# [WCC] AMD Hawaii R9-290X GPU Benchmark Results Exposed–Fastest GPU On the Planet



## Milestailsprowe

The 25th should be interesting


----------



## geoxile

Grain of salt

Also, someone should tell the author he mixed up the names on his little chart there. The 290x and the 780 should be switched


----------



## Hms1193

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Grain of salt
> 
> Also, someone should tell the author he mixed up the names on his little chart their. The 290x and the 780 should be switched


Fixed...


----------



## SniperOct

sorcery if true...still skeptical. But if so, what kind of voodoo did AMD do? They should buy the rights for the "voodoo" name from 3dfx and use it for this card much like Nidia used the Titan name.


----------



## Master__Shake

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fudteam.tistory.com%2F539&act=url

more


----------



## akbisw

I hope my eyes are still alright. IS THAT A LOWER TDP ON AMD CARD!!!

....meanwhile universe xplodes


----------



## Hydroplane

If it really beats the titan by that much, I'm impressed.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Grain of salt


_Shaker_ of salt. I'm extremely skeptical that this gets equal to or greater than Titan performance for $400 less. But with all of these leaks coming out, and most importantly, being consistent, it points to a $600 Titan killer being confirmed on Wednesday.


----------



## zealord

If only AMD would have brought it a few months earlier (If one is to believe these benchmarks) then we would have had much better prices across the board , while AMD and Nvidia are contesting for certain price points. But as it seems right now Nvidia and AMD are taking turns who releases the "must buy" graphics card so people are chaning their GPUs more often than neccessary. (Don't wanna imply anything wit this)


----------



## Darius Silver

Cautiously optimistic now... But 512bit card doesn't sound cheap, so a little nervous at what they are going to price them at. Official information can't come soon enough.


----------



## SoloCamo

If these are to be believed I'm selling the 7970GE... only if it's a at 780 or lower pricing.


----------



## kot0005

AUDI R9 290x @ 160mph? for $599 ? I will grab one thanks is it convertible ?


----------



## Juub

Rumors from Asian sites are reliable now? Since when?


----------



## Hydroplane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kot0005*
> 
> AUDI R9 290x @ 160mph? for $599 ? I will grab one thanks is it convertible ?


Lol I think the R9 290X name is terrible too. It doesn't mean anything.

If this really does beat a titan, I wouldn't be surprised (though I would be disappointed) to see it cost as much as one.


----------



## Nexo

Fastest GPU?


----------



## wstanci3

AMD releasing a product that performs above a $1000 gpu at a price rumored to be under $600?
Am I hoping this is true? *Hell yes*
Am I hopeful? *Hell no*


----------



## Ha-Nocri

1020MHz. To what speed does 780 boost? Also that memory could be OC'ed like mad probably being so lowly(wonder if it would help the performance tho)...


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

We shall see. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if true. After all, Titan has been out for 7 months now. I would hope that the next generation of the AMD video card could beat a card that has been out for 7 months. That really isn't all that impressive a beating anyway (since the Titan still beats the 290X in several categories).


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> AMD releasing a product that performs above a $1000 gpu at a price rumored to be under $600?
> Am I hoping this is true? *Hell yes*
> Am I hopeful? *Hell no*


Titan was released 7 months ago, 8 months it be when the R9 is available. It's not that unlikely


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Titan was released 7 months ago, 8 months it be when the R9 is available. It's not that unlikely


I don't doubt the AMD could deliver the performance of a Titan or better. I doubt the (rumored) price tag.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> We shall see. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if true. After all, Titan has been out for 7 months now. I would hope that the next generation of the AMD video card could beat a card that has been out for 7 months. That really isn't all that impressive a beating anyway (since the Titan still beats the 290X in several categories).


Titan is a freaking 1k$ GPU. It shouldn't even be considered nor compared to this.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akbisw*
> 
> I hope my eyes are still alright. IS THAT A LOWER TDP ON AMD CARD!!!
> 
> ....meanwhile universe xplodes


What is so strange about that now it is just so that Titan would do better at gaming if it was built as GK104 rather than compute based GK110.
AMD normaly gains compute at the cost of power and it will be the same this time around just they might be well matched this time.

All rumours though.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Titan is a freaking 1k$ GPU. It shouldn't even be considered nor compared to this.


A Corvette is often compared to a Ferrari if they perform similarly, regardless of price.


----------



## Kuivamaa

AvP traditionally favors AMD cards and C3 was pretty much a wash (it only became GE title when it was pretty much finished) so the BF3 difference is the impressive thing here. We will know very soon whether this is true or not.


----------



## Yvese

Dear god I hope this is true.

It's not that hard to believe since the benchmarks pretty much have the 290x in-between the 780 and Titan, with the 290x beating the Titan in a few games. $600 is also not that hard to believe. The 780 isn't that much slower than Titan yet it's priced $350 less.

What I'm really interested in is seeing how Nvidia responds in regards to pricing. If these benchmarks are legit ( And we'll know in a few days ), they will have to lower both the 780 and Titan. I'm going with $549 780, $699 Titan.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> A Corvette is often compared to a Ferrari if they perform similarly, regardless of price.


I hope 290x performs worse than the Titan. If it's better it will cost 1k+ thanks to NV's pricing. I don't even think AMD was trying to beat it. Story of the Titan ends there for me. Don't understand ppl's obsession with it.


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Titan is a freaking 1k$ GPU. It shouldn't even be considered nor compared to this.


780 is 350$ cheaper and only 10% slower. The most impressive thing about the Titan is its price tag, not its performance. Still a hunk of garbage to me.


----------



## fleetfeather

people are forgetting 2 things:

- NV set a $1000 price tag because "they could". AMD can't get away with that, because competition, brand perception etc.

- AMD needs to gain more marketshare. The only way they will pull the high-end enthusiast market back is if they give 780/titan owners a reason to drop more cash.

Edit: a third thing:

- There has been precendent for this type of aggressive cost/performance play before (The ~$200 8800GT is pretty much why Nvidia diehards exist today







)


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> I hope 290x performs worse than the Titan. If it's better it will cost 1k+ thanks to NV's pricing. I don't even think AMD was trying to beat it. Story of the Titan ends there for me. Don't understand ppl's obsession with it.


Why do you think AMD has to price higher than Titan if it beats it? The 680 beat the 7970 at launch yet was priced lower.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> What I'm really interested in is seeing how Nvidia responds in regards to pricing. If these benchmarks are legit ( And we'll know in a few days ), they will have to lower both the 780 and Titan. I'm going with $549 780, $699 Titan.


I don't think so. Nvidia has a loyal fanbase that is willing to pay more money for less performance,if said performance comes in a radeon package. They simply do not consider ATi/AMD cards.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Why do you think AMD has to price higher than Titan if it beats it? The 680 beat the 7970 at launch yet was priced lower.


680 didn't beat it. They were like equal, depending on games. Why did AMD price 7970 above 580? Simply, b/c it performed better


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kuivamaa*
> 
> I don't think so. Nvidia has a loyal fanbase that is willing to pay more money for less performance,if said performance comes in a radeon package. They simply do not consider ATi/AMD cards.


Doesn't matter if they have a loyal fanbase. Nvidia has reacted to AMD nearly every gen.

When the 4870 was revealed, Nvidia pretty much instantly lowered the price of the GTX 280 by $249 ( $649 to $499 ). The same could happen here.

Also, Nvidia priced the 680 lower than the 7970. You'd think they'd price it higher since the 680 was faster than the 7970 at launch.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> I don't doubt the AMD could deliver the performance of a Titan or better. I doubt the (rumored) price tag.


This is my thought. If they beat the Titan on performance(which wouldn't surprise me at all), I'd be shocked if it cost less than $800. I'm expecting a card that generally edges out the 780 at stock, has more room to OC, and comes in at around $600, just because I don't know if it would be worth it for AMD to go big like Nvidia did.

Either way, I'm hoping for some good competition. I'm planning for a GPU upgrade soon and want cheaper prices, whichever side comes out on top.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> 680 didn't beat it. They were like equal, depending on games. Why did AMD price 7970 above 580? Simply, b/c it performed better


The 680 was faster. That's why AMD reduced the 7970 price to $479 in response.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> The 680 was faster. That's why AMD reduced the 7970 price to $479 in response.


680 also has less VRAM, is worse in computing and is memory-bus bottle-necked at higher resolutions.


----------



## Stay Puft

I like it but here's the problem. They dont state the clock speeds. What if the 290X is at 1300 core and titan at stock clocks?

if this is true there is NO WAY IN HELL it'll be 500 dollars. Try 799.99


----------



## Yeroon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fudteam.tistory.com%2F539&act=url
> 
> more


So amused by the way they only test "4" cards.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> The 680 was faster. That's why AMD reduced the 7970 price to $479 in response.


the 680 was marginally faster at best. a slight clock increase on the 7970 (ghz edition was what 125 mhz faster) made them about even.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I like it but here's the problem. They dont state the clock speeds. What if the 290X is at 1300 core and titan at stock clocks?
> 
> if this is true there is NO WAY IN HELL it'll be 500 dollars. Try 799.99


1020MHz. What's 780's boost speed?


----------



## Yeroon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I like it but here's the problem. They dont state the clock speeds. What if the 290X is at 1300 core and titan at stock clocks?


The 4 card test mentions 1020/1250 for the "blank" gpu. You can probably figure out how well the GK110 cards are clocked based on relative performance to the 7970 and 770.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> people are forgetting 2 things:
> 
> - NV set a $1000 price tag because "they could". AMD can't get away with that, because competition, brand perception etc.
> 
> - AMD needs to gain more marketshare. The only way they will pull the high-end enthusiast market back is if they give 780/titan owners a reason to drop more cash.
> 
> Edit: a third thing:
> 
> - There has been precendent for this type of aggressive cost/performance play before (The ~$200 8800GT is pretty much why Nvidia diehards exist today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


+1

exactly what I said b4 in other thread, it beat TITAN by a little. It doesnt make any sense not to beat TITAN because it is just 5% higher than 780.(they are targeting this chip, why not top the TITAN as well) + Maxwell is also around the corner. My guest it will price @ $649 taking out 780 while making TITAN overpriced.

So if Hawaii doesnt beat TITAN as most say here, how it could hold its ground against Maxwell? This chip is design to beat TITAN but hold itself competitive against Maxwell that is coming soon. So it has to beat TITAN or it will become an epic fail like AMD bulldozer. People seems to forgot 8800GTX basically blows everything when it came out.


----------



## Stay Puft

Thank you guys. Wow if this is indeed at 599.99 i'm so in for 2. Time for a price cut Nvidia?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I like it but here's the problem. They dont state the clock speeds. What if the 290X is at 1300 core and titan at stock clocks?
> 
> if this is true there is NO WAY IN HELL it'll be 500 dollars. Try 799.99


well then they did so with little voltage looking at the power numbers I would say 1GHz ref clock.


----------



## Otterclock

Keep in mind this is limited to the planet.


----------



## thestache

That made it a little more interesting. They could have a winner...


----------



## Nirvanaosc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> I hope 290x performs worse than the Titan. If it's better it will cost 1k+ thanks to NV's pricing. I don't even think AMD was trying to beat it. Story of the Titan ends there for me. Don't understand ppl's obsession with it.


Just because of the name, it's called marketing, and it seems that works pretty well.
Nor, to be honest, do I understand the people that thinks that a new graphic card 25% faster with a fancy name is going to remain unbroken for the next two years.


----------



## elreyhorus

Wait a second...

someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the new GPU was aiming for the 780 not the Titan.

If I remember correctly, there was a recent interview in Forbes where an AMD employee implied that AMD wasn't targeting the 'ultra-enthusiast' 1000 USD market (at least not with single GPU solutions).


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elreyhorus*
> 
> Wait a second...
> 
> someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the new GPU was aiming for the 780 not the Titan.
> 
> If I remember correctly, there was a recent interview in Forbes where an AMD employee implied that AMD wasn't targeting the 'ultra-enthusiast' 1000 USD market (at least not with single GPU solutions).


This. I will be happy if 290x is within 5% of 780 clock-for-clock

512-bit bus is unnecessary, but maybe AMD is preparing for 20nm transition(whitch is less then a year away) and to beat NV with it.


----------



## Kuivamaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Doesn't matter if they have a loyal fanbase. Nvidia has reacted to AMD nearly every gen.
> 
> When the 4870 was revealed, Nvidia pretty much instantly lowered the price of the GTX 280 by $249 ( $649 to $499 ). The same could happen here.
> 
> Also, Nvidia priced the 680 lower than the 7970. You'd think they'd price it higher since the 680 was faster than the 7970 at launch.


With 4000 series they had to lower prices since iirc even 260 was more expensive than the 4870 and it was trailing alot in performance. 680 came after the vanilla 7970 and for the most part of its life it remained more expensive than the faster 7970GE. If 290X sits inbetween 780 and Titan, I seriously doubt nvidia is gonna lower their prices much, perhaps cut 50 at most. If it trades blows or even beats a Titan, well,it will get interesting...


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elreyhorus*
> 
> Wait a second...
> 
> someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the new GPU was aiming for the 780 not the Titan.
> 
> If I remember correctly, there was a recent interview in Forbes where an AMD employee implied that AMD wasn't targeting the 'ultra-enthusiast' 1000 USD market (at least not with single GPU solutions).


He said they weren't targeting the ultra-enthusiast $1000 price point, not the ultra-enthusiast performance








Quote:


> I can't reveal a pricepoint but we're looking at more traditional enthusiast GPU pricepoints. We're not targeting a $999 single GPU solution like our competition because we believe not a lot of people have that $999.


----------



## szeged

Hoping this is true, if it is then color me impressed.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> He said they weren't targeting the ultra-enthusiast $1000 price point, not the ultra-enthusiast performance


was just about to say this!


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> He said they weren't targeting the ultra-enthusiast $1000 price point, not the ultra-enthusiast performance


Good catch! Didn't realize that.


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> 1020MHz. What's 780's boost speed?


varies from 980Mhz / 1019Mhz max


----------



## NateST

I don't see how the performance numbers make sense, but if it turns out to be this good of a card I already have buyers for my 780s lined up. With BF4 being gaming evolved it and that being one of the games I'll be playing a lot in the future is more incentive. Presuming the price is around $650 or so I'll be grabbing two.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *elreyhorus*
> 
> Wait a second...
> 
> someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the new GPU was aiming for the 780 not the Titan.
> 
> If I remember correctly, there was a recent interview in Forbes where an AMD employee implied that AMD wasn't targeting the 'ultra-enthusiast' 1000 USD market (at least not with single GPU solutions).


Titan is just little faster than 780, it is rather easy to top that speed.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> 780 is 350$ cheaper and only 10% slower. The most impressive thing about the Titan is its price tag, not its performance. Still a hunk of garbage to me.


I'd like to know what kind of GPU you have, if Titan is "a hunk of garbage"? Titan is so expensive because AMD doesn't have anything like it on the market *yet*, Nvidia can slash price to half and still have good profits margins.


----------



## Stay Puft

Lets say these numbers will be confirmed by every review site. Does that mean Nvidia will drop the Titan's and 780's price to 499 and 599 respectively?

Could you imagine how many pissed off titan owners there would be if it was 599.99


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> He said they weren't targeting the ultra-enthusiast $1000 price point, not the ultra-enthusiast performance


Good.

It's time for AMD to do what NVIDIA did to AMD when the 680 and 670 was first released.

Someone has to keep NVIDIA honest.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Lets say these numbers will be mirrored by every review site. Does that mean Nvidia will drop the Titan's and 780's price to 499 and 599 respectively?


i'd buy the titan then









but no i don't see nvidia doing that, they'll probably just speed up the release of maxwell and eol gk110


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NABBO*
> 
> varies from 980Mhz / 1019Mhz max


So they are almost clock-for-clock if this review is not fake. Not bad then..


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I'd like to know what kind of GPU you have, if Titan is "a hunk of garbage"? Titan is so expensive because AMD doesn't have anything like it on the market *yet*, Nvidia can slash price to half and still have good profits margins.


Proof of profit margin please. I really don't know, but seeing how it is just the fail professional card repackaged into a top tier consumer card, I doubt there is a lot of room for profit.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

This is definitely interesting but of course we have to wait for official numbers before getting too excited. Even if true, I won't be switching back to AMD simply because I prefer Nvidia's CP, drivers, and how everything generally just "works". When I had 7970's they were the fastest cards of the time but I had so many issues and had to do so many weird hacks and mods just to get them working half the time (this was all prior to the 13.xx series of drivers which magically fixed most everything)....


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Lets say these numbers will be confirmed by every review site. Does that mean Nvidia will drop the Titan's and 780's price to 499 and 599 respectively?
> 
> Could you imagine how many pissed off titan owners there would be if it was 599.99


or may be they will drop the TITAN totally and re-release a GTX790 2688core @ 980MHz @3GB to retaliate







or just release a full GK110.(unlikely)


----------



## Yeroon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Thank you guys. Wow if this is indeed at 599.99 i'm so in for 2. Time for a price cut Nvidia?


So did not expect this. If i'd have been drinking something it literally would've been on my keyboard/monitor.


----------



## SniperOct

Some people here act as if they had stocks, were Nvidia lawyers, reps or even employers. Come on now, this is good news for enthusiast. Why do you have to make preemptive excuses for this? This is disturbing to see. this is good for you no matter how you see it. Nvidia will be pressured to reduce prices. They will be motivated to advance their tech, etc. Listen, this is available for you to buy. You can do it. You have free will. You can click away and buy one and the world won't end. If not, your current GPU won't get worse. You don't have to feel bad. Be on the side of the consumer. Get the same attitude console users had for a change. They were on the side of the consumer for a brief period and look how they brought Sony and Microsoft to their knees. Rejoice and stop this madness already.


----------



## Nirvanaosc

If this ends up being true, wouldn't surprise me nVidia releasing the rumored Titan Ultra, 5-10% faster than Titan to hold AMD RX-200 series until Maxwell.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I'm just looking forward to some new blood competition over in the benching section! It'll be nice to have a challenge from the red team again!


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Lets say these numbers will be confirmed by every review site. Does that mean Nvidia will drop the Titan's and 780's price to 499 and 599 respectively?


Very sceptical atm. 7990 which is faster than the 780 priced at as low as $649.99 but there is still no price drop for 780. The same thing goes to the 600 series. For example, the 760 is faster than the 660ti but the price of 660ti is still $50 more than the 760.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nirvanaosc*
> 
> If this ends up being true, wouldn't surprise me nVidia releasing the rumored Titan Ultra, 5-10% faster than Titan to hold AMD RX-200 series until Maxwell.


And costs 1.5k


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> or may be they will drop the TITAN totally and re-release a GTX790 2688core @ 980MHz @3GB to retaliate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or just release a full GK110.(unlikely)


maybe a GTX 785 3GB, 2880sp, 1050 / 1100MHz max boost


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Very sceptical atm. 7990 which is faster than the 780 priced at as low as $649.99 but there is still no price drop for 780. The same thing goes to the 600 series. For example, the 760 is faster than the 660ti but the price of 660ti is still $50 more than the 760.


Here in the states the 660 Ti is a good 20 dollars cheaper then the 760.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NABBO*
> 
> maybe a GTX 785 3GB, 2880sp, 1050 / 1100MHz max boost


I wish we had an idea how much each Nvidia pays for each GK110 chip


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I wouldn't rule it out. Nvidia left some reserve in the tank possibly just for a situation like this. I really do believe that the negative PR campaign they are running against AMD right now is borne from the fact that they are nervous about Hawaii...


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Very sceptical atm. 7990 which is faster than the 780 priced at as low as $649.99 but there is still no price drop for 780. The same thing goes to the 600 series. For example, the 760 is faster than the 660ti but the price of 660ti is still $50 more than the 760.


580s were still selling for a ridiculous price when the 7970 was released and was destroying it in every benchmark.

Translation : Nvidia lowers prices for NO ONE. Not even their own products.


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Proof of profit margin please. I really don't know, but seeing how it is just the fail professional card repackaged into a top tier consumer card, I doubt there is a lot of room for profit.


No one expect except NVIDIA internal employees would know what sort of profit margins exist for the TItan.

HOWEVER, given how NVIDIA sells full GK110 as Tesla cards for thousands of USD, there is plenty of profit margin to be had. Even after factoring in die yields, extra driver support costs, extra customer support costs (defective Tesla units are replaced the next business day for major HPC customers), etc profits from the Tesla line could probably subsidize most of the cost of Titan and there would still be profit left over for NVIDIA.

If NVIDIA scrapped all the defective GK110 (instead of incorporating it into the Titan), zero profit margin. The Titan is all upside for NVIDIA regardless of whatever profit margin exists for the Titan.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> 580s were still selling for a ridiculous price when the 7970 was released and was destroying it in every benchmark.
> 
> *Translation : Nvidia lowers prices for NO ONE. Not even their own products*.


QFT


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> _Shaker_ of salt. I'm extremely skeptical that this gets equal to or greater than Titan performance for $400 less. But with all of these leaks coming out, and most importantly, being consistent, it points to a $600 Titan killer being confirmed on Wednesday.


Why, the 4870 was the same way, in fact Nvidia had to _slash_ prices two weeks after that card launched.

I can't wait.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperOct*
> 
> Some people here act as if they had stocks, were Nvidia lawyers, reps or even employers. Come on now, this is good news for enthusiast. Why do you have to make preemptive excuses for this? This is disturbing to see. this is good for you no matter how you see it. Nvidia will be pressured to reduce prices. They will be motivated to advance their tech, etc. Listen, this is available for you to buy. You can do it. You have free will. You can click away and buy one and the world won't end. If not, your current GPU won't get worse. You don't have to feel bad. Be on the side of the consumer. Get the same attitude console users had for a change. They were on the side of the consumer for a brief period and look how they brought Sony and Microsoft to their knees. Rejoice and stop this madness already.


This kind of behavior is rampant online in anything tech. PS4 versus Xbone, AMD versus Nvidia versus Intel, some people treat this stuff like a religion. It is the most disheartening part of belonging to an otherwise great forum like this.


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Proof of profit margin please. I really don't know, but seeing how it is just the fail professional card repackaged into a top tier consumer card, I doubt there is a lot of room for profit.


Obviously I'm not industry insider so no solid proof for you









Nvidia's professional cards are very expensive because of the drivers and support, not because they are so horribly expensive to make. Consumer GK110 cards are made from failed dies aren't they? Of course big die like Titan's is more expensive to manufacture than GTX 680 for example but I believe Nvidia would still make profit at much lower price.


----------



## Bartouille

BIG RESPECT FOR THE GUYS OVER AT AMD I KNEW THEY COULD DO IT


----------



## MattGordon

Really hoping the Hawaii line-up is cheaper and better performance. At least than maybe the 760s will drop in price and I can SLI







.

Also hoping the AMD stock my father owns keeps rising!


----------



## asxx

well done Amd!


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> So they are almost clock-for-clock if this review is not fake. Not bad then..


How does a 7970 compare to a Titan clock for clock right now? If this card is 20% smaller than a Titan and up to 10% faster (based on those benches), then they've made some pretty good efficiency gains.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> If these numbers are right then amd just sunk nvidia's battleship especially if the 599 price is accurate. To put it frankly... You're screwed Nvidia.


Depends on what kind of margins Nvidia has on the 780. They might be able to price it at $500 and still turn a nice profit for all we know.


----------



## xoleras

I hope these benchmarks are true, competition is a great thing regardless of what brand you prefer. That said, it's still too early to declare victory. While this poster is reputable at chiphell, let's wait for more benchmarks.

Again, I hope they're true. If they are true, hats off to AMD. However again - It's still too early though, need more data.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> 580s were still selling for a ridiculous price when the 7970 was released and was destroying it in every benchmark.
> 
> Translation : Nvidia lowers prices for NO ONE. Not even their own products.


I keep saying companies price their products based on profitability but no one seems to be listening :\

If OCN were to be believed companies only set prices to 1-up their "competition", income be damned.


----------



## xoleras

It is not true that nvidia never lowers prices. They did in fact lower the prices of their GTX 200 series pretty drastically in response to AMD's aggressive pricing at the time. They also lowered prices in response to several ATI generation cards prior to that - again, it isn't true that nvidia will never lower prices. It has been done in the past and could happen again, but it all obviously depends on AMD.

Everything hinges on how well the R9X turns out and how AMD prices it. If they price it super aggressively, and the benchmarks are true - nvidia will likely lower prices. They have in the past many times, just not for the GTX 500 or 600 series. There was no compelling reason for nvidia to lower GTX 580 or 680 prices, things could be different this time perhaps. We'll see.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

If true this become the most exciting news of 2013 I'd say. Well, between this and the launch of the Titan...


----------



## ledzepp3

I'm very impressed with this AMD. I now have to wait for the super hardcore AMD Radeon fanboys to start the bashing, and the nVidia boys to start defending the 780. It's sad that many people can't appreciate the hard work of either company, simply because they are too fixated on defending/ boasting about their favorite camp.

Still can't wait to see the reviews









-Zepp


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> How does a 7970 compare to a Titan clock for clock right now? If this card is 20% smaller than a Titan and up to 10% faster (based on those benches), then they've made some pretty good efficiency gains.


Don't really pay much attention to the Titan to be honest b/c of it's ridiculous price. But probably ~40% slower. Titan is also clocked lower than 780 so I don't expect 290x to beat it clock-for-clock.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ledzepp3*
> 
> I'm very impressed with this AMD. I now have to wait for the super hardcore AMD Radeon fanboys to start the bashing, and the nVidia boys to start defending the 780. It's sad that many people can't appreciate the hard work of either company, simply because they are too fixated on defending/ boasting about their favorite camp.
> 
> Still can't wait to see the reviews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Zepp


Agreed.

Personally I'm hoping Nvidia responds with some price drops. I'm interested in the 780 so hopefully this launch will make it more affordable.

Then again, this card will likely introduce BF4 to the never settle bundle which makes it hard to resist. Saints Row 4, Tomb Raider, BF4, and a GPU at Titan levels? Very enticing.


----------



## Nirvanaosc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> If true this become the most exciting news of 2013 I'd say. Well, between this and the launch of the Titan...


At least for me the launch of nVidia GTX Titan wasn't exciting at all, $999 removes any excitement very quickly.

If $600 price ends up being true, *this* is exciting.


----------



## xoleras

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nirvanaosc*
> 
> At least for me the launch of nVidia GTX Titan wasn't exciting at all, $999 removes any excitement very quickly.
> 
> If $600 price ends up being true, *this* is exciting.


Even more exciting if it includes a BF4 never settle bundle.


----------



## Mr357

As many have said, grain of salt. Even if the scores are real, the Titan is faster in my book because it would win clock for clock (it was at stock speeds in the testing, right?) against the 290X. If anything performance like this scares me because I'm looking to upgrade this time around. I'd rather not pay $700 for a single card + $100 or more for a waterblock.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Doesn't matter if they have a loyal fanbase. Nvidia has reacted to AMD nearly every gen.
> 
> When the 4870 was revealed, Nvidia pretty much instantly lowered the price of the GTX 280 by $249 ( $649 to $499 ). The same could happen here.
> 
> Also, Nvidia priced the 680 lower than the 7970. You'd think they'd price it higher since the 680 was faster than the 7970 at launch.


Did you fail math class? $649 - $499 = *$150*.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Lets say these numbers will be confirmed by every review site. Does that mean Nvidia will drop the Titan's and 780's price to 499 and 599 respectively?
> 
> Could you imagine how many pissed off titan owners there would be if it was 599.99


Titan owners knew what they were getting into, they can't expect their cards to be the fastest forever. Even if NVIDIA drops prices, they've had their cards for 7 months now. I've seen 580's go for $200 in the used market now. Are all 580 owners pissed off that their cards have devalued so much? Nope, it's the nature of the beast.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is definitely interesting but of course we have to wait for official numbers before getting too excited. Even if true, I won't be switching back to AMD simply because I prefer Nvidia's CP, drivers, and how everything generally just "works". When I had 7970's they were the fastest cards of the time but I had so many issues and had to do so many weird hacks and mods just to get them working half the time (this was all prior to the 13.xx series of drivers which magically fixed most everything)....


Truth finally comes out. I remember you going on and on about how perfect 7970's were, and that you had absolutely no issues with them.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I wouldn't rule it out. Nvidia left some reserve in the tank possibly just for a situation like this. I really do believe that the negative PR campaign they are running against AMD right now is borne from the fact that they are nervous about Hawaii...


What negative PR campaign? You mean the alleged campaign by PCPer, that allegedly NVIDIA paid for, eventhough AMD is PCPER's #1 advertiser? Is that the one? Damn, that was mouthful.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1427828/bsn-state-of-4k/0_50#post_20827758

You should know better than to buy into AMD's PR.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xoleras*
> 
> I hope these benchmarks are true, competition is a great thing regardless of what brand you prefer. That said, it's still too early to declare victory. While this poster is reputable at chiphell, let's wait for more benchmarks.
> 
> Again, I hope they're true. If they are true, hats off to AMD. However again - It's still too early though, need more data.


I'm hoping these are true also, some solid competition is badly needed. Considering it's been almost 2 years since the 7970 released, anything less would be a fail from AMD.


----------



## Stay Puft

I'm hoping newegg will have a lot of these cards on day 1 and not that BS fiasco that happened with Titan


----------



## BinaryDemon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I've seen 580's go for $200 in the used market now. Are all 580 owners pissed off that their cards have devalued so much? Nope, it's the nature of the beast.


Actually I'm pissed that the GTX580 hasn't devalued more, I really wanted to SLI.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> Actually I'm pissed that the GTX580 hasn't devalued more, I really wanted to SLI.


I wouldnt even pay 200 for a 580. I'd rather a 650 ti boost for 150


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> Actually I'm pissed that the GTX580 hasn't devalued more, I really wanted to SLI.


It's due to poor GK104 CUDA compute performance

edit: also it seems like they pulled a Nvidia Kepler as far as compute



see http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-24.html for reference


----------



## raghu78

The 512 bit memory bus at 1.25 Ghz seems to be paying off as this chip is showing good performance at higher AA. This GPU should shine at 1440p / 1600p with 4X MSAA and at 1080p/1440p/1600p with 2x SSAA. the numbers for battlefield 3 are particularly impressive. this bodes well for BF4. and if AMD bundles BF4 with Hawaii they will sell like hot cakes even for USD 600.

http://www.chiphell.com/thread-862351-1-1.html
http://udteam.tistory.com/539


----------



## BizzareRide

What are the specs of this card? Can I get a clear answer, damn!


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ledzepp3*
> 
> I'm very impressed with this AMD. I now have to wait for the super hardcore AMD Radeon fanboys to start the bashing, and the nVidia boys to start defending the 780. It's sad that many people can't appreciate the hard work of either company, simply because they are too fixated on defending/ boasting about their favorite camp.
> 
> Still can't wait to see the reviews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Zepp


LOL so true.

I think it is actually a necessity for AMD to release a card to beat the Titan to remain a top contender in the high-end GPU market.

A large lead in the high-end GPU market only benefits Nvidia. Strong competition benefits the consumer.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> The 512 bit memory bus at 1.25 Ghz seems to be paying off as this chip is showing good performance at higher AA. This GPU should shine at 1440p / 1600p with 4X MSAA and at 1080p/1440p/1600p with 2x SSAA. the numbers for battlefield 3 are particularly impressive. this bodes well for BF4. and if AMD bundles BF4 with Hawaii they will sell like hot cakes even for USD 500.
> 
> http://www.chiphell.com/thread-862351-1-1.html
> http://udteam.tistory.com/539


If these perform better than titans at 1440+ I would pay $700 or more for them, so if they are that cheap count me in for 4 of them.


----------



## HellAce

Back on topic..........i think this is great news, especially good for driving competitive pricing.

Maybe the GTX Titan wont be such a rip off anymore. You've had your ridiculous pricing fun for long enough Nvidia, its time for you to slash them prices


----------



## criminal

Awesome if true.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Truth finally comes out. I remember you going on and on about how perfect 7970's were, and that you had absolutely no issues with them.


Nope, read my full post. After 13.XX (really 12.11) everything worked great.
Quote:


> What negative PR campaign? You mean the alleged campaign by PCPer, that allegedly NVIDIA paid for, eventhough AMD is PCPER's #1 advertiser? Is that the one? Damn, that was mouthful.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1427828/bsn-state-of-4k/0_50#post_20827758


Again, nope. I'm referring to the TR article that said in no uncertain terms that Nvidia rounded up three tech sites to drum up more bad press about an already known issue that AMD is currently working on (and a new non-issue of tearing which is easily cured by using a DP cable).

http://techreport.com/blog/25399/here-why-the-crossfire-eyefinity-4k-story-matters
Quote:


> For its part, Nvidia called together several of us in the press last week, got us set up to use FCAT with 4K monitors, and pointed us toward some specific issues with their competition. One the big issues Nvidia emphasized in this context is how Radeons using dual HDMI outputs to drive a 4K display can exhibit vertical tearing right smack in the middle of the screen, where the two tiles meet, because they're not being refreshed in sync... Fortunately, you can avoid this problem on Radeons simply by using a single DisplayPort cable and putting the monitor into DisplayPort MST mode... I figure if you drop thousands of dollars on a 4K gaming setup, you can spring for the best cable config. So one of Nvidia's main points just doesn't resonate with me... And you've gotta say, it's quite the aggressive move, working to highlight problems with 4K displays just days ahead of your rival's big launch event for a next-gen GPU...


----------



## iamhollywood5

whyyyyy didn't I just wait :'(


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellAce*
> 
> Back on topic..........i think this is great news, especially good for driving competitive pricing.
> 
> Maybe the GTX Titan wont be such a rip off anymore. You've had your ridiculous pricing fun for long enough Nvidia, its time for you to slash them prices


KIll the Titan, re-release a 2688 @3GB @ 980Mhz to top Hawaii again, seems the best bet. IMO.


----------



## ScottyP

Wonder if this will lower 780 prices enough for me to SLI


----------



## ledzepp3

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Personally I'm hoping Nvidia responds with some price drops. I'm interested in the 780 so hopefully this launch will make it more affordable.
> 
> Then again, this card will likely introduce BF4 to the never settle bundle which makes it hard to resist. Saints Row 4, Tomb Raider, BF4, and a GPU at Titan levels? Very enticing.






I had some bad experiences with nVidia in years past, so I turned to Radeon cards back then they were still ATI. I still respect nVidia because they (and AMD) phenomenal products. I'd be just as happy with a 680 as I am with my 7970's as long as they both work the way they should. I just want to see the market and overall computer industry be driven forward, and not hear "Oh, AMD runs hot" or "nVidia is only for workstations". I'm tired of it, and I just wanna see people be mature and realistic instead of defending "their" company.

-Zepp


----------



## Bal3Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> Actually I'm pissed that the GTX580 hasn't devalued more, I really wanted to SLI.


good compute cards is why its holding its price i would guess.

And if this is true amd should gain alot of market share from what we know of nvida they wont drop their prices much and not very soon either they will put the spin doctor on it to try to avoid losing any money.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Nope, read my full post. After 13.XX (really 12.11) everything worked great.
> Again, nope. I'm referring to the TR article that said in no uncertain terms that Nvidia rounded up three tech sites to drum up more bad press about an already known issue that AMD is currently working on (and a new non-issue of tearing which is easily cured by using a DP cable).
> 
> http://techreport.com/blog/25399/here-why-the-crossfire-eyefinity-4k-story-matters


I never understood the pcper/bsn article as this came out months ago >>>> http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/extremewindows/archive/2013/07/25/pushing-the-12k-pc-gaming-boundary-at-1-5-billion-pixels-per-second.aspx

I believe this is why nvidia came up with the publishing bashing. a quote from a comment:
Quote:


> The reason why they are using AMD GPUs instead of NVIDIA GPUs is simple, at the time of writing this post, the PN-K321 does not work with NVIDIA GPUs at 4K @ 60 Hz due to NVIDIA's artificially crippled driver.
> 
> In a pointless attempt to protect the revenues of their very expensive professional Quardro GPUs, NVIDIA artifically cripples their Windows driver to prevent users from using features like Surround 2x1, 2x2 configurations, 10-bit color and multiple display stereoscopic 3D in OpenGL (Quad Buffer Stereo). All Geforce cards are capable of these features and they are accessible when using the Linux GeForce driver but they are artificially disabled in the Windows driver.
> 
> Due to silicon limitations, this display requires DisplayPort MST to operate at 4K @ 60 Hz. The display actually appears as two tiled 1920x2160 monitors which is why this monitor is capable of doing 4K @ 60 Hz over 2 HDMI cables.
> 
> With the introduction of this monitor, NVIDIA was left with a choice, either support Surround 2x1, 2x2 configurations properly so anyone with any pair of monitors could play a 3D game with any variety of 2 or 4 monitors or they could write some sort of hack in the driver to support these types of monitors specifically while avoiding giving Windows users 2x1 and 2x2 Surround support.
> 
> NVIDIA is the lone GPU maker without 2x1 and 2x2 monitor configuration support. AMD has supported it forever with Eyefinity and now even Intel supports these configurations with their integrated GPUs using their Collage feature.
> 
> So you can probably guess what NVIDIA decided to do, instead of supporting Surround 2x1 properly, they decided to hack their drivers. They created an EDID white-list so they could detect these kinds of monitors and support their unique 2x1 capability while still disabling general Surround 2x1 support with any pair of monitors.
> 
> NVIDIA had an pre-production version of this display and updated their driver based on that. However when Sharp finally shipped this monitor, they changed the EDID data from the pre-production display. This change caused the display to fail the NVIDIA EDID whitelist check and not allow it to operate at 4K @ 60 Hz. So now NVIDIA is in the process of adding the correct EDID data to the white-list in the driver and soon the monitor will finally work with NVIDIA GPUs.
> 
> NVIDIA could have avoided all this by just giving everyone proper 2x1 and 2x2 surround support.
> 
> This comment is a summary of the following massive 9 page thread with comments directly from NVIDIA confirming the above:
> 
> forums.geforce.com/.../1


i didn't see that line from tech report about nvidia approaching them and a bunch of others about problems with amd drivers. pretty sketchy.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> and if AMD bundles BF4 with Hawaii they will sell like hot cakes even for USD 500.


Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't see them selling a card that beats the Titan by 10% for $500. They could price it at $600, undercut the 780 while beating it by 15%, and still sell as many as they can make.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't see them selling a card that beats the Titan by 10% for $500. They could price it at $600, undercut the 780 while beating it by 15%, and still sell as many as they can make.


Im with force. No way it'll be 500. I'd pay 599-649


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Last time AMD used 512-Bit they where going against the Titan or those times the 8800 GTX. It did not go well. Being HD 2900 XTX and the new card R9 - 290X i hope they are not alike lol.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Last time AMD used 512-Bit they where going against the Titan or those times the 8800 GTX. It did not go well. Being HD 2900 XTX and the new card R9 - 290X i hope they are not alike lol.


The good old days


----------



## ebduncan

fast card, I will wait for official reviews.

If these leaks are true, then it pretty much beats the Titan. Hella impressive for 599$.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The good old days


Indeed. Look at how much faster 8800 GTX is compare to last gens fastest card 1950 XTX. If only we would get those jumps not without having to pay $1000 and still getting less performance.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Nope, read my full post. After 13.XX (really 12.11) everything worked great.
> Again, nope. I'm referring to the TR article that said in no uncertain terms that Nvidia rounded up three tech sites to drum up more bad press about an already known issue that AMD is currently working on (and a new non-issue of tearing which is easily cured by using a DP cable).
> 
> http://techreport.com/blog/25399/here-why-the-crossfire-eyefinity-4k-story-matters


What's wrong with that story?

If their competition has issues, which they do not, what's wrong with pointing them out?
Quote:


> That said, Nvidia deserves some credit for making sure its products work properly. My experience with dual GeForce GTX 770s and a 4K display has been nearly seamless. Plug in two HDMI inputs or a single DisplayPort connection with MST, and the GeForce drivers identify the display and configure it silently without resorting to the Surround setup UI. There's no vertical tearing if you choose to use dual HDMI inputs. You're going to want to use multiple graphics cards in order to get fluid gameplay at 4K resolutions, and Nvidia's frame metering tech allows our dual-GTX 770 SLI setup to deliver. It's noticeably better than dual Radeon HD 7970s, and not in a subtle way. Nvidia has engineered a solution that overcomes a lot of obstacles in order to make that happen. Give them props for that.
> 
> *As for AMD, well, one can imagine the collective groan that went up in their halls when word of these problems surfaced on the eve of their big announcement. The timing isn't great for them. I received some appeals to my better nature, asking me not to write about these things yet*, telling me I'd hear all about AMD's 4K plans next week. I expect AMD to commit to fixing the problems with its existing products, as well as unveiling a newer and more capable high-end GPU. I'm looking forward to it.


What?!?! AMD is trying to get reviewers NOT to expose the issues they have?
Quote:


> But I'm less sympathetic when I think about how AMD has marketed multi-GPU solutions like the Radeon HD 7990 as the best solution for 4K graphics. *We're talking about very expensive products that simply don't work like they should. I figure folks should know about these issues today, not later.*
> 
> My hope is that we'll be adding another chapter to this story soon, one that tells the tale of AMD correcting these problems in both current and upcoming Radeons.


Need I remind you of:










If AMD can dish it out, they should be able to take it. At least NVIDIA isn't making stuff up, and just bashing AMD, but pointing out *REAL* issues that their competition has. I found nothing wrong with the story, and I'm glad you brought it to my attention. I gained further respect for Scott Wasson.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


Oops...


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


I underestimated GCN 2.0. Simple as that. The benchmarks proved me wrong but nvidia does have the better drivers especially for 2 and 3 card setups which i love running. I just hope a pair of these 290's in crossfire doesn't disappoint at 1600P


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't see them selling a card that beats the Titan by 10% for $500. They could price it at $600, undercut the 780 while beating it by 15%, and still sell as many as they can make.


sorry that was a typo. i meant USD 600 with BF4 and that kind of performance AMD can sell a lot of these buggers.


----------



## TrevBlu19

Wow we got some big time nvidia fanboys in this amd thread. lol


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I underestimated GCN 2.0. Simple as that. The benchmarks proved me wrong but nvidia does have the better drivers especially for 2 and 3 card setups which i love running. I just hope a pair of these 290's in crossfire doesn't disappoint at 1600P


wait for CF frame pacing phase 2 reviews and then decide based on extensive testing by tech press.







I am guessing it will coincide with Hawaii's full retail launch in early- mid Oct.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> What's wrong with that story?
> 
> If their competition has issues, which they do not, what's wrong with pointing them out?
> What?!?! AMD is trying to get reviewers NOT to expose the issues they have?
> Need I remind you of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If AMD can dish it out, they should be able to take it. At least NVIDIA isn't making stuff up, and just bashing AMD, but pointing out *REAL* issues that their competition has. I found nothing wrong with the story, and I'm glad you brought it to my attention. I gained further respect for Scott Wasson.


"The Fixer" is an appropriate advertisement, regardless of how cheesy it may be. Merely gathering journalist and describing problems a competitor has and telling them to write a review on it is a completely different angle.

Considering nvidia can't run a 4k MST screen at 60hz (without white listing it), I ask you to take what you will from it.

Think its funny though that a screen res that less then 1% will use for at least a year or two is even being divulged this much.


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> "The Fixer" is an appropriate advertisement, regardless of how cheesy it may be. Merely gathering journalist and describing problems a competitor has and telling them to write a review on it is a completely different angle.
> 
> Considering nvidia can't run a 4k MST screen at 60hz (without white listing it), I ask you to take what you will from it.
> 
> Think its funny though that a screen res that less then 1% will use for at least a year or two is even being divulged this much.


Agreed. Seems a lot of fuss for such a small group. Sounds like how the US government is run in last few decades.


----------



## Crouch

A card that puts the titan behind, damn!


----------



## Ha-Nocri

As much as I love what AMD is doing with much less budget than NV, I would sack their marketing team. Those fixes commercials are just ******ed.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> As much as I love what AMD is doing with much less budget than NV, I would sack their marketing team. Those fixes commercials are just ******ed.


Its not for us...the director and writer were on some site, may be this or a different one, but said its meant to be as cheeky as possible. They had fun with it and its about brand awareness.


----------



## Jpmboy

If the production cards do as well, or better hopefully, i'm in for 2.


----------



## raghu78

This GPU is a perfect match for high res and high AA gaming. Crysis 3 at 1080p and 1600p with 4x MSAA and BF3 at 1080p and 1600p with 4x MSAA are good indicators that this GPU is a Titan competitor. It looks like AMD took a pitcairn chip and doubled everything. front end , memory bus width, shaders ( if its 2816 they went a bit more than double). ROPs are at 48. but thats more than enough when you are talking of a crossbar based memory controller and ROP setup.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fudteam.tistory.com%2F539&act=url
http://www.chiphell.com/thread-862351-1-1.html


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> "The Fixer" is an appropriate advertisement, regardless of how cheesy it may be. Merely gathering journalist and describing problems a competitor has and telling them to write a review on it is a completely different angle.
> 
> Considering nvidia can't run a 4k MST screen at 60hz (without white listing it), I ask you to take what you will from it.
> 
> Think its funny though that a screen res that less then 1% will use for at least a year or two is even being divulged this much.


One company points out real issues the competition has, and it's considered "bashing".

AMD bashes NVIDIA with some ******ed videos that only AMD fans enjoy, and it's considered "appropriate".

In the Fixer Part 2, AMD is giving the illusion that they have superior drivers, is that really true? It only took them 20 months to get a fix after the cards initially released, and it only got fixed thanks to the reviewers who exposed the issues. In another thread, I already pointed that MS has been an issue for at least 5 years, yet AMD claimed to not have known such an issue exists.

Last I checked, their Frame Pacing drivers still haven't fixed DX9 or multi-monitor, but they still are giving the illusion of having superior drivers. If you enjoy being misled then by all means keep buying AMD, go buy a 9590 while you're at it to replace that 3960X, it's 5 GHZ and beats your 4.7 processor.









*Disclaimer*: You'll have to decipher what is serious, and what is sarcasm.


----------



## Otterclock

Were there additional benchmarks other than the ones where the mystery amd gpu did better in two games, similar in one, and worse on 3Dmark?


----------



## AlphaC

AMD is not just bashing NVidia, they brought back Ruby and are hitting hard with "Gaming Evolved" (like Nvidia TWIMTBP)
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/09/20/amd-livestream-gpu14/
Quote:


> AMD Red Team: Let the tease begin!
> 
> As the event moves closer, on Monday September 16, they began a series teasing the next-gen GPUs.
> 
> Step one, AMD officially brought back Ruby, the secret agent previously appearing in multiple ATI GPU Demos [Author's note: The author is actually surprised that this page, dated 2009, still exists in AMD servers without any missing images.] which aims at showing Radeon GPU rendering capabilities, back to the stage after a 5-year hiatus and a brief sneak peek in GDC 2013 with GCN-based GPU and a modified CryEngine 3. It starts off with Facebook event for supporters (called the "AMD Red Team Members") to vote for the storyline of Ruby coming back on stage, and now a dedicated twitter account.
> 
> In the meatspace though, AMD had an interview with Forbes stating they will not be targeting a $999-class enthusiast GPUs, basically "white elephants" from our perspective. And then, AMD announced live stream for the September 25 event on their official website, Facebook fan page and YouTube channel, with replay available on their YouTube channel later. And the fun part is, NVIDIA doesn't have an answer to that.
> 
> What we see prior to the interview and the live stream announcement is AMD moving forward and betting heavily on social media marketing to make a larger impact on the Intertubes, leading to a better appeal to the PC gamers, even the video live stream itself is not heard of in the past few years regarding a product launch event on its own, which previously video live streams are limited to Computex, other trade shows, and last year's AMD Fusion Developer Summit.
> 
> To us, the media, it probably means "we won't be able to do in-depth Q&As unless otherwise arranged subsequently, sorry" like their previous press conference events, which is a pity. But the rest of the Intertubes who care about PC gaming hardware, whether people who are being part of the AMD Red Team or one of the Green/Blue team members, now you know what to mark on your calendar on September 25, and what you can expect during and after the livestream. S|A


"Radeon is Gaming"
http://sites.amd.com/us/GAME/Pages/game-home.aspx

Social media to change perception...
http://social.amd.com/

"Test Drive"
http://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Article/Tag/Test-Drive-Program


----------



## Joa3d43

...seems also that Titan faces now price / performance pressures from two sides - the in-house 780 series and the (now expanding) AMD side of things...certainly can't be bad for those wanting to upgrade in the near future...even those waiting for a Titan Ultra

..no idea where RX 290 will fit in re the graph below, but shouldn't be too hard to guess (source is TechPWU 780 Lightning review, graph is 'summary' of prior individual tests at various resolutions > http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_780_Lightning/26.html )


----------



## ejb222

Wow...all the NV fans really have their panties in a jumble. If this is true...give AMD props due. Or you can keep talking about issues that effect 1% of the market share.


----------



## Usario

Inshallah this is true... looks amazing. Let's hope AMD will stay true to their word and won't jack up the price like Nvidia did with their Titan.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Otterclock*
> 
> Were there additional benchmarks other than the ones where the mystery amd gpu did better in two games, similar in one, and worse on 3Dmark?


from the udteam and chiphell scores Hawaii takes BF3, COH2. AvP and Stalker are also in Hawaii's favour. But I consider those games too old to be representative of today's games. Tombraider also is faster on Hawaii because it ties without MSAA and is faster with MSAA. Crysis 3 is a tie. with MSAA Hawaii is on par / faster at 1080p and faster at 1600p wrt Titan. but slower without AA. Since the purpose of these GPUs is to play at max settings that bodes well for hawaii.

I would like OC comparisons which pit a voltage / power target unlocked Titan against a voltage overclocked Hawaii. should be interesting but I think Titan should edge ahead. but good to see close competition.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> from the udteam and chiphell scores Hawaii takes BF3, COH2. AvP and Stalker are also in Hawaii's favour. But I consider those games too old to be representative of today's games. Tombraider also is faster on Hawaii because it ties without MSAA and is faster with MSAA. Crysis 3 is a tie. with MSAA Hawaii is on par / faster at 1080p and faster at 1600p wrt Titan. but slower without AA. Since the purpose of these GPUs is to play at max settings that bodes well for hawaii.
> 
> I would like OC comparisons which pit a voltage / power target unlocked Titan against a voltage overclocked Hawaii. should be interesting but I think Titan should edge ahead. but good to see close competition.


Me too. I'm hoping for some 1300 core results from the 290


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Me too. I'm hoping for some 1300 core results from the 290


i thought you preferred Nvidia. looks like you are willing to reconsider. Hopefully AMD gets the CF frame pacing phase 2 driver out by launch day


----------



## Seid Dark

I'm dreaming about GTX 780 price drop to 400$ so I could get another one for SLI. AMD, don't you dare to disappoint


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> I keep saying companies price their products based on profitability but no one seems to be listening :\
> 
> If OCN were to be believed companies only set prices to 1-up their "competition", income be damned.


I believe you. It's not a good situation when companies set their profit margins and then price accordingly. In reality consumers should be able to control the market. But if companies have the ability to define pricing based on the profit they want and not purely by competition and supply & demand, then we have a problem.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I'm dreaming about GTX 780 price drop to 400$ so I could get another one for SLI. AMD, don't you dare to disappoint


400 is not possible. GTX 780 can come down to USD 500 - 550. custom factory OC GTX 780 cards like MSI lightning , evga classified and galaxy HOF need to be at USD 600.


----------



## ejb222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> i thought you preferred Nvidia. looks like you are willing to reconsider. Hopefully AMD gets the CF frame pacing phase 2 driver out by launch day


All his rigs say AMD....but I think he was commenting earlier regarding NV in that he was giving credit to NV for their work on the Titan...nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> i thought you preferred Nvidia. looks like you are willing to reconsider. Hopefully AMD gets the CF frame pacing phase 2 driver out by launch day


I like to run 2 and 3 card setups and until recently Nvidia was hands down the best choice but with the release of the frame pacing driver amd is turning things around. I also just went to 1600P and while TRI 760's are nice a pair of 290's would be better suited for this resolution


----------



## Jared Pace

This thing was benched with only 5ghz mem. I think with Oc vmem to 7ghz it should have a nice perf increase. 1020mhz core, probably does 1250-1300 easily, 1300-1400 with good voltage.

Probably equal to Titan OC vs. OC. I think Titan might still keep the 3dmark LN2 records, but Andre will probably unload the 1.9ghz quadfire scores next week.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejb222*
> 
> I believe you. It's not a good situation when companies set their profit margins and then price accordingly. In reality consumers should be able to control the market. But if companies have the ability to define pricing based on the profit they want and not purely by competition and supply & demand, then we have a problem.


Profitability is ultimately determined by supply and demand. So consumers do have a say in what the pricing will be.


----------



## mouacyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> 400 is not possible. GTX 780 can come down to USD 500 - 550. custom factory OC GTX 780 cards like MSI lightning , evga classified and galaxy HOF need to be at USD 600.


Please return to the days of $200 - $300 enthusiast cards ( ie radeon 9700pro).


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared Pace*
> 
> This thing was benched with only 5ghz mem. I think with Oc vmem to 7ghz it should have a nice perf increase*. 1020mhz core, probably does 1250-1300 easily, 1300-1400 with good voltage.*
> 
> Probably equal to Titan OC vs. OC. I think Titan might still keep the 3dmark LN2 records, but Andre will probably unload the 1.9ghz quadfire scores next week.


I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself here. We really have no idea how they will OC and these leaks are not exactly confirmed yet either. I had 4 7970's and only one of them (a Lightning) ever made it close to 1300MHz (1275MHz) so to assume 1300+MHz for this new 290X may be a bit premature...


----------



## DaveLT

I'm surprised no one mentioned the blower on it
Didn't like the 7k series cooler but that is one hell of a sexy cooler man!
That's even sexier than the 6k series cooler


----------



## jomama22

just a fair warning. Dont be surprised when amds boost equivalent makes an appearance. im hopeing for the best but....


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Why so much hate for the blower fan on this new card? Last I checked my Titans came with blower fans and that somehow wasn't any problem. Oh wait I get it, they were shiny so it was OK...


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Why so much hate for the blower fan on this new card? Last I checked my Titans came with blower fans and that somehow wasn't any problem. Oh wait I get it, they were shiny so it was OK...


nvidia optimized their fans for silence over performance, which is why the titans and 780s throttle easily, meanwhile amd just let their blower fans go full speed ahead and ended up with the ear destroyers we have today.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Why so much hate for the blower fan on this new card? Last I checked my Titans came with blower fans and that somehow wasn't any problem. Oh wait I get it, they were shiny so it was OK...


Probably because recent AMD blower coolers have been less than optimally quiet. Or, in plain speak, they are loud.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Why so much hate for the blower fan on this new card? Last I checked my Titans came with blower fans and that somehow wasn't any problem. Oh wait I get it, they were shiny so it was OK...


The problem I have with it is it's a plastic, box shape cooler design which looks like it belongs on a mid-range card from 2008 lol... I mean, that cooler design doesn't exactly scream "flagship" to me, or "2013"... It also looks like it could be noisy as hell, which is kinda an issue if you're running a xfire setup.

Someone brought up the argument that everyone's gonna watercool them anyway, to that I say 'yeah maybe in 2 months after launch when the cooling blocks are actually available'. And if performance is as good as it's rumoured to be, no one who's in the market for this card is gonna want to wait 2 months before buying


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> The problem I have with it is it's a plastic, box shape cooler design which looks like it belongs on a mid-range card from 2008 lol... I mean, that cooler design doesn't exactly scream "flagship" to me, or "2013"... It also looks like it could be noisy as hell, which is kinda an issue if you're running a xfire setup.
> 
> Someone brought up the argument that everyone's gonna watercool them anyway, to that I say 'yeah maybe in 2 months after launch when the cooling blocks are actually available'. And if performance is as good as it's rumoured to be, no one who's in the market for this card is gonna want to wait 2 months before buying


Its an ES ...hence the green wire haphazardly attached. But will it be a blower in some for or another? Probably.


----------



## StayFrosty

I love how back then when there were alleged benchmarks of the Titan/780 everyone was like oohhh look its super revolutionary...









Same thing happens to AMD's new card and everyone's like it's fake etc.

Really OCN?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StayFrosty*
> 
> I love how back then when there were alleged benchmarks of the Titan/780 everyone was like oohhh look its super revolutionary...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing happens to AMD's new card and everyone's like it's fake etc.
> 
> Really OCN?


from what ive seen most people have accepted them as real, and almost everyone has been hoping they are real, but there is always the chance of them being fake :x


----------



## HanSomPa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> from what ive seen most people have accepted them as real, and almost everyone has been hoping they are real, but there is always the chance of them being fake :x


It's probably fake. If AMD really had a killer GPU, they'd make a whole campaign about it. Instead, they're hush hush, kinda like the 6970 launch.


----------



## deafboy

Looking forward to seeing more reviews and how things overclock...

670s might have to go into an HTPC or something, lol.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> Its an ES ...hence the green wire haphazardly attached. But will it be a blower in some for or another? Probably.


Maybe you're right, I really don't know enough about ES's, so educate me: we know that at least one DICE employee has one of these cards too, and he's rocking the plastic brick cooler design too. Would AMD be giving developers that cooler to build and test games on if it isnt a final design? I mean, the point of giving it to Dev teams is so they can tune their game for the real-world settings it will be played in... So how does having a inferior cooler design help them test real-world environments properly? :/


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> It's probably fake. If AMD really had a killer GPU, they'd make a whole campaign about it. Instead, they're hush hush, kinda like the 6970 launch.


with their recent marketing strategy, they would make a worldwide campaign about it even if it was gonna be a bad card, one of the few things i dont like about amd is their marketing teams ability to self boast knowing they dont got much to go on.


----------



## TheLawIX

I was all for AMD ever since the Titan came out. If the above results are true + the never settled bundles, I'm sold. Crossfire here I come


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StayFrosty*
> 
> I love how back then when there were alleged benchmarks of the Titan/780 everyone was like oohhh look its super revolutionary...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing happens to AMD's new card and everyone's like it's fake etc.
> 
> Really OCN?


If there was only 1 or 2 benchmarks i would say they were fake but there are multiple games being tested. Normally im a skeptic but nothing here screams fake to me
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLawIX*
> 
> I was all for AMD ever since the Titan came out. If the above results are true + the never settled bundles, I'm sold. Crossfire here I come


Totally forgot about the bundles. This card + 3 free games at 599.99


----------



## szeged

yeah if it was like one bench on some game no one really plays with completely absurd results, id have to say fake, but so far everything seems to be legit...hopefully.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I just can't help going back and reading some of the posts by the same guys who have been prominently speaking out in this thread and the others. Stuff like AMD will never build a 400+ mm^2 die again or that AMD won't have any new flagship cards out by the end of the year. Or how about the ad nauseam claims that AMD couldn't ever compete with Titan on a 28nm GPU or that AMD would NEVER do a 512-bit 7970 successor. It really would be funny to dig up all these old quotes right about now but I'll wait just a bit longer until these numbers become more official...


----------



## fleetfeather

I'll play devils advocate here for a sec:

Around ~24-48 hours before these benchmarks surfaced, a DICE employee tweeted a pic of the R2D2 he supposedly had for developing BF4.

Now, how soon after that tweet do you think some dude in Korea could throw together a copy-cat design of that (relatively simple) cooler design and throw up some benchmark graphs?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I just can't help going back and reading some of the posts by the same guys who have been prominently speaking out in this thread and the others. Stuff like AMD will never build a 400+ mm^2 die again or that AMD won't have any new flagship cards out by the end of the year. Or how about the ad nauseam claims that AMD couldn't ever compete with Titan on a 28nm GPU or that AMD would NEVER do a 512-bit 7970 successor. It really would be funny to dig up all these old quotes right about now but I'll wait just a bit longer until these numbers become more official...


3 more days hopefully amd can confirm this cards results


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Totally forgot about the bundles. This card + 3 free games at 599.99


Especially when bf4 is part of the bundles.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself here. We really have no idea how they will OC and these leaks are not exactly confirmed yet either. I had 4 7970's and only one of them (a Lightning) ever made it close to 1300MHz (1275MHz) so to assume 1300+MHz for this new 290X may be a bit premature...


Water or air? And what can a 780 do only on air? For sure those 1300+ results are not air, right?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Water or air? And what can a 780 do only on air? For sure those 1300+ results are not air, right?


we have had a few people here on ocn get 1300+ on air with reference cards, and 1400+ on air with custom pcb cards.


----------



## barcode71

So basically it's a card that rivals the Titan while being $350-$400 cheaper and lower power consumption. Will wait for official results.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> I'll play devils advocate here for a sec:
> 
> Around ~24-48 hours before these benchmarks surfaced, a DICE employee tweeted a pic of the R2D2 he supposedly had for developing BF4.
> 
> Now, how soon after that tweet do you think some dude in Korea could throw together a copy-cat design of that (relatively simple) cooler design and throw up some benchmark graphs?


Certainly a possibility but several OCNers that I trust have conceded that these may not be fake so I guess we'll see...


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I just can't help going back and reading some of the posts by the same guys who have been prominently speaking out in this thread and the others. Stuff like AMD will never build a 400+ mm^2 die again or that AMD won't have any new flagship cards out by the end of the year. Or how about the ad nauseam claims that AMD couldn't ever compete with Titan on a 28nm GPU or that AMD would NEVER do a 512-bit 7970 successor. It really would be funny to dig up all these old quotes right about now but I'll wait just a bit longer until these numbers become more official...


i got a Rolodex for you.....which reminds me of how awesome Rolodexs are!


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> we have had a few people here on ocn get 1300+ on air with reference cards, and 1400+ on air with custom pcb cards.


How's that possible? Temps are like 100c?








Probably only for a benchmark run


----------



## szeged

crank the fans to 11, point some exterior fans at the cards, open air benchs, and yeah only for bench runs, which 99% of these clocks people throw around are for really, i dont run 1.3v on my titans except for benchmarks, i actually flash back to stock bios whenever im just gaming, because the stock voltage is more than enough for the clocks i use for gaming.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> How's that possible? Temps are like 100c?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably only for a benchmark run


HOF 780's were @ 1300 on air.

but most of them went POP

Classy 780's are still kicking @ 1300 I believe


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> HOF 780's were @ 1300 on air.
> 
> but most of them went POP
> 
> Classy 780's are still kicking @ 1300 I believe


classifieds havent had any problems so far from what ive seen, and no i dont consider elpida memory a problem since that got blown wayyyyyyy out of proportion lol. king of the 780s by far


----------



## th3illusiveman

why would it lose in Unigine Valley when that benchmark heavily depends on the memory speed a card is running at? If this GPU has a 512bit Bus with should have a significant advantage over the titan in that area and win that bench.

also not happy about a $600 launch price. AMD or Nvidia i hate high prices, it *SHOULD* be $500 max and i guess i'll whine about this as much as i did when the titan and 780 launched when it launches and if this proves to be true.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barcode71*
> 
> So basically it's a card that rivals the Titan while being $350-$400 cheaper and lower power consumption. Will wait for official results.


"cheaper" loses it's value when the price of comparison product is so ridiculous to begin with.


----------



## szeged

because its clocked much much lower i believe.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> because its clocked much much lower i believe.


it's clocked higher than the titan

---

the reviewer mentioned he thought it may be due to shader complexity i believe.

I'll go pull the necessary quotes


----------



## Joa3d43

...re ultimate overclocks on air or water, ie 1300 MHz+, also keep in mind that there was a lot of custom GPU BIOS development that took place re NVidia 'boost' issues...and the point was made earlier that RX 290 might have a similar 'chastity belt' when they come out (given the die size, certainly a possibility)...so it may take a bit of time to see a real 'unrestricted open class' battle involving unrestricted / liberated RX 290s...one I nevertheless look forward to....and then there is the age-old question: apart from pricing issues, buy ??:

a.) 'early' on the assumption that when AMD and NVidia release new GPUs, they tend to be well-binned ones so that the reviews produce solid numbers right away to cash in on 'excited demand for s.th. new'

b.) wait until production is more mature and yields ''might'' go up


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> it's clocked higher than the titan


He's talking about memory clocks. 290x's only @1250MHz


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

True. Just a month or so ago there was far less excitement around here for Titan overclocking. The ability to push 1300MHz on Titans without solder was just a pipe dream until very recently...


----------



## sdlvx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> why would it lose in Unigine Valley when that benchmark heavily depends on the memory speed a card is running at? If this GPU has a 512bit Bus with should have a significant advantage over the titan in that area and win that bench.
> 
> also not happy about a $600 launch price. AMD or Nvidia i hate high prices, it *SHOULD* be $500 max and i guess i'll whine about this as much as i did when the titan and 780 launched when it launches and if this proves to be true.




Crysis 3 1080p no MSAA: Titan ahead by almost 9%
Crysis 3 1080p 4x MSAA: R9 290x ahead by 11%

Crysis 3 1600p no MSAA: Titan ahead by less than 1%, within margin of error
Crysis 3 1600p 4x MSAA: R9 290x ahead by 11%

I am tired and sleepy and not going to do the entire graph, but if this graph is true, Titan has serious vram bottlenecking problems in comparison to R9 290x. I knew GK104 had massive issues because Tom's found 7870 memory bottlenecked AFTER GK104 did with their 1080p 8xMSAA testing, but I didn't expect GK110 to fall on its face too.

The gap should get bigger at higher resolution, no doubt. I'd imagine triple monitor setup would have Titan falling behind by a lot, and you might be able to get two R9 290xs for the price of a single Titan.


----------



## fleetfeather

Clocks used



Synthetic explanation (reviewer only mentions 3dmark, but I'm guessing the explanation still holds)



(have fun deciphering the google translate english haha)


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 3 more days hopefully amd can confirm this cards results


I think the best we'll get on Tuesday is some marketing slides, real benches will have to wait for the NDA to lift, and I haven't even heard any rumors on when that'll be.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> Especially when bf4 is part of the bundles.


Has it been confirmed that BF4 is in the new bundle? I haven't been paying attention.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> He's talking about memory clocks. 290x's only @1250MHz


Oops D:


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I think the best we'll get on Tuesday is some marketing slides, real benches will have to wait for the NDA to lift, and I haven't even heard any rumors on when that'll be.
> Has it been confirmed that BF4 is in the new bundle? I haven't been paying attention.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> (have fun deciphering the google translate english haha)


i was actually reading the whole site on google translate earlier and busted out laughing really hard as soon as it got really good, people were just staring at me, so i showed them the site, and they were like....whats a gpu


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*


shut the front door. how long has this been known??


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*


Unless I'm mistaken, that's just a list of Gaming Evolved titles. Do we know if any of them are actually going to be bundled?

Edit: None of those current/new gen games are listed here (although I guess that's to be expected at this point):
http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/never-settle/Pages/nsreloadedforever.aspx


----------



## Opcode

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> We shall see. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if true. After all, Titan has been out for 7 months now. I would hope that the next generation of the AMD video card could beat a card that has been out for 7 months. That really isn't all that impressive a beating anyway (since the Titan still beats the 290X in several categories).


What? How is a card designed to battle the GTX 780 that also beats a TITAN not impressive? When it comes out has nothing to do with it. From the looks of it AMD will claim the performance crown once again.


----------



## deafboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, that's just a list of Gaming Evolved titles. Do we know if any of them are actually going to be bundled?
> 
> Edit: None of those current/new gen games are listed here (although I guess that's to be expected at this point):
> http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/never-settle/Pages/nsreloadedforever.aspx


Kind of just assumed given the description I guess

"Choose the games you want most from a large selection of AMD Gaming Evolved titles."


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Clocks used


Titan and 780 at lowly 800+ clocks? and both listed AMD cards at 1Ghz









/These are not the Droids you are looking for.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> It's probably fake. If AMD really had a killer GPU, they'd make a whole campaign about it. Instead, they're hush hush, kinda like the 6970 launch.


hush hush. AMD is holding a livestream event for Hawaii launch. . the first ever time by any GPU company for a GPU launch. something along the lines of Apple launching their iPhones or iPads . normally Intel and AMD do such a thing for their Computex trade shows or other important events like Intel IDF and AMD Fusion developer summit. This is the most aggressive marketing ever done by AMD for a GPU product.









http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1855822&highlight=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHfmM6QYWNM
https://www.facebook.com/AMDGaming
https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/380330500209926144


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Titan and 780 at lowly 800+ clocks? and both listed AMD cards at 1Ghz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /These are not the Droids you are looking for.


im excited to see the overclocked results, my titan easily boosts to 1202 at stock volts on non modded bios, and with modded bios and 1.3v+ it can do 1300+, if the new cards can match or beat that, then i will truly truly be impressed, especially for estimated prices of $600


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Titan and 780 at lowly 800+ clocks? and both listed AMD cards at 1Ghz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /These are not the Droids you are looking for.


It's stock speeds for all the cards (presumably on the AMD side at least). You'll notice the + sign there to indicate they are probably boosting higher. It would be nice to see the actual clock speeds, but what do you expect from a leaked benchmark.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Has it been confirmed that BF4 is in the new bundle? I haven't been paying attention.


Not yet but if bf4 is part of the bundles, that would be delicious.


----------



## DarkBlade6

Remember when they launched the 7970 , it was better than a 580 and Nvidia had nothing on the way before a couple month to compete with the 7970. So Amd launched that card at 550$ because the 580 was 500$, they priced it based on the price and the performance of the competition(o rly). Now if the R9 290x really beat the Titan (and the [email protected]$) , which is a thousand dollars card , do you REALLY think they are gonna price that card @ 600$..... Sorry but Its gonna cost ATLEAST a grand.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Titan and 780 at lowly 800+ clocks? and both listed AMD cards at 1Ghz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /These are not the Droids you are looking for.


do you not know that titan runs at 966 - 992 Mhz boost clocks.







also we don't know if that 1020 mhz is a boost clock or base clock. I am betting 1020 is boost clock with base clocks around 950 - 975 mhz for TDP reasons.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled/2


----------



## szeged

i dont think amds in a good place currently to try to pull a 1000 card, they kind of need these cards to sell, they wouldnt sell as many at 1k+, meanwhile nvidia released the titan expecting to not sell many of them.


----------



## sdlvx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i dont think amds in a good place currently to try to pull a 1000 card, they kind of need these cards to sell, they wouldnt sell as many at 1k+, meanwhile nvidia released the titan expecting to not sell many of them.


AMD specifically said they were done with the "ultra-enthusiast" gpu market. Meaning probably falling into the traditional $499 price bracket high end cards were usually sold at.

The question on my mind is if "traditional high end price point" means $499 or so like it has been in the past or if it means the new Nvidia "high end price point" of $649 for GTX 780 (Titan and GTX 690 are ultra-enthusiast at their prices).


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> Remember when they launched the 7970 , it was better than a 580 and Nvidia had nothing on the way before a couple month to compete with the 7970. So Amd launched that card at 550$ because the 580 was 500$, they priced it based on the price and the performance of the competition(o rly). Now if the R9 290x really beat the Titan (and the [email protected]$) , which is a thousand dollars card , do you REALLY think they are gonna price that card @ 600$..... Sorry but Its gonna cost ATLEAST a grand.


Well.. if you've been keeping up with the news, AMD said they aren't pricing in the ultra-enthusiast range ( aka $1000 ) because they believe not many people have that money ( no way! )

You also seem to forget they dropped the 7990 price to $699 from $1000.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> AMD specifically said they were done with the "ultra-enthusiast" gpu market. Meaning probably falling into the traditional $499 price bracket high end cards were usually sold at.
> 
> The question on my mind is if "traditional high end price point" means $499 or so like it has been in the past or if it means the new Nvidia "high end price point" of $649 for GTX 780 (Titan and GTX 690 are ultra-enthusiast at their prices).


im hoping itll be low, but if these benchmark results are legit, i wouldnt mind paying a higher price around 650 or so if amd decided to go that route.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Titan and 780 at lowly 800+ clocks? and both listed AMD cards at 1Ghz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /These are not the Droids you are looking for.


Are you familiar at all with how GPU Boost works with "stock" Nvidia clocks?


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> Remember when they launched the 7970 , it was better than a 580 and Nvidia had nothing on the way before a couple month to compete with the 7970. So Amd launched that card at 550$ because the 580 was 500$, they priced it based on the price and the performance of the competition(o rly). Now if the R9 290x really beat the Titan (and the [email protected]$) , which is a thousand dollars card , do you REALLY think they are gonna price that card @ 600$..... Sorry but Its gonna cost ATLEAST a grand.


For reasons mentioned in the past by myself and other members, yes, many of us do think this card is going to be priced around 600. Certainly nowhere near $1000 lol....


----------



## sdlvx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> AMD specifically said they were done with the "ultra-enthusiast" gpu market. Meaning probably falling into the traditional $499 price bracket high end cards were usually sold at.
> 
> The question on my mind is if "traditional high end price point" means $499 or so like it has been in the past or if it means the new Nvidia "high end price point" of $649 for GTX 780 (Titan and GTX 690 are ultra-enthusiast at their prices).
> 
> 
> 
> im hoping itll be low, but if these benchmark results are legit, i wouldnt mind paying a higher price around 650 or so if amd decided to go that route.
Click to expand...

Amazingly enough I wouldn't be surprised at $499 price point. Hawaii is estimated at about 30% smaller than GK110 which means AMD could sell it for 30% less than GTX 780 and still make a profit if the rumors of R9 290x being a partially disabled part and FirePros getting the full parts.

There's a lot of room for AMD to cause some massage carnage to Nvidia if they pulled this performance off with a 30% smaller die.

If AMD is better than 30% slower than GTX 780 and more than 30% cheaper they have a huge value winner here. And it sure looks like that's a low goal as 7970 is basically 30% slower than GTX 780.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

AMD is not in any position to try for $1k, especially after having aggressively chastised Nvidia for it with the Titan. Matching the Titan with the 290X will only be impressive if they offer it for far less money, otherwise they'd be saying "Hey, you could've gotten this performance back in February with a Titan, but now that you've waited for 8 months on us, here's the same performance for the same amount of money!"









Not happening...


----------



## TamaDrumz76

So... I'm hoping this is true... Would be badass if they added a down sampling feature to the drivers to have fun with that horsepower. The ease of down sampling and The Witcher 3 are the only things temping me to going back to Nvidia.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sdlvx*
> 
> Amazingly enough I wouldn't be surprised at $499 price point. Hawaii is estimated at about 30% smaller than GK110 which means AMD could sell it for 30% less than GTX 780 and still make a profit if the rumors of R9 290x being a partially disabled part and FirePros getting the full parts.
> 
> There's a lot of room for AMD to cause some massage carnage to Nvidia if they pulled this performance off with a 30% smaller die.
> 
> *If AMD is better than 30% slower than GTX 780 and more than 30% cheaper they have a huge value winner here. And it sure looks like that's a low goal as 7970 is basically 30% slower than GTX 780*.


AMD Hawaii XT is looking to be a Titan competitor at 30% smaller die size. so USD 600 with BF4 game coupon would be an awesome deal. This card can cause some headaches for Nvidia. primarily lowering of their record profit margins. though thats exactly what consumers were waiting for. renewed competition and better prices allround.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TamaDrumz76*
> 
> So... I'm hoping this is true... Would be badass if they added a down sampling feature to the drivers to have fun with that horsepower. The ease of down sampling and The Witcher 3 are the only things temping me to going back to Nvidia.


Is d/s worth it? I never can notice any difference. And how does it work anyway? It still have to show image for native resolution.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> though thats exactly what consumers were waiting for. renewed competition and better prices allround.


its been a long wait indeed, im excited to see nvidias response to this, either new gpus or lower prices, either one ill be happy to see.


----------



## Joa3d43

...other than retailers charging high in the 1st week of release for those who want to be 1st on their block, I would think pricing be in the mid-$600 range (though don't really know of course).

But the $1k market seems to have quietened down somewhat...noticed that several OEMs (incl. EVGA) have drastically reduced the number of versions of Titans while increasing it for 780s...in turn, upscale 780s like the 780 Lightning are also seeing a price drop already up here this week......it is safe to assume that AMD wants to gain market-share against NVidia with this, and that suggests very competitive pricing , with room for OEMs to upscale via special versions (ie custom VRMs and higher-clocked VRAM)


----------



## szeged

im hoping HIS make a badass version of the r2d2.


----------



## iARDAs

I wonder about the OC potential.

Because with my OC titan, I can almost get a stock 690 performance.


----------



## AstralReaper

I don't know if I should grab a 2nd 7950 or get one of these. Guess time will tell.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> ... otherwise they'd be saying "Hey, you could've gotten this performance back in February with a Titan, but now that you've waited for 8 months on us, here's the same performance for the same amount of money!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not happening...


Of course, that's almost exactly what they did with the 7990.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

One would imagine that lesson is still fresh in their minds though...


----------



## iARDAs

If this GPU beats Titan and costs $400 cheaper than its a big win for AMD.

So far I am loving the price and unoffical benchmarks of this card. Wondering if I should do a switch.


----------



## momonz

Very exciting indeed. Color me impress if this is true. Plus I like the sample cooler design.


----------



## Joa3d43

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> One would imagine that lesson is still fresh in their minds though...


...that 7990 release was a weird one, apart from 'odd' general marketing - managed to be late and early at the same time







..they were way late with their (official) 2-GPU solution based on their flagship design, yet too early re their CF driver fix release(s)


----------



## Roaches

I just want that BF4 bundle get 2 and give one code to a friend :3


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> I just want that BF4 bundle get 2 and give one code to a friend :3


^ this but I'll list the other one on OCN Freebies for massive epeen

(all my friends have already preordered)

no, it's not as depressing at it first sounds


----------



## Stay Puft

Its refreshing to see a company realize a lot of us don't want to pay the super high prices for our toys. 599 will be a steal and make a lot of people realize they don't need to pay nvidias high prices on the latest and greatest. Major props if this indeed true and accurate amd.


----------



## Roaches

^ I hope so too for the launch pricing









I can't wait for AIB partners to introduce their own coolers.....I'd totally want Gigabyte add moar fans like they did to their GTX 680 SOC


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> ^ I hope so too for the launch pricing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait for AIB partners to introduce their own coolers.....I'd totally want Gigabyte add moar fans like they did to their GTX 680 SOC


All I ask for is voltage control on the reference models then I'm slapping a pair of arctic Xtreem iii's on them.


----------



## Roaches

Yes that too! Voltage control is a must!


----------



## kingduqc

if it's true I kinda want to buy one.

thing is my 670 is still doing fine in 95% of the cases. Maybe battlefield 4 wont enjoy the max details but even then shelling out 600$ on a card that will be eclipsed with 20 nm :/


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Yes that too! Voltage control is a must!


The problem is this will have 5+1 power phases which might not be enough for high OC (risk of burning the card). That is y I think voltage will be locked.


----------



## Roaches

You have a point there, maybe locked for reference design and unlocked for high end custom AIB designs that feature higher power phases...
Or introduce VRM thermal throttling as failsafe such as Nvidia GPUboost 2.0


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> The problem is this will have 5+1 power phases which might not be enough for high OC (risk of burning the card). That is y I think voltage will be locked.


amd did say they are going to focus on it being efficient this time around didnt they? i really hope its not volt locked, then well have to turn to the good people at OCN to unlock Afterburner on AMD aswell as nvidia


----------



## dantoddd

Hopefully they"ll price this around 500 USD


----------



## badrapper

The price will be $50 cheaper vs the stock GTX780 (Its what Nvidia did with GTX680), and then slowly drop anther $50 as demand dies down and Nvidia drop prices to compete if (See below) doesn't work.

PS Cant wait for AMD has Issues Marketing Offensive, driver superiority (_4K already started at_ _PCPER & TR_) and/or better brand rumours from Nvidia to keep Price gouging.

These are going to be monsters at high resolutions. Heat maybe an issue, and is why better cooling was mentioned some months ago by AMD and partners.


----------



## Tatakai All

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> idk if youve ever actually read any of my posts except for the word titan in it then get all up in arms and throw on your amd big boy panties and start slinging accusations around, but im loyal to neither brand, i go with whats better on either side, and so far titan has been the go to card for that, and the amd card has proven to be a solid contender for #1 spot now, and with proper drivers it could take the lead in most situations, *i never said it was going to be impossible*, i just said itll be a tough challenge to beat the titan and amd pulled through. ill still keep my titans for now though because the titan still holds the crown in a lot of the games i play according to those benchmarks up there.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> yeah it is pretty simple, it simply will not beat the titan, sorry but youre setting yourself up for dissapointment.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*


that was when looking at the old specs i believe, though i did say that i will admit! but again, that was with the other specs showing it being 5% under the 780









i am glad that it came out on the titans level, atleast on this persons bench runs, win for the consumers.


----------



## badrapper

^^ Not directed at you BTW.

They will just come out with some new excuse, they always do as these are hardened Nvidia fans


----------



## szeged

lol, amd fans always get upset when nvidia users say they are glad for amd, yet they are upset when they say they dislike amd, cant ever make em happy.


----------



## xinpig

I've never been so excited to get a new graphics card.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> lol, amd fans always get upset when nvidia users say they are glad for amd, yet they are upset when they say they dislike amd, cant ever make em happy.


AMD fans just like to argue.


----------



## sidewaykill

Win for everyone except NV, yay.


----------



## mltms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> AMD fans just like to argue.


We are happy because we did not pay $1000 for single gpu


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mltms*
> 
> We are happy because we did not pay $1000 for single gpu


and we are happy we did, because we knew exactly what we were buying, and we knew that one day it wouldnt be the fastest single gpu on the market, and the resale value of them would plummet









and then there are those of us(like me) who bought 90% of their titans used for around the price of a 780


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Thank you guys. Wow if this is indeed at 599.99 i'm so in for 2. Time for a price cut Nvidia?


You and me both, less the 780 drops to 500$







competition...gotta love it.

Just hopping these are true. Either way i expect it to be around the listed numbers. I mean if it doesn't match the 780 it would've been a waste of time.


----------



## Nemessss

gtx titan ultra is coming


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nemessss*
> 
> gtx titan ultra is coming


and nvidia will probably try to release it at a price even normal titan owners will laugh at lol


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I'd like to know what kind of GPU you have, if Titan is "a hunk of garbage"? Titan is so expensive because AMD doesn't have anything like it on the market *yet*, Nvidia can slash price to half and still have good profits margins.


No they probably can't since they use their biggest die (for the Titan they might but 6GB of memory abd that huge die won't come cheap)
They'll make a profit just not good profit.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> i'd buy the titan then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but no i don't see nvidia doing that, they'll probably just speed up the release of maxwell and eol gk110


If they drop the Titan to where it costs more and performs less you still buy it...
In need of Cuda mate?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durquavian*
> 
> Proof of profit margin please. I really don't know, but seeing how it is just the fail professional card repackaged into a top tier consumer card, I doubt there is a lot of room for profit.


They do that every time use high end cards for Tesla en top tier just this time the tesla was early compared to the top tier.


----------



## Clocknut

Speaking of that. Pitcrain or 7870 is 1280-80-32-256bit @ 212mm2
glue 2 pitcrains together = 2560-160-64-512bit? = Hawaii


----------



## LongJohn

Are water blocks for new GPUs typically available on launch day?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LongJohn*
> 
> Are water blocks for new GPUs typically available on launch day?


i wish lol, ill probably be holding off on the 290x until EK releases something, i refuse to use the jet engine amd coolers after last time lol.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattGordon*
> 
> Really hoping the Hawaii line-up is cheaper and better performance. At least than maybe the 760s will drop in price and I can SLI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Also hoping the AMD stock my father owns keeps rising!


We aren't really allowed to talk stocks but your dad will probably be a very happy man the 16, 17 and 18th of October


----------



## maarten12100

What most seem to forget is that this arch might be changed enough to yield significant driver improvements over time.
That would be great if those numbers are true


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Speaking of that. Pitcrain or 7870 is 1280-80-32-256bit @ 212mm2
> glue 2 pitcrains together = 2560-160-64-512bit? = Hawaii


actually the sp count is not yet confirmed as 2560. it could be 2816 according to rumours.the rops are 48. but i was surprised to find a 512 bit memory controller in Hawaii. AMD's next gen product stack is quite competitive though all chips except Hawaii are probably rebrands with slight changes to the existing chip/card. now if their prices align to what I expect , the GPU market will have excellent choice at every price point for the next 9 - 12 months. Nvidia will have to address this new competition with price cuts on their side. good for consumers.









Hawaii XT - 550 - 600
Hawaii Pro - 400 - 450
Tahiti XTL - 300 - 350 (tweaked Tahiti with lower power and better cooler)
Tahiti Pro - 220 - 250
Curacao XT - 180 - 200 (tweaked Pitcairn with faster memory and a better cooler)
Curacao Pro - 150
Bonaire XT - 130
Bonaire Pro - 100
Oland XT - 80
Oland Pro - 60

the memory controller width starts off with 512 bit at the high end, 384 for higher mid range, 256 for lower mid range and 128 bit for entry level segments. nice progression.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> What most seem to forget is that this arch might be changed enough to yield significant driver improvements over time.
> That would be great if those numbers are true


Yep. 7xxx's performance improved like 30% since the launch-day, but then again, GCN was a brand new architecture. We can probably expect less now.


----------



## 2010rig

What makes people think that NVIDIA can't drop the 780 to $500? The 280 dropped from $650 to $500 a week after it was released thanks to AMD, so it's not unheard of.

Have you guys forgotten that the BIG dies called GF100 & GF110 were sold for $350 & $500?

GF110 & GK110 are essentially the same size, and for all we know, GK110 actually had better yields than *GF100* originally did.

I really hope these benches are true, and it spanks Titan left and right, and gives it an upper cut on its way down!

It's what I've been waiting for so 780 drops to $500 where it should be. At which point I will happily buy one.









inb4 fanboy. I buy NVIDIA due to the software I use, not because of gaming.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> What makes people think that NVIDIA can't drop the 780 to $500? The 280 dropped from $650 to $500 a week after it was released thanks to AMD, so it's not unheard of.
> 
> Have you guys forgotten that the BIG dies called GF100 & GF110 were sold for $350 & $500?
> 
> GF110 & GK110 are essentially the same size, and for all we know, GK110 actually had better yields than *GF100* originally did.
> 
> *I really hope these benches are true, and it spanks Titan left and right, and gives it an upper cut on its way down!*
> 
> It's what I've been waiting for so 780 drops to $500 where it should be. At which point I will happily buy one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 fanboy. I buy NVIDIA due to the software I use, not because of gaming.


do you reeeeaaaaaaally? really?










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> do you reeeeaaaaaaally? really?


Wut?


----------



## Atomfix

Why are there 2 news thread about the same thing? This one seems the most popular, whilst the other is still open :/


----------



## Sujeto 1

Jeez, guys i don't know what to do now, i ordered two evga 780 classified one day before this new, should i cancell my order and wait to see what happen?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sujeto 1*
> 
> Jeez, guys i don't know what to do now, i ordered two evga 780 classified one day before this new, should i cancell my order and wait to see what happen?


cancel and order the classifieds after amd drops the price imo, classifieds will still be great cards, but no point in spending maybe 100 bucks more, unless you need them right away.


----------



## Sujeto 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> cancel and order the classifieds after amd drops the price imo, classifieds will still be great cards, but no point in spending maybe 100 bucks more, unless you need them right away.


Do you think Nvidia will drop prices? they are likely to not doing do such of things rather than offer prizes or game bundles.


----------



## 6steven9

Maybe will see this elusive Titan Ultra and Gtx 790


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> nvidia optimized their fans for silence over performance, which is why the titans and 780s throttle easily, meanwhile amd just let their blower fans go full speed ahead and ended up with the ear destroyers we have today.


They throttle due to Nvidia's idiotic greenlight.
Granted Nvidia's vapour chamber is better than AMD's solution (which I still don't understand since Sapphire is AMD's #1 and has had this tech ready for 10 years)

Nvidia cards are something to weep about if you don't get around greenlight I mean thermal throttle starting at 70 degrees and clock reducements for running the fan higher no thanks Nvidia.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HanSomPa*
> 
> It's probably fake. If AMD really had a killer GPU, they'd make a whole campaign about it. Instead, they're hush hush, kinda like the 6970 launch.


They are their PR team is in overdrive not only this controlled leak to a Dice employee but specifically the Live stream of the launch.


----------



## fateswarm

This speculation belongs in the rumors threads. But oh wait. It's already posted there, why also here?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> actually the sp count is not yet confirmed as 2560. it could be 2816 according to rumours.the rops are 48. but i was surprised to find a 512 bit memory controller in Hawaii.


I'm wondering if these results might actually be the 2816 shader part, while the consumer card would be the 2560 part. A lot easier to see the 2816 part beating the Titan.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ha-Nocri*
> 
> Water or air? And what can a 780 do only on air? For sure those 1300+ results are not air, right?


It clocks and throttles pretty bad on air unless you go custom which makes it a greater card with voltage opt o 1.312V which is a lot.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> You may think that 1250 MHz clock for the memory is not very high, but that's due to wider memory bus. This is in fact 5Ghz effectives peed with a bandwidth of 320 GB/s.
> 
> The Radeon R9 290X will operate at lower clock (something between 800 to 900 MHz), It has dual-BIOS feature for a reason. Some actually call it Turbo mode. With this feature enable the card will go much higher (near 1 GHz in boost mode)


Sounds good!


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im excited to see the overclocked results, my titan easily boosts to 1202 at stock volts on non modded bios, and with modded bios and 1.3v+ it can do 1300+, if the new cards can match or beat that, then i will truly truly be impressed, especially for estimated prices of $600


For bench runs maybe.
I've been around long enough in the Titan owners thread to know that stable OC watercooled lies between 1.1GHz and 1.15GHz And even then some cards might throttle.
Stock bios sucks on Titan it just does.


----------



## Thunderclap

Well that's an impressive performance alright and it looks pletty damn promising if it's true. Funny how the "it will never beat the Titan" die-hard fans started to talk all nice about the new card from AMD and how they are impressed. You just gotta love OCN members.







Now AMD needs to price it at $599, bundle it with BF4 and they will sell like hot cakes!







I hope they don't dissapoint, I really do have faith in AMD... We'll know for sure soon enough.


----------



## 2010rig

If the price of $599 is true, and the performance is also true....

Will AMD fans say that you can get 2 7970's and outperform it, for the same price?

Will they also complain about the 100% markup from a 7970, while it's not delivering 100% better performance?

How has no one brought this up yet?


----------



## Sujeto 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Well that's an impressive performance alright and it looks pletty damn promising if it's true. Funny how the "it will never beat the Titan" die-hard fans started to talk all nice about the new card from AMD and how they are impressed. You just gotta love OCN members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now AMD needs to price it at $599, bundle it with BF4 and they will sell like hot cakes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they don't dissapoint, I really do have faith in AMD... We'll know for sure soon enough.


Remember how AMD started this race of higher prices, first 7970 shouldn't be launched at 550 $, maybe we see a new standar prices over 650 $, leaked prices never hit the exact price, always result to be 50 or 100$ over it.


----------



## Fulvin

What was the AMD's statement -"we aren't competing in the ultra enthusiast market", all about if this thing is going to beat the Titan? Makes me a bit skeptic about these alleged results.


----------



## flopper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> Well that's an impressive performance alright and it looks pletty damn promising if it's true. Funny how the "it will never beat the Titan" die-hard fans started to talk all nice about the new card from AMD and how they are impressed. You just gotta love OCN members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now AMD needs to price it at $599, bundle it with BF4 and they will sell like hot cakes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they don't dissapoint, I really do have faith in AMD... We'll know for sure soon enough.


I expected a card in between the 780/titan.
seems that is a bit better if this data holds up.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> If the price of $599 is true, and the performance is also true....
> 
> Will AMD fans say that you can get 2 7970's and outperform it, for the same price?
> 
> Will they also complain about the 100% markup from a 7970, while it's not delivering 100% better performance?
> 
> How has no one brought this up yet?


A single gpu will always be better than running two gpus, no mather how good are the drivers and how good is the scaling and performance optimized. And seeing how the new card has 4GBs of VRAM and 512-bit bus width and it performs exceptionally well at 1440P with filtrations on, it should be an obvious choice over running a crossfire setup with older slower performance cards, especially if one plans on running higher res like 1440P or an eyefinity setup.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sujeto 1*
> 
> Remember how AMD started this race of higher prices, first 7970 shouldn't be launched at 550 $, maybe we see a new standar prices over 650 $, leaked prices never hit the exact price, always result to be 50 or 100$ over it.


I'm not exactly sure that it'll be priced at $599, though I really hope it is. Even if it's at $649 it's still way better than charging $1k for a Titan like Nvidia did. And usually the prices slightly drop after the first few weeks of release, so we'll see. Nothing is certain yet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fulvin*
> 
> What was the AMD's statement -"we aren't competing in the ultra enthusiast market", all about if this thing is going to beat the Titan? Makes me a bit skeptic about these alleged results.


I start to wonder if people don't read, can't read or they can't and don't understand what they are reading. AMD said they are not planning on releasing a GPU that costs $1k like the Titan, because that is the "ultra enthusiast market", not that they won't make a higher performaning card than the Titan. So their statement is price-wise not performance-wise. In other words they won't release an $1k card, not that they won't release a card that performs like an overpriced $1k card for less...


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> lol, amd fans always get upset when nvidia users say they are glad for amd, yet they are upset when they say they dislike amd, cant ever make em happy.


To be honest most _*not all*_ Nvidia elitists bash without good reason there is only one thing I dislike more than Nvidia fanboys and that is Intel fanboys that use Cinebench to compare Intel to AMD.
Can't handle the fact that under optimized benchmarks they're being destroyed. (nevertheless my next rig will be Intel simply because they hold performance crown and have a smaller process node)


----------



## Clovertail100

Seems reasonable, now that we know this has a 512-bit bus. My initial reaction was that a 512 bus was impossible because AMD just wouldn't release a chip large enough to perform enough to utilize a memory bus this size (which would then make it even larger, right?)
Then when we found out it was true I felt it was a waste of space but, I really don't think AMD would make the move unless it was truly worthwhile. It's been a long time since we've seen a true engineering failure from AMD, despite creating new architectures from the ground-up over and over. Say what you want about their driver team, but their engineers have been pretty solid. Not just that, but they've been working with GCN for a long time and this is probably the longest they've ever had to play with an architecture without completely starting over. I'm sure they made the decision to use a 512-bit bus with confidence.

So, yeah, I think these are legitimate results. Nothing else would really make sense.


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> If the price of $599 is true, and the performance is also true....
> 
> Will AMD fans say that you can get 2 7970's and outperform it, for the same price?
> 
> Will they also complain about the 100% markup from a 7970, while it's not delivering 100% better performance?
> 
> How has no one brought this up yet?


It's fine as long as it's AMD doing but not for NVIDIA.


----------



## caenlen

I think it's legit, I mean you are only talking 3 fps faster than a Titan in one of those comparisons, honestly that is not that much, and seeing as how a 780 can be OC'd easy to match a Titan, if the 9970 or w.e its called can't be OC'd much if any... really imo the 780 still wins. dat 1.3v mod on water mmm sex.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> and then there are those of us(like me) who bought 90% of their titans used for around the price of a 780


How can you buy 90% of your titans used that can only be done if you buy 9 used and 1 retail certainly not what most people do.
One would be 100/75/50/25% depending on how much you run
2 would be 100/66.6/50
3 would be 100/75
4 would be 100

I get your point but it came out a bit wrong.


----------



## fateswarm

Question. How do we derive it's 512bit from the pic? What is the detailed process?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> A single gpu will always be better than running two gpus, no mather how good are the drivers and how good is the scaling and performance optimized. And seeing how the new card has 4GBs of VRAM and 512-bit bus width and it performs exceptionally well at 1440P with filtrations on, it should be an obvious choice over running a crossfire setup with older slower performance cards, especially if one plans on running higher res like 1440P or an eyefinity setup.


Were you around when Titan or the 780 released? If not, have fun:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1363072/various-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-reviews/0_50

Keep in mind when Titan released, frame pacing drivers weren't even announced yet, and AMD hadn't even acknowledged that MS was a real issue. Yet, that didn't stop people from "recommending" 2 7970's over and over and over again.

Just so you know, I'm well aware of these facts.


----------



## Fulvin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderclap*
> 
> I start to wonder if people don't read, can't read or they can't and don't understand what they are reading. AMD said they are not planning on releasing a GPU that costs $1k like the Titan, because that is the "ultra enthusiast market", not that they won't make a higher performaning card than the Titan. So their statement is price-wise not performance-wise. In other words they won't release $1k card, not that they won't release a card that performs like an overpriced $1k card for less...


Oh, well that makes sense. I pulled that one off of the top of my head, so it seems like I recalled it wrong.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Question. How do we derive it's 512bit from the pic? What is the detailed process?


Because the rumour source claimed such thing this should be in the rumour section until confirmed though.


----------



## Chrit

Well this certainly makes my clunge clammy.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Because the rumour source claimed such thing this should be in the rumour section until confirmed though.


Are you sure? I thought they derived it from the pic. And I was already frustrated with the lack of process, if it wasn't already obvious.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> How can you buy 90% of your titans used that can only be done if you buy 9 used and 1 retail certainly not what most people do.
> One would be 100/75/50/25% depending on how much you run
> 2 would be 100/66.6/50
> 3 would be 100/75
> 4 would be 100
> 
> I get your point but it came out a bit wrong.


well seeing as thats how many i have







you should take a look in the titan owners thread from time to time, its a wonderful place.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Are you sure? I thought they derived it from the pic. And I was already frustrated with the lack of process, if it wasn't already obvious.


The chiphell poster stated 512Bit but I would like to see the picture they allegedly derived that from.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> well seeing as thats how many i have
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you should take a look in the titan owners thread from time to time, its a wonderful place.


Are you binning them?








I use the be quite on the Titan until I got loaded with work and money became one of the thing I didn't have in abundance anymore.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Are you binning them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use the be quite on the Titan until I got loaded with work and money became one of the thing I didn't have in abundance anymore.


doing a dual system build in a caselabs double wide with quad titans in each side, i just got the latest one cuz it was a killer deal lol, brand new in box for 795 :x


----------



## Artikbot

I don't quite believe these results, but if it is indeed true, I am truly impressed for the first time in a long time, as far as computer hardware is concerned.


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> doing a dual system build in a caselabs double wide with quad titans in each side, i just got the latest one cuz it was a killer deal lol, brand new in box for 795 :x


You really made me jelly.

It's gonna take 8 year for me to get my doctorate, by then I should be working for AMD, Intel, ARM or Nvidia and be able to afford 4P Xeons with 8 watercooled top end GPU (bracket removed to achieve single slot).

Just imagine all the processing power muhahahahahaha.


----------



## wstanci3

So, the 290x in the results was on boost mode. The reference clock is ~900mhz. Not bad though. It puts it right below the Titan. Impressive results, if true.
http://videocardz.com/45837/amd-hawaii-gpu-2816-stream-processors


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> So, the 290x in the results was on boost mode. The reference clock is ~900mhz. Not bad though. It puts it right below the Titan. Impressive results, if true.
> http://videocardz.com/45837/amd-hawaii-gpu-2816-stream-processors


The GTX 780 and Titan also boost, to about 1Ghz / 1050 or even more.

They are all boost results, if they are even true.....


----------



## Clovertail100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> The 680 was faster. That's why AMD reduced the 7970 price to $479 in response.


More expensive means more performance. Gotcha!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> I think it's legit, I mean you are only talking 3 fps faster than a Titan in one of those comparisons, honestly that is not that much, and seeing as how a 780 can be OC'd easy to match a Titan, if the 9970 or w.e its called can't be OC'd much if any... really *imo* the 780 still wins. dat 1.3v mod on water mmm sex.


Much like Kepler and Tahiti, that's exactly what it will likely boil down to: opinion.

AMD will likely price this competitively though, and do so with a smaller die and competitive TDP. They're releasing this too late in the game to most peoples' money though, I think. Personally, I'll be waiting for the next die shrink.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> So, the 290x in the results was on boost mode. The reference clock is ~900mhz. Not bad though. It puts it right below the Titan. Impressive results, if true.
> http://videocardz.com/45837/amd-hawaii-gpu-2816-stream-processors


I wonder where they're getting the $650 price tag from.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Were you around when Titan or the 780 released? If not, have fun:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1363072/various-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-reviews/0_50
> 
> Keep in mind when Titan released, frame pacing drivers weren't even announced yet, and AMD hadn't even acknowledged that MS was a real issue. Yet, that didn't stop people from "recommending" 2 7970's over and over and over again.
> 
> Just so you know, I'm well aware of these facts.


because people were not happy about Nvidias cash grab, one which became blatantly obvious when they released a card just afew percentage points behind the titan for $350 less afew months later. Most people who bought the titan and defended it in that thread switched to the GTX780 when they realized just how much they got screwed over









So yeah... people had a reason to complain about the titans price.

Anyways, if AMD is smart then they will take this opportunity to do what Nvidia did to them when the 680 released and price this card lower then the competition even if it's faster and thus gain positive reviews and user acclaim which equals more sales and money... but after their HD7990 screw up i don't know just how smart these guys are at marketing their products anymore.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> because people were not happy about Nvidias cash grab, one which became blatantly obvious when they released a card just afew percentage points behind the titan for $350 less afew months later. Most people who bought the titan and defended it in that thread switched to the GTX780 when they realized just how much they got screwed over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah... people had a reason to complain about the titans price.


If you remember at all, I never liked nor do I still agree with Titan's price. I do understand why NVIDIA did what they did, doesn't mean I agree with it.

But what I'm saying is, a lot of them said you can get 2 7970's instead of a Titan, I remember you specifically said that time and time again.

Take NVIDIA out of the equation. 7970's are going for $300 now, and the R 290X latest rumor is $650. *That's a 116% price premium.*

Since you were one of the most vocal in that thread, does the same logic not apply?









I will laugh so hard if the the R290X is in fact $650.









Then reality will sink in that no 780 price drops will be coming.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> because people were not happy about Nvidias cash grab, one which became blatantly obvious when they released a card just afew percentage points behind the titan for $350 less afew months later. Most people who bought the titan and defended it in that thread switched to the GTX780 when they realized just how much they got screwed over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah... people had a reason to complain about the titans price.


You have to hand it to Nvidia for the that one tho, first release a GPU 30% faster than the competition, give it a fancy name, reviewers go mental bigging it up, Nvidia charge $1'000 for it, fans throw that money at them like young girls meeting rock stars.

Once the Hype dies down, release a similar GPU thats only a few % slower, stick the Titans cooler on it and charge $350 less. reviewers go misty eyed over that one now, and the next lot spill their wallets over Nvidia.

Its pure genius.

What happens now?

September 25'th, everyone gets a shocking reality check


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> crank the fans to 11, point some exterior fans at the cards, open air benchs, and yeah only for bench runs, which 99% of these clocks people throw around are for really, i dont run 1.3v on my titans except for benchmarks, i actually flash back to stock bios whenever im just gaming, because the stock voltage is more than enough for the clocks i use for gaming.


----------



## provost

So, voltage locked with 5+1 power phases and it would have Nvidia boost type of software with auto boost?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> You have to hand it to Nvidia for the that one tho, first release a GPU 30% faster than the competition, give it a fancy name, reviewers go mental bigging it up, Nvidia charge $1'000 for it, fans throw that money at them like young girls meeting rock stars.
> 
> Once the Hype dies down, release a similar GPU thats only a few % slower, stick the Titans cooler on it and charge $350 less. reviewers go misty eyed over that one now, and the next lot spill their wallets over Nvidia.
> 
> Its pure genius.
> 
> What happens now?
> 
> September 25'th, everyone gets a shocking reality check


----------



## revro

the benchmark is nonsense. its stock 780 and titan with 8xx mhz against a 1020mhz amd. everyone knows that your nvidia cards have boost

tough the 4gb thought is tasty









best
revro


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> the benchmark is nonsense. its stock 780 and titan with 8xx mhz against a 1020mhz amd. everyone knows that your nvidia cards have boost
> 
> tough the 4gb thought is tasty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best
> revro


Most of the times a titan boost to 1ghz


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> If you remember at all, I never liked nor do I still agree with Titan's price. I do understand why NVIDIA did what they did, doesn't mean I agree with it.
> 
> But what I'm saying is, a lot of them said you can get 2 7970's instead of a Titan, I remember you specifically said that time and time again.
> 
> Take NVIDIA out of the equation. 7970's are going for $300 now, and the R 290X latest rumor is $650. *That's a 116% price premium.*
> 
> Since you were one of the most vocal in that thread, does the same logic not apply?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will laugh so hard if the the R290X is in fact $650.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then reality will sink in that no 780 price drops will be coming.


Well if you bothered to read this thread you'd see my post which stated that i wasn't happy with the pricing of this card and that if it did come out at a $600 price tag i would be as vocal about it as i was with GK110. I don't really care if its AMD or Nvidia i'm not happy about companies overpricing their products.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> You have to hand it to Nvidia for the that one tho, first release a GPU 30% faster than the competition, give it a fancy name, reviewers go mental bigging it up, Nvidia charge $1'000 for it, fans throw that money at them like young girls meeting rock stars.
> 
> Once the Hype dies down, release a similar GPU thats only a few % slower, stick the Titans cooler on it and charge $350 less. reviewers go misty eyed over that one now, and the next lot spill their wallets over Nvidia.
> 
> What happens now?
> 
> September 25'th, everyone gets a shocking reality check


that's what disappointed me the most.


Spoiler: Small rant lol



Reviewers who are supposed to call these companies out when they do something stupid were just eating up all of Nvidias PR. Instead of calling Nvidia out of the ridiculous price of that thing they couldn't stop drooling over the metal cooler which most people throw in their case and forget. Pretty sad day for the industry in my opinion. The card had great performance but nothing we hadn't seen before (i'm talking about the jump in performance not the total performance) but it was priced stupid and reviews should have reflected that.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joa3d43*
> 
> ...re ultimate overclocks on air or water, ie 1300 MHz+, also keep in mind that there was a lot of custom GPU BIOS development that took place re NVidia 'boost' issues...and the point was made earlier that RX 290 might have a similar 'chastity belt' when they come out (given the die size, certainly a possibility).*..so it may take a bit of time to see a real 'unrestricted open class' battle involving unrestricted / liberated RX 290s...one I nevertheless look forward to*....and then there is the age-old question: apart from pricing issues, buy ??:


^^ *THIS* is OCN !!

I'm looking foward to a good AMD competitor , my 7970's are getting "long in the tooth".


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ *THIS* is OCN !!
> 
> I'm looking foward to a good AMD competitor , my 7970's are getting "long in the tooth".


don't you have like two of the best 7970s on this site?


----------



## SXRguyinMA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ *THIS* is OCN !!
> 
> I'm looking foward to a good AMD competitor , my 7970's are getting "long in the tooth".


Your 7970's are getting long in the tooth? Must be a nice feeling. My 6870's are still running strong for me. Just send me those 7970's if you don't' want them that bad


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> ...re ultimate overclocks on air or water, ie 1300 MHz+, also keep in mind that there was a lot of custom GPU BIOS development that took place re NVidia 'boost' issues...and the point was made earlier that RX 290 might have a similar 'chastity belt' when they come out (given the die size, certainly a possibility)...so it may take a bit of time to see a real 'unrestricted open class' battle involving unrestricted / liberated RX 290s...one I nevertheless look forward to....and then there is the age-old question: apart from pricing issues, buy ??:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ^^ *THIS* is OCN !!
> 
> I'm looking foward to a good AMD competitor , my 7970's are getting "long in the tooth".


apparently the R9-290X has a switch on the PCB that when used will set it free.


----------



## nz3777

How valid are those Benchmarks? I really hope thats true but I need some kind of Reliable source showing some benchmarks- If it happens to be at that level Put me down for 2 as well!~ Great time to upgrade from my dual 6970s!~ Now iam glad i waited~!


----------



## Asmodean

Believe it or not, I actually thought AMD may do something like this. They're leading the new consoles into the next gen, with their hardware. I figured they might try go balls to walls and release a desktop GPU to attempt dominance during the enterance to the next gen as well.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> For bench runs maybe.
> I've been around long enough in the Titan owners thread to know that stable OC watercooled lies between 1.1GHz and 1.15GHz And even then some cards might throttle.
> *Stock bios sucks on Titan it just does*.


very true. But you're only a flash away from getting rid of the OEM bios and much better gaming performance.


----------



## Hukkel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> A Corvette is often compared to a Ferrari if they perform similarly, regardless of price.


No it doesn't. Perhaps in straight line speed. All other ways to compere them the Corvette loses by a mile distance.

Think about it people. A die size 30% lower, yet wins in performance and is 300 € cheaper.

Ever heard of the phrase; if it sounds to good to be true....it usually is?

I want to be a believer, oh I want to be a believer, I want Nvidia to cry and get their stuck up heads out of their behinds. But I cannot believe this. I just cannot.
The architecture would need to be crazy good. As in a leap of technology.

No sorry, I don't buy this.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> very true. But you're only a flash away from getting rid of the OEM bios and much better gaming performance.


I know the TI bios and the 1.312V software mod show the true potential of the Titan.


----------



## nz3777

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asmodean*
> 
> Believe it or not, I actually thought AMD may do something like this. They're leading the new consoles into the next gen, with their hardware. I figured they might try go balls to walls and release a desktop GPU to attempt dominance during the enterance to the next gen as well.


This sounds to be the truth! Good for them! And unless you take a chance we would have Nvidia and Intel dictating prices for the next 10 years or so..... Never a better time to be Red~! I say hell yeah!


----------



## flippin_waffles

It looks 'extremely efficient'.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hukkel*
> 
> No it doesn't. Perhaps in straight line speed. All other ways to compere them the Corvette loses by a mile distance.
> 
> Think about it people. A die size 30% lower, yet wins in performance and is 300 € cheaper.
> 
> Ever heard of the phrase; if it sounds to good to be true....it usually is?
> 
> I want to be a believer, oh I want to be a believer, I want Nvidia to cry and get their stuck up heads out of their behinds. But I cannot believe this. I just cannot.
> The architecture would need to be crazy good. As in a leap of technology.
> 
> No sorry, I don't buy this.


Hukkel I'm a bit sceptic too but in terms of die size it is quite possible the Nvidia gk110 cards are using locked down dies if you were to cut of most of the locked stuff you could end up with such a die.
I believe the 512 bit bus when I see it but it would certainly be a nice card.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hukkel*
> 
> No it doesn't. Perhaps in straight line speed. All other ways to compere them the Corvette loses by a mile distance.
> 
> Think about it people. A die size 30% lower, yet wins in performance and is 300 € cheaper.
> 
> Ever heard of the phrase; if it sounds to good to be true....it usually is?
> 
> I want to be a believer, oh I want to be a believer, I want Nvidia to cry and get their stuck up heads out of their behinds. But I cannot believe this. I just cannot.
> The architecture would need to be crazy good. As in a leap of technology.
> 
> No sorry, I don't buy this.


Making bigger chip with more compute units, with more ROPs and TMUs is far from being revolutionary. Nvidia did really revolutionary step at time of Fermi, while AMD did similar step with GCN architercture.

This really does not look "too good".


----------



## Hukkel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> If you remember at all, I never liked nor do I still agree with Titan's price. I do understand why NVIDIA did what they did, doesn't mean I agree with it.
> 
> But what I'm saying is, a lot of them said you can get 2 7970's instead of a Titan, I remember you specifically said that time and time again.
> 
> Take NVIDIA out of the equation. 7970's are going for $300 now, and the R 290X latest rumor is $650. *That's a 116% price premium.*
> 
> Since you were one of the most vocal in that thread, does the same logic not apply?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will laugh so hard if the the R290X is in fact $650.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then reality will sink in that no 780 price drops will be coming.


Do you remember the price of the HD7970 at launch?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I wonder where they're getting the $650 price tag from.


From themselves? Price point for the 290 is not yet public and rumors... are just that. $650 or lower would be perfect.

Although I would like to see AMD release a high priced "uber" card and set a new high-water mark.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I wonder where they're getting the $650 price tag from.


You can thank NVidia for inflating the prices.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> *apparently the R9-290X has a switch on the PCB that when used will set it free*.


ahh, nice. Love switches.

one of these days, the VGA OEMs will realize we (I ?) want a vga card with an open bios, gpu socket and COMPONENT CONFIGURATION !! Not 15 SKUs they can milk us with.

Where's that third company? With the right team, VCs might get behind this.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> You can thank NVidia for inflating the prices.


No, you can thank economics. If competition is lacking in a price bracket, then the company that can inflate the prices can. You can thank AMD for not offering any new products for consumers itching for an upgrade. Simply business.
Edit: Hopefully since they are releasing new products, and these results are valid, then competition will be renewed. Let's hope.


----------



## nz3777

I think if the Launch price is $600- $650 and the card is as fast as they claim Nvidia might need to re-think their options, But thats better for us~ They go to war we get the spoils of war! I even read in Maximum Pc Nvidia and Amd either of them can have the Fastest Card at any given time! Whats the Exact release date of these bad-boys???


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nz3777*
> 
> I think if the Launch price is $600- $650 and the card is as fast as they claim Nvidia might need to re-think their options, But thats better for us~ They go to war we get the spoils of war! I even read in Maximum Pc Nvidia and Amd either of them can have the Fastest Card at any given time! Whats the Exact release date of these bad-boys???


The expected reveal is the 25th of September. I think a good projected release would be early to mid October.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> apparently the R9-290X has a switch on the PCB that when used will set it free.


Dual BIOS FTW.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hukkel*
> 
> *No it doesn't. Perhaps in straight line speed. All other ways to compere them the Corvette loses by a mile distance.*
> 
> Think about it people. A die size 30% lower, yet wins in performance and is 300 € cheaper.
> 
> Ever heard of the phrase; if it sounds to good to be true....it usually is?
> 
> I want to be a believer, oh I want to be a believer, I want Nvidia to cry and get their stuck up heads out of their behinds. But I cannot believe this. I just cannot.
> The architecture would need to be crazy good. As in a leap of technology.
> 
> No sorry, I don't buy this.


uh - BS. Check the Nurburgring lap times for stock configurations and watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o

turn up the volume!


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> uh - BS. Check the Nurburgring lap times for stock configurations and watch this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o
> 
> turn up the volume!


Yep, I was going to point out the same thing. The new Corvette beasts everything. But if money was no issue I would still buy a Ferrari due to build quality alone.


----------



## Fulvin

Remember the time when flagship cards cost half of what they do today?

Pepperidge farm remembers.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> It looks 'extremely efficient'.


hopefully they make TressFx more optimized. It added alot to TombRaider but the FPS cost was silly.


----------



## Thunderclap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hukkel*
> 
> No it doesn't. Perhaps in straight line speed. All other ways to compere them the Corvette loses by a mile distance.
> 
> Think about it people. A die size 30% lower, yet wins in performance and is 300 € cheaper.
> 
> Ever heard of the phrase; if it sounds to good to be true....it usually is?
> 
> I want to be a believer, oh I want to be a believer, I want Nvidia to cry and get their stuck up heads out of their behinds. But I cannot believe this. I just cannot.
> The architecture would need to be crazy good. As in a leap of technology.
> 
> No sorry, I don't buy this.


Oh really? Is that why both the Corvette ZR1 and Z06 are faster on Nürburgring than the fastest Ferrari on there, the Enzo? And that is one of the most, if not the most, technical tracks on Earth. Not to mention both of the ZR1 and Z06 are more than halfway cheaper than the Enzo, and still beast in every way, like the rest of the Ferraris. So why do you think that the R9 290X won't beat the Titan? The thing is the Enzo is an "exclusive" car just like the GTX Titan is in the GPU market. It's not really the best thing out there (both the GTX 690 and HD 7990 destroy it, which aftermarket GTX 780 also do, and yes I know the 690 and 7990 are dual GPUs but that still counts, it's a single videocard), but people still buy them for the fancy name and just for the e-peen of having "the best out there" while in reality it's not the best out there. In my opinion, and I this is strictly my opinion, the Titan was just an ludicrous card, and not in a good way either. It's just a card reserved for PC enthusiast elitists, or as AMD said "ultra enthusist market", and I don't see a point in buying one except for the ability to say you have the "latest and greatest" in the market. Does it make sense to pay top dollar for the best GPU out there? Hell YES. Does it make sense to pay top dollar for an ludicrously overpriced GPU out there that doesn't really bring anything groundbreaking to the market? Hell NO. So what, if AMD comes out with the R9 290X and they really beat the Titan, what's the next move from Nvidia, release a GTX Titan Ultra for $1.5k? As I said, absolutely ludicrous... To the guys that have money growing on trees, congrats, feel free to buy fancy named cards like the GTX Titan, GTX Titan Ultra, GTX Titan Ultra Over 9000 Edition, etc. I'll just wait a little longer for cards like the GTX 780 and R9 290X which are on its heels or better than it and still are way cheaper. So yeah, that's my 2¢.

/rant


----------



## karamel

Benchmarks are probably true, but what it matters is price. 650$ is too pricey for a flagship card, if you think you can find HD7970's for 300$ now. I think flagship Hawaii will have 550$ price point just like HD7970's release price.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> No, you can thank economics. If competition is lacking in a price bracket, then the company that can inflate the prices can. You can thank AMD for not offering any new products for consumers itching for an upgrade. Simply business.
> Edit: Hopefully since they are releasing new products, and these results are valid, then competition will be renewed. Let's hope.


Perhaps we should blame investors and bankers then?

Who is it that is out in forums driving hype and 'brainwashing' tech sites into justifying the $1000 price tag? If you don't think NV's PR team is out in forums driving that hype all over the internet then I'm not sure you see the big picture.

Where's Ryan Shrouts in depth analysis on how the titan has been grossly overpriced and just a money grab. Any sane person can see that.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> Perhaps we should blame investors and bankers then?
> 
> Who is it that is out in forums driving hype and 'brainwashing' tech sites into justifying the $1000 price tag? If you don't think NV's PR team is out in forums driving that hype all over the internet then I'm not sure you see the big picture.
> 
> Where's Ryan Shrouts in depth analysis on how the titan has been grossly overpriced and just a money grab. Any sane person can see that.


And the Titan outpaced NV's sales projections too? Go figure. (but they were and still are amazing cards! at 4K the extra vram does help)


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karamel*
> 
> Benchmarks are probably true, but what it matters is price. 650$ is too pricey for a flagship card, if you think you can find HD7970's for 300$ now. I think flagship Hawaii will have 550$ price point just like HD7970's release price.


Because, you know, inflation doesn't exist.


----------



## raghu78

AMD needs to price this card at USD 550 - 600. USD 650 would be a letdown and might I say a failure. I say failure because as time goes by we expect faster products at lower prices. USD 600 would be taking the safe route. USD 550 would be very good. But given that AMD will be bundling BF4 i think USD 600 looks the most probable.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ahh, nice. Love switches.
> 
> one of these days, the VGA OEMs will realize we (I ?) want a vga card with an open bios, gpu socket and COMPONENT CONFIGURATION !! Not 15 SKUs they can milk us with.
> 
> Where's that third company? With the right team, VCs might get behind this.


This will be a bad time for people like you (and me) since they will integrate more and more the fact we don't know what gpu/cpu context switch will truly mean makes it even more scary.
I hope for the age of co-processors that work universal but I fear for a single die holding north/south bridges cpu gpu and possible even the memory.
All in a BGA only solution
Who knows what nightmare we have created.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> The GTX 780 and Titan also boost, to about 1Ghz / 1050 or even more.
> 
> They are all boost results, if they are even true.....


Ok fine say they are Boost. whats the Temperature ceiling, Fan ceiling? These cards don't run at a binary boost ceiling without factoring the other limiting metrics.

Unless we see temp settings / ceilings etc and other factors... who the hell knows where these figures came from. I'd love to see the line chart from EVGA Precision X showing clock sustained from all cards then the sites data could be taken with 2 less grains of salt. Reputable review sites talk to all of this on both sides of the coin for both product lines AMD and Nvidia.

P.S.
@Majon...Staring at my Titan in my sig, Please.


----------



## lugal

Funny how value to which nvidias boost suddenly became important considering how "irrelevant" it was in most comparisons since kepler launch.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> This will be a bad time for people like you (and me) since they will integrate more and more the fact we don't know what gpu/cpu context switch will truly mean makes it even more scary.
> I hope for the age of co-processors that work universal but I fear for a single die holding north/south bridges cpu gpu and possible even the memory.
> All in a BGA only solution
> Who knows what nightmare we have created.


I know, for mainstream the all-in-one package is where this is going (just look at apple... well, except for iOS7, what a load of crap. iPad/phone looks like a gameboy. Just when blackberry is about to fold, Apple launches the Fischer-Price OS...yes, Steve is dead).

DIY enthusiasts can't go extinct!


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> ahh, nice. Love switches.
> 
> one of these days, the VGA OEMs will realize we (I ?) want a vga card with an open bios, gpu socket and COMPONENT CONFIGURATION !! Not 15 SKUs they can milk us with.
> 
> Where's that third company? With the right team, VCs might get behind this.


Edit


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Ok fine say they are Boost. whats the Temperature ceiling, Fan ceiling? These cards don't run at a binary boost ceiling without factoring the other limiting metrics.
> 
> Unless we see temp settings / ceilings etc and other factors... who the hell knows where these figures came from. I'd love to see the line chart from EVGA Precision X showing clock sustained from all cards then the sites data could be taken with 2 less grains of salt. Reputable review sites talk to all of this on both sides of the coin for both product lines AMD and Nvidia.
> 
> P.S.
> @Majon...Staring at my Titan in my sig, Please.


Seeing as how this is a rumor, I would not worry much about what the details are. Let the people who believe this 100% have their fun. We really won't have a great understanding of these cards until they hit OCN.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> You might have VCs confused for someone like a founder Angel investor who might have made a ton of money from previous spin offs and now wants to get behind a concept due to the sheer passion of it. VCs are already behind the two biggies, and may be that's the issue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you are describing needs a "real angel investor" who does not care about maximizing profits


VCs are out as soon as possible after the Co goes public. Sure a single AI can seed it, but usually not sustainable unless there is a personal commitment - but they too have limited patience. All will reach deep into your pockets when red goes black, ..they all do!


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> Perhaps we should blame investors and bankers then?
> 
> Who is it that is out in forums driving hype and 'brainwashing' tech sites into justifying the $1000 price tag? If you don't think NV's PR team is out in forums driving that hype all over the internet then I'm not sure you see the big picture.
> 
> Where's Ryan Shrouts in depth analysis on how the titan has been grossly overpriced and just a money grab. Any sane person can see that.


I want you to reread my post. At no point did I state nor insinuate that the Titan's price is justifiable. It is absolutely ridiculous. But people are still willing to pay the price. The only reason Nvidia offered that product at that price is *simply because they could.* This is not about brainwashing. Any enthusiast who appreciates price/performance sees the Titan as ludicrous for what it offers.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Seeing as how this is a rumor, I would not worry much about what the details are. Let the people who believe this 100% have their fun. *We really won't have a great understanding of these cards until they hit OCN*.


^^ This.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> And the Titan outpaced NV's sales projections too? Go figure. (but they were and still are amazing cards! at 4K the extra vram does help)


That doesn't address the issue of tech sites playing their part in driving demand.

Are you forgetting the ridiculous propaganda about how the 7970 was outrageously overpriced! OMG there was forum topic after forum topic about







_why is the 7970 so overpriced!_







. I'm sure I remember an article or 2 on the subject as well.

Now we have the *titan* ~%30 faster than the 7970 Gz and that somehow justifies a >%100 price gouge? %150 in some cases? Ridiculous. *titan* isn't more than a $500 card, as the 680/770 should be priced at Tahiti's level maybe lower.

Like I said, a lot of blame goes to supposedly professional tech websites for playing along with the charade and not insisting that price be lowered.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> VCs are out as soon as possible after the Co goes public. Sure a single AI can seed it, but usually not sustainable unless there is a personal commitment - but they too have limited patience. All will reach deep into your pockets when red goes black, ..they all do!


Edit


----------



## Moustache

VDC got something new. http://videocardz.com/45837/amd-hawaii-gpu-2816-stream-processors


----------



## HeadlessKnight

It doesn't really matter what the clocks, ceiling, temperatures as long as the cards are running at *stock* . It is pathetic to dig for reasons like that really... there is no one to blame for this here but Nvidia themselves who handicapped their cards at stock clocks.
If those benchmarks are any true. I think the 290X will be a very impressive card to match the Titan at stock clocks. Even if the Titan edged it out slightly after OC it doesn't matter to me, It still if the 290X is priced $650, it will be 35% cheaper than Titan... will cost as much as the 780 while being about 15% faster ... and most importantly will have 1 GB extra VRAM, and higher bandwidth for Eyefinity and ultra resolutions than both of these two.


----------



## jojoenglish85

I started with AMD with the 6XXX series, moved to Nvidia with their 6XX series, was not impressed enough with AMD's 7XXX series in the slightest to make me budge plus the prices were outrageous. Was not impressed enough with Nvidia's 7XX series. This time around, AMD has me excited, so regaurdless ill be making the move to AMD this year with these new cards.


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> That doesn't address the issue of tech sites playing their part in driving demand.
> 
> Are you forgetting the ridiculous propaganda about how the 7970 was outrageously overpriced! OMG there was forum topic after forum topic about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _why is the 7970 so overpriced!_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'm sure I remember an article or 2 on the subject as well.
> 
> Now we have the *titan* ~%30 faster than the 7970 Gz and that somehow justifies a >%100 price gouge? %150 in some cases? Ridiculous. *titan* isn't more than a $500 card, as the 680/770 should be priced at Tahiti's level maybe lower.
> 
> Like I said, a lot of blame goes to supposedly professional tech websites for playing along with the charade and not insisting that price be lowered.


Not sure where you are getting the 30% faster from. Anyway, I'm running each (concurrently) in two card config - empirically the titan sli is waaaay faster. Until R2xx is launched that is.









See:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> It doesn't really matter what the clocks, ceiling, temperatures as long as the cards are running at *stock* . It is pathetic to dig for reasons like that really... there is no one to blame for this here but Nvidia themselves who handicapped their cards at stock clocks.
> If those benchmarks are any true. I think the 290X will be a very impressive card to match the Titan at stock clocks. Even if the Titan edged it out slightly after OC it doesn't matter to me, It is still the 290X if priced $600 will be 68% cheaper Titan, 8% cheaper than 780 and most importantly has 1 GB extra VRAM, and higher bandwidth for Eyefinity and ultra resolutions than both of those two.


How did you do your math if $600 is 68% cheaper than $1000?


----------



## Jpmboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> Pretty much true, except some stick around in nominal capacity after the company goes public in case there is a chance of second bite at the apple, one way or another
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does sound like you have this creature figured out from a personal experience.


I don't think anyone has this creature figured out!


----------



## Jack Mac

So glad we're getting some progression here, PC market has been stale for way too long.


----------



## nz3777

Amd Vs Nvidia Kinda reminds me of- George Foreman vs Ali~ 2 giant names going neck to neck, both packing power in their own way! Iam actually kinda suprised a 3rd company hasnt come along to try and take a piece of the cake you know?! There is a HUGE market in the Video cards department and alot of money to be made, who knows we might just see a new company Pop-up out of nowhere,what do you guys think?


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> How did you do your math if $600 is 68% cheaper than $1000?


(1000 / 600) - 1 * 100 = 66.7% ~ 67%.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nz3777*
> 
> Amd Vs Nvidia Kinda reminds me of- George Foreman vs Ali~ 2 giant names going neck to neck, both packing power in their own way! Iam actually kinda suprised a 3rd company hasnt come along to try and take a piece of the cake you know?! There is a HUGE market in the Video cards department and alot of money to be made, who knows we might just see a new company Pop-up out of nowhere,what do you guys think?


Intel is trying to









Edit: First they integrated intel HD graphics into every CPU they are selling, then they made some "market share reviews" saying "Oh look, 60 percent of all PC sold last year had intel graphics", while they were not taking into account how many users were actually using them.

Edit2: So I started to ask people who are preferring Intel if they have heard about Heterogenous computing and OpenCL. Some said "yes I did, i tried some GPU accelerated video decoder and it was crappy". So I asked them to try AMD and their integraded graphics which when counting CPU+GPU performance are much better, but reply was like "nono, its CPU performance what matters". At that point arguing that gpus have about 1000x more processing power as any CPU for some types of computing became pointless.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> (1000 / 600) - 1 * 100 = 66.7% ~ 67%.


That means 1000 is 66.7% more expensive than 600. 1.67x600 = 1000

It's not true the other way around.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> VDC got something new. http://videocardz.com/45837/amd-hawaii-gpu-2816-stream-processors


If the memory is 1.125GHz i hoe it can OC past 1.5GHz.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> I don't think anyone has this creature figured out!


ROFL


----------



## nz3777

Yeah I heard the gpu side of things Haswell has Improved by a big margin! Thats ok the more they compete the better it is for us I wanna say.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jpmboy*
> 
> Not sure where you are getting the 30% faster from. Anyway, I'm running each (concurrently) in two card config - empirically the titan sli is waaaay faster. Until R2xx is launched that is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See:
> 
> http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html


Whaaat? NV is basing their prices off of _passmark_?


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Intel is trying to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: First they integrated intel HD graphics into every CPU they are selling, then they made some "market share reviews" saying "Oh look, 60 percent of all PC sold last year had intel graphics", while they were not taking into account how many users were actually using them.


Failing miserably though
They process advantage couldn't even make them achieve.


----------



## Timeofdoom

OCN: Cars = GPU's.
Good day to all.


----------



## rajeeves

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> (1000 / 600) - 1 * 100 = 66.7% ~ 67%.


You can say that the new card is 600/1000*100=60% as expensive as the titan. Or you can say that the new card is (1000/600)/1000*100=40% cheaper than the titan. But I have no idea what you calculated there.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> VDC got something new. http://videocardz.com/45837/amd-hawaii-gpu-2816-stream-processors


hope it will have 48 ROP's. 44 is not an increase at all if it has 2.8k SP's


----------



## Moragg

No new information - we "know" the Hawaii chip will have 2.8K SPs, but don't know how many the R9 290X will get.

It's amusing though, we'll get the specs in 3 days, then a few weeks later we'll get benchmarks, a few weeks after that we'll get ifo from other OCNers, and after all that it better not need a modded bios. I can't believe people won't be OCing these, AMD will have a tactical victory if they don't cripple these like NVIDIA crippled GK110.


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rajeeves*
> 
> You can say that the new card is 600/1000*100=60% as expensive as the titan. Or you can say that the new card is (1000/600)/1000*100=40% cheaper than the titan. But I have no idea what you calculated there.


its called picking the reference point. If AMD Hawaii XT is USD 600, then Titan is 66.66% costlier wrt Hawaii XT.conversely you can say Hawaii XT is 40% cheaper compared to Titan.


----------



## Ghoxt

When we talk Fastest GPU on OCN, the only thing I'm concerned about is the upper limit of the card(s) with minor soft tweaking that we can do for 24/7 stability , ie firmware/bios mod etc (No LN2)

If the R9 280X is faster than the OCN tweaked Titan 1300 / 1.3V stable, then hats off and Kudos to all the AMD faithful seriously. I don't care what the cost is, I'll give props to AMD all day for pushing the competition.


----------



## Yungbenny911

I'll keep my opinions till i see them here on OCN







. Guy's here really showcase the performance of a GPU. Oh well.... it's called overclock.net for a reason







.

This might be the first AMD GPU i buy, so i can overclock the hell out of it. I always overclock the hell out of all my GPU's


----------



## NateST

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> No new information - we "know" the Hawaii chip will have 2.8K SPs, but don't know how many the R9 290X will get.
> 
> It's amusing though, we'll get the specs in 3 days, then a few weeks later we'll get benchmarks, a few weeks after that we'll get ifo from other OCNers, and after all that it better not need a modded bios. I can't believe people won't be OCing these, AMD will have a tactical victory if they don't cripple these like NVIDIA crippled GK110.


I can't wait for the 25th, I love new hardware. I feel that saying AMD would have a tactical victory because GK110 is volt limited is a little outlandish considering we have unlimited voltage control as it is now. This shaping up to be some good competition if these spec hold up.


----------



## FredNotFound404

Weird tho I'm running 1600p and my OC 670 gets 50-60FPS in BF3 with 2x MSAA, how is the titan only getting 67 fps with 4x MSAA at 1600p?


----------



## Moustache

new picture!


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> (1000 / 600) - 1 * 100 = 66.7% ~ 67%.


I'm very week in math.


----------



## iatacs19

What's the best guess on the price guys?


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateST*
> 
> I can't wait for the 25th, I love new hardware. I feel that saying AMD would have a tactical victory because GK110 is volt limited is a little outlandish considering we have unlimited voltage control as it is now. This shaping up to be some good competition if these spec hold up.


A small tactical victory in a much larger strategic war. I doubt most buyers would realise the modded bios exists, and if they learned of it and though "AMD - sameish performance, no modding necessary, cheaper" then with the game bundle I'd imagine AMD is the better choice. Assuming the drivers have been sorted out 100%.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> ALATAR ....


http://www.overclock.net/t/1363440/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-owners-club/15450_50#post_20844924

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baghi*
> 
> I'm very week in math.


Lol Are you? Then I am very month in math...


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1363440/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-owners-club/15450_50#post_20844924
> Lol Are you? Then I am very month in math...


I'll learn with the passage of time, in an *ear* or so I'll figure out what you did few posts ago.


----------



## rcfc89

Lol at most people here hoping that this causes a drop in Nvidia's prices. Bottom line is most don't want to mess with Amd and all there x-fire driver problems at high resolutions.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Lol at most people here hoping that this causes a drop in Nvidia's prices. Bottom line is most don't want to mess with Amd and all there x-fire driver problems at high resolutions.


Lol. Because soooo many people will need to CFX an R9 290X if it performs as well as the hype suggests.

And wouldn't a new series mean new drivers?


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Lol at most people here hoping that this causes a drop in Nvidia's prices. Bottom line is most don't want to mess with Amd and all there x-fire driver problems at high resolutions.


Have you ever actually owned crossfire? It's fine for the most part with the new drivers, I have 6850 CF in a backup computer.


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Lol at most people here hoping that this causes a drop in Nvidia's prices. Bottom line is most don't want to mess with Amd and all there *x-fire driver problems* at high resolutions.


Hypocrisy at it's best.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Lol at most people here hoping that this causes a drop in Nvidia's prices. Bottom line is most don't want to mess with Amd and all there x-fire driver problems at high resolutions.


I would guesstimate that the eyefinity pacing drivers will be out when these are launched. I am sure we will also hear about r9's being frame paced OTB. But we will see come wed.


----------



## NateST

I feel small strategic war a better way to look at it, if you consider how much of these cards as a percentage don't make up much volume in overall sales in comparison to the mid range segment. I would also imagine people that don't know GK110 doesn't have a custom BIOS probably don't care tp much in over clocking to begin with anyway. Consider as well AMD began to voltage lock their cards. It could be the same situation as nvidia where you need a soft mod or bios to over volt. Honestly if this is priced @ $600 with unlocked or soft moddable voltage and the specs are true AMD has a real winner till Maxwell


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Question. How do we derive it's 512bit from the pic? What is the detailed process?


16 VRAM chips, they are 32 bit each.
Count the number of VRAM chips on your card and then divide by bus width and you get what i mean
So it's legit
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The chiphell poster stated 512Bit but I would like to see the picture they allegedly derived that from.


A 384-bit bus width card has 12 chips. 12*32. This has 16
It's true unless you're stupid or something.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> VRAM chips, they are 32 bit each.


Have you got a source of this? I'm not judging, I'm genuinely interested in the technical info.


----------



## jeffro37

I still don't think it would be wise to sell at $650 like the other thread says. If it is priced the same as a 780, most would still get the 780 just because of reputation alone. If AMD were to sell it at $550-600 then they might sell more. Just my thinking tho.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Have you got a source of this? I'm not judging, I'm genuinely interested in the technical info.


16 chips/ 512bit interface = 32 bit. Tahini had 12 32bit for 384bit interface.


----------



## fateswarm

Don't panic too much about 650 (if it's true at all). History has proven they usually end up much lower a month or two later. Well at least that's what happened with various GPUs the past 2 years though it's never certain what will happen.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> 16 chips/ 512bit interface = 32 bit. Tahini had 12 32bit for 384bit interface.


That's not conclusive. Is that the only VRAM type available? Also I wonder, do the GPUs support any width the 'VRAM times its chips' is capable?


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fulvin*
> 
> Remember the time when flagship cards cost half of what they do today?
> 
> Pepperidge farm remembers.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> That's not conclusive. Is that the only VRAM type available? Also I wonder, do the GPUs support any width the 'VRAM times its chips' is capable?


If previous bus width was calculated like that then this is most likely 512-bit. Not having a power of 2 would be very weird, and possibly more expensive to manufacture/have performance costs. It would also take R&D.

If the pics are true it's a very safe bet that this is 512-bit. We won't get any conclusive proof on much till the 25th,


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> If previous bus width was calculated like that then this is most likely 512-bit. Not having a power of 2 would be very weird, and possibly more expensive to manufacture/have performance costs. It would also take R&D.
> 
> If the pics are true it's a very safe bet that this is 512-bit. We won't get any conclusive proof on much till the 25th,


I still wonder if the GPU is capable of it though. Like the 16-lane mainstream CPUs with a motherboard doing 16x+16x. Or even if the GPU itself can do it, if the board's circuitry is capable of it, though that's extremely likely.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> Please return to the days of $200 - $300 enthusiast cards ( ie radeon 9700pro).


= $260-390









http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Probably because recent AMD blower coolers have been less than optimally quiet. Or, in plain speak, they are loud.


The fan curves are more aggressive and they don't let the cards heat up as much as Nvidia does.

If you compare across price segments then of course Nvidia is quieter *because the TDP is lower* (i.e. GTX 760 vs HD 7950).

----
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Seeing as how this is a rumor, I would not worry much about what the details are. Let the people who believe this 100% have their fun. We really won't have a great understanding of these cards until they hit OCN.


this...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moustache*
> 
> 
> 
> new picture!


link to article?


----------



## hotrod717

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffro37*
> 
> I still don't think it would be wise to sell at $650 like the other thread says. If it is priced the same as a 780, most would still get the 780 just because of reputation alone. If AMD were to sell it at $550-600 then they might sell more. Just my thinking tho.


I'd have to disagree. It seems to me, there is a lot less fanboi-ism and more people looking for best performance. A lot of people also like to have the latest and greatest. If these rumors are true, I believe the 780's "reputation" won't keep anybody from buying a 290x. Do we not know that it will be the 9970? I guess not until it's officially announced.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I still wonder if the GPU is capable of it though. Like the 16-lane mainstream CPUs with a motherboard doing 16x+16x. Or even if the GPU itself can do it, if the board's circuitry is capable of it, though that's extremely likely.


capable of what? Dont understand where you are going with pcie lanes since were talking vram. 512bit is all but confimed as 32 bit gddr5 chips are the most cost/power efficient variety. This is why you see the 680/770 @ 8 chips: 2gb with 32 bit each. 64 bit chips do exists as do 16 but actual mem per chip varies.


----------



## fateswarm

By the way. The site that leaked the photos is now down, 404. I hope they weren't fakes (not that I'd be surprised).


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotrod717*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jeffro37*
> 
> I still don't think it would be wise to sell at $650 like the other thread says. If it is priced the same as a 780, most would still get the 780 just because of reputation alone. If AMD were to sell it at $550-600 then they might sell more. Just my thinking tho.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd have to disagree. It seems to me, there is a lot less fanboi-ism and more people looking for best performance. A lot of people also like to have the latest and greatest. If these rumors are true, I believe the 780's "reputation" won't keep anybody from buying a 290x. Do we not know that it will be the 9970? I guess not until it's officially announced.
Click to expand...

I agree with your disagreement. 1GB more RAM, a 33% wider bus, support for 4-way crossfire, not 3-way SLI (or Nvidia's cheating to get you to buy a Titan), and roughly 15% better performance. Only a fanboy would NOT consider this at the same or even a slightly higher price. Now, when the GTX 880 gets released, things will change, but for now, AMD will be the go-to guy for top-tier performance assuming the rumors are true.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> By the way. The site that leaked the photos is now down, 404. I hope they weren't fakes (not that I'd be surprised).


Would be the best pcb fake ever conceived. I wouldnt get to startled.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> By the way. The site that leaked the photos is now down, 404. I hope they weren't fakes (not that I'd be surprised).


It's the internet. The site may go down, but the pictures will live forever.


----------



## fateswarm

The variables affecting Hype VS Performance purchases are two: 1. If one can afford anything he may buy anything on hype and if he does not buy on hype he may be restricted on budget. 2. Insanity.


----------



## Accuracy158

I have my hopes up that this true. Stronger competition between AMD and nvidia would be great. ...No more of this nonsense where nvidia launch a GTX 680 just to maintain status quo.


----------



## Regent Square

But everyone forgot the frame time/ render time problems encountered with AMD drivers. If that is the case with their new Hawaii then people are more likely to switch back to 780s. On the performance side, NV dudes abandoned the ship.


----------



## xoleras

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> But everyone forgot the frame time/ render time problems encountered with AMD drivers. If that is the case with their new Hawaii then people are more likely to switch back to 780s. On the performance side, NV dudes abandoned the ship.


Those problems are basically solved except in eyefinity crossfire configurations. Frame pacing is not an issue with single screen resolutions and cross fire any longer.

That said, AMD does need to step up and get crossfire eyefinity fixed in that respect. But in other configurations, it is now and has been a non issue.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> But everyone forgot the frame time/ render time problems encountered with AMD drivers. If that is the case with their new Hawaii then people are more likely to switch back to 780s. On the performance side, NV dudes abandoned the ship.


The twist of irony is that someone being randomly accused of being an NVIDIA shill, recently exposed that the new AMD drivers are very good against microstuttering, at least for most sub-1440p setups. It pretty much lowered to the point of almost having a single card which makes one more hopeful about going back to a multi-GPU setup in general.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> But everyone forgot the frame time/ render time problems encountered with AMD drivers. If that is the case with their new Hawaii then people are more likely to switch back to 780s. On the performance side, NV dudes abandoned the ship.


I spent last two years with my HD7870 and later HD7970. I was criticizing (and I am continually doint it) the drivers when it was certain that there is some sort of trouble.

a) On Catalyst 13.4 DX9 flickering was fixed
b) Since 13.5 performance on frame latency is getting a lot better, latest beta 13.10 is very good in these matter.

Trust me when I say that quality of the driver got improved in last year and half, but I believe there is some things to fix...


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

according to the post on chphell, the gpu he tested is an es. Real card might vary in amout of shader, clock, etc.

The author seemed very confident that the resultaps he posted are real to the best of his knowledge.

Unless the real card ship withparts turned off compared to The es, the performance level is above titan.

Keep in mind he is the same person who said it would use 6 phase vrm, kill the titan a while ago. Remember That pic of the new radeon beating a stock Titan'S score in 3d mark a while ago? He posted that.

Edit: he also claimed that his nda is up.


----------



## Moustache

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> link to article?


Not an article http://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=862351&pid=19672844


----------



## kingduqc

So many people are biting their own word from 2 weeks ago.

"Ugggh, it will *NEVER* _BE_ AS CLOSE TO A 780"

I just hope it's true

5% over titan, 400$ cheaper and 3-4 free games including bf4 and watch dogs?? That's what I'm talking about!... I'll still wait real benchmark to know the real story, you never know about "leaks"


----------



## Razor 116

Smaller Die, Lower power and superior to a Titan whuile still on 28nm and an estimated price lower than a GTX 780, well if all this is true congratulations AMD


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> So many people are biting their own word from 2 weeks ago.
> 
> "Ugggh, it will *NEVER* _BE_ AS CLOSE TO A 780
> 
> I just hope it's true
> 
> 5% over titan


Careful, you might still bite it.

And I doubt it beats the titan, unless it beats it in mining worthless coins.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Careful, you might still bite it.
> 
> And I doubt it beats the titan, unless it beats it in mining worthless coins.


I don't know, I will just find it really funny if it's true. Not really ready to replace my gpu until 20 nm so I'm not so interested but i'd love to see em going into a price war.


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> We shall see. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if true. After all, Titan has been out for 7 months now. I would hope that the next generation of the AMD video card could beat a card that has been out for 7 months. That really isn't all that impressive a beating anyway (since the Titan still beats the 290X in several categories).


Interesting that you say that, I found it amusing that people were so impressed by the Titan when in reality it was released *over* a year after the 7970 and people were impressed by just how much the Titan beat the 7970. If these people got so excited for the Titan logically they should be excited by almost a factor of two for the R9 290x. But that won't happen because it's AMD amirite.


----------



## LongJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i wish lol, ill probably be holding off on the 290x until EK releases something, i refuse to use the jet engine amd coolers after last time lol.


Dang, okay thanks.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Interesting that you say that, I found it amusing that people were so impressed by the Titan when in reality it was released *over* a year after the 7970 and people were impressed by just how much the Titan beat the 7970. If these people got so excited for the Titan logically they should be excited by almost a factor of two for the R9 290x. But that won't happen because it's AMD amirite.


I prefer Ati/AMD graphics for some years now. Some years ago I had terrible trouble with drivers on Nvidia, but no trouble on Ati. Thats the reason why I used Ati instead. Later I realized that AMD makes GPU with significantly higher computational power as Nvidia. That was true until Titan.

Titan is really something unseen before on Nvidia side. Later I wanted to provide some better reports I had to obtain GTX 650ti, and I liked how good the drivers were. Nvidia has repaired its damaged name on my side with Titan, but 1000 dollars? You maybe know, but something what cost 1000 dollars in USA cost 1000 euro in EU, and you know Euro is bit more valuable as US Dollar... Thats OVERCOSTED AS HELL. Thats why I remained with my HD7970.

Hawaii is not as big revolution on AMD side. They made great GPU - Tahiti. Hawaii is just bigger brother (if the leaked specs are at least partially true). If it beats Titan i am fine with it.


----------



## Usario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> So many people are biting their own word from 2 weeks ago.
> 
> "Ugggh, it will *NEVER* _BE_ AS CLOSE TO A 780"
> 
> I just hope it's true
> 
> 5% over titan, 400$ cheaper and 3-4 free games including bf4 and watch dogs?? That's what I'm talking about!... I'll still wait real benchmark to know the real story, you never know about "leaks"


This release seems a lot like RV770 tbqh. Nobody believed it would have 800 shaders like some of the leaks were saying and preferred to stick with fake rumors that said 480 SP (now lots of people were/are saying that Hawaii will only have 2304-2560 SPs and only 384-bit memory), and nobody believed that ATI would release an 800 SP GPU with GDDR5 and a level of performance NVIDIA could have easily sold for $500 at a mere $300 (now lots of people are saying there's no way AMD would undercut the 780 with this card if it outperforms Titan).


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Usario*
> 
> This release seems a lot like RV770 tbqh. Nobody believed it would have 800 shaders like some of the leaks were saying and preferred to stick with fake rumors that said 480 SP (now lots of people were/are saying that Hawaii will only have 2304-2560 SPs and only 384-bit memory), and nobody believed that ATI would release an 800 SP GPU with GDDR5 and a level of performance NVIDIA could have easily sold for $500 at a mere $300 (now lots of people are saying there's no way AMD would undercut the 780 with this card if it outperforms Titan).


They don't think it be like it is, but it do.


----------



## fateswarm

maarten12100, are you prepared to eat your hat if it beats the Titan? Hrm, suggestion. Eat my hat list.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Lol at most people here hoping that this causes a drop in Nvidia's prices. Bottom line is most don't want to mess with Amd and all there x-fire driver problems at high resolutions.


AMD drivers recently are doing way better than Nvidia's tbh.
I'd say it goes as far as AMD having on par and maybe superior drivers once the second frame pacing driver drops now all they have to do is redesign CCC since it is quite unclear.


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> AMD drivers recently are doing way better than Nvidia's tbh.
> I'd say it goes as far as AMD having on par and maybe superior drivers once the second frame pacing driver drops now all they have to do is redesign CCC since it is quite unclear.


Now they just need to spend the same amount of effort on Linux drivers.

Old as hell DX9 games are still unplayable on a 7850.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> 16 VRAM chips, they are 32 bit each.
> Count the number of VRAM chips on your card and then divide by bus width and you get what i mean
> So it's legit
> A 384-bit bus width card has 12 chips. 12*32. This has 16
> It's true unless you're stupid or something.


Is that a personal offence?
There are ways to get around using a smaller bus by using separated buses in the form of mainbus + extra bus the low end cards do this.
Also it could've been 256bit (though highly unlikely nearly impossible)

You can't just claim people are stupid for having a different(in this case perhaps better) understanding of how the world works.


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> AMD drivers recently are doing way better than Nvidia's tbh.


Way better ?They had stuttering on single cards just a few months ago, still there with multi-gpu . They are doing *fine* at most.

As far as game optimisation goes, they are almost on par with nvidia, but the green team is way faster at releasing fixes.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> But everyone forgot the frame time/ render time problems encountered with AMD drivers. If that is the case with their new Hawaii then people are more likely to switch back to 780s. On the performance side, NV dudes abandoned the ship.


Those problems will soon be a thing of the past for higher res and eyefinity besides there might be hardware based frame metering onboard the 290X


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> AMD drivers recently are doing way better than Nvidia's tbh.
> I'd say it goes as far as AMD having on par and maybe superior drivers once the second frame pacing driver drops now all they have to do is redesign CCC since it is quite unclear.
> 
> 
> 
> Now they just need to spend the same amount of effort on Linux drivers.
> 
> Old as hell DX9 games are still unplayable on a 7850.
Click to expand...

I appreciate that AMD is working on getting their drivers to work, but really, when I buy a product, it should work with minimal effort out of the box. You don't ask the pizza guy to not sit on your food; that's implied. I can barely play Star Wars: Battlefront II with Vsync on with a 2GB 1050MHz 7850. That's probably four times as powerful as 2005's most powerful GPU but the drivers and/or the game's coding suck and it plummets to 15-20FPS. Lack of driver support and trying to get WINE to work to install anything off discs turned me off to Linux for gaming, and if everything is that bad, then I'll try again in five years once support gets better, but for now, I'll stick to Windows.


----------



## fateswarm

Judging by AMD's history, the chips are 64 bit. The card is 1024bits. It doesn't really need them all.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Careful, you might still bite it.
> 
> And I doubt it beats the titan, unless it beats it in mining worthless coins.


Well if you cut of the inactive parts of the GTX780 GK110 die you'll find that it is pretty comparable in size so it might very well beat the Titan.
As for mining coins they seem to have pulled a Kepler GK104 judging by that one GPGPU bench but the excessive memory bandwidth may make up for this.

Litecoins are pretty lucrative after all.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Litecoins are pretty lucrative after all.


Meh. Unstable, plus governments started cracking down on the whole thing.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> maarten12100, are you prepared to eat your hat if it beats the Titan? Hrm, suggestion. Eat my hat list.


Certainly not as I expect it to beat the Titan what would be the use for AMD if it doesn't beat a 780








I'm long AMD and with the current hype up and a live reveal this card will certainly be great.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Now they just need to spend the same amount of effort on Linux drivers.
> 
> Old as hell DX9 games are still unplayable on a 7850.


I don't run linux yet I concur since Linux might very well be our future platform.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> Way better ?They had stuttering on single cards just a few months ago, still there with multi-gpu . They are doing *fine* at most.
> 
> As far as game optimisation goes, they are almost on par with nvidia, but the green team is way faster at releasing fixes.


I've ran single cards and it didn't bother me much actually my 570 had tearing problems even with vsync and even with a high frame rate.
The Nvidia drivers caused my 570 to crash all the time and it eventually died (just a week after the 320.XX batch drivers) kudos to EVGA for replacing it for a classified 570.
It isn't a good thing Nvidia releases updates faster since they are junk and untested must I remind you of the 1440P screen fiasco the recent drivers caused?

Better a well written tested driver than 10 drivers a month with bugs everywhere.

Only thing Nvidia has that is superior is their wonderful control panel layout where CCC is a mess.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Meh. Unstable, plus governments started cracking down on the whole thing.


The government is currently focusing Bitcoins which will take them a substantial amount of time due to it not being localized and working trough a proxy network.

I can't disagree with the fact they are unstable but if you exchange them and people buy them who cares as you have your money.


----------



## malmental

all I know is this thread is hilarious to read through...


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Certainly not as I expect it to beat the Titan what would be the use for AMD if it doesn't beat a 780
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm long AMD and with the current hype up and a live reveal this card will certainly be great.


You know BD was not that long ago... I'm just saying the Hype was through the roof...

I do hope its a decent performing chip to bring some parity. Not in Price pfft. Outright performance. I'd like to see realistic fluid dynamics in games in my lifetime. Build it and they will come.

Why should a developer code fluids if they already know it's going to be a slide show. We need cards much faster.







Seriously.


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I've ran single cards and it didn't bother me much actually my 570 had tearing problems even with vsync and even with a high frame rate.
> The Nvidia drivers caused my 570 to crash all the time and it eventually died (just a week after the 320.XX batch drivers) kudos to EVGA for replacing it for a classified 570.
> It isn't a good thing Nvidia releases updates faster since they are junk and untested must I remind you of the 1440P screen fiasco the recent drivers caused?
> 
> Better a well written tested driver than 10 drivers a month with bugs everywhere.
> 
> Only thing Nvidia has that is superior is their wonderful control panel layout where CCC is a mess.


Of course it HAD to be the faulty drivers that killed your GPU, EVEN IF you probably had problems with vsync before 320.xx was released. Yup. That makes so much sense. Its not that you got a faulty card, no it couldnt be that. Heh.

Nvidias beta drivers arent junk and untested, that just the hate flowing through you. They work fine, they fix things most of the time so you can play your games right away. But if you like waiting 2-3 months for fixes thats fine man. All those crossfire users had a great time waiting for framepacing drivers, i bet. Issue still present in dx9 games. How is that way better than nvidias drivers ?

SLI, 320.xx drivers and v-sync user here, BTW. GPUs still havent imploded, no screen tearing, no microstutter (in the vast majority of games, that is) ^^


----------



## sugarhell

Thats what i call bad info ^ I bet someone didint test yet 580 sli to see if they have framerate pace at all.Or 460 sli


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> I havent had any problems, neither with vsync or the 320.xx drivers. Of course it HAD to be the faulty drivers that killed your GPU, EVEN IF you probably had problems with vsync before 320.xx was released. Yup. That makes so much sense. Its not that you got a faulty card, no it couldnt be that. Heh.
> 
> Nvidias beta drivers arent junk and untested, that just the hate flowing through you. They work fine, they fix things most of the time so you can play your games right away. But if you like waiting 2-3 months for fixes thats fine man. All those crossfire users had a great time waiting for framepacing drivers, i bet.
> 
> SLI, 320.xx drivers and v-sync user here, BTW. GPUs still havent imploded ^^


I didn't say they did that is why I worded it like a week after those drivers came in to play.
It is generally know that those drivers caused freezing for 5XX and also them running somehow extra hot mine did no longer clock down in idle for a couple of days even after reboots and such. (took some time for me to figure it out)

If I'm the only one encountering it it would most likely be my problem and it would be bad to call rampage and hate for such a thing but if a multitude of users experience it the I guess it has a place in reality.

Now let's not turn this into a bash thread all I'm saying Nvidia users that don't even have a AMD card with recent drivers can't really get in comparing I have both so I might be able to tell which one functions better.

My 570 serves me great for many years (2.5 now) and will continue to do so until it dies it is a great card all that I'm saying is that the recent drivers (320.18 was a WQHL) and it had the problems.
What Nvidia should do is test better and slow down the driver updates as they are doing a lousy job.

It could be a coincidence the chances of that are 1:150 considering the average life of a gpu is 3 years if you deduct the time I had the card that would make it 1:70 chance in other words less than a 1.5% chance it dies in that week.
Alongside multiple cards of the 5XX series dieing under that same driver under a more rapid pace than they normally would.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Nope, screw this card. I am getting my RX-7


----------



## writer21

Just ordered another 670 for sli you think it will be faster than this card from amd?


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> I didn't say they did that is why I worded it like a week after those drivers came in to play.
> It is generally know that those drivers caused freezing for 5XX and also them running somehow extra hot mine did no longer clock down in idle for a couple of days even after reboots and such. (took some time for me to figure it out)
> 
> If I'm the only one encountering it it would most likely be my problem and it would be bad to call rampage and hate for such a thing but if a multitude of users experience it the I guess it has a place in reality.
> 
> Now let's not turn this into a bash thread all I'm saying Nvidia users that don't even have a AMD card with recent drivers can't really get in comparing I have both so I might be able to tell which one functions better.
> 
> My 570 serves me great for many years (2.5 now) and will continue to do so until it dies it is a great card all that I'm saying is that the recent drivers (320.18 was a WQHL) and it had the problems.
> What Nvidia should do is test better and slow down the driver updates as they are doing a lousy job.


I'm not so sure a multitude of users had problems that were caused by these drivers. While some probably did, i think most just blamed the drivers while the issue was elsewhere. But that just my opinion, until i see some proof.

Anyway, both have some issues(more from amd really), but you cant just come out and say AMD drivers are way better. Thats just not true.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Just ordered another 670 for sli you think it will be faster than this card from amd?


The SLI or the single card? Seeing as 670 ~ 760 ~ 7950, dual 7970s are around 40-50% faster than a Titan, and 7950s are around 80-90% 7970s, then dual 670s should be about 20% faster than a Titan which puts it a bit above these supposed specs at lower resolutions (up to maybe 1440p). Double the memory bandwidth will help significantly for high resolutions. Those are numbers pulled out my butt though, so it could be off, but the performance will be close nonetheless.


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Just ordered another 670 for sli you think it will be faster than this card from amd?


Yes, SLI 670s should be faster.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> Way better ?They had stuttering on single cards just a few months ago, still there with multi-gpu . They are doing *fine* at most.
> 
> As far as game optimisation goes, they are almost on par with nvidia, but the green team is way faster at releasing fixes.


You not what's not fine? Drivers that are too unstable to even play certain games without crashing or artifacting.


----------



## lugal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snuckie7*
> 
> You not what's not fine? Drivers that are too unstable to even play certain games without crashing or artifacting.


You mean like 320s from nvidia freezing even in idle or desktop, blackscreening and freezing in heroes 6 or causing massive glitches in eve online?


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> Yes, SLI 670s should be faster.


What is up man. It is been a long time since the 780 pre release threads were active; did you pull the trigger or held off of it? I am wondering as a lot of members were negative about buying it(I have not bought it).


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> I'm not so sure a multitude of users had problems that were caused by these drivers. While some probably did, i think most just blamed the drivers while the issue was elsewhere. But that just my opinion, until i see some proof.
> 
> Anyway, both have some issues(more from amd really), but you cant just come out and say AMD drivers are way better. Thats just not true.


Only few users actually report to Nvidia I myself even did not do it since EVGA was the party I had to deal with.

I have had many cards 8800gt 9800gt 4850 4870 275 295 570 7850.
With the first cards Nvidia reigned superior in drivers but currently along with gimped compute and greenlight that made me go AMD this time around until they revert, I'm not biased but if the above things happens I simply refuse to buy such a card.


----------



## Baghi

I concur this, look at the recent WHQL GeForce drivers pdf, NVIDIA is more busy fixing issues in many application (Rome 2 is yet to be fixed). Though, this could also be because AMD is working closely with various game developers lately.


----------



## szeged

rome 2 is just awfully coded, not nvidias fault there.


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> rome 2 is just awfully coded, not nvidias fault there.


And what about these: http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/327.23/327.23-win8-win7-winvista-desktop-release-notes.pdf


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> AMD driver counter-bashing department already here ? I would ask you for some proof on that outrageous claim but lets not derail this thread any more. (as in: you have none)
> 
> Anyway, i heard the rebranded 7970(the r9 280) is going to be released next year, is this true ?


Just the 4 members that passed by and it has been discussed in such a manner we made memes about it, it was very real.
I'm not gonna lie I currently run my 570 in the rig I'm using to type this all is working fine for me currently. (but I haven't played a game in 1.5 months or so)

Probably in October this year how it will be named and if it will be rebranded is anybodies guess I figure they'll but how they call it or where it fall in the line up I wouldn't know.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baghi*
> 
> And what about these: http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/327.23/327.23-win8-win7-winvista-desktop-release-notes.pdf


i didnt say they were perfect did i? both sides have always had driver problems, and probably always will. You should see the reactions to the latest nvidia driver though, pretty stable on all accounts so far.


----------



## szeged

to be fair, it was like two cards that got damaged wasnt it? i ran those drivers just fine, no problems at all.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Official NVIDIA 320.18 WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread read the whole thread


You do realize that 327.23 WHQL drivers are out now right? Your meme needs updating.








http://www.overclock.net/t/1427861/guru3d-geforce-327-23-whql/


----------



## lugal

Classic ocn, when it comes to nvidia issues dont exist at all.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> Classic ocn, when it comes to nvidia issues dont exist at all.


There's issues on both sides, most definitely but in most cases it's just the fanboys blowing it out of proportion.


----------



## Stay Puft

Whenever I hear someone say "Amds drivers are better then Nvidia's" I instantly think back to my 3870X2's, 4870X2, 4770s in Crossfire, 5870s in Quad crossfire and 7970s in quad crossfire and realize the person saying it has no freaking idea what the hell he's talking about


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> It killed maybe one or two GPUs that were probably already on their way out, if it was a widespread issue there would be much more outrage. Please go back to AMD land, thanks.


Tell that to those whose GPU's went bang.

Nvidia also ignored the problem, shrugged off all complainants, and a few shills accusing complainants of making it all up, while Nvidia sat in silence refusing to remove the driver.

Its very strange to me how some can defend this whole thing and be comfortable in their own skin, its what i just don't get about Nvidia loyalists, Nvidia can never ever do them wrong, even while you are bent over infront of them while they are thrusting hard from behind, very strange.

No wonder Nvidia behave like that.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

When it comes to drivers they are more or less the same. especially recently.
Nvidia released drivers a few times that kill cards, on the other hand AMD with anything lower than 13.2 even single cards suffered from microstutter and frametime issues, and I am speaking from experience







.
With 13.2+ AMD drivers have been good for me, save for the annoying freeze in sleep mode and Resident Evil 4 (old DX9 game) lags in some parts.
It is safe to say with 13.2+ AMD has improved its drivers much better when compared to 12.11 or less. In terms of gaming quality and experience they are as good as Nvidia's when it comes to single GPUs.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyolyn*
> 
> Maybe i'm just lucky.. but owning both AMD and NVIDIA i've never had any issues with the drivers of either


In 10 years of owning GPUs, I never had driver issues with over 10 GPUs from Nvidia and ATI.

Man I am lucky. 

If I encountered an issue it was extremely minor and negligable.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> yeah i dont think youre actually reading the posts then
> it really wasnt a wide spread thing, just a few people at most. Yeah it was a garbage thing nvidia did by shrugging it off, i hope those people got rma's and didnt have to pay for shipping, but the latest couple drivers have really been pretty good.


Many of (not all) of them were refused RAM's because the warranty was in some way void or just lapsed, it was dependent on the board partner.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Tell that to those whose GPU's went bang.
> 
> Nvidia also ignored the problem, shrugged off all complainants, and a few shills accusing complainants of making it all up, while Nvidia sat in silence refusing to remove the driver.
> 
> Its very strange to me how some can defend this whole thing and be comfortable in their own skin, its what i just don't get about Nvidia loyalists, Nvidia can never ever do them wrong, even while you are bent over infront of them while they are thrusting hard from behind, very strange.
> 
> No wonder Nvidia behave like that.


People had problems with those drivers, I for one included, but my video card didn't catch fire or blow up inside my rig. There was one game that gave me artifacts and occasionally hard froze or BSOD. I think you are blowing the driver problem out of proportion. There were a few instances, if it serves me correctly maybe like one or two at most when damage was actually done to video cards and I'm also pretty sure they were older model cards.

Much of it was just propaganda spread, probably by AMD fans. The drivers may have had issues with BSOD's, hard freezes, and some artifacts but that by no means translates to it destroying peoples' cards. I went back to the old drivers as soon as I started seeing artifacts even at stock clocks. I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain would know to do the same if they found this to be true for their card. There were also plenty of people who had no problems at all with those drivers. Just something to think about before you go on a rampant bad-mouthing spree against "loyalist nVidia fans."


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Many of (not all) of them were refused RAM's because the warranty was in some way void or just lapsed, it was depended on the board partner.


any info on how they were void? just old cards and the warranty ran out? that could be a contributing factor. if companies went out of their way to somehow void the warranty because of failed drivers, then that is downright dirty.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> You know BD was not that long ago... I'm just saying the Hype was through the roof...
> 
> I do hope its a decent performing chip to bring some parity. Not in Price pfft. Outright performance. I'd like to see realistic fluid dynamics in games in my lifetime. Build it and they will come.
> 
> Why should a developer code fluids if they already know it's going to be a slide show. We need cards much faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously.


Bulldozer wasn't a further continuation of existing architecture it was brand new not based off of k10 or anything. GCN 1.5 or 2.0 whatever isn't bound to fail like Bulldozer even if it falls short, comparing the two are completely irrelevant IMO. Though i understand what your getting at about the hype. It might not beat Titan but i expect 780 performance or better, otherwise as i said it's a waste of time and money for AMD.

I agree on the second note.


----------



## fleetfeather

the banter quality went down hill overnight,

we need moar rumours :/


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Official NVIDIA 320.18 WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread read the whole thread
> 
> Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Driver is Damaging GPUs
> 
> Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Driver is Damaging GPUs
> 
> 
> Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Driver is Damaging GPUs
> 
> DO Not install Nvidia 320.18 = killing gpu`s.
> 
> nVidia 320.18 drivers killing GPUs?
> 
> I could go on quoting more and more all night long.
> 
> Where were you during that time, under a rock? hibernating in a cave?


I asked for some actual proof, thank you. Not the first page of a google search.

Elaborate. Bring tests that show that. Prove its that particular driver. Show me an increase of % of cards that malfunctioned. And quickly or stop posting BS on here.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> any info on how they were void? just old cards and the warranty ran out? that could be a contributing factor. if companies went out of their way to somehow void the warranty because of failed drivers, then that is downright dirty.


After market coolers, none OEM BIOS.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mechkiller31st*
> 
> huh. *I have had 320.18 since it came out and not had any GPU related BSOD's* hell for that matter there haven't been much of any BSOD's excluding from my own OCing.
> 
> for the record *I work for Tigerdirect as the Tech manager at my store and I ensure that all our custom builds go out with the current GPU drivers and we stress test each system prior to it leaving out store,* and i can say with confidence that aside from a few DOA/crappy GPU's from both nvidia and AMD vendors I don't see any BSOD while running these stress tests and benchmarks.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BiG StroOnZ*
> 
> People had problems with those drivers, I for one included, but my video card didn't catch fire or blow up inside my rig. There was one game that gave me artifacts and occasionally hard froze or BSOD. I think you are blowing the driver problem out of proportion. There were a few instances, if it serves me correctly maybe like one or two at most when damage was actually done to video cards and I'm also pretty sure they were older model cards.
> 
> Much of it was just propaganda spread, probably by AMD fans. The drivers may have had issues with BSOD's, hard freezes, and some artifacts but that by no means translates to it destroying peoples' cards. I went back to the old drivers as soon as I started seeing artifacts even at stock clocks. I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain would know to do the same if they found this to be true for their card. There were also plenty of people who had no problems at all with those drivers. Just something to think about before you go on a rampant bad-mouthing spree against "loyalist nVidia fans."


this is what i'm talking about with bending over....

If that was AMD there would be hell on....


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> After market coolers, none OEM BIOS.


must be msi cards then lol, evga you can all but hardmod the card and theyll take a rma, i rma'd a few of my titans with modded bios(which are supposed to void the warranty) they didnt care though.

so yeah the denied rma's are the fault of greedy companies then.


----------



## akbisw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> What is so strange about that now it is just so that Titan would do better at gaming if it was built as GK104 rather than compute based GK110.
> AMD normaly gains compute at the cost of power and it will be the same this time around just they might be well matched this time.
> 
> All rumours though.


Dont care much about power but AMD being able to have lower tdp is kind of new and exciting. They are always behind in power consumption in both cpus and gpus. So I am just glad they were able to design this.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> must be msi cards then lol, evga you can all but hardmod the card and theyll take a rma, i rma'd a few of my titans with modded bios(which are supposed to void the warranty) they didnt care though.
> 
> so yeah the denied rma's are the fault of greedy companies then.


lol, MSI have also had their fair share of issues... dodgy fan nodes ecte... their rep is somewhat damaged.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> lol, MSI have also had their fair share of issues... dodgy fan nodes ecte... their rep is somewhat damaged.


speaking of MSI rma's, this is completely off topic btw. my gfs brother just had to rma his 7950 twin frozr card, it just straight up died in the middle of skyrim, he sent it in, took them three weeks to send it back, he got the same exact card back, we looked at the SN and everything, took pictures of the entire pcb layout before we shipped it off, except now the aluminum heatsink of the twin frozr was extremely scratched, and the card was still dead. we sent them an email asking what the hell was going on, they told us to rma it again, and i said yeah sure but youre paying for shipping there and back since you sent us the same card and tried to pass it off as fixed. they started to argue, i told them in a very polite way to kindly have relations with their backside, i hung up on them and bought him a brand new 7970 as a gift because msi can smd.

on topic, i hope other people dont have to go through rma's like that.


----------



## sdlvx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lugal*
> 
> I refreshed main ocn page, looking at news - GeForce 327.23 WHQL thread :
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1427861/guru3d-geforce-327-23-whql/60#post_20846465
> 
> ">muh superior drivers, my arse"


My upgrade history went something like this:

Using ATI, yeah drivers suck, don't make sense, crash sometimes.

Everyone goes NVIDIA AWESOME DRIVERS

Switch to Nvidia, no more ATI SMARTGART, drivers BSOD computer instead of crashing desktop and recovering.

It was at that point that I realized all graphics card drivers suck and you will never escape it. It is at least better than my horrible Xonar drivers or the nightmares I've heard about Creative drivers.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*


Don't front, it's tiger direct yo!


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Don't front, it's tiger direct yo!


TigerDirect pff, amazon ftw!


----------



## DoomDash

I've had a bunch of crashing issues due to drivers or other programs like precision x causing issues. I've had to manually install physix because for some reason mine would cause severe FPS problems in metro, and I've had tons of D3D related crashes as well. I think most were like I said, programs like Precision X causing issues, but things like the physicx drivers were unrelated.


----------



## Koniakki

I know I'm talking to the wall, but with the hell there's again a driver discussion on a Products benchmark thread?? And please don't give me the usual "is related" crap excuses.

I came here to see if there're any more news on the product to be released and all I see are "repeated" driver comments which have been already discussed a BILLION times. Damn...

There're appropriate threads for each company's drivers. And my apologies for my seemingly harsh comment.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Don't front, it's tiger direct yo!


ha ha, I think I might take the plunge and update from 314.22 to see what all these issues people are experiencing are about.

Abundant Cores is adamant about these issues, so everybody must be experiencing them. He of all people would know best, since he has a 7870.

The most demanding game I'm playing right now is....


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





Ok, I lied.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> speaking of MSI rma's, this is completely off topic btw. my gfs brother just had to rma his 7950 twin frozr card, it just straight up died in the middle of skyrim, he sent it in, took them three weeks to send it back, he got the same exact card back, we looked at the SN and everything, took pictures of the entire pcb layout before we shipped it off, except now the aluminum heatsink of the twin frozr was extremely scratched, and the card was still dead. we sent them an email asking what the hell was going on, they told us to rma it again, and i said yeah sure but youre paying for shipping there and back since you sent us the same card and tried to pass it off as fixed. they started to argue, i told them in a very polite way to kindly have relations with their backside, i hung up on them and bought him a brand new 7970 as a gift because msi can smd.
> 
> on topic, i hope other people dont have to go through rma's like that.


Thats not good is it?

Its a shame, not so long ago MSI was one of the best for GPU's, their mother boards are also crap, frying on overclocked FX-8350's.... granted those chip use far to much power, and they blamed AMD for it.

Looks fine at first, but when you consider only MSI's motherboard have this problem, suddenly its not fine.

Did you have get satisfied with them on that 7950?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Did you have get satisfied with them on that 7950?


we sent it back, managed to get free shipping after much muchhh arguing, its en route there now.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Result! ^^^^^








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koniakki*
> 
> I know I'm talking to the wall, but with the hell there's again a driver discussion on a Products release thread?? And please don' t give the related crap excuses.
> 
> I came here to see if there're any more news on the product to be released and all I see are "repeated" driver comments which have been already discussed a BILLION times. Damn...
> 
> There're appropriate threads for each company's drivers. And my apologies for my seemingly harsh comment.


It always ends up about Drivers, no one but a few want it to, but it does.

Watch what happens when the confirmed R9-290X Benches arrive, it will be no time at all before someone brings in AMD's so called bad driver, or micro-stutter, anything to steer it off topic and make it about Nvidia vs AMD.

It would be nice for a thread just to be about the good news that the R9-290X may be, but some will have very different idea's.


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> ha ha, I think I might take the plunge and update from 314.22 to see what all these issues people are experiencing are about.
> 
> Abundant Cores is adamant about these issues, so everybody must be experiencing them. He of all people would know best, since he has a 7870.


You may want to have a fire extinguisher within reach before installing those drivers, mate. Just look at how many links Abundant Cores has posted, it MUST be a serious issue.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> You may want to have a fire extinguisher within reach before installing those drivers, mate. Just look at how many links Abundant Cores has posted, it MUST be a serious issue.


Thanks for the advice, I'm pretty sure my GPU is out of Warranty now too.









Installing now, will report back....

If you don't hear back from me, my GPU is dead, and I don't have a spare. Pls call 912 for me.


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I'm pretty sure my GPU is out of Warranty now too.


Those MSI bastards, they knew it all along 320.18 would come out and fry your gpu. Talk about planned obsolescence...


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I'm pretty sure my GPU is out of Warranty now too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Installing now, will report back....
> 
> If you don't hear back from me, my GPU is dead, and I don't have a spare. *Pls call 912 for me*.


are you nutz!! thats the real number for 911.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I'm pretty sure my GPU is out of Warranty now too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Installing now, will report back....
> 
> If you don't hear back from me, my GPU is dead, and I don't have a spare. Pls call 912 for me.


you are too outdated to be rescured


----------



## 2010rig

Drivers installed, GPU is still alive, and I gained 10 FPS.









Of course I may be speaking too soon, he he.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









One step closer to check mate.




Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> you are too outdated to be rescured


I may be outdated, yet, there isn't a game I've come across that is unplayable on my outdated hardware. See screenshots above, especially for the 2nd game, that one is buttery smooth.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> It killed maybe one or two GPUs that were probably already on their way out, if it was a widespread issue there would be much more outrage. Please go back to AMD land, thanks.


well there was a 1.5% chance of my 570 dieing in that period and it did I can say with 98.5% accuracy that those drivers caused this


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> to be fair, it was like two cards that got damaged wasnt it? i ran those drivers just fine, no problems at all.


Mostly fermi card were affected


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Whenever I hear someone say "Amds drivers are better then Nvidia's" I instantly think back to my 3870X2's, 4870X2, 4770s in Crossfire, 5870s in Quad crossfire and 7970s in quad crossfire and realize the person saying it has no freaking idea what the hell he's talking about


As I said before my 4870 had worse drivers than my 275 back in those days that is for sure but it seems the tide is changing.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Many of (not all) of them were refused RAM's because the warranty was in some way void or just lapsed, it was dependent on the board partner.


Indeed I was lucky having the EVGA extended warranty where others got none (however I did pay 30 euros for shipping it)


----------



## Regent Square

3tple post by marten12100, disband!


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I may be outdated, yet, there isn't a game I've come across that is unplayable on my outdated hardware. See screenshots above, especially for the 2nd game, that one is buttery smooth.


GTX 470 is a legend IMO. It still kicks ass when overclocked, mine was around GTX 570 performance levels. Only bad thing about it was the reference cooler but I installed AC Xtreme II cooler and oc'd it to the moon.


----------



## Regent Square

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Drivers installed, GPU is still alive, and I gained 10 FPS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I may be speaking too soon, he he.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One step closer to check mate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may be outdated, yet, there isn't a game I've come across that is unplayable on my outdated hardware. See screenshots above, especially for the 2nd game, that one is buttery smooth.


O_0, 0_o o; wut a mock.


----------



## 2010rig

Yo dawg, OCN has this cool feature called the *Edit button*, you should learn to use it, instead of making 4 posts in a row.










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> GTX 470 is a legend IMO. It still kicks ass when overclocked, mine was around GTX 570 performance levels. Only bad thing about it was the reference cooler but I installed AC Xtreme II cooler and oc'd it to the moon.


Yeah, mine is at 800c, 1800mem, the TwinFrozr II cooler rocks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Regent Square*
> 
> O_0, 0_o o; wut a mock.


I should probably tone it down, there's a 98.5% chance my GPU will die from these drivers.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> One step closer to check mate.
> 
> 
> I may be outdated, yet, there isn't a game I've come across that is *unplayable* on my outdated hardware.


I think you'll find that particular move is unplayable in chess no matter the hardware


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> I asked for some actual proof, thank you. Not the first page of a google search.
> 
> Elaborate. Bring tests that show that. Prove its that particular driver. Show me an increase of % of cards that malfunctioned. And quickly or stop posting BS on here.


I already did the math for you a chance greater than 98.5% these drivers killed my card.
Since a lot of OCN'ers say it there have been complaints about it on Nvidia's forum you can't just say it doesn't have a place in reality since it is really what happened.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Yo dawg, OCN has this cool feature called the *Edit button*, you should learn to use it, instead of making 4 posts in a row.


I know but I read the thread in order I shall use the mutli quote option though normaly nobody really cares about me responding this way I'm posting quite a lot indeed


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> As I said before my 4870 had worse drivers than my 275 back in those days that is for sure but it seems the tide is changing.


I normally don't jump into these sorts of discussions, but I'm gonna throw out my 2cents.

As someone who has used both SLI (GTX 670s) and Xfire (HD 7970s) recently, I can pretty much say quite definitively that AMD still has some work to do on their drivers. Tides may be changing, yes, but they haven't just yet.

When I was using 13.8 on two 7970s, I experienced the lovely lack of any micro-stutter (of which I'm normally extremely susceptible to), but that is pretty much where it ended. I experienced far to many issues, ranging from having to enable/disable crossfire depending on games, having problems in terms of crossfire enabled on things like LoL (severe input lag bug), and the sheer annoyance of having to run in full screen (non-windowed) mode in order to receive the benefit of Crossfire. And the majority of the crossfire enable/disable bugs happened even in 13.4/13.6 too.

And in regards to actually CAPs/SLI Profiles, Nvidia is almost always faster at getting those out to their customers for new releases (Rome II reboot currently against the norm, however), compared to AMD. And that's purely due to the frequency that they push out driver updates, compared to AMD.

But yeah, my experience wasn't exactly indicative of everyone else's, but when I was on GTX 670 SLI, I had absolutely none of those problems. And I never had any of the issues some people seemed to face, i.e. the BF3 bugs.

Everyone's hardware is different, I'll give you that, but I can definitively say I'm not the only one that has experienced the darker sides of Crossfire. I gave both a try, and in terms of driver support, Nvidia just had the superior experience. Its a YMMV, but people need to realize that there are detriments, and good things about either. And it all depends on your machine.

In the end, you are going to get fantastic performance from either side. And depending on your hardware, you might have different experiences between companies. But this childish bickering, and brand loyalty to either side is just, quite frankly, ridiculous and juvenille.

And the sheer lack of respect some of the users in this thread have for each other is disheartening to see on OCN. Its pretty much like they never took the chance to read the TOS.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I think you'll find that particular move is unplayable in chess no matter the hardware












Thanks to these 327.23 drivers I just check mated this guy.










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Thank you Abundant Cores, none of this would have been possible without you. +Rep.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Result! ^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It always ends up about Drivers, no one but a few want it to, but it does.
> 
> Watch what happens when the confirmed R9-290X Benches arrive, it will be no time at all before someone brings in AMD's so called bad driver, or micro-stutter, anything to steer it off topic and make it about Nvidia vs AMD.
> 
> It would be nice for a thread just to be about the good news that the R9-290X may be, but some will have very different idea's.


I'm sorry about that but there was some fanboys bashing AMD drivers so I told them how my experience was and how they compare to current Nvidia drivers.
I fed the troll without giving it a second thought.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> I normally don't jump into these sorts of discussions, but I'm gonna throw out my 2cents.
> 
> As someone who has used both SLI and Xfire recently, I can pretty much say quite definitively that AMD still has some work to do on their drivers. Tides may be changing, yes, but they haven't just yet.
> 
> When I was using 13.8 on two 7970s, I experienced the lovely lack of any micro-stutter (of which I'm normally extremely susceptible to), but that is pretty much where it ended. I experienced far to many issues, ranging from having to enable/disable crossfire depending on games, having problems in terms of crossfire enabled on things like LoL (severe input lag bug), and the sheer annoyance of having to run in full screen (non-windowed) mode in order to receive the benefit of Crossfire.
> 
> And in regards to actually CAPs/SLI Profiles, Nvidia is almost always faster at getting those out to their customers for new releases (Rome II reboot currently against the norm, however), compared to AMD. And that's purely due to the frequency that they push out driver updates, compared to AMD.
> 
> But yeah, my experience wasn't exactly indicative of everyone else's, but when I was on GTX 670 SLI, I had absolutely none of those problems. And I never had any of the issues some people seemed to face, i.e. the BF3 bugs.
> 
> Everyone's hardware is different, I'll give you that, but I can definitively say I'm not the only one that has experienced the darker sides of Crossfire. I gave both a try, and in terms of driver support, Nvidia just had the superior experience. Its a YMMV, but people need to realize that there are detriments, and good things about either. And it all depends on your machine.
> 
> In the end, you are going to get fantastic performance from either side. And depending on your hardware, you might have different experiences between companies. But this childish bickering, and brand loyalty to either side is just, quite frankly, ridiculous and juvenille.
> 
> And the sheer lack of respect some of the users in this thread have for each other is disheartening to see on OCN. Its pretty much like they never took the chance to read the TOS.


I agree with you no one agrues Nvidia drivers being "bad" just that they haven't been as good as they used to be.
That is why I stated is the (too) frequent updating kills a good driver.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Drivers installed, GPU is still alive, and I gained 10 FPS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I may be speaking too soon, he he.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One step closer to check mate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may be outdated, yet, there isn't a game I've come across that is unplayable on my outdated hardware. See screenshots above, especially for the 2nd game, that one is buttery smooth.


I take it you haven't played Just Cause 2 or Borderlands 2 with the new drivers?

Don't worry, even AMD drivers can be perfect in one game


----------



## skupples

I just want to say... I think AMD would be a bit more cocky if they knew they had a "titan killer" (reminds me of wow killer) on there hands.

Pointing out that AMD hasn't fixed drivers for the 1% of gamer's is not damage control, it's fact.
AMD has had plenty of time to wrap epic frame pacing animations into the release party speech, i'm sure we will see at least one.

AMD is basically doing the same thing to NV that they did to Intel... Letting them keep the super enthusiast, 10% faster, 3x the price market.

one last thing... We have owner's threads for a reason here... & that reason is not to hunt down people, or try to rain on peoples parades.(even if they may need some rain)

emotion>over logic debate continue!


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I never had an issue with 320.18s and those who did were the minority


I didn't have an issue with 320.18 either.

Funny thing about 320.18 though that hardly ever gets mentioned. There was a bug that limited Fermi overclocks to 999 mhz. 320.18 fixed that and said so in the release notes.

So 320.18 lets Fermi cards get over 999 mhz and suddenly we have a couple blown cards.

Funny how with all the wealth tech knowledge out there that not a single person ever could confirm the driver was the culprit.


----------



## BackwoodsNC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I just want to say... I think AMD would be a bit more cocky if they knew they had a "titan killer" (reminds me of wow killer) on there hands.


I think they are being cocky by holding a event for this release. As far as i know, they have never done one before for a graphics card. That must say something about this card.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BackwoodsNC*
> 
> I think they are being cocky by holding a event for this release. As far as i know, they have never done one before for a graphics card. That must say something about this card.


Well, they're probably gonna talk about Kaveri's launch too. We've been seeing some leaks about it alongside Hawaii. Perhaps Kaveri will use GCN 2.0 cores like Hawaii


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snuckie7*
> 
> I take it you haven't played Just Cause 2 or Borderlands 2 with the new drivers?
> 
> Don't worry, even AMD drivers can be perfect in one game


Nope, I haven't, and I don't plan to. I beat Just Cause 2 over 2 years ago, and has long been un-installed. I don't play Borderlands 2. I'm not gonna install a game I have no interest in playing, just so I can experience what ever issues you're referring to. I only reported back on the game I'm currently playing.

I'll be honest, I'm shocked I'm even typing this right now, I was expecting my GPU to be fried and dead by now. I'll happily fire up some other games I have installed, and report back.

Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil 5, Civ V, Ghost Recon, Anno 2070, Dishonored, Mass Effect 2, 3, Hitman Absolution, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Far Cry 3, Sleeping Dogs.....

That should give you enough of a selection, take your pick.


----------



## maarten12100

Let's get back on topic besides if over 98.5% certainty isn't enough what is that number goes up to something like 99% if you take all the cards into account that've died around the time the driver was updated.
Anyone has a couple of high end fermi card want to be blown?


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Nope, I haven't, and I don't plan to. I beat Just Cause 2 over 2 years ago, and has long been un-installed. I'm not gonna install a game I have no interest in playing, just so I can experience what ever issues you're referring to. I only reported back on the game I'm currently playing.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'm shocked I'm even typing this right now, I was expecting my GPU to be fried and dead by now.
> 
> I'll happily fire up some other games I have installed, and report back.
> 
> Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil 5, Civ V, Ghost Recon, Anno 2070, Dishonored, Mass Effect 2, 3, Hitman Absolution, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Far Cry 3, Sleeping Dogs.....
> 
> That should give you enough of a selection, take your pick.


How about GTA 4?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wstanci3*
> 
> How about GTA 4?


I don't have that for the PC, after hearing how terribly optimized it was.









I only have that on the 360.


----------



## wstanci3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I don't have that for the PC, after hearing how terribly optimized it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only have that on the 360.


Well to be honest, I just wanted to see how your 470 would of handled it.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Playing Crysis 3 at 1440p fully maxed with 8x MSAA back on launch day was something only two Titans could do back then. Was worth it to me...


----------



## maneil99

Has it been stated exactly what this card is. Seems like the benchmarks and specs indicate the firepro card. Are we sure the 290x is the 7970 replacement not the firepro model? Maybe the 280x is suppose to be the 7970 replacement and is going to be 599$ and 780 levels and the 290x is going to be the FirePro Card thats an extra 20%.


----------



## Clocknut

Fermi 500series is a lousy card, at least for the reference 570. I have one leadtek reference 570 fail on me @ 2.5 yrs old @ stock clock, never OC b4. *it is either fault is on Nvidia or on leadtek.

I never had card fail less than 3yrs b4 this, for this reason I am taking a break away from Nvidia.









Using Asus 7790 now.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Fermi 500series is a lousy card, at least for the reference 570. I have one leadtek reference 570 fail on me @ 2.5 yrs old @ stock clock, never OC b4. *it is either fault is on Nvidia or on *leadtek*.
> 
> I never had card fail less than 3yrs b4 this, for this reason I am taking a break away from Nvidia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using Asus 7790 now.


There is your issue right there. Leadtek...


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maneil99*
> 
> Has it been stated exactly what this card is. Seems like the benchmarks and specs indicate the firepro card. Are we sure the 290x is the 7970 replacement not the firepro model? Maybe the 280x is suppose to be the 7970 replacement and is going to be 599$ and 780 levels and the 290x is going to be the FirePro Card thats an extra 20%.


The way I look at it:
7970 > 290X
7870 > 280X
7770 > 270X
and so on.

7990 will be 290X2


----------



## Abundant Cores

@ 2010rig, are you crazy?









Don't press the big red button marked self destruct, really? lets see.... BANG!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> Fermi 500series is a lousy card, at least for the reference 570. I have one leadtek reference 570 fail on me @ 2.5 yrs old @ stock clock, never OC b4. *it is either fault is on Nvidia or on leadtek.
> 
> I never had card fail less than 3yrs b4 this, for this reason I am taking a break away from Nvidia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using Asus 7790 now.


As a rule of thumb, don't buy from little known companies, and don't buy reference cards if you can help it.

Stick with EVGA, ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, Galaxy, before Leadtek.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> @ 2010rig, are you crazy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't press the big red button marked self destruct, really? lets see.... BANG!


I like living life on the edge, YOLO.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> As a rule of thumb, don't buy from little known companies, and don't buy reference cards if you can help it.
> 
> Stick with EVGA, ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, Galaxy, before Leadtek.
> I like living life on the edge, YOLO.


Always buy reference cards if you are gonna throw it under water.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fickle Pickle*
> 
> Always buy reference cards if you are gonna throw it under water.


Or make sure the non reference card has or is getting a compatible waterblock:thumb:


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Or make sure the non reference card has or is getting a compatible waterblock:thumb:


Agreed, but reference is just easier and cheaper usually.

Can't wait to see this card. If it's that much faster than my 7970 and BF4/Watchdogs cannot keep 60fps ultra on the 7970, a new card it is!


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fickle Pickle*
> 
> Agreed, but reference is just easier and cheaper usually.
> 
> Can't wait to see this card. If it's that much faster than my 7970 and BF4/Watchdogs cannot keep 60fps ultra on the 7970, a new card it is!


Why not X-fire? Cheaper and better combined performance. Unless you want that 1 card solution...


----------



## jomama22

Reference modules of AMD hardware seems to have a bit better components then nvidia. Take the 780 and 7970 for instance. No problems for amd users to run upwards over 1.38v while I would be quite hesitant to go over 1.35 on a 780.

Most 7970 top scores are with reference modules without volt mods.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> If there's anything I've gotten out of this thread is that YMMV, regardless of which camp you're with.


That's just true in regards to technology. I've never had problems with my hardware that I own but building a rig for a friend been through two motherboards, and a CPU without OCing before we got it working properly.

I wonder if they call the full hawaii "The Radeon". The Titan vs The Radeon hmmm.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Why not X-fire? Cheaper and better combined performance. Unless you want that 1 card solution...


Yeah I prefer a single card solution. Heat/power are of concern for me simply because it gets pretty hot during summers in southern California. When you have an overclocked PC, 55 inch tv, receiver/amplifier, 1000 watt subwoofer, and 5 fairly large bookshelf speakers, things tend to get quite warm.


----------



## zealord

How high is the chance for this card to be 549$, with the performance from the leaks we've seen, Watchs Dogs + BF4, fast releasing aftermarket cooling solutions ?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> How high is the chance for this card to be 549$, with the performance from the leaks we've seen, Watchs Dogs + BF4, fast releasing aftermarket cooling solutions ?


i hope its high, 550, aftermaket cooling, BF4, god i would go into a nerdgasm coma


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> How high is the chance for this card to be 549$, with the performance from the leaks we've seen, Watchs Dogs + BF4, fast releasing aftermarket cooling solutions ?


42,171%. Though I'd find it more likely at 61,217% to be around $621,4.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> How high is the chance for this card to be 549$, with the performance from the leaks we've seen, Watchs Dogs + BF4, fast releasing aftermarket cooling solutions ?


I think if it is 549 and faster than TITAN + 3 free games, people would instant grab 2 of them to crossfire lol

IMO, it is more likely to be $599-$649


----------



## Sujeto 1

When will be the official release of this GPU? Paper launch or stock launch?

Demn AMD got me thinking to cancell my purchase of 780


----------



## szeged

probably late october early november.

btw did you go through with the 780 classifieds?


----------



## fateswarm

Hi, I'd like to place a bet for $599 and the performance of a 780 please. If a system is available, $550-650 with the performance of +/-20% 780.


----------



## th3illusiveman

If this is true it will be interesting to hear Alatars view on the topic considering he was practically preaching that there was no chance AMD could beat Nvidia on the 28nm node.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> If this is true it will be interesting to hear Alatars view on the topic considering he was practically preaching that there was no chance AMD could beat Nvidia on the 28nm node.


Which is probably right. Unless AMD charges similarly and they won't, in gaming.


----------



## szeged

i want overclocking results, benchmarks for games are fun and all, but i wanna see if this card can trade blows with a 1.35v titan


----------



## Sujeto 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> probably late october early november.
> 
> btw did you go through with the 780 classifieds?


Yes they are about to be shipped, but i still may cancell it , november! that's a lot time.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sujeto 1*
> 
> Yes they are about to be shipped, but i still may cancell it arrrggg


id say go ahead and get em really, unless you want to wait a few weeks just to say a couple hundred bucks, that is if nvidia even drops prices, which i hope they do.

the classifieds are great cards, you wont regret them.


----------



## Sujeto 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> id say go ahead and get em really, unless you want to wait a few weeks just to say a couple hundred bucks, that is if nvidia even drops prices, which i hope they do.
> 
> the classifieds are great cards, you wont regret them.


Yes, i will get them, i though AMD were to release that gpu sooner.


----------



## badtaylorx

being a fan of both camp, i always hope for the best from both...

however,

$$$ pricing has proven to be a good forcaster of performance for a few releases in a row now....

my guess is that if $600 is true....it will come in trading blows with the 780, just like the 7970/680!!!

(and i LOVE the new sku!!!


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> id say go ahead and get em really, unless you want to wait a few weeks just to say a couple hundred bucks, that is if nvidia even drops prices, which i hope they do.
> 
> the classifieds are great cards, you wont regret them.


The chance of being worth to wait is about around 40%. Hence if the cost to fail is about the difference lost then you lose, assuming the new AMD card is around 600 and the classifieds should be worth at that point 500, assuming the new AMD is around a vanilla 780 or slightly better, then the loss is around 0.4*(300*2) = 240, and if the waiting time is worth more than 240 then it would be worth to still get the classifieds and I'm perfectly aware I made sense to only 1% of the population.


----------



## yesitsmario

Hope us AMD fans won't be disappointed.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i want overclocking results, benchmarks for games are fun and all, *but i wanna see if this card can trade blows with a 1.35v titan*


Probably not but that's not really fair either. Technically no "legal" Titan can use 1.35V, at least as far as Nvidia is concerned. The fact that we can is just because of a hack that obviously won't be available for the 290X for a while, if ever (took 9 months for one to become available for Titans). The only real fair contest would be between 1.212V Titan and whatever limit the 290X comes at OC'd. Of course I don't expect anybody around here to care about what's fair when it comes to AMD vs Nvidia...


----------



## jomama22

I think of you expect a 780-titan performance, you wont be disappointed. But anything above that level may be let down.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

If the leaked benches are true then we already know that the 290X basically is tied with Titan clock-for-clock. Then the question becomes which one OC's more? With unlocked voltage via an AB hack I don't see the 290X being able to keep up but if this was 3 months ago when Titan was still stuck at 1.212V and around 1250MHz max then it would have been very interesting to see...


----------



## elreyhorus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Probably not but that's not really fair either. Technically no "legal" Titan can use 1.35V, at least as far as Nvidia is concerned. The fact that we can is just because of a hack that obviously won't be available for the 290X for a while, if ever (took 9 months for one to become available for Titans). The only real fair contest would be between 1.212V Titan and whatever limit the 290X comes at OC'd. Of course I don't expect anybody around here to care about what's fair when it comes to AMD vs Nvidia...


Yeah, NVIDIA likes to neuter their GPUs. Kepler has untapped performance waiting to be unlocked but is artificially gimped by the 1.175-1.212 V limitation that NVIDIA created.
Instead of providing good drivers, how about better video card BIOS without a silly low voltage limitation?


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Cleaned and reopened.
Sorry folks about the delay. I got a little backlogged and forgot about this thread







. Anyway, please get back on topic. I don't want to see another pointless debate between which manufacturer has superior drivers i.e. AMD drivers vs NVIDIA drivers. It has zero relevance to this thread.


----------



## fleetfeather

Imma start this rumour thread back up with a post from [H]|F's Kyle who is apparently drunk and probably breaking his NDA (title says "AMD Sez" but you know what he's trying to do when he doesn't start the actual post as if he's quoting them)

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1782602

Edit: original finder of the above link is [someone else, i dont know who found it first], credit goes to them


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Imma start this rumour thread back up with a post from [H]|F's Kyle who is apparently drunk and probably breaking his NDA
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1782602
> 
> Edit: original finder of the above link is raghu78, credit goes to him


Kyle is not really breaking an NDA. he is not talking specs or performance. but yes he is teasing us







maybe yes AMD takes the stock comparison. I know a lot of guys will now ask for a voltage OC comparison. I hope hardocp does such a separate comparison to let us know how well each of these cards scale and whats their OC headroom. AMD has traditionally been very friendly with voltage control on their reference designs. so watercooling enthusiasts should have a ball taking this chip to 1.3 Ghz or higher.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Imma start this rumour thread back up with a post from [H]|F's Kyle who is apparently drunk and probably breaking his NDA
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1782602
> 
> Edit: original finder of the above link is Final8ty, credit goes to him


Quote:


> AMD Sez



















I think he's being sarcastic.

PS: Thanks 5entinel


----------



## fleetfeather

Sorry, I ninja edited a few times while you guys were typing out replies. Does what i said sorta make sense now as to why i suggested he might be breaking NDA? (or why he might be trying to say something _without_ breaking NDA? haha)


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Imma start this rumour thread back up with a post from [H]|F's Kyle who is apparently drunk and probably breaking his NDA (title says "AMD Sez" but you know what he's trying to do when he doesn't start the actual post as if he's quoting them)
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1782602
> 
> Edit: original finder of the above link is [someone else, i dont know who found it first], credit goes to them


I don't think he is breaking any type of NDA by what he posted. All I know is if this is true, tomorrow can't get here soon enough.

Doubt I will be buying a new card anytime soon, but when it comes to computer hardware, gpu launches are my favorite!


----------



## iARDAs

Guys do you think the new GPUs of AMD will start to be sold tomorrow as well?

How do these things work?


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Guys do you think the new GPUs of AMD will start to be sold tomorrow as well?
> 
> How do these things work?


No, October is the rumored release date


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> No, October is the rumored release date


Alright thank you


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> No, October is the rumored release date


yeah early - mid Oct. tomorrow they will announce when retail availability is scheduled.


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> yeah early - mid Oct. tomorrow they will announce when retail availability is scheduled.


Yeah because I am selling my Titan today. I was going to go for a 780 or perhaps a 770 SLI setup. Maybe best I get a single 770 for the time being and wait for this new GPU from AMD. I can sell an Asus Direct CU 2 770 for almost the same price I got it for so my loss will be no more than 40-50 bucks which is ok for a few weeks of entertainment.

I can not do without a GPU


----------



## Abundant Cores

Someones having some fun already...lol


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Someones having some fun already...lol


Terrible misspealing of the word ''believe''









Edit : Joking aside does having 512 mean bett3er 1440p performance?


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Terrible misspealing of the word ''believe''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit : Joking aside does having 512 mean bett3er 1440p performance?


And 'they're' WT#???


----------



## Blackops_2

One more day now. Can't wait. As for launch if they hold their end of the bargain and do bundle BF4 I imagine it comes out around then. As raghu said mid October


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Yeah because I am selling my Titan today. I was going to go for a 780 or perhaps a 770 SLI setup. Maybe best I get a single 770 for the time being and wait for this new GPU from AMD. I can sell an Asus Direct CU 2 770 for almost the same price I got it for so my loss will be no more than 40-50 bucks which is ok for a few weeks of entertainment.
> 
> I can not do without a GPU


I was sick of dealing with only 1.25gb of v-ram and jumped on my 7950 as soon as I found the awesome Deals you can find on them. Got one of those Saphire 7950 boost cards with the 7970 pcb along on ebay and a EK FC7970 block from someone here on OCN. For only spending $250 total and I got the Code for the never settle bundle, as the GPU was only a month old and code was never used, I am utterly impressed.

Not the biggest fan of AMD's Boost, with a low ASIC value like mine (58.6%) It would cause the card to throttle the core clocks when Overclocking because of TDP issues, going to 20% power tune helped but still not enough for overclocking. Had to Modify my Bios So I could set my Powertune Limit to 50%, And with that No more Throttle. Only Problem I have now I'm stuck at only 1.3v and card doesn't go past 55c on heaven. If I could push upto the 1.4v range I see no reason why I couldn't get 1300mhz or more. Though VRM limits would be a problem at some point.

Though at 1250/1600 I am 400 points away from my old gtx470 SLI 850/1900 in 3DMark 11, Still breaking 10k P what is nice for a single card on a first gen i7. So really I'm about the same in GPU power but with the perks of being a single card and having 3gb of video memory. Love being able to turn the setting in my games higher without having to deal with v-ram issues. BioShock and Crysis 3 run so much better even though I'm running with higher settings now. AMD might have some problems to work out still, but anyone that says that AMD cards don't perform well or smoothly is down right wrong. Still Loved my SLI setup though, but Nvidia still has a good deal of problems of their own. Ether Way no one is perfect.

Should hold me off fine till I Get a 290x and Block, though might wait and get a new CPU/Mobo at same time with tax return.


----------



## sugarhell

Use modded trixx for more than 1.3 volts


----------



## f16-r1

Interesting, really excited to find out more about this card, waiting for the presentation tomorrow


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Use modded trixx for more than 1.3 volts


AND IT HAS BEGUN

Modded TriXX goes to 1.381v for me

I tried Trixx earlier but not modded









Though I didn't really do any research on the matter yet


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> AND IT HAS BEGUN
> 
> Modded TriXX goes to 1.381v for me
> 
> I tried Trixx earlier but not modded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though I didn't really do any research on the matter yet


Stock trixx should do 1.381v. Modded trixx adds memory volage control.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> AND IT HAS BEGUN
> 
> Modded TriXX goes to 1.381v for me
> 
> I tried Trixx earlier but not modded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though I didn't really do any research on the matter yet


Nice. It is always cool getting a new tweak after you have kinda giving up on overclock numbers. I need a tweak on my Classified to make the Elipda memory not suck.









Speaking of memory, hoping all of these new Radeon cards are lucky enough to get only Hynix or Samsung. Don't wish it on anyone to get crummy ram.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Stock trixx should do 1.381v. Modded trixx adds memory volage control.


I have a 7950 on 7970 PCB but with a phase taken away. Still should be fine upwards of around 1300mhz.

Stock TriXX would do no more then AB for me, what was 1.3v. Though I'm more then happy with 1.381v, OCP will probably kick in somepoint anyways.

Anyone know how high I can push Memory voltage? I don't remember but I think I might have Hynix memory chips. @ 1600mhz with 1.65v


----------



## ZombieJon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> Kyle is not really breaking an NDA. he is not talking specs or performance. but yes he is teasing us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe yes AMD takes the stock comparison.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I don't think he is breaking any type of NDA by what he posted. All I know is if this is true, tomorrow can't get here soon enough. !


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Imma start this rumour thread back up with a post from [H]|F's Kyle who is apparently drunk and probably breaking his NDA (title says "AMD Sez" but you know what he's trying to do when he doesn't start the actual post as if he's quoting them)
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1782602


Depends on how strict the NDA is. I've signed at least 4 since 2015 years regarding scientific research. The rule of thumb is that general information can be provided, but nothing specific while the NDA is in effect.

NDAs also tend to relax a bit when the project comes to an end and announcements/publications are coming. Not as big of an issue with competition at this point because all the information/product will be out there soon.


----------



## skupples

We can only hope that the titan level of performance (when overclocked, because they slow @ stock) comes down to 500$. (which won't be AMD's top of the line, as that will be 600-650USD)


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Imma start this rumour thread back up with a post from [H]|F's Kyle who is apparently drunk and probably breaking his NDA (title says "AMD Sez" but you know what he's trying to do when he doesn't start the actual post as if he's quoting them)
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1782602
> 
> Edit: original finder of the above link is [someone else, i dont know who found it first], credit goes to them


Did anyone bother to ask in what department "_Next gen faster than anything NVIDIA has..._", Desktop market? mobile market? Or they've faster RAM sticks because NVIDIA doesn't make them at all..


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Stock trixx should do 1.381v. Modded trixx adds memory volage control.


Does that even do anything? I tried 1.381v and really pushes the card. Maybe if you good mad amount of RAD and probably need more then 20% power to stop the card from slowing down.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Does that even do anything? I tried 1.381v and really pushes the card. Maybe if you good mad amount of RAD and probably need more then 20% power to stop the card from slowing down.


Most I ever push is about 1.345v, any more than that makes no difference for me.

Bump on the memory voltage does help, yes.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Most I ever push is about 1.345v, any more than that makes no difference for me.
> 
> Bump on the memory voltage does help, yes.


For me anything over 1.25v does nothing because temps get too high and cards dont like it. If i had better loop i would probably hit 1.3GHz but as soon as i go over 45C no go.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> For me anything over 1.25v does nothing because temps get too high and cards dont like it. If i had better loop i would probably hit 1.3GHz but as soon as i go over 45C no go.


That's weird to have such a low temp threshold. I think the hottest I have seen my cards ever get is 48c.

But to be honest, my cards run stock volts 1125/1575 95% of the time, only heavily overclock them for the odd game. Diminishing returns too once you go past 1250 on the core. Certainly not worth upgrading your loop for.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Stock trixx should do 1.381v. Modded trixx adds memory volage control.


Nope, it depends on the vBIOS.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Nope, it depends on the vBIOS.


Well, on stock cards, this is the case. Partner custom PCBs, no Idea.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> That's weird to have such a low temp threshold. I think the hottest I have seen my cards ever get is 48c.
> 
> But to be honest, my cards run stock volts 1125/1575 95% of the time, only heavily overclock them for the odd game. Diminishing returns too once you go past 1250 on the core. Certainly not worth upgrading your loop for.


I run them @ 1200Mhz @ 1.25v for the heck of it. If i play a game that uses the cards 100% they will go as high as 58C. With stock volts ~ 1.175 i hit ~ 48-52C depending in the ambient. I run my fans @ 7v.


----------



## Regent Square

Who is gonna watch the presentation and via what way, ex: Facebook, youtube etc.. ?

600th Post!


----------



## maarten12100

"Only 1 day is left"
"We raise our hands and bodies to the peak until the stars we go" (that wasn't a Maxwell/Kepler reference about stars it was about this webcast)


----------



## Baghi

King Raja (aka Raja Koduri) will be joining them in a while.


----------



## Yor_

Waiting for something faster, better, stronger than my EVGA GTX 780 SC w/ ACX. My e-peen needs enlargement.


----------



## -Droid-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yor_*
> 
> Waiting for something faster, better, stronger than my EVGA GTX 780 SC w/ ACX. My e-peen needs enlargement.


I dont understand this, its gonna be just a bit faster than your card, why dont you just wait for maxwell ? Or get a used one and SLI ? I understand if it was much faster, but its a merely 5-10%.

Or i just totally misunderstood your comment and you're not talking about the 290x...

Anyone has news about the 300, 250 dollar cards yet ?


----------



## Yor_

Just kidding. I'm just looking forward to whatever AMD is going to release next.

Hopefully it defeats green team cards at a lower price. NVIDIA ridiculous prices need to stop.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> I dont understand this, its gonna be just a bit faster than your card, why dont you just wait for maxwell ? Or get a used one and SLI ? I understand if it was much faster, but its a merely 5-10%.
> 
> Or i just totally misunderstood your comment and you're not talking about the 290x...
> 
> Anyone has news about the 300, 250 dollar cards yet ?


Can only hope its faster then 780, and 50-100$ less to boot. That would be a decent amount of progress. Still, NV will most likely release a "titan 2.0" with maxwell. With like what? 5,000 cores?

After all, amd is doing the same thing to Nv that they did to Intel "here, you can keep that 1,000$ market" =(


----------



## Ukkooh

Do you seriously think amd is just going to give up when 20nm arrives? Most likely they have focused on the upcoming 20nm cards and this is a dirty quickly thrown together chip. Mark my words, next gen difference between amd and Nvidia flagships is 3% at max.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Do you seriously think amd is just going to give up when 20nm arrives? Most likely they have focused on the upcoming 20nm cards and this is a dirty quickly thrown together chip. Mark my words, next gen difference between amd and Nvidia flagships is 3% at max.


Sorry, but being 19 months since 7970, this is not a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


----------



## azanimefan

if this actually paces or beats the titan, and is priced at $600; then all those people who supported nvidia's price gouging for the past 7 months are going to have egg on their face.


----------



## Phantom123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry, but being 19 months since 7970, this is not a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


I actually had to look that up. Its more like 21 months which is really jaw dropping. Cant believe its been that long since another major graphic card.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Can only hope its faster then 780, and 50-100$ less to boot. That would be a decent amount of progress. Still, NV will most likely release a "titan 2.0" with maxwell. With like what? 5,000 cores?
> 
> After all, amd is doing the same thing to Nv that they did to Intel "here, you can keep that 1,000$ market" =(


Nvidia can only do such a thing on 20nm and they need the process to be mature enough for such a big die
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry, but being 19 months since 7970, this is not a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


Those new architectures are designed way ahead as we speak they have 3 architectures in the work probably


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Anything more then $599 i will be disappointed.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> if this actually paces or beats the titan, and is priced at $600; then all those people who supported nvidia's price gouging for the past 7 months are going to have egg on their face.


Anyone who supports price gouging, from either company is a total nub, & should be ignored.

also, 20nm is a WHOLE nother ball park.... Out of the ballpark, on a different planet. These are not NAND flash chips, they are GPU's.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> Lol I think the R9 290X name is terrible too. It doesn't mean anything.
> 
> If this really does beat a titan, I wouldn't be surprised (though I would be disappointed) to see it cost as much as one.


If it's faster than a Titan, AMD can call it whatever they want to and they will sell plenty of them.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> I dont understand this, its gonna be just a bit faster than your card, why dont you just wait for maxwell ? Or get a used one and SLI ? I understand if it was much faster, but its a merely 5-10%.
> 
> Or i just totally misunderstood your comment and you're not talking about the 290x...
> 
> Anyone has news about the 300, 250 dollar cards yet ?


There is a minority of people that have huge budgets. They will buy 2 780s just to test them out.


----------



## CynicalUnicorn

I just realized: their entry level cards will have 256-bit buses if the 512-bit holds true for all high end GPUs. The sub-$200 low end comparatively pieces of crap will be competent at 1080p.


----------



## skupples

Where are people getting the 5-10% metric from?


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sorry, but being 19 months since 7970, this is not a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


I guess that would depend on how you define "quick and dirty". It really doesn't seem like this is something they've been working towards for a while (reference their earlier comments this year about the 7970 being their top-line card for the rest of the year, for example), but rather something they decided to do when it became apparent that 20nm wasn't going to be ready as soon as they thought. Remember everyone thought initially that 20nm might be available at the end of this year or early next, so if AMD was planning on just riding it out with the 7970 until they could launch a 20nm chip, and realized that wouldn't work when 20nm isn't going to be ready until June-ish, then yes, it could be a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

If it is a quick and dirty thrown together chip then its even more amazing if these leaked performance numbers are at stock clocks...


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I guess that would depend on how you define "quick and dirty". It really doesn't seem like this is something they've been working towards for a while (reference their earlier comments this year about the 7970 being their top-line card for the rest of the year, for example), but rather something they decided to do when it became apparent that 20nm wasn't going to be ready as soon as they thought. Remember everyone thought initially that 20nm might be available at the end of this year or early next, so if AMD was planning on just riding it out with the 7970 until they could launch a 20nm chip, and realized that wouldn't work when 20nm isn't going to be ready until June-ish, then yes, it could be a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


True, but they could have said anything back then to try and kill any possible rumors until they had a for sure release time frame.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> If it is a quick and dirty thrown together chip then its even more amazing if these leaked performance numbers are at stock clocks...


No kidding. That is another reason I say this is not a quick and dirty chip.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> True, but they could have said anything back then to try and kill any possible rumors until they had a for sure release time frame.
> No kidding. That is another reason I say this is not a quick and dirty chip.


You know HD 4870. Thats card that really surprised us all? That was in works before any news about 8800 GTX. Cards take time to develop.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You know HD 4870. Thats card that really surprised us all? That was in works before any news about 8800 GTX. Cards take time to develop.


I know, that is what I was saying. I think AMD has been working on this card for a while and the mention that the 7970 would be the top single gpu card from AMD for 2013 was a diversionary tactic at best.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I know, that is what I was saying. I think AMD has been working on this card for a while and the mention that the 7970 would be the top single gpu card from AMD for 2013 was a diversionary tactic at best.


Thinking the same. I mean we had leaks/news of 20nm not being ready for some time, even when they touted "7970 stable through 2013"


----------



## Jared Pace

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Where are people getting the 5-10% metric from?


Looks more like 3-4% from the OP


----------



## skupples

Th 20nm stuff is still 1-2 generations out folks. What's the material called? Fin Fet? The stuff that isn't even being properly mass produced yet to fuel a line of gpu's.

The info "leaked" was always EXTREMELY sketchy @ best.


----------



## Acefire

Believable. ITs like you guys are forgetting that the Titan has been out for some time now....


----------



## rationalthinking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acefire*
> 
> Believable. ITs like you guys are forgetting that the Titan has been out for some time now....


Yeah..

Everyone forgets GK110-400 was released in February.. February! ***?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

It really is too bad AMD couldn't get the R9 out sooner (like around the time the 780 released). Would've changed the whole landscape (at least if its on par with the 780 as these leaks have shown)...


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> I guess that would depend on how you define "quick and dirty". It really doesn't seem like this is something they've been working towards for a while (reference their earlier comments this year about the 7970 being their top-line card for the rest of the year, for example), but rather something they decided to do when it became apparent that 20nm wasn't going to be ready as soon as they thought. Remember everyone thought initially that 20nm might be available at the end of this year or early next, so if AMD was planning on just riding it out with the 7970 until they could launch a 20nm chip, and realized that wouldn't work when 20nm isn't going to be ready until June-ish, then yes, it could be a quick and dirty thrown together chip.


I also think it's like that. They were ambushed by NVIDIA's large-die moves and 20nm being late.


----------



## Papadope

It's not quick and dirty. AMD's graphics division has not been sitting on their heels. They are moving full steam ahead pushing to gain market share and reputation in the gaming community. It is being announced tomorrow, that doesn't mean the new cards are going to be available tomorrow. Even if they are, it's still the large majority of 2013 that the 7970 has remained their top of the line single GPU card.

The way I see it is AMD is actually starting to squeeze Nvidia harder than ever on desktop chips. I know the market share reports aren't showing this but it's there and Nvidia has been doing a fantastic job in increasing profit margins and sales during the period. However, I don't think it can be sustained. Sure is interesting times in the GPU sector.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hydroplane*
> 
> Lol I think the R9 290X name is terrible too. It doesn't mean anything.
> 
> If this really does beat a titan, I wouldn't be surprised (though I would be disappointed) to see it cost as much as one.


























Not sure if serious... or very...


----------



## nitrubbb

I for one will for the first time go all red


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> But in all seriousness paying of debt while keeping afloat is what AMD did they paid their 6 billion debt and can now go producong black numbers again (they already were but used it to pay debt)


You know, I keep hearing that, but their total debt went from $4.7B in 2009 to $2.4B in 2010, to $2.0B in 2011, and then stayed at $2.0B in 2012. In 2013 it's been steady at $2.0B. So unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing where they paid off $6B in debt.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> You know, I keep hearing that, but their total debt went from $4.7B in 2009 to $2.4B in 2010, to $2.0B in 2011, and then stayed at $2.0B in 2012. In 2013 it's been steady at $2.0B. So unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing where they paid off $6B in debt.


You'll never know where this "debt" is. It might be to GF.
Just like Singapore having said to have a 114% debt to GDP debt despite being the only country in the world with ZERO external debt, all the money is elsewhere


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ftimster*
> 
> We will c personally I think AMD is a sinking ship.......


oh... how you wish


----------



## RocketAbyss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> You'll never know where this "debt" is. It might be to GF.
> Just like *Singapore* having said to have a 114% debt to GDP debt despite being the only country in the world with ZERO external debt, all the money is elsewhere


----------



## $ilent

anyone know how long it is til the official reveal today?


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> anyone know how long it is til the official reveal today?


Just short of 10 hours http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bHfmM6QYWNM


----------



## Forceman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> anyone know how long it is til the official reveal today?


10 hours. 1500 EDT.


----------



## JoeChamberlain

AMD is smashing it right now, what with chips in the XBone and PS4 to keep up wth diminshing PC sales, actively bouncing back and coming out with good cards that compete well with NVidia.

NVidia and AMD are both good brands, comparing them is pointless, their GPUs are rougly on par as per "bang for buck". One company always is always coming back with a better card at some point, but define better?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoeChamberlain*
> 
> but define better?


better will always differ for each person, some people may want the best performance for the price, others, like me, want to know which one wins in benchmarks at maximum overclocks


----------



## JoeChamberlain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> better will always differ for each person, some people may want the best performance for the price, others, like me, want to know which one wins in benchmarks at maximum overclocks


Yes, my point exactly. Couldn't find the right words. There's no outright winner is what I mean.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Just short of 10 hours http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bHfmM6QYWNM


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forceman*
> 
> 10 hours. 1500 EDT.


cheers


----------



## JJ1217

5 am for me. CBF lol, will just read tomorrow morning.

My body is ready, but not my wallet.


----------



## jlw777

Hope AMD opens up the tap... Imagine German car manufacturers scrapped their gentlemen agreement of limiting cars @ 250km/h. This is the equivalent for discreet GPU sector


----------



## JoeChamberlain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JJ1217*
> 
> 5 am for me. CBF lol, will just read tomorrow morning.
> 
> My body is ready, but not my wallet.


Yeah, likewise, must start saving! Love your signature poem by the way...


----------



## Zackotsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JoeChamberlain*
> 
> Love your signature poem by the way...


ahahahaha..this made my day..


----------



## pokerapar88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jlw777*
> 
> Hope AMD opens up the tap... Imagine German car manufacturers scrapped their gentlemen agreement of limiting cars @ 250km/h. This is the equivalent for discreet GPU sector


I believe the right comparative should be with the gentlemens agreement in japan where cars where limited to 180km/h and had 300+hp


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> oh... how you wish


IDK why any sane person would wish a one sided market, in anything.

borked record inc...

AMD needs a big win, with gpu & drivers. Hopefully this is it.

& no, my titans will not get any slower when this chip releases... They will still be Titans & still destroy anything i throw at them. I game @ 60hz. If people haven't noticed, most benchmarker's are now competing to break 160fps.(dual card)


----------



## -Droid-

http://www.techpowerup.com/191440/radeon-r9-280x-is-rebranded-hd-7970-ghz-edition.html

Anyone seen this ?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191440/radeon-r9-280x-is-rebranded-hd-7970-ghz-edition.html
> 
> Anyone seen this ?


Yeah they will rebrand 7970 like nvidia rebrand 680 into a 770


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191440/radeon-r9-280x-is-rebranded-hd-7970-ghz-edition.html
> 
> Anyone seen this ?


Nice find. Looks like they are copying Nvidia.


----------



## $ilent

rebranded 7970? I dont understand that.

Why would they sell thier current 7970s for insanely low prices (£240), if they are just gonna release a new rebadged one in few weeks? Doesnt make sense...


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> It would be nice to see the faces of those AMD fanboys who were laughing at NV for rebranding their gpus.
> 
> *Queues up for rebranded 7970*


Once again, any of those people who were loling @ rebranding have probably not been around very long. Rebranding is part of the GPU game, since the beginning of time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> rebranded 7970? I dont understand that.
> 
> Why would they sell thier current 7970s for insanely low prices (£240), if they are just gonna release a new rebadged one in few weeks? Doesnt make sense...


Rebranding can include, but not be limited to. Different software, different power phases, different... Oh wait, that's already been done with 7970, every which way you can...

I'm curious about this too, considering there is a 7970 for every color of the rainbow @ this point.


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> It would be nice to see the faces of those AMD fanboys who were laughing at NV for rebranding their gpus.
> 
> *Queues up for rebranded 7970*


Don't necessarily know that i saw anyone laughing per say but most (both camps alike) called it like it was and didn't buy into the 770 hype. 770 is a great card but was never anything more than a rebranded 680. Just like a normal refresh. Yet there was a ton of hype around it's release almost as much as the 780. Or at least that's how i remember it. Hell i had a friend wanting to get a 770 to upgrade his 670







400$ for 10% increase in performance is well financially inept.

Both camps are due refreshes of Tahiti and Kepler the only change to the mix was GK110 which forced AMD's Hawaii. So to a good degree we all must be secretly thanking Nvidia







lol

That said we've had a seriously long cycle of GPU stagnation up until Titan.

Kind of expected this. It will be interesting to see what the 280x clocks at. Wonder if they could've gotten it up to 1200mhz?


----------



## Durquavian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> rebranded 7970? I dont understand that.
> 
> Why would they sell thier current 7970s for insanely low prices (£240), if they are just gonna release a new rebadged one in few weeks? Doesnt make sense...


not exactly the same possibly. Upgraded components, better binned gpu and such like the 770-680 likeness


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Droid-*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/191440/radeon-r9-280x-is-rebranded-hd-7970-ghz-edition.html
> 
> Anyone seen this ?


Yeah, that was to be expected, not a bad thing, to have an overclocked 7970 GE competing in the GTX 760 price bracket, TPU say a different board design and a slightly higher clock, so 1100Mhz?


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## Newbie2009

Only way a rebrand of the HD7970 will be acceptable and not a complete waste of time is if it slots into the HD7870 segment and not into the HD7950 segment.


----------



## Abundant Cores

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Only way a rebrand of the HD7970 will be acceptable and not a complete waste of time is if it slots into the HD7870 segment and not into the HD7950 segment.


Which is where it is

R9 290X = Hawaii XT
R9 290 = Hawaii Pro

R9 280X = Tahiti XT (7970)
R9 280 = Tahiti Pro (7950)


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Which is where it is
> 
> R9 290X = Hawaii XT
> R9 290 = Hawaii Pro
> 
> R9 280X = Tahiti XT (7970)
> R9 280 = Tahiti Pro (7950)


Not if the above compete with Titan and 780, price wise, would put it at GTX 770/HD7950 level, if you get what I mean.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abundant Cores*
> 
> Which is where it is
> 
> R9 290X = Hawaii XT
> R9 290 = Hawaii Pro
> 
> R9 280X = Tahiti XT (7970)
> R9 280 = Tahiti Pro (7950)


I hope they atleast modify the 7970 core for the lower power usage with GCN 1.2

Lower power usage and a Slight Overclock, GTX770 is now pointless.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Not if the above compete with Titan and 780, price wise, would put it at GTX 770/HD7950 level, if you get what I mean.


The 280x will compete with the gtx770 for price and performance. Why would it be any other way? 7970 already matches the gtx770....


----------



## JJ1217

Reading all over the youtube comments on the AMD livestream, apparently the price is confirmed to $500 for the R9 290X. I doubt its true, but quite a few people are saying it all over the comments, and I haven't seen any articles talking about the pricing. If it was $500, it would be legendary, but also a little concerning (AMD probably wouldn't release a titan/780 killer for $500 unless they wanted to COMPLETELY and UTTERLY undercut Nvidia and completely take the top end market) <-- joke


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hukkel*
> 
> No it doesn't. Perhaps in straight line speed. All other ways to compere them the Corvette loses by a mile distance.
> 
> Think about it people. A die size 30% lower, yet wins in performance and is 300 € cheaper.
> 
> Ever heard of the phrase; if it sounds to good to be true....it usually is?
> 
> I want to be a believer, oh I want to be a believer, I want Nvidia to cry and get their stuck up heads out of their behinds. But I cannot believe this. I just cannot.
> The architecture would need to be crazy good. As in a leap of technology.
> 
> No sorry, I don't buy this.


A bit off topic but, Corvettes are built to outgun, out handle, and out break the specific Ferraris they are designed to compete against in performance. For example, the ZR1 uses massive, $10,000 brake discs and calipers bigger than it's Ferrari counterpart, and beat the Ferrari around Nurberring (terrible spellig on that I know).


----------



## Baghi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Nice find. Looks like they are copying Nvidia.


They better be copying NVIDIA (not price-wise).

NVIDIA rebranded GTX 680 as GTX 770 and sold for hell a lot less but before this they also introduced two very new members to their Kepler family (aka GTX Titan and GTX 780).


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> I hope they atleast modify the 7970 core for the lower power usage with GCN 1.2
> 
> Lower power usage and a Slight Overclock, GTX770 is now pointless.
> The 280x will compete with the gtx770 for price and performance. Why would it be any other way? 7970 already matches the gtx770....


I want it to compete price wise with the GTX 760
With the two cards above at say $500 & $600.

I would also like a pony.


----------



## Lagpirate

Watching this thread like a hawk. Very interesting happenings here. I really hope amd sticks it to nvidia here. Competition is good for all of us.


----------



## skupples

Me too... I hope its @ least 10% faster then titan, and only 600$. That will set Maxwell up very well. Though, this all feels like corporate fixing.


----------



## hotrod717

Not long now! Unfortunately I'll be driving to work as the livecasr unfolds. Probably be until 6pm est until I find out just how good this new offering from AMD is going to be. However, I'll probably end up running 7970's in crossfire until prices drop. Maybe a fresh gpu in the spring. You never know when that upgrade bug will hit though!


----------



## $ilent

I would love to believe it, but theres no logical way the 290x will be close to $500 if it beats a titan.

It just seems like one of those too good to be true things.

Remember when the 780 came out? I was considering it as people specukated the price would be low, i was hoping under £400. But it was £600 when released...which is obviously not good value nor a bargain.


----------



## wstanci3

My Hope: $599
My Prediction : $650


----------



## $ilent

My hope is under £400.

Just looking at it id probably be happy if the normal 290 gpu is under £400 since thats meant to conpete with the gtx 780 and on bf3 at 1440 the difference is only 10fps.

Ofc if the price difference between 290 and 290x is less than £100 ill probably get the 290x.


----------



## skupples

Idk hw much real data we will get today.... Probably 80% hype 10% coll graphics 10% hard facts.


----------



## $ilent

So long as they give me UK prices I dont care, least then I can stop guessing.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

So is the live stream going to be on Youtube or what?


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> So is the live stream going to be on Youtube or what?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHfmM6QYWNM#t=455


----------



## Jack Mac




----------



## 6steven9

it's broken right now said they are fixing it..... so first fail for amd today lets see what else


----------



## Milestailsprowe

If they can give me something more powerful than 7970 for under $280 I'm down


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Milestailsprowe*
> 
> If they can give me something more powerful than 7970 for under $280 I'm down


There will only be 2 new chips. Everything else is going to be rebranded 7 series cards


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There will only be 2 new chips. Everything else is going to be rebranded 7 series cards


7970 for $200-250 would be a great deal as well


----------



## Milestailsprowe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There will only be 2 new chips. Everything else is going to be rebranded 7 series cards


cool so the 7970 is the new 7870? I would have grabbed the $200 7950 but these were being revealed. My biggest issue is length. The sg05 can only take up to 10.5 inches long


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Milestailsprowe*
> 
> cool so the 7970 is the new 7870? I would have grabbed the $200 7950 but these were being revealed. My biggest issue is length. The sg05 can only take up to 10.5 inches long


That's what she said!


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Milestailsprowe*
> 
> cool so the 7970 is the new 7870? I would have grabbed the $200 7950 but these were being revealed. My biggest issue is length. The sg05 can only take up to 10.5 inches long


7970 is rebranded the 280X and starts at 299.99 usd


----------



## Milestailsprowe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 7970 is rebranded the 280X and starts at 299.99 usd




Yeah but if the new hotness at AMD is $100 more then I'll save up. If not then the 280X


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 7970 is rebranded the 280X and starts at 299.99 usd


Would have liked to see $250 for the 280X. And if the 290X outperforms the titan then it's probably way too expensive for a GPU. Just hoping the 290 is good and priced reasonably or the titan/780 gets a large price cut.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Milestailsprowe*
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but if the new hotness at AMD is $100 more then I'll save up. If not then the 280X


I full expect the 290X at 499.99. It will NOT be 399.99


----------



## Milestailsprowe

I hope they make a card of the 290x with less then 10.5 inchs long.


----------



## skupples

I only got to see from bf4 on... What did those who were stuck in traffic miss?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I only got to see from bf4 on... What did those who were stuck in traffic miss?


Audio and spaceships.


----------



## Neb9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dangur*


ummm?? No 780Ti?
Not exactly a fair benchmark if your are comparing the 290x to lower models than its competitor.

To be fair this benchmark was probably done in the single month that the 290x held the record for singe GPU. Then came the 780Ti and changed that. And there is also the Titan Black Edition for higher resolutions.

But then there is the 290x2 that is way better than either of them. There is no 790 to be a competitor to the 290x2.. yet. And the Titan Z is not a proper competitor as the Titan was originally meant for work stations not for gaming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC1SsnS6naA


----------



## S1L3Nt

I have no idea if you are trolling by necroing this post.... You do realize this post was dated before the release of the 780Ti right?


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neb9*
> 
> ummm?? No 780Ti?
> Not exactly a fair benchmark if your are comparing the 290x to lower models than its competitor.
> 
> To be fair this benchmark was probably done in the single month that the 290x held the record for singe GPU. Then came the 780Ti and changed that. And there is also the Titan Black Edition for higher resolutions.
> 
> But then there is the 290x2 that is way better than either of them. There is no 790 to be a competitor to the 290x2.. yet. And the Titan Z is not a proper competitor as the Titan was originally meant for work stations not for gaming.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC1SsnS6naA


Not only did you necro, but a rumor thread at that....and complained a product, that did not exist at the time this was posted or discused, is missing.

Did you just Google search "AMD GPu thread" and plan on complaining in some way?


----------



## Neb9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neb9*
> 
> To be fair this benchmark was probably done in the single month that the 290x held the record for singe GPU.


Look ^^^

@jomama22
@S1L3Nt

I searched "GPU benchmark" into ONC and this is the first thing that came up. And I did not look at the date.


----------



## jomama22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neb9*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Look ^^^
> 
> @jomama22
> @S1L3Nt


I think this is going completely over your head. You complain to people who were talking about the 290x before the 780ti existed. So in essence, who were you having the discussion with? Did you just stream of conscious your feelings toward the 290x in some random thread that had its name in the title?

Either you're trolling or you are the definition of ignorance is bliss


----------



## Neb9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jomama22*
> 
> I think this is going completely over your head. You complain to people who were talking about the 290x before the 780ti existed. So in essence, who were you having the discussion with? Did you just stream of conscious your feelings toward the 290x in some random thread that had its name in the title?
> 
> Either you're trolling or you are the definition of ignorance is bliss


I said "To be fair this benchmark was probably done in the single month that the 290x held the record for singe GPU." Yes after looking at the comments I realized that this thread was made before the 780 Ti was released. And I just looked at the benchmark and I did not read the post.

So my post is invalid.
I can remove it if it pleases you.


----------



## erocker

Yes, it would please me.


----------



## szeged

we all make mistakes, let the thread go back to sleep instead of continuing to argue about it.


----------

