use for the blades all seem to be smart choices and effective, so performance is always good and competes well.


There are. When people who love building desktop PCs talking about Delta fans, they are more likely to talk about something like the 4.8A variant though. The sleeve bearing Deltas just don't seem to be that ... interesting.

Is there any review where a powerful industrial fan like the Delta is tested at different duty cycles to see if it performs well at low speeds?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alcal*
> 
> Deltas are fine if you want a jet engine in your room. NF-F12 is probably the best noise-temps fan for usage by an actual human being in regular circumstances (now with the GT so hard to find).


I believe SupahSpankeh's post was actually about _delta temperature_, not Delta Corporation products.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> false
> 290X consumes significantly more power than a 280X. Anywhere from 50 to 100 watts more depending on things like ASIC quality and what not. You are pumping more heat into your system. Your case seem to support 3 intakes (2 front, 1 bottom) and 3 exhausts (2 top, 1 rear) so I suggest occupying all of them, if you can. Fan choice won't matter much as total overall airflow is more important here and there's only so much a single fan can do.
> 
> PS: Don't leave your system on the floor, specially when you have carpet instead of laminate or hardwood.


I knew the 290X puts out more heat but did not expect such a large increase in temperatures in the CPU intake area. It used to stay right at ambients and I want that again.

I have been working on the airflow of this case for some time and it is pretty much set in stone now.

The bottom intake is taped off as there is too much clutter down there with too high of a risk of things getting in the fan blades.

There are three front intakes - the bottom and center are AC F12s and the top is the FM121.

There is one intake in the top front position and it is an AC F12.

There are NO exhaust fans unless you count the two Silverstone FHP-141 fans on the CPU heat sink.

The puter is sitting on top of a desk far away from the floor.

Here is a pic of the current layout. With a different motherboard it hit 5 ghz on air, and is currently running at 4.92 ghz 24/7. I could drop the GPU down and raise the hard drives I suppose.


Anyhoo, my questions are: How come that FM121 isn't howling in pull behind the filters like it did as an open exhaust, and is there anything out there as powerful besides GTs? PWM preferred but not required.


----------



## Cyclops

You have to be an aerodanamicist to figure out why putting a fan in different locations inside a case produces different sound profiles. You need to add another exhaust to move the air out quicker. Consider changing the CPU cooler's fan configuration if you have enough memory clearance.


----------



## miklkit

Ok, I was just wondering about noise. It is a win/win situation for me tho. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

Um, those CPU cooler fans are good for 130 cfm. Any fan with less flow would be a restriction so no fan is best there, and I like them like they are so there is more room for the top intake fan to get air into them.

So it's back to tinkering again.


----------



## wermad

I'm shocked the sp120 hp held the very slight edge vs the ap15. Not shocked the ap15 is more quiet







. I'll keep my sp120s as I saved a bit of cash on them and i have plenty to run them under 5v. awesome work cyclops


----------



## Ziver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I don't have any so you're gonna have to ask Fractal Josh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I would go with NF-P12. Best pull fans I've come across.


Thanks for advice. You know better but this fan better then other 2 for front side of case ?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> If you're talking radiator fans, honestly I'd just undervolt a Gentle Typhoon which you can buy here. https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/scythe_gentle_typhoon_2150rpm_69cfm_30db_fan/
> 
> If it's just a case fan for airflow, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709037&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
> 
> Despite the rated airflow, real life testing shows far better results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The NF-P12s are practically silent in pull even at full blast. My little brother has 4 of them on an Alphacool Monsta 480mm at full tilt in pull and the only thing you can hear is the vortex if you get within 6 inches of them.


I'll use on front side for fresh air to Vga









and here is my case ;


----------



## Alastair

Can we have some tests for the cooler master Jetflo fans?


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Can we have some tests for the cooler master Jetflo fans?


They are monsters when it comes to airflow and have high static pressure, noisy monsters. But I'd like to see how they compare against others.


----------



## Red1776

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Can we have some tests for the cooler master Jetflo fans?
> 
> 
> 
> They are monsters when it comes to airflow and have high static pressure, noisy monsters. But I'd like to see how they compare against others.
Click to expand...

They really are monsters as you say and move a lot of air through a rad. are you considering them for a rad application?

These are the 140mm version


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> They really are monsters as you say and move a lot of air through a rad. are you considering them for a rad application?
> 
> These are the 140mm version


120mm versions are available and they are efficient. 140mm versions come only with Nepton 140/280 AiO coolers. But I happen to have 2 140mm Jetflos as when I sold my nepton, buyer didn't want fans. They might come handy with Kraken X41.


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contay*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Red1776*
> 
> They really are monsters as you say and move a lot of air through a rad. are you considering them for a rad application?
> 
> These are the 140mm version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 120mm versions are available and they are efficient. 140mm versions come only with Nepton 140/280 AiO coolers. But I happen to have 2 140mm Jetflos as when I sold my nepton, buyer didn't want fans. They might come handy with Kraken X41.
Click to expand...

I so badly want the 140mm Jetflo to go retail. Maybe revise it so it doesn't have such a massive hub. Maybe a hub more in line with the Jetflo 120 or even the Xtraflo. I think that would be great. Also the noise isn't terrible for me. Even at 100%. But 99% of the time I have my fan controller set to 25% or 50% so at those speeds the noise isn't an issue at all.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> I so badly want the 140mm Jetflo to go retail. Maybe revise it so it doesn't have such a massive hub. Maybe a hub more in line with the Jetflo 120 or even the Xtraflo. I think that would be great. Also the noise isn't terrible for me. Even at 100%. But 99% of the time I have my fan controller set to 25% or 50% so at those speeds the noise isn't an issue at all.


theres really no smaller hub that can have the same power output as that, 0.8A is some serious current.
however, they could use a rounded hub to lessen the air turbulence.


----------



## Jobba

guys this thread is awesome!
really compliment !
Can i ask to you a fast advice?
I am looking for the best fan to put in push/pull on an ek xe 240 or 360 mm radiators ( I still have to see which one can I fit better ), and I would have the best ratio between noise and performance, any idea?


----------



## Cyclops

Can't go wrong with NF-P12s.


----------



## epic1337

NF-P12s for best noise profile, GT AP15 for pure performance with minimal sacrifice on noise, or CF-V12HB vortex if on a budget.


----------



## Jobba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> NF-P12s for best noise profile, GT AP15 for pure performance with minimal sacrifice on noise, or CF-V12HB vortex if on a budget.


mmhh.. actually the GTAP 15 are really attractive.. is just difficult to find it


----------



## Cyclops

https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/scythe_gentle_typhoon_2150rpm_69cfm_30db_fan/

I count over 550.


----------



## epic1337

isn't that AP60? though i wonder if theres any difference in noise profile, probably with PWM or voltage control you could lower RPM to AP15 level.


----------



## Cyclops

Exact same Gentle Typhoons I reviewed vs Vardars a while back.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> isn't that AP60? though i wonder if theres any difference in noise profile, probably with PWM or voltage control you could lower RPM to AP15 level.


Here is Nidec model character code chart. Notice that 1st through 10th character are primary specification. The 11th is mechanical variations, 12th is monitor options and 13th is customer specific.


----------



## Jobba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/scythe_gentle_typhoon_2150rpm_69cfm_30db_fan/
> 
> I count over 550.


the only problem is that actually I am in London


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jobba*
> 
> the only problem is that actually I am in London


Ah...that is a problem. You want us to come get you and drop you off in Toronto?









Daz ships worldwide. Or you could select the P12s or Vardar F4-ERs locally. Or we could just pickup Daz and drop him off in London. So many options...


----------



## doyll

I think Vardars are better than P12s

You can get the EK Vardar F3 (1850rpm PWM) for £10.02 on Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/120mm-Vardar-F3-120-Fan-EK/dp/B00SIZI1HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437592183&sr=8-1&keywords=ek+vardar+f3

NF-P12 are £17.49 each.


----------



## Jobba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Ah...that is a problem. You want us to come get you and drop you off in Toronto?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daz ships worldwide. Or you could select the P12s or Vardar F4-ERs locally. Or we could just pickup Daz and drop him off in London. So many options...


well, a little trip to Toronto would be well accepted









The vardar are good also in pull?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jobba*
> 
> well, a little trip to Toronto would be well accepted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vardar are good also in pull?


Pretty much identical to the GTs. As seen in Cyclops tests
Quote:


> ..While on pull, there was no advantage to be seen using either fan.


The F4 Extended Range models are compelling, can spin down to 25% PWM and available in all white or black versions, so they look pretty too.

We'll have our crack team of sailors launch their low-noise fan powered sailing vessel right away. If you don't hear from them in 3-6 months, assume they were held up at customs or sunk by water cooled pirates off the coast of Greenland.


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I think Vardars are better than P12s
> 
> You can get the EK Vardar F3 (1850rpm PWM) for £10.02 on Amazon
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/120mm-Vardar-F3-120-Fan-EK/dp/B00SIZI1HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437592183&sr=8-1&keywords=ek+vardar+f3
> 
> NF-P12 are £17.49 each.


Vardars whine, a lot!


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> Vardars whine, a lot!


Not as much as many posters here.









I don't find my F2s to 'whine' much at all. And my F1s are whineless. Which models did you find were whiners?


----------



## Jobba

I have a possible offer for the vardar f4 or the ff5 for 12 £ each, after all, I think I ll go with them


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Not as much as many posters here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find my F2s to 'whine' much at all. And my F1s are whineless. Which models did you find were whiners?


I like cheese with my whine.


----------



## M3TAl

A few questions for you fan experts.

I have 10 Cougar Vortex all running off PWM from a Commander Mini(among other things) using 2 Swiftech 8-way splitters. These fans have always emitted some kind of tone/pitch when running on PWM. It's highly irritating. It has nothing to do with the Commander Mini as even before using that the fans did the same from mobo PWM (Gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 & Z97 MPOWER).

The tone/pitch and intensity changes depending on the PWM %. Also awhile back on the 990FXA-UD3 when using speedfan and changing the PWMOUT clock the tone/pitch would change drastically depending on the setting. It also changed at what RPM the tone/pitch was most/least prevalent at.

Is this PWM tone/pitch noise normal with all PWM fans? Or is something wrong? Or do the Vortex just make PWM noise and I should be looking at other fans? I keep the fans around 800 RPM 90% of the time if that matters. While the fan/air noise is low at this RPM there is still that annoying tone/pitch in the background. If running them at 800 RPM on voltage control there is no such noise.


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Not as much as many posters here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find my F2s to 'whine' much at all. And my F1s are whineless. Which models did you find were whiners?


The 2200 that DazMode tested (you can listen to sound qualities at various noise levels at his channel). You can hear the motor immediately at 850 RPM and above.


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> A few questions for you fan experts.
> 
> I have 10 Cougar Vortex all running off PWM from a Commander Mini(among other things) using 2 Swiftech 8-way splitters. These fans have always emitted some kind of tone/pitch when running on PWM. It's highly irritating. It has nothing to do with the Commander Mini as even before using that the fans did the same from mobo PWM (Gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 & Z97 MPOWER).
> 
> The tone/pitch and intensity changes depending on the PWM %. Also awhile back on the 990FXA-UD3 when using speedfan and changing the PWMOUT clock the tone/pitch would change drastically depending on the setting. It also changed at what RPM the tone/pitch was most/least prevalent at.
> 
> Is this PWM tone/pitch noise normal with all PWM fans? Or is something wrong? Or do the Vortex just make PWM noise and I should be looking at other fans? I keep the fans around 800 RPM 90% of the time if that matters. While the fan/air noise is low at this RPM there is still that annoying tone/pitch in the background. If running them at 800 RPM on voltage control there is no such noise.


Usually PWMs have only one weakness: poor undervolting resulting in clicking sounds. I've never heard one produce sustained tones, unless you want to call the Vardar 2200's noise a tone and not motor whine.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> The 2200 that DazMode tested (you can listen to sound qualities at various noise levels at his channel). You can hear the motor immediately at 850 RPM and above.


First, he is a retailer pretending to be an objective 'reviewer' - His bias is subtle (or obvious).

Second, Dazmode videos and noise level testing is an oxymoron. Like most YT channels audio recording quality is job #5001. There's so much low end garbage in his signal path that it obliterates subtle fan noise characteristics. When he cleans up his recording signal path, then I may take his reviews more seriously than self-promoting infotainment. Many YT 'review' channels mic selection and placement are biased towards what they want you to hear.

Check out ehume's YT channel to see and hear how valid fan testing can be done. Even those have sonic limitations. Compressed and bit-starved stereo audio played back on consumer level audio gear is at best a crude approximation of the acoustic environment of fans in use.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> Usually PWMs have only one weakness: poor undervolting resulting in clicking sounds. I've never heard one produce sustained tones, unless you want to call the Vardar 2200's noise a tone and not motor whine.


It is definitely not a clicking/mechanical sound. I would describe it as a somewhat high frequency pitch. It's difficult to describe. When running the fans at ~800 RPM on voltage control the noise is non-existent.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> First, he is a retailer pretending to be an objective 'reviewer' - His bias is subtle (or obvious).
> 
> Second, Dazmode videos and noise level testing is an oxymoron. Like most YT channels audio recording quality is job #5001. There's so much low end garbage in his signal path that it obliterates subtle fan noise characteristics. When he cleans up his recording signal path, then I may take his reviews more seriously than self-promoting infotainment. Many YT 'review' channels mic selection and placement are biased towards what they want you to hear.
> 
> Check out ehume's YT channel to see and hear how valid fan testing can be done. Even those have sonic limitations. Compressed and bit-starved stereo audio played back on consumer level audio gear is at best a crude approximation of the acoustic environment of fans in use.


True, Dazmode is selling the fans, but they are good fans. Thermalbench tested them too
http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/10/darkside-gentle-typhoon-black-edition-2150rpm-120mm-fan/
This graph makes it obvious how well the Vardar and GT perform.


I don't find ehume in a YouTube search, and the Ed Hume I find is a gardener.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> True, Dazmode is selling the fans, but they are good fans. Thermalbench tested them too
> http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/10/darkside-gentle-typhoon-black-edition-2150rpm-120mm-fan/
> This graph makes it obvious how well the Vardar and GT perform.
> 
> 
> I don't find ehume in a YouTube search, and the Ed Hume I find is a gardener.


Agree that the GTs and Vardars are great fans. But, if my GTs and Vardars sounded like the any of the fans in a Daz video, they'd be crushed into case fan compost.

Yeah, that's him, Ed Hume the Air Cooled Gardener!









Maybe it's not TY, but some other video site. Will check and update within the decade. Please stand by.


----------



## patrickjp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> First, he is a retailer pretending to be an objective 'reviewer' - His bias is subtle (or obvious).
> 
> Second, Dazmode videos and noise level testing is an oxymoron. Like most YT channels audio recording quality is job #5001. There's so much low end garbage in his signal path that it obliterates subtle fan noise characteristics. When he cleans up his recording signal path, then I may take his reviews more seriously than self-promoting infotainment. Many YT 'review' channels mic selection and placement are biased towards what they want you to hear.
> 
> Check out ehume's YT channel to see and hear how valid fan testing can be done. Even those have sonic limitations. Compressed and bit-starved stereo audio played back on consumer level audio gear is at best a crude approximation of the acoustic environment of fans in use.


You can listen to the quality yourself with the demonstrated fan distances. And there's nothing in the way! It's 6 inches of raw air with nothing in between the microphone and it. Actually look at the video instead of slandering the man.





Please proceed to edit out your BS.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> You can listen to the quality yourself with the demonstrated fan distances. And there's nothing in the way! It's 6 inches of raw air with nothing in between the microphone and it. Actually look at the video instead of slandering the man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please proceed to edit out your BS.


I'm not 'slandering' anyone. I've watched most of his videos - the audio quality is not good - if you can't hear it, get a better playback chain or put a spectrum analyzer on it and see the low frequency garbage. To say there's nothing between the fan, but raw air, disregards the recording environment which is polluted with a high level of background noise. While there is a difference in sonic profiles between various fans, close micing fans in a properly controlled environment (which this isn't) is difficult and variable enough that results are easily manipulated. Microphones don't work like our ears, especially in close. That's a topic for a whole other forum.

Not the first to complain about his primitive audio signal path. And I've suggested to him that he use a better recording path. I've spent years in the pro audio biz, so when presented with amateur recording techniques passed off as professional, I will complain. If his audio quality meets your standards, great. They don't meet mine. I'm not picking on just his channel. JayZ is worse. Sticking his lapel mic in front of a fan. Really? Most YT review channels suffer from home-movie quality audio. At best. Then YT's bit-crushers mangle further.

I'm sorry if my critique of his YT channel feels like slander to you. It's not. I really like Daz. I've purchased lots of stuff from his shop. It's a great shop. And I value his opinions. But, he has put himself in the position of 'fair and objective' reviewer AND self-interested retailer. His channel has the same credibility as newegg or other retail promotional channel. Which is great. Yay for marketing! For objective reviews there's better options.


----------



## doyll

MicroCat is right on the money. These fan audios / videos are generally being record without the use of audiophile microphones. They need ot be done with full spectrum low noise flat microphones, otherwise they are not hearing what our ears hear and obviously when played back are not reproducing the same sound the fan makes.

Another problem is no standard for the distance the noise meter is away from noise source. The "normal" standard is 1 meter. If memory serves, the difference between sound level at 10cm and 1 meter is 20dBA. Meaning a fan making 40dba at 10 cm will be 20dBA at 1 meter. And 20dBA is quieter than even a quiet bedroom.


----------



## patrickjp93

The distance was always 6", and even with background pollution, you can clearly hear the fans over everything, and the decibel readings are accurate. If CoolingTechnique would remotely keep up (3 videos every 2 months at best), I'd happily go with them.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patrickjp93*
> 
> The distance was always 6", and even with background pollution, you can clearly hear the fans over everything, and the decibel readings are accurate. If CoolingTechnique would remotely keep up (3 videos every 2 months at best), I'd happily go with them.


Here's the issue I have with close micing fans - it is not a real world use case - or in this case real world perception. Close micing any sound source is fraught with acoustic distortions - especially when directional mics are employed.

Using a close mic to test fans is like using a microscope to analyze a LCD monitor. It's useful to determine sub-pixel alignment, however, it's not how we generally view our monitors. We view them from a far greater distance. Close micing presents an exaggerated sonic image. As do SPL measurements at 6" - Nearfield measurements are only useful when the device under test is expected to be deployed in a nearfield scenario.

If we all sat within 6" of our fans these sort of tests would have a valid premise. Altho the testers would still need to ensure exact angle of incidence, mic and signal path calibration. And the background noise pollution is still a factor due to frequency masking effects.

However, we don't sit 6" away from our system fans (hopefully). We're more likely to be 1/2 to 1+ meter from the spinning noise sources. Tests conducted at those distances would be more informative - and more difficult to perform - as the room and gear would need be of much higher quality than the prosumer stuff most YT reviews are created with.

Doyll touched on this. Distance. For doubling of distance, SPL drops 6dB from a point source (a single fan acts like a point source). Also energy absorption and resonant characteristics of the mounting/case/room environment are very relevant in the real world.

These top speed 'muscle' tests are not useful - unless we run all our fans at top speed all the time. If we do, then it's better stuffed in a server room than on/under a desktop. High speed testing to me is just more easy clickbait journalism.

What I expect to see in a professional fan review is the performance/noise from starting rpm to top speed - mounted in both push and pull positions. Free-standing fan tests tell us nothing about in-use scenarios. Valid tests need to be performed in a freefield environment (professionally treated/calibrated room at min).

I may post about sound characteristics that few reviews even mention. For example - Low Q resonances are tough to measure but our brain's pattern matching aural perception are sensitive to them.


----------



## AlienPrime173

Any chance of adding the new Koolance 120x38 rad fans!? (12038HBK)


----------



## doyll

Martin did a decent job in his reviews.
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/fan-testing-round-11/
Not perfect, but good for an "at home" testing.







The mic is manual control but only 48kbps


----------



## Said Nobody

So the best fans are for low noise and budget??

Currently I have these which is way better then corsair stock fans that came with the h100i


----------



## katarakt

Very great fan test here, but the best silent fans are missing! Are they hard to get outside the EU?

Noiseblocker eLoop
BeQuiet! Silent Wings 2


----------



## KaiserPhantasma

thanks for this as this really helps the decision making A LOT =D


----------



## psychok9

Guys, I want change the stock HAF-XM Coolermaster *140mm fan* on the back (exhaust).
A lot of comparisons are CPU/Rad/high pressure oriented, but I'm looking for *the best fan for get out heat from my case*, without jet noise in background or high pitch sound.
Have you any suggestion?


----------



## AlienPrime173

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psychok9*
> 
> Guys, I want change the stock HAF-XM Coolermaster *140mm fan* on the back (exhaust).
> A lot of comparisons are CPU/Rad/high pressure oriented, but I'm looking for *the best fan for get out heat from my case*, without jet noise in background or high pitch sound.
> Have you any suggestion?


Get a sanyo san ace and run it 40% on your own controller. Push it to 50% if therr is really a lot of heat. If you own ear plugs with ear muffs you can put ontop then crank it up to 100% and get out of the neoghboorhood. You won't even hear it and your computer will be hella cool


----------



## Helmbo

Would be awesome to see a Aerocool DS 140mm review aswell.


----------



## speaker1264

Hey, this is this most comprehensive fan guide I've ever seen and I like it very much. My only gripe is that there is data missing that I think is more useful than any other. I think the best way to compare performance to noise is not to compare the noise levels at the highest speed, but instead to do the exact opposite, compare the performance at the same noise level. We all know that increasing fan speed will have a diminishing return in terms of performance relative to the noise output. But if instead you test all the fans at the same noise level, say 30 dba, we will have a better and more complete picture of each fan's performance.

Just my 2c, thanks for the guide.


----------



## Helmbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speaker1264*
> 
> Hey, this is this most comprehensive fan guide I've ever seen and I like it very much. My only gripe is that there is data missing that I think is more useful than any other. I think the best way to compare performance to noise is not to compare the noise levels at the highest speed, but instead to do the exact opposite, compare the performance at the same noise level. We all know that increasing fan speed will have a diminishing return in terms of performance relative to the noise output. If you test all the fans at the same noise level, say 30 dba, we will have a better and more complete picture of each fan's performance.
> 
> Just my 2c, thanks for the guide.


not a bad idea at all!


----------



## mindwarper

The EK F4-120 and EK F4-120ER are interesting indeed...
What about the EK FF5-120







?

Now if there would be a mainland Europe reseller for the GT 2150 rpm fan's I would be happy..
Does any1 know if one actually exists...? I know about Mayhems in UK, but if have not read experience reports of them... So I am not entirely sure what thery service and quality is like...

So in short me want the GT 2150 ones, PWM or not (I don't mind much)...
I have a Lamptron Touch Fancontroller for 6 fans


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mindwarper*
> 
> The EK F4-120 and EK F4-120ER are interesting indeed...
> What about the EK FF5-120
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Now if there would be a mainland Europe reseller for the GT 2150 rpm fan's I would be happy..
> Does any1 know if one actually exists...? I know about Mayhems in UK, but if have not read experience reports of them... So I am not entirely sure what thery service and quality is like...
> 
> So in short me want the GT 2150 ones, PWM or not (I don't mind much)...
> I have a Lamptron Touch Fancontroller for 6 fans


Are you asking about Mayhems customer service? If so it's exceptional. They'll bend over backwards for you.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Are you asking about Mayhems customer service? If so it's exceptional. They'll bend over backwards for you.


PG-13. Suggestive theme.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> PG-13. Suggestive theme.


It's a common saying here in our part of the country







. No sexually suggestive themes intended


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *speaker1264*
> 
> Hey, this is this most comprehensive fan guide I've ever seen and I like it very much. My only gripe is that there is data missing that I think is more useful than any other. I think the best way to compare performance to noise is not to compare the noise levels at the highest speed, but instead to do the exact opposite, compare the performance at the same noise level. We all know that increasing fan speed will have a diminishing return in terms of performance relative to the noise output. But if instead you test all the fans at the same noise level, say 30 dba, we will have a better and more complete picture of each fan's performance.
> 
> Just my 2c, thanks for the guide.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helmbo*
> 
> not a bad idea at all!


Great idea! Except for the the uber-high speed hero fans - they will be reduced to mere plebeian levels. Hitechlegion and Tweaktown include dB limited results in their cooler tests and oh my, most AIOs suffer heatstroke when dB limited.


----------



## Said Nobody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Said Nobody*
> 
> So the best fans are for low noise and budget??
> 
> Currently I have these which is way better then corsair stock fans that came with the h100i


anyone?

Sadly they discontinued the gentle typhooons. Found some on Amazon and they are expensive in the UK. £36 for one. Where as noctua is doing £15.

I am looking at the result and see the arctic cooling f12 doing a really good job :S


----------



## psychok9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlienPrime173*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *psychok9*
> 
> Guys, I want change the stock HAF-XM Coolermaster *140mm fan* on the back (exhaust).
> A lot of comparisons are CPU/Rad/high pressure oriented, but I'm looking for *the best fan for get out heat from my case*, without jet noise in background or high pitch sound.
> Have you any suggestion?
> 
> 
> 
> Get a sanyo san ace and run it 40% on your own controller. Push it to 50% if therr is really a lot of heat. If you own ear plugs with ear muffs you can put ontop then crank it up to 100% and get out of the neoghboorhood. You won't even hear it and your computer will be hella cool
Click to expand...

I can't set the fan at 100%, it was a waste







(I take care of my ears and I live with some people







)
I need a fan with max 25-30db.
I can manually set the speed of the fans at 1/4 - 2/4 - 3/4 and 4/4 (3 pin).


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Said Nobody*
> 
> anyone?
> 
> Sadly they discontinued the gentle typhooons. Found some on Amazon and they are expensive in the UK. £36 for one. Where as noctua is doing £15.
> 
> I am looking at the result and see the arctic cooling f12 doing a really good job :S


I was using 4-AC F12s in my case and at 100% they are nearly silent. Birds chirping and squirrels chittering outside are louder.

They moved the air through the case very well until I got a 290X. It has messed up the airflow and the CPU is running 4C warmer now so I am upgrading fans. Installed one Silverstone FM121 and it helps but need at least one more.


----------



## Said Nobody

Guys, do you have your fans below the radiation or above the radiator?


----------



## Said Nobody

How do I get a low noise adapter?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Said Nobody*
> 
> How do I get a low noise adapter?


http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=fan+speed+reducer&_sop=15


----------



## TechCrazy

Are there any fans left for you to test and do you need them?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TechCrazy*
> 
> Are there any fans left for you to test and do you need them?


There are still plenty of fish in the sea. I've got quite a few that I haven't gone over yet mainly because of time constraints.


----------



## contay

Hmm. What fan could you recommend for push/pull for Kraken X41? They could be different for push and pull if it is wiser somehow. I am planning Akasa apaches but I could always use an advice. Something similiary balanced between pressure, noise and airflow would be great.


----------



## Said Nobody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contay*
> 
> Hmm. What fan could you recommend for push/pull for Kraken X41? They could be different for push and pull if it is wiser somehow. I am planning Akasa apaches but I could always use an advice. Something similiary balanced between pressure, noise and airflow would be great.


I just recently got some new gear. I was running push/pull setup but then changed the set-up to pull and on a average day it only made a difference if a few degrees. I would recommend going only push.

I would say if your going to go push/pull then get some decent stuff, it all depends on how picky you are with noise, do you want to try and eliminate all noise, have a slight noise in the background?


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Said Nobody*
> 
> I just recently got some new gear. I was running push/pull setup but then changed the set-up to pull and on a average day it only made a difference if a few degrees. I would recommend going only push.
> 
> I would say if your going to go push/pull then get some decent stuff, it all depends on how picky you are with noise, do you want to try and eliminate all noise, have a slight noise in the background?


I accept some noise (C'mon Haf XB with two gpus with Windforce 3x, there is no silence) as I have headset nearly always. I was thinking spectre pro pwms as they offer more airflow conpared to akasas with slightly louder voice level and I could start with push only.


----------



## Cyclops

Spectre pros are one of the worst fans in existence. Avoid like the plague.


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Spectre pros are one of the worst fans in existence. Avoid like the plague.


Okay. I might also avoid one friend of mine who tried to sell some spectre pros for me. But 230mm spectre NOT pro works rather well on my haf xb as top exhaust.

I also might arrange suprise date for my friend with my Saab 900 on 120km/h.


----------



## Cyclops

Original Spectres are okay, Spectre Pros are anything but.


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Original Spectres are okay, Spectre Pros are anything but.


Would there be better fan choise for top exhaust on my Haf XB?


----------



## TechCrazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contay*
> 
> I accept some noise (C'mon Haf XB with two gpus with Windforce 3x, there is no silence) as I have headset nearly always. I was thinking spectre pro pwms as they offer more airflow conpared to akasas with slightly louder voice level and I could start with push only.


Honestly if your going with 140mm fans I have to suggest the Phanteks PH-F140SP.

My way of things are get a good set of fans and move them from build to build. Trust me its worth spending another $50-60 bucks on much better airflow fans or in my case quiet but still getting awesome airflow.


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TechCrazy*
> 
> Honestly if your going with 140mm fans I have to suggest the Phanteks PH-F140SP.
> 
> My way of things are get a good set of fans and move them from build to build. Trust me its worth spending another $50-60 bucks on much better airflow fans or in my case quiet but still getting awesome airflow.


Those are good but Akasas I already own so they are not new investment. Also, I scrapped the radiator and AiO as I did some modding and I can now have good top exhaust while having NH-D14 cooler. But, I checked phanteks fans and PH-F140HP PWM Fan seems solid choice for replacement fans for my cooler. I never had original fans as I bought the heatsink second hand and I have been using TY-147 there but one of them is now failing.


----------



## scorpinot

Notify me when the power consumption benchmarks are added.


----------



## exousia

Fantastic thread! Definitely helped in building out for my rig.


----------



## reev3r

Okay, so I am curious...

I am looking at replacing my current array of fans, based partially on price and reviews...

I currently have a single 3-pin Noctua 140mm iPPC fan (Intake for the case), two Noctua 140mm Redux PWM 1,200 RPM fans (on my 560mm radiator) and two Bitfenix Spectre fans (also on my 560mm radiator).

I currently do not have any fans on my 280mm radiator. Inasmuch I would like to either add all Noctua Redux fans to have them all match, but given their price (even though less than the regular Noctua fans), I would like to get something a little bit less, since I need a minimum of 7 fans even a couple of dollars becomes significant. I had ordered 8 Phanteks F140XP fans until I realized that they were the XP models.

Which brings me to my actual question. What is the difference between the MP, SP, TS, XP, HP and HP II versions of the fans? I ordered the XP version and ended up cancelling the order after seeing that the version reviewed was the TS version. I can not imagine that there is a significant difference between them, but you really never know. I can go on the Phanteks website and see the specified differences, but I am more interested in the empirical evidence instead of their 'scientific' evidence...

If anybody is able to assist me in making this decision it would be greatly appreciated!

Right now Newegg has a 20% deal on the fans until the 24th, and I saved ~$30 on the order, so if I could get a solid suggestion on which fans to order by then it would be fantastic and greatly appreciated!

Normally the cost would not be a *significant* factor, but I am dealing with some serious medical issues right now and with medical expenses and being unemployed, every little bit helps.

Any assistance is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thank you all!


----------



## MicroCat

Understand your concern. I've bought the non-optimum F140 version before. Phanteks could do a better job of explaining the design differences.

7 blades with MVB 2
F140MP (140mm, PWM, 500-1600rpm 1.62 mm H2O)
F140 HP II(140mm round frame, PWM, 500-1600rpm 1.62mm H2O)

9 blades with MVB
F140XP (140mm, PWM, 300-1200rpm 1.52mm H2O)
F140SP (140mm, 3pin, 1200rpm 1.33mm H2O)
F140HP (140mm round frame, PWM, 600-1300rpm 1.64mm H2O)

9 blades with MVB and triangle struts
F140TS (140mm, 3pin, 1200rpm 1.21mm H2O)

The 7 blade MP/HP II models have higher static pressure than the 9 blade models like the XP. Except the 9 blade HP matches/bests the static pressure of the 7 blade models. Sheesh!

F140MP review at Thermalbench - tested on a rad.

F140XP review at HiTech - only tested as a case fan tho.

SPCR F140HP review

On a rad, the MP and HP are the best choices. The MP is $2 cheaper - it's the budget winner.


----------



## Blaise170

What would you all recommend for best noise/performance radiator fans? I bought some of the Noctua Redux NF-P14 but I ended up with a 240mm radiator so I can't use them. I don't mind price too much but I'd prefer not to spend more than like $15 or so per fan.


----------



## MicroCat

The TR TY series use 120mm fan mounts. The TY-147A is 14.95 at Nans and is doyll's fave fan in the fan performance and decor world.


----------



## Blaise170

Those sound interesting but will they fit a 240mm rad? It looks like they are designed for 280mm.


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Understand your concern. I've bought the non-optimum F140 version before. Phanteks could do a better job of explaining the design differences.
> 
> 7 blades with MVB 2
> F140MP (140mm, PWM, 500-1600rpm 1.62 mm H2O)
> F140 HP II(140mm round frame, PWM, 500-1600rpm 1.62mm H2O)
> 
> 9 blades with MVB
> F140XP (140mm, PWM, 300-1200rpm 1.52mm H2O)
> F140SP (140mm, 3pin, 1200rpm 1.33mm H2O)
> F140HP (140mm round frame, PWM, 600-1300rpm 1.64mm H2O)
> 
> 9 blades with MVB and triangle struts
> F140TS (140mm, 3pin, 1200rpm 1.21mm H2O)
> 
> The 7 blade MP/HP II models have higher static pressure than the 9 blade models like the XP. Except the 9 blade HP matches/bests the static pressure of the 7 blade models. Sheesh!
> 
> F140MP review at Thermalbench - tested on a rad.
> 
> F140XP review at HiTech - only tested as a case fan tho.
> 
> SPCR F140HP review
> 
> On a rad, the MP and HP are the best choices. The MP is $2 cheaper - it's the budget winner.


Fantastic! Thank you for the quick rundown... I did end up finding the Phanteks page late last night, and getting a basic overview of the fans, but I ended up getting mixed up on models with needing to switch back and forth between them, and I was very tired so I wasn't up to making a spreadsheet of the fans/specs.

I did want to add one quick thing though, the XP model can be had for a little bit less than the other models if you buy in bulk on Newegg (That is, 6+ fans are $16.99 instead of the $17.99), plus all of the Phanteks fans are currently 20% off with the promo code of PHANTEKS15AUG.

Here is the link to their currently in stock selection of Phanteks fans. Hopefully this is of some use/savings to someone out there, it is certainly going to save me a significant amount over the Noctua fans I was planning to purchase (plus the two I already have, glad I am switching though, these things do NOT match my build... lol)

Thank you again!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaise170*
> 
> Those sound interesting but will they fit a 240mm rad? It looks like they are designed for 280mm.


They won't fit on a 240 radiator. NF-P12s are your best bet.


----------



## Blaise170

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> They won't fit on a 240 radiator. NF-P12s are your best bet.


I know they'll be a bit louder but what about the NF-F12? They have slightly better performance according to this:


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reev3r*
> 
> Fantastic! Thank you for the quick rundown... I did end up finding the Phanteks page late last night, and getting a basic overview of the fans, but I ended up getting mixed up on models with needing to switch back and forth between them, and I was very tired so I wasn't up to making a spreadsheet of the fans/specs.
> 
> I did want to add one quick thing though, the XP model can be had for a little bit less than the other models if you buy in bulk on Newegg (That is, 6+ fans are $16.99 instead of the $17.99), plus all of the Phanteks fans are currently 20% off with the promo code of PHANTEKS15AUG.
> 
> Here is the link to their currently in stock selection of Phanteks fans. Hopefully this is of some use/savings to someone out there, it is certainly going to save me a significant amount over the Noctua fans I was planning to purchase (plus the two I already have, glad I am switching though, these things do NOT match my build... lol)
> 
> Thank you again!


Oh I see...it's a quantity discount thing. Ok. Then the XP just moved up to the #1.5 slot. ;-) Just found this post with a happy 140XP user on a rad here - The XP will spin slower and quieter - so that's something.

After coupon and qty disc.
140MP - $14.39
140XP - $13.59

Think that's a $.80 saving per fan. However, the XP has lower static pressure, only you can decide if the extra $6.40 savings is worth it.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaise170*
> 
> I know they'll be a bit louder but what about the NF-F12? They have slightly better performance according to this:


The F12s have a more unpleasant noise signature compared to the P12s tho.

What about the Vardar PWM 120mm - F3 or F4ER are very good as well.


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Oh I see...it's a quantity discount thing. Ok. Then the XP just moved up to the #1.5 slot. ;-) Just found this post with a happy 140XP user on a rad here - The XP will spin slower and quieter - so that's something.
> 
> After coupon and qty disc.
> 140MP - $14.39
> 140XP - $13.59
> 
> Think that's a $.80 saving per fan. However, the XP has lower static pressure, only you can decide if the extra $6.40 savings is worth it.


I ended up going with the MP SKU, I feel that over time they will prove to be the better choice, simply because they will be going on radiators, and I have a homemade dust filter on the radiators as well, the extra little bit of static pressure will likely help in my situation.

The fabric is a light, breathable black fabric that I got from WallyWorld for $2.55 per sq yd, I ended up getting 2sq yds of it so I can filter all of my gaming rig, plus my server and all of the fans I have throughout the house. I have heard of people using all manner of things, from dryer sheets to pantyhose, and it shocks me that nobody has ever thought of just using some plain fabric. It works amazingly well without obstructing airflow significantly, it's durable, washable, and super cheap. The best part of all, it comes in any color you could possibly need for your rig... Sorry, a bit of a side rant/useful tip for everyone. lol


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reev3r*
> 
> I ended up going with the MP SKU, I feel that over time they will prove to be the better choice, simply because they will be going on radiators, and I have a homemade dust filter on the radiators as well, the extra little bit of static pressure will likely help in my situation.
> 
> The fabric is a light, breathable black fabric that I got from WallyWorld for $2.55 per sq yd, I ended up getting 2sq yds of it so I can filter all of my gaming rig, plus my server and all of the fans I have throughout the house. I have heard of people using all manner of things, from dryer sheets to pantyhose, and it shocks me that nobody has ever thought of just using some plain fabric. It works amazingly well without obstructing airflow significantly, it's durable, washable, and super cheap. The best part of all, it comes in any color you could possibly need for your rig... Sorry, a bit of a side rant/useful tip for everyone. lol


Intrigued about this fabric. Have a model number and manufacturer link?









I like to use the cheap, cut-to-size, washable, woven furnace filters - work better than the fiberglass ones and non-toxic. The dirtier they get, the better they filter. But, they look horrible and only come in dark blue.


----------



## epic1337

anyone tried silk-screen sheets? the ones used for screen printing.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> anyone tried silk-screen sheets? the ones used for screen printing.


Oh my, if they did work...then think of the artist freedom.....a new look every week or day...Cooled by Monet one day, Dali the next. Pollock intake filter the day after.


----------



## IcarusLSC

Cool to see comparisons but I cant read any on my monitor. Too small...


----------



## _Chimera

I'm happy with my gentle typhoons, but looking at your charts I have to say Noctua makes some damn impressive fans.

I would love to upgrade but the damn GTs refuse to die, even after so many years


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_Chimera*
> 
> I'm happy with my gentle typhoons, but looking at your charts I have to say Noctua makes some damn impressive fans.
> 
> I would love to upgrade but the damn GTs refuse to die, even after so many years


That's what happens when you buy quality products. Sucks, but there it is.

And that's why re-purposing of older quality products is one of the better justifications for upgrading....


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Intrigued about this fabric. Have a model number and manufacturer link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like to use the cheap, cut-to-size, washable, woven furnace filters - work better than the fiberglass ones and non-toxic. The dirtier they get, the better they filter. But, they look horrible and only come in dark blue.


Unfortunately there isn't really a manufacturer/model number, just go into the crafts section of you local 'insert HAS EVERYTHING store here', and browse through all of the fabrics to find whatever breathes well and suits your other needs. I personally always use black, since it matches my rig and allows me to easily see the dust buildup for washing. Some of the fabrics can get 'quite expensive' (that being a relative term) at $5/sq yd, but even then, a single yd should be sufficient for most computers (is that is the intended application. 

As a side note, I am very excited to get my Phanteks fans installed, saved ~$30 with the 20% code, and a little bit more by choosing the correct fans for my application (radiators), although in retrospect I should have selected a single airflow fan, since one of them will be an intake for the motherboard chamber in my case. Meh, could have done worse, surely.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reev3r*
> 
> Unfortunately there isn't really a manufacturer/model number, just go into the crafts section of you local 'insert HAS EVERYTHING store here', and browse through all of the fabrics to find whatever breathes well and suits your other needs. I personally always use black, since it matches my rig and allows me to easily see the dust buildup for washing. Some of the fabrics can get 'quite expensive' (that being a relative term) at $5/sq yd, but even then, a single yd should be sufficient for most computers (is that is the intended application.
> 
> As a side note, I am very excited to get my Phanteks fans installed, saved ~$30 with the 20% code, and a little bit more by choosing the correct fans for my application (radiators), although in retrospect I should have selected a single airflow fan, since one of them will be an intake for the motherboard chamber in my case. Meh, could have done worse, surely.


What else would one use a stretchy dark fabric for?









Think it'll be just fine with a high static pressure intake fan. Better that than the alternative.


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> What else would one use a stretchy dark fabric for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think it'll be just fine with a high static pressure intake fan. Better that than the alternative.


Yeah, I have been using it for some time now in several different systems, and with a varied selection of fans (from Noctua NF-F12 iPPC fans, to the bottom of the barrel cheap $10 for 3 fans Rosewill junkbot fans, and they all perform perfectly well).

However, as a bit of a suggestion, make sure that you are filtering the fans on the intake side of the fans (pretty sure I don't strictly need to tell anybody, but as a matter of course and due diligence...), because it appears that the fans have a harder time pushing air through the fabric than pulling air through. As well, using it on the intake side will also help to keep the fans clean, thus increasing longevity...


----------



## Blaise170

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_Chimera*
> 
> I'm happy with my gentle typhoons, but looking at your charts I have to say Noctua makes some damn impressive fans.
> 
> I would love to upgrade but the damn GTs refuse to die, even after so many years


Ha I don't think I've ever had a fan die on me, but I don't buy the cheap junk either.







Never had Noctuas before but hopefully the new ones I got last me a nice long time.


----------



## Ceadderman

Question: Can GTS be had in 140 flavor?

Reason I ask is cause I'm pulling the trigger on 9 AP15s for my Radiators and want a 140 to match. If I cannot find a GT in 140, I will likely go with a Vardar as my case exhaust. Just need to know and if I can, where might I find one. I checked Google and nothing came up besides this thread.









~Ceadder


----------



## MicroCat

Nope. Nidec doesn't make 140mm GTs. The new Vardar 140mm PWM is the most 'compatible' option.


----------



## Ceadderman

That's what I was thinking. So which should I get to match the soundprint of nine AP15s and still keep the Grey hub.









Oh an +Rep for the speedy confirmation.









~Ceadder


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> That's what I was thinking. So which should I get to match the soundprint of nine AP15s and still keep the Grey hub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh an +Rep for the speedy confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


The Vardar F3-140 ER because of it's rpm range. As graph shows, F1 has limited RPM range while F2 & F3 are near identical curve with F3 having 400 RPM at the top.
You will probably rarely if ever use the maximum RPM,/ airflow, but it's there if you ever need it.


----------



## Ceadderman

Thank you. Tossed one in my cart to replace the nine Vardars the nine GTs made expendable. EK will still get my monies, just in other ways.









+Rep to you sir.









~Ceadder


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Thank you. Tossed one in my cart to replace the nine Vardars the nine GTs made expendable. EK will still get my monies, just in other ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +Rep to you sir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Thanks,
I many not know much, but at least some of it is useful.


----------



## IcarusLSC

Any way to make the charts bigger so I can read them? Thxs


----------



## juanitox

Hey guys!

I have some questions. I want to keep my case as coolest as possible, usually where I live the temperature goes around 25° and my CPU (AMD A8 [email protected]) temps stay around 40°C with ligh use and around 50°C - 52°C with high loads, that's using a CM Hyper 212 EVO (stock fan and SickleFlow 120 in push pull).

I got a Thermaltake Commander MS-I as case, with 1 front-bottom intake fan (Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition), 1 bottom intake fan (Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition), 1 rear-top exhaust fan (Aerocool Shark 120mm).

I still think my temps could do better. I was planning to install 2 top exhaust fans, they gotta be slim so they can fit, also they could be 120mm or 140mm with 120mm mount holes.

Would this improve my temperatures without causing problems with the airflow? If that's so, which fans would you recommend me?

Also there's an option for an intake fan on the side for the videocard, would you recommend me installing one there too?

Thanks in advance for your help


----------



## IcarusLSC

Anyone?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IcarusLSC*
> 
> Anyone?


No one is available at this time, but I suggest downloading the images and re-size to suit locally. Or you can right-click on the image and select view.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Hey guys!
> 
> I have some questions. I want to keep my case as coolest as possible, usually where I live the temperature goes around 25° and my CPU (AMD A8 [email protected]) temps stay around 40°C with ligh use and around 50°C - 52°C with high loads, that's using a CM Hyper 212 EVO (stock fan and SickleFlow 120 in push pull).
> 
> I got a Thermaltake Commander MS-I as case, with 1 front-bottom intake fan (Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition), 1 bottom intake fan (Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition), 1 rear-top exhaust fan (Aerocool Shark 120mm).
> 
> I still think my temps could do better. I was planning to install 2 top exhaust fans, they gotta be slim so they can fit, also they could be 120mm or 140mm with 120mm mount holes.
> 
> Would this improve my temperatures without causing problems with the airflow? If that's so, which fans would you recommend me?
> 
> Also there's an option for an intake fan on the side for the videocard, would you recommend me installing one there too?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help


Is that 212 mounted solidly? Your temperatures should be much lower unless you are running a big OC. I know someone running a 6800K on an A88X Pro @ 4.4 ghz and the temps never go over 40C when stress testing. It just has an Arctic Cooling A30 with one fan in pull blowing back to the case exhaust fan. Both fans are AC F12.


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Is that 212 mounted solidly? Your temperatures should be much lower unless you are running a big OC. I know someone running a 6800K on an A88X Pro @ 4.4 ghz and the temps never go over 40C when stress testing. It just has an Arctic Cooling A30 with one fan in pull blowing back to the case exhaust fan. Both fans are AC F12.


I think it is, it's holding up good in place, unless I missed something. I even reaseted it. But yeah I was expecting much better temps. I'm using it with Cooler Master ThermalFusion 400 compound.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Is that 212 mounted solidly? Your temperatures should be much lower unless you are running a big OC. I know someone running a 6800K on an A88X Pro @ 4.4 ghz and the temps never go over 40C when stress testing. It just has an Arctic Cooling A30 with one fan in pull blowing back to the case exhaust fan. Both fans are AC F12.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is, it's holding up good in place, unless I missed something. I even reaseted it. But yeah I was expecting much better temps. I'm using it with Cooler Master ThermalFusion 400 compound.
Click to expand...

You can get better Temps with Shin Etsu G751 I bet.









~Ceadder


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> You can get better Temps with Shin Etsu G751 I bet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Thanks! I will give it a try. Will order some with the fans. Now should I expect better temps by adding 2 exhaust fans on the top? I was thinking of the Thermaltake Luna 12 120mm Slim or the RAIJINTEK Aeolus a-BB, 140mm x 13mm


----------



## IcarusLSC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> No one is available at this time, but I suggest downloading the images and re-size to suit locally. Or you can right-click on the image and select view.


I tried that a bunch of times the other day etc, it only got bigger and blotchier and still couldn't read, but its working now, thanks


----------



## arealMESSiah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> That's what I was thinking. So which should I get to match the soundprint of nine AP15s and still keep the Grey hub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh an +Rep for the speedy confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


For future reference, there's always this mod option from lowfat, although it may not be as elegant or practical for all applications.


----------



## Said Nobody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_Chimera*
> 
> I'm happy with my gentle typhoons, but looking at your charts I have to say Noctua makes some damn impressive fans.
> 
> I would love to upgrade but the damn GTs refuse to die, even after so many years


I have noctua, but prefer the Gentle Typhoons in some cases. I only have one







sadly, they are hard to get in the UK.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juanitox*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> You can get better Temps with Shin Etsu G751 I bet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I will give it a try. Will order some with the fans. Now should I expect better temps by adding 2 exhaust fans on the top? I was thinking of the Thermaltake Luna 12 120mm Slim or the RAIJINTEK Aeolus a-BB, 140mm x 13mm
Click to expand...

I haven't used either fan. I had 212 and with G751 under it my 1100t reported 40c at Stock and ~48c with a minor push button clock. Folding 24/7 threw up Temps in the low 50s.

Cannot hurt to have a fan or two exhausting above the cooler however. Before my want of GTs, I ran Yates Loon high speed silent which actually perform pretty well despite their being cheap.









~Ceadder


----------



## juanitox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> I haven't used either fan. I had 212 and with G751 under it my 1100t reported 40c at Stock and ~48c with a minor push button clock. Folding 24/7 threw up Temps in the low 50s.
> 
> Cannot hurt to have a fan or two exhausting above the cooler however. Before my want of GTs, I ran Yates Loon high speed silent which actually perform pretty well despite their being cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Thanks for the info! I will give a try to that compund and I might get the 2 extra fans


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IcarusLSC*
> 
> I tried that a bunch of times the other day etc, it only got bigger and blotchier and still couldn't read, but its working now, thanks


It would seem something is amiss in your system. On mine with 1920x1080 they are easy to read.


----------



## IcarusLSC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> It would seem something is amiss in your system. On mine with 1920x1080 they are easy to read.


Good for you, way to be helpful. Thanks!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IcarusLSC*
> 
> Good for you, way to be helpful. Thanks!


No problem!
Glad you appreciated it.








So maybe you should figure out why you can 't get an image big enough to read instead of asking Cyclops to enlarge his already nicely sized images? Or just do what your name-sake did.


----------



## IcarusLSC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> No problem!
> Glad you appreciated it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So maybe you should figure out why you can 't get an image big enough to read instead of asking Cyclops to enlarge his already nicely sized images? Or just do what your name-sake did.


..or maybe you can actually read what you quoted originally?!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IcarusLSC*
> 
> ..or maybe you can actually read what you quoted originally?!


Or maybe you could have not posted your barbed reply in the first place.


----------



## IcarusLSC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Or maybe you could have not posted your barbed reply in the first place.


...says the one that said something was amiss with my system *after quoting me* saying I had it figured out...


----------



## Cyclops

lol.


----------



## M3TAl

Images are maybe a tiny, tiny bit on the small for me on 1080P but that's easily fixed by using gallery view or viewing original. Nothing to FREAK out over.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IcarusLSC*
> 
> ...says the one that said something was amiss with my system *after quoting me* saying I had it figured out...


So why didn't you start by looking for why you couldn't get images to proper size? Instead you think it's Cyclops' faluts because the images are too small. figure out the problem in the first place instead of asking for bigger image?

Just like so many out there. Always point the finger everywhere but at themselves.









Cyclops has put lots of time thought and money into doing these tests and all he gets is viewers comments. I appreciate what he has done here. It's a great source of fan data.


----------



## andre02

Hello and congratulations for the tests !








Could we make requests on new fans to be tested ? - I would like to see Scythe Grand Flex if possible.
Also is Nidec Gentle Typhoon not included in the charts, or havent i seen it ? It's a newer test maybe..

You have a website yet ? I was thinking of making one with A LOT of fans, with full specs, etc... but since you made this thread i don't know if it has a point now.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> Hello and congratulations for the tests !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could we make requests on new fans to be tested ? - I would like to see Scythe Grand Flex if possible.
> Also is Nidec Gentle Typhoon not included in the charts, or havent i seen it ? It's a newer test maybe..
> 
> You have a website yet ? I was thinking of making one with A LOT of fans, with full specs, etc... but since you made this thread i don't know if it has a point now.


Thanks. I don't usually take requests as there are plenty of models to go around and not enough money for them all. Nidec GTs have been tested.

This is it for now. No dedicated website.


----------



## andre02

I didn't see it in the noise/temperature chart, but maybe i've missed it..


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> I didn't see it in the noise/temperature chart, but maybe i've missed it..


I think it's there listed as Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B5AP-15


----------



## JbstormburstADV

OK, so quick question. I'm about to plan out a build using the Phanteks Enthoo Primo SE and I'm trying to figure out how many fans I should buy, and of which ones. I already know that I'm likely going to end up getting the Phanteks F140XPs for my rads, especially since the 20% discount is still live on Newegg. Is there a better options in regards to performance (cost non-withstanding) that I'm not aware of? Also, either way, as I'm going to go push/pull, should I get 12 of them for the max length of the top and bottom rads? If not, how many more or less? And are they also viable case fans in this instance, or should I buy different, since I figure I can also use one fan on the top drive bay, which I'll be keeping?


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> I didn't see it in the noise/temperature chart, but maybe i've missed it..


The Grand Flex was never tested - but I don't think it needs to be








SPCR's review was not positive on it, so I never bothered looking any further into it.

You can see SPCR's conclusions here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1361-page5.html
Quote:


> Despite or because of all its unusual design elements, the Grand Flex was disappointing. Its cooling proficiency was as lackluster as its sound quality. There are plenty of fans that sound terrible and perform well or vice versa, but the Grand Flex falls is closer to the negative side of the spectrum on both accounts.


----------



## MicroCat

Yup. I've used them and are a dis-improvement from the S-Flex series.


----------



## andre02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> I think it's there listed as Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12B5AP-15


I belive that Scythe GT AP-15 and Nidec GT are different because the latter ends in AP-60 and has a different "code" (number). But i will check again..

p.s. Those Delta fans are incredible , they cool about 5 degrees better which is very good, but the sound must be ... i don't know how to call it, 90db vs 45db, a broken vacuum cleaner, a hairdryer and a jetplane combined (exagerrating a bit), i would be curious how they sound , i've never heard one in person, i've only heard/read about them.







(i like Delta btw, the quality is great (i only had one, on a stock Intel CPU cooler))


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> I belive that Scythe GT AP-15 and Nidec GT are different because the latter ends in AP-60 and has a different "code" (number). But i will check again..
> 
> p.s. Those Delta fans are incredible , they cool about 5 degrees better which is very good, but the sound must be ... i don't know how to call it, 90db vs 45db, a broken vacuum cleaner, a hairdryer and a jetplane combined (exagerrating a bit), i would be curious how they sound , i've never heard one in person, i've only heard/read about them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (i like Delta btw, the quality is great (i only had one, on a stock Intel CPU cooler))


Last twor characters in Nidec model number are customer special features.

Character Code
1-2,3-4,5-5,6-7,8-9-10-11-12-13
D 12 . 25 . C . 12. B . 6 . A. P -15
1 = fan design
1 = fan design
2,3 = housing size
4,5 = thickness
5,6 = housing material
7,8 = operating voltage
9 = bearing
10 = operating speed within series
11 = functional or mechanical variation
12 = monitor options
13 = customer specified features


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> I belive that Scythe GT AP-15 and Nidec GT are different because the latter ends in AP-60 and has a different "code" (number). But i will check again..


The -xx in the model is just a number for the buyer. They're Nidec's D1225C fans. Essentially the same fans but different speeds.
D1225C12B*1* (Scythe AP-1*1*, 500rpm)
D1225C12B*2* (Scythe AP-1*2*, 800rpm)
D1225C12B*3* (Scythe AP-1*3*, 1150rpm)
D1225C12B*4* (Scythe AP-1*4*, 1450rpm)
D1225C12B*5* (Scythe AP-1*5*, 1850rpm)
D1225C12B*6* (Dazmode AP-*6*0, 2150rpm)


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andre02*
> 
> I belive that Scythe GT AP-15 and Nidec GT are different because the latter ends in AP-60 and has a different "code" (number). But i will check again..
> 
> p.s. Those Delta fans are incredible , they cool about 5 degrees better which is very good, but the sound must be ... i don't know how to call it, 90db vs 45db, a broken vacuum cleaner, a hairdryer and a jetplane combined (exagerrating a bit), i would be curious how they sound , i've never heard one in person, i've only heard/read about them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (i like Delta btw, the quality is great (i only had one, on a stock Intel CPU cooler))


If it's anything like these older Dell rack servers (2950 and few others) from work it's like a jet engine revving up lol. Not sure what fans they're running in there but they're definitely thicker than 25mm. Maybe 92mmx38mm.


----------



## MrKoala

Small high rev fans used in thin rack servers cases are usually louder than large 12/14cm case fans that move the same amount of air.

It seems that those high power industrial fans like Deltas are not necessarily less efficient (in terms of airflow/noise) than regular fans. They just have more headroom on the high speed side. If you can keep the PWM duty cycle low they work as well as typical high quality case fans, but with better reliability.


----------



## RhinoJC

Gday cyclops. Thanks for putting together all this great info. I ended up getting 8 delta fans for my 480 rads. Got the "she" versions. They go to 3700 rpm. They work really well, but at high speed they are real loud. My fan controller drops the speed and noise down heaps though. Not Controlled by pwm, but voltage. Very high quality fans.


----------



## thaiusmle

Thank you for this guide. I am preparing for my first build with EVGA Hadron. It is very small case including PSU.
It has two 120mm top fans that exhaust the air out of the case. The stock fan is not very good and having loud noise. Intake is through the bottom mesh.

This is not my pic, but plan to build similar to this set up


2 top fans


- What do you guys recommend for replacement of the top fans? I prefer quieter fan with good performance if possible.


----------



## Cyclops

A pair of NF-P12's. Won't matter at the end, the power supply fan will be the loudest thing in the system under load.


----------



## andre02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> If it's anything like these older Dell rack servers (2950 and few others) from work it's like a jet engine revving up lol. Not sure what fans they're running in there but they're definitely thicker than 25mm. Maybe 92mmx38mm.


92X38mm sounds like 2x the nightmare of a 120x25mm ...


----------



## chartiet

I have a TT Core X2 and am trying to figure out a quiet fan setup for air cooling. I'm thinking of doing some 5x 140mm's and 3x 120mm's, all on PWM.

2x 140mm's in front (intake)
2x 140mm's top (intake)
2x or 3x 120mm's side (intake)
1x 140mm back (exhaust)
Question I have is RPM. Whats the lowest (most quiet) I can go without sacrificing air flow and case cooling. Considering Vardar's or suggested similar like Phanteks. Any other suggestions on fan size, quantity, orientation, or model are appreciated.


----------



## Cyclops

RPM shouldn't be a decisive factor. Some fans move the same amount of air at 1500 RPM than some others do at 2000 RPM. My answer always is NF-P12 or NF-P14. 1100 RPM for P12s and 900 RPM for P14s. Look at noise to temp ratio charts.


----------



## Ceadderman

GTs kill Noctuas. But they're difficult to come by consistently.









~Ceadder


----------



## chartiet

Thanks dudes. So rule out the Vardar's in favor of Noctua's or GT's? Any charts at the tip of your fingers that you could share?


----------



## Ceadderman

Nothing wrong with Vardars. If you go to DazMode's YouTube page, he's got a pretty reasonable run down that is interesting to watch. Just remember to keep an open mind. GTS of course rule but he includes Vardars, GTS and Noctua high end fans. The Noctua he tested list at around $33 each. If you can drip $100 on 3 that's not too bad. But more Radiators and Push/Pull can get quite spend in a hurry.

I'm picking up nine used GT AP15s in September for $162. Those Noctua fans would be the deposit for my son's College tuition account in Push/Pull.









Anyway check it out.









~Ceadder


----------



## chartiet

I'll check ou the vid. Id like PWM and the GT's are normally not. Prob looking for best performance (air flow and noise) for the price. Vardar's seem cost conscience. The Noctua's and PWM modded GT's are more costly. I have a bunch AP-15's but not PWM of course and a little too noisy (all things considered) for this particular consideration. That's why I'm considering more in the <1850rpm lot. Im just having trouble finding a good apples to apples comparison of all the options. As always, thanks.


----------



## Ceadderman

Have you checked them to see if they can be model to PWM? Some can and some cannot from what I have learned.

~Ceadder


----------



## chartiet

GT's can but at a cost. Don't really feel like paying or doing myself, just lazy. Additionally, the gt's I have I'd like to keep for my rad setup.


----------



## Ceadderman

Actually both yes and no they can/not.

The reason is simple. On the mod abale GTs, you will see a connection point on the pcb where you can solder your PWM lead.

GTS that cannot be modded do not have this point on the pcb at all.

I suggest modding them if you can and save yourself some money getting PWM replacements. Basically all you're doing is heating the solder with the iron and painting the solder on the connection with the tip. I can do ten solder points in 10 minutes going from one piece to 9 others.

Don't be afeared. The feeling you get when you're successfully finished is better than Cocaine. More addictive too.









I changed myLEDs on my 932 and was like





















afterwards. And that's easily harder than adding a single lead to a 1 point of contact pcb.









~Ceadder


----------



## chartiet

Yes, I was aware of the mod options on the GT's. But Im not interested (definitely not afraid lol







) in modding them. Id like to just get inherent PWM fans. Ill pay extra for that. I also must say that the feeling I would get from modding a fan would not even closely compare to Coke! Id mod a fan on Coke but my hands shake to much









Lets just move on from the GT's and focus on PWM fans that move air quietly for a decent price. Must be quiet but still move enough air to serve well as case fans. Id like positive pressure.

Cyclops mentioned the Noctuas (they are fugly imo), but do the Vardars perform better/same for less money? Are we just splitting hairs? Etc... Thanks dudes.


----------



## IcarusLSC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> So why didn't you start by looking for why you couldn't get images to proper size? Instead you think it's Cyclops' faluts because the images are too small. figure out the problem in the first place instead of asking for bigger image?
> 
> Just like so many out there. Always point the finger everywhere but at themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cyclops has put lots of time thought and money into doing these tests and all he gets is viewers comments. I appreciate what he has done here. It's a great source of fan data.


I did, why bash me for your stupid post AFTER I SAID I HAD IT FIGURED OUT? Go away and troll somewhere else please...


----------



## Ceadderman

Actually the performance of the Car dark doesn't beat the Noctuas that Daz tested. But if you're referring to the brown turd colored Noctuas they are better I believe.

I would simply suggest the ER versions depending on which color you want. PPCs has them for around $17 unless you want the all vlacks which are $2 more since those are higher RPM rated.









~Ceadder


----------



## chartiet

So with the news of the Vardar 140's being recalled, whgats the next most cost effective option? Noctua's? Id like to stay away from the Noctua's if possible. Can sacrifice a little performance or noise for looks. Also, @Ceadderman, you mentioned the F3 ER's, do you think I need all that RPM/air flow? Or, can I go lower noise/RPM/flow?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> So with the news of the Vardar 140's being recalled, whgats the next most cost effective option? Noctua's? Id like to stay away from the Noctua's if possible. Can sacrifice a little performance or noise for looks. Also, @Ceadderman, you mentioned the F3 ER's, do you think I need all that RPM/air flow? Or, can I go lower noise/RPM/flow?


Pleas post a link to this "recall" you are jabbering about.
I can find nothing about this in quick web searches for Vardar, Vardar 140, Vardar fans, EK Vardar, EKWB, etc.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> So with the news of the Vardar 140's being recalled, whgats the next most cost effective option? Noctua's? Id like to stay away from the Noctua's if possible. Can sacrifice a little performance or noise for looks. Also, @Ceadderman, you mentioned the F3 ER's, do you think I need all that RPM/air flow? Or, can I go lower noise/RPM/flow?


First I have heard about that. Not sure if this is true.

If you do get Vardars, the Extended Range models (ER) run down to 25% of RPM range. So if you have the 2000rpm flavor of Vardars, your minimum speed is 500rpm. After that, it's what you feel is necessary. If you can live with the sound of your fans, they give reasonable temps and you're not hearing a tremendous amount of whine coming from the metal mounting surfaces rubbing against the plastic housings, I would seriously consider them a solid option. Especially in the Summer where you might like to have some headroom to speed the heat away from your cooling option of choice.









~Ceadder


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> First I have heard about that. Not sure if this is true.
> 
> ~Ceadder


I'm assuming it's a nasty rumor and nothing more until I see somethng official from EDWB.


----------



## chartiet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Pleas post a link to this "recall" you are jabbering about.
> I can find nothing about this in quick web searches for Vardar, Vardar 140, Vardar fans, EK Vardar, EKWB, etc.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'm assuming it's a nasty rumor and nothing more until I see somethng official from EDWB.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1546649/product-info-and-discussion-vardar-radiator-fans/320#post_24334540

From EK-CEO,
Quote:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I must inform you that following a couple of RMAs we realized the Vardar 140 batch has serious quality issues so we had to stop all sales and will be informing all customers of the following situation:
> 
> Product recall for EK-Vardar 140 (F2, F3, FF4)
> 
> EAN# Name
> 3831109867570 EK-Vardar F2-140
> 3831109867587 EK-Vardar F3-140ER
> 3831109867594 EK-Furious Vardar FF4-140
> 
> Some of those fans produce metallic sound when running at low speeds that can be considered annoying for some buyers. F2-140 and F3-140ER, when they operate at lower RPM, a metal noise can be heard, something similar to two metal parts rubbing against each other, probably a faulty bearing. With FF4-140, a strange noise can be heard (either at low or high RPM) in the motor area, the cause is currently unknown. NOT all Fans were affected but we do not want to sell something that might be faulty, so all sales of these fans are stopped until issue is resolved.
> 
> EK-Vardar F1-140 (3831109867563) IS NOT affected by this issue and is staying available for purchase. thumb.gif
> 
> Existing customers will be given a choice of;
> 1. Complete refund.
> 2. Replacement when the new redesigned batch arrives (1-2 months waiting time, currently unclear).
> 
> We are sorry that after such a long wait we need to recall the products you were looking forward to. Please excuse us for any inconveniences this might have caused you.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'm assuming it's a nasty rumor and nothing more until I see somethng official from EDWB.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1546649/product-info-and-discussion-vardar-radiator-fans/320#post_24334540
Click to expand...

That's just the 140s'. It seems the first batch of the new lineup is faulty. Most likely bad bearings, due to the metallic clicking sound. This is generally due to the ball bearings inside either being the incorrect tollerance or they weren't fully sealed, allowing the grease to seep out or a combination thereof.

The only other explanation would be the axle hasn't aligned properly in the hub and the metallic clicking is coming from a winding. Without hearing it first hand I cannot say for sure but I think it's the bearings. First thoughts are usually the correct thoughts.









120s' are fine afaik.









~Ceadder


----------



## chartiet

Yea, I needed at least 5 140's and they pulled all the 140's except the F1's off the website with a 1-2 month plus ETA for a return... le sigh

Add: So... with the news of the Vardar 140's being recalled, whgats the next most cost effective option? Noctua's? Id like to stay away from the Noctua's if possible. Can sacrifice a little performance or noise for looks. Does one just go with 120mm ilo 140mm since the difference is minimal?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> Yea, I needed at least 5 140's and they pulled all the 140's except the F1's off the website with a 1-2 month plus ETA for a return... le sigh
> 
> Add: So... with the news of the Vardar 140's being recalled, whgats the next most cost effective option? Noctua's? Id like to stay away from the Noctua's if possible. Can sacrifice a little performance or noise for looks. Does one just go with 120mm ilo 140mm since the difference is minimal?


Go with Yate Loon. They're cheap, you can get them in Black or LED flavors and they can be placeholders for the eventuality of 140 Vardars return which will be shortly all things considered.

They can be a bit noisy but if 28 dB-32dB doesn't bother you they would be a quick simple easily replaced alternative. They are mostly sleeved bearings but for the short term usage, they work great.









~Ceadder


----------



## IcarusLSC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> GTs kill Noctuas. But they're difficult to come by consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


I can't find this info in the charts. Can you verify please?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1546649/product-info-and-discussion-vardar-radiator-fans/320#post_24334540
> 
> From EK-CEO,


Sorry for not taking your word to start with, but posting statements like that without reference to source make is very suspect.

Also "From EK-CEO" is not true. It is from *OCN user EK-CEO*. While this user may be the CEO, we have no data that says they are or not.

All we do know is they have OCN official "Hardware Rep" status.

Making statements like you did are how rumors take of a life of their own .. becoming something they are not.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sorry for not taking your word to start with, but posting statements like that without reference to source make is very suspect.
> 
> Also "From EK-CEO" is not true. It is from *OCN user EK-CEO*. While this user may be the CEO, we have no data that says they are or not.
> 
> All we do know is they have OCN official "Hardware Rep" status.
> 
> Making statements like you did are how rumors take of a life of their own .. becoming something they are not.


He did not specifically say "_The_ CEO of EK". No reason to attack him that way. But anyway, the CEO of EKWB is Mark Tanko and if you'd care to look into things and do some research you'd realise that's the actual guy.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> He did not specifically say "_The_ CEO of EK". No reason to attack him that way. But anyway, the CEO of EKWB is Mark Tanko and if you'd care to look into things and do some research you'd realise that's the actual guy.


You are 100% right, also that thread linked by Chartiet has 3 active EKWB reps

Moreover you guys can find the evidence that what EK-CEO is saying is correct if you take a look at EKWB Webshop, where you'll see that the entire 140 lineup (bar the F1s) have been removed from sales


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> He did not specifically say "_The_ CEO of EK". No reason to attack him that way. But anyway, the CEO of EKWB is Mark Tanko and if you'd care to look into things and do some research you'd realise that's the actual guy.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> You are 100% right, also that thread linked by Chartiet has 3 active EKWB reps
> 
> Moreover you guys can find the evidence that what EK-CEO is saying is correct if you take a look at EKWB Webshop, where you'll see that the entire 140 lineup (bar the F1s) have been removed from sales


I was not attacking chartiet. I was simply pointing out it was not clear who posted the text in his quote.

He wrote
"From EK-CEO, "
Then quoted user EK-CEO's post.

That gives anyone reading it the impression it is a direct quote of EK CEO rather than OCN user EK CEO. Most readers interpret it the same way as they would "_The_ CEO of EK". This is the kind of omission of details that can start all kinds of malicious gossip on the internet.

That was all I was trying to point out to chartiet

@marn3us
Number of reps has no relevance to what OCN user EK CEO posts.









Now you are now doing the same thing.
Chartiet did not link to a thread, but to a specific post in a thread. Again this is how rumors become fiction than can and often does damage the reputation of whoever it is about. Every time someone passes it on it is changed slightly until we have "the" EK CEO thread about their fan recall" when it is only a few specific models with only a few sales being made before the problem was caught and is being corrected.

OCN user EK CEO posted
Quote:


> Product recall for EK-Vardar 140 (F2, F3, FF4)
> 
> EAN# Name
> 3831109867570 EK-Vardar F2-140
> 3831109867587 EK-Vardar F3-140ER
> 3831109867594 EK-Furious Vardar FF4-140


and has now also stated
Quote:


> I suggest you try yours out, maybe they will be ok. Run them at 40% speed and listen. if they work normally they will be fine also in the future. If not, you could still use them and get replacement ones once we get them again. They function normally, just not as silent as we would want.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1546649/product-info-and-discussion-vardar-radiator-fans/340_20#post_24337946
and
Quote:


> You can use the recalled fans, we will not ask you to send them back to us.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1546649/product-info-and-discussion-vardar-radiator-fans/340_20#post_24337946
and
Quote:


> We will refund our resellers for total amount of Vardars 140 that they bought from us, so they should be open to find best option for customers. Please contact your local vendor for settlement. We cannot directly influence on this level what they do as there are multiple people and organizations involved. Since we cannot know if you got your replacement locally already we cannot do that directly for you. I hope you understand why is so. Sorry.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1546649/product-info-and-discussion-vardar-radiator-fans/340_20#post_24338205

EK is doing a stellar job of handling this problem.


----------



## chartiet

I'll just make sure I follow the official rules of OCN etiquette next time I mention something.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> I'll just make sure I follow the official rules of OCN etiquette next time I mention something.


You didn't do anything wrong, mate. You just didn't make it clear exactly what was going on. Most people do exactly the same things and after a few more people do the same the original statement becomes something very different.
Every play the game in a circle of people of whispering something to the person next to you, who tells the next person the same thing, all the way around the circle and back to you? If you haven't, try it.. What gets whispered back to you will not be the same thing you said.


----------



## chartiet

I get what you are saying, seriously. I have played that game. I know I didn't do anything wrong.

To be over it would imply at one point I was taken a back, which I never was. Did my sarcasm kill your cat? Your coming off very lectury old guy'y.


----------



## thaiusmle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> A pair of NF-P12's. Won't matter at the end, the power supply fan will be the loudest thing in the system under load.


Thank you for your recommendation. I heard about the loud PSU fan problem before for Hadron Air.
I have a few more questions if you don't mind

- Is it worth getting GT 2150 RPM over NF-P12 for this small case? This case has limited intake unmodded. If I use higher CFM exhaust fan (GT 2150 RPM), will it be helpful?

- Any other good alternatives that does not have Noctua's color (Brown & cream)? I read this thread and looking up other sources. A few choices came up - Noctua NF-S12B redux (Is it good for small case like this?), Cougar vortex (Any problem using it horizontally?), Be quite! Silent Wings 2, GT 2150 RPM (A little louder?)

Thanks again


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chartiet*
> 
> I get what you are saying, seriously. I have played that game. I know I didn't do anything wrong.
> 
> To be over it would imply at one point I was taken a back, which I never was. Did my sarcasm kill your cat? Your coming off very luctury old guy'y.


Sorry about that.








It's just so easy for peeps to get the wrong impression. I've been on the wrong end of this kind of thing so am rather sensitive and possible over-react when I see it possibly happening.


----------



## chartiet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sorry about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just so easy for peeps to get the wrong impression. I've been on the wrong end of this kind of thing so am rather sensitive and possible over-react when I see it possibly happening.


Its all good.


----------



## RnRollie

I've noticed that Blacknoise has finally completed the *140mm eLoop*.... since they could potentially be a gamechanger in the 140mm fans segment, i hope somebody will include them in comparative tests









http://www.blacknoise.com/site/en/products/noiseblocker-it-fans/nb-eloop-series/140x140x29mm.php

PS: when did they complete them? Must be recent, cuz i'm sure they were not listed on their site yet last month.
.


----------



## Cyclops

If only "somebody" would test fans here









They've sent me 6 different RPM versions of their 120mm eLoops but only one of each, which is why I haven't tested them yet. I contacted them to let them know but they never replied to my emails.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> If only "somebody" would test fans here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've sent me 6 different RPM versions of their 120mm eLoops but only one of each, which is why I haven't tested them yet. I contacted them to let them know but they never replied to my emails.


Did you use very stilted speech?








The Germans are sometimes very sensitive to (lack of) formalities.

"Hey guys," does not always go down very well.









(Very) formal & efficient _(no legalese -that doesnt work either)_ and some mild groveling gets you everywhere in Germany


----------



## Cyclops

Heh, yeah, if only.


----------



## ebduncan

I didn't see the XSPC 140mm radiator fans here either.

might want to check those out.


----------



## chartiet

I just ended up going with some F2-120 (1450rpm) Vardars and some NF-P14s Redux (1500rpm) Nocutas. Hopefully all that fan will move air. Still thinking 1x 140mm exhaust and the other 6 (4x 140mm and 2x 120mm) intake. Maybe 3x 140mm exhaust and 2x 140mm, 2x 120 intake.


----------



## danielhowk

Great reviews! thumbs up








Which 120mm is the best for casing. air cooling. Sound and performance








hope you guys can give me a good recommendation.


----------



## johnjohniejonjo

Hi, I just bought a Xigmatek Praeton 965, my temp reduced by 15%-20% from intel stock. Should I change the cpu fan for better cooling?


----------



## Ceadderman

Yate Loon fans are really good for case cooling. I use High Speed Silents for case cooling. Just make sure to get some vibration dampening gaskets or fan studs. In the case of the latter they're cheap and effective for diminishing noise returns. I suggest these fans as they're cheap and effective when needing multiple fans.

As far as that Xigmatec cooler you could put a Noctua fan on it and see a further decrease in Temps and they come with rubber inserts on the corners. Am suggesting this because you intend to replace 1 fan on that cooler.









~Ceadder


----------



## johnjohniejonjo

thanks, but that Yate loon only have dc, im looking for pwm, as my pc case is really cheap and thin.

Im sorry, but noctua product blinded my eyes. their 90mm fan is grey.. they brown-ish design only looks good on their webpage with that redhead lady.

whY NoctuA WhY?


----------



## MrKoala

Phanteks then.

Yate Loon does have PWM models.


----------



## johnjohniejonjo

I just visit the phanteks website. Cant find 90mm or 92mm fan.


----------



## MrKoala

Oops. Didn't realized you need a 90mm on that cooler.

Actually Phanteks does have a 90mm cooler combo but that one looks kinda ridiculous.

Don't see many 9mm fan reviews around. Judging but the look of the blades, many high rev industrial fans from Sanyo/Delta/AVC should have good static pressure even if you lower the speed to more reasonable levels. But noise is hard to tell.


----------



## johnjohniejonjo

that fan looks like g-string. not going to use that. Anyway, I think I saw sanyo denki fan at my local shop. going to see if its pwm. If not, I want to try noctua.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnjohniejonjo*
> 
> that fan looks like g-string. not going to use that. Anyway, I think I saw sanyo denki fan at my local shop. going to see if its pwm. If not, I want to try noctua.


It's hard to tell wether or not a 92mm fan will fit on a cooler designed for 90mm fans. Those 2 extra millimeters may be to much to use the stock fitting mechanism. The stock fan also delivers decent performance for a 90mm fan at the specified noise level (if the tech chart is anywhere near correct). Otherwise the Noctua NF-A-14 is a good fan, and one of the few 15mm thick ones you will find.


----------



## AliveNoMore

Greetings and salutations, fan people.

I skimmed through the thread but could find a definitive answer. I'm looking to add a few (two or three) fans in my case (Carbide 400R). No radiator usage, just as case fans. The fans will operate almost entirely on low (below 1000 for sure) RPM via PWM. I value silence more than performance but I can sacrifice a decibel or two if it would be worth it.

So far I've narrowed down to DeepCool UF120R, Cooler Master JetFlo 120 and Arctic F12 PWM (non-Pro). The first two can be found in my country for virtually the same price (~15 USD) whereas the Arctic one is slightly cheaper (~11 USD).

For my needs would it be worth it to go for the more expensive ones (especially considering I would also need to buy a PWM splitter which would mean a few more bucks) or should I get the F12's?

Any thoughts?


----------



## miklkit

I use AC F12s in my case. They run at 100% all the time and the loudest noise is the air whooshing through the foam filters.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AliveNoMore*
> 
> Greetings and salutations, fan people.
> 
> I skimmed through the thread but could find a definitive answer. I'm looking to add a few (two or three) fans in my case (Carbide 400R). No radiator usage, just as case fans. The fans will operate almost entirely on low (below 1000 for sure) RPM via PWM. I value silence more than performance but I can sacrifice a decibel or two if it would be worth it.
> 
> So far I've narrowed down to DeepCool UF120R, Cooler Master JetFlo 120 and Arctic F12 PWM (non-Pro). The first two can be found in my country for virtually the same price (~15 USD) whereas the Arctic one is slightly cheaper (~11 USD).
> 
> For my needs would it be worth it to go for the more expensive ones (especially considering I would also need to buy a PWM splitter which would mean a few more bucks) or should I get the F12's?
> 
> Any thoughts?


considering those fans I would say the f12, simply because they are generally cheap but good fans (have super thin cables though). As for the pricing point of those, are you sure you can't find them cheaper, I could have sworn I only paid about 5-6 usd for each of mine from aquatuning.


----------



## AliveNoMore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> I use AC F12s in my case. They run at 100% all the time and the loudest noise is the air whooshing through the foam filters.


I already have a couple of F12's and I would not call them whisper quiet at full RPM. I'm not saying they are loud but they are not really quiet either.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> considering those fans I would say the f12, simply because they are generally cheap but good fans (have super thin cables though). As for the pricing point of those, are you sure you can't find them cheaper, I could have sworn I only paid about 5-6 usd for each of mine from aquatuning.


I've already checked various stores where I live. I'm certain I cannot find them cheaper than 10 bucks.

For the record, I live in eastern Europe, I converted my currency for your benefit, as USD will give more people a better idea of the price than my own currency or even Euro.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AliveNoMore*
> 
> I already have a couple of F12's and I would not call them whisper quiet at full RPM. I'm not saying they are loud but they are not really quiet either.
> I've already checked various stores where I live. I'm certain I cannot find them cheaper than 10 bucks.
> 
> For the record, I live in eastern Europe, I converted my currency for your benefit, as USD will give more people a better idea of the price than my own currency or even Euro.


I still find that surprising since they are about 6euros here in Norway (I only ordered from German aquatining because of some wc stuff that is way cheaper to import). It seems prices vary a lot then depending on the country. Anyhow, if you got the cash I can say that the noiseblocker/alphacool/phobya eloops are dead silent fans, but that would be about the quietest fans I know of. Hope you find some good fans at least.


----------



## RnRollie

Delta has 80/85/92 mm fans http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/dcfans_product.asp?pcid=1&ptid=1
just like SanAce has http://products.sanyodenki.com/en/contents/hp0067/list.php?CNo=67&ProCon=1203
and Sunon & NMB & ADDA & PAPST & Nidec & ......


----------



## AliveNoMore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> I still find that surprising since they are about 6euros here in Norway (I only ordered from German aquatining because of some wc stuff that is way cheaper to import). It seems prices vary a lot then depending on the country. Anyhow, if you got the cash I can say that the noiseblocker/alphacool/phobya eloops are dead silent fans, but that would be about the quietest fans I know of. Hope you find some good fans at least.


Alphacool and Phobya cannot be found here, and I'm not going through all the additional costs, time and effort to import.

Out of the more well known and renowned fan brands I can get only Blacknoise (Noiseblocker) and Noctua.
The only Noisblocker that fits my requirements, is available and is sort of within my budget and (~18 USD) is BlackSilentPRO PLPS.
There is Noctua NF-S12B Redux PWM also at ~18 USD and Noctua NF-P12 PWM at ~21 USD.

I realize that the Notcua NF-P12 is good but is it really that much better than the Arctic F12, as it is basically twice the price.


----------



## contay

@Cyclops, as most fans go with standard 25mm thick, it is hard to find good revies of slimmer fans. I am looking intakes for RVZ01 which can mount 3x120mm fans and Slim (15-12mm thick) fanswould help a lot. One slot can use 140mm slim fan with 120mm fan mounting holes. Any recommendations? Some noise is acceptable as case will be 2 meters away from me.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AliveNoMore*
> 
> Alphacool and Phobya cannot be found here, and I'm not going through all the additional costs, time and effort to import.
> 
> Out of the more well known and renowned fan brands I can get only Blacknoise (Noiseblocker) and Noctua.
> The only Noisblocker that fits my requirements, is available and is sort of within my budget and (~18 USD) is BlackSilentPRO PLPS.
> There is Noctua NF-S12B Redux PWM also at ~18 USD and Noctua NF-P12 PWM at ~21 USD.
> 
> I realize that the Notcua NF-P12 is good but is it really that much better than the Arctic F12, as it is basically twice the price.


If you are putting it in front of the HDD cage for example you may need some static pressure fans like the P12, while if you are mounting them in exhaust position and less obstructed fan mounts then any regular air cooling fan will work.

For the record, I have some F12a's laying around that I could test up aginst some F12's I have to see the difference in noise level, but I don't have the experience with the 12b.

If you can get them then I know the Cooler Master Silencio FP12 is relatively good static pressure fans that cost quite a bit less than most others in that category.

Really though, for me at least when youi want real silence I figured out that my PSU was actually the noisy thing in my case and not the cooling fans. So it would be good to find out what components actually make noise before adding more fans that you want to be dead silent.

Something to keep in mind though is that usually 14cm fans are a bit more quiet than their 12cm counterparts since you can run them at lower speeds while moving the same air. Just something to consider at least since the case has mounts for them in the top, bottom side and rear.

Also low RPM fans are tha way to go for silence, especially since you want to run them below 1000rpm anywways. I have had cehap fan sbe very quiet simply beacuse I ran them at such a low RPM that they barely moved any air. So for me anyways, I would go back to the first post and look at the noise/performance graph and use that as a guide to selecting fans. It is hard to recommend anything when I'm not sure what fans are available localy for you and especially considering the pricing is different.

I'll post a few links here that you are by no means obligated to follow, but they should at the very least show you some other fan roundups as well for comparison. What you should look for is basically the fan that performs best compared to the noise level (which I assume you know), and while I can reccomend fans for you all day, I really don't know what is available and the pricing poiint in your respective country. I assume you know how to proceed with looking for fans? look at the best performing one compared to noise level (lowest numbers) and if it's not available or not in budget, then look at number 2 and proceed like that.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/331629-28-cooling-roundup-2012
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5770/103-12cm-case-fans-review
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/120mm-fan-roundup-3.html

Then there is ofcourse this thread, but I hope you have checked out the first page allready before asking.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contay*
> 
> @Cyclops, as most fans go with standard 25mm thick, it is hard to find good revies of slimmer fans. I am looking intakes for RVZ01 which can mount 3x120mm fans and Slim (15-12mm thick) fanswould help a lot. One slot can use 140mm slim fan with 120mm fan mounting holes. Any recommendations? Some noise is acceptable as case will be 2 meters away from me.


The only slim 120mm fan I've tested is the Gelid Slim FN-FW12SLIMB-15. It's 15mms thick and the performance is pretty good.


----------



## AliveNoMore

After spending quite some time reading various reviews and opinions, I decided to delay a couple of other items out of my shopping list, increase the fan budget a little and go with two JetFlo's and two BlackSlentPro's. I'm already using a Noctua product (NT-H1), other manufacturers/brands need some love too.









The JetFlo's will replace my fans on the front of the case since there is a dust filter there and there are a few hard drives so there is some obstruction. The included Corsair front fans will most likely be mounted/moved on the other side of the hard drive "cage" for a push/pull configuration, especially since they have white LED's which I can turn on or off with a button on my case, so when I open it to tinker with my hardware I can have some light inside.

The BlackSilentPro's positions are yet not completely clear, most likely bottom or side intake.

In the next months I might get some more BlackSilentPro's and BlackSilentFan's and have different teams. Team BLP will be side/bottom intake and Team BSF will be rear/top exhaust, or vice versa.
And of course Team JF will be front intake.

I'm weird like that, I like symmetry and order. But since this is OCN, I'm guessing I'm sort of among my own kind.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contay*
> 
> @Cyclops, as most fans go with standard 25mm thick, it is hard to find good revies of slimmer fans. I am looking intakes for RVZ01 which can mount 3x120mm fans and Slim (15-12mm thick) fanswould help a lot. One slot can use 140mm slim fan with 120mm fan mounting holes. Any recommendations? Some noise is acceptable as case will be 2 meters away from me.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> The only slim 120mm fan I've tested is the Gelid Slim FN-FW12SLIMB-15. It's 15mms thick and the performance is pretty good.


In case you can't find the Gelid's @contay, have a look at the Phobya G-Silent 12 Slim Edition. Either Gelid makes the fan for Phobya as well or they use the same OEM. At least Systemastore has it though the price is a little bit steep..
If you want PWM then this one from Akasa might be worth a look. "Enter bearing" is apparently some sort of fluid bearing variant by Everflow, EBR for Enter Bearing Rotation.
http://www.akasa.com.tw/search.php?seed=AK-FN078
http://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/93528/ak-fn078/akasa-120x120x15mm-slimfan-ohut-laitetuuletin-pwm

Then there's of course Scythe's 3pin Slip Stream Slim's but they've sleeve bearings, as well as FN123, FW121 from Silverstone.


----------



## contay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> In case you can't find the Gelid's @contay, have a look at the Phobya G-Silent 12 Slim Edition. Either Gelid makes the fan for Phobya as well or they use the same OEM. At least Systemastore has it though the price is a little bit steep..
> If you want PWM then this one from Akasa might be worth a look. "Enter bearing" is apparently some sort of fluid bearing variant by Everflow, EBR for Enter Bearing Rotation.
> http://www.akasa.com.tw/search.php?seed=AK-FN078
> http://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/93528/ak-fn078/akasa-120x120x15mm-slimfan-ohut-laitetuuletin-pwm
> 
> Then there's of course Scythe's 3pin Slip Stream Slim's but they've sleeve bearings, as well as FN123, FW121 from Silverstone.


Thanks for tips but I am one step (or at least a half) ahead. I checked phobyas as well as Akasas (I have few Akasa fans but not slim ones). I am also wondering Prolimatech Ultra Sleeks which are pwm-fans like akasas. With 4pin y-adapter I could hook them to only case fan header my mobo has and tune them down. What I am worried is how double ball bearing in them goes in horizontal position.

Prolimatech fans are somewhat available here (@lagittaja, Jimms at least) and aren't that expensive. Nowhere cheap, but not as expensive as some. Of course, specs don't tell the whole truth and I have to find some reviews. Those Phobyas (Systemastore) are little cheaper but long shipping time as they are not in stock. Neither are Prolimatechs at Jimms, but they usually get stuff fast. Usually. Akasas seems to be louder but I highly doubt Prolimatechs go with 18dB they say. So, next thing is some deep net research.

What it comes to silverstone fans, they are stock fans in RVZ01 and FTZ01. I still haven't decided which case I take, but either one. They differ mostly on exterior and material so it is mostly an Aesthetich choise.


----------



## johnjohniejonjo

Hi, I own a Jetflo 120, in the website it says it has 36dbA noise. can I use it as comparison to the charts?

Additional Info:
I just change my chassis from Silencio 650 to thermaltake core v1. I tried playing games, among heavy battles during gaming, I can hear the noise from jetflo, only use 1 by the way. sounds like this "wingggggggggggggg".


----------



## ebduncan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnjohniejonjo*
> 
> Hi, I own a Jetflo 120, in the website it says it has 36dbA noise. can I use it as comparison to the charts?
> 
> Additional Info:
> I just change my chassis from Silencio 650 to thermaltake core v1. I tried playing games, among heavy battles during gaming, I can hear the noise from jetflo, only use 1 by the way. sounds like this "wingggggggggggggg".


36 dba isn't very quiet. I would suggest using temperature to control the voltage to the fan, IE if its hot it ramps up, if its cool its spinning slow, any decent fan controller with thermal probe will achieve this.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnjohniejonjo*
> 
> Hi, I own a Jetflo 120, in the website it says it has 36dbA noise. can I use it as comparison to the charts?"


No, not at all. Different tools were used differently to measure sound at different conditions.


----------



## SupahSpankeh

Asking for a friend - "Mr Success" - who's updating his cooling.

Suggested PWM splitter running from CPU fan header to PWM case fans and high RPM CPU fan.

Assume Noctua are still the best PWM noise to air shifted winners?


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnjohniejonjo*
> 
> Hi, I own a Jetflo 120, in the website it says it has 36dbA noise. can I use it as comparison to the charts?
> 
> Additional Info:
> I just change my chassis from Silencio 650 to thermaltake core v1. I tried playing games, among heavy battles during gaming, I can hear the noise from jetflo, only use 1 by the way. sounds like this "wingggggggggggggg".


The Jetflo comes with the silent adapter to reduce fan speed:

19 dBA (1200 RPM with included silent mode adapter)
28 dBA (1600 RPM with included silent mode adapter)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SupahSpankeh*
> 
> Asking for a friend - "Mr Success" - who's updating his cooling.
> 
> Suggested PWM splitter running from CPU fan header to PWM case fans and high RPM CPU fan.
> 
> Assume Noctua are still the best PWM noise to air shifted winners?


Sorry your _ass_umption is wrong.
Noctua are good fans, but there are many fans as good and some better than Noctua.
For example with140mm fans the NF-A15 is same, even slightly lower than Thermalrgight TY-14x series fans at same rpm.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23229617

EK Vardar 140mm fans are better be quiet! Silent Wings are about the same too.
http://thermalbench.com/2015/08/17/noctua-nf-a14-flx-140mm-fan/3/
http://thermalbench.com/2015/08/21/noctua-nf-a14-ippc-3000-pwm-140mm-fan/3/

With 120mm fans there are many as good and better; including EK Vardar, Gentle Typhoon, Swiftech Helix, etc.


----------



## RnRollie

Not to mention that Noiseblocker has finally released the *140mm eLoops* last month









http://www.blacknoise.com/site/en/products/noiseblocker-it-fans/nb-eloop-series/140x140x29mm.php


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SupahSpankeh*
> 
> Asking for a friend - "Mr Success" - who's updating his cooling.
> 
> Suggested PWM splitter running from CPU fan header to PWM case fans and high RPM CPU fan.
> 
> Assume Noctua are still the best PWM noise to air shifted winners?


Of the 140MN fans I've tested (not certain what size you are looking for), I have found two things (though my list is by no means comprehensive), first observation is that for PWM the Months 140MN 1,200RPM Reduce fans are amazing! They drop down to ~250RPM at their lowest speed, and they are SILENT. My second observation, if you can not afford Norris fans, even the 'budget' Reduce fans, then the best for the lowest price are easily the Yate Loon fans, though for me they were not an option as they lack the PWM support I require. Especially now that I am making a temperature based PWM controller that will allow me to control my radiator fans based on the temperature of my GPU, chipset, VRM's and any other components cooled by my loop. I've had issues where my GPU is under heavy load while my CPU is sitting at basically idle while my fans are just sitting there at their lowest speed and my GPU is getting superhot, so I need to control some of my fans independent of the CPU header/temperature.

Anyhow, a little off topic there, basically, Noctua's are great if you can afford them, and Yate Loon fans if you are on a budget and don't care about PWM...


----------



## MrKoala

Yate Loon does make PWM fans.


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrKoala*
> 
> Yate Loon does make PWM fans.


I don't think they make them in 140mm versions though, unless of course in all of my searching I missed them...


----------



## MrKoala

They do. D14** models are 14025.



DC Fan Series 140x140x25

Very hard to buy in western retail markets for some reason, but those do exist. The one posted is 3 bucks from a Chinese vendor, but I don't think they ship internationally.

Being an industrial fan, the minimum speed is probably higher than usual. Ball bearings can make a bit of whining noise as well. So the noise "floor" of those could be higher than Noctuas. They are designed for 24/7 high load performance after all.


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrKoala*
> 
> They do. D14** models are 14025.
> 
> 
> 
> DC Fan Series 140x140x25
> 
> Very hard to buy in western retail markets for some reason, but those do exist. The one posted is 3 bucks from a Chinese vendor, but I don't think they ship internationally.
> 
> Being an industrial fan, the minimum speed is probably higher than usual. Ball bearings can make a bit of whining noise as well. So the noise "floor" of those could be higher than Noctuas. They are designed for 24/7 high load performance after all.


I guess I was more referring to fans that can easily be had, it doesn't surprise me at all that they exist, I would have been surprised if they were actually available in any of the 'common' stores people buy from.

Thank you very much for sharing that though, hopefully they find their way over this way sometime soon, $3 for a PWM fan with ball bearings! I think a lot of other fans would lose a lot of market share if those were available internationally...


----------



## epic1337

i just noticed that my local shop added new fans to their list.

Thermaltake riing 12cm and 14cm at a price a bit too close to corsair's AF and SP fans, though its eye catching since its been mentioned quite a bit here in the forums.
then ID cooling, first time hearing that brand tbh but their price is amazingly cheap, the shop had NO-12015, NO-12025 and NO-14025K on their list.
also Enermax TB Silence UCTB14A and UCTB14 is on their list as well, i saw UCTB12 listed on this thread but not the 14cm, so i wonder if its 14cm version is also good.
on a side note, they dropped Xigmatek XOF-F1257 fan price to $3, literally a steal, they're decent for case fans and i could use them to fill up my cases.

also, are there any notable "new" budget (<$20) fans out there?


----------



## Helmbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i just noticed that my local shop added new fans to their list.
> 
> Thermaltake riing 12cm and 14cm at a price a bit too close to corsair's AF and SP fans, though its eye catching since its been mentioned quite a bit here in the forums.
> then ID cooling, first time hearing that brand tbh but their price is amazingly cheap, the shop had NO-12015, NO-12025 and NO-14025K on their list.
> also Enermax TB Silence UCTB14A and UCTB14 is on their list as well, i saw UCTB12 listed on this thread but not the 14cm, so i wonder if its 14cm version is also good.
> on a side note, they dropped Xigmatek XOF-F1257 fan price to $3, literally a steal, they're decent for case fans and i could use them to fill up my cases.
> 
> also, are there any notable "new" budget (<$20) fans out there?


i own 2x140mm riing fans with white led. and they push alot of air, while beeing whisper quiet. i actually prefer them over noctuas, wich i have used for years.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helmbo*
> 
> i own 2x140mm riing fans with white led. and they push alot of air, while beeing whisper quiet. i actually prefer them over noctuas, wich i have used for years.


interesting, i might take one or two for a sample and see for myself whether its a good "alternative".


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Not to mention that Noiseblocker has finally released the *140mm eLoops* last month
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.blacknoise.com/site/en/products/noiseblocker-it-fans/nb-eloop-series/140x140x29mm.php


Where can one buy this fan?

Amazon sells it but only the 120mm version.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Where can one buy this fan?
> 
> Amazon sells it but only the 120mm version.


Aquatuning has them, but they are far from cheap







http://www.aquatuning.co.uk


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Aquatuning has them, but they are far from cheap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.aquatuning.co.uk


nope.avi

Found them on PPCS though, not the PWM model


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> nope.avi
> 
> Found them on PPCS though, not the PWM model


Ofcourse they do, you just have to look them up. They have the B14-1, B14-2, B14-3 as well as the B14-PS

Generally when it's something along the lines of Noiseblocker, Phobya or Alphacool they seem to be the first to have them.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Ofcourse they do, you just have to look them up. They have the B14-1, B14-2, B14-3 as well as the B14-PS
> 
> Generally when it's something along the lines of Noiseblocker, Phobya or Alphacool they seem to be the first to have them.


I mean price wise, not availability.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> I mean price wise, not availability.


Not much of a price difference really, but I can see why you would order from PPCs if youre in the states. That import stuff from AT is always high, for me though it's cheaper than importing from PPCs


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Not much of a price difference really, but I can see why you would order from PPCs if youre in the states. That import stuff from AT is always high, for me though it's cheaper than importing from PPCs


If they only sell without VAT included to international customers, maybe I'll buy from them.

Taxation without representation lol.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> If they only sell without VAT included to international customers, maybe I'll buy from them.
> 
> Taxation without representation lol.


If you are visiting in the UK you pay VAT (value added tax), but there is a form you can file and they will reimburse the VAT to you.


----------



## rogergamer

any updates?


----------



## HiTechQnA

I don't know if they are a reliable retailer or not but this (http://www.magefirm.com/yate-loon-d14bh-12-gp-14025-server-cooling-fan-pr-8082) site appears to have the 140mm pwm yates. they are however $20.00.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechQnA*
> 
> I don't know if they are a reliable retailer or not but this (http://www.magefirm.com/yate-loon-d14bh-12-gp-14025-server-cooling-fan-pr-8082) site appears to have the 140mm pwm yates. they are however $20.00.


Yeah... for 20USD a fan there are far better options out there









Edit: Also in regards to the seller... Look at the comments for the fan. Lots and lots of copy paste comments with even the same spell errors. To me that looks like a scam on the comments at least


----------



## MrKoala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechQnA*
> 
> ...
> Edit: Also in regards to the seller... Look at the comments for the fan. Lots and lots of copy paste comments with even the same spell errors. To me that looks like a scam on the comments at least


They didn't even try...

Why don't legitimate retail sellers import those things? Too cheap to make a profit?


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrKoala*
> 
> They didn't even try...
> 
> Why don't legitimate retail sellers import those things? Too cheap to make a profit?


Probably not a large enough market. What baffles me though is that I can't even find them on Aliexpress... I mean if they don't sell it in China then where exactly would you find them?

That said, it's not really like we need access to Yate Loon PWM fans. As long as there are good alternatives under 10$ it's all good (considering Yate Loon has always been rather mediocre on performance, but very good on performance to price), only problem is I have no clue which ones to recommend under 10$.


----------



## MrKoala

AliExpress doesn't cover everything. The Yate Loons are all over the place on Taobao.com.

And they are not necessarily the price/performance king. Many industrial fans from Delta/AVC/SanAce etc. are found in the same price range. I'm sure there is some gold among those, but without reviewing each of them we simply don't know.


----------



## Ceadderman

Yates aren't mediocre imho. If I weren't building my system for show, I would gladly substitute Yates for the higher end fans that I am putting in my build and save some funds for something else.

They are louder than Vardars and GTs. But they perform at a comparable level in my experience. DazMode did a comparison with cheap fans (Gelids and rebranded Yates iirc) vs Vardars, GTs and Engineer Noctuas. The cheap fans were comparable in performance but they were definitely louder.









~Ceadder


----------



## MrKoala

If by performance you mean airflow/pressure, the high speed Yate Loon models, which is often used with passive cooling systems, are way more powerful than typical enthusiast PC fans. The problem is how much performance we can have if we tune all of the them to the same noise level with either open (airflow) or heatsink/rad (pressure) mounting.

Performance/noise at the highest setting doesn't tell everything. We need curves with varying PWM duty cycle, but that's a lot more work.

Looking at the blades, my uneducated guess is the D14BH's will do well with case airflow, but are not among the most efficient heatsink/rad fans.


----------



## Rainmaker91

^This. Really if performance is the only thing that matters then you might as well go for son 38mm all aluminum san ace fans. I know for a fact that they have both insane flow and pressure, but the noise is unbearable imo. When talking about regular fans it's far more bout the performance to noise ratio than anything else. Then there is the price as well but that's another matter. Not trying to say the Yates are bad, but there are fans far more suited for personal computers out there. I have no idea which ones would be good as budget fans though as the 140mm marks is less saturated than the 120mm market.


----------



## Chopper1591

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Yates aren't mediocre imho. If I weren't building my system for show, I would gladly substitute Yates for the higher end fans that I am putting in my build and save some funds for something else.
> 
> They are louder than Vardars and GTs. But they perform at a comparable level in my experience. DazMode did a comparison with cheap fans (Gelids and rebranded Yates iirc) vs Vardars, GTs and Engineer Noctuas. The cheap fans were comparable in performance but they were definitely louder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


Agreed.
Yates are very nice, especially considering their price.
Sure there are better ones around, but most are at least twice the price.

These for example, 140mm although not PWM, €8,95:
http://www.highflow.nl/fans/ventilatoren/yate-loon/yate-loon-140mm-d14sl-12-black-1000rpm.html


----------



## MrKoala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> ^This. Really if performance is the only thing that matters then you might as well go for son 38mm all aluminum san ace fans. I know for a fact that they have both insane flow and pressure, but the noise is unbearable imo. When talking about regular fans it's far more bout the performance to noise ratio than anything else. Then there is the price as well but that's another matter. Not trying to say the Yates are bad, *but there are fans far more suited for personal computers out there*. I have no idea which ones would be good as budget fans though as the 140mm marks is less saturated than the 120mm market.


Is there any measurement showing Yate Loons (or Delta, SanAce, etc.) significantly worse than typical PC case fans given the same noise level target? Or do we simply have little data to draw a conclusion from? Yate also has low powered offerings (D14B*L*-12), how about those?


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> ^This. Really if performance is the only thing that matters then you might as well go for son 38mm all aluminum san ace fans. I know for a fact that they have both insane flow and pressure, but the noise is unbearable imo. When talking about regular fans it's far more bout the performance to noise ratio than anything else. Then there is the price as well but that's another matter. Not trying to say the Yates are bad, but there are fans far more suited for personal computers out there. I have no idea which ones would be good as budget fans though as the 140mm marks is less saturated than the 120mm market.


All I know is when my system had three 120x20 12SHs' on it, is that my Temps running max load 24/7 were 40-45c year round. And having them on my Fan controller I could dial them back and not really hear them. That IMHO is not mediocre performance considering I am cooling an 1100T and MB loop. Would be warmer if I was cooling GPU too but the extra 120 space (1:1 variable) at the cooling surface probably wouldn't have been taxed much given the MB doesn't get that hot. Even in 24/7 operation.

If businesses here in the US carried 140s on the same price scale as the Yates 120s(slightly higher for LED versions) I believe more people would be willing to run them on 140 setups. Noise factored in is great an all but it's not much of a tradeoff against performance imho.









I've run the LED versions (SH and MH) on my old h50 as well and had good results with them also. None of mine were PWM however.









~Ceadder


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrKoala*
> 
> Is there any measurement showing Yate Loons (or Delta, SanAce, etc.) significantly worse than typical PC case fans given the same noise level target? Or do we simply have little data to draw a conclusion from? Yate also has low powered offerings (D14B*L*-12), how about those?


I have no real data to be honest, I only know the reviews of Yate Loon 12cm fans really. So I might be talking out of my ass here, that said you do tend to see more usage of a fan if it is good regardless of how difficult it is to get a PWM version. The simple fact is I don't see as many Yate Loon fans any-more, and whether or not that is due to clever marketing by other brands or due to a general opinion I don't know.

Yates are by all means good budget fans though.


----------



## Ceadderman

Indeed they are.









I get mine w/o sleeving for ~$5 from PPCs. Sadly their supplier dropped them for whatever reason so they are even harder to find since eTailers are dropping like flies caught in a freezer.









~Ceadder


----------



## miklkit

SuperBiiz still has them for about the same price as Arctic Cooling F12s which have about the same performance.


----------



## Rylan

I need a fan for cpu cooler Thermalright HR-22. It's cooling oc-ed 2500k (4.5ghz). I would like a balance of good airflow and silence. HR-22 can take 140mm fan with 120mm holes.

What can you recommend?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rylan*
> 
> I need a fan for cpu cooler Thermalright HR-22. It's cooling oc-ed 2500k (4.5ghz). I would like a balance of good airflow and silence. HR-22 can take 140mm fan with 120mm holes.
> 
> What can you recommend?


At present how are you using the HR-22"
Passive (nothing extra)
Semi-passive (duct to back case exhaust fan)

TY-147A is a beautiful black and white fan that will idle at 300 and go up to 1300rpm


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> At present how are you using the HR-22"
> Passive (nothing extra)
> Semi-passive (duct to back case exhaust fan)
> 
> TY-147A is a beautiful black and white fan that will idle at 300 and go up to 1300rpm


You have 1 Kilobyte of reps.


----------



## Rylan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> At present how are you using the HR-22"
> Passive (nothing extra)
> Semi-passive (duct to back case exhaust fan)
> 
> TY-147A is a beautiful black and white fan that will idle at 300 and go up to 1300rpm


At the moment passive. I don't have enough space to fit duct. I'll check that fan.

Btw. when I'm looking at fans online, how much CFM should they have for a HR22 monstrosity?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You have 1 Kilobyte of reps.


Hadn't even noticed.
It's a heavy load, but I'll survive.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rylan*
> 
> At the moment passive. I don't have enough space to fit duct. I'll check that fan.
> 
> Btw. when I'm looking at fans online, how much CFM should they have for a HR22 monstrosity?


Assuming it is keeping your system cool now, not much. A TY-147A would be ideal because of it's very low noise levels and very low idle speed as well.
Here is a review of TY-147A by someone I trust to do it right.
http://thermalbench.com/2015/10/31/thermalright-ty-147a-140mm-fan/
And a TY-140 review by another trusted source TY-140 is same fan in different colors and different PWM / RPM curve.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/120mm_and_140mm_fan_comparison,22.html


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Hadn't even noticed.
> It's a heavy load, but I'll survive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming it is keeping your system cool now, not much. A TY-147A would be ideal because of it's very low noise levels and very low idle speed as well.
> Here is a review of TY-147A by someone I trust to do it right.
> http://thermalbench.com/2015/10/31/thermalright-ty-147a-140mm-fan/
> And a TY-140 review by another trusted source TY-140 is same fan in different colors and different PWM / RPM curve.
> http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/120mm_and_140mm_fan_comparison,22.html


Going to throw my hat in and agree with Doyll here. Depending on availability then I could easily also recommend the Noctua NF-P14r Redux and the Phanteks PH-F140HP II as well. Again it's just to give some other decent alternatives if availability/price becomes an issue with the Thermalright fan.


----------



## Rylan

Thanks Doyll and Rainmaker91

I checked if any of those are available in my country (Croatia). I could only find Noctua NF-P14s which is a square option (no round available), I don't know if that makes any difference, price is about 15eur.

As for TY-147,TY-140 and Phanteks PH-F140HP II; in what EU online shops can I find them (that have EU shipping)? Which shops do you recommend?


----------



## ladcrooks

*Cyclops
You have 1 Kilobyte of reps.*

*doyll
Hadn't even noticed.
It's a heavy load, but I'll survive.







*

Had to









Fans and how they are placed are detrimental to a build with good temps


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rylan*
> 
> Thanks Doyll and Rainmaker91
> 
> I checked if any of those are available in my country (Croatia). I could only find Noctua NF-P14s which is a square option (no round available), I don't know if that makes any difference, price is about 15eur.
> 
> As for TY-147,TY-140 and Phanteks PH-F140HP II; in what EU online shops can I find them (that have EU shipping)? Which shops do you recommend?


The HR-22 fan clips will not fit the 124.5mm mounting hole spacing of square 140mm fans. They are for 105mm spacing used on round 140mm and square 120mm fans.

I don't know what EU online shops ship to Croatia, but here is list of Thermalright dealers in Europe.
http://www.thermalright.de/en/where-to-buy

Please let us know if you find any shipping to Croatia. I have a friend over there.


----------



## Rylan

Okay, I've found one shop in Croatia (Uzishop) who can get me TY-147A but it will take them a week, price is around 18eur. Thing is I might need a fan tomorrow so I checked other 140mm fans in shops.

There is Scythe Glide Stream 140mm, which is round fan. Is it good for my needs?


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rylan*
> 
> Okay, I've found one shop in Croatia (Uzishop) who can get me TY-147A but it will take them a week, price is around 18eur. Thing is I might need a fan tomorrow so I checked other 140mm fans in shops.
> 
> There is Scythe Glide Stream 140mm, which is round fan. Is it good for my needs?


From the looks of it they look like more air flow oriented fans, but they may very well deliver enough pressure for a tower heatsink. Now in regards to pure facts, I can't say I have as much as Doyll to be honest, but I'll try and find some other decent round frame fans for you. If not then there is always a ton of good 120mm fans that will fit your heatsink.

Since you found the Noctua redux with a square frame you mihgt be able to find the discontinued model which is the NF-P14 FLX it is however non PWM though. Then there is the Noctua NF-A15 PWM wich is a good fan by all means it just does not have as high static pressure as the NF-P14 (I actually use the square version of the NFA15, named NF-A 14 on my CPU and they are indeed very good, but you want to keep it under 1000 RPM for noise reasons).

Then there are some other Phanteks fans with the correct mounting space which is decent, but I'm unsure about the availability in Croatia.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rylan*
> 
> Okay, I've found one shop in Croatia (Uzishop) who can get me TY-147A but it will take them a week, price is around 18eur. Thing is I might need a fan tomorrow so I checked other 140mm fans in shops.
> 
> There is Scythe Glide Stream 140mm, which is round fan. Is it good for my needs?


18 euros is quite steep for a TY-147A but it's also better than the round 140mm Glide Stream. Especially quieter. If you can wait I'd buy it but if not, the Glide Stream will work.


----------



## doyll

Like others have said, it will work, but the TY-147A is a better fan for your needs.


----------



## MattyMatt

Hi,

love this thread/project/whatever you want to call it. I find it important.

Are you going to add the CM Silencio fans to the list at any point? People keep telling me they are close to the Noctua on noise/performance, but I don't trust their sources (like Linus).

I'm in Canada too and I'm not really sure what the availability of these fans is.


----------



## Bonjovi

Hello I Have XSPC RX 360 Radiator . its Double Size radiator and I want to take some 120mm fan 3x. For best choes .

Can you help me plz? help me to choes best ones


----------



## SupahSpankeh

Hi.

Looking to pick up some 120mm PWM fans for a pull config on H100i GTX.

Noctua or EK Varder?

Will be going in a Phanteks Ethoo Evolv mITX chassis.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SupahSpankeh*
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Looking to pick up some 120mm PWM fans for a pull config on H100i GTX.
> 
> Noctua or EK Varder?
> 
> Will be going in a Phanteks Ethoo Evolv mITX chassis.


Is that the only ones available to you? just saying that there is a lot of different options that perform about the same.

If it's between those though... I would go for the EKWB Vardar simply due to a more versatile colour palette and far more options in terms of different rpm variants.


----------



## Pente

The statistics on the first posts is extremely deceptive when it comes to noise to temperature rating.

The *top* ranked ones are all fans running at low speed, bottom ones are fans running at 2000+ RPM. You can't really compare a fan that running at 1500 RPM to one running at 800 RPM as obviously sound to cooling performance ratio gets thrown out the window as you ramp up the fan speed. Thous that entire part doesn't really provide any concrete of the actual fan "performance".

Say you were to plug them into a box and use smart fan control that adjusts fanspeed to reach a target temp (which most modern mobos have) then the faster running fans would automatically slowed down, also resulting in lower noise levels.

Refer to SPCR fan review result pages for an example for the layout of what I'd consider as a more fair comparison of fan performance.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pente*
> 
> The statistics on the first posts is extremely deceptive when it comes to noise to temperature rating.
> 
> The *top* ranked ones are all fans running at low speed, bottom ones are fans running at 2000+ RPM. You can't really compare a fan that running at 1500 RPM to one running at 800 RPM as obviously sound to cooling performance ratio gets thrown out the window as you ramp up the fan speed. Thous that entire part doesn't really provide any concrete of the actual fan "performance".
> 
> Say you were to plug them into a box and use smart fan control that adjusts fanspeed to reach a target temp (which most modern mobos have) then the faster running fans would automatically slowed down, also resulting in lower noise levels.
> 
> Refer to SPCR fan review result pages for an example for the layout of what I'd consider as a more fair comparison of fan performance.


Indeed.
Accurate airflow to noise data & graph are much better. I really don't care if fan is running 600rpm or 1000rpm. What I care about is how much air it is flowing (at what resistance levels aka PQ data) and how much noise it is making at these airflow rates.


----------



## marn3us

Hello, after many years I am going back to Aircooling and i need your help on the optimal number and position of the fans.

My rig is in sig, but essentially the case is an Enthoo Pro, the cpu cooler is a Dark rock Pro 3 and the 980 has axial fans.

I have a large amount of Noctua NF-A14 IPPC 2000 fans and i was thinking of putting 2x as front intake and 1x as rear exhaust.

Do you think i will be good with that setup? Or maybe you can suggest adding more fans (i.e. top exhaust and bottom intake)?

Thanks in advance


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Hello, after many years I am going back to Aircooling and i need your help on the optimal number and position of the fans.
> 
> My rig is in sig, but essentially the case is an Enthoo Pro, the cpu cooler is a Dark rock Pro 3 and the 980 has axial fans.
> 
> I have a large amount of Noctua NF-A14 IPPC 2000 fans and i was thinking of putting 2x as front intake and 1x as rear exhaust.
> 
> Do you think i will be good with that setup? Or maybe you can suggest adding more fans (i.e. top exhaust and bottom intake)?
> 
> Thanks in advance


2x 140 front and 1x 140 bottom. The PH-F140SP fans work well with the PWM controlled fan hub in Enthoo Pro. Raise case up on some blocks to improve airflow to bottom vents. and remove unused PCIe back slot covers to improve front to back flow so GPU's heated exhaust does not move up into DRP3 airflow. and you should be golden.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 2x 140 front and 1x 140 bottom. The PH-F140SP fans work well with the PWM controlled fan hub in Enthoo Pro. Raise case up on some blocks to improve airflow to bottom vents. and remove unused PCIe back slot covers to improve front to back flow so GPU's heated exhaust does not move up into DRP3 airflow. and you should be golden.


Great, thanks!

So 3 intake and 1 rear exhaust correct?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Great, thanks!
> 
> So 3 intake and 1 rear exhaust correct?


Rear exhaust is optional. Might help but probably not. You might find "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topics of interest to see them. Case airflow is very complicated and almost always improves with experimentation and testing to get the best. Kinda like fine tuning a race engine. No two have identical performance even when built to identical standards.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Rear exhaust is optional. Might help but probably not. You might find "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topics of interest to see them. Case airflow is very complicated and almost always improves with experimentation and testing to get the best. Kinda like fine tuning a race engine. No two have identical performance even when built to identical standards.


Clear, i was on mobile and couldn't see sig.

Anyways i think i will keep the rear exhaust to make sure the heated air from the DRP3 does not recirculate in the case and to help move heat away from the VRMs (on X99 they get fairly hot).

Other question: are you sure about the bottom intake? Doesn't it create turbulence? Also please note that i have removed all drive cages in my Enthoo Pro so space behind front fans is clear


----------



## doyll

With 2x front and 1x bottom flowing air into case it has to be flowing out. If it didn't flow out none could flow in. The advantage of pressure rated fans is they do not need to be stacked front and back to move air. Good fans just pull the air in through themselves in front and bottom and push it right on through the case.


----------



## Zeniap

I just ordered a new case for Christmas for myself, I'm trying to find the best bang for my buck for fans that are quiet but have good output. The case is a Thermaltake core x9. Just looking for any type of suggestions for great fans that are silent.


----------



## Pente

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Hello, after many years I am going back to Aircooling and i need your help on the optimal number and position of the fans.
> 
> My rig is in sig, but essentially the case is an Enthoo Pro, the cpu cooler is a Dark rock Pro 3 and the 980 has axial fans.
> 
> I have a large amount of Noctua NF-A14 IPPC 2000 fans and i was thinking of putting 2x as front intake and 1x as rear exhaust.
> 
> Do you think i will be good with that setup? Or maybe you can suggest adding more fans (i.e. top exhaust and bottom intake)?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Doesn't the Enthoo pro already come with fans? Phanteks fans were pretty okay as far as I remember. Keep the 200mm front and 140mm back, add another 140mm intake on bottom and you should be good.

Only important part is to keep more intake airflow compared to exhaust. Doing so results in excess air leaving through whatever extra holes/gaps that the chassis has and ensures that incoming air passes through the filters for better dust management.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> With 2x front and 1x bottom flowing air into case it has to be flowing out. If it didn't flow out none could flow in. The advantage of pressure rated fans is they do not need to be stacked front and back to move air. Good fans just pull the air in through themselves in front and bottom and push it right on through the case.


that's true









i just thought that a bottom fan right below the front intakes would have been harmful in a way that it creates turbulence, but if you say it is better to have it i will place it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pente*
> 
> Doesn't the Enthoo pro already come with fans? Phanteks fans were pretty okay as far as I remember. Keep the 200mm front and 140mm back, add another 140mm intake on bottom and you should be good.
> 
> Only important part is to keep more intake airflow compared to exhaust. Doing so results in excess air leaving through whatever extra holes/gaps that the chassis has and ensures that incoming air passes through the filters for better dust management.


enthoo pro comes with a 200 and a 140mm, but i am not a fan (pun intended) of 200mm since they usually have horrible static pressure and barely move any air... i know the phanteks 200mm has decent sp rating for being so big, but 2x NF-A14s have way better


----------



## doyll

Your A14 IPPC are good too. 2x front and 1x bottom intakes. Raise case for easier airflow to bottom intake and PSU intake
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> that's true


The bottom versus front does not perform as well as 2 fans on same plain, but better than a single fan. Keep in mind these fans are not running at high speed .. and I assume you will have their speed controlled like CPU and/or GPU fans are.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Your A14 IPPC are good too. 2x front and 1x bottom intakes. Raise case for easier airflow to bottom intake and PSU intake
> The bottom versus front does not perform as well as 2 fans on same plain, but better than a single fan. Keep in mind these fans are not running at high speed .. and I assume you will have their speed controlled like CPU and/or GPU fans are.


I'm controlling all my fans in pwm mode via ASUS AI Suite 3 related to cpu temps just like the DRP3 will be once it is shipped... I might also bind the bottom fan's curve to gpu temps instead, i'll do some tests about that

Also note that i have no restriction behind the 2x front intakes (m.2 boot ssd on mobo and sata ssd on rear panel -> removed all hdd cages) BUT i will be using the psu cover (it is just for looks but it's too sexy to pass on







). So my question is: is the bottom 140 fan still suggested? I mean, since i have the psu cover i would place it in the first slot near the front fans and i fear it would compromise the front-to-back airflow created by the front intakes

Sorry for my noobness but when you have everything watercooled you don't care much about airflow


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I'm controlling all my fans in pwm mode via ASUS AI Suite 3 related to cpu temps just like the DRP3 will be once it is shipped... I might also bind the bottom fan's curve to gpu temps instead, i'll do some tests about that
> 
> Also note that i have no restriction behind the 2x front intakes (m.2 boot ssd on mobo and sata ssd on rear panel -> removed all hdd cages) BUT i will be using the psu cover (it is just for looks but it's too sexy to pass on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). So my question is: is the bottom 140 fan still suggested? I mean, since i have the psu cover i would place it in the first slot near the front fans and i fear it would compromise the front-to-back airflow created by the front intakes
> 
> Sorry for my noobness but when you have everything watercooled you don't care much about airflow


Try it both ways. DPR3 is using 1x intake's airflow. GPU is another, so 3rd intake helps make extra up any difference in flow as well as make help by flowing a little extra air around GPU and CPU to keep their heated exhaust from coming back and mixing with the cool air supply. At least that's the theory. But because airflow is affected by anything and everything around and in it, it is often quite hard (impossible) to predict all the possible cause/effect involved.


----------



## Bonjovi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bonjovi*
> 
> Hello I Have XSPC RX 360 Radiator . its Double Size radiator and I want to take some 120mm fan 3x. For best choes .
> 
> Can you help me plz? help me to choes best ones


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Try it both ways. DPR3 is using 1x intake's airflow. GPU is another, so 3rd intake helps make extra up any difference in flow as well as make help by flowing a little extra air around GPU and CPU to keep their heated exhaust from coming back and mixing with the cool air supply. At least that's the theory. But because airflow is affected by anything and everything around and in it, it is often quite hard (impossible) to predict all the possible cause/effect involved.


Ok thanks again, I will place the bottom intake as well and let you know how it goes








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bonjovi*


Absolute best are the EK Vardar (i suggest the F4-120ER) and the scythe Gentle Typhoon (if you can find them). Otherwise people usually recommend Noctua NF-F12 (verh high quality but bad noise profile imo), the Corsair SP120 High Performance (i really like them and they're not expensive), the noiseblocker eloops (better than noctua and corsair) or the BeQuiet! Silent wings 2.


----------



## SupahSpankeh

Hey.

I now have an Enthoo Evolve miTX (which I'm very happy with - great case design).

Have a H100i GTX w/ 2 EK Varder 1850rpm up top (set as exhaust; I'd rather it was intake but the top mount isn't great for airflow as it is and adding a dust fiter would choke it to death), and the stock 200mm fan intake on the front. They're cooling a 6600k, and there's an R9 290X lurking in there as well.

I'm concerned that the 200mm fan intake on the front is too low RPM to avoid bringing in air from the rear; so I'm contemplating replacing it with 2x140mm front intakes. What I'll probbaly do is get PWM front intakes and slave them to the PWM on the EKVs; that way it should balance speed for when it's really required. I've got a PWM splitter... and a spare Phanteks PH-F140XP PWM 140mm Fan lying around.

So - should I grab another PH-F140XP or are they trash? If they're trash, what 140mm front intakes should I get, bearing in mind that the front intake has a mesh _and_ a solid panel to work around, so static pressure is going to be a concern.

Or... is there a super awesome 200mm PWM fan I don't know about?

EDIT: Forgot to mention - this is a living room PC so ideally I'm after 140mm fans with a great static pressure to noise ratio. Or a 200mm fan which fits that bill


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SupahSpankeh*
> 
> Hey.
> 
> I now have an Enthoo Evolve miTX (which I'm very happy with - great case design).
> 
> Have a H100i GTX w/ 2 EK Varder 1850rpm up top (set as exhaust; I'd rather it was intake but the top mount isn't great for airflow as it is and adding a dust fiter would choke it to death), and the stock 200mm fan intake on the front. They're cooling a 6600k, and there's an R9 290X lurking in there as well.
> 
> I'm concerned that the 200mm fan intake on the front is too low RPM to avoid bringing in air from the rear; so I'm contemplating replacing it with 2x140mm front intakes. What I'll probbaly do is get PWM front intakes and slave them to the PWM on the EKVs; that way it should balance speed for when it's really required. I've got a PWM splitter... and a spare Phanteks PH-F140XP PWM 140mm Fan lying around.
> 
> So - should I grab another PH-F140XP or are they trash? If they're trash, what 140mm front intakes should I get, bearing in mind that the front intake has a mesh _and_ a solid panel to work around, so static pressure is going to be a concern.
> 
> Or... is there a super awesome 200mm PWM fan I don't know about?
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to mention - this is a living room PC so ideally I'm after 140mm fans with a great static pressure to noise ratio. Or a 200mm fan which fits that bill


SPCR actually had great things to say about the non-PWM versions of the Phantek 140s - I'd go right ahead and use them.
(I would hope they have similar noise characteristics).

I'm trying something in my R5 right now...but it's probably not common place (200mm + 140mm intake).
I feel a plenty of airflow from the PH-200SP, 5-volted, so it seems fine if you don't have any cages in front of it. I relocated a single-HDD cage to the top (behind the 5.25 bays) - so I have a direct front-to-back path for the 200mm.

BitTech's Enthoo Pro review was what piqued my interest for the 200mm fan in the first place - noting the drop in GPU delta load temps.


----------



## doyll

Phanteks case owners almost universally have found the PH-F200SP to be unimpressive .. Replacing it with 2x PH-F140SP fans gives more airflow and lower noise.


----------



## superstition222

Now all we need is hard data to back that up, especially when it comes to higher-pitch frequencies since overall decibels can be secondary if there is a lot lower-pitch emission (which tends to be less bothersome).


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Now all we need is hard data to back that up, especially when it comes to higher-pitch frequencies since overall decibels can be secondary if there is a lot lower-pitch emission (which tends to be less bothersome).


Back what up?


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Phanteks case owners almost universally have found the PH-F200SP to be unimpressive .. Replacing it with 2x PH-F140SP fans gives more airflow and lower noise.


Hmm well right now the 200mm basically replaces one of the 140mm intakes, so instead 140+140, I have 200+140.
Let me know what you think - just drew this up quickly in AutoCAD haha.


----------



## SupahSpankeh

I think I've decided to sell the Enthoo and get an Air 240.

Thanks for the advice though chaps.


----------



## SupahSpankeh

On the topic of the air 240, gonna put two 2200rpk EKV PWM on the H100i, then try and mount that in the roof, with 2x1650rpm ekv in the front as intakes. So 4x120mm in, none out.

Failing that, gonna put it in the front with 2x120mm intake at the top. Going for huge positive pressure.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Back what up?


That notion that 200mm fans are worthless on large radiators, like the Phobya 1260 (with the correct bracket)

The notion that radiators designed for a single 200mm fan are inadvisable, even in vertical orientation.

The notion that 200mm fans produce the same type of noise emission (frequencies) as smaller fans (I'd like to see the spectral data, with peaks and such - with and without restrictions)

The notion that 200mm fans designed for airflow are inferior to smaller fans for that purpose

The notion that there is not a single 200mm fan (or around that size) that has a good price-performance ratio

(obviously in vertical orientation)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> That notion that 200mm fans are worthless on large radiators, like the Phobya 1260 (with the correct bracket)
> 
> The notion that radiators designed for a single 200mm fan are inadvisable, even in vertical orientation.
> 
> The notion that 200mm fans produce the same type of noise emission (frequencies) as smaller fans (I'd like to see the spectral data, with peaks and such - with and without restrictions)
> 
> The notion that 200mm fans designed for airflow are inferior to smaller fans for that purpose
> 
> The notion that there is not a single 200mm fan (or around that size) that has a good price-performance ratio
> 
> (obviously in vertical orientation)


Why would I even consider responding to those "notions"? They are not at all what I am talking about.
How about you backing up your "notion" that I ever said
"200mm fans are worthless on large radiators, like the Phobya 1260 (with the correct bracket)"
"radiators designed for a single 200mm fan are inadvisable, even in vertical orientation"
"200mm fans produce the same type of noise emission"
"200mm fans designed for airflow are inferior to smaller fans for that purpose"
"there is not a single 200mm fan (or around that size) that has a good price-performance ratio"


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451*
> 
> Hmm well right now the 200mm basically replaces one of the 140mm intakes, so instead 140+140, I have 200+140.
> Let me know what you think - just drew this up quickly in AutoCAD haha.


I'm not sure what to say.
Define R5 venting is designed for 140mm fans. Trying to use a 200mm fan in a 140mm opening is not logical. The fan blade tips are spinning in areas that have no airflow. This usually causes more noise. The 200mm fan has a motor hub much bigger than a 140mm fan and it blocks much more of the airflow area in the 140mm vent.

Your HDD cage is blocking what little air the 80mm fan would move. Do you need that much HDD cage for your drives? If so, turn it so air can flow straight through instead of through is framework.

Is your PSU too big to allow a 140mm bottom fan? 140mm fans move about 50% more air than 120mm fans of same design.

Is case raised to improve airflow to bottom vents?


----------



## mav451

1) Hmm - I'm actually not sure if the cage can be rotated at the top - it's a good idea.
Yeah I currently have 3 HDDs (big reason I didn't get the Fractal S - vertical mounting had vibration per SPCR), so yes I need the cage is some form/capacity.

2) Sadly, yeah the 750G2 is about 1/4" too long to mount the Noctua A14 for my bottom intake.
I recall that you already posted in my SFF21E thread too haha. The reason I started that thread is b/c my 140mm fan wouldn't fit lol.

2b) The 550/650W are shorter by 15mm (0.6").

Or...I drill new holes for fan mounting?

3) Yes, case is raised on hockey pucks.


----------



## Cyclops

I Own both Define S and R5 cases. I use Define S for my FreeNAS, and the R5 for my main rig. Managed to fit dual 360 radiators in the R5 with one (Front) on push/pull and the other one (Top) on pull.


----------



## doyll

I thought it was you, but wasn't sure.









I would enlarge the bottom vent and drill new mounting holes.

Check cooler intake air temp to see how much warmer than room they are. If more than a few degrees we can modify fan placement / speed and maybe do a divider between CPU & GPU to be sure CPU is getting cool air.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #70 -Delta AUB1212H-CK15:





Delta and their naming scheme, eh? Decent performance but a tad high on the noisy side. PWM, industrial, with mustard and ketchup wires.


----------



## doyll

@Cyclops Good to see you are still at it! Thanks for the testing.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #71 - Delta PFR1212DHE-SP00:





So this thing is the loudest piece of kit I've ever tested. The motherboards RPM sensor went haywire and wouldn't register past 7200 RPM (Spec sheet says 7400 RPM is the ceiling), and I had to put ear plugs on because 95 dB a feat from my face wasn't tolerable.

So the cooling is there and the noise is here and the performance is good? You're not gonna use it in any consumer oriented environment anyway so why does it matter.

Right before I turned the system off after the tests were finished, my t-shirt got sucked into the fan and broke the blades. The noise and vibration generated from the unbalanced fan was so severe that I thought the system was going to be ripped apart. Luckily, I switched it off almost immediately, saving the test rig and my organs.

Possible application for this product....

Hoverboards, maybe?

PS: I forgot to mention the power consumption. 50 Watts for a single fan. Crazy, I know. Don't power this thing with a motherboard fan header. You'll damage something. I used a Molex to 3-pin converter and the wires got quite warm.


----------



## MicroCat

OMG! That's a hilarious review, Cyclops!
















That 3 degree improvement over the Delta AUB1212H-CK15 costs an extra 39 dB, is that right? Not hearing the value. And I'm not ready for 95+ dB hoverboard either.


----------



## doyll

We really have no idea how the Delta PFR1212DHE-SP00 can cool because the test system is really not designed to use that kind of "radical" fan.








Cyclops shows this by loosing not only the fan , but his shirt as well.









Sounds (pun) like one of those beasts could cool an entire system. .. but i wouldn't want to live withing a 10 block radius of one.


----------



## Cyclops

I forgot to mention the power consumption. Wait for it.... 50 Watts. That is just ludicrous. You do NOT want to power this fan with a motherboard fan header. I always use a molex to 3-pin on the test rig. The wires actually got warm.

My heart sank when the fan broke though. I think it cost like 50 bucks. I got it as a review sample, but it's cool tech non-the-less.


----------



## MrKoala

This might have been brought up before, but can you do a temperature/noise curve with the remaining Delta? Under full load it's crazy for sure. But if you keep the duty cycle low, will it get significantly worse efficiency than regular PC fans or will it get close?


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I forgot to mention the power consumption. Wait for it.... 50 Watts. That is just ludicrous. You do NOT want to power this fan with a motherboard fan header. I always use a molex to 3-pin on the test rig. The wires actually got warm.
> 
> My heart sank when the fan broke though. I think it cost like 50 bucks. I got it as a review sample, but it's cool tech non-the-less.


if they had used an aluminum fan blade and chassis, it would've functioned as a very poor shredder.
i've seen chassis fans with alloy bodies and impellers, they use it for heavy industrial ventilation, quite powerful too.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I forgot to mention the power consumption. Wait for it.... 50 Watts. That is just ludicrous. You do NOT want to power this fan with a motherboard fan header. I always use a molex to 3-pin on the test rig. The wires actually got warm.
> 
> My heart sank when the fan broke though. I think it cost like 50 bucks. I got it as a review sample, but it's cool tech non-the-less.


If it's waterproof, use it for a trolling motor .. at lower voltage of course.


----------



## SanderH

I really can't decide between the following 140mm fans:


EK Vardar F3-140ER
Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC-3000 PWM,
Noiseblocker eLoop B14-PS PWM
Thermalright TY-147A (ridiculous shape)

Currently I'm thinking about using the Noiseblockers as an "airflow" fan (3x intake and 1x exhaust), and a pair of Vardar F3's or either a pair of Noctua's IPPC's for my AIO rad cause of their ridiculous performance.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Any future plans to include the Cooler Master Silencio fans? I haven't seen much about them but it looks like CM is implementing them for almost all their AIO coolers also...


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Any future plans to include the Cooler Master Silencio fans? I haven't seen much about them but it looks like CM is implementing them for almost all their AIO coolers also...


Maybe. I don't have any yet so, not right away.

In the near future, I'll be adding a few more data points to the test suit such as minimum starting voltage and RPM.


----------



## mav451

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Maybe. I don't have any yet so, not right away.
> 
> In the near future, I'll be adding a few more data points to the test suit such as minimum starting voltage and RPM.


I saw DaveLT's review _and_ CoolingTechnique's numbers. Dave's review in particular highlighted, there is not much drop-off in pressure when the RPM is slowed; again big benefit to SPCR-minded users. CoolingTechnique's numbers (tested open air though), reflect this. But with the combination of both lab and radiator testing, I am particularly interested in the Silencio









The second component is that of the fans to challenge the GT, I believe the Silencio is the only one with FDB (instead of the BB present in both GT and Vardars).


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451*
> 
> I saw DaveLT's review _and_ CoolingTechnique's numbers. Dave's review in particular highlighted, there is not much drop-off in pressure when the RPM is slowed; again big benefit to SPCR-minded users. CoolingTechnique's numbers *(tested open air* though), reflect this. But with the combination of both lab and radiator testing, I am particularly interested in the Silencio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second component is that of the fans to challenge the GT, I believe the Silencio is the only one with FDB (instead of the BB present in both GT and Vardars).


I'd recommend actually reading their test methodology and not just look at the single picture they attach to each of the review which just shows the spl measurement.
http://coolingtechnique.com/guide/metodologie-di-test/399-galleria-del-vento.html
Use Google Translate or whatever you prefer. First page sound stuff, second page CFM/RPM/amperage/pressure.


----------



## mav451

Well I was being conservative with my enthusiasm haha.
Yeah I read most of their reviews with Google Translate.

CoolingTechnique also has Fractal review numbers (HP-12/HP-14) that Thermalbench still doesn't have









It wasn't a knock on them on CoolingTechnique - their tests go WAY back - as they even have Scythe S-FlexEs tested.
So yeah, probably one of my favorite sites to check now for sure.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451*
> 
> I saw DaveLT's review _and_ CoolingTechnique's numbers. Dave's review in particular highlighted, there is not much drop-off in pressure when the RPM is slowed; again big benefit to SPCR-minded users. CoolingTechnique's numbers (tested open air though), reflect this. But with the combination of both lab and radiator testing, I am particularly interested in the Silencio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second component is that of the fans to challenge the GT, I believe the Silencio is the only one with FDB (instead of the BB present in both GT and Vardars).


Not sure how you come to that statement. Physics of it all is as fan speed drops so does pressure rating .. quite dramatically.
NF-A14 iPPC at 1462rpm has 2.032mm H2O
NF-A14 iPPC at 2484rpm has 5.715mm H2O
Less than have the pressure.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23348844

As stated. Look at data on CoolingTechique. They are not open air testing. They are doing a rather complete test at different voltages showing both free airflow and pressure data. Only thing lacking is a P-Q curve and testing PWM fans using PWM instead of variable voltage. .

That said, I have never been able to find any documentation of what their test system is .. and as a good fan test system is quite big and very expensive I have to wonder what they are using in light of not supplying any data showing what the test system is.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Not sure how you come to that statement. Physics of it all is as fan speed drops so does pressure rating .. quite dramatically.
> NF-A14 iPPC at 1462rpm has 2.032mm H2O
> NF-A14 iPPC at 2484rpm has 5.715mm H2O
> Less than have the pressure.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23348844
> 
> As stated. Look at data on CoolingTechique. They are not open air testing. They are doing a rather complete test at different voltages showing both free airflow and pressure data. *Only thing lacking is a P-Q curve* and testing PWM fans using PWM instead of variable voltage. .
> 
> That said, I have never been able to find any documentation of what their test system is .. and as a good fan test system is quite big and very expensive I have to wonder what they are using in light of not supplying any data showing what the test system is.


What's this then










Yeah, it's a shame they don't do PWM fans with actual PWM testing.

If that test methodology page doesn't answer the questions you have, maybe you should ask them


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> What's this then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's a shame they don't do PWM fans with actual PWM testing.
> 
> If that test methodology page doesn't answer the questions you have, maybe you should ask them


My bad. missed that.








That P-Q graph show why it is so important. Cooler Master fall flat on their fan above 0.4mm H20 not even delivering 20-23cfm .. even though the FP120 PWM has a 1.2mm H2O rating.

By comparison SST FN123 has a lower static pressure rating andis till moving 20cfm at 1.06mm H2O
NoiseBlocker eLoop as well as Scythe Glide Stream and Grand Flex are also not able to overcome much resistance.(pressure). Don't know how their airflow to noise checks out, which is just as important if not more.

Not speaking Italian I have found CT site very hard to navigate. I've tried to get in contact and failed.
What test methology page?

Edit: Be careful! I've got a sonic screwdriver destroyer.


----------



## Cyclops

Best methodology for fan testing is presented buy JayZ. Put a strip of paper in front of a fan and see how far back it can push it.


----------



## mav451

Doyll - my statement is on the CM Silencio, not the A14. Like I said, CTs charts showed to me that 140mm fans lose pressure as RPMs drop, much faster than 120s. The second part of that qualification: Silencios in particular (per noise level and pressure), maintained pressure better than other competing 120mm fans, except say the GT. Again I require a VERY strong emphasis on noise levels, which as good as martin was, did not have the focus I wanted. Even still, once I saw what noise was detected on CT's equipment, I had a good idea of what was acceptable to me.

To me, 7v SFF21E are perfect. Per CT's numbers, these are 7.2 dba.
Contrast this with my A15 PWMs at 600RPM (11.7dba) or the crappier early gen Noctuas (P12/P14) haha.

So often what I did was set one variable, and then see what it corresponded to. E.g. what RPM is required for a certain pressure? Or what noise level corresponded to what pressure? In the end, my standardization came down to only one thing: Noise. CT has a ton of information with their tables, so you could do this analysis all day, comparing pressure by noise levels. Note - this isn't quite radiator performance per noise levels, but at least the noise element is accounted for as a true variable here.

So I put together a couple tables for 11.7dba (basically what pressure I get from competing fans at the same noise levels I have now), and then an 8.8dba table. I didn't really finish that 8.8dba fan table as my current S-Flex already beats the Silencio at this noise level...in which case there's no further point to look into it







The 11.7dba table highlights the pressure of a few fans at this noise level: Silencio (0.635) and GT (.82) were the real standouts here. The Fractal HP-12 (given interpolation) was also a factor here (0.811). Contrast this to other 140mm (A15 = 0.381, F140 = 0.381), and it became clear I should probably stick to 120mms.

Again my main point - very few sites put that low-noise focus that I want; but at least with CTs database, I can easily compare it to each other.

PS: SPCR already reviewed the GrandFlex fans long ago...not good results.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1361-page5.html

Like I said the combination of great pressure, at low noise levels, and FDB? The FDB is what got me interested in the Silencio - and I've never used a Coolermaster fan lol. I've only had one CM fan - and its the crappy one that came included with the 212+. It's somewhere in the storage room haha.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> My bad. missed that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That P-Q graph show why it is so important. Cooler Master fall flat on their fan above 0.4mm H20 not even delivering 20-23cfm .. even though the FP120 PWM has a 1.2mm H2O rating.
> 
> By comparison SST FN123 has a lower static pressure rating andis till moving 20cfm at 1.06mm H2O
> NoiseBlocker eLoop as well as Scythe Glide Stream and Grand Flex are also not able to overcome much resistance.(pressure). Don't know how their airflow to noise checks out, which is just as important if not more.
> 
> *Not speaking Italian I have found CT site very hard to navigate. I've tried to get in contact and failed.
> What test methology page?*
> 
> Edit: Be careful! I've got a sonic screwdriver destroyer.


Well there's the contact page. International > Damiano Villa founder of CT. Link to Google+ page or press _modulo contatti_ to send him an email through the website. If you're on Facebook they've a page there, I've contacted them through there once.
http://coolingtechnique.com/contact.html

The one I linked to couple of posts back.
Here's it again for your convenience








http://coolingtechnique.com/guide/metodologie-di-test/399-galleria-del-vento.html


----------



## edsai

Well, I just installed that CM Silencio FP 120 PWM for my Hyper 212+.

I'm really impressed with it, it's spinning at full blast (~1600 rpm) and I can't really hear the noise.
I tested it without any other case fans and with my Gigabyte GTX 960 G1 Gaming wich can works fanless at low loads.

I've tried many other fans like the CM Blade Master, CM XtraFlo, Akasa Viper, Cougar Vortex.
By far the Silencio is the quietest fan that I've owned.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Best methodology for fan testing is presented buy JayZ. Put a strip of paper in front of a fan and see how far back it can push it.










Set a candle 2/3rds the distance away as height to pivot point of paper. If fan can't push the paper enough for it to catch of fine it's not moving enough air.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mav451*
> 
> Doyll - *my statement is on the CM Silencio*, not the A14. Like I said, CTs charts showed to me that 140mm fans lose pressure as RPMs drop, much faster than 120s.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The second part of that qualification: Silencios in particular (per noise level and pressure), maintained pressure better than other competing 120mm fans, except say the GT.
> Again I require a VERY strong emphasis on noise levels, which as good as martin was, did not have the focus I wanted. Even still, once I saw what noise was detected on CT's equipment, I had a good idea of what was acceptable to me.
> 
> To me, 7v SFF21E are perfect. Per CT's numbers, these are 7.2 dba.
> Contrast this with my A15 PWMs at 600RPM (11.7dba) or the crappier early gen Noctuas (P12/P14) haha.
> 
> So often what I did was set one variable, and then see what it corresponded to. E.g. what RPM is required for a certain pressure? Or what noise level corresponded to what pressure? In the end, my standardization came down to only one thing: Noise. CT has a ton of information with their tables, so you could do this analysis all day, comparing pressure by noise levels. Note - this isn't quite radiator performance per noise levels, but at least the noise element is accounted for as a true variable here.
> 
> So I put together a couple tables for 11.7dba (basically what pressure I get from competing fans at the same noise levels I have now), and then an 8.8dba table. I didn't really finish that 8.8dba fan table as my current S-Flex already beats the Silencio at this noise level...in which case there's no further point to look into it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 11.7dba table highlights the pressure of a few fans at this noise level: Silencio (0.635) and GT (.82) were the real standouts here. The Fractal HP-12 (given interpolation) was also a factor here (0.811). Contrast this to other 140mm (A15 = 0.381, F140 = 0.381), and it became clear I should probably stick to 120mms.
> 
> Again my main point - very few sites put that low-noise focus that I want; but at least with CTs database, I can easily compare it to each other.
> 
> PS: SPCR already reviewed the GrandFlex fans long ago...not good results. Like I said the combination of great pressure, at low noise levels, and FDB? The FDB is what got me interested in the Silencio - and I've never used a Coolermaster fan lol
> 
> 
> .


The graph lagittaja posted in reply to me has 2 Silencio fans. They are easy to spot because they are the lowest lines on graph between 20cfm and 40cfm. below 0.4mm H2O.
But if you don't need more than 20cfm and only have a very low restriction grill creating airflow resistance, they might work.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Well there's the contact page. International > Damiano Villa founder of CT. Link to Google+ page or press _modulo contatti_ to send him an email through the website. If you're on Facebook they've a page there, I've contacted them through there once.
> http://coolingtechnique.com/contact.html
> 
> The one I linked to couple of posts back.
> Here's it again for your convenience
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://coolingtechnique.com/guide/metodologie-di-test/399-galleria-del-vento.html


yeah, I've looked at that discription. a few images with partial views of test system, a video about how hotwire anemometers work, and not much else. Detailed description of how noise levels are measured, but almost nothing about pressure differential measurements or how they control the pressure differential. While their results seem accurate, I can't help but wonder how they are getting all the data. To monitor the mm H2O differences requires at least 3 manometers; one for room, one in test fan discharge chamber, and one in pressure differential chamber. Mos tof this kind of test systems have a 2nd fan on exhaust end of system and metering system to control the mm H2O in chamber fan is pulling from to be able to create a 0.0mm H2O differential between test fan intake and discharge. Over the years I've seen and used a few flow rate wind tunnels. They are rather big even when limited to 300cfm and cost thousands of dollars, pounds, euros, etc. Most facilities having this kind of equipment are very proud of it and like to show it off to prove how accurate their testing is.


----------



## MasterBash

I have to choose between the Phanteks F140XP or NF-P14s 1200-PWM. All my fans run in "Silent" setting in the Bios. I want both silence and good performance at low rpm, which is why I am choosing between Phanteks and Noctua.

Which one do I choose? With the Phanteks fans there are some pwm clicking, but they are still good. I used to dislike Noctua because I had to run their fans at full rpm (or use the adapters), but now that they have pwm fans, I can have more control and some people seem to think they are as good as they get (along with vardar).

The Phanteks fit better with my case... They are black and white. Similar specs to the F140HP and I honestly cant tell the difference between both. However, the minimum rpm I can get them to is like around 600. Noctua (according to the specs of the fans), they can run as low as 350. All according to specs (I have no tools to verify if its true), the F140XP should outperform the Noctua at the same rpm, by quite a bit apparently. However, I don't know how they tested their fans.

EDIT: Apparently Vardar fans are available here too, but quite expensive.

They will be used as case fans. I am open to other brands, but I doubt there is anything else on the level of Phanteks, Vardar and Noctua.


----------



## Cyb3r

masterbash which case do you use? cause the noctua's lose alot off their effeciency if the outside of the blades is semi blocked like in for example my nanoxia deep silence 6 it's why most times the phanteks win


----------



## MasterBash

Define R5. I will be using them in the bottom of the case (or I can use them in front, I just have to put my current front fans at the bottom). So I will have some power supply cables in the way of one of the fans, but thats about it.


----------



## Cyb3r

hmmm in the front the noctuas would probably face the same issues as in my nanoxia ds6 it's a bit tricky to answer but i'm going to guess your better off with the phanteks you can allways try both ofcourse though


----------



## Cyclops

My setup:



http://imgur.com/gcQ4N


----------



## NFL

Looking to replace the front 200mm in my Evolv ITX with a pair of 140's, any suggestions?


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyb3r*
> 
> hmmm in the front the noctuas would probably face the same issues as in my nanoxia ds6 it's a bit tricky to answer but i'm going to guess your better off with the phanteks you can allways try both ofcourse though


Thanks for the answer. What about Vardar F1 140mm? I keep hearing about the Vardar fans. However, if I do listen to to this : 



 The Vardar sounds awful (120mm version) compared to the Gentle Typhoon (From Nidec... are those the same as the Scythe ones? and 120mm instead of 140mm) and my Phanteks fans. Unfortunately, I cant compare them to Noctuas because they didnt use the NF-P14s PWM ones.

I am thinking the 140mm Phanteks could be my best bet if Noctua fans are not as good with a fan filter.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Thanks for the answer. What about Vardar F1 140mm? I keep hearing about the Vardar fans. However, if I do listen to to this :
> 
> 
> 
> The Vardar sounds awful (120mm version) compared to the Gentle Typhoon (From Nidec... are those the same as the Scythe ones? and 120mm instead of 140mm) and my Phanteks fans. Unfortunately, I cant compare them to Noctuas because they didnt use the NF-P14s PWM ones.
> 
> I am thinking the 140mm Phanteks could be my best bet if Noctua fans are not as good with a fan filter.


Gentle Typhoon were / are all made by Nidec, and while Scythe sold them for several years they are no longer doing so. Now Nidec is making them with different options than when Scythe sold them. Like 1850rpm and 2150rpm having PWM control. Maybe I'm crazy (I am crazy) but to me a 120mm fan with 1850-2150rpm max speed, PWM control and an idle speed of about 400rpm or 140mm fans with 15-1800rpm max, PWM control and 3-400rpm idle are ideal for most applications.

EK Vardar have potential, but I'm not sure they are the way forward .. at least not yet. I don't believe 99% of what is on youtube, but there seem to be some noise issues being reported.

My personal favorites are GTs and Thermalright TY-14x series fans. Only problem is TY-14x use 120mm fan mounts and are not square .. yet. I'm hoping we will see a square version soon.


----------



## MasterBash

Unfortunately, I cant find the TY-149 or TY-147A (the ones that can run at 300rpm) in Canada. They look like good fans though. How do they compare to lets say Noctua PWM fans at low rpm?


----------



## doyll

NF-A14 and NF-A15 are about the same as TY-14x fans. Just look for the Noctua fans that have the same fan blades as TY-14x fans fan. As for 300rpm, don't worry. Few good fans can be heard at 600rpm anyway.


----------



## MicroCat

And in Canada, if one orders the TRs from the USA they cost about 3 times more than the Noctuas for about the same performance. And no warranty.

Noctua A15 - $23 CDN + free shipping.

TR TY-147A: $14.95USD + $32.00USD shipping + exchange and duties = $72 CDN

The legendary TR value for money not available in Canada.


----------



## MasterBash

Awesome. The TY's color would fit better with my case... but whatever. I am not going to pay that much for some Thermalright fans.

However, the 150mm on the A15 has me worried a bit, would it fit anywhere in my case (Fractal Design R5)? Whether I decide to put them in the front, back or bottom?

Another thing, I have used the NF-P14 before (non pwm). Whats the difference between the NF-P14 and NF-A15 when it comes to performance and noise?

Cheapest I can find the A15 is $27. Where did u find them @ 23?

Thanks!


----------



## MicroCat

Got them a month ago at: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX43955 - but they're at 24.99 now. Canadian peso at work.

A lower cost option: Noctua-NF-P14s-redux-1200 for $18.99 on Amazon - no worries about choco and cream and 150mm width conflicts.

My current low cost 140mm fan fav is the Rosewill (Akasa Apache) for $11.99 - not as smooth as the Nocs and a bit buzzy above 1000 rpm, but excellent value.

Just got a pair of the Fractal HP-14s for $18.99 at ncix - haven't tested them yet, but look good - will put them in a build over the holidays. Hoping they're reasonably close to the A14s for the same price I paid for the A15 last spring on sale. ;-)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> And in Canada, if one orders the TRs from the USA they cost about 3 times more than the Noctuas for about the same performance. And no warranty.
> 
> Noctua A15 - $23 CDN + free shipping.
> 
> TR TY-147A: $14.95USD + $32.00USD shipping + exchange and duties = $72 CDN
> 
> The legendary TR value for money not available in Canada.


Your nose is just out of joint because we know how much you want Thermalright.









You Canucks need to either get some Thermalright dealers or start smuggling.








I just heard TY-147A Sq and TY-143 Sq are real. I should have some first week of next year.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Awesome. The TY's color would fit better with my case... but whatever. I am not going to pay that much for some Thermalright fans.
> 
> However, the 150mm on the A15 has me worried a bit, would it fit anywhere in my case (Fractal Design R5)? Whether I decide to put them in the front, back or bottom?
> 
> Another thing, I have used the NF-P14 before (non pwm). Whats the difference between the NF-P14 and NF-A15 when it comes to performance and noise?
> 
> Cheapest I can find the A15 is $27. Where did u find them @ 23?
> 
> Thanks!


Don't get A15 for case fans. Get the A14 square models .. the ones with same blade design as A15 and The fabulous TY-14x series fans. (hear that MC







).


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Don't get A15 for case fans. Get the A14 square models .. the ones with same blade design as A15 and The fabulous TY-14x series fans. (hear that MC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


is there any reason for this?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> is there any reason for this?


Maybe you don't, but most people know that Noctua fans that look like TY-14x series fans have near identical performance; sound level, airflow, ability overcome resistance, etc.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23229617


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Don't get A15 for case fans. Get the A14 square models .. the ones with same blade design as A15 and The fabulous TY-14x series fans. (hear that MC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> is there any reason for this?


Square envy. doyll just likes putting square things in round holes and those gilded TYs won't let him.









If the case has space for the A15s, use them, I say. They're quieter than the A14s. If there's a need to run 140mm case fans over 1200rpm, there's a need for a better case.

;-)


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Are you serious?
> Maybe you don't, but most people know that Noctua fans that look like TY-14x series fans have near identical performance; sound level, airflow, ability overcome resistance, etc.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23229617


no i meant, why "square" A14 over A15, disregarding TY-14x and other TY-alternatives, i can't even get one of those.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Square envy. doyll just likes putting square things in round holes and those gilded TYs won't let him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the case has space for the A15s, use them, I say. They're quieter than the A14s. If there's a need to run 140mm case fans over 1200rpm, there's a need for a better case.
> 
> ;-)


thats quite disturbing... is that supposed to be a fetish? now i'm utterly disturbed.

well, it may or may not depend on the case, but wanting a higher air displacement rate inside the case is a valid reason, no?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> no i meant, why A14 over A15, disregarding TY-14x and other alternatives, i can't even get one of those.
> thats quite disturbing...
> 
> well, it may or may not depend on the case, but wanting a higher air displacement rate inside the case is a valid reason, no?


No.









Not at the expense of noise, imo. However, it's a personal choice, everyone has their personal tolerance threshold. If the test of the 7 zillion rpm delta taught us anything, the law of diminishing returns in airflow likes to return crazy levels of noise for a tiny drop in temps.

If spinning a few 140mm case intakes at 1000rpm vs 1500rpm results in 2-3 degrees higher cpu temps versus 6-10dB more noise, enjoy the heat cpu!


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> no i meant, why "square" A14 over A15, disregarding TY-14x and other TY-alternatives, i can't even get one of those.
> thats quite disturbing... is that supposed to be a fetish? now i'm utterly disturbed.
> 
> well, it may or may not depend on the case, but wanting a higher air displacement rate inside the case is a valid reason, no?


Because square NF-A14 (140x140mm) fits in the Define R5 (say 2 in the front) vs the NF-A15 (140x*150*mm) which because it is "round" it doesn't quite fit.. Literally like trying to jam a round peg to a square hole.. Maybe you can fit one of them in the front but good lucking getting another one to fit.
Of course in the rear there's more room for the fan so you probably could fit it there, haven't tried so can't say for sure. Regular square 140mm fan fits just fine so why bother buying the NF-A15's which might or might not fit.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at the expense of noise, imo. However, it's a personal choice, everyone has their personal tolerance threshold. If the test of the 7 zillion rpm delta taught us anything, the law of diminishing returns in airflow likes to return crazy levels of noise for a tiny drop in temps.
> 
> If spinning a few 140mm case intakes at 1000rpm vs 1500rpm results in 2-3 degrees higher cpu temps versus 6-10dB more noise, enjoy the heat cpu!


i was under the impression that running 140mm 1500RPM fans is quieter and more effective than 120mm 1800RPM fans.
though considering air displacement, higher RPM at the same fan diameter isn't entirely the deciding factor i suppose.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Because square NF-A14 (140x140mm) fits in the Define R5 (say 2 in the front) vs the NF-A15 (140x*150*mm) which because it is "round" it doesn't quite fit.. Literally like trying to jam a round peg to a square hole.. Maybe you can fit one of them in the front but good lucking getting another one to fit.
> Of course in the rear there's more room for the fan so you probably could fit it there, haven't tried so can't say for sure. Regular square 140mm fan fits just fine so why bother buying the NF-A15's which might or might not fit.


good point, though if space isn't an issue, then there shouldn't be a problem right?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i was under the impression that running 140mm 1500RPM fans is quieter and more effective than 120mm 1800RPM fans.
> though considering air displacement, higher RPM at the same fan diameter isn't entirely the deciding factor i suppose.
> good point, though if space isn't an issue, then there shouldn't be a problem right?


What lagittaja said.

Depends on mounting as well as size.

MC is incorrect. Some of the A14's are nice and quiet with good airflow too.

The link I posted above show performance comparisons.

As said, 150x140mm fans don't always fit. Add this to the 105mm mounting holes instead of 124.5mm standard spacing of 140mm fans and it can be the nightmare before Xmas.


----------



## Cyclops

Fan A is 120mm.
Fan B is 140mm.

They are of the same design and move exactly the same amount of air.

Fan A is louder but has higher static pressure.
Fan B is quieter but has lower static pressure.

That's the golden rule.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Depends on mounting as well as size.
> MC is incorrect. Some of the A14's have nice and quiet with good airflow too.
> 
> The link I posted above show performance conparisons.


Nice and quiet _below_ 1200rpm...the charts you quoted in that thread are for the A14 Industrial edition - for industrial noise levels. It's obvious that your noise tolerance is much higher than mine and why you can spend more time on internet forums than I.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Nice and quiet _below_ 1200rpm...the charts you quoted in that thread are for the A14 Industrial edition - for industrial noise levels. It's obvious that your noise tolerance is much higher than mine and why you can spend more time on internet forums than I.


Open our eyes, turn on the lights and put on your glasses. Look at the last data image.
Only two are iPPC fans There is also normal A14 and A15 fans.
You need to look at their lower rpm performance as well.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Open our eyes, turn on the lights and put on your glasses. Look at the last data image.
> Only two are iPPC fans There is also normal A14 and A15 fans.
> You need to look at their lower rpm performance as well.


Looks like a kidnapping note from the notorious air cooler gang.

At the lower rpms the A14 is within 1-2dB, but what's the point? Just get the lower rpm (and quieter) version to begin with. Make the case fit the fan. That's what nibblers are for.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Looks like a kidnapping note from the notorious air cooler gang.
> 
> At the lower rpms the A14 is within 1-2dB, but what's the point? Just get the lower rpm (and quieter) version to begin with. Make the case fit the fan. That's what nibblers are for.


Okay, you go ahead and ride your moped. I"ll keep my superbike. In town we can both put along at 25mph and set in traffic the same. But when I leave the city I'll leave you in my dust too.









Why use a fan that is limited to 800rpm when a 1500rpm fan does the same thing at 800rpm? After all, PWM and automatic fan controls make it easy to do, and if at some unforeseen time we need more rpm / airflow, it's jsut setting there waiting to be used.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Okay, you go ahead and ride your moped. I"ll keep my superbike. In town we can both put along at 25mph and set in traffic the same. But when I leave the city I'll leave you in my dust too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why use a fan that is limited to 800rpm when a 1500rpm fan does the same thing at 800rpm? After all, PWM and automatic fan controls make it easy to do, and if at some unforeseen time we need more rpm / airflow, it's jsut setting there waiting to be used.


Gas guzzler!!! Think of the air molecules' children!!!









Why? Because, in my quiet country studio hideaway, I can't take the racket of any 140mm fan beyond 1200rpm. Under PWM they idle <300rpm and get throaty enough with 1200ish rpm at full electric moped boost.

And that rush of semi-quiet air is enough to keep the OC'd hex-core Xeon under 60c. If I wanted more noise, guess I could always get an AIO.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Gas guzzler!!! Think of the air molecules' children!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Because, in my quiet country studio hideaway, I can't take the racket of any 140mm fan beyond 1200rpm. Under PWM they idle <300rpm and get throaty enough with 1200ish rpm at full electric moped boost.
> 
> And that rush of semi-quiet air is enough to keep the OC'd hex-core Xeon under 60c. If I wanted more noise, guess I could always get an AIO.


But now it's winter and Ice Truckers are making noise.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Would you recommend the Arctic cooling f12 fans for rads? I've got 2 rads and I have the value pack cooler master fans... I think I need an upgrade, they're quiet but not the best air flow.


----------



## miklkit

Hmm, not sure about rads. They are good at pull which makes them good case fans and they work well on air cooling towers.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

For $21 with free shipping for 5 of them I can't really beat that. They will definitely be better than my current cm value pack fans so I'm considering that a win. I've had the value pack fans for 3 year so I think it's time for some replacements. If they're 1-3c better in temps for my rads I consider that a win.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> For $21 with free shipping for 5 of them I can't really beat that. They will definitely be better than my current cm value pack fans so I'm considering that a win. I've had the value pack fans for 3 year so I think it's time for some replacements. If they're 1-3c better in temps for my rads I consider that a win.


At $4.20 each it's hard to go wrong. Even if you only need 2 or 3 now, the others with get used in due time.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Mk. I went ahead and got the 5 pack since I have a gift card... Should be good. I wanted to get them right away since I'll have them once I get home.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Maybe you don't, but most people know that Noctua fans that look like TY-14x series fans have near identical performance; sound level, airflow, ability overcome resistance, etc.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23229617


By the way, thanks for those graphs. Very helpful. However, I find it weird that going from 870rpm to 970rpm increases the noise level by 6 dB(A) on the A14. Yet, the iPPC A14 stays nice and quiet @ 14,8. The fans have similar design, is there any reason for this?

Also the A14 has a rated minimum speed of 300rpm. Do I need to use the LNA adapter to get that low? I noticed your minimum rpm in your last graph at 662rpm... Is it because the fans wouldnt run any lower than that?

Thanks!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> By the way, thanks for those graphs. Very helpful. However, I find it weird that going from 870rpm to 970rpm increases the noise level by 6 dB(A) on the A14. Yet, the iPPC A14 stays nice and quiet @ 14,8. The fans have similar design, is there any reason for this?
> 
> Also the A14 has a rated minimum speed of 300rpm. Do I need to use the LNA adapter to get that low? I noticed your minimum rpm in your last graph at 662rpm... Is it because the fans wouldnt run any lower than that?
> 
> Thanks!


At a glance I would say it's an anomaly. If you look at other A14 to A15 or iPPC dB(A) they are all within abut 2dB(A) of each other at similar rpm .. except the 4.1dB(A) difference at 970rpm. These sort of differences are why the interpretations of statistics can be manipulated. Keeping in mind the average ear needs about 3dB(A) change in dB(A) to hear a difference in noise level, even 4.1dB(A) is not much of a difference. Add +/-1dB(A) margin of error and that 4.1 dB(A) difference could be 2.1dBA difference.









It's similar to CPU temp charts showing 0.015c differences when the room temperature thermometer is reading 0.1 degree accuracy and temps are between 21c and 22.5c.







A 1.5c margin of error with CPU temp readings to within 0.1c means there is no 0.1c differences.







The are 0.1c +/- 0.75c means a 33.5c reading might really be 32.75c or 34. 25c .. but the reviewer is "claiming" the cooler is "better" because cooler A CPU temp was 0.75c better than cooler B. The truth is the margin of error in the testing means it could be 0.75c hotter "worse".









The 300rpm NF-A14 PWM spec. is:
Min. Rotational Speed (PWM, +/-20%) 300 RPM
That is 240-360rpm at lowest PWM signal speed with 12v power to fan .. no LNA involved.

What you will get is dependent on how low your PWM signal source can be adjusted to. Some mobos will not go below 30%

The graph is of fans running at a specified voltage, not a percent of PWM signal.

I think it is fair to say the TY-14x fans are as good or better than NF-A1x fans. With the rumor mill saying TY-147A Sq and TY-143 Sq fans are in the works, U'm very interested in seeing how they will perform against Noctua and others. My guess is their performance against their round siblings will be the same as comparisons between A14 and A15 .. near identical .. making them a very good square alternative in the 1300rpm and 2500rpm 140mm fan marketplace.


----------



## ivanlabrie

This thread is really great...how are you gents?
Merry xmas and happy new year!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> This thread is really great...how are you gents?
> Merry xmas and happy new year!


Hello!


----------



## Helmbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> This thread is really great...how are you gents?
> Merry xmas and happy new year!


Merry christmas, and happy new year, to you too sir


----------



## forestsprite

So, I don't have time to read this entire thread, so I was hoping someone in the know could help me out with my first real build.

I need a low profile CPU cooler for what will be a 6600k Skylake in a Corsair Carbide Air 240 case. I believe the max cooler height I can get away with is 120mm, give or take a little bit.

I'm currently looking at the Zalman CNPS9500A, the DEEPCOOL Gamer Storm GABRIEL or a low profile Noctua (not sure which). It seems like a no-brainer to go with one of the Noctuas, but I'm not sure which is currently the best value and will fit, but also I'm not a huge fan of the brown/beige. Are there any other decent coolers out there I'm missing? I do want a mild overclock, and it will be my first time overclocking. Can an air cooler get to around 4.5GHz safely and quietly?

My complete part list:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($359.00 @ Canada Computers)
*CPU Cooler:* Noctua NH-L9i 57.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($56.21 @ Vuugo)
*Motherboard:* Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($176.07 @ Newegg Canada)
*Memory:* Avexir Core Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($99.00)
*Storage:* Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($179.00 @ Canada Computers)
*Storage:* Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
*Video Card:* EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card ($405.00 @ Canada Computers)
*Case:* Corsair Air 240 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($109.28 @ NCIX)
*Power Supply:* EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($143.83 @ NCIX)
*Total:* $1527.39
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available_
_Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-28 10:20 EST-0500_

Also, the number of fans tested here from page one is insane. Good job!


----------



## epic1337

4.5Ghz is a pretty high target, a 120mm AIO would be the best choice for that.
though if water is not an option, NH-D9L should be a good alternative, but its better to replace the fan with a stronger one.


----------



## forestsprite

Hmmm, that's good to know. Originally I was going to do a water cooling system but I figured it was quieter and cheaper to do an air cooled build. What amount of overclocking is reasonable to expect with an air cooled fan?


----------



## lagittaja

The Air 240 is a bit more difficult case for air cooling. It was designed more with an AIO CPU cooler in mind.

But anyway. The NH-D9L is an option if you want a tower cooler. It could benefit slightly from a better fan but honestly though, that NF-A9 PWM it comes with is just about as good as it gets in that size category.
Adding a second fan on it does increase it's performance, by ~2½-3½C on LGA115x platform according to FrostyTech's review
The extra NF-A9 PWM would bump it's price to *95 CAD* (69,95+25,99).

Then there's the NH-C14S (*94 CAD*) which would fit in the Air 240 in the Low Profile mode, e.g. fan _beneath_ the cooler.
Which is the way the NH-C14S ships and Noctua's compatibility list has a green light with the motherboard you selected.
With the fan beneath the cooler it's height is 115mm and the clearance below it is 40mm. So your Avexir Core Series DDR4 sticks would fit, Avexir states they're 40mm tall.

The NH-C14S is a lot better than NH-D9L (two fan) config. I'd say it's pretty much among the best performing air coolers you can get that are 120mm or lower in height.
Also the color of the fan (which you're not a fan of) is pretty hard to see through the heatsink.


----------



## forestsprite

Wow, thanks lagittaja for such a detailed reply!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> The Air 240 is a bit more difficult case for air cooling. It was designed more with an AIO CPU cooler in mind.
> 
> Then there's the NH-C14S (*94 CAD*) which would fit in the Air 240 in the Low Profile mode, e.g. fan _beneath_ the cooler.
> Which is the way the NH-C14S ships and Noctua's compatibility list has a green light with the motherboard you selected.
> With the fan beneath the cooler it's height is 115mm and the clearance below it is 40mm. So your Avexir Core Series DDR4 sticks would fit, Avexir states they're 40mm tall.
> 
> The NH-C14S is a lot better than NH-D9L (two fan) config. I'd say it's pretty much among the best performing air coolers you can get that are 120mm or lower in height.
> Also the color of the fan (which you're not a fan of) is pretty hard to see through the heatsink.


I've been reading reviews of different things all day and was thinking about maybe going to an AIO cooler after all (Corsair H55 maybe?) but I really like the idea now of getting the Noctua NH-C14S. It IS a little bit pricey, but if it can keep decent thermals while still being quiet (and stylish!) I think it'd be worth it. Now just to decide between the Gigabyte Z170MX-Gaming 5 and the Asus Z170M-PLUS, and then between that flashy (and possible cheesy) Avexir ram or some metallic red Corsair or G.Skill ram (which kinda depends on which motherboard). Building a PC can be kinda stressful...


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forestsprite*
> 
> Wow, thanks lagittaja for such a detailed reply!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been reading reviews of different things all day and was thinking about maybe going to an AIO cooler after all (Corsair H55 maybe?) but I really like the idea now of getting the Noctua NH-C14S. It IS a little bit pricey, but if it can keep decent thermals while still being quiet (and stylish!) I think it'd be worth it. Now just to decide between the Gigabyte Z170MX-Gaming 5 and the Asus Z170M-PLUS, and then between that flashy (and possible cheesy) Avexir ram or some metallic red Corsair or G.Skill ram (which kinda depends on which motherboard). Building a PC can be kinda stressful...


No problem. Well, you've got decisions to make









I'll just say that I'd personally think between the air cooler vs 240 AIO, not air cooler vs 120 AIO like the H55.
Also, if you go with the NH-C14S, remember the clearance below the cooler for RAM is 40mm with the fan beneath the cooler. Something like TridentZ (44mm) or Ripjaws V (42mm) from G.Skill won't fit, so check the RAM height before you buy.

In regard to flashy/cheesy RAM, it's also worth to note that with the NH-C14S...

...you barely even see the RAM as the cooler hangs above the RAM slots. So yeah..









I don't personally care much for LED's in my own computers (or windows either) but those LED RAM sticks might look cool below the heatsink.
Though if they're the only light source in the build and since the fan spins above them, I don't know how that would look, hopefully it won't be a rave (or hopefully it will be if that floats your boat).

P.S. The NH-C14S comes with the NF-A14 PWM fan which has a 300-1500rpm range but it comes with one of those LNA adapters so you can restrict the max speed to 1200rpm which is a little more sane for a 140mm fan.
I have one of those handling intake in my case (R5), really good fan. Full tilt 1500rpm? You'll hear it from far away, if restricted to 1200rpm it's not that bad. For me it becomes unnoticeable somewhere below 850rpm. But I'm one of those people who want as quiet computer as possible.
But since it will be mounted on a heatsink (below it) and won't be so close to openings in the case it will probably be unnoticeable to you up until 1000rpm or so. That _of course_ depends on your environment (background noise), your personal hearing and preferences, other components in the build and so on.


----------



## Colin_MC

I'd like to change my Be Quiet Silent Wings 2 120mm (3 fans). I'd like to have PWM control (voltage - if it has nice range), with lowest rpm of 400-600 and high setting od about 1000-1200rpm.
I want to have more airflow than BQ (which are very quiet, but almost don't blow). I'm considering Phobya NB E-loop 1600 (red ones). Maybe you have some other nice alternatives? (available in Europe)


----------



## Cakewalk_S

So I've been using the Cooler Master R4-L2S-124K-GP also known as the "value pack" from CM. Whereas they're decent case fans if you're looking for something quiet...they're not the best for rads. I switched yesterday to the Arctic Cooling F12 case fans @ 1350RPM. Wow what a difference! I didn't really realize that fans for rads made that much of a difference. Yes, definitely more noise but definitely more air flow. I dropped 4C on both my CPU and GPU since they're the same rads. Definitely a well worth investment. I also like how small the motor hub is on the fan. Seems like the motor is much more reasonable in size for the fan...


----------



## csdp31732

I've got a case full of Noctua INDUSTRIAL series fans, so I'm just eating my popcorn watchin' you guy stress about which fan to buy. LOL.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csdp31732*
> 
> I've got a case full of Noctua INDUSTRIAL series fans, so I'm just eating my popcorn watchin' you guy stress about which fan to buy. LOL.


Aahh yes. Those expensive noise makers.


----------



## MrKoala

Industrial fans tend to be too high-speed oriented for PC use. But if you enjoy Noctuas, sure, they work.


----------



## doyll

When I first say the Noctua "industrial" fans I had to snicker. They are not really "industrial" fans if they are being marketed to general public.


----------



## gree

Hey i was wondering if i could get some personal help, my pc is kinda an odd one.

I would like to keep cool a 980ti and a 5930k.



I have 3 jetflo 120s as exhaust currently, but my temps arent very good.
this pc really needs watercooling, but i cant afford it right now so hopefully my new fans will fit on a 360 rad.

Side question, one of my 3 jetflos sounds like its gonna die. Would adding a different brand fan and keeping the other 2 be a problem?


----------



## Helmbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gree*
> 
> Hey i was wondering if i could get some personal help, my pc is kinda an odd one.
> 
> I would like to keep cool a 980ti and a 5930k.
> 
> 
> 
> I have 3 jetflo 120s as exhaust currently, but my temps arent very good.
> this pc really needs watercooling, but i cant afford it right now so hopefully my new fans will fit on a 360 rad.
> 
> Side question, one of my 3 jetflos sounds like its gonna die. Would adding a different brand fan and keeping the other 2 be a problem?


just a quick look at that setup. you would definitely be best served with water.


----------



## gree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Helmbo*
> 
> just a quick look at that setup. you would definitely be best served with water.


I plan to once i have the funds , but with work/hours the way it is i usually only have about $70 free after bills and food. (I have the custom looped planned out, but im running on a air cooler for now)

It runs okay untill my game gets intense then i start getting high temps. And one of my fans is dying atm, so i kinda wanna replace that so that im not running on only 2 fans.

Heres a pic of my system from september 2105


----------



## epic1337

whats the point of supporting ATX motherboards if the ribbon would block every other PCIe slots?
not to mention it only has 4 PCIe slots, rather than ATX, MATX would reduce vertical footprint.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gree*
> 
> I plan to once i have the funds , but with work/hours the way it is i usually only have about $70 free after bills and food. (I have the custom looped planned out, but im running on a air cooler for now)
> 
> It runs okay untill my game gets intense then i start getting high temps. And one of my fans is dying atm, so i kinda wanna replace that so that im not running on only 2 fans.


Your temps is higher for a few reasons, stock CPU cooler (hope it is not OC)
No intake and all the heat just lingers around. This will increase your temps. Having just exhaust does very little to lower GPU temps, due to the travel distance.
Unless you can mod the case to have intake fan near GPU.
This case is really meant for full watercooling loop (CPU+GPU)


----------



## gree

They do have smaller versions (05 and 06) which have a smaller footprint and use smaller mobos. I picked the 07s which supports watercooling and atx boards

The ribbon if moveable, i just have mine like that cos thd case wasnt really built for huge gpus.
The problem is it wasnt really built for my monster cpu and gpus xD

*Your temps is higher for a few reasons, stock CPU cooler (hope it is not OC)
No intake and all the heat just lingers around. This will increase your temps. Having just exhaust does very little to lower GPU temps, due to the travel distance.
Unless you can mod the case to have intake fan near GPU.
This case is really meant for full watercooling loop (CPU+GPU)*

Oh no oc. And yeah ive planning to custom loop but my have been having finnical hardship. So my best bet is just to buy another of the same fan to replace the dying one till i can afford to watercool?

This is what a finished version of this case could look like


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #72 - Noctua NF-S12B redux-700:





These are the 3-pin, lower RPM version of NF-S12B Redux-1200 PWM. They are best in class when considering noise to airflow ratio, and although they are dead silent and completely inaudible, they are not the best choice when it comes to high performance machines where you need more airflow to cool more powerful hardware.

Top marks for these puppies if you want absolute silence but I'd personally go with the 1200 RPM PWM version.


----------



## miklkit

I bought a Noctua fan, a NF-S12A PWM. It was dead silent but moved no air behind a filter. That one looks like more of the same.


----------



## doyll

It is a very low pressure fan. 0.44mm H2O and air movement is stopped.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I like the NF-S12B Redux-1200 PWM, it is on my Cryorig C1 and exhaust.
Works well in my system and keeps CPU cool enough for me.


----------



## doyll

My experience is the more open the blade design the less resistance the fan can overcome.
 

Steeper blade pitch usually increases noise too.

I haven't used any of these redux style fans, so can't say for sure.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> My experience is the more open the blade design the less resistance the fan can overcome.
> 
> 
> Steeper blade pitch usually increases noise too.
> 
> I haven't used any of these redux style fans, so can't say for sure.


Not far from the truth. The performance in push is pretty decent, but they lose a lot in pull:



Almost nothing comes close to NF-P12 for pull:



That's my go-to fan.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Not far from the truth. The performance in push is pretty decent, but they lose a lot in pull:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Almost nothing comes close to NF-P12 for pull:*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's my go-to fan.


That is quite a statement. Especially when your testing show 36 fans moving same or more air when pulling and more than 20 at similar temp and noise levels.

"Go to fan' I can understand. Personal noise likes / dislikes make a big difference .. although some Nocuta fans have noise nuances I find rather irritating. . But I find it hard to believe the NF-P12 is all that much better, even considering different noise nuances that some find more or less appealing / appalling. Please explain.


----------



## epic1337

i wonder why nobody had designed centrifugal type coolers, specially for dense fin rads, that would be interesting.
while noisy yes, centrifugal fans have the highest pressure to airflow ratio amongst widely used designs.

so far we mostly only see them on GPUs, and despite the 200W~300W heat-load, a single 60mm centrifugal fan can keep it cool enough to run stable.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> That is quite a statement. Especially when your testing show 36 fans moving same or more air when pulling and more than 20 at similar temp and noise levels.
> 
> "Go to fan' I can understand. Personal noise likes / dislikes make a big difference .. although some Nocuta fans have noise nuances I find rather irritating. . But I find it hard to believe the NF-P12 is all that much better, even considering different noise nuances that some find more or less appealing / appalling. Please explain.


I didn't say it was the fan that moved the most air. That would be a Delta fan. It is, however, the most efficient design that exists among the products that I've tested. Moves the most air per dB than pretty much everything else.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i wonder why nobody had designed centrifugal type coolers, specially for dense fin rads, that would be interesting.
> while noisy yes, centrifugal fans have the highest pressure to airflow ratio amongst widely used designs.
> 
> so far we mostly only see them on GPUs, and despite the 200W~300W heat-load, a single 60mm centrifugal fan can keep it cool enough to run stable.


If by cool enough you mean 85C on stock with moderate noise levels on something like a Titan-X, or 95C with an extremely loud noise profile in an R9 290X, then no, they are not that efficient.

The only benefit they have is that they exhaust all the hot air out the back of the case. There's a reason no AIB use those fans for their high end custom cards.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> If by cool enough you mean 85C on stock with moderate noise levels on something like a Titan-X, or 95C with an extremely loud noise profile in an R9 290X, then no, they are not that efficient.
> 
> The only benefit they have is that they exhaust all the hot air out the back of the case. There's a reason no AIB use those fans for their high end custom cards.


for a 60mm fan it is efficient, the only thing that it lacks is size.
if they could mount a 100mm centrifugal fan there i bet it'd be loud as f. and would be enough to cool things down below 80C.

in the air conditioner industry, centrifugal fans is like everywhere.
it actually depends on the design, it can be very quiet despite blowing a lot of air.


----------



## Worldwin

The style exists:http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-725.shtml
Only thing is that HIS no longer produces it. Maybe they'll make one for the 400 series of GPU.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i wonder why nobody had designed centrifugal type coolers, specially for dense fin rads, that would be interesting.
> while noisy yes, centrifugal fans have the highest pressure to airflow ratio amongst widely used designs.
> 
> so far we mostly only see them on GPUs, and despite the 200W~300W heat-load, a single 60mm centrifugal fan can keep it cool enough to run stable.


But at the expense of extreme noise.

At the same time the majority of GPUs use radial fans and cool as well with way less noise.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I didn't say it was the fan that moved the most air. That would be a Delta fan. It is, however, the most efficient design that exists among the products that I've tested. Moves the most air per dB than pretty much everything else.


Sorry, GT design is just as good in all respects .. as are many other fans you have tested have very similar cooling ability at very similar noise levels .. including the much lower priced Arctic Cooling F12. I'm not saying the NF-P12 is not a great fan. Just that there are many others in the same group. You as a respected fan tester owe it to your audience not to set the NF-P12 on a pedestal and leave all of it's equals in the gutter.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Worldwin*
> 
> The style exists:http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-725.shtml
> Only thing is that HIS no longer produces it. Maybe they'll make one for the 400 series of GPU.


Haven't really looked in awhile, but don't all 'reference' coolers use centrifugal / squirrel cage / blower fans?


----------



## Bonjovi

Hello guys
I bought this twin pack 5x http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-SP120-High-Performance-CO-9050014-WW/dp/B00C249QNE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1452440772&sr=8-4&keywords=corsair+sp+120mm+fan

3xTwin Pack for XSPC EX360 (Push/pull) . and 2xTwin pack for XSPC RX240 (Push/Pull)

What can you say? Its PWM fans

I have http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/Rheosmart/6.html This Fan controller

and
Lamptron Fan-Atic This http://www.lamptron.com/product/controllers/fan-atic-5-port/

Alsow im gonna take http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RESG3A?keywords=af%20120mm&qid=1452441017&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
This AF 120 Performanse . or ill takr AF 140 . I need to think about it.

In case ill have 11x fan and all of them i can switch on my fan controllers.

I took PWM Fans for future maybe ill change controllers maybe not but i took maximum what i could.

What you think ?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sorry, GT design is just as good in all respects .. as are many other fans you have tested have very similar cooling ability at very similar noise levels .. including the much lower priced Arctic Cooling F12. I'm not saying the NF-P12 is not a great fan. Just that there are many others in the same group. You as a respected fan tester owe it to your audience not to set the NF-P12 on a pedestal and leave all of it's equals in the gutter.


P12 sits on top of the noise to temp ratio in two of the three charts. It deserves its own pedestal and I think all fans should strive to perform as well as the P12 does. The pull performance is second to none with push a close second behind.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> But at the expense of extreme noise.
> 
> At the same time the majority of GPUs use radial fans and cool as well with way less noise.


very true, centrifugal fan's advantage of high pressure to airflow ratio is skewed by high noise.
though i've yet to test low-speed mode for small centrifugal fans, the airflow on the large ones are still quite a lot, and the noise drops dramatically.

if i had to think of a reason why centrifugal fans might be a good power-house fan, it'd be the case of having as much headroom as a 5400RPM fan.
you can dial down the power when on idle and low loads, then linearly ramp it up according to temperature.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Haven't really looked in awhile, but don't all 'reference' coolers use centrifugal / squirrel cage / blower fans?


not really, they've went with axial and a chunk of aluminum as heatsink on reference cards.

though rarely, we'd find ones with centrifugals, like the ones on Titan cards.


----------



## Bonjovi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bonjovi*
> 
> Hello guys
> I bought this twin pack 5x http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-SP120-High-Performance-CO-9050014-WW/dp/B00C249QNE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1452440772&sr=8-4&keywords=corsair+sp+120mm+fan
> 
> 3xTwin Pack for XSPC EX360 (Push/pull) . and 2xTwin pack for XSPC RX240 (Push/Pull)
> 
> What can you say? Its PWM fans
> 
> I have http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/Rheosmart/6.html This Fan controller
> 
> and
> Lamptron Fan-Atic This http://www.lamptron.com/product/controllers/fan-atic-5-port/
> 
> Alsow im gonna take http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RESG3A?keywords=af%20120mm&qid=1452441017&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
> This AF 120 Performanse . or ill takr AF 140 . I need to think about it.
> 
> In case ill have 11x fan and all of them i can switch on my fan controllers.
> 
> I took PWM Fans for future maybe ill change controllers maybe not but i took maximum what i could.
> 
> What you think ?


?


----------



## mrtbahgs

I just bought a couple of Thermaltake Riing 12 fans and was hoping to find them on your graphs, but it looks like you haven't tested them.
Not sure if you are still adding ones these days, but I figured I would mention them to put them on your radar.


----------



## Cyclops

Ask TT to send me a couple. Might be interesting.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

In my old build I used 4x NF-P12 on my 240 rad. I tried the NF-F12, but the noise profile from them I did not like.
When Noctua announced they are making the NF-P12 in 140mm Redux I had to get them for my current system.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> In my old build I used 4x NF-P12 on my 240 rad. I tried the NF-F12, but the noise profile from them I did not like.
> When Noctua announced they are making the NF-P12 in 140mm Redux I had to get them for my current system.


Yeah, the F12s are not as good as P12s despite public perception, primarily because of LinusDumbTips.

I mean the guy once claimed the Bitfenix Spectre pros "actually are pretty good". In reality, they are total garbage.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, the F12s are not as good as P12s despite public perception, primarily because of LinusDumbTips.
> 
> I mean the guy once claimed the Bitfenix Spectre pros "actually are pretty good". In reality, they are total garbage.


So much this.

I don't personally like either fan and I don't actually have any personal experience with the F12 but the P12 I do.
My main gripe with them back in the day was the noise nuances doyll actually mentioned.
Specifically the howling or whining at higher RPM's.
Of course nowadays that wouldn't matter so much for me since I run my fans at much, much lower speeds.

But I do agree with you that P12 > F12.

Did you btw see the new fans from Cooler Master they showed off at CES? MasterFan Pro 120/140.
Basically their JetFlo with opaque plastic, GT-esque balanced fan and the FP120. All with rubber corners. POM bearings.









The balanced fan might be interesting. Have to look out for tests.

But personally the fan/fans I'm mostly looking forward to are actually from Noctua..
That's of course their next generation 120mm and 140mm fans, basically their version of a GT and a blown up GT.
Too bad they didn't have any news about them yet (or something they could share) when I asked about a week ago.
Didn't expect anything more from them since this is Noctua we're talking about. They'll release when they feel like it's ready








I mean like how long has that 200mm fan been coming, they've worked on it something like a few years now.

Let's hope they'll send you have few samples when they get released


----------



## epic1337

this made me wonder, does the heatsink's fin design affect the pressure and noise of these fans?
e.g. dense fins, wide fins, toothed fins, notched fins, etc. theres a lot of variations.

so far for case grille, there was one study about types of grilles, honeycomb, concentric circles, vertical/horizontal cut-outs, squares, mesh, etc.


----------



## Cyclops

Those CMs looks like many other blade designs that I've seen. They've just seem to have blinged it up a bit with better aesthetics.


----------



## gree

Anybody know if these charts are reliable for a 5930k? Im thinking it would take a little more to cool it


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I tried CM POM bearing from JetFlo and did not like the deep grunt from the PWM. When running slower speed, just got even worse.
8 of them could not be an issue, just a bad design.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gree*
> 
> Anybody know if these charts are reliable for a 5930k? Im thinking it would take a little more to cool it


Which chart?


----------



## gree

On the first page the results are all tested using a i7 920.

mainly im curious if ek-furious-vardar 3000rpm will do a good job. Or if theres any other 3000rpm fan thats better for a haswell-e cpu/980ti


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gree*
> 
> On the first page the results are all tested using a i7 920.
> 
> mainly im curious if ek-furious-vardar 3000rpm will do a good job. Or if theres any other 3000rpm fan thats better for a haswell-e cpu/980ti


That will vary on the cooler, case, ambient temps, airflow and OC.


----------



## gree

Its the one from earlier, im still picking out the parts but so far im thinking of the koolance hx-1020 tripple radiator with three 3000rpm pwm fans, a ek xress 100 revo d5 pwm, bitspower block on the 980ti and an ek supremacy evo block for the 5930k.

Winter the thermostat is anywhere from 68F to 70F
Summer is around 80F's
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Your temps is higher for a few reasons, stock CPU cooler (hope it is not OC)
> No intake and all the heat just lingers around. This will increase your temps. Having just exhaust does very little to lower GPU temps, due to the travel distance.
> Unless you can mod the case to have intake fan near GPU.
> This case is really meant for full watercooling loop (CPU+GPU)


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

The koolance hx-1020 is not a good rad to take. Poor build quality and dense FPI, which leads to running fans at higher speed to get benefits.
I would avoid that one.

You wont know the temps till you actually build your system


----------



## gree

Well now im confused i posted in the watercooling forums last year and was told to use that radiator that it was good.

And that id likely need higher speed fans if i insist on using only one radiator due to the nature of my case high heat producing parts (980ti and 5930k)


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I looked at the post you did and not one said hx-1020 was good.
They mentioned HX-CU1020V which is a 30fpi, that needs high speed fans and a strong pump. With being very restrictive.
To get the most out of the HX-CU1020V 2000rpm fans.

I do not like aluminum rads which the hx-1020
Faster speed fan will need to run with higher FPI to get the most of it.
With denser rads you have to push the fans faster to push the air through. Running 3x Vardars at 300orpm will not be quiet.

What is the thickest rad you can fit in your case?

I prefer HWLabs Nemesis. Lower FPI and good flow. Allow to run lower fan speed for silence, or speed up to decrease temps.


----------



## gree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *niejasiek*
> 
> This cpu when overclocked will easily pull 250W, so you are looking at around 500W total heat under stress-test load.
> 
> To put your fan choice into perspective: for stress load in a recent build with 5820k at 4GHz and a 200W gtx970 (around 400W total), a thick 420mm rad was barely enough with 1200rpm fans and ambient well below 30C.
> 
> So imho like earlier - either get a high fpi rad and some noisy ~2k rpm fans, or forget about overclocking.
> (or get a bigger external rad, and have both silence and performance)


Referencing this post, they say i need a high fpi rad

Lian Li's spec sheet says

Space of Radiator(W)400mm (D)132mm (H)60mm

This includes the fans tho, so 60mm - fan thickness. So prbly 35mm?



Are you positive about that one? I vaguely recall somebody strongly opposing that radiator. As far as noise, the only objection i have is coil whine otherwise it can be a bit louder. My main preferance is keeping cool as id like to use this pc to do 4k video editing and play games at 1440p.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

opposing which rad?
Have you though about a different case, one that is better at airflow?
Take a measure yourself and see exactly how much space you have. best way to be sure.


----------



## gree

The Nemesis, i at one point was thinking about it based on reviews.

Right now its 35mm cos i have 25mm thick fans.

The case was very expensive and would be hard to sale, so i would rather not

I found somebody with a similar build on youtube but i dont know if their parts are any good (same case and a haswell m-e but with a titan x)


----------



## AlienPrime173

Would love to see some koolance 120x38 rad fans added. Or maybe even Gelid 12PL's









Love this thread tho!


----------



## fat4l

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, the F12s are not as good as P12s despite public perception, primarily because of LinusDumbTips.
> 
> I mean the guy once claimed the Bitfenix Spectre pros "actually are pretty good". In reality, they are total garbage.


Hi man.
Could you please share your opinion on this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1588602/fan-choice-for-watercool-mo-ra-3-420-pro-lt-18x140mm-vs-8x200mm/0_30

Thank you!


----------



## AlienPrime173

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fat4l*
> 
> Hi man.
> Could you please share your opinion on this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1588602/fan-choice-for-watercool-mo-ra-3-420-pro-lt-18x140mm-vs-8x200mm/0_30
> 
> Thank you!


he already did... first post haha


----------



## KRAY-SLiCK

centrifugal computer fans what ever happen to those they run quiet and moves alot of high pressured air. I took out some from an old intel powered em up and pointed one at my video card and saw the temps fall rapidly.


----------



## AlienPrime173

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KRAY-SLiCK*
> 
> centrifugal computer fans what ever happen to those they run quiet and moves alot of high pressured air. I took out some from an old intel powered em up and pointed one at my video card and saw the temps fall rapidly.


the blower type ones? I have one, it's made by Panasonic haha


----------



## KRAY-SLiCK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlienPrime173*
> 
> the blower type ones? I have one, it's made by Panasonic haha


dude i wish they started making thoes kinds of fans popular.. btw haha ive got a 24v .. it blows away my cpu temps if powered it up and pointed it at the mobo..


----------



## Starbomba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KRAY-SLiCK*
> 
> centrifugal computer fans what ever happen to those they run quiet and moves alot of high pressured air. I took out some from an old intel powered em up and pointed one at my video card and saw the temps fall rapidly.


I have a Nidec A34124-58 (12v, 25 CFM, 3800 RPM), and it sounds like a leaf blower, at least compared to the noisiest (compared to GT's) fan i own (Panaflo FBA12G12H, 12v, 2500 RPM, 103.8 CFM).

Might not be comparing apples to apples, but it's what i have









The Nidec fan was dead useful on the 1U racks at work where i cannibalized it from then they were discarded, but on a normal PC, i see little to no use.


----------



## NFL

Recommended fan for pull on an H100i GTX? Only request is that it needs to have a black housing


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NFL*
> 
> Recommended fan for pull on an H100i GTX? Only request is that it needs to have a black housing


For the best balance of noise to flow in black, my picks are:

1. Darkside GT PWM 1850rpm

2. Darkside GT 2150 rpm 3 pin model.

Or for more noise and a tiny improvement in temps, the Noctua F12 3000rpm industrial edition.

For me, the diminishing returns on temps of a 120mm fan spinning above 2000rpm aren't worth the 3-10X increase in noise.


----------



## AlienPrime173

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> For the best balance of noise to flow in black, my picks are:
> 
> 1. Darkside GT PWM 1850rpm
> 
> 2. Darkside GT 2150 rpm 3 pin model.
> 
> Or for more noise and a tiny improvement in temps, the Noctua F12 3000rpm industrial edition.
> 
> For me, the diminishing returns on temps of a 120mm fan spinning above 2000rpm aren't worth the 3-10X increase in noise.


Bought some.. $25 each. Holy crap. Amazing. Made by Nidec.. best beating i have ever seen in a fan. I turn the system of and they spin and spin and spin


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlienPrime173*
> 
> Bought some.. $25 each. Holy crap. Amazing. Made by Nidec.. best beating i have ever seen in a fan. I turn the system of and they spin and spin and spin


I hate to burst your bubble, but they work better if system is running.


----------



## AlienPrime173

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I hate to burst your bubble, but they work better if system is running.


LOL! I was leaning towards that direction! LOL!


----------



## MrKoala

Sounds funny, but I've had the same experience before. The first time I got my hands on some well made cooling fans (those were a few old Delta server fans IIRC), I connected one to a PWM controller and played with it for a bit. Then I turned off the output channel it was connected to. After a while I though there was something wrong with my controller's switch because the fan was still spinning. Eventually the fan stopped and I realized it was just too smooth to stop within the time I'm used to.


----------



## AlienPrime173

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrKoala*
> 
> Sounds funny, but I've had the same experience before. The first time I got my hands on some well made cooling fans (those were a few old Delta server fans IIRC), I connected one to a PWM controller and played with it for a bit. Then I turned off the output channel it was connected to. After a while I though there was something wrong with my controller's switch because the fan was still spinning. Eventually the fan stopped and I realized it was just too smooth to stop within the time I'm used to.


yes! I tested it, at full speed, it takes 23.580 seconds to come to a complete stop! Like unREAL! Most fans come to a stop in under 10 seconds! (even 2600rpm koolance HBK fans)

I was puzzled at first hahaha


----------



## epic1337

good bearings, good balance and good aero dynamic design, imho an ideal rotating device would never stop even without input power, but thats impossible.








though anyway, if the fan stops in a very short period, then theres something wrong with it.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> good bearings, good balance and good aero dynamic design, imho an ideal rotating device would never stop even without input power, but thats impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> though anyway, if the fan stops in a very short period, then theres something wrong with it.


My fans stop short of asking me for autographs. heiehieheuheuheuheu.


----------



## doyll

A motor's magnetic fields can (and do) stop some motors much faster than others, fans included.


----------



## epic1337

depends on the motor design, a dynamo motor can run nearly indefinitely if given the right circumstances.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage


----------



## doyll

True, but a fan has the resistance of it's blades moving in the air to slow it's movement.

I was referring to the magnetic attractions inside the fan motor and how they sometimes stop and hold the fan's position. Lightly push / move blade and it returns to original position.


----------



## AlienPrime173

these are all the fans i own (except GT AP-60 and xigmatek XAF) those are in my system.. and by far the AP-60's out perform every fan. more than double the power off spin time haha


----------



## Cyclops

I've got about 20 fans that I've tested. Only thing remaining is to measure their noise output and I can't bring myself to do it. Gotta shutdown the main computer, the server, the lights, the air conditioning, etc.

Am I too lazy? I get super bored when I don't have a few things to do at the same time.


----------



## MicroCat

Maybe go Glenn Gould dB meter and hum along with the fans, then report back that, curiously, all 20 fans were 48dB. Altho if you're really bored could skip the boring meter reading and just make the report.


----------



## Cyclops

Heh, without the dB measurements, the data is worthless







.


----------



## Cyclops

Here's a teaser:



Data is incomplete.

* Pulls hair out *


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Heh, without the dB measurements, the data is worthless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Worthless? Or enigmatic? Everyone loves a good mystery.


----------



## doyll

I hear you Cyclops.
I suppose even this is too much background noise?









But I really do understand what a pain it is to monitor noise levels in 'normal' environments. We need a small quick assembly acoustic chamber. Something about a1.3 meter square inside so sensor can be 1m from fan. Problem is to have that much room inside would mean almost 2 meter outside measurements.


----------



## MicroCat

Small and simple noise (and radiation) isolating chamber? Just get one of these:


Lead-lined version, of course. Oh and stuffed with 100 cubic meters of rock wool.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Small and simple noise (and radiation) isolating chamber? Just get one of these:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lead-lined version, of course. Oh and stuffed with 100 cubic meters of rock wool.


its actually possible to DIY.

doublewall cardboard/plywood + eggbox foam + hot-glue


----------



## MrKoala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've got about 20 fans that I've tested. Only thing remaining is to measure their noise output and I can't bring myself to do it. Gotta shutdown the main computer, the server, *the lights*, the air conditioning, etc.
> 
> Am I too lazy? I get super bored when I don't have a few things to do at the same time.


You got noisy lights at home?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrKoala*
> 
> You got noisy lights at home?


Old house. Some fluorescent lights are in use. I can hear their faint hum when the room is quiet.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Old house. Some fluorescent lights are in use. I can hear their faint hum when the room is quiet.


If you use one of those specialty tools, like a hammer and hit the tube really hard, does that stop the buzzing? ;-)

Fluorescent lights with old wiring are pure auditory evil. Replace the fixtures or turn off the circuit at the breaker box. Unless it's a proper old house, then it would be the fuse box.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> If you use one of those specialty tools, like a hammer and hit the tube really hard, does that stop the buzzing? ;-)
> 
> Fluorescent lights with old wiring are pure auditory evil. Replace the fixtures or turn off the circuit at the breaker box. Unless it's a proper old house, then it would be the fuse box.


Yeah, but then it will probably go 'snap, crackle, pop!'
'Proper' old house often have pennies under the screw in fuses.


----------



## marn3us

Hey guys, my Hyper 212 EVO fan's bearings just failed badly and I have to replace the fan.

What is the best 120mm fan in terms of cooling/noise that you suggest me to buy for the 212Evo?

I was maybe considering the EK Vardar and the NF-F12 but if you have better (and cheaper) suggestions they are very welcome


----------



## lucasj1974

I don't think you could go wrong with the Noctua's if you don't mind the color scheme.....


----------



## iakoboss7

i think everyone is forgetting how good the arctic f12 pwm is at push...

the rev.2 that is on the market now is even quieter than the one that is benchmarked here.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iakoboss7*
> 
> i think everyone is forgetting how good the arctic f12 pwm is at push...
> 
> the rev.2 that is on the market now is even quieter than the one that is benchmarked here.


Not at all. The Arctic F12 PWM is a decent fan. Their quality control is rather hit and miss, but for a very low cost fan they are very good. I've used many of them over the years, especially the Arctic F12 TC when I needed temperature to rpm control.


----------



## miklkit

Three versions of the F12 were benchmarked and only one is really good. I like it because it is good at pulling air past a foam filter.


----------



## iakoboss7

the f12 pwm is the best one, as you can see its seventh in PUSH at noise to temp rating!

this fan has an updated revision (its called f12 pwm rev.2) that produces the same ammount of air but its quieter! (so it would probably put it at the top 3 push fans)

the reason i mention this again is cause its very cheap!!! in europe you can get it for 5euros and has 5 years warranty! its a VFM...

but for PULL you must find something else cause its not good!


----------



## baii

The artic is pretty good value, especially if you buy the value pack.

But they advtised as fdb, I read a tear apart and it say it is just a better sealed sleeve bearing, instead of true sony fdb in adda sense.
Obviously fdb is pretty vague marketing term nowadays.


----------



## Cyclops

Splitting hairs.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baii*
> 
> The artic is pretty good value, especially if you buy the value pack.
> 
> But they advtised as fdb, I read a tear apart and it say it is just a better sealed sleeve bearing, instead of true sony fdb in adda sense.
> Obviously fdb is pretty vague marketing term nowadays.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Splitting hairs.


What Cyclops said.









For all intent and purpose, we have 2 kinds of bearing fans. Ball and Sleeve. It doesn't matter what fan companies put name them they are still sleeve bearings. Fluid bearings are basically just sophisticated sleeve bearings with slightly different ways of using the lubricant in the space between the bearing sleeve and shaft. The lubricant between the shaft and sleeve is what they are referring to when the call these bearings 'Fluid Dynamic Bearing". But almost all sleeve bearings require lubricant too. After all, lubrication is what keeps bearings from getting noisy and seizing .. even ball bearings.









Bottom line is the quality of bearing is far more important than what kind of bearing, not ball or sleeve. Poor quality ball bearings will fail before good quality sleeve bearings. Yes, a good ball bearing has a longer life expectancy, but we are talking 80,000 to 95,000 hours @ 25c, or 52,000 to 75,000 hours @ 40c. That is almost 6 years of use without ever being turned off. How many of us will be using the fans we buy now for that many years?


----------



## iBruce

Well Hello!


----------



## baii

I am not so concern about life span, but at low rpm, but some bearing can make noise that dominate the sound profile.


----------



## marn3us

What do you guys think of EK Vardar 120mm fans?

I'll be using two as front intakes on a Bitfenix Prodigy white (no mesh so EXTREMELY restrictive)... Is there any fan better suited for that role (with same or lower amount of noise)?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> What do you guys think of EK Vardar 120mm fans?
> 
> I'll be using two as front intakes on a Bitfenix Prodigy white (no mesh so EXTREMELY restrictive)... Is there any fan better suited for that role (with same or lower amount of noise)?


Only GTs would be comparable, ime. I have a few of the 120 Vardars and the Darkside PWM GTs - the GTs are a little quieter and smoother than the F4s. Both the Vardars and GTs are great, wouldn't swap them out unless there's an aesthetic concern for concealed intake fans..hmmm...

Which Vardar model do you have installed? They're among the best 120mm fans for noise-to-flow, especially in a restricted flow placement. My only complaint is the QA isn't as good as GTs. Had one Vardar with an odd bearing noise, but all the others have been solid.

Check the first page of this thread to view the test results of the Vardar F4 and the GTs.


----------



## marn3us

Quick question for you guys: is it better to have 1x Silverstone AP-181 (180mm) or 2x EK Vardar F2-120 as front intakes on my Bitfenix Prodigy?

Please bear in mind that I have the white version so no mesh = HUGE restriction.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Quick question for you guys: is it better to have 1x Silverstone AP-181 (180mm) or 2x EK Vardar F2-120 as front intakes on my Bitfenix Prodigy?
> 
> Please bear in mind that I have the white version so no mesh = HUGE restriction.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


while large fans are able to move quite a bit of air at a relatively low noise level, they tend to struggle with restriction. So I would say 2x vardar rather than a single AP-181.


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Quick question for you guys: is it better to have 1x Silverstone AP-181 (180mm) or 2x EK Vardar F2-120 as front intakes on my Bitfenix Prodigy?
> 
> Please bear in mind that I have the white version so no mesh = HUGE restriction.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> while large fans are able to move quite a bit of air at a relatively low noise level, they tend to struggle with restriction. So I would say 2x vardar rather than a single AP-181.


Normally, I would agree with you. However, the Silverstone 180mm are an exception to the rule - the AP181 and (especially) AP182 are brutes. The AP181 will distinctly move more air in that application.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ciarlatano*
> 
> Normally, I would agree with you. However, the Silverstone 180mm are an exception to the rule - the AP181 and (especially) AP182 are brutes. The AP181 will distinctly move more air in that application.


Thanks a lot for your input!









Last question: will the AP-181 (182 is too extreme for me) move more air than the vardars while *also* being quieter? Because right now I have two vardars there and they are dead-silent (especially when pc is idle and they spin at 500rpm).

Silence in idle (and quiet operation in general) is fundamental since this is my office and working rig and I have it on my desk very close to me

Thanks again!









EDIT: I've read about cheap bearings on the AP181 so I'd be going for the AP182... Will it be quiet enough at lowest fan speed (~520rpm)?


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Thanks a lot for your input!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last question: will the AP-181 (182 is too extreme for me) move more air than the vardars while *also* being quieter? Because right now I have two vardars there and they are dead-silent (especially when pc is idle and they spin at 500rpm).
> 
> Silence in idle (and quiet operation in general) is fundamental since this is my office and working rig and I have it on my desk very close to me
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I've read about cheap bearings on the AP181 so I'd be going for the AP182... Will it be quiet enough at lowest fan speed (~520rpm)?


The AP-182 is quiet at low speeds, but it gets noisy. Keep in mind that it moves massive amounts of air. I really couldn't give you a noise comparison at like airflows, as I'm not currently using one and my memory of its midrange noise levels is vague.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ciarlatano*
> 
> The AP-182 is quiet at low speeds, but it gets noisy. Keep in mind that it moves massive amounts of air. I really couldn't give you a noise comparison at like airflows, as I'm not currently using one and my memory of its midrange noise levels is vague.


Don't worry about midrange noise, I rarely play games on this pc and whrn I do I have headphones.

What I need to know is whether the AP182 can become dead silent or not at minimum speed for when I'm working









Thanks!


----------



## Loladinas

I have an AP181 in my case and yes, it can be turned down low enough to become inaudible. Also, once started, it can be turned down below its rated 600RPM. At least my specific sample. My situation, however, is somewhat different from yours because instead of a solid panel I have a fine mesh in front of it. I suppose YMMV. Not sure about the quality of the bearing - I've had it running for nearly 3 years now and there aren't any weird noises, but this isn't the fan I got with my case when I bought it. The bundled fan died barely a week into it's use and I had to RMA it.


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Don't worry about midrange noise, I rarely play games on this pc and whrn I do I have headphones.
> 
> What I need to know is whether the AP182 can become dead silent or not at minimum speed for when I'm working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, at it's minimum speeds it is incredibly quiet.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ciarlatano*
> 
> Yes, at it's minimum speeds it is incredibly quiet.


Thanks, order just placed!!









I will let you know how I like it and thanks for your help guys!


----------



## hhuey5

Question about anti-vibration screws n gaskets

Do they make a difference?
Fans or AIO coolers are still gonna be noisy?
When to use screws (4=> 1.68-1.9) vs gaskets(ebay 1.80 ea)?
almost the same price sometimes


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hhuey5*
> 
> Question about anti-vibration screws n gaskets
> 
> Do they make a difference?
> Fans or AIO coolers are still gonna be noisy?
> When to use screws (4=> 1.68-1.9) vs gaskets(ebay 1.80 ea)?
> almost the same price sometimes



Yes, they make a difference.
Don't understand question. It's not an 'all or nothing' thing. If by AIO you are taking about CLC, the radiators used mean they will almost always be noisy.
Screws and gaskets are different things. Gaskets do not hold a fan in place, they seal the fan to the case or radiator. the screws hold the fan to the case or radiator.
Don't understand statement


----------



## hhuey5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> Yes, they make a difference.
> Don't understand question. It's not an 'all or nothing' thing. If by AIO you are taking about CLC, the radiators used mean they will almost always be noisy.
> Screws and gaskets are different things. Gaskets do not hold a fan in place, they seal the fan to the case or radiator. the screws hold the fan to the case or radiator.
> Don't understand statement


you don't expect the screws to hold the weight of clc so u have to use a gasket for fans\clc

how much noise reduction does screws\gaskets provide => 1 db reduction?

since the price 4 screws is about the same as a gasket why not install a gasket?


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hhuey5*
> 
> you don't expect the screws to hold the weight of clc so u have to use a gasket for fans\clc
> 
> how much noise reduction does screws\gaskets provide => 1 db reduction?
> 
> since the price 4 screws is about the same as a gasket why not install a gasket?


I am totally and completely lost with what you are trying to say and/or ask in these last two posts...... Are you saying you want to use a gasket _instead_ of screws? Gaskets are made to be used in _addition_ to screws to stop vibration transfers in certain circumstances. The gasket isn't going to hold your CLC up by itself.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hhuey5*
> 
> you don't expect the screws to hold the weight of clc so u have to use a gasket for fans\clc
> 
> how much noise reduction does screws\gaskets provide => 1 db reduction?
> 
> since the price 4 screws is about the same as a gasket why not install a gasket?


ciarlatano covered most of it.

The rubber pop in 'screw's are really vibration dampeners. They pop into the fan and the case / radiator and the rubber between them absorbs the fan's vibration.

Gaskets are used between the fan and case / radiator to seal up any gap between them and stop air from leaking between them. Stopping these air leaks often helps lower noise levels because less leak means less air noise. This can also help absorb vibration.

Screws secure things together

Gaskets stop leaks.


----------



## hhuey5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ciarlatano*
> 
> I am totally and completely lost with what you are trying to say and/or ask in these last two posts...... Are you saying you want to use a gasket _instead_ of screws? Gaskets are made to be used in _addition_ to screws to stop vibration transfers in certain circumstances. The gasket isn't going to hold your CLC up by itself.


so u expect rubber anti-vib *screws* to hold up the weight of clc+fans
those kind of screws being discussed


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hhuey5*
> 
> so u expect rubber anti-vib *screws* to hold up the weight of clc+fans
> those kind of screws being discussed


But how can you attach a rubber screw to a radiator??

Either you've never seen a radiator or a rubber screw (or both) because rads have threaded holes and rubber screws are fat and not threaded.

Rubber screws can be used to attach fans to a case, nothing more than that. For rads you need screws of appropriate size and length


----------



## hhuey5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> But how can you attach a rubber screw to a radiator??
> 
> Either you've never seen a radiator or a rubber screw (or both) because rads have threaded holes and rubber screws are fat and not threaded.
> 
> Rubber screws can be used to attach fans to a case, nothing more than that. For rads you need screws of appropriate size and length


then this is where u suggest using gaskets or not


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> But how can you attach a rubber screw to a radiator??
> 
> Either you've never seen a radiator or a rubber screw (or both) because rads have threaded holes and rubber screws are fat and not threaded.
> 
> Rubber screws can be used to attach fans to a case, nothing more than that. For rads you need screws of appropriate size and length


fan goes between the rad and the case, the rubber screw secures to the fan, a case-fan-rad setup.

fans have 4holes, you can place 2screws for the rad, and the other 2screws for the rubber screw that would secure it to the case.
in total, on a dual-fan rad you'd have 4rubber screws securing it on the case.
although such a way wouldn't be ideal, the strength of only 4 rubber screws is just too low, you risk the rad falling off the case.

i would rather use rubber washers and a rubber spacer between the case-fan-rad setup, making the entire thing more secure and even better performing.
basically the setup would be a "long screw | rubber washer | case | rubber spacer/gasket | fan | radiator".


----------



## RnRollie

^^^this

and to take a step further... some fans that make a name for themselves as being silent -like Noiseblocker also include some rubber "sleeves", which go around the screw/bolt and fit through the holes in the fan/case. Thus even further isolating the screw from the case/fan and reducing vibration/noise

They come both in short & long versions

Difficult to explain.. just look at the picture


----------



## doyll

One of the best ways I've seen and used is with old fashion wiring grommets.


The case usually needs the hole drilled out so grommet will fit. Drill hole big enough so grommet is a nice loose fit. This way when screw snugs up it does not force the rubber hard against the edges of hole.

Also solves the problem of blind mounting of screw through a rubber wash without it touching the case. A vibration mount only works if it separates the vibrating object (fan) from what it's mounted on. If any part of fan or it's mounting hardware touches what it is being mounted to, the vibration is transmitted through this contact.

Additionally, the screw must not be tightened into fan too tight or the 'vibration mount' is compressed, becomes more dense and transmits the vibration.


----------



## RnRollie

+1 for doyll


----------



## epic1337

speaking of grommets and "gaskets", has anyone tested how much of a dBa decrease would one get when using it?
its an interesting stand-point for noise-to-performance ratio.

also, how far does the thickness of these rubber stuffings affect their performance? the "gaskets" in particular varies from 1mm to 3mm in thickness.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> speaking of grommets and "gaskets", has anyone tested how much of a dBa decrease would one get when using it?
> its an interesting stand-point for noise-to-performance ratio.
> 
> also, how far does the thickness of these rubber stuffings affect their performance? the "gaskets" in particular varies from 1mm to 3mm in thickness.


Good questions









Vibration dampening grommetts have the most impact depending on the quality of the case... some of teh really cheap cases are using steel rolled so thin they flap in the wind like a flag... the only thing those cases are good at is vibration sound amplification... there the grommets & gaskets might have the most impact









As far as i know, to make a real difference you aught to look a 7mm (uncompressed foam / 3-5mm silicon) gaskets

if there is anyone that might have gone into the depths of it.. it might be http://www.silentpcreview.com/


----------



## doyll

Using a wiring grommet is what Fractal Design did years ago for HDD mounting. As long as screws are just barely snugged up they work quite well. Obviously the density of rubber / silicone / etc. and size / thickness of isolation the grommet provides makes a difference, but it seems the composition and density required that makes one good for wiring makes it acceptable for vibration.

I cannot give you specific data for many reasons, namely I have not tried to record the noise level differences. But also because the screw tightness, thickness of case, grommet composition, etc. all effect the outcome.

As an educated guess, softer / less dense grommet is better .. as is thicker (within reason).. We can easily tighten screw a little more to increase density, but we cannot make the grommet / bushing softer .. maybe if we soak them in brake fluid, but then they will probably end up falling apart.









Edit:
As @RnRollie said, case material is critical. Something that does help them is very high density composite rubber matting glued into center of panel. This is common in automobile panels, like door skins. They have a 3-5mm thick square aobut 80-120cm square glued to them. I have used self adhering roof flashing for same purpose.

The use of gaskets makes vibration dampening much harder. The bigger then area of contact between fan and case, the softer the material needs to be to absorb the vibration.


----------



## epic1337

hell, we might find a wooping discovery among the noisy fans, that is to say they become impossibly quiet when paired with rubber grommet or spacers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The use of gaskets makes vibration dampening much harder. The bigger then area of contact between fan and case, the softer the material needs to be to absorb the vibration.


i have some success with the 2.5mm ones, they also improved the airflow, possibly because theres a bit more space between the fan blades and the case's surface.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> hell, we might find a wooping discovery among the noisy fans, that is to say they become impossibly quiet when paired with rubber grommet or spacers.
> i have some success with the 2.5mm ones, they also improved the airflow, possibly because theres a bit more space between the fan blades and the case's surface.


I have notice a big difference in noise when there is 15+mm between fan and vent, HDD cage, whatever. Bottom intakes on stock feet (17-19mm spacing to desk/floor) spaced up on 25mm blocks makes a big difference in both noise and airflow too .. which is why all my systems end up on open bottom castor bases.


----------



## RnRollie

This is why you see the (rear) fan vent/grille "sticking-out" on the better cases, compared to just a "flat" perforated area








And the best results are of course to get the tin-snips or dremel and get rid of those perforated case grilles completely..... and optionally put the traditional old-school wire grille in place











btw: somebody tested this.. and the result is that the classic wire grille has the least restriction and adds teh least noise.... so those engineers way back in the 70's-80's knew what they were doing


----------



## doyll

I always thought the different levels of metal on back of case were mostly done to increase the rigidity of panel. But I do see how spacing the grill out does both.







.


----------



## Octavialicious

Just wanted to share the S12A-ULN is not viable at all imo for watercooling. I adore the fan because it's the quietest I know of (and the tests show it) but even 840mm of radiator space and 7 of them could not keep my loop cool enough (FX-8350 @5GHz, 980Ti)

On the contrary, with only 3 P12's and the 4 other fan slots blank on my radiator, my CPU dropped from 80C (and shut down) to 60! And the P12 at 500 RPM is still very quiet too. (but this should be no surprise, P12 are the highest noise to performance fans on the chart) So good results OP!

Thanks for making this


----------



## Cyclops

Yeah, P12's are still my favorite 120mm fans.


----------



## 5parcu

Wow ! Such a complete review for fans ! Great job there







I can make use of this for my future fans







Thank you !


----------



## turboman

Have look at this 140mm fan test:
http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/6584/7/71-casefans-van-140mm-getest-round-up-grote-fans-testresultaten-de-meest-efficientie-casefans
The review is in Dutch though, but we can read the graphs. It is rare to see such an extensive comparative test these days.

Reference is also made to a 120mm fan test one year ago, and here is the link:
http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/5768/7/103-12cm-casefans-review-koel-systeem-gelukkig-systeem-testresultaten-de-meest-efficientie-casefans


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turboman*
> 
> Have look at this 140mm fan test:
> http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/6584/7/71-casefans-van-140mm-getest-round-up-grote-fans-testresultaten-de-meest-efficientie-casefans
> The review is in Dutch though, but we can read the graphs. It is rare to see such an extensive comparative test these days.
> 
> Reference is also made to a 120mm fan test one year ago, and here is the link:
> http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/5768/7/103-12cm-casefans-review-koel-systeem-gelukkig-systeem-testresultaten-de-meest-efficientie-casefans


While their testing is undoubtedly useful, I have two gripes with it. One - they did not test them against a radiator, only against a wire grill on the intake side; two - they measure airflow at 30dBA, then put fans that run under 30dBA at their full speed, thus invalidating the results for those fans.

EDIT: Actually never mind that, while they don't present the data in a single graph, you can sort of put it together from all the different graphs. The only thing I don't agree with, is them choosing 30dBA and stating that it's inaudible. Maybe my computer room is unusually quiet or maybe it's my hearing, but I can definitely hear Scythe Slipstream 800rpm, sitting a meter away from the case (they're testing at 10cm), and they're definitely below 30dBA.


----------



## RnRollie

Its all a bit moot anyways... there is absolutely no reason to buy "case-fans"
The only place where a "Case-Fan" might be able to get to its full potential is as an UNFiltered , UnObstructed Exhaust Fan..... and how many of these UnFiltered, UnObstructed Fan Mountings do we have on our cases?

ONE , maybe TWO at the rear

Any other position is either filtered or obstructed (eg drive bays) and most "case-fans" just lack the ooomph to overcome that. So either:
-run unfiltered (dust galore)
-run high(er)-speed (noise!!!)
-run a "hot" case (lower/normal speed, but choked on air intake)
-run "radiator-fans", these ARE made to have enough Static Pressure to overcome the choking of the filters/grilles/drivebays/etc

OR
-run "industrial" fans like Delta, SanAce, NMB, etc ... even when tuned back to acceptable noise levels, they still outperform (flow, SP) most if not all "case" fans.

$ 0,02

.


----------



## marn3us

Wow, @ciarlatano was definitely right... AP182 is a real brute!!

At full speed that thing is so crazy it almost moved my case









At minimum rpm it's a bit louder than I would have liked though, but it definitely pushes way more air than the 2x Vardars at 500rpm I had previously (for a very small increase in noise)


----------



## M3TAl

What are some beastly 120m+ 25mm thick pure airflow/exhaust fans? Either PWM/voltage should work as they will be connected to a Corsair Commander Mini. Thinking of switching one of the rads from 240mm to 480mm and running both rads as intake. Let two exhaust fans in the rear get the heat out.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Wow, @ciarlatano was definitely right... AP182 is a real brute!!
> 
> At full speed that thing is so crazy it almost moved my case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At minimum rpm it's a bit louder than I would have liked though, but it definitely pushes way more air than the 2x Vardars at 500rpm I had previously (for a very small increase in noise)


I don't think there should be any noise at all. Depending on how you set it up, it should go down as low as 200RPM.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I don't think there should be any noise at all. Depending on how you set it up, it should go down as low as 200RPM.


I am using the fan controller that came with the AP182 and according to Thermalbench's excellent review (and Silverstone's specs) the minimum rpm is around 500.

Are you sure your AP182 is really going all the way down to 200rpm? I've never seen a fan going so slow...

Anyways, the noise at min rpm is still quiet (most will say indaudible) but I have really good hearing and the double-ball-bearings noise bothers me a bit when the room is completely silent.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I am using the fan controller that came with the AP182 and according to Thermalbench's excellent review (and Silverstone's specs) the minimum rpm is around 500.
> 
> Are you sure your AP182 is really going all the way down to 200rpm? I've never seen a fan going so slow...
> 
> Anyways, the noise at min rpm is still quiet (most will say indaudible) but I have really good hearing and the double-ball-bearings noise bothers me a bit when the room is completely silent.


I can't be a hundred percent sure since I don't have the fan myself (although I am considering buying one just for fun, if I can find it in stock anywhere...), but I do have an older version of AP181. It's rated 700RPM, but goes down to something like 300-400. Also there's this - http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67710


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I am using the fan controller that came with the AP182 and according to Thermalbench's excellent review (and Silverstone's specs) the minimum rpm is around 500.
> 
> Are you sure your AP182 is really going all the way down to 200rpm? I've never seen a fan going so slow...
> 
> Anyways, the noise at min rpm is still quiet (most will say indaudible) but I have really good hearing and the double-ball-bearings noise bothers me a bit when the room is completely silent.


As below, that is with fan power (voltage) dropped way down to minimum operating level .. or below?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I can't be a hundred percent sure since I don't have the fan myself (although I am considering buying one just for fun, if I can find it in stock anywhere...), but I do have an older version of AP181. It's rated 700RPM, but goes down to something like 300-400. Also there's this - http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=67710


SPCR data looks like 50% power (6 volt?) and 0% PWM on SST-AP182 (2000rpm) fan .. and when running on 50% power it's maximum speed is only 500rpm. They also say they had trouble with fan starting at 50% power.


----------



## Cyclops

Starting voltage for a fan can often be higher than the voltage required to run the fan at minimum RPM.


----------



## Stige

Still can't go wrong with Gentle Typhoons, just amazing fans and cheap when bought second hand. Don't understand why people sell these!


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Starting voltage for a fan can often be higher than the voltage required to run the fan at minimum RPM.


theres a trick to bypass this, by using an inductor-capacitor low-pass filter, the trick to it is using a center-tap inductor.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Starting voltage for a fan can often be higher than the voltage required to run the fan at minimum RPM.


Indeed. In case of my AP181, if you try to start it from cold boot you get that lovely nails-on-a-chalkboard sound until you reach 9V or so, but you can turn it down after.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> theres a trick to bypass this, by using an inductor-capacitor low-pass filter, the trick to it is using a center-tap inductor.


Could you post a diagram and component list for us laymen to use to get parts and make this 'starter'? I'll put in my info thread, so peeps and see it there too.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Could you post a diagram and component list for us laymen to use to get parts and make this 'starter'? I'll put in my info thread, so peeps and see it there too.


sure.




basically this uses the back-EMF of the inductor during it's "charging phase", making the total voltage on the V output much higher than the input.


----------



## doyll

Could you do that with fan plug on input side and fan on output? That way us bonehead laymen can understand how to make it.








Also cap size / rating / part number would be helpful.

I'm assuming this would similar to starter caps on AC motors on table saw, drill press, or whatever .. adds power to get motor started when power is first sensed when switch is turned on, then re-charges until next time.


----------



## RnRollie

not only that, if you solder in a "large" elco + a diode and a male and a female fan header/connector and shrink wrap it, you can make a nice little gizmo that not only reduces the start-up peak, but also allows your fans to keep running for a few seconds after you've cut the power.

.Not sure how it would deal with voltage fan controllers though


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I am using the fan controller that came with the AP182 and according to Thermalbench's excellent review (and Silverstone's specs) the minimum rpm is around 500.
> 
> Are you sure your AP182 is really going all the way down to 200rpm? I've never seen a fan going so slow...
> 
> Anyways, the noise at min rpm is still quiet (most will say indaudible) but I have really good hearing and the double-ball-bearings noise bothers me a bit when the room is completely silent.


Yup, it can go as low as that.

Also for example, the NF-A14 PWM I have, on PWM control it's speed can dip well below 200rpm.
At 11% it's RPM was 175. At 10% or 9% the speed was too low for the motherboard, it just threw it's hands up. Aaand I was too lazy to bother checking with my multimeter...
But I did gather RPM data on it, in 1% increments, between 11% and 27%, and based on that 9%/10% should be somewhere in the ballpark of 137rpm/155rpm.
As for PWM signal between 0% and 8%, it didn't spin (duh) but as soon it was raised back to 9% it started spinning again.
It was rather interesting to look at the fan when it started spinning at that point (8%>9%). Incredibly nice and efficient motor.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> As below, that is with fan power (voltage) dropped way down to minimum operating level .. or below?
> SPCR data looks like 50% power (6 volt?) and 0% PWM on SST-AP182 (2000rpm) fan .. and when running on 50% power it's maximum speed is only 500rpm. They also say they had trouble with fan starting at 50% power.


I'm not sure I have got what you're meaning, but my AP182 was connected to a +12V from PSU and its own fan controller to minimum speed, so it should be 500rpm according to specs and reviews.

I haven't tried attaching the fan to the mobo since I fear that 1.8A starting current would fry my Z170i...


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Could you do that with fan plug on input side and fan on output? That way us bonehead laymen can understand how to make it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also cap size / rating / part number would be helpful.
> 
> I'm assuming this would similar to starter caps on AC motors on table saw, drill press, or whatever .. adds power to get motor started when power is first sensed when switch is turned on, then re-charges until next time.


err... i'm not sure how i could put this in words...

for a 5V input via molex adaptor, cut the 5v wire and the 12v wire, the 5v wire (PSU) goes to the V-in and the 12v wire (fan) goes to the V-out.
the capacitor goes straight to ground or the 0V black wire.

as for the values, the capacitor should be about 16v~25v 1000uf.
while the inductor... i'm not quite sure, the last time i did this i used a 3" wood screw and an 18AWG wire.
i wound it along the thread, filled it from head to tip, center-tapped, then wound it back towards the head, an almost 1:1 center-tap.


----------



## M3TAl

Any advice on an exhaust fan?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> What are some beastly 120m+ 25mm thick pure airflow/exhaust fans? Either PWM/voltage should work as they will be connected to a Corsair Commander Mini. Thinking of switching one of the rads from 240mm to 480mm and running both rads as intake. Let two exhaust fans in the rear get the heat out.


----------



## marn3us

Are all motherboard fan headers attached to a single circuit or has each header got its own 1A @ 12V one?

I mean, my mini-ITX mobo has 3 fan headers rated at 1A each so if the power delivery was common I would have a 36W circuit, meaning I could connect my 1.8A SST AP182 to the mobo (my other fans are .1A and .3A).

Thanks in advance


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Are all motherboard fan headers attached to a single circuit or has each header got its own 1A @ 12V one?
> 
> I mean, my mini-ITX mobo has 3 fan headers rated at 1A each so if the power delivery was common I would have a 36W circuit, meaning I could connect my 1.8A SST AP182 to the mobo (my other fans are .1A and .3A).
> 
> Thanks in advance


No!

1 amp each header means exactly what it says. Each header is it's own 1 amp circuit, even if all the traces connect to a common power and ground.
Plugging a 1.8 amp fan onto a header is trying torun 1.8 amps on a 1 amp header .. 0.8 amp more than header is rated to handle.


----------



## miklkit

Get yourself a molex to pwm adaptor and be happy with that fan.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> No!
> 
> 1 amp each header means exactly what it says. Each header is it's own 1 amp circuit, even if all the traces connect to a common power and ground.
> Plugging a 1.8 amp fan onto a header is trying torun 1.8 amps on a 1 amp header .. 0.8 amp more than header is rated to handle.


Thanks, that's the info I was looking for!

Still, there must be something wrong about it though, since numbers of people have run AP182 on 1A fan headers without issues


----------



## Stige

What kind of fan would take 1.8 amps? Even Gentle Typhoon AP-15 takes like 1W max, which is like way less than that.
Even my water pump runs fine from a fan part on my mobo, Phobya DC12-400.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> What kind of fan would take 1.8 amps? Even Gentle Typhoon AP-15 takes like 1W max, which is like way less than that.
> Even my water pump runs fine from a fan part on my mobo, Phobya DC12-400.


Some of the Delta fans I've tested can reach 4 amps.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Some of the Delta fans I've tested can reach 4 amps.


How can a fan take almost 50W??? :O


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> How can a fan take almost 50W??? :O


Takes a lot of power to go past 7000 RPM.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Takes a lot of power to go past 7000 RPM.


Well who would use that sort of thing









I mean, I don't care much about the noise that my PC makes but 7000 RPM? lol
I run GT AP-15 which a lot of people claim are "loud"


----------



## Cyclops

The molex wires got really hot when that fan was running.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> What kind of fan would take 1.8 amps? Even Gentle Typhoon AP-15 takes like 1W max, which is like way less than that.
> Even my water pump runs fine from a fan part on my mobo, Phobya DC12-400.


The SST AP182 draws 1.3A in normal operation and 1.8A startup spike.

When you put a Scythe GT next to the AP182 monster you realise how a fan can take 1.8A (or those Delta beasts)


----------



## doyll

The bigger the fan, the higher it's speed, the more airflow / resistance it can overcome all contribute to it needing a more powerful motor .. and more powerful motors use more power .. end result is hi amp rated fans.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Even my water pump runs fine from a fan part on my mobo, Phobya DC12-400.


Wait, do you have your DC12-400 powered via motherboard fan header?

Because I've got that pump as well (powered via 9V molex though) and I'm almost sure it is a 18W unit with 1.8A startup spike.

If you confirm your pump is running fine from your regular 1A mobo fan header, then my idea wasn't that wrong and I can power the AP182 which is 3W less from it


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Wait, do you have your DC12-400 powered via motherboard fan header?
> 
> Because I've got that pump as well (powered via 9V molex though) and I'm almost sure it is a 18W unit with 1.8A startup spike.
> 
> If you confirm your pump is running fine from your regular 1A mobo fan header, then my idea wasn't that wrong and I can power the AP182 which is 3W less from it


I don't know how much my fan headers are rated for but yes, it runs from them and I actually think I got a few fans on the same header aswell cause I use a splitter, too many fans lol
I will double check what exactly is running on that single header.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> I don't know how much my fan headers are rated for but yes, it runs from them and I actually think I got a few fans on the same header aswell cause I use a splitter, too many fans lol
> I will double check what exactly is running on that single header.


Thanks! What motherboard have you got?

Ps: are you sure you haven't got the DC12-400 *PWM* unit? Because that one is powered by the PSU and the cable attached to fan header only transmits PWM signal


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Thanks! What motherboard have you got?
> 
> Ps: are you sure you haven't got the DC12-400 *PWM* unit? Because that one is powered by the PSU and the cable attached to fan header only transmits PWM signal


I was just about to edit an update. The motherboard is Z77 OC Formula from AsRock like it says in my sig if you don't see it.

No, it's not the PWM unit I have, it gets the power from the fan header.

I was actually wrong but sort of right at the same time...
When I got my mobo back from warranty I actually put a molex splitter for fans on the back of the case so I didn't have to run a second splitter.
I used to run 2 splitters on 2 fan headers to power all my fans + water pump before but changed to this since last rebuild.

Right now I got 6x Gentle Typhoon AP-15 on a single fan header and the molex splitter runs the rest of the fans + water pump now. Few lowsy pics below.

The molex splitter/adapter


The blue wires are the splitter from the fan header.


EDIT: It seems GT AP-15 takes next to no power at all:


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Stige
> 
> Even my water pump runs fine from a fan part on my mobo, Phobya DC12-400.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, do you have your DC12-400 powered via motherboard fan header?
> 
> Because I've got that pump as well (powered via 9V molex though) and I'm almost sure it is a 18W unit with 1.8A startup spike.
> 
> If you confirm your pump is running fine from your regular 1A mobo fan header, then my idea wasn't that wrong and I can power the AP182 which is 3W less from it
Click to expand...

You are both crazy! Just because someone draws more power off of a header than it's rated for and it doesn't burn and short out in no way makes it safe .. anymore than someone crossing a bridge that's falling apart once or twice doesn't make the bridge safe to use.

Logic like yours leads me to believe if your brains were TNT .. and it went off, we wouldn't even know it .. not even enough to sound like a sneeze.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I'm not sure I've got it right: is your splitter powered via molex from the PSU?


More than likely this. Now you are thinking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I'm not sure I've got it right: is your splitter powered via molex from the PSU?


I take it back, TNT would do a lot of damage.


----------



## marn3us

I'm not sure I've got it right: is your splitter powered via molex from the PSU?


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> I'm not sure I've got it right: is your splitter powered via molex from the PSU?


I used to use two of those splitters and they are powered by a fan header. Then after the last rebuild when I had to send my mobo for warranty, I swapped the second splitter for that Molex plug to hide as much of the cables as I can from the front of the PC.

So: In my old setup, I had 2 splitters for all the fans and the water pump running from Fan headers.
New setup it's the molex fan header and 6 fans running from the splitter from a single fan header.

I think I made that sound confusing...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> I was just about to edit an update. The motherboard is Z77 OC Formula from AsRock like it says in my sig if you don't see it.
> 
> No, it's not the PWM unit I have, it gets the power from the fan header.
> 
> I was actually wrong but sort of right at the same time...
> When I got my mobo back from warranty I actually put a molex splitter for fans on the back of the case so I didn't have to run a second splitter.
> I used to run 2 splitters on 2 fan headers to power all my fans + water pump before but changed to this since last rebuild.
> 
> Right now I got 6x Gentle Typhoon AP-15 on a single fan header and the molex splitter runs the rest of the fans + water pump now. Few lowsy pics below.
> 
> The molex splitter/adapter
> 
> 
> The blue wires are the splitter from the fan header.
> 
> 
> EDIT: It seems GT AP-15 takes next to no power at all:


Your orignal statement was just plain wrong. No sort of right about it. You are not running your pump off of a motherboard header at all.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Your orignal statement was just plain wrong. No sort of right about it. You are not running your pump off of a motherboard header at all.


Not anymore, like I said.

it used to, I got one of those blue fan header splitters laying around that I used for it before I rebuilt and now I use that Molex thingy I now have there with the picture of it. It might be confusing but read it properly.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Not anymore, like I said.
> 
> it used to, I got one of those blue fan header splitters laying around that I used for it before I rebuilt and now I use that Molex thingy I now have there with the picture of it. It might be confusing but read it properly.


Not any more in your original post that said you were .. because you edited it.








Bottom line here is don't run more than 1 amp total load on a motherboard fan header unless you are willing to loose the use of that fan header .. and possible the motherboard.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Not any more in your original post that said you were .. because you edited it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line here is don't run more than 1 amp total load on a motherboard fan header unless you are willing to loose the use of that fan header .. and possible the motherboard.


Well I had no idea that they might have a limit back then, and I didn't when I rebuilt my PC and installed that Molex adapter for it, but I didn't have any issues back then for atleast 2 years, even with the pump on the mobo.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Well I had no idea that they might have a limit back then, and I didn't when I rebuilt my PC and installed that Molex adapter for it, but I didn't have any issues back then for atleast 2 years, even with the pump on the mobo.


I am not going to attach the AP182 to my mobo but still, lots of people on the internet have used for years more than 12W on a single channel without problems like you.

And since physics are not subjective, there HAS to be some sort of explanation... That's why i thought that a 6 headers mobo had a single 72W power circuit shared among the headers (much like some old fan controllers), but since Doyll told me I'm wrong now I'm really curious about the correct explanation


----------



## Loladinas

Picked up a little package at the post office today before work. Well I would've gotten them on 25th, but you know, holidays. Just look how magnificently ugly it is. It's amazing.


----------



## doyll

Look forward to seeing your opinion of them in use .. with your eyes closed of course.


----------



## marn3us

That is a serious match for Noctua in the "horror-fan" category









I hope you don't have a side-windowed case


----------



## Loladinas

Nah, my case is all very hush-hush. Lined with sound proofing material inside and all that. I'm still waiting for a thermometer with K type probes I ordered a little while ago, so I can do some testing with proper temperature logging. Should be here aaaaany day now







I also looked into buying an SPL meter, to prove to myself that there really is a difference in noise, and it's not just my imagination, but all the affordable ones start at 30dBA. That's kind of loud. Anyone got any advice on that?

I actually have a few Noctuas (2xB9 PWM, 2xF12 PWM, P12 and P14), and I don't really mind their colors. They're spinning quietly and keeping my rendering box cool. They might be ugly, but at least they don't have that neon glow.


----------



## doyll

I do wish they would make it in a black / white and/or black / black version.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Nah, my case is all very hush-hush. Lined with sound proofing material inside and all that. I'm still waiting for a thermometer with K type probes I ordered a little while ago, so I can do some testing with proper temperature logging. Should be here aaaaany day now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also looked into buying an SPL meter, to prove to myself that there really is a difference in noise, and it's not just my imagination, but all the affordable ones start at 30dBA. That's kind of loud. Anyone got any advice on that?
> 
> I actually have a few Noctuas (2xB9 PWM, 2xF12 PWM, P12 and P14), and I don't really mind their colors. They're spinning quietly and keeping my rendering box cool. They might be ugly, but at least they don't have that neon glow.


If you measure 35 dB at a distance of 20cm, it is the same as measuring 21.02 dB at 1 meter.

The calcuator is in this link
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/acoustic/isprob2.html


----------



## RnRollie

dont bother buying an expensive meter which can go as low as say 10 dBa... you only get frustrated and spending even more money on building a soundproofed "box" or room








Unless of course you've got access to a subterrean dungeon with 3-6 feet thick (concrete)walls and a 10 inch thick oak door...THEN you only have to line that dungeon with soundproofing like floating walls and echo suppressing/cancelling materials to keep environmental white noise out


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> Unless of course you've got access to a subterrean dungeon with 3-6 feet thick (concrete)walls


Curses! I have been found out! It's "out in the woods" as well. Seriously though, it echoes in there like a cave.

Anyway, I wouldn't throw away that much money on anything that would essentially be a toy for me. After checking out doylls link, it seems 30dBA would be aplenty. Even though I don't know what's the noise floor of my home (and it is very quiet) I think [email protected]/[email protected] would give me enough headroom. Any recommendations on a specific model or are they all really the same? http://www.amazon.com/MASTECH-MS6700-Range-Digital-Tester/dp/B00GD8DENS/


----------



## doyll

I got one much lower priced with USB interface to computer so I can keep a record and do graphs with simple software that came with it.

Wensn WS1361
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wensn-Digital-Sound-Level-Meter-Ws1361C-USB-30-130-DBA-/272168633938?hash=item3f5e83c652:g:XxYAAOSwr7ZW5Zxy

Only additional thing needed is a stand for it.
I use small camera tripods. One like this.
The extension legs help keep it balanced when turned to point up .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIGITAL-CAMERA-EXTENDABLE-MINI-TRIPOD-STAND-CAMERA-HOLDER-MOUNT-/181577065940?hash=item2a46d625d4:g:nnAAAOSw~1FUWMkK

Or like this. Not as versatile, but smaller
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pedco-UltraPod-Mini-Digital-Camera-Compact-Tripod-Lightweight-Blue-/141935962439?hash=item210c0ae947:g:E6cAAOSwr7ZW7-nV


----------



## solidshark91493

Okay so Im thoroughly confused. Im getting a AIO soon that Id like to swap the fans out on but I dont really know what to get.. Im looking for decently quiet but performance is preferred. 120mm Any opinions?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidshark91493*
> 
> Okay so Im thoroughly confused. Im getting a AIO soon that Id like to swap the fans out on but I dont really know what to get.. Im looking for decently quiet but performance is preferred. 120mm Any opinions?


You must be if you are looking at any AIO other than Swiftech or EK Predator.








All the rest are very poor quality, expensive, noisy, and only marginally dependable.
Many of us have tried and/or tested CLCs against air coolers. All that have open mind agree CLC are not as good. There have been many threads and posts about the shortcomings of CLC .. with few legitimate threads and posts in their support.
You might find "Why you should probably not buy a CLC cooler" thread of interest. http://www.overclock.net/t/1590547/why-you-should-probably-not-buy-a-clc-cooler/0_20


----------



## solidshark91493

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You must be if you are looking at any AIO other than Swiftech or EK Predator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the rest are very poor quality, expensive, noisy, and only marginally dependable.
> Many of us have tried and/or tested CLCs against air coolers. All that have open mind agree CLC are not as good. There have been many threads and posts about the shortcomings of CLC .. with few legitimate threads and posts in their support.
> You might find "Why you should probably not buy a CLC cooler" thread of interest. http://www.overclock.net/t/1590547/why-you-should-probably-not-buy-a-clc-cooler/0_20


I just ordered a swiftech H320 X2. If that helps.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidshark91493*
> 
> I just ordered a swiftech H320 X2. If that helps.


You are among the 'enlighten'.








May I ask why you did not get the Prestige version? I ask because it comes with better fans.


----------



## solidshark91493

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You are among the 'enlighten'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May I ask why you did not get the Prestige version? I ask because it comes with better fans.


Because it costs a lot more and I couldnt afford it atm, Im getting the fans later.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solidshark91493*
> 
> Because it costs a lot more and I couldnt afford it atm, Im getting the fans later.


Sorry but your logic evades me. You can't afford $50.00 more for cooler with fans that will cost at least $60 to replace with similar quality on $50.00 lower cost package?







.

$214.95 -164.95 = $50.00
3x fans of similar quality are easily $60.00 or more..

And the Prestige has nicer fittings too.

As for fan, I would suggest Gentle Typhoon 2150rpm PWM. Not easy to find, but very good fans.
EK Vardar may be good, but to date there have been many complaints, some with no clear resolution. Therefore I am reserving judgement on them. The GT fans made by Nidec Servo have been around for many many years and have a long reputation as being among the elite 'bests of the best'.


----------



## Loladinas

Got a bit of time to mess around with those TY-143 I got. I was kind of expecting them to be able to go below their rated 600rpm, but both of them only go as low as 600 and not 1 less. They perform great. One of them at 600rpm cools nearly as well as two Scythe Slipstreams at 800rpm, couple degrees difference. Keeps the VRM cooler as well. However I did run into a problem; when I put a TY-143 in the middle position on my NH-D14 I can hear loud clicking, that's non-existant when they spin in free air. I mean "loud" is subjective, since it's the only thing making noise in the room at the moment, I can hear it quite clearly. Kind of a bummer. Slipstreams would be completely inaudible undervolted, but they lacked power in the upper end. I also had to remove soundproofing from my side panel since it wouldn't close with it - that fan frame is huge. The plastic is also slightly thicker than usual, which makes using Noctua mounting kit a bit problematic, but nothing a couple of zipties couldn't fix.


Makes me wonder if I should just connect them to "chassis" fan headers instead of CPU and run my computer semi-fanless, since I'm so anal about noise.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> when I put a TY-143 in the middle position on my NH-D14 I can hear loud clicking, that's non-existant when they spin in free air.


Are you powering it in PWM or DC mode? I have a TY-147A that clicks loudly in PWM mode and doesn't click at all in DC mode. Some fans are just awful in PWM mode. I've moved all four of my chassis fans(2xNoctua, 1xPhanteks, 1xThermalright) onto motherboard headers in DC mode and it's made a huge difference in noise level. In my opinion PWM is a technology that needs more refinement. Maybe the fan manufacturers can smooth out the power pulses with capacitors. Those clicks are too annoying for my ears.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Makes me wonder if I should just connect them to "chassis" fan headers instead of CPU and run my computer semi-fanless, since I'm so anal about noise.


won't work well, you need to put a decent ultra-low RPM fan on the heatsink, since the airflow would just bypass the passive heatsinks through it's sides.

passive heatsinks only works because the spacing between the fins is wide enough to allow airflow with little to no pressure.


----------



## solidshark91493

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sorry but your logic evades me. You can't afford $50.00 more for cooler with fans that will cost at least $60 to replace with similar quality on $50.00 lower cost package?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> $214.95 -164.95 = $50.00
> 3x fans of similar quality are easily $60.00 or more..
> 
> And the Prestige has nicer fittings too.
> 
> As for fan, I would suggest Gentle Typhoon 2150rpm PWM. Not easy to find, but very good fans.
> EK Vardar may be good, but to date there have been many complaints, some with no clear resolution. Therefore I am reserving judgement on them. The GT fans made by Nidec Servo have been around for many many years and have a long reputation as being among the elite 'bests of the best'.


I didnt have the cash for that. Im buying the rest when I get paid next. Thats the plain reason. Im debating if I wanna replace the fittings too..


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Got a bit of time to mess around with those TY-143 I got. I was kind of expecting them to be able to go below their rated 600rpm, but both of them only go as low as 600 and not 1 less. They perform great. One of them at 600rpm cools nearly as well as two Scythe Slipstreams at 800rpm, couple degrees difference. Keeps the VRM cooler as well. However I did run into a problem; when I put a TY-143 in the middle position on my NH-D14 I can hear loud clicking, that's non-existant when they spin in free air. I mean "loud" is subjective, since it's the only thing making noise in the room at the moment, I can hear it quite clearly. Kind of a bummer. Slipstreams would be completely inaudible undervolted, but they lacked power in the upper end. I also had to remove soundproofing from my side panel since it wouldn't close with it - that fan frame is huge. The plastic is also slightly thicker than usual, which makes using Noctua mounting kit a bit problematic, but nothing a couple of zipties couldn't fix.
> 
> 
> Makes me wonder if I should just connect them to "chassis" fan headers instead of CPU and run my computer semi-fanless, since I'm so anal about noise.


These TY-143 were orginally rated 900-2500rpm, but have always idled down to 600rpm. A few of mine will idle slower, but when I was testing them at slower speeds it was with my aquaero 5 PWM controller and it will adjust down to 0%. Most motherboard do not go all the way down, even if the software you are using shows lower setting, they usually default to a base of about 20%, some not that low.

Zipties are like Velcro and duct tape. Always come in handy. Often replace old fashion use of wire.









The clicking I'm not sure how to deal with. I've had no problems with any of the TY-14x fans clicking in my systems. I have seen others have problems, with this on many different makes of PWM fans. It's not just the fan PWM system that can cause this problem but often is caused by motherboard PWM control. I"m not into electronics enough to be of much help.

Does it to it with both fans?

Could you try one on the back and one on the front? Maybe make a duct between finpack towers and just use fan on front and/or rear?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> Are you powering it in PWM or DC mode? I have a TY-147A that clicks loudly in PWM mode and doesn't click at all in DC mode. Some fans are just awful in PWM mode. I've moved all four of my chassis fans(2xNoctua, 1xPhanteks, 1xThermalright) onto motherboard headers in DC mode and it's made a huge difference in noise level. In my opinion PWM is a technology that needs more refinement. Maybe the fan manufacturers can smooth out the power pulses with capacitors. Those clicks are too annoying for my ears.


The clicking is most lkely the 12v power torquing the fan. As above, it can be caused by either fan or controller design .. and is often an incompatibility between the two being used.


----------



## Loladinas

My mobo won't let it set below 34% on the CPU header, which makes it run at 620-630RPM. Case headers supposedly let them go all the way down to 0, but they still bottom out at 600RPM. I guess I'm just spoiled by my AP181. Rated for 700RPM and 1200RPM in Lo-Hi modes, translates to 250-700RPM on low and 350-1200RPM range on high, without any startup issues. Last night I finally plugged it back into my motherboard instead of a rheostat and could check the speeds.

Yup, it happens with both fans, when I place them in the middle position. At first I thought I had a defective fan, but there's no clicking when I let them spin unobstructed. I suppose I'll try to run them in DC mode when I get the chance and see if it makes a difference, otherwise duct making time it is.

What are the downsides of running a PWM fan in DC mode? Obviously I haven't looked into it too much, but on DC they're supposed to not be able to slow down as much as on PWM and stall when voltage gets too low? I did have one fan briefly on DC when I was configuring Q-fan, and it still took it through the entire 600-2500RPM range, so that kind of left me puzzled. Bonus point for DC mode is being able to bring a fan to a complete stop, below a certain temperature threshold.

I've been a bit sleep deprived last few days so maybe I'm just going crazy/imagining things.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> won't work well, you need to put a decent ultra-low RPM fan on the heatsink, since the airflow would just bypass the passive heatsinks through it's sides.
> 
> passive heatsinks only works because the spacing between the fins is wide enough to allow airflow with little to no pressure.


I've found many of the top air coolers work very well passively. Biggest limitation is fins need to be oriented vertically rather than horizontally.

Their fin spacing works just fine.

I've done this with PH-TC14PE, Silver Arrow SB-E, R1 Ultimate (maybe it was Universal). Dark Rock Pro 3, HR-22, HR-02, TRUE Spirit 140 varients, and even some of the smaller coolers like Macho 120, H5, TRUE Spirit 120, Lepa, etc. Some do better turned 90°, especially cooler with closed sides like Cryorig. The HR-xx / Machos work better this way too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> My mobo won't let it set below 34% on the CPU header, which makes it run at 620-630RPM. Case headers supposedly let them go all the way down to 0, but they still bottom out at 600RPM. I guess I'm just spoiled by my AP181. Rated for 700RPM and 1200RPM in Lo-Hi modes, translates to 250-700RPM on low and 350-1200RPM range on high, without any startup issues. Last night I finally plugged it back into my motherboard instead of a rheostat and could check the speeds.
> 
> Yup, it happens with both fans, when I place them in the middle position. At first I thought I had a defective fan, but there's no clicking when I let them spin unobstructed. I suppose I'll try to run them in DC mode when I get the chance and see if it makes a difference, otherwise duct making time it is.
> 
> What are the downsides of running a PWM fan in DC mode? Obviously I haven't looked into it too much, but on DC they're supposed to not be able to slow down as much as on PWM and stall when voltage gets too low? I did have one fan briefly on DC when I was configuring Q-fan, and it still took it through the entire 600-2500RPM range, so that kind of left me puzzled. Bonus point for DC mode is being able to bring a fan to a complete stop, below a certain temperature threshold.
> 
> I've been a bit sleep deprived last few days so maybe I'm just going crazy/imagining things.


You can run the TY-143 DC. Only potential problems are as you said not stalling them at too low a speed, and be careful not to overload fan header. Keep in mind these can pull up to 0.6amp each. If header shuts down below a set temperature we need to be sure when it does turn back on it supplies enough power to start the fan.


----------



## Loladinas

I'll have to check to be sure, but I think Q-fan takes care of that. Run it once and it detects how low the fan can go before stalling and won't let it be set below that threshold after. Yeah, one fan per header with these guys, and no plugging them into CPU and CPU_OPT at the same time, since they might share 1 amp between them, I got that.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I'll have to check to be sure, but I think Q-fan takes care of that. Run it once and it detects how low the fan can go before stalling and won't let it be set below that threshold after. Yeah, one fan per header with these guys, and no plugging them into CPU and CPU_OPT at the same time, since they might share 1 amp between them, I got that.


I figured you did. But with 'sleep deprivation' I just wanted to be sure.









If you do decide to make ducts, here is a basic guide to how I make them .. just in case it might help. http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22919853


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I've found many of the top air coolers work very well passively. Biggest limitation is fins need to be oriented vertically rather than horizontally.
> 
> Their fin spacing works just fine.


well they do have a large surface area to compensate for the somewhat dense fin stacks.

it would work, but just not well, at least compared to strictly passive heatsinks.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> well they do have a large surface area to compensate for the somewhat dense fin stacks.
> 
> it would work, but just not well, at least compared to strictly passive heatsinks.


With basic pricicples kept in mind, they work as well or better than many dedicated passive heatsinks .. in particular the NoFan CR-95C.

Thermalright HR-22, Macho Zero, etc. are designed to be used passive or semi-passive. The first HR-xx were passive coolers.
Their fin spacing is not that much different from most coolers designed to use fans.

You seem to be rather set in your opinion about this, so maybe we should not continue this discussion.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> With basic pricicples kept in mind, they work as well or better than many dedicated passive heatsinks .. in particular the NoFan CR-95C.
> 
> Thermalright HR-22, Macho Zero, etc. are designed to be used passive or semi-passive. The first HR-xx were passive coolers.
> Their fin spacing is not that much different from most coolers designed to use fans.
> 
> You seem to be rather set in your opinion about this, so maybe we should not continue this discussion.


There are quite a few people on these forums who refuse to see facts over their own opinions :l


----------



## marn3us

I am experimenting these days with a passive DRP3 in my Bitfenix Prodigy mITX and it works pretty well with the front AP182 and rear stock Bitfenix 120mm fan









With both fans running at full speed the results are extremely good indeed, but I suspect that's because the AP182 at 2000rpm is a total beast and it is quite close to the heatsink


----------



## Yekale7

Hello guys. I have a phanteks enthoo evolv itx and I'm not sure which fan shall I buy. Right now, I have on the front the stock cooler which comes with the case, on the top a h110i gtx with stock coolers at push under the radiator and a AF12 on the back of the case. I'm looking to have low noise and good performance.

I don't have a good airflow because there is too much hot air inside of the case while I'm playing. My card is a gtx 970 G1 and get's really hot.

Thanks in advance and sorry for my english maybe there are mistakes.

Edit: Well, low noise is relative, I mean while I'm playing I really don't care if I can hear them but not to much noise to be undesarible. So looking for best performance/price Fans for this case, then I will choose the fan speed rpms.

My choice: Noctua NF-A14 PWM / Noctua NF-A14 industrial 2000 PWM / NF-P12 PWM / NF-F12 PWM


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yekale7*
> 
> Hello guys. I have a phanteks enthoo evolv itx and I'm not sure which fan shall I buy. Right now, I have on the front the stock cooler which comes with the case, on the top a h110i gtx with stock coolers at push under the radiator and a AF12 on the back of the case. I'm looking to have low noise and good performance.
> 
> I don't have a good airflow because there is too much hot air inside of the case while I'm playing. My card is a gtx 970 G1 and get's really hot.
> 
> Thanks in advance and sorry for my english maybe there are mistakes.
> 
> Edit: Well, low noise is relative, I mean while I'm playing I really don't care if I can hear them but not to much noise to be undesarible. So looking for best performance/price Fans for this case, then I will choose the fan speed rpms.
> 
> My choice: Noctua NF-A14 PWM / Noctua NF-A14 industrial 2000 PWM / NF-P12 PWM / NF-F12 PWM


Get the P12. If you want value for money, look into Arctic Cooling F12 PWM.


----------



## Loladinas

Some findings;

running TY-143, on my board, on PWM does make the motor click at low speeds. All four headers seem to be capable of PWM (took a three pin fan, ran on PWM, no matter the setting runs at 100%). Running them on DC solves the clicking problem, but introduces another one. I can't set the fans in UEFI to run below 60%, which is something like 1700 RPM. PWM range is 20-100%, DC range is 60-100%. Once in OS I can set the fans manually at 18%, which puts one of them at roughly 300 RPM and the other at 400 RPM. They can be stopped at those speeds and they'll start up again without stalling. If I run Qfan they'll bottom out at some arbitrary value like 24%, or 31%, and it's always different, but never as low as I can go once in OS.

I have no idea what the hell is going on.

 

EDIT: wow, this is embarrassing. So I felt it was frustrating enough to warrant flashing BIOS. No results. Then I noticed there was a setting for minimum RPM and I had it set on "Ignore". When I set it to "200 RPM" and ran Qfan I was able to set 24% in DC mode. I ran Qfan again, and when the fan stalled I nudged it with my finger. I was then able to set it at 21% (540 RPM). Is this considered cheating? Maybe if I keep poking it it'll give me full range.

Trying to do same with PWM still results in the same 34%, 600 RPM.


----------



## iakoboss7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Get the P12. If you want value for money, look into Arctic Cooling F12 PWM.


i know i have said it before... but any chance to bench the rev.2? to see exactly how vfm is right now...


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iakoboss7*
> 
> i know i have said it before... but any chance to bench the rev.2? to see exactly how vfm is right now...


Haven't got a chance to look at those yet.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> when the fan stalled I nudged it with my finger. I was then able to set it at 21% (540 RPM). Is this considered cheating?


I'm not brave enough to run my fans anywhere near an RPM setting that's low enough that the fan struggles to spin up. After I set lower RPM limits on my fans I get a flashlight and visually verify that each fan can spin up without struggling. I don't just trust the software to make that determination. I like to see it with my own eyes.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> I'm not brave enough to run my fans anywhere near an RPM setting that's low enough that the fan struggles to spin up. After I set lower RPM limits on my fans I get a flashlight and visually verify that each fan can spin up without struggling. I don't just trust the software to make that determination. I like to see it with my own eyes.


After more testing last night It looks like they both can run sub 300 RPM on voltage control, using Speedfan, but flat out refuse to go below 600 PRM on PWM. Odd, I suppose. I've set them both up to idle at 500 RPM, lowest Qfan will allow me to set them. They don't seem to have any issues running at those speeds, even starting from a complete stop, and yeah I had them in sight at all times (see picture). I think it's just a case of some built in protection of Qfan being less than helpful. Sure, we allow you to put 1.5 volts into your CPU, but god forbid your fan might stall. Asus logic. I've also tested my heatsink fanless, with just the case fan running at its lowest setting, and short of stress testing, it was usable.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Some findings;
> 
> running TY-143
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> , on my board, on PWM does make the motor click at low speeds. All four headers seem to be capable of PWM (took a three pin fan, ran on PWM, no matter the setting runs at 100%). Running them on DC solves the clicking problem, but introduces another one. I can't set the fans in UEFI to run below 60%, which is something like 1700 RPM. PWM range is 20-100%, DC range is 60-100%. Once in OS I can set the fans manually at 18%, which puts one of them at roughly 300 RPM and the other at 400 RPM. They can be stopped at those speeds and they'll start up again without stalling. If I run Qfan they'll bottom out at some arbitrary value like 24%, or 31%, and it's always different, but never as low as I can go once in OS.
> 
> I have no idea what the hell is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: wow, this is embarrassing. So I felt it was frustrating enough to warrant flashing BIOS. No results. Then I noticed there was a setting for minimum RPM and I had it set on "Ignore". When I set it to "200 RPM" and ran Qfan I was able to set 24% in DC mode. I ran Qfan again, and when the fan stalled I nudged it with my finger. I was then able to set it at 21% (540 RPM). Is this considered cheating? Maybe if I keep poking it it'll give me full range.
> 
> Trying to do same with PWM still results in the same 34%, 600 RPM.


As long as fans will start themselves you should be fine. When you start computer do the fans all spin up fast, then slow back down? Many do this to be sure fans are spinning.








TY-143 is not designed to run below 600rpm. Original idle spec was 900rpm, but they idled down to 600rpm. Finally Thermalright lowered their published specs.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> As long as fans will start themselves you should be fine. When you start computer do the fans all spin up fast, then slow back down? Many do this to be sure fans are spinning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TY-143 is not designed to run below 600rpm. Original idle spec was 900rpm, but they idled down to 600rpm. Finally Thermalright lowered their published specs.


i actually wish they do this on the motherboard bios level.

the motherboard's fan heeader/controller should start at 100% mode then tune down to the set value.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i actually wish they do this on the motherboard bios level.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> the motherboard's fan heeader/controller should start at 100% mode then tune down to the set value
> 
> 
> .


\
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. When I set my fan speed curve with motherboard software it is setting the bios controls from windows interface. After it is set the windows application can be turned of .. even removed and the settings remain in bios.


----------



## epic1337

no i mean if you set the fan to run at a constant % or RPM, during boot it would bypass that settings to start the fan at 100% then run the fan at the specified speed.

this would ideally solve all fan starting problems, specially those which has a high-starting voltage.


----------



## Loladinas

But that's how it already works on my board. Each time I reboot I have the privilege of listening to two 2500 RPM fans and one 180mm going off at 1300 RPM. It's not... great.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> But that's how it already works on my board. Each time I reboot I have the privilege of listening to two 2500 RPM fans and one 180mm going off at 1300 RPM. It's not... great.


How about when waking from sleep? My Maximus VIII doesn't rev the fans at full RPM on waking. That's when I like to check my fans to see they don't struggle to spin up.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> How about when waking from sleep? My Maximus VIII doesn't rev the fans at full RPM on waking. That's when I like to check my fans to see they don't struggle to spin up.


I don't use sleep, but I'll check when I come home. I have them set up to idle at 21%/520-540 RPM, they start to spin up at 17%/ 280-300 RPM (again, tested with Speedfan), so I think I'm OK in that regard.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I don't use sleep, but I'll check when I come home. I have them set up to idle at 21%/520-540 RPM, they start to spin up at 17%/ 280-300 RPM (again, tested with Speedfan), so I think I'm OK in that regard.


This is the TY-143 starting at 17% / 280-300rpm? Sounds too good to be true. Not doubting you, just haven't tried the newer ones to see how low they will idle to. My old ones only idle down to about 600rpm.


----------



## Loladinas

Yup. Go up a few posts, I posted a screenshot. UEFI won't let me set them below 21% no matter what, but I can change the speed once booted in OS.


----------



## doyll

I just checked by TY-143 on MSI Z170 Mortar using MSI Command Center set at 20% PWM
Older ones
I don't have new TY-143 as all of mine were made at lest 18 months ago, and they idle 600-660rpm.
I do have a couple of the new TY-143 Sq (square model) that idle at 565-570rpm on same 20%.

Also, I hear no tic from any of them.

I'll try and test them on quaero 5 sometime and see if they will idle lower at lower PWM settings. It will run down to 0% instead of the 20% PWM minimum on this motherboard.









Edit: The TY-143 Sq is brand new so may change slightly with use.

Noise Level:
The ambient noise floor on bench is 35dB right now because of a transformer hum.
TY-143 Sq @ 665-570rpm measures 40dB @ 10cm. That converts to 20dB @ 1 meter. That is well below normal ambient noise level of our environments.


----------



## miklkit

My TY-143s are idling at 690 rpm +-. I can't hear them over the case fans which are whooshing air in past the foam filters.


----------



## Loladinas

Sat down and ran the fan through it's full range, taking note of RPM. The fan was made on November 17th, 2015. The fan was mounted on the front of the heatsink in a closed case, all the other fans were turned off. I only did this with one of the fans, because this takes forever. Some points of note;


17% - 230 RPM - fan has trouble starting, tachometer goes crazy occasionally
18% - 274 RPM - no issues starting
21% - 545 RPM - the lowest I can set in UEFI
24% - 652 RPM - audible after this point
25% - 726 RPM - a rather loud electrical hum comes from the motor, kind of like a speaker that's not properly grounded, noise goes away with increased RPM
36% - 990 RPM - last point where I would consider this fan "silent", it's clearly audible but not the high-pitched annoying kind of sound
97% - 2402 RPM - does not go any faster than this


EDIT: yes, mobo spins up the fans after coming out of sleep above their set idle speed


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Sat down and ran the fan through it's full range, taking note of RPM. The fan was made on November 17th, 2015. The fan was mounted on the front of the heatsink in a closed case, all the other fans were turned off. I only did this with one of the fans, because this takes forever. Some points of note;
> 
> 
> 17% - 230 RPM - fan has trouble starting, tachometer goes crazy occasionally
> 18% - 274 RPM - no issues starting
> 21% - 545 RPM - the lowest I can set in UEFI
> 24% - 652 RPM - audible after this point
> 25% - 726 RPM - a rather loud electrical hum comes from the motor, kind of like a speaker that's not properly grounded, noise goes away with increased RPM
> 36% - 990 RPM - last point where I would consider this fan "silent", it's clearly audible but not the high-pitched annoying kind of sound
> 97% - 2402 RPM - does not go any faster than this
> 
> 
> EDIT: yes, mobo spins up the fans after coming out of sleep above their set idle speed


I wish we knew what the voltage at 17% is, .. and 18%, 21%, 24%, etc. Then I could duplicate the voltage and see what mine do.


----------



## baii

I got a ty-141(the brown one) cheap through amazon, it lower to around 600 though rated 900-1300. Can we sue for false advertising?


----------



## Loladinas

I don't think you can sue anyone for getting more than advertised.


----------



## stoker

Thoughts on upgrading from x3 NF-P12 on XSPC EX360 to EK F2, F3 -F4 120's


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Thoughts on upgrading from x3 NF-P12 on XSPC EX360 to EK F2, F3 -F4 120's


Better temps with more noise (a lot more noise if the F4 spins up to 2200). The P12 is one of the smoothest sounding fans. The 120mm vardars that I've used, have a more coarse sound signature. So definitely swap them all. Because, like pop stars, we can never have enough fans.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Better temps with more noise (a lot more noise if the F4 spins up to 2200). The P12 is one of the smoothest sounding fans. The 120mm vardars that I've used, have a more coarse sound signature. So definitely swap them all. Because, like pop stars, we can never have enough fans.


Agreed P12 are very smooth, even running them at max.

Any idea how well a F2 1450rpm would compare to P12 1350rpm?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Agreed P12 are very smooth, even running them at max.
> Any idea how well a F2 1450rpm would compare to P12 1350rpm?


When I compared both on a cooler, the F2 was 2 degrees cooler. The vardar has higher static pressure since it's designed to use on a, you know, a rad. ;-)

My fav 120mm fan has become the Darkside GT PWM 1850rpm. It's very smooth sounding (other than the 500hz resonance around 900-1000rpm) and pushes more air than the P12. Albeit with more noise, but it's not a horrible noise...just a powerful whoosh. Comparable to the vardar F4ER, but smoother sounding at lower rpms.

The P12 is still my fav noise-to-airflow 120mm fan. Its sound signature is so benign in use to my ears.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> When I compared both on a cooler, the F2 was 2 degrees cooler. The vardar has higher static pressure since it's designed to use on a, you know, a rad. ;-)


A rad ? I thought we were talking caravan toilet vent. In all seriousness 2c may not be worth the noise change for me.

I have always wanted some GT's though local availability was none and shipping more expensive than i like.

If only the P-12's could be modded for some extra rpm


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> A rad ? I thought we were talking caravan toilet vent. In all seriousness 2c may not be worth the noise change for me.
> I have always wanted some GT's though local availability was none and shipping more expensive than i like.
> 
> If only the P-12's could be modded for some extra rpm


That's the crappy thing about cooling toilets gear, the fan rpm increase hardly ever scales with the temp decrease we hope for. And if the P12 spun up to say 1500-1600rpm and returned 2-3 degree cooler temps, you'd prolly not like the their sound anymore.

Look at Cyclops tests of the P12 and the vardar F4, the vardar gives 4 degrees lower temps, but with 12dB more noise. That's over twice as loud as the P12. (10dB increase in SPL is perceived as twice as loud)

And for giggles, check Cyclops result of those insane deafening 7200rpm deltas...5 degrees better than the F4, but 37dB louder!!! Server room hell on ears.

Cooling is a game of tradeoffs and rapidly diminishing returns. Still..there's a new P12, rumoured to be released this year (or next. or the one after). Maybe it'll run quieter and a little faster.


----------



## stoker

Ah yes +10db twice as loud, i've been thinking +3db but thats twice the power (old spl comp days)

well that puts twist on it.

Yes i've seen all the data by cyclops

So you say new P12's, well if they made them in black like ipp or grey redux version i would have 6 in push/pull please


----------



## stoker

I can just hear just barely a slight change in 3db and very noticeably 5db


----------



## doyll

Yeah, between 2-3db change is needed for use to even know there is a difference in level, and that's concentrating on hearing a change. . Realistically, under normal conditions most of use need a change of 4-5db to notice it. Obviously, the higher the volume is to start with the more noticeable the difference / the less db is needed to notice the change.')


----------



## stoker

Ok thanks.

Any one use 140 EK F1 or F2 as case fans?

Good idea?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Ah yes +10db twice as loud, i've been thinking +3db but thats twice the power (old spl comp days)
> well that puts twist on it.
> 
> Yes i've seen all the data by cyclops
> 
> So you say new P12's, well if they made them in black like ipp or grey redux version i would have 6 in push/pull please


Are you running 6 P12s in push/pull now? If not, you could add either F2s or P12s in pull and improve midrange temps with little to no noise increase. Or...have you tried shrouds? Try the shroud! It's made fresh daily!

Or...using adapters could mount some 140mm fans that will provide more airflow with a little less noise. Dependent on the chosen fans, of course.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Ok thanks.
> Any one use 140 EK F1 or F2 as case fans?
> Good idea?


RMA'd all my 140 vardars. The first and 2nd batches I got had horrible bearing noise issues and PWM chirps. Will check them again sometime when the Q/A issues are confirmed to be resolved.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Are you running 6 P12s in push/pull now? If not, you could add either F2s or P12s in pull and improve midrange temps with little to no noise increase. Or...have you tried shrouds? Try the shroud! It's made fresh daily!
> 
> Or...using adapters could mount some 140mm fans that will provide more airflow with a little less noise. Dependent on the chosen fans, of course.


No only 3, if they came in black i'd buy another 3. I haven't tried the shroud yet, i do have some old antec fans from an old 1200 case i could mod.

Running 140mm fans sounds like an idea, more flow at lesser noise interest me though is there a 360 to 420 shroud available?

EDIT, pulled the trigger and have 3x 120F4ER's coming. If i like them i'll get some more


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> EDIT, pulled the trigger and have 3x 120F4ER's coming. If i like them i'll get some more


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> RMA'd all my 140 vardars. The first and 2nd batches I got had horrible bearing noise issues and PWM chirps. Will check them again sometime when the Q/A issues are confirmed to be resolved.


How was your RMA experience with EK? do you have to ship back and pay freight?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> No only 3, if they came in black i'd buy another 3. I haven't tried the shroud yet, i do have some old antec fans from an old 1200 case i could mod.
> 
> Running 140mm fans sounds like an idea, more flow at lesser noise interest me though is there a 360 to 420 shroud available?
> 
> EDIT, pulled the trigger and have 3x 120F4ER's coming. If i like them i'll get some more


I've used these Bgears adapters in combo with DIY shrouds. Adapter alone not a good match on the rad side.

Let us know how the F4ER wind blows...;-)


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> How was your RMA experience with EK? do you have to ship back and pay freight?


I returned to the retailer, as I'm on the west coast of Canada. If I had to ship back to EK...would have just turned the defective 140s into expensive shrouds.


----------



## doyll

Just a bit of FYI, but many countries have consumer protection laws that make companies pay for all costs involved with defective merchandise. Companies often do no give this information to consumers, but warranty includes a statement to the effect that laws may give consumer more rights than warranty says. More often than not I have had to mention the fact my country's laws say defective prodcuct return cost must be paid by company before they cough up the return costs. Best way is to have them give you a pick-up / return label so all you have to do is notify courier to have package picked up.


----------



## stoker

@MicroCat &

@doyll

thanks for the advice and help

REP+


----------



## Onions

figured this is a good place to ask.. im looking for a chrome coloured fan.... they are going on a thick non dense rad? any ideas


----------



## Akhenaton

Hi guys! I hope to be in the right thread.
Question: how many °C could I earn by replacing two Arctic F12 with two Corsair SP120HP on a 30mm radiator in your opinion? 2°C?
And adding two more (push-pull)?

Thanks


----------



## stoker

Fans arrived today, only got 3x F4 120's for now.

Plugged them in here at work and can say noise is not bad for 2200rpm









Will install them tonight


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions*
> 
> figured this is a good place to ask.. im looking for a chrome coloured fan.... they are going on a thick non dense rad? any ideas


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835214029

Only one I know of that's close.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akhenaton*
> 
> Hi guys! I hope to be in the right thread.
> Question: how many °C could I earn by replacing two Arctic F12 with two Corsair SP120HP on a 30mm radiator in your opinion? 2°C?
> And adding two more (push-pull)?
> 
> Thanks


0 to 3C if you're lucky, maybe, for a lot more noise.


----------



## Onions

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835214029
> 
> Only one I know of that's close.


i found these http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119032

any advice


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions*
> 
> i found these http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119032
> 
> any advice


thats... interesting, i wonder if the aluminum chassis could actually serve as an additional thermal mass for the heatsink its attached to.


----------



## Onions

im gonan use it on a rad.... ill ahv eto shave them a bit to maek them fit but if they suck i dont even wanna bother i mean i only got a quad rad for my i5 and a 980 potentially a second 980 im used to 2 quads and a tripple XD


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akhenaton*
> 
> Hi guys! I hope to be in the right thread.
> Question: how many °C could I earn by replacing two Arctic F12 with two Corsair SP120HP on a 30mm radiator in your opinion? 2°C?
> And adding two more (push-pull)?
> 
> Thanks


At the extreme there might be 2c difference, but it will be at least twice as loud. Nidec Gentle Typhoon 2150 PWM will give similar improvement with only slightly louder noise levels.

4X GT 2150 PWM would probably give another couple of degrees. The improvement will be more noticable at lower RPM.

Running from 4x fans instead of 2x fans increases noise by another 3dBA


----------



## Akhenaton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 0 to 3C if you're lucky, maybe, for a lot more noise.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> At the extreme there might be 2c difference, but it will be at least twice as loud. Nidec Gentle Typhoon 2150 PWM will give similar improvement with only slightly louder noise levels.
> 
> 4X GT 2150 PWM would probably give another couple of degrees. The improvement will be more noticable at lower RPM.
> 
> Running from 4x fans instead of 2x fans increases noise by another 3dBA


Thanks!
Might I be able to contain the noise increase using a pwm splitter to adjust their speed?
I would like to replace my F12 for an aesthetic factor, but I wouldn't an airport in my case









I feel the push-pull extremely disadvantageous considering costs and noise.

Unfortunately the GT are quite hard to find in my country :/


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Akhenaton*
> 
> Thanks!
> Might I be able to contain the noise increase using a pwm splitter to adjust their speed?
> I would like to replace my F12 for an aesthetic factor, but I wouldn't an airport in my case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel the push-pull extremely disadvantageous considering costs and noise.
> 
> Unfortunately the GT are quite hard to find in my country :/


If you cannot get the GT, maybe get EK Vardar F4 120ER. They are new and many users think they are very good, but some have complained about them not being as good as GTs. User @geggeg here has Thermalbench site and has texted both.
http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/10/darkside-gentle-typhoon-black-edition-2150rpm-120mm-fan/3/

Honestly, the Arctic F12 is a good fan, especially for what they cost. Going to a faster running fan means you definitely need to be able to control their speed based on CPU temp. It is usually easily done using CPU fan header. I prefer using PWM fans because it gives more versatility.


----------



## Akhenaton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you cannot get the GT, maybe get EK Vardar F4 120ER. They are new and many users think they are very good, but some have complained about them not being as good as GTs. User @geggeg here has Thermalbench site and has texted both.
> http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/10/darkside-gentle-typhoon-black-edition-2150rpm-120mm-fan/3/
> 
> Honestly, the Arctic F12 is a good fan, especially for what they cost. Going to a faster running fan means you definitely need to be able to control their speed based on CPU temp. It is usually easily done using CPU fan header. I prefer using PWM fans because it gives more versatility.


Thanks for your suggestions









I'm currently using a Silverstone fan hub (CPF04) to control three Noctua NF-P14s redux-1500 and the two F12.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you cannot get the GT, maybe get EK Vardar F4 120ER. They are new and many users think they are very good, but some have complained about them not being as good as GTs. User @geggeg here has Thermalbench site and has texted both.
> http://thermalbench.com/2015/07/10/darkside-gentle-typhoon-black-edition-2150rpm-120mm-fan/3/


I do love to text fans









I kid, I kid.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Onions*
> 
> i found these http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119032
> 
> any advice


The blades look similar to these fans that I've reviewed so you should check them out on the first page:

47 - IPCQueen IPC-12025
49 - Kingwin CF-012LB
51 - Apevia CF12SL-UBL


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> I do love to text fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kid, I kid.


And your fans love texting you.

Me too. Me too.


----------



## stoker

Reporting back on the EK F4 120ER's.

Nice fans i must say, after 70% (using voltage control atm) you can hear the air pushing through my rad. Not loud though sweet spot is about 65%.

At 75% these things are pushing a good amount of air and are as loud as my AF140L intake fans at max. But the noise is really only airflow noise

At 100% lots of airflow and again only airflow noise. Great for benching


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Reporting back on the EK F4 120ER's.
> 
> Nice fans i must say, after 70% (using voltage control atm) you can hear the air pushing through my rad. Not loud though sweet spot is about 65%.
> At 75% these things are pushing a good amount of air and are as loud as my AF140L intake fans at max. But the noise is really only airflow noise
> At 100% lots of airflow and again only airflow noise. Great for benching


Thanks for the report. Did you see a 2-3 degree temp improvement over the P12s? How are the sonics below 50%?


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Thanks for the report. Did you see a 2-3 degree temp improvement over the P12s? How are the sonics below 50%?


Oh yes at max rpm 2-3 degrees easy. I haven't tested below 60% only cause i have other noisier parts to be upgraded. But at 60% i'd stay slightly quieter than my P12's at max. I don't have a rpm signal connected to the fans atm so rpm difference +/- 100 maybe


----------



## stoker

So connected the rpm signal

60%= 1405 almost inaudible

65%= 1510 quite

70%= 1650 air noise, very decent

75%= 1800 air noise, still good

Very happy with the extra cooling performance


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> So connected the rpm signal
> 60%= 1405 almost inaudible
> 65%= 1510 quite
> 70%= 1650 air noise, very decent
> 75%= 1800 air noise, still good
> 
> Very happy with the extra cooling performance


That's great! You're happy and I can have the laser-cutting shop stand down from the thousand dollar one-off 120-to140 shroud adapter kickstarter project we were planning to launch for you tomorrow.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> That's great! You're happy and I can have the laser-cutting shop stand down from the thousand dollar one-off 120-to140 shroud adapter kickstarter project we were planning to launch for you tomorrow.


Yes better cancel it









That first 500 bulk order is just a dream now


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Hey guys! Quick question! I'm back to air cooling and I'm looking for a great PWM fan for my nt06-pro air cooler..

Here's a few options I'm considering...tell me if I'm wrong...

1. Fractal Design - Venturi High Pressure PWM - Here
2. Cooler Master - Silencio PWM - Here
3. Cougar - CF-V12HP Vortex - Here
4. Arctic Cooling - F12 PWM - Here
5. Cooler Master - Jetflo 120 PWM - Here
6. Arctic Cooling - F12 Pro PWM - Here
7. Rosewill - Hyperbola PWM - Here

I can get a few of these fans at my local MC a few miles down the road... I'm considering just getting a few and testing them then returning which ever I don't like... They've got the CM Jetflo, Arctic Cooling F12 PRO, CM Silencio's and Cougar fans.

Thanks!


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Actually I'm going to go with the Arctic Cooling F12 PRO PWM... Looks to be good performance and I think it'll do well where my current fan is underneath the cooler...
This is my current F12 non-pwm fan... Little noisy in idle use... I'm hoping my motherboards PWM software is good in the bios... It just has a "fan Level" 0-9 or "custom" setting which gives me a 0-255 value to select... Then a temp target, 45C is the lowest.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Actually I'm going to go with the Arctic Cooling F12 PRO PWM... Looks to be good performance and I think it'll do well where my current fan is underneath the cooler...
> This is my current F12 non-pwm fan... Little noisy in idle use... I'm hoping my motherboards PWM software is good in the bios... It just has a "fan Level" 0-9 or "custom" setting which gives me a 0-255 value to select... Then a temp target, 45C is the lowest.


I would not get it simply because it can only be used to move air one way.
Pancake coolers usually cool everything better moviing air away from motherboard instead of toward motherboard. the Pro cannot do this on bottom of cooler.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Actually I'm going to go with the Arctic Cooling F12 PRO PWM... Looks to be good performance and I think it'll do well where my current fan is underneath the cooler...
> This is my current F12 non-pwm fan... Little noisy in idle use... I'm hoping my motherboards PWM software is good in the bios... It just has a "fan Level" 0-9 or "custom" setting which gives me a 0-255 value to select... Then a temp target, 45C is the lowest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would not get it simply because it can only be used to move air one way.
> Pancake coolers usually cool everything better moviing air away from motherboard instead of toward motherboard. the Pro cannot do this on bottom of cooler.
Click to expand...

Wait, so your saying the open style of fan surround is a bad idea if this fan is going to be blowing air up out through the cooler and out the case?

Specs check fail... the PRO is 37mm deep...too deep for beneath the cooler. Looks like the F12 PWM might be better now...and its cheap.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I would not get it simply because it can only be used to move air one way.
> Pancake coolers usually cool everything better moviing air away from motherboard instead of toward motherboard. the Pro cannot do this on bottom of cooler.


Why can't he switch the fan around? It seems doable in that picture.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Why can't he switch the fan around? It seems doable in that picture.


The F12 Pro are cages with mounts on only one side, and airflow if from the mounting side.


----------



## VSG

That's not very pro


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> That's not very pro


Yeah, and the fan on the cooler is mounted moving air up from CPU.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Ordered the Arctic Cooling F12 PWM... I basically expect it to sound the same as my F12's non-pwm fans. It'll hopefully be worth it to have the PWM because I can definitely benefit from a reduced CPU fan from 100% 24/7...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Ordered the Arctic Cooling F12 PWM... I basically expect it to sound the same as my F12's non-pwm fans. It'll hopefully be worth it to have the PWM because I can definitely benefit from a reduced CPU fan from 100% 24/7...


Why can't you use variable voltage control on your present fan?


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> Ordered the Arctic Cooling F12 PWM... I basically expect it to sound the same as my F12's non-pwm fans. It'll hopefully be worth it to have the PWM because I can definitely benefit from a reduced CPU fan from 100% 24/7...
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you use variable voltage control on your present fan?
Click to expand...

What do you mean? The motherboard doesn't change the speed of the fan at all no matter what I do in the bios because its only a 3 pin... I guess it doesn't work that way and it needs to have the 4 pin PWM to work? I ended up plugging the fan into the fan controller I have now in my case but I don't want to have to mess with it every time I start gaming to ramp the fan up... I want it to work automatically with the PWM...

PWM is voltage controlled correct? So technically I could have other fans tethered to the PWM and just control the voltage from the PWM... So basically I could have my 3 pin case fans attached to the PWM and operate the same way? hmm...


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> What do you mean? The motherboard doesn't change the speed of the fan at all no matter what I do in the bios because its only a 3 pin... I guess it doesn't work that way and it needs to have the 4 pin PWM to work? I ended up plugging the fan into the fan controller I have now in my case but I don't want to have to mess with it every time I start gaming to ramp the fan up... I want it to work automatically with the PWM...
> 
> PWM is voltage controlled correct? So technically I could have other fans tethered to the PWM and just control the voltage from the PWM... So basically I could have my 3 pin case fans attached to the PWM and operate the same way? hmm...


There are two ways of controlling fan speed - PWM and voltage. Speed of a fan with a "3pin" connector can be controlled by voltage. It will spin at it's full rated RPM at 12 volts, and as you decrease the voltage so will the RPM.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> What do you mean? The motherboard doesn't change the speed of the fan at all no matter what I do in the bios because its only a 3 pin... I guess it doesn't work that way and it needs to have the 4 pin PWM to work? I ended up plugging the fan into the fan controller I have now in my case but I don't want to have to mess with it every time I start gaming to ramp the fan up... I want it to work automatically with the PWM...
> 
> PWM is voltage controlled correct? So technically I could have other fans tethered to the PWM and just control the voltage from the PWM... So basically I could have my 3 pin case fans attached to the PWM and operate the same way? hmm...


3-pin fans are voltage controlled, but most CPU fan headers can be set to either PWM or variable voltage control. There is usually a choice of variable voltage or PWM for CPU fan header in Bios.

*PWM is not voltage controlled!* It is PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) controlled. The voltage is always 12 volt. The 12v is pulsed to control fan speed.









PWM 4-pin control and variable voltage 3-pin control are completely different.
But they do both use pin-1 for ground and pin-3 for rpm signal .. and pin-2 is power.
The differences are the pin-2 power for PWM is constant 12v and the pin-2 power for variable voltage is, well, variable voltage.
The PWM pulsing of 12v power to fan is done in the fan on it's own PWM circuitry, which is controlled by PWM signal on pin-4


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> What do you mean? The motherboard doesn't change the speed of the fan at all no matter what I do in the bios because its only a 3 pin... I guess it doesn't work that way and it needs to have the 4 pin PWM to work? I ended up plugging the fan into the fan controller I have now in my case but I don't want to have to mess with it every time I start gaming to ramp the fan up... I want it to work automatically with the PWM...
> 
> PWM is voltage controlled correct? So technically I could have other fans tethered to the PWM and just control the voltage from the PWM... So basically I could have my 3 pin case fans attached to the PWM and operate the same way? hmm...
> 
> 
> 
> There are two ways of controlling fan speed - PWM and voltage. Speed of a fan with a "3pin" connector can be controlled by voltage. It will spin at it's full rated RPM at 12 volts, and as you decrease the voltage so will the RPM.
Click to expand...

I googled it after I asked the question...









Looks like I'll have to use the fan controller... Guess it might be time to cut out a hole in the side of the case to mount it. Oh well. It'll be nice at least to have a controlled CPU fan, that's where about 75% of my case noise comes from right now...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> I googled it after I asked the question...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like I'll have to use the fan controller... Guess it might be time to cut out a hole in the side of the case to mount it. Oh well. It'll be nice at least to have a controlled CPU fan, that's where about 75% of my case noise comes from right now...


I don't know if I've ever had a motherboard with no speed control on CPU fan header. It I did it was at least 20 years ago .. maybe 30 years .. maybe never.


----------



## Cyclops

Trying to add more products to the first page but I can't edit those earlier posts.


----------



## rtikphox

Why don't you do a new thread and have the mods link it to the new one? and add reply saved spots for future additions?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Trying to add more products to the first page but I can't edit those earlier posts.


Contact the mods and they will give you access to your old posts. I had the same problem with some of my info threads. There is a mod who does this, but I can't remember who it was.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Contact the mods and they will give you access to your old posts. I had the same problem with some of my info threads. There is a mod who does this, but I can't remember who it was.


Yeah, I contacted @ENTERPRISE. Have to wait for a reply.

I've got 11 fans on the table that are done. Need to publish the results. New graphs too.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, I contacted @ENTERPRISE. Have to wait for a reply.
> 
> I've got 11 fans on the table that are done. Need to publish the results. New graphs too.


Hopefully he will get you setup soon.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm gonna ask Arctic Cooling to send me a pair of these: https://www.arctic.ac/us_en/f12-silent.html


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm gonna ask Arctic Cooling to send me a pair of these: https://www.arctic.ac/us_en/f12-silent.html


Looks like same F12, just lower speed at 12v. I suspect performance is same at same rpm.


----------



## Loladinas

It's been a couple of weeks since I've started using TY-143. Pretty solid fan, but I've noticed its motor starts to "resonate" at certain RPMs. Quite annoying.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> It's been a couple of weeks since I've started using TY-143. Pretty solid fan, but I've noticed its motor starts to "resonate" at certain RPMs. Quite annoying.


Only had this happen when I used them on my PH-TC14PE. The resonance was only at one very narrow rpm range. I simply adjusted PWM% curve to temperature so system ran below or above that rpm. I used this cooler & fan setup on a couple different systems. One only had two point curve settings, others had three or four points. Move points makes it easier to get around the harmonic resonance range.

I don't think it's so much the fan as to do with the fin / grill hole spacing and distance from fan creating a harmonic frequency between blades when passing fin/grill at a certain speed... Slight change in any one of these will likely solve the problem.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Only had this happen when I used them on my PH-TC14PE. The resonance was only at one very narrow rpm range. I simply adjusted PWM% curve to temperature so system ran below or above that rpm. I used this cooler & fan setup on a couple different systems. One only had two point curve settings, others had three or four points. Move points makes it easier to get around the harmonic resonance range.
> 
> I don't think it's so much the fan as to do with the fin / grill hole spacing and distance from fan creating a harmonic frequency between blades when passing fin/grill at a certain speed... Slight change in any one of these will likely solve the problem.


I'm currently using Speedfan with a custom fan curve doing precisely that, but that's a less than ideal solution. I don't like to rely on software for my fan control.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I'm currently using Speedfan with a custom fan curve doing precisely that, but that's a less than ideal solution. I don't like to rely on software for my fan control.


I haven't used Speed Fan in years. Motherboards have done what i needed.

I had a similar problem on PH-TC14PE with TY-140 fans, and neither they or TY-143 have done it in any other of my applications. All cooler applications are on open bench station a 60cm from my ears so I notice pretty much all noises.

I haven't tested any of the Vardar fans, but have seen lots of posts about them having harmonic noise issues with grills and radiators.
But maybe their users are as picky as we are.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I haven't used Speed Fan in years. Motherboards have done what i needed.
> 
> I had a similar problem on PH-TC14PE with TY-140 fans, and neither they or TY-143 have done it in any other of my applications. All cooler applications are on open bench station a 60cm from my ears so I notice pretty much all noises.
> 
> I haven't tested any of the Vardar fans, but have seen lots of posts about them having harmonic noise issues with grills and radiators.
> But maybe their users are as picky as we are.


Speedfan has quite a few advantages over the fan controller that ASUS has put in UEFI;


0 - 100% range, instead of 20-100%
16 adjustable points, instead of 4
any temperature range, instead of 20C to 75C
can control a single fan from multiple temperature sources (say, an intake fan adjusting speed according to both CPU and GPU temps, whichever is higher, with two custom fan curves)
can control fans from any temperature source, not just mobo sensors
But it's still 3rd party software, and having to install something just get get what should be "basic" functionality seems kind of... wrong.

My case is roughly 90cm away from my right ear, and even though it has some sound dampening, quite a bit of sound escapes through the relatively open front and back. I recently changed the cooling on my GPU, so the previously loudest component in my box doesn't produce any noise at all, making other fans relatively loud again.


----------



## Cyclops

We've got a new contender for highest 140mm noise to temp ratio in every scenario and it is....

You'll just have to wait till I can edit the first few posts.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> We've got a new contender for highest 140mm noise to temp ratio in every scenario and it is....
> 
> You'll just have to wait till I can edit the first few posts.





Spoiler: Teaser Alert!





Nothing to see here...unfortunately.


Would have preferred you used the spoiler alert...oh well...once the majestic OCN bureaucratic process has corrected the outrageous indignity of locking you out of your thread we'll know - just in time for Zen.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Teaser Alert!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here...unfortunately.
> 
> 
> Would have preferred you used the spoiler alert...oh well...once the majestic OCN bureaucratic process has corrected the outrageous indignity of locking you out of your thread we'll know - just in time for Zen.


Too late.

It's not just me. I think posts older than 18 months get locked.

I asked for access almost 3 days ago so...................... Here we are.


----------



## mrtbahgs

If you only did a PM, you could try flagging/reporting your OP and explain you want to edit it.
That may bring it to the attention of multiple mods/admins that can help.


----------



## Cyclops

The suspense must be killing you guys. Which fan could possibly be at the top of every single noise to temp chart?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> The suspense must be killing you guys. Which fan could possibly be at the top of every single noise to temp chart?


Now you're just being cruel...









Hope we live to see the results...but death by optimum airflow anticipation isn't the worst way to go.


----------



## Cyclops

But, sir, what could it be?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 
> 
> But, sir, what could it be?


Pretty sure it's the 140mm something something...Hmmm...no PWM, right? A 3pin with it's own controller? Am I close?


----------



## Cyclops

I noticed @ENTERPRISE came online some hours ago but the posts are still locked







.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I noticed @ENTERPRISE came online some hours ago but the posts are still locked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Natures way of saying...Time for more hints!


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I noticed @ENTERPRISE came online some hours ago but the posts are still locked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hanging out for this ^

Any chance you'll be testing some 140mm Vadars?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Hanging out for this ^
> Any chance you'll be testing some 140mm Vadars?


Sure, if EK is willing to send me some samples.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Sure, if EK is willing to send me some samples.


It would be in there best interests if they did.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I noticed @ENTERPRISE came online some hours ago but the posts are still locked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


And still locked...maybe if you read some Vogan poetry to the mods it might inspire them to speed up the grand unlock process...


----------



## Cyclops

All the charts in the first post have been updated.


----------



## Cyclops

I usually re-validate the test bench after about a year or so to make sure margins have remained consistent.

I just re-tested an NF-F12 which I reviewed over three years ago and the delta temp was 45.15 C. In the original review, it managed 45.10 C. As you can see, the difference is 0.05C. That's not consistent enough and therefore, I have to scrap the test rig and the project.


----------



## Loladinas

So what, you're going to call all the results invalid and build a whole new rig?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> So what, you're going to call all the results invalid and build a whole new rig?


Yeah, I mean, I can't live with those margins.


----------



## Loladinas

Sarcasm is kind of difficult to discern in written form.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Sarcasm is kind of difficult to discern in written form.


Come on. You fell for it







.


----------



## Loladinas

No! Uh... you... fell for it?


----------



## doyll

I agree. +/-0.025c is way too much.








But you are good, so it should only take a couple of days to re-test everything.








Le me know when you post the new results.









Isn't that Delta 95dB more like an electric powered RC jet?








Run it much and you will have the noise police knocking on the door!


----------



## Cyclops




----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> All the charts in the first post have been updated.


I'm in the ICU ward of the air cooling clinic reading the results. Kinda disappointed. Missed the Antec 3 pin. Would be interesting to run it for 6 months and then test it again and see how those sleeve bearings are sounding. Every single Antec sleeve bearing fan I've used has developed noisy bearings within 14-18 months. Uncanny warranty term engineering.

From your results the surprising standout was the 900rpm Noc redux. 43.4c at 32.8dB vs the Antec Two Cool 4 Skool with 42.9 at 38.5dB. Half a degree hotter, but 6dB quieter. I'll take that tradeoff.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I'm in the ICU ward of the air cooling clinic reading the results. Kinda disappointed. Missed the Antec 3 pin. Would be interesting to run it for 6 months and then test it again and see how those sleeve bearings are sounding. Every single Antec sleeve bearing fan I've used has developed noisy bearings within 14-18 months. Uncanny warranty term engineering.
> 
> From your results the surprising standout was the 900rpm Noc redux. 43.4c at 32.8dB vs the Antec Two Cool 4 Skool with 42.9 at 38.5dB. Half a degree hotter, but 6dB quieter. I'll take that tradeoff.


Yeah, P12/P14s are untouchable.


----------



## stoker

Noctua need to bring out some redux P12's


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Noctua need to bring out some redux P12's


Funny you say that. I contacted Noctua yesterday and ask them for a release date for P12 Redux. "Later this year, maybe" they said. I need 10 P12s for my own personal rig as these Corsair SP120s are just push overs.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, P12/P14s are untouchable.


TY-147A has pretty much same performance as P14 at same speed .. when tested within your limited tolerances. .


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> TY-147A has pretty much same performance as P14 at same speed .. when tested within your limited tolerances. .


Pretty much doesn't cut it with his exacting limited tolerances.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Pretty much doesn't cut it with his exacting limited tolerances.


With these rather limited standards the TY-147A is slightly warmer, but noticeably quieter than P14
While TY-147A needs a few more rpm to match P14 cooling, it does it making less noise .. to me that makes its 'mo-betta' than P14 .. even with these sloppy 0.05c tolerances .. and TY-147A is spinning fast too.


Edit: Maybe you are standing too close to the lawn mower to hear the difference.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> With these rather limited standards the TY-147A is slightly warmer, but noticeably quieter than P14
> While TY-147A needs a few more rpm to match P14 cooling, it does it making less noise .. to me that makes its 'mo-betta' than P14 .. even with these sloppy 0.05c tolerancea


Nice try, but it was the *900rpm* P14 that I mentioned, not that 1200rpm screamer that you want to slice some fur on. The *900rpm* P14, placed 2nd in the noise-to-flow lottery from Cyclops' relentless battle for specific specificity.

The beloved 147a scored a 8.205 figure of merit in the Noise-To-Temp Ratings war. The Noc P14 900rpm scored a magical 7.64. In this inverted rating system, less is more. The 147a spinning out of control at 1300+ rpm is over 6dB louder to deliver a single degree lower temp.



The moral of this story is....never let a 140mm fan spin higher than 900rpm. On a Megahalems cooling a 920 at 3.6ghz.


----------



## Loladinas

900 RPM? This is madness! I only run my fans at 350 RPM.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Nice try, but it was the *900rpm* P14 that I mentioned, not that 1200rpm screamer that you want to slice some fur on. The *900rpm* P14, placed 2nd in the noise-to-flow lottery from Cyclops' relentless battle for specific specificity.
> 
> The beloved 147a scored a 8.205 figure of merit in the Noise-To-Temp Ratings war. The Noc P14 900rpm scored a magical 7.64. In this inverted rating system, less is more. The 147a spinning out of control at 1300+ rpm is over 6dB louder to deliver a single degree lower temp.
> 
> 
> 
> The moral of this story is....never let a 140mm fan spin higher than 900rpm. On a Megahalems cooling a 920 at 3.6ghz.


Nice that you compared the Noise to Temp having Noise and Temp in mind. -Mind blown-.

By the way, GHz don't matter! Voltage does. At 1.42V, the chip is quite toasty. Draws 270W under load from the wall using a gold rated power supply. You can only get worse if you get an FX-9590 and feed it 1.5V.

PS: P12/14s might be top 3 or so, but in pull, they are number 1. Nothing gets even close. Getting good temps/noise in pull is extremely difficult.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Nice try, but it was the *900rpm* P14 that I mentioned, not that 1200rpm screamer that you want to slice some fur on. The *900rpm* P14, placed 2nd in the noise-to-flow lottery from Cyclops' relentless battle for specific specificity.
> 
> The beloved 147a scored a 8.205 figure of merit in the Noise-To-Temp Ratings war. The Noc P14 900rpm scored a magical 7.64. In this inverted rating system, less is more. The 147a spinning out of control at 1300+ rpm is over 6dB louder to deliver a single degree lower temp.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The moral of this story is....never let a 140mm fan spin higher than 900rpm. On a Megahalems cooling a 920 at 3.6ghz.


Inverted or not, it is only with fan at full speed.

You cats need to recognize what 'variable voltage' and 'PWM' fan speed control is for. I know, you still have square wheels, but there is no reason to run a fan at full speed when 99.9% of the time 50-60% is plenty of airflow .. and your fur won't get all mussed up if you use fan speed control.









[quotename="Loladinas" url="/t/1274407/fans-the-most-complete-and-comprehensive-array-of-tests-and-benchmarks/1740_20#post_25106200"]900 RPM? This is madness! I only run my fans at 350 RPM.[/quote]
The only problem with Cyclops testing is he only does full speed tests. Sad, but true.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The only problem with Cyclops testing is he only does full speed tests. Sad, but true.


Maybe you're the problem....


----------



## rtikphox

Can you review bequiet & silenx (38mm deep) fans?


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> PS: P12/14s might be top 3 or so, but in pull, they are number 1. Nothing gets even close. Getting good temps/noise in pull is extremely difficult.


Possibly a dumb question coming up, but when you say P12 are #1 in pull config I have to ask this.

How well do a mismatched fan config work in push/pull? similar rpm would be ok but what about when push has faster rpm?


----------



## Loladinas

Eh, Noctua did it with their D14. Supposedly it's a good thing, if the RPM difference isn't too large. I could see how it could help with the sound profile.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Maybe you're the problem....


That is a very myopic opinion.








It would seem your only using full speed test runs in a world where almost everyone uses speed control on their fans is more of a problem than my commenting about it.

Your full speed testing only shows how the fan performs at .. you got it .. full speed. Most users do not use their fan at full speed. They use motherboard fan headers that vary the fan speed dependent on cooling needs.

If you want to discuss this 'problem' we can discuss it. But the reality is as good as your testing is, the fact that tests are only at 100% speed limits their application to many of us who like and respect your work.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Eh, Noctua did it with their D14. Supposedly it's a good thing, if the RPM difference isn't too large. I could see how it could help with the sound profile.


Interesting, so bigger fan in pull. Hmm makes sense.

Where is microcat? v2 shroud


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Possibly a dumb question coming up, but when you say P12 are #1 in pull config I have to ask this.
> How well do a mismatched fan config work in push/pull? similar rpm would be ok but what about when push has faster rpm?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Eh, Noctua did it with their D14. Supposedly it's a good thing, if the RPM difference isn't too large. I could see how it could help with the sound profile.


I don't think different fans versus same fans in push/pull has a definitive answer. Sometimes harmonics become a problem, but it can be caused by many things besides just fans; like fin spacing, fin to fan spacing, etc. It does seem to be more of a problem when fans are pulling rather than pushing.


----------



## stoker

I know what @doyll is saying.

@Cyclops Maybe like how Martin did back in the day, test some useful rpms to compare fans easier at the same speed.

I know it takes more time, never the less we appreciate your work.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I don't think different fans versus f same fans in push/pull has a definitive answer. Sometimes harmonics become a problem, but it can be caused by many things besides just fans; like fin spacing, fin to fan spacing, etc. It does seem to be more of a problem when fans are pulling rather than pushing.


EDIT yes harmonics. So a slower pull fan restricting a faster push cause more noise? or just block the faster flowing fan?


----------



## Loladinas

Actually I can completely understand why he doesn't test at different RPM - speed of the fan is completely irrelevant. The only two metrics that are important are temperature and noise. I believe SPCR has got it right with its testing methodology. They choose a dB(A) value and test the fans calibrated to that noise level. The problem is that the same fan will have different sound properties depending on what heatsink it is mounted on, what (if any) filter/grill is in front of it and whether it's controlled by voltage or PWM, and to make it more complicated there seem to be several implementations of PWM, so you're left at the mercy of your mobo/fan controller to make sure that it plays nice with the your fans.

It's just too much work to ask from someone who's not making any money from it.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I know what @doyll
> is saying.
> 
> @Cyclops Maybe like how Martin did back in the day, test some useful rpms to compare fans easier at the same speed.
> I know it takes more time, never the less we appreciate your work.
> 
> 
> EDIT yes harmonics. So a slower pull fan restricting a faster push cause more noise? or just block the faster flowing fan?


It varies depending on what is doing / causing wha. 'Blocking the faster flowing fan' I don't understand.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Actually I can completely understand why he doesn't test at different RPM - speed of the fan is completely irrelevant. The only two metrics that are important are temperature and noise. I believe SPCR has got it right with its testing methodology. They choose a dB(A) value and test the fans calibrated to that noise level. The problem is that the same fan will have different sound properties depending on what heatsink it is mounted on, what (if any) filter/grill is in front of it and whether it's controlled by voltage or PWM, and to make it more complicated there seem to be several implementations of PWM, so you're left at the mercy of your mobo/fan controller to make sure that it plays nice with the your fans.
> 
> It's just too much work to ask from someone who's not making any money from it.


I like testing done by some using a 28-30fpi radiator with reference rpms of like 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1400rpm, etc. Or simply give data (temp or fpm @ ropm) at the lowest / idle speed, a mid-range speed (like 800rpm or 1000rpm), and full speed. Some fans excel at low speeds, others at higher speeds. Phanteks PH-F120MP & PH-F140MP both excel at lower speed .. better than most other fans, but at higher speeds they are just another member of the pack.

Like you say, almost every fan has it's own unique sound properties, harmonic points, etc. Adding PWM control creates a whole bunch more variables.

It's like you said, testing fans takes lots of time and work, especially for no pay .. and getting a couple free samples to test usually does not help much because 2x fans isn't enough fans for many applications. Heck, GPU coolers ise 2-3x 100mm fans and cases use 3-4x fans.

Cyclops does a good job. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what testing is?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rtikphox*
> 
> Can you review bequiet & silenx (38mm deep) fans?


Sure, if you can ask them to send me some samples. I've got no contacts with either company.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Cyclops does a good job. Is it perfect? Of course not. But what testing is?


Yours. According to Cyclops, claes and a few other cats, when you test our patience. Well done!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Yours. According to Cyclops, claes and a few other cats, when you test our patience. Well done!


Pot calling kettle, Mr. Black Cat.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Pot calling kettle, Mr. Black Cat.


I was trained by an expert tester.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I was trained by an expert tester.


An "ex" is a has-been. A "spurt" is a drip under pressure. So an "expert" is a has-been drip under pressure.


----------



## stoker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> It varies depending on what is doing / causing wha. 'Blocking the faster flowing fan' I don't understand.


Say for instance using my old P12's as pull with Vadars as push at higher rpm above 1400?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Say for instance using my old P12's as pull with Vadars as push at higher rpm above 1400?


Yeah..generally you want the faster running fans in pull, otherwise they get pushed rather than pulled. But, you've got 'em, so why not give 'em a go?

Then let us know about the sound of 3 SSO bearings simultaneously exploding at 1200rpm







(kidding - shouldn't explode, pretty sure)


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stoker*
> 
> Say for instance using my old P12's as pull with Vadars as push at higher rpm above 1400?


As the cat said, try it and see. Worst case is temps and noise are worse.
Best case is things improve.


----------



## Cyclops

I sent out Emails to EK, Be Quiet!, and SilenX. Your fate is out of my hands now.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #73 - Cooler Master Blade Master 120:





This is the stock fan you get with your Cooler Master Hyper 212+/Evo. Performance is fantastic in pull. It matches Corsair's SP120 while being 7 decibels quieter. The only fan that's better than it in its bracket, is the Gentle Typhoon. Performance in push is not as impressive, but it is still quite good.

At 12 bucks a pop on Newegg, I'd treat this as a poor man's Gentle Typhoon as it performs similarly but costs half as much.

On the downside, it looks pretty barebone and the cable is the usual mess of colors you see on low end fans. Sleeve bearing means it'll be quiet. For how long? Only time will tell.


----------



## edsai

Just a fix: the Blade Master OEM comes with the 212 Plus.

The Evo comes with the XtraFlo.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edsai*
> 
> Just a fix: the Blade Master OEM comes with the 212 Plus.
> 
> The Evo comes with the XtraFlo.


It's the same fan in a different dress.


----------



## edsai

It's similar, look at Mr Tot opinion here.


----------



## Cyclops

EK just agreed to send me their entire line up of fans.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fans #74 & #75 - Nexus D12SL-12PWM & Thermaltake Thunderblade AF0032

 

 

Interesting bunch of fans. They perform very closely to one another and trade punches with the venerable GTs. They both come with rubber grommets to dampen the vibration which is not a common add-on with most other fans.

My pick would be the Thermaltake, mainly because it looks marginally better with cable braiding. It is also available in three different LED trims so you'll have more options. The Nexus, however, is equipped with PWM, so if that's your thing, there you have it.

At the end of the day, if performance is your thing and they are available where you are, then both would do a decent job.


----------



## MicroCat

Wait! You're recommending a low noise cooling product that goes by the name: "THUNDER BLADE" ???









Is Thermaltake's marketing department that far out of earshot from the target demographic?

The Nexus is a decent fan, since it's a re-branded, tightly spec'd Yate Loon. Assume the THUNDER Blade is sourced from some angry cloud computing fan company.


----------



## Cyclops

They both wear sleeves, so ehhhhhhhhh.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> They both wear sleeves, so ehhhhhhhhh.


THUNDER Sleeves!


----------



## doyll

That's good news!








EK fans will be a good addition.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fans #76 & #77 - Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition CO-9050015-BLED & Bitfenix Spectre PWM:

 

 

I've tested other skus of both of these fans so you have an idea about how they might perform. They both do decently but none of them manage to stand out against the competition.

You can get the AF120s in different LED trims and the base package is okay. A pair of them cost about 16 to 19 dollars (depending on the color) on Newegg which isn't terrible value. Unlike the "premium" non-LED version though, they won't have rubber grommets or interchangeable colored rings.

As for the Spectre, at 12 bucks a pop, it's not great value, but it's a decent PWM fan that is miles better than the garbage modernized version they call Spectre Pro. Avoid those like the plague.


----------



## stoker

REP+ for Cyclops

Keep on testing


----------



## Bonjovi

Hello guys i bought this SilverStone Technology All Black Sleeved 1-to-2 Sleeved PWM Fan Splitter Cable (CPF01)


I Have http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/Rheosmart/6.html this fan controller



Max Output 30W*6

AND 12x fan. because of thet i bought it. i think 15w for per fan could be enought? SP 120MM Performance PWM 12x

or i buy this SilverStone PWM Fan Hub System Cables, Black (CPF04) ?


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fan #8 - Antec TwoCool 140:





This is a simple but effective bit of kit. The performance is very good across the range with noise to temperature rating being better than anything else that I've tested. It is to be expected though, since in low RPM mode, it spins at 750 RPM, which seems to be the sweet spot for 140mm fans. Great push performance and efficiency even in high RPM mode

Time will tell how well this will stand against other noise optimized products but for now, it's at the top. Too bad that it's so damn ugly. They gotta do something about those wires.

Oh, and there seems to be a Blue LED version available.


----------



## Loladinas

You know, you can always sleeve them yourself. Requires no special skills whatsoever.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> You know, you can always sleeve them yourself. Requires no special skills whatsoever.


i prefer fast food to cooking myself.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> i prefer fast food to cooking myself.


Ah yes, but chef cooked meal is much better .. and many do take-out.








I do agree, most of us would rather have a fan with nice stock braided leads and not have to fiddle with them.


----------



## luziiu

Thanks for your amazing effort! Just bought a set of fans for my new case based on your ratings.
4x Antec Two Cool 140 (2x intake for the front, 2x exhaust for the top)
1x Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition for exhaust on the back

Setup *should* look like this unless the case manufacturer goofed the spec sheet








Any suggestions or does it look fine to you?


I'll try to use a Lian Li PT-FN03 fan controller for the 140mm fans to regulate noise during office/browsing. I just hope I can fit it in the case nicely without too much excess wire.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luziiu*
> 
> Thanks for your amazing effort! Just bought a set of fans for my new case based on your ratings.
> 4x Antec Two Cool 140 (2x intake for the front, 2x exhaust for the top)
> 1x Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition for exhaust on the back
> 
> Setup *should* look like this unless the case manufacturer goofed the spec sheet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions or does it look fine to you?
> 
> 
> I'll try to use a Lian Li PT-FN03 fan controller for the 140mm fans to regulate noise during office/browsing. I just hope I can fit it in the case nicely without too much excess wire.


For consistency, I would always stick to one type of fan but you'll be fine. I don't know what case that is, but as long as it has the option of mounting 140mm fans, I don't see a problem.


----------



## luziiu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> For consistency, I would always stick to one type of fan but you'll be fine. I don't know what case that is, but as long as it has the option of mounting 140mm fans, I don't see a problem.


It's the Corsair 400C (I love the look but unfortunately it's got some glaring design oversights I only realized after building with it). The back only allows for a 120mm fan, otherwise I'd have used the same 140mm there as well.
Thanks for the input!


----------



## ckoons1

hey guys










I have gentle typhoons on my three radiators but I need four pure case fans (non radiator) and am wanting to know

what is the quietest case fans going? As quiet as the gentle typhoons.

Thx


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ckoons1*
> 
> hey guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have gentle typhoons on my three radiators but I need four pure case fans (non radiator) and am wanting to know
> 
> what is the quietest case fans going? As quiet as the gentle typhoons.
> 
> Thx


There are not "case fans", "cooler fans" or "radiator fans". There are just "good fans", "mediocre fans" and "bad fans" . We can add "best fans" to the list which include Gentle Typhoons.
Using GTs as case fans works great! Speed control them like radiator fans, and you will be fine .. or use low speed. I prefer to have case fan speed to cycle with components .. supplying components airflow as needed.


----------



## Lucas Lamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> There are not "case fans", "cooler fans" or "radiator fans". There are just "good fans", "mediocre fans" and "bad fans" . We can add "best fans" to the list which include Gentle Typhoons.
> Using GTs as case fans works great! Speed control them like radiator fans, and you will be fine .. or use low speed. I prefer to have case fan speed to cycle with components .. supplying components airflow as needed.


True. Fan either does a good job or it doesn't. The rest is marketing. I have 2 x PH-F140HP II as quiet case fans because they are very good in that role, and they're supposed to be fans for CPU.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucas Lamer*
> 
> True. Fan either does a good job or it doesn't. The rest is marketing. I have 2 x PH-F140HP II as quiet case fans because they are very good in that role, and they're supposed to be fans for CPU.


Indeed!








Fans are 'supposed to move air', and while some do a better job than others depending on airflow resistance they are not really single purpose. Any fan that does an outstanding job of quietly flowing air through a radiator or cooler also does an outstanding job of as a 'case fan'

I don't believe the 'supposed to be for' part of your statement.








The PH-F140HP II rounded housing with 120mm mounting is designed for air coolers, but the fan itself is same fan as PH-F140MP that is marketed for as a 'case fan' .. while it's smaller 120mm sibling (PH-F120MP) is marked as a 'radiator fan'. Phanteks do not say the PH-F140HP II is a 'cooler fan'. They say it's features are 'ideal for the densely packed fins of a heat sink'. Those same features 'make it ideal as a 'case fan' moving air through grill and filter .. probably on radiator in a square version like the PH-F140MP.

Many fans that are supplied on coolers are sold individually as 'case fans' The PH-F140HP II descriptions says;
"The PH-F140HP II, a high static pressure fan, can have the ability to overcome the airflow restriction caused by high fin density. PH-F140HP II produces high static air pressure (1.62mm h2o) allowing for a direct and focusing airflow making them ideal for the densely packed fins of a heat sink" while for PH-F120MP they say it "produces high static air pressure (1.72mm h2o) allowing for a direct and focused airflow making them ideal for the densely packed fins of a radiator." All three have good static pressure ratings .. meaning they overcome airflow resistance.. meaning they are good for most all applications.









Edit: Here is chart showing specifications


----------



## ckoons1

I guess what I was getting at is if there was a fan (120mm-black) as quiet as the gentle typhoons without the high static pressure but perhaps much less expensive.

thx


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ckoons1*
> 
> I guess what I was getting at is if there was a fan (120mm-black) as quiet as the gentle typhoons without the high static pressure but perhaps much less expensive.
> 
> thx


sure there is, just run any fan at cheap fan at low voltage and it's dead quiet. They are not going to perform all that well though. If i were to recommend some then maybe the standard yate loon fans would be a good option, or perhaps fractal design fans. the question you should be asking would be, how much air do they need to move? and what is your budget? easiest solution for you would probably just be to get more gts if performance is an issue, its not like static pressure fans cant move air in a less obstructed position.


----------



## ckoons1

thank you.

just got lucky. picked up 3 gentle typhoons 2150 for $7.50 each shipped. supposedly in good condition.


----------



## mrtbahgs

Wow Noctua has a lot of different fans and must have sent you every one or something.
I am trying to decide on a good 140mm fan to use and just now noticed that 11 of the 16 tested are Noctuas.

You seem to have a lot of 120s tested, but I dont know how much we can assume they will perform in the same brand but 140mm variety.
I guess best scenario is if they have the same model name and just bump to a 140mm design.
That'd be a touch better than just trusting the brand name alone.

I guess to clarify initially, if my plan is to only run 2 intake fans and they can be either 120 or 140mm, the 140mm would bring in more air at least at a slower/quieter setting, correct?
Once I can confirm that 140mm is what to look for, then I can try and pick out the right fan.

Newegg happens to have a 20% off code it looks like for all fans so I will likely jump on that.
I'd prefer to go with a white and/or black scheme and no LED if someone can give a recommendation as well.
From first glances the Fractal Design and Phanteks fans on Newegg seem to fit the colors very well, I just dont know how they perform compared to the 11 Noctuas or the other 5 140mm fans that were tested.
Also I think I'd prefer to keep cost under $20 each and ideally as low as possible without sacrificing too much performance since there wont be many fans.


----------



## doyll

@mrtbahgs 2x 140mm fans move as much are as 3x 120mm fans of same design. It's a simple matter of area.








Please keep in mind when looking at Cyclops' testing we only have fan performance at full speed. This is problematic for two reasons; we cannot really compare how the fans compare to each other either at same speed or in the speeds we run them in normal day to day use.

Noctua make great products, but they tend to be higher priced than others just as good .. they use their name to jack the price. Phanteks are also good fans; Thermalright are too .. and Silverstone. be quiet, etc.

Thermalright TY-147A (same as TY-140 & TY-147 except for color and rpm range .. also same as TY-143 except for color, ball bearing & rpm range) have been my go to fan for years. Sadly they do not have a square frame so are problematic in some cases (no pun). After pushing them to make a square version they are now doing it. Sadly .. again .. they have made a first production run, but have not got them packaged and released. I have several of them and love them.

Here are link to how they perform compared to Noctua and otheres
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23229617
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23348844

Here is link to adapter for 140mm mounting
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23207921

And how to square them
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23389814


----------



## mrtbahgs

Thank you @doyll that is some very useful info and I appreciate the suggested fan as it even fits the color scheme I was hoping for.

Am i understanding your link correctly in that the 140mm TY-147A (et al) is a 140mm fan but is factory made to screw into 120mm fan spacing?
That seems very strange, but wouldn't be an issue for my application since it is going into a custom case so I would just drill the mount holes at 120mm spacing, but the opening would be 140mm.
I suppose this mounting setup is because of the thin and simple frame and like you said, not square.
Perhaps other fans and manufacturers also do this too, I just don't have the experience with it so it is surprising to me.
Again it wouldn't be a problem for my particular use and I actually like the look of the fan (and wouldn't need to square it up) so it ticks a lot of boxes for me.
Sadly it doesn't seem to be for sale on Newegg where I was hoping to take advantage of an additional 20% off deal, but at least they aren't over $20 a piece.

Again, I really appreciate this suggestion, it may very well be the fans I use for my 2 intakes.

Just to toss 2 others into the mix, I did another quick newegg search and narrowed it down to a few brands at 140mm and I came up with these 2 as possible competitors.
Phanteks PH-F140XP PWM
Noctua NF-P14r redux-1500 PWM (This might also be one with 120mm mount holes and gray is close to black/white)
There were probably a couple more, but those were the 2 I looked closer at.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtbahgs*
> 
> Thank you @doyll that is some very useful info and I appreciate the suggested fan as it even fits the color scheme I was hoping for.
> 
> Am i understanding your link correctly in that the 140mm TY-147A (et al) is a 140mm fan but is factory made to screw into 120mm fan spacing?
> That seems very strange, but wouldn't be an issue for my application since it is going into a custom case so I would just drill the mount holes at 120mm spacing, but the opening would be 140mm.
> I suppose this mounting setup is because of the thin and simple frame and like you said, not square.
> Perhaps other fans and manufacturers also do this too, I just don't have the experience with it so it is surprising to me.
> Again it wouldn't be a problem for my particular use and I actually like the look of the fan (and wouldn't need to square it up) so it ticks a lot of boxes for me.
> Sadly it doesn't seem to be for sale on Newegg where I was hoping to take advantage of an additional 20% off deal, but at least they aren't over $20 a piece.
> 
> Again, I really appreciate this suggestion, it may very well be the fans I use for my 2 intakes.
> 
> Just to toss 2 others into the mix, I did another quick newegg search and narrowed it down to a few brands at 140mm and I came up with these 2 as possible competitors.
> Phanteks PH-F140XP PWM
> Noctua NF-P14r redux-1500 PWM (This might also be one with 120mm mount holes and gray is close to black/white)
> There were probably a couple more, but those were the 2 I looked closer at.


TY-147A is available on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY-147A-140-noise-emission/dp/B00S84ACJO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462641330&sr=8-1&keywords=ty-147A
Or from Nans Gaming Gear for $14.95 plus shipping. If you are getting several it may be better to by direct from Nans rather than through Amazon.
http://www.nansgaminggear.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TY-147A

Phanteks has a couple other fans of interest. Their specs show lower free airflow and higher static pressure. We don't normally use our fans in free air and I don't know of anyone who use a fan at static pressure rating. We use them with grill & filter or cooler resistance. This means a lower free alriflow to higher static pressure means the flow similar amounts of air in normal use.
PH-F140MP
http://www.phanteksusa.com/products/phanteks-ph-f140mp
PH-F140HP II; model number PH-F140HP_BK2 & PH-F140HP_WT2
http://www.phanteksusa.com/products/phanteks-ph-f140hp_bk2
http://www.phanteksusa.com/products/phanteks-ph-f140hp_wt2


----------



## mrtbahgs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ...Or from Nans Gaming Gear for $14.95 plus shipping. If you are getting several it may be better to by direct from Nans rather than through Amazon.
> http://www.nansgaminggear.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TY-147A


Yea i saw the TY-147A on Amazon and wasn't overly happy with the price, but may still get it...

I've never heard of Nans Gaming Gear before and was very happy to see it priced at $15, but found out that shipping for 2 of them was another $14 which is way too steep in my book.
I'd have to find a code or something to cut that down.

I was thinking of the more open blade design as being the typical case fan for AF and the smaller gaps being for a radiator or higher SP, but you are correct in that it will have to overcome the resistance of a grill and possibly a filter as well so I shouldn't rule out the SP looking designs.
(This may not be the right terms or true way they work, its just the way I have come to understand the differences at quick glance.)

I just noticed after taking a closer look that the Phanteks have pretty nice looking sleeved cables which will also be a plus if I end up getting the sleeving in white to blend in better with my paint or black to fit the theme.

As of now I think I am leaning towards one of the Phanteks so I can try and get the 20% off as well and save $6-8, I just need to look into which one would be best since they have multiple models.
By short naming their models it seems they have: HP II, MP, SP, and XP to look into (3 of which we already mentioned between you and I).
I also need to decide if PWM is important, I've never used one before (just done voltage regulated fan curves), but my mobo does say it has 4-pin PWM connectors so it wouldn't hurt to use that feature.

Thanks again Doyll.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtbahgs*
> 
> Yea i saw the TY-147A on Amazon and wasn't overly happy with the price, but may still get it...
> 
> I've never heard of Nans Gaming Gear before and was very happy to see it priced at $15, but found out that shipping for 2 of them was another $14 which is way too steep in my book.
> I'd have to find a code or something to cut that down.
> 
> I was thinking of the more open blade design as being the typical case fan for AF and the smaller gaps being for a radiator or higher SP, but you are correct in that it will have to overcome the resistance of a grill and possibly a filter as well so I shouldn't rule out the SP looking designs.
> (This may not be the right terms or true way they work, its just the way I have come to understand the differences at quick glance.)
> 
> I just noticed after taking a closer look that the Phanteks have pretty nice looking sleeved cables which will also be a plus if I end up getting the sleeving in white to blend in better with my paint or black to fit the theme.
> 
> As of now I think I am leaning towards one of the Phanteks so I can try and get the 20% off as well and save $6-8, I just need to look into which one would be best since they have multiple models.
> By short naming their models it seems they have: HP II, MP, SP, and XP to look into (3 of which we already mentioned between you and I).
> I also need to decide if PWM is important, I've never used one before (just done voltage regulated fan curves), but my mobo does say it has 4-pin PWM connectors so it wouldn't hurt to use that feature.
> 
> Thanks again Doyll.


Nan's Gaming Gear is the USA distributor for Thermalright. the Amazon sales are supplied by Nans.

Yes, as a general rule the denser the blade spacing the better the pressure rating. To understand airflow vs pressure and how it all works we need to look at a P/Q curve to see how pressure rating overcomes flow restrictions. In the below link from "Ways to Better Cooling" linked in my sig I try to explain how it all works
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22644574


----------



## boykisser

Can anybody suggest some quiet and effective 120mm fans that are $15 or less in US? Noise being top concern.
Thanks.


----------



## 8800GT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boykisser*
> 
> Can anybody suggest some quiet and effective 120mm fans that are $15 or less in US? Noise being top concern.
> Thanks.


I use the AF120 Quiet's.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181044&cm_re=af120-_-35-181-044-_-Product

12$ and they are pretty quiet. Keep my case cool as well. If LED's aren't your thing you can get just one with different colour rings that snap in and out.


----------



## boykisser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8800GT*
> 
> I use the AF120 Quiet's.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181044&cm_re=af120-_-35-181-044-_-Product
> 
> 12$ and they are pretty quiet. Keep my case cool as well. If LED's aren't your thing you can get just one with different colour rings that snap in and out.


Hi, thanks for replying. What do you mean by snap in and out? LEDs are definitely not my thing.


----------



## mrtbahgs

The non LED corsair AF 120s have a plastic cosmetic ring with a few colors that you can swap out to best match your theme.
Looking at a photo will let you see the ring and it will make more sense.

http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16835181021


----------



## boykisser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrtbahgs*
> 
> The non LED corsair AF 120s have a plastic cosmetic ring with a few colors that you can swap out to best match your theme.
> Looking at a photo will let you see the ring and it will make more sense.
> 
> http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16835181021


Way too expensive at $25. Kind of ridiculous that it costs more to have less features (LED).


----------



## Loladinas

That's for a pair of fans. They're not very good fans tho, but if you're aiming for a certain look over function... Eh, who are we to judge.


----------



## boykisser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> That's for a pair of fans. They're not very good fans tho, but if you're aiming for a certain look over function... Eh, who are we to judge.


Pair of non-LED still cost more than pair of LED. I just don't want my room to be a rave show when I'm asleep, not really going for any aesthetic.


----------



## Loladinas

I was going to recommend Scythe Slipstream, but whoa, are they overpriced. A couple months ago I bought three of them for 6.54€ each, locally, and they're twice that on Newegg. Arctic F12 are supposedly good as well, but I don't have any experience with them.

You could just buy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181055&cm_re=af120-_-35-181-044-_-Product as they seem to be on sale now and cut the LED wires.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boykisser*
> 
> Can anybody suggest some quiet and effective 120mm fans that are $15 or less in US? Noise being top concern.
> Thanks.


Like above, I would not use Corsair.
Look at Phanteks fans. They are quite good and $15-18.00 range.

Good fans are $15.00 and up unless you get lucky and catch a sale somewhere. Arctic F series fans are not bad. I can get them for £4-6.00 making them a good deal, but USA prices are much higher.


----------



## patriotaki

after reading this topic i still cant decide which one to get..

i want a static pressure fan with RED LED's like the corsair SP120, is there any better alternative?


----------



## Rainmaker91

a 120mm good budget fan is the Cooler Master Silencio. They perform quite well and are actually quite aggressively priced.


----------



## patriotaki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> a 120mm good budget fan is the Cooler Master Silencio. They perform quite well and are actually quite aggressively priced.


is it high static pressure one?


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patriotaki*
> 
> is it high static pressure one?


it should be, and performance wise it's up there with the EK Vardar, Noiseblocker Eloop and Scythe Gentle Typhoon. IT's available in a PWM 2400rpm edition, a PWM 1400RPM edition and a voltage regulated 1200RPM edition.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> it should be, and performance wise it's up there with the EK Vardar, Noiseblocker Eloop and Scythe Gentle Typhoon. IT's available in a PWM 2400rpm edition, a PWM 1400RPM edition and a voltage regulated 1200RPM edition.


Oh these seem interesting, and they're going for sub-8€. Although their listed spec are pretty outrageous.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Oh these seem interesting, and they're going for sub-8€. Although their listed spec are pretty outrageous.


Unfortunately there are not nearly as many reviews on them as I would like, but those that exist seem to be saying they are good. At least they seem to break from the standard Cooler Master tactics which is to lie about specs, these perform about the same as they are specified to.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Oh these seem interesting, and they're going for sub-8€. Although their listed spec are pretty outrageous.


I'm reserving judgement until we see a good testing of them, but my money is this is 'snake oil' fan advertising.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'm reserving judgement until we see a good testing of them, but my money is this is 'snake oil' fan advertising.


There are some reviews out there, make of them what you want:
http://www.overclock.net/products/cooler-master-silencio-fp-120-pwm/reviews/7265
http://www.dvtests.com/cooler-master-silencio-fp-120-3pin-and-fp-120-pwm-test-and-review/
http://www.bjorn3d.com/2016/01/cooler-master-silencio-fp-120-pwm-fan-performance-edition-r4-sfnl-24pk-r1-quiet-beast/

I would love to see a more through testing though, but it seems to me at least that at the price they are worth a try.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> There are some reviews out there, make of them what you want:
> http://www.overclock.net/products/cooler-master-silencio-fp-120-pwm/reviews/7265
> http://www.dvtests.com/cooler-master-silencio-fp-120-3pin-and-fp-120-pwm-test-and-review/
> http://www.bjorn3d.com/2016/01/cooler-master-silencio-fp-120-pwm-fan-performance-edition-r4-sfnl-24pk-r1-quiet-beast/
> 
> I would love to see a more through testing though, but it seems to me at least that at the price they are worth a try.


I hardly qualify those as reviews .. and definitely not adequate testing.

DaveLT's test doesn't have a decent reference fan to compare with. Not to mention I've seen his work before, and find it quite lacking in many respects.
DVtess is strictly open air so not being uses as we use them. Great! stick a fan in a rack with nothing restricting the airflow as a test for computer use. Thanks, but no thanks.








Bjorn is running 6x fans with a free airlfow noise level spec of 27dBA and getting a noise level reading of 34.2dBA. Science says 6x fans making same noise each increases the overal sound level by 7.781513dBA. That means 6x 27dBA fan on a bench would be making 34.58dBA. But here we have a case of grills, filters, GPU, etc all making or increasing the noise level with a test reading below mathimatical calulation for open air. Sorry, but it sure reaks of snake oil to me.








Simply put, these are not really tests but more smoke and mirror advertising.

We need to see what some of the credible testers like Cyclops, ehume, geggeg of Thermalbench, CoolingTechniques, SPPC, SPCR or similar say.


----------



## VSG

I would, except Cooler Master always finds ways to avoid sending them despite emails and phone calls of promises


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I hardly qualify those as reviews .. and definitely not adequate testing.
> 
> DaveLT's test doesn't have a decent reference fan to compare with. Not to mention I've seen his work before, and find it quite lacking in many respects.
> DVtess is strictly open air so not being uses as we use them. Great! stick a fan in a rack with nothing restricting the airflow as a test for computer use. Thanks, but no thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bjorn is running 6x fans with a free airlfow noise level spec of 27dBA and getting a noise level reading of 34.2dBA. Science says 6x fans making same noise each increases the overal sound level by 7.781513dBA. That means 6x 27dBA fan on a bench would be making 34.58dBA. But here we have a case of grills, filters, GPU, etc all making or increasing the noise level with a test reading below mathimatical calulation for open air. Sorry, but it sure reaks of snake oil to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply put, these are not really tests but more smoke and mirror advertising.
> 
> We need to see what some of the credible testers like Cyclops, ehume, geggeg of Thermalbench, CoolingTechniques, SPPC, SPCR or similar say.


I agree, we really do need some proper tests, but those were the only that even comes close to a review that I could find. That said they MIGHT be good. Won't know for sure until someone actually does a decent review and compares them to others. I don't have the references and equipment to do a proper one, other wise I would have ordered a couple to do it a long time ago.


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> 120mm Fan #73 - Cooler Master Blade Master 120:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the stock fan you get with your Cooler Master Hyper 212+/Evo. Performance is fantastic in pull. It matches Corsair's SP120 while being 7 decibels quieter. The only fan that's better than it in its bracket, is the Gentle Typhoon. Performance in push is not as impressive, but it is still quite good.
> 
> At 12 bucks a pop on Newegg, I'd treat this as a poor man's Gentle Typhoon as it performs similarly but costs half as much.
> 
> On the downside, it looks pretty barebone and the cable is the usual mess of colors you see on low end fans. Sleeve bearing means it'll be quiet. For how long? Only time will tell.


Just a fix: the Blademaster are actually rifle bearing fans.

Source: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/19383-cooler-master-hyper-212-plus-cpu-cooler-review-5.html


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> I would, except Cooler Master always finds ways to avoid sending them despite emails and phone calls of promises


Which begs the question; why supply to reviewers who do lousy testing and not to reviewers who do good testing.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> I agree, we really do need some proper tests, but those were the only that even comes close to a review that I could find. That said they MIGHT be good. Won't know for sure until someone actually does a decent review and compares them to others. I don't have the references and equipment to do a proper one, other wise I would have ordered a couple to do it a long time ago.


I hear you loud and clear.
I MIGHT win the lotto too, but odds are against it.








If you have a few good fans, a good cooler and a hot CPU, all you need is a sound meter and an indoor / outdoor thermometer. You can get a sound meter less than $10; with computer interface and software its about $25 and thermometer hygrometers are from $1.70 to $8.00. No idea what one with computer interface is but would get min 20s. Manual works fine.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Which begs the question; why supply to reviewers who do lousy testing and not to reviewers who do good testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you loud and clear.
> I MIGHT win the lotto too, but odds are against it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a few good fans, a good cooler and a hot CPU, all you need is a sound meter and an indoor / outdoor thermometer. You can get a sound meter less than $10; with computer interface and software its about $25 and thermometer hygrometers are from $1.70 to $8.00. No idea what one with computer interface is but would get min 20s. Manual works fine.


I'm not buying all the equipment to do objective measurements, but I'll probably pick up a fan to see what they sound like







Got me curious and all that.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> We need to see what some of the credible testers like Cyclops, ehume, geggeg of Thermalbench, CoolingTechniques, SPPC, SPCR or similar say.


I... I... I'm... I'm... credible?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edsai*
> 
> Just a fix: the Blademaster are actually rifle bearing fans.
> 
> Source: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/19383-cooler-master-hyper-212-plus-cpu-cooler-review-5.html


http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/case-fan/blade-master-120/

Horses mouth says Sleeve. Not that it matters in a 2000 RPM fan.

At any rate, rifle bearing is considered superior to sleeve:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_fan#Bearing_types


----------



## Cyclops

ASUS used to make these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835101020










And Thermaltake, these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106114


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I... I... I'm... I'm... credible?


Indeed you are!.








Just don't let our hat size get any bigger.


----------



## edsai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I... I... I'm... I'm... credible?


Well, not only the charts here are great but I'm also pretty like to read your thoughts and impressions.

Your tests here are definitively useful and interesting.

Thanks a lot for your time and efforts!


----------



## Cyclops




----------



## rtikphox

Why did you remove the 140mm fans? the Yate Loons?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rtikphox*
> 
> Why did you remove the 140mm fans? the Yate Loons?


I tested those on the old test Rig. I'm testing all 120 and 140mm fans on a single test bench now, and I haven't gone over Yates, yet. The old test results are available on post #3.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ckoons1*
> 
> hey guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have gentle typhoons on my three radiators but I need four pure case fans (non radiator) and am wanting to know
> 
> what is the quietest case fans going? As quiet as the gentle typhoons.
> 
> Thx


Another good reference for case fans is http://www.silentpcreview.com/section12.html. Jump to the last page of any 120/140mm fan round up. They also have recordings which can give you an idea wether the sound is ok - apart from the measured sound levels.

I'm personally very happy with my Scythe Glidestreams (up to 1300rpm). Very pleasent tonally, no motor/bearing type noises (much less than the GTs).


----------



## marn3us

Hey guys, I need a 140mm very quiet case fan (for exhaust in my Prodigy) and a friend of mine could give me a Fractal Design Dynamic GP-14 for 5$ since he doesn't use it.

Is it a good fan? And, more importantly, is it very quiet?

Thanks in advance


----------



## patriotaki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Hey guys, I need a 140mm very quiet case fan (for exhaust in my Prodigy) and a friend of mine could give me a Fractal Design Dynamic GP-14 for 5$ since he doesn't use it.
> 
> Is it a good fan? And, more importantly, is it very quiet?
> 
> Thanks in advance


I think they are low rpm fans..but I'm not sure..

Have a look at the alpenfohn wingboost2 they have over 60cfm and 19dbA







1500rpm the 120mm one


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Hey guys, I need a 140mm very quiet case fan (for exhaust in my Prodigy) and a friend of mine could give me a Fractal Design Dynamic GP-14 for 5$ since he doesn't use it.
> 
> Is it a good fan? And, more importantly, is it very quiet?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Do you even need an exhaust fan?
What are your component temps, load and fan speed now?
With good intake fans there is often no need for exhaust fans. Same principle as coolers with a good front fan not having any need for a rear fan.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Do you even need an exhaust fan?
> What are your component temps, load and fan speed now?
> With good intake fans there is often no need for exhaust fans. Same principle as coolers with a good front fan not having any need for a rear fan.


Right now I still haven't got my 780 so the only heat producing component in my prodigy is an overclocked 6600K, which runs extremely cool thanks to the DRP3 and the front AP182.

I will wait till I get the 780 and then do some testings with different fans









I just wanted to know whether the GP-14 would be a good option in case I needed an exhaust fan or if it's a terrible fan and I should keep away from it


----------



## patriotaki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Right now I still haven't got my 780 so the only heat producing component in my prodigy is an overclocked 6600K, which runs extremely cool thanks to the DRP3 and the front AP182.
> 
> I will wait till I get the 780 and then do some testings with different fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to know whether the GP-14 would be a good option in case I needed an exhaust fan or if it's a terrible fan and I should keep away from it


i checked the gp14 , its a good and silent fan , 1000rpm with 18dba and 60+cfm since you are going to use it as an exhaust fan , i say take it its only 5$ , its not worth spending alot of money for exhaust fans IMO









will this be as an extra exhaust fan or will you replace a current fan>?


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *patriotaki*
> 
> i checked the gp14 , its a good and silent fan , 1000rpm with 18dba and 60+cfm since you are going to use it as an exhaust fan , i say take it its only 5$ , its not worth spending alot of money for exhaust fans IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> will this be as an extra exhaust fan or will you replace a current fan>?


It will replace the current Bitfenix stock 120mm fan that came with the Prodigy if my tests show that I need good exhaust power (I'd rather get a slow spinning 140 than a faster spinning 120 to move the same amount of air)


----------



## patriotaki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> It will replace the current Bitfenix stock 120mm fan that came with the Prodigy if my tests show that I need good exhaust power (I'd rather get a slow spinning 140 than a faster spinning 120 to move the same amount of air)


take the gp14


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Hey guys, I need a 140mm very quiet case fan (for exhaust in my Prodigy) and a friend of mine could give me a Fractal Design Dynamic GP-14 for 5$ since he doesn't use it.
> 
> Is it a good fan? And, more importantly, is it very quiet?
> 
> Thanks in advance


I have a couple that came with the Define S run ~800 rpm at full speed - and I'm impressed: Extremely quiet and nothing annoying in motor/bearing noises - so $5 is a steal.
Best thing is if you can hear them run. Many hyped fans that I tried (mostly in 120mm) were utterly disappointing. With the move to 140s.. the EK Vardars 140mm have also totally impressed me.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Hey guys, I need a 140mm very quiet case fan (for exhaust in my Prodigy) and a friend of mine could give me a Fractal Design Dynamic GP-14 for 5$ since he doesn't use it.
> 
> Is it a good fan? And, more importantly, is it very quiet?
> 
> Thanks in advance


As much as I love their cases, Fractal Define fans have been a disappointment. Myself and almost everyone I've talked to about case airflow have changed the stock fans to something that has better P/Q curve. It's a combination of their low pressure rating and low rpm not being able to overcome the resistance of grill or grill and filter. A stock punched metal grill like back of case blocks 20-60% of vent area.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22657923

Compound this with the turbulence created as airflow passes the meshs' squared edges vs a round wire grill and the resistance is increased even more (which is why more and more of us are removing grills).


----------



## marn3us

My case has hexagonal rear fan grille, isn't that slightly better for airflow resistance?


----------



## doyll

Yes, Hex / honeycomb pattern is better .. usually significantly better than round hole. Still, the combined resistance of grill and turbulence is always significant. Everyone I know who has removed grills (many hex pattern ones) get better temps with lower noise. I wish I had kept a list of links to posts people have made about this. As it is I only have one person's handy.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1547358/feedback-r5-airflow/0_20#post_23912336
http://www.overclock.net/t/1547358/feedback-r5-airflow/20_20#post_23946645
ehume preaches grill removal as much as I do.









Link in my above (scroll down) shows grill patterns and sizes with open area of each. You can measure your grill hole and spacing to determine it's size. If it's not one on that list, tell me what it is and I've probably got the specs.


----------



## marn3us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Yes, Hex / honeycomb pattern is better .. usually significantly better than round hole. Still, the combined resistance of grill and turbulence is always significant. Everyone I know who has removed grills (many hex pattern ones) get better temps with lower noise. I wish I had kept a list of links to posts people have made about this. As it is I only have one person's handy.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1547358/feedback-r5-airflow/0_20#post_23912336
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1547358/feedback-r5-airflow/20_20#post_23946645
> ehume preaches grill removal as much as I do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link in my above (scroll down) shows grill patterns and sizes with open area of each. You can measure your grill hole and spacing to determine it's size. If it's not one on that list, tell me what it is and I've probably got the specs.


Thank you very much for your advice, I would have never thought a simple fan grille could have been so obstructive!

Anyways I'll have to think carefully before removing my rear grille since I am not very keen on modding my cases (for future "resellability") since I love changing components


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marn3us*
> 
> Thank you very much for your advice, I would have never thought a simple fan grille could have been so obstructive!
> 
> Anyways I'll have to think carefully before removing my rear grille since I am not very keen on modding my cases (for future "resellability") since I love changing components


In all honesty I don't cut out the grills on all the cases I use for the same reasons, only the ones I plan on keeping long term.

With good fans we can sacrifice some airflow, live with a little higher sound level and still have everything we need.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> In all honesty I don't cut out the grills on all the cases I use for the same reasons, only the ones I plan on keeping long term.
> 
> With good fans we can sacrifice some airflow, live with a little higher sound level and still have everything we need.


Whoah! You don't practice what you preach. Shocking!









Time to start the airflow revolution. Everyone who cuts out the restrictive grille should be able to add a 10-15% premium on the resale value. Better, quieter performance without the extra labour or blood. It's a FEATURE! It's a performance benefit! It increases value, not diminishes it.

We need the Green machine marketeers to handle used modded cases:

For Sale: R5 Unrestricted Edition.


----------



## reev3r

I see that the topic of vibration dampening has come up recently.

I actually have two methods of resolving this potential problem...

Method number 1:

If you go to a local hardware store, or Home Depot/Menards, etc; you can't sometimes find small rubber sheets, they are very inexpensive. The one that I was able to find are almost exactly the size of a 120mm fan, and the reason that I purchased the initially was to act as a dampened for the fan itself, however, I switched to 140mm fans shortly thereafter so that was not possible. That being said, they could easily be cut to work as a damper for the screws themselves.

Method number 2:

This method is much more accessible to everyone, as not all stores carry the correct material for method 1, some stores carry a much, MUCH harder rubber material that *might* work, but probably not as well... This method can be done any of several ways, personally I use black silicone sealant. You could also use caulk, RTV, gasket compound, or any of a number of materials. Basically you just push out enough material to make the number of 'gaskets' that you need, and then simply flatten it out as thin as you want/need to. There are three ways to make the hole:

Method 1 requires that the sheet be made relatively thin. This method is to simply leave the material as-is until it cures, then peel up the sheet, poke a hole itto it, and force the screw through the hole.

Method 2: After you flatten the uncured compound, you simply use a disassembled Bic pen (the small top end) and push it into the compound so that it stays there after you remove it.

Method 3:Use anything that works to remove a small amount of material to make a hole.

After doing this, just let the material cure, and you should end up with a nice, soft gasket to dampen the vibrations from the fans.

Additionally, I also have a simple way to make excellent and low-cost dust filters for intake fans.. Simply go to the crafts/fabric section at Walmart or any craft store (Walmart is generally much less expensive though) and buy any fabric that breathes well and is whatever color your case is, or really whatever color you like... You can simply cut the fabric to be the size that is needed, use a scissors to cut a small slit orhole in the fabric at each screw location. Then you can either put the fabric outside the case held in place by the screws, or alternatively (and more optimally) apply it between the case and the fan itself. Cleaning the filters is easily accomplished by using a vacuum to suck up the dust. Just be sure that you hold the fan blades in place to prevent it from spinning as this will generate electrical current that can damage the fan header and/or the SuperIO chip that controls the fans.

If anybody needs any additional information about any of these tips, please feel free to reply and I will do my best to respond promptly.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> In all honesty I don't cut out the grills on all the cases I use for the same reasons, only the ones I plan on keeping long term.
> 
> With good fans we can sacrifice some airflow, live with a little higher sound level and still have everything we need.


Real men cut out whatever they want, whenever they want. Compromises are for scrubs







Although after cutting out the grill I didn't really notice any difference in my current setup. The case I gave away to my buddy, however, got so much quieter, it's not even funny. Mine had a hex pattern grill, the other case had round stamped holes, so there's that.


----------



## doyll

@MicroCat You long tailed cats are all a bunch of radicals.









@reev3r Interesting ideas!








I prefer rubber/silicone screws or rubber grommet and metal screw.

Rubber/silicone screws are the ones we pull into case hole and fan hole. They give vibration absorption on both sides of case and fan holes. 




Rubber grommet vibration dampners are like this: 




If you don't want to buy special one, they can be made from electrical grommets like this http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/keystone-electronics/736/36-736-ND/316717 and used with normal fan screws.
Both require case fan holes to be enlarged.

@Loladinas
Using a little higher performance fan often overcomes grill resistance. And we know qualtiy cases with the big honeycomb / hex pattern grill mesh flow way more air the round hole grills. too.


----------



## Loladinas

What's curious to me why so few case manufacturers sell cases (AFAIK it's only Lian-Li and "boutique" manufacturers at this point) with no/wire grill. What's the cost difference in stamping a grill out vs. cutting a hole and throwing in a wire grill as an accessory anyway? Is it too much to expect you won't need to take tin snips to your case to get the most out of it, when you've paid a 100€ or so for it?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> What's curious to me why so few case manufacturers sell cases (AFAIK it's only Lian-Li and "boutique" manufacturers at this point) with no/wire grill. What's the cost difference in stamping a grill out vs. cutting a hole and throwing in a wire grill as an accessory anyway? Is it too much to expect you won't need to take tin snips to your case to get the most out of it, when you've paid a 100€ or so for it?


Why, yes it is. The BOM cost is worked down to the penny in most cases (pun alert) and because of stooopid design fashion trends, old skool wire grills are seen as an artifact of a previous century. Even if it is far more efficient. So two strikes against function over form. Don't even get me started on the companies that stick molded plastic grilles over top of stamped metal grilles for added 'cool' design factor.


----------



## Cyclops

Speaking of fan grils... here's a bad one:



GPU was hitting 100C without a gril. 82C after adding that 15mm thick Gelid fan and that filter plus the raised rubber feet.



Tight package required a CLC







.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> What's curious to me why so few case manufacturers sell cases (AFAIK it's only Lian-Li and "boutique" manufacturers at this point) with no/wire grill. What's the cost difference in stamping a grill out vs. cutting a hole and throwing in a wire grill as an accessory anyway? Is it too much to expect you won't need to take tin snips to your case to get the most out of it, when you've paid a 100€ or so for it?


I think SilverStone still uses wire ring grilles.

What that cat character said.








It's not the almighty dollar, it's the almighty penny!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Speaking of fan grils... here's a bad one:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GPU was hitting 100C without a gril. 82C after adding that 15mm thick Gelid fan and that filter plus the raised rubber feet.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tight package required a CLC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Good one. Yeah, I found having more bottom clearance not only increased airflow but lowered noise too. Airflow area of a 140mm fan is about the same as 40mm spacing. http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22657923


----------



## xTesla1856

Sorry for not reading through the entire thread, I'm just gonna ask my question: What fans do you recommend for a Corsair Air 540? The case is a bit echo-y so my Silent Wings 2 140mm make more noise than I'd like. I was thinking of Nocuta 140mm's and then 120mm's for my H100i. Thanks for the help


----------



## MicroCat

Silent Wings 2 140mm are among the quietest medium speed fans. However, they don't have great static pressure and the 540 intake grilles/filters are quite restrictive, which results in more noise and less airflow.

Higher static pressure Nocs/TR/Phanteks/EK 140 fans will be better, but consider some intake grille modding/filter replacements. When working on Corsair cases I prefer chainsaws and hammers, but I live in the woods. Otherwise...

As a quick test, remove the intake filters and see if the noise is reduced to acceptable levels. Not a fan of corsair dust filters/grilles. SPCR did a test of the Corsair dust filters and measured a 53% reduction in air flow. Ouch!


----------



## doyll

What that cat just said.









As nice as the 540 looks it is seems to be more of an amplified echo box with restrictive fan mounts, grills and filters. Very hard to get one flowing properly and quietly.

Mr. Cat, did SPCR do filter test comparison? If so, do you have the link handy?


----------



## Elrick

Just need to know from anyone here in this section, is this a worthwhile purchase for any PC Case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1DR-0003-00019

First time I've seen it but very little info anywhere about it's real fan noise and through put.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Just need to know from anyone here in this section, is this a worthwhile purchase for any PC Case?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1DR-0003-00019
> 
> First time I've seen it but very little info anywhere about it's real fan noise and through put.


Considering how long it has been on the market with so little info and reviews my gut tells me it's hype.

Normally if a product is good we see reviews and testing data backing up manufacturer concurrent with release with more showing up within a few months. Google shows it's been around for at least 23 months.

Quit looking for strange fans and go with one with a track record showing quality and performance.

They seem to be like your avatar; I do't like either of them.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quit looking for strange fans and go with one with a track record showing quality and performance.
> 
> They seem to be like your avatar; I do't like either of them.


Can't help myself for choosing the weird ones here.

Although my Avatar might well be your future Commander in Chief, did it as a joke but now he's grown on me like a fungus and it's hard to let go of him now.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Can't help myself for choosing the weird ones here.
> 
> Although my Avatar might well be your future Commander in Chief, did it as a joke but now he's grown on me like a fungus and it's hard to let go of him now.


I used to wonder how Hiltler got German citizens to elect him. Now it's all too obvious.


----------



## miklkit

Well, he got the fungus part right. I got a case of jungle rot decades ago and it took a full 4 years to get rid of it.

Tesle: You should go to the first post of this thread and check out the charts. I recommend the 2nd one with blue and red bars and the "pull" section. You want intake fans behind filters and that means you want pull performance. Push means nothing in your case.

You will find that there are a bunch of 120mm fans that out perform the 140mm fans suggesting that you would be better off with 3-120s than with 2-140s. Three Gentle Typhoons might be just what you want.


----------



## doyll

As bad as jungle rot is, I'm afraid this fungus amungus would be more problematic than your jungle rot was.


----------



## miklkit

So when are the English going to ban that fungus from the British Isles? The way it's going around insulting everybody methinks it wouldn't even take 6 months to start WWIII.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> So when are the English going to ban that fungus from the British Isles? The way it's going around insulting everybody methinks it wouldn't even take 6 months to start WWIII.


As your reply indicates you are 'rump supporter, I guess there is little chance of logical discussion to be had.


----------



## Cyclops

Let's keep this one on topic please.


----------



## Cyclops

140mm Fans #9 & #10 - Noctua NF-A14 FLX and Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-2000 IP67 PWM

 

 

These two are the 3rd and 4th models of NF-A14 that I've reviewed. What's changed? Packaging and RPM.

The blade design is excellent and can supply an ample amount of static pressure. The drawback is that in pull, it gets really whiny, and annoying. It's not as bad when you run the fan at a lower RPM, which lets face it, most enthusiasts do, and being PWM controlled, the fan curve is quite customizable.

In an ideal quiet scenario, you'd want to run these at around 800 RPM, which will be the sweet spot for airflow to noise ratio. With the ULNA, it drops to about 900 RPM which is still audible, but acceptable. The standard retail version has some of the best noise to temperature ratio of any 140mm fan with the use of noise reducing adapters.

They are pretty much the same fans you get with a NH-D15 cooler (NF-A15) but with a square bracket, suitable for watercooling applications. Apart from the colors and the cable, there's not much else Noctua could do to improve them.

*Approved.*


----------



## reev3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @MicroCat You long tailed cats are all a bunch of radicals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @reev3r Interesting ideas!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer rubber/silicone screws or rubber grommet and metal screw.
> 
> Rubber/silicone screws are the ones we pull into case hole and fan hole. They give vibration absorption on both sides of case and fan holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rubber grommet vibration dampners are like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't want to buy special one, they can be made from electrical grommets like this http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/keystone-electronics/736/36-736-ND/316717 and used with normal fan screws.
> Both require case fan holes to be enlarged.


Those are the 'stock/default' methods of accomplishing noise dampening, as you are most certainly aware, and as such (in most circumstances, unless they were included with fans that you had already planned to purchase) they tend to be the more expensive methods, and all things considered, they are significantly more expensive if the dampeners are/were not included with the fans you plan to use... That being said, the methods that I go over are for the people out there that are either on a budget, refuse to pay the ridiculous amounts that are asked for those tiny [email protected] pieces of rubber that cost under a penny to manufacture, or (like me) simply prefer to accomplish things via the DIY methodology in order to truly make a custom rig that has a surprising number of customizations implemented, many of which are well hidden and not very noticeable, indeed, some of them are so well done that they look equal to, or better than their retail counterparts...

One of my favorite mods was to remove the ball & socket retention mechanisms for the doors and side panels on my Magnum STH10 case and replacing them all with a magnetic system of retention. Basically I bought a ton of rare earth neodymium magnets (ranging from N40-N52, with N35, I believe, being the least powerful, and N52 being the most powerful), so that the doors (the main compartment side panels are on hinges, both from and rear) can easily be opened by simply gently pulling on the handle, and effectively the same thing for all of the slotted basement and 'attic' slotted/vented side panels, but instead of being hinged, they easily just pop right off. This was an absolute NECESSITY for me, I started working out a method to do away with the ball & socket system before I even purchased the case, after watching some youtube videos for assembly of the case (It comes packaged as a 'flat-pack' in order to save on shipping costs - as the case when assembled is larger than most of the boxes for most assembled cases lol, it's HUGE), and also for reviews, and in every single video there was one common theme, they were all having difficulties with the side panels and doors... When they would try to pull them open, they had to pull incredibly hard, which would inevitably cause them to pull the door way too far open and occasionally hit something, and the side panels were also an issue, because one side would pop off, causing the panel to twist badly while the other end was still locked in place, and trying to get your fingers in there to pry off the panels, YeahNo... Anyhow, so many problems with their current (CaseLabs) system of retention on their cases. I actually contacted them in order to suggest to them that they switch to a different retention system for their cases, in which I suggested that they implement magnetic panels/doors, or something, ANYTHING other than the current system they've chosen to implement... Now, with all of my complaining aside, yes, you can bend the metal retention clips in order to provide a less rigid grasp on the 'ball', however, this generally leads to a very loose grasp, either causing the panels to rattle, or to even fall off with any unintentional bump, which then requires re-adjusting, and on and on, because getting them just right is nigh impossible. I attempted to for about a week, just to be sure that I was foregoing a superior method without giving my best effort to implement it correctly... Alas, I gave up after finding it to be far too much of a PITA!!!

Anyway, I totally got distracted by my _glorious_ casemods... lol

Needless to say, I am pretty well against paying money for something that I can (usually) do better myself at home for, typically speaking, a significantly lower cost...
My apologies for the unintentional length of this reply, I got carried away with my glorious stories of personal accomplishment and grandeur!!! ;-)

Please forgive me...


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What that cat just said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As nice as the 540 looks it is seems to be more of an amplified echo box with restrictive fan mounts, grills and filters. Very hard to get one flowing properly and quietly.
> 
> Mr. Cat, did SPCR do filter test comparison? If so, do you have the link handy?


It's buried in one of their gaming builds - they hit a thermal and sonic wall with a build in an Air 240 (the 540's little sister).
Here's the grille resistance test: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1430-page10.html - It was a 53% drop in exhaust flow and 40% drop in intake flow with stock filters.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reev3r*
> 
> Those are the 'stock/default' methods of accomplishing noise dampening, as you are most certainly aware, and as such (in most circumstances, unless they were included with fans that you had already planned to purchase) they tend to be the more expensive methods, and all things considered, they are significantly more expensive if the dampeners are/were not included with the fans you plan to use... That being said, the methods that I go over are for the people out there that are either on a budget, refuse to pay the ridiculous amounts that are asked for those tiny [email protected] pieces of rubber that cost under a penny to manufacture, or (like me) simply prefer to accomplish things via the DIY methodology in order to truly make a custom rig that has a surprising number of customizations implemented, many of which are well hidden and not very noticeable, indeed, some of them are so well done that they look equal to, or better than their retail counterparts...
> 
> Please forgive me...


No forgiveness here mate.









They are not expensive if you look in the right places.
20pcs rubber silicone PC fan ant-vibration mounts that pull into case and fan can be had for as little as £2.54 on ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20PCS-Rubber-Silicone-PC-Fan-Anti-Vibration-Mount-Rivet-Noise-Absorbtion-Screw-/252034453070?hash=item3aae6c8e4e:g:rLwAAOSwDNdVr2zb

My suggestion of electrical grommets is very low cost.
I've not seen them used stock in cases, but Fractal Design uses them in special slotted holes for HDD mounts.
Grommets dirt cheap. You can buy 50x for £1.94 on ebay (less than silicone tube costs) Choose a grommet with hole fan screw fits through).
Most fan screws are long enough to work so no additional expense.
Using a grommet in in this way isolated screw and fan from case inside of case hole as well as on both sides of case panel. We all know if any part of vibrating object touches what it's mounted to, it's vibration is transmitted to what its is mounted to. .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> It's buried in one of their gaming builds - they hit a thermal and sonic wall with a build in an Air 240 (the 540's little sister).
> Here's the grille resistance test: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1430-page10.html - It was a 53% drop in exhaust flow and 40% drop in intake flow with stock filters.


Yeah, I had seen that one.

Obviously "grill / filter restriction" is relative to fan's airflow and resistance abilities, In other words 'good' fans with 'good' static pressure rating will flow much highter percent airflow then 'poor' fans. I know you know I know you know this, but others reading this may not know this.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> In other words 'good' fans with 'good' static pressure rating will flow much highter percent airflow then 'poor' fans


And they'll sound like a hairdryer while they're at it. All grills must die! Death to restrictive grills!


----------



## doyll

@Cyclops

Looks like TY-147A and NF-A14 are near identical at same rpm with a reasonable margin of error except for TY-147A being a little quieter. Other results appear that at most the TY-147A is maybe a itty-bitty bit better.

I took the liberty of combining TY-147A and NF-A14 data. Hope you don't mind.



@Loladinas

Is there a correlation between goatee length and radicalization?
I have a beard and length seems to make no differnece.


----------



## patriotaki

is this a good fan to put in front of my case?

Lepa LPBOL12P Red

http://www.skroutz.gr/s/5478757/Lepa-LPBOL12P-Red.html


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @Cyclops
> 
> Looks like TY-147A and NF-A14 are near identical at same rpm with a reasonable margin of error except for TY-147A being a little quieter. Other results appear that at most the TY-147A is maybe a itty-bitty bit better.
> 
> I took the liberty of combining TY-147A and NF-A14 data. Hope you don't mind.


It's fine, they're both good fans. It's just that you can't use a 147A on a radiator. Thermalright is allergic to 140mm fans with 140mm mounting holes it seems.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> It's fine, they're both good fans. It's just that you can't use a 147A on a radiator. Thermalright is allergic to 140mm fans with 140mm mounting holes it seems.


And for regional accuracy:

It's just that you can't use a 147A on a radiator in Canada. Thermalright is allergic to selling 140mm any fans in Canada.

Added truth-in-distribution statements.


----------



## Cyclops

Feel the burn, the charcoal and the resulting forest fire.


----------



## VSG

Canada too cool for Thermalright fans. More ways than one.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Canada too cool for Thermalright fans. More ways than one.


Oh...Cross-border burn.


----------



## Ceadderman

Anyone know of a good *cheap* 60mm PWM fan? Emphasis on cheap.

I have a couple GPU heatsinks that allow 60mm fans to be mounted to them. I want PWM capability to run them off my GPUs. Noctuas are ugly and their RPM range is too high for quiet operation.










~Ceadder


----------



## patriotaki

is this fan any good?
http://www.skroutz.gr/s/5478757/Lepa-LPBOL12P-Red.html


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ceadderman*
> 
> Anyone know of a good *cheap* 60mm PWM fan? Emphasis on cheap.
> 
> I have a couple GPU heatsinks that allow 60mm fans to be mounted to them. I want PWM capability to run them off my GPUs. Noctuas are ugly and their RPM range is too high for quiet operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Ceadder


In the realm of 60mm PWM fans, the Nocs are slow (3000rpm? Pfft - actually 2300rpm with LNA) and quiet. Every other 60mm PWM fan I'm aware of are server screamers - 4500 to 7200rpm range, many that _start_ at 3000rpm. Consider getting a couple cheap AC F8 80mm PWM and some duct tape. Or get the server fans and some ear plugs. Or get the Nocs and a sharpie.









Here's the list at the egg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?N=100007998%20600035575%20600035674&IsNodeId=1&Submit=ENE

And the cooler guys: http://www.coolerguys.com/60.html


----------



## Cyclops

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200072

4 fans for 10 bucks. Quality? Well....


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200072
> 
> 4 fans for 10 bucks. Quality? Well....


Are you going to be testing those high end units? Although what would be the point - who'd spend $2.50 on fan??? That's just crazy indulgent.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Are you going to be testing those high end units? Although what would be the point - who'd spend $2.50 on fan??? That's just crazy indulgent.


Eh, there are F12 five-packs going for $21, $4.20 per fan, and those aren't too bad.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Are you going to be testing those high end units? Although what would be the point - who'd spend $2.50 on fan??? That's just crazy indulgent.


I tested the four pack Cooler Master units that went for the same price a long time ago. I can tell you that they are not 10 times worse than fans costing 25 dollars. In fact, for a cheap cheap build, they are better than nothing.


----------



## MicroCat

My fav 120mm for cheap(ish) builds is the Rosewill Apache rebrand: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200068 - it's a little buzzy over 1k rpm, but prefer it to the F12s I've used. Altho they just raised the price to $10.99 each, so probably only for those who own their own home. Haven't checked if newegg has a leasing plan for them.


----------



## patriotaki

is this fan good for intake in front of the case?

http://www.skroutz.gr/s/5478757/Lepa-LPBOL12P-Red.html


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Are you going to be testing those high end units? Although what would be the point - who'd spend $2.50 on fan??? That's just crazy indulgent.
> 
> 
> 
> I tested the four pack Cooler Master units that went for the same price a long time ago. I can tell you that they are not 10 times worse than fans costing 25 dollars. In fact, for a cheap cheap build, they are better than nothing.
Click to expand...

I used them on 2 rads. Worked quite well actually. Pretty quiet but didn't push much air, can't get everything. The Arctic Cooling F12's are pretty good IMHO. Definitely the best option for me at $20 for 5 fans... I actually ended up getting the PWM version F12 for $7.50 for my CPU cooler...still a darn good deal. They make a noticeable noise when up against a fan grill or fins but are very quiet when they've got a spacer between the fan and whatever it is your moving air through.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm fan #78 - Masscool FD12025B1L3-4:





At 7 bucks a pop on Newegg, it won't break the bank but the performance isn't anything to write home about. It's decent in pull, but overall, it's in the middle of the pack.

Just another item to add to the pile.


----------



## Curleyyy

I'm looking at the new Noctua NF-F12 series lineup and I still can't make my mind up.

- The 3000 RPM series has both 12 volt and 24 volt
- The 140mm variant produces 10.52mm/H20, where the 120mm produces 7.63mm/H20.

Q. I've read that 12 volt models are limited to 1500 RPM (Yet it says 3000?)
Q. I was under the impression that 140mm was meant to have lower SP than 120mm.

Q. Is there a fan that doesn't cost $35 and performs just as good, 'cause that benchmark on page one says not really,
then again the dBA is huge compared to the other fans that are on there near a similar temperature.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I'm looking at the new Noctua NF-F12 series lineup and I still can't make my mind up.
> 
> - The 3000 RPM series has both 12 volt and 24 volt
> - The 140mm variant produces 10.52mm/H20, where the 120mm produces 7.63mm/H20.
> 
> Q. I've read that 12 volt models are limited to 1500 RPM (Yet it says 3000?)
> Q. I was under the impression that 140mm was meant to have lower SP than 120mm.
> 
> Q. Is there a fan that doesn't cost $35 and performs just as good, 'cause that benchmark on page one says not really,
> then again the dBA is huge compared to the other fans that are on there near a similar temperature.


As far as pure performance Sanyo Denki San Ace fans and Delta is going to be the winners due to their super high RPM. If you are after performance at a low noise level that is another question entirely.

Personally I don't like the particular kind of noise that Noctua fans produce and I really don't like the ball bearing noise from Gentle typhoons and the like, so while you may want to look at dba comparisons, the real answer is that you are just as fine choosing any of the premium fans available and rather focus on the particular kind of noise they produce.

As for 140mm vs 120mm... 140mm USED to be worse than 120mm fans when SP was concerned, but the last few years a lot of excellent 140mm fans has been released that simply nullifies this. So you are far better off just choosing what you can fit, but if you can fit a 140mm fan it's going to produce better flow at a lower dba (generally speaking of-course) due to the larger surface area.

Another question that you should ask is what you really need, do you need to get 35$ fans or can make due with 10$ fans and invest the money in other things (in a lot of cases people overspend on trivial things).


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Another question that you should ask is what you really need, do you need to get 35$ fans or can make due with 10$ fans and invest the money in other things (in a lot of cases people overspend on trivial things).


Couldn't agree more. Except fans are one of the least trivial things in a system. Cheaping out on something that can annoy you for years is not a good value, imo. I will happily pay double to not have the unnecessary noise, annoying buzzes, clicks and attention-grabbing resonances of cheap fans.

The only barely acceptable $10CDN fan I can think of costs $11.99 now. But, the Darkside GTs only cost twice as much and are 10 times better. That's real value.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Couldn't agree more. Except fans are one of the least trivial things in a system. Cheaping out on something that can annoy you for years is not a good value, imo. I will happily pay double to not have the unnecessary noise, annoying buzzes, clicks and attention-grabbing resonances of cheap fans.
> 
> The only barely acceptable $10CDN fan I can think of costs $11.99 now. But, the Darkside GTs only cost twice as much and are 10 times better. That's real value.


Well, I didn't mean 10$ specifically I just used that to make my point clear. There are some acceptable budget fans out there, but you are correct in that there are compromises with them to be sure. Honestly though it's all about the area of use, do you really need the extra performance you get from paying twice as much? if so then all for it, but I tend to advice people to at least think their decision though beforehand instead of buying everything that is shiny. A good example would be that I am perfectly fine with running Arctic f12s in my work rig while I NEED my Eloops in my gaming rig, it's all about application and whether or not it's always worth it to pay the premium (in some cases it's totally worth it, but not even close to all which was my point).


----------



## epic1337

you could cheap out on fans, but always maintain two good ones, one for an intake, and one for an exhaust.

the side case fans, top fans, bottom fans, or whatever extra positioning is available, you can have cheaper fans on those positions, or even no fans at all.


----------



## Cyclops

FANtastic.

Still waiting on those P12 Redux stuff, Noctua.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> FANtastic.
> 
> Still waiting on those P12 Redux stuff, Noctua.


Aha! So you do know that the everyone in the Noctua CS department is required to read this forum everyday. And this thread, twice a day. Yup, this time it's personal.

My guess is that when the very last shred of your patience is exhausted and your buying finger is twitching over the dozen GTs in your cart, then the P12 Redux shipments (that had been sitting in warehouses for months) will be released. Probably in the month of Augsepoctnovcember.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Aha! So you do know that the everyone in the Noctua CS department is required to read this forum everyday. And this thread, twice a day. Yup, this time it's personal.
> 
> My guess is that when the very last shred of your patience is exhausted and your buying finger is twitching over the dozen GTs in your cart, then the P12 Redux shipments (that had been sitting in warehouses for months) will be released. Probably in the month of Augsepoctnovcember.


That cat must have had a stroke, but Noctua read this thread on a daily basis, taking notes and consulting the experts for the ultimate CoolAir experience.

I don't see the problem of owning 10 GTs and P12s at the same time







.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> That cat must have had a stroke, but Noctua read this thread on a daily basis, taking notes and consulting the experts for the ultimate CoolAir experience.
> 
> I don't see the problem of owning 10 GTs and P12s at the same time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Not a problem. But if it gets to 20 GTs and only 10 P12s...well...I'd be worried. Not me, personally, because my GT12 ratio is already far above that, but the other non-me me might be.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Not a problem. But if it gets to 20 GTs and only 10 P12s...well...I'd be worried. Not me, personally, because my GT12 ratio is already far above that, but the other non-me me might be.


Too funny.
Where would your ratio be in 14s?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> Too funny.
> Where would your ratio be in 14s?


Oh, 140mm ratio is highly skewed in Noc's favour.


----------



## doyll

Middle of the pack at $7.00 sound like a pretty good
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Couldn't agree more. Except fans are one of the least trivial things in a system. Cheaping out on something that can annoy you for years is not a good value, imo. I will happily pay double to not have the unnecessary noise, annoying buzzes, clicks and attention-grabbing resonances of cheap fans.
> 
> The only barely acceptable $10CDN fan I can think of costs $11.99 now. But, the Darkside GTs only cost twice as much and are 10 times better. That's real value.


Give this cat a cigar!








Don't singe his whiskers lighting it

Good fans are an investment, just like a good case, good cooler and good PSU. They can be used for many years GPU, motherboard, CPU and RAM are likely to need updating every 2-4 years .. they are constantly evolving. Fans, cases and coolers remain pretty much unchanged for donkey's years.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Aha! So you do know that the everyone in the Noctua CS department is required to read this forum everyday. And this thread, twice a day. Yup, this time it's personal.
> 
> My guess is that when the very last shred of your patience is exhausted and your buying finger is twitching over the dozen GTs in your cart, then the P12 Redux shipments (that had been sitting in warehouses for months) will be released. Probably in the month of Augsepoctnovcember.


Someone needs to step on your tail! Everyone know Noctua will release them the day after Cyclops orders more GTs.


----------



## Cyclops

Since Thermalright engineers are unable to draw a square, your best bet will always be a Noctua.

Thermalright, where squares go to die.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Aha! So you do know that the everyone in the Noctua CS department is required to read this forum everyday. And this thread, twice a day. Yup, this time it's personal.
> 
> My guess is that when the very last shred of your patience is exhausted and your buying finger is twitching over the dozen GTs in your cart, then the P12 Redux shipments (that had been sitting in warehouses for months) will be released. Probably in the month of Augsepoctnovcember.


You are becoming a Noctua Zealot square.
Maybe you always were one.








Thermalright makes square fans too, just not TY series. I do agree, they are taking way too long releasing square TY series fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You are becoming a Noctua Zealot square.
> Maybe you always were one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thermalright makes square fans too, just not TY series. I do agree, they are taking way too long releasing square TY series fans.


You replied to the cat. He's playing with his tail.

Maybe TR personnel should watch some Sponge Bob SQUARE pants







.

Seriously though, They are missing a big chunk of the market not releasing square version of their recent 140mm fans. Like seriously.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> You replied to the cat. He's playing with his tail.
> 
> Maybe TR personnel should watch some Sponge Bob SQUARE pants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Seriously though, They are missing a big chunk of the market not releasing square version of their recent 140mm fans. Like seriously.


As long as he's not playing with someone else's tail.









You are preaching to the choir. I've been hounding them for .. well you know. I have enough TY-147A Sq fans to populate my Enthoo Primo to see how I like them compared to PH-F140SP fans. Thermarights are nicer. Also nicer in Enthoo Luxe. I need ot do some testing on high fin density radiator, but expect similar results on them too.


----------



## viperguy212

Anyone have any recommendations for (5) 120mm fans for my two radiator combo + (1) 140mm for an exhaust fan?

I'm leaning towards Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 2000 PWM's or maybe the new Corsair ML series.

Rads: Alphacool xflow 360x30, Alphacool xflow 240x24
Case: Phanteks Evolv ATX Tempered Glass

Thanks!


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viperguy212*
> 
> Anyone have any recommendations for (5) 120mm fans for my two radiator combo + (1) 140mm for an exhaust fan?
> 
> I'm leaning towards Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 2000 PWM's or maybe the new Corsair ML series.
> 
> Rads: Alphacool xflow 360x30, Alphacool xflow 240x24
> Case: Phanteks Evolv ATX Tempered Glass
> 
> Thanks!


Darkside 1850rpm PWM GTs would be my first choice. They are so good it's really not fair to other 120mm fans. The best combo of static pressure, airflow and low noise at 120mm. Their PWM response is very linear and at 550rpm are near inaudible. That's my #1 rec'd.

Those rads are low fpi, so an ideal match with medium speed fans, like the 1850rpm GT.

If you want a tiny little bit more on the top end, there is the 2150rpm PWM GT, but you likely won't need it.

In a far distant 2nd place, would be the EK F4ER, then the Noctua P12, Fractal HP-12, NB Eloop B12-PS, Noctua F12 industrial, and few more and then in 78th place would be the Corsair. Not the worst choice, but not even in the top 50.

On rads, GTs are still king.

/Close Thread.









Oh wait, the lone 140mm. NB-eLoop B14-PS, Fractal HF-14, Noc A14 and for the unsquare, the TR 147a


----------



## doyll

Mister Cat, you left out PH-F120MP.









It is a good choice too, depending on prices.

Honestly, there are many good fan options for low fin per inch radiators.

Why do you mention TY-147A (square or unsquare)? You can't get then 'uup dar n' da nort' anyway.








Come on over and I'll help you with a square TY-147A. Maybe we can form your tail around one.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viperguy212*
> 
> Anyone have any recommendations for (5) 120mm fans for my two radiator combo + (1) 140mm for an exhaust fan?
> 
> I'm leaning towards Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 2000 PWM's or maybe the new Corsair ML series.
> 
> Rads: Alphacool xflow 360x30, Alphacool xflow 240x24
> Case: Phanteks Evolv ATX Tempered Glass
> 
> Thanks!


Forget the F12. The P12 is the superior version.


----------



## viperguy212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Mister Cat, you left out PH-F120MP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a good choice too, depending on prices.
> 
> Honestly, there are many good fan options for low fin per inch radiators.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Darkside 1850rpm PWM GTs would be my first choice. They are so good it's really not fair to other 120mm fans. The best combo of static pressure, airflow and low noise at 120mm. Their PWM response is very linear and at 550rpm are near inaudible. That's my #1 rec'd.
> 
> /Close Thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait, the lone 140mm. NB-eLoop B14-PS, Fractal HF-14, Noc A14 and for the unsquare, the TR 147a


Thanks for the suggestions guys! Much appreciated... That being said since your damn good at this I'll throw another wrench at you...

I have $190 worth of Amazon credit just sitting there. It looks like they have the normal color GT's there. Any Amazon-specific recommendations? Thanks again!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viperguy212*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions guys! Much appreciated... That being said since your damn good at this I'll throw another wrench at you...
> 
> I have $190 worth of Amazon credit just sitting there. It looks like they have the normal color GT's there. Any Amazon-specific recommendations? Thanks again!


Depends on what Amazon you have.









Edit: Hurry up an reply before that cat wakes up! He's sleeping right now.


----------



## viperguy212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Depends on what Amazon you have.


Amazon.com (US version) lol. I do see those black on black Phanteks there...very pretty.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #79 - Phanteks PH-F120MP:





This review has been a long time coming. I was excited to test this thing as it looked really promising, but I am a little bit disappointed at the end of it all.

The performance is very close to the Noctua NF-F12, so in that regard, it's a very good option to have, specially considering that it costs about 50% less than the Noctua. It also, in my opinion (and probably most of you as well), looks a lot better than the F12.

I was hoping for higher levels of performance from the PH-F120MP given its unorthodox blade design, but it is what is it, placing itself in the middle of the pack.


----------



## doyll

While PH-F120MP makes similar noise at rpm as others, it moves more air at same noise level.

Amazon link to PH-F120MP


----------



## Cyclops

Maybe, it doesn't stand out in any of my tests though. Arctic Cooling F12 PWM (In push), for example, is 2.4 dBAs quieter while being 0.8C cooler.

In push/pull, the P12 is a little bit warmer but much quieter.


----------



## doyll

Arctic F12 are amazingly good for the price.

Might have something to do with test system. That or simple margin of error. +/-2c or 2dB is well within margin of error, even if 2 test systems are all identical components. Test system using different cooler / radiator could easily make 2c 2dB difference .. the difference in blade designs may react differently when used same cooler / radiator than on yours. I only have one to play with and comparing it to GT Ap-14 on H80 radiator I'm seeing /hearing little difference in airflow and sound measurements. Definitely not enough to say one is better than other. I need to put it on a CPU or try them both on air cooler before I make final decision, but I'm strongly leaning toward ti being a tie.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viperguy212*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions guys! Much appreciated... That being said since your damn good at this I'll throw another wrench at you...
> 
> I have $190 worth of Amazon credit just sitting there. It looks like they have the normal color GT's there. Any Amazon-specific recommendations? Thanks again!


Coolerguys have an Amazon storefront, so the 2150rpm PWM GTs would absorb some of that credit. Not as sexy as the all black Darkside GT editions, but still far better performing than the pretenders some old dogs are flogging here.


----------



## doyll

GT AP-14 may be only 1450rpm, but it performs same as the 1850rpm GT up to 1450rpm.







Depends on if extra rpm is needed .. along with extra noise levels
A certain black tail might come up missing while asleep!


----------



## viperguy212

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Coolerguys have an Amazon storefront, so the 2150rpm PWM GTs would absorb some of that credit. Not as sexy as the all black Darkside GT editions, but still far better performing than the pretenders some old dogs are flogging here.


Thanks for the suggestion. What are your feeling about EK-Vardar F4-120ER's? From what I can see their pretty comparable to the GT's but black w/ sleeving.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viperguy212*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. What are your feeling about EK-Vardar F4-120ER's? From what I can see their pretty comparable to the GT's but black w/ sleeving.


Yes, they're comparable in terms of performance and more blingie. They are not comparable in terms of the noise profile. The GT bearings are superior - they sound smooth and innocuous. All the Vardars I have, are a little (or a lot) noisier for a given airflow, but the character of the noise is more annoying - more peaks and resonances. Hard to explain in words - but once heard, it's obvious. GTs, there is no substitute.









If you want the best performance with the lowest noise and with the bling - gotta pay up for the Darkside GTs with optional sleeving.

However, as totally objective and important my opinion is to me, you don't have my overly sensitive ears - you have your own. Good fans are a sound investment (a free pun with every one).

Suggest if the budget permits (hell, even if it doesn't) to buy one or two of the top 3 candidates and audition them for yourself. That way you make the best possible choice - the internet can't make the best choice (unless it's for GTs) for you. The bonus is that you get to start your own collection of closet fans. That's real status symbol of true fans of fans.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Maybe, it doesn't stand out in any of my tests though. Arctic Cooling F12 PWM (In push), for example, is 2.4 dBAs quieter while being 0.8C cooler.
> 
> In push/pull, the P12 is a little bit warmer but much quieter.


I've got the AC F12 PWN in push underneath my Silverstone NT06-Pro and let me tell you, nearly dead silent at 1150RPM, full speed its a little more noticeable but definitely a great fan!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *viperguy212*
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. What are your feeling about EK-Vardar F4-120ER's? From what I can see their pretty comparable to the GT's but black w/ sleeving.


The cat's answer is black spot on.








While the Vardars may be okay, they have had their share of problems in their short history.
While GT have been around for many years there have been very few problems.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Maybe, it doesn't stand out in any of my tests though. Arctic Cooling F12 PWM (In push), for example, is 2.4 dBAs quieter while being 0.8C cooler.
> 
> In push/pull, the P12 is a little bit warmer but much quieter.


Any chance that you could also publish an annotated/numbered scatter graph of noise vs dbA ? I find the noise / dbA rating a completely un-relatable quantity.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> Any chance that you could also publish an annotated/numbered scatter graph of noise vs dbA ? I find the noise / dbA rating a completely un-relatable quantity.


No.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> No.


Fair enough. Thank you.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

I am sitting here with a F140MP on my case adjusting it with fanXpert, trying to understand wich part of that fan is silent ? Specs say 17-25.3 dB (A) on phanteks site, but at 1650 its LOUD, what would be some alternatives for this fan, if they were to go on a nemesis GTX rads, I really want something that`s quiet and performs, but I have a feeling that`s to much to ask for ? I know noctuas are nice, but the industrial ones must be louder vs the phanteks. The phanteks is tolerable at 1000rpm but if I go much higher it gets annoying quick








I found Noctua NF-P14S-REDUX that seem to have similar performance but claim 19,6 dB(A) also they go for cheaper than the phanteks ones.


----------



## MicroCat

Yes, you've discovered the big cheat: factory fan specs. Although that MP spec at the noisy end is close to 10dB higher which is perceived as twice as loud. 25.3dB in free air at one meter in an anechoic chamber is the best case. In a real case in a real room, restriction, turbulence and resonant effects will raise that number significantly.

And worse, any single figure of merit measurement for noise levels doesn't reveal frequency spectrum effects - the human ear (and some cat ears) are very sensitive to low level, low Q resonances. And steady state db measurements don't reveal the annoyance of transient clicks and buzzes.

Haven't found a 140mm fan I can tolerate above 1500rpm. The Noctua A14PWM is smoother than many others, but still too loud for my quiet little space above 1300rpm. Isn't the purpose of larger fans to provide better performance than 120mm fans at lower rpms and noise?

I consider 1200rpm to be my sonic tolerance limit for 140mm fans. I've been playing around with the 24V versions of the Noctua 140mm industrial fans. They're very good - when kept around 1200rpm. ;-)

Since the GTX is a low fpi rad, maybe consider the Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B14-PS - doesn't spin too high, kinda low static pressure, but is reviewed (at thermalbench) as one of the quietest 140mm fans. I've used the Noc P14 redux versions, and they are a little less annoying than similar Phanteks models I've tried, but not by much.

I prefer the original HP series from Phanteks to the MP or HPII series. The Fractal HP-14 is a possible consideration - again it's biased towards lower noise than performance - the samples I've used are much smoother and quieter than the Phanteks I've compared - however some have reported bearing issues - so Q&A could be an issue. And their 1 year warranty is a joke for a premium fan. There's the Be!Q Slient Wings 2 - very quiet, but performance on a rad is kinda meh.

Finally, since it's my week to champion GTs, you might consider the 120mm versions of the GTX rads. The 1850rpm PWM GTs have a more innocuous sonic signature with as good performance (better static pressure) than many higher speed 140mm fans. And their specs are closer to reality - To me, Nidec's 26dB is much, much quieter than Phantek's 25dB, possibly by as much as 6-8dB.









There's also the EK Vardar 140mm fans, that are sort of a GT tribute band made large. The bearings and noise profile, for me, need more time in the rehearsal hall. Or more cowbell at least.

Anyways, no specs or even comprehensive fan tests on the internet can accurately determine what performance versus fan noise profile is best tolerated by your ears in your system. So, congrats on discovering a prime candidate for fan closet use!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Anyways, no specs or even *comprehensive fan tests* on the internet can accurately determine what performance versus fan noise profile is best tolerated by your ears in your system. So, congrats on discovering a prime candidate for fan closet use!


Except for mine. Mine is the best thing to have happened in this world (And some other cat world).


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Yes, you've discovered the big cheat: factory fan specs. Although that MP spec at the noisy end is close to 10dB higher which is perceived as twice as loud. 25.3dB in free air at one meter in an anechoic chamber is the best case. In a real case in a real room, restriction, turbulence and resonant effects will raise that number significantly.
> 
> And worse, any single figure of merit measurement for noise levels doesn't reveal frequency spectrum effects - the human ear (and some cat ears) are very sensitive to low level, low Q resonances. And steady state db measurements don't reveal the annoyance of transient clicks and buzzes.
> 
> Haven't found a 140mm fan I can tolerate above 1500rpm. The Noctua A14PWM is smoother than many others, but still too loud for my quiet little space above 1300rpm. Isn't the purpose of larger fans to provide better performance than 120mm fans at lower rpms and noise?
> 
> I consider 1200rpm to be my sonic tolerance limit for 140mm fans. I've been playing around with the 24V versions of the Noctua 140mm industrial fans. They're very good - when kept around 1200rpm. ;-)
> 
> Since the GTX is a low fpi rad, maybe consider the Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B14-PS - doesn't spin too high, kinda low static pressure, but is reviewed (at thermalbench) as one of the quietest 140mm fans. I've used the Noc P14 redux versions, and they are a little less annoying than similar Phanteks models I've tried, but not by much.
> 
> I prefer the original HP series from Phanteks to the MP or HPII series. The Fractal HP-14 is a possible consideration - again it's biased towards lower noise than performance - the samples I've used are much smoother and quieter than the Phanteks I've compared - however some have reported bearing issues - so Q&A could be an issue. And their 1 year warranty is a joke for a premium fan. There's the Be!Q Slient Wings 2 - very quiet, but performance on a rad is kinda meh.
> 
> Finally, since it's my week to champion GTs, you might consider the 120mm versions of the GTX rads. The 1850rpm PWM GTs have a more innocuous sonic signature with as good performance (better static pressure) than many higher speed 140mm fans. And their specs are closer to reality - To me, Nidec's 26dB is much, much quieter than Phantek's 25dB, possibly by as much as 6-8dB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's also the EK Vardar 140mm fans, that are sort of a GT tribute band made large. The bearings and noise profile, for me, need more time in the rehearsal hall. Or more cowbell at least.
> 
> Anyways, no specs or even comprehensive fan tests on the internet can accurately determine what performance versus fan noise profile is best tolerated by your ears in your system. So, congrats on discovering a prime candidate for fan closet use!






That really makes me sad that there is not a standard of uniformity on how fan noise has to be measured, when I tried Phanteks F140MP rated for 25.3db vs the Swiftech 120mm helix rated for 33db but the swiftech was more quiet, how is that even possible ? Making blind fan buying decisions is impossible. Quess I`ll just opt for the 120 rads and use the swiftech fans tuned down, atleast I`ve heard of what I`m getting so it wont be a surprise, and a negative one talking about the phanteks turbines here








It`s like if a company decides they can mark a fan as 0 db , if the measuring team went home, didnt hear the fan so it must be 0db right, ridiculous.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Except for mine. Mine is the best thing to have happened in this world (And some other cat world).


Yes, except for yours. That goes without saying. Until now.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

They also sell these and the PWM variant Nidec 120mm Gentle Typhoon Performance Fan - 1850rpm, 58cfm - Black Edition, wich I didn`t notice before, I have a feeling resisting the urge will be impossible









I had 5 AP-15s a couple years back and I loved em, sound profile was pleasant and buildquality was amazing to.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> 
> That really makes me sad that there is not a standard of uniformity on how fan noise has to be measured, when I tried Phanteks F140MP rated for 25.3db vs the Swiftech 120mm helix rated for 33db but the swiftech was more quiet, how is that even possible ? Making blind fan buying decisions is impossible. Quess I`ll just opt for the 120 rads and use the swiftech fans tuned down, atleast I`ve heard of what I`m getting so it wont be a surprise, and a negative one talking about the phanteks turbines here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It`s like if a company decides they can mark a fan as 0 db , if the measuring team went home, didnt hear the fan so it must be 0db right, ridiculous.


Exactly. Don't want to make blind fan buying decisions. You want to hear them. Ok, you don't want to hear them, but that's why you need to hear them before you set them up so you can't hear them. Or something.









The swiftech 120mm fans are decent - not as good as the GTs, but at least you have heard them so you don't have to worry about hearing too much of them.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> They also sell these and the PWM variant Nidec 120mm Gentle Typhoon Performance Fan - 1850rpm, 58cfm - Black Edition, wich I didn`t notice before, I have a feeling resisting the urge will be impossible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had 5 AP-15s a couple years back and I loved em, sound profile was pleasant and buildquality was amazing to.


Uh-oh...Black GT fever has infected another.









I just ordered a bunch more 1850rpm PWM versions. Have a few 140mm fans that are going back in the closet.


----------



## DarkIdeals

So my current system is as follows:

Caselabs SMA8 Supertower Case

ASUS X99 Rampage V Black Edition 10th Anniversary Motherboard

I7 5960X @ 4.5ghz (4.2ghz cache/uncore) - 1.28v (1.95v input) I Am Waiting for an I7 6800K in the mail to replace the 5960X since i'm selling it in the near future; the Broadwell-E CPUs are even hotter!

MSI Gaming-X GTX 1080 @ 2,150mhz & 11,000mhz memory - 1.096v

16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 3000mhz C15 - 1.35v

EVGA Supernova G2 1000w PSU

PNY CS2211 480GB SSD + WD Blue 500GB HDD

Cooling:

EK Supremacy EVO-CSQ CPU Waterblock

XSPC EX 480mm Radiator (35mm thick)

EK XTC 420mm Radiator (60mm thick)

HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360mm Radiator (55mm thick)

EK X3 250mm Reservoir (tube)

Swiftech MCP655-B D5 Pump

4 x Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition fans

1 x Noctua NF-F12 2000rpm Industrial fan

2 x NZXT Generic ~1400rpm fans + 1x NZXT 200mm generic 900rpm fan

I'm trying to get my temps as low as humanly possible without resorting to Cascade, LN2 etc.. which i have no interest in returning to after all the time i've spent competing with that kind of overclocking in past years. I'm considering adding more rad space (my case is kinda limited even with its size since i already have a 480 rad in top with no room left, a 360 rad in front which would cut into my 5.25" bay mounted headphone AMP/DAC combo if i upped to 420/480 there, and a 420 rad in the front of the bottom section.) With the limited space the only rad space i could add would be swapping out the 420 rad and resorting to a full 560 rad there, and i can "seemingly" fit a 240 or 280 rad without hitting my PSU in the back of the lower chamber.

I'm not sure if more rad space will really help though, especially since i'm currently only water cooling the CPU (my 1080 is on air for now, unsure if i plan to waterblock it or not as i might just get a 2nd one and air cool them) I'm assuming that i'm kinda hitting "diminishing returns" with cooling performance.

So naturally my 2nd place i looked was my fans. I listed my fans in the above section, but i'll mention again. I have 4 x Corsair SP120 Quiet Editions, 1 x Noctua NF-F12 2000rpm Industrial, and 2 x cheapo NZXT 120mm ones on my rads, and a 200mm one "laying" on the rad in the bottom section since i have no 140mm fans to mount to it. I'm trying to decide what fans to go for for the rest of my rad space to A) Get the lowest temps possible, B) While not being super loud.

SO. TLR = For a quite large 1,260mm of radiator space, should i just go with ALL Corsair SP120 quiet editions and 140's for my lower rad? or is there a better fan choice for not very loud but nice cooling? I need TWO 120mm fans that fit this criteria, and FOUR 140mm ones. These charts don't appear to have any clear winner, and they don't specifically take radiators into account or test static pressure at all etc.. so i thought some of your guys here could give me info on what the current best compromise of performance to noise in a radiator fan is.

Sorry for the long post, thanks!


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> So my current system is as follows:
> 
> SO. TLR = For a quite large 1,260mm of radiator space, should i just go with ALL Corsair SP120 quiet editions and 140's for my lower rad? or is there a better fan choice for not very loud but nice cooling? I need TWO 120mm fans that fit this criteria, and FOUR 140mm ones. These charts don't appear to have any clear winner, and they don't specifically take radiators into account or test static pressure at all etc.. so i thought some of your guys here could give me info on what the current best compromise of performance to noise in a radiator fan is.
> 
> Sorry for the long post, thanks!


Welcome to GT week on OCN.









At 120mm, suggest the 1850rpm PWM GTs. At least 6dB quieter than the SP120 with slightly better performance at lower rpm. GTs have a far more pleasant noise profile and much better build quality. In case you missed the link in my previous posts, *Darkside PWM GT* or the 2150rpm PWM version from Coolerguys . The 120 EK F4ER is another high performance option.

For performance at 140mm, the Noctua NF-A14 IPPC-3000 PWM delivers. It also spins down to 350rpm on PWM, so it can run quietly too. The EK F3ER or F4 are solid high performance options too.


Thermalbench IPPC-3000 test

Check the tests on the first page of this thread too. The IPPC-3000 performs the best of the 140mm fans tested - at the expense of noise. Any 140mm fan above 2000rpm is going to be on the loud side. Not my cup of cooling. I've stopped chasing the lowest temps and prefer to get the lowest temps with the least amount of noise.

Which...looking at your rad area and only cooling the cpu, you should be able to have both low temps and low to moderate noise. What are the load temps currently with the 5960?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Welcome to GT week on OCN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 120mm, suggest the 1850rpm PWM GTs. At least 6dB quieter than the SP120 with slightly better performance at lower rpm. GTs have a far more pleasant noise profile and much better build quality. In case you missed the link in my previous posts, *Darkside PWM GT* or the 2150rpm PWM version from Coolerguys . The 120 EK F4ER is another high performance option.
> 
> For performance at 140mm, the Noctua NF-A14 IPPC-3000 PWM delivers. It also spins down to 350rpm on PWM, so it can run quietly too. The EK F3ER or F4 are solid high performance options too.
> 
> 
> Thermalbench IPPC-3000 test
> 
> Check the tests on the first page of this thread too. The IPPC-3000 performs the best of the 140mm fans tested - at the expense of noise. Any 140mm fan above 2000rpm is going to be on the loud side. Not my cup of cooling. I've stopped chasing the lowest temps and prefer to get the lowest temps with the least amount of noise.
> 
> Which...looking at your rad area and only cooling the cpu, you should be able to have both low temps and low to moderate noise. What are the load temps currently with the 5960?


Just don't forget the NF-A14 iPPC PWM is a COMMERCIAL fan, not a consumer fan! Being a COMMERCIAL fan means IT IS NOT QUIET at low rpm like Noctua consumer fans are. Noctua rates them from 800rpm to 3000rpm .. 800rpm, not 300rpm. There have been many complaints by users expecting Noctua consumer fan noise levels not being happy about the iPPC fans' noise.









Many of us think any 140mm fan above 1100rpm is on the loud side.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Just don't forget the NF-A14 iPPC PWM is a COMMERCIAL fan, not a consumer fan! Being a COMMERCIAL fan means IT IS NOT QUIET at low rpm like Noctua consumer fans are.
> 
> Many of us think any 140mm fan above 1100rpm is on the loud side.


Well...some of us cat-eared ones sure do.









The Noc 24V 3000rpm industrial models I've been playing around with are very quiet at low rpms running on 12V PWM - they aren't too pleasant above 1200rpm tho.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Well...some of us cat-eared ones sure do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Noc 24V 3000rpm industrial models I've been playing around with are very quiet at low rpms running on 12V PWM - they aren't too pleasant above 1200rpm tho.


What is their maximum speed on 12v?


----------



## JackCY

Can we get some tests of those new magnetic bearing fans? Like Corsair ML now that they are finally making them?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What is their maximum speed on 12v?


Appears to be around 1610-1620rpm - so too high for anything other than OC benches and annoying the cats.









I got them on a good discount and since not every shelf in the fan closet is stuffed...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Appears to be around 1610-1620rpm - so too high for anything other than OC benches and annoying the cats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got them on a good discount and since not every shelf in the fan closet is stuffed...


I like annoying the cats.








Have you per chance compared any other Noctua fan to these 24v 140mm IPPC 3000, .. like 12v 140mm 1200-1500rpm models?

Edit: I ask because they may be an option for users liking A14 and A15 round fans but wanting a square one.

Oh! Thermalright now shows the TY-147Asq and TY-143sq on their website! And a TY-141sq too.
http://www.thermalright.com/products.html and click 140mm in fans.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

The swiftech helix 120 pwm 1800 rpm fans have one annoying quality to them even at low rpm ( 1000 ) you dont get much air noise but the motors have this sort of brrrrrrrrrrr to them, anyone else notice that ? I dont remember the GT AP-15s having this issue, or maybe it`s just because they are pwm controlled no? and it`s just not the one fan, every one of the 3 I have have the same issue


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Welcome to GT week on OCN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 120mm, suggest the 1850rpm PWM GTs. At least 6dB quieter than the SP120 with slightly better performance at lower rpm. GTs have a far more pleasant noise profile and much better build quality. In case you missed the link in my previous posts, *Darkside PWM GT* or the 2150rpm PWM version from Coolerguys . The 120 EK F4ER is another high performance option.
> 
> For performance at 140mm, the Noctua NF-A14 IPPC-3000 PWM delivers. It also spins down to 350rpm on PWM, so it can run quietly too. The EK F3ER or F4 are solid high performance options too.
> 
> 
> Thermalbench IPPC-3000 test
> 
> Check the tests on the first page of this thread too. The IPPC-3000 performs the best of the 140mm fans tested - at the expense of noise. Any 140mm fan above 2000rpm is going to be on the loud side. Not my cup of cooling. I've stopped chasing the lowest temps and prefer to get the lowest temps with the least amount of noise.
> 
> Which...looking at your rad area and only cooling the cpu, you should be able to have both low temps and low to moderate noise. What are the load temps currently with the 5960?


Thanks for the info. At 4.5ghz + 4.2ghz cache @ 1.3v or so my temps are decent. In the mid 30's idle, and on full load with like Cinebench or such i get up in the mid 70's. But once i go to 4.6ghz i need to push 1.4v to get stable, and that ends up with me hitting mid 40's idle and mid 80's under Cinebench load. And i ordered a 4.4ghz binned I7 6800K from siliconlottery; gonna test it and see how it does and sell my 5960X if i can get the 6800K to perform as well in multi-core as a stock 3.5ghz 5960X since i'll theoretically get better single core perf on broadwell-e while keeping "Most" of the multi-core perf for a lower cost than i can sell the 5960X for. The thing is, Broadwell-E is even MORE hot! The dense 14nm process means higher voltages rack up heat even worse than on the 5960X. And i'm only guaranteed the 4.4ghz bin at "1.34v or lower. The "or lower" means its just a placeholder, so it'll likely be more like ~1.3v - 1.34v range to hit 4.4ghz, but i'm wanting to hit 4.5ghz on it at a safe for 24/7 voltage and temperature, and its looking like i might have to climb to the max safe voltage of about ~1.4v to get a 4.5ghz overclock, so i'm wanting to keep my temps as low as possible to really maximize my overclocking potential and curb the heat output.

I really do like the Gentle Typhoons, especially the new black ones from darkside. Although i am doing a white oriented build so i love the look of the white ring on the SP120's etc.. Right now i have four SP120, so i suppose i could just swap all four of those onto my top 480 rad, ditch the cheapo fans, and then run three GT 120's on my front 360 rad. I did have four of the 140mm Noctua NF-A14 ippc's a while ago, but iirc they weren't PWM so they couldn't spin down and ended up returning them to amazon.

I got a FANTASTIC deal on the four SP120 i have already though, got them on NCIX's amazon site for....brace yourself....$5 for a pack of 2...bought two packs...should've bought TWENTY pack lol.

What's your opinion on these for a 140mm fan. Been interested in them for their black/white color scheme which matches my build but can't find a lot of info on them: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835129076

Trying to find a not super expensive quiet radiator optimized 140mm especially since getting three GT's will run me ~$75 with shipping already. Kinda thinking of getting like a Mo RA3 nine fan external rad or something and maybe just running it "passive" till i can afford more fans lol.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

how is it you can afford 5960x and binned 6800k but dont have money to buy fans ?


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> how is it you can afford 5960x and binned 6800k but dont have money to buy fans ?


Its called buying thousands of dollars of PC gear and "running out" of money









Had to sell a bunch of my stuff just to afford the 5960X etc.. I rarely if ever can afford PC builds, so i try to go all out when i do.


----------



## Cyclops

Thermalright with 140mm SQUARE fans? Is it April 1st already?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Thermalright with 140mm SQUARE fans? Is it April 1st already?


Lets see, if it's not April 1st we should be getting retail sample in the next week or two.

I did notice their cfm numbers are more conservative than round models. 62.5cfm vs 73.6cfm for TY-147Asq vs TY-147A and 123.5cfm vs 130cfm for TY-143sq vs TY-143.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

All there is to do is wait for my 5x darkside gentle typhoon 1850 pwm to get here now


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Lets see, if it's not April 1st we should be getting retail sample in the next week or two.
> 
> I did notice their cfm numbers are more conservative than round models. 62.5cfm vs 73.6cfm for TY-147Asq vs TY-147A and 123.5cfm vs 130cfm for TY-143sq vs TY-143.


Slower rated speeds?

Edit: Nope, doesn't seem like it.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Slower rated speeds?
> 
> Edit: Nope, doesn't seem like it.


Indeed. I can understand how the square might change it a little, like the 123.5cfm ot 130cfm on TY-143sq to TY-143, but the TY-147Asq is 11.1cfm different .. just seems to be too much difference .. unless they are just being conservative.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Thanks for the info. At 4.5ghz + 4.2ghz cache @ 1.3v or so my temps are decent. In the mid 30's idle, and on full load with like Cinebench or such i get up in the mid 70's. But once i go to 4.6ghz i need to push 1.4v to get stable, and that ends up with me hitting mid 40's idle and mid 80's under Cinebench load. And i ordered a 4.4ghz binned I7 6800K from siliconlottery; gonna test it and see how it does and sell my 5960X if i can get the 6800K to perform as well in multi-core as a stock 3.5ghz 5960X since i'll theoretically get better single core perf on broadwell-e while keeping "Most" of the multi-core perf for a lower cost than i can sell the 5960X for. The thing is, Broadwell-E is even MORE hot! The dense 14nm process means higher voltages rack up heat even worse than on the 5960X. And i'm only guaranteed the 4.4ghz bin at "1.34v or lower. The "or lower" means its just a placeholder, so it'll likely be more like ~1.3v - 1.34v range to hit 4.4ghz, but i'm wanting to hit 4.5ghz on it at a safe for 24/7 voltage and temperature, and its looking like i might have to climb to the max safe voltage of about ~1.4v to get a 4.5ghz overclock, so i'm wanting to keep my temps as low as possible to really maximize my overclocking potential and curb the heat output.
> 
> I really do like the Gentle Typhoons, especially the new black ones from darkside. Although i am doing a white oriented build so i love the look of the white ring on the SP120's etc.. Right now i have four SP120, so i suppose i could just swap all four of those onto my top 480 rad, ditch the cheapo fans, and then run three GT 120's on my front 360 rad. I did have four of the 140mm Noctua NF-A14 ippc's a while ago, but iirc they weren't PWM so they couldn't spin down and ended up returning them to amazon.
> 
> I got a FANTASTIC deal on the four SP120 i have already though, got them on NCIX's amazon site for....brace yourself....$5 for a pack of 2...bought two packs...should've bought TWENTY pack lol.
> 
> What's your opinion on these for a 140mm fan. Been interested in them for their black/white color scheme which matches my build but can't find a lot of info on them: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835129076
> 
> Trying to find a not super expensive quiet radiator optimized 140mm especially since getting three GT's will run me ~$75 with shipping already. Kinda thinking of getting like a Mo RA3 nine fan external rad or something and maybe just running it "passive" till i can afford more fans lol.


Oh...white...don't look at these custom Darkside models then.










My guess is that the 6800k from SL will run cooler than the 5960 despite the increase in thermal density. I would have expected with that much rad area your temps would be lower. I'm not going blame the corsair fans, but you can.

If you need to pure white fans, the EK F4ER has that option:


The Aerocools are optimized for low noise, more than static pressure on a rad. They're a decent fan, but offer less than half the performance of the 3k rpm Noc or EK F4ER 140mm which is cheaper than the Aerocool.

Ooooo...another rad. Why not a 180mm one? Alphacool XT45? The Silverstone FM181 is white, pushes a lot of air, thermalbench's fav 1800mm


Give us another day or so and pretty sure we can come up with more ways to spend lots of money you don't have.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I like annoying the cats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you per chance compared any other Noctua fan to these 24v 140mm IPPC 3000, .. like 12v 140mm 1200-1500rpm models?
> 
> Edit: I ask because they may be an option for users liking A14 and A15 round fans but wanting a square one.
> 
> Oh! Thermalright now shows the TY-147Asq and TY-143sq on their website! And a TY-141sq too.
> http://www.thermalright.com/products.html and click 140mm in fans.


Oh, so I don't need to answer that question now.









But, if I did, from my preliminary tests, I'd say they're very close, not quite the same tonality and smoothness, but close. Thought I heard some artifacts under voltage control that I didn't with PWM - need to spend some more time with them before I put them in the closet.


----------



## VSG

Speaking of the Silverstone FM181, they are now discontinued :'(

Apparently the AP182 suffices enough, and any stock in the retail chain is it.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Speaking of the Silverstone FM181, they are now discontinued :'(
> 
> Apparently the AP182 suffices enough, and any stock in the retail chain is it.


Ah...so much for your fav 180mm and no MB control with the AP182. Ugh.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Oh...white...don't look at these custom Darkside models then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that the 6800k from SL will run cooler than the 5960 despite the increase in thermal density. I would have expected with that much rad area your temps would be lower. I'm not going blame the corsair fans, but you can.
> 
> If you need to pure white fans, the EK F4ER has that option:
> 
> 
> The Aerocools are optimized for low noise, more than static pressure on a rad. They're a decent fan, but offer less than half the performance of the 3k rpm Noc or EK F4ER 140mm which is cheaper than the Aerocool.
> 
> Ooooo...another rad. Why not a 180mm one? Alphacool XT45? The Silverstone FM181 is white, pushes a lot of air, thermalbench's fav 1800mm
> 
> 
> Give us another day or so and pretty sure we can come up with more ways to spend lots of money you don't have.


I'm sure you could, haha!









Too bad about that nice looking 180mm being discontinued. Would've looked quite nice frankly. However i can't fit a 180mm fan rad in my case though as i'm already near limit even in my Caselabs SMA8. The SMA8 has four places for Rad mounts, it can handle a 560mm in the bottom chambers front, a 480mm in the top, a 480mm in the front, and "theoretically" would be capable of fitting another 560mm in the back of the bottom chamber.

However, my EVGA Supernova G2 1000w PSU takes up most of the room in the back of the lower chamber so i can only fit a 240mm or MAYBE a 280mm back there. And i have a full XSPC-EX 480mm rad in the top already, i have a Black Ice GTX 360mm rad in the front (but can't fit anything larger there even though it "could" take a 480 as i need room for my Headphone AMP/DAC and Disk Drive in the 5.25" bay on the front), and i have an EK XTC 420mm rad in the front of the lower chamber (can fit up to a 560 max)

So basically the ONLY extra rad space i could fit in my PC would be selling the 420mm and getting a 560mm instead, and then getting a 240 or 280mm for the back assuming it will fit with my PSU installed.

That's why i'm thinking of maybe getting like one of the MO-RA3 1080mm external rads (which modmymods has available for ~$160 iirc). Basically my goal is to get as close as humanly possible to ambient temps without going UNDER ambient (so i don't have to deal with condensation. Not about to risk my new Rampage V Black Edition and 5960X/6800K to whether i kneaded the art eraser properly to insulate it lol) But i want to do so with the least noise possible.

So i guess what i really need are A) The BEST performing rad fans, THAT B) Aren't very loud


----------



## MicroCat

Think you need to change up your priorities tho, 'cause hax0rs:
Researchers Make Malware That Steals Data by Spinning Your Computer's Fans

So not only is having a quiet system easier to live with, it's safer too.









The good news is that GTs have the best performance to noise ratio. At least to my paranoid ears.


----------



## Cyclops

That's it, I'm going fanless.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Think you need to change up your priorities tho, 'cause hax0rs:
> Researchers Make Malware That Steals Data by Spinning Your Computer's Fans
> 
> So not only is having a quiet system easier to live with, it's safer too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that GTs have the best performance to noise ratio. At least to my paranoid ears.


Looks like i'll end up going with GT's then i guess.









If my noise/perf ratio is off i'll know to put up countermeasure for teh hax0rz









EDIT: what the frick modmymods?!?! $26.99 PER FAN?!?!? The black editions are $19.99 but the regular white ones are $26.99??? Jeez.... might just get some Vardars instead, perhaps i can paint the blades on them or the black edition GT's white


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> That's it, I'm going fanless.


Same here.

Shall be building one system that will only have one PWM fan because the idiot motherboard, needs one to start up with.

Of course the PSU is another possible fan install but at this moment in time some PSUs don't even make any noise if the fan is moving. Hence I shall be trying to make a fanless system but again it won't be, if it needs to start and work like normal.

Also let it be noted here NO overclocking shall be pursued so everything shall be a plain, normal system - yes I know, it'll be boring.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Think you need to change up your priorities tho, 'cause hax0rs:
> Researchers Make Malware That Steals Data by Spinning Your Computer's Fans
> 
> So not only is having a quiet system easier to live with, it's safer too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that GTs have the best performance to noise ratio. At least to my paranoid ears.


I tried to verify on Snopes, but my fans all ran full speed and system trashed!


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Think you need to change up your priorities tho, 'cause hax0rs:
> Researchers Make Malware That Steals Data by Spinning Your Computer's Fans
> 
> So not only is having a quiet system easier to live with, it's safer too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that GTs have the best performance to noise ratio. At least to my paranoid ears.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like i'll end up going with GT's then i guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If my noise/perf ratio is off i'll know to put up countermeasure for teh hax0rz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: what the frick modmymods?!?! $26.99 PER FAN?!?!? The black editions are $19.99 but the regular white ones are $26.99??? Jeez.... might just get some Vardars instead, perhaps i can paint the blades on them or the black edition GT's white
Click to expand...

The white ones cost more because ModMyMods has to take the black ones apart, paint the blades, then put them back together again. Since the factory warranty gets blown (pardon the pun, ModMyMods will replace the warranty themselves. $6 labor for paint and labor plus picking up the warranty seems pretty reasonable to me.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> The white ones cost more because ModMyMods has to take the black ones apart, paint the blades, then put them back together again. Since the factory warranty gets blown (pardon the pun, ModMyMods will replace the warranty themselves. $6 labor for paint and labor plus picking up the warranty seems pretty reasonable to me.


Not really. $6 extra per fan for a small paint job is quite a bit really, especially considering how expensive they already are and also since their "black edition" ones are ALREADY painted anyway! They could simply take the default grey ones and paint them white instead of black, so it shouldn't cost any more than the black edition if you think about it. If that is indeed what they are doing (painting the default grey ones black, then painting the black ones white) then its THEIR fault for making a frankly dumb business move and not simply painting some of the grey ones white in the first place!

idk, i might still get some; and i might not have complained about the price either....but on top of the exorbitant price for apparently no reason compared to the blacks, you have a 2 to 3 week wait for them. I'm tempted to just get Vardars, but the noise isn't as low so i still lean towards GT. Kinda wondering if i should just get some grey normal ones. Hard to find the PWM in normal grey though sadly...

EDIT: Well nvm, they aren't even in frickin stock at all....figures -_____- Gonna be forever before i can get my loop with proper fans fully setup.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Not really. $6 extra per fan for a small paint job is quite a bit really, especially considering how expensive they already are and also since their "black edition" ones are ALREADY painted anyway! They could simply take the default grey ones and paint them white instead of black, so it shouldn't cost any more than the black edition if you think about it. If that is indeed what they are doing (painting the default grey ones black, then painting the black ones white) then its THEIR fault for making a frankly dumb business move and not simply painting some of the grey ones white in the first place!
> 
> idk, i might still get some; and i might not have complained about the price either....but on top of the exorbitant price for apparently no reason compared to the blacks, you have a 2 to 3 week wait for them. I'm tempted to just get Vardars, but the noise isn't as low so i still lean towards vardars. Kinda wondering if i should just get some grey normal ones. Hard to find the PWM in normal grey though sadly...


What makes you think that black fan blades are painted? Nidec-servo does not paint them, they manufacture them with black, gray, white plastic fan blades in black plastic housings depending on customer specifications. The thing is Nide-Servo require very large number of fans as a minimum order .. thousands at a time. This means most companies who order from them cannot afford to have too many different models / colors because of inventory costs. This is why MMM painted some their black bladed fans white.









The white fan version are custom made on demand. This means they pull stock from the warehouse, un-package, disassemble, clean, paint, allow paint to cure, re-assemble, re-package them .. compared to normal all black models only needing to be pulled for stock in warehouse before shipping. That is all additional time and material expense,

The 2-3 week time-line is time needed to un-package, disassemble, clean, paint, allow paint to cure, re-assemble, re-package, pack and ship them.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Not really. $6 extra per fan for a small paint job is quite a bit really, especially considering how expensive they already are and also since their "black edition" ones are ALREADY painted anyway! They could simply take the default grey ones and paint them white instead of black, so it shouldn't cost any more than the black edition if you think about it. If that is indeed what they are doing (painting the default grey ones black, then painting the black ones white) then its THEIR fault for making a frankly dumb business move and not simply painting some of the grey ones white in the first place!
> 
> idk, i might still get some; and i might not have complained about the price either....but on top of the exorbitant price for apparently no reason compared to the blacks, you have a 2 to 3 week wait for them. I'm tempted to just get Vardars, but the noise isn't as low so i still lean towards vardars. Kinda wondering if i should just get some grey normal ones. Hard to find the PWM in normal grey though sadly...
> 
> EDIT: Well nvm, they aren't even in frickin stock at all....figures -_____- Gonna be forever before i can get my loop with proper fans fully setup.


Not too hard. Grey PWM GT from CoolerGuys on Amazon or Grey PWM GT from CoolerGuys on CoolerGuys.com


----------



## doyll

@MicroCat All system passive now except notebook. I just turned it off!







:cheers:


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @MicroCat All system passive now except notebook. I just turned it off!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


*WHEW* You're safe. For now. In future use a computer at the library to make your posts. But, wear your Ed Snowden disguise. And use his library card.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> *WHEW* You're safe. For now. In future use a computer at the library to make your posts. But, wear your Ed Snowden disguise. And use his library card.


Got it!








I have my foil hat-liner on all the time now.

When house is very quiet at night I hear the nanobots trying to get in. Any thoughts on how to deal with them?
Never mind .. don't want to hi-jack Cyclop's thread. Nanobots are too small to use fans .. I think.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Not too hard. Grey PWM GT from CoolerGuys on Amazon or Grey PWM GT from CoolerGuys on CoolerGuys.com










For some reason i didn't notice that those were PWM. I literally saw them earlier today on amazon, i guess the 2150rpm threw me off. I thought the only ones available nowadays in PWM were the 1450rpm ones.

I might pick up some of those i guess. i guess i could always plasti-dip the blades possibly, although idk if that would effect the noise ratio since i'm no professional painter or anything, an uneven coat could muck up the sound signature.

Anybody have any experience with these low RPM versions here?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185088

500rpm wouldn't be too bad honestly, but i kinda "Meh" at the ~18cfm rating (on the other hand CFM doesn't necessarily have anything to do with static pressure, so...). I'm not 100% sure, but if my new Rampage V Edition 10 is anything like the Rampage V Extreme then i'll have a hell of a time changing fan speed even on PWM fans (never works with qfan etc.. don't have room for a fan controller either.) So i kinda took a look at these.

I must admit these EK Vardar white's are quite good looking. I just noticed the nice EK logo too.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XRDFtmi2oeY/maxresdefault.jpg

I think i might grab four of these white vardar for my top 480 rad, and run my four corsair fans on the 360 rad with the remaining one as a case exhaust fan temporarily. Then i guess in the future i could nab some white edition GT's to replace the corsair. I'll have to likely use vardars for my 420mm rad too since it needs 120 fans. Sucks there's no 140mm GT's. I really hate using even the vardars since there seems to be a fairly big noise difference from video sound tests i've listened to; but meh, i guess the vardars would still be a fair improvement over the corsair SP120 quiet eidtions right?


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What makes you think that black fan blades are painted? Nidec-servo does not paint them, they manufacture them with black, gray, white plastic fan blades in black plastic housings depending on customer specifications. The thing is Nide-Servo require very large number of fans as a minimum order .. thousands at a time. This means most companies who order from them cannot afford to have too many different models / colors because of inventory costs. This is why MMM painted some their black bladed fans white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The white fan version are custom made on demand. This means they pull stock from the warehouse, un-package, disassemble, clean, paint, allow paint to cure, re-assemble, re-package them .. compared to normal all black models only needing to be pulled for stock in warehouse before shipping. That is all additional time and material expense,
> 
> The 2-3 week time-line is time needed to un-package, disassemble, clean, paint, allow paint to cure, re-assemble, re-package, pack and ship them.


The only place i've ever seen all black ones is from the modmymods darkside ones, and the wording on the title page makes them appear to be a "custom edition" so i assumed they were painted black. I never heard of servo directly making anything other than the normal grey blade color Gentle Typhoons before. Guess i was wrong?

If that's the case i can kinda see part of the extra cost. Still, awfully long wait for a fan to be painted. Especially when they won't even let you pre-order them currently for god knows how long. I've worked in a factory that had powder coating and such, and it's nowhere near that long of a wait for an order typically. Hell, if you go to Caselabs you can get an entire giant case FULLY CREATED out of bare aluminum sheets from scratch AND powder coated in ~2 to 2.5 weeks tops usually. A couple 120mm fans just seems far less labor intensive frankly. No matter how much people defend them out of favoritism or whatever i still call it how i see it. Although perhaps modmymods is alot smaller than i had anticipated, maybe it's just three guys in a garage who knows lol.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> The only place i've ever seen all black ones is from the modmymods darkside ones, and the wording on the title page makes them appear to be a "custom edition" so i assumed they were painted black. I never heard of servo directly making anything other than the normal grey blade color Gentle Typhoons before. Guess i was wrong?
> 
> If that's the case i can kinda see part of the extra cost. Still, awfully long wait for a fan to be painted. Especially when they won't even let you pre-order them currently for god knows how long. I've worked in a factory that had powder coating and such, and it's nowhere near that long of a wait for an order typically. Hell, if you go to Caselabs you can get an entire giant case FULLY CREATED out of bare aluminum sheets from scratch AND powder coated in ~2 to 2.5 weeks tops usually. A couple 120mm fans just seems far less labor intensive frankly. No matter how much people defend them out of favoritism or whatever i still call it how i see it. Although perhaps modmymods is alot smaller than i had anticipated, maybe it's just three guys in a garage who knows lol.


Do a google of Scythe Gentle Typhoon and you will see both gray and black blades.









Nidec does not always make a 'stock' fan, but often makes fans to customer specification. Their part part number code shows how it works.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> The white ones cost more because ModMyMods has to take the black ones apart, paint the blades, then put them back together again. Since the factory warranty gets blown (pardon the pun, ModMyMods will replace the warranty themselves. $6 labor for paint and labor plus picking up the warranty seems pretty reasonable to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. $6 extra per fan for a small paint job is quite a bit really, especially considering how expensive they already are and also since their "black edition" ones are ALREADY painted anyway! They could simply take the default grey ones and paint them white instead of black, so it shouldn't cost any more than the black edition if you think about it. If that is indeed what they are doing (painting the default grey ones black, then painting the black ones white) then its THEIR fault for making a frankly dumb business move and not simply painting some of the grey ones white in the first place!
> 
> idk, i might still get some; and i might not have complained about the price either....but on top of the exorbitant price for apparently no reason compared to the blacks, you have a 2 to 3 week wait for them. I'm tempted to just get Vardars, but the noise isn't as low so i still lean towards vardars. Kinda wondering if i should just get some grey normal ones. Hard to find the PWM in normal grey though sadly...
> 
> EDIT: Well nvm, they aren't even in frickin stock at all....figures -_____- Gonna be forever before i can get my loop with proper fans fully setup.
Click to expand...

You are mistaken. The "black edition" fans come with black blades, not gray blades, from the factory; ModMyMods doesn't disassemble them and paint them like they do with the ones they sell with white blades. Also, if you would read the "fine print", you would realize that the white edition will never be in stock because ModMyMods doesn't disassemble and paint them until they have received enough preorders to allow them to do a large batch, which generally takes two to three weeks. Only the 2150rpm black addition fans, which are used to make the white fan conversion, are out of stock; the 1850 rpm version is still in stock. You really need to learn some patience and to pay attention to details.

Btw, the conversion process also includes sleeving the fan leads.


----------



## viperguy212

Well you guys did it...

I ordered:

EK F4-120ER Vardar's
Phanteks PH-F120MP's
Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 2000 PWMs
And after some testing.... returned them all and got 5x GT's (1850rpm) - Black Edition PWM + black sleeving.

The EK were really nice (build wise) but made this strange/annoying metallic wining sound. The Phanteks were nice but it didn't seem like it moved too much air. Noctua's were just loud.

Oh well at least the exchange rate was in my favor


----------



## Damasterjj

I'm in the market for 120 case & cpu cooler. whats offers the low noise with high performance?


----------



## outofmyheadyo

It`s strange for so many years noone managed to make a fan to beat the gentle typhoons, what`s so hard about it ?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> I'm in the market for 120 case & cpu cooler. whats offers the low noise with high performance?


Short answer: GTs.

Long answer: It's still GTs.

GTs offer the best performance at the lowest noise of any 120mm fan I've ever used. They are legend in rad and cooler use and yet make great quiet case fans too.

Select the PWM version for the cooler. Can use the 3pin or PWM version for the case. I like to use PWM fans all round, with a PWM splitter to keep the case fans in sync with the cooler demands. However, sometimes you need a reasonably constant case flow and the low speed GTs are a treat.

Like any fan, to minimize any vibration/resonance issues suggest soft mounting them using silicon gaskets and mounts.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Wich silicone gaskets and mounts would you reccomend ? I usually just add some rubber washers under the corners.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> It`s strange for so many years noone managed to make a fan to beat the gentle typhoons, what`s so hard about it ?


My question is...what's so easy about it?

If it was easy, everyone would have a better version by now.

There's so many annoying little details involved in any optimized electro-mechanical device.

Optimizing air flow versus static pressure with the lowest possible noise and best longevity is usually a game of pick-any-two. Then there's bearing issues which have a huge bearing on the noise and lifetime of the fan. Motor design is a science and art in itself. Especially artifact-free PWM power delivery. The optimum hub to blade ratio? Blade design...more compromises than solutions. Nidec with the GTs created a very, very good set of compromises.

The EK Vardar series are the nearest 'tribute' - they are very close in performance. But, their QC processes are not up to speed - and they don't have near as smooth a noise profile as the GT, imo.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *outofmyheadyo*
> 
> Wich silicone gaskets and mounts would you reccomend ? I usually just add some rubber washers under the corners.


Those can work. It depends on the specific context. In some cases (killing myself here) the panel where the fan mounts acts like a resonator. Case in point (oh stop!), the HAF XB. To reduce resonant effects I had to use both silicon gaskets, silicon screws and some dynamat damping on the front panel.

For GTs that don't offer any frame decoupling I use either silicon gaskets like the Feser Xvibe or in some cases to practice safe low noise air flow, will use a full fan frame condom like Alphacool Susurro.

I like the Nexus silicon fan screws and Noctua ones. Have used both the Gelid and Antec ones - on a case by case basis. (one pun too far?)

Also experimented using Duxseal with decoupling shrouds.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> You are mistaken. The "black edition" fans come with black blades, not gray blades, from the factory; ModMyMods doesn't disassemble them and paint them like they do with the ones they sell with white blades. Also, if you would read the "fine print", you would realize that the white edition will never be in stock because ModMyMods doesn't disassemble and paint them until they have received enough preorders to allow them to do a large batch, which generally takes two to three weeks. Only the 2150rpm black addition fans, which are used to make the white fan conversion, are out of stock; the 1850 rpm version is still in stock. You really need to learn some patience and to pay attention to details.
> 
> Btw, the conversion process also includes sleeving the fan leads.


So i've heard. Never saw black ones years ago before they were originally discontinued. Honest mistake, they were labeled as custom "black editions" no different from the "white edition" ones, which leads one to believe they were altered. Perhaps the custom status is due to the custom sleeving (that is still offered in the $19.99 price. I've seen the black ones sleeved at 2-3 other places for the same price, so that has nothing to do with the higher $27 price on the whites)

I did read the fine print, and I never said the 2150rpm black ones were out of stock, i Clearly said i wanted the low rpm (550-1850) white versions specifically, and those were listed as out of stock as well....And there's no button to pre-order them anywhere that i can find, nor any instructions on how to pre-order at all..... Sounds like YOU need to learn patience to pay attention, especially to the comments you reply to...


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> I never said the 2150rpm black ones were out of stock, i clearly said i wanted the low rpm white versions specifically, and those were listed as out of stock....And there's no button to pre-order them..... And i've seen the black and grey ones sold sleeved for $19.99 so that doesn't really make sense. Sounds like YOU need to learn patience and to pay attention...


Hey...don't be giving the Lady any stick. She's got a beak you don't want in your face.









Speaking of beautiful beaks, the beauty of the PWM 1850rpm / 2150rpm models is that they can spin down to near silent. The 1850 PWM range goes down to 550rpm. So you get the benefit of silence at system idle and can spool up to great, smooth cooling as required. 2150rpm goes down to 900rpm, so not as quiet on the low end.

Do you have link for the $19.99 sleeved editions? PerformancePCs/Dazmode/ModMyMod all charge extra for sleeving.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm laughing here sitting at my throne, because you are all wrong.

Clearly the NF-P12 is the best fan ever made.


----------



## VSG

*In your tests on a particular heatsink at a particular airflow restriction in a particular testing methodology


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> *In your tests on a particular heatsink at a particular airflow restriction in a particular testing methodology


His throne is beyond the realm of methodologies and protocols tho.

For my GT preaching in his thread, King C has already sentenced me to fanning at the stake.

Fortunately, he'll only be using P12s so don't expect any long term hearing impact or much windburn.


----------



## Damasterjj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm laughing here sitting at my throne, because you are all wrong.
> 
> Clearly the NF-P12 is the best fan ever made.


not according to this


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> not according to this


Daz didn't test the *P*12, but the vastly inferior *F*12.

Why didn't he test the regal P12? Why indeed. Let the cheezy rumours and silly speculation begin.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm laughing here sitting at my throne, because you are all wrong.
> 
> Clearly the NF-P12 is the best fan ever made.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> *In your tests on a particular heatsink at a particular airflow restriction in a particular testing methodology


What @geggeg said.








Testing fans at only full speed with the only exceptions being using voltage reduction Noctua clearly favors Noctua fans. They are the only ones you test a less than 100% speed. Few users run their fans at 100% because most users use speed control of some sort.

As for best fan, I doubt you have a snowballs chance in hell of convincing GT owners that Nocs are better.


----------



## Cyclops

But clearly my methodology is superior to all and my fair and just reviews should be held up above all else.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> But clearly my methodology is superior to all and my fair and just reviews should be held up above all else.


Well clearly it is not impartial to all fans.
To be impartial you would need to use the voltage reduction adulators on all fans tested, not just the Nocs.

We've been over this before. Full speed test results are better than no results, but no better then if done with just a LNA or a ULNA .. although If all were done with just a LNA we would have results of fans a just mid-speed range, not just full speed .. probably more applicable to normal use in most systems.

But I do understand your test procedure is carved on stone tablets handed down over millenniums .. therefore cannot be questioned or modified meant modern circmumstances and needs.









To me it would seem logical to start doing all new testing at like maybe 3 different speeds .. maybe using the 2 noc voltage reduces.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Hey...don't be giving the Lady any stick. She's got a beak you don't want in your face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of beautiful beaks, the beauty of the PWM 1850rpm / 2150rpm models is that they can spin down to near silent. The 1850 PWM range goes down to 550rpm. So you get the benefit of silence at system idle and can spool up to great, smooth cooling as required. 2150rpm goes down to 900rpm, so not as quiet on the low end.
> 
> Do you have link for the $19.99 sleeved editions? PerformancePCs/Dazmode/ModMyMod all charge extra for sleeving.


I give what i receive, no more no less









It seems that most of the places that had pre-sleeved ones are out of stock now unfortunately; so perhaps my statement was only correct in the past (been some time since i hunted for fans lol) Sidewinder even had them for $16.50 for sleeved AP-13, AP-14, and AP-15's (they did charge ~$1 for the sleeving, but had them perpetually on ~$5-6 discount [$15 per GT fan unsleeved] so it more than cancels out the ~$1 they charged to sleeve). FrozenCPU did have the sleeved ones, but doesn't have any Gentle Typhoons listed anymore, except for the AP-11 500rpm ones (i wonder if those are any good at all, i think not at such low rpm but you never know lol...and despite not being a fan of FrozenCPUs nonsense as of late i can't resist dat Bawls Guarana G33k B33r they offer with each order lol)

I'll see if i can find some other pre-sleeved ones though.

I'm kinda stuck between getting the VERY nice looking Vadar F4 120ER All White Editions (would look FANTASTIC in my SMA8 with white fluid + black rads and my Rampage V Black Edition 10 with white LED etc..) or just getting some form of GT's. I really love that white look on the Vadars, but the Vadars appear to have some kinda motor noise, and are just overall louder than GT's. The GT's PERFORM slightly better while also being a fair bit quieter, but don't come in all white, and even the white fan blade one's don't seem to be available for even pre-ordering (sent a message to ModMyMods on facebook and they told me to send an email to sales, haven't heard back from the email yet) especially for the crazy price. ($27 for a fan is just too much for me, i MIGHT consider it if they were ALL white including the outer casing, like the F4ER's are, but idk....)

Would you say the Vardars are the best noise/perf ratio choice for 140mm's? I'm thinking of either

A) Getting 4 x Vardar F4ER White Edition for my top 480 rad. Moving my 4 x Corsair SP120 QE's to my front 360 rad with the remaining SP120 as an exhaust case fan. Then getting whatever quality 140 i can get decently priced (presumably Vardars again...HATE that there's no white edition 140's







)

or B) Getting 3 x Gentle Typhoon (either AP-13 1150rpm ones or the 550-1850 PWM ones) for my front 360 rad, and keep my SP120's on the top 480 rad for now (possibly replaced by Vardar F4ER whites later on) and then get the quality 140 etc.. for the bottom 420 rad.


----------



## MicroCat

@DarkIdeals
The Vardar 140mm, assuming you get ones without bearing issues, are one of the better performance-to-noise rad fans. If you value a little more silence, in white, then the NB B14-PS might be the better choice. They are 29mm thick, so there's that.

If the whites of your eye must be satisfied in nothing but white, then the Phanteks HP is available with white blades and frame. Not the best rad fans, but far from the worst - at least on par or better than the Aerocools that you seem fond of, despite their ambiguous black and white theme. Pick one Aerocool!









Regarding your A) and B) dilemma...well...good luck with that - it's your eyes and ears. The EK F4ERs are gorgeous in white - the GTs are gorgeous on the ears in black.









The best way to solve that dilemma is to audition both the Vardars and GTs in your rig. My opinions, while totally valid (to me), won't provide anything more to you than a few signposts on the road to mangled blade metaphors.









Buying more fans than you will use is good for the economy and for your fan closet collection. Can't put a price on that. (Until checkout)


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> @DarkIdeals
> The Vardar 140mm, assuming you get ones without bearing issues, are one of the better performance-to-noise rad fans. If you value a little more silence, in white, then the NB B14-PS might be the better choice. They are 29mm thick, so there's that.
> 
> If the whites of your eye must be satisfied in nothing but white, then the Phanteks HP is available with white blades and frame. Not the best rad fans, but far from the worst - at least on par or better than the Aerocools that you seem fond of, despite their ambiguous black and white theme. Pick one Aerocool!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding your A) and B) dilemma...well...good luck with that - it's your eyes and ears. The EK F4ERs are gorgeous in white - the GTs are gorgeous on the ears in black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best way to solve that dilemma is to audition both the Vardars and GTs in your rig. My opinions, while totally valid (to me), won't provide anything more to you than a few signposts on the road to mangled blade metaphors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buying more fans than you will use is good for the economy and for your fan closet collection. Can't put a price on that. (Until checkout)


Damnit Micro! What is it with you and recommending me the most expensive fans that are too tempting to pass up?!?!?







The 140 NB E-loops are quite good looking imo (not quite on the F4ER white 120 level but still quite nice.) but damn if it aint another $28 fan.....-____-









Thinking of getting three of those Noise Blocker 140's for my 420 rad, i'm needing some CL Liquid Ultra metal paste for when i delid my i7 6800K that just came anyway, and it's cheapest to order it at PPCS and ship all together.

Just need to decide on what to do about the remaining 3 or 4 fan slots left: F4ER whites, or GT's..... I guess i'm thinking of sticking the three noiseblockers on the 420 rad, then ordering three of the GT's for my 360 rad, and leaving the four SP120's on my top 480 rad. Then at the very least i would have all of my rad space slots covered with "decent" to "great" fans, which combined with the 6-8C temp drop LGA2011 delidding should net me, might help me hit 4.5ghz at a safe temp/voltage level on the 6800K.

I could always sell the four SP120's later on (or add them to a MO-RA3 if i get one) and replace them with more GT or Vardar 120's lol.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Damnit Micro! What is it with you and recommending me the most expensive fans that are too tempting to pass up?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 140 NB E-loops are quite good looking imo (not quite on the F4ER white 120 level but still quite nice.) but damn if it aint another $28 fan.....-____-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking of getting three of those Noise Blocker 140's for my 420 rad, i'm needing some CL Liquid Ultra metal paste for when i delid my i7 6800K that just came anyway, and it's cheapest to order it at PPCS and ship all together.
> 
> Just need to decide on what to do about the remaining 3 or 4 fan slots left: F4ER whites, or GT's..... I guess i'm thinking of sticking the three noiseblockers on the 420 rad, then ordering three of the GT's for my 360 rad, and leaving the four SP120's on my top 480 rad. Then at the very least i would have all of my rad space slots covered with "decent" to "great" fans, which combined with the 6-8C temp drop LGA2011 delidding should net me, might help me hit 4.5ghz at a safe temp/voltage level on the 6800K.
> 
> I could always sell the four SP120's later on (or add them to a MO-RA3 if i get one) and replace them with more GT or Vardar 120's lol.


Sorry, it's what I do, $30 solutions to $5 problems. It's a cat thing.









Delidding a soldered chip - you have nerves of steel, sir. Or you're just OCD about temps.









Did you get a Broadwell-E at random or a SL-certified model, in white? ;-)


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Sorry, it's what I do, $30 solutions to $5 problems. It's a cat thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delidding a soldered chip - you have nerves of steel, sir. Or you're just OCD about temps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get a Broadwell-E at random or a SL-certified model, in white? ;-)


(lol at the white part.)

Yes i did get a silicon lottery certified one. 4.4ghz @ 1.344v or lower specifically. Hoping to get 4.5ghz at under 1.4v for a nice 24/7 overclock (and to get that you need to curb the high temps as much as possible), as a 4.5ghz Broadwell is equal to a whopping 4.85ghz 5820K performance wise! Haven't put it in my system yet though. Want to run a few more tests and benchmarks etc.. on the 5960X before i do so i can compare them better.

I've been talking with the overclocker 8pack for a while about Broadwell-E and we're testing some methods of Broadwell-E and Haswell-E delidding that have worked quite well. he's delidded eight haswell-e and broadwell-e CPU's, including a 5960X and 6950X, without any of them dying so far. I think the tool isn't going to be sold publicly but i'm likely going to be using one in the coming weeks on my chips so i can help with his testing.

Figuring on delidding the 6800K, and maybe the 5960X if it works well (assuming i don't sell the 5960X before then with how cheaply i have it priced) It's a kind of variation of the vice method, but uses a specially CNC'ed tool that clamps the CPU down and then pushes the IHS 1mm or so in each direction from the side which loosens the solder and silicon glue holding the IHS on without need for melting it first. The trick is pushing the solder from the SIDE instead of trying to lift it UP. Lifting UP will rip the die in half, but pushing from the side a TINY bit, then from the opposite side etc.. will loosen the indium solder enough to lift the IHS off. Then after applying liquid metal paste (he used thermal grizzly conductonaut which is more like Phobya LM or CL Liquid Pro, i'm gonna use Cool Laboratory Liquid Ultra which is about ~1-1.5C lower than those in many cases, and easier to apply etc..) gets you between 8 and 10C drops on Haswell-E and between 6 and 8C on Broadwell-E

(Specifically testing has shown an ~8C drop in average temps and a ~10C drop in max temps on the i7 5960X with full load while overclocked. And on an i7 6950X 10 core he got 6C drop in average temps and 8C drop in max temps with full load and overclocked. This was also on AIR COOLED setup too, so on water, or light TEC etc.. cooling you could see possibly even larger temp differences)

The interesting thing is that it proves wrong all the conventional knowledge about soldered CPUs.

1st) That soldered CPUs CAN NOT be delidded at all without VERY significant risk of destroying the die. (the only FAILURE so far was knocking one or two small capacitors off the outer edge, that only have a very slight effect on the IMC, so might lower your max cache/uncore overclock but the chip works fine. The other seven weren't damaged at all iirc)

2nd) That solder is equivalent to the very best thermal pastes or even better when it comes to temperatures due to the high thermal conductivity of indium used in the solder. The reason we get LOWER temps when using liquid metal paste after removing the solder is that the solder is TOO THICK! Intel uses an absurdly thin PCB and makes up for it by making it a multi-layer PCB to strengthen it. This means that the indium solder has to be over 1mm thick! Which is the same as putting a super thick layer of too much thermal paste on; it actually INSULATES the chip making it HOTTER.


----------



## MicroCat

I was just reading about 8pack's tool over on anand earlier today. Made my stomach churn a bit. Not letting that tool near my Xeons!
Good point about the amount of solder and as seen excessive the gap on 20/14nm 4 square cores. Intel over-does it, I think, because of manufacturing tolerances - cheaper to add a little more solder/TIM and slop on some extra adhesive rather than ensuring every chip has a consistent minimal gap from the die to IHS.

Admire your pursuit of lower temps and higher clocks, even if the method causes nausea and fainting in some.









Maybe start a new thread with your results - no pictures tho, please.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I was just reading about 8pack's tool over on anand earlier today. Made my stomach churn a bit. Not letting that tool near my Xeons!
> Good point about the amount of solder and as seen excessive the gap on 20/14nm 4 square cores. Intel over-does it, I think, because of manufacturing tolerances - cheaper to add a little more solder/TIM and slop on some extra adhesive rather than ensuring every chip has a consistent minimal gap from the die to IHS.
> 
> Admire your pursuit of lower temps and higher clocks, even if the method causes nausea and fainting in some.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe start a new thread with your results - no pictures tho, please.


lol, yeah i planned to start a thread about it. I'm doing a new "version 2.0" build log to my "Disparity" PC build that i originally did. I originally had a Corsair 900D with a Rampage IV Black Edition + i7 4820K quad core LGA 2011 (soldered as well) with 16gb of DDR3 Dom Plat's, and 2 way SLI Gigabyte G1 970's with EK blocks etc..etc.. then after the whole 970 3.5gb fiasco i had my shipped to my lawyer who is handling the class action suit about those cards and got some 980 Kingpins only for the TITAN X to come out like 2 weeks later so i sold off those and got SLI TITAN X's. Never did show a finished build though as my cameras were ALL strangely failing one after another at that time (even my crappy potato of a laptop webcam lol)

I eventually ended up swapping out the 900D for a Caselabs SMA8, upping my radiator count to the 480, 420, 360 setup i have now, and getting a Rampage V Extreme + 16gb DDR4 2666mhz Dom Plat's, and an i7 5960X to help with my video editing and rendering for youtube and twitch streaming etc..etc.. and the college courses i was taking at the time.

Now my plan is to move to an i7 6800K to get a compromise by having the higher single threaded and gaming performance from the increased IPC of Broadwell, yet retaining MOST of the multi-threaded perf of the 5960X; assuming that a 4.5ghz 6800K should be quite close to a stock 5960X even in rendering and such. Got my MSI Gaming X GTX 1080 that i can overclock to 2,150mhz on air (highest OC i've seen so far on air. One or two others can hit 2,150-2,152 or so but not higher from what i've seen) considering getting a 2nd one and putting those on EK waterblocks but idk might just wait for the 1080 TI that will likely be out by end of this year.

Interestingly enough, the ~$30 intel tuning plan is surprisingly "nonchalant" with the return scrutiny. I've talked to a couple people who have delidded their i7 4790K etc.. and Intel didn't ask any questions and gave them a replacement with no issues after they fried the chip. (one of them even destroyed the chip BECAUSE of their attempt at delidding and got a replacement). And if you think about it, Intel is likely so cocky about their "good work" at soldering the die on the Broadwell-E chips that they would never suspect that i even tried to delid a 6800K let alone SUCEEDED at it; so they probably would never even CHECK it! So i'm thinking of just getting the tuning plan and if the chip dies i can try to get it replaced that way.

Ironically though, Indium is VERY expensive! It costs something like $2-5 per mg or something similar. So each chip that they solder has an added cost of like $8-10 with all the solder they add on it; which is part of why they don't solder the LGA 1150/1151 etc.. CPUs like the 4690K, 6600K, 6700K, 4790K etc.. since it would add up over the millions of CPU they sell and cut profits by a couple percent in the long run. But you would THINK that with how expensive it is, they'd pay a bit more attention to how much they use on each CPU lol...apparently not though.


----------



## doyll

8Pack is a very strange duck .. and that's is saying it with lots of control. Can he achieve extreme overclocks, indeed he can. But that seems to be the extent of his abilities .. in my opinion. My i7 6700K when first mounted ran about 8c hotter than it did after about 6 weeks of use. When I asked 8Pack and explained I test and review lots of coolers, and this gradual lowering of temp seemed abnormal his reply was I was making mistakes mounting and testing. No other possible reason was considered. My guess is it was a result of chip to IHS TIM seating, but he would not even consider it as a possibility. I only noticed it because of re-mounting same cooler every time I test to verify baseline idle & load test temps. Normally my baseline temps are within a margin of error of less than +/-0.1c. While I use +/-1c margin of error in cooler test results to allow for anything I might not be recording accurate enough (humidity, barometric pressure, air & CPU temps, instrument accuracy, etc), this gradual drop in CPU temp far exceeded this. But it all fits into who 8Pack works for, OcUK. OcUK is the company that supplied their TIM product line to another of their fraternity to test and review ... testing that didn't even monitor and record the room ambient temp while testing the TIMs .. in fact did not even have a thermometer in the room!! This 'review' was pinned (still is pinned) at the top of their "Overclocking & Cooling" section. The lack of a baseline temperature was pointed out shortly after the 'review' was first posted, but it still remains the 2nd post in that forum over 4 years later as. Sorry, but a company and it's employees who promote a review of TIM heat transfer with no baseline temperature on their forum website shows me an extreme lack of credibility. This applies for anyone who is an employee of that company as well.


----------



## Cyclops

I've delidded a couple dozen processors over the years. I've always used Liquid Pro and temperatures have never gone back up after the "surgery". The stuff works.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've delidded a couple dozen processors over the years. I've always used Liquid Pro and temperatures have never gone back up after the "surgery". The stuff works.


What are you talking out?
True, delidding does not increase heat. But CPU temps are stable before delid and after delid. My 6700K got slowly cooler from day of install ffor abut 6 weeks. Now it is stable. Like the chip to IHS TIM took time to seat.

But not all CPU series respond the same to delidding. Newer released series typically only improve about half as much as older ones do.


----------



## DarkIdeals

So i contacted modmymods since the pre-order button was gone from the white Gentle Typhoons. He said that he took down the button since there wasn't much demand recently. He said if they get demand enough for twenty fans that they will set things up. Thought i'd mention for any of you guys on here interested in getting some of the white GTs.

Send an email to [email protected] if you want some


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> So i contacted modmymods since the pre-order button was gone from the white Gentle Typhoons. He said that he took down the button since there wasn't much demand recently. He said if they get demand enough for twenty fans that they will set things up. Thought i'd mention for any of you guys on here interested in getting some of the white GTs.
> 
> Send an email to [email protected] if you want some


Suggest you start a new bright white thread here and in waterpool forum for the great whites.


----------



## MrMD

I know this thread is primary or 120/140mm fans,but can someone recommend a 92mm fans thats silent at its starting voltage/pwm cycle.

Need two of them to put below a gpu to cool the vrms.Silence at idle is my only priority. 3 or 4 pin doesnt matter,i could make either work.

Cheers guys


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Suggest you start a new bright white thread here and in waterpool forum for the great whites.


I am doing just that actually! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Premium-Magnetic-Levitation-CO-9050041-WW/dp/B01G5I6MUW

I think the GT's might ACTUALLY have some competition from these. They got rid of the stupid round design that didn't seal on rads properly, they updated design of the blades to provide just as good static pressure but with higher CFM, added multiple changeable anti-vibration mounts on the corners (in white!







), and they use MAGNETIC LEVITATING bearing technology to reduce the annoying motor tick sound that most good fans are plagued with due to the actual air noise being gone making it more noticeable. And of course they have optional versions with LED's....(in white!







)

I got three of them for now....kinda regretting not snatching up a 4th honestly....but i'm not loaded here and they are $27 fans. I can use my current SP120's on the 480 rad for now, and put these on my 360 rad; prolly gonna get three of the NB E-loop 140's for my 420 rad to finish things off. Then at the very least i'll have decent to good fans on every rad space location (currently i only have the four SP120 and two junk fans on it, the rest is empty "passive rad" space, which kinda explains my high temps lol)

Really looking forward to trying these fans, looks like Corsair is FINALLY stepping up their fan game...

And If they turn out to be duds (i dunno, something about these oozes "better-than-last-time" quality lol) then i'l just be the sacrificial guinea-pig for the thread right?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> I am doing just that actually! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Premium-Magnetic-Levitation-CO-9050041-WW/dp/B01G5I6MUW
> 
> I think the GT's might ACTUALLY have some competition from these. They got rid of the stupid round design that didn't seal on rads properly, they updated design of the blades to provide just as good static pressure but with higher CFM, added multiple changeable anti-vibration mounts on the corners (in white!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and they use MAGNETIC LEVITATING MOTORS to reduce the annoying motor tick sound that most good fans are plagued with due to the actual air noise being gone making it more noticeable. And of course they have LED's....(in white!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> I got three of them for now....kinda regretting not snatching up a 4th honestly....but i'm not loaded here and they are $27 fans. I can use my current SP120's on the 480 rad for now, and put these on my 360 rad; prolly gonna get three of the NB E-loop 140's for my 420 rad to finish things off. Then at the very least i'll have decent to good fans on every rad space location (currently i only have the four SP120 and two junk fans on it, the rest is empty "passive rad" space, which kinda explains my high temps lol)
> 
> Really looking forward to trying these fans, looks like Corsair is FINALLY stepping up their fan game...
> 
> And If they turn out to be duds (i dunno, something about these oozes "better-than-last-time" quality lol) then i'l just be the sacrificial guinea-pig for the thread right?


Interesting.

Sorry you are the guinea pig.









The old adage "Don't believe what you hear and only half of or what you see" comes to mind .. It's becoming near impossible to tell a real recorded video from a computer generated one.









I've seen far too many hyped up new releases go pear shaped as soon as they reach end-users' hands to buy anything before known competent testers and reviewers as well as us, the consumer, use them. I mean actual production run product testing, not pre-release test samples. We all know these are not really Corsiar fans, even if they did part of the research and design. Some third-party is manufacturing them, and we all now how that can easily great pre-release sample test results become a fiasco of problems in released product .. like all the problems EK had with their Vardar fans, Corsair with the H110 recall, H100 pump and control issues, their TX series PSUs with "ultra-quiet fan" that could be heard 2-3 meters away at idle that was know for years before they changed it to not run at all at idle, etc. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate corsail, but I'm definitely not believing their advertising hype .. and that goes for at least 9 out of ten of the other companies out there.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Interesting.
> But I've seen far too many new releases go pear shaped to buy anything before known competent testers and reviewers use them. I mean actual production run product testing, not pre-release test samples. We all know these are not really Corsiar fans, even if they did part of the research and design. Some third-party is manufacturing them, and we all now how that can easily great pre-release sample test results become a fiasco of problems in released product .. like all the problems EK had with their Vardar fans, Corsair with the H110 recall, H100 pump and control issues, their TX series PSUs with "ultra-quiet fan" that could be heard 2-3 meters away at idle that was know for years before they changed it to not run at all at idle, etc. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate corsail, but I'm definitely not believing their advertising hype .. and that goes for at least 9 out of ten of the other companies out there.


Yeah i agree, you never know till testing is out. But i needed fans, and choices for white fans are pretty limited; specifically quiet ones with good static pressure. My only choice really is the EK F4ER all whites which are kinda known for having motor tick noise (and like you said EK has had issues throughout the releases over all the vadars to some degree), so when i saw these i thought it was quite interesting. You must admit a magnetic levitating motor design would indeed reduce noise, and i spoke to some people who were at computex and read some initial review info about them saying they were quite quiet even with nearly 30 of them running at once at the booth even at the quieter hours without many people making noise in the area etc..

The only reason the SP120's weren't a top tier fan was pretty obvious

A) They had a rather bizarre shape, even for a round fan; which has notoriously caused a bad "seal" around a radiator, causing air-leaking that as you can imagine lowered the actual airflow and static pressure going through the rad itself, and thus deteriorated performance overall.

B) They had a "slightly" inferior overall CFM rating and at real low RPM the static pressure wasn't QUITE up to par with the better fans out there.

C) In order to combat "problem B" you would simply raise the RPM to ~1300+ as an example, but that would result in them losing a fair bit of the quietness they were known for at their sub-1000 and even ~1000-1200rpm ranges. You had the SP120 Quiet Editions that gave low noise at the expense of max CFM/MMH2O presure, and then you had the SP120 High Performance which eschewed quietness in the form of added motor and air noise in order to make up that lost pressure/airflow. So it was a catch22....neither fan had "everything" like quality pressure optimized fans like the Gentle Typhoon do.

This design "appears" to fix all these issues at least somewhat. They have a very practical square-esque shape like pretty much all the top tier SP optimized 120's do, with blades that do a pretty good job of covering edge to edge (of course not like the NB E-loop with its crazy connected blade stuff but hey not everyone is so artistic lol), while still maintaining some contours to the housing which Corsair has said in the past is partly responsible for their secret sauce of good pressure optimized fans: which should solve Problem A of the SP120's, the bad seal on radiators.

The fans are PWM with a very large rpm range of 400-2400rpm and redesigned blades that tout higher on paper CFM and SP max ratings (at least iirc) which should solve problem B.

They have the magnetic levitating design which will definitely result in at least marginally quieter operating noise, helping solve problem C, allowing you to crank these to, say maybe ~1,500rpm and still only be as loud as SP120's were at ~1000-1100rpm perhaps.

Of course it could turn out they're just a giant gimmick, but thats why i said i'll be the guine-pig of the forum for a bit. I can always return them within the 30 day amazon return period if they aren't decent. And plus, if they are better than the SP120 but not quite on par with like the GT's and Vadar etc.. i could always sell my four SP120's or something and keep these as an upgrade both in performance and aesthetics (white leds and white grommets!!!) over the 120's, and get some GT's, vardars, or NB e-loops etc.. for the rest of the rig.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Yeah i agree, you never know till testing is out. But i needed fans, and choices for white fans are pretty limited; specifically quiet ones with good static pressure. My only choice really is the EK F4ER all whites which are kinda known for having motor tick noise (and like you said EK has had issues throughout the releases over all the vadars to some degree), so when i saw these i thought it was quite interesting. You must admit a magnetic levitating motor design would indeed reduce noise, and i spoke to some people who were at computex and read some initial review info about them saying they were quite quiet even with nearly 30 of them running at once at the booth even at the quieter hours without many people making noise in the area etc..
> 
> The only reason the SP120's weren't a top tier fan was pretty obvious
> 
> A) They had a rather bizarre shape, even for a round fan; which has notoriously caused a bad "seal" around a radiator, causing air-leaking that as you can imagine lowered the actual airflow and static pressure going through the rad itself, and thus deteriorated performance overall.
> 
> B) They had a "slightly" inferior overall CFM rating and at real low RPM the static pressure wasn't QUITE up to par with the better fans out there.
> 
> C) In order to combat "problem B" you would simply raise the RPM to ~1300+ as an example, but that would result in them losing a fair bit of the quietness they were known for at their sub-1000 and even ~1000-1200rpm ranges. You had the SP120 Quiet Editions that gave low noise at the expense of max CFM/MMH2O presure, and then you had the SP120 High Performance which eschewed quietness in the form of added motor and air noise in order to make up that lost pressure/airflow. So it was a catch22....neither fan had "everything" like quality pressure optimized fans like the Gentle Typhoon do.
> 
> This design "appears" to fix all these issues at least somewhat. They have a very practical square-esque shape like pretty much all the top tier SP optimized 120's do, with blades that do a pretty good job of covering edge to edge (of course not like the NB E-loop with its crazy connected blade stuff but hey not everyone is so artistic lol), while still maintaining some contours to the housing which Corsair has said in the past is partly responsible for their secret sauce of good pressure optimized fans: which should solve Problem A of the SP120's, the bad seal on radiators.
> 
> The fans are PWM with a very large rpm range of 400-2400rpm and redesigned blades that tout higher on paper CFM and SP max ratings (at least iirc) which should solve problem B.
> 
> They have the magnetic levitating design which will definitely result in at least marginally quieter operating noise, helping solve problem C, allowing you to crank these to, say maybe ~1,500rpm and still only be as loud as SP120's were at ~1000-1100rpm perhaps.
> 
> Of course it could turn out they're just a giant gimmick, but thats why i said i'll be the guine-pig of the forum for a bit. I can always return them within the 30 day amazon return period if they aren't decent. And plus, if they are better than the SP120 but not quite on par with like the GT's and Vadar etc.. i could always sell my four SP120's or something and keep these as an upgrade both in performance and aesthetics (white leds and white grommets!!!) over the 120's, and get some GT's, vardars, or NB e-loops etc.. for the rest of the rig.


Well, at the end of the day we can always agree that at least they look nice.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Well, at the end of the day we can always agree that at least they look nice.


lol, indeed we can









Really looking forward to seeing these Pro model with the white LEDs in my system.

I'll report some numbers once i change these fans in so you guys can get a rough amateur-tested idea of how they perform compared to the SP120's etc.. and my Noctua NF-F12 2000rpm Indust. ones.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Finally satisfied with some fans the darkside gt 1850 pwm-s arrived and they sound exactly as I remembered, pleasant.


----------



## slavovid

Greetings guys. Recently i stumbled upon a problem with my fans. I had replaced them with 3 silent ones and everything was running cool and quiet untill i decided i want to OC my CPU a little.
Long storry short turns out when i put heavy load on stock i run above the normal temperatures.
Eventually i replaced the new ones - Fractal design silent series R2/3 with my old fans that run on max 2k rpm NB-BlackSilentFan
120mm but they are atm running a bit loud because they are old thus i am looking for new fans.

Unfortunately i looked up the top like 10 fans but none fo them is available to my country









I am interested if you can estimate if a specific fan i am looking at will be providing enough performance for it's low price








ZALMAN ZM-F3-FDB
there are other zalamans in the test but this one isn't and i saw one of the zalmans with similar name is close to the silent series R2/3 and if that is the case it will be pointless to do anything
Found a testing bench that says that this particular zalaman has good static pressure but i am unaware of how that compares to the 2k RPM NB's that are still working.
I'd love to keep the NB's but one of them is working but the board is not detecting it so i guess is running on low below 2k rpm (is there any workaround into fixing that)

Another option that is rly half the price of the above 2 that seems fair is DeepCool WIND BLADE 120 according to the specs it has 1300 RPM with 65.16CFM

help










I did some more research the tester here http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485/5 states 2.65 static pressure for that Zalman fan and according to the specs on the Noice Blocker i have at 2k rpm it has 2.79


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Greetings guys. Recently i stumbled upon a problem with my fans. I had replaced them with 3 silent ones and everything was running cool and quiet untill i decided i want to OC my CPU a little.
> Long storry short turns out when i put heavy load on stock i run above the normal temperatures.
> Eventually i replaced the new ones - Fractal design silent series R2/3 with my old fans that run on max 2k rpm NB-BlackSilentFan
> 120mm but they are atm running a bit loud because they are old thus i am looking for new fans.
> 
> Unfortunately i looked up the top like 10 fans but none fo them is available to my country
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am interested if you can estimate if a specific fan i am looking at will be providing enough performance for it's low price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZALMAN ZM-F3-FDB
> there are other zalamans in the test but this one isn't and i saw one of the zalmans with similar name is close to the silent series R2/3 and if that is the case it will be pointless to do anything
> Found a testing bench that says that this particular zalaman has good static pressure but i am unaware of how that compares to the 2k RPM NB's that are still working.
> I'd love to keep the NB's but one of them is working but the board is not detecting it so i guess is running on low below 2k rpm (is there any workaround into fixing that)
> 
> Another option that is rly half the price of the above 2 that seems fair is DeepCool WIND BLADE 120 according to the specs it has 1300 RPM with 65.16CFM
> 
> help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some more research the tester here http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485/5 states 2.65 static pressure for that Zalman fan and according to the specs on the Noice Blocker i have at 2k rpm it has 2.79


Fractal R2/R3 are only good for light cooling on cases.
What I see missing is what temps are you getting that are above normal?

To get a better idea, need to know your case (fan orientation and how many)
What is your CPU/GPU and the heatsinks used?


----------



## slavovid

PCfans.jpg 997k .jpg file
I was only asking about the fans as i am not sure if the specs those guys put on their sites actually are real. I can see the fractal silent ones ... and they were silent at 1200/900 rpm were not rly doing what i needed them to i am using a Thermalright Inferno IFX-14 CPU old one on a FX 8350 + M5A99FX PRO R2.0 and after lurking here for 1-2 months for news about the RX 480 eventually i decided that i can play with OC on the FX while waiting for partherns to release their versions of the RX since aparently the refference is kind a too noisy - bad cooling.

So i tried some OC booted and went in to check my temps but as soon as i loaded the CPU at 8x100% cores it reachd 60-61-62-63C (reached it for 4-5min) so i stopped it asap and went back and removed the OC. Logged back in and similar temps







so first thought is that i messed the thermal paste checked in didn't had any left called a friend at 9 pm friday night to open his shop and get me a good quality tube .... applied carefull temps were still going up even thou slightly slower (for 6 min reached 62) and then i thought it's the heatsink maybe opened the case and had my hand there to feel if it delivers heat up while i load the CPU ... and it's fins were getting hotter but .... i noticed or DIDN'T notice air moving even thou the fans were working at max









the case is big old branded "spire"







but has been ok for years. I have a fan at front bottom for suction then 1 on the thermalright and one in the back.
After i noticed the problematic air i removed the 2 fractals 2/3 without the one in the front because i have to remove all the drives cables and stuff to reach it as it's behind the drives bay and put my 3 old fans noiseblocker 120mm nb-blacksilentfan xlp pwm they are still working one of them is not being registered by the MB has some issue on the fan i guess but they are no longer silent as they used to be when i bought them... i can hear the bearings








- hence i replaced them this winter with the Fractals R2/R3 but aparently i was stupid because i thought that they will be doing similar job

with the NB's (that i put 1 at the back case and 2 on the thermalright (because one wasn't registering and i just strapped the 2-nd one there and plugged the first in an optional jack to not get errors
Now on Full 100% load the CPU is running at 45C for 15-20min with no change.

Oh fan orientation will mark with red where the front fan is on the picture and it is sucking while the other 3 are blowing towards the back to get the air out.

I am tempted to get 3 new NB's i found them for 11 Eu each on a retailer here but those 3 i have have worked for not more than 2-3 years or less about 10h a day and they are atm at 1500 rpm sounding like if they were on 2500







the Zalman ZM-F3-FDB i found is even cheaper 9 Eu and that test there shows it at 2.65 static pressure at max rpm that is 1500 and that soinds great compared to the 2.79 of the NB at 2000 Rpm further more the zalman he says at full load is 23 db and that could mean slightly less airflow than the NB's but at sound level of the Fractals (R2 is hydraulic bearing aswell)

So am hoping for imput if that 2.65 static pressure would be sufficient to replace the noise blocker
Even thou the NB's specs state they provide slightly more airflow and static pressure than the Zalman i am more inclined to trust the bench results from that test i linked in my previous comment.
the Zalman that is being tested in the OP post at the start of this thread is not the same

P.S. on the picture - the power cables are kind a short to reach everywhere as i replaced that PSU a few weeks ago on a rush on a saturday because my old one died







And this new one has short cables








also the HDD on the bottom is there because it's #8 and the Board's 8-th sata conector is at the back some sort of strange double standard







But it's an old 200GB drive that i use to download stuff before i move it to other drives. temps on all the HDD on iddle right now with the Fractal being the fan at the front of the chasis are: from 27C to 40C


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

We do have issues and it is not the fans.
The main problem is your case. So replacing your fans is going to do little to change your temps.

The front fan does nothing for airflow, the HDD cage blocks airflow. Also wiring is also restricting airflow.
With the type of system you have, you need a new case that can cool your system.
Those temps are normal for 100% load. That is quiet a bite of HDD, maybe go less with larger space.
If you get a new case, most have limited HDD space.

If you see my case and build you will notice much better airflow.


----------



## slavovid

The case front slots for CD/DVD are 2/3 free and there is a filter there too so more air can come inside. I know i could get a better case better heatsink better fans better CPU even







but my current budget is for replacing a GTX 650 and can't rly afford anything else. Buying 3 new fans is a bit tight even since i bought 3 new fans 5-6 months ago

as i said replacing the fractals with the old NB's got me from going upwards to 60+ to static 45 at full load. That seems fine considering it's mid summer and it's 27C room temperature.

I just want an advice about replacing the NB's with maybe that Zalman i am thinking of getting 1-2 to place at the front and at the heatsink while leaving an R2 fractal at the back end chasis since it has low static pressure but would hopefully keep up with the airflow
or should i prioritize the back chasis + the heatsink

the fractals are quite new they don't even have dust on them albeit being used for 6 months.


----------



## epic1337

he already said it, you're already at the limit of your best result.
even if you end up using the noiser, stronger fans, your temps wont improve much.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Greetings guys. Recently i stumbled upon a problem with my fans. I had replaced them with 3 silent ones and everything was running cool and quiet untill i decided i want to OC my CPU a little.
> Long storry short turns out when i put heavy load on stock i run above the normal temperatures.
> Eventually i replaced the new ones - Fractal design silent series R2/3 with my old fans that run on max 2k rpm NB-BlackSilentFan
> 120mm but they are atm running a bit loud because they are old thus i am looking for new fans.
> 
> Unfortunately i looked up the top like 10 fans but none fo them is available to my country
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am interested if you can estimate if a specific fan i am looking at will be providing enough performance for it's low price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZALMAN ZM-F3-FDB
> there are other zalamans in the test but this one isn't and i saw one of the zalmans with similar name is close to the silent series R2/3 and if that is the case it will be pointless to do anything
> Found a testing bench that says that this particular zalaman has good static pressure but i am unaware of how that compares to the 2k RPM NB's that are still working.
> I'd love to keep the NB's but one of them is working but the board is not detecting it so i guess is running on low below 2k rpm (is there any workaround into fixing that)
> 
> Another option that is rly half the price of the above 2 that seems fair is DeepCool WIND BLADE 120 according to the specs it has 1300 RPM with 65.16CFM
> 
> help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some more research the tester here http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485/5 states 2.65 static pressure for that Zalman fan and according to the specs on the Noice Blocker i have at 2k rpm it has 2.79


You can't beat the Swiftech Helix fans for the price. Seriously, testing shows that they perform darn close to like Gentle Typhoons etc.. just without being as quiet. They are only like $8 in some places too! Worth checking out, especially if the fans are going to be used on a heatsink or radiator.

EDIT: just noticed that you are in europe? If so then the noiseblockers should be a lot cheaper than they are for us in USA, and are a good deal too. If you need real good static pressure i'd still look into the Swiftech's for a budget fan, if you just need an all around good fan the NB E-loops are great if you can find them low priced.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> PCfans.jpg 997k .jpg file
> I was only asking about the fans as i am not sure if the specs those guys put on their sites actually are real. I can see the fractal silent ones ... and they were silent at 1200/900 rpm were not rly doing what i needed them to i am using a Thermalright Inferno IFX-14 CPU old one on a FX 8350 + M5A99FX PRO R2.0 and after lurking here for 1-2 months for news about the RX 480 eventually i decided that i can play with OC on the FX while waiting for partherns to release their versions of the RX since aparently the refference is kind a too noisy - bad cooling.
> 
> So i tried some OC booted and went in to check my temps but as soon as i loaded the CPU at 8x100% cores it reachd 60-61-62-63C (reached it for 4-5min) so i stopped it asap and went back and removed the OC. Logged back in and similar temps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so first thought is that i messed the thermal paste checked in didn't had any left called a friend at 9 pm friday night to open his shop and get me a good quality tube .... applied carefull temps were still going up even thou slightly slower (for 6 min reached 62) and then i thought it's the heatsink maybe opened the case and had my hand there to feel if it delivers heat up while i load the CPU ... and it's fins were getting hotter but .... i noticed or DIDN'T notice air moving even thou the fans were working at max
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the case is big old branded "spire"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but has been ok for years. I have a fan at front bottom for suction then 1 on the thermalright and one in the back.
> After i noticed the problematic air i removed the 2 fractals 2/3 without the one in the front because i have to remove all the drives cables and stuff to reach it as it's behind the drives bay and put my 3 old fans noiseblocker 120mm nb-blacksilentfan xlp pwm they are still working one of them is not being registered by the MB has some issue on the fan i guess but they are no longer silent as they used to be when i bought them... i can hear the bearings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - hence i replaced them this winter with the Fractals R2/R3 but aparently i was stupid because i thought that they will be doing similar job
> 
> with the NB's (that i put 1 at the back case and 2 on the thermalright (because one wasn't registering and i just strapped the 2-nd one there and plugged the first in an optional jack to not get errors
> Now on Full 100% load the CPU is running at 45C for 15-20min with no change.
> 
> Oh fan orientation will mark with red where the front fan is on the picture and it is sucking while the other 3 are blowing towards the back to get the air out.
> 
> I am tempted to get 3 new NB's i found them for 11 Eu each on a retailer here but those 3 i have have worked for not more than 2-3 years or less about 10h a day and they are atm at 1500 rpm sounding like if they were on 2500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Zalman ZM-F3-FDB i found is even cheaper 9 Eu and that test there shows it at 2.65 static pressure at max rpm that is 1500 and that soinds great compared to the 2.79 of the NB at 2000 Rpm further more the zalman he says at full load is 23 db and that could mean slightly less airflow than the NB's but at sound level of the Fractals (R2 is hydraulic bearing aswell)
> 
> So am hoping for imput if that 2.65 static pressure would be sufficient to replace the noise blocker
> Even thou the NB's specs state they provide slightly more airflow and static pressure than the Zalman i am more inclined to trust the bench results from that test i linked in my previous comment.
> the Zalman that is being tested in the OP post at the start of this thread is not the same
> 
> P.S. on the picture - the power cables are kind a short to reach everywhere as i replaced that PSU a few weeks ago on a rush on a saturday because my old one died
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this new one has short cables
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also the HDD on the bottom is there because it's #8 and the Board's 8-th sata conector is at the back some sort of strange double standard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's an old 200GB drive that i use to download stuff before i move it to other drives. temps on all the HDD on iddle right now with the Fractal being the fan at the front of the chasis are: from 27C to 40C


Thermalright Inferno IFX-14 is basically same cooler as Silver Arrow and Cogage Arrow It was best in it's era and is till very good. The only Fractal fans I have heard are any good are the new Venturi series. All others are quiet, but move very little air. Many of us changed them out of our Fractal cases.

With good fans the Fractal cases are quite good What case do you have?

You can load images by clicking on the image in menu bar. I will not download your image to open it. Reason is downloading unknown contents is know way for hackers to get.









You might find "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig helpful. 1st post is index, click on topics to see them. I suggest starting wit 5th one. .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> The case front slots for CD/DVD are 2/3 free and there is a filter there too so more air can come inside. I know i could get a better case better heatsink better fans better CPU even
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but my current budget is for replacing a GTX 650 and can't rly afford anything else. Buying 3 new fans is a bit tight even since i bought 3 new fans 5-6 months ago
> 
> as i said replacing the fractals with the old NB's got me from going upwards to 60+ to static 45 at full load. That seems fine considering it's mid summer and it's 27C room temperature.
> 
> I just want an advice about replacing the NB's with maybe that Zalman i am thinking of getting 1-2 to place at the front and at the heatsink while leaving an R2 fractal at the back end chasis since it has low static pressure but would hopefully keep up with the airflow
> or should i prioritize the back chasis + the heatsink
> 
> the fractals are quite new they don't even have dust on them albeit being used for 6 months.


If you have a Fractal Design tower case there are many things you can do to improve it's airflow. One of the last posts in "Ways to Better Cooling" is about Define R2 / 3 / 4 / 5 cases.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> he already said it, you're already at the limit of your best result.
> even if you end up using the noiser, stronger fans, your temps wont improve much.


Simply mounting fans in a case does not optimize case airl and give us the best cooling.
Fans are important in that they supply a flow of air.
But how that air actually flows through the case even more important.
If system components use 90cfm of air and case fans supply 100cfm of optimized airflow everything is cool
If system components use 90cfm of air and case fans supply 180cfm of air blowing everywhere the components will most likely not be cool.
The key is flowing air through the case so the cool air going to components is not contaminated and heated up by the component's heated exhaust air. This is more important than how much air case fans supply.

This is the reason I monitor case intake / room air temperature and component cooler intake air temp with a low cost indoor / outdoor digital thermometer. Getting cooler intake air temp to 2-5c above room instead of the15-20c it often is means components will be 10-18c cooler.

This is also the reason for "Ways to Better Cooling" thread and link to it in my sig is so forum members can find and read the tutorials listed in opening post..


----------



## slavovid

I don't want to increase the airflow further the NB's are doing perfect The problem is they are 2-3 years old and i can hear the sound of the bearings so they have incrased their noice by a lot from being new.
That's why i replaced them with those fractal ones i actually wanted 3 R2 with hydraulic bearing but the 2 i got after the first one were R3 and the retailer didn't had so i just took them as i thought they will be better than my noisy ones. Ignorant decision now that i look at it.



http://imgur.com/wX5KtPr

 is my image uploaded for those that fear downloading stuff









In 1 line with the back case fan the 2 fans on the heatsink is 1 SDD drive that is pllaced inside the floppy drive bay - since there is no other place







and the bay front is open and has a filter for air intake so if the Fan that is in front of the HDD bay area is not providing enough air there is a lot of space around the FDD/CD area that can provide more air intake - the only problem is i can't mount a fan there to get even more air inside









So i used to run 1 front 1 back case fans and 1 on the heatsink as adding a 2-nd isn't improving too much (but that was when back in the days i had 3x NB's on those 3 places now because of how much dismantling and stuff i have to do to remove the 1 front one i just left it there and strapped 2 on the heatsink while i decide what new to buy

My question is not how to increase the cooling as currently it seems fine. The question is what to replace the Noise Blockers with. I can purchase new Noise blockers for 11eu each but they are ball-bearing and those 3 have been used between 12-15k hours and already have changed their sound by a lot

So the Swiftech Helix is rated at 55 CFM / 2.29 mmH20 / < 33 db(A) at 1800 rpm and 60k hours life while the Zalman ZM-F3-FDB that i am considering atm are rated to 57.54 CFM / 2.65 mmH20 / 23 db(A) at 1500 rpm and 150k hours life on fluid dynamic bearing
and according to this bencher http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485/5 the numbers are about as accurate as expected.

Cables? i don't rly think those cables reduce airflow rly Sata cables that ar on the bottom side panel and the power cables that are basicly on the wall of the top side panel.
The reduced Air Flow is due to hard drives mostly. but if there is no airflow through them they will heat up









If you are interested in suggesting a new case for a good price i could start collecting for a replacement of this old / spire branded tower
it should be big







with propper room for 6-7 Hard drives and an SSD









If i understand what Doyll is saying is that providing more air intake than the system can exhaust will result in air swirling around and overall bad airflow so i should put the same fan in the front and in the back ? as well as on the heatsink or even have a lower intake on the front to reduce air swirling around so that the ones at the back to take the excess they need from other sources. ?
Or maybe put the same 3 fans as the front one is already limited a lot by the Hard drives and that alone will lower it CFM by enough to reduce those swirls.

I have also been saving to replace my GPU and plan to get a AIB RX 480 (if i have enough money left lol) with say twin big fans instead of the refference blower and that might be messing air flow inside ?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

How big is the hard drives? All those are taking up space and most good cases has fewer drives slots.

Cables inside case will mess up airflow and add restriction.
Adding a new GPU like RX480 in this case is not smart to do. This is will increase internal temps without any or limited airflow.

As for cases a few to pick from for under $100, but might not have exactly what you need. These can offer unrestricted front airflow with 2x140mm.
Fractal Define S
NZXT S340
Phantek Pro M
Phanteks P400


----------



## epic1337

rather than those, why not move the HDDs and then remove the drive cage?

move two HDDs to those 3.5" open bay.
and then buy a 5.25"-to-3.5" converter.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> rather than those, why not move the HDDs and then remove the drive cage?
> 
> move two HDDs to those 3.5" open bay.
> and then buy a 5.25"-to-3.5" converter.


I've tried that but they get too hot that way. There is 1 HDD there atm taking 1 of the three 5.25 bays and it is the one running at 41C compared the 2-nd highest temp among the drives is 36C.

@Sp33d Junki3 the Fractal Design looks cool but they are all small and all run out of place to put my HD's







This looks nice Define R5 Black with enough 3.5 inch slots







tnx for the tip but i will have to save up another 100EU for that or anything else in that caliber .

Still nobody is commenting on the Zalman ZM-F3-FDB pick so far. Should i be buying them or looking for something better they seem quiet and might provide just a little bit less than the Noice Blockers with 1/2 the standard noice that is like 1/4 of what i am having now








Comparing with the
Swiftech Helix -> 55 CFM / 2.29 mmH20 / < 33 db(A) at 1800 rpm and 60k hours life
Zalman ZM-F3-FDB -> 57.54 CFM / 2.65 mmH20 / 23 db(A) at 1500 rpm and 150k hours life on fluid dynamic bearing
or get 3 new Noisblockers
NB-blacksilentfan xlp -> 75CFM / 2.79 mmH20 / 32db(A) at 2000 rpm and 80k hours life

Aparently the NB have been a lucky pick on my side. I am tepmted to get 3 new but i am afirad that after 2 years will have to replace them yet again those 80k hours lif are not exactly true they are working yeah but at around 45+ db(A) at a constant low lvl whistling/squeeking sound granted if i put the headphones i don't hear them but GF is sleeping next to me in the room and that it's not fair.








She says she is ok with the sound but that constant noice in the end will result in headaches and stuff .... So have to replace them (tomorrow is monday time to make an order

Good not the best but Good quiet fans with enough air pressure and airflow ???








From what i am reading i need 2 high static pressure fans to put at the front chasis and on the heatsink as there the airflow is restricted and that is needed and perhaps i can keep the fractal R2 at the back chasis as there the air is not rly restricted so it can just help on ?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> I've tried that but they get too hot that way. There is 1 HDD there atm taking 1 of the three 5.25 bays and it is the one running at 41C compared the 2-nd highest temp among the drives is 36C.
> 
> @Sp33d Junki3 the Fractal Design looks cool but they are all small and all run out of place to put my HD's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This looks nice Define R5 Black with enough 3.5 inch slots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tnx for the tip but i will have to save up another 100EU for that or anything else in that caliber .
> 
> Still nobody is commenting on the Zalman ZM-F3-FDB pick so far. Should i be buying them or looking for something better they seem quiet and might provide just a little bit less than the Noice Blockers with 1/2 the standard noice that is like 1/4 of what i am having now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing with the
> Swiftech Helix -> 55 CFM / 2.29 mmH20 / < 33 db(A) at 1800 rpm and 60k hours life
> Zalman ZM-F3-FDB -> 57.54 CFM / 2.65 mmH20 / 23 db(A) at 1500 rpm and 150k hours life on fluid dynamic bearing
> or get 3 new Noisblockers
> NB-blacksilentfan xlp -> 75CFM / 2.79 mmH20 / 32db(A) at 2000 rpm and 80k hours life
> 
> Aparently the NB have been a lucky pick on my side. I am tepmted to get 3 new but i am afirad that after 2 years will have to replace them yet again those 80k hours lif are not exactly true they are working yeah but at around 45+ db(A) at a constant low lvl whistling/squeeking sound granted if i put the headphones i don't hear them but GF is sleeping next to me in the room and that it's not fair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She says she is ok with the sound but that constant noice in the end will result in headaches and stuff .... So have to replace them (tomorrow is monday time to make an order
> 
> Good not the best but Good quiet fans with enough air pressure and airflow ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what i am reading i need 2 high static pressure fans to put at the front chasis and on the heatsink as there the airflow is restricted and that is needed and perhaps i can keep the fractal R2 at the back chasis as there the air is not rly restricted so it can just help on ?


So we can all see you case easier without clicking on links.


You should not be buying new fans till you can increase your airflow in your current case. Either by getting a new case, removing the HDD cage. Modding the case too allow side intake/bottom intake.
With that many drives what are the size and what do you use them for? Are those drives all full?
If the hard drives are small in size 500GB or less, then you should look at getting larger ones in 2TB+ range. This way you can have same space with less drives, too allow you to get a good case that will increase you cooling potential.

These are the best situation you can do. By changing your fans is only change very little to what you have not. Too see the biggest result in your current case, you need to opt for 3000+rpm fans.


----------



## slavovid

Come on guys can we stop this

I want suggestions for the damn FANS

I know i can get a better Case, better CPU better heatsink, water cool it etc.
That's all not cheap to acomplish i just want to replace the Noise Blockers that are not blocking the damn noise and instead are 2x times as loud as they used to be as new.
That's it

I need something that provides near to the NB performance that will be on their sound level but will hold it for more than 2 years. Thats it.
this
Swiftech Helix -> 55 CFM / 2.29 mmH20 / < 33 db(A) at 1800 rpm and 60k hours life
looks bad compared to the Zalman ...
Zalman ZM-F3-FDB -> 57.54 CFM / 2.65 mmH20 / 23 db(A) at 1500 rpm and 150k hours life on fluid dynamic bearing
and they both look weaker compared to the NB
NB-blacksilentfan xlp -> 75CFM / 2.79 mmH20 / 32db(A) at 2000 rpm and 80k hours life

The only reason i am not getting 3 new NB's is that they did not last more than 2 years ... that's it i'd get 3 new in a heartbeat otherwise.
My CPU FX 8350 is running at 33 C playing overwatch right now so my damn AIRFLOW is just fine tnx.


----------



## Cyclops

Get a pair of NF-P12s. End of story.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Changing your fans wont see dramatic temp difference. Rear fan dont matter what you use as it is close to the heatsink.
Front will only cool the HDD cage, so keep what you have now. If you want more to get through all that, you want much faster fans.
Go with the cheapest you can get or ones you like.
Life span is estimate, 60k life is about 6.5 years running max speed 24/7. I own Swiftech fans, they have be doing great in another build.

You say FX8350 is 33c while playing Overwatch, which is not likely.

When you add the RX480 your temps will change, as this will be the biggest heat source. From your PCI slots to HDD cage, that space seems small, just be sure it is long enough to fit.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Get a pair of NF-P12s. End of story.


according to http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/noctua_nf-p12_static_pressure_performance/1
"the NF-P12 provides no less than 1.68 mm H2O at 1300 rpm"
That's the same as the specs suggest compared to the zalmans 2.65 that are lower than the NB 2.79 ... i rly don't see a reason to get this fan







i might aswell go back to the old fractals R3
and that on double the price of the zalman ... ok i will pass

@ Sp33d Junki3 i said it several times i don't want to increase the airflow and such just to repalce theese NB's with not loud ones as they are loud not because they are loud but because they have degraded.







they are running on something like 50 dbA as oposed to 32 and that bothers the GF's sleep .... that's what is important here
I can pick the same but as i said they didn't last more than 2y and changed their sound
So i'd go with the same but they will most probably rise volume again later on
I stand corrected thou after 1h of playing the CPU is at 34.8 atm
So i just need similar performance to the NB's if you are saying that the back chasis fan is not rly important then i can get only 2 replacements for front and for the heatsink or should i put 2 on the heatsink ?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> according to http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/noctua_nf-p12_static_pressure_performance/1
> "the NF-P12 provides no less than 1.68 mm H2O at 1300 rpm"
> That's the same as the specs suggest compared to the zalmans 2.65 that are lower than the NB 2.79 ... i rly don't see a reason to get this fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i might aswell go back to the old fractals R3
> and that on double the price of the zalman ... ok i will pass


Did you read the first post? I don't deal with garbage meaningless numbers like H2O and CFM. It's all marketing. In my tests P12 is at top of the noise to temperature leaderboard.


----------



## Dair76

Hi folks.

Any thoughts on the Silverstone AP182 fans in terms of noise/performance? Actually, what would ye think of the Silverstone FT02 for air cooling in general? Would be used for a Haswell-E & Pascal air-cooled build.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> I don't want to increase the airflow further the NB's are doing perfect The problem is they are 2-3 years old and i can hear the sound of the bearings so they have incrased their noice by a lot from being new.
> That's why i replaced them with those fractal ones i actually wanted 3 R2 with hydraulic bearing but the 2 i got after the first one were R3 and the retailer didn't had so i just took them as i thought they will be better than my noisy ones. Ignorant decision now that i look at it.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/wX5KtPr
> 
> is my image uploaded for those that fear downloading stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1 line with the back case fan the 2 fans on the heatsink is 1 SDD drive that is pllaced inside the floppy drive bay - since there is no other place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the bay front is open and has a filter for air intake so if the Fan that is in front of the HDD bay area is not providing enough air there is a lot of space around the FDD/CD area that can provide more air intake - the only problem is i can't mount a fan there to get even more air inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So i used to run 1 front 1 back case fans and 1 on the heatsink as adding a 2-nd isn't improving too much (but that was when back in the days i had 3x NB's on those 3 places now because of how much dismantling and stuff i have to do to remove the 1 front one i just left it there and strapped 2 on the heatsink while i decide what new to buy
> 
> My question is not how to increase the cooling as currently it seems fine. The question is what to replace the Noise Blockers with. I can purchase new Noise blockers for 11eu each but they are ball-bearing and those 3 have been used between 12-15k hours and already have changed their sound by a lot
> 
> So the Swiftech Helix is rated at 55 CFM / 2.29 mmH20 / < 33 db(A) at 1800 rpm and 60k hours life while the Zalman ZM-F3-FDB that i am considering atm are rated to 57.54 CFM / 2.65 mmH20 / 23 db(A) at 1500 rpm and 150k hours life on fluid dynamic bearing
> and according to this bencher http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485/5 the numbers are about as accurate as expected.
> 
> Cables? i don't rly think those cables reduce airflow rly Sata cables that ar on the bottom side panel and the power cables that are basicly on the wall of the top side panel.
> The reduced Air Flow is due to hard drives mostly. but if there is no airflow through them they will heat up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are interested in suggesting a new case for a good price i could start collecting for a replacement of this old / spire branded tower
> it should be big
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with propper room for 6-7 Hard drives and an SSD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If i understand what Doyll is saying is that providing more air intake than the system can exhaust will result in air swirling around and overall bad airflow so i should put the same fan in the front and in the back ? as well as on the heatsink or even have a lower intake on the front to reduce air swirling around so that the ones at the back to take the excess they need from other sources. ?
> Or maybe put the same 3 fans as the front one is already limited a lot by the Hard drives and that alone will lower it CFM by enough to reduce those swirls.
> 
> I have also been saving to replace my GPU and plan to get a AIB RX 480 (if i have enough money left lol) with say twin big fans instead of the refference blower and that might be messing air flow inside ?


You know, they don't fall in your budget price range, but if you want quiet fans with cooling on-par or better than the NB's with a very long lifespan time then look at the new Corsair ML120 fans! I just ordered three of them, waiting for them to come. They are GREAT fans on paper; they are PWM with 400rpm to 2400rpm range of speed, has better static pressure and CFM than the SP120's ever did (due to having a square frame instead of the odd circular design that didn't "seal" to a radiator or heatsink properly which lowered the static pressure and airflow) and they use a new "Magnetic Levitation Bearing" that literaly makes the motor assembly FLOAT reducing noise by quite a bit and these magnetic bearings have no friction which allows them to have a MASSIVE mtbf lifespan of 200,000 hours!! So the $20 per fan cost is high yes, but they will last you a frickin lifetime so it's kinda worth it lol. And they're looking to be some of the best fans available if the specs are to be believed. I'll put up some info when i get mine.

They are 18.99 euro on amazon.co.uk currently for the LED pro versions

(white led)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CO-9050041-WW-Pressure-Magnetic-Levitation/dp/B01G5I6MUW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467582990&sr=8-2&keywords=corsair+ml120

(blue led)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CO-9050043-WW-Pressure-Magnetic-Levitation/dp/B01G5I6MYI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1467582990&sr=8-4&keywords=corsair+ml120

(red led)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CO-9050042-WW-Pressure-Magnetic-Levitation/dp/B01G5I6MT8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1467582990&sr=8-3&keywords=corsair+ml120

Or the non-led pro version can be had on amazon.co.uk for 17.99 euro with free shipping

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B01G5I6O4Q/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Did you read the first post? I don't deal with garbage meaningless numbers like H2O and CFM. It's all marketing. In my tests P12 is at top of the noise to temperature leaderboard.


I understand that i read the first post and tried to find a few of the fans that i thought seem nice on the chart but they are all a bit expencive
You haven't tested the one i am interested in and on paper it seems rather fine maybe you want to take a look at this tester.
http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485

@ DarkIdeals thanks for the idea








I think you mean this
SP120 PWM High Performance Edition
62.74 CFM 3.1mm/H2O 35dbA at 2350 RPM
the specs are rather great







i will think about it but will most likely not be able to get 3 of those
as oposed to the zalman ZM-F3-FDB whose specs look like
57.54 CFM / 2.65 mmH20 / 23 db(A) at 1500 rpm
those NightBlockers are doing a great job but the sound







oh my i will add their specs again just so they don't feel left behind
75CFM / 2.79 mmH20 / 32db(A) at 2000 rpm
P.S. I found a retailer that can get me the SP120 PWN with delivery it will cost me exactly as much as 3 of the Zalmans









@Cyclops you did a great job with that list







sadly not everything is available everywhere


----------



## DarkIdeals

Here's some spec info on the ML120's. Even at max 2,400rpm speed they only hit 37db, and
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> I understand that i read the first post and tried to find a few of the fans that i thought seem nice on the chart but they are all a bit expencive
> You haven't tested the one i am interested in and on paper it seems rather fine maybe you want to take a look at this tester.
> http://www.legitreviews.com/zalman-zm-f3-fdb-zm-sf3-120mm-cooling-fan-review_1485
> 
> @ DarkIdeals thanks for the idea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you mean this


Yup, no problem. Just trying to help. Unfortunately i don't see any specs for the ML120's at ~1500rpm, only at their max over 2000rpm speed. But they do have a fairly nice 4.2mmH20 static pressure and 75CFM rating at that speed with only 37db max at max speed as well. So at 1500 range it should still provide very nice static pressure with good CFM at a real low decibal level for noise.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Here's some spec info on the ML120's. Even at max 2,400rpm speed they only hit 37db, and
> Yup, no problem. Just trying to help. Unfortunately i don't see any specs for the ML120's at ~1500rpm, only at their max over 2000rpm speed. But they do have a fairly nice 4.2mmH20 static pressure and 75CFM rating at that speed with only 37db max at max speed as well. So at 1400 it should provide very nice static pressure with good CFM at a real low decibal level for noise.


Oh so those you are talking about are different ML120 not SP120 can't find them on corsair site







4.2 mm-H2O on 37 dbA sounds awasome







i found a retailer that could get them to me 25 eu each. + delivery That is a bit out of my budget









What is your opinion on the Zal*







u've been loading my CPU to 100% for half an hour now and the NB's considering the "poor" air flow in the box are keeping it at below 44C considering the silent Fractal R2/3 models were letting it pass the 60C in just under 5 min of running at full load it means the NB's are doing an OK job
I will probably end up getting 3 Z`s on tuesday if my local retailer has them and will test the system to check the difference. If it's too big i will wait a little and maybe get 1 of those ML120's for the Heatsink
That should be best case scenario and i will move the Z from the heatsink possible afix it around the 5.25`` bay so it can get more air from there and move 1or2 HDD's there so i can lower the count on the lower HDD bay.

Those are my ideas so far and tnx for the input that ML120 seems like rly good value.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Oh so those you are talking about are different ML120 not SP120 can't find them on corsair site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.2 mm-H2O on 37 dbA sounds awasome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i found a retailer that could get them to me 25 eu each. + delivery That is a bit out of my budget
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your opinion on the Zal*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> u've been loading my CPU to 100% for half an hour now and the NB's considering the "poor" air flow in the box are keeping it at below 44C considering the silent Fractal R2/3 models were letting it pass the 60C in just under 5 min of running at full load it means the NB's are doing an OK job
> I will probably end up getting 3 Z`s on tuesday if my local retailer has them and will test the system to check the difference. If it's too big i will wait a little and maybe get 1 of those ML120's for the Heatsink
> That should be best case scenario and i will move the Z from the heatsink possible afix it around the 5.25`` bay so it can get more air from there and move 1or2 HDD's there so i can lower the count on the lower HDD bay.
> 
> Those are my ideas so far and tnx for the input that ML120 seems like rly good value.


Oh, did my post not show up right or something? I put some amazon links for the Corsair ML120's in my old post for £18.99 for the LED lighting versions and £17.99 for the non LED lit versions (with the typical free amazon shipping options if you have prime and whatnot)

Here they are for the £17.99 price
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B01G5I6O4Q/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Not sure how expensive their shipping to UK would be, but check out performance-pcs.com, they have a pack of two of the ML120 fans for $35

http://www.performance-pcs.com/corsair-ml120-120mm-premium-magnetic-levitation-fan.html

They are brand new so not a lot of people have them yet; but are looking to be some of the best fans you can get.

The Zalmans are actually quite interesting. If the on paper specs are true they are certainly good for the price, i might get some of them to go on the giant MORA3 1080mm radiator i'm thinking of getting since it'd cost a fortune to put nine fans on it if you didn't go with cheap ones. Not sure if i'd be able to get them as cheap as you though, they have an MSRP of ~$15-19 or so so might be more expensive in the US.


----------



## slavovid

Yep .... the Zalmans look interesting. I did find the ML120 after your 2-nd post because yeah there were no links on the first. The retailer here in Bulgaria (they are hard to find good ones) ships them from somewhere so i will have to wait a week or more to get one but it will cost me about 25EU to get one shipping incl. So price is fine for the quality.

I will get 3 Zalmans and do 1 front chasis 1 heatsink 1 back chasis will also try to afix the Fractal Silent Series R2 at the front upper chasis on the 5.25 inch bays for additional positive pressure and will come here to give the results.
With the noisy NB's my CPU under full load for half an hour was running at 44C (FX 8350) so i will see what changes and how








Maybe they even work better than the NB's that can't reach their maximum rotation one is at 1900 2-nd is at 1850 and third is not providing information to the Motherboard so might be at 1000 RPM.
The non detected one is 2-nd on the heatsink so i am not sure if that is even helping at all for airflow or is just leaching some power. So generaly with the change to the front bay i might even get reduced temperatures. That fan there would move air through the Heatsinks Back radiator.
I am not sure if you have read all my big posts







so my heatsink is old - Thermalright Inferno IFX-14 CPU that should be ok it also has piece that is at the socket's bottom and moves some heat on the side of the board so that if i affix a fan on the 5.25` inc bay it will start moving some air directly through that radiator and towards the big one









If the end result is not sattisfying or when i add (hopefully) the RX 480 ... and if that increases temperature i will get that ML120 ... looks rly promising for a fan in the middle of the big radiator


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Come on guys can we stop this
> 
> I want suggestions for the damn FANS
> .


You want the impossible. There is no way to be cool and quiet with grill, filter, HDD cage with HDDs, poor cable management and inadequate exhause
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> I've tried that but they get too hot that way. There is 1 HDD there atm taking 1 of the three 5.25 bays and it is the one running at 41C compared the 2-nd highest temp among the drives is 36C.


41c is not too hot for a HDD. 50c is as hot as I would run, but some HDD specs say 60c is top of operating range.

Sorry@DarkIdeals, but suggesting a fan that has not yet been used by consumers ..heck, not even used, tested and reviewed .. is not a responsible or smart thing to be doing. Until they have been used and tested by several independent and trusted entities, they are a complete unknown. Looks don't make a fan good.

For a quid more slavovid could get Gentle Typhoon fans, the quietest best performing fan with a long history of satisfied owners. But like many of us keep saying, with present case setup with lousy airflow and cable management there is no way to make it really quiet.

@slavovid, you say cables are not effecting airflow. You are wrong. Look at how snow drifts build up after going through a fence or around grass stems or a bare clump of brush. That snow buildup is the result of airflow disruption .. the slowing of wind causes the snow to settle out and create drifts.

@slavovid, you want the impossible and are refusing to see reality. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dair76*
> 
> Hi folks.
> 
> Any thoughts on the Silverstone AP182 fans in terms of noise/performance? Actually, what would ye think of the Silverstone FT02 for air cooling in general? Would be used for a Haswell-E & Pascal air-cooled build.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts!


It would be best for you to start a thread of your own.
AP182 are good. FT02 is good. But a more detailed description of components would allow us to give more educated answers.

What @Sp33d Junki3 said.


----------



## epic1337

its already said, you already have the best thing that you could attempt, you won't be getting any better results.
all that you'd end up doing is waste more money on pointless fans, it'll be better to just either ditch the HDDs or buy a better case.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> [...]
> 
> You want the impossible. There is no way to be cool and quiet with grill, filter, HDD cage with HDDs poor cable management and inadequate exhause
> 
> [...]


I understood the question like this:

His current fans have developed an annoying noise as they got older. He wants to replace them and wants something that's not weaker than his current fans.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> [...]
> 
> You want the impossible. There is no way to be cool and quiet with grill, filter, HDD cage with HDDs poor cable management and inadequate exhause
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> I understood the question like this:
> 
> His current fans have developed an annoying noise as they got older. He wants to replace them and wants something that's not weaker than his current fans.
Click to expand...

That's how I was interpreting it.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I understood the question like this:
> 
> His current fans have developed an annoying noise as they got older. He wants to replace them and wants something that's not weaker than his current fans.


not quite, you missed the first part of his post.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> *Greetings guys. Recently i stumbled upon a problem with my fans. I had replaced them with 3 silent ones and everything was running cool and quiet untill i decided i want to OC my CPU a little.
> Long storry short turns out when i put heavy load on stock i run above the normal temperatures.*
> Eventually i replaced the new ones - Fractal design silent series R2/3 with my old fans that run on max 2k rpm NB-BlackSilentFan
> 120mm but they are atm running a bit loud because they are old thus i am looking for new fans.


he already has a decent set of fans, but he was running "HOT" when he OCed his CPU.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I understood the question like this:
> 
> His current fans have developed an annoying noise as they got older. He wants to replace them and wants something that's not weaker than his current fans.
> 
> 
> 
> not quite, you missed the first part of his post.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> *Greetings guys. Recently i stumbled upon a problem with my fans. I had replaced them with 3 silent ones and everything was running cool and quiet untill i decided i want to OC my CPU a little.
> Long storry short turns out when i put heavy load on stock i run above the normal temperatures.*
> Eventually i replaced the new ones - Fractal design silent series R2/3 with my old fans that run on max 2k rpm NB-BlackSilentFan
> 120mm but they are atm running a bit loud because they are old thus i am looking for new fans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he already has a decent set of fans, but he was running "HOT" when he OCed his CPU.
Click to expand...

He's changed his tune by post #2031"

"...I know i can get a better Case, better CPU better heatsink, water cool it etc.
That's all not cheap to acomplish i just want to replace the Noise Blockers that are not blocking the damn noise and instead are 2x times as loud as they used to be as new.
That's it

I need something that provides near to the NB performance that will be on their sound level but will hold it for more than 2 years. Thats it..."

I'm reading that as he now wants to replace the NBs that have gotten unacceptably noisier after two years with equivalent fans that will have the same performance and noise levels as his NBs were when new but will last longer without increasing in noise levels like the NBs did.


----------



## slavovid

I was running HOT with the Silent Fractals R2/3 i changed back to the NB's and everything is fine but the noise. (The noise is not their standard noise)

As deepor and Lady Fitzgerald have noticed in short .... that i have been saying over and over.
I just need to replace the NB's with something that is not as noisy.

Option one is new NB's as their sound was great when new but has degraded by a lot as of recently
Option two something with similar performance that will not degrade as fast .

Money is an issue too i am taking from the budget for a new GPU that was short to begin with and taking too much is hard to replenish








So i have already asked for 3 of those Zalmans whose stats look nice. They should arrive tomorrow and i will let you guys know if they are performing near the NB's level better or worse.
If they are bad i will try to get 1 more expensive fan for the heatsink Grill as that's where it's most important to have a strong high pressure fan as far as i have learned lately.
Maybe that ML120 that got suggested. Even if it is new and not rly tested specs look rly promising but that will have to wait.

If the Zalmans are not providing enough airflow i am thinking to use 2 of them on the grill and instead use one of the fractal silent series R2 on the back chassis as there high pressure is not needed on taking the air out hoping that the PSU's fan and the R2 will probably get enough air out anyway correct?

P.S. the retailer that had the zalman's in stock turns out has 0 ... managed to order me 1







lol I am placing an order for dual-pack ML120's Pro apparently a dualpack makes them a bit cheapr







2 of them this way would cost as much as 3 zalmans ... so if they are close to the specs they should be great ... hopefully we will see ... hoping that this retailer actually gets them unlike my local one


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> I was running HOT with the Silent Fractals R2/3 i changed back to the NB's and everything is fine but the noise. (The noise is not their standard noise)
> 
> As deepor and Lady Fitzgerald have noticed in short .... that i have been saying over and over.
> I just need to replace the NB's with something that is not as noisy.
> 
> Option one is new NB's as their sound was great when new but has degraded by a lot as of recently
> Option two something with similar performance that will not degrade as fast .
> 
> Money is an issue too i am taking from the budget for a new GPU that was short to begin with and taking too much is hard to replenish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So i have already asked for 3 of those Zalmans whose stats look nice. They should arrive tomorrow and i will let you guys know if they are performing near the NB's level better or worse.
> If they are bad i will try to get 1 more expensive fan for the heatsink Grill as that's where it's most important to have a strong high pressure fan as far as i have learned lately.
> Maybe that ML120 that got suggested. Even if it is new and not rly tested specs look rly promising but that will have to wait.
> 
> If the Zalmans are not providing enough airflow i am thinking to use 2 of them on the grill and instead use one of the fractal silent series R2 on the back chassis as there high pressure is not needed on taking the air out hoping that the PSU's fan and the R2 will probably get enough air out anyway correct?


Lady Fitzgerald and deepor are more layed back than some of us .. Some would say they are more diplomatic.








I just say it like I see it.









Maybe you don't understand what I am trying to tell you. I really don't think new fans is going to solve your noise problems. I really do think working on your case venting and airflow will lower your noise levels. If we improve case airflow we lower the resistance to airflow, and this means the air not only flows quieter but the fans can run slower and quieter.

While it is very possible in two years our NB fans have increased in noise level, I think it is also just as possible it could be they are not any louder , but because you have become accustom to a lower level of noise youn are noticing / hearing the same noise they made a year or two ago differently .. that the same noise that 2 years ago was 'nice and quiet' is now 'distracting and intrusive'. This is quite common, people think a new fan sounds very good when compared to what they had before, but as time passes think fans are getting progressively louder when really they are not.

Looking at the image of your system shows me and others that it is very poorly setup for airflow. This is why I suggested reading 5th post in "Ways to Better Cooling' linked in my sig. I have over 40 years of research and first hand experience in airflow and cooling .. from car and motorcycle street and racing R&D to computer and laboratory systems. I know a lot more than the average about how airflow and air cooling works. Your case is a mess that might flow 30% of what it could. Getting the HDD cage out and cable management would be a good start, but that's not all there is to it either. For example back vent grills reduce airflow by 23-65%. Grill patterns increase noise by up to 70% depending on grill and air speed. This is all documented in 15th post of "Ways to Better Cooling".


----------



## slavovid

I was thinking to cut out the grill of the back vent to help the fan







...
Removing the HDD's is a no go
The sound has changed by a lot for the 2 years of use and i know how a normal fan sounds that's not normal









Will read up on your guide seems interesting and will try to change something. But as i said the NB's are getting job done just not at the sound level i want them to. Even at 1300/1200 rpm they sound the same as at 1900/1800 aka LOUD







There is something wrong with them that's it.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> He's changed his tune by post #2031"
> 
> "...I know i can get a better Case, better CPU better heatsink, water cool it etc.
> That's all not cheap to acomplish i just want to replace the Noise Blockers that are not blocking the damn noise and instead are 2x times as loud as they used to be as new.
> That's it
> 
> I need something that provides near to the NB performance that will be on their sound level but will hold it for more than 2 years. Thats it..."
> 
> I'm reading that as he now wants to replace the NBs that have gotten unacceptably noisier after two years with equivalent fans that will have the same performance and noise levels as his NBs were when new but will last longer without increasing in noise levels like the NBs did.


i wasn't talking about the NBs, i was talking about the fractal fans, he already has a set.


----------



## slavovid

I ordered 2x ML120 Pro's just now since my retailer only got me 1 of those Zalmans







so i guess we shall see what happens in a week.

After a while maybe a Fractal Design Define XL R2 case .... or Define R5 Black looks even better even thou it's smaller.


----------



## VSG

Look up Magnetic Levitation bearing and you will quickly figure out who is working with Corsair on these fans. I actually have P-Q data from retail samples as well, along with the same for the Noctua NF-F12, the GT and EK Vardar so it's going to be a pretty good fan. More details in a week's time.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Look up Magnetic Levitation bearing and you will quickly figure out who is working with Corsair on these fans. I actually have P-Q data from retail samples as well, along with the same for the Noctua NF-F12, the GT and EK Vardar so it's going to be a pretty good fan. More details in a week's time.


I'm looking forward to your report! I'm curious how durable and quiet they will be, especially when running horizontally (laying down flat), and how they will compare to other fans when it comes to static pressure.


----------



## VSG

Funny thing is, I don't have the fans in my hands yet. I had them go directly for a test on a Longwin for the P-Q, and more, and so I am waiting on them to arrive here as well. You will see a lot of reviews/videos etc from mainstream media next week though.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Look up Magnetic Levitation bearing and you will quickly figure out who is working with Corsair on these fans. I actually have P-Q data from retail samples as well, along with the same for the Noctua NF-F12, the GT and EK Vardar so it's going to be a pretty good fan. More details in a week's time.


Sunon? The only fans with "maglev" bearing I've had were retailed by Enermax. While they pushed a lot of air they did so rather loudly. Decent fans, not too expensive, but nothing to write home about.


----------



## VSG

Ding Ding Ding









Enermax went with lower end models to re-work their SKUs, possibly to hit lower price points. I had tried those out also, and were ok but nothing special like you said. Lots of air = air flow noise though, it comes with the territory. I just don't think the ML fans are best for low restriction applications including CPU coolers, they will really shine on radiators. Makes sense given the high restriction CLC rads Corsair sells.


----------



## Damasterjj

best 140 fan?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> best 140 fan?


The definitive answer, as ever is: YES!










The less definitive answer is...best 140mm for what use? On a cooler? Rad? Case fan? Best max airflow regardless of noise? Lowest noise to airflow ratio? Sadly, there is no single best 140mm fan. (Not even the TY-147a is the best in all scenarios - just the important ones.







)


----------



## Damasterjj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> The definitive answer, as ever is: YES!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The less definitive answer is...best 140mm for what use? On a cooler? Rad? Case fan? Best max airflow regardless of noise? Lowest noise to airflow ratio? Sadly, there is no single best 140mm fan. (Not even the TY-147a is the best in all scenarios - just the important ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I'm looking for case fan what do you think about noctua 1500 & fractal gp 14 1000rpm?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> I'm looking for case fan what do you think about noctua 1500 & fractal gp 14 1000rpm?


What case and what sort of system is in the case? What cpu cooler?

I like the GP-14 for a very quiet case fan - it's one of the few case fans that moves more air when used with a filter than in free air. See ehume's review of it here. At a max rpm of 1000, it doesn't move as much air as faster 140mm fans. But, even at max rpm, it's very quiet. Near inaudible a foot away from the case.

The Noctua will move more air, with more noise, but assuming the PWM model (either the A14 or Redux), you can dial it down to be as quiet as the GP-14. I like to run most of my case fans split from the CPU header and/or GPU header so that when the system works harder, the case breathes harder too.


----------



## epic1337

i kinda hate my local stores, they pulled out all of the low RPM GTs and left only 4250 RPM and 5400 RPM versions, annoying.

though theres an interesting lineup in their inventory at the moment, the ID Cooling fans.
paper spec seems good, but i've yet to see a proper review done, and their designs are mostly a bunch of copies it seems.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> best 140 fan?


Tell me what the 'best 15 tire' is and I'll tell you what the 'best 140 fan' is.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> I'm looking for case fan what do you think about noctua 1500 & fractal gp 14 1000rpm?


Like MicroCat said, which 1500?
This older fan review is also good.

Thermalbench does good fan testing. Enter the fan you wnat to see in forum search.

Cooling Technique do good fan testing. Enter the fan you want to see in their search. Often the fan testing is done with fan in a case or cooler review.

To me the key to a cool quiet case is case fans that change speed based on heat and airflow demand .. same as CPU and GPU fans do. This way we can use 1300-1500rpm fans that operate at 300-600rpm 850% of the time, 800-1000rpm 12% and above 1000rpm 3% of the time .. like when it's 30c ambient and we hare worikng our systems at 100% CPU and GPU load.

More info available on request.


----------



## epic1337

wait, we're talking about fans for case right? not fans for heatsinks?

i was wondering about one thing, if an exhaust fan were to be placed on a slot without the grills, which fans would be good?
in theory, since theres no obstructive grill then a fan with the highest CFM within a certain noise threshold would be best.

but cyclops doesn't test for CFM sadly, so we can only rely on other reviews for a rough estimate.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> wait, we're talking about fans for case right? not fans for heatsinks?
> 
> i was wondering about one thing, if an exhaust fan were to be placed on a slot without the grills, which fans would be good?
> in theory, since theres no obstructive grill then a fan with the highest CFM within a certain noise threshold would be best.
> 
> but cyclops doesn't test for CFM sadly, so we can only rely on other reviews for a rough estimate.


Honerstly the difference between a 'case' fan, a 'cooler' fan and a 'radiator' fan is what they are mounted on.







Sure each has different resistance to airflow but which has the most depends on what case, cooler or radiator they are on. Some cases with fancy grills and good filters are more restrictive than a good radiator is.

CFM is a name that is more often then not miss-used and really means nothing without knowing the resistance pressure differential and rpm .. something rarely shown.

What it all boils down to is having a fan that is able to overcome more resistance (build more pressure) than we need is not a problem, but having a fan that cannot means we have little or no airflow, and that is a big problem.

It's like having a sports car that will go 120mpy in 8 seconds and can do 120mph for hours at at time on a race course compared to an old clunker car that goes 30mph in town, can barely reach 60mph on flat ground on the highway and can't make it over a mountain pass without overheating. We can drive the sports car at 60mph all day long, over high moutntain passes or drive it 30mph in town. The old clunker will get us around town, but just barely .. but is no good on the highway and definitely not going to make it on a race course. The sports car can still drive around town, but can do so much more.


----------



## Damasterjj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> What case and what sort of system is in the case? What cpu cooler?
> 
> I like the GP-14 for a very quiet case fan - it's one of the few case fans that moves more air when used with a filter than in free air. See ehume's review of it here. At a max rpm of 1000, it doesn't move as much air as faster 140mm fans. But, even at max rpm, it's very quiet. Near inaudible a foot away from the case.
> 
> The Noctua will move more air, with more noise, but assuming the PWM model (either the A14 or Redux), you can dial it down to be as quiet as the GP-14. I like to run most of my case fans split from the CPU header and/or GPU header so that when the system works harder, the case breathes harder too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Tell me what the 'best 15 tire' is and I'll tell you what the 'best 140 fan' is.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Like MicroCat said, which 1500?
> This older fan review is also good.
> 
> Thermalbench does good fan testing. Enter the fan you wnat to see in forum search.
> 
> Cooling Technique do good fan testing. Enter the fan you want to see in their search. Often the fan testing is done with fan in a case or cooler review.
> 
> To me the key to a cool quiet case is case fans that change speed based on heat and airflow demand .. same as CPU and GPU fans do. This way we can use 1300-1500rpm fans that operate at 300-600rpm 850% of the time, 800-1000rpm 12% and above 1000rpm 3% of the time .. like when it's 30c ambient and we hare worikng our systems at 100% CPU and GPU load.
> 
> More info available on request.


thanks for the link anyway

I currently have D15 wtih stock 140 plus 120mm fan. As far as case fan I have 120 intake and exhaust. Temperature is excellent but I feel my case is too small.

I was thinking of buying fractal define S with three GP14 intake & two GP14 exhaust or three GP14 intake & one slightly faster 140. overkill?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Damasterjj*
> 
> thanks for the link anyway
> 
> I currently have D15 wtih stock 140 plus 120mm fan. As far as case fan I have 120 intake and exhaust. Temperature is excellent but I feel my case is too small.
> 
> I was thinking of buying fractal define S with three GP14 intake & two GP14 exhaust or three GP14 intake & one slightly faster 140. overkill?


D15 stock fans are very good, no reason to change.
With good temps there is no reason to change cases.
Why do you 'feel' case is too small? Obviously it is big enough for for a big cooler like D15 to fit. And as long as GPU fits it's big enough.


----------



## Damasterjj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> D15 stock fans are very good, no reason to change.
> With good temps there is no reason to change cases.
> Why do you 'feel' case is too small? Obviously it is big enough for for a big cooler like D15 to fit. And as long as GPU fits it's big enough.


yeah I plan on keeping d15 stock fans. the only thing i want to change is case. In to to additional airflow I want a case that a little more roomy I really don't how I manage to fit the D15


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ...D15 stock fans are very good, no reason to change...


I can't speak for the OP but, in my case (no pun intended...ok, maybe a little), I will be replacing the stock fan with a couple of 120mm fans (and maybe even a third one just to get a symmetrical appearance even thought the third fan won't improve cooling enough to write home about) to get a better color combo (face it, the original fan is seriously UUUUUGLY!), to gain a little more clearance for RAM, and reduce the overall height a wee bit.


----------



## Damasterjj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> I can't speak for the OP but, in my case (no pun intended...ok, maybe a little), I will be replacing the stock fan with a couple of 120mm fans (and maybe even a third one just to get a symmetrical appearance even thought the third fan won't improve cooling enough to write home about) to get a better color combo (face it, the original fan is seriously UUUUUGLY!), to gain a little more clearance for RAM, and reduce the overall height a wee bit.


dude don't, I think one of the stock 140 might beat two 120 depending on rpm


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Not according to someone here that has done just that on the same board I'm going to use which he has overclocked and still is able to keep plenty cool.


----------



## doyll

The D15 is designed for 140mm fans .. although butchering out the fins to be able to claim better RAM clearance greatly lowered my respect for Noctua. I have not been able to do comparison testing between D15 and D14, but those who have say with same fans they perform the same .. and it makes sense. Sadly we now see Noctua 'cultist' fanatical followers just like the Corsail cultist. At least Noctua product quality is better.

I do agree, the Noc fans are ugly. Thermalright TY series have changed to black and white with the TY-147 and newer TY-147A (300-1300rpm) and they are about to release as square TY-147Asq. I'm using some now in my Enthoo Evolv and really like them.


----------



## epic1337

i kinda like the peach color, though its not like i stare at the fans everyday so it doesn't matter.

on the other hand i kinda miss the round frame, is there a reason why they'd abandon the design?


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Ding Ding Ding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enermax went with lower end models to re-work their SKUs, possibly to hit lower price points. I had tried those out also, and were ok but nothing special like you said. Lots of air = air flow noise though, it comes with the territory. I just don't think the ML fans are best for low restriction applications including CPU coolers, they will really shine on radiators. Makes sense given the high restriction CLC rads Corsair sells.


Yup, which is precisely why i got three of the white LED ML120 pro's for my radiator setup







Just gotta decide whether they'd be better on my 30mm thick XSPC EX-480mm rad or my ~55mm thick Black Ice GTX 360mm rad. I currently have four of the regular SP120 quiet editions, thinking of either putting the four SP120 on the 480 rad and these three ML120 on the 360 rad, or buying a 4th ML120 and putting them all on the 480 rad, sticking three SP120 on the 360 and using the remaining one as a rear case fan. I also still need three 140 fans for my ~60mm thick EK XTC 420mm rad. Trying to decide between NB E-loop 140's, Vardar 140's, or maybe the ML140 pro's if the 120's are any good. Still undecided.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Look up Magnetic Levitation bearing and you will quickly figure out who is working with Corsair on these fans. I actually have P-Q data from retail samples as well, along with the same for the Noctua NF-F12, the GT and EK Vardar so it's going to be a pretty good fan. More details in a week's time.


Nice! Can't wait to see your results!! I get my 3 ML120 Pro LEDs on Monday cuz of Antonline's lazy slow shipping practices. I'll post some generic amateur test results on here as well to compare to what you get. Should be interesting to see if we come to a similar conclusion









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> I ordered 2x ML120 Pro's just now since my retailer only got me 1 of those Zalmans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so i guess we shall see what happens in a week.
> 
> After a while maybe a Fractal Design Define XL R2 case .... or Define R5 Black looks even better even thou it's smaller.


Very Nice! I think you'll like them!







Mine arrive soon...can't wait to try them out. How much did you pay for them?

They appear to be quite good radiator and heatsink fans. Better seal against thick fin arrays on heastink/rads, better blade design etc..etc.. which should give significantly better Airflow and Static Pressure than either SP120 version, and the MagLev bearings from what i've seen talking to people who have them and listening to demo videos etc.. appear to reduce the noise by quite a bit (unlike the old crappy Sunon maglev fans that aren't in the same league as these and thus shouldn't even be mentioned as a valid comparison between maglev technology and fluid/double ball etc.. design.) and also should give a DRASTICALLY longer lifespan as well. Overall i have good feelings about these fans, i think Corsair is moving into the top end finally.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i kinda like the peach color, though its not like i stare at the fans everyday so it doesn't matter.
> 
> on the other hand i kinda miss the round frame, is there a reason why they'd abandon the design?


Round fans typically have a worse "seal" when put on top of mid-high fpi rads and even some heatsinks etc.. which is part of why mid-tier round 120's like the Corsair SP120 etc.. or like the NF-A15 weren't as popular and performance-worthy as some of their square brethren so to speak. (although i must admit the ty 147's do a bang up job for a round fan lol)

That's why i was so interested in these new ML120 Corsairs, the ONLY real reason the SP120 was an inferior fan to the top tier favorites was the lacking static pressure and airflow on the quiet editions (due to the round design mostly, corsair has admitted this actually) or slightly excessive noise and a bit of motor tick and whir on the Performance Editions due to higher RPM and said motor issues etc.. These ML120 appear to strike a good balance, the quality maglev bearings should provide lower noise at higher RPM thus "fixing" the performance SP120 issues, and also have square design and updated blades which (at least on paper) provides better airflow and static pressure at low rpm.

I'm kinda tempted to check out some of the Noctua IPPC or Redux 140's for my 420 rad in the bottom of my system that has no fans currently; still real stuck on 140s though. NB e-loops look nice but i've heard some "meh" things about them, vardar F4 140's appear interesting though....


----------



## epic1337

maybe not on rads, but tower heatsinks can benefit from the round-frame design, as airflow can bypass through outside the frame and cooling the outside fins.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> maybe not on rads, but tower heatsinks can benefit from the round-frame design, as airflow can bypass through outside the frame and cooling the outside fins.


That's true i suppose. Never thought about that. Perhaps they just wanted to make them more "all purpose" by increasing their radiator viability at a slight cost to heatsink viability? I dunno for sure, nobody does obviously; we can only speculate till official info is stated.

I wonder how these would do on tower heatsinks...

https://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Cooling-NF-P14r-redux-1500-PWM/dp/B00KF7QO2G/ref=pd_sim_147_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=51O2HHNLlXL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=B56KDJF2889QY6XWE8FA

Thinking of getting the square version (3 of them) for my 420 rad since they're not too pricy but seem fairly decent overall without being super high RPM like the IPPC's that i have a few of that are 3 pin and won't voltage control at all.

(square ones)
https://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Cooling-NF-P14s-redux-1200-PWM/dp/B00KF7Q4WG/ref=pd_sim_147_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=51nTnaDXC%2BL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR124%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=HV7PBFK9MZZ1C8SZE19S


----------



## Loladinas

A local shop has CM Silencio FP in stock. Somewhat tempted to pick up a pair for... well for no reason at all,I just think they look pretty. Might stick them in my nephews case, as he's visiting now and his case still has the terribad stock Corsair fans it came with. They had purrdy lights on them, but even the kid who's 11 said it looks tacky. Decided to look up a review first and 



. Well at least this time they didn't lie about fan specs, much. Static pressure is off, but it looks like the rest of it are spot on.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> A local shop has CM Silencio FP in stock. Somewhat tempted to pick up a pair for... well for no reason at all,I just think they look pretty. Might stick them in my nephews case, as he's visiting now and his case still has the terribad stock Corsair fans it came with. They had purrdy lights on them, but even the kid who's 11 said it looks tacky. Decided to look up a review first and
> 
> 
> 
> . Well at least this time they didn't lie about fan specs, much. Static pressure is off, but it looks like the rest of it are spot on.


Did you look at the P/Q curve?


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Did you look at the P/Q curve?


Bummer. I had looked at the wrong entry - the PWM one, which has higher RPM.


----------



## slavovid

@ DarkIdeals i haven't payed them yet. But i asked for a double pack non led it shows at around 30 eu with delivery so will have to see when they arrive.
My town retailers are rly bad thou. They brought me 1 Zalamn and instead of Zalman ZM-F3-FDB they brought me Zalman ZM-F3-FDB(sf) - shark fin

and the shark fin is +2 fins +sharklike pins on the fins - 300 rpm







overall from 2.65 static pressure from the standard one this "enhanced" one is probably below 2








I removed 2 of the 3 NB's and used the 3-rd that was with the least anoying sound on the rad/heatsink and put this new Zalman on the chasis exhaust. All this increased my temperatures from solid 44 to 52







just can't stand the old fans anymore and will have to wait for the new ML120's

However being pissed at the lack of zalmans i decided to order 2 more Coolermaster SickleFlow 120mm with red leds so i can use those on the back and front chasis + to give a little color fun to the entire thing. They are cheap and i plan to dismantle the entire case once those 4 fans arrive to cut out the grids on the 2 chassis fan positions in order to let the fans work better.

@ Doyll
Also i plan to either drill a few holes - just above the PSU there is about 1.5-2 inch space between the PSU and the roof of the case. Alternatively i am thinking if maybe rotating the PSU so the big fan the PSU has can suck air from that space.
Both ideas are meant to move out the hot air that is on top of the case and gets trapped there.
Another thing i am thinking is making a rubber cover for the heatsink rad in order for the air to get forced by 1 fan to move through the entire thing rather than be sucked from the sides.

All the extra stuff i do to enhance this case is not going to be wasted as if/when i get a new one this will still be used for an older machine so it's worth doing them i guess.
I am only worried that getting 4 new 120mm fans won't fit in a new case and will have to buy even more fans after.


----------



## doyll

Neither one is any good in my book


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Neither one is any good in my book


as in
1. Drill air exhaust holes on the top of the PC in order to get hot air trapped in the 1/4 of the entire case with no air vents to get out + introducing more positive pressure to the case to get that air out
2. Reverse the PSU in order for the fan to take air from the upper lair of air in order to reduce hot air getting trapped up there.
3. Removing the grills of front and back case walls in order to let the fans move more air with less effort
4. Making Covering the radiator of the heatsink in order to force the fan to move the air through the entire thing.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Neither one is any good in my book


Eh, they were there and it would've been better than what I have on hand. Those stock fans need to be replaced and all I have left at the moment are Scythe Glide Stream 800 RPM. They're quieter than Silencio FP, and they move the same amount of air but they have no pressure whatsoever, and that case front of his is awful restrictive (thick plastic honeycomb, a fine plastic filter, one of the fans covered by a non-removable drive cage).

Of course I have some 38mm thick 3000 RPM Deltas, but I'd rather my nephew keeps all of his fingers attached


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> as in
> 1. Drill air exhaust holes on the top of the PC in order to get hot air trapped in the 1/4 of the entire case with no air vents to get out + introducing more positive pressure to the case to get that air out
> 2. Reverse the PSU in order for the fan to take air from the upper lair of air in order to reduce hot air getting trapped up there.
> 3. Removing the grills of front and back case walls in order to let the fans move more air with less effort
> 4. Making Covering the radiator of the heatsink in order to force the fan to move the air through the entire thing.


Sorry, was replying to Loladinas. Should have quoted him.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> as in
> 1. Drill air exhaust holes on the top of the PC in order to get hot air trapped in the 1/4 of the entire case with no air vents to get out + introducing more positive pressure to the case to get that air out
> 2. Reverse the PSU in order for the fan to take air from the upper lair of air in order to reduce hot air getting trapped up there.
> 3. Removing the grills of front and back case walls in order to let the fans move more air with less effort
> 4. Making Covering the radiator of the heatsink in order to force the fan to move the air through the entire thing.


wouldn't work much, may even worsen temps as you'd end up bypassing airflow for the CPU.

what you lack is fresh intake, not additional exhaust.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> @ Doyll
> Also i plan to either drill a few holes - just above the PSU there is about 1.5-2 inch space between the PSU and the roof of the case. Alternatively i am thinking if maybe rotating the PSU so the big fan the PSU has can suck air from that space.
> Both ideas are meant to move out the hot air that is on top of the case and gets trapped there.
> Another thing i am thinking is making a rubber cover for the heatsink rad in order for the air to get forced by 1 fan to move through the entire thing rather than be sucked from the sides.
> 
> All the extra stuff i do to enhance this case is not going to be wasted as if/when i get a new one this will still be used for an older machine so it's worth doing them i guess.
> I am only worried that getting 4 new 120mm fans won't fit in a new case and will have to buy even more fans after.


How to get your case to flow air is not realy the topic of this thread. Would be better if you started a thread to talk about it in.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> How to get your case to flow air is not realy the topic of this thread. Would be better if you started a thread to talk about it in.


True but you could of still answered









on the subject is there any ML120 P/Q curve available ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> True but you could of still answered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on the subject is there any ML120 P/Q curve available ?


I did answer, but you did not like my answer.















No, as far as I know no ML120 reviews / tests out yet.


----------



## VSG

NDA isn't up, and most have either just received the samples or they are still on the way. But as I said, these really shine with high airflow restriction relative to others. Low airflow restriction won't make them any better than an average fan, so don't buy them to replace heatsink fans unless bearing noise is a concern with your existing fans.


----------



## epic1337

i'm not sure bearing noise on HSF is even audible inside a case.

ML120 is just your typical innovative case fan, not the kind of new stuff to get hyped on.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> NDA isn't up, and most have either just received the samples or they are still on the way. But as I said, these really shine with high airflow restriction relative to others. Low airflow restriction won't make them any better than an average fan, so don't buy them to replace heatsink fans unless bearing noise is a concern with your existing fans.


Wait, what? NDA is in effect, but you can already buy these fans? Odd.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i'm not sure bearing noise on HSF is even audible inside a case.
> 
> ML120 is just your typical innovative case fan, not the kind of new stuff to get hyped on.


Depends on the fans and the case. I can hear bearing noise of some fans, if the RPM is low enough.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> i'm not sure bearing noise on HSF is even audible inside a case.
> 
> ML120 is just your typical innovative case fan, not the kind of new stuff to get hyped on.


Well, it's going to sell a ton anyway as with the SP120 ring fans. Only this time it will be justified, especially once street pricing comes to <= $22 per ML120 Pro fan. The dual pack ML120 Basic looks like a good deal so far.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Wait, what? NDA is in effect, but you can already buy these fans? Odd.
> Depends on the fans and the case. I can hear bearing noise of some fans, if the RPM is low enough.


Yup, but most retailers haven't actually received stock yet. Either way, prepare for a bunch of overview videos and some random temperature based tests. Despite how fans tend to be one of the most expensive part collectively in builds, the media generally doesn't care much.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I did answer, but you did not like my answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, as far as I know no ML120 reviews / tests out yet.


Thank you for all your comments, also your guide is rly interesting but i fail to see an answer to the question in speaking.
But you are right. It's not on the subject. I came here asking for a fan suggestion and people here asked for my case setup so it's not rly my fault derailing.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Despite how fans tend to be one of the most expensive part collectively in builds, the media generally doesn't care much.


I mean, I can imagine some people are spending too much money on fans (me included







), but for most people a 5 pack of Arctic F12 is plenty good. And it goes for like $21. Hard to imagine it being the most expensive part.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Thank you for all your comments, also your guide is rly interesting but i fail to see an answer to the question in speaking.
> But you are right. It's not on the subject. I came here asking for a fan suggestion and people here asked for my case setup so it's not rly my fault derailing.


When you do it it is your fault. Saying others did it is like jumping off a cliff because other do.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I mean, I can imagine some people are spending too much money on fans (me included
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but for most people a 5 pack of Arctic F12 is plenty good. And it goes for like $21. Hard to imagine it being the most expensive part.


Corsail is notorious for releasing product to for pre-sale and even actual selling before NDA end date.
Maybe it's to see if their cult is still blindly following and buying whatever they are hyping.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I mean, I can imagine some people are spending too much money on fans (me included
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but for most people a 5 pack of Arctic F12 is plenty good. And it goes for like $21. Hard to imagine it being the most expensive part.


I probably shouldn't say anything about the fans here then


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I mean, I can imagine some people are spending too much money on fans (me included
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but for most people a 5 pack of Arctic F12 is plenty good. And it goes for like $21. Hard to imagine it being the most expensive part.


I hear you. It's way more cost efficient to use something like the F12 or F14 at $4-7.00 each and replace every 2-3 years (which is about how often most rebuild / upgrade systems) then buy $20+ fans for 5 years of use. And that is assuming they only last a couple of years. Mine are going fine and they've been in use over 4 years now.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> I probably shouldn't say anything about the fans here then


Some of us are just plain spoiled rotten.


----------



## slavovid

Ok it's my fault. Are you satisfied now?

It's funny how i come here asking for a fan model







And you were one of the people requesting me to upload the picture of my case.
I only needed fan replacement but thanks to this thread i learned that i can improve airflow. Now asking few final questions about my case is suddenly derailing. Yes it is

Then again tricking someone to jump off a cliff is much worse isn't it?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> When you do it it is your fault. Saying others did it is like jumping off a cliff because other do.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Ok it's my fault. Are you satisfied now?
> 
> It's funny how i come here asking for a fan model
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you were one of the people requesting me to upload the picture of my case.
> I only needed fan replacement but thanks to this thread i learned that i can improve airflow. Now asking few final questions about my case is suddenly derailing. Yes it is
> 
> Then again tricking someone to jump off a cliff is much worse isn't it?


I never said I was perfect. Click on "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. Most of your questions are answered in that thread, but you have to read and learn to understand how it all works.









I wouldn't trick you into jumping.
I think you are smart enough it would be hard to do.
Much easier to just give you a push.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I never said I was perfect. Click on "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. Most of your questions are answered in that thread, but you have to read and learn to understand how it all works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't trick you into jumping.
> I think you are smart enough it would be hard to do.
> Much easier to just give you a push.


Mate i already thanked you several times for your guide








It's a good read haven't finished reading it but i found a flaw







maybe not a flaw but one has to figure it out for himself that the "little dot" doesn't spread towards the corners and if one doesn't read all of it could assume that this technique is better for all CPU's and only a few paragraphs later one can notice that the case for the FX series might be slightly different.

As said not rly a flaw but can mislead FX owners.
Maybe the graph with the tested "Thermal Compound Quantity" can have the name of the CPU used there to ring a bell earlier or adding a 2-nd graph with FX CPU.

Once again tnx for the read.

Oh and maybe i should post this there to not derail this thread .... but whatever


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> Mate i already thanked you several times for your guide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a good read haven't finished reading it but i found a flaw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe not a flaw but one has to figure it out for himself that the "little dot" doesn't spread towards the corners and if one doesn't read all of it could assume that this technique is better for all CPU's and only a few paragraphs later one can notice that the case for the FX series might be slightly different.
> 
> As said not rly a flaw but can mislead FX owners.
> Maybe the graph with the tested "Thermal Compound Quantity" can have the name of the CPU used there to ring a bell earlier or adding a 2-nd graph with FX CPU.
> 
> Once again tnx for the read.
> 
> Oh and maybe i should post this there to not derail this thread .... but whatever


Please do post it there and explain what graph you are talking about. Both Intel and AMD use the center areas of CPU for their chips. AMD are bigger square, but a round TIM print still does the job quite well. .


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> NDA isn't up, and most have either just received the samples or they are still on the way. But as I said, these really shine with high airflow restriction relative to others. Low airflow restriction won't make them any better than an average fan, so don't buy them to replace heatsink fans unless bearing noise is a concern with your existing fans.


Indeed they do. Geggeg speaks truth.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> I probably shouldn't say anything about the fans here then


Then I will do it for you then









Love these fans, fantastic! Replaced the Noctua NF-F12 IPPC and SP120's on my 480 rad with three of the ML120 Pro LED (white LED) fans, leaving one SP120 as the 4th fan. NICE improvement overall, these are just as quiet as the "SP120 Quiet Edition" but perform even better than the SP120 Performance Editions (but at lower RPM than the perf edition; rpm is sub 1000 under gaming load, under render load they ramp to about 1500rpm max and are quite quiet)

With my old setup my temps during cinebench with a 5960X at 4.6ghz 1.45v were HUGE, getting in the high 80's with some cores spiking in the 90's. Now not a single core goes over mid to high 70s at most. On my 6800K at 1.325v 4.4ghz I was getting high 70's to low 80s under 100% render load, now it stays in the high 60s to low 70s. When I was using the SP120's and the one Noctua NF-F12 industrial I would even have instability (clock watchdog error etc.. ) and ended up needing 1.355v to stabilize 4.4ghz on the 6800K, i'm now stable at 1.325v due to the temp improvements these gave me on my rads.

These are great rad fans imo. This obviously isn't a scientific test, just me giving my anecdotal experience with them; but they are overall great stuff! I'm considering getting the ML140's for my 420mm rad that still needs some fans and a 4th 120 for the last spot on the 480. That would give me 3x SP120 on my 360 rad, 4 x ML120 Pro LED on my 480 rad, and 3 x ML140 on the 420 rad if I did that.

Static pressure is DRASTICALLY improved imo from the SP120 QE at similar rpm but not any louder noise. And they are still quite decent case fans as well, just not as amazing as they are on thick heatsinks or most radiators.


----------



## VSG

Well, my review just went up. I really like these fans for water cooling, as I mentioned. Pricing needs to come down but that twin pack of the "basic" fans at $35 should be a good buy.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Well, my review just went up. I really like these fans for water cooling, as I mentioned. Pricing needs to come down but that twin pack of the "basic" fans at $35 should be a good buy.


Link?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Link?


http://thermalbench.com/2016/07/12/corsair-ml120-pro-120-mm-fan/


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> http://thermalbench.com/2016/07/12/corsair-ml120-pro-120-mm-fan/
Click to expand...

Thanks!


----------



## DarkIdeals

Wow....so the mighty Nidec Gentle Typhoon has finally met its match....



Yes, it's higher priced, but you're getting a massive 200,000 hour MTBF on these magnetic levitation bearings so I feel the price is justified. Especially the ML120 twin packs for $35 with two fans ($17.50 per fan!)

From both my and Geg's experience these appear to be just as quiet as the GT's, have slightly MORE performance in most radiator situations and high resistance heatsinks as well etc..;

I really feel I did the right choice buying these. Now i'm just wondering whether these would be more optimized for my XSPC EX 480mm rad or my HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360mm rad. Don't recall the FPI of either rad, but the GT is ~55mm thick compared to 30mm thick on the XSPC, which might give the GTX more advantage depending on the FPI optimization.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> Wow....so the mighty Nidec Gentle Typhoon has finally met its match....
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's higher priced, but you're getting a massive 200,000 hour MTBF on these magnetic levitation bearings so I feel the price is justified. Especially the ML120 twin packs for $35 with two fans ($17.50 per fan!)
> 
> From both my and Geg's experience these appear to be just as quiet as the GT's, have slightly MORE performance in most radiator situations and high resistance heatsinks as well etc..;
> 
> I really feel I did the right choice buying these. Now i'm just wondering whether these would be more optimized for my XSPC EX 480mm rad or my HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360mm rad. Don't recall the FPI of either rad, but the GT is ~55mm thick compared to 30mm thick on the XSPC, which might give the GTX more advantage depending on the FPI optimization.


Graphs make them look better than they really are.

Sound numbers and graphs are very different from actually hearing the fans. I would want to have both and use them for a week or two before saying they sound better. Our ears don't notice a 2dB difference in volume we see on a graph of in data, but our ears will hear a difference in tonal quality.

We also need to 'read the fine print'. Okay it's just normal print, but maybe it should be enlarged bold print
geggeg said
Quote:


> ML120 Pro did better *marginally* compared to the EK and Darkside GT offerings but it's *still close* to them *with error margins considered*


With an overal review rating of 85% they are no better than other top fans (PH-F120MP, GT 2150, GT 1850 PWM, etc all have 85% review rating) .. and we have no track record to know if they will last or not. Corsair has made many advertising claims of performance and life expectancy that have not proven true in the past, so why should we believe them now? After all it's more advertising hype rather than actual proof from real independent testing. We have no idea how long they will last after a few days of use. That is not saying they are bad or will not last. Just that we have almost nothing to support that the are really super good or that they will last.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Well, my review just went up. I really like these fans for water cooling, as I mentioned. Pricing needs to come down but that twin pack of the "basic" fans at $35 should be a good buy.


I'm intrigued, but it's probably worth pointing out that Sunon generally shies away from that kind of blade design, and generally prefers ball bearings to sleeves even in their Maglev series, so I would hazard a guess that Sunon simply licensed out the Maglev to Corsair, who then modified the existing SP120 design to accommodate it (along with thinning the blades and adding more of them). I'm also curious to know how it sounds when undervolted compared to on PWM; the reason for this curiosity is that I had heard before that Sunons are mostly crap for undervolting from a sound profile perspective, and I'd like to believe their bearing designs are responsible for that. Reading your note here:
Quote:


> (2) the MagLev bearing will not work well lower than 8-9 V with the bearing not levitating as it should.


I'm inclined to believe I'm on-point in both aspects here, that the bearing design is responsible for this, and that Sunon licensed it out rather than being the outright OEM. I could be wrong, of course, but this is what the circumstances and testing tell me.

All aside, nice work, though the price isn't exactly getting me all that hyped.


----------



## Cyclops

Some samples would be nice, Corsair.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Well, my review just went up. I really like these fans for water cooling, as I mentioned. Pricing needs to come down but that twin pack of the "basic" fans at $35 should be a good buy.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm intrigued, but it's probably worth pointing out that Sunon generally shies away from that kind of blade design, and generally prefers ball bearings to sleeves even in their Maglev series, so I would hazard a guess that Sunon simply licensed out the Maglev to Corsair, who then modified the existing SP120 design to accommodate it (along with thinning the blades and adding more of them). I'm also curious to know how it sounds when undervolted compared to on PWM; the reason for this curiosity is that I had heard before that Sunons are mostly crap for undervolting from a sound profile perspective, and I'd like to believe their bearing designs are responsible for that. Reading your note here:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) the MagLev bearing will not work well lower than 8-9 V with the bearing not levitating as it should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm inclined to believe I'm on-point in both aspects here, that the bearing design is responsible for this, and that Sunon licensed it out rather than being the outright OEM. I could be wrong, of course, but this is what the circumstances and testing tell me.
> 
> All aside, nice work, though the price isn't exactly getting me all that hyped.
Click to expand...

The review pointed out that these fans should not be voltage controlled.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> The review pointed out that these fans should not be voltage controlled.


Right, I'm just pointing out the one angle that wasn't really covered in the review. Again, it's a curiosity that kind of started gnawing at me when I was done reading.


----------



## doyll

I'm with Chunky_Chimp. There is just too much unknown yet to know how good / bad these fans will be. They may be the best thing to come along and they may stumble along for some time before really being good. I'm too old school to buy first release. I want to see some track history before I go spending the extreme price this are now costing .. if ever. After all, the GTs are still the reigning king if for no other reasons then their price and long proven track record.


----------



## DarkIdeals

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Graphs make them look better than they really are.
> 
> Sound numbers and graphs are very different from actually hearing the fans. I would want to have both and use them for a week or two before saying they sound better. Our ears don't notice a 2dB difference in volume we see on a graph of in data, but our ears will hear a difference in tonal quality.
> 
> We also need to 'read the fine print'. Okay it's just normal print, but maybe it should be enlarged bold print
> geggeg said
> With an overal review rating of 85% they are no better than other top fans (PH-F120MP, GT 2150, GT 1850 PWM, etc all have 85% review rating) .. and we have no track record to know if they will last or not. Corsair has made many advertising claims of performance and life expectancy that have not proven true in the past, so why should we believe them now? After all it's more advertising hype rather than actual proof from real independent testing. We have no idea how long they will last after a few days of use. That is not saying they are bad or will not last. Just that we have almost nothing to support that the are really super good or that they will last.


1st) You claim we have nowhere near enough info to make an assessment of how GOOD they are, but you go and make an objective statement like "the graph makes them look bettter than they really are" claiming to know how BAD they are. Which is even more of a logical fallacy as the graphs by Gegegg are quite well done with no reason to really doubt them, and there's ZERO evidence proving these perform ANY worse than the graph says they do. I have them and know how loud and well they perform, and my findings were literally 100% identical for the most part to what Geggeg has said.

2nd) Regarding comparison with the typhoons and the difference being marginal, 85% review etc..etc.. This is why i said the GT's have met their "MATCH" not that they were "bested" or anything. I was saying that a fan has finally been able to TIE and in the case of certain radiators SLIGHTLY outdo the GT's overall which is something no other fan has really done in the past without some other type of glaring drawback (i.e. the vardars having significant motor tick QC issues and not being "quite" as quiet in general etc..) . And i have the fans and have done a hell of a lot of listening to them since i got them, both by ear and even recorded with a studio condenser mic and db meter and they are even quieter than the SP120 quiet editions at equivalent rpm, and the SP120 Quiets were already just as quiet if not slightly more quiet than the GT's, the SP120s just didn't have the PERFORMANCE at that quiet rpm to get anywhere near the GTs. The fact of the matter is, these fans ARE slightly quieter than GTs at most common rpm speeds, and ARE slightly better performing on most radiators than the GTs.

Is that a reason to just run out right now and get a bunch of these instead of GTs especially considering price? of course not. But the twin pack is only $17.50 a fan, which is CHEAPER than the GTs, and the only difference is the twin pack ones lack the anti-vibration mounts which can be put on seperately if need be.

And actually yes we DO have a track record to know how long these will last, it has nothing to do with Corsair marketing; it's the fact that the TECH is already established (maglev bearings have been around for several years already in some form or another) and known to have massively higher MTBF lifespans. Even some of the cheapo Sunon maglev's would last damn near forever. The amount of baseless brand hate you're showing towards Corsair is kinda perplexing frankly, no offense. I just don't understand why having another top tier fan would ever be a bad thing, you can go right on picking typhoons for the rest of your life (assuming they're available) if you like. There's no such thing as a "perfect fan", i'm just happy that we have another high tier option to choose from; especially one that soars in water cooling situations. Getting well over 5C drop in CPU core temps on same rpm from SP120 to these is no joke, i'm perfectly happy with them.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'm with Chunky_Chimp. There is just too much unknown yet to know how good / bad these fans will be. They may be the best thing to come along and they may stumble along for some time before really being good. I'm too old school to buy first release. I want to see some track history before I go spending the extreme price this are now costing .. if ever. After all, the GTs are still the reigning king if for no other reasons then their price and long proven track record.


For a little clarity, I'm not expecting them to be outright bad, again, it's just a curiosity about something that wasn't covered. I should probably point out, too, that GTs got to their current status by having such a good noise profile relative to a given amount of static pressure in the curve, making them excellent all-purpose fans. It's partly on me since I had said around the time that S-Flexes, which were even better all-purpose fans, went out of production (and at a time when I had a high rep member's presence rather than a mod's, and when my say-so was worth a little more) that GTs were a good alternative if S-Fs were to not come back. More people picked up GTs, more people reviewed them, and it took off from there, even killing off relevance of thicker fans to some degree. I do have a small amount of regret that I didn't approach the situation differently, given my preference for turning down thicker fans over running as-fast thinner fans (my case is still loaded with San Aces and Panaflos), but it's not like it was really a bad thing.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkIdeals*
> 
> 1st) You claim we have nowhere near enough info to make an assessment of how GOOD they are, but you go and make an objective statement like "the graph makes them look bettter than they really are" claiming to know how BAD they are. Which is even more of a logical fallacy as the graphs by Gegegg are quite well done with no reason to really doubt them, and there's ZERO evidence proving these perform ANY worse than the graph says they do. I have them and know how loud and well they perform, and my findings were literally 100% identical for the most part to what Geggeg has said.
> 
> 2nd) Regarding comparison with the typhoons and the difference being marginal, 85% review etc..etc.. This is why i said the GT's have met their "MATCH" not that they were "bested" or anything. I was saying that a fan has finally been able to TIE and in the case of certain radiators SLIGHTLY outdo the GT's overall which is something no other fan has really done in the past without some other type of glaring drawback (i.e. the vardars having significant motor tick QC issues and not being "quite" as quiet in general etc..) . And i have the fans and have done a hell of a lot of listening to them since i got them, both by ear and even recorded with a studio condenser mic and db meter and they are even quieter than the SP120 quiet editions at equivalent rpm, and the SP120 Quiets were already just as quiet if not slightly more quiet than the GT's, the SP120s just didn't have the PERFORMANCE at that quiet rpm to get anywhere near the GTs. The fact of the matter is, these fans ARE slightly quieter than GTs at most common rpm speeds, and ARE slightly better performing on most radiators than the GTs.
> 
> Is that a reason to just run out right now and get a bunch of these instead of GTs especially considering price? of course not. But the twin pack is only $17.50 a fan, which is CHEAPER than the GTs, and the only difference is the twin pack ones lack the anti-vibration mounts which can be put on seperately if need be.
> 
> And actually yes we DO have a track record to know how long these will last, it has nothing to do with Corsair marketing; it's the fact that the TECH is already established (maglev bearings have been around for several years already in some form or another) and known to have massively higher MTBF lifespans. Even some of the cheapo Sunon maglev's would last damn near forever. The amount of baseless brand hate you're showing towards Corsair is kinda perplexing frankly, no offense. I just don't understand why having another top tier fan would ever be a bad thing, you can go right on picking typhoons for the rest of your life (assuming they're available) if you like. There's no such thing as a "perfect fan", i'm just happy that we have another high tier option to choose from; especially one that soars in water cooling situations. Getting well over 5C drop in CPU core temps on same rpm from SP120 to these is no joke, i'm perfectly happy with them.


There is not enough data or track history to say they are better. No wiggle room there mate.

Graph shows difference in sound volume levels being a couple db. Human ear needs at least 2db, usually more like 3db to 'hear' a change if volume.

Maybe the having line in graph like this will help show what I mean. the difference between each horizontal line is about the minimum the human hear can hear as a change in sound. The difference between each vertical line is about 2.6cfm. This cfm is base on FPM thorugh a 100sq cm hole. What this means is any two fan graph lines with similar spacing as yellow grid are well within the margin of error and change in performance that is not noticable in normal use.


A fan being quiet does not mean it has good airflow. AF120 are good examples of this.
The bearing is not the only component with a life expectancy in a fan. MTBF lifespan is a calculated guess.
How well are these fans going to perform with a magnetic field along side of them?
What are power spikes or low power going to do? For example we already know the y don't seem to work well on variable voltage below 8-9v.
Will some PWM controls cause them to click?
Is coil whine going to be a possible problem?
Will some grill patterns and blade design cause harmonic noise issues like Vardars do?

There are all kinds of things we do not know yet.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> For a little clarity, I'm not expecting them to be outright bad, again, it's just a curiosity about something that wasn't covered. I should probably point out, too, that GTs got to their current status by having such a good noise profile relative to a given amount of static pressure in the curve, making them excellent all-purpose fans. It's partly on me since I had said around the time that S-Flexes, which were even better all-purpose fans, went out of production (and at a time when I had a high rep member's presence rather than a mod's, and when my say-so was worth a little more) that GTs were a good alternative if S-Fs were to not come back. More people picked up GTs, more people reviewed them, and it took off from there, even killing off relevance of thicker fans to some degree. I do have a small amount of regret that I didn't approach the situation differently, given my preference for turning down thicker fans over running as-fast thinner fans (my case is still loaded with San Aces and Panaflos), but it's not like it was really a bad thing.


That brings to mind the Scythe Kaze Maru 2 (Slip Stream 140) fan that looked to be very good but lasted about as long as a snowball in hell.


----------



## VSG

Lots of good points here. Of course the long term reliability needs to be tested and this is something I might well do since I will use a couple in my HTPC build. It's not a license from Sunon as much as getting the entire assembly but customized to Corsair's preference, but I don't know any more specifics (or can't talk about them anyway even if I did).

As for voltage control, I think most people know my preference for PWM control over it but aside from a slight issue closer to 5V wherein in upside down position I could hear the bearing move (low RPM too), I didn't hear anything else. I just did this and will mention it in the review for those interested, but again I can't say that the bearing will be fine if undervolted lower than 8V or so.

There is no external magnetic field here, I did measure for it. I don't know if an external magnetic field will affect things, but it's a non issue inside a PC.

I have decided I won't bother talking about MTBF numbers anymore, along with rated SP, airflow and noise specs. It's not like end users will use these for 50k hours of operation even.

I am curious about the pricing drop on the Noctua fans recently. It's not a coincidence that suddenly all the major retailers in the US have dropped pricing by 25-30% for the more popular/expensive models. Is this the same in other countries also?


----------



## Cakewalk_S

So maglev fans are the new thing? Corsair and cooler Master now have them... Hmm...

I think I'll stick with my f12 fans at 6v for now... Basically can't hear them and I don't need a huge amount of airflow for my itx case...


----------



## VSG

Can you please link me to the Cooler Master fans with MagLev bearings? Anything to help lower prices of these, I will use


----------



## doyll

@geggeg, just looked at UK prices on Nocs and they do appear to be down some. NF-A14s-redux are £12.39


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @geggeg, just looked at UK prices on Nocs and they do appear to be down some. NF-A14s-redux are £12.39


Yeah, some resellers I spoke to confirmed this price drop. Interesting move. However much we may think otherwise, Corsair and Noctua are the big fan players in this market.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Yeah, some resellers I spoke to confirmed this price drop. Interesting move. However much we may think otherwise, Corsair and Noctua are the big fan players in this market.


Can't argue with that.








Nocs were price quite high. I know I steered peeps to other fans because of price difference and no other reason. some of the others are not quite as good, but were so close at much lower prices it was a no-brainer to not buy Nocs.

I'm going out on a limb here and going to predict we will see some of the other popular fans lower their prices too.


----------



## VSG

Agreed, I have no problem recommending the better Noctua fans now at these prices. A pricing decrease is always good too


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Lots of good points here. Of course the long term reliability needs to be tested and this is something I might well do since I will use a couple in my HTPC build. It's not a license from Sunon as much as getting the entire assembly but customized to Corsair's preference, but I don't know any more specifics (or can't talk about them anyway even if I did).


Hmm, so they'd be the bearing OEM rather than the whole fan OEM. Interesting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> As for voltage control, I think most people know my preference for PWM control over it but aside from a slight issue closer to 5V wherein in upside down position I could hear the bearing move (low RPM too), I didn't hear anything else. I just did this and will mention it in the review for those interested, but again I can't say that the bearing will be fine if undervolted lower than 8V or so.


Also interesting, that makes these actually better than Sunons noise-wise for undervolting. Obviously you aren't recommending that anyone do it, but still good to know.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> Hmm, so they'd be the bearing OEM rather than the whole fan OEM. Interesting.
> Also interesting, that makes these actually better than Sunons noise-wise for undervolting. Obviously you aren't recommending that anyone do it, but still good to know.


I don't know if they are just the bearing OEM or not, that's between the two entities. But there's definitely a strong Sunon influence here.


----------



## slavovid

I got my 2xML120's pack today. Installed them along with several hours of modding this old case. Paired with 2 cooler masters SF120 my CPU is running at full load at lower temperatures than before and with fans running at around 50-60%


----------



## mukumi

Hey guys,

What are good intake fans for the floor with a dust filter? I've tried the Silverstone AP123 but with the restriction induce by the filter it's like they turn for nothing (using a low voltage to prevent noise).

I was looking at the Fractal Design GP-12 or Venturi HF-12 and Cooler Master Silencio Fp120. But if you have a good recommendation i'm open to it. Thanks!


----------



## Stalefish

OK so here is a litle rant









-- Rant Start --

I got so tired of my Vardar fans that i accully threw them in the garbage bin yesterday.
I really wanted to use them, all my water cooling stuff is EK, love the brand overall!

I had 6 vardar 1850 rpm version and yes the airflow and the pressure and overall cooling capacity was great!
I put the fans in and i took them out of my system like 3 times before i made up my mind.

Problem for me was 4 of 6 fans(!) hade a grinding/Squeeky noise from the motor.
(I tested them all individually)

It was in that "Shove a screwdriver in my ear" frequenzy range that you could hear anywhere in your appartment.









I only watercool 2 components and have a overkill rad-setup to run fans in a low rpm mode, and i did run the fans @ 1000rpm but didnt mather, what rpm same sound anyways.

-- Rant End --

So now my problem is that i have 3x SP120 fans and 3x noctua nf-s12b 1200 pwm fans in my rig (2x PE 360)
And i have NO IDEA what fans to use The Noctua fans i use have better specs then the sp120 fans but i dont know. The redux fans are grey. haha... olleyes.gif

*Any recomendations for other fans?*

And dont say gentle tyfoons, they have stoped making them and i cant get them here in Sweden.

Have been looking at the Corsair ML120 but few reviews out yet.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stalefish*
> 
> *Any recomendations for other fans?*
> 
> And dont say gentle tyfoons, they have stoped making them and i cant get them here in Sweden.
> 
> Have been looking at the Corsair ML120 but few reviews out yet.


I suggest Gentle Typoons
They are still being made and sold
The 1850 and 2150 rpm are availbe in PWM now too.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gentle+typhoon

Phanteks PH-F120MP are good too.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ph-f120mp&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aph-f120mp

ML 120 maybe a great fan, like you said not much available about it. I will give them at least 6 months of use before I would even consider them. Look how good your Vardars looked in reviews.









PS: if you can retrieve our Vardars from the bin I'll pay shipping to get them from you.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mukumi*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> What are good intake fans for the floor with a dust filter? I've tried the Silverstone AP123 but with the restriction induce by the filter it's like they turn for nothing (using a low voltage to prevent noise).
> 
> I was looking at the Fractal Design GP-12 or Venturi HF-12 and Cooler Master Silencio Fp120. But if you have a good recommendation i'm open to it. Thanks!


Same answers as above. GTs or PH-F120MP will do the job nicely. Venturi may too, I don't know.


----------



## Cyclops

A mysterious package showed up at my doorsteps today, containing a couple of cooling products named ML120 Pro from a company called corsair.

I may need to investigate this.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> A mysterious package showed up at my doorsteps today, containing a couple of cooling products named ML120 Pro from a company called corsair.
> 
> I may need to investigate this.


Congrats!








I think
Did they include a magic elixir that solves all ailments known to man?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think
> Did they include a magic elixir that solves all ailments known to man?


Don't be silly, that was invented in 2007.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Don't be silly, that was invented in 2007.


Anything from Thermalright yet?
I saw the TY-147Asq, TY-143sq, TY-141sq advertised in Germany for sale now.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Anything from Thermalright yet?
> I saw the TY-147Asq, TY-143sq, TY-141sq advertised in Germany for sale now.


Oh, good, Germany. That's like, North America, right?

No, nothing yet. They've probably forgotten to send anything.


----------



## doyll

We shall see.

Looking forward to your results and thoughts of ML 120.


----------



## mukumi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I suggest Gentle Typoons
> They are still being made and sold
> The 1850 and 2150 rpm are availbe in PWM now too.
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gentle+typhoon
> 
> Phanteks PH-F120MP are good too.
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ph-f120mp&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aph-f120mp
> 
> ML 120 maybe a great fan, like you said not much available about it. I will give them at least 6 months of use before I would even consider them. Look how good your Vardars looked in reviews.


Thanks, they look quite expensive here in Europe, I find them both around 25€. I guess I'll pick only one instead of two (which should be enough).

Which one would you absolutely recommend out of the phanteks and the scythe?


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mukumi*
> 
> Thanks, they look quite expensive here in Europe, I find them both around 25€. I guess I'll pick only one instead of two (which should be enough).
> 
> Which one would you absolutely recommend out of the phanteks and the scythe?


How much is the PH-F120MP there? I can't imagine it would be more than 20 euros even but stranger things have happened. Mayhems carries the Darkside GTs also so that is another option.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mukumi*
> 
> Thanks, they look quite expensive here in Europe, I find them both around 25€. I guess I'll pick only one instead of two (which should be enough).
> 
> Which one would you absolutely recommend out of the phanteks and the scythe?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> How much is the PH-F120MP there? I can't imagine it would be more than 20 euros even but stranger things have happened. Mayhems carries the Darkside GTs also so that is another option.


What geggeg said.
German amazon has them for €16,83
https://www.amazon.de/PHANTEKS-PH-F120MP-120mm-L%C3%BCfter-schwarz/dp/B00OP2PUB8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468591651&sr=8-1&keywords=ph-f120mp

@mukumi, what country are you in?


----------



## mukumi

Belgium, so you can add between 3 to 4 euros for the delivery. I got a premium account on amazon.fr, the delivery is free there but the PH-F120MP is at 26€ :s

It looks like the MP have been replaced by SP / XP in most places. The Gentle Typhoons in stock on amazon cannot be dispatched to Belgium (yes some weird rules sometimes on amazon for EU)

Maybe the noiseblocker B12-3 ?


----------



## Stalefish

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> A mysterious package showed up at my doorsteps today, containing a couple of cooling products named ML120 Pro from a company called corsair.
> I may need to investigate this.


Oh! Please report back









Ive heard they are ok up to 1300 rpm noise wise. But dont know what the static pressure is at that rpm.


----------



## VSG

While he's taking a look at the ML120, I got some ML140 here now:


----------



## Cyclops

Blade design looks very similar to Yate Loons


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Blade design looks very similar to Yate Loons


You mean, just about every other fan. I am sure there are small differences here and there but I am not going to go out of my way to find out.

It works though, so no complaints.


----------



## rioja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> While he's taking a look at the ML120, I got some ML140 here now:


Hi, what's the difference between ML140 and ML140 Pro? I doubt that it's only rubber dampers.

Also, do they have the same black color of frame? Because on pictures ML140 frame looks more greyish, than Pro


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rioja*
> 
> Hi, what's the difference between ML140 and ML140 Pro? I doubt that it's only rubber dampers.
> 
> Also, do they have the same black color of frame? Because on pictures ML140 frame looks more greyish, than Pro


Grey impeller, no rubber corner pads, no interchangeable corners, no LED options. That's all I was told. The picture on their website is a bit washed out on one set, and then the other is less exposed to show the grey impeller so that could explain the slight different in the frame but I don't believe the frame is grey.


----------



## rioja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Grey impeller, no rubber corner pads, no interchangeable corners, no LED options. That's all I was told. The picture on their website is a bit washed out on one set, and then the other is less exposed to show the grey impeller so that could explain the slight different in the frame but I don't believe the frame is grey.


Do you expect to get basic ML soon for a review? I just like black frame/grey impeller style like Vardars or Typhoons, so MLs suite better for me, but I would not like to lose quality because of it


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rioja*
> 
> Do you expect to get basic ML soon for a review? I just like black frame/grey impeller style like Vardars or Typhoons, so MLs suite better for me, but I would not like to lose quality because of it


Not that I know of. Corsair is sending the Pro fans out to the media in general because they expect customers would be more willing to pay the extra for aesthetics in general, which is probably true.


----------



## Cyclops

120mm Fan #80 - Corsair ML120 Pro:





So, here we are with Corsairs latest cooling product, the ML120 Pro. Corsair claim to be a jack of all trades with the ML120, and they're not far off. To start with, these are pricey units, and often cost more than competing products from Noctua and other premium cooling fan manufacturers. The price should stabilize in the coming months as the market self-adjusts.

The key takeaway here is the Magnetic Levitation bearings, or so they claim. I'm not a bearing technician myself so I wouldn't be able to tell you if they make a difference or not. What I can tell you, however, is that they are very quiet at ~1150 RPM using a 5V adapter -considered by me to be the sweet spot for these fans. Build quality is excellent and the fan looks just right. They are fairly heavy at 214 gram per unit. I'm guessing the mag lev system has something to do with it.

Now, I usually never test fans with hardware that are not provided in the box, but given the hype and the high-profile launch, I couldn't just let them loose at maximum RPM (~2400) and call it a day. I used two home made 5 and 7V molex adapters to reduce the RPM for a more realistic usage scenario. I couldn't register RPM using a 7V adapter but I suspect it to be around the ~1700 RPM mark. With the 5V adapter, ~1150 RPM is attainable which happened to be the sweet spot for the ML120. Corsair Claims 400 to 2400 RPM PWM range which is fine, but I doubt anyone would run any 120mm fan at anything bellow 600-800 RPM as these units are nearly inaudible at 1150 RPM. Still, good to have the option.

In push, ML120 Pro is mostly untouchable by fans with similar performance and noise level. In pull, it just lags behind the NF-P12 with almost identical sound levels when a 5 or 7v reducer is used. In push/pull, it's pretty much tied with the P12 for the top spot. The efficiency is really good.

Overall, this is a pretty decent product. At 25 dollars MSRP, they are fairly expensive, but they are the closest thing to match the legendary NF-P12 in my tests while providing better aesthetics and operational capability.


----------



## VSG

Why are you using voltage control on these fans at all? I warned people about it









The weight has to do with the fiber glass injected PBT on the frame and impeller, not the bearing.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Why are you using voltage control on these fans at all? I warned people about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The weight has to do with the fiber glass injected PBT on the frame and impeller, not the bearing.


They seem to work fine, what's the problem?


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> They seem to work fine, what's the problem?


The MagLev is powered by VDC as well, so if you are below ~8 V or so then it won't necessarily be ok- esp if upside down or vertical. The ML140 Pro here I could actually hear some scraping at 5 V when I purposely rotated it. Not realistic, but then again it may get worse with time. I don't recommend running PWM fans under voltage anyway, but this is one extreme case.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> The MagLev is powered by VDC as well, so if you are below ~8 V or so then it won't necessarily be ok- esp if upside down or vertical. The ML140 Pro here I could actually hear some scraping at 5 V when I purposely rotated it. Not realistic, but then again it may get worse with time. I don't recommend running PWM fans under voltage anyway, but this is one extreme case.


Seemed fine in my tests, maybe I'll follow up later.


----------



## mukumi

Hey guys,

Small feedback from me. I finally decided to go with two Fractal Venturi HF-14 as front intake in my PC case (Thermatalke F51).

I first tested two Noctua NF-A14 but the motor noise was too audible, I then tested Silverstone AP143 but the airflow was not that good due to the dust filter + door closed.

With the Fractal ones I'm getting some nice airflow even with those restrictions and they are less noisy that the two other contenders at 7v.

But I cannot run them higher than 7V due to the construction of the case. As you can see there on this picture there are horizontal bars in front of the fan and due to that it gets noisy with the motor if the RPM is too high. I would cut those If I had a dremel but anyway 7v is the sweet spot.

Now I'll keep an eye on those Phanteks MP120 / NB Eloop / Gentle Typhoon for the floor case. IF they get a nice price drop I guess I'll take one.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mukumi*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Small feedback from me. I finally decided to go with two Fractal Venturi HF-14 as front intake in my PC case (Thermatalke F51).
> 
> I first tested two Noctua NF-A14 but the motor noise was too audible, I then tested Silverstone AP143 but the airflow was not that good due to the dust filter + door closed.
> 
> With the Fractal ones I'm getting some nice airflow even with those restrictions and they are less noisy that the two other contenders at 7v.
> 
> But I cannot run them higher than 7V due to the construction of the case. As you can see there on this picture there are horizontal bars in front of the fan and due to that it gets noisy with the motor if the RPM is too high. I would cut those If I had a dremel but anyway 7v is the sweet spot.
> 
> Now I'll keep an eye on those Phanteks MP120 / NB Eloop / Gentle Typhoon for the floor case. IF they get a nice price drop I guess I'll take one.


Good feedback!








Have you tried removing the vent grill. The one in front of front filter. Seems to serve function. The filter frame is behind it and the door means no-one can see it anyway.

I agree, the fan mounting panel has way too much metal blocking airflow and making noise, but it is what it is. It would be good to keep the middle horizontal bar with fans spaced so that where they come together in middle is over that bar.


----------



## ChaosBlades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Seemed fine in my tests, maybe I'll follow up later.


Might want to re-test, I came here to state the same thing. They need 12V and to be adjusted via PWM. OC3D states the same in the time stamped video below.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaosBlades*
> 
> Might want to re-test, I came here to state the same thing. They need 12V and to be adjusted via PWM. OC3D states the same in the time stamped video below.


Yeah, I understand. It's just that the 5V and 7V were meant to lock the RPM in. In a real world scenario, you would use PWM to control the RPM, not voltage. The RIIE lacks such flexibility.


----------



## ChaosBlades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Yeah, I understand. It's just that the 5V and 7V were meant to lock the RPM in. In a real world scenario, you would use PWM to control the RPM, not voltage. The RIIE lacks such flexibility.


I understand that, just saying results might not be completely accurate, perhaps a disclaimer for the time being. For all we know at the current time running in DC could just reduce the life of the bearing.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaosBlades*
> 
> Might want to re-test, I came here to state the same thing. They need 12V and to be adjusted via PWM. OC3D states the same in the time stamped video below.


What a load of garbage!

I skimmed though his 22 minutes of flapping lips and didn't hear anything about what makes this fan what it is, it's magnetic levitation bearing.

While what he is saying abut 12v power and PWM giving more toruqe is true, it has nothing to do with the magnetic levitation bearing needing a specified voltage to work properly.

Magnetic levitation bearings are one thing.
PWM control is something else entirely.

Almost all PWM fan motors work just fine with variable voltage control. the ML 120 does not work on variable voltage not because of the motor, but because it's magnetic levitation bearing need more voltage then variable voltage provides at low speed.

The written review says:
Quote:


> To put things simply Corsair has redesigned their fan motor, replacing their traditional motor design with one that makes use of Magnetic Levitation technology, allowing Corsair to make a fan without the "motor whine" that most people associate with high-end PCs.


"Motor whine" is not just caused by bearings. More often than not electric motor whine is the result of the motor itself, not the bearing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaosBlades*
> 
> I understand that, just saying results might not be completely accurate, perhaps a disclaimer for the time being. For all we know at the current time running in DC could just reduce the life of the bearing.


Your OC3D review needs the disclaimer for spoutng garbage. Cyclops actually tested the fan. Mark just flapped his lips and acts impotant.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What a load of garbage!


That's TTL for you







.

Lots of talks and regurgitation and implying that the viewer is an imbecile because "it get's a bit confusing".


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> "Motor whine" is not just caused by bearings. More often than not electric motor whine is the result of the motor itself, not the bearing.


agreed, half of the motor whine are actually caused by loose winding, similar to coil wines on VRMs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> While what he is saying abut 12v power and PWM giving more toruqe is true, it has nothing to do with the magnetic levitation bearing needing a specified voltage to work properly.


not true, maglevs load capacity highly depends on voltage.
too low input voltage will cause the maglev to drop in power due to insufficient current, meaning the maglev will fail.

and the opposite is also true, putting more power on the maglev will help it stabilize even more, specially during heavy loads (or high RPM in this case).
in a fans case, its primary purpose is to forcibly suppress the vibrations caused by airfoil vibration and impeller vibration.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> agreed, half of the motor whine are actually caused by loose winding, similar to coil wines on VRMs.
> not true, maglevs load capacity highly depends on voltage.
> too low input voltage will cause the maglev to drop in power due to insufficient current, meaning the maglev will fail.
> 
> and the opposite is also true, putting more power on the maglev will help it stabilize even more, specially during heavy loads.
> in a fans case, its primary purpose is to forcibly suppress the vibrations caused by aeroelasticity (airfoil vibration) and centrifugal forces (impeller vibration).


You misunderstood what I was saying.

PWM motor speed control has nothing to do with maglev needing a specified minimum voltage to function properly.
PWM is motor control only.
Voltage required for maglev to function properly is a different thing
On PWM both recieve 12v, and I assume 12v is optimal for this maglev bearing.
If fan is ran on variable voltage the fan speed will be controled no problem, but the maglev will not be getting the 12v it need to function properly.
Quote:


> While what he is saying abut 12v power and PWM giving more toruqe is true, it _has nothing to do with the magnetic levitation bearing needing a specified voltage to work properly_.


PWM control of fan motor is one thing.
1st sentence is about PWM motor control

_Power requirement of maglev bearing is another._
2nd sentence is about maglev bearing needing a specific voltage to work properly, not variable voltage which may drop too low to power the maglev.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You misunderstood what I was saying.
> 
> PWM motor speed control has nothing to do with maglev needing a specified minimum voltage to function properly.
> PWM control of fan motor is one thing.
> 1st sentence is about PWM motor control
> 
> _Power requirement of maglev bearing is another._
> 2nd sentence is about maglev bearing needing a specific voltage to work properly, not variable voltage which may drop too low to power the maglev.


ah yes, the maglevs on these fans are decoupled from the PWM driver on the fan.
so they take in power directly from the source while ignoring the PWM signals.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> ah yes, the maglevs on these fans are decoupled from the PWM driver on the fan.
> so they take in power directly from the source while ignoring the PWM signals.


Exactly!








The 12v source is constant on PWM fans, so maglev has constant 12v source of power
But not on variable voltage becuase the fan power lead is changing voltage to lower fan speed.
So if fan is on a PWM header it has 12v constant power .. what the maglev needs.
On variable voltage it only has 12v when fan is running at full speed. As voltage drops and fan slows down there is a point at which the maglev will no longer function and fan will not be using maglev bearing, but the actual shaft that is in the fan motor to keep it in place when it is not running. This shat is not designed to be used as a bearing when fan motor is in use.
I know you know all of this.








The detailed explanation is for others who don't.


----------



## epic1337

right, though this reminded me, i wonder if corsair thought of making the fan with a separate power connector for the maglev.
this would allow it to run on variable voltage, and a simple Y-cable will allow it to run on PWM headers.
and on the other hand, this would allow us to "experiment" on providing more power for the maglevs, who knows maybe it can become even more quieter at 24V input.

this would add like, 50cents on the cost or probably even less, so its not that much of an issue, considering this fan is already really expensive.


----------



## Cyclops

I'm not sure how this maglev minimum voltage thing is a... thing.

At full blast (2400 RPM), the fan was only using 3 watts of power which is 0.25 amp on the 12v rail. There are many many different fans that use the same amount of power to spin at a similar RPM range, sometimes even more. I don't think the maglev system is using any substantial amount of power.

Surely, if voltage control was a problem, Corsair would have said something in the user manual, specially if it would affect the operational life of the fan. This don't-use-voltage-control thingy is blown way out of proportion.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> right, though this reminded me, i wonder if corsair thought of making the fan with a separate power connector for the maglev.
> this would allow it to run on variable voltage, and a simple Y-cable will allow it to run on PWM headers.
> and on the other hand, this would allow us to "experiment" on providing more power for the maglevs, who knows maybe it can become even more quieter at 24V input.
> 
> this would add like, 50cents on the cost or probably even less, so its not that much of an issue, considering this fan is already really expensive.


It would require the fan be wired completely different with two power leads; one for maglev circuit and one for motor / PWM circuit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I'm not sure how this maglev minimum voltage thing is a... thing.
> 
> At full blast (2400 RPM), the fan was only using 3 watts of power which is 0.25 amp on the 12v rail. There are many many different fans that use the same amount of power to spin at a similar RPM range, sometimes even more. I don't think the maglev system is using any substantial amount of power.
> 
> Surely, if voltage control was a problem, Corsair would have said something in the user manual, specially if it would affect the operational life of the fan. This don't-use-voltage-control thingy is blown way out of proportion.


It's a 'thing' because the maglev bearing is not designed to function in near as wide a range as a variable voltage fan motor can run.

'Power' is a combination of volts and amps, not one or the other. My reference to 'power' is voltage requirement of maglev, not the amp load it uses.

This is what geggeg said in his review:
Quote:


> The fans hit an average of 762 RPM at 3.6 V before shutting down, and even here it was inconsistent among the 4 samples. Restarting voltage once shut down was between 4-4.2 V for the various samples. Aside from the shorter range of operation, there are 2 other reasons why you may not want to do voltage control: (1) the LED brightness will be affected for the LED models, and (2) the MagLev bearing will not work well lower than 8-9 V with the bearing not levitating as it should. Without long term testing at lower voltages, I can't say what the effect of this will be but I do not want to find out for myself and neither do I recommend you do so either. Please- stick to PWM control here.
> 
> (Edit: July 13, 2016- I noticed a few people misunderstanding what I meant above. The bearing suddenly does not become a sleeve bearing and be prone to issues under voltage control. Sleeve bearings also are not a particular item that goes bad at a particular time but that's a discussion for another time. I am trying to refrain people from using voltage control here as the electromagnetic field generated that helps levitate the bearing will be powered via a constant 12 V when using PWM control. If using voltage control, the strength of said field will change and effect the nature of the fan. Given this is advertised as a PWM fan, I am reviewing it as such and so I have no issues with any potential issues under voltage control. Neither should you. If you use voltage control for whatever reason despite my recommendations, please try to stick to 8-12 V or so. I went even below and found no audible issues even till 5 V but again I do not recommend it.)


To put it simply using variable voltage lower than 8-9 V does not supply the maglev bearing with high enough voltage for it to function as designed.


----------



## slavovid

So in other words the test of the MagLev fans will not be exactly accurate *for noise* at low speeds using voltage control it has to be redone with PWN control.

btw Doyll i got 2 of them with the case mods i did and i am getting way better performance than what i had with the NB's and before the case modding (drilling out grills adding 1 filtered intake etc.)

I run them atm during gaming they are around 40% speed the system that is OC-ed now is getting temperatures that i was getting with the NB at 60%+ before an OC ... and i can't even hear them








Oh and the OC is also sweet







FX 8350 upped from 4000/4200 boost to 4320/4875 boost

Temps are cool / noise is low /

Edited Bald part.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> So in other words the test of the MagLev fans will not be exactly accurate at low speeds using voltage control it has to be redone with PWN control.
> 
> btw Doyll i got 2 of them with the case mods i did and i am getting way better performance than what i had with the NB's and before the case modding (drilling out grills adding 1 filtered intake etc.)
> 
> I run them atm during gaming they are around 40% speed the system that is OC-ed now is getting temperatures that i was getting with the NB at 60%+ before an OC ... and i can't even hear them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and the OC is also sweet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX 8350 upped from 4000/4200 boost to 4320/4875 boost
> 
> Temps are cool / noise is low /


I think Cyclops testing is accurate. The fans move the same airflow at same rpm on PWM control as on variable voltage. The only possible difference might be bearing noise if maglev is not working properly. This would be more likely to happen in horizontal use then vertical..

Glad your mods and fan changes work well.


----------



## slavovid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I think Cyclops testing is accurate. The fans move the same airflow at same rpm on PWM control as on variable voltage. The only possible difference might be bearing noise if maglev is not working properly. This would be more likely to happen in horizontal use then vertical..
> 
> Glad your mods and fan changes work well.


My bad i thought it was clear that i mean noise in low speeds will edit my above post for people to not get confused


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slavovid*
> 
> My bad i thought it was clear that i mean noise in low speeds will edit my above post for people to not get confused


While it is possible the noise level at low speed may be slightly inaccurate with voltage control, I don't think it would be more than +/-1dBA .. which is less than our ears can hear.

Combine this with the fact the sound threshold / floor / lowest sound level most of us live in is 25-30dBA means any fan making less than 25-30dBA is as quiet or quieter than the sound level around it .. so we can't hear it anyway. Sure, there are a few exceptionally quiet places and people with extremely sensitive hearing, but not many..


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sure, there are a few exceptionally quiet places and people with extremely sensitive hearing, but not many..


Do you mean a certain cat?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Do you mean a certain cat?


Him too.








Where is that cat? Is he using up one of his nine lives or something?


----------



## slavovid

A side question what happens with the sound of a case with 5 fans of XXdb and the sound of the same case with 5 fans with XX+1db

I am thinking that the difference between the two won't be 1 db correct?


----------



## Mads1

Im hoping to get the new corsair ml fans for my new build, but not sure yet as just forked out for ek vardars, anybody tell me if they are worth it.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Him too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is that cat? Is he using up one of his nine lives or something?


The cat has been quietly working to keep the pride restocked with tuna and quiet coolers.

While the noise floor numbers being brandished about here are indeed low, I fear there's a dB fetish developing. The decibel scale was created to semi-accurately correspond with our feline human auditory perception and acoustic sound power using logarithmic scaling. It's a useful single figure of merit, usually steady state, measuring system. And easily manipulated for 'promotional' purposes.

What no external measurement system has modeled yet is perception. Studies from the previous century revealed that the 'ear/brain analyzer' can hear deep into the noise floor. And is very sensitive to low Q resonances. Resonances that hardly make a .3dB blip on a FR chart.

So...even quiet systems by 'objective' standards can generate artifacts that can be perceived. And in my case, as annoying.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> The cat has been quietly working to keep the pride restocked with tuna and quiet coolers.
> 
> While the noise floor numbers being brandished about here are indeed low, I fear there's a dB fetish developing. The decibel scale was created to semi-accurately correspond with our feline human auditory perception and acoustic sound power using logarithmic scaling. It's a useful single figure of merit, usually steady state, measuring system. And easily manipulated for 'promotional' purposes.
> 
> What no external measurement system has modeled yet is perception. Studies from the previous century revealed that the 'ear/brain analyzer' can hear deep into the noise floor. And is very sensitive to low Q resonances. Resonances that hardly make a .3dB blip on a FR chart.
> 
> So...even quiet systems by 'objective' standards can generate artifacts that can be perceived. And in my case, as annoying.


The woes of building a quiet system to only have your auditory enjoyment foiled by a buzzing fridge three rooms over... Or a hissing amp. Or your lamp buzzing.

I've got my little nephew living with me for the summer and his PC has two HDDs. They're mounted in plastic brackets but, wow, are they loud. No wonder a lot of people go saying things like "these fans are quiet enough", and other such nonsense


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> The cat has been quietly working to keep the pride restocked with tuna and quiet coolers.
> 
> While the noise floor numbers being brandished about here are indeed low, I fear there's a dB fetish developing. The decibel scale was created to semi-accurately correspond with our feline human auditory perception and acoustic sound power using logarithmic scaling. It's a useful single figure of merit, usually steady state, measuring system. And easily manipulated for 'promotional' purposes.
> 
> What no external measurement system has modeled yet is perception. Studies from the previous century revealed that the 'ear/brain analyzer' can hear deep into the noise floor. And is very sensitive to low Q resonances. Resonances that hardly make a .3dB blip on a FR chart.
> 
> So...even quiet systems by 'objective' standards can generate artifacts that can be perceived. And in my case, as annoying.


I think it's more tuna than than dB.









I seem to remember a sound measurement that was based on what we hear rather than pressure like dB .. but I can't pull it out of the mist.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> The woes of building a quiet system to only have your auditory enjoyment foiled by a buzzing fridge three rooms over... Or a hissing amp. Or your lamp buzzing.
> 
> I've got my little nephew living with me for the summer and his PC has two HDDs. They're mounted in plastic brackets but, wow, are they loud. No wonder a lot of people go saying things like "these fans are quiet enough", and other such nonsense


Indeed.
It's all about the difference in dB and what we consider sound versus noise.
Sound is what we hear. Noise is unwanted sound.
The cat makes a meowing sound. Some hear this as unwanted noise. Some hear this as pleasant sound.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I seem to remember a sound measurement that was based on what we hear rather than pressure like dB .. but I can't pull it out of the mist.


You probably remember "sone" which is about subjective loudness of sound.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You probably remember "sone" which is about subjective loudness of sound.


That's it!








I saw "sone" without even reading you post and remembered.


----------



## Loladinas

Does anyone even publish their fan specs using sone, except for Blacknoise?


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Does anyone even publish their fan specs using sone, except for Blacknoise?


i haven't even seen sone being used for a while now, so i don't think they do.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Does anyone even publish their fan specs using sone, except for Blacknoise?
> 
> 
> 
> i haven't even seen sone being used for a while now, so i don't think they do.
Click to expand...

IIRC Arctic Cooling uses sone for sound measurement... Seems like a gimmick since it's not really a concrete measurable form of sound but whatever...They still make good fans.


----------



## Cyclops

Why won't one of you guys make a fanless system? It's not hard with the correct components. You've got fanless PSU and CPU coolers, and you can use a Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus to cool your GPU.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Why won't one of you guys make a fanless system? It's not hard with the correct components. You've got fanless PSU and CPU coolers, and you can use a Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus to cool your GPU.


Not really feasible with an overclocked 4790k and a regular over the counter heatsink. In a custom case, yeah sure, it's been done before. Unless you mean "fanless" as in "no fans on heatsinks, but there are a few case fans". That's totally doable, but there's no point for that, since all of the fans in my case spin at 300-500RPM range during desktop use/gaming.

I could totally go fanless on my GPU tho. Tested it out, doesn't go past 60-65C with ~25C tcase while gaming, even overclocked. Added fans to test the temps with them, and too lazy to remove them now.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Why won't one of you guys make a fanless system? It's not hard with the correct components. You've got fanless PSU and CPU coolers, and you can use a Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus to cool your GPU.


Have you seen this guys custom system?





So quiet you can hear your heart beat.


----------



## Stalefish

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Have you seen this guys custom system?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So quiet you can hear your heart beat.


Yeah haha i think he is great! That happy approach in the vid does the trick!
I thought i wanted my pc quiet untill he came and popped my ego baloon.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stalefish*
> 
> Yeah haha i think he is great! That happy approach in the vid does the trick!
> I thought i wanted my pc quiet untill he came and popped my ego baloon.


I hate video reviews and tutorials in general. But I did watch his build log as well. He did a remarkable job of making a very quiet system in a very stylish custom case with only basic hand tools.


----------



## Cyclops

My new system is now ultra quiet. Changed the board, CPU, RAM, GPU, and PSU.

Fans hover at around 500 RPM and temps are very low. GPU gets to 43C under Crysis 3 after 30 minutes of gameplay.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> My new system is now ultra quiet. Changed the board, CPU, RAM, GPU, and PSU.
> 
> *Fans hover* at around 500 RPM and temps are very low. GPU gets to 43C under Crysis 3 after 30 minutes of gameplay.


Ooooh...Hover Fans! No wonder it's so quiet. If you tether the fans to keep them in the room, is it still quiet? How many P12s at 500rpm are required for hovering?









Congrats on the quiet, cool system. Now you only have to tackle this noisy thread. Good luck with that.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Ooooh...Hover Fans! No wonder it's so quiet. If you tether the fans to keep them in the room, is it still quiet? How many P12s at 500rpm are required for hovering?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the quiet, cool system. Now you only have to tackle this noisy thread. Good luck with that.


Whenever they let you out of the bag, you have to make a mess in my clean thread!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Whenever they let you out of the bag, you have to make a mess in my clean thread!


Maybe convert one of your 'hover' fans into a 'hoover' fan and suck him back into the bag.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Hover to hoover...snort...choke...




























...gasp...good one!


----------



## MicroCat

oh sure
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Hover to hoover...snort...choke...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...gasp...good one!


Oh sure..fan the flames of this metaphoric _cat_astrophe. Axially tho, I appreciate the levity in his bearing.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> oh sure
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Hover to hoover...snort...choke...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...gasp...good one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure..fan the flames of this metaphoric _cat_astrophe. Axially tho, I appreciate the levity in his bearing.
Click to expand...

My, aren't we punny today. Good retort!







Worry not; this ill wind shall blow over.


----------



## MicroCat

If we can't be funny, at least we can still have pun.


----------



## Cyclops

I thought this forum was against Feline registrations.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I thought this forum was against Feline registrations.


No need to get catty.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> No need to get catty.


Can't help it, I may have Cataracts.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> No need to get catty.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Can't help it, I may have Cataracts.


Don't stop! This is pawfect.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Can't help it, I may have Cataracts.


My cataracts are far from pawfect.


----------



## Cyclops

Speaking of derailing this thread off its original PLANET.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald




----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*


So cute! But is that AC fan whisker silent?


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Speaking of derailing this thread off its original PLANET.


----------



## MicroCat

We
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Speaking of derailing this thread off its original PLANET.


Well...with the title: *Fans!!! The most complete and comprehensive array of tests and benchmarks* it's only natural that it would spiral galaxy out of control.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> We
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Speaking of derailing this thread off its original PLANET.
> 
> 
> 
> Well...with the title: *Fans!!! The most complete and comprehensive array of tests and benchmarks* it's only natural that it would spiral galaxy out of control.
Click to expand...


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> We
> Well...with the title: *Fans!!! The most complete and comprehensive array of tests and benchmarks* it's only natural that it would spiral galaxy out of control.


actually, the word "fans" can mean two things, so with the thread's title it can be just about anything.


----------



## AMDATI

;P


----------



## MicroCat

OMG! Is the new Noc 200mm fan, so powerful it needs a full metal jacket and capable of causing catastrophonic decor damage?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> OMG! Is the new Noc 200mm fan, so powerful it needs a full metal jacket and capable of causing catastrophonic decor damage?


What drugs you on now?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> What drugs you on now?


Still the same old standard issue factory imagination. Now with cattitude!


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Still the same old standard issue factory imagination. Now with cattitude!


I found your favorite game:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/498330/


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I found your favorite game:
> 
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/498330/


That's intriguing...just what I need, more ways to waste time.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> That's intriguing...just what I need, more ways to waste time.


Here are a couple kitty games
http://www.quickflashgames.com/games/kittythrow/
http://www.flash-game.net/game/365/cat-a-pult.html

Edit: no kitties were harmed in these games.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Here are a couple kitty games
> http://www.quickflashgames.com/games/kittythrow/
> http://www.flash-game.net/game/365/cat-a-pult.html
> 
> Edit: no kitties were harmed in these games.


You're one sick puppy. And that's what we like about you.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Here are a couple kitty games
> http://www.quickflashgames.com/games/kittythrow/
> http://www.flash-game.net/game/365/cat-a-pult.html
> 
> Edit: no kitties were harmed in these games.


my fans don't purr very loud during those games.


----------



## CorsairGeorge

"Wow, the fan thread really went nuts! I wonder if it's about the ML series? Oh, it's four pages of cat jokes."


----------



## VSG

That's (ML) moved on to their own thread now. Cats are not going anywhere else though.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorsairGeorge*
> 
> "Wow, the fan thread really went nuts! I wonder if it's about the ML series? Oh, it's four pages of cat jokes."


The ML's have caused a disturbance in the force.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> my fans don't purr very loud during those games.


my fans are purrfectly purrforming purritty well.

i think i just scored a tripurr kill!


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> my fans don't purr very loud during those games.
> 
> 
> 
> my fans are purrfectly purrforming purritty well.
> 
> i think i just scored a tripurr kill!
Click to expand...

Actually a quadruple kill. You have five more lives left.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorsairGeorge*
> 
> "Wow, the fan thread really went nuts! I wonder if it's about the ML series? Oh, it's four pages of cat jokes."


You just want us to purrchase more fans.









The current catatonic state of the thread could be from the ML series. But, how will we really know? Unless you send a batch of the 140mm MLs to Cyclops to test. Only then will the all-seeing Cyclops declare if the full ML series really are the cat's meow. Or just another hiss and miss.


----------



## BananaLanderS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> Fair enough. Thank you.


If noise bothers you just wear headphones, they don't even need to be noise canceling. I wear my ASTRO A40s and I can't hear anything even if someone is shouting at me =P


----------



## BananaLanderS

I would still take noctua's over corsair, not that I don't love corsair as I use a lot of their products but for fans it's noctua all the way


----------



## AMDATI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BananaLanderS*
> 
> I would still take noctua's over corsair, not that I don't love corsair as I use a lot of their products but for fans it's noctua all the way


But hey if CorsairGeorge wants to send us all Corsair fans for free.......I won't complain. So whataya say Corsair ol chap.......1000 fan giveaway?







I could really use two good 92mm fans better than these Fractal Design R2's.


----------



## BananaLanderS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMDATI*
> 
> But hey if CorsairGeorge wants to send us all Corsair fans for free.......I won't complain. So whataya say Corsair ol chap.......1000 fan giveaway?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could really use two good 92mm fans better than these Fractal Design R2's.


hey I'm down for that lol


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BananaLanderS*
> 
> If noise bothers you just wear headphones, they don't even need to be noise canceling. I wear my ASTRO A40s and I can't hear anything even if someone is shouting at me =P


Not a chance. My PC is now near inaudible at load or not - using only SSDs and watercooling with EK F1 fans running at 400-600rpm. Best thing I've done.


----------



## BananaLanderS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> Not a chance. My PC is now near inaudible at load or not - using only SSDs and watercooling with EK F1 fans running at 400-600rpm. Best thing I've done.


my mistake, thought you were searching for noise reduction... Still you'll get better performance and airflow with noctuas with the same amount of noise if not less, but double the rpms. Plus if you msg them on Facebook asking for swag they'll send you a mini Keychain fan








I don't think anyone here will disagree with me that noctua is top notch


----------



## epic1337

well, i've yet to see any other fan with a dramatically better noise curve than noctua.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BananaLanderS*
> 
> my mistake, thought you were searching for noise reduction... Still you'll get better performance and airflow with noctuas with the same amount of noise if not less, but double the rpms. Plus if you msg them on Facebook asking for swag they'll send you a mini Keychain fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone here will disagree with me that noctua is top notch


I actually will disagree. I don't like the noise and vibration of Noctuas I've tried.. and when I consulted the test results from thermalbench.com... the EK F1 was more effective in cooling than any of the Noctuas. So in short the EK F1 is cheaper, performs better and looks better. Pretty easy. The only thing I would consider is the Corsair ML as it could reduce the bearing noise. You double rpms suggestion is a whole load of rubbish..


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> I actually will disagree. I don't like the noise and vibration of Noctuas I've tried.. and when I consulted the test results from thermalbench.com... the EK F1 was more effective in cooling than any of the Noctuas. So in short the EK F1 is cheaper, performs better and looks better. Pretty easy. The only thing I would consider is the Corsair ML as it could reduce the bearing noise. You double rpms suggestion is a whole load of rubbish..


I've got to agree with this. While Noctua aren't objectively loud, their sound profile seems very abrasive at higher RPMs. Maybe it's just a personal thing, I don't know.


----------



## rioja

So is NB Eloop best fan among 140 mm? Considering all together: quality, noise, air flow etc


----------



## rioja

Sorry I meant at low speed, 400-800 RPM

I have several EK F1-140 and F2-140 and found them loud, even those EK sent me as replacement of their first batch


----------



## BananaLanderS

I would just like to state i never said noctuas were the very best, all i said is id take them over corsair, as i had corsair fans in my comp prior.. noctuas are what I personally prefer, for me they are quieter than the corsairs i replaced them with but cfm was my main reason for switching at the time. im not denying there are comparable fans out there. as i said if corsair were to offer me some free fans id def take them. in fact out of the 9 fans in my comp presently, two are corsair


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> I actually will disagree. I don't like the noise and vibration of Noctuas I've tried.. and when I consulted the test results from thermalbench.com... the EK F1 was more effective in cooling than any of the Noctuas. So in short the EK F1 is cheaper, performs better and looks better. Pretty easy. The only thing I would consider is the Corsair ML as it could reduce the bearing noise. You double rpms suggestion is a whole load of rubbish..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> I've got to agree with this. While Noctua aren't objectively loud, their sound profile seems very abrasive at higher RPMs. Maybe it's just a personal thing, I don't know.


I agree as well, but only with the iPPC fans, which I find to have a brutally invasive sound signature. I could stand them for only a couple of weeks use - while they weren't loud on the dB scale, they were incredibly irritating at all speeds.

But, I never had any issue with any of the beige lines or Redux.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ciarlatano*
> 
> I agree as well, but only with the iPPC fans, which I find to have a brutally invasive sound signature. I could stand them for only a couple of weeks use - while they weren't loud on the dB scale, they were incredibly irritating at all speeds.
> 
> But, I never had any issue with any of the beige lines or Redux.


The F12's I have are good to about 900 RPM, I think, over that the pitch gets kind of high, I don't know maybe other people can't hear it, but it annoys me. Either way there's barely any difference in temps with RPM on my 3770k, since I'm quite clearly limited by the 212 Evo. B9's are alright, and the pair of fans that came with my D14 I haven't even really used. I can't really remember, but I think I just found them too loud and replaced with a pair of Multiframes. I should probably give them a chance, since I didn't know enough about fans back them, and didn't give them a fair go.

I'm actually kind of curious about that mod replacing the AP181 with four B9's, but apparently someone's too lazy to post some solid data if it cools better with less noise


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Cleaned.

Bored of the back and fourth,it has moved past constructive. Please keep any further discussion to PM should you wish to further debate in this way.


----------



## Cyclops

Alright, folks, back to the cat jokes.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Alright, folks, back to the cat jokes.


Ok, if you say so...

Question: How many cats does it take to install six P12s on a 360 rad in push/pull with the PWM splitter correctly connected?


Spoiler: Answer:



Zero. They have staff for that.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Ok, if you say so...
> 
> Question: How many cats does it take to install six P12s on a 360 rad in push/pull with the PWM splitter correctly connected?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Answer:
> 
> 
> 
> Zero. They have staff for that.


The day when you run out of catnip is the day we can all rest easy







.


----------



## epic1337

i'm not sure if this had been asked before, but is there gonna be any attempt on testing those fans whom are recently released by recent manufacturers?
the PC accessory segment of ID-COOLING for example is formerly founded during computex 2013.


----------



## Cyclops

I don't currently have a plan on reviewing anything new unless I get a review sample.


----------



## doyll

Have you tried the new TY-147A Sq and TY-143 Sq? I'm really curious what your impression of them is.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Have you tried the new TY-147A Sq and TY-143 Sq? I'm really curious what your impression of them is.


Having a single sample is extremely annoying and off putting.


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Having a single sample is extremely annoying and off putting.


Glad someone else feels that way.


----------



## VSG

Hear hear


----------



## doyll

Well, I'm sorry.








But it is what it is.








Hopefully next time they will send pairs of each like the did before.
At least the cat isn't underfoot trying to get some kibble and bits.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ...At least the cat isn't underfoot trying to get some kibble and bits.


Cats never get underfoot. It's humans getting in the way of the cats.


----------



## austinmrs

Im not sure if to buy a Define S or a Enthoo Pro M.

I have a H110iGT. If i buy the Define S, should i put the AIO on the front, with another fan blowing air, so 3 x 140mm on the front and 1 140mm in the back and leave top without fans?

Or should i put the AIO on top with 2 x 140mm exhaust and 3 x 140 intake and 1 bottom exhaust?


----------



## Lucretius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I don't currently have a plan on reviewing anything new unless I get a review sample.


Solution:

Put together a shopping list of fans you want to review (take requests obv).
Post the shopping list here, plus some extra for your time, and lets crowdfund it!


----------



## ciarlatano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> Im not sure if to buy a Define S or a Enthoo Pro M.
> 
> I have a H110iGT. If i buy the Define S, should i put the AIO on the front, with another fan blowing air, so 3 x 140mm on the front and 1 140mm in the back and leave top without fans?
> 
> Or should i put the AIO on top with 2 x 140mm exhaust and 3 x 140 intake and 1 bottom exhaust?


Really off topic. There are plenty of threads about your question, you will likely get better response in one of those. This thread is wholly about fans specifically.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucretius*
> 
> Solution:
> 
> Put together a shopping list of fans you want to review (take requests obv).
> Post the shopping list here, plus some extra for your time, and lets crowdfund it!


I appreciate it but I'm not suppose to earn money from the forums. It's against the terms of service.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I appreciate it but I'm not suppose to earn money from the forums. It's against the terms of service.


I can understand that, but wouldn't it okay to have a wishlist of fans for testing that peeps could use to get fans sent to you to test?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I can understand that, but wouldn't it okay to have a wishlist of fans for testing that peeps could use to get fans sent to you to test?


I've had offers like that before. Almost always they want me to ship the fans back which I don't want to. I've kept every single pair of fans that I've tested for the possibility of further tests so I'm not keen on sending any of them back. As for white listing... it's expensive. A pair of NF-F12s are 50 bucks in Canada + tax and shipping so asking someone to spend that much makes me cringe.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> I've had offers like that before. Almost always they want me to ship the fans back which I don't want to. I've kept every single pair of fans that I've tested for the possibility of further tests so I'm not keen on sending any of them back. As for white listing... it's expensive. A pair of NF-F12s are 50 bucks in Canada + tax and shipping so asking someone to spend that much makes me cringe.


Yeah, I can understand needing to keep fans on hand for followup testing .. and I'm the same way about not wanting people to spend a lot of money supplying me with things to test.


----------



## Melcar

Thinking of changing my case fans, so need suggestions. Current setup is three front Scythe Grand Flex intakes and one Glide Stream 140 side intake. It's alright cooling wise and the fans run quiet (all hooked to CPU PWM signal) and I like the sound signature at full blast (not too intrusive or aggressive). Want to change because why not. Have two options right now:

- Noctua IPPC fans.
- EK Vardar fans

Price/availability wise both options are about the same. The Noctuas I can import from Amazon which has free shipping. The Vardars I would have to import from PPCS and with shipping and all the price difference would be negligible. Been reading some thermalbench and it seems the Vardars are better in both noise and performance as far as the 120mm versions go. So what do you guys suggest?


----------



## VSG

Eh, I actually wouldn't recommend either for case fans. Demciflex filters aside, the airflow restriction you will have these fans up against would be quite low relatively (feel free to correct me) and more airflow optimized fans would serve you better. be quiet! has Silent Wings 3 fans coming up soon that may be what you want if what I heard ends up being the case, and other alternatives would be Noiseblocker eLoops (B12-2/PS) or the Noctua NF-S12B. The Fractal Design HF-12 is fairly decent as well.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> Thinking of changing my case fans, so need suggestions. Current setup is three front Scythe Grand Flex intakes and one Glide Stream 140 side intake. It's alright cooling wise and the fans run quiet (all hooked to CPU PWM signal) and I like the sound signature at full blast (not too intrusive or aggressive). Want to change because why not. Have two options right now:
> 
> - Noctua IPPC fans.
> - EK Vardar fans
> 
> Price/availability wise both options are about the same. The Noctuas I can import from Amazon which has free shipping. The Vardars I would have to import from PPCS and with shipping and all the price difference would be negligible. Been reading some thermalbench and it seems the Vardars are better in both noise and performance as far as the 120mm versions go. So what do you guys suggest?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Eh, I actually wouldn't recommend either for case fans. Demciflex filters aside, the airflow restriction you will have these fans up against would be quite low relatively (feel free to correct me) and more airflow optimized fans would serve you better. be quiet! has Silent Wings 3 fans coming up soon that may be what you want if what I heard ends up being the case, and other alternatives would be Noiseblocker eLoops (B12-2/PS) or the Noctua NF-S12B. The Fractal Design HF-12 is fairly decent as well.


I pretty much agree with geggeg, but usually use higher pressure rated fans than needed because they more much more air at low speed than low pressure rated fans do. Fan airflow is not free air cfm rating or or much pressure is made when air stops moving. It's how much air is flowing with the resistance encountered in our applications. Generally higher pressure fans do a much better job than lower pressure fans. The only possible trade off is some higher pressure fans make more noise.

But why spend money when your system is running cool and quiet? Why not save the money until you have something you need to fix or upgrade?


----------



## epic1337

well this got buried.

i was looking at the fan lists whether cryorig fans are in it, but i guess not.


----------



## Dan-H

What would you recommend to replace four Fractal GP14 ( three intake, one exhaust) with five quieter, slower, better performing 140mm case fans for my Fractal R5 ( daily driver in my sig).

more details:

I'm going to remove the lower drive cage and retire the hard drives so I could go with four intakes no exhaust, or four intakes plus one exhaust.

limitations: MoBo has PWM on the CPU header only. The rest are voltage controlled. I have the fans dialed in with speed fan.

The GP14s are OK, but I think I'll use these in some upcoming builds and use this as a chance to upgrade my system.

What is quieter and moves more air?


----------



## LazarusIV

DP...


----------



## LazarusIV

Check out these fans and this PWM hub. They move a lot of air and are extremely quiet. I hooked these up to the PWM hub with my CPU cooler and its hard to tell my system is turned on. Great fans!

I use three as intake and one as exhaust.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Check out these fans and this PWM hub. They move a lot of air and are extremely quiet. I hooked these up to the PWM hub with my CPU cooler and its hard to tell my system is turned on. Great fans!
> 
> I use three as intake and one as exhaust.


Wow would they work if I used voltage for speed control ( which I think my Gigabyte board has )

I like having the flexibility to have different fans at different speeds set based on different temps.

CPU cooler only looks at the CPU.
Case fans look at the CPU, or GPU and spin up on either one getting hot.

Bottom fan has a different fan curve for the GPU and spins up sooner than the front fans.

I'm pretty happy with this setup right now, just looking maybe for a little quieter when they spin faster.


----------



## doyll

What LazarusIV said.









The PH-F140SP is variable voltage version of PH-F140XP

I have not worked on Define R5, but have onR4 and earlier. Same basic case.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/40_20#post_23754692

I suggest 3x intakes; 2x front and 1x bottom. And raise case so bottom have better airflow. Grill removal from bottom and back lowers noise and improves airflow.


----------



## ozlay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What LazarusIV said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PH-F140SP is variable voltage version of PH-F140XP
> 
> I have not worked on Define R5, but have onR4 and earlier. Same basic case.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/40_20#post_23754692
> 
> I suggest 3x intakes; 2x front and 1x bottom. And raise case so bottom have better airflow. Grill removal from bottom and back lowers noise and improves airflow.


what about the Phanteks PH-F140MP which appears to have less blades?


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What LazarusIV said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PH-F140SP is variable voltage version of PH-F140XP
> 
> I have not worked on Define R5, but have onR4 and earlier. Same basic case.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/40_20#post_23754692
> 
> I suggest 3x intakes; 2x front and 1x bottom. And raise case so bottom have better airflow. Grill removal from bottom and back lowers noise and improves airflow.


Are the PH-F140SP voltage controlled as good as PWM controlled fans? given my constraints it seems like a decent choice.

How much better are the PH-F140SP than the Fractal 140?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> Are the PH-F140SP voltage controlled as good as PWM controlled fans? given my constraints it seems like a decent choice.
> 
> How much better are the PH-F140SP than the Fractal 140?


Any one of them is a good fan for your needs.

Specifications for F140SP and F140XP show performance to be slightly different, but I have used both and did not find a significant difference between them .. except for PH-140SP SP being variable voltage and PH-140XP being PWM. For comparison the PH-F140HP is the same fan design in a round housing. SPCR testing thought it was better than A15 and TY-150, but they also class TY-150 as 140mm and it is not. It is a 150 mm fan
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page1.html
Many of us do not agree with their findings and think the A15 and TY-140 are better.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1394346/silentpcreviews-first-140mm-fan-roundup-phanteks-has-surprising-acoustic-result/0_20

The PH-F140MP has different performance specifications as well, but again in actual use it's not noticable. It is lower airflow rating with higher pressure rating, but with grills and filter creating resistance the P/Q balance to same amount of airflow. Some people say they are not as quiet, but I have not found this to be true. I have not used them as case fans yet, but have tested / used them on PH-TC14PE and TRUE Spirit 140 rev. A and Power coolers and find they perform about the same as TY-14x fans .. which are my all time favorite fan. TY-14x is same basic design and performance as the Noctua NF-A15 PWM / A14 PWM/ FLX/ ULN/ iPPc, etc.at same rpm.

The Phanteks case club might be a good place to ask about the Phaneks fans Lots of experience in that thread.








http://www.overclock.net/t/1418637/official-case-phanteks-case-club-for-lovers-owners/0_20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> Are the PH-F140SP voltage controlled as good as PWM controlled fans? given my constraints it seems like a decent choice.
> 
> How much better are the PH-F140SP than the Fractal 140?


Most is answered above. In my experience the stock Fractal case fans are not up to the task .. and the PH-F140SP works very well. Their ability to overcome resistance is much greater, and this means better airflow at lower RPM, which generally means lower noise levels.


----------



## FRANCOGAMING

my temps


----------



## miklkit

Nice overclock.









But I would politely disagree about the cooler orientation. Front to rear is better than bottom to top air flow.


----------



## doyll

I agree with miklkit. Front to back airflow is better than bottom to top. Less chance of heat air coming out of GPU getting into CPU cooler intake.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I agree with miklkit. Front to back airflow is better than bottom to top. Less chance of heat air coming out of GPU getting into CPU cooler intake.


^ verified. Front to back is best. Remove your unused PCI slot covers, *especially* for an aftermarket cooling solution. Makes a huge difference!


----------



## Vario

Have any of you tried the Yate Loon D14BH-12 140mm fan ? I really love this thing.

These are commonly used on high end power supplies. Its a 4 pin PWM fan but I use it on a fan controller.

Keeps my Mk13 heatsink cooler than the average 2x120mm fans for the same amount of noise and is near silent at low voltage. Its not very loud at full speed compared to San Aces I have owned but it moves a lot more air. It also doesn't seem to require much start up voltage. This model is ball bearing.




You can get them for about $8-12/shipped, make sure to get the 4 wire version.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> Have any of you tried the Yate Loon D14BH-12 140mm fan ? I really love this thing.
> 
> These are commonly used on high end power supplies. Its a 4 pin PWM fan but I use it on a fan controller.
> 
> Keeps my Mk13 heatsink cooler than the average 2x120mm fans for the same amount of noise and is near silent at low voltage. Its not very loud at full speed compared to San Aces I have owned but it moves a lot more air. It also doesn't seem to require much start up voltage. This model is ball bearing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can get them for about $8-12/shipped, make sure to get the 4 wire version.


D14SH-12 was tested a while back. Results are under "Previous test bench results" at post #3.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> D14SH-12 was tested a while back. Results are under "Previous test bench results" at post #3.


Do you think the sleeve is very different from the Ball? I haven't tried the 'S' version. Super impressed with this 'B' variant since its quiet in the most demanding horizontal impeller up position and moves a ton of air.


----------



## Cyclops

I would always go with ball bearings than sleeve.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> Do you think the sleeve is very different from the Ball? I haven't tried the 'S' version. Super impressed with this 'B' variant since its quiet in the most demanding horizontal impeller up position and moves a ton of air.


Ball bearing fans with a single bearing are noisier than other types. Dull ball bearings reduce noise some. Sleeve fans in vertical orientation are quieter for the same CFM at lower RPMs than ball bearing fans for low-restriction scenarios. Basic sleeve fans tend to have low static pressure and the standard sleeve bearing isn't optimal in the horizontal orientation. Of course, blade type makes a difference for static pressure vs. less obstructed airflow. Modified sleeve fans (fluid dynamic bearing, rifle bearing, etc.) generally say they can be used in horizontal orientation and are generally quieter than ball bearing fans. They claim to do a better job of keeping the lubricant properly distributed in horizontal orientation. Ball bearing fans can be damaged from shock/drops while sleeve-type bearings are a lot less prone to such damage. Ball bearing fans tend to emit higher-pitched noise/white noise while sleeve fans have more lower-end rumble.

This is what I've gathered from various professional reviews.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> Ball bearing fans with a single bearing are noisier than other types. Dull ball bearings reduce noise some. Sleeve fans in vertical orientation are quieter for the same CFM at lower RPMs than ball bearing fans for low-restriction scenarios. Basic sleeve fans tend to have low static pressure and the standard sleeve bearing isn't optimal in the horizontal orientation. Of course, blade type makes a difference for static pressure vs. less obstructed airflow. Modified sleeve fans (fluid dynamic bearing, rifle bearing, etc.) generally say they can be used in horizontal orientation and are generally quieter than ball bearing fans. They claim to do a better job of keeping the lubricant properly distributed in horizontal orientation. Ball bearing fans can be damaged from shock/drops while sleeve-type bearings are a lot less prone to such damage. Ball bearing fans tend to emit higher-pitched noise/white noise while sleeve fans have more lower-end rumble.
> 
> This is what I've gathered from various professional reviews.


I agree with most of what you are saying, although the sleeve / rifle / FDB versus ball noise is open to debate. I use lots of both and honestly there is rearely an audible noise differnce from bearings. I have had a few ball bearing fan that were older than dirt that I could hear bearing noise in, but that's an extreme exception to the rule.

Also, I have never seen a fan with a 'single ball bearing'.
For ball bearings to work properly two are required to hold shaft and housing parallel to each other If only a single bearing was used there would be nothing to keep them paralell .. and one would rub on the other.

T


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Also, I have never seen a fan with a 'single ball bearing'.
> For ball bearings to work properly two are required to hold shaft and housing parallel to each other If only a single bearing was used there would be nothing to keep them paralell .. and one would rub on the other.


I read an article that specifically said single bearing ball bearing fans are the loudest type of fan. My understanding is that they have been mainly found in power supplies when it comes to desktop computing.

There are also listings for products that say "single ball bearing".

https://www.amazon.com/Evercool-80x15mm-Single-Bearing-EC8015M12CA/dp/B000B5HSM2
Quote:


> Ball bearing fans are the other popular option. These use small metal balls, usually one or two, to reduce friction in the bearing.


https://www.computerpoweruser.com/article/23365/white-paper-winds-of-change?

I didn't include magnetic fans in my post. Apparently that's another bearing type:
Quote:


> Magnets, How Do They Work
> 
> At last we come to the holy grail of fan bearings, the kind that Corsair has implemented in its ML Series fans: magnetic levitation (or, again, MagLev) bearings. A complete departure from the previously mentioned fan bearings, MagLev bearings rely on creating virtually frictionless electromagnetic torque between the fan's rotor and its stator motor. In principle, the effect is similar to the way a monorail works, but instead of using magnetic levitation to propel a train forward, the MagLev bearings in the ML Series fans use magnetic levitation to spin the fan rotor. In the ML20 Series fans, a metal plate at the base of the fan's stator motor interacts with a permanent magnet in the fan rotor. By spinning the rotor via the electromagnetic field between these two components, MagLev fans can dispense with lubricants and ball bearings, eliminating the key sources of friction within the fan. By stamping out friction, MagLev fans minimize noise and maximize longevity. (Keep in mind that fan noise cause by air turbulence is, of course, still present.)
> 
> MagLev bearings also produce an incredibly stable rotational field. A MagLev fan's rotor has a lower center of gravity compared to a traditional fan. Also, the "pull" from the magnetic plate is applied uniformly across the rotor's surface, which results in remarkably stable fan rotation. Fan orientation isn't a concern with a MagLev bearing, either.


Some review sites has said Corsair has done a "huge amount of R&D" for these fans but others say they're using SUNON as their OEM:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thermal Bench*
> I am confident enough to say outright that Corsair is working with SUNON on these fans, and this is a very good thing. SUNON is a brand of the Sunonwealth Electric Machine Industry Company Ltd founded in 1980 and has since been a reputable player in the AC/DC fan + motor market. Their MagLev technology has been in the works since 2004 with multiple publications in international research journals, so props to Corsair for going with a good OEM to base their products on. Sunon is also one of the (sadly) few companies who operates a certified sound lab


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> I read an article that specifically said single bearing ball bearing fans are the loudest type of fan. My understanding is that they have been mainly found in power supplies when it comes to desktop computing.
> 
> There are also listings for products that say "single ball bearing".
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Evercool-80x15mm-Single-Bearing-EC8015M12CA/dp/B000B5HSM2
> https://www.computerpoweruser.com/article/23365/white-paper-winds-of-change?


I stand by my statement about single ball bearing for the reasons I explained. You can choose to believe what you read on the web or in a book as being truth if you want. But just because someone posts something or it gets published in a book does not make it true.

Using a promotional article about a new fan using maglev bearing is a good example of what not to believe. If you want accurate information look for technical sources. Advertisements are the some of the worst sources of information.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I stand by my statement about single ball bearing for the reasons I explained. You can choose to believe what you read on the web or in a book as being truth if you want. But just because someone posts something or it gets published in a book does not make it true.


I guess there are lots of people who are totally deluded about ball bearing fans. I guess you'll have to educate the pros.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Using a promotional article about a new fan using maglev bearing is a good example of what not to believe. If you want accurate information look for technical sources. Advertisements are the some of the worst sources of information.


Ad hominem against that particular source doesn't change the apparent fact that magnetic bearings exist and thus are a different type of bearing than the ones I covered in my post - the very thing my second post said.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> I guess there are lots of people who are totally deluded about ball bearing fans. I guess you'll have to educate the pros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ad hominem against that particular source doesn't change the apparent fact that magnetic bearings exist and thus are a different type of bearing than the ones I covered in my post - the very thing my second post said.


It is obvious who the 'deluded' one is. I said, promotional information is often not accurate genreally not accurate. It's advertising, not scientific. And even scientific data is often scewed to support the source's hypothesis.

I never said anything for or against maglev bearings. .. although they have inner/outer support surfaces (bearings) to hold them in place when off and starting / stopping. I only stated a single ball bearing will not support a fan .. fan will wobble at low speed and flop over like a top when it stops.


----------



## epic1337

honestly the performance between sleeve, ball, fluid, maglev bearings are minuscule on an application such as case fans.
since these fans lack weight (load pressure) and are moderately low RPM (~3K RPM), which are the main consideration of friction coefficient.
technically the only benefit you'd get is the different noise profiles between these things.

and on that note, ball bearings were intended for broad RPM range and _heavy_ load applications, with these case fans that weights in grams... well you can get the idea.

in my opinion though, they should go for a teflon (PTFE) bush bearing, technically a composite bearing, its got one of the best cost-to-performance among the bearing types.
and the best part of teflon bush bearing is that it has no shelf-life and needs next to no maintenance, which is often a problem with ball bearings (corrosion) and fluid bearings (drying).


----------



## miklkit

I'm still trying to wrap my alleged mind around the concept of a ball bearing with only one ball. As I see it they would need three balls at a minimum just to keep the shaft properly centered.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> I'm still trying to wrap my alleged mind around the concept of a ball bearing with only one ball. As I see it they would need three balls at a minimum just to keep the shaft properly centered.


LOL
And two of these 3x balls bearings on a shaft to keep it from wobbling like a top.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> I'm still trying to wrap my alleged mind around the concept of a ball bearing with only one ball. As I see it they would need three balls at a minimum just to keep the shaft properly centered.


Maybe if the words were in a different order. "Single-Bearing"; Ball. Does that make more sense?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



( hint. There is more than one ball in a "single ball bearing" )


----------



## Cyclops

Can you pass me the ball please? I've lost my bearings.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Can you pass me the ball please? I've lost my bearings.


That's one way to spin it.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> That's one way to spin it.


Yes, but can you run a motor on a single bearing with only one ring of balls in it?


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> That's one way to spin it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but can you run a motor on a single bearing with only one ring of balls in it?
Click to expand...

Of course you can, if the bearing is large enough. All single row ball bearings are able to take some thrust from all directions. As long as the bearing diameter is large enough in diameter compared to the width of motor itself. Of course, 120-140mm fan would work better if the bearing was large enough for the fan blades to go inside the bearing and the center magnets floated around the coils in the center. However, the more balls would result in increased friction. I can see it being doable but not being practical. The other option would be to use a large bearing in the center but that wouldn't leave much room for the fan.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Of course you can, if the bearing is large enough. All single row ball bearings are able to take some thrust from all directions. As long as the bearing diameter is large enough in diameter compared to the width of motor itself. Of course, 120-140mm fan would work better if the bearing was large enough for the fan blades to go inside the bearing and the center magnets floated around the coils in the center. However, the more balls would result in increased friction. I can see it being doable but not being practical. The other option would be to use a large bearing in the center but that wouldn't leave much room for the fan.


What would keep it from flopping around like top when starting and stopping?


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Of course you can, if the bearing is large enough. All single row ball bearings are able to take some thrust from all directions. As long as the bearing diameter is large enough in diameter compared to the width of motor itself. Of course, 120-140mm fan would work better if the bearing was large enough for the fan blades to go inside the bearing and the center magnets floated around the coils in the center. However, the more balls would result in increased friction. I can see it being doable but not being practical. The other option would be to use a large bearing in the center but that wouldn't leave much room for the fan.
> 
> 
> 
> What would keep it from flopping around like top when starting and stopping?
Click to expand...

Again, if (a big if, mind you) the bearing was large enough, it would be able to withstand the forces that would cause the flopping, both if the baring was wrapped around the perimeter of the fan blades or it was in the hub. I'm not saying it would be practical for a computer fan but it could be done. Some fans designed for room air circulation have the bearings and motor wrapped around the blades themselves.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Again, if (a big if, mind you) the bearing was large enough, it would be able to withstand the forces that would cause the flopping, both if the baring was wrapped around the perimeter of the fan blades or it was in the hub. I'm not saying it would be practical for a computer fan but it could be done. Some fans designed for room air circulation have the bearings and motor wrapped around the blades themselves.


It would be so heavy with so much friction resistance a 'normal' computer fan motor would burn out trying to get it started .. or the case would tip over from the extreme weight on one side.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Again, if (a big if, mind you) the bearing was large enough, it would be able to withstand the forces that would cause the flopping, both if the baring was wrapped around the perimeter of the fan blades or it was in the hub. I'm not saying it would be practical for a computer fan but it could be done. Some fans designed for room air circulation have the bearings and motor wrapped around the blades themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be so heavy with so much friction resistance a 'normal' computer fan motor would burn out trying to get it started .. or the case would tip over from the extreme weight on one side.
Click to expand...

I did say that friction would be increased and that it wouldn't be practical.


----------



## miklkit

"Ball bearing fans are the other popular option. These use small metal balls, usually one or two, to reduce friction in the bearing."

This is what I saw that got me confused. It still leaves me confused.

I have seen hubs from an old 1950s truck that had one ball bearing in them. They wore out fast and couldn't take much side load at all. I have also seen hubs that had one ball bearing and one roller bearing.

Lessee, if I was to make a single ball bearing fan...........The shaft would have to be solidly mounted and the balls would have to be caged to keep them from falling out. That might work. But still, the bigger the better.

As for noise I currently have some ball bearing fans and some sleeve bearing fans and can not tell which is which from listening to them. The Silverstone FHP-141 140x38 2 ball bearing fans do make a noise similar to a chain and sprocket at low rpms but it is not loud.


----------



## epic1337

hey guys i have a question, which 120mm fans would work great with 5V input? typically it would have a <5V starting voltage.


----------



## doyll

@miklkit what 1950s truck? This 'hub', was it a wheel hub with only one bearing in it rather than the normal axle with bearing on both sides of hub? Just curious.
Ridged rear drive axles in light duty vehicles (cars and light load vans / pickups have singe bearing at the wheels on axle shaft, but the shaft goes from wheel all the way to center of vehicle and into the differential which has bearings on both sides .. so effectively the axle has two bearings, one on each end.

Yeah, I have a few ball bearing fans that the bearing can be heard .. almost a rushing kind of sound similar to a almost silent chain on sprocket. But I havent' noticed it in my 2x FHP-141 fans. it may have to do with run time / wear creating more clearance. I have a very old TY-143 that if I put my ear right up to hub I think I can hear the bearing rush.

@epic1337
Hardware.FR tested 63 120mm fans and their startup voltage.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/874-1/comparatif-63-ventilateurs-120mm-dc.html

CoolingTechnique also give voltage to 4pm, not sure if they give startup voltage
http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/ventole.html


----------



## epic1337

thanks.

and contrary to what i expected, the fans i already have (xigmatek XOF and XAF fans) has one of the better CFM @ 5volts.
i already find these fans acceptably quiet at 12volts, so the noise at 5volts should be negligible.


----------



## miklkit

@doyll It was the front axle of a 1952 Chevrolet 1 ton truck. There was just the one huge caged bearing and wobbles happened. You know how Chevrolet is though. Their 1 ton is everyone else's 1/2 ton.

My FHP-141 fans from 2013 started off noisy and got quieter over time. After a couple of years they could hardly be heard.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> @doyll It was the front axle of a 1952 Chevrolet 1 ton truck. There was just the one huge caged bearing and wobbles happened. You know how Chevrolet is though. Their 1 ton is everyone else's 1/2 ton.
> 
> My FHP-141 fans from 2013 started off noisy and got quieter over time. After a couple of years they could hardly be heard.


Maybe excess oil, dirt/dust in bearing, or poorly seated bearing that wore in. Pretty good deal that they got quieter and not louder, all the loud fans I have got louder over time.

I ordered another cheap Yate Loon D14BH12 for my HR02 heatsink, should be a _blast_


----------



## Speedster159

Sickleflow X or SP120 LED for Restrictive intake between the front and drive cages?


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Speedster159*
> 
> Sickleflow X or SP120 LED for Restrictive intake between the front and drive cages?


Could try these SP120L , seller took an offer of $4 for me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262372849390

I am using one in my very restrictive PC A05 front spot as intake and it works well, use fan control to get the speed down so its not loud. I've owned a few of these, taking the sticker off the impeller's center seems to improve noise slightly.


----------



## paskowitz

A GT, eLoop, NF-A14, ML, PH-F120SP, etc at 1200rpm would be more than 2-3c vs an airflow fan. Comparing a garbage fan to a slightly less garbage fan isn't helpful.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

There's so much wrong with how he does his comparisons, but then I remember he has a family and a life, meaning hardly any time left to build a proper test box to fit with a properly thick radiator with all of the necessary sensors, and do proper testing. The solution should be for him to have a go-to tester with all that stuff, but I'm not sure if he knows one.


----------



## paskowitz

Also, quick question. I have Noctua NF-A14 fans on my radiators (2000rpm and 3000rpm). I know, I know... at least I put gaskets on them so they don't leak air. Right now, 2 of my 3000rpm ones are making a buzzing noise. Does this mean the motor is dying or is that just what happens to these fans after a while? Worth attempting and RMA through Noctua?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Problem is too many users don't know enough to know when these videos are total garbage.


The reality of the "Internet Phenomenon" where every so-called EXPERT starts sprouting his form of understanding when conducting a review. We are all more diminished with all these useless 'reviews' that don't actually say anything other than to "PLEASE buy me".

Only watch these reviews to laugh and chortle on my mid-morning coffee.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> The reality of the "Internet Phenomenon" where every so-called EXPERT starts sprouting his form of understanding when conducting a review. We are all more diminished with all these useless 'reviews' that don't actually say anything other than to "PLEASE buy me".
> 
> Only watch these reviews to laugh and chortle on my mid-morning coffee.


Indeed.
Or more like "please look at my website / YouTube" to improve the number of hits they get. Sadly search engines give us lists based on website hits, not how how relevant the site is to our search criteria .. or how accurate site information is.









Regrettably t he internet is now the world's greatest source of miss-information for the uninformed. Very few users know enough to dig deep enough to find the truth.


----------



## epic1337

i blame the social media sites, specially those that promotes "share this" nonsense.


----------



## Cyclops

Stop derailing this thread please. Silly political arguments don't belong in here.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Stop derailing this thread please. Silly political arguments don't belong in here.


This. No politics anywhere on this site except if it's in compliance with the specific section of the news guidelines. Those specifics about politics apply to the whole site, but it tends to be a much bigger issue in news than elsewhere, so it was put in those guidelines.


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskowitz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A GT, eLoop, NF-A14, ML, PH-F120SP, etc at 1200rpm would be more than 2-3c vs an airflow fan. Comparing a garbage fan to a slightly less garbage fan isn't helpful.


Last time I checked the Corsair fans aren't junk, they may not be up to the Spec of a Noctua fan, but there certainly far from junk. Besides he even says in the vid there is more testing he can do and he will probably do at some point in the future.

I actually respect him and Linus for that matter, there some of the better Tech Youtubers if you ask me.


----------



## paskowitz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Last time I checked the Corsair fans aren't junk, they may not be up to the Spec of a Noctua fan, but there certainly far from junk. Besides he even says in the vid there is more testing he can do and he will probably do at some point in the future.
> 
> I actually respect him and Linus for that matter, there some of the better Tech Youtubers if you ask me.


I mean, Jay does know a lot more than your average tech YouTuber... but he often frames his advice poorly. My problem is he takes a comparison between two mediocre fans (which don't represent the average of their respective categories) and then makes an encompassing recommendation for AF is ok vs SP fans on rads. Considering the nature of his audience, he has a responsibility to give them complete and researched information... because they will take what he says as complete.


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskowitz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Last time I checked the Corsair fans aren't junk, they may not be up to the Spec of a Noctua fan, but there certainly far from junk. Besides he even says in the vid there is more testing he can do and he will probably do at some point in the future.
> 
> I actually respect him and Linus for that matter, there some of the better Tech Youtubers if you ask me.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, Jay does know a lot more than your average tech YouTuber... but he often frames his advice poorly. My problem is he takes a comparison between two mediocre fans (which don't represent the average of their respective categories) and then makes an encompassing recommendation for AF is ok vs SP fans on rads. Considering the nature of his audience, he has a responsibility to give them complete and researched information... because they will take what he says as complete.
Click to expand...

Well now I can understand what you were getting at, thank you for calmly explaining that.

I still think his tl;dr point still stands though, you should get a Static Pressure fan for Rads and a Air Flow one for the case. Maybe not Corsair fans, but just a good SP fan.

But yes he could of went more in depth and I'm not sure why he didn't. But I am the type to take his advice, but still do some research myself, cuz i am a Good PC Enthusiast, but I can also see some people will just assume those fans are all there is, which concerns me.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Well now I can understand what you were getting at, thank you for calmly explaining that.
> 
> I still think his tl;dr point still stands though, you should get a Static Pressure fan for Rads and a Air Flow one for the case. Maybe not Corsair fans, but just a good SP fan.
> 
> But yes he could of went more in depth and I'm not sure why he didn't. But I am the type to take his advice, but still do some research myself, cuz i am a Good PC Enthusiast, but I can also see some people will just assume those fans are all there is, which concerns me.


You don't seem to understand how airflow works.

For fans to move air they must have both pressure differential and volume of flow.

The process of airflow is simply displacement of air .. take some out of a space and more flows in to replace it and balance density/pressure .. or .. push more into a space and an equal amount flows out to balance density/pressure.

*How airflow works*
*Airflow is simply displacement; for air to come into case, air must be leaving case .. or .. for air to leave the case, air must be coming into case.*
Think of the air around us as water and we are divers in it and a sunken van is a computer case.

We can't put more water into the van (case) through an open window (vent) unless we have another open window (vent) somewhere else in the van (case .. the amount of water (air) flowing through window is same amount as is flowing out the other window.
We can't take any water out of van unless we have water coming in other window at the same time.
This is exactly how airflow works. Intake fan pushing / flowing air into case is pushing / flowing the same amount of air out of case.
Adding an exhaust fan can help case airflow, same as adding a back fan on some coolers.
But with good case intake fans we don't need exhaust fans, same as good cooler / radiator fans don't need pull fans.








This is why I used to always change stock intake fans. Now some cases are finally coming with intake fans that have high enough pressure ratings to not need 'helper' (exhaust) fans.








http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22319249


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> I actually respect him and Linus for that matter, there some of the better Tech Youtubers if you ask me.


I don't really trust Linus' opinion on fans since it tends to amount to "You're sick in the head if you're using anything not made by Corsair or Noctua", though in polite marketing speak.


----------



## doyll

Key words are 'marketing voice.' They are both just talking heads for the market industry. To them components are only parts of their media world, They don't care about doing unbiased and/or accurate evaluations .. or stating accurate information. To them it's all about popularity numbers for them and their sources .. and only for their sources because they depend on free product to talk about. There are many others like them, but

we need quit hijacking Cyclops fan thread.


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Well now I can understand what you were getting at, thank you for calmly explaining that.
> 
> I still think his tl;dr point still stands though, you should get a Static Pressure fan for Rads and a Air Flow one for the case. Maybe not Corsair fans, but just a good SP fan.
> 
> But yes he could of went more in depth and I'm not sure why he didn't. But I am the type to take his advice, but still do some research myself, cuz i am a Good PC Enthusiast, but I can also see some people will just assume those fans are all there is, which concerns me.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to understand how airflow works.
> 
> For fans to move air they must have both pressure differential and volume of flow.
> 
> The process of airflow is simply displacement of air .. take some out of a space and more flows in to replace it and balance density/pressure .. or .. push more into a space and an equal amount flows out to balance density/pressure.
> 
> *How airflow works*
> *Airflow is simply displacement; for air to come into case, air must be leaving case .. or .. for air to leave the case, air must be coming into case.*
> Think of the air around us as water and we are divers in it and a sunken van is a computer case.
> 
> We can't put more water into the van (case) through an open window (vent) unless we have another open window (vent) somewhere else in the van (case .. the amount of water (air) flowing through window is same amount as is flowing out the other window.
> We can't take any water out of van unless we have water coming in other window at the same time.
> This is exactly how airflow works. Intake fan pushing / flowing air into case is pushing / flowing the same amount of air out of case.
> Adding an exhaust fan can help case airflow, same as adding a back fan on some coolers.
> But with good case intake fans we don't need exhaust fans, same as good cooler / radiator fans don't need pull fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I used to always change stock intake fans. Now some cases are finally coming with intake fans that have high enough pressure ratings to not need 'helper' (exhaust) fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/0_20#post_22319249
Click to expand...

Actually I do understand, in order to push through a Rad, i would prefer SP fans. A good brand of ones, not just Noctua or Corsair, Yate Loons and Typhoons are good too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> I actually respect him and Linus for that matter, there some of the better Tech Youtubers if you ask me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really trust Linus' opinion on fans since it tends to amount to "You're sick in the head if you're using anything not made by Corsair or Noctua", though in polite marketing speak.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but you are pretty correct. I won't say ALL of his words are tied to financial gain, but again, you have to use both Linus's and Jay's words as a beginning point and do your own research on actually tests that have been done to determine the proper fan for your application.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Key words are 'marketing voice.' They are both just talking heads for the market industry. To them components are only parts of their media world, They don't care about doing unbiased and/or accurate evaluations .. or stating accurate information. To them it's all about popularity numbers for them and their sources .. and only for their sources because they depend on free product to talk about. There are many others like them, but
> 
> we need quit hijacking Cyclops fan thread.


Well to address your last statement, we Are discussing fan related subjects, or ones ability to offer up fan info.

To address the other part, I can agree like above that they both usually test with parts that are giving to them, so they don't usually talk bad about them, but Jay and Linus both have gave some of there sponsors cRaP, Jay with his Cooling Fluid for example and Linus with the Nvida shill.

But again, back on fans. While Corsair and Noctua fans Should Never be your only options, their not bad if your looking for a poo brown or changeable color ring build.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Actually I do understand, in order to push through a Rad, i would prefer SP fans. A good brand of ones, not just Noctua or Corsair, Yate Loons and Typhoons are good too.
> I hate to say it, but you are pretty correct. I won't say ALL of his words are tied to financial gain, but again, you have to use both Linus's and Jay's words as a beginning point and do your own research on actually tests that have been done to determine the proper fan for your application.
> Well to address your last statement, we Are discussing fan related subjects, or ones ability to offer up fan info.
> 
> To address the other part, I can agree like above that they both usually test with parts that are giving to them, so they don't usually talk bad about them, but Jay and Linus both have gave some of there sponsors cRaP, Jay with his Cooling Fluid for example and Linus with the Nvida shill.
> 
> But again, back on fans. While Corsair and Noctua fans Should Never be your only options, their not bad if your looking for a poo brown or changeable color ring build.


I like the 'pretty' part.








Most of us do not consider fans with sailboat logo to be 'good fans'. Fact is most of us do not even consider them acceptable fans.







Their advertising department do a good job of pulling the wool over the eyes of the newbies and uninformed.

They leave too much out and insinuate lots of things that are definitely not true. Sometimes they do it as a joke, but most who view their videos assume they are telling the truth .. and these talking heads know this. Even talking heads hve enough IQ points to know people are believing what they say.









Sure, if something is that blatantly bad they can't very well support it. If they did they would loose 'credibility' (like they have any) with even the least educated of their computer newbies.









I'll agree corsail should probably not be considered, but Noctua fans are good .. and it's not 'poo brown', it's 'desert camo'.


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Actually I do understand, in order to push through a Rad, i would prefer SP fans. A good brand of ones, not just Noctua or Corsair, Yate Loons and Typhoons are good too.
> I hate to say it, but you are pretty correct. I won't say ALL of his words are tied to financial gain, but again, you have to use both Linus's and Jay's words as a beginning point and do your own research on actually tests that have been done to determine the proper fan for your application.
> Well to address your last statement, we Are discussing fan related subjects, or ones ability to offer up fan info.
> 
> To address the other part, I can agree like above that they both usually test with parts that are giving to them, so they don't usually talk bad about them, but Jay and Linus both have gave some of there sponsors cRaP, Jay with his Cooling Fluid for example and Linus with the Nvida shill.
> 
> But again, back on fans. While Corsair and Noctua fans Should Never be your only options, their not bad if your looking for a poo brown or changeable color ring build.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the 'pretty' part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of us do not consider fans with sailboat logo to be 'good fans'. Fact is most of us do not even consider them acceptable fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their advertising department do a good job of pulling the wool over the eyes of the newbies and uninformed.
> 
> They leave too much out and insinuate lots of things that are definitely not true. Sometimes they do it as a joke, but most who view their videos assume they are telling the truth .. and these talking heads know this. Even talking heads hve enough IQ points to know people are believing what they say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, if something is that blatantly bad they can't very well support it. If they did they would loose 'credibility' (like they have any) with even the least educated of their computer newbies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll agree corsail should probably not be considered, but Noctua fans are good .. and it's not 'poo brown', it's 'desert camo'.
Click to expand...

I figured you would sir.









I would say they are "good fans" I have had several Cooler Master fans for example and One Noctua fan just stop working, never had a Corsair fan die yet, and I run them Hard on my H100i. 2 120mm fans are $20, a new i7 is $400.

But again, you are correct, there is better out there for around $20-$40 if your willing to spend that much on fans.

They are poo brown, far from camo...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> I figured you would sir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say they are "good fans" I have had several Cooler Master fans for example and One Noctua fan just stop working, never had a Corsair fan die yet, and I run them Hard on my H100i. 2 120mm fans are $20, a new i7 is $400.
> 
> But again, you are correct, there is better out there for around $20-$40 if your willing to spend that much on fans.
> 
> They are poo brown, far from camo...


Maybe how over hyped corsail is part of my reason to dislike them. I have little experience with CM but Noctua stopping is a rare thing. They have 6 year warranty and great customer support. Did you report it to them?


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> I figured you would sir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say they are "good fans" I have had several Cooler Master fans for example and One Noctua fan just stop working, never had a Corsair fan die yet, and I run them Hard on my H100i. 2 120mm fans are $20, a new i7 is $400.
> 
> But again, you are correct, there is better out there for around $20-$40 if your willing to spend that much on fans.
> 
> They are poo brown, far from camo...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe how over hyped corsail is part of my reason to dislike them. I have little experience with CM but Noctua stopping is a rare thing. They have 6 year warranty and great customer support. Did you report it to them?
Click to expand...

Oh so your more like Corsair is a big PSU company for example, and should produce the best for the money, then they come out with the CX series... I get what you mean. Yes the SP Noctua fans are better than the SP Corsair, there are benchmarks of both on the same Rad and Noctua is better, but they cost twice as much (sometimes, depending on where you buy and model) than the Corsair fans, but only do about 1.5x better cooling. So it's preference kinda.

Well i got the Noctua fan out of a junked PC, so God knows what it went though. But adding to that, that PC also had a CM fan that lasted a few months after the Noctua, but the CM could of been a newer fan, i honestly don't know, but i love Free stuff lol


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Oh so your more like Corsair is a big PSU company for example, and should produce the best for the money, then they come out with the CX series... I get what you mean. Yes the SP Noctua fans are better than the SP Corsair, there are benchmarks of both on the same Rad and Noctua is better, but they cost twice as much (sometimes, depending on where you buy and model) than the Corsair fans, but only do about 1.5x better cooling. So it's preference kinda.
> 
> Well i got the Noctua fan out of a junked PC, so God knows what it went though. But adding to that, that PC also had a CM fan that lasted a few months after the Noctua, but the CM could of been a newer fan, i honestly don't know, but i love Free stuff lol


Oh so your more an "either or" with only corsail andNoctua as an options?








corsail make very little of what they sell.
Their claim to fame is being masters of re-labeling with their logo products made for them by other real OEM sources.
'Static Pressure' and 'Air Flow' are only names .. and their ratings in specifications mean little or nothing when applied to use in computers..
Static pressure rating = pressure when fan stops moving air. I will never use a fan in that scenario becuase .. well .. it makes lots of noise and move no air.
Ariflow rating = amount of airflow with nothing restricting it .. like a home room fan or ceiling fan. While I can see how a fan sold for computer use may be used like a room fan, it is an application not applicable to computer use.

Availability and price vary dramatically depending on where you are on our big blue marble. For example in Canada sailboat logo, Noctua, &Phanteks are similar prices, with Arctic Cooling being a little lower.
Sorry, but saying brand 'x' has 1.5x better cooling than brand 'y' is .. well .. not that simple and makes no sense at all. Both brands have many different fan with many different ratings. Any comparison has to be between specific models of fans, to between brands.

Free is best!








I used to 'scrounge' (some call it recycling) all kinds of things, including fans.


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Oh so your more like Corsair is a big PSU company for example, and should produce the best for the money, then they come out with the CX series... I get what you mean. Yes the SP Noctua fans are better than the SP Corsair, there are benchmarks of both on the same Rad and Noctua is better, but they cost twice as much (sometimes, depending on where you buy and model) than the Corsair fans, but only do about 1.5x better cooling. So it's preference kinda.
> 
> Well i got the Noctua fan out of a junked PC, so God knows what it went though. But adding to that, that PC also had a CM fan that lasted a few months after the Noctua, but the CM could of been a newer fan, i honestly don't know, but i love Free stuff lol
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so your more an "either or" with only corsail andNoctua as an options?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> corsail make very little of what they sell.
> Their claim to fame is being masters of re-labeling with their logo products made for them by other real OEM sources.
> 'Static Pressure' and 'Air Flow' are only names .. and their ratings in specifications mean little or nothing when applied to use in computers..
> Static pressure rating = pressure when fan stops moving air. I will never use a fan in that scenario becuase .. well .. it makes lots of noise and move no air.
> Ariflow rating = amount of airflow with nothing restricting it .. like a home room fan or ceiling fan. While I can see how a fan sold for computer use may be used like a room fan, it is an application not applicable to computer use.
> 
> Availability and price vary dramatically depending on where you are on our big blue marble. For example in Canada sailboat logo, Noctua, &Phanteks are similar prices, with Arctic Cooling being a little lower.
> Sorry, but saying brand 'x' has 1.5x better cooling than brand 'y' is .. well .. not that simple and makes no sense at all. Both brands have many different fan with many different ratings. Any comparison has to be between specific models of fans, to between brands.
> 
> Free is best!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to 'scrounge' (some call it recycling) all kinds of things, including fans.
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Any chance of doing a test run in comparison to the rest for the CoolerMaster JetFlo 120mm?


----------



## Dan-H

@killeraxemannic and @Dan-H have both noticed fan clicking of Fractal GP14 fans in this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/838683/official-fractal-design-case-club/15120_30#post_25722057

killeraxmannic's fans click both on Mobo headers and the system fan controller. Mine only click when on the MoBo but I have less than an hour of run time on the new systems.

Do fans have a break in period? Should I just run them full speed for an hour or two and see if they settle in?

Does anyone know if there have been changes to the Fractal GP14 fans in the past 14-15 months? I have an older R5 and four GP14 fans and they spin down to run very slowly, and I have never heard them tick. they don't tick ever.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> @killeraxemannic and @Dan-H have both noticed fan clicking of Fractal GP14 fans in this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/838683/official-fractal-design-case-club/15120_30#post_25722057
> 
> killeraxmannic's fans click both on Mobo headers and the system fan controller. Mine only click when on the MoBo but I have less than an hour of run time on the new systems.
> 
> Do fans have a break in period? Should I just run them full speed for an hour or two and see if they settle in?
> 
> Does anyone know if there have been changes to the Fractal GP14 fans in the past 14-15 months? I have an older R5 and four GP14 fans and they spin down to run very slowly, and I have never heard them tick. they don't tick ever.


Fans would have a run-in period, but not under the scenario you mention:

High quality fans would be run-in by the manufacturer prior to release onto retail channels. Run-in would be done to ensure QC and acceptable manufacturing tolerances. You would be less likely to get such testing on entry level PC fans.

The clicking noise is likely not an issue that can be solved via run-in. That sounds more like a defect to me, or a design flaw. For instance, some PWM fans may click in response to changes in PWM signal, while others may click due to rubbing between internal motor/hub components.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> @killeraxemannic and @Dan-H have both noticed fan clicking of Fractal GP14 fans in this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/838683/official-fractal-design-case-club/15120_30#post_25722057
> 
> killeraxmannic's fans click both on Mobo headers and the system fan controller. Mine only click when on the MoBo but I have less than an hour of run time on the new systems.
> 
> Do fans have a break in period? Should I just run them full speed for an hour or two and see if they settle in?
> 
> Does anyone know if there have been changes to the Fractal GP14 fans in the past 14-15 months? I have an older R5 and four GP14 fans and they spin down to run very slowly, and I have never heard them tick. they don't tick ever.


I have used / tested hundreds of fans and even compared 3 year old fans in 24/7 use against new out of box and find no significant difference in performance. noise, etc. Sure, there is some difference, but it's not because they are new, but because of factory tolerances. I often test 2-5 of same fan at a time . not all are ever the same, close enough for fan work.







Occasionally there is a little 'break in' of a few minutes but that's about it.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Fans would have a run-in period, but not under the scenario you mention:
> 
> High quality fans would be run-in by the manufacturer prior to release onto retail channels. Run-in would be done to ensure QC and acceptable manufacturing tolerances. You would be less likely to get such testing on entry level PC fans.
> 
> The clicking noise is likely not an issue that can be solved via run-in. That sounds more like a defect to me, or a design flaw. For instance, some PWM fans may click in response to changes in PWM signal, while others may click due to rubbing between internal motor/hub components.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I have used / tested hundreds of fans and even compared 3 year old fans in 24/7 use against new out of box and find no significant difference in performance. noise, etc. Sure, there is some difference, but it's not because they are new, but because of factory tolerances. I often test 2-5 of same fan at a time . not all are ever the same, close enough for fan work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occasionally there is a little 'break in' of a few minutes but that's about it.


Thanks for the replies.

I have not had much time to dig into this. My plan is to experiment with the new fans in my system and the older fans in the newer systems and see if the clicking follows the fans or if it is related to the MoBo.

I'll also double check the fan settings in BIOS. I've yet to install the OS so that needs to happen too.

I'll report back what I find, but I appreciate the comments so far.


----------



## Xaeos

Not sure if I should post here or make a new post, but I figure this may be as good a place as any. I've perused a few recent pages but obviously not the hundreds in the complete thread, seeking the most up to date information.

I recently just purchased a CaseLabs Mercury S8 which will host my "new/old" Haswell-E build. CaseLabs cases, for all their awesomeness, don't come with fans with the expectation you'll buy your own as you need them, so I'm trying to out how to configure for airflow but in order to do that I need to know what fans to purchase! My fan purchasing experience is a bit out of date, back when Scythe S-Flex and Cougar Vortex were all the rage and whatnot.

Overall, I value both aspects of performance and quiet (ie I don't want either those jet engine Deltas from a few years back, nor some really quiet kit that doesn't do very well for static pressure or airflow), but will come down on the performance side; ultimately, the best fans should be able to provide a good mix of both. Generally I'm thinking of 120mm being my standard sizing as most of the case mounts seem to be for them. I prefer aesthetically pleasing fans (ie most nice premium fans I see recommended are nice looking) but it is a secondary concern. LEDs are neat, especially some of the new RGB LED fans (ie Corsairs' latest lineup), but if they're not most suitable (or close to it) I won't go out of my way for them. I'm to understand the PWM is the most viable control option, be they connected directly to the motherboard (Rampage V Edition 10) or other fan controllers and that most higher end fans include it. I should mention I plan to use DEMCiflex Filters in my case as well, but I'm to understand they have a relatively low effect on airflow/pressure for their benefit; a reason why I'm told they're among the best filters around.

. I'm mostly looking for case fans for the moment, but I'll also have a radiator. My CPU cooler will likely be a Swiftech H320 X2 Prestige to start and will come with Noiseblocker ELoop included. However, I am willing to upgrade these if there is a better set of fans. Should I stick with these, or is there a better alternative?

The main query I have is regarding the case fans themselves. What brands and models are worthwhile given what I mentioned above? I've looked into Corsair (including their MagLev Pro models and both their HD and SP models, including the RGB LED variant. ), Scythe ( Gentle Typhoon? Grand Flex?) , Cougar (Vortex?), Noctua (Not sure which models...but I guess most come in that..unfortunate color scheme hm?), and perhaps others (EU companies?). I know that mag-lev bearings are now present and seem to be well regarded but I don't know how they stack up to the other "advanced" bearing styles in truth. Perhaps I'm missing some other offerings as well?

Thanks!
So anyone ab


----------



## MicroCat

The NB eLoops are very good for the performance vs noise. Not my fav 120mm rad fan, but I'm GT-biased. Nidec still makes GTs, Scythe is no longer distributing them, however.

For case fans, since it's yuuuge case, would look at the top tier 140mm fans for intake, for lower noise at the same airflow than 120mm options. Suggest medium static pressure fans, since the Demciflex are fairly restrictive - they're great filters, use them on a couple rigs, but they drop airflow by 20-25% ime.

If your case only supports 120mm fan mounts, the Thermalright 147a 140mm and Noctua A15 140mm have 120mm mounting. The sonic and performance benefit of 140mm fans with the convenience of 120mm fan spacing.

But, if 120mm fans are your first choice, more eLoops or GTs, or if you want the bling, Corsair ML120 led versions. The ML120 are the only Corsair fan I'd consider, since that model offers actual airflow performance versus pure marketing performance. Quality control still appears to be an issue. There's plenty of other 120mm options, like the Be!Q Silent Wings 3, Fractal HP12 or Noctua P12.


----------



## Xaeos

Excellent! Thank you for all the info thus far!

I suppose I'd stay with the NB eLoops (the PWM 800 - 2000 variant) for the radiator if they'll provide sufficient performance/quiet since they were included? Or is there any other fan group worth the expense to replace them with?

So when it comes to picking the case fans, it looks like I have room for 1 "true" 140mm mount (rear mount has both 120 and 140 mounting holes) , and the remainder (at the moment; I am not using any FlexBays configured for fans) are 120mm.

Thanks for the info on the "140mm in a 120mm frame" info; I was not aware of them! Looking through some fan reviews like - http://thermalbench.com/category/fans/ it shows there are a handful of high end fans out there like those you mentioned.

For the "true" 140mm, which models do you suggest? Corsair ML Pro 140? Noctua NF-A14 PWM (or is it worth it to go up to the IPPC PWM 2000 or 3000?) One of the Gentle Typhoons, BeQuiet Silent Wings 3, etc..?

When it comes to the 120mm, I gather that the "140 in 120" fans you mention are preferable? Between the Thermalright and the Noctua would you figure one is better than the other? I am inclined to go with the Noctua given their warranty and what seems like good specs, with the only downside being the unfortunate color scheme but I can get over that.. Aside from these, which of the traditional 120mm fans would you suggest out of all those listed?

I know for LED the Corsair ML120 Pro are pretty much the best/only option, right? I'm guessing that there aren't many other high-tier LED fans around, are there? Ideally, it would be neat if Corsair (or someone else) made an improved RGB fan with MagLev bearings plus the ability to control the lighting via software/and/or motherboard. Alas I don't see anything like this planned at the moment. For those without LEDs there is a much wider field of high-tier offerings it seems. I know at the upper echelon that there's often a lot of trading wins back and forth in different circumstances, so I guess that's why there are so many viable options, so I'm trying to figure out if any of them are clear winners versus "pick what you like/what's available as they're all pretty close" situations.

Thanks again!


----------



## MicroCat

For the 140s in 120mm mounting, I like both the Noc A15 and Thermalright 147a. The 147a will likely be cheaper, depending where you live. In Canada the Noctuas are cheaper.

Don't suggest any 140mm case fan that runs above 1200rpm, so IPPC PWM 2000 aren't on my list...unless you enjoy more noise.

In the full 140mm frame, the 24V versions of the IPPC PWM 2000/3000 are an interesting option - they spin at 1100/1600ish rpm at 12V and have generally quieter motors than the 12V versions. The NF-A14 industrialPPC-24V-2000 would be a good choice - if black is required. Here's @ehume's 24V Noctua review - I've used the 3000rpm versions on heatsinks and it's one of the best I've tried. And here's a 140mm case fan roundup from ehume.

The new Be!Q Silent Wings 3 appear promising - both the 120mm and 140mm models.

Yes, the ML120 Pro is probably the best LED 120mm fan at the moment. The new TT 140mm LED rings could be an option too. ehume just reviewed those too.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> I have not had much time to dig into this. My plan is to experiment with the new fans in my system and the older fans in the newer systems and see if the clicking follows the fans or if it is related to the MoBo.
> 
> I'll also double check the fan settings in BIOS. I've yet to install the OS so that needs to happen too.
> 
> I'll report back what I find, but I appreciate the comments so far.


1/1/2017 Update: the Fractal GP14 fans are no longer clicking. thumb.gif

Not sure what I changed that made it all better, but I thought I'd share the great news.


----------



## doyll

@Dan-H, I'm watching this to see what you find out. When testing PWM fans I generally use an Aqua Computer Aquaero 5 LT and have had no clicking problems .. but I have not done a lot of different PWM fans either.


----------



## Dan-H

@doyll, I'm not sure what more I'm going to find out. The fans that were clicking are not clicking any more.

Also, these are voltage controlled not PWM, and I'll be honest I had completely forgotten about the clicking.

I completed a first pass overclocking the 6700K, ( more on that later, and elsewhere... ) and remembered I hadn't installed any fan control software. I heard good things about Asus Fan Xpert 3 so I gave it a try. Only then remembered the case fans were still connected to the case wiring. And since the systems only had two fans, I decided it was time to pull the GP14s from "Daily Driver" ( I bought phantek's for that system ) and get the cooling dialed in.

The first system has five Fractal GP14s:
two base intakes Y-connected to a fan header
two front intakes, each connected to separate fan header's
one exhaust connected its own fan header.
( that uses all the system fan headers on the Maximus Hero VIII )

I ran the Fan Xpert 3 fan tuning, and it was only then I remembered about the fan clicking.

Since the front intake fans were clicking, I experimented a little and I varied the speeds trying to see if I could find a speed where they clicked, but couldn't do it.

Even at speeds barely keeping the fan moving the fans were quiet ( Ok, they didn't click).

When I setup the second system, I realized I was poor at counting and only had four GP 14 fans, so this one has only a single fan at the base but is otherwise identical, and had the same results.

If there is more you would like me to look into I will. I should have unfettered access to these for another week or two and then they'll be in use.

edit: note: this on on the "wish it was mine" system in my sig.


----------



## Xaeos

@microcat and to any others who wish to weigh in...

Thanks again for the info. Oh, now that CES has taken place are there any updated fan announcements/launches I missed? I was a bit disappointed that Corsair didn't release updated RGB fans with ML bearings, for instance, but I didn't see any other new higher-end fan announcements anywhere. Granted, fans are not big items being pushed at CES so its entirely possible I would have missed a few.

So you think that for the 140mm location, that the Noctua 24V 2000rpm but running at standard 12V, is the best option in terms of performance/noise? Or what about the 24V 3000rpm at 12V? I've never worked with 24V fans before... so just hooking them up to a normal 4-pin PWM connector on motherboard will be all right, setting them at 12V? Or will it try and draw too much power through the header or something and therefore should be hooked up to a fan controller? I originally was thinking of connecting it directly to my Rampage V Edition 10 by default and given that even Noctua's page cites them being used at 12V as we've been discussing, I just wanted to ensure I wouldn't miss anything. That review you linked shows these 24v-at-12v fans working out very well indeed, and if they're one of the best options around I'd certainly be willing to invest in one of them for my case's rear exhaust. Then again, it seems that some others (including ..including amazingly enough, those Thermaltake Riing models. Alas, they only seem to be sold in boxes of 3, so its out of the question for the 140mm anyway, since I only have room for 1) are also competitive, so making a final decision seems problematic. It is

When it comes to 120m, there are again many options but I'll try to compare the most recent reviews and multi-fan comparisons. Stacking some of the better offerings of those seems to indicate the same thing, with Noctua, Gentle Typhoons, Corsair MLs, and a few others coming up average or better. Oddly, the Noctua A15 is not often compared against other high end 120MM fans in many other tests. Any other recent comparisons worth checking out or further data to help me make final choices? Thanks.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xaeos*
> 
> @microcat and to any others who wish to weigh in...
> 
> Thanks again for the info. Oh, now that CES has taken place are there any updated fan announcements/launches I missed? I was a bit disappointed that Corsair didn't release updated RGB fans with ML bearings, for instance, but I didn't see any other new higher-end fan announcements anywhere. Granted, fans are not big items being pushed at CES so its entirely possible I would have missed a few.
> 
> So you think that for the 140mm location, that the Noctua 24V 2000rpm but running at standard 12V, is the best option in terms of performance/noise? Or what about the 24V 3000rpm at 12V? I've never worked with 24V fans before... so just hooking them up to a normal 4-pin PWM connector on motherboard will be all right, setting them at 12V? Or will it try and draw too much power through the header or something and therefore should be hooked up to a fan controller? I originally was thinking of connecting it directly to my Rampage V Edition 10 by default and given that even Noctua's page cites them being used at 12V as we've been discussing, I just wanted to ensure I wouldn't miss anything. That review you linked shows these 24v-at-12v fans working out very well indeed, and if they're one of the best options around I'd certainly be willing to invest in one of them for my case's rear exhaust. Then again, it seems that some others (including ..including amazingly enough, those Thermaltake Riing models. Alas, they only seem to be sold in boxes of 3, so its out of the question for the 140mm anyway, since I only have room for 1) are also competitive, so making a final decision seems problematic. It is
> 
> When it comes to 120m, there are again many options but I'll try to compare the most recent reviews and multi-fan comparisons. Stacking some of the better offerings of those seems to indicate the same thing, with Noctua, Gentle Typhoons, Corsair MLs, and a few others coming up average or better. Oddly, the Noctua A15 is not often compared against other high end 120MM fans in many other tests. Any other recent comparisons worth checking out or further data to help me make final choices? Thanks.


You haven't missed anything - on 12V they run just above half rated speed - so they're not industrially noisy. If you perused the ehume review you'll see how slow they can go on 12V. I use the 3000rpm version on coolers - overkill for case fan, unless there's very restrictive filters and/or hot air-cooled components inside. The 2000rpm model at 12V would be a solid choice for 140mm case fan. As is the Thermalright TY-147sq.

Regarding the 120mm choices, as you mentioned, those are very good options. The final choice depends on your preferred balance of appearance, performance and noise. The Noctua P12 is still one of my fav case fans - innocuous noise profile and good performance. The chocolate and cream may not work for your system theme tho. ;-)

Here's what I'd do and have done and will keep doing if I were you - buy a few of all your top 3-5 choices. Reading tests on the internet is a starting point - not the destination.

Installing and testing in your own rig is the the only test that counts. The beauty of building a PC is we get to tweak it to our own needs/sensibilities - once the price point junk is eliminated, what is the best fan to a reviewer/user is ultimately a personal preference. (Also, since you appear to want the RGB...well...buying 3 of the 140mm TTs isn't the worst thing - good to have spares. LOL! - And they make 120mm versions too!)

Comparing a good 140mm fan like the A15 / TY-147a with a 120mm fan isn't fair to the 120mm spinners. Generally, a 140mm fan will move more air than a 120mm at lower speed/noise. Or lower noise for the same airflow. I prefer to use 140mm fans for intakes, space permitting - lower noise and good airflow. When the space isn't available, then I usually go with P12s or GTs or Be!Qs. We're still waiting on the new Noctua 120mm. If you're willing to postpone the build for another year or so...;-)

Over purchasing fans is not actually a sin - one of least costly components in a build. Isn't it better to make the final choices in your own system than with speculation on the internet?

As us airheads know, an empty fan closet/drawer is a very sad thing - don't let it happen to you.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Over purchasing fans is not actually a sin - one of least costly components in a build. Isn't it better to make the final choices in your own system than with speculation on the internet?


question, performance and noise aside, do fans actually fail (stop entirely) outside of their initial faulty defects kicking in?

i mean, i still have this ancient 80mm 3000rpm sleeve bearing delta fan from 15years or so ago, still working in fine order and roaring like a starving kitten.
back then 80mm was the common fan choice and the only thing you can do to make an HSF cool better is take a higher RPM 80mm fan, which is noisy as hell.

i'm asking this because if they do last almost indefinitely, then investing on a better built fan wouldn't be harmful, since you could just move them around.


----------



## doyll

You are right @epic1337. Fans rarely fail. We usually change systems and fans long before the fail.









As for 'better built fan', it's hard to know which are better. There are many $10-15 fans that are built very well and are sometimes 'mo'betta' than more expensive fans, especiallyThose that have sail logos on them.
I have some of the original TY-140 fans that are almost as old as dirt, and they are still going strong.
Like you I have have very few fan failures in computers. I even have a couple vintage house fans that have oil caps for lubricating them .. have to be at least 60-70 years old now.


----------



## epic1337

mhmmm, although i'm having some problems with recent 120mm models, or to be precise the low RPM versions.
dust build-up tends to make it "stiff", thus sometimes they actually do stop entirely, although cleaning them up solves the problem.
the higher RPM fans i have however doesn't have this starting issue, probably because they have enough torque to shrug the dust off.

MTBF rating of these fans should have some truth in it, when i think of these brushless fans the failures that comes to mind are burn-out on the electronics or catastrophic failure of the bearing.
burn-out of it's electronic parts shouldn't be much of an issue if the circuit was designed with the full operating range in mind, and the parts used weren't the junk you'd see on cheap crap parts.
however bearing failure can vary, like lubrication drying out can cause all sorts of issue, one is dramatic increase in abrasion thus increasing friction coefficient then finally stopping altogether.


----------



## Astral85

Your compilation is very useful, I may have overlooked but does it include any data on the stock corsair fans?


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You are right @epic1337. Fans rarely fail. We usually change systems and fans long before the fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for 'better built fan', it's hard to know which are better. There are many $10-15 fans that are built very well and are sometimes 'mo'betta' than more expensive fans, especiallyThose that have sail logos on them.
> I have some of the original TY-140 fans that are almost as old as dirt, and they are still going strong.
> Like you I have have very few fan failures in computers. I even have a couple vintage house fans that have oil caps for lubricating them .. have to be at least 60-70 years old now.


I still don't get the hate on the "sail" fans, never had an issue with any of them, heck i have more issues with Cooler Master and Yate Loons. (Think we had this convo before lol )

Can....Can i have the fan on the right?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Astral85*
> 
> Your compilation is very useful, I may have overlooked but does it include any data on the stock corsair fans?


What fan is the 'stock corsairl fans'?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> I still don't get the hate on the "sail" fans, never had an issue with any of them, heck i have more issues with Cooler Master and Yate Loons. (Think we had this convo before lol )
> 
> Can....Can i have the fan on the right?


I dislike all little sailboats! Especially the ones with nobs in control. Real boats and sailors having to give right of way to idiots in little sailboats (they call them 'yachts' that can turn and stop on a dime making large ships that take miles to turn and/or stop try to alter course and speed to allow them to have the right of way is stupid! 



 about. This tanker was a in no boat lane with a pilot boat out in front of it. No boats were supposed to cross between pilot boat and tanker, but one tried to doing just that to win his 'yacht' race. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt. In court is was stated the sailboat captain had seen the tanker from five miles (8km) away, but it's captain told the court the ship had signalled to turn but never did, describing its manoeuvre as "unexpected". was convicted of one count of failing to keep a proper lookout and two counts of impeding the passage of a tanker in a restricted channel. The shipping channel is not very wide (just wide enough for 2 ships to pass) .. in other words no place for it to turn to .. so there is no logical reason it would have 'signaled to turn'.

N0! You cannot have my foot stool fan!


----------



## PimpSkyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Astral85*
> 
> Your compilation is very useful, I may have overlooked but does it include any data on the stock corsair fans?
> 
> 
> 
> What fan is the 'stock corsairl fans'?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> I still don't get the hate on the "sail" fans, never had an issue with any of them, heck i have more issues with Cooler Master and Yate Loons. (Think we had this convo before lol )
> 
> Can....Can i have the fan on the right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I dislike all little sailboats! Especially the ones with nobs in control. Real boats and sailors having to give right of way to idiots in little sailboats (they call them 'yachts' that can turn and stop on a dime making large ships that take miles to turn and/or stop try to alter course and speed to allow them to have the right of way is stupid!
> 
> 
> 
> about. This tanker was a in no boat lane with a pilot boat out in front of it. No boats were supposed to cross between pilot boat and tanker, but one tried to doing just that to win his 'yacht' race. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt. In court is was stated the sailboat captain had seen the tanker from five miles (8km) away, but it's captain told the court the ship had signalled to turn but never did, describing its manoeuvre as "unexpected". was convicted of one count of failing to keep a proper lookout and two counts of impeding the passage of a tanker in a restricted channel. The shipping channel is not very wide (just wide enough for 2 ships to pass) .. in other words no place for it to turn to .. so there is no logical reason it would have 'signaled to turn'.
> 
> N0! You cannot have my foot stool fan!
Click to expand...

Oh man, i want the fan...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PimpSkyline*
> 
> Oh man, i want the fan...


I found that fan in a American tip i Kansas (didn't see Toto anywhere). Found the Railroad caboose oil mantle lamp made by Aladdin Lamp

I had to get a new wick, mantle, chimney and shade, clean and polish everything and re-blacked the mount. These babies put out more light than any other oil lamp by many times and use much less oil doing it! They are as bright as an 60-70w incandescent lightbulb


----------



## rtikphox

Sad why did he remove the 140mm fans?


----------



## Astral85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What fan is the 'stock corsairl fans'?


The Corsair SP120L


----------



## austinmrs

So i have a Fractal Define S, with a 110i GT in the front, and a NF a14 FLX in the back as exhaust.

So this is what im planning to do:

Buy a X52, put it in the front with stock fans, and put another Fractal Venturi HP-12 in the front. So on the front i would have 3 x 120mm pressure intake.

Then i would buy a Fractal Venturi HF-14 to put on the back.

So i would keep the top closed, and keep 3 x 120mm intake high pressure, and 1 x 140mm back exhausting air out.

What do you think? Any sugestions?

I dont want to put the AIO on top because i would have to populate the front with intake fans still, that would result in more noise, and the AIO on the top of the case would make the cpu hotter.

Thanks for any replys


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Astral85*
> 
> The Corsair SP120L


SP120L moves a lot of air through the radiator, if you change to a quieter fan you will lower the performance of cooler.


----------



## austinmrs

So I have a fractal define S.

H110i GT mounted on the front with 2 x Phanteks F140 MP (both on pwm mode - turbo mode on my viii hero).

Then I have no bottom fans, no top fans (top closed) and 1 x Phanteks F 140MP on the back as exhaust (pwm mode - silent mode on the hero BIOS).

Stressing using real branch at 4.6ghz I can't hear my PC and my temps are fine.

I think I'm still getting positive air pressure, right?

I'm quite happy with my setup now. Any suggestions on airflow? Or am I good?


----------



## dwolvin

Should be positive (imho), but you could add that bottom as an intake to be sure. Or, pop an external bay (or top port) open, and waft a little smoke or something to see if it's pull in or blown out. Out = you have positive pressure even with the exhaust fan.

Third option, move the exhaust fan to the bottom (assumed filtered) intake, and let the air make it's own way out of the case.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> So I have a fractal define S.
> 
> H110i GT mounted on the front with 2 x Phanteks F140 MP (both on pwm mode - turbo mode on my viii hero).
> 
> Then I have no bottom fans, no top fans (top closed) and 1 x Phanteks F 140MP on the back as exhaust (pwm mode - silent mode on the hero BIOS).
> 
> Stressing using real branch at 4.6ghz I can't hear my PC and my temps are fine.
> 
> I think I'm still getting positive air pressure, right?
> 
> I'm quite happy with my setup now. Any suggestions on airflow? Or am I good?


how are temps when the graphics card is under load and the CPU is loaded?

Without testing I will presume heat from the H110i is being pulled into the case and will be the cooling air for the graphics card.

If the temps are fine after an hour of heavy use then you should be good, but if you see the temps climbing up over time you may want to add a bottom intakes and remove the unused PCI slots to make way for the hot air to get out.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> So I have a fractal define S.
> 
> H110i GT mounted on the front with 2 x Phanteks F140 MP (both on pwm mode - turbo mode on my viii hero).
> 
> Then I have no bottom fans, no top fans (top closed) and 1 x Phanteks F 140MP on the back as exhaust (pwm mode - silent mode on the hero BIOS).
> 
> Stressing using real branch at 4.6ghz I can't hear my PC and my temps are fine.
> 
> I think I'm still getting positive air pressure, right?
> 
> I'm quite happy with my setup now. Any suggestions on airflow? Or am I good?


Besides removing a couple of PCIe slot covers, you're there man!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwolvin*
> 
> Should be positive (imho), but you could add that bottom as an intake to be sure. Or, pop an external bay (or top port) open, and waft a little smoke or something to see if it's pull in or blown out. Out = you have positive pressure even with the exhaust fan.
> 
> Third option, move the exhaust fan to the bottom (assumed filtered) intake, and let the air make it's own way out of the case.


A bottom fan almost never improves temps, and sometimes makes them worse. Luckily it's a really easy A / B comparison to perform on your own... you'll never know if you don't try it! For instance, my GPU ran a few degrees hotter when I tested it. I think the airflow from the bottom pushing straight up can starve the GPU of the front-to-back airflow that works best with it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> how are temps when the graphics card is under load and the CPU is loaded?
> 
> Without testing I will presume heat from the H110i is being pulled into the case and will be the cooling air for the graphics card.
> 
> If the temps are fine after an hour of heavy use then you should be good, but if you see the temps climbing up over time you may want to add a bottom intakes and remove the unused PCI slots to make way for the hot air to get out.


Also curious about load temps for CPU and GPU being used together. Try running a well-threaded, demanding game (i.e. BF4 or BF1, Assassin's Creed: Syndicate, etc.) for a while and see what your temps are. You can even use this as an A / B comparison for testing the efficacy of a bottom fan! I, personally, don't think a bottom fan will do anything, but it's an easy thing to test if you have an extra fan and some time.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *austinmrs*
> 
> So I have a fractal define S.
> 
> H110i GT mounted on the front with 2 x Phanteks F140 MP (both on pwm mode - turbo mode on my viii hero).
> 
> Then I have no bottom fans, no top fans (top closed) and 1 x Phanteks F 140MP on the back as exhaust (pwm mode - silent mode on the hero BIOS).
> 
> Stressing using real branch at 4.6ghz I can't hear my PC and my temps are fine.
> 
> I think I'm still getting positive air pressure, right?
> 
> I'm quite happy with my setup now. Any suggestions on airflow? Or am I good?


You are pre-heating all the air going to your GPU. A bottom intake and removing all unused PCIe slot covers will probably help this. Try moving the back exhaust to bottom intake and see what temps do. You might find 'Ways to Better Cooling' linked in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. 5th is good place to start.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ...A bottom intake and removing all unused PCIe sockets will probably help this...


Removing all unused PCI-e "sockets"?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Hey, you are the one giving me such great straight lines.


So you are stalking because of my 'great straight lines' then.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Hey, you are the one giving me such great straight lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are stalking because of my 'great straight lines' then.
Click to expand...

Of course I am. It has nothing to do with wanting to learn more about fans and cooling.









Btw, did Lord Xeb put you up to this? He is always "accusing" me of stalking.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Of course I am. It has nothing to do with wanting to learn more about fans and cooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, did Lord Xeb put you up to this? He is always "accusing" me of stalking.


Don't know who that even is.


----------



## dwolvin

A Lady never stalks. It's just coincidence.

But~ AustinMRS; let us know what you find on the fan swap. I have been surprised often when moving case fans around, and the spare fan as intake seems like it would get more cool air into the case, improving all temps a bit. But it also might case restriction on the 110, causing CPU to increase (doubt it, but...). Whenever I make a large change to a setup I put the exhaust in with those reusable silicon plugs, and then try it as an intake later.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Of course I am. It has nothing to do with wanting to learn more about fans and cooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, did Lord Xeb put you up to this? He is always "accusing" me of stalking.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know who that even is.
Click to expand...

A user here on OCN who is a professional data recovery expert and former Mac tech who has been reporting his occupational adventures here. He also is strong proponent of backing up data. he and I tease each other from time to time, usually over my alleged stalking.


----------



## LazarusIV

@austinmrs What's the word, did you do any testing or fiddling about?


----------



## paskowitz

For God's sake, why are fans and airflow for that matter so hard for people to accurately represent on YouTube?


----------



## dwolvin

Wow- I actually want those minutes back... It made no point and never got around to showing fog flow = temperature at all. And the last part was completely stupid.


----------



## dlewbell

I'm guessing that video got a lot of negative attention. It's so bad they've disabled comments & public visibility of ratings.


----------



## paskowitz

Wasn't there a plan for an OCN YouTube channel a while back? What ever happened to that? The Tested crew are usually pretty good (VR coverage for example), but this was particularly egregious. Like this thread is the 5th result in google for "pc fan testing comparison". Not to mention links 1-4 aren't bad either. I mean... come on.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Hey all,

So I have come for a little advice regarding...well...fans.

I currently have a Coolermaster Mastercase Pro 5 with a front mounted 280mm RAD. It is the Corsair H115 AIO. It currently blows the hot air out of the front of the case just as an FYI.

So I currently have 2 Intake sources, 1x Scythe 120mm to the rear and 2x Scyth 120mm to the top. Obviously my case airflow is going Back to Front rather than the usual Front to back which im happy with as I obviously dont want to fill my case with hot rad air haha.

So my question is what is the best 140mm PWM fans on the market? I would like to replace the 120mm Scythe fans as they are not PWM and I would prefer some better fan management ability as my Scythe fans are not all that quite. I have the option to not have them on at all but I prefer not to do that.

I use my rig as a gamer but also media player, as such I feel a 140mm PWN Fan will be somewhat quieter.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE*
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> So I have come for a little advice regarding...well...fans.
> 
> I currently have a Coolermaster Mastercase Pro 5 with a front mounted 280mm RAD. It is the Corsair H115 AIO. It currently blows the hot air out of the front of the case just as an FYI.
> 
> So I currently have 2 Intake sources, 1x Scythe 120mm to the rear and 2x Scyth 120mm to the top. Obviously my case airflow is going Back to Front rather than the usual Front to back which im happy with as I obviously dont want to fill my case with hot rad air haha.
> 
> So my question is what is the best 140mm PWM fans on the market? I would like to replace the 120mm Scythe fans as they are not PWM and I would prefer some better fan management ability as my Scythe fans are not all that quite. I have the option to not have them on at all but I prefer not to do that.
> 
> I use my rig as a gamer but also media player, as such I feel a 140mm PWN Fan will be somewhat quieter.


There is not 'best fan', but some good case fans would help. 3x 120mm fans move approximately the same amount of air as 2x 140mm fans. Phanteks PH-F140XP or PH-F140MP are good and reasonable priced. Noctua NF-A14 PWM are good, but high priced.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE*
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> So I have come for a little advice regarding...well...fans.
> 
> I currently have a Coolermaster Mastercase Pro 5 with a front mounted 280mm RAD. It is the Corsair H115 AIO. It currently blows the hot air out of the front of the case just as an FYI.
> 
> So I currently have 2 Intake sources, 1x Scythe 120mm to the rear and 2x Scyth 120mm to the top. Obviously my case airflow is going Back to Front rather than the usual Front to back which im happy with as I obviously dont want to fill my case with hot rad air haha.
> 
> So my question is what is the best 140mm PWM fans on the market? I would like to replace the 120mm Scythe fans as they are not PWM and I would prefer some better fan management ability as my Scythe fans are not all that quite. I have the option to not have them on at all but I prefer not to do that.
> 
> I use my rig as a gamer but also media player, as such I feel a 140mm PWN Fan will be somewhat quieter.
> 
> 
> 
> There is not 'best fan', but some good case fans would help. 3x 120mm fans move approximately the same amount of air as 2x 140mm fans. Phanteks PH-F140XP or PH-F140MP are good and reasonable priced. Noctua NF-A14 PWM are good, but high priced.
Click to expand...

Sure, I know that ''Best'' is a very loose term due to the many differing factors  Thanks for the ideas, I have to say that I have been a fan of Noctua in the past with my media centre rigs, so I am happy to use them again and pay a premium for them as I know they are quality through and through


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE*
> 
> Sure, I know that ''Best'' is a very loose term due to the many differing factors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the ideas, I have to say that I have been a fan of Noctua in the past with my media centre rigs, so I am happy to use them again and pay a premium for them as I know they are quality through and through


I've been told by people I trust that the NF-A14 industrialPPC 24V are quieter on 12v and deliver about 1/2 their rated speed. The 3000rpm version runs at 1800rpm on 12 volt and will idle at about 450rpm, maybe 500rpm rather than it's normal 800-3000rpm.

If you are like Thermalright products, The famous TY-14x sereis fans they now make square models .. the TY-147A SQ and TY-143 SQ fans. They are available in EU, but UK has no Thermalright dealer here. If you want some I might be able to help.


----------



## war4peace

Hi everyone!
I recently bought an EKWB Watercooling Kit (The X360) and the Vardar fans which come with the kit absolutely stink. Sorry but it's the truth.
They are set to pull air through the 60mm rad from the outside, front-mounted on a Fractal Design Define S case.

* When starting, one of the fans makes an annoying noise (

__
https://soundcloud.com/eduard-burlacu-808478901%2Fsets%2Fvardar-noise
);
* At higher RPM (800+), the sound shape they are making is annoying, a higher pitch sound which is similar to vents which are not properly fastened (mine are, I have triple-checked). All are making theis nouse, the top one (which makes the beat above) being the most annoying, the others less so but only marginally better.
* At highest RPM they howl, instead of making the usual whoosh sound that I am used to with other vents.

So I want to change them.
I am looking for a set of three 120mm fans with max RPM at around 1500, as quiet as possible, and lowest RPM should be as low as possible (400 or below). If you have any ideas, I'd much appreciate it!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Hi everyone!
> I recently bought an EKWB Watercooling Kit (The X360) and the Vardar fans which come with the kit absolutely stink. Sorry but it's the truth.
> They are set to pull air through the 60mm rad from the outside, front-mounted on a Fractal Design Define S case.
> 
> * When starting, one of the fans makes an annoying noise (
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/eduard-burlacu-808478901%2Fsets%2Fvardar-noise
> );
> * At higher RPM (800+), the sound shape they are making is annoying, a higher pitch sound which is similar to vents which are not properly fastened (mine are, I have triple-checked). All are making theis nouse, the top one (which makes the beat above) being the most annoying, the others less so but only marginally better.
> * At highest RPM they howl, instead of making the usual whoosh sound that I am used to with other vents.
> 
> So I want to change them.
> I am looking for a set of three 120mm fans with max RPM at around 1500, as quiet as possible, and lowest RPM should be as low as possible (400 or below). If you have any ideas, I'd much appreciate it!


The problem may be a lack of space between fan impeller and radiator fins.
The way fans are built when they are mounted to 'push' air into radiator there is an added spacing created between impeller and radiator because of the motor mounting frame. This added spacing is removed when fan is mounted to 'pull'. Hope that makes sense.

If you can, try them mounted to push instead of pull and see if there is a difference.

I don't know what fans to suggest because I don't know what the speed range of your fans is.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The problem may be a lack of space between fan impeller and radiator fins.
> The way fans are built when they are mounted to 'push' air into radiator there is an added spacing created between impeller and radiator because of the motor mounting frame. This added spacing is removed when fan is mounted to 'pull'. Hope that makes sense.
> 
> If you can, try them mounted to push instead of pull and see if there is a difference.


Kind of not possible with the rad front-mounted on the Define S.
Reason 1: the vents would suck air from the case, and there's really not enough inflow (modu-vents are not removed from top and I intend on keeping it that way due to small kids around the house which have the tendency to drop stuff such as biscuit crumbs on top of the case)
Reason 2: The air would be pushed outside the case into the filter mounted there, which means the dust is going to accumulate on the radiator. As they are right now, the filter stops the dust and it's easy to clean.

I am thinking of changing the case, have been eyeballing the Be Quiet! dark Base 900 (NOT the Pro version) but until that's possible I am stuck with the Define S.

I understand what you mean, however my previous fans (GT 800 RPM) were set up the same way (front mounted, pulling air from outside into the case) and they were not making these ugly noises.


----------



## RyuBlade94

Hi guys! I'm looking for the best (possibly) 140mm fan. By best, i mean with the best noise to airflow possible. Also, one of my big issues with fans seems to be the "noise" most fans get against some grid or something like that in the case.
I'm gonna use them as case fans, 1 inside the case iteself and one as an exhaust fan. My biggest concern is mainly the exhaust one which makes some sort of constant noise even with a noiseblocker eloop :/
Which fan do you think i should go for? Thanks!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Kind of not possible with the rad front-mounted on the Define S.
> Reason 1: the vents would suck air from the case, and there's really not enough inflow (modu-vents are not removed from top and I intend on keeping it that way due to small kids around the house which have the tendency to drop stuff such as biscuit crumbs on top of the case)
> Reason 2: The air would be pushed outside the case into the filter mounted there, which means the dust is going to accumulate on the radiator. As they are right now, the filter stops the dust and it's easy to clean.
> 
> I am thinking of changing the case, have been eyeballing the Be Quiet! dark Base 900 (NOT the Pro version) but until that's possible I am stuck with the Define S.
> 
> I understand what you mean, however my previous fans (GT 800 RPM) were set up the same way (front mounted, pulling air from outside into the case) and they were not making these ugly noises.


Do you mean the the old Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800rpm fans? Could you try just those two and see if the solve the noise problems? Reason I ask is they are still available in several rpm ranges.
https://www.dazmode.com/store/search/?query=gentle+typhoon&records=16&x=0&y=0
and other sites as well.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Do you mean the the old Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800rpm fans? Could you try just those two and see if the solve the noise problems? Reason I ask is they are still available in several rpm ranges.
> https://www.dazmode.com/store/search/?query=gentle+typhoon&records=16&x=0&y=0
> and other sites as well.


Yeah, those ones. The Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800RPM. Great fans.
In the EU, the GTs are priced at premium ranges, as in 45 EUR a piece, that's around 150 EUR for a set of three, at this price I'd just buy one more radiator and let them cool passively mostly









Example 1.
Example 2.

I also found this, they ship internationally, so I will order 3 of those. I hope they're legit.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuBlade94*
> 
> Hi guys! I'm looking for the best (possibly) 140mm fan. By best, i mean with the best noise to airflow possible. Also, one of my big issues with fans seems to be the "noise" most fans get against some grid or something like that in the case.
> I'm gonna use them as case fans, 1 inside the case iteself and one as an exhaust fan. My biggest concern is mainly the exhaust one which *makes some sort of constant noise even with a noiseblocker eloop*] :/
> Which fan do you think i should go for? Thanks!


Take the fan out, listen to it in free air. Is it noisy? If no, pick up a can opener and go to town on that exhaust grill, because that's what's making the noise, and changing the fan won't really do anything.

P.S. exhaust fans are overrated


----------



## RyuBlade94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Loladinas*
> 
> Take the fan out, listen to it in free air. Is it noisy? If no, pick up a can opener and go to town on that exhaust grill, because that's what's making the noise, and changing the fan won't really do anything.
> 
> P.S. exhaust fans are overrated


Well thing is that as long as I had my gentle Typhoon back there there was any kind of buzzing noise. But since I had to replace it after getting my gt on a 240mm radiator it started doing that. So yeah it is definitely the grid that is causing this, but I also know that there are some fans that prevent me from getting that buzzing!


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> There is not 'best fan', but some good case fans would help. 3x 120mm fans move approximately the same amount of air as 2x 140mm fans. Phanteks PH-F140XP or PH-F140MP are good and reasonable priced. Noctua NF-A14 PWM are good, but high priced.


+1 Phanteks fans are awesome-sauce








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Kind of not possible with the rad front-mounted on the Define S.
> Reason 1: the vents would suck air from the case, and there's really not enough inflow (modu-vents are not removed from top and I intend on keeping it that way due to small kids around the house which have the tendency to drop stuff such as biscuit crumbs on top of the case)
> Reason 2: The air would be pushed outside the case into the filter mounted there, which means the dust is going to accumulate on the radiator. As they are right now, the filter stops the dust and it's easy to clean.
> 
> I am thinking of changing the case, have been eyeballing the Be Quiet! dark Base 900 (NOT the Pro version) but until that's possible I am stuck with the Define S.
> 
> I understand what you mean, however my previous fans (GT 800 RPM) were set up the same way (front mounted, pulling air from outside into the case) and they were not making these ugly noises.


So you had the previous fans oriented as front intake, but now you have them set up as pull on the radiator pulling air through the case, through the radiator, and blowing out the front of the Define S? If I'm understanding you correctly (may need a picture) that's a terrible setup and not what the Define S is designed around.

If you want to maximize this case, put your fans as intake in the front, set up as push on the radiator into the case. You will get the best temps and the effect on your graphics card(s) temps will be negligible (



). Continue to keep the top ModuVents installed (great kid-guard, for sure) and you will continue to enjoy silence! An easy way to help aftermarket cooler GPU temps is to remove 1 or 2 of the PCIe slot covers directly below the graphics card, that way the exhaust heat can easily make its way out of the case.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Yeah, those ones. The Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800RPM. Great fans.
> In the EU, the GTs are priced at premium ranges, as in 45 EUR a piece, that's around 150 EUR for a set of three, at this price I'd just buy one more radiator and let them cool passively mostly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example 1.
> Example 2.
> 
> I also found this, they ship internationally, so I will order 3 of those. I hope they're legit.


Way too much money for Scythe GTs!
Where on Earth are you?


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> So you had the previous fans oriented as front intake, but now you have them set up as pull on the radiator pulling air through the case, through the radiator, and blowing out the front of the Define S? If I'm understanding you correctly (may need a picture) that's a terrible setup and not what the Define S is designed around.


No sir, I am not that dumb








If you look at the open case, the front case is on the right, then the radiator's there, then the fans which pull air from the front, through the radiator, into the case.


Spoiler: Picture of the setup






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> If you want to maximize this case, put your fans as intake in the front, set up as push on the radiator into the case. You will get the best temps and the effect on your graphics card(s) temps will be negligible (
> 
> 
> 
> ). Continue to keep the top ModuVents installed (great kid-guard, for sure) and you will continue to enjoy silence! An easy way to help aftermarket cooler GPU temps is to remove 1 or 2 of the PCIe slot covers directly below the graphics card, that way the exhaust heat can easily make its way out of the case.


Yes I'll have to redo the whole thing but that's going to happen soon, when my GPU waterblock and backplate will arrive.
The reason I didn't sandwich the fans was that in case they have issues, I would change them easily, rather than having to unscrew everything. Another reason was that it's safer to fasten the radiator to the case directly, as they are both metal, rather than put strain on the fans by having them hold the radiator in the air through screws.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Way too much money for Scythe GTs!
> Where on Earth are you?


Eastern Europe, European Union. GT fans are simply no longer available 'round here.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> No sir, I am not that dumb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the open case, the front case is on the right, then the radiator's there, then the fans which pull air from the front, through the radiator, into the case.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Picture of the setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I'll have to redo the whole thing but that's going to happen soon, when my GPU waterblock and backplate will arrive.
> The reason I didn't sandwich the fans was that in case they have issues, I would change them easily, rather than having to unscrew everything. Another reason was that it's safer to fasten the radiator to the case directly, as they are both metal, rather than put strain on the fans by having them hold the radiator in the air through screws.
> Eastern Europe, European Union. GT fans are simply no longer available 'round here.


Ahhhh ok I getcha now. I apologize if my post implied I thought you were dumb, that is not true at all. I was just merely confused, that's all! I know putting the fans on the inside of the radiator can get you a bit quieter setup in general, but performance will suffer some. I'd recommend when you get the GPU stuff and you have to redo the loop anyway, to put the fans in a push configuration. You'll get much better performance and the fans will perform better in general and sound better!

I love that setup, it looks really good! When you get your GPU block installed and get a chance to OC and test, make sure you let us know your temps and include pics! I love the idea of using a good 360mm rad for a good CPU / GPU setup. Heck, even some dual GPU setups can use a good 360mm rad!

If you're looking for different 120mm fans (can't remember if that was one of your original questions...) I *highly* recommend Phanteks fans. The PH-F120MP is a great PWM fan with an 1800RPM ceiling. If you're looking for a fan with a lower RPM ceiling, the PH-F120XP is a good choice. They have a non-PWM fan that's good, the PH-F120SP, if you just want to set it and forget it or use voltage control.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> No sir, I am not that dumb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the open case, the front case is on the right, then the radiator's there, then the fans which pull air from the front, through the radiator, into the case.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Picture of the setup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I'll have to redo the whole thing but that's going to happen soon, when my GPU waterblock and backplate will arrive.
> The reason I didn't sandwich the fans was that in case they have issues, I would change them easily, rather than having to unscrew everything. Another reason was that it's safer to fasten the radiator to the case directly, as they are both metal, rather than put strain on the fans by having them hold the radiator in the air through screws.
> Eastern Europe, European Union. GT fans are simply no longer available 'round here.


I've had good luck with the Phanteks PH-F120MP. Maybe look at Corsair ML 120


----------



## war4peace

Nah don't worry mate, I was joking








The GPU setup will add the waterblock and an 140mm radiator which is going to be mounted at the back of the case with the 140mm fans that came with the case, in a push-pull configuration.
The water flow will be as follows:
Pump-->GPU-->140mm rad-->CPU-->360mm rad-->reservoir-->pump

This way, I'll mitigate the GPU heat somewhat when gaming and help cool the inside of the case when rendering my stuff.

So far I've tested the setup with Handbrake, OCCT and AME.
The CPU stays at 3.9 GHz with XMP on, strap at 125 MHz, no other changes in UEFI. its temperatures heavily depend on the fans and pump speed, I never tested properly at full speed but will do once the loop is complete.
I played with the CPU multiplier only and managed a multiplier of 35 at 1.424V (set by UEFI, nothing manual), giving the CPU a speed of 4.375 GHz. It tends to run really hot in OCCT, at 75+ degrees Celsius, with fans and pump at full speed. I know I can fine tune the settings and obtain lower temperatures, just didn't spend much time on it knowing that the loop is not yet finished.

With the black GTs I am ordering, and Mayhems Pastel Black as liquid, I am aiming for a dark theme for the PC. The X99 A II monoblock from EKWB would have been nice to have but maybe some time in the future.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

So I just got 3x Noctua NF-A14 140mm fans and im looking forward to testing them. Loved Noctua in the past so I doubt ill be disappointed. Will give some feedback soon. Cheers guys.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> I love that setup, it looks really good! When you get your GPU block installed and get a chance to OC and test, make sure you let us know your temps and include pics! I love the idea of using a good 360mm rad for a good CPU / GPU setup. Heck, even some dual GPU setups can use a good 360mm rad!


Since I was planning on doing some encoding today, I thought of monitoring the temperatures for intermediate measuring and to double-check on those Vardar fans.
Used Handbrake to encode a couple of World of Tanks replays, it wasn't a long task, the whole queue took about 30 minutes to finish.

The CPU temperature (6800K at 3.9 GHz, used 100%) peaked at 54 degrees Celsius, with pump at full speed (4500 RPM) and vents at 1100-1200 RPM (varying based on CPU temperature). The top Vardar fan noise was horrendous though, you can listen to its howling *


https://soundcloud.com/eduard-burlacu-808478901%2Fvardars-at-1100-rpm
*.
So yes, they absolutely have to be replaced when I redo my loop.
The recording was done using my Samsung A5 2016 and the Voice Recorder app, with the phone sitting on the top of my case.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Since I was planning on doing some encoding today, I thought of monitoring the temperatures for intermediate measuring and to double-check on those Vardar fans.
> Used Handbrake to encode a couple of World of Tanks replays, it wasn't a long task, the whole queue took about 30 minutes to finish.
> 
> The CPU temperature (6800K at 3.9 GHz, used 100%) peaked at 54 degrees Celsius, with pump at full speed (4500 RPM) and vents at 1100-1200 RPM (varying based on CPU temperature). The top Vardar fan noise was horrendous though, you can listen to its howling *
> 
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/eduard-burlacu-808478901%2Fvardars-at-1100-rpm
> *.
> So yes, they absolutely have to be replaced when I redo my loop.
> The recording was done using my Samsung A5 2016 and the Voice Recorder app, with the phone sitting on the top of my case.


Good God, that jet engine tho! Replace those fans immediately!









I think those temps are great, and I don't think adding the GPU to the loop with the single 360mm rad will change temps a ton, unless you go [email protected] overclock.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Well I have my Noctua NF-A14 140mm fans and I have to day that I am very pleased, whisper quite operation when not required and shift a lot of air when pushed and generally fairly quite when at full speed also which is a win. Definitely would recommend for anyone looking for a quite but powerful 140mm fan.


----------



## doyll

The Noctua fans are good, no question about it. My problem with them is they are seriously over-priced. NF-A14 are £19-23.00 while similar performance like PH-F140XP or PH-F140MP are £12-13.00.

A good source of fan test data is CoolngTechique. Click the search button, enter fan model and go to the performance tables and videos window.
http://www.coolingtechnique.com/


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The Noctua fans are good, no question about it. My problem with them is they are seriously over-priced. NF-A14 are £19-23.00 while similar performance like PH-F140XP or PH-F140MP are £12-13.00.
> 
> A good source of fan test data is CoolngTechique. Click the search button, enter fan model and go to the performance tables and videos window.
> http://www.coolingtechnique.com/


I'm sorry but according to the very same website you are mentioning, the PH-F140XP has a static pressure of 0.39-1.52 mm H2O while the Noctua NF-A14 has a STATIC PRESSURE OF 4.18 mm H2O. That's a huge difference, but at the same time the NF-A14 runs atr 24V so YMMV.


----------



## RnRollie

Something go lost in translation i suppose

NF-A14 & NF-A14 iPPC are not quite the same fan

http://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a14-pwm/specification
http://noctua.at/en/products/fan/industrial

i mean, spot the main difference: (except the colour)
 

hint: its under the hood


----------



## war4peace

My bad








Has anyone tried the Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure? They're saying that in Performance Mode the RPM range goes all the way from 650 to 2750 RPM which is a bit odd.


----------



## cfraser

Depending where you live. Here (Canada) Noctua fans are cheaper to acquire overall than anything remotely comparable from Thermalright or Phanteks. I don't see T or P getting any cheaper, just the way it is here, market not large enough for better distribution I guess. I'm going to guess that Noctua is extremely popular here for that reason, based on the frequency their common models sell out at various places. They are very expensive from 3rd parties (i.e. not amazon/newegg) though, comparable or (much) worse than the UK prices. I will go so far as to say that Noctua is the bargain-basement of quality fans here, kinda sad really, but good-sad in that you won't go much wrong choosing one of them.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> My bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure? They're saying that in Performance Mode the RPM range goes all the way from 650 to 2750 RPM which is a bit odd.


Why is that odd? Those fans simply have an RPM regulator to go between three rated speeds. The fan itself is okay, but no idea why they went with the rounded frame even though the OEM versions sold with their AIOs has a full square frame


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Why is that odd? Those fans simply have an RPM regulator to go between three rated speeds. The fan itself is okay, but no idea why they went with the rounded frame even though the OEM versions sold with their AIOs has a full square frame


Here's what I find odd: we're looking at a PWM fan. You can set it to anything between 650 and 2750 RPM (by the way, that range seems too large to be true). Why would you need that tiny switch located in an awkward place? The fact the fan is PWM defies the reason for that switch.
This looks to me like there's maybe a mistake in the stats. I would assume that that switch limits both the lower and the upper RPM bound. It limiting the upper RPM bound seems odd.

That fan seems to be the perfect one for watercooling: excellent lower bound RPM for silent operation, very good static pressure at upper bound RPM limits, offers both quietness and performance at a reasonable price. So where's the catch?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cfraser*
> 
> Depending where you live. Here (Canada) Noctua fans are cheaper to acquire overall than anything remotely comparable from Thermalright or Phanteks. I don't see T or P getting any cheaper, just the way it is here, market not large enough for better distribution I guess. I'm going to guess that Noctua is extremely popular here for that reason, based on the frequency their common models sell out at various places. They are very expensive from 3rd parties (i.e. not amazon/newegg) though, comparable or (much) worse than the UK prices. I will go so far as to say that Noctua is the bargain-basement of quality fans here, kinda sad really, but good-sad in that you won't go much wrong choosing one of them.


Well, as far as know Thermalright has no dealers in Canada.

On Amazon.ca NF-A14 PWM is $26.99 and PH-F140MP is $17.99. That is $9.00 lower priced.


----------



## RnRollie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Why is that odd? Those fans simply have an RPM regulator to go between three rated speeds. The fan itself is okay, but no idea why they went with the rounded frame even though the OEM versions sold with their AIOs has a full square frame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what I find odd: we're looking at a PWM fan. You can set it to anything between 650 and 2750 RPM (by the way, that range seems too large to be true). Why would you need that tiny switch located in an awkward place? The fact the fan is PWM defies the reason for that switch.
> This looks to me like there's maybe a mistake in the stats. I would assume that that switch limits both the lower and the upper RPM bound. It limiting the upper RPM bound seems odd.
> 
> That fan seems to be the perfect one for watercooling: excellent lower bound RPM for silent operation, very good static pressure at upper bound RPM limits, offers both quietness and performance at a reasonable price. So where's the catch?
Click to expand...

indeed, a true PWM fan has no need for a "profile switch"

And by looking at the RPM range per profile, it seems very much to be a voltage limiter.. which is never a good idea on a PWM motor.. and NOT NEEDED on a PWM motor as it defies the whole concept of PWM.

And if it is a switch that controls the PWM switching circuit itself, then it is a useless piece of engineering just adding complexity and potential failure points as there are better solutions to do that... besides its PWM, it is NOT NEEDED.

And if it is really innovative & groundbreaking.. then it cant be cheap.

Some one at CM should explain the motivation behind this .... thing


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RnRollie*
> 
> indeed, a true PWM fan has no need for a "profile switch"
> 
> And by looking at the RPM range per profile, it seems very much to be a voltage limiter.. which is never a good idea on a PWM motor.. and NOT NEEDED on a PWM motor as it defies the whole concept of PWM.
> 
> And if it is a switch that controls the PWM switching circuit itself, then it is a useless piece of engineering just adding complexity and potential failure points as there are better solutions to do that... besides its PWM, it is NOT NEEDED.
> 
> And if it is really innovative & groundbreaking.. then it cant be cheap.
> 
> Some one at CM should explain the motivation behind this .... thing


It's a resistor reducing the current supply to the fan, the voltage fed is 12 V. Nothing new here, many fans have done this before. The way this is advertized is for those who wish to just set and forget and not want to deal with setting up PWM fan control and RPM curves.


----------



## cfraser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Well, as far as know Thermalright has no dealers in Canada.
> 
> On Amazon.ca NF-A14 PWM is $26.99 and PH-F140MP is $17.99. That is $9.00 lower priced.


I don't check prices regularly! amazon's prices can be all over the map, and supply is variable, depends when you look. Usually, the shipping costs destroy any savings. That's why I say "acquire" rather than "buy" when I make these statements.

Typically on e.g. newegg, where I bought some more NF-A14s recently, where they were (as you say) $27 incl. shipping, the equivalent Phanteks was $27 + $9 (each) shipping. My statement was to say that there's no point in paying the same or more for something that is not any better when I know Noctua is good. If the Phanteks is cheaper when you "need" the fan, then certainly it's a good option.

For myself, I'd take the Noctua over Phanteks any day though. Yes I'm biased.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cfraser*
> 
> I don't check prices regularly! amazon's prices can be all over the map, and supply is variable, depends when you look. Usually, the shipping costs destroy any savings. That's why I say "acquire" rather than "buy" when I make these statements.
> 
> Typically on e.g. newegg, where I bought some more NF-A14s recently, where they were (as you say) $27 incl. shipping, the equivalent Phanteks was $27 + $9 (each) shipping. My statement was to say that there's no point in paying the same or more for something that is not any better when I know Noctua is good. If the Phanteks is cheaper when you "need" the fan, then certainly it's a good option.
> 
> For myself, I'd take the Noctua over Phanteks any day though. Yes I'm biased.


Amazon and newegg are both e-tail outlets for many other smaller e-tailers. Both have a wide variance in prices and availabilty of same products. You are playing semantics with this 'aquire' or 'buy' slight of hand talk .. if you paid money for it you bought it.









A quick look on newegg.ca shows NF-A14 PWM at $26.99 free shipping and PH-F140MP at $17.99 +$4.99 shipping
The newegg.ca prices are NF-A14 PWM $26.99 eligible for free shipping and PH-F140MP at $17.99 eligible for free shipping.

I respect that you are biased toward Noctua .. that is the main reason Noctua can sell at higher prices than their equals and maintain a strong market share. They make good products .. as good as anyone and better than many .. and their customer support is 2nd to none. But their prices are based on reputation and support, not higher performance and quality. In the modern world it's not about how good the product is, but how good their marketing / advertising is. Tell the story enough times and people believe it. I"m guessing you have little or no experience with Phanteks products.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> It's a resistor reducing the current supply to the fan, the voltage fed is 12 V. Nothing new here, many fans have done this before. The way this is advertized is for those who wish to just set and forget and not want to deal with setting up PWM fan control and RPM curves.


I found a review here - it looks like a decent fan, relatively cheap, but that DIP switch is really unneeded.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> I found a review here - it looks like a decent fan, relatively cheap, but that DIP switch is really unneeded.


Just saying, you are linking my own review to me


----------



## dwolvin

Badum-tish!


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Just saying, you are linking my own review to me


As a new forum member... didn't know that








Great reviews by the way.


----------



## paskowitz

Just got 2 Corsair ML 140 Pro fans. Airflow is decent, no better than my Noctua NF-A14 iPPCs by my very sorry scientific hand feel test... but the acoustics are great. Much less noise up to around 1300rpm. Noctuas have a slight buzzing/whiting sound while the MLs are mostly air noise.


----------



## czin125

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cougar-black-hb-cfd12-fan-120mm-fg-000-cu.html
These don't have leds unlike the other versions. How well would this one do?


----------



## Metalhead79

I'm looking to quiet my system down some and am looking for some fan suggestions.

I have a Define R4 with the HDD cages removed. I use three 140mm XSPC Xinruilian 1350RPM fans for intake. Two front, one side. I do not have any exhaust fans. My CPU cooler is a Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power. My GPU is a Gigabyte G1 Gaming R9 Fury. Temps for my CPU and GPU under load are fine - I doubt I could do much better.
I run my case fans at 7v and while it's fairly quiet, I feel like I could make it a bit quieter while still maintaining thermal performance. I was thinking about replacing my XSPC fans with Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B14-3's and possibly going to an NH-D15 for my CPU cooler (the idea being I could run the fans slower on the D15 while still getting good temps vs the TS140).

Thoughts?


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metalhead79*
> 
> I'm looking to quiet my system down some and am looking for some fan suggestions.
> 
> I have a Define R4 with the HDD cages removed. I use three 140mm XSPC Xinruilian 1350RPM fans for intake. Two front, one side. I do not have any exhaust fans. My CPU cooler is a Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power. My GPU is a Gigabyte G1 Gaming R9 Fury. Temps for my CPU and GPU under load are fine - I doubt I could do much better.
> I run my case fans at 7v and while it's fairly quiet, I feel like I could make it a bit quieter while still maintaining thermal performance. I was thinking about replacing my XSPC fans with Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B14-3's and possibly going to an NH-D15 for my CPU cooler (the idea being I could run the fans slower on the D15 while still getting good temps vs the TS140).
> 
> Thoughts?


Try this:

Take the fan off the side, put the sound-dampening cover back on. Put the (previously) side fan on rear exhaust. Remove 1 or 2 PCI slot covers immediately below your GPU. Front to back airflow is great for these cases and stopping up that hole in the side should help quite a bit with noise. I've found side and bottom intake or exhaust fans typically aren't very effective and only add noise. Pretty easy to flip the stuff around like I suggest, see if you notice a decent difference...

Also, I highly recommend Phanteks PH-F140MP or XP series fans. The XP series have a lower RPM ceiling overall and they are exceedingly quiet even at max RPM. The MP series has a higher RPM ceiling and therefore makes more noise in general, but they are still relatively quiet for their performance. The XP fans I use each came with a ULNA, too


----------



## Metalhead79

GPU temp goes up several degrees without the side fan on it. I do have the PCI brackets removed already, should have mentioned that earlier. I have tried every combination with fans possible in the case, I get my best temps on the GPU with my current setup - 2 front intake, 1 side intake, no exhaust fan, top fan mounts blocked with included sound dampeners.

I'm just looking for better fans that can move similar amounts of air with less noise. I'll take a look at the Phanteks. Thanks!


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metalhead79*
> 
> GPU temp goes up several degrees without the side fan on it. I do have the PCI brackets removed already, should have mentioned that earlier. I have tried every combination with fans possible in the case, I get my best temps on the GPU with my current setup - 2 front intake, 1 side intake, no exhaust fan, top fan mounts blocked with included sound dampeners.
> 
> I'm just looking for better fans that can move similar amounts of air with less noise. I'll take a look at the Phanteks. Thanks!


Let us know how the new fans work out!


----------



## silentLightning

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01G2942BK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1490819240&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=TY147A&dpPl=1&dpID=51m3ZtpjCoL&ref=plSrch
I need 4 of these, in all black. somebody start stocking it in NA! Or let me know how much it costs to ship them an id pay someone through paypal?
Or maybe I should just go with Noctuas 14 or 15? TY147Asq are nicer color, shape an work just as good though.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silentLightning*
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01G2942BK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1490819240&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=TY147A&dpPl=1&dpID=51m3ZtpjCoL&ref=plSrch
> I need 4 of these, in all black. somebody start stocking it in NA! Or let me know how much it costs to ship them an id pay someone through paypal?
> Or maybe I should just go with Noctuas 14 or 15? TY147Asq are nicer color, shape an work just as good though.


Yeah dude, I wish those Squares were in NA... Though take a look at Phanteks PH-F140MP / XP, those are some great 140's! I have them filling my case and they are quiet and mighty.


----------



## Virgle144

This is some really cool information, I hope that one day I get serious enough about my build that I need this info one day.


----------



## silentLightning

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Yeah dude, I wish those Squares were in NA... Though take a look at Phanteks PH-F140MP / XP, those are some great 140's! I have them filling my case and they are quiet and mighty.


Will do, but usually dont change my mind very easy ?


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *silentLightning*
> 
> Will do, but usually dont change my mind very easy ?


----------



## MasterBash

I still have one more fan to add to my PC. I am mostly focused on silence. I got a Noctua NF A14 pwm in mind or another Phanteks F140XP. Which one would you guys recommend?

Its for the back of my Fractal Design Define S.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I still have one more fan to add to my PC. I am mostly focused on silence. I got a Noctua NF A14 pwm in mind or another Phanteks F140XP. Which one would you guys recommend?
> 
> Its for the back of my Fractal Design Define S.


If it's for exhaust, for a strong exhaust I'd recommend Phanteks F140MP PWM, if you want to match your others, get another XP. Noctua fans are good, but so freaking expensive!


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> If it's for exhaust, for a strong exhaust I'd recommend Phanteks F140MP PWM, if you want to match your others, get another XP. Noctua fans are good, but so freaking expensive!


Hi Lazarus. Those PH-140MP, are pushing air through dust filters or any other obstacle ? Or they're pushing with no resistance at all? I'm considering these to put on a Define R5.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> Hi Lazarus. Those PH-140MP, are pushing air through dust filters or any other obstacle ? Or they're pushing with no resistance at all? I'm considering these to put on a Define R5.


Sorry, are you asking if they're good at pushing / pulling air through filters and other obstacles? Yes, I'd say they are. They have good air flow and static pressure and their noise profile is very good, just a gentle wooshing sound. Take a look at thermalbench.com, tons of fan / cooler reviews from one of our very own!


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Sorry, are you asking if they're good at pushing / pulling air through filters and other obstacles? Yes, I'd say they are. They have good air flow and static pressure and their noise profile is very good, just a gentle wooshing sound. Take a look at thermalbench.com, tons of fan / cooler reviews from one of our very own!


Yes I was asking that, sorry for not explaining myself the right way.

Some users recommended this fan, but I'm always searching for more feedback.
They're going to work as front intake on a Define R5, which has a door and a dust filter. That's why asked.

I've read the review on thermal bench, even spoke with the admin. He said that they would be a good option.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> Yes I was asking that, sorry for not explaining myself the right way.
> 
> Some users recommended this fan, but I'm always searching for more feedback.
> They're going to work as front intake on a Define R5, which has a door and a dust filter. That's why asked.
> 
> I've read the review on thermal bench, even spoke with the admin. He said that they would be a good option.


Gotcha, no worries, just wanted to clarify!

I have the XP which have a lower RPM limit than the MP versions. I also have the Define S which has a very similar front to the R5 (might be the exact same, not sure). I am very happy with the fans I've got, so if you want to make sure you get plenty of airflow into the front I think the MP versions are a perfect choice!


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Gotcha, no worries, just wanted to clarify!
> 
> I have the XP which have a lower RPM limit than the MP versions. I also have the Define S which has a very similar front to the R5 (might be the exact same, not sure). I am very happy with the fans I've got, so if you want to make sure you get plenty of airflow into the front I think the MP versions are a perfect choice!


Awesome. Thanks a lot! I was having second thoughts about the MP or some Noctua. Or ever the TY-147A. Although this last one is pretty hard to get around here.
I guess I'll stick with the MP.
The Define S shouldn't be very different, from what I've seen. Once again, thank you a lot


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> Awesome. Thanks a lot! I was having second thoughts about the MP or some Noctua. Or ever the TY-147A. Although this last one is pretty hard to get around here.
> I guess I'll stick with the MP.
> The Define S shouldn't be very different, from what I've seen. Once again, thank you a lot


No worries, let us know how it turns out! Pictures are always welcome!


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> No worries, let us know how it turns out! Pictures are always welcome!


I'll post some after I have everything settled on the case


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I still have one more fan to add to my PC. I am mostly focused on silence. I got a Noctua NF A14 pwm in mind or another Phanteks F140XP. Which one would you guys recommend?
> 
> Its for the back of my Fractal Design Define S.


I suggest another PH-F140XP like you have as intakes. Do you have just the 2x front intakes or are you using a bottom intake as well? What are your temps like now? Either way, with the XPs you will probably see little to no improvement with rear exhaust, especially if unused PCIe back slot covers are removed. .

The MP has a little higher pressure rating and flows a little more air against resistance. This is more eveident at low rpm.


----------



## MasterBash

I use 3 in front and 1 at the bottom, all at the lowest rpm. I got no exhaust fan atm. So you recommend the F140MP instead? Is it just as quiet or should I use no exhaust fan at all?

my temps are good except for the GPU under full load (80-82C). That is in my dorm room and its really hot because its so small and I have many things running creating heat. I don't have this problem when I use my pc at a friend's house, because the ambient temp is unusually high here, even during winter.

Just a reminder that the Define S does not have the "grill" next to the pci-e slots. I got some GELID expansion slot covers I could use, but I don't know if I should or if it would make a difference.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I use 3 in front and 1 at the bottom, all at the lowest rpm. I got no exhaust fan atm. So you recommend the F140MP instead? Is it just as quiet or should I use no exhaust fan at all?
> 
> my temps are good except for the GPU under full load (80-82C). That is in my dorm room and its really hot because its so small and I have many things running creating heat. I don't have this problem when I use my pc at a friend's house, because the ambient temp is unusually high here, even during winter.
> 
> Just a reminder that the Define S does not have the "grill" next to the pci-e slots. I got some GELID expansion slot covers I could use, but I don't know if I should or if it would make a difference.


Honestly, I think you're fine without an exhaust fan. I think you have a reference blower cooler but maybe consider removing 1 PCI slot cover right underneath your graphics card so the air has somewhere to flow to. Otherwise it could just swirl around underneath the card and hinder the flow of fresh air to the card's intake.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> My temps are good except for the GPU under full load (80-82C). That is in my dorm room and its really hot because its so small and I have many things running creating heat. I don't have this problem when I use my pc at a friend's house, because the ambient temp is unusually high here, even during winter.


Agree with LazarusIV, I am suspecting your CPU cooler first - what do you have there currently?

Three suggestions (I have both the Define S and Nano S and they have their thermal quirks):
1. First I would see what removing the last moduvent at the back would do. If it works, the second point may work well too.
2. Secondly then, I would move the bottom fan to the rear. That way you guarantee that no heat will stick around your cpu cooler and create a more directed airflow.

3. Finally since you run with intake only aka positive pressure in the Define S.. you will have hot air being pushed+sucked back into the front, rather than taking in fresh air only. The air goes through the drive area and through the side holes (path of least resistance / most pressure differential) back to your fans. Consider using electric tape to close that up. Also close up any space above or below your fans that offer a direct route for the air to circulate - those things are all easier than pushing the air out the back!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I use 3 in front and 1 at the bottom, all at the lowest rpm. I got no exhaust fan atm. So you recommend the F140MP instead? Is it just as quiet or should I use no exhaust fan at all?
> 
> my temps are good except for the GPU under full load (80-82C). That is in my dorm room and its really hot because its so small and I have many things running creating heat. I don't have this problem when I use my pc at a friend's house, because the ambient temp is unusually high here, even during winter.
> 
> Just a reminder that the Define S does not have the "grill" next to the pci-e slots. I got some GELID expansion slot covers I could use, but I don't know if I should or if it would make a difference.


If you have another fan, try using as back exhaust and see if it helps your temps.

How much different is dorm room temp from friend's house? You should see about 1c warmer component temp for every 1c warmer room is. If you are seeing more than that it is likely something else causing the component temperature increase .. like where your put your case in dorm room versus at friend's place.

Removing the PCIe back slot covers will triple the airflow area. This will improve airflow around GPU.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *44TZL*
> 
> Agree with LazarusIV, I am suspecting your CPU cooler first - what do you have there currently?
> 
> Three suggestions (I have both the Define S and Nano S and they have their thermal quirks):
> 1. First I would see what removing the last moduvent at the back would do. If it works, the second point may work well too.
> 2. Secondly then, I would move the bottom fan to the rear. That way you guarantee that no heat will stick around your cpu cooler and create a more directed airflow.
> 
> 3. Finally since you run with intake only aka positive pressure in the Define S.. you will have hot air being pushed+sucked back into the front, rather than taking in fresh air only. The air goes through the drive area and through the side holes (path of least resistance / most pressure differential) back to your fans. Consider using electric tape to close that up. Also close up any space above or below your fans that offer a direct route for the air to circulate - those things are all easier than pushing the air out the back!


I got a Scythe Kotetsu, but my CPU temps are fine, since its delidded.. So its around 60C max during full load.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you have another fan, try using as back exhaust and see if it helps your temps.
> 
> How much different is dorm room temp from friend's house? You should see about 1c warmer component temp for every 1c warmer room is. If you are seeing more than that it is likely something else causing the component temperature increase .. like where your put your case in dorm room versus at friend's place.
> 
> Removing the PCIe back slot covers will triple the airflow area. This will improve airflow around GPU.


I will try removing a PCIe bracket. If not I can always remove them all... or use the GELID expansion slot covers since it seems to provide more airflow. However, I am a bit worried about dust if I don't use anything at all.

I don't have the exact temp, but everyone who I invite tells me my room is hot and it definitely is. It has poor airflow too. I would say its definitely 5C more than it should be.

Should I remove the bottom fan and use it as an exhaust fan? or just add another one? I do have the GP14 that came with my case but its so bad... Like really bad.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I got a Scythe Kotetsu, but my CPU temps are fine, since its delidded.. So its around 60C max during full load.
> I will try removing a PCIe bracket. If not I can always remove them all... or use the GELID expansion slot covers since it seems to provide more airflow. However, I am a bit worried about dust if I don't use anything at all.
> 
> I don't have the exact temp, but everyone who I invite tells me my room is hot and it definitely is. It has poor airflow too. I would say its definitely 5C more than it should be.
> 
> Should I remove the bottom fan and use it as an exhaust fan? or just add another one? I do have the GP14 that came with my case but its so bad... Like really bad.


I've found that bottom intakes really don't do anything for temps... I bet if you took that out and just left the front intakes, your temps wouldn't really change much, if at all. I agree with doyll, put the bottom intake fan up in the rear exhaust position and take out 1 PCI slot cover. I'd also leave all of your top ModuVents installed. Leaving them open does nothing except increase the noise of the system. Front-to-back airflow is phenomenal in this case!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I will try removing a PCIe bracket. If not I can always remove them all... or use the GELID expansion slot covers since it seems to provide more airflow. However, I am a bit worried about dust if I don't use anything at all.
> 
> I don't have the exact temp, but everyone who I invite tells me my room is hot and it definitely is. It has poor airflow too. I would say its definitely 5C more than it should be.
> 
> Should I remove the bottom fan and use it as an exhaust fan? or just add another one? I do have the GP14 that came with my case but its so bad... Like really bad.


No covers will give at least 30% more airflow than any vented cover will Usually 50-70% more.

Smoke test (incense stick or sicgarette) the airflow direction and see if it sucks smoke in when GPU is working hard. Then you will know if air is going in or out.

Have you tried raising the case up with blocks under it's feet? Something like kids play blocks, spray can caps, even bottle caps will raise case 20-40mm and this dramatically improves airflow to bottom vents.


----------



## MasterBash

I decided to remove all PCI-E slot covers and I get like 1C less at best. I just think its the poor airflow and high temp of my dorm room. With side panel off I get 79C instead of 82C.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I decided to remove all PCI-E slot covers and I get like 1C less at best. I just think its the poor airflow and high temp of my dorm room. With side panel off I get 79C instead of 82C.


I often see systems that have proper airflow run hotter with side cover off.







Where odes case set in dorm room?


----------



## MasterBash

on the inside of my computer desk on the floor. there is like 15cm between the back of my computer case and my desk's back panel. My dorm room is very small so I don't see where else I could put it. The temp issues is only here, nowhere else.

I did not try to install the bottom fan as my rear exhaust fan as its aiming directly at my GPU... Maybe I should...


----------



## Metalhead79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Let us know how the new fans work out!


Had the PH-140MP's for a couple days and I love them. They are so, so quiet. I've checked a few times to make sure they're spinning.

I went with two for front intake. I'm so pleased with them, I'm planning to get another for the side intake.


----------



## MasterBash

How do they compare to the F140XP? They are better for filters, but are they noisier or what?


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metalhead79*
> 
> Had the PH-140MP's for a couple days and I love them. They are so, so quiet. I've checked a few times to make sure they're spinning.
> 
> I went with two for front intake. I'm so pleased with them, I'm planning to get another for the side intake.


Dude, awesome! Congrats, I had the same experience. Filled up the front and back with the XPs... wife turns on the computer, hits the button 3 times cuz she thinks it didn't turn on. Ultra quiet fans that move a good amount of air!

Glad you like 'em and glad I could help!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> How do they compare to the F140XP? They are better for filters, but are they noisier or what?


The XP has a lower RPM ceiling, up to 1300RPM. The MP's RPM ceiling is 1600RPM. The lowest RPM for the XP is 600 ± 250RPM and for the MP it's 500 ± 250RPM so they're pretty close on the low end.


----------



## MasterBash

I won't buy one just yet, but if they are slightly better than the F140XP, I might try out one as an exhaust fan, just to test things out.


----------



## Metalhead79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Dude, awesome! Congrats, I had the same experience. Filled up the front and back with the XPs... wife turns on the computer, hits the button 3 times cuz she thinks it didn't turn on. Ultra quiet fans that move a good amount of air!
> 
> Glad you like 'em and glad I could help!


Ha, yeah. I hate noise. I want a computer that is dead silent under load....whlie being overclocked to the hilt.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I won't buy one just yet, but if they are slightly better than the F140XP, I might try out one as an exhaust fan, just to test things out.


Better isn't quite the term I'd use... It all depends on what use-case you have in mind:

If you're looking to move some air and you need the oomph to get through a rad / filter / obstructions then get the MP series. With the higher RPM it'll have more power to overcome resistance. You'll also have more flexibility

If you're looking to maximize silence over everything or you just need 2 or 3 case intake fans, get the XP series. It'll keep your noise levels low and still move a good amount of air, even through a filter.

^ This second one is my scenario, I needed quiet fans that would feed my air-cooled GPU and CPU and all they have to overcome is my intake filter. It all depends on what you need!

All of that said, I don't think you need additional fans. Switch your bottom intake to rear exhaust, you've got your 3 front intake, remove 1 PCI slot cover under your graphics card, keep all your ModuVent covers installed in the top. That's your recipe for fantastic case cooling. Then all you do is tweak your fan profiles with your mobo. Boom, you're done.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metalhead79*
> 
> Ha, yeah. I hate noise. I want a computer that is dead silent under load....whlie being overclocked to the hilt.


Perfect, then you found the perfect fans! Well, until Thermalright brings their square series of fans to NA, I can't wait to get my hands on some of them. I recently ordered my AM4 bracket from Thermalright and asked them to throw a couple square fans in with it but I don't think it'll work seeing as dude laughed at me.


----------



## Metalhead79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Perfect, then you found the perfect fans! Well, until Thermalright brings their square series of fans to NA, I can't wait to get my hands on some of them. I recently ordered my AM4 bracket from Thermalright and asked them to throw a couple square fans in with it but I don't think it'll work seeing as dude laughed at me.


I've been a Thermalright fanboy since the original TRUE coolers came out. When I decided to get better case fans the first thing I did was check to see if Thermalright's squares were available in the US yet. I would have bought them without a second thought.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metalhead79*
> 
> I've been a Thermalright fanboy since the original TRUE coolers came out. When I decided to get better case fans the first thing I did was check to see if Thermalright's squares were available in the US yet. I would have bought them without a second thought.


Definitely, in a hot second! Grab 4, never look back. Make Thermalright hovercomputer.


----------



## TheBloodEagle

I'm checking out Thermalright fans right now and I'm really intrigued. I love orange ones because that's my fav color. But the blade designs and casing are interesting; especially the TY-127 with vented sides. I'd think that makes pressure worse, no? The fan blades on the TY-127 aren't as curved so seems like it would be good for pure airflow though.


----------



## dwolvin

Which fan? I ran over to their site but don't see what you are talking about...


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Here's the link to it: http://thermalright.com/product/ty-127/


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBloodEagle*
> 
> I'm checking out Thermalright fans right now and I'm really intrigued. I love orange ones because that's my fav color. But the blade designs and casing are interesting; especially the TY-127 with vented sides. I'd think that makes pressure worse, no? The fan blades on the TY-127 aren't as curved so seems like it would be good for pure airflow though.


They work very well for airlfow on coolers and cases. I have not tried them on radiators. Will try and do that in a few weeks. If I don't post up the results within a month, remind me..


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Gotcha, no worries, just wanted to clarify!
> 
> I have the XP which have a lower RPM limit than the MP versions. I also have the Define S which has a very similar front to the R5 (might be the exact same, not sure). I am very happy with the fans I've got, so if you want to make sure you get plenty of airflow into the front I think the MP versions are a perfect choice!


I was impatient to share the outcome of mounting two PH-140MP on my R5 but instead i ordered two TY-143 PWM









I´m waiting for confirmation regarding the stock but if they say they don´t have them, i´ll bu putting the Phanteks. The Thermalright are a bit cheaper and they have nice reputation as well.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> I was impatient to share the outcome of mounting two PH-140MP on my R5 but instead i ordered two TY-143 PWM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I´m waiting for confirmation regarding the stock but if they say they don´t have them, i´ll bu putting the Phanteks. The Thermalright are a bit cheaper and they have nice reputation as well.


Oh no problem, Thermalright have phenomenal fans, if the square versions they just came out with were available in the States, I'd get those hands down.

I'm curious to see how well you can mount those TY-143s since they don't have a square frame. Pics!


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Oh no problem, Thermalright have phenomenal fans, if the square versions they just came out with were available in the States, I'd get those hands down.
> 
> I'm curious to see how well you can mount those TY-143s since they don't have a square frame. Pics!


Unfortunately, the ones I ordered are not squared, but the rounded version.

I am having this trouble about Thermalright because i´ve been getting great feedback around here, like PH-140MP. But TY-143 cost a bit less, which is good as i´m on a low budget.

One thing though, their color isn´t the best... Orange









But for front intakes covered with the case door and a dust filter it´s alright.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> Unfortunately, the ones I ordered are not squared, but the rounded version.
> 
> I am having this trouble about Thermalright because i´ve been getting great feedback around here, like PH-140MP. But TY-143 cost a bit less, which is good as i´m on a low budget.
> 
> One thing though, their color isn´t the best... Orange
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for front intakes covered with the case door and a dust filter it´s alright.


One thing about the TY-143 fans, they are fantastic, Thermalright makes great stuff, but their upper RPM limit is 2500RPM. They move crap-tons of air but they are very noisy because of it. Relatively, they are not as noisy as other fans that move that much air, but they're still noisier than a 1600 or 1300RPM fan.

You're in Portugal, so I'd see if you can get their square versions which are extremely well reviewed on thermalbench.com. If you can limit the RPMs of the TY-143 with your mobo or you just don't care about noise, I think you'll enjoy the experience! I've considered getting one myself for the Le Grand Macho I've got


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> One thing about the TY-143 fans, they are fantastic, Thermalright makes great stuff, but their upper RPM limit is 2500RPM. They move crap-tons of air but they are very noisy because of it. Relatively, they are not as noisy as other fans that move that much air, but they're still noisier than a 1600 or 1300RPM fan.
> 
> You're in Portugal, so I'd see if you can get their square versions which are extremely well reviewed on thermalbench.com. If you can limit the RPMs of the TY-143 with your mobo or you just don't care about noise, I think you'll enjoy the experience! I've considered getting one myself for the Le Grand Macho I've got


I ordered them with the high speed in mind, in this order i´ll get a Phobya Y-cable 4Pin PWM to 3x 4Pin PWM 60cm and a E.K. Vardar F4ER for the CPU heatsink. I´ll connect both the TY at one CPU fan header and the Vardar on the other so that i can regulate their speed.

If only you know the trouble I had about TY fans over here... Many e-mails sent and received, a lot of research regarding PT and ES shops... Even on France and Germany it is very tricky to find them. And yet i may not be able to buy them, as the supplier for PT may not have them.

Which fan did you put on your Macho?


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> I ordered them with the high speed in mind, in this order i´ll get a Phobya Y-cable 4Pin PWM to 3x 4Pin PWM 60cm and a E.K. Vardar F4ER for the CPU heatsink. I´ll connect both the TY at one CPU fan header and the Vardar on the other so that i can regulate their speed.
> 
> If only you know the trouble I had about TY fans over here... Many e-mails sent and received, a lot of research regarding PT and ES shops... Even on France and Germany it is very tricky to find them. And yet i may not be able to buy them, as the supplier for PT may not have them.
> 
> Which fan did you put on your Macho?


Right now I've got the stock TY-147B on it, really great fan with good noise profile. I'm considering grabbing 2 x TY-143 and a PWM splitter and using one on the LGM and one as the exhaust fan, effectively giving me a push-pull setup on that heatsink. Then I can still use my PWM hub for my case fans and put the 2 x TY-143 on the splitter connected to my CPU_FAN.

I've also got an opportunity to get square Thermalrights shipped to me... so I might grab 3 TY-143 SQ and use 'em with the round ones and have a hovercraft


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Right now I've got the stock TY-147B on it, really great fan with good noise profile. I'm considering grabbing 2 x TY-143 and a PWM splitter and using one on the LGM and one as the exhaust fan, effectively giving me a push-pull setup on that heatsink. Then I can still use my PWM hub for my case fans and put the 2 x TY-143 on the splitter connected to my CPU_FAN.
> 
> I've also got an opportunity to get square Thermalrights shipped to me... so I might grab 3 TY-143 SQ and use 'em with the round ones and have a hovercraft


Sounds like a good setup! Gotta love PWM









I´m eager to try them i can tell you that!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> Unfortunately, the ones I ordered are not squared, but the rounded version.
> 
> I am having this trouble about Thermalright because i´ve been getting great feedback around here, like PH-140MP. But TY-143 cost a bit less, which is good as i´m on a low budget.
> 
> One thing though, their color isn´t the best... Orange
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for front intakes covered with the case door and a dust filter it´s alright.


I have squares a bunch of TY-14x fans over the years.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23389814

Also make square adapter for radiator use
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23207921


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serralha*
> 
> Sounds like a good setup! Gotta love PWM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I´m eager to try them i can tell you that!


I'll be glad to see your results!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I have squares a bunch of TY-14x fans over the years.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23389814
> 
> Also make square adapter for radiator use
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23207921


Hey man! So it seems like I've gotten a contact at Thermalright when ordering my AM4 bracket... so I'm going to try to score some square TY fans that aren't otherwise available in the US.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LazarusIV*
> 
> Hey man! So it seems like I've gotten a contact at Thermalright when ordering my AM4 bracket... so I'm going to try to score some square TY fans that aren't otherwise available in the US.


Good Luck!
Nan's Gaming Gear is really dropping the ball by not stocking the TY-147A SQ and TY-143 SQ. If you can't get some let me know and I"ll try and sort you out with a couple of them.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Good Luck!
> Nan's Gaming Gear is really dropping the ball by not stocking the TY-147A SQ and TY-143 SQ. If you can't get some let me know and I"ll try and sort you out with a couple of them.


Awesome, thank you! Shipping from Taiwan can take a bit (Not sure when my AM4 bracket will show up) but if the price is right this is a great opportunity!


----------



## AyyMD

I'd kill for TY-143sqs in America, they're like my dream fan. I know ehume was giving them away, but that's across the country from me.


----------



## serralha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyyMD*
> 
> I'd kill for TY-143sqs in America, they're like my dream fan. I know ehume was giving them away, but that's across the country from me.


Have you tried the round ones?


----------



## paskowitz

Just wanted to say I'm pretty impressed with the 6 Corsair ML 120s on my HWL GTR 360. For what is a very restrictive rad, they push air through pretty well, while not sound awful. The LED lights are awful though. Barely any illumination. Photos make them look much brighter than they really are.


----------



## Smanci

Any input on Arctic F12 Pro PWM? Those are 120x38mm. I'm just looking to replace my one and only case fan, a Slip Stream that ticks. Not looking for more performance but not really less either - just if there's something I should be aware of.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smanci*
> 
> Any input on Arctic F12 Pro PWM? Those are 120x38mm. I'm just looking to replace my one and only case fan, a Slip Stream that ticks. Not looking for more performance but not really less either - just if there's something I should be aware of.


I have used quite a few of the Arctic F series fan with good results. Obviously they are not the best, but here they are usually about half the price of comparable fans. Mostly I use the Arctic F9 TC or F12 TC .. they have their own temperature probe to regulate rpm base on temp.


----------



## RadActiveLobstr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smanci*
> 
> Any input on Arctic F12 Pro PWM? Those are 120x38mm. I'm just looking to replace my one and only case fan, a Slip Stream that ticks. Not looking for more performance but not really less either - just if there's something I should be aware of.


I'm using the Arctic F12 PWM PST in my case and they seem to be doing the job rather well. I imagine the Pro version is just slightly better than these.

Not a fan of the colored cables though but for basically $4 a fan (there is a 5 pack on Amazon that bounces between $23-25) you can't beat them for their price. The Pro is a bit more expensive and doesn't appear to come in a multi-pack but still looks good for the price.

6 year warranty on them as well.


----------



## Luckbad

Just replaced my stock NZXT Kraken X61 fans with Noctua NF-A14 Industrial PPC-2000.

99% chance they'll go back.

Anything over 40% or so speed makes them annoyingly high pitched. The volume isn't so bad even up to 50-60% fan speed, but that high pitched sound just cuts right through and becomes audible in headphones.

Should I avoid Noctua fans entirely? Do they all do that annoying high pitched thing when used for a radiator?

I'm trying to find a solid static pressure fan that is also quieter than the stock Kraken fan.


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Is the pitch from air moving or the motor hub? Could be air leakage if from the air moving ("whistling"). Maybe a rubber gasket between the rad and fan would help.


----------



## Luckbad

Edit: Update a couple posts below.

It's not whistling, it's like a vacuum sound. Now turbulent at all, very constant. High pitched maybe isn't the right description. More like a vacuum or hair dryerIt _think_ it is the sound of the motor.

This isn't a great recording, but I start stepping it up from 30% on up to 100%.

http://www.basshead.club/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/noctua.m4a


----------



## MasterBash

If I replace my Scythe Kotetsu for a NH-D15s, would that reduce my GPU temp since it will have more space between the heatsink and gpu or that wont matter at all?

I didn't add an exhaust fan yet, but I will try that tonight. I will definitely clean my computer of dust too, tonight. Since I am not longer in my dorm room, my GPU temp is 5C lower but its still around 76C, I would prefer even lower.


----------



## Luckbad

I changed out a few fans other than my new Noctua AF-14 industrial 2000 rpm fans. The Noctuas were making crazy bad noises and I already ordered some replacements.

The act of changing out a few existing fans and how things were hooked up just a bit... made the Noctuas stop being super loud.

Like, night and day different. Now the noise is exactly what I'd expect. The noise of air being pushed through fans.

Welp, holy crap, these are incredible fans!

I'm wondering if I was overtaxing the NZXT Kraken x61's fan hookup. I had an extra fan connected to it that is no longer connected.

I also forgot I'd made my rear fan pull air in instead of pushing out as an experiment, so that could have been an issue too (though the Kraken radiator is an entire 140mm fan space from the rear).

Yeah, as long as these keep making the noise they are making, they totally hold up to the hype.

I was so utterly disappointed in these fans when I got them. Thought everyone was on something.


----------



## madmeatballs

@kevindd992002


----------



## Luckbad

NZXT Kraken x61, Noctua AF-14 industrial 2000 rpm fans vs Cougar Vortex CFV14HP

Standard use, the Cougar fans are a bit quieter and about the same temperature.

If you overclock and bench, the Noctua pull ahead because they keep getting faster with more and more static pressure well after the Cougar.

I love Cougar fans and will find a place for one or two of them, but the Noctua fans are staying on my radiator.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> If I replace my Scythe Kotetsu for a NH-D15s, would that reduce my GPU temp since it will have more space between the heatsink and gpu or that wont matter at all?


Anyone?

Keep in mind I also added a Samsung 960 evo right above the GPU in the M.2 slot on my Maximus VII Hero, so I dunno if the temps would be lower with the extra space the NH-D15s would provide between the GPU and heatsink.


----------



## dwolvin

Are you talking about swapping the CPU heatsink fan? If so, I can't imagine it will have any effect on the GPU.


----------



## MasterBash

No, the CPU heatsink, not the fan, because if I switch from the Scythe Kotetsu to the NH-D15s, there will more space between the GPU and the CPU heatsink and more space for the m.2 to breath. I believe because my Kotetsu goes over the M.2 slot too, so it might restrict the airflow... but I dont know.

I might be wrong, but I dont know. I just thought leaving more space between the GPU and the CPU heatsink would yield a small temp decrease.


----------



## dwolvin

very small. probably not measurable, unless there is little case airflow.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> Keep in mind I also added a Samsung 960 evo right above the GPU in the M.2 slot on my Maximus VII Hero, so I dunno if the temps would be lower with the extra space the NH-D15s would provide between the GPU and heatsink.


It is unlikey to change GPU temps. You might find "Ways to Better Cooler" linked in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topics to see them .. 5th is a good place to start.

Edit: As dwolvin GPU temps will change only if case airflow changes.


----------



## czin125

You can find a Nidec D1225C12B7ZP-62 on taobao. It looks like a GT fan with an extra ring around the blades ( also found on AMD's Fury X ). How would that one perform vs a normal GT fan at similar rpm?


----------



## Smanci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> You can find a Nidec D1225C12B7ZP-62 on taobao. It looks like a GT fan with an extra ring around the blades ( also found on AMD's Fury X ). How would that one perform vs a normal GT fan at similar rpm?


That's a high speed variant of the GT.


----------



## serralha

So, after almost one month after ordering some fans, they arrived yesterday.

I´ll leave some pics below... I have to say that I´m a bit eager to see if they can do a good job. I had my rig idling at 30º ish with 25º ambient and on load about 55º...

Still have to remove the PCI-e covers and clean the dust filters.

I was trying to balance things a bit, between exhaust and intake fans. Something like two on front and one on the bottom as intake and one on the back and two on top as exhaust. Let's how it goes.



The CPU cooler with it´s stock which it will be replaced with a EKWB Vardar F4


The front of the case with a Fractal stock fan. I´ll try to put the two TY-143 in here...


There she is, tight fit but worth it i hope


The Vardar in place


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Did you guys see Silverstone's new-ish THICCCCC 140mmx_38mm_ fan?

SILVERSTONE FHP141-VF




*
http://www.dvtests.com/silverstone-fhp141-vf-test-and-review*
Quote:


> At the last test conducted at 12V sharp, FHP141-VF reached its supreme cooling performance, which was *revolutions per minute count of 2115 and airflow level of 212.64 cubic metres per hour*. Through the last test the generated noise was just huge. The fan was roaring like a beast.


Would be an insane rad fan.


----------



## AyyMD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBloodEagle*
> 
> Did you guys see Silverstone new-ish THICCCCC 140mmx38mm fan?
> 
> SILVERSTONE FHP141-VF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> http://www.dvtests.com/silverstone-fhp141-vf-test-and-review*
> Would be an insane rad fan.


hmm, maybe i'll get it for my evolv.


----------



## doyll

Does the DVtest fan testing station look like it makes fans perform like we use our fans? I don't think so .. it's nothing but a fan stand in an open room .. meaning results of it's testing have little to no relevance to us.



Here is Silverstone specifications of new SST-FHP141-VF compared ot older SST-FHP141. Seems to have same basic performance as older model with reverse flow added with a different impeller blade design for reversing flow.


Here is blade compariosn


I need to get a couple and test them.


----------



## Ceadderman

Mount a radiator for testing?









~Ceadder


----------



## czin125

Would you test them with the VF in the back of the radiator and a normal one in the front? and then vs two VFs and vs two normal ones?


----------



## Mads1

Nice thread, im still in two minds to do away with my varders for my current build in progress and get some corsair ml120pro white Leds, just means paying out more money so not sure.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mads1*
> 
> Nice thread, im still in two minds to do away with my varders for my current build in progress and get some corsair ml120pro white Leds, just means paying out more money so not sure.


In two words, 'why change'?


----------



## Cyclops

This thing is still alive, eh.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> This thing is still alive, eh.


As are you, it seems.









As long as there's air to disturb, this thread will disturb the users' choices to swoosh it around.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> As are you, it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as there's air to disturb, this thread will disturb the users' choices to swoosh it around.


Per usual, your word-play titillates me cat.


----------



## coccosoids

Could someone suggest a realistic replacement for three EK Vardars F3 120s to be used with a slim radiator, please?!

By realistic I mean both quieter as well as something that is generally available on the market (not those super exotic Gentle Typhoons I keep reading about everywhere).


----------



## Melcar

Having a hard time deciding on new fans. Choices are NF-A14 IPPC 2000 or PH-F140MP (it's what I can get down here). Plan to get three for intakes. Normally I would just go for the higher speed Noctuas, but what concerns me is that I have been reading that they have audible motor noise even at low speeds. I don't mind loud fans when they go full blast, but ticking and humming fans at low speed tick me off.
I have a pair of TY-143s on my NH-D15, so my rig is not silent at full load, but those fans are fairly quiet when the system goes to idle, with no noticeable clicks, ticks or hums. So I would like to keep a "quiet" idle case if I can.


----------



## Ceadderman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Could someone suggest a realistic replacement for three EK Vardars F3 120s to be used with a slim radiator, please?!
> 
> By realistic I mean both quieter as well as something that is generally available on the market (not those super exotic Gentle Typhoons I keep reading about everywhere).


*Vardars or Dark Side GTs can be sourced at Performance-PCs.com for ~$20 each. Apply OCN55 in your cart and the shipping cost is pretty reasonable.*









~Ceadder


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Could someone suggest a realistic replacement for three EK Vardars F3 120s to be used with a slim radiator, please?!
> 
> By realistic I mean both quieter as well as something that is generally available on the market (not those super exotic Gentle Typhoons I keep reading about everywhere).


Phanteks PH-F120MP maybe, but honestly the Vardar F3 is considered a good fan. Why are you asking about replacing them?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> Having a hard time deciding on new fans. Choices are NF-A14 IPPC 2000 or PH-F140MP (it's what I can get down here). Plan to get three for intakes. Normally I would just go for the higher speed Noctuas, but what concerns me is that I have been reading that they have audible motor noise even at low speeds. I don't mind loud fans when they go full blast, but ticking and humming fans at low speed tick me off.
> I have a pair of TY-143s on my NH-D15, so my rig is not silent at full load, but those fans are fairly quiet when the system goes to idle, with no noticeable clicks, ticks or hums. So I would like to keep a "quiet" idle case if I can.


Can you get more TY-143 fans and use them? If you need square it is not too hard to cut the round sides flat to be 141x141mm. Then make an adapter plate like this. http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23207921


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Phanteks PH-F120MP maybe, but honestly the Vardar F3 is considered a good fan. Why are you asking about replacing them?
> Can you get more TY-143 fans and use them? If you need square it is not too hard to cut the round sides flat to be 141x141mm. Then make an adapter plate like this. http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23207921


They are very loud even at low rpms... I don't have a reading but at ~20% they are unbearable in the evenings. I have 3 of them on a slim radiator mounted in the front, pull config in a FD Define S and they are just too loud. Idle temps in the high 40s.
I'm going to look that up but I have a feeling they might be hard to come by in Europe.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> They are very loud even at low rpms... I don't have a reading but at ~20% they are unbearable in the evenings. I have 3 of them on a slim radiator mounted in the front, pull config in a FD Define S and they are just too loud. Idle temps in the high 40s.
> I'm going to look that up but I have a feeling they might be hard to come by in Europe.


Do temps and noise improve if you open front of case? This lowers airflow resistance significantly. I assume your front filter is clean. What do you have for case exhaust? Our cases need at least as much exhaust vent area as intake fan area. I usually use about 1.3-1.5 times as much exhaust vent area as intake fan area. You might find 5th topic in "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig of interest. It's about case airflow more specific to air cooled systems, but the basics are the same.


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Can you get more TY-143 fans and use them? If you need square it is not too hard to cut the round sides flat to be 141x141mm. Then make an adapter plate like this. http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/20_20#post_23207921


Unfortunately no. Amazon does not have them and my go to place for importing from the States (performancepcs) does not stock Thermalright products. The only other place that can import the fans for me charges about double, and that is before taxes and shipping.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Do temps and noise improve if you open front of case? This lowers airflow resistance significantly. I assume your front filter is clean. What do you have for case exhaust? Our cases need at least as much exhaust vent area as intake fan area. I usually use about 1.3-1.5 times as much exhaust vent area as intake fan area. You might find 5th topic in "Ways to Better Cooling" link in my sig of interest. It's about case airflow more specific to air cooled systems, but the basics are the same.


I will definitely give that a read when I get home. What I don't understand though is why would you put... or let me understand this - 'area' as in surface area? So if one has 3x120mm intake in your opinion one should have 1.5x3x120mm exhaust? That's interesting. At the moment I have the standard fan that came with the case, I think it's a 140mm fan as exhaust as well as 1 moduvent slightly opened. That, as well as all the expansion slot grills (not sure of the exact term for them) in the back with cutouts, having only 1 gpu installed - which I should mention is also a blower, exhausting air out.
I actually cut the speed of the case exhaust fan in the back because I was having a feeling I was not getting enough pos. pressure in the case.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I will definitely give that a read when I get home. What I don't understand though is why would you put... or let me understand this - 'area' as in surface area? So if one has 3x120mm intake in your opinion one should have 1.5x3x120mm exhaust? That's interesting. At the moment I have the standard fan that came with the case, I think it's a 140mm fan as exhaust as well as 1 moduvent slightly opened. That, as well as all the expansion slot grills (not sure of the exact term for them) in the back with cutouts, having only 1 gpu installed - which I should mention is also a blower, exhausting air out.
> I actually cut the speed of the case exhaust fan in the back because I was having a feeling I was not getting enough pos. pressure in the case.


Just to clarify, that is only the open area air can flow through, not the number of fans flowing air. For example if I have 2x 140mm intake fans I want 3x 140mm exhaust vents for air to flow out of case. This usually means there is no need for exhaust fans because intake fans have a high enough pressure rating to overcome the resistance created by intake vent grills and filters as well as the rear vent grills. Exhaust venting will be like 1x 140mm back vent, and all unused (usually 3 or 6 PCIe back slot covers removed with other venting area by the PCIe slot covers. I also rarely use the motherboard back I/O cover because the mobo I/O connections only block aobut half of the area of opening and leaving the other half open allows more airflow over vrm and other chips on motherboard around the CPU cooler. Removing the PCIe slot covers at least doubles airflow through them.







Grills are quite restrictive, especially front grills. But even these hex grills are dropping airflow by 10-30%
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/10#post_22657923

Here is back view of Enthoo Pro / Luxe (case case chassis) with pink line around areas of airflow. You can see it is quite a large area. 

You might need an exhaust fan behind CPU, but case only comes with 2x fans, so try them and see.









Here is link to what removing vent grills on bottom and back does.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/40#post_23754692

Here is how to modify bottom filters into a single slide out the front filter
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data/60#post_23772496


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Whoops, meant to post this here, since it seems better fitting.

Anandtech posted their 140mm Slim Tower reviews yesterday:


----------



## dlewbell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBloodEagle*
> 
> Whoops, meant to post this here, since it seems better fitting.
> 
> Anandtech posted their 140mm Slim Tower reviews yesterday: *http://images.anandtech.com/doci/11407/140mmcoolers_678x452.jpg*


Here's the link to the actual article. http://www.anandtech.com/show/11407/140-mm-slim-tower-cpu-cooler-roundup


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlewbell*
> 
> Here's the link to the actual article. http://www.anandtech.com/show/11407/140-mm-slim-tower-cpu-cooler-roundup


Whoops, didn't realize I didn't link it.


----------



## Gen Patton

I take it these are for case fan's? Not for Radiators and the front these are for exhaust??


----------



## amd955be5670

Was wondering if you could cover any of the new CoolMaster MasterFan series. I have the upgrade itch. I want to mitigate this itch by increasing aesthetics instead. Just wondering if this is the right choice.

Models like the Air Pressure one boast 4.6mm for 120mm and 5.28mm for the 140mm. Just wondering how that translates into cooling performance. I could use even a new fan for the PSU. Interesting, my fan in the PSU is a 5000rpm mammoth 120mm. I should experiment with my hyper 212, for science


----------



## Ceadderman

If it's from Cooler Master don't expect much in the way of performance. I loved there 200/230s but their 120 and 140 fans are simply case fans at best.

There are many other fans on the market that simply outperform a Cooler Master sleeved bearing fan.

I too would like to see them tested if for no other reason than to confirm my stance on CM fans.









~Ceadder


----------



## Gen Patton

I think I am going to stick with cosair fans the RGB ones.


----------



## Melcar

CM fans are not that great for the price. Thermalbench did a test a while ago on some of them and they where louder than competing fans and not that much better in terms of raw performance. Get some Phanteks fans (MP series) if you want a good budget fan or Corsair ML fans if you want something with more muscle.


----------



## amd955be5670

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> CM fans are not that great for the price. Thermalbench did a test a while ago on some of them and they where louder than competing fans and not that much better in terms of raw performance. Get some Phanteks fans (MP series) if you want a good budget fan or Corsair ML fans if you want something with more muscle.


Would these be the new MasterFan series?

The spec sheet seems really ... hypnotic?


----------



## Luckbad

Even the specs on the MasterFan Pro fans just look okay. You'd be better off with Cougar or Phanteks if you want to go quiet.


----------



## amd955be5670

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luckbad*
> 
> Even the specs on the MasterFan Pro fans just look okay. You'd be better off with Cougar or Phanteks if you want to go quiet.


I feel the price to get performance and low noise in the same sentence is not worth it. I would rather go with performance only. Things like the ceiling fan, fridge from a cut-off, children crying on floors above and below at the top of their noise are much more pressing concerns if I was to be bothered by noise. I don't see myself shifting to a shrine/peaceful environment any time soon.

I think its rather sad, but even my workplace is a pigeon house. The one place you'd expect pin drop silence.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd955be5670*
> 
> I feel the price to get performance and low noise in the same sentence is not worth it. I would rather go with performance only. Things like the ceiling fan, fridge from a cut-off, children crying on floors above and below at the top of their noise are much more pressing concerns if I was to be bothered by noise. I don't see myself shifting to a shrine/peaceful environment any time soon.
> 
> I think its rather sad, but even my workplace is a pigeon house. The one place you'd expect pin drop silence.


I'm sorry your workplace is a pigeon house, but most of us want our fans to have good performance AND low noise .. and use fans that fulfill both of those requirements most of the time by controlling fan speed so they stay quiet unless system is working extremely hard in hot weather. Even then the fans are not loud.


----------



## amd955be5670

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'm sorry your workplace is a pigeon house, but most of us want our fans to have good performance AND low noise .. and use fans that fulfill both of those requirements most of the time by controlling fan speed so they stay quiet unless system is working extremely hard in hot weather. Even then the fans are not loud.


I didn't mean to speak on everyone's behalf (i.e. what everyone's purchase should be), but rather for my own self. I understand the silence many people desire, and infact achieve/experience thanks to their surroundings. Not a day would go by when I wouldn't want that for myself.

Hence, as per my original query, the specs on the new MasterFan series seem dank. Would like a benchmark to verify it. The performance, i.e.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd955be5670*
> 
> I didn't mean to speak on everyone's behalf (i.e. what everyone's purchase should be), but rather for my own self. I understand the silence many people desire, and infact achieve/experience thanks to their surroundings. Not a day would go by when I wouldn't want that for myself.
> 
> Hence, as per my original query, the specs on the new MasterFan series seem dank. Would like a benchmark to verify it. The performance, i.e.


I generally pay littel attention to factory specifications. I often use Thermalbench (OCN user geggeg is Thermalbench) reviews for airflow and sound level references. According to his testing the 120 AB is not so good and 120 AP is better
"As a radiator fan, and on a radiator with average restriction to airflow, the MasterFan Pro AB disappoints. It is louder than average, performs worse than average and thus comes in among the worse fans tested so far, which does include some very good fans. The MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure easily outperforms the MasterFan Pro Air Balance in this particular testing methodology, and so the jack of all trades is showing itself to be a master of none indeed."

AB gets a 75% rating .. 10% lower than his usual 85% rating. AP scores 85% which is on par with other top fans, but keep in mind much of this is because 120 AP is lower priced than other top fans.

CM MasterFan Pro 120 AF
http://thermalbench.com/2016/09/06/cooler-master-masterfan-pro-120-air-balance/3/

CM MasterFan Pro 120 AP
http://thermalbench.com/2016/08/30/cooler-master-masterfan-pro-120-air-pressure/3/

The CM MasterFAn Pro 140 AP is .. well to put it kindly not a great performer. I'm surprised geggeg gave it 80% rating, but he does point out it is not in the top group of fans.








http://thermalbench.com/2016/09/20/cooler-master-masterfan-pro-140-air-pressure/3/


----------



## VSG

80% because of the 3 speed range options, you have no idea how many people love that. CM is pretty happy about the fan too although I am still confused why they ditched the square frame from the Silencio FP.


----------



## Melcar

All of CMs fans are loud. I guess you can consider them consistent on that. The last good fan I used from them was the old Blade Master. There are better fans for the price out there.


----------



## Melcar

So I just received my new PH-F140MPs. I'm sorry, but these things hum. It's VERY apparent at full rpm. All three fans do it. Bad batch? I'm a bit disappointed (that coupled with the fact that Amazon send me the wrong color LED strip for my case







). Not a good weekend so far. They do move air despite the case and Silverstone filters and are rather quiet at full blast, but that hum is disrupting. I mean, I don't mind noise (a pair of TY-143s are music to me), but this hum is like a whole different sound. And they do make weird noises when mounted horizontally.


----------



## coccosoids

Just reveived 2xCorsair ML120 twin packs... for some so called magnetic levitation fans... these things have *motor noise* at low rpms.

All 3 of them are connected via a 1x3 splitter to a pwm cpu fan header on my motherboard - X99 Taichi - if anyone has any experience with that.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Just reveived 2xCorsair ML120 twin packs... for some so called magnetic levitation fans... these things have *motor noise* at low rpms.
> 
> All 3 of them are connected via a 1x3 splitter to a pwm cpu fan header on my motherboard - X99 Taichi - if anyone has any experience with that.


The bearings are not the same as the motor, that's why? That said, what exactly is this "motor noise" you are hearing?


----------



## Luckbad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> So I just received my new PH-F140MPs. I'm sorry, but these things hum. It's VERY apparent at full rpm. All three fans do it. Bad batch? I'm a bit disappointed (that coupled with the fact that Amazon send me the wrong color LED strip for my case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Not a good weekend so far. They do move air despite the case and Silverstone filters and are rather quiet at full blast, but that hum is disrupting. I mean, I don't mind noise (a pair of TY-143s are music to me), but this hum is like a whole different sound. And they do make weird noises when mounted horizontally.


Do they hum outside the case or only when mounted?


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> The bearings are not the same as the motor, that's why? That said, what exactly is this "motor noise" you are hearing?


It sounds like clicky a GTX Founders Edition fan at low rpms, or 3 water pumps but deeper and muffled sounding... At low rpms it is very perceptible. I have my fans at ~600rpms for core idle temps of ~40-ish C and they are quite perceptible. I don't realize yet if I am being unrealistic in my expectations though, this is only my second model fans after the Vardars, and I must admit - at low rpms they are a massive improvement - however they do not seem like a quiet type fan to me. Ideally from a fan you would only get noise from the air movement.


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luckbad*
> 
> Do they hum outside the case or only when mounted?


Been testing them in free air. The hum is there, but is not as noticeable. The 120mm ones hum at all speeds, while on the 140mm it's only apparent at full rpm. Obviously the sound gets worse when you mount them.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> Been testing them in free air. The hum is there, but is not as noticeable. The 120mm ones hum at all speeds, while on the 140mm it's only apparent at full rpm. Obviously the sound gets worse when you mount them.


It may well be defective. But I do know motors sometimes hum on different power sources. Could you try it on a different PSU?


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> It may well be defective. But I do know motors sometimes hum on different power sources. Could you try it on a different PSU?


When I test fans in free air I do it with an old Ultra 300W unit. My rig has a CM SIlentPro M. Granted the sound is more noticeable when they are mounted inside the case. My experience with the PH-F120MP seems to mimic the one in SPCR, so I don't know. The Youtube sound tests from CoolingTechnique do not have this hum (or at least I don't hear it there).
Keeping the PH-F140MPs, since they only hum at full bore and they are hooked up to a powered PWM splitter cable (and they are nice and silent at <1000rpm). The 120mm I will stash away and figure out another use for it. I did have to cover up the entire top on the Enthoo Pro with heavy cardboard and foam to dampen the fan noises a bit and that seemed to work. Unfortunately that means no top intake anymore. Will have to ghetto mod a fan inside the 5.25" bay again and get some mesh covers.


----------



## amd955be5670

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I generally pay littel attention to factory specifications. I often use Thermalbench (OCN user geggeg is Thermalbench) reviews for airflow and sound level references. According to his testing the 120 AB is not so good and 120 AP is better
> "As a radiator fan, and on a radiator with average restriction to airflow, the MasterFan Pro AB disappoints. It is louder than average, performs worse than average and thus comes in among the worse fans tested so far, which does include some very good fans. The MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure easily outperforms the MasterFan Pro Air Balance in this particular testing methodology, and so the jack of all trades is showing itself to be a master of none indeed."
> 
> AB gets a 75% rating .. 10% lower than his usual 85% rating. AP scores 85% which is on par with other top fans, but keep in mind much of this is because 120 AP is lower priced than other top fans.
> 
> CM MasterFan Pro 120 AF
> http://thermalbench.com/2016/09/06/cooler-master-masterfan-pro-120-air-balance/3/
> 
> CM MasterFan Pro 120 AP
> http://thermalbench.com/2016/08/30/cooler-master-masterfan-pro-120-air-pressure/3/
> 
> The CM MasterFAn Pro 140 AP is .. well to put it kindly not a great performer. I'm surprised geggeg gave it 80% rating, but he does point out it is not in the top group of fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://thermalbench.com/2016/09/20/cooler-master-masterfan-pro-140-air-pressure/3/


Hey thanks man, just what I was looking for!

I'm in the market for a high performance airflow (140mm) fan atm, then will prioritize air pressure when my current intake/cpu fans fail. Since noise isn't a concern I thought I'd go with the highest spec CFM fan. But hey that doesn't mean I buy a 5000rpm factory grade fan


----------



## PontiacGTX

Do you think you could add to your testing the Slipstream DB


----------



## czin125

Should the 3000 rpm one @1850 rpm beat the AP-15 ( 1850 rpm ) ?

"Gentle Typhoon 120 mm High Speed Series is optimized for high speed as well as high airflow. an implemented ring connects the fan blades, creating PQ characteristics similar to 38 mm thickness fans, yet improving noise reduction. By employing a large fan motor, reduced fluctuation in rotation torque has been achieved. Furthermore, a vibration absorbing structure has been integrated to further reduce the noise level. "
"Implemented ring connects the fan blades creating PQ characteristics similar to 38 mm thickness fans, yet improving in regard to noise."
"Forceful airflow is being created and guided in a linear fashion thanks to the stabilizing ring implemented in the Gentle Typhoon 120 mm High Speed Fans. By using this powerful design the fans are able to generate high pressure to overcome and handle high resistance such as when being used with a duct or coolers with dense fin structure."


----------



## TheBloodEagle

Interesting new video on LTT:


----------



## doyll

Appears the talking head has gone all "My Little Pony" .. but he didn't have far to go.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

At least he is entertaining.


----------



## doyll

I find him revolting .. but to each their own.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

What a revolting development this is (brownie points for identifying who said this without looking it up).


----------



## dwolvin

I remember an aircraft mechanic, but not the show.


----------



## TheBloodEagle

I thought you'd enjoy it doyll.


----------



## Deedaz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I find him revolting .. but to each their own.


I couldn't stand Linus until I watched the WAN show a couple times and found his Channel Super Fun. It's my favorite youtube channel now


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deedaz*
> 
> I couldn't stand Linus until I watched the WAN show a couple times and found his Channel Super Fun. It's my favorite youtube channel now


No idea what WAN show is. Assume it's more talking heads.









youtube. Is that a 'U' shaped tube?









I do follow and watch MNPC Tech with Bill and gang. MNPC and gang do some fantastic things.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I do follow and watch MNPC Tech with Bill and gang. MNPC and gang do some fantastic things.


THANK YOU for this. Didn't know they existed.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> THANK YOU for this. Didn't know they existed.


They are real people doing nice things. Nothing like the talking heads.


----------



## war4peace

Talking heads do have their usefulness, though. They're like teachers for small children versus university scientists, they all have their purpose and one type can't replace the other.
I admit I wouldn't have started watercooling without jayz2cents.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

I like Linus because he has good unboxings (if you don't pay too close attention to what he says other than his shenanigans; those can be funny) and one can learn what not to do through his mistakes. He is also a nut; I like nuts because I am nuts.


----------



## Ceadderman

I stumbled upon Linus(bruised my danged shins) when I was checking out the ASUS M4AGTD Pro USB3 unboxing, he put out. Based on that video alone I dismissed that board and went with the board my sig rig resides on. Never looked back with disappointment. So Linus does have his moments. lol









~Ceadder


----------



## doyll

Problem is most talking heads don't know what they are talking about and often lead people to believe untruths.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Linus isn't the brightest crayon in the box but he knows more about computers and computer systems than I will ever know.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Linus isn't the brightest crayon in the box but he knows more about computers and computer systems than I will ever know.


If you want to learn more about computers and not just listen to hot air, a.k.a Linus, subscribe to PCPerspective. Their podcast is infinitely better than the WAN show and way more informative.


----------



## LazarusIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> If you want to learn more about computers and not just listen to hot air, a.k.a Linus, subscribe to PCPerspective. Their podcast is infinitely better than the WAN show and way more informative.


Seconded.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Linus isn't the brightest crayon in the box but he knows more about computers and computer systems than I will ever know.


Problem is I don't think he has the faintest idea how airflow really works, but he likes to talk as if he knows everything.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

But...but...but...he's so funny. Like I said before, his unboxings are informative (as long as I take what he says with a grain or two of salt)—they are a great way to see what a new product looks like up close—but his shenanigans are a stitch, like when he lost the server and didn't have it backed up. Other than his unboxings, I watch him mostly for entertainment.


----------



## poinguan

I did a positive/negative air pressure test on my Fractal R5 case. Currently, the case has 2 front intakes (1 Fractal stock fan and 1 Noctua Redux, marked blue) and 1 rear exhaust (1 Fractal stock fan, marked purple). The rear vent is sucking unfiltered air into my case (marked red)







.
I wanna keep my case and components clean. I guess the only way to add more pressure into the case is to add 1 more fan at the bottom (marked green).
Fan recommendation is needed as I've bad experience with sleeve bearing fan that sucks when the fan is placed horizontally. Silent type referred. Is Corsair maglev fan ok? The ML140 is kinda expensive, but does it work magic? How about the Noctua NF-P14S Redux?


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> 
> I did a positive/negative air pressure test on my Fractal R5 case. Currently, the case has 2 front intakes (1 Fractal stock fan and 1 Noctua Redux, marked blue) and 1 rear exhaust (1 Fractal stock fan, marked purple). The rear vent is sucking unfiltered air into my case (marked red)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I wanna keep my case and components clean. I guess the only way to add more pressure into the case is to add 1 more fan at the bottom (marked green).
> Fan recommendation is needed as I've bad experience with sleeve bearing fan that sucks when the fan is placed horizontally. Silent type referred. Is Corsair maglev fan ok? The ML140 is kinda expensive, but does it work magic? How about the Noctua NF-P14S Redux?


How are your fans controlled? What speeds are the fans set to ? Can you slow the exhaust fan slightly? Or remove it entirely and add it as an intake?

Is your PSU fan facing down pulling air from the outside or facing up pulling air from the inside?

How many hard drives do you have? Are the Drive cages impeding the air flow?

I have three R5s setup like the picture below and all have positive air flow.
four intakes
one exhaust
PSU fan facing down drawing air from the bottom
PCI blanks removed
Hard Drive moved to lower optical bay
Hard Drive Bays removed.



Two systems have 5 Fractal Fans.
One system has 5 Phantek fans.


----------



## Dan-H

I overlooked the question on fan recommendations.

I went with Phantek PH-F140SP_BK case fans in Daily Driver. I think they are a little quieter than the Fractal fans. I've been running them 24x7 for about six months.

The fractals fans that I had for about a year were put into one of the "wish it was mine" systems I built ( picture in previous post) with no problems with any of these.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> 
> I did a positive/negative air pressure test on my Fractal R5 case. Currently, the case has 2 front intakes (1 Fractal stock fan and 1 Noctua Redux, marked blue) and 1 rear exhaust (1 Fractal stock fan, marked purple). The rear vent is sucking unfiltered air into my case (marked red)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I wanna keep my case and components clean. I guess the only way to add more pressure into the case is to add 1 more fan at the bottom (marked green).
> Fan recommendation is needed as I've bad experience with sleeve bearing fan that sucks when the fan is placed horizontally. Silent type referred. Is Corsair maglev fan ok? The ML140 is kinda expensive, but does it work magic? How about the Noctua NF-P14S Redux?


The stock case fans are not really up to the task of pulling air through front grill and filter. They have a pressure rating of 0.71mm H2O @ 1000rpm. The NF-P140s redux is not too bad with a rating of 1.29mm H2O @ 1200rpm. By comparison the PH-F140SP has a pressure rating of 1.33mm H2O @ 1200rpm and PH-F140XP has 1.52mm H2O @ 1200rpm. Many Define users replace the stock case fans with better fans, ike PH-F140SP or PH-F140XP or newer PH-F140MP. Reason is a fan rated 0.71 mm at full speed is only 0.40mm at half speed. If grill and filter are 0.4mm of resistance we end up with no airflow. If fan is rated 1.52mm at 1200rm it will have about 0.7mm at 600rpm .. as much as 0.71mm fan has at full speed. So it flows as much air at half speed through grill and filter as stock fan does at full speed. We only use static pressure and airflow ratings because that is all we have from manufacturers to base our needs on. We really need are P/Q curves at different RPM for each fan to see how it really performs .. sadly few companies supply this kind of information. Basically what this all means is we choose fans that have of each fan ahigher static pressure ratings and similar airflow rates, 99 times out of 100 the higher static pressure rated fans will flow more air than the lower rated ones will in the same application. This is all because all of our uses for fans (except for blowing air around in our work area) never operate under conditions similar to they conditions used when testing for static pressure and airflow specifications.
I've ran many PH-F140SP and TY-147A in horizontal position for several years with no problems.


----------



## Ding23

I'm looking for new quiet but decent performance case fans for my Define R4, right now I'm running the stock ones at 7v because they are too loud at 12v but I'm looking at the be quiet! Silent Wings 3 140mm and possibly run them at their full speed 1k RPM, maybe they will sound the same as my stock fans at 7v?
Also should I go for the be quiet! Silent Wings 3 140mm High Speed version and run them at 7v in case I want higher RPM down the line?
The High Speed version will have the same dba and cfm as the regular ones both running at the same RPM?

Not sure which would be quieter and more CFM at 1k RPM, Nf-A14, SW3 or PH-F140SP


----------



## poinguan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dan-H*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> 
> I did a positive/negative air pressure test on my Fractal R5 case. Currently, the case has 2 front intakes (1 Fractal stock fan and 1 Noctua Redux, marked blue) and 1 rear exhaust (1 Fractal stock fan, marked purple). The rear vent is sucking unfiltered air into my case (marked red)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I wanna keep my case and components clean. I guess the only way to add more pressure into the case is to add 1 more fan at the bottom (marked green).
> Fan recommendation is needed as I've bad experience with sleeve bearing fan that sucks when the fan is placed horizontally. Silent type referred. Is Corsair maglev fan ok? The ML140 is kinda expensive, but does it work magic? How about the Noctua NF-P14S Redux?
> 
> 
> 
> How are your fans controlled? What speeds are the fans set to ? Can you slow the exhaust fan slightly? Or remove it entirely and add it as an intake?
> 
> Is your PSU fan facing down pulling air from the outside or facing up pulling air from the inside?
> 
> How many hard drives do you have? Are the Drive cages impeding the air flow?
> 
> I have three R5s setup like the picture below and all have positive air flow.
> four intakes
> one exhaust
> PSU fan facing down drawing air from the bottom
> PCI blanks removed
> Hard Drive moved to lower optical bay
> Hard Drive Bays removed.
> 
> 
> 
> Two systems have 5 Fractal Fans.
> One system has 5 Phantek fans.
Click to expand...

The Fractal stock fans are connected to the case's built in fan controller. The Noctua goes direct to my mobo. PSU sucks fresh air from the bottom. All my storage drives are mounted at the lower cage (I need the hdd to be actively cooled). Middle cage is removed.
I see that you have 4x intakes, hence a definitive positive pressure







.


----------



## Dan-H

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> The Fractal stock fans are connected to the case's built in fan controller. The Noctua goes direct to my mobo. PSU sucks fresh air from the bottom. All my storage drives are mounted at the lower cage (I need the hdd to be actively cooled). Middle cage is removed.
> I see that you have 4x intakes, hence a definitive positive pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Just thinking out loud , I think you can you move the small, three bay HDD cage directly below the optical bays.

This opens up the floor so you could have four intakes.

I think the next thing I would do is get the front fan both under MoBo control and have the fan speeds be slightly faster than the exhaust fan. a Y-connector should work for this.

If you don't have any more fan headers, then running the two fans on the floor at 7V should give a little more intake and also block the floor from being an exhaust path.

@doyll has a bunch of excellent tips improving airflow including raising the bottom of case and opening things up for air flow. I highly recommend reading through the posts he links at the bottom of his sig.


----------



## Gen Patton

Hello Guys from my research on Cosair ml fans they are real good/ so good I have desided to replace my Rosewell case fans with them. in the front I am going with the ml blue 140 mm on my Cosair h100 I am going with the ml Red 120mm and one white 120mm for exhaust. Have you watch youtube there are guys who have great cases and good airflow. The fan on your power supply is it facing down? Do you have a rad at the top for your cpu? If so you might have too many fans. Take another Photo of your bay area, its hard to see what cooling your cpu.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gen Patton*
> 
> Hello Guys from my research on Cosair ml fans they are real good/ so good I have desided to replace my Rosewell case fans with them. in the front I am going with the ml blue 140 mm on my Cosair h100 I am going with the ml Red 120mm and one white 120mm for exhaust. Have you watch youtube there are guys who have great cases and good airflow. The fan on your power supply is it facing down? Do you have a rad at the top for your cpu? If so you might have too many fans. Take another Photo of your bay area, its hard to see what cooling your cpu.


Without knowing what case, motherboard and GPU you have it's kinda hard to say what is best fan and radiator placement.
|In modern cases the PSU is almost always mounted to draw air from outside of case.
If you have not already bough your H100, my advise is do not! They are the devil's spawn .. all CLCs are. Their aluminum radiators have poor heat transfer to air, their pimps pujmps flow less than we pee after having a few beers, their not near as dependable as a good air cooler, make more noise and cost more too .. and if your CLC fails (999.99% of the time it's the pump) you have no cooler until you replace it. With an air cooler there is only the fan to fail, and system will stll work with one fan or any fan held on with rubber-band until new fan arrives.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ...With an air cooler there is only the fan to fail, and system will stll work with one fan or any fan held on with rubber-band until new fan arrives.


The cost of even the best fans is low enough to make keeping a spare on hand worthwhile. Same for case fans.


----------



## poinguan

Any recommendations for fans that can be placed horizontally? Cheapo fans with sleeve bearing is out.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> Any recommendations for fans that can be placed horizontally? Cheapo fans with sleeve bearing is out.


You do realize if it's not a ball bearing it's a sleeve bearing variant. What size & speed range? PWM or variable voltage?


----------



## poinguan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> Any recommendations for fans that can be placed horizontally? Cheapo fans with sleeve bearing is out.
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize if it's not a ball bearing it's a sleeve bearing variant. What size & speed range? PWM or variable voltage?
Click to expand...

140mm, PWM 4pin, silent. How's Noctua NF-P14S Redux (SSO bearing?) or Corsair ML (if maglev is magic) ?
FYI, both Phanteks and Thermalright are not available in my country.


----------



## Melcar

My NF-A15s (stock NH-D15 fans) don't sound weird when place horizontally.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> 140mm, PWM 4pin, silent. How's Noctua NF-P14S Redux (SSO bearing?) or Corsair ML (if maglev is magic) ?
> FYI, both Phanteks and Thermalright are not available in my country.


Can you get be quiet! Silent Wings 3 there? They are good
http://thermalbench.com/?s=silent+wings+3+140


----------



## Cyclops

Derp.


----------



## ./Cy4n1d3\.

I am looking to make some upgrades.

HAF 912 - a couple 120mm case fans, possibly with blue LED. I am considering without blue LED if no good ones exist. My sickleflows are getting old and rattley. Looking for good performance, possibly low price.

NZXT S340 - This case was just purchased last year. Added a Asiahorse Solar Eclipse Mirage to the Hyper 212+. Rear is a 120 mm, top is a 120/140mm, front is 2x 120/140 mm fans with just the default fans included right now. So one 120 mm in the front and top. Looking to get suggestions for this. This case is more negotiable on not having LED.


----------



## Gen Patton

Have you looked at Cosair ml 140mm fans or their 120mm fans. I am holding out for the 140 in blue for my Rosewell stryker case. Not going to build motoko with out new fans. If I am spending $1800.00 on motoko I might as well wait to get the right fans to cool her. I don't want to have to go back and replace when I just built her.


----------



## poinguan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> 
> I did a positive/negative air pressure test on my Fractal R5 case. Currently, the case has 2 front intakes (1 Fractal stock fan and 1 Noctua Redux, marked blue) and 1 rear exhaust (1 Fractal stock fan, marked purple). The rear vent is sucking unfiltered air into my case (marked red)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I wanna keep my case and components clean. I guess the only way to add more pressure into the case is to add 1 more fan at the bottom (marked green).
> Fan recommendation is needed as I've bad experience with sleeve bearing fan that sucks when the fan is placed horizontally. Silent type referred. Is Corsair maglev fan ok? The ML140 is kinda expensive, but does it work magic? How about the Noctua NF-P14S Redux?
> 
> 
> 
> The stock case fans are not really up to the task of pulling air through front grill and filter. They have a pressure rating of 0.71mm H2O @ 1000rpm. The NF-P140s redux is not too bad with a rating of 1.29mm H2O @ 1200rpm. By comparison the PH-F140SP has a pressure rating of 1.33mm H2O @ 1200rpm and PH-F140XP has 1.52mm H2O @ 1200rpm. Many Define users replace the stock case fans with better fans, ike PH-F140SP or PH-F140XP or newer PH-F140MP. Reason is a fan rated 0.71 mm at full speed is only 0.40mm at half speed. If grill and filter are 0.4mm of resistance we end up with no airflow. If fan is rated 1.52mm at 1200rm it will have about 0.7mm at 600rpm .. as much as 0.71mm fan has at full speed. So it flows as much air at half speed through grill and filter as stock fan does at full speed. We only use static pressure and airflow ratings because that is all we have from manufacturers to base our needs on. We really need are P/Q curves at different RPM for each fan to see how it really performs .. sadly few companies supply this kind of information. Basically what this all means is we choose fans that have of each fan ahigher static pressure ratings and similar airflow rates, 99 times out of 100 the higher static pressure rated fans will flow more air than the lower rated ones will in the same application. This is all because all of our uses for fans (except for blowing air around in our work area) never operate under conditions similar to they conditions used when testing for static pressure and airflow specifications.
> I've ran many PH-F140SP and TY-147A in horizontal position for several years with no problems.
Click to expand...

I've managed to buy two PH-F140SP_BK from a local forumer who removed the fans from his Phanteks casing. Waiting for delivery. I hope it is as quiet as the Noctua.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> I've managed to buy two PH-F140SP_BK from a local forumer who removed the fans from his Phanteks casing. Waiting for delivery. I hope it is as quiet as the Noctua.


Please let us know your thoughts when you get them installed.


----------



## dlewbell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *./Cy4n1d3\.*
> 
> I am looking to make some upgrades.
> 
> HAF 912 - a couple 120mm case fans, possibly with blue LED. I am considering without blue LED if no good ones exist. My sickleflows are getting old and rattley. Looking for good performance, possibly low price.
> 
> NZXT S340 - This case was just purchased last year. Added a Asiahorse Solar Eclipse Mirage to the Hyper 212+. Rear is a 120 mm, top is a 120/140mm, front is 2x 120/140 mm fans with just the default fans included right now. So one 120 mm in the front and top. Looking to get suggestions for this. This case is more negotiable on not having LED.


The PH-F120SP is a good option that's also available with blue LEDs. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835709033


----------



## Melcar

Just be aware that the Phantek fans have this really crappy plastic wrap covering the fan cables that gets damaged easily. It's not the typical braiding you see on most fans. It's rather stiff, and while you can bend it easily, it will start to peal off and tear in no time. It won't matter if you don't play around with your fans too much and/or are good at hiding cables.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> Any recommendations for fans that can be placed horizontally? Cheapo fans with sleeve bearing is out.


Depends, Fractal fans that came with R4 were not usable horizontally but the cheapo $5 Gelid fans are just fine. Years later still 100% fine. http://gelidsolutions.com/thermal-solutions/case-fan-silent-14-2/ Are they great? Dunno but from my experience they are quieter than Fractal fans and cost me really $5 a pop years ago.
If anything, should have bought more of them as for the money they are awesome.

As far as positive pressure goes, 3:1 ratio with filtered intakes should do it but 2:1 likely won't, depends on case and filters, how much obstruction you have for the intake and exhaust. Equal fan size and speeds. Honestly, just add as many intakes as you can to fit your desired noise.
If you have cages and other obstructions, make it 4:1 ratio.


----------



## war4peace

Coming here with some feedback on the MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure fans.
I have three of them, mounted horizontally (face up) in push mode pushing air up through an EKWB XE360 radiator. They are set up in Performance mode (650 to 2750 RPM) and controlled through PWM via an Aquaero 6 LT. The recording in the link below was taken place with the fans at cca 1300-1400 RPM, the sound was normalized in Audacity so the amplitude is a bit exaggerated, but to translate it to normal hearing, you can hear that buzz through a closed door.


__
https://soundcloud.com/eduard-burlacu-808478901%2Fmasterfan-fans-buzz
.

That buzz disappears at really low RPM (below 900) but it's prevalent at pretty much all other speeds, including maxed out. Only one fan is buzzing, and if I press a finger on its axis while it does that the buzz goes away, and reappears when I remove the finger from it.
Generally, those fans sound like they are resonating with each other, with an undertone hum going up and down in amplitude.
They are brand new, never used before this build, and I have not tested them in a vertical position.

It's really disappointing. I guess I'll resume my search for better fans. Looking for something with relatively good static pressure and virtually inaudible at low speeds.


----------



## jura11

@war4peace

Hi there

If you are looking at quiet fans with good air pressure then I would suggest Phanteks PH-F120SP or PH-F120MP fans, have run both fans on EK XE360 and on Mayhems Havoc 240mm both are 60mm thick radiators and MP fans are very quiet at 600-1000RPM and at 1100-1200RPM you will hear them, noise is only airflow noise through the radiator and at 1500RPM and above these fans are loud but still not loud as EK Vardar F3 1850RPM at same RPM

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura


----------



## war4peace

I was thinking Noctua NF-F12 - I was never let down by Noctua fans but man, they look ugly.


----------



## poinguan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> 
> I did a positive/negative air pressure test on my Fractal R5 case. Currently, the case has 2 front intakes (1 Fractal stock fan and 1 Noctua Redux, marked blue) and 1 rear exhaust (1 Fractal stock fan, marked purple). The rear vent is sucking unfiltered air into my case (marked red)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I wanna keep my case and components clean. I guess the only way to add more pressure into the case is to add 1 more fan at the bottom (marked green).


A little update: With 2x intake and 1x exhaust, it has created a negative pressure with the front door closed. If the front door is opened, the rear vent will blow, hence positive pressure.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> A little update: With 2x intake and 1x exhaust, it has created a negative pressure with the front door closed. If the front door is opened, the rear vent will blow, hence positive pressure.


Yeah, door open versus closed makes a big difference. Stock fans cannot deal with the resistance, so as long as one of your front fans is stock you will have problems. Time after time the Define cases have shown best flow with 3x good fans with 2x front and 1x bottom intakes.

Rear vent you are referring to is the red arrow one?

When are you going to install the PH-F140SP fans?


----------



## poinguan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> A little update: With 2x intake and 1x exhaust, it has created a negative pressure with the front door closed. If the front door is opened, the rear vent will blow, hence positive pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, door open versus closed makes a big difference. Stock fans cannot deal with the resistance, so as long as one of your front fans is stock you will have problems. Time after time the Define cases have shown best flow with 3x good fans with 2x front and 1x bottom intakes.
> 
> Rear vent you are referring to is the red arrow one?
> 
> When are you going to install the PH-F140SP fans?
Click to expand...

Yes, the red arrow one.
I'll get the Phanteks on Monday morning.








I'm planning for this:
- 2x Phanteks at the front intake
- 1x Noctua at rear exhaust
- 2x stock Fractal at bottom intake (can the Fractal bearing last long in this horizontal position)?


----------



## poinguan

This is my current fan setup:
- 1x Phanteks and 1x Noctua at front intake
- 1x Phanteks at bottom intake
- 1x stock Fractal at rear exhaust.

Case is now positive pressure. Yay. Overall, there's a drop of 2°C on GPU and CPU temperature after 40 minutes of GTA V.

The 2x Phanteks and 1x Fractal fans are connected via the front fan speed selector. With the selector at max, the Phanteks are a lot louder (more airflow too) than the Fractal is. However, I don't think I can live with the loud fan noise. Selector at medium produces reasonable fan noise while still maintaining positive pressure in the case.

Now the bigger question: Does 7V (assume the medium setting on the R5 fan controller is 7v) Phanteks push more air than 12V Fractal?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Fractal fans that came with R4 were not usable horizontally


Mmmkay. How about the Dynamic GP14 fan in R5?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> This is my current fan setup:
> - 1x Phanteks and 1x Noctua at front intake
> - 1x Phanteks at bottom intake
> - 1x stock Fractal at rear exhaust.
> 
> Case is now positive pressure. Yay. Overall, there's a drop of 2°C on GPU and CPU temperature after 40 minutes of GTA V.
> 
> The 2x Phanteks and 1x Fractal fans are connected via the front fan speed selector. With the selector at max, the Phanteks are a lot louder (more airflow too) than the Fractal is. However, I don't think I can live with the loud fan noise. Selector at medium produces reasonable fan noise while still maintaining positive pressure in the case.
> 
> Now the bigger question: Does 7V (assume the medium setting on the R5 fan controller is 7v) Phanteks push more air than 12V Fractal?
> Mmmkay. How about the Dynamic GP14 fan in R5?


What speed are you running the intake fans at?

I'm pretty sure the Phanteks fans will move more air with selector set to medium speed than fractal fan will flow full speed.

Dynamic GP-14 is 1000rpm, 68.4cfm, 0.71mm H2O
PH-F140SP . are . 1200rpm, 82.1cfm, 1.33mm H2O
PH-F140SP at 1000rpm,about .70cfm, 1.0mm H2O.

The higher pressure rating means PH-F140SP will flow more air at same resistance then GP-14 will.

Hopefully now if you need more airflow (like on an extremely hot day) you can speed up the fans and keep things cool.


----------



## poinguan

A million thanks, doyll


----------



## poinguan

After using the Phanteks PH-F140SP for a few days at 7v, I have to admit that it's louder than Fractal GP-14 at 12V.







... and too loud for my taste


----------



## Rainmaker91

Anyone have recommendations for a 120mm fans that performs well and is quiet @400-600RPM?

I'm looking at the Corsair ML120, but I'm unsure if it would give me the best result. For reference I'm currently running 16xArctic F12 @5v 800RPM, on 2xAlphacool Nexxxos 480mm Monsta radiators and that is to loud for me.

Edit: Doesn't matter if it's voltage or PWM as I'll tailor the controlling mechanism for the fan.


----------



## hadesfactor

I personally run the ML's both 120 and 140 have a total of 12 ML's. They run great and are pretty quiet even at high speeds. Some people report a noise when running at lower speeds but I have not noticed it. Even at full blast its not super loud and their performance is pretty good. They have good SP and flow. But their are many fans out there that are pretty great fans. My suggestion is narrow it down to a few fans and maybe pick up 1 of each and return the ones you dont like lol Just dont take off twist ties etc and be careful when open the box. Controll them through a fan controller and set the speed


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hadesfactor*
> 
> I personally run the ML's both 120 and 140 have a total of 12 ML's. They run great and are pretty quiet even at high speeds. Some people report a noise when running at lower speeds but I have not noticed it. Even at full blast its not super loud and their performance is pretty good. They have good SP and flow. But their are many fans out there that are pretty great fans. My suggestion is narrow it down to a few fans and maybe pick up 1 of each and return the ones you dont like lol Just dont take off twist ties etc and be careful when open the box. Controll them through a fan controller and set the speed


Probably not a bad idea, but I have limited access to certain fans. Corsair, Be-Quiet and Noctua are pretty much the only ones that are widely available and Noctua is out of the question due to aesthetics. I have some Eloops that I used at one point and those are terrific, but I foolishly bought the Voltage controlled 1900RPM version (also the pull issue is annoying as hell).


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Probably not a bad idea, but I have limited access to certain fans. Corsair, Be-Quiet and Noctua are pretty much the only ones that are widely available and Noctua is out of the question due to aesthetics. I have some Eloops that I used at one point and those are terrific, but I foolishly bought the Voltage controlled 1900RPM version (also the pull issue is annoying as hell).


The new be quiet! Silent Wings 3 look to be quite good. I have not used them myself but I trust Thermalbench testing. OCN user geggeg is Thermalbench and he does good work.
http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-quiet-silent-wings-3-140-mm-high-speed-fan/3/


----------



## hadesfactor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Probably not a bad idea, but I have limited access to certain fans. Corsair, Be-Quiet and Noctua are pretty much the only ones that are widely available and Noctua is out of the question due to aesthetics. I have some Eloops that I used at one point and those are terrific, but I foolishly bought the Voltage controlled 1900RPM version (also the pull issue is annoying as hell).


Yeah I like noctua but same aesthetically its not a choice
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The new be quiet! Silent Wings 3 look to be quite good. I have not used them myself but I trust Thermalbench testing. OCN user geggeg is Thermalbench and he does good work.
> http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-quiet-silent-wings-3-140-mm-high-speed-fan/3/


They are good fans...just note what fan controller you are using if you are using one as I think there are issues with the Aquaero


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> The new be quiet! Silent Wings 3 look to be quite good. I have not used them myself but I trust Thermalbench testing. OCN user geggeg is Thermalbench and he does good work.
> http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-quiet-silent-wings-3-140-mm-high-speed-fan/3/


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hadesfactor*
> 
> Yeah I like noctua but same aesthetically its not a choice
> They are good fans...just note what fan controller you are using if you are using one as I think there are issues with the Aquaero


I have been looking at the be Quiet fans as well, and the option for a voltage controlled unit is tempting as I prefer to just set the speed and forget it. I was also a bit wrong concerning what fans I have available as I now see that I actually can get more or less anything except the GT which I have to import. Though the Corsair fans are tempting due to the 2 pack option significantly reducing cost.

Edit: I can actually get the GT as well I see... it's a good time to be a hardware enthusiast in Norway it seems


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hadesfactor*
> 
> They are good fans...just note what fan controller you are using if you are using one as I think there are issues with the Aquaero


Only issue I've heard of was problem geggeg found when testing the Silent Wings 3 with his aquaero 6, but haven't been paying much attention lately. If you can give me links to other issue I would love to read up on it.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Only issue I've heard of was problem geggeg found when testing the Silent Wings 3 with his aquaero 6, but haven't been paying much attention lately. If you can give me links to other issue I would love to read up on it.


Both companies involved acknowledged it after I brought it up, so it's an actual issue. Whether or not it impacts many others is a different matter.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Both companies involved acknowledged it after I brought it up, so it's an actual issue. Whether or not it impacts many others is a different matter.


Sorry if you misunderstood. I was not doubting the problem you experienced is real. I was only saying I have not seen anything about others having problems with them. Not sure which fans are on my Silent Loop 280, but their PWM rpm curve works fine .. admittedly the rpm to PWM% curve increases at higher speeds, much like other fans I've used / tested. I sure wish others did as good a job testing fans as you do.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sorry if you misunderstood. I was not doubting the problem you experienced is real. I was only saying I have not seen anything about others having problems with them. Not sure which fans are on my Silent Loop 280, but their PWM rpm curve works fine .. admittedly the rpm to PWM% curve increases at higher speeds, much like other fans I've used / tested. I sure wish others did as good a job testing fans as you do.


Oh nothing to be sorry for, just wanted to clarify what the situation was so others understand it may not necessarily be a universal problem









I think the Silent Loop AIOs use the old Pure Wings fans, but not sure since I haven't seen one in person.


----------



## Cyclops

AIO!?!? Go full liquid or Intel stock cooler. There is no in between!!!


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Oh nothing to be sorry for, just wanted to clarify what the situation was so others understand it may not necessarily be a universal problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Silent Loop AIOs use the old Pure Wings fans, but not sure since I haven't seen one in person.


They should use the Pure Wings 2 fans according to BeQueits website. Really interesting AIOs BTW, all copper/brass radiator so no mixed metals. Really digging that choice.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> They should use the Pure Wings 2 fans according to BeQueits website. Really interesting AIOs BTW, all copper/brass radiator so no mixed metals. Really digging that choice.


I know that in technical data for Silent Loop 280 mm they say " _Pure Wings 2 140mm PWM fans_", but the 140 mm Pure Wings 2 PWM fan listed separately has different

Specificatons for "Pure Wings 2 PWM" listed independently are
Fan speed @ 12V (rpm)1,000
Air flow @ 12V (cfm, m3/h)61.2 / 104
Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O)0.76
Noise level @ 12V (dB(A))19.8
Bearing technologyRifle
Motor technology4-pole fan motor

Specifications for "Pure Wings 2 PWM" listed on Silent Loop 280 mm are
Speed @ 100% PWM (rpm)1,600
Air flow @ 12V (cfm / m3/h)94.2 / 160
Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O)1.82
Noise level (dB(A)) @ 25 % / 50% /100% rpm16.1 / 24.1 / 37.3
Bearing typeRifle
Motor technology4-pole fan motor
Rated voltage (V)12
Input current (A)0.3
Input power (W)3.6

Obviously not the same same even though they have same name.








And that is why I did not say they are as you said, "Pure Wings 2 PWM".

I love my Silent Loop 280 mm. Only AIO I've used that I have kept in service for longer than it took to test it .. but then it is not a CLC .. and that makes a huge difference. Like you said, copper radiator, proper hose fittings and a proper fill port for servicing .. as well as a pump that moves significantly more coolant than CLC pumps do. It is made by Alphacool to be quiet! specifications, so while be quiet! do not give use the pump flow rate, other AIOs made by Alphacool are flow 72 L/h and 1m H2O lift / pressure rated.


----------



## SeriousTom

I'm looking for a pair of 120mm fans for the *top* of my Lian Li PC-O8 for more *air intake* and was thinking of Corsair ML but I see that they are for radiators.
I have a Cryorig R1 Universal for cooling will work alright or are their better alternatives ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeriousTom*
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of 120mm fans for the *top* of my Lian Li PC-O8 for more *air intake* and was thinking of Corsair ML but I see that they are for radiators.
> I have a Cryorig R1 Universal for cooling will work alright or are their better alternatives ?


Only the front part of top 2x fan vent can maybe help supply cool air to CPU cooler. Even then it cannot be running too fast or it will create turbulence in front of R1 front fan and lower airflow through R1.


----------



## SeriousTom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Only the front part of top 2x fan vent can maybe help supply cool air to CPU cooler. Even then it cannot be running too fast or it will create turbulence in front of R1 front fan and lower airflow through R1.


Good point !
So then I would probably be better off with a 3 pin constant fan, do you have anything in mind that would fill the bill.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeriousTom*
> 
> Good point !
> So then I would probably be better off with a 3 pin constant fan, do you have anything in mind that would fill the bill.


I speed control all fans based on system heat / load. Why have a fan spinning faster than needed and making noise unless system needs the airflow?


----------



## Melcar

I think I may have "resolved" the bothersome humming of my PH-140MPs. Normally I have PWM set to 20%. Went ahead and set it to 40%. The Phanteks fans still hit their minimum speed (510 rpm for me), but now they don't hum at their lowest setting. Unfortunately my TY-143's run a tad faster now, but I find it hard to hear them over the Phanteks regardless.


----------



## Gen Patton

Poing I talk to Corsair tech guy, we talked about 30min, I know its there product but h assured me that the ml series is the way to go in your case. I told him I wanted to cool a Amdfx8350 cpu and I am using a 980tisc for my gpu. he told me ii would be making a great choice getting the ML fans also to use the 120 mm fans on the rad and the 140mm on the front. there not RGB there Led but I am not into the RGB
thing right now I just want Motoko to stay cool.So if I were you call Corsair and talk to the tech guys and go from there. After all its your choice in the end. yes they cost a little more but is your computer worth it?


----------



## hadesfactor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeriousTom*
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of 120mm fans for the *top* of my Lian Li PC-O8 for more *air intake* and was thinking of Corsair ML but I see that they are for radiators.
> I have a Cryorig R1 Universal for cooling will work alright or are their better alternatives ?


i use my MLs all the way around...i have 3x120 on my intake 1x140 exhaust and both rads have 4x120 they are great all around fans and even with that many fans its not loud at all...my intakes are running about 35% exhaust about 20% and the rads based on a delta between ambient and water temp


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gen Patton*
> 
> Poing I talk to Corsair tech guy, we talked about 30min, I know its there product but h assured me that the ml series is the way to go in your case. I told him I wanted to cool a Amdfx8350 cpu and I am using a 980tisc for my gpu. he told me ii would be making a great choice getting the ML fans also to use the 120 mm fans on the rad and the 140mm on the front. there not RGB there Led but I am not into the RGB
> thing right now I just want Motoko to stay cool.So if I were you call Corsair and talk to the tech guys and go from there. After all its your choice in the end. yes they cost a little more but is your computer worth it?


Sorry, but of course Corsiar guy will tell you to use a Corsail corsair product. Same way a Honda rep will tell you to buy Honda and not BMW. They will promote their product above all others regardless of which is better for your application. After all that is what their job is all about.
I'm not saying the ML is not a decent fan, but there are at least half a dozen or more just and some better for similar or less money.

But their rep is not gong to recommend anything without a sailboat label on it .. as in not a product of company he is representing. .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hadesfactor*
> 
> i use my MLs all the way around...i have 3x120 on my intake 1x140 exhaust and both rads have 4x120 they are great all around fans and even with that many fans its not loud at all...my intakes are running about 35% exhaust about 20% and the rads based on a delta between ambient and water temp


Which are intake and which are exhaust? What are our temps?


----------



## poinguan

Does anybody know the static pressure of the NZXT RF-FN142-RB 140mm fan?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *poinguan*
> 
> Does anybody know the static pressure of the NZXT RF-FN142-RB 140mm fan?


I think they are 0.90mmH2O and about 50cfm. Not what i would consider a good fan.


----------



## Cyb3r

my option was either wait on new stock for the fans i wanted or suck it up and pay 40$ / 2pack for corsair ml 140s after some quick fixing with my pc case german engineering didn't include german quality controll in my case apparently grmbl grmbl

Have to say at 1200rpm they're blowing my nanoxia fans straight out of the water and my case isnt the easiest to cool either thats what i get for picking a deep silence 6 sigh


----------



## hadesfactor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sorry, but of course Corsiar guy will tell you to use a Corsail corsair product. Same way a Honda rep will tell you to buy Honda and not BMW. They will promote their product above all others regardless of which is better for your application. After all that is what their job is all about.
> I'm not saying the ML is not a decent fan, but there are at least half a dozen or more just and some better for similar or less money.
> 
> But their rep is not gong to recommend anything without a sailboat label on it .. as in not a product of company he is representing. .
> Which are intake and which are exhaust? What are our temps?


I have 3x120 ml pro LED in the front intake (corsair 900d) 1x140mm in the exhaust. my ambient is between 27-29c, keep in mind I live in arizona so my house is at a constant 26c in my house itself. My temps for my CPU are 32-40c depending on load (6850k) and my GPU stays about 30-40c.....all water cooled as you prob have guessed dual loop. But Its a pretty quiet system and I haven't noticed the low wine people complain about but that being said my fans dont drop to 400 rpm ever

There are other fans that are def better, Noctua make the best fans imo but lets not forget, we look for a cross between aesthetics and function. Aslo, lots of people just look at the rating on the fan and think one is better then the other but they are rated at max RPM so you have to adjust to get the true rating. I got them because they are good for both AF and SP and I wanted the white LED's


----------



## Skylinestar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I think they are 0.90mmH2O and about 50cfm. Not what i would consider a good fan.


So this chart ( https://us.hardware.info/reviews/7186/4/high-static-pressure-case-fans-test-the-best-120mm-and-140mm-fans-for-your-radiator-or-cpu-cooler-test-results-static-efficiency-140mm-fans ) is not accurate?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*
> 
> So this chart ( https://us.hardware.info/reviews/7186/4/high-static-pressure-case-fans-test-the-best-120mm-and-140mm-fans-for-your-radiator-or-cpu-cooler-test-results-static-efficiency-140mm-fans ) is not accurate?


Specifications are accurate, but it's not the fan poinguan asked about.

poinguan asked about NZXT RF-FN142-RB which is a 1000rpm fan.

Fan in chart you linked to is RF-FX14L-0P. which is a 2000rpm fan.

Performance of a specific fan design with different motors so they run at different speed (in this case 1000rpm versus 2000rpm) means very different airflow and static pressure ratings.

Keep in mind the only ratings in specifications are at full speed and in environments very differnet from real world use environments.

Hope that explains it for you.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*
> 
> So this chart ( https://us.hardware.info/reviews/7186/4/high-static-pressure-case-fans-test-the-best-120mm-and-140mm-fans-for-your-radiator-or-cpu-cooler-test-results-static-efficiency-140mm-fans ) is not accurate?


I think it is likely accurate but a _terrible_ way to present the data. If you just look at the bar chart you'd think the NZXT FN140 V2 , Enermax UCCLA14P, or Corsair AF140 LED fan are good fan choices.

It should have been dB vs CFM through the restriction (the NZXT Kraken X41 used) as a line graph , CFM at 30dB as a bar graph, or dB vs RPM as a line graph.

Also dB isn't always representative of how annoying the noise will be. For example air noise vs humming / clicking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *https://us.hardware.info/reviews/7186/2/high-static-pressure-case-fans-test-the-best-120mm-and-140mm-fans-for-your-radiator-or-cpu-cooler-testnmethod*
> We put the case fan at the end of the tube, and let it blow outward. At the halfway point, we completely fill the tube with straws, causing them to form a kind of honeycomb structure. We do so with good reason, as the straws ensure that the air that is sucked through the tube is "straightened out", which in turn ensures that the air speed between the straws and the fan is equally high at any point in the cross section of the tube. We then put a so-called anemometer at the halfway point between the straws and the fan. Because the air speed is nearly identical across the entire surface area, we can determine the total air displacement by multiplying the speed with the surface area (π x r²). When using SI units, we'll then arrive at a value expressed in m³ per second, which we will in turn convert to cubic feet per minute, or rather, the CFM value that is often used when talking about case fans.
> 
> While we are unable to measure the static pressure directly, we can measure the airflow that remains after attaching the fan to a radiator. To this end, we attached all case fans to the radiator of a NZXT Kraken X41 water cooling kit.
> 
> The measurements were performed twice, on 7V and 12V. We determined when the noise levels of the case fans reached 30 dB(A) at 10 centimeters as well. This limit of 30 dB(A) is not arbitrary: this is the point where sound is not hearable on normal distance and normal circumstances.


----------



## Gen Patton

Ok guys I just order my last two fans for Motoko. I went with Cosair ML series. I bought two 140mm for the front, two 120mm for the rad and one 120mm for exhaust. They should be at my house in a week at the most. then I will take photos of all my parts and then I can build Motoko.(Amd fx 8350)


----------



## Snorlord

Would someone like to give me some advice which fan is the best buy from these I found in my budget. I really don't know what to buy anymore.

I need them for top exhaust and / or front intake as I already have 2 bitfenix pro fans.

ARCTIC F14 PWM Rev 2

NZXT FZ-140 140mm 1000rpm / 83 cfm

DeepCool uf140

Fractal Design Silent Series R3 140 mm

CF-T14S Cougar Fan

CF-V14S Cougar Fan

NZXT FX 140 mm V2 Radiator Fan

Aerocool Shark 140mm

Phanteks PH-F140SP

BeQuiet Pure Wings 2

Thanks in advance


----------



## Melcar

I have used the Phanteks SPs and they are really good. They move an okay amount of air and have good SP. They are rather quiet even at full speed and don't have tonality issues on any part of their RPM range. 3 pin fans, so keep that in mind.
The Arctic fans are also good. Have not used them myself, but many here say they are great budget fans.


----------



## MicroCat

My 1st choice would be the NZXT FX 140 mm V2 Radiator Fan - it's very similar to the Thermalright 147/143 - faster than the 147 tho (2000rpm max) - too fast for a quiet intake fan - but if you have PWM control for case fans you can keep it under 1400rpm and it will be quiet and effective. Which is like silent and deadly, but less stinky.

2. Phanteks PH-F140SP is a very good choice for voltage control 3 pin fans. Not as much static pressure as the NZXT V2, but since you didn't state your case, will assume it has average intake resistance.

3. BeQuiet Pure Wings 2 are quiet (while the bearings last), but lose some airflow with intake resistance. Not as 'lossy' as the Fractals tho.

I don't like the noise characteristics of the Cougars. The AC F14 can be either pretty good or kinda meh. Their quality control isn't as good as it could be.

Not sure why you need a top exhaust - guess someone has to - sorry it has to be you. As the illustrious Dr. Air Doyll will relate, it's better to have clean front-to-back airflow than spew air around in various directions and hope some exhaust fan gets excited enough to throw up hot air. See doyll's case airflow how-to for some hot air and how to get rid of it.


----------



## Snorlord

I am using a Phanteks Enthoo Pro. The reason why I want two at the top is because I already have 3 intake fans, but only 1 exhaust and nothing at the top except for a bad fan that doesn't blow air. I understand more intake is better, but I think 1 fan isn't enough to pull for 3 intake fans.

I might be going for the NZXT FX 140mm V2 radiator fan then.

What about the NZXT FZ-140 140mm 1000rpm fan with 83cfm, on paper it sound very good, is the build quality that bad of the fan?


----------



## MicroCat

What cooler are you using? What are your temps? Have you measured the external ambient temps and the internal case temps in front of the cooler? That temperature gradient will reveal how much better the airflow can be. Can use a cheap indoor/outdoor digital thermometer to measure.

The FZ-140 is a different design than the FX 140mm V2 and not a better design. Sounds better on paper than in a case. It's average at best. The Phanteks PH-F140SP is superior for airflow. Wait. You already have one for exhaust in the Enthoo Pro. Job done!









Or...if temps aren't what you want...replace the bitfenix with a couple PH-F140SPs. Or the FX 140mm V2 with PWM control. Keep the bitfenix for closet decorations as they are best suited for. ;-)


----------



## Snorlord

Scythe Mugen Max idle 24-26, under heavy load 57-61 and heavy heavy load prime95 I think it was 67-69. As I have no tool I did not meassure external ambient temps I can only tell you the motherboard sensors temps.

Nope the Phanteks PH-F140SP is atm intake not exhaust ;P

I have in total 4 fans in my case 3 intake, 1 exhaust Xigmatek XAF-F1453 140mm and one other worthless exhaust not worth mentioning.

I am actually really surprised with the Xigmatek XAF-F1453 the air it moves is crazy you can litteraly feel it blowing hard on your hand, it's only not so silent at 100% but it's pwm.

So PH-F140SP or FX 140mm V2?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> I am using a Phanteks Enthoo Pro. The reason why I want two at the top is because I already have 3 intake fans, but only 1 exhaust and nothing at the top except for a bad fan that doesn't blow air. I understand more intake is better, but I think 1 fan isn't enough to pull for 3 intake fans.
> 
> I might be going for the NZXT FX 140mm V2 radiator fan then.
> 
> What about the NZXT FZ-140 140mm 1000rpm fan with 83cfm, on paper it sound very good, is the build quality that bad of the fan?


3x good intake fans should give you good front to back airflow. Top fans usually disrupt front to back flow. You might find 'Ways to Better Cooling' linked in my sig of interest. 1st post is index, click on topic to see it. 5th is a good place to start.


----------



## Snorlord

So you say I shouldn't buy fans at all for top?

I will measure with external thermometer some time.


----------



## jura11

Hi there

As above @doyll suggested 3* intake fans would be best option but still think 2* 140mm will be better than 3*120mm

Top intake fan not sure, tried that as well on my Enthoo Primo which didn't make a lot difference in temperatures, maybe 1-2°C

Personally I like Phanteks PH-F140SP fans although they're not PWM fans but with good motherboard you can control them,these NZXT FX 140 mm V2 as @MicroCat said they looks like TY-147A which are my favourite fans with TY-143

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura


----------



## Snorlord

Okay what about this setup,

As intake 2 NZXT FX 140 mm V2 and 1 Phanteks PH-F140SP or 3 Phanteks PH-F140SP (btw are the led versions the same fans?)

As exhaust the xigmatek still in the back and the 2 bitfenix pro at the top?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Okay what about this setup,
> 
> As intake 2 NZXT FX 140 mm V2 and 1 Phanteks PH-F140SP or 3 Phanteks PH-F140SP (btw are the led versions the same fans?)
> 
> As exhaust the xigmatek still in the back and the 2 bitfenix pro at the top?


I guess you didn't read what I suggested .. because if you had you would understand why we are suggesting to not use top vents, but to instead remove unused PCIe back slot covers .. and the reasons for doing this.


----------



## Snorlord

Well I didn't had time yet to read the full article I did now. So you suggest 3 powerfull fans as intake, removing dustfilters and all brackets where possible air is going through.

Note that this case don't have 3 front intakes so not all air in the case will be going backwards only the lower part with the gpu.

Is it worth replacing the Bitfenix pro fans?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Well I didn't had time yet to read the full article I did now. So you suggest 3 powerfull fans as intake, removing dustfilters and all brackets where possible air is going through.
> 
> Well my new question is, it worth replacing the Bitfenix pro fans?


No, I do not suggest removeing dust filters!
I suggest removing as many unused obstacles to in airflow path as possible and removing PCIe slot covers from back of case. I don't know what your definitlion of 'powerful fans' is, but I don't consider cc 400-1500rpm fans with 1.3-1.7mm H2O rating to be 'powerful' .. but just fans with the ability to do the job of case airflow properly.


----------



## Snorlord

But removing the front dust filters wouldn't this improve airflow as there is no obstacle and you don't need the static pressure? Other question isn't it smart to have 1 exhaust fan above the cpu cooler in this case as heat rises and the lack of an upper front intake fan for airflow?

Like this



Imagine there is no psu cover and 2 front 140mm fans. That and my cpu cooler only has a push fan.


----------



## Melcar

Only remove dust filters if your room is completely dust free and you have very weak fans. Good air filters on intakes and good strong fans are the way to go in most situations.
Top fans you generally don't need, unless you have a specific need (top mounted radiator for example). On a normal setup with no top fans, a tower cooler in a front to back orientation will suck air from the top forward vents and some exhaust will go out the back top, unless you have a strong exhaust fan on your rear panel. You have two options for the top if you really want fans there:

- Intake right above and in front of your CPU cooler and block off the rear top position
- Exhaust right behind the CPU cooler and maybe block off the forward vents on top

Neither of those options is optimal if you ask me. The first will take in more dust. It depends on your room, but generally dust in the air will settle on top of your case, so having intake fans there will just create a dusty mess inside your case. The second option is rather noisy, since you will have two fans pulling against each other creating turbulence. You are better off leaving the top vents empty or covering the whole area (this will greatly reduce noise).

I have that Phanteks case and my current setup is two front intakes + two top intakes. Have it like that because the TY-143s I have on the CPU cooler outrun the two front intakes at full blast.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> But removing the front dust filters wouldn't this improve airflow as there is no obstacle and you don't need the static pressure? Other question isn't it smart to have 1 exhaust fan above the cpu cooler in this case as heat rises and the lack of an upper front intake fan for airflow?
> 
> Like this
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine there is no psu cover and 2 front 140mm fans. That and my cpu cooler only has a push fan.


What @Melcar said.









Taking intake filters out so you can use inferior intake fans .. fans much inferior to the PH-F140SP or replacement fans used in newer cases (like in last year) that are basically SP motor and frame with a MP like impeller. These newer case fans move more air against resistance, especially at lower rpm.

Also, a bottom intake fan will not help unless you either remove the PSU shroud or put a vent in the shroud thereby giving the airflow the bottom intake can provide somewhere to go.


----------



## Melcar

I think he is running without the PSU cover, from his last post. But yeah, PSU shrouds are for looks and horrible for temps (specially for hot GPUs). If you can somehow link the bottom fan's rpm curve to your GPU load that would be ideal.


----------



## Snorlord

Okay so 2 front bitfenix pro fans as intake and 2 nzxt 140mm v2 radiator fans as intake on top and no exhaust fans as I understand the cpu fan will blow it all out. Will the scythe slipstream 140mm on my cpu cooler be strong enough to do the same as the TY-143s or does this need to be replaced?

Also I already removed the psu shroud as imo it doesn't add anything, I prefere to see the psu rather than being covered. But wouldn't a 5th intake at the bottom go against the airflow from the two front fans?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Okay so 2 front bitfenix pro fans as intake and 2 nzxt 140mm v2 radiator fans as intake on top and no exhaust fans as I understand the cpu fan will blow it all out. Will the scythe slipstream 140mm on my cpu cooler be strong enough to do the same as the TY-143s or does this need to be replaced?
> 
> Also I already removed the psu shroud as imo it doesn't add anything, I prefere to see the psu rather than being covered. But wouldn't a 5th intake at the bottom go against the airflow from the two front fans?


Where is the air 4x intake fans are capable of bringing into your case supposed to exhaust? Seems you have forgot that you need more exhaust vent area for air to leave case. In order for case to flow air in, it has to have an equal amount of air flowing out.









How can you not understand the difference in published specifications between TY-143 and Scythe Slipstream? .. Or are you just trying to troll us?


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Okay so 2 front bitfenix pro fans as intake and 2 nzxt 140mm v2 radiator fans as intake on top and no exhaust fans as I understand the cpu fan will blow it all out. Will the scythe slipstream 140mm on my cpu cooler be strong enough to do the same as the TY-143s or does this need to be replaced?
> 
> Also I already removed the psu shroud as imo it doesn't add anything, I prefere to see the psu rather than being covered. But wouldn't a 5th intake at the bottom go against the airflow from the two front fans?




That fan seems good, but not as strong as a TY-143. You may not need as much intake as I have. Depends on how strong the intake fans are, but with two front intakes you should have enough. To compare, the stock NF-A15 fan from my noctua pushes about the same amount of air as your Slip Stream and with two front PH-F140MPs I can keep it well fed with adequate air flow. I haven't looked at how good the fans you are planning to use as intake are, so can't really tell.
You will also ideally add an exhaust fan that is at least as strong as you Slip Stream.


----------



## Snorlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Where is the air 4x intake fans are capable of bringing into your case supposed to exhaust? Seems you have forgot that you need more exhaust vent area for air to leave case. In order for case to flow air in, it has to have an equal amount of air flowing out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can you not understand the difference in published specifications between TY-143 and Scythe Slipstream? .. Or are you just trying to troll us?


No, I have actually no idea of the specs of those two fans you didn't post me any specifications and you can not expect everyone to have a spec table of all fans in their head.

And as Melcar mentioned he is using 2 front intakes and 2 top intakes with the same case as me and the cpu fan is the exhaust as it blows the air out of the case. Did you even read what he said?

Edit: I just noticed now Melcar posted spec sheet.


----------



## Melcar

You can make do without an exhaust fan. The CPU fan will push air towards the rear of the case. But keep in mind that the rear fan grills offer resistance and will push back some of your airflow back towards the front. Therefore, a rear exhaust helps if temps are too much of a problem.


----------



## Snorlord

Okay so I put 2 intake fans at front and 1 in the back as exhaust and leave the top empty or should I put 2 intake fans at top aswell?


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Okay so I put 2 intake fans at front and 1 in the back as exhaust and leave the top empty or should I put 2 intake fans at top aswell?


Just don't use top fans for now. Run some stress testing to check if temps are okay. Do you have any way of measuring/reading your temperatures?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Okay so I put 2 intake fans at front and 1 in the back as exhaust and leave the top empty or should I put 2 intake fans at top aswell?


Try the first option first. Then the second option, never. ;-)

And spend the $10 on a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer - it's a simple but effective method to track air flow optimization. Not as good as getting case air flow advise on OCN, but we usually supply more hot air more often than not.


----------



## Snorlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> Just don't use top fans for now. Run some stress testing to check if temps are okay. Do you have any way of measuring/reading your temperatures?


Well I have this portable thermometer sensor thats meant for meassuring outside and inside your home temperatures guess it might aswell work with my case?


----------



## Snorlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Try the first option first. Then the second option, never. ;-)
> 
> And spend the $10 on a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer - it's a simple but effective method to track air flow optimization. Not as good as getting case air flow advise on OCN, but we usually supply more hot air more often than not.


I will meassure my temps tomorrow and post temps as it is late now.


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Well I have this portable thermometer sensor thats meant for meassuring outside and inside your home temperatures guess it might aswell work with my case?


Yes, you can use that to measure.


----------



## Melcar

Are these you Bitfenix fans?


----------



## Cyclops

Bitfenix Spectre Pro =


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Bitfenix Spectre Pro =


LOL! At least it has the word 'Pro' in it. Bitfennie's stock un-pro case fans are


----------



## Snorlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> LOL! At least it has the word 'Pro' in it. Bitfennie's stock un-pro case fans are


Note that these fans are already 3-4 years old, I bought them because I wanted led fans and these were only led fans with decent reviews at the time.

This is the fan I am using as only exhaust atm.




@Melcar
Edit: Those bitfenix pro non led might not be the same afterall mine do max 1200 RPM at 12V on his spec sheet he does 1700 RPM at 12V. Must be some other version as mine are not pwm but 3 pin fans.

This is the right model

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/bitfenix_spectre_pro_range_review/6


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> LOL! At least it has the word 'Pro' in it. Bitfennie's stock un-pro case fans are


Man, if I could only find the message they sent me after I asked for a review sample back in 2011 or whenever it was. They were claiming that unless it's under laboratory conditions, my tests are null and void, and therefore pointless to send samples in for testing, because as we all know, everybody run their PCs in laboratory conditions. Regardless, I thought at the time, alright well crap, maybe they are right and my tests aren't really accurate, except that they are highly repeatable with consistent results despite variable ambient conditions. Turns out they only needed a shill like Linus to put in a good word for them to sell like hotcakes.


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> Note that these fans are already 3-4 years old, I bought them because I wanted led fans and these were only led fans with decent reviews at the time.
> 
> This is the fan I am using as only exhaust atm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Melcar
> Edit: Those bitfenix pro non led might not be the same afterall mine do max 1200 RPM at 12V on his spec sheet he does 1700 RPM at 12V. Must be some other version as mine are not pwm but 3 pin fans.
> 
> This is the right model
> 
> https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/bitfenix_spectre_pro_range_review/6


Then they are likely to be too weak to provide adequate airflow. The exhaust is also too weak to keep up with the Scythe fan.
If you are getting new fans may as well get some good ones.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> LOL! At least it has the word 'Pro' in it. Bitfennie's stock un-pro case fans are


Found it!

"Hi C,

We will not be sending samples to any comparison reviews as temperatures, noise levels and air pressure is all dependent on the equipment used, heat sink used, and whether or not they are professional grade equipment being used to determine actual fan and air movement.

Noise levels will result and vary from person to person as sound frequency can differ from one ear to another.
Sound levels can differ from one radiator to another, which brings me to the temperatures as every heatsink will produce a different noise level as air travels through the fins within a certain amount of space.
Finally, noise level will require Anechoic chamber's and professional equipment.

Fans work differently in every case as the end-user's needs and parts used are different.

I hope you understand our perspective regarding fan comparisons.

I will say, however, your thread deserves a well round of applause from both the community and other vendors for the tedious work on the set up."


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Found it!
> 
> "Hi C,
> 
> We will not be sending samples to any comparison reviews as temperatures, noise levels and air pressure is all dependent on the equipment used, heat sink used, and whether or not they are professional grade equipment being used to determine actual fan and air movement.
> 
> Noise levels will result and vary from person to person as sound frequency can differ from one ear to another.
> Sound levels can differ from one radiator to another, which brings me to the temperatures as every heatsink will produce a different noise level as air travels through the fins within a certain amount of space.
> Finally, noise level will require Anechoic chamber's and professional equipment.
> 
> Fans work differently in every case as the end-user's needs and parts used are different.
> 
> I hope you understand our perspective regarding fan comparisons.
> 
> I will say, however, your thread deserves a well round of applause from both the community and other vendors for the tedious work on the set up."


Wow! That is just so snobbishly sweet! And so incredibly misguided.

And yet they're so right - because we can only hear fan noise in an anechoic chamber. Such a relief. The fan noise I hear on occasion must be from the snoring of cats.

Also, it seems that their fans are beyond compare - you're not allowed to compare them to other fans because you use a computer with a heatsink. How dare you! It's not fair!
















Maybe send them a new slogan:

Bitfenix - The Cooling Fan Choice of Cowards in Audio Test Labs Everywhere


----------



## Snorlord

@Melcar

Hmm but the Xigmatek does 71CFM at 1200rpm http://www.legitreviews.com/xigmatek-xaf-series-140mm-fan-round-up_1819/7

Well was going to buy these nzxt 140mm v2 radiator fans anyway. Going to replace these bitfenix with these. I am gonna keep the Xigmatek though as it's not a bad fan.


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Wow! That is just so snobbishly sweet! And so incredibly misguided.
> 
> And yet they're so right - because we can only hear fan noise in an anechoic chamber. Such a relief. The fan noise I hear on occasion must be from the snoring of cats.
> 
> Also, it seems that their fans are beyond compare - you're not allowed to compare them to other fans because you use a computer with a heatsink. How dare you! It's not fair!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe send them a new slogan:
> 
> Bitfenix - The Cooling Fan Choice of Cowards in Audio Test Labs Everywhere


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snorlord*
> 
> @Melcar
> 
> Hmm but the Xigmatek does 71CFM at 1200rpm http://www.legitreviews.com/xigmatek-xaf-series-140mm-fan-round-up_1819/7
> 
> Well was going to buy these nzxt 140mm v2 radiator fans anyway. Going to replace these bitfenix with these. I am gonna keep the Xigmatek though as it's not a bad fan.


I did not see static pressure measurements there, it seems it's just a free air test. I doubt the fan will really push 71cfm when inside a case.
What you can do is set those two Bitfenix fans as exhaust, the Xigmatek as a bottom intake, and buy two better fans for your front intakes. I'm partial to the Phanteks SP fans, they should do well even with a filter. I think something like that would provide good airflow inside the case without spending too much on new fans.


----------



## epic1337

well i have xigmatek's XOF 120mm fans and they're pretty decent.

i don't have any measuring tools but from what i can compare it with its about as good as NF-S12A.
decent airflow against grills, low noise, the only concern would be lifespan since its using sleeve bearings.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

I've passively followed this thread over the years and I don't think I ever saw it mentioned for certain, but how far away do you take decibel measurements from the fans? I always wondered cause some of the scores seem awfully high...


----------



## dwolvin

There really is about no standard- but good sites will tell you the ambient sound floor and distance and angle of measurement at the least.


----------



## nanotm

most test labs take the measurement at a set distance of around 20 cm, because half the world has the pc case sat on the desk showing off its awesome rgbness and that's the rough distance from the edge of the case to the ear of the user.....

you might have a larger desk or a smaller one or you might have the case sat in a cupboard several meters away on long leads... if you want to test something for noise get a dbm measuring app on your phone and listen for how loud something is in your setup situation (the absolute loudest thing at idle in my pc is the psu fan that randomly jumps in at full power for a few seconds before spinning down, under full power nothing beats the gfx card for noise, odd because I never noiticed the psu fan before getting mlpro's as case fans.....)


----------



## Snorlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> I did not see static pressure measurements there, it seems it's just a free air test. I doubt the fan will really push 71cfm when inside a case.
> What you can do is set those two Bitfenix fans as exhaust, the Xigmatek as a bottom intake, and buy two better fans for your front intakes. I'm partial to the Phanteks SP fans, they should do well even with a filter. I think something like that would provide good airflow inside the case without spending too much on new fans.


I do have the one phanteks 140sp left running at the bottom of my case. I think im going for the nzxt fans as they are half the price of the 140sp. Are the Phanteks 140sp led fans the same as these are cheaper?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> I've passively followed this thread over the years and I don't think I ever saw it mentioned for certain, but how far away do you take decibel measurements from the fans? I always wondered cause some of the scores seem awfully high...


Accredited labs use the standard 1 meter distance for dB reading, but most reviewers (maybe all) use 20-30 cm. 40dB at 20 cm is 26 dB at 1 meter. I think the measuring dB at 20cm can be attributed to 3 primary reasons; 1/ most smaller test facilities do not have room in their sound room to measure from 1 meter, 2/ most don't have sound rooms with less then a 25-30dB floor sound level, and 3/ most don't have the money to afford sound meters that register lower than 25-30dB.

Also keep in mind most commercial test labs only give sound level readings for unobstructed free airflow .. and this is much quieter than in normal use behind grill and filter or in front of a grill.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nanotm*
> 
> most test labs take the measurement at a set distance of around 20 cm, because half the world has the pc case sat on the desk showing off its awesome rgbness and that's the rough distance from the edge of the case to the ear of the user.....
> 
> you might have a larger desk or a smaller one or you might have the case sat in a cupboard several meters away on long leads... if you want to test something for noise get a dbm measuring app on your phone and listen for how loud something is in your setup situation (the absolute loudest thing at idle in my pc is the psu fan that randomly jumps in at full power for a few seconds before spinning down, under full power nothing beats the gfx card for noise, odd because I never noiticed the psu fan before getting mlpro's as case fans.....)


20 cm!?!? I highly doubt the average user sits with their tower a couple inches left or right of their shoulder. The front of my tower is roughly 2.5 feet (75cm) from my head at my desk, close enough that the power button is within arms reach while seated. I used to have 2 of the stock Corsairs (that came with the H100i) and two of the Corsair Air Series SP120 HP... which do run louder than what they rate them at, but a few months back I switched to the Noctua Industrials, (NF-F12 iPPC-3000 PWM) and have hardly ever hear them. Grant it that may be due to running them in push pull and the fact that they generate ridiculous static pressure compared to the Corsairs, but I doubt they've ever gone much above 40db, my GPU gets loud while gaming for sure. But the Noctua have been noticeably quieter than the Corsair for me.

To put it into perspective, a whispered conversation is about 25-30 db. Normal conversation in a small room is about 40-45, a crowded room with loud conversation is about 60-70 (think of a bar with the jukebox turned down a bit). A rock concert is about 80-90, and a jet engine revving up at 100 yards or a very loud sports stadium is about 90-100. Artillery firing15 feet is at least rates about 110db. And at 15 ft parallel to your left ear, it's enough intensity that after that night I knew I had a perforated eardrum and would have tinnitus, I also couldn't hear out of my left ear for about 36 hours, lol... combat, so fun. Before you ask, my tower is on the right side of my desk lol.


----------



## nanotm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> 20 cm!?!? I highly doubt the average user sits with their tower a couple inches left or right of their shoulder. The front of my tower is roughly 2.5 feet (75cm) from my head at my desk, close enough that the power button is within arms reach while seated. I used to have 2 of the stock Corsairs (that came with the H100i) and two of the Corsair Air Series SP120 HP... which do run louder than what they rate them at, but a few months back I switched to the Noctua Industrials, (NF-F12 iPPC-3000 PWM) and have hardly ever hear them. Grant it that may be due to running them in push pull and the fact that they generate ridiculous static pressure compared to the Corsairs, but I doubt they've ever gone much above 40db, my GPU gets loud while gaming for sure. But the Noctua have been noticeably quieter than the Corsair for me.
> 
> To put it into perspective, a whispered conversation is about 25-30 db. Normal conversation in a small room is about 40-45, a crowded room with loud conversation is about 60-70 (think of a bar with the jukebox turned down a bit). A rock concert is about 80-90, and a jet engine revving up at 100 yards or a very loud sports stadium is about 90-100. Artillery firing15 feet is at least rates about 110db. And at 15 ft parallel to your left ear, it's enough intensity that after that night I knew I had a perforated eardrum and would have tinnitus, I also couldn't hear out of my left ear for about 36 hours, lol... combat, so fun. Before you ask, my tower is on the right side of my desk lol.


then your similar to myself, I prefer an empty desk so the case sits underneath it, however that doesn't diminish the fact so many folks make it look pretty and shove it on the desk top so they can look at it all the time (and probably barely spare it a glance most days)

with respect to the noise levels it depends on the household or indeed the weapon system, I hope you remembered to close your eyes and open your mouth though, I've met a few guys that didn't and I gave most of them a wide berth









also background music is listed as 61>70, 70>80 is normally listed as a vacuum cleaner on most dBm charts ....


----------



## Skylinestar

Talking about fan with high static pressure, is it ok to use EK-Furious Vardar EVO 140 as case fan? The fan will blow through a HDD cage with 3.5" HDD and 2 SSD. I'm more worried about the fan noise.

I also notice that the central fan hub is kinda big (relative to fan diameter). Isn't that bad when used with a radiator where you lose a lot of cooling just below the fan hub?


----------



## war4peace

Noise perception is subjective. Personally I can't use Vardar fans because of their motor humming at all speeds. At high speed the hum is drowned by the air noise but at la speeds I found it annoying.
I have my 3 fans to a friend and he replaced them as well after a couple weeks.


----------



## kgtuning

Vardars can be loud depending on rpm. I use 8 FF4s but I don't mind louder fans. It's actually quite relaxing to me.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylinestar*
> 
> Talking about fan with high static pressure, is it ok to use EK-Furious Vardar EVO 140 as case fan? The fan will blow through a HDD cage with 3.5" HDD and 2 SSD. I'm more worried about the fan noise.
> 
> I also notice that the central fan hub is kinda big (relative to fan diameter). Isn't that bad when used with a radiator where you lose a lot of cooling just below the fan hub?


What war4peace and kgtuning said. Many Vardar users have had similar experiences.

In my experience higher the static pressure ratings translate into more airflow, especially at lower rpm .. and this is what we want from our case fans.

Big center hub is not a problem because it is a very small area and because the farther from center of impeller we go the more airflow it creates.


----------



## Jollyriffic

welp it's official, a post has so much great information that i've retained nothing.
anyone else like this, once there's too much data, advice, or simply choices your brain takes all the words you've read and throws them into a blender; leaving you with, thought dyslexia.

how about this, all those not affected like I am, what would you recommend if i want to control the fans via the motherboard headers OR suggest a independent unit to do so.
This is my rad http://hardwarelabs.com/nemesis/gtx/420gtx/
Motherboard is asrock professional gaming x399 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157784

I want good cooling but i'd like the fans to shut up, as i'll be doing live video and recordings.
the cpu is going to be 1950x and would like to give it a modest to ridiculous overclock.

maybe options for pull or p/p


----------



## nanotm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> welp it's official, a post has so much great information that i've retained nothing.
> anyone else like this, once there's too much data, advice, or simply choices your brain takes all the words you've read and throws them into a blender; leaving you with, thought dyslexia.
> 
> how about this, all those not affected like I am, what would you recommend if i want to control the fans via the motherboard headers OR suggest a independent unit to do so.
> This is my rad http://hardwarelabs.com/nemesis/gtx/420gtx/
> Motherboard is asrock professional gaming x399 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157784
> 
> I want good cooling but i'd like the fans to shut up, as i'll be doing live video and recordings.
> the cpu is going to be 1950x and would like to give it a modest to ridiculous overclock.
> 
> maybe options for pull or p/p


get some good pwm fans run them via a sata or molex based pwm extender and control them via software through your mobo pwm outlet (which should in theory be the cpu fan header) if your after a cheaper option that is, if money is no object then go for a more expensive control option with better software like the corsair commander pro (I would still use the pwm extender though due to power draw) which would also let you add in corsair rgb lighting kits and give a single software interface (well you can get similar via aorus or hue controllers) or you can go for top of the line control via an aquero (but that really is money doesn't matter territory)

as to the fans, your options are corsair ML pro, ek varders or sw3 for performance options that run slow and don't make much noise /


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> welp it's official, a post has so much great information that i've retained nothing.
> anyone else like this, once there's too much data, advice, or simply choices your brain takes all the words you've read and throws them into a blender; leaving you with, thought dyslexia.
> 
> how about this, all those not affected like I am, what would you recommend if i want to control the fans via the motherboard headers OR suggest a independent unit to do so.
> This is my rad http://hardwarelabs.com/nemesis/gtx/420gtx/
> Motherboard is asrock professional gaming x399 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157784
> 
> I want good cooling but i'd like the fans to shut up, as i'll be doing live video and recordings.
> the cpu is going to be 1950x and would like to give it a modest to ridiculous overclock.
> 
> maybe options for pull or p/p


1. Aquaero 6 (LT/PRO/XT, whichever you feel like getting)
2. 1x Inline or G1/4 temp sensor (to measure liquid temperature)
3. 6x Noctua NF A14 PWM (push/pull) all going to the Aquaero Port 1 PWM (alternatively, PUSH fans could go to port 1 and PULL to port 2)
4. Set the Aquaero up through Aquasuite any way you see fit, with fans ramping up based on liquid temperature.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

If you're running the fans through a controller, the Noctua Industrial Series are a good route to go, when you're doing your live stream you can set them to a specific speed where there should be no audible noise from them... and with the static pressure they can generate even running them at 50-60% speed they'll remain pretty quiet but with excellent airflow through a radiator.

http://noctua.at/en/products/product-line-industrial/nf-a14-industrialppc-3000-pwm/specification

They're not cheap, about $28 a piece usually, but even up to 1500 rpm they shouldn't get very loud and still be able to generate significantly better static pressure than basically any other fans on the market outside of server grade 38mm thick fans.


----------



## Melcar

There are better fans for the price.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> There are better fans for the price.


Please elaborate.


----------



## doyll

If you an get them, Thermalright TY-147A are1300rpm with same performance at same rpm. and performance for about 16.68 euro be quiet! Silent Loop 3 PWM high speed are another. Normal NF-A14 has same performance at same rpm and quieter. Many buyers of industrials were not happy with their noise, but the are industrial fans, not designed with quiet motors like NF-A14 uses.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you an get them, Thermalright TY-147A are1300rpm with same performance at same rpm. and performance for about 16.68 euro be quiet! Silent Loop 3 PWM high speed are another. Normal NF-A14 has same performance at same rpm and quieter. Many buyers of industrials were not happy with their noise, but the are industrial fans, not designed with quiet motors like NF-A14 uses.


The context of usage is why I recommended the Noctua. He said they'd be operated on a controller, and as such they can be limited to no more than 1500 RPM, where they'll run less than 30db, even on a radiator, and at that speed still push excellent airflow and generate more pressure than 99% of fans on the market can do at max speed.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> The context of usage is why I recommended the Noctua. He said they'd be operated on a controller, and as such they can be limited to no more than 1500 RPM, where they'll run less than 30db, even on a radiator, and at that speed still push excellent airflow and generate more pressure than 99% of fans on the market can do at max speed.


Noctua industrial fans are louder then and sound profile is not as pleasant to the ears of most users as consumer fans are .. even at same speed. Their motors are not as quiet, their PWM circuitry tends to click .. just not as quiet because they are not designed to be as quiet. Low noise is not a important in commercial applications.


----------



## Melcar

If he will run them at that speed (1500rpm or so), those Noctuas are a waste. Thermalright fans perform similar if not the same. The PH-F140MP has more sp and slightly lower airflow than Noctua fans at similar speeds. Both are considerably cheaper. If he wants the option to be able to crank up the fans +2000rpm when needed then fine, but fans like Vardars perform better (maybe a bit noisier and with a more "rough" sound) and are for the most part also cheaper.
I would only invest in such fans if I had the need to run them faster that 2K rpm most of the time. Say a highly overclocked system that almost never goes to idle and 2*C is the difference between a stable system and an unstable one. Don't get me wrong, I like fast fans, but I have learned over the years that slower fans can do as good as a job as long as you have good airflow and ambient temps.


----------



## Jollyriffic

well after looking at the controlers listed, they are just going to fan headers on the mobo.
no way i'm dumping over $100 to have convenience of a fan controller.


----------



## war4peace

As someone who desperately tried to avoid Noctua's awful color scheme, I used the following (I don't remember the exact specs but still):
- Arctic Colling _el cheapo_ 1500 RPM fans: poor performance.
- Cooler Master MasterFan AP @2650 RPM: horrible rattling at almost all speeds.
- Vardars @1850 RPM, 2200 RPM: humming at low speeds.
- Phanteks 120mm (don't remember the exact name but they were AP fans): rattling at 1000-1200 RPM, humming below that.

...so I ended up with Noctua NF-F12 after all. Note I am not a fan, nor a shill, they were just last resort for me and they just work. The color scheme still sucks but oh well.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> well after looking at the controlers listed, they are just going to fan headers on the mobo.
> no way i'm dumping over $100 to have convenience of a fan controller.


If you think of the Aquaero 6 as a "fan controller", think again.
It's like saying "I'm not going to dump 200K on a Lamborghini just to have convenience of a car".
The Aquaero 6 is a life-changer.


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> well after looking at the controlers listed, they are just going to fan headers on the mobo.
> no way i'm dumping over $100 to have convenience of a fan controller.


Out of curiosity, what on earth controllers where you looking at that cost over $100? There are plenty of good options for significantly less that $100. Most fans take 4-5 watts at full speed, and the average controller is capable of handling at least 2-3 fans per channel... many are capable of running 4-6 fans per channel.


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpacemanSpliff*
> 
> The context of usage is why I recommended the Noctua. He said they'd be operated on a controller, and as such they can be limited to no more than 1500 RPM, where they'll run less than 30db, even on a radiator, and at that speed still push excellent airflow and generate more pressure than 99% of fans on the market can do at max speed.


Why would you buy the Industrial version if you only plan to run them at 1500rpm? Just get the regular version which tops out at 1500 if that is the goal. There are also a surprising amount of other good 14cm fans available at the moment.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> well after looking at the controlers listed, they are just going to fan headers on the mobo.
> no way i'm dumping over $100 to have convenience of a fan controller.


You should probably be fine just running them through a splitter and on to your board, if not then something like the Swiftech PWM hub (there are other alternatives as well, but this is what first came to mind) should work fine if you are concerned about the board not giving enough power.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> If you think of the Aquaero 6 as a "fan controller", think again.
> It's like saying "I'm not going to dump 200K on a Lamborghini just to have convenience of a car".
> The Aquaero 6 is a life-changer.


Yeah,but you wouldn't buy a lambo to go grocery shopping either. So there isn't a point in recommending something if something a tenth of the price will do just fine for that specific task.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rainmaker91*
> 
> Yeah,but you wouldn't buy a lambo to go grocery shopping either. So there isn't a point in recommending something if something a tenth of the price will do just fine for that specific task.


We're talking about watercooling here. That type of watercooling where an Aquaero 6 LT costs at most 20% of the watercooling parts anyway, not to mention the rest of the system. We're talking about Threadripper 1950X, X399 board, etc. Would you really cheap out after all that spending? Point is, he already got the Lambo, or so he says. And for that specific task, I don't see a regular fan controller being able to deal with all the required functionality, but then again, maybe some people are into manually tuning their fan speeds very often using knobs


----------



## nanotm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> well after looking at the controlers listed, they are just going to fan headers on the mobo.
> no way i'm dumping over $100 to have convenience of a fan controller.


use a pwm splitter that also has the power connector to plug all the fans into it so they work at the same speed (you only get the speed reported for the first fan, but all of them should be running at the same speed as there all getting the same pulse signal) this helps to cut down on acoustics as well especially in push pull configurations on a radiator (but its best to put the fans in pairs (like outputs 1+3 and 2+4 on the splitters I've looked at)

a good pwm controller is an expensive beast and like many things you get what you pay for, of course you can get a decent 3pin fan controller for under $30, and the fans are cheaper two although they don't often have the same low speed characteristics common with pwm fans

if your radiator is mounted horizontally then ml pro fans are a good option in terms of low noise at low speed operations (I have 4 of them in push pull on my h115i and they make less noise than the psu fan does until they go above 55% (which is about 1100rpm) and run as low as 400 rpm......
although most of the time I have them sitting around 850>900 keeping my cpu below 45 degrees (fx8350 @4.6Ghz) so my use will be different to yours and your experience might be different, low speed low noise fans is always use and individual subjective in terms of "good enough" or "hurricane in my ears"

of course a half decent mic with noise cancelling shouldn't hear the fans regardless of how loud they are during a stream so there shouldn't really be any problem with any fan other than if you can hear it over the headphones....


----------



## Rainmaker91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> We're talking about watercooling here. That type of watercooling where an Aquaero 6 LT costs at most 20% of the watercooling parts anyway, not to mention the rest of the system. We're talking about Threadripper 1950X, X399 board, etc. Would you really cheap out after all that spending? Point is, he already got the Lambo, or so he says. And for that specific task, I don't see a regular fan controller being able to deal with all the required functionality, but then again, maybe some people are into manually tuning their fan speeds very often using knobs


I get your point, but there really isn't a need to get more than what is needed for a specific task. I'm not talkiing about cheaping out on the price here, but rather jsut getting the thing that you specifically need. The reason I'm not gettign an Aquaero (though with the amount of fans I have I damned near bought one on impulse) is simply that I don't need any added functionality than just setting my fan at a specific speed. So for a long time I have used just simple (but strong) voltage regulated fan controllers for my voltage fans since I simply don't need more functionality than that. I'm currently in the process of changing to PWM fans and am looking at a PWM fan hub as I simply don't need more than that (though with 16 radiator fans and another 3 case fans I need powerful circuitry on the hub).

So while Aquaero is a really good device, not everybody needs the added functionality and it's a waste to buy stuff that you don't really need/use in my mind.


----------



## doyll

Depending on needs aquaeroo 5 LT might fit your needs. Also, LT model is same as others, just not 5.25" panel to fit in front of case. I have aquaero 5 LT and XT. I never use front controls. I find it much easier to use mouse and monitor.


----------



## jura11

I would agree with @doyll suggestions on fans,TY-147A are very nice fans and BeQuiet Silent Wings 3 are very nice fans, I like as well Phanteks PH-F140MP fans which are very nice fans for money but if its possible then TY-147ASQ are fans which I would choose

For air cooling or air cooled PC I wouldn't suggest get Aquaero is not worth it,unless you are water cooling PC then I would go with Aquaero

Aquaero offers lots options and for air cooling would offers bit more control based on air delta T or on ambient temperature but still many motherboard offers great PWM control and some can accommodate T_sensors which can measure ambient or water temperature

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura


----------



## doyll

What @Jura11 said. I'm running 5 systems and only reason I have aquaero 5 controllers is I got 5 Pro with remote used for £40 and 5 LT was about £50 new way back when I was running custom loop .. and before motherboards had many PWM fan headers or good good fan control features built into them.. Most modern motherboards have 3+PWM headers with CPU, motherboard and/or GPU temp to speed custom curves with windows utility software that is easy to learn to use.

New aquaero 5 LT is only £45.76, and that's not a lot of money for 2x PWM, even without all the other things aquaero can do. Once you learn just how much you can do with aquaero controllers besides control fans' speed I think you might change your mind. A few extras like temperature probes to monitor case airflow, even room temp, etc. But they won't give you a massage or wash windows.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What @Jura11 said. I'm running 5 systems and only reason I have aquaero 5 controllers is I got 5 Pro with remote used for £40 and 5 LT was about £50 new way back when I was running custom loop .. and before motherboards had many PWM fan headers or good good fan control features built into them.. Most modern motherboards have 3+PWM headers with CPU, motherboard and/or GPU temp to speed custom curves with windows utility software that is easy to learn to use.
> 
> New aquaero 5 LT is only £45.76, and that's not a lot of money for 2x PWM, even without all the other things aquaero can do. Once you learn just how much you can do with aquaero controllers besides control fans' speed I think you might change your mind. A few extras like temperature probes to monitor case airflow, even room temp, etc. But they won't give you a massage or wash windows.


Won't wash windows?







What the heck use is it?


----------



## SpacemanSpliff

He is using a Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 420mm rad... this is what the fans will be applied to.


----------



## Jollyriffic

well to the lambo comment and 1950x..
part of the reason i'm not looking at over $100 for the controller is because this build has me broke. I'm using a $20 gtx 560ti just to have video.
I did some digging and talking with corsair, i might be getting the CORSAIR Commander PRO and their ml140 fans sent to me along with a psu. The psu alone is a sure thing but i think my contact there forgot i had a 420 rad and said he would do that and a liquid cooler.
He's dealing with all the events going on right now so i'm just waiting to hear back about the parts i need and the parts i just want.

if it takes too much longer, might just have to go with the noctua, i'd pay out of pocket but after the build videos are done, there would be a return to me on the cash.
would rather deal with corsair, since i don't have to order, then do refunds.. not sure why noctua doesn't work like everyone else, but i dislike doing that method and have been doing that with other stuff this past year.

With the commander pro, there's all the rgb lighting stuff i can control also. So if i take it to events, i can bling it out for the kiddies and people that like rainbows puking out of every last inch of the system.
I also asked them about the 570x glass case, it would have to be dremeled/modded to fit the rad as the front only supports up to 3x 120mm but that's no biggy. if that's not an option then i said 900d but that thing is so massive that it's not really what i want to go with.

There's one thing i found yesterday that i really want http://www.aerocool.us/dreambox/dreambox.html
Can just build my own case in any size i want. i emailed them but they also are likely doing all the event plugging, so not sure if i'll hear back from them for a while.

I'd really like to get moving forward, i'm on this garbage laptop with a6-3400 cpu. feel like my tablet from 2011 has 3x the performance of this garbage.
It's testing my limits on how long i can sit here with all these parts and do nothing with them while i wait on emails.. completely losing my composure.


----------



## czin125

Kind of interesting with replacing a gpu's stock fans
2x120mm fans ( 1200-1500 rpm ) seem to outperform the stock 3x92mm by about 8C ( 66C -> 58C )

1987mhz -> 2038mhz


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of interesting with replacing a gpu's stock fans
> 2x120mm fans ( 1200-1500 rpm ) seem to outperform the stock 3x92mm by about 8C ( 66C -> 58C )
> 
> 1987mhz -> 2038mhz


Bigger fans move more air, more news at 11.


----------



## Melcar

No surprise. Been doing that to most of my cards. Even small 92x25 mm fans do a much better job at cooling. 120x25 or 140x25 are ideal since they move air from the around the card too, resulting in lower case temps. Not to mention that they are much quieter. Only downsides are increased size and clearance issues, and increased weight pulling at the card.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *czin125*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of interesting with replacing a gpu's stock fans
> 2x120mm fans ( 1200-1500 rpm ) seem to outperform the stock 3x92mm by about 8C ( 66C -> 58C )
> 
> 1987mhz -> 2038mhz


Many of us have done similar with 92, 120 and even 140mm fans on stock GPU coolers. It's the poor-man's way of improving GPU cooling and lowering noise levels.


----------



## jura11

Hi guys

Here is the test of Raijintek Morpheus II cooler on AMD Vega






But personally I wouldn't use as he used ID cooling fans

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura


----------



## imthe9co




----------



## imthe9co




----------



## Shawn Shutt jr

do we have data on those new pretty RGB corsair fans


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imthe9co*


Data? Corsail does't need no stinkin' data! RGB, bling rings and lots of hype is king!


----------



## Shawn Shutt jr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Data? Corsail does't need no stinkin' data! RGB, bling rings and lots of hype is king!


True its RGB, who cares if they cool good or noise is low


----------



## epic1337

ohhh, you guys gave me an idea with my HD7950.

i once cleaned it up by removing the shroud and fans, so its easy to access the bare heatsink.
the problem however i have no access to decent 92mm fans.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Hello,
I'll soon be an owner of a Corsair 900D. I want to swap its fans to better ones.
I have a swiftech fan hub (http://www.swiftech.com/8-WayPWMsplitter-sata.aspx) if that matter.
I saw some owners that swap the fans to AF120/AF140. Since I'm on watercooling, I do not need high speed fans (please confirm), my guess would be around 800/1200 RPMS.

Any advices of whats fans to chose (3x120 and 1x140) ?
Cheers


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> ohhh, you guys gave me an idea with my HD7950.
> 
> i once cleaned it up by removing the shroud and fans, so its easy to access the bare heatsink.
> the problem however i have no access to decent 92mm fans.


I've found Arctic F9 work well and are very low cost here. If same there might be worth a try.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Hello,
> I'll soon be an owner of a Corsair 900D. I want to swap its fans to better ones.
> I have a swiftech fan hub (http://www.swiftech.com/8-WayPWMsplitter-sata.aspx) if that matter.
> I saw some owners that swap the fans to AF120/AF140. Since I'm on watercooling, I do not need high speed fans (please confirm), my guess would be around 800/1200 RPMS.
> 
> Any advices of whats fans to chose (3x120 and 1x140) ?
> Cheers


I wouldn't use any AF fans. They cannot overcome grill and filter resistance. There are many better fans like Phanteks, Thermalright TY-14x series, be quiet! Silent Wings 3, Noctua NF-A14, etc.


----------



## epic1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I've found Arctic F9 work well and are very low cost here. If same there might be worth a try.


well, besides generic china LED fan, they don't seem to sell either 80mm or 92mm.
all of the inventories here are either 120mm or 140mm, and a few brands to boot, phanteks or Vardar for example doesn't exist here.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epic1337*
> 
> well, besides generic china LED fan, they don't seem to sell either 80mm or 92mm.
> all of the inventories here are either 120mm or 140mm, and a few brands to boot, phanteks or Vardar for example doesn't exist here.


Not many 92mm fans available these days. Maybe try emailing Arctic and ask where you can get some.
www.arctic.ac


----------



## bl4ckdot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I wouldn't use any AF fans. They cannot overcome grill and filter resistance. There are many better fans like Phanteks, Thermalright TY-14x series, be quiet! Silent Wings 3, Noctua NF-A14, etc.


Thank you. Between these, do you know if one of them has a better sound "signature" ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Thank you. Between these, do you know if one of them has a better sound "signature" ?


My favorites are TY-147A (300-1300rpm) and if you what extreme airflow (& noise to match) TY-143 (500-2500rpm). Both sound and perform same at same rpm.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> My favorites are TY-147A (300-1300rpm) and if you what extreme airflow (& noise to match) TY-143 (500-2500rpm). Both sound and perform same at same rpm.


Are you specifically talking about the TY-147A, or are TY-147A SQ the same ?
Are the TY127 also good for the front ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Are you specifically talking about the TY-147A, or are TY-147A SQ the same ?
> Are the TY127 also good for the front ?


TY-147A and TY-147A SQ are same fan in different housings.
TY-147A uses a (152x140mm) rounded housing with 120mm fan (105mm) mounting holes.
TY-147A SQ uses a 140mm square housing with 140mm fan mounting holes.
TY-127 is a smaller (130x120mm) fan with round housing with mounting hole spacig of 105x83mm. I have only used the on coolers they come on.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> TY-147A and TY-147A SQ are same fan in different housings.
> TY-147A uses a (152x140mm) rounded housing with 120mm fan (105mm) mounting holes.
> TY-147A SQ uses a 140mm square housing with 140mm fan mounting holes.
> TY-127 is a smaller (130x120mm) fan with round housing with mounting hole spacig of 105x83mm. I have only used the on coolers they come on.


Alright, thank you again. So a TY-147A and 3 SILENT WINGS 3 120 at the front would be pretty good, right ?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Alright, thank you again. So a TY-147A and 3 SILENT WINGS 3 120 at the front would be pretty good, right ?


I would use 2x TY-147A or 2x Silent Wings 3 140mm. 2x 140mm tend to move same air at lowr loise level than 3x 120mm fans. But also depends on case vent area and fan mounts not blocking airflow area.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I would use 2x TY-147A or 2x Silent Wings 3 140mm. 2x 140mm tend to move same air at lowr loise level than 3x 120mm fans. But also depends on case vent area and fan mounts not blocking airflow area.


Thing is I can't mount 140mm at the front of the 900D, only 3x120mm


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Thing is I can't mount 140mm at the front of the 900D, only 3x120mm


Then 3x 120mm








I would probably use the high speed 2200rpm model over 1450rpm model because these have a PWM % to rpm that is extremely agressive from 95% to 100% .. like 400rpm. Using higher speed fan means at 95% they are at about 1375rpm.
This way you can adjust the PWM to rpm curve easier and if system is getting really hot the fans can run faster and keep things cool. Only down side is at higher rpm you will hear their louder noise level.


----------



## Jollyriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Thing is I can't mount 140mm at the front of the 900D, only 3x120mm


DREMEL IT

that's actually the plan i had for most of the cases that support 3x 120mm setups. The space is actually there, they just didn't cut enough room on the top and bottom of the fron't plate.
You may also need to run your own holes for the rad to mount.
easy way to do that is just tape two sheets of paper together (so they are longer) then tape it to the rad (widthwise) color in the holes, then transfer that paper to the front of the interior case (the metal area) pop some holes with the drill and presto.

I'm now considering building my own (from nothing to something), IF i can get a PSU for next to nothing or sent by a company.


----------



## xethi

i can also say that 147a have a nice sound signature but its very personal but first fan i can tolerate at 100% .

doyll you seem the expert of thermalright want to ask i have le grandmacho rt and bent one of the fan clip which is anoying before i figured how to put it but was too late.any idea if ziptie is a good alternative .

also did you try 2 fan on this cooler by chance? how much of an improvement is possible you think temp wise?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xethi*
> 
> i can also say that 147a have a nice sound signature but its very personal but first fan i can tolerate at 100% .
> 
> doyll you seem the expert of thermalright want to ask i have le grandmacho rt and bent one of the fan clip which is anoying before i figured how to put it but was too late.any idea if ziptie is a good alternative .
> 
> also did you try 2 fan on this cooler by chance? how much of an improvement is possible you think temp wise?


If fan clip is bent can't you just bend it back? Yes, you cold use zip-ties. Either use one with big enough end it won't slide between fins or put something like a washer on it so it holes against fins, feed it though fins & fan and slip another zip-tie onto it to lock fan in place. Then clip off excess zip-tie. Job done.

I have not tried double fans. I doubt push/pull will help much if any, Reason is cooler fins are relatively low resistance so going push/pull does not increase flow significantly, But a higher airflow fan might .. most coolers cool better with higher airflow. I would try something like TY-143 or maybe Silverstone FHP141. Sorry, but I can't play with it right now. I'm trying to build a new fan test station that will give me both airflow speed / cfm and static pressure data. Problems are many but biggest is fans make so little pressure it requires what to me is very expensive equipment (like £300+) which is way out of my budget. I'm still running all x58 systems with newest being i7 6700K and newest GPU is a KFA2 GTX 770 LTD OC. Next best GPU is ASUS GTX 580 DirectCU II


----------



## bl4ckdot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jollyriffic*
> 
> DREMEL IT
> 
> that's actually the plan i had for most of the cases that support 3x 120mm setups. The space is actually there, they just didn't cut enough room on the top and bottom of the fron't plate.
> You may also need to run your own holes for the rad to mount.
> easy way to do that is just tape two sheets of paper together (so they are longer) then tape it to the rad (widthwise) color in the holes, then transfer that paper to the front of the interior case (the metal area) pop some holes with the drill and presto.
> 
> I'm now considering building my own (from nothing to something), IF i can get a PSU for next to nothing or sent by a company.


Not sure about dremel ..

BUT I see that you actually fix them on 120mm holes : http://thermalright.com/product/ty-147a/
Or am I dreaming ?


----------



## epic1337

certain 140mm fans have 120mm mounting holes, so yes its possible.


----------



## Smanci

I do have a TY-147A istalled on 120mm mount. Sound signature of the fan itself is pleasant but too small of an opening means turbulence.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bl4ckdot*
> 
> Not sure about dremel ..
> 
> BUT I see that you actually fix them on 120mm holes : http://thermalright.com/product/ty-147a/
> Or am I dreaming ?


Yes, it does use 120mm fan mounting holes. The holes are 105mm center to center.


----------



## bl4ckdot

Sweet, I'm going for 147A then. Thank you again everyone


----------



## czin125

Is there a test where all 2000-4000 rpm fans are set to 1500rpm and 1200rpm through a radiator ( 30 fpi ).

The GTs have lower cfm/rpm on paper but they seem to produce less noise and outperform other fans.

http://www.overclockers.com/pwm-fan-roundup-twenty-four-120-mm-case-fans-tested/


----------



## GraveNoX

1700X @ 3.9 @ 1.425 LLC3 on Asus C6H on Fractal Design R5 White no window.
TY-143 blowing into TR TS140P at 850rpm at idle/browsing, 1300rpm on gaming, super silent, quieter than 147A at same RPM, but TY-143 has way more headroom
TY-147A pulling from TS140P at 700rpm at idle/browsing, 900rpm on gaming, super silent
TY-143 on the back of the case, 0rpm at idle/browsing, 1300 on gaming, somehow louder than all the other, any fan becomes louder when used on the back.

In PWM mode, TY-143 runs from 300 RPM to 2400 RPM, just amazing. It's the endgame fan for me. Powerful, dead silent when is needed.

It blows air almost in a straight line and it's very very smooth, is not turbulent. Is like flowing water through a pipe.

The downside is that TY-143 should not be used to suck air from a dust filter or a radiator, only blow air into, otherwise it becomes very noisy.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> 1700X @ 3.9 @ 1.425 LLC3 on Asus C6H on Fractal Design R5 White no window.
> TY-143 blowing into TR TS140P at 850rpm at idle/browsing, 1300rpm on gaming, super silent, quieter than 147A at same RPM, but TY-143 has way more headroom
> TY-147A pulling from TS140P at 700rpm at idle/browsing, 900rpm on gaming, super silent
> TY-143 on the back of the case, 0rpm at idle/browsing, 1300 on gaming, somehow louder than all the other, any fan becomes louder when used on the back.
> 
> In PWM mode, TY-143 runs from 300 RPM to 2400 RPM, just amazing. It's the endgame fan for me. Powerful, dead silent when is needed.
> 
> It blows air almost in a straight line and it's very very smooth, is not turbulent. Is like flowing water through a pipe.
> 
> The downside is that TY-143 should not be used to suck air from a dust filter or a radiator, only blow air into, otherwise it becomes very noisy.


I agree with everything but idle RPM on PWM is 550-600rpm, not 300rpm .. and your last sentence. I've used TY-143 and other TY-14x series fans as intakes on several build and found them to be as quiet and often quieter than other fans running at same rpm.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> 1700X @ 3.9 @ 1.425 LLC3 on Asus C6H on Fractal Design R5 White no window.
> TY-143 blowing into TR TS140P at 850rpm at idle/browsing, 1300rpm on gaming, super silent, quieter than 147A at same RPM, but TY-143 has way more headroom
> TY-147A pulling from TS140P at 700rpm at idle/browsing, 900rpm on gaming, super silent
> TY-143 on the back of the case, 0rpm at idle/browsing, 1300 on gaming, somehow louder than all the other, any fan becomes louder when used on the back.
> 
> In PWM mode, TY-143 runs from 300 RPM to 2400 RPM, just amazing. It's the endgame fan for me. Powerful, dead silent when is needed.
> 
> It blows air almost in a straight line and it's very very smooth, is not turbulent. Is like flowing water through a pipe.
> 
> The downside is that TY-143 should not be used to suck air from a dust filter or a radiator, only blow air into, otherwise it becomes very noisy.


300RPM on PWM? The lowest I could get them to go on PWM was 600. Coul get them to go to 300 on DC control tho.


----------



## GraveNoX

Actually I can put it down to 100rpm
TY-143 @ 100 rpm -> TY-147A - 0rpm - Basically I can count the number of blades, that's how slow it runs
Ty-143 @ 150 rpm -> TY-147A - 0rpm
TY-143 @ 200 rpm -> TY-147A - 250rpm
TY-143 @ 250 rpm -> TY-147A - 300rpm
TY-143 @ 300 rpm -> TY-147A - 350rpm
TY-143 @ 330 rpm -> TY-147A - 480rpm
380 530
410 540
500 570
580 600
670 640
780 680
850 700
920 730
1000 770


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everything but idle RPM on PWM is 550-600rpm, not 300rpm .. and your last sentence. I've used TY-143 and other TY-14x series fans as intakes on several build and found them to be as quiet and often quieter than other fans running at same rpm.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> Actually I can put it down to 100rpm
> TY-143 @ 100 rpm -> TY-147A - 0rpm - Basically I can count the number of blades, that's how slow it runs
> Ty-143 @ 150 rpm -> TY-147A - 0rpm
> TY-143 @ 200 rpm -> TY-147A - 250rpm
> TY-143 @ 250 rpm -> TY-147A - 300rpm
> TY-143 @ 300 rpm -> TY-147A - 350rpm
> TY-143 @ 330 rpm -> TY-147A - 480rpm
> 380 530
> 410 540
> 500 570
> 580 600
> 670 640
> 780 680
> 850 700
> 920 730
> 1000 770


What Loladinas said.

You are using variable voltage to get them to idle that slow, not PWM. This isn't the first time I've seen someone think they were using PWM control when they were really using variable voltage .. happens quite often. Just because fan header is 4-pin does not mean it's PWM. Some can be set to variable voltage or PWM, some are just one or the other. TY-147A PWM circuitry will not run fan below 300rpm. TY-143 minimum PWM is about 600rpm









I have never seen TY-14x fans run that slow on anything but variable voltage, and I've used them on many different variable voltage and PWM controllers including aquaero.

Easy way to prove it is to suppy pin-2 in fan plug with 12v power .. because PWM fans always have 12v constant voltage on pin-2.


----------



## GraveNoX

When using my Scythe Q-12 fan controller, at 5V it runs at 1200rpm minimum so 4v doesn't start the fan so I really don't think 200 rpm is done with voltage control.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GraveNoX*
> 
> When using my Scythe Q-12 fan controller, at 5V it runs at 1200rpm minimum so 4v doesn't start the fan so I really don't think 200 rpm is done with voltage control.


You have TY-147A and TY-143, so which fan is 1200rpm @ 5v? I'll assume the TY-143 because in data below it is 1165rpm @ 5v. Your test data does not correlate with other test data for these fans for either voltage control or PWM control.

Here is independent test results showing voltage control data for TY-143


Here is independent results showing voltage control data for TY-147A


Here is independent results showing PWM control curve for TY-147 & TY-147A. You can see lowest rpm is 300rpm from 0% to 40% PWM


Here is Thermalbench TY-143 curve from Thermalbench .. and TY-147A
 
http://thermalbench.com/2016/08/19/thermalright-ty-143-sq-140-mm-fan/
http://thermalbench.com/2015/10/31/thermalright-ty-147a-140mm-fan/3/

Here is my own PWM testing of TY-143, TY-147A, TY-147, TY-140 & TY-141 GA-X58A-UD5 and Smart. I Also tested with Aquaero fan controller and got same results.


----------



## Brightmist

What's the difference between 147A and 147B?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What's the difference between 147A and 147B?


TY-147B fan housing sides have sloted venting TY-147A sides are solid
 

I've used both and can tell no difference in performance or sound.


----------



## Brightmist

I ended up grabbing 4x147Bs from Nan's instead of 147As since those seemed to come with extra accessories like anti-vibration mounts and Y-splitters and price difference was like 2$.
Gonna use 2 on D15 pull/pull and 2 as top intakes.


----------



## Loladinas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I ended up grabbing 4x147Bs from Nan's instead of 147As since those seemed to come with extra accessories like anti-vibration mounts and Y-splitters and price difference was like 2$.
> Gonna use 2 on D15 pull/pull and 2 as top intakes.


They're not great in pull config.


----------



## Brightmist

My options are pull/pull or single push so I'm guessing pull/pull will be superior.
Case Intakes are gonna be 2xT147B on top and 3xGT120 2150 RPM in front in a 400C with front panel, PSU shroud and PCI-E covers removed(should really remove I/O shield too but cba).
Single push was already enough for my OC, I just wanted 2 fans on CPU cooler since back grill of 400C can only support 120mm fans.
Open to any other suggestions(didn't measure airflow temps inside case since I don't own the proper equipment).


----------



## JackCY

Where do you find reasonably priced Thermalright fans? They seem to be getting harder and harder to get. Same with their coolers.
I only found SilentiumPC Sigma Pro 140 PWM https://www.silentiumpc.com/en/sigma-pro-140-pwm/
and it's still quite expensive, double the price of Arctic F14.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Rant alert: People frequently ask where to buy things here but this is pretty much an international forum so it is difficult to answer them when we have no idea where they live because they left the location field blank in their profiles (ironically, it is against forum TOS to ask where someone lives). I understand people wanting some privacy online (heck, I'm downright paranoid when it comes to trying to maintain some semblance of privacy) but even just a highly generalized location, such as the country name only, will make it much easier for people to respond to people's questions without jeopardizing one's privacy.

Rant over. You are now being returned to your regularly scheduled thread.


----------



## JackCY

I don't care if it's a shop in US or Europe or Asia, I just want to see if any shops at all actually have them still at reasonable prices. I've searched all available shops to me and they don't have any Thermalright fans. So... doubt very much anyone else would find them especially with language barrier.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> I don't care if it's a shop in US or Europe or Asia, I just want to see if any shops at all actually have them still at reasonable prices. I've searched all available shops to me and they don't have any Thermalright fans. So... doubt very much anyone else would find them especially with language barrier.


In the SSA (Squabbling States of America), Nan's Gaming Gear would be a good place to start. People from elsewhere will need to chime in.


----------



## MicroCat

Thermalright is also available from Amazon in the SSA (LOL!)

However, the prices aren't as good as Nans, but some models have free shipping with Prime. And ime, Nan's shipping costs are where the profit margins are.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Thermalright is also available from Amazon in the SSA (LOL!)
> 
> However, the prices aren't as good as Nans, but some models have free shipping with Prime. And ime, Nan's shipping costs are where the profit margins are.


Most of those are being sold by Nan's. They cost more because Amazon takes a cut from the transaction. It's much better to buy directly from Nan's


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Most of those are being sold by Nan's. They cost more because Amazon takes a cut from the transaction. It's much better to buy directly from Nan's


Unless you're having the $15 fan shipped to Canada for $35, then Amazon looks like a bargain. Until it hits customs. LOL!


----------



## dwolvin

Thanks for the site- I had never stumbled upon Nan's!


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Rant alert: People frequently ask where to buy things here but this is pretty much an international forum so it is difficult to answer them when we have no idea where they live because they left the location field blank in their profiles (ironically, it is against forum TOS to ask where someone lives). I understand people wanting some privacy online (heck, I'm downright paranoid when it comes to trying to maintain some semblance of privacy) but even just a highly generalized location, such as the country name only, will make it much easier for people to respond to people's questions without jeopardizing one's privacy.
> 
> Rant over. You are now being returned to your regularly scheduled thread.


I found out that stopped being valid a decade ago, when markets opened up internationally. Now, if a website sells internationally, there's little chance it won't send stuff your way, and that comes from someone who lives in a country which was for a long time "banned" from receiving international shipping.

So generally it's safe to say "buy from Amazon" or Asian websites such as Aliexpress which send stuff internationally for sure.


----------



## Lady Fitzgerald

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *war4peace*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Lady Fitzgerald*
> 
> Rant alert: People frequently ask where to buy things here but this is pretty much an international forum so it is difficult to answer them when we have no idea where they live because they left the location field blank in their profiles (ironically, it is against forum TOS to ask where someone lives). I understand people wanting some privacy online (heck, I'm downright paranoid when it comes to trying to maintain some semblance of privacy) but even just a highly generalized location, such as the country name only, will make it much easier for people to respond to people's questions without jeopardizing one's privacy.
> 
> Rant over. You are now being returned to your regularly scheduled thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I found out that stopped being valid a decade ago, when markets opened up internationally. Now, if a website sells internationally, there's little chance it won't send stuff your way, and that comes from someone who lives in a country which was for a long time "banned" from receiving international shipping.
> 
> So generally it's safe to say "buy from Amazon" or Asian websites such as Aliexpress which send stuff internationally for sure.
Click to expand...

More vendors may be shipping to other countries but the cost of shipping will change dramatically with how far the item has to be shipped and to what country.


----------



## JackCY

There are these similar fans that are much easier to find and buy unlike Thermalright products, at least in EU:

https://www.silentiumpc.com/en/sigma-pro-140-pwm/

140mm (with 120 and 140 mount) and 120mm, regular and PWM





They still cost twice of what Arctic fans do though, Thermalright costs 3-4x, Noctua 4-6x. The fan prices are nuts for popular products in most shops, even the cheap ones are being ripped off by many. Too big buying/gaming boom for the fan market. Fans used to be dirt cheap, not anymore much.

Looks the same as NF-A14, Thermalright TY147/3/9/..., ... you know it's all just a copy of a copy of Noctua. But hey, these are all black and don't cost a kidney, something Noctua doesn't want to do.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> There are these similar fans that are much easier to find and buy unlike Thermalright products, at least in EU:
> 
> https://www.silentiumpc.com/en/sigma-pro-140-pwm/
> 
> 140mm (with 120 and 140 mount) and 120mm, regular and PWM
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They still cost twice of what Arctic fans do though, Thermalright costs 3-4x, Noctua 4-6x. The fan prices are nuts for popular products in most shops, even the cheap ones
> Looks the same as NF-A14, Thermalright TY147/3/9/..., ... you know it's all just a copy of a copy of Noctua. But hey, these are all black and don't cost a kidney, something Noctua doesn't want to do.


If I remember correctly the TY-140 came out before the Noctua copy did.















But yeah, all are basically the same fan. There is also the Cooljag Everflow 140mm PWM fan .. same but different colors as TY-143 SQ.


Silentiumpc Sigma Pro 140 PWM is a fragrant copy of TY-14x series / NF-A14/A15 fans, and as such I would not buy it. That said, it's quality depends on how good the motor, bearings and PWM circuitry are .. and if Thermalright is not available in your area it might be a good option. The corner adapters are something I tried to get Thermalright to do many years ago. They would have sold a lot more fans if the had them in the years before the made the square version.

The Cooljag Everflow 140mm PWM fan seems to be the all black version of new TY-143 SQ. Cooljag Everflow has been around as long as Thermalright. So so really copied who?








The impeller design was around long before any of these computer fans used it..

Puget Systems sells them.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/Additional-Cooling/Cooljag-Everflow-140mm-PWM-Fan-9355


----------



## JackCY

The 149 was released later? Has the same "lines" on the blades as Noctua fans.

Noctua, Cooljag, NZXT might have a more pointy tip of the blade, where as Thermalright and SilentiumPC have a slightly larger radius tip. Hard to tell from the small photo, but it seems that way.
Yes motor and so on is important. Maybe it's a shape from some old defunt company, so they steal it all









Will see how the cheap Arctic F14 is, if it ever gets shipped being blocked by other parts out of stock. Hopefully the motor isn't as loud as Fractal fans.


----------



## tashcz

Guys, I've got a failing Arctic F12 I need to replace. I have some that are good and a couple that got really bad bearings that produce inconsistent noise.

I'm willing to buy a Noctua fan. I'm replacing a front intake that pulls through a tight (think it's 2mm) air filter of the CM Storm Stryker.

I was thinking of getting the NF-F12 for the job but all reviews and sound tests proven it's a lot noisier than NF-P12. Performance wise, when you look at real world performance they don't differ much and I think the P12 is a better case intake fan.

I'd like your advice on what to get for the intake. It's just a mesh filter but it does take away some airflow. NF-P12 or NF-F12. If it's the P12, I can only get the non-PWM version which I don't mind.

The CPU cooler is the NH-D15 with stock fans, exhaust is the Arctics F14.

Thanks.


----------



## MicroCat

P12 all day and the day after. While the F12 may offer a little bit better performance at higher speed, your ears pay for it. You'll want to slow it down and then the P12 will out perform it. -










The F12 does not have the smooth noise character of the P12. The Be!Q Silent Wings 3 is another good option. I like the Akasa Apache 120mm as a case as well - when it's priced well.


----------



## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> P12 all day and the day after. While the F12 may offer a little bit better performance at higher speed, your ears pay for it. You'll want to slow it down and then the P12 will out perform it. -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F12 does not have the smooth noise character of the P12. The Be!Q Silent Wings 3 is another good option. I like the Akasa Apache 120mm as a case as well - when it's priced well.


Thank you kind sir!









Been looking at multiple (all I could find) tests on the web, and that's basicly what I found. Even at same RPMs the motor of the NF-F12 is noisier. The only thing P12 lacks is the last 150-200RPM the NF-F12 has, but since this is an intake fan I don't think it will matter much. Static pressure is a bit different but I think it's good enough for mesh filters.

I don't have access to many fans here in Serbia, best I could do (I don't wanna mention Corsair, Cooler Master etc) is Arctic and Noctua. So that narrows it down. The only thing is that an Arctic is 5EUR and the P12 is about 15EUR, while the NF-F12's go for at least 21EUR.

I'll go pick up one P12, if I like it I might change my other Arctic F12 for a P12. The Arctic F14 does a good job as an exhaust though.


----------



## MicroCat

The P12 is our threadstarter, @Cyclops's main squeeze. Air squeezeer that is.









He has 144,000 of them on his rad farm. It's a near religious cooling experience - or so I've read on the internet. They say you can see his rig from space.









I like F12s too - one with good bearings, that is. Three F12s for the cost of one P12 might tempt me. In Canada, it's 2 F12s for the cost of one P12. Not good enough odds.


----------



## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> The P12 is our threadstarter, @Cyclops's main squeeze. Air squeezeer that is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has 144,000 of them on his rad farm. It's a near religious cooling experience - or so I've read on the internet. They say you can see his rig from space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like F12s too - one with good bearings, that is. Three F12s for the cost of one P12 might tempt me. In Canada, it's 2 F12s for the cost of one P12. Not good enough odds.


LOL









Yeah, you need to buy at least 2 Arctics so one of them is good









I just mounted the P-12, bought one to test it out. It's 3x less the noise than the Arctic, but by hand I can't feel that airflow is better than Arctics. Seems it doesn't pull as good but it's dead silent. DEAD silent, can't hear it anyhow.

Now I'm wondering whether to try out the NF-F12's to see if there's a difference since I could listen to the P12 sing all day long. I hate noise more than anyone else but this is really, really silent.

Temps are maybe 1 to 2 C worse on an ambient delta but it's inaudiable.

I wonder how the S12 would do against a mesh... I guess it wouldn't move the air further from it.


----------



## MicroCat

S12 will be worse than the P12 through a filter - less static pressure - while making more noise - has some high frequency artifacts that the P12 doesn't. The F12 might be worth a try, but you won't get invited to @Cyclops next rad farm gala.









Is there enough space to mount a 140mm fan? The Noctua NF-A15 has 120mm mounting holes. As does the Thermalright TY-147a

On the other thermal pad...1 to 2 degrees is margin of error territory. You don't want to make a mistake in that area. Take the silence and run with the mild temp bump









Still... one can never have enough fans. So definitely buy more.


----------



## Cyclops

I can vouch for the P12's legendary performance. P12 > F12 for me. As for the view of my property from space.... no comment.


----------



## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> S12 will be worse than the P12 through a filter - less static pressure - while making more noise - has some high frequency artifacts that the P12 doesn't. The F12 might be worth a try, but you won't get invited to @Cyclops next rad farm gala.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there enough space to mount a 140mm fan? The Noctua NF-A15 has 120mm mounting holes. As does the Thermalright TY-147a
> 
> On the other thermal pad...1 to 2 degrees is margin of error territory. You don't want to make a mistake in that area. Take the silence and run with the mild temp bump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still... one can never have enough fans. So definitely buy more.


Hahah, I was joking about S12's, I know that thing wouldn't move a thing, I just wonder for what they're made for, there's practicly no case without mesh filters today









Nope, the mounting holes are on the drive cages, if you remove the drive cage you can't mount a fan without modding and adding L brackets for them. And the cages have holes for 120mm only.

I've pretty much got my OC straight up to ~24C over ambient so small bumps won't be a big deal. I take pure silence over performance any day. And yeah I'm still an AMD FX user lol.

Will get more Noctuas when time comes







Right now I'm sniping some DDR4 to get out of this power hog platform.


----------



## tashcz

Arctic F12 = overclock stable
Noctua NF-P12 = overclock bsod, software crashes, can't pass IBT with AVX

Spent 3 hours trying to make the OC work with the P12. It's weird how one fan makes a difference in system stability. Mesh is too much for P12, I don't know how but it can't pull enough air in.

Till I got the FX setup the silent ain't gonna cut it. It's a pitty, I guess only the NF-F12 would help in this case.

And it's just one intake fan, from a total of 7 in the system, excluding the GPU.


----------



## AshBorer

Heres a review of Noctua's new 200mm fan, the NF-A20. They compare it to Cooler Master's 200mm fan used on their H500P case. There are some charts in the article.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3161-noctua-nf-a20-200mm-fan-review-vs-cooler-masterfan-mf200r#!/ccomment





There are some fairly uninteresting thermal charts in the article that i didn't include, check em for yourself if you want.

Here was the conclusion
Quote:


> Thermal differences within the H500P "Meshify" aren't appreciable when both fans are at 100% RPM, but again, thermal testing is the most complex aspect of this: There are a lot of variables, and performance in one case may not equate performance in another case. We do know that, relative to each other, the Noctua fan pushes a higher LPM than Cooler Master at the higher RPMs, and manages to do so while retaining competitive noise levels. The Noctua NF-A20 could be run at 90% and achieve similar airflow and acoustic performance to the Cooler Master fan at 100%, which is potentially beneficial to some noise-sensitive users; that said, of course, the Cooler Master fans do have a visual advantage, and Noctua doesn't even try to compete on that front. The fans also come stock with the H500P, making upgrades difficult to justify for purchasers of that specific case - the performance uplift is not necessarily noticeable enough, or noticeable at all (depending on noise sensitivity), and it'd be a $60 purchase for two.
> 
> Cooler Master's MF200R fans did have a bit of axial wobble, we noticed. The large ring on the outer edge of the fan blades may contribute to this, or perhaps just weight distribution being uneven, but the fan wobbles slightly in an out-of-true manner. This causes LPM readings to have a wider range than the Noctua fan, as the LPM performance seems somewhat contingent on the axial wobble or apparent precession of the axis.
> 
> One note: The Noctua NF-A20 isn't a perfect fit in the H500P. You will either have to make some modifications or use only some of the screw holes.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Arctic F12 = overclock stable
> Noctua NF-P12 = overclock bsod, software crashes, can't pass IBT with AVX
> 
> Spent 3 hours trying to make the OC work with the P12. It's weird how one fan makes a difference in system stability. Mesh is too much for P12, I don't know how but it can't pull enough air in.
> 
> Till I got the FX setup the silent ain't gonna cut it. It's a pitty, I guess only the NF-F12 would help in this case.
> 
> And it's just one intake fan, from a total of 7 in the system, excluding the GPU.


That's a very close-to-the-edge OC.

Might consider performing a scientific airflow analysis of the case. In this case, tho, we only need cheap science. A cheap indoor/outdoor digital thermometer - mount the remote probe close to the cooler intake. Compare ambient temps to the temp at the cooler. If the difference is greater than 5 degrees, then some intake airflow improvements are available - either by modding, removing blockages like drive cages and swapping out the intake filters for less restrictive types.

Want to achieve a good clean front-to-back flow with minimal hot spots. Often top intakes/exhausts can cause turbulence and increase temps by robbing the cooler intake fan of cool air and/or recycling warm air. The cheap thermometer is a great tool for optimizing the flow.

I've modded a few cases so that at load the gradient between room temp and intake temp is 2-3 degrees or less.

Note: the NF-A15 uses 105mm mount spacing so can work with cases that support only 120mm fans.


----------



## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> That's a very close-to-the-edge OC.
> 
> Might consider performing a scientific airflow analysis of the case. In this case, tho, we only need cheap science. A cheap indoor/outdoor digital thermometer - mount the remote probe close to the cooler intake. Compare ambient temps to the temp at the cooler. If the difference is greater than 5 degrees, then some intake airflow improvements are available - either by modding, removing blockages like drive cages and swapping out the intake filters for less restrictive types.
> 
> Want to achieve a good clean front-to-back flow with minimal hot spots. Often top intakes/exhausts can cause turbulence and increase temps by robbing the cooler intake fan of cool air and/or recycling warm air. The cheap thermometer is a great tool for optimizing the flow.
> 
> I've modded a few cases so that at load the gradient between room temp and intake temp is 2-3 degrees or less.
> 
> Note: the NF-A15 uses 105mm mount spacing so can work with cases that support only 120mm fans.


Thing is, I do my OCing with a 2KW heater blowing from 3 meters away. Arctics passed tens of simultanius runs on IBT/AVX and tens of hours of Prime. Without any additional heating I couldn't get the PC stable. Only removing the mesh helped.

I got multiple thermometers as I do electronics as a hobbyist. I might say it's the VRMs that are overheating, but don't see how one fan makes such a difference. Even with a 6-7C higher ambient I pass IBT with Arctics. I think air doesn't get where it's needed.

I have no fans on the top of the case, just a mesh filter, haven't seen any benefit of adding fans there. I do have 2 intakes, 1 exhaust, 2 fans on the D15, 2x40mm Noctuas blowing air away from the VRM heatsink, a 70x15mm fan glued to the backplate. Really I don't see how the P12 underperforms Arctics. I felt it straight away with my hand but you never know wht impact it has till you try it.

Are you sure it's NF-A15?


----------



## epic1337

make a paper hood to redirect some air?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Thing is, I do my OCing with a 2KW heater blowing from 3 meters away. Arctics passed tens of simultanius runs on IBT/AVX and tens of hours of Prime. Without any additional heating I couldn't get the PC stable. Only removing the mesh helped.
> 
> I got multiple thermometers as I do electronics as a hobbyist. I might say it's the VRMs that are overheating, but don't see how one fan makes such a difference. Even with a 6-7C higher ambient I pass IBT with Arctics. I think air doesn't get where it's needed.
> 
> I have no fans on the top of the case, just a mesh filter, haven't seen any benefit of adding fans there. I do have 2 intakes, 1 exhaust, 2 fans on the D15, 2x40mm Noctuas blowing air away from the VRM heatsink, a 70x15mm fan glued to the backplate. Really I don't see how the P12 underperforms Arctics. I felt it straight away with my hand but you never know wht impact it has till you try it.
> 
> Are you sure it's NF-A15?


Yes, specs 105 x 105mm mounting : http://noctua.at/en/nf-a15-pwm/specification - I've used them before to replace 120mm intakes in other cases.

As well a hood, could use an old, noisy AC F12 as a shroud donor for the P12. Cut out the old fan bit and voila! It becomes a 25mm thick shroud. Experiment with mounting the shroud in front of the P12 or after to direct airflow.


----------



## doyll

I've found adding more fans inside of case when attempting to cool specific spots like motherboard VRMs is problematic. While it might help the VRM it creates turbulence elsewhere that disrupts established flow patterns ending in higher temps elsewhere.

I often use file folders as material to make dividers, ducting and airflow channeling vanes in systems. Sometimes stiffer material like thin cardboard for directional vanes and dividers.


----------



## epic1337

out of experience adding a C-shaped duct on the GPU's intake helps reduce temps tremendously.
simply fold a piece of paper into a C-shape channel exactly the width of the GPU's cooler, tape it at the edge and it works.
just make sure not to cover the top and bottom gaps as those are exhausts.


----------



## Cyclops

Finally replaced the SP-120s in my rig with NF-P12s. Expensive, but the system is quieter and cooler by a large margin.


----------



## tashcz

Case fans?


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> Finally replaced the SP-120s in my rig with NF-P12s. Expensive, but the system is quieter and cooler by a large margin.


So...there's more than 144,000 P12s in your rig now?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Case fans?


Yes, and radiator fans.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> So...there's more than 144,000 P12s in your rig now?


All I can say is that I don't have enough P12s. Nobody does, not even Noctua.


----------



## epic1337

i just got myself a single Cryorig Q120 Performance and at 100% PWM it has high airflow but its loud, not loud enough to be noisy but loud enough to be clearly audible outside the case.
i've no instruments for measurement but it alone could fully saturate the exhaust fans in my case, enough to the point that air leaks through passive vents.




i got this fan along with Cryorig H7, the Q120 Performance is used to replace the front-intake fan on my new shiny Silverstone PS07-White.
i have to say i'm satisfied with it, good enough airflow at ~80% PWM ( ~1700RM ) without sounding like a muffled vacuum cleaner.
if i had to name a complaint though, it would be that at 100% PWM its only some 2000RPM, which is far from the supposed 2200RPM rating.

by the way, i modded the PS07-White a bit, i've totally removed the front-panel and added a vandal switch on the back, now my "rear" is the "front".
later i'll have a white acrylic to replace the gaudy tapes i've temporarily set to seal gaps on the former-front.
i'm not finished with building this yet, i've yet to install my GPU, sonar DX soundcard and other HDD.


----------



## Ricwin

Anyone else had bad experiences with Be Quiet Silent Wing 3 fans?
I replaced two Noctua NF-F12's with Be Quiet SW3's but I was so unimpressed that they were taken out after a day and will be returned to Amazon this week.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricwin*
> 
> Anyone else had bad experiences with Be Quiet Silent Wing 3 fans?
> I replaced two Noctua NF-F12's with Be Quiet SW3's but I was so unimpressed that they were taken out after a day and will be returned to Amazon this week.


I've never used a be quiet! product I was not pleased with.
What was did you not like about them?


----------



## Ricwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I've never used a be quiet! product I was not pleased with.
> What was did you not like about them?


They've been hyped up so much on here and other palces like LTT and Reddit; but I found them to be noisy, airflow was frankly crap and they only ran at a set speed.
BL064 model, 3 pin connector, 1450rpm. I tested them on an NZXT Grid v2, connected directly to my Asus Sabertooth, and connected to mobo in a second PC: in all instances, both the fans stayed around 1320rpm.


----------



## nanotm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricwin*
> 
> They've been hyped up so much on here and other palces like LTT and Reddit; but I found them to be noisy, airflow was frankly crap and they only ran at a set speed.
> BL064 model, 3 pin connector, 1450rpm. I tested them on an NZXT Grid v2, connected directly to my Asus Sabertooth, and connected to mobo in a second PC: in all instances, both the fans stayed around 1320rpm.


not ot be difficult or anything but are you sure they were genuine articles?


----------



## Ricwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nanotm*
> 
> not ot be difficult or anything but are you sure they were genuine articles?


Sold by Be Quiet themselves on Amazon, so I'd expect them to be genuine








https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01JMEQPBW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Cyclops

When in doubt, buy NF-P12s. They will blow you away.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricwin*
> 
> They've been hyped up so much on here and other palces like LTT and Reddit; but I found them to be noisy, airflow was frankly crap and they only ran at a set speed.
> BL064 model, 3 pin connector, 1450rpm. I tested them on an NZXT Grid v2, connected directly to my Asus Sabertooth, and connected to mobo in a second PC: in all instances, both the fans stayed around 1320rpm.


"Only ran at a set speed" is not a fan problem, but a control problem. No idea what your control problem is, but definitely not the fans' fault . With variable voltage if you lower the voltage they change speed same as any other fan or motor on variable voltage control, so my guess is your variable voltage source was not varying the voltage like it should.

Important thing is you are happy with NF-F12's


----------



## Ricwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> "Only ran at a set speed" is not a fan problem, but a control problem. No idea what your control problem is, but definitely not the fans' fault . With variable voltage if you lower the voltage they change speed same as any other fan or motor on variable voltage control, so my guess is your variable voltage source was not varying the voltage like it should.
> 
> Important thing is you are happy with NF-F12's


Thats why I plugged them into three different things.
Funnily enough, the two Shadow Wings I bought at the same time work flawlessly on the same hardware. They vary their speed correctly.


----------



## Ricwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclops*
> 
> When in doubt, buy NF-P12s. They will blow you away.


Apart from being around £2.50 cheaper, why P12 rather than F12?


----------



## Cyclops

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricwin*
> 
> Apart from being around £2.50 cheaper, why P12 rather than F12?


P12 is a much more efficient design. It's quieter and move slightly more air. In all my tests the P12 beats the F12.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricwin*
> 
> Thats why I plugged them into three different things.
> Funnily enough, the two Shadow Wings I bought at the same time work flawlessly on the same hardware. They vary their speed correctly.


Did you contact be quiet! customer support? I've found them to be very helpful, especially when customer supplies all the relevant details about problem.


----------



## Gen Patton

Hello, got a question should your front fans be intake if so the x side should it be showing or facing on the inside of the case? whats happening is i put my side pannel on my gpu shuts off. if i leave it open i have to use a fan while gaming . I have a Evga founders 1080.


----------



## dwolvin

Generally the closed side of the hub is upstream- the X or whatever shape brace is the back (output) side of the fan.


----------



## war4peace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gen Patton*
> 
> Hello, got a question should your front fans be intake if so the x side should it be showing or facing on the inside of the case? whats happening is i put my side pannel on my gpu shuts off. if i leave it open i have to use a fan while gaming . I have a Evga founders 1080.


If the fans respect standards, they should have two small arrows on the side, one parallel to the side showing the rotation direction of the fan, and another perpendicular to the side showing the air direction.


----------



## Ricwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Did you contact be quiet! customer support? I've found them to be very helpful, especially when customer supplies all the relevant details about problem.


I have not contacted them, already packaged the fans and arranged return to Amazon.


----------



## edsai

Hi there,

The Search this Thread below the page navigation looks like not working.
Am I missing something?


----------



## rvectors

Nice thread, and I've just bought some Noctua NF-A14Industrial 3000 fans, and a NF-A20.


----------



## doyll

edsai said:


> Hi there,
> 
> The Search this Thread below the page navigation looks like not working.
> Am I missing something?


Search feature on sense forum change doesn't work.


----------



## edsai

doyll said:


> Search feature on sense forum change doesn't work.


Thanks for your input.

The search feature worked before the forum migration, it was quite usefull.


----------



## doyll

edsai said:


> Hi there,
> 
> The Search this Thread below the page navigation looks like not working.
> Am I missing something?





edsai said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> The search feature worked before the forum migration, it was quite usefull.


Yeah, I find it very frustrating now. Know there is info I've seen and used before but can't find it anymore. :thumbsdow

Hopefully they will find a way to get it to work like it did before or maybe even better. :thumb:


----------



## nova_prime

Anyone test the EK-Vardar EVO models yet?


----------



## doyll

nova_prime said:


> Anyone test the EK-Vardar EVO models yet?


I think Thermalbench did.
http://thermalbench.com/2015/08/12/ek-vardar-f3-140er-140mm-fan/


----------



## RatusNatus

We need an update in this info.

There is a legion of new users(miners) hungry for the information and the way u show is not the way they need the info.
Cyclops way is the best.

Focus in price, noise, performance and power consumption. All reviews focus only in performance and noise. 
The game has changed...


----------



## war4peace

RatusNatus said:


> We need an update in this info.
> 
> There is a legion of new users(miners) hungry for the information and the way u show is not the way they need the info.
> Cyclops way is the best.
> 
> Focus in price, noise, performance and power consumption. All reviews focus only in performance and noise.
> The game has changed...


Not really, it hasn't.
Miners don't usually need fan reviews, they go for whatever's the cheapest method to blow some air over the GPU area. Out of maybe 50 home miners I know, none ever needed info on fans. They just buy the cheapest ones there are.


----------



## Cyclops

:tiredsmil

I think I'm done here.


----------



## nova_prime

doyll said:


> I think Thermalbench did.
> http://thermalbench.com/2015/08/12/ek-vardar-f3-140er-140mm-fan/


Thanks however this is the older model.

I did find a review on the newer ones. https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EKWB/Vardar_EVO_120ER/


----------



## doyll

nova_prime said:


> Thanks however this is the older model.
> 
> I did find a review on the newer ones. https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EKWB/Vardar_EVO_120ER/


Good one! :thumb:

FYI; testing was done by VSG who is owner of Thermalbench who did the other testing. 
Wouldn't be surprised if he's using same test system for this testing.


----------



## nova_prime

Been using the EK-Vardar EVO 120er the past few days. I notice its sound profile is less audible than the Noctua NF-F12 Chromax PWM at similar RPM and cools about the same. I'm running these around 1200rpm and lower with fan curve AISuite. Using 6 fans on push/pull on Fractal Celsius S36 on Thermaltake P3. Quality seems to be hit or miss with Ek-Vardar EVO fans but I do like them quite a bit. 

EK Vardar Evo 120 = https://www.amazon.com/Combo-EK-Vardar-120ER-Black-2200rpm/dp/B074P4Z8XH


----------



## Metalhead79

Feeling froggy today and contemplating changing my fans....I use two Phanteks PH-F140MPs as intake and three PH-F140HP II fans on my cooler (Phanteks PH-TC14PE). I know the third fan doesn't do much but it looks cool. 

Anyway, is there any performance to be gained by switching to Thermalright TY-147A fans? 

This is inside a Define Meshify C with a PowerColor Red Devil Vega 56 and Ryzen 7 1700 OC'd to 3.9ghz. All PCI-E brackets are removed, so I've got nice front to back air flow (no exhaust fans are used). I don't have any heat issues, but if I can squeeze a couple degrees lower temps with the Thermalright fans.....


----------



## doyll

Metalhead79 said:


> Feeling froggy today and contemplating changing my fans....I use two Phanteks PH-F140MPs as intake and three PH-F140HP II fans on my cooler (Phanteks PH-TC14PE). I know the third fan doesn't do much but it looks cool.
> 
> Anyway, is there any performance to be gained by switching to Thermalright TY-147A fans?
> 
> This is inside a Define Meshify C with a PowerColor Red Devil Vega 56 and Ryzen 7 1700 OC'd to 3.9ghz. All PCI-E brackets are removed, so I've got nice front to back air flow (no exhaust fans are used). I don't have any heat issues, but if I can squeeze a couple degrees lower temps with the Thermalright fans.....


No, TY-147A is 1300rpm and PH-F140MP is 1600rpm, and more rpm means more performance. I'm using both in my home systems and honestly have no complaints about either one. I also have half a dozen or so new TY-147A SQ from a bulk order that I haven't used .. yeat. Reason is new Phanteks cases come with what is basically a variable voltage 1200rpm PH-f140MP and they are so good I can't be bother changing them for TY-147A SQ fans.


----------



## Rainmaker91

doyll said:


> No, TY-147A is 1300rpm and PH-F140MP is 1600rpm, and more rpm means more performance. I'm using both in my home systems and honestly have no complaints about either one. I also have half a dozen or so new TY-147A SQ from a bulk order that I haven't used .. yeat. Reason is new Phanteks cases come with what is basically a variable voltage 1200rpm PH-f140MP and they are so good I can't be bother changing them for TY-147A SQ fans.


The PH-F140MP/PH-F140MPII (Essentially the same fan) are seriously impressive for 140mm fans, so much so that I swaped out the Thermalright fans that came with my cooler with them, though to be fair that was the pair of 800rpm fans that come with the MachoX2 so the Phanteks fans has a significant RPM advantage. Still they my PH-F140MPII fans are really making me question my choice of 120mm radiators.


----------



## Metalhead79

Yeah.... I thought that would be the answer. Always good to make sure.


----------



## doyll

Rainmaker91 said:


> The PH-F140MP/PH-F140MPII (Essentially the same fan) are seriously impressive for 140mm fans, so much so that I swaped out the Thermalright fans that came with my cooler with them, though to be fair that was the pair of 800rpm fans that come with the MachoX2 so the Phanteks fans has a significant RPM advantage. Still they my PH-F140MPII fans are really making me question my choice of 120mm radiators.


I'm assuming you mean PH-F140HP_II. 

Indeed, those TY-142 800rpm are not up to standard in my book. I want about 300-1300rpm. That way I can run them up to about 950-1000rpm at full load and keep CPU 10c cooler than at 800rpm .. and have a few hundred rpm in reserve for really hot weather when encoding with dirty filters. 

PH-F120MP are quite good too, but if I was doing another custom loop I would most likely use 280mm rads. A 280mm has very similar cooling to a 360mm


----------



## Rainmaker91

doyll said:


> I'm assuming you mean PH-F140HP_II.
> 
> Indeed, those TY-142 800rpm are not up to standard in my book. I want about 300-1300rpm. That way I can run them up to about 950-1000rpm at full load and keep CPU 10c cooler than at 800rpm .. and have a few hundred rpm in reserve for really hot weather when encoding with dirty filters.
> 
> PH-F120MP are quite good too, but if I was doing another custom loop I would most likely use 280mm rads. A 280mm has very similar cooling to a 360mm


Exactly, my issue is that I have already rebuilt my Enthoo Primo to properly hold my 2x480mm rads (I had to rework the top to get them in the orientation I wanted) so 420mm rads are no longer a possibility without rebuilding it all again. Not to mention I already have a pair of 480mm rads and 16 ML120 fans to go with them... All that is missing is for me to actually manage to set aside time to work on the build, which is easier said than done. Still though, the MachoX2 with the PH-F140HP_II (yeah, quick error on my part in last post) is serving me well enough as a stop gap solution for when I'm working on my main case.


----------



## ppn7

Hi,

so arctic F12 pwm is really good for the price ? 
I bought 5 packs for 15$ at discount price. I put 3 of them in push on a push/pull 360mm slim magicool
And 2 in pull on a push/pull 240mm slim magicool.

I hope they will do their job!


----------



## doyll

ppn7 said:


> Hi,
> 
> so arctic F12 pwm is really good for the price ?
> I bought 5 packs for 15$ at discount price. I put 3 of them in push on a push/pull 360mm slim magicool
> And 2 in pull on a push/pull 240mm slim magicool.
> 
> I hope they will do their job!


I've found them to be decent fans. While not quite quite as good as some fans that cost more than two or three times as much, they are are definitely better than most stock case fans.


----------



## Ceadderman

Wish I could find EVO fans in 3-pack boxing. Makes no sense to sell 1 and 2 pack quantities for a 360. Yeah I could spend ore for that purchase but I would rather get a 3 pack and be done with it than have multiple skus to navigate should something go wrong with an order. Hades, even Corsair sells in 3 packs.

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## Skylinestar

doyll said:


> I've found them to be decent fans. While not quite quite as good as some fans that cost more than two or three times as much, they are are definitely better than most stock case fans.


My Arctic F12 fan bearings got noisy after 2 yrs of usage. 2 fans actually. Are they good or I'm just having bad batch?


----------



## doyll

Skylinestar said:


> My Arctic F12 fan bearings got noisy after 2 yrs of usage. 2 fans actually. Are they good or I'm just having bad batch?


While I suspect the bearings in those two are below par, 2 years on a low cost fan is not at all bad. If we compare cost ot years of service Arctic F12 cost about $3.00 (5-pack for $15.00) so about $1.50 a year .. top tier would cost $25-30 for 5-6 years is $5.00-6.00 a year .. that's easily 3-4 times as much per year.


----------



## deepor

Skylinestar said:


> My Arctic F12 fan bearings got noisy after 2 yrs of usage. 2 fans actually. Are they good or I'm just having bad batch?


Did you run them horizontally, for example at the top of the case as exhaust or mounted onto your graphics card? I remember something about certain fans not liking being run horizontally. It makes certain types of bearings go bad a lot faster than normal.

Arctic has a weird alternative version of their fans where the motor is built in backwards:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ARCTIC-AC-AF12PRPWM-F12-PRO-Anti-Vibration/

Maybe that horizontal use example at the top of the case is the reason they exist?


----------



## turboman

I am thinking of using PC fans for a different application. With the heat wave now where I live in Europe, I have been using 40cm standing fans, of the normal household design. Most are quite noisy, not being designed for noise but rather for cost.

So I wonder about using 4 x 20cm silent PC fans, mounted on a standing frame. How would that compare to a normal household 40cm standing fan, for similar air flow?
Alternative, but not so realistic to implement, if a PC fan is scaled up to 40cm, would the noise be less than a household fan?

It is somewhat off topic, but I thought I ask in this thread where the experts are frolicking around.

Off to the beer


----------



## doyll

turboman said:


> I am thinking of using PC fans for a different application. With the heat wave now where I live in Europe, I have been using 40cm standing fans, of the normal household design. Most are quite noisy, not being designed for noise but rather for cost.
> 
> So I wonder about using 4 x 20cm silent PC fans, mounted on a standing frame. How would that compare to a normal household 40cm standing fan, for similar air flow?
> Alternative, but not so realistic to implement, if a PC fan is scaled up to 40cm, would the noise be less than a household fan?
> 
> It is somewhat off topic, but I thought I ask in this thread where the experts are frolicking around.
> 
> Off to the beer


I tried using 200mm fans to move air in a room and found them extremely ineffective. Had much better results using 140mm fans. Honestly, the room fans you are using do a much better job.


----------



## nanotm

turboman said:


> I am thinking of using PC fans for a different application. With the heat wave now where I live in Europe, I have been using 40cm standing fans, of the normal household design. Most are quite noisy, not being designed for noise but rather for cost.
> 
> So I wonder about using 4 x 20cm silent PC fans, mounted on a standing frame. How would that compare to a normal household 40cm standing fan, for similar air flow?
> Alternative, but not so realistic to implement, if a PC fan is scaled up to 40cm, would the noise be less than a household fan?
> 
> It is somewhat off topic, but I thought I ask in this thread where the experts are frolicking around.
> 
> Off to the beer


you will find that you need to mount them into cardboard to have any airflow effect, i did it with a bunch of "standard" fans becasue i never use the ones supplied with cases or coolers (which means i had dozens of them laying around) hooked them up to a 20w solar panel with a couple of chocolate blocks and some 18gauge wire to encourage airflow in the shed, works but only with some form of ducting which also tends to mean its not quite silent, although its a lot quieter than the mains wall fan in the house....


its a great way to add extra localised cooling but if your after volume shifting then not so much, also if the normal house fans annoy you with noise I personally just turn on some music and listen to that instead... much better than having a buzzing in your ears for hours on end


----------



## Rainmaker91

turboman said:


> I am thinking of using PC fans for a different application. With the heat wave now where I live in Europe, I have been using 40cm standing fans, of the normal household design. Most are quite noisy, not being designed for noise but rather for cost.
> 
> So I wonder about using 4 x 20cm silent PC fans, mounted on a standing frame. How would that compare to a normal household 40cm standing fan, for similar air flow?
> Alternative, but not so realistic to implement, if a PC fan is scaled up to 40cm, would the noise be less than a household fan?
> 
> It is somewhat off topic, but I thought I ask in this thread where the experts are frolicking around.
> 
> Off to the beer


They won't really be all that effective for a few very celar reasons. 1 the motor on the fans are super tiny compared to what you find on fans used for cooling a room. The fans are also really thin compared to what a room fan is as they can easily be 10cm thick where a regular cxase fan is 2.5cm. Even if you combine a bunch of them you will find that they are really not up to par for directing air over long distances.

Just get some good quality room fans or workshop fans for that matter (cheaper alternative) as tehy will do a better job than any case fan I have seen. Now if you are experinceing that your stero is overheating or something along those lines case fans would do a brilliant job of holding those cool as that is far closer to what they are designed for.

Only way I can see case fans effectively cooling a human would be if you build a frame around your head and mount them to that and power them by a 12v battery pack.

Edit: if you already have room fans however, then you may use any spare case fans you may have laying around to force air from outside in to the room and simply help with air flow in the room.


----------



## Skylinestar

Is there any fan in the market that comes bundle with long mounting screw (for 25mm thick fan)?


----------



## doyll

Skylinestar said:


> Is there any fan in the market that comes bundle with long mounting screw (for 25mm thick fan)?


Maybe I'm missing something, but why buy a fan to get long screws instead of getting long mounting screws separate from fan?


----------



## sirmister

Hi guys.

I am in a similar sitution that @turboman. 

Ordered a couple cheap 80mm 12V DC fans to cool a small localized place. And I have a 12V transformer laying around.

The 12V transformer will do for 2 x 12V fans ? Or will I need a 24V transformer?


----------



## nanotm

sirmister said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I am in a similar sitution that @turboman.
> 
> Ordered a couple cheap 80mm 12V DC fans to cool a small localized place. And I have a 12V transformer laying around.
> 
> The 12V transformer will do for 2 x 12V fans ? Or will I need a 24V transformer?



connect them in parallel and you can have as many fans as the current draw on the transformer allows, you only get problems when your total current draw is higher than the transformer is able to cope with.

since most non pwm fans have their speed determined by the voltage applied if you put them in series configuration your likely to run them at half speed, and again so long as your under the current draw for the transformer that should be fine


thing is pc cooling fans are generally not much good at space cooling, and unless you have some kind of wave guide around them there not really going to have much effect on anything larger than a pc case


----------



## sirmister

So if I wire them in pararel will each fan draw the full 12V? 

Do I need to matter the Amps? 
The transformer is 12V 2A. So,as long the total Amps are below the rated transformer amperage, i can run as many fans as I want at full speed?

I am not sure how many Amps the fans have. But if each has 0.18A, I can theoretically run 14 fans. Correct?

The fans will be "instaled" in a cooled plastic box, and the air flow of both fans will exit through a directed pvc pipe.

On the other hand, the fastest the fan speed is and the fastest the air exit the pipe, the less time air will have to be in contact with the cooling surface, thus making the fans just moving air from point A to point B, and not actually having a "cooling" efect. (lowing temperature)


----------



## nanotm

sirmister said:


> So if I wire them in pararel will each fan draw the full 12V?
> 
> Do I need to matter the Amps?
> The transformer is 12V 2A. So,as long the total Amps are below the rated transformer amperage, i can run as many fans as I want at full speed?
> 
> I am not sure how many Amps the fans have. But if each has 0.18A, I can theoretically run 14 fans. Correct?
> 
> The fans will be "instaled" in a cooled plastic box, and the air flow of both fans will exit through a directed pvc pipe.
> 
> On the other hand, the fastest the fan speed is and the fastest the air exit the pipe, the less time air will have to be in contact with the cooling surface, thus making the fans just moving air from point A to point B, and not actually having a "cooling" efect. (lowing temperature)


its not just the "running " current to worry about but also the "peek draw" or initialisation current or starting current, the power required ot take the fan from motionless ot working, its not unheard of for fans that run at a nominal current of 0.1 amps to require 10 times as much power to get things moving, so yes if the fans were already spinning its possible your 2 amp transformer would run up to 14 of them in parrallel at full speed, however in practice trying to start more than 4 of them would likely overtax the transformer and cause it to fail very quickly, 

as to airflow, there are different things to think of, is the sped up air smashing into something, is it just creating a motive flow where none exists, is the air being directed according to its relative delta-t (hot air enters at the bottom of the room whilst cool air enters at the top) in order to encourage air flow throughout the space , and thats before you get into things like flow resistence, size of openings length of tube etc etc 


put simply it might do what you say or it might do the opposite, certainly when I want to get cooled down then I turn the speed up on the fan so it moves the same volume of air at a higher speed


----------



## Ceadderman

24w on one channel? What is the v/a rating on your fans? Do the math for that and then see how many Watts you can fit to that channel. Cause you can easily overload a circuit if you're not careful. I doubt you could run half that amount of fans(14) on that circuit. 

I had a sunbeam fan controller that had 30w per channel and the most I would consider was 3 per which worked for me since I would only use it for pumps and fans. 

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## doyll

sirmister said:


> So if I wire them in pararel will each fan draw the full 12V?
> 
> Do I need to matter the Amps?
> The transformer is 12V 2A. So,as long the total Amps are below the rated transformer amperage, i can run as many fans as I want at full speed?
> 
> I am not sure how many Amps the fans have. But if each has 0.18A, I can theoretically run 14 fans. Correct?
> 
> The fans will be "instaled" in a cooled plastic box, and the air flow of both fans will exit through a directed pvc pipe.
> 
> On the other hand, the fastest the fan speed is and the fastest the air exit the pipe, the less time air will have to be in contact with the cooling surface, thus making the fans just moving air from point A to point B, and not actually having a "cooling" efect. (lowing temperature)


What nanotm said. :thumb:
Maximum power load is something most fans specs do not give. They give running load which while I have not found any that draw 10 times the load at startup as running load do use 3-5 times as much as starting up as running. But wihtout knowing exactly what fans you are running and their specifications it's impossible to say how many your 2amp/24w power supply can run. I will only say a 2 amp supply will run 24 watts and a fan rated 0.18a / 2,16w will likely draw 0.72a / 8.64w startup .. so 3 could easily draw 2.16a / 25.92w at startup .. .16a / 1.92w more than your power supply is rated.

Sounds like you are making a do-it-yourself air cooler? The static pressure rating of your fans will determine how much airflow you have more so than their cfm rating .. and keep in mind faster moving air generally feels cooler on our body than slower moving air.


----------



## sirmister

Thanks a lot for your insights guys. Much appreciated.

The fans were bought cheap from the Bay. They didn't have the amps or cfm rating in the product description. I hope it says at least the amps in the label when I receive them.

The 14 fans mentioned before, was just an example, to make myself know if the math I was doing was right. But yes, there are other factors to consider, so thank you for the explanations; 14 are indeed impossible in practise.

I will for sure install 2 fans. 4 at most if the airflow is not enough. But I'll wait for them to arrive to see their specs and performance on 2 alone.

What are the consequences of having fans/other devices drawning more power than the power supply can handle? It can burn the power supply or the devices itself?

Yes, it's an air cooler. I will use some ice and a plastic freezer, and make the air run through the ice, cooling it down and exiting at the top of the box, hoppefully a few degrees lower than the room temperature. The only thing I am missing is the pvc pipe. Maybe a flexible siphon tube. 

Since I will be adding the ice, the fans will be moving cooler air. Therefore, I still believe that a lower air flow, will allow the air to have more time to be in contact with the ice and therefore, exiting the tube cooler, than if the same path was made faster but with a higher air volume.


----------



## nanotm

sirmister said:


> Thanks a lot for your insights guys. Much appreciated.
> 
> The fans were bought cheap from the Bay. They didn't have the amps or cfm rating in the product description. I hope it says at least the amps in the label when I receive them.
> 
> The 14 fans mentioned before, was just an example, to make myself know if the math I was doing was right. But yes, there are other factors to consider, so thank you for the explanations; 14 are indeed impossible in practise.
> 
> I will for sure install 2 fans. 4 at most if the airflow is not enough. But I'll wait for them to arrive to see their specs and performance on 2 alone.
> 
> What are the consequences of having fans/other devices drawning more power than the power supply can handle? It can burn the power supply or the devices itself?
> 
> Yes, it's an air cooler. I will use some ice and a plastic freezer, and make the air run through the ice, cooling it down and exiting at the top of the box, hoppefully a few degrees lower than the room temperature. The only thing I am missing is the pvc pipe. Maybe a flexible siphon tube.
> 
> Since I will be adding the ice, the fans will be moving cooler air. Therefore, I still believe that a lower air flow, will allow the air to have more time to be in contact with the ice and therefore, exiting the tube cooler, than if the same path was made faster but with a higher air volume.


it can be as mild as popping the internal fuse through starting a fire or blowing up the smoothing circuit, ive had all 3 in the past by overloading things, as to what will happen it mostly depends on how over or under engineered the transformer is, personally i wouldnt overload it at all, whilst it might be fine for a while it can suddenly go on you (which is part of the reason for me doing my experiment wiht a straight dc solar panel) as to using piping for an air guide, it depends on exactly how it will be setup, are you thinking to get some wide bore pipe and blast it down at the top of the open coolbox (filled with ice) in order to both cooldown the air in the room at large and generate convection flow or are you thinking ot try pushing air into the bottom of the box and let it drift out the top (again to make convectin flow) or fan on both sides ? 

either way its going to be loud, and you would find it much simpler to just grab a normal desk fan and stick a bowl of ice in front of it, not recomended around electrical equipment though since humidity and electronics dont work well together


----------



## Ceadderman

nanotm didn't say it. I did. Just to keep things clear. 

When you get your new fans the specs should be displayed on the hub sticker on the back of the fans. First voltage 12(since they should be 12v fans we can reasonably assume this number would be correct) and the Amps. My San Ace 120s are 0.13A... Multiply the two numbers and that should give you the correct W or Watts per fan. 

At the time I ran the Sunbeam 3 Channel I could run up to 5 Yate Loon 20mm 120s on one channel. Since it was a 3 channel controller I ran 3 on one and 1 pump per remaining channel. I stuffed the controller deep into my 5.25 bay so it could be hidden but it did a great job keeping everything going and it has little aluminum heatsinks on each control connector. I have since sold it since I go driveless. No DVD no controller no media devices. I have a 12v fan controller to provide power to six fans that goes on the MB tray. One fan per channel. Uses SATA power source, makes things cleaner. :thumb:

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## doyll

The last bit of conversation is about what natotm said, which was: 
_"its not just the "running " current to worry about but also the "peek draw" or initialisation current or starting current, the power required ot take the fan from motionless ot working"_​


----------



## Ceadderman

Ahhh okay I was wondering how nanotm entered name drop status. I am on mobile so I cannot really read post names too well in the new OCN system. My bad tho. :blushsmil 

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## doyll

Ceadderman said:


> Ahhh okay I was wondering how nanotm entered name drop status. I am on mobile so I cannot really read post names too well in the new OCN system. My bad tho. :blushsmil
> 
> ~Ceadder :drink:


Yeah, new forum isn't as nice as old one. Not as easy to keep things clear. Just thought you would want to know.


----------



## war4peace

Since it's 2018 and summer, I was wondering about something 
My MoRa 420 has 4x 230mm BitFenix Spectre Pro all-white fans (sorry for the URL, it's where I bought them from). Since they are voltage-only, their minimum speed sits around 380 RPM which is OK but maybe there are better alternatives out there.
I'd prefer large (180mm minimum, 200mm+ preferred) fans, preferably white (the MoRa is white, so is the fan grill), preferably PWM, with smaller minimum RPM. I have installed Noctua A20 PWM on a friend's build (also on MoRa 420) and they go as low as 350 RPM... but they're ugly.

Anything worth looking at that got launched on the market during the last 12 months?


----------



## Ceadderman

war4peace said:


> Since it's 2018 and summer, I was wondering about something
> My MoRa 420 has 4x 230mm BitFenix Spectre Pro all-white fans (sorry for the URL, it's where I bought them from). Since they are voltage-only, their minimum speed sits around 380 RPM which is OK but maybe there are better alternatives out there.
> I'd prefer large (180mm minimum, 200mm+ preferred) fans, preferably white (the MoRa is white, so is the fan grill), preferably PWM, with smaller minimum RPM. I have installed Noctua A20 PWM on a friend's build (also on MoRa 420) and they go as low as 350 RPM... but they're ugly.
> 
> Anything worth looking at that got launched on the market during the last 12 months?


Try the Silverstone Penetrator AP181. Games Nexus reviewed them and revisited them this year some time back. 200mm.

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## war4peace

The AP181 suffer from a plethora of issues.
1. They are not controllable. Well, they are but in steps through a hardware regulator. Not what I want. I can't plug them into an Aquaero and control them from there.
2. Their minimum RPM is 600 - ridiculously high.
3. They have a grille - which I don't need.

The AP182 is a slight improvement but still the minimum RPM is 500 and their maximum power consumption is 15.6W, meaning it's a risk even with only two per voltage header.


----------



## doyll

war4peace said:


> The AP181 suffer from a plethora of issues.
> 1. They are not controllable. Well, they are but in steps through a hardware regulator. Not what I want. I can't plug them into an Aquaero and control them from there.
> 2. Their minimum RPM is 600 - ridiculously high.
> 3. They have a grille - which I don't need.
> 
> The AP182 is a slight improvement but still the minimum RPM is 500 and their maximum power consumption is 15.6W, meaning it's a risk even with only two per voltage header.


Seems when someone tries to help you are ungrateful. 

They can be controlled with variable voltage, but need 10.8w to start then voltage can be lowered for lower speed. 

What you call a 'grill' is an airflow straightener to help them have a column of airflow instead of a cone of airflow.

1 fan rated 15.6w is more than most standard fan headers which are rated for 1 amp / 12 w cann safely control. No idea how you figure you could run 2 on one fan header.


----------



## Abula

war4peace said:


> The AP182 is a slight improvement but still the minimum RPM is 500 and their maximum power consumption is 15.6W, meaning it's a risk even with only two per voltage header.


 The AP182 can be dropped lower with the built in fan controller (it will limit the range of operation), a knob that if you have it from 25% to 40% the fan can be dropped to 175rpms (you still need to undervolt to reach that low), tested on 2 motherboards, as long as your motherboard can do DC voltage control you will be able to get similar results.


----------



## war4peace

doyll said:


> Seems when someone tries to help you are ungrateful.


Look, I don't want to look like an arse, but my questions were very descriptive. All it takes is to read my post thoroughly and _understand_ it. 
I asked for "large, PWM, white, with smaller minimum RPM".
The answer contained "large, non-PWM, non-white, with higher minimum RPM". The only criteria respected was "large".
Sorry, but that doesn't qualify as "helpful", rather "I know of this fan, don't care if it suits you but there you have it". 

I am grateful for helpful responses, which that wasn't.



doyll said:


> 1 fan rated 15.6w is more than most standard fan headers which are rated for 1 amp / 12 w cann safely control. No idea how you figure you could run 2 on one fan header.


It should have been inferred from my second entry:
"I can't plug them into an *Aquaero* and control them from there." The aquaero 6 can do 35W per channel. Granted, it wasn't very descriptive.



Abula said:


> The AP182 can be dropped lower with the built in fan controller (it will limit the range of operation), a knob that if you have it from 25% to 40% the fan can be dropped to 175rpms (you still need to undervolt to reach that low), tested on 2 motherboards, as long as your motherboard can do DC voltage control you will be able to get similar results.


See above, I am plugging them into the Aquaero 6, fully automated control, it's ridiculous to manually turn four knobs every time there's a need to increase RPM. That's one of the things I have been trying to avoid for the lest 20 years or so


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I have CM 280mm AIO and stock fans are way too loud. Anything good in 1000-1400 rpm range.


----------



## Abula

@war4peace, what you want don't exist, simple as that. You either have to chose to do things differently or get smaller fans. I talked to Silverstone rep long time ago about PWM AP182, and they have not plans.



> See above, I am plugging them into the Aquaero 6, fully automated control, it's ridiculous to manually turn four knobs every time there's a need to increase RPM. That's one of the things I have been trying to avoid for the lest 20 years or so


 You seem to be missing the point, staying centered on the aquero limits what you can do, specially on a very niche market of fans that you have chosen. I tried to show you that the knob is not what you think in your mind, i only touch the knob once in 3 years, think of them as you chose the range of operation you want, by this i mean a min and max, the knob and loop are not the usual knob you have used in the past, the fan behavior changes not only the rpm but the way it react to certain voltage, you can see that on the graphs i posted above.

Think of the knobs like having different version of the AP182, the automated controls or ramping the fans can still and should be done by the motherboard. Again you dont need to turn on or off the knobs, you simply take the knob into the range you would like it to work, then you shouldnt need to change it ever, if you motherboard can control dc and you set it up, it will ramp up and down the AP182 depending on your settings.

Now something that i dont recommend but might work with your aquero, is installing an Phanteks PWM Fan Hub Controller (PH-PWHUB_01), it takes a PWM signal and does the conversion to DC, so in essence it should work, but im unsure into what ranges of voltages it will deliver, specially with the high draw of the AP182. If you wish to read more check Doylls post on the Phantek forums.


----------



## Ceadderman

ZealotKi11er said:


> I have CM 280mm AIO and stock fans are way too loud. Anything good in 1000-1400 rpm range.


CM fans suck because they're noisy. Just replace the fans with better options. EK makes a reasonable 140. So does Noctua and Silverstone.

@war4peace... Dude there aren't many companies that make a 200+ fan. Even fewer make ones that fit the needs in your wants list. Specifically PWM. Instead of asking here or anywhere else, try Google. Google is your friend. I remembered that Silverstone makes a 200, searched Google and viola. 

*iirc* there are one 4 or 5 choices for 200s. Three of them are CM, Silverstone and BitFenix. Cannot be helped if they aren't PWM as they don't make PWM. Silverstone makes White as well as Black body fans. So I figured if you can't get PWM they were the closest to your needs. Oh and some fans can be nodded to be PWM. But meh. Oh and the "grill" on those is actually the frame body. On the back of the body it is the hub support you're looking at. On the front it should be open and uncluttered. :mellowsmi

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## doyll

war4peace said:


> Look, I don't want to look like an arse


Then stop acting out like you have been. We are very helpful people here. Give us a little slack and you will get all the help you could ever want.



ZealotKi11er said:


> I have CM 280mm AIO and stock fans are way too loud. Anything good in 1000-1400 rpm range.


There are quieter fans but the problem is they will probably not move as much air as your stock fans do and that means your temps will be higher.

How do you have your cooler mounted? 
How old is it? 
What is air temp into cooler?


----------



## Abaidor

@war4peace

I also have a MO-RA 420 and went through the same process of looking for 20mm fans although I did not care about white since mine is the stainless steel version. I even played with the thought of going completely custom with some industrial or A/C or whatever huge fan but quickly abandoned the thought as pointless.

I ended up with 9 X Corsair ML140 Pro fans since this configuration (140mm fans) will get you the best possible results with this radiator. 200mm fans are simply nowhere near as good as 140mm ones for radiator use.

Since you want white I would look at the PHANTEKS PH-F140MP. Get 9 of them, connect them to Aquero (only 0.2amps per fan) and enjoy silence + performance. I admit that the ML140 Pros I got are overkill for the MO-RA 420 since this rad is optimized for very low rpm fans. 

This is what I would do or keep the Bitfenix ones you have.


----------



## Ceadderman

doyll said:


> Then stop acting out like you have been. We are very helpful people here. Give us a little slack and you will get all the help you could ever want.
> 
> 
> There are quieter fans but the problem is they will probably not move as much air as your stock fans do and that means your temps will be higher.
> 
> How do you have your cooler mounted?
> How old is it?
> What is air temp into cooler?


doylls' rule! 

The problem with the CM 280(or any CoolerMaster AIO for that matter) is they don't make good watercooling fans. Just replace them with high static pressure fans and be done with it. Better to buy a new horse than to spend wasted money looking for someone to resurrect it. Again we are in the realm of little to no options in the 140 range. Silverstone, Noctua and EK. Don't want to spend $50 for 2 fans? Go with Yate Loon 140s. They aren't watercooling fans but have reasonably decent static pressure and can be dialed back if they are too noisy. And you can get them in PWM. :thumb:

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## war4peace

Abula said:


> @war4peace, what you want don't exist, simple as that.


Perfect, all I needed to know 



Abula said:


> I talked to Silverstone rep long time ago about PWM AP182, and they have not plans.


I'm sure they aren't the only manufacturer of large fans in the world 



Abula said:


> You seem to be missing the point, staying centered on the aquero limits what you can do, specially on a very niche market of fans that you have chosen. I tried to show you that the knob is not what you think in your mind, i only touch the knob once in 3 years, think of them as you chose the range of operation you want, by this i mean a min and max, the knob and loop are not the usual knob you have used in the past, the fan behavior changes not only the rpm but the way it react to certain voltage, you can see that on the graphs i posted above.


I understand that. I could say you are missing the point too  because what I asked for was very specific for a reason.
The fans are hidden behind a large grille that covers the whole radiator+fan enclosure. The four fans go into a Splitty9 which is connected to a fan header on the Aquaero. The machine is built in such a way that everything is automated and controlled by the Aquaero. Fans are physically unreachable unless I take a screwdriver to the build. Therefore anything requiring manual intervention is a no-go.
Anything higher than 800-900 RPM is useless. My build is passively cooled while idle, with liquid temperatures never exceeding 40 degrees Celsius. I was merely curious whether there is an alternative to what I own right now, apparently there isn't, no problem, I'll check again next year 

The Aquaero "limits" me? Have you ever owned one?


----------



## doyll

war4peace said:


> The Aquaero "limits" me? Have you ever owned one?


I have to admit, I wondered the same thing when I read his reply.  While new motherboards have way more fan support than they used to, aquaero 6 has many features not available elsewhere. Even old aquaero 5 can do amazing things.


----------



## Ceadderman

Dude, try reading before replying. Out of the oodles upon oodles of fan manufacturers around the world, there are very few who make a 200mm or larger fan. I named 3 of them. You own one. I own one. But those two companies and Silverstone are pretty much your only options. I can't remember off the top of my noodle but I think maybe Noctua does... and then maybe Phobya. So that's 5 and none of them PWM unless you can mod for it. Cannot mod my CM 200/230 units. I have already checked them. But maybe there are units in the wild that can be modded so I won't slam the door shut on that idea.

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## doyll

Ceadderman said:


> Dude, try reading before replying. Out of the oodles upon oodles of fan manufacturers around the world, there are very few who make a 200mm or larger fan. I named 3 of them. You own one. I own one. But those two companies and Silverstone are pretty much your only options. I can't remember off the top of my noodle but I think maybe Noctua does... and then maybe Phobya. So that's 5 and none of them PWM unless you can mod for it. Cannot mod my CM 200/230 units. I have already checked them. But maybe there are units in the wild that can be modded so I won't slam the door shut on that idea.
> 
> ~Ceadder :drink:


Well,, Phanteks makes one, but it's no good like most others. a single decent 140mm fan will move similar amount of air against normal resistances like what they have to overcome with grills and filters.


----------



## Ceadderman

doyll said:


> Well,, Phanteks makes one, but it's no good like most others. a single decent 140mm fan will move similar amount of air against normal resistances like what they have to overcome with grills and filters.


Well at least the market is expanding... slowly. 

I decided against 200+ cooling solutions where radiators are concerned due to size constraints even in my HAF cases. My current modding current, I am cutting out the 200/120 mount surface so I can add a steel panel inside the front of the 932 that is cut to fit a single 360 radiator with Intake fans in the front. No drive cages there anymore. Modded the back of the MB tray to mount two SSDs and will mod the botom front of the tray to mount a single 3.5 HDD for storage and to use as a cable cover for cable management. Tons of room opened up since I pulled the drive cages out but no matter what I could think to do up front I couldn't bring myself to consider a 2x230 Radiator up front. Sure it could be cool but I want to keep the bits that make a 932 a 932. Somewhat. :thumb:

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## war4peace

Ceadderman said:


> Dude, try reading before replying. Out of the oodles upon oodles of fan manufacturers around the world, there are very few who make a 200mm or larger fan. I named 3 of them. You own one. I own one. But those two companies and Silverstone are pretty much your only options. I can't remember off the top of my noodle but I think maybe Noctua does... and then maybe Phobya. So that's 5 and none of them PWM unless you can mod for it. Cannot mod my CM 200/230 units. I have already checked them. But maybe there are units in the wild that can be modded so I won't slam the door shut on that idea.
> 
> ~Ceadder :drink:


Noctua makes 200mm PWM fans.
BitFenix makes a ton of different 230mm fans, some are PWM.
Then there's Aerocool, Coolermaster, NZXT, Phobya. There's even a 220mm fan made by Akasa. We can include Enermax with their 180mm fans if you wish. 

There is variety, I just hoped there would be something I missed, hence my question


----------



## Ceadderman

war4peace said:


> Noctua makes 200mm PWM fans.
> BitFenix makes a ton of different 230mm fans, some are PWM.
> Then there's Aerocool, Coolermaster, NZXT, Phobya. There's even a 220mm fan made by Akasa. We can include Enermax with their 180mm fans if you wish.
> 
> There is variety, I just hoped there would be something I missed, hence my question


Ahhh okay. I knew of most but as I said earlier been awhile since 200s' were of use to me. Sadly 200mm fans are considered more of a case fan than a Radiator fan. Most manufacturers won't think of adding PWM for that reason. Enthusiasts are pretty much the only segment that worries about sound and PWM to control it. 

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## CJMitsuki

war4peace said:


> I have installed Noctua A20 PWM on a friend's build (also on MoRa 420) and they go as low as 350 RPM... but they're ugly.


Since the A20s are doing everything you want them to and Noctua are amazing fans (I have an A20 and it is great) take the ugly fan and some specialty spraypaint and do some work yourself and make them white and you can get some white rubber corner dampers iirc. Bam! Theres your solution but you just have to do some work yourself. Possibly even feel a sense of accomplishment doing it yourself. Worst that can happen is the painting doesnt look great then all you have to do is let it dry then sand and apply a light coat of satin or gloss clear coat. Whatever you wish to do, thats the beauty of modifications.


----------



## Kokin

You could also use dyes as an alternative to prevent throwing the fan blades off balance. I had another forum member make me PWM GTs with white frames and black blades/hub. The dyes are certainly a thinner layer than the spraypainted GTs I used prior.


----------



## ppn7

Hi what do you think about arctic f12 fan ? I bought 5 of them to put in 240 and 360 slim rad


----------



## Ceadderman

If you're doing it correctly paint won't throw the hub into an imbalanced state. Just tap the trigger lightly and paint it in steps rather than trying to get it all in one coat. I suggest Rustoleum universal advanced formula because of the trigger and because it has primer in the mix. Anyone who carries that brand of paint carries it in White Satin and Gloss. 

So just tap and pass a few times first coat. Let it dry and follow up with the next. Should only take 2-3 passes for the hub and blades each side. The same with the body. Use Newspaper and tape or Frog Tape to mask things that shouldn't be painted. The shaft and bearing portion of the blade hub. An Xacto blade to trim hanging tags to keep things neat and tidy. :thumb:

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## doyll

True dyes will only work with darker colors .. you can't do a white dye on a brown fan, but the kind of dye Kokin is talking about is more a thin paint than a dye. It is available in spray and brush on dye that is more for use on shoes and upholstery (upholstery like leather and vinyl seats). I've used the spray dye on fans and it works well, but so does spray paint like Ceadderman said.




ppn7 said:


> Hi what do you think about arctic f12 fan ? I bought 5 of them to put in 240 and 360 slim rad


Arctic fans are not great but they are very good for a very low price. Their value packs can be found from $15 to $25 when top tier fans are $15-30 each. So even if one out of a economy 5-pack is bad or they start going bad after a couple years instead of lasting 5+ years their price makes them a clear winner for many applications. Just a bit more info; Phanteks does 120mm & 140mm fans in 2-pack, 3-pack and 5-pack specials a couple times a year. Last ones I saw were PH-F120MP 2-pack for $15 and 3-pack for $26 .. PH-F140MP 2-pack for $16.26, but I don't think there are any of these specials right now. While not as low priced as Arctic fans, Phanteks PH-F120MP & PH-F140MP are definitely better fans at a very good price in multipacks .. if you can find them.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

Are there any budget black 140mm PWM fans that perform good on thin rads (nemesis GTS) I think if ur rad is thin and low fpi u dont really need to look for static pressure ? Had the phanteks F140MP before but wasnt really impressed, for the price, probably 500-1000rpm is all I can take noise wise, and the cheaper the better ofcourse, might need 8 of them.


----------



## doyll

outofmyheadyo said:


> Are there any budget black 140mm PWM fans that perform good on thin rads (nemesis GTS) I think if ur rad is thin and low fpi u dont really need to look for static pressure ? Had the phanteks F140MP before but wasnt really impressed, for the price, probably 500-1000rpm is all I can take noise wise, and the cheaper the better ofcourse, might need 8 of them.


PH-F140MP are in the mid-level performance to price, so if you were not happy with them you are probably going to have a hard time finding a fan that pleases you for much less money. Maybe try the Arctic F140 PWM are the lowest priced and not sure how well they will do on rads. 

I've always liked Thermalright TY-14x series fans. They make square TY-147A SQ and TY-143 SQ models. 

FrozenPC sell Cooljag Everflow model # R121425SL140mm variable voltage 1500rpm for $10.99. 
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15477/fan-966/Cooljag_Everflow_140mm_x_25mm_Fan_R121425SL.html
PugetSound sell Cooljag Everflow F121425BUAF 2500rpm for $15.65.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/store/item.php?cat=Additional+Cooling&id=9355&com=d41d8cd9&que=140

Maybe contact CooljagUSA and ask about Mfg Part: F121425BUAF / Model # F121425BUAF It's basically same as Thermalright TY-143 SQ being 600-2500rpm, 126cfm, 5.22mm H2O
http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?m=content&a=index&classid=82&id=108

Same OEM for these CoolJag fans as Thermalright TY-14x SQ fans.


----------



## outofmyheadyo

I am in Europe so importing anything from the US would result in multiplying the cost of the items + delivery with 1.4 and thats part of the reason I payed like 20€ per F140mp, phanteks doesnt seem to be big here. The corsair ML140 twin packs are like 25€ for 2 fans and from what I hear they are decent, and I can grab some spray and get rid of the nasty grey blades. Paying more for a budget fan would kind of defeat the purpose, if I wanted to pay 30€ per fan there are always the Noctua 140mm industrials and Corsair LL and such, but I dont really like spending that much on fans anymore after buying 5x darkside gentle typhoons for 125€ a few years back and being so totally dissapointed by them, yes soundprofile was nice but the clicking drove me bananas.


----------



## doyll

outofmyheadyo said:


> I am in Europe so importing anything from the US would result in multiplying the cost of the items + delivery with 1.4 and thats part of the reason I payed like 20€ per F140mp, phanteks doesnt seem to be big here. The corsair ML140 twin packs are like 25€ for 2 fans and from what I hear they are decent, and I can grab some spray and get rid of the nasty grey blades.


I understand the problem. 

Keep your eyes open for Cooljag Everflow. Wherever I've seen them they are reasonably priced. and ones that look like Thermalright TY impeller are good. 

I have not used ML140 but 25€ for 2-pack is only 12.50€ making it worth trying out .. at least I would try them at that price. Here they are around £21 or more each .. I do see some ML120 for about £25 for 2-pack.


----------



## loonz

Anyone have experience with TY-147A as front intake fans for the Meshify C? I was planning to upgrade my intake fans to Noctua A14, but have a few TY-147A that I could use instead.


----------



## doyll

loonz said:


> Anyone have experience with TY-147A as front intake fans for the Meshify C? I was planning to upgrade my intake fans to Noctua A14, but have a few TY-147A that I could use instead.


Being a 150x141mm fan I don't know if they would even fit. Thermalright make TY-147A SQ (square version) and I'm sure it will fit and work well. I have cut the round sides flat to 141mm and even made 105mm mounting hole to 124.5mm mounting hole adapter plates to use TY-140, TY-147A fans where 140x140mm square fans were needed. Below are links to guides for both. 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/23389814-post36.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/23207921-post23.html


----------



## loonz

Thanks for the reply I totally forgot about the shape of the TY-147 guess I'll be getting NF-A14 thanks!



doyll said:


> Being a 150x141mm fan I don't know if they would even fit. Thermalright make TY-147A SQ (square version) and I'm sure it will fit and work well. I have cut the round sides flat to 141mm and even made 105mm mounting hole to 124.5mm mounting hole adapter plates to use TY-140, TY-147A fans where 140x140mm square fans were needed. Below are links to guides for both.
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/23389814-post36.html
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/23207921-post23.html


----------



## doyll

loonz said:


> Thanks for the reply I totally forgot about the shape of the TY-147 guess I'll be getting NF-A14 thanks!


Where are you located? The square ones or similar are sometimes available if you know where to look.


----------



## loonz

doyll said:


> Where are you located? The square ones or similar are sometimes available if you know where to look.


California, I don't see any listed on nans gaming gear site. Never mind I lied found some from the Amazon Nansgaming store front.


----------



## doyll

loonz said:


> California, I don't see any listed on nans gaming gear site.


Nans is horrible about stocking, even products that sell well. 

Cooljag Everflow 140mm 1500rpm (R121425SL) fan is basically the same with variable voltage control instead of PWM and available from FrozenCPU for $10.99. While I'm not sure what they will idle down to I would guess in the 400-500rpm range.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15477/fan-966/Cooljag_Everflow_140mm_x_25mm_Fan_R121425SL.html

CooljagUSA lists several of these 140x25mm with variable voltage motors in different speed ranges .
http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?m=content&a=index&classid=82&id=87

This Cooljag is same basic fan as TY-143 SQ in all black instead of red/orange
http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?m=content&a=index&classid=82&id=108

Puget Systems did have them in stock but they don't give a price when I just looked
https://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/Additional-Cooling/Cooljag-Everflow-140mm-PWM-Fan-9355

You might want to take a look at Phanteks PH-F140MP fan. It's quite good and lower priced than Noctua. They often sell 2-pack and 3-pack even better prices.


----------



## loonz

doyll said:


> Nans is horrible about stocking, even products that sell well.
> 
> Cooljag Everflow 140mm 1500rpm (R121425SL) fan is basically the same with variable voltage control instead of PWM and available from FrozenCPU for $10.99. While I'm not sure what they will idle down to I would guess in the 400-500rpm range.
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15477/fan-966/Cooljag_Everflow_140mm_x_25mm_Fan_R121425SL.html
> 
> CooljagUSA lists several of these 140x25mm with variable voltage motors in different speed ranges .
> http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?m=content&a=index&classid=82&id=87
> 
> This Cooljag is same basic fan as TY-143 SQ in all black instead of red/orange
> http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?m=content&a=index&classid=82&id=108
> 
> Puget Systems did have them in stock but they don't give a price when I just looked
> https://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/Additional-Cooling/Cooljag-Everflow-140mm-PWM-Fan-9355
> 
> You might want to take a look at Phanteks PH-F140MP fan. It's quite good and lower priced than Noctua. They often sell 2-pack and 3-pack even better prices.


Thanks for the suggestions I ended up getting the NF-A14 since eBay has a 15% discount on orders over $25.


----------



## Rektified

What about buying directly from Thermalright.com?


----------



## doyll

loonz said:


> Thanks for the suggestions I ended up getting the NF-A14 since eBay has a 15% discount on orders over $25.


NF-A14 is good fan .. as good as others suggested if at similar price. 



Rektified said:


> What about buying directly from Thermalright.com?


Usually because they are in Taiwan so shipping cost is crasy to Europe or Americas .. even Australia & New Zealand .. basically anywhere but Taiwan, and I think Thermalright is in reatail shops in Taiwan.


----------



## Skylinestar

Rektified said:


> What about buying directly from Thermalright.com?


I don't see a Thermalright online store. ???


----------



## doyll

Skylinestar said:


> I don't see a Thermalright online store. ???


Thermalright is like most companies who sell wholesale to retail outlets, they do not compete with companies buying from them by selling direct. Sometimes these companies will sell direct to consumer but that is the exception to the rule .. like Phanteks does sell direct in USA, but their prices are suggusted retail which is often higher than others. This is because for them to be fair to the retail companies buying from them they have to sell pretty much sell at suggested retail.


----------



## czin125

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?ft=t&spm=a21m2.8958473.0.0.65c953f37ZUtt7&id=555097733400
~19.65 to 20.00 USD equivalent
An unlisted Gentle Typhoon that is 100% black (RPM appears to be 1850 from another site). It's 7 blades with a ring instead of 9. Not sure if all of them have this color though.
Made in Indonesia instead of Vietnam

http://www.nidec-servo.com/en/digital/g_fab/dcfan_120.html
Power draw is in between the 2150 and 1850
13.6x 87 = 1.1832W
12x123 = 1.476W
12x83 = 0.996W

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Scy...on-13-6v-PWM-ultra-quiet-fan/32829571835.html
13.6V and 0.087A 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Darkside/Gentle_Typhoon_1450_Black_Edition/
This one still has gray metal interior.


----------



## Rektified

GTs aren't made in Indonesia anymore. That's possibly very old stock or fake listing with possibly the Vietnam counterparts.

The ones listed on their website are very very hard to find, almost non existent.


----------



## Melcar

Do you guys know if FrozenCPU is good again? I really want another TY-143, and they are the only ones that I have seen still carries them.


----------



## Rektified

Melcar said:


> Do you guys know if FrozenCPU is good again? I really want another TY-143, and they are the only ones that I have seen still carries them.


I was in talks with Alex, their products ordering manager, or something, about getting the square versions of the fan, he seemed to have wanted to order them, but went silent 2 weeks ago even after I messaged him. Just messaged him again.

I thought frozencpu (apart from the owner meltdown few years back) was the go to place nowadays? PPCs read lots of neg feedback here.


----------



## Melcar

After the meltdown I never bothered with them again. Lost a few $$$ and decided to cut my losses. Been happy with PerformancePCs for a few years now. Them an Newegg haver never failed me on any of my international orders. I just want that fan rather bad and was wondering if people still buy from them.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk


----------



## Skylinestar

Will this double fan tech work its magic?
http://www.aigodiy.com/products_detail/productId=118.html


----------



## ttnuagmada

Ricwin said:


> Quote: Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I've never used a be quiet! product I was not pleased with.
> What was did you not like about them?
> 
> 
> They've been hyped up so much on here and other palces like LTT and Reddit; but I found them to be noisy, airflow was frankly crap and they only ran at a set speed.
> BL064 model, 3 pin connector, 1450rpm. I tested them on an NZXT Grid v2, connected directly to my Asus Sabertooth, and connected to mobo in a second PC: in all instances, both the fans stayed around 1320rpm.


That's sad to hear. I have 25 SW3's in my SMA8 and have not had a single problem with a single one of them. I tested them against GT's, ML120's, Vardar 3's and NF-F12 ippc 2000's on my XE360, and the SW3's matched the Noctua's and beat the GT's at sub-800 RPM. On top of that, they were the quietest and had the best sound signature at 1400 rpm. The Vardars and GT's sound god-awful much north of 900 rpm. The ML's sounded OK, but their performance at a given RPM was lacking compared to the rest of the fans. I went with the SW3's over the Noctuas just because Newegg was selling the SW3's in bulk and they were like 50% cheaper. Could not be happier.


----------



## Kana Chan

It looks like 25mm or 30mm rather than 38mm.


----------



## czin125

It looks like the black one has a thicker interior or could be the angle?
https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1373173/b/bb/bb998819_GTFanParts.png


----------



## Ceadderman

czin125 said:


> It looks like the black one has a thicker interior or could be the angle?
> https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1373173/b/bb/bb998819_GTFanParts.png


Angle. Kind of odd that black fan has a ring built into the blade section. Never seen anything like that from a GT. :mellowsmi 

~Ceadder :drink:


----------



## deepor

czin125 said:


> It looks like the black one has a thicker interior or could be the angle?
> https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1373173/b/bb/bb998819_GTFanParts.png





Ceadderman said:


> Angle. Kind of odd that black fan has a ring built into the blade section. Never seen anything like that from a GT. :mellowsmi


It seems that "D1225C12B7AP-29" on the right is a 3000 RPM fan. That ring perhaps has to do with something strange happening to the air movement at that kind of speed? Or maybe it's there to make the impeller more solid for safety reasons?


----------



## gamefoo21

At those fan speeds the blades start to flex, the ring is there to keep them from smacking into the frame. It makes the blades far more rigid. If you notice the impeller is also made of glass reinforced plastic.

So it's safety, noise, and performance(can help to direct air flow).


----------



## 8051

gamefoo21 said:


> At those fan speeds the blades start to flex, the ring is there to keep them from smacking into the frame. It makes the blades far more rigid. If you notice the impeller is also made of glass reinforced plastic.
> 
> So it's safety, noise, and performance(can help to direct air flow).


Is this because there are so many fan blades? Because I have delta fans that spin at least as fast and they don't have the rings.


----------



## gamefoo21

8051 said:


> Is this because there are so many fan blades? Because I have delta fans that spin at least as fast and they don't have the rings.


The Deltas use thicker and as a result heavier blades. I've got some Delta's, a Pabst, and a few SanAce fans. The one SanAce that spins up nearly as fast, with the same style of blades, has a stabilizer ring in the blades just like that GTB.


----------



## Melcar

So guys. I recently bought a pair of new TY-143s from Amazon since they were back in stock and I really like the ones I have already. First thing that caught my eye was the sticker on the fan hub. Different color on the sticker itself and the logo also has a different color scheme. The box is the same with the same specs printed out, and the fan looks the same. However, once I mounted it on my case and plugged it into a spare pwm port I noticed that it had a slightly different pwm curve. The fan now drops all the way to 200 rpm at 30% pwm as opposed to my other two fans with minimums of 600 rpm. A bit surprised by this to be honest.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk


----------



## doyll

Melcar said:


> So guys. I recently bought a pair of new TY-143s from Amazon since they were back in stock and I really like the ones I have already. First thing that caught my eye was the sticker on the fan hub. Different color on the sticker itself and the logo also has a different color scheme. The box is the same with the same specs printed out, and the fan looks the same. However, once I mounted it on my case and plugged it into a spare pwm port I noticed that it had a slightly different pwm curve. The fan now drops all the way to 200 rpm at 30% pwm as opposed to my other two fans with minimums of 600 rpm. A bit surprised by this to be honest.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk


I know it's a dumb question but are you sure you are using PWM control, or is it possible the header you are using is variable voltage?


----------



## The Pook

Melcar said:


> So guys. I recently bought a pair of new TY-143s from Amazon since they were back in stock and I really like the ones I have already. First thing that caught my eye was the sticker on the fan hub. Different color on the sticker itself and the logo also has a different color scheme. The box is the same with the same specs printed out, and the fan looks the same. However, once I mounted it on my case and plugged it into a spare pwm port I noticed that it had a slightly different pwm curve. The fan now drops all the way to 200 rpm at 30% pwm as opposed to my other two fans with minimums of 600 rpm. A bit surprised by this to be honest.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk



I've got two TY-147Bs running top intake in my case currently - one won't spin under 500 and one is fine down to 200 but both top out at ~1400. I run them at 800 so it's a non issue but it seems like quality control issue


----------



## Melcar

doyll said:


> I know it's a dumb question but are you sure you are using PWM control, or is it possible the header you are using is variable voltage?



PWM. Both new fans spindown to 200 rpm. Fluke maybe? Did TR actually tweak the fans? Don't know. All of them top of at 2400-2490 rpm.


----------



## Melcar

The Pook said:


> I've got two TY-147Bs running top intake in my case currently - one won't spin under 500 and one is fine down to 200 but both top out at ~1400. I run them at 800 so it's a non issue but it seems like quality control issue



Thinking the same, QC. At 40% PWM they spin at around 600 rpm, so yeah, it could be just a batch that got screwed up PWM circuitry.


----------



## doyll

Melcar said:


> PWM. Both new fans spindown to 200 rpm. Fluke maybe? Did TR actually tweak the fans? Don't know. All of them top of at 2400-2490 rpm.


Thanks. talk to Thermalright every month or so and know nothing about lower idle speed on TY-143. They have a new China website with some different products but nothing about lower idle speeds there either. I'll do some digging and see what I can find out. Obviously speeds can vary 10% and still be within specification, so 2250-2750rpm would be withing that 10%, but 200rpm idle is not even close to spec for TY-143. Even Ty-147A 300-1300rpm with 10% variance at idle is still 270rpm minimum.


----------



## Melcar

I'm now sure it's a bad batch, or they changed something. Sound profile is rather different, it has noticeable bearing noise, and it hums. The original pair I have has none of these issues.


----------



## doyll

Melcar said:


> I'm now sure it's a bad batch, or they changed something. Sound profile is rather different, it has noticeable bearing noise, and it hums. The original pair I have has none of these issues.


Knowing you I assume you tried one of these new fans on same fan header you have olders ones on and it does the same lower rpm on there too? :thumb:


----------



## Melcar

doyll said:


> Knowing you I assume you tried one of these new fans on same fan header you have olders ones on and it does the same lower rpm on there too? :thumb:



Yeah, tried with the same fan headers with all fans. The PWM curve on the new fans seems to be slightly shifted. On the old ones I usually have a straight PWM curve from 30% to 60%, which gives me a rpm range of 650-1460 or so. On the new ones I have to set it to 40% to 65% to get the same basic rpm response. Honestly, this is not a big problem for me since my board has several true PWM headers and they can all be configured independently. However, the louder hum/ticking and bearing noises I can't stand.


----------



## doyll

Melcar said:


> Yeah, tried with the same fan headers with all fans. The PWM curve on the new fans seems to be slightly shifted. On the old ones I usually have a straight PWM curve from 30% to 60%, which gives me a rpm range of 650-1460 or so. On the new ones I have to set it to 40% to 65% to get the same basic rpm response. Honestly, this is not a big problem for me since my board has several true PWM headers and they can all be configured independently. However, the louder hum/ticking and bearing noises I can't stand.


Thermalright is moving it's offices so things are in turmoil, but my contact said he was not aware of this change / fan variant. I have to wonder if they might be counterfeit/black market copies of real thing. Could you pm me a link to where you got them?


----------



## Melcar

doyll said:


> Thermalright is moving it's offices so things are in turmoil, but my contact said he was not aware of this change / fan variant. I have to wonder if they might be counterfeit/black market copies of real thing. Could you pm me a link to where you got them?



PM sent. When I take my rig down over the weekend I will take a picture of the fan with the new sticker and logo.


----------



## doyll

Melcar said:


> PM sent. When I take my rig down over the weekend I will take a picture of the fan with the new sticker and logo.


Thanks! Yeah, good images of sticker and logo might make it easier to figure out, Although as far as I know Nan's Gaming Gear is the only official Thermalright dealer for USA selling on both Amazon and NewEgg sites.


----------



## Melcar

doyll said:


> Thanks! Yeah, good images of sticker and logo might make it easier to figure out, Although as far as I know Nan's Gaming Gear is the only official Thermalright dealer for USA selling on both Amazon and NewEgg sites.


Images of the fans. The one with the white circle around the hub sticker is the new one from Amazon. The older fan I got from a dedicated import site a few years ago. The Amazon fan supposedly comes directly from Nan's, while the other one I have no idea (I suppose from the same source).









Other than the hub sticker, both fans look and weight the same. Both have within spec max speeds but the Amazon one idles all the way to 200 rpm with a slightly different pwm response in the 20-70% range. The Amazon one also has much louder bearing noise and motor hum.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk


----------



## doyll

Thanks!

My new Silver Arrow AM4 cooler's TY-143 has same color labels as your old TY-143 but they are not identical. 

Your new TY-143 label colors and layout are the same as TY-147B that came with new ARO-M14O cooler (except of course for model number and specs). None of mine have labels the same as your new ones. I looked on Thermalright-China website adn don't find one the same as your new ones there either, but can't find good image views there. I'll let you know if I find out anything.


----------



## PontiacGTX

Can someone explain me how the XAF 1253 is onyl 1500RPM and get such good numbers (but awful noise level)?


----------



## rapkct

Speaking of TY-143s, apparently there's a new variant of the square fans that showed up in China called the TY-143SP. This is one of the pictures shown in the listing, with details of the specs (should be self-explanatory):



















I'm not sure are those legitimate or not. @doyll, any info you have on them? There's also the TY-143B which is basically the traditional TY-143 with similar max rpm as the SP.


----------



## D-EJ915

I like how the holes on the rubber bits don't even reach the screw holes properly. I wish the Cooljag version of those fans had higher max rpm.


----------



## jayfkay

how to read this thread?  the OP is completely messed up


----------



## doyll

jayfkay said:


> how to read this thread?  the OP is completely messed up


Forum move messed up all kinds of things. I spent days fixing my "Ways to Better Cooling Cooler & Fan Data.." thread and still not done.


----------



## doyll

Below is first few lines of opening post with HTML for test removed. It's close to what it should be. Just doesn't have indents, bold text, etc. Problem is that OCN switched website server to VerticalScope (new server) their system didn't read/use same HTML (programing language) as old one, so we end up with all old HTML showing up in posts.

*ENTERPRISE
Administrator *posted below statement about problem 11 days ago:



> "Nothing to do with OCN, we do what we can with the tools afforded us.
> 
> However as an update, the HTML cleanup fix has passed QA and is ready for deployment but VS have given no timeline as to when they will deploy the fix just yet."


Below is text with HTML taken out. At least its kinda readable, but doesn't has bold text, indents, etc. in it. like original did.

LNA = Low Noise Adaptor
ULNA = Ultra Low Noise Adaptotrong
120 mm Fans - Temperature(Click to show)
Lower is better.
Push/Pull: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833388/


http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833388/width/1000/height/5000/flags/LL


Push: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833389/


http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833389/width/1000/height/5000/flags/LL


Pull: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833390/
http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833390/width/1000/height/5000/flags/LL" style=
120 mm Fans - Noise (Click to show)
Lower is better.
Push/Pull: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833391/


http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833391/width/1000/height/5000/flags/LL


Push: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833392/

*LNA = Low Noise Adaptor
ULNA = Ultra Low Noise Adaptor

*
*120 mm Fans - Temperature* (Click to show)*
Lower is better.

Push/Pull:

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833388/]







[/URL]

Push:

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833389/]







[/URL]

Pull:

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833390/]







[/URL]
*
*120 mm Fans - Noise* (Click to show)*
Lower is better.

Push/Pull:

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833391/]







[/URL]

Push:

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2833392/]







[/URL]*


----------



## jayfkay

doyll said:


> Below is text with HTML taken out. At least its kinda readable, but doesn't has bold text, indents, etc. in it. like original did.


Cheers, I took a good look at the graphs, however it seems they were only tested for radiator performance?

Meshify C with 2 Arctic P14s as intake and B-12PS Noiseblocker as exhaust, should be good?


----------



## doyll

jayfkay said:


> Cheers, I took a good look at the graphs, however it seems they were only tested for radiator performance?
> 
> Meshify C with 2 Arctic P14s as intake and B-12PS Noiseblocker as exhaust, should be good?


Meshify C with front full of 120/140mm fans, maybe a bottom intake, block all openings not covered by intakes in front half of case so air fans are pushing into case has to flow through case not leak around fans and go in circles. Remove all PCIe back slot covers to increase rear venting area / exhaust airflow around GPU and set case fans to cycle so air entering cooler is 3c or less warrmer than room. Link below gives more info about optimizing case airflow:








* * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan...


Got tired of posting instructions and guides over and over and over, so decided to start a thread for them. Please do not post unnecessarily as it will make it harder for others to find what they are looking for. This thread is not for opinions of the data or tutorials. If you have questions...




www.overclock.net





Basically if a fan performs well on radiators they almost always perform well in our other applications.


----------



## paskowitz

Haven't really paid attention to fans in a while. What's the best black, 120mm, radiator fan ATM? I have NB eLoops and quite like them (great <1000rpm), but I only use them in push config. Looking for a fan that is good in push as well as pull.


----------



## dwolvin

Id say that the ARCTIC P14 PWM PST has to be with up there.








P14 PWM PST | Pressure-optimised 140 mm Fan with PWM PST | ARCTIC


The P14 PWM PST is a pressure-optimised 140 mm fan. ARCTICs innovative PWM Sharing Technology (PST) allows a synchornized fan setup for ideal cooling…




www.arctic.ac


----------



## D-EJ915

paskowitz said:


> Haven't really paid attention to fans in a while. What's the best black, 120mm, radiator fan ATM? I have NB eLoops and quite like them (great <1000rpm), but I only use them in push config. Looking for a fan that is good in push as well as pull.


If it has to be black there is always the darkside branded gentle typhoon, it has black blades.


----------



## ciarlatano

paskowitz said:


> Haven't really paid attention to fans in a while. What's the best black, 120mm, radiator fan ATM? I have NB eLoops and quite like them (great <1000rpm), but I only use them in push config. Looking for a fan that is good in push as well as pull.





D-EJ915 said:


> If it has to be black there is always the darkside branded gentle typhoon, it has black blades.


You can also look at the be quiet! Silent Wings 3. Performance is similar to the GT, but with a much smoother and less invasive sound signature.


----------



## paskowitz

ciarlatano said:


> You can also look at the be quiet! Silent Wings 3. Performance is similar to the GT, but with a much smoother and less invasive sound signature.


As a point of comparison, where would eLoops rank on that graph? I know they aren't "the best", but I like their sound signature (hum more than a buzz or whir). I'll consider bequiet.


----------



## doyll

paskowitz said:


> Haven't really paid attention to fans in a while. What's the best black, 120mm, radiator fan ATM? I have NB eLoops and quite like them (great <1000rpm), but I only use them in push config. Looking for a fan that is good in push as well as pull.


Not sure what "best" one is, but be quiet! Silent Wing 3 120mm PWM high speed are definitely among the best if not best. Edit: as ciarlatano said.
Darkside Gentle Typhoon 2150 rpm is another one, not new, but still one of the best, as *D-EJ915 *said.


----------



## jayfkay

paskowitz said:


> As a point of comparison, where would eLoops rank on that graph? I know they aren't the best


120 or 140? for 140 they are pretty much the best, at least on the chart. Only the Vardar comes close, which I have not seen anyone mention anywhere tbh. SW3s are close but eh.


----------



## ciarlatano

jayfkay said:


> 120 or 140? for 140 they are pretty much the best, at least on the chart. Only the Vardar comes close, which I have not seen anyone mention anywhere tbh. SW3s are close but eh.


The eLoop 140mm is a bit of a special case in that it is 29mm thick rather than 25mm. This gives it a distinct advantage. However, the poster asking about this was specifically asking for a 120mm that is not an eLoop.

The Vardars don't get mentioned often as they have had numerous issues, and most find them to be very unpleasant sounding.


----------



## ciarlatano

paskowitz said:


> As a point of comparison, where would eLoops rank on that graph? I know they aren't "the best", but I like their sound signature (hum more than a buzz or whir). I'll consider bequiet.


Here are the graphs for both:



















If you pick any point of airflow, you see that the SW3 is quieter at the same amount of airflow. i.e., at 250 fpm the SW3 is 42.5 dBA, while the eLoop is 47.5 dBA. At lower rpm the difference is more pronounced in favor of the SW3.

I agree with you about the sound signature of the eLoops, they are a very smooth fan, but so are the SW3.


----------



## paskowitz

ciarlatano said:


> Here are the graphs for both:
> 
> I agree with you about the sound signature of the eLoops, they are a very smooth fan, but so are the SW3.


Awesome! Thank you for the reply.


----------



## rioja

jayfkay said:


> 120 or 140? for 140 they are pretty much the best, at least on the chart. Only the Vardar comes close, which I have not seen anyone mention anywhere tbh. SW3s are close but eh.


Where to get the latest chart for lower rpm (below 800) for 140mm fans?


----------



## rioja

What do you think about Scythe Kaze Flex 140? Is it new model came recently? It looks they perform quite well on a radiator










They can be RGB or in grey/black color PWM with 300-1200 rpm

















There is also version with found corners and it runs 300-1800 rpm but I’m not sure how well to mount it to a radiator


----------



## Melcar

rioja said:


> What do you think about Scythe Kaze Flex 140? Is it new model came recently? It looks they perform quite well on a radiator
> 
> View attachment 2469193
> 
> 
> They can be RGB or in grey/black color PWM with 300-1200 rpm
> 
> View attachment 2469194
> 
> View attachment 2469196
> 
> There is also version with found corners and it runs 300-1800 rpm but I’m not sure how well to mount it to a radiator
> 
> View attachment 2469201


They seem to have a similar blade design to the Thermalright TYs and Noctua NF-A14/15s, so I guess similar performance at the same rpm levels. Can't say about noise. And since it's Scythe, you can almost be confident the specs they list are somewhat accurate. Been meaning to get some to test (along with the slim 120mm for my GPU) but I keep remembering I have too many fans.


----------



## doyll

rioja said:


> What do you think about Scythe Kaze Flex 140? Is it new model came recently? It looks they perform quite well on a radiator
> 
> They can be RGB or in grey/black color PWM with 300-1200 rpm
> 
> There is also version with found corners and it runs 300-1800 rpm but I’m not sure how well to mount it to a radiator


Interesting looking fans. Their blade design has them spinning clockwise. TY-14x, NF-A14/15, etc. are all counter clockwise rotation, as are most fans. They are listed on retail sites but not on Scythe's own website. Their 300-1800rpm range sounds interesting. I've found Ty-14x series fans 300-1300rpm to be fast enough, but sometime they end up at full speed and it's always nice to have a few hundred rpm extra for extremely hot weather with dirty filters when running extreme loads. 

As Melcar said, they seem to have a similar blade design to the Thermalright TYs and Noctua NF-A14/15 (and a few others like Sigma Pro 140mm, Nzxt FX V2 & Cooljag Everflow). Hard to tell what pitch is, but probably similar as well. My guess is also similar performance at the same rpm levels.


----------



## Melcar

doyll said:


> Interesting looking fans. Their blade design has them spinning clockwise. TY-14x, NF-A14/15, etc. are all counter clockwise rotation, as are most fans. They are listed on retail sites but not on Scythe's own website. Their 300-1800rpm range sounds interesting. I've found Ty-14x series fans 300-1300rpm to be fast enough, but sometime they end up at full speed and it's always nice to have a few hundred rpm extra for extremely hot weather with dirty filters when running extreme loads.
> 
> As Melcar said, they seem to have a similar blade design to the Thermalright TYs and Noctua NF-A14/15 (and a few others like Sigma Pro 140mm, Nzxt FX V2 & Cooljag Everflow). Hard to tell what pitch is, but probably similar as well. My guess is also similar performance at the same rpm levels.


Listed on their US page, but not on their EU one. Weird. PerformancePCs had the 140mm versions for like $13 a piece a few months ago but I was dumb enough not to get them back then. They are usually around $18 for the 140mm ($22 RGB version) and around $15 for the 120mm ones. I haven't bothered to hunt down reviews for the fans, but if they are indeed comparable to Thermalright and Noctua fans they can be a great alternative to the hard to get TYs and the overpriced Noctuas.


----------



## rioja

I also can’t find Kaze Flex 140mm 1800 rpm *square* fan anywhere retail, 1800 versions available only in round form factor both grey plastic and rgb

And for radiators I guess square will suite better than round one not speaking about aesthetics

So I ordered normal plastic 1200 version for testing and will compare it live with several other my 140mm fans - I also have ML, eloop, EK Vardars and 140MP

I hope that 1200 rpm will be enough for low rpm optimized rads

I also found this fresh review





where he got 1800 square somehow and they perform not the best, when it’s performance at 40db











Maybe that’s why 1800 square not available (some tech issues) and 1200 square much better?

Anyway let’s wait for delivery and see it personal)


----------



## D-EJ915

Those results are so close it could almost be margin of error.


----------



## rioja

D-EJ915 said:


> Those results are so close it could almost be margin of error.


Yes maybe, his way of testing may be arguable, maybe it‘s better to measure air flow in several inches behind a rad?
I also worried a bit with this data - noise at 300 rpm is not at ground level, can it be also due to a margin error? Or again 1200 version maybe be better than 1800


----------



## rioja

It all went too far)

Now I have five different 140 mm fans and need to decide which to get, not only by specs but also by common style/design matching to my Caselabs in gunmetal color (trying to avoid black ones)

Here is EK F1, eLoop, 140MP, ML140 and new Kaze Flex




























Reg Scythe, you can remove grey rubber dampers from it and do it even without unscrewing the fan itself from the case, very useful (see on the pic below)











In real, it is most dark out of all, significant darker than Corsair and EK, almost the same color as original Caselabs gunmetal










In persona, it makes an impression of very solid quality product, comparable to Corsair and eLoop

Next I decided to run final casting, I've got an anemometer (specs are even little better than thermalbech used in the reviews - minimal airflow 60FPM, accuracy 3%) and getting noisemeter this weekend, then I plan to measure air flow through my particular rad Nemesis GTX at the same several noise levels, hope this help to decide somehow)










Actually I almost sure already that I will through out EK and eLoop, and the fight will be between ML140, Kaze Flex and MP140
I will never choose between them


----------



## Melcar

rioja said:


> It all went too far)
> 
> Now I have five different 140 mm fans and need to decide which to get, not only by specs but also by common style/design matching to my Caselabs in gunmetal color (trying to avoid black ones)
> 
> Here is EK F1, eLoop, 140MP, ML140 and new Kaze Flex
> 
> View attachment 2469750
> 
> 
> View attachment 2469751
> 
> 
> View attachment 2469752
> 
> 
> Reg Scythe, you can remove grey rubber dampers from it and do it even without unscrewing the fan itself from the case, very useful (see on the pic below)
> 
> View attachment 2469753
> 
> 
> 
> In real, it is most dark out of all, significant darker than Corsair and EK, almost the same color as original Caselabs gunmetal
> 
> View attachment 2469754
> 
> 
> In persona, it makes an impression of very solid quality product, comparable to Corsair and eLoop
> 
> Next I decided to run final casting, I've got an anemometer (specs are even little better than thermalbech used in the reviews - minimal airflow 60FPM, accuracy 3%) and getting noisemeter this weekend, then I plan to measure air flow through my particular rad Nemesis GTX at the same several noise levels, hope this help to decide somehow)
> 
> View attachment 2469758
> 
> 
> Actually I almost sure already that I will through out EK and eLoop, and the fight will be between ML140, Kaze Flex and MP140
> I will never choose between them


You know what that means then? You need to make a new build around each fan now.
Look forward to your results. According to Thermalbench, the ML140 and PH-F140MP are very similar at the same rpm ranges (the ML140 is a tiny bit better in both sound pressure and airflow), so you may get similar results for both. If the Kaze Flex is indeed similar to the TY fans, then you should also be coming out with similar numbers to the other two.


----------



## dwolvin

Those Kaze Flex's look really nice- I like the large radius leading into the fan disk. Can't wait to see!


----------



## rioja

Melcar said:


> You know what that means then? You need to make a new build around each fan now.
> Look forward to your results. According to Thermalbench, the ML140 and PH-F140MP are very similar at the same rpm ranges (the ML140 is a tiny bit better in both sound pressure and airflow), so you may get similar results for both. If the Kaze Flex is indeed similar to the TY fans, then you should also be coming out with similar numbers to the other two.


Yep I could get several sets of 12 fans and swap it monthly)
When all water cooling installed, fans are easily replaceable except front rad, there I need to remove whole rad first due to such grill mounting in Caselabs case 

And at maximum rpm, no one could beat ML140 with its 2000 rpm and 3.0 mm H2O static pressure
And MLs don’t have rubber dumpers (EKs too), I wonder whether it affects sound results



dwolvin said:


> Those Kaze Flex's look really nice- I like the large radius leading into the fan disk. Can't wait to see!


I measured width of wings on the outer side and the biggest is MP140 with 5cm, ML and Kaze both have 4 cm (but ML has bigger center) and EK has 3.7 cm


----------



## dwolvin

Wings? You mean fan blade length?


----------



## rioja

Yes, blades is the proper word for it, I meant blade width near the frame, this











Meanwhile another equipment arrived










I'm going to test them directly in the case just like in real application, only need to think how to secure anemometer sensor inside the case in around 6" behind the rad so that it can survive air flow from ML140 2000 rpm

Those fan on the CPU cooler I will unplug, I think 6850k can go by passive cooling while idle, and fan on the PSU 1600W I hardly to spin at all


----------



## dwolvin

Ah- gotcha! I was thinking length, not width. Glad to be on the same page!


----------



## Kana Chan

Found these on a non English site


----------



## rioja

There are 2 questions regarding the testing methodology by “Thermalbench standards” (ie 6 ft to noise meter and 6 ft to anemometer)

1) Initially I assembled such setup with my custom 3d mount based on UNI mounts so that I can move anemometer in 3 dimensions and place it exactly 6ft after the center of fan (passing the rad)










In general it works ok but this way I can measure only quite a strong air flow when fan at 800 rpm or higher. I can’t measure lower airflow below 800 rpm.
At 100% results quite matched the Thermalbench, for example, MP140 at 100% gives me 1.3 m/s (255 FPM) while Thermalbench measured 270 FPM









Did he use air duct or it was in open air?

2) When measuring a noise, should I do it on open air or on the radiator? This is because when a fan makes some hum on open air at certain rpm it can be heard but then being placed to a radiator air noise through the radiator almost overlap initial hum

Meanwhile my army of fans grown up and now I guess I have all the best fans on the Earth deserving consideration as a perfect radiator fan)










Guess which is the quietest fan at its max rpm?)


----------



## Melcar

rioja said:


> There are 2 questions regarding the testing methodology by “Thermalbench standards” (ie 6 ft to noise meter and 6 ft to anemometer)
> 
> 1) Initially I assembled such setup with my custom 3d mount based on UNI mounts so that I can move anemometer in 3 dimensions and place it exactly 6ft after the center of fan (passing the rad)
> 
> View attachment 2472422
> 
> 
> In general it works ok but this way I can measure only quite a strong air flow when fan at 800 rpm or higher. I can’t measure lower airflow below 800 rpm.
> At 100% results quite matched the Thermalbench, for example, MP140 at 100% gives me 1.3 m/s (255 FPM) while Thermalbench measured 270 FPM
> 
> View attachment 2472423
> 
> Did he use air duct or it was in open air?
> 
> 2) When measuring a noise, should I do it on open air or on the radiator? This is because when a fan makes some hum on open air at certain rpm it can be heard but then being placed to a radiator air noise through the radiator almost overlap initial hum
> 
> Meanwhile my army of fans grown up and now I guess I have all the best fans on the Earth deserving consideration as a perfect radiator fan)
> 
> View attachment 2472424
> 
> 
> Guess which is the quietest fan at its max rpm?)


I would guess between the BQ and Phanteks.


----------



## rioja

Melcar said:


> I would guess between the BQ and Phanteks.


NB-eLoop
(by first impression without noise meter yet)


----------



## doyll

rioja said:


> There are 2 questions regarding the testing methodology by “Thermalbench standards” (ie 6 ft to noise meter and 6 ft to anemometer)
> 
> 1) Initially I assembled such setup with my custom 3d mount based on UNI mounts so that I can move anemometer in 3 dimensions and place it exactly 6ft after the center of fan (passing the rad)
> 
> 
> 
> In general it works ok but this way I can measure only quite a strong air flow when fan at 800 rpm or higher. I can’t measure lower airflow below 800 rpm.
> At 100% results quite matched the Thermalbench, for example, MP140 at 100% gives me 1.3 m/s (255 FPM) while Thermalbench measured 270 FPM
> 
> 
> Did he use air duct or it was in open air?
> 
> 2) When measuring a noise, should I do it on open air or on the radiator? This is because when a fan makes some hum on open air at certain rpm it can be heard but then being placed to a radiator air noise through the radiator almost overlap initial hum


Thermalbench measured airflow at 6 inches not 6 feet.
*Fan testing*​_Testing methodology_​​_Testing was done with the fan mounted on a single Swiftech MCR120QP radiator, with the fan controlled using a dedicated fan controller (Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 XT) in PWM mode. The controller also enabled RPM readout. Linear airflow was measured using an Extech 45158 Thermo-Anemometer 6″ away from the fan such that it measured the airflow in feet per minute through the radiator. Fan noise was measured in an anechoic chamber of size 5′ x 8′ with ambient noise level ~19 dBA and a sound probe held 6″ away to measure the sound volume in dBA accordingly._​​


Thermalbench.com


----------



## rioja

doyll said:


> Thermalbench measured airflow at 6 inches not 6 feet.


Oops it was my wrong spelling) I meant 6 inches i.e. 15 cm
Don't you know whether he used an air duct or not?
Coz using such an open stand as mine I can measure air flow with a fan only above 900-1000 rpm

One more thing unclear is that his _Extech 45158 has lower threshold 216 fpm





45158: Mini Thermo-Anemometer with Humidity | Extech Instruments


45158: Waterproof pocket size with Air Velocity, Temperature, Relative Humidity, Dew Point, and Windchill. Experience the Extech Advantage




www.extech.com




_
But his charts always have values 50-200 fpm, how can it be?










Mine threshold is 60 fpm vs his 216 fpm and I still can't catch low flow


----------



## TeslaHUN

rioja said:


> Guess which is the quietest fan at its max rpm?)


Arctic or Scythe


----------



## doyll

Been a long time sense I talked to VSG about test, but as I remember he did not use a duct. As I remember fan was mounted as push into radiator and anemometer was 6" from that. 

What anemometer are you using?


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## rioja

doyll said:


> What anemometer are you using?


This





Digital Anemometer GM8901 - Shenzhen Jumaoyuan Science And Technology Co.,Ltd.


Digital Anemometer GM8901




www.benetechco.net





I also checked iand indeed it starts to show numbers from 59 fpm


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## doyll

rioja said:


> Thi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digital Anemometer GM8901 - Shenzhen Jumaoyuan Science And Technology Co.,Ltd.
> 
> 
> Digital Anemometer GM8901
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.benetechco.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also checked iand indeed it starts to show numbers from 59 fpm


Indeed, Digital Anemometer GM8901 specification says 60 fpm. Sadly your anemometer isn't sensitive enough for computer fans at the lower speeds most of us use them at. I got lucky many years ago find getting a hot-wire anemometer at bargain price.


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## rioja

It looks only air duct is the solution
I need smth like this assemble










Vent duct from 145mm to 80mm, stepped cone


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## doyll

I would make one using some stiff single ply cardboard rolled into a cone shape that could be cut to about the size of 140mm fan screw holes on one end and size of your anemometer fan on other. Than attach that to radiator fan mounting holes and to your anemometer. You can convert your fpm anemometer reading to CFM using
​_*CFM = FPM x Duct Cross Sectional Area* _​








Fans!!!! The most complete and comprehensive array of...


Ah- gotcha! I was thinking length, not width. Glad to be on the same page!




www.overclock.net


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## mav451

@Kana Chan - do you have a link to the review? A bit more curious about that design language being implemented in the 140mm size. 
Assuming Noctua keeps to their October roadmap (lol) - we see their 140mm update in Q4 2021 and wouldn't be surprised to see it delayed again.


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## rioja

doyll said:


> You can convert your fpm anemometer reading to CFM using


Yep will do it since I have a duct anyway
I'm glad I chose the proper size for 140 mm fans)





























It looks I need not a cone but just a tube like here








DarkSide Gentle Typhoon 1450 RPM Black Edition Fan Review


The Gentle Typhoon made a comeback recently under the DarkSide brand, and in an all-black color scheme too. It was the fan of choice for PC DIY enthusiasts only a few years ago, and in this review, we will see how it holds up against newer fans and features alike.




www.techpowerup.com


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## babyyoda

I need enlightenment reg something.

If I couldnt get _Noctua A14 PWM (Chromax and Nutella)/HF-14/Prolimatech Vortex_,
is Be Quiet SW3 High Performance a good substitute for 140mm Case Fans (intake)?

2nd ques, refer to quotes on thread Pure Wings 2 or Silent Wings 3?



TheBDK said:


> Pure Wings = Airflow.
> Silent Wings = Static Pressure.
> 
> Use static pressure fans for intake, airflow fans for exhaust.
> Why?
> Because intake fans has to suck air through dust filters and various of other things. Airflow fans just has to move air, and they work best if there's no restrictions to airflow.





ciarlatano said:


> I see....so Pure Wings have no static pressure, only airflow. And SW3s have only static pressure with no airflow.
> 
> Fans should be labeled as "static pressure" or "airflow" fans, and we should completely disregard P-Q Curves as being just some diversionary tactic to mask the real truth to the way fans operate?
> 
> Not to be the bearer of bad news.....but there is a lot more to the ways fans operate in a given environment than than full speed airflow or static pressure ratings.


If I were to install an exhaust, SW 3 is not ideal?! What other exhaust are good options apart from what I just mentioned - _Noctua A14 PWM (Chromax and Nutella)/HF-14/Prolimatech Vortex_ (no stock until after Chinese New Year a months away)


Case is Phanteks P500A non-RGB


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## ciarlatano

babyyoda said:


> I need enlightenment reg something.
> 
> If I couldnt get _Noctua A14 PWM (Chromax and Nutella)/HF-14/Prolimatech Vortex_,
> is Be Quiet SW3 High Performance a good substitute for 140mm Case Fans (intake)?
> 
> 2nd ques, refer to quotes on thread Pure Wings 2 or Silent Wings 3?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to install an exhaust, SW 3 is not ideal?! What other exhaust are good options apart from what I just mentioned - _Noctua A14 PWM (Chromax and Nutella)/HF-14/Prolimatech Vortex_ (no stock until after Chinese New Year a months away)
> 
> 
> Case is Phanteks P500A non-RGB


Yes, the SW3 would be an excellent alternative. The Phanteks F140MP would be a nice choice if you want to keep the cost down a bit.


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## 2600ryzen

babyyoda said:


> I need enlightenment reg something.
> 
> If I couldnt get _Noctua A14 PWM (Chromax and Nutella)/HF-14/Prolimatech Vortex_,
> is Be Quiet SW3 High Performance a good substitute for 140mm Case Fans (intake)?
> 
> 2nd ques, refer to quotes on thread Pure Wings 2 or Silent Wings 3?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to install an exhaust, SW 3 is not ideal?! What other exhaust are good options apart from what I just mentioned - _Noctua A14 PWM (Chromax and Nutella)/HF-14/Prolimatech Vortex_ (no stock until after Chinese New Year a months away)
> 
> 
> Case is Phanteks P500A non-RGB


Sw3 is fine for case fans/cpu cooler and exhaust, they have the same airflow as the pure wings 2 with much higher static pressure. I prefer a square shaped fan for intake fans to make it easier to seal off the inside of the case from the outside, I would use a circular holed gasket with the sw3 if I were to use them for intake fans.


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## Kana Chan

mav451 said:


> @Kana Chan - do you have a link to the review? A bit more curious about that design language being implemented in the 140mm size.
> Assuming Noctua keeps to their October roadmap (lol) - we see their 140mm update in Q4 2021 and wouldn't be surprised to see it delayed again.











「Thermaltake TOUGHFAN 14」をレビュー。最強140mmファンの登場か！？ : 自作とゲームと趣味の日々


従来製品よりも高い風量・静圧と静音性を実現した高性能ファン「Thermaltake TOUGHFAN 14」をレビュー。冷却性能や静音性をNF-A14 industrialPPCやTOUGHFAN 12と徹底比較




jisakuhibi.jp


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## rioja

I have definitely my engineer skills improved)










Phanteks F140MP at 1600 rpm at entrance of the tube, tube is 1 m length 150 mm diameter, airflow - 395 fpm (actually fluctuating from 377 to 395, 385 average)
Calculated CFM at 385 fpm 150 mm is 73 CFM
Phanteks officially claims 69 CFM
At least this is close)

Now I feel the lack of wire air straighteners as Corsair have in their mini wind tunnel


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## Rainmaker91

Nice to see some activity in this thread again. Was almost dead for a while there.


----------



## Dogzilla07

@Kana Chan

Thx for the info, they even have SF120M review on that Japanese site. It looks the Thermaltake ToughFan is a pretty good fan, though it does seems the 140mm version was just superficially scaled up from the 120mm version without a proper redesign as I feared (There's a reason Phanteks and Noctua variants are perpetually delayed, they're doing proper R&D) hence no significant performance-noise difference, but we still need a flawless methodology test at some point.


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## rioja

2600ryzen said:


> Sw3 is fine for case fans/cpu cooler and exhaust, they have the same airflow as the pure wings 2 with much higher static pressure.


SW3 HS PWM can have clicking noise from the motor when run at low rpm 550
Mine suffers from it


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## doyll

rioja said:


> SW3 HS PWM can have clicking noise from the motor when run at low rpm 550
> Mine suffers from it


Would be interesting to find out what is causing that tick. Only a few users have the problem. My guess is it's PWM control related, but like I said, that's a guess.


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## rioja

doyll said:


> Would be interesting to find out what is causing that tick. Only a few users have the problem. My guess is it's PWM control related, but like I said, that's a guess.


Yes I'm almost sure that under voltage regulation this issue won't arise
Will check it later
Probably another PWM controller may fix it, mine is Nuvoton chip based motherboard pwm connection
Fan is manufactured in Sep'2020 if I read back label correctly

Here is exact description what I have


In typical German fashion, over engineered. Silent but with a caveat!!


I also have highest clicking at 550 rpm, higher or lower it's reducing

Btw grey ML140 from twin pack also has similar clicking at 600 rpm


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## Captain Mayhem

Rainmaker91 said:


> Nice to see some activity in this thread again. Was almost dead for a while there.


Indeed. It's nice to see what's been around and what's new.


----------



## D-EJ915

doyll said:


> Would be interesting to find out what is causing that tick. Only a few users have the problem. My guess is it's PWM control related, but like I said, that's a guess.


Both or one of my 3-pin silent wings 3 140 HS fans have some motor noise but I never tried to figure out what rpm range or whatever causes it, I forgot about it but heard it while I was testing the two of them on my rad the other day with my 140MP and P14s.


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## rioja

Jus imagine 12 such fans all rattling at 550 rpm, this group of cicadas may drive crazy

@doyll 
I met your name in this review)


Thermalbench.com


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## doyll

rioja said:


> Jus imagine 12 such fans all rattling at 550 rpm, this group of cicadas may drive crazy
> 
> @doyll
> I met your name in this review)
> 
> 
> Thermalbench.com


I remember that time. For years before that I was talking with Thermalright trying to get the TY square fan into production. Back then VSG and I talked often about fans and testing, but haven't talked to him in years now.


----------



## rioja

doyll said:


> For years before that I was talking with Thermalright trying


I like TY147A, it’s one of the best so I’m gathering more info

Don‘t you know why my fan has black/white label on the hub? While all others I see in internet have green/black/white.










is it special edition or they changed the design or probably it’s a fake?

Manufactured in Nov’19, has the hologram mark on the back side
Packaging is also looks proper and maden well










I would prefer green one tbh


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## doyll

Sorry, don't know. My guess is some sort of production thing. Thermalright gets fans from at last 2 different sources, maybe they don't all use same labels. When I was testing & reviewing Thermalright I got many with same front as yours. If you look on their website at coolers you can see them in front view of coolers.


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## 2600ryzen

rioja said:


> SW3 HS PWM can have clicking noise from the motor when run at low rpm 550
> Mine suffers from it


Ok I don't have that on my sw3 120mm hs but mine is really audible when you turn it on from 0rpm(it tries to spin backwards) and at all pwm levels the rpm jumps around a lot. My 140mm sw3 were much more audible at low rpms than my current p14 intake fans but I'm using the 2 x 140mm sw3 on my cpu heatsink now and I can't hear them at all.


----------



## rioja

2600ryzen said:


> My 140mm sw3 were much more audible at low rpms than my current p14 intake fans but I'm using the 2 x 140mm sw3 on my cpu heatsink now and I can't hear them at all.


Would be very interesting if you turned off all other fans and check single alone SW3 140 HS at 550 rpm in pwm mode, does it click or dead silent?


----------



## 2600ryzen

It always clicks but only if you put your ear up near it(maybe at really low rpm it doesn't like 180rpm?), more than the p14 anyway. I could only hear it though when I had them as front intake fans as cpu fans any noise they make doesn't escape the case. When I was using my pc on an open bench I could hear them at 550rpm but below about 400rpmish I couldn't.


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## upgraditus

No clicking from my 140mm sw3 hs, going from minimum rpm (@20% pwm) to max at 2% increments.


----------



## doyll

Is this clicking a very low volume noise that is only audible if her is 2 feet / 0.4m from fan?


----------



## rioja

Initially I heard it in about 1.5-2 ft distance in open stand but then knowping exactly what to hear, in very quiet room you may hear it from 3 ft, maybe even from 5 ft


----------



## 2600ryzen

doyll said:


> Is this clicking a very low volume noise that is only audible if her is 2 feet / 0.4m from fan?


For me it is.


----------



## hardwarelimits

What would be a good 140mm fan for exaust ? (there's a grill and I'm using a Noctua NH-D15S)


----------



## Melcar

hardwarelimits said:


> What would be a good 140mm fan for exaust ? (there's a grill and I'm using a Noctua NH-D15S)


You probably don't need one. If your case has a large vented panel at the rear (like most modern cases) you just need to make sure you have strong enough front intake fans. But if you really want one, get something that has similar or better specs than the CPU fan and that they both run at similar speeds.


----------



## thekingbeyond

hardwarelimits said:


> What would be a good 140mm fan for exaust ? (there's a grill and I'm using a Noctua NH-D15S)



Noctua NF-A14 PWM is a good match for the D15s, I run 3 upfront and another as an exhaust with my beige/ brown D15, all running about 400 rpm at idle, I have the chromax version also on another rig and run 2 front and 1 exhaust.
However, they are expensive, if I was looking for a good but cheaper alternative it would be the ARCTIC P14 PWM PST, just bought five before xmas and can't fault them at the price.


----------



## doyll

hardwarelimits said:


> What would be a good 140mm fan for exaust ? (there's a grill and I'm using a Noctua NH-D15S)


What Melcar said.  

I build several computers a montht and can't remember last one that had an exhaust fan. Case temp is 0-2c different with vs without exhaust fans, but to have good case airflow requries high presure rated fans. That is 1.3+mmH2O @ 1300rpm, more pressure is more better .. and pressure rating drops dramatically as fan speed drop. For example NF-A15 is rated 1.51mmH2O @ 1200rpm, but only 0.89mm @ 900rpm. A fan's ability to overcome the resistance of grill, filter, HDD cages, etc is totally dependent of pressure rating of fan .. airflow rating means little to nothing.


----------



## hardwarelimits

I have those Artics p12 at front ramping to 1200-1300 depending on cpu temp , but max is 1300. Ill just get a Artic p14 and call it a day, the one I have is what came on case and moves nothing , I feel it obstructs air lol


----------



## Rainmaker91

So... I'm looking into making a small form factor storage server with 8 3.5" drives in it. The case will be a scratch build with some parts from other cases that are left over (stuff like hard-drive cages). Air flow wise it will be fairly traditional with 2 intake fans and 1 exhaust. Trouble is, I want to do something with a static and low speed on the fans. So I'm thinking something voltage regulated, but with ok static pressure is the way to go. I have yet to decide on 140mm or 120mm fans though, but I'll find out soon enough when I actually start putting it together. 

So what would be a recomended fan for sub 1000rpm 3pin fans? Both 140mm and 120mm alternatives work I guess since I haven't decided on the hard measurements yet. I know I can look at some of the initial charts that were put up at the start of the thread, but surely things have changed a bit over the years.


----------



## shalafi

I've just noticed Phanteks list a PH-F140MP *v2* on their site, with a 2000RPM max (as opposed to the 1600RPM of the v1). Does anyone have any experience with them already?

I've recently bought a 2-pack of the ML140, but there seems to be a significant motor/clicky noise compared to the rest of my fans (which are 2 PH-F140MP v1s and 3 of the original white-bladed Phanteks case fans, the 1200RPM ones). At idle, the only thing I can hear from the case is the Corsairs clicking away. All the fans are connected to a Corsair Link Commander Pro.


----------



## dwolvin

I've never seen those, but I like the daisy chain cables.


----------



## shalafi

It looks like they are quite recent and I can't get a hold of them anywhere. Overclockers.co.uk have lots in stock, but they currently don't ship to the EU mainland (Slovakia), neither will amazon.com or newegg. Dang, I'd really like to get my hands on those :/


----------

