# Gaming and mouse response BIOS optimization guide for modern PC hardware



## r0ach

*BIOS

UEFI vs Legacy boot* Legacy with CSM enabled tends to give me a more traditional mouse movement feel, while the times I've tested UEFI with CSM off, it gave me a more floaty mouse cursor type movement. This setting will probably be very subjective to a lot of people depending on what mouse, mouse settings, and surface you use, but my experience so far is that legacy tends to be better with a more classic mouse movement.

1) *BCLK*: you want this to be 100.00, not 100 point random number. The closest you can get this to 100.00, the better. Many board makers have BCLK overclocking features built into their BIOS to try and cheat at benchmarks for hardware review sites. The Gigabyte z77 UD5H is one example of this. Leaving BCLK at AUTO, or manually setting it to 100.00 gets you an unwanted number like 100.1 on the UD5H. Manually setting it to 100.01 gets me 100.03. This is the closest to a flat 100 I can get on this board due to spread spectrum being a hidden setting. Disable spread spectrum to try and fix the last part if you can.

2) *Memory Strap / Memory Multiplier*: Since this is an overclocking website, many people love to crank this number as high as it can go. The only problem is, high bandwidth and the resulting high latency is not conducive to a positive game play experience. The ram I have installed can do 2133mhz @ 11-11-11-28, but 1600mhz @ 7-8-7-24 provides a much better feeling mouse response. Some people will claim the difference is impossible to feel, but I assure you that it is, at least once you have eliminated all other sources of high latency in your system. This is also due to 133 vs 100 memory ratios. 100:100 with 1600mhz should obviously provide better results since it matches BCLK. If you cannot tell the difference between changing settings like this in mouse response, you most likely have other latency bottlenecks.

3) *Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc*: You want to disable as many of these as possible because they bring a lot of lag. On the Asus Z77 board, using a Steelseries firmware updater for a mouse seems to fail on Win8 if you disable "C3 State Report" and "C6 State Report". I didn't have this issue on the Gigabyte board, so it seems to vary by motherboard.

4) *PWM Phase Control* - Set this to max phases. There's a noticeable difference between auto with power saving modes turned on and maximum phases on most motherboards.

5) *Hyper Threading* - If you disable HPET, you most likely do not want to run any virtual cores.

6) *Vcore* - Usually best to manually set Vcore since it seems to disable dynamic power features on some motherboards. Large difference between manual setting Vcore and auto on my Asus z77, but not as big on Gigabyte z77.

7) *PEG Gen3 Slot Configuration*: I get better results by manually setting this instead of leaving it on auto. Set it to Gen3 if you have an Ivy Bridge or higher CPU + a PCI-E 3.0 GPU, otherwise, use Gen2.

8) *Execute Disable Bit* I disable it just because the odds of any negative effects outweigh the security benefit. Traditionally a setting disabled by overclockers anyway.

9) *Intel Virtualization Technology* - disabled for any gaming PC obviously. Virtualization and it's services tend to be resource heavy and no reason to have it on for a gaming PC.

10) *1394 controller* - disable in order to reduce DPC latency unless you actually use it for some reason, probably 99% of people don't.

11) *xHCI pre-boot driver / xHCI mode / xHCI hand-off* - Long story short, you want as few USB controllers active at once as possible, and I would say mice perform objectively worse on USB 3 controllers. Raising bandwidth on the same architecture tends to require more buffering and latency, so it's not hard to see why USB 3 would be worse for mice.

12) *eHCI hand-off* - No reason to have this turned on for Win7 or higher. Win7 should natively support USB 2.0, so disable it.

13) *On-board audio* - Disable. Enormous input lag.

14) *On-board video* - Disable unless you actually use it.

15) *HPET (High Precision Event Timer)* - disable to dramatically lower mouse lag and DPC latency

Explanation from software engineer for why TSC is superior and HPET should never be forced as the default clock except in a server environment:

*http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9*

16) *Secondary ATA controllers (Marvell, etc)* - disable to lower DPC latency

17) *Secondary LAN* - disable to lower DPC latency

18) *Legacy USB support* - usually have to leave this enabled in order to get back into the BIOS but sometimes will have better mouse response with it off. Varies highly by motherboard. Some boards will have out of control cursor movement with it off for some reason.

19) *LLC and PLL Overvoltage* - I've tested these a lot, and although people overclocking like to utilize them, I've found they do strange things to mouse movement. Generally anything involved with ramping up voltage response on the motherboard tends to make it feel like you have less a dead zone on the mouse where it's easier to overshoot with the cursor. I prefer to have both of these options off and seemed to dislike the effect of PLL overvoltage more than high LLC. You need to set PLL overvoltage to off instead of auto, because auto usually means turned on.

*Asus Specific Section

- Ai overclock tuner* - Manual
*- Asus Multicore Enhancement* - Disabled
*- Internal PLL Overvoltage* - Disabled
*- CPU bus sped : DRAM Speed Ratio* - 100:100
*- Memory Frequency* - 1600 mhz
*- EPU Power Saving Mode* - Disabled
*- Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology* - Disabled
*- Turbo Mode* - Disabled
*- CPU C1E* - Disabled
*- Package C State Support* - Disabled

*- C3 report* - as mentioned earlier, having C3 and C6 off on the Asus Z77 board causes the Steelseries firmware updater tool to fail on Win8. I'm not sure if it causes any other problems. Try with them on and off and see if you notice any issues. Maybe Steelseries just don't know how to code a firmware updater. You can probably turn them off without any other issues.

*- C6 report* - see above

*- Digi+ Power control

- CPU Load Line Calibration* - Regular
*- CPU Voltage Frequency* - Auto
*- VRM Spread Spectrum* - Disabled
*- CPU Power Phase Control* - Extreme
*- CPU Power Duty Control* - Extreme
*- CPU Power Response Control* - Regular
*- Dram Voltage Frequency* - Auto
*- Dram Power Phase Control* - Extreme

*- CPU Voltage* - Manual (you have to manually input a voltage, mine is 1.07 for stock Ivy Bridge, don't leave it on auto, it makes a big difference on this board. You don't have to change any of the other voltages though besides maybe RAM)
*- CPU Spread Spectrum* - Disabled
*- BCLK Recovery* - Disabled
*- Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor* - Disabled
*- Hyper Threading* - Disabled
*- Execute Disable Bit* - Disabled
*- Intel Virtualization* - Disabled
*- S.M.A.R.T. Status Check* - Disabled
*- High Precision Timer* - Disabled
*- Intel Rapid Start* - Disabled
*- Intel Smart Connect* - Disabled
*- Initiate Graphic Adapter* - PCIE
*- iGPU Multi-Monitor* - Disabled
*- Render Standby* - Disabled
*- PCIEx16_1 Link Speed* - manually set to Gen3. If you have older than an Ivy Bridge CPU or a PCIE 2.0 video card, then manually set it to Gen2.
*- Intel USB 2.0 EHCI controller* - Enabled
*- Legacy USB Support* - for most motherboards this is better off, this board is kind of a mystery. It doesn't detect USB sticks properly after turning it off and might cause issues with mouse functionality as well. Seems to be a no win situation either way.
*- Legacy USB 3.0 support* - Disabled
*- Intel xHCI mode* - Disabled
*- EHCI Hand-off* - Disabled
*- HD Audio Controller* - Disabled
*- Bluetooth* - Disabled
*- Wi-fi controller* - Disabled
*- Marvell Storage* - Disabled
*- ASM1061 Storage Controller* - Disabled
*- Asmedia USB 3.0 controller* - Disabled
*- Overvoltage protection* - Disabled (it's under the monitor tab at bottom)
*- Wait for F1 if Error* - Disabled

*If you're using Win 8.1, here's the 22 step Windows 8.1 install guide with all services and settings included*

*http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware-2014-r0ach-edition/1020#post_23338511*

*How to run or re-run Windows experience index in Win 8.1*

*http://www.overclock.net/t/1530467/why-many-people-have-horrible-mouse-movement-and-dont-know-why-in-win-8-1*

*De-crapifying Win 10 v 0.1 post*
*http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/1870#post_24310929*

*Software*

1) *Intel Chipset Software* - Don't need to install it if your chipset already has drivers covered in Win8.1

2) *Intel Management Engine Interface* - Don't install. Latency fest related to Vpro and other stuff most people don't use.

3) *Lucid MVP* - don't install, latency fest, useless

4) *Java* uninstall it and other malware with a resident memory footprint

5) *Mouse software* uninstall and use on-board memory settings because 99% of mouse software is coded poorly and turns native DPI steps into interpolated while it's intalled / active, totally defeating the purpose of a gaming mouse in the first place.

6) *Intel Rapid Storage* - I don't use RST because it has more latency than the default Microsoft one, although it probably performs better.

7) *Intel Network Connections Ethernet Driver* - Don't install if your driver is already included in Win 8.1. If using Win7, then during the install screen, you want to uncheck "Proset" and "advanced teaming and VLAN" section.

The 19.3 driver also has huge problems on Z77 and maybe other boards. I would use an earlier version such as 19.0 instead. Version 19.3 + 19.5 causes constant 6000 DPC spikes and is probably the worst driver I've ever seen:



9) *Adobe Flash* - much like Java, this program adds a large amount of system latency. Some people can't live without it though.

*Windows Components*

To get to these, you go to Control Panel > Programs and Features > "Turn Windows features on or Off"

*Windows 7 Section*

1) *Windows Gadget Platform* - The first two items in this list give you a noticeable change on desktop mouse response. I'm not sure which one does the most since I disable both at the same time.

2) *Tablet PC Components* - see above description

3) *Uninstall Internet Exploder 8* - Updating IE in Win 7 gets you other Windows updates that you may or may not want like KB2670838.

*Windows 8 Section*

Uninstall the following until the menu looks like this:


Internet Exploder 11 - first turn smooth scrolling off in options menu of IE, then under the about section, turn off automatic updating for it
Print and document services
SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support
Windows Location Provider
Windows Powershell 2.0
Work folders client
XPS services
XPS viewer



*Services*

If your mouse doesn't feel snappy enough at this point, you should try disabling the following Windows services in this order:

1) *Print Spooler* - I always disable this because Microsoft seems to give a lot of priority to what the printer wants

2) *Windows Defender* - This one is hugely noticeable in Win8 and still pretty easy to notice in Win7. Go to the start menu, in the search box type "Windows Defender" and open it. Go to Tools/Options, then go to the last tab at the bottom and uncheck the box labeled "Use this Program". It turns off the service and sets the service to manual automatically.

3) *Windows Search* - can get rid of it

4) *Defrag* - type defrag in windows search box, turn off scheduled defrag

5) *Windows Update* - Set service to manual instead of automatic and it will not start unless you need it instead of running 24/7

6) *Human Interface Device Access* - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard, but it also has a large effect on mouse movement and makes one of the biggest differences on the list. Some people might prefer mouse movement with it on, but most will probably like it off. If you plug in a Kana v2 mouse with a PS/2 keyboard installed and this service set to manual, the service doesn't launch. It's mostly used for keyboards and some mice that have keyboard emulation for macros.

7) *Superfetch* - Win 7 usually disables this by default if you're running an SSD after you let your system idle, but Win 8 keeps it running for TRIM scheduling. I would disable it in both Win7 and Win8 and then turn off superfetch and prefetch in the registry afterwards.

8) *Time Broker* (Win8 only) - If you want to disable metro apps, you can't set the service to disabled using the service manager and have to do it with regedit:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker

Change the "Start" key to 4 instead of 3 to disable it

*SSD Registry Settings*

If your boot drive is an SSD, first you need to disable the superfetch service, then change the following registry settings:

Hkey_Local_Machine > System > Current Control Set > Control > Session Manager > Memory Management > Prefetch Parameters

And change the following two settings to "0" instead of "3":

1) EnablePrefetcher - unneeded for SSD
2) EnableSuperfetch - unneeded for SSD

*Keyboard* - A PS/2 keyboard with no USB devices plugged in except the mouse is the most optimal setup for mouse movement. I personally use brown switches with 40A-R o-rings. The travel distance is way too high without the o-rings. I don't like red switches that much because they're more prone to error and misclicks in both typing and gaming.

If forced to use USB, you don't want a keyboard with a 1000hz polling rate because USB controllers aren't good at handling multiple high polling rate devices at the same time, so get a 125hz one if using USB. You also don't want to have any other USB devices like gamepads or phones plugged in while you aren't using them either.

Some PS/2 and USB keyboards can cause issues though. The Steelseries 6gv2 I tested caused really bogged down cursor movement in both USB and PS/2 mode for some reason:

*http://www.overclock.net/t/1531608/never-seen-a-keyboard-cause-swamp-cursor-till-the-steelseries-6gv2*

*Sound*

1) Set your bitrate to 16bit 44.1k, anything higher causes a huge hit to mouse response.

2) Settings like CMSS, EAX, Crystallizer, etc, all need to be disabled

*Nvidia issues that cause lag*

Nvidia has something in device manager on Win8.1 called "Nvidia Virtual Audio" that's used when streaming to a mobile device. This is a lagfest that needs to be disabled. You probably want to disable the Nvidia HDMI audio in device manager as well under the sound section.





*Nvidia specific software

*Somewhere between the "miracle driver" and 344.11 drivers, the Nvidia input lag issues seem to have been greatly fixed. **

This is what your Nvidia control panel should look like. Anti aliasing does add latency, so I force it off. Texture filtering is going to occur regardless, so it doesn't really matter what you set your anisotropic filtering to.



Your Desktop scaling section of the control panel should be set to "Display - No scaling" like the following picture. I noticed a very annoying software issue when testing if there was any lag difference in my 570 reference card and 970 GTX. Cursor movement seems to go to crap after you change the scaling setting from whatever it was when the driver was first installed. So basically, on a fresh install, you want to install the Nvidia driver, go in and change the scaling tab to "Display - No Scaling", then uninstall the driver, reinstall it, and never touch that setting again. Sometimes just rebooting will fix it though.



Leaving scaling on anything else incurs a large amount of input lag, even in native resolution. "GPU - No scaling" is also much laggier than the "Display - No Scaling" setting. This is bad because if you plug in a Korean IPS panel, or any panel in with no hardware scaler, it forces you to use the extremely laggy "GPU - No Scaling" mode.

The only solution to this, is to use a custom .inf file and revert to a much older driver (267.59), before the scaling module was rewritten, then you can pick the "no scaling" option in the following picture for a lag free experience. You have to make sure that you don't install Windows update KB2670838 or Internet Explorer 10 (installs that update with it), or you will get blue screen page faults with older Nvidia + ATI drivers.



*Misc. Section

Chrome/Chromium* - tends to be overly GPU accelerated. Even after turning off hardware acceleration in settings, my GPU still goes to max 3d clocks while just browsing text pages on the internet. If you type "about:flags" in the browser, you can get to some GPU acceleration settings to disable, but my GPU won't go to idle clocks with Chromium unless I add "--disable-gpu" to the shortcut icon.

You will want to disable directwrite and accelerated 2d canvas in the about:flags menu to get rid of fuzzy text from crappy pixel aliasing.

*Steam* you will want to disable directwrite in the options menu of Steam because directwrite acceleration of text in browsers seems to bog down the cursor while they're open. Disable all the streaming options and other junk they're tossing in too.

*Firefox* disable hardware acceleration, automatic updates, crash reporter, etc, then go into the add-on section and disable automatic updates for the Cisco graphics plugin they've included for some unknown reason. I disable updates on it then turn it off myself.

*DPC Latency*

DPC Latency is mostly a measure of how ready, willing, and able a non-real time OS is to deal with requests from the user. It's not a measure of input lag, but will give you a good idea of possible problematic devices. You should get to around 28-32 if you can't disable HPET in the BIOS, or maybe as low as the screenshot from my system if you can:


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## gijs007

Although I agree with some of your points, I don't think anyone would notice some of the changes.
For example, I didn't do any of the things before step 11 for bios, And ignored every item under software(except for 2 Lucid MVP).

My DPC latency is 22 on a different motherboard than you have on Windows 8.1.
So unless someone actually has huge DPC latency problems you're not going to notice this because 1 us(millisecond) = 0.001 ms(microsecond) and I doubt anyone would notice a change smaller than 1/1000 of a second


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## r0ach

Like I already said in my post, DPC isn't a measure of input lag. It is a useful number, nonetheless.


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## Venrar

Is 60-70 high? That's what I'm currently getting after following most of the steps in your guide. HPET didn't change the number in any meaningful way.


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## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> Is 60-70 high? That's what I'm currently getting after following most of the steps in your guide. HPET didn't change the number in any meaningful way.


Around 30 is optimal for having HPET on, single digits is optimal with it off. If you have something like on-board audio enabled, it's probably going to be a lot higher.

Anything under 100-150 should probably not affect gaming fluidity. DPC's best use is identifying possible problematic system components, or identifying possible components that can be turned off that you don't use that may or may not be problematic in some way.


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## Berserker1

No windows tweaks? Or bad antiviruses like kaspersky that eats a lot of cpu and constantly monitors the system. I noticed better responsiveness after changing from Avira to Avast.

I did fresh install one time and it was less responsive than tweaked w7. I had same exact drivers, antivirus and software.

Something like hid input service or core parking might have had noticeable impact. Or other things that might eat cpu cycles or poll system for key press.

Does java really have a noticeable impact on latency? Dunno how to play minecraft without it.

Why not 0 pre rendered frames? You don't feel any difference between 0 and 1?
I know it cant be really 0, as it does not work that real time, but it doesn't default to 3 in most games, as 3 are noticeable delayed.


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## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Does java really have a noticeable impact on latency?


100% positive yes on that one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Why not 0 pre rendered frames? You dont feel any difference between 0 and 1?
> I know it cant be really 0, as it does not work that real time, but it doesnt default to 3 in most games, as 3 are noticeable delayed.


The lower you go, the bigger trade off there is for GPU utilization. A setting of 2 will usually receive little to no hit, at 1 it starts to get a penalty. A setting of 1 will usually have less tearing than 2 though, so 1 is really the best compromise number for me for delay, tearing, GPU utilization, and prevention of an engine defaulting to 3.

A pre-render setting of 0 is kind of mysterious setting. I first experimented using 0 around the release of Half Life 2 engine. Some games like Day of Defeat wouldn't even start with a setting of 0. Other games would work fine. A few games would have crazy tearing. There's really nothing concrete to say about a setting of 0 because it's outcome is just all over the place.

I think games like DoD Source eventually did start working with a pre-render 0 setting, but it's probably something to do with Nvidia possibly adding frames into their render que, regardless to what you set pre-render to.


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## deepor

It's missing on the current drivers. There is no 0 pre-rendered frames setting. The smallest you can set is 1. I have version 331.40 currently.


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## Berserker1

So you dont know about any windows tweaks?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 100% positive yes on that one.


Wow effect was quite noticeable even got few % of lg vs bots. My aim follows them a little better and I hear more hitsounds.

How can it have such effect on input latency?

Quote:


> The lower you go, the bigger trade off there is for GPU utilization. A setting of 2 will usually receive little to no hit, at 1 it starts to get a penalty. A setting of 1 will usually have less tearing than 2 though, so 1 is really the best compromise number for me for delay, tearing, GPU utilization, and prevention of an engine defaulting to 3.
> 
> A pre-render setting of 0 is kind of mysterious setting. I first experimented using 0 around the release of Half Life 2 engine. Some games like Day of Defeat wouldn't even start with a setting of 0. Other games would work fine. A few games would have crazy tearing. There's really nothing concrete to say about a setting of 0 because it's outcome is just all over the place.
> 
> I think games like DoD Source eventually did start working with a pre-render 0 setting, but it's probably something to do with Nvidia possibly adding frames into their render que, regardless to what you set pre-render to.


I don't remember exactly when I started using 0 frames (in 2010 for sure), but on old slow amd card it worked with no problems, only noticed reduction of max fps, but that's useless, min fps remained the same. Now on nvidia card it works fine, don't notice any reduction of fps.

About 1.5 months ago started using 1 just to try it, didn't see any improvement in fps(with eye, but its over 60 in all games) or tearing, but it feels different than 0 and 3. I only notice tearing at 400+ fps, at 1000+ everything is a staircase









What do you mean by gpu utilization? Does it really matter how much gpu is being utilized if min fps is same or even lower a little but there's less input lag.

Maybe you can test 0 more, I'm not 100% sure as I have slow monitor. Don't know how you test, but I test like this: aim slow and fast 90/180 degrees back and forth, "aimbot" between targets and notice how disconnected it is from my hand movement. With claw/fingertip grip its easier to tell than with palm.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It's missing on the current drivers. There is no 0 pre-rendered frames setting. The smallest you can set is 1. I have version 331.40 currently.


They got removed for higher numbers in 3d programs where camera moves by itself and more stable frametime numbers in tests.

Found a thread with more nvidia lies and taking 0 frames literally *https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523530/geforce-drivers/bring-back-pre-rendered-frames-0-/6/*


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## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Wow effect was quite noticeable even got few % of lg vs bots. My aim follows them a little better and I hear more hitsounds.
> How can it have such effect on input latency?


Java, at least every time I've tested with it installed before, keeps a resident memory footprint that intercepts calls for it's use. It really is a malware program in every sense of the word.

This kind of program really shouldn't exist in this day and age. Functionality like that should be built into browsers and much less intrusive to where it doesn't actually increase system latency.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> So you dont know about any windows tweaks?


edit: updated main post with Windows services


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## Tazzzz

wow didnt know that sandy bridge doesnt support hyper-threading why would intel do that. I do have an HT cpu tho and after disabling core parking i noticed that interrupt to process latency spikes dont occur while i'm playing dota2 or it is minimized to task pannel (dont know how to say that ) . When it was enabled i had 1.5ms spikes, now its 0.25ms


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## r0ach

updated original post:

If you own an LCD with no built in scaler (like the Korean IPS ones) and use an Nvidia driver such as 267.59 to try and avoid the huge input lag from the newer drivers forcing you to use "GPU-No Scaling" instead of "Display-No Scaling" (yes, the lag is in native resolution without even scaling), do not install Internet Explorer 10 or optional windows update KB2670838 ( *http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2670838* ). IE 10 installs that update automatically, and if you use older Nvidia or ATI drivers with that update, (mostly pre-Win8 era ones), you get blue screen page faults like the picture below:


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## Tazzzz

What do you think about upcoming g sync, roach www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/introducing-nvidia-g-sync-revolutionary-ultra-smooth-stutter-free-gaming


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## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tazzzz*
> 
> What do you think about upcoming g sync, roach http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/introducing-nvidia-g-sync-revolutionary-ultra-smooth-stutter-free-gaming


It infuriates me. They completely ignore their increasing driver input lag, then they release a proprietary, add-on solution similar to PHYSX to fragment the market that nobody thinks is a good idea except people that also through PHYSX was a good idea.

There's no real explanation for how it magically removes the giant amount of input lag their drivers have accumulated. They probably don't acknowledge they have any at all, then just claim they are removing scaler lag or something.

Fixing the vsync chop/stutter sounds doable with the hardware solution they're talking about, but I'd like to see LOTS more info on just how they are attempting to deal with input lag. Not fixing input lag for customers without a "g sync monitor" is also a huge slap in the face.


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## Berserker1

Its probably gonna increase input lag due to needing time for synchronization(but not like vsync) and lower monitor refresh rate when fps gets low, instead of throwing frames in as fast as gpu and monitor can display.
lol at fixing stuttering and heres SS3 dev AlenL about stuttering:
Quote:


> The issue (or absence thereof) that you are noticing, Vicarious, is most likely what is deemed "microstuttering". This is something that is caused by overzealous optimizations on the GPU driver side, and the whole affair started somewhere around ten years ago, IIRC.
> 
> This problem was apparent for nearly a decade now. But it was only earlier this year that we realized the actual cause of this: What most people see, in many games is that it is not that the framerate is not good, but that the game engine doesn't get proper feedback from the driver about what that framerate actually is. So, eg. you can have perfect 60fps (with Vsync on!), but the game gets the feedback that frames are rendered at 100fps and 45fps alternatingly, or at 65 fps for like ten frames and then one of 30, or any weird combination like that (I'm mostly making up these numbers now we've seen all kinds - anything is possible).
> 
> In all those cases, the average FPS is 60, but individual frames are timed wrong. Since the game has to prepare animations/physics etc for each successive frame based on how long the last frame lasted, having this reported wrong is what causes the animation to look jerky, even though it is rendering smoothly. It's a kind of a catch-22 - the animation is prepared for jerky framerate, and if the framerate really _was_ jerky, the animation would actually look fairly well. But since the framerate is perfect, the animation looks jerky.
> 
> We've been nagging IHVs about this, but the solution is not so simple.
> 
> In any case, earlier this year, we've patched SS3 to include a workaround (actually more of a hack) that tries to detect and alleviate such behavior of the driver. It is not perfect, but it helps for a lot of people. Like you, I suppose.


from
http://steamcommunity.com/app/41070/discussions/0/846965882771158437/


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## Tazzzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It infuriates me. They completely ignore their increasing driver input lag, then they release a proprietary, add-on solution similar to PHYSX to fragment the market that nobody thinks is a good idea except people that also through PHYSX was a good idea.
> 
> There's no real explanation for how it magically removes the giant amount of input lag their drivers have accumulated. They probably don't acknowledge they have any at all, then just claim they are removing scaler lag or something.
> 
> Fixing the vsync chop/stutter sounds doable with the hardware solution they're talking about, but I'd like to see LOTS more info on just how they are attempting to deal with input lag. Not fixing input lag for customers without a "g sync monitor" is also a huge slap in the face.


Yeah, your optimized PC will have less input lag than their g-sync one for sure cause they are dealing only with one part of input lag that comes from fps.

Probably people start asking why they have to play with 30 fps after paying thousands of dollars for their "4k" rig









I assume theoretically they can make 144 fps on 144 hz panel perform better lag-wise then 300 fps or 500 fps on the same 144hz panel without vsync. They just need their g-sync chip to produce very small amount of its oun latency and i wonder if display port has the same latency as duallink dvi or not. At this point it can be very tempting as you wouldnt need more then 144 fps at all, that would be less power consumtion less heat and noise for games that used to pull more then 144fps.

I dont know what to buy now







as i wanted to buy 290x and a new monitor for competitive csgo but it seems to be hot as hell and i really dont like that. Cant do your driver manipulation aswell cause csgo needs kepler driver to run well and that the main game i play.
Hell, these features really shouldn't be proprietary


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## Glymbol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> it's taken me a loooooooong time to track down the effects each one has on the actual user experience and not just benchmark scores


So you admit that you gauge effects of these tweaks "by feel"?


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## Hyolyn

Why force vertical sync off and note let application decide?
Also off threaded optimization, why?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glymbol*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> it's taken me a loooooooong time to track down the effects each one has on the actual user experience and not just benchmark scores
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit that you gauge effects of these tweaks "by feel"?
Click to expand...

There's really no other method. You have to rely on people with brains that work better than yours. I can feel a faint difference with different driver versions, but I'm never quite sure if I'm imagining things or not. But sometimes there's a massive difference and I feel there's really no arguing when that happens.

For example, I'm currently sitting at a Linux desktop and the mouse feels a lot better. I'm pretty convinced there's a difference. Is that real? How would I prove this?

The best method I can think of, at first I would need a video camera that can do a lot more than normal 24fps or 60fps. I would have to set up a shot that shows both my hand moving and the screen. I can't do that. I don't have that hardware, I don't know if that kind of camera even exists for a normal price, and it would also be a good amount of work.


----------



## Berserker1

Yes its nothing we can prove without special cameras and technical knowledge.

I first tried hpet long time ago, having no idea what it will improve and noticed huge response difference right when I booted to desktop. Same thing with C1E and Speedtep when I bought new supposedly faster but very delayed pc. Before I seen all this "placebo no technical explanation/high speed cam proven" fixes by r0ach.

Some things have have no or imperceivably effect and they do no input lag reduction. I cant force myself into a placebo effect or feel more responsive input with 125hz + raw input like someone said it does.

Majority of gamers play with very high and always different sensitivity(most cant even turn 180 degrees with one swift motion), play poor console ports without 1:1 movement, games with major input lag problems and find nothing strange about it, and think "that its how it supposed to be". Some may even take and believe in insulting "weighted weapon movement".

Same thing when source engine server has constant drops to 5-10fps (or stupid 30000 rate servers with constant choke for everyone), 95% of people just say they have "no lag must be ur pc/connection lol", even thought there is a thing that shows servers fps. Or not noticing extremely desynced melee animation in some source engine games.

Or lcd vs crt war: people denying and defending with "no lag for me", "human reaction is 200ms" bs to the bitter end.

And they also are clueless to much things, same thing was for me when I first started gaming years ago. I just didn't know what was happening and how things supposed to run and respond, but I didn't have good internet connection to write "placebo" on forums.


----------



## majkool

*DPC Latency* is only to check that there is no suspicious things working in system?
It's only to do stable average 30 on desktop, yes?

Btw. when I start the game CS:GO I have average latency about 500us it's ok?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## illwill

^ I agree with that, I tried most of the things in this guide and it made no difference when actually testing in game despite the lower readings. HPET off usually makes the mouse feel worse in fact. However I do agree with r0ach's findings on Nvidia drivers and use AMD instead because their drivers don't have input lag. It's possible that his guide is accurate for his specific motherboard and maybe some others, but for me the optimizations simply show lower latency in the DPC monitoring app and don't make a difference in real world performance.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> The other elephant in the room is the dynamic clock fetish Nvidia and AMD have now. [...]


Are you sure it's not the different driver versions? You can't use the older drivers as they don't support the new cards, so might have not seen the card with the same driver as on the GTX580.

I found this post about forcing it to run fixed speed: *http://www.overclock.net/t/1267918/guide-nvidia-inspector-gtx670-680-disable-boost-fixed-clock-speed-undervolting*


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illwill*
> 
> HPET off usually makes the mouse feel worse in fact.


Maybe you are just used to the feeling of hpet and turned off it feels worse for you.
I doubt this timer can work completely different on different motherboards.

Mouse with it on is very slow and delayed, same thing was on old AMD motherboard. Turning 180 degrees back and forth is much slower with it on. On desktop it feels almost like Im using wireless bluetooth mouse.


----------



## Tazzzz

Could you please help me to configure realtek ethernet controller for less lag? For now i have disabled all energy saving things. There are certain options:
1) ARPOffload -
2) EEE - Energy Efficient Ethernet -
3) NsOffload -
4) WakeOnMagPkt - Wake On Magic Packet -
5) WakeOnPtn - Wake On Pattern Match -
6) AutoDisableGigabit -
7) JumboFrame -
8) TransmitBuffers -
9) ReceiveBuffers -
10) S5WakeOnLan -
11) GreenEthernet -
12) IPChksumOffload v4 -
13) TCPChksumOffload v4 -
14) TCPChksumOffload v6 -
15) UDPChksumOffload v4 -
16) UDPChksumOffload v6 -
17) InterruptModeration -
18) Receive Side Scaling
19) Priority&VLAN -
20) LargeSendOffload v2v4 -
21) LargeSendOffload v2v6
22) NetworkAddress -
23) SpeedDuplex -
24) WolShutdownLinkSpeed -
25) FlowControl -


----------



## r0ach

Updated original post:

*BIOS*

22) *Wake on Lan* - Disable. Anything to do with Intel ME or Intel Vpro you don't want.

*Services*

1) *Human Interface Device Access* - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard and other random things, but it also does affect mice. Disabling this is one of the last pieces of the puzzle for me to get Win7 cursor response back to WinXP level. (Credits to Berserker1 for this one, I think)

2) *Windows Search* - Polls your hard drive a lot and can cause stutter. Many SSD users disable this anyway to stop it from taxing your cells.

*Software*

6) *Intel Rapid Storage* - This one is a little tricky. Once upon a time, only the default, Microsoft AHCI driver and the Intel Rapid Storage driver supported TRIM. The driver included in "Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility" didn't. Most people installed the Intel Rapid Storage driver because you needed to get rid of the driver the chipset software installation utility put in. The default Microsoft driver is probably the best option for latency and TRIM support. If you want to get it back after you've installed your chipset software, all you need to do is go to Control Panel > System > Device Manager > IDE ATA / ATAP Controllers, then uninstall that driver and choose "delete driver on uninstall", and it will revert back to the normal, Microsoft AHCI driver after a few restarts.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> The other elephant in the room is the dynamic clock fetish Nvidia and AMD have now


You could purchase a 925mhz 7970 before the Boost/Ghz edition came out. The cards can be flashed back and forth to Ghz edition as well for testing. I don't own a 7970 to test the difference, if there is one.


----------



## deepor

About that "Human Interface Devices Access", I just checked, it gets disabled automatically if the keyboard is plugged into PS/2 instead of USB on my Windows 8. The volume keys still work on PS/2 with the service off.

When I rebooted and plugged the keyboard into USB, the service got started automatically. Stopping the service makes the volume buttons not work anymore on USB.

Maybe change your description about the service from "buttons on the keyboard" to "buttons on a USB keyboard" to be a little more exact.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## DuckieHo

Do you have objective proof of any of this?

Why would software in memory cause mouse lag?

Why would Execute Disable Bit or Boot Priority increase latency?

In game, does Aero or Desktop make a difference?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Do you have objective proof of any of this?


With things like HPET, you really have to test it for yourself. I rarely see anyone that doesn't notice a big difference like the one guy that said it feels like using a wireless bluetooth mouse with it turned on. The main problem is that if you have a large, latency causing issue like HPET turned on or the wrong Nvidia drivers/settings installed, you probably won't notice changing many of the other settings.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Why would software in memory cause mouse lag?


You mean things like Java? When it's 24/7 monitoring process is running waiting to intercept calls for it's use, I guess it inserts itself in a somewhat elevated system priority so things pop up instantly instead of 10 seconds later after you've loaded a webpage. Windows isn't a real-time OS and Microsoft probably doesn't care enough about cursor response to hard code the OS to prevent 3rd party software from bogging down the UI. Many people use Windows for professional work such as file servers, so making the UI come above all might hurt performance there too. I've read they are actually trying to code Steam OS with things like this in mind.

You might be able to configure Java to not run it's monitoring process at all, or change it's system priority somehow, but Java is close enough to malware to me already that I've never felt a need to try.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Why would Execute Disable Bit or Boot Priority increase latency?


Boot priority doesn't. It's just most people aren't running full UEFI compliant video cards or operating systems (even 600 Nvidia series isn't fully UEFI GOP compliant) to be worth the possible problems of dealing with UEFI boot over legacy. If left to it's own devices, my Asus CD burner loads both a legacy & UEFI op rom at the same time. I don't like to have a bunch of random variables like this unaccounted for that I don't even need so I try to keep everything legacy until the day (if ever) that I use Windows 8 and a different video card. If you use Windows 8 and a 780 GTX, you could probably force everything UEFI and use quick boot.

As for execute disable bit, that's more a habit from overclocking. I've never even tested with it on before, so it's off to be on the safe side.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Why set to "Windows 7 Basic" when you can just set Disable Visual Themes/Disable Desktop Composition for each game? Disabling Aero makes for a horrible desktop experience with tearing etc. Better to just have it disabled 'on demand' while games are running, not 24/7.


Because using borderless windowed mode, which many games have nowadays, seems to use the same cursor movement as your normal desktop use. That and "Windows 7 Basic UI" is more responsive than Aero is. UI rendering became vastly more complex with Vista & Win 7. XP was straight up accelerated GDI, which is probably the best thing you can hope for from a mouse response point of view, as shown below:



Vista released without accelerated GDI for some reason. Win7 brought some GDI acceleration back, then supposedly everything is hardware accelerated in Win8. So now we have full acceleration in the latest OS, but a drastically longer and more buffered pipeline:



I'm not super fluent on how Aero works, but I believe it uses some kind of D3d overlay on top of GDI. All i know is that it's more laggy than the other UI methods


----------



## r0ach

update:

*Services*

3) *Windows Defender* - This is another pretty noticeable one. Go to the start menu, in the search box type "Windows Defender" and open it. Go to Tools/Options, then go to the last tab at the bottom and uncheck the box labeled "Use this Program". It turns off the service and sets the service to manual automatically. You don't have to do anything else.

4) *Offline Files* - I really didn't think this service would make any difference, but apparently Windows prioritizes it's function much higher than it actually should be. It actually is very noticeable turning it off. If you run a workstation, you don't need it, and most people running a home network probably don't need it either.


----------



## ChieFz

may be useful
*http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-7-service-pack-1-service-configurations/*


----------



## Xanatos

r0ach, why don't you seem to have a 120 or 144 Hz monitor?


----------



## Dunan

Subbed


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I've purchased a GTX 260 (forgot how beautiful these cards were with the backplate and all) to test out your laggy driver theories for myself. There's something up with the 'flat panel scaling' setting: 'Do not scale' won't stick. It jumps back to 'built in scaling' every time. Do you know what's happening? This is 186.82.


That's weird. I think Nvidia scaling options started to stick and not reset with driver uninstall/reinstalls after a certain revision, so there might be something in the registry messing it up from newer drivers.

Does it do it with the last WHQL driver before 186.82, which is 185.85?

The Nvidia driver input lag started to explode when the 190 series was released, so 185.85 should be decent too. I just have preference for 186.82 because it had the smoothest frame rate delivery and lack of stutter of probably any 280gtx driver ever released. Crysis 1 plays better with that driver on my 280gtx than my 570gtx plays it with modern drivers, both factory reference boards.

Also, did you get your 186.82 from Microsoft's site? It was a Microsoft released driver. I don't think Nvidia ever actually released it themselves:

Win7 x64:

http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/driver/drvs/2009/08/20291276_a264562952e6190367120219121f78e35815d057.cab


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Berserker1

There is also some strange thing with scaling with 295.73 drivers, in some games some resolutions seem to use gpu no scale, they dont get stretched to full screen like with monitor scaling, instead its just smaller image with black borders around them.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> r0ach, why don't you seem to have a 120 or 144 Hz monitor?


I've got a CRT, a 27" Samsung TN panel that runs 1080p @ 70hz, and a Korean IPS 2560x1440 with somewhere between 0-4ms input lag.

I never got around to buying a 120hz panel because I originally wanted the Samsung 120hz. It required displayport, and my GPU doesn't have it, so would of had to spend like $900 on a new GPU and monitor. Then the 27" 144hz Asus came out, I read about all the horrible backlight, low contrast, and bad colors stories so didn't really try to allocate any money towards it. The new BenQ that just came out a few days ago with built in lightboost does sound interesting though.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

random update:

*Misc. Section*

*Chrome/Chromium* - tends to be overly GPU accelerated. Even after turning off hardware acceleration in settings, my 570 GTX still goes to max 3d clocks while just browsing text pages on the internet. You need to disable hardware acceleration in the normal settings menu, then type "about:flags" in the browser and set the following option to disabled. The GPU will stay in lowest power state no matter what you're doing, even watching flash videos:



Useful for people who don't like an 80 degree house.


----------



## PointJpeg

Tried most of your BIOS optimizations on a i5 750 + Asus P7P55D and I still get 1000us.

I guess it's caused by the NVidia (Got a GTX570) latest drivers which I don't think I really can afford to roll back since I do play BF4 etc...

Also anyway to make Java run only when I want it. (aka off all the time and when something required java turn it on ?)

I also can't change BCLK since Lynnfield uses BCLK to OC, so I have it @190.


----------



## iknowright

Should i disable intel speedstep?

Isn't virtu mvp supposed to lower latency?

What about disabling drivers in device manager? things you don't use, like intergrated graphics, Does that lower anything? or is it useless?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PointJpeg*
> 
> Tried most of your BIOS optimizations on a i5 750 + Asus P7P55D and I still get 1000us.


1000 is way too high for a system at idle. Are you using integrated sound or something? It might be a bad driver. Most systems get something like 200 or less with everything in the BIOS turned on, or left at default. There are a few DPC tracking programs that you should be able to find out what causes it like this one:

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> Should i disable intel speedstep?


Yea
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> Isn't virtu mvp supposed to lower latency?


No. Anything that's buffering frames, doing post processing, or similar features is not going to lower latency.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> What about disabling drivers in device manager? things you don't use, like intergrated graphics


You're supposed to disable that in the BIOS, not device manager.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PointJpeg*
> 
> Tried most of your BIOS optimizations on a i5 750 + Asus P7P55D and I still get 1000us.
> 
> I guess it's caused by the NVidia (Got a GTX570) latest drivers which I don't think I really can afford to roll back since I do play BF4 etc...
> 
> Also anyway to make Java run only when I want it. (aka off all the time and when something required java turn it on ?)
> 
> I also can't change BCLK since Lynnfield uses BCLK to OC, so I have it @190.


If you talk about a program that shows dpc latency saying it's 1000us and it's Windows 8, you have to use a program that's prepared to work with Windows 8. If you use "LatMon", go "tools -> options" in the menu, select a different measuring option.

That said, you can't check much about the problem in this thread with LatMon. It can show perfect numbers but there can still be weird latency on the mouse. All those DPC latency numbers are in the microsecond range. But that's not what this thread is about. If you can notice something as a human, it's in the millisecond range, which is thousands of microseconds.


----------



## PointJpeg

Okay downloaded Latency Monitor instead I'm getting 30 or so but with some spikes to 300-500, those seem to be very rare though.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

added to main post


----------



## Berserker1

gonna try it
btw I read that with GPUView you can see the whole work of the rendering pipeline, it should be possible to test and clearly see pre rendered frames and graphical settings effect on latency


----------



## deepor

While looking up that Application Experience stuff with Google, some Microsoft site mentioned it's intended to be disabled through some Group Policy setting instead of the service, but that was in an article for Windows Server 2003 (which is related to Windows XP?).

Specifically, this is what I'm talking about regarding the Windows group policy editor:
Quote:


> The settings are located in:
> 
> Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Application Compatibility
> 
> Select Turn Off Application Compatibility Engine
> Select Enabled under the Settings tab
> Select Turn off Program Compatibility Assistant
> Select Enabled under the Settings tab


I found this same procedure for XP mentioned in this article about Windows Vista and later: http://www.blackviper.com/windows-services/application-experience/

If you click on those tabs "Windows 8", "Windows 7", etc., you'll see that description about how to find the group policy settings for the service for Windows 7 and Windows Vista. It's missing for Windows 8.

So maybe the group policy settings should be used to disable the service for Windows 7 instead of directly touching the service settings? For Windows 8, it might not matter.


----------



## Tazzzz

del


----------



## iknowright

R0ach are you finding any news about this?


----------



## Scorpion667

BTW Display Scaling is gone in Windows 8 if you are using dual-link DVI. Only GPU scaling is available. The option isn't even greyed out, it's just not there.
This guy posted on Tom's, OCN and ESEA and no one was able to help him. But he's right it's impossible to scale by display with dual link dvi cable in windows 8.

Sucks for us that play BF4 because Windows 8/8.1 provides MASSIVE fps gains for this game.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> R0ach are you finding any news about this?


About what in particular? I removed the application experience service part from the thread because I think it will affect different people's systems extremely different and should probably not be changed unless you want to experiment with it.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> BTW Display Scaling is gone in Windows 8 if you are using dual-link DVI. Only GPU scaling is available. The option isn't even greyed out, it's just not there.
> This guy posted on Tom's, OCN and ESEA and no one was able to help him. But he's right it's impossible to scale by display with dual link dvi cable in windows 8.
> 
> Sucks for us that play BF4 because Windows 8/8.1 provides MASSIVE fps gains for this game.


I just looked at that picture.



Looks like Nvidia is just completely clueless on how much input lag this causes. I've already contacted them several times over the course of several YEARS and they haven't fixed things like this, so don't hold your breath. I'm about to switch from 570 GTX to 280x or r9 290. You should probably consider ebaying your cards if this is an important issue to you, because I highly doubt they will fix it. I haven't used ATI cards in a LONG time, so hopefully I won't find any surprises there.


----------



## Berserker1

Application experience makes huge difference, no idea what problems it can cause so I turned it back on.
Too bad steam os with its "reductions in input latency at the operating system level" cant support directX, no one would use windows for gaming.


----------



## iknowright

I disabled it because i don't simply use it.









but what i meant was if you have found any new tweaks etc?


----------



## weirdek

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread, deactivating HPET even through device manager gave me instant results. Everything seemed much snappier. Then I proceeded to turn it off in bios, turn off 1394 and uninstalled java. I think HPET makes the most difference out of all of these things. Since I am on amd I didn't have to fiddle with the rest of the settings, but so far it seems pretty good.
Also I'm not sure if it's placebo but apps and games are loading a bit quicker. The input lag is, at least for me, pretty obvious so there's no denying that these settings reduced it. Maybe some people can't notice the difference but I can, the same goes for people who state that there's no difference between 60 and 72 or 120Hz refresh rates, but for me there's a massive difference.

Cheers for this info


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I just looked at that picture.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Nvidia is just completely clueless on how much input lag this causes. I've already contacted them several times over the course of several YEARS and they haven't fixed things like this, so don't hold your breath. I'm about to switch from 570 GTX to 280x or r9 290. You should probably consider ebaying your cards if this is an important issue to you, because I highly doubt they will fix it. I haven't used ATI cards in a LONG time, so hopefully I won't find any surprises there.


Looking forward to your impressions on 200 series.

Great guide btw. I noticed a pretty big difference when I disabled USB3.0 and set my CPU power controls to Extreme/full phase. I had NEVER thought that could alter mouse movement/perceived smoothness


----------



## Xanatos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Looks like Nvidia is just completely clueless on how much input lag this causes. I've already contacted them several times over the course of several YEARS and they haven't fixed things like this, so don't hold your breath. I'm about to switch from 570 GTX to 280x or r9 290. You should probably consider ebaying your cards if this is an important issue to you, because I highly doubt they will fix it. I haven't used ATI cards in a LONG time, so hopefully I won't find any surprises there.


perhaps you should take your claim to the next level by getting/renting a high speed camera to test the lag and showing some measurable proof.


----------



## banjogood

Please tell us what you think of the AMD card you get. I want to get the r9 290x too. I have a GTX 670 right now and I can tell it has input lag at 120hz. It's annoying.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> perhaps you should take your claim to the next level by getting/renting a high speed camera to test the lag and showing some measurable proof.


Assuming I wished to blow $300 - $10,000 on a camera I would never use for anything other than doing that test, the other problem is I'm not quite sure of the testing methodology required to get 100% accurate results.

I would assume that you would need to use a mouse recording software program and record the mouse moving across the screen, preferably in a straight line. Then you would need to rig some kind of button that causes the recorded mouse movement to play and the camera to start recording at the same time. The camera and computer would each obviously have different signal delays before they each started their assigned task, but you could treat the camera as a static variable, I guess.

To create the button to start the test, you would also need to solder wires running to the keyboard and camera PCB, and probably a tripod for the camera too.

Is what I just described correct? Or is there an easier way to do this, because I don't really see one.

You would also have to assume keyboard and mouse input lag are both affected equally by any variable you may test, which may or may not be the case. You might have to solder wires to the mouse left click button instead of the keyboard to create the button that starts the test and gets the mouse playback + camera going at same time.


----------



## AquaSurfer

Nah, it is much easier.

Just place the camera somewhere so that it covers mouse and monitor in its view. Start recording then move mouse with a finger but do it fast, it has to be short impulse that will give you clear starting point on the video.
It is best to do it in fps game with high sensitivity so that even slightest mouse movement will result in visible rotation that can be seen on low resolution video.
With for example 1000fps camera each frame after the mouse has been moved till you see first change on the display(character starts rotating) is going to be 1ms of delay.
Many video players will let you watch videos frame by frame with keyboard shortcut for easy frame=ms counting.
Do it few times and calculate average then take it as base lag.
Now you can change anything you want in your hardware/software and repeat procedure and then compare result with base lag.

For example you first measure your system with WMO and get Xms of lag then swap mouse for DA2013 and the result is X+Yms and you know relative latency but this is enough to decide which settings/devices are better.

I've just checked on amazon, casio ex-zr100/200/300/400 for under 200$


----------



## Tazzzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> Nah, it is much easier.
> 
> Just place the camera somewhere so that it covers mouse and monitor in its view. Start recording then move mouse with a finger but do it fast, it has to be short impulse that will give you clear starting point on the video.
> It is best to do it in fps game with high sensitivity so that even slightest mouse movement will result in visible rotation that can be seen on low resolution video.
> With for example 1000fps camera each frame after the mouse has been moved till you see first change on the display(character starts rotating) is going to be 1ms of delay.
> Many video players will let you watch videos frame by frame with keyboard shortcut for easy frame=ms counting.
> Do it few times and calculate average then take it as base lag.
> Now you can change anything you want in your hardware/software and repeat procedure and then compare result with base lag.
> 
> For example you first measure your system with WMO and get Xms of lag then swap mouse for DA2013 and the result is X+Yms and you know relative latency but this is enough to decide which settings/devices are better.
> 
> I've just checked on amazon, casio ex-zr100/200/300/400 for under 200$


Yea, i agree with this. "Just move a mouse and see how many frames after that the cursor starts moving"


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> Nah, it is much easier.
> 
> Start recording then move mouse with a finger but do it fast


This actually gets you legitimate results? Just jerking the mouse real fast from a stand still so you can estimate what frame it started on the video?

Assuming a hardware review site did this test, or a mouse/graphics card company set up a dedicated rig to test it, would the method I described give better results?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AquaSurfer*
> 
> I've just checked on amazon, casio ex-zr100/200/300/400 for under 200$


I'm still using a 570gtx on a 2560x1440 monitor so I got other things I pretty much have to buy first like a r9 280x. If I actually did test all these variables, and things like the Nvidia driver input lag situation, and got it published on a reputable tech site, it would probably destroy a nice chunk of the hardware industry after people found out. At least any hardware loosely associated with gaming would be screwed once people found how how laggy it is.

Anyone from AMD want to send me a camera to do this test? Anyone from Nvidia want to send me a blank check to not do this test?


----------



## Xanatos

some reference: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/6


----------



## AquaSurfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> This actually gets you legitimate results? (...)


Yes, but keep in mind that the more you repeat every measurement to get more data for averaging result the more statistically accurate it will be. You can also include standard deviation for any result you get, it will let us see something like 10ms*+-2ms* for example.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> (...) Assuming a hardware review site did this test, or a mouse/graphics card company set up a dedicated rig to test it, would the method I described give better results?


No, your method if i understand it correctly is wrong.


----------



## r0ach

Updated original post:

*Maximum pre-rendered frames*

For "maximum pre-rendered frames", there are a few factors to consider for this setting. While testing my 27" Samsung TN panel, I seemed to get similar results in vsync chop with it set to 0 or 1. When I tested my 27" Korean IPS panel with no hardware scaler, I get far less chop with it set to 0. The biggest downfall of the 0 setting is that GPU utilization does take a dive, even in non-graphically intensive games. I was getting right under 300 FPS in League of Legends with all settings on max at 2560x1440 on a 570gtx with the pre-render set to 1. After changing it to 0, I seem to max out around 240 FPS and it appears to have more frame rate dips with high amounts of action on the screen.

You basically have to test 0 and 1 yourself to find out what kind of GPU utilization is good enough for you and how each one affects chop for whatever display you have. Also, Nvidia is obviously full of crap when they claim there is no difference between a setting of 0 and 1.


----------



## Berserker1

R0ach you should test few games with GPUView program and figure out about prerendered frames(flip queue) and graphical settings latency. I tried it but got some error from log.cmd, didnt investigate further.
Also saw some interesting screenshots. Seems like 0 frames is the required prerendering as graphics cant be made in real time and 1-3+ are additional prerendered frames.


Payday 2 and Killing Floor(even in opengl) cant use 0 as it defaults to 3, very noticeable there.


----------



## r0ach

I'm gonna have to redo the original post a little. All the BIOS and Nvidia driver stuff is 100% legit, so basically 3/4th's the original post, but after just having done a fresh install of Win 7 yesterday, I've come to a few conclusions after experimenting with things.

I mentioned programs like Java in the original post that keep memory resident footprints and intercept calls for their use. Programs like this are highly invasive, they do not launch only when needed, they're in most cases just sitting there running 24/7 like an actual device driver and bring many of the same problems that a device driver can bring like latency due to the way they work.

I've never run with things like Java installed, partly because of the latency it adds (which several people have emailed me about noticing the same thing when you uninstall it), and partly because it's an enormous security vulnerability. Flash, on the other hand, is extremely hard to get away from.

After doing a fresh Windows install and experimenting some, I noticed I could get similar mouse latency by leaving every default Windows service active and uninstalling Flash, or, leaving Flash installed and disabling numerous Windows services. No matter what combinations of services I disabled while having Flash installed, I could not get as good cursor movement as just leaving every service on default and removing Flash.

The services part of the guide is really the equivalent of adjusting sensitivity without actually using mouse software to do it. Flash seems to be more of a negative influence on a system than I had estimated, but who would really be surprised about that from an Adobe product? I'll probably be running without flash now unless I can:

1) Find a web browser that's completely sandboxed, self contained, and portable that has Flash built into it. "Chrome portable" is the closest thing I could find so far, but I hear it's not really even a portable app, still writes to C: user folders, and probably still installs flash, just with no remove program option for it in task manager.

2) Figure out some way to do a portable install of flash that only launches when I tell it to for Youtube videos, etc, instead of just sitting there in memory 24/7 waiting to play advertisements immediately as a web page opens.


----------



## benjamen50

I don't know if I want to do this on a 4.7 GHz overclock...


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I don't know if I want to do this on a 4.7 GHz overclock...


I tried Crysis 1 at 2560x1440 with CPU at 3.3ghz then at 4.8ghz and got the exact same framerate. Didn't gain even 1/10th of an FPS. Doesn't really matter for the resolution I play since I'm GPU limited 99% of the time. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference at 1080p either. Then with Mantle coming, CPU is even less of a bottleneck....


----------



## Berserker1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benjamen50*
> 
> I don't know if I want to do this on a 4.7 GHz overclock...


Disabling cpu throttling/power saving will do no harm to adequately cooled CPU @ reasonable voltage. Energy saving comes at latency cost, which is not an option for gaming PC and is irrelevant on desktop. Power consumption at 4.7Ghz idle/low load is still low and programs/ opening chrome with many tabs open doesnt lag as much as on 1.6Ghz.

My 2500k @ 4.5Ghz runs with 0 problems for almost 2 years with constant "safe" 1.328-1.336 voltage.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I tried Crysis 1 at 2560x1440 with CPU at 3.3ghz then at 4.8ghz and got the exact same framerate. Didn't gain even 1/10th of an FPS. Doesn't really matter for the resolution I play since I'm GPU limited 99% of the time. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference at 1080p either. Then with Mantle coming, CPU is even less of a bottleneck....


Not everyone plays at gpu limited graphical settings especially in FPS, its not really a good idea as input lag from heavy graphical settings is noticeable even on highest end gpus, because game design nowadays doesnt take in account latency.


----------



## r0ach

I put a Bitcoin address in my sig if people want all latency variables tested with a high speed camera and actual objective data for it in milliseconds. I'll upload all the data to an Overclock.net post and a webpage for backup, and will try to get the results featured on an actual hardware review site so the industry will pick up on this story.

Here are some of the variables I plan to test:

- All BIOS latency variables from dynamic power saving, HPET, RAM settings, USB3 vs USB2, etc

- The latency added by having various software installed such as Flash, Java, and different AHCI drivers (MS vs Intel), etc

- The effects of latency from various Windows services such as Windows Defender, Human interface device access, etc

- Nvidia driver input lag and the effect each control panel setting has on it, also the differences in lag between various drivers. I may keep this as a continuously updated area for new driver releases if there is interest for it.

- The same variables tested for AMD video cards and continuously updated list if there's enough to get more than a camera

- The differences in latency between various mouse sensors and firmware such as the Avago 3090, A9500, Razer 3g, 3.5g, 4g sensors, etc

This will likely require days, if not weeks to test, results will be uploaded on a continual basis.


----------



## Berserker1

Few days ago after reading monitor reviews I thought about changing color preset of my old 2007 LCD, set it to movies and immediately felt a massive reduction of input lag, that even raw input feels better now.
Today I decided to test with HPET on and it doesnt feel that bad, but there is still noticeable change. Randomly run and gunning vs nightmare bots in QL I got 64% LG accuracy with no effort at all, even thought glide on my mouse pad got really bad from wear and cold temperature, my LG is highly glide dependent.
Now I can better understand why some people cant feel massive difference or think that with HPET mouse feels better.

EDIT: Just turned hpet off, its much better without it.
Nvidia scaling still adds a lot of input lag, but less noticeable. Different sensitivity using casuals will still think that its placebo and it has no input lag.
The more responsive and higher hz monitor you have the less it will annoy you, but its still bad.


----------



## deepor

About HPET, Windows 8 seems to ignore it when it's on. The same happens on Linux. There's an internal CPU register that counts clock ticks since the CPU was started, and that's what's used for current time. It can be read in an instant, unlike accessing that HPET device that's somewhere else on the board.

For Linux, a kernel programmer answered a question about that decision to ignore HPET, from what I understood saying that counter built into the CPU works fine nowadays. Using that CPU counter for timing originally broke when multi-core CPUs were introduced and when using power management to clock the CPU down or disable cores. That's fixed on current CPUs, the counter always runs at normal clock speed.

So, from what I understood, Windows 8 and Linux only ever really use that internal CPU counter. A separate clock device like HPET is at most used to check on that counter occasionally, see if there's some drift that has to be corrected.

Because of all of this, I suppose it's probably not bad to disable it if you like. It should only change something about Windows 7. It should force it to behave like Windows 8.


----------



## 404Error

I wouldn't mind seeing some real empirical evidence for this. I'm sure there's some truth to what you say, but currently it sounds like a lot of confirmation bias. It would definitely help garner support for your cause if you did manage to come by some.


----------



## B 0 n 3 z 55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *404Error*
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing some real empirical evidence for this. I'm sure there's some truth to what you say, but currently it sounds like a lot of confirmation bias. It would definitely help garner support for your cause if you did manage to come by some.


Terms like "empirical evidence" and "confirmation bias" embody the wholesale attendance, albeit morbid untethered curiosity

that simultaneously saturates one with fascination during forum perusal. Bravo, lads, brav-o!


----------



## zergrush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> This actually gets you legitimate results? Just jerking the mouse real fast from a stand still so you can estimate what frame it started on the video?
> 
> Assuming a hardware review site did this test, or a mouse/graphics card company set up a dedicated rig to test it, would the method I described give better results?
> I'm still using a 570gtx on a 2560x1440 monitor so I got other things I pretty much have to buy first like a r9 280x. If I actually did test all these variables, and things like the Nvidia driver input lag situation, and got it published on a reputable tech site, it would probably destroy a nice chunk of the hardware industry after people found out. At least any hardware loosely associated with gaming would be screwed once people found how how laggy it is.
> 
> Anyone from AMD want to send me a camera to do this test? Anyone from Nvidia want to send me a blank check to not do this test?


Be careful dude. They might just put out a hit on you. If their sniper is anything like their drivers though you should be safe


----------



## iknowright

It's good to see finally someone taking care of mouse response/input blah blah, i see this as a big problem and i am so happy that r0ach helps us with it. GJ r0ach!


----------



## iknowright

Does anyone know how to choose "display scaling" in nvidia settings on windows 8.1? i can only choose gpu scaling


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> Does anyone know how to choose "display scaling" in nvidia settings on windows 8.1? i can only choose gpu scaling


It seems it's just missing for some people and some monitors. I've seen it being mentioned in some other thread that some monitors don't have scaling built in or don't report it right or something (I can select display scaling on my Win 8.1 in the NVIDIA settings). I think one guy reported back that this option is selectable in Windows 7 with the same driver version for him, but not in Windows 8.1. If you happen to not care for 8.1, perhaps just go back?


----------



## iknowright

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It seems it's just missing for some people and some monitors. I've seen it being mentioned in some other thread that some monitors don't have scaling built in or don't report it right or something (I can select display scaling on my Win 8.1 in the NVIDIA settings). I think one guy reported back that this option is selectable in Windows 7 with the same driver version for him, but not in Windows 8.1. If you happen to not care for 8.1, perhaps just go back?


I could use display scaling on w8 i think.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> Does anyone know how to choose "display scaling" in nvidia settings on windows 8.1? i can only choose gpu scaling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems it's just missing for some people and some monitors. I've seen it being mentioned in some other thread that some monitors don't have scaling built in or don't report it right or something (I can select display scaling on my Win 8.1 in the NVIDIA settings). I think one guy reported back that this option is selectable in Windows 7 with the same driver version for him, but not in Windows 8.1. If you happen to not care for 8.1, perhaps just go back?
Click to expand...

That was me.

Yes on 331.65 driver I was able to select GPU or Display Scaling in Windows 7 64-bit however on the same driver in Windows 8.1 64-bit Display scaling is gone. The option is not there anymore. Only tested 331.82 driver in Win 8.1 and the display scaling is still not available.


----------



## iknowright

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> That was me.
> 
> Yes on 331.65 driver I was able to select GPU or Display Scaling in Windows 7 64-bit however on the same driver in Windows 8.1 64-bit Display scaling is gone. The option is not there anymore. Only tested 331.82 driver in Win 8.1 and the display scaling is still not available.


Wow that's sad, seems like Nvidia only cares about SLI and geforce experience this days lol.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> That was me.
> 
> Yes on 331.65 driver I was able to select GPU or Display Scaling in Windows 7 64-bit however on the same driver in Windows 8.1 64-bit Display scaling is gone. The option is not there anymore. Only tested 331.82 driver in Win 8.1 and the display scaling is still not available.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow that's sad, seems like Nvidia only cares about SLI and geforce experience this days lol.
Click to expand...

They only care about topping AMD in review benchmarks that's all.


----------



## Gero2013

what I didn't quite get from OP, what if I follow all the steps, will I get more FPS or will my mouse movement and keyboard input be faster executed?


----------



## iknowright

the second one.


----------



## iknowright

Lol look, it is very low but it randomly jumped up over 1000 Micro sec LOL. I have HPET on and using onboard sound card and LAN driver. Around 20-30 dpc







i think it's good.


----------



## wein07

I tried out the suggestions and this guide is legit and definately made a difference, especially on desktop.









Thanks for sharing


----------



## iknowright

roach how is it going with the test you were doing.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> roach how is it going with the test you were doing.


Don't have a high speed camera to do tests and 0 people wanted to throw in for one. Just got my first AMD video card since using the 9700 pro though.

I have a lot of things to work through before I can say anything concrete about AMD. They have A LOT of ridiculous services running in the background for their cards now, plus the most bloated install package I've ever seen. Think I had to install 4 different version of .net and vc++ runtimes just to install drivers. Then you have issues like not being able to change flipque from 3 to 0 without installing radeonpro, which installs yet another service, so I need to find the registry values to do it manually without yet another bloatware program.

Radeonpro also doesn't seem to work well and the simple act of only changing flipque with it also changes many other settings even when I don't change their corresponding sliders. So my first goal is to figure out how to reliably change flipque using only a .bat file to alter registry. One of the other things I noticed so far is that having EDID on or off in control panel changes mouse feeling a lot for my 27" Korean IPS. Not sure if that will be the same for all monitors, but it feels better turned on. I was going to order a 120hz PCB to put in my screen, but now I'm not sure what I should do because I don't know if I can run 120hz with EDID turned on. Might have to figure out a way to flash EDID data to the monitor to natively accept higher refresh rate.

So yea, there's just some of the things I'm working through so far.

If you're just some average guy and don't know how to deal with the vast number of variables like this, I can say that the AMD card with newest drivers will definitely be better than using a Kepler with newest Nvidia drivers regarding input lag. On the other hand, the fastest Nvidia drivers regarding input lag such as 267.59 and 295.73 are pretty competitive vs AMD. You're really only screwed if you have a Kepler and forced to use the super laggy, newer drivers.


----------



## ranseed

you should use ati tray tools just for changing the flip queue size. ive had better luck with that program. also i believe the lowest setting for flip queue size is 1, and that 0 defaults to the original value of 3


----------



## Zerrius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> you should use ati tray tools just for changing the flip queue size. ive had better luck with that program. also i believe the lowest setting for flip queue size is 1, and that 0 defaults to the original value of 3


ATT is so buggy, better use RadeonPro.


----------



## ranseed

for changing the flip queue size, it won't matter. and also radeon pro is useless trying to force refresh rates, whereas ATT actually works. (on a fw900) need a forced refresh rate for certain games


----------



## Scorpion667

r0ach maybe mdrejhon can lend you his 1000fps camera that he uses for blurbusters.

Dunno, try getting in touch with him. Or maybe he can do the tests for you if you tell him what to do. He's got the lowest input lag screens available to him as well so. Check out what he did in his input lag review of G-Sync, he modded a mouse button to trigger a 1MS LED that he can film next to the screen and measure the difference between LED activation and frame change with the 1000fps cam

http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

Pretty cool imo


----------



## iknowright

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> r0ach maybe mdrejhon can lend you his 1000fps camera that he uses for blurbusters.
> 
> Dunno, try getting in touch with him. Or maybe he can do the tests for you if you tell him what to do. He's got the lowest input lag screens available to him as well so. Check out what he did in his input lag review of G-Sync, he modded a mouse button to trigger a 1MS LED that he can film next to the screen and measure the difference between LED activation and frame change with the 1000fps cam
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/
> 
> Pretty cool imo


Nice idea


----------



## ranseed

hey r0ach I would like to hear your opinion on your ati card compare to nvidia input lag wise now that youve had it for some time


----------



## odin2free

Interesting...
Now time to sit down and really dive into prema bios mod for my w230st notebook and really get into the setting this baby up for insanity

Danke and following subbed all that jazz


----------



## iknowright

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> hey r0ach I would like to hear your opinion on your ati card compare to nvidia input lag wise now that youve had it for some time


Yep, i would also like to hear a update.


----------



## nlmiller0015

sadly i can only use gpu scaling it seems on win 8.1 it does display scaling differently


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> sadly i can only use gpu scaling it seems on win 8.1 it does display scaling differently


I have the options for display scaling on 8.1. That's using a GTX 560 TI and newest nvidia drivers.


----------



## nlmiller0015

for some reason I cant use display scaleing anymore though


----------



## iknowright

same here


----------



## nlmiller0015

yea I have window 7 on my 4 th hard drive I have display scaling on that one so it definitely not my monitor im think windows 8.1 is effecting scaling ethier that or its nvidia


----------



## LzbeL

Actually worsens performance "Executed Bit"? You have to disable it?


----------



## Lust

thanks for the guide, worked great. some of the steps i wasn't fully able to complete so if you could translate some of those terms into an asus motherboard that would be great.
regardless great guide tho


----------



## Scorpion667

Yo r0ach you should add this guide to the OP:

Enable 1000hz in windows 8, 8.1
http://www.blurbusters.com/systemwide-fix-win81-mouse-fluidity/

Windows 8 and 8.1 caps at 125hz for mouse, unless you apply this fix. Tested working 100%, official fix from Microsoft but with a twist to enable it across the whole OS instead of just particular apps/games.


----------



## r0ach

Update for new Intel Chipset Drivers:

***Important Update*** - *Intel Chipset Software* - The old software (pre-version 10) installed the laggy and useless Intel AHCI driver that was worse than the default Microsoft one. You needed to go into device manager under "IDE ATA / ATAPI Controllers" and click "uninstall and delete driver" to get rid of it to switch back to the normal Microsoft one. With the newer v10+ Intel drivers that just came out, it seems like they stopped including this Intel AHCI driver at all, but it appears they include some USB 3 (xHCI) drivers in the thing now. If you use the newer Intel driver, you probably want to watch your install log and remove anything USB 3 or MEI related if it installs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> hey r0ach I would like to hear your opinion on your ati card compare to nvidia input lag wise now that youve had it for some time


ATI GPU section coming soon


----------



## detto87

Scorpion: will I be able to use any mouse (like WMO) in Windows 8.1 and it will use 1000 hz polling rate?


----------



## Buttnose

Looking forward to the ATI update and any other news/info you can bring us r0ach. Wish I could get my latency down further but my asus mobo won't let me disable HPET and I can't get by without flash









Any idea if the new so-called wonder driver from nvidia has any latency improvements? I'm still running the 295.73 on my GTX460, but looking to upgrade in the near future and am a bit worried about the newer drivers.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buttnose*
> 
> Looking forward to the ATI update and any other news/info you can bring us r0ach. Wish I could get my latency down further but my asus mobo won't let me disable HPET and I can't get by without flash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea if the new so-called wonder driver from nvidia has any latency improvements? I'm still running the 295.73 on my GTX460, but looking to upgrade in the near future and am a bit worried about the newer drivers.


You can disable HPET use in the boot parameters for the Windows kernel. Windows 8 by default already does not use it at all on current PCs unless some program wants to do something with it. You can configure Windows 7 to behave the same if I'm not mistaken.

I tried finding information about how to do that just now, but I'm unsure. You'll have to search yourself if the things I'll mention won't work.

What I found was this blog post: http://blog.bfitz.us/?p=848

The guy mentions that QueryPerformanceCounter() should have a 14 MHz resolution when HPET is used and 3.3 MHz otherwise. It also says that TSC is bad and broken, which is not true, was fixed on current CPUs. TSC is the timer built into the CPU itself. It can be read in an instant as it's just executing a normal CPU instruction.

Here's what my Windows 8 does by itself on my PC where HPET is enabled:



It's firstly straight up ignoring HPET. That can be seen by that 3.3 MHz mentioned at the top. You can see that it uses that TSC inside the CPU through QueryPerformanceCounter() executing at 6 nanoseconds. If HPET is used, that would be super slow. It being super slow might be where the latency comes from when using HPET.

To check what's going on for you and your Windows installation, get the "PCClockTiming" tool on this page (it's close to the end of that page): http://www.satsignal.eu/software/net.htm

It's that tool in my screenshot.

Afterwards, try playing around with bcdedit to set different parameters for the Windows boot and see what changes in the output of that tool. I found this documentation:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542202%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Try this in an Admin command prompt window:

bcdedit /set useplatformclock no

To revert back to defaults, you'd do this here:

bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

You can check what you're doing with bcdedit if you simply run "bcdedit" and read its output. It should mention useplatformclock somewhere after you've set it.
Quote:


> Any idea if the new so-called wonder driver from nvidia has any latency improvements? I'm still running the 295.73 on my GTX460, but looking to upgrade in the near future and am a bit worried about the newer drivers.


I have a hunch that it'll be bad for latency. I bet all those latency problems are there because NVIDIA's programmers are very good at distributing the work they have to do to prepare data for the graphics card onto all CPU cores, while AMD's stuff runs on a single core or something, can't get use out of quad-core CPUs or six-core i7-4930k and stuff.

I bet the FPS improvements are involving improving that distribution of work over the cores and latency won't get any better.


----------



## Tazzzz

.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tazzzz*
> 
> I've tested it and it indeed gave me latency improvement compared to previous kepler driver (i was using 331.65)


Were you using settings as mentioned in the first post of this thread with this new driver? I mean things like "threaded optimization" set to "off".


----------



## Tazzzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Were you using settings as mentioned in the first post of this thread with this new driver? I mean things like "threaded optimization" set to "off".


Yes in games that i mostly play it doest give fps boost so i set it to off


----------



## r0ach

New thread update: *PCIE sound cards are garbage*

I used an Audigy 2 ZS PCI soundcard for years with no problems. I "upgraded" to the newest Soundblaster Z PCIE card a few weeks back. Immediately after starting to use the PCIE card, I noticed scrolling on webpages had much more choppiness to it, games were less fluid, more screen tearing, lower FPS in games, more input lag, flick shots felt off, etc. I just switched back to the years old Audigy 2 PCI card and everything is back to normal.

I tried using the PCIE card without Creative drivers installed (it still played sound fine without even installing drivers), and with Creative drivers, both were crap.

Just dragging a window around on desktop, there's an enormous difference in flicker between the two cards. The PCI one has zero flicker or chop while dragging the window, and the PCIE one is all stuttery. The thing causes negative issues with everything on the system from fluidity to mouse movement.


----------



## Tazzzz

.


----------



## erobuR

If you are not into it, MSI mode will change many things Roach, trust me!


----------



## deepor

Just tried the MSI mode stuff on one device, it worked, then I stupidly expanded the settings on nearly all devices at once and Windows didn't boot afterwards.









I had made a System Restore point before the experiments and had to use that to get it working again. Safe Mode was also not booting so System Restore was the only option.

*EDIT:* I found out it was the SATA controller of the board (Intel's Z77 chipset). Everything else can safely be switched to MSI for me even if it refuses to work (the USB 2.0 controller ignores it), but that SATA controller will hang at boot. It does this both while using Intel's driver and while using Microsoft's driver that comes with Win 8.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Just tried the MSI mode stuff on one device, it worked, then I stupidly expanded the settings on nearly all devices at once and Windows didn't boot afterwards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had made a System Restore point before the experiments and had to use that to get it working again. Safe Mode was also not booting so System Restore was the only option.
> 
> *EDIT:* I found out it was the SATA controller of the board (Intel's Z77 chipset). Everything else can safely be switched to MSI for me even if it refuses to work (the USB 2.0 controller ignores it), but that SATA controller will hang at boot. It does this both while using Intel's driver and while using Microsoft's driver that comes with Win 8.


Weird, as my SATA controller was already in MSI mode, and i have a Z68 chipset.. would be odd to take a step back in that regard


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Weird, as my SATA controller was already in MSI mode, and i have a Z68 chipset.. would be odd to take a step back in that regard


It's a Gigabyte board and it's probably its BIOS not working quite right from what I've seen of Gigabyte.







Since the last post, I actually already tried a different BIOS which has a newer version of the module for the Intel SATA controller but it still doesn't want to work.

*EDIT:* I got that SATA device working now after installing the latest RST driver from here: http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/30530-latest-overclocking-programs-system-info-benchmarking-stability-tools.html

I found out the Microsoft driver which can do SATA AHCI in Windows 8 does not support MSI/MSI-X. That's why it wasn't working. I'm still pretty sure I had an older Intel RST driver running at some point (saw "driver provider: Intel" instead of Microsoft in the device properties) and that one also didn't work, but that might just be me not remembering right.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It's a Gigabyte board and it's probably its BIOS not working quite right from what I've seen of Gigabyte.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the last post, I actually already tried a different BIOS which has a newer version of the module for the Intel SATA controller but it still doesn't want to work.


Oh, well thats too bad, mine is an ASRock, never had a Gigabyte board for some reason


----------



## Bucake

i thought i was well on my way to 'killing' dpc latency, but the latency checker tells me it jumps around between 4 and ~60 and it has apparantly reached as high as 384 at some point :/

the latency _seems_ to increase as soon as i start doing something (like using my browser).

and what looks 'worrying' to me is that the latency is not steady at all.
if i'm idling it will hang around 4-20, averagely, but every 10-20 seconds there is this sudden jump to 50-60.
these jumps get significantly higher (~300) if i'm actually doing stuff.

does this mean my setup is a mess, or is this behaviour 'typical'?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i thought i was well on my way to 'killing' dpc latency, but the latency checker tells me it jumps around between 4 and ~60 and it has apparantly reached as high as 384 at some point :/
> 
> the latency _seems_ to increase as soon as i start doing something (like using my browser).
> 
> and what looks 'worrying' to me is that the latency is not steady at all.
> if i'm idling it will hang around 4-20, averagely, but every 10-20 seconds there is this sudden jump to 50-60.
> these jumps get significantly higher (~300) if i'm actually doing stuff.
> 
> does this mean my setup is a mess, or is this behaviour 'typical'?


Latency Checker is kinda useless, and the duration roach ran it for proves nothing for the stability of his system regarding DPC, in that screenshot its been running for ... 5-10 seconds max.

Try using LatencyMon and let it run for a minimum of 20 minutes.

It will alsto tell you what process causes the DPC spikes if you get any, so you can actually track down faulty drivers or hardware instead of just guessing


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Latency Checker is kinda useless, and the duration roach ran it for proves nothing for the stability of his system regarding DPC, in that screenshot its been running for ... 5-10 seconds max.
> 
> Try using LatencyMon and let it run for a minimum of 20 minutes.
> 
> It will alsto tell you what process causes the DPC spikes if you get any, so you can actually track down faulty drivers or hardware instead of just guessing


thanks for your (quick) reply :j much appreciated.

should i run this while 'doing my thing' (games, spotify, browser...), or while idling?
(it already appears that my nvidia drivers and directx are the biggest latency creators for me. - monitoring while typing this post)

edit: 15 minutes
20 minutes

damnit!


----------



## deepor

You asked what "hard page faults" are (but deleted the question while I was thinking how to explain that best):

The virtual memory of programs is organized in 4KB sized "pages". Those "hard page faults" are things being hit in memory that's not there and has to be read from disk. The CPU automatically stops what it's doing. The program that's running gets interrupted and the OS takes over to set up that page of memory. It gives control back to the program when finished with that work. That's the time that's measured, how long the program was interrupted and how long the OS needed to finish setting up that page.

Those page faults do not need to be about the page file or memory running out or anything like that. It can be normal file accesses. Programs can ask the OS to put the contents of a file into their memory. The OS will not read the file immediately, will only set up the page tables for the CPU and then only read from disk when the CPU runs into those page faults.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> should i run this while 'doing my thing' (games, spotify, browser...), or while idling?
> (it already appears that my nvidia drivers and directx are the biggest latency creators for me. - monitoring while typing this post)
> 
> edit: 15 minutes
> 20 minutes
> 
> damnit!


I played a game with simple graphics that always runs at max fps for about ten minutes and got this:




About that IRQ and MSI stuff, device manager looks like this for me:


----------



## Bucake

thanks alot for the explanation :j i deleted the question because i didn't feel like taking the risk of a 'let me google that for you' ;p

many thanks for the comparison as well. it's obvious that there's something not going too smoothly on my setup. i'm doing a second run right now (after updating my bios) but these results are significantly worse









i guess there are too many possible causes to ask for help, at this point.
could the bios update have been a bad move (i went through the settings after updating)? :/


----------



## deepor

Did you try to work through all your devices with regedit and enable that "MSISupported" stuff for them? I think my numbers were a lot less stable before those changes, but I can't really remember. I only tried a game that's pretty light on resources so my screenshots might be totally fake compared to playing something like BF4.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Did you try to work through all your devices with regedit and enable that "MSISupported" stuff for them? I think my numbers were a lot less stable before those changes, but I can't really remember. I only tried a game that's pretty light on resources so my screenshots might be totally fake compared to playing something like BF4.


i didn't. i can't recall anything on 'msi' from this guide; have i missed it?
my results were all without any games running, by the way. i was only browsing on chrome while spotify (supported by ezblocker) was running in the background :/


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i didn't. i can't recall anything on 'msi' from this guide; have i missed it?


It was mentioned in this post one page back:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tazzzz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> New thread update: *PCIE sound cards are garbage*
> 
> 
> 
> Try setting ur soundcard to MSI mode. Mine shares IRQ with videocard and some other devices. I tried doing so on my titanium hd but there is no sound afterwards. It definitly should work with MS driver, my card just cant use it. http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044
Click to expand...

Follow the link there and you'll get to some forum post with some sort of guide on what to do. That Device Manager screenshot I showed a bunch of posts ago is how it looks like for me after I did those changes. Before that, things were all using normal IRQs and several devices were sharing the same IRQ. Now it's only the USB 2.0 driver with a normal IRQ and everything else is using that MSI stuff. No IRQs are shared between several devices anymore.

To check how the IRQs are used on your PC, open Device Manager and in the menu select "View -> Resources by type", then open the "Interrupt request (IRQ)" part of the view and scroll to the end to get to the PCI area.


----------



## Bucake

thanks alot, man :j i really appreciate the help.

i'll take a look at the link after i've revitalised myself with some good food.

until then: 20minutes of team fortress 2. ouch.
and my device manager right now. it looks like some do share the same IRQ, so hopefully i'll see some improvement after fixing it up :j


----------



## deepor

If you install the Intel RST driver ("rapid storage technology"), the Microsoft SATA thingy will get replaced and the Intel one will switch over by itself. Trying to switch the SATA stuff over manually was the only crash I got while experimenting with this. Everything else was just doing it or at least not crashing Windows at boot.

Don't forget to enable System Restore and make a restore point or you will be stranded with no way back if Windows doesn't boot anymore.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> If you install the Intel RST driver ("rapid storage technology"), the Microsoft SATA thingy will get replaced and the Intel one will switch over by itself. Trying to switch the SATA stuff over manually was the only crash I got while experimenting with this. Everything else was just doing it or at least not crashing Windows at boot.
> 
> Don't forget to enable System Restore and make a restore point or you will be stranded with no way back if Windows doesn't boot anymore.


in his guide, r0ach suggests not to install the RST driver. do you disagree?
and am i understanding that you crashed after trying to change the IRQ settings of the SATA drivers (in registry)?

and thanks for the tip. i made a restore point for my primary disk (excluded my two storage-disks) :j
how would i restore if windows doesnt't even boot, though? all hopes on safe mode? ;p


----------



## deepor

Safe Mode didn't work for me because the SATA driver was apparently also crashing for that. You can get to System Restore if you hit F8 before Windows boot and then select the repair option in the boot menu.

I installed the RST driver because I wanted to mess with this, no other reason. I was using the MS driver originally. I don't know what's better.


----------



## Bucake

merci, merci :j

i'm trying to do the fancy IRQ thingy now, but i either took a wrong turn somewhere or there is something missing(?)
any ideas?

edit: or does this simply mean that this device is not supported by MSI?
you can see that the top one does have "MessageSignaledInterruptProperties", but most others don't.

i wonder if my setup is too old.. :E


----------



## deepor

Yeah, some devices are like that, but that's usually the ones that also won't ever want to do anything with firing events that show up in LatencyMon.

About your screenshots of LatencyMon: mine doesn't look that different if I let it run for a good while it seems. Something that had high latency will eventually show up on that main screen of the program. On the driver screen, it recorded the NVIDIA driver doing something for 1700 µs once for example.


----------



## Tazzzz

.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tazzzz*
> 
> You dont have to do this to every device u have, only if u are having issues or many devices share the same irq line like in my rig im having videocard sound card and 4 other devices on the same irq line. And ofcourse that ******ed creative driver doesnt support msi mode.
> I tried switching videocard to msi but i didnt like the way it felt afterwards it was kinda different and not so good. Id say if its default then there is some reasoning.
> PS: dont buy creative, worst company ever.


I switched my Creative SB Z to MSI without issue..

But yeah, i wouldent buy another creative anything either ever again


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> thanks for your (quick) reply :j much appreciated.
> 
> should i run this while 'doing my thing' (games, spotify, browser...), or while idling?
> (it already appears that my nvidia drivers and directx are the biggest latency creators for me. - monitoring while typing this post)
> 
> edit: 15 minutes
> 20 minutes
> 
> damnit!


sorry for the late reply

Yeah, some nvidia drivers jump to 400+ µs for me too, the current beta driver 337.50 does not, and is usually well below 100µs

The network driver will go up by default when you use your network, the higher usage, the higher it will go, that is pretty normal


----------



## MonarchX

I followed all the instructions, but nVidia drivers create 350-600us spikes. ASUS Xonar DGX drivers also create 120-250us spikes, which is normal, even with UNi Xonar drivers that reduce latency. I would suggest that you DO install Intel MEI drivers, the latest ones from Station-Drivers, but make sure to only use the .INF through the Device Manager, and not use Intel Setup. You also need to look up the latest firmware for MEI as that probably matters even more than drivers. Intel MEI is actually quite important and besides controlling something remotely (its technical description), it also controls motherboard bus, overclocking features, and whole bunch of other device functions.

There is evidence that nVidia videocards and drivers benefit from modded BIOS/firmware ROMs that disable Boost, which changes clocks and voltages all the time, which may cause DPC fluctuations/spikes.

I am not sure whether it is possible to have a fully multi-tasking PC with many functions, including gaming, if you were concentrate purely on DPC latency. For example, how does Java, even with disabled process/service, increase DPC latency? Flash? I do not need those, but I do need my good old MS Office 2013 SP1 + all updates. Is that also increasing my DPC latency?

I think the following items matter most
Updating firmware if possible and then disabling in BIOS:
-ASMedia USB 3.0
-ASMedia SATA
-All on-board devices you are not using
-Intel USB 3.0
-Legacy USB Support
-All un-used USB ports
-C-States
-Wake-Up states
-Intel SpeedStep
-HPET

Driver-wise, uninstall or better yet, re-install Windows 8.1 Pro Update 1 and never install:
-Intel drivers like RST and Chipset Drivers with exception for NIC (if you are using it), MEI, and possibly iGPU (if you are using it). Use the driver .INF files through Device Manager ONLY. Do not use any installers!
-Any ASMedia SATA or USB drivers
-Any keyboard or mouse driver (especially Logitech!)
-All other drivers that are not necessary, for which Windows has native drivers


----------



## deepor

Everything I looked at always worked for me without installing the MEI driver (I mean with regards to overclocking). Are you sure you really need it? I've seen the same sentence you underlined posted somewhere else, but have never seen anyone actually saying they have proof for that and did not see anything that suggests it's true myself.

The biggest spikes of the NVIDIA drivers for me are usually about 200 µs. I let LatencyMon run for about 2 hours today and it did not spike higher than that. This is with a GTX 560 Ti, which has nothing of that boost stuff you mentioned, so I guess that could be a hint that what you say about patched vBIOS might be something you should try out?

Other than those spikes, the time used on average seems to be super low for the NVIDIA driver. If you divide "total execution time" by the "DPC count" in LatencyMon, you get something like 6 µs for example, so much lower than those spikes.


----------



## error-id10t

Interesting reading. Though I agree with some of the BIOS settings etc, "disable what you don't use" mentality,

I do question both the not installing IME and Chipset. Note that you already have IME firmware, so you're not avoiding anything. Then the question becomes how are you communicating with it using some MS driver or no driver at all? I always make sure I have the latest driver matching the IME firmware - of course I go in and disable the unnecessary services it creates.

Regarding Chipset, not installing this left me with 1 unknown device. I could update this alone using the Chipset package and now it was using my latest Intel information - everything else was using base MS or were not listed at all. Once I installed Chipset, other devices showed up that were not even there earlier + they're using Intel information instead of base MS.

Regarding the Legacy vs. MSI, I don't know about this either. In my case LAN, RAID, USB3, IME are already using MSI. The rest are not, mainly my Creative Titanium HD (did not work after trying this, no sound) and my 780 TI Classy (won't be trying this for that). Windows is smart enough to warn about IRQ conflicts and it obviously uses MSI when possible so "forcing" this just doesn't sound right IMO.


----------



## Axaion

If it used MSI when possible we wouldent have to try and force it, when it works on most "devices"

windows is quite a mess actually, loaded with bloat and everything from the start that you have to get rid of, had 7 devices on the same IRQ, and they all switched to MSI just fine.


----------



## TK421

Is this driver recommended to be uninstalled and replaced with default microsoft driver?

Reference under "Software 6) Intel Rapid Storage"


----------



## superV

i think you forgot about modded windows.there are lots of modded versions of windows or you can mod ur own.i have windows 7 64 bit with size of only 800 mb and after install it takes only 2.3 gb of space from ssd.very lite version without lots of stuff that dont need for gaming,like printer drivers,windows games etc.very lite and i can see difference in one fps i run and move faster.
omg works !! i had on idle 50 with peaks to 255μs.
now on idle 4 μs stable to 6 μs and some peaks to 11 or 12 μs.
disabled lot of stuff from bios and im at 4.7 ghz on 4770k.


----------



## r0ach

I finally got around to trying the MSI interrupt deal. On my ATI 290 cards, Windows sets them MSI automatically. On my 570 GTX, it uses regular IRQs. Mouse feels a bit different with it enabled for the GPU and I'm not sure if I like normal or MSI more yet.


----------



## Tazzzz

Did u try that wonder driver? Is it comparable with 295.73 ?


----------



## the1freeMan

I'm having trouble with PCIE devices without ME driver.

I've been running happily without it, but trying to install a PCIE wi-fi adapter I was forced to install it to make the controller work. (shows as unknown device otherwise).

MoBo is an Asrock P67 pro3 SE (not my choice), does this happen with other boards too?

Does it affect regular PCI as well?


----------



## deepor

Interesting... never seen or heard of something like this. I really thought it's 100% useless at home, just ends up in the chipset because the chip is internally very similar to the professional one where you can configure stuff remotely.

What happens if you now disable the ME device in the right-click menu in the Device Manager? Does your WiFi card stop working?

If you don't know where it is in the Device Manager, it's in the "System Devices" section of the list and is called "Intel(R) Management Engine Interface".


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> What happens if you now disable the ME device in the right-click menu in the Device Manager? Does your WiFi card stop working?".


The card has trouble with win7 x64. I'm not using it at the moment. With ME at least it gets detected, but cant connect. If I disable ME with the card installed I go back to "unknown device" IIRC.

Since RMA is ridiculously long I might give it another try, but doubt it. Anyway my mobo just needs ME for the PCIE controller, it shows as "unknown device" no matter if something is plugged in or not. Installing ME gets rid of it.

EDIT: I got the card to work!

Disabled MEI in the Device manager, card still works .

EDIT 2: Uninstalled the MEI, PCIE controller goes back to "unknown device" but card still works


----------



## r0ach

AMD update

A lot of things I do with AMD settings are precautionary in nature. I haven't had enough time to test every single thing yet, so I just remove any variable that might cause problems:

1) Disable hotkeys, disable system tray



2) Enable EDID - this option is very noticeable and seems to be more twitchy and responsive for mouse movement with it turned on. It makes me wonder how Nvidia handles EDID since they don't give you the option.



3) I disable all the video post processing junk under this tab as a precautionary measure.



4) I use the same values that I found optimal for Nvidia under ATI. You can use whatever you want for Anisotropic filtering, it shouldn't matter since textures are going to be filtered regardless, but Anti-Aliasing did add increased latency for me under Nvidia



5) Install RadeonPro and set Flipque to 0, then save, and uninstall the program completely. AMD apparently uses drugs while coding their control panel and leaves out this setting for no particular reason even with how important it is.



6) Install MSI afterburner, go under settings, disable ULPS, then uninstall the program completely

7) Last setting I'm still working on, "AMD External Events" service. I have no idea what the purpose of this is. I'm still experimenting with it.


----------



## fateswarm

Horrible thread points to be honest. It has some truths, but it's also full of guesswork, internet popular culture and abstract bias against some brands. I see the author keeps bumping it, that explains it.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Horrible thread points to be honest. It has some truths, but it's also full of guesswork, internet popular culture and abstract bias against some brands. I see the author keeps bumping it, that explains it.


Worst post ever. I've owned all the various brands before, there's no "bias", it's from first hand experience.

Any "guesswork" is mostly erring on the side of caution and picking the choices that will be least likely to be problematic.


----------



## Tazzzz

.


----------



## benbenkr

This is a good thread, I fully support it.
Many of the options has truth to it and plenty of them do indeed decrease input lag and DPC latency as a whole.

+ One thing I'd like to add is that for those who likes using Intel EIST/C-states, you can still use it with a little bit of hassle. All you need to do is set Windows to High Performance under Power Options in the CP, use this when you are gaming or watching movies in full-screen. Otherwise, when just casually using the PC, you can set Windows back to balanced mode and edit the minimal CPU power usage to your liking (default is 5%).

I do however find some of the options set to disabled is pushing it towards the extreme a little too much. I mean, stuff like disabling Java and Flash? Really... Computers are computers for a reason. Disable Hyper Threading? But... people bought an i7 for a reason, disabling it would just mean that people should just spend less on an i5 or even an i3.

Understand one thing, many successful pro gamers don't even know a rat about any of these options nor do they dab with any BIOS/OS setting, yet they're winning the 6 figures. Point is, having zero latency doesn't actually make you win everything. Don't try and lose your sleep over it.

Latency wasn't exactly zero either back on Windows XP btw...

*EDIT*

One other thing, Z87 boards has inherently high DPC latency to begin with. This is a hardware issue and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Z97 is doing quite a bit better on the other hand.


----------



## petejones7

I love this thread, its really helped me a lot (been bookmarked for like 6 months now, I tell everyone about it). I have a couple of questions though. In your new post, it says to install the new chipset drivers and leave MEI and usb3 ones out, but how do I know whether its installing them or whether they're already installed? And, how do I check if i have those old AHCI drivers installed (i'm running in IDE mode)?

Also, do you update all the other drivers that can be updated? I did a clean install recently and Driver booster is telling me I can update 24 drivers (already installed windows updates). Should I update them all or just specific ones?


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> This is a good thread, I fully support it.
> Many of the options has truth to it and plenty of them do indeed decrease input lag and DPC latency as a whole.
> 
> + One thing I'd like to add is that for those who likes using Intel EIST/C-states, you can still use it with a little bit of hassle. All you need to do is set Windows to High Performance under Power Options in the CP, use this when you are gaming or watching movies in full-screen. Otherwise, when just casually using the PC, you can set Windows back to balanced mode and edit the minimal CPU power usage to your liking (default is 5%).
> 
> I do however find some of the options set to disabled is pushing it towards the extreme a little too much. I mean, stuff like disabling Java and Flash? Really... Computers are computers for a reason. Disable Hyper Threading? But... people bought an i7 for a reason, disabling it would just mean that people should just spend less on an i5 or even an i3.
> 
> Understand one thing, many successful pro gamers don't even know a rat about any of these options nor do they dab with any BIOS/OS setting, yet they're winning the 6 figures. Point is, having zero latency doesn't actually make you win everything. Don't try and lose your sleep over it.
> 
> Latency wasn't exactly zero either back on Windows XP btw...
> 
> *EDIT*
> 
> One other thing, Z87 boards has inherently high DPC latency to begin with. This is a hardware issue and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Z97 is doing quite a bit better on the other hand.


1- Probably chipset dependent, on my system EIST/C-STATES keeps changing processor load and clocks in game (monitor with Hwinfo and OSD). Even with High performance, which isn't anywhere close to it's name. Disable core-parking for starters, but still it won't be enough.

2- Doing fine without java. I have no use for it. There are other ways around functions of some programs using it.

3- Again the i5/i7 stereotype.. i7 have bigger caches. From what I read HT did add latency, but on older architectures. Didn't notice much (if any) difference on Sandy Bridge. Still this is a "method", you don't have to do everything to the letter. If I mainly play multi-threaded games the performance benefit might outweigh the latency, if any.

4- We don't give a rat's ass about what "mr. *sponsor* Blah_blaH", who is payed to shut up and play, does or does not.

5- 0 latency doesn't exist, computers are not real time.


----------



## r0ach

In regards to the Nvidia "miracle driver", I haven't tested it since I'm on an r9 290 right now.

This might sound strange to some people seeing as how Z87 + Z97 are out, but I just ordered an Asus P8Z77-V motherboard. It's the only motherboard I can find on the market currently that has all the following features I desire:

1) Ability to disable HPET
2) Ability to disable USB 3
3) Ability to disable spread spectrum
4) Has a PCI slot due to my dislike of PCIE sound cards

Probablems with Gigabyte

For Z97 boards, Gigabyte removed the HPET option, I think they removed it for z87 as well, so that excludes them. They never had the option to disable spread spectrum either. Their UEFI implentation is also now probably worst in the business.

Problems with MSI

MSI z87 and z97 boards allow you to disable HPET, but don't have the option to disable USB3.

Problems with ASrock

You disable HPET but the option actually does nothing and it's still turned on.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> In regards to the Nvidia "miracle driver", I haven't tested it since I'm on an r9 290 right now.
> 
> This might sound strange to some people seeing as how Z87 + Z97 are out, but I just ordered an Asus P8Z77-V motherboard. It's the only motherboard I can find on the market currently that has all the following features I desire:
> 
> 1) Ability to disable HPET
> 2) Ability to disable USB 3
> 3) Ability to disable spread spectrum
> 4) Has a PCI slot due to my dislike of PCIE sound cards
> 
> Probablems with Gigabyte
> 
> For Z97 boards, Gigabyte removed the HPET option, I think they removed it for z87 as well, so that excludes them. They never had the option to disable spread spectrum either. Their UEFI implentation is also now probably worst in the business.
> 
> Problems with MSI
> 
> MSI z87 and z97 boards allow you to disable HPET, but don't have the option to disable USB3.
> 
> Problems with ASrock
> 
> You disable HPET but the option actually does nothing and it's still turned on.


I've tested the latest WHQL driver (337.88) which has the "miracle" DirectX fixes and what not. DPC latency remains the same, which means it still sucks in comparison to the good ol' 295.73. As for input lag, it remains high but it is something that I've adjusted to.

As for Gigabyte, it's funny that they removed the HPET option but so far their Z97 boards has some of the lowest DPC latency in comparison to Z77.... hmm.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Problems with ASrock
> 
> You disable HPET but the option actually does nothing and it's still turned on.


HPET Disables just finef or me on my ASRock board.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> I've tested the latest WHQL driver (337.88) which has the "miracle" DirectX fixes and what not. DPC latency remains the same, which means it still sucks in comparison to the good ol' 295.73. As for input lag, it remains high but it is something that I've adjusted to.
> 
> As for Gigabyte, it's funny that they removed the HPET option but so far their Z97 boards has some of the lowest DPC latency in comparison to Z77.... hmm.


Here's how v337.88 runs for me, about 15 minutes of playing a game:




I also made another screenshot after about 40 minutes:



In that 40 min screenshot, that's 12930 ms of time spent inside the nvlddmkm.sys interrupt processing routine. Divided by the 3598078 DPC count, it's on average 0.00359 ms of time spent per DPC. I switched the NVIDIA device into MSI mode in the registry, so that's why the "ISR count" column is zero for it.

It's a Gigabyte Z77 board and 3570k. This is with C1E and EIST disabled, but C3/C6 still enabled. I've never seen it running for that long without pretty high latency spikes if C1E and EIST are enabled, which I guess makes sense as the DPC will then sometimes run at 1600 MHz, so the highest recorded time will end up getting multiplied by three or so, meaning it'll record spikes like 0.2 instead of 0.07.


----------



## r0ach

Well this is disappointing. I blew some money testing out three new motherboards recently and not a single one has been close to as good as my old Gigabyte Z77 UD5H with F14 BIOS.

1) Asus z77 P8Z77-V Ivy Bridge - using latest BIOS, mouse movement feels buffered or interpolated to where if you try and flick shot, it feels like you're getting some artificial brake engaged

2) MSI z87 G55 Haswell - Can't disable USB 3 in BIOS which is probably why the mouse movement doesn't feel quite right.

3) ASrock z87 Extreme4 Haswell - This one has the worst feeling mouse movement of them all. It was truly in a league of it's own. Also, trying to disable HPET in BIOS does nothing and the setting stays on.

As for the Gigabyte Z77 UD5H, F14 BIOS gives good mouse movement, but if you upgrade to F15 or F16, you get the same kind of buffered mouse feeling like I talked about the ASUS having. So for right now, this Gigabyte board is the only thing I can really find that feels somewhat decent. The only board I can think of that had similar or better mouse movement was all the way back in the socket 939 days.


----------



## r0ach

Side note: I'm going to recommend people to install SP1 + ALL Windows updates before installing Intel Chipset driver now. Microsoft released an optional October USB update that overwrites some USB files in case SP1 didn't update properly, then they released a new mandatory (or automatically checkboxed) USB update in January that does similar things. You want the Intel Chipset driver installed last to prevent Microsoft from overwriting things in it.


----------



## Axaion

Not being able to disable HPET on the ASRock sounds like a bad board tbh, as ive no issue disabling it with mine, nor does my friend with the same board as me

Tried updating the bios on it before you threw magical gigabyte bananas at it?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Not being able to disable HPET on the ASRock sounds like a bad board tbh, as ive no issue disabling it with mine, nor does my friend with the same board as me
> 
> Tried updating the bios on it before you threw magical gigabyte bananas at it?


It disables in BIOS but is still there under windows device manager, which it wouldn't be if it was actually off.


----------



## paskanmyivat

Any ideas why my mouse feels delayed ingame sometimes? I have also been getting random stutters after changing from HD 7970 to GTX 770 (usually have to reinstall gpu drivers to get rid of the stutter)

Im playing CS:GO semi-professionally on 144hz BenQ XL2411t, Zowie EC1 eVo CL @ 1000hz. Ingame fps never goes below 250.

This is what LatencyMon shows after 25mins of idle (i was watching 1 stream from twitch.tv) - http://puu.sh/9ox1s/2f8691acb4.png
This one is 2-3weeks ago - http://puu.sh/8Pk6D

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 rev 1.0 with latest BIOS (F7)
Windows 7 64bit
i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz
MSI GTX 770 (currently using 335.23 drivers) - NVIDIA SETTINGS ( http://puu.sh/9oxFM/67075b5899.png - http://puu.sh/9oxHr/5a3e97cfd7.png)
G.Skill Ripjaws X 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 1.5V
ASUS XONAR DG

I have changed every bios setting & nvidia setting i could from your guide

any help?


----------



## deepor

What about the other tabs of LatencyMon, for example the Drivers tab?


----------



## paskanmyivat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> What about the other tabs of LatencyMon, for example the Drivers tab?


Drivers - http://puu.sh/9oyzI/54d1e6e394.png
Stats page - http://pastebin.com/PYDAraGY


----------



## deepor

Perhaps it's that sound card you seem to have? It might be its drivers. If it's a USB sound card, it might also involve the USB port and driver where it's connected.

I don't know if trying a different USB 3.0 Intel driver version might help, as that "usbport.sys" should be USB 2.0 stuff.

You said you tried everything in r0ach's guide, but perhaps still double check to see if you've disabled HPET in the BIOS as I think that can cause issues like this with some sound card drivers.


----------



## paskanmyivat

Xonar DG is PCI soundcard + My mobo doesnt have HPET









Well, i guess its worth to try to disable my external soundcard.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It disables in BIOS but is still there under windows device manager, which it wouldn't be if it was actually off.[/quote
> 
> Yeah, it disabled fine for me in bios and windows.
> 
> As i said that must either be a faulty board or that specific line or boards must be faulty in this regard
> 
> Too bad you didnt take time to update the bios


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Xonar DG is PCI soundcard + My mobo doesnt have HPET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, i guess its worth to try to disable my external soundcard.


Could try putting as much as you can into MSI mode

And.. at risk of repeating myself. did you see if there is an updated bios? - it 'could' fix the issue


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Xonar DG is PCI soundcard + My mobo doesnt have HPET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, i guess its worth to try to disable my external soundcard.


Just so you know why I mentioned the sound card: it's that "cmudaxp.sys" driver in your screenshots. It's taking a very long time to process things. If you Google that file name, it's a driver from C-Media, which are the guys building the chip used on the Xonar for example.

There's also other things having a very high processing time in your screenshots, but that's perhaps not their fault if something else freezes up the machine for a millisecond or more.

You should take out the sound card to see if it fixes your issues. When it's out and you use your board's audio, things will go through the Intel chipset and you have to look for a driver "HDAudBus.sys" built by Microsoft themselves in LatencyMon. Comparing the numbers, you can prove if it's your sound card or if it's something else.

If you find out that it's your sound card, you can then go and Google for how to fix its driver issues or perhaps email ASUS for help or whatever.


----------



## paskanmyivat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Just so you know why I mentioned the sound card: it's that "cmudaxp.sys" driver in your screenshots. It's taking a very long time to process things. If you Google that file name, it's a driver from C-Media, which are the guys building the chip used on the Xonar for example.
> 
> There's also other things having a very high processing time in your screenshots, but that's perhaps not their fault if something else freezes up the machine for a millisecond or more.
> 
> You should take out the sound card to see if it fixes your issues. When it's out and you use your board's audio, things will go through the Intel chipset and you have to look for a driver "HDAudBus.sys" built by Microsoft themselves in LatencyMon. Comparing the numbers, you can prove if it's your sound card or if it's something else.
> 
> If you find out that it's your sound card, you can then go and Google for how to fix its driver issues or perhaps email ASUS for help or whatever.


Thanks for your help btw,

I think it was alot better when i disabled my external sound card, but i still think something else is wrong as when i tried to stream (720p, 30fps, using OBS) it just starts to stutter and whatnot. I have seen people streaming with worse rig than mine perfectly fine. I tried to install Xonar Unified drivers and run 10min LatencyMon while idling (winamp & steam on background).
Main page - http://puu.sh/9pXjL/fc8b390241.png
Drivers page - http://puu.sh/9pXkc/a8461c7084.png

If anyone has Xonar DG as a soundcard, could you please run LatencyMon for ~10mins and take screenshot from drivers page?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> i think you forgot about modded windows.there are lots of modded versions of windows or you can mod ur own.i have windows 7 64 bit with size of only 800 mb and after install it takes only 2.3 gb of space from ssd.very lite version without lots of stuff that dont need for gaming,like printer drivers,windows games etc.very lite and i can see difference in one fps i run and move faster.
> omg works !! i had on idle 50 with peaks to 255μs.
> now on idle 4 μs stable to 6 μs and some peaks to 11 or 12 μs.
> disabled lot of stuff from bios and im at 4.7 ghz on 4770k.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Thanks for your help btw,
> 
> I think it was alot better when i disabled my external sound card, but i still think something else is wrong as when i tried to stream (720p, 30fps, using OBS) it just starts to stutter and whatnot. I have seen people streaming with worse rig than mine perfectly fine. I tried to install Xonar Unified drivers and run 10min LatencyMon while idling (winamp & steam on background).
> Main page - http://puu.sh/9pXjL/fc8b390241.png
> Drivers page - http://puu.sh/9pXkc/a8461c7084.png
> 
> If anyone has Xonar DG as a soundcard, could you please run LatencyMon for ~10mins and take screenshot from drivers page?


I'll try on my Xonar STX tonight and report back

Try Xonar unified drivers to see if there's an improvement in latency.


----------



## Scorpion667

please delete, didn't mean to double post!


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> i think you forgot about modded windows.there are lots of modded versions of windows or you can mod ur own.i have windows 7 64 bit with size of only 800 mb and after install it takes only 2.3 gb of space from ssd.very lite version without lots of stuff that dont need for gaming,like printer drivers,windows games etc.very lite and i can see difference in one fps i run and move faster.
> omg works !! i had on idle 50 with peaks to 255μs.
> now on idle 4 μs stable to 6 μs and some peaks to 11 or 12 μs.
> disabled lot of stuff from bios and im at 4.7 ghz on 4770k.


Just out of curiousity can you share the config you used for RT7 Lite, or Wintoolkit ?

Kinda thinking of making a new custom iso, maybe theres a bit more i can remove safely :]


----------



## paskanmyivat

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Any ideas why my mouse feels delayed ingame sometimes? I have also been getting random stutters after changing from HD 7970 to GTX 770 (usually have to reinstall gpu drivers to get rid of the stutter)
> 
> Im playing CS:GO semi-professionally on 144hz BenQ XL2411t, Zowie EC1 eVo CL @ 1000hz. Ingame fps never goes below 250.
> 
> This is what LatencyMon shows after 25mins of idle (i was watching 1 stream from twitch.tv) - http://puu.sh/9ox1s/2f8691acb4.png
> This one is 2-3weeks ago - http://puu.sh/8Pk6D
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 rev 1.0 with latest BIOS (F7)
> Windows 7 64bit
> i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz
> MSI GTX 770 (currently using 335.23 drivers) - NVIDIA SETTINGS ( http://puu.sh/9oxFM/67075b5899.png - http://puu.sh/9oxHr/5a3e97cfd7.png)
> G.Skill Ripjaws X 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 1.5V
> ASUS XONAR DG
> 
> I have changed every bios setting & nvidia setting i could from your guide
> 
> any help?






I just tried another GPU (HD 7970)

I did a 2min test while streaming CSGO (720p 60fps)

Results:

GTX 770, 720p 60fps stream & csgo running -> http://puu.sh/9rpae/917b049b39.png
HD 7970, 720p 60fps stream & csgo running ->
puu.sh/9s64x/e63824e373.png (i just left latencymon to run abit longer, i did close csgo and stream after 2mins)








?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> 
> I just tried another GPU (HD 7970)
> 
> I did a 2min test while streaming CSGO (720p 60fps)
> 
> Results:
> 
> GTX 770, 720p 60fps stream & csgo running -> http://puu.sh/9rpae/917b049b39.png
> HD 7970, 720p 60fps stream & csgo running ->
> puu.sh/9s64x/e63824e373.png (i just left latencymon to run abit longer, i did close csgo and stream after 2mins)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


try putting the 770 into MSI mode


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> In regards to the Nvidia "miracle driver", I haven't tested it since I'm on an r9 290 right now.
> 
> This might sound strange to some people seeing as how Z87 + Z97 are out, but I just ordered an Asus P8Z77-V motherboard. It's the only motherboard I can find on the market currently that has all the following features I desire:
> 
> 1) Ability to disable HPET
> 2) Ability to disable USB 3
> 3) Ability to disable spread spectrum
> 4) Has a PCI slot due to my dislike of PCIE sound cards
> 
> Probablems with Gigabyte
> 
> For Z97 boards, Gigabyte removed the HPET option, I think they removed it for z87 as well, so that excludes them. They never had the option to disable spread spectrum either. Their UEFI implentation is also now probably worst in the business.
> 
> Problems with MSI
> 
> MSI z87 and z97 boards allow you to disable HPET, but don't have the option to disable USB3.
> 
> Problems with ASrock
> 
> You disable HPET but the option actually does nothing and it's still turned on.


I was going to upgrade to an ASRock Z97M OC Formula. Wonder if it works the same way.

According to your findings, the Asus boards are the best, right?


----------



## paskanmyivat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> try putting the 770 into MSI mode


will try that next, i have no problems with HD 7970 or my friends GTX 780.

I tried to stream 720p 60fps with GTX 770 and it started to stutter like crazy, i tried to make a vod of it but it doesnt look as "stuttery" as on my screen.

VOD= http://www.twitch.tv/snoooplion420/b/538364901
DPC Latency Checker = http://puu.sh/9sWA1/0be4e1ac1d.png
LatencyMon = http://puu.sh/9sTJd/3512cffe6f.png
Latencymon = http://puu.sh/9sTzl/7fedae8a4c.png

but thats how it is been for last 3 months since i got this card. funny thing is that my game is smoother with hd 7970 & 720p 60fps stream than with GTX 770 and no stream ;__;


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> According to your findings, the Asus boards are the best, right?


Out of the Gigabyte z77, Asus z77, MSI z87, & Asrock z87 that I've owned, the Gigabyte z77 UD5H was the clear winner and I'll be using it till the wheels fall off. I would not buy a newer Gigabyte board though, because they removed HPET option from BIOS.

Unless Gigabyte puts the option back to disable HPET, I'm not sure if there are any good choices for z97. Asus would probably be the best gamble for z97 under current conditions.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Out of the Gigabyte z77, Asus z77, MSI z87, & Asrock z87 that I've owned, the Gigabyte z77 UD5H was the clear winner and I'll be using it till the wheels fall off. I would not buy a newer Gigabyte board though, because they removed HPET option from BIOS.
> 
> Unless Gigabyte puts the option back to disable HPET, I'm not sure if there are any good choices for z97. Asus would probably be the best gamble for z97 under current conditions.


Wrong quote?


----------



## xD4rkFire

Would a program like Razer Game Booster help in decreasing input lag? I imagine it would seeing how it ends unnecessary processes and services.


----------



## Conditioned

According to anandtech the asrock z97 something board has 39 microseconds dpc, ie the lowest of the bunch. They do dpc tests of all their motherboards now. Btw, 39 microseconds means you can probably get it down further.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> According to anandtech the asrock z97 something board has 39 microseconds dpc, ie the lowest of the bunch. They do dpc tests of all their motherboards now. Btw, 39 microseconds means you can probably get it down further.


ASRocks Extreme4 M had some of the lowest DPC of all Z68 boards too..
Im fairly sure roach got a faulty board, or hit the wrong setting in BIOS so far - unless theres some massive source post that says you cannot disable hpet on ASRock lol


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> ASRocks Extreme4 M had some of the lowest DPC of all Z68 boards too..
> Im fairly sure roach got a faulty board, or hit the wrong setting in BIOS so far - unless theres some massive source post that says you cannot disable hpet on ASRock lol


He mentioned he tried an ASRock Z87, and all Z87 seem to have issues with DPC latency, so there might be that.

No idea about HPET really... There's a boot option you can change through bcdedit about what clock device Windows will use. Is it important that HPET is enabled if Windows later doesn't use it?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> He mentioned he tried an ASRock Z87, and all Z87 seem to have issues with DPC latency, so there might be that.
> 
> No idea about HPET really... There's a boot option you can change through bcdedit about what clock device Windows will use. Is it important that HPET is enabled if Windows later doesn't use it?


Yeah, but no one will buy a Z87 board if theyre getting new stuff regardless, maybe he should have gone for Z77 or Z97 then seems to bet a chipset fault and not board fault then really.

About the hpet, just dont touch the bcdedit option, tried it a few times, no difference really - just disable hpet in bios and youre good to go


----------



## deepor

I meant for the people that can't disable HPET in their BIOS (or where they notice the BIOS setting is a lie and does not really disable it).


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I meant for the people that can't disable HPET in their BIOS (or where they notice the BIOS setting is a lie and does not really disable it).


no idea, ive never had the issue, and as such could never test it


----------



## Conditioned

So heres a few more thoughts on this:

Hpet isnt really used in modern os´s. In win8 it tries to go for tsc first and seconly hpet if its enabled. So you should have hpet enabled in bios and disabled in os for best results. You really cant know before hand (unless someone else tested it with your mobo ofc) if hpet on or off should be used in your setup. You need to test it. A bunch of tested this again in guru3d forums with different results.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044 might interest you as well. Mkb the author of NtSettimerresolution (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=376458 it basiclaly does what Timerresolution does ie increases windows timerresolution thereby possibly decreasing latency) gives you an option to test out to set your hardware devices in line based interrupt. Again ymmw and not all hw devices support this but they should. I can get my nvidia 680 into line based mode but not my pcie asus stx essence card for example.


----------



## Conditioned

Edit: This is for the guy with xonar dpc issues.

http://maxedtech.com/ try that driver. It has a low latency option during install.


----------



## Berserker1

upgraded from 295.73 to 337.88, feels very responsive


----------



## benbenkr

The problem I have about Anandtech's testing on DPC latency is that they record a board's latency *about 5 mins in, on idle*. That's not the way to record DPC latency.

One needs to put on a movie/music or play a game for at least 20 mins to record the average DPC latency measured (and NOT the maximum).


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> The problem I have about Anandtech's testing on DPC latency is that they record a board's latency *about 5 mins in, on idle*. That's not the way to record DPC latency.
> 
> One needs to put on a movie/music or play a game for at least 20 mins to record the average DPC latency measured (and NOT the maximum).


5 min is like.. several times more than roach did on the OP page though









At least anandtech tests DPC.. more than you can say about .. wait is there even ANY other site out there that does test DPC?


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> 5 min is like.. several times more than roach did on the OP page though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least anandtech tests DPC.. more than you can say about .. wait is there even ANY other site out there that does test DPC?


Eteknix do - http://www.eteknix.com/asrock-z97-extreme6-lga-1150-motherboard-review/12/

But again, the problem is that they record absolute maximum. The average is the one which is important, a single spike does not mean anything because a 1uq ms spike is inaudible.

Granted, you could say that if a board doesn't go higher than 30ms for example then that means its average is always lower than its maximum, which I'd say fair point.


----------



## fateswarm

When you benchmark Deferred Procedure Calls you benchmark Deferred Procedure Calls. You do not benchmark real responsiveness. The fixation with DPC checker is bogus.

If you want to really help, you have to research what responsiveness is. Following a web popular culture about DPC checker does not prove it.

Especially when most "optimizations" people do are not verified as actual optimizations, *even theoretically*.


----------



## benbenkr

^No you don't.

Same as to why people shouldn't benchmark audio either, it's damn near meaningless. 2 different DACs that scored the exact same mark on RMAA can turn out to sound different when actually listening to the damn thing.

DPC latency checking is just a guide to whether a board is subceptible to audio cutouts/skips or not. It has very little (if any) to do with mouse latency.


----------



## r0ach

Well, couple new things I've noticed. Every AMD GPU driver post mantle is pretty crappy. I would recommend only using AMD 13.12 driver until far in the future when the Mantle dust settles.

If I let my display go to sleep, the GPU will eventually BSOD after waking back up on 14.4 drivers. I erroneously blamed this on the ASUS z77 BIOS, but it turned out to happen on other motherboards as well. I feel like 13.12 may feel more responsive also since it seems to be before they added the mantle bloat, but it's hard to tell because AMD drivers don't go in and out clean like Nvidia ones. Right now I'm using 13.12 on a clean install and it feels very good input lag-wise.

I've also done a lot more testing with PCI vs PCIE sound cards and I'm 100% certain that PCIE ones have a negative affect on the system that PCI ones don't have.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> upgraded from 295.73 to 337.88, feels very responsive


I had done some preliminary testing with post nvidia "miracle driver" and I think they might have made a lot of progress in input lag, but I haven't done enough in-depth testing since I'm using AMD cards now. I noticed that the drivers were definitely faster than they were before in terms of lag, but I wasn't sure if they were as good as the old days yet such as back in the 280gtx era.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I can get my nvidia 680 into line based mode but not my pcie asus stx essence card for example.


My AMD r9 290 uses line mode by default, while my Nvidia 570 gtx doesn't.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> If I let my display go to sleep, the GPU will eventually BSOD after waking back up on 14.4 drivers. I erroneously blamed this on the ASUS z77 BIOS, but it turned out to happen on other motherboards as well..


Sounds like some kind of hardware failure somewhere, pretty sure this would be plastered on every. single. forum. ever. if the 14.4 drivers BSoD after waking up.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Sounds like some kind of hardware failure somewhere, pretty sure this would be plastered on every. single. forum. ever. if the 14.4 drivers BSoD after waking up.


It is, it's called "the black screen bug". Has happened to just about anyone with a 290.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It is, it's called "the black screen bug". Has happened to just about anyone with a 290.


I dont own the 290, so wouldent know, but apparently it does not happen enough, like the 560 Ti bug a while back, as that actually saw press exposure and was posted all over the place


----------



## xD4rkFire

Hey r0ach, I tried installing the 13.12 AMD driver but I'm not sure if I have the right version installed. Does this look about right?


----------



## davcc22

what next are you going to say ? use p2/p for key bared and mouse yeah go hide in your lunchbox you lovly soal


----------



## r0ach

Latest mouse news:

Windows Update used to push an optional update back in 2013 for the purpose of force updating your USB drivers in case SP1 failed to do so. I tested this optional update before in the past, and after the update went in, the mouse felt way different in Windows, so I uninstalled the update. Sometime in 2014, they added on to this update and re-released it as a new mandatory update, instead of optional, that installs the drivers.

Microsoft has screwed up documentation for what each update does now for Win 7, but I've narrowed it down to one of the following five:

kb2862330
kb2862335
kb2864202
kb2868038
kb2884256

You'll have to test it for yourself, but I've never been a fan of this update.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *davcc22*
> 
> what next are you going to say ? use p2/p for key bared and mouse yeah go hide in your lunchbox you lovly soal


Technically, ps2 port is designed from the ground up specifically for keyboards because they don't need constant polling. I would probably use ps2 for keyboard but my current motherboard (z77 UD5H) doesn't have a ps2 port. It would be really nice if mice could get their own port instead of sharing USB with a billion other garbage devices.


----------



## davcc22

Didnt asrock try something like that on some fatality mobo?


----------



## fateswarm

I bet most of those claiming noticing latency issues on USB would never prove it on a blind test.

Hell they may never prove it on wireless with a 1000hz polling rate.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I bet most of those claiming noticing latency issues on USB would never prove it on a blind test.
> 
> Hell they may never prove it on wireless with a 1000hz polling rate.


While latency does play a factor, it's more about the mouse feeling off in general rather than latency. With things like HPET for instance, the mouse doesn't necessarily feel laggier with it on, the cursor just feels fundamentally completely different in how it moves. If anything, the mouse feels faster with HPET on.


----------



## Berserker1

nevermind


----------



## catacavaco

after going through a lot of tweaking, i've reached a point where i started to doubt that DPC latency checker was measuring incorrect values in windows 8.1 (i experimented it on two different pcs and no matter what a did, it always return something around 1000 us)
Quote:


> Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and introduces a constant latency of one millisecond, which is not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces incorrect results because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8, which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and will make it available on this site as soon as it is finished.


So for you guys who were desperate to reduce your DPC latency (just like me) , they recommend using LatencyMon instead of DPC Latency Checker. Where latencymon can measure the "Interrupt to user" latency and not only the Kernel Timer, which supposedly is being measured incorrectly.

ps.: using latencymon i get Min 10us, Max 62us latency (after doing all them BIOS tweaks as r0ach pointed out)


----------



## r0ach

I need people to suggest me some options for an experiment I'm going to try because I'm not that big into "audiophile" stuff. As most people know, both Creative and ASUS drivers suck, and most motherboards are now ditching PCI sound card slots, and I don't like PCIE slots for sound card use.

Due to these factors, I'm going to try and run a PC without any on-board sound. I'm not going the USB DAC route because I'm 99% sure it will have a negative effect on mouse response since just plugging in a PC gamepad controller does (easily solved by just unplugging it when not in use).

What I plan to do is, run video from one DVI port of the GPU to the monitor, then use one of the other HDMI or DVI ports to run sound from the GPU to some kind of external device, thus bypassing the need for any on-board sound. I'm unsure of what, if any negative effects I might run into, possibly the GPU might not downclock or something like that. My main problem is figuring out exactly what type of external device I should run the sound to.

There are plenty of expensive, external DACs you can buy, but I'm unsure of if I will even use this setup at all, so I want to buy something fairly cheap to test out.


----------



## deepor

The cheapest I could find was an adapter thingy that takes HDMI as input and then produces a VGA signal output and also audio output to a 3.5mm audio jack. This is 10 € (including shipping) where I am.

*EDIT:* I found a very similar product on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Audio-Female-Adapter-Converter/dp/B00FHHQW4E/


----------



## benbenkr

The more passthroughs you have, the more latency there is in the audio. That's worse than actually using a USB DAC... which lol, seriously... makes zero difference when plugged in.

If you're so worried, get an external DAC that has optical input and connect the motherboard's optical out to the external DAC. End of story.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> The more passthroughs you have, the more latency there is in the audio. That's worse than actually using a USB DAC... which lol, seriously... makes zero difference when plugged in.


USB DACs are notorious for having line quality issues like popping, ticking, etc. The USB interface just doesn't seem to be a good solution for sound. Passing sound through the HDMI port seems like a much better option, which is why I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone try what I'm talking about. I think you misread my post as well. I'm talking about sending video to my monitor via one DVI port, then using a SEPARATE HDMI/DVI port on the GPU to send sound out. The video would not be recieving any pass through. I've been told this is possible to do, although I'm unsure of what, if any negatives it will have.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> If you're so worried, get an external DAC that has optical input and connect the motherboard's optical out to the external DAC. End of story.


I don't know a ton about audio. What exactly is running the optical out port on the motherboard? Is it required to enable the motherboard's on-board sound for it to work? If so, that's definitely of no use to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The cheapest I could find was an adapter thingy that takes HDMI as input and then produces a VGA signal output and also audio output to a 3.5mm audio jack. This is 10 € (including shipping) where I am.
> 
> *EDIT:* I found a very similar product on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Audio-Female-Adapter-Converter/dp/B00FHHQW4E/


I don't own any audio devices that can attach to a VGA port, or headphones, which I assume goes to the 3.5mm jack. I was looking for more of a full solution, something that I can directly plug speakers into.

The following $27 unit has a Left/Right RCA connector on it.

http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Extractor-Decoder-Converter-Digital/dp/B00DMZOUVK/

Could I plug two 7w Logitech speakers into those? Or is the power provided by HDMI going to be problematic. That decoder unit also says it only extracts the audio from the HDMI signal and doesn't do anything with video, so it seems like it might be a good option.

If I can't plug anything into that besides headphones, then I would need to get some kind of head unit that just accepts HDMI straight off the GPU I guess?


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> USB DACs are notorious for having line quality issues like popping, ticking, etc. The USB interface just doesn't seem to be a good solution for sound. Passing sound through the HDMI port seems like a much better option, which is why I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone try what I'm talking about. I think you misread my post as well. I'm talking about sending video to my monitor via one DVI port, then using a SEPARATE HDMI/DVI port on the GPU to send sound out. The video would not be recieving any pass through. I've been told this is possible to do, although I'm unsure of what, if any negatives it will have.
> I don't know a ton about audio. What exactly is running the optical out port on the motherboard? Is it required to enable the motherboard's on-board sound for it to work? If so, that's definitely of no use to me.
> I don't own any audio devices that can attach to a VGA port, or headphones, which I assume goes to the 3.5mm jack. I was looking for more of a full solution, something that I can directly plug speakers into.


I can 100% guarantee you that good quality external USB DACs has NO issues like popping, ticking, crackling, or distortion. The reason being that audiophile DACs has their USB input properly grounded and the most important thing: power is supplied through an external power adapter.

Cheaply made portable USB DACs that receive BOTH power and data from a USB port does not have proper power delivery in the first place, so whenever your PC jumps up and down in voltage, the line jitters. That's the reason for the popping, ticking, distortion, and so on.
Recently, some new motherboards has their USB ports fed directly from the 5v rail of the PSU. This only fix half the issue, the problem with many PSUs is that their 5v rail isn't as clean as it should be in the first place. So even if an external USB DAC receives constant power, the ripple from the PSU still causes power fluctuations and hence once again, audio defects.

Let's take the popular Schiit Modi Optical DAC for example. It only has an optical input and thus you need to connect your motherboard's optical out (assuming you have one, which you do on the UD5H) to the Modi, power it up via it's power brick. Set the default audio from Windows to optical out and that's it, everything will be piped through the optical cable. That way, even for the most sensitive of people, there's no way the mobo will be offering any latency to USB ports.

You can send video to your monitor via DVI, then HDMI to your audio device. But your device needs to have a HDMI input, of which then needs to be converted into analog and out to your speakers. I don't know how much you are planning to spend, but budget options usually add an abnormal amount of latency and cause music, games or movies to be out of sync, ontop of the poor audio quality.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I don't think you and Roach even have the same type of 'latency' in mind. The concern seems to be system latency induced by sound card drivers, which he wants to avoid by not having to use any audio controller (including the motherboard's) but the GPU's integrated one.
> 
> Spending money on an expensive DAC to supply "7w Logitech speakers" would be folly.


I know what latency he is afraid of.

I'm just saying by going the GPU route, he's going to create latency on the audio itself with out-of-sync issues. Granted it's an easy fix with Reclock when watching movies, but you can't reclock a game now can you?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

You suggested to use the optical out port instead. Doesn't this require having on-board sound enabled to use? Which would defeat the entire purpose of what I'm talking about?

My goal was to get audio out of the computer without using on-board sound or using a PCIE sound card. The only way possible to do this that I can think of, is sending sound out of the GPU's HDMI port to an external device, while simultaneously using a separate DVI port on the GPU to send video out to a monitor to avoid having any pass through.


----------



## deepor

The onboard device is still enabled. It's something built into the Intel PCH that will manage this. It does need an IRQ and does all the normal stuff from the point of view of the CPU and OS. The only change is what the audio chip does internally. It won't put the data into the DAC, will instead send it to that digital output.

On that note... did you play around with that MSI ("Message Signaled Interrupts") stuff that was mentioned a few pages back? I noticed on Windows most stuff is using IRQs by default on my machine, but on Linux the situation is completely reversed and nearly everything is instead using MSI. The only things left on IRQ are the timer (the one the OS needs for multi-tasking), the PS/2 keyboard, and the USB 2.0 controller. So there's obviously no technical issue with using MSI instead of IRQ for most devices. I have no idea why Windows drivers very often don't use it by default.

If the onboard sound is using an IRQ for you, perhaps try to see how it feels after switching it over to MSI manually?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The onboard device is still enabled. It's something built into the Intel PCH that will manage this.


So you're saying optical out works with on-board sound disabled in the BIOS for sure?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> On that note... did you play around with that MSI ("Message Signaled Interrupts") stuff that was mentioned a few pages back?


Yea, I tested it on a 570 GTX & R9 290. The AMD card has MSI enabled by default, while it's off by default on the 570 GTX. What I noticed on the 570 GTX is, with MSI turned off, the simple act of doing anything in the BIOS and hitting save usually gives you a little bit different mouse feeling, while there seems to be more consistency in how the mouse feels after doing BIOS changes with MSI turned on. I assume the IRQ allocation and priority of all these system components being shuffled around would be logical to cause this, and there's probably less chance of conflicts with MSI turned on.

On the other hand, from my limited testing so far, I think the cursor did feel slightly more floaty or disconnected with MSI turned on for the 570 GTX. MSI has more variables than simply MSISupported=1, and I'm unsure of what effect the other variables have, and whether the GPU drivers need to be written a certain way to properly support MSI, so I really can't pass judgement on this variable. It seems like there might be a reason Nvidia doesn't have it turned on by default for this card, but I have no idea if they have it turned on for newer cards.

The only device currently on my system with MSI turned on by default is the Intel ethernet. It uses an additional parameter of "MessageNumberLimit=1" for MSI, so I'm kind of uncomfortable forcing MSI on for a GPU without knowing what other parameters need to be set up for it.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> So you're saying optical out works with on-board sound disabled in the BIOS for sure?


Nope, the device still has to stay enabled.

I wanted to say that it also will be exactly the same device from the point of view of the CPU. The CPU will still need to do exactly the same amount of work to fill the sound buffer and process interrupts and stuff like that. For what you are interested in, there's absolutely no difference between using a 3.5mm analog jack and the digital optical output (at least how I understood it).


----------



## benbenkr

When you pass data through optical out from the mobo, all digital data will be processed by the external DAC. You _CANNOT_ have 2 DACs in an audio chain, there must only be one DAC, this is why all the optical out is doing is just passing through the audio bits to the external DAC for it to convert into actual analog waves.

The driver for the on-board sound obviously still needs to be enabled, otherwise you can't select the default device to be your SPDIF/optical out. The driver doesn't add latency as long as it doesn't do anything (which it isn't, because again; you are passing your audio to an external DAC).

I've tried the GPU route before and I come from experience saying it isn't a proper solution.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Yea, I tested it on a 570 GTX & R9 290.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The only device currently on my system with MSI turned on by default is the Intel ethernet. It uses an additional parameter of "MessageNumberLimit=1" for MSI, so I'm kind of uncomfortable forcing MSI on for a GPU without knowing what other parameters need to be set up for it.


Btw. when I mentioned MSI, I meant it for this current audio problem, not for the graphics card! You could enable it for your onboard audio device and then see if you like what happens.

You could also try to enable it for the PCI-E card and see what happens with that. It might fix that PCI card vs. PCI-E card issue you had?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> The driver doesn't add latency as long as it doesn't do anything (which it isn't, because again; you are passing your audio to an external DAC).


From what I understood, that's also exactly what happens when the board's DAC is used. The change is only in what the chip does, how it routes stuff, but not for the software, so no difference from the point of view of the CPU. The CPU still always just puts digital data into some buffer and does not have to care what the chip will do with it.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Btw. when I mentioned MSI, I meant it for this current audio problem, not for the graphics card! You could enable it for your onboard audio device and then see if you like what happens.
> 
> You could also try to enable it for the PCI-E card and see what happens with that. It might fix that PCI card vs. PCI-E card issue you had?


Now that you mention it, I tried using MSI mode for the PCI sound card and it did not work. It didn't freeze the system, it just stayed in normal interrupt mode. I'm not sure if the PCIE sound card defaulted to normal interrupt mode or MSI. I'll have to put it back in and see.


----------



## Conditioned

Afaik all modern devices are supposed to support msi but not all do. My asus essence stx doesnt for example ofc it has a few years on it by now. My geforce 680 sits nicely in msi now though.

ps. Create a registry backup and system restore before you play with the msi stuff. Only test one device at a time. After you find out which hardware supports it you can easily create .regfiles.


----------



## baskinghobo

When you say stuff like disable system tray/hotkeys and java do you mean they should be disabled because it can cause input lag on slow computers or do they cause input lag even on fast computers? I fail to understand how anything like system tray or java could cause input lag if your computer is capable of running them. My pc hit's never hits 50% cpu running both java and quake live and i have 12gb ram, core i7, ssd etc so i don't understand how disabling them could help.

Also have you tried flipqueue size at 0? Does it only work in certain games like nvidia or accross all games?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> When you benchmark Deferred Procedure Calls you benchmark Deferred Procedure Calls. You do not benchmark real responsiveness. The fixation with DPC checker is bogus.
> 
> If you want to really help, you have to research what responsiveness is. Following a web popular culture about DPC checker does not prove it.
> 
> Especially when most "optimizations" people do are not verified as actual optimizations, *even theoretically*.


Doesnt work with any of the current driver. Minimum for nvidia is 1 and on amd you can only change it on dx9 games.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Doesnt work with any of the current driver. Minimum for nvidia is 1 and on amd you can only change it on dx9 games.


wat


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## thrasherht

Reading this thread really makes me want to utilize linux much more so.

Roach you know about the input lag situation on linux, specifically debian based with gnome 2?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> That response was clearly levelled at #233.


slightly less clearly when its a misquote


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baskinghobo*
> 
> I fail to understand how anything like system tray or java could cause input lag if your computer is capable of running them.


I'd like to see a Computer Scientist answer this too. It's the million dollar question on this topic. Maybe a site like Stack Overflow or so might be able to help.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> I'd like to see a Computer Scientist answer this too. It's the million dollar question on this topic. Maybe a site like Stack Overflow or so might be able to help.


In my opinion, its clearly related to system interruptions, processes and threads

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_(computing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(computing)

Every single program, app or whatever in your computer are being kept alive by something called a process, which can contain one or many threads.
The thing is, when a computer has only one core (not that long ago) the processing core keeps switching from thread to thread, process to process to keep the user sensation of multi-tasking, for example when you're listening to a song and playing a game at the same time, the processor has to switch between those two in a small time frame, and process them both to give you the feeling that both music and game are being played at the same time (but actually they're not).

When the multi-core generation came, one of the impacts was exactly that we didnt have to stop the game thread/process anymore because there was another core available at that moment, making user experience far more fluid.

The thing is, the more processes and threads you have running in your machine, the more they will compete for the processor's attention, and the small time frame where the process is not giving your thread the attention it needs (we call it a system hold, pause) that time is what we measure as latency, usually taken a few samples and average that, to try measuring how many nanoseconds or microseconds the computer is not giving you (your favorite thread/process) the attention it needs, bacause there are dozens of threads running concurrently.

Processes and threads can be killed, kept dormant, or be active, a killed one doesnt need processing power so after its clean from the pool it disappears, the dormant process can be awaken when needed and the active one is the one you're actually using at the moment.

Thats why the less programs you have running on your system tray, or background, the lower is the user perceived latency.

Its really hard to put into words for someone outside computer science/engineering, but i hope it explains a little bit, also if i made any mistakes, feel free to correct me


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Its really hard to put into words for someone outside computer science/engineering, but i hope it explains


Yes, but the question is, if the processor is like 40% or 20% utilized, is there "latency" out of it?

out of process switching etc.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Yes, but the question is, if the processor is like 40% or 20% utilized, is there "latency" out of it?
> 
> out of process switching etc.


Latency is not generated only by using the processor too much, but almost every single resource available, i gave the processor example because its one of the most common, alongside with disk and memory access.
Even when pressing a key on your keyboard, it is generating a system's interruption.

Even if the processor is at 10, 20%, it has to keep switching between processes to check if the scheduler made any changes to its pipeline and to the process pool, and those that often make I/O calls tend to cause a greater latency (like java for its updates, Bittorrent, anti viruses that scan both memory and recently used disk areas)

Again, im trying to explain by giving examples but they might not be the best answer (and I'm not the best at explaining stuff hehehe)

Check this link http://www.tutorialspoint.com/operating_system/os_process_scheduling.htm
IO = ssd, hdd, usb, keyboard, dvd drives, mouse, etc ...

Hope it's somehow clearer


----------



## fateswarm

I understand. I wonder if there is a real perceivable difference. In practice.

PS. I also try to kill unnecessary processes but I don't know if it's needed.

*For performance, I know at least I get lower freq/voltage sometimes.


----------



## r0ach

I experimented with MSI mode on the PCIE vs PCI sound card even more (Creative Sound blaster Z vs Creative Audigy 2). Both cards default to standard interrupt mode in Windows 7. The PCIE card would go into MSI mode, and the PCI card wouldn't, but it made no difference. The PCI card was still leagues better in terms of response.

Like I said earlier, I think the PCIE sound cards are competing too heavily with the GPU resources when used on that interface. The system probably gives equal priority to both cards, which in theory sounds nice, but real time response of display and controls are obviously more important than sound.....

Also, whether I put an NVidia 570 GTX or R9 290 in, you would get a second sound device listed in the system. I assume this is the HDMI audio component of the card. Both of these defaulted to standard interrupt mode in Windows 7, but I could get both to change to MSI mode as well. I noticed no real difference in MSI mode for them, but didn't test it much.

It seems strange to me that the AMD GPU defaults to MSI interrupt mode, but the HDMI audio portion of the card that's automatically registered by the system defaults to standard non-MSI mode. Two components of the same device operating in different interrupt modes sounds ridiculous. I did not install the AMD HDMI audio driver, so maybe it does change if you install that.


----------



## baskinghobo

r0ach don't you think the investment of a high speed camera would pay itself? Some of the latency you are noticing is inhuman and when it reaches such a level i would put my trust in a high speed camera than my own body which has many variables besides placebo which can alter the result. Something that you may feel is lowering the latency could in fact be doing the opposite. Considering the amount of money your spending i reckon the camera would pay for itself. No hate, i appreciate what your doing. Your venturing uncharted territories that nobody has bothered to test, i just think buying a camera can help you out besides "proving us wrong".


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I experimented with MSI mode on the PCIE vs PCI sound card even more (Creative Sound blaster Z vs Creative Audigy 2). Both cards default to standard interrupt mode in Windows 7. The PCIE card would go into MSI mode, and the PCI card wouldn't, but it made no difference. The PCI card was still leagues better in terms of response.
> 
> Like I said earlier, I think the PCIE sound cards are competing too heavily with the GPU resources when used on that interface. The system probably gives equal priority to both cards, which in theory sounds nice, but real time response of display and controls are obviously more important than sound.....
> 
> Also, whether I put an NVidia 570 GTX or R9 290 in, you would get a second sound device listed in the system. I assume this is the HDMI audio component of the card. Both of these defaulted to standard interrupt mode in Windows 7, but I could get both to change to MSI mode as well. I noticed no real difference in MSI mode for them, but didn't test it much.
> 
> It seems strange to me that the AMD GPU defaults to MSI interrupt mode, but the HDMI audio portion of the card that's automatically registered by the system defaults to standard non-MSI mode. Two components of the same device operating in different interrupt modes sounds ridiculous. I did not install the AMD HDMI audio driver, so maybe it does change if you install that.


Do you think that the latency could be reduced by using linux? I mean if the purpuse is solely gaming, steam has already ported tons of stuff to linux so that might be an option in a couple of years,
Dont know if the linux drivers provided by the manufacturers are as good as their windows' counterparts though


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Do you think that the latency could be reduced by using linux? I mean if the purpuse is solely gaming, steam has already ported tons of stuff to linux so that might be an option in a couple of years,
> Dont know if the linux drivers provided by the manufacturers are as good as their windows' counterparts though


I havent tried linux for gaming in quite a while but when I last did you couldnt turn off mouse acceleration. Also, I´m actually not impressed with the quality of a lot of software on linux. If you would like to go the *nix way I would probably recommend freebsd even though its generally a little slower than linux. As for your question, don´t bother with *nix for gaming. I guess some games run fine and you can disable pretty much everything on it unlike windows but I dont think you will get a smother experience that differes all that much from windows.


----------



## galmba

http://www.esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-measurement-for-ql/

someone tested a lot of these with a high speed camera and aside from HPET, they had no or very little effect on input lag.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Hah, so disabling HPET actually has a _negative_ impact when it comes to latency/latency variance? Why am I not surprised.
> 
> Not sure about the prerendered frames though...


The pre-rendered frames setting is for Direct3D, cannot do anything in this particular test as QuakeLive uses OpenGL.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Xanatos

He should be doing CS GO next.


----------



## TK421

Just some extra information, my soundcard (Sennheiser 3DG4ME1) which runs the bundled headset (PC363D) massively increases DPC latency (from 50-90us to aorund 400-600us) when sound is played back. I think the culprit is the sennheiser driver (that enables the soundcard) - with laptop internal sound card it does not increase DPC latency during audio playback.

I've already put a complaint email with sennheiser, will post their reply back.


----------



## xD4rkFire

Would core unparking have any effect on input lag?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> He should be doing CS GO next.


His testing results make zero sense. It doesn't seem like he really knows what he's doing due to sections like the one below:

"HPET OFF = stutters + drops in frame rate + it adds HUGE input lag variace - I made 10 measurements and it was anything from 26ms to 90ms"

90ms is at the level of the laggiest Sony LCD televisions that exist that are generally impossible to game on. I have never experienced random input lag explosions like that for no reason by not using HPET, nor have I ever heard of anyone else mentioning anything similar.

If you claim having HPET off adds 60ms input lag, your testing methodology is obviously completely broken.


----------



## deepor

Well, he can't have made a mistake about those particular measurements as the numbers mentioned are so massive that it should have been totally obvious just looking at the screen. Something was really happening there on his machine. He said there was drops in framerate so there was some sort of bug in some driver or the game (if you don't know the game, both engine and artwork are based on stuff from 1999 and its has no problems running at 250 fps at all times on today's machines).


----------



## Axaion

Not all hardware, reacts the same way to the same software setting, im sure you know this @r0ach

Or the other way around really.

On another note, least he put out numbers instead of going by 100% feeling, he tried to somewhat measure his findings in some form or another, flawed or not, he did try.


----------



## Xanatos

yes, the irony of someone who goes by feeling calling someone else's testing methods flawed.


----------



## benbenkr

r0ach is a no-name trying to be someone awesome wannabe. He wants people to believe that whatever he feels is absolute, because he has apparently won countless championships in various fields of games, too bad it's happening only in his head.


----------



## detto87

Why does anything he says have to do sth with his skill or achievements? Explain that please.

Also, he felt smoothing, and everyone talked smash about him. Then months later a logitech rep confirmed what he said.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Why does anything he says have to do sth with his skill or achievements? Explain that please.
> 
> Also, *he felt* smoothing, and everyone talked smash about him. Then months later a logitech rep confirmed what he said.


Because he takes his *FEELINGS* which entirely *SUBJECTIVE* and label them as something *OBJECTIVE*. There would be no problems if he's just sharing what he has encountered, but going around the forum and specifically stating this option and that option affects latency, input lag and responsiveness as if it is a be-all, end-all statement is just NOT OBJECTIVE.

If in the near future I'm telling you Windows 9 has the worse input lag out of all the OS and Steam came up with some magical fix to linux for their Steam OS, ARE YOU going to switch to Steam OS and stay there permanently JUST BECAUSE I said I FELT Windows 9 is horribly laggy? Logic please.


----------



## detto87

No I won't because I can judge for myself how much I believe those statements and think they might be true.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> No I won't because I can judge for myself how much I believe those statements and think they might be true.


Exactly.

So what's wrong with people judging for themselves when they read his comments without any cold, hard, factual scientific data?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> So what's wrong with people judging for themselves when they read his comments without any cold, hard, factual scientific data?


About cold, hard, factual data... if I look at your post #259, did r0ach actually say any of the stuff you mentioned there? Where can I go and read those posts he made?


----------



## Lust

can someone help me disable HPET? i cant find it in my UEFI bios. mobo is an Asus maximus vi hero. also another question, should i install the intel chipset drivers? the only drivers i installed was intel LAN, soundcard, and graphics drivers

also when adjusting my bios settings i get an overall lower DPC latency but i get random spikes to 150-300


----------



## Trull

I don't understand how your maximum DPC latency is 19μs, r0ach. Did you take that screenshot with internet disabled? Because in my system the biggest latency spikes by far are tcpip.sys and ndis.sys, which are both network related, and these spikes happen simply by being connected to the internet, since the router keeps sending small packages to the computer even if it's doing nothing.

Could you elaborate on this one?


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I don't understand how your maximum DPC latency is 19μs, r0ach. Did you take that screenshot with internet disabled? Because in my system the biggest latency spikes by far are tcpip.sys and ndis.sys, which are both network related, and these spikes happen simply by being connected to the internet, since the router keeps sending small packages to the computer even if it's doing nothing.
> 
> Could you elaborate on this one?


whats so weird?i have with hyper threading disabled under 10 with spikes to 12/15 with dcp latency checker, and same like you with latency moon it shows the spikes from tcpip.sys,acpi.sys, iusb3xhc.sys which is usb 3.0 drivers,iastorv.sys intel matrix storage manager driver.i'm using a nic for internet and it's better than the stock one.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> whats so weird?i have with hyper threading disabled under 10 with spikes to 12/15 with dcp latency checker, and same like you with latency moon it shows the spikes from tcpip.sys,acpi.sys, iusb3xhc.sys which is usb 3.0 drivers,iastorv.sys intel matrix storage manager driver.i'm using a nic for internet and it's better than the stock one.


If those things are causing spikes then DPC Latency Checker shouldn't show 12/15 as a maximum.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> If those things are causing spikes then DPC Latency Checker shouldn't show 12/15 as a maximum.


Those internet drivers don't block anything and seem to be ignored. Even if those drivers take milliseconds to deal with something, the OS can still interrupt them and run something else on that core like the driver that deals with your mouse or the one that answers to something the GPU wants, etc. In LatencyMon, I don't think those Internet drivers add to the max dpc latency measured.

If you disable all power saving stuff and let the CPU run at full clock speed all the time without the cores ever shutting down, that's how you can get the lowest possible numbers on your machine in LatencyMon. There was something about the Z87 boards all having very high numbers and impossible to get close to zero so that's what might happen for you if you compare with older stuff. I don't know if that Z87 story is with default setting or with all power saving disabled.

Also, with HPET enabled, I think what happens is that it might allow finer steps for time measurement. LatencyMon then shows lower numbers but what's actually happening on the machine is exactly the same. It's the numbers that get measured differently. That's just an idea, don't know if it's true.

Anyway... other than this thread here, you normally just want to not have sound drop out or animations stutter on the screen. If everything appears to look well, that normally means everything about DPC latency is fine.


----------



## Arxeal

How does RAM CR effect input lag?
Would 2T cause more input lag than 1T?
My DDR3 8G can work on default 1333 CR1 or "XMP 1600 CR=2T".


----------



## r0ach

I hadn't tried newer Nvidia drivers in a long time and just loaded the newest WHQL 344.11. They have drastically reduced lag on these things. They were laggy pieces of junk for years during the entire 400, 500, 600, and 700 series. I'm not sure what driver they finally fixed it, but they're back to good again. I had briefly tried a driver around the "miracle" driver released and noticed they decreased lag then, but now it's great. AMD drivers are actually much worse than these Nvidia now.

I would also highly recommend everyone to buy a PCI (not PCI-E) Soundblaster X-FI Platinum on ebay for $15-30. This is the last good PCI sound card made. I was on an Audigy 2 ZS then got the newest card, the Soundblaster Z PCI-E, and these PCI-E sound cards really do kill the twitch response of the mouse. The X-FI just recently got new drivers from the year 2014 for win 7 + win 8.1 that are way better than most cards as well. When you install the drivers it installs two apps in program manager. Remove both afterwards and the driver stays installed without the Creative bloat nonsense.

With the new Nvidia drivers + these new X-Fi drivers my system feels perfect now, like being back in the year 1990 again.


----------



## Axaion

>Last good sound card was creative
>Creative good

My sides are offcially in orbit, trying to catch up to the voyager.

Im still going with the theres something wrong with your system somehow, as the intel motherboards dont even support legacy PCI anymore, the PCI is through another chip, which should actually increase latency over a native solution.

..well at least im pretty sure they dont have native PCI support since P67 or something, someone correct me with source please if im incorrect


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> >Last good sound card was creative
> >Creative good
> 
> My sides are offcially in orbit, trying to catch up to the voyager.
> 
> Im still going with the theres something wrong with your system somehow, as the intel motherboards dont even support legacy PCI anymore, the PCI is through another chip, which should actually increase latency over a native solution.
> 
> ..well at least im pretty sure they dont have native PCI support since P67 or something, someone correct me with source please if im incorrect


i think this PCI/PCI-E spikes latency it depends by motherboard.look my rig down.i have in the 1st slot my 7870,3rd my intel nic,4th sound blaster z.
overclocked at 5 ghz with all the stuff disabled (c states,executable bit,internal lan/audio,cpu gpu,and sata unused and hyper threading and maybe other stuff i don't remember) dpclat bounse between 6-9 and spikes to12 and rare spike to 14μs.


----------



## Trull

Surely there are other PCI sound cards that are good... what about the Asus DG, DX, D1..? all three are PCI, among many others.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> i think this PCI/PCI-E spikes latency it depends by motherboard.look my rig down.i have in the 1st slot my 7870,3rd my intel nic,4th sound blaster z.
> overclocked at 5 ghz with all the stuff disabled (c states,executable bit,internal lan/audio,cpu gpu,and sata unused and hyper threading and maybe other stuff i don't remember) dpclat bounse between 6-9 and spikes to12 and rare spike to 14μs.


It's not about DPC latency.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> It's not about DPC latency.


what is about ?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> what is about ?


He already explained that it's motherboard lag. He explains it in the OP.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> [...] the intel motherboards dont even support legacy PCI anymore, the PCI is through another chip, which should actually increase latency over a native solution.
> 
> ..well at least im pretty sure they dont have native PCI support since P67 or something, someone correct me with source please if im incorrect


You can look up spec sheets of the PCHs on that "ARK" website of Intel, just like with their CPUs. I looked up Z77 as an example, and it seems it's exactly like you say. The chip can't do PCI, can only do PCI-E 2.0, has 8 lanes that can be configured as x1, x2 or x4 slots. So if a board has PCI slots, that has to be done by some other chip, and I assume that one will then be wired to one of the PCI-E 2.0 lanes of the PCH.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> He already explained that it's motherboard lag. He explains it in the OP.


well yes already knew that,but with dpclat it gives u an idea bout it,and lower is better,and i can see it when booting and on desktop my mouse is more responsive.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> well yes already knew that,but with dpclat it gives u an idea bout it,and lower is better,and i can see it when booting and on desktop my mouse is more responsive.


No. DPC latency won't tell you if your PCIe sound card is lagging your system... just like it won't tell you how much inherent hardware input lag your system has. DPC is kernel related.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> No. DPC latency won't tell you if your PCIe sound card is lagging your system... just like it won't tell you how much inherent hardware input lag your system has. DPC is kernel related.


well yes,but if is low its better right?
how to check mobo latency ?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Axaion

@Oubadah I didnt see your post, sorry but I assume we agree on this then, right?

Personally I would get the Auzentech Forte, i still have no idea why i was dumb enough to buy the sound blaster Z when i had the Xonar DX alread


----------



## r0ach

Yes, I am aware that boards have stopped supporting native PCI and are now doing it with add-on chips, but it still seems much better than using a PCI-E card, and you can't turn the add-on chips off in the BIOS anyway. The X-Fi has very new drivers from 2014 that are much more lightweight than the Soundblaster Z drivers as well. Using the Soundblaster Z with no driver installed was detected with Windows UAA, I think, and it still worked, but it was way more sluggish than using the X-Fi with driver installed. Then if you actually installed the bloated Soundblaster-Z driver package, it gets even worse.

There was my original post on it below:
Quote:


> *PCIE sound cards are garbage*
> 
> I used an Audigy 2 ZS PCI soundcard for years with no problems. I "upgraded" to the newest Soundblaster Z PCIE card a few weeks back. Immediately after starting to use the PCIE card I noticed dragging a window around on the desktop had way more chop to it, mouse response also felt off or dulled down, overall everything just sucked. It was the same on both the z77 Gigabyte, and z87 MSI I tested.
> 
> I tried using the PCIE card without Creative drivers installed (it still played sound fine without even installing drivers), and with Creative drivers. Using it without driver installed causes less lag, but still horrible compared to the plain Audigy 2 PCI card. There is obviously some kind of problem with how PCIE sound cards compete with your GPU over the PCIE lanes.
> 
> I think using a sound card in a PCI slot is routing everything through the south bridge or 3rd party PCI controller on modern chipsets. Then using a sound card in a PCIE slot might be running off different lanes not routed through the south bridge that conflict with the lanes used by the GPU? I don't know the exact explanation, I just know my PCIE sound card is now sitting in the closet rusting.


I'm not real sure on the specifics of how these cards are operating, whether it be WDM, UAA, or whatever, but getting a Soundblaster Z is definitely a bad idea, and most likely any PCI-E card in general. I also like how you can completely uninstall the Creative packages on the X-FI and just the barebone driver stays in still working keeping overhead at a minimum.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> All I can say is that I've never experienced any such effect when comparing my systems with PCI-E vs PCI cards, and recently I've been doing that a lot. Plausibility also seems extremely tenuous.


There are some other variables to it as well besides the ones I mentioned. I believe many older cards use WDM drivers to try and preserve hardware features, while others are using UAA. UAA was created from supposedly a stability perspective, but I don't know if that translates into anything beneficial or negative in other areas. I still think it's probably something to do with the system giving similar or equal priority to the sound card as the GPU while using a PCI-E sound card, when the sound card should really be treated as a second class citizen.

The Sound Blaster Z PCI-E used in my example is a definite no go regardless. It's by far the most bloated Creative driver ever made. Running the card without the driver installed with Windows auto detection bogged down my system somewhat, then installing the driver made it worse. If you insist on using a PCI-E card, the Titanium or Titanium HD would probably be the one to get due to drivers being much more lightweight, but I'd get the SB0460 X-Fi or X-Fi plat PCI.

There's always the possibility that the default Windows UAA driver is a heavy buffering swamp driver to prevent popping and clipping, and that the Soundblaster Z driver is even worse, while PCI-E sound cards in general aren't at fault, but I don't believe this is the case.

As for the board diagram, I currently use a Gigabyte Z77 UD5H and an Asus Z77. For the Asus board, they specifically mention that using a PCI-E 1x port will share an IRQ with a corresponding PCI-E 16x port, while I don't believe there is any issue like that running them off PCI, so it's not really as cut and dry in terms of shared resources.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Having owned the Forte myself, I can't really recommend it. I don't remember the specifics, but that model had various issues, one being some kind of interference problem (I can remember people trying to solve it my taping up the card's bracket to isolate it). Auzentech/HDA used to make some really good cards, but after the Prelude they seemed to drop the ball. Of all the X-Fi EMU20K2 cards, the Onkyo WAVIO SE-300 is probably the best, but since few are willing to shell out that much (if they can even find one for sale), I'd recommend the Titanium HD as the second best choice. It isn't perfect though, and depending on what GPU I used with mine (I've had two), they could pick up minor noise on the analogue outputs. That's why I've mainly used Asus Essence cards since, they're always very clean.


Oh yeah, i did the same with my DX, seems the brackets on both were kinda glitchy - no idea how i forgot about that

Only thing holding me off from the Asus cards is their equally bad support, but at least they have the UNi Xonar drivers, im honestly tempted to install my DX again just to see what changed since last year with them, its the same chips as the Z anyway.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Oh yeah, i did the same with my DX, seems the brackets on both were kinda glitchy - no idea how i forgot about that
> 
> Only thing holding me off from the Asus cards is their equally bad support, but at least they have the UNi Xonar drivers, im honestly tempted to install my DX again just to see what changed since last year with them, its the same chips as the Z anyway.


the pci-e ssd will decrease the input latency?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> the pci-e ssd will decrease the input latency?


What are you smoking?, itll decrease load times in general, but input latency is not effected at all if its loaded into RAM already

I wonder where you even got that question from what i wrote from though..


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> What are you smoking?, itll decrease load times in general, but input latency is not effected at all if its loaded into RAM already
> 
> I wonder where you even got that question from what i wrote from though..


jeeezz.i know what is an ssd.
i asked if will decrease latency compared to the sata ssds. chill bro,dont shoot me


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> jeeezz.i know what is an ssd.
> i asked if will decrease latency compared to the sata ssds. chill bro,dont shoot me


That should do nothing for latency of mouse and keyboard.

It should be possible for the drive itself to have lower latency for reading and writing to it compared to a drive that has to go through SATA.


----------



## ranseed

What do you guys think about this from the input lag test on esr?

Turning off scaling completely in nvidia control panel resulted in ~3ms more input lag, but it might be due to the low amount of measurements


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> What do you guys think about this from the input lag test on esr?
> 
> Turning off scaling completely in nvidia control panel resulted in ~3ms more input lag, but it might be due to the low amount of measurements


I feel it wouldn't be that strange to think that NVIDIA made a mistake somewhere and that's where the illogical difference comes from, but those 3 ms plus low amount of measurements might simply mean that everything's actually fixed and the driver now correctly has lowest possible latency whenever there's no scaling needed, so both when you disable all scaling and also when resolutions of picture and panel are the same.


----------



## InputLagSucks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> >Last good sound card was creative
> >Creative good
> 
> My sides are offcially in orbit, trying to catch up to the voyager.


X-FI's in Audio Creation Mode w/ matched playback produce very good audio.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> What do you guys think about this from the input lag test on esr?
> 
> Turning off scaling completely in nvidia control panel resulted in ~3ms more input lag, but it might be due to the low amount of measurements


Is it the same guy that claimed disabling HPET added 90ms input lag? We all know that doesn't happen, so I don't think his testing methodology is very good.

I don't have much experience with newer Nvidia drivers, but I can say 100% for sure that turning scaling off reduces input lag a lot on 267.59, 290.53, and 295.73, which were the only good low input lag drivers for 500 series cards.


----------



## deepor

There's another guy that does similar kinds of testing on the blurbusters forums, though only with a G100s and not different mice, and he got delay numbers for the mouse clicks that fit with what was measured, so the testing method was probably completely fine. No idea what was going on with HPET on that particular machine, probably just a bug somewhere in a driver.


----------



## Vantavia

Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)

Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)

One (or both?) of these updates adds INSANE input lag that is native to the windows 8 kernel. It actually effects my Osu! gameplay to a laughable extent. I moved back to Windows 7 to enjoy the long awaited "miracle" driver but after I fully updated windows it suddenly felt laggy again, low and behold I find a windows 8 hand-me-down update that sodomized my fresh install >.>


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)
> 
> Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)
> 
> One (or both?) of these updates adds INSANE input lag that is native to the windows 8 kernel. It actually effects my Osu! gameplay to a laughable extent. I moved back to Windows 7 to enjoy the long awaited "miracle" driver but after I fully updated windows it suddenly felt laggy again, low and behold I find a windows 8 hand-me-down update that sodomized my fresh install >.>


wat.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> wat.


Is the concept of the Windows 8.1 kernel being significantly flawed really that hard to believe? It had a noticeable effect on my Osu! gameplay as soon as it auto installed behind my back and I resumed playing like I did before when I uninstalled it. I even asked a friend to spectate me to compare the difference.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Is the concept of the Windows 8.1 kernel being significantly flawed really that hard to believe? It had a noticeable effect on my Osu! gameplay as soon as it auto installed behind my back and I resumed playing like I did before when I uninstalled it. I even asked a friend to spectate me to compare the difference.


I mean mroe like, why have I never heard of this untill now. also, does uninstalling these 2 have any negative effect on the OS?


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I mean mroe like, why have I never heard of this untill now. also, does uninstalling these 2 have any negative effect on the OS?


You can reinstall them via Windows Update, make sure they don't auto install straight away after you uninstall them. They had no effect on my system other than making me play worse by causing strange issues.

Personally I hid those 2 updates since you can unhide them if for some silly reason you want/need them again









Check your DPC latency as well, the latest intel ethernet drivers gave me frequent DPC spikes of 6,100us. I reinstalled the old ones suggested by asus and I don't go over 500 now :c


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> You can reinstall them via Windows Update, make sure they don't auto install straight away after you uninstall them. They had no effect on my system other than making me play worse by causing strange issues.
> 
> Personally I hid those 2 updates since you can unhide them if for some silly reason you want/need them again


I have those two updates since.... 2012, maybe it decreases input lag but im afraid to remove it because it might **** up my aim :/


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I have those two updates since.... 2012, maybe it decreases input lag but im afraid to remove it because it might **** up my aim :/


You can reinstall them at any time
http://prntscr.com/4sm888
http://prntscr.com/4sm84p


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> You can reinstall them xd


That works, I'll try it on my laptop first, just because I dont feel like rebooting my PC


----------



## CookieBook

I didn't have to reboot my laptop? I can feel a difference already when using the trackpad but will rebooting result in a even better experience?

#NoSSDlife


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> You can reinstall them via Windows Update, make sure they don't auto install straight away after you uninstall them. They had no effect on my system other than making me play worse by causing strange issues.
> 
> Personally I hid those 2 updates since you can unhide them if for some silly reason you want/need them again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check your DPC latency as well, the latest intel ethernet drivers gave me frequent DPC spikes of 6,100us. I reinstalled the old ones suggested by asus and I don't go over 500 now :c


Guess I'll stick to Windows 7 for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I didn't have to reboot my laptop? I can feel a difference already when using the trackpad but will rebooting result in a even better experience?
> 
> #NoSSDlife


I'm not sure which one causes the issues or if it's both. Make a cup of tea while you restart or something


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Guess I'll stick to Windows 7 for the foreseeable future.


Just to clarify, we are talking ABOUT windows 7 and removing the Kernel updates for 7 that are native in windows 8 (as far as I know)


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I'm not sure which one causes the issues or if it's both. Make a cup of tea while you restart or something


Location: England, gotcha. I rebooted, didnt make a difference. But I can notice it on my ****ty trackpad + 60hz laptop monitor. It feels a little more "raw"? I suppose.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Just to clarify, we are talking ABOUT windows 7 and removing the Kernel updates for 7 that are native in windows 8 (as far as I know)


Huh. Why remove them though? Aren't they critical to the operating system to function as advertise? I doubt they'd put out updates that cause input lag. And this is like the only topic about these two updates causing input lag...

I'm doubtful.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Huh. Why remove them though? Aren't they critical to the operating system to function as advertise? I doubt they'd put out updates that cause input lag. And this is like the only topic about these two updates causing input lag...
> 
> I'm doubtful.


This is the same company that capped generic mice to 200hz in their latest OS, removed the start menu and added a full touchscreen replacement on a desktop OS. Do you think Microsoft can even fathem input lag when casual gamers are already complacent with 30/60fps and buy their stupid consoles?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Location: England, gotcha. I rebooted, didnt make a difference. But I can notice it on my ****ty trackpad + 60hz laptop monitor. It feels a little more "raw"? I suppose.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I didn't have to reboot my laptop? I can feel a difference already when using the trackpad but will rebooting result in a even better experience?
> 
> #NoSSDlife


The first person who bothered to try it noticed a difference.

If Windows 7 is capable of running with no updates, it's sure as hell capable of not running with those two specific updates. I played Osu! with it before AND after, and I haven't incurred the wrath of the Microsoft gods.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> This is the same company that capped generic mice to 200hz in their latest OS, removed the start menu and added a full touchscreen replacement on a desktop OS. Do you think Microsoft can even fathem input lag when casual gamers are already complacent with 30/60fps and buy their stupid consoles?


200Hz? What? Source on that? Seems like bull.

Anyway, I'm all for getting rid of input lag as much as possible. But when you're removing updates to the operating system, kernel updates even... I don't know. That seems idiotic.


----------



## Vantavia

I reinstalled Windows 7 (Away from windows 8 because you can't disable GPU scaling on windows 8 with nvidia's latest drivers). I overclocked my new WMO to 1000hz and everything was nice and responsive (as far as nvidia goes atleast).

I then ran windows updater and after a few batches of updates I suddenly I felt the same unresponsiveness that I have on windows 8.

I remembered seeing r0ach say on the forums that the windows 8 kernel is available as an update for 7, so I looked at installed updates and there it was. I uninstalled it and everything is back to normal.

It had a large/visible impact on my Osu! gameplay and I couldn't care less if it means I get a slight performance for a system that runs infinitely better than before.

Oh, and if you want to fanboy every recommended update you're in for a shock.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/13391/20140820/bsod-gives-microsoft-blues-faulty-patch-tuesday-update-yanked.htm


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> 200Hz? What? Source on that? Seems like bull.
> 
> Anyway, I'm all for getting rid of input lag as much as possible. But when you're removing updates to the operating system, kernel updates even... I don't know. That seems idiotic.


That 200 Hz cap (or whatever it was exactly) did really happen. It was active for programs that didn't use raw mouse input, so normal Windows programs and older games. Those did get a reduced amount of updates for the mouse position. I think the reasoning was to let the CPU sleep more to save power. It's fixed on current Windows 8.1.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> That 200 Hz cap (or whatever it was exactly) did really happen. It was active for programs that didn't use raw mouse input, so normal Windows programs and older games. Those did get a reduced amount of updates for the mouse position. I think the reasoning was to let the CPU sleep more to save power. It's fixed on current Windows 8.1.


You still can't alter the polling rate of mice like the WMO like you can on 7 though.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I reinstalled Windows 7 (Away from windows 8 because you can't disable GPU scaling on windows 8 with nvidia's latest drivers). I overclocked my new WMO to 1000hz and everything was nice and responsive (as far as nvidia goes atleast).
> 
> I then ran windows updater and after a few batches of updates I suddenly I felt the same unresponsiveness that I have on windows 8.
> 
> I remembered seeing r0ach say on the forums that the windows 8 kernel is available as an update for 7, so I looked at installed updates and there it was. I uninstalled it and everything is back to normal.
> 
> It had a large/visible impact on my Osu! gameplay and I couldn't care less if it means I get a slight performance for a system that runs infinitely better than before.


I think he was referring to this post I made to "metal571", a guy that for some reason insists on using Windows 8. I told him they backported several Win8 changes as optional updates to Win7: http://www.overclock.net/t/1511145/mionix-avior-7000-has-swamp-cursor/190#post_22930356

I do not personally use any of those updates myself. The update titled "platform update" used to consist of 3-4 different updates, then they bundled them all together along with some Win8 changes and released it on Win7. If you want to play a game like Ultima Online on Win7, one of the updates that was bundled into platform update is actually needed for stability purposes. I'm not sure what other games are affected.

*Also, I think I was wrong about the X-FI PCI sound card being the best choice for gamers*. The previous Audigy 2 (and probably audigy 4 but I haven't tested it) card drivers only run 2 processes and seem to be more lightweight. The X-FI drivers run several more bloatware processes with functions ranging from EAX compatibility (which probably doesn't work in Win 7 anyway), and another one that just polls your system looking for headphone detection.

I did a fresh install comparing the two drivers and the Audigy 2 driver is the clear winner in terms of lag. If you use the X-FI, you need to look into seeing which, if any of those processes you can disable or get rid of. The X-Fi sound quality is definitely better, but not enough difference to make up for me running a bloatware driver. I'll look into if any of those processes can be gotten rid of without negative effects in the future.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I think he was referring to this post I made to "metal571", a guy that for some reason insists on using Windows 8. I told him they backported several Win8 changes as optional updates to Win7: http://www.overclock.net/t/1511145/mionix-avior-7000-has-swamp-cursor/190#post_22930356
> 
> I do not personally use any of those updates myself. The update titled "platform update" used to consist of 3-4 different updates, then they bundled them all together along with some Win8 changes and released it on Win7. If you want to play a game like Ultima Online on Win7, one of the updates that was bundled into platform update is actually needed for stability purposes. I'm not sure what other games are affected.
> 
> *Also, I think I was wrong about the X-FI PCI sound card being the best choice for gamers*. The previous Audigy 2 (and probably audigy 4 but I haven't tested it) card drivers only run 2 processes and seem to be more lightweight. The X-FI drivers run several more bloatware processes with functions ranging from EAX compatibility (which probably doesn't work in Win 7 anyway), and another one that just polls your system looking for headphone detection.
> 
> I did a fresh install comparing the two drivers and the Audigy 2 driver is the clear winner in terms of lag. If you use the X-FI, you need to look into seeing which, if any of those processes you can disable or get rid of. The X-Fi sound quality is definitely better, but not enough difference to make up for me running a bloatware driver. I'll look into if any of those processes can be gotten rid of without negative effects in the future.


Could you clarify the rest of the update bundle so I can see if further gains are possible? Also, I'd suggest that you add those updates to the main post since they have a real effect on my gameplay unlike most of the other tweaks.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I think he was referring to this post I made to "metal571", a guy that for some reason insists on using Windows 8. I told him they backported several Win8 changes as optional updates to Win7: http://www.overclock.net/t/1511145/mionix-avior-7000-has-swamp-cursor/190#post_22930356
> 
> I do not personally use any of those updates myself. The update titled "platform update" used to consist of 3-4 different updates, then they bundled them all together along with some Win8 changes and released it on Win7. If you want to play a game like Ultima Online on Win7, one of the updates that was bundled into platform update is actually needed for stability purposes. I'm not sure what other games are affected.
> 
> *Also, I think I was wrong about the X-FI PCI sound card being the best choice for gamers*. The previous Audigy 2 (and probably audigy 4 but I haven't tested it) card drivers only run 2 processes and seem to be more lightweight. The X-FI drivers run several more bloatware processes with functions ranging from EAX compatibility (which probably doesn't work in Win 7 anyway), and another one that just polls your system looking for headphone detection.
> 
> I did a fresh install comparing the two drivers and the Audigy 2 driver is the clear winner in terms of lag. If you use the X-FI, you need to look into seeing which, if any of those processes you can disable or get rid of. The X-Fi sound quality is definitely better, but not enough difference to make up for me running a bloatware driver. I'll look into if any of those processes can be gotten rid of without negative effects in the future.


Why insist on Creative PCI cards?


----------



## zalbard

After years of using Creative hardware, all I can say is that their software is absolute trash, and it keeps getting worse. I would recommend using an external DAC...


----------



## Dylan Nails

should i uninstall all Microsoft Visual C++ and Microsoft .NET Frameworks? i have a ton of these under "uninstall or change a program". what are these for?

oh and what about the nvidia drivers under uninstall programs, like nvidia 3d vision driver, nvidia graphics driver, nvidia physx system software, etc


----------



## zalbard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> should i uninstall all Microsoft Visual C++ and Microsoft .NET Frameworks? i have a ton of these under "uninstall or change a program". what are these for?


Some of your software may stop running. Keep these. They contain stuff like shared DLLs.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> should i uninstall all Microsoft Visual C++ and Microsoft .NET Frameworks? i have a ton of these under "uninstall or change a program". what are these for?


On a fresh install 90% of my games and programs complain about missing dll's. Don't remove you .net frameworks they are essential, if anything download the newer ones you are missing as they may increase performance on games that can use them.


----------



## Dylan Nails

so i shouldnt unstill ANY of the microsoft C++ or .NET Frameworks correct? and what about the nvidia ones? on r0ach's guide he doesnt have any of this downloaded


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> so i shouldnt unstill ANY of the microsoft C++ or .NET Frameworks correct? and what about the nvidia ones? on r0ach's guide he doesnt have any of this downloaded


Take it with a pinch of salt, if you take into account games would show up there then you would be left with nothing other than a blank screen.


----------



## Dylan Nails

do certain browsers have less input lag and what browser do you use r0ach? i like firefox the best


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> do certain browsers have less input lag and what browser do you use r0ach? i like firefox the best


Firefox and Chrome are the only real contenders. Chrome is more useable out the box. Firefox is more customisable but has an appalling UI to start with. I normally use chrome until I can be bothered to set up firefox nicely.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Firefox and Chrome are the only real contenders. Chrome is more useable out the box. Firefox is more customisable but has an appalling UI to start with. I normally use chrome until I can be bothered to set up firefox nicely.


i forgot to include i use firefox 28, i hate the new version of firefox where it looks like a chrome copy. i hate the look of google chrome. using an old version of firefox doesnt do anything bad right?


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> i forgot to include i use firefox 28, i hate the new version of firefox where it looks like a chrome copy. i hate the look of google chrome. using an old version of firefox doesnt do anything bad right?


Just use the FT deepdark theme on the latest version it looks 100x better.


----------



## r0ach

Intel ethernet 19.3 driver = 6000 dpc latency, don't install it. Worst driver I have ever seen.


----------



## error-id10t

Spoiler: I'm running that version no problems.



____________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:03:07 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: DESKTOP
OS version: Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware: All Series, ASUS, ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., Z87-PRO
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz
Logical processors: 8
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 8129 MB total

____________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 60.552389
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 6.735623

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 49.098419
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 2.845737

____________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 49.959250
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.008459
Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.009767

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 15530
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

____________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPC
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 67.9330
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: tcpip.sys - TCP/IP Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.011894
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software Projects Sp.

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.021985

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 123448
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0


----------



## r0ach

That's strange, but Z87 probably uses a different intel NIC than the 82579V in Z77.


----------



## error-id10t

Yeap should've listed what it is; l217-V.


----------



## amvnz

edit: Had a problem but resolved it myself. I had Latencymon set to kernel timer mode instead of user interrupt mode. On Windows 8.1 I get anywhere from 16~30us with spikes as low as 2us and as high as 70us. Sadly HPET is hidden in gigabyte bios. So it seems to be on because it is in device manager. I left MEI in device manager too. I did disable turbo, eist, c1, c3, set to exmPerf, set to high performance power plan but I kept C6/7 states enabled (slowest state, I know) but dpc seems great and realtemp shows the c6/7 state being used 97% of the time and using up 24W which is far better than balanced power plan with fluctuating clock speeds, all c states, etc which actually used up more power and was slower.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Intel ethernet 19.3 driver = 6000 dpc latency, don't install it. Worst driver I have ever seen.


I've been having that issue but I haven't found a version that works normally :/


----------



## HiTechPixel

Would love a comparison between Windows 7 with kernel updates removed and Windows 10.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Would love a comparison between Windows 7 with kernel updates removed and Windows 10.


Given that it's an update that even got backported I have no reason to doubt that windows 10 will have the same cancerous kernel which will probably end up requiring a petition to get fixed.


----------



## r0ach

edit: changed double post


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I've been having that issue but I haven't found a version that works normally :/


Intel had been adding a bunch of bloat to ethernet drivers during the 18.x and 19.x series and I had noticed some funny business going on with drivers during this transition but still continued to use them anyway. I have now rolled all the way back to 17.4, back to a time period when I knew my system worked perfectly now that I know for sure Intel was going in the wrong direction with these drivers. So I would advise 17.4 for anyone on Z77 chipset or older, but not sure about which one I would run on Z87 and Z97

The link for 17.4 ethernet driver is still listed as the main one on the Gigabyte z77 UD5H site as well:

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4139#dl
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> do certain browsers have less input lag and what browser do you use r0ach? i like firefox the best


I started using Firefox again recently now that it looks almost the same was Chromium (lol). Firefox piss poor performance is still there as always though. Opening 14 tabs was bouncing up and down between 24-44% CPU use on a 3570k at stock speed on a fresh windows install without even having flash installed.

I've never seen any kind of performance drain on a system like that from Chromium before. I have all hardware acceleration turned off to keep the GPU in lowest power state, so I think they probably became sloppy with their coding and just depend on the GPU acceleration to bruteforce it's way through their unoptimized code. I'm still using Firefox anyway though for now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zalbard*
> 
> After years of using Creative hardware, all I can say is that their software is absolute trash, and it keeps getting worse. I would recommend using an external DAC...


Just plugging in a PC gamepad controller makes your mouse movement slightly bogged down, so there is no way in hell I would run a USB DAC. This leaves me with probably HDMI out for audio the only option, and I would never utilize passthrough, so that means I would have to connect the monitor with DVI, and run audio out from the GPU over a second line on the HDMI port. This would probably cause the GPU to stay permanently in 3d clocks, or many other potential annoying issues, so running a PCI sound card with the most light weight drivers possible seems like the best current option.

As for the PC gamepad stuff, some of them are much worse in terms of negative hit on mouse movement than others. Some barely effect it, while others are real bad I just disconnect them and only plug them in when I want to use them and the only two USB items I ever have plugged in are mouse + keyboard.


----------



## Dylan Nails

r0ach, under my installed windows updates i have one of each: Kernel-Mode Driver Framework v1.11 and Internet Explorer 11, should i uninstall these under windows update? idk why Kernel is so important, ive never heard of it


----------



## MasterBash

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 401.764857
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.11 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.013945
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.11 , NVIDIA Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.040425

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 16845
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 2
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

I am not sure why the nvidia drivers always spike so high. Sometimes its even higher.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 401.764857
> Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.11 , NVIDIA Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.013945
> Driver with highest DPC total execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.11 , NVIDIA Corporation
> 
> Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.040425
> 
> DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 16845
> DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 2
> DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> I am not sure why the nvidia drivers always spike so high. Sometimes its even higher.


Suffice to say if AMD makes a good batch of cards team green can go swivel.


----------



## deepor

If you have power saving enabled and use offset voltage and your CPU goes down to 1600 MHz, with full speed being 4500 MHz or something... if your Windows behaves like mine, changing stuff to fixed voltage and disabling C1E and EIST would change those 402 µs into 143 µs (that's 402 * 1600 / 4500).

If it's like that for you, meaning you have power saving enabled, then don't worry about the high spikes, instead think of it as a 140 µs spike (as in this example about a 4500 MHz overclock). You can do that because, while a game is running, the CPU should run at full speed and the spikes are only there when you are doing stuff on the desktop and things run at 1600 MHz.

Also... look at the average number. That should be super low for the NVIDIA driver. You have to calculate the average by hand as it's not shown by LatencyMon. There's a column that shows the total time spent serving interrupts by the drivers and there's a total count for interrupt events. You have to take that total time and divide by number of interrupts and the result is the average time spent inside the DPC of a driver. No idea how often those spikes happen for the NVIDIA driver, but they can't be happening very often if your average is super low like mine.


----------



## MasterBash

Ya, I decided to test it out and that fixed it. Using dpc latency checker I get 5-15 now. As soon as I run Chrome, it goes to 1000 though.. Weird?

Latency Monitor looks a lot better now.

EDIT: It happens only when I look at videos on youtube.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Ya, I decided to test it out and that fixed it. Using dpc latency checker I get 5-15 now. As soon as I run Chrome, it goes to 1000 though.. Weird?
> 
> Latency Monitor looks a lot better now.
> 
> EDIT: It happens only when I look at videos on youtube.


Thats flashplayer for ya.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> r0ach, under my installed windows updates i have one of each: Kernel-Mode Driver Framework v1.11 and Internet Explorer 11, should i uninstall these under windows update? idk why Kernel is so important, ive never heard of it


bump, need to know before i **** something up


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> bump, need to know before i **** something up


Look into System Restore and create a restore point so that you can revert the change you want to do.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> r0ach, under my installed windows updates i have one of each: Kernel-Mode Driver Framework v1.11 and Internet Explorer 11, should i uninstall these under windows update? idk why Kernel is so important, ive never heard of it


If you mean one of the following updates, then no, you don't need them:

http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/2685813

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2685811


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> If you mean one of the following updates, then no, you don't need them:
> 
> http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/2685813
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2685811


i saw you talking about how bad kernel is though, if i remove this will it take away latency, as well as internet explorer? i have already turned internet explorer off but havent uninstalled the windows update for it.

which version of windows 7 do you find best btw? i use home premium


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Thats flashplayer for ya.


Yep, seems like it, but microsoft silverlight also does the same thing, it seems.

DPC Latency Checker now says 4-6μs on average just by disabling BIOS power saving **** and dwm on Windows 8.1. It seems pretty good now.

I don't think I can really lower it even more, unless I go to the extreme and do every single things roach wrote in this guide. Mouse feels a bit better, but I am not ready to disable things like execute disable bit, xhci, removing my sound card and HID service. I also use MSI Afterburner to OC. The rest was already done a long time ago, whenever I reset my BIOS or whatever.

EDIT: Well I guess I disabled xHCI, it definitely makes a difference, although not when it comes to DPC but input lag. Since I don't use USB 3.0 that much, I guess I will keep it disabled. However, execute disable bit, my soundcard and HID service wont change.


----------



## kurtextrem

What about the ShaderCache and new Virtual-Reality Pre Rendered Frames setting? (NVIDIA driver)


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> What about the ShaderCache


Haven't tested newer Nvidia drivers much. I will after I get a 970. From what I looked into with shadercache, the cache size limit seemed too anemic to really even be useful, so you probably wouldn't be missing out on much with it off.

I've been messing around with Intel Ethernet drivers more, 19.1 seems good so far:



I've never seen any driver as bad as the 19.3. The 19.1 are better than the 17.4 also, so no need to revert that far back now.


----------



## Vantavia

I'm trying to rewrite this with less waffle/sensationalism and a few of my own contributions









*Introduction*

Ignoring framerate issues, if you leave all BIOS settings at default and plug a mouse into a Pentium 3 or Athlon System, the overall latency and responsiveness is much better compared to a modern Haswell system. Neither Intel or Microsoft optimize anything for general system latency. Over the years they've added dozens of latency creating settings that didn't exist in the past.

*DPC Latency*

DPC Latency is mostly a measure of how ready, willing, and able a non-real time OS is to deal with requests from the user. It's not a measure of input lag, but will give you a good idea of possible problematic devices. You should get to around 28-32 if you can't disable HPET in the BIOS.

Obviously lower is better, over 500 can cause stuttering, sub 100 MUCH more desirable.

*BIOS*

1) *BCLK* - You want this to be 100.00 The closer you can get this to 100.00, the better. Disable spread spectrum to try keep it as close as possible.

2) *CAS Latency* - Tighter CAS timings are generally better than high bandwidth for gaming with 1866mhz being the sweet-spot.

3) *Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc* - Disabled. One of the main causes of latency issues outside of bad drivers.

4) *PWM Phase Control* - Set this to maximum. Just like C-states and turbo boost, you do not want any dynamic power management causing latency issues.

6) *DRAM Timing Selectable* (Gigabyte specific) - change this to expert instead of quick and change both channels manually.

7) *VCore* - It is usually best to manually set V core since it seems to disable dynamic power features on some motherboards.

8) *PEG Gen3 Slot Configuration* - Manually set to Gen2 unless you have a PCI-E 3.0 compatible CPU + GPU.

9) *Execute Disable Bit* - Disabled just in case.

10) *1394 controller* - Disabled.

11) *xHCI pre-boot driver / xHCI mode / xHCI hand-off* - Disabled. USB 3.0 implementation has been awful and almost no hardware makes use of it.

12) *eHCI hand-off* - Unneeded for Win7 or higher. Disable.

13) *On-board audio* - Disable unless you actually use it.

14) *On-board video* - Same as above.

16) *High Precision Event Timer* - Disable to potentially lower mouse lag and DPC latency.

17) *Secondary ATA controllers (Marvell, etc)* - Disable to lower DPC latency.

18) *Secondary LAN* - Disable to lower DPC latency

19) *Wake on Lan* - Disable. Anything to do with Intel ME or Intel V-pro is undesirable.

20) *Legacy USB support* - Usually have to leave this enabled in order to get back into the BIOS but it would be better off disabled.

21) *LLC and PLL Overvoltage* - Although overclockers like to utilize them, I've found they do strange things to mouse movement. Generally anything involving ramping up voltage response on the motherboard tends to make it feel like you have less a dead zone on the mouse where it's easier to overshoot with the cursor. I prefer to have both of these options turned off.

*Hardware*

PCI-E sound cards can cause issues.

I used an Audigy 2 ZS PCI soundcard for years with no problems. I "upgraded" to the newest Soundblaster Z PCIE card a few weeks back. Immediately after starting to use the PCIE card I noticed dragging a window around on the desktop had way more chop to it, mouse response also felt off or dulled down, overall everything just sucked. It was the same on both the z77 Gigabyte, and z87 MSI I tested.

I tried using the PCIE card without Creative drivers installed (it still played sound fine without even installing drivers), and with Creative drivers. Using it without driver installed causes less lag, but still horrible compared to the plain Audigy 2 PCI card. I don't know the exact explanation for it, I just know my PCIE sound card is now sitting in the closet.

*Software*

*Windows Updates that cause major cursor issues, I strongly advise that you remove them:*

Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)
Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)
Platform Update for Windows 7 x64-Edition (KB2670838)

Intel Chipset Software - Use Intel Chipset Driver 9.4.0.1027, There was something in the release notes just prior to this driver where they fixed a USB issue, so this is generally the best chipset driver to use.

1) *Intel Management Engine Interface* - Do not install, latency fest related to Vpro.

2) *Lucid MVP* - Do not install: latency fest.

3) *Desktop* - Disable Aero (use basic theme)

4) *Java* - Preferably uninstalled as it has a resident memory footprint.

5) *Mouse software* - Uninstall and use on-board memory settings because 99% of mouse software is coded poorly.

6) *Intel Rapid Storage* - Install the Intel chipset drivers, then go into device manager and find "IDE ATA / ATAPI Controllers" and uninstall the intel driver, tick yes on "delete driver on uninstall".

7) *Intel Network Connections Ethernet Driver* - Uncheck "Proset" and "Advanced teaming and VLAN" when installing. The 19.3 driver has huge problems on Z77, I use 19.1 personally.

8) *Adobe Flash* - Same as Java.

9) *Uninstall Internet Explorer* - Click "programs and features", then on the top left, click "turn windows features on or off" and uncheck for the box for IE, then hit OK and reboot

*Services*

If your mouse doesn't feel snappy at this point, you should try disabling the following Windows services:

1) *Print Spooler* - I always disable this because Microsoft seems to give a lot of priority to what the printer wants.

2) *Human Interface Device Access* - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard, but it also does affect mouse latency. All of my mouse and keyboard functions work fine without it disabled.

3) *Windows Defender* - Go to the start menu, in the search box type "Windows Defender" press enter. Go to Tools/Options, then go to the last tab and uncheck the box labeled "Use this Program".

4) *Windows Search* - Can be removed in windows features if need be.

5) *Defrag* - Type defrag in windows search box, disable scheduled defrag.

6) *Windows Error Reporting* - type "choose how to check for solutions" in windows search box and set it to off.

7) *Windows Update* - Set service to manual instead of automatic and it will not start unless you need it instead of running 24/7

*Nvidia Specific*

*Somewhere between the "miracle driver" and 344.11 drivers, the Nvidia input lag issues seem to have been greatly reduced.*

Your Desktop scaling should be set to "Display - No scaling" in your nvidia driver.

Leaving scaling on anything else incurs a large amount of input lag, even in native resolution. "GPU - No scaling" is also much laggier than the "Display - No Scaling" setting. Any panel with no hardware scaler, forces you to use that laggy mode.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> 2) *CAS Latency* -The ram I have installed can do 2133mhz @ 11-11-11-28, but 1600mhz @ 7-8-7-24 creates a better feeling mouse response and most games get a better frame rate from lower CAS latency rather than higher bandwidth.


Note that it's very easy to make mistakes with this. In your concrete example, it's true that the absolute latency is lower for 1600 MHz, but it's still super close. Other people might not manage to create better settings when going down to 1600 MHz.

About how to calculate that stuff... you compare like this:

11 / 2133 ... and ... 7 / 1600 ... what's less than the other? The side that has the smaller result is the one with less time getting spent on that stuff.

What's happening on the machine in reality is this:

2133 MHz DDR RAM runs at 1066.5 MHz because "double-data-rate". That's 1066.5 million clock ticks per second. Now "CAS 11" for example means, the RAM chips need 11 of those clock ticks to prepare for reading. The other numbers are for stuff other than reading. So in reality, the amount of time that passes is (in seconds):

For the *2133 MHz* RAM kit:

*11* / ((2133 / 2) * 1000000) seconds = *10.3 nanoseconds*

*28* / ((2133/2) * 10^6) seconds = *26 nanoseconds*

For its *1600 MHz* settings:

*7* / ((1600 / 2) * 10^6) seconds = *8.75 nanoseconds*

*8* / ((1600 / 2) * 10^6) seconds = *10 nanoseconds*

*24* / ((1600 / 2) * 10^6) seconds = *30 nanoseconds*

So not everything is necessarily lower latency on the 1600 MHz settings, except for the CAS latency which is the most important latency as it's the one for reading data. What would now be interesting to research is how much the added bandwidth from the RAM chips barfing out their data at 2133 MHz over 1600 MHz means for latency from the point of view of the CPU when it requests a certain amount of data. I wouldn't think it ever asks for single bytes, might instead always requests pretty large blocks to fill its cache, and in that case the 2133 MHz settings might always win over the 1600 MHz settings.


----------



## Vantavia

"Tighter CAS timings are generally better than high bandwidth for gaming with 1866mhz being the sweet-spot." Better? In benchmarks lower CAS tends to equal or better higher bandwidth and r0ach is claiming it's more responsive (citation needed). I'm trying to reduce the amount of faff and waffle in the guide. I might just remove the explanations and batch it up with introductions instead if I can be bothered.


----------



## odin2free

Spoiler: LogLatmon!



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:02:05 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: DARXAS-PC
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: W230ST , Notebook
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700MQ CPU @ 2.40GHz
Logical processors: 8
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 16303 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 2394.0 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 260.0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 220.666627
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 4.041935

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 217.245439
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 1.067545

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 183.868003
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.011433
Driver with highest ISR total time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.012081

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 38659
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 497.197995
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: iusb3xhc.sys - Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller Driver, Intel Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.11640
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.176851

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 270355
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 17
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: firefox.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 393
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 137
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 51321.388471
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.012555
Number of processes hit: 7

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 2.210353
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 183.868003
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 0.121552
CPU 0 ISR count: 38659
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 497.197995
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 1.708294
CPU 0 DPC count: 256568
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.276447
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 205.622389
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0.008034
CPU 1 DPC count: 920
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.314303
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 210.051796
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0.008427
CPU 2 DPC count: 834
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.303328
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 93.082707
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0.007830
CPU 3 DPC count: 1227
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.304119
CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 4 ISR count: 0
CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 195.746032
CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 0.023239
CPU 4 DPC count: 7352
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.142776
CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 5 ISR count: 0
CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 107.989975
CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 0.006126
CPU 5 DPC count: 798
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 6 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.300594
CPU 6 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 6 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 6 ISR count: 0
CPU 6 DPC highest execution time (µs): 75.139515
CPU 6 DPC total execution time (s): 0.006471
CPU 6 DPC count: 813
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 7 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.306610
CPU 7 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 7 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 7 ISR count: 0
CPU 7 DPC highest execution time (µs): 188.599833
CPU 7 DPC total execution time (s): 0.010954
CPU 7 DPC count: 1860
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I'm trying to reduce the amount of faff and waffle in the guide. I might just remove the explanations and batch it up with introductions instead if I can be bothered.


Please just stop. I don't know how they do things in England, but I am not having my work associated with bizarre furry pictures or edited for political correctness or anything like that. I already update my own original post on a constant basis as situations change.

Currently I'm investigating the following Win 7 updates that all affect USB and that Microsoft seems to be removing descriptions for or linking you to the wrong KB articles for what they actually do:

kb2862330
kb2862335
kb2864202
kb2868038
kb2884256
kb2786081


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Note that it's very easy to make mistakes with this. In your concrete example, it's true that the absolute latency is lower for 1600 MHz, but it's still super close. Other people might not manage to create better settings when going down to 1600 MHz.


You forgot to mention things like memory dividers. Multipliers divisible by 100 should theoretically be better than ones divisible by 133 due to the BCLK.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Please just stop. I don't know how they do things in England, but I am not having my work associated with bizarre furry pictures or edited for political correctness or anything like that. I already update my own original post on a constant basis as situations change.
> 
> Currently I'm investigating the following Win 7 updates that all affect USB and that Microsoft seems to be removing descriptions for or linking you to the wrong KB articles for what they actually do:
> 
> kb2862330
> kb2862335
> kb2864202
> kb2868038
> kb2884256
> kb2786081


I already removed what vantavia said for windows updates: Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)
Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)

hes right about deleting those right?


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> I already removed what vantavia said for windows updates: Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)
> Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)
> 
> hes right about deleting those right?


Well I guess he is, and making those information available at the first post would be really useful, like a list of updates people should avoid or uninstall to achieve maximum performance


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Well I guess he is, and making those information available at the first post would be really useful, like a list of updates people should avoid or uninstall to achieve maximum performance


Those updates are already optional updates in the first place. The only way you would have them installed is if you went and looked for them or clicked the check box yes for "treat optional updates the same way as normal updates" button.

Also added the following to original post which I forgot to put in long ago:

*Windows Monitor Settings*

Turning this check box off seems to help with timing issues between certain drivers and monitors. It doesn't seem to do anything unless you actually change the refresh rate after you uncheck the box though. What I do is, uncheck the box, restart windows, go back into the window and then change to a different refresh rate, then back to the refresh rate I want. Due to things like the 59.x hz vs 60hz bug/feature, you will probably have to then reset again to see what the screen is actually going to feel like depending what your screen decides to set itself to on boot. Probably affects refresh rates like 120hz too.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Those updates are already optional updates in the first place. The only way you would have them installed is if you went and looked for them or clicked the check box yes for "treat optional updates the same way as normal updates" button.


The fact that they're optional updates should've been mentioned in the first place. Optional means they're not crucial at all to the operation of the OS, which means they're safe to remove without any drawbacks.

However, I'm patiently waiting for you to test out those other updates you are looking into.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> However, I'm patiently waiting for you to test out those other updates you are looking into.


I'm on a fresh install right now with only Service Pack 1 and no other updates installed to test some of these USB related updates:

kb2862330
kb2862335
kb2864202
kb2868038
kb2884256

It's very hard to do because Microsoft articles on what these updates do either no longer tell you anything about them, or link to the wrong update description entirely. The first one supposedly reinstalls all of your USB drivers for no reason, and for the others, it's a lot harder to figure out.

Unrelated to the USB updates, the first thing I noticed so far comparing Sp1 vs current updates is, I believe the following two services go from manual and not active, to always on:



I really don't like .Net so I'm going to have to look into this now too.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I'm on a fresh install right now with only Service Pack 1 and no other updates installed to test some of these USB related updates:
> 
> kb2862330
> kb2862335
> kb2864202
> kb2868038
> kb2884256
> 
> It's very hard to do because Microsoft articles on what these updates do either no longer tell you anything about them, or link to the wrong update description entirely. The first one supposedly reinstalls all of your USB drivers for no reason, and for the others, it's a lot harder to figure out.
> 
> Unrelated to the USB updates, the first thing I noticed so far comparing Sp1 vs current updates is, I believe the following two services go from manual and not active, to always on:
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't like .Net so I'm going to have to look into this now too.


You're doing gods work, r0ach. I have personally seen the .Net services on a up-to-date Windows 7 installation just like yourself. I have however no idea what their purpose is or if it's possible to turn them off.

But less unneeded services is always better.


----------



## r0ach

Seems to just be a runtime optimization service for .NET. Due to the following quote, having it on manual instead of automatic should cause no negative effects. If the service is always running while still on manual, that doesn't seem like it would make sense though:

"*NGen is intended to make the assembly execute faster by removing the JIT compilation process at runtime, but this does not always improve performance because some optimizations can be done only by a JIT compiler (e.g., if the JIT compiler knows that the code is already running with full trust, it can skip certain expensive security checks). Because of this fact, it makes sense to use NGen only after benchmarking the application performance before and after it*."


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Seems to just be a runtime optimization service for .NET. Due to the following quote, having it on manual instead of automatic should cause no negative effects. If the service is always running while still on manual, that doesn't seem like it would make sense though:
> 
> "*NGen is intended to make the assembly execute faster by removing the JIT compilation process at runtime, but this does not always improve performance because some optimizations can be done only by a JIT compiler (e.g., if the JIT compiler knows that the code is already running with full trust, it can skip certain expensive security checks). Because of this fact, it makes sense to use NGen only after benchmarking the application performance before and after it*."


Good find! I'm wondering however why they didn't implement this into one of the newer versions of .NET if that is/was possible.

Did you notice any difference in response time/latency/input lag after putting it on manual/automatic?


----------



## electro2u

Hello, I've just read your guide through and I wanted to see what you thought about something I've been trying to narrow down that seems very related--
PCIE lane usage and mouse/desktop/gaming responsiveness.

I'm pretty sensitive to motion blur and I've been addicted to 120Hz since I first experienced it. One of the major benefits for me was the improved smoothness it brings to simple tasks like web browsing. I use an overclocked monitor, though--

I switched to AMD R9 29x cards from GTX780s and mouse response/desktop smoothness took a big hit. Scrolling webpages didn't look the same, nor moving windows around the desktop. I could not understand it for the longest time.

At least on my systems that I've been building with these cards:
The 290s, 290x's, and 295x2 I've been using *all* perform poorly in regards to mouse/desktop response while at 8x PCIE.

Recently I "down" graded from a 4790k/z97Hero system to a 4820k/x79 chip and board and was shocked to find my mouse moving "like it should" again. It was totally obvious. It just feels like an extension of my brain instead of a crude pointer. Moving windows around on the desktop looks holographic instead of jittery.

I read the section in the OP guide about soundcards with great interest because I love my soundcard. The soundcard needs to be in the right slot or it will cause my 290x to run at 8x PCIE and thus ruin desktop response.

I'm just curious if it is the monitor overclocking (hard for me to tell at 60Hz, because everything looks clunkier in general) that is causing me to need my cards at 16x PCIE to get good mouse response? I guess I need to figure out how to test my DPC latency. Sorry for long post.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *electro2u*
> 
> Hello, I've just read your guide through and I wanted to see what you thought about something I've been trying to narrow down that seems very related--
> PCIE lane usage and mouse/desktop/gaming responsiveness.
> 
> I'm pretty sensitive to motion blur and I've been addicted to 120Hz since I first experienced it. One of the major benefits for me was the improved smoothness it brings to simple tasks like web browsing. I use an overclocked monitor, though--
> 
> I switched to AMD R9 29x cards from GTX780s and mouse response/desktop smoothness took a big hit. Scrolling webpages didn't look the same, nor moving windows around the desktop. I could not understand it for the longest time.
> 
> At least on my systems that I've been building with these cards:
> The 290s, 290x's, and 295x2 I've been using *all* perform poorly in regards to mouse/desktop response while at 8x PCIE.
> 
> Recently I "down" graded from a 4790k/z97Hero system to a 4820k/x79 chip and board and was shocked to find my mouse moving "like it should" again. It was totally obvious. It just feels like an extension of my brain instead of a crude pointer. Moving windows around on the desktop looks holographic instead of jittery.
> 
> I read the section in the OP guide about soundcards with great interest because I love my soundcard. The soundcard needs to be in the right slot or it will cause my 290x to run at 8x PCIE and thus ruin desktop response.
> 
> I'm just curious if it is the monitor overclocking (hard for me to tell at 60Hz, because everything looks clunkier in general) that is causing me to need my cards at 16x PCIE to get good mouse response? I guess I need to figure out how to test my DPC latency. Sorry for long post.


Running a Haswell board and chipset is the equivalent of running a glorified laptop. Most of them won't even let you turn off HPET now, so it doesn't really surprise me that your mouse felt off on it. I haven't seen a z97 board from Asus or Gigabyte that lets you turn off HPET + USB3 that also has a PCI port, so I'm not even going to get one to try.

As for the sound card issue, that's my personal experience comparing Creative Audigy 2 PCI vs the new Creative Sound Blaster Z PCI-E on multiple motherboards. With no Sound Blaster Z driver installed, it gave me easily noticeable sluggish mouse response compared to the Audigy 2 PCI. After installing the Sound Blaster Z driver, it got even worse. I'm still in the process of determing where the PCI X-Fi fits into the equation, but it was definitely better than the Sound Blaster Z.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Running a Haswell board and chipset is the equivalent of running a glorified laptop. Most of them won't even let you turn off HPET now, so it doesn't really surprise me that your mouse felt off on it. I haven't seen a z97 board from Asus or Gigabyte that lets you turn off HPET + USB3 that also has a PCI port, so I'm not even going to get one to try.


One of the many reasons I went X99 instead of Z97. More control over your board.


----------



## electro2u

I've just tested DPC latency before and after turning HPET and USB3.0 off on my RIVBE... and I'm getting the same results, 1000. Putting my soundcard in a PCIEx16 slot kills my mouse response, putting it in the regular PCIEx1 slot fixes that.


----------



## zalbard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *electro2u*
> 
> I've just tested DPC latency before and after turning HPET and USB3.0 off on my RIVBE... and I'm getting the same results, 1000.


That's because you are using Windows 8 (or newer).


----------



## electro2u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zalbard*
> 
> That's because you are using Windows 8 (or newer).


Very interesting. Perhaps I should revisit W7. I'm wanting to see how it feels to have low DPC. I'm a bit afriad that if I like it I will have one more thing I'm completely OCD about


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *electro2u*
> 
> Putting my soundcard in a PCIEx16 slot kills my mouse response, putting it in the regular PCIEx1 slot fixes that.


I don't understand why you thought it would be a good idea to put a sound card in a PCI-E 16x slot. Try and see if you notice a difference with no sound card vs the card in PCI-E 1x slot. Using a PCI-E sound card on multiple different motherboards killed twitch response for me.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Those updates are already optional updates in the first place. The only way you would have them installed is if you went and looked for them or clicked the check box yes for "treat optional updates the same way as normal updates" button.


Not for me, I never instal optional updates and these were installed for me.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Not for me, I never instal optional updates and these were installed for me.


Regardless, I have a question. Does uninstalled updates leave behind any files or such?


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Please just stop. I don't know how they do things in England, but I am not having my work associated with bizarre furry pictures or edited for political correctness or anything like that. I already update my own original post on a constant basis as situations change.
> 
> Currently I'm investigating the following Win 7 updates that all affect USB and that Microsoft seems to be removing descriptions for or linking you to the wrong KB articles for what they actually do:
> 
> kb2862330
> kb2862335
> kb2864202
> kb2868038
> kb2884256
> kb2786081


By that measure it's only appropriate you'd be represented by a pest that can live without a head. It's also a given that you are presumably American and therefore talk out of the wrong orifice. The Kernel mode updates are "Recommended", not "Optional".


----------



## electro2u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I don't understand why you thought it would be a good idea to put a sound card in a PCI-E 16x slot. Try and see if you notice a difference with no sound card vs the card in PCI-E 1x slot. Using a PCI-E sound card on multiple different motherboards killed twitch response for me.


Well I really didn't expect it to affect the 3rd slot... It's a space issue. Soundcard needs to have a Molex connection, and bottom slot makes that less ugly. I have a 295x2 in the top 16x slot and then I have a 290x. The board instructions said to put the second graphics card in the 3rd of 4 PCIE x16 slots and I thought that made sense. The cards are 2 slots each, too so it leaves me slightly hand tied on where I can put the silly thing. I'll definitely see if it hurts latency putting it back in the 1x slot I have available but it's hard to get to it because of fittings in the way. Right now I just have it disconnected. Onboard sound on this board seems pretty decent and I can always just get a USB DAC for reducing noise floor.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> By that measure it's only appropriate you'd be represented by a pest that can live without a head. It's also a given that you are presumably American and therefore talk out of the wrong orifice. The Kernel mode updates are "Recommended", not "Optional".


If you're going to try and hijack the thread, post ridiculous furry pictures everywhere, then try to force me to rewrite the original post in old English, you could at least post the correct info.

Here's a fresh install of Windows 7 with only SP1 installed and what the Windows update screen looks like with no options changed on it except setting "Never check for updates":



And here's what it looks like when you hit the check for updates button:


----------



## superV

never installed updates and never will.

don't disapprove haswell,4820k has 40 PCI-E lanes,a 4790k has only 16.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> never installed updates and never will.


That's dumb though. You definitely have plenty of security holes.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> That's dumb though. You definitely have plenty of security holes.


never had an issue


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> never had an issue


Never know.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Never know.


well it depends where u live,adblock does great job.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> well it depends where u live,adblock does great job.


Common sense will only take you so far. And why does it depend on where you live? Lol.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Common sense will only take you so far. And why does it depend on where you live? Lol.


well here in italy (friends from uk/germany don't have these problems) if i browse on web without adblock will pop up so many windows on firefox with win an ipad, ur pc has problems fix it RIGHT NOW,and this one is the most horrible,it will not allow me to to browse,if i open firefox it will show me only that page,and if i try to browse it will bring me to the same page.if i go to ebay, pops up stuff like win an iphone or ipad for free,or iphone only for 99 cents,and emoticons and stuff like that.if i try to close those things on x,next time i open my browser i will find lots of bars, my homepage changed and will not let me change like it was.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> well here in italy (friends from uk/germany don't have these problems) if i browse on web without adblock will pop up so many windows on firefox with win an ipad, ur pc has problems fix it RIGHT NOW,and this one is the most horrible,it will not allow me to to browse,if i open firefox it will show me only that page,and if i try to browse it will bring me to the same page.if i go to ebay, pops up stuff like win an iphone or ipad for free,or iphone only for 99 cents,and emoticons and stuff like that.if i try to close those things on x,next time i open my browser i will find lots of bars, my homepage changed and will not let me change like it was.


Makes no sense. Only thing that matters is your configuration. Obviously yours is messed up and theirs isn't.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Makes no sense. Only thing that matters is your configuration. Obviously yours is messed up and theirs isn't.


i think u don't understand me.the configuration doesn't mean nothing,it's not like i'm doing weird stuff on my net to get those problems.
my friend works as a network manager,and he sed that i'm right bout this stuff.








most security issues (as you say) they come from browsing.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> most security issues (as you say) they come from browsing.


Yes, so? Doesn't mean the OS isn't vulnerable. Only way to be 100% safe is to have a fresh install without an internet connection or 3rd party files, and of course not letting anyone stick USB drives into the computer.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Yes, so? Doesn't mean the OS isn't vulnerable. Only way to be 100% safe is to have a fresh install without an internet connection or 3rd party files, and of course not letting anyone stick USB drives into the computer.


yes i do that.fresh install and no updates with my modded win7,and i'm the only who have access to my pc.
so?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> yes i do that.fresh install and no updates with my modded win7,and i'm the only who have access to my pc.
> so?


I swear every reply you type it's like you're high on drugs or something.

You missed the point, you would have to be disconnected from the internet in order to be 100% safe, that is the most important thing. Simply being connected to the internet (I don't mean browsing) makes you exposed / vulnerable.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I swear every reply you type it's like you're high on drugs or something.
> 
> You missed the point, you would have to be disconnected from the internet in order to be 100% safe, that is the most important thing. Simply being connected to the internet (I don't mean browsing) makes you exposed / vulnerable.


i think u missed the point lol









*if you read the posts* u will see that i sed that the updates will not do lots of stuff in terms of security.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> i think u missed the point lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *if you read the posts* u will see that i sed that the updates will not do lots of stuff in terms of security.


What you said was that updates don't matter because most security vulnerabilities come from internet browsing. If you said something else at some point in time I don't know, I can only know what is immediately at hand.

And even then, you're still accepting that they do something. If you know what each individual update does then you're the expert and not your friend.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> What you said was that updates don't matter because most security vulnerabilities come from internet browsing. If you said something else at some point in time I don't know, I can only know what is immediately at hand.
> 
> And even then, you're still accepting that they do something. If you know what each individual update does then you're the expert and not your friend.


oh here we go finally









exactly what i sed.these updates will not fix my problems since i get the problems while browsing.the updates will not fix the web browser to stop those popups.ye the updates fix some issues that maybe i don't have.
and my friend he does that for work,and had lots of cases that he formatted pc's and after couple of days he gets called back because the clients has problems with the pc.and in fact when he goes back see's stupid toolbars,various fake program's installed,and he ask how that happened,and the clients say,nothing just web broswing.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> oh here we go finally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> exactly what i sed.these updates will not fix my problems since i get the problems while browsing.the updates will not fix the web browser to stop those popups.ye the updates fix some issues that maybe i don't have.
> and my friend he does that for work,and had lots of cases that he formatted pc's and after couple of days he gets called back because the clients has problems with the pc.and in fact when he goes back see's stupid toolbars,various fake program's installed,and he ask how that happened,and the clients say,nothing just web broswing.


lol, Windows updates are not related to web browsing, unless they're specific IE updates. And formatting a PC to get rid of problems is the laziest way to 'fix' it, it's literally what 90% of guys who claim they can fix your computer do, for a price ofc. format c: much? Me, I like to *actually* solve the problem, and no I don't charge extra for it either.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> lol, Windows updates are not related to web browsing, unless they're specific IE updates. And formatting a PC to get rid of problems is the laziest way to 'fix' it, it's literally what 90% of guys who claim they can fix your computer do, for a price ofc. format c: much? Me, I like to *actually* solve the problem, and no I don't charge extra for it either.


well i don't know how my friend fixes pc's etc etc.
when i format my pc i usually format when i see some decrease in games (not fps or stuff like that) running slower not killing so fast,and not cuz i have problems with viruses or other things, and to delete things that i'm not using anymore.
and my modded win7 has no drivers at all (lan,printers,or oter stuff) it's just 800mb








so what i do is install firefox then lan drivers from my WD passport,then adblock and then all other drivers,usually chip set and vga.
doing this for years and didn't have a single problem.


----------



## r0ach

Updated original post with new section:

*Windows Components*

To get to these, you go to Control Panel > Programs and Features > "Turn Windows features on or Off"

1) *Windows Gadget Platform* - The first two items in this list give you a noticeable change on desktop mouse response. I'm not sure which one does the most since I disable both at the same time.

2) *Tablet PC Components* - see above description

3) *Uninstall Internet Exploder 8 to 11* - It's not just a browser. Updating anything within IE gets you other Windows updates that you may or may not want like KB2670838. Then if you don't update it, it's just a security risk.

4) *print and document services* - print queing and all that is a bunch of bloat you don't want on a gaming system and you don't want the printer service running 24/7 for no reason either.


----------



## Trull

8.1 folks should read this to have an idea of what features they should disable:

http://www.7tutorials.com/what-are-those-windows-features-you-can-add-or-remove


----------



## amvnz

What's your opinion on the windows process scheduler? Optimize for programs or background services? Background services would be better for keeping input devices responsive wouldn't it and would keep your system in general more responsive in case any program hangs. (kind of like process lasso). Also what about playing games in below normal priority? (I guess this is the same as choosing background services for the scheduler) This would keep your mouse more responsive.


----------



## r0ach

Forget everything else right now, I just discovered the #1 most important thing you will probably read in this thread and I can't believe I didn't figure it out earlier. I had always known the Intel AHCI driver was a complete piece of garbage. It added a huge amount of system latency and didn't even support TRIM, so I always uninstalled it to switch back to the default Microsoft Windows one.

Then comes along Intel Ethernet driver 19.3, which changes my desktop DPC latency from ranging from 2-20 to 6000 as seen in the following picture:



I decided that since Intel doesn't know what the hell they're doing with drivers now, I would look more into their other drivers. I had always installed Intel chipset driver package in the past, but I decided to uninstall the Intel USB driver in the device manager as shown in the following picture while also clicking the check box for "delete driver on uninstall";



This is what it should look like afterwards:



Immediately after doing so, I noticed mouse movement became way more twitchy, resembling much more how it was back in the Windows XP days. The second thing I noticed, when moving the scroll bar up and down on a website, before making this change, I could cause the screen to induce some vsync chop or flicker very easily. Now now matter what I do, it's completely impossible to make the screen have any kind of vsync chop to it no matter how fast I scroll a web page. This tells me the Intel USB driver is most likely also a complete piece of garbage that doesn't work correctly much like many of their other drivers, probably with some crippling timing issues on it as well.

I would say don't install the Intel chipset driver at all now, but there are a few missing devices on the device manager if you don't, such as SMBUS and maybe one or two others. All I know is, you definitely need to uninstall the Intel AHCI driver if it installs, and also their USB driver.

I can't believe Intel, of all people, has such horrible drivers. They really need to fire some people and get new ones.


----------



## amvnz

Hmmm, scrolling webpages (3 scrolls fast) does look pretty horrid on my screen. I'll test this. Just wondering, did you have your USB set to MSI?

Also Windows 8 isn't that bad. Here's my dpc latency after 17 minutes playing Black Ops 2 multiplayer and I haven't done a lot of the controversial stuff (removing flash, java, .net, intel rst and mei, hpet is still on, c6/7 is on) :


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I would say don't install the Intel chipset driver at all now, but there are a few missing devices on the device manager if you don't, such as SMBUS and maybe one or two others. All I know is, you definitely need to uninstall the Intel AHCI driver if it installs, and also their USB driver.
> 
> I can't believe Intel, of all people, has such horrible drivers. They really need to fire some people and get new ones.


What are the downsides of not installing the Intel Chipset drivers at all? Will some of my ports not work correctly? Will I not get proper USB 3.0 support in Windows 7? How about the regular USB 3.0 drivers? Do they cause any latency/input lag/interference?


----------



## amvnz

I thought the chipset just gave proper names for your hardware and they weren't actual drivers. It's just an inf.

Anyway, scrolling webpages is smoother. Less slowdowns / hiccups. Was doing it every 3rd rapid scroll, now it does it after I have scrolled up and down the entire page like 4 times.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Forget everything else right now, I just discovered the #1 most important thing you will probably read in this thread and I can't believe I didn't figure it out earlier. I had always known the Intel AHCI driver was a complete piece of garbage. It added a huge amount of system latency and didn't even support TRIM, so I always uninstalled it to switch back to the default Microsoft Windows one.
> 
> Then comes along Intel Ethernet driver 19.3, which changes my desktop DPC latency from ranging from 2-20 to 6000 as seen in the following picture:
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that since Intel doesn't know what the hell they're doing with drivers now, I would look more into their other drivers. I had always installed Intel chipset driver package in the past, but I decided to uninstall the Intel USB driver in the device manager as shown in the following picture while also clicking the check box for "delete driver on uninstall";
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it should look like afterwards:
> 
> 
> 
> Immediately after doing so, I noticed mouse movement became way more twitchy, resembling much more how it was back in the Windows XP days. The second thing I noticed, when moving the scroll bar up and down on a website, before making this change, I could cause the screen to induce some vsync chop or flicker very easily. Now now matter what I do, it's completely impossible to make the screen have any kind of vsync chop to it no matter how fast I scroll a web page. This tells me the Intel USB driver is most likely also a complete piece of garbage that doesn't work correctly much like many of their other drivers, probably with some crippling timing issues on it as well.
> 
> I would say don't install the Intel chipset driver at all now, but there are a few missing devices on the device manager if you don't, such as SMBUS and maybe one or two others. All I know is, you definitely need to uninstall the Intel AHCI driver if it installs, and also their USB driver.
> 
> I can't believe Intel, of all people, has such horrible drivers. They really need to fire some people and get new ones.


just uninstalled the usb drivers and my keyboard and mouse stopped working so i unplugged my computer and turned it back on. then it took like 5 minutes of the usb updater thing turning my mouse keyboard and headset off and on. is that what happened to u?


----------



## amvnz

Just need to click update driver, let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer, then install the standard one.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> I thought the chipset just gave proper names for your hardware and they weren't actual drivers. It's just an inf.
> .


No, for some devices that's what it does, but it does install an actual Intel USB driver signed by Intel. Going off memory alone before I uninstalled it, the last 4 digits of the driver were either 1029 or 1030, I forget.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> No, for some devices that's what it does, but it does install an actual Intel USB driver signed by Intel. Going off memory alone before I uninstalled it, the last 4 digits of the driver were either 1029 or 1030, I forget.


Well... Assuming I can continue to use my computer without any significant drawbacks caused by uninstalling the chipset driver/inf, I don't see why you wouldn't want to do this if it truly does increase responsiveness and whatnot.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## HiTechPixel

Wait, does TRIM not work if you don't install a driver on Windows 7? What?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Kommz13

Intel achi drivers always had better performance than generic windows driver, proven with hard numbers...


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## amvnz

The intel ahci driver supports MSI mode whereas the standard ahci driver does not. So if you got an IRQ conflict it will be better to use the intel one so you can switch from line-based to msi.

My mouse and dpc latency is the same with the standard microsoft drivers and the intel drivers for ahci and usb, as well as usb 3.0 turned on. The usb 3 thing probably affects cheaper motherboards. The ram speed vs timings thing seems bogus. A lot of the other things may have the slightest difference on the desktop but not in games. Maybe your mouse feels different because of crap on your mouse feet or something lol.

Anyway for gaming, in order from least input lag and least clarity to most input lag and most clarity, you want 1) vsync off and fps unlimited or engine limited at 200 minimum), 2) vsync off and external limiter at anything above refresh rate, higher fps = less input lag, 3) adaptive/dynamic vsync with no fps limiter, 4) vsync on and engine limiter at 2 fps below refresh rate, 5) vsync on and external limiter 1 above refresh rate. External fps limiters should not be used for capping below refresh rate with vsync on, that only works with engine limiters to remove input lag because external limiters also add input lag.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Now I just need to know if I should install USB 3.0 drivers or not.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> What are you on about? I've been using Intel's AHCI drivers since my first SSD


My first SSD was the OCZ Agility generation 1. The OCZ people knew more than pretty much anyone about SSDs and TRIM at the time, and they said do not use the intel AHCI driver because it didn't support trim properly and to use only the Microsoft AHCI driver or the Intel Rapid Storage AHCI driver. This was many years ago, so things might have changed since then.

In case you didn't notice, the Intel AHCI driver does NOT exist anymore. My original post in this thread talks about how it was removed in the new Intel Chipset driver version 10+ and doesn't install at all now. Your only option now is to use the Microsoft one, or Rapid Storage driver.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I'm not going to pretend I know for 100% certain that it doesn't install actual drivers, but contrary to what roach appears to be saying, the notes for INF specifically says:
> 
> "*The Intel Chipset Device Software does not install drivers for* AGP or *USB*"


Of course it installs a USB driver. The driver is signed by Intel and the number was something like 9.2.0.1029 or 9.3.0.1029. I forgot exactly what number it was for Z77. Just install the Intel chipset driver, go into device manager, then click one of the following items to see yourself:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kommz13*
> 
> Intel achi drivers always had better performance than generic windows driver, proven with hard numbers...


As I said before, the intel AHCI driver no longer exists for a reason. There is only RST and Microsoft AHCI now.

The original Intel AHCI driver caused huge input lag on your system. The RST driver was much better in this regard, but still not as good as the default Microsoft one in terms of input lag. Then I noticed the exact same thing with Intel vs Microsoft USB drivers. Intel is just crap at making drivers. Look at their GPU drivers for god's sake. All of their drivers are bad.


----------



## CookieBook

@r0ach How about the Intel USB 3.0 drivers?


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> @r0ach How about the Intel USB 3.0 drivers?


Curious about that as well.

Pretty much the only thing I have installed on my computer now is USB 3.0, Nvidia driver and LAN.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## CookieBook

Seems like my Killer NIC is good for something after all...


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Seems like my Killer NIC is good for something after all...


Not really. I've heard of people having a lot of problems with Killer NIC, even with no drivers installed. Intel is superior.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Not really. I've heard of people having a lot of problems with Killer NIC, even with no drivers installed. Intel is superior.


Never had any problems. Plus I can torrent half the world and still pay games with reasonable ping increase, altough the torrent does take a hit in speed.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Never had any problems. Plus I can torrent half the world and still pay games with reasonable ping increase, altough the torrent does take a hit in speed.


Cool, but that doesn't mean it's a good NIC. A simple Google search will net you a ton of results which say the same thing I earlier did, that the Killer NIC sucks. Also, the argument "it works for me thus it's flawless" doesn't work in the real world.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Cool, but that doesn't mean it's a good NIC. A simple Google search will net you a ton of results which say the same thing I earlier did, that the Killer NIC sucks. Also, the argument "it works for me thus it's flawless" doesn't work in the real world.


I have noticed no differences from an Intel NIC to the Killer NIC. DPC latency gives me ~30.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I have noticed no differences from an Intel NIC to the Killer NIC. DPC latency gives me ~30.


Again, cool story. But no matter if you have or don't have problems with it doesn't change the big picture, which is that many people using Killer NICs have issues with it.

So don't reply to me again saying you don't have any problems with it.


----------



## sugarhell

My latency spikes all the time to 6000 and i cant find the reason. I only use intel ethernet drivers with a fresh win7.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Again, cool story. But no matter if you have or don't have problems with it doesn't change the big picture, which is that many people using Killer NICs have issues with it.
> 
> So don't reply to me again saying you don't have any problems with it.


From what I heard updating fixed about 90% of the issues. I used to have some wierd problems aswell, but the latest driver fixed it.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> My latency spikes all the time to 6000 and i cant find the reason. I only use intel ethernet drivers with a fresh win7.


Did you read what r0ach posted? the intel drivers causes the DPC spikes.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> My latency spikes all the time to 6000 and i cant find the reason. I only use intel ethernet drivers with a fresh win7.


Do what R0ach said and install a good version of the Ethernet Drivers. 19.1 is seemingly fine. 19.3 is bad.


----------



## sugarhell

Oh god and i believed that their igpu drivers are trash...

Yeah just disabled my ethernet adapter and i get normal latency.

Downloading 19.1 atm


----------



## superV

killer nic is not good for gaming despite the latency.had it on 2 boards and even now i have 1 killer and 1 intel integrated,and still i bought a pci-e nic.
with killer nic lots of shots fired wil not hit the target but is good when downloading and playing at same time.
bought it and does make difference in terms of killing not speeds in my case.
also this is a good video:


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> killer nic is not good for gaming despite the latency.had it on 2 boards and even now i have 1 killer and 1 intel integrated,and still i bought a pci-e nic.
> with killer nic lots of shots fired wil not hit the target but is good when downloading and playing at same time.
> bought it and does make difference in terms of killing not speeds in my case.


Which PCI-E NIC would you reccomend?


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Which PCI-E NIC would you reccomend?


same which is shown in that video.
Intel EXPI9301CTBLK Desktop Adapter paid it 30 euros and i think is the piece of hardware that did the biggest difference in online gaming for me, looking that i passed form a gtx 770 to a 780 ti hydro copper and paid it 853 euros








i was desperate and trying all kind of stuff just to improve on BF4 cuz i'm in a deep situation stupid copper adsl 10down/1up but not working like should, i mean together, up/down simultaneously.when somebody shoots me i can't respond to the fire very well.if somebody shoots me in most cases i'm done.with the nick didn't change a lot that situation but at least when seeing somebody i kill faster.
here another video:


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> @r0ach How about the Intel USB 3.0 drivers?


Don't install them and everything that says XHCI should be disabled in the BIOS too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Seems like my Killer NIC is good for something after all...


I don't have any experience with Killer NIC. All I know is that most people resolve most of their problems with them by installing the Atheros drivers instead of the Killer NIC ones.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Don't install them and everything that says XHCI should be disabled in the BIOS too.


Does not installing USB 3 drivers impact transfer speed on USB 3 ports?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Does not installing USB 3 drivers impact transfer speed on USB 3 ports?


Most likely the ports will function at USB 2 speed, but who the heck uses USB3 hard drives on a gaming machine???

I also added a link to the main post on the real world tests Anandtech did on input lag:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803

They reached all the way up to 140ms depending what game they tested. So the next time someone claims any of this is "placebo and impossible to detect nanoseconds" just link them to that.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Most likely the ports will function at USB 2 speed, but who the heck uses USB3 hard drives on a gaming machine???
> 
> I also added a link to the main post on the real world tests Anandtech did on input lag:
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803
> 
> They reached all the way up to 140ms depending what game they tested. So the next time someone claims any of this is "placebo and impossible to detect nanoseconds" just link them to that.


I have an USB 3 flash drive that I occasionally use but other than that, there's nothing that springs to mind. I pretty much only have a keyboard and mouse connected at all times. Plus Ethernet cable.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> same which is shown in that video.
> Intel EXPI9301CTBLK Desktop Adapter paid it 30 euros and i think is the piece of hardware that did the biggest difference in online gaming for me, looking that i passed form a gtx 770 to a 780 ti hydro copper and paid it 853 euros


I can get one for €20 with free shipping. That's 5% of what I wasted on mice and mousepads. I still don't really understand how an external NIC will help your gaming experience, but I'll buy one no matter what since it's so cheap.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Anyway, +1 for the PRO/1000 CT PCI-E NIC recommended on the other page. That's an excellent unit, two of which i have in my other systems. The only thing to keep in mind is that it is based on the 82574L chip from 2008, so it will never receive PROSET drivers for newer operating systems like Windows 8.1 and 10 (meaning you miss out on certain advanced features the CT with those operating systems). For full support in modern operating systems you'd probably want to look at getting an i350 based NIC, but the CT will still run fine with standard drivers.


There seem to be 2 versions of that NIC: the EXPI9301CT and the EXPI9301CTBLK. What is the difference between those 2?


----------



## n1xxon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Anyway, +1 for the PRO/1000 CT PCI-E NIC recommended on the other page. That's an excellent unit, two of which i have in my other systems. The only thing to keep in mind is that it is based on the 82574L chip from 2008, so it will never receive PROSET drivers for newer operating systems like Windows 8.1 and 10 (meaning you miss out on certain advanced features the CT with those operating systems). For full support in modern operating systems you'd probably want to look at getting an i350 based NIC, but the CT will still run fine with standard drivers.


What features do you miss out on with the newer OS's and that NIC? Does it still work on Windows 10?

Also can you suggest an i350 equivalent of the previous PCI-E NIC mentioned on here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> There seem to be 2 versions of that NIC: the EXPI9301CT and the EXPI9301CTBLK. What is the difference between those 2?


The second video posted by superV on the previous page mentions the difference, BLK = Bulk, it's missing documentation and driver CD so it's cheaper.


----------



## amvnz

The only useful thing with the killer e2200 is the software but you can just get alternatives that work with any NIC and less buggy. It would be better to just use QoS at router level though. So if you have both a killer e2200 and an intel NIC on your motherboard then I recommend to use the intel and disable the killer. Killer e2200 is only 100mbit unless set to auto negotiation but even then it doesn't seem to be working at 1gbps.

Anyway we all know input lag exists but the majority of the "tweaks" are very controversial. You set a lot of things off for no reason other than "just coz". A lot of things are also not fix one, fix all. Not all intel drivers are bad. Not all mouse software is bad. Not all usb 3 motherboard configurations are bad. Etc, etc. I'm sure if someone reverted half the changes you made, besides the turbo/c-states/hpet then you wouldn't even know. You need a high speed camera to test each setting individually. After trying most of this, my dpc latency is exactly the same. The only thing I couldn't do was HPET. In the end, I re-enabled C6/7 state because it didn't affect my system in a negative way and the power saving is great. Mouse feel hasn't changed, well I wouldn't know unless I could turn everything on and off instantly and test that way. The biggest change in mouse feeling can also be affected by the mouse feet. So going by feel alone can be quite misleading. Applying the absolute thinnest film you can of mouse lube/coconut oil or simple lotion to the mouse feet then wiping off fills in the scratches and makes them feel like new again. That would make a far bigger impact on mouse feel.

Also I think you need to add a gaming section because if most of this stuff works, then all of this will just go out the window if people don't understand the importance of input lag and how actions fit into timeslices, how frame rate is the number one factor in input lag and how external fps limiters and different vsync methods affect input lag as well.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## CookieBook

€25 for the 9301 vs €65 for the I210-T1. Im not paying another 40 euros for support in an OS that i'm most likely not going to use.


----------



## n1xxon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Yes, that's correct about the EXPI9301CT and the EXPI9301CTBLK - they are exactly the same card, so get whichever is cheaper.
> From memory it was things like teaming (obviously not an issue if we're talking about single port/single NICs) and virtual LAN features.
> 
> I can't say anything definite about Windows 10, because Intel haven't updated their documentation to mention it yet. Personally, I think it's highly unlikely that the current generation of i350/i210 NIC wouldn't be given full support. 8.1 and 10 are so similar that it wouldn't make any sense.
> The I210-T1 is probably the closest equivalent with 'full support' in 8.1.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it though. The CT is still a great NIC and few people would miss those relatively obscure features. There's also an upside to the CT, and that's the fact that it's supported by default in a lot of environments. For example, I use Macrium Reflect for creating/restoring system images. The bootable Macrium rescue disk (Windows PE 3.1 based) can use the CT NIC by default, but you have to load specific drivers for the i350 or it won't be recognized. So the older CT NIC could be more convenient in situations like that.


Thank you.

After watching the videos posted on here regarding that card I couldn't help but wonder would there be any possible performance gain using that I9301CT card over an onboard Intel I217V?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Trull

Can anyone upload the 19.1 driver¿? Cause the 19.1 driver on Intel's page links to the 19.3.141 driver.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Can anyone upload the 19.1 driver¿? Cause the 19.1 driver on Intel's page links to the 19.3.141 driver.


http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/NETWORK-CARD/INTEL/Intel-Network-Adapter-Driver-191-for-Windows-7.shtml


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/NETWORK-CARD/INTEL/Intel-Network-Adapter-Driver-191-for-Windows-7.shtml


?

That's literally a page that links to the Intel link, not to mention that it's the 32-bit version (yes, I know they have another one for the 64-bit version, but it's the same crap).


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> ?
> 
> That's literally a page that links to the Intel link.


Is that the 19.3 aswell?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Trull

Thanks, Oubadah. I can't find them on that page you mentioned, though.

+rep


----------



## n1xxon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Nothing tangible, and if anything the I217V would probably perform better.


Oh okay, wasn't sure because I can't find a comparison of the PCI-E Intel NIC card vs onboard Intel NIC, thought maybe there was something I didn't know about them.


----------



## r0ach

I would not use a PCI-E add-on ethernet card due to the issue I talked about with the negatives of using a PCI-E vs PCI sound card in the original post of this thread.

Using the GPU and additional PCI-E card both in MSI mode might fix this problem, but I don't remember if I tested with all PCI-E devices forced to MSI. I think Linux kernels tend to force everything to MSI, but Windows doesn't.

*Windows: Line-Based vs. Message Signaled-Based Interrupts*

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044

The 570GTX I own defaults to line based interrupt mode, while the r9 290s I've owned default to MSI. I get a 970gtx in the mail today, so I'll see what that defaults to.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I would not use a PCI-E add-on ethernet card due to the issue I talked about with the negatives of using a PCI-E vs PCI sound card in the original post of this thread.
> 
> Using the GPU and additional PCI-E card both in MSI mode might fix this problem, but I don't remember if I tested with all PCI-E devices forced to MSI. I think Linux kernels tend to force everything to MSI, but Windows doesn't.
> 
> *Windows: Line-Based vs. Message Signaled-Based Interrupts*
> 
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044
> 
> The 570GTX I own defaults to line based interrupt mode, while the r9 290s I've owned default to MSI. I get a 970gtx in the mail today, so I'll see what that defaults to.


TL;DR?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> TL;DR?


Well... that won't make you happy with regards of "too long", but there's this:

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/msg-signaled-interrupts-paper.pdf

You could start on page 6 for an overview of what's happening on the machine. Those "scheduled tasklets" that are mentioned are similar to the "deferred procedure calls (DPC)" on Windows.

On page 8 is starts about what's going on with old-school interrupts vs. MSI.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Well... that won't make you happy with regards of "too long", but there's this:
> 
> http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/msg-signaled-interrupts-paper.pdf
> 
> You could start on page 6 for an overview of what's happening on the machine. Those "scheduled tasklets" that are mentioned are similar to the "deferred procedure calls (DPC)" on Windows.
> 
> On page 8 is starts about what's going on with old-school interrupts vs. MSI.


I'm not that smart, I should have asked for a ELI5


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I'm not that smart, I should have asked for a ELI5


I just now tried really hard to write some ELI5 stuff about what interrupts are and whatnot, but I give up trying to do it right. It's too hard.









Anyway, an "interrupt" is when a device asks for something from the CPU. The CPU then drops everything it's currently doing and jumps to program code that's intended to deal with the device that asked for help.

That "MSI" and "MSI-X" stuff is the newest method about how to deal with those interrupts in practice. Everything about it is (according to Intel) happening faster than with the old method. From the point of view of the device, it gets serviced in a shorter amount of time, so can go back to doing its own thing faster. From the point of view of the CPU, the program code that needs to be executed is just plain shorter, so it can go back to what it was originally doing faster.

That MSI stuff is by default disabled in Windows. Some drivers enable the use of MSI by themselves, but for a lot of them you have to do it manually if you want to have the device use it. There was some discussion and a link to text describing how to do it a whole bunch of pages back in this thread. I don't know on what page. It's done by doing stuff to the Registry.

On my Windows, enabling it for the Microsoft AHCI SATA driver causes Windows to freeze at boot, but it works for all other devices without issue. The two or three devices that don't want to do MSI simply ignore the setting.


----------



## amvnz

For the SATA device to use MSI, you need to install Intel RST. No, it doesn't affect your mouse movement LOL. Just be sure to restore the Last Known Good Configuration option and classic F8 menu if you are on WIndows 8.1 just in case the OS can't boot.

It's recommended to not put audio devices in MSI mode. Probably doesn't matter for GPU HDMI audio but I just left them in line-based because they are disabled on my system.

Here's what I got on MSI mode (negative numbers).


----------



## deepor

Here's how things looked like originally for me (a whole bunch of stuff was sharing interrupts):



Here's after trying to switch every single thing over to MSI:



Here's Linux, same PC:


Spoiler: contents of /proc/interrupts



Code:



Code:


           CPU0       CPU1       CPU2       CPU3       
  0:         23          0          0          0   IO-APIC-edge      timer
  1:      49508       3067        656        184   IO-APIC-edge      i8042
  8:          1          0          0          0   IO-APIC-edge      rtc0
  9:          0          0          0          0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   acpi
 16:    1740503     261527      38170      12545   IO-APIC-fasteoi   ehci_hcd:usb1
 23:         34          2          0          1   IO-APIC-fasteoi   ehci_hcd:usb2
 41:          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI-edge      xhci_hcd
 42:     267870      50313      18771       8066   PCI-MSI-edge      ahci
 43:         70          2          0          0   PCI-MSI-edge      xhci_hcd
 44:         13          1          1          0   PCI-MSI-edge      mei_me
 45:        395        156          9         68   PCI-MSI-edge      snd_hda_intel
 46:        281        154         47         12   PCI-MSI-edge      snd_hda_intel
 47:    6512621     880276     250459      85019   PCI-MSI-edge      enp6s0
 48:     390413      58183      14999       4541   PCI-MSI-edge      nvidia
NMI:        590        542        271        191   Non-maskable interrupts
LOC:   10417335    9754346    4458724    2186293   Local timer interrupts
SPU:          0          0          0          0   Spurious interrupts
PMI:        590        542        271        191   Performance monitoring interrupts
IWI:          1          0          2          2   IRQ work interrupts
RTR:          0          0          0          0   APIC ICR read retries
RES:   27910694   28960683   12937733    6753849   Rescheduling interrupts
CAL:       1565       1423       1500       1695   Function call interrupts
TLB:     208348     224997     179266     134005   TLB shootdowns
TRM:          0          0          0          0   Thermal event interrupts
THR:          0          0          0          0   Threshold APIC interrupts
MCE:          0          0          0          0   Machine check exceptions
MCP:        124        124        124        124   Machine check polls
THR:          0          0          0          0   Hypervisor callback interrupts
ERR:          0
MIS:          0


----------



## n1xxon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> It's recommended to not put audio devices in MSI mode.


Can you please explain why?


----------



## r0ach

So I just got the new Gigabyte 970 GTX OC (2nd revision, not G1) today, replacing 570 GTX reference, and wow my system feels way different. Even though I'm running the same drivers, desktop movement is far different than before. I think it's because Fermi cards downclocked core and memory way too low at idle state and Maxwell uses much higher idle values:



If you moved the cursor with Fermi at idle power state and PCIE mode 1 vs highest power state (p3? p4?) and PCIE mode 3.0, there was a huge difference in how the cursor moved. Doing the same thing with Maxwell, you still notice a difference, but it's much less than before. I was really worried that the "Gigabyte Flex Technology", which is their custom implementation of having a crap ton of display outputs would cause some major problem, but it's pretty much flawless. There's no lag or buffering or anything like that due to it. I'm on the 2nd revision Gigabyte 970 though, I did hear about people on the Gigabyte 970 G1 first gen with backplate having problems with ports flat out not working at all.

The 970 card uses line based interrupt mode by default, not MSI. If I forced my Fermi card from line based to MSI mode, there was a small difference in cursor movement, but nothing that huge. Generally it felt worse in MSI mode though. When I do the same thing with the 970 card, there's not a small difference, it's a large difference, and it makes cursor movement much worse. There must be some reason Nvidia doesn't use MSI mode.

The reason I was testing MSI mode in the first place is I was going to see if using the 970 in MSI mode along with a PCI-E sound card in MSI mode would fix the PCI-E sound card's latency problems. For some reason, the problem is much less pronounced with the Maxwell GPU than Fermi and you can actually run a PCI-E sound card with this GPU.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The reason I was testing MSI mode in the first place is I was going to see if using the 970 in MSI mode along with a PCI-E sound card in MSI mode would fix the PCI-E sound card's latency problems. For some reason, the problem is much less pronounced with the Maxwell GPU than Fermi and you can actually run a PCI-E sound card with this GPU.


Could this mean I could use a PCI-E NIC with my GTX 780 without adding too much latency?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Could this mean I could use a PCI-E NIC with my GTX 780 without adding too much latency?


I don't have any experience with Kepler cards. All I know is that the Fermi reference card I owned created a lot more system lag when paired with a PCI-E sound card instead of PCI. If I remove the PCI-E sound card completely from the system with the 970 GTX, you can still notice a good bit of difference in latency, but it's much less pronounced than with the Fermi GPU for some reason.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I don't have any experience with Kepler cards. All I know is that the Fermi reference card I owned created a lot more system lag when paired with a PCI-E sound card instead of PCI. If I remove the PCI-E sound card completely from the system with the 970 GTX, you can still notice a good bit of difference in latency, but it's much less pronounced than with the Fermi GPU for some reason.


Are there any decent PCI NICs?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Are there any decent PCI NICs?


You wouldn't want one. It's only $100 for a motherboard with Intel integrated NIC anyway. For Z77, the UD5H is probably the best. For Z97, it seems like ASUS and Gigabyte don't even let you disable HPET now, so that lineup is screwed. The MSI Z97 SLI for $128 has an Intel NIC + let's you disable HPET in the BIOS. Usually those Asus ROG Maximus whatever boards will let you disable HPET, so look for the z97 version of that too.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> You wouldn't want one. It's only $100 for a motherboard with Intel integrated NIC anyway. For Z77, the UD5H is probably the best. For Z97, it seems like ASUS and Gigabyte don't even let you disable HPET now, so that lineup is screwed. The MSI Z97 SLI for $128 has an Intel NIC + let's you disable HPET in the BIOS. Usually those Asus ROG Maximus whatever boards will let you disable HPET, so look for the z97 version of that too.


I have a MSI Z87 G-45 gaming because it has a dragon 

I guess I'll just stick with the Killer e2200, never had any real problems with it to be honest.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I have a MSI Z87 G-45 gaming because it has a dragon
> 
> I guess I'll just stick with the Killer e2200, never had any real problems with it to be honest.


Yea, you would be much better off just buying that MSI z97 SLI board to get virtually the same motherboard except with Intel integrated NIC instead of buying an add on card for that:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130775

If you keep the G45, just download the regular Atheros drivers for the ethernet card instead of using Killer NIC ones.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Yea, you would be much better off just buying that MSI z97 SLI board to get virtually the same motherboard except with Intel integrated NIC instead of buying an add on card for that:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130775
> 
> If you keep the G45, just download the regular Atheros drivers for the ethernet card instead of using Killer NIC ones.




Now how much red is there on that board? and wheres me dragons?

I'll just DL the Atheros drivers, altough I still don't know whats wrong with killer. It never gave me any ping spikes or speed drops. How can I check if it hogs my CPU?


----------



## r0ach

Not sure why I never tried this before, but this helped improve the problem of high PCIE sound card latency for me. Disabling on-board HDMI audio on the Geforce. The other audio device in the list is Sound Blaster Z using default Windows driver:



Having multiple audio devices operating over the same PCIE bus, or even same PC in general, seems like a really stupid design decision. I've never tested installing the Nvidia HDMI audio driver before. I wonder if it improves the situation or makes it worse. I'm going to guess...worse. Not really any point testing it when you can just disable the device though.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Not sure why I never tried this before, but this helped improve the problem of high PCIE sound card latency for me. Disabling on-board HDMI audio on the Geforce. The other audio device in the list is Sound Blaster Z using default Windows driver:
> 
> 
> 
> Having multiple audio devices operating over the same PCIE bus, or even same PC in general, seems like a really stupid design decision. I've never tested installing the Nvidia HDMI audio driver before. I wonder if it improves the situation or makes it worse. I'm going to guess...worse. Not really any point testing it when you can just disable the device though.


disabling the hpet from device manager will decrease input latency or it will do nothing since can't be disabled from bios?


noticed that disabling it, makes web pages scrolling down and up, laggy sort of frame lag,not good for my eyes.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> disabling the hpet from device manager will decrease input latency or it will do nothing since can't be disabled from bios?


There's no point disabling HPET in device manager if you can't in BIOS. Windows supposedly uses TSC and HPET for different things and if Windows detected that you have it enabled, it was probably using that timer for something and will not react well to disabling it in device manager. It has to be disabled before you boot into Windows in other words. But you're not gaining anything if it's still on in BIOS anyway.


----------



## Trull

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that disabling HPET in Windows has a noticeable negative impact if you have it enabled on the BIOS, so it's better to just let it be.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> For Z97, it seems like ASUS and Gigabyte don't even let you disable HPET now, so that lineup is screwed.


Can't disable it on my Z87 Gigabyte mobo either but I can on my Gigabyte X58. It seems like these companies flip a coin to decide if they want to provide the option in their bios each time a new chipset is released. I have requested the option many times but they clearly don't give a crap.

Does anyone know of a mobo maker that consistently provides this toggle?


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> PCI doesn't even have enough bandwidth to handle 1Gbps Full Duplex connection. I wouldn't recommend a PCI NIC.


Well I would be ok with a 100mbit limit.


----------



## Berserker1

Ok, I had some weird input lag problems with 560ti, some things from here worked, but some were total placebo even then. As soon as I installed gtx 760, I noticed much less input lag, hpet, c-states, nvidia scaling - have no negative effect and I aim much better now.
Those input lag test on Blur Busters and ESR are 100% true. They are based on real testing, not some magical "feel".

In my objective, not subjective opinion - R0ach is mental.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> In my objective, not subjective opinion - R0ach is mental.


Opinions are *always* subjective.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Does anyone know of a mobo maker that consistently provides this toggle? (HPET)


MSI generally always has it, but they don't seem to let you disable USB3 in BIOS. I guess you can just not install the Intel USB3 driver and hope for the best. Of all the Z97 boards out, I would probably get the MSI z97 SLI because it's one of the few if any boards that lets you disable HPET and has an Intel NIC:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130775
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Those input lag test on Blur Busters and ESR are 100% true. They are based on real testing, not some magical "feel".


The Anandtech one linked around the first paragraph of the original post is probably the best. The ESR ones are crap.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Berserker1*
> 
> Ok, I had some weird input lag problems with 560ti, some things from here worked, but some were total placebo even then. As soon as I installed gtx 760, I noticed much less input lag, hpet, c-states, nvidia scaling - have no negative effect and I aim much better now.


If you did a full format, it's probably because the new Intel Chipset driver 10+ changed a lot of things from 9.x and below. The chipset driver 9.x installs the Intel AHCI driver + a 9.3.0.1029 USB driver on my Z77 board that really sucks and is worse than the default Windows one. The 10+ chipset driver installs no actual drivers, which is why it doesn't require a reboot. If you haven't formatted your system in a long time and didn't use the 10+ chipset driver, I would probably do it.


----------



## Trull

I never installed the Intel Chipset Sofware thingy and I don't think it had any negative impact on my system... am I wrong in saying that?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I never installed the Intel Chipset Sofware thingy and I don't think it had any negative impact on my system... am I wrong in saying that?


If you have an older chipset where Windows already recognizes all the devices, then no. If you have a newer chipset and are using Windows 7, SMBUS might not function correctly.

Just removed lots of outdated stuff from main post and added new stuff like this:

*Windows 7 Updates*

There are 5 recent Windows 7 updates affecting USB that you might want to avoid. I'm not sure if any of them have negative affects on your system, but 1 of them only reloads all USB 2 drivers, and the other 4 I believe are mostly related to USB security of someone having physical access to your machine. Unless you have Russian hackers physically walking around your living room, it probably isn't needed.

kb2862330 - reinstalls all usb2 drivers seemingly for no reason. This used to be an optional update but was pushed to mandatory in 2014
kb2862335 - usb security
kb2864202 - usb security
kb2868038 - usb security
kb2884256 - usb security
kb2786081 - unrelated to usb. An internet exploder 10 update that pops up even if you don't have internet exploder installed


----------



## Trull

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

BTW, what were your reasons for sticking with Windows 7 over 8.1 again?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> OK, thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> BTW, what were your reasons for sticking with Windows 7 over 8.1 again?


Besides metro and all that:

1) Vsync is forced on at desktop and in borderless window mode. I dislike vsync even while browsing the internet.

2) If you calibrate your LCD screen, the color profile is dropped by windows if you go to full screen mode. You're forced to use borderless window mode if you want accurate colors unless you use a directx wrapper which adds a ton of lag.

Considering 99% of monitors look like crap without being calibrated, I consider this a critical design flaw of the operating system. I haven't really tried optimizing Win8 for mouse movement before, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was worse than Win 7 no matter what you do to it from having too much tablet crap built in. The future will probably be SteamOS or something if Microsoft keeps going this route.


----------



## Bloodcore

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Besides metro and all that:
> 
> 1) Vsync is forced on at desktop and in borderless window mode. I dislike vsync even while browsing the internet.
> 
> 2) If you calibrate your LCD screen, the color profile is dropped by windows if you go to full screen mode. You're forced to use borderless window mode if you want accurate colors unless you use a directx wrapper which adds a ton of lag.
> 
> Considering 99% of monitors look like crap without being calibrated, I consider this a critical design flaw of the operating system. I haven't really tried optimizing Win8 for mouse movement before, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was worse than Win 7 no matter what you do to it from having too much tablet crap built in. The future will probably be SteamOS or something if Microsoft keeps going this route.


I posted a feedback regarding these issues on the Windows Technical Preview forum just now.
I doubt they'll actually do anything regarding the issue, though maybe they'll atleast give us an explanation why they can't.

I'm sure you could have written this way better than I just did.
But, anyone with more experience with these issues can feel free to post in here.

(Not sure if I posted in the correct section though.)
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_tp-gaming/feedback-a-request-to-microsoft-regarding-vsync/256d2130-1036-41a4-9d54-12ff625a2a8b?tm=1413039430470


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

These guys actually tested most of the settings, turns out what you experience might be just placebo..

http://www.esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-measurement-for-ql/,

Also following stuff actually increases input lag.
2. HPET OFF = stutters + drops in frame rate + it adds HUGE input lag variace - I made 10 measurements and it was anything from 26ms to 90ms (!!!) turning HPET on/off with cmd in WIndows 7 did not make any difference QL/CSGO
5. Turning off scaling completely in nvidia control panel resulted in ~3ms more input lag, but it might be due to the low amount of measurements. I will perform more for this later. QL


----------



## Trull

Oh no, it's another guy trying to enlighten us with a link to *that* ESR post. Well, that's something r0ach certainly didn't know about, thanks a ton for the info!


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

To be honest ?

I trust them more than you or r0ach


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> To be honest ?
> 
> I trust them more than you or r0ach


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> These guys actually tested most of the settings, turns out what you experience might be just placebo..


Did you actually read their tests??? They claim settings like flipque aka prerender do nothing for input lag, which is a completely insane statement. Then they say things like setting HPET off adds lag and turning off scaling increases lag LOL. NOTHING in their tests make sense.

The Anandtech test didn't test any interesting settings, but it's at least more respectable of a test than the ESReality one:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Did you actually read their tests??? They claim settings like flipque aka prerender do nothing for input lag, which is a completely insane statement. Then they say things like setting HPET off adds lag and turning off scaling increases lag LOL. NOTHING in their tests make sense.
> 
> The Anandtech test didn't test any interesting settings, but it's at least more respectable of a test than the ESReality one:
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803


They actually test things, from what I read in entire first post of this topic, you just feel it.. so, you know..


----------



## deepor

r0ach... it absolutely can make sense. First the pre-render stuff is supposedly only Direct3D, so can't show anything in QuakeLive as that's OpenGL. For Direct3D like CS:Go, it could simply be that the engine already ignores that setting and tries to be as low-latency as possible with regards to this pre-render thing. Second, the HPET business could be something weird going on with his machine, with the hardware, the BIOS, Windows, drivers, etc. Your whole thread here is based on weird things like this going on, so I feel you shouldn't attack other people for what they see on their machine.


----------



## r0ach

Went through and rewrote original post some, made it easier to read and removed anything that I'm not 100% certain about having a positive effect on latency. I use every single one of the changes in the main post.


----------



## superV

jeeez ocn gets worse and worse.
u tried some settings shown in the thread?didn't work for you ?
well then feel free *NOT TO LEAVE* bad comments or saying that dude is right and r0ach is not.nobody force you to use *all* these settings,some will work and some not,because we all have different hardware. the most important thing about this thread is that,u learn stuff about latency and how to beat it,and there is given instructions how to do it.
this is a unique thread,there aren't many that cover this specific part of the pc,cuz almost everybody just overclock but don't tweak the software part,and here has been done some work by somebody,and took time,so please stop whining on somebody's work.
this should be posted in the 1st page as a rule


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Besides metro and all that:
> 
> 1) Vsync is forced on at desktop and in borderless window mode. I dislike vsync even while browsing the internet.
> 
> 2) If you calibrate your LCD screen, the color profile is dropped by windows if you go to full screen mode. You're forced to use borderless window mode if you want accurate colors unless you use a directx wrapper which adds a ton of lag.
> 
> Considering 99% of monitors look like crap without being calibrated, I consider this a critical design flaw of the operating system. I haven't really tried optimizing Win8 for mouse movement before, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was worse than Win 7 no matter what you do to it from having too much tablet crap built in. The future will probably be SteamOS or something if Microsoft keeps going this route.


1) You weren't kidding about VSync, I followed these steps for disabling DWM in W8 and the difference is huge: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/141175. It's pretty easy to automate those steps, the problem I have is that after bringing explorer.exe back the desktop bugs out and I lose about 20% of my screen (can't click anything on that space either). Here's a picture:



It might happen because I have two monitors sharing the desktop space, I don't know. Would be nice if someone else tested it. But basically if I can figure out why it bugs out it's very possible to have a VSync free W8. The other disadvantage is that the Metro interface stops working and turns into a black screen.

2) I think that can be solved by loading the color profile to the GPU directly, whatever that means. SpyderPro does this automatically at each startup:


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I don't believe it. There are actually Roach fanboys now, replete with profanity and grammatically dubious screeds.


http://paparoach.com/users/0Z7Cgon2/blogs/12189


----------



## amvnz

The biggest placebo is when he claims setting pre-rendered frames to 0 for AMD cards using RadeonPro makes a difference. 0 means driver default and the lowest you can go is 1. It is directX9 only. It does nothing when set globally, like MLAA. It must be game specific.


----------



## davcc22

I smell dog turd


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I don't believe it. There are actually Roach fanboys now, replete with profanity and grammatically dubious screeds.


Could you post a picture of yourself so I can laugh? Don't go around life thinking you're entitled to talk smack about people because you're gonna be very dissapointed, pal.

BTW, how many languages can you speak and write flawlessly? I'd like to know so I can have a good laugh as well.


----------



## Tazzzz

.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> The biggest placebo is when he claims setting pre-rendered frames to 0 for AMD cards using RadeonPro makes a difference. 0 means driver default and the lowest you can go is 1.


You're correct about 1 being the lowest that you can go and setting 0 seems to revert back to driver default because you can see the huge performance penalty that AMD's poor drivers have when they're set to 1.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> It does nothing when set globally, like MLAA. It must be game specific.


Using the global setting works fine for me. Again, you can see the large drop in performance when flip is set to 1.


----------



## superV

actually i'm amazed by the amount of stupid people.
well if they don't understand what are we talking bout,moar info for me and less for you









well this phrase says it better:
меньше народа больше кислорода


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> these settings,some will work and some not,because we all have different hardware


I think if this was posted on the 1st page you'd get a lot of people stopping from posting negative. I count myself as one who doesn't see the difference, but I'm happy to try and show what I see. I however don't think it brings anything to the table if I start ranting how dumb something is.

You can't compare your Win7 system running X hardware to my Win8.1 running Y hardware.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## detto87

Those "groupies" basically only exist for telling most of you guys to stop the hate that no one beneftis from.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I think you're confusing appropriate skepticism for 'hate', and people will likely benefit more from that than they would from blindly following every suggestion the OP makes.


No I took a look at how those threads developed quickly to a hate parade with image posts and whatnot.
Skepticism, no problem with that.


----------



## go4life

Stop with the hate all together, this is not what this thread is about. You came here in hopes of getting better performance/less input lag not to rant about that you don't agree. Don't like it? Move on...

I am very sensitive to any input lag, and can confirm that several of his tweaks do in fact work. As for HPET I have mixed results depending on the computer I have been using, on my current one in sig it is no doubt better with it off in bios and in Windows, but on my last one it was worse.
Everyone should note that he only tried out these settings on ONE machine and not 1000 different ones, which basically means it might work for some and not for others.

If you can't feel any difference at all even after doing the major tweaks, that is not his or any of his supporters issue that YOU can not see/feel the difference. Most people can't see the difference between 100 and 120fps, but I do. Most people don't see the difference between 720p and 1080p, but I do... Get where I'm going with this?
While not all tweaks may work for you, many of them should work for everyone and give a better experience. If they do in fact work, it is up to each individual if he is sensitive enough to notice the difference. If you don't feel a difference on working tweaks, then you are probably not sensitive enough to see/feel it and there is no need to do the tweaks in the first place. Then you can move on to other threads that interest you instead of filling this one with crap.

Just to be clear, I am no r0ach fanboy or have anything against/for him. I just enjoy a fellow members attempt to share his experience with us and how your experience to might be improved because of it. So thank you r0ach for taking the time to share this with us, I for one just used your guide with great success.


----------



## Trull

I am not a 'fanboy', I am not a 'groupie', and I do not 'follow every suggestion blindly'. Your assertions are way off because you're looking for something to hate and feel better about yourself, and frankly I find all that labeling offensive, but ultimately I really don't care what you think.

r0ach is a guy sitting in his room, just like all of us, he's not some all-seeing prophet that has all the answers. That much should be obvious. The difference is, this guy is actually sacrificing his time and money for a cause that most people outside this environment would find pretty ridiculous or useless. I mean, what would r0ach's worst sin be? Trying too hard? If anything we should applaud his efforts, even if some of it leads to skepticism or is doubtful. He's well aware that placebo exists and is not inmune to it, he doesn't need people reminding him of that every two seconds.

What I'm getting at, r0ach shouldn't be getting the kind of bullcrap he's getting, no one is forcing you or anyone to pay attention to him or do anything he says. The attacks against him are unjustified and absurd, even to the point of accusing him of creating threads just to get attention... what would be the point? He could just as well keep all of this to himself, but instead he's choosing to share all of his finding with us, from what appears to be nothing more than the kindness of his heart and/or his inquisitive mind... and you're gonna give him crap for that? Seriously? I don't know about that.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Trull

Like I said, he's just a guy sitting in his room. That means he's not perfect.

And honestly he shouldn't try to be perfect just to accomodate or make a few people feel better.


----------



## davcc22

I think he is just a guy who is trying to help who cares about what you think of him he is not God or the devil just a guy give it a break take every thing you see on the net with a teaspoon of salt


----------



## r0ach

When I went through and redid my original post yesterday, I tried to remove anything I'm not 100% sure of being a problem lag-wise. I test this stuff on fresh Windows installs all the time and I even did one yesterday. What was really strange to me about my test install yesterday is that I did every single change in the original post with the exception of uninstalling Internet Exploder 8. At this point, I noticed the cursor is not quite as responsive as I'm used to, then right after uninstalling Internet Exploder, it went back to a faster flicking cursor as normal.

The uninstall option for Internet Exploder 8 says "removing this may cause some programs to stop working blah blah", so I think I underestimated just how deeply integrated into Windows this program is and what kind of effect it can have getting rid of it. In other words, some of these changes in the original post might seem like they would do nothing at all, but due to design decisions of programmers overstepping their boundaries, things that seem like they would do nothing can give you big improvements.

Windows is way too general of an operating system for gaming and something like SteamOS or someone else's invention will eventually take over due to issues like these. Or Microsoft could stop acting like fools and just give you a gaming boot mode with only graphics and internet related things running, similar to how I used to run DOS boot disks for certain games.

*as mentioned in my original post, if you for some reason upgraded Internet Exploder above version 8, it probably installed KB2670838 + other updates and probably some backported Windows 8 changes as well. It's better to not upgrade Internet Exploder above 8 and just uninstall it.


----------



## Trull

Can anyone test disabling DWM on W8 and see if they get any bugs? Please, I'm really interested. Just follow these steps to disable DWM:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dexus*
> 
> This is to disable desktop composition in windows 8 and 8.1.
> 
> This does not apply to:
> Fullscreen users (not windowed borderless)
> Other operating systems (Desktop composition is a lot easier to disable in other operating systems)
> 
> Use Process Explorer and run it as Administrator
> 
> Do the following steps in order:
> 
> KILL explorer.exe
> 
> SUSPEND winlogon.exe
> [This is so you can do the next step without it re-opening automatically]
> 
> KILL dwm.exe
> [This is what you don't want to be running, it's the desktop windows manager and has desktop composition. this gets in the way]
> 
> RUN explorer.exe
> [File > Run... in Process Explorer, allows opengl to be used and basic OS navigations excluding metro start menu]
> 
> RESUME winlogon.exe when you want dwm.exe back (or restart)
> [You may have to kill explorer again and suspend winlogon.exe again to get it to be resumeable]
> 
> The benefit to doing this is a dramatic reduction in cursor latency.
> The downfall is the start menu goes to black and can't be used at all.
> 
> This has actually become very safe and easier to do. Now I really do recommend it to anyone on Windows 8 / 8.1


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Can anyone test disabling DWM on W8 and see if they get any bugs? Please, I'm really interested. Just follow these steps to disable DWM:


I've tried all the disabling DWM stuff on Win 8 before a long time ago. I forget why I considered it not very useful. I think it was due to having a black screen and no desktop after disabling it with an app running on top of that so I would have to restart any time I wanted a desktop.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> When I went through and redid my original post yesterday, I tried to remove anything I'm not 100% sure of being a problem lag-wise. I test this stuff on fresh Windows installs all the time and I even did one yesterday. What was really strange to me about my test install yesterday is that I did every single change in the original post with the exception of uninstalling Internet Exploder 8. At this point, I noticed the cursor is not quite as responsive as I'm used to, then right after uninstalling Internet Exploder, it went back to a faster flicking cursor as normal.
> 
> The uninstall option for Internet Exploder 8 says "removing this may cause some programs to stop working blah blah", so I think I underestimated just how deeply integrated into Windows this program is and what kind of effect it can have getting rid of it. In other words, some of these changes in the original post might seem like they would do nothing at all, but due to design decisions of programmers overstepping their boundaries, things that seem like they would do nothing can give you big improvements.
> 
> Windows is way too general of an operating system for gaming and something like SteamOS or someone else's invention will eventually take over due to issues like these. Or Microsoft could stop acting like fools and just give you a gaming boot mode with only graphics and internet related things running, similar to how I used to run DOS boot disks for certain games.
> 
> *as mentioned in my original post, if you for some reason upgraded Internet Exploder above version 8, it probably installed KB2670838 + other updates and probably some backported Windows 8 changes as well. It's better to not upgrade Internet Exploder above 8 and just uninstall it.


How exactly do you get rid of IE in Windows 7? Do you remove it from Windows Features? I've always believed that doing so doesn't remove it entirely. If so, how does one remove it entirely?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I've tried all the disabling DWM stuff on Win 8 before a long time ago. I forget why I considered it not very useful. I think it was due to having a black screen and no desktop after disabling it with an app running on top of that so I would have to restart any time I wanted a desktop.


But it's different now, that's what I'm saying. Like I mentioned in my previous post, in my case Metro functionality is lost (I assume that is unavoidable) and I lose 20% of my screen, but that's about it. That's why I'm asking people to test it, to see if they get the same bug that I get.


----------



## Trull

Screw it, I'm going back to Windows 7. I haven't formatted in years and my SSD is pretty fragmented, so it's about time to get everything running nice and fresh again.


----------



## xD4rkFire

Have there been any improvements in terms of mouse movement with the recent AMD drivers?


----------



## TK421

For ACHI drivers, do we use microsoft ones or Intel ones? (IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers)


----------



## Shwiqo6434

..


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *przem33k*
> 
> Assuming that my motherboard is GIGABYTE Z77X-UD5H, by using the information from the first post in order to overclock my processor (i5 2500k/it 3570k) to ~4.5 GHz - can I believe there won't be any side effects like accelerated input lag?


When i OC my CPU my timer clock goes low.


----------



## n1xxon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Went through and rewrote original post some, made it easier to read and removed anything that I'm not 100% certain about having a positive effect on latency. I use every single one of the changes in the main post.


What were the older intel chipset drivers you previous recommended? They no longer better?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> It's recommended to not put audio devices in MSI mode.


Again can you explain why? The reasons for that?


----------



## ranseed

Do you guys recommend playing with

TcpAckFrequency
TcpDelAckTicks
TCPNoDelay

for lower latency?


----------



## Tsubakii

should i be using nvidia driver 344.11?

i'm pretty sensitive to input lag, but there are a lot of other factors now that im reinstalling windows


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> Do you guys recommend playing with
> 
> TcpAckFrequency
> TcpDelAckTicks
> TCPNoDelay
> 
> for lower latency?


99% of games use UDP, so no. And most likely it won't be good for your system.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> 99% of games use UDP, so no. And most likely it won't be good for your system.


Eh, id say its much closer to.

Most games use UDP, and not TCP, but there is no real downside, as those "few" games that does use TCP gets massive latency gains from it quite often.

Ive been using the Ack and TCPNoDelay tweaks for years upon years, never has it had any effect on my system as a whole, just made programs that used TCP result in lower latency


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Eh, id say its much closer to.
> 
> Most games use UDP, and not TCP, but there is no real downside, as those "few" games that does use TCP gets massive latency gains from it quite often.
> 
> Ive been using the Ack and TCPNoDelay tweaks for years upon years, never has it had any effect on my system as a whole, just made programs that used TCP result in lower latency


This is not correct because those settings effectively reduce congestion on the TCP/IP protocol, there was a discussion long ago about it on multiple forums and the conclusion was that Microsoft had it like that for a reason.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> This is not correct because those settings effectively reduce congestion on the TCP/IP protocol, there was a discussion long ago about it on multiple forums and the conclusion was that Microsoft had it like that for a reason.


sauce then, cause i havent seen any negative impact from using it since 2003 or so i belive


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> sauce then, cause i havent seen any negative impact from using it since 2003 or so i belive


Sometimes things are hard to notice, I think this whole thread is a pretty clear example of that.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *przem33k*
> 
> Assuming that my motherboard is GIGABYTE Z77X-UD5H, by using the information from the first post in order to overclock my processor (i5 2500k/i5 3570k) to ~4.5 GHz - can I believe there won't be any side effects like accelerated input lag?


This is where things get tricky. If you put a 2500k into a UD5H with F14 BIOS, there's some kind of bizarre bug where going over 4ghz clock gives you 1.5v vcore or something insane. All Z77 UD5H BIOS I've tested after F14 did some huge change to how USB works on the board and it feels like they implemented some kind of crazy buffering. They did the same thing with F8 and a few other BIOS between F8-F13. The only two safe BIOS I know of on z77 UD5H are F7 and F14. Just don't overclock a Sandy Bridge over 4ghz on F14.

And obviously, never use Windows BIOS flash.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xD4rkFire*
> 
> Have there been any improvements in terms of mouse movement with the recent AMD drivers?


AMD drivers were very confusing for me to try and figure things out input lag-wise. Anytime you opened the control panel, the drivers would randomly re-detect and re-initialize the monitors connected to it. Each time it did so, the mouse movement would feel different, so it felt like I was playing some kind of shell game with no actual static variables I could judge. Then other factors like I couldn't even change flipque settings without installing buggy bloatware 3rd party apps like RadeonPro that seemed to change other settings on top of the only thing I was actively changing (flipque). You also had options like "Use Extended Display Identification Data" (EDID) option, which seemed to lower input lag on a Korean IPS with no scaler, but I'm not sure if it would be a good option on other monitors with a scaler. And lastly, you can uninstall the AMD control panel completely, which seemed to drastically reduce input lag from not having any services related to it running.

Due to the option of being able to completely uninstall the control panel, the AMD drivers are probably able to beat Nvidia in input lag, but there are just too many other odd, random variables associated with the drivers that I mentioned for me to be that comfortable with. Nvidia drivers are just more straightforward and easier to test without random surprises.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> For ACHI drivers, do we use microsoft ones or Intel ones? (IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers)


The MS ones generally are all lower lag-wise than Intel. Intel probably optimizes for performance which hogs the system resources more, and MS probably goes for compatibility.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *n1xxon*
> 
> What were the older intel chipset drivers you previous recommended? They no longer better?


9.x Intel Chipset drivers include an AHCI driver that has some large lag, plus they include USB drivers, at least for my Z77 board that are worse than Microsoft ones. Intel Chipset drivers 10.x include no actual drivers.

You also quoted me saying don't put audio devices into MSI mode, that was someone else that said that, not me. I haven't been able to determine why AMD GPUs use MSI mode and Nvidia uses line based interrupts on 970GTX. The HDMI audio on the r9 290 however doesn't use MSI mode like the GPU does, it uses line based interrupts.


----------



## Trull

[Made a mistake.]


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Sometimes things are hard to notice, I think this whole thread is a pretty clear example of that.


Yeah, ive no idea how people dont notice the upsides of less latency, i sure feel the difference when playing any mmo or anything that uses TCP


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> If it's true that Intel Chipset Software 10.x includes no AHCI driver, then I think it's safe to assume that there's a Windows Update that installs it, because I just did a fresh W7 install yesterday and sure enough there's an Intel AHCI driver installed besides the Microsoft one:


If you double click on the the line that says "Intel (R) * series controller", under the actual driver tab for that, it should say some Microsoft driver if using Intel Chipset driver 10.x +.

If you're using Intel Chipset driver 9.x, it will have an actual Intel driver there as well as under the USB 2.0 controller.

The USB driver installed by the 9.x and lower Intel Chipset driver is laggier than the Microsoft default one.

The one thing I haven't determined is if 10.x and 9.x Intel chipset drivers are identical or not if you just manually uninstall and delete that AHCI and USB driver that's in 9.x.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> If you double click on the the line that says "Intel (R) * series controller", under the actual driver tab for that, it should say some Microsoft driver if using Intel Chipset driver 10.x +.
> 
> If you're using Intel Chipset driver 9.x, it will have an actual Intel driver there as well as under the USB 2.0 controller.
> 
> The USB driver installed by the 9.x and lower Intel Chipset driver is laggier than the Microsoft default one.
> 
> The one thing I haven't determined is if 10.x and 9.x Intel chipset drivers are identical or not if you just manually uninstall and delete that AHCI and USB driver that's in 9.x.


Oh, damn, you're right, I didn't realize that was just the label for the Intel controller and not the actual driver, hehe. My bad.


----------



## Trull

[Accidental post.]


----------



## r0ach

*Long Post: HPET revisted*

I read some guy today on the Asus forum that was a self proclaimed tech genius with about a million posts saying how awesome it was turning HPET on in the BIOS then forcing Windows to use only HPET and not TSC with "/bcdedit /set useplatformclock true". He said he had 6 DPC latency doing this, and although I had tried this years ago, I forgot what the results were. When I just tried it, there was probably a 1 second delay (1000ms) moving the cursor and it was far worse than just leaving every BIOS and Windows setting at default.

His claim was that TSC is not stable on all systems so you were better off just forcing HPET only, but it clearly sucks running HPET as the sole timer and this guy didn't have much if any gaming background.

It got me thinking more about HPET though. What I did discover is that if you turn HPET and PLL overvoltage on, the cursor is a lot more responsive and normal feeling if you have lots of bloatware and power savings running on your computer. HPET and PLL overvoltage off only feels good to me when running very low ram timings + a complete barebones system and BIOS. For anyone else, leaving HPET and PLL overvoltage on is probably better.

The real problem occurs if you leave HPET and PLL overvoltage on and then optimize your system by removing all non-essential BIOS components and Windows services. The cursor then feels uncontrollably fast, so it's almost like you have to install bloatware and power savings on purpose for HPET to feel right.


----------



## CookieBook

uhm, what is PLL overvoltage?


----------



## Trull

Those are the kind of posts I love, r0ach. Interesting stuff.









Looking forward to knowing more about the HPET mystery.


----------



## Tazzzz

.


----------



## CookieBook

Ok so I just uninstalled the Intel USB drivers and it did make a HUGE difference. Uninstalling the AHCI driver did next to nothing for me though.


----------



## ChieFz

I play the last 4 years on Kiler
Now I tried Intel, and stay on the kiler

I think it's better Kiler, ie. In my case I'm better off doing CSGO

http://i.imgur.com/keZAne5.jpg


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChieFz*
> 
> I play the last 4 years on Kiler
> Now I tried Intel, and stay on the kiler
> 
> I think it's better Kiler, ie. In my case I'm better off doing CSGO
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/keZAne5.jpg


RIP English?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChieFz*
> 
> I play the last 4 years on Kiler
> Now I tried Intel, and stay on the kiler
> 
> I think it's better Kiler, ie. In my case I'm better off doing CSGO
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/keZAne5.jpg


Killer is only better for multi-tasking... if you're doing better in GO it's because you're playing better, not because you have the Killer NIC. Unless you download torrents while you play or some crap like that.


----------



## n1xxon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 9.x Intel Chipset drivers include an AHCI driver that has some large lag, plus they include USB drivers, at least for my Z77 board that are worse than Microsoft ones. Intel Chipset drivers 10.x include no actual drivers.
> 
> You also quoted me saying don't put audio devices into MSI mode, that was someone else that said that, not me. I haven't been able to determine why AMD GPUs use MSI mode and Nvidia uses line based interrupts on 970GTX. The HDMI audio on the r9 290 however doesn't use MSI mode like the GPU does, it uses line based interrupts.


Woops your right I did mess up that quote.

Anyways I swear I remember seeing you mention to use one of the versions of the Intel 9.x driver because it was the closest one to a certain update to USB. I just wanted to verify which one it was.


----------



## r0ach

Ok, I've been testing Windows updates dealing with USB, they all seem safe to install. The main ones to avoid are Kernel and User Mode Driver Framework 1.11 update under optional updates. Those updates get installed with some other programs occasionally, so you will probably want to remove them if they're installed.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Ok, I've been testing Windows updates dealing with USB, they all seem safe to install. The main ones to avoid are Kernel and User Mode Driver Framework 1.11 update under optional updates. Those updates get installed with some other programs occasionally, so you will probably want to remove them if they're installed.


Good to know. About to get my new computer up and running so if you find anything else of importance then feel free to let the masses know.


----------



## r0ach

Going to update original post with Asus specific motherboard settings soon after doing a lot of testing with P8z77-V. The Asus board is CRAZY finicky with settings. The one setting that gave me the most trouble to diagnose why I couldn't get mouse movement to feel right with this board was "Fast Boot", not to be confused with UEFI boot or Ultra Fast boot. It's enabled by default and definitely needs to be turned off.

Since using fast boot only shaves like 1 second off boot time and seems to cause problems with some devices, I have no idea how UEFI insta boot correctly initializes all USB devices without issues.

Coolermaster even released a keyboard that doesn't work at all with fast boot enabled, no idea what that means for UEFI mode using the same keyboard:
Quote:


> "Since Trigger features a very powerful integrated processor, detailed firmware and a lot of memory, it requires more time than other Keyboards to initialize. On some PCs this can cause the boot process to slow down for a second, or result in Trigger not being recognized."


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Going to update original post with Asus specific motherboard settings soon after doing a lot of testing with P8z77-V. The Asus board is CRAZY finicky with settings. The one setting that gave me the most trouble to diagnose why I couldn't get mouse movement to feel right with this board was "Fast Boot", not to be confused with UEFI boot or Ultra Fast boot. It's enabled by default and definitely needs to be turned off.
> 
> Since using fast boot only shaves like 1 second off boot time and seems to cause problems with some devices, I have no idea how UEFI insta boot correctly initializes all USB devices without issues.
> 
> Coolermaster even released a keyboard that doesn't work at all with fast boot enabled, no idea what that means for UEFI mode using the same keyboard:


Yeah. I have a X99 Asus Rampage V Extreme and I've turned off most power saving settings, fast boot, UEFI stuff, controllers I won't need and some more. It's crazy responsive.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Yeah. I have a X99 Asus Rampage V Extreme and I've turned off most power saving settings, fast boot, UEFI stuff, controllers I won't need and some more. It's crazy responsive.


can u tell more bout x99?
currently working on a project, but on z97 not enough pci-e lanes,so looking at x99, but dunno if worth it cuz i have a 5ghz 4790k,and with more cores on chip will not do so much ovc.
what u had before x99?
does it change a lot with hyper threading on/off ?


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> can u tell more bout x99?
> currently working on a project, but on z97 not enough pci-e lanes,so looking at x99, but dunno if worth it cuz i have a 5ghz 4790k,and with more cores on chip will not do so much ovc.
> what u had before x99?
> does it change a lot with hyper threading on/off ?


There isn't much to say. It's a good platform with a lot of performance. I'm coming from a laptop so the amount of input lag I have now is nothing compared to earlier. I haven't turned off hyper-threading. See no reason to.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> There isn't much to say. It's a good platform with a lot of performance. I'm coming from a laptop so the amount of input lag I have now is nothing compared to earlier. I haven't turned off hyper-threading. See no reason to.


jeeeezus that's a big jump


----------



## r0ach

That Asus board has some kind of bizarre keyboard macro chip built into it. I think it only affects 1 USB port though, at least that's what it looks like in the picture on the Asus site, so I probably wouldn't plug a mouse into that slot.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> That Asus board has some kind of bizarre keyboard macro chip built into it. I think it only affects 1 USB port though, at least that's what it looks like in the picture on the Asus site, so I probably wouldn't plug a mouse into that slot.


Keybot? I believe it's on all recent ROG motherboards. I think you can disable it (haven't checked).


----------



## r0ach

Welp, hadn't tried Windows 8 in a long time since before 8.1 came out and just did an install of 8.1. It's gotten way better now and I'm probably going to switch. All the Windows 7 updates nowadays are about making the OS compatible with the Win8 user mode/kernel mode driver framework and WDDM 1.3, so you might as well just use the real thing instead now...

The 8.1 desktop mouse movement is surprisingly much different from 8.0 as well. The 8.0 aero-whatever interface felt more lightweight than the Win7 one, then on 8.1, it's barely noticeable vsync is turned on at all, so they reduced latency further from 8.0.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Welp, hadn't tried Windows 8 in a long time since before 8.1 came out and just did an install of 8.1. It's gotten way better now and I'm probably going to switch. All the Windows 7 updates nowadays are about making the OS compatible with the Win8 user mode/kernel mode driver framework and WDDM 1.3, so you might as well just use the real thing instead now...
> 
> The 8.1 desktop mouse movement is surprisingly much different from 8.0 as well. The 8.0 aero-whatever interface felt more lightweight than the Win7 one, then on 8.1, it's barely noticeable vsync is turned on at all, so they reduced latency further from 8.0.


Please make a guide for 8.1!


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Welp, hadn't tried Windows 8 in a long time since before 8.1 came out and just did an install of 8.1. It's gotten way better now and I'm probably going to switch. All the Windows 7 updates nowadays are about making the OS compatible with the Win8 user mode/kernel mode driver framework and WDDM 1.3, so you might as well just use the real thing instead now...
> 
> The 8.1 desktop mouse movement is surprisingly much different from 8.0 as well. The 8.0 aero-whatever interface felt more lightweight than the Win7 one, then on 8.1, it's barely noticeable vsync is turned on at all, so they reduced latency further from 8.0.


I second the notion of making a guide (even if it's small) for Windows 8/8.1. Or even Windows 10 when that comes out.


----------



## Vantavia

>Nvidia GPU Scaling #Windows8


----------



## r0ach

So far the Win 8.1 experiment is going decent. I did have to disable all of the same services in Windows 8 as Windows 7 to get proper mouse movement, plus entering the charms menu with windows button + C, going to PC settings, and disabling virtually everything there and a few other changes.

Here's one of the tests I do for checking mouse accuracy and consistency, writing your first name in cursive several times in a row:



I did not take my time doing this to try and make sure it looked neat, that's not the point of the test. I did it fast, and as you can see, each one looks very consistent and almost identical. If you're using a DPI level that you know your hand can control and have the operating system set up right, then you really shouldn't see huge deviations doing this.

If your control while doing this test feels very awkward or hugely inconsistent results, and you know you're using a DPI setting you should be comfortable with, that's one of the first signs something is wrong. Windows 8.1 so far seems to actually beat Windows 7 for me in this regard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> >Nvidia GPU Scaling #Windows8


It allows me to choose "Display - No Scaling" on my monitor in Win 8.1 using a 970 GTX and Samsung TN panel. It forces me to use "GPU - No Scaling" using a Korean IPS with no built in scaler on both Win7+Win8. It's entirely an Nvidia driver issue where their GPU scaling tab is significantly more laggy.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I did have to disable all of the same services in Windows 8 as Windows 7 to get proper mouse movement


What services are those?


----------



## Trull

I don't miss 8.1 at all after switching to 7... dunno why you'd want the V-Sync and Metro nonsense.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I don't miss 8.1 at all after switching to 7... dunno why you'd want the V-Sync and Metro nonsense.


Maybe r0ach will enjoy reinstalling two times in a row when he sees what the new kernel does to "high" frame rates. RIP Quake Engine/Osu! for starters.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Maybe r0ach will enjoy reinstalling two times in a row when he sees what the new kernel does to "high" frame rates. RIP Quake Engine/Osu! for starters.


And what exactly does the new kernel do to high frame rates? Unless you can back up that statement you shouldn't go around spreading false information.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> And what exactly does the new kernel do to high frame rates? Unless you can back up that statement you shouldn't go around spreading false information.


If you had any idea how ironic that statement is...
You seem pretty willing to accept anything subjective as fact so don't act like this is anything different, the new kernel causes abnormalities mainly on Quake engine games COD4 and Osu! being notable examples, stable framerates flicker strangely and just generally feels like utter cancer. Unless you ONLY play Battlefield 4 or want to install windows 8 excessively early to get a saving on Windows 10 there is no compelling reason to move unless you enjoy speedrunning OS/program installations.


----------



## r0ach

There are many crippling issues to both Win 7 and Win 8. Off the top of my head, lots of hack web developers seem to think Directwrite text is the best thing ever invented and it seems to function much worse in Win 7, usually resulting in blurry or bad subpixel text. Steam uses it with it turned on by default. I disable it in both operating systems even though it works in Win8 because it causes large input lag having a page open that's running it, the equivalent of having vsync turned on basically.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> There are many crippling issues to both Win 7 and Win 8. Off the top of my head, lots of hack web developers seem to think Directwrite text is the best thing ever invented and it seems to function much worse in Win 7, usually resulting in blurry or bad subpixel text. Steam uses it with it turned on by default. I disable it in both operating systems, even though it works in Win8, because it causes large input lag having a page open that's running it, the equivalent of having vsync turned on basically.


Got any websites to use as an example? Steam has _slightly_ blurry fonts but I could maybe attribute that to the lower contrast scheme it uses.


----------



## superV

this thread has weird effects on people








should be mentioned in the first post: *READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*


----------



## alancsalt

OT discussion that has nothing whatever to do with mice, cleaned.

"May not discuss deleted posts" applies to deleted avatars as well, so unless you want warnings, etc, please *stick to the topic*.


----------



## CookieBook

I was just thinking about having 2 hard drives/partitions and having a installment of Windows on both of them, one for gaming and one for erything not gaming. This way you can have flash player, java and what not but still be able to game with this in your programs list:


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I was just thinking about having 2 hard drives/partitions and having a installment of Windows on both of them, one for gaming and one for erything not gaming. This way you can have flash player, java and what not but still be able to game with this in your programs list:


Don't see why'd you have JAVA or FLASH installed either way. Unless you play Minecraft or watch videos not on YouTube. The only programs installed on my computer now are Chrome, Nvidia driver, Intel Lan driver, games and game dependencies such as directx and .NET framework.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Don't see why'd you have JAVA or FLASH installed either way. Unless you play Minecraft or watch videos not on YouTube. The only programs installed on my computer now are Chrome, Nvidia driver, Intel Lan driver, games and game dependencies such as directx and .NET framework.


I have so much stuff installed, I don't even... I think I'm going to re-install windows sometime soon since all I use on my PC is: CS:GO, FireFox, MSI Afterburner and Sony Vegas.


----------



## Trull

Guys, help me get rid of Synapse 2.0. I got an Orbweaver not long ago, and literally the only thing I use the Synapse 2.0 software for is assigning Shift to key 11 and Ctrl to key 16. I have zero use for Synapse 2.0 outside of those two simple key bindings.

There must be some way to do this without the dreaded Synapse 2.0 software, please help me.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Guys, help me get rid of Synapse 2.0. I got an Orbweaver not long ago, and literally the only thing I use the Synapse 2.0 software for is assigning Shift to key 11 and Ctrl to key 16. I have zero use for Synapse 2.0 outside of those two simple key bindings.
> 
> There must be some way to do this without the dreaded Synapse 2.0 software, please help me.


it doesn't have internal memory to storage for macros,so u need to install that software to use it.
on my ROCCAT Kone Pure it has internal memory,so i don't need to install the software every time.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> it doesn't have internal memory to storage for macros,so u need to install that software to use it.
> on my ROCCAT Kone Pure it has internal memory,so i don't need to install the software every time.


I know, bro, that's why I'm asking for help...


----------



## overvolted

So is this basically saying that I should be running my cpu at a fixed constant voltage for lowest amount of input lag? Meaning r0ach has his cpu running at max voltage 24/7?


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> So is this basically saying that I should be running my cpu at a fixed constant voltage for lowest amount of input lag? Meaning r0ach has his cpu running at max voltage 24/7?


No, that's stupid.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> No, that's stupid.


Yea it certainly doesn't sound reasonable. I was referring to this part:

"3) Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc: You do not want any of these on. No matter how efficient Intel claims they are, all the dynamic power and speed adjustment modes they have added are latency monsters, easily noticeable by a B-grade gamer, assuming you don't have other, higher latency bottlenecks in your system."

Turbo Boost / C-states are required for adaptive voltage right?


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> Yea it certainly doesn't sound reasonable. I was referring to this part:
> 
> "3) Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc: You do not want any of these on. No matter how efficient Intel claims they are, all the dynamic power and speed adjustment modes they have added are latency monsters, easily noticeable by a B-grade gamer, assuming you don't have other, higher latency bottlenecks in your system."
> 
> Turbo Boost / C-states are required for adaptive voltage right?


you can make different profiles in the bios,gaming or other stuff.nobody says you need to use that voltage 24/7.
apparently you are overdumbed


----------



## overvolted

Was simply asking a question no need to be a troll


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> Yea it certainly doesn't sound reasonable. I was referring to this part:
> 
> "3) Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc: You do not want any of these on. No matter how efficient Intel claims they are, all the dynamic power and speed adjustment modes they have added are latency monsters, easily noticeable by a B-grade gamer, assuming you don't have other, higher latency bottlenecks in your system."
> 
> Turbo Boost / C-states are required for adaptive voltage right?


Adaptive/Offset is separate from C-States and whatnot. If I remember correctly.


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> No, that's stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea it certainly doesn't sound reasonable. I was referring to this part:
> 
> "3) Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc: You do not want any of these on. No matter how efficient Intel claims they are, all the dynamic power and speed adjustment modes they have added are latency monsters, easily noticeable by a B-grade gamer, assuming you don't have other, higher latency bottlenecks in your system."
> 
> Turbo Boost / C-states are required for adaptive voltage right?
Click to expand...

I played with those a bit and didn't see a difference, Latencymon showed me hovering around 200 microseconds regardless. Which isn't the lowest latency so maybe it's hiding behind some other lag source, but two tenths of a millisecond isn't a big deal to me.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigpoppapump*
> 
> I played with those a bit and didn't see a difference, Latencymon showed me hovering around 200 microseconds regardless. Which isn't the lowest latency so maybe it's hiding behind some other lag source, but two tenths of a millisecond isn't a big deal to me.


None of those things are related to DPC latency, but 200 microseconds is quite a lot I'd say.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> None of those things are related to DPC latency, but 200 microseconds is quite a lot I'd say.


Here i have a constant 70ish latency with some rare 500μs spikes =/

Edit: my bad ty Trull


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Here i have a constant 70ish latency with some rare 500ms spikes =/


I assume you mean 500μs, which is really bad anyway.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I assume you mean 500μs, which is really bad anyway.


500ms would be 0.5 seconds, that'd be baaaad.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> Yea it certainly doesn't sound reasonable. I was referring to this part:
> 
> "3) Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc: You do not want any of these on. No matter how efficient Intel claims they are, all the dynamic power and speed adjustment modes they have added are latency monsters, easily noticeable by a B-grade gamer, assuming you don't have other, higher latency bottlenecks in your system."
> 
> Turbo Boost / C-states are required for adaptive voltage right?


I would not use any dynamic power stuff myself. Intel has already confirmed what I wrote since one of the main benefits of them engineering FIVR was decreased amount of lag for power state transitions and such, but FIVR is getting the boot in Skylake.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I would not use any dynamic power stuff myself. Intel has already confirmed what I wrote since one of the main benefits of them engineering FIVR was decreased amount of lag for power state transitions and such, but FIVR is getting the boot in Skylake.


Going through all this effort to have 0 latency I would hope to baby jesus you're using crazy low sensitivity with a beach towel sized mouse pad to take advantage of it lol.. And thanks for going through the effort, I do feel like the mouse is a little more comfortable to use with lower sensitivities such as 13" / 360.


----------



## r0ach

I just discovered a new Nvidia issue.

I was testing if there was any lag difference in my 570 reference card and 970 GTX Gigabyte aftermarket card. Cursor movement seems to go to crap after you change the scaling setting or resolution/refresh rate from whatever it was when the driver was first installed. So basically, on a fresh install, you want to install the Nvidia driver, go in and change the scaling tab to "Display - No Scaling", then uninstall the driver, reinstall it, and never touch that setting again.

The same issue was occuring for me when I changed resolutions in Nvidia control panel, which I never noticed happening in the past. I think this might have something to do with some screwed up Gsync implementation in the newer drivers.

Changing all the AA/AF/etc settings doesn't seem to cause any problem, but the second I change anything in the resolution tab or scaling tab, the mouse feels WAY OFF until I uninstall then reinstall the driver again. The guy on ESReality that claimed turning scaling off increased input lag by 3ms might have actually been measuring the effect of this issue.

This was a VERY hard to track down bug and was using 344.11 & 344.16 drivers. I haven't tested anything on 344.48, but it's probably still there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> Going through all this effort to have 0 latency I would hope to baby jesus you're using crazy low sensitivity with a beach towel sized mouse pad to take advantage of it lol.. And thanks for going through the effort, I do feel like the mouse is a little more comfortable to use with lower sensitivities such as 13" / 360.


MLT04 and the 3600 DPI G400 are really the only two mice I like for cursor quality. I use the G400 at it's default 800 DPI / 1000hz. The 4000 DPI G400 and G402 are much worse.


----------



## jtl999

Thoughts on Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H for mouse and DPC latency? Having some weird issues with my ASUS Z97-A related to mouse lag and DPC latency even with a fresh reinstall of Windows and no drivers. Tried mouse on my Thinkpad with 200us DPC latency constant and it is fine.

Thanks


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Thoughts on Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H for mouse and DPC latency? Having some weird issues with my ASUS Z97-A related to mouse lag and DPC latency even with a fresh reinstall of Windows and no drivers. Tried mouse on my Thinkpad with 200us DPC latency constant and it is fine.
> 
> Thanks


I don't know of any good Z97 boards...the only one I've seen where you can turn off HPET + has an Intel NIC is the MSI z97 SLI. The board doesn't let you turn off USB3, which is a big negative, but it might be ok if you just don't install the USB3 driver and disable it in device manager.

Z77 Gigabyte and Asus let you disable HPET + USB3, so I currently use those two boards.


----------



## jtl999

I want to stay with Z87 or Z97 because I already have a LGA 1150 CPU.

Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## r0ach

Asus forum moderator in an unrelated post backing up my statement about why you should never run any dynamic power features, especially when disabling HPET and relying on TSC:
Quote:


> The problems with TSC are:
> 1) The syncing issues that you obviously already met. Workaround to that is CPU affinity. Bind to 1 core.
> 2) Power saving features affect it a lot. S4 or even worse EIST will mess it up.


This is probably why they don't seem to let you disable HPET on x99 too. No idea why they took it off Z97 though.


----------



## CookieBook

What is S4 if I may ask?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> What is S4 if I may ask?


S3 is sleep and S4 is hibernation.

Just ordered the BenQ XL2720z. Amazon has it on sale for $400. The BenQ 24" Gsync version just got listed on Newegg to come out 10/25 for $600, so the 27" will probably be like $800...and of course the ROG Swift is never in stock. The other problem with the Rog Swift is it forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling", and I have no idea if that has the negatives of using GPU scaling on a non-Gsync monitor, but it probably does.

BenQ ULMB also seems to be better than the Gsync module ULMB for motion resolution.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> S3 is sleep and S4 is hibernation.
> 
> Just ordered the BenQ XL2720z. Amazon has it on sale for $400. The BenQ 24" Gsync version just got listed on Newegg to come out 10/25 for $600, so the 27" will probably be like $800...and of course the ROG Swift is never in stock. The other problem with the Rog Swift is it forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling", and I have no idea if that has the negatives of using GPU scaling on a non-Gsync monitor, but it probably does.
> 
> BenQ ULMB also seems to be better than the Gsync module ULMB for motion resolution.


you should buy eizo foris fg2421.it's amazing.


----------



## Vantavia

As a XL2411T owner, the EIZO looks like a really nice option (or maybe even an upgrade). If it was capable of GSYNC I would probably be sat in front of one right now. Lightboost reduces my contrast and colours (and adds a purple tint) so much that I can't justify using it, the reduced visibility cancels out the benefit of reduction in motion blur, 120hz isn't "that" much for fast swipes in all honesty i.e you can still see the gaps between frames if you turn quickly.

5000:1 contrast on the EIZO (claimed) as opposed to 1000:1 on the BenQ.
VA panel instead of the tiresome TN we've come to know and hate.
Black frame insertion instead of Lightboost hack seems like a much better solution (theoretically).

Had the price not been so face-meltingly bad (it's still pretty high) back when I purchased my first 120hz screen I'd have got an EIZO knowing the differences now.

It does seem a tiny bit sluggish compared to the absolute fastest 120hz screens but I don't doubt that it would be worth the few extra ms.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> As a XL2411T owner, the EIZO looks like a really nice option (or maybe even an upgrade). If it was capable of GSYNC I would probably be sat in front of one right now. Lightboost reduces my contrast and colours (and adds a purple tint) so much that I can't justify using it, the reduced visibility cancels out the benefit of reduction in motion blur, 120hz isn't "that" much for fast swipes in all honesty i.e you can still see the gaps between frames if you turn quickly.
> 
> 5000:1 contrast on the EIZO (claimed) as opposed to 1000:1 on the BenQ.
> VA panel instead of the tiresome TN we've come to know and hate.
> Black frame insertion instead of Lightboost hack seems like a much better solution (theoretically).
> 
> Had the price not been so face-meltingly bad (it's still pretty high) back when I purchased my first 120hz screen I'd have got an EIZO knowing the differences now.
> 
> It does seem a tiny bit sluggish compared to the absolute fastest 120hz screens but I don't doubt that it would be worth the few extra ms.


for me g-sync it's a waste,and adds lagg an loose performance.120hz for a va panel that's a lot,+120hz for the black frame, i find it awesome for gaming,it's very fast.it's very visible every tweak i do on my pc,changing 3d settings or other stuff,i note difference









well now it's £319.99 on amazon,but need to see/wait if they may release a new model with bigger resolution


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> for me g-sync it's a waste,and adds lagg an loose performance.120hz for a va panel that's a lot,+120hz for the black frame, i find it awesome for gaming,it's very fast.it's very visible every tweak i do on my pc,changing 3d settings or other stuff,i note difference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well now it's £319.99 on amazon,but need to see/wait if they may release a new model with bigger resolution


Screen tearing and fluctuating framerates are a becoming more and more of an issue because game developers don't care about fluidity any more. Try comparing CS:S to TF2 or CS:GO, CS:S is infinitely more fluid and responsive and it's on the same engine. Now that junk engines like unity (thanks for the 60 fps cap you ****s) and unreal engine (latency simulator 2014) are getting used more it makes gsync feel like a necessity to try to pick up the slack from incompetent game devs.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> you should buy eizo foris fg2421.it's amazing.


It's horrible.


----------



## CookieBook

What is your opinion on "Intel Smart Connect"?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> As a XL2411T owner, the EIZO looks like a really nice option (or maybe even an upgrade).


I had it on my table and sent it back. Ghosting was instantly noticeable.
If you want to use the Lightboost mode (240 Hz they call it) I would use the XL2411T and the strobe hack. Works WAY better. If you want the fastest response time, also use the XL2411T, it's also better. If you want better colors and black levels, go for the EIZO.

Just wanted to throw this in:

Installed Linux again, disabled all mouse acceleration and pushed the Hz of my WMO to 1000 (only achieved 500 on Windows) and after setting 144 Hz with the propietary NVIDIA driver I have to say I got the absolute best cursor feel I ever had. Playing a round in Warsow feels orgasmic.


----------



## r0ach

I went for the BenQ XL2720z and not a Gsync monitor for a few different reasons.

1) Gsync monitors alter refresh rate on the fly, which means it alters your mouse sensitivity on the fly as well unless you are maintaining a constant 144 FPS.

2) Gsync forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling" in the Nvidia scaling tab which I don't know if it has the same negatives as using that mode as on a non-Gsync monitor, but probably does.

3) BenQ ULMB mode is supposedly the best thing out for motion resolution and seems to be better than the Gsync built-in ULMB mode. If you use the custom utility to alter settings, also beats Lightboost 10% without color and contrast problems.

4) If you play a game at 1/2 of the refresh rate while using ULMB mode, the double image persistance will be a lot worse than running with framerate equal to refresh rate. I don't like running SLI, so this means only 1080p monitors will be useful leaving me with only BenQ 1080p and Asus 1080p as options. The Asus doesn't look good with lightboost running, so BenQ 2720z wins by default.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I had it on my table and sent it back. Ghosting was instantly noticeable.
> If you want to use the Lightboost mode (240 Hz they call it) I would use the XL2411T and the strobe hack. Works WAY better. If you want the fastest response time, also use the XL2411T, it's also better. If you want better colors and black levels, go for the EIZO.
> 
> Just wanted to throw this in:
> 
> Installed Linux again, disabled all mouse acceleration and pushed the Hz of my WMO to 1000 (only achieved 500 on Windows) and after setting 144 Hz with the propietary NVIDIA driver I have to say I got the absolute best cursor feel I ever had. Playing a round in Warsow feels orgasmic.


noobies/fanboys can't config

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> noobies/fanboys can't config
> 
> http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm


CS:GO pros have said that they will boycott tournaments with these monitors.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> CS:GO pros have said that they will boycott tournaments with these monitors.


never heard of that.post a link?


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> 
> never heard of that.post a link?


It was VP (Virtus.pro) that posted on their facebooks in polish and english that the monitors were absolute garbage, and that they won't play any other tourney with those monitors.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> It was VP (Virtus.pro) that posted on their facebooks in polish and english that the monitors were absolute garbage, and that they won't play any other tourney with those monitors.


yep the monitors were absolute super fast and you need time to adapt.first time i played bf4 on this monitor it was like playing an fps arena game








needed couple of days to adapt.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I went for the BenQ XL2720z and not a Gsync monitor for a few different reasons.
> 
> 1) Gsync monitors alter refresh rate on the fly, which means it alters your mouse sensitivity on the fly as well unless you are maintaining a constant 144 FPS.
> 
> 2) Gsync forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling" in the Nvidia scaling tab which I don't know if it has the same negatives as using that mode as on a non-Gsync monitor, but probably does.
> 
> 3) BenQ ULMB mode is supposedly the best thing out for motion resolution and seems to be better than the Gsync built-in ULMB mode. If you use the custom utility to alter settings, also beats Lightboost 10% without color and contrast problems.
> 
> 4) If you play a game at 1/2 of the refresh rate while using ULMB mode, the double image persistance will be a lot worse than running with framerate equal to refresh rate. I don't like running SLI, so this means only 1080p monitors will be useful leaving me with only BenQ 1080p and Asus 1080p as options. The Asus doesn't look good with lightboost running, so BenQ 2720z wins by default.


I've tried a couple of games on my ROG Swift that required constant tracking to kill the targets, one of the games I can run at a constant 135fps and the other game I run well under 100fps in many scenarios. Under 100fps in a game like that GSYNC is a detriment, and the worst thing to ever be invented in terms of keeping your aim consistent. However in a title such as TF2 where the frame rates are easy to keep up, it tracks like a dream and GPU - No scaling doesn't feel like a deal breaker to me, even being highly sensitive to input lag. Also so far I've used the BenQ 2420z with blur reduction on, Samsung A700D, and now the ROG Swift and I have to say, ULMB just doesn't have the same motion clarity to me as GSYNC. I may catch a lot of flak for saying this but oh well it really seems to be the case for me personally. If I can keep my frames constant, I pick GSYNC over blur reduction modes any day of the week for a shooter. The look of non-GSYNC gaming to me is just appears "off" now, and is really not acceptable (sounding like a spoiled little brat there). Not even counting the screen tearing, just the overall look of a non-GSYNC display is not something I want to see anymore, and the feel cursor is every bit as good as ULMB when holding those high refresh rates. Unfortunately not even GM200 will be enough to push 1440p at 144hz in all titles. Hopefully 20nm changes that.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Yo, what? Are you high as a kite or something? You didn't answer him at all.


i know,it's very hard for you noobs to understand,special one experienced who before was using a laptop








it's obvious that when you play for the first time on a such monitor, it's hard to play because is sooooooo fast,and changes gameplay ,aiming moving,u can't play as used to,and obviously the butthurt is inevitable


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I never said anything except good things about Asus and BenQ.


It was more for R0ach though. I dunno if mouse movement is negatively affected or not when FPS drops below a certain point (60? 30?) but so far I haven't seen it. Using a overclocked GTX 980.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> It was more for R0ach though. I dunno if mouse movement is negatively affected or not when FPS drops below a certain point (60? 30?) but so far I haven't seen it. Using a overclocked GTX 980.


It really takes playing a certain kind of game to bring out the terrible mouse movement with GSYNC, like LG tracking in Quake Live or pistol tracking in TF2, your cursor should be going to hell below 100 frames if you're using low sensitivity - at least it does for me (or maybe I'm just bad, that's a real possibility). For military style shooters where it involves really no tracking but simply landing a few shots to get the kill, it's not a huge issue unless playing competitively.


----------



## PhilWrir

Lets get back on topic please!


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> It really takes playing a certain kind of game to bring out the terrible mouse movement with GSYNC, like LG tracking in Quake Live or pistol tracking in TF2, your cursor should be going to hell below 100 frames if you're using low sensitivity - at least it does for me (or maybe I'm just bad, that's a real possibility). For military style shooters where it involves really no tracking but simply landing a few shots to get the kill, it's not a huge issue unless playing competitively.


Yea, I haven't used a Gsync screen before, but when I read how it works before it was even released, I already knew it would have this problem and not be useful to anyone that wants proper mouse movement unless they can maintain 144 FPS the whole game without dipping. This means single card users playing something like Battlefield shouldn't go anywhere near a 1440p Gsync screen unless they plan to run it in ULMB mode. But then again, ULMB has other problems when running framerate lower than refresh rate.

TLDR version: 1080p is the only safe resolution for running a single GPU with 144hz or Gsync right now unless you only play old games like TF2


----------



## chace90

I have an odd issue with my motherboard it is an asrock Fatal1ty Z77 Performance. When I turn hpet off in the bios it causes horrible stuttering in games and my frame rates drop very low and become unstable. My dpc latency drops but when I go to do anything it increases and becomes very random ranging from 4 to 600. With hpet on it stays around 30-40. But even stranger when I disable usb 2.0 and only use usb 3.0 my dpc latency with hpet on drops to 15-24. With usb 3.0 disabled and USB 2.0 only enabled it is 30-40. The same as if I had both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 enabled. I am worried that something is broke on my motherboard. I am not really looking for any answers because like I said it works OK with hpet on and USB 3.0 enabled and USB 2.0 disabled. I thought you may find it interesting or someone else might find it helpful.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chace90*
> 
> I have an odd issue with my motherboard it is an asrock Fatal1ty Z77 Performance. When I turn hpet off in the bios it causes horrible stuttering in games and my frame rates drop very low and become unstable. My dpc latency drops but when I go to do anything it increases and becomes very random ranging from 4 to 600. With hpet on it stays around 30-40. But even stranger when I disable usb 2.0 and only use usb 3.0 my dpc latency with hpet on drops to 15-24. With usb 3.0 disabled and USB 2.0 only enabled it is 30-40. The same as if I had both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 enabled. I am worried that something is broke on my motherboard. I am not really looking for any answers because like I said it works OK with hpet on and USB 3.0 enabled and USB 2.0 disabled. I thought you may find it interesting or someone else might find it helpful.


I have an Asrock z87 Extreme 4 that when you disable HPET in the BIOS, it does absolutely nothing and stays enabled in Windows. I also had an ASrock P55 board that caught on fire while running Intel Burn test. You can't really trust an Asrock as far as you can throw it.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I have an Asrock z87 Extreme 4 that when you disable HPET in the BIOS, it does absolutely nothing and stays enabled in Windows. I also had an ASrock P55 board that caught on fire while running Intel Burn test. You can't really trust an Asrock as far as you can throw it.


which motherboard do you find to be the best?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> which motherboard do you find to be the best?


he likes dem giguhbites for the giguh and bites

>more news at 5


----------



## michiKo

Apparently I can't do almost any of these things on my Asus motherboard...
It is sad beacuse I can notice the input lag even on desktop. Also when i fire up the dpclat thingy, I have 100-300µs latency immediately when I start the program.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> MLT04 and the 3600 DPI G400 are really the only two mice I like for cursor quality. I use the G400 at it's default 800 DPI / 1000hz. The 4000 DPI G400 and G402 are much worse.


Not sure why you gave him that answer, since he was obviously refering to in-game sensitivity, but surely you like S3668/S3888 as well... and I still think you exaggerate when you say that the AM010 is average at best... + I have no problems with 5/11 or 4/11, which doesn't really matter anyway since raw input is an option in pretty much every game.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> which motherboard do you find to be the best?


Gigabyte Z77 UD5H is probably the best board out of any Z77 to Z97 I've used, but only when using F14 BIOS. They didn't really release any BIOS versions after F14, just some beta F15 and beta F16 with shoddy, experimental Windows 8 features and what feels like heavy buffered mouse movement. The Z77 UD3H is probably decent too using one of the BIOS around the date of F14 on UD5H, but I haven't tried one.

The Asus P8Z77 is semi decent, but not quite as good as the Gigabyte. The thing also scores 7.7 memory score on Windows experience index while the Gigabyte scores 7.9 with the same settings for some reason. The Gigabyte benches higher in other things as well and has better mouse movement. I haven't tried an earlier BIOS on the Asus yet, so it might do better with an older one just like the Gigabyte does.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Not sure why you gave him that answer, since he was obviously refering to in-game sensitivity, but surely you like S3668/S3888 as well... and I still think you exaggerate when you say that the AM010 is average at best... + I have no problems with 5/11 or 4/11, which doesn't really matter anyway since raw input is an option in pretty much every game.


Yea, the original 3G and 3.5G are good, but they halve counts from 1800 to get a 900 DPI setting, and I don't even remember what they do to reach the 4** DPI setting, 1/4th counts? So they're not engineered really in the best way for people using 6/11. What I was saying is, if you want the best native 400 performance possible, you probably won't find better than MLT04, and same thing for 800 DPI with the original 3600 DPI G400.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Yea, the original 3G and 3.5G are good, but they halve counts from 1800 to get a 900 DPI setting, and I don't even remember what they do to reach the 4** DPI setting, 1/4th counts? So they're not engineered really in the best way for people using 6/11. What I was saying is, if you want the best native 400 performance possible, you probably won't find better than MLT04, and same thing for 800 DPI with the original 3600 DPI G400.


So you play games that don't allow raw input on a regular basis? Cause for Internet browsing I couldn't care less about 6/11 vs <, I even use a BlueTrack wireless mouse for that and I don't really mind it.


----------



## overvolted

Pretty much all ROG Swift owners need those rumors about the new GM200 being 40-50% faster than the TITAN Black on 28nm to be true. If that's not enough, they also need the 20nm cards that come out in 2015 to live up to the hype and increase the performance gap even further, as those cards will be the only ones powerful to push upcoming games around the 144fps area consistently at 1440p, on a single GPU. It's really asking for a lot, but judging from how my 780 TI handles this resolution even with tweaked graphic settings, that's pretty much our only hope of having that ULMB equivalent mouse feel in any game that PG278Q owners fire up.


----------



## r0ach

Made a post about new G402 firmware that also talks a lot about problems you will run into when testing mice and how to avoid them:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1521008/testing-of-g402-new-firmware-and-mouse-company-software-in-general


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superV*
> noobies/fanboys can't config
> 
> http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm


I bought the monitor because of that link you posted and also configured everything possible to make those color shadows / ghosting disappear, to no avail.
What else you got EIZO fanboy?


----------



## detto87

Because those 90% didn't post as I was an early adopter.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> Pretty much all ROG Swift owners need those rumors about the new GM200 being 40-50% faster than the TITAN Black on 28nm to be true. If that's not enough, they also need the 20nm cards that come out in 2015 to live up to the hype and increase the performance gap even further, as those cards will be the only ones powerful to push upcoming games around the 144fps area consistently at 1440p, on a single GPU. It's really asking for a lot, but judging from how my 780 TI handles this resolution even with tweaked graphic settings, that's pretty much our only hope of having that ULMB equivalent mouse feel in any game that PG278Q owners fire up.


Hmmm... tweaked video settings, what does that mean exactly? 'High' instead of 'Ultra'? Cause IMO if you're not trying everything on its lowest setting you're asking way too much, and even if you could mantain 144fps with increased graphics, any multiplayer game will pull that down at least occasionally.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Hmmm... tweaked video settings, what does that mean exactly? 'High' instead of 'Ultra'? Cause IMO if you're not trying everything on its lowest setting you're asking way too much, and even if you could mantain 144fps with increased graphics, any multiplayer game will pull that down at least occasionally.


Tweaked meaning just using whatever allows you to maintain 144fps at all times. You can usually find a few options that cause you to take a pretty good FPS hit but don't increase the visual quality of the game too much. So far using 1440p I'm maintaining 100+fps in almost all games using sensible mix of graphic options. The visual quality is still really really good and I don't have to fight with the mouse too much as long as it's above 100 frames. It's certainly not perfect but if I'm already 100+ fps in demanding titles using a 780 Ti, I'd hope whatever die shrink'd big boy card they release next year will get us pretty close to letting 1440p GSYNC users not have to worry about the feel of their mouse being bipolar. I think with that powerful of a card (hypothetically) the game would have to be horribly optimized to not maintain max refresh rate if you're taking the time to tinker with gfx settings and turn a few things off / down.

Unfortunately there's a lot of horribly optimized games out there lol, we'll see though. If I was hip to all of this prior to buying my ROG Swift I might of held off though..

NVIDIA's PR job > me


----------



## r0ach

I just picked up a BenQ XL2720Z and going to return it. If you turn on ULMB mode + AMA (overdrive), the thing feels insanely laggy. Feels like using a 30+ ms Dell S-PVA panel. If you turn every single thing off on the monitor, it still doesn't feel anywhere close to as good as the three other monitors I already own:

Samsung 245bw (first 24 inch TN panel ever made, has 7ms input lag or so)
Samsung P2770H (first 27 inch TN panel ever made)
27" Crossover Korean IPS with no scaler (0-2ms input lag)

I'm not sure what the deal is with this monitor when review sites claim it has 1.3ms input lag with direct mode turned on and 10ms with it turned off because cursor movement on the thing is horrible. I have a feeling the issue will be something stupid like 144hz monitors not working as they should unless you use a displayport cable, but I don't have one, and they only include dual link DVI in the box.

I tried every combination of settings on the monitor imaginable. The motion resolution is pretty close to a CRT while using ULMB + AMA, but the lag is unplayable. Setting overdrive to on has always been a noticeable source of lag to me on most panels, but the BenQ is more noticeable than any monitor I've ever tried before. Setting it on with a Samsung 226bw was barely noticeable, then on a Dell W2209A IPS it's not noticeable, but this BenQ turning it on, you might as well just slap yourself in the face.

How did they engineer such a poor overdrive? It not only has high lag, but the RTC errors of it are also abnormally high. After reading the reviews of this monitor, I feel like I have some kind of Chinese knockoff PCB inside.

Completely unrelated topic, look at these rigged newegg reviews for the Acer Gsync panel:


----------



## superV

told ya.
r0ach u have to give a try to the eizo and test some settings,i'm sure u will come out with some great news.
ye it costs a bit more and there are big chances to get one with with pixel problems or other,but u can do rma.
usually those problems are on cold,after some of them disappear after a bit.


----------



## Axaion

That PR has really been paying off for benq


----------



## CookieBook

You should really give the XL2411Z a try, or the XL2411T for that matter, they are the really only BenQs you should be using anyways.. Don't listen to that guy telling you to get the Eizo, It's an utter piece of trash with high input latency and wierd colours for a VA panel.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> You should really give the XL2411Z a try, or the XL2411T for that matter, they are the really only BenQs you should be using anyways.. Don't listen to that guy telling you to get the Eizo, It's an utter piece of trash with high input latency and wierd colours for a VA panel.


^ This.


----------



## ShadowDragoon

I notice a couple of the earlier suggestions -- disabling HyperThreading and TurboBoost -- essentially means you're sacrificing system performance for improved latency.

Is this really worth it on anything but the computers of professional-grade gamers? I mean, will these benefits really offset the disadvantages to any common casual/hardcore gamer? I can't see this making much of a difference except to the highest-tier FPS players.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> You should really give the XL2411Z a try, or the XL2411T for that matter, they are the really only BenQs you should be using anyways.. Don't listen to that guy telling you to get the Eizo, It's an utter piece of trash with high input latency and wierd colours for a VA panel.


Yeah, no one in their sane mind is going to pay attention to the Eizo fanboy...









The XL2411T/Z is the best LCD technology can offer right now, but still nothing compared to CRT's in terms of lag.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Yeah, no one in their sane mind is going to pay attention to the Eizo fanboy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The XL2411T/Z is the best LCD technology can offer right now, but still nothing compared to CRT's in terms of lag.


The Z has the lightboost like function which makes it even closer in feel to a CRT (first hand experience, tried it at a friends house). Just not worth the €300 to upgrade form a T to a Z.


----------



## Axaion

Imagine if they managed to get low input latency on the Eizo though.

It would wreck the hell out of -ANY- TN panel ever.

Such a shame they didnt manage to remove that input lag on it, they coulda had a real winner right there, great contrast, colors and viewing angles (specially compared to TN.)


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Imagine if they managed to get low input latency on the Eizo though.
> 
> It would wreck the hell out of -ANY- TN panel ever.
> 
> Such a shame they didnt manage to remove that input lag on it, they coulda had a real winner right there, great contrast, colors and viewing angles (specially compared to TN.)


Have you used it in person? The panel is quite bad for a VA panel, not far off a TN panel.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> The Z has the lightboost like function which makes it even closer in feel to a CRT (first hand experience, tried it at a friends house). Just not worth the €300 to upgrade form a T to a Z.


Well, I had the 27" version of that and I doubt there is any difference. If you turn on AMA + ULMB, the monitor is unusable due to lag. AMA surprisingly feels much worse for lag than ULMB does, but both combined is just horrible for mouse movement. With everything turned off and just running flat 144hz, the cursor control was still crap for me. You saw the picture I posted of writing my first name in cursive for testing mice before and how each one looked very consistent to the next. I can get that consistency using multiple mice on several different monitors, yet if I do it on the BenQ, it looks like I'm high on crack while doing it.

The monitor menu says "Currently Running 144hz" then says something under it like "Most optimized setting: 120hz", so maybe there's some kind of issue where it either doesn't work well at highest refresh rate or needs a display port cable instead of dual link DVI or whatever. It could be anything really.

I don't really have the patience to try and debug this monitor because it's kind of pointless to own if you can't turn ULMB + AMA on without it lagging like a VA panel television. This was my first experience trying out ULMB and honestly it's the biggest overblown gimmick ever. 144hz + a properly implemented overdrive gives me better motion clarity than 144hz + ULMB on with overdrive turned off, so the key to bringing everything together is still a good overdrive implementation, which most companies are horrible at except occasionally Samsung and Asus.

The real kicker is that if you combine ULMB + bad overdrive, all it does is make the overdrive RTC errors more visible.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Have you used it in person? The panel is quite bad for a VA panel, not far off a TN panel.


My main complaint about TN is the viewing angle and that ******ed contrast issue where the bottom of the monitor is brighter than the top, VA should not have the last issue at all, just some slight black crush, which ill take any day over not being able to see a damn thing in the top 20% of the screen in dark areas, at an accetable brightness.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> My main complaint about TN is the viewing angle and that ******ed contrast issue where the bottom of the monitor is brighter than the top, VA should not have the last issue at all, just some slight black crush, which ill take any day over not being able to see a damn thing in the top 20% of the screen in dark areas, at an accetable brightness.


I have no issues with the contrast under normal circumstances (not looking at it from wierd angles). but that might just be me sitting just 20-25 cm away.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I have no issues with the contrast under normal circumstances (not looking at it from wierd angles). but that might just be me sitting just 20-25 cm away.


Im sitting around 45cm~ away from my 22" Viewsonic, and i can tell at all times.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, I had the 27" version of that and I doubt there is any difference. If you turn on AMA + ULMB, the monitor is unusable due to lag. AMA surprisingly feels much worse for lag than ULMB does, but both combined is just horrible for mouse movement. With everything turned off and just running flat 144hz, the cursor control was still crap for me. You saw the picture I posted of writing my first name in cursive for testing mice before and how each one looked very consistent to the next. I can get that consistency using multiple mice on several different monitors, yet if I do it on the BenQ, it looks like I'm high on crack while doing it.
> 
> The monitor menu says "Currently Running 144hz" then says something under it like "Most optimized setting: 120hz", so maybe there's some kind of issue where it either doesn't work well at highest refresh rate or needs a display port cable instead of dual link DVI or whatever. It could be anything really.
> 
> I don't really have the patience to try and debug this monitor because it's kind of pointless to own if you can't turn ULMB + AMA on without it lagging like a VA panel television. This was my first experience trying out ULMB and honestly it's the biggest overblown gimmick ever. 144hz + a properly implemented overdrive gives me better motion clarity than 144hz + ULMB on with overdrive turned off, so the key to bringing everything together is still a good overdrive implementation, which most companies are horrible at except occasionally Samsung and Asus.
> 
> The real kicker is that if you combine ULMB + bad overdrive, all it does is make the overdrive RTC errors more visible.


Have you treid 120Hz?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> The Z has the lightboost like function which makes it even closer in feel to a CRT (first hand experience, tried it at a friends house). Just not worth the €300 to upgrade form a T to a Z.


LightBoost gets rid of motion blur, not lag. You can use LightBoost on the T as well. And yes, I have first hand experience with it too (owned one for months).


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, I had the 27" version of that and I doubt there is any difference. [...]


But that's the thing... there most likely is a difference. The 27 inch one probably works best at 120Hz like you said, but for example the 27 inch panel has way more backlight bleed than the 24 inch one.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> LightBoost gets rid of motion blur, not lag. You can use LightBoost on the T as well. And yes, I have first hand experience with it too (owned one for months).


I know it is not related to lag, I'm just saying that the way it strobes gives it sort of a like a CRT "feel" to it. That's from comparing my old CRT to my then new XL2411T with lightboost.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I know it is not related to lag, I'm just saying that the way it strobes gives it sort of a like a CRT "feel" to it. That's from comparing my old CRT to my then new XL2411T with lightboost.


Yes, and again, it feels kinda similar in terms of motion blur, not lag (which is why I sold my XL2411T)... don't know what isn't clear about what I said.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> My main complaint about TN is the viewing angle and that ******ed contrast issue where the bottom of the monitor is brighter than the top, VA should not have the last issue at all, just some slight black crush, which ill take any day over not being able to see a damn thing in the top 20% of the screen in dark areas, at an accetable brightness.


VA black crush is far more annoying to me than TN panel gamma shift. What am I saying? VA has the same gamma shift. The only difference is details are hidden when looking straight at a scene and you have to look from the sides to see the detail. That's like building aids into the monitor.

Some guy I know just bought a 21:9 IPS and got it to do 85hz over displayport with no issues. I'm gonna ditch the ULMB idea and see which new IPS are out that will clock higher (besides the korean panels, I already got one). Only reason I don't use the Korean IPS is that Nvidia drivers force you to use GPU-No Scaling instead of Display - No scaling with it and it's too lagy.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> (which is why I sold my XL2411T)


May I ask what you are using right now?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> May I ask what you are using right now?


An IBM P275, it's on the specifications in my signature.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> An IBM P275, it's on the specifications in my signature.


Ya I can't go back to a CRT anymore after using my BenQ for over a year now. The XL2411T give me the best performance I can get without getting a CRT.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Ya I can't go back to a CRT anymore after using my BenQ for over a year now. The XL2411T give me the best performance I can get without getting a CRT.


Technically, there is likely some plasma screen out there somewhere with acceptable input lag. You would just probably have to not use it as a general desktop. I have a Panasonic 42" plasma that plays FPS pretty well. If I had to estimate, I would say it has something like 16ms input lag.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Ya I can't go back to a CRT anymore after using my BenQ for over a year now. The XL2411T give me the best performance I can get without getting a CRT.


I also used the XL2411T for over a year, until I got the IBM. What you said is the reason I use two monitors, my general use monitor is a 27 inch LCD @75Hz, I only use the CRT for multiplayer games.

Just like mice, the perfect monitor doesn't exist... at least not yet.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Technically, there is likely some plasma screen out there somewhere with acceptable input lag. You would just probably have to not use it as a general desktop. I have a Panasonic 42" plasma that plays FPS pretty well. If I had to estimate, I would say it has something like 16ms input lag.


16ms seems ridiculously bad to me, even the XL2720Z was tested to be ~10ms. BTW, didn't the burn-in effect get pretty much fixed with the latest generation of plasma panels?


----------



## Scorpion667

Can we compile a list of monitors that allow "Display - No Scaling" under Windows 8.1?
My XL2420T only allows GPU - No Scaling in 8.1. I might switch back to 7 until I find a monitor that allows this and is Lightboost compatible


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Can we compile a list of monitors that allow "Display - No Scaling" under Windows 8.1?
> My XL2420T only allows GPU - No Scaling in 8.1. I might switch back to 7 until I find a monitor that allows this and is Lightboost compatible


Wow, that's crazy. I haven't used a monitor so far that has an internal scaler that forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling" in either Win7 or Win8. The only monitor I've tried that forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling" is my Korean IPS that has no internal scaler.

I'm still looking for a 120-144hz panel that I like. The BenQ 2720Z was not it. Gsync panels so far seem to force you to use "GPU - No Scaling" also.

If I could find an IPS panel with single digit input lag that will overclock to 75-85hz that also has an internal scaler, that would be nice too. Haven't really seen such a thing since the Dell 2209WA.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShadowDragoon*
> 
> I notice a couple of the earlier suggestions -- disabling HyperThreading and TurboBoost -- essentially means you're sacrificing system performance for improved latency.
> 
> Is this really worth it on anything but the computers of professional-grade gamers? I mean, will these benefits really offset the disadvantages to any common casual/hardcore gamer? I can't see this making much of a difference except to the highest-tier FPS players.


If you disable HPET, running virtual cores or any kind of power savings is probably a bad idea.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Wow, that's crazy. I haven't used a monitor so far that has an internal scaler that forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling" in either Win7 or Win8. The only monitor I've tried that forces you to use "GPU - No Scaling" is my Korean IPS that has no internal scaler.
> 
> I'm still looking for a 120-144hz panel that I like. The BenQ 2720Z was not it. Gsync panels so far seem to force you to use "GPU - No Scaling" also.


Windows 7 allows me to do Display - No Scaling. As such, I would have a hard time believing any hardware limitation claims.
I remember everyone raving about Asus VG248QE for a long time... I wonder if that one forces GPU - No Scaling also.

I remember reading some guy tricked his XL2420T to do Display - No Scaling in 8.1 by creating a custom, non-native resolution like 12xx x 9xx and unplugging the power cord from his monitor. [edit] Link, 7th post. But it reverted after he upgraded his Nvidia driver.... I'll try some sketchy things of that nature tonight and report back

If you find anything please let me know r0ach, very interested in your findings. I'll also do some digging


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I remember everyone raving about Asus VG248QE for a long time... I wonder if that one forces GPU - No Scaling also.


There's a critical flaw in just about every LCD monitor since it's basically crap, passive display technology that should be shelved by now. That flaw in the VG248QE is PWM:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1410315/asus-vg248qe-and-eye-strain-migraines

http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-should-the-ASUS-VG248QE-hurt-my-eyes

Being forced to use Windows 7 to get "Display - No Scaling" is a very small problem in comparison.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> There's a critical flaw in just about every LCD monitor since it's basically crap, passive display technology that should be shelved by now. That flaw in the VG248QE is PWM:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1410315/asus-vg248qe-and-eye-strain-migraines
> 
> http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-should-the-ASUS-VG248QE-hurt-my-eyes
> 
> Being forced to use Windows 7 to get "Display - No Scaling" is a very small problem in comparison.


I've been running Lightboost hack permanently enabled for almost two years. Aren't all monitors with Lightboost and low persistence variants, PWM backlit? As I understand it, Strobelight/Lightboost hack synchronizes the frame transitions to the OFF states of PWM backlighting, meaning that when the pixels are being lazy the backlight is off so we don't see it.

I don't think I would buy a non PWM monitor as I like the motion clarity it provides with ToastyX Lightboost utility. I find it to be an amazing experience in games where your FPS NEVER dips below 120.

Some people's eyes are sensitive to PWM and that's fine. Mine are not

I'm not a pro gamer or anything, but I prefer it.


----------



## chace90

Nvidia has stated that they are working on it and that it should be done sometime next year. I would provide a link but the thread was horrifyingly long. It was started by an admin and for a newer driver.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chace90*
> 
> Nvidia has stated that they are working on it and that it should be done sometime next year. I would provide a link but the thread was horrifyingly long. It was started by an admin and for a newer driver.


If you look on the Nvidia forums back before they were hacked or whatever, you'll see me making posts talking about how 186.82 was the last lag free driver they made, and all the 190.xx+ series drivers had horrible lag years ago. They never fixed it for something like 2+ years until sometime around the "miracle driver" release they called it.

Now the driver lag is gone, but they have introduced new bugs where if you change any setting in the scaling tab, mouse movement goes to complete hell until you uninstall the driver completely then reinstall it. This means on a fresh install, you need to set to "Display - No Scaling", then immediately uninstall the driver, then reinstall again. That same behavior I also noticed happening if you changed anything from default resolution and refresh rates as well, which didn't happen in the past.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Scorpion667

Ok it seems the only viable option is switching back to Win7. I only got 8.1 for BF4 last year(actual 25% performance increase confirmed) but I no longer play that.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Ok it seems the only viable option is switching back to Win7. I only got 8.1 for BF4 last year(actual 25% performance increase confirmed) but I no longer play that.


We're on the same boat.









I went back to W7 a few days ago and I don't miss 8.1 at all.


----------



## CookieBook

I never went to Win8/8.1 in the first place


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I never went to Win8/8.1 in the first place


lol

We said *why* we upgraded.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> lol
> 
> We said *why* we upgraded.


BF4 pls...


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> BF4 pls...


I was playing the beta at the time. Had to give it a go...


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> BF4 pls...


No, you're right. I regret buying that. Once the bugs were fixed it was fun, but the fact that it took them 6 months after release to fix the game killed the hype for me.


----------



## r0ach

I've been running Win 8.1 lately because it's pretty obvious we're going to be forced to move to Win 10 for things like DirectX 12, low level access, and other optimizations. Going to edit the original post to add Win 8.1 specific content soon. I still need to look into what kind of effect things like removing the Windows store completely will have. Also services like "Time Broker" that seem to be used for Windows store apps. For some reason it lets you disable the service but won't let you set it's startup mode to disabled.

Anyway, cursor movement is definitely a lot better with Time Broker disabled.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I've been running Win 8.1 lately because it's pretty obvious we're going to be forced to move to Win 10 for things like DirectX 12, low level access, and other optimizations. Going to edit the original post to add Win 8.1 specific content soon. I still need to look into what kind of effect things like removing the Windows store completely will have. Also services like "Time Broker" that seem to be used for Windows store apps. For some reason it lets you disable the service but won't let you set it's startup mode to disabled.
> 
> Anyway, cursor movement is definitely a lot better with Time Broker disabled.


Cheers, look forward to it!

eyo r0ach we have the same RAM. I want to try tweaking mine for 1600 with tight timings as opposed to my current 2133 CL10.
When you get a chance could you take a screenshot of your subtimings please? trfc and such
Most likely it won't be plug and play but I need a baseline to start from as I've never tweaked these at 1600 before. I'll worry about that part on my end, won't bug you about it.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Cheers, look forward to it!
> 
> eyo r0ach we have the same RAM. I want to try tweaking mine for 1600 with tight timings as opposed to my current 2133 CL10.
> When you get a chance could you take a screenshot of your subtimings please? trfc and such
> Most likely it won't be plug and play but I need a baseline to start from as I've never tweaked these at 1600 before. I'll worry about that part on my end, won't bug you about it.


You should give CL8 with 1866mhz a try, I think it's a good middle ground of not adding input lag but not giving up much performance if you go with 8-9-9-24 timings. At least on my Trident X kit it's working that way, really smooth.


----------



## Trull

What's wrong with using one of the standard JEDEC profiles?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> You should give CL8 with 1866mhz a try, I think it's a good middle ground of not adding input lag but not giving up much performance if you go with 8-9-9-24 timings. At least on my Trident X kit it's working that way, really smooth.


I tried 8-9-9-24 1866 @ 1.55v (max I'm willing to put through 1.35v RAM with no heatspreader) with the same subtimings that I run stable on 2133 9-10-10-21 but it's very finnicky. That was on my old 3930k maybe the IMC was the problem back then. I'll try again later on my new one. I just hate running Prime95, wish there was a better way to test memory OC on x79 but unfortunately Prime blend is the best

I guess let's try to keep the RAM tweaking talk to a minimum, slightly off topic nomsayin. I appreciate the advice though! +1
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> What's wrong with using one of the standard JEDEC profiles?


It's no fun


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> eyo r0ach we have the same RAM. I want to try tweaking mine for 1600 with tight timings as opposed to my current 2133 CL10.
> When you get a chance could you take a screenshot of your subtimings please? trfc and such
> Most likely it won't be plug and play but I need a baseline to start from as I've never tweaked these at 1600 before. I'll worry about that part on my end, won't bug you about it.


I haven't messed with subtimings since I've been busy messing with other settings. I just know the Samsung 30nm isn't supposed to scale well or at all past 1.45v, so I don't go higher. Since Ivy Bridge lets you force a 100:100 Bclk to memory ratio, I also think 1600 and not a 133 ratio setting is going to be the best option.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I haven't messed with subtimings since I've been busy messing with other settings. I just know that ram isn't supposed to scale well or at all past 1.45v, so I don't go higher. Since Ivy Bridge lets you force a 100:100 Bclk to memory ratio, I also think 1600 and not a 133 ratio setting is going to give you better results.


So you're running 7-8-7-24 1600 with stock subtimings? Damn dude your sticks are pretty damn good then. Mine literally won't even boot when i try that LOL!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> The scaling behavior I was describing happens in Windows 7.


Oh. Meh, I only worry about the things I have control over


----------



## HiTechPixel

R0ach, tried the new Intel LAN 19.5 drivers? Interested in knowing the difference between 19.5 and 19.1!


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> R0ach, tried the new Intel LAN 19.5 drivers? Interested in knowing the difference between 19.5 and 19.1!


I'm screwing around with Win 8.1 right now and just used the default ethernet driver included at the moment.

It doesn't appear like any ROG Swift owners want to touch my post on Gsync:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1521969/gsync-is-most-likely-useless-and-harmful-for-gaming-performance-in-current-form


----------



## r0ach

Ok, I think I'm sold on Win8.1 now. I'm either going to add a Win8.1 section to the main post or convert the whole thing to it. The main offenders for screwing up mouse movement in Win8.1 are Windows Defender, Nvidia Virtual Audio under device manager (disable it), Time Broker service, and a couple other things.

To get rid of Time Broker, you have to go to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker

Set "Start" key to 4 instead of 3 to disable it, otherwise it will only let you kill the service but won't let you change it to disabled.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Ok, I think I'm sold on Win8.1 now. I'm either going to add a Win8.1 section to the main post or convert the whole thing to it. The main offenders for screwing up mouse movement in Win8.1 are Windows Defender, Nvidia Virtual Audio under device manager (disable it), Time Broker service, and a couple other things.
> 
> To get rid of Time Broker, you have to go to:
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker
> 
> Set "Start" key to 4 instead of 3 to disable it, otherwise it will only let you kill the service but won't let you change it to disabled.
> 
> I also seem to get better results with Human Interface Device service enabled in Win8.


As tempting as it is to go with something more up-to-date than Windows 7... I just can't. At least not until Windows 10 launches with DirectX 12.

Windows 7 still has the old classic theme, it doesn't have any underlying metro stuff hogging resources and I just like it more.

So please don't convert the entire post. Make different sections for Windows 7 and Windows 8.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Probably because you're coming over with your usual alarmist tone.


lol, it's not exactly alarmist when just about everything made in China is junk, Nvidia takes 2+ years to fix software bugs, and Gsync was broken for competitive gameplay from a technical standpoint from day 1. It still may or may not hold adverse effects even if you can hold a constant 144FPS without dipping.

Look at my review of the EVGA 970 FTW. Notice how I didn't even mention coil whine and talked only about things that actually matter the most and it still failed miserably unless they issue a BIOS update for it:

http://forums.evga.com/Can-I-get-an-EVGA-response-on-some-970-GTX-FTW-issues-m2244186.aspx


----------



## Xoriam

Anyone know how to get DCP latency checker for Linux, Ubuntu studio x64?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> "Gsync is most likely useless and harmful for gaming performance"
> 
> "There is most likely zero reason to even consider buying a Gsync monitor"
> 
> ^ These are alarmist, hyperbolic blanket statements that neglect to take into account the _significant_ potential benefits of G-Sync.
> 
> And the operative phrase here is "most likely", meaning you seem to have as much experience with G-Sync as I do (ie. none). A truthful statement would be that G-Sync has very significant theoretical benefits, but there may also be some trade-offs.


You forgot that someone already posted in this thread where Nvidia acknowledged the "GPU-No Scaling" thing caused significantly higher lag than "Display-No Scaling", and that they would try to fix it "sometime next year". Since all Gsync panels so far have no internal scaler and use this mode, Gsync is most likely currently screwed for the foreseeable future due to Nvidia driver issues alone. This is not even taking into account changing refresh rate on the fly also alters mouse response.

If you buy a ROG Swift now, it will probably be obsolete before Nvidia even fixes the driver issue since their timeframe was "sometime next year". I really wanted to buy a ROG swift due to 8bit TN + it's resolution myself, but there's no way I'm dealing with issues like that with no timeframe for solutions.

I also foresee mouse problems getting worse until Intel figures out that mice need their own interface and not USB, especially when they're moving towards converting USB to a video interface soon.


----------



## error-id10t

Do you have the FTW? If yes can you check it's TDP instead of talking about it in %.. just extract it via GPU-Z and throw it into KBT, last value under power table should show it.. little surprised it's banging on TDP considering it's meant to be better than the SC card.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Do you have the FTW? If yes can you check it's TDP instead of talking about it in %.. just extract it via GPU-Z and throw it into KBT, last value under power table should show it.. little surprised it's banging on TDP considering it's meant to be better than the SC card.


 evga_970FTW_StockBios.zip 136k .zip file


I don't feel like installing .NET 3.5 to run MBT, so here's the attached EVGA 970 FTW stock bios if you want to look.

Even if you max TDP slider to 110%, it still wants to go all the way to 113% to reach it's stock boost clock of 1405 in Cryengine 3. All this GPU utilization pinging + clockspeeds doing the same thing going up and down makes it pretty stuttery. The card is insanely TDP limited.


----------



## error-id10t

187W @ 110% .. same as SC card.


----------



## error-id10t

dupl


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> 187W @ 110% .. same as SC card.


Nice, that truly sucks. The ASUS Strix TDP limit is 163 stock and 196 with maximum power slider, so the EVGA FTW is the lowest TDP of all while having the highest boost......


----------



## Xoriam

Mine is at roughly 1000... I tried everything i can think of.
No software, barebone build.
Turning off devices in device manager.
Turning on and off my overclock for my cpu, adjusting settings.

Nothing seems to change it by even 1


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xoriam*
> 
> Mine is at roughly 1000... I tried everything i can think of.
> No software, barebone build.
> Turning off devices in device manager.
> Turning on and off my overclock for my cpu, adjusting settings.
> 
> Nothing seems to change it by even 1


What OS? Win 8.1 doesn't work with most DPC monitoring programs and will just sit at that number.


----------



## Xoriam

The same one you've been using in this thread, DPC Latency Checker.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xoriam*
> 
> The same one you've been using in this thread, DPC Latency Checker.


It works on Win7 but not Win8.


----------



## Xoriam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It works on Win7 but not Win8.


Was going to say... 1k seemed alittle ridiculous. I don't feel any latency in my mouse movement or anything.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xoriam*
> 
> Was going to say... 1k seemed alittle ridiculous. I don't feel any latency in my mouse movement or anything.


Use LatencyMon instead. Gives you an idea.

http://www.resplendence.com/downloads


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Nice, that truly sucks. The ASUS Strix TDP limit is 163 stock and 196 with maximum power slider, so the EVGA FTW is the lowest TDP of all while having the highest boost......


I hope you expected nothing less from EVGA with that major cooler issue befor ACX 2.0

Should have gotten the gigabyte if you wanted a to use more juice, then the MSI, than Asus IIRC.


----------



## detto87

If you CAN I recommend testing out Linux, preferably ArchLinux or some other distro that let's you decide what is running on your machine.
I'm hooked since I experienced the performance myself.

2c


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> If you CAN I recommend testing out Linux, preferably ArchLinux or some other distro that let's you decide what is running on your machine.
> I'm hooked since I experienced the performance myself.
> 
> 2c


Yeah, and sucks ass for gaming...


----------



## Trull

Anyone tested the 19.5 Intel drivers yet? I could do it, but if someone else has already done it...


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> I hope you expected nothing less from EVGA with that major cooler issue befor ACX 2.0
> 
> Should have gotten the gigabyte if you wanted a to use more juice, then the MSI, than Asus IIRC.


Here is my explanation as to why I consider the Gigabyte card sketchy:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The Gigabyte card has an active displayport to DVI adapter built into the card to give it a second DVI port, so I don't really trust it. When I plugged the monitor into the DVI-D port on it, it felt off compared to the DVI-I because the active displayport adapter connects to the DVI-D port. This means if I wanted to use the displayport on the card, it might have similar issues. It did run games very smoothly off DVI-I though.
> 
> The Gigabyte card also uninstalls itself completely from your system and loads up a different BIOS from it's secondary BIOS chip when I plugged it into a different port. It's a weird card and I wish they would have just kept the normal reference outputs.


There is not enough documentation on Flex Display and how the active displayport to DVI port adapter affects the rest of the card's operation for someone that cares about mouse movement to be comfortable with it.

Using any kind of non-reference card is already a bit sketchy to me.


----------



## r0ach

Ugh, Nvidia strikes again. I for some reason hadn't done any comparison between 344.16 and 344.48 drivers and assumed they would be identical in mouse movement. There seems to be a large difference between the two on a 970 in Win 8.1 for mouse movement. The 344.48 driver feels a lot faster and out of control compared to the 344.16. It feels like I'm using 1200 DPI instead of 800. ManuelG is really screwing things up with these drivers.

This is most likely why the BenQ 2720Z felt so screwed up on my system because I tested it using 344.48 drivers.

EVGA workers seem to be reporting issues between 344.16 and 344.48 as well:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVGATech_JaesonW*
> I have heard varying reports of people having better performance with 344.16


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Ugh, Nvidia strikes again. I for some reason hadn't done any comparison between 344.16 and 344.48 drivers and assumed they would be identical in mouse movement. There seems to be a large difference between the two on a 970 in Win 8.1 for mouse movement. The 344.48 driver feels a lot faster and out of control compared to the 344.16. It feels like I'm using 1200 DPI instead of 800. ManuelG is really screwing things up with these drivers.
> 
> This is most likely why the BenQ 2720Z felt so screwed up on my system because I tested it using 344.48 drivers.
> 
> EVGA workers seem to be reporting issues between 344.16 and 344.48 as well:


Dynamic Super Resolution was added for previous generation cards, I have no doubt that this is what is causing the issue.


----------



## thizito

r0ach, i dont really care with what im familiar or work to be done

im using win7 sp1 no updates at all
clean and nice

but sometimes i guess, would 8.1 or XP be better for mouse response.. or its a myth with no answer?

can you please give your notes?

edit: also with gtx680 msi no problems at all 344.48, i think ill try 344.16
also have 2720Z too. DSR with 1440p sounds AWESOME for other games. not for csgo or competitive tough.

I also have some other questions, like:

Running game in Multicore disabled reduce a little input lag VS Higher fps reduces a little input lag
Should i overclock higher one core and play with it disabled to test?

Why you dont do input lag tests with high fps camera ? You would prove all your teory currently doubt

sorry bad engrish.


----------



## Scorpion667

r0ach:
MSI lightning cards on LN2 BIOS keep their clocks locked in, zero clock speed manipulation in game.
Meaning, if my GPU core is 1200Mhz, the only frequency my game will ever see is 1200Mhz with zero variance. Works flawlessly.

And no you don't ahve to install any software for this, it's a physical BIOS switch on the card.
That's one of the reasons I tend to stick with Lightning cards.

From what I understand they are skipping 980gtx in anticipation of 980TI. They made that mistake last year where they released 780 Lightning then 780TI came out and they were screwed.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> but sometimes i guess, would 8.1 or XP be better for mouse response.. or its a myth with no answer?


I have recently gotten Win 8.1 to function similar to Win 7 in terms of mouse movement. I believe all the changes required to do so are listed in the original post now, although they are scattered about in different areas. The big main differences are things like Windows Defender adds a substantially larger amount of lag in Win 8 than Win 7. Even people who are horrible at games have told me they easily noticed disabling it. Other, new things in Win8 need to be disabled like "Nvidia virtual audio" in device manager, which isn't in Win 7, and services like "Time Broker" in Win8 that aren't in Win 7. I'll have to do a step by step guide with pictures for Win 8.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> Running game in Multicore disabled reduce a little input lag VS Higher fps reduces a little input lag


I notice either zero or little gain even in brand new engines like Cryengine 3 with this setting. I disable it because you typically want as little parallelization as possible with HPET disabled and the setting used to cause some delay when it was first introduced, though I'm unsure if it still does. What I'm getting at is, overall you gain little or nothing with it on. It might give you something in a game like BF4, I'm not sure. Most games gain nothing. I like to play things safe and would rather choose the safest setting rather than enable something that might give me 1 FPS for higher lag.


----------



## thizito

i have asus vii hero motherboard, i never installed any asus software, it is a lagfest in my vision
g100s without driver 1000dpi
everything in the right place.

but my hpet is on with dpc latency very very low
i think hpet works differently in each setup, idk

but is that really necessary to make it off?
i will be like 0 difference in my eyes, right ?

also 1080p in 27" monitor (our monitor) is not scaling at all right ?

and ill install today 344.16 to check but really happy with the newest one


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> i have asus vii hero motherboard, i never installed any asus software, it is a lagfest in my vision
> g100s without driver 1000dpi
> everything in the right place.
> 
> but my hpet is on with dpc latency very very low
> i think hpet works differently in each setup, idk
> 
> but is that really necessary to make it off?
> i will be like 0 difference in my eyes, right ?


Read this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware-2014-r0ach-edition/530#post_22994145


----------



## thizito

i may not have the best knowledge in tweak and stuff
but i do know overclocking..
pll voltage and mouse movement, are you SERIOUS?
with adaptive or fixed voltage, any overclock may result in some dpc latency change..

but there is ZERO, zero relatationship with input/device/mices/drivers
that is just not possible.. must be just a speculation

having 2-5u dpc latency with hpet on, and 5-10u dpc latency with hpet off will not change your mice
for love of god.

i do enjoy r0ach , his posts etc, but write that it results in lag in cursor is blasfemy.
you may write "computer seems more responsive / dpc latency lowered , etc.. "

i had syncmaster crt with 150hz, and now 2720Z
in both times things like that, and other stuff like that never made my cursor look suspicious different.

im not mad, just discussing, any proves?
i should explain further about it..
like this resolution in Mhz, how is he used in games ? it is calculations for your pc run? what is that ?


----------



## Trull

[nvm]


----------



## overvolted

I think a lot of this stuff could be "somewhat" proven. Show videos of your twitch shots / tracking with and without certain settings enabled. Otherwise one could argue with is all up to personal preference / placebo. I myself think there's merit to a lot of what r0ach says, input lag hasn't been at the forefront of manufacturers thinking process for a while but some proof would be nice too. Not many games today reward raw aim unfortunately or would be good for this kind of testing, that's more of an arena shooter thing which are far from popular now (supposedly that's changing in the next year fingers crossed). Quake Live, Team Fortress 2 (scout), anything that involves extended no recoil tracking mixed with some twitch shot are good testaments of whether someone's rig is working for them or not in terms of mouse feel.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> I think a lot of this stuff could be "somewhat" proven. Show videos of your twitch shots / tracking with and without certain settings enabled. Otherwise one could argue with is all up to personal preference / placebo. I myself think there's merit to a lot of what r0ach says, input lag hasn't been at the forefront of manufacturers thinking process for a while but some proof would be nice too. Not many games today reward raw aim unfortunately or would be good for this kind of testing, that's more of an arena shooter thing which are far from popular now (supposedly that's changing in the next year fingers crossed). Quake Live, Team Fortress 2 (scout), anything that involves extended no recoil tracking mixed with some twitch shot are good testaments of whether someone's rig is working for them or not in terms of mouse feel.


That would literally prove nothing, *especially* not videos.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> That would literally prove nothing, *especially* not videos.


If there were pre-existing videos of what a person's aim normally looks like in a particular game, you could use those to compare if you wanted. It may not be conclusive evidence by any means but if people are claiming their cursor is effected by a certain thing, okay show us what can it hurt.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> If there were pre-existing videos of what a person's aim normally looks like in a particular game, you could use those to compare if you wanted. It may not be conclusive evidence by any means but if people are claiming their cursor is effected by a certain thing, okay show us what can it hurt.


In that case: would need to be a high frame rate video, same mouse, same settings, same playing mood, same skill, same experience, same opponents... would be hard to replicate to say the least, assuming we would even be able to *see* a difference instead of actually *feeling* it, which is what is really tangible.


----------



## overvolted

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> In that case: would need to be a high frame rate video, same mouse, same settings, same playing mood, same skill, same experience, same opponents... would be hard to replicate to say the least, assuming we would even be able to *see* a difference instead of actually *feeling* it, which is what is really tangible.


That's true, that scenario wouldn't be the easiest to replicate and the difference of feeling vs seeing is a problem there. I guess it'd only be helpful in the event of something extreme (vsync on vs vsync off), but damn that's almost how some people here describe their experience with input lag using some of the current nvidia drivers. They make it sound obvious enough that it would translate easily to youtube.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> i may not have the best knowledge in
> pll voltage and mouse movement, are you SERIOUS?


100% serious. If you can't disable HPET, then a lot of these things you can't notice. HPET kind of places a ceiling on just how responsive the mouse can be where changing other settings won't make much of a difference if you can't get rid of it.

There's my post on that subject:

21) *LLC and PLL Overvoltage* - I've tested these a lot, and although people overclocking like to utilize them, I've found they do strange things to mouse movement. Generally anything involved with ramping up voltage response on the motherboard tends to make it feel like you have less a dead zone on the mouse where it's easier to overshoot with the cursor. I prefer to have both of these options off and seemed to dislike the effect of PLL overvoltage more than high LLC. You need to set PLL overvoltage to off instead of auto, because auto usually means turned on.

If you can turn HPET off, then you should be able to notice a difference by setting LLC - high and PLL Overvoltage - On vs having them both off.

A lot of it with voltage response is preference though, but it's not very hard to notice a difference. Since settings like PLL overvoltage did not exist in the old days, I would consider "off" a more normal setting to baseline off of....


----------



## CookieBook

@r0ach, about the PLL and LLC thing: I can only find CPU PCIE PLL and Filter PLL in my bios options. They are both set to auto, should I set them to disable for a better result?

Picture for reference:


----------



## chace90

What nvidia driver would you recommend for someone with a gtx 670. The farthest I can go back is to 306.23


----------



## Classif13d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chace90*
> 
> What nvidia driver would you recommend for someone with a gtx 670. The farthest I can go back is to 306.23


I think 340.52 is the best for 600/700 series cards. The problems started to occur with 344.11 aka 900 series drivers. Unless there is something you are not telling us.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> @r0ach, about the PLL and LLC thing: I can only find CPU PCIE PLL and Filter PLL in my bios options. They are both set to auto, should I set them to disable for a better result?
> 
> Picture for reference:


I don't know what MSI's Engrish nomenclature stands for but it appears that setting has nothing to do with PLL overvoltage and is a Haswell specific setting:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CL3P20*
> 
> PCI-E PLL - set to SB PLL to lock PCI-E freq at 100mhz.. helps with pci component stability as well as HDD/SSD


----------



## r0ach

Updated some stuff in the main post:

9) *Human Interface Device Access* - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard, but it also has a large effect on mouse movement. I discovered that you need to have this service running when plugging in USB devices like keyboards and mice on Win8, installing drivers for mice, etc, but it can be disabled when you're not doing anything like that.

If your mouse ever feels screwed up for some reason, the best course of action is to enable this service, restart the computer, then go into device manager and disable whichever "USB Composite device" corresponds to your mouse in the list (the only other option is your keyboard), then reboot. You can then disable the service if you want. If your mouse or keyboard fail to initialize after doing so, you have to unplug them then replug them back in, usually only happens when disabling more than one at a time.

There are some other issues to deal with. If you keep Logitech drivers (LGS) installed, anytime you boot your PC, the Logitech icon will appear in the task bar and you'll hear a Windows sound while the G502 mouse will flash, which means the driver is reinitializing the mouse for some reason. This means if you run LGS on your PC for some reason, you probably shouldn't disable it.



*Random Nvidia Issues*

Nvidia has something in device manager on Win8.1 called "Nvidia Virtual Audio" that's used when streaming to a mobile device. This is a lagfest that needs to be disabled. You may want to disable the Nvidia HDMI audio in device manager as well under the sound section.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Updated some stuff in the main post:
> 
> 9) *Human Interface Device Access* - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard, but it also has a large effect on mouse movement. I discovered that you need to have this service running when plugging in USB devices like keyboards and mice on Win8, installing drivers for mice, etc, but it can be disabled when you're not doing anything like that.
> 
> If your mouse ever feels screwed up for some reason, the best course of action is to enable this service, restart the computer, then go into device manager and disable whichever "USB Composite device" corresponds to your mouse in the list (the only other option is your keyboard), then reboot. You can then disable the service if you want. If your mouse or keyboard fail to initialize after doing so, you have to unplug them then replug them back in, usually only happens when disabling more than one at a time.
> 
> There are some other issues to deal with. If you keep Logitech drivers (LGS) installed, anytime you boot your PC, the Logitech icon will appear in the task bar and you'll hear a Windows sound while the G502 mouse will flash, which means the driver is reinitializing the mouse for some reason. This means if you run LGS on your PC for some reason, you probably shouldn't disable it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Random Nvidia Issues*
> 
> Nvidia has something in device manager on Win8.1 called "Nvidia Virtual Audio" that's used when streaming to a mobile device. This is a lagfest that needs to be disabled. You may want to disable the Nvidia HDMI audio in device manager as well under the sound section.


You can plug stuff in without any worry on Windows 7 with Human Interface Device Access disabled in services.msc. Just so people know that W7 is still superior to W8.


----------



## Vantavia

NVIDIA Virtual Audio is for Shadowplay, it won't record audio without it.


----------



## chace90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Classif13d*
> 
> I think 340.52 is the best for 600/700 series cards. The problems started to occur with 344.11 aka 900 series drivers. Unless there is something you are not telling us.


I am currently using 337.88. I looked at the release notes and see no reason to update to 340.52. Is 337.88 just as good? I don't have Metro: Redux and that is the only reason I see for using 340.52 over 337.88.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> NVIDIA Virtual Audio is for Shadowplay, it won't record audio without it.


It's easy to notice when you disable it in Device manager no matter if you use it or not on my system. I also disable HDMI audio on the GPU.


----------



## erobuR

which are the optimal drivers for gtx 470?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erobuR*
> 
> which are the optimal drivers for gtx 470?


I don't have much experience with newer Nvidia drivers. 186.82 was the best 280gtx driver for both lag and performance. 267.59 was the best lag-wise on my 570gtx, followed by 295.73, but newer Nvidia drivers fixed the lag problem somewhere around the release of the "miracle driver" is what they called it. 344.16 is the best so far on 970 GTX.

You would probably be better off using one of the newer ones but before the release of 344.48.


----------



## overvolted

When using DPC Latency Checker, is it normal for it to constantly spike up to 1000 if you're moving the mouse around or open a program? That's what I'm getting currently. If I don't move the mouse or click any programs it stays around 8 most the time, with only occasional spikes up to 1000. Using Win 8.1


----------



## chace90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overvolted*
> 
> When using DPC Latency Checker, is it normal for it to constantly spike up to 1000 if you're moving the mouse around or open a program? That's what I'm getting currently. If I don't move the mouse or click any programs it stays around 8 most the time, with only occasional spikes up to 1000. Using Win 8.1


Dpc latency checker isn't compatible with windows 8 or 8.1. Use http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon instead.


----------



## r0ach

This picture makes me glad I did not order a Rog Swift....look at that pixel inversion. Seriously, how are these things out of stock with issues like that?


----------



## CookieBook

@r0ach, I wanted to add something you might want to add in the main post. Disabling HPET can cause instabilities when using flash player. When watching a Twitch Stream or a YT video my PC could just freeze with the audio looping a small portion of the displayed audio. Reenabling HPET solved these issues, I uninstalled flash player and noticed that Chrome can still play Twitch streams even without Flash installed, Firefox however can't. I'm guessing Chrome has some built in media thingy?


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> @r0ach, I wanted to add something you might want to add in the main post. Disabling HPET can cause instabilities when using flash player. When watching a Twitch Stream or a YT video my PC could just freeze with the audio looping a small portion of the displayed audio. Reenabling HPET solved these issues, I uninstalled flash player and noticed that Chrome can still play Twitch streams even without Flash installed, Firefox however can't. I'm guessing Chrome has some built in media thingy?


Chrome has Flashplayer built in. Uninstalling the regular flash player from control panel would not remove it.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> Chrome has Flashplayer built in. Uninstalling the regular flash player from control panel would not remove it.


Using Chrome hasn't caused any chrashes for me. I guess I have to leave my trusty Firefox for now


----------



## r0ach

I've never had a crash related to HPET on or off ever. There used to be some motherboards that would crash with it turned on, but I've never seen any not work with it off.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I've never had a crash related to HPET on or off ever. There used to be some motherboards that would crash with it turned on, but I've never seen any not work with it off.


But have you watched a Twitch stream for 3 hours straight?


----------



## erobuR

I have also never experienced crashes with HPET ON or OFF. It's just, things seem more stabile and feel when it is ON but slower. It feels like my rig is doublechecking his thoughts before telling it to me when it is ON. But when set to OFF, he goes all in and even flaming sometimes, in a fast way of course.


----------



## fasti

I can't see any mention of "timer resolution" here, it supposed to force the programs to not rest so much. Shouldn't this help with the whole systems latency?

Or maybe it's only helpful if you are not so ~hardcore on reducing system latency or have to use some programs that are causing issues to latency.
Quote:


> I'm told one of the uses for TimerResolution is to help reduce DPC Latency on Windows. This is supposed to improve performance of many games and applications.
> 
> I suspect that all that is really happening is that some poorly written drivers are getting a boost.


edit: Ah there was a post, but can't see anyone responding to it.


----------



## Scorpion667

@r0ach I'm happy to report that my Samsung wonder RAM seems to be stable at 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24 with stock subtimings at 1.45v. Thanks for the tip, didn't think it would work this well with stock subtimings. Guess I over complicated it in my head
I'll try 7-8-7 next

My old 3930k couldn't even boot into windows at 1600 CL7 so it must be that my current one has a better (read: not crippled) IMC

Could be placebo but the system feels snappier overall, when compared to my usual 2133 10-10-10-24 setup

Gonna try disabling HT next


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> I can't see any mention of "timer resolution" here, it supposed to force the programs to not rest so much. Shouldn't this help with the whole systems latency?
> 
> Or maybe it's only helpful if you are not so ~hardcore on reducing system latency or have to use some programs that are causing issues to latency.
> edit: Ah there was a post, but can't see anyone responding to it.


Im pretty sure i linked the revised version he made, that runs as a service at all times, at some point in here









..good luck finding it though.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> @r0ach I'm happy to report that my Samsung wonder RAM seems to be stable at 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24 with stock subtimings at 1.45v. Thanks for the tip, didn't think it would work this well with stock subtimings. Guess I over complicated it in my head
> I'll try 7-8-7 next
> 
> My old 3930k couldn't even boot into windows at 1600 CL7 so it must be that my current one has a better (read: not crippled) IMC
> 
> Could be placebo but the system feels snappier overall, when compared to my usual 2133 10-10-10-24 setup
> 
> Gonna try disabling HT next


I bet it is the placebo effect. you have of course improved the latency by about 7%, but that should not be that obvious.

I currently have 2400MHz CL11 RAM. that's only slightly less latent than your 2133 CL10 sticks. i'll try tightening the timings and see.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> I can't see any mention of "timer resolution" here, it supposed to force the programs to not rest so much. Shouldn't this help with the whole systems latency?
> 
> Or maybe it's only helpful if you are not so ~hardcore on reducing system latency or have to use some programs that are causing issues to latency.
> edit: Ah there was a post, but can't see anyone responding to it.


don't games do this automatically? i tried Crysis 3 and it lowered resolution to 1ms.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> I bet it is the placebo effect. you have of course improved the latency by about 7%, but that should not be that obvious.
> 
> I currently have 2400MHz CL11 RAM. that's only slightly less latent than your 2133 CL10 sticks. i'll try tightening the timings and see.
> don't games do this automatically? i tried Crysis 3 and it lowered resolution to 1ms.


The service he made locks it to 500µs

It used to pay for it, but he gave it out for free now.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> The service he made locks it to 500µs
> 
> It used to pay for it, but he gave it out for free now.


but does that make a noticeable difference? 0.5ms vs 1ms that is.

on another note, can someone recommend me a great low latency keyboard with onboard memory that has few "gaming" keys on the left hand edge? my G15 is ok, but LGS is utter crap and i don't run it so cannot make use of the features of it.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> I bet it is the placebo effect. you have of course improved the latency by about 7%, but that should not be that obvious.
> 
> I currently have 2400MHz CL11 RAM. that's only slightly less latent than your 2133 CL10 sticks


It isn't placebo. 1600mhz is a 100:100 memory ratio and the others are 133:100. I'm not really sure why there's a noticeable difference in cas9 and cas7 as well, but there is. As I posted earlier, I couldn't notice much difference changing those settings with HPET turned on, but it becomes a lot easier to notice with it off. HPET seems to add a minimum threshold where you won't be able to notice a lot of setting changes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Im pretty sure i linked the revised version he made, that runs as a service at all times, at some point in here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..good luck finding it though.


Where's the Windows 8 version? I haven't used that program in a long time. Back when I tried it when it first came out, it seemed to make the cursor uncomfortably squirrely, but I think I was using a G9 or something crappy at the time.


----------



## r0ach

*double*


----------



## thizito

My HPET is disabled on bios, and disabled on OS.
But when i use TimerResolution my latency increase to ~30.. If i dont use it is ~5-10

lol?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It isn't placebo. 1600mhz is a 100:100 memory ratio and the others are 133:100. I'm not really sure why there's a noticeable difference in cas9 and cas7 as well, but there is. As I posted earlier, I couldn't notice much difference changing those settings with HPET turned on, but it becomes a lot easier to notice with it off. HPET seems to add a minimum threshold where you won't be able to notice a lot of setting changes.
> Where's the Windows 8 version? I haven't used that program in a long time. Back when I tried it when it first came out, it seemed to make the cursor uncomfortably squirrely, but I think I was using a G9 or something crappy at the time.


http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=376458 (inb4 smite for linking that site, i dunno.)


----------



## thizito

r0ach please answer.. how u see input lag in 344.48?
Im actually in a top team in csgo, most likely #2 or #3 of my country, i play from home very well
still using g100s but couldnt find good sensor lightweight mouse.. i wish i could have g502 sensor..

BUT

today i double checked my bios and computer for zero input lag optimizations and i tested

340.52 344.60 344.16 344.11 344.48
IDK why my computer looks better with the "bad" 344.48
also good with .11 and .16

also driver latency from nv lowered
it is so hard to notice a difference..

i have 144hz benq 2720z like you, no scaling, native res forever.. play a lot of fast paced games (quake and now reflex prototype)

explain, save me, lord of Optimization, show your proofs plz


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=376458 (inb4 smite for linking that site, i dunno.)


Found a free version of the windowed timer resolution: http://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool

Didn't try it yet. I think most games set this timer manually, so it would probably just be making the desktop feel similar to them. Most games probably don't use a setting as low as 0.5 either, so it might feel a lot different than normal by going that low.. If you want to see what lower timer resolution feels like, all you really have to do is open a video with Windows Media player and it will probably be 1ms while that's running.


----------



## Anusha

I couldn't test much but my 2400MHz CL11 sticks are capable of doing 1600MHz CL7. Currently at 7-8-8-24. Didn't have much time to play with the settings last night. Probably can do better. Will try tonight and report.


----------



## error-id10t

Using that program r0ach just linked above it shows I'm @ 15.625ms browsing via IE. When I launch a video via Media Player it drops to 5.0009ms. When I launch Origin to start BF4 it drops to 1.0009ms. When I launch Steam itself it's using 15.625ms but if I use 3DMark from there as an example it's back to 1.0009ms.

So from what I see it's working as expected, no need to play around.


----------



## Anusha

About RAM though, I found this.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/10

@r0ach
I can run 2400MHz at either 100:100 (24x) or 100:133 (18x), so 2400MHz isn't problematic.
but according to that Anandtech review, 1600 CL7 is better than 2400 CL11. I couldn't run 1T CMD Rate at 2400 CL11, but if I could do that - couldn't check yet - with 1600 CL7, then it is largely beneficial i guess. if i am really lucky, CL6 might be a possibility at the stock 1.65V.

one more thing.
these network shaping apps like Cfosspeed...they actually add more latency right? the best thing is to stop quite everything that is using the network while gaming (Multiplayer that is) right?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> how u see input lag in 344.48?


I didn't say 344.48 had input lag. There's an Nvidia driver bug in newer drivers where if you change any setting in the resolution tab or scaling tab, the mouse becomes much looser/faster until you uninstall the driver then reinstall it again. You can avoid that problem by just changing the scaling tab to "Display - No scaling", then uninstall the driver, reinstall it, and never touch the setting again.

The problem is that with 344.48, I was getting that bug without changing anything in those tabs. 344.11 is probably the best driver at the moment due to those issues.

Dont forget you have to disable the insane lag device known as Nvidia Virtual Audio in device manager every time you reinstall drivers:



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> still using g100s but couldnt find good sensor lightweight mouse.. i wish i could have g502 sensor..


If you can use the lower PCS of a G100s in FPS, you would probably do even better with an MLT04. The only other option for light, ambidextrous mice is either Kana v2, Zowie FK, or G302. The G402 handles worse than G100s to me, so not sure how G302 will be. My wrist feels too strained after about an hour of gaming on G502 myself from the huge weight, but it is a good sensor.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> @r0ach
> I can run 2400MHz at either 100:100 (24x) or 100:133 (18x), so 2400MHz isn't problematic.


Only problem there is 2400mhz will probably burn out the Ivy Bridge IMC eventually, and there's not really any good Haswell boards that let you turn off HPET and USB3. I bought an ASrock Z87 Extreme 4 solely because it lets you turn off all that stuff, yet when I turn HPET off in the BIOS, it stays enabled, so the setting actually does nothing.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Only problem there is 2400mhz will probably burn out the Ivy Bridge IMC eventually, and there's not really any good Haswell boards that let you turn off HPET and USB3. I bought an ASrock Z87 Extreme 4 solely because it lets you turn off all that stuff, yet when I turn HPET off in the BIOS, it stays enabled, so the setting actually does nothing.


Ah you have an IvyBridge. OK.

How do you confirm that HPET is actually turned off after turning it off in the BIOS? I have the Maximus VII Gene board btw.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Found a free version of the windowed timer resolution: http://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool
> 
> Didn't try it yet. I think most games set this timer manually, so it would probably just be making the desktop feel similar to them. Most games probably don't use a setting as low as 0.5 either, so it might feel a lot different than normal by going that low.. If you want to see what lower timer resolution feels like, all you really have to do is open a video with Windows Media player and it will probably be 1ms while that's running.


not sure why anyone would run a seperate app instead of the one that runs as a service at all times, if you wanted to do this, just saying.

the guy that made the service also explains a bit about what it does, entire thread does.

Anyhow, you asked for it


----------



## M0rb1d

What do you think about installing USB 3.0 drivers for Windows 7? I'm using a MSI Z97m motherboard and it's missing these if I do not install 2 different USB 3.0 drivers:



I notice that when I install the drivers my keyboard takes longer to "start up" at the login screen. When I do not install them I can type my password as soon as the screen pops up, if I install them I have to wait 3 seconds.

Somehow I have to install 2 different USB 3.0 controller drivers, 1 from Intel and 1 from ASMedia.


----------



## r0ach

So after testing out a few 970 GTX cards, the EVGA FTW card is probably my favorite one. The Gigabyte and MSI both have 4 phase power controllers but run in 3 phase mode with 2 phases in parallel each for a total of pseudo-6, while the EVGA actually runs 4 in 4 phase mode. The gigabyte also has an active display port to DVI controller built into the card and has some other weird issues. If you're scared about having something strange on a card that might effect mouse movement, you probably don't want the Gigabyte.

The EVGA 970 FTW stock BIOS has severe TDP throttling issues, which causes excess tearing and stutter, but I made a modded BIOS for it that does nothing except raise TDP limits, and now frames run as smooth as you can possibly get:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522035/evga-970-ftw-tdp-issues-requires-bios-mod-to-fix

So my current favorite 970 card to minimize possible strange issues is probably the EVGA FTW after BIOS fix for TDP.

It has coil whine on menus at 4000 FPS, but not in actual games, so that part doesn't really bother me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> Ah you have an IvyBridge. OK.
> 
> How do you confirm that HPET is actually turned off after turning it off in the BIOS? I have the Maximus VII Gene board btw.


It will show up in device manager if still on.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M0rb1d*
> 
> Somehow I have to install 2 different USB 3.0 controller drivers, 1 from Intel and 1 from ASMedia.


Pretty sure you can't disable USB3 on MSI boards now, but you should be able to disable the ASmedia controller.....


----------



## thizito

I have three wmo (MLT04) x08 9000fps.. i have g1 mouse, for me is the perfect mice shape


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> I have three wmo (MLT04) x08 9000fps.. i have g1 mouse, for me is the perfect mice shape


Resolution is going up fast. In a few years, mainstream LCD screens will be crazy looking stuff like this 34" 3440x1440 21:9 where a MLT04 will move the cursor a millimeter on the screen if you throw it.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Resolution is going up fast. In a few years, mainstream LCD screens will be crazy looking stuff like this 34" 3440x1440 21:9 where a MLT04 will move the cursor a millimeter on the screen if you throw it.


I'm using 2 1080p monitors at native res next to each other with no problems at all using my 400 dpi.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Resolution is going up fast. In a few years, mainstream LCD screens will be crazy looking stuff like this 34" 3440x1440 21:9 where a MLT04 will move the cursor a millimeter on the screen if you throw it.


EXTRA EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT!.

Do you feel tired?, are you not facing everything?, is YOUR EYES TIRED FROM LOOKING UP OR DOWN IN GAME?!

Buy this new fancy 98" monitor! - now at SU-SU-SUPER H-H-H-HD 6k RESOLUTION!.

That old mouse feeling slow and imprecise?, Yooooure in luck!, for a combo deal of only two kidneys and a liver -YOU- can be the fancy new owner of the G502 1337 edition pr0, comes in gold, silver, and if youre good, DIAMONDS, yes DIAMONDS, to transfer your fingerprints faster than ever!

Limited stock may apply, ORDER NOW!

"I was just so slow with my 400dpi mouse that i HAD to have this, now i make the players leave because i own the actual server, and kick them with skill." - Some pro gamer that got paid.

r0ach confirmed for using 12000 dpi on the G502 leet edition pr0

-- DISCLAIMER-- Some of this post may or may not be made up.

Also, no backsies.


----------



## thizito

Thats true, i already feel problematic the ~400dpi from wmo (i back to use wmo yesterday overclocked 500hz)
on my 2720z 27" 1080p it feels low dpi XD


----------



## r0ach

If you look on my original post of this thread, it currently has eight services to disable for Windows. I had long known that just those eight did not come close to hitting the maximum response threshold of Windows, so I decided to do some testing on just how much you have to get rid of to hit that threshold. In addition to the eight services in the original post, I disabled every single other service that isn't required to run a gaming PC that isn't part of a homegroup to do the test and somewhere along the line hit that point.

Here are the service changes I set off to test. I'm still doing trial and error to determine which ones are neglible effect, and which ones are required to hit the response threshold of Windows 8.1:

disabled maintenance in action center (check for solutions to problem reports should be disabled also)
security center service
windows firewall off in windows control panel and in services menu
workstation service
ip helper
WinHttpAutoProxySvc
Windows Font Cache Service
background intelligent transfer service (set to manual and not disabled because it's needed for Windows update)
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper
SSDP Discovery
server
Diagnostic Policy Service
Distributed Link Tracking Client
Network Connection Broker
Shell Hardware Detection

Haven't had any problem yet even with all of that disabled. Close to half of the services are related to homegroup networking or networked PCs in general. It shows you how badly Windows needs a gaming boot mode to start in barebones setting.


----------



## Anusha

NVidia drivers version 344.65 are out.

Are these recommended?


----------



## Scorpion667

I'm having a minor issue on my low DPC config.

I play League of Legends sometimes and I noticed once I disabled HT, I get one big stutter per match, at the beginning. It's good until the next game when it stutters once, again. I have no other anomalies in anything else lol.

Setup:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



CPU 4.2Ghz fixed
RAM 1600Mhz CL7

Disabled:
-C-States
-EIST
-all power saving VRM settings like switching voltage etc, all set to max/extreme
-HPET
-PCI-E 3.0 (I force 2.0, SB-E has signaling issues on 3.0)
-asmedia usb3+sata controllers
-onboard nic (intel dedicated card)
-onboard bluetooth
-onboard audio (dedicated sound card)
-onboard 1394 controller
-windows defender
-all virtualization crap in BIOS

LLC can't be disabled in my Asus mobo. Auto or regular behave the exact same way under both load and idle.

I'm trying to raise RAM voltage slightly as I don't know 100% if the RAM is stable (CPU is however). Used it at 1600 CL7 for 5 days with no issues. Then this single stutter per match started after I disabled HT. So odd!


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I'm trying to raise RAM voltage slightly as I don't know 100% if the RAM is stable


This is clearly the problem. Don't know what else you want people to tell you.


----------



## Scorpion667

What do you mean? The issue goes away when HT is enabled. I can reproduce this consistently

I'll try on my 2133 CL10 setup as that is bulletproof stable. If disabling HT still does it then, I'll just leave it enabled. Never had problems with it on


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> What do you mean? The issue goes away when HT is enabled. I can reproduce this consistently


100% sure?


----------



## Anusha

I don't know about IvyBridge, but on my Haswell CPU, 2400MHz CL11 2T RAM performs better than 1600 CL7 1T. I thought the latter would be faster but it isn't. This is in terms of raw performance in games and other applications.

However, in terms of latency, I didn't notice any difference. Both speeds permit 100:100 ratio.


----------



## Conditioned

Speaking of 344.65, I would be very curious as to which driver you are using at any given time.


----------



## Oczoq5445

Edit: delete


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Guys is this normal?
> 
> Running win 8.1 64 bit. I tried following this guide and uninstalled some things. but was same result.


latencymon drivers tab name the top 3 things off the list

post system specs and config


----------



## Oczoq5445

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> latencymon drivers tab name the top 3 things off the list
> 
> post system specs and config


latencymon:
1: nvlddmkm.sys (version 344.11)
1: USBPORT.sys
3: ndis.sys / tcpip.sys ( they kinda swap places for the third place)

System specs:
OS: Windows 8.1 Pro - CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (at 4,400 MHz) - Memory usage: 2231/8160 MB (27%) - Graphics: nVidia GeForce GTX 670 (1920x1080x32bit 144Hz)

What do you mean by config?


----------



## Conditioned

Dpc latency checker doesnt show correct settings in 8/8.1.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Dpc latency checker doesnt show correct settings in 8/8.1.


Oh yeah, I forgot. You can't use this in 8/8.1.
Go off what latencymon says under Main, top most bar


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## catacavaco

What am I doing wrong ? Windows 7, only few updates installed (the ones I needed), signature PC, no flash/other crappy software installed, HPET disabled, nvidia HDMI disabled, Display - No Scaling, Legacy USB support disabled

I blame nvidia and their drivers







, any clues of what might be causing that all those 500-999µs values (which seem all to be related to the nvidia driver and directx ???

Code:



Code:


REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              621,113757
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.48 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,037213
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         ndis.sys - NDIS 6.20 driver, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0,168977

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   1694580
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                61
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0


----------



## Dylan Nails

@r0ach since you found out the reason xl2720z was laggy because of nvidia, can you get a new z series benq with blur reduction on and test it for the input lag?


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Guys im currently r0aching my computer.
> 
> I disabled c1e / c3 / c6 in bios and also cpu termal monitoring.
> 
> I was a bit worried when disabling the thermal thing. But I read somewhere that it doesnt affect the Internal cpu throttle anyway.. So it will still shut down if it reaches dangerous temperatures. Is this true? Im using i5 2500k on asus p8z68-v pro


You can set your Realtemp to:
1)Start with WIndows
2) Shut down PC when a certain CPU temperature is reached.

I've been using this for over a year and my PC survived two watercooling pump failures =)
I'll teach you how to do it when I get home from work

So r0aching is a thing now?


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> thx but I dont really need that.
> Only need to know if i5 2500k has a built in function that shuts it down after reaching dangerous temps.. or if it just melts if this bios setting is disabled.


regardless of any motherboard settings, if the CPU is exposed to very high heat (> 85c) for extended periods it will eventually degrade, requiring more voltage to be stable at the same clock speed. The cpu starts throttling at 95c


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> If you care about input lag, why even use blur reduction it adds a bit of input lag compared to not using it. You still have ghosting, and motion blur is not really a problem on benqs xlz series anyway.. So by not using blur reduction you get:
> 
> eyes that dont hurt because of strobe flickering.
> less input lag.
> brigher display.
> 
> Edit: I didnt mean to quote you 3 times.


what do you mean brighter display, does the blur reduction force you to use a less brightness?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> NVidia drivers version 344.65 are out.
> 
> Are these recommended?


Best 970 GTX driver for me is still 344.11 and 344.16 (using 344.16 at the moment). 344.48 had some weird issue with mouse movement where 800 DPI for me felt way faster than it should and accuracy went out the window. It wasn't a reduction in latency, it was just plain erroneous movement. On my original post it talks about how if you change any setting in the scaling tab (or resolution tab on some drivers), mouse movement goes to crap until you uninstall then reinstall the driver (your scaling choice will be saved and be problem free after reinstall). This weird mouse movement from messing with the scaling tab felt like it affected 344.48 drivers without touching any of those settings.

344.60 fixed that issue, but now cursor movement in 344.60 and 344.65 is not as twitchy as 344.11 and 344.16. It's not super bad cursor movement like a lot of older Nvidia drivers, but it's definitely not as good as 344.11 and 344.16. I think most of these current issues are due to ManuelG, master of destroying drivers, tinkering around with Gsync.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> @r0ach since you found out the reason xl2720z was laggy because of nvidia, can you get a new z series benq with blur reduction on and test it for the input lag?


I'll have to test a BenQ 2720z with 344.11 or 344.16 drivers sometime. I tested it originally with 344.48 drivers, so accuracy was out the window. Even with that messed up Nvidia driver, it wasn't hard to tell that BenQ's implementation of overdrive causes a lot of lag. ULMB mode adds some more on top of that, but it didn't seem like nearly as much as the actual overdrive did.

I really doubt these websites claiming BenQ's input lag is 1-2ms are accurate. It really felt like I was pushing in the high teens or low 20's with AMA and ULMB mode on, even with directmode turned on as well. All the review websites just give you a flat input lag number for this monitor without even specifying if AMA or ULMB or DDC/CI is turned on or off.

As for image quality on BenQ 2720z, the contrast ratio seemed decently high, but the black level was worse than a Samsung P2770 I have sitting around, which is the first 27" TN panel ever released. Samsung TN panels tend to have richer colors than AU as well. They should be releasing 144hz AU IPS panels relatively soon. I'll probably get one of those on day one.


----------



## Dylan Nails

why dont u get the 24 inch version instead, 27 inch 1080p is pretty bad? also i saw your thread about g-sync being bad, have you tested a g-sync monitor in person to confirm it forces GPU - no scaling? or tested one for input lag with gsync on?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> have you tested a g-sync monitor in person to confirm it forces GPU - no scaling? or tested one for input lag with gsync on?


All Gsync panels force GPU-No Scaling except for possibly the BenQ 2420G due to having dual circuitry. If you use the 2420G in normal or ULMB mode, you can probably use Display-No Scaling, but if you switch to Gsync, it's going to probably send you back to GPU-No Scaling.

I'm not sure of the input lag ramifications of using GPU-No Scaling with gsync. It's possible that it isn't laggy using it like it is with a normal monitor, but I haven't tried on yet. I really do not have faith in ManuelG to do anything beneficial with Nvidia drivers. Adding "Nvidia Virtual Audio" to device manager, which causes huge input lag if not disabled, for people that down even own Nvidia shields, was a prime example of the Nvidia driver team just not having a damn clue.


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> All Gsync panels force GPU-No Scaling except for possibly the BenQ 2420G due to having dual circuitry. If you use the 2420G in normal or ULMB mode, you can probably use Display-No Scaling, but if you switch to Gsync, it's going to probably send you back to GPU-No Scaling.
> 
> I'm not sure of the input lag ramifications of using GPU-No Scaling with gsync. It's possible that it isn't laggy using it like it is with a normal monitor, but I haven't tried on yet. I really do not have faith in ManuelG to do anything beneficial with Nvidia drivers. Adding "Nvidia Virtual Audio" to device manager, which causes huge input lag if not disabled, for people that down even own Nvidia shields, was a prime example of the Nvidia driver team just not having a damn clue.


i have nvidia high definition audio and nvidia virtual audio device (wave extensible) (WDM) under device managers, should i uninstall both? also which blur reduction technology does xl2420g use, nvidia's ULMB or benq's blur reduction?


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Yes screen becomes much darker. I had 100% brightness on my benq xl2420z when using blur reduction. And it was ok in brightness.
> Turning off blur reduction I now have my display at 50% because 100% would be way too bright.
> 
> I like to have low brightness so for me its not a problem. But it might be for others.


Or.. do the VT trick which fixes that problem.


----------



## xD4rkFire

r0ach, have you ever looked into using the CMD prompt to disable HPET from within Windows in conjunction with disable HPET in the BIOS?

http://www.gearbytes.com/2012/08/dpc-tweaking-guide-for-av-gaming/
Quote:


> You can enable HPET via command line:
> 
> Enable: bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> Disable: bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## Oczoq5445

delete ty


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> This is how it looks now. kinda few intalled apps. Tried to keep everything as clean as possible basically. For nvidia drivers. Only installed the drivers and nothing else.. no virtual audio or such.
> 
> but the top bar varies alot so.. Doesnt really say much.. it goes from like 15 -100 but usually around 10-20
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/lEet91n.png
> 
> But Im also running speedstep so. Maybe it doesnt provide a good picture with that..
> Not sure if I want to run the cpu at 4.4 ghz 24/7.


I use mine at 4.2 fixed and I can't notice a difference from 4.7


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Yes it fixes it but then you cant use scaling. For example cs go stretched 4:3 like many pros are using is not an option for you anymore. If you dont need this, then go for it.
> But overall blur reduction is worse than not using it in my opinion.
> My eyes really didnt like it, they got clearly annoyed. This feature feels a bit overhyped.. I was really enthusiastic about it at first when I got this monitor as well. Omg this is the best thing ever.. but no..


hmm didn't know this, I don't do that but yes the Blur Reduction has problems. Anything less than 80Hz and it flickers horribly so need to keep it up.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Yes screen becomes much darker. I had 100% brightness on my benq xl2420z when using blur reduction. And it was ok in brightness.
> Turning off blur reduction I now have my display at 50% because 100% would be way too bright.
> 
> I like to have low brightness so for me its not a problem. But it might be for others.


http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/ on this website for the monitors that have PWM-free by them
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> hmm didn't know this, I don't do that but yes the Blur Reduction has problems. Anything less than 80Hz and it flickers horribly so need to keep it up.


you're supposed to use 144hz though. why would you choose 80hz when you have a 144hz monitor


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/ on this website for the monitors that have PWM-free by them
> you're supposed to use 144hz though. why would you choose 80hz when you have a 144hz monitor


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> well I used 144hz and it still hurt.
> Thx but im not looking for a monitor and I already have the PWM free xl2420z . And am very happy with it.. I just dont use blur reduction since its not needed.
> 
> We should probably get back on topic as monitor settings probably should be dicussed elswhere.


the quote thing messed up, i said "you're supposed to use 144hz though. why would you choose 80hz when you have a 144hz monitor". would be dumb to use 80hz on a 144hz monitor


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> the quote thing messed up, i said "you're supposed to use 144hz though. why would you choose 80hz when you have a 144hz monitor". would be dumb to use 80hz on a 144hz monitor


What's "dumb" is to assume 144Hz is the right choice for you. If you can't game at that refresh rate and you're hitting 100fps here with drops to 80fps then all you're doing is hurting yourself.

If you have a 980 SLI as an example, sure max it out as you'll probably hit 144fps 99% of time. The other option of course is to drop settings to so you do hit that 144fps but I like my candy.

The point about 80hz was that for ME, that's the point when Blur Reduction flicker becomes unbearable. With my 780TI Classy I was using 100Hz which as fine and now I'm waiting for my 970 SLI and expect to have 120hz = 120fps 99% of time at least.


----------



## superV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> What's "dumb" is to assume 144Hz is the right choice for you. If you can't game at that refresh rate and you're hitting 100fps here with drops to 80fps then all you're doing is hurting yourself.
> 
> If you have a 980 SLI as an example, sure max it out as you'll probably hit 144fps 99% of time. The other option of course is to drop settings to so you do hit that 144fps but I like my candy.
> 
> The point about 80hz was that for ME, that's the point when Blur Reduction flicker becomes unbearable. With my 780TI Classy I was using 100Hz which as fine and now I'm waiting for my 970 SLI and expect to have 120hz = 120fps 99% of time at least.


very smart,need to try.on my eizo frame drops just kills me.with old games like 140fps+ runs extremely smooth,but with the new one's my el cheapo does like 60 fps and is terrible.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> What's "dumb" is to assume 144Hz is the right choice for you. If you can't game at that refresh rate and you're hitting 100fps here with drops to 80fps then all you're doing is hurting yourself.
> 
> If you have a 980 SLI as an example, sure max it out as you'll probably hit 144fps 99% of time. The other option of course is to drop settings to so you do hit that 144fps but I like my candy.
> 
> The point about 80hz was that for ME, that's the point when Blur Reduction flicker becomes unbearable. With my 780TI Classy I was using 100Hz which as fine and now I'm waiting for my 970 SLI and expect to have 120hz = 120fps 99% of time at least.


its dumb because if you're not using 144hz you might as well use IPS which can probably overclock to 80hz anyways.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> its dumb because if you're not using 144hz you might as well use IPS which can probably overclock to 80hz anyways.


IPS has all sorts of lag problems that aren't just related to the refresh rate, and 80Hz is quite the stretch. Outside those popular Korean panels, I doubt any standard 60Hz panel can do it.


----------



## Dylan Nails

ive asked 2 people with gsync monitors and they both say you cant use Display - no scaling. hopefully one day you get one and see if it has input lag


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> i have nvidia high definition audio and nvidia virtual audio device (wave extensible) (WDM) under device managers, should i uninstall both?


I disable the HDMI audio on the GPU and Nvidia virtual audio in device manager as well. Disabling Nvidia virtual audio makes a pretty large difference in input delay and is used for streaming to external devices from your PC like the Nvidia shield. If you don't stream to an extrenal device, you don't need it. It also turns itself back on each time you install a new driver so you have to disable it again.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> ive asked 2 people with gsync monitors and they both say you cant use Display - no scaling. hopefully one day you get one and see if it has input lag


Someone already posted earlier in this thread claiming that Nvidia would supposedly fix GPU scaling lag "sometime next year" after people who read this thread complained to them about it.


----------



## propanity

edit


----------



## Anusha

I don't get the No Scaling - Display Option on my control panel. Is it because my display, the Qnix QX2710 doesn't have a scalar in it?



Edit: oops my bad. Read the first post again. That is the reason.


----------



## Oczoq5445

Edit: delete


----------



## chace90

Which driver is the miracle driver anyway?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> I don't get the No Scaling - Display Option on my control panel. Is it because my display, the Qnix QX2710 doesn't have a scalar in it?
> 
> Edit: oops my bad. Read the first post again. That is the reason.


I also have a Korean IPS with no internal scaler and the only way to get normal mouse movement out of it is running 267.59 driver on a Fermi or earlier series GPU with the "no scaling" option checked before the scaling tab was rewritten. This is why I don't use that monitor right now on my main PC at all.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Like *turbo boost*, if I disable this I cant overclock my cpu, no way I give up 1ghz + to disable this.


You don't need turbo boost enabled to overclock a CPU on any motherboard I own. Unless you're using a non-k series CPU?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> also windows defender, is there any good replacement, sometimes I download random .exes and it warns me + ask me to delete it. I dont think I want to disable that.


Windows Defender has pretty noticeable lag on both Windows 7 & 8, but it's far worse on Windows 8 where I don't see how anyone could run with it enabled there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chace90*
> 
> Which driver is the miracle driver anyway?


337.50 is what Nvidia called the "miracle driver". Somewhere around that release is when they finally fixed input lag issues, but I don't know exactly what driver it was. 344.16 is currently the best driver for a 970/980 GTX for cursor response, and probably 344.11 for other cards.


----------



## Crymore13

I'm thinking to format my pc...
I do no have many options on my h61 motherboard.
and I'm think that I'm having an issue with latency, I already make tests with many drivers...(340.52/344.11/344.16/344.48/without driver)

Tests:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Without driver:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:02:51  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8022 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2290,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   530,066322
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3,456275

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       528,255161
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       0,868072

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              13,449292
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       USBPORT.SYS - Driver de Porta USB 1.1 e 2.0, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,018230
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   USBPORT.SYS - Driver de Porta USB 1.1 e 2.0, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,018230

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   28709
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              440,521816
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       ndis.sys - NDIS (Especificação de Interface de Driver de Rede), Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,157133
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0,461882

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   828927
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                13
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 chrome.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       3200
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          2323
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          360370,419811
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,860354
Number of processes hit:                              28

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2,574559
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                13,449292
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,124690
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      28709
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                280,002653
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   1,599127
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      660362
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0,932189
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                440,521816
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,376638
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      89182
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0,378683
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                77,244104
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,022339
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      9229
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1,716058
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                184,217571
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   1,161170
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      70167
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________




340.52 5m52s


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system seems to have difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:06:52  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8022 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2313,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   463,656682
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   6,650636

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       461,543663
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       2,442049

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              202,514741
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,244480
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,330576

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   614630
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              1082,838738
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 340.52 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,765345
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          1,246756

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   2662151
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                51
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              1
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 chrome.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       3433
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          1240
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          373604,186026
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,226824
Number of processes hit:                              22

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       18,547344
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                202,514741
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   5,447890
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      614630
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                1082,838738
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   10,369173
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      2130367
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1,532120
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                192,679835
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,435896
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      157688
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1,021293
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                90,549528
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,061884
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      10267
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       11,705353
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                197,062795
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   9,679587
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      363881
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________




344,11 7h16m


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  7:16:00  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8156 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2234,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3159,130560
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   6,328448

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       3157,314687
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       2,204887

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              352,405660
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,483204
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,666062

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   90367190
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                7
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              1348,009434
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.11 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,784508
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          1,498253

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   196276923
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                2035
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              7
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 avguard.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       223062
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          69962
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          2485630,827241
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,780766
Number of processes hit:                              41

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1583,056548
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                352,405660
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   696,970152
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      90367197
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                1348,009434
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   728,044647
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      161541646
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       201,581976
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                923,466981
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   106,296865
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      7388277
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       809,522311
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                418,492925
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   623,913410
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      22735670
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       196,887064
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                211,561321
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   109,524484
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      4613372
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________




344.16 6m50s


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:06:50  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8022 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2235,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   6145,878895
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3,602561

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       6122,333780
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       0,911199

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              75,865566
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,112761
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,149823

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   269012
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              6134,122052
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       ndis.sys - NDIS (Especificação de Interface de Driver de Rede), Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,230902
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         ndis.sys - NDIS (Especificação de Interface de Driver de Rede), Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0,485254

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   1697781
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                75
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 chrome.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       2397
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          1066
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          409104,718455
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,196723
Number of processes hit:                              14

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       8,332495
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                75,865566
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   2,457201
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      269012
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                6131,928066
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   3,550607
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      1501051
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       5,015521
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                6131,311321
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   3,949795
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      159105
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1,280225
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                6129,584906
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,266452
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      21003
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1,124046
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                6134,122052
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,191623
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      16800
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________




344.48 1h16m


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system seems to have difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  1:16:34  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8022 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2272,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   1319,133779
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   6,264679

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       1317,624472
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       4,316291

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              302,594634
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,468533
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,674977

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   17738453
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                4
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              1321,334021
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.48 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,781788
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          1,552897

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   39083308
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                155
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              1
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 steam.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       30927
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          16358
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          2987425,446344
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,658762
Number of processes hit:                              38

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       390,814074
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                302,594634
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   124,044811
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      17738457
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                1321,334021
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   235,242870
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      36223156
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       19,518418
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                179,381191
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   5,305095
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      1072568
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       13,588939
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                66,615271
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,148537
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      65814
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       63,087319
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                402,641509
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   44,689021
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      1721926
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________




344.48 2m18s


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system seems to have difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:02:18  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8022 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2302,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   902,259815
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3,347528

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       900,750515
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       0,872536

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              91,010613
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       USBPORT.SYS - Driver de Porta USB 1.1 e 2.0, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,123765
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,169773

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   104317
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              1013,862913
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.48 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,067532
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.48 , NVIDIA Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0,333170

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   620946
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                28
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              1
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 chrome.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       805
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          633
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          44494,094634
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,15910
Number of processes hit:                              9

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       3,089308
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                91,010613
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,937146
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      104317
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                1013,862913
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   1,570569
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      527753
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0,734404
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                130,920696
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,224021
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      61747
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0,355114
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                104,860849
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,024689
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      16980
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0,333024
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                87,919222
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,019818
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      14495
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> I'm thinking to format my pc...
> I do no have many options on my h61 motherboard.
> and I'm think that I'm having an issue with latency, I already make tests with many drivers...


Hard to click through it all on here but looks like your ethernet driver is bad. If it's an Intel NIC, try Intel Ethernet 19.0 driver.


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## Crymore13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Hard to click through it all on here but looks like your ethernet driver is bad. If it's an Intel NIC, try Intel Ethernet 19.0 driver.


Intel Ethernet 19.0/Nvidia 344.11 playing cs:go 10minutes deathmatch server 22slots tick64 full:

LatencyMon Tabs:

Main:


Stats: (spoiler, there is too much text.)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:10:00  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        PC-QUARTO
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             INTEL_, Intel Corporation, DH61BE
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors:                                   4
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  8156 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3392,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   2226,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   916,387418
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   5,961114

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       913,803291
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       1,955409

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              78,609670
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0,646289
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0,901344

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   2953861
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              384,432783
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 344.11 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0,796261
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          1,690104

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   5343266
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                13
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 segmenter.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       186
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          47
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          36540,329599
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0,017689
Number of processes hit:                              9

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       43,482115
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                78,609670
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   21,632254
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      2953861
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                384,432783
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   18,674016
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      4417483
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2,425518
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                192,979953
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,733023
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      147559
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       25,202571
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                153,781840
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   21,122063
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      768169
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       1,628476
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0,0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                66,895047
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   0,033395
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      10068
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Processes by Hard Pagefaults:


Drivers by Highest execution (ms):


CPU:


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> I checked again and I really cant overclock at all if im disabling turbo boost. so ..goes straight back to 3.3ghz and .. the multiplier box disappears.
> 
> i5 2500k .. asus p8 z68-v pro .. so its not like this on gigabyte boards?


Um, I have an Asus and Gigabyte Z77 and all you have to do to overclock it is change the setting labeled "multiplier" and then raise the vcore as necessary. No other setting in the universe needs to be turned on.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Um, I have an Asus and Gigabyte Z77 and all you have to do to overclock it is change the setting labeled "multiplier" and then raise the vcore as necessary. No other setting in the universe needs to be turned on.


Different boards work differently. On my ROG board, if I disable Turbo Boost and change the multiplier, Turbo Boost will be automatically re-enabled. What these boards do is actually changing the Turbo Boost multiplier and remove the TDP limits and other conditions so that it would always boost to that multiplier instead.

I don't know if some boards do it differently.


----------



## erobuR

Disabling *Energy Efficient Ethernet* and *Green Ethernet* options of ethernet card helps.


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> sorry my bad.. Its possible to run oc and disable turbo I just didnt find the setting first.


You can? On my board, Turbo Boost automatically hot re-enabled when I set a multiplier manually.


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## xD4rkFire

If you still use the Sound Blaster Z driverless, does the headphone jack work for you? I'm currently using the SBZ without drivers and when I plug my headphones in, the headphone jack doesn't work but the speaker out jack does.


----------



## r0ach

Large post I just made:

*Why your USB keyboard might be gimping your mouse in several different ways*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1525170/why-your-usb-keyboard-might-be-gimping-your-mouse-in-several-different-ways


----------



## catacavaco

Hey guys I got really curious about this DPC latency thing and how (in my case) is the nvidia driver that has those huge 600 microseconds spikes, i figured why not testing a R9 290 instead, asked a friend to bring it over and so far im really impressed how the ATI kernel is not even on the TOP 5 DPC troublemakers according to LatencyMon.

Will do some more testing with it and the gtx670 to see if its really the nvidia card or i screwed something up









Ps.: Seriously thinking about going red next gen...


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Hey guys I got really curious about this DPC latency thing and how (in my case) is the nvidia driver that has those huge 600 microseconds spikes, i figured why not testing a R9 290 instead, asked a friend to bring it over and so far im really impressed how the ATI kernel is not even on the TOP 5 DPC troublemakers according to LatencyMon.
> 
> Will do some more testing with it and the gtx670 to see if its really the nvidia card or i screwed something up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps.: Seriously thinking about going red next gen...


Yeah, I noticed that comparing my 5770 and 660ti a while back. Problem is, Nvidia has been crushing AMD so much that it seems unlikely they will be able to offer something compelling enough to justify it. Older games felt noticeably smoother and responsive despite using a card with half the computing power.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Hey guys I got really curious about this DPC latency thing and how (in my case) is the nvidia driver that has those huge 600 microseconds spikes, i figured why not testing a R9 290 instead, asked a friend to bring it over and so far im really impressed how the ATI kernel is not even on the TOP 5 DPC troublemakers according to LatencyMon.
> 
> Will do some more testing with it and the gtx670 to see if its really the nvidia card or i screwed something up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps.: Seriously thinking about going red next gen...


It's probably because the AMD card operates in MSI mode instead of line interrupt. You can force the Nvidia to use MSI mode as well by enabling it in the registry. I did some testing of MSI mode on vs off. Mouse movement has the basic, normal feel with it off, and feels slightly different with it on. It wasn't a huge difference, but I seem to prefer line-based interrupt mode more over MSI.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It's probably because the AMD card operates in MSI mode instead of line interrupt. You can force the Nvidia to use MSI mode as well by enabling it in the registry. I did some testing of MSI mode on vs off. Mouse movement has the basic, normal feel with it off, and feels slightly different with it on. It wasn't a huge difference, but I seem to prefer line-based interrupt mode more over MSI.


That was what i was testing today, changing my GTX670 from line-based to message signaled-based has definitely improved smoothness while playing dota 2, but still the nvidia driver manages to hold its ~500 microsecond crazyness
Maybe that has something to do with the kepler boost fiddling all the time, now looking for a way to disable it (if that is possible) to test if a non variable clock reduces dpc latency.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> That was what i was testing today, changing my GTX670 from line-based to message signaled-based has definitely improved smoothness while playing dota 2, but still the nvidia driver manages to hold its ~500 microsecond crazyness
> Maybe that has something to do with the kepler boost fiddling all the time, now looking for a way to disable it (if that is possible) to test if a non variable clock reduces dpc latency.


Its doable to have it on max boost at all times, you can do it with maxwell for sure.

Also think i found the thread for kepler cards, but youll have to read through it yourself.

Heres a related topic for kepler: http://www.overclock.net/t/1474548/kepler-bios-tweaker-1-27-basics-for-those-previous-users-who-want-to-know-what-it-means

And because r0ach might ask, heres the topic for maxwell; http://www.overclock.net/t/1522651/disable-boost-and-bake-in-max-game-stable-clocks-for-maxwell-ii


----------



## r0ach

I already flashed my EVGA 970 FTW to increase TDP limit from 170w/187w to 220w/242w. The card is useless without doing so due to the throttling and increase chop/stutter, but It's my favorite 970 card out once done:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522035/evga-970-ftw-tdp-issues-requires-bios-mod-to-fix

The EVGA 970 feels very similar to the 570 GTX reference card for mouse movement, while the Gigabyte 970 was a bit different. I haven't looked much into disabling boost because I was too busy fixing TDP issues, but I'm not sure if boost is even disabled doing that. You're probably just forcing constant P0 power state for everything while boost still stays enabled. I'm not sure if there's any way to actually check if it's truly on or off.......


----------



## CookieBook

@r0ach, have you ever used any of the 700 series cards?


----------



## Dylan Nails

i heard most 970s including evga's have coil whine, does yours?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> @r0ach, have you ever used any of the 700 series cards?


No
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> i heard most 970s including evga's have coil whine, does yours?


Has coil whine on menus where FPS is 4000 and on games with FPS over 300, but not on anything else. If you load up League of Legends on it, the thing will coil whine for the first 10 seconds of the game then stops and goes silent while FPS goes up and down from 250-300.

The only normal game I've played on it that has continuous coil whine is Borderlands The Pre-Sequel. That's at 1080p with no AA. You could always turn on 4-16x AA to instantly kill that coil whine if you wanted lol.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> No
> Has coil whine on menus where FPS is 4000 and on games with FPS over 300, but not on anything else. If you load up League of Legends on it, the thing will coil whine for the first 10 seconds of the game then stops and goes silent while FPS goes up and down from 250-300.
> 
> The only normal game I've played on it that has continuous coil whine is Borderlands The Pre-Sequel. That's at 1080p with no AA. You could always turn on 4-16x AA to instantly kill that coil whine if you wanted lol.


how do you find out how many fps u have on menus, and what menus?


----------



## paskanmyivat

Any idea why my mouse movement feels off in CS:GO? Game also stutters and i've been trying to troubleshoot what is causing it.

LatencyMon screens

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz 1.31v
XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers
8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory
2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K with csgo installation)
XFX 550W Core Edition ATX-power
BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz

running cs:go with 1600x900 all low, 4x msaa.

Those LatencyMon screens are from 40minutes session on Desktop, mostly browsing internet + youtube song in background. Is it the external soundcard that causes the stuttering? Or is that interrupt cycle time for CPU 0 normal?

Attached LatencyMon logfile below, thanks for anyone who could help.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:41:00 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: SNOOPLION-PC
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: Z87P-D3, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Logical processors: 8
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 8136 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 3491,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 4599,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 5094,253364
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 4,918224

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 535,172254
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 3,614387

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 311,543397
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: ataport.SYS - ATAPI Driver Extension, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0,009173
Driver with highest ISR total time: ataport.SYS - ATAPI Driver Extension, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0,025480

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 3636094
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 5
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 539,944142
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0,229875
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0,421569

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 24833975
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 80
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: chrome.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 4637
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 1265
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 224386,357777
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0,033849
Number of processes hit: 29

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 114,886921
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 311,543397
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 5,015184
CPU 0 ISR count: 3636099
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 539,944142
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 76,097796
CPU 0 DPC count: 21404238
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,427187
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 203,547408
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0,402264
CPU 1 DPC count: 62315
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 11,154163
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 193,506732
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0,421577
CPU 2 DPC count: 201066
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,558414
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 150,430822
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0,488733
CPU 3 DPC count: 50391
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 11,742004
CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 4 ISR count: 0
CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 221,966772
CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 3,460667
CPU 4 DPC count: 2266693
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,298474
CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 5 ISR count: 0
CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 209,928960
CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 0,278913
CPU 5 DPC count: 32558
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 6 Interrupt cycle time (s): 12,709484
CPU 6 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 6 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 6 ISR count: 0
CPU 6 DPC highest execution time (µs): 136,655686
CPU 6 DPC total execution time (s): 1,526329
CPU 6 DPC count: 773850
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 7 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,578264
CPU 7 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 7 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 7 ISR count: 0
CPU 7 DPC highest execution time (µs): 122,364652
CPU 7 DPC total execution time (s): 0,298783
CPU 7 DPC count: 42944
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Any idea why my mouse movement feels off in CS:GO? Game also stutters and i've been trying to troubleshoot what is causing it.
> 
> LatencyMon screens
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
> i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz 1.31v
> XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers
> 8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory
> 2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K with csgo installation)
> XFX 550W Core Edition ATX-power
> BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
> 
> running cs:go with 1600x900 all low, 4x msaa.
> 
> Those LatencyMon screens are from 40minutes session on Desktop, mostly browsing internet + youtube song in background. Is it the external soundcard that causes the stuttering? Or is that interrupt cycle time for CPU 0 normal?
> 
> Attached LatencyMon logfile below, thanks for anyone who could help.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CONCLUSION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
> LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:41:00 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> SYSTEM INFORMATION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Computer name: SNOOPLION-PC
> OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
> Hardware: Z87P-D3, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
> CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
> Logical processors: 8
> Processor groups: 1
> RAM: 8136 MB total
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU SPEED
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Reported CPU speed: 3491,0 MHz
> Measured CPU speed: 4599,0 MHz (approx.)
> 
> Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 5094,253364
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 4,918224
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 535,172254
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 3,614387
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED ISRs
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.
> 
> Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 311,543397
> Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: ataport.SYS - ATAPI Driver Extension, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0,009173
> Driver with highest ISR total time: ataport.SYS - ATAPI Driver Extension, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0,025480
> 
> ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 3636094
> ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 5
> ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED DPCs
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.
> 
> Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 539,944142
> Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc
> 
> Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0,229875
> Driver with highest DPC total execution time: cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc
> 
> Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0,421569
> 
> DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 24833975
> DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 80
> DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.
> 
> NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.
> 
> Process with highest pagefault count: chrome.exe
> 
> Total number of hard pagefaults 4637
> Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 1265
> Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 224386,357777
> Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0,033849
> Number of processes hit: 29
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> PER CPU DATA
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 114,886921
> CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 311,543397
> CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 5,015184
> CPU 0 ISR count: 3636099
> CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 539,944142
> CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 76,097796
> CPU 0 DPC count: 21404238
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,427187
> CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 1 ISR count: 0
> CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 203,547408
> CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0,402264
> CPU 1 DPC count: 62315
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 11,154163
> CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 2 ISR count: 0
> CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 193,506732
> CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0,421577
> CPU 2 DPC count: 201066
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,558414
> CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 3 ISR count: 0
> CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 150,430822
> CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0,488733
> CPU 3 DPC count: 50391
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 11,742004
> CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 4 ISR count: 0
> CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 221,966772
> CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 3,460667
> CPU 4 DPC count: 2266693
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,298474
> CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 5 ISR count: 0
> CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 209,928960
> CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 0,278913
> CPU 5 DPC count: 32558
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 6 Interrupt cycle time (s): 12,709484
> CPU 6 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 6 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 6 ISR count: 0
> CPU 6 DPC highest execution time (µs): 136,655686
> CPU 6 DPC total execution time (s): 1,526329
> CPU 6 DPC count: 773850
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 7 Interrupt cycle time (s): 6,578264
> CPU 7 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
> CPU 7 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
> CPU 7 ISR count: 0
> CPU 7 DPC highest execution time (µs): 122,364652
> CPU 7 DPC total execution time (s): 0,298783
> CPU 7 DPC count: 42944
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Try offline and see if the problem still persist.


----------



## Zachf914

let me just turn off my computer while I'm at it. 2


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zachf914*
> 
> let me just turn off my computer while I'm at it. 2


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Any idea why my mouse movement feels off in CS:GO?


I scratched my head couple of weeks ago too, because I had the feeling my FK1 has noticeable smoothing compared to my G100S. As soon as I enabled m_rawinput the cursor was accurate again and didn't feel delayed anymore. It was a HUGE improvement and instantly noticeable. But note that I use 80cm/360 which is kinda low sens. Using a higher sens like 20-40 I don't really notice a difference. Still would always use rawinput now because of that huge difference in general.

tl;dr Try enabling rawinput in GO if you haven't already.

Also MSAA adds input lag.
Same for non native resolutions.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> Any idea why my mouse movement feels off in CS:GO? Game also stutters and i've been trying to troubleshoot what is causing it.
> 
> LatencyMon screens
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
> i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz 1.31v
> XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers
> 8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory
> 2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K with csgo installation)
> XFX 550W Core Edition ATX-power
> BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
> 
> running cs:go with 1600x900 all low, 4x msaa.
> 
> Those LatencyMon screens are from 40minutes session on Desktop, mostly browsing internet + youtube song in background. Is it the external soundcard that causes the stuttering? Or is that interrupt cycle time for CPU 0 normal?
> 
> Attached LatencyMon logfile below, thanks for anyone who could help.


The problem is AMD's UVD clocks, which ties in directly with Adoble Flash (frequencies get underclocked). The only way to fix this is by flashing your card's BIOS, which I would recommend doing anyway to increase its TDP (from 20% to 50%).

On top of that, there's also the fact that CS:GO uses a buffered/processed raw input that causes the mouse to feel "smoothed".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I scratched my head couple of weeks ago too, because I had the feeling my FK1 has noticeable smoothing compared to my G100S. As soon as I enabled m_rawinput the cursor was accurate again and didn't feel delayed anymore. It was a HUGE improvement and instantly noticeable. But note that I use 80cm/360 which is kinda low sens. Using a higher sens like 20-40 I don't really notice a difference. Still would always use rawinput now because of that huge difference in general.
> 
> tl;dr Try enabling rawinput in GO if you haven't already.


Something is very wrong with your system, then. With CS:GO it should be the exact opposite: raw input makes the mouse feel smoothed and less responsive.


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## qsxcv

if you don't use raw input in csgo, sometimes you get negative acceleration when turning quickly, due to the windows "cursor" hitting the edge of the screen.

msaa doesn't add input lag. raw input on/off does not affect input lag. i'm not saying that it doesn't affect the feel of mouse movement, but i've measured with a high speed camera (see "flood's input lag measurements" on blurbusters) and there's no significant difference for the time between when the mouse starts moving and when the screen responds.


----------



## erobuR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> MSAA adds input lag? how much ? and proof?


All kinds of processing adds input lag. Because it is "processing", you know


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## qsxcv

i've done maybe a hundred or so input lag measurements in csgo with my camera by now. my entire setup has a measurement precision of 1-2ms

there is no setting in csgo that you should worry about. as long as you get high framerate, you're fine.

@above: how much? probably <1ms. for sure <2ms. again it's nothing to worry about. if you get 500fps with 3258x msaa in one map, and 500fps with no aa in another map, you'll experience the same about of input lag


----------



## Anusha

If you care about latency, multi GPU setups should be avoided right?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> if you get 500fps with 3258x msaa in one map, and 500fps with no aa in another map, you'll experience the same about of input lag


i should note that for instance, capping fps to 100 is not identical to if the game runs uncapped at 100fps (for instance due to a slow gpu), even if both are stable. this is because in the latter case it takes longer for the gpu to actually draw the frame.

for fps_max in csgo, if you want stable framerates use fps_max 256 or 512. net_graph will show 511 but that's related to how it counts frames. but i think csgo itself is so jittery and random that no one will perform differently due to fps_max 256 vs fps_max 0. i just use fps_max 0 because when i use 256 the framerate drops to 240 sometimes anyway.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> if you don't use raw input in csgo, sometimes you get negative acceleration when turning quickly, due to the windows "cursor" hitting the edge of the screen.
> 
> msaa doesn't add input lag. raw input on/off does not affect input lag. i'm not saying that it doesn't affect the feel of mouse movement, but i've measured with a high speed camera (see "flood's input lag measurements" on blurbusters) and there's no significant difference for the time between when the mouse starts moving and when the screen responds.


What a ridiculous statement.... that's all I'm gonna say.

And yeah, I was talking about how the mouse feels, I didn't say anything about input lag.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> What would be best. capping the fps at 300.. or 999.. some say the more frames the better.. Others say.. its better to go for a more stable to get the same feeling.. Not sure what to pick.
> I have i5 2500k (4.3)
> gtx 670
> 8 gb memory
> 144hz monitor
> 
> I have no fps problems at all and


Both are true, but I'm not a fan of capping frames to match the refresh rate. IMO you should be getting double (or triple, etc.) the frames minimum before you consider capping them. It all depends on what kind of frame rate you get and how consistent it is. Personally, I have the frame rate unlocked because I can compensate for the frame variances (at least that's how I feel about it.







).


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> What a ridiculous statement.... that's all I'm gonna say.


i don't know what you're implying but what i said is based on my measurements and can be independently verified by anyone else with a system capable of measuring full-chain input lag
Quote:


> And yeah, I was talking about how the mouse feels, I didn't say anything about input lag.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> On top of that, there's also the fact that CS:GO uses a buffered/processed raw input that causes the mouse to feel "smoothed".


if there is buffering/smoothing, there must be additional input lag.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> if there is buffering/smoothing, there must be additional input lag.


And why is that? What I said can be seen by anyone by eye, there's no need for a high speed camera.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> Latency aside, there are multiple reasons to avoid multi GPU systems. Take it from someone who 'upgraded' from GTX 780 SLI to a single 780 Ti.


So are you saying it is better to go for a single GTX 980 over SLI GTX 970s?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> And why is that?


nvm it is technically possible to have processing that doesn't affect my measurements (e.g. take average of current and previous mouse positions)

anyway none of this is impossible to test
all that's needed is a virtual mouse that moves in a predetermined pattern
Quote:


> What I said can be seen by anyone by eye


for stuff like that which can so easily be influenced by our biases, i really don't care about what other people claim to feel or see.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for stuff like that which can so easily be influenced by our biases, i really don't care about what other people claim to feel or see.


It's not a claim. If you don't see it there's either something wrong with you or with your PC.

Simple as that.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> msaa doesn't add input lag.


Of course MSAA adds input lag. All you need is a basic understanding of how MSAA works to know why. It's using grid based pixel sampling, which ironically, is essentially a form of interpolation with all of the same delay negatives you see when invoked in mice. The only way it wouldn't add input lag is if the Nvidia driver had a fixed time span buffer que allocated to this process that stayed on whether you disabled AA or not. It's not a question of, does AA add input lag, it's a question of how much processing delay does it actually add.

*I honestly haven't enabled AA in any game in a long time. The last time I tried it was the 280 GTX days, but it was easily noticeable input lag then.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Something is very wrong with your system, then. With CS:GO it should be the exact opposite: raw input makes the mouse feel smoothed and less responsive.


Nope, everything's fine.
I can easily feel the difference swiping the mouse in-game from left to right with 80cm/360 with m_rawinput 0 and m_rawinput 1.
It is INSTANTLY noticeable that the mouse feels different. And with my sens, m_rawinput 1 is a must, otherwise the crosshair feels like moving through sand.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> if you don't use raw input in csgo, sometimes you get negative acceleration when turning quickly, due to the windows "cursor" hitting the edge of the screen.


I read sth similiar before, dunno if that's true. But it would be some explanation. I thought that only sensitivities below 1.0 are affected by negative acceleration issues, but I use 1.3.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> (see "flood's input lag measurements" on blurbusters) and there's no significant difference for the time between when the mouse starts moving and when the screen responds.


Thanks. Will read that thread later. Good stuff!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> again it's nothing to worry about. if you get 500fps with 3258x msaa in one map, and 500fps with no aa in another map, you'll experience the same about of input lag


What about capped frames though?


----------



## superV

r0aching is dominating.min 4:30


----------



## Cerax

Hi guys i tried everything and im still at 1000 DPC im using windows 8.1.
My motherboard an ASUS z87-A, i7 4770k


----------



## jtl999

The Logitech G400 successor in terms of mouse responsiveness?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cerax*
> 
> Hi guys i tried everything and im still at 1000 DPC im using windows 8.1.
> My motherboard an ASUS z87-A, i7 4770k


DPC Latency checker doesn't work in Win8, have to use Latencymon


----------



## Cerax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> DPC Latency checker doesn't work in Win8, have to use Latencymon


How to use it i downlaod it but i dont fogure out where too see the DPC


----------



## cookieboyeli

Hi R0ach, maybe you can help me out.

I've followed your guide as closely as possible, but I can't seem to get rid of these spikes. DirectX, USB 1.1 & 2.0 Drivers, and Nvidia drivers are giving me a hard time fighting for longest latency above 1100ns. Here is a 33:32 session of BF4. Highest was 750 until I tabbed out at the end and it jumped to 1350. I have an Intel 82583V onboard, but the 19.5 drivers aren't recognising it so it won't install.
I should also note that my latency jumps around 36-50ns with HPET on or off. (It was off for this run).


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Here is the status too:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system seems to have difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. Also one or more ISR routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:33:23 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: ELI-PC
OS version: Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware: ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., CROSSHAIR V FORMULA-Z
CPU: AuthenticAMD AMD FX(tm)-6350 Six-Core Processor
Logical processors: 6
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 8094 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 4692.0 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 2935.0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1346.819219
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 8.514575

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 1341.790647
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 3.220102

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 1157.228261
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.402232
Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.453009

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 2628026
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 16
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 5
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 1124.616155
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.266027
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.804721

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 12741653
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 76
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 3
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: pnkbstrb.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 26910
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 26408
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 360757.394714
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.042998
Number of processes hit: 14

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 77.333326
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 261.040494
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 5.271851
CPU 0 ISR count: 230370
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 1124.616155
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 23.278419
CPU 0 DPC count: 6077752
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 31.974757
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 216.320332
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 4.742326
CPU 1 ISR count: 227788
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 433.425618
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 8.258060
CPU 1 DPC count: 713291
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 27.987572
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 229.010017
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 5.014591
CPU 2 ISR count: 232623
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 439.490196
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 8.415225
CPU 2 DPC count: 727835
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 29.456559
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 1128.351876
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 5.327724
CPU 3 ISR count: 255412
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 424.954177
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 8.118641
CPU 3 DPC count: 734860
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 36.807671
CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 326.570972
CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 8.628320
CPU 4 ISR count: 415224
CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 417.212702
CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 12.289845
CPU 4 DPC count: 1123617
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 79.249948
CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 1157.228261
CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 25.458693
CPU 5 ISR count: 1266630
CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 1121.214834
CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 36.352694
CPU 5 DPC count: 3364377
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## Oczoq5445

Edit: delete


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> The Logitech G400 successor in terms of mouse responsiveness?


Well, the mouse response king is obviously the G402/G302 sensor. Nothing else is in the same ballpark except MLT04. When G402 first came out, it felt off to me compared to G100s, and I couldn't figure out why. I suspected the gyroscope was the reason. Switching the gyroscope on or off in the software on the original firmware created a noticeable change in cursor movement for me, but Logitech claimed it couldn't be at fault. That setting doesn't stay off when you uninstall the driver, so it was hard to do any real testing on it since having the driver installed makes most or all mice feel like crap regardless.

They released a G402 firmware update to make the gyroscope operate the same on the Y axis as X axis. The mouse movement didn't seem to change much. I just got around to do some more testing with G402 yesterday. The simple act of removing the two center mouse feet by the sensor that are there for no reason makes the mouse handle way better than before and much closer to that of normal mice.

I think the center feet were creating kind of a pivot effect when you went to move the mouse from a stand still instead of just gliding in the direction you want it to, since it was at the center of weight where the mouse was pressing down. The mouse is actually usable and accurate for me now without the damn things on there. The other issue is that it has the stiffest cable of any mouse ever released, so it was very hard to tell if the sensor, the gyroscope, the center mouse feet, the older firmware, or the cord is throwing off movement the most.

Regardless, it's actually decent once you remove the center feet, put on the new firmware, and somehow manage to break down the cord tension whether the gyroscope is negatively affecting movement or not. I still perform best with a 3600 DPI G400, Kana v2, and Avior 7000 on v3.38 firmware at the moment, but the G402 can be beaten into submission to work if you want the twitchiest sensor possible.


----------



## thizito

Hi again r0ach. so, everytime you post about something i am interested .. of corse most of stuff depends on hardware and each case is one case.
like all the other tweaks.. but when a tweak comes without drawbacks i just do it 100%.

My setup is keyboard CMStorm Quickfire Stealth(awesome keyb..) i just cleaned it today and made it PS/2 with adapter. it is working..
About Hz, usb vs ps/2 will be there a difference? i play fast paced games when dodge is VERY important with ASWD (eg. quake/reflex/high level cs)
Idk if changing usb to ps/2 i make the response of keyboard slower, even if a little. i wanna just know it..

Still in the Hz stuff, i'm using overclocked WMO to 1000hz. I heard 500hz->1000hz is no problem with this mouse but i dont really know the completly true.. can this be annoying ? because 500hz is far stable.
Since i have 144hz gaming monitor (same as you 2720Z) i think 1000hz 500hz actually makes a difference for me, also make a little higher pcs

Oh my god too much Hz








Last question, should i disable all other USB stuff or it is like whatever? Im also using just USB 2.0 and disabled 3.0 in asus vii hero bios.

edit:
cmstorm website clearly says only usb is 1000hz '1,000 Hz/1 ms response time in USB Mode', will ps/2 be 125hz ? ill be very sad
also says it have NKRO n key roll over ps/2 who can use 104 keys in the same time.. like "anti-ghosting" for usb. sounds good, but still worried about how much time more ill have in ms for any key happen when i press


----------



## xD4rkFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> Hi again r0ach. so, everytime you post about something i am interested .. of corse most of stuff depends on hardware and each case is one case.
> like all the other tweaks.. but when a tweak comes without drawbacks i just do it 100%.
> 
> My setup is keyboard CMStorm Quickfire Stealth(awesome keyb..) i just cleaned it today and made it PS/2 with adapter. it is working..
> About Hz, usb vs ps/2 will be there a difference? i play fast paced games when dodge is VERY important with ASWD (eg. quake/reflex/high level cs)
> Idk if changing usb to ps/2 i make the response of keyboard slower, even if a little. i wanna just know it..
> 
> Still in the Hz stuff, i'm using overclocked WMO to 1000hz. I heard 500hz->1000hz is no problem with this mouse but i dont really know the completly true.. can this be annoying ? because 500hz is far stable.
> Since i have 144hz gaming monitor (same as you 2720Z) i think 1000hz 500hz actually makes a difference for me, also make a little higher pcs
> 
> Oh my god too much Hz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last question, should i disable all other USB stuff or it is like whatever? Im also using just USB 2.0 and disabled 3.0 in asus vii hero bios.
> 
> edit:
> cmstorm website clearly says only usb is 1000hz '1,000 Hz/1 ms response time in USB Mode', will ps/2 be 125hz ? ill be very sad
> also says it have NKRO n key roll over ps/2 who can use 104 keys in the same time.. like "anti-ghosting" for usb. sounds good, but still worried about how much time more ill have in ms for any key happen when i press


Since PS/2 is interrupt based, I don't think it goes off of a polling rate and instead sends an input to the computer when you press a key.


----------



## erobuR

Since i have fixed my weird problem i feel like i can share some of my findings about this issue.

*If you are not using US Keyboard Layout in Windows 7, and have been using a different keyboard layout of your native language etc. you might wanna change it to check the improvement of the mouse movement and reactness.

At control panel go to Region and Language and then at the section of Change keyboards and other input methods, simply delete whatever you use except US Eng keyboard loadout and reboot.* I did not have a chance to test this in Windows 8 or Windows 8.1

If you don't have English US, first add it then delete the others basically.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> cmstorm website clearly says only usb is 1000hz '1,000 Hz/1 ms response time in USB Mode', will ps/2 be 125hz ? ill be very sad


You probably do not want a 1000hz keyboard. I just tested running a 125hz vs 1000hz keyboard yesterday. Plugging in a 1000hz keyboard over USB makes your computer run pretty bad. It kills mouse twitch response and makes games have more chop. I used Metro 2033 and Borderlands The Presequel to test. My system runs these games at practically the same level of smoothness as Gsync while using a 125hz keyboard, and the second I plug the 1000hz keyboard in, it doesn't look smooth at all.

A device polling at 1000hz is a pretty heavy system process. Logitech claimed they made the G100s 500hz polling because some PCs can't even handle a single device polling at 1000hz. I don't think even high end PCs can handle two devices polling at 1000hz unless you toss one device on the USB 3 controller, but I don't use USB 3.

I originally thought all computers would benefit from running keyboards over PS/2, but it turns out, only some of the motherboards I tested benefited from it, so it's entirely motherboard/BIOS dependent. My Asus Z77 worked like crap with a PS/2 keyboard and was even worse than running a 1000hz USB keyboard, but on some other boards it worked better. There might be some way to make the Asus better by doing something like disabling "legacy USB support" in BIOS while using PS/2, but I didn't try things like that yet.

You also want to make sure every USB device plugged in is USB 2, because mixing USB 2 and USB 1.x devices is bad due to hubs having only a single transaction translator.


----------



## thizito

I did tests and dont really matter in my dodge having ps/2
i enjoyed.

Legacy usb support is enabled on bios
using only wmo 1000hz on usb 2.0
cmstormquickfire ps/2

this 'legacy' is 2.0 right?

btw. didnt see many changes.. as always, but is good trying to improve








actually there is nothing that make way more responsive devices.. BUT there is a lot of things i can notice make lag.. its easy to tell, when using common and very very lag stuff..

so, just a simple change but nothing tooooo good


----------



## r0ach

Since there are a lot of complete fools on Guru3d arguing about HPET, claiming forcing it on with platformclock commands somehow benefits your system, I added the following link to the main post:

*Explanation from software engineer for why TSC is superior and HPET should never be forced as the default clock except in a server environment:*

http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9


----------



## cookieboyeli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Since there are a lot of complete fools on Guru3d arguing about HPET, claiming forcing it on with platformclock commands somehow benefits your system, I added the following link to the main post:
> 
> *Explanation from software engineer for why TSC is superior and HPET should never be forced as the default clock except in a server environment:*
> 
> http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9


So what should platformclock settings be? I did exactly as the 3dguru guide said and changed it to "true". Your guide does not specifically mention NOT to do what it says on 3dguru, so I did everything your way with the exception of the 3dguru guide.


----------



## r0ach

I'm going to add a section about Windows Timer resolution to main post. Default is 15, if you want to see what a timer resolution of 1 feels like, just open this page and timer resolution goes to 1 while this video of some weird guy is running:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1525246/kotaku-modders-are-turning-fallout-new-vegas-into-a-whole-new-game

Timer resolution can go as low as 0.5 though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookieboyeli*
> 
> So what should platformclock settings be? I did exactly as the 3dguru guide said and changed it to "true". Your guide does not specifically mention NOT to do what it says on 3dguru, so I did everything your way with the exception of the 3dguru guide.


If you forced it on in Windows, then type " /deletevalue useplatformclock " to turn it off, then disable it in the BIOS after.


----------



## r0ach

*blah double post*


----------



## cookieboyeli

Took me a while to find _exactly_ what you're supposed to type for the command to be recognized. It's actually "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock".


----------



## jtl999

link dead


----------



## r0ach

This wasn't what they were using it for, but they did discover a good program on Guru3d to show things like how stable your BCLK is compared to other motherboards:

http://www.satsignal.eu/software/PCClockTiming.zip

There's mine with a bunch of stuff running in the background on the Asus Z77. As you can see, the BCLK on that board is crazy stable, coming in at 100.0027


----------



## cookieboyeli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I'm going to add a section about Windows Timer resolution to main post. Default is 15, if you want to see what a timer resolution of 1 feels like, just open this page and timer resolution goes to 1 while this video of some weird guy is running:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1525246/kotaku-modders-are-turning-fallout-new-vegas-into-a-whole-new-game
> 
> Timer resolution can go as low as 0.5 though.
> If you forced it on in Windows, then type " /deletevalue useplatformclock " to turn it off, then disable it in the BIOS after.


After turning it off and rebooting I got a BSOD within 2 minutes. However, latency is now bouncing around between 8 and 56us where as before it was bouncing around 46 to 66us. It' looks like it's averaging 30 or so to me, even though on the stat page it's saying 5.521us (yea _sure_). If I get another BSOD I'll have to change it back though...


----------



## cookieboyeli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> This wasn't what they were using it for, but they did discover a good program on Guru3d to show things like how stable your BCLK is compared to other motherboards:
> 
> http://www.satsignal.eu/software/PCClockTiming.zip
> 
> There's mine with a bunch of stuff running in the background on the Asus Z77. As you can see, the BCLK on that board is crazy stable, coming in at 100.0027


Yea I don't know what's up with my board, but my Crossshair V Formula Z gives 200.67 FSB in the OS when set to 200 in the BIOS, so after a while I set it to 199 in the BIOS to get 199.67 which is closer to what it should be. That made it waaaaay more stable. I was getting BSODs left and right before and that fixed it.


----------



## r0ach

You forgot to mention that you were running an AMD overclocked to the max with a bunch of ghetto virtual cores in it. I don't know much about AMD. Intel has invariant TSC, and not sure what AMD has, but it might be that AMD is using worse TSC timer methods while also having more virtual cores at the same time. Meaning HPET might be needed for AMD stability.

Someone claimed AMD was turning on useplatform clock in newer system or Catalyst drivers. No idea if that's true. I saw enormous lag with that turned on for my Intel boards.

If you want to try and run TSC, try lowering the clockspeed first and see if that helps somehow. If your timers are unstable, you also need to make sure all the dynamic power saving crap is disabled, and dynamic clock speeds like turbo boost. You cannot leave any of it on thinking it doesn't matter.


----------



## thizito

mine looks strange..

hpet disabled on bios.. 100.1 blck
asus vii hero mb
3690k 4.7ghz

from a little search:
TSC+LAPICs Low performance (slow timers + syncing) = 2.76MHz
LAPICs low performance (slow timer - no syncing) = 3.5Mhz
TSC+HPET medium performance (slow and fast timer + syncing) = 3.8Mhz
HPET high performance (fast timer - no syncing) = 14.3MHz

im using LAPIC'S low? Oo
is it the best one ? btw. im with very low latency 5-12u.. without timerresolution.. with it i get higher latency Oo

also,
TSC+LAPICs (useplatformclock false)*
LAPICs (useplatformclock true)**
TSC+HPET (useplatformclock false)***
HPET (useplatformclock true)****

* Windows default.
**platformclock=true and HPET disabled in BIOS will default to LAPICs, which is good compared to TSC, but doesn't not have not so high resolution and so low DPC latency as HPET.
*** Windows default with HPET enabled in BIOS.
**** HPET enabled in BIOS and in OS.

im confused since many forums tell for enable hpet on bios and on platformclock for best results.. and you are the oposite. any light ? even a fast explanation, i've been always confused in hpet and trusting my feelings


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> from a little search:
> TSC+LAPICs Low performance (slow timers + syncing) = 2.76MHz
> LAPICs low performance (slow timer - no syncing) = 3.5Mhz
> TSC+HPET medium performance (slow and fast timer + syncing) = 3.8Mhz
> HPET high performance (fast timer - no syncing) = 14.3MHz


None of that is true. Every software dev knows TSC is the lowest overhead timer.


----------



## thizito

lowest =better? if so, how to make it ?


----------



## r0ach

Added ASUS BIOS Section to main post.

*Asus Specific Section*

*Ai overclock tuner* - Manual
*Asus Multicore Enhancement* - Disabled
*Internal PLL Overvoltage* - Disabled
*CPU bus sped : DRAM Speed Ratio* - 100:100
*Memory Frequency* - 1600 mhz
*EPU Power Saving Mode* - Disabled
*Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology* - Disabled
*Turbo Mode* - Disabled
*CPU C1E* - Disabled
*CPU C3 Report* - Disabled
*CPU C6 Report* - Disabled
*Package C State Support* - Disabled

*Digi+ Power control*

*CPU Load Line Calibration* - Regular
*CPU Voltage Frequency* - Auto
*VRM Spread Spectrum* - Disabled
*CPU Power Phase Control* - Extreme
*CPU Power Duty Control* - Extreme
*CPU Power Response Control* - Regular
*Dram Voltage Frequency* - Auto
*Dram Power Phase Control* - Extreme

*CPU Voltage* - Manual (you have to manually input a voltage, mine is 1.07 for stock Ivy Bridge, don't leave it on auto, it makes a big difference on this board. You don't have to change any of the other voltages though besides maybe RAM)
*CPU Spread Spectrum* - Disabled
*BCLK Recovery* - Disabled
*Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor* - Disabled
*Hyper Threading* - Disabled
*Execute Disable Bit* - Disabled
*Intel Virtualization* - Disabled
*High Precision Timer* - Disabled
*Intel Rapid Start* - Disabled
*Intel Smart Connect* - Disabled
*S.M.A.R.T. Status Check* - Disabled
*Primary Display* - Auto (Don't change it. Manually setting PCIE was worse. Probably some bug related to PCIE sound cards)
*Render Standby* - Disabled
*iGPU Multi-Monitor* - Disabled
*PCIEx16_1 Link Speed* - manually set to Gen3. If you have older than an Ivy Bridge CPU or a PCIE 2.0 video card, then manually set it to Gen2.
*Intel USB 2.0 EHCI controller* - Enabled
*Legacy USB Support* - Disabled (you might not be able to get back into BIOS with it disabled, so change this last. You can always use the clear CMOS switch or remove the battery to get back into BIOS anyway)
*Legacy USB 3.0 support* - Disabled
*Intel xHCI mode* - Disabled
*EHCI Hand-off* - Disabled
*HD Audio Controller* - Disabled
*Bluetooth* - Disabled
*Wi-fi controller* - Disabled
*Marvell Storage* - Disabled
*ASM1061 Storage Controller* - Disabled
*Asmedia USB 3.0 controller* - Disabled
*Overvoltage protection* - Disabled (it's under the monitor tab at bottom)
*Fast Boot* - Disabled
*Wait for F1 if Error* - Disabled
*CSM* - Should be turned on with all ROM priority set to Legacy boot mode
*UEFI / Security Boot* - Change setting to "Other OS"

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> lowest =better? if so, how to make it ?


Yours is fine besides the high resolution timer being a bit off since the system set it to 1000 and it came up 976.6, not sure what's up with that. I get a flat 1000.9 when Windows sets timer resolution to 1000.


----------



## Oczoq5445

Edit: delete


----------



## qsxcv

so anyone want to explain this?
http://esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-tests-ql-csgo-q3a/
Quote:


> 2. HPET OFF = stutters + drops in frame rate + it adds HUGE input lag variace - I made 10 measurements and it was anything from 26ms to 90ms (!!!) turning HPET on/off with cmd in WIndows 7 did not make any difference QL/CSGO


Quote:


> the main problem with HPET for me is that if it is disabled I do not get stable FPS in any game. FPS dips => big input lag varience, just because you see less frames.
> 
> So main thing is to keep an eye on your FPS value, it should not have dips below desired FPS value at all.


of course it depends on specific hardware/driver/os/game combinations but still his hardware isn't too special
Quote:


> PC: i5 4690, GTX760 Hawk, Z87M Gaming mb, RAM CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8R 2x8Gb, Kingston HyperX 3K SSD.


----------



## thizito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> so anyone want to explain this?
> http://esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-tests-ql-csgo-q3a/
> 
> of course it depends on specific hardware/driver/os/game combinations but still his hardware isn't too special


of course it depends on specific hardware/driver/os/game combinations

you answered.
its tottally that. i believe

also, hpet on and off can cause framerate varies and other experiences depending on game. like quakelive get 200~250 fps in my machine 99999fps when i get it off without some commands.. putting the commands back to stable 250fps. It is just some experiences that many users can have, differently then the most people.. but still .. most of people benefit from hpet off i believe.


----------



## r0ach

I didn't have a very good experience with Z87 myself. I have three Z77 boards and two Z87 boards. The Z77 are all better for mouse movement. The Haswell platform seemed to be designed entirely around laptops and power savings, so there's no telling what kind of issues you will have with those. I think the Intel Israel team designed Sandy Bridge and decided to dump FIVR when designing Skylake, so Haswell is already dead to me anyway.


----------



## qsxcv

have you used fermi before? have you noticed a change in desktop behavior between fermi and kepler/maxwell cards?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> have you used fermi before? have you noticed a change in desktop behavior between fermi and kepler/maxwell cards?


The EVGA 970 FTW is very similar to the 570 GTX reference card in mouse movement. The Gigabyte 970 was a bit different. Gigabyte has a built in displayport to DVI adapter and other custom hardware, so the EVGA or MSI is a safter bet. I haven't tried the MSI, so if you want to be safe, go for the EVGA, but keep in mind you will have to flash the BIOS to raise TDP limit since EVGA set it way too low which causes throttling and stutter. I already have a thread in the Nvidia section of the forum with the 970 FTW BIOS I fixed to raise TDP from 170w to 220w:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522035/evga-970-ftw-tdp-issues-requires-bios-mod-to-fix


----------



## Anusha

I can confirm that disabling HPET in my Maximus VII Gene really gets rid of it.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The EVGA 970 FTW is very similar to the 570 GTX reference card in mouse movement. The Gigabyte 970 was a bit different. Gigabyte has a built in displayport to DVI adapter and other custom hardware, so the EVGA or MSI is a safter bet. I haven't tried the MSI, so if you want to be safe, go for the EVGA, but keep in mind you will have to flash the BIOS to raise TDP limit since EVGA set it way too low which causes throttling and stutter. I already have a thread in the Nvidia section of the forum with the 970 FTW BIOS I fixed to raise TDP from 170w to 220w:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1522035/evga-970-ftw-tdp-issues-requires-bios-mod-to-fix


try dragging a window around in windows 7 with aero off

if you don't notice a difference for this between maxwell and fermi... well i don't know how you can feel these other effects which are in all likelihood sub-millisecond factors


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> try dragging a window around in windows 7 with aero off
> 
> if you don't notice a difference for this between maxwell and fermi... well i don't know how you can feel these other effects which are in all likelihood sub-millisecond factors


Exactly what cards are you comparing? I've noticed that 3rd party cards typically feel a bit off or different compared to reference Nvidia cards, so even comparing two different Fermi cards can give you different results.

There's also the fact that Fermi clock speed in low power state was set far too low, so I'm not sure if Fermi should be used at all in the equation.

If you use the Maxwell BIOS editor, you can force disable all power states except P0, which people "claim" turns off turbo boost, but I'm unsure if turbo boost actually turns off, or if it stays on and is just not doing anything, so there's a few things like that I haven't experimented with yet on Maxwell.


----------



## xD4rkFire

Quote:


> *Services*
> 
> If your mouse doesn't feel snappy enough at this point, you should try disabling the following Windows services in this order:
> 
> 10) *Background Intelligent Transfer Service (Win8)* - Set to manual instead of Auto


In the OP, why does #10 only apply to Windows 8? The service is also present in Windows 7. Is it not a problem in Windows 7?


----------



## the1freeMan

I measured a huge increase in interrupt latency with LatencyMon's In depth latency tests after installing nvidia drivers.

Take a look here

I'm very curious if the happens with amd or different cards/series too.


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> "HPET (High Precision Event Timer) vs RTC (Real-Time Clock)
> HPET is a timer that can generate interrupts at a much higher rate than RTC with lower system load,
> multithreaded apps can work at much finer resolutions than 1ms to implement better per-core control. It
> measures intervals with a precision of 70 ns with a 14,3Mhz frequency,
> 
> HPET needs to be Enabled in both BIOS and Windows.
> Enable: start cmd (Administrator) :
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> If an increase in delay occurs = A device/driver isnt working correctly.
> I would suggest solving the device/driver issue rather than turning HPET Off.
> Howto disable: start cmd (Administrator) Type: "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock" Then Restart"


It's all completely wrong. Calling up QPC with HPET takes 700ns to read for instance, 10x what the post quotes, while using TSC timer is 20ish ns. HPET has more overhead plain and simple. Has anyone advocating turning HPET on in the BIOS + Windows even tried it before? It gives me probably a full 1 second or 1000ms of input lag to the cursor.

TSC should be a function of maximum processor speed in newer CPUs, which means you CANNOT use sleep, power savings, dynamic clock speeds, turbo boost, etc with it. It all has to be disabled. If you plan to run a server and want to avoid drift issues or sync across a zillion CPU cores, then HPET is probably the better option.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> TSC should be a function of maximum processor speed in newer CPUs, which means you CANNOT use sleep, power savings, dynamic clock speeds, turbo boost, etc with it. _It all has to be disabled._


Or else what?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Or else what?


Or else clock drift/skew


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Or else clock drift/skew


which results in?


----------



## Anusha

Which audio card and drivers are recommended for lowest latency?


----------



## Oczoq5445

EDIT: removed


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> So this is all wrong?


Lol CS:GO guides... steer clear! I was about to make one before I gave up to how bad hit reg is in that game regardless of optimization, and simply despise the community too much to help. Hackustions every 2 matches actually were fun in a way...

Anyway the useplatformclock tweak is total nonsense and usually gives detrimental effects.

here are some interesting reads on how bad HPET is:

http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=54ff7e595d763d894104d421b103a89f7becf47c

https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2012/08/13/msg013858.html

http://www.postgresql.org/message-id/[email protected]


----------



## Oczoq5445

edit: delete


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Lol CS:GO guides... steer clear! I was about to make one before I gave up to how bad hit reg is in that game regardless of optimization, and simply despise the community too much to help. Hackustions every 2 matches actually were fun in a way...


You should try ESEA


----------



## r0ach

Well, if somebody abuses power on this site and my account is mysteriously deleted or something, the following is probably why:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1526663/moderation-is-out-of-control-on-this-site-due-to-rules-being-far-too-ambiguous-and-open-to-interpretation-where-almost-anything-can-be-considered-an-offense


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> You should try ESEA


I already payed for the game once IIRC








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kilos*
> 
> Bad hit reg? Then you havent played battlefield 3 lol.


That's actually why I stopped playing it and many other games (well BF3 in particular had some balancing issues along side with that). CS:GO is just not on par with older CS in that regard. It's not always bad, it's mostly inconsistent. (regardless of tickrate, with 64tick just being very poor)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, if somebody abuses power on this site and my account is mysteriously deleted or something, the following is probably why:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1526663/moderation-is-out-of-control-on-this-site-due-to-rules-being-far-too-ambiguous-and-open-to-interpretation-where-almost-anything-can-be-considered-an-offense


That thread went MIA quickly.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> I already payed for the game once IIRC


Then try CEVO


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

r0ach, have you seen or tried this trick to bypass the NVIDIA scaling problem? http://www.overclock.net/t/1372936/guide-disable-nvidia-scaling-and-reduce-input-lag/0_20

I tried it out, and I have a custom 1920 x 1080 resolution @ 119Hz (vertical total 1350 pixel trick to brighten things up with Blur Reduction on). It appears to me so far to be nearly identical to when I was running that resolution @ 120Hz, but it's really cleared up the input lag from the NVIDIA scaling bug. Is there any reason that a refresh rate of 119Hz is not a good idea or disadvantageous compared to 120Hz?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> r0ach, have you seen or tried this trick to bypass the NVIDIA scaling problem? http://www.overclock.net/t/1372936/guide-disable-nvidia-scaling-and-reduce-input-lag/0_20
> 
> I tried it out, and I have a custom 1920 x 1080 resolution @ 119Hz (vertical total 1350 pixel trick to brighten things up with Blur Reduction on). It appears to me so far to be nearly identical to when I was running that resolution @ 120Hz, but it's really cleared up the input lag from the NVIDIA scaling bug. Is there any reason that a refresh rate of 119Hz is not a good idea or disadvantageous compared to 120Hz?


I got rid of my BenQ 2720z, so I can no longer test that. If his post is true, that's pretty funny that anyone buying a 120/144hz monitor will most likely aim worse than someone running a 60hz 1080p TN panel overclocked to 70ish hz unless they go through the hoops required to fix this issue.

When I tested out the BenQ 2720z, cursor movement was god awful compared to my 1440p IPS with no scaler (have to use 267.59 Nvidia driver for that monitor) and my 1080p 60hz TN panel (which overclocks higher).


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I got rid of my BenQ 2720z, so I can no longer test that. If his post is true, that's pretty funny that anyone buying a 120/144hz monitor will most likely aim worse than someone running a 60hz 1080p TN panel overclocked to 70ish hz unless they go through the hoops required to fix this issue.
> 
> When I tested out the BenQ 2720z, cursor movement was god awful compared to my 1440p IPS with no scaler (have to use 267.59 Nvidia driver for that monitor) and my 1080p 60hz TN panel (which overclocks higher).


I think the process from that thread basically accomplishes the same thing as the following excerpt from the OP. I don't really have anything to back this up other than that I came across that thread before I came across yours, and his method seemed to have fixed the input lag from the scaling issues due to upgrading NVIDIA drivers. And upon discovering your thread, I followed the fresh install--change scaling--uninstall--reinstall for the 344.11 NVIDIA driver and it didn't make any further noticeable difference in input lag for me.

To validate what he says in that thread, when I reduced the resolution to 1280 x 720 with "Display - No scaling", it appeared centered on screen whilst the monitor was reporting a 1920 x 1080 resolution in its menu, leading me to believe the scaling was actually being handled as "GPU - No scaling".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Your Desktop scaling section of the control panel should be set to "Display - No scaling" like the following picture. I noticed a very annoying software issue when testing if there was any lag difference in my 570 reference card and 970 GTX Gigabyte aftermarket. Cursor movement seems to go to crap after you change the scaling setting from whatever it was when the driver was first installed. So basically, on a fresh install, you want to install the Nvidia driver, go in and change the scaling tab to "Display - No Scaling", then uninstall the driver, reinstall it, and never touch that setting again.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Exactly what cards are you comparing?


not sure if models or power savings affect anything.

what i'm seeing is most likely an architectural issue, or at least difference, from all other previous cards

in the past, if you drag something on the desktop you would see tearing:
for instance, on my gtx 460: http://i.imgur.com/taRy5o4.jpg
this is expected behavior if the framebuffer is updated instantly with each mouse update; the tearing reflects that the system reacts to mouse input as quickly as possible. afaik this behavior is similar with any intel graphics, and probably amd but i dont have an amd card to test with.

with maxwell, the desktop is only updated at the start of each refresh cycle. some applications (e.g. chrome) cause the desktop to be updated near the end of refresh cycles... i haven't found a pattern but basically if you drag a chrome window around, you find that only the bottom part exhibits tearing. otoh for paint, notepad, windows explorer windows, if you drag them around there is no tearing 95% of the time.

i have experienced the same with all the maxwell cards i've tried: evga gtx 750ti, msi gtx 970, and nvidia reference gtx 970. my friend who has a kepler card confirmed the same behavior, so probably nvidia did something between fermi and kepler...

anyway this means that there is half a refresh cycle of additional input lag at the center of the screen.......... and this is easily verifiable by the lag measuring rig i've set up. here's a video (warning very boring): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV-5dtVZPmw

fortunately this issue does not persist in fullscreen games. borderless windowed fullscreen is probably affected but i haven't checked yet. in fullscreen cs1.6 with unlocked framerate, i measured 1ms or 2ms of lag consistently. (yea from input to screen response)

tldr: maxwell and probably kepler have a less responsive desktop than fermi and older nvidia cards by a few ms.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> not sure if models or power savings affect anything.
> 
> what i'm seeing is most likely an architectural issue, or at least difference, from all other previous cards
> 
> in the past, if you drag something on the desktop you would see tearing:
> for instance, on my gtx 460: http://i.imgur.com/taRy5o4.jpg


I haven't seen chop like that dragging something on the desktop ever no matter what card or driver I used. Instead of having vsync lines appear all over the place, when I drag a window on a 570 GTX on a Korean IPS with no internal scaler on 267.59 driver with flipque set to 0, the vsync tearing line actually occurs at the exact same position every time on Win7, where the top 1/5th of the screen ends. If I drag the window below that line, there is 0 tearing at all to distort the image.

I noticed slightly different mouse movement on Windows 7 between a 570 GTX reference card and EVGA 970, but like I explained before, I always notice a difference between reference card mouse movement and 3rd party vendors and their custom BIOS. The reference card typically always feels better mouse-wise. Saw the same thing with AMD GPUs too. There is no reference 970 though, and a reference 980 will throttle from temps, power target, or both. I had to flash my EVGA 970 FTW to stop it from throttling because when it throttles, it creates excess tearing and stutter.

There's the two BIOS I made to fix the problem:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522035/evga-970-ftw-tdp-issues-requires-bios-mod-to-fix
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> in fullscreen cs1.6 with unlocked framerate, i measured 1ms or 2ms of lag consistently. (yea from input to screen response)


If I had to take a guess as to the source of the 1ms extra lag between Fermi and Maxwell, I would say probably turbo boost. Another option is PCIE 3 vs PCIE 2, since increasing bandwidth on the same computer architecture usually brings more latency.


----------



## Yahar

^I thought this was caused by switching from XDDM -> WDDM? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_window_manager

"Since the screen is double buffered, it does not flicker during updates."

WDDM is I believe, turned off in true full-screen applications.

Am I completely off or talking about different thing?


----------



## thizito

im doing a cleanup in my 2 ssd's, i dont have hdd.
i just have this question.. Do I need all visual C++ runtimes installed? I have like 8 versions =/
and netframework4..
and im just browsing and gaming
i think i am super clean atm.. just wanna be 100%, i didnt even made win updates. removed so many services and stuff.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> im doing a cleanup in my 2 ssd's, i dont have hdd.
> i just have this question.. Do I need all visual C++ runtimes installed? I have like 8 versions =/
> and netframework4..
> and im just browsing and gaming
> i think i am super clean atm.. just wanna be 100%, i didnt even made win updates. removed so many services and stuff.


There's so many bad ideas in this post. Hap-hazardously removing services will just end up with broken programs or broken Windows, just follow a guide like in the OP for which services you really need to target. Most of them are essentially idle most of the time and contribute little-to-no input lag or utilization of system resources.

Not keeping Windows up to date, also terrible idea. There's several hotfixes that improve system performance/stability, and some that patch gaping security holes. The only case it would not be stupid to avoid Windows updates is if you didn't access the internet with your computer, which is clearly not the case.

And yes, you need all the Visual C++ Redistributables installed and whichever .NET Frameworks you have installed, because they are usually packaged together with a specific program. And because of the way those packages work, the programs they came with can only function with those exact copies installed, so you end up with a whole mess of them. They will not cause any performance degradation or other complications.


----------



## thizito

Not really.. the same people who says keep windows always updated OFCORSE OMG!
is the same who dont know anything and say keep video cards drivers updated..

yes, there is some goods in updates.. but is a MIX. and i will not join this mix of good/bad things, i have no time to select each desirable update and update it.
also sp1 is already very fine..

and i follow op guide, and my own mind/research did the rest.. im not overdisabling anything.. just the useless common crap, and things i would never use.
but for sure. Know what you are disabling before doing.

i need visual++ and netframework for softwares i guess.. maybe if i have the last one is enough? or maybe i can go without them for gaming anyway.
just didnt find a answer @net


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I haven't seen chop like that dragging something on the desktop ever no matter what card or driver I used. Instead of having vsync lines appear all over the place, when I drag a window on a 570 GTX on a Korean IPS with no internal scaler on 267.59 driver with flipque set to 0, the vsync tearing line actually occurs at the exact same position every time on Win7, where the top 1/5th of the screen ends. If I drag the window below that line, there is 0 tearing at all to distort the image.


my monitor runs at 85hz and mouse is 500hz. since 500 isnt a multiple of 85. the tear lines dont line up in that picture.

can you take a picture of what you see?

the thing is... you want tearing. otherwise it means the card is buffering up data somewhere in the pipeline

there's no extra lag in fullscreen games between fermi and maxwell. 1-2 ms is a perfect result given that the framerate is 2000 and the emulated mouse is polled at 1000hz


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yahar*
> 
> ^I thought this was caused by switching from XDDM -> WDDM? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositing_window_manager
> 
> "Since the screen is double buffered, it does not flicker during updates."
> 
> WDDM is I believe, turned off in true full-screen applications.
> 
> Am I completely off or talking about different thing?


nope that only applies to aero

in windows 7 with the basic theme, it's a stacking window manager that shouldn't have any screen buffering and should show tearing.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> Not really.. the same people who says keep windows always updated OFCORSE OMG!
> is the same who dont know anything and say keep video cards drivers updated..
> 
> yes, there is some goods in updates.. but is a MIX. and i will not join this mix of good/bad things, i have no time to select each desirable update and update it.
> also sp1 is already very fine..
> 
> and i follow op guide, and my own mind/research did the rest.. im not overdisabling anything.. just the useless common crap, and things i would never use.
> but for sure. Know what you are disabling before doing.
> 
> i need visual++ and netframework for softwares i guess.. maybe if i have the last one is enough? or maybe i can go without them for gaming anyway.
> just didnt find a answer @net


I mean I don't have Windows update itself automatically, but the positives far outweigh the negatives as far as keeping Windows updated. Other than Windows Defender related updates, which I don't use, I've only ever intentionally not installed 1 Windows update (due to the ambiguously legal nature of mine







) and I've never had a performance or stability issue stemming from them. More importantly, this along with NOD32 antivirus have kept my computer 100% secure, which you can't put a price on. You don't realize how much you take security for granted until you get one nasty trojan that renders your endlessly tweaked and perfected Windows install completely unsalvageable.

You're right about the video card updates, it's better to take a wait and see approach to see how they are working for others. I don't know AMD, but for NVIDIA the optimal drivers at this point are generally agreed to be 344.1x.

As with everything performance and tweak related, it's better to research and test things yourself, because even the savviest tweak gurus can recommend some things that are more subjective/personal preference or things that have since been obsoleted or found to be non-optimal.

Like I said previously, there really is no good reason to uninstall Visual C++ Redistributables or .NET Frameworks, but if you insist on manically cleaning up your Installed Programs/Services list, I would at least create a System Restore point beforehand, and preferably a full system image of the drive containing Windows with Windows backup onto an external hard drive.


----------



## paskanmyivat

Does this look right?

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 with newest bios
AMD R9 290x
4770k


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> 
> 
> Does this look right?
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 with newest bios
> AMD R9 290x
> 4770k


Your first line, performance counter, when using modern TSC, should be derived from your maximum clock speed divided by 1024, so it's not going to be the same for everyone. That's why it's important to turn off all dynamic clock speed adjustments and power saving features when using TSC.

As for your timer resolution, it's kind of strange that it's at 1.25. I'm not sure why an app would set that resolution, but I guess it's possible. Playing a video on my system requests a timer resolution of 1 for instance.


----------



## erobuR

r0ach, especially for Source Engine games, can you check that if disabling Physx affects input lag and mouse movement? In my rig there is enourmous difference!


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erobuR*
> 
> r0ach, especially for Source Engine games, can you check that if disabling Physx affects input lag and mouse movement? In my rig there is enourmous difference!


I haven't installed PhysX in a long time. The only thing I install from the Nvidia package is the driver itself, so I wouldn't be the greatest person to speak on that issue when I haven't used it in years. If you run Steam a lot, you will probably want to disable DirectWrite font option in the menu. It's always useful for bogging down your desktop when it's on. I'd turn off the streaming and steam overlay options as well.


----------



## Quantum Reality

Quote:


> Why you do not want to plug multiple Windows installs into the same machine:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1524063/after-years-of-troubleshooting-i-have-just-found-what-causes-my-mouse-to-lag-and-general-input-lag-problem/30#post_23132686


I don't know if this has been addressed, but the true underlying issue seems to be electrical, not software-related: that is, transient electrical faults can boost latency and be extremely hard to troubleshoot. Not to mention hard drives beginning to fail will introduce their own lag issues as well; my roomie had ongoing problems with his computer, and once we swapped out hard drives it got back to being snappy as anything.


----------



## erobuR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I haven't installed PhysX in a long time. The only thing I install from the Nvidia package is the driver itself, so I wouldn't be the greatest person to speak on that issue when I haven't used it in years. If you run Steam a lot, you will probably want to disable DirectWrite font option in the menu. It's always useful for bogging down your desktop when it's on. I'd turn off the streaming and steam overlay options as well.


But even if you don't install Physx drivers, don't you have a "Set Physx Configuration" in your Nvidia Control Panel under 3d settings tab? I was talking about that section and switching it to CPU from Auto.


----------



## Anusha

I asked this before, but did not get a response.

Which keyboard do you guys recommend for gaming? I know that keyboard software like Logitech Gaming Software are crap. I actually have the G15 second edition keyboard in my system, but without the software it is utter useless (no LCD and G-key support as there is no onboard memory to store profiles)

At the same time, I would like to switch to a mechanical keyboard as well.

I was wondering if I could buy the Logitech G710+, install the software once, create some profiles and burn them to the onboard memory and then remove the software. I have the G500 and G602 mice and they are setup in that manner.

If the G710+ is not what you guys would recommend, what other options do I have? *I need a keyboard that has side G keys which can be programmed to work without the software.*


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erobuR*
> 
> But even if you don't install Physx drivers, don't you have a "Set Physx Configuration" in your Nvidia Control Panel under 3d settings tab? I was talking about that section and switching it to CPU from Auto.


Why do you think that would make a difference? Wouldn't AUTO be equal to CPU in this case?


----------



## erobuR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> Why do you think that would make a difference? Wouldn't AUTO be equal to CPU in this case?


It did make a lot difference in my rig. And also it fixes a lot problems with source games lately. http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2nsqq2/dota_2_issues_with_asus_rog_maximus_iv_hero/ here for example i helped out a guy.


----------



## erobuR

Also setting cpu cores not auto but manual at msconfig advanced boot options feels so much different, i don't know why.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erobuR*
> 
> It did make a lot difference in my rig. And also it fixes a lot problems with source games lately. http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2nsqq2/dota_2_issues_with_asus_rog_maximus_iv_hero/ here for example i helped out a guy.


But that's different. You said it might make a difference even if you haven't installed PhysX drivers. That person does not mention if he has installed them or not. If he has not installed it, then AUTO should not make a difference. It has nothing to do with input lag, but a messed up driver setting.

It probably had something to do with SLI. SLI with these Maxwell GPUs are still not as good as on Kepler. I bet drivers need maturing.

What I am saying is that, it is inconclusive that this setting has anything to do with input lag.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erobuR*
> 
> Also setting cpu cores not auto but manual at msconfig advanced boot options feels so much different, i don't know why.


I bet it is placebo effect. But what matters is what you feel - or how you mind interprets it, and not whether it is real or not.

Those settings are just for troubleshooting. Tampering with them should not improve performance, but quite the other way round.


----------



## Conditioned

Just a heads up btw, the Asus z97 motherboards don't have an option to disable hpet. In fact when I contacted their support about it he didn't even know what hpet was and had to look it up.


----------



## thizito

lol my mb is like z97 from asus.. the asus vii hero.. and hpet is possible to disable


----------



## Conditioned

z97-pro, z97-a and z97 deluxe not possible to disable hpet. Not the same motherboard as the one you are referring to you.


----------



## Trull

Yes, it's the same for Z87 Asus boards. We already knew that.


----------



## Pionir

Some new XXX player = Killing Machine, Kills - 90



People pre-shooting me, 16 K - 30 D











Where / how can I find this = PC Clock Frequencies v3.1.1.13 ?


----------



## cookieboyeli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> Some new XXX player = Killing Machine, Kills - 90
> 
> 
> 
> People pre-shooting me, 16 K - 30 D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where / how can I find this = PC Clock Frequencies v3.1.1.13 ?


http://www.satsignal.eu/software/net.htm


----------



## leakydog

Hi, I have gigabyte MB and before i tried disabled any power saving functions in BIOS, DPC latency checker show me only yellow bars - about constantly 1000. After changes in BIOS it was better, mostly green bars, but unstable between 8 - 1000 nanosec. I don't know how to set these voltages and still enjoy my 4.4 Ghz OC (i5-2500k). Could anybody help me if I post there photos of BIOS screens? Is it possible to get stable 8 nano secs. all the time? I know this DCP latency checker is not really accurate, but still looks pretty convincing. I play mostly BF4 on win 8.1. Thanks.


----------



## Almost Heathen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leakydog*
> 
> Hi, I have gigabyte MB and before i tried disabled any power saving functions in BIOS, DPC latency checker show me only yellow bars - about constantly 1000. After changes in BIOS it was better, mostly green bars, but unstable between 8 - 1000 nanosec. I don't know how to set these voltages and still enjoy my 4.4 Ghz OC (i5-2500k). Could anybody help me if I post there photos of BIOS screens? Is it possible to get stable 8 nano secs. all the time? I know this DCP latency checker is not really accurate, but still looks pretty convincing. I play mostly BF4 on win 8.1. Thanks.


The BIOS settings listed shouldn't effect your overclock, except for the voltage related ones (vcore, LLC, PLL overvoltage, Turbo boost, etc.), and possibly BCLK. I'd start with disabling HPET, as it makes a huge difference and go from there. I went from ~130-500+DPC to almost constant ~30DPC disabling that alone, which is good enough for me. The OS definitely feels snappier too.


----------



## bigpoppapump

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leakydog*
> 
> Hi, I have gigabyte MB and before i tried disabled any power saving functions in BIOS, DPC latency checker show me only yellow bars - about constantly 1000. After changes in BIOS it was better, mostly green bars, but unstable between 8 - 1000 nanosec. I don't know how to set these voltages and still enjoy my 4.4 Ghz OC (i5-2500k). Could anybody help me if I post there photos of BIOS screens? Is it possible to get stable 8 nano secs. all the time? I know this DCP latency checker is not really accurate, but still looks pretty convincing. I play mostly BF4 on win 8.1. Thanks.


DCP Latency Checker doesn't work in Windows 8. Try LatencyMon instead.


----------



## leakydog

ok thanks both. What is more important in LatencyMon? I guess more lower and stable values are better, right?

edit:
after disabling HPET, latencymon shows something between 50-170

Should I disable Isochronous Support settings in BIOS?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> Some new XXX player = Killing Machine, Kills - 90
> 
> 
> 
> People pre-shooting me, 16 K - 30 D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where / how can I find this = PC Clock Frequencies v3.1.1.13 ?


Use latencymon instead, is better in every single way


----------



## leakydog

so I disabled any power saving fuction (C1E, C3,C6, EIST, Turbo mode) and everything launch so much faster!  Latencymon now shows something between 10-50 us... so still not very stable because spikes to 100 (max. is 160)

I need Java because school projects, but definitely try to uninstall it later... I don't know if I have time for studying how to manualy set safe voltage in BIOS... Can anyone help me with it? gpu-z shows 1.320 - 1.332 for now (auto voltage).

edit:
I can disable LLC overvoltage but in PLL settings is only AUTO or NORMAL or exact values

I set LLC to disable, PLL to NORMAL, cpu voltage to 1.330 (1.308 in gpu-z) and Latencymon shows still same results so I guess I will return these settings to AUTO, because I already know it's rock stable


----------



## Curleyyy

In addition to OP's post, how relevant and or would some of the tweaks mentioned in the link below be of any use / make a difference?

I'll highlight some of the things mentioned.

1.) _"Download Razer Game Booster and do all the tweaks... This also does *dot net tweaks* and many more._
*I could only assume he's talking about Microsoft .NET - though what tweaks would they be?*

2.) "Windows Timer Resolution. Your computer will now update every half a millisecond instead of a full second. Lowers DPC latency!"
*I think he also means to keep this program running at all times?*

3.) tcp/ip optimizer
*Do these actually work / make a difference? I've seen them around for a while. I think ASUS has something that tweaks this too.*

4.) mouse hovertime to 30 ms
*no idea if this would actually do anything, im looking into it more*

5.) setting your sound to 44100 khz and 24bit creates less interference with dpc latency?

6.) disabling ipv6 (if you're not using it) in the network properties?

Source - ( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=227353834 )

EDIT: After enabling Set Timer Resolution to the proposed 0.5 (which for me is 0.488) I noticed DPC Latency Checker to flatline compared to before it was enabled on (0.977)


----------



## thizito

Razer Game Booster > r0ach


----------



## Pionir

Ok, thanks guys, I will probably use both.

Because of this I'm busy entire weekend







, help is appreciated









BCLK on my Asrock Z77 Pro 3 can be set 100.0 , there is no 100.00 option (I have not disabled the option as C1E, C3,C6, EIST, Turbo mode ) ;


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I don't understand, do I need to turn off HT? ( CPU-Z is with HT Off )

and how many V to manually set Vcore for 2600K ( 3.8 - 4 GHz )?


----------



## Quantum Reality

The C-state disabling seems to especially work well in Windows 8 for some machines. When I ran Win8 on my Q6700, I found that disabling EIST and C-states really made my system a lot smoother.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> Ok, thanks guys, I will probably use both.
> 
> Because of this I'm busy entire weekend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , help is appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BCLK on my Asrock Z77 Pro 3 can be set 100.0 , there is no 100.00 option (I have not disabled the option as C1E, C3,C6, EIST, Turbo mode ) ;
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand, do I need to turn off HT? ( CPU-Z is with HT Off )
> 
> and how many V to manually set Vcore for 2600K ( 3.8 - 4 GHz )?


Id just set it on offset on the cpu.. +0.005v should do it no problem (my 2500k is on +0.005v on Turbo boost and -0.010v overall for 4.5ghz)


----------



## Pionir

Ok, I started to fine-tune the system, results are promising









I turned off all the C options and the truth is, it is better on Windows 8.1 Update, thank you Quantum Reality.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









I can not change Turbo Boost option , it is AUTO.

What to do with these BIOS options ;

Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch Enabling/disabling ?
Hardware Prefetcher
No-Execute memory Protection
CPU Thermal Throttling ( this is probably Thermal Monitor = off ? )


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> I can not change Turbo Boost option , it is AUTO.
> 
> What to do with these BIOS options ;
> 
> Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch Enabling/disabling ?
> Hardware Prefetcher
> No-Execute memory Protection
> CPU Thermal Throttling ( this is probably Thermal Monitor = off ? )


Turbo Boost option grey's out when you manually set your CPU's frequency.
Cache Line Prefetch > leave enabled
no execute mem protection > disabled
cpu thermal thrott > off


----------



## Pionir

OK, thanks.

I disabled most of the options, this is how it looks when I play Battlefield online ;


----------



## Curleyyy

Sweet Jesus, looks like it got a lot worse?

When you run DPC Latency Checker just on the desktop ( no other applications / games open ) does it peak as high as that?


----------



## bigpoppapump

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> OK, thanks.
> 
> I disabled most of the options, this is how it looks when I play Battlefield online ;


DPC Latency Checker doesn't work on WIndows 8, use LatencyMon instead.


----------



## Lust

hey roach just wanted your advice.

when installing chipset drivers, which driver should i install exactly for a z87 motherboard?

also i have a gtx 680 graphics card with the 344.11 driver. is this the one without input lag? and would you recommend a different driver besides this one? cause i see there are some settings that are not listed in your screenshot


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> hey roach just wanted your advice.
> 
> when installing chipset drivers, which driver should i install exactly for a z87 motherboard?
> 
> also i have a gtx 680 graphics card with the 344.11 driver. is this the one without input lag? and would you recommend a different driver besides this one? cause i see there are some settings that are not listed in your screenshot


Well, the only real benefit of staying on Win 7 now that I can find is if you want to run with DWM disabled. Otherwise, Win 8.1 should probably auto detect Z87 chipset and you wouldn't need to use Intel Chipset Driver. If you plan to stay on Win 7, just use chipset driver 10+. There's no benefit using the older ones anymore.

And yea, I would probably use 344.11 for a 680 GTX.


----------



## Pionir

I know for W8, I read the description. Anyway, gives some guidance and that's why I wrote that I will use both programs.

A little problem is that I do not understand the results obtained with LatencyMon, so here's a picture ;



and here are the results today ;



This jump is due to mouse movements, I have not uninstalled the mouse software yet, A4TECH X7-F7 Oscar software.

The most important thing for me is the first reaction when I press LMB.

Sometimes I feel like I pressed the mouse, but he (mouse) do not react = do not shoot, die with my finger on the mouse without firing single shot.


----------



## Curleyyy

Is it possible that by turning off any of those USB native/3.0/etc settings, could that make USB data transfer slower? CAuse after applying some of them my internet coincidentially went from 1.9 mb/s to 1.2 mb/s


----------



## Lust

and for the mionix avior 7000 what firmware and software versions do you recommend? And should I keep the mouse software installed? If you could share some of your knowledge to make sure this mouse is performing at its best I'd deeply appreciate it


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Is it possible that by turning off any of those USB native/3.0/etc settings, could that make USB data transfer slower? CAuse after applying some of them my internet coincidentially went from 1.9 mb/s to 1.2 mb/s


If you're using a built in wifi card that runs over USB 3 maybe, otherwise no.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> and for the mionix avior 7000 what firmware


v3.38
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> This jump is due to mouse movements


Any heavy I/O device will cause DPC to spike high unless it runs in MSI mode. It's hard to say just what devices will do so. I think many USB 2.0 controllers have a problem doing it, but I hear lots of USB 3.0 controllers will do it. You will also brick the OS install if you try one and it doesn't work.

AMD video cards like the r9 290 run in MSI mode by default, while Nvidia cards don't. Nvidia GPUs can be forced to do so, but from my limited testing, the Nvidia GPU felt better mouse-wise in normal, line based interrupt mode. Intel ethernet also runs MSI mode by default, otherwise your DPC would probably be spiking all over the place much more than it does.

Many Linux builds also seem to toss everything into MSI mode. I wish I could get a reply from Nvidia or AMD as to why one GPU brand runs MSI mode and the other doesn't.


----------



## Lust

and is upgrading from 7 to 8.1 really worth it? and are there guides on here that can show me how to optimize it as best as possible and to change the interface similar to 7?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> and is upgrading from 7 to 8.1 really worth it? and are there guides on here that can show me how to optimize it as best as possible and to change the interface similar to 7?


There are pluses and minuses. One of the biggest benefits is that there's a much smaller difference in mouse movement between desktop and full screen games on Win8. Full screen apps in Win7 actually feel laggier than full screen apps in Win8 to me, which is why I generally run borderless window mode on Win7 games.

Another benefit is that you can overclock the monitor refresh rate on Win8, and when switching to a full screen app, the refresh rate stays the same instead of switching back to 60hz like on Win7. As I said earlier though, Win7 does get you the option to disable DWM entirely, which many people might like, as it gives you more of a Windows XP mouse feel.


----------



## r0ach

I did a fast step by step Win8.1 install guide and added it to main post for people that want everything listed in order and want to get an install up and running as fast as possible:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1528004/the-forbidden-topic-in-mouse-discussion/90#post_23254480


----------



## r0ach

Added to original post:

*Why you should use Legacy instead of UEFI boot*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1529750/uefi-boot-clown-cursor


----------



## Scorpion667

So I went back to Win7 so that I can use Display - No Scaling just to find out that - it was the Lightboost hack (Toasty X) that forced me into GPU - No scaling. Dammit. Might as well go back to Win 8 as it will probably work there too without LB.


----------



## Tivan

I turned of HPET and made my ram 1600 CL7, actually made osu feel weird till I changed offset from 25ms to 20ms.

But I'm really bad at osu and don't know if I'm even on spot with the right notes with these settings so c;


----------



## leakydog

is there anyone with asux xonar dx/xd sound card? after these r0ach BIOS optimizations everything feels snappier, but my sound card get bugged much more often... It seems like there is a bug in firmware of this card that force volume down on right side and only temporary fix for this is reset PC or disable/enable sound card in device manager. It happens almost every day now. Before r0ach tweaks only twice a month or something like that.

Could you tell which settings in BIOS is possible reason for this? thank you.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leakydog*
> 
> is there anyone with asux xonar dx/xd sound card? after these r0ach BIOS optimizations everything feels snappier, but my sound card get bugged much more often... It seems like there is a bug in firmware of this card that force volume down on right side and only temporary fix for this is reset PC or disable/enable sound card in device manager. It happens almost every day now. Before r0ach tweaks only twice a month or something like that.
> 
> Could you tell which settings in BIOS is possible reason for this? thank you.


I have one, but its not plugged in due to buyers remorse on the Creative Z, heh.

Did you try the UNi Xonar Drivers?


----------



## leakydog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> I have one, but its not plugged in due to buyers remorse on the Creative Z, heh.
> 
> Did you try the UNi Xonar Drivers?


yes I'm using UNi Xonar 1822 v1.72


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leakydog*
> 
> yes I'm using UNi Xonar 1822 v1.72


Mhm, can try updating the drivers, thats about all i can think of except doing a full reinstall, before doing the "tweaks", to see if it happens on a clean one.

All i can say is that i never had that issue ever on any sound card, including the DX of course.


----------



## leakydog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Mhm, can try updating the drivers, thats about all i can think of except doing a full reinstall, before doing the "tweaks", to see if it happens on a clean one.
> 
> All i can say is that i never had that issue ever on any sound card, including the DX of course.


Weird. It could be caused by my motherboard or Gigabyte mobos in general. When I did tweaks in BIOS I also set feature named Isochronous support to disable. I will try to enable it again and will see if it helps. New clean install of UNi Xonar 1822 v1.75a r2 didn't.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leakydog*
> 
> Weird. It could be caused by my motherboard or Gigabyte mobos in general. When I did tweaks in BIOS I also set feature named Isochronous support to disable. I will try to enable it again and will see if it helps. New clean install of UNi Xonar 1822 v1.75a r2 didn't.


Ah well, one thing less to eliminate heh

I dont have that item in my motherboards UEFI so, cant help you there, sorry (im using ASRock)


----------



## tekwiz99

hey roach,
what about the dsr settings after certain build of nvidia driver. do they have any affect what so ever?


----------



## r0ach

Added to original post:

*Why many people have horrible mouse movement and don't know why in Win 8.1*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1530467/why-many-people-have-horrible-mouse-movement-and-dont-know-why-in-win-8-1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> hey roach,
> what about the dsr settings after certain build of nvidia driver. do they have any affect what so ever?


Yes, I tested DSR only once. It has large input lag for almost no visual benefit. I tested it on Crysis 3 and the only real benefit is less aliasing on the grass. It's mostly a pointless gimmick. It also gave me some kind of scaling bug with bad cursor movement until I uninstalled the driver completely and reinstalled. If you want better graphics, just use AA because that setting isn't worth going near at all.


----------



## chace90

I tried the scaling fix posted on here and it didn't work. Does this mean even with display scaling choosen it is using gpu scaling anyway? This is the only thing stopping me from upgrading to 8.1. Should I upgrade? I already own it btw


----------



## r0ach

Forgot to mention, I'm not sure if this affects all motherboards because I've spent most time on Gigabyte, but this Asus Z77 board requires "CPU C3 State Report" & "CPU C6 State Report" turned on to function properly in Windows 8.1. Certain USB functions do not work properly without them enabled.


----------



## CookieBook

And then W10 happens.


----------



## CookieBook

It seems that a lot of 144Hz panels are not capable of using display scaling. My XL2411T for example tells me that every resolution I use is 1920x1080 @ whatever Hz I set it to (including 60 and below).

This would indicate that the GPU scales the signal before it gets send over to the monitor. I tried this fix: http://www.overclock.net/t/1372936/guide-disable-nvidia-scaling-and-reduce-input-lag but I got the same results.and go

Are there any others willing to test their 144Hz monitors? all you have to do is set your resolution to [email protected], go into your monitors OSD and go to "system, information". If it says [email protected] your monitor is not using display scaling but GPU scaling, if it says [email protected] your monitor supports display scaling.


----------



## Classif13d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Yes, I tested DSR only once. It has large input lag for almost no visual benefit. I tested it on Crysis 3 and the only real benefit is less aliasing on the grass. It's mostly a pointless gimmick. It also gave me some kind of scaling bug with bad cursor movement until I uninstalled the driver completely and reinstalled. If you want better graphics, just use AA because that setting isn't worth going near at all.


This is not completely true... DSR or supersampling is the best way to get rid of aliasing. You also get a better image quality, because it's rendering at a higher resolution. DSR or supersampling is also a good alternative for games which don't have support for native anti-aliasing or use the crappy/blurry FXAA (games like GTA IV, Mass effect, Borderlands series and many more). I have tested it on several games (with 3840x2160 preset) and I was really impressed. I agree, it doesn't improve Crysis 3 that much. But games like Far Cry 3, Saints Row IV & Need for Speed Hot Pursuit for example, look so much better. Whenever you decide to go back to 1080p the games will look like ****. I use DSR only for single player games and I have no input lag, on multi player games on the other hand you will get massive input lag (it's useless for online gaming anyway, performance over quality). Finally, you need to have a powerful graphics card/setup, especially for rendering (newer) games @ 3840x2160 (You have to tweak games with settings to get playable fps, I get around 20fps on Far Cry 3 ultra for example). I like DSR, it's good Nvidia provided DSR as an option to enable or disable it.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *Asus Specific Section*
> 
> *ASM1061 Storage Controller* - Disabled


*I'm not able to disable ASM1016 Storage Controller* - When I do my SSD isn't recognized by the BIOS, only normal mechanical HDD's are displayed.

Also, I've done everything in the OP (except for that one setting above) and my latency is still outside the single or even low double digits.
I'm actually seeing very similar results compared to when I have everything in the BIOS set to default.


----------



## chace90

If you have headphones and don't have the sounblaster z drivers installed you may want to unplug your headphones when you restart your pc. Threre is horrible feeback.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> *I'm not able to disable ASM1016 Storage Controller* - When I do my SSD isn't recognized by the BIOS, only normal mechanical HDD's are displayed.
> 
> Also, I've done everything in the OP (except for that one setting above) and my latency is still outside the single or even low double digits.
> I'm actually seeing very similar results compared to when I have everything in the BIOS set to default.


Which means you have your SSD plugged into the wrong port. It should be plugged into the native Intel SATA port instead of the 3rd party controller. If you have your SATA ports facing towards you, generally, the two ports on the far right are not native Intel ports, while the two to the left of those ports are SATA 6 Intel ports.

The DPC on my Asus P8Z77-V board goes as low as 1.x while using a PS/2 keyboard, and 2 while using USB keyboard. If you can't disable HPET, it should go as low as 28-32ish.

Also for the ASUS boards as mentioned in the original post:

*On the Z77 Asus boards, Win 8.1 (and possibly 7) doesn't work properly with certain USB functions if you disable "CPU C3 State Report" & "CPU C6 State Report", so keep those two enabled"*


----------



## Curleyyy

You brilliant man! Thank you for pointing that out.

I recently cleaned out my system and rearranged the cables, and didn't notice that I had plugged them into the wrong Sata ports.

Thank you!


----------



## Zahix

Disabling HPET on Maximus 6 hero will give me little audio distortion, specially on headphones. I'm using its onboard audio (Realtek).


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> It seems that a lot of 144Hz panels are not capable of using display scaling. My XL2411T for example tells me that every resolution I use is 1920x1080 @ whatever Hz I set it to (including 60 and below).
> 
> This would indicate that the GPU scales the signal before it gets send over to the monitor. I tried this fix: http://www.overclock.net/t/1372936/guide-disable-nvidia-scaling-and-reduce-input-lag but I got the same results.and go
> 
> Are there any others willing to test their 144Hz monitors? all you have to do is set your resolution to [email protected], go into your monitors OSD and go to "system, information". If it says [email protected] your monitor is not using display scaling but GPU scaling, if it says [email protected] your monitor supports display scaling.


XL2411Z here, normally @ 1920 x 1080 @ 120Hz w/ Vertical Total 1502, which is reported in the OSD as 1920 x 1080 @ 60Hz as expected.

I was defining a custom resolution in NVIDIA control panel so I can try running TF2 @ 1600 x 900 @ 120Hz w/ Vertical Total 1251, to test out FPS difference. When I enabled this new custom resolution in NVIDIA control panel to test it on the Windows desktop however, it was actually being reported on the BenQ OSD as 1600 x 900 @ 60Hz, somewhat to my amazement. It was scaled full-screen, so it seems like I am actually getting the preferred Display scaling and not GPU scaling, though it was a little curious to me that it was being scaled full-screen even though I have Display - No Scaling in NVIDIA control panel. Similarly when I started TF2 using appropriate command-line options to direct it to a full-screen, 1600 x 900 @ 120Hz resolution, after having stored the NVIDIA custom resolution, it was scaled to normal 1920 x 1080 size and BenQ OSD reported 1600 x 900 @ 60Hz.

Honestly I was a little surprised at this result because it seems like everything is always reported as 1920 x 1080 @ 60Hz. I had just ran ToastyX's newest NVIDIA pixel clock patcher, which was updated for the 347.09 NVIDIA driver I'm running, if that is of interest or pertinence.


----------



## Zahix

is this any good?


----------



## Curleyyy

I've noticed a huge thing here.

First image - BIOS Settings are default <> STR is default (1.0)
Second image - BIOS Settings are default <> STR is tweaked (0.5)
Third image - BIOS Settings are tweaked <> STR is default (0.977) - *Notice how it's not (1.0) anymore?*
Fourth image - BIOS Settings are tweaked <> STR is tweaked (0.488) - *Again, notice how it's not (0.5) anymore?*

Also, in the fourth image, there's *no difference in DPC Latency Checker when enabling / disabling STR* (Windows Timer Resolution)


----------



## Zahix

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 62.610571
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: storport.sys - Microsoft Storage Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.003945
Driver with highest ISR total time: storport.sys - Microsoft Storage Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 444.4460
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software Projects Sp.

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.080216
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software

*EDIT: I updated the chipset driver and I have much lower storport.sys latency. around 20. only thing left is the rspLLL64.sys.*


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I've noticed a huge thing here.


I probably wouldn't use any timer resolution changing programs. I thought they might be useful, but they just bug out your computer when multiple programs are trying to change it at once.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I probably wouldn't use any timer resolution changing programs. I thought they might be useful, but they just bug out your computer when multiple programs are trying to change it at once.


Lord corridor here. (Also still waiting for the duel.)

Which programs did it bug out in? ive been running the service for 2 years or so, havent had any issues that wouldent have had otherwise, just my subjective experience.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zahix*
> 
> Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 62.610571
> Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: storport.sys - Microsoft Storage Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.003945
> Driver with highest ISR total time: storport.sys - Microsoft Storage Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 444.4460
> Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software Projects Sp.
> 
> Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.080216
> Driver with highest DPC total execution time: rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software
> 
> *EDIT: I updated the chipset driver and I have much lower storport.sys latency. around 20. only thing left is the rspLLL64.sys.*


What are you measuring here, and how? This looks interesting.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Lord corridor here. (Also still waiting for the duel.)
> 
> Which programs did it bug out in? ive been running the service for 2 years or so, havent had any issues that wouldent have had otherwise, just my subjective experience.


Well, it's pretty clear forcing timer resolution has issues when it causes DPC to go from 2 to being stuck at 30 even after changing back to default timer until reboot. For cookiebook it was much worse, his DPC gets stuck at 500. I've tried several methods of adjusting it, and on my PC, if I have power setting on high and open an HTML5 video then close it, the timer stays at 1.0. So I just do that if I want it lower.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, it's pretty clear forcing timer resolution has issues when it causes DPC to go from 2 to being stuck at 30 even after changing back to default timer until reboot. For cookiebook it was much worse, his DPC gets stuck at 500. I've tried several methods of adjusting it, and on my PC, if I have power setting on high and open an HTML5 video then close it, the timer stays at 1.0. So I just do that if I want it lower.


For me it boots at 1.0 and I don't really notice a difference between 1.0 and 0.5 so I really can't be bothered by it anymore.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, it's pretty clear forcing timer resolution has issues when it causes DPC to go from 2 to being stuck at 30 even after changing back to default timer until reboot. For cookiebook it was much worse, his DPC gets stuck at 500. I've tried several methods of adjusting it, and on my PC, *if I have power setting on high and open an HTML5 video then close it, the timer stays at 1.0. So I just do that if I want it lower.*


Isn't that exactly what this program is doing? lol


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, it's pretty clear forcing timer resolution has issues when it causes DPC to go from 2 to being stuck at 30 even after changing back to default timer until reboot. For cookiebook it was much worse, his DPC gets stuck at 500. I've tried several methods of adjusting it, and on my PC, if I have power setting on high and open an HTML5 video then close it, the timer stays at 1.0. So I just do that if I want it lower.


Im still not hearing any issues here 30µs is still extremely low, and thats on a case by case basis, not all motherboards or setups reacts the same, just because you have yours set up some way with specific software and firmware, does not mean it will react the same on the same hardware but different software or firmware.

Hell, even with the same software and firmware it still might decide that it wants a "lord corridor special candy floss" swampy clown people dpc or whatever you will decide to call this.

It gets stuck on 500DPC because LatencyChecker is pure Trash, stop using that, all the servide does for me is make it more stable at the same, due to margin of error

Again though what issues?, is it swamp related issues, or is it something like crashes, stutters or anything you can reproduce?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Im still not hearing any issues here 30µs is still extremely low


The point is, the programs that change it don't really provide any benefit if my PC is always at 1.0 resolution timer anyway. The programs I used to change it would also give me erratic, non-integer numbers, while I get a solid 1.0 if I let Windows change it.

Also, here's a post you'll love since you use a Steelseries keyboard:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1531608/never-seen-a-keyboard-cause-swamp-cursor-till-the-steelseries-6gv2


----------



## Axaion

When you say 1.0 timer resolution, which one do you mean?, because the standard is 15.66 or something, do you mean 1000µs in stuff like LatencyChecker?, as in the check interval it shows?

I do seriously doubt anyone can feel the difference of 25µs (µs is -MICRO seconds)

So you would need 1000µs for one millisecond (ms)

Are we just naming things here? because that candy floss stand with our duel (which you keep ignoreing, you yellow bellied daffodill) is not going to pay for itself

edit; I dont have that steelseries keyboard, i have the first 6G, its from around 2003 or something


----------



## CookieBook

@r0ach What's your verdict on "threaded optimization" and "shader cache" in the Nvidia control panel options?


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> @r0ach What's your verdict on "threaded optimization" and "shader cache" in the Nvidia control panel options?


I'm no r0ach but I know that Threaded optimization is very bad for input lag from experience. No idea about shader cache though.


----------



## Curleyyy

I tried testing HPET On in the BIOS and Windows, verses completely off and the difference is absolutely incredible. When I turned it on, my CSGO and BF4 felt like I was playing with VSYNC and when I turned it off it felt like I was aiming with an old school Quake game again.


----------



## Zahix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I tried testing HPET On in the BIOS and Windows, verses completely off and the difference is absolutely incredible. When I turned it on, my CSGO and BF4 felt like I was playing with VSYNC and when I turned it off it felt like I was aiming with an old school Quake game again.


Is the rig in your sig the one you tested the HPET off ? Do you always play with vsync off? I honestly didn't feel a difference with hpet off except audio degradation. I will test out more today.
edit: I did not try to turn it off in windows as well. I will try later.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zahix*
> 
> Is the rig in your sig the one you tested the HPET off ? Do you always play with vsync off? I honestly didn't feel a difference with hpet off except audio degradation. I will test out more today.
> edit: I did not try to turn it off in windows as well. I will try later.


Yeah. The rig I tested on is the one in my signature.
Always play with VSYNC off if I'm using the mouse ( fps, mmo, rpg games = off // racing games = on )
Also, give it ago by turning your windows audio speaker properties onto 24bit 44100 / 48000 khz ( quite a few people say that makes a difference to input lag, reduced micro stutter and also some games don't react well with it on 24 bit 192000 khz )
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zahix*
> 
> edit: I did not try to turn it off in windows as well. I will try later.


1.) Open CMD
2.) Type "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock"
3.) Reboot
4.) Disable HPET in BIOS
5.) Reboot


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Also, give it ago by turning your windows audio speaker properties onto 24bit 44100 / 48000 khz ( quite a few people say that makes a difference to input lag, reduced micro stutter and also some games don't react well with it on 24 bit 192000 khz )


I tested this before and think I remember noticing a significant difference even changing it between smaller numbers like DVD vs CD quality (44 vs 48 I think). The Windows audio stack must be a real piece of crap.

Then there's that audio option that lowers sound by 80% if you receive a call on your PC (who the hell does that, this isn't Star Trek), and that option seemed to change movement a large noticeable percent as well. I got tired of screwing with the Windows audio stack and left everything at default because changing many of the settings doesn't make the mouse feel better, just way different than normal.

It's like some of those Windows services you can test and some them you would think would just lower input lag, but turning them off makes the mouse wildly uncontrollable for some reason. That's why I try to keep the service list in the original post conservative.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> I'm no r0ach but I know that Threaded optimization is very bad for input lag from experience. No idea about shader cache though.


Threaded optimization has been bad for input response for years and I've never really noticed a benefit from having it on. I think I tested it on Crysis 3 recently and saw no change, so if it does nothing in Crysis 3, it's probably not gonna do much for anything else.

For shader cache, I'm not super positive on it yet. It doesn't seem to make a very big difference with it on or off mouse wise. Technically it should just lower stutter in some situations and lower load time occasionally, but I run with it off at the moment.


----------



## Aleckazee

Hi everyone, I just followed the guide, changed most of the Asus specific stuff plus a couple windows services. I really didn't think it would make any difference, but it did seem to improve the responsiveness for both the cursor and buttons, before the mouse felt as if it had a dampening affect on it, in particular in games. So far I've noticed a big difference in Tribes: ascend, but I didn't test the input lag before I started tweaking so I guess it _could_ be a placebo








I've got an Asus z77e-i deluxe/wd mobo and TT eSports Black Gaming mouse btw if anyone's interested.
I think i might do a bit more testing tomorrow







I'm interested to see if a ps3 controller connected via bt will behave any different? or is it just mice that suffer input lag?
I'm not too sure what I'm meant to be looking for in LatencyMon, can anyone tell from the screenshot if those numbers are considered decent?



I had palemoon open in the background, not sure if that makes a difference.


----------



## cookieboyeli

So R0ach, what are your conclusions about the 347.09 driver? (Not that I'd roll back since this one is faster by a few fps and that's better for visual input lag).


----------



## Zahix

HPET off in Windows/bios gave me noticeable reduction in input lag and increased smoothness on single and crossfire mode. Games tried: CSGO, bioshock Infinite.
I have all power savings off except C states with manual voltage.


----------



## Pionir

Hi, R0ach









I have not tested, but what do you think about this ( Windows 8.1 mouse lag fix for all games ) ;
....


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pionir*
> 
> Hi, R0ach
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not tested, but what do you think about this ( Windows 8.1 mouse lag fix for all games ) ;
> ....


That might be referring to the polling rate problem, where microsoft was trying to use ~125hz a lot of the time on ~1000hz mice for some very odd reasons


----------



## Pionir

+ 1 REP for you r0ach, you helped me, there is a guy who has up to 230 kills per game, up to 30% accuracy







- I have to catch up ! Thank you









I can confirm better gaming experience and faster system response time.

It is take about 0,000001 ns







, so fast that I can't notice. faster than the blink of an eye to change from Metro -> Desktop, switching between browser tabs, and most importantly-mouse...

Although sometimes I feel as if something is missing ( "they" kill me fast and alot







) , therefore I will ask new questions in order to set new boundaries and evaluate the current situation.

My mouse is 1000 Hz


----------



## fxniqab

@r0achWhat os is best in terms of mouse responsiveness xp, 7 or 8.1?


----------



## cookieboyeli

R0ach, if you're still alive, I'd like to know your conclusions on 347.09 WQHL.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookieboyeli*
> 
> R0ach, if you're still alive, I'd like to know your conclusions on 347.09 WQHL.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1530909/new-nvidia-beta-driver-is-lowest-mouse-latency-driver-so-far-for-maxwell-347-09


----------



## cookieboyeli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1530909/new-nvidia-beta-driver-is-lowest-mouse-latency-driver-so-far-for-maxwell-347-09


How are we supposed to know about these things if he doesn't post here. Nobody checks the first post unless he says something.

Anyway, thanks!


----------



## Curleyyy

I check the thread frequently. It's not up to him to let you know when he posts something.


----------



## Curleyyy

http://www.overclock.net/t/1529341/the-first-real-test-for-measuring-input-lag/0_100


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1529341/the-first-real-test-for-measuring-input-lag/0_100


Thanks for the link.
I did the test and I can notice 15ms input lag 21 out of 25 times (first try ever taking the test).
I got 18/25 on first test for 10ms, but 16 on the next two. Hmm.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> I did the test and I can notice 15ms input lag 21 out of 25 times (first try ever taking the test).
> I got 18/25 on first test for 10ms, but 16 on the next two. Hmm.


I got 23/25 for 15ms and 23/25 for 10ms :3
Only 14/25 for 5ms but I feel like I could pass it with a different mouse (Avior is heavy as hell and possibly smoothed)


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I got 23/25 for 15ms and 23/25 for 10ms :3
> Only 14/25 for 5ms but I feel like I could pass it with a different mouse (Avior is heavy as hell and possibly smoothed)


how do u guys take the "test"? i dont see anywhere on his post where u can test lag yourself


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> how do u guys take the "test"? i dont see anywhere on his post where u can test lag yourself


It's the lag test on blurbusters forum


----------



## cookieboyeli

I'm getting 22/25 for 25ms consistently, but I cannot get more than 15 right at 22ms. I tried so hard like 5 times and couldn't get any lower. Does this mean my mouse could be screwing up the test? (Razer Deathadder 2013)

Or am I just slow in the head?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned within this behemoth of a thread, but the IRQ Resource of the mouse is an important consideration. Before checking this, mine was on IRQ 16, which is the same as both my GPU and sound card. While I couldn't personally change the IRQ for the GPU or sound card because there's only 1 available slot for each on my mobo, you can change the IRQ Resource of your mouse by changing the USB port is plugged into.

After I tested a few ports, I got my mouse on its own IRQ 23. This not only made the mini-spikes in DPC latency checker and LatencyMon fewer and farther between, demonstrating improved input lag, it also polls much more consistently @ 1000Hz in MouseMovementRecorder. Before there was ~2 strange polling deviations around 900-950Hz and 1050-1000Hz every 50 polling measurements during constant high speed mouse movement, and now it sticks to 1000Hz +/- 5Hz like a laser beam.

Here's how I went about checking the IRQ resource and changing it:

1) Windows key + R, type devmgmt.msc and hit enter, then View > Devices by connection. Find your USB host controllers and open them up until your find 'HID-compliant mouse' as a 'USB Input Device'. Then right-click the USB host controller that you found it under ('Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller' if you're using the Microsoft driver), Properties > Resources tab, and look for the number in parentheses at the end of the IRQ line.

2) Windows key + R, type msinfo32.exe and hit enter. Under Hardware Resources > IRQs, you can see which other devices your mouse's USB host controller is sharing IRQ Resources with. Ideally, it would have an IRQ Resource all its own, but you definitely want to try and have it on a different one than your GPU, sound card, in-use network adapter, and possibly even USB keyboard (I use PS/2 to avoid this one altogether).

3) If your mouse is on a conflicting IRQ Resource, swap it to another USB 2.0 port** and repeat these steps until you find an IRQ Resource all its own or at least on the least-conflicting one available.

4) [Optional] Tweet @AlGore that you won the internet. Laugh hardily.

**I have USB 3.0 disabled in the BIOS options as r0ach recommends.


----------



## Scorpion667

Thanks for the guide.
It's not possible on my motherboard.

ANYTHING I plug in to ANY of my 8x USB2.0 port (rear IO panel) will always go under the same Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller (IRQ 23)
There is another Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller (IRQ 21) but nothing I plug in to any USB port will pick that one up. Asmedia USB3 is disabled in the BIOS and this chipset does not have native USB3.



I'm not willing to install motherboard/usb drivers to test, I always leave everything on default Microsoft drivers except for GPU

Oh well


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

That's a little strange that none of the ports seemed to be linked to the other controller. I'm right with you on using MS drivers for USB. On my motherboard, the 2 USB ports beside my keyboard PS/2 port were both the conflicted IRQ, while the ones nearer the onboard ethernet and such were the good IRQ. I never tested the blue ones next to them ('USB 3 ports'...I suppose they revert to USB 2 when 3 is disabled) nor the front panel ones.

Sorry I can't really help you further, as I don't really know much more about IRQ than what I posted there, which really ain't much ._.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Maybe for *****s and giggles you could disable in Device Manager the USB controller that seems to control everything and restart. See if that somehow forces the other one to do something besides setting firmly on its thumb. I doubt it, but it's something to at least try that wouldn't require any driver installation changes. Though I'm not exactly sure how you would go about re-enabling the USB controller if it was your only means of using your USB devices


----------



## M00NIE

Is there a workaround for getting my iphones to connect to my pc without using Intel Management Engine Interface? Device manager list PCI simple communications controller as no drivers installed.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Maybe for *****s and giggles you could disable in Device Manager the USB controller that seems to control everything and restart. See if that somehow forces the other one to do something besides setting firmly on its thumb. I doubt it, but it's something to at least try that wouldn't require any driver installation changes. Though I'm not exactly sure how you would go about re-enabling the USB controller if it was your only means of using your USB devices


I'll try that, cheers. I was thinking also if I populate enough ports before plugging mouse, it might kick the later ones to the other hub/IRQ. I think I only had 4-5 USB devices plugged in total when I tested yesterday.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cookieboyeli*
> 
> R0ach, if you're still alive, I'd like to know your conclusions on 347.09 WQHL.


I expected it to be the same as the beta, but when I installed it, it was slower. I tried it late at night and uninstalled it fast afterwards, so it's possible I forgot to re-disable Nvidia virtual audio or something, but that was my initial results. I haven't put much effort into testing the WHQL.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I think I only had 4-5 USB devices plugged in total when I tested yesterday.


Uwotm8

I only have 1 USB device plugged in. My beautiful baby Naos 7000 shall have naught to compete with the get every USB resource it needs :3


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Uwotm8
> 
> I only have 1 USB device plugged in. My beautiful baby Naos 7000 shall have naught to compete with the get every USB resource it needs :3


phone dock, hdd dock, mouse, kb and a usb stick I was testing with
where the $%^&* am I supposed to plug them in then? I don't have USB ports at the back of my head lol

I MIGHT put the HDD back inside the PC at some point but I might be ripping my hair out (again) after. WD Black are SO goddamn loud, it resonates through my case, in to my desk
If I had a laptop it would be a different story - this is my *do everything on* PC. I try not to use my work laptop for personal stuff, they log everything


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> phone dock, hdd dock, mouse, kb and a usb stick I was testing with


I noticed a negative effect on cursor movement plugging in PC gamepads (some brands were much worse than others) and USB sticks, so there's no way I would have all that stuff plugged in. Maybe once you pass a certain threshold of devices adding more isn't noticeable, but that's not territory I'm wanting to explore.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> phone dock, hdd dock, mouse, kb and a usb stick I was testing with
> where the $%^&* am I supposed to plug them in then? I don't have USB ports at the back of my head lol
> 
> I MIGHT put the HDD back inside the PC at some point but I might be ripping my hair out (again) after. WD Black are SO goddamn loud, it resonates through my case, in to my desk
> If I had a laptop it would be a different story - this is my *do everything on* PC. I try not to use my work laptop for personal stuff, they log everything


I would advise either only plugging in USB devices on an as-needed basis or pursuing the possibility of getting USB ports surgically implanted in the back of your head (because having them in the front would look daft, amirite?)

Another option would be to pick up a PCI USB controller so you can separate your input USB devices and utility USB devices onto two separate USB controllers.


----------



## pox02

does asus p8z77-M pro have good mosue movment?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

To show some evidence of the important of IRQ Resource tweaking, here's Device Managerand msinfo32.exe when I have my mouse plugged in next to the PS/2 port where you would intuitively plug in your mouse, which has my mouse sharing IRQ 16 with my GPU. This resulted in some unsavory polling rate deviations in MouseMovementRecorder during fast movement.



Compare this with plugging my mouse in a USB port near my onboard ethernet jack, granting my mouse its own IRQ 23. Note that this is an ideal IRQ Resource scenario, with my PS/2 keyboard, mouse, GPU, sound card, and network adapter all having their own little slice of IRQ real estate. The MouseMovementRecorder screenie highlights the largest polling deviations I now have during fast movement, post- IRQ tweaking.



It was actually even much worse than this a few days ago. When I first looked into IRQ allocation, I had my GPU, network adapter, mouse, and even keyboard (was using USB instead of PS/2 for it then) all sharing IRQ 16. Not only was this even more detrimental on polling rate deviations than the first example above, but it was also causing occasional rogue BSODs/freezes. This is because I have my GPU on quite a high overclock so I can eek out the FPS I need to maintain good mouse movement in TF2 and CS:GO. So it was being quite disagreeable with having to share its IRQ, even though it was a seemingly stable OC as judged from torture testing. Turns out that it was only stressing the GPU, but in real-world conditions where all four devices on that single IRQ 16 were being stressed, the random and confusing BSOD would sporadically rear its ugly little head. Haven't had a single BSOD or freeze since sorting out my IRQs, which entailed using PS/2 for my keyboard, switching the mouse USB plug-in location so as to change its USB host controller, and buying a new PCI-e network adapter so I could have it too separated from my GPU's IRQ.

And yes, the keen eye might have discerned a naughty little secret that I've been ashamed to admit. I am currently forced to use Wifi, which is far and away the single biggest contributor to my DPC latency and cursor movement stability. I will of course be using ethernet again as soon as I possibly can, though I don't know when that will be right now. Hopefully my little secret doesn't completely invalidate my opinion on input lag to the OCN Mice subforum aristocracy D:


----------



## r0ach

Consolidating the Windows 8.1 install guide here from another thread.

*22 step Windows 8.1 install guide with settings and services changed*:

1) Install Windows 8.1 iso. In the setup menu, I delete all partitions then manually create a new one instead of installing into unpartitioned space.

2) Hit the Windows key + Q, type "user account control", turn off user account control (UAC) then reboot.

3) Click the mouse section in the control panel and turn off acceleration.

4) Run Windows update and reboot. I don't install any updates for Internet explorer or Flash for IE since IE is going to be uninstalled.

5) Open the power icon in the control panel and change it to "high performance" and reboot.

6) Install Intel Chipset driver but don't install Rapid Storage or Intel Management Engine Interface. Reboot after.

7) Install graphics card driver and reboot. Do not install any options except for the driver itself, uncheck everything else. After rebooting from Nvidia drivers, go into the Nvidia scaling tab and change it to "Display - No Scaling" and reboot again. If you change anything in the scaling tab, mouse movement will feel off until you reboot, so you can't toggle back and forth to test between modes to see how each feels.

8) Let the system idle for a few minutes for every service to load, then open a command prompt and type "winsat formal". This is similar to the Windows 7 experience index. It will configure your SSD and graphics properly, etc. Reboot after finished.

9) Open the action center, under the maintenance section where it says, "Check for solutions to problem reports", click settings, then "change report settings for all users", and turn it off to get rid of Windows error reporting.

10) Right click the task bar at the bottom of the screen, go into properties, the only two boxes checked on first page should be "lock the task bar" and "use small taskbar buttons" (optional). On the next tab, "Navigation", the only box checked should be "when I sign in, go straight to the desktop instead of start". On the next page, "Jump lists", both boxes should be unchecked.

11) Hit windows key + C to bring up the charms menu, click settings, then "change pc settings" on the bottom of next page. Go in there and disable pretty much everything like removing all the metro apps, disable app switching, etc. Just about any slider that can be set to "On/Off" is better off in these menus.

12) Hit Windows key + Q to bring up the search box. Type "defrag" in the search box and click "Defrag and optimize your drives". Turn off scheduled defrag.

13) Type Windows Defender in the search box and on the last tab uncheck the "use this application box" to turn windows defender off

14) Open the control panel, click "date and time", click the "internet time" tab, change settings, uncheck the box "Synchronize with an internet time server" and click ok.

15) Open regedit and go to the following key:

Hkey_Local_Machine > System > Current Control Set > Control > Session Manager > Memory Management > Prefetch Parameters

Change the following two settings to "0" instead of "3":

- EnablePrefetcher - unneeded for SSD
- EnableSuperfetch - unneeded for SSD (Winsat should have already removed this key if it detected an SSD as boot driver)

16) Change Nvidia control panel settings to look like the following:



17) Open the control panel, click the system icon, click advanced system settings. On the system protection tab, click the configure button to turn off system restore for all drives. You can't leave it on or you'll have services like volume shadow copy running that will bog down your system. Check it a few days later and make sure it hasn't turned back on. Click the "remote" tab to the right of system protection and turn off the box that says "allow remote assistance connections to this computer" also.

18) Open the services section (control panel > administrative tools) and disable the following services:

- Print Spooler
- Windows Search
- Superfetch
- Human Interface Device Access
- Make sure Windows update service is set to manual and is not running. If Windows update service is running even when set to manual and you haven't opened it, you will need to disable it.

19) Change Background Intelligent Transfer service from automatic to manual in services. It shouldn't start unless you run Windows update.

20) Open Internet Explorer 11 and in the options menu, disable "smooth scrolling" because IE settings affect desktop movement in Win8. Also open the "about" menu and uncheck the automatically install new versions box.

21) Open regedit (right click the windows button and click run and type "regedit"), and go to the following key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker

Change the key from 3 to 4 to disable the time broker service. It's for metro apps in Windows 8 and has a related exe that usually runs all the time.

22) Go into the control panel > programs and features > "Turn Windows Features On/Off" and uninstall the following until the menu looks like this:

- Internet Exploder 11 - first turn off smooth scrolling in the options menu of IE, then turn off automatic updating under the "about" section of IE.
- Print and document services
- SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support
- Windows Location Provider
- Windows Powershell 2.0
- Work folders client
- XPS services
- XPS viewer



23) At this point, these are your last settings to fine tune. I currently use audio out from my Nvidia card for sound (with the default Microsoft driver), so I do not have multiple sound devices in my system.

If you have an additional sound device besides the Nvidia audio out, disabling the Nvidia sound may help. Open the device manager, right click on nvidia virtual audio and disable it (have to do it every time you reinstall Nvidia drivers). You can also disable the Nvidia HDMI audio out under sound section in device manager too. It will be listed as "high definition audio device" and will have the same device instance path as your GPU.


----------



## jtl999

With G402 on Win7 with onboard DPI using no drivers


----------



## leakydog

thanks r0ach  on next reinstall of win 8.1 I will keep up with your guide. I hope you will make these tips in windows 10 too


----------



## Nivity

So when did r0ach start using win8.1? I can think off about 1 milion posts from him flaming the **** out of windows 8/8.1.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> So when did r0ach start using win8.1? I can think off about 1 milion posts from him flaming the **** out of windows 8/8.1.


10/18/14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Welp, hadn't tried Windows 8 in a long time since before 8.1 came out and just did an install of 8.1. It's gotten way better now and I'm probably going to switch. All the Windows 7 updates nowadays are about making the OS compatible with the Win8 user mode/kernel mode driver framework and WDDM 1.3, so you might as well just use the real thing instead now...
> 
> The 8.1 desktop mouse movement is surprisingly much different from 8.0 as well. The 8.0 aero-whatever interface felt more lightweight than the Win7 one, then on 8.1, it's barely noticeable vsync is turned on at all, so they reduced latency further from 8.0.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> how do u guys take the "test"? i dont see anywhere on his post where u can test lag yourself


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QLsya*
> 
> 5. How much input lag can I feel? what does 10ms of input lag feel like?
> try for yourself with this: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1134


----------



## Curleyyy

When the mouse cursor hits the edge of the screen, top, bottom, left and right im given a green highlighting - what does this mean?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> When the mouse cursor hits the edge of the screen, top, bottom, left and right im given a green highlighting - what does this mean?


It means that the sensor is giving a count but the mouse didn't move a pixel, which is expected because the OS does not allow you to move outside of the screen resolution limits. To use that test correctly, you can't touch the edges


----------



## CookieBook

I just tried that "test" on my 60hz laptop with trackpad for funsies and I got 25/25 on 25ms input lag. LOL.


----------



## Curleyyy

What's the go with this app?

_Dimmdrive :: Gaming Ramdrive @ 10,000+ MB/s_

http://store.steampowered.com/app/337070/


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> What's the go with this app?
> 
> _Dimmdrive :: Gaming Ramdrive @ 10,000+ MB/s_
> 
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/337070/


Just RAMDisk Software, is all, overpriced one at that


----------



## Trull

28€... I lol'd.


----------



## CookieBook

hihi


----------



## Bucake

so where's the hell is the 2015 r0ach edition?


----------



## HAGGARD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned within this behemoth of a thread, but the IRQ Resource of the mouse is an important consideration. Before checking this, mine was on IRQ 16, which is the same as both my GPU and sound card. While I couldn't personally change the IRQ for the GPU or sound card because there's only 1 available slot for each on my mobo, you can change the IRQ Resource of your mouse by changing the USB port is plugged into.
> 
> After I tested a few ports, I got my mouse on its own IRQ 23. This not only made the mini-spikes in DPC latency checker and LatencyMon fewer and farther between, demonstrating improved input lag, it also polls much more consistently @ 1000Hz in MouseMovementRecorder. Before there was ~2 strange polling deviations around 900-950Hz and 1050-1000Hz every 50 polling measurements during constant high speed mouse movement, and now it sticks to 1000Hz +/- 5Hz like a laser beam.
> 
> Here's how I went about checking the IRQ resource and changing it:
> 
> 1) Windows key + R, type devmgmt.msc and hit enter, then View > Devices by connection. Find your USB host controllers and open them up until your find 'HID-compliant mouse' as a 'USB Input Device'. Then right-click the USB host controller that you found it under ('Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller' if you're using the Microsoft driver), Properties > Resources tab, and look for the number in parentheses at the end of the IRQ line.
> 
> 2) Windows key + R, type msinfo32.exe and hit enter. Under Hardware Resources > IRQs, you can see which other devices your mouse's USB host controller is sharing IRQ Resources with. Ideally, it would have an IRQ Resource all its own, but you definitely want to try and have it on a different one than your GPU, sound card, in-use network adapter, and possibly even USB keyboard (I use PS/2 to avoid this one altogether).
> 
> 3) If your mouse is on a conflicting IRQ Resource, swap it to another USB 2.0 port** and repeat these steps until you find an IRQ Resource all its own or at least on the least-conflicting one available.
> 
> 4) [Optional] Tweet @AlGore that you won the internet. Laugh hardily.
> 
> **I have USB 3.0 disabled in the BIOS options as r0ach recommends.


Hey, resolving IRQ conflicts sounds pretty worthwhile. Unfortunately I have a similar problem to the one Scorpion667 has. All of my "Standard OpenHCD USB host controllers" are in the same column together with my GPU and no matter which port I use, I can't get my mouse to be registered on the "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB host controllers". See also: http://www.everythingusb.com/hi-speed-usb.html
Quote:


> The USB controller routes signals to the correct controller chip depending on how a device is recognized. Where a device is physically plugged in has no bearing on how it is routed.


I guess you just got lucky that not all of your controllers share the same IRQ#.

My BIOS doesn't allow me to assign non-serial IRQs either. Funny thing is, my keyboard has an external USB hub that is registered on a Standard Enhanced PCI to USB host controller and so will my mouse if I plug it in there, but external hubs are even worse than shared IRQs.
Quote:


> A USB hub has to re-calculate the time left before the next sof (end of the uframe); the small extra delay added by the hardware hub could make the transaction not handled as fast as a device directly connected to the host.


----------



## erobuR

For the fellas who use BENQ 144hz monitors with an outdated card like mine (GTX 470) (or maybe with newer ones also) I recommend using 326.01 drivers, or at least give it a try.

With 326.01 I'm able to choose Display Scaling (8.1 64bit) aaaand everything is butter smooth.


----------



## x7007

What could cause a weird mouse behaviour when moving very very slow and when moving very fast there is over cross. it has happen before but somehow it disappear, and now it is back. I didn't change anything before it happened, every game I played worked properly. nothing from inside the computer was changed, it just happened maybe after turn off or a restart.

Windows 7 x64 Bios non UEFI was migrate from HDD
I7 3770
Asus P8Z77-V
G502 latest firmware + LGS 8.57.145

I tried 3 mouse pads perfectly new, aluminum and cloth. I tried to change mouse feet.

I'm using now the most expensive aluminum pad there is, ModMyMachine SlamePad Aluminium Gaming it's almost or better than the SteelSeries SX. but I still have the problem on it too.

I don't know what to do expect format to windows 8.1 UEFI . One time I saw terrible input lag on the screen using the nvidia 3DTV 3D health test on the 2nd next when the TV request to go 3D mode, it could be refresh rate or something but I didn't check, the 2nd time I went into the 3D health check the mouse was fine.

Testing the mouse using the mouserate.exe shows 1000hz - 1005hz max , no deviations.

I tried USB Legacy disabled, but I need it enabled when sometimes I need Safe mode or other support.

HPET disabled had effect for the best compare to enabled, but not I can't seem to feel the effect.

Can't play any games with that way,, I so hate this issue. I tried Safe mode, the mouse felt the same. I have no route to go on how to check the problem.

One more thing, when I first felt the issue I blow on the mouse sensor and it stopped moving, so I took mouse pad cleaning cloth that I got with HotLine mouse feet and cleaned it and it worked again. Maybe the issue is with the mouse ? need to clean it better or something ?


----------



## CookieBook

Did you try a different mouse?


----------



## erobuR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> What could cause a weird mouse behaviour when moving very very slow and when moving very fast there is over cross. it has happen before but somehow it disappear, and now it is back. I didn't change anything before it happened, every game I played worked properly. nothing from inside the computer was changed, it just happened maybe after turn off or a restart.
> 
> Windows 7 x64 Bios non UEFI was migrate from HDD
> I7 3770
> Asus P8Z77-V
> G502 latest firmware + LGS 8.57.145
> 
> I tried 3 mouse pads perfectly new, aluminum and cloth. I tried to change mouse feet.
> 
> I'm using now the most expensive aluminum pad there is, ModMyMachine SlamePad Aluminium Gaming it's almost or better than the SteelSeries SX. but I still have the problem on it too.
> 
> I don't know what to do expect format to windows 8.1 UEFI . One time I saw terrible input lag on the screen using the nvidia 3DTV 3D health test on the 2nd next when the TV request to go 3D mode, it could be refresh rate or something but I didn't check, the 2nd time I went into the 3D health check the mouse was fine.
> 
> Testing the mouse using the mouserate.exe shows 1000hz - 1005hz max , no deviations.
> 
> I tried USB Legacy disabled, but I need it enabled when sometimes I need Safe mode or other support.
> 
> HPET disabled had effect for the best compare to enabled, but not I can't seem to feel the effect.
> 
> Can't play any games with that way,, I so hate this issue. I tried Safe mode, the mouse felt the same. I have no route to go on how to check the problem.
> 
> One more thing, when I first felt the issue I blow on the mouse sensor and it stopped moving, so I took mouse pad cleaning cloth that I got with HotLine mouse feet and cleaned it and it worked again. Maybe the issue is with the mouse ? need to clean it better or something ?


I think first you need to eliminate software based problems here first. You need to re-install windows for the new components and make sure please that windows is original and not pirated. Some cheekyweeky ways of Windows can cause that also.


----------



## cookieboyeli

While it's true a certain program called a "KMS activator" can create a ton of hard page faults, this only happens during the first 3 minutes after boot. As for other unscrupulous modification I can say with confidence that murphy78 branded widows integrations are unmodified aside from windows updates being added into the install.esd.

It's not strictly for pirates and I would go as far as saying it is a legitimate and legal way of installing windows as during setup you are given the option of entering a valid key it will use and disinclude the KMS activator. This gives you the (massive time saving) advantage of having all updates already integrated when you reach the desktop and being a legitimate, fully functioning version of windows that could not be told apart from any other legitimate functioning version of windows.

That and you don't have to worry about half of the updates failing for no goddamn reason.


----------



## Zahix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> What could cause a weird mouse behaviour when moving very very slow and when moving very fast there is over cross. it has happen before but somehow it disappear, and now it is back. I didn't change anything before it happened, every game I played worked properly. nothing from inside the computer was changed, it just happened maybe after turn off or a restart.
> 
> Windows 7 x64 Bios non UEFI was migrate from HDD
> I7 3770
> Asus P8Z77-V
> G502 latest firmware + LGS 8.57.145
> 
> I tried 3 mouse pads perfectly new, aluminum and cloth. I tried to change mouse feet.
> 
> I'm using now the most expensive aluminum pad there is, ModMyMachine SlamePad Aluminium Gaming it's almost or better than the SteelSeries SX. but I still have the problem on it too.
> 
> I don't know what to do expect format to windows 8.1 UEFI . One time I saw terrible input lag on the screen using the nvidia 3DTV 3D health test on the 2nd next when the TV request to go 3D mode, it could be refresh rate or something but I didn't check, the 2nd time I went into the 3D health check the mouse was fine.
> 
> Testing the mouse using the mouserate.exe shows 1000hz - 1005hz max , no deviations.
> 
> I tried USB Legacy disabled, but I need it enabled when sometimes I need Safe mode or other support.
> 
> HPET disabled had effect for the best compare to enabled, but not I can't seem to feel the effect.
> 
> Can't play any games with that way,, I so hate this issue. I tried Safe mode, the mouse felt the same. I have no route to go on how to check the problem.
> 
> One more thing, when I first felt the issue I blow on the mouse sensor and it stopped moving, so I took mouse pad cleaning cloth that I got with HotLine mouse feet and cleaned it and it worked again. Maybe the issue is with the mouse ? need to clean it better or something ?


Your monitor could simply have alot of input lag. Are you using a TV or a non-gaming monitor maybe?

EDIT: Find any other monitor at your reach and plug it to your pc and check the mouse movement.


----------



## x7007

the funny thing that I tried on a piece of paper and I didn't feel the issue anymore. why the F eveytime I changed mouse feet it is slower than wore down mouse feet. I am using the bloody Hotline competetion mouse feet. the issue is the mouse feet now. the mouse pad modmymachine is really smooth with tons of control. same but better than steelseries sx.


----------



## propanity

edit


----------



## HiTechPixel

For those who give a damn and pretty much only plays CS:GO *and you have an Nvidia card*, try Linux. No acceleration and much, much less input lag than Windows. Also, if you have an Nvidia card and you use the proprietary Nvidia driver then in many cases you can get better performance on Linux. Plus it's free so it doesn't hurt to try.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> For those who give a damn and pretty much only plays CS:GO *and you have an Nvidia card*, try Linux. No acceleration and much, much less input lag than Windows. Also, if you have an Nvidia card and you use the proprietary Nvidia driver then in many cases you can get better performance on Linux. Plus it's free so it doesn't hurt to try.


I tried it, didn't like the fact that I got only 200 FPS.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I tried it, didn't like the fact that I got only 200 FPS.


Yeah because you really need 200 fps for your 200hz monitor...


----------



## HAGGARD

Monitor refresh rate does not bottleneck benefits of higher framerates. I thought that was widely established by now.
CS:GO on Linux sounds interesting and with Valve concentrating on their games' Linux implementation due to steam OS which is practically a Linux distribution it could become more attractive in the future. Can't see how it would affect latency though as the main software latency factor on optimized Windows systems still is the NVIDIA driver that afaik Linux builds use as well.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> For those who give a damn and pretty much only plays CS:GO *and you have an Nvidia card*, try Linux. No acceleration and much, much less input lag than Windows. Also, if you have an Nvidia card and you use the proprietary Nvidia driver then in many cases you can get better performance on Linux. Plus it's free so it doesn't hurt to try.


Yeah, I think I already stated that somewhere. Linux cursor movement feeling (as soon as it's configured properly) is awesome.
For systems that use systemd and Xorg to *completely disable any sort of acceleration/deceleration*, create the following file:

Code:



Code:


/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-mouse-acceleration.conf

with the following contents:

Code:



Code:


Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "My Mouse"
        MatchIsPointer "yes"
        Option "AccelerationProfile" "-1"
        Option "AccelerationScheme" "none"
EndSection

I had a funny bug during matchmaking once though when I could kinda see through walls. Well, the whole map bitmaps were messed up and kinda flying around...


----------



## jtl999

Say I were to do a fresh install of Windows 7 using a legal copy, what updates would I avoid for mouse response? (if any)


----------



## CookieBook

I like to never get below 240 FPS, if I go any lower I'll feel it.


----------



## Zerrius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I like to never get below 240 FPS, if I go any lower I'll feel it.


Personally, going too much above my refresh rate makes me feel the latency/input lag even more. I always cap my fps to about 5 above refresh rate.
On 144hz I cap 150.

BTW, can USB headsets cause problems?
Since upgrading from my good old sennheiser 3.5mm to USB, it feels like my game runs worse, less fps, more stutter, and choppy playback.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Yeah, I think I already stated that somewhere. Linux cursor movement feeling (as soon as it's configured properly) is awesome.
> For systems that use systemd and Xorg to *completely disable any sort of acceleration/deceleration*, create the following file:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-mouse-acceleration.conf
> 
> with the following contents:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Section "InputClass"
> Identifier "My Mouse"
> MatchIsPointer "yes"
> Option "AccelerationProfile" "-1"
> Option "AccelerationScheme" "none"
> EndSection
> 
> I had a funny bug during matchmaking once though when I could kinda see through walls. Well, the whole map bitmaps were messed up and kinda flying around...


Would this also effectively do the same? From this page: http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2mo96u/comprehensive_csgo_linux_guide_with_steamdesktop/

xinput ## find your mouse listed and note its id number, we'll call it X, then run
xinput list-props X ## with your mouse id number. search the list for 'default accel profile' and find the number 250-300 next to it. we'll call that Y
xinput set-prop X Y -1 ## using the id for your mouse followed by the id for your accel profile, we will set it to the value '-1' to disable all accel.


----------



## HAGGARD

Just use CS:GO's own raw input cvar.
Quote:


> BTW, can USB headsets cause problems?
> Since upgrading from my good old sennheiser 3.5mm to USB, it feels like my game runs worse, less fps, more stutter, and choppy playback.


Definitely. USB headsets have a built-in DAC and amplifier, they create a lot of traffic and demand on your hubs (affecting your mouse) and the drivers you get for them are monstrous. With audio being as complex and data-heavy, audio components and software often are the cause of various problems. There's not a real solution either. In order to be able to have no sound component in your system, you'd have to use an external USB DAC with kernel streaming support, but on top of the mentioned hub strain there's APIs that require dedicated sound devices for audio to work. Using S/PDIF requires you to leave your (onboard) sound card enabled because that handles both the optical and coaxial outs.

I think in that regard r0ach's efforts in terms of finding light and stable sound cards and driver sets is somewhat legit. When I uninstalled and disabled all of my sound components I could definitely notice a difference. In performance and stability mainly, not necessarily input lag, but still significant.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> Just use CS:GO's own raw input cvar.


Haha, no. CS:GO's implementation of raw input is horrible.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Would this also effectively do the same? From this page: http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2mo96u/comprehensive_csgo_linux_guide_with_steamdesktop/
> 
> xinput ## find your mouse listed and note its id number, we'll call it X, then run
> xinput list-props X ## with your mouse id number. search the list for 'default accel profile' and find the number 250-300 next to it. we'll call that Y
> xinput set-prop X Y -1 ## using the id for your mouse followed by the id for your accel profile, we will set it to the value '-1' to disable all accel.


I guess. It looks like it does. At least the AccelProfile setting to -1.
Maybe there's another command for AccelerationScheme "none". Like: xinput set-prop X Z none.
Don't know, not on a Linux box right now.

xinput list-props .... and search for accel profile. Will do when I'm on Linux box again.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Haha, no. CS:GO's implementation of raw input is horrible.


Why?
I never had trouble with it. In fact: the lower the sensitivity the more drastic the improvement was when using rawinput. 80cm/360 for example while using rawinput off feels sluggish as hell.


----------



## HAGGARD

Never understood the hate for GO's raw input implementation either. Should be simple code with hardly anything to go wrong. I can't see Valve devs having trouble with that, especially considering there never being controversy regarding Source's or 1.6's raw input that was added later.

That aside, not using raw input at all is even worse than anything that people could think is possibly wrong with the implementation. Cursor-dependent mouse tracking has too many problems from having to deal with Windows settings and increased input latency (minor) to more importantly, negative acceleration and not picking up slow micromovement.
I think most people that mistrust raw input have never used it before and notice a change of tracking that comes with a framerate-independent mouse buffer.


----------



## thizito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Haha, no. CS:GO's implementation of raw input is horrible.


It looks like you dont know what raw input does. As povohat sometime said to me, it will be always better . Because it is a direct way to input the device, i cant explain as good as him but believe me.. Raw input IS and will always be better than no raw input
No matter if you feel diferent without, because it is worse and think that is good is placebo
If you dont trust valve(lol stupid valve is big company), just use other way to raw input from injector


----------



## CookieBook

m_rawinput 1 is sort of broken in CS:GO.

It enable the m_mousespeed command, if you change that to m_mousespeed 0 instead of the default value which is 1 you should have no issues anymore.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Two things: 1) 200 FPS definitely isn't enough @ 120/144Hz. I can personally start to feel the effects on movement and tearing if I drop much below 300 FPS, and it gets to the point of being distracting to me under 250 FPS.

2) There's more than one problem with CS:GO's m_rawinput 1 implementation. First of all, it is buffered as you say, but CS:GO's raw input timestamping is apparently not ideal and leads to the raw input data being buffered at different, variable rates compared to the frame rendering buffer, thus leading to a small but definitely noticeable 'disconnected' feeling from what's rendered on screen. Apparently CS:GO's buffer issue is exacerbated by larger amounts of raw data, hence this problem is worse with 1000Hz mouse polling rate. Second, there is some kind of minor smoothing-like effect on very small, quick inputs (like trying to flick to an enemy's head when they walk into your crosshair at very long distance). I'm not sure if this is related to the buffering or a bug with m_rawinput 1 that has been acknowledged but not yet solved (to my knowledge) by CSGO's devs, which manifested as a 1 pixel / 1 mouse count error whenever you reversed mouse direction on the x axis or y axis.

I found 1 preferable to 0 for m_rawinput before I finally found the godsend RInput. Basically, without RInput DLL injection with m_rawinput 0, you are picking between m_rawinput 0's cursor speed and input lag being hard-limited by and variable with framerate (so an fps_cap you can constantly maintain is best), and m_rawinput 1' more variable input lag that is lower at high uncapped FPS but has mouse movement that can thus feel 'disconnected' and be less responsive for short, quick movements (500Hz mouse polling rate with uncapped FPS is preferable).


----------



## CookieBook

What solution do you use?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I use raw input from a downloaded program called RInput that injects a DLL into the running CS:GO executable and reads the same raw data as m_rawinput 1 but has properly implemented timestamping/buffering.

To be exact, I'm using the last release of RInput, the v1.31 'sequential edition' with the following convars in my autoexec:
m_customaccel "0"
m_customaccel_scale "0"
m_mouseaccel1 "0"
m_mouseaccel2 "0"
m_mousespeed "0"
m_rawinput "0"


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I use raw input from a downloaded program called RInput that injects a DLL into the running CS:GO executable and reads the same raw data as m_rawinput 1 but has properly implemented timestamping/buffering.
> 
> To be exact, I'm using the last release of RInput, the v1.31 'sequential edition' with the following convars in my autoexec:
> m_customaccel "0"
> m_customaccel_scale "0"
> m_mouseaccel1 "0"
> m_mouseaccel2 "0"
> m_mousespeed "0"
> m_rawinput "0"


Yeah, I just tried RInput and it's freaking awesome.


----------



## Trull

Haha, my 1st game using RInput = vote-kicked by my own team...


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I'm working on making a little program that can launch CS:GO and TF2 cooperatively with Steam and the launch options you have for them, inject them with the RInput DLL automatically, and automatically adjust NVIDIA Digital vibrance to a chosen 'gaming' value then gives you a reminder button after you exit the game to revert back to your everyday 'desktop' Digital vibrance. Because going the extra step to run RInput and change Digital vibrance in NVIDIA control panel (if you prefer different settings in-game like I do) is really annoying to have to do every time you want to play the game.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I think this is one reason why many pros have seemed to stubbornly stick with 500Hz mouse polling rates, because in most LAN setups you would not be afforded the liberty of injecting a DLL directly into the game code.


----------



## HAGGARD

RInput.exe is an alternative that people that for some reason don't like CS:GO's raw input should use. Will it work on Linux though?

As for your claims. Raw input buffering ties on to the polling rate of the input device, but you are right. The "disconnected" feel probably is rooted in the fact that the mouse is polled 500-1000 times a second whereas that input data is sampled only framerate times per second, i. e. 100-300 times in most cases.
As for smoothing or angle snapping or any other thing people had been bringing up, Matt Wood (Valve) is the only one to officially (well, twitter) respond to that. And he said there was none of that. The devs are aware of the controversy to some extend and have been for a while, so I bet they at some point did have a look at the code again. So even if there was ever anything wrong, there shouldn't now. I'm just saying raw input is technically so much better than standard input that the fear of the m_rawinput command that is surprisingly wide-spread is strange to me. Even in the professional scene only like 20% use it, even though it gets crucially more important when you are a LAN player and want to stay consistent in general. It's the same as with the 500Hz stubborness you mentioned though - they are just used to those settings and won't change for that fact alone.

With framerates everything above 128fps is fine really. Decades of competitive FPS have been played at 100/125fps, so simulation and timing-wise it's not like 300+fps are necessary, it's just that with the Source engine the client can actually do something with excess frames that it couldn't in Quake or 1.6 for example. But as long as you are getting enough frames to process and more importantly send out a tickrate amount of data packets per second (that is 128), you are good. It is however true that framerates beyond tickrate make things smoother and help the netcode function flawlessly as well. I personally prefer capping my frames for a consistent experience in terms of frame times, game simulation and sample intervals (i. e. input timing).


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I agree with most everything you said except the frame rate cap. If you are using a good 120/144Hz monitor, I just don't understand how people can't feel the difference in input lag and responsiveness at <300 FPS caps. I've tested many times starting with a 300 FPS cap, which is the highest I can practically maintain, and it immediately feels worse lowering this cap to even something like 256 FPS, and exponentially so the lower I go. I find a cap around your 128 FPS to be.... appalling, really--nigh unplayable compared to what I'm used to.


----------



## HAGGARD

It is generally true to say: the more frames per second, the better. I do feel positive effects of high framerates such as increased snappiness myself, but I prioritize constant low-variance framerates over a couple of miliseconds of sampling latency. I'm not saying to cap at 128 either, anything above 128 that you are able to maintain consistently (like, rock-consistently in a 5V5 setting considering smokes etc.) does the trick. I personally cap at 128fps because I play without multicore rendering (which screws frametimes and can cause input lag) and there's no getting much more out of a single core without risking instable polling rates. With a CPU upgrade I can see that changing, or maybe multicore rendering will get better timings with future implementations. I'm still hoping Valve has plans to port GO to the new Source engine and address some fundamental issues with that.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

One of the best ways I've found for testing input lag in-game is simply trying to hit bhops on a 64 tick local server, _e.g._, offline w/ no bots, having +jump bind as mousewheel of course (you should definitely change to this if you haven't by now). You have to know how to bhop at least a little to do this of course, but because the window you have to input +jump to start or continue bhopping is just a few frames, you can start to tell even relatively minor differences or different variability in input lag. And you can't be early either by doing something like trying to preempt the timing with a mousewheel +jump spam. Also trying to synch your left and right mouse movements with left and right strafing to accelerate/surf in between jumps is very telling about the quality of mouse movement.


----------



## CookieBook

bhop on 64 tick, k then.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> I personally cap at 128fps because I play without multicore rendering


Ah that makes sense, you about have to without it. Interesting how people vary in their preference between the two extremes of minimal variability framerate versus minimal mean input lag. I just know from experience that the twitchier/snappier the mouse control is, the better I do.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> bhop on 64 tick, k then.


I knew someone was going to make this comment, I should have preempted it. But yes, I find 64 tick to be more telling for judgment of input lag because the window of frames you have for a bhop is larger, due to the frames at the beginning and end of this window being ~twice as likely to be rounded into a tick that is regarded as bhop-valid compared to 128 tickrate.


----------



## HAGGARD

Well, I still try to reduce mean input lag to a minimum (even use a CRT), but the FPS cap is a compromise I am willing to make (e. g. ~4ms difference between 128 and 300fps).
Bunnyhopping is indeed a very good stress test for various things. Input timing, tracking, frametimes, smoothness, tearing, monitor lag/persistence and more are all involved in that.


----------



## CookieBook

I also prefer 361 FPS capped and stable with mat_queue_mode 2 over 140 FPS capped with mat_queue_mode 0.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Ah that makes sense, you about have to without it. Interesting how people vary in their preference between the two extremes of minimal variability framerate versus minimal mean input lag. I just know from experience that the twitchier/snappier the mouse control is, the better I do.


Actually, with capping at a "low" frame rate with multi-core rendering off you're not sacrificing input lag at all. Quite the contrary, plus you get the added benefit of not having to deal with frame variability (if you have a good enough CPU to sustain a stable capped frame rate, ofc), which affects input lag directly as well.

This was posted in another thread about input lag in CS:GO: http://eliteownage.com/counterstrikeinputlag.html


----------



## TekWarfare

Uninstalling the "SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support" Windows feature disables the ability to map network drives in explorer. You don't give a warning of this at all and don't give evidence as to why it would need disabling; what is this component actually doing that increases latency?

On a Haswell system you're not going to notice the effect of disabling any of the services on system performance, let alone how "snappy" your mouse feels.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TekWarfare*
> 
> On a Haswell system you're not going to notice the effect of disabling any of the services on system performance, let alone how "snappy" your mouse feels.


If you say so.

BTW, I thought that the Omega driver (14.12) felt really good in terms of input lag, but I wouldn't know how it compares to the Nvidia ones. Anyone else agrees or what?


----------



## Cyro999

I keep hearing that the AMD driver has less input lag, way less DPC latency, less worries of DPC latency spikes, no messing around with gpu or monitor scaling etc - why do you use Nvidia, r0ach?


----------



## Zerrius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> Just use CS:GO's own raw input cvar.
> Definitely. USB headsets have a built-in DAC and amplifier, they create a lot of traffic and demand on your hubs (affecting your mouse) and the drivers you get for them are monstrous. With audio being as complex and data-heavy, audio components and software often are the cause of various problems. There's not a real solution either. In order to be able to have no sound component in your system, you'd have to use an external USB DAC with kernel streaming support, but on top of the mentioned hub strain there's APIs that require dedicated sound devices for audio to work. Using S/PDIF requires you to leave your (onboard) sound card enabled because that handles both the optical and coaxial outs.
> 
> I think in that regard r0ach's efforts in terms of finding light and stable sound cards and driver sets is somewhat legit. When I uninstalled and disabled all of my sound components I could definitely notice a difference. In performance and stability mainly, not necessarily input lag, but still significant.


What pair should I get (headphones+sound card) for the least latency? Was this tested in the past?


----------



## HAGGARD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> If you say so.


TekWarfare was referring to Windows services in response to the guide, not multicore rendering as a "service" in response to you. And I'd be inclined to agree with that. Although disabling indexing/prefetching can reduce RAM/drive read/write events, so maybe that affects game performance to some degree. I just disable most of that stuff because I don't need it to begin with. But I also agree with him in that you first have to make sure you really don't need the functionality of the service before you disable it and r0ach didn't make the effort to research/outline just how far some service functionality reaches.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerrius*
> 
> What pair should I get (headphones+sound card) for the least latency? Was this tested in the past?


Audio latency? Because as I said, I personally didn't really notice changes in input latency rather than overall performance changes. I don't think there are thorough tests with specific regards to this topic. The method here seems to be to look at DPC latency and whether the audio kernel driver or device driver is a main culprit there. In that context r0ach has said to use PCIe sound cards with standard Windows driver sets if I remember correctly.
I personally just use my onboard sound card with Realtek drivers to feed an external DAC over optical S/PDIF. I could change to Windows default drivers to see if that changes anything performance-wise though. If those drivers are less ressource-heavy, there's no reason not to use them - the functionality that comes with brand-specific drivers is useless mostly.
Your USB headset most likely has some C-Media sound chip, there are Windows drivers available for those, so you could try that as well. And also disable all other sound cards if you haven't yet.


----------



## Zerrius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> Audio latency? Because as I said, I personally didn't really notice changes in input latency rather than overall performance changes. I don't think there are thorough tests with specific regards to this topic. The method here seems to be to look at DPC latency and whether the audio kernel driver or device driver is a main culprit there. In that context r0ach has said to use PCIe sound cards with standard Windows driver sets if I remember correctly.
> I personally just use my onboard sound card with Realtek drivers to feed an external DAC over optical S/PDIF. I could change to Windows default drivers to see if that changes anything performance-wise though. If those drivers are less ressource-heavy, there's no reason not to use them - the functionality that comes with brand-specific drivers is useless mostly.
> Your USB headset most likely has some C-Media sound chip, there are Windows drivers available for those, so you could try that as well. And also disable all other sound cards if you haven't yet.


Yeah it's a C-media chip, and it's always on top of the list on LatencyMon.


----------



## HAGGARD

Well, try changing to Windows default drivers and change to the least demanding 16bit/44.1kHz output format. You could also try and get you headset to be registered on a different USB host controller than the rest of your USB devices (mouse most importantly). And reduce other USB devices as much as possible (only mouse preferably).
Although before you play around with that, make sure you stay within the recommended use for the headset. USB voltage can blow those sound chips out.


----------



## Zero4549

Disable half your computer, and the other half will work _imperceptibly_ faster. Sounds like a good deal to me!

Personally? I like to actually use my computer for more than just playing counterstrike. Save the "optimizations" for things that actually have a noticeable impact and don't add any significant value to the system (you know, like Skype, which most of you using this guide probably still have running).


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Actually, with capping at a "low" frame rate with multi-core rendering off you're not sacrificing input lag at all. Quite the contrary, plus you get the added benefit of not having to deal with frame variability (if you have a good enough CPU to sustain a stable capped frame rate, ofc), which affects input lag directly as well.
> 
> This was posted in another thread about input lag in CS:GO: http://eliteownage.com/counterstrikeinputlag.html


First off, in order to really reap the benefits of multi-core rendering and threading, there are actually quite a bit of tweaks you have to do from every interface from the BIOS to Windows to NVIDIA control panel and additional convars and weird things like core parking. And judging by the fact that the person in the link pretty much only provided the camera model and monitor as details to anything about his test setup, I feel fairly safe in assuming his system wasn't configured anywhere close to optimal for multi-core.

That "Theory" section is laughable. I don't even know where to begin there.

Second, any additional CPU time you post from the communication between cores/threads is on the scale of an order of magnitude less than the GPU time. For my source, I will link from the _de facto_ authority and one of the first pioneers of real-world input lag (picture below): http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/7 ...Note how he actually tends to make sense in general and bothers with other practicalities, such as listing hardware and software details about the test setup so the reader is free to evaluate the validity of the testing method.



Now clearly the GPU time in that picture is from a 100 FPS assumption. With NVIDIA using 1 pre-rendered frame, I think a more conservative estimate would be to double the 1 / FPS GPU time calculation. So assuming this theoretical setup can maintain the following FPS caps, let's compare your ""low"" FPS cap singe-core versus the FPS cap you could achieve with multi-core rendering on. Using my setup as a rough example, I can easily maintain 300 FPS cap multi-core, but single-core cuts my framerate by more than half. I'll be generous and say 144 FPS cap single-core, so calculating out the GPU time gives ~7ms for multicore and ~14ms for single-core. Hm, so double the GPU input lag just from FPS difference alone, seems like your initial assertion is falling apart.

Now for the sake of your argument, let's exaggerate and say multi-core somehow doubles the CPU processing time compared to single core, so that 4ms versus 2ms. Hm. 2ms improvement in CPU time doesn't really seem worth the 7ms loss from the GPU. Yeah, 7 > 2, so definitely not worth it.

Basically I'm just going to sum it up by saying your point was bollocks and which one is better for real-world input lag will vary widely according to an individuals specific setup and preferences.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Disable half your computer, and the other half will work _imperceptibly_ faster. Sounds like a good deal to me!
> 
> Personally? I like to actually use my computer for more than just playing counterstrike. Save the "optimizations" for things that actually have a noticeable impact and don't add any significant value to the system (you know, like Skype, which most of you using this guide probably still have running).


Feeling the same way.
Too many browser tabs or other demanding apps in the background are a no-go, yeah, but compromising everything for the sake of 3ms less of input lag is a bit weird to me.


----------



## pran

I'm kinda happy to have terrible fine motor skills when it comes to CSGO. I barely notice these differences and actually try to avoid them in case I waste too much time and become conscious about every little detail. I barely even feel a difference between 64 and 128 tick







. As long as I'm content with my feeling, I'm not touching any settings.


----------



## Trull

All these comments are ridiculous. If you do not appreciate r0ach's work or think that it doesn't benefit *you*, then you should stay away from posting here in the first place. This is for people who actually *care* about minimal input lag (for example in my case I can't stand LCD's for gaming, doesn't matter how fast the panel is) and are willing to go the extra mile to accomplish it. That's all there is to it, and we're extremely lucky to have someone like r0ach that actually takes the time to test all these things for us (some of which are extremely time consuming).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> [tl]


Well, clearly your comment suggests that you haven't actually tried testing, or at least seeing the difference between both on your system, so all those numbers are basically meaningless. Your 2ms vs 7ms argument kinda made me lol a bit... it's well known that multi-core rendering is a lag hog in essentially every game, except maybe Battlefield, and game developers are well aware of this. So come up with your 2ms non-sense if you will.


----------



## CookieBook

It's a trade off though. I would also like to play on a CRT but I just can't stand the colours. Same goes for multi-core rendering.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> All these comments are ridiculous. If you do not appreciate r0ach's work or think that it doesn't benefit *you*, then you should stay away from posting here in the first place. This is for people who actually *care* about minimal input lag (for example in my case I can't stand LCD's for gaming, doesn't matter how fast the panel is) and are willing to go the extra mile to accomplish it. That's all there is to it, and we're extremely lucky to have someone like r0ach that actually takes the time to test all these things for us (some of which are extremely time consuming).
> Well, clearly your comment suggests that you haven't actually tried testing, or at least seeing the difference between both on your system, so all those numbers are basically meaningless. Your 2ms vs 7ms argument kinda made me lol a bit... it's well known that multi-core rendering is a lag hog in essentially every game, except maybe Battlefield, and game developers are well aware of this. So come up with your 2ms non-sense if you will.


There is a pretty big difference between factual information, misleadingly bias information, and straight up misinformation. If you want people not to comment negatively on r0ach's (or anyone else's) guide, you will get much further by helping the content creator to remove the last two types of information than by asking content consumers to have blind faith or stay quiet.

I actually *care* about audio quality, this is why I steer people away from Beats, Bose, Razer, Logitech, etc. Do you suggest I simply have blind faith in the claims made by these companies' marketing material as well, since they were so kind to go through the effort of creating it for us? Perhaps we should just all stay silent when they make blatantly false or biased claims?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> There is a pretty big difference between factual information, misleadingly bias information, and straight up misinformation. If you want people not to comment negatively on r0ach's (or anyone else's) guide, you will get much further by helping the content creator to remove the last two types of information than by asking content consumers to have blind faith or stay quiet.
> 
> I actually *care* about audio quality, this is why I steer people away from Beats, Bose, Razer, Logitech, etc. Do you suggest I simply have blind faith in the claims made by these companies' marketing material as well, since they were so kind to go through the effort of creating it for us? Perhaps we should just all stay silent when they make blatantly false or biased claims?


r0ach has already stated that there's a lot of information that he has either held back or removed exactly because of what you're arguing, in an effort to stay as objective as possible. That said, he most certainly isn't trying to be a crowd pleaser, and less so a marketer as you seem to be suggesting. That much should be clear by now.

You're not going to get A=A type of facts here, that is not what this is. Everything here is in 'beta', so to speak, and you will find that this thread is ever-changing. Skeptical criticism, just for the sake of it, isn't gonna help.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> It's a trade off though. I would also like to play on a CRT but I just can't stand the colours. Same goes for multi-core rendering.


I've had 3 LCD hardware-calibrated monitors, one of them an IPS panel, and honestly I found that the difference isn't that big compared to a good CRT with 200% color saturation. I wouldn't stand that much saturation for anything else that isn't gaming related, though.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Well, clearly your comment suggests that you haven't actually tried testing, or at least seeing the difference between both on your system, so all those numbers are basically meaningless. Your 2ms vs 7ms argument kinda made me lol a bit... it's well known that multi-core rendering is a lag hog in essentially every game, except maybe Battlefield, and game developers are well aware of this. So come up with your 2ms non-sense if you will.


You missed my point altogether and you furthermore have an entirely false understanding of the causality behind lag related to multi-core rendering. The 2/7ms examples weren't meant to serve as proof by calculation, but rather to illustrate the following. The matter of the fact is that multi-core rendering itself is NOT inherently lag-inducing. As I said and is common knowledge to devs, the processing time for modern, well-coded graphically intense games on a given CPU is on the scale of AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE LESS than a cost-comparable GPU. However, multi-core rendering has tended to be a lag hog in many games because most of its coding has been poorly implemented or underdeveloped, typically because it has been deprioritized in favor of the broader compatibility of single-core rendering.

CS:GO and TF2 are both brilliant examples of games that traditionally have been plagued by poor multi-core implementation but have semi-recently finally caught up to and surpassed single-core routing, with regards to total input lag, for most typical hardware combinations and their typical configurations.

I don't know how my comments in any way suggest I haven't tried testing single-core versus multi-core, but I can assure you that I have because I will anal-retentively test every reasonable option to improve my CS:GO/TF2 experiences. I would do some unspeakably indecent acts if it would get me 5 more FPS and 1ms less input lag D: ...but anyway in my case, recent tests for single-core rendering netted me less than half the FPS than multi-core, and after a few deathmatch games and some time bhopping on a local server, I found the input lag of single-core to be noticeably increased and icky feeling on my system.


----------



## Brightmist

Sooo read the most of the thread but skipped a few pages in the middle, not sure about one thing so I hope you guys can help.

Onboard USB2.0/Ehternet or extra PCI/PCI-E cards for those?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I think for all onboard USB2.0 you can uninstall whatever USB controller drivers the chipset installed and just have them revert back to standard Microsoft drivers, which would be better than a USB controller card as for as I know.

For the ethernet, it depends on the LAN chipset. I think most Realtek, Qualcomm Atheros Killer, and Ralink LAN chipsets' QoS capabilities and accelerators are software based, thus they have a higher CPU usage and added input lag compared to Intel LAN chipsets, where everything tends to be hardware-based logic. So if your onboard LAN chipset is one of the former, it might be worthwhile picking up a PCI/PCI-e Intel NIC. Hopefully you would be able to find a slot for it that didn't share an IRQ Resource channel with your mouse, keyboard, GPU, or sound controller (each different PCI(-e) slot tends to correspond to a different IRQ resource).


----------



## eBombzor

Hey guys should I enable the option to let Windows automatically install missing drivers? Or is it just best to install drivers found on the internet?


----------



## Bucake

i would definitely disable auto-downloading / auto-installing drivers, as soon as possible.
it can make a _huge_ difference to have control over what's getting installed.
plenty of software/hardware don't even need drivers, but windows would sometimes auto-install drivers which actually worsen performance.

besides, the average setup doesn't need that many drivers.
you will not lose much time at all, finding out which drivers are the best for you (if any).


----------



## LzbeL

I run CSGO, and I exit, and look the DPC Latency:

http://prntscr.com/5siryy

My keyboard is connected to USB port, and mi mouse to PS/2. I have DAC USB external, and microphone USB.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> I run CSGO, and I exit, and look the DPC Latency:
> 
> http://prntscr.com/5siryy
> 
> My keyboard is connected to USB port, and mi mouse to PS/2. I have DAC USB external, and microphone USB.


It does the same thing for me but it only does it in the first second the game launches, then it reverts back to normal. I watched it from my second monitor.


----------



## r0ach

New long post on sound card hardware mouse issues:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1536110/possibly-only-one-sound-card-exists-to-give-proper-mouse-movement-in-win-8-1


----------



## HiTechPixel

How's Windows 10? Good? Bad? Worse than W7?


----------



## Axaion

potato cursor inc


----------



## CookieBook

So r0ach, hows mac OSX?


----------



## detto87

OS X has really bad cursor movement.

SmoothMouse (hah! the irony in that name) helps quite a lot but it's still way off compared to Windows or Linux.


----------



## CookieBook

That's the joke.


----------



## CookieBook

But in all honesty how good is linux when it comes to mouse movement in your opinion?


----------



## detto87

Different and good after disabling all acceleration from the X server.

But I cannot say if one (Windows or Linux) feels better.


----------



## deepor

Same here with regards to Linux vs. Windows... I can't say what's better. I first thought the mouse felt more "fresh" in Linux, but if I'm honest I can't really say if that's true and really better or if it's just imagined.

That's with the NVIDIA drivers, which means that the code that deals with the GPU and paints stuff on the screen is probably the same as on Windows.


----------



## MAVERICKN1

Nice thread mate







, subscribed.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Mouse movement is definitely better in Linux thanks to the low overhead of the kernel and distros.


----------



## Trull

Which Linux distro is best? I might give it a go.


----------



## Tivan

Some of the tips might work better on Nvidia, because when I swapped to an nvidia it was basically swamp cursor central, despite doing the nvidida specific fixes. Enjoying my high precision timer on on AMD. (fun fact video audio would cut out every 5s after 15 minutes with it turned off)

Did not like how PSO2 played with jumpy fps on nvidia (when characters load in the lobby). Felt like DPI was jumping around somehow. (P.S. I did lower pre-rendered frames to 1. and got the same FPS as with AMD on flip queue size 2, just throwing that out there. Flip queue size 1 can really hurt cpu bound games' fps on AMD but hey it's very good on 2 still. Nvidia on 3 got like 3-5% more fps when cpu bound in aura kingdom.)


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Which Linux distro is best? I might give it a go.


Depends on how well you can use Linux.

If you're a noob, Lubuntu.

If not, Arch.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Depends on how well you can use Linux.
> 
> If you're a noob, Lubuntu.
> 
> If not, Arch.


Judging by the "I might give it a go." I'm going to say he's a noob.


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Depends on how well you can use Linux.
> 
> If you're a noob, Lubuntu.
> 
> If not, Arch.


I wonder how is steam OS compared to them, and if it works outside the gaming territory.
Also another random question, is ubuntu the distro with the most bloatware currently?
I remember that ubuntu was fairly light and clean in the old days (6.0-7.0) but havent used it since, i may wanna give it another chance ...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tivan*
> 
> Enjoying my high precision timer on on AMD. (fun fact video audio would cut out every 5s after 15 minutes with it turned off)


Do you have it forced on in windows with useplatformclock true?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> I wonder how is steam OS compared to them, and if it works outside the gaming territory.
> Also another random question, is ubuntu the distro with the most bloatware currently?
> I remember that ubuntu was fairly light and clean in the old days (6.0-7.0) but havent used it since, i may wanna give it another chance ...


SteamOS really isn't intended to be used for normal desktop stuff. It's supposed to boot directly into the "big picture mode" of the Steam client and that's what they work on. It does have a normal desktop you can access (Gnome 3?), but you're better off starting with a normal distro and just installing the Steam client and graphics drivers.

At the time you tried Ubuntu, it didn't yet have its current "Unity" desktop environment. I don't know if it's light-weight or not. It's the type of software where you can't really configure much, the various settings windows seem to be intentionally stripped of options so that people can't make mistakes. That could be a problem if that means that you can't for example easily disable desktop compositing and disable VSync, which is important with regards to the topic of this thread here.

If you want to try something, I think Linux Mint is pretty popular. It's based on Ubuntu, seems to have split off when those desktop changes happened. That might be what you're searching for if you liked the old Ubuntu. There's different versions of Mint with different desktops, but I have no idea which one is good with regards to configuring Vsync etc.


----------



## Tivan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Do you have it forced on in windows with useplatformclock true?


I did nothing particular in windows. Maybe it's just some software like vlc/mpc/system clock relying on it passively. (the system clock did desync ~0.3s or ~0.03s every minute with it off, forgot which one it was~ might as well try again)

but yeah my system clock has been within +-1 second of time.is for the last month so that's rather enjoyable.

edit: actually might have been a software interaction issue as I can't recreate the desync right now, oh well! I'll see if it starts happening again if I let HPT off for a while. (also it doesn't have the Event part in my bios)

I just remember I encountered the issue with it off, repeatedly, while watching videos in vlc, and then did testing regarding my system clock. (will report if I encouter it again, though weird issue in hindsight)

edit: ok, my clock is 22 seconds ahead now. I did things like write messages on ebay while having google chrome and pale moon open. As well as msi afterburner and a paused vlc media player. The usual stuff. (edit: also tried the ResolutionTimer.exe for a bit but turned it off again) Time to turn on HPT again. I only started having this issue ever since I turned it off due to this guide, and it went away when I turned it on again. Definitely strange issue. Regular Win7 64x install.

edit: simply turning it on again reset my clock to ~0.6s ahead where it has been for the longest time. hmm. (or it was the reboot, and turning it on just stops the issue from occurring)


----------



## r0ach

I haven't used Windows 7 in a while and did a Win 7 install for the hell of it to test some audio things. 347.09 was decent in Win8.1, but seemed kind of artificially fast in Win7. I think I prefer 344.16 in Win7, but will probably be going back to Win8.1 anyway.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I haven't used Windows 7 in a while and did a Win 7 install for the hell of it to test some audio things. 347.09 was decent in Win8.1, but seemed kind of artificially fast in Win7. I think I prefer 344.16 in Win7, but will probably be going back to Win8.1 anyway.


You are talking about WHQL here? Because that's the same way I felt about it.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Depends on how well you can use Linux.
> 
> If you're a noob, Lubuntu.
> 
> If not, Arch.


Well, the first time I installed Lubuntu the internet wasn't working during the installation, then worked for like 5 minutes after the installation, and finally stopped working for no reason and couldn't get it to work again.

The second time I installed it everything worked flawlessly from the installation... until I rebooted. After installing the Catalyst driver for Ubuntu and adding a custom resolution to xrandr, I rebooted the system because Steam seemed to be complaining, and this is where everything went wrong: Lubuntu no longer detects the EDID of my monitor, marks it as "default" and doesn't let me change the resolution at all.

Maybe I'm just a noob, but I didn't do anything wrong and it stopped working for seemingly no reason after everything was working fine.


----------



## Buttnose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Well, the first time I installed Lubuntu the internet wasn't working during the installation, then worked for like 5 minutes after the installation, and finally stopped working for no reason and couldn't get it to work again.
> 
> The second time I installed it everything worked flawlessly from the installation... until I rebooted. After installing the Catalyst driver for Ubuntu and adding a custom resolution to xrandr, I rebooted the system because Steam seemed to be complaining, and this is where everything went wrong: Lubuntu no longer detects the EDID of my monitor, marks it as "default" and doesn't let me change the resolution at all.
> 
> Maybe I'm just a noob, but I didn't do anything wrong and it stopped working for seemingly no reason after everything was working fine.


Had a similar problem here, something to do with using ubuntu seemed to corrupt my Benq's EDID. I should mention I was using a early version of lightboost at the time. The problem carried over to windows as well and made it so I had to install a copy of the EDID via device manager. Now whenever I use something that isn't my windows installation I can only use super low-res. Such a ballache!


----------



## Trull

I could probably fix whatever is wrong with Lubuntu somehow, but I've seen what Arch is all about and I like it a lot. Ideally I want to set it up so that all it does is run CS:GO.

Should be fun.


----------



## detto87

Arch is very nice and all. Nice customization possibilities and MANY available programs because of the AUR. I set up many machines with it and used it solely as my main system for 2 years.

Though in the end I was just using it as a normal desktop system with the added benefit of the AUR.
That's when I decided to make the switch to a *buntu distribution (Xubuntu/Lubuntu) because I can easily build my own packages there too or add the needed ppas. System set up and mainteneance is easier too, so that's why I haven't touched Arch again, not for my personal desktop that is.

I cannot imagine ditching Windows as my main gaming system though. Linux came pretty far and will proceed to grow in the gaming market heavily thanks to Valve, but I cannot see it surpassing Windows as a gaming system in the next 10 years.


----------



## Trull

No, I definitely wasn't thinking of replacing Windows with Linux, I just wanted to try a very simple installation and run CS:GO on it. But now I have things in my mind like: how to change the GPU voltage automatically in Linux (since for some reason I can't flash it in the BIOS), how to get sound with my Sound Blaster Z, etc... doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. And my first impression with Arch is negative, since booting it from a USB using UEFI doesn't even work (goes to blank screen and literally nothing happens). I found a post where a developer was asking for help because apparently he couldn't test UEFI properly, lol, and that was from 2013...


----------



## Conditioned

I'm not sure about the name but you probably need to change the bios option 'uefi secure boot' off. Have you tried it? Besides, isn't arch a dist where you want to compile everything? It's not worth it, go with *buntu instead and it will probably find all the drivers you need by itself. Just a thought if you just want to test stuff out.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I'm not sure about the name but you probably need to change the bios option 'uefi secure boot' off. Have you tried it? Besides, isn't arch a dist where you want to compile everything? It's not worth it, go with *buntu instead and it will probably find all the drivers you need by itself. Just a thought if you just want to test stuff out.


Yeah, I guess I'll give Lubuntu another go. If it messes with me again I'll just forget about it.


----------



## Trull

Call me crazy, but after quite a bit of research I think the MSI H97M ECO is perfect for me (obviously without using their "ECO power" management stuff). It's only 80€ and seems to have everything I need, even the ability to turn HPET off, and I guess USB 3.0 too (it's labeled as 'xHCI Hand-off').

Maybe buying it would be a mistake, but who knows?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I'm not sure about the name but you probably need to change the bios option 'uefi secure boot' off. Have you tried it? Besides, isn't arch a dist where you want to compile everything? It's not worth it, go with *buntu instead and it will probably find all the drivers you need by itself. Just a thought if you just want to test stuff out.


No, you're thinking of Gentoo. You install pre-compiled packages on Arch.

Arch's thing is that for everything that's getting packaged, they try to leave stuff exactly like the developers of that project are releasing it. They try to not add any patches or different configuration files etc., instead they write an article in the Wiki explaining things you might want to do. Basically, the only thing about Arch that's really only Arch is just the package manager (there's also one or two other small projects like a command line network manager tool).


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Call me crazy, but after quite a bit of research I think the MSI H97M ECO is perfect for me (obviously without using their "ECO power" management stuff). It's only 80€ and seems to have everything I need, even the ability to turn HPET off, and I guess USB 3.0 too (it's labeled as 'xHCI Hand-off').
> 
> Maybe buying it would be a mistake, but who knows?


XHCI hand-off option isn't the ability to turn off USB3, it's just a pre-boot BIOS to OS compatibility shim. USB3/XHCI will still be turned on.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> XHCI hand-off option isn't the ability to turn off USB3, it's just a pre-boot BIOS to OS compatibility shim. USB3/XHCI will still be turned on.


Figured as much.









I still refuse to buy one of the Asus Maximus boards and I ain't going back to Z77... ah, well. No choice but to let HPET be my sweet companion.









P.S.: lol, 90N1NE is watching this. Shout out to you, man. I enjoyed your BF3 videos back in the day (not that it was too long ago, lol).


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> When the mouse cursor hits the edge of the screen, top, bottom, left and right im given a green highlighting - what does this mean?


Where does one get that program?


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Where does one get that program?


it's MMR (mouse movement recorder)

it's in this zip file (direct download from onedrive)
in that file, you'll find another zip file called MouseMovementRecorder_1.12_20131113x.zip. you'll find the .exe in there.
it's not an installation, so you can just unpack to and start from anywhere.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> it's MMR (mouse movement recorder)
> 
> it's in this zip file (direct download from onedrive)
> in that file, you'll find another zip file called MouseMovementRecorder_1.12_20131113x.zip. you'll find the .exe in there.
> it's not an installation, so you can just unpack to and start from anywhere.


Thanks!


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Just a couple of quick notes for you wes. Green just means your cursor hit the edge of a screen and it's not a problem. Red means mouse acceleration (bad obvi). And it's measurements aren't accurate in full-screen games, at least in my experience, because it misinterprets the cursor resets. I'm not sure about borderless windowed mode because I never use it. Oh and for a given polling rate you're testing, you don't want any more than ~3-5% deviation the set value during constant fast movement from, and ideally more like 1% as your biggest deviations (3% deviation for 1000Hz would be 970 or 1030 Hz). If you're higher % deviation than that, consider the next lower polling rate down which will probably be more stable for systems that are unstable at the higher polling rate. Or try optimizing your USB/IRQ resource situation as I outlined a few pages ago, which tightened my highest deviations @ 1000Hz from over 10% to just over 1%.


----------



## r0ach

Making a change to the Win 8.1 install guide. If you change any setting in the Nvidia scaling tab, you need to reboot then run "winsat formal -restart clean" in an administrator cmd prompt afterwards. So in the Win 8.1 install guide, you should install the Nvidia driver and change the scaling tab before running the system maintenance in action center (which runs Winsat).

Running winsat afterwards seems to fix the weird cursor movement that occurs after changing the scaling tab sometimes.

Hopefully Windows 10 will decouple the internet browser from the desktop too. Right now, changing settings like turning smooth scrolling off in Internet Exploder 11 also changes desktop mouse movement in Win 8.1, which is absurd.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Making a change to the Win 8.1 install guide. If you change any setting in the Nvidia scaling tab, you need to reboot then run "winsat formal -restart clean" in an administrator cmd prompt afterwards. So in the Win 8.1 install guide, you should install the Nvidia driver and change the scaling tab before running the system maintenance in action center (which runs Winsat).
> 
> Running winsat afterwards seems to fix the weird cursor movement that occurs after changing the scaling tab sometimes.
> 
> Hopefully Windows 10 will decouple the internet browser from the desktop too. Right now, changing settings like turning smooth scrolling off in Internet Exploder 11 also changes desktop mouse movement in Win 8.1, which is absurd.


Is it really needed to do so ? what the mouse will do or how it will behave ?


----------



## Trull

I'm gonna risk it and go with one of the ASRock motherboards. If HPET can't be turned off I'll just keep it anyway.

Wish me luck, people who care about this stuff.


----------



## granitov

HPET off, however reduces DPC latency by 2-3ms, introduces framerate instability and +1 ms ping jittering in Quake Live for me. Motherboard is Asus P67.


----------



## Tivan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> HPET off, however reduces DPC latency by 2-3ms, introduces framerate instability and +1 ms ping jittering in Quake Live for me. Motherboard is Asus P67.


Wait you get several MS of DPC latency? mine's not going over 150µs and I'm happily running onboard audio, while watching flash players and stuff.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I have a thread I started where I'm looking for some feedback from user of older NVIDIA drivers. It hasn't had any responses yet, so I'm linking in here because I've seen several mention using them. If you're on older drivers and have just a second to check something for me, I would appreciate if you took a peek at my thread. Thanks and sorry if this was kinda whoring out on this thread









http://www.overclock.net/t/1537331/users-of-much-older-nvidia-drivers-please-help/0_20


----------



## x7007

Does CRU monitor can cause lags if there are many unactive monitors ? I dunno where this lag came from, I always had randomly input lag in Skyrim for example, sometimes the mouse worked great, sometimes not. can't be sure already, but I can feel when using 3D the lag input is terribly high than before. I noticed that when I changed from 7970 to 970 too, but now it is the worst it can be. 2D lag input and 3D are driving me insane , I don't know how to fix i.t


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tivan*
> 
> Wait you get several MS of DPC latency?
> 150µs


The several ms of DPC latency it is. 30-55µs idling and while performing a set number of tasks and up to 150-200µs while switching tasks/creating a new one.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Are you using CRU out of choice or necessity? I know for most cases, it's not necessary and you can make custom resolutions you need in NVIDIA control panel just fine. There's certain situations that require CRU but I can't recall them at the moment. I think it's certain monitors that reject the NVIDIA custom resolutions but CRU can overwrite what the monitor reports to Windows as valid resolutions or something along those lines.

Anyway, if you are using CRU by choice, try running the reset-all file for it and recreating your reso's in NVIDIA control panel and see if that changes anything for you.


----------



## r0ach

Got good news and bad news:

Good news: Windows 8.1 installs fast on SSD

Bad news: I get much better results by not uninstalling Internet Exploder 11 and just turning off smooth scrolling in the options menu for it in Windows 8.1. IE is basically a part of the OS in 8.1 and it's settings all affect desktop mouse movement. Just re-checking the box to turn IE back on doesn't help, you have to reinstall the OS to get it back to normal. I changed the Windows 8.1 install guide to have IE 11 left installed.

I'm praying Windows 10 decouples the Internet browser from the actual operating system. For no logical reason whatsover, even games like League of Legends require Internet Exploder to be installed in order to use the store to acquire new champions.


----------



## Trull

Crap. Thanks for the update, I'm gonna be doing a fresh install of 8.1 next week.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> The several ms of DPC latency it is. 30-55µs idling and while performing a set number of tasks and up to 150-200µs while switching tasks/creating a new one.


ms is not µs

You need 1000µs for 1ms for reference.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> ms is not µs
> 
> You need 1000µs for 1ms for reference.


What? DPC latency is measured in microseconds.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> ms is not µs
> 
> You need 1000µs for 1ms for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> What? DPC latency is measured in microseconds.
Click to expand...

"ms" translates into "millisecond"
"µs" translates into "microsecond"

one millisecond is 0.001 sec (one thousandth)
one microsecond is 0.000001 sec (one millionth)


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> "ms" translates into "millisecond"
> "µs" translates into "microsecond"
> 
> one millisecond is 0.001 sec (one thousandth)
> one microsecond is 0.000001 sec (one millionth)


Yes... so?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Yes... so?


That particular thread of posts started with someone writing "ms" where he really meant microseconds, and from what you posted it looked to me like you had the same misconception. I thought I better explain ms and µs as it seemed like there's several people that make the same mistake.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> That particular thread of posts started with someone writing "ms" where he really meant microseconds, and from what you posted it looked to me like you had the same misconception. I thought I better explain ms and µs as it seemed like there's several people that make the same mistake.


Well, yeah, but the dude wrote it correctly: 'µs'. So I assumed he meant microseconds with "MS".

Anyway, I guess clearing it up doesn't hurt.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Well, yeah, but the dude wrote it correctly: 'µs'. So I assumed he meant microseconds with "ms".
> 
> Anyway, I guess clearing it up doesn't hurt.


His post was just an answer to some other post. You missed looking at that other post.
*
EDIT:* The post that started this was saying "HPET off reduces DPC latency by 2-3ms for me", and that would be just broken if it would have really been 2000-3000 microseconds.


----------



## r0ach

Anyway, internet exploder 11 in Windows 8.1 is a real hard problem to solve. The options in it like "smooth scrolling" definitely affect desktop mouse movement by turning them off, but it's unclear what even happens if you uninstall IE from program manager, if that setting stays off, or if the settings then act as default on or whatever

Then I noticed if you uninstall IE and click the check box to turn it back on, the mouse movement doesn't go back to how it was before you uninstalled it.


----------



## granitov

Yeah, somehow I made myself think that milli- was micro*10 in my statements, sorry for that.

-=That's the sort of things you get from playing a lot of online shooter games, kids=-


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> internet exploder 11


I prefer to call it Interbutt Exploder, but to each his own.


----------



## Zerrius

I switched my deathadder with SS rival. do I need to reinstall windows? is there any chance that the old DA driver+software will leave traces and screw my mouse response\accuracy?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerrius*
> 
> I switched my deathadder with SS rival. do I need to reinstall windows? is there any chance that the old DA driver+software will leave traces and screw my mouse response\accuracy?


No, but you need to re-flash your motherboard BIOS, otherwise your old mouse's sound will get stuck in the USB ports and your new mouse will sound hollow and distant.


----------



## wes1099

How do you check DPC latency on windows 8.1? The site that DPC latency checker comes from says that it does not work in windows 8.


----------



## deepor

You use a different program named "LatencyMon". You might need to play around with its settings. One of the measurement methods it can use is broken just like with dpc latency checker, but it also has alternatives that will work alright on Windows 8 and 8.1.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You use a different program named "LatencyMon". You might need to play around with its settings. One of the measurement methods it can use is broken just like with dpc latency checker, but it also has alternatives that will work alright on Windows 8 and 8.1.


Which number do I want to look at?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Which number do I want to look at?


I only look at the "current" and the "highest" latency bars. I think the rest of the bars can be ignored and are not important if the latency looks fine. The drivers tab helps researching where high latency might come from.



Spoiler: I used the program like this:



I first made sure DPC latency can look great while on the desktop and just staring at LatencyMon's window. I disabled power saving features so that the CPU runs at full speed even when idle.

If you leave power saving enabled, the CPU running at 1600 MHz will make it hard to find out if your setup runs okay or not. If you see latency changing a lot, you wouldn't know if this is caused by drivers or devices, or simply because of the CPU running slow in that particular moment.

I then started a game and loaded into a level, a game where I know that it can run perfectly smooth. After things finished loading, I did Alt-Tab out to LatencyMon and stopped and restarted its tracking, then went back into the game and played around a bit. It should be possible for DPC latency to look great for a pretty long stretch of time, for example 20 minutes, while playing the game. If you find out there are spikes, good luck trying to find what's causing that.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I only look at the "current" and the "highest" latency bars. I think the rest of the bars can be ignored and are not important if the latency looks fine. The drivers tab helps researching where high latency might come from.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: I used the program like this:
> 
> 
> 
> I first made sure DPC latency can look great while on the desktop and just staring at LatencyMon's window. I disabled power saving features so that the CPU runs at full speed even when idle.
> 
> If you leave power saving enabled, the CPU running at 1600 MHz will make it hard to find out if your setup runs okay or not. If you see latency changing a lot, you wouldn't know if this is caused by drivers or devices, or simply because of the CPU running slow in that particular moment.
> 
> I then started a game and loaded into a level, a game where I know that it can run perfectly smooth. After things finished loading, I did Alt-Tab out to LatencyMon and stopped and restarted its tracking, then went back into the game and played around a bit. It should be possible for DPC latency to look great for a pretty long stretch of time, for example 20 minutes, while playing the game. If you find out there are spikes, good luck trying to find what's causing that.


So the first two bars?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> So the first two bars?


Yep, just the first two. The other ones can sometimes look terrible even though latency stays low and everything runs fine.


----------



## Trull

I've got very good news: the ASRock H87 Pro4 lets you disable HPET and it actually does it. So I don't know what's wrong with r0ach's Z87 Extreme4, could be just that specific board.

Oh, and also, 19.5 works fine for me on W7 and W8, so again I don't know why it's bad for r0ach.

But anyway, I'm really really happy.


----------



## jtl999

Supermicro has some Z87 boards with Aptio bios that let you disable HPET and things, going to give it a try


----------



## Trull

Hm, I had to reinstall W8 again because of problems with the license, and now Windows maintenance has been running for 1 hour and is still in progress... wth?

nvm, it finished just after I posted this...







(Total time: 1hr 5mts, lol).


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Installed NVIDIA driver 347.25 and it seems really good so far. Mouse movement seems equally consistent with 344.11 BETA with the increased FPS from 347.09


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Installed NVIDIA driver 347.25 and it seems really good so far. Mouse movement seems equally consistent with 344.11 BETA with the increased FPS from 347.09


344.11 BETA wat?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I meant WHQL, sorry. I don't even know why I bothered trying to specify since there was only one 344.11 release.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I meant WHQL, sorry. I don't even know why I bothered trying to specify since there was only one 344.11 release.


Now I have to try it, I don't feel like uninstalling/installing though :/


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I always use DDU and fresh install when changing versions, so it can be a little tedious having to reset the NVIDIA CP settings. I just made a big picture file with snapshots of the settings I have for each program and some doodled notes about a few other settings/options and it makes the process at least more mindless if not somewhat faster.

But in the first round of the very first server I joined in TF2 I came within 3 headshots of tying my all-time high as sniper. And on my first and only attempt, I set what I think was an all-time high for myself in number of targets out of 100 I hit on a CSGO flickshot aim map. Anecdotal evidence at best, but enough to convince me to stick with it unless some other problem comes up.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I always use DDU and fresh install when changing versions, so it can be a little tedious having to reset the NVIDIA CP settings. I just made a big picture file with snapshots of the settings I have for each program and some doodled notes about a few other settings/options and it makes the process at least more mindless if not somewhat faster.


This exactly what I do! That's why I don't feel like installing it









Well I'll report back in ~30 minutes to let you know how I feel about it.


----------



## Conditioned

You can use nvidia inspector to save all your modified profiles.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> You can use nvidia inspector to save all your modified profiles.


TheMoreYouKnow


----------



## karbz

Is there any kind of tutorial or step by step picture guide for

a) perfect bios settings (HT link width/NB freq. DRAM freq./oc values etc.) In my opinion this is actually the most important stuff of all e.g. not only what things can be disabled in bios but also how to configure the rest for a top stable performance with low input/DCI impact.

b) how to uninstall and delete every driver/device/service that is not needed? For example I have turned down USB 3.0 in BIOS, before i installed the newest driver for etron. I uninstalled in control panel and deleted every folder and turned it down in device as well. Still util_ms shows the trace of it to switch from pci.
WHAT can be deleted and how.

c) sound is another big thing. All the creative drivers are bad. But whats with the modded ones PAX for example. Every way I tried to install the SB Z still gave me input add and it still shows as sound blaster in audio tab or device manager.

d) which Intel chipset driver can be used without problems. Same for win components/updates.

e) the tool for PC latency posted here before gives me much higher values, any suggestion how to lower these with BIOS/windows settings?!

f) is it profitable to switch from realtek onboard gigabit adapter to the mentioned Intel nic?

Thanks in advance and kind regards guys.
I'm trying to set this thing to perfect because I plan to make a the biggest comparison about mice/review that you can guess. Therefore I need the best settings to be relevant without taking other sources into consideration when comparing.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> Is there any kind of tutorial or step by step picture guide for
> 
> a) perfect bios settings (HT link width/NB freq. DRAM freq./oc values etc.) In my opinion this is actually the most important stuff of all e.g. not only what things can be disabled in bios but also how to configure the rest for a top stable performance with low input/DCI impact.
> 
> b) how to uninstall and delete every driver/device/service that is not needed? For example I have turned down USB 3.0 in BIOS, before i installed the newest driver for etron. I uninstalled in control panel and deleted every folder and turned it down in device as well. Still util_ms shows the trace of it to switch from pci.
> WHAT can be deleted and how.
> 
> c) sound is another big thing. All the creative drivers are ****. But whats with the modded ones PAX for example. Every way I tried to install the SB Z still gave me input add and it still shows as sound blaster in audio tab or device manager.
> 
> d) which Intel chipset driver can be used without problems. Same for win components/updates.
> 
> e) the tool for PC latency posted here before gives me much higher values, any suggestion how to lower these with BIOS/windows settings?!
> 
> f) is it profitable to switch from realtek onboard gigabit adapter to the mentioned Intel nic?
> 
> Thanks in advance and kind regards guys.
> I'm trying to set this thing to perfect because I plan to make a the biggest comparison about mice/review that you can guess. Therefore I need the best settings to be relevant without taking other sources into consideration when comparing.


Simple, If you are to believe r0ach, this is the list of steps required for optimal computing:

1) Toss your current computer in the garbage

2) Dig that Athlon 64 X2 system out of your storage space

3) With the exception of your GPU, remove any expansion cards, usb dongles, etc

4) Grab a copy of Windows 95 and install that badboy

5) Plug in your trusty MS Intellimouse Optical (using the PS/2 adapter of course!)

6) Go out to a garage sale and pick up a cheap old membrane keyboard that uses a PS/2 connection

7) Install your favorite game. Just the one. Make sure you install it from physical media as this computer is never allowed to connect to the internet

8) Enjoy the best computing experience known to man!


----------



## Trull

Zero: click on 'Subscribed', and then 'unsubscribe'. Do it now and you will save a baby seal.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> Is there any kind of tutorial or step by step picture guide for
> 
> a) perfect bios settings (HT link width/NB freq. DRAM freq./oc values etc.) In my opinion this is actually the most important stuff of all e.g. not only what things can be disabled in bios but also how to configure the rest for a top stable performance with low input/DCI impact.
> 
> b) how to uninstall and delete every driver/device/service that is not needed? For example I have turned down USB 3.0 in BIOS, before i installed the newest driver for etron. I uninstalled in control panel and deleted every folder and turned it down in device as well. Still util_ms shows the trace of it to switch from pci.
> WHAT can be deleted and how.
> 
> c) sound is another big thing. All the creative drivers are bad. But whats with the modded ones PAX for example. Every way I tried to install the SB Z still gave me input add and it still shows as sound blaster in audio tab or device manager.
> 
> d) which Intel chipset driver can be used without problems. Same for win components/updates.
> 
> e) the tool for PC latency posted here before gives me much higher values, any suggestion how to lower these with BIOS/windows settings?!
> 
> f) is it profitable to switch from realtek onboard gigabit adapter to the mentioned Intel nic?
> 
> Thanks in advance and kind regards guys.
> I'm trying to set this thing to perfect because I plan to make a the biggest comparison about mice/review that you can guess. Therefore I need the best settings to be relevant without taking other sources into consideration when comparing.


the PAX drivers are just pre-EQed drivers, they contain NO hidden tweaks or anything - and last i asked him to explain what, which "tweak" was and how it worked, he promptly ignored me.


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> the PAX drivers are just pre-EQed drivers, they contain NO hidden tweaks or anything - and last i asked him to explain what, which "tweak" was and how it worked, he promptly ignored me.


So are there any other modded drivers that you could recommend? Someone posted a different modder name in this thread iirc


----------



## rul3s

Hi mate!

I found this thread very interesting. I would know who people manage they're gaming but also day to day computers, because I see that it's not much compatible.

I need lots of software on my computer, java and flash player included, but also lots of adobe products, autodesk, etc... , until now, I've just been using Ubuntu + Win8.1 dual boot, and in win8.1 had thos software and also both games I play, CS:GO and LOL.

I've thinked about installing a 3rd OS, another win 8.1 with just the esential to play those two games, windows updated, disable all services, just steam, teamspeak, firefox and lol.

What do you think? There's someway to do that but just with 2 users? One user only charges the essential things or something like that?

Thanks!


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rul3s*
> 
> Hi mate!
> 
> I found this thread very interesting. I would know who people manage they're gaming but also day to day computers, because I see that it's not much compatible.
> 
> I need lots of software on my computer, java and flash player included, but also lots of adobe products, autodesk, etc... , until now, I've just been using Ubuntu + Win8.1 dual boot, and in win8.1 had thos software and also both games I play, CS:GO and LOL.
> 
> I've thinked about installing a 3rd OS, another win 8.1 with just the esential to play those two games, windows updated, disable all services, just steam, teamspeak, firefox and lol.
> 
> What do you think? There's someway to do that but just with 2 users? One user only charges the essential things or something like that?
> 
> Thanks!


r0ach and others in this thread already said and explained the negative effects of having more than one OS several times.
you should always be able to make the first OS give you the best mix for your usage anyway.
why do you need flash may i ask or java? there are other ways. on everything else, just optimize your bios and everything you can as already explained in device manager and atleast set your computer to the best performance settings.


----------



## rul3s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> r0ach and others in this thread already said and explained the negative effects of having more than one OS several times.
> you should always be able to make the first OS give you the best mix for your usage anyway.
> why do you need flash may i ask or java? there are other ways. on everything else, just optimize your bios and everything you can as already explained in device manager and atleast set your computer to the best performance settings.


Ouch! I didnt read about it, I'm going to search.

Thanks!


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> So are there any other modded drivers that you could recommend? Someone posted a different modder name in this thread iirc


As far as i know, there are no "true" modded drives for the Z series cards, theyre all pre-EQed drivers

So if you want moar bass and from dj Wobba wobba - grab those PAX drivers


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> As far as i know, there are no "true" modded drives for the Z series cards, theyre all pre-EQed drivers
> 
> So if you want moar bass and from dj Wobba wobba - grab those PAX drivers


i dont want any additional bass.
i want a lightweight driver without messing up my mouse feeling / input latency too bad and with tweaked settings for fps gaming (footsteps etc.)


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> i dont want any additional bass.
> i want a lightweight driver without messing up my mouse feeling / input latency too bad and with tweaked settings for fps gaming (footsteps etc.)


Either use the UAA Driver from windows 8 and up, or different sound card really.


----------



## Anusha

One user already asked this before, but why are you really using a Nvidia card if it has all these latency problems, r0ach?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> One user already asked this before, but why are you really using a Nvidia card if it has all these latency problems, r0ach?


I tried calculating vertex transformation data by hand, but it didn't work well.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz




----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I tried calculating vertex transformation data by hand, but it didn't work well.


lol. I'm asking why you are not using an AMD card instead.


----------



## TK421

r0ach, can you make a motherboard guide for X99 system?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> r0ach, can you make a motherboard guide for X99 system?


I'm sure if you bought him a X99 system, he would be happy to tell you to disable everything about it and then still complain that it is inferior garbage compared to yesteryear's z77.


----------



## Brightmist

Changed to an Asus Xonar DG with Uni Xonar drivers instead of onboard sound on Asus P67, did a fresh 8.1 install and connected case fans to PSU, can easily feel the difference.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Changed to an Asus Xonar DG with Uni Xonar drivers instead of onboard sound on Asus P67, did a fresh 8.1 install and connected case fans to PSU, can easily feel the difference.


The Asus Xonar sound cards are still awful in terms of latency, though. I know because I used a DX for years, but not anymore.


----------



## Brightmist

Yea, I picked the most basic & PCI one because of that.

Maybe I'll get a PCI-E SB Z and compare to that.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> lol. I'm asking why you are not using an AMD card instead.


He has a point you know, with low overhead Mantle and all that


----------



## jtl999

and Z77 is inferior to my old LGA 1156







board (don't remember exact chipset)


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> He has a point you know, with low overhead Mantle and all that


I don't have a ton of experience with AMD cards, but I did have an R9 290. Although I didn't do a lot of testing with AMD drivers, I think I recall the driver before they introduced mantle being better mouse-wise. I think it was called 13.12 or something like that. Since you're not rendering the desktop, or most games in general for that matter with mantle, it makes sense that integrating this experimental API could make the drivers worse, at least in the short term.

There was also this bizarre black screen bug on r9 290 cards that I never figured out. Just out of nowhere, completely random, the screen would turn black and you have to reboot. It was a known issue for thousands of users and I don't think they ever even fixed it.....

Then you have the problem where AMD doesn't allow you to change flipque in drivers. As already mentioned earlier in this thread, using the now discontinued RadeonPro to change flipque used an implementation that caused a large framerate hit not seen on Nvidia cards.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> There was also this bizarre black screen bug on r9 290 cards that I never figured out. Just out of nowhere, completely random, the screen would turn black and you have to reboot. It was a known issue for thousands of users and I don't think they ever even fixed it.....
> 
> 
> 
> I had something like that where leaving my PC idle and locked even with the power option disabled would blackscreen it at a random time and the monitor would lose signal. Sometimes pressing a key would work other times I'd need to hard reset. I had the issue with several AMD cards with ANY 14.x driver version until 14.9 (I think)
Click to expand...


----------



## Trull

I never had any issues like that with my 7850, 7870, 7950 or 7970. And I think 14.12 is a great, great driver.


----------



## r0ach

So in monitor news, there finally exists a 1440p IPS panel with a scaler that has single digit input lag, the new LG. Only problem is, you have to set brightness to 0 to get 120cdm2 light output, and the power supply in the monitor makes the buzz of death sound when lowered under 100%. They also set the sharpness of the screen too low by default so the picture is blurry unless you change it...

Then Asus released a update to their 1440p IPS also with single digit input lag. The problem with that one is if you change to user mode RGB levels (which you basically have to), the monitor takes a large contrast ratio hit.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I never had any issues like that with my 7850, 7870, 7950 or 7970. And I think 14.12 is a great, great driver.


It was a r9 290/x issue.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> So in monitor news, there finally exists a 1440p IPS panel with a scaler that has single digit input lag, the new LG. Only problem is, you have to set brightness to 0 to get 120cdm2 light output, and the power supply in the monitor makes the buzz of death sound when lowered under 100%. They also set the sharpness of the screen too low by default so the picture is blurry unless you change it...
> 
> Then Asus released a update to their 1440p IPS also with single digit input lag. The problem with that one is if you change to user mode RGB levels (which you basically have to), the monitor takes a large contrast ratio hit.
> It was a r9 290/x issue.


Hehe always something that sucks. Like I love the zowie ec2-a but there still is more buttonlag that I would like. Guess you haven't found a z97 motherboard that fills both of your criteria, ie disabling hpet and usb/xhci?

Oh and thanks for the hw update.


----------



## phl0w

Slowly working my way through your guide. Great stuff!
Stupid question though, disabling on-board audio is only recommended when you have a stand alone audio card, right?
I have an Asus motherboard too, can I go through your list blue-eyed, and set everything as recommended, or is there stuff in it, that needs additional actions or in-depth knowledge later?

Thanks for your guide, especially the Windows, Firefox, NVIDIA, and Steam stuff produced a snappier mouse feeling.
I have an Eizo FS line, which is said to have really low input lag, so I wanna profit of it obviously.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phl0w*
> 
> Slowly working my way through your guide. Great stuff!
> Stupid question though, disabling on-board audio is only recommended when you have a stand alone audio card, right?
> I have an Asus motherboard too, can I go through your list blue-eyed, and set everything as recommended, or is there stuff in it, that needs additional actions or in-depth knowledge later?
> 
> Thanks for your guide, especially the Windows, Firefox, NVIDIA, and Steam stuff produced a snappier mouse feeling.
> I have an Eizo FS line, which is said to have really low input lag, so I wanna profit of it obviously.


Well if you disable onboard and don't have another card your choice is to have no sound


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Hehe always something that sucks. Like I love the zowie ec2-a but there still is more buttonlag that I would like. Guess you haven't found a z97 motherboard that fills both of your criteria, ie disabling hpet and usb/xhci?
> 
> Oh and thanks for the hw update.


My maximum vii gene allows you to disable them both


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> My maximum vii gene allows you to disable them both


That looks good thanks, any other takers that aren't micro atx?

Edit again. Looks like that when I set cpu core ratio manually that it forces turbo boost on my asus z97 pro.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> That looks good thanks, any other takers that aren't micro atx?
> 
> Edit again. Looks like that when I set cpu core ratio manually that it forces turbo boost on my asus z97 pro.


The CPU is being overclocked (multiplier is raised) by using the Turbo Boost. I don't know how other boards manage it by turning Turbo Boost off. Probably they are just reporting inaccurate information.


----------



## Zerrius

My board only lets me turn off turbo boost when I over clock per core, and not all cores. otherwise it stays on.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I am still using a heavily OC'ed GTX 570 personally, but I tried to help a friend get a good OC on his new 970 and I wasn't nearly as successful. Is it just me or do the newer cards with their Turbo Boost mode of clocking make OC'ing much more difficult than the older NVIDIA cards, particularly if you are trying to achieve a static OC with a single set of clocks and voltage settings?


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I am still using a heavily OC'ed GTX 570 personally, but I tried to help a friend get a good OC on his new 970 and I wasn't nearly as successful. Is it just me or do the newer cards with their Turbo Boost mode of clocking make OC'ing much more difficult than the older NVIDIA cards, particularly if you are trying to achieve a static OC with a single set of clocks and voltage settings?


Yes it is difficult and this is why these kinds of threads do exist.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1522651/disable-boost-and-bake-in-max-game-stable-clocks-for-maxwell-ii/350_50


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I am still using a heavily OC'ed GTX 570 personally, but I tried to help a friend get a good OC on his new 970 and I wasn't nearly as successful. Is it just me or do the newer cards with their Turbo Boost mode of clocking make OC'ing much more difficult than the older NVIDIA cards, particularly if you are trying to achieve a static OC with a single set of clocks and voltage settings?


For the EVGA 970's, they have power limit set to 170w for the stock card, SC, SSC, and FTW, even though the FTW card pulls 196w at stock boost clocks of 1400.


----------



## Conditioned

Just as an update: I found a motherboard where you can disable usb3, xhci and hpet. Doesnt sport a pci slot tho: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_VII_HERO/. Seems very good and reasonably priced too for a rog board.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Just as an update: I found a motherboard where you can disable usb3, xhci and hpet. Doesnt sport a pci slot tho: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_VII_HERO/. Seems very good and reasonably priced too for a rog board.


The "USB Keybot" thing sounds sketchy though. It's hard to tell if you can bypass the processor entirely or not by not installing the software. If all USB data has to go through that processor regardless, it would be a bad idea to get.


----------



## eBombzor

Disabling HPET decreases input lag dramatically but also significantly increases frame variance and stutter. Is there any way to fix this? HPET has too much lag.


----------



## CookieBook

I'm stupid


----------



## deepor

You overlooked the "disabling" part of "disabling hpet".


----------



## Brightmist

Autoruns is a nice tool to check and get rid of useless stuff including leftovers of improperly uninstalled programs.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The "USB Keybot" thing sounds sketchy though. It's hard to tell if you can bypass the processor entirely or not by not installing the software. If all USB data has to go through that processor regardless, it would be a bad idea to get.


Yea that´s a good point. According to the manual you have to use the specific keybot port to use the feature so I would say if you plug the keyboard into another usb port keybot would not be used. http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/MAXIMUS-VII-RANGER/e9798_maximus_vii_ranger_ug_v2_for_web_only.pdf

This is for the slightly cheaper ranger, I just assume it's the same for the hero.

I have also some concerns about the usb truevolt feature, but from what I have read they have only provide more stable power.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The "USB Keybot" thing sounds sketchy though. It's hard to tell if you can bypass the processor entirely or not by not installing the software. If all USB data has to go through that processor regardless, it would be a bad idea to get.


That's just one port.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You overlooked the "disabling" part of "disabling hpet".


What do you mean? I disabled it via BIOS.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> What do you mean? I disabled it via BIOS.


That was an answer for the post right above mine, not something for you. The guy has now edited his text. He had misunderstood something about your post.


----------



## jtl999

Supermicro C7Z87 with HPET disabled



I had a webcam and various USB2+3 devices plugged in while taking this screenshot.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I am still using a heavily OC'ed GTX 570 personally, but I tried to help a friend get a good OC on his new 970 and I wasn't nearly as successful. Is it just me or do the newer cards with their Turbo Boost mode of clocking make OC'ing much more difficult than the older NVIDIA cards, particularly if you are trying to achieve a static OC with a single set of clocks and voltage settings?


Somewhat related: Is there any point in tweaking an Nvidia 770 GTX 2GB reference card to what a SC/OC 770 GTX speeds are?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Somewhat related: Is there any point in tweaking an Nvidia 770 GTX 2GB reference card to what a SC/OC 770 GTX speeds are?


If you can sustain those clocks and not run too hot, there's no reason not to. I looked up the highest factory OCs for 570 GTXs for general references on how far I could try to push mine. There were some that were 850Mhz core, 2000Mhz memory clocks, but I got random (extremely rare) display driver failures under heavy gaming loads at this high of OCing, so I backed down to 823/1952 MHz and have been stable since. My guess is the specialty factory OC'ed versions have superior PCBs to stabilize the higher OCs, but it could also be my mobo that is nerfing it (I unfortunately cheaped out on it when I bought it several years ago and didn't know any better). Still, it's higher than the stock GTX 570 clocks of 723/1900 MHz, and I only had to bump the voltage up one notch in NVIDIA Inspector.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> If you can sustain those clocks and not run too hot, there's no reason not to. I looked up the highest factory OCs for 570 GTXs for general references on how far I could try to push mine. There were some that were 850Mhz core, 2000Mhz memory clocks, but I got random (extremely rare) display driver failures under heavy gaming loads at this high of OCing, so I backed down to 823/1952 MHz and have been stable since. My guess is the specialty factory OC'ed versions have superior PCBs to stabilize the higher OCs, but it could also be my mobo that is nerfing it (I unfortunately cheaped out on it when I bought it several years ago and didn't know any better). Still, it's higher than the stock GTX 570 clocks of 723/1900 MHz, and I only had to bump the voltage up one notch in NVIDIA Inspector.


I've looked at the other brand 770's speeds and wasn't sure with the one small fan my reference card has, if it can handle that.


----------



## ncck

Honestly I didn't think intel rapid storage would have any effect, but directly after installing it I noticed my desktop cursor wasn't as snappy.

Tested in-game and it's also not as snappy, however it's VERY minimal you'd only notice if you're very sensitive to mouse input lag - generally a competitive player.

I originally had intel RST installed but a samsung firmware update caused a bsod so I had to reinstall windows, it was using the default windows driver which seemed to perform fine. I think boot up is slightly faster with RST but we're talking a second or two here which is meanningless.. also the write/read speeds are pretty much identical

So I was reading online how to get rid of intel RST but I had a question.. according to: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki/windows_7-hardware/uninstalling-the-intelr-rapid-storage-technology/e3c4b6d6-56ba-4ac5-be50-89843c9d9b22 step #5 I'm 100% positive under the IDE/ATAPI controllers it already said intel(R) 7 series chipset family sata ahci controller. But It wasn't using iA.whatever. I know that because I ran the AS benchmark and the ahci changed from microsoft to intels..

So do I follow that guide still? I'm not looking to re-corrupt my windows install.. but def noticed it was snappier without RST in terms of mouse movement

edit, update: Uninstalled it, didn't check the additional dialogue in device manager that said remove driver software, rebooted, rebooted again, then uninstalled the intel rapid storage tech from control panel, rebooted, rebooted again.. ran the as benchmark tool and it's back to the microsoft AHCI controller. However I'm certain the IDE/ATAPI portion of device manager looks different than the last time I used the microsoft controller. Either way it feels better and more responsive with mouse movement. I want to say it's a placebo but I don't think it is. Not sure how a sata controller causes mouse input lag but it did.. :/


----------



## Zerrius

Had anyone tried the VII Hero yet?
I currently have a z97 deluxe, but thinking to get rid of it and get the Hero, since Deluxe has no option for disabling HPET.
Absurd for a board that costs so much.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerrius*
> 
> Had anyone tried the VII Hero yet?
> I currently have a z97 deluxe, but thinking to get rid of it and get the Hero, since Deluxe has no option for disabling HPET.
> Absurd for a board that costs so much.


I have the Asus z97 pro that doesn't have the option to disable hpet either.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I have the Asus z97 pro that doesn't have the option to disable hpet either.


if the deluxe doesn't have it, the pro shouldn't have it either. common sense there.


----------



## deepor

Isn't there some other way to disable its use in Windows? Does it show up as a device in the Device Manager and does disabling that work? Or what about a boot option for the kernel that you can set with bcdedit? I've seen something about a hardware clock the last time I looked at possible boot settings for Windows 8.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Isn't there some other way to disable its use in Windows? Does it show up as a device in the Device Manager and does disabling that work? Or what about a boot option for the kernel that you can set with bcdedit? I've seen something about a hardware clock the last time I looked at possible boot settings for Windows 8.


HPET is always enabled on some boards or the option isn't in bios, I doubt this has enough of an effect on mouse input that anyone would be disrupted by it. After reformat my pc is pretty barebones and with aero off it's very snappy, if you wanted anything snappier you'd probably be heading over to a CRT monitor.

From my experience here are the 'major' causes of input lag

1) low framerates, the lower the more input lag, the higher the less input lag. Also heavy frame variation can cause inconsistency - you want a stable framerate

2) Max-pre render frames - having this value on default or 3 will give better performance, but will make input slightly less responsive - having it set to 1 or 0 on very old drivers will hurt performance but make input feel more snappy. 0 hurts performance pretty heavily from my memory, about 15+ fps lost in all scenarios

3) Monitor Refresh rate

4) background things running while game is running - for example having a browser open with tons of tabs using flash player will have a slightly negative effect, I think it's more related to flash player though.

5) Windows aero, having windows aero disabled makes a difference in both full-screen and border fullscreen

6) Performing scaling on the GPU causes more input lag than performing it on the monitor - I didn't see much difference from no scaling / scale aspect ratio to monitor. However if you play in native resolutions you can disable scaling

I guess also a lot of things plugged into USB slots can slow down your mouse input as well, also I'd always plug my mouse into a usb slot on the rear panel attached to the motherboard and never the front panel or say a monitor/keyboard usb slot

Everything else in this guide can probably help with dpc latency but as long as you're in the green your audio won't really chop out in-game and majority of these things look like he went a little bit overboard and began having placebo effects. However I don't doubt a high dpc latency causes a lot of lag, it probably does. But the difference between 2 and 60 is most likely nothing. And after about 350-400 fps in a game you stop noticing any changes in smoothness, assuming it's there and stable. I couldn't tell much difference between 500 fps and 999 fps in warsow, maybe my mouse input was 0.2 ms faster lol


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> HPET is always enabled on some boards or the option isn't in bios, I doubt this has enough of an effect on mouse input that anyone would be disrupted by it. After reformat my pc is pretty barebones and with aero off it's very snappy, if you wanted anything snappier you'd probably be heading over to a CRT monitor.


Ideally you want to have both. HPET makes a pretty significant difference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Everything else in this guide can probably help with dpc latency but as long as you're in the green your audio won't really chop out in-game and majority of these things look like he went a little bit overboard and began having placebo effects. However I don't doubt a high dpc latency causes a lot of lag, it probably does. But the difference between 2 and 60 is most likely nothing. And after about 350-400 fps in a game you stop noticing any changes in smoothness, assuming it's there and stable. I couldn't tell much difference between 500 fps and 999 fps in warsow, maybe my mouse input was 0.2 ms faster lol


Improving DCP latency is not just about audio response, not to mention that a lot of the 'fixes' aren't DPC related (or at least not directly). That said, the difference between 2 and 60 microseconds is also significant.


----------



## wes1099

I just made a revolutionary discovery (it's at least revolutionary to me). The popular VOIP software called Mumble causes lots of DCP latency and mouse acceleration because it always forces itself into high priority. The only fixes that I have been able to find are:

1) Download a program called prio that makes processes remember their priority level and set mumble to normal/low.

2) Manually change the mumble process to normal/low priority every time you launch it .

3) Make a .bat file to launch your games at high priority (I don't understand why this would work but someone said it worked for them).


----------



## agsz

I recently had to pick up a new mobo/cpu, same programs, settings, drivers, etc. as my old mobo/cpu, which sat around 20-25us. now it's anywhere from 50-80us..


----------



## deepor

What was your old CPU and board, and what's your new CPU and board?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> What was your old CPU and board, and what's your new CPU and board?


Old: Asus Z87-A + i5 4670k
New: Asus Z97-AR + i7 4790k


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Old: Asus Z87-A + i5 4670k
> New: Asus Z97-AR + i7 4790k


Which gpu do you have btw ?


----------



## dahahanne

I cant get rid of the native flash player in windows 8.1, feeling really down about it since it might be causing ****.

+ Cant see all of the progams installed in add/remove programs, also somewhat disturbing.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> Which gpu do you have btw ?


NVIDIA GTX 770 2GB reference card


----------



## beatfried

this is like the best thread ever.
its like an audiophile-forum-discussion about amps and cablesound.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dahahanne*
> 
> I cant get rid of the native flash player in windows 8.1, feeling really down about it since it might be causing ****.
> 
> + Cant see all of the progams installed in add/remove programs, also somewhat disturbing.


You probably need to uninstall ie for that. You could try revo uninstaller or another program that uninstalls for you.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dahahanne*
> 
> I cant get rid of the native flash player in windows 8.1, feeling really down about it since it might be causing ****.
> 
> + Cant see all of the progams installed in add/remove programs, also somewhat disturbing.


What are you talking about? Windows doesn't come with Flash installed. It comes with other programs.

But yeah, Revo Uninstaller is your best bet.


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Old: Asus Z87-A + i5 4670k
> New: Asus Z97-AR + i7 4790k


So the new board is crap. You probably should have just upgraded the CPU.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> What are you talking about? Windows doesn't come with Flash installed. It comes with other programs.
> 
> But yeah, Revo Uninstaller is your best bet.


Win 8.1 with IE has flash built in, probably to keep it updated properly since Adobe refuse to check more than once every couple of weeks or so.


----------



## Conditioned

I have the option of a really good deal on a Benq XL2720Z I'm wondering if there is a consensus on how good it is?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> So the new board is crap. You probably should have just upgraded the CPU.


Well my old setup wasn't working, have yet to troubleshoot old mobo/cpu to see what's broke.


----------



## Topkek007

HPET on and http://vvvv.org/sites/all/modules/general/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=http://vvvv.org/sites/default/files/uploads/TimerToolV2.zip&nid=112931 (http://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool) set to 1 ms seems to be a great combination..


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topkek007*
> 
> HPET on and http://vvvv.org/sites/all/modules/general/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=http://vvvv.org/sites/default/files/uploads/TimerToolV2.zip&nid=112931 (http://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool) set to 1 ms seems to be a great combination..


I like this. You can run it only when certain programs are running and as a system service (ie hidden): http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=376458


----------



## agsz

For newer NVIDIA Drivers, since the screenshot of the NVIDIA settings is for older drivers: What do you set 'Shader Cache' to? It claims that being On, it reduces stutter.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I just made a revolutionary discovery (it's at least revolutionary to me). The popular VOIP software called Mumble causes lots of DCP latency and mouse acceleration because it always forces itself into high priority. The only fixes that I have been able to find are:
> 
> 1) Download a program called prio that makes processes remember their priority level and set mumble to normal/low.
> 
> 2) Manually change the mumble process to normal/low priority every time you launch it .
> 
> 3) Make a .bat file to launch your games at high priority (I don't understand why this would work but someone said it worked for them).


Good find. I actually renamed the mumble.exe, then wrote a small replacement mumble.exe that launches the renamed original mumble executable and changes its priority to normal. This way, shortcuts for Mumble are still valid but will launch with normal priority, and the same for links that open Mumble (like TF2Center.com game lobbies, for instance). And you don't have to do any of the options 1, 2, or 3 as above. I can post this for download if anyone wants.

And btw, the .bat file to launch high priority isn't necessary for Source games at least, which can do this with the -high launch option. I'm not sure having the game high priority and leaving Mumble high priority would completely solve the issues you described. I like to have games always run as high priority anyways, and it will solve the Mumble issue best if you run the game high priority AND run Mumble Normal priority using your options 1 or 2 or my replacement mumble.exe


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> For newer NVIDIA Drivers, since the screenshot of the NVIDIA settings is for older drivers: What do you set 'Shader Cache' to? It claims that being On, it reduces stutter.


Keeps compiled shaders cached to hard disk space, instead of keeping shaders that aren't immediately being used in RAM or dropping unused ones altogether and recompiling them every time they're needed.

This is a good setting that should almost always be on, even though it won't make much difference for higher end systems on games like CS:GO. I think it helps more for systems that have limited RAM (< 4 GB) and for games with lots of complicated shaders. The only time I would imagine it would hurt performance is if you have a horribad hard drive (in which case you probably have other bigger performance problems anyway) or your hard drive is too close to full capacity already, so caching the shaders to hard drive reduces the free space below the threshold at which Windows performance starts to deteriorate.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Keeps compiled shaders cached to hard disk space, instead of keeping shaders that aren't immediately being used in RAM or dropping unused ones altogether and recompiling them every time they're needed.
> 
> This is a good setting that should almost always be on, even though it won't make much difference for higher end systems on games like CS:GO. I think it helps more for systems that have limited RAM (< 4 GB) and for games with lots of complicated shaders. The only time I would imagine it would hurt performance is if you have a horribad hard drive (in which case you probably have other bigger performance problems anyway) or your hard drive is too close to full capacity already, so caching the shaders to hard drive reduces the free space below the threshold at which Windows performance starts to deteriorate.


I haven't personally tested it yet, always set it to off. There's a bunch of forum threads on ESEA (CS:GO site), claiming Shader Cache being On gave them microstutters and fps drops, so when I upgraded to 337.88 from 335.23 I just kept it off. On that topic, I've been debating trying out 344.11 since I've seen r0ach mention it being good.


----------



## Angrychair

I really do not agree with alot of the bios tweaks mentioned in in the OP. Some of the voltage settings for one. And how is enabling or disabling 1394(firewire) going to effect USB, especially if not using firewire?


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Good find. I actually renamed the mumble.exe, then wrote a small replacement mumble.exe that launches the renamed original mumble executable and changes its priority to normal. This way, shortcuts for Mumble are still valid but will launch with normal priority, and the same for links that open Mumble (like TF2Center.com game lobbies, for instance). And you don't have to do any of the options 1, 2, or 3 as above. I can post this for download if anyone wants.
> 
> And btw, the .bat file to launch high priority isn't necessary for Source games at least, which can do this with the -high launch option. I'm not sure having the game high priority and leaving Mumble high priority would completely solve the issues you described. I like to have games always run as high priority anyways, and it will solve the Mumble issue best if you run the game high priority AND run Mumble Normal priority using your options 1 or 2 or my replacement mumble.exe


Good idea. I don't know why I didn't think of that in the first place. Could you post the code for the .bat file? I don't have much experience with windows command line so I have no idea what I am doing there.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I haven't personally tested it yet, always set it to off. There's a bunch of forum threads on ESEA (CS:GO site), claiming Shader Cache being On gave them microstutters and fps drops, so when I upgraded to 337.88 from 335.23 I just kept it off. On that topic, I've been debating trying out 344.11 since I've seen r0ach mention it being good.


Yes I think I remember Shader Cache causing an issue back in those driver versions, but whatever it was has been tidied up now. I haven't seen anyone reporting microstutters or FPS drops from 344.11 and later drivers.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Yes I think I remember Shader Cache causing an issue back in those driver versions, but whatever it was has been tidied up now. I haven't seen anyone reporting microstutters or FPS drops from 344.11 and later drivers.


Would you say its worth upgrading to 344.11 from 337.88? Before 344.11 I tried upgrading and felt a noticeable difference in my game, so I decided to rollback and not upgrade again lol


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Good idea. I don't know why I didn't think of that in the first place. Could you post the code for the .bat file? I don't have much experience with windows command line so I have no idea what I am doing there.


I tried with a .bat file but the commands to start with Normal priority had no effect. So I had to do a little more complicated scripting that I compiled into an .exe. Here's a link to a .zip file containing the .exe and instructions: http://sourcegl.sourceforge.net/MumbleFix.zip


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Would you say its worth upgrading to 344.11 from 337.88? Before 344.11 I tried upgrading and felt a noticeable difference in my game, so I decided to rollback and not upgrade again lol


There was a bad issue with NVIDIA drivers having mouse movement much faster than normal (possibly from overclocking USB) for awhile that was fixed with 344.11 Beta. I personally have even upgraded to 347.52 because I found that it has the same good mouse movement as 344.11 Beta, but it's slightly more stable for my highly overclocked video card (I would get an occasional BSOD with 344.11 Beta). I'm not sure if 337.88 was before or during these mouse movement issues. If your mouse feels noticeably slower after switching to 344.11 Beta or 347.52, then you've been playing with unnaturally fast mouse movement. If the cursor movement feels the same, then 337.88 was right before the NVIDIA drivers started having this issue.

Either way, I would definitely think 344.11 Beta or 347.52 is worth upgrading to.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I tried with a .bat file but the commands to start with Normal priority had no effect. So I had to do a little more complicated scripting that I compiled into an .exe. Here's a link to a .zip file containing the .exe and instructions: http://sourcegl.sourceforge.net/MumbleFix.zip


Ok. Thanks!


----------



## Brightmist

That switcheroo didn't work, Mumble2.exe still launched as high priority.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> There was a bad issue with NVIDIA drivers having mouse movement much faster than normal (possibly from overclocking USB) for awhile that was fixed with 344.11 Beta. I personally have even upgraded to 347.52 because I found that it has the same good mouse movement as 344.11 Beta, but it's slightly more stable for my highly overclocked video card (I would get an occasional BSOD with 344.11 Beta). I'm not sure if 337.88 was before or during these mouse movement issues. If your mouse feels noticeably slower after switching to 344.11 Beta or 347.52, then you've been playing with unnaturally fast mouse movement. If the cursor movement feels the same, then 337.88 was right before the NVIDIA drivers started having this issue.
> 
> Either way, I would definitely think 344.11 Beta or 347.52 is worth upgrading to.


Honestly don't remember, I've only used 335.23 & 337.88 for more than 10-15 minutes. I recently switched my display options to: No Scaling & Perform Scaling On: Display. I noticed I was getting FPS drops though, I didn't think the scaling options could affect my FPS, and in a FPS sensitive game like CS:GO, it sucks badly.


----------



## Cyro999

Scaling options shouldn't affect your actual FPS at all AFAIK. If they do in a significant way, break out the benchmarking tools because it should be easy to prove (though i doubt it).

FPS is much easier to measure than "mouse feel"


----------



## agsz

Guess I'll try 347.52, my game just crashed saying Display Driver 337.88 just stopped working, went back in had 100 fps max, and had to reboot to fix it..


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> That switcheroo didn't work, Mumble2.exe still launched as high priority.


Hm, works fine for me in Windows 7 64-bit. I'm guessing that maybe you're using Windows 8 or 8.1 because things like this seem to be a little different even though I have no first-hand experience with 8/8.1. Maybe try ticking the run as administrator option for one or both of my mumble.exe and mumble2.exe and relaunching using mumble.exe. See if any combination of admin privileges lets the priority be set properly. I will go ahead and update the .zip file I posted with a new mumble.exe that should be able to dictate admin privileges for itself


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrychair*
> 
> I really do not agree with alot of the bios tweaks mentioned in in the OP. Some of the voltage settings for one. And how is enabling or disabling 1394(firewire) going to effect USB, especially if not using firewire?


Yeah, same here. I'm very skeptical about most of the stuff mentioned, but I still like the thread as it's a collection of a lot of things that might be interesting to look at. I just decide by myself after thinking about it and experimenting, and you should do the same.


----------



## CookieBook

Is there any difference between 347.25 and 347.52?


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*


Aight, checked "Run as administrator" for both exes and it did the trick on Win8.1 x64. Thanks.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Is there any difference between 347.25 and 347.52?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Is there any difference between 347.25 and 347.52?


Quote from VolsAndJezuz "Installed NVIDIA driver 347.25 and it seems really good so far. Mouse movement seems equally consistent with 344.11 BETA with the increased FPS from 347.09"
He said he recently updated to 347.52, hopefully he'll see this and respond.


----------



## agsz

@VolsAndJezuz Do you remember which drivers had the mouse movement issue?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Is there any difference between 347.25 and 347.52?


I can't tell any difference in mouse movement between the two personally. And stability has been equally good with both. I haven't rigorously tested the FPS I get with them, but from random FPS rate captures with FRAPS they seem comparable in that regard as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> @VolsAndJezuz Do you remember which drivers had the mouse movement issue?


I had misrembered the correct gap where there was bad mouse movement with NVIDIA drivers, because I just checked my post history to find the original discussion. It's the drivers in between 344.11 and 347.09 that were bad, not including those two. Sorry for the misinformation earlier.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrychair*
> 
> I really do not agree with alot of the bios tweaks mentioned in in the OP. *Some of the voltage settings for one*.


Well, I've been building PCs since the 486 back when you had to set jumpers on the motherboard to get the thing to work, so I remember how computers felt before these settings existed. The history behind the setting PLL overvoltage, from what I hear, is that Intel boards were overclocking easier than 3rd party boards and PLL overvoltage setting was the reason so they started to leave it as default on (auto is on), on "overclocker" boards.

Immediately after testing the setting I noticed that you got more of an undershoot feeling with it off and more of an overshoot feeling with it on. I use a constant baseline mouse movement of 800 DPI 1000hz, so it's easy for me to spot changes. Some people just set complete random BIOS settings then tune their mouse DPI and sensitivity afterwards to compensate. Those people will find it much harder to spot changes.

As for whether you will perform better with PLL overvoltage on or off, it highly depends on if you feel your mouse cursor currently undershoots or overshoots. Since this is a setting that might be here today and gone tomorrow depending on PC architecture, it seems more logical to me to turn it off since it should provide a more classic mouse feel.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I had misrembered the correct gap where there was bad mouse movement with NVIDIA drivers, because I just checked my post history to find the original discussion. It's the drivers in between 344.11 and 347.09 that were bad, not including those two. Sorry for the misinformation earlier.


Yea, 344.11 and 344.16 are both solid on Win 8.1, then there were a few sketchy drivers after while Nvidia was screwing with Gsync and those upscaling "features", then 347.09 beta was very good input lag wise. I didn't get as good results with 347.09 whql for some reason.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dahahanne*
> 
> I cant get rid of the native flash player in windows 8.1, feeling really down about it since it might be causing ****.
> 
> + Cant see all of the progams installed in add/remove programs, also somewhat disturbing.


Not being able to get rid of flash in Win 8.1 also highly bothers me. It's unbelievable that Microsoft would lock this into your OS when it's also such a big security risk. Flash is quickly becoming completely obsolete now that Youtube seems to have rid themselves of it, so hopefully it will go extinct soon.


----------



## thrillhaus

The whole point of getting an X-Fi card is for CMSS's HRTF.


----------



## CookieBook

I've heard stories about driver crashes while playing CS:GO on .52, I guess I'll stick to .25


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I've heard stories about driver crashes while playing CS:GO on .52, I guess I'll stick to .25


Is that an issue with the driver or just bad luck? I had my 337.88 driver crash for the first time in months last night. Had to reboot to get my fps back above 100. Wound up switching back to 335.23, but could feel a noticeable different in mouse movement, even though I did the same slightly less than 270° turn swiping left to right across my mousepad.


----------



## agsz

Decided to set my PC to XMP Profile #1 so my ram timings/frequency is correct, DPC latency dropped from 45-80 to 20-35.


----------



## jtl999

Yeah. RAM settings can do weird things -_-


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *Well, I've been building PCs since the 486 back when you had to set jumpers on the motherboard to get the thing to work, so I remember how computers felt before these settings existed.* The history behind the setting PLL overvoltage, from what I hear, is that Intel boards were overclocking easier than 3rd party boards and PLL overvoltage setting was the reason so they started to leave it as default on (auto is on), on "overclocker" boards.
> 
> Immediately after testing the setting I noticed that you got more of an undershoot feeling with it off and more of an overshoot feeling with it on. I use a constant baseline mouse movement of 800 DPI 1000hz, so it's easy for me to spot changes. Some people just set complete random BIOS settings then tune their mouse DPI and sensitivity afterwards to compensate. Those people will find it much harder to spot changes.
> 
> As for whether you will perform better with PLL overvoltage on or off, it highly depends on if you feel your mouse cursor currently undershoots or overshoots. Since this is a setting that might be here today and gone tomorrow depending on PC architecture, it seems more logical to me to turn it off since it should provide a more classic mouse feel.
> Yea, 344.11 and 344.16 are both solid on Win 8.1, then there were a few sketchy drivers after while Nvidia was screwing with Gsync and those upscaling "features", then 347.09 beta was very good input lag wise. I didn't get as good results with 347.09 whql for some reason.
> Not being able to get rid of flash in Win 8.1 also highly bothers me. It's unbelievable that Microsoft would lock this into your OS when it's also such a big security risk. Flash is quickly becoming completely obsolete now that Youtube seems to have rid themselves of it, so hopefully it will go extinct soon.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I was referring to single DPI mice days like the MLT04 and CRT monitors. I honestly don't remember what ball mice felt like. The tracking was never consistent because they would always get stuff stuck in them, so I never had any kind of baseline for how they should perform. _*The MLT04 was released in 1996, I think, that's about as far back as I can remember for if components performed good or bad as well.*_


Considering the 486 was released in 1989, and replaced by the Pentium in 1993, and then again by Pentium Pro in 95 all before the MS Intellimouse that you claim to be "as far back as I can remember for if components performed good or bad" hit the scene in 1996, something seems a wee bit fishy here...








Don't mind me though, I actually think this whole coconut-audio-of-mice thing you have going on is pretty genius.


----------



## Conditioned

This was written by a guy from win 8 rtm. Seems to work fine but havent tried it extensivley so you at your own risk:

:: kill-w8-flash.bat
@echo off
echo Batch file to kill Windows 8 integrated Flash
echo Tested on Windows 8 x64
echo.
echo If you know what you're doing:
pause

regsvr32 -u C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\Flash\Flash.ocx
takeown /f C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\* /r /d Y
icacls C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\* /t /c /reset
icacls C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\* /t /c /inheritance:r
icacls C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\* /t /grant:r %username%:f
rmdir /s /q C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed

regsvr32 -u C:\Windows\System32\Macromed\Flash\Flash.ocx
takeown /f C:\Windows\System32\Macromed\* /r /d Y
icacls C:\Windows\System32\Macromed\* /t /c /reset
icacls C:\Windows\System32\Macromed\* /t /c /inheritance:r
icacls C:\Windows\System32\Macromed\* /t /grant:r %username%:f
rmdir /s /q C:\Windows\System32\Macromed

takeown /f C:\Windows\WinSXS\Manifests\*adobe* /r /d Y
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\Manifests\*adobe* /t /c /reset
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\Manifests\*adobe* /t /c /inheritance:r
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\Manifests\*adobe* /t /grant:r %username%:f
del C:\Windows\WinSXS\Manifests\*adobe* /f /q

takeown /f C:\Windows\WinSXS\FileMaps\*flash* /r /d Y
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\FileMaps\*flash* /t /c /reset
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\FileMaps\*flash* /t /c /inheritance:r
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\FileMaps\*flash* /t /grant:r %username%:f
del C:\Windows\WinSXS\FileMaps\*flash* /f /q

takeown /f C:\Windows\WinSXS\*adobe* /r /d Y
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\*adobe* /t /c /reset
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\*adobe* /t /c /inheritance:r
icacls C:\Windows\WinSXS\*adobe* /t /grant:r %username%:f
for /f "tokens=*" %%f in (
'dir /b C:\Windows\WinSXS\*adobe*flash*'
) do (
rd /s /q C:\Windows\WinSXS\%%f
)

echo.
echo Done!
echo Flash killed!
echo.
pause


----------



## agsz

Referring to the OP: Why is it better to have Threaded Optimization set to 'Off'?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Considering the 486 was released in 1989, and replaced by the Pentium in 1993, and then again by Pentium Pro in 95 all before the MS Intellimouse that you claim to be "as far back as I can remember for if components performed good or bad" hit the scene in 1996, something seems a wee bit fishy here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mind me though, I actually think this whole coconut-audio-of-mice thing you have going on is pretty genius.


Not sure what you're even trying to say. I said I don't really remember how ball mice tracked because they always had something stuck in the rollers and it's been a long time since I used one so of course I don't remember how they performed too well. It's much harder to quantify the quality of a subjective device like a mouse that you haven't used in 20 years than it is for a CPU. What is there to say about a CPU? It calculates integers and floating point without exploding?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Referring to the OP: Why is it better to have Threaded Optimization set to 'Off'?


Haven't done much testing of the setting on Win8.1, but on Win7 it caused more lag. From a common sense perspective, there's no reason it shouldn't while having to coordinate load between more/multiple workers.

Multithreading is a weak point of games and code in general and the only programs that do it well are generally non-realtime apps like renderers or compression, etc. Again, from a common sense perspective in computing, if you can get higher than your monitor refresh rate with it off, there is no reason you would want it to be on. The strange part is that I've never really noticed any benefit from it being on.

Maybe someone, somewhere has benched this setting in games before, but I didn't see any benefit to anything I played. I think I even tested it in Crysis 3 and saw no difference.

Using lots of threads in computing is also where you run into problems with clock drift/skew. This is probably why Intel started forcing HPET on for motherboards with huge numbers of cores with hyperthreading in some of these newer motherboards.

I don't know if DX12 will actually change anything, but as a general rule of thumb so far, the more multithreaded an engine is, the more bogged down and less responsive it usually is as well.


----------



## r0ach

*double post*


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Not sure what you're even trying to say. I said I don't really remember how ball mice tracked because they always had something stuck in the rollers and it's been a long time since I used one so of course I don't remember how they performed too well. It's much harder to quantify the quality of a subjective device like a mouse that you haven't used in 20 years than it is for a CPU. What is there to say about a CPU? It calculates integers and floating point without exploding?
> Haven't done much testing of the setting on Win8.1, but on Win7 it caused more lag. From a common sense perspective, there's no reason it shouldn't while having to coordinate load between multiple workers.
> 
> Multithreading is a weak point of games and code in general and the only programs that do it well are generally non-realtime apps like renderers or compression, etc. Again, from a common sense perspective in computing, if you can get higher than your monitor refresh rate with it off, there is no reason you would want it to be on. The strange part is that I've never really noticed any benefit from it being on.
> 
> Maybe someone, somewhere has benched this setting in games before, but I didn't see any benefit to anything I played. I think I even tested it in Crysis 3 and saw no difference.


Yeah I figured based on the description it would do nothing but help, but then again Shader Cache claims to reduce stutter and in fact causes it. (at least with 337.88 drivers)


----------



## timason

Great guide, my dpc latency checker is getting max 30 and avg 6-10 after a computer restart while I am not doing anything.
I have the sabertooth z77, and on my bios settings there are options for hardware prefetching and superfetching. Does this have anything to do with the prefetching and superfetching you mention in your guide? Should i leave it on or off?

Thanks,
Tim


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Referring to the OP: Why is it better to have Threaded Optimization set to 'Off'?


Test it yourself. I generally find lower frame rates when it's set to either on or off, depending on the game. I find no problems keeping it on the Auto setting.


----------



## Kyube

Currently running on this setup:
AMD Phenom II X4 840
Radeon HD5670
MSI GF615M-P33
Using a FK'14 w/ a QFR Ultimate (USB), on-board audio & Win7

Did the *Services* and *Windows Components* tweaks, uninstalled Java & Flash and getting ~50µs in dpclat and Latencymon while idle.
Do you possibly know more tweaks which I could do on this AMD build to go for lower µs and better mouse feel or atleast some tweaks in CCC?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Just to provide the other side of the threaded optimization argument... I personally have it on for CS:GO and TF2 (and even Arma 2/DayZ). It substantially increases FPS for all those cases. And because I use RInput through sourceGL (same would apply for in-game raw input users) for the first two, I find the increase in fluidity and connectedness from higher framerate to be preferable to the minor, all-but-unnoticeable improvement in clock skew/drift/_et al_. At least for my setup/config/hardware I find this to be the case.

CS:GO multithreading is actually fairly well optimized and implemented, so it rarely leads to anything in the framerate/input being disconnected and instead just allows for more efficient CPU utilization. In fact on my old i5-2500k/GTX 570 build I just upgraded, threaded optimization made it to where CS:GO's GPU utilization was nearly constantly maxed out, which was definitely not the case with it off. To me this says the bottleneck in my framerate went from being my CPU to my GPU when I used threaded optimization.

Also I should say that I have much higher personal taste for preferable FPS compared to r0ach and other single thread supporters. With RInput/raw input particularly, I can feel when I'm getting < 300 FPS, exponentially so as it heads down towards my monitor refresh rate, and when it dips under 144 FPS I start to see the microstuttering visually instead of just feeling it. This is particularly noticeable in my movement like bhops/air strafing, and twitchy mouse movements, like switching back and forth between checking two angles as quickly as possible in CS:GO.

If I had to sum of the difference in my approach versus r0ach's in this instance, it would be that I value *immediate* mouse response above all else, which r0ach is prioritizing *consistent* mouse response above all else. I'm willing to make this tradeoff because I feel like the consistency takes care of itself in a well tuned gaming build with a proper Windows/driver setup and good game config.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Just to provide the other side of the threaded optimization argument... I personally have it on for CS:GO and TF2 (and even Arma 2/DayZ). It substantially increases FPS for all those cases. And because I use RInput through sourceGL (same would apply for in-game raw input users) for the first two, I find the increase in fluidity and connectedness from higher framerate to be preferable to the minor, all-but-unnoticeable improvement in clock skew/drift/_et al_. At least for my setup/config/hardware I find this to be the case.
> 
> CS:GO multithreading is actually fairly well optimized and implemented, so it rarely leads to anything in the framerate/input being disconnected and instead just allows for more efficient CPU utilization. In fact on my old i5-2500k/GTX 570 build I just upgraded, threaded optimization made it to where CS:GO's GPU utilization was nearly constantly maxed out, which was definitely not the case with it off. To me this says the bottleneck in my framerate went from being my CPU to my GPU when I used threaded optimization.
> 
> Also I should say that I have much higher personal taste for preferable FPS compared to r0ach and other single thread supporters. With RInput/raw input particularly, I can feel when I'm getting < 300 FPS, exponentially so as it heads down towards my monitor refresh rate, and when it dips under 144 FPS I start to see the microstuttering visually instead of just feeling it. This is particularly noticeable in my movement like bhops/air strafing, and twitchy mouse movements, like switching back and forth between checking two angles as quickly as possible in CS:GO.
> 
> If I had to sum of the difference in my approach versus r0ach's in this instance, it would be that I value *immediate* mouse response above all else, which r0ach is prioritizing *consistent* mouse response above all else. I'm willing to make this tradeoff because I feel like the consistency takes care of itself in a well tuned gaming build with a proper Windows/driver setup and good game config.


With it set to 'Auto', wouldn't it be enabled when opening CS:GO? Not sure if there's a way to tell which programs it enables/disables when opening.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

That's the behavior in mine, but I'll shy away from saying that's the case universally. You can check the threading level by opening the video.txt file in the csgo/cfg folder and finding "setting.mat_queue_mode". If memory serves, 2 is multithreaded, 1 is queued singlethreaded, 0 is synchronous singlethreaded, and -1 is autodetect. Mine is 2 which I recommend for people who prefer the immediate mouse response of a high, uncapped FPS+RInput/raw input. Also, I think it would be a good idea for the performance level of the CPU and GPU to be in the same ballpark when using 2 for this setting to get the most out of multithreading, so that a slow GPU doesn't cause the multitheading to drift/skew dramatically.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> That's the behavior in mine, but I'll shy away from saying that's the case universally. You can check the threading level by opening the video.txt file in the csgo/cfg folder and finding "setting.mat_queue_mode". If memory serves, 2 is multithreaded, 1 is queued singlethreaded, 0 is synchronous singlethreaded, and -1 is autodetect. Mine is 2 which I recommend for people who prefer the immediate mouse response of a high, uncapped FPS+RInput/raw input. Also, I think it would be a good idea for the performance level of the CPU and GPU to be in the same ballpark when using 2 for this setting to get the most out of multithreading, so that a slow GPU doesn't cause the multitheading to drift/skew dramatically.


Mine is -1 in the video.txt since it's read-only, but I use mat_queue_mode 2 in launch options.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Mine is -1 in the video.txt since it's read-only, but I use mat_queue_mode 2 in launch options.


There's speculation that mat_queue_mode and many other launch options don't work anymore. Only ones we know for sure are the mouseparms as there was an official statement about that.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> There's speculation that mat_queue_mode and many other launch options don't work anymore. Only ones we know for sure are the mouseparms as there was an official statement about that.


When you launch your game, you can check console to see which cvars are null now. One example is '+mat_vignette_enable 0', it'll show up in console saying invalid cvar. With +mat_queue_mode 2 in launch, when I load my game and check the value in console, it does show as 2 though. Isn't mat_queue_mode the technical name for Multi-Core Rendering in Video Options?


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> When you launch your game, you can check console to see which cvars are null now. One example is '+mat_vignette_enable 0', it'll show up in console saying invalid cvar. With +mat_queue_mode 2 in launch, when I load my game and check the value in console, it does show as 2 though. Isn't mat_queue_mode the technical name for Multi-Core Rendering in Video Options?


You are correct.


----------



## Curleyyy

However, often the Multi-Core Rendering setting doesn't stick, hence the launch option. At least for me and my friends, anyway.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> However, often the Multi-Core Rendering setting doesn't stick, hence the launch option. At least for me and my friends, anyway.


Yeah, I did notice it reverts back to -1, which I believe then goes by your Multi-Core Rendering setting in Video Settings. Regardless it gets enabled I'm pretty sure. Correct me if I'm wrong but, Multi-Core Rendering: 'Enabled' = Threaded Optimization: 'On'?


----------



## CookieBook

Or, you just put "mat_queue_mode 2" in your autoexec...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Or, you just put "mat_queue_mode 2" in your autoexec...


Regardless, when you go into a server and type mat_queue_mode in console, it will come up -1. I decided to try it earlier after reading these posts.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Regardless, when you go into a server and type mat_queue_mode in console, it will come up -1. I decided to try it earlier after reading these posts.


It doesn't for me, maybe it's the read only config?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> It doesn't for me, maybe it's the read only config?


Ah, most likely. I think the folders are read-only by default, i've never changed that manually.


----------



## r0ach

Since Win 7 and Win 8 are both pretty crappy due to their own special reasons, I'm going to see what I can get out of Linux. Last time I used Linux was Gentoo for Bitcorn type stuff, but you can play just about anything on Linux now using native OGL, Wine, or Playonlinux. Now I have to sort through which desktop is the best for a Maxwell card. Someone has already pointed out earlier in this thread that the way Maxwell GPUs render is different from previous cards and while rendering a full screen hardware accelerated UI, such as Windows 8, it will render fast, but rendering a non-full screen, or non-hardware accelerated window, like the Win 7 desktop, is slower.

Trying to sort through which desktop will be the best out of: Unity, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, GNOME

Many big games like CS:GO and Torchlight 2 are now native in Linux, so there should be some combination of desktop environment and settings that beats Windows in terms of mouse movement. I will probably avoid SteamOS as the DRM has a negative to mouse movement on Windows version of Steam. If you run any Steam games on Windows, you want to install Steam, copy the steam folder to "steam 2", then go to program manager and uninstall Steam, then run Steam off the copy of the folder. You will get a message that "Steam service is not installed blah blah", but then the game will run anyway.


----------



## qsxcv

those desktop environments are all just interfaces piled onto X. they don't affect the cursor's responsiveness, but for some of them, the rest of the visible screen is composited and thus lags behind the cursor due to vsync.

oh you should try messing around with the kernel config and patches. for instance, try this https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page or http://users.on.net/~ckolivas/kernel/ at some point.
that should keep you occupied for a few years


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> those desktop environments are all just interfaces piled onto X. they don't affect the cursor's responsiveness, but for some of them, the rest of the visible screen is composited and thus lags behind the cursor due to vsync.
> 
> oh you should try messing around with the kernel config and patches. for instance, try this https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page or http://users.on.net/~ckolivas/kernel/ at some point.
> that should keep you occupied for a few years


CKolivas is big in Bitcoin world. I'll have to try his desktop response patches.

"In 2007, Kolivas announced in an email that he would cease developing for the Linux kernel. Discussing his reasons in an interview, he expressed frustration with aspects of the mainline kernel development process, which he felt did not give sufficient priority to desktop interactivity, in addition to hacking taking a toll on his health, work and family"


----------



## deepor

Of the fully-featured desktops, KDE has full user customization of the compositing. You can set a hotkey to toggle it on and off, and you can configure what it does for fullscreen stuff, and you can set up special rules for specific windows.

KDE's downside is that things are pretty convoluted with the settings, and that you have to hunt around for how to disable some of its services (I think for example the indexer for its search doesn't show up in the settings). It also generally feels a bit strangely off for some reason, reminds me a little of how using Windows feels.


----------



## r0ach

The biggest red flag for Windows reaching a dead end for gamers is when they do stuff like make the task scheduler a depency on a metro service in Win 8.1. I imagine things like this will continue forward in Windows 10. Linux distros seem like the only way out of these locked in design decisions. Like I said, my last Linux use was Gentoo, so I wonder if I'll have to use some kind of CKOlivas kernel patch to get good mouse response on a real Linux desktop.


----------



## qsxcv

the ck patch is so that the system remains responsive when there is load. responsiveness with any kernel is completely fine on a linux system that doesn't have a bunch of stuff installed (which is not the case with any of those desktop environments you listed above







)


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the ck patch is so that the system remains responsive when there is load. responsiveness with any kernel is completely fine on a linux system that doesn't have a bunch of stuff installed (which is not the case with any of those desktop environments you listed above
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Well, I have a feeling using something like Puppy Linux will give you the same problem as running a Maxwell card on Win 7 with non-aero UI, while the Maxwell card is very responsive under Win 8.1 full screen, hardware accelerated desktop mode.

Something like Linux Mint using MATE or Lubuntu would be my best choice for looks, but trying to find a combination of desktop that runs in full screen hardware accelerated mode, while also being low resource is hard to find.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Ah, most likely. I think the folders are read-only by default, i've never changed that manually.


You can't set the config.cfg file to read only. If you do, then it doesn't accept any new commands when you execute autoexec.cfg


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> You can't set the config.cfg file to read only. If you do, then it doesn't accept any new commands when you execute autoexec.cfg


It does, but it doesn't save.

I use a pretty default config.cfg and use the autoexec to put in any commands that I wanna use like my crosshair, sensitivity, and other stuff.


----------



## Conditioned

If you are going to use linux I would go with one (like gentoo) where you compile everything yourself. You can then tweak the compilation of all platforms for your arch and hardware. Possibly even compile your own kernel for the same reason. I would probably start out with a flash driven ubuntu first just to try out how it feels first.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> If you are going to use linux I would go with one (like gentoo) where you compile everything yourself. You can then tweak the compilation of all platforms for your arch and hardware. Possibly even compile your own kernel for the same reason. I would probably start out with a flash driven ubuntu first just to try out how it feels first.


Like I said, I have used Gentoo before, but I'm not knowledgable enough on all the areas of Linux that need to be adjusted for gaming in comparison to Windows. Like when Deepor was talking about how there was an indexer service that he couldn't figure out how to get rid of or whatever.

Some services also exist in Windows that you would think would have no impact on mouse movement, yet if you disable them, the mouse cursor movement goes all crazy and uncontrollable. I'm sure some Linux processes are the same way. I need to experiment more with some already made builds to see which ones got anything right.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Like I said, I have used Gentoo before, but I'm not knowledgable enough on all the areas of Linux that need to be adjusted for gaming in comparison to Windows. Like when Deepor was talking about how there was an indexer service that he couldn't figure out how to get rid of or whatever.
> 
> Some services also exist in Windows that you would think would have no impact on mouse movement, yet if you disable them, the mouse cursor movement goes all crazy and uncontrollable. I'm sure some Linux processes are the same way. I need to experiment more with some already made builds to see which ones got anything right.


What windows services?

Besides I doubt you will have crazy mousemovement by disabling stuff in linux. Unless its hardware specific. Unlik windows linux is pretty good at compartementalizing everything. The layout and design are much more elegant in that way.

Btw. It's not hard to configure your compiler. When I did this the last time, a long long time ago in a galaxy far away, you edited make.conf (iirc) and put in settings for your compiler. So (this is probably wrong but an example) --arch_amd64 would compile all your binaries, etc for amd64. There are like 3-4 other tweaks and this would allow your bins be 5-10% faster. I reckon this would not be the major benefit of this but instead it might just simply remove overhead for more instant mousemovement. This is all just pure speculation except that I lastly compiled this in a galaxy a long long time ago.


----------



## Kermit879

So I don't really understand a lot of what's in the main post and/or how to do it nor do I feel like doing all of that, but it's making me paranoid that doing this could actually make me better at CS, so I would like to do it. Anyone want to do what they can of this through teamviewer for some paypal money?


----------



## qsxcv

usually it's just -march=native -mtune=native in CFLAGS in make.conf. for most binaries i think the speedup on modern machines is probably not noticeable compared to that from more generic compiling options. the exception is probably in numerical algorithms and stuff, as those are where the processor-specific vector instructions are more common


----------



## r0ach

edit: decided to remove the thread about boats since some people can safely cross the Atlantic in a bathtub, and some people will sink the Titantic 5 miles offshore.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I started a new thread like this to maintain...except in relation to boats. As with most r0ach posts, it will most likely be interesting, informative, and maybe even frightening:
> 
> http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=994951.0


Was just listening to this as I read that:

They see me doin' me and they get so inspirated
***** you know me, I ain't worried 'bout who hatin'
Smokin' seaweed, man, now I sit adjacent

Sorry, but when I searched "_next great depression_" on Google, infowars.com was the first result... Have you been eating too many Alex Jones pills, r0ach?


----------



## r0ach

Next great depression is an understatement since it's pretty much guaranteed at least one of the numerous military power nations would use their forces to try and maintain power, whether it's the US, China, Russia, Brits, whoever. There will definitely be more things going down than the 1920's version.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Next great depression is an understatement since it's pretty much guaranteed at least one of the numerous military power nations would use their forces to try and maintain power, whether it's the US, China, Russia, Brits, whoever. There will definitely be more things going down than the 1920's version.


The recent recession has already been steadily improving for 1-2 years now. If the financial crisis hit Europe the way it did it was because it originated in the US. And even then, the impact of the recession differed from country to country. And as for China, well... they seem to be doing OK.

You've been reading fairy tales. If you really want to be safe against all unpredictable odds, then you should be making plans to move to the Moon or Mars, and even then you might get crushed by a meteorite or some other crap. WHAT IF that shark never even had the intention to eat any of you? This is what humans do, they put everything into perspective.


----------



## ice445

Wow dude. Seems like chasing the latency ghost has wasted an unbelievable amount of your time. I would have tried to find a different hobby by now if I were you...


----------



## Makav3li

What do you guys think of the tweaktown nvidia drivers? Worth giving them a try?


----------



## agsz

@r0ach: What do you think of this guys thread? http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=640814


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> What do you guys think of the tweaktown nvidia drivers? Worth giving them a try?


Tweaktown makes drivers for GeForce cards????


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> Tweaktown makes drivers for GeForce cards????


AFAIK they did that a long time ago and don't do it anymore.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> AFAIK they did that a long time ago and don't do it anymore.


Yeah... they stopped 2 years ago.


----------



## Conditioned

How to disable dwm: win 8.1: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=383450


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anusha*
> 
> Tweaktown makes drivers for GeForce cards????


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> AFAIK they did that a long time ago and don't do it anymore.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Yeah... they stopped 2 years ago.


Brainfart, I meant tweakforce.

http://www.tweakforce.com/

What do you guys think of the tweakforce nvidia drivers? Worth giving them a try?


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Brainfart, I meant tweakforce.
> 
> http://www.tweakforce.com/
> 
> What do you guys think of the tweakforce nvidia drivers? Worth giving them a try?


I didn't even know tweaktown was a thing, I was reffering to tweakforce.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> The recent recession has already been steadily improving for 1-2 years now. If the financial crisis hit Europe the way it did it was because it originated in the US. And even then, the impact of the recession differed from country to country. And as for China, well... they seem to be doing OK.
> 
> You've been reading fairy tales. If you really want to be safe against all unpredictable odds, then you should be making plans to move to the Moon or Mars, and even then you might get crushed by a meteorite or some other crap. WHAT IF that shark never even had the intention to eat any of you? This is what humans do, they put everything into perspective.


I removed the thread about boats. Some people can sail a bathtub across the Atlantic, and others will sink the Titantic 5 miles offshore, so there's really no point in talking about what would be good or safe for a particular person.

As for the economy, the fundamentals have not improved. Not only have they not improved, the fundamentals and risk are even worse now than they were in 2008. The number of large, "too big to fail" financial institutions shrank, so with capital management (or rather misallocation of capital in this case) being even more concentrated in fewer hands, risk has gone higher should any of them have trouble. They're all heavily invested in things like derivatives, relying on markets not moving more than a few percent in certain directions, but if something like the Euro actually did tank and lose a huge percent, then they either implode along with it (taking you with them), or try to force tax payer bailout.

The zero risk financial schemes with taxpayer bailout can only go on so long before it eventually backfires on them and everyone else. This is without even getting into issues of sovereign debt, consumer debt, shrinking manufacturing infrastructure, etc. It's too complex of a broken machine to continue, and it's more broken now than at any time in the history of the world. When everything is super leveraged, all it takes is something miniscule like the value of the US dollar increasing, then a foreign country can no longer afford to pay it's debts demoninated in US dollars, which makes another institution insolvent, then you're back to square one of tax payer bailout, or economic meltdown.

The whole thing is a joke which can unravel at any second. I could see them kicking the can down the road for several more years, and I could just as easily see it imploding tomorrow. The only thing certain is that it's very likely to happen during my lifetime.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I didn't even know tweaktown was a thing, I was reffering to tweakforce.


If you click the link right on the front page are Xtreme-G 347.52 windows 7-8 nvidia drivers. Looks recent to me.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> If you click the link right on the front page are Xtreme-G 347.52 windows 7-8 nvidia drivers. Looks recent to me.


My AFAIK was incorrect


----------



## Anusha

read the forums, people were saying that the 347.52 had massive stutter.


----------



## CookieBook

http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2zowqx/nvidia_control_panel_virtual_reality_prerendered/

THoughts?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2zowqx/nvidia_control_panel_virtual_reality_prerendered/
> 
> THoughts?


It's like several other Nvidia settings that do strange things to the cursor without actually making lag increase or decrease.. That one checkbox in the scaling tab for forcing scaling ovveride is one of the most drastic cursor changes (not the 3 scaling choices, but the actual override checkbox). People need to just start throwing bricks with notes written on them through hardware vendor windows that says "non-determinstic computer part, screw you".


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> How to disable dwm: win 8.1: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=383450


If you could get that to work, please enlighten us. Even after solving the black right side issue, the area where the charms bar is supposed to be is unclickable/unresponsive and interferes with games. This was mentioned in that thread you linked, but still remains unresolved.

Registry tweaks did nothing, but Start8 solved it. Someone might wanna take a look at what the program does. It's the "Disable all Windows 8 hot corners" option.

But yay, finally got a functional DWM disabled Windows 8.


----------



## r0ach

I haven't put this theory through testing, but it's very plausible. For any software or hardware engineers, I present to you:

*The Grand Unifying Theory of Bad Mouse Software*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1590#post_23695247


----------



## agsz

Was reading this thread: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044 - Is there any reason to set NVIDIA Video Card's to MSI mode? I tested it in-game, but could be placebo. DPC Latency was the same. So far only thing I've noticed decrease my DPC Latency was enabling XMP, but it made CS:GO run weird.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Was reading this thread: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044 - Is there any reason to set NVIDIA Video Card's to MSI mode? I tested it in-game, but could be placebo. DPC Latency was the same. So far only thing I've noticed decrease my DPC Latency was enabling XMP, but it made CS:GO run weird.


I can't say if there really was a difference or not, so for me it's probably placebo.

You could turn your question around: why wouldn't you enable it? I didn't see bugs using it and nothing seemed worse about performance. The only thing I see that's annoying is that you need to remember to reenable it after each driver update as the Registry entries will be set back to default by the driver's setup program (but you can export a .reg file in regedit, so redoing it is just a double-click on that file).

It's by default enabled for all devices that can do it in Linux, including the NVIDIA device+driver, so the guys over there don't seem to see downsides and aren't afraid of bugs.


----------



## CookieBook

I just put my GTX 780 in MSI mode and it is giving me a lower overall DPC (~10 as opposed to 25) but I get wierd spikes every 2-5 seconds up to ~150 :/


----------



## Versus2190

"Texture filtering - Trilianer optimization" can be turned off in 344.11. Should I leave it on enabled or disable it for better mouse response?
What ist the difference between "maximum pre-renderd frames" and "virtual reality pre-renderd frames"? The first one is set to "use the application setting" but the second one is set to 1 frame by default?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I can't say if there really was a difference or not, so for me it's probably placebo.
> 
> You could turn your question around: why wouldn't you enable it? I didn't see bugs using it and nothing seemed worse about performance. The only thing I see that's annoying is that you need to remember to reenable it after each driver update as the Registry entries will be set back to default by the driver's setup program (but you can export a .reg file in regedit, so redoing it is just a double-click on that file).
> 
> It's by default enabled for all devices that can do it in Linux, including the NVIDIA device+driver, so the guys over there don't seem to see downsides and aren't afraid of bugs.


So it can only help, not hurt at all? I reset it due to blue screening from putting ATA to MSI mode as a test. Also curious if I shouldn't have done these Windows updates:


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> I just put my GTX 780 in MSI mode and it is giving me a lower overall DPC (~10 as opposed to 25) but I get wierd spikes every 2-5 seconds up to ~150 :/


Did you get those without MSI mode enabled? I'm still curious as to why with my new mobo/cpu I get 40-60us (20-40us XMP enabled), vs. the 20-40us I got with my old mobo/cpu (NEW: Asus Z97-AR + i7-4790k ~ OLD: Asus Z87-A + i5-4670)


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Did you get those without MSI mode enabled? I'm still curious as to why with my new mobo/cpu I get 40-60us (20-40us XMP enabled), vs. the 20-40us I got with my old mobo/cpu (NEW: Asus Z97-AR + i7-4790k ~ OLD: Asus Z87-A + i5-4670)


Without MSI mode no issues at all. Might be my mobo (MSI z87 G45-gamig)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Without MSI mode no issues at all. Might be my mobo (MSI z87 G45-gamig)


Go into Device Manager -> View Resources by Type -> IRQ -> Than look at the bottom for PCI devices, do any of them have a negative number? Most modern motherboards support MSI I believe.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> So it can only help, not hurt at all? I reset it due to blue screening from putting ATA to MSI mode as a test. Also curious if I shouldn't have done these Windows updates:


I also got that crash with the Microsoft ATA driver. The Intel one works in MSI mode. All other drivers I tried didn't crash even if they didn't want to work in MSI mode, instead just ignored it and stayed in the normal IRQ mode, so it's just that one Microsoft driver that was a problem for me.

CookieBook just posted that he found a problem with MSI mode on his PC and his card, so I guess it's not guaranteed that it's fine?

No idea about the Windows updates. I installed that Intel driver in your screenshot just to get the device's name to show up correctly, but afterwards I'm usually disabling that Intel Management Engine device (in the Device Manager), so I guess you could say it's pointless to have the driver.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Go into Device Manager -> View Resources by Type -> IRQ -> Than look at the bottom for PCI devices, do any of them have a negative number? Most modern motherboards support MSI I believe.


Yeh my USB 3.0 had a negative number but I installed that as soon as I saw that I even had it.

I mean it boots and all that, it just gives me annoying lag spikes that I can feel in-game and it gives me no advantages.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I also got that crash with the Microsoft ATA driver. The Intel one works in MSI mode. All other drivers I tried didn't crash even if they didn't want to work in MSI mode, instead just ignored it and stayed in the normal IRQ mode, so it's just that one Microsoft driver that was a problem for me.
> 
> CookieBook just posted that he found a problem with MSI mode on his PC and his card, so I guess it's not guaranteed that it's fine?
> 
> No idea about the Windows updates. I installed that Intel driver in your screenshot just to get the device's name to show up correctly, but afterwards I'm usually disabling that Intel Management Engine device (in the Device Manager), so I guess you could say it's pointless to have the driver.


Ah, was just curious if it could cause any harm. Yeah that's odd that it caused spikes, if anything it should help.


----------



## x7007

I wouldn't suggest using MSI mode for the graphics card, at least not for the desktop Nvidia GPUS , cause for some reason if I try to enable MSI for it the 3D performance becomes crap, there is super high mouse latency and other weird effects that makes everything in 3D really crap.

The funny thing on my Laptop Asus G751 with 970GTX it is Auto MSI enabled by default when I first got it and every time I install the nvidia drivers.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I also got that crash with the Microsoft ATA driver. The Intel one works in MSI mode. All other drivers I tried didn't crash even if they didn't want to work in MSI mode, instead just ignored it and stayed in the normal IRQ mode, so it's just that one Microsoft driver that was a problem for me.
> 
> CookieBook just posted that he found a problem with MSI mode on his PC and his card, so I guess it's not guaranteed that it's fine?
> 
> No idea about the Windows updates. I installed that Intel driver in your screenshot just to get the device's name to show up correctly, but afterwards I'm usually disabling that Intel Management Engine device (in the Device Manager), so I guess you could say it's pointless to have the driver.


I updated my Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller and it now runs in MSI mode..odd


----------



## ice445

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I updated my Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller and it now runs in MSI mode..odd


The Intel AHCI driver has always run in MSI mode, since basically forever. It's part of how it achieves better IOPS and read/write speeds.


----------



## r0ach

In search of things that might be useful for gaming on Linux, I came across RTAI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTAI

Quote:


> RTAI stands for Real-Time Application Interface. It is a real-time extension for the Linux kernel - which lets users write applications with strict timing constraints for Linux.
> 
> RTAI provides deterministic response to interrupts, POSIX compliant and native RTAI real-time tasks.
> 
> Realtime Application Interface consists mainly of two parts:
> 
> An Adeos-based patch to the Linux kernel which introduces a hardware abstraction layer
> 
> A broad variety of services which make real-time programmers' lives easier
> 
> RTAI versions over 3.0 use an Adeos kernel patch, slightly modified in the x86 architecture case, providing additional abstraction and much lessened dependencies on the 'patched' operating system.
> 
> Adeos is a kernel patch comprising an Interrupt Pipeline where different Operating System Domains register interrupt handlers. This way, RTAI can transparently take over interrupts while leaving the processing of all others to Linux. Use of Adeos also frees RTAI from patent restrictions caused by RTLinux project.


I can't figure out if there are any benefits from this patch for regular apps, or if the patch is completely useless unless the software itself is modified to work with it, but it sounds like it might be the latter.

This document describes how to install RTAI 4.0 on a Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS using a 3.8.13 kernel, either 32bit or 64 bit version.

https://twiki.eurecom.fr/twiki/bin/view/OpenAirInterface/OpenAirKernel357Ubuntu1204x86Setups


----------



## deepor

It is only something for applications and drivers that use it. "Real-time" basically just means that it's possible to write a piece of code where it's guaranteed that it won't be interrupted while it runs. Like, there can only be one single real-time task running on a core, multi-tasking is disabled while it runs. That's used for example in the software that's running on the controllers for machines.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It is only something for applications and drivers that use it. "Real-time" basically just means that it's possible to write a piece of code where it's guaranteed that it won't be interrupted while it runs. Like, there can only be one single real-time task running on a core, multi-tasking is disabled while it runs. That's used for example in the software that's running on the controllers for machines.


Yea, I know, and in their description, it alludes to requiring the software to support it, but there isn't much documentation on it, so was wondering if it changed any global variables in a beneficial way as a side effect.

It's other use might be examining the changes it does in order to create a custom distribution. It seems insane to me that with all of Linux' customization options, people are playing million dollar CS and DOTA tournaments on Windows.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It's other use might be examining the changes it does in order to create a custom distribution. It seems insane to me that with all of Linux' customization options, people are playing million dollar CS and DOTA tournaments on Windows.


Yeah, you're kind of right. But time and time again you see pros playing with sub-par peripherals, on non-optimized OS's with a bunch of crap installed and running, and sometimes even streaming on top of that, lol. If you ask me, what makes a pro a pro is that they invested more time and effort into the game than 95% of people. But there are other factors, ofc...


----------



## r0ach

Starting to make some progress with Linux gaming. Things of importance I've discovered for Linux gaming so far:

1) There is no reason you should be using the CFS scheduler that's in the default Linux kernel, as it's a bloated scheduler for server use to scale to a million cores. The BFS scheduler is much simpler, responsive, and better for desktop/workstation environments. This means if you want to use an existing distribution, you're limited to: Manjaro (Arch derivative), PCLinuxOS (Mandrake/Mandriva fork), or Zenwalk (Slackware derivative). Or you can build your own using the CKOlivas BFS patch.

2) Need to have CONFIG_1000_HZ=y when building kernel

3) Need to have preempt=y when building kernel

Quote:


> This option reduces the latency of the kernel by making all kernel code (that is not executing in a critical section) preemptible. This allows reaction to interactive events by permitting a low priority process to be preempted involuntarily even if it is in kernel mode executing a system call and would otherwise not be about to reach a natural preemption point. This allows applications to run more 'smoothly' even when the system is under load, at the cost of slightly lower throughput and a slight runtime overhead to kernel code.
> 
> Select this if you are building a kernel for a desktop or embedded system with latency requirements in the milliseconds range.


It appears *some* but not all of the preempt patch was applied to the Linux kernel. I don't know if you will benefit from adding the preempt patch on top of this: Here's the descripton on adding that:
Quote:


> The 2.6 Linux kernel has an additional configuration option, CONFIG_PREEMPT, which causes all kernel code outside of spinlock-protected regions and interrupt handlers to be eligible for non-voluntary preemption by higher priority kernel threads. With this option, worst case latency drops to (around) single digit milliseconds, although some device drivers can have interrupt handlers that will introduce latency much worse than that. If a real-time Linux application requires latencies smaller than single-digit milliseconds, use of the CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT patch is highly recommended.


4) Disable dynamic ticks (CONFIG_NO_HZ needs to be OFF) - Dynamic ticks is like a power saving feature and changes your timer resolution to crap and will also probably introduce skew/drift if using TSC. I also discovered this is in Windows 8.1 and can be turned off with:

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

But I haven't tested it yet

5) Ubuntu actually has some low latency builds to download already, but I'm not sure what exactly is changed in them besides preemption being turned on. Not sure if it has BFS scheduler or 1000hz timer and Dynamic ticks off. If it has all that stuff, it would be a good one to try I guess.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel

I believe these are the biggest issues with Linux response, but I'm sure I'll discover more.

6) Other changes

CPU Frequency scaling - off

High Resolution Timer Support - If you're already forcing HPET off in BIOS, I'm not sure if this setting will have any effect in the Linux OS or not, but wouldn't hurt turning it off if you're not using it

Power management: Disable APM (CONFIG_APM=n)

ACPI - Make sure ACPI power management is on

7) From the Arch Linux FAQ: If you truly want a slim system, we suggest you go your own way and deploy one with static /devs. You should, however, set your CPU architecture. Selecting "Core 2 Duo" for appropriate hardware will allow for a good deal of optimisation, but not so much as you go down the scale.

8) SteamOS currently does have preemption turned on, but doesn't use BFS scheduler, and also uses default 300hz timer instead of 1000, so it's pretty much not a gaming OS.


----------



## Trull

Good to see that you're taking Linux seriously. 'Tis exciting!


----------



## r0ach

For Linux desktop environments, I think KDE or Openbox is going to be the winner, I need to do some more testing.


----------



## qsxcv

kde... you've got to be kidding me right

openbox is a window manager no a desktop environment


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> kde... you've got to be kidding me right
> 
> openbox is a window manager no a desktop environment


It sounds strange, but KDE, a composited UI, seems to win in a few benches in full screen games over super light weight UI's that I don't even think are composited like LXDE. In full screen mode, KDE supposedly turns off all compositing and renders directly, so what exactly are the light weight ones doing to make them lose?

I'm currently in the process of testing:

Manjaro XFCE
Manjaro KDE
Xubuntu
Lubuntu
Kubuntu KDE 4
Kubuntu Plasma 5


----------



## HAGGARD

I've tried CS:GO with different Linux distros and while there hardly is enough software to properly evaluate gaming performance that I am aware of (evhz being less precise than mouserate or MouseTester, no FRAPS, no DPC monitoring), it definitely feels on par with Windows. OGL API and minimalistic NVIDIA drivers might even come with a bit more snappiness, UI rendering is not flash-based IIRC, which is a huge plus. In general there's less driver and overall bloat or at least increased possibilities of debloating your install. Adjusting polling rates is easy even with old mice.

On the other hand I won't be switching to Linux as my main gaming OS anytime soon. Configurability of NVIDIA is very limited (custom refresh rates are a pain to achieve, scaling is a questionmark), "fullscreen" mode in Linux is not "true" fullscreen mode and while I won't make assumptions as to what that means for task prioritizing or input handling, it does mean that the monitor scales to the desktop resolution rather than the in-game resolution. I. e. "-freq" launch parameter doesn't work; you have to set your desktop resolution and refresh rate to the one you want to use in-game.
Sensitivity works differently. While yaw/pitch are the same, real sensitivity is exactly double of what you'd expect. Might has to do with Linux pointer settings (2x count to pixel ratio). m_rawinput is not yet supported in Linux.

The extensively more modifiable nature of Linux does come with some advantages, but ultimately it has no strict upside over Windows and then various downsides.


----------



## qsxcv

compositing on X is an ugly mess (which is the reason for the wayland project)

which benches show kde winning? the thing with linux and the associated open source software is that there isn't any mysterious magic involved generally. IF kde does something unique that increases its fullscreen performance over that from a lightweight noncompositing window manager (e.g. tiling window managers like dwm, xmonad, awesome,...) , it's for sure possible to replicate the behavior in the lighter window managers.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> "fullscreen" mode in Linux is not "true" fullscreen mode


I'm not sure if you've used Win 8.1 a lot, but unlike with Win 7, when you launch a "full screen" game in Win 8.1, it inherits the desktop refresh rate instead of going to 60hz, and doesn't drop color profile either. So is Win 8.1 even using a real full screen mode, because it doesn't seem like it. There is also no change in mouse response between Win 8.1 desktop and a full screen game. With Win 7, a full screen game has higher input lag than just using borderless window mode.

Anyway, being locked into Steam kinda sucks, but I guess this is probably the best solution. Log in with Steam and then it doesn't load a desktop environment at all. This is actually better than SteamOS itself currently. I talked to some guy working on SteamOS and he says it's not even using the low latency Linux kernel or BFS scheduler. So 300 hz timer instead of 1000 and no preemption.

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/12/better-steam-for-linux-performance-with.html

Funny post under this article:


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> With Win 7, a full screen game has higher input lag than just using borderless window mode.


uh no.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> uh no.


That's the way it is for me with a 570 GTX on Win 7. Borderless window mode was always more snappy and responsive mouse-wise.


----------



## agsz

[quote name="r0ach" url="/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/0_30#post_20976880"
7) *Intel Network Connections Ethernet Driver* - Don't install if your driver is already included in Win 8.1. If using Win7, then during the install screen, you want to uncheck "Proset" and "advanced teaming and VLAN" section.

The 19.3 driver also has huge problems on Z77 and maybe other boards. I would use an earlier version such as 19.0 instead. Version 19.3 + 19.5 causes constant 6000 DPC spikes and is probably the worst driver I've ever seen:


[/quote]
The closet version I could find is: 19.6.1 but the .rar file reads 'Intel_LAN_Win7-8-8-1_VER191510', so I assumed 19.1. I installed just the drivers, no advanced proset/vlan. Is there any other settings to modify other than the Power Management tab? Also, Samsung Magician's OS Optimization for Max Performance turns Window Search on, I disabled it in Services, but left it on in Windows Features to have the search bar on the bottom of the Start Menu.

Not sure if I posted/asked this question before, but; Any benefit from setting NVIDIA Video Cards to MSI Supported?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Not sure if I posted/asked this question before, but; Any benefit from setting NVIDIA Video Cards to MSI Supported?


To me, it seemed like default line based was better, but MSI seemed to give more consistent results irrepsective of what other BIOS or software changes you have done on your computer. It's a hard call to make. Line based if you want it to feel as "normal" as possible I guess.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> To me, it seemed like default line based was better, but MSI seemed to give more consistent results irrepsective of what other BIOS or software changes you have done on your computer. It's a hard call to make. Line based if you want it to feel as "normal" as possible I guess.


I consider myself extremely sensitive to setting changes, as I assume you are as well, and with MSI Supported set to '1', I felt like my game (CS:GO), ran smoother and input lag was non-existent. But as another user stated, I did notice some DPC Latency spikes. I'm inclined to test it again, as I just re-installed my Intel NIC drivers without the PROset & Advanced options.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> That's the way it is for me with a 570 GTX on Win 7. Borderless window mode was always more snappy and responsive mouse-wise.


i'm assuming you're talking about aero/compositing off.... if it's on, borderless window has the compositor's vsync-related input lag

for my gtx 460 i felt no difference.
for my gtx 970, fullscreen is less laggy


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for my gtx 970, fullscreen is less laggy


How do you explain that?

I personally see no reason to run fullscreen mode is borderless works as intended.


----------



## HAGGARD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I'm not sure if you've used Win 8.1 a lot, but unlike with Win 7, when you launch a "full screen" game in Win 8.1, it inherits the desktop refresh rate instead of going to 60hz, and doesn't drop color profile either. So is Win 8.1 even using a real full screen mode, because it doesn't seem like it. There is also no change in mouse response between Win 8.1 desktop and a full screen game. With Win 7, a full screen game has higher input lag than just using borderless window mode.


Fullscreen in 7 has no increased input lag. Fullscreen mode is exclusivity mode in Windows and so the application running in fullscreen mode and the associated tasks enjoy higher priority over hardware. In windowed modes the application succumbs to Windows explorer's control and that does come with compromised performance, at least in 7, even with disabled compositing DWM or AERO. I don't know about 8.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> Fullscreen in 7 has no increased input lag. Fullscreen mode is exclusivity mode in Windows and so the application running in fullscreen mode and the associated tasks enjoy higher priority over hardware. In windowed modes the application succumbs to Windows explorer's control and that does come with compromised performance, at least in 7, even with disabled compositing DWM or AERO. I don't know about 8.


That's hard to believe... where did you read that?


----------



## detto87

Why is that hard to believe? It makes perfect sense.


----------



## HAGGARD

Compromised performance I can see myself. Local server, no bots, de_dust2, fps_max 0; fullscreen = 800fps, windowed mode = 600-700fps.

As for fullscreen having exclusivity properties over certain hardware like GPU/monitor and higher task priorities, just google: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/304669/why-direct3d-application-performs-better-in-full-screen-mode, https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee417025%28v=vs.85%29.aspx.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> How do you explain that?


after fermi, nvidia did something ******ed with the non-fullscreen mode that apparently no one but myself noticed


----------



## r0ach

Just managed to brick a fresh Manjaro XFCE install by the simple act of turning off font aliasing and changing font to "clean". Now I get a grey screen every time I log in haha. Most of these Linux distributions are train wrecks. This one has some promise if I can figure out if it can be stable at all or not. Oh yea, and Soundblaster Z isn't supported even on newest kernel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HAGGARD*
> 
> Compromised performance I can see myself. Local server, no bots, de_dust2, fps_max 0; fullscreen = 800fps, windowed mode = 600-700fps.


Mouse is always faster for me in borderless mode on Win 7, been like that for years. Many of these Linux desktop environments turn off compositing when they detect borderless window mode, so I'm sure Windows does something to compensate as well. For me, borderless window mode + Win 8.1 full screen mode feel similar, while Win 7 full screen mode is laggier than both.

I didn't notice 970 was slower in borderless window mode on Win 7 when it first came out because I was using Win 8 then where it's not an issue. I did later try 970 in Win 7 and noticed it. Right now I'm trying to figure out if any of these Linux DEs are actually using full screen hardware acceleration so I can see if the problem is here. I need to test newest KDE Plasma 5 and Unity for that I guess.


----------



## qsxcv

so borderless windowed in win8 doesnt have vsync?


----------



## CookieBook

Bu borderless window doesn't allow for the game to adjust gamma.


----------



## r0ach

I've tried just about every Linux distro in the universe in the last few days. Everything from Arch, to Gentoo (which I already used in the past), to Manjaro, to Elementary OS, PCLinuxOS, all their desktop environments, anything you can think of. Pretty much everything that exists besides Ubuntu and Debian are too buggy or stuttery with poor UI/DE integration to use. I'm sure you can make a good Gentoo distro, but it's just not worth the effort when you could just try to strip down whatever you don't like in Ubuntu instead.

For now, I'm staying on Ubuntu + low latency preemption kernel. Not sure if it's going to end up better or worse than Windows mouse-wise. There's lots of little things to change in Linux all scattered around. I'll probably try to do a general Linux/Ubuntu guide soon, maybe with scripts to automate the stuff.

Manjaro was really a big let down for how many people claimed it was the best. Arch Linux in general pales in comparison to all the Debian/Ubuntu support out there. A lot of the distros that aren't Debian/Ubuntu, or that don't have tight Gnome 3 integration, all have a bunch of crispy looking text and ghetto stuff like that too, not to mention more screen tearing...even though they're composited.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> so borderless windowed in win8 doesnt have vsync?


Borderless window mode is more laggy in Win 8.1 than Full screen, while Win 7 is the exact opposite for me. So yea, borderless window mode probably has vsync on in Win 8.


----------



## qsxcv

depends on what you want really, but for me it's WAY easier to configure gentoo to what i want than to strip down ubuntu or some similar desktop-friendly distro


----------



## CookieBook

Any word on 700 series cards in Win7 fullscreen vs borderless windowed?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> [...]


Here's some more stuff that might be interesting:

If you look into /proc/interrupts with "cat /proc/interrupts", you'll get a list of devices and their interrupt lines. The numbers you see are showing how often the interrupts fired since boot. Those numbers show up as a table with a column for each of your CPUs. By default, all devices firing an interrupt will be serviced by CPU0 (the first one).

There's a tool/daemon named "irqbalance" that can reassign devices to be serviced by CPU1, CPU2, etc. When run as a daemon, irqbalance decides by itself what to do. Ubuntu likely already has it installed and running. You could try to think about if it might be possible to improve something by using it as a manual tool? I never tried.

I wonder if something about which CPU gets assigned to what device interrupt-line might have something to do with you saying that the mouse can feel different in Windows after doing things like restarting.

About the BFS scheduler, I had a crash very recently while running a backup. Looking around, there were occasionally people posting about crashes under heavy I/O in the past, and that fits with my crash while the backup was doing its thing. There might be a hard to find bug in BFS. I suppose CFS won't have that problem as it's used more and has more people working on it. You might want to give CFS a try after configuring the kernel somewhat similarly to what you're doing with BFS (I mean 1000 Hz, full preemption, dynamic ticks off).

About the "millions of cores" stuff... there's "NUMA" config options to improve behavior on machines with multiple CPU sockets. When those options are enabled, the performance on normal PCs goes down a bit, so it's recommended to disable those. I forgot the names of the options. There's a main one that controls all (or most) about the NUMA stuff.

About the power saving stuff... the Intel P-state driver for the CPU power saving can completely ignore what you're doing in the BIOS about C-states and EIST! I'm also unsure if disabling CPU frequency scaling in the kernel config does something to it. If you want things running at a fixed speed, you better double check. There's a tool named "i7z" that can show frequency and C-states in real-time.

I want C3/C6 states and I think there's no way for the CPU to get into those without a short trip through a 1600 MHz state. I gave up on the "disable frequency scaling" idea and just set things to "performance" instead. There's a tool named "cpupower" that might be interesting. Changes done through that won't get ignored by the P-state driver (unlike the BIOS settings).


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> About the BFS scheduler


I didn't notice a difference in BFS and CFS, but I was using different DEs at the time, and the DE has 10x more effect than the scheduler. I felt the same way with regular kernel vs low latency kernel. In other words, no changes are noticeable unless you run Openbox with no desktop environment, because desktop environment implementation is garbage in Linux. The cursor also feels like it's operating with lower granularity than Windows for some reason.

Another issue is that if you change system settings while using gnome, then boot to openbox instead, settings such as xinput, and others, will all change or revert back to default. Even the soundcard seems to change settings at random, so your sound may or may not still function. This means if SteamOS takes off, but they give you non-optimal factory settings, changing to gnome desktop to try and change the underlying OS, then going back to Steam will only work for some things and not others.

I'm done with Linux for now. It does everything the opposite of how things should be. Things that should be compartmentalized and function regardless of how you set up the system aren't, such as specific apps being locked to desktop environments, and things that shouldn't be compartmentalized are, such as even some Nvidia control panel settings only affecting one desktop environment and not being a system setting.

The only way Linux can be functional is if it comes out with a standardized, efficient, hardware accelerated desktop, that can then be skinned or modded to create the looks people want. Right now it's just a giant herd of people mindlessly wasting their time all working on different desktops that have no future. I don't see SteamOS being useful at all unless they fork away from all upstream changes like OSX, which means it might be a decent gaming system 1.5-2 years from now if they decided to do that today.

Made a post about Linux in the mouse section too: http://www.overclock.net/t/1548204/linux-the-clown-os


----------



## deepor

Dude! People will never fuse their groups up into one single group. You can forget about having just one desktop. It'll never happen. That "systemd" project which is growing and absorbing more and more tasks all the time might fix some of the stuff behind the scenes. You would then hopefully only have to learn how to configure that (like soundcard for example).

Perhaps one business might at some point try to sell PCs with their own environment instead of Windows (so like Apple basically). They could then use Linux stuff as their starting point. They wouldn't have to sell a lot to instantly be the number one desktop with regards to user base.

I don't think SteamOS is that business as it's just for the living room where things are very different. You are sitting far away from the screen on a couch and the input device is wireless and the TV probably processes and delays everything it displays. Their goals are probably just to try to keep latency in check and they care more about things appearing smooth on the TV like never terrible drops in framerates and no stutter in the animations. Those are goals where you might even intentionally introduce buffering and delays?


----------



## Madmaxneo

Is input lag really that big of a deal? With everything that I need to turn off for reduced lag it seems I would be loosing a lot more and only gaining a few milliseconds of decreased lag. There seems to be no real way to tell input lag unless you have a CRT monitor along with your normal gaming screen.

Major kudos to r0ach as he seems to know and understand quite a bit about this and is concerned enough to do some serious explaining, but what does it make a difference in? I have never noticed lag in any game I play (unless I am pushing beyond my system specs) and everything I do with my mouse or keyboard seems to happen instantaneously. The only "lag" I ever seem to experience is when I simply fail to act fast enough.

Please note it is not my intention to put anyone down but I am just trying to understand how milliseconds of input lag could make any kind of real difference.

If your playing a multiplayer game online there is a good chance most (if not all) of the people on your server are from some other state or continent. I would think the lag from distance would be more prevalent than the milliseconds of input lag.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madmaxneo*
> 
> Is input lag really that big of a deal? With everything that I need to turn off for reduced lag it seems I would be loosing a lot more and only gaining a few milliseconds of decreased lag. There seems to be no real way to tell input lag unless you have a CRT monitor along with your normal gaming screen.
> 
> Major kudos to r0ach as he seems to know and understand quite a bit about this and is concerned enough to do some serious explaining, but what does it make a difference in? I have never noticed lag in any game I play (unless I am pushing beyond my system specs) and everything I do with my mouse or keyboard seems to happen instantaneously. The only "lag" I ever seem to experience is when I simply fail to act fast enough.
> 
> Please note it is not my intention to put anyone down but I am just trying to understand how milliseconds of input lag could make any kind of real difference.
> 
> If your playing a multiplayer game online there is a good chance most (if not all) of the people on your server are from some other state or continent. I would think the lag from distance would be more prevalent than the milliseconds of input lag.


What does 1ms lag matter?, did you say 2ms? why not add another 3 ms

Oh this is just another 4 ms on top

This one is 8 ms, that one 10 ms, other one 12 ms

Suddenly you're very far behind.
Why not play on 10 fps while were at it?, i mean the picture still moves right

After just a few ms (imo 10~) youll be at a major disadvantage against an equal skilled player with the same network latency, kinda like having a race on a bicycle against a motorcycle

Some things in this post might be blown a little out of proportion to make the bottom line statement sink in


----------



## Madmaxneo

I see your point.

But, I don't see any effect on my system. I don't have a problem with lag and I am running windows 8.1 pro with a 4930k cpu off a X79 MB. I use USB 3.0 for a few things and I have not done any of the fixes to change any of the stuff it is recommended to change at the beginning of this thread and I don't see any lag.

If your saying this thread is more of a statement board to gather followers so developers don't get out of hand with this then I understand.

I currently play all my games at 60fps because my monitor doesn't support anything higher but I am getting the ASUS VG248QE monitor soon enough. That has a 144 hrz refresh rate and it has Gsync. I have heard nothing but good stuff about Gsync up until this thread.

I am not trying to troll I am just trying to understand.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madmaxneo*
> 
> Is input lag really that big of a deal? With everything that I need to turn off for reduced lag it seems I would be loosing a lot more and only gaining a few milliseconds of decreased lag. There seems to be no real way to tell input lag unless you have a CRT monitor along with your normal gaming screen.
> 
> Major kudos to r0ach as he seems to know and understand quite a bit about this and is concerned enough to do some serious explaining, but what does it make a difference in? I have never noticed lag in any game I play (unless I am pushing beyond my system specs) and everything I do with my mouse or keyboard seems to happen instantaneously. The only "lag" I ever seem to experience is when I simply fail to act fast enough.
> 
> Please note it is not my intention to put anyone down but I am just trying to understand how milliseconds of input lag could make any kind of real difference.
> 
> If your playing a multiplayer game online there is a good chance most (if not all) of the people on your server are from some other state or continent. I would think the lag from distance would be more prevalent than the milliseconds of input lag.


You know... first of all it's really all about your enjoyment. If you are happy with your stuff and everything appears to work correctly, isn't everything fine? This thread of r0ach here, he collected and shared a list of everything he ever thought might do weird stuff to his mouse "feel", and that's useful to look through. I liked experimenting with it, but I'm also not really feeling any difference with most stuff.

I feel you might be a bit mistaken about that "milliseconds of input lag" you are thinking about. On a normally working wired mouse using a 1000Hz or 500Hz connection, the sensor's readings will always get produced and received very close to when your actual hand movements happened, close to no delay there. Even a little input lag should be very noticeable and it's definitely never something like several milliseconds if the mouse feels fine. There's two people or so that tried to measure this with an actual hardware setup, and both got boring results, meaning 1-2ms delay, exactly what you'd expect from 1000Hz and 500Hz. The things here in this thread are really about something else, perhaps something like some sort of stutter when the measurements are taken (some delayed, some not)?

That's all just about the mouse movement coordinates themselves. Inside your games, there can be a lot of input lag from low FPS or the graphics card buffering stuff and then waiting on VSync etc. Those can produce dozens of milliseconds of input lag for looking around in a first-person-game. Everything about that, that's definitely something you have to look into!

But r0ach here actually says there's also differences in how the (hardware) mouse pointer itself moves around with some of the settings. You need to check that out and decide for yourself. I can't really feel anything about that, but sometimes I'm unsure, like I swear there's something more "fresh" about the mouse pointer on a Linux desktop compared to Windows (of course there's nothing wrong objectively, the mouse pointer appears to be perfectly tied to my hand movement, starts moving instantly).


----------



## Madmaxneo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You know... first of all it's really all about your enjoyment. If you are happy with your stuff and everything appears to work correctly, isn't everything fine? This thread of r0ach here, he collected and shared a list of everything he ever thought might do weird stuff to his mouse "feel", and that's useful to look through. I liked experimenting with it, but I'm also not really feeling any difference with most stuff.
> 
> I feel you might be a bit mistaken about that "milliseconds of input lag" you are thinking about. On a normally working wired mouse using a 1000Hz or 500Hz connection, the sensor's readings will always get produced and received very close to when your actual hand movements happened, close to no delay there. Even a little input lag should be very noticeable and it's definitely never something like several milliseconds if the mouse feels fine. There's two people or so that tried to measure this with an actual hardware setup, and both got boring results, meaning 1-2ms delay, exactly what you'd expect from 1000Hz and 500Hz. The things here in this thread are really about something else, perhaps something like some sort of stutter when the measurements are taken (some delayed, some not)?
> 
> That's all just about the mouse movement coordinates themselves. Inside your games, there can be a lot of input lag from low FPS or the graphics card buffering stuff and then waiting on VSync etc. Those can produce dozens of milliseconds of input lag for looking around in a first-person-game. Everything about that, that's definitely something you have to look into!
> 
> But r0ach here actually says there's also differences in how the (hardware) mouse pointer itself moves around with some of the settings. You need to check that out and decide for yourself. I can't really feel anything about that, but sometimes I'm unsure, like I swear there's something's more "fresh" about the mouse pointer on a Linux desktop compared to Windows (of course there's nothing wrong objectively, the mouse pointer appears to be perfectly tied to my hand movement, starts moving instantly).


That is what I was gathering but I wanted to ensure I was getting the right idea. This is still all good to know.

Thank you for your explanation!


----------



## Conditioned

It's also about your point of reference. If you are running a vanilla machine your senses just aren't very tuned to this stuff. I think someone in this thread wrote that he doesn't believe anyone can feel the difference between 500 and 1k hz. Most here would probably argue against that. When I had the DA 1800 dpi there was a bug in the firmware where it set from 1k to 500 hz. Took me days to figure out. Also the p55 chipset had uneven hz. So uneven in fact that it would greatly affect your performance in games. So it can be helpful to be sensitive to this stuff sometimes although mostly I don't think the difference is very big between a r0achtuned system or not.

Also I don't find I give up anything. I need to enable my print spooler manually when I want to print something. They keyboard that I have by my coach doesn't have a working volume slider. My usb doesn't transfer quite as fast. Neither of these things bother me much compared to how nice it is to have a very responsive system.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madmaxneo*
> 
> [...]
> 
> If your playing a multiplayer game online there is a good chance most (if not all) of the people on your server are from some other state or continent. I would think the lag from distance would be more prevalent than the milliseconds of input lag.


Network latency isn't comparable to input lag. Input lag always happens locally and isn't just affected by milliseconds: microseconds make a difference too, and also how the computer's hardware interacts with each other, interrupt and DPC latency, stability, etc. I'm not saying that network latency isn't important, or doesn't have it's peculiarities outside of raw latency, it's just that it's a different beast, and most of the time you can't do anything, or much at all, to improve it.

Individual perception matters too: when you get your 144Hz monitor you will see the difference immediately, and 60Hz won't be playable to you anymore, at least not for competitive multiplayer games. So the bottom line is that everything feels 'instant' until you know/have it better.


----------



## Madmaxneo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Network latency isn't comparable to input lag. Input lag always happens locally and isn't just affected by milliseconds: microseconds make a difference too, and also how the computer's hardware interacts with each other, interrupt and DPC latency, stability, etc. I'm not saying that network latency isn't important, or doesn't have it's peculiarities outside of raw latency, it's just that it's a different beast, and most of the time you can't do anything, or much at all, to improve it.
> 
> Individual perception matters too: when you get your 144Hz monitor you will see the difference immediately, and 60Hz won't be playable to you anymore, at least not for competitive multiplayer games. So the bottom line is that everything feels 'instant' until you know/have it better.


It was mentioned somewhere on this thread about the combination of network lag and the lag on their system. I can't find it right now but that was the point in my statement about network lag being more impactful.

I don't actually play many multiplayer games, one or two here and there. I was playing Titanfall for a bit but the action got so chaotic after awhile that the game lost its appeal for me. I really don't care for PVP, but prefer co-op for anything online. I really like games where people have to work together towards a goal, not try and slaughter each other for "braggiing" rights. The last games I really played online multiplayer extensively were Halo 2 (Xbox) and Quake 3 (PC). There was something about them that made them much more fun than the chaos of today's games. Maybe it's because there are way to many people at one time in a game that makes it so chaotic. Speaking of Quake 3, I installed it last year on my previous gaming machine and I had to turn the mouse sensitivity way down because the game was so quick and responsive that I could not get a good bead on anything.I hadn't played it in about 9 or 10 years and I realized that the real hard level was not for me anymore....lol.

I like RTS and RPG games, but usually never play multiplayer. I play Diablo 3 and am close to finishing the game but don't play multiplayer. I had a bad experience with Diablo 2 online multiplayer (people cheating and what not). I know the people running the servers have got a real good grip on the cheaters but there is still a few that find a way to cheat every now and then and it really ruins the game for me.

I remember a while back in the early 2000's having trouble with input lag, all I remember is it was really annoying. I don't remember what the cause of the issue was but I believe it had something to do with driver conflicts.


----------



## agsz

Would it be beneficial to disable Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5.1 in 'Windows Features', since normally .NET Framework 4.5.2 is installed with Windows Update?


----------



## agsz

Decided to install LatencyMon and let it run while I walked my dog, the results aren't good, yet DPC Latency Checker everything seems fine.. I took a screenshot of each tab: http://imgur.com/a/lQg9g


----------



## deepor

Try forcing the graphics card slot to PCI-E 2.0 in the BIOS if the card is currently running in PCI-E 3.0.


----------



## jtl999

I've had zero DPC latency issues with AMD cards.

What driver?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Try forcing the graphics card slot to PCI-E 2.0 in the BIOS if the card is currently running in PCI-E 3.0.


By setting to Gen 2? I had it previously in my 2nd slot which caused it to run at 3.0 @ 8x and I felt like my game ran smoother that way. In DPC Latency Checker my latency is 25-50us though. So one program reports issues while the other doesn't.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> By setting to Gen 2? I had it previously in my 2nd slot which caused it to run at 3.0 @ 8x and I felt like my game ran smoother that way. In DPC Latency Checker my latency is 25-50us though. So one program reports issues while the other doesn't.


Yup, I mean setting PEG to Gen2 instead of leaving it on Auto or Gen3. I have seen weird stutter issues with Gen3 first hand and I know of one other person that has the same, so that's why I suggested to try this.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Yup, I mean setting PEG to Gen2 instead of leaving it on Auto or Gen3. I have seen weird stutter issues with Gen3 first hand and I know of one other person that has the same, so that's why I suggested to try this.


Tried it, didn't change anything in Latency Mon. Also tried updating my NVIDIA Drivers from 337.88 » 344.11, and setting it to MSI mode. I took screenshots of each tab in LatencyMon, hoping it would provide more insight. Using DPC Latency Checker, I only had a few spikes when opening Steam/ESEA Client/Google Chrome, but no where near the latency that LatencyMon reports. Source:


----------



## TK421

Can @r0ach pitch in on monitoring and overlay software such as HWinfo, msi overlay, rainmeter etc?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Yup, I mean setting PEG to Gen2 instead of leaving it on Auto or Gen3. I have seen weird stutter issues with Gen3 first hand and I know of one other person that has the same, so that's why I suggested to try this.


The Asus Z77 seems to downgrade the 3rd PCIE GPU slot to 1x when not in use in order to free PCIE bandwidth for USB 3 + SATA 6 and other stuff, so maybe it's just poor bandwidth allocation on some boards where they can't handle PCIE 3.0 16x GPU + Sata 6 + USB 3 all active.

I hope Skylake USB 3 isn't as bad as USB 3 right now, because current gen boards are pretty sloppy in implementation.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The Asus Z77 seems to downgrade the 3rd PCIE GPU slot to 1x when not in use in order to free PCIE bandwidth for USB 3 + SATA 6 and other stuff, so maybe it's just poor bandwidth allocation on some boards where they can't handle PCIE 3.0 16x GPU + Sata 6 + USB 3 all active.
> 
> I hope Skylake USB 3 isn't as bad as USB 3 right now, because current gen boards are pretty sloppy in implementation.


Y u ignore me :v


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Tried it, didn't change anything in Latency Mon. Also tried updating my NVIDIA Drivers from 337.88 » 344.11, and setting it to MSI mode. I took screenshots of each tab in LatencyMon, hoping it would provide more insight. Using DPC Latency Checker, I only had a few spikes when opening Steam/ESEA Client/Google Chrome, but no where near the latency that LatencyMon reports. Source:


Don't enable MSI for graphics card , at least not for nvidoa . it screwing 3D mode and causing weird issues.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Don't enable MSI for graphics card , at least not for nvidoa . it screwing 3D mode and causing weird issues.


Another user reported DPC Latency spikes, so I assume if NVIDIA cards were made to run in MSI, they'd be enabled by default.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Another user reported DPC Latency spikes, so I assume if NVIDIA cards were made to run in MSI, they'd be enabled by default.


so here is the weird thing .. my laptop asus G751JT has 970 and it has MSI enabled by default from driver. Radeon card seem to enabled for desktop and mobile . nvidia at least from what I saw the 9xx desktop no , mobile yes . if someone could test 3D mode like I did we'll see if this effect the same. just think in 3D even without a game, a 3D movie with powerdvd , it causing the mouse to move like 4000ms delay. and the quality is degraded a bit, maybe a placebo about the quality thought.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> so here is the weird thing .. my laptop asus G751JT has 970 and it has MSI enabled by default from driver. Radeon card seem to enabled for desktop and mobile . nvidia at least from what I saw the 9xx desktop no , mobile yes . if someone could test 3D mode like I did we'll see if this effect the same. just think in 3D even without a game, a 3D movie with powerdvd , it causing the mouse to move like 4000ms delay. and the quality is degraded a bit, maybe a placebo about the quality thought.


That's odd. I think NVIDIA mobile cards have powermizer as well? On a side note; I think Steam Overlay can negatively affect performance in games.


----------



## agsz

When I run Latency Monitor, it's normally latmon.exe, svchost.exe, and taskhost.exe causing the Hard Pagefaults. According to DPC Latency Checker, my system is fine. I'm convinced CS:GO just runs like crap, since that's the only game I play and use that to tell if my system is running weird. Note: Stock speeds, only thing I've changed in BIOS is DRAM Frequency to 1866MHz for my RAM.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> When I run Latency Monitor, it's normally latmon.exe, svchost.exe, and taskhost.exe causing the Hard Pagefaults. According to DPC Latency Checker, my system is fine. I'm convinced CS:GO just runs like crap, since that's the only game I play and use that to tell if my system is running weird. Note: Stock speeds, only thing I've changed in BIOS is DRAM Frequency to 1866MHz for my RAM.


Hard page faults are nothing bad. It's the technical name for something about a certain way of accessing files.



Spoiler: technical background



Programs can tell Windows "hey... for this piece of memory over here, please make it so I can see the contents of file xyz in there". That's called "memory mapping" a file. Instead of loading that file from disk immediately, Windows instead just puts certain hints into the CPU's "page table". When the program later tries to read from that piece of memory, the CPU runs into that "hard page fault", the program is stopped and Windows takes over, loads the right piece of the file from the disk, then lets the program continue.



Did you try the PCI-E Gen2 suggestion? Your 2000 microseconds in LatencyMon for the NVIDIA driver really weren't normal. I guess it might be okay if it happens when a game is loading a level/map or something, but I don't think anything like that was the case when you took the screenshot? I have screenshots here where I've been playing a game for 40 minutes and DPC latency for the NVIDIA driver was completely fine at the end.

For avoiding measuring the level loading, after that's done and you are inside the game playing, just alt-tab out of the game and into latencymon, then stop+restart its recording, then go back in the game and play, then go alt-tab out to latencymon before running into the next loading screen.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Hard page faults are nothing bad. It's the technical name for something about a certain way of accessing files.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: technical background
> 
> 
> 
> Programs can tell Windows "hey... for this piece of memory over here, please make it so I can see the contents of file xyz in there". That's called "memory mapping" a file. Instead of loading that file from disk immediately, Windows instead just puts certain hints into the CPU's "page table". When the program later tries to read from that piece of memory, the CPU runs into that "hard page fault", the program is stopped and Windows takes over, loads the right piece of the file from the disk, then lets the program continue.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you try the PCI-E Gen2 suggestion? Your 2000 microseconds in LatencyMon for the NVIDIA driver really weren't normal. I guess it might be okay if it happens when a game is loading a level/map or something, but I don't think anything like that was the case when you took the screenshot? I have screenshots here where I've been playing a game for 40 minutes and DPC latency for the NVIDIA driver was completely fine at the end.
> 
> For avoiding measuring the level loading, after that's done and you are inside the game playing, just alt-tab out of the game and into latencymon, then stop+restart its recording, then go back in the game and play, then go alt-tab out to latencymon before running into the next loading screen.


I've honestly never ran it while playing a game. But I did a clean install of the NVIDIA drivers and it seemed to have changed. I'll run LatencyMon again, how long do you recommend I run it for?


----------



## agsz

@deepor here's one I just ran, I tried to include all tabs using MS Paint


----------



## deepor

I think that looks fine overall. Those 0.326 ms as "highest" for the Nvidia driver seems a bit suspicious, as if it should be possible to have it lower, but the average is fine. For the average time in your screenshot, I calculated 120.57 ms divided by 10199 events results in 0.012 ms.

I looked around and searched for an old screenshot and found one where it's 0.004 ms for me. It ran for 42 minutes, had 12930 ms total and 3598078 events. This was while a game was running, so the CPU was always at full speed, never clocked down to 1600 MHz for power saving. If you measured your stuff at 1600 MHz on the desktop, things would fit perfectly: my 0.004 ms multiplied by three is your 0.012 ms, and 1600 MHz times three is 4800 MHz.

So I guess your screenshot might be as good as things can be if you were measuring with power saving on the desktop? Try to measure while a game is running!


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I think that looks fine overall. Those 0.326 ms as "highest" for the Nvidia driver seems a bit suspicious, as if it should be possible to have it lower, but the average is fine. For the average time in your screenshot, I calculated 120.57 ms divided by 10199 events results in 0.012 ms.
> 
> I looked around and searched for an old screenshot and found one where it's 0.004 ms for me. It ran for 42 minutes, had 12930 ms total and 3598078 events. This was while a game was running, so the CPU was always at full speed, never clocked down to 1600 MHz for power saving. If you measured your stuff at 1600 MHz on the desktop, things would fit perfectly: my 0.004 ms multiplied by three is your 0.012 ms, and 1600 MHz times three is 4800 MHz.
> 
> So I guess your screenshot might be as good as things can be if you were measuring with power saving on the desktop? Try to measure while a game is running!


Hmm what do you mean by Power Saving? I have EPU Power Saving set to 'Off' in the BIOS, and my Power Options in Windows are set to High Performance.

edit: I'm using NVIDIA 337.88 WHQL Drivers. Would you recommend trying a newer/older driver to see if those numbers drop? Personally I've felt like 335.23 were the best drivers, as I've installed them a few weeks ago, but noticed a weird acceleration in my mouse speed.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Hmm what do you mean by Power Saving? I have EPU Power Saving set to 'Off' in the BIOS, and my Power Options in Windows are set to High Performance.
> 
> edit: I'm using NVIDIA 337.88 WHQL Drivers. Would you recommend trying a newer/older driver to see if those numbers drop? Personally I've felt like 335.23 were the best drivers, as I've installed them a few weeks ago, but noticed a weird acceleration in my mouse speed.


I meant the "C-states" of the CPU, not that "EPU power saving" stuff which is something special just for your board?

Basically, when you see for example 5% CPU usage in the Task Manager, that means the CPU is off for 95% of the time! It wakes up when you move the mouse etc., then falls asleep again. That's how it is on the desktop when just using a web browser or something.

While a game is running, the usage is 100% for at least one core. That keeps most parts of the CPU awake, keeps the voltage up. Measurements in LatencyMon will be different than what you see on the desktop.



Spoiler: blah blah blah



This is how I understood how things work:

When you look at the Task Manager and you see for example 8% load on one of your cores, that number means that for the last few moments, the core was 8% of the time working on something and 92% of the time it was out of work. When the C-states are enabled, for those 92% without work, the core will be asleep and power will be cut.

If all cores are asleep at the same time, some extra stuff gets powered down. Now, when all cores are asleep and one of them is woken up to work on something, for example that interrupt from the NVIDIA driver, the CPU first starts working at 1600 MHz for a short moment until it sees that voltage is back to full.

If there's not much to do, it might manage to finish its job fast enough to go back to sleep without ever leaving that 1600 MHz zone. The measurements in LatencyMon will be three times higher than what they would be at 4800 MHz (I actually tested exactly those numbers and it works out).

When at least one core is running at 100%, the CPU will never drop speed to 1600 MHz. This means that when one of the other cores are woken up for a job, those can start at full speed. A game usually always has one core working on something so things will run at full speed all the time while gaming. When you measure stuff while a game runs, the numbers in LatencyMon should then be a lot lower.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I meant the "C-states" of the CPU, not that "EPU power saving" stuff which is something special just for your board?
> 
> Basically, when you see for example 5% CPU usage in the Task Manager, that means the CPU is off for 95% of the time! It wakes up when you move the mouse etc., then falls asleep again. That's how it is on the desktop when just using a web browser or something.
> 
> While a game is running, the usage is 100% for at least one core. That keeps most parts of the CPU awake, keeps the voltage up. Measurements in LatencyMon will be different than what you see on the desktop.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: blah blah blah
> 
> 
> 
> This is how I understood how things work:
> 
> When you look at the Task Manager and you see for example 8% load on one of your cores, that number means that for the last few moments, the core was 8% of the time working on something and 92% of the time it was out of work. When the C-states are enabled, for those 92% without work, the core will be asleep and power will be cut.
> 
> If all cores are asleep at the same time, some extra stuff gets powered down. Now, when all cores are asleep and one of them is woken up to work on something, for example that interrupt from the NVIDIA driver, the CPU first starts working at 1600 MHz for a short moment until it sees that voltage is back to full.
> 
> If there's not much to do, it might manage to finish its job fast enough to go back to sleep without ever leaving that 1600 MHz zone. The measurements in LatencyMon will be three times higher than what they would be at 4800 MHz (I actually tested exactly those numbers and it works out).
> 
> When at least one core is running at 100%, the CPU will never drop speed to 1600 MHz. This means that when one of the other cores are woken up for a job, those can start at full speed. A game usually always has one core working on something so things will run at full speed all the time while gaming. When you measure stuff while a game runs, the numbers in LatencyMon should then be a lot lower.


I think EPU Power Saving Mode is for ASUS boards, my previous mobo had it as well. If I understand correctly, when the CPU is off, that's Intel SpeedStep doing that, correct?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I think EPU Power Saving Mode is for ASUS boards, my previous mobo had it as well. If I understand correctly, when the CPU is off, that's Intel SpeedStep doing that, correct?


Intel SpeedStep is a feature that allows Windows to have control over the CPU speed. I think Windows only uses it with the "balanced" power profile instead of the "high performance" one, so it's not terribly interesting for you. The way it works is, Windows will try to find the lowest speed where CPU usage still stays below 20% or something. Like, when it notices there's 40% usage with a slow 1600MHz speed, it increases speed to perhaps 3200MHz, and usage is then down to 20% because the cores are now twice as fast.

The C-states stuff is about the "off" time. It is something automatic. The CPU does it by itself.

The C1E thingy will do things to the voltage (if you don't overclock using fixed voltage) and will make the CPU run at 1600 MHz for a bit before going to sleep and after waking up. The voltage and speed comes back very fast after waking up and it seems there's not that much of 1600MHz business going on, and that's why that separate SpeedStep feature is also there so Windows can help with the power saving.

The C3/C6 states are what's saving most of the power. When the CPU is asleep, it can cut power to parts of it.

I couldn't really decide what's best for me. I just have the SpeedStep stuff off. I don't like that the CPU temperature at the desktop goes up a lot with the C-state stuff disabled. I keep C-state settings enabled because of that.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Intel SpeedStep is a feature that allows Windows to have control over the CPU speed. I think Windows only uses it with the "balanced" power profile instead of the "high performance" one, so it's not terribly interesting for you. The way it works is, Windows will try to find the lowest speed where CPU usage still stays below 20% or something. Like, when it notices there's 40% usage with a slow 1600MHz speed, it increases speed to perhaps 3200MHz, and usage is then down to 20% because the cores are now twice as fast.
> 
> The C-states stuff is about the "off" time. It is something automatic. The CPU does it by itself.
> 
> The C1E thingy will do things to the voltage (if you don't overclock using fixed voltage) and will make the CPU run at 1600 MHz for a bit before going to sleep and after waking up. The voltage and speed comes back very fast after waking up and it seems there's not that much of 1600MHz business going on, and that's why that separate SpeedStep feature is also there so Windows can help with the power saving.
> 
> The C3/C6 states are what's saving most of the power. When the CPU is asleep, it can cut power to parts of it.
> 
> I couldn't really decide what's best for me. I just have the SpeedStep stuff off. I don't like that the CPU temperature at the desktop goes up a lot with the C-state stuff disabled. I keep C-state settings enabled because of that.


Disabling C-States & Speedstep normally go hand in hand right? I ran Latency Monitor again while I took my dog for a walk, came back and opened up Google Chrome and had a stream open for a few minutes before I realized the test was still running. Doesn't look good


----------



## deepor

I guess you should try that older nvidia driver version you mentioned earlier.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I guess you should try that older nvidia driver version you mentioned earlier.


I mean, I haven't had any negative effects on CS:GO, just one time I had to reboot my PC due to choppiness, probably caused by a memory leak from ESEA Client and/or CS:GO. Sometimes I run LatencyMon, and everything's fine, than other times it's like the image I posted above. I'm really not sure how to specify that this particular driver is causing me issues









Edit: The older one I was talking about , 335.23 which came out a month or so before 337.88 I believe, makes it feel like I have mouse acceleration on. I'm 99.9% sure it's not placebo, it feels way too fast, but does the same slightly less than 270° turn when swiping left to right.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> That's odd. I think NVIDIA mobile cards have powermizer as well? On a side note; I think Steam Overlay can negatively affect performance in games.


this laptop doesnt have powermizer .


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I guess you should try that older nvidia driver version you mentioned earlier.


Installed newer drivers, 344.11, which a few people in this thread approved. I noticed in the Drivers tab, that 'Highest Execution' for the NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, doubled to .6 from .32 with the older drivers (337.88). I ran this test as I ran to the store, for roughly 15 minutes, with just Steam open I believe.


----------



## altf4

Hi guys so I installed 8.1 to test it out on my rig and see how it goes, but i'm little bit confused because I have no option to select scaling to display it's only GPU

any suggestions?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Hi guys so I installed 8.1 to test it out on my rig and see how it goes, but i'm little bit confused because I have no option to select scaling to display it's only GPU
> 
> any suggestions?


it's laptop ? then I don't think it's matter . laptops works differently. in anyway write your rig details , how can we know .


----------



## altf4

No it's not laptop obviously, I've never seen a laptop 144hz lol.
Anyway my specs: GTX 780/BENQ XL2411Z, XEON 1241v3, ASROCK H97 Performance. And I didn't mention that I had display scaling option on windows 7 it was working fine.


----------



## x7007

My guess then windows 8 has different scaling options and the driver does the scaling only for the windows will do its own. windows does display scaling. so the drivers know it .


----------



## altf4

Well r0ach posted the 22 step Windows 8.1 install guide, and it's says that it should be a option to select display scaling, i don't know why i don't have that's the problem.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Well r0ach posted the 22 step Windows 8.1 install guide, and it's says that it should be a option to select display scaling, i don't know why i don't have that's the problem.


Edit: Didn't see your previous post regarding your system being a laptop. That's odd, hopefully r0ach can shed some light.


----------



## agsz

@deepor I uninstalled nvidia drivers to install the newer ones, ran LatencyMon with no NVIDIA drivers installed, and it stayed extremely low. I guess I could try using MSI mode with the newer drivers see if it helps at all? meh.


----------



## Hawawaa

Thanks for the tips, I'm slowly getting my latency better and lowering input lag. Also found out with Latency Checker that corsair link was causing big problem on my latency. I went from 4000 to 1000. Now let see if I can improve it some more.


----------



## Hawawaa

Ok I'm in the 900s and every 12 or so bars I hit 12 in dpclat... Something being a ***** and needs to go. Removed Roccat drivers (god thanks for making me feel ******ed on my purchases but worth it). I guess I'll have to ask you about my sound card and monitor purchases coming up but thats for later.







Hunt continues...


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hawawaa*
> 
> Ok I'm in the 900s and every 12 or so bars I hit 12 in dpclat... Something being a ***** and needs to go. Removed Roccat drivers (god thanks for making me feel ******ed on my purchases but worth it). I guess I'll have to ask you about my sound card and monitor purchases coming up but thats for later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hunt continues...


Just disable anything you dont use all the time

ANYTHING.

And disable said things in BIOS/UEFI too.

Also, you want to use Latencymon over dpclat, since it can actually show you which program is the offending one, usually.


----------



## deepor

"DPC Latency Checker" does not work in Windows 8 and 8.1. It shows completely wrong results. You need to use a different program named "LatencyMon". After you got LatencyMon, you also might need to change the setting "general latency measuring method" in its options window for Windows 8.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Just disable anything you dont use all the time
> 
> ANYTHING.
> 
> And disable said things in BIOS/UEFI too.
> 
> Also, you want to use Latencymon over dpclat, since it can actually show you which program is the offending one, usually.


I find that latencymon doesn't do a very good job at finding out what causes the problem, or maybe more accurately it's a very thick grained tool. Heres a better more faingrained version:

Step 1) Download and install the Microsoft "xperf" tool. It's in the [Windows Performance Toolkit]. It's small, just a few megabytes. This tool will tell you what actually caused the spike you see in dpclat.

Step 2) Run the xperf tool to start watching what's causing the spikes. Open a command line console, and then type:

xperf -on Latency

Step 3) Allow the xperf tool to collect information for 5 minutes while you use your computer. After you feel you did a little monitoring, then stop it. Type:

xperf -stop

This creates a C:\kernel.etl file which is a log of the DPC's and ISR's taking place during that timeframe.

Step 4) Create a report file so you can see where the spikes came from. Type:

xperf -I \kernel.etl -symbols verbose -a dpcisr > latency_report.txt

This will create a report file called latency_report.txt in whatever folder you're in.

Now, you need to interpret this file. It shows you a list of the maximum latencies produced by each driver. A DPC of 512 means one of your drivers/devices was blocking all processing on your system for 512us. All you have to do is find the one that says "512" on it.


----------



## Conditioned

Ps. When using 344.16 it consistenly swaps the 'no scaling' option to something else, resulting in a required reinstall. This doesn't seemt o happen with 344.11 (knock on wood). Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## Hawawaa

xperf keeps closing immediately on me. Tried running as administrator, allowed full access in security tab, and tried compatibility modes too but no dice. Any ideas?

Wait this is cmd line stuff isnt it...


----------



## Hawawaa

Ok let me update with some pictures.









I get that error message at the end of xperf, I launched cmd as admin and entered in the stuff so I don't know why its not working.

I did everything except, java, flash, hyperthreading, (never found c3/c6 and 1394 controller), haven't overclocked yet... ah ya. That's all I got.


----------



## agsz

NVIDIA 350.05 - Is this a beta driver? Apparently fixed a lot of issues people were having in CS:GO.


----------



## kurtextrem

No, it's a "hotfix" driver. Not WHQL, but fixes stuff. Also, it has a newer branch than the latest WHQL driver... and as you said, it seems to give higher fps and so on.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> No, it's a "hotfix" driver. Not WHQL, but fixes stuff. Also, it has a newer branch than the latest WHQL driver... and as you said, it seems to give higher fps and so on.


Honestly, I noticed zero difference whatsoever from 344.11


----------



## agsz

Thoughts on unparking cores on an i7-4790k?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Thoughts on unparking cores on an i7-4790k?


if using win 8 no need. only for win 7 and yes unpark for 7


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> if using win 8 no need. only for win 7 and yes unpark for 7


Just did it and my game feels 10x more responsive, as if I had tons of input lag prior, but didn't have that feeling on my i5 4670k


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Just did it and my game feels 10x more responsive, as if I had tons of input lag prior, but didn't have that feeling on my i5 4670k


win 7 or win 8 . what program did you use?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> win 7 or win 8 . what program did you use?


Win 7 Ultimate ~ Unpark CPU App from coderbag.com (seems to be the most common one). Going to try enabling XMP later today to see if it runs smoothly together. XMP in the past made CS:GO run weird.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Win 7 Ultimate ~ Unpark CPU App from coderbag.com (seems to be the most common one). Going to try enabling XMP later today to see if it runs smoothly together. XMP in the past made CS:GO run weird.


Might I ask what unparking cores is? I thought this was something that the OS handles as needed, are you basically forcing cores to unpark?

Does it really matter if a game does not use all cores anyhow?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> Might I ask what unparking cores is? I thought this was something that the OS handles as needed, are you basically forcing cores to unpark?
> 
> Does it really matter if a game does not use all cores anyhow?


it is like saving-mode for unused processing cores which adds delay and latency and other weird issues if not unparking it.

it's like 4 cars driving and 3 are parking, 1 is still driving, then if you do something the parking cars start driving again, it just add delay like from the start.

It's not about gaming, it's about what happens when the System does need to use the parked core, and how long it takes to use it.

Windows 8/8.1 is not parking anyway, so why windows 7 would , that's how best to see it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Win 7 Ultimate ~ Unpark CPU App from coderbag.com (seems to be the most common one). Going to try enabling XMP later today to see if it runs smoothly together. XMP in the past made CS:GO run weird.


XMP is the best thing to use if you are not "Memory Timing Expert Fan Tech" (MTEFT) you need to know the timing needs for the Mhz you are using, it's impossible to do them without fail and 500 hrs of testing over and over again. XMP doesn't it automatically and always the best way.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> it is like saving-mode for unused processing cores which adds delay and latency and other weird issues if not unparking it.
> 
> it's like 4 cars driving and 3 are parking, 1 is still driving, then if you do something the parking cars start driving again, it just add delay like from the start.
> 
> It's not about gaming, it's about what happens when the System does need to use the parked core, and how long it takes to use it.


Is there a possibility of a negative impact on performance?

Gaming was just an example







easiest thing for me to relate to at the moment. Haven't done any other intense work on a pc in quite some time.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> it is like saving-mode for unused processing cores which adds delay and latency and other weird issues if not unparking it.
> 
> it's like 4 cars driving and 3 are parking, 1 is still driving, then if you do something the parking cars start driving again, it just add delay like from the start.
> 
> It's not about gaming, it's about what happens when the System does need to use the parked core, and how long it takes to use it.
> 
> Windows 8/8.1 is not parking anyway, so why windows 7 would , that's how best to see it.
> XMP is the best thing to use if you are not "Memory Timing Expert Fan Tech" (MTEFT) you need to know the timing needs for the Mhz you are using, it's impossible to do them without fail and 500 hrs of testing over and over again. XMP doesn't it automatically and always the best way.


I manually set my DRAM Frequency to 1866MHz and my timings set to 9-10-9-28 @ 1.5v which are my xmp specs. So I've been under the assumption that manually changing your DRAM frequency, your timings/voltage/command rate adjust automatically.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I manually set my DRAM Frequency to 1866MHz and my timings set to 9-10-9-28 @ 1.5v which are my xmp specs. So I've been under the assumption that manually changing your DRAM frequency, your timings/voltage/command rate adjust automatically.


Those timings you mention are just the "primary" timings. There's another dozen "secondary" timings in the XMP profile. I've never seen details about those timings mentioned in documents on the webpage for the RAM, so the profile is the only place where you can get to them. The XMP profile can also do something to strange CPU voltage settings, so that's another thing you can't know.

The tool "Thaiphoon Burner" can read that stuff out of the RAM if you want to take a look at it. It has free demo version. I've also seen the full RAM timings displayed somewhere else, I think perhaps somewhere in HWINFO?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Those timings you mention are just the "primary" timings. There's another dozen "secondary" timings in the XMP profile. I've never seen details about those timings mentioned in documents on the webpage for the RAM, so the profile is the only place where you can get to them. The XMP profile can also do something to strange CPU voltage settings, so that's another thing you can't know.
> 
> The tool "Thaiphoon Burner" can read that stuff out of the RAM if you want to take a look at it. It has free demo version. I've also seen the full RAM timings displayed somewhere else, I think perhaps somewhere in HWINFO?


Ahh ok. I mean when enabling XMP, it showed these settings, and is also the standard settings for the ram I have I think. XMP settings are on the left side


----------



## deepor

Here's a screenshot of what I mean:



That's the full list of settings from the XMP profiles that are saved in the memory sticks on this PC here.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Here's a screenshot of what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the full list of settings from the XMP profiles that are saved in the memory sticks on this PC here.


Yeah I actually saw all of those in BIOS, those I'm not sure if they're identical when manually setting DRAM Freq ->Enabling XMP. I thought I had it figured out


----------



## paskanmyivat

I've been trying to figure out why my csgo is stuttering allthough i have like 250-500fps usually on 5on5 (250fps on maps like season, cache).

I've done alot of stuff, probably everything from this guide except BCLK thing which i tried today. I've had it on AUTO which sets it to 99.8 according to HWiNFO, CPU-Z shows 99.76.

So, i changed BCLK manually to 100.00, i cant disable Spread Spectrum on my BIOS. It made my system even more unstable, like i can feel it on desktop while dragging window (my dpc latency skyrockets to 1000) + While doing csgo benchmark demo (fps_test3) i get like 50-60fps less

I've been having this problem with csgo feeling like **** almost a year now, some days it feels smooth and others it stutters. Any idea?

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
Intel i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz, 1.22v (i cant OC past 4.3GHz without 1.3voltage
Corsair H100i (temps 50-60 ingame)
8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory 1.5v @ 9-9-9-24
XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers (temps 70-85 ingame)
2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K(CSGO installed on this)
XFX 550W Core Edition power
BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
playing csgo with 1920x1080 4x msaa 4x aa


----------



## jtl999

FPS and things seems a bit low









Things I would check first

Reset BIOS pulling out CMOS battery and reflash BIOS
Is your PSU voltage stable? check with multimeter or something.

Try more stable drivers (13.12, and 14.9 come to mind)

Thanks


----------



## Trull

Check
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> I've been trying to figure out why my csgo is stuttering allthough i have like 250-500fps usually on 5on5 (250fps on maps like season, cache).
> 
> I've done alot of stuff, probably everything from this guide except BCLK thing which i tried today. I've had it on AUTO which sets it to 99.8 according to HWiNFO, CPU-Z shows 99.76.
> 
> So, i changed BCLK manually to 100.00, i cant disable Spread Spectrum on my BIOS. It made my system even more unstable, like i can feel it on desktop while dragging window (my dpc latency skyrockets to 1000) + While doing csgo benchmark demo (fps_test3) i get like 50-60fps less
> 
> I've been having this problem with csgo feeling like **** almost a year now, some days it feels smooth and others it stutters. Any idea?
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
> Intel i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz, 1.22v (i cant OC past 4.3GHz without 1.3voltage
> Corsair H100i (temps 50-60 ingame)
> 8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory 1.5v @ 9-9-9-24
> XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers (temps 70-85 ingame)
> 2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K(CSGO installed on this)
> XFX 550W Core Edition power
> BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
> playing csgo with 1920x1080 4x msaa 4x aa


Check background programs and services.


----------



## paskanmyivat

I usually close every program before i start the game, you actually replied to my post couple months ago and suggested to flash my R9 290X BIOS, i think i flashed it with newest from here ( http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/index.php?manufacturer=XFX&model=R9+290X ). Is that good or should i look for another bios?

+ Does anyone of you guys play ESEA? I think my game stutters a way more on esea client. Sometimes the client even eats 25% cpu and i need to close & restart it.


----------



## paskanmyivat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Check background programs and services.


I usually close every program before i start the game, you actually replied to my post couple months ago and suggested to flash my R9 290X BIOS, i think i flashed it with newest from here ( http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/index.php?manufacturer=XFX&model=R9+290X ). Is that good or should i look for another bios?

+ Does anyone of you guys play ESEA? I think my game stutters a way more on esea client. Sometimes the client even eats 25% cpu and i need to close & restart it.[/quote]


----------



## Topkek007

Might catch somebody's interest: http://www.ouma.jp/ootake/delay-win7vista.html http://www.ouma.jp/ootake/delay.html
and try http://www.ouma.jp/ootake/ with a game like http://www.emuparadise.me/PC_Engine_-_TurboGrafx16_ROMs/Blazing_Lazers_%28USA%29/63481 I was amazed with that low input lag, by the way, press enter to adjust the jet's movement speed









In my opinion NVIDIA drivers are bad and the "max frames to render ahead" does not even work, I would switch to ATI but what is keeping me back is the GSYNC monitor I have. :/

Oh and for people talking about CS:GO here:
that game must be pretty poorly coded, hence that the hit registration would be most likely better without their lag compensation.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> I usually close every program before i start the game, you actually replied to my post couple months ago and suggested to flash my R9 290X BIOS, i think i flashed it with newest from here ( http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/index.php?manufacturer=XFX&model=R9+290X ). Is that good or should i look for another bios?
> 
> + Does anyone of you guys play ESEA? I think my game stutters a way more on esea client. Sometimes the client even eats 25% cpu and i need to close & restart it.


I've had to restart my PC before, went in a scrim and my fps was spiking down to the low 100's from 300 constant and the game was extremely choppy as if I was on an awful laptop. I think it's a memory leak issue with the combination of ESEA client & CS:GO. Someone posted on the ESEA forums to do this: open ESEA client but DON'T LOGIN, open CS:GO, than login to client, since that's the only way you can technically open CS:GO before ESEA client. The new NVIDIA GTA V hotfix drivers are god awful. I've been using 344.11, no issues, but in GTA V the character models all had horizontal black lines from head to toe, and apparently I needed to update my drivers to fix that. Decided to open CS:GO just now thinking there should be zero difference, my game literally hiccuped every 5-10 seconds to the point I was frozen in place and dead.


----------



## zb0t

I've always wanted to post in this thread months ago, so I'll do it now. Anyone did a benchmark or monitored their system before and after r0ach guide?

r0ach did you do it?


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> I've always wanted to post in this thread months ago, so I'll do it now. Anyone did a benchmark or monitored their system before and after r0ach guide?
> 
> r0ach did you do it?


It definitely does decrease latency, but it may or may not be noticeable for certain people.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> I've always wanted to post in this thread months ago, so I'll do it now. Anyone did a benchmark or monitored their system before and after r0ach guide?
> 
> r0ach did you do it?


The biggest change for me was changing my BLCK to 100.01 and disabling HPET. I can't feel any other tweaks besides those.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> I've been trying to figure out why my csgo is stuttering allthough i have like 250-500fps usually on 5on5 (250fps on maps like season, cache).
> 
> I've done alot of stuff, probably everything from this guide except BCLK thing which i tried today. I've had it on AUTO which sets it to 99.8 according to HWiNFO, CPU-Z shows 99.76.
> 
> So, i changed BCLK manually to 100.00, i cant disable Spread Spectrum on my BIOS. It made my system even more unstable, like i can feel it on desktop while dragging window (my dpc latency skyrockets to 1000) + While doing csgo benchmark demo (fps_test3) i get like 50-60fps less
> 
> I've been having this problem with csgo feeling like **** almost a year now, some days it feels smooth and others it stutters. Any idea?
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
> Intel i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz, 1.22v (i cant OC past 4.3GHz without 1.3voltage
> Corsair H100i (temps 50-60 ingame)
> 8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory 1.5v @ 9-9-9-24
> XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers (temps 70-85 ingame)
> 2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K(CSGO installed on this)
> XFX 550W Core Edition power
> BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
> playing csgo with 1920x1080 4x msaa 4x aa


Did you follow R0ach's guide and reinstall windows according to his windows install guide?


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> I've been trying to figure out why my csgo is stuttering allthough i have like 250-500fps usually on 5on5 (250fps on maps like season, cache).
> 
> I've done alot of stuff, probably everything from this guide except BCLK thing which i tried today. I've had it on AUTO which sets it to 99.8 according to HWiNFO, CPU-Z shows 99.76.
> 
> So, i changed BCLK manually to 100.00, i cant disable Spread Spectrum on my BIOS. It made my system even more unstable, like i can feel it on desktop while dragging window (my dpc latency skyrockets to 1000) + While doing csgo benchmark demo (fps_test3) i get like 50-60fps less
> 
> I've been having this problem with csgo feeling like **** almost a year now, some days it feels smooth and others it stutters. Any idea?
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
> Intel i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz, 1.22v (i cant OC past 4.3GHz without 1.3voltage
> Corsair H100i (temps 50-60 ingame)
> 8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory 1.5v @ 9-9-9-24
> XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers (temps 70-85 ingame)
> 2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K(CSGO installed on this)
> XFX 550W Core Edition power
> BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
> playing csgo with 1920x1080 4x msaa 4x aa


Setting the texture quality to "very low" fix stuttering on my system.


----------



## baskinghobo

It would be cool if some pro gamer tested all these settings with a regular system and see if he could tell the difference.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baskinghobo*
> 
> It would be cool if some pro gamer tested all these settings with a regular system and see if he could tell the difference.


You say that like pro gamers are some sort of optimized human machines or superhumans.









First, they would have to stop streaming, using crappy peripherals, etc.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You say that like pro gamers are some sort of optimized human machines or superhumans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, they would have to stop streaming, using crappy peripherals, etc.


If we didn't know better, one could interpret your words as evidence that this is all little more than snakeoil and trolling.

Good thing we all know better.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> If we didn't know better, one could interpret your words as evidence that this is all little more than snakeoil and trolling.
> 
> Good thing we all know better.


Hmm... ok? Cool story, I guess.

What I meant was that pro gamers aren't special and you know it, but you just can't resist the urge to be clever when no one's even talking to you, can you?


----------



## Trull

Oh, and completely unrelated, but _good thing we all_ don't have the need to tell everyone how many points we were awarded for folding, as if that's what really matters instead of the folding itself... right?


----------



## Zahix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paskanmyivat*
> 
> I've been trying to figure out why my csgo is stuttering allthough i have like 250-500fps usually on 5on5 (250fps on maps like season, cache).
> 
> I've done alot of stuff, probably everything from this guide except BCLK thing which i tried today. I've had it on AUTO which sets it to 99.8 according to HWiNFO, CPU-Z shows 99.76.
> 
> So, i changed BCLK manually to 100.00, i cant disable Spread Spectrum on my BIOS. It made my system even more unstable, like i can feel it on desktop while dragging window (my dpc latency skyrockets to 1000) + While doing csgo benchmark demo (fps_test3) i get like 50-60fps less
> 
> I've been having this problem with csgo feeling like **** almost a year now, some days it feels smooth and others it stutters. Any idea?
> 
> Gigabyte Z87P-D3 (with newest bios, F8)
> Intel i7 4770k @ 4.1GHz, 1.22v (i cant OC past 4.3GHz without 1.3voltage
> Corsair H100i (temps 50-60 ingame)
> 8GB G.Skill 1600MHz CL9 memory 1.5v @ 9-9-9-24
> XFX R9 290x /w newest beta drivers (temps 70-85 ingame)
> 2x 128gb SSD (Corsair Force GT with Windows 7 64bit ultimate installation + Kingston HyperX 3K(CSGO installed on this)
> XFX 550W Core Edition power
> BenQ XL2411T @ 144hz
> playing csgo with 1920x1080 4x msaa 4x aa


Did u try forcing 3d clocks on the gpu? You could also experiment with fixed voltage in msi afterburner. Also dont use msaa and dont use fxaa and motion blur.


----------



## altf4

Anyone knows what's the best nvidia driver right now for cs go in terms of input lag, i'm getting random crashes with 344.11


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Anyone knows what's the best nvidia driver right now for cs go in terms of input lag, i'm getting random crashes with 344.11


AFAIK 347.25 or 347.52


----------



## baskinghobo

of course none of this would be 100% proof but following the trends of pro gamers, they tend to be very good at noticing the untested. Like how many pros still swear by the old imo/wmo and more and more evidence from the smoothing phenomenon has come out proving the fact that there is something special about these mices. And then there's the whole finalmouse/m_rawinput 1 thing. r0ach is someone who has pushed the boundaries to some ridiculous threshold. What i'm proposing is some sort of best setup that is 100% proven versus the same setup plus all these tweaks applied. One thing i've noticed with all these hardly noticable tweaks (not talking about r0ach's tweaks) is that they are very hard to notice by itself but in combination together they amount to something pretty noticeable. I would test r0ach's settings myself but it would be an inaccurate one as my aim is very bad at the moment and when testing stuff like this the best testing methodology currently avaliable is to feel it out. I have tested it before when my aim was semi-decent and the only setting i could feel that had a very very small impact to the point where i can't confirm or deny whether it was placebo was the HPET setting. It made the mouse feel more jittery just like r0ach said. It may be possible because of pre-rendered frames and how i notice it makes the mouse more jittery but less laggy i have somehow associated it as less input lag and somehow by hoping that r0ach's setting would reduce the input lag i experienced this feeling but tbh considering the lack of proper tests on HPET and how out of coincidence my feelings matched up with r0ach's feelings on the matter i am leaning towards the latter. I don't agree with r0ach's idea though that jitter = less input lag but he is right in that it tends to be the case and he hasn't gone around saying all his tweaks are actual facts, he just tends to exaggerate things as we all know.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baskinghobo*
> 
> of course none of this would be 100% proof but following the trends of pro gamers, they tend to be very good at noticing the untested. Like how many pros still swear by the old imo/wmo and more and more evidence from the smoothing phenomenon has come out proving the fact that there is something special about these mices. And then there's the whole finalmouse/m_rawinput 1 thing. r0ach is someone who has pushed the boundaries to some ridiculous threshold. What i'm proposing is some sort of best setup that is 100% proven versus the same setup plus all these tweaks applied. One thing i've noticed with all these hardly noticable tweaks (not talking about r0ach's tweaks) is that they are very hard to notice by itself but in combination together they amount to something pretty noticeable. I would test r0ach's settings myself but it would be an inaccurate one as my aim is very bad at the moment and when testing stuff like this the best testing methodology currently avaliable is to feel it out. I have tested it before when my aim was semi-decent and the only setting i could feel that had a very very small impact to the point where i can't confirm or deny whether it was placebo was the HPET setting. It made the mouse feel more jittery just like r0ach said. It may be possible because of pre-rendered frames and how i notice it makes the mouse more jittery but less laggy i have somehow associated it as less input lag and somehow by hoping that r0ach's setting would reduce the input lag i experienced this feeling but tbh considering the lack of proper tests on HPET and how out of coincidence my feelings matched up with r0ach's feelings on the matter i am leaning towards the latter. I don't agree with r0ach's idea though that jitter = less input lag but he is right in that it tends to be the case and he hasn't gone around saying all his tweaks are actual facts, he just tends to exaggerate things as we all know.


i am not reading this wall of text. sorry.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> AFAIK 347.25 or 347.52


347.88 feels just like the two you mentioned. I have heard that 350.12 is not that great by the way.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> 347.88 feels just like the two you mentioned. I have heard that 350.12 is not that great by the way.


It's awful. I updated from 344.11 for GTA, and reverted back instantly.


----------



## altf4

Is that thing should be at 100.0 ?


----------



## altf4

Anyone have a clue about those cpu ratio things? should i leave it Auto?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Is that thing should be at 100.0 ?


it should but it doesn't a must

The LLC and Spread Spectrum tries to fix the fluctuations usually, but spread spectrum is not recommended enabled.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Anyone have a clue about those cpu ratio things? should i leave it Auto?


Leave at Auto, the Cpu Ratio is for Overclocking, the Ratio is what multiplie the CPU to get the frequency MHZ . for example ratio 45x100 = 4500 Mhz or 4.5Ghz


----------



## BigMack70

Some helpful stuff in here but your comments on RAM bandwidth/timings sound incredibly bogus to me...


----------



## altf4

Don't do mistake like me don't buy usb headsets it's soo bad, with unplugged i'm getting 50 us while in game, when i plug it on it spikes to 500-800 i'm not talking about deatmatch when servers overcrowded my audio stutters/fps drops from 300 to 60 with 144hz monitor it's just unplayble, and worst thing no solution for it.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Anyone have a clue about those cpu ratio things? should i leave it Auto?


If it's cpu cache you are talking about I suggest you set it manually. Also set the voltate for it just slightly higher, will decrease stutter, or at least it did for me and someone else with a good eyel.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> If it's cpu cache you are talking about I suggest you set it manually. Also set the voltate for it just slightly higher, will decrease stutter, or at least it did for me and someone else with a good eyel.


so i should set cpu ratio to all core or leave it auto whan ever i set it to all core it's automatically sets to 35, and what number should i put in cpu cache ratio? 35?


----------



## altf4

So i tested 10$ headphones with 3.5mm jack connector + enabled on-board audio my latency never went higher than 80 while in game i'm suprised, compared to my usb headphones (siberia v2 frost blue) the differences is night and day no fps drops in deathmatches/ no random audio stuttering while players spawning all over the map.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> So i tested 10$ headphones with 3.5mm jack connector + enabled on-board audio my latency never went higher than 80 while in game i'm suprised, compared to my usb headphones (siberia v2 frost blue) the differences is night and day no fps drops in deathmatches/ no random audio stuttering while players spawning all over the map.


So which was better?


----------



## altf4

Obviously the 3.5mm jack headphones + on-board audio enabled as i said my us never went higher than 80, with usb headphones it spikes up to 800us.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Obviously the 3.5mm jack headphones + on-board audio enabled as i said my us never went higher than 80, with usb headphones it spikes up to 800us.


USB headphones are never good, they take too much bandwidth from the bus and causes delays in the buffer. when there will be USB 3 headphones it will be better.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> So i tested 10$ headphones with 3.5mm jack connector + enabled on-board audio my latency never went higher than 80 while in game i'm suprised, compared to my usb headphones (siberia v2 frost blue) the differences is night and day no fps drops in deathmatches/ no random audio stuttering while players spawning all over the map.


I used V2's for a bit than got Sennheiser PC 350's.. never checked DPC Latency when using the V2's but I always felt my game ran better after ditching the siberia's.


----------



## r0ach

Testing out some new hardware soon. An Alienware Alpha (worst case scenario it will be used as an emulator / Dark Souls / GTA box with controller), LG 24GM77 (supposedly best 144hz at 24"), and a Dell S2715h (27" 1080p glossy panel that will overclock a bit).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baskinghobo*
> 
> It would be cool if some pro gamer tested all these settings with a regular system and see if he could tell the difference.


The main problem is, if you have a setting like HPET on, it adds kind of a base threshold making various system changes harder to notice, but with HPET off, and many of the other settings in this thread done, any tiny change in your system gives a large, noticeable difference. There are positives and negatives to each method.

*HPET on* = you feel like you have less mouse granularity, but overall more smooth movement.

*HPET off* = more granularity but feels like pretty much anything not configured perfectly can bring movement oddities or jitter-like effects in your input device

Windows 8 also uses dynamic ticks, which is going to give you skew/drift if you have HPET off. I'm not sure if it's enabled with power plan set to "performance" or not, but to disable it is:

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> If we didn't know better, one could interpret your words as evidence that this is all little more than snakeoil and trolling.
> 
> Good thing we all know better.


This is one of those Guru3d quad-SLI people that keeps haunting this thread. All you have to do is look at a laptop review for something like a Surface 3 Pro and notice the FPS they get while streaming + running an overlay is 1/2 what they get without it to know that streaming is probably one of the worst things you can do while gaming.

If you have CPU and GPU power to spare, I would estimate the best case scenario is it would feel similar to running a directx hook to maintain color profiles or running an aimbot or something. Playable, but still noticeable and a bit annoying.


----------



## altf4

Anyone knows what's the problem? It's not hardware related because i have the display scaling option on windows 7. (I posted this couple of weeks ago i'm asking for help again if anyone have a clue what problem is that)


----------



## japle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Anyone knows what's the problem? It's not hardware related because i have the display scaling option on windows 7. (I posted this couple of weeks ago i'm asking for help again if anyone have a clue what problem is that)


Haven't found a solution to this either, my monitor being AOC G2460F (144hz as well). However I systemically tried out all the latest drivers and found that 335.23 were the last ones which enabled display scaling on my setup. So switch to those drivers if you insist on having that option available.

And I just want to say big thanks to r0ach for all the insight you have provided us with! Good stuff.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *japle*
> 
> Haven't found a solution to this either, my monitor being AOC G2460F (144hz as well). However I systemically tried out all the latest drivers and found that 335.23 were the last ones which enabled display scaling on my setup. So switch to those drivers if you insist on having that option available.
> 
> And I just want to say big thanks to r0ach for all the insight you have provided us with! Good stuff.


Weird stuff, i still have no option to select display scaling with 335.23


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Anyone knows what's the problem? It's not hardware related because i have the display scaling option on windows 7. (I posted this couple of weeks ago i'm asking for help again if anyone have a clue what problem is that)


I have the same issue with my Asus G751JT , any idea ? it happened since all the drivers started with the 970


----------



## altf4

I might just leave it gpu / no scaling because i'm enjoying how smooth my mouse movements on 8.1 (i used r0ach 8.1 installation guide) and it's butter smooth on my rig compared to windows 7 a bit sluggish mouse movements in cs go.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Weird stuff, i still have no option to select display scaling with 335.23


See if changing to 120hz gives you display scaling. As other people have already mentioned in this thread, I believe 144hz requires some non-standard timings that might cause it to default to GPU scaling. I noticed BenQ was even recommending to use 120hz over 144hz on one of their monitors I tried.


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> I might just leave it gpu / no scaling because i'm enjoying how smooth my mouse movements on 8.1 (i used r0ach 8.1 installation guide) and it's butter smooth on my rig compared to windows 7 a bit sluggish mouse movements in cs go.


Mh, I tested it twice (fresh installation using r0ach's guide and g400) and I prefer windows 7 mouse movement on desktop and ingame (full screen).


----------



## altf4

Still no results, used DDU to unnistall and install once again older drivers (335.23).
Something weird here - So i got in windows 120hz, but in nvidia it shows 144 and i can't change it, i mean there is a option to 120hz but there is no apply button when i choose.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Still no results, used DDU to unnistall and install once again older drivers (335.23).
> Something weird here - So i got in windows 120hz, but in nvidia it shows 144 and i can't change it, i mean there is a option to 120hz but there is no apply button when i choose.


Somewhat off topic: I used 335.23 for a while, and recently when reverting back, I noticed it causes some strange mouse acceleration. Have you noticed any?


----------



## altf4

Half of my post is gone ok, but the point is it shows in nvidia 144 hz when i'm actually at 120hz, and i can't change it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Somewhat off topic: I used 335.23 for a while, and recently when reverting back, I noticed it causes some strange mouse acceleration. Have you noticed any?


I haven't played with it alot, i just tested if i have a option to select display scaling and switched back to 347.88.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Half of my post is gone ok, but the point is it shows in nvidia 144 hz when i'm actually at 120hz, and i can't change it.
> I haven't played with it alot, i just tested if i have a option to select display scaling and switched back to 347.88.


That's odd..I have the Asus 144HZ monitor, and I've never experienced that issue. I'm pretty sure Asus + BenQ are plug-n-play?


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> That's odd..I have the Asus 144HZ monitor, and I've never experienced that issue. I'm pretty sure Asus + BenQ are plug-n-play?


I don't know i never had asus monitor i wish i could try it, but i lost faith already, tried too much things to get display scaling option back.


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Still no results, used DDU to unnistall and install once again older drivers (335.23).
> Something weird here - So i got in windows 120hz, but in nvidia it shows 144 and i can't change it, i mean there is a option to 120hz but there is no apply button when i choose.


Change the refresh rate under the "change resolution" section!


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Versus2190*
> 
> Change the refresh rate under the "change resolution" section!


When i change refresh rate in windows it's changes by itself in change resolution section automatically to 120, so no luck.


----------



## altf4

Should i roll out this bios update?


----------



## deepor

You want to know if anyone found a problem with that BIOS update, right? You should ask that question in a thread somewhere in the motherboard sub-forum. There is probably a thread for your board manufacturer and maybe a special one for that particular line of motherboard. You can then hopefully find people with a board like yours that tried that BIOS in your screenshot and can say something useful.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Weird stuff, i still have no option to select display scaling with 335.23


Did you have that option with windows 8 before? I never had it with windows 8, I switched to 7 and it works fine even with the latest drivers. Using a XL2411t with gtx 760 via DVI-D

I also tried windows 10 and it wasn't there too.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Did you have that option with windows 8 before? I never had it with windows 8, I switched to 7 and it works fine even with the latest drivers. Using a XL2411t with gtx 760 via DVI-D
> 
> I also tried windows 10 and it wasn't there too.


I have it right now on Windows 8.1 and a GTX 680:



It was also there previously on a GTX 560 Ti, and with all various driver versions for the years since Windows 8 came out.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I have it right now on Windows 8.1 and a GTX 680:
> 
> 
> 
> It was also there previously on a GTX 560 Ti, and with all various driver versions for the years since Windows 8 came out.


It was only with my BenQ xl2411t, it appeared on my Samsung SyncMaster sa350 on windows 8 too.


----------



## altf4

Yes i have the option on windows 7, seems like it happens on all benq monitors or 144hz monitors.


----------



## x7007

[quote name="altf4"
url="/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/1500#post_23868176"]Yes i have the option on windows 7, seems like it happens on all benq monitors or 144hz monitors.[/quote]

any idea why I don't have it on laptop asus g751gt ?


----------



## rivage

What latency mesuring method should I use when Latencymon is running cuz I get significant better results when "Kernel timer latency" is checked than "Interrupt to user process Latency" ?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> What latency mesuring method should I use when Latencymon is running cuz I get significant better results when "Kernel timer latency" is checked than "Interrupt to user process Latency" ?


Well it depends if you want to know the latency for the kernel or the programs. Programs is usually more interesting.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Well it depends if you want to know the latency for the kernel or the programs. Programs is usually more interesting.


but how to fix or debug kernel high latecny ?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> but how to fix or debug kernel high latecny ?


You can't other than making sure bios + everything is optimized basically follow r0ach's guide and possibly some other stuff.


----------



## rivage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syE55-jEzb8

is this actually true?


----------



## Conditioned

All goats are really undercover vendigo vampires?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syE55-jEzb8
> 
> is this actually true?


Depends on the game. For CS:GO, I noticed zero difference.


----------



## altf4

Hello everyone again i wanted to update my problem with usb headsets and random latency spikes 700-500us, i think i fixed it by forcing devices to msi-mode. Now i my lantency never goes up to 100 in-game.
I'm thinking switching usb host controllers to msi-mode, but i don't think if it's good idea, for now this is how it looks like:

And btw there was a 2things that was causing my high latency it was: usbport.sys and dxgkrnl.sys, usbport.sys went away when i disabled Legacy USB support in bios (the reason why i was leaving it enabled because with disabled i can't enter bios), then i needed to fix second problem which was dxgkrnl.sys this one was solved by changing video card to msi-mode.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*


Uninstall Intel Management Engine Interface driver if you want cursor speed to be way snappier. I've tried with it installed and uninstalled on several different computers and cursor speed was always more sluggish with it installed.

Also, I'm buying a 30' sailboat in the near future and going to live on it a while so I'm selling my computer in the trader section if anyone wants a good deal on good parts. I can only bring lower power/smaller devices with me.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1554551/asus-z77-board-evga-970-ftw-evga-1300w-psu-more


----------



## Axaion

I hope you have a heavy duty tinfoil hat for that r0ach

Sounds nice tho, i like sailing, dont get a sunburn they suck


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Uninstall Intel Management Engine Interface driver if you want cursor speed to be way snappier. I've tried with it installed and uninstalled on several different computers and cursor speed was always more sluggish with it installed.
> 
> Also, I'm buying a 30' sailboat in the near future and going to live on it a while so I'm selling my computer in the trader section if anyone wants a good deal on good parts. I can only bring lower power/smaller devices with me.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1554551/asus-z77-board-evga-970-ftw-evga-1300w-psu-more


I didn't notice any issues on my laptop Asus G751JT with HPET force enabled.

Need this device for overclocking the cpu a bit.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I didn't notice any issues on my laptop Asus G751JT with HPET force enabled.
> 
> Need this device for overclocking the cpu a bit.


Intel management engine interface doesn't have anything to do with hpet or overclocking.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Intel management engine interface doesn't have anything to do with hpet or overclocking.


Check again, HPET has an effect on mouse cursor.

IMEI has effect as rocach said on the mouse movement but I need it to use Intel XTU to overclock the CPU.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Uninstall Intel Management Engine Interface driver if you want cursor speed to be way snappier. I've tried with it installed and uninstalled on several different computers and cursor speed was always more sluggish with it installed.
> 
> Also, I'm buying a 30' sailboat in the near future and going to live on it a while so I'm selling my computer in the trader section if anyone wants a good deal on good parts. I can only bring lower power/smaller devices with me.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1554551/asus-z77-board-evga-970-ftw-evga-1300w-psu-more


What influenced that decision? Best of luck m8


----------



## MonarchX

Its impossible to have a fully functional PC and get that awesome USB/mouse latency. There's just no way. My idle latency is 15-20, but as soon as I start using my WiFi or NIC/LAN and my mouse, it jumps and stays at about 50-100... I've YET to notice any de-synchronization and/or latency problems. Having super low latency only helps if you play some TN monitor with 1ms response time and no input lag. It doesn't help an average gamer on an IPS or VA monitor...

Also, if you install the latest RAW Intel DRIVERS-ONLY via Device Manager (*without using Installers*), use the latest firmware for Intel RST, LAN, MEI, etc., then you it won't affect your latency. Having the latest Intel RST firmware and raw drivers helps SSD SATA performance quite a bit.


----------



## MonarchX

Also, this HPET stuff worsens my latency. I have it disabled and its much better that way. I think HPET effect depends on overall PC configuration. The biggest latency-increasing functions are Kernel Mode Driver Framework, TCP/IP (NIC LAN, WiFi), USB drivers, DirectX, Port drivers, nVidia drivers (can't use old drivers!!!). My ASUS Xonar DGX UNi drivers (low latency install) and Intel RST are barely going above 30ms! Intel RST is NOT an issue.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Also, this HPET stuff worsens my latency. I have it disabled and its much better that way. I think HPET effect depends on overall PC configuration. The biggest latency-increasing functions are Kernel Mode Driver Framework, TCP/IP (NIC LAN, WiFi), USB drivers, DirectX, Port drivers, nVidia drivers (can't use old drivers!!!). My ASUS Xonar DGX UNi drivers (low latency install) and Intel RST are barely going above 30ms! Intel RST is NOT an issue.


I had to remove my DGX, I gave it to a friend to test due to his onboard sound messing up, and he said it made his game (CS:GO), extremely choppy as well :\


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I had to remove my DGX, I gave it to a friend to test due to his onboard sound messing up, and he said it made his game (CS:GO), extremely choppy as well :\


Must be bad drivers - tried using UNi drivers? They are excellent, low latency, and never caused anything, but good sound quality!


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Must be bad drivers - tried using UNi drivers? They are excellent, low latency, and never caused anything, but good sound quality!


Yes, and did the Low Latency preset when installing as well. Could be an issue with my motherboard, honestly not 100% sure.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yes, and did the Low Latency preset when installing as well. Could be an issue with my motherboard, honestly not 100% sure.


Yeah, maybe. Works flawlessly here, much better than Creative X-Fi Titanium did as far as latency goes.


----------



## MonarchX

FYI! *The EASIEST way to install Raw Drivers is to use either DriverPack or my personal preference - Snappy Driver Installer*. They both have identical drivers and they are updated on regular basis, but Snappy Driver Installer is much quicker and better-coded IMHO. The download is rather big - 9-10GB, but they contain practically all the drivers for laptops, desktops, etc. I wouldn't use these packs to install nVidia/AMD/Intel videocard drivers and/or Creative audio drivers because those are best installed using full installers to avoid any complications. All other drivers, including Intel Chipset, MEI, RST, LAN, ASMedia, RealTek, Sony, Toshiba, all kinds of printers, laptop pads, etc. can be easily installed using Snappy Driver Installer and/or DriverPack. These packs install raw drivers without using any installers that end up placing all kinds of services, startup items, and scheduled tasks that clog your PC for no good reason.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Hey guys, I'm planning on buying a new microphone. Just wondering whether I can get less hit on input lag by using a USB mic which will process everything on board (but leave the MOBO to deal with more USB signals = input lag?) or by using a 3.5 jack, which means, I guess, that the mic will send analog signal to be processed by the sound card. I have a Xonar DG soundcard.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm planning on buying a new microphone. Just wondering whether I can get less hit on input lag by using a USB mic which will process everything on board (but leave the MOBO to deal with more USB signals = input lag?) or by using a 3.5 jack, which means, I guess, that the mic will send analog signal to be processed by the sound card. I have a Xonar DG soundcard.


Get an analong one.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Hey everyone! I spent some time combing through this thread to cut down on input lag. Why not seize every advantage you can in online gaming, right? I'm planning on formatting my PC soon to start with a clean slate. What are Windows updates that are "must avoid", or even "must get" (I guess it's pretty unreasonable to ask for specific updates, so are there any general guidelines to help decide what updates to get?)

Also, if I have Windows installed on my second HDD, should I format that to get rid of it too? I think I remember hearing somewhere that if a second Windows install is detected a "boot manager" of some sort is automatically executed and causes severe input lag.


----------



## deepor

I have no idea about latency from a boot loader and boot menu and whatnot, but this here is a good idea in general:

In the BIOS menus, disable the SATA ports for all other drives except for the one you want to format and install Windows on (or you could physically pull the cables of all other drives). This way, the Windows installation program will only see the one drive you want to target, and will not be tempted to build a boot menu for you, and won't be tempted to make use of the boot loader that's with the Windows on that other drive.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I have no idea about latency from a boot loader and boot menu and whatnot, but this here is a good idea in general:
> 
> In the BIOS menus, disable the SATA ports for all other drives except for the one you want to format and install Windows on (or you could physically pull the cables of all other drives). This way, the Windows installation program will only see the one drive you want to target, and will not be tempted to build a boot menu for you, and won't be tempted to make use of the boot loader that's with the Windows on that other drive.


So the issue is that windows create the same boot files or partition on all the hard drives ? can you and how to fix it if you already installed windows 7 uefi or non uefi or it is only on windows 8 uefi or non uefi ?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> So the issue is that windows create the same boot files or partition on all the hard drives ? can you and how to fix it if you already installed windows 7 uefi or non uefi or it is only on windows 8 uefi or non uefi ?


What happens is that when the installation program sees the boot loader on the other drive, it might think that this is the place where the BIOS is looking for what to load when the machine starts up. It then installs your new Windows on your target drive, but does not put boot loader stuff on that target drive. Instead, it uses the boot loader on the other drive to load your new Windows. When you remove your other drive, your new Windows won't boot anymore.

I gave up trying to build that boot loader stuff manually myself. I reinstalled Windows.

If you don't know how UEFI works in detail, there's now a hidden FAT32 formatted partition with the boot loader and data for it. All of it is in normal files. It seems you should be able to do things to it yourself. I tried creating the partition and the folders myself and copied things into it, but I didn't manage to get it to boot.


----------



## trodas

I just wanted to say THANKS for the OP, because I realized, that the PCI latency setting 32 in my ASRock bios might be responsible for some of the jerking during 3DMark benches, so... THANKS and +rep! I will take a look


----------



## r0ach

UEFI mouse movement has always felt off to me compared to legacy boot. I don't know the exact reason why. It could be the secure boot features or a million other things.

On a different subject, I bought an Alienware Alpha box for $399 on sale because I needed the lowest power device possible that could play games on a boat. It uses something like 70watts with 750ti performance. I was expecting it to not be very good, but what's interesting is I got it to hit 5 DPC latency with HPET on, something I've never seen accomplished on any PC before:



That picture is with Intel Wifi on and the Realtek ethernet disabled. I need to test removing the intel Wifi card and using the Realtek ethernet next to see if it's better or worse. I also have on-board sound disabled and it sends sound through the Nvidia HDMI to the monitor. The S27D390 Samsung has a 3.5mm audio jack on the monitor that you send sound to an external device with. I also put in 8g Kingston HyperX and 500g Saumsung 850 Evo. Runs like a slug with the default hard drive.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

That's really not bad at all for a budget box with sound running through NVIDIA audio.

Not to brag, but...












This is with everything enabled and running like I would have it for gaming, except Steam isn't running. I've spent a long time testing even the most obscure optimizations, and I feel like my current hardware/OS/firmware/software setup is about as good as you could do for gaming, with regards to input latency, USB polling precision, and static rendering performance.

Honestly I think the biggest latency contributors left on my setup would be my CPU and GPU fan control software, ASUS FAN Xpert 2 and MSI Afterburner respectively. They are still the best options available for the job imo, and the thermal control is more than worth it. But their contributions are microscopic compared to the only remaining noticeable source of gaming lag--unavoidable network latency to game servers. It feels really nice to finally feel like the only thing between me and gaming perfection is a measly 25 or 30ms ping to the server.

The group effort, analysis, and scrutiny from threads in knowledgeable communities like this is really effective, and invaluable for trying to do something as finicky, poorly discoursed, and wildly variable as trying to optimize your particular gaming setup.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Not to brag, but...


Yea, the Asus z77 I had did 2 DPC with USB keyboard and 1.5 or something with PS2 keyboard


----------



## Bucake

i'm thinking of building a new PC / case this year.
what motherboard would be a good starting place?


----------



## Topkek007

How about blaming electricity as well? http://www.copper.org/publications/newsletters/innovations/1999/03/power.html


----------



## Lust

Should we install the chipset drivers if using win 7? Also, how do we enable Legacy boot in an Asus z87 Hero motherboard?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lust*
> 
> Should we install the chipset drivers if using win 7? Also, how do we enable Legacy boot in an Asus z87 Hero motherboard?


yes always install.

You can search google with asus z87 hero legacy boot and look for photos. You just disable uefi and enable CSM


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> yes always install.
> 
> You can search google with asus z87 hero legacy boot and look for photos. You just disable uefi and enable CSM


Latest version is 10.0.27, I believe. Random question for you guys; I enabled XMP in my BIOS just now, and my in-game (CS:GO) sensitivity felt higher. Prior to XMP being enabled, I manually set my DRAM Frequency, which set my timings, all identical to XMP. Does this make any sense?


----------



## altf4

I think gpu boost 2.0 can cause dpc spikes, but i'm not sure yet, at what point it's turning on and off. Anyway as i updated my dpc problems is fixed, my mouse still feels sluggish in cs go or it's just my imagination







Also been testing with resolutions, i'm ignoring the display - no scaling option because i just hate native resolution in cs go, too cripsy for me, i have to go lower for like 1600x900 144HZ, if i go lower resolution the mouse movements feels smoother even tho i got same fps no matter what resolution, but i don't like the fact lower resolution - the vision from long distances is worse.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> I think gpu boost 2.0 can cause dpc spikes, but i'm not sure yet, at what point it's turning on and off. Anyway as i updated my dpc problems is fixed, my mouse still feels sluggish in cs go or it's just my imagination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also been testing with resolutions, i'm ignoring the display - no scaling option because i just hate native resolution in cs go, too cripsy for me, i have to go lower for like 1600x900 144HZ, if i go lower resolution the mouse movements feels smoother even tho i got same fps no matter what resolution, but i don't like the fact lower resolution - the vision from long distances is worse.


Are you scaling on GPU or Display?


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> That's really not bad at all for a budget box with sound running through NVIDIA audio.
> 
> Not to brag, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is with everything enabled and running like I would have it for gaming, except Steam isn't running. I've spent a long time testing even the most obscure optimizations, and I feel like my current hardware/OS/firmware/software setup is about as good as you could do for gaming, with regards to input latency, USB polling precision, and static rendering performance.
> 
> Honestly I think the biggest latency contributors left on my setup would be my CPU and GPU fan control software, ASUS FAN Xpert 2 and MSI Afterburner respectively. They are still the best options available for the job imo, and the thermal control is more than worth it. But their contributions are microscopic compared to the only remaining noticeable source of gaming lag--unavoidable network latency to game servers. It feels really nice to finally feel like the only thing between me and gaming perfection is a measly 25 or 30ms ping to the server.
> 
> The group effort, analysis, and scrutiny from threads in knowledgeable communities like this is really effective, and invaluable for trying to do something as finicky, poorly discoursed, and wildly variable as trying to optimize your particular gaming setup.


Pls teach me senpai


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Pls teach me senpai


Seconded, we need tips.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> That's really not bad at all for a budget box with sound running through NVIDIA audio.
> 
> Not to brag, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is with everything enabled and running like I would have it for gaming, except Steam isn't running. I've spent a long time testing even the most obscure optimizations, and I feel like my current hardware/OS/firmware/software setup is about as good as you could do for gaming, with regards to input latency, USB polling precision, and static rendering performance.
> 
> Honestly I think the biggest latency contributors left on my setup would be my CPU and GPU fan control software, ASUS FAN Xpert 2 and MSI Afterburner respectively. They are still the best options available for the job imo, and the thermal control is more than worth it. But their contributions are microscopic compared to the only remaining noticeable source of gaming lag--unavoidable network latency to game servers. It feels really nice to finally feel like the only thing between me and gaming perfection is a measly 25 or 30ms ping to the server.
> 
> The group effort, analysis, and scrutiny from threads in knowledgeable communities like this is really effective, and invaluable for trying to do something as finicky, poorly discoursed, and wildly variable as trying to optimize your particular gaming setup.


Not that those arent nice, but people really need to have the program running for more than 15 minutes.

9 seconds tells absolutely nothing.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Are you scaling on GPU or Display?


No i'm using display scaling - aspect ratio i don't feel a big difference changing it to no scaling.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> No i'm using display scaling - aspect ratio i don't feel a big difference changing it to no scaling.


If you cant detect the difference then why would you go against everyones recommendation.


----------



## Huzzaa

Simple question to the folks here.

Is it worth going back to win7 from 8.1 just to get the display-noscaling function back or not.

Currently, 8 and upwards they have removed it as a possibility, can only scale on the GPU.


----------



## softskiller

I want to add one thing:
If you disable USB3.0 your USB2 ports will get routed through the USB2 controllers/generic hubs/root hubs.

Now attach a USB device like a stick/disk to your front ports.
In the device manager chose "devices by connection"
Expand the two USB controllers -> root hubs -> generic hubs.

Look that your mouse at the rear ports were you usually have 2x2 USB2 ports is connected to the controller that does not also feed the onboard connectors for the front ports.

If the device you attached at the front port shares the same controller/hub with the mouse, switch your mouse to the other pair of ports on the other controller.
-> better mouse response/less load on that controller and hubs.

EDIT: I got told to also check VolsAndJezuz guide http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/1010#post_23334527


----------



## scorpinot

How would a 3.0 USB docking station affect mouse latency? (ex: http://tinyurl.com/pg2dd7z)


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Not that those arent nice, but people really need to have the program running for more than 15 minutes.
> 
> 9 seconds tells absolutely nothing.


5 minutes was all I could bare to sit and stare at it.



The pagefaults were almost 100% from LatencyMon's process, idk why that is. Also I have my pagefile turned off. Not sure what if any relation the two have to each other. But I don't think any other processes were making any meaningful contribution in teams of pagefault resolution time, so it's probably not big deal. I just don't know much about pagefaults


----------



## scorpinot

http://www.princeton.edu/~dlustig/dlustig_HPCA13.pdf --- nifty... --- http://www.pcworld.com/article/2920252/amd-developing-megachip-that-combines-cpus-and-gpus.html --- http://www.displaylag.com/reduce-input-lag-in-pc-games-the-definitive-guide/


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> 5 minutes was all I could bare to sit and stare at it.
> 
> 
> 
> The pagefaults were almost 100% from LatencyMon's process, idk why that is. Also I have my pagefile turned off. Not sure what if any relation the two have to each other. But I don't think any other processes were making any meaningful contribution in teams of pagefault resolution time, so it's probably not big deal. I just don't know much about pagefaults


Well 5 minutes is much better than what most people do anyway!









And yeah, very nice, my system just refuses to stay there..

I assume it was just on desktop with nothing else running, i usually just have firefox running with a few thousand tabs and play a game while it runs


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Well 5 minutes is much better than what most people do anyway!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, very nice, my system just refuses to stay there..
> 
> I assume it was just on desktop with nothing else running, i usually just have firefox running with a few thousand tabs and play a game while it runs


That's exactly what I have running during normal use except for Firefox and Steam. I seem to get around the same general average latencies with Steam open (maybe it would be worse if I didn't have it set to Below Normal priority), with the few occasional spikes that bump up a few of the highest reported numbers quite a bit. Firefox seems to both bump up the general average latency and give arguably more occasional spikes, but it's highly dependent on browser load of course.

Having a browser open while gaming though? I would never dream of committing such barefaced blasphemy


----------



## Axaion

I pretty much always have firefox open.. takes a while to load it now due to the tabs


----------



## agsz

So is everyone here against Intel Management Engine Interface? I was reading the only thread I could find but on a different forum explaining it a bit more in-depth. (click here)


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I suspect that I'm in the minority here, but I'm all for Intel Management Engine. It was my experience that updating ME Firmware, as per that thread, to the latest version for my chipset (Z77 --> ME 1.5MB Firmware v8.1.52.1496) and installing the latest MEI Driver and Software (v10.0.3x.xxx) had a positive effect on my overclocking stability, as compared to the manufacturer installed ME Firmware version and no MEI Driver/Software. And I could find no noticeable or measurable effect on rendering performance, input lag, DPC latency, or USB polling stability/precision.

Maybe it just depends on your specific chipset and therefore the version of ME Firmware, as far as whether installing/updating it is a good or bad optimization. Or maybe some older versions of the MEI had some negative performance effects that soured people to it. It's also worth noting that I'm using a modded mobo BIOS with updated SATA OROM module and update CPU microcode, as well as a modded GPU BIOS, so maybe that has allowed my system to better reap the benefits of MEI or just get along better with it.

Whatever the case, I'm firmly on-board with updating ME Firmware and MEI Driver/Software as an optimization. It is one of those finicky things however that seems can really only be validated or invalidated as a good optimization on an individual basis, through personal testing.


----------



## deepor

On my Z77 board, when I played around with updating the MEI module in the BIOS to a newer version, and with updating the MEI firmware in the chipset with Intel's flash tool for that, I had problems with the device apparently crashing after standby+resume. It would get a red X onto its icon in the device manager after a resume. That wasn't the case when using the older versions of the stuff.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Yes that's a common issue. I remember there was a decent workaround for that issue figured out eventually, but I can't remember what it is or where I saw it. I want to say it was maybe a CPU BIOS option, something with C states maybe?

I guess it's not a problem for me because I never use standby or sleep or anything -_-
My desktop is either running at 100% static overclock or is off.


----------



## r0ach

A device that I really want to like and what it requires for that to happen. My analysis of the Nvidia Shield X1 console:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/837799/shield-android-tv/the-r0ach-shield-analysis-don-t-let-mismanagement-destroy-the-shield-console/


----------



## agsz

@r0ach: have you used Intel NIC Driver v20.0 yet? Was waiting for you to put update the OP regarding thoughts on latest.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> @r0ach: have you used Intel NIC Driver v20.0 yet? Was waiting for you to put update the OP regarding thoughts on latest.


Haven't. Lately I've been trying to build the ultimate low power use emulator box. I have a giant stockpile of roms from 8bit to ps2/wii and won't play them until I load everything onto a box with a decent front end and good controller. Was going to use a NUC, but think I'll settle for a shield X1 now.

Nintendo appears to be releasing an Android console along with Nvidia: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/06/report-nintendos-next-console-will-have-android-based-os/

Wii used 20watts, the Nvidia shield X1 console uses 19w, so I wonder what exactly Nintendo is releasing. Seems like it will probably have cross system compatibility with the Nvidia device. Android will probably start to get decent games now but it might take a year or so.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Haven't. Lately I've been trying to build the ultimate low power use emulator box. I have a giant stockpile of roms from 8bit to ps2/wii and won't play them until I load everything onto a box with a decent front end and good controller. Was going to use a NUC, but think I'll settle for a shield X1 now.
> 
> Nintendo appears to be releasing an Android console along with Nvidia: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/06/report-nintendos-next-console-will-have-android-based-os/
> 
> Wii used 20watts, the Nvidia shield X1 console uses 19w, so I wonder what exactly Nintendo is releasing. Seems like it will probably have cross system compatibility with the Nvidia device. Android will probably start to get decent games now but it might take a year or so.


Is this for the sailboat?


----------



## r0ach

Well, even if you're making an emulator box for a house, you don't really want something that's going to be doing 100-200w idle... Then you feel like you actually have to turn it off instead of just leaving it on all the time.

Intel NUCs are 7ish watts idle, 20w load for i3/i5. Alienware Alpha are 20w idle 70w load. The Nvidia Shield X1 console is around 5 watts idle 19w load, with much higher GPU power than a NUC and similar IPC to a Broadwell 3805u found in the $199 MSI Cubi. ARM is really starting to catch up and if A72 claims are real for late 2016, they will stomp whatever Intel can release for that power segment.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Well, even if you're making an emulator box for a house, you don't really want something that's going to be doing 100-200w idle... Then you feel like you actually have to turn it off instead of just leaving it on all the time.
> 
> Intel NUCs are 7ish watts idle, 20w load for i3/i5. Alienware Alpha are 20w idle 70w load. The Nvidia Shield X1 console is around 5 watts idle 19w load, with much higher GPU power than a NUC and similar IPC to a Broadwell 3805u found in the $199 MSI Cubi. ARM is really starting to catch up and if A72 claims are real for late 2016, they will stomp whatever Intel can release for that power segment.


Enjoy your boat and get off teh computer


----------



## r0ach

The beginnings of a r0ach Nvidia Shield X1 thread. I would install the 5.1 OS update but avoid the controller OTA update for now:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/840524/shield-android-tv/manuelg-bat-signal-shield-controller-update-oddities/

I'm definitely going to drive ManuelG insane with requests:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/838412/shield-feature-request-mouse-acceleration-on-off-checkbox/


----------



## agsz

r0ach getting developers fired by the day


----------



## agsz

Decidedt o try USB 2.0. Ran LatencyMon after to check, and I was having a lot of hard pagefaults from svchost.exe. Haven't tried it in CS:GO yet, hoping there's no difference sensitivity wise.


----------



## r0ach

Made instruction thread for anyone else that gets an Nvidia x1 Shield on easiest way to get all your apps onto it that aren't on the AndroidTV store but are on Google Play store:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/840967/shield-android-tv/step-by-step-guide-for-easiest-way-to-install-apps-not-on-androidtv-store/


----------



## MonarchX

FYI, latency is not everything and lower latency does not mean better framerate or smoother framerate. I followed this guide a while back and disabled HPET in BIOS and in OS. My latency did decrease, but I began noticing an occasional mini-stutter here and there and since I was using Borderless Window mode, I thought it was normal and no big deal. It was only recently I figured out that with HPET enabled in BIOS and OS, my mini-stutters vanished completely. No more mini-stutters of ANY kind, even though my latency went up slightly.

On SOME machines, HPET can cause the opposite and create frame drops, mini-stutters, but on other machines its the other way around. Machines that do get problems with HPET enabled may simply have poorly manufactured motherboards. For example, some motherboard have x86 (32bit) HPET while running x64 OS. That is ought to create problems! Other people are not aware that HPET must be enabled in both BIOS and OS. If they enable it either in BIOS or in OS alone, then that ca also cause problems. On my machine HPET MUST be enabled in BIOS and OS for the best performance.

Again, lower latency does not necessarily mean smoother gameplay.


----------



## dahahanne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> FYI, latency is not everything and lower latency does not mean better framerate or smoother framerate. I followed this guide a while back and disabled HPET in BIOS and in OS. My latency did decrease, but I began noticing an occasional mini-stutter here and there and since I was using Borderless Window mode, I thought it was normal and no big deal. It was only recently I figured out that with HPET enabled in BIOS and OS, my mini-stutters vanished completely. No more mini-stutters of ANY kind, even though my latency went up slightly.
> 
> On SOME machines, HPET can cause the opposite and create frame drops, mini-stutters, but on other machines its the other way around. Machines that do get problems with HPET enabled may simply have poorly manufactured motherboards. For example, some motherboard have x86 (32bit) HPET while running x64 OS. That is ought to create problems! Other people are not aware that HPET must be enabled in both BIOS and OS. If they enable it either in BIOS or in OS alone, then that ca also cause problems. On my machine HPET MUST be enabled in BIOS and OS for the best performance.
> 
> Again, lower latency does not necessarily mean smoother gameplay.


Well, it depends on your hardware as you said, some hardware cant handle TSC optimally, these issues are always documented on the manufacturers website/forum discussion.

Iam currently using a z77 shuttle, the BIOS there is locked to always have HPET on, i checked around on the shuttle forums and eventually asked them why it was that way, they essentially said that TSC had some issues compared to HPET (on the hardware level). However, they said that running a timer-combination on their hardware was completely valid and none of the issues they've documented persists with this combination, HPET+TSC.

I get the best result from running HPET+TSC, in terms of latency, smooth frame-to-frame gameplay and overall performance.

It all depends on the hardware.


----------



## eMbAh

Regarding disabling PC tablet components and Gadgets in windows: I can actually feel the difference, and I find it really strange that I can. Does anyone know what is going on there?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> FYI, latency is not everything and lower latency does not mean better framerate or smoother framerate. I followed this guide a while back and disabled HPET in BIOS and in OS. My latency did decrease, but I began noticing an occasional mini-stutter here and there and since I was using Borderless Window mode, I thought it was normal and no big deal. It was only recently I figured out that with HPET enabled in BIOS and OS, my mini-stutters vanished completely. No more mini-stutters of ANY kind, even though my latency went up slightly.
> 
> On SOME machines, HPET can cause the opposite and create frame drops, mini-stutters, but on other machines its the other way around. Machines that do get problems with HPET enabled may simply have poorly manufactured motherboards. For example, some motherboard have x86 (32bit) HPET while running x64 OS. That is ought to create problems! Other people are not aware that HPET must be enabled in both BIOS and OS. If they enable it either in BIOS or in OS alone, then that ca also cause problems. On my machine HPET MUST be enabled in BIOS and OS for the best performance.
> 
> Again, lower latency does not necessarily mean smoother gameplay.


It's enabled on yours by default, correct?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eMbAh*
> 
> Regarding disabling PC tablet components and Gadgets in windows: I can actually feel the difference, and I find it really strange that I can. Does anyone know what is going on there?


Difference in terms of mouse movement, framerate, or what specific area? I've always disabled all of those besides Windows Search & .NET Framework 3.5.1


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dahahanne*
> 
> Well, it depends on your hardware as you said, some hardware cant handle TSC optimally, these issues are always documented on the manufacturers website/forum discussion.
> 
> Iam currently using a z77 shuttle, the BIOS there is locked to always have HPET on, i checked around on the shuttle forums and eventually asked them why it was that way, they essentially said that TSC had some issues compared to HPET (on the hardware level). However, they said that running a timer-combination on their hardware was completely valid and none of the issues they've documented persists with this combination, HPET+TSC.
> 
> I get the best result from running HPET+TSC, in terms of latency, smooth frame-to-frame gameplay and overall performance.
> 
> It all depends on the hardware.


Is there a way to check on TSC or have it disabled? I read somewhere that HPET by itself is the fastest solution and HPET + TSC can be worse. I've never seen any TSC settings in BIOS or in Windows...


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> It's enabled on yours by default, correct?


Yes, it was enabled by default, but after reading guides about latency I disabled it and my latency went down, but there was an occasional micro or miniscule pause here and there in almost all games. It was such a tiny momentarily-disappearing thing that I thought its normal. Borderless Window mode was known to cause that at times, so I assumed that was the reason because I always used Borderless Mode to get rid of V-Sync input lag, tearing, force my ICC profile, and not having my FPS cut in half. I just re-enabled HPET 2 days ago and noticed my lantecy went up by 10-20ms, but miniscule mini-tiny-stutters vanished! Now I realize just how important it is to have perfectly smooth gameplay without ANY such stutters! Its much more immersive.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Yes, it was enabled by default, but after reading guides about latency I disabled it and my latency went down, but there was an occasional micro or miniscule pause here and there in almost all games. It was such a tiny momentarily-disappearing thing that I thought its normal. Borderless Window mode was known to cause that at times, so I assumed that was the reason because I always used Borderless Mode to get rid of V-Sync input lag, tearing, force my ICC profile, and not having my FPS cut in half. I just re-enabled HPET 2 days ago and noticed my lantecy went up by 10-20ms, but miniscule mini-tiny-stutters vanished! Now I realize just how important it is to have perfectly smooth gameplay without ANY such stutters! Its much more immersive.


In CSGO that's extremely important, enduring that stutter when peaking a corner and dying because you can't even shoot is the most frustrating thing. My mobo has HPET off by default, so I honestly haven't touched it, the only thing that caused that for me was Shader Cache in NVIDIA drivers upon their first driver release giving you control of that setting (337.88).


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> the only thing that caused that for me was Shader Cache in NVIDIA drivers upon their first driver release giving you control of that setting (337.88).


And now? Do you keep shader cash for CS:GO disabled? Or was it only when they first released this?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> And now? Do you keep shader cash for CS:GO disabled? Or was it only when they first released this?


Using 344.11, I have it enabled now. Not sure who this will help but, I ran some CSGO FPS Benchmarks, and found that using -threads in launch options, hurt performance by like 10%.


----------



## softskiller

I only have -novid as launch option.

What helps me most is to remove frame limit.
But I don't need 500 or 800 frames and spinning fans and high Watt usage!

I have to found a way that all those energy saving things don't kick in.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I only have -novid as launch option.
> 
> What helps me most is to remove frame limit.
> But I don't need 500 or 800 frames and spinning fans and high Watt usage!
> 
> I have to found a way that all those energy saving things don't kick in.


My current launch options are: -novid -nod3d9ex -high -freq 144 -refresh 144 +mat_queue_mode 2 -noaafonts +cl_forcepreload 1 -tickrate 128 -nojoy - I cap fps @ 300 so there's no screen tearing and so it doesn't jump around a lot causing choppiness as well.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Is there a way to check on TSC or have it disabled? I read somewhere that HPET by itself is the fastest solution and HPET + TSC can be worse. I've never seen any TSC settings in BIOS or in Windows...


TSC is the CPU itself. That's why you don't see anything to disable it. You can force Windows 8 to not use it to determine time by changing boot options with the "bcdedit" tool. I don't know what's going on with Windows 7.

HPET is not used unless a program explicitly wants to use it or you prevent Windows from looking at TSC.

Here's what I learned a while ago, reading documentation and mails from Linux kernel developers:



Spoiler: wall of text



TSC is inside the CPU. On Intel CPUs, it is a clock running at the stock speed of the CPU, so for example 3.4 GHz for a i5-3570K. It is a counter for the ticks since the CPU was powered on. There is a CPU instruction "RDTSC" that will put the counter's content into a register for the program to use. It's basically the simplest and least resource intensive method to access the current time, and very fine grained measurement is possible. The RDTSC instruction completes in a bunch of nanoseconds.

HPET is a device on the motherboard. It is outside of the CPU. It is a clock that is counting ticks. It is running at a rate that's a certain amount of MHz, not GHz like the TSC, so it's less accurate for measuring time. Accessing its counter seems to take several microseconds. It has timers that can be programmed. It will then send an interrupt to the CPU according to those timers.

There is also an older RTC device on the motherboard that might have already existed on the very first IBM PC ages ago. It can be programmed to interrupt the CPU periodically.

On Windows, the accuracy of timing done with those timer devices can be configured by normal programs. The normal accuracy is just around 16 ms. If a programmer thinks he needs 1 ms accuracy for the timing he wants to do, he needs to notify Windows of that, and the device will get reprogrammed.

I think Linux counts the same timer interrupts that are used for multi-tasking, the ones used for switching between threads/processes. That rate is fixed when the Linux kernel is built and is typically between 10 ms and 1 ms accuracy, depending on if the kernel is intended for a server or laptop or a desktop machine. There is also a "high resolution" feature if you need more accurate timing, but I didn't understand how that works and if normal user programs are allowed to use it.

Using TSC broke at some point in the past because of power-saving features that allow changing the CPU speeds dynamically, and because of multi-core CPUs that had a counter in each core that got out of sync when cores were sleeping. Because of this, the TSC was unusable when there was the switch from single-core CPUs to more modern times with dual-core and quad-core CPUs.

This problem was eventually fixed by Intel and AMD. On today's CPUs, TSC works again. It's a counter that runs at a fixed speed and isn't touched by power-saving. The RDTSC instruction run on any core accesses the same counter.

Linux and Windows test the RDTSC instruction of the CPU at boot. It is compared with what the RTC device on the motherboard is doing. If the test result is that the TSC of the CPU works correctly, this is what will be used to measure time. The HPET device will be straight up ignored. That's the default behavior on Windows 8 at least, and also what that one Linux kernel developer email explained.

Because of TSC working nowadays, all that talk about the timer devices and accuracy seems to not be relevant anymore.

If someone knows about mistakes I made, I'd be very interested in seeing corrections. I don't feel I really understood how those timer devices are used.


----------



## agsz

Not sure if I'm going crazy or not but, using my Mouse (Razer Deathadder 2013) in the USB 3.0 port, makes it feel a lot quicker.


----------



## iknowright

agsz do you get smoother gameplay with that launch options? Because i only use novid and freq


----------



## rows

I have deleted my creative drivers for the soundblaster Z, but I dont have any sound any more??


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> I have deleted my creative drivers for the soundblaster Z, but I dont have any sound any more??


No sound drivers, no sound. Seems pretty straight forward to me.


----------



## jtl999

I think he is referring to the absence of a generic Windows driver.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> agsz do you get smoother gameplay with that launch options? Because i only use novid and freq


Honestly, I can't say 100% for sure. Try them out and replace '144' with your refresh rate. Using -noaafonts & Disabling Direct-Write Font Smoothing in Settings > Interface, helps with fps drop from hitting TAB to bring up the scoreboard as well.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Is there a way to check on TSC or have it disabled? I read somewhere that HPET by itself is the fastest solution and HPET + TSC can be worse. I've never seen any TSC settings in BIOS or in Windows...


http://i.imgur.com/LYBC7eo.png


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/LYBC7eo.png


What's the takeaway from this?


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/LYBC7eo.png


So which one is better? I honestly can't understand those numbers


----------



## agsz

This is really odd, especially being on 1920x1080, but setting the Scaling Mode to 'Aspect Ratio' dropped performance by 3.6%. Haven't tested Display Scaling yet, but I assume it to be higher than Aspect Ratio as well.

GPU Scaling + Aspect Ratio:
1) 7487 frames 19.844 seconds 377.30 fps ( 2.65 ms/f) 32.327 fps variability
2) 7487 frames 19.887 seconds 376.48 fps ( 2.66 ms/f) 30.547 fps variability

GPU Scaling + No Scaling:
1) 7487 frames 19.117 seconds 391.64 fps ( 2.55 ms/f) 36.210 fps variability
2) 7487 frames 19.252 seconds 388.90 fps ( 2.57 ms/f) 33.537 fps variability


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/LYBC7eo.png
> 
> 
> 
> What's the takeaway from this?
Click to expand...

About TSC, you can see a difference in the efficiency of "QueryPerformanceCounter". The description of that Windows function is this:

"Retrieves the current value of the performance counter, which is a high resolution (<1us) time stamp that can be used for time-interval measurements."

On the two screenshots on the left, the function call finishes in seven nanoseconds. This is TSC being used to get the answer.

On the two screenshots on the right, Windows was forced to not use TSC, and the function call then takes 700 nanoseconds. It seems it needs to access those external timer devices on the board to answer the function call, and this seems to be one-hundred times slower.

Another thing that's interesting is that if you look at the other differences you can find, you see there seems to be no difference between the HPET device being enabled or disabled in the two screenshots on the left. What's happening there seems to be that with TSC being available for those high resolution timestamps for QueryPerformanceCounter, Windows perhaps straight up ignores HPET and only uses the RTC device for everything else?

On the right side, there is a difference between HPET being enabled or disabled. It seems Windows starts to use HPET for something when there's no TSC.

Those screenshots are from Windows 8. I think there were differences on Windows 7.


----------



## altf4

HPET DISABLED in BIOS/WINDOWS


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> About TSC, you can see a difference in the efficiency of "QueryPerformanceCounter". The description of that Windows function is this:
> 
> "Retrieves the current value of the performance counter, which is a high resolution (<1us) time stamp that can be used for time-interval measurements."
> 
> On the two screenshots on the left, the function call finishes in seven nanoseconds. This is TSC being used to get the answer.
> 
> On the two screenshots on the right, Windows was forced to not use TSC, and the function call then takes 700 nanoseconds. It seems it needs to access those external timer devices on the board to answer the function call, and this seems to be one-hundred times slower.
> 
> Another thing that's interesting is that if you look at the other differences you can find, you see there seems to be no difference between the HPET device being enabled or disabled in the two screenshots on the left. What's happening there seems to be that with TSC being available for those high resolution timestamps for QueryPerformanceCounter, Windows perhaps straight up ignores HPET and only uses the RTC device for everything else?
> 
> On the right side, there is a difference between HPET being enabled or disabled. It seems Windows starts to use HPET for something when there's no TSC.
> 
> Those screenshots are from Windows 8. I think there were differences on Windows 7.


deepor made a deeper analysis. This is all correct afaik. However I think in this regard win 7 is no different than win 8.


----------



## r0ach

For anyone that's buying a small form factor PC for some reason, it's interesting this Alienware Alpha box I got (bought it for $399 because I wanted a tiny box with low power consumption and higher power than a NUC), it gets 5 DPC in Win 8.1 (with HPET forced on and no way to turn it off), yet the lowest it would do in Win 7 was 50-60. I didn't spend a whole lot of time analyzing why, but it appears on newer hardware and drivers (z87 and higher boards + Win 8.1), they're finally starting to utilize MSI mode more on devices. They seem to not do this for many Win 7 drivers even for the same hardware.

Even though I'd rather use Win 7, mouse movement for the box was also crap in Win 7 and much better in Win 8.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rows*
> 
> I have deleted my creative drivers for the soundblaster Z, but I dont have any sound any more??


I get sound using the default Microsoft UAA sound driver in both Win 7 and Win 8.1 without installing any Creative driver. Those Creative drivers for Soundblaster Z also do NOT go on and off clean. I listed the stuff it installs a few hundred pages back but don't recall what it was offhand. It tosses in a few problematic, optional Windows updates and other things with the driver. I would honestly do a clean format if you touched the Z drivers at all.


----------



## Axaion

I dont get any sound either without installing the Crapative bloatware drivers or Windows update drivers on 7 Either

Did you do a custom ISO image?


----------



## altf4

I heard the display scaling option is back on windows 10 is that true? Btw r0ach do you install all windows updates in 8.1?


----------



## Karac

A couple of questions for you kind people:

- If I disable the Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor, will my PC still shutdown in case of overheating? According to this guide it seems so, but I found a different answer on other sites.
Quote:


> *Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor*
> 
> The Adaptive Thermal Monitor feature is intended to help protect the processor in the event that an application exceeds the TDP recommendation for a sustained time period. As such during the course of overclocking this can affect the stability of the frequnecy defined. As such it is advised it be disabled when under overclocking and stress testing with high load and high power consumption sythetics or applications. *Be advised this will not disable the CPUs internal TCC functionality.*
> 
> Thermal Control Circuit: Thermal monitor uses the TCC to reduce the die temperature by using clock modulation and/or operating frequency and input voltage adjustment when the die temperature is very near its operating limits. When at a range of approx 87 to 91c this will kick in and generally shutdown the system to ensure CPU functionality/lifespan.


- does someone know which drivers have the problem below? I'm using the 350.12 one on Windows 7.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 6) Install graphics card driver and reboot. After rebooting from Nvidia drivers, go into the Nvidia scaling tab and change it to "Display - No Scaling" and reboot again. Some Nvidia drivers have a bug where changing anything in the scaling tab messes up cursor movement until you uninstall and reinstall the drivers again, so at this point, you might want to uninstall and reinstall the driver and never touch the scaling tab again.


Thanks!


----------



## deepor

Even with the TDP completely unlocked, the CPU will still do things to protect itself if it gets too hot.

When the 3570k hits 105°C, it will throttle speed. If your cooler isn't completely broken, this will then keep the temperatures from going above 105°C.

There's a second limit at 125°C or so (not quite sure of the exact number). At that point, the CPU will shut itself off and then the board will shut down the PC.

The TDP settings, those will make it so the CPU falls out of Turbo Boost and down to base clock speeds. This happens when the CPU hits the power use limits you configured. When you overclock, you typically want to either disable those settings if possible on your board, or set it to crazy high numbers that won't ever be hit.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karac*
> 
> A couple of questions for you kind people:
> 
> - If I disable the Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor, will my PC still shutdown in case of overheating? According to this guide it seems so, but I found a different answer on other sites.
> - does someone know which drivers have the problem below? I'm using the 350.12 one on Windows 7.
> Thanks!


I believe it was older NVIDIA Drivers, prior to 344.11 that he was referring to.


----------



## Spieler4

My win 7 Pc now runs awesome. Thank You for this guide :-9

X79 deluxe 4820k
GTX 760 driver 347.09 ( works best for me with ASUS PG278Q g-sync)

Does any one use markCmouse fix ?
http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.dk/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html
I can feel a difference, but im not sure if I should use it or not ?


----------



## softskiller

Wow. You should make an own list what you have applied and what left out.


----------



## Spieler4

Just followed most of the guide in this thread .
Uninstalled not needed Intel software/drivers, windows updates&services
Disabled most of bios

keybord, mouse, x-box 360controller and 4g internet is connected to usb2

Sometimes I use
Game Booster v3.5 Beta the old one from IObit
Throttlestop 6.00

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=460602978


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spieler4*
> 
> Just followed most of the guide in this thread .
> Uninstalled not needed Intel software/drivers, windows updates&services
> Disabled most of bios
> 
> keybord, mouse, x-box 360controller and 4g internet is connected to usb2
> 
> Sometimes I use
> Game Booster v3.5 Beta the old one from IObit
> Throttlestop 6.00
> 
> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=460602978


Could you screenshot what programs / services do you have installed / enabled ?


----------



## Spieler4

I could uninstall/disable, optimize some more stuff, but im not sure if it will make it any better 

I have not uninstalled jave or flash
I dont have cd/dvd drive
disabled HPET in bios and cmd : bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock was nesseary

testing
rebooting OS into Diagnostic startup
msconfig -> General -> click Diagnostic startup -> click ok (not apply) -> reboot into windows with 21 process

does not make latency in dpc better

Edit : optimized windows drivers, services & processe. Changed picture to a better one


----------



## Kond3P

I followed the instructions as much as i could and got this:


----------



## deepor

You can't use the "DPC Latency Checker" program. It can't produce correct numbers on Windows 8. You need to use a program named "LatencyMon", and you might need to play around with the two or three measurement alternatives it has in its settings window.


----------



## Kond3P

Here's all the results from LatencyMon with different measurements.


----------



## agsz

I normally run LatencyMon for about 15-30 minutes, and it shows no issues. Today I let it run for 13~ hours and it did show some issues.


----------



## deepor

The name "storport.sys" sounds like something involved in reading and writing from drives. The issue that produced that 4 millisecond delay might then be in that drive instead of the board or software?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The name "storport.sys" sounds like something involved in reading and writing from drives. The issue that produced that 4 millisecond delay might then be in that drive instead of the board or software?


Not exactly sure honestly. I've never seen LatencyMon look like that, or that Service pop up as an issue. I found something regarding it, and turning off Driver Verifier. (Source: http://www.sysnative.com/forums/windows-7-windows-vista/12037-very-high-dpc-latency-storport-sys-ndis-sys.html)


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spieler4*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could uninstall/disable, optimize some more stuff, but im not sure if it will make it any better
> 
> I have not uninstalled jave or flash
> I dont have cd/dvd drive
> disabled HPET in bios and cmd : bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock was nesseary
> 
> testing
> rebooting OS into Diagnostic startup
> msconfig -> General -> click Diagnostic startup -> click ok (not apply) -> reboot into windows with 21 process
> 
> does not make latency in dpc better
> 
> Edit : optimized windows drivers, services & processe. Changed picture to a better one


Changed picture of services, programs etc. to a better one


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spieler4*
> 
> Changed picture of services, programs etc. to a better one


No Intel Management Engine?


----------



## Conditioned

Recently retested windows 7. This is with ps/2 keyboard, pcie sound, usb mouse, an external usb hub, xbox 360 controller, usb mic attached. Also had my antivirus and msi ab running.

http://i.imgur.com/3JanO3B.png


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Recently retested windows 7. This is with ps/2 keyboard, pcie sound, usb mouse, an external usb hub, xbox 360 controller, usb mic attached. Also had my antivirus and msi ab running.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/3JanO3B.png


how did you do that???


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> how did you do that???


looks like witchcraft to me


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> No Intel Management Engine?


No, I uninstalled it


----------



## 1Shot1Frag

Hi, i created an account on this site only to say THANKS to R0ach









This guide helped me to understand and reduce how dpc latency works, now mine keeps below 10µs with some 15-20µs spikes. Mouse input feels more "raw" now, my LG will never be the same









Again, thank you for sharing this.


----------



## x7007

Change the following two settings to "0" instead of "3":

- EnablePrefetcher - unneeded for SSD

What should I do with EnablePrefetcher in windows 8.1 and windows 7 ? Should in both be disabled ?

What should I do with EnableSuperFetch in windows 8.1 should it be Enabled / windows 7 disabled ?

Here this guy say some different than what you say , he says that in windows 8 Intel said not to disable SuperFetch. and Defrag does Trimming optimization for SSD.

https://tweakhound.com/2013/11/02/windows-8-1-ssd-settings-etc

Does Windows Loader Daz activator effects on windows 7 mouse speed ?


----------



## freddycatking

Hey guys, here is my current build .

I've followed this guide, but skipped any overclocking in the bios (just set those all to auto). I simply disabled all the features that needed disabling. I'm using windows 7 and a razer deathadder so I disabled a bunch of services, and also prevented my catalyst control center and razer driver from opening on startup after changing my settings. Unfortunately flip_queue_size works like **** on AMD so I set it to 2 instead of 1. Anyway after all of that, my DPC latency still runs sort of high and I still seem to have some performance issues, and my mouse still doesn't seem snappy enough.

This is while my computer is mostly Idle.

and here is the drivers by highest execution: http://puu.sh/ixsVp.png

Any suggestions? I'm thinking of switching to an nvidia gpu and upgrading my cpu, as well as getting a 120hz monitor. I play mostly CSGO fullscreen with 1280x720 res, and m_rawinput off. My only other hardware is a quickfire USB keyboard and a focusrite scarlet 2i2 which is a usb sound card with headphones connected, and a USB microphone, with onboard audio disabled. (USB microphone device still on)

I feel like I should be getting single digit DPC







occasionally right after boot, I will run latencymon and get 10 and under DPC and play a game for a while and it feels great. But after about 5 minutes my mouse starts to feel really rubbery and drivers start taking up more DPC.

EDIT: also thinking of switching to steelseries kana v2 but I would have to wait for shipping from asia. Also worth mentioning I have pretty much every single windows update.


----------



## Huzzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Recently retested windows 7. This is with ps/2 keyboard, pcie sound, usb mouse, an external usb hub, xbox 360 controller, usb mic attached. Also had my antivirus and msi ab running.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/3JanO3B.png


What soundcard?

I have a Xonar DX, idles at 7 on my system too. I'm on Win7 right now but when I play sound it bumps to ~80-100 and stays there, I'm thinking of changing the soundcard. My sig shows Tiamat but I'm actually on Beyerdynamics MMX300 right now, dumped Razer.

Never again... Razer, never again.


----------



## Conditioned

Asus essence stx with the the low dpc latency drivers from maxedtech. I get <30 ns when playing an audiobook with foobar, ymmv. Not sure if I would recommend this soundcard anyways.


----------



## Axaion

you mean µs right?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> you mean µs right?


Yes.

There's been a discussion on guru3d for some time regarding the no scaling on display issue in windows 8. Here's a user that claims to have a fix for windows 10, which, if it does work should work for win 8 as well. If you try it please report back. http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=5103569#post5103569


----------



## freddycatking

If I disable HPET but it still shows up under system devices in the device manager, is it really off?


----------



## Rty345

This feature dont work for me on asus vg248 qe. I have display no scaling option only at 60 hz, on 144 hz this dont work, only gpu scaling. Think, on new drivers at 144 hz create a display scaling is imposibbbble : ^ )


----------



## Rty345

No, u need disable HPET in bios and this device must be removed from device manager. If this feature still there, your pc working with HPET+default platform clocks as i know. More information you can find there: http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1075781-tweak-enable-hpet-in-bios-and-os-for-better-performance-and-fps/ this guy talk about perfomance boost using HPET. Ive tested with and without, without i have some more smoothness mouse movements but not ideal. Need test


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> This feature dont work for me on asus vg248 qe. I have display no scaling option only at 60 hz, on 144 hz this dont work, only gpu scaling. Think, on new drivers at 144 hz create a display scaling is imposibbbble : ^ )


Try 120hz.


----------



## Rty345

Tryed, thanks.Dont work because if install 120 hz , drivers drops to default settings 144 hz. Think, this program is useless. I install win 7 (original MS) and 350.12 nvidia and have a display scaling without program. Fck 8.1


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Tryed, thanks.Dont work because if install 120 hz , drivers drops to default settings 144 hz. Think, this program is useless. I install win 7 (original MS) and 350.12 nvidia and have a display scaling without program. Fck 8.1


Try CRU to create custom 120 Hz resolution. You can even delete any 144Hz resolutions with the EDID override, if you want to try and keep it from being changed to 144 Hz.

Personally, I unchecked and deleted every resolution, then defined standard 144 Hz and 60 Hz 1080p resolutions and a 1500 VT custom 120 Hz 1080p resolution, and finally a stock 800x600 60Hz resolution that is needed as a fallback for things like safemode, etc. This way, those are the only four native resolutions my display driver sees now. Here's what it looks like in CRU:


----------



## Rty345

I make this, after that in driver i found 144 hz option. With 144 or 120 hz with this program cannt create display noscaling. If you want, you may test this program in all variations, my tests are ends) goodluck


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Try CRU to create custom 120 Hz resolution. You can even delete any 144Hz resolutions with the EDID override, if you want to try and keep it from being changed to 144 Hz.
> 
> Personally, I unchecked and deleted every resolution, then defined standard 144 Hz and 60 Hz 1080p resolutions and a 1500 VT custom 120 Hz 1080p resolution, and finally a stock 800x600 60Hz resolution that is needed as a fallback for things like safemode, etc. This way, those are the only four native resolutions my display driver sees now. Here's what it looks like in CRU:


Hmm...i have some problem with drivers after reinstall windows. This program changes something in the firmware of the hardware monitor or in other hardware? Or just change the values in windows? Thanks

P.S. Anyone can make normal guide for cru program?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Hmm...i have some problem with drivers after reinstall windows. This program changes something in the firmware of the hardware monitor or in other hardware? Or just change the values in windows? Thanks
> 
> P.S. Anyone can make normal guide for cru program?


Does this work for 3D TV , I tried it last time but I lost the 3D capability


----------



## softskiller

Uninstalled Intel Rapid Storage driver like two weeks ago and always ended like at the bottom of the csgo scoreboards.

Wasn't able to hit anything, not even static bots on a testrange, always overshooting and had to adjust aim on the fallow up shots.

Now right after reinstalling the RST driver the mouse feels much better. Able to do flick headshots on moving targets.
Also the game video quality feels much smoother, less choppy (at 300 frames).

Might be, because I enable things like Package C-States (but also tried to disable them) and RST has an effect on latency/dpc/pci lanes?

Just uninstalling/disabling everything isn't always the best sollution for the individual system.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Uninstalled Intel Rapid Storage driver like two weeks ago and always ended like at the bottom of the csgo scoreboards.
> 
> Wasn't able to hit anything, not even static bots on a testrange, always overshooting and had to adjust aim on the fallow up shots.
> 
> Now right after reinstalling the RST driver the mouse feels much better. Able to do flick headshots on moving targets.
> Also the game video quality feels much smoother, less choppy (at 300 frames).
> 
> Might be, because I enable things like Package C-States (but also tried to disable them) and RST has an effect on latency/dpc/pci lanes?
> 
> Just uninstalling/disabling everything isn't always the best sollution for the individual system.


Are you referring to the Intel SATA drivers?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Are you referring to the Intel SATA drivers?


No i think hes referring to the racecar RST, its bright neon green with flamethrowers sticking out of the drivers helmet and uses tomatoes for lift.

I heard it won the 1972 potato racecar events in poland


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Hmm...i have some problem with drivers after reinstall windows. This program changes something in the firmware of the hardware monitor or in other hardware? Or just change the values in windows? Thanks
> 
> P.S. Anyone can make normal guide for cru program?


I'm almost 100% sure this will only change your software. Meaning if you reinstall your driver (with ddu) you will be fine.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> No i think hes referring to the racecar RST, its bright neon green with flamethrowers sticking out of the drivers helmet and uses tomatoes for lift.
> 
> I heard it won the 1972 potato racecar events in poland


I was trying to clarify between, the .inf for Intel SATA Chipset & the Intel RST Program


----------



## softskiller

I use the whole RST installer SetupRST.exe.
No single inf.

But I disable the Intel IAStorDataMgrSvc service that only "Provides storage event notification and manages communication between the storage driver and user space applications", also the tray symbol in the program settings and the autostart entry.

Uninstalling isn't that easy because IastorF.sys will stay as driver (of the drives) in the device manager.

This is, how I got rid of it before:
http://www.overclock.net/t/754763/as-ssd-benchmark-thread/2900#post_19561091

"You have to clean the registry from a faulty iaStorF entry, which has been forgotten to erase by the RST(e) drivers uninstall procedure. ... Don't try to delete the iaStorF.sys from the Drivers folder, because this will induce a BSOD at the next restart."

But now I reinstalled it and am happy about the mouse feel.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

*First I've to say I did solve the problem (testing for 2 days and looks like solved)*

I always had problem with mouse - keyboard lag. I play only Battlefield 4 and most of the time use air vehicles. When I play infantry didn't feel too much. But with jet and heli, big lag. most of the time crash with jet. Tested everything. 2 different keyboard - 3 different mouse,

For now I'm using Steelseries 6Gv2 (also has Logitech g710+)
Logitech G502 (best mice ever) (also has corsair M65 RGB - razer mamba 2012)

This is my 2nd system. Before using Asus p8z68 Deluxe and i7 2600k (Win 7 64 bit)

Now Asus X99 Deluxe and i7 5820k - 4400Mhz

Most people says Win 8.1 never use HPET and x99 doesnt has HPET but what is this;



It's Turkish but if we tranlate it's hpet..

Anyway nothing worked. Couldn't find HPET option in bios. Disabled from Windows with command

_bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock_

Pagefile disabled, because I've 16GG ram

Afterburner OSD disabled (this really effects)

sometims looks good sometimes feel lag still...

Than applied some options from the first page, Forexample Nvidia setting about Display



and these
_
Windows 8 Section

Uninstall the following until the menu looks like this:

- Internet Exploder 11 - first turn smooth scrolling off in options menu of IE, then under the about section, turn off automatic updating for it
- Print and document services
- SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support
- Windows Location Provider
- Windows Powershell 2.0
- Work folders client
- XPS services
- XPS viewer_

Tested mice 1000hz - 500hz - with software, with own ram...

didnt work well... Than I wanted try ethernet port. My board has 2 of them (my old motherboard has too) I was using port at the right one



Disabled it from bios and enabled other one; connected to left one - woow, everything changed... Never played BF4 like this before. I can use JET really easily, I can turn left, right very easily now. No lag anymore. I can go inside buildings with heli without crashing, hitting.

Strange thing is Latencymoon showed everything normal with the other ethernet port.

For now looks like



and system looks like this - should I change anything ?



For now - I don't feel lag (may be sometimes servers has lag)

_And I really recommend Steelseries 6Gv2 - Logitech G502_


----------



## karkee

So I have bought a new gaming rig to play CS GO, and I always checked out roach his posts about input lag.

What I found out that I didnt knew about yet:

- Secureboot as soon as this is enabled even if you set "Other OS" in Asus bios it still will somehow use the secure boot. You have to unload the keys in the bios, I notice a huge difference basicly like roach describes it, it feels like your PC has some virus or been rootkitted.. if you dont do this.

You can try this out easily yourself by unloading the keys and loading them back, start some game like CS GO or even in desktop I feel the snappiness more.

Anyone else knew this or is this what you ment roach? Because in your guide it does not say to "unload" the keys, I have an asus hero vii motherboard so maybi not all motherboards its needed. But if I dont unload the keys secure boot stays enabled.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> So I have bought a new gaming rig to play CS GO, and I always checked out roach his posts about input lag.
> 
> What I found out that I didnt knew about yet:
> 
> - Secureboot as soon as this is enabled even if you set "Other OS" in Asus bios it still will somehow use the secure boot. You have to unload the keys in the bios, I notice a huge difference basicly like roach describes it, it feels like your PC has some virus or been rootkitted.. if you dont do this.
> 
> You can try this out easily yourself by unloading the keys and loading them back, start some game like CS GO or even in desktop I feel the snappiness more.
> 
> Anyone else knew this or is this what you ment roach? Because in your guide it does not say to "unload" the keys, I have an asus hero vii motherboard so maybi not all motherboards its needed. But if I dont unload the keys secure boot stays enabled.


What do you mean unload keys? how do you do it


----------



## karkee

If you have an Asus mobo, where secure boot stands I can go Key management and than unload keys.

Only after that if I do this my secure boot says "dissabled" otherwise it says enabled.

And I am pretty sure it is the secure boot that gives insane input lag.


----------



## karkee

I also have some questions myself if anyone can give me advice:

I still need another Z97 motherboard, is there any difference in ASUS or MSI in terms of input lag? Is it easier or less "bull****" bios commands with asus or MSI for example.

Also another question with my new GTX970 I seem to have alot of fps drops for example in CSGO, I installed the latest ones and its ridiculus how much framedrops is it known with these drivers? Any better ones?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Sorry, but I'm confused; should I disable secure boot? If I should, how?

Thanks.


----------



## karkee

Yes you should if you can, it makes a huge difference for me atleast. With secure boot enabled I get INSANE mouselag.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Ok, I don't want to make any mistake; here SS from what I found in bios about secure boot. looks secure boot is enabled







If possible, can you explain what must I do step by step

Thanks.


----------



## karkee

I put OS type in "Other OS" , I don't know if you installed windows EUFI mode or not ?

But its best to have "Other OS"

And than in the settings where you see key loaded you can delete or reset the keys and after that secure boot is dissabled.

But make sure you only do this if you insalled windows in "MBR mode"


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> [...] But make sure you only do this if you insalled windows in "MBR mode"


There's no need to worry! Secure Boot disabled works fine with Windows installed in UEFI mode.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> I put OS type in "Other OS" , I don't know if you installed windows EUFI mode or not ?
> 
> But its best to have "Other OS"
> 
> And than in the settings where you see key loaded you can delete or reset the keys and after that secure boot is dissabled.
> 
> But make sure you only do this if you insalled windows in "MBR mode"


How does disabling Secure Boot in BIOS impact system performance and/or DPC Latency? Also, what's the difference between just unloading the keys and using 'Other OS'? Just curious, I've never heard of anyone recommending to disable it.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> How does disabling Secure Boot in BIOS impact system performance and/or DPC Latency? Also, what's the difference between just unloading the keys and using 'Other OS'? Just curious, I've never heard of anyone recommending to disable it.


I didn't find any difference with DPC. but if you don't want to use Secure Boot at all you need to delete the keys after you select Windows UEFI Mode and Secure Boot > Delete Keys if they are installed. if they are not installed you change to Other OS and then windows doesn't even check for Secure Boot mode which might do other things we don't know yet for the best.

Did anyone was able to check about EHCI Hand-Off ? I want to know exactly what it can do for the worse and for the good. People say disable it because it has support on the OS since windows XP SP2 . but what happens when it is enabled for other OS.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I didn't find any difference with DPC. but if you don't want to use Secure Boot at all you need to delete the keys after you select Windows UEFI Mode and Secure Boot > Delete Keys if they are installed. if they are not installed you to Other OS and then windows doesn't even check for Secure Boot mode which might do other things we don't know yet for the best.


So, just Unload Keys = Disabling Secure Boot, correct?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> So, just Unload Keys = Disabling Secure Boot, correct?


Correct , on the end of the day this is the way.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Correct , on the end of the day this is the way.


What does it do exactly? I couldn't find much info when Googling it, about performance benefits, and just general info.


----------



## r0ach

Just tested all new Nvidia drivers on both Win 7 and Win 8.1 from 350.12 (the GTA driver) and higher. 350.12 is far better mouse-wise than the newer ones in both operating systems. 353.30 is just plain sluggish in comparison.


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Just tested all new Nvidia drivers on both Win 7 and Win 8.1 from 350.12 (the GTA driver) and higher. 350.12 is far better mouse-wise than the newer ones in both operating systems. 353.30 is just plain sluggish in comparison.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What does it do exactly? I couldn't find much info when Googling it, about performance benefits, and just general info.


Secure Boot checks if the Windows boot loader on the disk is from Microsoft, or if it is changed. This is supposed to catch that the boot loader was hacked and infected by virus for example. The UEFI will not start the boot loader if the signature isn't the right one, and will stop booting the machine.

There is math for encryption that uses "private" and "public" keys, and that can be used to put a signature on stuff. Microsoft has a private key and uses it to sign their boot loader. The public key match for that secret Microsoft key, that's what the "load default keys" option in the UEFI is talking about.

There shouldn't be a change in performance as Secure Boot seems to just be a name for that technique of checking for an encrypted signature. It seems to be a piece of code that runs at boot and at that point makes a decision to stop booting or not, not hardware that's active all the time.


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Just tested all new Nvidia drivers on both Win 7 and Win 8.1 from 350.12 (the GTA driver) and higher. 350.12 is far better mouse-wise than the newer ones in both operating systems. 353.30 is just plain sluggish in comparison.


How is 344.11 compared to 350.12?


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Secure Boot checks if the Windows boot loader on the disk is from Microsoft, or if it is changed. This is supposed to catch that the boot loader was hacked and infected by virus for example. The UEFI will not start the boot loader if the signature isn't the right one, and will stop booting the machine.
> 
> There is math for encryption that uses "private" and "public" keys, and that can be used to put a signature on stuff. Microsoft has a private key and uses it to sign their boot loader. The public key match for that secret Microsoft key, that's what the "load default keys" option in the UEFI is talking about.
> 
> There shouldn't be a change in performance as Secure Boot seems to just be a name for that technique of checking for an encrypted signature. It seems to be a piece of code that runs at boot and at that point makes a decision to stop booting or not, not hardware that's active all the time.


But r0ach felt a big difference in swamp cursor, so you must be missing something.


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Versus2190*
> 
> How is 344.11 compared to 350.12?


Ok, just compared them, I stay with 344.11


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> But r0ach felt a big difference in swamp cursor, so you must be missing something.


It's probably the way the Windows boot process interacts with the BIOS when EFI boot is enabled.


----------



## eMbAh

why 344.11 in particular? Is it better than 347.88 for example, and why?


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eMbAh*
> 
> why 344.11 in particular? Is it better than 347.88 for example, and why?


Don't ask why in this thread.


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eMbAh*
> 
> why 344.11 in particular? Is it better than 347.88 for example, and why?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> Don't ask why in this thread.


I can't tell anything about the 347.88 driver but generally speaking all drivers feel differnt in mouse movement. Try it yourself if you don't believe but make sure you apply the nvidia control panel settings r0ach recommends.
"Bad" driver cursor feels like it's sliding on ice (for me at least







)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Versus2190*
> 
> I can't tell anything about the 347.88 driver but generally speaking all drivers feel differnt in mouse movement. Try it yourself if you don't believe but make sure you apply the nvidia control panel settings r0ach recommends.
> "Bad" driver cursor feels like it's sliding on ice (for me at least
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I've been on 344.11 for months, decided to try 347.88 the other day and it just didn't feel normal. I didn't notice anything really mouse wise, but my game didn't feel smooth.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I've been on 344.11 for months, decided to try 347.88 the other day and it just didn't feel normal. I didn't notice anything really mouse wise, but my game didn't feel smooth.


But it is a bloody old driver . can it still run new games properly ? I mean why nvidia screws the driver for a terribly long time and will fix it on 400 series drivers...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> But it is a bloody old driver . can it still run new games properly ? I mean why nvidia screws the driver for a terribly long time and will fix it on 400 series drivers...


I play CS:GO mainly, only other game I have installed is GTA V. GTA V ran flawless, only issue was the zebra like models,* black horizontal lines*. CS:GO runs best on 344.11 for me, but then again I don't really embrace change


----------



## Conditioned

My current fav is 347.26.


----------



## REDEFINE

Hey r0ach, Thanks for the guide. I usede all of your optimizations before using DPC checker and I could definitely feel the difference. Now im using the DPC checker and I was wondering if your DPC 19 reading is without a game running? I can achieve 33 DPC but if I open up BF4 it goes up to the 60-140 range. I just want to now if I should keep pushing to get into the 30 DPC range while in game or is that just a desktop reading?


----------



## Spieler4

Been useing this for testing and audio work for years.
Try it out instead of high performance power profile

Optimizing Windows Vista/7 Power Settings for Studio One
Power Profle Sets C0% = 100 and makes your cpu use max power : watt 
Might give yo a better dpc latency

This 'Audio Processing' profile disables processor idle states, processor throttling, core parking and Turbo Boost. You can go to the Power Options and deselect this profile at any time, if you want to use your computer as a low power media-server, for instance. Then, before (or while) running Studio One, select the 'Audio Processing' profile, and all is well.

To see the results of this power profile in action, open the Task Manager and view Performance, switching back and forth from the Audio Processing profile and any other. If this power profile has any negative impact on your system, simply switch to another profile. There are no permanent changes made to your system with this profile

http://support.presonus.com/entries/203607-studio-one-optimizing-windows-vista-7-power-settings-for-studio-one

http://support.presonus.com/attachments/token/ee4c35ydx8h80gn/?name=audio-power-settings.zip


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I always think I did solve the problem and always comes back. BF4 air vehicles really hard to control.

Didn't test the game but what I found for now; I did connect to my mice and keyboard to these ports before;



I didn't know that which ports controlled by Asmedia and Intel before. First I did uninstall Asmedia driver than removed device from device manager. Than did back to BIOS and disabled Asmedia controller. Than restarted PC and no mice / keyboard. Pluged them to yellow ones. And windows found them.



And here is the Latmoon result. Before in 3 min gooes to 150 - 160ms (highest) sometimes. I'll also run it for 1 hour.



And also disabled from bios

Execute Disable Bit
SMART Status Check
CPU Spread Spectrum
C1...

Also noticed my GPU runs 3-4C cooler - I don't know is there any connection between them. It always run 37-38C on desktop, now 33C


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I always think I did solve the problem and always comes back. BF4 air vehicles really hard to control.
> 
> Didn't test the game but what I found for now; I did connect to my mice and keyboard to these ports before;
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that which ports controlled by Asmedia and Intel before. First I did uninstall Asmedia driver than removed device from device manager. Than did back to BIOS and disabled Asmedia controller. Than restarted PC and no mice / keyboard. Pluged them to yellow ones. And windows found them.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the Latmoon result. Before in 3 min gooes to 150 - 160ms (highest) sometimes. I'll also run it for 1 hour.
> 
> 
> 
> And also disabled from bios
> 
> Execute Disable Bit
> SMART Status Check
> CPU Spread Spectrum
> C1...
> 
> Also noticed my GPU runs 3-4C cooler - I don't know is there any connection between them. It always run 37-38C on desktop, now 33C


So is it easier to control now air bf4 ?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I'll test soon, but I can say I can feel difference even on desktop.

Here is 23min result - most of the time shows 7-8ms - Before it always jump to 30- 16 - 50 - 20 -100; now looks better and more stable.



Disable Asmedia Controller from bios and remove asmedia craps; if left in windows (if you installed before)


----------



## ranseed

Anyone feel a difference in mouse movement when their NVIDIA card is in MSI mode?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> Anyone feel a difference in mouse movement when their NVIDIA card is in MSI mode?


Nvidia in MSI mode causing crashes and such, don't use it. only laptops using it.


----------



## ranseed

Crashes from what exactly? I haven't had any yet.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I'll test soon, but I can say I can feel difference even on desktop.
> 
> Here is 23min result - most of the time shows 7-8ms - Before it always jump to 30- 16 - 50 - 20 -100; now looks better and more stable.
> 
> 
> 
> Disable Asmedia Controller from bios and remove asmedia craps; if left in windows (if you installed before)


How it is after 24 hrs ?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> Crashes from what exactly? I haven't had any yet.


Some weird crashes, can't explain, the game runs, after 30-1 minutes the game will crash with error. without , it runs fine.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spieler4*
> 
> Been useing this for testing and audio work for years.
> Try it out instead of high performance power profile
> 
> Optimizing Windows Vista/7 Power Settings for Studio One
> Power Profle Sets C0% = 100 and makes your cpu use max power : watt
> Might give yo a better dpc latency
> 
> This 'Audio Processing' profile disables processor idle states, processor throttling, core parking and Turbo Boost. You can go to the Power Options and deselect this profile at any time, if you want to use your computer as a low power media-server, for instance. Then, before (or while) running Studio One, select the 'Audio Processing' profile, and all is well.
> 
> To see the results of this power profile in action, open the Task Manager and view Performance, switching back and forth from the Audio Processing profile and any other. If this power profile has any negative impact on your system, simply switch to another profile. There are no permanent changes made to your system with this profile
> 
> http://support.presonus.com/entries/203607-studio-one-optimizing-windows-vista-7-power-settings-for-studio-one
> 
> http://support.presonus.com/attachments/token/ee4c35ydx8h80gn/?name=audio-power-settings.zip


I get stuttering in win 7 from this.


----------



## karkee

A week ago I bought my new gaming RIG, and I can't get it to work. Today I found out after almost testing every single thing you can imagine. Even swapping motherboard, ssd etc!

Reinstalled OS, from 7 to 8, updated all drivers, tried different kinds of drivers for everything. Also did all bios settings and tests you cant imagine. I dont know whats going on but here is a latencymon run, and as you can see USBPORT.SYS is going nuts.

I guess thats why I am feeling my mouse have insane input lag, sometimes its better than other times but its like your PC is infected by 10000malware and thats basicly how it feels on windows & games.

I also bought a new zowie mouse , have an EC2 evo and the new EC-A or something whatever it was the same. I dont know if Zowie alters the USBPORT for 500hz or so but I guess its internal?

I am at the end of my rope







Gaming is out of the question for me atm, I dont know what I can do or test almost did it all...

If someone has any idea or what more tests I can do it would be nice, as I assume this usbport is the problem but why is it going so nuts for me.


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I get stuttering in win 7 from this.


hmm. what kind of stuttering ??
It might not work for every one or every pc. On my laptop it gives me better overall dpc latency. On my desktop gaming pc it lowers my fps in game a little, but makes dpc latency a little more stable.
I useually dont use this powerprofile for gaming


----------



## jtl999

What motherboard?


----------



## Conditioned

Stutter stuttering in games.


----------



## altf4

Tried msi mode in windows 8.1, works flawlessly just like in windows 7 also noticed that my dpc dropped down.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys how to activate MSI mode, is there a tutorial for this?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Guys how to activate MSI mode, is there a tutorial for this?


This thread was helpful when I was messing with it: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044


----------



## altf4

http://www.mediafire.com/download/hrxw4rsb9xnw1ei/MSI_util.zip using this program to switch msi mode, u have to run as adminstrator in windows 8.1 otherwise it's a white window 0 devices.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Thanks, also found this and applied

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=410245409

_VIDEO CARD CONFIGS
IRQ MODE SELECTION FOR NVIDIA VIDEO CARDS Verify your motherboard can handle message signal based interrupt mode. To do this, open device manager. Go to view and choose resources by connection. Under IRQ, scroll to bottom. Look at the numbers in parentheses on the bottom few entries. If they are negative your motherboard supports MSI-mode.

If it supports MSI-mode, open device manager. Find your video card. Right click it, and go to properties. Go to the details tab. On the dropdown list, choose hardware id. You will search for this hardware ID soon.

Open regedit (windows key + R). Navigate to hkey_localmachine\system\currentcontrolset\enum\pci. Find the hardware id that you copied to notepad. Go deeper into that key, until you find device parameters. Go into interrupt management. Right click the right side panel and choose new key. Name it "MessageSignaledInterruptProperties". Inside the new folder, create a DWORD 32-bit called "MSISupported". Set the value of this DWORD to 1. Restart your computer.

If the restart fails, use last known good configuration or restore from the system restore point you created.

MSI-mode will work on most PCI-express devices such as PCI-e sound cards.

DISABLE NVIDIA LEGACY POWERMIZER REMNANTS Old version of NVIDIA drivers had a power management mode called powermizer. Newer versions of the drivers still include it in their code, but it cannot be disabled. To disable this, follow this guide. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/disable-powermizer-tested.261929/

SETTINGS FOR VIDEO CARD CONTROL PANELS Anti-aliasing adds input lag. Disable it. Use maximum performance texture quality._


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I also have External Firewire sound card which connected to PCEx card - Should I change it to? I mean PCIex Firewire card.


----------



## x7007

I wouldn't enable the MSI-X for SoundCard, last time I tried it with Creative ZXR and it has the weirdest noise you never want to hear more than 1 time, and I heard it more than 15, almost became deaf, it's like screaming that the windows volume or anything that control the sound will lower it, when it happens you need to unplug or restart computer, that is if your computer didn't freeze before with the noise.

It can scare you.

You can't tell what the effect can do for the GPU, but I'm 100% positive it won't give any performance to the GPU. he said you can do it for sound card, don't.

What does that mean ?

SETTINGS FOR VIDEO CARD CONTROL PANELS Anti-aliasing adds input lag. Disable it. Use maximum performance texture quality.

He means for the Textures Quality ? why would anyone use High Performance ?


----------



## Rty345

Ive tested HPET option (gaming and idle) and what i see on my system ( I have I7 4790k, Asus VII Hero Maximus ,MSI GTX970,SSD 120 GB and 16 GB RAM): DPC IS NOT changed very hard when HPET on or off. But when it is off , there is a clear movement of the mouse cursor (INPUT lag leaves ? ) , but reduced the FPS in games - more than that, it becomes unstable and **walking / falling**. I playing in Torchlight 2 and Call of Duty Black Ops 2 (online). In both games i feel much clear mouse movements but fps feel a little bit stutter. For example, when i fix fps in BO2 on 120 - in game show me 114-120 (walks),,its with HPET off in bios/windows, also i have stutter players ,movements online (maybe bad internet quality,but).So,its time to HPET on - i have 125 fps when i fix it on 120 in game.Also i have constantly 200 fps when unlock with HPET on vs 150-200 with HPET off.

Result...HPET really boost perfomance of your PC but IMHO add some input lag (cursor swimming a little bit).


----------



## Rty345

I read your posts guys and very confused)) It turns out that windows - bad OS for games , just because we need to finish this product....facepalm


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Ok yesterday, I did another thing and was working good (did make a windows backup) and also Installed Nvidia 353.30 (HD Audio disabled)

I did make a clean boot and removed some softwares from startup,

Evga precision x (also removed from PC - installed Asus GPU Tweak II just for fan control)

Rocket Dock

Maudio Tray Icon

and Eset Nod32

Looks like my problem is Eset. It has also Game mode but not works well. Today as you know tried GPU Msi thing, didn't help. So did back to my backup and worked well again (Eset removed from startup when I did backup)

I did play 64 players map - China Rising Silk Road - My ping was 50-60 - 2K low settings - Mesh quailty is Ultra - There was no problem. Heli control was so easy, there was no lag.

What is connection between USB ports and Eset; than I remember there was a setting about USB flash disks. As you know when you plug a flash disk or a disk, it tries to scan.... For now I did cancel it, may it be it always scans / controls USB ports, don't know. Just a stupid idea. I'll try to play again later.

If happens again, I think I'll uninstall Eset.... My firends suggested me Kaspersky. Anyone use Kaspersy? How is gaming with it?

Thanks.


----------



## Rty345

Gaming without antivirus


----------



## altf4

I never used antivirus for years lol, and never got any serious viruses in my pc.


----------



## freddycatking

So, what are good motherboards in the present? The ones roach tested 1-2 years ago are difficult to find new now. I'm trying to upgrade my mobo and CPU and I think I got the CPU covered but I'd like a mobo with at least the ability to turn off hpet. Sounds like new mobos don't like to let you do that.

EDIT: I mean, if something has like 5-10 dpc latency even with hpet on then I could settle for anything.

EDIT EDIT: what do you guys think of fullscreen VS borderless?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Ive tested HPET option (gaming and idle) and what i see on my system ( I have I7 4790k, Asus VII Hero Maximus ,MSI GTX970,SSD 120 GB and 16 GB RAM): DPC IS NOT changed very hard when HPET on or off. But when it is off , there is a clear movement of the mouse cursor (INPUT lag leaves ? ) , but reduced the FPS in games - more than that, it becomes unstable and **walking / falling**. I playing in Torchlight 2 and Call of Duty Black Ops 2 (online). In both games i feel much clear mouse movements but fps feel a little bit stutter. For example, when i fix fps in BO2 on 120 - in game show me 114-120 (walks),,its with HPET off in bios/windows, also i have stutter players ,movements online (maybe bad internet quality,but).So,its time to HPET on - i have 125 fps when i fix it on 120 in game.Also i have constantly 200 fps when unlock with HPET on vs 150-200 with HPET off.
> 
> Result...HPET really boost perfomance of your PC but IMHO add some input lag (cursor swimming a little bit).


You sure it really like that ?

HPET really had input lag.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> You sure it really like that ?
> 
> HPET really had input lag.


Yes,its true. The HPET timer has some impact - but it should be tested in more detail, the situation with FPS games proves it. I asked my friends - they set the timer in the BIOS (but not the OS) and they are fine gaming online, they have no OS tweaks, simply by default all. INPUT lag can not be reduced to 0, it can be reduced to a minimum value. In my opinion, it affects the hardware, program to a lesser extent, also the scale or no scale of the panel in NV. I mean, that's not quite true blindly copy all the settings of the guide - you need to test them with respect to your computer. For me, I found all options about power saving in bios and disable them, things what really affect on mouse response for me - ping, HPET on/off (off maybe be better,but fps lost), scaling -noscaling (need test, noscaling maybe not best variant for some hardware and games) and also FPS - 120 fps add about 33 ms delay. Also, in idle all our videocards pci-e throttle from 2.0-3.0 to 1.0-1.1 speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GnKsqDAmgY (see, you can decrease delay with dance with OS tweaks and buy superfast monitor ,but ping about 50 can broke this difference, 120 fps 33 ms+ms on your monitor and mouse+GREAT ms from your internet connection+something else=xxxxx ms ))

Also i reading the material,where one guy test input lag. Result: in most affect harware. If i found that prove link, i will post it.

UPDATE. Here is http://esreality.com/post/2640619/input-lag-tests-ql-csgo/

Anyone knows, how much input lag on Kone Pure Military Optical with latest firmware?


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I wouldn't enable the MSI-X for SoundCard, last time I tried it with Creative ZXR and it has the weirdest noise you never want to hear more than 1 time, and I heard it more than 15, almost became deaf, it's like screaming that the windows volume or anything that control the sound will lower it, when it happens you need to unplug or restart computer, that is if your computer didn't freeze before with the noise.
> 
> It can scare you.
> 
> You can't tell what the effect can do for the GPU, but I'm 100% positive it won't give any performance to the GPU. he said you can do it for sound card, don't.
> 
> What does that mean ?
> 
> SETTINGS FOR VIDEO CARD CONTROL PANELS Anti-aliasing adds input lag. Disable it. Use maximum performance texture quality.
> 
> He means for the Textures Quality ? why would anyone use High Performance ?


RIP your ears man


----------



## Conditioned

So under BIOS > UEFI vs Legacy boot
You write "I would use legacy with CSM enabled and all devices forced to legacy mode."

How and where do you force (which) devices into legacy mode? Does this work for both win 8 and win 7?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> So under BIOS > UEFI vs Legacy boot
> You write "I would use legacy with CSM enabled and all devices forced to legacy mode."
> 
> How and where do you force (which) devices into legacy mode? Does this work for both win 8 and win 7?


You're talking about two different things. What he was talking about is the option to have the motherboard 'BIOS' run in UEFI mode or legacy boot with the more traditional BIOS. Depending on your motherboard, to accomplish this, the settings can vary by motherboard. It may be as simple as a menu option for UEFI or legacy boot, but with my motherboard for instance was more complicated. Legacy boot was accomplished by specifying advanced setup mode in boot config, then 'Other OS' in the Secure Boot menu (this also required specially formatting my install drive before installing Windows), and finally having 'Launch CSM' as enabled.

Now when talking about devices in legacy mode, that is typically meant whether they are legacy IRQ or MSI mode. This is covered well over at http://www.overclock.net/t/1550666/usb-polling-precision/ (see section titled "- Increasing the work efficiency:"). I personally have settled on forcing everything to legacy IRQ mode, and being very careful to limit the devices and components attached to my computer and pick non-conflicting ports and slots when there was more than one option. This way I have very minimal IRQ conflicts despite forcing MSI mode universally off. I have found that this combination tends to work synergistically with HPET forced off in BIOS. The second-best option (or perhaps the best depending on your specific system, especially if you have multiple unavoidable IRQ conflicts) in my experience is to have HPET on in BIOS and have as many things in MSI mode as possible.


----------



## Karac

Do some of you guys have tested "CPU Fixed Frequency" and "CPU Current Capability" options in the BIOS settings (for ASUS motherboards)?
I know what purpose they serve but I have no idea if they can influence input lag.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I highly doubt they can have much influence on input lag unless they are set to very extreme settings. Personally I found those two options to help with overclocking stability and have settled on 350 for CPU Fixed Frequency and 140% for CPU Current Capability.


----------



## Conditioned

Kind of. There will be lag if the frequency changes. I generally disable all throttling etc. R0ach also mentions this in his guide iirc, just the termology might be slightly different or at least some words used.


----------



## pox02

hey i need z87 z97 motherboard that can disable all this stuff and much important hpet someone test the Asus maximus vii gene?


----------



## Conditioned

Btw what do you mean 'specially formatting'? Just during install or a wipe?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Btw what do you mean 'specially formatting'? Just during install or a wipe?


He meant the partition table of the drive has to be switched from "GPT" to "MBR" for legacy boot. To do this with the normal tools that come with Windows or Linux, you need to delete all partitions on the drive. At that point, the option to switch the drive between MBR and GPT becomes available. In the graphical "Disk Management" tool of Windows, you can see the option this is about in the right-click menu on the left side of the lower pane where you see names like "Disk 0", "Disk 1", etc. If you take a look right now on your current drive, the option should be visible but should be grayed out.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> hey i need z87 z97 motherboard that can disable all this stuff and much important hpet someone test the Asus maximus vii gene?


Do you need someone to see if these options are in the bios, or to test the settings? If I have time I just picked up the same board and might be able to dig into it a bit. Maybe.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Kind of. There will be lag if the frequency changes. I generally disable all throttling etc. R0ach also mentions this in his guide iirc, just the termology might be slightly different or at least some words used.


I'm more certain about the CPU Current Capability. Increasing it to the max 140% basically increases the threshold at which the VRM detects overvoltage, thus allowing the CPU to draw more instantaneous current, in turn allowing for and stabilizing higher overclocks. As for CPU Fixed Frequency, 350 is the highest I've seen recommended. I can't remember exactly, but experimenting with higher values either gave instability or the number simply reverted back to 350 by the next time I went into the BIOS.

And thanks for filling in the gaps deepor. I couldn't remember the terminology when I made my post earlier. For some reason I wasn't able to change to MBR partition with the Windows 7 installation disk, possibly because I was installing onto a RAID 0 array. If memory serves, I ended up using a tool off Hiren's BootCD to do it. Either way I'm a fan of MBR/Legacy boot over GPT/UEFI/Secure Boot.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> Do you need someone to see if these options are in the bios, or to test the settings? If I have time I just picked up the same board and might be able to dig into it a bit. Maybe.


i want to see if he have options on bios and i can disable those


----------



## Conditioned

Yea thanks deepor for clearing that up.

Just in case, heres a guide how to change if anyone wants it: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/26203-convert-gpt-disk-mbr-disk.html


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Does changes anything when I close unused USB ports ?

Forexample before I disabled Asmedia USB 3.0 ports from on board devices, And also disabled from USB port section;



When I plug USB flash disk to that ports, flashdisk's led is lightning but windows does not see it. In normally there wouldn't be voltage, right!?

I also want to disable front panel USB 2.0 ports which are connected to motherboard with cable (couldn't find any info which ports belongs to which selection...)


----------



## altf4

Anyone down for a help? I thought i fixed my usbport.sys lantency problems i guess not, it's keep spiking weirdest thing i can unplug everything mouse,keyboard,headphones it still spikes up to 6k us i don't even understand what's happening inside my pc lol.

40MIN of run doing literally nothing not even moving a mouse
EDIT: AND IT'S GONE I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DID


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I highly doubt they can have much influence on input lag unless they are set to very extreme settings. Personally I found those two options to help with overclocking stability and have settled on 350 for CPU Fixed Frequency and 140% for CPU Current Capability.


Yeah I have them at base value (250Hz and 100%) since I have only a mild overclock, and I thought low values, especially for frequency, could improve temperatures.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Kind of. There will be lag if the frequency changes. I generally disable all throttling etc. R0ach also mentions this in his guide iirc, just the termology might be slightly different or at least some words used.


I have a gaming profile in my BIOS with every kind of power saving feature disabled to prevent throttling too. I think r0ach set those values at Auto/base level in his guide, that's why I was asking about them.
The values should be CPU Voltage Frequency (set to Auto) and CPU Power Response Control (set to Regular).

Thank you SO much guys!

Just to abuse again your wisdom, what about applications like AutoHotkey? I use it a lot while gaming to remap my keyboard for macros. I tried to do a search around the web and it seems like that the keyboard hooks that AHK use could have an impact on input lag (at least for the keyboard, I don't know about the mouse).


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I'm not sure if you're asking about those settings or not, but my CPU Voltage Frequency is Manual (allows you to set the CPU Fixed Frequency) and CPU Power Response Control is Fast.

I don't think simply having an AutoHotkey script running would contribute to baseline input lag unless the script has a running timer. But once you activate a hotkey, it almost certainly would have a negative impact on input lag momentarily. Also, by default AutoHotkey doesn't use hooks unless you specifically tell it to or use certain commands that aren't compatible with the default method, which is by using the Windows API function RegisterHotkey(). I would guess that the default method would be discernibly better for input lag compared to using keyboard/mouse hooks.


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I'm not sure if you're asking about those settings or not, but my CPU Voltage Frequency is Manual (allows you to set the CPU Fixed Frequency) and CPU Power Response Control is Fast.
> 
> I don't think simply having an AutoHotkey script running would contribute to baseline input lag unless the script has a running timer. But once you activate a hotkey, it almost certainly would have a negative impact on input lag momentarily. Also, by default AutoHotkey doesn't use hooks unless you specifically tell it to or use certain commands that aren't compatible with the default method, which is by using the Windows API function RegisterHotkey(). I would guess that the default method would be discernibly better for input lag compared to using keyboard/mouse hooks.


Yes, those settings. Actually I don't have them in my BIOS, I have to set CPU Fixed Frequency regardless. I left it to the base value (250Hz) since r0ach seems to do the same and also because I've read elsewhere it could improve temperatures (along with CPU Current Capability: http://www.overclock.net/t/1364227/cpu-current-capability-why#post_19412218), and since I have only a mild overclock I thought it could be worth trying. My system is absolutely stable.
And yeah, I'm completely ignorant about PC architecture except for the stuff I've read on this forum, so I have to trust people way more knowledgeable than me







.

About AHK: unfortunately, remapping the Shift and Capslock keys install a hook regardless. I tried to find a way to prevent the script to do so but I failed.
Well, if the latency increase is only temporary (while you're pressing the aforementioned key) and not massive, I guess I'll keep using it.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I wouldn't enable the MSI-X for SoundCard, last time I tried it with Creative ZXR and it has the weirdest noise you never want to hear more than 1 time, and I heard it more than 15, almost became deaf, it's like screaming that the windows volume or anything that control the sound will lower it, when it happens you need to unplug or restart computer, that is if your computer didn't freeze before with the noise.
> 
> It can scare you.
> 
> You can't tell what the effect can do for the GPU, but I'm 100% positive it won't give any performance to the GPU. he said you can do it for sound card, don't.
> 
> What does that mean ?
> 
> SETTINGS FOR VIDEO CARD CONTROL PANELS Anti-aliasing adds input lag. Disable it. Use maximum performance texture quality.
> 
> He means for the Textures Quality ? why would anyone use High Performance ?


Need more system information please

*Whoops: replied to wrong post* Meant the guy with the USBPORT.SYS spkes


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Need more system information please
> 
> *Whoops: replied to wrong post* Meant the guy with the USBPORT.SYS spkes


If ur talking about me: mobo: asrock h97 performance cpu xeon 1241v3, gtx 780 lightining
Btw anyone knows more about msi mode? Is it good forcing every device that i can into msi mode or just gpu?


----------



## jtl999

Do you have any "nonstandard" USB devices? I'm talking like things other then mouse+keyboard+flashdrives. ANYTHING other then those things.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Do you have any "nonstandard" USB devices? I'm talking like things other then mouse+keyboard+flashdrives. ANYTHING other then those things.


No, this is my list of devices:


----------



## softskiller

I want to add that my system feels much more responsive (mouse in CSGO) when I leave these enabled:

*3)Thermal Monitor/Throttling
8) Execute Disable Bit*

Maybe the processor (or also Windows?) relies to some extend on monitoring if temperature on all cores is okay to reach full potential?

And if the hardware solution NX Bit is disabled, it's done via software according to the "Data execution prevention" settings window which also might be slower.

I tested disabling these settings but always went back to leave them eneabled.

You can instantly test this by just playing against bots.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I want to add that my system feels much more responsive (mouse in CSGO) when I leave these enabled:
> 
> *3)Thermal Monitor/Throttling
> 8) Execute Disable Bit*
> 
> Maybe the processor (or also Windows?) relies to some extend on monitoring if temperature on all cores is okay to reach full potential?
> 
> And if the hardware solution NX Bit is disabled, it's done via software according to the "Data execution prevention" settings window which also might be slower.
> 
> I tested disabling these settings but always went back to leave them eneabled.
> 
> You can instantly test this by just playing against bots.


Overall i can set all bios settings to default and feel almost no difference, i saw how C9 Shroud setups for the lan he doesn't even set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1, and probably plays with all that junk in bios on,still beast aim.


----------



## unph4zed

Is there any correlation to SLI increasing DPC latency?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unph4zed*
> 
> Is there any correlation to SLI increasing DPC latency?


You need to know that SLI makes it so you have the same latency as a single GPU system running at half the frame rate.

If you get 120 fps through SLI, this will at best be the mouse latency as a single GPU at 60 fps.

If you get 60 fps through SLI, this will at best be the mouse latency as 30 fps with a single GPU.

This is because the two GPUs you'd use for SLI each work on frames on their own. To manage to work together on a game, they take turns drawing frames. The first one renders frames 1, 3, 5, etc., the second one renders 2, 4, 6, etc. If the whole sequence runs at 60 fps, each of the cards actually only renders at 30 fps. The latency for your mouse movements first showing up on screen will be like it is at 30 fps.

Also note that this was just the best possible case. In reality, things might get some extra latency added on top to make the animation appear smooth and to avoid stutter.

What I wrote here was not about "DPC latency". It was about something like 17 milliseconds of real latency getting added. I have no idea about DPC latency and SLI. That would be a separate issue. DPC stuff is something low level and about hardware and drivers. It's about microseconds, not milliseconds. I feel it would be pointless to worry about that after deciding to live with perhaps dozens of milliseconds of latency added by SLI.a


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> i saw how C9 Shroud setups for the lan he doesn't even set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1, and probably plays with all that junk in bios on,still beast aim.


Funny, I was commenting about shroud's setup and the pre rendered frames. Are you stalking me? Kidding.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ckzdd/shroud_set_up_his_benq_xl2420g/cswnh5z

"I really wonder that pros do not set anything for maximum prerendered frames like 1 or 2 but leave it on default."
I also linked f0rest setting up his Nvidia CSGO stuff.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Funny, I was commenting about shroud's setup and the pre rendered frames. Are you stalking me? Kidding.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ckzdd/shroud_set_up_his_benq_xl2420g/cswnh5z
> 
> "I really wonder that pros do not set anything for maximum prerendered frames like 1 or 2 but leave it on default."
> I also linked f0rest setting up his Nvidia CSGO stuff.


I know that pyth plays 1, and seems like he cares about it, but for example olofmeister he can rape people with fps dips to 120 from 250 3 chrome tabs open+streaming (on single pc) amazing.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Funny, I was commenting about shroud's setup and the pre rendered frames. Are you stalking me? Kidding.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ckzdd/shroud_set_up_his_benq_xl2420g/cswnh5z
> 
> "I really wonder that pros do not set anything for maximum prerendered frames like 1 or 2 but leave it on default."
> I also linked f0rest setting up his Nvidia CSGO stuff.


Shroud set his pre-rendered frames to '1' in that video


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Shroud set his pre-rendered frames to '1' in that video


Lol, now that you say it and I watch the video on high resolution, I see it too.

He did not mention it - sneaky bastard!








So I did not look if it was still application controlled or changed.

Pros at twitch like olof or jw also never reply to the "what do you set for Nvidia pre rendered frames" question - but get asked a million times about mouse sens and res.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Lol, now that you say it and I watch the video on high resolution, I see it too.
> 
> He did not mention it - sneaky bastard!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I did not look if it was still application controlled or changed.
> 
> Pros at twitch like olof or jw also never reply to the "what do you set for Nvidia pre rendered frames" question - but get asked a million times about mouse sens and res.


Yeah, first thing I did was set to HD and max screen to see his settings. I recall a quote from Friberg saying "Pre-Rendered Frames: '2' Online, '1' On Lan". Cannot seem to find the source, it was on HLTV.org though.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I think I did solve finally; I did many suggestions from first page... But still laggy

Tested many usb ports, disabled some ports from bios... Still lag...

For now: _changed in 1 last week_
_
My mice G502 and working from own ram - 1000hz
Keyboard is Steelseries 6Gv2_

both connected to USB 2.0 ports
From bios Dram Timing menu - Dram training enabled
Nod 32 working - dont work in game mode - looks don't need game mode.
Nvidia GeForce experince also working - Just HD audio disabled
Nvidia Driver - 353.38 - There is another hot fix released, but I don't have problem with this for now.

As I said before, I usually play BF4 and air vehicles ( Jet, especially Scout Helicopter) And always they have lag. Most of the time I did loose air fights, or crashing. I know how to use them but lag....

Major change came with Nvidia Control panel. Mine is Turkish and also these things are techincal words, Can't translete to English. But I think happened with Trilinear thing Disabled. Here, mine looks: BF4 use just power settings as Maximum performance




I can say game is faster now. I can feel it. It always show 150-200 fps - but now it's faster and controls are really good. I can say lag is gone (I hope..) Playing for 2 days and it's ok. My aim is better, can kill enemies faster. I can go inside buildings with heli without crashing. Jet turns left - right - up - down very fast with my control. Dog fighting is simple than before.


----------



## agsz

New Intel Chipset Firmware: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/intel-chipset-software-installation-10-1-1-8-whql-download.html


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> New Intel Chipset Firmware: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/intel-chipset-software-installation-10-1-1-8-whql-download.html


Do i need to do a complete reinstallation of Windows to install it? or I can just install it on top of the older one? I heard it's also not necessary to have it but i don't know. If someone could enlighten me, that'd be great!


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> New Intel Chipset Firmware: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/intel-chipset-software-installation-10-1-1-8-whql-download.html


And of course Intel doesn't show this one at their driver downloads.
Intel sucks with their software distribution.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Are these the same;

File name: Chipset_10.0.27_Public.zip - Date: 05/07/2015

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/20775/Intel-Chipset-Device-Software-INF-Update-Utility-

What is difference between

Intel Chipset Software Installation 10.1.1.8 WHQL and Intel Chipset Software Installation 10.0.27 WHQL Download

!?


----------



## softskiller

By the way there are also new drivers for Intel Rapid Storage Tech and Intel Management Engine.

Those are not shown at the Intel download page.

For example at Asrock's site they are posted as new Windows 10 64bit drivers.

Will try them all on Win 7 64bit.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Are these the same;
> 
> File name: Chipset_10.0.27_Public.zip - Date: 05/07/2015
> 
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/20775/Intel-Chipset-Device-Software-INF-Update-Utility-
> 
> What is difference between
> 
> Intel Chipset Software Installation 10.1.1.8 WHQL and Intel Chipset Software Installation 10.0.27 WHQL Download
> 
> !?


10.1.1.8 is newer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> By the way there are also new drivers for Intel Rapid Storage Tech and Intel Management Engine.
> 
> Those are not shown at the Intel download page.
> 
> For example at Asrock's site they are posted as new Windows 10 64bit drivers.
> 
> Will try them all on Win 7 64bit.


I'm too nervous about updating Intel ME, since your BIOS comes with a certain Firmware version, you'd have to update that too I believe, not 100% sure. The 14.x series for Intel RSTe SATA/AHCI Drivers, have given people tons of issues, according to the Guru3d forums when I was looking them up.


----------



## kurtextrem

About the chipset: You don't have to install it. If you're on a nvidia+intel GPU DON'T INSTALL IT! IT BREAKS OPTIMUS!

About Rapid Storage: http://www.win-raid.com/t362f23-Performance-of-the-Intel-RST-RSTe-AHCI-RAID-Drivers.html

About Intel ME: You can update the driver without any worries. There are two things: Firmware and drivers. Firmware MUST NOT be updated to a major or minor higher version: http://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html

By the way, if you always want the latest drivers, check those links above or use this: http://station-drivers.com

By the way 2: I'm interested how trillinear optimization off improves fps?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

To be clear - you're just saying; after windows installation, don't install anything about Intel thing if Windows already found them (Chipstes, Usb drivers etc... ) Just install if needs GPU - LAN etc.

And, after clean windows installation do I need Intel Management Engine!? If I should what version for my system - X99 - 5820k

Thanks.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Ok, I decided for clean install - So I did format...

This time I installed from original win 8.1 DVD - when I pressed f8 to start from DVD - showed me 2 BluRay drivers.

One is normal - other is UEFI...

Chosed normal one. After installation, I did open bios and Mouse was very smooth and fast !??! Before it was too laggy.

Still updating Windows. Didn't install any chipset etc.

İnstalled :

GPU driver (latest hotfix 353.49)
Maudio Sound Card Driver
Intel Lan driver (just driver - no software things...)

I left other things to Windows to find. Here how looks for now and what Windows found to update


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> About the chipset: You don't have to install it. If you're on a nvidia+intel GPU DON'T INSTALL IT! IT BREAKS OPTIMUS!


Huh???


----------



## kurtextrem

@you both:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Huh???


You shouldn't install any new Chipsets. It doesn't change anything if you have one already installed. Newer chipset versions only add support for recently released stuff. If you haven't switched anything, just don't break your system.

Installing the latest ME and Rapid Storage version has no drawbacks (although as I posted, some RS versions have higher perf than others). If you want to install ME: Do it through the device manager, same for RS (if you have a consumer system.. see the links). you don't get any of the unnecessary programs.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> @you both:
> You shouldn't install any new Chipsets. It doesn't change anything if you have one already installed. Newer chipset versions only add support for recently released stuff. If you haven't switched anything, just don't break your system.
> 
> Installing the latest ME and Rapid Storage version has no drawbacks (although as I posted, some RS versions have higher perf than others). If you want to install ME: Do it through the device manager, same for RS (if you have a consumer system.. see the links). you don't get any of the unnecessary programs.


Yeah, I read that thread, and I'm using 13.6.3.1001, which seems to be the best for Z97 Chipsets as stated in the thread. I'm a little nervous about updating Intel ME, as I only installed it through Windows Updates after a clean Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit) installation, which leaves me @ Intel ME 10.0.30.1054, and in BIOS Intel ME 9.1.1.0, assuming thats the Firmware version?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> @you both:
> You shouldn't install any new Chipsets. It doesn't change anything if you have one already installed. Newer chipset versions only add support for recently released stuff. If you haven't switched anything, just don't break your system.
> 
> Installing the latest ME and Rapid Storage version has no drawbacks (although as I posted, some RS versions have higher perf than others). If you want to install ME: Do it through the device manager, same for RS (if you have a consumer system.. see the links). you don't get any of the unnecessary programs.


I get much worse results than those listed in that thread, granted I'm not using RAID and I'm using AS SSD Benchmark, I'll try out Anvil Storage Utilities though. Only changes I've made recently, is changing my Page File to 200mb - 2gb, rather than what Samsung Magician sets it to, which I think was 8GB, same as my ram.

Edit: Maybe not so much.
13.6.2.1001


13.6.3.1001


----------



## gabecubano14

Since we're on ahci drivers, what have people found to be the best for z77 chipset? i had been using these AHCI 11.2.0.1006, AHCI 13.1.0.1058, AHCI 12.9.4.1000. These are considered the best ones in fernandos thread. i'm currently using 11.2.0.1006 which is good and considered the best but it has one issue where the machine goes into sleep mode considerably slower than any other recent driver and it's not my setup but a driver issue for sure since no other driver experiences the hang. basically just want to know what drivers people are using on their z77 and other chipsets.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gabecubano14*
> 
> Since we're on ahci drivers, what have people found to be the best for z77 chipset? i had been using these AHCI 11.2.0.1006, AHCI 13.1.0.1058, AHCI 12.9.4.1000. These are considered the best ones in fernandos thread. i'm currently using 11.2.0.1006 which is good and considered the best but it has one issue where the machine goes into sleep mode considerably slower than any other recent driver and it's not my setup but a driver issue for sure since no other driver experiences the hang. basically just want to know what drivers people are using on their z77 and other chipsets.


Honestly, like I showed with the only 2 versions on my PC, results vary slightly. I don't think it's really worth testing every single driver.


----------



## x7007

I have no idea what exactly I did , but the DPC is no longer crazy with Nvlddmkm.sys now, it would always go over 1440 Highest DPC Routine execution time.

Now I can play and do anything it, it wouldn't go close to this numbers.

What I did is : Installed all the windows latest updates which were just couple days ago. It cause some issue as microsoft said about 2 files which they would release another patch to fix the reported issue on there KB.

This was the Patch http://thetechcookbook.com/windows-7-update-kb3022345-causing-corrupt-files/ ( It is for windows 8 too http://thetechcookbook.com/windows-8-update-kb3022345-causing-corrupt-files/ )

So I uninstalled KB3022345 and ran the SFC Fixer , it fixed the 2 issues I had with the files.

It is said that the patch fixing the issue is Windows6.1-KB947821-v34-x64

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3132

Direct microsoft download x64

After that I didn't have the issue, SFC /Scannow passed with no errors and I didn't see the KB3022345 in the windows update anymore.

I'm not sure if the DPC Latency reduced because of Latencymon 6.50 , but the KB Hotfix did something, it is still a 551 mb file.





EDIT: After all I changed the cpu power response control , seems it is a must to use Extreme or Ultra Fast if you overclock or don't want power savings.
HPET Enabled in Bios - nothing in Bcdedit
3770K @ 4.3 1.255


----------



## gabecubano14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Honestly, like I showed with the only 2 versions on my PC, results vary slightly. I don't think it's really worth testing every single driver.


I appreciate the response. I know that performance is slightly different throughout most of the ahci drivers. I was asking though which ones people had on their machines is all i was asking. 11.2.0.1006 is so old compared to these ones and it feels just as snappy as the recent ones. I will likely switch back to a newer one but just wanted to know what people had on their Z77 chipsets.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gabecubano14*
> 
> Since we're on ahci drivers, what have people found to be the best for z77 chipset? i had been using these AHCI 11.2.0.1006, AHCI 13.1.0.1058, AHCI 12.9.4.1000. These are considered the best ones in fernandos thread. i'm currently using 11.2.0.1006 which is good and considered the best but it has one issue where the machine goes into sleep mode considerably slower than any other recent driver and it's not my setup but a driver issue for sure since no other driver experiences the hang. basically just want to know what drivers people are using on their z77 and other chipsets.


v11.2.0.1006 tested better than v13.1.0.1058 on my system, in particular the write speeds. My BIOS had a v11 Intel RAID ROM on it, which I upgraded to v11.2.0.1527 with a custom BIOS. My best performance was with the Intel RST drivers and Intel RAID ROM being from the same v11 branch. This is with a RAID 0 array of two SSDs. If you're simply using ACHI mode, then you don't have to worry about the Intel RAID ROM part.

Note that going from v11 -> v13 drivers is no big deal, but going the other way, v13 -> v11 is a lot more hassle and can basically brick your system sometimes. So be really sure you want to upgrade from v11.2.0.1006 before doing it.


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah, I read that thread, and I'm using 13.6.3.1001, which seems to be the best for Z97 Chipsets as stated in the thread. I'm a little nervous about updating Intel ME, as I only installed it through Windows Updates after a clean Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit) installation, which leaves me @ Intel ME 10.0.30.1054, and in BIOS Intel ME 9.1.1.0, assuming thats the Firmware version?


You can update Intel ME (software) without any worries. However, the BIOS Intel ME (firmware) is something different. You can follow the thread and flash the latest firmware for your system: v9.1.26.1006.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> You can update Intel ME (software) without any worries. However, the BIOS Intel ME (firmware) is something different. You can follow the thread and flash the latest firmware for your system: v9.1.26.1006.


Any real benefits to doing so? I've always been big on updating Intel Chipset Driver and stuff, but Intel ME for some reason worries me.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Any real benefits to doing so? I've always been big on updating Intel Chipset Driver and stuff, but Intel ME for some reason worries me.


I had noticed that the ME device sometimes had an error after standby/resume. This showed up as a message in the event viewer, and in the device manager it was shown on the icon. I think it didn't happen with all versions and old versions were all good in comparison, the error only started showing up with the newer ones. This is on a Z77 board. I don't know what's going on right now as I didn't use standby in a long time on Windows. I also forgot how flashing different ME firmware versions influenced this.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Any real benefits to doing so? I've always been big on updating Intel Chipset Driver and stuff, but Intel ME for some reason worries me.


The only real drawback to updating Intel MEI drivers/ME firmware is that newer versions can cause error on resume from standby/sleep, if you use those features. I'm personally in the habit of always shutting down which I think is much better for performance on a fresh boot-up versus resuming from a sleep/standby state. Also, tweaking BIOS options can often times get rid of the resume errors from newer versions, but that takes some research and tinkering to figure out.

But in general updating Intel MEI drivers and ME firmware seem to help with system stability, especially in regards to overclocking and high performance gaming. Along with the proper NVIDIA driver, every time I updated Intel MEI it seemed to cut out some of the nagging BSODs and crashes, and I haven't had one in months now. I was even able to bump my CPU overclock up 0.1GHz to my target OC finally a few months ago. The newer drivers/firmware basically allow your core hardware to use all of the new Intel features better and just generally increase their overall stability through constant minor improvements and optimizations.

It's very simple to figure out which ME firmware is the latest and greatest for your system and it's surprisingly undramatic to update it with the tools in that thread. While you have to choose the appropriate branch (v7, v8, v9, etc) for ME firmware, you can pretty much always safely update straight to the newest Intel MEI drivers (v11.0.0.xxxx currently). I recommend using the "INF for manual installation" versions, where you simply download the INFs and right-click Intel MEI in device manager and point it to them for updating the drivers. The rest of the software is unnecessary and bloaty.

Also another note is that any time you update the Intel MEI drivers, it will revert to MSI mode. I'm keeping everything as legacy IRQ so I have to change this back every time. But many people may prefer the default MSI mode anyway.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Is there a difference between installation firstly Chipset or GPU driver? I read something like this in somewhere;

after windows Installation;

firstly install chipset before updating anything
Install LAN driver
than update windows
than update/install Sound card and GPU driver.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I don't see anything wrong with that order, but I'm not sure it makes all that much difference. More important is the Windows updates to avoid, for various reasons ranging from botched USB driver patching, to mangling of the graphical components like Direct3D, and annoying Windows 10 update nagware. Here's what's currently on my ****list for Windows 7 x64:



Particularly I avoid anything that installs any version of Internet Explorer (and have a custom Windows install that never installs it in the first place). Also I avoid Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool, but users without stout AV may be better served downloading it (my ESET NOD32 makes it completely redundant imo)


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with that order, but I'm not sure it makes all that much difference. More important is the Windows updates to avoid, for various reasons ranging from botched USB driver patching, to mangling of the graphical components like Direct3D, and annoying Windows 10 update nagware. Here's what's currently on my ****list for Windows 7 x64:
> 
> 
> 
> Particularly I avoid anything that installs any version of Internet Explorer (and have a custom Windows install that never installs it in the first place). Also I avoid Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool, but users without stout AV may be better served downloading it (my ESET NOD32 makes it completely redundant imo)


Could you make a few more screenshots to those updates that we should be avoiding? or is that screen grouping all of them?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

The rest are just language updates and the aforementioned Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool updates. There's a ton of language updates hidden which makes it look like there's a lot more than what I showed, but that screen is all the "normal" Windows updates I've avoided.


----------



## Anusha

I am observing a very high DPC Latency in Windows 10 build 10240. Guess it is because of the pre-release drivers? Multiplayer gamers might have to wait a long time before the things are good enough I suppose.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> I already removed what vantavia said for windows updates:
> _Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems_ (*KB2685811*)
> _Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems_ (*KB2685813*)
> 
> hes right about deleting those right?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Please just stop. I don't know how they do things in England, but I am not having my work associated with bizarre furry pictures or edited for political correctness or anything like that. I already update my own original post on a constant basis as situations change.
> 
> Currently I'm investigating the following Win 7 updates that all affect USB and that Microsoft seems to be removing descriptions for or linking you to the wrong KB articles for what they actually do:
> 
> kb2862330
> kb2862335
> kb2864202
> kb2868038
> *kb2884256*
> kb2786081


have you heard of those? *@VolsAndJezuz*

Edit: out of those quoted windows update,
I'm assuming you have never heard of kb2884256 and KB2685811 / KB2685813 cuz it seems they don't appear on your list.


----------



## agsz

Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)
Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)

Pretty sure those are necessary for somethings, can't remember what..I always did those.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I have KB2884256, KB2786081, KB2868038 and KB2862335 installed without issue. I don't think those have much of a particular effect on USB as r0ach purported. They have just been known to give some users trouble in the past is why they are sometimes avoided.

I also have KB2685811, KB2685813, and KB2864202/KB2862330 (same thing, one is just a reissued version) installed, which do actually effect USB, but I found that I actually had better USB polling with them installed. But they are again more updates that have causes BSOD/Windows errors for some users.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I have KB2884256, KB2786081, KB2868038 and KB2862335 installed without issue. I don't think those have much of a particular effect on USB as r0ach purported. They have just been known to give some users trouble in the past is why they are sometimes avoided.
> 
> I also have KB2685811, KB2685813, and KB2864202/KB2862330 (same thing, one is just a reissued version) installed, which do actually effect USB, but I found that I actually had better USB polling with them installed. But they are again more updates that have causes BSOD/Windows errors for some users.


is there a particular reason why you still hid kb2862330 / kb2862335 / kb2864202 / kb2868038 and kb2786081 on your screen? (sorry for being annoying, just want to make sure)


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Oops, I was just looking through my install history to find the KBs you listed, assuming you were only listing ones that weren't on my hidden updates screen cap. I hid KB2864202/KB2862330 initially but then later installed KB2884256 to test it out, which is actually just another reissue of those two, so they then showed up in install history. I just got confused because the list of installed/uninstalled updates is SO. LONG. KB2862335, KB2868038, and KB2786081 failed installation (would say it needed to restart, would try to install for several minutes, then boot back into Windows and say install failed and offer the update again) multiple times, so I hid them eventually. But they still show up in the history, hence the confusion.

So to clarify, I have KB2884256, KB2685811, and KB2685813 installed without issue and found them to improve USB polling on my system.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Oops, I was just looking through my install history to find the KBs you listed, assuming you were only listing ones that weren't on my hidden updates screen cap. I hid KB2864202/KB2862330 initially but then later installed KB2884256 to test it out, which is actually just another reissue of those two, so they then showed up in install history. I just got confused because the list of installed/uninstalled updates is SO. LONG. KB2862335, KB2868038, and KB2786081 failed installation (would say it needed to restart, would try to install for several minutes, then boot back into Windows and say install failed and offer the update again) multiple times, so I hid them eventually. But they still show up in the history, hence the confusion.
> 
> So to clarify, I have KB2884256, KB2685811, and KB2685813 installed without issue and found them to improve USB polling on my system.


If you still have KB2884256 installed then you also let KB2864202/KB2862330 installed right? since you said it's a reissue. Anyway thank you for clarifying.


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Particularly I avoid anything that installs any version of Internet Explorer (and have a custom Windows install that never installs it in the first place).


Can you explain please how to do so? Can I safely uninstall every Internet Explorer update and the related security updates if I don't use it (on Windows 7)?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> If you still have KB2884256 installed then you also let KB2864202/KB2862330 installed right? since you said it's a reissue. Anyway thank you for clarifying.


They're all the MS13-081 update, so I think installing any one of them will cause all three to show as installed in Windows Update history. Even if they are still in the "hidden updates" list, which is the case for me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karac*
> 
> Can you explain please how to do so? Can I safely uninstall every Internet Explorer update and the related security updates if I don't use it (on Windows 7)?


I'm not sure you can entirely remove Internet Explorer once it's installed, but you may be able to. I'd start off by uninstalling anything that shows up in the installed programs and all related Windows Updates for it that you can, then go into Control Panel>Programs and Features>Turn Windows features on or off>uncheck anything for Internet Explorer.

My strategy was to avoid installing it altogether by making a custom Windows 7 install image with nLite that had Internet Explorer unchecked from the start. Then just never let Windows Update install it and Bob's your uncle. Here's a decent guide for the various ways you can use nLite to make a custom install disk: http://www.win-raid.com/t22f23-Guide-Integration-of-Intels-AHCI-RAID-drivers-into-a-Windows-XP-W-k-W-k-CD.html


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> They're all the MS13-081 update, so I think installing any one of them will cause all three to show as installed in Windows Update history. Even if they are still in the "hidden updates" list, which is the case for me.


Alright, I just went through all the uninstallation process. And for some reason I got all of these *new updates* after I was done uninstalling everything, maybe I didn't update those at the right time and so it went to oblivion. Sorry that it's not in english.
 & 

first screen is new updates (from Sept. 2014 or something) and second screen is my hidden updates.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

It sounds like everything went well? There's always a risk with installing or uninstalling several of the updates we've discussed (and still others more that we haven't), that you could end up with Windows Updates install failures, BSODs, or reboot loops.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> It sounds like everything went well? There's always a risk with installing or uninstalling several of the updates we've discussed (and still others more that we haven't), that you could end up with Windows Updates install failures, BSODs, or reboot loops.


Damn I didn't know that. Yeah everything went well. Thank you again for your assistance.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Np buddy. I tried to give some warnings but I think it's a somewhat rare occurrence for people to have those type of issues. Definitely better to be safe than sorry with Windows Updates. I personally Google every new update KB# when I do my weekly manual check on Patch Tuesday, to see exactly what it's supposed to do, and if people are having any issues or concerns with it. And if I have any question about it, I just wait til next Patch Tuesday to re-Google and decide.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Np buddy. I tried to give some warnings but I think it's a somewhat rare occurrence for people to have those type of issues. Definitely better to be safe than sorry with Windows Updates. I personally Google every new update KB# when I do my weekly manual check on Patch Tuesday, to see exactly what it's supposed to do, and if people are having any issues or concerns with it. And if I have any question about it, I just wait til next Patch Tuesday to re-Google and decide.


\
With windows 10 you won't be able to do that anymore, it will auto update.


----------



## agsz

@VolsAndJezuz saw a post on CSGO Reddit, linking to a forum post here; regarding you finding Skadoodle's sensitivity.







Always thought it was impossible for him to have that quick of movement @ 400 dpi with that sensitivity, but how the hell did you figure it out precisely? Of course I was speaking about the rumored sensitivity.


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I'm not sure you can entirely remove Internet Explorer once it's installed, but you may be able to. I'd start off by uninstalling anything that shows up in the installed programs and all related Windows Updates for it that you can, then go into Control Panel>Programs and Features>Turn Windows features on or off>uncheck anything for Internet Explorer.
> 
> My strategy was to avoid installing it altogether by making a custom Windows 7 install image with nLite that had Internet Explorer unchecked from the start. Then just never let Windows Update install it and Bob's your uncle. Here's a decent guide for the various ways you can use nLite to make a custom install disk: http://www.win-raid.com/t22f23-Guide-Integration-of-Intels-AHCI-RAID-drivers-into-a-Windows-XP-W-k-W-k-CD.html


Yeah I instantly removed it from the Control Panel but Windows keeps downloading updates for Explorer and they are labeled as important, so I was a bit afraid to remove them.
I'll try the custom install next time I'll format, thanks for the tip!


----------



## softskiller

Since I can't delete this post, where I wrote agsz to ask VolsAndJezuz about the Skadoodle findings in the corresponding thread,

I post some snakeoil:

Did you guys, who do not use PCI cards, know that you can deactivate the Intel PCI Bridge (244E) which will also disables the PCI-to-PCI bridge.

My mouse feels more responsive this way (maybe an IRQ or PCI lane thing).

I found this, because when trying package state C6 or C7 (which I do not use) the board would deactivate them on it's own from start up.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> how can I delete this post?


I think you can't. A bunch of times I clicked on the report button of my own post, wrote as a reason that I made a mistake posting, asking for it to be deleted, and a mod then sometimes deleted my post and sometimes didn't.


----------



## CookieBook

I keep getting DPC spikes between 200 and 1000. My normal latency is ~20 but
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Since I can't delete this post, where I wrote agsz to ask VolsAndJezuz about the Skadoodle findings in the corresponding thread,
> 
> I post some snakeoil:
> 
> Did you guys, who do not use PCI cards, know that you can deactivate the Intel PCI Bridge (244E) which will also disables the PCI-to-PCI bridge.
> 
> My mouse feels more responsive this way (maybe an IRQ or PCI lane thing).
> 
> I found this, because when trying package state C6 or C7 (which I do not use) the board would deactivate them on it's own from start up.


Wouldn't this deactivate your GPU?


----------



## softskiller

Only PCI slots not PCI express.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> I already removed what vantavia said for windows updates: Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685811)
> Update for User-Mode Driver Framework version 1.11 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2685813)
> 
> hes right about deleting those right?


Yea, those are optional updates that automatically get installed with certain drivers. I recall Soundblaster Z drivers installing one of them.


----------



## agsz

What version NVIDIA Driver is everyone using now? I'm personally still on 344.11, I did see this image somewhere, not sure how credible it is.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What version NVIDIA Driver is everyone using now? I'm personally still on 344.11, I did see this image somewhere, not sure how credible it is.


350.12, the GTA V driver is good. I haven't liked any of the other newer ones besides 344.11 and 344.16.

I'm about to install Win 10 RTM right now to test it. You have to do an upgrade from Win7/Win8 to Win 10 first to get a free license, then you have to clean install afterwards, so its' kind of a pain.

i also read that execute disable bit is required to be turned on to install it. Microsoft also said it's a requirement for Windows 8, but the OS works fine for me with it off, so not sure.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 350.12, the GTA V driver is good. I haven't liked any of the other newer ones besides 344.11 and 344.16.
> 
> I'm about to install Win 10 RTM right now to test it. You have to do an upgrade from Win7/Win8 to Win 10 first to get a free license, then you have to clean install afterwards, so its' kind of a pain.
> 
> i also read that execute disable bit is required to be turned on to install it. Microsoft also said it's a requirement for Windows 8, but the OS works fine for me with it off, so not sure.


I tried 350.12 when it came out, due to 344.11 giving me black striped characters. I installed 347.88 just now, doesn't seem any different than 344.11 yet. Is 100% accurate way of testing drivers to compare which is better, rather than judging off possible placebo? Also, r0ach; just curious why you like 344.11/344.16 more than the newer ones. I do as well, but just can't seem to put it into words


----------



## Huzzaa

Well, I just fiddled with my audio a bit and decided to test mouse response by removing it completely and it's god awesome and much better with onboard enabled which is... well, not too surprising.

Only downside is I can't get proper sound out of it when listening to some good FLAC files, whereeas before I heard a lil bit extra instruments playing at times, I no longer do.

Any reccomendation about an audio card that doesn't have major DPC issues as the Xonar DX? I'm just interested in a very good DAC, not the fancy crap DSP that come with it.


----------



## Huzzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I tried 350.12 when it came out, due to 344.11 giving me black striped characters. I installed 347.88 just now, doesn't seem any different than 344.11 yet. Is 100% accurate way of testing drivers to compare which is better, rather than judging off possible placebo? Also, r0ach; just curious why you like 344.11/344.16 more than the newer ones. I do as well, but just can't seem to put it into words


I'm on 347.09 beta, and it's awesome. IIRC r0ach reccomended it himself. I'm curious as to why the sudden drop off from supporting that number? The WHQL version is **** though, beta is good.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> I'm on 347.09 beta, and it's awesome. IIRC r0ach reccomended it himself. I'm curious as to why the sudden drop off from supporting that number? The WHQL version is **** though, beta is good.


Back to 344.11. Immediately after launching CS:GO using 347.88, my mouse felt like I had Mouse Acceleration ON. I still did the same slightly less than a 270° degree turn, when swiping from left to right on my mousepad, maybe even a few degrees less than normal. But overall, my mouse fells like I had raised my sensitivity by .3-.5, and of course I played an ESEA pug to test it out, so I had to play the entire game with those drivers, since 2 minutes isn't enough time to uninstall and reinstall, and get back in the server


----------



## CookieBook

347.52 feels identical to 344.11 IMO.


----------



## x7007

I've found couple of things.

You can choose what you want to install so it won't auto download it.

you can change it from

First, open group policy editor, Start -> Run -> gpedit.msc
Look for Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update

Go to "Configure Automatic Updates"
Either choose "Disabled", or what I did, choose "Enabled" and option 2 : Notify for download and notify for install.
This should stop the auto download and install updates.

Then next up, download this :
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
I know it says for Insider Preview, but it works on my RTM.

Now from now on, you always run that app first BEFORE you run Windows Update!!!
It will check for updates, will show you which updates there are, and you can select those which you want to hide. Once hidden, you can go to the normal windows update like you always do, and they shouldn't display anymore.

I had a weird issue in the beginning however, it didn't work completely, until I installed one update, removed it again, then did the above procedure again, then everything worked, just saying. Should work from first time however.

Good luck.

PS.: If you're on of those people who like cleaning their C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download dir, remember, after doing that, you're going to have to re-hide all the updates yet again.

the second thing I had an issue with 13.x RST drivers and so are everyone with Z77 and Z97 motherboards that if you have hardisks or SSD , USB External HDD or even DOK then Windows 10 would make clicking sound every seconds and it will seem that the hardisks are going sleep when Idle which killed people hardisks because of massive turning on/off spin. it happens without and with Raid.

You can check if you have APM enabled from AIDA64 or just use the following programs

I've found 2 programs that disable the APM without raid and with Raid.

NoAPM - you just run it and it disable APM automatically
CrystalDiskInfo

If you need help with that ask or you can google it's easy


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> 347.52 feels identical to 344.11 IMO.


I'm just concerned about drivers changing how my mouse feels. I'm only trying out different drivers, because I get massive frame lag with a smoke on my screen in CS:GO, while playing on 1920x1080. Valve broke smoke grenades this past Winter, prior to some updates affecting smokes, I had no FPS issues with them even with my old 750Ti. I'm not sure if a certain driver will help, or if I need to OC it slightly


----------



## Zero4549

Audio devices will always be latency intensive. It is the nature of audio processing, which must be done as close to real time as possible to be even moderately acceptable to human hearing, and must be done constantly.

I suppose if you absolutely hate yourself, you can run with no audio, but otherwise your best bet is to just get a half decent DAC that you enjoy for its audio qualities and not really worry about the borderline placebo effects it has on your mouse movements.If everything else is fairly optimized, a sound card or external DAC alone won't explode your mouse.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Well, I just fiddled with my audio a bit and decided to test mouse response by removing it completely and it's god awesome and much better with onboard enabled which is... well, not too surprising.
> 
> Only downside is I can't get proper sound out of it when listening to some good FLAC files, whereeas before I heard a lil bit extra instruments playing at times, I no longer do.
> 
> Any reccomendation about an audio card that doesn't have major DPC issues as the Xonar DX? I'm just interested in a very good DAC, not the fancy crap DSP that come with it.


Did you try the 3rd party drivers low-dpc version?

the ones from brainbit


----------



## agsz

Random question, since I saw people discussing this: Is there any need to update 'Intel(R) 4th Gen Core processor DRAM Controller - 0C00' and the few others in System Devices, that have drivers/firmware from 2006? I think adding -overall to Intel Chipset Software would update it, but a lot of people advise against doing so.


----------



## Huzzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Did you try the 3rd party drivers low-dpc version?
> 
> the ones from brainbit


I had Uni Xonar one.
What's the difference with Brainbit? I haven't actually tried those. Makes me think of puttin my card back in







.

Thing is that onboard has no DPC spikes at all.

I'm on 15-28 or so but with Uni Xonar, it had a random 150-220 which I didn't really make a fuzz out of until I uninstalled it and actually felt the difference.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> I had Uni Xonar one.
> What's the difference with Brainbit? I haven't actually tried those. Makes me think of puttin my card back in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Thing is that onboard has no DPC spikes at all.
> 
> I'm on 15-28 or so but with Uni Xonar, it had a random 150-220 which I didn't really make a fuzz out of until I uninstalled it and actually felt the difference.


Uni-xonar is brainbit, did you try the newest ones? i havent used my dx for some years now so i wouldent know


----------



## Huzzaa

Yes. I did. Then well. Don't know. Could be a simple problem with the card or not a real issue to actually begin with.

Any idea how the external dacs affect latency? Not usb but perhaps spdif.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Yes. I did. Then well. Don't know. Could be a simple problem with the card or not a real issue to actually begin with.
> 
> Any idea how the external dacs affect latency? Not usb but perhaps spdif.


I have an Asus Xonar DGX, and I tried the UNi Xonar (Low Latency), ASUS.com, and Xonar DGX CD Drivers. All of them still caused CS:GO to run like complete crap, dropping fps by 50%, and making it run extremely choppy. Let a friend try the card, he had the same issue..


----------



## Jalkion

My motherboard (ASUS Z87-Pro) does not have any USB 2.0 ports at the back I/O panel, I wonder if buying a PCI USB 2.0 expansion card or a Front Panel that connects straight to the USB 2.0 connectors on the motherboard, will be fine, I do suspect the PCI board will add more latency than the front panel option?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalkion*
> 
> My motherboard (ASUS Z87-Pro) does not have any USB 2.0 ports at the back I/O panel, I wonder if buying a PCI USB 2.0 expansion card or a Front Panel that connects straight to the USB 2.0 connectors on the motherboard, will be fine, I do suspect the PCI board will add more latency than the front panel option?


You can also get slot panel stuff for the back that will connect to those headers on the motherboard, not just stuff for the front of the case.

*EDIT:* look at the search results of "usb 2.0 motherboard adapter slot panel" on amazon.com as an example


----------



## pox02

someone check 990fx ud3 looks old uefi and possible disable everything


----------



## rivage

Alright Windows 10 getting released, can we have a r0ach guide of some sort for Windows 10 solely?


----------



## Kyube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Alright Windows 10 getting released, can we have a r0ach guide of some sort for Windows 10 solely?


He said he's testing it, gotta wait for a few days/weeks.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> He said he's testing it, gotta wait for a few days/weeks.


Sure that makes sense. I actually just wanted to know if it was in progress.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I did upgrade to Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. All settings the same with win 8.1 as I set before.

But I did check Device manager and it updated - no Intel chipset thing, everything found by windows. And I can say works better. Played 64 persons map and there was no lag.



I had to update only Nvidia Driver - Installed 353.62 manually

But It found my Firewire card and Firewire Sound Card - I think used Win 8.1 drivers.

But there is no problem.


----------



## agsz

How long does it take to update? And is it worth it? Currently on Win 7 Ultimate (Pirated), and didn't install any pre-requisites.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Alright Windows 10 getting released, can we have a r0ach guide of some sort for Windows 10 solely?


There's a lot of stuff to work through. For example, the Nvidia driver MS installed by default set the PhysX section under Nvidia control panel to "CPU" for some unknown reason, when it's always been "auto select" in the past. Windows also automatically installs the Nvidia HDMI audio driver, which is historically higher lag than just the default Windows driver. There's just a ton of little things Win 10 is doing differently, and then bigger things like forced Windows updates. It will take a while to sort through all of this.

Even Windows Defender is harder to get rid of now. It might require a program like "autoruns" to try and get rid of all of it's related features. I haven't had enough time to look into it all yet.

edit: I didn't do the clean install yet, just the upgrade in order to get the new key, but cursor movement has a lot more weight to it than Win 8.1 so far, even after disabling a lot of stuff. Maybe it will be different on a clean install, but I don't think it will. I did not like Nvidia drivers after 350.12 on Win 8.1 so that might be another reason. The cursor is definitely heavier so far though with my limited Win 10 experience...

If you force Win Defender off with registry settings (can't really get rid of it any other way), you get notifications every 10 minutes about virus protection. MS is really going the wrong direction with this nanny state OS. Whether it can be salvaged or not we'll see:


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> There's a lot of stuff to work through. For example, the Nvidia driver MS installed by default set the PhysX section under Nvidia control panel to "CPU" for some unknown reason, when it's always been "auto select" in the past. Windows also automatically installs the Nvidia HDMI audio driver, which is historically higher lag than just the default Windows driver. There's just a ton of little things Win 10 is doing differently, and then bigger things like forced Windows updates. It will take a while to sort through all of this.
> 
> Even Windows Defender is harder to get rid of now. It might require a program like "autoruns" to try and get rid of all of it's related features. I haven't had enough time to look into it all yet.
> 
> edit: I didn't do the clean install yet, just the upgrade in order to get the new key, but cursor movement has a lot more weight to it than Win 8.1 so far, even after disabling a lot of stuff. Maybe it will be different on a clean install, but I don't think it will. I did not like Nvidia drivers after 350.12 on Win 8.1 so that might be another reason. The cursor is definitely heavier so far though with my limited Win 10 experience...
> 
> If you force Win Defender off with registry settings (can't really get rid of it any other way), you get notifications every 10 minutes about virus protection. MS is really going the wrong direction with this nanny state OS. Whether it can be salvaged or not we'll see:


Jesus, that sucks big time, especially for the WinDef part... hopefully we can figure this out.


----------



## leakydog

I upgraded to Win10 (clear installation) and recommend turn this off.



It caused a lot of crackling sounds and dropouts in sound (youtube video in chrome) during launching some other applications. Now it is much better.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> How long does it take to update? And is it worth it? Currently on Win 7 Ultimate (Pirated), and didn't install any pre-requisites.


I think it's pretty fair to say that Win7 users should actually wait a bit to upgrade and as a W7 user that's exactly what I'm doing. Waiting for r0ach to make the guide.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> I think it's pretty fair to say that Win7 users should actually wait a bit to upgrade and as a W7 user that's exactly what I'm doing. Waiting for r0ach to make the guide.


Yeah seems fair, seen a lot of forum threads about issues. Seems that Win 8.1 vs 10 benchmarks are the same, only VGA onboard got a boost. I'm just looking for anything to fix this issue:


----------



## Shambles1980

Went from 7 to 10 and 10 is faster and i gained a few fps in games "could be new drivers though"
Not convinced by the new start bar but apart from that it seems pretty nice. snappy. and everything just works as it used too under 7.
I had already uninstalled windows 8 by now when i had that. so im thinking its really not bad at all, and will just take some getting used too.

Update does not take long at all. but if you had a pirated windows 7 then it will still have you as non authenticated windows user any way. so it could cause issues some where but i dont think they are too worried about piracy of the os any more, Things like the games "solitair" needing you to log on and make a gamer tag to play and connect to xbox live so will eventually need a subscription probably "already has an upgrade to premium option". and there are small adds when you finish a game so this will be the way they get more money than they did before.
it will also eventually show them who used to pirate windows as well i guess. via data mining. because it all seems to end up locked to an email address now.


----------



## r0ach

The best cursor movement and accuracy is probably still found on Win XP, which is probably why it looked like Logitech had super old Windows installs running software in their test environment.

See
|
|
|
\/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> There was honestly more to be excited about going from Win 7 to Win 8 than Win 8 to Win 10 for people who are into mouse stuff. Win 7 had big UI acceleration regressions that WIn 8 fixed. Win 8 did bring in the heavy composition though, so if you want the friskiest and most accurate cursor movement, it's probably still found on XP.. I think 2d primitives were also accelerated without going through a heavy and bloated Nvidia driver stack back then. Now each Nvidia driver you use will cause a large change to thre response of the UI, but it didn't seem to back then.
> .


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> There's a lot of stuff to work through. For example, the Nvidia driver MS installed by default set the PhysX section under Nvidia control panel to "CPU" for some unknown reason, when it's always been "auto select" in the past. Windows also automatically installs the Nvidia HDMI audio driver, which is historically higher lag than just the default Windows driver. There's just a ton of little things Win 10 is doing differently, and then bigger things like forced Windows updates. It will take a while to sort through all of this.
> 
> Even Windows Defender is harder to get rid of now. It might require a program like "autoruns" to try and get rid of all of it's related features. I haven't had enough time to look into it all yet.
> 
> edit: I didn't do the clean install yet, just the upgrade in order to get the new key, but cursor movement has a lot more weight to it than Win 8.1 so far, even after disabling a lot of stuff. Maybe it will be different on a clean install, but I don't think it will. I did not like Nvidia drivers after 350.12 on Win 8.1 so that might be another reason. The cursor is definitely heavier so far though with my limited Win 10 experience...
> 
> If you force Win Defender off with registry settings (can't really get rid of it any other way), you get notifications every 10 minutes about virus protection. MS is really going the wrong direction with this nanny state OS. Whether it can be salvaged or not we'll see:


you dont need from registry just from gpedit.msc you can go to adminstrator and windows compontes and windows defender . just from what I remember not on the computer at the moment.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> you dont need from registry just from gpedit.msc you can go to adminstrator and windows compontes and windows defender . just from what I remember not on the computer at the moment.


Yea, I haven't put much time into win10 yet at all. I just wanted to test out some potentially hazardous settings before doing the clean install.


----------



## Conditioned

So I just spent more or less two days installing windows 8. The odd thing I found out that even with the same iso and with -everything- exactly the same in regards to hardware and settings on hardware (even the same usb port),same disk, same order of disks I had slightly different resutls. For example I could install madvr through the .bat without rightclicking and choosing 'run as admin'. This was slightly annoying when it did'nt work and when it did work, ie when I had more permissions gw2 felt a lot smoother and I'm pretty sure I got better fps. At the very least the experience was a lot smoother (in gw2).


----------



## leakydog

Could anyone advise me how to get rid off "hiccups" in youtube video sound? It happens when I am trying to learn how to code in Python in PyCharm and during it watching youtube tutorials. When PyCharm does some background operations then I get dropouts in sound, but only in Chrome. When I play some music in Foobar there is no problem. I didn't have that issue with windows 8.1. As I wrote here before it is much better now with DOLBY turned off, but it's still noticeable.

Edit:
If I play youtube in firefox, it has nice clean sound all the time even with Dolby sound effect turned on


----------



## dezahp

Can those of you who upgraded to Win 10 show me what your DPC is like? I upgraded to Win 10 and my dpc latency is so high and have been trying to figure out why it has been like this for the entire day with no luck and starting to get frustrated. Tried it right after fresh install and after I've installed all of my mobo drivers, hardware drivers, etc. I don't know what else to do now.



My DPC latency on Win 7 was consistently at 5-10 so it's kind of frustrating. Everyone I know kept on saying how good Win 10 was so I basically bought into it and got pressured to upgrade even though I wanted to wait out for reliable drivers to come out.


----------



## deepor

You cannot use that "dpc latency checker" program with Windows 8 and later. Look for a program named "latency mon". That other program has several methods for measuring dpc latency that will work. You can change the methods in its settings window.


----------



## Spieler4

Hopefully it will not take too long to fix in windows 10, so far looking good

I havent installed any drivers, only windows defaut + usb modem + gfx
Followed page 1 and win 8.1 guide


----------



## Topkek007

Have anybody tried NVIDIA 353.62 WHQL on Windows 7 x64? Maybe it is a placebo, but input lag seems reduced... like by around one frame on CS 1.6 and Quake Live (both OpenGL, not sure how it is with D3D)... amazing?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topkek007*
> 
> Have anybody tried NVIDIA 353.62 WHQL on Windows 7 x64? Maybe it is a placebo, but input lag seems reduced... like by around one frame on CS 1.6 and Quake Live (both OpenGL, not sure how it is with D3D)... amazing?


All drivers I tried after 350.12 were bad to me including the win10 launch driver. Another guy had the same experience below. 350.12 on Win 7 and Win 8.1 feels "pretty normal" as in could be a little better, could be worse, but Win 10 with it's launch driver has a much heavier cursor feel. The 352 branch was the start of Win 10 drivers I believe.

|
|
\/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Versus2190*
> 
> Just installed 353.62 driver on windows 7, this heavy cursor feeling is definitely caused by new windows 10 drivers.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> All drivers I tried after 350.12 were bad to me including the win10 launch driver. Another guy had the same experience below. 350.12 on Win 7 and Win 8.1 feels "pretty normal" as in could be a little better, could be worse, but Win 10 with it's launch driver has a much heavier cursor feel. The 352 branch was the start of Win 10 drivers I believe.
> 
> |
> |
> \/


I've been using 344.11 for months now, other day I tried 347.88 and it felt as if I raised my DPI from 400 to 600, did you notice mouse issues with 347.88 as well?


----------



## Topkek007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> All drivers I tried after 350.12 were bad to me including the win10 launch driver. Another guy had the same experience below. 350.12 on Win 7 and Win 8.1 feels "pretty normal" as in could be a little better, could be worse, but Win 10 with it's launch driver has a much heavier cursor feel. The 352 branch was the start of Win 10 drivers I believe.
> 
> |
> |
> \/


Perhaps it depends on the GPU series, feature sets, mine is MSI 760 OC. By the way, I have HPET on on BIOS and windows (bcdedit /set useplatformclock true, bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock to revert if first one has actually changed something) (well, are not you against HPET and have it turned off?) For me HPET off is like a walk-around, not a solution. (Well, less precise timer = longer intervals between calls? less inconsistency? (less stutters?))

Oh well, at least I guess I enjoy them!







By the way, I was somewhat in the part of this "mouse feeling" asylum, had installed ~40 NVIDIA drivers, so far these in-game (CS 1.6, Quake Live both games G-Sync (disabled under exclusive NVCP G-Sync menu), V-Sync off, by the way, I play with ULMB @ 100 Hz) seems to be miraculous.









PS: Well, you were pretty pessimistic about my opinion (research or whatever), were not you? Hardware differs, so does "bull****", no?


----------



## freddycatking

Speaking of drivers, the recent AMD drivers claim to reduce input lag in CSGO and other games. I'm installing it right now.


----------



## Topkek007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> Speaking of drivers, the recent AMD drivers claim to reduce input lag in CSGO and other games. I'm installing it right now.


Would be nice to hear your experience with them! (Wish I had AMD ATI GPU?







)


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys I think I found my problem...

I really get crazy, sometimes work sometimes not... So what could it be!?!?

This is my third OS - Windows 7 - Windows 8.1 and Windows 10

This my second motherboard;

Asus p8z68 Deluxe Gen 3 - Asus x99 Deluxe

So

My second processor;

i72600k - i75820k

and also Second Ram Kit

Gskill DDR3 1866Mhz - Gskill DDR4 2666Mhz

Used 3 different Mices and 2 different keyboards....

Almost everything changed, but the problem is the same... What could it be!?!?

So 2 things left - GPU and PSU - But I think looks mostly PSU - may it be something about USB port power!?? Just was an idea..

I know GPU has not any problem. It always finishes Bench tests when overclocked. And I know PSU has not any problem too. I didn't get any Blue Screen thigns, reset problems.

Than I remember I did change the PSU cables, replaced with sleeved cables. But the cable kit hasn't 24 pin cable. I wanted to buy it but couldn't find it anywhere, Just Corsair was selling it and Corsair doesn't send it to Turkey. I remember I wrote / asked in this forum; how can I buy it. Than a guy did send me a PM - Said that he works for Corsair and he can send it me - wanted my ticket number to check (asked to corsair before) I gave him and he really did send it to me in 3 days. I wanted to pay it, but he said; it's ok, if you're happy, we are happy







And they did pay shipping money too... Corsair Support is great, thanks to him again









Anyway, I remember you can't use 24pin cables for all PSU's. I don't mean the other brands, you can't use for all Corsair PSU's. Forexample if it belongs to RX series, you can't use it for AXi series. Something like that, I did read something like this. So the problem could be 24pin cable?

I did remove and replaced with original cable which one came wtih PSU. Played in test range (BF4) Played with Plane and Helicopter (you can feel problems most of the time with these vehicles) When you play infantry you feel it but not like vehicles.

So I did open Crysis 3 - It really has big lag, but this time was so smooth. Played both games 2K ultra.

If cable connections are wrong how my motherboards worked !? I don't know. May be connections are correct but there was a pin had a problem. I really don't know. I'll test 2-3 days again and if problem comes back, I'll write again. For now looks ok.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

It's hard to say but from what information you've provided, I would venture a guess that maybe there's an issue with the 3.3V rail on your PSU, because that's probably where the chipset(s) controlling USB are getting their power. I don't think 24- versus 20-pin would be a problem because the 4 extra pins are just redundant voltage signals and another ground. From your post, I'm not exactly sure what the process of changing your PSU cables entailed. Perhaps if the PSU was originally a 20-pin and then the new cable was 24-pin, it could potentially cause issues if it's expecting voltages from those 4 pins even though they aren't wired into the PSU on the other end. But I don't really know enough about how motherboards get their power from specific pins.

I would investigate the rail voltages coming from the power supply with a multimeter and make sure they are first of all near their intended reference voltage, and second that there's not dips or surges in the current.

It would be a little bizarre to me if the GPU was causing the problems you describe, but I've seen stranger things before with computers


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I always set to High Performance from Power Settings, this time I did choose balanced and still there was no problem. And also set from task manager BF4.exe, Normal to Real Time (for CPU priority.) this time left at normal, no problem. Also set 2K ultra and opened Antialiasing 2X - no problem. Before 1080p and low settings always lag.

Checked voltages from bios and was normal - here what HWMonitor Pro shows - _I don't have multimeter to measure for now._


----------



## kurtextrem

By the way, you should install MarkC for Windows 10 again I guess


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dezahp*
> 
> Can those of you who upgraded to Win 10 show me what your DPC is like? I upgraded to Win 10 and my dpc latency is so high and have been trying to figure out why it has been like this for the entire day with no luck and starting to get frustrated. Tried it right after fresh install and after I've installed all of my mobo drivers, hardware drivers, etc. I don't know what else to do now.
> 
> 
> 
> My DPC latency on Win 7 was consistently at 5-10 so it's kind of frustrating. Everyone I know kept on saying how good Win 10 was so I basically bought into it and got pressured to upgrade even though I wanted to wait out for reliable drivers to come out.


You mention 'upgrade' twice. Try a clean install


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Looks my problem definetely solved. I did also run Geforce Experience and recorded game and no lag..


----------



## dezahp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> You mention 'upgrade' twice. Try a clean install


I did do a fresh install. I mentioned it.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dezahp*
> 
> I did do a fresh install. I mentioned it.


Did you try the program "LatencyMon" instead of the different program you used in your screenshot?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dezahp*
> 
> Can those of you who upgraded to Win 10 show me what your DPC is like? I upgraded to Win 10 and my dpc latency is so high and have been trying to figure out why it has been like this for the entire day with no luck and starting to get frustrated. Tried it right after fresh install and after I've installed all of my mobo drivers, hardware drivers, etc. I don't know what else to do now.
> 
> 
> 
> My DPC latency on Win 7 was consistently at 5-10 so it's kind of frustrating. Everyone I know kept on saying how good Win 10 was so I basically bought into it and got pressured to upgrade even though I wanted to wait out for reliable drivers to come out.


Since windows 8-10 you need to use LatencyMon and not LatencyChecker, it's been discuss that LatencyChecker doesn't have the ability to "see" the DPC from the system using the normal way, it's been updated with other monitoring system.


----------



## freddycatking

Does anyone have a list of good Intel motherboards with the ability to disable hpet?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I've Asus x99 Deluxe and couldn't find in bios. But after Windows 10, shows like this; may be you can disable from here


----------



## Kyube

Should we expect a Skylake mouse testing build from you soon, since you said Skylake might be like Bay Trail (which is according to you very good), @r0ach?


----------



## LzbeL

Is better HPET enabled or disabled? Is important disable audio integrated? I have a Audio Technica USB mic, which also has a DAC. @r0ach


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> Should we expect a Skylake mouse testing build from you soon, since you said Skylake might be like Bay Trail (which is according to you very good), @r0ach?


One of the reasons the Bay Trail mouse movement was much better than expected is because it has only one USB controller and only one USB hub running in MSI mode. When the cursor goes from a stand still to fast movement on a typical line based interrupt control, it generates a much higher spike on the controller. The MSI mode controller seems to handle things better.

I own a Broadwell Intel NUC and it's controller also runs in MSI mode, so I would expect Skylake to as well. The only problem is that Anandtech has already uncovered that discrete GPUs run slower on Skylake than Broadwell and their explanation is:

"Our best guess, until we get to IDF to analyze what has been changed or a direct explanation from Intel, is that part of the FIFO buffer arrangement between the CPU and PCIe might have changed with a hint of additional latency."

Whether that will have any noticeable effect on mice is yet to be seen.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I've Asus x99 Deluxe and couldn't find in bios. But after Windows 10, shows like this; may be you can disable from here


Most of the time it will say "No drivers are installed for this device. ", so I think that means it's Disabled by default. I have an Asus Z97-AR and HPET isn't in my BIOS either. Pretty sure it's Disabled though.


----------



## freddycatking

Hmm, the mouse difference with EDID on is pretty noticeable to me, but with my CRT the screen temperature drops to 5000, and there is another EDID for screen resolution and refresh rate that when switched on won't allow the monitor above 60hz. Any ideas? Works fine on my LCD probably due to the monitor actually being supported.

EDIT: Just picked up an ASrock z97 pro4 and hpet turns off fine, plus most of the features discussed here are toggleable! @r0ach I'd give ASrock some more consideration.

EDIT2: also if HPET is on in device manager, it's on in bios, and disabling it from device manager probably doesn't do anything or isn't so wise. MOST motherboards now will not let you turn it off, especially not any z97 mobo, but most z87 won't let you either, even if the option is in bios.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> Hmm, the mouse difference with EDID on is pretty noticeable to me, but with my CRT the screen temperature drops to 5000, and there is another EDID for screen resolution and refresh rate that when switched on won't allow the monitor above 60hz. Any ideas? Works fine on my LCD probably due to the monitor actually being supported.
> 
> EDIT: Just picked up an ASrock z97 pro4 and hpet turns off fine, plus most of the features discussed here are toggleable! @r0ach I'd give ASrock some more consideration.
> 
> EDIT2: also if HPET is on in device manager, it's on in bios, and disabling it from device manager probably doesn't do anything or isn't so wise. MOST motherboards now will not let you turn it off, especially not any z97 mobo, but most z87 won't let you either, even if the option is in bios.


I thought that meant it was off, if in Device Manager it says No Driver Is Installed.


----------



## freddycatking

If the option is not in bios, and hpet shows up in device manager, it's most likely enabled unless your DPC is under 30 or so then maybe it's not.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> If the option is not in bios, and hpet shows up in device manager, it's most likely enabled unless your DPC is under 30 or so then maybe it's not.


The option is not my bios (Z87 motherboard) and HPET indeed shows up in device manager. What should i do with these?

1.) _*bcdedit /set useplatformclock true*_
2.) _*bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock*_

Is there a better one than the other? because quite frankly I'm undecided.

my current WinTimer if that can help


----------



## freddycatking

Deletevalue is your best option but that is already the default


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> If the option is not in bios, and hpet shows up in device manager, it's most likely enabled unless your DPC is under 30 or so then maybe it's not.


Pretty sure when I did 'bcdedit /set useplatformclock true', my DPC latency almost doubled, when a friend recommended I test HPET since I wasn't sure whether it was on or not. It shows in Device Manager, but says No Driver Installed


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I didn't feel any difference between HyperThreading disabled or enabled. But it really effects performance

HyperT. Disabled



HyperT. Enabled


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I didn't feel any difference between HyperThreading disabled or enabled. But it really effects performance
> 
> HyperT. Disabled
> 
> 
> 
> HyperT. Enabled


What program is that? Looking to run some tests with NVIDIA settings and what not.


----------



## PeakCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What program is that? Looking to run some tests with NVIDIA settings and what not.


3DMark.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I didn't feel any difference between HyperThreading disabled or enabled. But it really effects performance


That's only .....5% performance difference and 3d mark usually has tests that take CPU far too much in consideration. Any game with heavy threading abilities under DX11 also had laughably high lag (Crysis 3) to the point where it's not even possible to be a competitive game. Maybe they will fix it with DX 12 games.

edit: Then you have other issues with people getting microstutter type effects with it on in some games. You might run into issues with HT on and HPET off as well.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> That's only .....5% performance difference and 3d mark usually has tests that take CPU far too much in consideration. Any game with heavy threading abilities under DX11 also had laughably high lag (Crysis 3) to the point where it's not even possible to be a competitive game. Maybe they will fix it with DX 12 games.
> 
> edit: Then you have other issues with people getting microstutter type effects with it on in some games. You might run into issues with HT on and HPET off as well.


I'm not trying to prove something, don't understand me wrong pls.

Let me ask you another thing. As in the first post you say Screen - No Scaling for Nvidia. It didn't work for me. Than I tried "GPU - No Scaling" Feels better. I'm on 2560 1440 monitor and play games 2K. Is there techincal explanation for this, "GPU - No Scaling" can be better?


----------



## eMbAh

I have a question: The "Platform Update" 2670838 - is it still considered bad? it says:

"improves the range and performance of the following graphics and imaging components:
Direct2D
DirectWrite
Direct3D
Windows Imaging Component (WIC)
Windows Advanced Rasterization Platform (WARP)
Windows Animation Manager (WAM)
XPS Document API
H.264 Video Decoder
JPEG XR codec"

So what is the controversy about this update? and does it actually improve performance or is it just an update for Internet Explorer?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eMbAh*
> 
> I have a question: The "Platform Update" 2670838 - is it still considered bad? it says:
> 
> "improves the range and performance of the following graphics and imaging components:
> Direct2D
> DirectWrite
> Direct3D
> Windows Imaging Component (WIC)
> Windows Advanced Rasterization Platform (WARP)
> Windows Animation Manager (WAM)
> XPS Document API
> H.264 Video Decoder
> JPEG XR codec"
> 
> So what is the controversy about this update? and does it actually improve performance or is it just an update for Internet Explorer?


I've always done that one, where did you read it was bad? On another note; I did a clean install of Windows 7 last week, and after installing latest Chipset for my mobo (Asus Z97-AR) from ASUS.com, 'Intel(R) 4th Gen Core Processor - DRAM Controler', does not show in Device Manager under System Devices anymore. Not sure if that's anything to be concerned about.


----------



## Curleyyy

Disabled the following:

*Human Interface Device Access*

...and my *mouse no longer had input.* Had to use the keyboard to enable the service again. Same goes with the majority of these settings, they break functionality of other things.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Disabled the following:
> 
> *Human Interface Device Access*
> 
> ...and my *mouse no longer had input.* Had to use the keyboard to enable the service again. Same goes with the majority of these settings, they break functionality of other things.


When I tested that, it didn't negatively impact anything, but I didn't notice anything positive as well. Does your mouse have media buttons?


----------



## agsz

KB3064209 - Microcode Update; Went from Optional Updates - > Important Updates now. I installed this when it came out originally, and my mouse kept spazzing out.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> When I tested that, it didn't negatively impact anything, but I didn't notice anything positive as well. Does your mouse have media buttons?


Come to think about it, I guess it does. The two side mouse buttons... ( Razer Deathadder Black Edition )


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Come to think about it, I guess it does. The two side mouse buttons... ( Razer Deathadder Black Edition )


I have the 2013 Deathadder, I've disabled HID in Services and had no issues. Where did you disable it, and do you have any media macros set to Mouse 4 & 5 in Razer Synapse?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Disabled the following:
> 
> *Human Interface Device Access*
> 
> ...and my *mouse no longer had input.* Had to use the keyboard to enable the service again. Same goes with the majority of these settings, they break functionality of other things.


You gotta be kidding me. Human interface device access is set to manual by default in Windows and *doesn't even turn on at all* if you plug in a PS/2 keyboard + normal USB mouse. If you plug in a mouse that's detected as both a mouse and keyboard at the same time it will turn on. Manufacturers started to do this stupid (and probably detrimental hack) in order to more easily support long keyboard macros being launch via mouse buttons. I've even seen 3310 mice that are detected as TWO keyboards and one mouse.

Windows probably sees these contraptions as two USB devices connected to the same port by a splitter. There's not really much of a way to test and see what kind of negative effects that has, but I'm guessing it probably does have some.

I've never once ever seen ANY mouse (and I've used lots) that didn't work with Human interface device service turned off. What I have seen is that if you uninstall the USB controller entirely, you can only have a maximum of one device plugged in on reboot when it plug & play reinstalls. If you have two or more plugged in, usually none of them work until you unplug and replug them in.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> You gotta be kidding me. Human interface device access is set to manual by default in Windows and *doesn't even turn on at all* if you plug in a PS/2 keyboard + normal USB mouse. If you plug in a mouse that's detected as both a mouse and keyboard at the same time it will turn on. Manufacturers started to do this stupid (and probably detrimental hack) in order to more easily support long keyboard macros being launch via mouse buttons. I've even seen 3310 mice that are detected as TWO keyboards and one mouse.
> 
> Windows probably sees these contraptions as two USB devices connected to the same port by a splitter. There's not really much of a way to test and see what kind of negative effects that has, but I'm guessing it probably does have some.
> 
> I've never once ever seen ANY mouse (and I've used lots) that didn't work with Human interface device service turned off. What I have seen is that if you uninstall the USB controller entirely, you can only have a maximum of one device plugged in on reboot when it plug & play reinstalls. If you have two or more plugged in, usually none of them work until you unplug and replug them in.




He said he has a Deathadder as I do too, which lists under both. Disabling HID in Services didn't affect my mouse being detected, it's possible he has media macros, not 100% sure. Any idea why after a clean Windows 7 install, and latest Intel Chipset v10.1.1.7 (prior I was using 10.0.27), Intel(R) 4th Gen Core Processor - DRAM Controller, doesn't show in Device Manager anymore?


----------



## Curleyyy

@r0ach ah, that clears things up. Perhaps you could include that snipped in the OP? I have one USB keyboard and one USB mouse. Unfortunately no PS/2. Neither have media keys ( apart from the side mouse buttons )
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I have the 2013 Deathadder, I've disabled HID in Services and had no issues. Where did you disable it, and do you have any media macros set to Mouse 4 & 5 in Razer Synapse?


It was disabled VIA services.msc and I don't have any macro binds set at all. I used the legacy drivers to change DPI / Polling and then uninstalled them. + 1 for onboard memory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> DRAM Controller, doesn't show in Device Manager anymore?


It was either a few pages back or another thread. Though I can't remember, sorry.


----------



## Rty345

Hello. How about USBPORT.SYS? It show latency about 100-150 ms. It normal or not?


----------



## jtl999

Anyone have any Z170 results yet?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> @r0ach ah, that clears things up. Perhaps you could include that snipped in the OP? I have one USB keyboard and one USB mouse. Unfortunately no PS/2. Neither have media keys ( apart from the side mouse buttons )
> It was disabled VIA services.msc and I don't have any macro binds set at all. I used the legacy drivers to change DPI / Polling and then uninstalled them. + 1 for onboard memory.
> It was either a few pages back or another thread. Though I can't remember, sorry.


Where was 'Intel(R) 4th Gen Core - DRAM Controller' mentioned in this thread, don't think I've seen anyone talk about it in Device Manager. As for your mouse not working, that doesn't make sense. Assuming you still use the DAS Keyboard Model S Ultimate, as listed in your profile, that keyboard doesn't have any audio controllers or anything. I have the Corsair K70 which has audio buttons and that's all disabling HID in Services affected, mouse worked fine.


----------



## Rty345

Someone can help me? Problem in mouse responsive. Ive tried all Roachs tricks,but this still have. My PC: ASUS Maximus VII, CPU 4790K, GPU 970 MSI, RAM Gskill F3 (9-10 clockings), power Chieftec GPM 850C, SSD Silicon Power v70, Win 8.1 with updates. When I load system, mouse feel
precisely. When im start gaming (CoD),after several matches it starts feeling as input lag (i have adsl),in other words as pointer movement with big latency, oversmooth. Also, when system is idle or when i play not internet - mouse feel normally. Can this problem have from internet latency? Thanks


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Someone can help me? Problem in mouse responsive. Ive tried all Roachs tricks,but this still have. My PC: ASUS Maximus VII, CPU 4790K, GPU 970 MSI, RAM Gskill F3 (9-10 clockings), power Chieftec GPM 850C, SSD Silicon Power v70, Win 8.1 with updates. When I load system, mouse feel
> precisely. When im start gaming (CoD),after several matches it starts feeling as input lag (i have adsl),in other words as pointer movement with big latency, oversmooth. Also, when system is idle or when i play not internet - mouse feel normally. Can this problem have from internet latency? Thanks


Does it still occur if you minimize your game/exit it when it begins happening?

On a side note; any new NVIDIA drivers that are on par with 344.11 WHQL?


----------



## Rty345

Its on 350.12 (and other, ive tried 3 version). Yes, when im exit game, cursor movement become precisely after several time

It looks like system overload by application (but i dont have any hard process in background, just system processes and steam/game)


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Where was 'Intel(R) 4th Gen Core - DRAM Controller' mentioned in this thread, don't think I've seen anyone talk about it in Device Manager.


It must have been another thread, sorry. I had a look for it but wasn't able to find it. Maybe I'm just trippen balls haha.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> As for your mouse not working, that doesn't make sense. Assuming you still use the DAS Keyboard Model S Ultimate, as listed in your profile, that keyboard doesn't have any audio controllers or anything. I have the Corsair K70 which has audio buttons and that's all disabling HID in Services affected, mouse worked fine.


Yeah, still use the same setup as per signature. Very strange, perhaps a bug has been found?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

"Intel Speed Step" definetely remove lag. I forgot to disable it, yesterday I did disable and my keyboad works well now. Before always freezing.

I also had another problem. This happens together and I always think this is just a lag, but looks like 2 different problems. The problem is; when I'm in a air vehicle (BF4) and when turn left or right looks like FPS drop. I know it's not, because when I check FPS it's normal, but game get slow down for 1-2 sec. I decided to change some bios settings. Actually dont know what are these and how will effect my system, but feels better.

Disabled - Hardware prefetcher and Adjucent Cache Line prefetcher.

I did disable these, because I did test everything before. Anyone know what are these?


----------



## shredzy

Never had any problems with this kind of thing but it got me interested.

Running a Z170 setup, the only thing that giving me latency currently is the lastest nvidia drivers for windows 10, DPC latency checker reporting 1000 u/s, same with latencymon, highest reported is 1000 u/s from nvidia driver....feels fine to me on my end, no problems and what not. Tried the disabling of HPET, no difference.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> "Intel Speed Step" definetely remove lag. I forgot to disable it, yesterday I did disable and my keyboad works well now. Before always freezing.
> 
> I also had another problem. This happens together and I always think this is just a lag, but looks like 2 different problems. The problem is; when I'm in a air vehicle (BF4) and when turn left or right looks like FPS drop. I know it's not, because when I check FPS it's normal, but game get slow down for 1-2 sec. I decided to change some bios settings. Actually dont know what are these and how will effect my system, but feels better.
> 
> Disabled - Hardware prefetcher and Adjucent Cache Line prefetcher.
> 
> I did disable these, because I did test everything before. Anyone know what are these?


Just try in last section load with optimized defaults and look how it is. Also set up in Nvidia in section with moving nvidia logo **settings by application**


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> "Intel Speed Step" definetely remove lag. I forgot to disable it, yesterday I did disable and my keyboad works well now. Before always freezing.
> 
> I also had another problem. This happens together and I always think this is just a lag, but looks like 2 different problems. The problem is; when I'm in a air vehicle (BF4) and when turn left or right looks like FPS drop. I know it's not, because when I check FPS it's normal, but game get slow down for 1-2 sec. I decided to change some bios settings. Actually dont know what are these and how will effect my system, but feels better.
> 
> Disabled - Hardware prefetcher and Adjucent Cache Line prefetcher.
> 
> I did disable these, because I did test everything before. Anyone know what are these?


The prefetcher options apparently helping with DRAM loading times.My Asus Z97-AR won't let me disable Intel Speed Step, everytime I disable it and boot up, it shows EIST being on in HWiNFO64


----------



## softskiller

But EIST is C1 C-State, while speedstep is just throttling.

EIST/C1E is set in the CPU settings, speedstep in the OC tweaking settings - at least on my Asrock.


----------



## r0ach

De-Crapifying Win 10 v 0.1 post

I did a reinstall of Win 10 to test the new Nvidia drivers (355.60). It's still not up to par with Win 7 or Win 8 and I would currently not recommend the OS. There's a heavy mouse cursor feel with it that's not on older operating systems. I have a feeling the cause of this issue might be the Edge browser and it's integration with the UI. This isn't a final guide, but here's the settings I have so far, subject to change, especially the ghetto hack to remove Cortana.

In addition to doing the settings from the Win 8.1 post located here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/1020#post_23338511

Here are the Win 10 settings I'm working with so far:

*New Services To Change in addition to the Win 8.1 ones:*

*Diagnostics Tracking Service* - Disable
*Geolocation Service* - Disable
*Dmwappushsvc* - Disable (related to the keylogging ability of win10)
*Network connection broker* - disable (I believe this service had a dependency in Win 8.1 where it was more difficult to get rid of)
*Tile data model server* - disable - This will kill the ability to use left click menu of the start menu, but right click still works (hkey_local_machine > system > currentcontrolset > services > tiledatamodelsvc - Set "start" key to 4 to disable
*Windows Error Reporting service* - disable
*Background intelligent transfer service* - this usually stayed off when set to manual on Win 8.1, but Win10 wants to keep it on all the time so if you disable it, you will have to re-enable to run Windows update

*Disable Windows Automatic Updates*:
Type gpedit.msc in the run box

Go to:

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update

Select "Configure Automatic Updates" and set to "Disabled".

*Disable Windows Defender:*
Type gpedit.msc in the run box

Go to:

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Defender

Set "Turn off Windows Defender" to "Enabled"

*Disable Windows Error Reporting:*
Type gpedit.msc in the run box

Go to:

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Error Reporting

Set "Disable Windows Error Reporting" to "Enabled"

Just in case, you might also want to change the same setting under:

User Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Error Reporting

*Disable Desktop Gadgets:*
Type gpedit.msc in the run box

Go to:

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Desktop Gadgets

Set "Turn off Desktop Gadgets" to "Enabled"

*Disable Cortana:*
Type gpedit.msc in the run box

Go to:

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Search

Set "Allow Cortana" to "Disabled"

This does not actually get rid of the background process, to do that:

Open task manager, right click Cortana, click open file location, rename the cortana folder after killing the task

*Disable Data Collection/Telemetry:*
Type gpedit.msc in the run box

Go to:

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Data Collection

Set "Allow Telemetry" to "Enabled" then set the option to "0-Enterprise only"

This setting may or may not work on Win 10 pro. It supposedly defaults to a setting of 1 "basic" if it doesn't.

*Remove Uninstallable metro apps:*
Open powershell as administrator and use the following commands:

Remove Windows Store:
Get-AppxPackage *windowsstore* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Camera:
Get-AppxPackage *camera* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Mail & Calendar:
Get-AppxPackage *communi* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove News, Sports, Weather:
Get-AppxPackage *bing* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Groove and TV:
Get-AppxPackage *zune* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove People:
Get-AppxPackage *people* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Phone:
Get-AppxPackage *phone* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Voice Recorder:
Get-AppxPackage *soundrec* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Xbox:
Get-AppxPackage *xbox* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Maps:
Get-AppxPackage *map* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove OneNote:
Get-AppxPackage *onenote* | Remove-AppxPackage

Remove Alarm:
Get-AppxPackage *alarm* | Remove-AppxPackage


----------



## Conditioned

According to ars you can't completely stop the tracking ms does in w10. Don't worry though for windows 11 they will have hidden all these features completely so you won't have to worry about not being tracked.


----------



## Crymore13

renaming cortana's folder make search unusable when I open the "start"(windows key)
I can't live without this.









and this: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3f10k0/things_to_removedisable_in_windows_10/


----------



## LzbeL

Is there any pcie usb controller with OC polling rate?

I think I'll have to use Linux ...


----------



## x7007

Don't forget the

How to use the throttling mechanism to control network performance

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/948066

Setting NetworkThrottlingIndex to ffffffff - should fix the issue.


----------



## Axaion

Im seeing no difference in the instructions here compared to the ones for windows 7, which does not and have not worked for win 8+ so far

Anyone trustworthy tried this yet? - 99% sure it wont work.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Don't forget the
> 
> How to use the throttling mechanism to control network performance
> 
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/948066
> 
> Setting NetworkThrottlingIndex to ffffffff - should fix the issue.


Does that really help? I've recently done this:


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Does that really help? I've recently done this:


The one you did in the screenshot doesnt effect at all for almost anyone who use pc.

I have 10gb connection , at least lan to lan . internet is 500/10 soon 1gb/1gb. . but testing a maximum bandwidth.without sound reached 9.5 gb of speed. Testing the same test with any kind of music or even just skype lowered ot to 5.5 gb. With the registry set it is always 9.5 no matter sound is playing or any multimedia. Should be better for online games too. The lower speed should happen no matter what speed you have if you dont chane the registry. I just wrote how drastically it can change for maximum with easier numbers.

You should also disable Superfetch service and Prefetch registry. They are not needed for Ssds.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> The one you did in the screenshot doesnt effect at all for almost anyone who use pc.
> 
> I have 10gb connection , at least lan to lan . internet is 500/10 soon 1gb/1gb. . but testing a maximum bandwidth.without sound reached 9.5 gb of speed. Testing the same test with any kind of music or even just skype lowered ot to 5.5 gb. With the registry set it is always 9.5 no matter sound is playing or any multimedia. Should be better for online games too. The lower speed should happen no matter what speed you have if you dont chane the registry. I just wrote how drastically it can change for maximum with easier numbers.
> 
> You should also disable Superfetch service and Prefetch registry. They are not needed for Ssds.


Yeah, Samsung Magician disables those. I wasn't sure if Windows 7 QoS was similar, I just formatted and set NetworkThrottlingIndex to disabled.


----------



## Rty345

So, Ive tested what recommend in the begin of this theme and this do not take much difference between what i have by default and what i have with tweaks. My motherboard hold the CPU on max powerfull position,do not throttle. LatencyMon shows what the most latency appl is the nvidia driver/kernel (takes about 68 ms), also when LM monitoring,its max latency.When i start moving mouse, the USBPORT.sys also increase latency to 100 ms. Hpet and other do not take effect.

My system: I7 4790k,ASUS Maximus Hero VII z97, MSI GTX 970 Oc ed, Gskill f3 16 Gb 1333, Chieftec GPM 850C 850 W, Silicon Power V70 120 gb, Win 8.1 with recommendations for optimize


----------



## gene-z

Does DPC Latency Checker work properly in W10? I'm getting min readings of 4,000us, lol.

I want to try some of this stuff to see if I can notice a difference.

Edit: LatencyMon is showing:

Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.864362
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 2.861476

That's with all my C-States set to auto, speedstep on, and high precision timer on - pretty much stock BIOS with some small OC tweaks. So what benefit is there to disabling all these power saving features that save you money and prolong the life of your hardware? I don't get it.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Does DPC Latency Checker work properly in W10? I'm getting min readings of 4,000us, lol.
> 
> I want to try some of this stuff to see if I can notice a difference.
> 
> Edit: LatencyMon is showing:
> 
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.864362
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 2.861476
> 
> That's with all my C-States set to auto, speedstep on, and high precision timer on - pretty much stock BIOS with some small OC tweaks. So what benefit is there to disabling all these power saving features that save you money and prolong the life of your hardware? I don't get it.


No, use latency mon. Can you tell me your Highest measured interrupt to process latency and highest measured to DPC latency?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> No, use latency mon. Can you tell me your Highest measured interrupt to process latency and highest measured to DPC latency?


I ran it again:

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 33.202035
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 3.085989

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 30.099041
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.872576

That's with Chrome open and listening to music/browsing.

I should probably mention I keep my installs extremely minimal. I literally have no background applications running besides hidden stuff like nvidia, realtek sound, etc.

*Edit:

High precision timer off
All C states disabled
SpeedStep disabled*

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 48.406781
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1.363765

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 47.165581
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.377345

Pretty funny I got higher results following steps in this guide, but I would dismiss it as a very small variable differences and see no benefit in disabling these features.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I ran it again:
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 33.202035
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 3.085989
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 30.099041
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.872576
> 
> That's with Chrome open and listening to music/browsing.
> 
> I should probably mention I keep my installs extremely minimal. I literally have no background applications running besides hidden stuff like nvidia, realtek sound, etc.
> 
> *Edit:
> 
> High precision timer off
> All C states disabled
> SpeedStep disabled*
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 48.406781
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1.363765
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 47.165581
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.377345
> 
> Pretty funny I got higher results following steps in this guide, but I would dismiss it as a very small variable differences and see no benefit in disabling these features.


Ive got 63 ms on this positions with similar tweaks in bios ,but not tweaked OS


----------



## Rty345

How it can be? Ive got 1 physical mouse, 1 more added by keyboard Gamdias Hermes.When i unplugged keyboard, it show 2 mouse.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> *Edit:
> 
> High precision timer off
> All C states disabled
> SpeedStep disabled*
> 
> Pretty funny I got higher results following steps in this guide, but I would dismiss it as a very small variable differences and see no benefit in disabling these features.


That's a bit on the absurd side, to completely disregard those tweaks based on a single, extremely flawed criterion. Also you say the results were "higher" afterwards but that seems incorrect to me, as the average times were lower. You gave no indication of the amount of time you gathered the latency data over, but something like the highest measured DPC latency while doing something as variable as web browsing is fairly meaningless unless it's over a long period of time. And still even then, there's not a whole lot you can glean from it as far the the effectiveness of a given tweak or set of tweaks. If those measurements were at least 5 minutes per run, then it is worth noting that you do have pretty nice overall DPC/ISR latency baseline numbers.

While I personally have better results and prefer HPET enabled in BIOS as opposed to disabled as recommended in the OP, I see having C-States and SpeedStep disabled as extremely important steps for ensuring stability, snappier CPU response, and consistency in things like USB polling precision.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> That's a bit on the absurd side, to completely disregard those tweaks based on a single, extremely flawed criterion. Also you say the results were "higher" afterwards but that seems incorrect to me, as the average times were lower. You gave no indication of the amount of time you gathered the latency data over, but something like the highest measured DPC latency while doing something as variable as web browsing is fairly meaningless unless it's over a long period of time. And still even then, there's not a whole lot you can glean from it as far the the effectiveness of a given tweak or set of tweaks. If those measurements were at least 5 minutes per run, then it is worth noting that you do have pretty nice overall DPC/ISR latency baseline numbers.
> 
> While I personally have better results and prefer HPET enabled in BIOS as opposed to disabled as recommended in the OP, I see having C-States and SpeedStep disabled as extremely important steps for ensuring stability, snappier CPU response, and consistency in things like USB polling precision.


Even if I took the low average improvements, the difference is numbers is *miniscule*. You're absolutely crazy if you think you need to tweak this to get a "snappier CPU" , lmao. You can do the same thing by just turning on the maximum power profile to bypass speedstep. This stuff makes zero difference and it's placebo. The only time I can see this stuff being relevant is if you have extremely high DPC latency out of the box from bad drivers or just bad hardware.

Waste of time.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Without disabling C-states and SpeedStep, the default High Performance power plan can still allow CPUs to slip into deeper C-states than C2, which yes, makes CPU response to load increases less snappy. Furthermore they can still downscale from their max Turbo Boost clock speed and downvolt from full voltage. All of this hurts CPU response time and ability to handle sudden changes in CPU load to some degree.

Not all CPUs will do this on the default High Performance power plan because the settings that affect these things are not shown by default, and have to be dug out and revealed through the registry or edited directly in the registry, and these settings differ according to the specific CPU model (and I think even differ according to motherboard chipset). That's why some people have very real and noticeable stuttering issues in games, that were very difficult to figure out and were actually related to core parking, even on High Performance power plan.

Oh and the "miniscule" difference actually can easily have an effect on things like USB polling precision at 500 or 1000 Hz, where very small differences in latencies can be greatly amplified. In my experience, dialing in my CPU scaling, throttling, and power settings along with a few other tweaks that seemed to make "miniscule" differences by some measures in fact ended up improving my polling deviation by roughly around an order of magnitude.

So no, I'm not absolutely crazy and it's not placebo (in fact it's measurable and observable directly through CPU and USB polling data collection), you are just much more uninformed on the matter than you thought. It could very well be the case that the default High Performance power plan 'deep' settings for your particular CPU/chipset happen to be appropriate for staying in C2/C1/C0 states only and not downclocking or downvolting from max Turbo Boost clock/voltage, so those tweaks have no apparent effect to you, but I can assure you that is certainly not the case for everyone. Finally, they certainly don't _hurt_ anything if you are trying to squeeze out optimum performance, so I don't know why you're getting your jimmies rustled over these particular tweaks.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Not all CPUs will do this on the default High Performance power plan because the settings that affect these things are not shown by default, and have to be dug out and revealed through the registry or edited directly in the registry, and these settings differ according to the specific CPU model (and I think even differ according to motherboard chipset). That's why some people have very real and noticeable stuttering issues that were very difficult to figure out were actually related to CPU parking, even on High Performance power plan.


You have more snake oil to sell? I must have gotten lucky the past decade+ of CPUs that respect the power profile in Windows.

Get over it. This stuff has no real world difference on modern systems. Have fun with your 500 disabled bios options to give you one thousandth of a millisecond in response time improvement.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I take that back, I am absolutely crazy, but just not for the reason you said


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> You have more snake oil to sell? I must have gotten lucky the past decade+ of CPUs that respect the power profile in Windows.
> 
> Get over it. This stuff has no real world difference on modern systems. Have fun with your 500 disabled bios options to give you one thousandth of a millisecond in response time improvement.


Who peed in this man's cheerios?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Who peed in this man's cheerios?


Funny part is nothing he said is wrong.

The only valid response you could have is "I believe that these tweaks have a more significant impact on my own personal gaming style than you seem to believe it does for yours".

Furthermore, while some of these changes do indeed have objectively measurable impacts on responsiveness, many others do not. Those that to, usually have a very small impact and only the most elite, or most self convinced, of users would ever notice. The cost of these tweaks is often, objectively, not worth it.

Subjectively? Your perception of reality is no more or less valid than anyone else's.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Funny part is nothing he said is wrong.
> 
> The only valid response you could have is "I believe that these tweaks have a more significant impact on my own personal gaming style than you seem to believe it does for yours".
> 
> Furthermore, while some of these changes do indeed have objectively measurable impacts on responsiveness, many others do not. Those that to, usually have a very small impact and only the most elite, or most self convinced, of users would ever notice. The cost of these tweaks is often, objectively, not worth it.
> 
> Subjectively? Your perception of reality is no more or less valid than anyone else's.


I'm no longer trying to argue to validity or invalidity of anything, because several of my points are clearly going over or under heads. My point was more about how determined this guy seems in being a dick about any point he makes. The sodium chloride is real


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I'm using this software (Presonus - Studio One) and forgot this when I jumped to Windows 8.1 - They did create a file an this file adds power profile. Anyone saw and tested it? I can say it's totally different than High Performance. It will auto add a setting to your Power Options "Audio Processing" here how it looks



_
What exactly does this profile do?

This 'Audio Processing' profile disables processor idle states, processor throttling, core parking and Turbo Boost. You can go to the Power Options and deselect this profile at any time, if you want to use your computer as a low power media-server, for instance. Then, before (or while) running Studio One, select the 'Audio Processing' profile, and all is well.

To see the results of this power profile in action, open the Task Manager and view Performance, switching back and forth from the Audio Processing profile and any other. If this power profile has any negative impact on your system, simply switch to another profile. There are no permanent changes made to your system with this profile._

http://support.presonus.com/entries/203607-Studio-One-Optimizing-Windows-Vista-7-Power-Settings-for-Studio-One

This document describes how to change advanced power settings to eliminate dropouts, pops, clicks, and other issues that can occur while a USB or FireWire audio interface is connected to a PC running Windows 7 or 8.

http://support.presonus.com/entries/21365404-Windows-Vista-7-and-8-Advanced-Power-Options-Settings

For win 8.1 says run as admin. But I did run in normally anda added. When I choose, I can say fans work at full speed. They don't work like this with High Performance

When u set it to Audio Processing looks like this;



Than I switched to High Performance



So if I understand true - if you set intel speed step enabled in bios, this profile remove it when working, than you can back your balanced profile after gaming.


----------



## freddycatking

The reason HPET isn't working for gene-z is because he has an asus board and can't disable it.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> The reason HPET isn't working for gene-z is because he has an asus board and can't disable it.


If you're that interested, you can see here that my board does have a toggle for HPET:
https://www.manualowl.com/m/Asus/MAXIMUS-IV-GENE-Z/Manual/262985?page=109

Edit: Some more testing with *balanced power profile enabled in Windows and stock bios settings* minus a few OC tweaks for voltage offset (more power saving features enabled, ironically). I ran this test, as someone mentioned, some of these tweaks also can improve USB polling over stock settings:

Zowie FK1 results at 1000hz:


----------



## freddycatking

Go to device manager > system devices, and look for High Precision Event Timer. If it even shows up, it is on in bios and you can't turn it off. My old asus board also had a switch that didn't actually turn off hpet.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> Go to device manager > system devices, and look for High Precision Event Timer. If it even shows up, it is on in bios and you can't turn it off. My old asus board also had a switch that didn't actually turn off hpet.


Seems to be working fine for me.









HPET on - http://i.imgur.com/4dc86OM.jpg
HPET off - http://i.imgur.com/4KmV0O8.jpg


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> Go to device manager > system devices, and look for High Precision Event Timer. If it even shows up, it is on in bios and you can't turn it off. My old asus board also had a switch that didn't actually turn off hpet.


I thought if it shows in Device Manager, but says 'No driver found for this device' and you get an error when turning it off through Command Prompt, it means it's off?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Seems to be working fine for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HPET on - http://i.imgur.com/4dc86OM.jpg
> HPET off - http://i.imgur.com/4KmV0O8.jpg


Could you tell me what it says when HPET is on, and you open HPET properties in Device Manager? Curious if it still says 'No driver found for this device'.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I thought if it shows in Device Manager, but says 'No driver found for this device' and you get an error when turning it off through Command Prompt, it means it's off?
> Could you tell me what it says when HPET is on, and you open HPET properties in Device Manager? Curious if it still says 'No driver found for this device'.


Yes, it does say 'No driver found for this device'. The driver tab does show something is installed, though. And doing an online update search returns "The best driver is already installed".


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Yes, it does say 'No driver found for this device'. The driver tab does show something is installed, though. And doing an online update search returns "The best driver is already installed".


Hmm.. even though when I go to turn HPET off through Command Prompt, it gives me an error, this might mean that HPET is infact, enabled by default on my Asus Z97-AR?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I ran this test, as someone mentioned, some of these tweaks also can improve USB polling over stock settings:
> 
> Zowie FK1 results at 1000hz:


Victory?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Victory?


It's not about winning or losing, or about who has the best DPC latency, as you for some reason pointed out. The whole point is that this stuff is, in my opinion, not needed for the vast majority of modern systems. I was just sharing some of my results that prove that point. In my experience, there are no real-world improvements or gains for disabling quite a few beneficial features that I can notice in my day-to-day use.

Majority of this stuff is just people seeing these graphs and becoming obsessed with trying to get the lowest possible DPC latency, as if it's some kind of personal achievement or status. Can you really see or feel a difference in something from 3.085989µs to 1.363765µs, as you pointed out a beneficial gain of the results I posted?

Just so you can reference the metric value used in LatencyMon:

1µs is 1 microsecond
1 microsecond is one millionth of a second
1µs = 0.001ms

You would have to have 1000µs to equate 1ms.

You also cropped my original message in the quote to make it look like these tweaks actually improved my mouse, which isn't the case. Those mouse results are a from a stock bios, minus a few OC tweaks for voltage offset and default balanced power plan in Windows.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I do appreciate your honesty.

And to answer the general point you're getting, no I am not sure that I can actually tell the difference with all the tweaks I like to configure on my system. The only way to be sure would be to perform blind tests, and that would take a tremendous amount of effort to try and test every tweak. Sometimes you can only otherwise go by the r0ach "tried-and-true" method of whether it just 'feels better'. But when you can also produce repeatably improved data patterns and/or measurable performance increases, however small they may be, they can at the very least provide a psychological boost. And in this community, this aspect is somewhat under-appreciated, because as we all have experienced in games like CS:GO, confidence is huge factor in your performance. So when a tweak aligns the intuitive 'feeling better' aspect with measurable/observable performance increase(s), I believe it to be a worthwhile endeavor to employ said tweak because the least it's doing is boosting your confidence in your equipment and your sytem. But at the end of the day, is it actually giving me a physical real-world improvement? It's way too hard to say with any certainty, without the aforementioned statistical testing.

And yes, obsessive tweaking and testing to try and continually improve performance is somewhat of a hobby, and an admittedly strange one at that. But if is enjoyable to the partaker and is at the very least making other interested parties _feel better_ about their own systems and configurations, I don't see how it is a negative thing to have in the community or something that deserves the derision it often receives. There's always the option to simply ignore such discussions for the people who feel the need to prominently voice their strong disbelief and/or unhappiness, which constantly baffles me.

tl;dr A lot, if not most tweaks discussed in this forum may only be making the person feel better about themselves at the end of the day, as they will typically only provide debatably noticeable real-world improvements, but dats ok cuz wats wrong wit ppl feelin better bout themselves?

Mutual victory?


----------



## agsz

If there's no option in my BIOS (Asus Z97-AR -BIOS v2501), yet it shows in Device Manager, does this confirm that it is off? Also, can anyone else comment on NetworkThrottlingIndex and how it helps? I'd assume 10 packets/ms is more than enough for online games, such as CS:GO.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> If there's no option in my BIOS (Asus Z97-AR -BIOS v2501), yet it shows in Device Manager, does this confirm that it is off? Also, can anyone else comment on NetworkThrottlingIndex and how it helps? I'd assume 10 packets/ms is more than enough for online games, such as CS:GO.


No, since you don't have the option to specifically disable it in your BIOS, HPET is on and the cmd you picture is showing that you are not forcing HPET. Your OS is being allowed to select the timer that best suits each individual task. Personally, I find this setup to be the most performant, though there's many who will claim disabling HPET in BIOS (if the option is available) is preferable to them.

For NetworkThrottlingIndex, disabled (ffffffff) is the optimal setting, but the default (10) should be serviceable in most situations. I would still recommend at least increasing it to 30 if you don't want to disable it entirely, to give yourself a little more leeway. You may or may not be able to see a real difference from this setting, but if there is one, it's not huge. The upside of having it disabled is that you know your network performance in regards to packet flow won't have the potential to degrade during moments of high network activity. Having it enabled and set to a number means you are essentially ensuring network packet handling is limited to some degree in how much CPU it will utilize, but this is pretty unnecessary for any decent CPU you would be trying to game on nowadays, so you would in essence only being setting an arbitrary limiter on your max packet throughput. In other words, I only see a reason to _not_ have it disabled (ffffffff) if you have a potato CPU and need to dedicate all the processing power you can to game-rendering efforts.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> No, since you don't have the option to specifically disable it in your BIOS, HPET is on and the cmd you picture is showing that you are not forcing HPET. Your OS is being allowed to select the timer that best suits each individual task. Personally, I find this setup to be the most performant, though there's many who will claim disabling HPET in BIOS (if the option is available) is preferable to them.
> 
> For NetworkThrottlingIndex, disabled (ffffffff) is the optimal setting, but the default (10) should be serviceable in most situations. I would still recommend at least increasing it to 30 if you don't want to disable it entirely, to give yourself a little more leeway. You may or may not be able to see a real difference from this setting, but if there is one, it's not huge. The upside of having it disabled is that you know your network performance in regards to packet flow won't have the potential to degrade during moments of high network activity. Having it enabled and set to a number means you are essentially ensuring network packet handling is limited to some degree in how much CPU it will utilize, but this is pretty unnecessary for any decent CPU you would be trying to game on nowadays, so you would in essence only being setting an arbitrary limiter on your max packet throughput. In other words, I only see a reason to _not_ have it disabled (ffffffff) if you have a potato CPU and need to dedicate all the processing power you can to game-rendering efforts.


Is there any type of program/test I can run to see the difference while playing CS:GO? My game tends to micro-stutter when I peak out and there's people on my screen, or when I'm in combat and I'm spraying someone, it's like my client is out of sync with the server and recoil will feel really off.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Is there any type of program/test I can run to see the difference while playing CS:GO? My game tends to micro-stutter when I peak out and there's people on my screen, or when I'm in combat and I'm spraying someone, it's like my client is out of sync with the server and recoil will feel really off.


What are your interp and other network settings in CS:GO? You can run some ping tests to see how much general jitter your connection has, but it isn't entirely equal to CS:GO network conditions because of TCP versus UDP differences. Micro-stuttering is usually not a network related phenomenon unless you are seeing people actually teleporting (even small amounts) too.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> What are your interp and other network settings in CS:GO? You can run some ping tests to see how much general jitter your connection has, but it isn't entirely equal to CS:GO network conditions because of TCP versus UDP differences. Micro-stuttering is usually not a network related phenomenon unless you are seeing people actually teleporting (even small amounts) too.


My interp settings/rates are on point, I don't have much jitter when I use Pingtest and stuff, maybe 1ms-2ms. When I use PingPlotter it shows much more Jitter, but my Modem might block ICMP packets


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> My interp settings/rates are on point, I don't have much jitter when I use Pingtest and stuff, maybe 1ms-2ms. When I use PingPlotter it shows much more Jitter, but my Modem might block ICMP packets


If it was blocking ICMP packets, then you wouldn't be able to do ping tests. Sounds to be like it's an issue with CPU or GPU and not network. Could be a lot of things, but the most common culprits it would seem are things like core parking and energy saving features on the CPU, GPU, or even some mobos.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> If it was blocking ICMP packets, then you wouldn't be able to do ping tests. Sounds to be like it's an issue with CPU or GPU and not network. Could be a lot of things, but the most common culprits it would seem are things like core parking and energy saving features on the CPU, GPU, or even some mobos.


Those are all off; I use XMP for ram timings and it also changes CPU Core Ratio => Sync All Cores, which helps keeps FPS stable from what I've tested. I have an i7-4790k + GTX 770 2GB (Reference Card), I was debating on using a tweaked BIOS so the clock speeds are similar to those of the GTX 770 Superclocked by ASUS/MSI/EVGA, but I don't think it's a hardware issue.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Yeah I don't think XMP RAM timing or synching cores would be the cause. I use a custom BIOS that the kind soul Cyclops made for me.

I asked him to make it force max voltage for my card (which is higher than you can set it to with a non-modded BIOS) at all times, so it will never downvolt. He also made it so that it would never downclock from the Boost clock in P2 power state (which I force on with NVIDIA Inspector). He also had the BIOS unlock 100% max fan and increased the TDP so it can use more power if needed. These are very aggressive measures but essentially has completely disabled all the power saving features for my GPU.

You don't have to use such an aggressive modded BIOS, but do try forcing specific clock speeds and voltages in NVIDIA Inspector, and definitely force the P2 power state, at least when you're gaming. You can make a script utilizing NVIDIA Inspector's command line options to do this stuff automatically before starting a game, and another to go back to normal settings. If microstutters still persist, then your problem could be very difficult to figure out.

What average FPS do you maintain and what's the lowest it dips to?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Yeah I don't think XMP RAM timing or synching cores would be the cause. I use a custom BIOS that the kind soul Cyclops made for me.
> 
> I asked him to make it force max voltage for my card (which is higher than you can set it to with a non-modded BIOS) at all times, so it will never downvolt. He also made it so that it would never downclock from the Boost clock in P2 power state (which I force on with NVIDIA Inspector). He also had the BIOS unlock 100% max fan and increased the TDP so it can use more power if needed. These are very aggressive measures but essentially has completely disabled all the power saving features for my GPU.
> 
> You don't have to use such an aggressive modded BIOS, but do try forcing specific clock speeds and voltages in NVIDIA Inspector, and definitely force the P2 power state, at least when you're gaming. You can make a script utilizing NVIDIA Inspector's command line options to do this stuff automatically before starting a game, and another to go back to normal settings. If microstutters still persist, then your problem could be very difficult to figure out.
> 
> What average FPS do you maintain and what's the lowest it dips to?


I cap my fps @ 300, so it sits at 299 constant until there's a smoke. On the CS:GO | FPS Benchmark Map, I drop to 26 fps in the smoke(s). Sort of off-topic; but I recently put my mouse into the USB 2.0 port on my computer, and noticed it feels a bit slower after playing for a while. I decided to try USB 3.0 again, put my mouse into a 3.0 port and installed USB 3.0 drivers, and I noticed that it feels like there's some weird acceleration when playing with my mouse in USB 3.0. Is that normal?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Personally, I feel and see a difference under ~300 FPS. I don't know if I would quite call it stuttering, but there definitely is some kind of degradation in aiming smoothness and things like recoil control feel affected. This is on 144 Hz refresh rate, so if you're using 120/144 Hz, then consider raising your FPS cap so that the dips stay above 300 FPS and see if that resolved your issues. Personally, I cap at 500 for CS:GO, which only really comes into play right after dying and staring into corners, etc, and just keeps the FPS from shooting up to 700 or 800 and thrashing my GPU pointlessly.

*Edit:* I just realized you said you drop _to_ ~26 FPS, not that you drop ~26 FPS in the smokes. That is DEFINITELY enough to explain your microstuttering and other issues. Dropping below your monitors refresh rate is very bad for tearing and microstutters in Source games at least. Reduce your video settings or upgrade some hardware to make sure you can always keep your FPS above refresh rate.

USB 3.0 is generally a bad idea for mice. The polling is much less consistent. I'm not sure about inherent acceleration issues but it could be the polling that makes it feel that way. I would go back to USB 2.0 ports and even consider disabling USB 3.0 implementations in the BIOS.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I just tried that FPS Benchmark Map and that is not a realistic test of CS:GO performance at all IMO. For a more real-world FPS Benchmark, try a timedemo of micronn's fps_test 3.


----------



## freddycatking

Anyone else feel like CSGO mouse movement is just really ****ty? I spent some time playing Borderlands 2 and I was surprised that the mouse felt a lot snappier, even at lower FPS.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> Anyone else feel like CSGO mouse movement is just really ****ty? I spent some time playing Borderlands 2 and I was surprised that the mouse felt a lot snappier, even at lower FPS.


It might depend on the server / your FPS, especially if you don't use rawinput. If you need any help, ask @VolsAndJezuz he has helped me tons in the past few hours.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I'm using this software (Presonus - Studio One) and forgot this when I jumped to Windows 8.1 - They did create a file an this file adds power profile. Anyone saw and tested it? I can say it's totally different than High Performance. It will auto add a setting to your Power Options "Audio Processing" here how it looks
> 
> 
> 
> _
> What exactly does this profile do?
> 
> This 'Audio Processing' profile disables processor idle states, processor throttling, core parking and Turbo Boost. You can go to the Power Options and deselect this profile at any time, if you want to use your computer as a low power media-server, for instance. Then, before (or while) running Studio One, select the 'Audio Processing' profile, and all is well.
> 
> To see the results of this power profile in action, open the Task Manager and view Performance, switching back and forth from the Audio Processing profile and any other. If this power profile has any negative impact on your system, simply switch to another profile. There are no permanent changes made to your system with this profile._
> 
> http://support.presonus.com/entries/203607-Studio-One-Optimizing-Windows-Vista-7-Power-Settings-for-Studio-One
> 
> This document describes how to change advanced power settings to eliminate dropouts, pops, clicks, and other issues that can occur while a USB or FireWire audio interface is connected to a PC running Windows 7 or 8.
> 
> http://support.presonus.com/entries/21365404-Windows-Vista-7-and-8-Advanced-Power-Options-Settings
> 
> For win 8.1 says run as admin. But I did run in normally anda added. When I choose, I can say fans work at full speed. They don't work like this with High Performance
> 
> When u set it to Audio Processing looks like this;
> 
> 
> 
> Than I switched to High Performance
> 
> 
> 
> So if I understand true - if you set intel speed step enabled in bios, this profile remove it when working, than you can back your balanced profile after gaming.


Anyone tested this, it really creates difference. Intel speed step enabled in bios. When I set to High Performance I can feel lag. When I set to Audio Processing, perfect.

I did record a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u50f_T7MU5w


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

This is why I create my own custom power plan and change all the core parking, throttling, and idle settings myself.


----------



## CookieBook

I cant seem to make my way around the advanced CPU powerplan options. Mainly because it's all in Dutch.


----------



## eelkir

DPC latency ~ 2-3 µseconds but spikes to 1000 every now and then for 1 or 2 intervals
in-game it sit at ~ 1000 when playing, but with timer resolution set at 0.5 ms it gets a steady 500 everywhere.
Recommended or not?


----------



## dahahanne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> This is why I create my own custom power plan and change all the core parking, throttling, and idle settings myself.


Where can i read more about this?


----------



## Rty345

I want ask about CPU Load Line calibration. On my mobo,maximus VII, i can choose betweeen 1-9 levels, which of it is regular? cpu on default 4.00


----------



## agsz

Anyone have any thoughts about modifying Windows 'Multi-Media Class Scheduler'? I Could see how disabling 'Network Throttling Index' & 'System Responsiveness' could benefit somebody, but isn't the 'Games' settings, for Windows built-in Games?

Code:



Code:


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile]
"NetworkThrottlingIndex"=dword:ffffffff
"SystemResponsiveness"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games]
"Scheduling Category"="High"
"SFIO Priority"="High"
"Background Only"="False"
"Priority"=dword:00000001
"Clock Rate"=dword:00002710
"GPU Priority"=dword:00000001
"Affinity"=dword:00000000


----------



## Rty345

I have some test with LatencyMon. I run this program when the game was turn to system tray. Its normal or not? When system idle, LM tells what everything ok


----------



## Conditioned

Since I figure that spying/telemetric services are determental to the performance of a machine I figured I'd post this here: https://github.com/trcyberoptic/WindowsLies. Easy way to disable most of the spying in windows.


----------



## chuNk-

I have problem with my usb polling rate. (picture is not mine but the problem is the same)

I Have read this thread and nothing helps ( http://www.overclock.net/t/1427022/mouse-kb-input-lag-need-help/10 )

I have Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A

I use 500hz and it feels that it's working correctly but mousemovementrecorder displays values between 1 and 500 if I move my mouse very slowly. but when moving the mouse very fast the polling rate stays at stable 500hz as it should. (also tried 250hz & 1000hz same inconsistency appears when slowly moving the mouse)

any ideas how to fix this?

I also noticed that my IRQ 16 is very crowded (contains: 1 usb, gtx 670, cpu i7 4770k, and one pci something?) But I haven't found a way to fix this IRQ "conflict"
Maybe because of this irq problem my PCIexpress works only at rate 8x (My mobo is Gigabyte z87x-sli)

I've applied most of the tweaks shown in the opening topic. (HPET is not available for me @ bios)

DPC latency is now great and it's around 2-30 most of the time depending how many programs is active.

Intel drivers for usb3 not installed, intel serial ata driver not installed (using windows 7 default drivers)

windows 7 + sp1 (no other updates installed)

I would appreciate any help.

THANKS!

specs:
mb:Gigabyte z87x-sli
ssd: crucial mx100 256gb (ssd tweaks enabled from http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-performance-tweak,2911.html )
RAM: 2 x 4gb hyperxblu 1600mhz X.M.P enabled in bios
GPU: Gainward GTX 670 Phantom OC edition 2gb
CPU: i7 4770k @ 4.4ghz (delidded, temps max 60-70 while playing CSGO)
Ms 1.1a (tried another mouse not helping)
monitor: AOC g2460pqu 1ms 144hz
steelseries siberia headphones + usb sound card (tested without this, does not change a thing)
dvd drive and two hdd's


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuNk-*
> 
> 
> 
> I have problem with my usb polling rate. (picture is not mine but the problem is the same)
> 
> I Have read this thread and nothing helps ( http://www.overclock.net/t/1427022/mouse-kb-input-lag-need-help/10 )
> 
> I have Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A
> 
> I use 500hz and it feels that it's working correctly but mousemovementrecorder displays values between 1 and 500 if I move my mouse very slowly. but when moving the mouse very fast the polling rate stays at stable 500hz as it should. (also tried 250hz & 1000hz same inconsistency appears when slowly moving the mouse)
> 
> any ideas how to fix this?
> 
> I also noticed that my IRQ 16 is very crowded (contains: 1 usb, gtx 670, cpu i7 4770k, and one pci something?) But I haven't found a way to fix this IRQ "conflict"
> Maybe because of this irq problem my PCIexpress works only at rate 8x (My mobo is Gigabyte z87x-sli)
> 
> I've applied most of the tweaks shown in the opening topic. (HPET is not available for me @ bios)
> 
> DPC latency is now great and it's around 2-30 most of the time depending how many programs is active.
> 
> Intel drivers for usb3 not installed, intel serial ata driver not installed (using windows 7 default drivers)
> 
> windows 7 + sp1 (no other updates installed)
> 
> I would appreciate any help.
> 
> THANKS!
> 
> specs:
> mb:Gigabyte z87x-sli
> ssd: crucial mx100 256gb (ssd tweaks enabled from http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-performance-tweak,2911.html )
> RAM: 2 x 4gb hyperxblu 1600mhz X.M.P enabled in bios
> GPU: Gainward GTX 670 Phantom OC edition 2gb
> CPU: i7 4770k @ 4.4ghz (delidded, temps max 60-70 while playing CSGO)
> Ms 1.1a (tried another mouse not helping)
> monitor: AOC g2460pqu 1ms 144hz
> steelseries siberia headphones + usb sound card (tested without this, does not change a thing)
> dvd drive and two hdd's


Where did you download that program?


----------



## chuNk-

from here

https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B_PnkMGDlD5nVmw4NmdqUS01MEk&export=download

First I used Mouserate.exe software from NGO HQ and it also shows the same unstable polling rate.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuNk-*
> 
> from here
> 
> https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B_PnkMGDlD5nVmw4NmdqUS01MEk&export=download
> 
> First I used Mouserate.exe software from NGO HQ and it also shows the same unstable polling rate.


I downloaded MarkC's Mousefix, and it was in there. Using mouserate, mine shows 999-1000Hz when I'm actually moving it, but when I move it like a few pixels, it's low.

edit: Same with this program, but my Deathadder 2013 is fine in CS:GO. I notice the slightest changes too, not sure if this means there's an issue or not.


----------



## mrlimatic

I just came back from Windows 10 64bit to windows 7 64bit. I had everything fresh (drivers etc). I came back because input lag made me sad sometimes, it was soo laggy.

After fresh install w7 64bit i Followed all of your guide, but with 344.10 i have kind of lower FPS in CSGO (especially in smokes,when at w10 i had like ~~140, but with windows 7 it drops even to 80...) Is there any other "miracle" driver?

My gear is :
Intel PD55KG
Xeon x3430 @ 3.8ghz
4gb 1600mhz ram
GTX660 gigabyte OC
OCZ sxs2 600w
Xifi music

I heard about 347.52 - are they fine ?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> I just came back from Windows 10 64bit to windows 7 64bit. I had everything fresh (drivers etc). I came back because input lag made me sad sometimes, it was soo laggy.
> 
> After fresh install w7 64bit i Followed all of your guide, but with 344.10 i have kind of lower FPS in CSGO (especially in smokes,when at w10 i had like ~~140, but with windows 7 it drops even to 80...) Is there any other "miracle" driver?
> 
> My gear is :
> Intel PD55KG
> Xeon x3430 @ 3.8ghz
> 4gb 1600mhz ram
> GTX660 gigabyte OC
> OCZ sxs2 600w
> Xifi music
> 
> I heard about 347.52 - are they fine ?


Depending on your resolution, no driver will help with smokes in CS:GO. It spikes GPU Usage to 99% on any single-card setup, and can't be avoided.

edit: I've been reading the data from http://www.bytemedev.com/the-gtx-780-ti-sli-end-of-life-driver-performance-analysis/ - Try out NVIDIA 340.52 WHQL, and another one many prefer, is NVIDIA 347.09 *BETA*


----------



## masteratarms

With regards to that mouse polling program, low polling rate when moving the mouse slowly is normal.


----------



## lurker2501

Can somebody explain why you need remote differential compression api support?


----------



## karkee

Should add windows activation to your "guide" .


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can somebody explain why you need remote differential compression api support?


I've never used it, I only leave .NET 3.5 Framework & Windows Search. Maybe r0ach could shed some light on why it's necessary.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

It is rarely employed by programs, but even more rarely user disabled. There's literally no benefit whatsoever to removing it or not installing it as a Windows feature, except in situations where someone does a lot of small- to medium-sized file transfers between two or more computers on the same local network. These type of file transfers can be slower with RDC for some users, but in most situations I suspect that those problems would be solved with better TCP optimizing and NIC settings.

I can't remember the specific programs or situations off the top of my head, but I know there are a few programs out there that do not expect RDC to be disabled, and therefore don't function properly or cause other problems within Windows. I think Windows Update may even be one that is or used to be affected by RDC being disabled and either won't see/report updates to you, or it just makes the Windows Update downloads interminably slow. Sorry I can't remember specifics right now, but I'm very confident that the *tl;dr* to take away from this is that there's not a good reason to uninstall Remote Differential Compression support for the overwhelming majority of users.


----------



## MrHUK

I'm having some audio pops, and stuttering in games and I was wondering if anyone could help me?

Latencymon shows it's most likely due to my network card: https://i.imgur.com/rdx25so.jpg and if I disable it entirely it's fine but I lose internet so it's not a solution: https://i.imgur.com/6CbRhI7.jpg

Would buying a hardware NIC help? Something like this:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-EXPI9301CTBLK-PRO1000-Network-PCIex/dp/B001CY0P7G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1441248316&sr=8-6&keywords=Network+card#productDetails or is there something else I can do to fix it? I tried the 19.1 driver like I've seen suggested, and the latest with no real change.

i5 3570k @ 4.3GHz, GTX 970, 8GB DDR3, SSD, Asus P8Z77-V Pro, Windows 10 64, Creative XFI XtremeGamer PCI


----------



## lurker2501

I'm running Windows 10 Enterprise and every time I try to remove Xbox app it gives me this error: Any ideas how to fix this?
Quote:


> Remove-AppxPackage : Deployment failed with HRESULT: 0x80073CFA, Removal failed. Please contact your software vendor.
> (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80073CFA)
> error 0x80070032: AppX Deployment Remove operation on package
> Microsoft.XboxGameCallableUI_1000.10240.16384.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy from:
> C:\Windows\SystemApps\Microsoft.XboxGameCallableUI_cw5n1h2txyewy failed. This app is part of Windows and cannot be
> uninstalled on a per-user basis. An administrator can attempt to remove the app from the computer using Turn Windows
> Features on or off. However, it may not be possible to uninstall the app.
> NOTE: For additional information, look for [ActivityId] c5321481-e62c-0002-47cb-35c52ce6d001 in the Event Log or use
> the command line Get-AppxLog -ActivityID c5321481-e62c-0002-47cb-35c52ce6d001
> At line:1 char:26
> + Get-AppxPackage *xbox* | Remove-AppxPackage
> + ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> + CategoryInfo : WriteError: (Microsoft.XboxG...l_cw5n1h2txyewy:String) [Remove-AppxPackage], IOException
> + FullyQualifiedErrorId : DeploymentError,Microsoft.Windows.Appx.PackageManager.Commands.RemoveAppxPackageCommand
> 
> Remove-AppxPackage : Deployment failed with HRESULT: 0x80073CFA, Removal failed. Please contact your software vendor.
> (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80073CFA)
> error 0x80070032: AppX Deployment Remove operation on package
> Microsoft.XboxIdentityProvider_1000.10240.16384.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy from:
> C:\Windows\SystemApps\Microsoft.XboxIdentityProvider_cw5n1h2txyewy failed. This app is part of Windows and cannot be
> uninstalled on a per-user basis. An administrator can attempt to remove the app from the computer using Turn Windows
> Features on or off. However, it may not be possible to uninstall the app.
> NOTE: For additional information, look for [ActivityId] c5321481-e62c-0002-eacb-35c52ce6d001 in the Event Log or use
> the command line Get-AppxLog -ActivityID c5321481-e62c-0002-eacb-35c52ce6d001
> At line:1 char:26
> + Get-AppxPackage *xbox* | Remove-AppxPackage
> + ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> + CategoryInfo : WriteError: (Microsoft.XboxI...l_cw5n1h2txyewy:String) [Remove-AppxPackage], IOException
> + FullyQualifiedErrorId : DeploymentError,Microsoft.Windows.Appx.PackageManager.Commands.RemoveAppxPackageCommand


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I've never used it, I only leave .NET 3.5 Framework & Windows Search. Maybe r0ach could shed some light on why it's necessary.


From what I've read about it is that it is a synchronization service for some windows apps and files. I've always had it off and never noticed any difference.


----------



## MrHUK

My DPC latency is fixed after following your software/windows guide: https://i.imgur.com/kHBQ1Tn.jpg

I think it may have been removing the Intel Netowork Driver and using the default Win10 one instead, but it could have been anything in that section. From over 4000 to 115 though, so I'm happy! Thanks.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrHUK*
> 
> My DPC latency is fixed after following your software/windows guide: https://i.imgur.com/kHBQ1Tn.jpg
> 
> I think it may have been removing the Intel Netowork Driver and using the default Win10 one instead, but it could have been anything in that section. From over 4000 to 115 though, so I'm happy! Thanks.


It was almost certainly due to the Intel Network Connections Software version you had. Anything past v19.0c is pretty janky in my experience. I recommend getting it here and seeing if it will install on Windows 10 (leave 'Proset' checked but uncheck 'advanced teaming and VLAN'). If so, I would be willing to bet that it gives you as good or better DPC latency than the default Win10 driver and won't give audio pops or game stuttering, and will be more performant for your network connection.

If v19.0c doesn't support Windows 10, which is very possible, then the default Win10 driver is probably your best option until Intel releases a version in the v20.x+ branch that is less resource-hungry, if they ever do. It's hard to believe that it's been a year and a half since they last produced a competent Network Connections Software release


----------



## MrHUK

I spoke too soon, the network issue is fixed, but after leaving it for 30 minutes this is what I get, any ideas?










And I'm getting lots of Adobe Flash pagefaults, but I uninstalled it weeks ago, the hell?


----------



## Conditioned

If you are using edge that explains it. As in win 8 I suppose ms brings a verision of flash with their browser.


----------



## MrHUK

I have Edge installed, but I'm using Chrome.

This is my log from leaving it running for an hour:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:56:46 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: xxx
OS version: Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware: ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., P8Z77-V PRO
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 8135 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 340 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 1 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 12355.967267
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 2.573874

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 12322.838120
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.910114

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 59.740294
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.048651
Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.054745

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 527596
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 123.093824
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 355.82 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.026230
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 355.82 , NVIDIA Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.067966

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 2990012
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: adobe_flash_player.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 6984
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 3630
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 216962.657647
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.069581
Number of processes hit: 23

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 17.255411
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 59.740294
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 7.456759
CPU 0 ISR count: 527496
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 123.093824
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 6.915567
CPU 0 DPC count: 2153775
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1.532843
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 46.728824
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.001673
CPU 1 ISR count: 100
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 71.945588
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0.551784
CPU 1 DPC count: 232413
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1.617932
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 84.756471
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0.692168
CPU 2 DPC count: 258754
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 2.075660
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 78.088824
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 1.100128
CPU 3 DPC count: 345070
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Pagefaults after an hour:


----------



## Conditioned

Only way I know of checking for dpc issues properly is:

En rad:
set _NT_SYMBOL_PATH= srv*C:\symbols*
http://msdl.microsoft.com/downloads/symbols

Step 1) Download and install the Microsoft "xperf" tool. It's in the [Windows Performance Toolkit]. It's small, just a few megabytes. This tool will tell you what actually caused the spike you see in dpclat.

Step 2) Run the xperf tool to start watching what's causing the spikes. Open a command line console, and then type:

xperf -on Latency

Step 3) Allow the xperf tool to collect information for 5 minutes while you use your computer. After you feel you did a little monitoring, then stop it. Type:

xperf -stop

This creates a C:\kernel.etl file which is a log of the DPC's and ISR's taking place during that timeframe.

Step 4) Create a report file so you can see where the spikes came from. Type:

xperf -I \kernel.etl -symbols verbose -a dpcisr > latency_report.txt

This will create a report file called latency_report.txt in whatever folder you're in.

Now, you need to interpret this file. It shows you a list of the maximum latencies produced by each driver. A DPC of 512 means one of your drivers/devices was blocking all processing on your system for 512us. All you have to do is find the one that says "512" on it.

Here is an example of one of my report.txt's:

In this case, dxgkrnl.sys is an Nvidia mobile GPU driver, and its power management is causing massive latency spikes in the system.

Looking forward to hearing your results if you have 10 mins to test this.

If anybody else can test this too, it would be awesome. I think these EVGA boards are high quality in the latency department, we just gotta find the device that's throwing the spikes.

Thanks a million,
- Nolay


----------



## PureEvilWindom

impressive, everything become smooth after decrease latency from 1352 to 67. thank you r0ach.
any different tips for notebook user ? im using asus n46vz & trying to get 30 latency but some tips cant work on notebook like disable onboard audio & video.


----------



## mrlimatic

I followed your whole guide but I am having problem with nvidia kernel mode driver dpc latency.



My gear is :
Intel PD55KG - everything powersaving off etc
Xeon x3430 @ 3.8ghz
4gb 1600mhz ram
GTX660 gigabyte OC
OCZ sxs2 600w
Xifi music
Windows 10 64bit

I had same issues on windows 7 and 8 (with nvidia kernel) My gpu is now in MSI-mode
What i can try?


----------



## karkee

What is currently the best nivida driver to use? I seem to have quite some FPS drops in for example CS GO with latest... I use to have a much better one but forgot the driver version







Have a GTX970..


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> What is currently the best nivida driver to use? I seem to have quite some FPS drops in for example CS GO with latest... I use to have a much better one but forgot the driver version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have a GTX970..


For a 970 GTX, 344.16, 347.09 beta (not whql), or 350.12. while using Windows 8.1.


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> For a 970 GTX, 344.16, 347.09 beta (not whql), or 350.12. while using Windows 8.1.


What about w10 and gtx660?


----------



## Nastya

Reminder to turn off Xbox DVR which causes huge input lag on Windows 10 by recording the last 30 seconds of gameplay.
Xbox app --> Settings --> turn off DVR

or remove the app entirely.


----------



## Conditioned

Did you try any of the 355.* or any others with the kepler optimization r0ach?


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Did you try any of the 355.* or any others with the kepler optimization r0ach?


i was on 355.x drivers (didnt remember which one) but it caused huuge input lag. For now i am using drivers from windows update - 353.82 and to be fair - they are working very well (in CSGO for example)


----------



## gabecubano14

I have 353.06 for my GTX 970 on Windows 7. Haven't upgraded yet to any of the newer ones. Anybody recommend a good one over 353.06 for a GTX 970?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Check this video guys, helped;

How to fix memory leaks in Windows 8.1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3hRMahc7v4


----------



## softskiller

Hey I have a very special question: if the color profile set in the windows color management for the display matters?

When one choses "Use my settings for this device" and leaves it blank or choses something like sRGB IEC.

If color management adds some sort of processing delay by correcting game colors.

(Because the Samsung - Natural Color Pro 1.0 ICM profile is faulty I have to chose between blank/none and maybe sRGB)


----------



## Conditioned

Edit: quoted the wrong guy.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> i was on 355.x drivers (didnt remember which one) but it caused huuge input lag. For now i am using drivers from windows update - 353.82 and to be fair - they are working very well (in CSGO for example)


You have a quadro?


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> You have a quadro?


nah,gtx660


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> nah,gtx660


Odd you would get that from win update it seems to be a quadro driver 353.82-quadro-grid-desktop-notebook-win8-win7-64bit-international-whql. Anyways its pretty nice. Little (and I mean a little) laggier than 347.09 beta but 10-15% better performance for me in witcher 3. Lot less lag than 355* (I haven't tested a lot of those btw).

I like em and will stay on them for now, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Odd you would get that from win update it seems to be a quadro driver 353.82-quadro-grid-desktop-notebook-win8-win7-64bit-international-whql. Anyways its pretty nice. Little (and I mean a little) laggier than 347.09 beta but 10-15% better performance for me in witcher 3. Lot less lag than 355* (I haven't tested a lot of those btw).
> 
> I like em and will stay on them for now, thanks for the tip.


Yeah I can only attest to the 353.82's quality. Had latency spikes of up to 160 us with the most recent driver, with this one it's 80 us at most.


----------



## mrlimatic

you should guys try this drivers : http://www.tweakforce.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6724

working so good at w7 64bit and gtx660!


----------



## Gonzalez07

I wonder if someone could find what causes the input to be higher on some drivers that way these custom ones can always fix it


----------



## Anusha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> I wonder if someone could find what causes the input to be higher on some drivers that way these custom ones can always fix it


It has to be some additional processing. Not well-thought-out implementation of additional processing.


----------



## mrlimatic

is this normal,that when i am playing i have like 100-200us DPC latency but when i am at desktop its not higher than 20?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Yes it's normal for it to be significantly higher during gaming. I usually have 10-15us that varies from 50-100us in-game. 1) DPC latency isn't really that strong of an indicator for rendering or input device performance, 2) DPC Latency Checker isn't really the best tool for evaluating DPC latency.

Looking at USB polling precision data, gaming has a much more noticeable and slightly bothersome impact, increasing variance by something like an order of magnitude (rough guess).


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Hey I have a very special question: if the color profile set in the windows color management for the display matters?
> 
> When one choses "Use my settings for this device" and leaves it blank or choses something like sRGB IEC.
> 
> If color management adds some sort of processing delay by correcting game colors.


Actually I have the same question







.


----------



## Conditioned

Here's how I use bluetooth while still maintaining low latency. You might wonder why I need this but I just want to play games with my ps4 controller cause it's so good.

Simply put I disable bluetooth. I have a small shellscript that disables the service and the hardware. For the service I use "sc.exe" which should be present in any recent version of windows. For the hardware I use devcon.exe which is part of of the wdk. You can read more about it at http://superuser.com/questions/443162/remove-usb-device-from-command-line/486647#486647.

@echo off
sc stop bthserv
sc config bthserv start= disabled
devcon disable "USB\VID_0B05&PID_17CB&REV_0112"
devcon disable "USB\VID_0B05&PID_17CB"

Once I run this the ps4 controller turns off, so you might also consider it a batterysaving shellscript. The service name is the name of the bluetooth service. You can find it out by typing 'services.msc' in the run (win^r) or in a cmd.exe commandline shell. Just find the appropriate service you need the name of and doubleclick it. Note the trailing space after the equalsign (=). It's needed.
Finding out what you need to put into the quotationmark is a little tricker but quite easy. Type devmgmt.msc in a shell/cmd.exe/run window. Doubleclick the device go to thedetails tab and select hardware id's. I have two entries as you might have guess there and disable both.

For simplicities sake here's how I start it Bluetooth: Once I run this I just need to press the discovery and PS button on my ps4 controller and it's activated:

@echo off
devcon enable "USB\VID_0B05&PID_17CB&REV_0112"
devcon enable "USB\VID_0B05&PID_17CB"
sc config bthserv start= demand
sc start bthserv

'demand' here put's the service in 'manual' mode.


----------



## Nastya

I really don't think color profiles introduce some extra latency, at least I have never heard about that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karac*
> 
> Actually I have the same question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I highly, highly doubt it. Never have I heard of any extra latency being introduced with a non-default color profile.
Even if there were, you could consider it baseline.

Then again, this is coming from someone who thinks several of the "tweaks" in the OP are utter placebo.


----------



## mrlimatic

Hey guys. I have problem with terrible mouse feel in CSGO
I dont have idea how it work,but on different map my mouse have different feel.

Ex. at de_train my mouse is laggy as hell, i cant hit anything - i have crosshair on enemys but bullets didnt go in him (feels like huuge input lag)
Same thing is on cobblestone.
Mouse is feeling good when i am playing maps like mirage,cache or dust2 but sometimes it feels horrible too.

My FPS is 200-300 (down to ~100 in smoke,but its normal)

my mouse is roccat kone pure black edition with 3310 on board
windows 7 64bit
347.09 beta drivers with GTX660 2gb OC
Cpu is xeon x3430 OC-ed to 3.8ghz
4gb ram ddr3 1600mhz

Sometimes i am an GOD in this game but sometimes when my mouse is damn laggy i cant hit a single shot...

What the hell is wrong..?
My DPC latency in desktop is 10-20,in game 100~~
playing on fullhd 75hz (oc-ed without drops)


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> Hey guys. I have problem with terrible mouse feel in CSGO
> I dont have idea how it work,but on different map my mouse have different feel.
> 
> Ex. at de_train my mouse is laggy as hell, i cant hit anything - i have crosshair on enemys but bullets didnt go in him (feels like huuge input lag)
> Same thing is on cobblestone.
> Mouse is feeling good when i am playing maps like mirage,cache or dust2 but sometimes it feels horrible too.
> 
> My FPS is 200-300 (down to ~100 in smoke,but its normal)
> 
> my mouse is roccat kone pure black edition with 3310 on board
> windows 7 64bit
> 347.09 beta drivers with GTX660 2gb OC
> Cpu is xeon x3430 OC-ed to 3.8ghz
> 4gb ram ddr3 1600mhz
> 
> Sometimes i am an GOD in this game but sometimes when my mouse is damn laggy i cant hit a single shot...
> 
> What the hell is wrong..?
> My DPC latency in desktop is 10-20,in game 100~~
> playing on fullhd 75hz (oc-ed without drops)


Nothing to do about your pc, it's cs go engine who causing it especially after new animation updates, fps is just horrible.


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Nothing to do about your pc, it's cs go engine who causing it especially after new animation updates, fps is just horrible.


i also had it before update but more randomly.

http://imgur.com/K6JokQ8

is this normal?

In desktop i dont have any red/green's


----------



## softskiller

It can also help to just restart the computer.
For me it always feels like the longer I play the worse it gets.

Sometimes I have to restart the computer during warm up of a match because it feels much worse than the match before.

(GTX 670)


----------



## masteratarms

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> i also had it before update but more randomly.
> 
> http://imgur.com/K6JokQ8
> 
> is this normal?
> 
> In desktop i dont have any red/green's


http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/04/markc-mouse-acceleration-fix-builder.html


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *masteratarms*
> 
> http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/04/markc-mouse-acceleration-fix-builder.html


i have this installed.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Nothing to do about your pc, it's cs go engine who causing it especially after new animation updates, fps is just horrible.


^^^ Valve is just breaking the game more and more. I made a thread on Global Offensive reddit, but some Silver getting a Zeus kill gets more upvotes.. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ljkl4/mouse_movement_update/ - If you revert your game to 9/3/15 (Pre-Update), you can feel a HUGE difference in how your mouse feels, it's pretty drastic.


----------



## Axaion

more proof that 1.6 was the last good CS.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> ^^^ Valve is just breaking the game more and more. I made a thread on Global Offensive reddit, but some Silver getting a Zeus kill gets more upvotes.. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ljkl4/mouse_movement_update/ - If you revert your game to 9/3/15 (Pre-Update), you can feel a HUGE difference in how your mouse feels, it's pretty drastic.


How do you revert and can you play with 9/3/15 onlie?


----------



## dandy-

What about the new NVIDIA 950, which is said to have lower input-latency, anyone have any *input* on this?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> How do you revert and can you play with 9/3/15 onlie?


Sorry, just saw this. That will depend if there are any servers still running on that patch, which I highly doubt, but I'm not 100% sure how community servers operate patch-wise. I just made my own game with bots to play around, and the difference my mouse movement was *drastic*. Go to Library -> Right Click CS:GO -> Properties -> Betas -> Sep_03 - This will download the files to revert your game to that Patch, than you're good to go. To revert, follow the same steps, but choose "NONE - Opt out of all beta programs"


----------



## freddycatking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> ^^^ Valve is just breaking the game more and more. I made a thread on Global Offensive reddit, but some Silver getting a Zeus kill gets more upvotes.. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ljkl4/mouse_movement_update/ - If you revert your game to 9/3/15 (Pre-Update), you can feel a HUGE difference in how your mouse feels, it's pretty drastic.


I also made a thread about the trashy mouse feel and got downvoted to ****, I guess the players want to be holier-than-thou and upvote darude sandstorm. It will never be fixed. I've been having good luck using a program called sourcegl to use rinput in-game, and running csgo in fullscreen windowed, with some brightness controls in my graphics driver. Try that, might be the best bet. The guy who made sourcegl, Vols and Jezuz has been talking in this thread too.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> I also made a thread about the trashy mouse feel and got downvoted to ****, I guess the players want to be holier-than-thou and upvote darude sandstorm. It will never be fixed. I've been having good luck using a program called sourcegl to use rinput in-game, and running csgo in fullscreen windowed, with some brightness controls in my graphics driver. Try that, might be the best bet. The guy who made sourcegl, Vols and Jezuz has been talking in this thread too.


Didn't think he released it yet. Yeah that subreddit is mind boggling at times, they obsess over pros/streamers, chickens, tasers, and other idiotic stuff, but sometimes they actually upvote stuff that needs to be seen. You can run a VPROF report of your game, and sending to CS:GO Dev's should help them pinpoint the issue. CS:GO Update + VPROF Report - Here's mine: http://pastebin.com/isLZc9i2 - C_BaseAnimating::SetupBones using 19% of resources and causing drops. I need to revert my game to 9/3/15 and run it as well. It's been pretty obvious that the new animations and their poor optimization of CS:GO is causing all these drops, such as CPU => GPU and vice versa transitions. Hopefully enough people ***** about 99% GPU Usage when at the edge of a smoke and they kill two birds with one stone







Who am I kidding, they'll fix one thing and break 20 others


----------



## freddycatking

I'll definitely run the VPROF. with some luck they'll make the game run better than ever before.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Is there any possible setup to play 4:3 stretched with no input lag ?

I am building a new PC at some point over the next year and I can buy a new benq monitor. No input lag on 4:3 stetched is very important to me. My current Benq 144hz and gtx 570 are very nice but I can feel a bit of input lag as I am forced to use the fullscreen setting in the nvidia control panel it is set to display but still a little lag.

I am using BenQ XL2420Z from Feb 2014 with firmware V1.

Using 355.82 drivers

unfortunately my monitor doesnt let me use and type of scaling without changing to 120hz which I doubt would be worth it.

any advice?


----------



## tekwiz99

why 4:3 stretched? any reason behind that theory?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> Is there any possible setup to play 4:3 stretched with no input lag ?
> 
> I am building a new PC at some point over the next year and I can buy a new benq monitor. No input lag on 4:3 stetched is very important to me. My current Benq 144hz and gtx 570 are very nice but I can feel a bit of input lag as I am forced to use the fullscreen setting in the nvidia control panel it is set to display but still a little lag.
> 
> I am using BenQ XL2420Z from Feb 2014 with firmware V1.
> 
> Using 355.82 drivers
> 
> unfortunately my monitor doesnt let me use and type of scaling without changing to 120hz which I doubt would be worth it.
> 
> any advice?


Did you try GPU Scaling?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> why 4:3 stretched? any reason behind that theory?


A lot of people are used to 4:3 CS 1.6/CS:Source, stretching it to full screen makes the models a bit wider and what not.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> I'll definitely run the VPROF. with some luck they'll make the game run better than ever before.


We can dream, right?


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Is playing at 1440x1080 no scaling less efficient than just playing on 1080p if thats my monitors native res ? Fullscreen ?


----------



## Conditioned

I would go with display scaling @ 120 over 144hz with gpu scaling any day.


----------



## pox02

hey r0ach what bios you recommend for asus p8z77-v?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

at least I found solution... My games installed to D disk. I did set page file for D and now perfect. I played 2560 1440 Ultra and no lag. Here is a sample video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sh2bZty-Os&


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> at least I found solution... My games installed to D disk. I did set page file for D and now perfect. I played 2560 1440 Ultra and no lag. Here is a sample video;
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sh2bZty-Os&


so paging file on the same partition or disk is the fix ? and if u have C: ssd isn`t that better ?

is that the only thing you did ? how was it like before a video would help


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> so paging file on the same partition or disk is the fix ? and if u have C: ssd isn`t that better ?
> 
> is that the only thing you did ? how was it like before a video would help


Do not pay attention, DJ_OXyGeNe_8 always says that it helps different things such as move the computer into another corner or turn the system unit upside down







. Always without arguments . Now he says that paging file ( which is used in case of lack of memory,recommend off ) completely eliminates lags. Ha ha)


----------



## sgtdisembodied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Do not pay attention, DJ_OXyGeNe_8 always says that it helps different things such as move the computer into another corner or turn the system unit upside down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Always without arguments . Now he says that paging file ( which is used in case of lack of memory,recommend off ) completely eliminates lags. Ha ha)


Just because it didn't work for you, doesn't mean it's not valid for other's systems. Even if it is just placebo, it is worth analysing why it would or wouldn't help with system responsiveness.

I tried it on a single 3TB HDD system (8gb ram) and it did help with preloading and eliminated stuttering (especially in TF2, I've never seen the game this fluid in terms of animation), but mouse responsiveness went down quite a bit (felt buffered, I play with 1 prerendered frame and have followed this and many guides and know exactly when somethings wrong with my mouse movement), I reverted the changes, since I do have a second HDD, but its transfer rate is slower than the OS one, so I wouldn't benefit from moving my games there.









My guess is having a pagefiled, same speed twin HDD, with no pagefile in the OS HDD, would solve this issue, and I would have all the benefits: 0 mouse lag and files preloaded, but that's just my theory, as Oxy seems to be doing that.









I can't talk for SSD owners, I just know it is recommended for them to turn pagefile off, that's yet to be tried by someone else.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sgtdisembodied*
> 
> Just because it didn't work for you, doesn't mean it's not valid for other's systems. Even if it is just placebo, it is worth analysing why it would or wouldn't help with system responsiveness.
> 
> I tried it on a single 3TB HDD system (8gb ram) and it did help with preloading and eliminated stuttering (especially in TF2, I've never seen the game this fluid in terms of animation), but mouse responsiveness went down quite a bit (felt buffered, I play with 1 prerendered frame and have followed this and many guides and know exactly when somethings wrong with my mouse movement), I reverted the changes, since I do have a second HDD, but its transfer rate is slower than the OS one, so I wouldn't benefit from moving my games there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is having a pagefiled, same speed twin HDD, with no pagefile in the OS HDD, would solve this issue, and I would have all the benefits: 0 mouse lag and files preloaded, but that's just my theory, as Oxy seems to be doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't talk for SSD owners, I just know it is recommended for them to turn pagefile off, that's yet to be tried by someone else.


Many systems - many variants. For example, I have ASUS Maximus VII Hero + I7 4790k + SSD + Win 8.1 - Ive tried almost all recommendations from this guide and can tell, 80% of them is useless (nothing do or make mouse movements more lagged). Other 20% - its a Nvidia Driver Guide, Windows Power Managment (nonprogram core parking disable) and something else must work. For Oxy hdd recommend - its can help in idea with HDD. He often told **hey,look,its help me!*, but not give arguments (for example, video before and after).

I want to say, all of this recommends for mouse lag give a little profit if you have high PING.


----------



## jtl999

For ****s and giggles here is my 15 inch Macbook Pro (2015) plugged into AC power on "high performance" with all applicable things disabled. (That one DPC spike was from CPUZ)

Haven't noticed any r0ach cursor(tm)

Any questions? VERY stable USB controller.


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sgtdisembodied*
> 
> I can't talk for SSD owners, I just know it is recommended for them to turn pagefile off, that's yet to be tried by someone else.


As far as I know, it's still recommended to keep a small pagefile even for SSD users: http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds#post_15523325


----------



## Conditioned

I would go with display scaling @ 120 over 144hz with gpu scaling any day.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sgtdisembodied*
> 
> Just because it didn't work for you, doesn't mean it's not valid for other's systems. Even if it is just placebo, it is worth analysing why it would or wouldn't help with system responsiveness.
> 
> I tried it on a single 3TB HDD system (8gb ram) and it did help with preloading and eliminated stuttering (especially in TF2, I've never seen the game this fluid in terms of animation), but mouse responsiveness went down quite a bit (felt buffered, I play with 1 prerendered frame and have followed this and many guides and know exactly when somethings wrong with my mouse movement), I reverted the changes, since I do have a second HDD, but its transfer rate is slower than the OS one, so I wouldn't benefit from moving my games there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is having a pagefiled, same speed twin HDD, with no pagefile in the OS HDD, would solve this issue, and I would have all the benefits: 0 mouse lag and files preloaded, but that's just my theory, as Oxy seems to be doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't talk for SSD owners, I just know it is recommended for them to turn pagefile off, that's yet to be tried by someone else.


Getting work off of an irq might be a possible explanation. I know acpi is supposed to solve this but I like to use most important devices (mouse/keyboard/gpu/audio etc) on seperate irq,s whe possible. I get popping on my essence stx on one pic-e and on the other, non-shared irq it's fine.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Many systems - many variants. For example, I have ASUS Maximus VII Hero + I7 4790k + SSD + Win 8.1 - Ive tried almost all recommendations from this guide and can tell, 80% of them is useless (nothing do or make mouse movements more lagged). Other 20% - its a Nvidia Driver Guide, Windows Power Managment (nonprogram core parking disable) and something else must work. For Oxy hdd recommend - its can help in idea with HDD. He often told **hey,look,its help me!*, but not give arguments (for example, video before and after).
> 
> I want to say, all of this recommends for mouse lag give a little profit if you have high PING.


I have this same hardware setup except I use win 7. I can detect a difference i a lot of the settings. Possible explanations might be you have a deviecs that negates most of these effects (say a high latency monitor) or you aren't very sensitive. Mousemovement is rendered locally so it's not affected by ping with any modern netcode.

ps. Imho Win 8 has fubared mousemovement.


----------



## Axaion

Yeah ill be there in a few minutes, im just eating this awesome chicken first though


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I have this same hardware setup except I use win 7. I can detect a difference i a lot of the settings. Possible explanations might be you have a deviecs that negates most of these effects (say a high latency monitor) or you aren't very sensitive. Mousemovement is rendered locally so it's not affected by ping with any modern netcode.
> 
> ps. Imho Win 8 has fubared mousemovement.


I have ASUS VG248QE 144 Hz monitor) And yes, win 8 have another feeling from cursor movement. Also because 8 have vsync on by default and it impossible to disable. Sorry, but all what i can have with this settings - just locked up cpu at 4.00 without throttling and do some stuff with power settings in bios. In result, i have not profit with it, back, i see some more lag. For example, i tryed play in Torchlight 2 on win 8 - i have massive stutter with all by default in bios and with customizing. Only set up NvidiaDriver by application solved it. So, many systems - many variants) Need testing


----------



## rivage

Random question : Do you guys use a power strip for both screen and pc power ? or wall outlets? cuz I legitimately don't know which one is better.


----------



## Nastya

Literally doesn't matter. I use a power strip I can shut off.


----------



## lurker2501

Does Win 10 taskbar thumbnail preview cause input lag and if yes how to disable it?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Does Win 10 taskbar thumbnail preview cause input lag and if yes how to disable it?


I don't think it does causing input lag
http://superuser.com/questions/951098/how-to-disable-taskbar-thumbnail-preview-in-windows-10

I've found the

Disabledynamictick

Very little information exists at Microsoft.com on disabledynamictick:
https://www.google.com/#q=disabledynamictick+-social+-answers+site:microsoft.com
The only legitimate use for this I have seen is as a fix for hardware issues that has since been fixed.
Example:
Issue: http://withinwindows.com/within-windows/2012/06/28/workaround-for-windows-8-freezing-issues
Fixed: http://withinwindows.com/within-windows/2012/07/10/hotfix-available-for-windows-8-freezing-issues

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

Makes the mouse movement 100% better.

Windows 8.1 and 10 should disable this crap, it's only for crappy laptops and 100% not for gaming, Power Savings and Cpu saving modes screw many games engine because of HT and cpu clock. for desktop it's he same, it's the same os and same cpu in most cases.

Another thing, people in Guru3d said that Intel Technology Access has fixed their issue with stuttering, from what I noticed when you install Intel Technology Access it changes the Timer Resolution. Before I installed ITA my timer resolution was 15.625 , after I installed ITA it changed to 1.001 , maybe some games like crysis 3 have this improve with fps and fix the stuttering because of this ?

*And If you want to check DPC Latency , you must use the*

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000001

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/10128.tools-for-troubleshooting-slow-boots-and-slow-logons-sbsl.aspx

I had couple other sites says you need to do this, can't find them now, will look in the history.

I also found the NETBIOS is causing terrible DPC jumps in my computer and my laptop. I have Linux connected to my network with Deluge torrent client with SAMBA server and I still have access to it from my computer with network drive.

http://5whoia.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pJP7uqA7VBBLbqq8onjjuuy0VdUg91CLJ8yYukAWotN-QxEQ_4WSCYXZbhtUeKWMNf6pfm99ijpkw15XdYIiP88jNVxiYAorV/Capture1.PNG

*Another thing posted from Latencymon creator*

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_interrupt2process

The method of measuring latencies that used a kernel timer that was used in previous versions is still available as an optional feature. However since Windows 8 comes with a new power saving feature called dynamic clock tick as well as a new algorithm for deciding when kernel timer events should actually fire, this method of measuring is no longer practical or useful on Windows 8 and later operating systems.

Note: it is recommended to close all other running programs before running the interrupt to user process latency test, or before interpreting the value that it reports. This test simulates the workings of a real-time audio process. Unlike other tests that LatencyMon performs, it does not make sense to run this test while an audio program is active.

Another thing you can do is to check for errors easier to find specific software or drive using the eventviewer Application and Services Logs


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Does Win 10 taskbar thumbnail preview cause input lag and if yes how to disable it?


Anyone?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Anyone?


Does Win 10 taskbar thumbnail preview cause input lag and if yes how to disable it?

I don't think it does causing input lag
http://superuser.com/questions/951098/how-to-disable-taskbar-thumbnail-preview-in-windows-10

I don't think it affect on the mouse on any way.


----------



## Rty345

Hi guys. I want to offer a small survey , write to the characteristics of your computer and briefly methods that helped reduce mouse movement lag for you . If not difficult , thanks

Simple as:

CPU: I7 4770k
MOBO: MSI z97 g43
GPU: MSI GTX 970

My method: It work nice by default


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Hi guys. I want to offer a small survey , write to the characteristics of your computer and briefly methods that helped reduce mouse movement lag for you . If not difficult , thanks
> 
> Simple as:
> 
> CPU: I7 4770k
> MOBO: MSI z97 g43
> GPU: MSI GTX 970
> 
> My method: It work nice by default


wow awesome method


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Hi guys. I want to offer a small survey , write to the characteristics of your computer and briefly methods that helped reduce mouse movement lag for you . If not difficult , thanks
> 
> Simple as:
> 
> CPU: I7 4770k
> MOBO: MSI z97 g43
> GPU: MSI GTX 970
> 
> My method: It work nice by default


Instructions unclear, computer is leaving me for a washing machine


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Instructions unclear, computer is leaving me for a washing machine


Take care about my socks


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> wow awesome method


In the next topic discussed same-sex relationship, you there


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Hi guys. I want to offer a small survey , write to the characteristics of your computer and briefly methods that helped reduce mouse movement lag for you . If not difficult , thanks
> 
> Simple as:
> 
> CPU: I7 4770k
> MOBO: MSI z97 g43
> GPU: MSI GTX 970
> 
> My method: It work nice by default


MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)

CPU:I7 4710HQ
Motherboard:HM87 Chipset UEFI
GPU: Intel Iris Pro+AMD Radeon M370X

Under OS X: install SmoothMouse and Logitech Gaming Software (don't game under OS X though)
Under Windows: works mostly by default: DPC latency is stable.(always runs using the AMD GPU)

I do have a desktop which had various Z97+Z87 motherboards but I got some weird input lag, even under Linux live CD's, Hackintosh, and of course Windows. Seemed like it wasn't a motherboard problem and the display doesn't have any input lag as a factor (said display works fine with said Macbook Pro)


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
> 
> CPU:I7 4710HQ
> Motherboard:HM87 Chipset UEFI
> GPU: Intel Iris Pro+AMD Radeon M370X
> 
> Under OS X: install SmoothMouse and Logitech Gaming Software (don't game under OS X though)
> Under Windows: works mostly by default: DPC latency is stable.(always runs using the AMD GPU)
> 
> I do have a desktop which had various Z97+Z87 motherboards but I got some weird input lag, even under Linux live CD's, Hackintosh, and of course Windows. Seemed like it wasn't a motherboard problem and the display doesn't have any input lag as a factor (said display works fine with said Macbook Pro)


Hello, I have Logitech mouse,but make all settings and save them in mouse memory,so - software is not needed. Its good factor to disable possible negative from LGS (but i dont have problems with, its just enable second mouse in Windows Device Manager). My DPC (with and without tweaks) stay at 30-100 in default. Nvidia set by default Scaling on Display (i try set it to No Scaling - Display, it bad a little bit).
Also help to set a standart color theme for win 7 ( win7 for mouse better,then win 8). Thank you


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Another thing, people in Guru3d said that Intel Technology Access has fixed their issue with stuttering, from what I noticed when you install Intel Technology Access it changes the Timer Resolution. Before I installed ITA my timer resolution was 15.625 , after I installed ITA it changed to 1.001


In Windows 8.1 for most machines I've tested, the OS launches with 15 timer resolution then changes to 1.0 and permanently stays there after the simple act of launching a multimedia video like an HTML 5 movie.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> In Windows 8.1 for most machines I've tested, the OS launches with 15 timer resolution then changes to 1.0 and permanently stays there after the simple act of launching a multimedia video like an HTML 5 movie.


Perfomance test in Win7/Win 8.1 (winsat) add input lag or not? That test calibrate hardware and software parts of PC for harmony,as i know


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Perfomance test in Win7/Win 8.1 (winsat) add input lag or not? That test calibrate hardware and software parts of PC for harmony,as i know


Why should winsat introduce any input lag? It's only benchmarking the system, then creates a file to store the results. Further it may also make changes to the registry, such as disabling slow file caches if your write speed is good enough.


----------



## mrlimatic

how we can compare amd drivers vs nvidia drivers in CSGO game?
Is AMD better (lower inputlag) than nvidia's drivers?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Why should winsat introduce any input lag? It's only benchmarking the system, then creates a file to store the results. Further it may also make changes to the registry, such as disabling slow file caches if your write speed is good enough.


When benchmarking in CS:GO when testing different NVIDIA drivers, my results are worse if I don't run WinSAT. (Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit)


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> When benchmarking in CS:GO when testing different NVIDIA drivers, my results are worse if I don't run WinSAT. (Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit)


You tested with roach*s recommendations for Nvidia ( 1 frame prerender, thread optimize off and other)? I try default and roach*s, dont understand what is better....its similar


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> You tested with roach*s recommendations for Nvidia ( 1 frame prerender, thread optimize off and other)? I try default and roach*s, dont understand what is better....its similar


Yes, but Threaded Optimization @ Auto. Not sure how or why, but that yields the highest frame rate with the lowest frame rate variability, compared to On / Off. Ran about 20 tests per setting (Auto / On / Off) too. I really don't know how WinSAT helps in Windows 7, but it seems to do something.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> When benchmarking in CS:GO when testing different NVIDIA drivers, my results are worse if I don't run WinSAT. (Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit)


Is this Winsat thing you're talking about is "winsat formal -restart clean" ? Like after updating any drivers, you just run this command afterwards?


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Is this Winsat thing you're talking about is "winsat formal -restart clean" ? Like after updating any drivers, you just run this command afterwards?


Yes. In my opinion, on win 8.1 it help with optimizing soft and hard


----------



## Stridezz

How much input lag (in ms) would using onboard audio in FPS games be adding?
I have a wireless USB headset, and as far as I know there is no way of using those with a dedicated sound card.
I'm trying to work out whether the latency eliminated would justify the costs of a new headset and sound card.

Thank you


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stridezz*
> 
> How much input lag (in ms) would using onboard audio in FPS games be adding?
> I have a wireless USB headset, and as far as I know there is no way of using those with a dedicated sound card.
> I'm trying to work out whether the latency eliminated would justify the costs of a new headset and sound card.
> 
> Thank you


Audio card will add some lag always. More or lower,so,it doesnt matter what kind of sound card you will use


----------



## mrlimatic

anyone tested how bunch of new drivers working on w7 64bit with nvidia 600 series?
I am looking for some fresh one's,old drivers have some performance issues for me (bigger fps drops in CSGO)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> anyone tested how bunch of new drivers working on w7 64bit with nvidia 600 series?
> I am looking for some fresh one's,old drivers have some performance issues for me (bigger fps drops in CSGO)


Still using 344.11 here, that and 347.09 BETA seem to be the two drivers people approve of on here. I also tested 347.25, which seemed pretty good too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> does playing CSGO pay your bills? then don't complain having low fps just because you have 600-series card


If he has a 660/670, he shouldn't have any issues in CS:GO. They keep breaking the game, reverting my game to last year, my FPS didn't even drop in a smoke on 1920x1080, but currently it drops to 150~ at the lowest and I have an i7-4790k @ 4.4 GHz + GTX 770 2GB.


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> does playing CSGO pay your bills? then don't complain having low fps just because you have 600-series card


U know that CSGO is heavy CPU game?
My GPU is not even using 50% of power when while playing. Its about optimalization.

I think i found solution.
Drivers 347.25, Changing GPU to MSI-MODE and disabling powermizer in regedit looks like give me some fps boost and my game works smoother. (i need to play for some time,maybe its just placebo. lets see)


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Still using 344.11 here, that and 347.09 BETA seem to be the two drivers people approve of on here. I also tested 347.25, which seemed pretty good too.
> If he has a 660/670, he shouldn't have any issues in CS:GO. They keep breaking the game, reverting my game to last year, my FPS didn't even drop in a smoke on 1920x1080, but currently it drops to 150~ at the lowest and I have an i7-4790k @ 4.4 GHz + GTX 770 2GB.


im still on 350.12, about year. 150 fps is a good for fps. Better if you can lower the ping to server - it will add lower latency. I play in CoD with 200 fps but it no so different from 144 fps.

So, I want ask someone....on modern platform as z97...disable IntelSpeedStep, TurboBoost and other...- does it take the lag minimise/fps boost? On my z97 ASUS HERO-I7 4790k-GTX970-144hz monitor i cannt see difference.... I see only different mouse movement when my mousepad or mouse need cleaning


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> U know that CSGO is heavy CPU game?
> My GPU is not even using 50% of power when while playing. Its about optimalization.
> 
> I think i found solution.
> Drivers 347.25, Changing GPU to MSI-MODE and disabling powermizer in regedit looks like give me some fps boost and my game works smoother. (i need to play for some time,maybe its just placebo. lets see)


What you mean under powermizer?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> im still on 350.12, about year. 150 fps is a good for fps. Better if you can lower the ping to server - it will add lower latency. I play in CoD with 200 fps but it no so different from 144


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> im still on 350.12, about year. 150 fps is a good for fps. Better if you can lower the ping to server - it will add lower latency. I play in CoD with 200 fps but it no so different from 144


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> What you mean under powermizer?


1) I tried 350.12 once, pretty sure it's the GTA V Driver, and my game felt choppy, but I only tested it in one Aim Server. The difference between 150fps & 300fps in CS:GO is extremely noticeable, and I think most would agree with me when I say you need at least ~250fps stable to play CS:GO comfortably.
2) Pretty sure Powermizer is for laptops.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> 1) I tried 350.12 once, pretty sure it's the GTA V Driver, and my game felt choppy, but I only tested it in one Aim Server. The difference between 150fps & 300fps in CS:GO is extremely noticeable, and I think most would agree with me when I say you need at least ~250fps stable to play CS:GO comfortably.
> 2) Pretty sure Powermizer is for laptops.


Aaa,ok) Yeah,in CS GO it can be important.
What about power in OS...Im on win7, make manual unparking and left all by default in BIOS. Doesnt difference


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> What you mean under powermizer?


https://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=643733

i think that powermizer do something at PC too. My game is noticeable smoother


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> https://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=643733
> 
> i think that powermizer do something at PC too. My game is noticeable smoother


You have Powermizer in your registry, on a desktop? A lot of that is basic info, but do not use MVP Virtu.


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> You have Powermizer in your registry, on a desktop? A lot of that is basic info, but do not use MVP Virtu.


i am not using mvp virtu.
I followed this guide about disabling powermizer : https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/solved-dropouts-cracks-pops-on-windows-7-and-nvidia-gfx-card.126080/


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> i am not using mvp virtu.
> I followed this guide about disabling powermizer : https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/solved-dropouts-cracks-pops-on-windows-7-and-nvidia-gfx-card.126080/


Again, do you have a Laptop?


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Again, do you have a Laptop?


nope


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> i am not using mvp virtu.
> I followed this guide about disabling powermizer : https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/solved-dropouts-cracks-pops-on-windows-7-and-nvidia-gfx-card.126080/


I dont really undstnd,what this feature can make better.....All cards throttling without load, and spikes/freezes/dropouts can be from not correct CPU settings. For videocards,on my opinion, powermizer its placebo.

From your link, guy check his latency for nvidia driver components, i have some latency from them too,but from kernel and main driver. IRQ problem?)

Update. I try disable powermizer, dont see difference.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Still using 344.11 here, that and 347.09 BETA seem to be the two drivers people approve of on here.


Do you solely install the driver and nothing else? cuz I'm mainly playing CS:GO and League, and I legitimately don't know if I need to install Nvidia PhysX or not for those games in particular.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Do you solely install the driver and nothing else? cuz I'm mainly playing CS:GO and League, and I legitimately don't know if I need to install Nvidia PhysX or not for those games in particular.


Only driver. PhysX by choice - its for magical physic calculations on gpu


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Do you solely install the driver and nothing else? cuz I'm mainly playing CS:GO and League, and I legitimately don't know if I need to install Nvidia PhysX or not for those games in particular.


Yes, Graphics Driver only, since I only play CS:GO.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Do you solely install the driver and nothing else? cuz I'm mainly playing CS:GO and League, and I legitimately don't know if I need to install Nvidia PhysX or not for those games in particular.


I'd recommend you install PhysX with the driver as well, since many games won't start without it and it would be a hassle and unnecessary to install it separately.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> I'd recommend you install PhysX with the driver as well, since many games won't start without it and it would be a hassle and unnecessary to install it separately.


Are you sure it won't affect the games that don't support it like League and CS? like dpc latency-wise (or changing cursor movement)? it won't increase it right if I let it installed?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Are you sure it won't affect the games that don't support it like League and CS? like dpc latency-wise (or changing cursor movement)? it won't increase it right if I let it installed?


The PhysX package in general is unlikely to increase DPC latency in any case, since it's only used when a game requests its library. There is no special service added that runs in the background. CS GO and other Source engine games do not use PhysX, but Havok physics engine. I doubt League of Legos uses any physics engine.


----------



## mrlimatic

okey so i changed my GPU to MSI-mode.
Overall performance is better,no huge fps drops at all and game stuttering is not often as it was,but my mouse sometimes was so fast and my aim is fcked.
Someone know,can MSI-mode causing mouse accelerating or something like this?


----------



## Zerrius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> okey so i changed my GPU to MSI-mode.
> Overall performance is better,no huge fps drops at all and game stuttering is not often as it was,but my mouse sometimes was so fast and my aim is fcked.
> Someone know,can MSI-mode causing mouse accelerating or something like this?


same thing happend to me when putting my GPU on msi-mode. my aim was all over the place and it felt like there was mouse acceleration\inpug lag higher than usual.
I ended up reverting it.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> The PhysX package in general is unlikely to increase DPC latency in any case, since it's only used when a game requests its library. There is no special service added that runs in the background. CS GO and other Source engine games do not use PhysX, but Havok physics engine. I doubt League of Legos uses any physics engine.


Alright thank's for clarifying.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> okey so i changed my GPU to MSI-mode.
> Overall performance is better,no huge fps drops at all and game stuttering is not often as it was,but my mouse sometimes was so fast and my aim is fcked.
> Someone know,can MSI-mode causing mouse accelerating or something like this?


It does something kinda similar to me when I enable MSI-Mode on my GTX 760. Thought I was alone.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> okey so i changed my GPU to MSI-mode.
> Overall performance is better,no huge fps drops at all and game stuttering is not often as it was,but my mouse sometimes was so fast and my aim is fcked.
> Someone know,can MSI-mode causing mouse accelerating or something like this?


Anyone can expln me, what is MSI mode doing?! Its look like new placebo. And what u mean: sensivity become more faster or more smoothed/more lag? In 1st var. you have fast boost and you need lower sens. In 2 var. you add more latency/lag to cursor movements. Need expln more precisely your feelings!


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> Anyone can expln me, what is MSI mode doing?! Its look like new placebo. And what u mean: sensivity become more faster or more smoothed/more lag? In 1st var. you have fast boost and you need lower sens. In 2 var. you add more latency/lag to cursor movements. Need expln more precisely your feelings!


You're looking for an explanation in a thread where it's also been claimed that different boot modes affect mouse movement.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> You're looking for an explanation in a thread where it's also been claimed that different boot modes affect mouse movement.


In that thread many variants of optimization, but 70% of them is useless. For the interest, i ask, what do MSI mode, which can be turn on regedit. I know PCI-e mode, PEG mode in BIOS, about MSI mode i do not hear)


----------



## Zerrius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> I know PCI-e mode, PEG mode in BIOS


care to explain?


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zerrius*
> 
> care to explain?


No







So, i try to add MSI mode via regedit by device id and no difference


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> In that thread many variants of optimization, but 70% of them is useless. For the interest, i ask, what do MSI mode, which can be turn on regedit. I know PCI-e mode, PEG mode in BIOS, about MSI mode i do not hear)


http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044


So,for me, my gpu id will be that?


----------



## mrlimatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rty345*
> 
> So,for me, my gpu id will be that?


u have utility for switching things into MSI-mode in the end of post.


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrlimatic*
> 
> u have utility for switching things into MSI-mode in the end of post.


Yes, thanks, i see. I try


----------



## noshalans

Hello guys and sorry for my bad english.

Disabling HPET in both BIOS and Windows, gave me 4-5 frames per second loss.

For example, if I was able to run CS:GO to 200 FPS (stable), now is somehow capped to 195 FPS.

This also happens in other games i tried, like COD:BO2.

Is it a known issue?

Another question, for a Win7+GTX970 user, are better 344.11 or 344.16? cache shader ON or OFF?

Thanks!


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noshalans*
> 
> Hello guys and sorry for my bad english.
> 
> Disabling HPET in both BIOS and Windows, gave me 4-5 frames per second loss.
> 
> For example, if I was able to run CS:GO to 200 FPS (stable), now is somehow capped to 195 FPS.
> 
> This also happens in other games i tried, like COD:BO2.
> 
> Is it a known issue?
> 
> Another question, for a Win7+GTX970 user, are better 344.11 or 344.16? cache shader ON or OFF?
> 
> Thanks!


Disabling HPET may or may not be a good decision. Some systems run better with it on, some do not (mostly based on motherboard). I recommend you benchmark and test several more games and applications and decide for yourself.

As to the video driver, I've heard good things about 344.11, but personally I have made good experiences with 347.25, which has shown to be really good performance-wise. If you want a more recent driver, try 353.47 Hotfix. The most recent drivers like branches 355 and 358 all come with tradeoffs.

No idea about shader cache. I can only think of positive effects (such as performance benefits), but people in here swear by the guru's words and turn it off without actually doing any testing.


----------



## altf4

But what's the point turning on hpet in bios ? Windows automatically uses TSC


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> But what's the point turning on hpet in bios ? Windows automatically uses TSC


As with all things in life, your mileage may vary. Tweaks that may work out well for you might not for others and vice versa.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noshalans*
> 
> Hello guys and sorry for my bad english.
> 
> Disabling HPET in both BIOS and Windows, gave me 4-5 frames per second loss.
> 
> For example, if I was able to run CS:GO to 200 FPS (stable), now is somehow capped to 195 FPS.
> 
> This also happens in other games i tried, like COD:BO2.
> 
> Is it a known issue?
> 
> Another question, for a Win7+GTX970 user, are better 344.11 or 344.16? cache shader ON or OFF?
> 
> Thanks!


Look up your motherboard, and see what other people have determined to be the best. According to a few sources when I researched this, leaving it default in Windows (TSC), is best.

Shader Cache should be on, as it helps. It caused stutters and what not for me with NVIDIA 337.88 WHQL, which was the first driver that allowed you to change Shader Cache on/off, but drivers after that it doesn't do that.

Every setup responds differently I believe, so it's best to do some benchmarking and test a few different Drivers. Popular top choices would be: 344.11 WHQL, 347.09 BETA, 347.25 WHQL, 353.38 Hot Fix. I think 344.16 WHQL is basically the same as 344.11, but for the GTX 960/970. I list 347.25 & 353.38, due to the "THE GTX 780 TI & SLI - END OF LIFE - DRIVER PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS" blog. Check it out, he tests a bunch of drivers and lists the results.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Disabling HPET may or may not be a good decision. Some systems run better with it on, some do not (mostly based on motherboard). I recommend you benchmark and test several more games and applications and decide for yourself.
> 
> As to the video driver, I've heard good things about 344.11, but personally I have made good experiences with 347.25, which has shown to be really good performance-wise. If you want a more recent driver, try 353.47 Hotfix. The most recent drivers like branches 355 and 358 all come with tradeoffs.
> 
> No idea about shader cache. I can only think of positive effects (such as performance benefits), but people in here swear by the guru's words and turn it off without actually doing any testing.


Did you mean 353.38 Hotfix? I've been debating testing out 347.25 WHQL again, check out the link I posted above, he ran single GPU tests and SLI tests, so there's tons of data for a bunch of drivers.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Did you mean 353.38 Hotfix? I've been debating testing out 347.25 WHQL again, check out the link I posted above, he ran single GPU tests and SLI tests, so there's tons of data for a bunch of drivers.


353.38 is basically the same as 353.47 - same branch, version a little later though as there were some fixes made due to program incompatibilities like Sony Vegas. Essentially the same as 353.38.
Ran 347.25 for a while as well and found no major problems except for a little lower overclock.

Yes, I'm aware of the link which has been incredibly helpful in choosing the right driver. I rebenched with my GTX 780 and by and large came up with the same results.
I hope that dude updates his post sometime, if he still has that 780 Ti.
All later drivers are a no-no for me as they refuse to work with some older games I still play.

I should also mention that at least for me, there we no major differences in tested DPC latency across several driver branches. 347.25 tested as well as 353.38. Not sure about the newer drivers, though.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> 353.38 is basically the same as 353.47 - same branch, version a little later though as there were some fixes made due to program incompatibilities like Sony Vegas. Essentially the same as 353.38.
> Ran 347.25 for a while as well and found no major problems except for a little lower overclock.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of the link which has been incredibly helpful in choosing the right driver. I rebenched with my GTX 780 and by and large came up with the same results.
> I hope that dude updates his post sometime, if he still has that 780 Ti.
> All later drivers are a no-no for me as they refuse to work with some older games I still play.
> 
> I should also mention that at least for me, there we no major differences in tested DPC latency across several driver branches. 347.25 tested as well as 353.38. Not sure about the newer drivers, though.


I spoke to him a few weeks ago, he encountered some PC issues unfortunately. Hopefully he gets his PC up and running again soon.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I think the best solution for most situations is to have HPET enabled in BIOS, but not forced as the only system timer in Windows (bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock in cmd prompt gives element not found when HPET is not being forced on or off by the OS).

While having HPET enabled or disabled in BIOS typically gives a nominal % difference in FPS, having it enabled can have very positive effects on USB polling precision, making it much more consistent and lower maximum deviation. This is quite easy to test on your own system with MouseTester if you know a good general method for getting a polling precision graph.

If polling precision has visually appreciable improvement, it's more than worth losing a few FPS, even though you may very well gain FPS with HPET enabled. Furthermore, my DPC latency was more consistent with a lower average with HPET enabled, even though disabled would give a good proportion of lower DPC latency measurements, but significantly more variance.

The reason HPET enabled but not forced is generally better is because since Vista, Windows is actually pretty intelligent about selecting the optimal timers to use for various tasks and functions. There are numerous routines and calls that are more efficient when they can use HPET, and processors generally are much more efficient about changing power states, even from the lightest non full operation _C1_ state.

Still, some systems just seem to disagree completely with HPET enabled. Really there are only two common reasons that you would want HPET disabled. One is if it gives *noticeable* stuttering (you'll know if it is, trust me), which can often be visualized by fluctuations or spikes in DPC latency. The other is if it is giving you a hit on FPS of > ~5%, at which point the lost FPS is probably not worth the other advantages of having HPET enabled.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I think the best solution for most situations is to have HPET enabled in BIOS, but not forced as the only system timer in Windows (bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock in cmd prompt gives element not found when HPET is not being forced on or off by the OS).
> 
> .


How would one go about this


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Your motherboard has the option to Enable HPET from the BIOS or UEFI.

After you've changed this and rebooted into Windows, hit Win + R, type cmd, hit enter, copy the code below, right-click in the cmd prompt and choose Paste, and hit enter to execute.

Code:



Code:


bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

If you get a message ending with 'Element not found', it was already set correctly. Other messages indicate you've successfully change HPET from being forced on or off by the OS.


----------



## r0ach

Just ordered what I consider one of the most interesting pieces of hardware out right now, so will be doing a review soon after it gets here in like a week:

*Onda v919 Core M*

http://www.banggood.com/Onda-V919-3G-Intel-Core-M-5Y10c-Dual-Core-2_0GHz-9_7-Inch-Win8-Tablet-p-988289.html

It's the same screen as an Ipad except with Intel Core M internals. There's been many tablets in China released like this before, but they all used Bay Trail and Cherry Trail SoC, which is 1/2 as powerful as the Core M.

The first reason this tablet is interesting is because most tablet and laptop screens look terrible. They either have terrible contrast and colors, or a huge gap between the touch surface and screen which gives it a bad white haze that also makes you go crosseyed looking at it. The third problem most have is pulse width modulation, a strobing 200hz that usually gives you a huge headache after 5 minutes.

Out of all tablet screens, only the Surface 3 pro, Ipad screen, and Samsung AMOLED screens actually look good. The Surface 3 pro has PWM under 55% brightness, meaning you're forced to use it at 200cdm2, and the Samsung has PWM at all levels, leaving the Ipad screen as the only known good one.

For the older Bay Trail and Cherry Trail tablets, the most demanding thing they can run really is just the PSP emulator. The Core M can run most PS2 and Wii emulator games, while also playing games like Resident Evil 5, Skyrim, Tomb Raider, etc, at 45-60 FPS at 720p resolution, or games like League of Legends at 60 fps with 1080p on medium. So it has just enough power to do some interesting stuff.

Picture of some other guy benching it below. In comparison, the best Intel Atom gets 900-1000 single core score, an i3-4020Y Surface 3 Pro gets 1550, and a 15w TDP broadwell i3-5200u in newest laptops gets 2200.



All Chinese tablets are known to be a lottery where some have problems and some don't, but here's the pluses and minuses of this one.

*Plus*

- About as good as you can get for screen

- If you have the balls to open it, it has a real m.2 SSD instead of emc, so you can upgrade it to one of the 256GB ones while also having an SSD card slot for a total of 384 gigs of storage (might be a 512g version too, but not sure at the smallest m.2 size).

- BIOS is supposedly fully unlocked even exposing things like overclocking settings

- Can dual boot Win 10 + Android 5

- Probably the most powerful x86 device you can get in the smallest form factor

- Best thing I've seen for creating an all in one console emulator box

*Minuses*

- The default BIOS has a setting where the CPU throttles to 800mhz if the tablet surface reaches 40c. You need to raise it higher to prevent throttling.

- Reports of both Wifi and Bluetooth dropping a lot in versions at release. People surmised that the manufacturer forgot to plug in the antennas or something. Not sure if this is still a problem.

- Some come with only Win 10 in Chinese, or Win 10 + Android 5 in Chinese. Some even send you a KMS Win 10. If you try to change language, it won't boot, so you need to install your own Win 8.1, Win 10, or Ubuntu with USB stick. If you install Windows 10 English within Chinese Windows via USB stick and don't touch partitions, supposedly the Android dual boot functionality will stay.

- The Android 5 it comes with is in Chinese (but can be changed to English), but supposedly doesn't come with Gapps installed, and is difficult but possible to get it installed. The device doesn't appear when connected to a host computer via USB so will be hard to root as well. It's possible a good Android ROM could be created for it by a 3rd party since it's been done for the Chinese Teclast Air II Bay Trail tablet.


----------



## Trull

I'll never understand why people don't buy directly from Taobao. I mean, 'banggood.com'? Really..?









This tablet on Taobao -> $295
This tablet on 'banggood.com' -> $365










But it looks very exciting, I might grab one myself as my first tablet.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I'll never understand why people don't buy directly from Taobao. I mean, 'banggood.com'? Really..?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This tablet on Taobao -> $295
> This tablet on 'banggood.com' -> $365
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it looks very exciting, I might grab one myself as my first tablet.


Never ordered anything from Taobao, probably because it looks like they only accept the Yuan and the entire site is in Chinese and I can't read it? lol

Banggood is the only reputable vendor I can find for that particular tablet. There's a few other places that sell it for less, but they're scammers. Even the domain "http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v919-3g-core-m-tablet-pc.html" that sells it isn't even owned by the company Onda, it's a 3rd party that just took their name as the domain.

You really have to look out when ordering Chinese stuff. Banggood is the only place that has an actual return policy and customer service I can find.


----------



## r0ach

Oh yea, if anyone was wondering, I've tried all Nvidia drivers up to 355.98 and it's junk heh. Everything after 350.12 went drastically downhill response-wise. 344.11, 344.16, 347.09 beta (not whql), and 350.12 are still the only usable ones out.


----------



## CookieBook

What about 347.25 and 347.52, I've found those to be really excellent aswell.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Never ordered anything from Taobao, probably because it looks like they only except the Yuan and the entire site is in Chinese and I can't read it? lol
> 
> Banggood is the only reputable vendor I can find for that particular tablet. There's a few other places that sell it for less, but they're scammers. Even the domain "http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v919-3g-core-m-tablet-pc.html" that sells it isn't even owned by the company Onda, it's a 3rd party that just took their name as the domain.
> 
> You really have to look out when ordering Chinese stuff. Banggood is the only place that has an actual return policy and customer service I can find.


Ordering in Yuan is no issue, it's all silver. And you don't need to read Chinese to be able to order from Taobao... even Google Translate does the job.

In Taobao/Tmall (Tmall is the real deal) you get to buy directly from Onda, by the way. They even link you to it on Onda's website... There is buyer protection and a return policy, plus the guarantee that you're buying from the source. If you buy it from a 3rd party that isn't Onda for extra money, that's the real scam because you're paying more money for nothing, and who knows if they'll actually respect the warranty, the return policy, etc. The website you pointed out is dodgy, but they never tell you that they're Onda and it's obvious that they're not. Is it a scam? I don't know, but at the very least they're charging more money for the same thing, which is what 'banggood.com' and a crap-ton more websites like that are doing. The best way to avoid things like that is to buy straight from the source... and obviously it's cheaper.

That tablet is $300 if you buy it from Onda. So only $5 more than the cheapest offering from another seller.


----------



## r0ach

I can't navigate tmall or taobao using google translate. It reformats and removes most elements from the screen like the click to buy boxes, so to do any purchase, you would need to use the normal Chinese page. It's probably possible to do a purchase with line by line translation, but then you have to hope someone from customer service speaks English if something goes wrong...


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I can't navigate tmall or taobao using google translate. It reformats and removes most elements from the screen like the click to buy boxes, so to do any purchase, you would need to use the normal Chinese page. It's probably possible to do a purchase with line by line translation, but then you have to hope someone from customer service speaks English if something goes wrong...


Works fine for me with Google Chrome... In the rare case that something goes wrong, there's a great chance that someone in customer service will speak at least basic English. You might not be as lucky if you contact them in Hungarian, though. And ultimately, maybe it's not counter-productive to learn a few Chinese characters to send a mental picture of what you mean. You don't need to learn ancient Chinese poetry, I promise.


----------



## PurpleChef

Great guide!

I have a igabyte GA-990XA-UD3 motherboard, and i was wondering for specific settings for BIOS optimization.

I also wonder, how are your resoults from all this tweaking? do you all agree on all BIOS settings?


----------



## Zerrius

Which driver is the best for AMD GPUs?
Back at 2013 I had amazing mouse reponse. Since 2014 it became utter sh**... I have a strong feeling that it's related to the display driver.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I think I found my problem - playing for 3 days than after I'm writing - looks solved and found 2 things in bios

I did OC before with XMP , manual and with AI Tweaker - never checked that setting before (marked in 2nd pic.)

My bios settings like this for now,







I'm using like this, didn't try XMP - I know my rams work at 2666Mhz. Anyway, when I changed BCLK FREQ. *AUTO* to *100:133* (2nd picture) problem disappeared. Never notice before, I think it always was AUTO. Also in bios, mouse works perfect. Didn't read something like this before or I didn't see. Bios shows my rams 2666Mhz - OS shows 2666Mhz; but if it is in auto mode, looks motherboard can'T understand real freq.

Also when I enable DMI (direct Media Interface) after 5-10 min game gets slow (like slow motion - BF4 Air Vehicles) I really don't know what for this DMI

For now game experience is really good.


----------



## Curleyyy

So I recorded my mouse movement in CS:GO using _iographica_ and I have no idea if this is what it's meant to look like or not, but it's kinda neat.
The wavy lines are when I'm in the desktop. I'm not sure if the menu of the game is also wavy, but when I'm playing it results in circles.

m_rawinput _"0"_
RInput - _Enabled._
Game Time - _9 min._
MarkC Mouse Fix - _Enabled._
EPP - _Off._



m_rawinput _"0"_
RInput - _Disabled._
Game Time - _3 min._
MarkC Mouse Fix - _Enabled._
EPP - _Off._


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I think I found my problem - playing for 3 days than after I'm writing - looks solved and found 2 things in bios
> 
> I did OC before with XMP , manual and with AI Tweaker - never checked that setting before (marked in 2nd pic.)
> 
> My bios settings like this for now,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using like this, didn't try XMP - I know my rams work at 2666Mhz. Anyway, when I changed BCLK FREQ. *AUTO* to *100:133* (2nd picture) problem disappeared. Never notice before, I think it always was AUTO. Also in bios, mouse works perfect. Didn't read something like this before or I didn't see. Bios shows my rams 2666Mhz - OS shows 2666Mhz; but if it is in auto mode, looks motherboard can'T understand real freq.
> 
> Also when I enable DMI (direct Media Interface) after 5-10 min game gets slow (like slow motion - BF4 Air Vehicles) I really don't know what for this DMI
> 
> For now game experience is really good.


What motherboard are you using?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Asus X99 Deluxe


----------



## baskinghobo

Do you think using a high windows sensitivity/acceleration makes it easier to notice these inconsistencies?

I know in ql there is this thing called the sens bug where your sens changes but everyone was divided about the issue because nobody could prove it. I was on the same boat and found it strange nobody could prove something as drastic as a sens change and i have been playing the game for like 5 years and never noticed a problem until one day i decided to use a very high sens/accel and noticed a huge change and fixed it by changing the usb port which is funny because one of the best pros in ql called rapha also uses a high sens/accel and fixes it this way.


----------



## lurker2501

Does enabling triple buffering in CCC add input lag in games?


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Does enabling triple buffering in CCC add input lag in games?


this option need for and when v sync enabled. v sync add horrible input lag. by default tripple buffering do not affect on mouse, i think


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Does Logitech software also incur these interpolations as mentioned in the OP?

I would be happy to uninstall it but sadly, I really like the bindings on my mouse


----------



## Rty345

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Does Logitech software also incur these interpolations as mentioned in the OP?
> 
> I would be happy to uninstall it but sadly, I really like the bindings on my mouse


You may save your settings in mouse memory. I uninstall LGS after all calibrations


----------



## pox02

if someone have P9X79

can you tell me if you can disable hpet usb3.0 and everything?


----------



## freddycatking

I discovered something interesting the other day;

Switching my keyboard from ps/2 adapter to regular USB made my mouse feel miles better... Plus (obviously) reduced input lag on the keyboard which helps a lot for counterstrike. I told my friend that I was using my keyboard keyboard with a ps/2 adapter and he said that was stupid and convinced me to switch back...

Can anyone test this more accurately? I'm very happy I discovered that because something about the ps/2 was bogging down my mouse.


----------



## lurker2501

What about dynamic storage accelerator on Gigabyte boards? ON or OFF?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> I discovered something interesting the other day;
> 
> Switching my keyboard from ps/2 adapter to regular USB made my mouse feel miles better... Plus (obviously) reduced input lag on the keyboard which helps a lot for counterstrike. I told my friend that I was using my keyboard keyboard with a ps/2 adapter and he said that was stupid and convinced me to switch back...
> 
> Can anyone test this more accurately? I'm very happy I discovered that because something about the ps/2 was bogging down my mouse.


Sounds like your kb doesn't support PS2 natively. You used a passive adaptor?

Could just be placebo, too.


----------



## kittinzaa

Most things I'm interesting is about ram timing can affect to the responsiveness
i've try it my self by set my RAM to 1066 with CL5 (normally I use 2400 CL10) mouse movement is a lot more better but your will lost some FPS or get some lag spike while running high bandwidth usage application due to lower RAM bandwidth.

but this things will work like a charm on some game like CSGO that not require high bandwidth so you 'll get better responsive without any downside this is huge advantage for competitive gamer like me and I never know this before.

Here is some more things you can disable to reduce inputlag



-High definition Audio Controller is the same things as Nvidia High Definition Audio so disable if you dont use it

-HPET for some motherboard that can't disable it in BIOS


----------



## freddycatking

Yeah it's a native USB keyboard, and definitively not placebo. I wasn't even expecting to feel the difference.


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> What about dynamic storage accelerator on Gigabyte boards? ON or OFF?


anyone?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> anyone?


Sounds like something that was better turned off. Just test it yourself if in doubt.


----------



## softskiller

What about secure boot when I only have Win 10.
Any negative effect of enabling it?

Somewhere I read that someone suggested to delete secure boot keys.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> anyone?


Disable it and use the "high performance" power plan instead.


----------



## KarathKasun

I love all of the things listed in here that people believe effects mouse responsiveness. Its like I've stepped back in time to the days of alchemy, witchcraft and superstition.

PS/2 keyboard + USB mouse is probably giving you issues because of polling speed discrepancies.
RAM running outside of the specifications of the CPU or RAM modules can contribute an increase in correctable memory writes/reads which adds latency.
Storage drivers polling the CPU too often can cause higher input latency because of the increase in context switching being performed.

The specific game can make a difference, which can be related to context switching as well. Some poorly coded multithread attempts will CS on scales you usually don't see outside of highly loaded database servers.

Most BIOS settings are placebo in this day and age. Its not like you can overclock the keyboard controller on a modern system like you could in the 1990's.


----------



## dandy-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> I love all of the things listed in here that people believe effects mouse responsiveness. Its like I've stepped back in time to the days of alchemy, witchcraft and superstition.
> 
> PS/2 keyboard + USB mouse is probably giving you issues because of polling speed discrepancies.
> RAM running outside of the specifications of the CPU or RAM modules can contribute an increase in correctable memory writes/reads which adds latency.
> Storage drivers polling the CPU too often can cause higher input latency because of the increase in context switching being performed.
> 
> The specific game can make a difference, which can be related to context switching as well. Some poorly coded multithread attempts will CS on scales you usually don't see outside of highly loaded database servers.
> 
> Most BIOS settings are placebo in this day and age. Its not like you can overclock the keyboard controller on a modern system like you could in the 1990's.


So what in your opinion are legitimate tweaks to input latency, since i cant wrap my head around even half of the stuff r0ach writes (as in, i cant believe it). Do you have any OS tweaks that could in theory reduce input latency?


----------



## KarathKasun

Get your framerates as high as possible, tweak the windows USB input polling speed, dont run RAID unless its on a high end controller with a dedicated processor.

The RAID thing is part of a more general attempt to offload as much as possible from the main CPU. More things along that line of thought would be a dedicated sound card that does not use the CPU for positional audio or effects. Remove any un-needed hardware/software when gaming (no misc USB devices attached etc). No game streaming, no browsers in the background, kill superfetch/windows search services and so on.

Another thing you could do would be pinning games to specific cores. You have to do this by trial and error though. Try pinning a game to two cores and see if performance is affected. If performance goes down, try three cores. The goal is to keep windows from thrashing the threads around from core to core as much. You can even take this to the extreme and pin ALL tasks to specific cores.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

How to pin games to 2 or 3 cores?


----------



## KarathKasun

Task manager, right click the process and set affinity. You have to go to the details tab in Windows 8-10.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys what do you think about pagefile usage. I did disable before (when system intsalled) and noticed strange thing in afterburner;



Marked place is about pagefile - if there is no pagefile, why shows pagefile usage (5000MB!?) or creates in where?

So did back system settings and I did create pagefile and let windows set it.

Back to game and more better!!? Here how it looks



Everybody says don't use pagefile if you have more than 8GB - or set it 2x of ram..... Should we use or not? I can say with this more better.

_System HDD - Kingston HyperX Savage 480gb_


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> I love all of the things listed in here that people believe effects mouse responsiveness. Its like I've stepped back in time to the days of alchemy, witchcraft and superstition.
> 
> PS/2 keyboard + USB mouse is probably giving you issues because of polling speed discrepancies.
> RAM running outside of the specifications of the CPU or RAM modules can contribute an increase in correctable memory writes/reads which adds latency.
> Storage drivers polling the CPU too often can cause higher input latency because of the increase in context switching being performed.
> 
> The specific game can make a difference, which can be related to context switching as well. Some poorly coded multithread attempts will CS on scales you usually don't see outside of highly loaded database servers.
> 
> Most BIOS settings are placebo in this day and age. Its not like you can overclock the keyboard controller on a modern system like you could in the 1990's.


No one in here "believes" anything. These are things that can potentially affect how the system responds, comparing it to overclocking keyboard controllers in the 90's is pointless and serves no purpose. When you state something like "most BIOS settings are placebo in this day and age", that's the sign of someone who believes what comes out of their mouth without any proof, and is trying to impose a supposed "truth".

The philosophy of the thread is basically along the lines of "if you don't need something, don't use it". Care to disproof that? You ain't getting no one to scream "SCIENCE!" with you.


----------



## ThugWaffle

So have an asus z77 mother board, and I've done everything you've said. I get really bad number in dpc cheacker, but I get great numbers in latencymon. Whats the deal.


----------



## lurker2501

Am I doing it right?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Am I doing it right?


No, since you're using a program that has been known to output wrong figures on anything later than Windows 7.

Use LatencyMon.


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> No one in here "believes" anything. These are things that can potentially affect how the system responds, comparing it to overclocking keyboard controllers in the 90's is pointless and serves no purpose. When you state something like "most BIOS settings are placebo in this day and age", that's the sign of someone who believes what comes out of their mouth without any proof, and is trying to impose a supposed "truth".
> 
> The philosophy of the thread is basically along the lines of "if you don't need something, don't use it". Care to disproof that? You ain't getting no one to scream "SCIENCE!" with you.


Do you have hard proof that the BIOS settings do anything? Have you spent the money for testing equipment to validate your results? If not the results are purely subjective. Tools operating within the system itself are largely incapable of giving you a input to screen change delay figure as they do not control the screen or any of the other myriad of factors involved.


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> No, since you're using a program that has been known to output wrong figures on anything later than Windows 7.
> 
> Use LatencyMon.


ok. Are these numbers good?


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Do you have hard proof that the BIOS settings do anything? Have you spent the money for testing equipment to validate your results? If not the results are purely subjective. Tools operating within the system itself are largely incapable of giving you a input to screen change delay figure as they do not control the screen or any of the other myriad of factors involved.


Doesn't change the fact humans have the required finesse in their combination of senses to feel the difference.

Also disabling power states in BIOS to disable CPU throttling itself down is beneficial on almost any given software including games.


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Doesn't change the fact humans have the required finesse in their combination of senses to feel the difference.
> 
> Also disabling power states in BIOS to disable CPU throttling itself down is beneficial on almost any given software including games.


And human senses are... subjective. Otherwise everyone would complain about input latency and nobody would use a TV as a gaming monitor.

CPU frequency scaling is not nearly the problem it was 5-10 years ago, and you dont have to touch the BIOS to change that behavior in most cases.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Do you have hard proof that the BIOS settings do anything? Have you spent the money for testing equipment to validate your results? If not the results are purely subjective. Tools operating within the system itself are largely incapable of giving you a input to screen change delay figure as they do not control the screen or any of the other myriad of factors involved.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Most BIOS settings are placebo in this day and age.


I'm not the one trying to convince people about something that obviously can't be measured with "hard proof" by anyone in their bedroom. Not sure why you're attacking me and talking about "my results" when I haven't provided any. You want to believe that your bloated Windows OS and your bloated motherboard have no impact on system response? You want to believe that LCD's are fine and the death of CRT is justified? You're free to do so, but why do you come here after 200+ pages to call people medieval dimwits, when you have as much "hard proof" as anyone about any of this?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThugWaffle*
> 
> So have an asus z77 mother board, and I've done everything you've said. I get really bad number in dpc cheacker, but I get great numbers in latencymon. Whats the deal.


Only use latencymon, DPC latency checker has always been worse, and is now massively out of date too.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> ok. Are these numbers good?


Should let it run for 15~ min at least, just browse the net and whatever you normally do while its running

People that only lets it run for a few mins on complete idle arent trying to get any useful info, just stat padding because some crazy russian guy knifed them in aztec in 2001, and they cant get it out of their heads, thus they now need to do some sort of ritual.


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Should let it run for 15~ min at least, just browse the net and whatever you normally do while its running
> 
> People that only lets it run for a few mins on complete idle arent trying to get any useful info, just stat padding because some crazy russian guy knifed them in aztec in 2001, and they cant get it out of their heads, thus they now need to do some sort of ritual.


This is after 2h normal use. I did everything in the guide including tweaks for Win 10. I also have all the power states off as well as the latest bios. CPU never throttles even under full load. So what is the problem?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> This is after 2h normal use. I did everything in the guide including tweaks for Win 10. I also have all the power states off as well as the latest bios. CPU never throttles even under full load. So what is the problem?


Hard to say, did you have a look in the processes tabs and whatnot?


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Hard to say, did you have a look in the processes tabs and whatnot?


What should I look for? Here's the processes window:


----------



## Axaion

Hope you took a picture of driver window too

Dont see anything wrong, a few pagefaults but nothing that screams "oh no im broken"


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Hope you took a picture of driver window too
> 
> Dont see anything wrong, a few pagefaults but nothing that screams "oh no im broken"


Here it is:


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I'm not the one trying to convince people about something that obviously can't be measured with "hard proof" by anyone in their bedroom. Not sure why you're attacking me and talking about "my results" when I haven't provided any. You want to believe that your bloated Windows OS and your bloated motherboard have no impact on system response? You want to believe that LCD's are fine and the death of CRT is justified? You're free to do so, but why do you come here after 200+ pages to call people medieval dimwits, when you have as much "hard proof" as anyone about any of this?


Where does that program display input latency? Oh wait, it doesn't. Not to mention the fact that most of the people here don't know exactly what they are looking at in that application. Its just another "lower is better" benchmark to them. The OS and drivers are an order of magnitude more detrimental to system response times than BIOS settings. The problem in lurkers case looks like the terrible C-Media audio drivers, and by extension the Windows Kernel Mode Driver Framework libraries.

A CRT inherently has a faster response time being an analog system, but its size and power consumption are not worth the minuscule benefit. Not to mention issues with phosphor decay times, susceptibility to electrical interference and magnetic interference.

The delay in the DSP in your mouse and display controller in you monitor are probably the best things to attack before you go rooting around in the BIOS.

An interesting fact, the average response time of the human brain to visual stimuli is nearly a quarter of a second. Thats 250ms or 250,000μs. The lower end of the bell curve is at around 100ms or 100,000μs. You are talking about optimizing out MAYBE 500μs of latency, which is beyond the realm of humanly perceptible. The time for the neural impulses to reach the brain become a bottleneck at these scales.

If your reaction time is quicker than about 0.1, you are mentally doing the action before you receive the input. The brain is great at this kind of interpolation if the activity is a known quantity. The "Christmas tree" in drag racing is a good example of this.

TL;DR : consistency is more important than absolute input delay.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Where does that program display input latency? Oh wait, it doesn't. Not to mention the fact that most of the people here don't know exactly what they are looking at in that application. Its just another "lower is better" benchmark to them. The OS and drivers are an order of magnitude more detrimental to system response times than BIOS settings. The problem in lurkers case looks like the terrible C-Media audio drivers, and by extension the Windows Kernel Mode Driver Framework libraries.
> 
> A CRT inherently has a faster response time being an analog system, but its size and power consumption are not worth the minuscule benefit. Not to mention issues with phosphor decay times, susceptibility to electrical interference and magnetic interference.
> 
> The delay in the DSP in your mouse and display controller in you monitor are probably the best things to attack before you go rooting around in the BIOS.
> 
> An interesting fact, the average response time of the human brain to visual stimuli is nearly a quarter of a second. Thats 250ms or 250,000μs. The lower end of the bell curve is at around 100ms or 100,000μs. You are talking about optimizing out MAYBE 500μs of latency, which is beyond the realm of humanly perceptible. The time for the neural impulses to reach the brain become a bottleneck at these scales.
> 
> If your reaction time is quicker than about 0.1, you are mentally doing the action before you receive the input. The brain is great at this kind of interpolation if the activity is a known quantity. The "Christmas tree" in drag racing is a good example of this.
> 
> TL;DR : consistency is more important than absolute input delay.


Ah, the old human brain response time/human perception argument. You know, for a random guy who comes here to decisively call 200+ pages of content witchcraft, you seem to have missed the pages where that over-played argument has been debunked again and again, together with the rest of the pages that actually discuss pretty much everything that you have mentioned, and other things that you probably don't know the first thing about. And there are other threads, too.

But anyway, I don't get why you're trying to engage with me in this quest of yours full of "probablies" and rear-end absolute statements all together. I only responded to your comment because someone was actually showing faith towards your "knowledge" after you threw a sweet in their general direction.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Ah, the old human brain response time/human perception argument. You know, for a random guy who comes here to decisively call 200+ pages of content witchcraft, you seem to have missed the pages where that over-played argument has been debunked again and again, together with the rest of the pages that actually discuss pretty much everything that you have mentioned, and other things that you probably don't know the first thing about. And there are other threads, too.
> 
> But anyway, I don't get why you're trying to engage with me in this quest of yours full of "probablies" and rear-end absolute statements all together. I only responded to your comment because someone was actually showing faith towards your "knowledge" after you threw a sweet in their general direction.


Just because I like fueling fires (and also taking dumps on tinfoil hatters, but nevermind that), I feel the need to point out that the claim "it exists because I feel it exists" is not actually "debunking" anything.

200+ pages of people saying something hardly makes it true. The Flat Earth Society is testament to that fact, as is the existence of a market for $100k audio cables that are made from "Hyper Crystals", the number of people who still believe Obama is a Muslim from Kenya, etc.

Now, that said, there is certainly a certain level of benefit to be had from certain BIOS tweaks, hardware choices, software/OS configurations, etc.... What that level is however, is highly situational, and the vast majority of the time is well below any actual human perception or practical application, and often comes at a cost of actual useable features. But hey, feel free to game on a potato because it has a lower latency than a typically configured modern computer


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> TL;DR : consistency is more important than absolute input delay.


With that said, people can easily differentiate 15-20 ms click delay on any mouse if you put them side by side (the number going as low as 5 ms for some people). So yea even the difference were to be 500 microseconds, I'd say it's a valid gain.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Here it is:


Looks fine to me, probably some random power saving feature or something weird giving you that small spike.

I doubt it has any effect however


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> With that said, people can easily differentiate 15-20 ms click delay on any mouse if you put them side by side (the number going as low as 5 ms for some people). So yea even the difference were to be 500 microseconds, I'd say it's a valid gain.


5ms = 5000μs. 500μs is literally an order of magnitude smaller than 5ms. Once you can maintain FPS in the hundreds (eliminating the delay in presenting the frame from the GPU to the display controller) the best thing to do is to get the response time flat. If the response time is always the same you will have a better playing experience because there is less guesswork in figuring out how to time your reactions.

If you can shave ~2ms off of your inherent system latency, but it causes a 1ms variance... you have not really improved the situation.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I don't want to participate in this argument as it is already ebola enough as is, but one thing I'd like to note is that some people like to conclude that a particular optimization is worthless or imperceptible if it's only saving 500μs or 1ms. But the point of a good full-system optimization is that you are making 500μs, 250μs, 2ms improvements many, many times over.

So by the time you're done, you can easily make a difference on the order of tens of milliseconds, which is easily perceptible imo to those with fine enough motor skills and good hand-eye coordination.

Personally I find the difference in playing CS:GO on a fresh, untouched install versus a rigorous optimization (hardware/firmware/BIOS/drivers/OS/software/settings) to be shocking.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Just because I like fueling fires (and also taking dumps on tinfoil hatters, but nevermind that), I feel the need to point out that the claim "it exists because I feel it exists" is not actually "debunking" anything.
> 
> 200+ pages of people saying something hardly makes it true. The Flat Earth Society is testament to that fact, as is the existence of a market for $100k audio cables that are made from "Hyper Crystals", the number of people who still believe Obama is a Muslim from Kenya, etc.
> 
> Now, that said, there is certainly a certain level of benefit to be had from certain BIOS tweaks, hardware choices, software/OS configurations, etc.... What that level is however, is highly situational, and the vast majority of the time is well below any actual human perception or practical application, and often comes at a cost of actual useable features. But hey, feel free to game on a potato because it has a lower latency than a typically configured modern computer


_A wild Zero4549 appears._

The human perception argument has been debunked, shall I repeat it again before you feel the need to take a dump all over the place? It's not an "it exists because I feel it exists" counter-argument. But don't take my word for it, go read it about it yourself.

Never said anything similar to 200+ pages "of people saying something making it true", I was obviously referring to the fact that the guy clearly didn't read any of them. But tell us more about The Flat Earth Society or any other easy targets, since you're so eager to share it with us for apparently no reason.

Now you're saying something about my computer being a potato or whatnot, but why can't it be a cucumber?







My computer is better than yours, and obviously cucumbers are better than potatoes. That's ok, you determine what is right for you, and other people will determine what is right for them. There's no need to get all snarky and potatoey about it. "







"


----------



## KarathKasun

Yes, all the little things can add up, but if you are trying to squeeze 500μs latency out of a system for input latency... I call BS. Just like the "platinum crystal core" HDMI/digital audio/ethernet cables, once you get all of the bits from point A to point B there is no increase in quality, no matter how drenched in snake oil the cables are. I would challenge you to a double blind research study to see if you could even detect some of these "optimizations", but I lack the resources to set such a study up.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> I would challenge you to a double blind research study to see if you could even detect some of these "optimizations", but I lack the resources to set such a study up.


Again, it seems you missed the point. Many or most individual optimizations would probably not be detectable in a blind test, but the accumulated effect of many, many good optimization choices would almost certainly be detectable in-game for a highly skilled/experienced player imo.

There's a segment of OCN posters who seem to have a deep-seeded resentment for experimental tweakers/optimizers, whose attitude seems invariably to be to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I find it very strange.


----------



## KarathKasun

No, that was my point. Comparing mildly tuned (good KB, mouse, monitor, service tweaking) to neurotically tuned (that plus BIOS and high end internal peripherals).

The tweaking/tuning of things down to the microsecond in latency is a very good skill for some things. Clusters would be a good example, but Windows is usually not used in that space. Live production audio/video systems would be another. Games are just not a use case scenario that is 500μs sensitive.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> No, that was my point. Comparing mildly tuned (good KB, mouse, monitor, service tweaking) to neurotically tuned (that plus BIOS and high end internal peripherals).
> 
> The tweaking/tuning of things down to the microsecond in latency is a very good skill for some things. Clusters would be a good example, but Windows is usually not used in that space. Live production audio/video systems would be another. Games are just not a use case scenario that is 500μs sensitive.


There's this, (let's call it "1") as well as two other aspects.

2 - Many proponents of this particular line of optimization believe that every last microsecond not only matters, but is more important than any other factor. How many times have we heard r0ach or one of his followers claim "you need to be blind and have no arms not to XYZ"? It is truly laughable that shaving off 2 microseconds (by itself) could have any real impact, or that it is more important than a player's skill, comfort, or ability to have things like working audio output or the ability to use their printer.

3 - The double standards and hypocrisy of many members of the DLC latency reduction cult creates conflict and invites attack, regardless of the actual intent. People have an inherent disdain of bigotry, and until certain members realize that, anything they say (as helpful as it may be in certain scenarios) will be largely ignored or even seen as deliberately misleading.

But hey, like I said, I'm just here to start fires.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> The tweaking/tuning of things down to the microsecond in latency is a very good skill for some things. Clusters would be a good example, but Windows is usually not used in that space. Live production audio/video systems would be another. Games are just not a use case scenario that is 500μs sensitive.


I can mostly agree with your points here, but input latency isn't the only domain that I target with tweaking/tuning/optimizing. USB polling precision is a very real, demonstrable, and measurable factor that can be greatly affected by even minor tweaks. For instance, simply disabling HPET in one of your dreaded BIOS settings, my USB polling precision is worsened by about a half order of magnitude. And USB polling precision directly affects quality of the translation of physical mouse movement to cursor movement, which can be equally important with input latency as far as the "cursor feel" on screen.

Some other target domains are reducing transients in rendering and mouse input, where the average effects of a tweak/optimization may be negligible, but momentary degradations are minimized.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> 2 - Many proponents of this particular line of optimization believe that every last microsecond not only matters, but is more important than any other factor. How many times have we heard r0ach or one of his followers claim "you need to be blind and have no arms not to XYZ"? It is truly laughable that shaving off 2 microseconds (by itself) could have any real impact, or that it is more important than a player's skill, comfort, or ability to have things like working output or the ability to use their printer.
> 
> 3 - The double standards and hypocrisy of many members of the DLC latency reduction cult creates conflict and invites attack, regardless of the actual intent. People have an inherent disdain of bigotry, and until certain members realize that, anything they say (as helpful as it may be in certain scenarios) will be largely ignored or even seen as deliberately misleading.


Very reasonable and well-spoken points. But I think the problem behind many of the conflicts is that several members make their own implications in situations like you described in "2". Just because someone values input latency as the gold standard for gaming related optimizations doesn't mean that they consider it a more important factor than player skill, experience, or comfort.


----------



## Versus2190

Quote:


> 15) HPET (High Precision Event Timer) - disable to dramatically lower mouse lag and DPC latency


I bought a new pc about a week ago, disabled HPET, installed windows 7 and was disappointed how incredible heavy the cursor felt and how bad the hit registration was. It was like windows 10 cursor three times worse. A few days ago "VolsAndJezuz" posted:
Quote:


> I think the best solution for most situations is to have HPET enabled in BIOS, but not forced as the only system timer in Windows (bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock in cmd prompt gives element not found when HPET is not being forced on or off by the OS).


So I decided to try it out and enabled HPET in Bios. "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock" gave me an error, which means enabled, right? and the cursor feeling didn't change.
There was one option left, which is "*bcdedit /set useplatformclock true*", it forced the OS to use hpet. This command gave me much better cursor feeling and better hit registration.
DPC Latency is about 10 us higher.


----------



## KarathKasun

HPET is one of those things that will give you better consistency, that is why you can "feel" it. Granted Ive only ever seen that option in stand alone motherboards and disabling it causes all kinds of compatibility problems. In my experience anyway.


----------



## Zerrius

when I enable HPET it feels like my mouse is all over the place... it even goes wilder when I force it through OS.


----------



## Zero4549

Not all clocks are made the same, mobo-mounted or otherwise. Mobos with flakey real time clocks will have flakey performance with HPET.


----------



## freddycatking

What do people think of fullscreen VS noborder? Noborder "feels" faster but is it actually better/more consistent?


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> What do people think of fullscreen VS noborder? Noborder "feels" faster but is it actually better/more consistent?


Same question for Battlefield 4.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> What do people think of fullscreen VS noborder? Noborder "feels" faster but is it actually better/more consistent?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Same question for Battlefield 4.


Usually fullscreen is better. But of course both have pros and cons.


----------



## kittinzaa

borderless = force Vsync since windows 8


----------



## DrSebWilkes

does it really?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> borderless = force Vsync since windows 8


Does it really?


----------



## kittinzaa

yup since windows 8 all apllication in windows mode will force Vsync due to desktop composition ,you can google about it some people have asked Microsoft to make a way to disable this feature or try it yourself that you'll never notice tearing in windows mode or borderless


----------



## Trull

It's not VSync, it's double buffering. You can still get rid of it by killing DWM, though. But it's a bit tricky to do so and it will create graphical bugs.

Anyway, the guy who asked - he didn't say what OS he was using, so I assumed 7.


----------



## KarathKasun

Double buffering does not enforce vsync. Triple buffering OTOH does.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> What do people think of fullscreen VS noborder? Noborder "feels" faster but is it actually better/more consistent?


noborder/fullscreen(windowed) will drop frames, which is good for input latency but bad for smoothness when compared to fullscreen vsync. It's randomly 0 to 1 refresh cycle higher latency than fullscreen with vsync off.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Double buffering does not enforce vsync. Triple buffering OTOH does.


Nope. Just tried it and it doesn't. Wouldn't make sense, anyway.

In any case, DWM uses double buffering like I said.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> noborder/fullscreen(windowed) will drop frames, which is good for input latency but bad for smoothness when compared to fullscreen vsync. It's randomly 0 to 1 refresh cycle higher latency than fullscreen with vsync off.


You're talking gibberish.


----------



## KarathKasun

Any 3D application uses DB primarily, as you cant use single buffering and get usable output. TB enforces vsync and eliminates tearing at the cost of input latency.

MS DWM is double buffered in addition to the games double buffered render output. Even if the game is given priority above normal applications this results in a TB setup, DB game gets composited into the DWM buffer.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You're talking gibberish.


If v-sync is on in fullscreen mode, and you have a new frame finish rendering before the previous frame is sent to the monitor, it just sits there until after the first frame is displayed, and the entire graphics pipeline backs up like a traffic jam. In a windowed mode, the compositor just takes the most recent completed frame. If your framerate is over your refresh rate, this means some frames get rendered but not displayed. So you get additional judder up to 1/framerate and input latency up to 1/refresh rate, but no tearing. it's roughly equivalent to v-sync on with an unsynchronized in-game framerate cap, except your system has to work harder rendering frames that never get displayed.


----------



## PurpleChef

What would be the optimal settings?
If i choose "override application settings" for example anti-aliasing, i can only choose 2X-8xEQ
Does "Frame rate target control" give input lag?

Really dont like this new UI









Edit: Since so many nerds follow this thread, im also interested in your guys thoughts on TCP Optimizer, and if its necessary on Windows 10 or not. Mostly play csgo (but dont want to **** up twitch with some settings)
Im on vdsl, speed 31/5


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> 
> What would be the optimal settings?
> If i choose "override application settings" for example anti-aliasing, i can only choose 2X-8xEQ
> Does "Frame rate target control" give input lag?
> 
> Really dont like this new UI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Since so many nerds follow this thread, im also interested in your guys thoughts on TCP Optimizer, and if its necessary on Windows 10 or not. Mostly play csgo (but dont want to **** up twitch with some settings)
> Im on vdsl, speed 31/5


calling people nerds is not likely to get you any positive feedback, normie
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Get a mac


----------



## PurpleChef

How is nerd something negative? a nerd for me is something GOOD. I love nerds!!!
I am a proud nerd!!!


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Does "Frame rate target control" give input lag?


If you want to limit framerate in CS:GO, do it in game with fps_max.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1381&start=270#p15668


----------



## tekwiz99

excerpt from Wikipedia:

Nerd (adjective: nerdy) is a descriptive term, often used pejoratively, indicating that a person is overly intellectual, obsessive, or *lacking social skills*....

we all have life, mouths to feed, family to look after...and for the sake of OC community, please be considerate


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> excerpt from Wikipedia:
> 
> Nerd (adjective: nerdy) is a descriptive term, often used pejoratively, indicating that a person is overly intellectual, obsessive, or *lacking social skills*....
> 
> we all have life, mouths to feed, family to look after...and for the sake of OC community, please be considerate


Please note the operative word *OR* in that wiki article. Also remember that wiki is publicly editable.


----------



## softskiller

Nothing wrong with "Nerd", what if he said "Computer Freaks"? Isn't it true that those of us who spend 100s of hours with fine tuning, software tweaking and benchmarking are nerdy or pc freaks compared to people who for example use the graphics driver that comes with the CD of their card and never ever update anything or change any settings?


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> 200+ pages of people saying something hardly makes it true. The Flat Earth Society is testament to that fact, as is the existence of a market for $100k


Holy crap that's a real site lol.

Anyhow this is mine, no tweaks and don't intent to read through this. I love the passion on this thread though. Firefox loves to make pagefault hits.


----------



## x7007

What can I do if I have 3770K Asus P8Z77-V and the 1000 usb polling issue when CPU Load Calibration is enabled ( 1100-2500 frequency ). Currently I have 4.3 Ghz 1.255 Manual Cpu Voltage with LLC set Ultra High 75% is boosting to 1.265 max. If I use LLC Regular the Vdroop goes to 1.18 which is not enough and I have WHEA CPU errors in Event log .

How can I overclock without the LLC which screwing the mouse usb polling because the feeling without LLC is so big.

EDIT

How can I fix the USB Polling issue which I don't remember happening in windows 7 or many things I've changed since including drivers / OS / Bios settings and added hardware to PCIE socket.

Could it only a USB device that causing the problem ? or other device no excluded anything else.

Currently now I've tried CPU Voltage on Offset at 0.85 and it is exactly the voltage I had with Manual 1.255-1.248 with LLC Disabled. so it should be better like that it seems, the polling does seem to jump more than 1150 at the moment and the mouse movement feels better.

I'm using X.M.P memory profile with EIST Enabled , Offset Cpu Clock , LLC Regular which means disabled . CPU FSB is set to 100.0 in bios - CpuZ shows 99.98 , Aida64 shows 100.0 but randomly changes to 102.98 or 103.40 or so. Can anyone explain why and how to fix it ? I think this is why I have those small jumps. Those jumps as I am checking with PRIME95 blend test, it could happen without Burn Test or Load test, but it might happens more when on Load. the CPU clock stays 4.3-4.299 but windows Task Manager shows between 4.24 - 4.27 , I can't figure why every program shows something different .

Does anyone knows why randomly my CPU FSB changing and how to fix it ? and what should be the CPU Phase in the CPU advantage DIGI-VRM settings, Asus says when using Offset to put Phase control on Standard or Optimized on ROG motherboards. Could any of this settings cause this jump ?
CPU Power Phase Control - Extreme
CPU Power Duty Control - Extreme
CPU Power Response Control - Regular
Dram Voltage Frequency - Auto
Dram Power Phase Control - Extreme


----------



## KarathKasun

LLC should not affect the USB polling at all.
And AFAIK, LLC is never truly disabled. Its just a modifier on the VRM feedback loop.

Base clock changing randomly could be a setting in the BIOS somewhere, something like auto overclock/performance enhancement.

What issue exactly are you having with the polling rate set at 1k?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> LLC should not affect the USB polling at all.
> And AFAIK, LLC is never truly disabled. Its just a modifier on the VRM feedback loop.
> 
> Base clock changing randomly could be a setting in the BIOS somewhere, something like auto overclock/performance enhancement.
> 
> What issue exactly are you having with the polling rate set at 1k?


hard to explain especially me cause english is not main .

it's kind of the mouse floating with air bags and some low to high overshoot, it happens a lot more in windows , less feeling in games, but I'm sure I would be having better time if it didn't at all and in games it will be a lot more better. I can feel it a lot more in skyrim with all the smoothing and prenderer 1 + ingame vsync disable + fps lock at 65 with asus gpu tweak 2. I just remember I had 1000 hz in windows 7, I don't remember why or how because I changed so many things, but I'm 100% sure that in windows 7 skyrim was bullzeye with the settings I set for the mouse, I could hit an arrow to the knee from 1 km away









People say LLC does mess up the usb polling , maybe roach can tell us more about it ? Regular meaning it is disabled or Vdroop enhancement is disabled meaning 0%

but I can't find what else is messing with the BCLK . no one has an idea with the Asus P8Z77-V something they tested ?

Does X.M.P does that or anything else ?


----------



## KarathKasun

Make sure to disable "enhance pointer precision" in windows mouse settings screen.

I use a high DPI mouse with the DPI settings maxed out and sensitivity settings almost at their lowest and have no problems.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Make sure to disable "enhance pointer precision" in windows mouse settings screen.
> 
> I use a high DPI mouse with the DPI settings maxed out and sensitivity settings almost at their lowest and have no problems.


it is disabled as the MouseMovementRecorder_1.8_20120923x says

People says it's the firmware that causing that, at least the newest .

Does anyone else while Prime95 Blend test with SUM (INPUTS) error checking and Round off Checking checked/enabled have this weird errors with every program I use ? Event Name: RADAR_PRE_LEAK_64 in the event viewer , for example the program that already runs has this but they working fine all the time, no crash or anything even though there is the error in event viewer . I entered a game Thief while prime 95 and it shows it again
Quote:


> "RADAR is an automatic Memory Leak Detection Tool from Microsoft. The use this to detect memory leaks. Memory leak here refers to a software problem, for example, when a program memory, this however does not release properly again. I have this message personally never seen, although I also play Diablo. 3 I'm not sure how far the tool is engaged, the possibly even by a driver or utility (z. B. macro control of the mouse / keyboard) are caused."


Nothing, absolutely nothing is crashing, everything works fine , keeps running and closing/reopening it again works the same for me.

I mean it's something because of the memory checking ?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: RADAR_PRE_LEAK_64
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: Shipping-ThiefGame.exe
P2: 1.7.0.0
P3: 10.0.10586.2.0.0
P4:
P5:
P6:
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: AppHangXProcB1
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: explorer.exe
P2: 10.0.10586.0
P3: 5632d4c0
P4: f6a4
P5: 134218276
P6: soffice.bin
P7: 5.0.3.2
P8:
P9:
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: APPCRASH
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: GPUTweakII.exe
P2: 1.1.5.4
P3: 563c6b3b
P4: Vender.dll
P5: 1.1.2.4
P6: 5617238f
P7: c0000005
P8: 0000cd8b
P9:
P10:


----------



## KarathKasun

Your OC is not stable.

If not overclocked, your voltage is drooping too much.


----------



## lurker2501

Do USB 2.0 hubs cause input lag? I posted a screenshot recently of LatencyMon showing spikes with usb 2.0 driver. Might a usb hub be the cause? Also what is kernel driver framework runtime?


----------



## KarathKasun

Define spikes? Remember than LatencyMon reports in MICRO SECONDS.

USB hubs will cause a bit of signal delay, but it wont show up in LatencyMon. That program only measures things going on in the CPU, not other things.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Your OC is not stable.
> 
> If not overclocked, your voltage is drooping too much.


I tried again with LLC Ultra High and Voltage manual 1.255 and it still shows the same errors.. is it memory errors cause it could be because the X.M.P or 100/100 cpu/mem ratio.

Voltage is not the issue 100% cause it's randomly shows the errors exactly on the same time no matter what voltage I've used before, it shows it after restart after couple of minutes.

It seems like those errors happened once and windows just want to report them again for some reason, I've cleared them from the event viewer and I'll see if they return. I repeat they always the same errors and maybe some random one.

http://answers.ea.com/t5/Dragon-Age-Inquisition/Dragon-Age-Inquisition-APPCRASH-and-BEX64/td-p/4050813 this is kinda the error I'm getting including BEX

EDIT :

For now it seems that long ago I tried to install TeamViewer Monitor driver and I selected no, and it might have tried to install it but errored out, I tried to install it again and all errors showed up again, so I Installed it properly and uninstalled it and I'll check now. For now it was never was overclock issue.


----------



## KarathKasun

That link does not go anywhere for me, just the Origin store.

If you are seeing random errors in some apps, its time to start doing a shakedown of your system. Check SMART indicators, 12-24h loop of memtest, 8 total hours of prime using different settings as well as AVX linpack or IBT. Sounds a bit harsh, but with the lack of info I would probably just hit it with the full battery of tests at this point. I would probably even have some DMM's monitoring the PSU rails for droop. After everything is confirmed to be in spec I would hit the system with a fresh install of Windows in whatever flavor you want along with known issue free drivers. Then proceed from there.

Ive seen odd issues like you are experiencing caused by HDD corruption which was induced by the wonderful Intel SATA driver set. AFAIK that issue was related specifically to the 7 series chipsets (z77/x79 and the like) but it could extend to others. And I would still like to confirm system stability before pinning it on the chipset drivers.

I have also seen HDD corruption caused by voltage fluctuations in the AC grid. Had issues with drives dropping out recently, ended up being a faulty wall outlet that no longer made good contact with the plug. Voltage was dropping to 90 or so in a 115v system. The PSUs 5v rail was dropping to ~4v because of this and causing the HDDs to reset every so often. Soon after this Windows ended up throwing errors because it had corrupted some of the registry and other system files (write caching guarantees corruption in the event of write interruption). Fixed the plug, reinstalled windows, performance is back to where it is supposed to be.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> That link does not go anywhere for me, just the Origin store.
> 
> If you are seeing random errors in some apps, its time to start doing a shakedown of your system. Check SMART indicators, 12-24h loop of memtest, 8 total hours of prime using different settings as well as AVX linpack or IBT. Sounds a bit harsh, but with the lack of info I would probably just hit it with the full battery of tests at this point. I would probably even have some DMM's monitoring the PSU rails for droop. After everything is confirmed to be in spec I would hit the system with a fresh install of Windows in whatever flavor you want along with known issue free drivers. Then proceed from there.
> 
> Ive seen odd issues like you are experiencing caused by HDD corruption which was induced by the wonderful Intel SATA driver set. AFAIK that issue was related specifically to the 7 series chipsets (z77/x79 and the like) but it could extend to others. And I would still like to confirm system stability before pinning it on the chipset drivers.
> 
> I have also seen HDD corruption caused by voltage fluctuations in the AC grid. Had issues with drives dropping out recently, ended up being a faulty wall outlet that no longer made good contact with the plug. Voltage was dropping to 90 or so in a 115v system. The PSUs 5v rail was dropping to ~4v because of this and causing the HDDs to reset every so often. Soon after this Windows ended up throwing errors because it had corrupted some of the registry and other system files (write caching guarantees corruption in the event of write interruption). Fixed the plug, reinstalled windows, performance is back to where it is supposed to be.


. Even thought it is always the same errors after restart ? I even had some errors to no existed files which wasn't even in the folder it said. I hardly believe it is hdd , the errors always pon point to the files on the ssdc. Like teamviewer , logitechregistr.exe service. Teamviewer monitor for some reason I can't get red of its thing . it could be Intel drivers because I need to use 12.9.4.100 of APM issue with Samsung 1000sj in raid. Smart is fine for all. I did a scan with SFC scannow and it did find many error and fixed them. But the error still keep coming even without stability load test. Every restart. And some random or steady intervals after. Maybe it's because I have the Intel extensions protection disabled in bios dep ?


----------



## KarathKasun

The only way to really fix the corruption is to format, reinstall, and be VERY picky about what SATA driver you use. If you are indeed on a 7 series motherboard and want %100 reliable SATA and RAID, get a dedicated SATA/RAID controller, preferably one with its own processor/cache/memory. The pricing for those is fairly steep though, at $150+ for a low end model.

The cheap Marvell/SI controller based cards work, but are slower.

SFC can not fix all of the errors, only errors in MS files that it has original copies of. It can NOT fix the registry or 3rd party extensions to windows.

Some may think that ditching the Intel SATA controller is a bit much, but data is important enough that I would rather not risk it again once I was burned.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> The only way to really fix the corruption is to format, reinstall, and be VERY picky about what SATA driver you use. If you are indeed on a 7 series motherboard and want %100 reliable SATA and RAID, get a dedicated SATA/RAID controller, preferably one with its own processor/cache/memory. The pricing for those is fairly steep though, at $150+ for a low end model.
> 
> The cheap Marvell/SI controller based cards work, but are slower.
> 
> SFC can not fix all of the errors, only errors in MS files that it has original copies of. It can NOT fix the registry or 3rd party extensions to windows.
> 
> Some may think that ditching the Intel SATA controller is a bit much, but data is important enough that I would rather not risk it again once I was burned.


Ye but it doesn't seem the issue you had, it just seem like the same errors all the times. formatting is really the last thing to do in this case. this error is long ago before I did the Offset test and I checked Prime95 28 Hr Blend with the manual before. so it's something in windows , but this kind of errors are visible in my windows 8.1 like windows update failed and such.

I'll reenable the intel DEP and check again.


----------



## KarathKasun

The problem I had was not due to overclocking, and the errors were recurring.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> The problem I had was not due to overclocking, and the errors were recurring.


Can you tell me if you get this errors too ?

The following boot-start or system-start driver(s) did not load:
dam
EhStorClass

I'm not sure if I can disable them. I think the EhStorClass doesn't work because of Asus USB3 Boost which makes the USB to SCSI with UASP support which load this driver, since I uninstalled Asus USB3 Boost driver the USB is normal and not SCSI.

But I'm not sure why this dam.sys is not working. Maybe because I disable Standby or Hibernation or something else ?

Those errors are like complaining for files not exists at all.

it says


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: BEX
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: TeamViewer_Desktop.exe
P2: 10.0.47484.0
P3: 55f2f269
P4: TeamViewer_Desktop.exe
P5: 10.0.47484.0
P6: 55f2f269
P7: 0036d24f
P8: c0000409
P9: 00000007
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: BEX64
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: svchost.exe
P2: 10.0.10586.0
P3: 5632d7ba
P4: pcasvc.dll_unloaded
P5: 10.0.10586.0
P6: 5632d5b9
P7: 0000000000003502
P8: c0000005
P9: 0000000000000008
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: PnPDriverImportError
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

That's TeamViewer Monitor driver which I accidentally clicked installed, it asked to install driver which I didn't and ever since it shown up even after uninstalled from anywhere possible.

Problem signature:
P1: x64
P2: E0000243
P3: tvmonitor.inf
P4: bec7f73c3cc5ad3baa94aaca124a1565f79150f0
P5:
P6:
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: APPCRASH
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: LogiRegistryService.exe
P2: 8.76.155.0
P3: 564f8cbe
P4: ntdll.dll
P5: 10.0.10586.20
P6: 56540c3b
P7: c0000005
P8: 0000000000022ef7
P9:
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: PnPDriverImportError
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: x64
P2: E0000243
P3: tvmonitor.inf
P4: bec7f73c3cc5ad3baa94aaca124a1565f79150f0
P5:
P6:
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:

This is DVDFAB Virtual Drive SCSI CDROM DRIVE which stopped working for some reason but after reinstalling it works but the error keep showing.
Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: PnPDriverNotFound
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: x64
P2: root\vdrive
P3:
P4:
P5:
P6:
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: MoAppHang
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: Microsoft.Windows.ShellExperienceHost_10.0.10586.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy
P2: praid:App
P3: 10.0.10586.0
P4: 5632d93d
P5: 3dd1
P6: 4194304
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:



But I have Team_Viewer version 11... so it's not possible that Teamviewer 10 even ever ran while this error came up.

This happens every restart after 5 minutes since rebooting. it always happens after
The Windows Security Center Service has started.
Successfully scheduled Software Protection service for re-start at 2016-01-12T06:05:08Z. Reason: RulesEngine.
The Software Protection service has stopped.


----------



## KarathKasun

BEX = buffer exception

Memory corruption of file corruption.

Can be hardware or software caused.
IE hardware failure or an active virus trying to patch running software.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> BEX = buffer exception
> 
> Memory corruption of file corruption.
> 
> Can be hardware or software caused.
> IE hardware failure or an active virus trying to patch running software.


It doesn't happen in safe mode. I have eset 9 newest. Can't see it is hardware issue at the moment if it doesn't happen in safe mode and no errors happened in prime95/blend more then 8 hr last time I checked couple days ago.

I FIXED THE ERROR in Windows 10 :

Start > gpedit.msc > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Error Reporting > Configure Error Reporting - Disable

This caused the errors to stop, they were old errors that windows tried to send and to upload to microsoft which couldn't because I blocked it from telemetry.

They just were old errors, which kept been on the list

Or set it like this which I'm not sure if it's the same

1.Configure Error Reporting (do not collection additional files, do not collect additional machine data).
2.Disable Windows Error Reporting.
3.Disable logging.
4.Do not send additional data.


----------



## chuckiz

Hello guys my problem is that I can't change scaling mode from GPU to Display I have windows 7 ultimate driver 344.11 i tried reinstall Drivers,OS everything my monitor is samsung 2233RZ @ 120hz it look like this http://imgur.com/VLTQHmh (not my pic) Help please


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> It doesn't happen in safe mode. I have eset 9 newest. Can't see it is hardware issue at the moment if it doesn't happen in safe mode and no errors happened in prime95/blend more then 8 hr last time I checked couple days ago.
> 
> I FIXED THE ERROR in Windows 10 :
> 
> Start > gpedit.msc > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Error Reporting > Configure Error Reporting - Disable
> 
> This caused the errors to stop, they were old errors that windows tried to send and to upload to microsoft which couldn't because I blocked it from telemetry.
> 
> They just were old errors, which kept been on the list
> 
> Or set it like this which I'm not sure if it's the same
> 
> 1.Configure Error Reporting (do not collection additional files, do not collect additional machine data).
> 2.Disable Windows Error Reporting.
> 3.Disable logging.
> 4.Do not send additional data.


So W10 was re-posting them to the event logs?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> So W10 was re-posting them to the event logs?


Exatcly , that's what I've been saying. nothing to do with hardware or software . just annoying Microsoft settings


----------



## lurker2501

Do you need to disable HPET in device manager in addition to command line? Also, Gigabyte Z87 chipset boards don't have HPET option whatsoever.


----------



## sndri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Do you need to disable HPET in device manager in addition to command line? Also, Gigabyte Z87 chipset boards don't have HPET option whatsoever.


Tbh I believe you don't want to be disabling hpet. I got giga z87 chipset motherboard as well with no hpet option in bios and if I disable hpet via cmd, it's a disaster for my gaming performance and I strongly believe the same goes for you. I bet your much better off with hpet rather than TSC


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sndri*
> 
> Tbh I believe you don't want to be disabling hpet. I got giga z87 chipset motherboard as well with no hpet option in bios and if I disable hpet via cmd, it's a disaster for my gaming performance and I strongly believe the same goes for you. I bet your much better off with hpet rather than TSC


Can you elaborate? I tried playing BF4 with HPET on and off and noticed no difference.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sndri*
> 
> Tbh I believe you don't want to be disabling hpet. I got giga z87 chipset motherboard as well with no hpet option in bios and if I disable hpet via cmd, it's a disaster for my gaming performance and I strongly believe the same goes for you. I bet your much better off with hpet rather than TSC


I thought it was the other way around and you better with HPET off on Z87 gigabyte motherboards, I'm so confused right now...


----------



## sndri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Can you elaborate? I tried playing BF4 with HPET on and off and noticed no difference.


cs go here, and if I disable hpet in cmd, ( bcdedit delete...clock ) cs go starts to stutter heavily and my fps has imploded and I just feel like Im on some ancient gig really.
Maybe there is something that I'm missing. Got no idea why my cpu behaves like that with hpet disabled. I aint no expert in this unfortunately.


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sndri*
> 
> cs go here, and if I disable hpet in cmd, ( bcdedit delete...clock ) cs go starts to stutter heavily and my fps has imploded and I just feel like Im on some ancient gig really.
> Maybe there is something that I'm missing. Got no idea why my cpu behaves like that with hpet disabled. I aint no expert in this unfortunately.


Just tested with BF4. FPS stays the same, no stuttering(single card). In terms of mouse movement it feels somewhat less muddy and restrained when you aim with HPET off. Maybe it's just placebo I don't know.


----------



## PurpleChef

Like said before in this thread i belive, hpet is off by default, atleast in win10.
Also said that you have to try with on/off to see what works best. Off should be best in theory.


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Like said before in this thread i belive, hpet is off by default, atleast in win10.
> Also said that you have to try with on/off to see what works best. Off should be best in theory.


Theoretically HPET should be on. HPET = High Precision Event Timer, it replaces legacy 16bit RTC hardware emulation.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Theoretically HPET should be on. HPET = High Precision Event Timer, it replaces legacy 16bit RTC hardware emulation.


Isn't it disabled defualt in Windows 10?

So you would recommed "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true" ?

Also got it disabled in BIOS


----------



## KarathKasun

I would turn it on in Windows and on the motherboard. There are some boards with flawed implementations though, so if it didnt work for you on a previous build you might try it again when you upgrade.


----------



## pox02




----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*


What have you done to get that low? followed all guide? plz share your knowledge


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> What have you done to get that low? followed all guide? plz share your knowledge


I thought that was normal while idling with HPET off? Not sure about other settings. Just look at what you need and turn off as much as possible outside of that.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I thought that was normal while idling with HPET off? Not sure about other settings. Just look at what you need and turn off as much as possible outside of that.


What OS you runing?

Ive been using win 10 for some months now but driver problems etc pissing me off








external soundcard from 2006 and still sounding better then the onboard one


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> What OS you runing?
> 
> Ive been using win 10 for some months now but driver problems etc pissing me off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> external soundcard from 2006 and still sounding better then the onboard one


I used 8.1 and 10 quite extensively and they're simply not worth the hassle. They're basically bloated versions of W7, even after tweaking. W7 is still not optimal, but it's the best by far. Otherwise forget about Windows. It's bound to die off sooner rather than later, anyway.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I used 8.1 and 10 quite extensively and they're simply not worth the hassle. They're basically bloated versions of W7, even after tweaking. W7 is still not optimal, but it's the best by far. Otherwise forget about Windows. It's bound to die off sooner rather than later, anyway.


Well from all the threads and info im installing 8.1 again. I don't have the knowledge or patience to learn Linux, even tho i would like to. Hard to learn old dogs to sit








Win 7 was so long ago i don't even remember how it was hehe, but since it wont recieve any updates its not interesting for me. Windows going in a sad direction tho. Lets pray ^^


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Well from all the threads and info im installing 8.1 again. I don't have the knowledge or patience to learn Linux, even tho i would like to. Hard to learn old dogs to sit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Win 7 was so long ago i don't even remember how it was hehe, but since it wont recieve any updates its not interesting for me. Windows going in a sad direction tho. Lets pray ^^


Windows 7 is instinctive for me, I've been using it since it came out. It's odd for me to see someone calling it old, but oh well.







It still receives regular updates btw, and will for a while, so I'm not sure what you mean.

Windows is going in a sad direction indeed, but I guess 8.1 is still okay (barely) if you know what you're doing. It's really 10 where things start to take a turn for the worse.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Windows 7 is instinctive for me, I've been using it since it came out. It's odd for me to see someone calling it old, but oh well.


It's the new XP, most people have moved on







(except the overly paranoid and of course tweakers who think Win8.1 / Win10 just suck). I posted my latency # few pages back, nothing wrong with Win10.


----------



## BradleyW

I like this thread but the OP needs an update. Some of the point arn't "as" valid with more recent chipsets and Windows 10.


----------



## PurpleChef

Like what?
Btw, how is Cool&Quiet and C6 affecting input/lags? can't choose if i want them enabled or disabled. I play 95% of the time, then i watch Twitch until i fall asleep


----------



## KarathKasun

If you want a space heater turn them off. They can cause input issues when you are giving the CPU an intermittent load. Ramping clocks/voltages up/down takes a bit of time, 50ms ballpark Id guess.


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Like what?
> Btw, how is Cool&Quiet and C6 affecting input/lags? can't choose if i want them enabled or disabled. I play 95% of the time, then i watch Twitch until i fall asleep


HPET - Now runs on an application level if requested. Most X99 boards and Windows 10 don't use HPET.
Dynamic Vcore, Turbo, C states and Speedstep are now optimized for worry free delay and performance. They increase DPC a little, but has no effect in real world usage.
Gen 3 PCI-E. Fine on Auto. Does not degrade performance or cause input delay.
IRST - Better to have the pre-install drivers installed instead of nothing at all.
Chipset drivers - Actually useful for Windows 10 on older chipsets. Increase performance, stability and allow everything to work as intended.
Execute disable bit, Intel Virtualization Technology - No effect on input. Little change to DPC.
USB 3.0 - No issues leaving this on Auto. USB 3.0 is well implimented on Z87 and higher. Even X79 USB 3.0 is more or less fine to use.
VRM's, power phases ect - Fine on Auto. No effect to mouse input or DPC.

The times have changed, and so has hardware and software implimentations.


----------



## KarathKasun

http://wiki.osdev.org/HPET

If there is no option, the system is HPET only. Its standard in ACPI 2.0.

TSC based counting is the default and HPET is the fallback. HPET should not be forced as the default timer in the OS.


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> http://wiki.osdev.org/HPET
> 
> If there is no option, the system is HPET only. Its standard in ACPI 2.0.


If the application calls for it. Not all programs use HPET timer.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> http://wiki.osdev.org/HPET
> 
> If there is no option, the system is HPET only. Its standard in ACPI 2.0.
> 
> TSC based counting is the default and HPET is the fallback. HPET should not be forced as the default timer in the OS.


Is is standard forced in Win 8.1, in other words, do i have to disable it? got it off in bios since install of OS

Thx for answers BradleyW


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Is is standard forced in Win 8.1, in other words, do i have to disable it? got it off in bios since install of OS
> 
> Thx for answers BradleyW


HPET is ON in the BIOS and OFF in Windows, for 7, 8.1 and 10. HPET only comes into action when an application calls for that timer. HPET in older systems such as P67/Z68 and Z77 suffered with DPC issues if HPET was ON in the BIOS. This is not the case with newer chipsets. In other words, don't mess with the HPET settings in Windows and leave it ON in the BIOS, only if it does not cause you clear and direct issues. Personally, as times have changed now and more information has been brought to the light, much of the OP is not accurate or relevant anymore. At the time, it was. OP needs a good update with actual data rather than one's experiences and perceptions on an isolated system.

The claims of phase power settings, Vcore settings and the differences of gen 2 vs gen 3 being related to the level of mouse delay or input change is just mind boggling. Where are the technical input response graphs, with each setting tested in contrast? Some of the OP is about as correct as mental health care in the 1800's.


----------



## KarathKasun

It is not the system clock source by default, it is available for use though.

If you disable HPET Windows falls back to some really old hacks when it needs that functionality. These older functions take twice as long to call.


----------



## PurpleChef

So we need a new, gaming optimization thread with all the good stuff, thats relevant!

Btw you guys use/think its nice with some win 8.1 tweaks to network settings? like this tcp optimizer stuff, is it nice for gaming?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> So we need a new, gaming optimization thread with all the good stuff, thats relevant!
> 
> Btw you guys use/think its nice with some win 8.1 tweaks to network settings? like this tcp optimizer stuff, is it nice for gaming?


This article is pretty good:

http://www.speedguide.net/articles/gaming-tweaks-5812


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> So we need a new, gaming optimization thread with all the good stuff, thats relevant!
> 
> Btw you guys use/think its nice with some win 8.1 tweaks to network settings? like this tcp optimizer stuff, is it nice for gaming?


I might have to make my own guide, but it would be extremely short since most of the stuff in the OP is a mixture of pure false statements and irrevelant statements.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> I might have to make my own guide, but it would be extremely short since most of the stuff in the OP is a mixture of pure false statements and irrevelant statements.


Looking forward to your gudie mate







when will it be released?








All this stuff is interesting tho. Alot of hours spent testing and reading. The more knowledge, the better.
Want my computer as optimized as possible (smooth with stuff i don't use/need) not only input lag/mouse response stuff.
Guess it would be healthy for my computer if i turn on C6/CoolNQuiet again, yeah? how bout C1? damn i need a new guide hehe


----------



## awkwardstevie

drivers for windows 8.1 and gtx660?
Any recommendations?
]
also : HPET on or off for xeon x3430 and Intel P55 motherboard?


----------



## Gonzalez07

placebo or not hpet enabled in bios(cant turn it off anyways) and disabled in windows feels best for me


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> placebo or not hpet enabled in bios(cant turn it off anyways) and disabled in windows feels best for me


I think that's the standard setup for most motherboards now. My Asus Z97-AR is the same. I tried Enabling it in Windows to test it out, my DPC Latency didn't really increase much, maybe 3-5us (10-20us average), but CS:GO felt like crap.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> Personally, as times have changed now and more information has been brought to the light, much of the OP is not accurate or relevant anymore. At the time, it was. OP needs a good update with actual data rather than one's experiences and perceptions on an isolated system.
> 
> The claims of phase power settings, Vcore settings and the differences of gen 2 vs gen 3 being related to the level of mouse delay or input change is just mind boggling. Where are the technical input response graphs, with each setting tested in contrast? Some of the OP is about as correct as mental health care in the 1800's.


Times haven't changed. This is a late 2013 thread. Very little has been brought to light since then. This was not one isolated system, either. I saw your "independent studies" and they're barely relevant at best. FPS tell us little to nothing about how a computer works. It can tell you how many FPS a computer is capable of rendering in a particular environment, and that's about it. And even then, data isn't reliable, and things like FPS variance are much more relevant. Input latency graphs for (some) settings were already done and debunked long ago.

The answer is: there is no answer. No one in their own home can apply a reliable scientific method that will clear all doubts (there is something, though, but I don't think I've seen it on this particular thread). Therefore, the closest thing we've got to certainty is a minimalistic approach, whereby you follow a _don't use what you don't need_ principle and essentially go by feel. Because there's no other choice.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Times haven't changed. This is a late 2013 thread. Very little has been brought to light since then. This was not one isolated system, either. I saw your "independent studies" and they're barely relevant at best. FPS tell us little to nothing about how a computer works. It can tell you how many FPS a computer is capable of rendering in a particular environment, and that's about it. And even then, data isn't reliable, and things like FPS variance are much more relevant. Input latency graphs for (some) settings were already done and debunked long ago.
> 
> The answer is: there is no answer. No one in their own home can apply a reliable scientific method that will clear all doubts (there is something, though, but I don't think I've seen it on this particular thread). Therefore, the closest thing we've got to certainty is a minimalistic approach, whereby you follow a _don't use what you don't need_ principle and essentially go by feel. Because there's no other choice.


I can test it, as can qsxcv. All you need is a photosensor and a microcontroller.. The settings that have a big impact are the things that change framerate or the things that change how far down the chain your bottleneck is(like v-sync or frate caps). plenty of other things too, but that's a product vs product comparison, not something you can do without comparing every mouse you're interested in


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I can test it, as can qsxcv. All you need is a photosensor and a microcontroller.. The settings that have a big impact are the things that change framerate or the things that change how far down the chain your bottleneck is(like v-sync or frate caps). plenty of other things too, but that's a product vs product comparison, not something you can do without comparing every mouse you're interested in


If you believe that then be happy with it, man. But that's not the truth. Unless you're measuring things like V-Sync or frame rate caps of course, which are obvious. This thread was never about the obvious.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> If you believe that then be happy with it, man. But that's not the truth. Unless you're measuring things like V-Sync or frame rate caps of course, which are obvious. This thread was never about the obvious.


I can measure end to end input latency with 4 microsecond resolution (~8us SEM) with a setup that cost under 50 bucks. Not exactly rocket science.


----------



## t1337dude

Did most of the suggestions in the OP's post and didn't see any input lag improvements. Not really surprised I guess.


----------



## KarathKasun

People here do not want your common sense approach. They enjoy their voodoo hand waving.


----------



## Rty345




----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I can measure end to end input latency with 4 microsecond resolution (~8us SEM) with a setup that cost under 50 bucks. Not exactly rocket science.


Okay, I guess? It's the same thing as the FPS thing, FPS and input latency barely tell us anything. It's variation that's important, and stability. But of course I won't argue that overall < latency and > FPS = better. No one is arguing that. Again, that's the obvious stuff.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> People here do not want your common sense approach. They enjoy their voodoo hand waving.


I hear common sense doesn't qualify as science. I don't know, maybe I'm the crazy one, Mr. Enlightened.

"_There's us, and there's them_" - Some idiot.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Okay, I guess? It's the same thing as the FPS thing, FPS and input latency barely tell us anything. It's variation that's important, and stability. But of course I won't argue that overall < latency and > FPS = better. No one is arguing that. Again, that's the obvious stuff.


You misunderstand. I set up the test, walk away for ten minutes, and come back to a few thousand data points. The only thing that doesn't get tested this way is the mouse or keyboard, which I can test separately.

Here's a graph: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ilWvmFLN1rXFluZ632vgZ1puUy6LyRVHgEL8MiYz7nE/pubchart?oid=1063989371&format=interactive

All your bios optimizations and setting tweaks fit inside that tiny bar on the far left, as does error in the test setup and the response time of my monitor and photoresistor. The standard deviation on that column is 294 microseconds (0.294 milliseconds). USB polling interval isn't included in that. It adds a random 0 to 1 ms on each sample, but I isolated it so I could measure it separately.


----------



## PurpleChef

§§
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> You misunderstand. I set up the test, walk away for ten minutes, and come back to a few thousand data points. The only thing that doesn't get tested this way is the mouse or keyboard, which I can test separately.
> 
> Here's a graph: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ilWvmFLN1rXFluZ632vgZ1puUy6LyRVHgEL8MiYz7nE/pubchart?oid=1063989371&format=interactive
> 
> All your bios optimizations and setting tweaks fit inside that tiny bar on the far left, as does error in the test setup and the response time of my monitor and photoresistor. The standard deviation on that column is 294 microseconds (0.294 milliseconds). USB polling interval isn't included in that. It adds a random 0 to 1 ms on each sample, but I isolated it so I could measure it separately.


what optimations do you recommend, and what not?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> §§
> what optimations do you recommend, and what not?


I recommend g-sync, freesync, or v-sync off, and I recommend an in-game framerate cap instead of letting yourself get GPU or display bottlenecked. For example, if your minimum framerate is 200 in a GPU limited game, cap it at say 190 in game for vsync off, or cap it just below your monitor's max refresh rate for gsync or freesync.

Framerate caps in conjunction with v-sync either do nothing(if the cap is over your refresh rate), or they reduce absolute latency while increasing variance and causing frame drops. That's not a tradeoff I like to make, so I usually go v-sync off instead of v-sync with framerate cap.

I don't recommend for or against any bios tweaks except overclocking and stuff required to make the machine function. I don't see much point chasing a few microseconds in the bios when there are several milliseconds to be gained elsewhere(the monitor is a prime example).

I don't recommend a driver or third party framerate cap unless you're using v-sync and your game doesn't have a built in framerate limiter.

It is possible for a game dev to implement vsync in a low latency fashion, but I'm not aware of any examples.


----------



## PurpleChef

So looking at your graph, locking fps to 145 @ 144hz monitor = more lag then uncapped fps?
Im thinking about CS GO settings. Does AA/AF give lags if fps is above 144 at all time?
1920x1080 res is nice, but feels so laggy when playing with it, even tho im above 144 all the time.
Just interested in as less latency as possible for all games, and all your opinions, facts and results


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> So looking at your graph, locking fps to 145 @ 144hz monitor = more lag then uncapped fps?


with vsync off, yes, if your framrate would be significantly higher without the cap, with vsync on, no, it wouldn't change anything.
Quote:


> Im thinking about CS GO settings. Does AA/AF give lags if fps is above 144 at all time?
> 1920x1080 res is nice, but feels so laggy when playing with it, even tho im above 144 all the time.
> Just interested in as less latency as possible for all games, and all your opinions, facts and results


Not sure about specific settings on your machine. If it causes a change in framerate, it can cause a change in latency. If it's causing you to become gpu limited, then using fps_max just below the minimum framerate can reduce latency by a few milliseconds.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> You misunderstand. I set up the test, walk away for ten minutes, and come back to a few thousand data points. The only thing that doesn't get tested this way is the mouse or keyboard, which I can test separately.
> 
> Here's a graph: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ilWvmFLN1rXFluZ632vgZ1puUy6LyRVHgEL8MiYz7nE/pubchart?oid=1063989371&format=interactive
> 
> All your bios optimizations and setting tweaks fit inside that tiny bar on the far left, as does error in the test setup and the response time of my monitor and photoresistor. The standard deviation on that column is 294 microseconds (0.294 milliseconds). USB polling interval isn't included in that. It adds a random 0 to 1 ms on each sample, but I isolated it so I could measure it separately.


A few thousands in ten minutes? Unless you're getting at least hundreds of thousands of data points (in that particular amount of time) for each setting that could have an impact on latency, I don't see how this level of accuracy is relevant beyond things that are obvious without any testing. This is why you see a deviation of 0 on your test, which is simply not possible.

In that document I can see the effect of V-Sync and frame rate caps on latency, I can't see anything else. That bar on the left might be bigger than meets the eye. Particularly if we're talking about variance and stability (again, deviation can't be 0). I don't know why you're calling it "my BIOS optimizations and setting tweaks" anyway, this is r0ach's thread, not mine.

Personally, you're not going to convince me that running a bunch of bloatware is the same as running no bloatware, I don't care how many tests that barely scratch the surface you do in your home.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> A few thousands in ten minutes? Unless you're getting at least hundreds of thousands of data points (in that particular amount of time) for each setting that could have an impact on latency, I don't see how this level of accuracy is relevant beyond things that are obvious without any testing. This is why you see a deviation of 0 on your test, which is simply not possible.
> 
> In that document I can see the effect of V-Sync and frame rate caps on latency, I can't see anything else. That bar on the left might be bigger than meets the eye. Particularly if we're talking about variance and stability (again, deviation can't be 0). I don't know why you're calling it "my BIOS optimizations and setting tweaks" anyway, this is r0ach's thread, not mine.
> 
> Personally, you're not going to convince me that running a bunch of bloatware is the same as running no bloatware, I don't care how many tests that barely scratch the surface you do in your home.


Maybe you should actually read the post? Or zoom in to the graph maybe. the test it's self was 2ms average 0.3ms standard deviation. As in, that's what the test setup manages with a very simple graphics program that gets several thousand fps. The entire point of that test is to eliminate as many variables as possible, so you know a difference in performance is coming from the one single setting you changed from the previous test run.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get "hundreds of thousands" of data points in ten minutes when there aren't necessarily that many frames rendered, and it takes multiple frames to get one sample. I'm also not sure how I'm supposed to "measure" several different settings at the same time.


----------



## error-id10t

It's because R0ach is gone and you've pretty much picked off where he left this thread.. fantasy land.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Maybe you should actually read the post? Or zoom in to the graph maybe. the test it's self was 2ms average 0.3ms standard deviation. As in, that's what the test setup manages with a very simple graphics program that gets several thousand fps. The entire point of that test is to eliminate as many variables as possible, so you know a difference in performance is coming from the one single setting you changed from the previous test run.
> 
> I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get "hundreds of thousands" of data points in ten minutes when there aren't necessarily that many frames rendered, and it takes multiple frames to get one sample. I'm also not sure how I'm supposed to "measure" several different settings at the same time.


The fundamental problem with your testing is that you say: "this doesn't include USB polling, which adds 1ms of latency" and then you leave it at that like it means something. You must test polling rate stability to be able to reach any sort of conclusion, it's not "it either adds 1ms of latency or it doesn't".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> It's because R0ach is gone and you've pretty much picked off where he left this thread.. fantasy land.


What are you doing here then, genius?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> The fundamental problem with your testing is that you say: "this doesn't include USB polling, which adds 1ms of latency" and then you leave it at that like it means something. You must test polling rate stability to be able to reach any sort of conclusion, it's not "it either adds 1ms of latency or it doesn't".


You don't understand what polling is then, USB input is gathered once every 1ms(on every gaming mouse anyway). if you press the button 1us after that happens, it adds 999us of latency, if you press the button 1us before that, it adds 1us of latency. On average it adds 0.5ms. I removed it because removing it increases the signal to noise ratio of the remaining data.

The exact way it works is I start counting the delay when the USB ISR on the microcontroller fires. The "stability" of the usb polling would be measuring the time from one usb poll to the next poll, which is consistently 1ms in my case.

To anyone that can tell the difference in mouse feel from 20us of dpc latency, this should be obvious.


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I recommend g-sync, freesync, or v-sync off, and I recommend an in-game framerate cap instead of letting yourself get GPU or display bottlenecked. For example, if your minimum framerate is 200 in a GPU limited game, cap it at say 190 in game for vsync off, or cap it just below your monitor's max refresh rate for gsync or freesync.


So when it's worth to completely uncap the FPS?

I generally cap my FPS just above my max value, instead of the minimum, because I don't like to make my video card hot without reason. Right now I'm playing Dirty Bomb, and that game doesn't have a separate cap for the main menu and/or loading screens, so it would get to like 400 fps or even more there. But in game my FPS is quite variable, so I don't know if it's better to cap at maximum FPS possible or at the minimum "consistent" value.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> The "stability" of the usb polling would be measuring the time from one usb poll to the next poll, which is consistently 1ms in my case.


It is not a consistent 1ms under any circumstances. Check with MouseTester, which generates actually useful data, and you'll see.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> It is not a consistent 1ms under any circumstances. Check with MouseTester, which generates actually useful data, and you'll see.


Okay, fine, it's consistently 1ms ± 4us. I already told you the microcontroller has a measurement resolution of 4 microseconds.


----------



## Zero4549

Shh, it's ok, don't feed the truolls.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Okay, fine, it's consistently 1ms ± 4us. I already told you the microcontroller has a measurement resolution of 4 microseconds.


So focus on this 4μs, instead of saying that it's 1ms ± 4μs and leaving it at that. Then you can start to come to somewhat of a conclusion.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Shh, it's ok, don't feed the truolls.


The only troll here is you, buddy. You're the definition of a troll, someone who appears out of nowhere to create trouble while bringing nothing of value.

Teenagers have taken over the internet, and you're the result. You're just trying to sound cute so that other teenagers can relate and you can laugh together. Your smirky statements will only appeal to other teenagers. For any adult, you're just a waste of time.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> So focus on this 4μs, instead of saying that it's 1ms ± 4μs and leaving it at that. Then you can start to come to somewhat of a conclusion.
> The only troll here is you, buddy. You're the definition of a troll, someone who appears out of nowhere to create trouble while bringing nothing of value.
> 
> Teenagers have taken over the internet, and you're the result. You're just trying to sound cute so that other teenagers can relate and you can laugh together. Your smirky statements will only appeal to other teenagers. For any adult, you're just a waste of time.


Considering I signed up here nearly 7 years ago, and the oldest a "teenager" can be is 19 (ignoring your juxtaposition of "adult" and "teenager", and the fact that in much of the world an 18 year old is considered an "adult"), I would have had to be 12 years old or younger when I signed up and built my sigrig "Arcane".

Now, considering I have a Core 2 Duo E6600 rig in my signature, and assuming I wouldn't have built an inferior system to one I already had in 2009, I had to have built my first computer when I was some time before I was 11 years old.

Diving deeper into my profile, one would find a Pentium 4 Prescott system. Making the same assumptions as above, as well as the fact that a P4 Prescott was only relevant between 2004 and 2005, I would then have to be a maximum of 8 years old when I built my first computer. This of course presumes that my oldest rig on this site is the first rig I built, which while untrue, is also understandable.

So with all that in mind, I'm glad you think so highly of me that I could have reasonable built a working computer at the age of 8. While certainly not a world record, it sure was quite impressive. I think I deserve those laughs with other teenagers, don't you?

Now, back in reality, exactly what value do you bring to this thread? That is your posited requisite for posting here, is it not? Perhaps the asinine statement that "real science" is only performed by "scientists", a group of users who are entirely exclusive from that of "forum posters"? Your stubborn insistence that nothing can be measured, simply because you yourself do not understand how to do so or what it is that is being measured? Your blind and hypocritical defense of claims that have absolutely no meaningful support or logic behind them, and which can be easily disproven with publicly available facts, mathematics, etc? I certainly do not think so... so what then? I really see nothing, not that

Oh.. yes, that's right. The value you bring is that wealth of logical fallacies that you can pile onto this thread that is already overflowing with them. Surely if enough people say enough nonsense, we can finally accomplish our goal here at OCN to obscure anything resembling truth, so keep on trucking Trull.









That said, I am of course a troll, so I will continue appealing to my fellow teenagers with cute and smirky truths and ruining all your fun attempts to make the process of building and optimizing a computer as incomprehensible and superstitious as possible. I know, I know, it really screws up the whole group think thing you have going on, but hey, it is how I get my kicks.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Considering I signed up here nearly 7 years ago, and the oldest a "teenager" can be is 19 (ignoring your juxtaposition of "adult" and "teenager", and the fact that in much of the world an 18 year old is considered an "adult"), I would have had to be 12 years old or younger when I signed up and built my sigrig "Arcane".
> 
> Now, considering I have a Core 2 Duo E6600 rig in my signature, and assuming I wouldn't have built an inferior system to one I already had in 2009, I had to have built my first computer when I was some time before I was 11 years old.
> 
> Diving deeper into my profile, one would find a Pentium 4 Prescott system. Making the same assumptions as above, as well as the fact that a P4 Prescott was only relevant between 2004 and 2005, I would then have to be a maximum of 8 years old when I built my first computer. This of course presumes that my oldest rig on this site is the first rig I built, which while untrue, is also understandable.
> 
> So with all that in mind, I'm glad you think so highly of me that I could have reasonable built a working computer at the age of 8. While certainly not a world record, it sure was quite impressive. I think I deserve those laughs with other teenagers, don't you?
> 
> Now, back in reality, exactly what value do you bring to this thread? That is your posited requisite for posting here, is it not? Perhaps the asinine statement that "real science" is only performed by "scientists", a group of users who are entirely exclusive from that of "forum posters"? Your stubborn insistence that nothing can be measured, simply because you yourself do not understand how to do so or what it is that is being measured? Your blind and hypocritical defense of claims that have absolutely no meaningful support or logic behind them, and which can be easily disproven with publicly available facts, mathematics, etc? I certainly do not think so... so what then? I really see nothing, not that
> 
> Oh.. yes, that's right. The value you bring is that wealth of logical fallacies that you can pile onto this thread that is already overflowing with them. Surely if enough people say enough nonsense, we can finally accomplish our goal here at OCN to obscure anything resembling truth, so keep on trucking Trull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said, I am of course a troll, so I will continue appealing to my fellow teenagers with cute and smirky truths and ruining all your fun attempts to make the process of building and optimizing a computer as incomprehensible and superstitious as possible. I know, I know, it really screws up the whole group think thing you have going on, but hey, it is how I get my kicks.


TL;DR.


----------



## PurpleChef

We need a 2.0 / 2k16 version of gaming and mouse optimization dudes!!! Anyone interested to make a new one/collab to make a new?

All non belivers and haters should make a new one, with the "facts" and contra stuff


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> So focus on this 4μs, instead of saying that it's 1ms ± 4μs and leaving it at that. Then you can start to come to somewhat of a conclusion.
> The only troll here is you, buddy. You're the definition of a troll, someone who appears out of nowhere to create trouble while bringing nothing of value.


That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm not going to focus on 1/250000 of a second of measurement resolution when there are other problems several orders of magnitude more significant(actual milliseconds!).

My conclusion is that my USB polling jitter is below the noise floor of my test setup, and the noise floor of my setup is several orders of magnitude below the latency variance of the game rendering pipeline.

Hell, I'll even post the source code for the USB poll measurement(using an arduino micro, a leonardo would work identically):

Code:



Code:


void setup() {
  Serial.begin(9600);
  Mouse.begin();
}

void loop() {
  Mouse.move(0,-1,0);
  Mouse.move(0,1,0);//generate usb mouse traffic so the ISR has something to send.
  Serial.println(lastTXInterval); //see modifications in USBCore.cpp and USBAPI.h
  delay(50);//wait for serial traffic to clear
}

The value of lastTXInterval comes from the two lines added to USBCore.cpp in the library(variable declaration not shown):

Code:



Code:


#ifdef CDC_ENABLED
                USB_Flush(CDC_TX);                              // Send a tx frame if found
                lastTXInterval = micros() - lastTX;
                lastTX = micros();
#endif

And this is what the output looks like:


OH NO, IT'S SO UNSTABLE!


----------



## PurpleChef

Do you ATI Radeon users use the http://www.radeonpro.info/ software on top of Crimson? is it worth for better fps/latency?

If i choose "Anti-aliasing Mode -> Overrider application settings" i can only choose 2X-8xEQ, cant choose "non" why is this?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm not going to focus on 1/250000 of a second of measurement resolution when there are other problems several orders of magnitude more significant(actual milliseconds!).
> 
> My conclusion is that my USB polling jitter is below the noise floor of my test setup, and the noise floor of my setup is several orders of magnitude below the latency variance of the game rendering pipeline.
> 
> Hell, I'll even post the source code for the USB poll measurement(using an arduino micro, a leonardo would work identically):
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> void setup() {
> Serial.begin(9600);
> Mouse.begin();
> }
> 
> void loop() {
> Mouse.move(0,-1,0);
> Mouse.move(0,1,0);//generate usb mouse traffic so the ISR has something to send.
> Serial.println(lastTXInterval); //see modifications in USBCore.cpp and USBAPI.h
> delay(50);//wait for serial traffic to clear
> }
> 
> The value of lastTXInterval comes from the two lines added to USBCore.cpp in the library(variable declaration not shown):
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> #ifdef CDC_ENABLED
> USB_Flush(CDC_TX);                              // Send a tx frame if found
> lastTXInterval = micros() - lastTX;
> lastTX = micros();
> #endif
> 
> And this is what the output looks like:
> 
> 
> OH NO, IT'S SO UNSTABLE!







Oh no, the Earth is so small! Therefore it isn't worthy of consideration!









You're choosing to ignore those 4μs because it's inconvenient and your testing setup is not accurate enough. Nothing more, nothing less. And I'll repeat it again, those things that are orders of magnitude more significant are the obvious stuff, that everyone and their mother already know. But if you want to be the guy going around telling people: "guyz, V-Sync iz bad. I tezted it, zo don't uze it!", then by all means do so.

"Stupidest thing I've ever heard". lol. Get over yourself.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, the Earth is so small! Therefore it isn't worthy of consideration!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're choosing to ignore those 4μs because it's inconvenient and your testing setup is not accurate enough. Nothing more, nothing less. And I'll repeat it again, those things that are orders of magnitude more significant are the obvious stuff, that everyone and their mother already know. But if you want to be the guy going around telling people: "guyz, V-Sync iz bad. I tezted it, zo don't uze it!", then by all means do so.
> 
> "Stupidest thing I've ever heard". lol. Get over yourself.


4us.... Windows is not an RTOS, there are no settings you can change to make it one. Yes it's obvious v-sync is bad, but it's NOT obvious that a framerate cap can significantly reduce latency with v-sync off(when gpu limited), nor is it obvious how different framerate cap implementations interact with v-sync. Not one of the bios tweaking "experts" figured that out, despite the change in latency being 2~4 orders of magnitude bigger than any bios tweak. and I would bet money you specifically couldn't consistently feel the difference of 5ms extra input lag. (Go ahead, take an AB test, and let is all know exactly how much latency change you can consistently notice: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1134 )


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

@TranquilTempest Can you point me in the direction of your data that shows a framerate cap reducing latency for a GPU limited game, or post it if you haven't? I may just be ******ed and missed it, but the only graph I saw from you about latency shows uncapped framerate with lowest latency (V-sync off ofc).

And do you have a theory on why a cap would reduce latency in a GPU limited situation? I cannot deduce the logic behind why that would be the case.

Also, @qsxcv said that with V-sync off, uncapped should always give the lowest latency regardless of being GPU limited or not. I know that he has done measurements similar to your experiments, but I'm not sure if he has actually taken measurements specifically testing uncapped versus capped framerate specifically for a GPU limited game. So I'm not sure if he was making that statement based on his experimental results or based just on his logic and considerable knowledge of frame rendering and input latency.

Regardless, I think your experiments and data are accurate enough to make some latency-related conclusions, so thanks for posting it.

I'm not convinced however that your experiments provide evidence to be able to make conclusions as to whether or not other tweaks like BIOS options, etc. are perceptibly or measurably beneficial. I do agree that there are 'major' latency improvements from things like V-sync, framerate cap settings, etc., as compared to 'minor' latency improvements from other tweaks and optimizations. But I still think these 'minor' ones can be perceptible/measurable, even if they were something like a half-order of magnitude less than the 'major' ones, for two reasons.

First, the effects of many, many 'minor' improvements can add up to have a much more profound impact, even if the individual improvements themselves are barely perceptible or measurable.

Second, where the input latency and input latency variance occurs in the chain has a significant effect on perception and performance. For instance, input latency and/or input latency variance at the beginning of the chain from things like poor MCU/SROM/firmware programming or poor USB polling precision would have a greater effect than input latency at the end of the chain from something like GPU/display scaling. This is because when it occurs at the beginning of the chain, it tends to have a compound effect as it propagates through other input latency and input latency variance contributors down the chain.

So I think at best, you can only say that your experiments are inconclusive about the benefits (or lack thereof) of 'minor' latency improvements. You are, however, welcome to your opinion on the matter ofc


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> @TranquilTempest Can you point me in the direction of your data that shows a framerate cap reducing latency for a GPU limited game, or post it if you haven't? I may just be ******ed and missed it, but the only graph I saw from you about latency shows uncapped framerate with lowest latency (V-sync off ofc).
> 
> And do you have a theory on why a cap would reduce latency in a GPU limited situation? I cannot deduce the logic behind why that would be the case.


It's the exact same reason the in-game framerate cap is lower latency than a driver/gpu based framerate cap at the same framerate(fps_max is an in game cap on that graph, rtss is a driver based cap), the CPU decides what to draw, then that frame sits around until the GPU is ready to process it. Sometimes there's an extra frame of buffer thrown in there too(*cough* radeonpro). With an in-game fps limit, the current frame never has to wait for the GPU to finish rendering the previous frame, so it goes from input event to display in exactly as much time as it takes to render.
Quote:


> Also, @qsxcv said that with V-sync off, uncapped should always give the lowest latency regardless of being GPU limited or not. I know that he has done measurements similar to your experiments, but I'm not sure if he has actually taken measurements specifically testing uncapped versus capped framerate specifically for a GPU limited game. So I'm not sure if he was making that statement based on his experimental results or based just on his logic and considerable knowledge of frame rendering and input latency.


I wasn't aware he tested that, have a link?
Quote:


> Regardless, I think your experiments and data are accurate enough to make some latency-related conclusions, so thanks for posting it.
> 
> I'm not convinced however that your experiments provide evidence to be able to make conclusions as to whether or not other tweaks like BIOS options, etc. are perceptibly or measurably beneficial. I do agree that there are 'major' latency improvements from things like V-sync, framerate cap settings, etc., as compared to 'minor' latency improvements from other tweaks and optimizations. But I still think these 'minor' ones can be perceptible/measurable, even if they were something like a half-order of magnitude less than the 'major' ones, for two reasons.
> 
> First, the effects of many, many 'minor' improvements can add up to have a much more profound impact, even if the individual improvements themselves are barely perceptible or measurable.
> 
> Second, where the input latency and input latency variance occurs in the chain has a significant effect on perception and performance. For instance, input latency and/or input latency variance at the beginning of the chain from things like poor MCU/SROM/firmware programming or poor USB polling precision would have a greater effect than input latency at the end of the chain from something like GPU/display scaling. This is because when it occurs at the beginning of the chain, it tends to have a compound effect as it propagates through other input latency and input latency variance contributors down the chain.
> 
> So I think at best, you can only say that your experiments are inconclusive about the benefits (or lack thereof) of 'minor' latency improvements. You are, however, welcome to your opinion on the matter ofc


For the perceptibility of small changes of latency, all I can say is do the latency sensitivity AB test so you know how sensitive you are to it. Some people are more sensitive to latency than others, but I have a hard time believing anyone can tell the difference between say 1us of jitter and 4us of jitter. Hell, it would average several thousands of input events before you knocked an input event to the next frame of game animation (assuming 1khz usb polling and 144fps), and even then it would be an input event already on the knife edge of the next frame..

For designing a product, it's something you should pay attention to, but if a game feels laggy, there's going to be a bigger problem, several milliseconds at least.


----------



## Trull

You're literally arguing that if you can't feel the difference, then there's no difference - in which case then I guess people who are paralyzed from the waist down are SOL.

It's like Vols said, small things can and *will* add up, particularly considering that Windows isn't a RTOS to begin with, which I guess what that basically means is that everything is nicely packed with some free buffering, but correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a computer engineer and I don't want to be one, despite some people intending for me to be one because I play a few video games.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> It's the exact same reason the in-game framerate cap is lower latency than a driver/gpu based framerate cap at the same framerate(fps_max is an in game cap on that graph, rtss is a driver based cap), the CPU decides what to draw, then that frame sits around until the GPU is ready to process it. Sometimes there's an extra frame of buffer thrown in there too(*cough* radeonpro). With an in-game fps limit, the current frame never has to wait for the GPU to finish rendering the previous frame, so it goes from input event to display in exactly as much time as it takes to render.


Unless I'm just not understanding, it seems like you explained by driver/GPU based cap is worse than in-game cap, but you didn't answer my question about why an in-game cap would be better than uncapped for a GPU limited game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> For the perceptibility of small changes of latency, all I can say is do the latency sensitivity AB test so you know how sensitive you are to it. Some people are more sensitive to latency than others, but I have a hard time believing anyone can tell the difference between say 1us of jitter and 4us of jitter.


Yes, I said most of the 'minor' measurable improvements would be imperceptible by themselves, and thus would be fairly pointless to AB(X) test. The point was that the cumulative effects of individually very minor measurable improvements can (imo) be perceptible on a well-optimized system with performant hardware and peripherals. It's not really practical to setup some kind of AB test for my cumulative 'minor' improvements because it would involve changing so many different settings and such, in so many different interfaces (drivers, BIOS, Windows settings, etc. etc.) that there's no way to switch between A and B in a reasonable amount of time. The only way I can think to even do any meaningful type of AB test for this would to be having two identical systems (hardware, peripherals, HD data, etc.), so if someone wants to donate me a few thousand $$ I can make it happen








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I wasn't aware he tested that, have a link?


I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for, but here's his experiments that I think are similar to yours: http://www.esreality.com/post/2691945/microsecond-input-lag-measurements/


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Unless I'm just not understanding, it seems like you explained by driver/GPU based cap is worse than in-game cap, but you didn't answer my question about why an in-game cap would be better than uncapped for a GPU limited game.


Do you understand why an in-game cap is better than a driver based cap? Okay, lets say a frame takes 5ms on the CPU and then 10ms on the GPU. Input is updated just before the CPU starts working on it. Without a cap, the very first frame takes 15ms from input to GPU completion, but the second frame has to wait on the first one to get out of the GPU, so it sits there getting stale for 5ms in between the CPU and GPU. With a framerate cap, that waiting happens before the CPU starts working on a frame, so you get 5ms newer input data accounted for in each frame. Ideally, the cap should be just low enough to move the bottleneck from the GPU to the CPU, without significantly changing framerate.
Quote:


> Yes, I said most of the 'minor' measurable improvements would be imperceptible by themselves, and thus would be fairly pointless to AB(X) test. The point was that the cumulative effects of individually very minor measurable improvements can (imo) be perceptible on a well-optimized system with performant hardware and peripherals. It's not really practical to setup some kind of AB test for my cumulative 'minor' improvements because it would involve changing so many different settings and such, in so many different interfaces (drivers, BIOS, Windows settings, etc. etc.) that there's no way to switch between A and B in a reasonable amount of time. The only way I can think to even do any meaningful type of AB test for this would to be having two identical systems (hardware, peripherals, HD data, etc.), so if someone wants to donate me a few thousand $$ I can make it happen


The AB test runs both tests simultaneously on the same system. You move the cursor around in box A and box B and see which feels laggier. It's testing your perception, not your system. (http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1134 )
Quote:


> I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for, but here's his experiments that I think are similar to yours: http://www.esreality.com/post/2691945/microsecond-input-lag-measurements/


I meant the bit about uncapped framerate being best for latency in a gpu limited game. If he was talking about a specific game that might be true, because not all games have in-game framerate caps, or the game he was talking about might have been a CPU limited game.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Do you understand why an in-game cap is better than a driver based cap?


Yes. But your argument of capped versus non-capped for a GPU limited game is not as straightforward as the analogy you are making to in-game versus driver based caps. I think the logic you're presenting is oversimplified and I can really neither agree nor disagree with it at this point. Your results and qsxcv's results seem to conflict on the GPU limited situation, so in order to try and make sure you all are measuring the same thing, you all would have to confer on the exact parameters, settings, and game you are testing for uncapped and capped.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> The AB test runs both tests simultaneously on the same system. You move the cursor around in box A and box B and see which feels laggier. It's testing your perception, not your system. (http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1134 )


"The AB test"? There's not just a single AB test in the world bro









I'm well aware of the AB test you linked. You misunderstood what I meant in the section that this was in response to. I meant in order to test my assertion that many, many 'minor' improvements (*A*) can make a perceptible difference versus not doing any of those 'minor' improvements (*B*), the only possible way that I can think to make an *AB* test for them would be having two identical systems, because it isn't practical to switch between *A* and *B* states on a single computer in any reasonable amount of time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I meant the bit about uncapped framerate being best for latency in a gpu limited game. If he was talking about a specific game that might be true, because not all games have in-game framerate caps, or the game he was talking about might have been a CPU limited game.


I'm not sure which game it was. But you can make even CS:GO (a very CPU limited game typically) GPU limited more or less. Set all the graphics settings that are GPU intensive (textures/models, shaders, AA) to high/ultra high, and CPU intensive ones (shadows, effects, post-processing) to low. Use multi-core rendering (mqm 2) and highest resolution, and severely underclock your GPU.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Yes. But your argument of capped versus non-capped for a GPU limited game is not as straightforward as the analogy you are making to in-game versus driver based caps. I think the logic you're presenting is oversimplified and I can really neither agree nor disagree with it at this point. Your results and qsxcv's results seem to conflict on the GPU limited situation, so in order to try and make sure you all are measuring the same thing, you all would have to confer on the exact parameters, settings, and game you are testing for uncapped and capped.


I still don't know which results you're talking about. The GPU bound results of his that I saw had the GPU bound scenario a full frame slower than the CPU bound scenario, despite a slightly higher framerate: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cktehkalPAbJ5014jL-Vtg3YmGXmNTnAZy5CAQ-Zpkk/edit#gid=1983993412

With a framerate cap bringing the mqm2 latency down close to mqm1 and 0: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cktehkalPAbJ5014jL-Vtg3YmGXmNTnAZy5CAQ-Zpkk/edit#gid=1859521399
Quote:


> "The AB test"? There's not just a single AB test in the world bro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm well aware of the AB test you linked. You misunderstood what I meant in the section that this was in response to. I meant in order to test my assertion that many, many 'minor' improvements (*A*) can make a perceptible difference versus not doing any of those 'minor' improvements (*B*), the only possible way that I can think to make an *AB* test for them would be having two identical systems, because it isn't practical to switch between *A* and *B* states on a single computer in any reasonable amount of time.


The point I was making was that you should figure out what you find perceptible before you go to extreme lengths trying to compare two machines within 1ms of each other. I know I cannot feel the difference between 2ms and 4ms end to end latency on my machine, and I doubt anyone else can without a monitor that updates at 500+hz


----------



## PurpleChef

Nothing new here. Why arent you talkin about this topic boys. Really bored when this thread is dead lol.
WE NEED OPTIMIZATION BOYS!!!
Were is 2.0 version?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Nothing new here. Why arent you talkin about this topic boys. Really bored when this thread is dead lol.
> WE NEED OPTIMIZATION BOYS!!!
> Were is 2.0 version?


What exactly are you trying to optimize, and in what way is it currently unoptimized?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Nothing new here. Why arent you talkin about this topic boys. Really bored when this thread is dead lol.
> WE NEED OPTIMIZATION BOYS!!!
> Were is 2.0 version?


Guess 225 pages aren't enough for you, huh? lol

226 now.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Guess 225 pages aren't enough for you, huh? lol
> 
> 226 now.


I don't think so. allways something to tweak








Need all the interesting stuff from all this pages in one post







maybe i gotta do it myself and let you broes help me keep it high standard


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> I don't think so. allways something to tweak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need all the interesting stuff from all this pages in one post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe i gotta do it myself and let you broes help me keep it high standard


You should focus on your DPC latency because that's something that we can accurately measure. When you get that as low as possible you can focus on other things, assuming there's room for improvement.

Just my







.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Do you ATI Radeon users use the http://www.radeonpro.info/ software on top of Crimson? is it worth for better fps/latency?
> 
> If i choose "Anti-aliasing Mode -> Overrider application settings" i can only choose 2X-8xEQ, cant choose "non" why is this?


I missed this earlier. Most of the radeonpro settings increase latency to get better consistency. I only use radeonpro for forcing v-sync off in games that don't expose that setting. Never ever use radeonpro's framerate cap. ( if you must enable a framerate cap and the game doesn't have a built in one, use rivatuner instead, or GeDoSaTo)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You should focus on your DPC latency because that's something that we can accurately measure. When you get that as low as possible you can focus on other things, assuming there's room for improvement.
> 
> Just my
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Please don't confuse precision with accuracy, or with resolution or repeatability for that matter.

The priority for reducing latency goes like this:

1: make sure you're CPU bottlenecked instead of GPU or display bottlenecked.
2: increase fps, be that by upgrades, game settings, or overclocking.
4: Switch to a CRT monitor. (or if you absolutely cannot, make sure it's <10ms input latency, including pixel response.)
3: Measure mouse latency, and switch mice if it has badly written firmware, a polling interval over 1(bInterval in the USB endpoint descriptor), or a USB low speed interface (for which windows doesn't correctly set polling interval).
5: Measure keyboard latency, and switch if it has badly written firmware, a polling interval over 1, or a USB low speed interface.
6: Ingest some caffeine and sugar.
7: BIOS tweaks.

You may want to put mouse above switching to a CRT, but a CRT is several milliseconds faster than an LCD 100% of the time. Maybe if you're upgrading from a $5 wal-mart mouse.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Please don't confuse precision with accuracy, or with resolution or repeatability for that matter.
> 
> The priority for reducing latency goes like this:
> 
> 1: make sure you're CPU bottlenecked instead of GPU or display bottlenecked.
> 2: increase fps, be that by upgrades, game settings, or overclocking.
> 4: Switch to a CRT monitor. (or if you absolutely cannot, make sure it's <10ms input latency, including pixel response.)
> 3: Measure mouse latency, and switch mice if it has badly written firmware, a polling interval over 1(bInterval in the USB endpoint descriptor), or a USB low speed interface (for which windows doesn't correctly set polling interval).
> 5: Measure keyboard latency, and switch if it has badly written firmware, a polling interval over 1, or a USB low speed interface.
> 6: Ingest some caffeine and sugar.
> 7: BIOS tweaks.
> 
> You may want to put mouse above switching to a CRT, but a CRT is several milliseconds faster than an LCD 100% of the time. Maybe if you're upgrading from a $5 wal-mart mouse.


kkkk, you're right bro. But you missed that this guy is actually asking for tweaks. Switching to a CRT or buying better hardware are hardly tweaks (in fact, they aren't at all lol).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> I missed this earlier. Most of the radeonpro settings increase latency to get better consistency. I only use radeonpro for forcing v-sync off in games that don't expose that setting. Never ever use radeonpro's framerate cap. ( if you must enable a framerate cap and the game doesn't have a built in one, use rivatuner instead, or GeDoSaTo)


You say that you use RadeonPro for forcing V-Sync off, but you can literally do that in the Radeon Settings panel. So unless I'm missing something that doesn't make a lot of sense.


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You say that you use RadeonPro for forcing V-Sync off, but you can literally do that in the Radeon Settings panel. So unless I'm missing something that doesn't make a lot of sense.


Well, that was the last thing I actually used it for anyway, because forcing it off in CCC wasn't working for whichever program it was.


----------



## Kyube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Most of the radeonpro settings increase latency to get better consistency. I only use radeonpro for forcing v-sync off in games that don't expose that setting.


Did you test out the flip queue size setting in RadeonPro?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> Did you test out the flip queue size setting in RadeonPro?


Yes, It's mostly pointless, because making sure you're CPU limited will cause that queue/buffer to stay empty regardless of the setting. If you're going to use vsync, or otherwise can't make yourself CPU limited, you're better off using gedosato with flushgpueveryframe=true(even if you're not using the downsampling features).


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> Did you test out the flip queue size setting in RadeonPro?


It creates a reg key to force a queue size. It only works for DX9 titles. Queue can't be changed on DX10/11 games at this time, by the end user (unless you use Nvidia GPU).


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Yes, It's mostly pointless


Definitely not pointless.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> It only works for DX9 titles. Queue can't be changed on DX10/11 games at this time, by the end user (unless you use Nvidia GPU).


Source?


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> 1: make sure you're CPU bottlenecked instead of GPU or display bottlenecked.


How can you know if you're GPU bottlenecked? And if so, is it better to use a cap (through in game settings) as you suggested before?

Sorry if the answers to these questions are trivial but I'm bad at technology.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karac*
> 
> How can you know if you're GPU bottlenecked? And if so, is it better to use a cap (through in game settings) as you suggested before?
> 
> Sorry if the answers to these questions are trivial but I'm bad at technology.


He should have said: "Be as little CPU bottle-necked as possible, and don't have other bottlenecks if you can avoid them."


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> He should have said: "Be as little CPU bottle-necked as possible, and don't have other bottlenecks if you can avoid them."


At any given time there is only one bottleneck. If it's after the CPU, you get queues/buffers filling in between the cpu and whatever the bottleneck is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Definitely not pointless.


It's absolutely pointless if you're CPU limited because the queue stays empty, and if you're using v-sync, flushgpueveryframe = true in gedosato is 2 full frames faster than fq=1(without the variance/dropped frames of a framerate cap).


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karac*
> 
> How can you know if you're GPU bottlenecked?


Simplest way is to reduce GPU heavy settings(like resolution) and see if framerate changes.
Quote:


> And if so, is it better to use a cap (through in game settings) as you suggested before?


Yes.


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Definitely not pointless.
> Source?


Firstly, my own testing using MadVR with encoders to edit and check current queue sizes in real time (not an easy task).
Second, this thread will show my findings and other people's findings. If you CBA to read the whole thing (don't blame you), sign up and ask on that thread. Will they confirm what I've just told you.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=403389


----------



## Kyube

Since we're discussing AMD stuff, what driver gives the "bestest mouse input" & "bestest fps"?
And how does Crimson perform compared to older drivers?


----------



## Karac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> Simplest way is to reduce GPU heavy settings(like resolution) and see if framerate changes.


Thanks. Should the cap be set to the minimum consistent framerate, or the maximum available?

To be clearer, let's say I have a game who scores a maximum of 200 FPS, a value that dips to 150 during heavy combat scenes (like any first person shooter does, generally speaking). Should the cap be set to 150 or 200?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karac*
> 
> Thanks. Should the cap be set to the minimum consistent framerate, or the maximum available?
> 
> To be clearer, let's say I have a game who scores a maximum of 200 FPS, a value that dips to 150 during heavy combat scenes (like any first person shooter does, generally speaking). Should the cap be set to 150 or 200?


I would set it at 150, for consistency. You don't want big spikes in latency during heavy combat, do you?


----------



## pox02

how turbo mode affects on mouse?


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> how turbo mode affects on mouse?


You need to be more specific. "Turbo mode" is a name that gets slapped on to just about every feature a marketing department hears about but can't understand. So, exactly which product are you enabling "turbo mode" on, and what does the manual say that feature does?

Sometimes it's just a mild automatic overclock that you'd normally override with your own settings.


----------



## PurpleChef

TranquilTempest: Can you share optimal windows/bios/ingame graphic settings for fps gaming? you seem to have good knowledge. Alot of ppl say diffrent things regarding AA/AF etc
peace


----------



## pox02

i just did some testes with driver 344.11 and Xtreme-G 353.38 with using MSI MODE

344.11 Give me 449 DPC with msi mode
353.38 Give me 50.13699 DPC with msi mode

353.38 give me more smooth mouse so good

i was try with 2 gpu

1 GT 730 2GB
2 GTX 970 4GB










if someone want the driver

http://tweakforce.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6724


----------



## TranquilTempest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> TranquilTempest: Can you share optimal windows/bios/ingame graphic settings for fps gaming? you seem to have good knowledge. Alot of ppl say diffrent things regarding AA/AF etc
> peace


AA can have a big impact on performance, and whether I enable or disable it is pretty game specific, If you have the GPU headroom, go ahead and enable it, though take care not to put yourself in a GPU bottlenecked situation. AF doesn't impact performance much I'll normally leave it at 8x or 16x.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TranquilTempest*
> 
> AA can have a big impact on performance, and whether I enable or disable it is pretty game specific, If you have the GPU headroom, go ahead and enable it, though take care not to put yourself in a GPU bottlenecked situation. AF doesn't impact performance much I'll normally leave it at 8x or 16x.


Thx for answer. Got 8350 cpu and 290x GPU


----------



## gorman

Having some trouble here









I have a serious bottleneck somewhere. I can think of a few possible causes but nothing that could account for such high latency. I'm using an APU and 2400MHz ram, so I will get some amount of latency there, but 1ms is pretty bad.

Anyone have some advice for me?


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gorman*
> 
> Having some trouble here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a serious bottleneck somewhere. I can think of a few possible causes but nothing that could account for such high latency. I'm using an APU and 2400MHz ram, so I will get some amount of latency there, but 1ms is pretty bad.
> 
> Anyone have some advice for me?


First of all try LatencyMon. As DPC Latency Checker under anything post Win7 has false readings.


----------



## gorman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> First of all try LatencyMon. As DPC Latency Checker under anything post Win7 has false readings.


I see, thanks for the info. LatencyMon gives the following results:

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 2032.660576
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 9.593024

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 1047.619181
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 3.882749

I'm not fond of those peeks, but on average it looks fine.


----------



## jtl999

Alright. If you have any problems post the drivers, sorted by "HIghest Execution" I think it is


----------



## chuckiz

I just bought asus z97-a and i5 4690k I didn't overclock anything It's fine for me performance is very good almost stable 300fps in csgo but my mouse is too smooth It's hard to aim, ofcourse It's good when It's smooth and not stuttering, but It's too smooth maybe some one have same problem and changed something? I think I should change/turn off some thing in BIOS but I don't know what, I tried to plug the mouse in to the usb 3.0 and 2.0 It's the same.. Sry for english


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> I just bought asus z97-a and i5 4690k I didn't overclock anything It's fine for me performance is very good almost stable 300fps in csgo but my mouse is too smooth It's hard to aim, ofcourse It's good when It's smooth and not stuttering, but It's too smooth maybe some one have same problem and changed something? I think I should change/turn off some thing in BIOS but I don't know what, I tried to plug the mouse in to the usb 3.0 and 2.0 It's the same.. Sry for english


I know what you mean but I'm not sure what can fix it. It is so annoying that it takes my gaming time out .


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> 344.11 Give me 449 DPC with msi mode
> 353.38 Give me 50.13699 DPC with msi mode


So are Tweakforce drivers better than the "standard" drivers? Has anyone else experimented with these drivers?

Also, what is MSI mode, and does it improve mouse response?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> what is MSI mode


http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044


----------



## x7007

I've found out that uninstalling Intel WatchDog driver and Intel Management driver, made my mouse movement has become 100% accurate than when they're installed. check that you don't have those crap installed, usually windows 8.1 and windows 10 install it with windows update or from the intel chipset drivers. you need to View > Show Hidden Devices in the device manager.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I thought that was normal while idling with HPET off? Not sure about other settings. Just look at what you need and turn off as much as possible outside of that.


Hmm okay. Before I do that, I'll be interested in seeing if anybody experiences this.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Hmm okay. Before I do that, I'll be interested in seeing if anybody experiences this.


You can just disable HPET. Your computer won't explode, I promise.


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I've found out that uninstalling Intel WatchDog driver and Intel Management driver, made my mouse movement has become 100% accurate than when they're installed. check that you don't have those crap installed, usually windows 8.1 and windows 10 install it with windows update or from the intel chipset drivers. you need to View > Show Hidden Devices in the device manager.


Interesting, the Watch Dog timer is usually disabled when installed by default unless an application calls for a .6 of a second count down interval for ISOC based pacing. I'd say the Intel Engine Management driver was the cause of the issue. This has been tested to show higher latency and irregular mouse movement on "some" specific configurations.


----------



## awkwardstevie

yeah they are
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> So are Tweakforce drivers better than the "standard" drivers? Has anyone else experimented with these drivers?
> 
> Also, what is MSI mode, and does it improve mouse response?


yeah,those drivers are cool. I am using it too.

MSI-mode for me made my mouse movement a bit... More responsive (or it just placebo) dont know. I wont hurt,let it try


----------



## chuckiz

You mean uninstalling Intel Management engine Interface ? I have windows 7, only this I can find and I don't see Watchdog drivers..


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I've found out that uninstalling Intel WatchDog driver and Intel Management driver, made my mouse movement has become 100% accurate than when they're installed. check that you don't have those crap installed, usually windows 8.1 and windows 10 install it with windows update or from the intel chipset drivers. you need to View > Show Hidden Devices in the device manager.


Are you talking about these two right here?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Are you talking about these two right here?


Yes


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Yes


Should I be uninstalling them straight away like that from the Device Manager? ? ?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Should I be uninstalling them straight away like that from the Device Manager? ? ?


ye you can ,just uninstall the driver . windows 10 might install it again. You can always choose to install it again.


----------



## pox02

found why i get high dpc on USBPORT.sys

i remove 2 things on device manager

Terminal server keyboard driver
Terminal server Mouse driver

look for them and remove those junk latency eaters

USBPort.sys latency over 300
with Terminal remove
USBPORT.sys 1.3 DPC


----------



## hasukka

Has anyone found good settings for C-States / EIST / Win power settings? I am looking for a good balance of power saving & good dpc latency/performance. At the moment C1E disabled, EIST disabled, C-States C7s, High performance & 5% minimum state in Windows. Doesn't seem to be a big difference however you tweak the settings from BIOS though.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> found why i get high dpc on USBPORT.sys
> 
> i remove 2 things on device manager
> 
> Terminal server keyboard driver
> Terminal server Mouse driver
> 
> look for them and remove those junk latency eaters
> 
> USBPort.sys latency over 300
> with Terminal remove
> USBPORT.sys 1.3 DPC


So you're saying disabling those two, made a huge difference in LatencyMonitor?


----------



## pox02

yes for me i dont know how usbport.sys work for you


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> yes for me i dont know how usbport.sys work for you


I use my USB 3.0 ports, and USBPORT.sys still shows up in LatencyMon. Did you mean Highest Execution, or Total Execution? Here's mine:


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I use my USB 3.0 ports, and USBPORT.sys still shows up in LatencyMon. Did you mean Highest Execution, or Total Execution? Here's mine:


i hate nvidia junk driver kernel make a lot lag use msi mode on your driver

never use usb 3.0 you losse Performance

your usbport.sys is little high Total Execution

remove rapid storage latency junk

try old drivers dude you have a lot of latency around


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i hate nvidia junk driver kernel make a lot lag use msi mode on your driver
> 
> never use usb 3.0 you losse Performance
> 
> your usbport.sys is little high Total Execution
> 
> remove rapid storage latency junk
> 
> try old drivers dude you have a lot of latency around


My DPC latency is ~10-20µs. What exactly does MSI mode have to do with the NVIDIA kernel driver showing up in LatencyMonitor? I don't have Intel RST installed, and it's Disabled in my BIOS.

My USB 2.0 & 3.0 slots are native, but I use USB 3.0 because when using my USB 2.0 slot(s) in the past, my mouse felt slower.


----------



## pox02

slower? something wrong with your motherboard


----------



## pox02

ataport.sys on 7 is latency eater
storport.sys on 8 .1 beeter latency

someone test of those?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> ataport.sys on 7 is latency eater
> storport.sys on 8 .1 beeter latency
> 
> someone test of those?


20 mins test, 344.11. Bios settings, cpu integrated graphics OFF. C-States, Speedstep ON.
http://i.imgur.com/QtnO3rn.jpg


----------



## pox02

wow 1804 on 8.1 i get 19 total and its the max of running 30 min


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> ataport.sys on 7 is latency eater
> storport.sys on 8 .1 beeter latency
> 
> someone test of those?


It's Win7 64.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> It's Win7 64.


try 8.1 windows

this is mine

http://prntscr.com/9shwv9

running 30 min


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> try 8.1 windows
> 
> this is mine
> 
> http://prntscr.com/9shwv9
> 
> running 30 min


Holy **** i'm jealous. . .


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Holy **** i'm jealous. . .


i was try to figure why ataport.sys take a lot DPC

and found the solution the driver self looking for so much HardDrives as possible

storport.sys take only the drives you have in system whats mean less DPC

storport is update of ataport.sys

im working on usbport.sys on 8.1 is little mystery


----------



## kittinzaa

I'm just tried MSI mode on all my PCI device its super good combine with other windows and bios tweak on this thread now I feel like almost zero inputlag LOL can't belive

reposte for the MSI mode
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> I'm just tried MSI mode on all my PCI device its super good combine with other windows and bios tweak on this thread now I feel like almost zero inputlag LOL can't belive
> 
> reposte for the MSI mode
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044


Using MSI mode on my GPU made zero difference in CS:GO. Also zero difference with DPC latency..


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Using MSI mode on my GPU made zero difference in CS:GO. Also zero difference with DPC latency..


thats why you need to replace to amd i dont see a reason that nvidia kernel cannot be removed like amd from mouse experience amd beeter what i like about the nvidia thats he have no scalling option and thats why every single mouse latency are removed


----------



## Gonzalez07

msi mode can lower dpc a tiny bit but it doesnt decrease input lag. there is 0 difference in mouse feeling


----------



## pox02

i debug the nvidia kernel and able to fix latency problem with windbg







now i back to win 7 and still my hal.dll suffer from ataport i need found way to fix that someone know the update of changes ataport to storport? will help a lot guys

http://i.imgur.com/nbWcyFx.png


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i debug the nvidia kernel and able to fix latency problem with windbg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now i back to win 7 and still my hal.dll suffer from ataport i need found way to fix that someone know the update of changes ataport to storport? will help a lot guys
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/nbWcyFx.png


How long are you running it for? I don't think Total Execution matters nearly as much as the Highest Execution, but that's purely speculation on my part.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> How long are you running it for? I don't think Total Execution matters nearly as much as the Highest Execution, but that's purely speculation on my part.


i was running it for 40 min without downloading anything ndis was killing my latency when i running some apps


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i was running it for 40 min without downloading anything ndis was killing my latency when i running some apps


The total execution of all your drivers seems like it was ran for 5 minutes tops


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned within this behemoth of a thread, but the IRQ Resource of the mouse is an important consideration. Before checking this, mine was on IRQ 16, which is the same as both my GPU and sound card. While I couldn't personally change the IRQ for the GPU or sound card because there's only 1 available slot for each on my mobo, you can change the IRQ Resource of your mouse by changing the USB port is plugged into.
> 
> After I tested a few ports, I got my mouse on its own IRQ 23. This not only made the mini-spikes in DPC latency checker and LatencyMon fewer and farther between, demonstrating improved input lag, it also polls much more consistently @ 1000Hz in MouseMovementRecorder. Before there was ~2 strange polling deviations around 900-950Hz and 1050-1000Hz every 50 polling measurements during constant high speed mouse movement, and now it sticks to 1000Hz +/- 5Hz like a laser beam.
> 
> Here's how I went about checking the IRQ resource and changing it:
> 
> 1) Windows key + R, type devmgmt.msc and hit enter, then View > Devices by connection. Find your USB host controllers and open them up until your find 'HID-compliant mouse' as a 'USB Input Device'. Then right-click the USB host controller that you found it under ('Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller' if you're using the Microsoft driver), Properties > Resources tab, and look for the number in parentheses at the end of the IRQ line.
> 
> 2) Windows key + R, type msinfo32.exe and hit enter. Under Hardware Resources > IRQs, you can see which other devices your mouse's USB host controller is sharing IRQ Resources with. Ideally, it would have an IRQ Resource all its own, but you definitely want to try and have it on a different one than your GPU, sound card, in-use network adapter, and possibly even USB keyboard (I use PS/2 to avoid this one altogether).
> 
> 3) If your mouse is on a conflicting IRQ Resource, swap it to another USB 2.0 port** and repeat these steps until you find an IRQ Resource all its own or at least on the least-conflicting one available.
> 
> 4) [Optional] Tweet @AlGore that you won the internet. Laugh hardily.
> 
> **I have USB 3.0 disabled in the BIOS options as r0ach recommends.


well this made me paranoid, so I switched my mouse to the front usb port (which is the one with the IRQ of 23)


----------



## chuckiz

my usb3.0 ports are IRQ23, and other's are IRQ16 usb2.0.. I tried to plugg my mouse in front of pc the movement of my mouse is maybe better or placebo


----------



## softskiller

For me upper back USB port controller is IRQ 16 - same as Graphics card.
Lower back USB port controller is IRQ 23 and also serves the onboard USB connector.

I totally prefer a direct connection to the USB port instead of front USB that needs another cable.
So just try the lower pair at your back.


----------



## PurpleChef

All usb 2.0 ports on the back is "IRQ 18", so can't get one single for mouse.

MouseMovementRecorder show alot of diffrent hz, almost never 1000.
(It seems to be alot diffrent from time to time, re-opening the program seems to give diffrent results)

Should i get a ps2 adapter for keyboard, or try to plug my usb keyboard iin one of the front usb's?

Usb 3.0 and c1/c6/turbo off in bios.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> For me upper back USB port controller is IRQ 16 - same as Graphics card.
> Lower back USB port controller is IRQ 23 and also serves the onboard USB connector.
> 
> I totally prefer a direct connection to the USB port instead of front USB that needs another cable.
> So just try the lower pair at your back.


How do you go about determining this? For me it seemed like IRQ 16 was the front ports.


----------



## PurpleChef

Boys, no more PTR 2.0 is live Kappa

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=607576835

Now i need youre help to make it the best guide ever.

THE BEST GUIDE EVER
Fast as lightning
Solid as a rock
Cheap as duck
The best fps guide evvvrrrrr kappa

This thread is just to long. let me know if u should edit/add smt broes!!


----------



## iceskeleton

Well I just did a mouse movement recorder test with all my usb ports, the front ports (IRQ 23) were indeed more stable. The rest were IRQ 16 (as was my gfx card and Ethernet controller).

Also apparently different IRQs have different priorities and there is a registry edit to change the priorities. Would anything change with a higher priority for IRQ 16 (or 23)?
Looking at this post
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/4785589-post9.html

The priority order is
Quote:


> IRQ 0 - 2
> IRQ 8 - 15
> IRQ 3 - 7
> 
> IRQs 16 -23 are handled by Windows via ACPI which usually uses IRQ 9 itself. I do not know if these use the priority of IRQ 9, a priority lower than 15 but higher than 3, or a priority lower than everything else.


http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-vista-tips/manage-irq-settings-windows-vista-7/

I haven't tested it myself so just be careful









The first post also talks about disabling ACPI so it is not handled virtually by windows. Wonder if this will do anything as well


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Boys, no more PTR 2.0 is live Kappa
> 
> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=607576835
> 
> Now i need youre help to make it the best guide ever.
> 
> THE BEST GUIDE EVER
> Fast as lightning
> Solid as a rock
> Cheap as duck
> The best fps guide evvvrrrrr kappa
> 
> This thread is just to long. let me know if u should edit/add smt broes!!


Sadly, nothing will be able to compensate for how poorly optimized CS:GO is. Every update, it gets worse. 12/17/15 Update they actually improved performance a good amount, and ruined it last update.


----------



## softskiller

@agsz
You can type "msinfo32" or "systeminfo" in the Win search box.
There you can look at the IRQ distribution.
Sometimes the two USB 2.0 controllers do not have different names.

So you can look in the device manager and view devices by connection, expand the USB controllers and the (sub-) hubs/ports and look at which your devices are connection.
In the ressource tab of the controller you can see the IRQ.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Sadly, nothing will be able to compensate for how poorly optimized CS:GO is. Every update, it gets worse. 12/17/15 Update they actually improved performance a good amount, and ruined it last update.


How come? how is it badly optimized? what game is good optimized?

Man i installed Quake live some days ago, and damn. Everything is fluid or how u say. Smooth as butter, standard settings. No console haxx.
cs is pretty trash tbh.

Its more a thread about computer optimizing not csgo, just happends to be there. Dont be surprised if u find your comments, un-quoted there xD


----------



## Trull

CS:GO poorly optimized and trash... now I've read it all.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> CS:GO poorly optimized and trash... now I've read it all.


Compared to the feel and the fluid gameplay, yes, its trash. Still we play it cus we got nothing better to play. Quake is better, but cs got all kids playing = more money.
What makes me laugh is comparing a csgo pro with a quakepro (if there is any lol)
Sad sad boys. Better days to come i hope

And btw, Troll maybe would be a better nick for you? youre not bringing anything to the table except kids comments


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Compared to the feel and the fluid gameplay, yes, its trash. Still we play it cus we got nothing better to play. Quake is better, but cs got all kids playing = more money.
> What makes me laugh is comparing a csgo pro with a quakepro (if there is any lol)
> Sad sad boys. Better days to come i hope


So I guess by your logic, you only play it because all the kids play it? Which in turn would make you a kid yourself, or a fool. Judging by the way you type in not only this one, but all of your posts that I've had the delight of reading, I'd have to say both is more likely to be the case.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> And btw, Troll maybe would be a better nick for you? youre not bringing anything to the table except kids comments


Damn, that's pretty smart and original. You just destroyed me, along with everyone else who made that joke before you. I see you took some inspiration from one of the infamous trolls here and what I replied to him and edited it in. It's okay, kids can pretend they're big boys sometimes, too. That's why you have the 'Commodore 64' reference below your name, isn't it?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> How come? how is it badly optimized? what game is good optimized?
> 
> Man *i installed Quake live some days ago*, and damn. Everything is fluid or how u say. Smooth as butter, standard settings. No console haxx.
> cs is pretty trash tbh.


Pure gold.


----------



## rivage

Best nvidia driver for windows 10 64bits?


----------



## x7007

I posted it in madvr forum . it is 1 single important setting that should fix a lot of performance issues.

Whoever has windows 8.1 and windows 10 , do like that, it boosted my performance in Skyrim from 28 to 60+ . windows 8.1 and windows 10 are bugged with full of bad settings that worked in windows 7 just fine. In windows 7 I got 100+ fps in skyrim. even with LOW everything the FPS stayed 28 , no way it is possible with 970 GTX and 3770K 4.3 Ghz I will get this kind of fps. This setting from here http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/windows-10-...-speed-1516413 Fixed the issue. I will do it on my laptop 8.1 too and see how it improved things. it might fix stupid bugs in the media player that we use, because we use Exclusive mode and it's like gaming, should work the same. And don't forget to disable the Xbox DVR . from Start > Xbox DVR > Log in your account without password (you can skip the password) > Settings > Xbox DVR Recording .. > disable .
Should fix a lot of input lag and other things too


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I posted it in madvr forum . it is 1 single important setting that should fix a lot of performance issues.
> 
> Whoever has windows 8.1 and windows 10 , do like that, it boosted my performance in Skyrim from 28 to 60+ . windows 8.1 and windows 10 are bugged with full of bad settings that worked in windows 7 just fine. In windows 7 I got 100+ fps in skyrim. even with LOW everything the FPS stayed 28 , no way it is possible with 970 GTX and 3770K 4.3 Ghz I will get this kind of fps. This setting from here http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/windows-10-...-speed-1516413 Fixed the issue. I will do it on my laptop 8.1 too and see how it improved things. it might fix stupid bugs in the media player that we use, because we use Exclusive mode and it's like gaming, should work the same. And don't forget to disable the Xbox DVR . from Start > Xbox DVR > Log in your account without password (you can skip the password) > Settings > Xbox DVR Recording .. > disable .
> Should fix a lot of input lag and other things too


Link doesn't work.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Link doesn't work.


This URL has the same ending, just page file things.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/windows-10-how-fix-sluggish-performance-boost-overall-system-speed-1516413


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Link doesn't work.


Ha sorry yes this is the link.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> This URL has the same ending, just page file things.
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/windows-10-how-fix-sluggish-performance-boost-overall-system-speed-1516413


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> CS:GO poorly optimized and trash... now I've read it all.


I'd love to hear how I'm wrong, please elaborate.


----------



## rivage

Just upgraded to Windows 10 last night and first latency test so far.
C-states/Speedstep/Eist/TurboBoost : enabled

Did nothing while it was running.

http://i.imgur.com/NkbSbWk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZZ7dSIC.jpg


----------



## freddycatking

I'm about to set up 3 monitors on my radeon HD 7870. It has a DVI-D, DVIi DualLink, HDMI and Displayport port. I want my main monitor to have the least latency possible, but it uses a VGA cable, so I will need an adapter for one of the ports. Currently I'm using only two monitors and the main one is set up on the DVI-I with an adapter. It won't work on DVI-D. Will HDMI or displayport with a VGA adapter possibly give me less output latency? Will there even be a difference? What about picture quality? (crt) thanks.


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> And don't forget to disable the Xbox DVR . from Start > Xbox DVR > Log in your account without password (you can skip the password) > Settings > Xbox DVR Recording .. > disable .
> Should fix a lot of input lag and other things too


I have no MS account. I don't understand why one would need an account to disable something.
Also, if I do not enable or start recording with "win+g" gaming toolbar, does this even have any effect?!

When I press "win+g" in CSGO to get into the gamebar setting the screen just flashes.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I have no MS account. I don't understand why one would need an account to disable something.
> Also, if I do not enable or start recording with "win+g" gaming toolbar, does this even have any effect?!
> 
> When I press "win+g" in CSGO to get into the gamebar setting the screen just flashes.


Read on it then. Itis enabled by default if you don't disable it and it is active by default if you don't turn it off


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I'd love to hear how I'm wrong, please elaborate.


*CS:GO* -> Runs at a playable frame rate on a freaking 2 watt Atom SOC on a tablet at near-HD resolution. Runs at like 300+ fps on mid-range desktops at HD resolutions. Overall flawless game, technically speaking.






*Every other game out there* (except the obvious ones) -> Struggles to run at playable frame rates on high-end desktop systems many years after its release. Has multiple other technical problems.






Recent AAA example:






CS:GO "poorly optimized", my ass on a bike.


----------



## Trull

CS:GO got these modern kids too spoiled...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> *CS:GO* -> Runs at a playable frame rate on a freaking 2 watt Atom SOC on a tablet at near-HD resolution. Runs at like 300+ fps on mid-range desktops at HD resolutions. Overall flawless game, technically speaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Every other game out there* (except the obvious ones) -> Struggles to run at playable frame rates on high-end desktop systems many years after its release. Has multiple other technical problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent AAA example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CS:GO "poorly optimized", my ass on a bike.


30 FPS is playable? 300+ FPS on mid-range Desktop PC's? I really hope you're trolling. The game requires over 200+ FPS stable just to feel smooth, and people with 980 Ti's even get horrible FPS drops in smokes. You shouldn't need NVIDIA GTX Titan's to play CS:GO. From it's debut in 2012, until now, it has gotten worse with nearly every update.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> 30 FPS is playable? 300+ FPS on mid-range Desktop PC's? I really hope you're trolling. The game requires over 200+ FPS stable just to feel smooth, and people with 980 Ti's even get horrible FPS drops in smokes. You shouldn't need NVIDIA GTX Titan's to play CS:GO. From it's debut in 2012, until now, it has gotten worse with nearly every update.


lol.


----------



## awkwardstevie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> 30 FPS is playable? 300+ FPS on mid-range Desktop PC's? I really hope you're trolling. The game requires over 200+ FPS stable just to feel smooth, and people with 980 Ti's even get horrible FPS drops in smokes. You shouldn't need NVIDIA GTX Titan's to play CS:GO. From it's debut in 2012, until now, it has gotten worse with nearly every update.


if we are talking about fullHD and higher resotutions its true. U need to have 2 graphic cards (minimum gtx970) for ~200fps in SMOKE. Sometimes even 1 card is not enough,even gtx980ti and titans.
if we are talking about lower resolutions, older GPUs are good,but AMD. Nvidia has problem with drivers. I just swapped mine GTX660 when fps drops were to even 120 and now with hd7950 it doesnt drop lower than 200 and game feels better than ever.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> if we are talking about fullHD and higher resotutions its true. U need to have 2 graphic cards (minimum gtx970) for ~200fps in SMOKE. Sometimes even 1 card is not enough,even gtx980ti and titans.
> if we are talking about lower resolutions, older GPUs are good,but AMD. Nvidia has problem with drivers. I just swapped mine GTX660 when fps drops were to even 120 and now with hd7950 it doesnt drop lower than 200 and game feels better than ever.


I was meaning to create a CS:GO Survey, to see if AMD GPU users have less issues and smaller FPS drops in smokes. Valve really needs to re-do the smoke grenade particles, but that will never happen. When a smoke pops, my CPU usage goes from ~50%, down to ~25%, and GPU Usage goes from ~20-30%, up to ~99%. I don't know how the coding/engine works exactly, but it seems like the hand-off that occurs is where the issue lies somewhat.


----------



## pox02

c216 chipset family usb enhanced host

i have two of those someone disable those things? they make any benefits?


----------



## pox02

did some testing on Win32PrioritySeparation set to 26 to let cpu synchronizing all IRQS whats give more beeter latency off every USB

on GPU the most important to set on 20 (LOW)


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> did some testing on Win32PrioritySeparation set to 26 to let cpu synchronizing all IRQS whats give more beeter latency off every USB
> 
> on GPU the most important to set on 20 (LOW)


Would you like to explain? guide plz


----------



## Dargonplay

why is it recommended to disable Multithreading when disabling HPET? What do HPET have in order to be a requirement to have it enabled when using Multhreading?

"If you disable HPET, you most likely do not want to run any virtual cores." -R0ach He's not disabling Multithreading because of Latency but because you're disabling HPET, reasoning? I would think Multithreading is perfectly capable of using TSC to schedule commmands on its virtual cores, and it'd perform even better than with HPET, is there something I'm not seeing?


----------



## x7007

Guys, don't install the intel chipset on windows 10, for windows 8.1 it is a must , but install only the driver that comes with your motherboard.

I had weird lag input/lag banding when playing multiplayer games. the FPS was steady which was not that great compare to without the intel chipset or the right version and the MS was like always.

so after uninstalling one by one of the intel chipset 10.1.1.13 I think which was and is the newest the problem was fixed, that's the only thing I did. I did need to reinstall some of the drivers, like Nvidia and the Realtek HD . but I used the same driver and it's not like something was changed since I used this driver. the only thing I did do is not using the intel chipset 10.1.1.13 , I did needed to install the chipset because on my laptop I'm using windows 8.1 Asus G751JT because of the Nvidia screw up with Gsync, so only way to get Gsync enabled is using windows 8.1 with NVidia drivers 347.88 + GameNab Gtools beta 2.

I played Heroes of the Storm and League of Legends and I did not have this problem at all since I did that. no other settings was changed. so don't use the newest intel chipset or not at all in the windows 10. I had other issue with my SolaFlare 6212 10gb server network card, for some reason after I did everything on my windows 10 x64 desktop computer, I saw new settings that I did not have before, like Flow Control Auto Negotiation or Receive Large Offload which is greatly needed for this type of card and which the reason I bought it. After I did all that on the desktop which I needed to uninstall intel chipset completely since version 9.4 to 10.1.1.9 - 10.1.1.7 one by one again and again and scan again for the hardware again, installing every single driver from Creative ZXR , Nvidia, SolarFlare drivers. for some reason after this I had those settings showing in the device manager for the SolarFlare card in the advanced settings. The weird thing is , my friend has the same card , same windows, different chipset Z87 , I have Z77 . and he did have intel chipset installed, I think version 10.1.1.9 and for him we did not uninstall it, we just roll back, and after we installed the drivers and updated things , he did not have the same settings I have. so there must be some weird things after installing the intel chipset or something else.


----------



## rivage

Hi guys, What are the devices that should be put in MSi Mode? currently I have those two.


----------



## Gonzalez07

personally i just put my graphics card in msi mode, dont notice a difference aside from lower dpc latency. putting some devices in msi will cause you not to boot but its pretty easy to figure out which


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Hi guys, What are the devices that should be put in MSi Mode? currently I have those two.


Try the GPU, the PCIe Root Ports and PCIe Controller. These _should_ work in MSI mode without problems. Anything else, you'll have to find out yourself.
Fair word of warning: putting the SATA controller into MSI mode will likely cause Windows being unable to boot.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Try the GPU, the PCIe Root Ports and PCIe Controller. These _should_ work in MSI mode without problems. Anything else, you'll have to find out yourself.
> Fair word of warning: putting the SATA controller into MSI mode will likely cause Windows being unable to boot.


Yes, i've in fact already tried to put the Sata controller in MSi mode and that didn't go well at all ahah. I'm gonna try for the PCie Controller and Root Ports. Thank's


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Yes, i've in fact already tried to put the Sata controller in MSi mode and that didn't go well at all ahah. I'm gonna try for the PCie Controller and Root Ports. Thank's


You need to install a SATA Driver (Intel RST technically). What motherboard do you have? I just do it through Device Manager, since I have no use for Intel RST and what not.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> You need to install a SATA Driver (Intel RST technically). What motherboard do you have? I just do it through Device Manager, since I have no use for Intel RST and what not.


I read many times that Intel RST was not needed?? I'm confused. I have a Gigabyte Z87-HD3 with an i5 4670k. So do I, I literally have ZERO interest in having RST installed, could you help me out updating RST through Device Manager only?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> I read many times that Intel RST was not needed?? I'm confused. I have a Gigabyte Z87-HD3 with an i5 4670k. So do I, I literally have ZERO interest in having RST installed, could you help me out updating RST through Device Manager only?


Here, download: https://mega.nz/#!dMkRWCjT!vZkgbC1ogRxm8fmX53Q23c6LhABE-tfdB3K3HucFhuo - And install through device manager only. That's Intel RST v13.2.4.1000 - best for 8-Series/9-Series Chipsets.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Here, download: https://mega.nz/#!dMkRWCjT!vZkgbC1ogRxm8fmX53Q23c6LhABE-tfdB3K3HucFhuo - And install through device manager only. That's Intel RST v13.2.4.1000 - best for 8-Series/9-Series Chipsets.


Sorry to ask but where did you read/hear that this particular version of RST was best for 8/9series chipsets?

Edit: I just installed it and it automatically got put in MSi Mode.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Sorry to ask but where did you read/hear that this particular version of RST was best for 8/9series chipsets?
> 
> Edit: I just installed it and it automatically got put in MSi Mode.


Yeah, that's how it goes into MSI, doing it manually will cause you some headaches lol, I've done that before actually. Win-Raid.com forums, he did lots of testing, and I did some testing on my ASUS Z97-AR between a few versions, and settled on 13.2.4.1000. You can do some benchmarking if you'd like to compare drivers


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah, that's how it goes into MSI, doing it manually will cause you some headaches lol, I've done that before actually. Win-Raid.com forums, he did lots of testing, and I did some testing on my ASUS Z97-AR between a few versions, and settled on 13.2.4.1000. You can do some benchmarking if you'd like to compare drivers


Well I just played some custom on League and the game feels definitely far smoother than before, I thank you for this. This is very interesting, I might do some testing to see if v13.2.4.1000 is the actual best driver for my system. What software do you use though to do those testings?

Currently reading this btw
http://www.win-raid.com/t362f23-Performance-of-the-Intel-RST-RSTe-AHCI-RAID-Drivers.html


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Well I just played some custom on League and the game feels definitely far smoother than before, I thank you for this. This is very interesting, I might do some testing to see if v13.2.4.1000 is the actual best driver for my system. What software do you use though to do those testings?
> 
> Currently reading this btw
> http://www.win-raid.com/t362f23-Performance-of-the-Intel-RST-RSTe-AHCI-RAID-Drivers.html


I think Anvil SSD Benchmrak is a good one, I forget off the top of my head honestly. I'd say don't dive too far into those forums; such minuscule things are over exaggerated, it's not worth it.


----------



## 343687

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Here, download: https://mega.nz/#!dMkRWCjT!vZkgbC1ogRxm8fmX53Q23c6LhABE-tfdB3K3HucFhuo - And install through device manager only. That's Intel RST v13.2.4.1000 - best for 8-Series/9-Series Chipsets.


How does one install it through the device manager.. I realize it is probably pretty simple but what device do I update!?









Also I am using "asus maximus vii hero" so I take It this version should work fine for me too!

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Gonzalez07

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/howto-install-latest-intel-sata-drivers-without-installing-full-rapid-storage-tech.145706/


----------



## PurpleChef

win 10
ndis.sys - Highest execution (ms) 1.501128

what driver y'all using? allways seems to be this driver causing highest latency


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> win 10
> ndis.sys - Highest execution (ms) 1.501128
> 
> what driver y'all using? allways seems to be this driver causing highest latency


You need better network card. Those realtek and Intel normal card are crap just like some kind of software raid. If you want the best dpc from ndis.SYS you need Server network card preferred solar flare brand or myircom ( forgot the exact name ) or lastly Intel server cards. I have the solarflare 6212 and the last thing I see is Ndis on the list andthey didn't put official windows 10 drivers so I am using the latest windows 8.1, the reason is its server card so they wait to release drivers for windows server 2016 for obvious reasons like always. When they release windows 10 support drivers (server 2016) I could use the setting RSC windows 10 (search Google) . you can read about the performance it gives with the Receice large offload settings which only servers cards has support to.


----------



## PurpleChef

Ok ty. So theres nothing i can do to reduce it with this?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/howto-install-latest-intel-sata-drivers-without-installing-full-rapid-storage-tech.145706/


All you do is open Device Manager, Right click on SATA AHCI 1.0 Driver > Update Driver > Manually > Choose the folder with the driver in it..


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Ok ty. So theres nothing i can do to reduce it with this?


not really , the jump will happen , just like wireless network card . they just do that


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> not really , the jump will happen , just like wireless network card . they just do that


Can you recommend any network card?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Can you recommend any network card?


Best one is solarflare 6212 or 5212 but you will need to get the right sfp to insert to it. The server network card has empty slots that you can insert which connection you want. Optical or cat. You can get them at FiberStore.com . you will need to know what you need. But I can tell you what you need if you buy the same.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Can you recommend any network card?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033

the most lowest latency


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033
> 
> the most lowest latency


Thank you!


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Thank you!


By the way, onboard NICs are almost always preferable to discrete PCIe solutions since they're connected to PCIe internally.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033
> 
> the most lowest latency


This is the worst card , didn't you read the issues people have with Intel cards in windows 7 , 8 , 10 when using drivers above 19.1 ?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> This is the worst card , didn't you read the issues people have with Intel cards in windows 7 , 8 , 10 when using drivers above 19.1 ?


i dont know the issues i have 82579v and love it i have lowest dpc on it anyway if someone complaint about it run it with msi mode


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Thank you!


when you plug it disable the vlan its important


----------



## gabecubano14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> when you plug it disable the vlan its important


Would you mind posting the other advanced settings you have? i have the I219-V card which is supposedly the best onboard chip at the moment. I would like to see what you have for your settings and compare them to mine and see any differences.


----------



## Dargonplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dargonplay*
> 
> why is it recommended to disable Multithreading when disabling HPET? What do HPET have in order to be a requirement to have it enabled when using Multhreading?
> 
> "If you disable HPET, you most likely do not want to run any virtual cores." -R0ach He's not disabling Multithreading because of Latency but because you're disabling HPET, reasoning? I would think Multithreading is perfectly capable of using TSC to schedule commmands on its virtual cores, and it'd perform even better than with HPET, is there something I'm not seeing?


Nobody have an answer to this?


----------



## t1337dude

So...are these numbers alright?


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t1337dude*
> 
> So...are these numbers alright?


Sure. Although if you really wanted to you could possibly do things to reduce the (already low) DPC latency of the nVidia driver.


----------



## t1337dude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Sure. Although if you really wanted to you could possibly do things to reduce the (already low) DPC latency of the nVidia driver.


Is there a specific post you could point me out to that tells me what I should do? I'm under the impression the OP is out of date. I have GPU scaling turned off if that helps at all. But all my sound is transmitted over HDMI to my receiver...could this be causing an additional delay?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gabecubano14*
> 
> Would you mind posting the other advanced settings you have? i have the I219-V card which is supposedly the best onboard chip at the moment. I would like to see what you have for your settings and compare them to mine and see any differences.


any saving powers idle priority vlan disable since i dont have this card i cant tell what settings he have


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t1337dude*
> 
> Is there a specific post you could point me out to that tells me what I should do? I'm under the impression the OP is out of date. I have GPU scaling turned off if that helps at all. But all my sound is transmitted over HDMI to my receiver...could this be causing an additional delay?


i have gtx 970 and hd 7950 and i like more amd no kernel driver so my dpc keep in 1 no suffer in mouse movement beeter then nvidia in my experience no detect mouse movement with the new drivers crimson whats mean all the time the cursor faster


----------



## x7007

Ye I remember I. Could play games with the 7970 ever since I switched to nvidia I played less. It could be because the TV I changed from Philips 8404 to 7007 . but I can't be sure .


----------



## chuckiz

"agsz"

Hello, after I install these driver's should I turn ON Intel RST in BIOS? bcuz on my asus z97-a its off as default.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> "agsz"
> 
> Hello, after I install these driver's should I turn ON Intel RST in BIOS? bcuz on my asus z97-a its off as default.[/quot
> e]
> 
> off beeter


----------



## chuckiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> "agsz"
> 
> Hello, after I install these driver's should I turn ON Intel RST in BIOS? bcuz on my asus z97-a its off as default.[/quot
> e]
> 
> off beeter
> 
> 
> 
> thanks
Click to expand...


----------



## chuckiz

Guy's can u help me with this in power options it's set on high performance, in bios c-state, EIST, turbo boost is off..
z97-a , 4690k(not OC(power phase: extreme))


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> 
> 
> Guy's can u help me with this in power options it's set on high performance, in bios c-state, EIST, turbo boost is off..
> z97-a , 4690k(not OC(power phase: extreme))


wow huge dpc well i dont like haswell anyway if i was choose motherboard for it it will be MAXIMUS VII GENE the latency on this board best then all boards of z97









dpc testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRUBTaCdzpU


----------



## chuckiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> wow huge dpc well i dont like haswell anyway if i was choose motherboard for it it will be MAXIMUS VII GENE the latency on this board best then all boards of z97
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dpc testing
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRUBTaCdzpU


I reinstalled my OS,formated updated drivers and here's the results



I think its fine now I don't get any error's.. I just affraid to do windows update


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> I reinstalled my OS,formated updated drivers and here's the results
> 
> 
> 
> I think its fine now I don't get any error's.. I just affraid to do windows update


Did you set your DRAM Frequency + Timings (or use XMP) + CPU Core Ratio => Sync All Cores? Only two things that made a difference for me on my Asus Z97-AR. ESEA client has memory leaks at times, which can cause huge DPC spikes :sadly.


----------



## chuckiz

Hi
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Did you set your DRAM Frequency + Timings (or use XMP) + CPU Core Ratio => Sync All Cores? Only two things that made a difference for me on my Asus Z97-AR. ESEA client has memory leaks at times, which can cause huge DPC spikes :sadly.


Hi when i put Cpu core ratio on sync all cores turbo boost automatically turning on and then i Have 3,9Ghz and later when i Play csgo my processor temperature is high like 60-80~ , I didn't check my DRAM Frequency + Timings bcuz I don't know what it is








(sorry for english)


----------



## awkwardstevie

hey guys i am looking for cheap network card for my PC,because i have intels one and it have ALOT of dpc latency spikes (with diffrent drivers)

what do u recommend? It needs to be avalible in EU


----------



## Mahanat

Hi! My mouse polling rate varies from 1 to 1000 hz. Is this generaly legaly?


----------



## awkwardstevie

its normal,dont worry


----------



## chuckiz

Have some body tried this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de-dhAOPtRM
?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> Have some body tried this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de-dhAOPtRM
> ?


I did for windows 10 and windows 8.1 , didn't notice a big performance or at all. the one thing that I had big boost is not using Intel Chipset 10.1.1.13 , it cause both my laptop and desktop lags and rubber banding in every single multiplayer game, including HellDivers , Heroes of the Storm , Leauge of Legends. as soon as I uninstalled every single left over of the driver for windows 10 I didn't install intel chipset just as microsoft default drivers, for windows 8.1 I installed the normal drivers that comes from Asus Laptop drivers 10.1.1.7 or 10.1.1.9 Asus G751JT . Everything works smooth and no more rubber banding or lag issues that didn't even come from the network, it happened on both computers on 2 different places on different network, both lan and wireless, the only change was uninstalling Intel Chipset, nothing else absolutely nothing else.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I did for windows 10 and windows 8.1 , didn't notice a big performance or at all. the one thing that I had big boost is not using Intel Chipset 10.1.1.13 , it cause both my laptop and desktop lags and rubber banding in every single multiplayer game, including HellDivers , Heroes of the Storm , Leauge of Legends. as soon as I uninstalled every single left over of the driver for windows 10 I didn't install intel chipset just as microsoft default drivers, for windows 8.1 I installed the normal drivers that comes from Asus Laptop drivers 10.1.1.7 or 10.1.1.9 Asus G751JT . Everything works smooth and no more rubber banding or lag issues that didn't even come from the network, it happened on both computers on 2 different places on different network, both lan and wireless, the only change was uninstalling Intel Chipset, nothing else absolutely nothing else.


intel chipset is just inf and change names on devices its nothing to.do.with dpc or lag windows 8.1 and 10 suffer from lag becuase they install the last drivers thats why 7 is more lag free i still hate the ataport from it i dont know the update that change to storport


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> intel chipset is just inf and change names on devices its nothing to.do.with dpc or lag windows 8.1 and 10 suffer from lag becuase they install the last drivers thats why 7 is more lag free i still hate the ataport from it i dont know the update that change to storport


It could be just INF , from my experience with Intel if you didn't notice, every driver they made had an big issue. I will give you couple examples.

The intel Network drivers with Ixxx chipset and Intel® 82579V Gigabit LAN Controller when you used windows 7 , 8.1 , 10 with drivers above 19.1 not included you had spikes in DPC every 5 seconds to 10000+. 19.1 was the only driver which worked. I think they fixed it on driver version 20.3 + or something.

Another example is Intel Rapid Storage, windows 8.1 and windows 10 Rapid Storage higher than 12.9.4.xxx any version 13.x and 14.x has APM issue which causes the Hardisk to park every 5 seconds, destroying any hardisk with APM enabled, for example Samsung HD103SJ and Hitachi 7200 and such.

Both examples you can oversee here as I'm not the only one, and some people had their hardisk DIED , but I was smart and realize the 1 hr after installing windows 10 that this should not be like that, and I was with windows 7 till this time skipping windows 8.1 , and it didn't happen in windows 7 no matter what drivers I've used.

I'm telling you the issues you've might missed or didn't see because you didn't use the same hardware, it doesn't mean it pitch perfect no matter how you see it, INF or any other drivers can be destructive and for my friend uninstalling the intel chipset had a better and faster feeling and he's one friend which hard to show him differences.

HDD click (excessive load-unload cycles)
https://communities.intel.com/thread/53305?tstart=0

intel nic drivers 19.3 huge 6000+ dpc latency spike once a few secs
https://communities.intel.com/thread/54594?tstart=0

DPC Latency problems with Intel 82579LM based Network Controller on Windows 8
https://communities.intel.com/thread/43498?tstart=0

Sound ISSUES Windows 10 DPC - Intel LAN drivers
https://www.sysnative.com/forums/windows-10-a/16835-sound-issues-windows-10-dpc-intel-lan-drivers.html

QUOTE " "guys its the intel network driver, anything past 19.1 will cause this issue, i use 18.5 with no issues, install intel driver 18.5 and your dpc latency spikes will go away!"

EDIT : From what I've read it still didn't fixed on the newest drivers (20.3) 20.3 QUOTE "" : :
Quote:


> still not fixed.
> 
> EDIT
> 
> if you disable the Intel LAN in Device Manager the problem goes away
> I recommend buying a cheap USB adapter to use in the mean time, it fixed the problem here.
> 
> EDIT2
> 
> Also as a reminder, MANY network adapters are having issues, Intel isnt alone.
> 
> I am using a TP LINK with Mediatek drivers for windows 8 and the issue is resolved.
> 
> I reinstalled Windows 10 - 5 times before finding out the culprit, HOWEVER the problem didn't show up during my first installations of Windows 10 while I was testing some other softwares and the OS. I think the problem might be related to concurrent connections which I started testing on later installations.
> 
> TLR It seems to happen when using P2P clients like Bittorrent or while opening many concurrent connections.


Do you need any more examples ?

Intel is really a piece of nothing with drivers, CPUS yes, drivers hell no.

I don't care about Intel network cards, I'm using SolarFlare 6212S and this is the best card anyone possibly have, I'm just hoping and waiting for windows server 2016 which might have included drivers for Windows 10 with RSC support, which will make this card just unbeteable in score of performance and dpc, I can reach over 9.5 Gb speed and the DPC will not even move over 100 . I'm connected using RouterOS as my router and using Optical cables from FiberStore.

I know it seems to you it is just INF drivers, but don't you see that uninstalling both Intel Chipset for both my desktop and laptop fixed the issue ? Maybe it has issue for my chipset P8Z77 ? but if you say it's only INF drivers, why would it cause my chipset to have those weird lags, including my friend with Z87 chipset, is it a problem with the 10.1.1.13 ? So if then it does affect the computer even if it's INF.

One more thing, after I uninstalled the Intel Chipset and reinstalled all drivers again, including the SolarFlare drivers I got new settings which supposed to be there but weren't in the initial install. My friend has the same windows and the same card, we tried to do the same because he did not have the same settings like I have after uninstalling the chipset. but the only difference we did is Roll Back the drivers and not uninstalling, eventually Roll Back didn't restore the settings I have and he doesn't. so Uninstalling those drivers must have an effect even for ALL Hardware. My guess those intel Chipset might fix everyone Rubber Band lag for EVERY SINGLE person on the aspect of drivers. at least using a working safe intel chipset driver for example 10.1.1.7 or something like that. still, not all intel chipset are bad, because on my laptop I'm using the specific for the laptop, even though it's for windows 10 and I'm using windows 8.1


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> Have some body tried this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de-dhAOPtRM
> ?


nope. can u do it and post results?









seems to have something to do with gpu, so maybe no perfomance boost in cpu heavy games etc?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> It could be just INF , from my experience with Intel if you didn't notice, every driver they made had an big issue. I will give you couple examples.
> 
> The intel Network drivers with Ixxx chipset and Intel® 82579V Gigabit LAN Controller when you used windows 7 , 8.1 , 10 with drivers above 19.1 not included you had spikes in DPC every 5 seconds to 10000+. 19.1 was the only driver which worked. I think they fixed it on driver version 20.3 + or something.
> 
> Another example is Intel Rapid Storage, windows 8.1 and windows 10 Rapid Storage higher than 12.9.4.xxx any version 13.x and 14.x has APM issue which causes the Hardisk to park every 5 seconds, destroying any hardisk with APM enabled, for example Samsung HD103SJ and Hitachi 7200 and such.
> 
> Both examples you can oversee here as I'm not the only one, and some people had their hardisk DIED , but I was smart and realize the 1 hr after installing windows 10 that this should not be like that, and I was with windows 7 till this time skipping windows 8.1 , and it didn't happen in windows 7 no matter what drivers I've used.
> 
> I'm telling you the issues you've might missed or didn't see because you didn't use the same hardware, it doesn't mean it pitch perfect no matter how you see it, INF or any other drivers can be destructive and for my friend uninstalling the intel chipset had a better and faster feeling and he's one friend which hard to show him differences.
> 
> HDD click (excessive load-unload cycles)
> https://communities.intel.com/thread/53305?tstart=0
> 
> intel nic drivers 19.3 huge 6000+ dpc latency spike once a few secs
> https://communities.intel.com/thread/54594?tstart=0
> 
> DPC Latency problems with Intel 82579LM based Network Controller on Windows 8
> https://communities.intel.com/thread/43498?tstart=0
> 
> Sound ISSUES Windows 10 DPC - Intel LAN drivers
> https://www.sysnative.com/forums/windows-10-a/16835-sound-issues-windows-10-dpc-intel-lan-drivers.html
> 
> QUOTE " "guys its the intel network driver, anything past 19.1 will cause this issue, i use 18.5 with no issues, install intel driver 18.5 and your dpc latency spikes will go away!"
> 
> EDIT : From what I've read it still didn't fixed on the newest drivers (20.3) 20.3 QUOTE "" : :
> Do you need any more examples ?
> 
> Intel is really a piece of nothing with drivers, CPUS yes, drivers hell no.
> 
> I don't care about Intel network cards, I'm using SolarFlare 6212S and this is the best card anyone possibly have, I'm just hoping and waiting for windows server 2016 which might have included drivers for Windows 10 with RSC support, which will make this card just unbeteable in score of performance and dpc, I can reach over 9.5 Gb speed and the DPC will not even move over 100 . I'm connected using RouterOS as my router and using Optical cables from FiberStore.
> 
> I know it seems to you it is just INF drivers, but don't you see that uninstalling both Intel Chipset for both my desktop and laptop fixed the issue ? Maybe it has issue for my chipset P8Z77 ? but if you say it's only INF drivers, why would it cause my chipset to have those weird lags, including my friend with Z87 chipset, is it a problem with the 10.1.1.13 ? So if then it does affect the computer even if it's INF.
> 
> One more thing, after I uninstalled the Intel Chipset and reinstalled all drivers again, including the SolarFlare drivers I got new settings which supposed to be there but weren't in the initial install. My friend has the same windows and the same card, we tried to do the same because he did not have the same settings like I have after uninstalling the chipset. but the only difference we did is Roll Back the drivers and not uninstalling, eventually Roll Back didn't restore the settings I have and he doesn't. so Uninstalling those drivers must have an effect even for ALL Hardware. My guess those intel Chipset might fix everyone Rubber Band lag for EVERY SINGLE person on the aspect of drivers. at least using a working safe intel chipset driver for example 10.1.1.7 or something like that. still, not all intel chipset are bad, because on my laptop I'm using the specific for the laptop, even though it's for windows 10 and I'm using windows 8.1


i dont know about p8z77v but i like more the gene motherboards becuase they have less features less lag you can check.the vii gene viii gene and v gene from my experience they all lag free but z170 and z97 dont let you disable the hpet completely

you can check here vii gene dpc test

https://youtube.com/watch?v=yRUBTaCdzpU

can you tell me if you suffer dpc on your on board network?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> nope. can u do it and post results?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seems to have something to do with gpu, so maybe no perfomance boost in cpu heavy games etc?


i try this useful for amd not sure about nvidia


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i try this useful for amd not sure about nvidia


how did you notice any diffrence?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

As I wrote before, I had a huge problem. Super system and really really bad performance. Mouse and keyboard freezing randomly, also looks something like bandwith problem. Game gets like slowmotion all time (after 5-10 min.)

At least I did solve. Testing for 2 days and played 5-6 hours each day.

BF4 Multiplayer - 2560 x 1440 - High Settings - Super smooth gaming experience. Never used jet - helicopter - tank like this before. Mouse and keyboard responsive super fast.

Here are the steps;

G502 - 1000hz

Intel xHCI Mode Support - Smart Auto
EHCI LEGACY - Disabled
xHCI HandOff - Disabled
EHCI HandOff - Disabled

Didn't touch any Nvidia control settings. Just Maximum GPU Power for games.
And Nvidia High Definition Audio Disabled

Hyperthreading Enabled

Didn't test Intel speedstep yet but for now disabled.

Here is the most important thing;

https://tweakhound.com/2014/01/30/timer-tweaks-benchmarked/

*The Tweaks, Defined*
bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

Actually don't know what are these for exactly, helped too much but didn't solve %100

and from Device Manager - System Devices - High Precision Timer .. Disabled

_Didn't disable from windows HPET. If I disable what happens don't know, but for now it's ok._

And All problems gone. But still don't understand; most players build their own PC, install Windows, Install game(s) and no problem.

Why I had to make these things, don't know.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> As I wrote before, I had a huge problem. Super system and really really bad performance. Mouse and keyboard freezing randomly, also looks something like bandwith problem. Game gets like slowmotion all time (after 5-10 min.)
> 
> At least I did solve. Testing for 2 days and played 5-6 hours each day.
> 
> BF4 Multiplayer - 2560 x 1440 - High Settings - Super smooth gaming experience. Never used jet - helicopter - tank like this before. Mouse and keyboard responsive super fast.
> 
> Here are the steps;
> 
> G502 - 1000hz
> 
> Intel xHCI Mode Support - Smart Auto
> EHCI LEGACY - Disabled
> xHCI HandOff - Disabled
> EHCI HandOff - Disabled
> 
> Didn't touch any Nvidia control settings. Just Maximum GPU Power for games.
> And Nvidia High Definition Audio Disabled
> 
> Hyperthreading Enabled
> 
> Didn't test Intel speedstep yet but for now disabled.
> 
> Here is the most important thing;
> 
> https://tweakhound.com/2014/01/30/timer-tweaks-benchmarked/
> 
> *The Tweaks, Defined*
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
> bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
> 
> Actually don't know what are these for exactly, helped too much but didn't solve %100
> 
> and from Device Manager - System Devices - High Precision Timer .. Disabled
> 
> _Didn't disable from windows HPET. If I disable what happens don't know, but for now it's ok._
> 
> And All problems gone. But still don't understand; most players build their own PC, install Windows, Install game(s) and no problem.
> 
> Why I had to make these things, don't know.


If you use UEFI Fast Boot then the EHCI Legacy doesn't even work, so I don't think this has to do with anything if anyone is using the Fast Boot setting in bios, and why wouldn't you ?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> how did you notice any diffrence?


mouse feel more controllable and my dpc down from 1.55523 to 1.22225


----------



## iknowright

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> As I wrote before, I had a huge problem. Super system and really really bad performance. Mouse and keyboard freezing randomly, also looks something like bandwith problem. Game gets like slowmotion all time (after 5-10 min.)
> 
> At least I did solve. Testing for 2 days and played 5-6 hours each day.
> 
> BF4 Multiplayer - 2560 x 1440 - High Settings - Super smooth gaming experience. Never used jet - helicopter - tank like this before. Mouse and keyboard responsive super fast.
> 
> Here are the steps;
> 
> G502 - 1000hz
> 
> Intel xHCI Mode Support - Smart Auto
> EHCI LEGACY - Disabled
> xHCI HandOff - Disabled
> EHCI HandOff - Disabled
> 
> Didn't touch any Nvidia control settings. Just Maximum GPU Power for games.
> And Nvidia High Definition Audio Disabled
> 
> Hyperthreading Enabled
> 
> Didn't test Intel speedstep yet but for now disabled.
> 
> Here is the most important thing;
> 
> https://tweakhound.com/2014/01/30/timer-tweaks-benchmarked/
> 
> *The Tweaks, Defined*
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
> bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
> 
> Actually don't know what are these for exactly, helped too much but didn't solve %100
> 
> and from Device Manager - System Devices - High Precision Timer .. Disabled
> 
> _Didn't disable from windows HPET. If I disable what happens don't know, but for now it's ok._
> 
> And All problems gone. But still don't understand; most players build their own PC, install Windows, Install game(s) and no problem.
> 
> Why I had to make these things, don't know.


did you tweak these?

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

sry but i am confused


----------



## x7007

Does anyone know if both programs effect mouse lag input ? Asus Gpu Tweak 2 for overclocking and http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/SCP_Driver_Package which emulate PS3 Controller on PC so you can use it.

I uninstalled both of them for changing to Nvidia Inspector to overclock and MotioninJoy just 7.1001 Drivers only not the full spyware program. with Better DS3.exe so It can detect the controller.

My mouse has improved a lot, not feeling laggy anymore, I think that was the different between when sometimes the mouse worked fine and sometimes not, my guess is it worked fine when the drivers was not installed or the controller was not connected and/or the asus gpu tweak 2 was not installed either. so programs can screw the system all over is my guess, not just big drivers or small drivers, even things that doesn't actually running, but just installed.

I suggest not to use those commands

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced

Only this one should improve everything

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

I have tested and find the others doesn't do much good, maybe 1 game out of 50 will have some improvement, but we can never be sure, we need to check a game with FCAT , FPS , Stuttering and a test that can actually show us it's not happening compare to when it's enabled or not.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does anyone know if both programs effect mouse lag input ? Asus Gpu Tweak 2 for overclocking and http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/SCP_Driver_Package which emulate PS3 Controller on PC so you can use it.
> 
> I uninstalled both of them for changing to Nvidia Inspector to overclock and MotioninJoy just 7.1001 Drivers only not the full spyware program. with Better DS3.exe so It can detect the controller.
> 
> My mouse has improved a lot, not feeling laggy anymore, I think that was the different between when sometimes the mouse worked fine and sometimes not, my guess is it worked fine when the drivers was not installed or the controller was not connected and/or the asus gpu tweak 2 was not installed either. so programs can screw the system all over is my guess, not just big drivers or small drivers, even things that doesn't actually running, but just installed.
> 
> I suggest not to use those commands
> 
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
> 
> Only this one should improve everything
> 
> bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
> 
> I have tested and find the others doesn't do much good, maybe 1 game out of 50 will have some improvement, but we can never be sure, we need to check a game with FCAT , FPS , Stuttering and a test that can actually show us it's not happening compare to when it's enabled or not.


just debug the nvidia kernel and remove some useless features windbg etc its wil remove the laggy mouse that you talking about


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i try this useful for amd not sure about nvidia


http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-windows-speed-tips-that-don-t-work-686087/2


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-windows-speed-tips-that-don-t-work-686087/2


they test only win vista vista is the same of 7 or 8.1 ? no so you cant be sure if its work or not but for me he did win32priorityseparation useful for amd and all.irqs becuase when you set it to 24 its let cpu synchronizing all irqs whats give time to operate


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> just debug the nvidia kernel and remove some useless features windbg etc its wil remove the laggy mouse that you talking about


how do you suggest I do that ? Any guide or source to understand what we looking for ?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iknowright*
> 
> did you tweak these?
> 
> bcdedit /set useplatformclock true
> bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
> bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
> 
> sry but i am confused


Yes, I did use these commands. The link I gave in post, you can find how to remove again if doesnt help.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Yes, I did use these commands. The link I gave in post, you can find how to remove again if doesnt help.


A good example to check if it fixes anything is to try War Thunder

Video example before and after, shows the FPS drops by more than 50%

Deleting the Value fix the issue

https://youtu.be/oBmRLwhfoK4

Another example someone says this fixed his Flash Lag issue

http://www.kilovox.com/flash-player-problems-after-upgrading-to-windows-10/

Using Harmonic HWBOT program from the link in the site tells you if something is wrong with values and numbers.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> A good example to check if it fixes anything is to try War Thunder
> 
> Video example before and after, shows the FPS drops by more than 50%
> 
> Deleting the Value fix the issue
> 
> https://youtu.be/oBmRLwhfoK4


Please test. If doesn't help, add this; Disable HPET from Device Manager - System Devices



And also wanted to test my RAM - in normally works 15-17-17-35 - I did set to 15-15-15-35 with the same voltage.

It didn't effect gaming experience (both positive or negative way) - Increased bench points.

But when I changed this to "extreme" lag started again - DRAM POWER PHASE CONTROL - Standart to Extreme - So did back to standart


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Please test. If doesn't help, add this; Disable HPET from Device Manager - System Devices
> 
> 
> 
> And also wanted to test my RAM - in normally works 15-17-17-35 - I did set to 15-15-15-35 with the same voltage.
> 
> It didn't effect gaming experience (both positive or negative way) - Increased bench points.
> 
> But when I changed this to "extreme" lag started again - DRAM POWER PHASE CONTROL - Standart to Extreme - So did back to standart


What the Dram Power Phase Control fixed for you ? Optimized is not good either ?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Didn't test all but I can say "Extreme" really creates lag for me. "Standart" works perfect. But I'll test optimized too. I did test 15-15-15-34 - 1.2V - Standart - was perfect.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

And I enabled "Intel Speed Step" and choosed "balanced mode" from windows - was perfect. So looks problem is not about CPU's work. If I don't need to run it full power at all time, why should I use. Temp will be more low and fans will work more slow, more quiet.

So, that commands and disabling HPET (from device manager) %100 fixed my problem.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> And I enabled "Intel Speed Step" and choosed "balanced mode" from windows - was perfect. So looks problem is not about CPU's work. If I don't need to run it full power at all time, why should I use. Temp will be more low and fans will work more slow, more quiet.
> 
> So, that commands and disabling HPET (from device manager) %100 fixed my problem.


Same, I use EIST and balanced, works perfect.

Forcing HPET timer in windows ( Userplatformclock ) screw the game like in the video, I prefer not using it as this example shows why, even though the game ran really good for some reason.... but the menu lagged like crazy.

I tried now HPET Off/disabled both bios and windows. DRAM Auto, because I have optimized and Extreme.

Another great forum about this subject

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1267614-windows-10-doesnt-like-adaptive-cpu-clock-changing/
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1270202-windows-10-and-hpet-with-underclocking/

The only thing I want to understand is if did this thing effect my Ping/Latency, I just for the first time played ThunderWar and the ping was ok 80-85 and then after I disabled HPET in windows the ping went to 205 after I tried again, even though I played the same map twice and the ping was the same, so I don't know if it's the server, might be, but it could be other thing if we didn't check.

But all and all the mouse is really moving fine now, so no issue with mouse.

I'll keep following the windows Time so I'll know if it has the RTC bug.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I don't even know what this thread is turning into. Throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks doesn't even seem to be the right analogy.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I don't even know what this thread is turning into. Throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks doesn't even seem to be the right analogy.


Haha, I feel you. But what can one expect in a thread where virtually nothing is backed by actual numbers and/or benchmarks? The bull**** starts literally in OP's first sentence, and that's your cue to take things with a grain of salt in here.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 
> 
> So I just got the new Gigabyte 970 GTX OC (2nd revision, not G1) today, replacing 570 GTX reference, and wow my system feels way different. Even though I'm running the same drivers, desktop movement is far different than before. I think it's because Fermi cards downclocked core and memory way too low at idle state and Maxwell uses much higher idle values:
> 
> 
> 
> If you moved the cursor with Fermi at idle power state and PCIE mode 1 vs highest power state (p3? p4?) and PCIE mode 3.0, there was a huge difference in how the cursor moved. Doing the same thing with Maxwell, you still notice a difference, but it's much less than before. I was really worried that the "Gigabyte Flex Technology", which is their custom implementation of having a crap ton of display outputs would cause some major problem, but it's pretty much flawless. There's no lag or buffering or anything like that due to it. I'm on the 2nd revision Gigabyte 970 though, I did hear about people on the Gigabyte 970 G1 first gen with backplate having problems with ports flat out not working at all.
> 
> The 970 card uses line based interrupt mode by default, not MSI. If I forced my Fermi card from line based to MSI mode, there was a small difference in cursor movement, but nothing that huge. Generally it felt worse in MSI mode though. When I do the same thing with the 970 card, there's not a small difference, it's a large difference, and it makes cursor movement much worse. There must be some reason Nvidia doesn't use MSI mode.
> 
> The reason I was testing MSI mode in the first place is I was going to see if using the 970 in MSI mode along with a PCI-E sound card in MSI mode would fix the PCI-E sound card's latency problems. For some reason, the problem is much less pronounced with the Maxwell GPU than Fermi and you can actually run a PCI-E sound card with this GPU.


So why would nvidia will be using MSI on laptop with the same card ? it's obviously same 970 chip just cut with some cuda core and 192 bit. AMD used MSI on both Desktop and Laptop cards. I can't understand why Nvidia doesn't have MSI mode enabled for all of their cards. at least why on Laptop it is MSI and not on Desktop ?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Haha, I feel you. But what can one expect in a thread where virtually nothing is backed by actual numbers and/or benchmarks? The bull**** starts literally in OP's first sentence, and that's your cue to take things with a grain of salt in here.


We are looking for the common things, better than trying to find rarity and to pinpoint any thing that repeating in sustain of performance or numbers, sometimes feelings gets you going, or you don't believe in love ?


----------



## pox02

aspect ratio on amd is feeling of no scaling on nvidia









someone test it ?


----------



## x7007

I will start filling up some things with Mouse lag input

*Asus GPU Tweak 2* - Uninstall
*SCP Gamepad controller Driver* - Uninstall
No Scaling NCP - Unselected Ovrrride scaling on games and programs
Not Instaling Nvidia GPU Experience
HPET Bios Enabled only - I'm not sure if Disabling is causing issues with the GPU Clock idle mode which makes it stuck on 678 mhz for 970GTX.

No one has files on this folder and a file named NvBackend.exe running in taskmanager ?
C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core
If this file ran on startup every time I had windows DING when restarting/signoff/shutdown , after I removed it and it's not starting or running anymore I don't have the issue.

Causes the mouse to have weird lag input.

I will fill more as I remember more

As current situation.

I don't have the Idle clock problem using what I said on above.

When you install nvidia drivers make sure to remove the folder Update Core from the installation folder before installing so it will not install it.

EDITED : ADDED / will be more


----------



## pox02

AtihdW76.sys remove this dpc audio garbage if someone have amd

now

i was tested full screen + centered

the mouse movement feels same on both modes

what i recommend if someone have xl2720 (Best Pixel Process) use 4:3 monitor and on full screen amd driver that give you the mouse movment you always want it


----------



## Vantavia

Any suggested settings for AMD crimson? When I first got my card it felt snappy as hell, then aiming felt "meh" again like it did with my nvidia card. This seemed to correlate with scaling mode, my monitor was using the hardware scaler at first, then it stopped using it for no reason and I can't get it back.


----------



## awkwardstevie

i am using default with amd optimization


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i dont know about p8z77v but i like more the gene motherboards becuase they have less features less lag you can check.the vii gene viii gene and v gene from my experience they all lag free but z170 and z97 dont let you disable the hpet completely
> 
> you can check here vii gene dpc test
> 
> https://youtube.com/watch?v=yRUBTaCdzpU
> 
> can you tell me if you suffer dpc on your on board network?


Of course I suffered from it. 19.1 worked good all the rest had DPC jumps to 8000-10000 every 5 sec


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Any suggested settings for AMD crimson? When I first got my card it felt snappy as hell, then aiming felt "meh" again like it did with my nvidia card. This seemed to correlate with scaling mode, my monitor was using the hardware scaler at first, then it stopped using it for no reason and I can't get it back.[/quoti suggest to use driver 15.1 beeter performance then crismon until they fix some bugs on they're drivers


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Mine started again.... You can't imagine how annoying this is... Hpet and dynamictick enabled again. But today I saw an advice in Nvidia forum about *Shader Cache* Never saw it before. In every forum people say leave it defalut / enabled

So I did disabled it. Than rebooted and deleted Temp files.

Defalut directory

C:\Windows\Temp\NVIDIA Corporation\NV_Cache

delete everything in NV_Cache , but if you changed TEMP folder for SSD using, find it and delete everything in it.

Try, may help. Mine looks helped. If this doesn't work again, I don't what to do...


----------



## softskiller

Disabling shader cache can prevent stutter and also shader bugs in CS:GO where stickers will be rendered wrong (and flicker).


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Disabling shader cache can prevent stutter and also shader bugs in CS:GO where stickers will be rendered wrong.


Where more can it help ? The guy from 3D vision hacks always says to disable it.


----------



## softskiller

My slight guess is, that shader cache also doesn't like it, when one changes video quality settings and the cache data doesn't match the actual settings. Or when there are map updates for CSGO and old map data got cached? But it's only a guess.


----------



## LzbeL

which is the best driver for nvidia in windows 10?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> which is the best driver for nvidia in windows 10?


344.11 beta


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> 344.11 beta


that driver is from 2014, windows 10 is newer. Ah, I have GTX960 too. 344.11 is compatible minium gtx970


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> that driver is from 2014, windows 10 is newer. Ah, I have GTX960 too.


i see well i dont know i never use win 10 you should replace it to 7 or 8.1 10 is the most laggy os


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i see well i dont know i never use win 10 you should replace it to 7 or 8.1 10 is the most laggy os


how is it "the most laggy os" ?
with some optimizations i would say its the best OS.
Snappy, no crashes


----------



## pox02

i was tested keyboard 125hz + NKRO vs 1000hz + NKRO but with ARM Processor

1000hz feels beeter to me i dont know why i think its the ARM Processor that connect on keyboard

name keyboard is Ducky Mini

here screen



Unknown device + i was able to disable 2 of my USB Ports amazing

1 usb is mouse
2 usb is keyboard

perfect combo


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i was tested keyboard 125hz + NKRO vs 1000hz + NKRO but with ARM Processor
> 
> 1000hz feels beeter to me i dont know why i think its the ARM Processor that connect on keyboard
> 
> name keyboard is Ducky Mini
> 
> here screen
> 
> 
> 
> Unknown device + i was able to disable 2 of my USB Ports amazing
> 
> 1 usb is mouse
> 2 usb is keyboard
> 
> perfect combo


its better ps2 for keyboard. A IRQ dedicated for it only.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> its better ps2 for keyboard. A IRQ dedicated for it only.


i dont have ps2 in my board and my IRQ fine


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> its better ps2 for keyboard. A IRQ dedicated for it only.


ps2 adapter don't seem to work with my corsair strafe keyboard. it lights up and stuff but cant use it


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> ps2 adapter don't seem to work with my corsair strafe keyboard. it lights up and stuff but cant use it


if you dont have ps2 on your board you cant use ps2 even adapter dont even work because the signal come from usb

sorry to disappoint you


----------



## PurpleChef

ff
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> if you dont have ps2 on your board you cant use ps2 even adapter dont even work because the signal come from usb
> 
> sorry to disappoint you


1 x PS/2 keyboard/mouse port
i have one port


----------



## pox02

so the keyboard you trying is not capable of ps2


----------



## LzbeL

344.11 beta is not compatible with gtx960... what another driver is recommended?


----------



## chuckiz

where can i download 344.11 beta? i can only find whql


----------



## LzbeL

Look guys:



I only have two IRQ's for USB ports...why?? And one IRQ (16) is share with other devices. :S

And I can not put them in different IRQ. IRQ 23 for mouse use it exclusively.

Only USB 3.0 had a different IRQ, but this thread is recommended to disable it.


----------



## softskiller

Does anyone also experience much better mouse response when the print spooler service stays on it's default autostart - even when the printer is off all the time?

It almost seems like it's better for USB when this service is running and it can see that no printer is online even when you have no printer at all.


----------



## pox02

i never experienced in IRQ but this is mine the should be ok because i dont see any interfering of my IRQ


----------



## Curleyyy

Two questions:

1.) Intel Chipset? I've heard lots about off / on with this.

Pros / Cons with it being enabled / disabled?

I'm mostly curious as to how it negatively affects a system by being installed (Windows 7)

2.) When I click on Start > All Programs there's a few folders such as Accessories and Startup. I've got my own called Programs that I use to group up every application that I install. Sometimes, usually when I put a new application in the folder, or delete an old one, the folder structure gets weird and Windows duplicates folders / items.

- I'm wondering what the actual cause is and if there's a fix.


----------



## pox02

Intel Chipset Remove

2

MSI Remove
Apple Software update you dont need so you can remove it i dont know if you can update it manually

C-Media audio panel ? what is this? if its your sound card keep it if not rremove more dpc audio fat

Geforce Remove

and everything else looks ok to me


----------



## Curleyyy

Wasn't really what I was asking. I'm wanting to know information on Intel Chipset, not if I should / shouldn't disable it.

Also wanting to know if there's a bug fix for the Start Menu issue (posted here due to active users)


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Wasn't really what I was asking. I'm wanting to know information on Intel Chipset, not if I should / shouldn't disable it.
> 
> Also wanting to know if there's a bug fix for the Start Menu issue (posted here due to active users)


Intel Chipset just update the devices with inf and change names nothing installing

2 change to UI Classic more mouse responsive


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i never experienced in IRQ but this is mine the should be ok because i dont see any interfering of my IRQ


you only have a one irq dedicated to usbs??? (23)


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> you only have a one irq dedicated to usbs??? (23)


yes


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> yes


then you have irq interferences if you connect 2 devices usb or more.


----------



## pox02

i dont think so are you sure ?


----------



## Curleyyy

Without reading back 20 pages, what's everyone tweaking in the IRQ section?

I just read the post about changing your IRQ listings into MSI mode though I'm not sure which device I should do that for / all of them.

My mouse is on IRQ 23 and it's the only listing.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i dont think so are you sure ?


yes, both use IRQ 23 dude.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> yes, both use IRQ 23 dude.


so its good way because we want that two devices repeat signal of IRQ 23


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> so its good way because we want that two devices repeat signal of IRQ 23


but is recommended irq dedicated to every device right???


----------



## pox02

Right


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> where can i download 344.11 beta? i can only find whql


good question. always thought they were the same?


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Does anyone also experience much better mouse response when the print spooler service stays on it's default autostart - even when the printer is off all the time?
> 
> It almost seems like it's better for USB when this service is running and it can see that no printer is online even when you have no printer at all.


how did you notice this small thing? i cant see how it can affect mouse


----------



## LzbeL

any tweak about IRQs???
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> how did you notice this small thing? i cant see how it can affect mouse


Placebo ... that disease xD


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> how did you notice this small thing? i cant see how it can affect mouse


The Printer Spooler service can have a heavy effect on some systems. Just like with any of the tweaks, not every PC is the same and some things work strangely for others. For example, I have to plug a microphone in the rear port to play CoD4 with the Realtek drivers for my onboard audio, however, my friend does not.


----------



## LzbeL

Only find a pcie express card with usb 3.0... no 2.0... 3.0 is not recommended right?


----------



## pox02

someone test the intel 82802 firmware hub enable vs disable ?


----------



## pox02

with 82802 Hub Disable









The Most Stable Rate i never seen yay


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> with 82802 Hub Disable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Most Stable Rate i never seen yay


Can you show which you disabled in device manager screenshot?


----------



## Curleyyy

I've still got a few tweaks left to do. Haven't done IRQ's properly although the mouse is on 16 and the only device on that one.

Few things left to disable in regards to processes and BIOS settings.

Haven't tried 1000hz yet.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Can you show which you disabled in device manager screenshot?


----------



## LzbeL

what is Firmware 8282 hub ?¿¿


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I've still got a few tweaks left to do. Haven't done IRQ's properly although the mouse is on 16 and the only device on that one.
> 
> Few things left to disable in regards to processes and BIOS settings.
> 
> Haven't tried 1000hz yet.


If you connect USB to your usb port header 2.0 in motherboard, u can get another IRQ 99%. (IRQ 23 very probably)


----------



## PurpleChef

Guys, its time!

*List your top 3 pro tweak tipz* working ones Kappa


----------



## pox02

how much high level IRQL you get guys when running for 15 min ?

this is mine


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Guys, its time!
> 
> *List your top 3 pro tweak tipz* working ones Kappa




pox02 can you write up a 10 minute guide on a bunch of tweaks you've done that you would recommend everyone doing, it seems like you've tweaked a heap of things and i'm interested to know what


----------



## PurpleChef

+1,Yes, that would be awesome.
Got a sabertooth mb. What youre optimal bios settings for gaming? Dont care about power save, just performance








And Curleyyy, youre up


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 
> 
> pox02 can you write up a 10 minute guide on a bunch of tweaks you've done that you would recommend everyone doing, it seems like you've tweaked a heap of things and i'm interested to know what


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 
> 
> pox02 can you write up a 10 minute guide on a bunch of tweaks you've done that you would recommend everyone doing, it seems like you've tweaked a heap of things and i'm interested to know what


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 
> 
> pox02 can you write up a 10 minute guide on a bunch of tweaks you've done that you would recommend everyone doing, it seems like you've tweaked a heap of things and i'm interested to know what


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 
> 
> pox02 can you write up a 10 minute guide on a bunch of tweaks you've done that you would recommend everyone doing, it seems like you've tweaked a heap of things and i'm interested to know what


i just follow guide from R0ach

i never understand why need to disable ASM1061 its the SSD maybe that problem i get high dpc on ataport.,sys

i prefer to use Ghostbuster when i run my system because all the time i get ghosted devices that dont need "https://ghostbuster.codeplex.com/"

i high recommend to use PrivateFirewall its disable netbios and some bad things that dont need on system

Keyboard its about PCB ARM are the best in keyboards like Ducky mini you need arm processor to get only 1 usb of mouse and 1 usb of keyboard if someone have ps2 so you dont need it but yes r0ach recommend 125hz only if you have bad cheap keyboard that dont have NKRO

now MSI MODE need only SATA Drive and Network nothing else


----------



## pox02

and one more thing i never back to nvidia when its come to gpu not only the kernel problem but high latency mouse when its come to driver vs driver when my hd 7950 arrived i was test it against my gtx 970 and gt 730 i get beeter mouse responsive with amd gpu


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i just follow guide from R0ach
> 
> i never understand why need to disable ASM1061 its the SSD maybe that problem i get high dpc on ataport.,sys
> 
> i prefer to use Ghostbuster when i run my system because all the time i get ghosted devices that dont need "https://ghostbuster.codeplex.com/"
> 
> i high recommend to use PrivateFirewall its disable netbios and some bad things that dont need on system
> 
> Keyboard its about PCB ARM are the best in keyboards like Ducky mini you need arm processor to get only 1 usb of mouse and 1 usb of keyboard if someone have ps2 so you dont need it but yes r0ach recommend 125hz only if you have bad cheap keyboard that dont have NKRO
> 
> now MSI MODE need only SATA Drive and Network nothing else


Tryed to disable that one aswell, couldn't boot. Had to enable. Is it just two of the sata ports, or? worth to change?
using 2 ssd's.

Will check out the program PrivateFirewall. Any settings important to change?

Do you use all the bios settings exacly as in his guide? did some basic overclocking according to some guide on this forum, and all settings dosnt seem to show the same

Any sabertooth users? settings?


----------



## LzbeL

***, when i connect my roccat mouse, i have in devices manager, hid keyboard... why?? i have ps2 keyboard xd

The recommended drivers for intel lan card,, is this, right??

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24159/Network-Adapter-Driver-for-Windows-8-?product=50395


----------



## fxniqab

13) On-board audio - Disable. Enormous input lag.

so what am i supposed to do if i want to hear something ?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> 13) On-board audio - Disable. Enormous input lag.
> 
> so what am i supposed to do if i want to hear something ?


You're not supposed to hear anything. You're supposed to enjoy your low latency potato.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Tryed to disable that one aswell, couldn't boot. Had to enable. Is it just two of the sata ports, or? worth to change?
> using 2 ssd's.
> 
> Will check out the program PrivateFirewall. Any settings important to change?
> 
> Do you use all the bios settings exacly as in his guide? did some basic overclocking according to some guide on this forum, and all settings dosnt seem to show the same
> 
> Any sabertooth users? settings?


Use raid0 on 2 ssd to get the most lowest dpc

Private firewall use high settings

I use all settings even hpet but with turbo boost i dont know if its affect on mouse movement but its more performance 4.9ghz with intel step disable of course

I never had sabertooth motherboard i. Like more the gene motherboards not only its stable then p8z77-v and the pro its have lowest latency


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> 13) On-board audio - Disable. Enormous input lag.
> 
> so what am i supposed to do if i want to hear something ?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> You're not supposed to hear anything. You're supposed to enjoy your low latency potato.


Hahaha you killing me )


----------



## fxniqab

so a pcie soundcard it is in case i want to hear something but still have good mouse response. did i get that right ?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> so a pcie soundcard it is in case i want to hear something but still have good mouse response. did i get that right ?


I'm pretty sure the r0ach and the diehards would tell you those are no good either, considering both Creative and Asus drivers are just as bad, if not worse, than Realtek. USB devices aside from mice are also forbidden by the cult.

I suppose some of the uncommon PCI cards from other companies that do not use any of the popular chips (and thus drivers) might have lower latency, but as that has never been documented, I couldn't really say.

For more rational human beings, just use whatever sound card you would normally use. The existence of sound is worth a completely imperceptible-to-humans latency hit. If you've gone out of your way to follow _any_ of the steps in this guide, you've already done more than 99.9% of users - you can afford to skip this one.


----------



## fxniqab

i was just a little confused because he said to disable onboard audio without mentioning how else to get sound.

i played cs on my friends computer the other day. exactly the same ingame sensitivity, dpi but the mouse felt worse than on my own pc way less responsive as if my movements were delayed.
how can this happen. i havent followed anf of r0achs steps in this thread, not on my rig and not on my friends.
he has a gigabyte board and nvidia gpu.
i have asus and amd gpu both about the same age. just like on my pc he has only necessery tasks running while playing.
so my question is how can mouse movement feel so different. is it because of the hardware ?


----------



## Fluxify

So this weekend, I did some tweaking to my computer along with all these tweaks, getting rid of ghosted drivers, and using the program TweakMe.

Should it be concerning that now my CPU is always at a minimum of 55 Celcius when it use to be around 40-45 Celcius? My CPU is an i5-4440. The fan speed seems to be around 1200 RPM and I am using the stock cooler.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> So this weekend, I did some tweaking to my computer along with all these tweaks, getting rid of ghosted drivers, and using the program TweakMe.
> 
> Should it be concerning that now my CPU is always at a minimum of 55 Celcius when it use to be around 40-45 Celcius? My CPU is an i5-4440. The fan speed seems to be around 1200 RPM and I am using the stock cooler.


You would likely have disabled SpeedStep / C1E etc,. through the motherboard with the recommended options in this thread. Those sorts of options disable the ability for the CPU / Motherboard to fluctuate the CPU frequency / voltage depending on the usage. So instead of being 3.5Ghz at 1.2v when it's not used and 4.5Ghz at 1.3v when it is, it's now likely a constant 4.5Ghz at 1.3v which will give you a higher idle temp. (Those numbers were just used as example)


----------



## Curleyyy

I disabled Hyper Threading VIA the BIOS last night and played a few games of CS:GO and while my frame rates didn't change (I expected a slight decrease) the game felt more fluid. Most likely placebo but nonetheless I felt as if the game was more fluid.

A friend of mine mentioned that you get more single core performance from disabling Hyper Threading and instead of an application like CS:GO taking up 1 core and 1 thread, it's now taking up 2 physical cores, therefore receiving a performance gain. Although I'm not sure how accurate, although likely, this is.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Hello people








*2pox02*I did not understand about the Intel chipset driver.
i must delete chipset driver for better mouse responsive?
My specs: P67Pro3; 2500k 4.5ghz 8gb WIN10x64 ssd. nvidia 364.51 whql
UEFI:c3 c6 disabled: hpet - disable; c1e-enable; x45 offset; speedstep and TB - enable. windows energyplane - balance

I tried some tweaks about IRQs
Firstly i use REG key *Win32PrioritySeparation* = 26 hex and i add *IRQ23Priority* = 1 hex;

turn off - Intel(R) 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 1C2D*IRQ16*
turn off - Intel(R) Management Engine Interface
turn off - High Definition Audio
now i use Intel(R) 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family USB - 1C26 = *23 IRQ*

After this tweaks i have mutch better mouse responsivnes. i dont lie








this is the first time I immediately noticed a difference in the movement mouse. mostly i play csgo.

GTX770 = IRQ16 and ASUS Xonar IRQ16. just two devices now have same irq





MouseMovementRecorder - is fine?? my mouse ec1a.. bcz ur MouseMovementRecorder is loocks better
what do u think about my Latency monitor results?
and about hard pagefaults? can i fix this? i have pagefile 4096 on my ssd








do u try experiments about Harmonic v0.0003. i dont use this but i want to try it
what do u think about *IRQ13Priority IRQ8Priority and IRQ23Priority = 1?? or this same settings - Win32PrioritySeparation = 26* def 2
any recomendations?)
Thanks


----------



## pox02

someone know that LLC dont take any affect on my mouse ?

i was able to get 5.1ghz with LLC med and get better performance of course my mouse feels a lot faster temp safe 60C MAX LOAD using H2O 1250 COOLER from antec









@IAMSTERDAM

IRQ23Priority not working anymore i was tested and yes Win32PrioritySeparation 26 is safe for synchronizing all IRQS

your mouse rate not stable there some mouses that have Bad Hardware Sensors or something i prefer logitech or zowie for most stable rates but i see you use EC Series something wrong on your system C1 and all save settings maybe not disable

ASUS Xonar just garbage input lag eater not only drivers you should try old ones like Audigy or use board card to get most lowest latency


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> someone know that LLC dont take any affect on my mouse ?
> 
> i was able to get 5.1ghz with LLC med and get better performance of course my mouse feels a lot faster temp safe 60C MAX LOAD using H2O 1250 COOLER from antec
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @IAMSTERDAM
> 
> IRQ23Priority not working anymore i was tested and yes Win32PrioritySeparation 26 is safe for synchronizing all IRQS
> 
> your mouse rate not stable there some mouses that have Bad Hardware Sensors or something i prefer logitech or zowie for most stable rates but i see you use EC Series something wrong on your system C1 and all save settings maybe not disable
> 
> ASUS Xonar just grabge input lag eater not only drivers you should try old ones like Audigy or use board card to get most lowest latency


pagefile is fine i have high latency from it its safe dont worry


----------



## pox02

i was test g402 and ec-a 1

g402 get me on bios 2 keyboard 1 mouse 2 hubs
EC-1 get me on bios 1 keyboard 1 mouse 1 hub

i dont know why logitech use 2 things someone can explain please?


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

@pox02 This my UEFI settings:





500 polig rate


NEW EC1-A mouse
Asus Xonar D2X - to be exact
i try to enable c1e state and disable - i see no changes about poling rate
where to dig? =))


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i was test g402 and ec-a 1
> 
> g402 get me on bios 2 keyboard 1 mouse 2 hubs
> EC-1 get me on bios 1 keyboard 1 mouse 1 hub
> 
> i dont know why logitech use 2 things someone can explain please?


Like in the device manager when you order by connection, you can see that a mouse consist of multiple input devices.
All those extra buttons show up as additional devices and some as keyboards.
Your G402 has just more extra buttons than the EC-1.


----------



## pox02

speedstep disable thermal no excute virtullztion disable i see you use offest mode well i dont know about it so you can keep it

cpu load line if its stable for you change to med if not dont do anything

check again and tell me if its still not stable


----------



## pox02

cpu thermal no excute virtuallztion disable
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Like in the device manager when you order by connection, you can see that a mouse consist of multiple input devices.
> All those extra buttons show up as additional devices and some as keyboards.
> Your G402 has just more extra buttons than the EC-1.


i see well i will send it to the garbage to


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

pox, for god's sake please buy a keyboard that has some punctuation keys.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> You would likely have disabled SpeedStep / C1E etc,. through the motherboard with the recommended options in this thread. Those sorts of options disable the ability for the CPU / Motherboard to fluctuate the CPU frequency / voltage depending on the usage. So instead of being 3.5Ghz at 1.2v when it's not used and 4.5Ghz at 1.3v when it is, it's now likely a constant 4.5Ghz at 1.3v which will give you a higher idle temp. (Those numbers were just used as example)


Should I be worried about temperatures up into like the high 60 Celcius range, early 70 Celcius?

My CPU is an i5-4440, and my case is really bad.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> pox, for god's sake please buy a keyboard that has some punctuation keys.


Keyboard is only about pcb and processor that handle everything


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Keyboard is only about pcb and processor that handle everything


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> speedstep disable thermal no excute virtullztion disable i see you use offest mode well i dont know about it so you can keep it
> 
> cpu load line if its stable for you change to med if not dont do anything
> 
> check again and tell me if its still not stable


after disable speedstep no excute and virtullztion


It felt a little better on the 500 hz
but 1000hz still not good?) 1013 - 1011hz it not stable? why i have over 1000hz









i have LLC - 3 is not med level? if i use LLC2 my core voltage going up mutch more.

before i try 2 use offset and c1e state enable. now disable
if i have all c state disable and speedstep disable i must to go fixed mode? or i can stay offset?
USB Legacy Support - Auto
HPET - how can it affect??


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*


You can laughing but thats the true ps2 its option but there boards that dont have ps2 and the only option we have is good arm processor or asmidia that handle every keystroke on keyboard without blocking or anything
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IAMSTERDAM*
> 
> after disable speedstep no excute and virtullztion
> 
> 
> It felt a little better on the 500 hz
> but 1000hz still not good?) 1013 - 1011hz it not stable? why i have over 1000hz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have LLC - 3 is not med level? if i use LLC2 my core voltage going up mutch more.
> 
> before i try 2 use offset and c1e state enable. now disable
> if i have all c state disable and speedstep disable i must to go fixed mode? or i can stay offset?
> USB Legacy Support - Auto
> HPET - how can it affect??


We on good way yes disable c1 usb legacy disable disable the error recovery sometime in bios hpet disable if you have option llc is not safe on high only med or regular(off) i suggest to use saving to performance on windows


----------



## pox02

VCCIO Full Phase Control Enable for get more responsive system


----------



## Fluxify

How bad is it that I use maxed out Windows speed?


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Ingame test. 500 and 1000hz
400dpi, m_rawinput "1"
I am surprised
*Prefetch and Superfetch - on ssd disable or enable?*



as i understand it was bad








how to fix this?)

and cs 1.6


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IAMSTERDAM*
> 
> Ingame test. 500 and 1000hz
> 400dpi, m_rawinput "1"
> I am surprised
> *Prefetch and Superfetch - on ssd disable or enable?*
> 
> 
> 
> as i understand it was bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how to fix this?)
> 
> and cs 1.6


The input on cs go and cs 1.6 are bad everyone have that dont worry about it i suggest to remove those games anyway
Prefetch and Superfetch disable


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> How bad is it that I use maxed out Windows speed?


What do you mean maxed out windows speed?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> What do you mean maxed out windows speed?


I think he means this and if he does it means you won't have a 1:1 scale of mouse to input. Windows multiplies your input to get to anywhere above the 6th notch and this causes various issues such as pixel skipping. Where no matter how small of a mouse movement you make you wont be able to hit that pixel.


----------



## softskiller

This is interesting, a little optical device for latency measurement - meant for VR benchmarks.

But I think it could also be used to measure the whole chain from input to calculating and image till it's displayed on your ordinary monitor

https://www.basemark.com/vrscore/


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> This is interesting, a little optical device for latency measurement - meant for VR benchmarks.
> 
> But I think it could also be used to measure the whole chain from input to calculating and image till it's displayed on your ordinary monitor
> 
> https://www.basemark.com/vrscore/


Couldn't this be a game changer if it's decent/affordable? (No pun intended). Though how the hell does it even work.


----------



## Vantavia

Just emailed them to see if it's compatible and if not, if they would make one that is and supports more API's.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> The input on cs go and cs 1.6 are bad everyone have that dont worry about it i suggest to remove those games anyway
> Prefetch and Superfetch disable


that is, these results it is normal?
all who play CSGO - have the same results? right?)
i try to use MarkC Windows_10+8.x_MouseFix_ItemsSize=100%[email protected]
i see no changes.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IAMSTERDAM*
> 
> that is, these results it is normal?
> all who play CSGO - have the same results? right?)
> i try to use MarkC Windows_10+8.x_MouseFix_ItemsSize=100%[email protected]
> i see no changes.


thats right i remember the old cs 1.6 its was have the best rate the most stable i never seen i miss to old one







and its was on windows xp with Win32k.sys patch from anir


----------



## pox02

actually cs 1.6 have stable rate against cs go


----------



## Fluxify

This will be a longshot but e-mail the CS:GO Team(http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php) about your data. Maybe they can improve it but I doubt it. A reddit post and sending it to the mods through mod mail would be good too. (https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/)


----------



## Curleyyy

I've got both my soundcard and graphics on the same IRQ, what do I do to get them on their own?

My mouse is on its own IRQ (23) should it be a lower one like 16? I've read that there's groupings of numbers that have priority.



Also I think all of my USB devices might be on the same ones too? not sure


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I've got both my soundcard and graphics on the same IRQ, what do I do to get them on their own?
> 
> My mouse is on its own IRQ (23) should it be a lower one like 16? I've read that there's groupings of numbers that have priority.
> 
> Also I think all of my USB devices might be on the same ones too? not sure


You can attempt running your video card in MSI mode. This will give it it's own negative number just like your network card. http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044

Before you attempt this on your system make sure you follow the instructions. It would probably be a good idea to create a system restore point before hand just in case.


----------



## PurpleChef

What benefits?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> You can attempt running your video card in MSI mode. This will give it it's own negative number just like your network card. http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044
> 
> Before you attempt this on your system make sure you follow the instructions. It would probably be a good idea to create a system restore point before hand just in case.


I had been reading up on that the other day, which sparked the interest. At the bottom of his thread post there's a .zip folder with a bunch of tweaks for each device. I ran all of them haha ended up with a bsod so reinstalled. So if I create a restore point and run one of the files for say my gpu and i get a bsod i do the system restore and it's all good?

How do I go about changing my gpu and sound card so they have their own irq (is this possible as they are both pcie)
Also which irq is optimal for each device, should mouse be on 16?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I've got both my soundcard and graphics on the same IRQ, what do I do to get them on their own?
> 
> My mouse is on its own IRQ (23) should it be a lower one like 16? I've read that there's groupings of numbers that have priority.
> 
> 
> 
> Also I think all of my USB devices might be on the same ones too? not sure


huge IRQS Problems


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> huge IRQS Problems


Well don't stop there haha go on...

What needs changing.
How do I do the changing.

...and go!


----------



## Vantavia

Just a friendly reminder that all the people who are orders of magnitude better than you don't use these tweaks.


----------



## Curleyyy

What's that got to do with anything? Have you not read the slogan for this website?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Nvidia Control Panel - This one comes always as 1 when installed. Changed to "Use 3D App", big difference!?



I think it's "Virtual Reality PreRendered Frames", not Max Pre rendered frames.

Why it creates big lag for me; 2K + FireWire sound card. Don't know but like this better for me.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> What's that got to do with anything? Have you not read the slogan for this website?


Sometimes people need reminding when those pursuits are futile, I used to do the same BS and still do to a lesser extent. I'd rather roast game devs for unstable frametimes, or unnecessary fps caps, things that are provable and noticeable.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I think he means this and if he does it means you won't have a 1:1 scale of mouse to input. Windows multiplies your input to get to anywhere above the 6th notch and this causes various issues such as pixel skipping. Where no matter how small of a mouse movement you make you wont be able to hit that pixel.


Will this cause me any problems? I use m_rawinput 1 for CS:GO.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> ***, when i connect my roccat mouse, i have in devices manager, hid keyboard... why?? i have ps2 keyboard xd


does your mouse have on board memory to save macros or something? might be why
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> Will this cause me any problems? I use m_rawinput 1 for CS:GO.


raw input bypasses that setting so you're good


----------



## Fluxify

Good to know.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> Sometimes people need reminding when those pursuits are futile, I used to do the same BS and still do to a lesser extent. I'd rather roast game devs for unstable frametimes, or unnecessary fps caps, things that are provable and noticeable.


You make a good point. Although I'm at the stage where I just want to see how deep I can go.


----------



## freddycatking

What the **** is going on in here anymore? most of you play CSGO anyway which will just have weird latency and bad performance no matter what and they won't change it because they're working on what most players want; Maps and gameplay mechanics. Unless someone finds something groundbreakingly crucial the only useful thing I could imagine someone doing here is compiling a bigger list of everything someone should do for the lowest latency possible within reason.


----------



## Fluxify

Exactly. Someone needs to compile a big list then post it on Reddit. Show math, pictures, and numbers and you'll get upvoted. Make it long too.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> What the **** is going on in here anymore? most of you play CSGO anyway which will just have weird latency and bad performance no matter what and they won't change it because they're working on what most players want; Maps and gameplay mechanics. Unless someone finds something groundbreakingly crucial the only useful thing I could imagine someone doing here is compiling a bigger list of everything someone should do for the lowest latency possible within reason.


----------



## Curleyyy

If we want that to happen, which I do, we need to stop **** talking one another and help everyone understand what these tweaks are, what they do and collaborate with one another. If you all want I can construct the reddit post and keep it maintained / updated. Though it wouldn't be any different from this thread, just more informative and structured better where anyone can follow and understand what's happening.


----------



## freddycatking

I dont even want reddit to know lol I judt want to make sure anyone whos gotten this far knows they havent missed anything.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> If we want that to happen, which I do, we need to stop **** talking one another and help everyone understand what these tweaks are, what they do and collaborate with one another. If you all want I can construct the reddit post and keep it maintained / updated. Though it wouldn't be any different from this thread, just more informative and structured better where anyone can follow and understand what's happening.


The simple removal of r0ach "blind armless ****** sloth infant" nonsense, constant contradictions, and absolute nonsense entries about "feels" that have no objective results, would make a "remake" of this thread, here or elsewhere, a thousand times better than the original.

I'd also urge the creator of such a thread to state that intention of the "guide" is simply to minimize latency, for the sake of minimizing latency, and whatever that is worth to the user, rather than being "an absolute requirement for anyone who even wants to open a spreadsheet".

Better structure and organization would just be added (albeit much needed) bonuses.


----------



## pox02

r0ach all ways be my latency guy


----------



## agsz

lots of this stuff is placebo 100%. Once people go to a LAN, they'll realize 99% of this stuff isn't worth it.


----------



## LzbeL

Any test the Windows Embedded Standard 7 version? before installation u can remove features of windows... is a modular windows more or less.


----------



## x7007

Did any of you have Asus P8Z77 or any equal with Asmedia USB3 Controller and you installed the Asmedia drivers 1.3x and not using Microsoft Native windows 8.1 or windows 10 drivers ?

Cause I think the Asmedia probably were meant to use with Asus Suite II / III to be able to enable USB3 Boost or any other kind of performance settings. but when you are not using Asus USB 3 boost or Asus Suite , using the Asmedia drivers when there is microsoft native ones just hurt everything , performance and mouse control.

I tested using Segate External 3TB Desktop Plus Hardisk - Copying to SSD and copying from SSD Sandisk SDSSDXPS480G

Using Microsoft Native Drivers windows 10
Read : 180 - 177 mb/s
Write : 144 mb/s
Mouse Control was superior was like I bought a new mouse.

Using asmedia_usb3_1.16.34.1(www.station-drivers.com) / or any lower version it doesn't matter
Read : 180 - 177 mb/s
Write : 110 - 107 mb/s
Mouse Control was slow and felt like it sliding on water and not moving like in an instant.

I recommend don't install the Asmedia drivers for windows 8.1 or windows 10 , it was meant for windows 7, even if they say Windows 10 supported, cause the performance is hurt in this way.


----------



## Huzzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> HPET - Now runs on an application level if requested. Most X99 boards and Windows 10 don't use HPET.
> Dynamic Vcore, Turbo, C states and Speedstep are now optimized for worry free delay and performance. They increase DPC a little, but has no effect in real world usage.
> Gen 3 PCI-E. Fine on Auto. Does not degrade performance or cause input delay.
> IRST - Better to have the pre-install drivers installed instead of nothing at all.
> Chipset drivers - Actually useful for Windows 10 on older chipsets. Increase performance, stability and allow everything to work as intended.
> Execute disable bit, Intel Virtualization Technology - No effect on input. Little change to DPC.
> USB 3.0 - No issues leaving this on Auto. USB 3.0 is well implimented on Z87 and higher. Even X79 USB 3.0 is more or less fine to use.
> VRM's, power phases ect - Fine on Auto. No effect to mouse input or DPC.
> 
> The times have changed, and so has hardware and software implimentations.


This is one interesting post Bradley.

My question(I hope you can answer) is on the newer boards. Is it a hidden setting mostly because it is installed and locked in as an "ON" function.

I'm sitting on z77 myself on win10 right now and am contemplating on trying it off again with this system. Because when running win7 and 8.1 I settled sitting with HPET on purely because it caused some weird issues at certain instances when it was switched off. But turning it off did gain a better noticeable increase in system snappyness. Particularly the cursor. I settled with ON because it provided more consistency and stability which is obviously more important.

Seeing that win10 doesn't really utilise it at all, I'm wondering if switching it off would actually yield the benefit that I had before without the negative as the OS simply doesn't utilise it anyway.

So in saying this, I'm more interesting in the part of the sentence where you mention that it runs on the application level. Can you elaborate on that? What is the source? Does it work having it off on the platform side and still have it operational within the application level, on an OS that doesn't actually even utilise it(other than install its driver when it detects it present).

The entire goal is to simply get even more of that awesome snappy feel from the PC that I got before, albeit this time hoping to achieve it without the inconsistencies and problems that it yielded earlier. Which are all noticeable by the way.
Obviously, all subjective stuff but I'm curious about your input, let me know if I'm talking out of my ass on some of these things or whatever.

Thanks.

EDIT: Nvm, messing with HPET is simply not a wise idea still, at least on my PC. I tried it off and did some tests, after which a lot of stuff was kind of broken.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I've got both my soundcard and graphics on the same IRQ, what do I do to get them on their own?
> 
> My mouse is on its own IRQ (23) should it be a lower one like 16? I've read that there's groupings of numbers that have priority.
> 
> 
> 
> Also I think all of my USB devices might be on the same ones too? not sure


Why you don't install Intel chipset drivers ?your smbus not detected...
You don't use Intel Irst too ?
And bradley c states still lower Ssd performance on 4k speed.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Why you don't install Intel chipset drivers ?your smbus not detected...
> You don't use Intel Irst too ?
> And bradley c states still lower Ssd performance on 4k speed.


From what I've read the Intel Chipset Drivers aren't required.

I don't use IRST, should I be?

I can get Intel Chipset Driver 10.1.1.14 which is 2.7 MB from Intel
or I can get Intel Chipset Driver V9.3.0.1021 from ASUS (motherboard site) which is 247.91 MB.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> From what I've read the Intel Chipset Drivers aren't required.
> 
> I don't use IRST, should I be?
> 
> I can get Intel Chipset Driver 10.1.1.14 which is 2.7 MB from Intel
> or I can get Intel Chipset Driver V9.3.0.1021 from ASUS (motherboard site) which is 247.91 MB.


Intel Chipset v10.1.1.14 if your motherboard falls under the following:
Quote:


> The Intel® Chipset Device Software contains holder for the Following:
> 
> § Intel® Atom ™ / Celeron / Pentium® Processor
> 
> § 6 th Generation Intel® Core ™ processor family
> 
> § Intel® Core ™ M processor family
> 
> § 5 th Generation Intel® Core ™ processor family
> 
> § 4 th Generation Intel® Core ™ processor family
> 
> § 3 rd Generation Intel® Core ™ processor family
> 
> § 2 nd Generation Intel® Core ™ processor family
> 
> § Intel® 100 Series Chipset
> 
> § Intel® 9 series chipset
> 
> § Intel® C230 series chipset family
> 
> § Intel® C220 series chipset family
> 
> § Intel® C210 series chipset family


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Why you don't install Intel chipset drivers ?your smbus not detected...


Doesn't installing Intel RST through Device Manager solve that? If not, than installing Intel Chipset Driver's using -overall in the command line did, for me at least.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Doesn't installing Intel RST through Device Manager solve that? If not, than installing Intel Chipset Driver's using -overall in the command line did, for me at least.


Smbus only comes from the IntelChipset drivers , no need for overall command.

Intel Chipset is Required , but not least we can't see any obvious reason why it wouldn't


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Smbus only comes from the IntelChipset drivers , no need for overall command.
> 
> Intel Chipset is Required , but not least we can't see any obvious reason why it wouldn't


Oh, I totally misread that, thought you said Intel RST fixes that. My fault


----------



## x7007

Do I have the feeling that using Nvidia Power Management mode : Maximum performance will give better mouse control ? because I did it and had restart, I felt an immediate better mouse control. I think that's what most people usually forget because we want lower consumption but we don't see the effect straight away and we go to other things that "might" . If anyone can test it. windows 10 x64, Logitech G502 - no LGS drivers - 364.51

As for the Clock Idle stuck 658.5 mhz or 7xx mhz . I found couple leads.

one it could be Windows Automatic Maintenance - TESTING
You can disable it from here
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/40119-automatic-maintenance-enable-disable-windows-10-a.html

2, it can be fixed when using 359.00 drivers

3 http://board.byuu.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=22911#p22911

4 https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/916069/geforce-drivers/gtx970-clock-rate-throttling-and-temporary-fix-/post/4804031/#4804031

https://github.com/d-b/NVFIX/releases/latest

5 using Maximum performance Globally


----------



## pox02

Change the Clock audio to performance make cursor faster


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Change the Clock audio to performance make cursor faster


and what does it do? dont wanna **** anything audio related


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> and what does it do? dont wanna **** anything audio related


What does it really do ? is there a KB about it ? or info


----------



## freddycatking

This just keeps record of audio events, I don't see why it needs to be on.


----------



## Curleyyy

pox, can you elaborate on things you say haha


----------



## Nastya

As far as I can tell, these are settings related to the platform clocks (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378450&page=15). From what can be read in this thread, setting this to performance may be advantageous for newer CPUs with HPET enabled, but that particular setting (Audio) is not mentioned there. In any case, the guy mbk1969 (who was also behind the MSI mode articles) actually seems to know his **** in Windows unlike some of the jesters in this thread, so give it a try or not. I highly doubt it is going to have any effect on cursor movement, though. I'm still wondering why a Performance Monitor would hold any performance-altering settings anyway.


----------



## pox02

Change the Clock audio to performance make Crusher faster

Deactivate
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> pox, can you elaborate on things you say haha


just change the clock of audio make it more less quality and mouse more responsive


----------



## freddycatking

I... Really don't think that setting changes audio quality. I think it has to do with tracing audio events.

EDIT: Also I tried audio: disabled instead. It may be unrelated but in my experience it caused occasional micro stutters. I'm going to try audo, system and application on performance now instead.


----------



## pox02

i found mystery amd driver hooking the callback when the only display driver installed i warning you guys something fishy on amd when using only display driver









download pchunter and unhook the callback when system up its give you the most performance on amd driver


someone know why sata need hook the callback ? (PowerState)


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> I... Really don't think that setting changes audio quality. I think it has to do with tracing audio events.
> 
> EDIT: Also I tried audio: disabled instead. It may be unrelated but in my experience it caused occasional micro stutters. I'm going to try audo, system and application on performance now instead.


you seem to have alot of tweaks on your system. whould u mind sharing them?

Pox plz, we need more info, you just throwing stuff out without much info or guide ^^


----------



## tehelelol

anyone tested new nvidia drivers?


----------



## pox02

i was test win 8 once again and still love the latency on it not only storahci that replace ataport bad ! and usbport stuck on low latency so its good to go but the mouse movement feels not well do you guys have any suggestions ? my dpc keeps in 1-3 do i need install any update of mouses or something? using win8 pro update 1


----------



## whood

I guess it's Triple buffering in Win 8/8.1/10. It's the only reason why i stick to Win7. You can disable DWM and feel the difference for sure.
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/141175


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whood*
> 
> I guess it's Triple buffering in Win 8/8.1/10. It's the only reason why i stick to Win7. You can disable DWM and feel the difference for sure.
> https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/141175


you right something feels off on win8 im not sure if its the DWM but its off


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whood*
> 
> I guess it's Triple buffering in Win 8/8.1/10. It's the only reason why i stick to Win7. You can disable DWM and feel the difference for sure.
> https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/141175


Double buffering, not triple in this case.


----------



## pox02

i guess nothing will compare against win 7







well time back to old days again


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i guess nothing will compare against win 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well time back to old days again


The question is, were would you notice this? were is the "!atency" test?

I see no reason to run Windows 7 at all. Give me some or stop making stuff up


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> The question is, were would you notice this? were is the "!atency" test?
> 
> I see no reason to run Windows 7 at all. Give me some or stop making stuff up


Feels like he's brain is doomed with all this stuff, thinking way too much about it.


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> You make a good point. Although I'm at the stage where I just want to see how deep I can go.


http://prntscr.com/an71er
and directx 10,11 and 12 and that's scratching the surface.


----------



## softskiller

Does this forum really have no Realtek HD audio driver thread?
Since realtek comes up with new drivers every single day on their FTP server - but never posts them on their download page.

And audio drivers have a strong influence on DPC.
Not easy to pick the "right" one that feels best.


----------



## tekwiz99

that's because it often used as an onboard solution.

no matter how much you improve on the software side, it will still be using same IRQ channel,
let alone with other critical components.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Since realtek comes up with new drivers every single day on their FTP server - but never posts them on their download page.


You're saying there's a more updated version than this? (R2.79)

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> You're saying there's a more updated version than this? (R2.79)
> 
> http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false


yes, http://station-drivers.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=4&id=7&Itemid=255&limitstart=780&lang=fr#11495


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> You're saying there's a more updated version than this? (R2.79)


Google "Latest Realtek High Definition Audio Codecs" and you find an 80 pages forum thread where they always post the latest ftp links.

Noone really knows what those new drivers change (no changelog) and why realtek never updates their website with that ancient 2015 driver.

Okay kurt posted a link, I could post it too, but don't know if it's allowed http://www.tenforums.com/drivers-hardware/5993-latest-realtek-hd-audio-driver-version-79.html

It's totally insane how often they release new WHQL drivers, they also end at the microsoft "update catalog".
But I never actually got a realtek via windows update. It's all crazy.


----------



## Curleyyy

Thanks for the links!

Is there a way to download without using the Windows Update Catalogue? I've disabled Internet Explorer.

I've seen Realtek, amongst other software drivers, in the Windows Updates page after formatting though it doesn't always come up.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Thanks for the links!
> 
> Is there a way to download without using the Windows Update Catalogue? I've disabled Internet Explorer.
> 
> I've seen Realtek, amongst other software drivers, in the Windows Updates page after formatting though it doesn't always come up.


So you want feed your system with huge latency ? For god sake buy audigy card and enjoy the clear sound its only 20€ i guess and no latency around


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> So you want feed your system with huge latency ? For god sake buy audigy card and enjoy the clear sound its only 20€ i guess and no latency around


Nah I've got an Essence STX but I also use my onboard. If I didn't use my onboard at all I'd uninstall realtek


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Nah I've got an Essence STX but I also use my onboard. If I didn't use my onboard at all I'd uninstall realtek


So let me get this straight you use your own board and sound card ? Well goodluck with that


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> that's because it often used as an onboard solution.
> 
> no matter how much you improve on the software side, it will still be using same IRQ channel,
> let alone with other critical components.


Realtek drivers produce less dpc latency on my system than the junk Creative calls drivers. Realtek onboard can also run in MSI mode so no IRQ conflicts. Creative cards cannot run in MSI mode.


----------



## softskiller

I am no soundcard expert, my last one was like 20 years ago.
But if you have one, it's pretty important to have a PCI-E one and not a (legacy) PCI one.

Some of those nasty third party PCI bridges like from ASmedia have IRQ polling bugs that slow down the whole system.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I am no soundcard expert, my last one was like 20 years ago.
> But if you have one, it's pretty important to have a PCI-E one and not a (legacy) PCI one.
> 
> Some of those nasty third party PCI bridges like from ASmedia have IRQ polling bugs that slow down the whole system.


my old esi [email protected] pci soundcard is way better then the integrated bull****. cant even compare the soundquality. no latency problems


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Oops nevermind


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> So let me get this straight you use your own board and sound card ? Well goodluck with that


I don't understand what you're insinuating.

I use the audio I/O port on my motherboard for my microphone (Maximus V Gene's SupremeFX III audio)
I use my soundcard to power my 2.0 speakers (Audioengine A5+) and to also power my headphones (ATH-AD700)

If I had the right microphone plug or got off my ass and head down to the shop to get the connector adapter it'd be gravy.

If I dont plug a mic into my rear motherboard slot (the pink connector) Call of Duty 4 doesn't open.


----------



## IceAero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Realtek drivers produce less dpc latency on my system than the junk Creative calls drivers. Realtek onboard can also run in MSI mode so no IRQ conflicts. Creative cards cannot run in MSI mode.


Can you clarify one thing for me...

I have Realtek onboard sound on my ASUS VIII Hero, but I don't see any Realtek device in my device manager when I list them by connection type.

I do see the device in the standard device manager, but when I sort by ISA/IRQ, I see nothing, only two "high definition audio devices" using IRQ .

I'd like to be sure that I'm running my onboard in MSI mode, but, given the above, I have no idea how!


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Double buffering, not triple in this case.


Yeah, thanks.


----------



## pox02

https://world.taobao.com/item/3037504742.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.EEuciH#detail

the only with low latency i never seen


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IceAero*
> 
> Can you clarify one thing for me...
> 
> I have Realtek onboard sound on my ASUS VIII Hero, but I don't see any Realtek device in my device manager when I list them by connection type.
> 
> I do see the device in the standard device manager, but when I sort by ISA/IRQ, I see nothing, only two "high definition audio devices" using IRQ .
> 
> I'd like to be sure that I'm running my onboard in MSI mode, but, given the above, I have no idea how!


The other audio device is most likely from your video card. On my PC the device listed as audio bus is from the video card while audio controller is the onboard realtek. The realtek onboard sound should be under the PCI express root complex section when viewing devices by connection. The other audio device will be listed right under your video card which will be under the pci express controller. You can check your IRQ list after disabling the video card's 'High Definition Audio Bus'.


----------



## IceAero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The other audio device is most likely from your video card. On my PC the device listed as audio bus is from the video card while audio controller is the onboard realtek. The realtek onboard sound should be under the PCI express root complex section when viewing devices by connection. The other audio device will be listed right under your video card which will be under the pci express controller. You can check your IRQ list after disabling the video card's 'High Definition Audio Bus'.


Ah, yes, thank you!

I took a closer look, and when when I "view devices by connection" I see my Realtek HD Audio under one of the "high definition audio controller"s (@ PCI bus 0, device 31, function 3)

So, I used the MSI_util to set both of the "high defintion audio controllers" to MSI (I suppose the 2nd is my GPU, though I have it disabled--Oh, should I have the controller disabled as well, or just the device under "sound video, and game controllers" ???)

Anyway, both are now showing a negative IRQ, and my sound is working fine, so I guess it works









The only thing left with an IRQ is my SATA controller (which isn't my primary drive [my intel 750 shows about 9000 MSI entries]) and my Intel 100 series Chipset Family SMBus A123

Is there any reason to set that chipset device to MSI?


----------



## PurpleChef

Oh my mouse movement so perfect in win 10. Oh no, lower latency on win 7. omg gotta go win 7. i would communicate ingame if it wasnt for the super high latency i get cus of the integrated sound. only play with mouse, i bound all movement to mouse. gg

after trying most of this **** out hard, i call is BS when it comes to mouse movement


----------



## pox02

windows 8.1 + UEFI best Performance? Yep i found why i get lag on mouse

Dpc Stuck on 3-4 and not go above 10 !!

My Settings

Boot Device Legacy+UEFI
all others uefi Driver only

+ DWM Disabler thanks to kLeptO for create that script

http://www.mediafire.com/download/dnjf3fb0b1nittg/composition+disabler.zip










Enjoy Gaming Guys


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> windows 8.1 + UEFI best Performance? Yep i found why i get lag on mouse
> 
> Dpc Stuck on 3-4 and not go above 10 !!
> 
> My Settings
> 
> Boot Device Legacy+UEFI
> all others uefi Driver only
> 
> + DWM Disabler thanks to kLeptO for create that script
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/download/dnjf3fb0b1nittg/composition+disabler.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy Gaming Guys


You find out every day why u get mouse lag, so that's not a big suprise.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> You find out every day why u get mouse lag, so that's not a big suprise.


Yes. Not much info, no guide, no pro and cons, just throwing stuff out without backing stuff up


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Yes. Not much info, no guide, no pro and cons, just throwing stuff out without backing stuff up


It's so annoying. Surely he's long past the point where you can realistically tell a difference in mouse response or a delay anywhere in his system, not to mention he's now found out what is causing his mouse lag but tomorrow he's also going to find out... C'mon man.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Here, download: https://mega.nz/#!dMkRWCjT!vZkgbC1ogRxm8fmX53Q23c6LhABE-tfdB3K3HucFhuo - And install through device manager only. That's Intel RST v13.2.4.1000 - best for 8-Series/9-Series Chipsets.


im not recommend to install that only intel chipset and you done

i have stable rate without it


----------



## Curleyyy

Gotta say, putting aside all of the countless things you tweak Pox, that is a beautiful looking readout.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

It's not hard to get polling like that really. Or better. Especially because those type of snapshots represent a very small fraction of a second of USB polling. Mine for instance is about 1/12th of a second


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> It's not hard to get polling like that really. Or better. Especially because those type of snapshots represent a very small fraction of a second of USB polling. Mine for instance is about 1/12th of a second


Its doesn't matter because there mouses that have good hardware but bad polling rate i can plug my ec2-a and 1000hz will not drop now someone try hook SystemParametersInfo on win32k.sys and set the spi/get mousespeed to zero?


----------



## PurpleChef

my hz not that stable. post all your settings plz



this is from my mb manuall (sabertooth 990fx r2)

mouse is deathadder chroma


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> my hz not that stable. post all your settings plz
> 
> 
> 
> this is from my mb manuall (sabertooth 990fx r2)
> 
> mouse is deathadder chroma


Your mb is amd i would like to see the bios so i can let you know what to disable


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Your mb is amd i would like to see the bios so i can let you know what to disable


All power saving features / Turbo core off
Serial port Disabled
Usb 3 Disabled
Onboard audio Disabled

maybe someone with same MB can tell me what usb ports i can disable in Bios, and what usb for mouse/keyboard.
Crosshair Strafe is the usb keyboard. Sadly its usb and i cant use ps2 adapter, it lights up but it wont work with PS2 Adapter. So the mission is to have them on separate IRQ channels


Only mouse on IRQ 18


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

From the IRQ assignments, it would be optimal to have mouse on a USB2_1-5 port on its own IRQ channel and keyboard on a USB2_11-14 port, which shares IRQ with the ASMedia USB3 which you have disabled in BIOS, so essentially it's on its own IRQ channel as well then. USB2_6-8 are shared with your LAN and should be avoided unless you have a PCI/PCIe network card you're using and have onboard LAN disabled. On page 20 of your mobo manual, you can see USB2_3-6 reside on the back panel. Since you want one of the 1-5 ports, you should plug your mouse into one of the two middle ports I put a red box around in this picture, because port 6 is almost certainly either the port on the very top or the very bottom. In order to plug into USB11-14, you'll have to connect a front panel USB cable or a slot adapter like this into either one of those connectors with the protective caps that I circled in green. Then simply plug keyboard into one of those ports.

[Edit: just noticed that USB2_1-2 are under the LAN port on the back panel, so those two are another option for the mouse]

Check that keyboard and mouse are now the only devices on separate IRQ channels by opening Device Manager, choosing View > Devices by Connection, and expanding the contents of each USB controller until you find the keyboard and mouse. Then right click the top level USB controller you found each device on and choose Properties, Resources tab, and the IRQ channel will be listed in parentheses. There are probably now 3 USB controllers in Device Manager, so if you'd like, you can disable the one that doesn't have the keyboard/mouse plugged in (I wouldn't bother disabling individual ports in the BIOS). You can then switch to View > Resources by Connection and expand the IRQ channels to verify that the remaining 2 USB controllers are each on their own IRQ channel and not in conflict with other devices.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> From the IRQ assignments, it would be optimal to have mouse on a USB2_1-5 port on its own IRQ channel and keyboard on a USB2_11-14 port, which shares IRQ with the ASMedia USB3 which you have disabled in BIOS, so essentially it's on its own IRQ channel as well then. USB2_6-8 are shared with your LAN and should be avoided unless you have a PCI/PCIe network card you're using and have onboard LAN disabled. On page 20 of your mobo manual, you can see USB2_3-6 reside on the back panel. Since you want one of the 1-5 ports, you should plug your mouse into one of the two middle ports I put a red box around in this picture, because port 6 is almost certainly either the port on the very top or the very bottom. In order to plug into USB11-14, you'll have to connect a front panel USB cable or a slot adapter like this into either one of those connectors with the protective caps that I circled in green. Then simply plug keyboard into one of those ports.
> 
> [Edit: just noticed that USB2_1-2 are under the LAN port on the back panel, so those two are another option for the mouse]
> 
> Check that keyboard and mouse are now the only devices on separate IRQ channels by opening Device Manager, choosing View > Devices by Connection, and expanding the contents of each USB controller until you find the keyboard and mouse. Then right click the top level USB controller you found each device on and choose Properties, Resources tab, and the IRQ channel will be listed in parentheses. There are probably now 3 USB controllers in Device Manager, so if you'd like, you can disable the one that doesn't have the keyboard/mouse plugged in (I wouldn't bother disabling individual ports in the BIOS). You can then switch to View > Resources by Connection and expand the IRQ channels to verify that the remaining 2 USB controllers are each on their own IRQ channel and not in conflict with other devices.


Now this is the stuff I come here for. No gibberish broken English without any explanation, just a nice, structured guide. Thanks. Rep+


----------



## pox02

ec2-a


----------



## IceAero

Just an interesting note to drop here regarding MSI mode on GPUs...

I have a 980ti and I've been running it in MSI mode for a while now without issue, though I cannot say I appreciated any cognizable benefit.

I recently noticed that in MSI mode, the card *does not downclock at idle* and reports 30% power consumption.

As a result, it's pulling 90watts 24/7 and spinning the fans.

Changing back to IRQ mode lets it downclock at idle, stop the fans, and drops the idle power consumption to 13.7%.

Annoying--I'm tempted to leave it in IRQ mode.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IceAero*
> 
> Just an interesting note to drop here regarding MSI mode on GPUs...
> 
> I have a 980ti and I've been running it in MSI mode for a while now without issue, though I cannot say I appreciated any cognizable benefit.
> 
> I recently noticed that in MSI mode, the card *does not downclock at idle* and reports 30% power consumption.
> 
> As a result, it's pulling 90watts 24/7 and spinning the fans.
> 
> Changing back to IRQ mode lets it downclock at idle, stop the fans, and drops the idle power consumption to 13.7%.
> 
> Annoying--I'm tempted to leave it in IRQ mode.


That's not something I have noticed, at least for my GTX 780. Which tool did you use to read out these values?


----------



## IceAero

Just using GPUz.

I suspect it may be because I'm running 2 X 1440p monitors, with one at 120Hz. But still, it's surprising to me that the power output is more than double at idle in MSI mode.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> From the IRQ assignments, it would be optimal to have mouse on a USB2_1-5 port on its own IRQ channel and keyboard on a USB2_11-14 port, which shares IRQ with the ASMedia USB3 which you have disabled in BIOS, so essentially it's on its own IRQ channel as well then. USB2_6-8 are shared with your LAN and should be avoided unless you have a PCI/PCIe network card you're using and have onboard LAN disabled. On page 20 of your mobo manual, you can see USB2_3-6 reside on the back panel. Since you want one of the 1-5 ports, you should plug your mouse into one of the two middle ports I put a red box around in this picture, because port 6 is almost certainly either the port on the very top or the very bottom. In order to plug into USB11-14, you'll have to connect a front panel USB cable or a slot adapter like this into either one of those connectors with the protective caps that I circled in green. Then simply plug keyboard into one of those ports.
> 
> [Edit: just noticed that USB2_1-2 are under the LAN port on the back panel, so those two are another option for the mouse]
> 
> Check that keyboard and mouse are now the only devices on separate IRQ channels by opening Device Manager, choosing View > Devices by Connection, and expanding the contents of each USB controller until you find the keyboard and mouse. Then right click the top level USB controller you found each device on and choose Properties, Resources tab, and the IRQ channel will be listed in parentheses. There are probably now 3 USB controllers in Device Manager, so if you'd like, you can disable the one that doesn't have the keyboard/mouse plugged in (I wouldn't bother disabling individual ports in the BIOS). You can then switch to View > Resources by Connection and expand the IRQ channels to verify that the remaining 2 USB controllers are each on their own IRQ channel and not in conflict with other devices.


Thx man.
Mouse is now on IRQ 18 alone. Still cant get that stable 1000hz tho


----------



## tekwiz99

so, any other options to have "dedicated" USB port for just keyboard and mouse?

sounds like dedicating USB2_1-5 and USB2_11-14 just for them would render no room for other USB peripherals.


----------



## Topkek007

Disabling HPET means disabling higher resolution timer making DPC checking tool rely on lower resolution timer without ability to find out more precise DPC (perhaps it works in a pretty weird way relying on some hard coded value between windows clock), HPET should not degradate anything.

ATI video cards with RadeonPro prerendering set to 0 (except 2, when playing cs:go) always seemed to have lower input lag than nvidias, even without setting anything, desktop feels more responsive and other areas with human i/o.

Thing concerning me is that is not all about mouse stability. (As for it I just set it to 500 Hz as 1000 Hz from time to time after some hardware, etc. changes get unstable and needs repetitive fixing.)

When playing cs:go it is possible to change view (rotate camera) without mouse (+left / +right in console). In such way mouse is in no way the culprit, yet, it does not look very smooth (tracking with eyes).

Having 360 FPS stable and rotating looks pretty smooth, but jittering a little creating artificial motion blur (smooth movement would not look that blurry despite monitor blurs, yet when it comes to jitters, it looks as monitor is creating a lot of motion blur) done with fps_max 0, limiting fps with rivatuner statistics server on both AMD ATI and NVIDIA cards. Setting fps_max 180 looks very similar, so does fps_max 60 (except just scan line become a lot more visible (horizontal frame strip varying on heigh). Setting fps_max 60, fps_max 61 with V-sync on? Same results when it comes to the jittering. V-sync on and fps_max 59, it does seem as it makes a jump every second, not a big surprise, I guess. Now more interesting it was when set "32x antialiasing" (8xmsaa and 2x2 ss) in nvidiainspector. FPS was fluctuating about 70-90 iirc, when motion was supposed to be pretty smooth, it was moving, stopping, moving, stopping in short intervals, well, actually looked as if the movement was faster, slower, faster, slower (v-sync off). Putting a fps_max cap where it was stable made it as smooth as all other "jittering a little" cases. As a result, it seems that whether putting heavy load on GPU and setting it to fps_max 60 or low load fps_max 60 it looks as jittery, and frametimes do not change the case when rendering with cap of 360 fps, does not seem to make it a lot smoother, still jitters, but, perhaps, in smaller steps that still do not make up when it comes to outputing it at 60 Hz.

tl;dr

Test results:

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive with +left/+right

AMD ATI and NVIDIA, 60 Hz

360 FPS limit set with RTSS: small jitters
180 FPS limit set on CS:GO: small jitters
60 FPS limit set on CS:GO: small jitters
61 FPS limit, v-sync set on CS:GO: small jitters
60 FPS limit, v-sync set on CS:GO: small jitters
59 FPS limit, v-sync set on CS:GO: small jitters, stutters every second

NVIDIA, 60 Hz

no FPS limit, heavy load made by "32x AA" (8xMSAA and 2x2 SS), flactuating about 70-90 fps: motion seems to becoming faster, slower, faster, slower
60 FPS limit, heavy load made by "32x AA" (8xMSAA and 2x2 SS): small jitters

For conclusion, in this case it is not the mouse/unstable USB polling that cause the small jittering and high frequency frame rate (360 FPS) or low frequency frame rate (60 FPS) do not fix, or even affect the small jittering.

Even playing low resource-demanding games such as yume nikki (free) which is 2d, there are some scenes with supposingly smooth pretty fast moving graphics that seem to have very low jitter, but small stuttering every ?/random frames.

So what is the culprit? It is an amazing treat to play Nintendo DS classic with superb smooth graphics when it comes to comparing to jittery experience consumer hardware/software PC solutions gives.

Could it be flactuating voltage (even though just a little little bit) making timers, etc. in I/O chips go unstable? Anyone had great improvement after some specific hardware changes? Thanks.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topkek007*
> 
> Disabling HPET means disabling higher resolution timer making DPC checking tool rely on lower resolution timer without ability to find out more precise DPC (perhaps it works in a pretty weird way relying on some hard coded value between windows clock), HPET should not degradate anything.
> 
> ATI video cards with RadeonPro prerendering set to 0 (except 2, when playing cs:go) always seemed to have lower input lag than nvidias, even without setting anything, desktop feels more responsive and other areas with human i/o.
> 
> amd all ways be the lowest lag the reason for that is the kernel driver


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Topkek007*
> 
> Disabling HPET means disabling higher resolution timer making DPC checking tool rely on lower resolution timer without ability to find out more precise DPC (perhaps it works in a pretty weird way relying on some hard coded value between windows clock), HPET should not degradate anything.
> 
> ATI video cards with RadeonPro prerendering set to 0 (except 2, when playing cs:go) always seemed to have lower input lag than nvidias, even without setting anything, desktop feels more responsive and other areas with human i/o.
> 
> amd all ways be the lowest lag the reason for that is the kernel driver
> 
> 
> 
> Lower then Crimson drivers? RadeonPro worth using?
> 
> How bout that audio setting? freddycatking reported stuttering. Did system and application on performance now instead change anything?
Click to expand...


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Can you pls check mine;
> 
> Here my IRQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why my ethernet looks like this?
> 
> Motherboard In use and disabled ports
> 
> 
> 
> Bios (PCIe x4-1 disabled - using for SSD )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IRQ Share - Manual
> 
> 
> 
> On board Sound Disabled
> WiFi Disabled
> Bluetooth Disabled
> 
> Using external Firewire sound card
> 
> Also tried this method for GPU - feels better
> 
> http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-vista-tips/manage-irq-settings-windows-vista-7/
> 
> thanks.


----------



## pox02

flipqueuesize 1

give the most possible low input lag on gpu

flipqueuesize 0

destroy some games even its single buffering you dont notice any input lag against 1

flipqueuesize 3 input lag high


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> flipqueuesize 1
> 
> give the most possible low input lag on gpu
> 
> flipqueuesize 0
> 
> destroy some games even its single buffering you dont notice any input lag against 1
> 
> flipqueuesize 3 input lag high


flipqueuesize 2 make some games input lag low some not still 1 its best for low


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Thx man.
> Mouse is now on IRQ 18 alone. Still cant get that stable 1000hz tho


Under what conditions? In order to get a readout as clean as mine or ones pox has been posting, you shouldn't have anything like browsers, Steam, or anything but core utility and drivers. When I take my baseline USB polling measurements, I only have the usual system services running, my AV (ESET NOD32), and the sound and connected ethernet icons are in the tray. That's really about it. Even just having Steam open makes the polling notably worse. And taking measurements while CS:GO is running shows that the polling precision is something like an order of magnitude worse. A browser or video programs probably have a similar if not worse effect on USB polling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tekwiz99*
> 
> so, any other options to have "dedicated" USB port for just keyboard and mouse?
> 
> sounds like dedicating USB2_1-5 and USB2_11-14 just for them would render no room for other USB peripherals.


This only applies to the exact motherboard model I was talking about. For that model, then you could have other USB peripherals on USB2_6-8 ports, if you didn't mind them conflicting with the LAN IRQ channel. This would still leave the mouse and keyboard each their own dedicated IRQ channel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Can you pls check mine;.


Check what about it? Is that an X99-Deluxe or what?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Yes it's x99 Deluxe. What's wrong with my settings. Still feeling lag.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Yes it's x99 Deluxe. What's wrong with my settings. Still feeling lag.


You feeling lag becuase of network that use a lot irqs nvidia kernel make the system unstable and i dont suggest to use msi mode on ahci in my experience its dont let my other drive to show up and lag my ataport a lot disable your firewire sound card and buy one of sb0460 or any other pci sound cards you feel the movement be faster


----------



## Curleyyy

Based off the below images, what would be my next step?

I'm thinking of disabling Realtek HD Audio and getting the microphone adapter for my soundcard, although... I noticed that my GPU and Soundcard share the same as per graph below. (Is this correct?) Would my Soundcard stop my GPU from running at 16x and be forced to run in 8x?



My CPU is also showing up as "Xeon E3 - 1200 v2/3rd Gen" after having run the Intel Chipset but everything else is correct. From what I've seen on Google this seems to be normal. Can I get a validation on that?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Yes it's x99 Deluxe. What's wrong with my settings. Still feeling lag.


Bear in mind I haven't owned a chipset newer than Z77, so I'm not 100% sure on some of this but it's my best guess.

Unless you have a USB device that you specifically want USB 3.0 for, I would change the xHCI setting from 'Smart Auto' to 'Disabled' and leave EHCI Legacy Support and xHCI/EHCI Hand-off as 'Disabled'. I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're looking for optimized USB setup, meaning you only have mouse and keyboard (since your motherboard doesn't have a PS/2 port).

You want your mouse on the EHCI 1 controller, but your motherboard manual doesn't say what ports that corresponds to. I'm going to guess that is USB5 and USB6, the two black ports on the back panel. So plug in your mouse there. Then you would plug your keyboard into a USB11-14 port by connecting either a front panel USB connector or slot connector as I mentioned in my previous post. You can then check in Device Manager as I instructed and see if the mouse is on it's own IRQ or not. If not, then switch where keyboard and mouse are plugged in because like I said, the manual doesn't list whether USB5 and 6 are for ECHI 1 or 2 controller. The keyboard will end up on EHCI 2 controller, which shares IRQ with some other things (SMBUS which isn't a big deal, ASMedia USB 3.0 which you look to have disabled, and PCIEx16_3 which I don't think you are using), but at least the mouse will have it's own channel.

As far as MSI mode, I prefer to put everything in MSI-mode that will accept it. For me, this was everything but the SMBUS controller, my sound card, and the USB controller where my mouse is plugged in. My Device Manager IRQ is a little cluttered, so I've circled in red where you can see these devices in legacy IRQ where everything else has been set to MSI mode. You should research this on your own before messing around with it so you understand the advantages and potential risks associated with doing this, but there is a convenient utility to help if you decide to do so.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Based off the below images, what would be my next step?
> 
> I'm thinking of disabling Realtek HD Audio and getting the microphone adapter for my soundcard, although... I noticed that my GPU and Soundcard share the same as per graph below. (Is this correct?) Would my Soundcard stop my GPU from running at 16x and be forced to run in 8x?
> 
> My CPU is also showing up as "Xeon E3 - 1200 v2/3rd Gen" after having run the Intel Chipset but everything else is correct. From what I've seen on Google this seems to be normal. Can I get a validation on that?


Why on earth would you have on-board sound enabled if you're using a sound card? That's just asking for trouble. One High Definition Audio Controller is showing as disabled under the Xeon PCI Express root port, which is the HDMI sound and is fine as it is. The other High Definition Audio Controller is the onboard audio and should go away once you disabled onboard audio from the BIOS (as I recommend you do).

GPU running at 8x mode is just fine in my experience. I have GPU, LAN, and sound card all in PCIe (x8, x8, and x1 modes, respectively) and there is 0 difference in any synthetic or real-world game benchmarks versus only having the GPU plugged in at x16 mode. The Xeon entries you see are related to chipset and yes, it's fine. I'm guessing it's just the exact same components as the Xeon chipset so the driver is the same. I have an i7-3770K and the PCIe x16 root ports and DRAM controller are shown as Xeon as well.

As far as the "next step", what do you have plugged into EHCI #1, which is IRQ 16? Since it shares resources with PCIE_x4_1, you could experiment with plugging your sound card into PCIE_x8_2 instead. I'm assuming the sound card runs at x1 mode so it should work fine in any PCIe port. Plugging it into PCIE_x8_2 would mean the sound card is competing with the LAN controller instead of whatever USB device(s) you have plugged into the EHCI #1 controller, which might be preferable or provide better performance depending on what the USB device(s) are. You'll just have to experiment here and see if one or the other has measurable or perceptible benefits over the other.


----------



## pox02

disable xsata amd installing some bad thing for hardrive when someone have amd gpu


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> disable xsata amd installing some bad thing for hardrive when someone have amd gpu


I like all your tweak ideas, but when the system gets unstable or acting weird, its kinds hard to know what causing it, when doing alot of tweaking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> flipqueuesize 1
> 
> give the most possible low input lag on gpu
> 
> flipqueuesize 0
> 
> destroy some games even its single buffering you dont notice any input lag against 1
> 
> flipqueuesize 3 input lag high


Thx. any other stuff to tweak?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> I like all your tweak ideas, but when the system gets unstable or acting weird, its kinds hard to know what causing it, when doing alot of tweaking.
> Thx. any other stuff to tweak?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> I like all your tweak ideas, but when the system gets unstable or acting weird, its kinds hard to know what causing it, when doing alot of tweaking.
> Thx. any other stuff to tweak?


thats why there program called latencymon

Disable ULPS
Use Patcher Clock
if you have monitor can adjust scaling i suggest use centered on gpu driver and on monitor 4:3 Aspect Ratio black bars
Disable DXVA_WMV
TFQ High
LodAdj 0
Tessellation off
DisableBlockWrite 1
DisableDMACopy 0
ShaderCache 0
Use ReadonMod
More Settings from R0ach
http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/150


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Bear in mind I haven't owned a chipset newer than Z77, so I'm not 100% sure on some of this but it's my best guess.
> 
> Unless you have a USB device that you specifically want USB 3.0 for, I would change the xHCI setting from 'Smart Auto' to 'Disabled' and leave EHCI Legacy Support and xHCI/EHCI Hand-off as 'Disabled'. I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're looking for optimized USB setup, meaning you only have mouse and keyboard (since your motherboard doesn't have a PS/2 port).
> 
> You want your mouse on the EHCI 1 controller, but your motherboard manual doesn't say what ports that corresponds to. I'm going to guess that is USB5 and USB6, the two black ports on the back panel. So plug in your mouse there. Then you would plug your keyboard into a USB11-14 port by connecting either a front panel USB connector or slot connector as I mentioned in my previous post. You can then check in Device Manager as I instructed and see if the mouse is on it's own IRQ or not. If not, then switch where keyboard and mouse are plugged in because like I said, the manual doesn't list whether USB5 and 6 are for ECHI 1 or 2 controller. The keyboard will end up on EHCI 2 controller, which shares IRQ with some other things (SMBUS which isn't a big deal, ASMedia USB 3.0 which you look to have disabled, and PCIEx16_3 which I don't think you are using), but at least the mouse will have it's own channel.
> 
> As far as MSI mode, I prefer to put everything in MSI-mode that will accept it. For me, this was everything but the SMBUS controller, my sound card, and the USB controller where my mouse is plugged in. My Device Manager IRQ is a little cluttered, so I've circled in red where you can see these devices in legacy IRQ where everything else has been set to MSI mode. You should research this on your own before messing around with it so you understand the advantages and potential risks associated with doing this, but there is a convenient utility to help if you decide to do so.


"My Device Manager IRQ is a little cluttered" this link is not working?

For other infos tahnks. Will try. If you find something new, pls share.

And If I disable xHCI - I loose USB 3.0 transfer speed - Copied files to USB 3.0 HDD and was 28MB per/sec


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Link works fine for me but I'll upload it to OCN anyway

And I said you would lose USB 3.0 doing that. Those are the choices you have to make for yourself.


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Link works fine for me but I'll upload it to OCN anyway
> 
> And I said you would lose USB 3.0 doing that. Those are the choices you have to make for yourself.


did you use HPET and use bcdedit /set useplatformclock true?


----------



## IceAero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IceAero*
> 
> Just an interesting note to drop here regarding MSI mode on GPUs...
> 
> I have a 980ti and I've been running it in MSI mode for a while now without issue, though I cannot say I appreciated any cognizable benefit.
> 
> I recently noticed that in MSI mode, the card *does not downclock at idle* and reports 30% power consumption.
> 
> As a result, it's pulling 90watts 24/7 and spinning the fans.
> 
> Changing back to IRQ mode lets it downclock at idle, stop the fans, and drops the idle power consumption to 13.7%.
> 
> Annoying--I'm tempted to leave it in IRQ mode.


Just a follow up to this observation.

Updating to the latest NVIDIA drivers solved this problem. With the latest drivers, my 980ti *does downclock* at idle. It just did not with the 362.00 drivers.

Go figure.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Link works fine for me but I'll upload it to OCN anyway
> 
> And I said you would lose USB 3.0 doing that. Those are the choices you have to make for yourself.


Hi again; I did use msi tool

All xHCI - EHCI thing disabled

Before



Now




And yes; ASUS manual is the most stupidest thing I've ever seen.... You can't find anything, you can't know what belongs to what.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Let me show you like this, if gives more info; from AIDA 64





On board USB ports - Corsair AX860i PSU USB connection and Corsair H100i Cooler USB connection plugged - Looks Controller 2

Controller 1 - Mouse and Keyboard (rear side)

And this is from HWinfo










Red Marked place is should be Mouse and Keyboard.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Ok, I understand more clear now. Before applying msi tool, I did create windows image. Than back to image file (no msi mode)

As your advice, all xHCI - EHCI things disabled in bios.

These hidden devices I think xHCI - EHCI things;



Also unplugged Corsair PSU and COOLER USB connections from motherboard. Looks the first *Generic USB HUB* has 4 connections and 2 of them in use, which are looks Keyboard and mouse for now. Checked other ones and they all not in use.





Now AiDA64





Played BF4 in test range feels better.

I also checked from AIDA64 for Device Resources; showed GPU shared





I really don't understand what are these thing, just giving for info. But I can feel better when typing too. Hope this is not temporarily...


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I was trying to say it would be better if mouse was on USB Enhanced Host Controller 1 by itself and keyboard on USB Enhanced Host Controller 2 by itself, so leave mouse plugged in where it is and plug in keyboard to one of the ports that puts it on Controller 2 (instead of Controller 1 like it is now). In your current arrangement, keyboard and mouse are still sharing the same IRQ channel.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Why on earth would you have on-board sound enabled if you're using a sound card? That's just asking for trouble. One High Definition Audio Controller is showing as disabled under the Xeon PCI Express root port, which is the HDMI sound and is fine as it is. The other High Definition Audio Controller is the onboard audio and should go away once you disabled onboard audio from the BIOS (as I recommend you do).
> 
> GPU running at 8x mode is just fine in my experience. I have GPU, LAN, and sound card all in PCIe (x8, x8, and x1 modes, respectively) and there is 0 difference in any synthetic or real-world game benchmarks versus only having the GPU plugged in at x16 mode. The Xeon entries you see are related to chipset and yes, it's fine. I'm guessing it's just the exact same components as the Xeon chipset so the driver is the same. I have an i7-3770K and the PCIe x16 root ports and DRAM controller are shown as Xeon as well.
> 
> As far as the "next step", what do you have plugged into EHCI #1, which is IRQ 16? Since it shares resources with PCIE_x4_1, you could experiment with plugging your sound card into PCIE_x8_2 instead. I'm assuming the sound card runs at x1 mode so it should work fine in any PCIe port. Plugging it into PCIE_x8_2 would mean the sound card is competing with the LAN controller instead of whatever USB device(s) you have plugged into the EHCI #1 controller, which might be preferable or provide better performance depending on what the USB device(s) are. You'll just have to experiment here and see if one or the other has measurable or perceptible benefits over the other.


I've been using the onboard due to my use of a microphone for teamspeak as I misplaced the microphone adapter for the line in port on the essence stx.

I've got a Maximus V Gene and if I were to put my soundcard in the middle pci slot wouldn't it heat up too much due to the gpu?



I ran LatencyMon for a little bit earlier, forgot this program existed even though y'all talk about it heaps. I've still got a few things left to do but this is sort of my base run I guess and no 3d apps were opened. Was mostly Chrome and a bit of Desktop usage.


----------



## Curleyyy

oops, pressed quote instead of edit


----------



## Nastya

Browsing through this discussion about IRQ18 and USB Controllers, i've wanted to see how my MSI X99 board handles this. Curiously enough, the two Intel(R) C610 series/X99 chipset USB Enhanced Host Controllers don't seem to handle my mouse, even though it is plugged in to the black USB ports in the back, which are also designated USB2 by MSI.

According to AIDA64, the USB3 xHCI controller handles everything, from my mouse to just about anything I plug in to the ports in the back and even the USB2 header ports on the case. I've tried every port now (even swapping the header connector on the mainboard), but the Enhanced Host Controller is left jobless. IRQ18 is used by the host controller yes, but nothing is plugged in for them.



Can anyone advise me here?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I believe that is what happens when xHCI is enabled or left on auto. EHCI hand-off may return control of the USB ports back to the EHCI controllers...can't remember. But the better solution obviously is to disable USB 3.0/xHCI unless you really need it for something.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I believe that is what happens when xHCI is enabled or left on auto. EHCI hand-off may return control of the USB ports back to the EHCI controllers...can't remember. But the better solution obviously is to disable USB 3.0/xHCI unless you really need it for something.


I've tried it with EHCI handoff on enabled, but no change. There is no choice to disable only USB 3.0 in the BIOS.


----------



## PurpleChef

Whats your thought about Process Lasso? Worth using?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I haven't really tried it much, but in theory it's basically like a more customizable version of Windows' Multimedia Class Scheduler Service. I would be very surprised if it offered much if any real world improvement over MMCSS except in very specific circumstances.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

OK here is my last settings. I did unplug USB keyboard from USB 2.0 port. That port is also using for USB Bios Flashback. Don't know it has special issue... Manual shows this 2 USB 2.0 ports for HDD, but I don't trust manual, they wrote most things wrong or never explain.

Tried to connect to front panel (keyboard) It was uncomfortable and didn't feel difference. So, I did enabe ASmedia controller from bios and connected keyboard to it. Also it's working for USB 3.0 speed. So one port is ready for USB 3.0 speed.



and here USB tree





feels better. Didn't install asmedia drivers, windows foundt it.



also disabled service in windows "Human Interface Device Access" So I'm not able to use multimedia keys on keyboard. But doesn't matter for me, my sound crad has own mic, headphone or master volume knobs. I can control easily.

And thinking; why are we buying these motherboards. I'll never buy something called deluxe, god like, super board, flying board etc. We buy these things and close/disable everything. What is the point... Why are we paying too much money for these things. this was a lesson to me...


----------



## benjamen50

How do you measure dpc latency in windows 10? Anyway I'm using Latencymon at the moment. I hope it's the correct program.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

I just disabled HPET and I'm getting some weird results on dpclat. Right after I disabled it, I was getting 5-15 us of latency. But now it's back to 40-60, like it was before I disabled HPET. I didn't change anything between those two tests. Does anyone know what's going on?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> I just disabled HPET and I'm getting some weird results on dpclat. Right after I disabled it, I was getting 5-15 us of latency. But now it's back to 40-60, like it was before I disabled HPET. I didn't change anything between those two tests. Does anyone know what's going on?


HPET its suppose to get 30-40 without it i get 1.5 us and beeter mouse movement even use HPET + MSI mode if you option to disable hpet completely then do it the system cant handle all IRQS that HPET Timer do more less IRQS the system more responsive and thats why HPET not need on windows hope you get it









http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> HPET its suppose to get 30-40 without it i get 1.5 us and beeter mouse movement even use HPET + MSI mode if you option to disable hpet completely then do it the system cant handle all IRQS that HPET Timer do more less IRQS the system more responsive and thats why HPET not need on windows hope you get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> HPET its suppose to get 30-40 without it i get 1.5 us and beeter mouse movement even use HPET + MSI mode if you option to disable hpet completely then do it the system cant handle all IRQS that HPET Timer do more less IRQS the system more responsive and thats why HPET not need on windows hope you get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://pastebin.com/MjsbgiC9


What I was trying to say is that with HPET switched to OFF in BIOS, my DPC results change from consistent 5-15 on desktop to 40-60 on desktop.


----------



## pox02

what is your motherboard?


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

GA-97X-SLI

Normally there is no option to disable HPET, but I flashed it with a "special BIOS" from a Gigabyte rep that allows you to toggle it off. (https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=27745473)


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> GA-97X-SLI
> 
> Normally there is no option to disable HPET, but I flashed it with a "special BIOS" from a Gigabyte rep that allows you to toggle it off. (https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=27745473)


z97 not good with hpet off you should make it enabled


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> z97 not good with hpet off you should make it enabled


Can you explain this? I thought no HPET was simply better. Why can z97 HPET off start with extremely good DPC latency but get worse suddenly?


----------



## PurpleChef

got a sabertooth 990fx r2 with hpet off (win 8.1) really low latency, and no problems
from all that ive read, off is prefered if no problems occur


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> got a sabertooth 990fx r2 with hpet off (win 8.1) really low latency, and no problems
> from all that ive read, off is prefered if no problems occur


its amd motherboard so i dont know how they react but if its good welldone

for amd he need to change cpu+motherboard that not even close to intel

if he want good motherboard gene vii the real with low latency


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> its amd motherboard so i dont know how they react but if its good welldone
> 
> for amd he need to change cpu+motherboard that not even close to intel
> 
> if he want good motherboard gene vii the real with low latency


"not even close to intel" proof? you say alot of stuff without backing it up with some info man. try harder. use google translate


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> "not even close to intel" proof? you say alot of stuff without backing it up with some info man. try harder. use google translate


why someone build amd if the performance worse then intel?

even g3258 beat FX 8350 when its come to clock vs clock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEEuXQf29Z4


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> why someone build amd if the performance worse then intel?
> 
> even g3258 beat FX 8350 when its come to clock vs clock
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEEuXQf29Z4


¨

If u actually watched the video you can see that in some games the fps is higher. Is this what you call proof? this video just made amd seem like a better choice, and i guess the amd is much cheaper and can be way more overclocked with good cooling. i dont understand your point at all tbh


----------



## Stige

AMD CPUs are awful, end of story. Even an i3-6100 is faster than anything AMD makes. And can be overclocked. And is not on fire with a basic cooler like AMD CPUs and motherboards are.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> AMD CPUs are awful, end of story. Even an i3-6100 is faster than anything AMD makes. And can be overclocked. And is not on fire with a basic cooler like AMD CPUs and motherboards are.


Intel fanboys in da building, stand up


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Intel fanboys in da building, stand up


Just the facts my friend, no reason to deny them really. I'm sorry if you have an inferior CPU.


----------



## Nastya

This is not something to discuss here. Take out your loyalty wars in the corresponding threads. Back on topic, please.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> This is not something to discuss here. Take out your loyalty wars in the corresponding threads. Back on topic, please.


Well I think this thread is just as silly, as if any setting will make any meaningful difference lol, just placebo.

"hurrdurr my mouse has 3ms latency while yours has 5ms!!11"


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> Just the facts my friend, no reason to deny them really. I'm sorry if you have an inferior CPU.


Newer FX chips are not nearly as hot. And the i3-6100 can not be overclocked if you happen to need BIOS fixes posted after the microcode apocalypse.

Intel chips are faster in poorly threaded games, but you have to hit the quads before they are outright better than an FX-6xxx or FX-8xxx.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Newer FX chips are not nearly as hot. And the i3-6100 can not be overclocked if you happen to need BIOS fixes posted after the microcode apocalypse.
> 
> Intel chips are faster in poorly threaded games, but you have to hit the quads before they are outright better than an FX-6xxx or FX-8xxx.


You can overclock the i3-6100 just fine, you can see the stock 6100 demolish here http://www.techspot.com/review/1087-best-value-desktop-cpu/page4.html
I think we can all judge from that what it will do once overclocked.


----------



## Curleyyy

Since disabling Realtek HD Audio my Mouse Movement Recorder is heck of a lot more stable.



1.) How do I disable I.G.F.X
2.) Is EHCI #0 better than EHCI #1
3.) Does GPU perform better in x16 mode than x8 mode?
4.) Would the LAN controller interfere with the Soundcard, especially for bit-perfect audio?
5.) I assume these (circled in red) are the best USB ports to use on this board?



I plugged my mouse into every rear USB port and they all came up as the same IRQ 0x017 (23)

1.) I couldn't figure out which is EHCI #0 or EHCI #1
2.) All rear USB 2.0 ports provided the same results in Mouse Movement Recorder





I'm going to try MSI Mode in a minute.


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> You can overclock the i3-6100 just fine, you can see the stock 6100 demolish here http://www.techspot.com/review/1087-best-value-desktop-cpu/page4.html
> I think we can all judge from that what it will do once overclocked.


If you can OC it.. AFAIK, Intel can push out a microcode update to windows that will break i3-6100 overclocking. And any newer bios/MB is not going to support overclocking it, Intel has already slapped wrists over the issue.

Then there are games that use more than 4 threads, which show the exact same performance or give the FX-8320 an edge at stock. Or game streaming cases where the i3-6100 chokes while the FX-8320 won't.

It all comes down to what you need and what you want. Joe blow who knows nothing about the PCGMR will be fine with an i3. If you find an app you want to run that supports 8 threads or more, the FX-8320 will destroy that little i3. By about 50%

In the context of this thread though, the i3 is horrid. i5 or bust.


----------



## Stige

Is my PC unusable now????


If I unplug my xonar u7 it does this


----------



## Curleyyy

I have an issue, please help

I'm doing the MSI mode and after I apply and reboot, it's not showing up as a negative value in Device Manager but it shows up as ticked in the MSI mode utility.

Does this mean it applied incorrectly?


----------



## Curleyyy

Stige if you're not using Windows 7 then you can't use DPC Latency Checker.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Does this mean it applied incorrectly?


That means the driver couldn't apply the value correctly. I have the Essence STX as well and it doesn't work for me either. The driver doesn't support MSI.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Stige if you're not using Windows 7 then you can't use DPC Latency Checker.


W10 Pro


----------



## Curleyyy

*SMBus Host Controller* - _Booted but didn't change (driver doesn't support msi)_
*MEI* - _Booted but MEI wouldn't start (not sure, doesn't support msi?)_
*USB Host Controller* - _Booted but didn't change_
*USB Host Controller* - _Booted but didn't change_
*SoundCard* - _Booted but didn't change._
*SATA Controller* - _BSOD (0x7E - I think - Had to use Restore Point)_
*LAN* - _Was enabled by default._
*GPU* - _Worked flawlessly._
*PCI bridge* - _Worked flawlessly._
*PCI Express Root* - _Worked flawlessly._
*CPU* - _Worked flawlessly._
*CPU* - _Worked flawlessly._



Can we play with anything here? ( Device Manager > View > Sort by Type > IRQ > Network > Properties > Advanced )


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> *USB Host Controller* - _Booted but didn't change_
> *USB Host Controller* - _Booted but didn't change_
> *SATA Controller* - _BSOD (0x7E - I think - Had to use Restore Point)_


USB 2.0 Host Controllers don't go into MSI usually, has something to do with 2.0 specs.
To get the SATA controller into MSI mode, you have to install an RST driver.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> USB 2.0 Host Controllers don't go into MSI usually, has something to do with 2.0 specs.
> To get the SATA controller into MSI mode, you have to install an RST driver.


I tried installing one of the RST drivers but I think I got the wrong one for my board, are there different types?

I found this thread showing the Microsoft vs Intel drivers for SATA (Intel edged out) and driver version v13.2.4.1000 was the best performing version.

http://www.win-raid.com/t362f23-Performance-of-the-Intel-RST-RSTe-AHCI-RAID-Drivers.html

I tried installing both the latest and version 13.2.4.1 from the link below:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25165/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Technology-Intel-RST-RAID-Driver

I also went to the following link to try for a different version or the same version on a different server:

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/30530-latest-overclocking-programs-system-info-benchmarking-stability-tools-post284763.html?s=94ec1cfd00b0daea2638cbfe556ecb00#post284763

and all of them gave the same error message; "system not supported."


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I tried installing one of the RST drivers but I think I got the wrong one for my board, are there different types?
> 
> and all of them gave the same error message; "system not supported."


You'll want to install only the F6 drivers via the Device Manager. Try v12.9.4.1000.


----------



## navjack27

for giggles, its before bed and i got adobe media encoder going full tilt, chrome open with like 8 tabs.

i have my mouse connected to my asmedia or whatever usb 3.1 port on my motherboard. i have hpet enabled. i've basically been going against what most recommend and have been getting improvements in every noticeable way.

like i said tho, for giggles in a worst case, cpu at 100% and all that



just a quick swipe up-right and back down-left of the mouse and i zoomed into the up-right portion of the graph. logitech g303 @ 800dpi with 1000hz & surface tuning.

in the morning i'll post when my computer is idle. its close to perfect.


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> for giggles, its before bed and i got adobe media encoder going full tilt, chrome open with like 8 tabs.
> 
> i have my mouse connected to my asmedia or whatever usb 3.1 port on my motherboard. i have hpet enabled. i've basically been going against what most recommend and have been getting improvements in every noticeable way.
> 
> like i said tho, for giggles in a worst case, cpu at 100% and all that
> 
> 
> 
> just a quick swipe up-right and back down-left of the mouse and i zoomed into the up-right portion of the graph. logitech g303 @ 800dpi with 1000hz & surface tuning.
> 
> in the morning i'll post when my computer is idle. its close to perfect.


Its make no sense xhci add a lot latency aspeclly on usb 3.0 or 3.1


----------



## navjack27

i don't know how a port can add latency. the only thing that will make it add latency is believing it adds latency.


yes i know, people say it adds a queue, but the same people who recommend that AMD users use flipqueue 0 said that, and all 0 does is make it use default, which is 3 for most games, and u said 3 had lowest latency....

all it does in most situations is add that big spike, which ISNT that big, at a regular interval. i only recently added HPET to my settings... i have ai suite and anti virus and msi afterburner hyper-v literally everything, but no cpu usage etc etc etc in the background too.


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodi300*
> 
> Its make no sense xhci add a lot latency aspeclly on usb 3.0 or 3.1


like 1ms?? HOW CAN WE LIVE WITH THAT?!

This whole thing is just a massive placebo.


----------



## dandy-

To be fair, a lot in this thread is theoretical, 1 or 2 changes that actually theoretically reduces latency might be imperceptable. But there arent just 1 or 2 things that are being suggested, its actually in the lines of 15 things that can reduce latency. At that point it can be percievable. If you add them up it makes an actual difference. Gameplay becomes more enjoyable when you know that you've optimized all you can. Its not entierly placebo, maybe the change is 0.00001% but you feel like its 1%.

Its about optimization to the fullest of potentials. 99.999999999%. We want that last 0.000000001%


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> for giggles, its before bed and i got adobe media encoder going full tilt, chrome open with like 8 tabs.
> 
> i have my mouse connected to my asmedia or whatever usb 3.1 port on my motherboard. i have hpet enabled. i've basically been going against what most recommend and have been getting improvements in every noticeable way.
> 
> like i said tho, for giggles in a worst case, cpu at 100% and all that
> 
> 
> 
> just a quick swipe up-right and back down-left of the mouse and i zoomed into the up-right portion of the graph. logitech g303 @ 800dpi with 1000hz & surface tuning.
> 
> in the morning i'll post when my computer is idle. its close to perfect.


you run it with msi mode?


----------



## navjack27




----------



## boykisser

Help

Code:



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:10:24  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        DESKTOP
OS version:                                           Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
Hardware:                                             ASRock, Z77 Extreme4
CPU:                                                  GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Logical processors:                                   8
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  16337 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   350 MHz
Measured CPU speed:                                   1 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   177.589597
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3.633459

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       176.126750
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       0.978176

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              18.047714
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0.001377
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0.001447

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   75680
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              137.302571
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0.057557
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0.152882

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   2455751
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count:                 explorer.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults                       1120
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          330
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs):          22944.513714
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%):              0.006343
Number of processes hit:                              15

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       9.125815
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                18.047714
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.071986
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      75464
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                131.571429
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   4.269238
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      2050144
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2.145811
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                5.270
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.000261
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      216
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                73.693143
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.019774
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      4009
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       3.666927
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                113.502286
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   1.269419
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      109988
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2.567224
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                110.016857
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.059055
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      7238
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2.886445
CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 4 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs):                107.857429
CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.382502
CPU 4 DPC count:                                      63046
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       3.294552
CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 5 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs):                137.302571
CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s):                   1.013620
CPU 5 DPC count:                                      80531
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 6 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2.902741
CPU 6 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 6 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 6 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 6 DPC highest execution time (µs):                108.850
CPU 6 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.504077
CPU 6 DPC count:                                      127606
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 7 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       2.376406
CPU 7 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 7 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 7 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 7 DPC highest execution time (µs):                110.933143
CPU 7 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.114193
CPU 7 DPC count:                                      13189
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*


Interesting you able run msi on ahci can ask if you install any driver ? If yes i was happy to know the driver my ssd is kingston v300 120gb 2x i dont raid them to 0 did you raid yours? If so the problem is on raid0? Or i need install some miracle driver? Hope to get answer from you thanks


----------



## navjack27

i'm never touching RAID with a 10 foot poll lol. nope no raid here. just two ssds until i replace my seagate 3tb drive. i'm literally scared of all spinning disk drives after that seagate


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> i'm never touching RAID with a 10 foot poll lol. nope no raid here. just two ssds until i replace my seagate 3tb drive. i'm literally scared of all spinning disk drives after that seagate


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> i'm never touching RAID with a 10 foot poll lol. nope no raid here. just two ssds until i replace my seagate 3tb drive. i'm literally scared of all spinning disk drives after that seagate


The raid not supposed to boost your performance? any reasons that you not raid them?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodi300*
> 
> Interesting you able run msi on ahci can ask if you install any driver ?


Windows 10 default driver runs in MSI mode.


----------



## boykisser

So I fixed the hard pagefaults issue by disabling windows search service and turning off indexing.

Latency Mon shows:

Code:



Code:


Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   108.250692
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3.724935

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       105.617567
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       0.943488

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              307.851429
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0.028826
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software Projects Sp.

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0.051521

But DPC Latency Checker shows 5-10 µs when the mouse cursor is still and 999-1000 µs when the mouse cursor is active. What gives? Which is latency monitor is more accurate?


----------



## PurpleChef

whats your though about 8.1 vs 10 ? i like 8.1 atm
10 better in any way?


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> whats your though about 8.1 vs 10 ? i like 8.1 atm
> 10 better in any way?


10 is better than 8 or 8.1 in every way.

8.1 is like Vista = Completely useless, never good for anything.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> 10 is better than 8 or 8.1 in every way.
> 
> 8.1 is like Vista = Completely useless, never good for anything.


every game and application ive tryed = same performance, 8.1 just feel more lightweight without all stupid apps and callback bs
when would one notice running 10? the performance seems the same


----------



## Stige

W7 > W8
W10 > W8

Pick your poison.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> W7 > W8
> W10 > W8
> 
> Pick your poison.


You haven't said why its better, i care about facts, not personal opinions without reason.


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> You haven't said why its better, i care about facts, not personal opinions without reason.


W10 will accomplish the dx12 so 1 0 to win10 if its the same performance ofcuarse


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> You haven't said why its better, i care about facts, not personal opinions without reason.


W7 doesn't have any of the garbage in W8.1 and W10 does DX12.

You don't have a DX12 card? W7 any day.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> W7 doesn't have any of the garbage in W8.1 and W10 does DX12.
> 
> You don't have a DX12 card? W7 any day.


What garbage in 8.1?

I do


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> What garbage in 8.1?
> 
> I do


The whole user interface to begin with? It offers no upgrades over W7 so why install crap like that? W7 is fine unless you want to use DX12, then you go W10. Easy really.
No reason ever to use 8.1 over 7.


----------



## PurpleChef

***c my life
when gaming


----------



## Stige

I think you are pretty much screwed, have fun gaming with over 1ms latency there


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> I think you are pretty much screwed, have fun gaming with over 1ms latency there


how is it possible. win10 god come and rescue me









*creating bootable usb device* 51%


----------



## dodi300

can someone help me with ataport high dpc?

i was try install drivers and set them to msi mode but its never working

this is my 5 min dpc running

its goes to 1.55528 dpc max was 64 DPC


----------



## dodi300

i amazed how much stable get on mouserecoder my usbport.sys allways get 0.3ms



my job is here done thanks for all you guys


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodi300*
> 
> i amazed how much stable get on mouserecoder my usbport.sys allways get 0.3ms
> 
> 
> 
> my job is here done thanks for all you guys


*** man, so stable and so clean. That seems impossible to me!!!


----------



## Curleyyy

What would happen if I were to disable all of the items in the red box?



Also, do any of these values need tweaking? I've used the MarkC Mouse Fix then applied 30ms MouseHoverTime.

I was wondering if MouseSensitivity should be on 0 or another value?


----------



## Curleyyy

Also found this?!?

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc757875(WS.10).aspx



Can we get any benefits from tweaking any values here?





After running a bunch of different tweaks this afternoon my Mouse Movement Recorder output is a lot more consistent.

Switching to 1000HZ now to test. (Haven't used 1kHZ since I got the mouse 3 years ago ahha let's see how stable it goes)


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodi300*
> 
> i amazed how much stable get on mouserecoder my usbport.sys allways get 0.3ms
> 
> 
> 
> my job is here done thanks for all you guys


I'm running out of things to tweak... *How did you get such stable 1000hz?*

*How did you measure your USB port being 0.3 ms and how do you make sure it stays at 0.3 and is 0.3 optimal?*

What were the things you changes that you saw get it most stable?

I just switched from 500 to 1000 and these are results.


----------



## x7007

How did he get such stable Hz ?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

*HERE IS A BIG MAGIC*

I think shared this page before, but tried for GPU. Now I did try for CMOS and everything changed. No mouse lag, freezing, stutter.... I'm on Windows 10 Pro 64bit and worked. If you did try everything but nothing worked, pls try this and share your experience. I did read in music forums, Nvidia drivers always have problem with sound cards, especially external firewire - USB cards. I can say it's true, because I did use before 6870 - 6950 - 6970 and 7970 (crossfire) and never had problem. When I jumped to Nvidia, problems started.

http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-vista-tips/manage-irq-settings-windows-vista-7/

I did create IRQpri. for CMOS - which shows 8 for me





Here is a video after this process, as you can see how I can control jet easily. Played 2K Ultra and recorded in 2K and there was no lag. Attack jet was the most unplayable vehicle in this game for me, and now it's so easy




And also that guy from that web page reported this;

_Some users have gotten good results prioritizing IRQ 8 (for the system
CMOS) and the IRQ corresponding to the video card but the feedback is unconfirmed:_


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I'm running out of things to tweak... *How did you get such stable 1000hz?*
> 
> *How did you measure your USB port being 0.3 ms and how do you make sure it stays at 0.3 and is 0.3 optimal?*
> 
> What were the things you changes that you saw get it most stable?
> 
> I just switched from 500 to 1000 and these are results.


Well i have motherboard that dont have ps2 and both my keyboard and mouse share the same irq the only option i was have to buy this usb ps2 http://m.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PS-2-to-USB-Soarers-Converter-Adapter-Remapping-Macros-NKRO-Support-/301365445104?nav=SEARCH and now my keyboard connectd to ps2 and mouse on irq23


----------



## Stige

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> *HERE IS A BIG MAGIC*
> 
> I think shared this page before, but tried for GPU. Now I did try for CMOS and everything changed. No mouse lag, freezing, stutter.... I'm on Windows 10 Pro 64bit and worked. If you did try everything but nothing worked, pls try this and share your experience. I did read in music forums, Nvidia drivers always have problem with sound cards, especially external firewire - USB cards. I can say it's true, because I did use before 6870 - 6950 - 6970 and 7970 (crossfire) and never had problem. When I jumped to Nvidia, problems started.
> 
> http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-vista-tips/manage-irq-settings-windows-vista-7/
> 
> I did create IRQpri. for CMOS - which shows 8 for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a video after this process, as you can see how I can control jet easily. Played 2K Ultra and recorded in 2K and there was no lag. Attack jet was the most unplayable vehicle in this game for me, and now it's so easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also that guy from that web page reported this;
> 
> _Some users have gotten good results prioritizing IRQ 8 (for the system
> CMOS) and the IRQ corresponding to the video card but the feedback is unconfirmed:_


http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-windows-speed-tips-that-don-t-work-686087/2


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-windows-speed-tips-that-don-t-work-686087/2


Can really say IRQ8 priority really did something ? Benchmark can't really show numbers sometimes, but Lag Input can be better and you can feel it. like mouse movement and such. so did it really help ? if you delete the IRQ8 , does it work same or worse ?


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

what are you to do? i have not stable poling rate


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodi300*
> 
> i amazed how much stable get on mouserecoder my usbport.sys allways get 0.3ms
> 
> 
> 
> my job is here done thanks for all you guys


----------



## softskiller

Did anyone ever compare onboard sound chip vs. video card sound chip - not just sound quality, but also dpc.

Just found out that I can totally disable the onboard Realtek ALC892 sound and just use the Nvidia digital audio output via display port, and the head phone jack of my benq XL2730Z.

So the digital to analog conversion happens at the monitor which also might have a more modern/advanced chip for this than my old asrock budget board?

Side effect: wouldn't have microphone. Might try sound via GPU and mic on realtek too.

EDIT: Not good, bass is missing via nvidia-benq.


----------



## Curleyyy

Awh sheit.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Awh sheit.


so it really works ?


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Awh sheit.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Awh sheit.


Nice


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Man alive guys.

Just, think.

I would love to know how you all are able to look at 1/40th of a second of USB polling data and be able to conclude that someone's USB polling is stable. Wow look at my results after cherry picking from just 3 attempts!



Basically nothing discussed on this last page or two will have any measurable effect on USB polling data. Especially because everyone is showing baseline USB polling. Try loading up CS:GO and getting some data, it won't look anything like this. You can't just pick a minute fraction of a second of data and say it's proof that a particular tweak has any real effect.

And people need to quit asking to be told how to get stable USB polling or low input lag. People who achieve these things have done so by doing a lot of research and testing things out for themselves, because things will vary for every system and whatever particulars a person is wanting to get out of their setup.

The purpose of this discussion should be to post tweaks and tricks that ideally have not been previously discussed or known about, and attempt to provide observable/measurable ways of testing their effectiveness. All this anecdotal BS is completely useless and is just making people waste their time by making changes they don't understand. GAH this thread is doing my head in


----------



## Curleyyy

1.) Unless I'm mistaken, we can't measure it like that and yes, we know. Placebo. Little to no effect. La la la.

2.) I'd say showing baseline USB polling is a much better way of having a controlled / somewhat properly benchmarked format. From the things I played around with last night, I actually noticed a difference in regards to min fps, microstutter and the likes, mind you I applied near over 50 tweaks of various calibers. _What I'm getting at is that it might be an easier way to get consistent results so you can see the differences._ The issue with loading up a game and testing is that the game can have varying loads which will skew the data.

3.) No. People don't need to stop asking. That's what forums are for. Yes, I know you're going to say "but search bar!" but tbh on all my time in forums I've seen more people telling others to use the search bar than I have people giving solid answers and even more than I've seen of those duplicated threads. _Good thing about asking a second time is that you can get someone elses input and receive different data that could be used, or new information about another topic._

Most of the time people are asking for an opinion from someone who's recently done whatever it might be. _Maybe they don't have 60 hours like us to sink into reading random blog posts at the back of the internet._ Maybe their research skills aren't as great and they have no idea where to start or what to search for. We've all been there.

_You're right though_. The purpose of this thread should be aimed solely at posting tweaks with a bit of information on what it does and how it works. Maybe what r0ach didn't anticipate for was an influx of comments and a multi year long lasting thread. Perhaps it's up to us to come up with a new format of posting, but then wouldn't it feel more like we're bug testing for a company rather than posting neat things we find for others to have a play with? Perhaps instead of writing paragraphs telling everyone of your frustrations, let's collaborate and figure out a way to measure and read data in a way that we can see a difference, if any.

Though that's harder done than said.

At the end of the day, just chill man. Just remember that not everything posted in this thread is to give us "teh ult1m473 pew pew h$" and to win every game. It's about edging out that extra 0.00001% of juice that's left. ^_^


----------



## Gonzalez07

so Curleyyy what did you change that made the biggest difference?


----------



## Curleyyy

For me, the biggest changes were within the "services.msc" tool. I used "SMART Utility v2.0" to give myself a preset of disabled services, using the "Advanced Tweaks" preset and then went on to disable any that were still left enabled that I wouldn't make use of.

Unfortunately I didn't bother to disable one by one to see what /actually/ made a difference other than DWMS.

- Desktop Window Manager Session / Windows Aero.
(After disabling this I went from fluctuations of 800 - 1200. With it disabled it had fluctuations of 20+-.)

- Also disabled Indexing and anything that logged data / sent data (crash dumps etc,.)
- Themes.
- Search.

Smart Utility download:
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/smart-a-utility-for-tweaking-windows-7-vista-xp-services

MS vs Intel AHCI: (Intel edges out in seek time and read/writes although I can't get RST to install.)
http://www.win-raid.com/t362f23-Performance-of-the-Intel-RST-RSTe-AHCI-RAID-Drivers.html

Home thread for drivers / tools and other software.
http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/30530-latest-overclocking-programs-system-info-benchmarking-stability-tools.html

Some extra reading I did last night:

echnet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee126127(WS.10).aspx
technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc757875(WS.10).aspx
gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/856398-disable-those-pesky-nvidia-audio-drivers.html
helpdeskgeek.com/windows-vista-tips/manage-irq-settings-windows-vista-7
bitsum.com/docs/pl/manual.pdf
forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1043281
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=227353834
sysnative.com/forums/windows-7-windows-vista-tutorials/5721-how-diagnose-fix-high-dpc-latency-issues-wpa-windows-vista-7-8-a.html


----------



## Gonzalez07

Thanks for sharing


----------



## softskiller

I want to try this Mouse Movement Recorder too.
Is there any designated download page for it?

Google shows The MarkC site first. Is it his tool and one has to download his fix?


----------



## Gonzalez07

It should be bundled with his mousefix


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 1.) Unless I'm mistaken, we can't measure it like that and yes, we know. Placebo. Little to no effect. La la la.
> 
> ...
> 
> 3.) No. People don't need to stop asking. That's what forums are for. Yes, I know you're going to say "but search bar!" but tbh on all my time in forums I've seen more people telling others to use the search bar than I have people giving solid answers and even more than I've seen of those duplicated threads. _Good thing about asking a second time is that you can get someone elses input and receive different data that could be used, or new information about another topic._
> 
> Most of the time people are asking for an opinion from someone who's recently done whatever it might be. _Maybe they don't have 60 hours like us to sink into reading random blog posts at the back of the internet._ Maybe their research skills aren't as great and they have no idea where to start or what to search for. We've all been there.
> 
> ...


That wasn't aimed at you or anyone specific for that matter, Curleyyy. My point is this thread has turned into 99% pollution and misleading or untrue information. Your last post was a good example of what I think this thread should be. Concise posts with specific recommendations backed up by reasoning and data. And good links for further reading.

I just think there's a lot of stuff that has been posted recently that is extremely misleading to people. Like showing a tiny snippet of USB polling data as some kind of proof of something. If you're going to post USB polling data to try and support or argue against specific tweaks, it needs to be from MouseTester plots of at least several seconds of input data. MouseMovementRecorder screen shots are basically worthless imo even though it can be useful to use when you can see the data scrolling by in real time.

And yes there are ways to measure input latency with a good amount of precision, but they are not ways that most of us will have the means or interest in setting up. But things like FPS, DPC latency, and USB polling are extremely easy to get data for. And notice I also said observable, because you can observe obvious changes in things like microstutter that you could even demonstrate by recording the monitor if you really wanted to provide hard proof. People saying things like 'much great improvement to latencies input and movement of the mice' is helpful to exactly no one.

I didn't mean people shouldn't ask for help or specific recommendations. But posts like "OMG awesome how do i get good dpc latency too?!?" is just taking up space. If people like us who have spent inordinate amounts of time optimizing our systems tried to go through everything we've done from A to Z, we'd be typing for the rest of our lives. People want the easy, lazy way out and it doesn't always exist. If you aren't willing to put in the effort and time to learn about things and experiment for yourself, then you aren't going to be able to achieve the same results.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I want to try this Mouse Movement Recorder too.
> Is there any designated download page for it?
> 
> Google shows The MarkC site first. Is it his tool and one has to download his fix?


http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Mouse-Rate-Checker.shtml


----------



## Curleyyy

Can I get pox or someone to get a reading of this?


----------



## Vantavia

Some motherboards and configurations will always have DPC latency issues, such as my MAXIMUS IV GENE-Z/GEN3 which had 300-700 dpc spikes. Use Snappy Driver Installer, it suggests optimal/newer drivers and is open source afaik. If you can't get it under control with optimal drivers, MSI mode and disabling C states, you never will.

My new build has 8us average latency with 34us "spikes" go figure.


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Can I get pox or someone to get a reading of this?


You have stable rate but the system unstable ? Make no sense this is mine when i run it 5 min









Yes i know problem of my atsport its the 1tb drive from Seagate i hate this company soon i will buy more ssd and raid them then my atsport latency will disappear


----------



## Bold Eagle

Great looking guide and had to sub for later review.


----------



## Curleyyy

del


----------



## pox02

Disable HPET For God Sake TSC Timmer allways be faster you will get the most stable on all Services


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Disable HPET For God Sake TSC Timmer allways be faster you will get the most stable on all Services


You should put your system info in signature

You on amd system?

Cant put my esi [email protected] in msi mode, sata controllers dosnt work. GPU and networkcard in msi mode auto!

Noticed that mouse movement recorder isnt showing the same hz as mouse checker. MMR shows ~700 for some time then it jumps to 950-1000+


----------



## Curleyyy

Yeah i've disabled hpet fully, virtualisation and ht.


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> You should put your system info in signature
> 
> You on amd system?
> 
> Cant put my esi [email protected] in msi mode, sata controllers dosnt work. GPU and networkcard in msi mode auto!
> 
> Noticed that mouse movement recorder isnt showing the same hz as mouse checker. MMR shows ~700 for some time then it jumps to 950-1000+


Done


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> Done


http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/6497137


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Here is an update ;

I did change firewire card port - Why I didn't change until now, because for booklet, this is a shared port. Also it's close to GPU - but there is no temp problem for now.



Booklet shows like this (green one is firewire card for now)



And played in multiplayer, no problem. Before I always tried PCIe 16_4 and PCIe 16_5

Looks sharing with USB Enhanced controller but didn't feel any problem





and DPC is really very low now, around 5-8ms (sometimes jump to 22-35)

I really want to understand what the real problem is (may be this is the solution) So I'll go back step by step. Forexample I'll enable xHCi etc. If problem starts again, I'll move mouse to 2.0 black port.

_I also deleted Priority Control which I did set before._

*Update 1*

xhci enabled and copied a large file - USB 3.0 front panel



and moved mouse and didn't feel any lag - freezing. My lag starts usually 3-5 min later - even on desktop. For now it's ok.

Leaved external HDD connected and joined game - 2K Ultra and no more mouse / keyboard lag.

I'll try to connect onboard USB 2.0 ports (air cooler and power supply USB connections)

*Update 2*

I did connect onboard USB 2.0 ports and runned Corsair Link. As you see it reads infos from system and AX860i / H100i from USB ports.



When Corsair Link was running under, I did join the game and was perfect. Also perfect on desktop. Both keyboard and mouse responses are great.

Now I'll test Intel Speed Step (Hyper-Threadind already enabled)

*Update 3*

Intel Speed Step enabled and choosed balanced mode from windows. Restarted windows and joined the game, was perfect. My mouse runs @ 500Hz



*Update 4*

I did check my SATA AHCI Controller driver and it was Standart by windows. Checked with Crystal Disk Benchmark and gave me 505 Mb read. Than updated with manual and choosed latest one from my computer. Looks I did try before and it was in windows.



than runned bench. again;



Than joined the game and did feel littlebit lag. May it be about Asmedia USB ports!? Than removed keyboard and plugged any backside intel USB 3.0 port. Tested and it was perfect.

Removed Asmedia Controller from device manager and did back to bios, disabled from bios too.

Now all af them connected to the same host and no problem



Looks like my problem was GPU / Sound card dealing more than USB port. I'll test 4-5 days and hope I'll not have these problems again.

I'll make this test more longer (may be 1-2 hours) but looks ok



I've to add: I also tested onboard sound card (removed Firewire card and uninstalled drivers) It was awfull. Sound quality was also terrible....

I also have another Firewire card which has Texas Instruments chipset. It's more recommended for sound / video productions. But I read it in www.gearslutz.com ; one guy wrote that ASUS recommends Rosewill Firewire card which has VIA chipset. I'll test the other one too, may be better or worse.

After these checked other benchs ; before firestrike score always changes. Sometimes 17200, sometimes 17800 etc Tested 3 times now and always over 18000





http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/11739821



http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11191342

_Important note : I'm on 1901 bios - other versions will be tested also._


----------



## emka

Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? My sensei raw is set at 500hz, why is it doing this, I think i tried everything

GA z97x-gaming 3 / Windows 7 x64

No matter what I set 500hz or 1000hz its never stable, pls halp

My steam ID http://steamcommunity.com/id/emka if someone thinks can lend a hand to try something else.

LE: same with Mionix Avior 7K, Logitech G303, Rival


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emka*
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? My sensei raw is set at 500hz, why is it doing this, I think i tried everything
> 
> GA z97x-gaming 3 / Windows 7 x64
> 
> No matter what I set 500hz or 1000hz its never stable, pls halp
> 
> My steam ID http://steamcommunity.com/id/emka if someone thinks can lend a hand to try something else.
> 
> LE: same with Mionix Avior 7K, Logitech G303, Rival


It depends on the speed you're moving it and what not, it's probably fine man.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emka*
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? My sensei raw is set at 500hz, why is it doing this, I think i tried everything
> 
> GA z97x-gaming 3 / Windows 7 x64
> 
> No matter what I set 500hz or 1000hz its never stable, pls halp
> 
> My steam ID http://steamcommunity.com/id/emka if someone thinks can lend a hand to try something else.
> 
> LE: same with Mionix Avior 7K, Logitech G303, Rival


I have the same problems, on p67 pro3 2500k
all mice ec1a, IE 3.0, 1.1a and torq x5
all c state disable


----------



## emka

But I mean, the spikes, if its set to 500hz why does it spike to 1000, shouldn't it be capped at 500 ? I remember having on my old pc 499 constant when moving the mouse around.


----------



## dodi300

now my system stable no ataport anymore guysss yayyy + i was able msi mode drive

this is running 5 min






i was raid0 my two ssd kingston and beem ataport.sys dpc disappear no more ahci


----------



## Curleyyy

did you install intel rst and your ataport.sys disappeared?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> You'll want to install only the F6 drivers via the Device Manager. Try v12.9.4.1000.



Do I uninstall the Microsoft AHCI driver before installing the Intel RST F6?
- Update: Wouldn't let me install.
- Uninstall: Didn't want to risk anything (haven't got sys restore enabled)

EDIT: 1
My findings:

>Mobo: Maximus V Gene / Windows 7 HP 64.
>Intel Download Center
>Intel RST
>Download "SetupRST.exe" files.

"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v14.8.0.1042 - "This platform is not supported."
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v14.0.0.1143 - "This platform is not supported."
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v13.6.0.1002 - "The following application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5" *(I have 4.6.1 installed.)*
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v13.2.4.1000 - "The following application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5" *(I have 4.6.1 installed.)*
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v13.1.0.1058 - "The following application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5" *(I have 4.6.1 installed.)*
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.9.0.1001 - "Installs fine."
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.8.0.1016 - "Installs fine."
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.5.0.1066 - "Installs fine."
"SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.0.0.1083 - "Installs fine."
"iata_enu.exe" - Intel RST - v11.7.0.1013 - "Installs fine."

EDIT: 2
*How do I know which series my board is?*
• Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
• Intel(R) 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
• Intel(R) 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
• Intel(R) 5 Series/3400 Series SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
• Intel(R) X79 Express Chipset
EDIT: 2.5 - Do by checking Device Manager > View > Resources by Type > Scroll down to your chipset.

EDIT: 3 'Intel RST v12.9.0.1001' Successfully installed.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 
> Do I uninstall the Microsoft AHCI driver before installing the Intel RST F6?
> - Update: Wouldn't let me install.
> - Uninstall: Didn't want to risk anything (haven't got sys restore enabled)
> 
> EDIT: 1
> My findings:
> 
> >Mobo: Maximus V Gene / Windows 7 HP 64.
> >Intel Download Center
> >Intel RST
> >Download "SetupRST.exe" files.
> 
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v14.8.0.1042 - "This platform is not supported."
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v14.0.0.1143 - "This platform is not supported."
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v13.6.0.1002 - "The following application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5" *(I have 4.6.1 installed.)*
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v13.2.4.1000 - "The following application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5" *(I have 4.6.1 installed.)*
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v13.1.0.1058 - "The following application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5" *(I have 4.6.1 installed.)*
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.9.0.1001 - "Installs fine."
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.8.0.1016 - "Installs fine."
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.5.0.1066 - "Installs fine."
> "SetupRST.exe" - Intel RST - v12.0.0.1083 - "Installs fine."
> "iata_enu.exe" - Intel RST - v11.7.0.1013 - "Installs fine."
> 
> EDIT: 2
> *How do I know which series my board is?*
> Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology Release is designed to provide
> functionality for the following Storage Controllers:
> • Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
> • Intel(R) 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
> • Intel(R) 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
> • Intel(R) 5 Series/3400 Series SATA AHCI/RAID Controller
> • Intel(R) X79 Express Chipset
> 
> EDIT: 3 'Intel RST v12.9.0.1001' Successfully installed.


Installing it sets it to MSI mode, not sure if that's your overall goal here. On Win-raid.com forums that guy did numerous tests to show best version for each chipset.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Installing it sets it to MSI mode


Yeah I see that! Awesome


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Yeah I see that! Awesome


I installed v13.2.4.1000 through Device Manager, gave best SSD Benchmarks, but for each chipset I think there's a different version that works best.


----------



## PurpleChef

Ok, wanted to try native win 10 ahci driver vs 64bit Win8-10 AMD AHCI Driver v1.3.1.276 WHQL.rar
I just started csgo and closed it down insta

(saberooth 990fx r2 + sandisk SDSSDX120GG25)

Win 10 standard ahci driver (2006)


64bit Win8-10 AMD AHCI Driver v1.3.1.276 WHQL.rar


Amd driver better?

Can the ahci driver affect other stuff? what driver you use, and why?

Driver from this thread:
http://www.win-raid.com/t29f25-Recommended-AHCI-RAID-and-NVMe-Drivers.html

Edit: 1.3.1 Run #2


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> did you install intel rst and your ataport.sys disappeared?


yes

can someone help me please this is 2 test i did with 800 dpi usb2 and usb3 what is beeter ?

 USB 2
 usb 3


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I installed v13.2.4.1000 through Device Manager, gave best SSD Benchmarks, but for each chipset I think there's a different version that works best.


Is there any difference in installing via Device Manager? The SetupRST.exe works fine for me but only up to a certain version.

Are there different versions of the driver (v12 / v13 / v14 etc,.) that relate to actual Chipset versions? (Intel 7, 8, 9 series, etc,.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Driver from this thread:
> http://www.win-raid.com/t29f25-Recommended-AHCI-RAID-and-NVMe-Drivers.html


Only difference in modded drivers are the INF files? (Says that Intel didn't put all the hardware ID's in)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Is there any difference in installing via Device Manager? The SetupRST.exe works fine for me but only up to a certain version.
> 
> Are there different versions of the driver (v12 / v13 / v14 etc,.) that relate to actual Chipset versions? (Intel 7, 8, 9 series, etc,.)
> Only difference in modded drivers are the INF files? (Says that Intel didn't put all the hardware ID's in)


I'm not quite sure if they numerically correlate, I'll try to find the Win-Raid.com forum post for you.

The difference is, through Device Manager you don't install the actual Driver Software. It gave me no new functions, and I think it's recommended to just install through Device Manager. What motherboard do you have?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I'm not quite sure if they numerically correlate, I'll try to find the Win-Raid.com forum post for you.
> 
> The difference is, through Device Manager you don't install the actual Driver Software. It gave me no new functions, and I think it's recommended to just install through Device Manager. What motherboard do you have?


Further reading shows that the only difference is that each newer driver version holds different package contents for different hardware.

So installing through Device Manager is cleaner?

Motherboard is _Maximus V Gene._

I wanted to test which driver version provided better results however before installing each version and testing I wanted to make sure that I could accurately benchmark. *It seems as if there's too large of a variation in results between benchmarks even though these were ran directly after each other* to compare to different driver versions. I'm not sure if my system is somewhat unstable providing inaccurate results or if the guy who did the original benchmark didn't account for the variation.

I run every benchmark program in groups of three.
Usually it's: _Reboot > Warmup bench > 3 Real benches > Calc Mean Avg._

*First Screenshot:* When I downloaded the application and ran it without rebooting to have a clean benchmark (Had apps running etc,.)


*Second screenshot:* After rebooting and letting the system sit idle for a few minutes.


*Third Screenshot:* After rebooting, letting the system sit idle and after closing any unnecessary apps.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> did you install intel rst and your ataport.sys disappeared?


Yes this is what happens, when you install RST, ataport.sys disappears and then when you do dpc latency tests *storport.sys* takes over.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Further reading shows that the only difference is that each newer driver version holds different package contents for different hardware.
> 
> So installing through Device Manager is cleaner?
> 
> Motherboard is _Maximus V Gene._
> 
> I wanted to test which driver version provided better results however before installing each version and testing I wanted to make sure that I could accurately benchmark. *It seems as if there's too large of a variation in results between benchmarks even though these were ran directly after each other* to compare to different driver versions. I'm not sure if my system is somewhat unstable providing inaccurate results or if the guy who did the original benchmark didn't account for the variation.
> 
> I run every benchmark program in groups of three.
> Usually it's: _Reboot > Warmup bench > 3 Real benches > Calc Mean Avg._
> 
> *First Screenshot:* When I downloaded the application and ran it without rebooting to have a clean benchmark (Had apps running etc,.)
> 
> 
> *Second screenshot:* After rebooting and letting the system sit idle for a few minutes.
> 
> 
> *Third Screenshot:* After rebooting, letting the system sit idle and after closing any unnecessary apps.


The images are too small. Did you do any tests prior to installing Intel SATA AHCI Driver? A few people on here said their system ran much better after installing the driver, I assume they're on Windows 7, like myself, since Windows 7 doesn't install an Intel RST driver.

Here's the Win-Raid.com thread, it states that Intel RST v13.1.0.1058 is the best for your Z77 board.


----------



## PurpleChef

Its 2k16, get win 10


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Its 2k16, get win 10


is not an argument.


----------



## Curleyyy




----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*


Which Intel RST Driver version is that? Also, how many did you test? I normally would TRIM my SSD, than reboot, and run Anvil SSD Benchmark, and reboot after 1-3 tests. That program is my favorite to use as well.


----------



## Curleyyy

How do you Trim the SSD?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> How do you Trim the SSD?


Think Disk Defragmenter has a built-in command for TRIM-enabled drivers upon defrag. Also, the SSD utilities provided by the manufacturer may have a dedicated Trim command as well.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> How do you Trim the SSD?


What SSD do you have? I think you can actually do it through Anvil SSD Benchmark, under the 'Benchmarks' tab top left.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> is not an argument.


Its obviously better in any way, i dont need to argue about it. crystal clear


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

Someone help me plz, win10 i have p67 chipset 2500k and intel(R) 6 Series/ C200 Chipset Family
SSD - Crucial M4
AHCI - microsoft 2006 driver
what Intel RST version i should to instal to my chipset?
Thanks


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IAMSTERDAM*
> 
> Someone help me plz, win10 i have p67 chipset 2500k and intel(R) *6 Series/ C200* Chipset Family SSD - Crucial M4 AHCI - microsoft 2006 driver what Intel RST version i should to instal to my chipset? Thanks


*6 Series =*
Intel RST(e) drivers *v12.9.4.1000*
Best matching *Intel RAID ROM* resp. EFI "RaidDriver" *BIOS modules: v12.9.0.2006*

EDIT: 1 - _CAUTION:_ If you have an ASUS motherboard you can update the BIOS modules using a neat tool:
(I'm unsure how to do it for other boards.)

Download Tool > Download latest BIOS > Put BIOS into tool's folder > Update modules > Rename > Put BIOS file on USB > flash

Guide:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?42298-Asus-Maximus-V-Gene-Bios-v1903-Updated-Modules

Tool:
http://www.win-raid.com/t154f16-Tool-Guide-News-quot-UEFI-BIOS-Updater-quot-UBU.html




@32Bit
https://mega.co.nz/#!1Mti3ayJ!nnlxmThQBq6f5sw-mPPYW80ydujf4rHy4yHhsYXxWBY

@64Bit
https://mega.nz/#!ZUdmDYZQ!t_2U_z3SFVguHELa1cdV4Xgpj5SNhtDzXl5EVMFPHqY

Which drivers are best:
http://www.win-raid.com/t25f23-Which-are-the-quot-best-quot-Intel-AHCI-RAID-drivers.html

Comparison:
http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html

Modded drivers:
http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html

Your chipset information:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/6-chipset-c200-chipset-datasheet.html

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What SSD do you have? I think you can actually do it through Anvil SSD Benchmark, under the 'Benchmarks' tab top left.


840 Evo.

v13.1.0.1058 - *Before Trim*


v13.1.0.1058 - *After Trim*


RSTe
http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html


----------



## Curleyyy

I browsed over this plethora of information and couldn't really make sense of it all. I'll read over it at a later time.

http://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html


----------



## rivage

Current best (as in STABLE dpc latency wise) Nvidia drivers? still 344.11, 347.09 (beta) and 350.12 ?


----------



## PurpleChef

Good AV/Spyware prog that dosnt affect system?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I browsed over this plethora of information and couldn't really make sense of it all. I'll read over it at a later time.
> 
> http://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html


You don't have Samsung Magician installed?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Current best (as in STABLE dpc latency wise) Nvidia drivers? still 344.11, 347.09 (beta) and 350.12 ?


I believe so, 344.11 still results in best performance benchmark wise in CS:GO for me as well, but I never compared DPC Latency between drivers.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> You don't have Samsung Magician installed?


I did, why?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys at the end of the story, I did change my motherboard.

I did buy MSI x99a Gaming 7, fantastic board. I did install Windows 10 Pro 64bit, didn't touch anything. Didn't change anything (I mean the first page)

I did search before buying this, it has own mouse / keyboard ports and also PS2. I did plug keyboard and mouse to USB 2.0 ports. Didn't test PS2 yet, but I think I don't need it.

Installed windows, Installed Ethernet driver (used INF file from website) than installed chipset - I did find intel_chipset_10.1.2.19 from http://www.station-drivers.com

installed nvidia driver and sound card (firewire)

That's it. Hyperthreading enabled, Intel Speed Step enabled and balanced mode from windows. Result, fantastic. Just Onboard audio and Nvidia Audio disabled.

plugged to theseports - All usb things enabled in bios. On board USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports in use. Corsair H100i and PSU connected.



What I learned; don't buy Asus, espacially which has everything... My previous card was also Asus and also Deluxe (p8z68) The same problems.

_It's new and didn't test everything. Still installing applications. I'll try latnecy moon later._

And noticed, this has HPET option in bios and default enabled. I can say I can feel the difference even in bios. Mouse moves so smooth. Also on desktop.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X99A-GAMING-7.html#hero-overview

Check this; looks some irq's the same but no problem


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Guys at the end of the story, I did change my motherboard.
> 
> I did buy MSI x99a Gaming 7, fantastic board. I did install Windows 10 Pro 64bit, didn't touch anything. Didn't change anything (I mean the first page)
> 
> I did search before buying this, it has own mouse / keyboard ports and also PS2. I did plug keyboard and mouse to USB 2.0 ports. Didn't test PS2 yet, but I think I don't need it.
> 
> Installed windows, Installed Ethernet driver (used INF file from website) than installed chipset - I did find intel_chipset_10.1.2.19 from http://www.station-drivers.com
> 
> installed nvidia driver and sound card (firewire)
> 
> That's it. Hyperthreading enabled, Intel Speed Step enabled and balanced mode from windows. Result, fantastic. Just Onboard audio and Nvidia Audio disabled.
> 
> plugged to theseports - All usb things enabled in bios. On board USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports in use. Corsair H100i and PSU connected.
> 
> 
> 
> What I learned; don't buy Asus, espacially which has everything... My previous card was also Asus and also Deluxe (p8z68) The same problems.
> 
> _It's new and didn't test everything. Still installing applications. I'll try latnecy moon later._
> 
> And noticed, this has HPET option in bios and default enabled. I can say I can feel the difference even in bios. Mouse moves so smooth. Also on desktop.
> 
> https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X99A-GAMING-7.html#hero-overview
> 
> Check this; looks some irq's the same but no problem


interesting so GAMING DEVICE PORT give benefits after all the question what msi do with those ports


----------



## Curleyyy

OCN user receiving an increase with new drivers, gonna give it ago now.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1597503/got-a-10-increase-with-the-new-irst-driver-v14-10-0-1016

I've got a few questions:

1.) In my BIOS there's an option to enable Intel RST
*- Should that be enabled / disabled?*

2.) There seems to be multiple types of drivers: *(not really a question but wondering if there's others?)*

Microsoft Standard Drivers:

Setup & F6: (_With / Without software package_)
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25165/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Technology-Intel-RST-RAID-Driver

Intel RST(e): (_Supported / Updated Intel drivers_)
http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html

Modded: (_Updated hardware ID's, signed, etc,._)
http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html

NUC's:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25910/RAID-Intel-Rapid-Storage-Technology-for-Intel-NUC

3.) In Anvil Benchmark when I go to: "_Benchmarks > Trigger "TRIM" > Yes_" it shows the following.
*Does this mean it worked?*



4.) I have 1x SSD and 1x HDD connected to my internal Sata ports.
If I were to remove the HDD, would there be any benefits / gains to the SSD?


----------



## kurtextrem

According to AV-Test, Avira doesn't eat as much resources as others do. I can confirm that from a RAM and file access point (previously 360 Total Security, similar result). Both are free.


----------



## Curleyyy

Anvil's SSD Benchmark

*Benchmark Process:*
_- Install Driver
- Reboot
- Trim
- Reboot
- Benchmark 4 Passes
- Post 4th Run
- Uninstall Driver
- Reboot_

*Standard MS Drivers*: v6.1.7601.18231
MSI Mode: Unsupported


*Intel RST Drivers*: F6 - v13.1.0158 (Recommended for 7 series)
MSI Mode: Supported (-3)
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24006/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Technology-Intel-RST-RAID-Driver


*Intel RST(e) Drivers*: F6 - v13.1.0158 (Recommended for 7 series)
MSI Mode: Supported (-3)
http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html


*Intel RST(e) Modded Drivers*: F6 - v13.2.4.1000 (Alternative)
MSI Mode: Supported (-3)
http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Anvil's SSD Benchmark
> 
> *Benchmark Process:*
> _- Install Driver
> - Reboot
> - Trim
> - Reboot
> - Benchmark 4 Passes
> - Post 4th Run
> - Uninstall Driver
> - Reboot_
> 
> *Standard MS Drivers*: v6.1.7601.18231
> MSI Mode: Unsupported
> 
> 
> *Intel RST Drivers*: F6 - v13.1.0158 (Recommended for 7 series)
> MSI Mode: Supported (-3)
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24006/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Technology-Intel-RST-RAID-Driver
> 
> 
> *Intel RST(e) Drivers*: F6 - v13.1.0158 (Recommended for 7 series)
> MSI Mode: Supported (-3)
> http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST-RSTe-Drivers-newest-v-WHQL-v-WHQL.html
> 
> 
> *Intel RST(e) Modded Drivers*: F6 - v13.2.4.1000 (Alternative)
> MSI Mode: Supported (-3)
> http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html


Samsung Magician has a TRIM function built in. I forget who it was exactly, but I helped them with installing Intel SATA drivers and they said their system ran much smoother, in video games too. Have you noticed any differences so far?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Samsung Magician has a TRIM function built in. I forget who it was exactly, but I helped them with installing Intel SATA drivers and they said their system ran much smoother, in video games too. Have you noticed any differences so far?


Oh right, yeah. I was using Samsung Magician for a little bit, but after applying "Advanced" tweaks on "Smart Utility" (basically disabling a bunch of Windows services) the benchmark part of the program stopped working, as in when I ran the test it'd just keep loading and wouldn't initiate correctly, so I uninstalled it as I didn't really have a use for it. Most of if not all of the options in the app can be done manually, from what I saw.

In regards to performance: I can't really say I've noticed a difference. Since XP my computers have always been very smooth, and run optimally most of the time. Although, I have to say in the last 2 - 3 months (the time period that I've been going to deeper levels of tweaking) I'm landing a heck load more shots in CS:GO. More bullets feel like they go where they should and I'm getting an insane amount of noscopes compared to a few months ago.

While that could all be placebo or the game itself having changes made, my minimum FPS has (wow I'm having mad amounts of Deja Vu right about now, perhaps I was the one who you helped) my minimum FPS has stabilized a lot more. I couldn't say which tweaks helped min fps but in Dirt Rally it's gone from a min of 45 to a min of 60+ and in CS:GO it sits at 299 fps more than it once did (used to fluctuate between 180 - 299.)

Here's an SSD bench from before-all-the-tweaks to now.

*Before:* _(I'm not sure how many tweaks I had made at this point but this is with Microsoft Drivers)_
Also, I dunno why but the 'write' section of the benchmark has some serious issues compared to my more recent test of the same driver.


*Current:* _(Tweaks include pretty much everything in this thread)_


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Oh right, yeah. I was using Samsung Magician for a little bit, but after applying "Advanced" tweaks on "Smart Utility" (basically disabling a bunch of Windows services) the benchmark part of the program stopped working, as in when I ran the test it'd just keep loading and wouldn't initiate correctly, so I uninstalled it as I didn't really have a use for it. Most of if not all of the options in the app can be done manually, from what I saw.
> 
> In regards to performance: I can't really say I've noticed a difference. Since XP my computers have always been very smooth, and run optimally most of the time. Although, I have to say in the last 2 - 3 months (the time period that I've been going to deeper levels of tweaking) I'm landing a heck load more shots in CS:GO. More bullets feel like they go where they should and I'm getting an insane amount of noscopes compared to a few months ago.
> 
> While that could all be placebo or the game itself having changes made, my minimum FPS has (wow I'm having mad amounts of Deja Vu right about now, perhaps I was the one who you helped) my minimum FPS has stabilized a lot more. I couldn't say which tweaks helped min fps but in Dirt Rally it's gone from a min of 45 to a min of 60+ and in CS:GO it sits at 299 fps more than it once did (used to fluctuate between 180 - 299.)
> 
> Here's an SSD bench from before-all-the-tweaks to now.
> 
> *Before:* _(I'm not sure how many tweaks I had made at this point but this is with Microsoft Drivers)_
> Also, I dunno why but the 'write' section of the benchmark has some serious issues compared to my more recent test of the same driver.
> 
> 
> *Current:* _(Tweaks include pretty much everything in this thread)_


Those are some pretty good results. I think my Samsung 840 EVO scores ~4,600, with Intel RST Driver v13.2.4.1000. I wonder what Windows Service would have an affect on Samsung Magician..

I don't think it was worth doing every single tweak listed here. I disable some useless crap in Programs & Features (eg: Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, etc.), some Windows Services, set Power Mode to Max Performance in Windows, and of course in NVIDIA, and that's about it. Besides the normal stuff in BIOS, like Disable Intel Speed Stepping, Intel xHCI Controller, set DRAM Frequency & Timings, and CPU Core Ratio => Sync All Cores. I think a lot of stuff in this thread isn't really going to impact anything, until I see evidence of it improving latency, since I couldn't prove it myself, I won't try fixing something that isn't broken


----------



## rivage

Alright guys, I just moved to Windows 10 and does W10 actually need Intel USB 3.0 Drivers? it seems like it doesn't show any exclamation marks on device manager, I'm confused. I think I remember reading that W10 was providing them, I might be wrong though. Anyone can enlighten me?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Those are some pretty good results. I think my Samsung 840 EVO scores ~4,600, with Intel RST Driver v13.2.4.1000. I wonder what Windows Service would have an affect on Samsung Magician..
> 
> I don't think it was worth doing every single tweak listed here. I disable some useless crap in Programs & Features (eg: Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, etc.), some Windows Services, set Power Mode to Max Performance in Windows, and of course in NVIDIA, and that's about it. Besides the normal stuff in BIOS, like Disable Intel Speed Stepping, Intel xHCI Controller, set DRAM Frequency & Timings, and CPU Core Ratio => Sync All Cores. I think a lot of stuff in this thread isn't really going to impact anything, until I see evidence of it improving latency, since I couldn't prove it myself, I won't try fixing something that isn't broken


Slightly higher score with the same driver and SSD, I'm jealous haha.

Yeah, not all tweaks here are useful to the majority, but it was fun nonetheless.
I went further and beyond into other threads, Steam, OCN, etc,.
Tbh I'm finding it hard to find more things to change...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Slightly higher score with the same driver and SSD, I'm jealous haha.
> 
> Yeah, not all tweaks here are useful to the majority, but it was fun nonetheless.
> I went further and beyond into other threads, Steam, OCN, etc,.
> Tbh I'm finding it hard to find more things to change...


Is yours plugged in a native SATA 6 port on your motherboard? The only difference really is your Asus Z77 vs. my Asus Z97-AR.


----------



## Curleyyy

Yeah, plugged into the native ports. I've got a slow asf HDD plugged in too, later I'll see if unplugging that has a performance increase.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Alright guys, I just moved to Windows 10 and does W10 actually need Intel USB 3.0 Drivers? it seems like it doesn't show any exclamation marks on device manager, I'm confused. I think I remember reading that W10 was providing them, I might be wrong though. Anyone can enlighten me?


Click Windows Update and do the update, if you don't get the driver, download it from:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/21129/USB-3-0-Driver-Intel-USB-3-0-eXtensible-Host-Controller-Driver-for-Intel-7-Series-C216-Chipset-Family

or

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/22824/USB-3-0-Driver-Intel-USB-3-0-eXtensible-Host-Controller-Driver-for-Intel-8-9-100-Series-and-C220-C610-Chipset-Family?product=65855

However, it's recommended to disable USB 3.0 entirely, especially if you don't use it.


----------



## Curleyyy

Thought I'd upload a picture of my tweaks and stuff.


----------



## Fluxify

How do you guys feel about these tweaks my friend sent me?

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/tweak_me_7b48.html

http://www.filedropper.com/mysets


----------



## r0ach

Probably done posting here. Explanation:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1455145.0


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Click Windows Update and do the update, if you don't get the driver, download it from:
> 
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/21129/USB-3-0-Driver-Intel-USB-3-0-eXtensible-Host-Controller-Driver-for-Intel-7-Series-C216-Chipset-Family
> 
> or
> 
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/22824/USB-3-0-Driver-Intel-USB-3-0-eXtensible-Host-Controller-Driver-for-Intel-8-9-100-Series-and-C220-C610-Chipset-Family?product=65855
> 
> However, it's recommended to disable USB 3.0 entirely, especially if you don't use it.


Alright looks my usb 3.0 drivers on W10 were already installed 

Is it better (as in latency wise) to disable usb 3.0 on Windows 10? I mean I just play CS:GO and LoL so i probably don't need USB 3.0 tbh.


----------



## dodi300

my dream accomplish









http://www.amazon.com/MonsterHigh-Speed-DisplayPort-Monitor-Cable/dp/B003B3N27G

i return to my gtx 970 and use displayport high speed and the movement feels amazing again

i was able change scaling on monitor + i was able use no display scaling + black bars Yay


----------



## Curleyyy

Okay, so I've figured out how to do Intel ME.

1.) Go here to get the latest updated version for all boards:
_- http://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html_



2.) Ensure that if you're on Windows 7 that you have KMDF-1.11 installed.
_- https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2685811_

3.) I found a tool called Intel ME 8.1 Updating tool.
_- https://www.sendspace.com/file/ec52pb_

3.a) Shift + Right Click in the extracted folder.


3.b) Type in "*FWUpdLcl -fwver*" to check your current version.

3.c) Paste your updated firmware version inside the Intel ME 8.1 Updating Tool folder.
3.d) Rename it to "_*ME.bin*_"
3.e) Go back to the CMD and type "_*FWUpdLcl -f ME.BIN*_" to flash that version.

4.) Once flashed, reboot PC.
4.a) Check version through CMD again for verification.



Code:



Code:


a. Open a Command Prompt window as administrator
b. Type FWUpdLcl -fwver to check your current ME Firmware version on the system
c. Type FWUpdLcl -f ME.BIN to upgrade/downgrade your ME Firmware to the desired version.

*I have one question:* Does the driver need to be updated here as displayed in Device Manager?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> *I have one question:* Does the driver need to be updated here as displayed in Device Manager?


You can, if you want to. It does not need to correspond to your F/W version.
Either install the latest version from win-raid or an older one. There's barely a reason to believe there are actual performance differences between driver versions.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys, did anyone read something about speakers magnetic fields? Can it affect GPU, CPU, Ram or motherboard it self? I know magnetic fields bad for old mechanical disks. My big speaker really close to case. I'm just testing.


----------



## Curleyyy

Rerun Windows System Assessment Tool (WinSAT) after updating drivers, changing hardwares or overclocking:



*WinSAT should be run at two different stages to ensure optimization:*
1.) When you first install a new Operating System.
2.) After you've tweaked / configured / overclocked your system.

1.) Open and run CMD as Admin:
2.) Type: "_*winsat formal -restart clean*_"
3.) Let the process do it's thing.
4.) Gather results and compare.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by TwL:
> This is standard Windows Performance test with cleanup previous editions (== NOT the same as you would run regular WinSAT/Performance Testing) > in terms you are telling your windows 'I got better performing driver now' without this no drivers will perform correctly. This function is also capable of disabling your entire CrossfireX systems and is also the one thing which has huge affect to drivers, if not completed & it will automatically degrade all hardware unless passed clean through.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Guys, did anyone read something about speakers magnetic fields? Can it affect GPU, CPU, Ram or motherboard it self? I know magnetic fields bad for old mechanical disks. My big speaker really close to case. I'm just testing.


*Consider the following:* Motherboards, in this case, have circuits of electrical currents. Yes, they can be affected, however. Technology has come a long way and has improved a great deal in the last few decades; not only has the design been improved but so has the magnetic sheilding and sheilding of other interferences.

*Q:* _Will your speakers make your GPU artifact?_
*A:* _I cannot answer that._


----------



## Curleyyy

Formatted my PC last night.

Intel: Chipset + Lan + SATA + ME
All tweaks from thread + more.

Slight increase in scores / system feels A LOT more fluid.

Mouse movement on the desktop (before=felt like swiping my mouse on cloth // after=felt like swiping on glass)

- before tweaks


- after tweaks


- after format


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Formatted my PC last night.
> 
> Intel: Chipset + Lan + SATA + ME
> All tweaks from thread + more.
> 
> Slight increase in scores / system feels A LOT more fluid.
> 
> Mouse movement on the desktop (before=felt like swiping my mouse on cloth // after=felt like swiping on glass)
> 
> - before tweaks
> 
> 
> - after tweaks
> 
> 
> - after format


Did you install Platform Update for Windows 7? Worst update to install according to tons of people. Main thing with Windows 7 is avoiding all the crappy updates, and running Windows Index Experience Score (WinSAT), seems to impact performance somehow too, but only on Windows 7.


----------



## x7007

So do we need the ME drivers ? cause as I read it just a bunch of not useful things for us, as the services that running goes.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> So do we need the ME drivers ? cause as I read it just a bunch of not useful things for us, as the services that running goes.


Probably can't hurt, but no real performance gain/loss from it. From what I've read, Intel Management Engine is normally used by people in IT.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Did you install Platform Update for Windows 7? Worst update to install according to tons of people. Main thing with Windows 7 is avoiding all the crappy updates, and running Windows Index Experience Score (WinSAT), seems to impact performance somehow too, but only on Windows 7.


Ah, wasn't even aware about the Platform Update. I'll read into that a little more than possibly uninstall and see what the changes are. It lists as Optional in the install history. You're also meant to run the full WinSAT too, not just the one in the Control Panel. From what I read "winsat formal -restart clean" is the proper way.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Probably can't hurt, but no real performance gain/loss from it. From what I've read, Intel Management Engine is normally used by people in IT.


Firmware is important as it gives the communication between things.
Drivers, not so much. Think of Intel RST. It essentially gives you an application to communicate with the firmware.
The drivers are used, like agsz mentioned, by IT people. Servers / Networks of PC's.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Ah, wasn't even aware about the Platform Update. I'll read into that a little more than possibly uninstall and see what the changes are. It lists as Optional in the install history. You're also meant to run the full WinSAT too, not just the one in the Control Panel. From what I read "winsat formal -restart clean" is the proper way.
> Firmware is important as it gives the communication between things.
> Drivers, not so much. Think of Intel RST. It essentially gives you an application to communicate with the firmware.
> The drivers are used, like agsz mentioned, by IT people. Servers / Networks of PC's.


@VolsAndJezuz gave me a list of updates to do, I'm not sure if he's updated it lately since it's from September/October 2015, but it skips all the updates that aren't necessary and have been known to cause issues with stability/performance.

Did you have any issues with Windows Updates taking forever to search for updates & causing 90-99% CPU Usage? Last time I formatted in January I think, I had to manually install a few updates to fix the Windows Update Client.

Also, can you see if KB3064209 is installed, or even an option for you? It's an update for Intel CPU Microcode Update, and when I last formatted it didn't appear under *Important* or *Optional Updates*, which I found odd.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> @VolsAndJezuz gave me a list of updates to do, I'm not sure if he's updated it lately since it's from September/October 2015, but it skips all the updates that aren't necessary and have been known to cause issues with stability/performance.
> 
> Did you have any issues with Windows Updates taking forever to search for updates & causing 90-99% CPU Usage? Last time I formatted in January I think, I had to manually install a few updates to fix the Windows Update Client.
> 
> Also, can you see if KB3064209 is installed, or even an option for you? It's an update for Intel CPU Microcode Update, and when I last formatted it didn't appear under *Important* or *Optional Updates*, which I found odd.


I'm interested to see that list if you've still got it handy. Even if it's old, I'll be able to cross check a bunch of updates to get rid of if need be.

The updates went smoothly. They all updated without a hitch, none of them failed. HOWEVER!! That second paragraph... Oh man. I sat down at 6pm to eat some dinner, reinstalled Windows 7 in about 5 minutes flat VIA USB. _When went to update, it finished searching 9 hours later..._ Not a worry to me I was doing my own thing but damn it's never been like that. 20 minutes tops in the past! Though I can't say CPU usage was high, didn't notice anything sluggish. (Was browsing Chrome at that stage.)

I couldn't find KB3064209 either.
I updated my CPU Microcodes VIA my motherboards BIOS update for the internal modules.
_I'm not sure if it's the same._

Forum thread:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?42298-Asus-Maximus-V-Gene-Bios-v1903-Updated-Modules&p=492733&viewfull=1#post492733

Code:



Code:


        Select option for update

1 - Intel RST(e) OROM and EFI SataDriver
     OROM IRST RAID for SATA    - 13.1.0.2126
     EFI IRST RAID for SATA     - 13.1.0.2126   --- (Was recommended to match current Intel RST driver v13.1.0.1058)

2 - Intel OROM VBIOS and EFI GOP Driver
     OROM VBIOS SNB-IVB         - 2132
     EFI GOP Driver IvyBridge   - 3.0.1030
     EFI GOP Driver SandyBridge - 2.0.1024

3 - LAN OROM PXE and EFI UNDI - Intel, RTK, BCM, QCA
     OROM Intel Boot Agent CL   - 0.1.06
     EFI Intel Gigabit UNDI     - 0.0.09

7 - Update Intel CPU MicroCode
     Ivy Bridge CPUID 0306A9    - 19   --- (Was recommended for overclocking)
     SandyBridge CPUID 0206A7   - 28   --- (Was recommended for overclocking)

9 - ME Analyzer

i - Versions, HomePages and etc.

0 - Exit

Press ENTER - Re-Scanning ALL EFI modules.

Enter number:


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Did you install Platform Update for Windows 7? Worst update to install according to tons of people. Main thing with Windows 7 is avoiding all the crappy updates, and running Windows Index Experience Score (WinSAT), seems to impact performance somehow too, but only on Windows 7.


It can lead to graphical errors and BSODs IF you do not install it right after a new Windows 7 installation. I have always installed it after a format and never had any problems with it.
Furthermore, the Platform Update is crucial in that it essentially updates many components such as Kernel and DirectX, Video Decoding, and others to match Windows 8.1 performance.

Blindly uninstalling because it might be a "bad update" will only hamper overall system performance. Try it out, and uninstall if you experience problems.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> It can lead to graphical errors and BSODs IF you do not install it right after a new Windows 7 installation. I have always installed it after a format and never had any problems with it.
> Furthermore, the Platform Update is crucial in that it essentially updates many components such as Kernel and DirectX, Video Decoding, and others to match Windows 8.1 performance.
> 
> Blindly uninstalling because it might be a "bad update" will only hamper overall system performance. Try it out, and uninstall if you experience problems.


I had it installed at one point, than I did a clean install and skipped it, and my computer scored higher on benchmarks. When you Google KB2670838, the first page of results is about how bad it is. Can it cause any issues if I decide to install that update, than uninstall later on to run some tests?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I had it installed at one point, than I did a clean install and skipped it, and my computer scored higher on benchmarks. When you Google KB2670838, the first page of results is about how bad it is. Can it cause any issues if I decide to install that update, than uninstall later on to run some tests?


Its claim to fame is that old AMD HD6*** series drivers would cause blurry fonts and crashes, which is noted on the update page.
It introduces DX11.1 to Win7 and is a prerequisite for many programs since they rely on newer DX libraries, if you stream on Twitch, it has massively improved performance for the H.264 encoder.
I highly doubt that uninstalling it later would cause issues. Just give it a shot.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Its claim to fame is that old AMD HD6*** series drivers would cause blurry fonts and crashes, which is noted on the update page.
> It introduces DX11.1 to Win7 and is a prerequisite for many programs since they rely on newer DX libraries, if you stream on Twitch, it has massively improved performance for the H.264 encoder.
> I highly doubt that uninstalling it later would cause issues. Just give it a shot.


Alright, thanks for the insight, i'll give it a shot. Assuming it has no affect on DirectX 9 games?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Alright, thanks for the insight, i'll give it a shot. Assuming it has no affect on DirectX 9 games?


Probably not. Nothing about DX9 in the notes.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I'm interested to see that list if you've still got it handy. Even if it's old, I'll be able to cross check a bunch of updates to get rid of if need be.
> 
> The updates went smoothly. They all updated without a hitch, none of them failed. HOWEVER!! That second paragraph... Oh man. I sat down at 6pm to eat some dinner, reinstalled Windows 7 in about 5 minutes flat VIA USB. _When went to update, it finished searching 9 hours later..._ Not a worry to me I was doing my own thing but damn it's never been like that. 20 minutes tops in the past! Though I can't say CPU usage was high, didn't notice anything sluggish. (Was browsing Chrome at that stage.)
> 
> I couldn't find KB3064209 either.
> I updated my CPU Microcodes VIA my motherboards BIOS update for the internal modules.
> _I'm not sure if it's the same._
> 
> Forum thread:
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?42298-Asus-Maximus-V-Gene-Bios-v1903-Updated-Modules&p=492733&viewfull=1#post492733
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Select option for update
> 
> 1 - Intel RST(e) OROM and EFI SataDriver
> OROM IRST RAID for SATA    - 13.1.0.2126
> EFI IRST RAID for SATA     - 13.1.0.2126   --- (Was recommended to match current Intel RST driver v13.1.0.1058)
> 
> 2 - Intel OROM VBIOS and EFI GOP Driver
> OROM VBIOS SNB-IVB         - 2132
> EFI GOP Driver IvyBridge   - 3.0.1030
> EFI GOP Driver SandyBridge - 2.0.1024
> 
> 3 - LAN OROM PXE and EFI UNDI - Intel, RTK, BCM, QCA
> OROM Intel Boot Agent CL   - 0.1.06
> EFI Intel Gigabit UNDI     - 0.0.09
> 
> 7 - Update Intel CPU MicroCode
> Ivy Bridge CPUID 0306A9    - 19   --- (Was recommended for overclocking)
> SandyBridge CPUID 0206A7   - 28   --- (Was recommended for overclocking)
> 
> 9 - ME Analyzer
> 
> i - Versions, HomePages and etc.
> 
> 0 - Exit
> 
> Press ENTER - Re-Scanning ALL EFI modules.
> 
> Enter number:


Just booted up my PC for the first time in ~45 days. Updated Samsung Magician + Intel Chipset Device Software (v10.1.1.18), and did the Advanced Performance Optimization in Samsung Magician for the heck of it. I got 5,447.81 in Anvil SSD Benchmark. I think you can get your score up to 5,000 without an issue.


----------



## Curleyyy

Did you end up finding that list of Windows 7 KB's to not install?

Uninstalled Windows Platform Update and this is the first error I got on reboot.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Did you end up finding that list of Windows 7 KB's to not install?
> 
> Uninstalled Windows Platform Update and this is the first error I got on reboot.


You probably need the updated DirectWrite & Direct3D stuff from that Platform Update, to use that RainMeter program.


----------



## Curleyyy

I found a list here on overclock.net that has a bunch Windows 7 Updates we can uninstall.
--- http://www.overclock.net/t/1587577

Then I went ahead and made a batch file that uninstalls them all for you.

This is what it looks like when you first run it:


This is what it looks like when it's finished:


This is the code itself:

As you can see, all you have to do is replace the KB number here "_...wusa.exe /kb:*3012973* /uninstall..._" with whichever Windows KB you want to have uninstalled. Makes it easier to install a bunch on multiple computers. They then show up as "New Updates" when you reboot, however some might take awhile to come up. You should set your Windows Update search settings to "Never check for updates." (You should still install the new security updates and so forth that get released every now and then) and then to hide any updates that come along in the future that are not listed below in the file.

Just Copy & Paste the following into a new text document and rename it to "name.bat" and run as admin.

Code:



Code:


@ECHO OFF
echo.
echo    Invoke from an elevated command prompt.
echo    Right Click and "Run as Admin."

SETLOCAL

echo.
echo    Updated by Shadow/Curleyyy 04-05-2016
echo.
echo    For more information on all the Windows KB Updates:
echo    --- http://www.overclock.net/t/1587577
echo.
echo    For further information:
echo    --- http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882
echo.

echo    There are four batch files for different levels of WU to uninstall.
echo.
echo    * GOOD/SAFE
echo    ** MAYBE INSTALL IF NEEDED
echo    *** BAD UPDATE / NOT NEEDED
echo    **** WINDOWS 7/8 Telemetry Preparation (This file.)
echo.

echo    Uninstalling Windows 7/8 Telemetry Preparation Updates...

start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3012973 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2882822 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2952664 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2976978 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2977759 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2990214 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3012973 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3015249 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3021917 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3022345 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3035583 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3042058 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3044374 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3050265 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3050267 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3064683 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3065987 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3065988 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3068708 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3072318 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3074677 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3075249 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3075851 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3075853 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3080149 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3081437 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3081454 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3081954 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083324 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083325 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083710 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083711 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3088195 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3090045 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3093513 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3093983 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3102810 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3102812 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3112336 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3112343 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3118401 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3123862 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3135445 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3135449 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3138615 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3139929 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3146449 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.
start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3148198 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
echo  - done.

timeout 10

echo ... COMPLETED!
echo.
echo ... Please remember to reboot and hide the following KB Updates.
echo ... Some updates may take a long time to show up.
echo.
echo ... KB2882822
echo ... KB2952664
echo ... KB2976978
echo ... KB2977759
echo ... KB2990214
echo ... KB3012973
echo ... KB3015249
echo ... KB3021917
echo ... KB3022345
echo ... KB3035583
echo ... KB3042058
echo ... KB3044374
echo ... KB3050265
echo ... KB3050267
echo ... KB3064683
echo ... KB3065987
echo ... KB3065988
echo ... KB3068708
echo ... KB3072318
echo ... KB3074677
echo ... KB3075249
echo ... KB3075851
echo ... KB3075853
echo ... KB3080149
echo ... KB3081437
echo ... KB3081454
echo ... KB3081954
echo ... KB3083324
echo ... KB3083325
echo ... KB3083710
echo ... KB3083711
echo ... KB3088195
echo ... KB3090045
echo ... KB3093513
echo ... KB3093983
echo ... KB3102810
echo ... KB3102812
echo ... KB3112336
echo ... KB3112343
echo ... KB3118401
echo ... KB3123862
echo ... KB3135445
echo ... KB3135449
echo ... KB3138615
echo ... KB3139929
echo ... KB3146449
echo ... KB3148198
echo.
echo  -  done.

pause

The following are download links to the above file:
--- https://www.sendspace.com/file/669zhy


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I found a list here on overclock.net that has a bunch Windows 7 Updates we can uninstall.
> --- http://www.overclock.net/t/1587577
> 
> Then I went ahead and made a batch file that uninstalls them all for you.
> 
> This is what it looks like when you first run it:
> 
> 
> This is what it looks like when it's finished:
> 
> 
> This is the code itself:
> 
> As you can see, all you have to do is replace the KB number here "_...wusa.exe /kb:*3012973* /uninstall..._" with whichever Windows KB you want to have uninstalled. Makes it easier to install a bunch on multiple computers. They then show up as "New Updates" when you reboot, however some might take awhile to come up. You should set your Windows Update search settings to "Never check for updates." (You should still install the new security updates and so forth that get released every now and then) and then to hide any updates that come along in the future that are not listed below in the file.
> 
> Just Copy & Paste the following into a new text document and rename it to "name.bat" and run as admin.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> @ECHO OFF
> echo.
> echo    Invoke from an elevated command prompt.
> echo    Right Click and "Run as Admin."
> 
> SETLOCAL
> 
> echo.
> echo    Updated by Shadow/Curleyyy 04-05-2016
> echo.
> echo    For more information on all the Windows KB Updates:
> echo    --- http://www.overclock.net/t/1587577
> echo.
> echo    For further information:
> echo    --- http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882
> echo.
> 
> echo    There are four batch files for different levels of WU to uninstall.
> echo.
> echo    * GOOD/SAFE
> echo    ** MAYBE INSTALL IF NEEDED
> echo    *** BAD UPDATE / NOT NEEDED
> echo    **** WINDOWS 7/8 Telemetry Preparation (This file.)
> echo.
> 
> echo    Uninstalling Windows 7/8 Telemetry Preparation Updates...
> 
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3012973 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2882822 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2952664 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2976978 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2977759 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:2990214 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3012973 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3015249 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3021917 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3022345 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3035583 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3042058 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3044374 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3050265 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3050267 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3064683 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3065987 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3065988 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3068708 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3072318 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3074677 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3075249 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3075851 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3075853 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3080149 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3081437 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3081454 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3081954 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083324 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083325 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083710 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3083711 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3088195 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3090045 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3093513 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3093983 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3102810 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3102812 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3112336 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3112343 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3118401 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3123862 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3135445 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3135449 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3138615 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3139929 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3146449 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> start "title" /b /wait wusa.exe /kb:3148198 /uninstall /quiet /norestart
> echo  - done.
> 
> timeout 10
> 
> echo ... COMPLETED!
> echo.
> echo ... Please remember to reboot and hide the following KB Updates.
> echo ... Some updates may take a long time to show up.
> echo.
> echo ... KB2882822
> echo ... KB2952664
> echo ... KB2976978
> echo ... KB2977759
> echo ... KB2990214
> echo ... KB3012973
> echo ... KB3015249
> echo ... KB3021917
> echo ... KB3022345
> echo ... KB3035583
> echo ... KB3042058
> echo ... KB3044374
> echo ... KB3050265
> echo ... KB3050267
> echo ... KB3064683
> echo ... KB3065987
> echo ... KB3065988
> echo ... KB3068708
> echo ... KB3072318
> echo ... KB3074677
> echo ... KB3075249
> echo ... KB3075851
> echo ... KB3075853
> echo ... KB3080149
> echo ... KB3081437
> echo ... KB3081454
> echo ... KB3081954
> echo ... KB3083324
> echo ... KB3083325
> echo ... KB3083710
> echo ... KB3083711
> echo ... KB3088195
> echo ... KB3090045
> echo ... KB3093513
> echo ... KB3093983
> echo ... KB3102810
> echo ... KB3102812
> echo ... KB3112336
> echo ... KB3112343
> echo ... KB3118401
> echo ... KB3123862
> echo ... KB3135445
> echo ... KB3135449
> echo ... KB3138615
> echo ... KB3139929
> echo ... KB3146449
> echo ... KB3148198
> echo.
> echo  -  done.
> 
> pause
> 
> The following are download links to the above file:
> --- https://www.sendspace.com/file/669zhy


I was always meaning to make something like that. I ran Windows Update, came back to my PC ~20-30 minutes later, and it was still 'Checking For Updates'. I don't understand why the Windows Update Client is always screwed up, and as far as I know I installed the proper updates to fix it.


----------



## Curleyyy

Yeah, I like making things like that 'cause I tend to reinstall frequently. It's a bit of a habit of mine. Saves a lot of time
















I'll try and find the link a little later on but I came across a forum post of a user mentioning how and why it all happens. tl;dr over the years more packages have been added and little optimisation has happened. He was saying there needs to be a SP2, in doing so it'll reduce the time to search drastically. Also, it was mentioned that the Windows Update operates by scanning every bit of your computer in order to find the updates and it stores information multiple times. It stores your current version in 64bit and 32bit it also stores the version it's searching for in 64bit and 32bit and there were a few others, all of this adds up to an extended time. Creating a SP2 will help a lot.

I can't verify that's true but it's what seems most likely from what I've come across.


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*


Try to install latest windows update client https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612
It helped me with this ridiculous "Checking for updates" time.

I took it from this thread https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/4a782e40-bbd8-40b7-869d-68e3dfd1a5b4/windows-update-scan-high-memory-usage?forum=w7itproperf


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whood*
> 
> Try to install latest windows update client https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612
> It helped me with this ridiculous "Checking for updates" time.
> 
> I took it from this thread https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/4a782e40-bbd8-40b7-869d-68e3dfd1a5b4/windows-update-scan-high-memory-usage?forum=w7itproperf


Thanks man, I'l give it a shot. I noticed my CPU Usage wasn't 90% like it was after a clean install of Windows 7, when trying to run Windows Update, so I figured mine was fine, but the last updates it shows are from February/March 2016.


----------



## Curleyyy

Thought I'd post a bit of my folder thingies for an example of what I have for anyone that's interested.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Did you end up finding that list of Windows 7 KB's to not install?
> 
> Uninstalled Windows Platform Update and this is the first error I got on reboot.


Found it, courtesy of @VolsAndJezuz







. Embedding might not be the best option, here's the Imgur Album.

*Updates to DO*


*Updates to SKIP!*


----------



## Curleyyy

Thank you!









The "Updates to Skip" seems to have a scrollbar of more things to skip. *I have a question:* If I were to install a game that installs DirectX with it during the installation process, would I require, or would it be optimal to install the full DirectX package?
Quote:


> One of my friends says the following:
> _Updating to the latest DirectX 9c wouldn't hurt. It just updates libraries. When you install each game you need to reinstall DirectX so that it checks that specific libraries for each game are available. It will then copy extra libraries across._


If someone could find a suitable game that installs DirectX in the process:

Test #1
-Install the game, let it install DirectX in the process.
-Install full DirectX libraries.
-Run benchmark / gather results.
-Uninstall Game/DirectX Library

Test #2
-Reinstall game and let it install DirectX in the process.
-Don't install full DirectX library.
-Run benchmark / gather results.

-Post the results.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "Updates to Skip" seems to have a scrollbar of more things to skip. *I have a question:* If I were to install a game that installs DirectX with it during the installation process, would I require, or would it be optimal to install the full DirectX package?
> If someone could find a suitable game that installs DirectX in the process:
> 
> Test #1
> -Install the game, let it install DirectX in the process.
> -Install full DirectX libraries.
> -Run benchmark / gather results.
> -Uninstall Game/DirectX Library
> 
> Test #2
> -Reinstall game and let it install DirectX in the process.
> -Don't install full DirectX library.
> -Run benchmark / gather results.
> 
> -Post the results.


Honestly, no clue about DirectX. Let me see if I have an expanded image of the 'Updates to Hide'. I keep getting 'explorer.exe has crashed', no clue what is causing it, never had this issue before but it's annoying as sheet.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Honestly, no clue about DirectX. Let me see if I have an expanded image of the 'Updates to Hide'. I keep getting 'explorer.exe has crashed', no clue what is causing it, never had this issue before but it's annoying as sheet.


What have you changed lately? Try changing it back and see if it continues. I'm going to install the full DirectX library and see if I can notice anything without doing a proper test.

Test are my most recent AnvilPro and DiskMark bench.

Q: Do you guys close every application before running tests?

I'm going to see if there's anything else I can do in my motherboards BIOS. One thing I haven't done yet is to try and use the most recent Intel RST(e) Firmware. Though I would have to also update my motherboards Intel RST module that matches the new one and I can't be bothered to do that right now haha.


----------



## rivage

Is installing Windows10 worth considering mousefeel and latency wise compared to Windows7? Been wondering that alot....


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Is installing Windows10 worth considering mousefeel and latency wise compared to Windows7? Been wondering that alot....


Honestly only you can answer that question. It isn't like you can't just make a backup image of your current install and roll back to it if you don't like 10.

All asking other people is going to do is give you a bunch of their subjective opinions that you probably won't share.


----------



## Curleyyy

*Anvil* benchmark just earlier:


*Anvil* benchmark just now:
_Disabled SMART VIA BIOS. Disabled a few services. Unplugged a few devices._


*CrystalDiskMark* benchmark just earlier:


*CrystalDiskMark* benchmark just now:
_Disabled SMART VIA BIOS. Disabled a few services. Unplugged a few devices._


*SuperPi* after:


*Mouse Movement Recorder* after:
_At 1000hz the rate fluctuates by 20, and about 300 in game. I've capped it at 500 to give the most consistent feeling._


*LatencyMon* after:


*LatencyMon* after:


*Task Manager* after:


*Task Manager* after:


----------



## Curleyyy

I had to reinstall Windows 7 again 'cause I was overclocking my RAM and it didn't like it, corrupted the OS file.

Anyway, I'm slowly installing a few drivers and Windows Updates as I go along and I noticed after installing KMDF-1.11 (Required to install Intel ME Firmware) and rebooting, there was a noticeable change in mouse movement. It felt like mouse acceleration was suddenly turned on.

*Installed the latest Windows Update Client (March) and it didn't take 9 hours to search for all the updates like 2 days ago.*
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> actually cs 1.6 have stable rate against cs go


O.O

I'm downloading CS1.6 at the moment to see what I get.

$50 bucks says mine fluctuates between 600 - 1200.


----------



## dodi300

I was tested two boards of mine

1 is i7 4790k with C7Z97-OCE hpet on
2 is i5 2500k with asus v gene hpet off

I suffer huge kernel latency (hal.dll) with asus v gene about 300 stuck

With i7 4790k and set everything on msi mode i get 0.88898 kernel latency

So hpet timer beeter then tsc?


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fluxify*
> 
> How do you guys feel about these tweaks my friend sent me?
> 
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/tweak_me_7b48.html
> 
> http://www.filedropper.com/mysets


----------



## dodi300

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dodi300*
> 
> I was tested two boards of mine
> 
> 1 is i7 4790k with C7Z97-OCE hpet on
> 2 is i5 2500k with asus v gene hpet off
> 
> I suffer huge kernel latency (hal.dll) with asus v gene about 300 stuck
> 
> With i7 4790k and set everything on msi mode i get 0.88898 kernel latency
> 
> So hpet timer beeter then tsc?


----------



## Curleyyy

Ummmmmmmmmmm...

Red / Green shows us that there is a difference.

I've also read that Green = When you hit the edge of the screen and keep going.

EPP was turned OFF in Windows Control Panel this entire test.
*Q: Are these read outs be correct? Is there anything to make it better?*

*Desktop + MMR*


*CSGO + MMR*


*CS1.6 + MMR*


----------



## Topkek007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Ummmmmmmmmmm...
> 
> *Q: Are these read outs be correct? Is there anything to make it better?*


Windows ones are okay

CS 1.6 seems to be played best with


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



rinput utility (check for negative acceleration), make sure to check another spoiler before trying



CS:GO it depends on m_rawinput 1 or 0, I guess, but from what I have heard, it is best to have m_rawinput 1 if the fps is not stable and m_rawinput 0 for stable, but for some reason I keep m_rawinput set to 1


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



, it is also possible to use rinput utility on cs:go, did not got a vac ban for it, another person which used it and was very happy about, although I did more than a half an year ago. CS 1.6 got a vac ban, cannot tell if it was rinput or not, have modified, exchanged different CS dlls which probably was it; when messing with game injecting something, replacing files, modifying and writing stuff accessing ram, or writing ram even in-game scripting as .lua, things that could potentially trigger a vac ban is better to do on separate steam account just for testing, too bad I have cs 1.6 ban on main, it seems as valve is not even trying to investigate no matter how much emails I sent them and tried to add them and talk to them on steam, steam support is a joke, they "confirmed" that ban










it could be that mouse input is buffered for next frame rendering, so MMR is comparing realtime data with the one that goes with frames being rendered, gl hf


----------



## navjack27

i'm PRETTY much done with this whole thread. way too much sarcasm and guesses and people thinking computers are some sort of magic machines.

just plug ur stuff in, play games. stop messing with things... IF you have a problem with ur game where it is VERY APPARENTLY the game and ur system and not your own performance... then maybe screw around and try some things or just reinstall fresh windows with default everything and see where that brings you before going insane like most have in this thread.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> stop messing with things...


Those sorts of comments are what I'd like to say "not welcome here," they're really just not necessary man but thank you for your input!







I'd like to point out that a lot of tweaks do in fact make changes; now not all of them affect frame rate or mouse but that's not the entire goal here. I'm not sure about everyone else but; my idea is that we find things we can change, see if they make a difference, post the results and do another tweak.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topkek007*
> 
> snip


I didn't test 1.6 with rinput, I'll do that soon.

*CS:GO as I'm aware:*
1.) If your PC can manage a high fps that doesn't seem to dip a lot: (Dips no less than around 180 - 300 personally.)

fps_max "0" or "999"
I've read game issues on "0" where it goes over 1000 fps and bugs out so "999" is preferred.
m_rawinput "0"
If you can maintain a high constant fps.
rinput.exe
Alternative raw input.

2.) If your PC fluctuates a lot or in firefights you struggle maintaining smooth frame rate: (Dips lower than 180 are not ideal.)

fps_max "100" / "120" / "144" / "250" / "300" / "500" / "999"
I've read that people set double their refresh rate "120" / "150" / "288"
Also read that +- 1 can help with input lag "119" / "143"
m_rawinput "1"
It's said that input isn't preferable if your fps fluctuates a great deal.

I once had max pre-rendered frames set to 0, but NVIDIA went and changed things. For the last several months I've had it forced to render 1 frame ahead for consistancy cause I'm unsure as to how CS:GO handles it, but lately I've assumed CS:GO wouldn't need to render ahead by default in the game so it'd set 0 by itself.

I have no idea though but it seems to feel nice in game with how it's set.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I once had max pre-rendered frames set to 0, but NVIDIA went and changed things. For the last several months I've had it forced to render 1 frame ahead for consistancy cause I'm unsure as to how CS:GO handles it, but lately I've assumed CS:GO wouldn't need to render ahead by default in the game so it'd set 0 by itself.
> 
> I have no idea though but it seems to feel nice in game with how it's set.


Same here. Default just feels better than 1 imo. It might have lower input lag but it makes stuff sorta choppy and harder to hit so I guess it's a trade off between smoothness or some input lag, or none at all according to those esr test


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

I did read something about Display port and people says creates mouse lag. If remember clear, some voltage issues with display port. My english is not good enought to search detailed, but here is an example

https://hardforum.com/threads/displayport-cables-must-not-use-pin-20-warning.1803684/

_Connecting pin 20 feeds 3.3v back into your video card, which causes issues, and may even damage the video card so that it may affect whatever else you plug into it later_

I removed DP cable (both from monitor and GPU) and plugged DVI cable.

and this guy did eliminate port 20

http://sepczuk.com/techblog/2013/07/displayport-sleep-resume-problem-resolved/


----------



## pox02

displayport much faster then dvi-d but the input lag not notchable


----------



## Huzzaa

Curleyy
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> displayport much faster then dvi-d but the input lag not notchable


I believe the correct word is not faster but has bigger throughput, aka. bandwitdh. It's a bit different.

Unless I'm mistaken, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But to also bring an analogy, it's the same as most clueless people talking about their "internet". And say, my internet is faster than yours, it's 500 whatever-o-bits vs. your 10 or 12 or whatever.
When in fact, they are only talking about their bandwitdh. Latency, the actual "speed", may not be any different at all between the two. (Although in this obvious example, one is probably on fibre tech. whilst the other is on DSL tech, which have a noticably large difference between latency as well but that is not the point).

Just saying.


----------



## knowom

For DPC Latency the biggest thing by far causing latency is the graphics driver. In fact even in the case of keyboard/mouse interaction it's nearly entirely tied to the GPU updating the screens graphics from keyboard/mouse GUI interaction while the input itself causes virtually none even with abnormal brute force keyboard macro usage. If you push them too far though DPC Latency actually temporarily freeze in place with the "repeat options while pressed" setting and low delay such as 0 milliseconds. I assume that is to do with keyboard interrupts high CPU priority.

I reduced my cursor blink rate speed to 4 ticks just based on what I've seen with minor graphic interactions inducing latency spikes with DPC Latency. I figure it can't hurt to minimize them a bit as well and given 2D GDI is no longer fully hardware accelerated in Windows Vista or newer. I didn't turn it off completely as I still want to be able to reasonably noticeable however so that setting felt like best compromise!


----------



## pox02

when i get my new asus maximus vii gene the mouse feels amazing again









Keybot Disable when i connect my keyboard on PS2

now the usbport.sys latency stuck on 0.2MS

i suggest to use bios 2801


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> when i get my new asus maximus vii gene the mouse feels amazing again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keybot Disable when i connect my keyboard on PS2
> 
> now the usbport.sys latency stuck on 0.2MS
> 
> i suggest to use bios 2801


Yo pox, what's the best setup for the maximus v gene?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Yo pox, what's the best setup for the maximus v gene?


bios 1903
HPET ON turn all MSI MODE

this is the best you get my maximus v gene sold to my old friend good mobo


----------



## emka

I don't have a maximus v gene, but a GA-Z97X-gaming3



Which ones of these should I try to put in msi mode ?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emka*
> 
> Which ones of these should I try to put in msi mode ?


You want to put as many as you can into MSI Mode.

***CAUTION*** _When switching to MSI Mode, the driver may or may not accept the switch and can result in a BSOD. Use System Restore to create a Restore Point before each device you switch over to MSI Mode. Make sure you switch one at a time._ *Otherwise you risk having to reinstall your entire system.*

These are my results:


----------



## emka

I have system restore disabled, am I still good to go if I do them one by one ?

nvm: didn't read your entire post, ill enable system restore before I do it.


----------



## PurpleChef

Pox still posting random stuff and now he got amazing mouse feel









This thread need moderation


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Pox still posting random stuff and now he got amazing mouse feel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread need moderation


Don't worry after 2 days he will have bad mouse feel again, inb4 he buys new video card and gets again amazing mouse feels.


----------



## Solarfox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> I did read something about Display port and people says creates mouse lag. If remember clear, some voltage issues with display port. My english is not good enought to search detailed, but here is an example
> 
> https://hardforum.com/threads/displayport-cables-must-not-use-pin-20-warning.1803684/
> 
> _Connecting pin 20 feeds 3.3v back into your video card, which causes issues, and may even damage the video card so that it may affect whatever else you plug into it later_
> 
> I removed DP cable (both from monitor and GPU) and plugged DVI cable.
> 
> and this guy did eliminate port 20
> 
> http://sepczuk.com/techblog/2013/07/displayport-sleep-resume-problem-resolved/


Last week i Bought Display Port cable 1m from internet, probably some chinese, and with that cable my PC turn on and turn off after less than 0.5 sec. Than i borrow another DP cable from my brother`s PC which came with Dell monitor and this one work. Now i see this post that CABLE is problem. I hope so i did not burn some DP port on my MSI GTX960. Will check later, i`m at work now.


----------



## dodi300

DJ_OXyGeNe_8 cut the bull s h 1 t displayport cant create mouse lag and its the same as dvi d there advantage on dp and thats the high bandwidth if i choose again dvid or dp i will take dp for sure


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Man I'm not saying this, just did read and shared.


----------



## alpino

Hello people,

It seems like I'm having a latecy problem. I have disabled HPET both in OS and bios and xHCI,eHCI,legacy usb controller,CPU C states as well in BIOS. I dont have controller driver installed in OS. So mostly I did most of the settings stated here.

Here is a picture taken during CS:GO session.


And this one when pc is idle.


List of programs running in manager.

http://imgur.com/KpZRkDB

List of programs installed in PC(It's fairly new formatted)


Driver tab in LatecyMon:



My PC specs are:

MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard
Intel I7 4770K without OC
GSKILL 16GB (2x8GB) RipjawsX DDR3 1600MHz CL10
Asus 780 ti
Samsung 840 Evo
Seagate 1TB ST1000DM003
Haf 912 advance
Using 6vsg2 with ps/2

I use 2 monitors main one is benq 2411. Other one is some asus 19" monitor.

Also I use 2 different audio device, one moba's internal output which 5+1 system plugged in and other one is cloud 2 which uses its own soundcard.

My mouse is zowie ec2-a.

Do you have any advice to find out what might be causing problem?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

First of all, just don't bother with DPC latency checker because it no longer really works properly with modern OS'es. LatencyMon replaces its functionality and some.

Having two sound cards enabled simultaneously is a recurring source of stutter, lag, and other frustrations. No idea if that's the case here or not, but that should be fairly easy for you to test one at a time but simply unplugging the other and seeing if things improve. In my experience, USB headsets work like dog crap with CS:GO voice for whatever reason, not to mention they almost universally have relatively poor sound quality ("gaming headphones") and being on USB is inherently bad because you are creating polling competition with your USB mouse.

I would re-enable HPET, as all observations and experiments I've personally done (across three different chipsets and mobo manufacturers) have pointed to USB polling precision being better, DPC and other latency being slightly improved, fewer and less pronounced occurrences of jitters and microstutters, etc... not to mention that some programs and drivers just kinda expect HPET to be there and perform strangely or sub-optimally when they have to resort to a replacement timer. It used to be more common for some motherboard manufacturers to distribute shoddy HPET implementations, so the broad brush advice of disabling HPET made somewhat more sense then. But now it's merely outdated or just misunderstood advice that errs on the side of indifference either way for the most part, except in some isolated cases like pro audio.

If you have two monitors, make sure to change to one monitor in Windows desktop before you start playing something like CS:GO. Having the display driver configured for two monitors, even if there's not even anything on the second monitor and you turn it off, is still a major drag on the GPU's resources and can cause spikes in the ISR and DPC routines related to display--DirectX kernel and NVIDIA display driver--which are the worst offenders in your LatencyMon screenshot.

Furthermore on reducing contributions from those two specifically, considering uninstalling all NVIDIA related stuff and doing a clean install of just the graphics driver. The other stuff is just bloat unless you use part of it specifically, and can really weigh down the NVIDIA driver implementation (Geforce Experience, I'm looking at you). Then after you set your NVIDIA control panel settings, go to the system services and set the NVIDIA display driver to Manual instead of Automatic. Having it running causes spikes of ~100 to several 100s of us, every few seconds. Even set to Manual, it will start itself any time you right-click on the desktop because NVIDIA installs a context menu item there. I recommend removing it with a program like Autoruns to avoid accidentally starting it, then making a shortcut to the NVIDIA control panel elsewhere for the rare occassion you need to open it again after installation.

Also, there is some variation between the NVIDIA driver versions as to what extent they cause ISR/DPC execution time spikes. Personally I've found 347.09 Beta to be one of the best for this among many other reasons as well. The bigger difference is between the different GPU series: for instance, my GTX 780 and 780 Ti have significantly smaller (~30 versus ~150+ us) and many fewer periodic spikes than my GTX 680, even on the same system with the same driver version.

Another piece of advice would be to unpark your CPU cores to fully take advantage of having disabled C-states. Also completely avoid the CS:GO launch options "-high" and "-threads #". I will be making a reddit post soon explaining why both of those are bad.

There was basically no coherence to most of those thoughts, so I only put minimal effort into cobbling them together. I just shat out some random suggestions that came to mind. I'm still not exactly certain what the issue is that you help with or if you were just looking for some more general advice.


----------



## tehelelol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I would re-enable HPET, as all observations and experiments I've personally done (across three different chipsets and mobo manufacturers) have pointed to USB polling precision being better, DPC and other latency being slightly improved, fewer and less pronounced occurrences of jitters and microstutters, etc... not to mention that some programs and drivers just kinda expect HPET to be there and perform strangely or sub-optimally when they have to resort to a replacement timer. It used to be more common for some motherboard manufacturers to distribute shoddy HPET implementations, so the broad brush advice of disabling HPET made somewhat more sense then. But now it's merely outdated or just misunderstood advice that errs on the side of indifference either way for the most part, except in some isolated cases like pro audio.
> .


Did you / anyone tried HPET with Z170 skylake chipset?
Any feedback regarding HPET on skylake? I've read that it behaves differently.
Also I am using ASUS ROG Hero VIII mainboard which doesn't have the option to disable it so should I keep it enabled in Windows?
OS = Windows 7

Thanks for feedback.


----------



## alpino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*


That was beautifully explained, thank you. I have done most of the things you mentioned, hovewer in order to close second monitor before a gaming session and opening again after it, I need to have NVIDIA . Therefore disabling NVIDIA(in other words making it manual) goes away. Also in NVIDIA's page there are only old drivers between 359.06 and 368.22. Thats being said I'll test the remaining settings I have changed.


----------



## altf4

Where do you get nvidia 379.09 beta drivers?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Where do you get nvidia 379.09 beta drivers?


He probably meant 347.09 Beta

http://forums.videocardz.com/topic/820-nvidia-geforce-34709-beta/

Getting really good results on this set as well.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tehelelol*
> 
> Did you / anyone tried HPET with Z170 skylake chipset?
> Any feedback regarding HPET on skylake? I've read that it behaves differently.
> Also I am using ASUS ROG Hero VIII mainboard which doesn't have the option to disable it so should I keep it enabled in Windows?
> OS = Windows 7
> 
> Thanks for feedback.


The newest chipset I have any experience with is Z97, sorry. And don't disable or force HPET in Windows, whether you have it enabled or disabled in BIOS. You can ensure it is neither disabled nor enforced by entering this in a command prompt: bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

It will say element not found if the value did exist already.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alpino*
> 
> That was beautifully explained, thank you. I have done most of the things you mentioned, hovewer in order to close second monitor before a gaming session and opening again after it, I need to have NVIDIA . Therefore disabling NVIDIA(in other words making it manual) goes away. Also in NVIDIA's page there are only old drivers between 359.06 and 368.22. Thats being said I'll test the remaining settings I have changed.


Look below to links for the NVIDIA driver I was talking about. I have to leave soon but when I get back on I will post instructions for easily switching between single/dual monitors without NVIDIA control panel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Where do you get nvidia 379.09 beta drivers?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> He probably meant 347.09 Beta
> 
> http://forums.videocardz.com/topic/820-nvidia-geforce-34709-beta/
> 
> Getting really good results on this set as well.


Indeed, I've corrected the original post.


----------



## knowom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> First of all, just don't bother with DPC latency checker because it no longer really works properly with modern OS'es. LatencyMon replaces its functionality and some.


I can still get as low as 1us at CPU idle in DPC latency checker in windows 10 if I disable things in device manager. Namely if you disable your display adapter driver most of the periodic latency spiking issues disappear. The real problem is the OS changes themselves that took place after XP to GDI and direct X or the display drivers have changed for the worse. Just moving your mouse or using your keyboard to open and close the windows menu will cause DPC latency spiking and in nvidia inspector you can see that it triggers power state changes from P8 idle to P0 3D clock speeds.

From what I hear GPU boost in Nvidia bios is also a cause of some latency spiking. If you force power saving power states with Nvidia Inspector latency gets a bit worse too so seems like it's likely accurate. It's the same reason people disable c-states to minimize latency basically. TimerTool program can help minimize typical spiking severity if you modify timer to set timer to 0.5 ms. I went from around 1000us periodic spiking from light CPU load even from minor stuff like mouse/keyboard usage down to around 500us. It's a nice improvement and can be setup to run sent to system tray at startup with a registry tweak or bat file as well.

I can't fault DPC Latency Checker for any of those things and while LatencyMon is a good tool in it's own right and in some ways more informative it's not reporting any better latency results yet no one claims that is broken. Disabling other things can help too like network adapters and USB devices. Some people recommend turning off power saving features.

As far as HPET is concerned from what I've read about it's a crap shoot mix bag of results scenario where basically you can't have your cake and eat it too. For some tasks it will help and for others it will hurt essentially is how I interpreted how the differing timers work. It's kind of similar to adjust best performance of program or background services you can't have both ways and depending on the scenario one or the other is more ideal.


----------



## Gonzalez07

is it possible to rename a driver to something higher? I wouldnt mind using older versions, but newer games wont let you play.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

*pox02* what do u think about ASUS Maximus VII Ranger 1150 with 4790k
I want to buy this plate soon. this motherboard like urs ASUS Maximus VII Gene right?)
same dpc results?!
and i still want stable Mouse polling rate on this rig
if u know!? mb not) what bios i should install on this motherboard?which is better?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IAMSTERDAM*
> 
> *pox02* what do u think about ASUS Maximus VII Ranger 1150 with 4790k
> I want to buy this plate soon. this motherboard like urs ASUS Maximus VII Gene right?)
> same dpc results?!
> and i still want stable Mouse polling rate on this rig
> if u know!? mb not) what bios i should install on this motherboard?which is better?


i never tested the ranger but from what i see the are the same features but they differents bios you need found your best bios


----------



## Nastya

Reminder you don't have to turn off all power-saving options in BIOS to get decent latency.
This is with C-States, HPET, Turbo Boost all enabled.


----------



## softskiller

AndiWandi to you have something like your 5 best tips to achieve this?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys I didn't notice this device before, what is it for? Is this effec latency?



Is this came with new bios or windows update not sure. I only added to system NZXT HUE+ - Didn't change anything.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> AndiWandi to you have something like your 5 best tips to achieve this?


I'm not going to lie, most of what constitutes a good latency is probably related to how good the BIOS on your board is. I suppose it doesn't hurt keeping it up to date.

Now, as far as the tweaks in this thread go (bear in mind I have not scientifically tested their impact on latency), I used the following:

BIOS options disabled:

- Integrated Audio
- Virtualization
- USB Legacy Support
- both USB Handoff options

Device Manager settings:

- disabled USB 3.0 controllers I don't use
- applied MSI mode to all devices that support it
- disabled NVIDIA High Definition Audio

I also run a pretty barebones setup on my services. See picture.


Also, this was on the latest Nvidia driver set. I used to get DPC spikes on earlier ones, but it looks like they fixed that. Oh yeah, and I usually install Driver, PhysX, Audio only.


----------



## PurpleChef

Any new imba latency tweaks? disconnect cpucooler?


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Any new imba latency tweaks? disconnect cpucooler?


Whatever you do, don't disconnect your brain. Oh, wait...


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> 
> 
> Reminder you don't have to turn off all power-saving options in BIOS to get decent latency.
> This is with C-States, HPET, Turbo Boost all enabled.


You realize 0.0 page fault errors just means you sat idle at desktop with nothing open? Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you photoshopped it, as LatencyMon itself generates pagefaults. Even then, this is a useless screenshot, as it doesn't show whether your system can handle latency well. The point of the tool is troubleshoot during audio/video playback to see if your system can handle real-time playback without any major faults. It's rather misleading to people who don't know any better.

"Hey guys, check out my super low latency while I'm idle at desktop with everything closed! I won't even be using the system, but man it feels so responsive looking at the desktop with the 0.05ms improvement!"

This thread always give me a good laugh.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> You realize 0.0 page fault errors just means you sat idle at desktop with nothing open? Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you photoshopped it, as LatencyMon itself generates pagefaults. Even then, this is a useless screenshot, as it doesn't show whether your system can handle latency well. The point of the tool is troubleshoot during audio/video playback to see if your system can handle real-time playback without any major faults. It's rather misleading to people who don't know any better.
> 
> "Hey guys, check out my super low latency while I'm idle at desktop with everything closed! I won't even be using the system, but man it feels so responsive looking at the desktop with the 0.05ms improvement!"
> 
> This thread always give me a good laugh.


Nothing "open" (running*) would be when the PC is off. Page faults are unrelated to latency. We use the tool to measure latency.

But nice troll attempt.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> You realize 0.0 page fault errors just means you sat idle at desktop with nothing open? Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you photoshopped it, as LatencyMon itself generates pagefaults. Even then, this is a useless screenshot, as it doesn't show whether your system can handle latency well. The point of the tool is troubleshoot during audio/video playback to see if your system can handle real-time playback without any major faults. It's rather misleading to people who don't know any better.
> 
> "Hey guys, check out my super low latency while I'm idle at desktop with everything closed! I won't even be using the system, but man it feels so responsive looking at the desktop with the 0.05ms improvement!"
> 
> This thread always give me a good laugh.


Seeing as you cared enough to respond to my post, I'd like to address some of your points:

Page fault errors being zero after five minutes of idling is not a safe bet. In fact, I've had problems with it spiking into the high red regions after a minute even on idle, giving cause to the red LatencyMon notification. One of the measures I have done fixed it. It's that simple. Also, why would I want to photoshop a screenshot for an internet forum? It's weird you should assume I take this stuff that seriously.

If you go over my posts here, you will see that I'm far from advocating every placebo tweak here on this thread, and the only thing I mentioned in this post was that turning off all power-saving options might not be necessary. As far as testing under load goes, you are correct. In no way would my screenshot reflect load latencies.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Nothing "open" (running*) would be when the PC is off. Page faults are unrelated to latency. We use the tool to measure latency.
> 
> But nice troll attempt.


You realize the application is measuring the time it takes to resolve the page fault? If it was unrelated to latency, it wouldn't even be in the application, lol. Why do you think it's measured in µs cycle time like the rest of the counters? Take some time and go read the LatencyMon website.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Seeing as you cared enough to respond to my post, I'd like to address some of your points:
> 
> Page fault errors being zero after five minutes of idling is not a safe bet. In fact, I've had problems with it spiking into the high red regions after a minute even on idle, giving cause to the red LatencyMon notification. One of the measures I have done fixed it. It's that simple. Also, why would I want to photoshop a screenshot for an internet forum? It's weird you should assume I take this stuff that seriously.
> 
> If you go over my posts here, you will see that I'm far from advocating every placebo tweak here on this thread, and the only thing I mentioned in this post was that turning off all power-saving options might not be necessary. As far as testing under load goes, you are correct. In no way would my screenshot reflect load latencies.


Exactly my point. You're measuring an idle system. You're not getting an accurate representation of what you're after and what the tool is intended to do, unless of course your goal is sitting and starting at a desktop wallpaper. You're just showing off a cherry picked screenshot to brag and it's misleading to people that don't know any better.

This is equivalent of me buying a brand new GTX 1080 and telling you I got 900 fps benchmarking it.........at the main menu of the game. What's the point? Want to show something relevant? Show your results during a gaming session, or during heavy video playback, browsing the web, listening to music, etc - when the drivers are really put to use:


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> You realize the application is measuring the time it takes to resolve the page fault? If it was unrelated to latency, it wouldn't even be in the application, lol. Why do you think it's measured in µs cycle time like the rest of the counters? Take some time and go read the LatencyMon website.


We're measuring DPC latency. That screenshot you quoted was pointing out DPC latency, not page faults (the page faults were 0, so why are we even talking about this? It's a mystery to me). Do you not understand that? Everything in your computer causes latency. DPC latency is a good measurement for overall system/kernel latency, and it can be measured via software like LatencyMon and DPC Latency Checker in Windows.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> This is equivalent of me buying a brand new GTX 1080 and telling you I got 900 fps benchmarking it.........at the main menu of the game. What's the point? Want to show something relevant? Show your results during a gaming session, or during heavy video playback, browsing the web, listening to music, etc - when the drivers are really put to use:


So if another card gets a consistent 500 fps in a menu while the 1080 gets 900, assuming 100% load on both cards and same API, etc., there's no point in that data?

500 fps = 2 ms frame latency
900 fps = 1.1 ms frame latency -> Proves the 1080 is almost twice as fast as the other card, and that it isn't by 20%, in terms of the amount of frames it can display per second. We also know that there is an improvement in latency of 45%.

That is absolutely relevant data. Otherwise what you're looking at is average frame rates during random sections of gameplay and the likes (not saying you can't get consistent results that are just as relevant, if not more). It's good for consumers to look at graphs and see if they can get above whatever refresh rate they play at and that's about it. If the card accomplishes consistent full load under the menu then you're not taxing it any less than actual gameplay would, lol. It would have to be a pretty awesome menu, though (something like Battlefleet Gothic Armada), or some pretty awesome scalability.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> We're measuring DPC latency. That screenshot you quoted was pointing out DPC latency, not page faults (the page faults were 0, so why are we even talking about this? It's a mystery to me). Do you not understand that? Everything in your computer causes latency. DPC latency is a good measurement for overall system/kernel latency, and it can be measured via software like LatencyMon and DPC Latency Checker in Windows.


Oh, so now you want to ignore that the application measures the time it takes to resolve hard page faults when we were just talking about it? You literally just said *"Page faults are unrelated to latency. We use the tool to measure latency."*, now you're telling me everything in your computer causes latency. So which it is? I suggest you go read the LatencyMon page and get a better grasp of what the tool does before you start calling people trolls.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> So if another card gets a consistent 500 fps in a menu while the 1080 gets 900, assuming 100% load on both cards and same API, etc., there's no point in that data?
> 
> 500 fps = 2 ms frame latency
> 900 fps = 1.1 ms frame latency -> Proves the 1080 is almost twice as fast as the other card, and that it isn't by 20%, in terms of the amount of frames it can display per second. We also know that there is an improvement in latency of 45%.
> 
> That is absolutely relevant data. Otherwise what you're looking at is average frame rates during random sections of gameplay and the likes (not saying you can't get consistent results that are just as relevant, if not more). It's good for consumers to look at graphs and see if they can get above whatever refresh rate they play at and that's about it. If the card accomplishes consistent full load under the menu then you're not taxing it any less than actual gameplay would, lol. It would have to be a pretty awesome menu, though (something like Battlefleet Gothic Armada), or some pretty awesome scalability.


The fact that you even tried to breakdown a metaphor is laughable. The figure of speech was to show how absurd the way he is using the tool is.

Majority of people in this thread are measuring and showing off latency measured at an idle desktop, as if it's relevant. I get it if you want to provide a baseline, but there needs to also be shown the system under load. Posting one screenshot of your system idling with super low latency, as is said, is misleading to those that don't know better. It's completely unrealistic, unless, again, you sit and watch your wallpaper. You're not going to get those results he showed when you're using the system. IT SHOULD BE USED AS A BASELINE RESULT.

Example, I can also kill every possible background process and cherry pick a screenshot:



but in reality, when testing the system properly, these are real-world results and they get worse with more demanding games:


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Oh, so now you want to ignore that the application measures the time it takes to resolve hard page faults when we were just talking about it? You literally just said *"Page faults are unrelated to latency. We use the tool to measure latency."*, now you're telling me everything in your computer causes latency. So which it is? I suggest you go read the LatencyMon page and get a better grasp of what the tool does before you start calling people trolls.


I'm not the one pointing out page fault latency (technically it's the highest resolution time for a specific page fault but I'll give it a pass as potentially having an impact on overall latency under load situations) on a SS that literally shows 0 page faults, lol. A SS that was not trying to deceive anyone btw, like you seem to be suggesting. You're talking about page faults for no reason, most likely so that you can feel better about yourself:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> This thread always give me a good laugh.


It's like several people pointing out how much gas their car consumes when running completely motionless, and then you come completely out of the blue and tell them: "yeah, that's great, but it's actually going 0 miles per hour, so gas consumption while the car isn't moving isn't relevant. What's relevant is the maximum time it takes for the gasoline to get pumped into the engine when the car is running at top speeds... because reading about it somewhere gave me an excuse to mention it for no reason". Whatever makes you happy, but don't expect anyone to jump on your nonsense ego-train.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> The fact that you even tried to breakdown a metaphor is laughable. The figure of speech was to show how absurd the way he is using the tool is.
> 
> Majority of people in this thread are measuring and showing off latency measured at an idle desktop, as if it's relevant. I get it if you want to provide a baseline, but there needs to also be shown the system under load. Posting one screenshot of your system idling with super low latency, as is said, is misleading to those that don't know better. It's completely unrealistic, unless, again, you sit and watch your wallpaper. You're not going to get those results he showed when you're using the system. IT SHOULD BE USED AS A BASELINE RESULT.
> 
> Example, I can also kill every possible background process and cherry pick a screenshot:
> 
> but in reality, when testing the system properly, these are real-world results and they get worse with more demanding games:


So now fps on a game menu with a 1080, a card that's just been released, is a "metaphor". Weird. I thought it was a hypothetical case bordering on realistic, but what do I know. You know better. Obviously. It's so obvious that you had to come here to show us all how baseline DPC latency doesn't mean anything (despite the fact that it's the best software-based way of measuring system latency and despite the fact that measuring DPC latency at any workload relies on baseline values for accurate/consistent data), and how highest resolution times for specific page faults are what it's all about. Damn, son. Where ya find that brain?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I'm not the one pointing out page fault latency (technically it's the highest resolution time for a specific page fault but I'll give it a pass as potentially having an impact on overall latency under load situations) on a SS that literally shows 0 page faults, lol. A SS that was not trying to deceive anyone btw, like you seem to be suggesting. You're talking about page faults for no reason, most likely so that you can feel better about yourself:
> It's like several people pointing out how much gas their car consumes when running completely motionless, and then you come completely out of the blue and tell them: "yeah, that's great, but it's actually going 0 miles per hour, so gas consumption while the car isn't moving isn't relevant. What's relevant is the maximum time it takes for the gasoline to get pumped into the engine when the car is running at top speeds... because reading about it somewhere gave me an excuse to mention it for no reason". Whatever makes you happy, but don't expect anyone to jump on your nonsense ego-train.
> So now fps on a game menu with a 1080, a card that's just been released, is a "metaphor". Weird. I thought it was a hypothetical case bordering on realistic, but what do I know. You know better. Obviously. It's so obvious that you had to come here to show us all how baseline DPC latency doesn't mean anything (despite the fact that it's the best software-based way of measuring system latency and despite the fact that measuring DPC latency relies on baseline values for accurate/consistent data), and how highest resolution times for specific page faults are what it's all about. Damn, son. Where ya find that brain?


This right here sums up the majority of people in this thread. Talking about gas and comparing it to latency now. This thread never fails to deliver a comical experience.

You're here just to argue and provide nothing relevant to the discussion besides calling people with opposing opinion trolls. My initial reply was to say 0 page faults and such low latency is misleading, because it's not an accurate representation of how the system handles latency, again, unless you're staring at a desktop doing nothing. It's a good baseline result, that's it. Thus the metaphor saying, it's like benchmarking a game at the main menu, you're not getting the full picture of how it performs. And you're now on my ignore list.


----------



## Huzzaa

Arguing over a tangent.

I lost some brain cells reading that Trull. Really, I did.


----------



## softskiller

Why this sudden fight out of nowhere (after I've asked AndiWandi about his settings)?

Why "idle" dpc (and pagefaults) matter: because we do not have a standard for a state of equal load to compare our systems. It would depend if and how CPU, GPU, disk (with/without LPM), RAM, USB input devices etc. are stressed - and if (game-) sound is played at the same time because they all add up.

That's why the idle state is a good start to look for problems.
Idle here means: no user input, no user aplications running, but the OS is still doing it's job with the native (optimized?) processes.

For example my hard pagefault time is pretty high when "idle" up to 8000 μs.

This could be due to link power management, so one can start and compare the results with different settings for it in the BIOS and RST driver.

Of ourse, when there are 0 pagefaults, the time would be 0 too.
It also depends if one deactivates the pagefile. But Win might still use the tiny swapfile.

So when someone achieves good values while idle, that might be a good foundation when load adds up.


----------



## Huzzaa

I literally laughed at that!!


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Arguing over a tangent.
> 
> I lost some brain cells reading that Trull. Really, I did.


Hey, don't call me a troll!


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Why this sudden fight out of nowhere (after I've asked AndiWandi about his settings)?
> 
> Why "idle" dpc (and pagefaults) matter: because we do not have a standard for a state of equal load to compare our systems. It would depend if and how CPU, GPU, disk (with/without LPM), RAM, USB input devices etc. are stressed - and if (game-) sound is played at the same time because they all add up.
> 
> That's why the idle state is a good start to look for problems.
> Idle here means: no user input, no user aplications running, but the OS is still doing it's job with the native (optimized?) processes.
> 
> For example my hard pagefault time is pretty high when "idle" up to 8000 μs.
> 
> This could be due to link power management, so one can start and compare the results with different settings for it in the BIOS and RST driver.
> 
> Of ourse, when there are 0 pagefaults, the time would be 0 too.
> It also depends if one deactivates the pagefile. But Win might still use the tiny swapfile.
> 
> So when someone achieves good values while idle, that might be a good foundation when load adds up.


You're just reiterating what I said, that the results should be used as a baseline result. You need to provide the system under some type of load to make the baseline results relevant. Again, play a game, stream some music, watch an HD video, etc.

And you don't need a standard. Your system can either handle, or not handle the latency well. That's it, nothing more to it. Once you get to below <500µs, the results start to become diminishable. The fact that some people say they can feel a difference in something like a <100µs improvement from disabling bios features and services is questionable when you look at the numbers:

1µs = 0.001ms
100µs = 0.1ms
200µs = 0.2ms


----------



## Trull

My God, this guy knows a lot about numbers.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> My God, this guy knows a lot about numbers.


Well he is right. All you do is posting screenshots of system doing nothing and talkin about nvidia drivers + some random mouse tweaks that no one confirmes. Rip

and why disable pagefile? LmAo


----------



## dribler

I have two OS on my PC, one of those is Win XP for older games and stuff. Just wonder if the *344.11* nvidia driver is the best go for it like on win7/10 or i should stick to older XP approved drivers ?


----------



## cpaqf1

Should the newest Intel Ethernet drivers be installed on Windows 10 if they're already already provided by the OS? r0ach only mentionned windows 8 and 7.

thanks


----------



## Nastya

I usually install them for some of the additional features they include. I didn't see any negative change in latency. Bear in mind this might be different for your NIC.


----------



## IaVoR

not bad right


----------



## cpaqf1

last thing, how about the realtek drivers? are the ms ones once again suitable?


----------



## IceAero

Can anyone provide comments on how important (or not) it is in Windows 10 to disable all or most of the visual effects?

I recently turned everything off, except text smoothing, and noticed that my cursor felt more responsive.

I'm ready to dismiss this as placebo, but maybe everyone does this and I was just not aware?


----------



## RevanCorana

Do you have any evidence that onboard realtek audio causes input lag?

Seems impossible that manufacturers would not be aware and fix something like this.


----------



## x7007

I have a question about paging file that I want to ask you all. what I know already that you must having paging file no matter what, the question is where do you need it, I'll explain.

Having C:/ Sandisk SSD and F:/ Raid 0 Samsung x3 HDD and some games in C:\Gamez and games in F:\Gamez . as I have 3D TV I'm using Tridef and Nvidia 3Dvision compability mode not with nvidia glasses but the TV ones.

Now as I got my GTX1080 I thought I could disable paging file and play games. it was not the case.
As I have for example couple games . Lords of the Fallen , Call of Duty Special OPS III , GTA V on C:\Gamez , maybe running them in 2D works fine, but when I tried to use BOTH Tridef and 3Dvision they crashed saying I don't have enough memory, or just crashed. GTA V and CODSP III crashed the first 5-10 minutes, unplayable at all, but Lords of the Fallen actually played along in 3D and didn't crash for 15-20 minutes that I tested, but it just didn't crash at all.

now I had Paging file on F:\ the whole time but I played the games from C:\ and 2 of them heavy resources games crashed. I did run games from F:\ in 3D and they didn't crash, nore 2D.

My point is an answer with a question which is, you need to have Paging File at the minimum in some hardisk or SSD . the question is, does the page file needs to be on C:\ because it's the System partition or because I ran games from C:\ ? If I don't put paging file on F:\ and play heavy resources games, will it have issue saying I don't have enough memory because I play the game from F:\ ?

It's hard to explain but I mean, if we need paging file, does it mean we need paging file on all hardisks or SSD we play from or just the System Partition would be enough ?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Mouse-Rate-Checker.shtml


Mouse rater isn't as good. Also I would advice against downlo
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RevanCorana*
> 
> Do you have any evidence that onboard realtek audio causes input lag?
> 
> Seems impossible that manufacturers would not be aware and fix something like this.


Anything you add adds input lag. Even if it did add a lot of input lag (which it used to but I'm not sure now) most users won't notice so manufacturors don't care.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Disabling the paging file is stupid unless you enjoy random BSODs and program/game crashes. Personally, I've found two 768MB paging files on each of my SSDs to be the optimal configuration, but that is with 16GB of RAM. If you have less or you use memory intensive applications often, I would be a lot more generous with the size. Also, I would recommend only putting it on SSD(s) if you have them. Yes, it will increase the wear on the SSD, but it won't be a measurable amount if you have a decent amount of RAM because it will be rarely used, and you want your system to be able to deal with the paging file as quickly as possible. The reason I have paging files on both of my SSDs is so that if one is currently performing a read or write, the other drive's paging file will still be available for quick access. When the system decides to read or write the paging file, it will query the paging files available on all drives and utilize whichever responds first.

Edit: I'm not on sure as this because I don't use partitions, but I think you want a paging file to be on the first partition of a disk with multiple partitions. And you definitely don't want multiple paging files on different partitions of the same drive.


----------



## chuckiz

so there is better drivers than 344.11 for csgo?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I prefer 347.09 Beta for slightly higher FPS, but 344.11 is good as well.


----------



## chuckiz

thanks


----------



## RevanCorana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Mouse rater isn't as good. Also I would advice against downlo
> Anything you add adds input lag. Even if it did add a lot of input lag (which it used to but I'm not sure now) most users won't notice so manufacturors don't care.


So what are you supposed then, not have sound at all? xD

the DPC latency doesn't seem to increase significantly with onboard audio enabled at least on my motherboard.

Maybe it's because it's a SupremeFX (rog motherboard)


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RevanCorana*
> 
> So what are you supposed then, not have sound at all? xD
> 
> the DPC latency doesn't seem to increase significantly with onboard audio enabled at least on my motherboard.


Depends on who you ask.

Someone like r0ach or one of his purist cult members would say you should be playing with a Pentium 1 on a CRT with no sound, the lowest possible resolution, a ball mouse, and running windows 95. Preferably do it with no arms, in a swamp, with clown face paint.

Someone who isn't literally insane would probably say that having audio is more than worth a small (in most cases completely indistinguishable by human perception) increase in DPC latency, and that the numbers represented here are for purely academic and troubleshooting purposes.


----------



## RevanCorana

Yea there should be a way to objectively test and mesure cursor responsiveness.
Maybe with a high speed camera...


----------



## PurpleChef

mouse rate checker Isnt as good? and how is that? it shows hz... smh


----------



## x7007

What setting can cause a USB keyboard to delete and write faster when you typing or deleting ? When I used the computer and didn't restart it, came open , wrote my password in the windows 10 lock screen the typing and delete was very fast compare to the normal. what could cause it ? I want it to be fast as it was, now it is very slow.

Because somehow after I didn't restart or I did restart and changed couple power management bios settings my keyboard delete slow.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> What setting can cause a USB keyboard to delete and write faster when you typing or deleting ? When I used the computer and didn't restart it, came open , wrote my password in the windows 10 lock screen the typing and delete was very fast compare to the normal. what could cause it ? I want it to be fast as it was, now it is very slow.
> 
> Because somehow after I didn't restart or I did restart and changed couple power management bios settings my keyboard delete slow.


Repeat delay in 'Keyboard' setting in Control Panel.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Repeat delay in 'Keyboard' setting in Control Panel.


Yes , that setting always get taking care of . But does USB slot will effect it ? Will there be a different between some USB to other USB , because there is a bit.


----------



## acbcccb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I prefer 347.09 Beta for slightly higher FPS, but 344.11 is good as well.


For Win 10 which nvidia drivers?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acbcccb*
> 
> For Win 10 which nvidia drivers?


Anything under 364 branch I'd wager.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I prefer 347.09 Beta for slightly higher FPS, but 344.11 is good as well.


So 347.09 Beta for the most FPS possible in CS:GO? The new one's won't get you the most?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

It's my driver version of choice. You may want the newer drivers if you have newer hardware that needs it or want the NVIDIA settings for newer games.

For Windows 10, I have no idea guys. I have as much interest in switching to W10 as I do in leaving PC gaming to go back to console gaming.


----------



## Fluxify

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> It's my driver version of choice. You may want the newer drivers if you have newer hardware that needs it or want the NVIDIA settings for newer games.
> 
> For Windows 10, I have no idea guys. I have as much interest in switching to W10 as I do in leaving PC gaming to go back to console gaming.


Well, I'm only playing CS:GO, so I was just wondering which driver is the best in terms of FPS, etc.


----------



## PurpleChef

http://www.tweakforce.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6902

Did anyone try Xtreme-G 16.7.1 WIN10 x64 driver on AMD GPU? any 290X users? how is it VS Crimson? Pro/Cons?


----------



## x7007

does anyone else has issuw with benq xl2730t freesync not detected ? even installed windows 10 instead win 8.1 , tried the newest crismon driver. not supported it says


----------



## nicolovbg

Hello, r0ach! I don't know if you have tested it again after a while, but in my case using "GPU - No Scaling" instead of "Display - No Scaling" reduces latency so much that the difference is as clear as day ang night. I have ASUS VG248QE Monitor and the latest driver for my GTX 960. Was there a change with Nvidia drivers?


----------



## Topkek007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicolovbg*
> 
> Hello, r0ach! I don't know if you have tested it again after a while, but in my case using "GPU - No Scaling" instead of "Display - No Scaling" reduces latency so much that the difference is as clear as day ang night. I have ASUS VG248QE Monitor and the latest driver for my GTX 960. Was there a change with Nvidia drivers?


Which version you do currently use?


----------



## nicolovbg

I use version 368.69 on Windows 7 64-bit.


----------



## softskiller

About the scaling thing:

When you install a new Nvidia driver: "display - no scaling" is set.
If you click restore defaults: it changes to "display - aspect ratio".

This means, Nvidia is not using the default setting when doing a fresh driver installation.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I prefer 347.09 Beta for slightly higher FPS, but 344.11 is good as well.


I get 10-15% better fps with 353.82 than 347.09. Ofc that would probably only be true for a 7** series card since that driver seems to be the best one to have the optimizations made and still be quite responsive. Not quite as good in that regard as 347.09 or the 344.11, 344.16 drivers tho but still quite good.


----------



## altf4

Anyone know if it's possible to decrease polling rate on CM Storm QuickFire TK keyboard?


----------



## bigtastie

I have a 580 GTX and play CSGO primarily. I tried some of the older drivers 344.11 and 347.09 Beta. I don't really notice any difference in responsiveness/input lag compared to the latest Nvidia drivers, but it I get a lot worse fps drops when looking in smokes.

What driver is recommended for the old 5-series?


----------



## Timecard

There's one tweak that's unmentioned on here, IRQ priority via registry.

-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\PriorityControl\
-Create new DWORD
-Name: IRQ#Priority where # the IRQ you want to boost priority.
-Value: # where (1 is highest priority)

Restart your computer and feel the difference in-game.

Most people have increased the priority of the CMOS clock (IRQ 8) which has an overall impact to the system, however you could try boosting the gpu, mouse, cpu IRQ priority.

This works on Win 7, 8, and 10.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timecard*
> 
> There's one tweak that's unmentioned on here, IRQ priority via registry.
> 
> -HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\PriorityControl\
> -Create new DWORD
> -Name: IRQ#Priority where # the IRQ you want to boost priority.
> -Value: # where (1 is highest priority)
> 
> Restart your computer and feel the difference in-game.
> 
> Most people have increased the priority of the CMOS clock (IRQ 8) which has an overall impact to the system, however you could try boosting the gpu, mouse, cpu IRQ priority.
> 
> This works on Win 7, 8, and 10.


Interesting. What IRQ you priority and why?

Does Process Lasso priority IRQs auto or change anything related to it?


----------



## Timecard

I dont know process lasso very well, I have tested modifying IRQ priority for usb, gpu, cmos and system clock. CMOS (8) and system clock (0) IRQ produced positive results when one is set to priority 1, mouse and keyboard became more responsive from a gaming perspective.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

The IRQ priority thing makes no measurable or perceptible difference that I've been able to find, so I'm extremely dubious as to whether it actually does anything. But feel free to use it because it's not going to make anything worse.

Process Lasso is basically just a dressed up version of the Multimedia Class Scheduler service. Personally, I prefer to not use Process Lasso and disable MMCSS. There is more overhead involved in dynamically managing process priorities than it is able to make up for, in my measurements. It may for instance give you increased peak FPS in a game, but because at least 10% of CPU process time is reserved for low-priority system tasks, there is more variability and lower average FPS in my experience. MMCSS may be needed on some systems though to maintain smooth audio playback and other such latency sensitive tasks. And if you keep your system loaded up with resource intensive processes, say for instance you like to game while having a Twitch stream playing on the other monitor and downloading a torrent in the background, then MMCSS would probably be beneficial.


----------



## Timecard

I've been having all sorts of issues with my computer, keyboard input delay on PS/2 and usb (2.0), as well as usb mouse accuracy/consistency. This IRQ priority tweak seemed to have reduce these issues on both Win7 and Win10.

The keyboard input issues shouldn't exist given it is reporting directly through PS/2 on a low IRQ but in-game I would be doing a series of simple and complex movements in quake3 arena but my character would start miss turns during a jump as if i was still holding a key even though I wasn't. With the priority tweak these issues occur much less or not at all.

Out of all the optimizations in the USB polling thread and this one, this is the only one that has nearly resolved the issue for me with my keyboard movement and mouse consistency issues. I'm assuming there's some sort of issue with my computer or motherboard.

Mouse: Zowie ZA13
CPU: i5 4590 3.3ghz
GPU: Nvidia 560ti
Keyboard: Steelseries 6gv2 Cherry Red
Monitor: BenQ XL2411
Motherboard: Asus z97m-plus


----------



## RevanCorana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timecard*
> 
> -Name: IRQ#Priority where # the IRQ you want to boost priority.


What do you replace # with there for mice priority and others? how do you know which is which number?


----------



## Timecard

IRQs can be viewed in the device manager manager console of windows.

This guide shows you how to see them with pictures.
http://windows7themes.net/en-us/how-to-change-irq-in-windows-7/


----------



## Conditioned

What's better, dvi-d or displayport?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> What's better, dvi-d or displayport?


For latency?

Probably depends on your video card and drivers. On older cards I imagine the answer is DVI-D. On newer cards that don't have DVI-D native it could be the other way around.

That said, it probably doesn't matter to any significant degree. DisplayPort is the superior connection in terms of raw bandwidth and support for DRM checks (sigh).


----------



## freddycatking

Can someone give me a TLDR on MSI mode on devices please? Is it helpful, and what devices are good to switch to MSI mode?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

See the USB polling precision thread.


----------



## freddycatking

So I've switched everything to MSI except the ACPI driver which prevents windows from booting and now it's preventing LATmon from going below 10/12 DPC latency. Any tips?


----------



## pstN

is this good for a optimized pc?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pstN*
> 
> 
> is this good for a optimized pc?


I would say this is decent for an unoptimized pc.


----------



## x7007

Putting Soundcard in MSI mode will cause issues , do not do that


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Putting Soundcard in MSI mode will cause issues , do not do that


Which issues?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> Which issues?


Total system freeze. Stuttering , u might not notice it or it will take ages till it happens


----------



## Curleyyy

If anyone could help out, that'd be grand!

Q.1) I have a .tmp file that rapidly gains size.
Q.2.) What's causing my high idle GPU temps?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1606822/windows-10-temp-file/0_100#post_25377463


----------



## freddycatking

I've got questions about PRIO and cpu priority. What's safe to put less priority to? Will I get audio drops if I put audiodg/audio drivers to below normal? How about affinity with csgo? Is it good to mess with or should I just leave all processes on all cores?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Don't change the audio priority, that's useless. You shouldn't mess with affinity for CS:GO, because it doesn't behave the way you would expect it to. Also don't use -threads launch option. I can all but guarantee that people who are using -threads are using it incorrectly and hurting their game performance.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Don't change the audio priority, that's useless. You shouldn't mess with affinity for CS:GO, because it doesn't behave the way you would expect it to. Also don't use -threads launch option. I can all but guarantee that people who are using -threads are using it incorrectly and hurting their game performance.


This can't be repeated enough. Don't just copy "tweaks", always research the possible implications and whether it is really a tweak. Also, the IRQ priority stuiff is placebo or even detrimental to performance.


----------



## freddycatking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> This can't be repeated enough. Don't just copy "tweaks", always research the possible implications and whether it is really a tweak. Also, the IRQ priority stuiff is placebo or even detrimental to performance.


I don't use -threads, but mat_queue_mode "-2" is still a good choice right?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> I don't use -threads, but mat_queue_mode "-2" is still a good choice right?


Not entirely sure on this, but in CS:GO I don't think "-2" is a valid option for mqm, so it just behaves the same as the default "-1" setting.


----------



## kjovisc

I think you want to use mat_queue_mode 2 which force multiple gpu mode, but -1 means "default" which shoud already be multirendering...


----------



## freddycatking

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kjovisc*
> 
> I think you want to use mat_queue_mode 2 which force multiple gpu mode, but -1 means "default" which shoud already be multirendering...


Seems like people are reporting huge fps gain with either 2 or -2... I don't understand the science behind it because there doesnt seem to be any. But those seem to give me more fps than -1 even though multicore rendering is on in video settings

EDIT: looks like setting it to -2 makes it default to -1 so people are reporting more fps cuz they're dumb. Oh well.


----------



## kjovisc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freddycatking*
> 
> Seems like people are reporting huge fps gain with either 2 or -2... I don't understand the science behind it because there doesnt seem to be any. But those seem to give me more fps than -1 even though multicore rendering is on in video settings
> 
> EDIT: looks like setting it to -2 makes it default to -1 so people are reporting more fps cuz they're dumb. Oh well.


Like VolsAndJezuz said, -2 isn't an option. I personnally put +mat_queue_mode 2 and -threads 2 (2 cores cpu) in launch options just to be sure. And, for the record, when I tried to take -threads out my fps lowered, so I guess the command works FOR ME.


----------



## RevanCorana

Can someone sum up what's MSI mode, the advantages, how and when to use it?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kjovisc*
> 
> Like VolsAndJezuz said, -2 isn't an option. I personnally put +mat_queue_mode 2 and -threads 2 (2 cores cpu) in launch options just to be sure. And, for the record, when I tried to take -threads out my fps lowered, so I guess the command works FOR ME.


Yeah -threads 2 is fine, while -threads 3 would be the default behavior on a quad-core CPU. I often see -threads 4 suggested for a quad-core, which makes one of the CPU game threads compete with the NVIDIA CPU thread on one of the cores, and since the NVIDIA CPU thread is typically the second heaviest on CPU use after the main game thread, this will lead to jittering and FPS drops when that core utilization hits 100%. Eventually I plan on making a nice reddit post with loads of supporting data and images demonstrating all this, but for now trust me that in most cases it is better to leave out the -threads command altogether and your mat_queue_mode setting will create the appropriate number of threads for you.

And you may know this already, but using a launch option with +, like +mat_queue_mode 2, is the same as opening the console and typing that command without the + in every time the game runs, which is the same as including it in autoexec. So you can keep it an a launch option if you wish, but just make sure it is either the same value or not defined in your autoexec.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RevanCorana*
> 
> Can someone sum up what's MSI mode, the advantages, how and when to use it?


See the USB polling precision thread.


----------



## softskiller

Someone did a reddit post based on/copied from this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4vcya4/making_csgo_smoother/


----------



## RevanCorana

Found this for re-enabling Display Scaling option for Nvidia drivers on Windows 10

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=592511209


----------



## PurpleChef

Problem with Strobe duty 007, Strobe phase 043 is **** is to dark. and with 100 its just to much input lag. How to fix this? its to dark even if i have the VT tweak, and there seems to be no way inbetween, since i want as low input lag as possible, while having BBR on... how?

BENQ XL2720Z
1920x1080
front porch 48 pixels, 3 lines;
sync with 32 pixels, 5 lines
Horizontal total 2080
VT 1500


----------



## 1Shot1Frag

Hi, i have one question and need your help:

Does changing Gamma or Digital Vibrance on nVidia control panel affects latency in any way?

Thanks!


----------



## x7007

I just noticed, I don't know if someone told about it, Asus Q-Fan or any other Fan Controller in bios, disable them, it improved my mouse control to steady speed, instead changing randomly speed every restart or randomly after some actions, can't even explain it. just disable it as other people say too. Just in the bios, no software installed in windows.

http://www.monitis.com/blog/2013/01/24/performance-tuning-windows-2012-network-subsystem-part-2

"System Management Interrupts

Many hardware systems use System Management Interrupts (SMI) for a variety of maintenance functions, including reporting of ECC memory errors, legacy USB compatibility, fan control, and BIOS controlled power management. The SMI is the highest priority interrupt on the system and places the CPU in a management mode, which preempts all other activity while it runs an interrupt service routine, typically contained in BIOS.
This behavior can result in latency spikes of 100 microseconds or more. If you need to achieve the lowest latency, look for a BIOS version from your hardware provider that reduces SMIs to the lowest degree possible, referred to as "low latency BIOS" or "SMI free BIOS." It is not possible to eliminate SMI activity altogether because it is used to control some essential functions, such as fan control."


----------



## Fluxify

What is the best NVIDIA Driver for CS:GO fps? I have a GeForce GTX 760 (192-bit).

Using Windows 8.1. One guy earlier recommended the 347.09 Beta, but wanted to see if you guys have anything better. (Haven't tested that yet.)


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I just noticed, I don't know if someone told about it, Asus Q-Fan or any other Fan Controller in bios, disable them, it improved my mouse control to steady speed, instead changing randomly speed every restart or randomly after some actions, can't even explain it. just disable it as other people say too. Just in the bios, no software installed in windows.
> 
> http://www.monitis.com/blog/2013/01/24/performance-tuning-windows-2012-network-subsystem-part-2
> 
> "System Management Interrupts
> 
> Many hardware systems use System Management Interrupts (SMI) for a variety of maintenance functions, including reporting of ECC memory errors, legacy USB compatibility, fan control, and BIOS controlled power management. The SMI is the highest priority interrupt on the system and places the CPU in a management mode, which preempts all other activity while it runs an interrupt service routine, typically contained in BIOS.
> This behavior can result in latency spikes of 100 microseconds or more. If you need to achieve the lowest latency, look for a BIOS version from your hardware provider that reduces SMIs to the lowest degree possible, referred to as "low latency BIOS" or "SMI free BIOS." It is not possible to eliminate SMI activity altogether because it is used to control some essential functions, such as fan control."


Your post reminded me of visiting http://www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php again. Seems like they've updated the TCP Optimizer for Windows 10. Nice!
Also I'll try the Asus Q-Fan thing. Let's see


----------



## x7007

Guys

Check if you have Intel Management Engine Interface on the Device Manager > System Devices >
Because I had version 8.1.xxx and it had very high ISR number in Latencymon with the file HECIx64.sys . after installing the newest I could possibly find and installing on my system 11.0.5.1189
I have TeaDriverW8x64.sys instead of HECIx64.sys and there are no more ISR.

*DON'T DISABLE* - Intel Management Engine Interface

More information

The Intel(R) Capability Licensing Service Interface is part of the HECI bus allows the host operating system (OS) to communicate directly with the Manageability Engine (ME) integrated in the chipset. This bi-directional, variable data-rate bus enables the Host and ME to communicate system management information and events in a standards-compliant way, *essentially replacing the System Management Bus (SMBus).*

Intel(R) Capability Licensing Service TCP IP Interface runs as a separate (within the context of its own process) windows Service named "Intel(R) Capability Licensing Service TCP IP Interface". This is installed with Intel(R) Trusted Execution Engine which is the name of a computer hardware technology whose primary goals are (a) attestation - attest to the authenticity of a platform and its operating system (OS); (b) assure that an authentic OS starts in a trusted environment and thus can be considered a trusted OS; (c) provide the trusted OS with additional security capabilities not available to an unproven OS.

The Intel® Dynamic Application Loader (DAL) Host Interface Service is a component of the Intel® Identity Protection Technology that is installed with the ME firmware toolkit. The Intel® DAL Host Interface Service is a Windows service and provides basic communication services. Intel® IPT with PKI uses the Intel® Management Engine (Intel® ME) and 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i5 or i7 vPro™ processor-powered systems to provide a hardware based security solution.

Intel® Managment and Security Application Local Management Service is part of the Intel® Management Engine components.

*Intel® Management Engine* refers to the hardware features that operate at the baseboard level, below the operating system. By enabling interaction with low-level hardware. It is important because it is how the processor, graphics and a few other subsystems ensure they are running with the right settings to work together.

Intel® USB 3.0 monitor is part of the Intel® USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller Driver and its main functions are:
Monitors plug and play status of all USB 3.0 ports.
Generates pop-up message for event notification.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Probably done posting here. Explanation:
> 
> http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1455145.0


Shame R0ach I find your posts valuable often. While the topic itself doesn't interest me enough it seems at a glance you discuss different things. You talk about a value derived from consensus, he talks about items that have an intricate value, ie they are valuable due to function or practicality somehow. Don't let stupid people that can't use logic or common sense dictate where you post, be it forum moderators or professors. I'm part of a small group of people that have developed a method for teaching dyslexics to read and write. This despite what most people from the pedagogical field claim is impossible. Despite us providing proof in the form of studies, people who have gone and gotten a dyslexia diagnosis, then went back to the same place to take the tests again then showing no dyslexia (impossible) and loads and loads of references. One of our clients is a mother of 4 dyslexic children, all of whom we have educated and can now read and write properly. 3 of them have dyslexia diagnosis. So when this mother of 4, an acknowledged scientist in her own field, contacts a person at her own university she gets snubbed off. She more or less get's called an idiot. Of course the person at her university has never talked to us and even less been at one of our classes. I can go on and on. Point is. I really don't care about what stupid people think or say.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Can someone help? When I had a fresh install of Windows 10, LatMon gave me good readings of 10-20 us. I checked now and the drivers storahci and storport are causing spikes of up to 1,800 us. Highest execution on both of these drivers is a whopping 1.15 ms. What the hell is going on here?!


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Hopefully you don't have devices connected to non-integrated ATA controller (they are usually Marvell or ASM controllers). Ideally everything is connected through the integrated Intel SATA controller. If so, then maybe you don't have the ideal RST driver installed. Check this site for information on picking the best Intel RST driver for your system: http://www.win-raid.com/t25f23-Which-are-the-quot-best-quot-Intel-AHCI-RAID-drivers.html


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Hopefully you don't have devices connected to non-integrated ATA controller (they are usually Marvell or ASM controllers). Ideally everything is connected through the integrated Intel SATA controller. If so, then maybe you don't have the ideal RST driver installed. Check this site for information on picking the best Intel RST driver for your system: http://www.win-raid.com/t25f23-Which-are-the-quot-best-quot-Intel-AHCI-RAID-drivers.html


I followed R0ach's guide and didn't install Intel RST. Will one of these RST drivers fix it if I don't have one installed at all?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I would say probably but I don't know for sure. There's many things on r0ach's guide that I don't follow. When in doubt, do your own research and test for yourself. Don't take r0ach's guide as the word of god. Or mine for that matter.


----------



## RevanCorana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> I followed R0ach's guide and didn't install Intel RST. Will one of these RST drivers fix it if I don't have one installed at all?


1. create a restore point
2. use TechNet Autorun to disable all services, shedulded tasks and drivers that you dont use
3. enjoy truely decrapified windows 10


----------



## Lucifer1945

Doesnt turning off virtualization accomplish literally nothing if you dont own a pro version of windows?


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RevanCorana*
> 
> 1. create a restore point
> 2. use TechNet Autorun to disable all services, shedulded tasks and drivers that you dont use
> 3. enjoy truely decrapified windows 10


What is safe to turn off? printscreen plz what u have done. More w10 tweaks?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> I followed R0ach's guide and didn't install Intel RST. Will one of these RST drivers fix it if I don't have one installed at all?


Doesn't Windows 10 automatically install all recent drivers? Test settings to see how they affect your system, every hardware combination responds differently. Use AnvilBenchmark to compare Intel RST drivers (I install through Device Manager) in the thread that Vols and Jezuz linked you to. There's usually a few different drivers listed on win-raid posts per chipset, so find which one gives the best results.


----------



## Lucifer1945

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Doesn't Windows 10 automatically install all recent drivers? Test settings to see how they affect your system, every hardware combination responds differently. Use AnvilBenchmark to compare Intel RST drivers (I install through Device Manager) in the thread that Vols and Jezuz linked you to. There's usually a few different drivers listed on win-raid posts per chipset, so find which one gives the best results.


No. Use driverbooster. Then, if you are perfomance minded, turn off autoupdate monitoring. It steals CPU cycles..


----------



## RevanCorana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> What is safe to turn off? printscreen plz what u have done. More w10 tweaks?


it's not completely cleaned up (some windows defender stuff lying around still) http://imgur.com/a/98exZ
For WIN services and shedulded tasks spam F5 because theres stuff that doesnt always show up.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucifer1945*
> 
> No. Use driverbooster. Then, if you are perfomance minded, turn off autoupdate monitoring. It steals CPU cycles..


I assume you're talking about for Windows 10 only? Tried it in March or April, clean install with all the extra garbage disabled, and my fps benchmarks in CS:GO (only game I play), dropped by about ~60 fps. Could have been due to the NVIDIA Drivers for Windows 10 at the time though.


----------



## retrograde

I have tried most of the tweaks outlined in this thread and for the most part my system is running well however I do have a couple of concerns.

I'm using the integrated Intel I218V chip on a z97 board and I've noticed that my network drivers seem to spike to around 200 us, should I just ignore this or is there something I can do about it?

Also I have a question specific to ASUS motherboards I've tried to do research on a setting called DRAM Clk Period without any luck, when changing this setting from default I get a huge performance boost to memory read and write speeds. I also experience smoother mouse tracking but that might very well be a placebo, can memory timings and or frequency effect the mouse in any way and does anyone happen to know what the Clk Period setting actually does?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *retrograde*
> 
> I have tried most of the tweaks outlined in this thread and for the most part my system is running well however I do have a couple of concerns.
> 
> I'm using the integrated Intel I218V chip on a z97 board and I've noticed that my network drivers seem to spike to around 200 us, should I just ignore this or is there something I can do about it?
> 
> Also I have a question specific to ASUS motherboards I've tried to do research on a setting called DRAM Clk Period without any luck, when changing this setting from default I get a huge performance boost to memory read and write speeds. I also experience smoother mouse tracking but that might very well be a placebo, can memory timings and or frequency effect the mouse in any way and does anyone happen to know what the Clk Period setting actually does?


`

What driver for the I218-v? I use v19.1.51 off the ASUS site for my ASUS Z97-AR, and have no DPC latency issues, I think it's the newer ones (eg: v20.x.x) that caused those issues.


----------



## retrograde

I'm using Windows 10 and unfortunately the oldest compatible driver is 20.1, currently I'm using 21.0.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RevanCorana*
> 
> it's not completely cleaned up (some windows defender stuff lying around still) http://imgur.com/a/98exZ
> For WIN services and shedulded tasks spam F5 because theres stuff that doesnt always show up.


Did it lower your DPC ? unchecking all the sys files ?


----------



## Gonzalez07

Strange issue, ive been trying out windows 10 and before it would automatically set timer resolution to 0.5 when using applications. Now it only goes to 1.0. Anyone know how to get it back to change to 0.5? Mightve been a windows update that changed something


----------



## Curleyyy

EDIT: Also, I'd like to mention my thoughts of Windows 7 vs Windows 10 with a comparison. In CSGO Windows 7 I get a solid 299 fps, doesn't flicker, even in smoke. On Windows 10, it flickers between 240 - 299 (drops below 260 in smoke) or roughly 280 for firefights. This is with both systems as optimized as I can currently get them. Windows 7 being almost impossible to get any more tweaked, and Windows 10 has a long way to go.

Came across a post saying that *after you boot from Sleep / Hibernate etc,. Windows pings a few IP's* and I can't remember what data was collected / sent / retrieved but I think it was to do with your systems information, processor states that type of thing.

I'm starting to learn that Windows (even 7) is riddled with things behind the scenes.

I'm also starting to find an interest in Linux. A friend of mine says it's an absolute God send. Apparently the community works on updates / bug fixing / development / features which in turn makes it more efficient / effective / secure. (I'm not entirely sure about this though.)

I came across a neat lightweight program called "Spybot AntiBeacon" *which disables a bunch of elementary data etc*,.
Makes the process a little easier / streamlined.

https://i.imgur.com/RiPuxa2.png

On another note, Windows 7 Task Manager. Got it looking very minimal. *I wonder if I can make it even more bare bones?*


----------



## Gonzalez07

There are some powershell scripts that disable unnecessary apps and various other stuff. Definitely worth checking out if you are trying to optimize Windows 10. Debloat Windows 10. Another cool program I found is called ServicesSuite, it let's you import/export your services.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> There are some powershell scripts that disable unnecessary apps and various other stuff. Definitely worth checking out if you are trying to optimize Windows 10. Debloat Windows 10. Another cool program I found is called ServicesSuite, it let's you import/export your services.


How do you run those powershell scripts as adminstrator?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> EDIT: Also, I'd like to mention my thoughts of Windows 7 vs Windows 10 with a comparison. In CSGO Windows 7 I get a solid 299 fps, doesn't flicker, even in smoke. On Windows 10, it flickers between 240 - 299 (drops below 260 in smoke) or roughly 280 for firefights. This is with both systems as optimized as I can currently get them. Windows 7 being almost impossible to get any more tweaked, and Windows 10 has a long way to go.
> 
> Came across a post saying that *after you boot from Sleep / Hibernate etc,. Windows pings a few IP's* and I can't remember what data was collected / sent / retrieved but I think it was to do with your systems information, processor states that type of thing.
> 
> I'm starting to learn that Windows (even 7) is riddled with things behind the scenes.
> 
> I'm also starting to find an interest in Linux. A friend of mine says it's an absolute God send. Apparently the community works on updates / bug fixing / development / features which in turn makes it more efficient / effective / secure. (I'm not entirely sure about this though.)
> 
> I came across a neat lightweight program called "Spybot AntiBeacon" *which disables a bunch of elementary data etc*,.
> Makes the process a little easier / streamlined.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/RiPuxa2.png
> 
> On another note, Windows 7 Task Manager. Got it looking very minimal. *I wonder if I can make it even more bare bones?*


I benchmarked on both, Windows 7 I had ~430-450 fps via timedemo benchmark, Windows 10 I had 360-390fps. Disabled all the useless stuff as well. Maybe it was just a bad Windows 10 NVIDIA driver? I think Windows 7 is still better performance wise for CS:GO, at least on my hardware.


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I benchmarked on both, Windows 7 I had ~430-450 fps via timedemo benchmark, Windows 10 I had 360-390fps. Disabled all the useless stuff as well. Maybe it was just a bad Windows 10 NVIDIA driver? I think Windows 7 is still better performance wise for CS:GO, at least on my hardware.


I also still find win 7 better than win 10. Using both
Both passmark and firestrike tests gives me better scores in win 7


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> How do you run those powershell scripts as adminstrator?


you can run windows powershell ise as admin and just load in the scripts from there


----------



## erobuR

My watch has ended here.

Finally I could somehow by luck found out what was causing the problem in my system.
I have FX-8350 @Stock and 1600MHz LP Corsair rams along with Asus M5A99FX Pro.

I have always had massive input lag, especially in source games. Now with that fix, maybe it was my rams gone bad (already ordered a new one so I can tell you all if it was them) or maybe it was the memory controller of mainboard somehow.

When I was cleaning my pc from dust, I wanted to take of the second stick and go with single channel ram. As a result, input lag was not gone but got really low. But still it was not enabling me to play games competitively.

Then I tried to troubleshoot settings related to RAM, and after disableng DCT UNGANGED MODE setting in BIOS, voila!

I have no lag now. It is such an historical event for me that I can name that day and celebrate it every year as it took me months to find out what was that.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erobuR*
> 
> My watch has ended here.
> 
> Finally I could somehow by luck found out what was causing the problem in my system.
> I have FX-8350 @Stock and 1600MHz LP Corsair rams along with Asus M5A99FX Pro.
> 
> I have always had massive input lag, especially in source games. Now with that fix, maybe it was my rams gone bad (already ordered a new one so I can tell you all if it was them) or maybe it was the memory controller of mainboard somehow.
> 
> When I was cleaning my pc from dust, I wanted to take of the second stick and go with single channel ram. As a result, input lag was not gone but got really low. But still it was not enabling me to play games competitively.
> 
> Then I tried to troubleshoot settings related to RAM, and after disableng DCT UNGANGED MODE setting in BIOS, voila!
> 
> I have no lag now. It is such an historical event for me that I can name that day and celebrate it every year as it took me months to find out what was that.


What is "DCT UNGANGED MODE"? Also, isn't Dual Channel slightly better performance than single channel? I recall reading benchmarks on a tech site, and it was about 10-15% faster or something like that. I assume it's AMD only, since I haven't heard of a similar setting for my ASUS Z97-AR.


----------



## erobuR

Yes it is AMD only. It is a BIOS setting.


----------



## Curleyyy

NVIDIA "nvlddmkm.sys." Fix: - Found a way to reduce the footprint!!!!

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=406671

Use the tool from the link above, or edit your registry:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\<...>\0000]

There's a few keys and it's the one that has "0000" "0001" "0002" "0003"

Open the "0000" key and create 4x DWORD

PowerMizerEnable 0
PerfLevelSrc 3322
PowerMizerLevel 1
PowerMizerLevelAC 1





Mouse Movement Recorder: In-Game, Alt-tabbed, Barebones Desktop. -
When I swipe my mouse in game, it has lots of green/red, cursor movement is snappy on point, is this normal? polling rate seems stable










Task Manager: Barebones Desktop. - 21 processors on desktop! 780~ mb usage


Alt-tabbed. - normal usage i think


LatencyMon: Barebones Desktop. - is there anyway to lower "hal.dll" ISR count


LatencyMon: In-Game. - no dramas, low dpc in game, never noticed "ACPI.sys" before


LatencyMon: In-Game. - no dramas, low dpc in game


----------



## Lycronix

So I've gone through numerous forums to figure out the culprit of my system but so far to no avail.

Using DPC Latency Checker this is what I got: http://i.imgur.com/aadAtgf.png

Somehow no matter what I do, it never seems to exceed ~1000 (Only once I've gotten a spike of ~3000 for unknown reasons).

Here are the patterns I could make out: Upon system boot it usually spikes to 1000 until every autostart has completed. After that, when I just idle on desktop WITHOUT moving my mouse it stays at 5-15us. When I do move my mouse however it does the regular spike to 1000. Opening Chrome and having it selected as the ACTIVE WINDOW somehow spikes it to 1000us depending on how much I use the keyboard, just pressing the keyboard on the desktop doesn't seem to give me any spikes.

No matter where I am, moving my mouse always consistently spikes it to 1000.

Anything audio related (pressing a keyboard button and getting the windows ding on a window where that key has no function always spikes it to 500 CONSISTENTLY.

Now here's the weird part though. After I played a few seconds of music through spotify, the new lowest point seems to be 500 even after pausing the song, until I reboot.

Moving the mouse now first spikes me to around 1200 and when I keep moving it it goes back to a constant 1000.

Using LatencyMon confirms my findings: http://i.imgur.com/vnuG6xa.png By just letting it run for around 30 seconds while playing back a song on Spotify and consistently moving my mouse shows an enormous amount of DPC Counts on both the USBPORT.sys and HDAudBus.sys

Others seem to be failing quite a bit too but I'm pretty sure those 2 are the main issue here.

I've tried most of the things r0ach recommends in his post, except the one he seems to praise the most, BCLK, seems to reset for me the second I switch the config tab in the BIOS..

Right now I'm also running on the Windows graphics driver as I uninstalled all AMD components to boil down the error source. What I noticed is that even though when I forced Vsync off in the AMD drivers I still had no tearing on the desktop when moving different windows around. That tearing is now really noticeable without having the drivers installed. In cs:go I somehow also never got visible tearing but my fps weren't behaving like they would with Vsync (not locked to 60/144 fps) enabled..

EDIT: I just noticed while playing back music the latency is 500, but moving the mouse while it's playing no longer spikes to 1000...really weird. When I pause the music it seems to be fine for another 10 seconds after but then resumes to spike to 1000.

The DPC count on latencymon however still goes really fast up whenever I move it.


----------



## deepor

Last time I looked at it, you couldn't use the tool "DPC Latency Checker" in Windows 8 and later. It only worked correctly in Windows 7. That's perhaps still the case if the tool wasn't updated, and where those strange 1000µs results come from in your screenshot. You should only look at what "LatencyMon" says.

About your worry of DPC counts... one message from the mouse is one interrupt which queues one DPC (Deferred Procedure Call). Whenever you move it fast enough and if it's a gaming mouse and you've set it to 1000 Hz report rate, it will then produce 1000 DPC counts per second.


----------



## Lycronix

So what you're saying all this hunt to reduce DPC Latency and thus maybe input lag was a dead end since the issue resides somewhere else?

I really don't know what else could be causing this honestly...


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> NVIDIA "nvlddmkm.sys." Fix: - Found a way to reduce the footprint!!!!
> 
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=406671
> 
> Use the tool from the link above, or edit your registry:
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\<...>\0000]
> 
> There's a few keys and it's the one that has "0000" "0001" "0002" "0003"
> 
> Open the "0000" key and create 4x DWORD
> 
> PowerMizerEnable 0
> PerfLevelSrc 3322
> PowerMizerLevel 1
> PowerMizerLevelAC 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mouse Movement Recorder: In-Game, Alt-tabbed, Barebones Desktop. -
> When I swipe my mouse in game, it has lots of green/red, cursor movement is snappy on point, is this normal? polling rate seems stable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Task Manager: Barebones Desktop. - 21 processors on desktop! 780~ mb usage
> 
> 
> Alt-tabbed. - normal usage i think
> 
> 
> LatencyMon: Barebones Desktop. - is there anyway to lower "hal.dll" ISR count
> 
> 
> LatencyMon: In-Game. - no dramas, low dpc in game, never noticed "ACPI.sys" before
> 
> 
> LatencyMon: In-Game. - no dramas, low dpc in game


I disabled powermizer with regedit, and it completely fixed nvlddmkm.sys dpc spikes, thanks


----------



## Gonzalez07

PowerMizer is interesting. I think PerfLevelSrc should be 2222 though for desktops.

PerfLevelSrc=0x2222 - fixed PowerMizer mode (and appropriate fixed frequency) is used for battery power source and fixed PowerMizer mode is used for AC power source, these PowerMizer modes may be the same or different
PerfLevelSrc=0x2233 - fixed PowerMizer mode is used for battery power source and adaptive clock frequency strategy is used for AC power source
PerfLevelSrc=0x3322 - adaptive clock frequency strategy is used for battery power source and fixed PowerMizer mode is used for AC power source
PerfLevelSrc=0x3333 - adaptive clock frequency strategy is used for battery and AC power sources

another thing I dont get is
PowerMizerEnable 0

I noticed that nVidiaPowerMizerManager_v1.01 sets this to PowerMizerEnable 1 and it seems to crash my system. I mean, 0 should disable it? So not entirely sure why the program sets it to 1.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> I disabled powermizer with regedit, and it completely fixed nvlddmkm.sys dpc spikes, thanks


Only works on W7 though right!?


----------



## agsz

Isn't it only for laptop NVIDIA cards as well?


----------



## Curleyyy

Setting "PowerMizerEnable 1" hasn't crashed my system. I'm going to test which combination of settings create the lowest DPC timing when I wake up. Haven't read anything about it being pertained to Win7 only, just know it's used for power saving things on laptops, but as we can see it affects us too.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Setting "PowerMizerEnable 1" hasn't crashed my system. I'm going to test which combination of settings create the lowest DPC timing when I wake up. Haven't read anything about it being pertained to Win7 only, just know it's used for power saving things on laptops, but as we can see it affects us too.


What GPU do you have? I thought it only pertains to mobile GPU's.


----------



## Curleyyy

GTX 670


----------



## Gonzalez07

It changes the P-State, you can verify that with nvidia inspector


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> GTX 670


I'm pretty sure I've read about PowerMizer before, and couldn't find any registry settings regarding it. Does PowerMizer exist on only specific NVIDIA cards? I have a GTX 770.


----------



## deepor

I think it exists everywhere. It was also there on my GTX 560 Ti for example, and is there on my GTX 680. It's the name for the feature where the driver reduces the core and memory clocks when there's not enough work to do for the GPU, meaning, when there's no game running and you are on the desktop using a web browser and playing a video.


----------



## Curleyyy

by default the registry settings aren't created, gotta create them mnaually or use the program to create them for you then tweak accordingly.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> by default the registry settings aren't created, gotta create them mnaually or use the program to create them for you then tweak accordingly.


Is it simple to undo the powermizer tweaks, as if they were never done in the first place? I'm curious how much of a difference performance wise this makes, mainly because in NVIDIA Inspector, the 'Fixed Performance Level' is the same, I'm pretty sure. Profile 0 in nvidia Insepctor I think.


----------



## agsz

@Curleyyy do you have a link to download it? The site recommended on the guru3d thread via Google Search, doesn't work


----------



## Curleyyy

DL Link: It's on that website but I couldn't remember which download button it was so reuploaded it.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/gy6vja

Found this thread:
http://www.overclock.net/t/683583/how-to-adjust-nvidias-powermizer/0_100


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> DL Link: It's on that website but I couldn't remember which download button it was so reuploaded it.
> https://www.sendspace.com/file/gy6vja
> 
> Found this thread:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/683583/how-to-adjust-nvidias-powermizer/0_100


Thanks man. Just curious, have you benchmarked in CS:GO since you started using PowerMizer? Or notice anything resembling better performance?


----------



## Curleyyy

Can't say I've noticed a difference, other than the image below. I've read a few comments saying it helped reduce microstuttering, although I haven't had that issue.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Can't say I've noticed a difference, other than the image below. I've read a few comments saying it helped reduce microstuttering, although I haven't had that issue.


Hopefully this doesn't sound ******ed (haven't been on my gaming PC in ~5-6 months, so I'm rusty and feel PC illiterate at the moment), but all I do is install NVIDIA PowerMizer, and use your settings?


----------



## Curleyyy

Going through the settings now.

- The "highest execution" count for "nvlddmkm.sys." seems to go up with more load.
- For example: on desktop with a few programs open it might be on 0.3, then when I open a game it goes to 1.2.
- You can also see a variation between each restart.
- Each test I'll restart and do three times each.
- Make note that I've reset all my services to default which could hinder results a tad.

*Test #1*
Desktop: 0.366930
Game: 1.214235

Desktop: 0.364133
Game: 1.234171

Desktop: 0.381642
Game: 1.206852

D: average = 0.370901
G: average = 1.218419


PerfLevelSrc x2222
PowerMizerEnable x1
PowerMizerLevel x1
PowermizerLevelAC x1

*Test #2*
Desktop: 0.395969
Game: 1.206852

Desktop: 0.387692
Game: 1.223548

Desktop: 0.374638
Game: 1.208683

D: average = 0.386099
G: average = 1.213027


PerfLevelSrc x2222
PowerMizerEnable x0
PowerMizerLevel x0
PowermizerLevelAC x0

*Test #3*
Delete PowerMizer registry options.

Desktop: 0.355407
Game: 1.206950

Desktop: 0.364078
Game: 1.206819

Desktop: 0.371453
Game: 1.19780

D: average = 0.363646
G: average = 1.203856


PerfLevelSrc ----
PowerMizerEnable ----
PowerMizerLevel ----
PowermizerLevelAC ----

*Test #4*
Desktop: 0.108758 ?????
Game: 1.210053

Desktop: 0.457757
Game: 1.204195

Desktop: 0.460141
Game: 1.240425

D: average = 0.342218
G: average = 1.218224


PerfLevelSrc x3322
PowerMizerEnable x0
PowerMizerLevel x1
PowermizerLevelAC x1

*Test #5*
Desktop: 0.370250
Game: 1.204016

Desktop: 0.509243
Game: 1.206743

Desktop: 0.497897
Game: 1.210148

D: average = 0.45913
G: average = 1.206969


PerfLevelSrc x2222
PowerMizerEnable x0
PowerMizerLevel x1
PowermizerLevelAC x1


----------



## Gonzalez07

Thanks for testing them out Curleyyy. Any chance you could do #4 except with PerfLevelSrc x2222


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> Thanks for testing them out Curleyyy. Any chance you could do #4 except with PerfLevelSrc x2222


Updated previous post with new results.


----------



## Curleyyy

I've been informed that the constant 1.2 you see is caused by the alt tab, when doing the test in window mode it hovers much lower.

I'll need to redo the tests later.


----------



## deepor

A thing you could do is make a note of the "dpc count" and "total execution" numbers in your tests. When you divide "total execution" by "dpc count", you get the average processing time used for a single dpc event. The result might be interesting. It could give a hint about how rare those dpc that cause a bad "highest execution time" are with the different tweaks.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Sorry to say this, but that data is useless, so don't waste your time. The PowerMizer max performance settings are worth doing however.


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Sorry to say this, but that data is useless, so don't waste your time. The PowerMizer max performance settings are worth doing however.


That's unfortunate :c


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> A thing you could do is make a note of the "dpc count" and "total execution" numbers in your tests. When you divide "total execution" by "dpc count", you get the average processing time used for a single dpc event. The result might be interesting. It could give a hint about how rare those dpc that cause a bad "highest execution time" are with the different tweaks.


Really find it a shame dpc latency checker doesn't work on later os's. It's really a lot easier to correctly assess dpc performance on a machine as opposed to latmon, given it shows a graph over time and not just what happens at any given time and max.


----------



## sndri

Powermizer is only on laptops right? no need to do this on a desktop?


----------



## Curleyyy

Has an effect on desktop, I'm not sure how to measure it though.


----------



## lurker2501

Any tutorial updates for Windows 10 Pro Anniversary patch?


----------



## agsz

Has anyone come across any testing data regarding xHCI Enabled vs Disabled? Only difference seems to be xHCI Enabled == Doesn't poll constantly, but I can't find any data comparing the two.


----------



## MaFi0s0

This guide needs to be redone, the OP has some bad mistakes.

Execute bit is needed for security.

Bandwidth > timings for gaming at least now, check my most recent RAM review for the particulars.


----------



## Curleyyy

Execute bit is used to prevent attacks, yes. AFAIK it's description states for use with specific OS's.

On another note, is there anything worthwhile changing in GPEDIT.msc (Windows 7 Home 64)

- Source: Enabled VIA
http://www.askvg.com/how-to-enable-group-policy-editor-gpedit-msc-in-windows-7-home-premium-home-basic-and-starter-editions/

EDIT: Found stuff.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

I use Windows 10 for year or so, and all the time I had a feel that something is wrong with my mouse. Few days ago I decided to try to play CS:GO on Windows 7 and I was shocked how mouse movement has been changed. DPC latency was also better and stable than in Windows 10.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







So, I just can't play CS:GO on Windows 10 anymore.

Now I'm curious is there any difference in mouse movement between Windows 7 and 8.1.


----------



## PurpleChef

Did you try 7 vs 8.1 yet?


----------



## cimi

Hi guys,

I have big big problem.I just bought skylake platform,i was using amd before.
Im big fan of csgo,but i have horible problem with mouse lag in game.
In win10 mouse works perfect but in csgo i have big lag,it feels like i have mouse accel.

Can you give me quidelines for skylake platform and settings in bios to fix this problem.

I think im going crazy.I used win10 on amd and csgo worked perfect but now on skylake my mouse feels like on ice,floaty.

Im really dont know what to do more.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Did you try 7 vs 8.1 yet?


Not yet, but gonna do it soon.


----------



## Curleyyy

Latest NVIDIA driver is causing display driver crashes and laggy text.

Got me wondering, has anyone tested a bunch of drivers for lowest latency etc?


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Latest NVIDIA driver is causing display driver crashes and laggy text.
> 
> Got me wondering, has anyone tested a bunch of drivers for lowest latency etc?


I personally found 347.25 the best.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Awak3n1ng*
> 
> Not yet, but gonna do it soon.


Im on W10 now, think about trying 7 or 8.1 again, but not sure. Ppl seems to like 8.1. Since theres no DX12 games i play im not sure why i did install w10.
Only reason i could think of is better Windowed fullscreen performande in 10 vs 7?

What u guys think, 7, 8 or 10 for gaming & music production?

Latency is low and stable polling atm in w10 but idk...


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

So, I installed and configured Windows 8.1. Mouse movement is different again. It's far away from Windows 7 and is almost the same like Windows 10 but a little bit better. Will test some more later.

*@PurpleChef*
I don't see any reason to switch from Windows 10 to 8.1 cause 10 is improved 8.1 + some changes. But if you play CS:GO mainly, you definitely should try Windows 7. I split my SSD and have 2 versions of Windows installed on 2 different partitions. Since it's less than 20 secs to switch from one OS to another there is the best option for me to use Windows 7 for CS:GO and Windows 10 for everything else.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Awak3n1ng*
> 
> *@PurpleChef*
> I don't see any reason to switch from Windows 10 to 8.1 cause 10 is improved 8.1 + some changes.


They are very very different, Win 8.1 is a lot more trustworthy and reliable.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> They are very very different, Win 8.1 is a lot more trustworthy and reliable.


How come? Whats better in 8.1 then 7/10 u feel?

Using W7 atm and it feels so lightweight







So few processes runing compared to W10.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> How come? Whats better in 8.1 then 7/10 u feel?
> 
> Using W7 atm and it feels so lightweight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So few processes runing compared to W10.


There are some multitasking improvements over 7, I think I remember hearing some dx11 improvements but unsure.
And it doesnt have the lack of control that windows 10 does. I can see myself happily using it in 2018 or 2020 when extended support ends for win7.

The only reason I wouldnt use 8.1 is if an EU version of win10 comes out due to pressure from france over privacy.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Latest NVIDIA driver is causing display driver crashes and laggy text.
> 
> Got me wondering, has anyone tested a bunch of drivers for lowest latency etc?


How would one properly test the latency for each nvidia driver?


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> This guide needs to be redone, the OP has some bad mistakes.
> 
> Execute bit is needed for security.
> 
> Bandwidth > timings for gaming at least now, check my most recent RAM review for the particulars.


link?


----------



## cimi

Hi can someone help me with problem.Cos i can't fix it.I tried everything.

Can you tell me what to turn on/off in bios for 1:1 mouse movement?

Im playing CS GO.And i had perfect mouse control untill i instaled Skylake platform.

Im loosing mine mind,last 2 week's im trying to solve this issue.

My mouse feels like on ice like i have vsync on(its off).

Plz help







i stoped playing game cos i cant hit even bot


----------



## MaFi0s0

Google "Mark C mouse fix" make sure your pointer speed is 6/11.
Try changing USB ports, I use an Intel 2.0 port for my mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> link?


http://www.overclock.net/products/g-skill-ripjaws-v-f4-3600c17q-16gvk-4x4gb-3600mhz-quad-channel/reviews/7328
You can skip everything and just go to the bottom Image for the results.


----------



## PurpleChef

Isnt mousefix for w7 only? thought they fixed it with some windows updates


----------



## MaFi0s0

That probably explains why I feel it didnt do much if anything at all unlike the first time I used it ages ago.

There is a Windows 8,1 and 10 version.


----------



## deepor

Old games used the data from the Windows mouse pointer instead of "raw" mouse data. Some old games based on the original Quake engine enabled Windows "enhanced pointer precision" for some reason. The MarkC mouse fix tweaks the registry so the "enhanced pointer precision" Windows setting has no acceleration. You don't need this fix for modern games using "raw" mouse input instead of the data from the Windows mouse pointer, and additionally for old games you only need it for some of them like CS 1.6.


----------



## MaFi0s0

It helped on the desktop too IIRC


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> It helped on the desktop too IIRC


Double post, can't remove one of them


----------



## PurpleChef

The mouse movement in W7 felt better then 8.1 & 10. Thats about the only thing better lol. Trash W7







<3


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> The mouse movement in W7 felt better then 8.1 & 10. Thats about the only thing better lol. Trash W7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <3


I tried Windows 10 and really didn't like it, I could never debloat it because windows update would reset so much every time even if I write protected settings.
When I do end up using Win 10 I would personally need to pay someone to code me an automation script for a lot of settings at each boot.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

On Windows 7 I installed USB 3.0 drivers and connected my mouse to 3.0 port. Mouse movement has been changed a lot, it was pretty close to Windows 8.1/10!

So, I'm not sure, but I think the "problem" is that Windows 8.1/10 uses USB 3.0 xHCI for *all* devices by default, even if they're not connected to 3.0 port, while Windows 7 uses USB 2.0 eHCI by default and USB 3.0 xHCI for devices that connected to 3.0 port.

Does any one know how to force Windows 8.1/10 to use 2.0 EHCI by default?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> The mouse movement in W7 felt better then 8.1 & 10. Thats about the only thing better lol. Trash W7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <3


Yeah, I agree.


----------



## deepor

The mouse was always using the USB 2.0 controller for me in Windows 8.1. I don't think it's actually possible to make the USB 3.0 controller talk to the mouse. I see the same in Linux. When I move the mouse around and look at the interrupts there, the interrupts get counted for the EHCI device, not for the XHCI one. It doesn't matter if I connect to a USB 3.0 port or not.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The mouse was always using the USB 2.0 controller for me in Windows 8.1.


Good for you then. But for me...


Spoiler: Windows 7









Spoiler: Windows 8.1/10






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I don't think it's actually possible to make the USB 3.0 controller talk to the mouse. I see the same in Linux. When I move the mouse around and look at the interrupts there, the interrupts get counted for the EHCI device, not for the XHCI one. It doesn't matter if I connect to a USB 3.0 port or not.


Noone is talking about that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It doesn't matter if I connect to a USB 3.0 port or not.


When you connect your mouse to USB 3.0 port, does Windows device manager show your mouse connected to xHCI (3.0) or still eHCI (2.0)?


----------



## deepor

I checked it out in the Windows 10 I have installed here, and it's the same as what you show in your second screenshot. When I connect the mouse to a USB3.0 port, it shows up under the XHCI controller in the Device Manager.

I also checked out what's happening in the LatencyMon in the driver's tab, and over there it still seems to fire interrupts for the USB 1.1 & 2.0 driver if I connect to a USB 3.0 port (I moved the mouse around a lot and looked at how the numbers in the interrupt column increase).


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Any difference in mouse movement? Not "numbers", just how you feel it -- is it someway different or the same?


----------



## deepor

I can't really tell anything. I didn't play enough in Windows 10. In Windows 8.1, things were fine, but I had always connected my mouse through a USB 2.0 port of the board so never played with what you are talking about (the mouse entry being under the XHCI controller in that tree view of the Device Manager).


----------



## Gonzalez07

I like how usb 3.0 is defaulted to msi mode. i dont think it matters though, and to be honest I cant tell the difference between usb 2.0 and 3.0.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> I like how usb 3.0 is defaulted to msi mode. i dont think it matters though, and to be honest I cant tell the difference between usb 2.0 and 3.0.


Yeah, that's why I had looked into this in the past. I wanted to try to use my mouse with MSI instead of IRQ, because it was basically the last device in the PC that used IRQ. Everything else I had switched over to MSI (the disk controller, the network controller, the graphics card). It seems it's just not possible. Even if the mouse shows up under the USB 3.0 controller in the Device Manager, it will still not use MSI. It seems like the USB 2.0 controller takes over and works with the mouse, and it does IRQ like normal, as if the mouse is not connected to a USB 3.0 port.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Yeah, that's why I had looked into this in the past. I wanted to try to use my mouse with MSI instead of IRQ, because it was basically the last device in the PC that used IRQ. Everything else I had switched over to MSI (the disk controller, the network controller, the graphics card). It seems it's just not possible. Even if the mouse shows up under the USB 3.0 controller in the Device Manager, it will still not use MSI. It seems like the USB 2.0 controller takes over and works with the mouse, and it does IRQ like normal, as if the mouse is not connected to a USB 3.0 port.


Are you using Windows 7 with no USB driver installed? I used USB 3.0 forever, but now just uninstall drivers since it's stupid how certain drivers can negatively impact how your mouse feels.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Awak3n1ng*
> 
> On Windows 7 I installed USB 3.0 drivers and connected my mouse to 3.0 port. Mouse movement has been changed a lot, it was pretty close to Windows 8.1/10!
> 
> So, I'm not sure, but I think the "problem" is that Windows 8.1/10 uses USB 3.0 xHCI for *all* devices by default, even if they're not connected to 3.0 port, while Windows 7 uses USB 2.0 eHCI by default and USB 3.0 xHCI for devices that connected to 3.0 port.
> 
> Does any one know how to force Windows 8.1/10 to use 2.0 EHCI by default?
> Yeah, I agree.


I could be wrong because but its possibly in the BIOS for win7 support, the setting that allows you to install windows 7 usb drivers.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> I could be wrong because but its possibly in the BIOS for win7 support, the setting that allows you to install windows 7 usb drivers.


He'd want to disable Intel xHCI Support, then again I'm not quite sure about Windows 8.1/10. I thought most people said mice felt better on Windows 7, but it seems like he's trying to replicate the Windows 8.1/10 feeling?


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> He'd want to disable Intel xHCI Support, then again I'm not quite sure about Windows 8.1/10. I thought most people said mice felt better on Windows 7, but it seems like he's trying to replicate the Windows 8.1/10 feeling?


I try to replicate Windows 7 mouse feeling on Windows 8.1/10.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Awak3n1ng*
> 
> I try to replicate Windows 7 mouse feeling on Windows 8.1/10.


Ah, I got it backwards lol.


----------



## MaFi0s0

xHCI Hand off Should be on in Win7. According to an intel engineer. This is for usb3.0 https://communities.intel.com/thread/52421

eHCI should be off. This is for USB 2.0.

Use the mouse in the 2.0 port on any OS.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> xHCI Hand off Should be on in Win7. According to an intel engineer. This is for usb3.0 https://communities.intel.com/thread/52421
> 
> eHCI should be off. This is for USB 2.0.
> 
> Use the mouse in the 2.0 port on any OS.


I figured since he's on Windows 8.1/10, xHCI is controlling his USB 2.0 ports as well, so disabling xHCI would prevent that. I might be mistaken, I'm a bit rusty on this subject at the moment.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I figured since he's on Windows 8.1/10, xHCI is controlling his USB 2.0 ports as well


Sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> so disabling xHCI would prevent that.


Unfortunately, not.








At this momment xHCI and eHCI are disabled in BIOS. Tried to keep eHCI enabled -- it changed nothing.


----------



## cimi

Guys plzzz help...I really don't know what to do more.
I installed w10 couple times,disable all devices,turn on/off multiple things in bios.
I love playing CSGO,but now mine game is ruined(((...
It feels like i have vsync or mouse accel(i dont)....
I have Skylake platform...My dpc on desktop is around 7 all the time but sometimes spike to 1000...
When i start csgo its all the time over 500.

Who help me fix this problem i will donate 10eur for his time..
Im desperate i want to enjoj game again


----------



## IaVoR

Why not install Win7 or 8 if 10 gives you trouble with csgo?


----------



## cimi

I tired win7 via usb but no luck,cos you cant install on Skylake w7 via usb.And mine dvd/rw is dead
I don't like w8...
Windows 10 was working perfect on AMD platform but as soon i instaled Intel platform my mouse in Steam games becomes floaty like insted pad im using ice.
I like w10 but something is giving me big problems


----------



## IaVoR

If no one can help you, best bet would be new sata dvd


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> I tired win7 via usb but no luck,cos you cant install on Skylake w7 via usb.And mine dvd/rw is dead
> I don't like w8...
> Windows 10 was working perfect on AMD platform but as soon i instaled Intel platform my mouse in *Steam games becomes floaty like insted pad im using ice.*
> I like w10 but something is giving me big problems


I'm not sure if I'm picturing your issue there but sometimes when I play CSGO my mouse feels way more sensitive, but not more sensitive... It feels like I'm holding a lighter grip on the mouse and that it absolutely flies across the pad without resistance. In game, it feels really weird, foreign and strange; which might give you the sensation of it not meant to be happening.

You say it happened when you installed the "Intel Platform"

For me, it happens once or twice within the first 3 days of a reinstall, and then never again.

I reinstall Windows constantly as I'm tweaking stuff though I haven't taken notice of when it exactly comes into effect (to find out what service/program might be creating that effect, if that is at all what's happening, which I have an inkling it is. Though I can't say I noticed it when I installed Windows 10 last month, though when I went back to 7, it presented again.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> ,cos you cant install on Skylake w7 via usb.


https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=261560.0

This will work with any brand motherboard, it worked on my NUC (better than intels tool)

I might start messing around with Windows 10 again and I will try find whats causing this because I have heard other people have problems with their mouse.


----------



## cimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> I'm not sure if I'm picturing your issue there but sometimes when I play CSGO my mouse feels way more sensitive, but not more sensitive... It feels like I'm holding a lighter grip on the mouse and that it absolutely flies across the pad without resistance. In game, it feels really weird, foreign and strange; which might give you the sensation of it not meant to be happening.
> 
> You say it happened when you installed the "Intel Platform"
> 
> For me, it happens once or twice within the first 3 days of a reinstall, and then never again.
> 
> I reinstall Windows constantly as I'm tweaking stuff though I haven't taken notice of when it exactly comes into effect (to find out what service/program might be creating that effect, if that is at all what's happening, which I have an inkling it is. Though I can't say I noticed it when I installed Windows 10 last month, though when I went back to 7, it presented again.


100% that feeling,like i dont have any resistance when moving mouse on pad..But only in game,in win10 desktop everyting is perfect...I mesure dpc on desktop is around 7-11,and in csgo all the tinme 500.

I think i tried everyting,turn on/off,disable/enable

@MaFi0s0 ty i will try it...Im a bit sad cos i like win10,i wanted to stay on w10,but i cant find solution


----------



## cimi

Nooooo.I just finished instaling w7.And feeling in csgo is the same(((.
So its defently some issue with Skylake.Some setting in bios.

Can some one tell me what to disabel in Z170 motherboard?

I hate mine pc


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Nooooo.I just finished instaling w7.And feeling in csgo is the same(((.
> So its defently some issue with Skylake.Some setting in bios.
> 
> Can some one tell me what to disabel in Z170 motherboard?
> 
> I hate mine pc


Disable:

C-States
Turbo boost / EIST whatever its called
Set CPU VCore etc to a static value (the one bios is showing currently)
USB 3
All other stuff u dont use, onboard audio etc

Try diffrent drivers
Turn of Vsync
Set fps_max value to 999
Try rawinput 0 / 1 (alternative use SourceGL for rawinput)
Try do disable soundcard etc one at a time to find the bad guy
Disable all usb controllers / audiodevices etc that u dont use in Device manager
Install Win 8.1


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Nooooo.I just finished instaling w7.And feeling in csgo is the same(((.
> So its defently some issue with Skylake.Some setting in bios.
> 
> Can some one tell me what to disabel in Z170 motherboard?
> 
> I hate mine pc


Use a USB 2.0 port, run Mark C windows fix.

If Mark C doesnt help, try a different mouse. I suggest a Logitech G303 with no software or drivers.

Your sensitivity should be 6/11 not 7/11.

If you do go back to Windows 10, dont install on top of 7, just reformat.


----------



## softskiller

@cimi which mouse do you use?


----------



## rivage

Legit question though, is using a 2.0 USB port really mandatory dpc-latency wise (for mice) ?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Legit question though, is using a 2.0 USB port really mandatory dpc-latency wise (for mice) ?


Meh, honestly zero difference. Only reason I don't use USB 3.0 (I uninstall the drivers now, rather than disable Intel xHCI Controller), is because certain drivers can change how your mouse feels, via Windows 7 Ultimate. I forget the key difference, I think USB 2.0 only polls when you move the mouse, and USB 3.0 polls 24/7, I might have them mixed up though.


----------



## sadman

hi guys,
after having a strange mousefeeling over the last 4 years i changed a lot hardware and tried a lot of settings/"tweaks".
as you can guess i passionately play fps-games (cs:go in my case). since none of these changes brought the wanted effect, i just accepted that im bad.

recently i used three other computers and those felt more responsive - ingame and even already on the desktop.
the game felt much more responsive/synchronized/fluid than on my computer, even though they are worse performance-wise.
the mouse doesnt feel as precise and snappy but i dont know if its actually the mouseinput or the graphical output which is delayed...

my setup:
i7 2600
palit gtx 660ti (non jetstream)
asus z68m usb 3.0 / h61 mainboard
8 gb quality ram
sandisk ssd
benq xl2411z (144hz/tried all settings)
logitech g303 (no driver/100hz)
win 7 x64
latencymon: results are 40-150 µs with the usual nvidia-spikes

hardware i changed:
mainboard
ram
ssd
mice (very many high quality mice)
mousepads
different displays (even crt 120+hz)
psu

stuff i tried:
different gpu-drivers
different chipset/usb drivers
different bios-versions
parked/unparked cores
display/gpu scaling (feels different, both ****ty though)
disabled all c-states
disabled speedstep/turbo
overclocked cpu
disabled a lot of services in windows
windows 7 / 8.1 / 10
disabled usb 3.0 / installed windows without drivers
disabled hpet (bios and windows all combinations / hpet bios [off] windows default feels most reactive, though less consistent than bios [on] and overall still bad)
disabled all kind of bios-features (hyperthreading, external ports, thermal throttling, spread spectrum and and and and)
disabled network + sound
msi modes
windows power modes
all kind of anti-malware software
all kind of cs:go settings / clean install and so on

does anyone have an idea how to help me?
i always read that cpu and gpu either work or don't. is there any way that those components are faulty even though they "work"?

i am grateful for every help!
thank you


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sadman*
> 
> hi guys,
> after having a strange mousefeeling over the last 4 years i changed a lot hardware and tried a lot of settings/"tweaks".
> as you can guess i passionately play fps-games (cs:go in my case). since none of these changes brought the wanted effect, i just accepted that im bad.
> 
> recently i used three other computers and those felt more responsive - ingame and even already on the desktop.
> the game felt much more responsive/synchronized/fluid than on my computer, even though they are worse performance-wise.
> the mouse doesnt feel as precise and snappy but i dont know if its actually the mouseinput or the graphical output which is delayed...
> 
> my setup:
> i7 2600
> palit gtx 660ti (non jetstream)
> asus z68m usb 3.0 / h61 mainboard
> 8 gb quality ram
> sandisk ssd
> benq xl2411z (144hz/tried all settings)
> logitech g303 (no driver/100hz)
> win 7 x64
> latencymon: results are 40-150 µs with the usual nvidia-spikes
> 
> hardware i changed:
> mainboard
> ram
> ssd
> mice (very many high quality mice)
> mousepads
> different displays (even crt 120+hz)
> psu
> 
> stuff i tried:
> different gpu-drivers
> different chipset/usb drivers
> different bios-versions
> parked/unparked cores
> display/gpu scaling (feels different, both ****ty though)
> disabled all c-states
> disabled speedstep/turbo
> overclocked cpu
> disabled a lot of services in windows
> windows 7 / 8.1 / 10
> disabled usb 3.0 / installed windows without drivers
> disabled hpet (bios and windows all combinations / hpet bios [off] windows default feels most reactive, though less consistent than bios [on] and overall still bad)
> disabled all kind of bios-features (hyperthreading, external ports, thermal throttling, spread spectrum and and and and)
> disabled network + sound
> msi modes
> windows power modes
> all kind of anti-malware software
> all kind of cs:go settings / clean install and so on
> 
> does anyone have an idea how to help me?
> i always read that cpu and gpu either work or don't. is there any way that those components are faulty even though they "work"?
> 
> i am grateful for every help!
> thank you


Then i think its in your head. U basiclly switched it all out under 4 years of time, and its the same?

Try to change apartment/house


----------



## PurpleChef

2x Post again, smh, dunno how its even possible...








Btw Win 8.1 with tweaks is amazing. Mouse couldn't feel better tbh


----------



## sadman

a lot of these changes made minor differences. but the major difference to other systems still remained.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Meh, honestly zero difference. Only reason I don't use USB 3.0 (I uninstall the drivers now, rather than disable Intel xHCI Controller), is because certain drivers can change how your mouse feels, via Windows 7 Ultimate. I forget the key difference, I think USB 2.0 only polls when you move the mouse, and USB 3.0 polls 24/7, I might have them mixed up though.


Using mouse movement recorder they both seem to poll the same.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sadman*
> 
> hi guys,
> after having a strange mousefeeling over the last 4 years i changed a lot hardware and tried a lot of settings/"tweaks".
> as you can guess i passionately play fps-games (cs:go in my case). since none of these changes brought the wanted effect, i just accepted that im bad.
> 
> recently i used three other computers and those felt more responsive - ingame and even already on the desktop.
> the game felt much more responsive/synchronized/fluid than on my computer, even though they are worse performance-wise.
> the mouse doesnt feel as precise and snappy but i dont know if its actually the mouseinput or the graphical output which is delayed...
> 
> my setup:
> i7 2600
> palit gtx 660ti (non jetstream)
> asus z68m usb 3.0 / h61 mainboard
> 8 gb quality ram
> sandisk ssd
> benq xl2411z (144hz/tried all settings)
> logitech g303 (no driver/100hz)
> win 7 x64
> latencymon: results are 40-150 µs with the usual nvidia-spikes
> 
> hardware i changed:
> mainboard
> ram
> ssd
> mice (very many high quality mice)
> mousepads
> different displays (even crt 120+hz)
> psu
> 
> stuff i tried:
> different gpu-drivers
> different chipset/usb drivers
> different bios-versions
> parked/unparked cores
> display/gpu scaling (feels different, both ****ty though)
> disabled all c-states
> disabled speedstep/turbo
> overclocked cpu
> disabled a lot of services in windows
> windows 7 / 8.1 / 10
> disabled usb 3.0 / installed windows without drivers
> disabled hpet (bios and windows all combinations / hpet bios [off] windows default feels most reactive, though less consistent than bios [on] and overall still bad)
> disabled all kind of bios-features (hyperthreading, external ports, thermal throttling, spread spectrum and and and and)
> disabled network + sound
> msi modes
> windows power modes
> all kind of anti-malware software
> all kind of cs:go settings / clean install and so on
> 
> does anyone have an idea how to help me?
> i always read that cpu and gpu either work or don't. is there any way that those components are faulty even though they "work"?
> 
> i am grateful for every help!
> thank you


Try add DWM.exe and Explorer.exe to program settings in nvidia and turn off vsync and power management for them both.

Anti-Virus usually isnt disabled until you uninstall it, a lot will run when exited or in safe mode.


----------



## softskiller

@sadman maybe it's your 660ti and the GTX 600 architecture.

I switched to a RX 480 from a GTX 670 last week and it feels way more responsive.
I always felt lag with the GTX 670 even on low settings and with very high framerates.

Also compared to my old R9 270X.

Did you also look if there is a VBIOS update for your card on the manufacturers website?
For mine there were several, including UEFI firmware - felt all different but all bad.


----------



## PurpleChef

Are you guys using any security software? if so, what and why?

Only been using windows firewall with "Windows Firewall Control" program to block outgoing connections etc

Haven't had any problems, AFAIK









Want as few runing processes as allways.

DWM.exe and Explorer.exe no need to touch if no problem, right? amd


----------



## MaFi0s0

DWM and Explorer just contain a hidden profile that makes it so your card runs at a low clock speed on the desktop, it saves a lot of power but thats about it.
Im actually thinking of putting them back to power saving mode for electricity.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Btw Win 8.1 with tweaks is amazing. Mouse couldn't feel better tbh


Yep, I use it to play CS:GO. Somehow (really don't know








) I've got mouse movement similar to Windows 7.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I switched to a RX 480 from a GTX 670 last week and it feels way more responsive.
> I always felt lag with the GTX 670 even on low settings and with very high framerates.
> 
> Also compared to my old R9 270X.


It's not first time when I hear that AMD GPUs has less input lag. I have GTX 660 Ti also... Probably need to switch to AMD.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Awak3n1ng*
> 
> Yep, I use it to play CS:GO. Somehow (really don't know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I've got mouse movement similar to Windows 7.
> It's not first time when I hear that AMD GPUs has less input lag. I have GTX 660 Ti also... Probably need to switch to AMD.


Thats interesting, is it for certain that its a hardware thing and not the drivers or Geforce Experience crap?


----------



## Gonzalez07

didnt really want to upgrade from 7 to 10 but after tweaking it and disabling a crap load of stuff I actually like it now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> @sadman maybe it's your 660ti and the GTX 600 architecture.
> 
> I switched to a RX 480 from a GTX 670 last week and it feels way more responsive.
> I always felt lag with the GTX 670 even on low settings and with very high framerates.
> 
> Also compared to my old R9 270X.
> 
> Did you also look if there is a VBIOS update for your card on the manufacturers website?
> For mine there were several, including UEFI firmware - felt all different but all bad.


wonder if thats true. i had a 760(Kepler same as your 670) and upgraded to a 980ti and it felt way more responsive with the same fps. i dont have any proof I just know I was hitting a lot more stuff easily. card failed on me so I just ordered a 1070 thats on the way


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Are you guys using any security software? if so, what and why?
> 
> Only been using windows firewall with "Windows Firewall Control" program to block outgoing connections etc
> 
> Haven't had any problems, AFAIK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want as few runing processes as allways.
> 
> DWM.exe and Explorer.exe no need to touch if no problem, right? amd


I tested Nod 32 v9 Antivirus with WebProtection disabled - Works perfectly fine
On laptop I'm using Avira Antivirus Pro with all protection - Works Perfectly fine

I'm testing to see if Avira is better than Nod because Nod has some high DPC issues with it's Real-Time scanner and you can't use the WebProtection with Nod because it really bring the DPC to death numbers.


----------



## alexander1986

hi all, recently bought some new parts for computer and reinstalled windows 10 clean install, after this my logitech g400s feels way less responsive/direct than it did before reinstalling windows,

only parts that are replaced are gfx card and disk, current specs:

i5-3470
gtx 1060 6gb
8gb ddr3
asus p8h61 pro motherboard
480 gb toshiba ssd disk
asus vg248qe monitor @ 120hz lightboost

on the usb ports i have connected:

logitech g400s mouse @ 500hz @ 800 dpi

random usb keyboard

xbox360 gamepad

running latency mon i have lowest us around 8 and highest is around 120 for nvidia driver and windows network driver (i think, can update with screenshots later , right now at work ) , a lot of pagefaults though, is this good? average? bad? pagefaults do they matter in this case?

anyway before the reinstall my mouse felt *flawless* honestly, was so happy with it! now it feels slightly more heavy/less snappy, it gets worse if i install logitech drivers, they also add some dpc latency, so running without drivers for now, weird things is before reinstalling i was using logitech drivers and it felt better than now without them :S

mouse settings 6/11 speed, no precision enabled,

in nvidia drivers (368.95) ive set pre rendered frames to 1 , vsync off, threaded optimization is automatic,

so, what I would like to know is, with my motherboard and other hardware, what would you recommend I do first, and do you want me to test some stuff and show screenshots here? like latency mon, mousetester etc?

Can i disable those C-states ive read about on my cpu/motherboard? currently using high performance power plan in win10, should i disable any services in win10 like defender and so on?
should I try all things in this thread on my comp? = http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware

should I get ps2 keyboard instead of usb, and disconnect xbox gamepad when not using it?

sorry for a bit confusing and spammy post, but basically any and all help to get lower dpc and more snappy mouse is appreciated!


----------



## deepor

Page faults are normally nothing to worry about. The operating systems nowadays have a scheme where programs can ask for file contents to show up and magically be mirrored somewhere in memory. This then uses the same "virtual memory" scheme that's also used with the page-file for when RAM runs out. The CPU is made to run into those "hard page faults" when it tries to look into those spots of memory that are supposed to mirror the file contents. The latency for "hard page faults" looks bad because, to service those, the disk has to be accessed and the disk is slow. That's not bad or good, it's just like it is.

The gamepad for me fires a bunch of interrupts non-stop even when I don't touch it. In that sense it's a bit different from the keyboard and mouse as those only seem to do a lot of interrupts when I touch them. I disconnect the gamepad. My keyboard has a PS/2 adapter and I use it.

C-states I'm undecided about as it seems Windows 10 is perhaps weird. In the past I liked disabling C1E state and keeping C3, C6, etc. enabled. The C1E thingy is related to the CPU running slow for a while when waking up, meaning for example 1600MHz, while C3 etc. are about completely cutting power to a core when it has nothing to do, which is where most power saving comes from. That's nice for lower temperatures on the desktop. I felt it didn't do anything bad on Windows 7 and 8 and Linux, but I don't know about Windows 10.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> @sadman maybe it's your 660ti and the GTX 600 architecture.
> 
> I switched to a RX 480 from a GTX 670 last week and it feels way more responsive.
> I always felt lag with the GTX 670 even on low settings and with very high framerates.
> 
> Also compared to my old R9 270X.
> 
> Did you also look if there is a VBIOS update for your card on the manufacturers website?
> For mine there were several, including UEFI firmware - felt all different but all bad.


I've heard that AMD GPU's have far less fps drops in smokes in CS:GO than NVIDIA cards, can you confirm?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Page faults are normally nothing to worry about. The operating systems nowadays have a scheme where programs can ask for file contents to show up and magically be mirrored somewhere in memory. This then uses the same "virtual memory" scheme that's also used with the page-file for when RAM runs out. The CPU is made to run into those "hard page faults" when it tries to look into those spots of memory that are supposed to mirror the file contents. The latency for "hard page faults" looks bad because, to service those, the disk has to be accessed and the disk is slow. That's not bad or good, it's just like it is.


DisablePagingExecutive=1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Page Faults just your PC trying to access files that were in memory but now reside on a drive?
And that really the only thing to do with Page Faults is ensure that things stay in memory and not on a drive?


----------



## Curleyyy

EDIT: Totally forgot that you can strip a Windows install. Has anyone done this before, can shed some light? There seem to be a ton of programs that can do it.

I'm curious as to how much RAM usage people have with their BB setups.

>login to windows
>load apps
>close apps
>check task manager
>record usage

Keep in mind that you can close programs, steam, chrome etc,. But your PC must be stable enough to run.

Last month I had 23 processors and 815 MB usage.

This month I have 23 processors and 680~ MB usage.

Still chasing that sub 500 MB usage!


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> EDIT: Totally forgot that you can strip a Windows install. Has anyone done this before, can shed some light? There seem to be a ton of programs that can do it.


Yes its called Debloating.

Check out Blackviper.com for services, you can go even more extreme and remove DLL files but its trial and error.
The biggest thing is having no Anti-Virus and no driver software such as audio software suites.

I know a few driver files can be deleted but its totally up to the user and what features they need, for example you might need DTS but not Dolby DLLs.


----------



## pstN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> EDIT: Totally forgot that you can strip a Windows install. Has anyone done this before, can shed some light? There seem to be a ton of programs that can do it.


Yeah, it's a must nowadays imo, I recommend msmg toolkit(free) for removing unblocked packages (usually risk-free) or NTlite for deeper removal (protected packages) which is also more risky and may render the ISO unusable.


----------



## Curleyyy

NT Lite seems like it's nailed the ball there. Will give it ago for my next reinstall









What's the difference between unblocked / protected packages? Does NT Lite do both or will I need both NT Lite and MSMG?

Windows Autoruns:


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Autoruns is a powerful program and you really shouldn't just go about unticking stuff without understanding what you are doing.

Just guessing here because I refuse to install Google programs on my computer anymore (they have 15,000 ways of making Google components run in the background that tend to regenerate after each update), but the Google Chrome Installer entry is likely similar to Firefox's silent install features that bypass UAC interaction, install some components in the background without restarting, etc. You can probably safely uncheck it, but it will almost certainly break automatic in-browser updates and may break manual in-browser updates and require you to download the full installer any time it's updated with security patches.

I would recommend unticking the NvCplDesktopContext entry, because even if you have the NVIDIA driver service set to manual, it will start up and stay running any time you right click on the desktop. DPC latency from the NVIDIA drivers is significantly worse with the NVIDIA service running and I get infrequent game stutters. It only needs to be running when you are interacting with the NVIDIA control panel, so I like to untick it in Autoruns, set it to Manual startup, then make a link to an AutoHotKey script to run the NVIDIA control panel and automatically shut down the NVIDIA service when you close the control panel.


Spoiler: NVIDIA control panel script



Code:



Code:


#NoEnv
#SingleInstance ignore
#NoTrayIcon

OnExit, EOF

Run, nvcplui.exe, C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\Control Panel Client

Loop {
                Sleep, 10000
                Process, Exist, nvcplui.exe
                if !ErrorLevel
                        break
}
Run, %comspec% /c "net stop nvsvc & exit",, Hide

return

EOF:
ExitApp





The HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services is split into drivers and non-OS services that are installed on the computer. Unticking them does not mean you are keeping them from otherwise starting. Only services with a Start value of 2 in the registry will auto-start, consistent with setting the startup parameter in the Windows Services console. So if you have already properly set the startup of all your services, ham-handedly unticking them is a rather fruitless endeavor. It can only have negative consequences, like software intending to be able to start and stop the service installed with the software, but being unable to will fail or crash. And some hardware will be unable to operate properly or at all if their driver entries are removed with Autoruns. But if you really want to go with your "stab in the dark", go ahead and untick 80% of them and see what happens.







Just using the Autoruns description to judge the function or purpose of drivers can be very misleading. This section was intended more for investigating potentially malicious entries masquerading as legitimate services or drivers, which used to be a more common attack vector for malware.

Similarly, messing with the plug-ins or codecs is pointless. They will only affect the specific programs and will have no impact on system performance whatsoever other than potentially breaking the software they came with. Again, this section was intended to investigate malware that attacked through the media player extensions.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> What's the difference between unblocked / protected packages? Does NT Lite do both or will I need both NT Lite and MSMG?
> 
> W


I think Protected means they are write protected this is usually due to DRM or Telemetry not because its important.


----------



## pstN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> NT Lite seems like it's nailed the ball there. Will give it ago for my next reinstall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference between unblocked / protected packages? Does NT Lite do both or will I need both NT Lite and MSMG?


If you have ntlite you don't need anything else. What I mean by protected and unblocked is, w10 apps, windows defender, system restore, adobe flash are easy to remove (unblocked), things like windows update, vss, msmg, are more complicated (probably due to dependencies in some cases) but ntlite will remove them just fine


----------



## MaFi0s0

Wouldnt windows update on Windows 10 just reinstall them all again?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Wouldnt windows update on Windows 10 just reinstall them all again?


Yes, but that is assuming that A) you use windows update at all, and B) that you don't do a clean install of every major build (which is the best practice anyway) at which point you could just strip the same packages out again.


----------



## pstN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Wouldnt windows update on Windows 10 just reinstall them all again?


Not necessarily, it really depends on what you take out. However, what I often do is disable windows updates, and use the latest ISO (Which are updated every 4 months). NTLite lets you save a preset, so you can just re-apply the same thing to the new iso, it literally takes less than 5 minutes.

I spent months and months testing all that stuff out, I once ended up with a W10 ISO that was 1.1GB! and the final install space usage was like 3GB

*EDIT* I just thought of another way. NTLite lets you edit a live install, which means the one you're currently running, so if you find that certain updates reinstall something you don't want, you can just remove it, and it takes like 30 seconds.

btw, MSMG toolkit does NOT let you edit a live install, it only allows ISO authoring.

If anyone needs any help with any of that stuff, or presets, don't hesitate to PM me.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Yes, but that is assuming that A) you use windows update at all, and B) that you don't do a clean install of every major build (which is the best practice anyway) at which point you could just strip the same packages out again.


Well I am using an old version of enterprise it doesn't say which build just Windows 10 Enterprise and I am having problems updating that seen to be system related.

Is there a source for an enterprise ISO?


----------



## pstN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Well I am using an old version of enterprise it doesn't say which build just Windows 10 Enterprise and I am having problems updating that seen to be system related.
> 
> Is there a source for an enterprise ISO?


hmmmm, that's weird, even a very light ISO should have no problem updating. I have a link, but I've no idea if we're allowed to post it here, eventhough it's nothing illegal, it's from MSDN.

what did you strip out?


----------



## pstN

I would honestly wait until the November ISO to update to 1607, many people had trouble with mouse polling with the initial release, MS have been messing around with USB, just two days ago they released yet another USB "reliability update" but nothing was wrong with it on 1511 (which is the one I recommend for mouse optimization for now) but just to be safe I would wait until the next ISO.


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pstN*
> 
> hmmmm, that's weird, even a very light ISO should have no problem updating. I have a link, but I've no idea if we're allowed to post it here, eventhough it's nothing illegal, it's from MSDN.
> 
> what did you strip out?


Ive disabled Cortana and I think thats why it wont update, I also have Windows defender disabled because its like trying to protect a rusted car from rain.

The CBS log from /scannow is huge though, this OS is horrible.


----------



## pstN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Ive disabled Cortana and I think thats why it wont update, I also have Windows defender disabled because its like trying to protect a rusted car from rain.
> 
> The CBS log from /scannow is huge though, this OS is horrible.


disabled or stripped out?

also, if I can recommend something to everyone here, DO NOT use N versions of windows. People think they're less bloated versions of windows, and while that might be half true, they have important codecs stripped out which are required to be able to run WinSAT, which influences everything we aim for in this thread. I have no idea why MS have done that but from what I've seen, not a single machine running an N version of windows has a WinSAT index...


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> Ive disabled Cortana and I think thats why it wont update, I also have Windows defender disabled because its like trying to protect a rusted car from rain.


I have removed Cortana and Windows Defender, don't have any problems with update.


----------



## PurpleChef

anything i can turn off?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> 
> anything i can turn off?


Install the intel chipset software from station drivers or intel site version 10.1.1.37 or 35 I think.


----------



## softskiller

Does look like an AMD chipset.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Install the intel chipset software from station drivers or intel site version 10.1.1.37 or 35 I think.


amd system bro


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> 
> anything i can turn off?


You can turn off a lot there and its like having no chipset drivers and I dont know the drawbacks. I wouldnt worry about it.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> You can turn off a lot there and its like having no chipset drivers and I dont know the drawbacks. I wouldnt worry about it.


You wouldn't worry about disabling alot here, or what do you mean? if so, what can i disable?

You guys use any tweaks for 8.1 thats not listed listed by roach?


----------



## MaFi0s0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> You wouldn't worry about disabling alot here, or what do you mean? if so, what can i disable?
> 
> You guys use any tweaks for 8.1 thats not listed listed by roach?


I mean I wouldnt disable anything unless I was looking to break my install out of boredom.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaFi0s0*
> 
> I mean I wouldnt disable anything unless I was looking to break my install out of boredom.


i like to turn off and remove everything i dont use bro. boredom everyday day lol.


----------



## cimi

Hi guys,i`ve been looking for an answer and a solution to a problem i have for ages. looked everywhere,asked on every place i could think of and i couldnt fix it,so im hoping someone here can help me.

I use my computer mainly for playing cs go and i recently switched to skylake platform.
While i was on amd platform,everything was working perfectly,but now on skylake my mouse is acting up.

It feels like mouse delay,it feels like i have vsync on,which i dont.
I tried everything that anybody suggested (i have been trying out for a solution for months now) and absolutely nothing worked.
I even did a couple of fresh windows installs,and its still floaty and it doesnt feel right.

I can see that my image on screen is a couple of frames late and that my croshair is moving too fast.My dpc latency is high when i enter cs go on steam.My mouse ans everything else works perfectly until i enter the game.

I have i6700k, z170 pro mobo and 280 x graphics.

Does anyone have any idea as to what i could tweak in bios or anywhere else to fix it?
I really desperately need help solving this,cos i tried a ton of stuff people suggested and nothing helped.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys anyone tested this one, feels better with Multiplayer BF4 - also my friend tested and he said it's better
Quote:


> Network Throttling Index
> 
> Windows implements a network throttling mechanism, the idea behind such throttling is that processing of network packets can be a resource-intensive task. It is beneficial to turn off such throttling for achieving maximum throughput.
> 
> To implement this tweak, run regedit and modify the registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile. Under SystemProfile, create a DWORD value and name it to "NetworkThrottlingIndex" then set its Hexadecimal value to ffffffff for gaming and max throughput: ffffffff completely disables throttling


.

https://www.back2gaming.com/guides/how-to-tweak-windows-10-for-gaming/

http://www.speedguide.net/articles/lan-tweaks-for-windows-7-8-10-5819


----------



## cimi

guys can some one help with mine problem,with previous question?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Guys anyone tested this one, feels better with Multiplayer BF4 - also my friend tested and he said it's better
> .
> 
> https://www.back2gaming.com/guides/how-to-tweak-windows-10-for-gaming/
> 
> http://www.speedguide.net/articles/lan-tweaks-for-windows-7-8-10-5819


set SystemResponsiveness to 0 to


----------



## cimi

Guys to one who can help me to get back mouse feeling as before i will donate 30eur for his truble.
Im desperate,i loose every day 2h searching for fix.
So its better to pay to someone for his time.
My favoreite game is destroyed because of this.


----------



## deepor

Perhaps make a list of everything you have tried? You are just saying "I tried everything" but don't explain what that means, so people perhaps feel like suggesting anything to try for you would be a waste of time as you will likely answer "of course I tried this already".

With "a list of everything you have tried", I mean just a very short sentence or just a word about it, not a thorough description of the steps you did.


----------



## cimi

I tried everyting sugested in topic,high performance,disabled services,reinstal csgo,reinstal steam,w10 pro,w10 home,w7 ultimate,new/old/oldest bios,markc mous fix,scaling/no scaling,new/old drivers,zowie fk2 mouse/some other mouse,all usb ports,clear cmos,disabel bunch services,disable cortana,disable visual effects,radeonpro......

Still my mouse feels like it has mouse accel or vsnc..Like it glide on ice.

Couple things i didn't try

1.Disable hpet(don't have it in bios)
2.Usb 3.0 drivers.Cos when i try to instal thoose frome asus site i got msg "Asmedia usb controler not found".How can i enable Asmedia contorler?

Mouse feels perfect on desktop but as soon i enter game it feels like gliding on ice.

I gave list of things i tried can someone tell me how to enable asmedia contoler,where to get newest usb drivers for z170..
And does some one have more idea how to fix mine problem?


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> I tried everyting sugested in topic,high performance,disabled services,reinstal csgo,reinstal steam,w10 pro,w10 home,w7 ultimate,new/old/oldest bios,markc mous fix,scaling/no scaling,new/old drivers,zowie fk2 mouse/some other mouse,all usb ports,clear cmos,disabel bunch services,disable cortana,disable visual effects,radeonpro......
> 
> Still my mouse feels like it has mouse accel or vsnc..Like it glide on ice.
> 
> Couple things i didn't try
> 
> 1.Disable hpet(don't have it in bios)
> 2.Usb 3.0 drivers.Cos when i try to instal thoose frome asus site i got msg "Asmedia usb controler not found".How can i enable Asmedia contorler?
> 
> Mouse feels perfect on desktop but as soon i enter game it feels like gliding on ice.
> 
> I gave list of things i tried can someone tell me how to enable asmedia contoler,where to get newest usb drivers for z170..
> And does some one have more idea how to fix mine problem?


have you checked that ingame is not low monitor Hz compared to desktopmode ?
have you tried another mouse ?
have you tried mouse in another usbport ?
make sure "no scaling" ticked in nvidia gfx driver ?
what happens if you game in windowed mode instead of fullscreen?


----------



## cimi

*yes ingame is 144hz...I also put launch commands for it..And its HUGE difference between 60hz and 144hz
*i tried 2 mouse`s same results
*i tried all usb ports on mine mb
*I have amd card,if i don`t put scaling i can`t play 4:3 full screen(it give me with borders)
*when i play with borders its better but i feel lag even then

Here are some images in W10,after i will put settings in bios

Amd drivers(settings)

http://prntscr.com/crohn0
http://prntscr.com/crohvt
http://prntscr.com/crohzm

Device menager

http://prntscr.com/croia6
http://prntscr.com/croigy
http://prntscr.com/croio8
http://prntscr.com/croiwd
http://prntscr.com/croj1g
http://prntscr.com/crojn3


----------



## cimi

And plz guys look at mine bios settings im sure driver or bios settings are problem

http://prntscr.com/cronm4
http://prntscr.com/croo0g
http://prntscr.com/croo5w
http://prntscr.com/crooal
http://prntscr.com/croof6
http://prntscr.com/croojt
http://prntscr.com/crooom
http://prntscr.com/crooti
http://prntscr.com/crooyr
http://prntscr.com/crop3f
http://prntscr.com/crop9v
http://prntscr.com/cropeo
http://prntscr.com/cropmf
http://prntscr.com/croprq
http://prntscr.com/cropwp
http://prntscr.com/croq0n
http://prntscr.com/croq5a
http://prntscr.com/croqbm
http://prntscr.com/croqhb
http://prntscr.com/croqlf
http://prntscr.com/croqpj
http://prntscr.com/croqts

I dont have any more ideas,plz guys check images


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> *yes ingame is 144hz...I also put launch commands for it..And its HUGE difference between 60hz and 144hz
> *i tried 2 mouse`s same results
> *i tried all usb ports on mine mb
> *I have amd card,if i don`t put scaling i can`t play 4:3 full screen(it give me with borders)
> *when i play with borders its better but i feel lag even then
> 
> Here are some images in W10,after i will put settings in bios
> 
> Amd drivers(settings)
> 
> http://prntscr.com/crohn0
> http://prntscr.com/crohvt
> http://prntscr.com/crohzm
> 
> Device menager
> 
> http://prntscr.com/croia6
> http://prntscr.com/croigy
> http://prntscr.com/croio8
> http://prntscr.com/croiwd
> http://prntscr.com/croj1g
> http://prntscr.com/crojn3


Not sure if I can help
I would go back to win 7 if you dont need directx 12 gaming. Mouse feeling is better in win 7 the same way mouse feeling is better in windows xp


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> *I have amd card,if i don`t put scaling i can`t play 4:3 full screen(it give me with borders)
> *when i play with borders its better but i feel lag even then


Try to set desktop resolution equal your in-game resolution. It will allow you to disable scaling and have no black bars. Also try low resolution like 1024x768 see if your mouse will behave any different.
I guess you've already tried exclusive fullscreen/windowed mode but for me on Win10 exclusive is much more responsive.


----------



## cimi

Can somebody just give me good drivers for Asus Z170 Pro MB....That you try and work fine.

Cos all drivers i tried for usb give me error during install

Ty in advance.


----------



## softskiller

@cimi

Try to disable CSM (compatibility support module). Did you install Windows in UEFI mode?


----------



## cimi

It won`t let me turn off CSM,brings me back to BIOS...Why`s that?

I dont know about UEFI,how could i check that?

Does some one have good usb drivers for Z170,and plz tell me your BIOS settings about USB.


----------



## Solarfox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> It won`t let me turn off CSM,brings me back to BIOS...Why`s that?
> 
> I dont know about UEFI,how could i check that?
> 
> Does some one have good usb drivers for Z170,and plz tell me your BIOS settings about USB.


Flash latest BIOS,
Go in BIOS and Load optimized default - Save and Exit, restart, enter bios again and set BIOS as You like or with this guide from first post. I do that and i have super smooth mouse on desktop and games.
Install new windows and install ONLY drivers for GPU and nothing else, go in game and see is mouse working, if work, than install other programs ONE by ONE and always load game between installation and when mouse starting to go crazy, probably last program You installed causing it.
With my old Nvidia 960 GTX 4GB mouse was working much smoother than with new Nvidia 1070 GTX







even on desktop. Latency is the same on test but not in game and desktop.


----------



## cimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solarfox*
> 
> Flash latest BIOS,
> Go in BIOS and Load optimized default - Save and Exit, restart, enter bios again and set BIOS as You like or with this guide from first post. I do that and i have super smooth mouse on desktop and games.
> Install new windows and install ONLY drivers for GPU and nothing else, go in game and see is mouse working, if work, than install other programs ONE by ONE and always load game between installation and when mouse starting to go crazy, probably last program You installed causing it.
> With my old Nvidia 960 GTX 4GB mouse was working much smoother than with new Nvidia 1070 GTX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even on desktop. Latency is the same on test but not in game and desktop.


Yes man i tried all that.I instaled W10 pro,W10 home,W7 ultimate...Installed drivers one by one,tried game without any drivers,tried any possible solution.When i install w10,he download automatically drivers.

I play game 4:3 stretch 1024:768 so i need to put in CSGO in Crimson drivers Display Scaling = full panel

http://prntscr.com/cs0he0

In desktop mouse works perfect but as soon i enter game it goes so smooth like i don`t have any resistance...

*So i tried 3 different OS problem is the same

So i think its driver/bios/or gpu driver problem....

I would give everything if i could have mine feeling like when i used Amd setup ...Now i use 400 dpi 2 in game sense...If i put to 1.5 i then notice difference...Before when i put from 2.1 sens to 2.0 sens i feel HUGE DIFFERENCE.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Yes man i tried all that.I instaled W10 pro,W10 home,W7 ultimate...Installed drivers one by one,tried game without any drivers,tried any possible solution.When i install w10,he download automatically drivers.
> 
> I play game 4:3 stretch 1024:768 so i need to put in CSGO in Crimson drivers Display Scaling = full panel
> 
> http://prntscr.com/cs0he0
> 
> In desktop mouse works perfect but as soon i enter game it goes so smooth like i don`t have any resistance...
> 
> *So i tried 3 different OS problem is the same
> 
> So i think its driver/bios/or gpu driver problem....
> 
> I would give everything if i could have mine feeling like when i used Amd setup ...Now i use 400 dpi 2 in game sense...If i put to 1.5 i then notice difference...Before when i put from 2.1 sens to 2.0 sens i feel HUGE DIFFERENCE.


Have you tryed with Rinput/SourceGL?


----------



## sndri

Go to c/steam/steamapps/common where you find csgo.exe, you should know where it is and right click csgo.exe properties compatibility tap and check disable display scaling... your mouse should feel better after that. I would also give -noforcemaccel -noforcemparms -noforcemspd commands in launch a shot and see whether your mouse feels better after that also, if not obviously remove it=D


----------



## furyragez

Quote:


> -noforcemaccel - Use the Windows mouse acceleration settings. Only works if -useforcedmparms is set.
> -noforcemspd - Use the Windows mouse speed settings. Only works if -useforcedmparms is set.


https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Command_Line_Options


----------



## cimi

Yes i tried Rinput/SourceGL same feeling mouse floats on screen..

I tried that csgo.exe disable display scaling no difference

I tried all console comands,no comand helped mine mouse movement..

Couple hours ago i instaled old chipset drivers and mine mouse is less sensitive,its harder to move over the screed,still not that feel like i had before but better,so i thing its bios settings/driver

*Can you guys do for me two things and im not asking for more...Its no point,i dont know how to fix this :

1.Can some one who have z170 give me his bios settings for mouse/usb?

2.Can you give me links for good drivers for you for Z170 mb...So i can try that..*

Ty guys for all the help,something is wrong with mine pc,i cant waste anymore time,i spent 2 months for this


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Yes i tried Rinput/SourceGL same feeling mouse floats on screen..
> 
> I tried that csgo.exe disable display scaling no difference
> 
> I tried all console comands,no comand helped mine mouse movement..
> 
> Couple hours ago i instaled old chipset drivers and mine mouse is less sensitive,its harder to move over the screed,still not that feel like i had before but better,so i thing its bios settings/driver
> 
> *Can you guys do for me two things and im not asking for more...Its no point,i dont know how to fix this :
> 
> 1.Can some one who have z170 give me his bios settings for mouse/usb?
> 
> 2.Can you give me links for good drivers for you for Z170 mb...So i can try that..*
> 
> Ty guys for all the help,something is wrong with mine pc,i cant waste anymore time,i spent 2 months for this


The placebo effect got you, everything is probably fine, don't think about it.


----------



## cimi

No its defenetly not ok..

Cos i put from 2.1 to 1.5 sens and its same feeling before i put from 2.1 to 2.0 and its huge difference...Im finaly got to lem and i need mine aim back,but i wont try it again,im tired..

If someon can help me with drivers so i can try it,it would be great.


----------



## cimi

Every time i want to instal Intel usb 3.0 drivers i get this msg...And i tried 10 different drivers

http://prntscr.com/csovqb

And when i install Asmedia usb 3.0 driver...I see him in control panle...But i dont see him in device menager...Is that some bug?

*If some one can help me finding and properly installing usb 3.0 dribers from mine MB i will be more than happy*


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Setting network card settings (Windows 8.1 and Windows 10)
> 
> Right click on Start button and select Device Manager. Look for Network adapters and double click it. Right click on a network adapter listed in this category and select Properties. Click on Advanced tab.
> 
> NetworkAdapterSettings
> 
> Disable Adaptive Inter-Frame Spacing
> Disable all power saving settings (Green, Eco, Power Saving etc)
> Disable Flow Control
> Disable Interrupt Moderation
> Set Interrupt Moderation Rate to OFF
> Set Enable PME to DISABLED
> Disable all features with "Offload" in the name
> Disable Packet Priority & VLAN
> Disable Jumbo Packet
> Most of options in this category ensure reliability, but cause delay in network traffic, resulting in game network data being late when it should have already been processed, meaning kills you were suppose to make in a game never happen in time, which is always bad.
> 
> Set Receive Buffers and Transmit buffers to 96
> Connection buffers are a different beast. In one way they help prevent data loss if data can't be processed in time by your system, but having data in the buffers means it will have a delay again before it actually reaches the game engine (because it's sitting in the buffers, waiting to get through). If you have a really fast system, using very low values will help reducing the delay because network adapter will be forced to "flush" them faster. With low end systems it may cause packet loss because network adapter will simply drop/reject packets that can't be fit into the buffers. My Intel Pro LAN only goes as low as 80, but I know Realtek Gigabit LAN goes even below 32. If adapter allows even lower values, experiment with them.
> 
> Set Receive Side Scaling (RSS) to ENABLED
> Set number of RSS Queues to a higher value value (2 in my case)
> Receive Side Scaling (RSS) helps utilize multiple CPU cores in order to process received network packets faster and spread CPU utilization across many CPU cores. Having this enabled will ensure Receive and Transmit buffers will not get overflown by data, allowing you to have them set to a very low value. It may induce a slight DPC delay because multiple cores have to synchronize communication between each other, but I think faster processing in general helps more than slightly higher DPC delay penalizes it. RSS Queues number defines how many CPU cores will be utilized for network data processing. Value of 2 means 2 out of my 6 cores (Intel 5820K) will be used for networking. Checked the second Realtek LAN chip on my motherboard and it allows me to set up to 4 RSS queues.
> 
> Results?
> 
> After I've changed the settings, average received packet loss has dropped from 10-12% down to 0% (which is what you want at all times!). Out of Order value also dropped from ridiculous 480 down to like 9 or 12 after being in a game for several minutes. Which is acceptable though I'll try to fiddle some more to make it even lower if possible.
> 
> I've also noticed my kill:death (kd) ratio has improved dramatically as well as less complaining over kills that didn't happen even though they should have. So, try it, if you have horrible networking issues like I had, you can't really make it worse lol?
> 
> Please note that I'm not an expert in networking, all the stuff described above is what I've learned from reading various networking documents and my past knowledge on how computers and networking works. If you have any corrections, please, tell us down below in comments section and I'll update the info. I may also update this article in the future if I find any other game changing settings that improve things even further.


https://rejzor.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/improve-network-performance-for-games/

Thoughts? thats alot of changes


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Every time i want to instal Intel usb 3.0 drivers i get this msg...And i tried 10 different drivers
> 
> http://prntscr.com/csovqb
> 
> And when i install Asmedia usb 3.0 driver...I see him in control panle...But i dont see him in device menager...Is that some bug?
> 
> *If some one can help me finding and properly installing usb 3.0 dribers from mine MB i will be more than happy*


Have you tried Snappy Driver Installer? https://sdi-tool.org/?lang=en
You can check only drivers that you want to update, no need to download all of them. It's the best tool for updating drivers that i've found.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> https://rejzor.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/improve-network-performance-for-games/
> 
> Thoughts? thats alot of changes


They nearly got all of the right. This is not right however:
Quote:


> Disable all features with "Offload" in the name


You definitely want Large Receive/Send and TCP Chimney Offload options disabled, but you want Offload IPv4/TCP/UDP Checksum options enabled (for transmit and receive, if your drivers breaks it up) if you're using Intel LAN on your motherboard or a PCIe/PCI network adapter.
Quote:


> IPv4 Checksum Offload: Enables the adapter to compute the IPv4 checksum of packets instead of the host OS, which can help increase adapter performance while also reducing CPU utilization.
> 
> TCP Checksum Offload: Allows the adapter to compute the TCP checksum of outgoing packets rather than the host OS, which can help increase transmission performance while also reducing CPU utilization.
> 
> UDP Checksum Offload: Enables the adapter to compute the UDP checksum of outgoing packets instead of the host OS, which can help increase transmission performance while also reducing CPU utilization.


Trasmit/Receive Buffers don't work as simply as they think. Reducing them as low as possible like he suggests won't magically remove 'network delay'. First of all, buffer settings are very specific to their respective network adapter and driver, so ham-handedly giving recommendations for them is foolhardy. Nearly every network adapter I've ever personally used had practically 0 documentation on buffer settings, and the ones that did gave very stern warnings against changing them from the defaults and it was mainly something intended for networking professionals. Unless you can provide statistically significant data that proves changing these settings is an improvement for your specific situation, I would highly recommend against altering these from the default values.

Also, you have to setup your Windows environment to match the settings of your network adapter. I find TCP Optimizer to be the easiest way to do this. Here are my settings:










*Note: Intel Virtualization Technology must be enabled in the BIOS for NetDMA and Direct Cache Access to work.


----------



## PurpleChef

Im on the onboard Lan @ my sabertooth 990fx r2.0.
*Intel V T* = *SVM* on AMD systems or? worth enabling for those 2 settings?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Im on the onboard Lan @ my sabertooth 990fx r2.0.
> *Intel V T* = *SVM* on AMD systems or? worth enabling for those 2 settings?


Intel VT and AMD SVM are not used by normal programs. They are only used when you run virtual machines with VirtualBox, VMWare and Hyper-V.

If you don't use those programs, it does not matter if it's disabled or enabled as it is simply not used by anything on your computer. If you do use those programs, they really need the option enabled or virtual machines will have bad CPU performance or certain features will not work, for example you can only do 32-bit virtual machines and can't do 64-bit machines.


----------



## cimi

Can someone give me Intel or Asmedia driver for Skylake...Cos every driver i instal or i get error msg or i see hin in control panel but when i go to device menager i dont see him there.

Just that help and im not asking for more,i tried all those programs for downloading drivers.But no help non of those programs download drivers for usb.

And is this IRQ normal???

http://prntscr.com/ct4ilz


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Im on the onboard Lan @ my sabertooth 990fx r2.0.
> *Intel V T* = *SVM* on AMD systems or? worth enabling for those 2 settings?


Won't do anything for you, you need a processor that supports Intel I/O Acceleration Technology (I/OAT), which is part of Intel Virtualization Technology for Connectivity (VT-c), which is part of Intel Virtualization Technology (VT), which is the option that can be toggled in the BIOS for people with such processors, which you don't have.









So you might as well go with disable/disable for NetDMA and DCA (it doesn't really make a big difference with those settings either way tbh).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Intel VT and AMD SVM are not used by normal programs. They are only used when you run virtual machines with VirtualBox, VMWare and Hyper-V.
> 
> If you don't use those programs, it does not matter if it's disabled or enabled as it is simply not used by anything on your computer. If you do use those programs, they really need the option enabled or virtual machines will have bad CPU performance or certain features will not work, for example you can only do 32-bit virtual machines and can't do 64-bit machines.


Not true. NetDMA is an example of a non virtual function using Intel VT. See the links posted above.

And before someone mentions this from the OP:
Quote:


> 9) Intel Virtualization Technology - disabled for any gaming PC obviously. Virtualization and it's services tend to be resource heavy and no reason to have it on for a gaming PC.


Perfect example of one of his useless and ill-informed recommendations. It doesn't add any services by being turned on in BIOS, or even any devices in Device Manager. I can find no performance difference of any sort relating to the Intel VT BIOS setting.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Can someone give me Intel or Asmedia driver for Skylake...Cos every driver i instal or i get error msg or i see hin in control panel but when i go to device menager i dont see him there.
> 
> Just that help and im not asking for more,i tried all those programs for downloading drivers.But no help non of those programs download drivers for usb.
> 
> And is this IRQ normal???
> 
> http://prntscr.com/ct4ilz


That IRQ is fine. That just means USB3 is in MSI mode and not legacy IRQ. Quit fiddling, the USB3 driver will make 0 difference for you. If you see the USB3 controller in the IRQs, then it is installed with a perfectly functioning driver. The problem you're having, if it's not placebo, is just the nature of USB3 and can only be changed by using a USB2 controller instead.


----------



## cimi

But i put my mouse in usb 2.0 slot.Its all the time in that slot,i have 2 usb 2.0 slots..
Is there some setting in bios or driver for usb 2.0 on Z170?


----------



## PurpleChef

Questions for Win 10 users:

Anyone users gone crazy with *Autoruns* program, disabling alot of unnecessary stuffs?

How about *Process Explorer*?



What is all this stuff? im on Amd system yo


----------



## spin5000

The OP can tell a difference in input lag between setting the BCLK to 100.0 and auto/100.3?...He can feel input lag due to a memory ratio of 133 instead of 100? Input lag due to different phase control settings? Input lag due to using a non-manual vCore? Input lag from any audio setting higher than 44.1 KHz and 16-bit??...

I'm a bit of an input lag freak (due mostly because of simracing) but I'm extremely skeptical of many of these claims.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> But i put my mouse in usb 2.0 slot.Its all the time in that slot,i have 2 usb 2.0 slots..
> Is there some setting in bios or driver for usb 2.0 on Z170?


I keep forgetting that true USB 2.0 isn't really a thing with Z170/Skylake because they dropped EHCI support and everything is handled by xHCI. So using the USB 2.0 ports on your motherboard is basically just sending a USB 2.0 device through USB 3 architecture. So you're pretty much stuck with the issue I think you're explaining and the only way to fix it would be to go back to a 9-series (_e.g._, Z97) or earlier chipset and a Broadwell or earlier CPU.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Questions for Win 10 users:
> 
> Anyone users gone crazy with *Autoruns* program, disabling alot of unnecessary stuffs?
> 
> How about *Process Explorer*?
> 
> 
> 
> What is all this stuff? im on Amd system yo


I'm going to try and save you some time and hassle by telling you to just go ahead and delete that program now. You can do everything it does yourself without the temptation of going crazy and unchecking/deleting a bunch a stuff whose purpose you have no idea about, and don't need to know about. But if you wish to use it, I went over the actual good things you can do with it a few pages ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spin5000*
> 
> The OP can tell a difference in input lag between setting the BCLK to 100.0 and auto/100.3?...He can feel input lag due to a memory ratio of 133 instead of 100? Input lag due to different phase control settings? Input lag due to using a non-manual vCore? Input lag from any audio setting higher than 44.1 KHz and 16-bit??...
> 
> I'm a bit of an input lag freak (due mostly because of simracing) but I'm extremely skeptical of many of these claims.


Yeah, all reasonable people I've seen in this thread have some degree of skepticism of the OP's claims. I think he himself had backed off these claims a little before he abandoned OCN altogether. There is still a wealth of good information in this thread, which is why it is still used, but I think the OP has become regarded as half useful, half delusional at best.


----------



## PurpleChef

I want every frame i can get out of my system


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Yeah and nothing you posted in that Autoruns screenshot will do anything for that. You'll break your system before you find something in there that gives you even 0.1% more FPS.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Note: Intel Virtualization Technology must be enabled in the BIOS for NetDMA and Direct Cache Access to work.


Hi, got a few interrogations.
-- Why is your SystemResponsiveness not set to 0 (since it says it's better for gaming purposes) ?
-- I mostly play CS:GO and LoL, do you think I need to set *NetDMA* & *Direct Cache Access* to enabled and it would benefit me for those games?
-- Do *TcpAckFrequency* & *TCPNoDelay* really make a difference latency wise? And I should turn them on for LoL and CS:GO?

Thank's!


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Hi, got a few interrogations.
> -- Why is your SystemResponsiveness not set to 0 (since it says it's better for gaming purposes) ?
> -- I mostly play CS:GO and LoL, do you think I need to set *NetDMA* & *Direct Cache Access* to enabled and it would benefit me for those games?
> -- Do *TcpAckFrequency* & *TCPNoDelay* really make a difference latency wise? And I should turn them on for LoL and CS:GO?
> 
> Thank's!


I'm not him, but I do think I can answer your questions here:

- According to official Microsoft documents, setting SystemResponsiveness to 0 actually still equates to 10; there is no benefit in setting it to 0

- It is highly unlikely you will get *NetDMA* & *Direct Cache Access* to work since they require a specific components chain (server-grade NIC, workstation chipset, Virtualization Tech enabled in BIOS, ...) - I tried enabling both of them on an X99 board with a 5820K and an Intel I210-AT server NIC, to no avail. They were still shown as disabled.

- *TcpAckFrequency* & *TCPNoDelay* would only benefit older games that still rely on TCP traffic. There are not many of those around anymore (largest is probably WoW), and modern FPS (CS GO) usually rely on UDP traffic. If you don't play older games using the TCP protocol anymore I would suggest against disabling nagling for TCP since it will inhibit speed a tiny bit.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Andi is right on with all of those answer. The NetDMA, DCA, and TCP settings are pretty unimportant overall imo. I don't really notice any difference in speed with changing the TCP settings. NetDMA and DCA might not get utilized, but having them enabled won't hurt anything at all. It just makes the functions accessible to code if you have the proper hardware, but doesn't add any overhead like extra services or processes.

So it makes the most sense to me to leave them enabled as well as Intel VT, because it allows other useful things that are not exclusive to a virtual machine environment.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Vols, how is that network card? Solarflare SFN6122F..seems pretty expensive. did you notice any difference over the intel nic?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I suppose I got lucky, because I got it new from an Amazon seller for $59.99. But from what I see now, they will run you around $100 or more on eBay or Amazon. It has SFP+ network ports, so you need an SFP 1000BASE-T transceiver to be able to use it with "normal" ethernet cables. I got an HP 453154-B21 for this in used condition (but it looked new in box) off Amazon for $8.64. Another thing to note is that all Solarflare adapters require a gigabit capable router.

But yes, it performs better in pretty much every metric compared to onboard Intel LAN, and I'm pretty sure Intel NICs as well, though I've never had one so I can't verify. Still, it's not that tremendous of a performance gain that it will be worth the money for everyone. The Solarflare has better system resource usage, as measured in Latency Mon, DPC performance, and CPU usage. The difference will be greater on really fast connections. The only negative of the Solarflare really is that it is PCIe x8, so your video card will run at x8 instead of x16. But I could find no performance difference from my overclocked, water-cooled 780 Ti Classified in x8 versus x16. Overall I'm very glad I got it.

I'm going to post information about which Solarflare cards would be usable with "normal" ethernet cables, because it was confusing to me when I was trying to find a Solarflare to buy. You might be able to find a good deal on one of these models like I did, because when I was looking all the other ones were ridiculously priced. These models should all work fine (omitting some ones that would work but are typically $5-10k in price):

SFN5121T
SFN5122F **
SFN5161T
SFN5162F **
SFN6122F **
SFN6322F **

** Model numbers ending in F will need a SFP 1000BASE-T transceiver. Here are the ones approved by Solarflare:

3COM 3CSFP93
Arista SFP-1G-BT
Avago ABCU‐5710RZ
Cisco 30‐1410‐03
Dell FCMJ‐8521‐3‐(DL)
Finisar FCLF‐8521‐3
Finisar FCMJ‐8521‐3
HP 453156‐001
HP 453154‐B21


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Questions for Win 10 users:
> 
> Anyone users gone crazy with *Autoruns* program, disabling alot of unnecessary stuffs?
> 
> How about *Process Explorer*?
> 
> 
> 
> What is all this stuff? im on Amd system yo


I have. built a bat file to disable services I don't need, one drive and defender. Than mess around with Group Policy to disable other stuff.


----------



## cimi

Can somebody tell me how to complete delete Intel chipset driver?
Is there some programs that can delete manualy drivers?

Also can somebody give me USB 3.0 drivers for Series 100...Im looking for days and nothing


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Can somebody tell me how to complete delete Intel chipset driver?
> Is there some programs that can delete manualy drivers?
> 
> Also can somebody give me USB 3.0 drivers for Series 100...Im looking for days and nothing


usb drivers from station-drivers.com

intel chipset you can only uninstall by rolling back .


----------



## cimi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> usb drivers from station-drivers.com
> 
> intel chipset you can only uninstall by rolling back .


Not even there you can find USB 3.0 drivers for Skylake to work on windows 10...

Can some one give me CMD command you should use after instaling win/components/drivers...I saw that command on this topic but i cant find


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

winsat formal -restart clean

is what I think you mean? That's just to rerun the Windows System Assessment Tool, which is recommended after major changes.

And there aren't Intel USB 3.0 drivers for Skylake on Windows 10 because they are integrated into Windows 10. So you're looking for something that doesn't exist. If your USB devices are working, then your USB drivers are installed and working.


----------



## x7007

Guys, I've made some testing.

For me it changes something or changed a lot, still there is something weird happening but I didn't test it right now after some more changes I did.

I'll start with the game Need For Speed The Run which crashed randomly every time with weird error called Exception code: 0x80000003

ERROR


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Faulting application name: Need For Speed The Run.exe, version: 1.1.0.0, time stamp: 0x4f14cf9c
Faulting module name: Need For Speed The Run.exe, version: 1.1.0.0, time stamp: 0x4f14cf9c
Exception code: 0x80000003
Fault offset: 0x0071496e
Faulting process id: 0xca8
Faulting application start time: 0x01d2285e66643090
Faulting application path: F:\Gamez\Need for Speed The Run\Need For Speed The Run.exe
Faulting module path: F:\Gamez\Need for Speed The Run\Need For Speed The Run.exe
Report Id: 6b5c1d90-9054-405d-880b-df3ab2f4356e
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:



Then it crashed with Exception code: 0xc0000005

I thought it crashes because I am using Reshade 3.0 + SuperDepth3D for 3D effect which works Awsome I must say. but it wasn't the case, it still crashed without it.

Now the game crashed randomly means at first when I restart a race/retry, then it crashed non stop when I crashed a car or just anything, then it crashed non stop when I crashed a police car in the same specific place all the time.

So I got sick and started checking things, all other games had weird issues, but last game I played Attack On Titan didn't crash ones and I tested Prime95 for some time at least 30 min with full ram test 12.5GB which I wanted to test all of it. nothing happened and all other games GTA V and Witcher 3 - heavy games are working fine.

First I tried closing all the software I had.
ESET Antivirus only RealTime Scanning was enabled - so I disabled
TeamViewer - Closed
SoliCall Pro - For Skype - Closed
Skype - Closed
Utorrent 2.2.1 - Closed

No other software or service was opened. I only used Xbox Elite Controller fully updated which I used with Attack on Titans .

So I tried
Reinstalling the game - didn't fix
Compability mode - 7 , 8 - 8 was working fine for a while but it crashed again very much.

Now I had Intel IMEI ( Intel Managment Engine Interface ) version 10.x.x.x or something and windows installs version 11.0.5.x
It helped a bit but not much, so I lowered it to 9.5 .
I used before IRST ( Intel Rapid Storage ) 1.4.8.0.xxx so I updated it to 14.8.9.1053 .
I enabled HPET

The game ran for pretty much 3-4 hrs straight till it crashed ones again. I never used Alt+Tab.

So I kept going went to bios and changed Cpu Power Response Control from Medium to Fast.
In windows I added the command Bcdedit /set DisableDynamicTick On because I don't use Wake Timers or C1E and such, only EIST.

Now I need to test the game again, but one thing is certain. I had 45 Fps in Skyrim before all this thing when I used Tridef S3D. but randomly before even without Tridef I had 45 Fps , I had no idea why. in windows 7 it worked fine even with 970GTX and now I have 1080GTX.

After all this I have 800+ Fps without Tridef in the castle or whatever and with Tridef I have 200 Fps + , which before I couldn't even reach it. Something changed. Nothing here is certain, but finally I can finish this game. The Fps was just stuck on 45 no matter what resolution or graphics quality I used !! you need to take that in count, and it only happened in specific games . so finally now they work fine. Now I need to check Tomb Raider because the issue happened there too, I had 90-87 even when using 3D (Reshade+SuperDepth3D) !! Fps and for some reason it lowered to 60 and when I enable the 3D it goes even lower ! so it was driving me insane, now I need to check this, how to fix it. I hope it might help you check or what to check so we can compare.

The mouse control is amazing now, I'm using Logitech G502 without the LGS Software and the mouse is just smooth even with HPET, HPET does affect the mouse, but if all other thing are properly well and set it won't affect it at all !

Here is some proof that's Skyrim works 190 Fps in Tridef 3D S3D (which mean it's real 3D) which is more heavy resource and you need very strong gpu to run heavy games. which was funny because No 3D or P3D which is Power3D (Fake 3D) didn't even made difference when I had the issue, the FPS just stuck 45-50 Fps.



Maybe we need to use specific Intel Management Engine Interface driver for specific motherboard and not just the new one, I think it is causing issues. I didn't change much expect the things I just said.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I suppose I got lucky, because I got it new from an Amazon seller for $59.99. But from what I see now, they will run you around $100 or more on eBay or Amazon. It has SFP+ network ports, so you need an SFP 1000BASE-T transceiver to be able to use it with "normal" ethernet cables. I got an HP 453154-B21 for this in used condition (but it looked new in box) off Amazon for $8.64. Another thing to note is that all Solarflare adapters require a gigabit capable router.
> 
> But yes, it performs better in pretty much every metric compared to onboard Intel LAN, and I'm pretty sure Intel NICs as well, though I've never had one so I can't verify. Still, it's not that tremendous of a performance gain that it will be worth the money for everyone. The Solarflare has better system resource usage, as measured in Latency Mon, DPC performance, and CPU usage. The difference will be greater on really fast connections. The only negative of the Solarflare really is that it is PCIe x8, so your video card will run at x8 instead of x16. But I could find no performance difference from my overclocked, water-cooled 780 Ti Classified in x8 versus x16. Overall I'm very glad I got it.
> 
> I'm going to post information about which Solarflare cards would be usable with "normal" ethernet cables, because it was confusing to me when I was trying to find a Solarflare to buy. You might be able to find a good deal on one of these models like I did, because when I was looking all the other ones were ridiculously priced. These models should all work fine (omitting some ones that would work but are typically $5-10k in price):
> 
> SFN5121T
> SFN5122F **
> SFN5161T
> SFN5162F **
> SFN6122F **
> SFN6322F **
> 
> ** Model numbers ending in F will need a SFP 1000BASE-T transceiver. Here are the ones approved by Solarflare:
> 
> 3COM 3CSFP93
> Arista SFP-1G-BT
> Avago ABCU‐5710RZ
> Cisco 30‐1410‐03
> Dell FCMJ‐8521‐3‐(DL)
> Finisar FCLF‐8521‐3
> Finisar FCMJ‐8521‐3
> HP 453156‐001
> HP 453154‐B21


I have solarflare too from long time

SFN6122F SFP+ connected in my computer

SFN5122F SFP+ which isn't connected cause unsupported by RouterOS yet.

Intel 82599EB 10-Gigabit Network (Intel X520-DA2 10Gb 10Gbe Network Adapter E10G42BTDA G1P5 E10G42BTDAG1P5) connected inside the router computer.

I bought the SFP's that are compatible and working by custom made firmware from FiberStore.com , great service, cheap and fast delivery. They make all SFP's, original cisco and all brands, and custom made for specific need very very cheap which works just the same. I also have RouterOS MikroTik brand which is a computer with AMD 8300 Cpu . and also MikroTik Switch with 2 SFP's .

Sadly RouterOS doesn't support SolarFlare network directly yet. so I need to use Intel Server NIC card which is fine just the same at the moment, better than normal crappy router. I can reach 10Gbit using IPERF.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> Not even there you can find USB 3.0 drivers for Skylake to work on windows 10...
> 
> Can some one give me CMD command you should use after instaling win/components/drivers...I saw that command on this topic but i cant find


Which one do you mean ?

bcdedit/set disabledynamictick yes
bcdedit/set useplatformtick yes
bcdedit/set useplatformclock yes
bcdedit/set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced

bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
bcdedit /deletevalue tscsyncpolicy
bcdedit /deletevalue disabledynamictick

* And You Do Not need USB3 for Windows 10 . Do you mean Intel drivers because there are none for it or other brand Asmedia or Etron ? Show a Screenshot from the device manager


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I don't have a problem with Solarflare and RouterOS...


----------



## PurpleChef

_bcdedit/set disabledynamictick yes
bcdedit/set useplatformtick yes
bcdedit/set useplatformclock yes
bcdedit/set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced

bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
bcdedit /deletevalue tscsyncpolicy
bcdedit /deletevalue disabledynamictick
_

Is any of this commands needed on W10? i run with Hpet enable in bios, but no cmd commands


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I don't have a problem with Solarflare and RouterOS...


Does your solarflare works with routeros and detected ? SFN5122F ? can you show a screenshot ? with what routeros you started using it ?

Do you solar card inside the routeros computer or inside the computer ? 1 or 2 cards total ?


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> _bcdedit/set disabledynamictick yes
> bcdedit/set useplatformtick yes
> bcdedit/set useplatformclock yes
> bcdedit/set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
> 
> bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
> bcdedit /deletevalue tscsyncpolicy
> bcdedit /deletevalue disabledynamictick
> _
> 
> Is any of this commands needed on W10? i run with Hpet enable in bios, but no cmd commands


Don't mess with any of those on Windows 8 and later.


----------



## Cloudforever

subbed!


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Don't mess with any of those on Windows 8 and later.


He can use only the /set DisableDynamicTick On For me it affected a bit more Fps and more stability. because first WIndows 7 didn't have this so if you want the same performance as windows 7 it can be disabled. it's not helpful if you don't use Sleep, it's something with Wake Timer, power saving, I think as long you have HPET enabled in bios it won't affect , maybe this timer is for computer with no HPET because the timer changes to 0.997or 0.977 insead 1.0 when HPET is disabled in bios and DisableDynamicTick is On. You can see I have 200 Fps in Skyrim with S3D (Real 3D) with this command On in the previous message. so it doesn't affect bad. without 3D I have 800+ Fps in close space, but we can figure I get good FPS when outdoor with this max.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I don't have a problem with Solarflare and RouterOS...


can you answer on the other post, I want to understand if the solarflare works for you inside router computer.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Don't mess with any of those on Windows 8 and later.


ok bro, i won't.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> He can use only the /set DisableDynamicTick On For me it affected a bit more Fps and more stability. because first WIndows 7 didn't have this so if you want the same performance as windows 7 it can be disabled. it's not helpful if you don't use Sleep, it's something with Wake Timer, power saving, I think as long you have HPET enabled in bios it won't affect , maybe this timer is for computer with no HPET because the timer changes to 0.997or 0.977 insead 1.0 when HPET is disabled in bios and DisableDynamicTick is On. You can see I have 200 Fps in Skyrim with S3D (Real 3D) with this command On in the previous message. so it doesn't affect bad. without 3D I have 800+ Fps in close space, but we can figure I get good FPS when outdoor with this max.


C:\Windows\system32>set DisableDynamicTick On
Environment variable DisableDynamicTick On not defined


----------



## whood

It's "bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes"


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does your solarflare works with routeros and detected ? SFN5122F ? can you show a screenshot ? with what routeros you started using it ?
> 
> Do you solar card inside the routeros computer or inside the computer ? 1 or 2 cards total ?


There is no 2nd computer...? RouterOS v3.24 is on my router, a MikroTik RouterBoard RB751G-2HnD.

With the factory settings, my computer didn't detect the RouterBoard at all. I had to use the WinBox program from MikroTik to even be able to see the router connection and configure it. I can't remember the details beyond that, but I'm sure if you use WinBox you'll be able to figure it out.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whood*
> 
> It's "bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes"


Thx


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> There is no 2nd computer...? RouterOS v3.24 is on my router, a MikroTik RouterBoard RB751G-2HnD.
> 
> With the factory settings, my computer didn't detect the RouterBoard at all. I had to use the WinBox program from MikroTik to even be able to see the router connection and configure it. I can't remember the details beyond that, but I'm sure if you use WinBox you'll be able to figure it out.


so you bought mikrotik router with routeros . so you put the solarflare inside the router you bought or inside your computer ? what network card there is in the router device ?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

lolwut

The network card is for the computer. The router is... just a router. RouterOS is installed on its 64MB internal memory.

Look up the model.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> lolwut
> 
> The network card is for the computer. The router is... just a router. RouterOS is installed on its 64MB internal memory.
> 
> Look up the model.


That's the thing I want to know . I am using a computer built Amd 8300 with motherboard, psu , 8gb ram and motherboard gpu. inside I have the intel server network card because the routerOs installed with usb doesn't detect the solarflare. you might didn't know that, but you can take any good computer and turn it to a server routeros.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I really don't think there would be any performance difference of having a decent computer with RouterOS acting as a router versus the RouterBoard with RouterOS for the connection speeds most people can get. Maybe for a >100Mbps up/down connection with multiple users is when it would start making a difference. RouterBoard is much cheaper and easier to setup/maintain.

And like I said, I wasn't able to get any computer (Solarflare network adapter or otherwise) to connect to RouterOS until I used their WinBox program. It's basically just not configured for network communication at all out of the box. I don't think USB will help you either. You need to connect via ethernet and use WinBox from the client computer to establish a connection with RouterOS, then it can autoconfigure or you can manually config.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> I really don't think there would be any performance difference of having a decent computer with RouterOS acting as a router versus the RouterBoard with RouterOS for the connection speeds most people can get. Maybe for a >100Mbps up/down connection with multiple users is when it would start making a difference. RouterBoard is much cheaper and easier to setup/maintain.
> 
> And like I said, I wasn't able to get any computer (Solarflare network adapter or otherwise) to connect to RouterOS until I used their WinBox program. It's basically just not configured for network communication at all out of the box. I don't think USB will help you either. You need to connect via ethernet and use WinBox from the client computer to establish a connection with RouterOS, then it can autoconfigure or you can manually config.


The performance does exist. better cpu can handle more connections but that for other matter. for me I couldn't get a routerOs box and I didn't want because I wanted to use the best server network card in the router. having a network card in computer gives a better performance because it's still a pcie 4x and not x1 connected to the mch or pch directly and usually it's bad realtek or intel and bad drivers .

To install the routeros on Dok yku just use netinstall from their site and yes you configure it with winbox after. What I wanted to know only is where was the solarflare becuase the solarflare should givez insane performance when it is connected to the router .


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

It's hard for me to tell what exactly you are wanting, more proofreading would be appreciated.









But one thing that comes to mind is the Solarflare cards with SFP+ network ports can only link at 1 Gigabit or 10 Gigabit Full Duplex, so the network card on the RouterOS computer would have to be Gigabit-capable if you are trying to use a SFP+ Solarflare on a client.

If you mean that you were using the Solarflare on the RouterOS computer, then it was probably a driver issue. Also, Solarflare cards have boot firmware that can be configured for Option ROM, UEFI, or no boot firmware. So maybe the boot firmware for the Solarflare wasn't configured for the same boot configuration as the RouterOS computer.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> It's hard for me to tell what exactly you are wanting, more proofreading would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But one thing that comes to mind is the Solarflare cards with SFP+ network ports can only link at 1 Gigabit or 10 Gigabit Full Duplex, so the network card on the RouterOS computer would have to be Gigabit-capable if you are trying to use a SFP+ Solarflare on a client.
> 
> If you mean that you were using the Solarflare on the RouterOS computer, then it was probably a driver issue. Also, Solarflare cards have boot firmware that can be configured for Option ROM, UEFI, or no boot firmware. So maybe the boot firmware for the Solarflare wasn't configured for the same boot configuration as the RouterOS computer.


me and my friend both using the same router computer with same network card with same cables and sfps. we are using the 10gb sfps. so my computer is getting 10gb in the network between the router . the only 1gb is the modem because it doesn't have 10gb port. what I am saying is solarflar doesn't work when you try to insert the network card inside the router computer. the eouteros doesn't load, doesn't start, freeze, or doesn't detect the solarflare network card even if it came up eventually. the Intel server card we bought does work perfect. so it's only support from the routeros which doesn't start unless it has support for the network card. now what I am asking is if you can put your Solarflare inside your router . I beleive you can't because I am not sure it has 4x pcie lane or more . that's what I want to know. and if you do connect it becuase you have 4x pcie lane will it detect and work. the best performance you will get is using solarflare as a router network card and computer server network card. the driver works fine in windows. one other thing you might not know is that you can have Large recieve send which you don't correctly have if you look on the device manager in windows which I've found out how took me some time is using old version and then install the new driver on top. which gives tons of performance.


----------



## darkane99

"you want as few USB controllers active at once as possible"

I got 3 different controllers.

2 standard enhanced PCI to USB Host controller
and 1 Intel (R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller.

Should I disable 2 of them and only use 1?

Or do you mean by "active" that I should only have devices in 1 of the controller not in all controllers?

Thanks


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Ideally your only USB device would be your mouse, and it would be plugged into a USB port managed by the enhanced PCI to USB host controller (eHCI) that has the better IRQ assignment. Here's an old and mildly embarrassing post I made about investigating IRQ assignments for USB controllers. And then you would disable xHCI, xHCI hand-off, and eHCI hand-off in the BIOS if your motherboard has those settings. And you could even disable the other unused eHCI controller in Device Manager if you wanted.

But since most people have other USB devices other than their mouse that they need always plugged in, the best solution would then be finding the better eHCI controller for your mouse as above and then plug all your other USB devices into USB ports managed by the other eHCI controller. Again, xHCI, xHCI hand-off, and eHCI hand-off should be disabled in BIOS if possible. So the end result is the mouse gets the eHCI controller with the better IRQ assignment all to itself, and the other USB devices share resources on the other eHCI controller.


----------



## sreten

My question is my friend is a PRO CS GO gamer and he wants to have the least amount of input lag in terms of NVIDIA settings, CS GO auto exec, configs, launch options, video file because those are the things he can change at LAN.

I seen your post on -threads and you shouldn't use it correct? You said just put +mat_que mode 2 or -1?

This is my launch options but I am not as knowledgeable as you I am not sure if they work well or not?

+mat_queue_priority 2 -noforce -noforcemaccel -noforcemparms -noforcemspd -noforcercemspd -nojoy -novid -noheap -nod3d9ex -noaafonts -noipx -console +exec autoexec -threads 2 -cpuCount=2 -exThreads=1

Are their certain sound settings he should use? What are the best settings to LEAST amount of INPUT LAG basically what I am asking?

Nvidia has alot of options to play with and which options will reduce input lag? such as texture filtering: quality or high performance? Do you want No Scaling and Display?

I am sorry for long message I just wanted it to be as clear as possible what I am asking .
I hope you can help us out and tell us which settings to use for CS GO and NVIDIA for Low Input Lag.

Thanks alot VolsAndJezuz, hope to hear from you soon smile.gif

I been reading posts on Overclock.net for years now

Oh yeah is their any mouse settings or DPI etc you recommend?


----------



## darkane99

Thank you for the respond.

But what is best, use 2 controllers with mouse in one of them and the other devices in the other. (2 controllers active)?

Or

Only one controller with every device in it (mouse, keyboard, headset etc)?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkane99*
> 
> Thank you for the respond.
> 
> But what is best, use 2 controllers with mouse in one of them and the other devices in the other. (2 controllers active)?
> 
> Or
> 
> Only one controller with every device in it (mouse, keyboard, headset etc)?


Two is "better".


----------



## gabecubano14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Two is "better".


So i have a question. So if two is better i have a z170 board with asmedia usb ports and intel ports. So would i put just the mouse in the intel ports and the keyboard which is the only other usb port i use in the asmedia port?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gabecubano14*
> 
> So i have a question. So if two is better i have a z170 board with asmedia usb ports and intel ports. So would i put just the mouse in the intel ports and the keyboard which is the only other usb port i use in the asmedia port?


Correct


----------



## sreten

Can someone with knowledge about INPUT Lag plz help me out?????

My question is my friend is a PRO CS GO gamer and he wants to have the least amount of input lag in terms of NVIDIA settings, CS GO auto exec, configs, launch options, video file because those are the things he can change at LAN.

I seen your post on -threads and you shouldn't use it correct? You said just put +mat_que mode 2 or -1?

This is my launch options but I am not as knowledgeable as you I am not sure if they work well or not?

+mat_queue_priority 2 -noforce -noforcemaccel -noforcemparms -noforcemspd -noforcercemspd -nojoy -novid -noheap -nod3d9ex -noaafonts -noipx -console +exec autoexec -threads 2 -cpuCount=2 -exThreads=1

Are their certain sound settings he should use? What are the best settings to LEAST amount of INPUT LAG basically what I am asking?

Nvidia has alot of options to play with and which options will reduce input lag? such as texture filtering: quality or high performance? Do you want No Scaling and Display?

I am sorry for long message I just wanted it to be as clear as possible what I am asking .
I hope you can help us out and tell us which settings to use for CS GO and NVIDIA for Low Input Lag.


----------



## x7007

Did you guys use UEFI ? Did you try to enable CSM enabled and boot to windows test the mouse movement and see if it changed ? Did you try to revert back to UEFI mode and boot to windows did it stayed the same like you didn't use UEFI mode ? I mean it's a following question because the 2nd one is waiting for the result of the first test. but I'm not sure it's only this, I also did both of this things and then I also change the Security boot to Windows/UEFI Mode instead Other OS , I think it's affecting badly for the windows. at least in a weird way maybe.

The mouse is so fast and accurate I find it hard to control because I'm using 2000 DPI without HPET enabled. but it wasn't so unaccurate before, just what normally what people feel like when the mouse is on the snow let's say. now it is just fast and normal like windows 7.. I think windows 10 people install windows in UEFI mode because of that there is this big change from windows 7 cause normally it wasn't exist on that time. so it's like bugging out. like Raid mode vs AHCI mode, windows can't read Raid mode with some software, almost same like UEFI, in some way it won't be able to read some changes happening before till you reset it to normal CSM mode and then back to UEFI. I think that's normally what Bios Reset should do, revert all changes and let the windows redetect any changes allow them to happen and then you change back to the "Protected Fast mode" if you can call it like that.

Can anyone test it ? did anyone notice it ? please reply, I think I'm on to something. I did the same on my laptop it seems to be better too. both ways both tries it's better.

EDIT: Just don't use Other Os in the UEFI mode.. it mess the mouse up.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Did you guys use UEFI ? Did you try to enable CSM enabled and boot to windows test the mouse movement and see if it changed ? Did you try to revert back to UEFI mode and boot to windows did it stayed the same like you didn't use UEFI mode ? I mean it's a following question because the 2nd one is waiting for the result of the first test. but I'm not sure it's only this, I also did both of this things and then I also change the Security boot to Windows/UEFI Mode instead Other OS , I think it's affecting badly for the windows. at least in a weird way maybe.
> 
> The mouse is so fast and accurate I find it hard to control because I'm using 2000 DPI without HPET enabled. but it wasn't so unaccurate before, just what normally what people feel like when the mouse is on the snow let's say. now it is just fast and normal like windows 7.. I think windows 10 people install windows in UEFI mode because of that there is this big change from windows 7 cause normally it wasn't exist on that time. so it's like bugging out. like Raid mode vs AHCI mode, windows can't read Raid mode with some software, almost same like UEFI, in some way it won't be able to read some changes happening before till you reset it to normal CSM mode and then back to UEFI. I think that's normally what Bios Reset should do, revert all changes and let the windows redetect any changes allow them to happen and then you change back to the "Protected Fast mode" if you can call it like that.
> 
> Can anyone test it ? did anyone notice it ? please reply, I think I'm on to something. I did the same on my laptop it seems to be better too. both ways both tries it's better.
> 
> EDIT: Just don't use Other Os in the UEFI mode.. it mess the mouse up.


TLDR please?


----------



## sreten

Can someone with knowledge about INPUT Lag plz help me out?????

My question is my friend is a PRO CS GO gamer and he wants to have the least amount of input lag in terms of NVIDIA settings, CS GO auto exec, configs, launch options, video file because those are the things he can change at LAN.

I seen your post on -threads and you shouldn't use it correct? You said just put +mat_que mode 2 or -1?

This is my launch options but I am not as knowledgeable as you I am not sure if they work well or not?

+mat_queue_priority 2 -noforce -noforcemaccel -noforcemparms -noforcemspd -noforcercemspd -nojoy -novid -noheap -nod3d9ex -noaafonts -noipx -console +exec autoexec -threads 2 -cpuCount=2 -exThreads=1

Are their certain sound settings he should use? What are the best settings to LEAST amount of INPUT LAG basically what I am asking?

Nvidia has alot of options to play with and which options will reduce input lag? such as texture filtering: quality or high performance? Do you want No Scaling and Display?

I am sorry for long message I just wanted it to be as clear as possible what I am asking .
I hope you can help us out and tell us which settings to use for CS GO and NVIDIA for Low Input Lag.


----------



## x7007

Does anyone here still with Intel 3xxx and Chipset Z7x ?

"Intel(R) Integrated Clock Controller Service - Intel(R) ICCS
Is a service that comes with XTU - Intel Extreme Tuning Utility including Intel WDT Watchdog, but that doesn't matter much.

Now if you use older chipset than P8 series then intel says this service is a must, even so more when you overclock.

Does anyone have this service ? did you ever had micro stuttering or slow fps issues ? I'm trying to find the culprit , because some services as we can see are needed for specific chipset that no longer apply for other chipsets and might not do anything or do harm. but what important is when those are needed and they are not installed or running.

now more than that, I had Intel MEI version 9.5.24.1790 which I tested, and after installing the XTU it updated my version to 11.0.0.1176 . Lastest for mother motherboard in asus site is 11.0.0.1155 which is also a beta.

"Intel(R) Integrated Clock Controller Service - Intel(R) ICCS" is a service used for accessing the integrated clock controller in the PCH to adjust the clocks to the CPU (BCLK, DPCLK, and DPNSCLK). The graphics driver uses this service to adjust the graphics clocks (DPCLK & DPNSCLK) to perform clock bending. Clock bending adjusts the display clock frequencies to reduce screen flicker. Originally access to the ICC registers was only available internally to the PCH's embedded controller (ME) so the registers were exposed to host through the HECI interface. On Intel® 8 Series PCHs and beyond, the HW has changed allowing the graphics driver to directly access the display clock registers, and the "Intel(R) Integrated Clock Controller Service" should not be necessary with those chipsets.
In addition the "Intel(R) Integrated Clock Controller Service" is used by the Intel eXtreme Tuning Utility (XTU) to perform overclocking. Overclocking is more complicated with its larger frequency range and dynamic configuration, so the PCH's embedded controller and SW service are used to abstract the ICC implementation.
Disabling "Intel(R) Integrated Clock Controller Service - Intel(R) ICCS" on Intel 8 Series PCHs will only impact the ability to do runtime overclocking with the XTU. With older chipsets, it will also disable the ability to do clock bending (meaning you may get additional screen flicker).


----------



## Unknownm

With so much updating with preview builds. I was tired of having to re-disable services one drive etc so I made a bat file to run with every update.

If you guys are interested here is a

TWEAKS.zip 2k .zip file


----------



## PurpleChef

Cant get mouse and keyboard on diffrent IRQs... Allways end up on IRQ18 or 20, and PCI Soundcard is on 20, so i dont want them to share IRQs...

Have 7 usb 2.0 on the back of my Sabertooth 990fx r2.0, and its all IRQ 18 or 20 when connecting my mouse. Do i need to enable Usb 3.0 controllers again just to get them on diffrent IRQs? worth? (soundcard dosnt work in msi mode)

Like you see on the picture i have 3 "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Controllers"

All with their own IRQs, but mouse or keyboard dosnt show up on any of them...

Weird thing is, when i connect my External hdd to one of the usb ports, it shows up under ""Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Controller" with its own IRQ, and then i remove it and put mouse in THE SAME port, and it ends up on IRQ18 anyways... im a ******ed or what... i dont get it









Windows 7 fresh install


Also finds this interesting, the "Advanced" tab
"Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" 20% system reserved
"Standard OpenHCD...." 10% system reserverd, and that 2%, what is that?

Does this mean mouse should be on Standard Enh... ?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> 
> Cant get mouse and keyboard on diffrent IRQs... Allways end up on IRQ18 or 20, and PCI Soundcard is on 20, so i dont want them to share IRQs...
> 
> Have 7 usb 2.0 on the back of my Sabertooth 990fx r2.0, and its all IRQ 18 or 20 when connecting my mouse. Do i need to enable Usb 3.0 controllers again just to get them on diffrent IRQs? worth? (soundcard dosnt work in msi mode)
> 
> Like you see on the picture i have 3 "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Controllers"
> 
> All with their own IRQs, but mouse or keyboard dosnt show up on any of them...
> 
> Weird thing is, when i connect my External hdd to one of the usb ports, it shows up under ""Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Controller" with its own IRQ, and then i remove it and put mouse in THE SAME port, and it ends up on IRQ18 anyways... im a ******ed or what... i dont get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windows 7 fresh install
> 
> 
> Also finds this interesting, the "Advanced" tab
> "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" 20% system reserved
> "Standard OpenHCD...." 10% system reserverd, and that 2%, what is that?
> 
> Does this mean mouse should be on Standard Enh... ?


its not necessary bro always the lag come from monitor remember that


----------



## s-x

You guys are crazy with this, 3000+ posts over 3 years. I wish someone just made a definitive list instead of having to check all these different posts, or made a program that would perform ther majority of OS tweaks (I'd throw $100 towards it), because I simply do not want to go through this entire thread to figure out what to do, what has been debunked, etc.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x*
> 
> You guys are crazy with this, 3000+ posts over 3 years. I wish someone just made a definitive list instead of having to check all these different posts, or made a program that would perform ther majority of OS tweaks (I'd throw $100 towards it), because I simply do not want to go through this entire thread to figure out what to do, what has been debunked, etc.


Almost nothing here is definitive though.

The vast majority of these items are either entirely subjective, dependent on specific hardware configurations, or both.

Furthermore, most of the items that _are_ definitive have serious drawbacks on system usability, and therefore must be assessed on a per-need basis.

I understand your frustration, and it certainly could be little cleaner, but it is extremely unlikely this particular thread will ever be what you are hoping for. You are of course free to compile your own table and submit it if you feel so compelled (or perhaps hire someone to do just that).


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Almost nothing here is definitive though.
> 
> The vast majority of these items are either entirely subjective, dependent on specific hardware configurations, or both.
> 
> Furthermore, most of the items that _are_ definitive have serious drawbacks on system usability, and therefore must be assessed on a per-need basis.
> 
> I understand your frustration, and it certainly could be little cleaner, but it is extremely unlikely this particular thread will ever be what you are hoping for. You are of course free to compile your own table and submit it if you feel so compelled (or perhaps hire someone to do just that).


I understand that many of these changes will impact daily use for most people, such as ditching java/flash and stopping windows services, however that can easily be mitigated by dual booting and having one OS for pure gaming and the other for daily use. I dont think anyone would go about making a tweaked image of windows for $100, but I definitely feel like there is a larger market for one. There are 12M people that are actively running the steam client, lets say 1% of them would dual boot into a tweaked OS, that's still 120,000 people from steam alone. Say 10% of them are willing to donate $10, and that's 120k. If people are willing to make 3000 posts on one forum, I think the user base would be large enough for a person or small group to make this a profitable endeavor.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s-x*
> 
> I understand that many of these changes will impact daily use for most people, such as ditching java/flash and stopping windows services, however that can easily be mitigated by dual booting and having one OS for pure gaming and the other for daily use. I dont think anyone would go about making a tweaked image of windows for $100, but I definitely feel like there is a larger market for one. There are 12M people that are actively running the steam client, lets say 1% of them would dual boot into a tweaked OS, that's still 120,000 people from steam alone. Say 10% of them are willing to donate $10, and that's 120k. If people are willing to make 3000 posts on one forum, I think the user base would be large enough for a person or small group to make this a profitable endeavor.


So... you mean like Steam OS?


----------



## jtl999

Isn't Steam OS just modified Debian, which could be OK.


----------



## s-x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> So... you mean like Steam OS?


Not really, im pretty sure steamOS isnt actually tweaked for optimum performance, it just takes the native pro's and cons of debian (linux) and adds steam on top of it. I'd much rather have a windows 10 OS that was trimmed and modified.


----------



## cimi

Hi guys,i have terible lag with my mouse,it feels floaty,i try everyting from this topic.

Just want to ask is this IRQ priority normal,and should i change it?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cimi*
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,i have terible lag with my mouse,it feels floaty,i try everyting from this topic.
> 
> Just want to ask is this IRQ priority normal,and should i change it?


Those devices are showing that because they're running in message signaled interrupt mode. If you check the device manager it will show them as a negative number. It's perfectly normal.


----------



## Friard

I'm currently running windows 7 and I have an asus z170 motherboard. I've done a bunch of the bios changes and it improved my dpc latency dramatically from 100-500us to ~20-30 and my mouse also feels more responsive. People have been mentioning usb drivers and usb 2.0 vs usb 3.0. What drivers should I get and what usb should I be using to further increase responsiveness. Please use laymen's terms if it's a complex process.


----------



## 357887

My keyboard (Razer Arctosa) has 1000hz polling rate out of the box, if I wanted to lower it, would this method here work?
http://www.overclock.net/t/596276/changing-usb-polling-rate-to-1000hz-or-lower

Also I heard each USB device should have their own separate IRQ, any word on USB 3.0 and if I should use it as well?

Nvm, it appears all my USB ports only have one IRQ no matter which USB port I plug my device in...



Motherboard: ASUS p8b75-m


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaun279*
> 
> My keyboard (Razer Arctosa) has 1000hz polling rate out of the box, if I wanted to lower it, would this method here work?
> http://www.overclock.net/t/596276/changing-usb-polling-rate-to-1000hz-or-lower
> 
> Also I heard each USB device should have their own separate IRQ, any word on USB 3.0 and if I should use it as well?
> 
> Nvm, it appears all my USB ports only have one IRQ no matter which USB port I plug my device in...
> 
> 
> 
> Motherboard: ASUS p8b75-m


On my Corsair Strafe keyboard i can change between 125/500/1000 if i download the corsair utility for the keyboard. its set at 125 now







<
Maybe your keyboard software has the setting to


----------



## 357887

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> On my Corsair Strafe keyboard i can change between 125/500/1000 if i download the corsair utility for the keyboard. its set at 125 now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <
> Maybe your keyboard software has the setting to


before completely uninstalling razer synapse 2.0, there were no settings to change polling for my keyboard if I remember correctly. I may have overlooked it, though I don't really want to install it again


----------



## altf4

http://www.coolermaster.com/peripheral/keyboards/quickfiretk/ I don't think if i can change polling rate on mine, would like to try out 500 or 125 :/


----------



## 357887

woaps wrong thread.


----------



## Sptz

Why would OP recommend texture filtering High Quality as opposed to Performance?


----------



## 357887

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*
> 
> Why would OP recommend texture filtering High Quality as opposed to Performance?


Quote:


> The available options are High Performance, Performance, Quality and High Quality, and each setting has the following impact:
> 
> High Performance: Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Sample Optimization is set to On, and Texture Filtering - Trilinear Optimization is set to On.
> Performance: Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Sample Optimization is set to On, and Texture Filtering - Trilinear Optimization is set to On.
> Quality: Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Sample Optimization is set to Off, and Texture Filtering - Trilinear Optimization is set to On.
> High Quality: Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Sample Optimization is set to Off, and Texture Filtering - Trilinear Optimization is set to Off (it shows as being On but is ignored by the driver).


Anisotropic and Trilinear Optimization probably affect latency since High Quality is the only setting with it both off.

Source


----------



## hylight

Best 770 gpu driver?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hylight*
> 
> Best 770 gpu driver?


I'd say EVGA.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Guys, I've made some testing.
> 
> For me it changes something or changed a lot, still there is something weird happening but I didn't test it right now after some more changes I did.
> 
> I'll start with the game Need For Speed The Run which crashed randomly every time with weird error called Exception code: 0x80000003
> 
> ERROR
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Faulting application name: Need For Speed The Run.exe, version: 1.1.0.0, time stamp: 0x4f14cf9c
> Faulting module name: Need For Speed The Run.exe, version: 1.1.0.0, time stamp: 0x4f14cf9c
> Exception code: 0x80000003
> Fault offset: 0x0071496e
> Faulting process id: 0xca8
> Faulting application start time: 0x01d2285e66643090
> Faulting application path: F:\Gamez\Need for Speed The Run\Need For Speed The Run.exe
> Faulting module path: F:\Gamez\Need for Speed The Run\Need For Speed The Run.exe
> Report Id: 6b5c1d90-9054-405d-880b-df3ab2f4356e
> Faulting package full name:
> Faulting package-relative application ID:
> 
> 
> 
> Then it crashed with Exception code: 0xc0000005
> 
> I thought it crashes because I am using Reshade 3.0 + SuperDepth3D for 3D effect which works Awsome I must say. but it wasn't the case, it still crashed without it.
> 
> Now the game crashed randomly means at first when I restart a race/retry, then it crashed non stop when I crashed a car or just anything, then it crashed non stop when I crashed a police car in the same specific place all the time.
> 
> So I got sick and started checking things, all other games had weird issues, but last game I played Attack On Titan didn't crash ones and I tested Prime95 for some time at least 30 min with full ram test 12.5GB which I wanted to test all of it. nothing happened and all other games GTA V and Witcher 3 - heavy games are working fine.
> 
> First I tried closing all the software I had.
> ESET Antivirus only RealTime Scanning was enabled - so I disabled
> TeamViewer - Closed
> SoliCall Pro - For Skype - Closed
> Skype - Closed
> Utorrent 2.2.1 - Closed
> 
> No other software or service was opened. I only used Xbox Elite Controller fully updated which I used with Attack on Titans .
> 
> So I tried
> Reinstalling the game - didn't fix
> Compability mode - 7 , 8 - 8 was working fine for a while but it crashed again very much.
> 
> Now I had Intel IMEI ( Intel Managment Engine Interface ) version 10.x.x.x or something and windows installs version 11.0.5.x
> It helped a bit but not much, so I lowered it to 9.5 .
> I used before IRST ( Intel Rapid Storage ) 1.4.8.0.xxx so I updated it to 14.8.9.1053 .
> I enabled HPET
> 
> The game ran for pretty much 3-4 hrs straight till it crashed ones again. I never used Alt+Tab.
> 
> So I kept going went to bios and changed Cpu Power Response Control from Medium to Fast.
> In windows I added the command Bcdedit /set DisableDynamicTick On because I don't use Wake Timers or C1E and such, only EIST.
> 
> Now I need to test the game again, but one thing is certain. I had 45 Fps in Skyrim before all this thing when I used Tridef S3D. but randomly before even without Tridef I had 45 Fps , I had no idea why. in windows 7 it worked fine even with 970GTX and now I have 1080GTX.
> 
> After all this I have 800+ Fps without Tridef in the castle or whatever and with Tridef I have 200 Fps + , which before I couldn't even reach it. Something changed. Nothing here is certain, but finally I can finish this game. The Fps was just stuck on 45 no matter what resolution or graphics quality I used !! you need to take that in count, and it only happened in specific games . so finally now they work fine. Now I need to check Tomb Raider because the issue happened there too, I had 90-87 even when using 3D (Reshade+SuperDepth3D) !! Fps and for some reason it lowered to 60 and when I enable the 3D it goes even lower ! so it was driving me insane, now I need to check this, how to fix it. I hope it might help you check or what to check so we can compare.
> 
> The mouse control is amazing now, I'm using Logitech G502 without the LGS Software and the mouse is just smooth even with HPET, HPET does affect the mouse, but if all other thing are properly well and set it won't affect it at all !
> 
> Here is some proof that's Skyrim works 190 Fps in Tridef 3D S3D (which mean it's real 3D) which is more heavy resource and you need very strong gpu to run heavy games. which was funny because No 3D or P3D which is Power3D (Fake 3D) didn't even made difference when I had the issue, the FPS just stuck 45-50 Fps.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we need to use specific Intel Management Engine Interface driver for specific motherboard and not just the new one, I think it is causing issues. I didn't change much expect the things I just said.


Not sure what fixed my issue with tomb raider, but I'm getting 71-98 Fps with SuperDepth3D now with 2560x1440 with everything Ultra.

I had an WHQL issue in Dxdiag when I was on the Display tab, after seeing more people having the issue in Guru3d.com they said using Clean Profiles in the nvidia driver installer fix the issue, and it did. now I'm getting no problems found. and I also reinstalled the game.


----------



## Spieler4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Friard*
> 
> I'm currently running windows 7 and I have an asus z170 motherboard. I've done a bunch of the bios changes and it improved my dpc latency dramatically from 100-500us to ~20-30 and my mouse also feels more responsive. People have been mentioning usb drivers and usb 2.0 vs usb 3.0. What drivers should I get and what usb should I be using to further increase responsiveness. Please use laymen's terms if it's a complex process.


If you dont have any usb3 devices -> dont install it
Try just using windows default usb drivers.
Do not connect more devices to pc than you need to use
Try watching dpc latency while removing usb devices and / or switching ports


----------



## Sptz

LatencyMon is reporting an average of 27us which I believe is pretty good right?

Though I'd like to disable HPET but my Asus Z97 Pro doesn't come with that option. Disabling in the Device Manager would probably cause all kinds of havoc right? Since it'd be enabled by default in the BIOS but disabled in the OS?


----------



## kjovisc

deleted.


----------



## kjovisc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*
> 
> LatencyMon is reporting an average of 27us which I believe is pretty good right?
> 
> Though I'd like to disable HPET but my Asus Z97 Pro doesn't come with that option. Disabling in the Device Manager would probably cause all kinds of havoc right? Since it'd be enabled by default in the BIOS but disabled in the OS?


Some mb's just don't have the option to disable and you have to live with it. Hope it helps.


----------



## jorj02

hey my mouse is on IRQ 20 and not IRQ 23 its should be okay? or need change it? i use keyboard on PS2 so the mouse not share same IRQ on keyboard


----------



## knowom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> You're just reiterating what I said, that the results should be used as a baseline result. You need to provide the system under some type of load to make the baseline results relevant. Again, play a game, stream some music, watch an HD video, etc.
> 
> And you don't need a standard. Your system can either handle, or not handle the latency well. That's it, nothing more to it. Once you get to below <500µs, the results start to become diminishable. The fact that some people say they can feel a difference in something like a <100µs improvement from disabling bios features and services is questionable when you look at the numbers:
> 
> 1µs = 0.001ms
> 100µs = 0.1ms
> 200µs = 0.2ms


I disagree with that statement below 500us the results aren't diminished the results are linear no matter what it's just above 500us it begins to becoming more easily readily transparent for daily usage to the average user under certain circumstances. Someone using SLI/Crossfire and/or higher refresh rate displays and/or music hardware and/or other things of that nature would more easily tell the difference. To say it makes a negligible difference is like saying polyphony and multitimbral make a negligible difference beyond a certain point "black midi don't lie" it begs to differ with your assessment. I get what your trying to say however, but let's not skew the facts to make your point. Sure PC's have a lot of headroom in the majority of cases so worry about a few ms latency probably isn't a huge priority or concern to most users, but there will always be some unusual cases where users wish they had a bit more headroom to play with at the same time be it to fold proteins or whatever the case may be. That last example is probably the best place to start if trying to pester Nvidia or AMD on the subject matter a lot of people fold at home and could be doing so just a eek bit better perhaps.


----------



## 357887

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorj02*
> 
> hey my mouse is on IRQ 20 and not IRQ 23 its should be okay? or need change it? i use keyboard on PS2 so the mouse not share same IRQ on keyboard


as long as there is no other device on the IRQ other than your keyboard/mouse, you're fine


----------



## jorj02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaun279*
> 
> as long as there is no other device on the IRQ other than your keyboard/mouse, you're fine


thanks this is my IRQ

i was able change usb IRQ TO 23











can you tell me if its okay ?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorj02*
> 
> thanks this is my IRQ
> 
> i was able change usb IRQ TO 23
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can you tell me if its okay ?


It's ok. It's exactly like mine.
http://i.imgur.com/XRmT5qu.jpg


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> It's ok. It's exactly like mine.
> http://i.imgur.com/XRmT5qu.jpg


what did you do ?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> what did you do ?


What do you mean what did I do?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> What do you mean what did I do?


how did you guys make it use 23 irq usb ?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> how did you guys make it use 23 irq usb ?


I just plugged in my keyboard to a USB 2.0 Port and my mouse to a USB 3.0 port. I have nothing else on the other usb ports.


----------



## pox02

just test that internet lan

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCIE-PCI-Express-x1-to-Ethernet-Gigabit-RJ45-10-100-1000Mbps-LAN-Network-Card-/311660887602?hash=item48906fbe32:g:xpAAAOSwIgNXkEWm

im so happy


----------



## Nastya

Do USB DACs cause higher DPC latency? I'm in the market for one so I can free one of my PCIe slots.


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Do USB DACs cause higher DPC latency? I'm in the market for one so I can free one of my PCIe slots.


I would think onboard sound card would cause higher DPC spikes than USB audio. Mind you I'm using audio 1 with my e7 fiio.


----------



## 357887

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Do USB DACs cause higher DPC latency? I'm in the market for one so I can free one of my PCIe slots.


yes they definitely do, I own a Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro. When audio is played, my DPC latency spikes up 100+.

I would use the on board audio instead, I have set mine to 24 bit 96000 sample rate and didnt notice any change in mouse latency or music quality.
16 bit 44000 sounds horrid, couldnt get used to it


----------



## x7007

One thing I noticed about TV's and HDMI port, for me I had bad HDMI 1 port which cause me weird mouse stuttering + jittering.

I report what I wrote here

For me Philips 7007 has an issue with HDMI 1 with serious input lag compare to others. Still I haven't checked them, but my PS3 Connected to HDMI 5 I think and I didn't have any issues. but all this time I didn't know what causing issues with my mouse, changing , it's like some kind of mouse acceleration + Input lag + jittering combined , I changed mouse, Logitech G502, checked another G502, change every setting in the bios, change windows 7 or 10, drivers, different usb ports. And now I said enough I'll change different hdmi port from 1 to 3 and suddenly the mouse is perfect like with my laptop which is 100 Hz + Gsync , Asus G751JT .

I can't believe that HDMI port can be screw up, I don't know how I can explain it and get warranty &#8230; I'm so sad about that , and I wasted 1 year can't play games properly.

http://hdtelevizija.com/en/2016/03/13/does-hdmi-cable-length-affect-input-lag/

I also put GTX1080 in MSI mode and ZXR creative card. I also re enabled HPET to check.

Still need to check if changing my mouse to USB 3 will be better.

For my friend he has MSI z97MX gaming 5 motherboard with Orange USB ports which is like USB 2 but windows see it as Intel USB 3 .. and his latencymon doesn't cause high jumps when he move the mouse on the USBPORT.SYS , for me it jumps when I am using 1000 hz Logitech G502 , using the intel USB 3 connector is almost the same as his.. it's something weird. those new mobos are really good with the USB connectors , fixing any issues that might be with the DPC with 1000 hz Mouse + Keyboard.


----------



## KarathKasun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> One thing I noticed about TV's and HDMI port, for me I had bad HDMI 1 port which cause me weird mouse stuttering + jittering.
> 
> I report what I wrote here
> 
> For me Philips 7007 has an issue with HDMI 1 with serious input lag compare to others. Still I haven't checked them, but my PS3 Connected to HDMI 5 I think and I didn't have any issues. but all this time I didn't know what causing issues with my mouse, changing , it's like some kind of mouse acceleration + Input lag + jittering combined , I changed mouse, Logitech G502, checked another G502, change every setting in the bios, change windows 7 or 10, drivers, different usb ports. And now I said enough I'll change different hdmi port from 1 to 3 and suddenly the mouse is perfect like with my laptop which is 100 Hz + Gsync , Asus G751JT .
> 
> I can't believe that HDMI port can be screw up, I don't know how I can explain it and get warranty &#8230; I'm so sad about that , and I wasted 1 year can't play games properly.
> 
> http://hdtelevizija.com/en/2016/03/13/does-hdmi-cable-length-affect-input-lag/
> 
> I also put GTX1080 in MSI mode and ZXR creative card. I also re enabled HPET to check.
> 
> Still need to check if changing my mouse to USB 3 will be better.
> 
> For my friend he has MSI z97MX gaming 5 motherboard with Orange USB ports which is like USB 2 but windows see it as Intel USB 3 .. and his latencymon doesn't cause high jumps when he move the mouse on the USBPORT.SYS , for me it jumps when I am using 1000 hz Logitech G502 , using the intel USB 3 connector is almost the same as his.. it's something weird. those new mobos are really good with the USB connectors , fixing any issues that might be with the DPC with 1000 hz Mouse + Keyboard.


Some TV's have settings you can program on a per port basis. I have a few that require you to manually change the input label to 'PC' for the internal post processing to be disabled. Took forever to figure that one out. On another set I had to change the post process setting to 'gaming'. One of the reasons I stopped gaming on TV's.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> Some TV's have settings you can program on a per port basis. I have a few that require you to manually change the input label to 'PC' for the internal post processing to be disabled. Took forever to figure that one out. On another set I had to change the post process setting to 'gaming'. One of the reasons I stopped gaming on TV's.


I tried them all, still only HDMI 1 causing the issue.


----------



## jorj02

i found something will help someone

when your mouse connect to usb 2.0 try move fast right-left you will see high DPC spikes now Connect the Mouse on USB 3.0 and move fast right-left beem no latency anymore now disable those two 

now enjoy the much snappy mouse movement you ever dream on


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorj02*
> 
> i found something will help someone
> 
> when your mouse connect to usb 2.0 try move fast right-left you will see high DPC spikes now Connect the Mouse on USB 3.0 and move fast right-left beem no latency anymore now disable those two
> 
> now enjoy the much snappy mouse movement you ever dream on


Do you leave the mouse plugged on the USB 3.0 port?


----------



## jorj02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Do you leave the mouse plugged on the USB 3.0 port?


yes


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorj02*
> 
> yes


So let me get this straight:

Plug mouse to USB 2.0 port, Move fast left-right -> High DPC Spikes should appear?

Unplug and replug mouse to mouse 3.0, Move fast left-right again
and THEN disable both "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller"

right?


----------



## jorj02

yes


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorj02*
> 
> yes


ok just saw that i can't even disable them i can only uninstall them...


----------



## kittinzaa

I'm also experienced the same things USB 3.0 port give better responsive than 2.0.


----------



## Zero4549

Modern systems have native usb 3.0 with 2.0 added via emulation or (usually absolute bargain basement) third party addons.

Older systems had native 2.0 with various hacks and (typically low quality) third party add on adapters for 3.0.

It only makes sense that older systems will have better response via 2.0 and newer systems via 3.0.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jorj02*
> 
> i found something will help someone
> 
> when your mouse connect to usb 2.0 try move fast right-left you will see high DPC spikes now Connect the Mouse on USB 3.0 and move fast right-left beem no latency anymore now disable those two
> 
> now enjoy the much snappy mouse movement you ever dream on


Feels sluggish probably because mouse and keyboard are on the same IRQ, for me.


----------



## PurpleChef

All this talk about onboard audio causing higher dpc latency etc, i dont notice any of that. Using the onboard soundcard (for mic) + old esi @juli pci soundcard (for audio out), and no problem with dpc latency or "laggy" mouse what so ever.
Win 8.1 is super smooth.
Tryed W7 multiple times and it just dosnt run smooth on my system, so i wouldnt recommend it to any amd user.
Ive chased the low latency numbers, but when gaming etc tbh i cant feel any diffrence. This thread can get to your head, just saying, dont stare yourself blind by numbers


----------



## zeazear

Does your mices also use 1.1 usb instead of 2.0. Mine is using openhcd instead of enhanced controller, I dont know if that makes any difference, but would like too know. And it seems impossible for me to get the "23" IRQ, because all the usb ports only use 20 and 18.


----------



## lio256

It's usually not the audio drivers which are a source of DPC latency but you can hear the result of latency when listening to audio. Sources of latency are usually USB controllers, SATA controllers and Network adapters. One tip is to try to switch these devices to use Message Signalled-Based Interrupts instead of Line Signal-Based Interrupts if their drivers support it.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> Modern systems have native usb 3.0 with 2.0 added via emulation or (usually absolute bargain basement) third party addons.
> 
> Older systems had native 2.0 with various hacks and (typically low quality) third party add on adapters for 3.0.
> 
> It only makes sense that older systems will have better response via 2.0 and newer systems via 3.0.


I don't remember if I asked or told here at all . my friend has msi z97mx motherboard with blue and orange usb ports. for some reason the orange are using the usb3.sys driver and not the normal usb2.sys . so it doesn't use alot ISR and DPC . the thing is I don't remember if the devices were shown on the intel3 windows device or the usb2 device which is the reason I am saying this and don't understand.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lio256*
> 
> It's usually not the audio drivers which are a source of DPC latency but you can hear the result of latency when listening to audio. Sources of latency are usually USB controllers, SATA controllers and Network adapters. One tip is to try to switch these devices to use Message Signalled-Based Interrupts instead of Line Signal-Based Interrupts if their drivers support it.


For USB Controllers, which one do I need to put in MSI-Mode? The one that's having my mouse or it doesn't make any difference?
I have a USB controller solely for my mouse (iRQ 23)

Edit:







Well I tried enabling MSI on both of my USB controllers, it won't work. Only network, SATA controller & Intel Management Interface are in MSI-mode.


----------



## lio256

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Only network, SATA controller & Intel Management Interface are in MSI-mode.


Have you any other pci devices not using MSI?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lio256*
> 
> Have you any other pci devices not using MSI?


Tell me the ones I should try
http://i.imgur.com/rzVfcTf.jpg


----------



## emka

How do I fix this?


----------



## lio256

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Tell me the ones I should try
> http://i.imgur.com/rzVfcTf.jpg


I would move all pci express root ports and NVidia graphics card. It also may be worth moving High Definition Audio Controllers and disable any controllers you are not using. You do seem to have at least one USB controller in MSI mode. Also, does running in performance mode make a difference to dpc latency?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emka*
> 
> 
> 
> How do I fix this?


https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff544246(v=vs.85).aspx

As always when making changes to the registry backup your registry before making changes.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lio256*
> 
> I would move all pci express root ports and NVidia graphics card. It also may be worth moving High Definition Audio Controllers and disable any controllers you are not using. You do seem to have at least one USB controller in MSI mode. Also, does running in performance mode make a difference to dpc latency?


Like I said putting USB controllers in MSI won't work with my system. Number is still positive.
Also for some reason when I put my Graphics Card in MSI-mode, feels bad in-game and mouse movement is somehow different so I let it in normal irq mode.

I put these two in MSI-Mode last night. http://i.imgur.com/pI9mDoS.jpg
Played a few games on League and CS & it feels a lot more snappy and reponsive.

(I don't know if I should putting MSI mode on the other *2 pci express root ports* since they already are on an iRQ of their own, it might not change anything but not sure.)


----------



## lio256

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Like I said putting USB controllers in MSI won't work with my system. Number is still positive.
> Also for some reason when I put my Graphics Card in MSI-mode, feels bad in-game and mouse movement is somehow different so I let it in normal irq mode.
> 
> I put these two in MSI-Mode last night. http://i.imgur.com/pI9mDoS.jpg
> Played a few games on League and CS & it feels a lot more snappy and reponsive.
> 
> (I don't know if I should putting MSI mode on the other *2 pci express root ports* since they already are on an iRQ of their own, it might not change anything but not sure.)


If MSI for USB root hub isn't supported then you should deselect it in that program you are using, as this could cause stability issues if it's set incorrectly in the registry. If your latency has improved then it's likely you've found the cause of your issues and don't need to further change anything.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lio256*
> 
> If MSI for USB root hub isn't supported then you should deselect it in that program you are using, as this could cause stability issues if it's set incorrectly in the registry. If your latency has improved then it's likely you've found the cause of your issues and don't need to further change anything.


That I did. Thank's for warning me again though.


----------



## emka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lio256*
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff544246(v=vs.85).aspx
> 
> As always when making changes to the registry backup your registry before making changes.


Will this work if I do it this way? with msi_utli


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emka*
> 
> Will this work if I do it this way? with msi_utli


Why not everything?


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kurtextrem*
> 
> Why not everything?


I don't think it's healthy for the system to have everything in MSI-mode, I might be wrong though. I heard audio controllers should never be put in MSI-mode aswell. Only SATA, Network, & USB Controllers. Graphics card is at your discretion. Not too sure about pci express roots though & other stuff.


----------



## kurtextrem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> I don't think it's healthy for the system to have everything in MSI-mode, I might be wrong though. I heard audio controllers should never be put in MSI-mode aswell. Only SATA, Network, & USB Controllers. Graphics card is at your discretion. Not too sure about pci express roots though & other stuff.


I've put everything into MSI mode. I heard the same about audio controllers, however that might only be true for the (midly s**tty) on-board things from Realtek. Had no issues with the Creative driver in MSI mode so far.


----------



## x7007

On my laptop asus rog G751JT .The weird thing if it's so dangerous to put Realtek soundcard on Msi mode why I always have it on Msi mode automatically after uninstalling and installing the realtek drivers ? also the Nvidia 970m drivers also automatically on Msi mode. so if the laptop can why not normal puter desktop.


----------



## Sptz

Is it worth to switch the GFX to MSI mode? Any noticeable and measurable latency improvements?

I can see on my device manager that usb hub, ethernet and other chipset related things are by default in MSI mode.

This my LatencyMon report after 11 minutes running. Everything seems ok right?
Quote:


> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CONCLUSION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
> LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:11:42 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> SYSTEM INFORMATION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Computer name: PEDRO-PC
> OS version: Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
> Hardware: All Series, ASUS, ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., Z97-PRO
> CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz
> Logical processors: 4
> Processor groups: 1
> RAM: 16324 MB total
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU SPEED
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Reported CPU speed: 3506 MHz
> Measured CPU speed: 1 MHz (approx.)
> 
> Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.
> 
> WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 158.006259
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1.573537
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 156.838006
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.621414
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED ISRs
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.
> 
> Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 178.851683
> Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.057361
> Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.064688
> 
> ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 172644
> ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED DPCs
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.
> 
> Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 441.419852
> Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 376.19 , NVIDIA Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.049418
> Driver with highest DPC total execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 376.19 , NVIDIA Corporation
> 
> Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.068851
> 
> DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 675937
> DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 3
> DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.
> 
> Process with highest pagefault count: latmon.exe
> 
> Total number of hard pagefaults 85
> Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 77
> Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 476.687393
> Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.000283
> Number of processes hit: 5
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> PER CPU DATA
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 3.888159
> CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 178.851683
> CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 1.817893
> CPU 0 ISR count: 172629
> CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 441.419852
> CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 1.737119
> CPU 0 DPC count: 501860
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.184866
> CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.627781
> CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.000002
> CPU 1 ISR count: 15
> CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 29.393041
> CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0.040762
> CPU 1 DPC count: 48516
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.237189
> CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
> CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
> CPU 2 ISR count: 0
> CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 90.808043
> CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0.074515
> CPU 2 DPC count: 59520
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.208062
> CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
> CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
> CPU 3 ISR count: 0
> CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 29.258414
> CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0.082497
> CPU 3 DPC count: 66044
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*


It always worth.

Using USB 3 for mouse using 1000 hz is Worth ALOT . because it uses less DPC Interrupts and no ISR at all because it is using MSI mode not like USB 2 port. so that's 2 bonuses. less CPU USAGE and less CPU Interrupts from the SYS file/device.

On some devices it improves the Latency or the Performance / FPS . so again, if LAPTOP uses it, why not on desktop ?? someone else said Nvidia QUADRO cards uses MSI on default, so why wouldn't the GTX card use it ? and another example , ATI uses MSI Mode, on laptop and on Desktop, so why wouldn't GTX work MSI mode ?

all this example shows that it could should and be.

if it does improve performance, hard to really say because we need to really check with a lot of programs, and this days games are really crappy with performance so you couldn't tell if anything happens because the game engine, overlay program MSI afterburner , windows, and all the other things.


----------



## Sptz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> It always worth.
> 
> Using USB 3 for mouse using 1000 hz is Worth ALOT . because it uses less DPC Interrupts and no ISR at all because it is using MSI mode not like USB 2 port. so that's 2 bonuses. less CPU USAGE and less CPU Interrupts from the SYS file/device.
> 
> On some devices it improves the Latency or the Performance / FPS . so again, if LAPTOP uses it, why not on desktop ?? someone else said Nvidia QUADRO cards uses MSI on default, so why wouldn't the GTX card use it ? and another example , ATI uses MSI Mode, on laptop and on Desktop, so why wouldn't GTX work MSI mode ?
> 
> all this example shows that it could should and be.
> 
> if it does improve performance, hard to really say because we need to really check with a lot of programs, and this days games are really crappy with performance so you couldn't tell if anything happens because the game engine, overlay program MSI afterburner , windows, and all the other things.


I'm already using my mouse in USB3 and 1000hz polrate.

Changing my GFX card to MSI with the MSI Util, is it just a case of changing it and rebooting? Or will I have to re-install drivers etc?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*
> 
> I'm already using my mouse in USB3 and 1000hz polrate.
> 
> Changing my GFX card to MSI with the MSI Util, is it just a case of changing it and rebooting? Or will I have to re-install drivers etc?


just restart


----------



## Sptz

I did it through the registry and after a reboot these are my results.
Quote:


> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CONCLUSION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
> LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:07:59 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> SYSTEM INFORMATION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Computer name: PEDRO-PC
> OS version: Windows 8 , 6.2, build: 9200 (x64)
> Hardware: All Series, ASUS, ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., Z97-PRO
> CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz
> Logical processors: 4
> Processor groups: 1
> RAM: 16324 MB total
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU SPEED
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Reported CPU speed: 3506 MHz
> Measured CPU speed: 1 MHz (approx.)
> 
> Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.
> 
> WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 164.723619
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1.222523
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 86.158631
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.428561
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED ISRs
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.
> 
> Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 7.642613
> Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.000290
> Driver with highest ISR total time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation
> 
> Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.000481
> 
> ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 34225
> ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED DPCs
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.
> 
> Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 179.955790
> Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 376.19 , NVIDIA Corporation
> 
> Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.057004
> Driver with highest DPC total execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 376.19 , NVIDIA Corporation
> 
> Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.095022
> 
> DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 1047680
> DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
> DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.
> 
> NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.
> 
> Process with highest pagefault count: microsoft.photos.exe
> 
> Total number of hard pagefaults 2564
> Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 1086
> Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 218098.760696
> Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.059634
> Number of processes hit: 17
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> PER CPU DATA
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 3.740658
> CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 7.642613
> CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 0.009183
> CPU 0 ISR count: 34048
> CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 179.955790
> CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 1.701713
> CPU 0 DPC count: 957941
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.334060
> CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 1.056475
> CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.000056
> CPU 1 ISR count: 177
> CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 29.735026
> CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0.035043
> CPU 1 DPC count: 27633
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.347640
> CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
> CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
> CPU 2 ISR count: 0
> CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 29.571021
> CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0.038722
> CPU 2 DPC count: 29524
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0.348738
> CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
> CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
> CPU 3 ISR count: 0
> CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 29.644039
> CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0.048704
> CPU 3 DPC count: 32582
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Overall it seems better but CPUs interrupt cycle time seem to have gone up a bit. Not sure if it's overall beneficial or not?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*


its really random.. depends if you use eist or power saving and some bios settings. and you still have devices connected to usb 2 port which causes ISR and DPC


----------



## Sptz

I don't use EIST nor any C-states. I need to have stuff plugged into usb 2.0 though as I don't have enough ports.

It does look better in general in LatencyMon, doesn't feel any different I think though.


----------



## rivage

Looking for a Soundcard to replace crappy Realtek audio chip.

If you guys have any suggestions, greatly appreciated!


----------



## k2viper

Hey guys,
I'm going to replace my old good i5-2500k with new i7-7700k and z270, but I'm still not sure is it worth installing Windows 10, or I should stick with W7 in terms of overall ingame input lag?

I'm a twitch shooter player (Overwatch currently), and have a 1070 GPU.
I've setup win10 on my wife's rig, and there w10 felt just fine and had less background processes and consumed less memory, then my lightly tweaked win7. But I cannot directly evaluate input lag and overall mouse feel on her rig ingame, cause it's weak and have no graphics card.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *k2viper*
> 
> Hey guys,
> I'm going to replace my old good i5-2500k with new i7-7700k and z270, but I'm still not sure is it worth installing Windows 10, or I should stick with W7 in terms of overall ingame input lag?
> 
> I'm a twitch shooter player (Overwatch currently), and have a 1070 GPU.
> I've setup win10 on my wife's rig, and there w10 felt just fine and had less background processes and consumed less memory, then my lightly tweaked win7. But I cannot directly evaluate input lag and overall mouse feel on her rig ingame, cause it's weak and have no graphics card.


the worst upgrade in the world.. just wait for zen amd and vega gpu release and thrb think about 4 core cpu when you have 8 cpu.


----------



## lemusz

Hey guys plz help me.
If i put my sata achi driver into msi mode after the restart my comp fials to load, blueee death screen and repair the windows options...
(i have to switch to IDE [email protected]) to get my windows back. Why is that?


----------



## lio256

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lemusz*
> 
> Hey guys plz help me.
> If i put my sata achi driver into msi mode after the restart my comp fials to load, blueee death screen and repair the windows options...
> (i have to switch to IDE [email protected]) to get my windows back. Why is that?


Your driver doesn't support MSI. So undo the registry change and you should be able to use your ACHI/SATA controller.


----------



## baskinghobo

Here are two more tweaks that aren't listed here that make a huge difference imo with input lag - http://www.overclock.net/t/1618489/two-understated-issues-that-have-not-yet-being-resolved-with-nvidia-and-amd-regarding-input-lag#post_25763347


----------



## karbz

Hey guys,

So I basically was completely off since I sold my pc over a year ago and have no clue what has changed etc.
As I am only interested in *quake* and *cs:go* gaming wise and just want low latency...
please do me a favor:

*recommend me a system for 1000$ max.
including monitor with an optimal compatibility of the internals and the goal for an absolute minimum in input lag etc.*
*Will send out 10$ for the best setup with PayPal.*


----------



## crankzt

Could somebody help me?


----------



## Craftyman

Why does Latencymon stop checking my DPC latency after 16 seconds?

Edit: I have v6.51 on Windows 10, does dpclat.exe work on Win10?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Craftyman*
> 
> Why does Latencymon stop checking my DPC latency after 16 seconds?
> 
> Edit: I have v6.51 on Windows 10, does dpclat.exe work on Win10?


didn't hear about latencymon stop after awhile, that's new . dpclat doesn't work correctly win 8 or 10


----------



## Craftyman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> didn't hear about latencymon stop after awhile, that's new . dpclat doesn't work correctly win 8 or 10


I fixed it by unchecking stop monitor when event buffers are lost in the settings


----------



## Craftyman

BTW BIG congrats for my boy r0ach who now has the top viewed thread in the intel motherboard section that isn't a board owner's club!!!


----------



## s0kkiplast

Hey guys!

Somewhere in this thread it is mentioned that it is a bad idea to have a dual boot system. No reasons are given just that "r0ach and many others have said it´s a bad idea". I have looked through the whole thread and I can´t find anything from r0ach or any other about this. Why would it be a bad idea? I have two partitions on my one ssd, one with a tweaked win7 just for cs, and one for other stuff like working.


----------



## Disrupi

hey there just curious if the high "hard page fault resolution times" are a problem


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Disrupi*
> 
> hey there just curious if the high "hard page fault resolution times" are a problem


it's fine , it is just reading the file from hardisk or ssd physically and it just say that it happened .


----------



## Alpharevx

Well the stuttering in games was driving me mad...guess what? I've tried just Windows 7 and Windows 10! HPET ON & OFF, all the "bcedit" commands still ****... The big surprise is here! when i installed Windows 8.1 the max latency is arround 160us! No lagging no hitching no stuttering! even doing work on pc is ******* smooth!








The thing is! guys try other OS's! You never know what's the best for your system, I've tried Tweaking the **** outta my Windows 7 & 10 no result...








Now i can enjoy the PC experience again! "8.1 MASTER RACE"


----------



## Alpharevx

Zero Tweaking on OS just fresh, UEFI BIOS tweaked by turning off unnecessary power savings & other stuffs like serial port & S.M.A.R.T tech
HPET ON on Bios ( Z97asus pro-gamer doesn't have the option to turn it off ) Feelsbadman.jpg - OFF on Windows 8.1


----------



## Unknownm

I came across this from another app in steam called: CPUCores :: Maximize Your FPS. While doing some research there is a free application that does the exact same thing plus more...

Called: Process Lasso



Enabling Gaming Mode + ProBalanced + with active power profile: Bitsum Highest Performance

Gives 0% idle compared to 1-2%. Which overall in games helps when I'm recording or streaming


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> BTW Display Scaling is gone in Windows 8 if you are using dual-link DVI. Only GPU scaling is available. The option isn't even greyed out, it's just not there.
> This guy posted on Tom's, OCN and ESEA and no one was able to help him. But he's right it's impossible to scale by display with dual link dvi cable in windows 8.
> 
> Sucks for us that play BF4 because Windows 8/8.1 provides MASSIVE fps gains for this game.


This works for me in 8.1 getting scaling on display back: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5103569&postcount=45


----------



## PurpleChef

Can someone sum this thread up? like what tweaks is worth doing
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alpharevx*
> 
> Well the stuttering in games was driving me mad...guess what? I've tried just Windows 7 and Windows 10! HPET ON & OFF, all the "bcedit" commands still ****... The big surprise is here! when i installed Windows 8.1 the max latency is arround 160us! No lagging no hitching no stuttering! even doing work on pc is ******* smooth!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is! guys try other OS's! You never know what's the best for your system, I've tried Tweaking the **** outta my Windows 7 & 10 no result...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now i can enjoy the PC experience again! "8.1 MASTER RACE"


You should post your system specs, tweaks etc, not just that its the best

U say 7 & 10 wasnt smooth and had stuttering, did it show any problems in latencymon etc?

Never had problem with display scaling on 120hz, but 144hz is auto gpu scaled (benq xl2720z firmware V5).
I use 125hz res, blur redcution with VT tweak now tho

disable Framepacing on AMD Drivers & change to pre-rendered frames 0, is it worth doing with newest Amd drivers? or its old news?


----------



## Alpharevx

Yes, Windows 7 had a very bad installing time, because the *storport.sys* was on very high DPC latency.. i've tried different RST(e) RAID drivers, no luck the problem is still there, i've tried many Windows 7 versions aswell! different ISO's too!
Windows 10, well on Windows 10 i had stuttering i don't know why or how! it's just like that! tried all the tweaks all the optimization, still! stuttering! so i said fk it imma try out Windows 8.1!
and that right there is the smartest move i made! because everyone is saying "WINDOWS 8.1 IS TRASH, WINDOWS 8.1 IS USELESS, BAD...ect"
I was surprised how fast and stable my system was!
The tweaks i made are simple ( Every gamer does on fresh installation ) :

1- Disabling Windows Defender and Automatic Updates
2- Disabled Features of windows that i don't use, like printers & Print Spooler Service
3- Disabled Core Parking and put my drivers ( usefull ones) on MSI mode
4- Updated my drivers with DriverBooster
5- Used the "*bcdedit/set useplatformtick yes*" command.

6- NVIDIA Settings:




7-Drivers on device manager ( I'm using USB 3.0 Hub on my mouse and i have a Acer PS2 Keyboard )




System Specs :
Intel i5 4690K 4.7Ghz
HyperX Beast 2400Mhz CL13
GeForce GTX 970 STRIX
ASUS Z97-PRO GAMER Bios ver.2203
I'm using a RAID 0 array of WD Blue 500gb & Toshiba 500gb HDD's.


----------



## MooMoo

How outdated/dated this threads first posts are?

Looking at on few of those steps looks nonsense/exaggerated.


----------



## Alpharevx

The first thread is not outdated ,i mean every motherboard has the options mentioned...they simply never get's old! PC's are PC's


----------



## s0kkiplast

Which socket 1151 motherboard would you guys buy for a snappy system? I always liked asus but i would like to test with hpet off/on. Gigabyte boards let you choose this but they dont put any info about irq assignments in manuals which bothers me. The board must have intel nic, ps2, usb 2.0 and be able to turn off many features. It needs to be oc-friendly. Currently im planning on buying these parts https://pcpartpicker.com/list/QhVk8K but im extremely sensitive to stuttering, latency and input lag, so Im afraid to buy Motherboard without asking ypu guys here. I currently only play csgo but with a new rig i will probably play some other games as well. The rig has to be able to not drop below 300 fps in any 5v5 in cs go, full resolution but low settings.

What do you guys think? Im particulary interested in your thoughts about motherboard.
Cheers!


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Has there been a discussion yet on the effect of soundcards on input lag? I think someone said pcie sound cards are a no no. But I have a PCI xonar card that I've been using and I wonder if xonar with the low dpc uni drivers ( and audio disabled in BIOS obviously) are better latency than Mobo audio with realtek or whatever drivers


----------



## Sptz

Hi guys,

I just got an i7 7700k and an Asus z270G. After all windows tweaks etc, no c-states, no speedstep, etc. I am getting this result on LatencyMon

Code:



Code:


Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   2016.061198
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   6.300321

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       2014.842150
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       5.289496

 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              179.459286
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0.038563
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0.038608

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   8298
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              2009.769048
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       storport.sys - Microsoft Storage Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0.032610
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 378.57 , NVIDIA Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0.067303

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   74368
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              43
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0

So it appears as if storport.sys is the culprit here. Does anyone know how can I fix this?

Thanks!

EDIT:

I saw one thread on the ASUS forum of someone with the same issue and the culprit was the Samsung's NVME 2.1 driver (I have an SM961), I reverted to the default Microsoft one and lo and behold, latency is fully gone. Averaging at 2µs... This is pretty shocking.


----------



## Sptz

I do have a question though. Why is VRM Spread Spectrum suggested to be off? What is the reasoning behind it? Isn't it beneficial to be on?


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys, I think I found my problem - I've Asus x99 Deluxe and has a fan extension board (came with motherboard). I always connected H100i Cooler fans to this extension board (because fan cables are short)

Changed fans and connected to motherboard's fan pins. And my keyboard / mouse lag gone. Looks this fan extension board has a serious proplem. Don't know what it is, but it really effects USB and monitor. I'm saying monitor (or may be GPU / display port), because when I watch videos from hdd or online / videos looks always shaky. Now, no problem

I had keyboard / mouse lag on desktop, in bios, in games - all gone.

Always check your cables / connectors... _I'll never buy any ASUS motherboard again..._

Also with HPET enabled in windows, feels better. _Hyperthreading is on._


----------



## karbz

Can someone recommend me CPU/RAM/Motherboard in terms of performance/money?

Currently using intel 6400 but non k and a motherboard that does not let me overclock etc. I want to run csgo at 300-500 fps...preferably 500...using a 1060 as gpu and have 4gb ddr4 but want to upgrade that, too.

Keeping the gpu but wanting to upgrade as i can currently only run it at about 180-240 fps but unstable (full HD resolution).


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

And try this guys;

SG TCP Optimizer Online PC Gaming 2017 - Windows 10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHleMpWEAxM


----------



## hylight

I'm not able to get 144hz on display+no-scaling, when I try creating a custom resolution ([email protected]), my monitor(asus vg248qe) goes crazy..

I'm on Windows 8.1


----------



## softskiller

Everybody, here is a thread about measuring DRAM memory performance and it's latency:

http://www.overclock.net/t/553039/maxxmem-benchmark-results-thread

Maybe also measure yours with MaxxMEM2 and post it there and compare.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Guys, I think I found my problem - I've Asus x99 Deluxe and has a fan extension board (came with motherboard). I always connected H100i Cooler fans to this extension board (because fan cables are short)
> 
> Changed fans and connected to motherboard's fan pins. And my keyboard / mouse lag gone. Looks this fan extension board has a serious proplem. Don't know what it is, but it really effects USB and monitor. I'm saying monitor (or may be GPU / display port), because when I watch videos from hdd or online / videos looks always shaky. Now, no problem
> 
> I had keyboard / mouse lag on desktop, in bios, in games - all gone.
> 
> Always check your cables / connectors... _I'll never buy any ASUS motherboard again..._
> 
> Also with HPET enabled in windows, feels better. _Hyperthreading is on._


Never by a asus mb again cus u feel mouselag with a extension board lol







:
and how did u measure this "lag" ? so now all asus mbs bad? jesus christ

For win10 users:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_10_toggle_tweaker.html


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> I want to run csgo at 300-500 fps...preferably 500


500 is not really a realistic target, unless there's some major optimizations made to the game. 400 FPS is realistic but difficult target for average FPS, which will require fairly high end gear, at least moderate overclocking, and a good dose of tweaking the OS/system. When I say average FPS, I mean the results you get from "FPS Benchmark" in Steam Workshop and "fps_test3" timedemo.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Why this onboard ethernet ports always has problems.. Most of people says, connect to modem with cable

But I wanted to test WiFi and it's much better (5Ghz) - Booth ethernet ports disabled from bios - I've 2 ports on motherboard - tested both...

Forexample, when ethernet ports (any of them) enabled and when I try to sound test



this bar moves but looks sound comes half sec. later. Latency Mon says no problem.

With disabled ethernet ports and wifi enabled - bar and sound in synch..

Also game performance is really really better. Latnecy Mon shows around 100ms - but in real world works better.

With ethernet port(s) enabled and wifi disabled - Latency Mon shows 23-30 ms but very laggy key - mouse performance....

And wifi enabled - Intel Speed Step enabled - Windows power mode is in balanced mod - in bios almost everything is Auto - but really good performance.

And as you see - 2 sound card is working without problem. One is onboard audio, other one is external Firewire sound card - Tested both, no problem.

You can say may be firewire creates problem with onboard ethernet; tested, removed and uninstalled Firewire card - just tested with onboard audio and also with PCIex sound card (asus PCIEx 5.1) the same.

Checked system Info - and looks no IRQ problems





Checked with enabled ethern port(s) Looks ok also. There was no IRQ problem.

This not happens only with ASUS - Also have MSI x99A Gaming 7 - but it hasn't wifi option - killer ethernet port on it. It was laggy too..


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ_OXyGeNe_8*
> 
> Why this onboard ethernet ports always has problems.. Most of people says, connect to modem with cable
> 
> But I wanted to test WiFi and it's much better (5Ghz) - Booth ethernet ports disabled from bios - I've 2 ports on motherboard - tested both...
> 
> Forexample, when ethernet ports (any of them) enabled and when I try to sound test
> 
> 
> 
> this bar moves but looks sound comes half sec. later. Latency Mon says no problem.
> 
> With disabled ethernet ports and wifi enabled - bar and sound in synch..
> 
> Also game performance is really really better. Latnecy Mon shows around 100ms - but in real world works better.
> 
> With ethernet port(s) enabled and wifi disabled - Latency Mon shows 23-30 ms but very laggy key - mouse performance....
> 
> And wifi enabled - Intel Speed Step enabled - Windows power mode is in balanced mod - in bios almost everything is Auto - but really good performance.
> 
> And as you see - 2 sound card is working without problem. One is onboard audio, other one is external Firewire sound card - Tested both, no problem.
> 
> You can say may be firewire creates problem with onboard ethernet; tested, removed and uninstalled Firewire card - just tested with onboard audio and also with PCIex sound card (asus PCIEx 5.1) the same.
> 
> Checked system Info - and looks no IRQ problems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Checked with enabled ethern port(s) Looks ok also. There was no IRQ problem.
> 
> This not happens only with ASUS - Also have MSI x99A Gaming 7 - but it hasn't wifi option - killer ethernet port on it. It was laggy too..


You have such wierd problems that you should reinstall windows. If that doesn't help, I think it's user error.


----------



## Nastya

So I've noticed some weird behavior concerning my onboard i210 NIC. I strongly suspect it has been the cause for a system-wide DPC latency increase of upwards 100 μs.
First noticed this after I updated the NIC drivers and hadn't done a latency check in a while. Tested the system, and it had several spikes up to 120 μs whereas it would hover around 20 μs before.
Nothing you would really notice, anyway.

Now, where it gets interesting is when I uninstalled the drivers and checked for latency again after, since in my opinion the new drivers had caused the spike and I was certain the stock drivers would do the trick again.
And what do you know, after first reboot system latency was around 20 μs again. All was well, or so I thought.

Next reboot, check for latency again, and it's up to the old ~120 figures again. Just out of curiosity, I uninstall the device again in device manager, next reboot after Windows installed stock drivers it's 20 μs again. NIC working fine.

I reboot and suddenly it's 120 μs again.

I am dumbfounded. I even tried other BIOSes but no dice.

TLDR: NIC drivers are low-latency until I reboot.


----------



## Crymore13

I want to know why I get this peaks with my rig...
HPET OFF(With HPET ON I get: Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 10~12 | Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 4~8
All power saving in bios are OFF, HT Off, Overclock 4.4Ghz.
GTX 670 Stock.
I already tested many(more than 10 different driver version) nvidia drivers but the same problem occurs.



Log:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:04:34 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: CRYMORE13-PC
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: Z68X-UD3-B3, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 8175 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 3410 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 1 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

*Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 392,174998*
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1,897944

*Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 391,274136*
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0,990927

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 23,251613
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: USBPORT.SYS - USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0,095465
Driver with highest ISR total time: hal.dll - Hardware Abstraction Layer DLL, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0,101508

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 297014
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

*Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 418,073021
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 347.09 , NVIDIA Corporation*

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0,347937
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: cmudaxp.sys - C-Media Audio WDM Driver, C-Media Inc

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0,548277

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 1342095
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
*DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 47*
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: msinfo32.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 214
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 61
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 40468,233138
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0,022609
Number of processes hit: 10

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 8,167872
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 23,251613
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 1,112595
CPU 0 ISR count: 297014
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 418,073021
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 5,428603
CPU 0 DPC count: 1289534
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0,446139
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 61,906158
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0,029220
CPU 1 DPC count: 2462
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0,703371
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 86,803812
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0,318603
CPU 2 DPC count: 29214
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0,569481
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 82,557185
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0,233042
CPU 3 DPC count: 20932
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

It's known problem with 600 series cards, I had the same with 660 Ti.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Indeed, 600-series and earlier NVIDIA cards always have high DPC spikes with every NVIDIA driver I've ever tested. There are some things you can do to improve it moderately, but nothing will improve it as much as replacing it with a 700-, 900-, or 10-series card.

For absolute lowest input latency, 780 Ti with an upgraded VRM (need to overclock and use a modded BIOS to make this the case). For highest performance in new games, 1080 (duh). For good compromise in performance and input latency with nice value for money when buying used, 980 or 980 Ti (again, modded BIOS, and upgraded VRM if you want to overclock). Most of the time, your overclocking headroom is going to be thermally limited on air, so the main performance boost you will get without water cooling is from disabling dynamic and power-saving features, hence the need for BIOS mods.


----------



## Conditioned

So I have all my fans on pwm extenders from cpu_fan 1. Yesterday I added another fan at the bottom of the case and since there was a chassis fan plug right next to it I thought I'd just use that. I tried playing after that and just couldnt aim at all. Clown cursor from hell (tm R0ach). Next tried putting it in cpu_fan 2. A little better but still not as good as it was without. So I put in another pwm extender and now it feels like it should. On top of this I have read about at least 3 people who had year long issuees with lag on their system and at least two of them had tried a lot to pin down the issue, until they removed their case fans. In short, I think I will be sticking with putting all my fans to my cpu fan outtake, also has the added advantages of keeping the system cool when needed and noiseless when idle. Ofc your mileage may wary. This a pretty nice mobo too, an asus maximus hero, so while possibly not top shelf, its by no means a budget board.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> So I have all my fans on pwm extenders from cpu_fan 1. Yesterday I added another fan at the bottom of the case and since there was a chassis fan plug right next to it I thought I'd just use that. I tried playing after that and just couldnt aim at all. Clown cursor from hell (tm R0ach). Next tried putting it in cpu_fan 2. A little better but still not as good as it was without. So I put in another pwm extender and now it feels like it should. On top of this I have read about at least 3 people who had year long issuees with lag on their system and at least two of them had tried a lot to pin down the issue, until they removed their case fans. In short, I think I will be sticking with putting all my fans to my cpu fan outtake, also has the added advantages of keeping the system cool when needed and noiseless when idle. Ofc your mileage may wary. This a pretty nice mobo too, an asus maximus hero, so while possibly not top shelf, its by no means a budget board.


anyone with more stories like that ? I wonder which is the worst sensor which causes issues. can you say which sensor do you have using cpuz in the motherboard tab ? or just take screenshot


----------



## Conditioned

It's an Asus maximus hero vii motherboard. I admit my testing wasn't perfect but I believe the results to be reliable. It's something to test out if youplay a game you are very familiar with.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> It's an Asus maximus hero vii motherboard. I admit my testing wasn't perfect but I believe the results to be reliable. It's something to test out if youplay a game you are very familiar with.


The name of the motherboard doesn't give much . the sensor name does.


----------



## Kyube

anyone here got a ryzen build? hows the experience on it? (fps, dpclat & input lag)


----------



## KulaGGin

Nice post. Before I read and applied it, I actually seen people talking about, and I quote, *'Roach - DPC latency maniac'.*.

But I'm still interested in few settings left in my BIOS:
No-execute memory protection
Hardware Prefetcher
Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch
Suspend to RAM

Here are screens of my BIOS:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!























It's ASRock Z170 Extreme4 MB and 6500 CPU. I use PS2 noname keyboard and USB mouse(Log G502), as well as PCI-E network(Intel 82574L Desktop Adapter) and sound(Creative SB0880 X-Fi Titanium 7.1) cards. Overclocking isn't finished yet, so RAM timings are just auto... Before I will go and try to overclock it for as much as possibe, I would like to know in what states I should set settings mentioned above: no-execute memory protection, hardware prefetcher, adjacent cache line prefetch and suspend to RAM. I'm sure I set something else in the wrong state, which can hurt overclocking abilities, so I posted screens of all relevant places in BIOS.

What you suggest, gurus?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> Nice post. Before I read and applied it, I actually seen people talking about, and I quote, *'Roach - DPC latency maniac'.*.
> 
> But I'm still interested in few settings left in my BIOS:
> No-execute memory protection
> Hardware Prefetcher
> Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch
> Suspend to RAM
> 
> Here are screens of my BIOS:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's ASRock Z170 Extreme4 MB and 6500 CPU. I use PS2 noname keyboard and USB mouse(Log G502), as well as PCI-E network(Intel 82574L Desktop Adapter) and sound(Creative SB0880 X-Fi Titanium 7.1) cards. Overclocking isn't finished yet, so RAM timings are just auto... Before I will go and try to overclock it for as much as possibe, I would like to know in what states I should set settings mentioned above: no-execute memory protection, hardware prefetcher, adjacent cache line prefetch and suspend to RAM. I'm sure I set something else in the wrong state, which can hurt overclocking abilities, so I posted screens of all relevant places in BIOS.
> 
> What you suggest, gurus?


Don't disable adjacent cache line prefetch

it will affect your performance for the bad

http://archive.techarp.com/showFreeBOG067b.html?lang=0&bogno=282


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> anyone here got a ryzen build? hows the experience on it? (fps, dpclat & input lag)


Interesting question.


----------



## KulaGGin

Wanted to say that before, with 2.175 in-game sens(CS:GO) my real life sensitivity was 472mm/360°. After I applied everything in the OP I had to move my mouse only by 458 mm to turn around on 360°(with 2.175 in-game sens).

So I changed my sensitivity in CS:GO from 2.175 to 2.175 and in Squad to get the exact same real life sensitivity 472 mm/360°. I am using just a measuring tape, so 1mm precision is as good as I can get.

In both games(CS:GO and Squad) raw input is used. So basically sensitivity changed in all Source and UE games(and there are tonns of them). It feels different in Windows, too. Never tested in Windows, though.

Usually after changing something I go and test my sens if it changed or no. And usually it doesn't but this time it did change. Some people just say it doesn't make a difference or whatever. It did in my case.


----------



## knowom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> didn't hear about latencymon stop after awhile, that's new . dpclat doesn't work correctly win 8 or 10


Just use TimerTool and set it for 0.5067 and it works great in windows 10.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0kkiplast*
> 
> Hey guys!
> 
> Somewhere in this thread it is mentioned that it is a bad idea to have a dual boot system. No reasons are given just that "r0ach and many others have said it´s a bad idea". I have looked through the whole thread and I can´t find anything from r0ach or any other about this. Why would it be a bad idea? I have two partitions on my one ssd, one with a tweaked win7 just for cs, and one for other stuff like working.


Probably due the the additional overhead of either adding another HD to a system or the impact on performance of filling up a HD it's probably negligible and mostly poorly ill advised advice overall, but I can see formulate where it could technically make a minute probably imperceptible under virtually any real world scenario difference outside of potentially in a rare instance missing 1 frame at the 60FPS threshold with vsync on that if you tested it 100 times wouldn't occur again.


----------



## Zaytex

can you guys help me im getting 600 ms on dpc latency just look at this photo

help me im going crazy







i just didnt do those bios settings most of them is not in my bios options what should i do ? im using msi h 97


----------



## Nastya

Don't use DPC Latency Checker with Windows 10 for a start. Read the thread.


----------



## Zaytex

what is that value 600 !?


----------



## Topkek007

Hi, has anyone switched to seasonic prime titanium power supply? It has minimal ripple and other specifications really solid, makes me wonder if it affects _microstutters_ enough to notice the difference. Owners of 120 Hz+ monitors would be more likely to notice, if it does. *Anyone?* That is, implying timer works at pretty high frequency and voltage ripple affects its working pace (speed up and down), thus minimising them should make it more stable aka consistent, including frametimes.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaytex*
> 
> 
> 
> what is that value 600 !?


microseconds =/= milliseconds. Your system is fine.


----------



## Conditioned

Another reason not to use ME. https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/01/228211/intel-patches-remote-execution-hole-thats-been-hidden-in-its-chips-since-2008

Ps. this is probably the atm for server chipsets.


----------



## RamenRider

Should I do a fresh downgrade to Win7?


----------



## Straszy

U should use latency mon on win 10 only.


----------



## PurpleChef

An interesting find:

Have used my old ESI [email protected] Pci soundcard for years, since it provide better sound quality then the integrated soundchip on my Sabertooth 990fx r2 motherboard. The integrated soundchip sounds more "muddy", not the same crisp sound as the soundcard from ~2005/2006.

Dunno why, but i disabled it and tryed to benchmark CS GO with the integrated sound instead, and it gave me ~12-15 fps more, on this benchmark

The [email protected] soundcard also shared the same IRQ as the mouse or the keyboard, if i only use usb 2.0 and disable usb 3.0.

Any ideas on how this is possible? might it be that i choose to low latency on the [email protected] soundcard, or just bad drivers? im on Windows 10, with the lastest official driver.

Edit: works fine in 8.1


----------



## justzeNn

Does realtek audio driver create input lag to the mouse?


----------



## RamenRider

Alright switched to win 7 and I did some of r0ache's guide and went down to 28-45 us.

How do I switch my Nvidia nforce SATA and PCI to USB host controller so that they aren't sharing the same IRQ? (I'm also going to to update my Nforce drivers soon if that would help.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justzeNn*
> 
> Does realtek audio driver create input lag to the mouse?


It may conflict with your other audio driver like Nvidia audio, but usually never because realtek and nvidia are for different parts. Nvidia for HDMI, Realtek for audio jacks.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> How do I switch my Nvidia nforce SATA and PCI to USB host controller so that they aren't sharing the same IRQ? (I'm also going to to update my Nforce drivers soon if that would help.


I tried it with one of my older PCs and by the looks of it the nForce SATA controllers did not support it (nForce 570 Ultra).
If you want to try it nonetheless, create a system restore point, else you might have an unbootable system.


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> I tried it with one of my older PCs and by the looks of it the nForce SATA controllers did not support it (nForce 570 Ultra).
> If you want to try it nonetheless, create a system restore point, else you might have an unbootable system.


But how would I do so exactly? Do I just use a different cable port for my SATA drive?


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emka*
> 
> Will this work if I do it this way? with msi_utli


Gawsh where can I download this?


----------



## Zaen

Sry if this is a long post but i feel this could be of use to somebody... some day ^_^

A few weeks ago i had a problem with fans not spooling up with cpu temp, traced the problem to my case fan hub, so for monitoring temps and fans rpm i re-installed HWiNFOx64. Since then i have been on a lower OC, due to temporary cooling changes, that i needed testing so i left HWiNFOx64 installed and running with windows boot.

After the fan problem was "fixed", not quite since i'm still on my temp cpu cooler, and new OC passed stability tests i went back to my regular usage of my system, which is mainly gaming, but i was having very variable FPS drops and sometimes accompanied by a popping or crackling noise in the headsets, that is the only sound output i have.
Started digging on this and after a lot of trial and error i came to the conclusion (maybe not correct after all) that GPU was sharing root 16 or it's IRQ addressing with HD audio driver from MOBO, and not the Nvidia driver from the GPU so i set GPU to work in MSI mode and games were stuttering a lot less, but still had some hick ups here and there but not as grave as before. This only lasted 1day, the next night it was worse and the popping sound was back. Looked up Latency again and it was spiking very high up to 11k and 14k microseconds so i went back to school (google xD ) and with Latency monitor i found i had a ACPI.SYS drv from .NT framework (windows... pffff) constantly making requests and lagging the system as a whole. Started disabling devices and drivers but none would reduce latency, so i started disabling programs.

With this i found that the program that was using that System drv, ACPI.SYS, was HWiNFO. After i turned that off latency went back to normal, ethernet and GPU driver were the biggest latency generators again.

I still need to run more testing but i left Latency monitor running the whole night, 6h, and the biggest DPS latency spike was below 500 micro seconds.

Conclusion, imo, don't test for latency running HWiNFO and perhaps any other monitoring software.

On another note. I found, in Windows 10 enterprise, DPClat to have only a few hundred microseconds difference from what Latency monitor reported, but the latter is idd more accurate and, with all honestly, has more useful info to give. Great little tool







The msi_util only gave me a blank page so.....


----------



## emka

You have to run msi_util as administrator.


----------



## Zaen

Thought i was... i added myself to admin local group just to be sure when i 1st installed windows.... wth


----------



## x7007

Guys, I've found out that uninstalling Intel® Management Engine Device from System Devices fixed almost all my stuttering and lags. I don't know why, but on my laptop and desktop I don't have those damn weird freezes anymore. taken from almost more than 30 online HOS matches and single player games.

If you don't use it , uninstall it, and who use it anyway ? less devices installed the better right ?


----------



## RamenRider

Alright so I used msi_util to try and change 4 devices, NvidIA ehternet, nforce SATA ect. After restart, my pc is trying to repair itself for half a day now.

My pc, is capable of msi_mode but perhaps those devices weren't capable. When I tried manual configuration for 2 of them they did not change and I assumed it was human error.

So what do I do now?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Alright so I used msi_util to try and change 4 devices, NvidIA ehternet, nforce SATA ect. After restart, my pc is trying to repair itself for half a day now.
> 
> My pc, is capable of msi_mode but perhaps those devices weren't capable. When I tried manual configuration for 2 of them they did not change and I assumed it was human error.
> 
> So what do I do now?


System Recovery > System Restore ? do you have one before you did it ? this should fix the issue. enter Windows recovery and see if you have last known restore point.


----------



## Gonzalez07

usually just booting into last known good configuration fixes any problems with msi crashes.


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Alright so I used msi_util to try and change 4 devices, NvidIA ehternet, nforce SATA ect. After restart, my pc is trying to repair itself for half a day now.
> 
> My pc, is capable of msi_mode but perhaps those devices weren't capable. When I tried manual configuration for 2 of them they did not change and I assumed it was human error.
> 
> So what do I do now?


From your MOBO manual - https://www.manualslib.com/manual/391207/Biostar-N68s3plus-Bios.html?page=3#manual (also page 2)

APM Support
This AMI BIOS supports Version 1.1&1.2 of the Advanced Power Management
(APM) specification. Power management features are implemented via the System
Management Interrupt (SMI). Sleep and Suspend power management modes are
supported. Power to the hard disk drives and video monitors can also be managed by
this AMI BIOS.

PCI Bus Support
This AMI BIOS also supports Version 2.3 of the Intel PCI (Peripheral Component
Interconnect) local bus specification.

So you should be good, specially if your BIOS is up do date. Perhaps one of the devices you put in msi mode, that probably is built-in the MOBO, doesn't support it. Last known good Boot Config should rollback the changes you did.


----------



## s0kkiplast

Hey guys!

I have a problem with windows update randomly turning itself ON even though it is disabled in services.msc. Do you know how to change that?


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Windows key+R --> gpedit.msc --> hit enter --> navigate to Computer Configuration>Administrative Templates>System>Internet Communication Management>Internet Communication settings --> right click "Turn off Windows Update device driver searching" --> Edit --> choose Enabled --> Apply --> OK --> close Local Group Policy Editor

That could be kicking it off, but probably not.

Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) is a really annoying system service that seems to constantly find new and interesting ways of getting changed to Automatic startup. If memory serves, the Windows Update service tends to be infrequently enabled and started at the whim of BITS. However, if BITS is not started by being set to Automatic startup, I don't think I've seen it just start up randomly when it's set to Manual startup.

Some applications may depend on having access to BITS, especially if you ever want to do manual Windows updating. I highly recommend becoming a card-carrying member of AskWoody's "Group B" and getting in the habit of checking http://www.askwoody.com every few days so that you can keep yourself protected from both the seedy underbelly of the internet and the roaming hands of Microsoft.

So I think the most sensible approach to subduing BITS and the Windows Update service is to set them to Manual startup, then at Windows startup have a script run some commands like this:



Spoiler: Windows startup script



Code:



Code:


net stop wuauserv
net stop BITS
timeout 1
sc config BITS start= demand





That way, if BITS ever gets changed to Automatic startup and starts itself or Windows Update service, they are stopped and BITS is toggled back to Manual startup. Then you can have a little script to run when AskWoody gives the all clear for your Group B updates:



Spoiler: Windows Update script



Code:



Code:


net start BITS
net start wuauserv
timeout 1
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe url.dll,FileProtocolHandler wuapp.exe





This starts the necessary services for Windows Update and launches the Windows Update control panel. When you have finished with your updates, then run this slight alteration of the Windows startup script (kills two more pesky Manual services that can be started in the update process) to make sure all the animals are back in their cages:



Spoiler: Windows Update shutdown script



Code:



Code:


net stop wuauserv
net stop SSDPSRV
net stop TrustedInstaller
net stop BITS
timeout 1
sc config BITS start= demand





Last thing I always check for after a post-update restart is that the Microsoft .NET Framework NGEN v4.x._X64 and v4.x.X86 services are set to Manual, because they seem to usually get changed to delayed Automatic startup whenever Windows is configuring things during the post-update restart.

If you are still having the Windows Update service start up randomly respite these precautions, I will probably need to see a dump of your services configuration from services.msc to see if something else is going on.


----------



## s0kkiplast

Thanks Vols!

Will try that and report


----------



## s0kkiplast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Windows key+R --> gpedit.msc --> hit enter --> navigate to Computer Configuration>Administrative Templates>System>Internet Communication Management>Internet Communication settings --> right click "Turn off Windows Update device driver searching" --> Edit --> choose Enabled --> Apply --> OK --> close Local Group Policy Editor
> 
> That could be kicking it off, but probably not.
> 
> Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) is a really annoying system service that seems to constantly find new and interesting ways of getting changed to Automatic startup. If memory serves, the Windows Update service tends to be infrequently enabled and started at the whim of BITS. However, if BITS is not started by being set to Automatic startup, I don't think I've seen it just start up randomly when it's set to Manual startup.
> 
> Some applications may depend on having access to BITS, especially if you ever want to do manual Windows updating. I highly recommend becoming a card-carrying member of AskWoody's "Group B" and getting in the habit of checking http://www.askwoody.com every few days so that you can keep yourself protected from both the seedy underbelly of the internet and the roaming hands of Microsoft.
> 
> So I think the most sensible approach to subduing BITS and the Windows Update service is to set them to Manual startup, then at Windows startup have a script run some commands like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Windows startup script
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> net stop wuauserv
> net stop BITS
> timeout 1
> sc config BITS start= demand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That way, if BITS ever gets changed to Automatic startup and starts itself or Windows Update service, they are stopped and BITS is toggled back to Manual startup. Then you can have a little script to run when AskWoody gives the all clear for your Group B updates:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Windows Update script
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> net start BITS
> net start wuauserv
> timeout 1
> C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe url.dll,FileProtocolHandler wuapp.exe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This starts the necessary services for Windows Update and launches the Windows Update control panel. When you have finished with your updates, then run this slight alteration of the Windows startup script (kills two more pesky Manual services that can be started in the update process) to make sure all the animals are back in their cages:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Windows Update shutdown script
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> net stop wuauserv
> net stop SSDPSRV
> net stop TrustedInstaller
> net stop BITS
> timeout 1
> sc config BITS start= demand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last thing I always check for after a post-update restart is that the Microsoft .NET Framework NGEN v4.x._X64 and v4.x.X86 services are set to Manual, because they seem to usually get changed to delayed Automatic startup whenever Windows is configuring things during the post-update restart.
> 
> If you are still having the Windows Update service start up randomly respite these precautions, I will probably need to see a dump of your services configuration from services.msc to see if something else is going on.


Windows update still turns itself on


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s0kkiplast*
> 
> Windows update still turns itself on


just let it be on and use windows update minitool to control whicih updates to update and hide. that's all. don't mess with the OS. you need updates. also with windows update mini tool choose notify only.


----------



## RamenRider

I leave it on system restore for more than a day but nothing happens.

Perhaps because the Sata cannot be run in MSI mode.

Here are my options. Anyone know any good commands? Perhaps maybe edit my regedit from here? I saved a regedit file in mydocuments. Or maybe I should place my HDD in another port.

What do you guys recommend.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> I leave it on system restore for more than a day but nothing happens.
> 
> Perhaps because the Sata cannot be run in MSI mode.
> 
> Here are my options. Anyone know any good commands? Perhaps maybe edit my regedit from here? I saved a regedit file in mydocuments. Or maybe I should place my HDD in another port.
> 
> What do you guys recommend.


Use Hiren's Boot CD to boot into Tiny XP and edit the registry from there.
http://us.informatiweb.net/tutorials/it/5-live-cd/39--hiren-boot-cd-edit-the-local-registry-of-windows.html

Also, you were given the advice of using System Restore and/or not do it in the first place. Why did you not listen?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> I leave it on system restore for more than a day but nothing happens.
> 
> Perhaps because the Sata cannot be run in MSI mode.
> 
> Here are my options. Anyone know any good commands? Perhaps maybe edit my regedit from here? I saved a regedit file in mydocuments. Or maybe I should place my HDD in another port.
> 
> What do you guys recommend.


almost every sata driver will work as MSI. if it didn't then you have the generic windows driver and you cannot MSI or it bsod. you need to install the correct Intel IRST then it will be MSI anyhow. same goes fof other SATA controllers. Asmedia Marvell and such


----------



## shadyshade

Hello overlockers,what shouls i do with Asus z270 mark2 bios setup for better mouse response?


----------



## x7007

There are couple drivers offenders that installed with new computer, some are laptops and some are desktops. Uninstall them ASAP because they are **** energy saving and can even cause non stop crashing and lower performance.

*Intel Collaborative Processor Performance Control (CPPC) Driver* - this one was on my Laptop Asus G751JT , causing some input lags and drop in fps in many games.

*Explain:* A new technology based on the ACPI 5.0 specification that dynamically modulates performance vs. active application power. It reduces active power to deliver better battery life and allows deeper lower power states to be reached (compared to prior generations of Intel Core processor products).



*Intel Management Engine Interface* - This one still needs to be investigated if it's really needed

*Explain :* Intel Management Engine Interface or IMEI is one of the main components of the VPRO Remote Access technology by Intel. VPRO is an umbrella term that refers to a collection of several computer hardware technologies that help in managing the PCs. These technologies provide security features and enable remote accessing to the PC including the management, monitoring and maintenance irrespective of the operating system state and PC power state as well. IMEI manages the processor's input/output operations.


*Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework* - This one caused nonstop crashes for my friend Asus G702VS , after uninstalling it , all the crashes stopped.

*Explain :* Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework Settings are for managing power to the CPU vs temperature. Keeping CPU temperature down while still delivering adequate performance is its purpose. In Power Management Settings, there is a category for "Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework Settings", with sub categories:
"Power Limit" with "Level 1-5" as options (1 being the lowest amount of power & 5 the highest), and
"Acoustic Limit" with "Level 1-5" as options. (1 being the slowest fan speed & 5 the highest)..

This allows you to control CPU power/performance & fan speeds for better consistency during gaming or other heavy loads..


----------



## NeoReaper

Be careful with the last one, some laptops (mostly lower power ones, slim laptops... my Toughbook included) need the Thermal dynamic framework otherwise they will cause the laptop/notebook to overheat and shut down if you run a very high load on them for a while.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NeoReaper*
> 
> Be careful with the last one, some laptops (mostly lower power ones, slim laptops... my Toughbook included) need the Thermal dynamic framework otherwise they will cause the laptop/notebook to overheat and shut down if you run a very high load on them for a while.


I don't know about the cheap/non gaming ones, but on the gaming ones it screw up and just restart the computer, for all G702VS gaming laptop I've been heard they have exactly the same issue, I've found out this is the only and only one fix that fixed the issue for god.

This shows example of the crash.


----------



## x7007

Also disable the RAID built in SATA drivers that windows 7,8,10 comes with it loads the driver even if you have the newest Intel drivers installed

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStorA That's the newest Intel drivers 14.x (for me 14.8.16.1063) and above which should Enabled and working

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStorAV - Older Version Intel(R) SATA RAID Controller Windows 13.2.0.122 19/02/2015

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStorV Oldest Version Intel RAID Controller Windows 7 Intel Matrix Storage Manager Driver 8.6.2.1019

All this service are on START 0 - means they will always load and Always Start on boot.

You must disable the iaSotrAV and iaStorV . you can do so with Autoruns Sysinternals software.

Always make System Restore, and make sure you Enable back iaStorAV when uninstall the current driver because windows might not boot.

Windows by itself after I used the DISM /RestoreHealth did this automatically , but on my laptop I didn't do this command so it didn't delete/revert them.


----------



## x7007

Does anyone have this on the Device manager using the Show Hidden device from View ? it causes many issues



https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/debugger/supported-ethernet-nics-for-network-kernel-debugging-in-windows-8-1

https://ravisankarc.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/how-to-disable-test-mode-and-debugging/

https://www.eightforums.com/drivers-hardware/12892-kernel-debug-nic-adaptor-mess-up-my-network.html#post140582


----------



## x7007

No one post in this thread anymore ??


----------



## softskiller

This is an alternative one: http://www.overclock.net/t/1550666/usb-polling-precision


----------



## RamenRider

Late post, I've been busy.

I used system restore's regedit to import a reg file I saved, but that did not solve the problem.

Using Hiren's boot I have accessed remote regedit, but I would like to know if MSI_Utility affects anything other than system\currentcontrolset\enum\pci\.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> Also, you were given the advice of using System Restore and/or not do it in the first place. Why did you not listen?


I asked after..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> almost every sata driver will work as MSI. if it didn't then you have the generic windows driver and you cannot MSI or it bsod. you need to install the correct Intel IRST then it will be MSI anyhow. same goes fof other SATA controllers. Asmedia Marvell and such


You are right the drive does work.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Late post, I've been busy.
> 
> I used system restore's regedit to import a reg file I saved, but that did not solve the problem.
> 
> Using Hiren's boot I have accessed remote regedit, but I would like to know if MSI_Utility affects anything other than system\currentcontrolset\enum\pci\.
> I asked after..
> You are right the drive does work.


I don't think MSI does more than that. because if you install proper driver with MSI mode supported then it's enabled already. means it's exatcly the same as if you are installing MSI supported drivers like Intel RST and such.


----------



## animeowns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts about modifying Windows 'Multi-Media Class Scheduler'? I Could see how disabling 'Network Throttling Index' & 'System Responsiveness' could benefit somebody, but isn't the 'Games' settings, for Windows built-in Games?
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile]
> "NetworkThrottlingIndex"=dword:ffffffff
> "SystemResponsiveness"=dword:00000000
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games]
> "Scheduling Category"="High"
> "SFIO Priority"="High"
> "Background Only"="False"
> "Priority"=dword:00000001
> "Clock Rate"=dword:00002710
> "GPU Priority"=dword:00000001
> "Affinity"=dword:00000000


Should I be using these settings in games I am getting low gpu usage on a 6950x system with titanxp 2x sli 2017 cards on a 32gb corsair ram system 30-40 % usage in all my games with sli on using a system with 2 hard drives 1 ssd and a sound card


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *animeowns*
> 
> Should I be using these settings in games I am getting low gpu usage on a 6950x system with titanxp 2x sli 2017 cards on a 32gb corsair ram system 30-40 % usage in all my games with sli on using a system with 2 hard drives 1 ssd and a sound card


it reminds me someone who said he has low score in cenbenchmark. after cmos bios reset it fixed the issue. then he had low sli usage in games 30%. it was fixed only after windows installation. I don't think the registry will help you. depends if it's the default or not. if it's not the default then it might fix.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *animeowns*
> 
> Should I be using these settings in games I am getting low gpu usage on a 6950x system with titanxp 2x sli 2017 cards on a 32gb corsair ram system 30-40 % usage in all my games with sli on using a system with 2 hard drives 1 ssd and a sound card


I've got a little fps boost in CS:GO after changing these settings to:

Code:



Code:


"Priority"=dword:00000006
"GPU Priority"=dword:00000008


----------



## RamenRider

So how can I load this hive to view it on regedit? I tried selecting HKLOCALMACHINE to load it, and the other subfolder do not allow loading. Or maybe loading isn't the correct option?

I am still not fully experienced with regedit and am unsure of how to proceed. I still don't know why importing through system manager's regedit did not work either.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> So how can I load this hive to view it on regedit? I tried selecting HKLOCALMACHINE to load it, and the other subfolder do not allow loading. Or maybe loading isn't the correct option?
> 
> I am still not fully experienced with regedit and am unsure of how to proceed. I still don't know why importing through system manager's regedit did not work either.


don't import this thing. it looks like bad reg


----------



## Gonzalez07

every time I would launch overwatch and had latencymon running I noticed my dpc would spike and become unstable. i went through all of my bios settings and ive concluded if i disable hyperthreading i get extremely high dpc spikes. with it enabled i never get spikes/that warning message. i had no idea disabling hyperthreading could cause that.


----------



## Friard

Is using a usb to ps2 converter for a usb keyboard the equivalent of using a keyboard that has a ps2 cable


----------



## awkwardstevie

what driver should we use for 750ti with windows 7 for best csgo feeling / fps?


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> every time I would launch overwatch and had latencymon running I noticed my dpc would spike and become unstable. i went through all of my bios settings and ive concluded if i disable hyperthreading i get extremely high dpc spikes. with it enabled i never get spikes/that warning message. i had no idea disabling hyperthreading could cause that.


There seems to be some bad coding in HT processor from skylake onwards, but that is with HT on... not off :x Maybe what 's happenning is that HT extra processing alleviates the latency so you don't notice it.
Had a similar problem with another online FPS and it turned out to be HWiNFO requests to the CPU made a ACPI driver go hiperactive. since i turned HWiNFO off the latency is gone







Check, if you haven't already, possible software causing latency.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> There seems to be some bad coding in HT processor from skylake onwards, but that is with HT on... not off :x Maybe what 's happenning is that HT extra processing alleviates the latency so you don't notice it.
> Had a similar problem with another online FPS and it turned out to be HWiNFO requests to the CPU made a ACPI driver go hiperactive. since i turned HWiNFO off the latency is gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check, if you haven't already, possible software causing latency.


definitely not a software issue. ive seen a few other people report the same thing. i'm on a 1070 so maybe it has something to do with haswell hyperthreading and nvidia pascal drivers? really no idea


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> definitely not a software issue. ive seen a few other people report the same thing. i'm on a 1070 so maybe it has something to do with haswell hyperthreading and nvidia pascal drivers? really no idea


Idd it can. Did you try without the GPU and HT off? If the latency is still there probably not the Pascal driver. The problem i described before only started after a windows 10 update... One thing you might try is to put the GPU in MSI mode, if it isn't already.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> Idd it can. Did you try without the GPU and HT off? If the latency is still there probably not the Pascal driver. The problem i described before only started after a windows 10 update... One thing you might try is to put the GPU in MSI mode, if it isn't already.


wouldn't recommend to use MSI on nvidia desktop cards. it causes many weird issues not visible or happening at first. it takes time till they triggered. for me I had weird black screen flash everytime my windows logged in. after disabling MSI it still happening, only after reinstalling nvidia drivers windows log in doesn't black screen anymore. and I wouldn't disable HT. it gives you threads to work on for cpu processes and services. if you disable that it will use the cpu causing interrupts which causes high dpc cause threads are usually faster with dpc. tcpip.sys wdm1000.sys are very heavy system files. HT threads help a lot making the cpu work a lot less and faster to complete the usage time it's needed.


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> definitely not a software issue. ive seen a few other people report the same thing. i'm on a 1070 so maybe it has something to do with haswell hyperthreading and nvidia pascal drivers? really no idea


Idd it can. Did you try without the GPU and HT off? If the latency is still there probably not the Pascal driver. The problem i described before only started after a windows 10 update... One thing you might try is to put the GPU in MSI mode, if it isn't already.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> wouldn't recommend to use MSI on nvidia desktop cards. it causes many weird issues not visible or happening at first. it takes time till they triggered. for me I had weird black screen flash everytime my windows logged in. after disabling MSI it still happening, only after reinstalling nvidia drivers windows log in doesn't black screen anymore. and I wouldn't disable HT. it gives you threads to work on for cpu processes and services. if you disable that it will use the cpu causing interrupts which causes high dpc cause threads are usually faster with dpc. tcpip.sys wdm1000.sys are very heavy system files. HT threads help a lot making the cpu work a lot less and faster to complete the usage time it's needed.


In my case i also have some black screens but only when exiting games but just a mouse click or a pressed key on keyboard and it goes to normal, usually i have task manager always open in my desktop and having a open program in desktop when i exit the games it only flickers balck and gives image right away . One thing i do think might be related to GPU in MSI mode, and i need to check it one of these days is when rebooting to BIOS i get a black screen and need to plug in onboard/CPU graphics/iGPU to get image back.
Besides that i must say i have lower latency now then before, although still a bit high for my liking, avg about 200 micro sec. I've known a good bunch of ppl that always put their GPU's in MSI... well i guess only thing to do is revert it and see how it is now.

What i advised before was so he could figure out if it's the pascal driver or not.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zaen*
> 
> Idd it can. Did you try without the GPU and HT off? If the latency is still there probably not the Pascal driver. The problem i described before only started after a windows 10 update... One thing you might try is to put the GPU in MSI mode, if it isn't already.


yea i tried all that. msi reduces dpc slightly other than that i cant tell the difference. dpc is stable unless i open a game with ht off. no biggie now that i figured whats the root cause. on another note i rolled back to the driver where they first addressed the whole pascal dpc latency issue and my games feel so much more responsive then with the latest drivers.


----------



## Nawafwabs

When I switch from UEFI to legacy bios I got this error 0xc000000e


----------



## Zaen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> yea i tried all that. msi reduces dpc slightly other than that i cant tell the difference. dpc is stable unless i open a game with ht off. no biggie now that i figured whats the root cause. on another note i rolled back to the driver where they first addressed the whole pascal dpc latency issue and my games feel so much more responsive then with the latest drivers.


Ok, good you tried other things :thumb:As i don't have a 10 series GPU and CPU doesn't have HT this driver issue is news to me, should check some news about it to see if any series 9 GPU is affected in any way, might explain previous issues i had before switching GPU to msi mode.


----------



## awkwardstevie

what driverf should i use for windows 10 64bit and gtx1060? Lastest give me a huge stutter in CSGO


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> what driverf should i use for windows 10 64bit and gtx1060? Lastest give me a huge stutter in CSGO


cant say for sure but to me 368.95 is good. just make sure to extract the driver and remove the unnecessary stuff you dont use


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> cant say for sure but to me 368.95 is good. just make sure to extract the driver and remove the unnecessary stuff you dont use


how do you can extract driver?

what i know is to install driver with custom setting and uncheck audio driver


----------



## Gonzalez07

7zip and extract..i just use the minimum since i dont need audio or even phsyx


----------



## Nawafwabs

i can say my old Aim back after change bios mode to legacy, no more skip pixels

u need to format and change boot to legacy


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> i can say my old Aim back after change bios mode to legacy, no more skip pixels
> 
> u need to format and change boot to legacy


There must be other settings that cause it. like Secure Boot or Windows UEFI Mode - Windows / Other OS . and many other settings.


----------



## awkwardstevie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> cant say for sure but to me 368.95 is good. just make sure to extract the driver and remove the unnecessary stuff you dont use


just installed 368.95 without craps

do u have any special settings in nvidia panel?


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> just installed 368.95 without craps
> 
> do u have any special settings in nvidia panel?


nope. u still get stutter?


----------



## awkwardstevie

ye im still having alot of stutter
also CSGO is blackscreening all the time when i went to desktop..


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> ye im still having alot of stutter
> also CSGO is blackscreening all the time when i went to desktop..


hmm duno. im on ltsb and no problems, are you on the creative update? might need a later driver for creative support. also make sure you use DDU to wipe drivers before reinstall.


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> what driverf should i use for windows 10 64bit and gtx1060? Lastest give me a huge stutter in CSGO


In my tests(just with different drivers) the best are 368.81 and 372.90. But I test all of it in UE4 games. I think 368.81, 368.95 and 372.90 should be identical in most cases, can be very wrong on this.
I still like 372.90 the most, because it is recommended driver by Epic(developers of UE4) for UE4 games and I get more or the same FPS with 372.90 compared to any other drivers.


----------



## awkwardstevie

u are right, 372.90 has best feeling that i had in years on csgo, not the best but mostly my game works smooth. Thanks mate!


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *1Shot1Frag*
> 
> Hi, i have one question and need your help:
> 
> Does changing Gamma or Digital Vibrance on nVidia control panel affects latency in any way?
> 
> Thanks!


Man why is this unanswered. I want to know how this affects both software and monitors.

I assume that changing color profiles from default settings might increase input lag because it is not native, no?

But from my experience I have a 23in Toshiba tv I used for gaming. It's standard home modes all have high input lag while its store mode has the least(Got me 66 avg elims on Overwatch). Store mode has extremely overly exaggerated vibrant colors but it allows me more in-game fps for some reason. So crazy.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Man why is this unanswered. I want to know how this affects both software and monitors.
> 
> I assume that changing color profiles from default settings might increase input lag because it is not native, no?


Using a color profile in Windows management does bog down mouse response. No idea why. Feels like it buffers another frame or something to use one (at least in Win 8.1).


----------



## Axaion

hes alive!

Hey r0ach! :O


----------



## RamenRider

dude, you've been gone for a year and now show up to reply to my comment.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Using a color profile in Windows management does bog down mouse response. No idea why. Feels like it buffers another frame or something to use one (at least in Win 8.1).


But what about nvidia color settings?

And are you still selling sound cards or network adapters? I have became enlightened since finding this thread.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timecard*
> 
> There's one tweak that's unmentioned on here, IRQ priority via registry.
> 
> -HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\PriorityControl\
> -Create new DWORD
> -Name: IRQ#Priority where # the IRQ you want to boost priority.
> -Value: # where (1 is highest priority)
> 
> Restart your computer and feel the difference in-game.
> 
> Most people have increased the priority of the CMOS clock (IRQ 8) which has an overall impact to the system, however you could try boosting the gpu, mouse, cpu IRQ priority.
> 
> This works on Win 7, 8, and 10.


if i have negative value should i put it like this

IRQ-2Priority >> is it true or should put it positive


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Using a color profile in Windows management does bog down mouse response. No idea why. Feels like it buffers another frame or something to use one (at least in Win 8.1).


How do you know this? I cannot feel any difference with DisplayCal.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> if i have irq
> if i have negative value should i put it like this
> 
> IRQ-2Priority >> is it true or should put it positive


Did you try this? Anyone tested this?


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Using a color profile in Windows management does bog down mouse response. No idea why. Feels like it buffers another frame or something to use one (at least in Win 8.1).


The legend r0ach is back ♥
Please made a new optimization Gaming Guide for Ryzen USERS :'(

I have Ryzen 5 1600
B350 motherboarrd chipset (asrock ab350 gaming k4 fatality)

we need your knowledge, im facing a huge lag, mostly Visual lag, by playing games such counter strike 1.6 even at 300 fps or 100 fps, the game feel like at 50 fps x.x
I ensure about not saving any power in GPU or windows with profiles like High performance etc
all drivers updated etc et,c please legend r0ach







!


----------



## PurpleChef

http://store.steampowered.com/app/384300/CPUCores__Maximize_Your_FPS/

Any good?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> The legend r0ach is back ♥
> Please made a new optimization Gaming Guide for Ryzen USERS :'(
> 
> I have Ryzen 5 1600
> B350 motherboarrd chipset (asrock ab350 gaming k4 fatality)
> 
> we need your knowledge, im facing a huge lag, mostly Visual lag, by playing games such counter strike 1.6 even at 300 fps or 100 fps, the game feel like at 50 fps x.x
> I ensure about not saving any power in GPU or windows with profiles like High performance etc
> all drivers updated etc et,c please legend r0ach
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !


The same as any system. Everything you need is in this thread. Youre not gonna get some magical answers.


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Using a color profile in Windows management does bog down mouse response. No idea why. Feels like it buffers another frame or something to use one (at least in Win 8.1).


Welcome back, *r0ach*. I have one but very important question for you. When you was creating this guide(nice job, btw), why didn't you test all of that using some high precision input lag tester, based on Arduino, for example?


Spoiler: Motion to photon latency tester Arduino Leonardo







It's not like there was no light sensors or Arduino back then. And it's not like you aren't smart enough or didn't have time to do it. So I ask this question myself for a pretty long time now. But I thought you left us for good. It's nice that you're back, though.

But that's exactly what I intend to do now: I want to test all of those tweaks you can find on the internet that claim they decrease motion to photon latency somehow. I did pretty much all of tweaks recommended by you. But I am sitting on Z170 motherboard, there are a lot of BIOS tweaks that aren't mentioned in your guide(FCLK frequency, hardware prefetcher, cache prefecther and many others). For a lot of these tweaks(that you recommended included) it is very hard to say which one is better(and results can vary on different hardware) in terms of motion to photon latency. So I figured the best way is to use some high precision(<1ms) motion to photon latency tester.

I ordered Arduino Leonardo 2 days ago together with light sensor LM393:


Spoiler: Light sensor LM393







Datasheet says that response time of this sensor is 1.3 us, which is very nice. And they say that using Arduino Leonardo you can measure time with 0.5us precision:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-get-an-Arduino-micros-function-with-05us-pr/

So worst case ~2 us precision? I can work with that!

PS It looks like r0ach dropped a message 1 week 4 days ago and disappeared again







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/384300/CPUCores__Maximize_Your_FPS/
> Any good?
> The same as any system. Everything you need is in this thread. Youre not gonna get some magical answers.


Yeah, I agree. It's not like *r0ach* or anyone else is going to buy a Ryzen-based rig(it's what $500-1000?) and then spend hundreds of hours testing hundreds and hundreds of BIOS and windows options specifically for *x58hazeTheGreat* himself, so His Majesty can play CSGO with smaller input lag.

PS Mean no offense *x58haze*, just kidding







. And the solution for your problem is above in my message.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/384300/CPUCores__Maximize_Your_FPS/
> 
> Any good?
> The same as any system. Everything you need is in this thread. Youre not gonna get some magical answers.


Thats kind of rude bro, because , This thread goes more for intel than AMD.. so is no the same bios, same options or what-so-ever, don't be.... rude, thanks.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> Welcome back, *r0ach*. I have one but very important question for you. When you was creating this guide(nice job, btw), why didn't you test all of that using some high precision input lag tester, based on Arduino, for example?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Motion to photon latency tester Arduino Leonardo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not like there was no light sensors or Arduino back then. And it's not like you aren't smart enough or didn't have time to do it. So I ask this question myself for a pretty long time now. But I thought you left us for good. It's nice that you're back, though.
> 
> But that's exactly what I intend to do now: I want to test all of those tweaks you can find on the internet that claim they decrease motion to photon latency somehow. I did pretty much all of tweaks recommended by you. But I am sitting on Z170 motherboard, there are a lot of BIOS tweaks that aren't mentioned in your guide(FCLK frequency, hardware prefetcher, cache prefecther and many others). For a lot of these tweaks(that you recommended included) it is very hard to say which one is better(and results can vary on different hardware) in terms of motion to photon latency. So I figured the best way is to use some high precision(<1ms) motion to photon latency tester.
> 
> I ordered Arduino Leonardo 2 days ago together with light sensor LM393:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Light sensor LM393
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Datasheet says that response time of this sensor is 1.3 us, which is very nice. And they say that using Arduino Leonardo you can measure time with 0.5us precision:
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-get-an-Arduino-micros-function-with-05us-pr/
> 
> So worst case ~2 us precision? I can work with that!
> Yeah, I agree. It's not like *r0ach* or anyone else is going to buy a Ryzen-based rig(it's what $500-1000?) and then spend hundreds of hours testing hundreds and hundreds of BIOS and windows options specifically for *x58hazeTheGreat* himself, so His Majesty can play CSGO with smaller input lag.
> 
> PS Mean no offense *x58haze*, just kidding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And the solution for your problem is above in my message.


Hello KulaGGin, which solution bro :O? and yeah i laugh with that thing of the Great haze, actually i was like Gifted with this pc, firs time in my life i get a job with a good pay in Dollars, because im from Venezuela, so my pc gets damage, and i saw the opportunity to buy a ryzen







, because of a friend from USA hired me for a freelance job related to a game, and i spend like 18-20 days, and finally i get paid, and thats one opportunity in a million , so for me thats like being gifted after many many years of being good guy, by helping others, etc etc ^^


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> Hello KulaGGin, which solution bro :O? and yeah i laugh with that thing of the Great haze, actually i was like Gifted with this pc, firs time in my life i get a job with a good pay in Dollars, because im from Venezuela, so my pc gets damage, and i saw the opportunity to buy a ryzen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , because of a friend from USA hired me for a freelance job related to a game, and i spend like 18-20 days, and finally i get paid, and thats one opportunity in a million , so for me thats like being gifted after many many years of being good guy, by helping others, etc etc ^^


Sure, good for you.

But the thing you requested(to get a rig, 'tune' it for gaming and then post all of it on the forums) is ludicrous. It would be even hard enough to find a man who would do it(and did a good job) for you if you paid him, as it was his daily job. The only real option for you if you want to actually get the maximum out of your PC is to make that kind of lag tester and then test every single one BIOS and Windows option you're interested in, one by one: On, Off; Input lag, FPS.

Choose the best option in terms of lag or FPS and move to the next option. After some time of testing you'll be able to find best ones. And it will feel much better when you play the game, especially at lower FPS. Then you can come to the forums and share all of your findings with other people. That's what I have a desire to do. But it's much easier said than done. It's hundreds and hundreds of hours of unpaid work, so you have to be very passionate about it.


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> The only real option for you if you want to actually get the maximum out of your PC is to make that kind of lag tester and then test every single one BIOS and Windows option you're interested in, one by one: On, Off; Input lag, FPS.


Then gets railed by not so good ping.


----------



## crankzt

any ideia why my benchmarks are so crappy?


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> Sure, good for you.
> 
> But the thing you requested(to get a rig, 'tune' it for gaming and then post all of it on the forums) is ludicrous. It would be even hard enough to find a man who would do it(and did a good job) for you if you paid him, as it was his daily job. The only real option for you if you want to actually get the maximum out of your PC is to make that kind of lag tester and then test every single one BIOS and Windows option you're interested in, one by one: On, Off; Input lag, FPS.
> 
> Choose the best option in terms of lag or FPS and move to the next option. After some time of testing you'll be able to find best ones. And it will feel much better when you play the game, especially at lower FPS. Then you can come to the forums and share all of your findings with other people. That's what I have a desire to do. But it's much easier said than done. It's hundreds and hundreds of hours of unpaid work, so you have to be very passionate about it.


Yeah i know ,i sound like a lazy-ass boy and i regret, but... AMD is not like Intel... amd has a tons of options in memory, south-bridge, north-bridge, tons, tons of options, and there are some options that if you changes you can damage the processor or something... releated to the motherboard itself... is not like intel... that you can damage that with only changing or exceeding voltages

Also in Google there are not much info that covers AMD bios, it is always Intel, intel

which is sad.... :/ people leave all on auto,auto, and thats not an option for me
Sorry for my Poor English.


----------



## x58haze

By the way, what do you think about my memory timmings?


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> I have Ryzen 5 1600
> B350 motherboarrd chipset (asrock ab350 gaming k4 fatality)
> 
> we need your knowledge, im facing a huge lag, mostly Visual lag, by playing games such counter strike 1.6 even at 300 fps or 100 fps, the game feel like at 50 fps x.x


Have you tried to disable SMT? It's an analog to Intel's Hyperthreading.
A lot of people say games run smoother and fps is much better in games on Unity engine.


----------



## Kyube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> The legend r0ach is back ♥
> Please made a new optimization Gaming Guide for Ryzen USERS :'(
> 
> I have Ryzen 5 1600
> B350 motherboarrd chipset (asrock ab350 gaming k4 fatality)
> 
> we need your knowledge, im facing a huge lag, mostly Visual lag, by playing games such counter strike 1.6 even at 300 fps or 100 fps, the game feel like at 50 fps x.x
> I ensure about not saving any power in GPU or windows with profiles like High performance etc
> all drivers updated etc et,c please legend r0ach
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !


Really easy thing to do, just use this thread as a base for tweaking the most basic stuff (power plan, nvidia/amd control panel, service&startup tweaks & other windows debloat tweaks [HAGGARDs thread about USB polling is also useful for this] and *SOME* BIOS tweaks).
Use a few commands in 1.6 to remove the unnecessary changes they've added with the 2013 patch on steam (m_rawinput 1, gl_ansio 0, m_mousethread_sleep 0 or 1, m_customaccel 0, m_customaccel_max 0, m_Customaccel_exponent 0, m_customaccel_max 0, low-end gpu option ticked in video settings, -nofbo -nomsaa -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel -freq or -refresh xx /depending on refresh rate, but almost any LCD can do 75hz/ in launch options) and you're good to go.
It's not like Ryzen is something completely new, just fiddle around and test it with LatencyMon or MouseTester and in-game tests (for fps). Don't rely on "feel", you're just gonna run into a lot of placebo.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> Really easy thing to do, just use this thread as a base for tweaking the most basic stuff (power plan, nvidia/amd control panel, service&startup tweaks & other windows debloat tweaks [HAGGARDs thread about USB polling is also useful for this] and *SOME* BIOS tweaks).
> Use a few commands in 1.6 to remove the unnecessary changes they've added with the 2013 patch on steam (m_rawinput 1, gl_ansio 0, m_mousethread_sleep 0 or 1, m_customaccel 0, m_customaccel_max 0, m_Customaccel_exponent 0, m_customaccel_max 0, low-end gpu option ticked in video settings, -nofbo -nomsaa -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel -freq or -refresh xx /depending on refresh rate, but almost any LCD can do 75hz/ in launch options) and you're good to go.
> It's not like Ryzen is something completely new, just fiddle around and test it with LatencyMon or MouseTester and in-game tests (for fps). Don't rely on "feel", you're just gonna run into a lot of placebo.


Yeah i have tried in the past things in windows 10, but my latency never goes below 20... so maybe im missing something, but this a paint in the ass :'(
Maybe it is like most user says: a electricity issue i dont know...

by the way can you link to me? that thing about (haggards) because i use my USB polling rate software mostly.

also i have apply tweaks like
-Nvidia control panel/drivers
-Battery Tweaks Windows
-Changing interrupts from LineBasement Q to MSI
-Disabling Power saving Features in USB PORTS, Ethernet, GPU video, cpu
-Disabling TASK SCHEDULING throught regedit
-Unparkin core cpu
-Removing Windows 10 Bloatwares
-Removing Windows 10 Cortana, One Drive, XBOX DVDR
-Disabling Indexing, Prefetch, Super Fetch
-Updating all my Drivers manually
-Disabling Windows Update/Firewalll
-I have unistalled/reinstall Windows Update to see if thats the problem...

I have tried to connect My motherboard without plug the USB front Cables, or AUDIOS cables, by unplug from power supply the molex cable of Internal Case FANS, plus external fans, by also disconnecting Optical Drivers, and leaving only one SSD for the Windows itself..
By testing others video Cards :/ like Gtx 580, 9600 XFX and my EVGA 1060 GTX, by testing a second monitor. x.x

But i dont know mouse just feel so Floaty or weird... i check with AIDA Extre 64, HWINFO60 recorded CSV.FILES with stressing with prime95 or Fire3dmark separated to upload to some forums, to people can see actually if something is weird, and they say temps are fine, voltages are fine...

So maybe im missing something with bios? or maybe im missing someting in this windows 10? :O? maybe i need to tweak others thing in bios or windows.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whood*
> 
> Have you tried to disable SMT? It's an analog to Intel's Hyperthreading.
> A lot of people say games run smoother and fps is much better in games on Unity engine.


Yeah i also have tried alread the Downcores 1+1 , or 2+0 ,3+3 4+0 to achieve 8 physicall cores 4 threads or 6 physical +6 threads, or 4 physical +4 thread, with SMT on or off
but it sighly help.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> Yeah i also have tried alread the Downcores 1+1 , or 2+0 ,3+3 4+0 to achieve 8 physicall cores 4 threads or 6 physical +6 threads, or 4 physical +4 thread, with SMT on or off
> but it sighly help.


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/post/5205752/#5205752

try markc fix

after the fix

enable enhance pointer percision


----------



## Nawafwabs

I'm sorry x58haze

I didn't know that your post at GeForce xD


----------



## x58haze




----------



## crankzt

i have the exact same problem as the guy on that forums, are my timmings correct?


----------



## Kyube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> Yeah i have tried in the past things in windows 10, but my latency never goes below 20... so maybe im missing something, but this a paint in the ass :'(
> Maybe it is like most user says: a electricity issue i dont know...
> 
> by the way can you link to me? that thing about (haggards) because i use my USB polling rate software mostly.
> 
> also i have apply tweaks like
> -Nvidia control panel/drivers
> -Battery Tweaks Windows
> -Changing interrupts from LineBasement Q to MSI
> -Disabling Power saving Features in USB PORTS, Ethernet, GPU video, cpu
> -Disabling TASK SCHEDULING throught regedit
> -Unparkin core cpu
> -Removing Windows 10 Bloatwares
> -Removing Windows 10 Cortana, One Drive, XBOX DVDR
> -Disabling Indexing, Prefetch, Super Fetch
> -Updating all my Drivers manually
> -Disabling Windows Update/Firewalll
> -I have unistalled/reinstall Windows Update to see if thats the problem...
> 
> I have tried to connect My motherboard without plug the USB front Cables, or AUDIOS cables, by unplug from power supply the molex cable of Internal Case FANS, plus external fans, by also disconnecting Optical Drivers, and leaving only one SSD for the Windows itself..
> By testing others video Cards :/ like Gtx 580, 9600 XFX and my EVGA 1060 GTX, by testing a second monitor. x.x
> 
> But i dont know mouse just feel so Floaty or weird... i check with AIDA Extre 64, HWINFO60 recorded CSV.FILES with stressing with prime95 or Fire3dmark separated to upload to some forums, to people can see actually if something is weird, and they say temps are fine, voltages are fine...
> 
> So maybe im missing something with bios? or maybe im missing someting in this windows 10? :O? maybe i need to tweak others thing in bios or windows.


well, if you wanna trust r0ach,w10 is bloatware and gives clown cursor (all nvidia drivers on it xD), so there's that








tbh, just take a chill pill and take a step back, try using "disable fullscreen optimization" by pressing right click > properties > compatibility.
you're thinking about it too much, placebo is playing games on you. you don't need to fiddle around with core affinity, that'll just drop your fps.
you could try installing w7/w8.1 and see if your "issue" is fixed.
usb polling precision


----------



## Unknownm

I think I'll share. only tested it with 15063 Build but I'm sure it works the same for newer. Please review the services before you run or else you might disable something you don't need...

It's one of the many things I use after a fresh install

Copy everything into .cmd or .bat



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



@echo off
echo Checking for Administrator elevation...
echo.
openfiles > NUL 2>&1
if %errorlevel%==0 (
echo Elevation found! Proceeding...
) else (
echo You are not running as Administrator...
echo This batch cannot do it's job without elevation!
echo.
echo Right-click and select ^'Run as Administrator^' and try again...
echo.
echo Press any key to exit...
pause > NUL
exit
)

title Tested on Win 10 15063
:home
cls
echo.
echo Select:
echo.
echo 1. Unknownm's Services
echo 2. Uninstall One Drive
echo 3. Permanently Remove Metro Apps

echo.

set /p web=Type option:
if "%web%"=="1" goto :TWEAK
if "%web%"=="2" goto :ONEDRIVE
if "%web%"=="3" goto :METRO
goto home

:TWEAK
cls
@echo off
echo.
echo Ready ?
echo.
echo (Hardware) (Network) (Windows)
echo.
pause

cls

echo.
echo [Hardware]
echo.
echo executable file that manages the printing process
echo.
sc config "Spooler" start= disabled
echo.
echo Might Error with newer Windows 10 builds
echo opens custom printer dialog boxes and handles notifications from a remote print server or a printer
echo.
sc config "PrintNotify" start= disabled
echo.
echo telephony state on the device
echo.
sc config "PhoneSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Broadband GSM CDMA module adapters and connections
echo.
sc config "WwanSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo WiFi WPS Protocol
echo.
sc config "wcncsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo ability to capture, compare, manipulate, and store biometric data
echo.
sc config "WbioSrvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Touch screens
echo.
sc config "TabletInputService" start= disabled
echo.
echo Telephone
echo.
sc config "TapiSrv" start= disabled
echo.
echo user has logged on with a smart card and subsequently removes that smart card from the reader
echo.
sc config "SCPolicySvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Radio Management and Airplane Mode Service
echo.
sc config "RmSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Infrared monitor service
echo.
sc config "irmon" start= disabled
echo.
echo NOTES:
echo disable App-V through powershell
echo //Disable-Appv (without //)
echo.
pause
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo [NETWORK]
echo.
echo server to share file and print resources with clients
echo.
sc config "LanmanServer" start= disabled
sc config "LanmanWorkstation" start= disabled
echo.
echo networking tasks associated with configuration and maintenance of homegroups
echo.
sc config "HomeGroupProvider" start= disabled
sc config "HomeGroupListener" start= disabled
echo.
echo HomeGroups and IPv6 transition technologies rely on iphlpsvc
echo.
sc config "iphlpsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo NetBIOS over TCP/IP is a networking protocol that allows legacy computer applications
echo relying on the NetBIOS API to be used on modern TCP/IP networks.
echo.
sc config "lmhosts" start= disabled
echo.
echo The Distributed Link Tracking Client is responsible for tracking links to files saved on a file server
echo.
sc config "TrkWks" start= disabled
echo.
echo Data Usage Subscription
echo.
sc config "DusmSvc" start= Disabled
echo.
echo Not using a Proxy?
echo.
sc config "WinHttpAutoProxySvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Remote Desktop Services
echo.
sc config "TermService" start= disabled
sc config "UmRdpService" start= disabled
sc config "SessionEnv" start= disabled
echo.
echo P2P
echo decentralized platform whereby two individuals interact directly with each other, without intermediation
echo by a third-party, or without the use of a company of business selling a product or service.
echo.
sc config "p2psvc" start= disabled
sc config "p2pimsvc" start= disabled
sc config "PNRPsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo ability to share TCP ports over the net.tcp protocol
echo.
sc config "NetTcpPortSharing" start= disabled
echo.
echo Routes messages based on rules to appropriate clients
echo.
sc config "SmsRouter" start= disabled
echo.
echo Host service for the Microsoft Storage Spaces management provider
echo.
sc config "smphost" start= disabled
echo.
echo Internet SCSI sessions from your computer to remote iSCSI target devices
echo.
sc config "MSiSCSI" start= disabled
echo.
echo Share cellular data with another device
echo.
sc config "icssvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Enables multiple clients to access video frames from camera devices
echo.
sc config "FrameServer" start= disabled
echo.
echo keeps files synced with between two computers across a network
echo.
sc config "CscService" start= disabled
echo.
echo processes WSMan requests received over the network
echo.
sc config "WinRM" start= disabled
echo.
echo Receives trap messages generated by local or remote SNMP agents
echo and forwards the messages to SNMP management programs running on this computer.
echo.
sc config "SNMPTRAP" start= disabled
echo.
pause
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo [Windows]
echo.
echo Error Reporting Service
echo.
sc config "WerSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Security Center Warns about disabled
echo.
sc config "wscsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo monitors the current location of the system and manages geofences
echo.
sc config "lfsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Provides content indexing, property caching, and search results for files, e-mail, and other content.
echo.
sc config "WSearch" start= disabled
echo.
echo monitors programs that are being installed for compatibility problems and helps fix any it finds.
echo.
sc config "PcaSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Control of Windows Themes
echo.
sc config "Themes" start= disabled
echo.
echo enables problem detection, troubleshooting and resolution for Windows components
echo.
sc config "DPS" start= disabled
echo.
echo Not sure why access is deniend. ignore if no error
echo.
sc config "SecurityHealthService" start= disabled
echo.
echo WMI performance adapter which collects information regarding performance
echo.
sc config "wmiApSrv" start= disabled
echo.
echo application access to downloaded maps
echo.
sc config "MapsBroker" start= disabled
echo.
echo The service stores forwarded events in a local Event Log. If this service is stopped or disabled
echo event subscriptions cannot be created and forwarded events cannot be accepted.
echo.
sc config "Wecsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo preloads and makes programs you use more often quick to access. Sucking more ram
echo.
sc config "SysMain" start= disabled
echo.
echo Optimizes performance of applications by caching commonly used font data
echo.
sc config "FontCache" start= disabled
sc config "FontCache3.0.0.0" start= disabled
echo.
echo Not much information
echo.
sc config "DoSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Hosts objects used by clients of the wallet
echo.
sc config "WalletService" start= disabled
echo.
echo viewing, sending and deletion of system-level problem reports for the Problem
echo Reports and Solutions control panel
echo.
sc config "wercplsupport" start= disabled
echo.
echo Performance Logs and Alerts Collects performance data from local computers
echo.
sc config "pla" start= disabled
echo.
echo Indexes contact data for fast contact searching
echo.
sc config "PimIndexMaintenanceSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Internet Explorer. When running, this service collects real time ETW events and processes them
echo.
sc config "IEEtwCollectorService" start= disabled
echo.
echo Not enabled by default. Best to disable though
sc config "RetailDemo" start=disabled
echo.
echo enables data collection about functional issues in Windows components.
echo.
sc config "diagtrack" start=disabled
echo.
echo KeyLogger
echo.
sc config "dmwappushservice" start=disabled
echo.
echo Windows Media Player Sharing Service
echo.
sc config "WMPNetworkSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Delete xbox features, break xbox apps? (Y/N)
echo.
echo disable options inside app first
echo gamedvr will run even if app doesn't work
echo.
set /p web=Type option:
if "%web%"=="y" goto :d_xbox
if "%web%"=="n" goto :s_xbox
:d_xbox
sc config "NcdAutoSetup" start= disabled"
sc config "XblAuthManager" start= disabled"
sc config "XblGameSave" start= disabled"
sc config "XboxNetApiSvc" start= disabled"
goto home
:s_xbox
goto home

:ONEDRIVE
cls
echo.
echo Remove One Drive? (y/n)
echo.
set /p web=Type option:
if "%web%"=="y" goto :y_od
if "%web%"=="n" goto :n_od

:y_od
echo.
echo Uninstalling OneDrive
set x86="%SYSTEMROOT%\System32\OneDriveSetup.exe"
set x64="%SYSTEMROOT%\SysWOW64\OneDriveSetup.exe"
taskkill /f /im OneDrive.exe > NUL 2>&1
ping 127.0.0.1 -n 5 > NUL 2>&1
if exist %x64% (
%x64% /uninstall
) else (
%x86% /uninstall
)
ping 127.0.0.1 -n 8 > NUL 2>&1
rd "%USERPROFILE%\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
rd "C:\OneDriveTemp" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
rd "%LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
rd "%PROGRAMDATA%\Microsoft OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
echo.
echo Removeing OneDrive from the Explorer Side Panel.
REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Wow6432Node\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
goto home
:n_od
goto home

:METRO
cls
echo.
echo Permanently Remove Metro Apps
echo.
echo Ready?
echo.

pause

powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *BingFinance* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *BingNews* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *BingSports* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *BingWeather* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *Getstarted* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *MicrosoftOfficeHub* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *MicrosoftSolitaireCollection* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *Office.OneNote* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *People* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *SkypeApp* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *WindowsAlarms* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *WindowsCamera* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *windowscommunicationsapps* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *WindowsMaps* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *WindowsPhone* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *XboxApp* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *ZuneMusic* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *ZuneVideo* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
powershell "Get-appxprovisionedpackage -online | Where DisplayName -like *3DBuilder* | remove-appxprovisionedpackage -online"
pause

goto home


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/post/5205752/#5205752
> 
> try markc fix
> 
> after the fix
> 
> enable enhance pointer percision


Wait what? Enable enhance pointer after using MarkC?? For everyone not just Ryzen users?


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Wait what? Enable enhance pointer after using MarkC?? For everyone not just Ryzen users?


yes for everyone

I got better aim when I leave it on after apply the fix

sorry about my english


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> yes for everyone
> 
> I got better aim when I leave it on after apply the fix
> 
> sorry about my english


you sure ? using the fix and enabling the enhance mouse? isn't that makes it no 1:1 when enabling it?


----------



## Gonzalez07

supposed to uncheck epp after mouse fix..


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> well, if you wanna trust r0ach,w10 is bloatware and gives clown cursor (all nvidia drivers on it xD), so there's that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh, just take a chill pill and take a step back, try using "disable fullscreen optimization" by pressing right click > properties > compatibility.
> you're thinking about it too much, placebo is playing games on you. you don't need to fiddle around with core affinity, that'll just drop your fps.
> you could try installing w7/w8.1 and see if your "issue" is fixed.
> usb polling precision


Thanks so much buddy, i did install w7 followed haggard guide and mouse experience is a little better, but there are some things that i dont understand from that guide, which i actually ended up by commenting,i was hoping if you can help me a little be

This was my comment link on that thread/topic
http://www.overclock.net/t/1550666/usb-polling-precision/760#post_26299936


----------



## Curleyyy

EC2A - Win7 - i7 3770k, Maximus V Gene


----------



## iBerggman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> EC2A - Win7 - i7 3770k, Maximus V Gene
> 
> 
> ]


Have you done any additional tweaks or updates to the os or is it just a normal win 7 install? I installed win 7 today and after the first boot I got a stable 1000hz polling like in your screenshot but then after I installed some updates and followed the win 7 install and optimization guide the polling rate now fluctuates sometimes up to +-25hz and I rarely see an even 1000hz in MouseMovement Recorder.


----------



## Curleyyy

Okay, um. I'll try keep it short but I basically just...

1.) Pre-configure MOBO BIOS: Disable features, USB3.0, HPET, HT, etc,. also overclock now.
2.) Download the latest Windows 7 x64 ISO and use RUFUS to install VIA USB.
3.) Format > Delete > Install onto your SSD/HDD of choice.

4.) Once installed and on desktop: Manually install Drivers: Intel LAN, Sata, Chipset, GPU, Xonar Audio, etc,.
5.) Disable Windows Features / Control Panel
6.) Run Windows Update a few times AFTER STEP 5

7.) Install personal programs and configure them. IE: Steam, Discord, Spotify, Chrome > Disable Hardware Accel, etc,.
8.) Next up, uninstall all the program extras. IE: Adobe Lightroom > Uninstall Adobe Creative Cloud updater.

*Here's where it gets fun!*

9.) Install Registry Tweaks https://i.imgur.com/Jkq0l0V.png
10.) Patch Windows / Install Themes https://i.imgur.com/GVslWFb.png
11.) Run Extra Tweaky Programs https://i.imgur.com/0lSaJ8W.png

12.) The rest of the tweaks are personal preference, or there's just too many of them to list so instead I exported my Google Chrome Bookmark folder and uploaded it to TinyUpload, link below. There's heaps of things here from moving User Folders, disabling NVIDIA HD Audio to setting up MSI Mode.

*BUT!!!! The biggest part comes from this alone...*

13.) MSCONFIG
Normal Startup > Startup Tab > Disable All > Services Tab > Hide All > Disable Remaining > Boot Tab > Make All Perm > No GUI

14.) VIPER REGISTRY TWEAK
Run the safe registry tweak from the viper website

15.) SMART UTILITY
Run the advanced (2) tweak and restart, once done reboot and open Services.MSC

16.) SERVICES.MSC
Start disabling extra things you don't need like Print Spooler > Super Fetch > Shell Hardware Detection > NVIDIA Display Container LS

_Should_ look something like this now









*Task Manager:*
https://i.imgur.com/hQciAsb.png
https://i.imgur.com/djcpbgi.png

*Services.MSC:*
https://i.imgur.com/Djh7xNw.png


----------



## crankzt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Okay, um. I'll try keep it short but I basically just...
> 
> 1.) Pre-configure MOBO BIOS: Disable features, USB3.0, HPET, HT, etc,. also overclock now.
> 2.) Download the latest Windows 7 x64 ISO and use RUFUS to install VIA USB.
> 3.) Format > Delete > Install onto your SSD/HDD of choice.
> 
> 4.) Once installed and on desktop: Manually install Drivers: Intel LAN, Sata, Chipset, GPU, Xonar Audio, etc,.
> 5.) Disable Windows Features / Control Panel
> 6.) Run Windows Update a few times AFTER STEP 5
> 
> 7.) Install personal programs and configure them. IE: Steam, Discord, Spotify, Chrome > Disable Hardware Accel, etc,.
> 8.) Next up, uninstall all the program extras. IE: Adobe Lightroom > Uninstall Adobe Creative Cloud updater.
> 
> *Here's where it gets fun!*
> 
> 9.) Install Registry Tweaks https://i.imgur.com/Jkq0l0V.png
> 10.) Patch Windows / Install Themes https://i.imgur.com/GVslWFb.png
> 11.) Run Extra Tweaky Programs https://i.imgur.com/0lSaJ8W.png
> 
> 12.) The rest of the tweaks are personal preference, or there's just too many of them to list so instead I exported my Google Chrome Bookmark folder and uploaded it to TinyUpload, link below. There's heaps of things here from moving User Folders, disabling NVIDIA HD Audio to setting up MSI Mode.
> 
> *BUT!!!! The biggest part comes from this alone...*
> 
> 13.) MSCONFIG
> Normal Startup > Startup Tab > Disable All > Services Tab > Hide All > Disable Remaining > Boot Tab > Make All Perm > No GUI
> 
> 14.) VIPER REGISTRY TWEAK
> Run the safe registry tweak from the viper website
> 
> 15.) SMART UTILITY
> Run the advanced (2) tweak and restart, once done reboot and open Services.MSC
> 
> 16.) SERVICES.MSC
> Start disabling extra things you don't need like Print Spooler > Super Fetch > Shell Hardware Detection > NVIDIA Display Container LS
> 
> _Should_ look something like this now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Task Manager:*
> https://i.imgur.com/hQciAsb.png
> https://i.imgur.com/djcpbgi.png
> 
> *Services.MSC:*
> https://i.imgur.com/Djh7xNw.png


nice cheats u got there on favorites lmao


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crankzt*
> 
> nice cheats u got there on favorites lmao


You leave all usefull links and focus on bad things?

this kid need to learn some respect


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> yes for everyone
> 
> I got better aim when I leave it on after apply the fix
> 
> sorry about my english


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> you sure ? using the fix and enabling the enhance mouse? isn't that makes it no 1:1 when enabling it?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> supposed to uncheck epp after mouse fix..


Actually Nawafwabs is right. I got better aim from turning it on as well because enhanced precision activates MarkC. From the readme itself:
Quote:


> HOW DO YOU KNOW THE FIX IS WORKING?
> 
> You can test if it is working by temporarily turning on the 'Enhance
> pointer precision' feature and see how the mouse responds.
> (NOTE: Unless you applied one of the Windows 2000 or Windows 98/95
> Acceleration fixes, only turn 'Enhance pointer precision' on for
> testing: it should normally be set OFF.)
> 
> If you have 'Enhance pointer precision' OFF, then the fix will not be
> active (but it will be waiting to be activated when needed).
> Just as some games turn it on when you don't want them to, we can turn
> it on manually to test that the fix is working properly.


Now to add onto this, I wouldn't have known about windows dpi just a few days ago if it weren't for MarkC. For an entire year I have been plagued with bad aim that I just could not figure out. For an entire year I have been using this thread to find out what is wrong and it turns out, there are 3 sensitivity settings. Mouse DPI, In Game Sensitivity, and Windows DPI. Now I found out my problem, I was on windows default 100% this entire time. As a wrist twitch specialist I relied on windows acceleration but didn't realize it until now. All that is left for me now, is to find my sweetspot again. Wish me luck.

Edit: upon further research. It seems that it is different for different dpi settings. At 150% or 125% DPI with MarkC and Enhanced Precision I performed significantly less. At 200% it performed better with EP but without MarkC. Still need more data.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Actually Nawafwabs is right. I got better aim from turning it on as well because enhanced precision activates MarkC. From the readme itself:
> Now to add onto this, I wouldn't have known about windows dpi just a few days ago if it weren't for MarkC. For an entire year I have been plagued with bad aim that I just could not figure out. For an entire year I have been using this thread to find out what is wrong and it turns out, there are 3 sensitivity settings. Mouse DPI, In Game Sensitivity, and Windows DPI. Now I found out my problem, I was on windows default 100% this entire time. As a wrist twitch specialist I relied on windows acceleration the whole time but didn't realize it until now. All that is left for me now, is to find my sweetspot again. Wish me luck.


try 1600 dpi & 3/6 windows sensitivity & turn off raw input(if option exist in game)

with those setting, I found my aim constant and responsive

if you play overwatch my sensitivity 2.5


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Actually Nawafwabs is right. I got better aim from turning it on as well because enhanced precision activates MarkC. From the readme itself:


strong placebo. from mark c himself
'Enhance pointer precision' OFF means: Acceleration is turned OFF.

'Enhance pointer precision' ON means: Acceleration is turned ON.
This fix applied means: How much acceleration is turned ON? Zero acceleration = 0.0.

Both OFF and ON give the same result = No acceleration, but why manually turn it on and then use the fix to set the amount of acceleration to zero?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> strong placebo. from mark c himself
> 'Enhance pointer precision' OFF means: Acceleration is turned OFF.
> 
> 'Enhance pointer precision' ON means: Acceleration is turned ON.
> This fix applied means: How much acceleration is turned ON? Zero acceleration = 0.0.
> 
> Both OFF and ON give the same result = No acceleration, but why manually turn it on and then use the fix to set the amount of acceleration to zero?


Maybe some games use acceleration all the time and you need to select it on because there is no way to disable it.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> strong placebo. from mark c himself
> 'Enhance pointer precision' OFF means: Acceleration is turned OFF.
> 
> 'Enhance pointer precision' ON means: Acceleration is turned ON.
> This fix applied means: How much acceleration is turned ON? Zero acceleration = 0.0.
> 
> Both OFF and ON give the same result = No acceleration, but why manually turn it on and then use the fix to set the amount of acceleration to zero?


why manually turn it on and then use the fix to set the amount of acceleration to zero?

There is difference when you turn ON after fix

make Aim better than leave it off


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> why manually turn it on and then use the fix to set the amount of acceleration to zero?
> 
> There is difference when you turn ON after fix
> 
> make Aim better than leave it off


I didn't understand what you meant here at all. can you explain again ?


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Okay, um. I'll try keep it short but I basically just...
> 
> 1.) Pre-configure MOBO BIOS: Disable features, USB3.0, HPET, HT, etc,. also overclock now.
> 2.) Download the latest Windows 7 x64 ISO and use RUFUS to install VIA USB.
> 3.) Format > Delete > Install onto your SSD/HDD of choice.
> 
> 4.) Once installed and on desktop: Manually install Drivers: Intel LAN, Sata, Chipset, GPU, Xonar Audio, etc,.
> 5.) Disable Windows Features / Control Panel
> 6.) Run Windows Update a few times AFTER STEP 5
> 
> 7.) Install personal programs and configure them. IE: Steam, Discord, Spotify, Chrome > Disable Hardware Accel, etc,.
> 8.) Next up, uninstall all the program extras. IE: Adobe Lightroom > Uninstall Adobe Creative Cloud updater.
> 
> *Here's where it gets fun!*
> 
> 9.) Install Registry Tweaks https://i.imgur.com/Jkq0l0V.png
> 10.) Patch Windows / Install Themes https://i.imgur.com/GVslWFb.png
> 11.) Run Extra Tweaky Programs https://i.imgur.com/0lSaJ8W.png
> 
> 12.) The rest of the tweaks are personal preference, or there's just too many of them to list so instead I exported my Google Chrome Bookmark folder and uploaded it to TinyUpload, link below. There's heaps of things here from moving User Folders, disabling NVIDIA HD Audio to setting up MSI Mode.
> 
> *BUT!!!! The biggest part comes from this alone...*
> 
> 13.) MSCONFIG
> Normal Startup > Startup Tab > Disable All > Services Tab > Hide All > Disable Remaining > Boot Tab > Make All Perm > No GUI
> 
> 14.) VIPER REGISTRY TWEAK
> Run the safe registry tweak from the viper website
> 
> 15.) SMART UTILITY
> Run the advanced (2) tweak and restart, once done reboot and open Services.MSC
> 
> 16.) SERVICES.MSC
> Start disabling extra things you don't need like Print Spooler > Super Fetch > Shell Hardware Detection > NVIDIA Display Container LS
> 
> _Should_ look something like this now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Task Manager:*
> https://i.imgur.com/hQciAsb.png
> https://i.imgur.com/djcpbgi.png
> 
> *Services.MSC:*
> https://i.imgur.com/Djh7xNw.png


Why have a hyperthreading CPU to then disable HT? May as well have bought an i5 instead of i7.


----------



## Crymore13

Did everything that you said and: (but I'm using HT and USB3.0)



Not the better but it is ok, Thanks


----------



## vf-

What sort of speed were you moving the mouse? As in how slow once you stop it seeing 1000Hz...


----------



## Curleyyy

Has anyone ever had the luxury to notice when their mouse goes from a heavy to a floating feeling? It's Godly and satisfying in every regard @[email protected]

Best thing you can do is minimize those background processors! I sit on 23 with everything closed and 26~ with Steam/CSGO open.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vf-*
> 
> Why have a hyperthreading CPU to then disable HT? May as well have bought an i5 instead of i7.


That was weird, I couldn't reply to your post, I had to click Multi then Reply...

Um, better per-core-performance, i7's are binned higher than i5's and in a few games like CSGO I get a noticeably higher frame rate besides that it was only like an extra $50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> Did everything that you said and: (but I'm using HT and USB3.0)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the better but it is ok, Thanks


I could never figure out that program tbh, it's dependant on how you move your mouse, each test will show different results if you swipe or circle or go left or right...


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> Did everything that you said and: (but I'm using HT and USB3.0)
> 
> 
> 
> Not the better but it is ok, Thanks


Windows 10


*
15.) SMART UTILITY
Run the advanced (2) tweak and restart, once done reboot and open Services.MSC
*
What`s SMART UTILITY? Where can I find it?


----------



## Curleyyy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> Windows 10
> 
> 
> *
> 15.) SMART UTILITY
> Run the advanced (2) tweak and restart, once done reboot and open Services.MSC
> *
> What`s SMART UTILITY? Where can I find it?


SMART Utility is a unofficial Windows 7 tool that allows you to easily set presets for "services.msc" saving you tons of time disabling things.
_*NOTE: I have used it on Window 10 but I can't recall if it did anything plus there's a **** ton more services there so it would only affect half if anything._

*USAGE:* _To get the most out of it, I do the following steps:_

*1.) MSCONFIG*
a.) Start Menu
b.) Type in "msconfig"
c.) Go to the General Tab and select "Normal Startup"
d.) Go to the Services Tab > Hide All Microsoft > Disable All
e.) Go to the Startup Tab > disable all
f.) Go to the Boot Tab > Make Boot Settings Permanent > No GUI Boot > Advanced Options > Tick "Number of Processors" and "Maximum Memory"
g.) Press OK / APPLY and Reboot

Follow the image below for easy steps.


*2.) Black Viper Windows 7 Safe Tweak*

a.) Download the relevant Black Viper Registry Tweak to your system.
http://www.blackviper.com/2010/12/16/windows-7-service-pack-1-services-registry-files-2/

b.) Extract the archive to anywhere
c.) Run the tweak and it imports all into the registry.



*3.) SMART Utility*

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/smart-a-utility-for-tweaking-windows-7-vista-xp-services

Download the program, you can put it anywhere only need to use once then you can delete it if you want.

a.) After you have done all of the above open SMART Utility
b.) Press the drop down box and select either option

*Moderate turns off everything but keeps on Aero Themes, Firewall, etc.
*Advanced turns off everything including Aero Themes, DDWM, Firewall, etc,.



*4.) SERVICES.MSC*

a.) Restart your PC after it applies.
b.) Once back on the desktop, go to Start and type "Services.MSC"
c.) Disable the following services manually:

*Print Spooler (uses like 200mb ram)
*SuperFetch (uses almost a gb of ram)
*Shell Hardware Detection (uses **** all)
*NVIDIA Display Container LS (and any other nvidia/amd services) (reduces latency and makes your mouse feel more floaty)

d.) Restart once more and you're done... For the services.

*TLDR --- TLDR --- TLDR --- TLDR*

1.) MSCONFIG > start menu, turn it all off
2.) VIPER REGISTRY > run the registry tweak
3.) SMART UTILITY > open the program and run advanced preset
4.) SERVICES.MSC > disable further services (print spooler, superfetch, nvidia, shell hardware)

Hope this helps a few people









Also just found these two sites, pretty dope.

http://zowie.benq.com/en/support/mouse-rate-checker.html
http://www.i-am-bored.com/2008/10/mouse-101-test.html


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crymore13*
> 
> Did everything that you said and: (but I'm using HT and USB3.0)
> 
> 
> Not the better but it is ok, Thanks


I'd better run my tests again as I think I've picked the wrong graphs...


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> SMART Utility is a unofficial Windows 7 tool that allows you to easily set presets for "services.msc" saving you tons of time disabling things.
> _*NOTE: I have used it on Window 10 but I can't recall if it did anything plus there's a **** ton more services there so it would only affect half if anything._
> 
> *USAGE:* _To get the most out of it, I do the following steps:_
> 
> *1.) MSCONFIG*
> a.) Start Menu
> b.) Type in "msconfig"
> c.) Go to the General Tab and select "Normal Startup"
> d.) Go to the Services Tab > Hide All Microsoft > Disable All
> e.) Go to the Startup Tab > disable all
> f.) Go to the Boot Tab > Make Boot Settings Permanent > No GUI Boot > Advanced Options > Tick "Number of Processors" and "Maximum Memory"
> g.) Press OK / APPLY and Reboot
> 
> Follow the image below for easy steps.
> 
> 
> *2.) Black Viper Windows 7 Safe Tweak*
> 
> a.) Download the relevant Black Viper Registry Tweak to your system.
> http://www.blackviper.com/2010/12/16/windows-7-service-pack-1-services-registry-files-2/
> 
> b.) Extract the archive to anywhere
> c.) Run the tweak and it imports all into the registry.
> 
> 
> 
> *3.) SMART Utility*
> 
> http://www.thewindowsclub.com/smart-a-utility-for-tweaking-windows-7-vista-xp-services
> 
> Download the program, you can put it anywhere only need to use once then you can delete it if you want.
> 
> a.) After you have done all of the above open SMART Utility
> b.) Press the drop down box and select either option
> 
> *Moderate turns off everything but keeps on Aero Themes, Firewall, etc.
> *Advanced turns off everything including Aero Themes, DDWM, Firewall, etc,.
> 
> 
> 
> *4.) SERVICES.MSC*
> 
> a.) Restart your PC after it applies.
> b.) Once back on the desktop, go to Start and type "Services.MSC"
> c.) Disable the following services manually:
> 
> *Print Spooler (uses like 200mb ram)
> *SuperFetch (uses almost a gb of ram)
> *Shell Hardware Detection (uses **** all)
> *NVIDIA Display Container LS (and any other nvidia/amd services) (reduces latency and makes your mouse feel more floaty)
> 
> d.) Restart once more and you're done... For the services.
> 
> *TLDR --- TLDR --- TLDR --- TLDR*
> 
> 1.) MSCONFIG > start menu, turn it all off
> 2.) VIPER REGISTRY > run the registry tweak
> 3.) SMART UTILITY > open the program and run advanced preset
> 4.) SERVICES.MSC > disable further services (print spooler, superfetch, nvidia, shell hardware)
> 
> Hope this helps a few people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also just found these two sites, pretty dope.
> 
> http://zowie.benq.com/en/support/mouse-rate-checker.html
> http://www.i-am-bored.com/2008/10/mouse-101-test.html


Thanks a lot









I will give it try


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> 3.) Format > Delete > Install onto your SSD/HDD of choice.


So you have UEFI boot?


----------



## x58haze

This ryzen pc is killing me with the USB DRIVERS i have inconsistent MHZ in my mouse and if i remember this G9 logitech made in 2008 was development to run good at 1000 MHZ, now even at 512 on this ryzen is so inconsistent x.x also when trying to install some ryzen 3.0 windows 7 64 bit on windows 10, to get better, the speed, throw me BSDO







maybe someone here got the answers?

HELP
I cannot play FPS games shooters with this inconsistent is so horrible, is like mouse FLOAT i dont know my windows 10 is fresh install properly configured.. except these drivers universal even when installing last AMD CHIPSET :/





Even when dropping MHZ to 333 inconsistent :/


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x58haze*
> 
> This ryzen pc is killing me with the USB DRIVERS i have inconsistent MHZ in my mouse and if i remember this G9 logitech made in 2008 was development to run good at 1000 MHZ, now even at 512 on this ryzen is so inconsistent x.x also when trying to install some ryzen 3.0 windows 7 64 bit on windows 10, to get better, the speed, throw me BSDO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe someone here got the answers?
> 
> HELP
> I cannot play FPS games shooters with this inconsistent is so horrible, is like mouse FLOAT i dont know my windows 10 is fresh install properly configured.. except these drivers universal even when installing last AMD CHIPSET :/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even when dropping MHZ to 333 inconsistent :/


Have you tried fresh install without "properly configured", just left everything be as is it? Maybe you have done something wrong.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MooMoo*
> 
> Have you tried fresh install without "properly configured", just left everything be as is it? Maybe you have done something wrong.


the thing is when doing fresh windows 10 install, all device will be in Yellow, them i just proceed to install AMD chipset drivers latest 17:30 ,and problem persist x.x
Maybe there are out there special drivers of windows 7 that work better for ryzen under windows 10??


----------



## Curleyyy

You don't really need to install the "Chipset Drivers" anyway. Those yellow icons in device manager don't really mean much and they're not really... Oh heck let me just post a quote.
Quote:


> Preliminary Notes regarding Intel's Chipset "Drivers"
> 
> The "Intel(R) Chipset Device Software" (formerly named "Intel(R) INF Update Utility")
> seems to be the most overestimated "driverpack" for Intel Chipset system:
> 
> Only a minority of the Intel Chipset users know, that the on-board Intel Chipset devices are working fine without any "Intel(R) Chipset Device Software". In various Forums you can read the advice to install the "latest Intel Chipset Drivers" as first and much important step after the installation of any Windows Operating System. Otherwise the users will never get a stable and performant system.
> 
> The reality is quite different:
> 
> Although the Device Manager shows the information files as "drivers",
> the "Intel(R) Chipset Device Software" doesn't contain any real driver (= .SYS file), but just textmode (= .INF) files, which
> 
> a) let the OS know, that for the related Intel Chipset Device a driver is neither needed nor available and
> b) gives the user the information, that the related device is an Intel one.
> 
> None of the Windows Operating Systems needs the .INF files for a proper functionality.
> The Intel Chipset "drivers" don't have any impact on the performance of a system.


Remember you can also install drivers using the device manager page, usually allows you to install things without all the other junk that come with it, looks something like this.

https://imgur.com/3vl89wu

Also, also I noticed different versions / locations would change things. For example the ASUS version of the Intel INF file for my motherboard is 260 MB whereas the direct Intel one from 2013 is <50mb and the recently updated one from Janurary was only a few MB as well as both the Intel / ASUS version had different names for a few things like same / similar name just longer version or inclusion of some number scheme.

You could even be installing an incorrect version (there's dozens even for my board I got confused) and this isn't fixing the issue but maybe you could make do with yellow icons for more consistent performance rather than "updated" drivers.


----------



## rivage

Would you mind uploading your folders Curleyyy with all the registry tweaks and so forth?


----------



## Curleyyy

Sure! Tbh there's not much - I deleted a few things so the file size would be smaller but they weren't required.

Uploads almost finished:

EDIT: Updates finished: https://www.sendspace.com/file/pcgdx9

EDIT 2: I made a bookmarks folder but can't find it, lmao sorry.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Sure! Tbh there's not much - I deleted a few things so the file size would be smaller but they weren't required.
> 
> Uploads almost finished:
> 
> EDIT: Updates finished: https://www.sendspace.com/file/pcgdx9
> 
> EDIT 2: I made a bookmarks folder but can't find it, lmao sorry.


Thank's a lot man! got my 1st SSD ever and installed it a few days ago, i need some sort of guide to optimize it.

But I found this : http://www.overclock.net/t/1156654/seans-windows-7-install-optimization-guide-for-ssds-hdds

I think it's good.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Sure! Tbh there's not much - I deleted a few things so the file size would be smaller but they weren't required.
> 
> Uploads almost finished:
> 
> EDIT: Updates finished: https://www.sendspace.com/file/pcgdx9
> 
> EDIT 2: I made a bookmarks folder but can't find it, lmao sorry.


Dear all mighty Curleyyy , would you help me with my problem :'(? , can you check the thread that i made here in Overclock.net i promess is so short, i posted screenshoots under the (spoiler) tag, so it is very organized, explaining my problems, showing the Mouse polling rate issues, plz,plz









http://www.overclock.net/t/1637613/inconsistent-mhz-help

Thank so much ♥


----------



## Nawafwabs

if i install windows 7 as second system on separate harddrive

will this tweak run perfectly?

bcuz i need windows 10


----------



## Nawafwabs

this result after install win 7 and all tweak for win 7


----------



## Crymore13

Windows 7
GTX 1070 driver 385.41
Zowie FK1+ 1000hz
Maximus V Gene Z77
i7 2600K 4.4Ghz 100.5Mhz bus
All power saving disabled on bios(almost everything else enabled that I use, what I don't use I disabled(USB 3.0 enabled))

Everything running really smooth, games running perfect without any stutter. I'm really happy with the results. I think that I can do better but I'm ok, no need to get better.

Thanks Curleyyy(http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/3390_30#post_26307140 | http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/3420_30#post_26318545)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Gonzalez07

nvm


----------



## Nawafwabs

windows 7 is awesome, dpc latency so low on it


----------



## PurpleChef

No moderaters in this thread?
Quote:


> nvm


Quote:


> windows 7 is awesome, dpc latency so low on it


Thanks for sharing this info


----------



## Jubileu

OK. I already had some great gaming mice in the past as Razer Deathadder 2013, Cooler Master Alcor, and now Logitech G403 - and they all looked like $5 mice when playing FPS games on my PC (even after changing my mouse pad). After following up this guide, my accuracy improved A LOT! Also, I discovered that my Intel USB 3.0 ports give me the worst results. Thanks for the guide, OP!


----------



## kittinzaa

One technique never mention in this thread is to use CRU to eliminate all unuse mornitor driver profiles
,I've tested with couple mornitors seem its could reduced inputlag a lot.

Basically is to remove all unuse resolution profiles
Also Create Custom Profile for HDMI,Displayport
ex. to stop port to sending Audio data,TV resolution that mostly nerver use etc.

Download CRU here : https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> One technique never mention in this thread is to use CRU to eliminate all unuse mornitor driver profiles
> ,I've tested with couple mornitors seem its could reduced inputlag a lot.
> 
> Basically is to remove all unuse resolution profiles
> Also Create Custom Profile for HDMI,Displayport
> ex. to stop port to sending Audio data,TV resolution that mostly nerver use etc.
> 
> Download CRU here : https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU


not really useable for 4k Tvs, you will mess up the 3D or the HDR or Dolby if you have and cause other issues.
for my Tv the 59 hz works better than 60hz because it's a Tv. if I try to use the 60hz it will cause issues, at least from the signaling, can't remember the other issues right now


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> One technique never mention in this thread is to use CRU to eliminate all unuse mornitor driver profiles
> ,I've tested with couple mornitors seem its could reduced inputlag a lot.
> 
> Basically is to remove all unuse resolution profiles
> Also Create Custom Profile for HDMI,Displayport
> ex. to stop port to sending Audio data,TV resolution that mostly nerver use etc.
> 
> Download CRU here : https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU


what should I use for dvi in datablock ?


----------



## kittinzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> what should I use for dvi in datablock ?


Just add 1 main resolution in first block ,Could leave extensions block as blank since its doesn't need HDMI support.
have an additional display would be good to reset default when somethings doesn't work.


----------



## kittinzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> not really useable for 4k Tvs, you will mess up the 3D or the HDR or Dolby if you have and cause other issues.
> for my Tv the 59 hz works better than 60hz because it's a Tv. if I try to use the 60hz it will cause issues, at least from the signaling, can't remember the other issues right now


This method have no risk at all (it just edit profile on the windows side nothings is change on hardware)so you can revert anythings back to default anytime you want ,take sometimes playaround with the settings.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> This method have no risk at all you can revert anythings back to default anytime you want so take sometimes playaround with the settings.


I know I didn't talk about risjs, it just doesn't work properly for 4k 3d tvs


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> Just add 1 main resolution in first block ,Could leave extensions block as blank since its doesn't need HDMI support.
> have an additional display would be good to reset default when somethings doesn't work.


thank you so much


----------



## Nastya

There is probably no justification to do this _at all_, but if deleting a few bits gives you a tingly feeling inside, then by all means, go for it.


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> try 1600 dpi & 3/6 windows sensitivity & turn off raw input(if option exist in game)
> 
> with those setting, I found my aim constant and responsive
> 
> if you play overwatch my sensitivity 2.5


Actually forget everything I said zoro. It wasn't anything about my aim. It was Overwatch's piss poor optimization for windows 7.

I just installed W10 and my god the difference is night and day. You could say w7 overwatch is literally unplayable, at least competitively/non hitscan champs. The reason performance was so bad this whole year was because my W10 was failing from latency issues which forced me to downgrade to w7.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Actually forget everything I said zoro. It wasn't anything about my aim. It was Overwatch's piss poor optimization for windows 7.
> 
> I just installed W10 and my god the difference is night and day. You could say w7 overwatch is literally unplayable, at least competitively/non hitscan champs. The reason performance was so bad this whole year was because my W10 was failing from latency issues which forced me to downgrade to w7.


you say you fix your latency by install win 10 again !

what version do you install? ( windows 10 pro , windows 10 enterprise, windows 10 home)

i think i will stay with win7 found it low latency than win10


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> you say you fix your latency by install win 10 again !
> 
> what version do you install? ( windows 10 pro , windows 10 enterprise, windows 10 home)
> 
> i think i will stay with win7 found it low latency than win10


I just used the free upgrade that allows you to revert if you don't like it. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade This gave me a free authorized version of windows since I was on a pirated win7.

After that I used Roach's Win10 guide along with O&OShutUp10's recommended config. http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/oo_shutup10.html

But yeah. I'm only doing all of this for overwatch. The worst optimized game I've ever spent this much time trying to fix.


----------



## Syntractrix




----------



## Axaion

Not really useable without keyboard, internet and gfx card drivers - now is it?

Im pretty sure people want a functioning PC with the lowest variance they can get.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> I just used the free upgrade that allows you to revert if you don't like it. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade This gave me a free authorized version of windows since I was on a pirated win7.
> 
> After that I used Roach's Win10 guide along with O&OShutUp10's recommended config. http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/oo_shutup10.html
> 
> But yeah. I'm only doing all of this for overwatch. The worst optimized game I've ever spent this much time trying to fix.


I play 10 overwatch competitive games on windows 10 I lose it all

and I play 10 overwatch competitive games on windows 7 I win 8 of them

windows 10 make me crazy and every time I run my PC sometimes give me good mouse movement and low input lag sometimes I feel my aim worst aim in the world

Update: i try windows 10 16299.15 it feel more responsive than windows 7


----------



## Nawafwabs

i want to add this Tweak

BIOS

disable windows 7 support installation & Windows 8.1/10 whql support in Bios before install windows


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> Windows 8.1/10 whql support in Bios


It should be already disabled if you use CSM-compatible boot and not UEFI.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> i try windows 10 16299.15 it feel more responsive than windows 7


W10 v1709 is more responsive than W10 v1703 and even W10 v1607, but W7? I doubt that.


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> I play 10 overwatch competitive games on windows 10 I lose it all
> 
> and I play 10 overwatch competitive games on windows 7 I win 8 of them
> 
> windows 10 make me crazy and every time I run my PC sometimes give me good mouse movement and low input lag sometimes I feel my aim worst aim in the world
> 
> Update: i try windows 10 16299.15 it feel more responsive than windows 7


It is also combination of bad tweaks that made overwatch unplayable for me.

Right now I found my sweet spot again. It is setting all of my bios settings to optimal(including enabling hpet) + Setting NvidiaCP settings to application controlled + maybe locking OS sensitivity from my mouse software.

I ran some tests and it turns out disabling bios settings like HPET increases so much input lag on my mouse that I can actually feel it and probably even record it. Turns out AMD is better optimized with it on in BIOS so the OS can manage a variety of timings. Roach even said himself about BIOS and Nvidia settings that might not do anything but only affect mouse movement. http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/190#post_22440222

Setting Texture Filtering Quality to High Quality also made me lose responsiveness.

So this guide is definitely not for AMD users and some tweaks are just a load of bull. Do not do every tweak as it will affect performance. Honestly after reverting all of my tweaks to just using my BIOS's defined optimal settings my mouse feels the most responsive in a year since I first started using this guide.

There is a difference between actually real world performance data and dpc latency. They are not the same thing. In the end actual performance will always be desired because it has realistic value and benefit. DPC Latency is in no way an indicator of responsiveness. The only thing it helped me with is to update my drivers.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Th3Awak3n1ng*
> 
> It should be already disabled if you use CSM-compatible boot and not UEFI.
> W10 v1709 is more responsive than W10 v1703 and even W10 v1607, but W7? I doubt that.


YES, Windows 8.1/10 whql support already disable(if u not using UEFI) but windows 7 installation is enabled by default


----------



## Zyther

What do we do for new Z370 boards. A lot of the high end ones have no USB 2 ports. Some being all USB 3.1 gen1.


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> I play 10 overwatch competitive games on windows 10 I lose it all
> 
> and I play 10 overwatch competitive games on windows 7 I win 8 of them
> 
> windows 10 make me crazy and every time I run my PC sometimes give me good mouse movement and low input lag sometimes I feel my aim worst aim in the world
> 
> Update: i try windows 10 16299.15 it feel more responsive than windows 7


You obviously dont know how to set up your system and OS. Try Lite Edition version of W10.
Quote:


> Diffrence bewteen win 10 pro and Win 10 Lite edition
> Lite Edition Is faster
> Lite Edition Better Perfomance
> Lite Edition Better Boot Time
> Lite Edition Smaller Size ISO
> Lite Edition Fast Installation
> Lite Edition No More Telemetry
> Lite Edition Its Close too LTSB


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> You obviously dont know how to set up your system and OS. Try Lite Edition version of W10.


Nice, trustful source you got on that one

Unless you use WinXP BEAST (tm) Mega Edition, then you clearly should just buy a mac.


----------



## PurpleChef

Or u can make One yourself. Worst case scenario using This version? Losing CS go skins? xD
All i do is game and make music. Couldnt tweak all myself, but to lazy. runs supersmooth already.
Mac sux. Been There done that


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Or u can make One yourself. Worst case scenario using This version? Losing CS go skins? xD
> All i do is game and make music. Couldnt tweak all myself, but to lazy. runs supersmooth already.
> Mac sux. Been There done that


i will try lite version to see if it faster than 16299 or not


----------



## Gangast

Hello! How can I fix this?
I'm using windows 8.1 + hpet off


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> i will try lite version to see if it faster than 16299 or not


After try windows 10 elite

Its not fast or smooth as 16299.15

Like windows 10 pro no different


----------



## awkwardstevie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> In my tests(just with different drivers) the best are 368.81 and 372.90. But I test all of it in UE4 games. I think 368.81, 368.95 and 372.90 should be identical in most cases, can be very wrong on this.
> I still like 372.90 the most, because it is recommended driver by Epic(developers of UE4) for UE4 games and I get more or the same FPS with 372.90 compared to any other drivers.


something changed or should i still use 372.90 on my fresh windows 10 fall creator update? / gtx1060 xtreme gaming


----------



## PurpleChef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> After try windows 10 elite
> 
> Its not fast or smooth as 16299.15
> 
> Like windows 10 pro no different


Based on what?


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> something changed or should i still use 372.90 on my fresh windows 10 fall creator update? / gtx1060 xtreme gaming


Seems the 1080 Ti cannot go any further back than 378.78. I decided to try 381.65 as it was the first driver for Quake Champions.


----------



## Zyther

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zyther*
> 
> What do we do for new Z370 boards. A lot of the high end ones have no USB 2 ports. Some being all USB 3.1 gen1.


Anyone know how mice behave on native USB3.1 vs USB2?


----------



## pox02

i test windows 10.0.10586 with most of everything disabled dwm/timebroker/etc and its amazing os the only issue i get is the OS force to use Gpu Scaling but in real world 1ms cant be noticeable











run it for 5 min

the kernel exe is patchguard bypass


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> i test windows 10.0.10586 with most of everything disabled dwm/timebroker/etc and its amazing os the only issue i get is the OS force to use Gpu Scaling but in real world 1ms cant be noticeable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> run it for 5 min
> 
> the kernel exe is patchguard bypass


u can make Scaling on display By CRU

how do you disable dwm ?


----------



## pox02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> u can make Scaling on display By CRU
> 
> how do you disable dwm ?


hooking functions


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pox02*
> 
> hooking functions


i don't understand you


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awkwardstevie*
> 
> something changed or should i still use 372.90 on my fresh windows 10 fall creator update? / gtx1060 xtreme gaming


No.


----------



## Timecard

Windows 10 Fall Update just released greatly improved mouse performance/accuracy/fluidity in win10 for those of you who weren't already part of the insider builds for fall creators update.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6nw6es/fix_issues_with_mouse_problemsraw_input_off_in/

Confirmed by MS engineer and others who are on it now.


----------



## x7007

Can someone check 3D with powerdvd ?

using windows 10 fall creators with powerdvd17 + 3D + NVidia 387.92 , the issue is it goes into 3D mode and then loop into 2D - 3D - 2D - 3D all the time . the TV is also blinking black every 2 sec.
It was working fine without the Fall Creators, same drivers , same everything.

Using WinDVD12 3D works. but is it windows issue or driver issue ? I don't want to revert drivers every time , I need to know where the problem so I can report it. I will also need more people confirm it anyway so I'll know it's not just me.


----------



## shadyshade

Hello guys! Im register here only to tell you 1 THING THAT U CANT IMAGINE.
I spent 6 month for searching how to fix floaty mouse on input lag. Spent 3k$ for 2 pcs,motherboards etc. You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT). AND BOOOOOOOOM UR MOUSE LIKE IN 2005. Trust me.i was semi-pro in CSGO and proplayer in LOL.I know how its impossible to play with floaty mouse.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadyshade*
> 
> Hello guys! Im register here only to tell you 1 THING THAT U CANT IMAGINE.
> I spent 6 month for searching how to fix floaty mouse on input lag. Spent 3k$ for 2 pcs,motherboards etc. You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT). AND BOOOOOOOOM UR MOUSE LIKE IN 2005. Trust me.i was semi-pro in CSGO and proplayer in LOL.I know how its impossible to play with floaty mouse.


what about other device that cause issues without it enabled?


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadyshade*
> 
> Hello guys! Im register here only to tell you 1 THING THAT U CANT IMAGINE.
> I spent 6 month for searching how to fix floaty mouse on input lag. Spent 3k$ for 2 pcs,motherboards etc. You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT). AND BOOOOOOOOM UR MOUSE LIKE IN 2005. Trust me.i was semi-pro in CSGO and proplayer in LOL.I know how its impossible to play with floaty mouse.


But it seems that some motherboard has that option like FORCE either enable or disabled, here in my AMD b350 chipset at least the only option with PS/2 it is called:

Super IO configuration brings this option:

PS2 Y-CABLE (auto or enable) only that option, there is not such USB LEGACY SUPPORT.

In this ryzen i have A CSM options like this:

-Lauch PXE opRom Policy (legacy or uefi)
-Launch Storage opRom Policy (legacy or uefi)
-Launch Video 0pRom Policy (Legacy or Uefi)

Also it cames with a Promontory options for USB like:

-PT USB REDRIVER (auto,enable,disable)
-PT USB EQUALIZATION (auto,enable,disable)
-PT XHCI GEN1 (enable,disable,auto)
-PT XHCI GEN2(enable, disable, auto)

XHCI-Controller Enable (auto,disable,enable) etc

So maybe my motheboard is locked has some functions either forced or disabled, and i need to use AMCBIOS a software to unlock those options, but im kinda scare


----------



## Timecard

Just fyi Windows 8.1/10 whql bios option is so that developpers can test their system against/with whql environment, gigabyte support does not recommend using it in regular installations.


----------



## Antsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadyshade*
> 
> Hello guys! Im register here only to tell you 1 THING THAT U CANT IMAGINE.
> I spent 6 month for searching how to fix floaty mouse on input lag. Spent 3k$ for 2 pcs,motherboards etc. You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT). AND BOOOOOOOOM UR MOUSE LIKE IN 2005. Trust me.i was semi-pro in CSGO and proplayer in LOL.I know how its impossible to play with floaty mouse.


Did you find that you had to re-install Windows after changing that setting to see the difference? Or just disable it in BIOS?


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadyshade*
> 
> Hello guys! Im register here only to tell you 1 THING THAT U CANT IMAGINE.
> I spent 6 month for searching how to fix floaty mouse on input lag. Spent 3k$ for 2 pcs,motherboards etc. You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT). AND BOOOOOOOOM UR MOUSE LIKE IN 2005. Trust me.i was semi-pro in CSGO and proplayer in LOL.I know how its impossible to play with floaty mouse.


So I have these settings:

Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
USB 2.0 Controller Mode [HiSpeed]
BIOS EHCI Hand-Off [Enabled]
Legacy USB1.1 HC Support [Enabled]

USB 1.1 Controller [Enabled]
USB 2.0 Controller [Enabled]

Are you telling me to turn off all the legacy items then reinstall windows?(If I just disable legacy it fades out the first 4).

Does anyone have proof that this works?


----------



## Sptz

Would you guys say the AM4 (Ryzen) environment is more latency inducing than Intels? Noticeably so?


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> So I have these settings:
> 
> Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
> USB 2.0 Controller Mode [HiSpeed]
> BIOS EHCI Hand-Off [Enabled]
> Legacy USB1.1 HC Support [Enabled]
> 
> USB 1.1 Controller [Enabled]
> USB 2.0 Controller [Enabled]
> 
> *Are you telling me to turn off all the legacy items* then reinstall windows?


If you do that you wont be able to get back into the BIOS.


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vf-*
> 
> If you do that you wont be able to get back into the BIOS.


I have a ps/2 keyboard so it's alright.

But has anyone tested to see if that pro's method works?


----------



## RamenRider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timecard*
> 
> Windows 10 Fall Update just released greatly improved mouse performance/accuracy/fluidity in win10 for those of you who weren't already part of the insider builds for fall creators update.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6nw6es/fix_issues_with_mouse_problemsraw_input_off_in/
> 
> Confirmed by MS engineer and others who are on it now.


This doesn't affect anyone who uses MarkC right?

And how would one obtain this insider build?


----------



## Timecard

Ramen, it affects everyone using Windows 10 Creators Update. MarkC attempts to make mouse movement 1:1 when Enhanced Pointer Precision is enabled.
You don't need insider build you just need to update/install latest version of Windows 10 (Fall Creators Update).


----------



## PurpleChef

What would legacy enabled in bios do to Windows installation?


----------



## Timecard

Legacy mouse mode emulates a PS/2 or AT device when a USB mouse is used with a OS that doesn't support it. Newer operating systems shouldn't have this problem so you should be able to safely disable it.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RamenRider*
> 
> Are you telling me to turn off all the legacy items then reinstall windows?(If I just disable legacy it fades out the first 4).
> 
> Does anyone have proof that this works?


I can't boot from USB flash if I turn off "Legacy USB Support", so anyway I have to enable it to install Windows.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shadyshade*
> 
> You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT).


So you suggest to install Windows in UEFI mode or what?

Sry for double post.


----------



## PurpleChef

Windows 10 on i5 4670K with some tweaks. Usb soundcard, usb 3.0 enabled.

Low latency doing nothing, but no latency problems while gaming etc. Super smooth mouse.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Windows 10 on i5 4670K with some tweaks. Usb soundcard, usb 3.0 enabled.
> 
> Low latency doing nothing, but no latency problems while gaming etc. Super smooth mouse.




always NVIDIA driver


----------



## x58haze

Back in the mouse topic, if you people realise that these people that are posting their screenshoots of mouse-movement recorder, with perfectly mouse-movements without scaling Hertz or drops at all like steady 990-1000 hz, that seems to be because of Windows 7 and some tweaks
All about Windows 7 Kernel

Because comparing to Windows 10 kernel, any build seems to have inconsistent Hertz. like Mouse-movement recorder maybe doesn't like windows 10 kernel

I did many test on old hardware pc with windows 7 and yeah my mouse if put on 333mhz, it will drop to 320hz and scale to 340 as maximum, same with 500hz, it will steady between 460-490-500 hz and sometimes drops to 70 or 200 in case of moving to slow, or making the cursor jump!

But in Windows 10 any build it will show bad numbers in Mouse-movement recorder or included that mouse-software.

Like 333hz would scale to 480-500, or drops to 180-150, same 500hz, and 1000hz etc.


----------



## unkletom

For some reason LatencyMon only records the system for like 16 seconds then stops every time.


----------



## Birdlfew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unkletom*
> 
> For some reason LatencyMon only records the system for like 16 seconds then stops every time.


Same with me, any ideas? On a fresh install it runs forever. I'm not sure what I changed


----------



## lurker2501

It's been four years and I think the original post needs to be updated for newer chipsets and win 10 later versions.


----------



## Nastya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> It's been four years and I think the original post needs to be updated for newer chipsets and win 10 later versions.


How do you update this guide, still lacking the fundamental data to back these tweaks up? Giving well-founded suggestions and trying to back those up would be the way to go in order to rewrite this.
As far as Windows 10 goes, just so little to be tweaked has changed under the hood since then - apart from changes to DWM behavior. There are tons of tutoriasl to decrapify Windows 10, so what new things would you like to include?


----------



## lurker2501

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndiWandi*
> 
> How do you update this guide, still lacking the fundamental data to back these tweaks up? Giving well-founded suggestions and trying to back those up would be the way to go in order to rewrite this.
> As far as Windows 10 goes, just so little to be tweaked has changed under the hood since then - apart from changes to DWM behavior. There are tons of tutoriasl to decrapify Windows 10, so what new things would you like to include?


Fundamental data? What? Somebody just needs to measure latency and input lag before and after and post results.

In regards to win 10:
-new services,
-new programs
-new drivers
-disabling telemetry
-new built-in apps

Maybe even include third party programs for streaming recording gaming.
And of course new bios features on newer chipsets.


----------



## x7007

Does Logitech Gaming Software effect mouse speed or lag input ?


----------



## unkletom

Word on the street is that r0ach scammed a Turkish person on the internet out of several bitcoins and fled to south america on a luxurious yacht. So don't expect updates any time soon.


----------



## x58haze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> Fundamental data? What? Somebody just needs to measure latency and input lag before and after and post results.
> 
> In regards to win 10:
> -new services,
> -new programs
> -new drivers
> -disabling telemetry
> -new built-in apps
> 
> Maybe even include third party programs for streaming recording gaming.
> And of course new bios features on newer chipsets.


Also adding information about RYZEN too!

AMD seems to lack of information regardless to Bios!
INTEL= Full covered bios information

So it is time too that some people there, make a great guide as r0ach did with INTEL

Also i support updating this thread with new Services, New programs, new drivers, telemetry, new built in apps, etc
More support but plz included AMD TOO x.x is not all about intel :/


----------



## x7007

If you have Windows 10 1709 , make sure you don't have something called HEVC Video Extension . it crap out the SSD and CPU USAGE non stop if you have videos on some folders .

Uninstall it !

it fixed my DPC Latency I had issued with.

Also you need to have DRIVERS for everything !! even if it's DISABLED Device , install the drivers for it. I didn't install the drivers for my Asus STRIX RAID DLX and I had always some bad jumps 150 + and didn't reach perfectly 0-15 , and it stayed usually 50-90 all the times . it had just the MIcrosoft drivers and it even was DISABLED ! . after installing the driver even with the device ENABLED ! I had better latency and also DISABLED was the same !

I mean I couldn't believe that even DISABLED device can cause issues when the drivers are not installed. it must add some registries or some better advanced support for some OS that causes it to read/write better and have lower latency I/O Queues.

I can watch Video / Play games or hear Music and the latency stays always the same ! before it was jumping all the times to 100+ and go down. never over 500 , but still .

I just have some random 120-150 jumps, but they are very random, something just must happened that causing it.

The nvidia jumps always happening because of power saving of nvidia. but it doesn't effect anything. also the nvidia is going up when my TV turned off and turned on because it does something behind. anyway it doesn't affect anything because it happens once because of nvidia clock that ramps up.


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> *If you have Windows 10 1709 , make sure you don't have something called HEVC Video Extension . it crap out the SSD and CPU USAGE non stop if you have videos on some folders .
> 
> Uninstall it !
> 
> it fixed my DPC Latency I had issued with.*
> 
> Also you need to have DRIVERS for everything !! even if it's DISABLED Device , install the drivers for it. I didn't install the drivers for my Asus STRIX RAID DLX and I had always some bad jumps 150 + and didn't reach perfectly 0-15 , and it stayed usually 50-90 all the times . it had just the MIcrosoft drivers and it even was DISABLED ! . after installing the driver even with the device ENABLED ! I had better latency and also DISABLED was the same !
> 
> I mean I couldn't believe that even DISABLED device can cause issues when the drivers are not installed. it must add some registries or some better advanced support for some OS that causes it to read/write better and have lower latency I/O Queues.
> 
> I can watch Video / Play games or hear Music and the latency stays always the same ! before it was jumping all the times to 100+ and go down. never over 500 , but still .
> 
> I just have some random 120-150 jumps, but they are very random, something just must happened that causing it.
> 
> The nvidia jumps always happening because of power saving of nvidia. but it doesn't effect anything. also the nvidia is going up when my TV turned off and turned on because it does something behind. anyway it doesn't affect anything because it happens once because of nvidia clock that ramps up.


Was this just issue that you experienced or did you hear/read others having the same exactly issue?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MooMoo*
> 
> Was this just issue that you experienced or did you hear/read others having the same exactly issue?


I had this issue for a long time. and it got worse with the hevc.


----------



## chuckiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> If you have Windows 10 1709 , make sure you don't have something called HEVC Video Extension . it crap out the SSD and CPU USAGE non stop if you have videos on some folders .
> 
> Uninstall it !
> 
> it fixed my DPC Latency I had issued with.
> 
> Also you need to have DRIVERS for everything !! even if it's DISABLED Device , install the drivers for it. I didn't install the drivers for my Asus STRIX RAID DLX and I had always some bad jumps 150 + and didn't reach perfectly 0-15 , and it stayed usually 50-90 all the times . it had just the MIcrosoft drivers and it even was DISABLED ! . after installing the driver even with the device ENABLED ! I had better latency and also DISABLED was the same !
> 
> I mean I couldn't believe that even DISABLED device can cause issues when the drivers are not installed. it must add some registries or some better advanced support for some OS that causes it to read/write better and have lower latency I/O Queues.
> 
> I can watch Video / Play games or hear Music and the latency stays always the same ! before it was jumping all the times to 100+ and go down. never over 500 , but still .
> 
> I just have some random 120-150 jumps, but they are very random, something just must happened that causing it.
> 
> The nvidia jumps always happening because of power saving of nvidia. but it doesn't effect anything. also the nvidia is going up when my TV turned off and turned on because it does something behind. anyway it doesn't affect anything because it happens once because of nvidia clock that ramps up.


Hi I can't find how to disable HEVC can u help me please? and what's that thing u using (Timer...) on the right side of your screeshot


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> Hi I can't find how to disable HEVC can u help me please? and what's that thing u using (Timer...) on the right side of your screeshot


you can get the app from here https://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool official site
The program shows you in real time the Resolution Time Clock which helps to see when program want to change it and wants faster/better reaction or the fastest system resolution time.

about the HEVC search in APPS Add/remove search in Windows Start > Add remove and search there HEVC

or enter here

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/hevc-video-extension/9n4wgh0z6vhq

and see if you have GET or OPEN . if it's GET then you don't have it installed , if it's GET then it's not installed , you don't have to do anything then.


----------



## chuckiz

OK thank you


----------



## Avalar

Just a heads up for anyone running AMD Ryzen on an ASRock motherboard. I've found that disabling Suspend to RAM, C6 Core, and HPET reduces DPC latency and causes no system instability that I could see. Disabling "Global C-State Control" halved my current latency (I went from 60-80 to ~30-40), BUT this introduced a problem where my CPU would not run at the speed I had overclocked it to. OC'd it to 3.6GHz and turning C-State Control off forced it to 3.39GHz in Windows, and only appeared as the stock 3.200 in the UEFI.


----------



## Unknownm

10 x64 15063 rs2. Modified


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> 10 x64 15063 rs2. Modified


Bigger pictures pls?

Also, what did you do? Maybe it's something I haven't done yet. I don't have a lot of experience with Win 10 yet.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Bigger pictures pls?.


Click the picture to bring up the Gallery View, then click Original and you'll get the full size.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Click the picture to bring up the Gallery View, then click Original and you'll get the full size.


Thanks


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> 10 x64 15063 rs2. Modified
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bigger pictures pls?
> 
> Also, what did you do? Maybe it's something I haven't done yet. I don't have a lot of experience with Win 10 yet.
Click to expand...

1st: cmd file I wrote to disable services w/ xbox & onedrive

copy text and save as .bat or .cmd


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



@echo off
echo Checking for Administrator elevation...
echo.
openfiles > NUL 2>&1
if %errorlevel%==0 (
echo Elevation found! Proceeding...
) else (
echo You are not running as Administrator...
echo This batch cannot do it's job without elevation!
echo.
echo Right-click and select ^'Run as Administrator^' and try again...
echo.
echo Press any key to exit...
pause > NUL
exit
)

title Tested on Win 10 16232
:home
cls
echo.
echo Select:
echo.
echo 1. Unknownm's Services
echo 2. Uninstall One Drive
echo 3. N/A

echo.

set /p web=Type option:
if "%web%"=="1" goto :TWEAK
if "%web%"=="2" goto :ONEDRIVE
if "%web%"=="3" goto :METRO
goto home

:TWEAK
cls
@echo off
echo.
echo Ready ?
echo.
echo (Hardware) (Network) (Windows)
echo.
pause

cls

echo.
echo [Hardware]
echo.
echo executable file that manages the printing process
echo.
sc config "Spooler" start= disabled
echo.
echo Might Error with newer Windows 10 builds
echo opens custom printer dialog boxes and handles notifications from a remote print server or a printer
echo.
sc config "PrintNotify" start= disabled
echo.
echo telephony state on the device
echo.
sc config "PhoneSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Broadband GSM CDMA module adapters and connections
echo.
sc config "WwanSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo WiFi WPS Protocol
echo.
sc config "wcncsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo ability to capture, compare, manipulate, and store biometric data
echo.
sc config "WbioSrvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Touch screens
echo.
sc config "TabletInputService" start= disabled
echo.
echo Telephone
echo.
sc config "TapiSrv" start= disabled
echo.
echo user has logged on with a smart card and subsequently removes that smart card from the reader
echo.
sc config "SCPolicySvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Radio Management and Airplane Mode Service
echo.
sc config "RmSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Infrared monitor service
echo.
sc config "irmon" start= disabled
echo.
echo Disabling Hibnation file
echo.
powercfg -h off
echo.
echo NOTES:
echo disable App-V through powershell
echo //Disable-Appv (without //)
echo.
pause
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo [NETWORK]
echo.
echo server to share file and print resources with clients
echo.
sc config "LanmanServer" start= disabled
sc config "LanmanWorkstation" start= disabled
echo.
echo networking tasks associated with configuration and maintenance of homegroups
echo.
sc config "HomeGroupProvider" start= disabled
sc config "HomeGroupListener" start= disabled
echo.
echo HomeGroups and IPv6 transition technologies rely on iphlpsvc
echo.
sc config "iphlpsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo NetBIOS over TCP/IP is a networking protocol that allows legacy computer applications
echo relying on the NetBIOS API to be used on modern TCP/IP networks.
echo.
sc config "lmhosts" start= disabled
echo.
echo The Distributed Link Tracking Client is responsible for tracking links to files saved on a file server
echo.
sc config "TrkWks" start= disabled
echo.
echo Data Usage Subscription
echo.
sc config "DusmSvc" start= Disabled
echo.
echo Not using a Proxy?
echo.
sc config "WinHttpAutoProxySvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Remote Desktop Services
echo.
sc config "TermService" start= disabled
sc config "UmRdpService" start= disabled
sc config "SessionEnv" start= disabled
echo.
echo P2P
echo decentralized platform whereby two individuals interact directly with each other, without intermediation
echo by a third-party, or without the use of a company of business selling a product or service.
echo.
sc config "p2psvc" start= disabled
sc config "p2pimsvc" start= disabled
sc config "PNRPsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo ability to share TCP ports over the net.tcp protocol
echo.
sc config "NetTcpPortSharing" start= disabled
echo.
echo Routes messages based on rules to appropriate clients
echo.
sc config "SmsRouter" start= disabled
echo.
echo Host service for the Microsoft Storage Spaces management provider
echo.
sc config "smphost" start= disabled
echo.
echo Internet SCSI sessions from your computer to remote iSCSI target devices
echo.
sc config "MSiSCSI" start= disabled
echo.
echo Share cellular data with another device
echo.
sc config "icssvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Enables multiple clients to access video frames from camera devices
echo.
sc config "FrameServer" start= disabled
echo.
echo keeps files synced with between two computers across a network
echo.
sc config "CscService" start= disabled
echo.
echo processes WSMan requests received over the network
echo.
sc config "WinRM" start= disabled
echo.
echo Receives trap messages generated by local or remote SNMP agents
echo and forwards the messages to SNMP management programs running on this computer.
echo.
sc config "SNMPTRAP" start= disabled
echo.
pause
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo.
echo [Windows]
echo.
echo Error Reporting Service
echo.
sc config "WerSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Security Center Warns about disabled
echo.
sc config "wscsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo monitors the current location of the system and manages geofences
echo.
sc config "lfsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Provides content indexing, property caching, and search results for files, e-mail, and other content.
echo.
sc config "WSearch" start= disabled
echo.
echo monitors programs that are being installed for compatibility problems and helps fix any it finds.
echo.
sc config "PcaSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo enables problem detection, troubleshooting and resolution for Windows components
echo.
sc config "DPS" start= disabled
echo.
echo Not sure why access is deniend. ignore if no error
echo.
sc config "SecurityHealthService" start= disabled
echo.
echo WMI performance adapter which collects information regarding performance
echo.
sc config "wmiApSrv" start= disabled
echo.
echo application access to downloaded maps
echo.
sc config "MapsBroker" start= disabled
echo.
echo The service stores forwarded events in a local Event Log. If this service is stopped or disabled
echo event subscriptions cannot be created and forwarded events cannot be accepted.
echo.
sc config "Wecsvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo preloads and makes programs you use more often quick to access. Sucking more ram
echo.
sc config "SysMain" start= disabled
echo.
echo Optimizes performance of applications by caching commonly used font data
echo.
sc config "FontCache" start= disabled
sc config "FontCache3.0.0.0" start= disabled
echo.
echo Not much information
echo.
sc config "DoSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Hosts objects used by clients of the wallet
echo.
sc config "WalletService" start= disabled
echo.
echo viewing, sending and deletion of system-level problem reports for the Problem
echo Reports and Solutions control panel
echo.
sc config "wercplsupport" start= disabled
echo.
echo Indexes contact data for fast contact searching
echo.
sc config "PimIndexMaintenanceSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Internet Explorer. When running, this service collects real time ETW events and processes them
echo.
sc config "IEEtwCollectorService" start= disabled
echo.
echo Not enabled by default. Best to disable though
sc config "RetailDemo" start=disabled
echo.
echo enables data collection about functional issues in Windows components.
echo.
sc config "diagtrack" start=disabled
echo.
echo KeyLogger
echo.
sc config "dmwappushservice" start=disabled
echo.
echo Windows Media Player Sharing Service
echo.
sc config "WMPNetworkSvc" start= disabled
echo.
echo Delete xbox features, break xbox apps? (Y/N)
echo.
echo disable options inside app first
echo gamedvr will run even if app doesn't work
echo.
set /p web=Type option:
if "%web%"=="y" goto :d_xbox
if "%web%"=="n" goto :s_xbox
:d_xbox
sc config "NcdAutoSetup" start= disabled"
sc config "XblAuthManager" start= disabled"
sc config "XblGameSave" start= disabled"
sc config "XboxNetApiSvc" start= disabled"
goto home
:s_xbox
goto home

:ONEDRIVE
cls
echo.
echo Remove One Drive? (y/n)
echo.
set /p web=Type option:
if "%web%"=="y" goto :y_od
if "%web%"=="n" goto :n_od

:y_od
echo.
echo Uninstalling OneDrive
set x86="%SYSTEMROOT%\System32\OneDriveSetup.exe"
set x64="%SYSTEMROOT%\SysWOW64\OneDriveSetup.exe"
taskkill /f /im OneDrive.exe > NUL 2>&1
ping 127.0.0.1 -n 5 > NUL 2>&1
if exist %x64% (
%x64% /uninstall
) else (
%x86% /uninstall
)
ping 127.0.0.1 -n 8 > NUL 2>&1
rd "%USERPROFILE%\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
rd "C:\OneDriveTemp" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
rd "%LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
rd "%PROGRAMDATA%\Microsoft OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
echo.
echo Removeing OneDrive from the Explorer Side Panel.
REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Wow6432Node\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
goto home
:n_od
goto home

:METRO
cls
echo.
pause

goto home



2nd: Group policy Editor [run admin CMD.exe, type gpedit.exe)

Edit settings in Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates & User Configuration -> Administrative Templates.
Mostly disable functions I won't use or not usable on my hardware.



3rd: Run all my .reg/cmd tweaks



4th: Run Autoruns.

Disable unused drivers/startup. You have to reboot couple times to find every windows functions



5th: Disable devices not needed or through BIOS



Along with other system settings through the menus, page file


----------



## Avalar

Autoruns I have not used before. Gonna take forever to find all the ones I don't need. Sucks that disabling all C-States on this mobo lowers my CPU speed for some reason. Maybe I could OC the CPU even further, to something it couldn't normally achieve, like 4.2GHz.. Then disabling C-States will lower it to 3.99GHz and I'll still have a decent OC. ;0


----------



## softskiller

One thing that always feels better for me is to *disable memory fast boot* (or mrc fast boot) in the bios.

I do not mean the normal fast/ultra fast boot option but the one in the memory boot mode settings.

This way memory training is ensured where the memory controller synchronizes with the memory timings.

(It's not just the ancient memory failure checking)

By the way: c-states should not be disabled for idle cores when the CPU should use turbo clockings on the used cores.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> One thing that always feels better for me is to *disable memory fast boot* (or mrc fast boot) in the bios.
> 
> I do not mean the normal fast/ultra fast boot option but the one in the memory boot mode settings.
> 
> This way memory training is ensured where the memory controller synchronizes with the memory timings.
> 
> (It's not just the ancient memory failure checking)
> 
> By the way: c-states should not be disabled for idle cores when the CPU should use turbo clockings on the used cores.


what does it do? why we don't want it? the mrc boot and memory fast boot.


----------



## Avalar

The Fall Update is gonna ruin all my progress...


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> 1st: cmd file I wrote to disable services w/ xbox & onedrive
> 
> copy text and save as .bat or .cmd
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> @echo off
> echo Checking for Administrator elevation...
> echo.
> openfiles > NUL 2>&1
> if %errorlevel%==0 (
> echo Elevation found! Proceeding...
> ) else (
> echo You are not running as Administrator...
> echo This batch cannot do it's job without elevation!
> echo.
> echo Right-click and select ^'Run as Administrator^' and try again...
> echo.
> echo Press any key to exit...
> pause > NUL
> exit
> )
> 
> title Tested on Win 10 16232
> :home
> cls
> echo.
> echo Select:
> echo.
> echo 1. Unknownm's Services
> echo 2. Uninstall One Drive
> echo 3. N/A
> 
> echo.
> 
> set /p web=Type option:
> if "%web%"=="1" goto :TWEAK
> if "%web%"=="2" goto :ONEDRIVE
> if "%web%"=="3" goto :METRO
> goto home
> 
> :TWEAK
> cls
> @echo off
> echo.
> echo Ready ?
> echo.
> echo (Hardware) (Network) (Windows)
> echo.
> pause
> 
> cls
> 
> echo.
> echo [Hardware]
> echo.
> echo executable file that manages the printing process
> echo.
> sc config "Spooler" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Might Error with newer Windows 10 builds
> echo opens custom printer dialog boxes and handles notifications from a remote print server or a printer
> echo.
> sc config "PrintNotify" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo telephony state on the device
> echo.
> sc config "PhoneSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Broadband GSM CDMA module adapters and connections
> echo.
> sc config "WwanSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo WiFi WPS Protocol
> echo.
> sc config "wcncsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo ability to capture, compare, manipulate, and store biometric data
> echo.
> sc config "WbioSrvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Touch screens
> echo.
> sc config "TabletInputService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Telephone
> echo.
> sc config "TapiSrv" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo user has logged on with a smart card and subsequently removes that smart card from the reader
> echo.
> sc config "SCPolicySvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Radio Management and Airplane Mode Service
> echo.
> sc config "RmSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Infrared monitor service
> echo.
> sc config "irmon" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Disabling Hibnation file
> echo.
> powercfg -h off
> echo.
> echo NOTES:
> echo disable App-V through powershell
> echo //Disable-Appv (without //)
> echo.
> pause
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo [NETWORK]
> echo.
> echo server to share file and print resources with clients
> echo.
> sc config "LanmanServer" start= disabled
> sc config "LanmanWorkstation" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo networking tasks associated with configuration and maintenance of homegroups
> echo.
> sc config "HomeGroupProvider" start= disabled
> sc config "HomeGroupListener" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo HomeGroups and IPv6 transition technologies rely on iphlpsvc
> echo.
> sc config "iphlpsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo NetBIOS over TCP/IP is a networking protocol that allows legacy computer applications
> echo relying on the NetBIOS API to be used on modern TCP/IP networks.
> echo.
> sc config "lmhosts" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo The Distributed Link Tracking Client is responsible for tracking links to files saved on a file server
> echo.
> sc config "TrkWks" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Data Usage Subscription
> echo.
> sc config "DusmSvc" start= Disabled
> echo.
> echo Not using a Proxy?
> echo.
> sc config "WinHttpAutoProxySvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Remote Desktop Services
> echo.
> sc config "TermService" start= disabled
> sc config "UmRdpService" start= disabled
> sc config "SessionEnv" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo P2P
> echo decentralized platform whereby two individuals interact directly with each other, without intermediation
> echo by a third-party, or without the use of a company of business selling a product or service.
> echo.
> sc config "p2psvc" start= disabled
> sc config "p2pimsvc" start= disabled
> sc config "PNRPsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo ability to share TCP ports over the net.tcp protocol
> echo.
> sc config "NetTcpPortSharing" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Routes messages based on rules to appropriate clients
> echo.
> sc config "SmsRouter" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Host service for the Microsoft Storage Spaces management provider
> echo.
> sc config "smphost" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Internet SCSI sessions from your computer to remote iSCSI target devices
> echo.
> sc config "MSiSCSI" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Share cellular data with another device
> echo.
> sc config "icssvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Enables multiple clients to access video frames from camera devices
> echo.
> sc config "FrameServer" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo keeps files synced with between two computers across a network
> echo.
> sc config "CscService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo processes WSMan requests received over the network
> echo.
> sc config "WinRM" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Receives trap messages generated by local or remote SNMP agents
> echo and forwards the messages to SNMP management programs running on this computer.
> echo.
> sc config "SNMPTRAP" start= disabled
> echo.
> pause
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo [Windows]
> echo.
> echo Error Reporting Service
> echo.
> sc config "WerSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Security Center Warns about disabled
> echo.
> sc config "wscsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo monitors the current location of the system and manages geofences
> echo.
> sc config "lfsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Provides content indexing, property caching, and search results for files, e-mail, and other content.
> echo.
> sc config "WSearch" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo monitors programs that are being installed for compatibility problems and helps fix any it finds.
> echo.
> sc config "PcaSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo enables problem detection, troubleshooting and resolution for Windows components
> echo.
> sc config "DPS" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Not sure why access is deniend. ignore if no error
> echo.
> sc config "SecurityHealthService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo WMI performance adapter which collects information regarding performance
> echo.
> sc config "wmiApSrv" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo application access to downloaded maps
> echo.
> sc config "MapsBroker" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo The service stores forwarded events in a local Event Log. If this service is stopped or disabled
> echo event subscriptions cannot be created and forwarded events cannot be accepted.
> echo.
> sc config "Wecsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo preloads and makes programs you use more often quick to access. Sucking more ram
> echo.
> sc config "SysMain" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Optimizes performance of applications by caching commonly used font data
> echo.
> sc config "FontCache" start= disabled
> sc config "FontCache3.0.0.0" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Not much information
> echo.
> sc config "DoSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Hosts objects used by clients of the wallet
> echo.
> sc config "WalletService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo viewing, sending and deletion of system-level problem reports for the Problem
> echo Reports and Solutions control panel
> echo.
> sc config "wercplsupport" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Indexes contact data for fast contact searching
> echo.
> sc config "PimIndexMaintenanceSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Internet Explorer. When running, this service collects real time ETW events and processes them
> echo.
> sc config "IEEtwCollectorService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Not enabled by default. Best to disable though
> sc config "RetailDemo" start=disabled
> echo.
> echo enables data collection about functional issues in Windows components.
> echo.
> sc config "diagtrack" start=disabled
> echo.
> echo KeyLogger
> echo.
> sc config "dmwappushservice" start=disabled
> echo.
> echo Windows Media Player Sharing Service
> echo.
> sc config "WMPNetworkSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Delete xbox features, break xbox apps? (Y/N)
> echo.
> echo disable options inside app first
> echo gamedvr will run even if app doesn't work
> echo.
> set /p web=Type option:
> if "%web%"=="y" goto :d_xbox
> if "%web%"=="n" goto :s_xbox
> :d_xbox
> sc config "NcdAutoSetup" start= disabled"
> sc config "XblAuthManager" start= disabled"
> sc config "XblGameSave" start= disabled"
> sc config "XboxNetApiSvc" start= disabled"
> goto home
> :s_xbox
> goto home
> 
> :ONEDRIVE
> cls
> echo.
> echo Remove One Drive? (y/n)
> echo.
> set /p web=Type option:
> if "%web%"=="y" goto :y_od
> if "%web%"=="n" goto :n_od
> 
> :y_od
> echo.
> echo Uninstalling OneDrive
> set x86="%SYSTEMROOT%\System32\OneDriveSetup.exe"
> set x64="%SYSTEMROOT%\SysWOW64\OneDriveSetup.exe"
> taskkill /f /im OneDrive.exe > NUL 2>&1
> ping 127.0.0.1 -n 5 > NUL 2>&1
> if exist %x64% (
> %x64% /uninstall
> ) else (
> %x86% /uninstall
> )
> ping 127.0.0.1 -n 8 > NUL 2>&1
> rd "%USERPROFILE%\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> rd "C:\OneDriveTemp" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> rd "%LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> rd "%PROGRAMDATA%\Microsoft OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> echo.
> echo Removeing OneDrive from the Explorer Side Panel.
> REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
> REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Wow6432Node\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
> goto home
> :n_od
> goto home
> 
> :METRO
> cls
> echo.
> pause
> 
> goto home
> 
> 
> 
> 2nd: Group policy Editor [run admin CMD.exe, type gpedit.exe)
> 
> Edit settings in Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates & User Configuration -> Administrative Templates.
> Mostly disable functions I won't use or not usable on my hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> 3rd: Run all my .reg/cmd tweaks
> 
> 
> 
> 4th: Run Autoruns.
> 
> Disable unused drivers/startup. You have to reboot couple times to find every windows functions
> 
> 
> 
> 5th: Disable devices not needed or through BIOS
> 
> 
> 
> Along with other system settings through the menus, page file


Where is the link of tweaks


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> 1st: cmd file I wrote to disable services w/ xbox & onedrive
> 
> copy text and save as .bat or .cmd
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> @echo off
> echo Checking for Administrator elevation...
> echo.
> openfiles > NUL 2>&1
> if %errorlevel%==0 (
> echo Elevation found! Proceeding...
> ) else (
> echo You are not running as Administrator...
> echo This batch cannot do it's job without elevation!
> echo.
> echo Right-click and select ^'Run as Administrator^' and try again...
> echo.
> echo Press any key to exit...
> pause > NUL
> exit
> )
> 
> title Tested on Win 10 16232
> :home
> cls
> echo.
> echo Select:
> echo.
> echo 1. Unknownm's Services
> echo 2. Uninstall One Drive
> echo 3. N/A
> 
> echo.
> 
> set /p web=Type option:
> if "%web%"=="1" goto :TWEAK
> if "%web%"=="2" goto :ONEDRIVE
> if "%web%"=="3" goto :METRO
> goto home
> 
> :TWEAK
> cls
> @echo off
> echo.
> echo Ready ?
> echo.
> echo (Hardware) (Network) (Windows)
> echo.
> pause
> 
> cls
> 
> echo.
> echo [Hardware]
> echo.
> echo executable file that manages the printing process
> echo.
> sc config "Spooler" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Might Error with newer Windows 10 builds
> echo opens custom printer dialog boxes and handles notifications from a remote print server or a printer
> echo.
> sc config "PrintNotify" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo telephony state on the device
> echo.
> sc config "PhoneSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Broadband GSM CDMA module adapters and connections
> echo.
> sc config "WwanSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo WiFi WPS Protocol
> echo.
> sc config "wcncsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo ability to capture, compare, manipulate, and store biometric data
> echo.
> sc config "WbioSrvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Touch screens
> echo.
> sc config "TabletInputService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Telephone
> echo.
> sc config "TapiSrv" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo user has logged on with a smart card and subsequently removes that smart card from the reader
> echo.
> sc config "SCPolicySvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Radio Management and Airplane Mode Service
> echo.
> sc config "RmSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Infrared monitor service
> echo.
> sc config "irmon" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Disabling Hibnation file
> echo.
> powercfg -h off
> echo.
> echo NOTES:
> echo disable App-V through powershell
> echo //Disable-Appv (without //)
> echo.
> pause
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo [NETWORK]
> echo.
> echo server to share file and print resources with clients
> echo.
> sc config "LanmanServer" start= disabled
> sc config "LanmanWorkstation" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo networking tasks associated with configuration and maintenance of homegroups
> echo.
> sc config "HomeGroupProvider" start= disabled
> sc config "HomeGroupListener" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo HomeGroups and IPv6 transition technologies rely on iphlpsvc
> echo.
> sc config "iphlpsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo NetBIOS over TCP/IP is a networking protocol that allows legacy computer applications
> echo relying on the NetBIOS API to be used on modern TCP/IP networks.
> echo.
> sc config "lmhosts" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo The Distributed Link Tracking Client is responsible for tracking links to files saved on a file server
> echo.
> sc config "TrkWks" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Data Usage Subscription
> echo.
> sc config "DusmSvc" start= Disabled
> echo.
> echo Not using a Proxy?
> echo.
> sc config "WinHttpAutoProxySvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Remote Desktop Services
> echo.
> sc config "TermService" start= disabled
> sc config "UmRdpService" start= disabled
> sc config "SessionEnv" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo P2P
> echo decentralized platform whereby two individuals interact directly with each other, without intermediation
> echo by a third-party, or without the use of a company of business selling a product or service.
> echo.
> sc config "p2psvc" start= disabled
> sc config "p2pimsvc" start= disabled
> sc config "PNRPsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo ability to share TCP ports over the net.tcp protocol
> echo.
> sc config "NetTcpPortSharing" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Routes messages based on rules to appropriate clients
> echo.
> sc config "SmsRouter" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Host service for the Microsoft Storage Spaces management provider
> echo.
> sc config "smphost" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Internet SCSI sessions from your computer to remote iSCSI target devices
> echo.
> sc config "MSiSCSI" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Share cellular data with another device
> echo.
> sc config "icssvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Enables multiple clients to access video frames from camera devices
> echo.
> sc config "FrameServer" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo keeps files synced with between two computers across a network
> echo.
> sc config "CscService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo processes WSMan requests received over the network
> echo.
> sc config "WinRM" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Receives trap messages generated by local or remote SNMP agents
> echo and forwards the messages to SNMP management programs running on this computer.
> echo.
> sc config "SNMPTRAP" start= disabled
> echo.
> pause
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo.
> echo [Windows]
> echo.
> echo Error Reporting Service
> echo.
> sc config "WerSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Security Center Warns about disabled
> echo.
> sc config "wscsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo monitors the current location of the system and manages geofences
> echo.
> sc config "lfsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Provides content indexing, property caching, and search results for files, e-mail, and other content.
> echo.
> sc config "WSearch" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo monitors programs that are being installed for compatibility problems and helps fix any it finds.
> echo.
> sc config "PcaSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo enables problem detection, troubleshooting and resolution for Windows components
> echo.
> sc config "DPS" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Not sure why access is deniend. ignore if no error
> echo.
> sc config "SecurityHealthService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo WMI performance adapter which collects information regarding performance
> echo.
> sc config "wmiApSrv" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo application access to downloaded maps
> echo.
> sc config "MapsBroker" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo The service stores forwarded events in a local Event Log. If this service is stopped or disabled
> echo event subscriptions cannot be created and forwarded events cannot be accepted.
> echo.
> sc config "Wecsvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo preloads and makes programs you use more often quick to access. Sucking more ram
> echo.
> sc config "SysMain" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Optimizes performance of applications by caching commonly used font data
> echo.
> sc config "FontCache" start= disabled
> sc config "FontCache3.0.0.0" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Not much information
> echo.
> sc config "DoSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Hosts objects used by clients of the wallet
> echo.
> sc config "WalletService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo viewing, sending and deletion of system-level problem reports for the Problem
> echo Reports and Solutions control panel
> echo.
> sc config "wercplsupport" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Indexes contact data for fast contact searching
> echo.
> sc config "PimIndexMaintenanceSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Internet Explorer. When running, this service collects real time ETW events and processes them
> echo.
> sc config "IEEtwCollectorService" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Not enabled by default. Best to disable though
> sc config "RetailDemo" start=disabled
> echo.
> echo enables data collection about functional issues in Windows components.
> echo.
> sc config "diagtrack" start=disabled
> echo.
> echo KeyLogger
> echo.
> sc config "dmwappushservice" start=disabled
> echo.
> echo Windows Media Player Sharing Service
> echo.
> sc config "WMPNetworkSvc" start= disabled
> echo.
> echo Delete xbox features, break xbox apps? (Y/N)
> echo.
> echo disable options inside app first
> echo gamedvr will run even if app doesn't work
> echo.
> set /p web=Type option:
> if "%web%"=="y" goto :d_xbox
> if "%web%"=="n" goto :s_xbox
> :d_xbox
> sc config "NcdAutoSetup" start= disabled"
> sc config "XblAuthManager" start= disabled"
> sc config "XblGameSave" start= disabled"
> sc config "XboxNetApiSvc" start= disabled"
> goto home
> :s_xbox
> goto home
> 
> :ONEDRIVE
> cls
> echo.
> echo Remove One Drive? (y/n)
> echo.
> set /p web=Type option:
> if "%web%"=="y" goto :y_od
> if "%web%"=="n" goto :n_od
> 
> :y_od
> echo.
> echo Uninstalling OneDrive
> set x86="%SYSTEMROOT%\System32\OneDriveSetup.exe"
> set x64="%SYSTEMROOT%\SysWOW64\OneDriveSetup.exe"
> taskkill /f /im OneDrive.exe > NUL 2>&1
> ping 127.0.0.1 -n 5 > NUL 2>&1
> if exist %x64% (
> %x64% /uninstall
> ) else (
> %x86% /uninstall
> )
> ping 127.0.0.1 -n 8 > NUL 2>&1
> rd "%USERPROFILE%\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> rd "C:\OneDriveTemp" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> rd "%LOCALAPPDATA%\Microsoft\OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> rd "%PROGRAMDATA%\Microsoft OneDrive" /Q /S > NUL 2>&1
> echo.
> echo Removeing OneDrive from the Explorer Side Panel.
> REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
> REG DELETE "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Wow6432Node\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" /f > NUL 2>&1
> goto home
> :n_od
> goto home
> 
> :METRO
> cls
> echo.
> pause
> 
> goto home
> 
> 
> 
> 2nd: Group policy Editor [run admin CMD.exe, type gpedit.exe)
> 
> Edit settings in Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates & User Configuration -> Administrative Templates.
> Mostly disable functions I won't use or not usable on my hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> 3rd: Run all my .reg/cmd tweaks
> 
> 
> 
> 4th: Run Autoruns.
> 
> Disable unused drivers/startup. You have to reboot couple times to find every windows functions
> 
> 
> 
> 5th: Disable devices not needed or through BIOS
> 
> 
> 
> Along with other system settings through the menus, page file
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the link of tweaks
Click to expand...

Not taking any credit for the tweaks I'm just the delivery driver. Some reg tweaks are from OCN posts and duckduckgo searches but I'll uploaded it on OCN

TWEAKS.zip 2326k .zip file


EDIT: Not all tweaks are uploaded , wanted to keep the attachment small


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Recommending people to use Group Policy Editor and Autoruns without better instructions is really bad advice. People are going to screw up their systems.

Also the Autoruns "tweaks" that you've pictured are completely pointless, but feel free to do them if it makes you sleep better.


----------



## Offler

Subbed.

Will test the methods mentioned here - expecially the keyboard (even when it does not make much sense).

I am currently investigating probable causes of stuttering of one game, will tell if there is relation.


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Recommending people to use Group Policy Editor and Autoruns without better instructions is really bad advice. People are going to screw up their systems.
> 
> Also the Autoruns "tweaks" that you've pictured are completely pointless, but feel free to do them if it makes you sleep better.


lol it's called google or duckduckgo whatever you use to search

it doesn't make me sleep better don't know why you would assume this? anyways use with caution


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Because you are presenting your tweaks like a self-contained guide, you need to caution people when recommending such powerful tools or provide them with more instructions. The average user doesn't have your level of understanding and might think they can just try a guess and check method, which will have horrible results. Trust me, this has happened many times on this forum.

And I didn't mean Autoruns is completely pointless. I meant that the particular "tweaks" you pictured were. But I'm going to revise that to mostly pointless now--as in, not worth the time and effort.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*


Thank you so much , i wish you upload all Tweak on Dropbox but you did will


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> If you have Windows 10 1709 , make sure you don't have something called HEVC Video Extension . it crap out the SSD and CPU USAGE non stop if you have videos on some folders .
> 
> Uninstall it !
> 
> it fixed my DPC Latency I had issued with.
> 
> Also you need to have DRIVERS for everything !! even if it's DISABLED Device , install the drivers for it. I didn't install the drivers for my Asus STRIX RAID DLX and I had always some bad jumps 150 + and didn't reach perfectly 0-15 , and it stayed usually 50-90 all the times . it had just the MIcrosoft drivers and it even was DISABLED ! . after installing the driver even with the device ENABLED ! I had better latency and also DISABLED was the same !
> 
> I mean I couldn't believe that even DISABLED device can cause issues when the drivers are not installed. it must add some registries or some better advanced support for some OS that causes it to read/write better and have lower latency I/O Queues.
> 
> I can watch Video / Play games or hear Music and the latency stays always the same ! before it was jumping all the times to 100+ and go down. never over 500 , but still .
> 
> I just have some random 120-150 jumps, but they are very random, something just must happened that causing it.
> 
> The nvidia jumps always happening because of power saving of nvidia. but it doesn't effect anything. also the nvidia is going up when my TV turned off and turned on because it does something behind. anyway it doesn't affect anything because it happens once because of nvidia clock that ramps up.


After reading this i recalled i have one of the hardest Latency benchmark possible.

I have at home one very old 8bit computer which originally used cassetes - it was Sharp MZ-800. About 10 years ago I decided to re-master and restore as much old software i had for this system, so it included one walkman Aiwa (provided best load successes on originial system).

I googled a bit to find some software which was not available at the time when I was using that old computer to find a copy program. Most of those seemed to continue load data, even when there was error on tape, this one was much better - stopped loading data immediatelly when checksum failed.

So i connected Audio output to the pin of this computer, played wave/mp3 file containing program in audio format. Standard recording speed was 1200 baud (bits per seconds). If anything on the system happened and caused latency problem, the program recording stopped. It would not be possible to hear it, but Mz-800 with copying program was sensitive enough to detect it and report the error as the loading failed...

The system where I was restoring the programs (and later burned them on CDs in Audio format) was Pentium III with Windows98SE so... there was not too many things going on, and it was relatively easy to work with audio without being interrupted. I wonder how would perform modern systems in this regard.


----------



## zwacki

Is there an updated version of this post to optimize windows in its recent iteration? Or a list of proven usefull things to do ?


----------



## Offler

Guide itself its quite well written (not sure about last update), and can be applied globally. Only problem is that DPC Latency tool does work only up to Windows 7.

In general "disable everything you dont need" or "uninstall unnecessary apps".


----------



## zwacki

well, i have "disable everything you dont need" and "uninstall unnecessary apps" i was more talking about either specific bios settings for newer boards and/or settings for windows 10 1709


----------



## x7007

does anyone here has gigabyte x399 aura 7 gaming and has issue with CSM Support Enabled, I keep it disabled but randomly after restarts or when restarting? it happens to me when restarting or shutting down. I don't know what causing it.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zwacki*
> 
> well, i have "disable everything you dont need" and "uninstall unnecessary apps" i was more talking about either specific bios settings for newer boards and/or settings for windows 10 1709


I want someone more knowledgeable than I to include some AMD BIOS configurations and stuff like that. Disabling all C-States is usually good thing, for example, but on my Ryzen system, it actually lowers my overclock.


----------



## hylight

can someone recommend me a gpu driver because 388.xx feels sluggish (windows 10 / 770)


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hylight*
> 
> can someone recommend me a gpu driver because 388.xx feels sluggish (windows 10 / 770)


Yeah, uninstall it. Disable driver updates for that device, run DDU in Safe Mode, done.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hylight*
> 
> can someone recommend me a gpu driver because 388.xx feels sluggish (windows 10 / 770)


I recommend Hotfix 382.19 unless you need one of the bugfixes from the newer drivers (mainly this applies to 10-series). All 384.xx, 385.xx, 387.xx, and 388.xx versions experience a bad FPS hit in DX9 games. I have yet to test the latest two versions, 388.43 and 388.59, however.


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *hylight*
> 
> can someone recommend me a gpu driver because 388.xx feels sluggish (windows 10 / 770)
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend Hotfix 382.19 unless you need one of the bugfixes from the newer drivers (mainly this applies to 10-series). All 384.xx, 385.xx, 387.xx, and 388.xx versions experience a bad FPS hit in DX9 games. I have yet to test the latest two versions, 388.43 and 388.59, however.
Click to expand...

I wonder if installing 384/385/387/388.xx with bare minimum increases DX9. Removing the bloatware in Nvidia drivers and just installing basics (7-zip extract, delete files, run exe). Been doing this since nvidia 382

User posted it on a thread and it's been saved on my Backup HDD for while now.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

I always do a full manual uninstall and minimal clean install of GeForce drivers and it makes no difference as to the DX9 performance. I haven't been able to verify if it is limited to 900-series cards.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> I wonder if installing 384/385/387/388.xx with bare minimum increases DX9.


No, it doesn't.


----------



## vf-

Hmm, I was curious reading the X/Y curve...

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tech-support/157790-mouse-registry

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1945096

I keep coming across old topics.


----------



## KulaGGin

Windows 10 forces triple buffering with DWM. True fullscreen mode overrides DWM settings, but in borderless you always play with Vsync On when DWM is active.

I'll just drop it here, probably common knowledge, but I'm sure someone is still playing in borderless:


Complete results with details:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wO7rtgxWg2WF45EK-FnfMMxuVlQ_ksVflXaoU0g_5KY/edit#gid=1189880250

I used DIY tester based on Arduino and *photoresistor LM393*.

TLDR: Don't play in borderless.


----------



## Timecard

So is windows 8/8.1 the best as the ****ty win 10 FCU update that bugs m_rawinput 0?


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> Windows 10 forces triple buffering with DWM. True fullscreen mode overrides, but in borderless you still always play with Vsync On when DWM is active.
> 
> I'll just drop it here, probably common knowledge, but I'm sure someone is still playing in borderless:
> 
> 
> Complete results with details:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wO7rtgxWg2WF45EK-FnfMMxuVlQ_ksVflXaoU0g_5KY/edit#gid=1189880250
> 
> I used DIY tester based on Arduino and *photoresistor LM393*.


If there is triple buffering present + Vsync, its quite good scenario.

Anyway the results in the list dont make much sense, as refresh rate 77hz equals 12.98ms for one cycle. The results however indicate that there might be present stuttering (one frame presented twice as long) which occurs in cases when game does not run on 77fps constantly.


----------



## Unknownm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> Windows 10 forces triple buffering with DWM. True fullscreen mode overrides, but in borderless you still always play with Vsync On when DWM is active.
> 
> I'll just drop it here, probably common knowledge, but I'm sure someone is still playing in borderless:
> 
> 
> Complete results with details:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wO7rtgxWg2WF45EK-FnfMMxuVlQ_ksVflXaoU0g_5KY/edit#gid=1189880250
> 
> I used DIY tester based on Arduino and *photoresistor LM393*.
> 
> 
> 
> If there is triple buffering present + Vsync, its quite good scenario.
> 
> Anyway the results in the list dont make much sense, as refresh rate 77hz equals 12.98ms for one cycle. The results however indicate that there might be present stuttering (one frame presented twice as long) which occurs in cases when game does not run on 77fps constantly.
Click to expand...

I play boarderless mode because cs go doesn't see my custom fresh rate (apply freshrate at desktop, run game boarderless) with no framerate cap in game (300-500fps)

The only way I've seen DWM disabled is a app that runs in the background that forces new windows to run 2d mode. It breaks SETTINGS, STORE, NETWORK SETTINGS, and sometimes causes the start menu to not work.

These can easily be fixed by a restart. However is it possible to force windows to run no vsync or triple buffer? What happens if you force vsync off in globe settings in Nvidia profile (default for all apps-games)

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> I play boarderless mode because cs go doesn't see my custom fresh rate (apply freshrate at desktop, run game boarderless) with no framerate cap in game (300-500fps)


Use Custom Resolution Utility. Remove all 60Hz options of resolution you want to use. Then add new resolution at overclocked refresh rate.

If your default res is [email protected], for example, then you want to delete 1920x1080 @60Hz options from Detailed Resolution and from Standard Resolutions:


Then add resolution in Detailed resolutions and set refresh rate and settings you want:


I ran into this problem myself few years ago and that's exactly the only reason why I use CRU.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> The only way I've seen DWM disabled is a app that runs in the background that forces new windows to run 2d mode. It breaks SETTINGS, STORE, NETWORK SETTINGS, and sometimes causes the start menu to not work.


Yes, that's why you want to play fullscreen only.


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> If there is triple buffering present + Vsync, its quite good scenario.


It isn't a good scenario in any competitive reaction game, let it be CSGO, Overwatch or any other. That 12ms difference is a huge difference, especially when you bunch it up with all other tweaks in this and other threads.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Anyway the results in the list dont make much sense, as refresh rate 77hz equals 12.98ms for one cycle.


With all due respect, universe and everything in it is under no obligation to make sense to you. When it works like that, it will work like that and be true either it makes sense to you or not, and either you believe in it or not.

Also, results do make sense. I didn't take one sample. I took 1000+ samples with each setting, 5000+ samples in total. Delays between tests was also randomized between 100 and 300ms.

That ~12ms difference in tests between fullscreen(overriding DWM tripple buffering setting) and borderless(with triple buffering) make perfect sense at 77 Hz.
That's exactly that time 12ms which it takes to fully refresh LCD +-~1 ms error. Before I was making these tests, that was about the number I expected to get - about time of one full refresh of LCD, that's your VSync at work.
I understand that error of one single sample can be +-12.98ms. But if you take 1000+ samples, it negates that error.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> The results however indicate that there might be present stuttering (one frame presented twice as long) which occurs in cases when game does not run on 77fps constantly.


Well, I didn't measure frame times. I measured motion to photon latency. AFAIK these additional spikes to 30ms+ could be caused by anything, like, some laggy driver of USB Controller.

I should've taken tasts using CRT monitor, precision would be better.


----------



## Unknownm

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KulaGGin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> I play boarderless mode because cs go doesn't see my custom fresh rate (apply freshrate at desktop, run game boarderless) with no framerate cap in game (300-500fps)
> 
> 
> 
> Use Custom Resolution Utility. Remove all 60Hz options of resolution you want to use. Then add new resolution at overclocked refresh rate.
> 
> If your default res is [email protected], for example, then you want to delete 1920x1080 @60Hz options from Detailed Resolution and from Standard Resolutions:
> 
> 
> Then add resolution in Detailed resolutions and set refresh rate and settings you want:
> 
> 
> I ran into this problem myself few years ago and that's exactly the only reason why I use CRU.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Unknownm*
> 
> The only way I've seen DWM disabled is a app that runs in the background that forces new windows to run 2d mode. It breaks SETTINGS, STORE, NETWORK SETTINGS, and sometimes causes the start menu to not work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that's why you want to play fullscreen only.
Click to expand...





Thanks, instead of deleting default 60hz I just add new resolution with custom hz. I always used boarderless mode so it's easier to access the desktop but now I try 3200x1800 @ 75hz fullscreen as it seems to be a sweet spot (99% GPU usage) while 1080p = 40%


----------



## Offler

To KulaGGin:
You should put all your replies in exaclty opposite order and logic as well.

1. You said that 12ms is a huge difference.
Reaction time of a human is 150-250ms. 150ms or slightly less is for highly trained gamers.

2. You said that you made thousands of samples,
Thats fine, but if you made 1000 samples it does not negate bad measuring method.

3. You admitted that measuring method is based on USB.
Since USB is CPU dependant you have absolutely no idea what you did measured. You could as well measured CPU load.

If you want to make excelsheet you created you have to be absolutely sure about following input data:

a) FPS
it HAS to be exactly 77FPS

b) Display Refresh rate
It HAS to be exactly 77hz.

in such situaiton you can be sure that 3d engine and computer is able to swap front and backbuffer images at expected pace.

If those input data are NOT like above, whole measuring will NOT tell you any diference between Vsync + triple buffer and unsynced image. You will get only info that your PC is not able to deliver FPS at expected refresh rate.


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> 1. You said that 12ms is a huge difference.
> Reaction time of a human is 150-250ms. 150ms or slightly less is for highly trained gamers.


Right. But there's also this: what is motion to photon latency.
Aiming with 50ms latency will be so much worse than with 5ms latency, because at 50ms latency there will be no feeling of presence. That's why 50FPS is so bad compared to 400. At 50FPS there's only 20ms of additional input lag and at 200 FPS there's only 5ms additional lag. Difference is only 15ms. You don't see pros playing at 50 FPS, right? Any good player will tell you that 50 FPS feels very bad compared to 200.
Take a game at 200 FPS, artificially add 15ms of motion to photon latency and you will get almost the same bad feeling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> 3. You admitted that measuring method is based on USB.
> Since USB is CPU dependant you have absolutely no idea what you did measured. You could as well measured CPU load.


I know exactly what I measured. I measured motion to photon latencies on my PC and difference in these latencies between 2 different options: DWM On and DWM Off.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> If you want to make excelsheet you created you have to be absolutely sure about following input data:
> a) FPS
> it HAS to be exactly 77FPS
> 
> b) Display Refresh rate
> It HAS to be exactly 77hz.
> 
> in such situaiton you can be sure that 3d engine and computer is able to swap front and backbuffer images at expected pace.
> 
> If those input data are NOT like above, whole measuring will NOT tell you any diference between Vsync + triple buffer and unsynced image. You will get only info that your PC is not able to deliver FPS at expected refresh rate.


Well, I've done another test on humanbenchmark.com, which is a little different test to what I did before, but here are the results:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




https://i.imgur.com/w0Mf1FM.png
https://i.imgur.com/hVZuDFW.png
https://i.imgur.com/7IpQ1XM.png
https://i.imgur.com/OG8sqnP.png



If all of these results don't convince you that VSync is present in borderless and that it does affect motion to photon latency in a very bad way, nothing will.

I posted these results not for deniers but for people who want to decrease their input lag and know how to evaluate results from tests. I personally couldn't find on the internet this particular test(DWM Off vs On), so I've done one myself.

A lot of people play in borderless and are convinced that it does not increase motion to photon latency, which in fact it does, as shown in the results above.


----------



## Offler

According data , you definitely measured stutter which occurs in Vsync+Triple buffering scenario, when FPS runs below display refresh rate. Sorry.

Its perfecltly clear from alternating high and low values, however because those are not 12.98ms increments, but rather random ones, its clear the input data (render) is not delivering data to display in constant rate.


----------



## KulaGGin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> According data , you definitely measured stutter which occurs in Vsync+Triple buffering scenario, when FPS runs below display refresh rate. Sorry.


Well, feel free to make your own tests and show us. But before that it's just a bunch of fancy words supported with 0 evidence.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Don't decrease power limit in msi afterburner it will increase your input lag

I test that on overwatch and sim increase when I decreases power limit


----------



## Scorpion667

Hi Guys, long time lurker.

I want to run my setup by you as I'm having constant spikes from 5-6ns to 38/40/58/100ns back and forth on a highly tweaked, optimized and scrubbed system.

-windows 8.1 manually scrubbed down to about 16GB disk utilization and tweaked config - specs in sig
-all bios power saving/C-states off, locked voltage and clockspeed, MANUAL voltage and locked multiplier, all MOSFET settings set to manual/extreme
-hyperthreading disabled
-HPET off in BIOS, I believe the bcdedit tweak to disable it in OS has been done as well
-all onboard devices disabled in BIOS except USB3 (audio = PCIe soundcard, LAN = PCIe Intel CT NIC)
-all windows features disabled except .Net, remote differential compression and SMB 1.0
-highly tweaked services config, very little set to automatic, most set to manual/disabled:


-NOTHING is running at startup except realtemp (via task scheduler)
-seems to be Nvidia driver related so I extracted nvidia installer and scrubbed all but bare minimum gfx driver ONLY (no physX), booted to safe mode, DDU, reboot in to regular mode and installed the scrubbed nvidia driver (388.71)
-Nvidia services set to disabled
-sound crap from nvidia/hdmi disabled in device man
-I left a lot of devices on default drivers and for NIC I even had to find an older driver before Intel introduced higher DPC latency... spent lots of time comparing drivers for best DPC latency
-below screenshot will show there are very little processes running and the idle core utilization is quite chill. I can't figure this out brahs and already spent 5+ hours trying to address this... should I just reimage to Windows 7 and call it a day? On the same hardware config I had consistent single digit DPC latency at idle with Windows 7


http://imgur.com/HH6TTNA


LatencyMon stats:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:23:06 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: UDOVOODOO
OS version: Windows 8.1 , 6.3, build: 9600 (x64)
Hardware: ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., RAMPAGE IV EXTREME
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3930K CPU @ 3.20GHz
Logical processors: 6
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 16331 MB total

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 320 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 1 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 181.587325
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 5.861472

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 179.073039
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 2.729501

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 144.91750
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.077709
Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.083217

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 367483
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 367.378125
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 388.71 , NVIDIA Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.105989
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: rspLLL64.sys - Resplendence Latency Monitoring and Auxiliary Kernel Library, Resplendence Software Projects Sp.

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.194390

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 5135070
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 7
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: chrome.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 1490
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 411
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 8393.198750
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0.003488
Number of processes hit: 15

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 13.943069
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 0 ISR count: 0
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 73.630
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 8.974667
CPU 0 DPC count: 3499021
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 4.178862
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 111.159375
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0.082670
CPU 1 DPC count: 104287
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 5.276853
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 124.185625
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0.081491
CPU 2 DPC count: 141376
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 3.547234
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 9.716875
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.005928
CPU 3 ISR count: 1352
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 60.265625
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0.067519
CPU 3 DPC count: 119993
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 7.176885
CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0
CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0
CPU 4 ISR count: 0
CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 66.668750
CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 0.104822
CPU 4 DPC count: 161035
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 20.056960
CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 144.91750
CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 6.916077
CPU 5 ISR count: 366131
CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 367.378125
CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 6.858162
CPU 5 DPC count: 1109365
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________



LatencyMon driver stats:


http://imgur.com/ySYbMqH


----------



## jtl999

I thought of you people when I read this.

I think a more fair comparison would be adding some Pentium3/4 era systems as well, both with old (98, XP) and modern OS's.

https://danluu.com/input-lag/


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I want to run my setup by you as I'm having constant spikes from 5-6ns to 38/40/58/100ns back and forth on a highly tweaked, optimized and scrubbed system.


Surely you mean μs (microsecond, 10^-6) and not ns (nanosecond, 10^-9). I'm going to assume so for this next part.

From my experience and everything I've ever heard from other people, NVIDIA will always spike up like that unless you not only do the NVIDIA driver/service tweaks you mentioned later, but you also need a custom BIOS to disable Boost and lock it into the P0 power state. These modded BIOS have to be done in a very specific way so not as to leave the card constantly reporting a PerfCap Reason at idle or under load, and the vast majority of modded BIOS I've seen don't do this correctly. Successive generations of NVIDIA architectures made considerable improvements in LatencyMon performance. From my personal ownership, it's something like this: 980 Ti > 780 Ti ≈ 780 >> 680 > 570. However, every indication I've seen from Pascal is that it has been a step backwards in terms of ultimate achievable latency performance. I suspect this is largely due to the face that you can mod the Pascal BIOS the same way we've been able to mod Maxwell, Kepler, etc.

But once you have done all these things, on Windows 7 at least, the spikes from NVIDIA driver are reduced to <25ms. Without the BIOS mod, the spikes were closer to 50ms with everything else being the same. Fermi cards frequently spike well over 100ms. I'm not sure what best case scenario for Pascal is with being able to do BIOS mods, but I would guess around 50ms on Windows 7, possibly about that for 8.1, and significantly higher for 10.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> -HPET off in BIOS, I believe the bcdedit tweak to disable it in OS has been done as well


Just turn HPET on in BIOS and delete the bcdedit tweak. Can't be bothered to explain why again, search my posts in this thread if you want an explanation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> -below screenshot will show there are very little processes running and the idle core utilization is quite chill. I can't figure this out brahs and already spent 5+ hours trying to address this... should I just reimage to Windows 7 and call it a day? On the same hardware config I had consistent single digit DPC latency at idle with Windows 7
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 181.587325
> Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 5.861472
> 
> Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 179.073039
> Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 2.729501


In Windows 7, my average interrupt to process latency and DPC latency times are about 1/10 of yours. Also my highest latencies are about 1/6 of yours. So it does seem like something is up with your system. I don't know if it's Windows 8.1 or what. I've only ever used W7.


----------



## Nawafwabs

whats best tweak for windows 7 ?

please give me link if u can ..


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Surely you mean μs (microsecond, 10^-6) and not ns (nanosecond, 10^-9). I'm going to assume so for this next part.
> 
> From my experience and everything I've ever heard from other people, NVIDIA will always spike up like that unless you not only do the NVIDIA driver/service tweaks you mentioned later, but you also need a custom BIOS to disable Boost and lock it into the P0 power state. These modded BIOS have to be done in a very specific way so not as to leave the card constantly reporting a PerfCap Reason at idle or under load, and the vast majority of modded BIOS I've seen don't do this correctly. Successive generations of NVIDIA architectures made considerable improvements in LatencyMon performance. From my personal ownership, it's something like this: 980 Ti > 780 Ti ≈ 780 >> 680 > 570. However, every indication I've seen from Pascal is that it has been a step backwards in terms of ultimate achievable latency performance. I suspect this is largely due to the face that you can mod the Pascal BIOS the same way we've been able to mod Maxwell, Kepler, etc.
> 
> But once you have done all these things, on Windows 7 at least, the spikes from NVIDIA driver are reduced to <25ms. Without the BIOS mod, the spikes were closer to 50ms with everything else being the same. Fermi cards frequently spike well over 100ms. I'm not sure what best case scenario for Pascal is with being able to do BIOS mods, but I would guess around 50ms on Windows 7, possibly about that for 8.1, and significantly higher for 10.
> Just turn HPET on in BIOS and delete the bcdedit tweak. Can't be bothered to explain why again, search my posts in this thread if you want an explanation.
> In Windows 7, my average interrupt to process latency and DPC latency times are about 1/10 of yours. Also my highest latencies are about 1/6 of yours. So it does seem like something is up with your system. I don't know if it's Windows 8.1 or what. I've only ever used W7.


Thank you for the help.

I ended up reimaging to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64bit latest .iso, installed all windows updates and without any DPC tweaking (only SSD tweaks), no chipset drivers installed, all default windows 7 MS drivers, I idle at 3 to 5μs with zero jumps to double digit over 10 minutes. And this is with the latest Nvidia driver installed (albeit I scrubbed the installation beforehand). This is perfect, case closed!

[edit] oh and that's with Bitdefender Free AV running also...[/edit]


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VolsAndJezuz*
> 
> Surely you mean μs (microsecond, 10^-6) and not ns (nanosecond, 10^-9). I'm going to assume so for this next part.
> 
> From my experience and everything I've ever heard from other people, NVIDIA will always spike up like that unless you not only do the NVIDIA driver/service tweaks you mentioned later, but you also need a custom BIOS to disable Boost and lock it into the P0 power state. These modded BIOS have to be done in a very specific way so not as to leave the card constantly reporting a PerfCap Reason at idle or under load, and the vast majority of modded BIOS I've seen don't do this correctly. Successive generations of NVIDIA architectures made considerable improvements in LatencyMon performance. From my personal ownership, it's something like this: 980 Ti > 780 Ti ≈ 780 >> 680 > 570. However, every indication I've seen from Pascal is that it has been a step backwards in terms of ultimate achievable latency performance. I suspect this is largely due to the face that you can mod the Pascal BIOS the same way we've been able to mod Maxwell, Kepler, etc.
> 
> But once you have done all these things, on Windows 7 at least, the spikes from NVIDIA driver are reduced to <25ms. Without the BIOS mod, the spikes were closer to 50ms with everything else being the same. Fermi cards frequently spike well over 100ms. I'm not sure what best case scenario for Pascal is with being able to do BIOS mods, but I would guess around 50ms on Windows 7, possibly about that for 8.1, and significantly higher for 10.
> Just turn HPET on in BIOS and delete the bcdedit tweak. Can't be bothered to explain why again, search my posts in this thread if you want an explanation.
> In Windows 7, my average interrupt to process latency and DPC latency times are about 1/10 of yours. Also my highest latencies are about 1/6 of yours. So it does seem like something is up with your system. I don't know if it's Windows 8.1 or what. I've only ever used W7.


Could you explain again why to keep HPET on in the bios ? I tried to search but couldn't find.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Thank you for the help.
> 
> I ended up reimaging to Windows 7 Pro SP1 64bit latest .iso, installed all windows updates and without any DPC tweaking (only SSD tweaks), no chipset drivers installed, all default windows 7 MS drivers, I idle at 3 to 5μs with zero jumps to double digit over 10 minutes. And this is with the latest Nvidia driver installed (albeit I scrubbed the installation beforehand). This is perfect, case closed!
> 
> [edit] oh and that's with Bitdefender Free AV running also...[/edit]


Seems COD:WW2 is better optimized for Windows 8 and perhaps 10...

Before I reimaged my SSD to W7 I dumped my W8 install to a HDD I had lying around as a backup. Noticed on W7 optimized, running the same graphics settings in WW2 (and nvidia CP settings the same) resulted in stutter/fps drops. Lowering settings made the issue go away.

Booted off the HDD with W8 and same Nvidia driver (388.71) those higher settings are playable without stutters.

I find it very odd however I think someone in this thread mentioned having the same experience with Overwatch, in that it performed very poor on Windows 7. I guess I'll have to get my hands on a copy of Windows 10 to try... It's a shame, I really like Windows 7. 1TB 850 evo should arrive tomorrow so I guess I'll be able to try all 3 OS to compare in game performance and DPC.


----------



## CiselS

intel E3 1231 V3 ASUS GTX970 windows 10 64bit pro 1709

G1 sniper B6 144hz monitor (BenQ XL2430T)







sorry my english not good , i always get 500 μs +

many OS win 7 get really low

ex:

Will the problem is win10?


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CiselS*
> 
> intel E3 1231 V3 ASUS GTX970 windows 10 64bit pro 1709
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry my english not good , i always get 500 μs +
> 
> many OS win 7 really low
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will the problem is win10?


Change to Aero theme and move your mouse/drag some windows. Is latency still this low?


----------



## CiselS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whood*
> 
> Change to Aero theme and move your mouse/drag some windows. Is latency still this low?


yes, i set "adjust for best performance"

and setting bios and power options set "high performance"

i do anything get more fps


----------



## Offler

DPC latency checker DOES NOT work with Windows 8.0, 8.1 and 10.

Its because later was introduced "tickless kernel" in the system.


----------



## CiselS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> DPC latency checker DOES NOT work with Windows 8.0, 8.1 and 10.
> 
> Its because later was introduced "tickless kernel" in the system.


thank you for telling me


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CiselS*
> 
> yes, i set "adjust for best performance"
> 
> and setting bios and power options set "high performance"
> 
> i do anything get more fps


If you did enable Aero and latency was still low then i don't know what's the problem. I saw Nvidia and DirectX kernel reporting highest latency and thought it's because of Windows 10 using WDDM (more GPU usage and forced buffering) and Windows 7 basic theme using XDDM. That's why I asked you to test Aero theme.


----------



## Offler

I just tested LatencyMon.

Latency was around 30 microseconds, and was not going lower. Because I am bit old-fashioned and i still use PS2 keyboard and mouse, i noticed that USB driver is taking a lot of time. So i disabled the drivers (3 hubs, each with 4 ports) and latency dropped down a lot.

Most of time reported single digit number if system is idle, and original 30microsecond response is present when i watch FullHD video on youtube.

Now I just have to figure out why i cannot disable USB ports in BIOS...


----------



## Offler

Small update. If you have TV tuner, LatencyMon can tell you about its driver a lot. Mine (Avermedia 707) seems like "always on". ISR count is higher than from network card and PS2 driver combined. Its almost same as having that device active and watching TV.

Its better to disable those devices if not currently used. This is also true for webcams (which are almost identical).


----------



## PurpleChef

Just wanted to share this picture of Corsair Strafe settings in Corsair Utility Enginge, for people looking for keyboard with the option to change to keyboard polling rate, as an alternative to PS2 keyboard








Its currently set at 125 Hz / 8 msec.


----------



## krstq

I AM GETTING 600-640-900
UGGHH


----------



## Scorpion667

Thought I'd share this for anyone interested in seeing a comparison of Windows 7 and 10 (both tweaked and stripped to perfection) for the game WW2 and LatencyMon results. The FPS results are an average of 5 games played, time in which LatencyMon was running in order to get the results you see in the sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qOG5RM1fkdMaN18a_3biKvSAu6WEWBxglq2xfaryC00/edit?usp=sharing

TLR Windows 10 wins in fps, latency seems somewhat better on Windows 7.

Both OS have all unused features/apps stripped, with all non essential services set to disabled/manual, high performance power plan and much more. Windows 10 was NOT an easy OS to tame in terms of optimization.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Just wanted to share this picture of Corsair Strafe settings in Corsair Utility Enginge, for people looking for keyboard with the option to change to keyboard polling rate, as an alternative to PS2 keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its currently set at 125 Hz / 8 msec.


Did you notice any issues with 1000 hz compare to 125 hz ??


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Thought I'd share this for anyone interested in seeing a comparison of Windows 7 and 10 (both tweaked and stripped to perfection) for the game WW2 and LatencyMon results. The FPS results are an average of 5 games played, time in which LatencyMon was running in order to get the results you see in the sheet:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qOG5RM1fkdMaN18a_3biKvSAu6WEWBxglq2xfaryC00/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> TLR Windows 10 wins in fps, latency seems somewhat better on Windows 7.
> 
> Both OS have all unused features/apps stripped, with all non essential services set to disabled/manual, high performance power plan and much more. Windows 10 was NOT an easy OS to tame in terms of optimization.


If you apply 5% margin of error, FPS are within it. Both can be simply result of "ticking" and "tickless" kernels.

Same cant be told for IRS and DPC calls, but time required for execution might be somehow random. What i see bit problematic are three things.

a) Nvidia driver shows up as the driver with longest DPC calls on both systems.
0.8 milisecond is far too much considering that whole rendering process should take about 10 miliseconds. I read some stuff how AMD follows tha guidelines by Microsoft, while Nvidia does not. I considered them to be a half-baked babble by some AMD fanboys. But I have seen this confirmed in LatencyMon from multiple sources. AMD apparently dont show up here.

b) quite a lot of time is dedicated to sound card.
C-Media or other soundcards are usually just DAC's while the whole logic behind the driver is operated by CPU. Creative cards (even when no longer supported by Microsoft, since directsound is not used anymore) or current AMD graphic cards with sound capabilities are better solution.

c) I dont see USB/PS2 or keyboard/mouse drivers.
My reasons for having PS2 are that this kind of device is hardwired into most systems, even nowadays. So I occupied the ports, knowing that both devices would get their own IRQ, which is always "closer to metal" compared to USB. Yeah, yeah i will have 200Hz polling rate max, and I do have that tweak.

Seeing high amount of IRS calls from mouse/keyboard drivers is a good sign, because it means the devices have high priority, and they are transferring a lot of data.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> If you apply 5% margin of error, FPS are within it. Both can be simply result of "ticking" and "tickless" kernels.
> 
> Same cant be told for IRS and DPC calls, but time required for execution might be somehow random. What i see bit problematic are three things.
> 
> a) Nvidia driver shows up as the driver with longest DPC calls on both systems.
> 0.8 milisecond is far too much considering that whole rendering process should take about 10 miliseconds. I read some stuff how AMD follows tha guidelines by Microsoft, while Nvidia does not. I considered them to be a half-baked babble by some AMD fanboys. But I have seen this confirmed in LatencyMon from multiple sources. AMD apparently dont show up here.
> 
> b) quite a lot of time is dedicated to sound card.
> C-Media or other soundcards are usually just DAC's while the whole logic behind the driver is operated by CPU. Creative cards (even when no longer supported by Microsoft, since directsound is not used anymore) or current AMD graphic cards with sound capabilities are better solution.
> 
> c) I dont see USB/PS2 or keyboard/mouse drivers.
> My reasons for having PS2 are that this kind of device is hardwired into most systems, even nowadays. So I occupied the ports, knowing that both devices would get their own IRQ, which is always "closer to metal" compared to USB. Yeah, yeah i will have 200Hz polling rate max, and I do have that tweak.
> 
> Seeing high amount of IRS calls from mouse/keyboard drivers is a good sign, because it means the devices have high priority, and they are transferring a lot of data.


a) The FPS differences are rather consistent, but I will admit it's more obvious at 4K render than the 1080p results I recorded. That was 5x180 second fraps benchmark, each on different matches/maps - I'll try to add results with 4k render as it seems that's where 10 did considerably better, to the point where I would consider it playable on 10 and not so much on 7. I have 7 and 10 on different SSDs so if you guys need any testing done let me know.

b) Completely agree, I've tried every Xonar Unified driver available for Windows 7 and 10 for the card in "Low DPC latency" install mode but none of them are especially good for DPC latency. The problem is I am planning on transitioning to the Mainstream platform which has less PCIe lanes so not sure if investing in a better sound card at this time is wise rather than selecting a Z370 motherboard with half decent onboard audio. Wouldn't adding a PCIe 4x sound card on the mainstream platform drop the GPU to 8x? CPU max PCIe lanes is listed as 16x for that platform.

c) You're right I didn't include drivers tab, let me add it below, Win7 on top:




I have a love affair with the K70 keyboard and it's media controls lol - unfortunately it's not PS/2 compatible and lot of the newer boards are unfortunately missing this port. The KB and Mouse are both set to 500hz; I only mention that as Total Execution time of USB driver is directly proportional to that. I have used the Steelseries 6gv2 via PS2 before and it has in fact saved me from a few reimages when I wiped my USB driver and RDP was disabled on the machine (Remote Registry service wouldn't start either due to an RPC error, otherwise I could have started remote registry service from my laptop, enabled RDP in the remote registry, logged on and fixed the issue).

I'm considering disabling the PCIe sound card and Intel NIC (neither are officially supported anymore by the vendor in W10) and trying the onboard solutions for these for the first time in three years... maybe the drivers are less terrible after 6 years of this motherboard being out.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> a) The FPS differences are rather consistent, but I will admit it's more obvious at 4K render than the 1080p results I recorded. That was 5x180 second fraps benchmark, each on different matches/maps - I'll try to add results with 4k render as it seems that's where 10 did considerably better, to the point where I would consider it playable on 10 and not so much on 7. I have 7 and 10 on different SSDs so if you guys need any testing done let me know. At the end of the day however this testing is very limited, just to help me pick the better platform for my specific needs.
> 
> b) Completely agree, I've tried every Xonar Unified driver available for Windows 7 and 10 for the card in "Low DPC latency" install mode but none of them are especially good for DPC latency. The problem is I am planning on transitioning to the Mainstream platform which has less PCIe lanes so not sure if investing in a better sound card at this time is wise rather than selecting a Z370 motherboard with half decent onboard audio. Wouldn't adding a PCIe 4x sound card on the mainstream platform drop the GPU to 8x? CPU max PCIe lanes is listed as 16x for that platform.
> 
> c) You're right I didn't include drivers tab, let me add it below, Win7 on top:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a love affair with the K70 keyboard and it's media controls lol - unfortunately it's not PS/2 compatible and lot of the newer boards are unfortunately missing this port. The KB and Mouse are both set to 500hz; I only mention that as Total Execution time of USB driver is directly proportional to that. I have used the Steelseries 6gv2 via PS2 before and it has in fact saved me from a few reimages when I wiped my USB driver and RDP was disabled on the machine (Remote Registry service wouldn't start either due to an RPC error, otherwise I could have started remote registry service from my laptop, enabled RDP in the remote registry, logged on and fixed the issue).
> 
> I'm considering disabling the PCIe sound card and Intel NIC (neither are officially supported anymore by the vendor in W10) and trying the onboard solutions for these for the first time in three years... maybe the drivers are less terrible after 6 years of this motherboard being out.


Its always a good practice to disable/remove devices which are not being used, and be sure that driver is being uninstalled properly. After I checked my system with LatencyMon, i found out bunch of drivers which should be uninstalled more than 5 years ago, so i took the opportunity to cleanup the system. Once two specific drivers were gone, system was performing significantly better.

Also screenshot you provided helped me to understand that PS2 port driver is present, but since there is literally NO data transfers , it does not do any IRS or DPC calls. USB driver contrary to that, is always active. If you have available devices, and are actively using it, its fine. Might be worth to note that PS2 drivers are making a lot more ISR calls, while USB drivers do DPC calls. USB thus has lower priority. PS2 port driver took longer time to process, when compared to your USB driver. Not sure why, on my system they are about equal - so i guess its because you have newer CPU.

Considering that, I would either build a system which is not using USB at all (literally my current situation), or a system which might have Ps2, but not connecting anything there, would serve the purpose as well. My only concern in that case would be true NKRO, or no shadowing on keyboard.

On Nvidia VS AMD topic i noticed that your drivers also contain HAL.DLL - Hardware abstraction layer. Thats no surprise, but In my case it does A LOT of ISR calls. In your case its almost inactive, doing few DPC calls. So i suspect this is related to AMD/NVidia driver architecture and indirectly confirms my previous thougts.

AMD driver does not have any DLL which is making a lot of calls. HAL.DLL does that instead as oficially required by the driver standards.

Nvidia apparenlty goes its own way. Yet longest execution by Hal.dll was in my case 0.011ms, in case of nvlddmkm.dll it was 0.36ms.

Assuming from that, AMD drivers should be more efficient when it comes to CPU utilization, yet harder to code, as its Microsoft which has the last word.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Curleyyy*
> 
> Sure! Tbh there's not much - I deleted a few things so the file size would be smaller but they weren't required.
> 
> Uploads almost finished:
> 
> EDIT: Updates finished: https://www.sendspace.com/file/pcgdx9
> 
> EDIT 2: I made a bookmarks folder but can't find it, lmao sorry.


reupload?


----------



## Syntractrix

18~ mins of gaming

I've noticed that a lot of people dont even have usb 3.0 drivers installed "iusb3xhc.sys" on their systems so please enlighten me on how to. I'm assuming that you completely uninstall the usb 3.0 drivers (im pretty sure that some folks know how to install w7 or any other kind of os without 3.0 drivers) but in my case I cant because of the way I install. Anyways I thought that you have to have some kind of a ps/2 mouse to control your movements when the 3.0 drivers are not present or a ps/2 keyboard with sticky keys turned on to control your mouse with arrow keys but shouldn't windows itself install the native 2.0 drivers automatically when the 3.0 ones get uninstalled? wouldnt a ps/2 mouse just use a different driver called i8402prt.sys? so how in hell do I force my system to use 2.0 haha. Im assuming that my motherboard just doesnt let me to.

Things ive tried in bios:

Disabling legacy usb support
Disabling XHCI Hand-off
Disabling all of usb ports excluding two usb 2.0 ports


----------



## Offler

If you have PS2 controllers the i8402prt.sys will pop up.

If you disabled USB in Bios, it may happen (as i my case) that OS will still recognize USB ports even when each single one is disabled in bios. So then I rather disabled USB ports in Device manager instead, and relative high usage of resources by USB driver was gone.

In your case iusb3xhc.sys is an Intel driver. Unless you dont need bunch of ports for whatever reason, its best to keep one of USB 2.0, USB 3.0 or PS/2 active, and disable everything else. (PS2 will remain inactive if no devices are connected).


----------



## Syntractrix

Welp, I think that I may have messed something up. I actually managed to get usbport.sys to work for a couple of seconds (I think) because device manager didnt display the regular intel 3.0 drivers instead it wrote something like a usb device instead and then windows update kicked in it installed intel 3.0 drivers automatically (I had it on automatic in case if something messed up) beyond that point everything went down hill from there my cursor dissapeared completely and my peripherals were not responding to ANY commands.. Right now im writing from my phone and not sure what to do

EDIT: Apparently boot from last known good configuration fixed it but not permamently I can use my mouse and keyboard for like 5 minutes and then windows decides to install some kind of drivers and I completely lose the control of my mouse the cursor dissapears and keyboard turns itself off as soon as I boot into minimal safe mode the same process happens
this is so confusing now when trying to use the boot from last known good configuration I get booted into safe mode and 5 seconds in the drivers get installed and everything becomes disabled

2nd EDIT: I managed to take a screenshot with my phone of device manager when booting from last known good configuration what is going on


----------



## Offler

In general, dont disable "system devices"...


----------



## Syntractrix

got it fixed







with ps/2 emulation


----------



## 477909

Stumbled on this recent post on /r/GlobalOffensive maybe it could help the Intel 200 mobo users

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/7nmelf/psa_output_lag_fix_for_intel_200_series/


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nxts*
> 
> Stumbled on this recent post on /r/GlobalOffensive maybe it could help the Intel 200 mobo users
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/7nmelf/psa_output_lag_fix_for_intel_200_series/


thank you a lot man

i feel my gameplay feel better


----------



## Versus2190

I also want to thank you nxts, it works on my Z170 system as well! Finally I have time to react.
Thank you!

Now we have to find out which driver exactly is causing this issue. One of the chipset drivers, MEI driver or both!?


----------



## 477909

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Versus2190*
> 
> I also want to thank you nxts, it works on my Z170 system as well! Finally I have time to react.
> Thank you!
> 
> Now we have to find out which driver exactly is causing this issue. One of the chipset drivers, MEI driver or both!?


No problem, and i feel like it is the MEI driver mainly.


----------



## kittinzaa

You can completely remove Intel ME by using modded BIOS.
here's the tool call "me cleaner"
https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner

With this tool ME will stop running even in the backgound, In theory it would significantly improve system responsive.


----------



## whood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> You can completely remove Intel ME by using modded BIOS.
> here's the tool call "me cleaner"
> https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner
> 
> With this tool ME will stop running even in the backgound, In theory it would significantly improve system responsive.


Thank you! It worked like a charm. No more IMEI in device manager.


----------



## Nastya

Removing the ME may result in clock issues, such as inability to modify BCLK, lack of system frequencies precision, inability to change CPU features. All of which seem to be dependent on the ME ICC function.

Think before you clean.


----------



## JackCY

Considering ME runs on it's own hardware it does not eat away your CPU performance really. Good luck measuring the difference. Removed/crippled it can be done, even almost removed on some platforms but as said above you may run into unexpected issues.
ME is like an Intel overlord, running on it's own machine watching what you're doing.


----------



## VolsAndJezuz

Guys please stop claiming things are making a difference on your system based on feel alone when it involves changing core functions of the OS/drivers/etc.

In order to recommend such seemingly silly things like disabling and "cleaning" Intel ME, you either need good statistical data that show there's a difference (from LatencyMon, benchmarks, etc), or data from A/B/X experiments showing that the difference is perceptible.


----------



## Syntractrix

The only reason for me to disable those devices would be that they share the same IRQ numbers throughput each other and that usually introduces conflicts and so on.

Before: 

After:


----------



## whood

I've never seen any difference with or without IMEI driver. I thought "Why would i keep it if there's no difference for my PC? I can't overclock my CPU, i never change bclk cause it's close to 100 and can't be any better, i can still disable all power saving features i never use" and just modded and flashed new bios without this feature.
For anyone who wants to try this - read articles before doing it.


----------



## Timecard

Intel Management Engine has quite a bit of publicly known flaws at least of lately, it is essentially another computer running on your CPU which has backdoor/management capabilities which is invisible to your main operating system.

Make sure you apply latest BIOS updates to patch IME vulnerabilities, that is... assuming your vendor has released one otherwise you have some risk.

https://www.wired.com/story/intel-management-engine-vulnerabilities-pcs-servers-iot/


----------



## Syntractrix

If you don't want to sacrifice your computers performance but be vulnurable to the new Intel kernel bug or a security exploit so called "meltdown" then please do not update your BIOS to the newest version and don't install the following updates designed to temporarily "fix" the security flaw

W7: KB4056894 afaik it even causes BSODs on a lot of systems
W10: KB4056892, KB4056890

Intel reports a performance loss from 5% up to 30% (games dont actually suffer from that kind of performance loss though)
It's going to affect not just gaming, but all computing tasks.

SSDs are actually affected the most, even more than your typical CPUs "computing peformance" and so on. One video reports the degradation of 512k write/read that occurs up to 41% as stated in here:

https://youtu.be/JbhKUjPRk5Q?t=594

To disable or block the fix:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" /v FeatureSettingsOverride /t REG_DWORD /d 3 /f

reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" /v FeatureSettingsOverrideMask /t REG_DWORD /d 3 /f



To re-enable or reactivate the fix:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" /v FeatureSettingsOverride /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" /v FeatureSettingsOverrideMask /t REG_DWORD /d 3 /f



Imho, you should still "patch up" your system. Better be safe than sorry. And being a smart-ass in this case would actually be kind of dumb, since you can get affected by the exploit in so many ways. Afaik you can even get infected through javascript.


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syntractrix*
> 
> Intel reports a performance loss from 5% up to 30% (games dont actually suffer from that kind of performance loss though)
> It's going to affect not just gaming, but all computing tasks.


Where did you get that number from?


----------



## Syntractrix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MooMoo*
> 
> Where did you get that number from?


Straight from here









https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/7nptsc/intel_cpus_to_receive_a_530_performance_hit_soon/

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/intel-chip-5-30-performance-hit.316667/

https://www.techspot.com/news/72550-massive-security-flaw-found-almost-all-intel-cpus.html

https://www.pcgamesn.com//intel-cpu-pti-security-bug

http://www.nag.co.za/2018/01/04/intels-up-to-30-performance-drop-explained/

https://lonesysadmin.net/2018/01/02/intel-cpu-design-flaw-performance-degradation-security-updates/


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syntractrix*
> 
> Straight from here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/7nptsc/intel_cpus_to_receive_a_530_performance_hit_soon/
> 
> https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/intel-chip-5-30-performance-hit.316667/
> 
> https://www.techspot.com/news/72550-massive-security-flaw-found-almost-all-intel-cpus.html
> 
> https://www.pcgamesn.com//intel-cpu-pti-security-bug
> 
> http://www.nag.co.za/2018/01/04/intels-up-to-30-performance-drop-explained/
> 
> https://lonesysadmin.net/2018/01/02/intel-cpu-design-flaw-performance-degradation-security-updates/


By quickly eyeballing those through, none of them said that Intel reported those findings. Did I understoond something wrong about this "*Intel reports* a performance loss from 5% up to 30%"?


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MooMoo*
> 
> By quickly eyeballing those through, none of them said that Intel reported those findings. Did I understoond something wrong about this "*Intel reports* a performance loss from 5% up to 30%"?


Earlier last year Alex Ionescu in his twitter stated that solution may have 50% impact, because kernel is being hidden from the user processes so it has to be copied up and down. Linux developers and guys who demonstrated the vulnerability stated that implementation of the fix called KPTI can cause performance loss between 5 and 30 % depending on operation type.

Real measuring of IO operations on linux and SQL (forgot exact distro and variation) showed 23% loss on these operations.

Intel keeps saying "there is no hardware bug". That is technically correct, yet the software fix for the issue is primarily needed because of their hardware architecture.

When it comes to such statements, check for "Intel compiler vs AMD". For some time i considered it to be conspiracy theory about how Intel cramps AMD performance by making proper code optimizations, and keeping less optimal variants for AMD - especially in one benchmark and demonstrated that the theory is true.

KPTI and other mirigations are in a way similar to the way how Intel Compiler affected application performance in the past. To bypass certain vulnerabilities, code has to be less optimal. Thats about it.


----------



## Offler

Hate to doublepost, but did some research on the main topic and its completely unrelated to previous post.

*IOMMU*
In general its used for Virtualization (ESX, HyperV, VMware), but has its usages for stand-alone desktops machines - as it helps to older PCI devices to properly address 64bit memory space. Chipsets from AMD however utilize bit older standard without some performance. Also it should protect memory from DMA attacks.

IOMMU then can help older PCI devices which are able to address 32bit space, or have 32 bit driver. For example my Creative Soundblaster X-fi:
https://www.creative.com/oem/resources/Chips/CA20K1.pdf

It uses 32bit PCI interface therefore IOMMU can be enabled to simplify card functioning. If disabled, card will work, but OS has to use bounce buffers to allow the card access data it requires if its above 4gb address space. At this point I have to perform measurings with Latency Mon and some benchmarks to find out "which overhead is better". However I cannot enable IOMMU only for one device. its all or nothing.

Best scenario for performance:
All devices can address 64bit address space (over 4 gb RAM)
IOMMU disabled

Note: PCI slot on my mainboard can host both 32 and 64bit PCI devices. Whether the device (usually older PCI cards) are able to use only 32bit address space, is however hardware specific, and has to be found out within the documentation. Also I dont know if there are any used any legacy 32bit interfaces by OnBoard hardware.

More info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input-output_memory_management_unit

If enabled, access from all hardware devices with DMA acces to memory, is managed by it

If disabled, hardware devices access memory without it.

*HPET - Hight Precision Event Time*r
Its a hardware clock located in Southbridge chip. It should be more precise compared to standard RTC. Basically its the reason why Win10 feels faster or smoother compared to Win7, as Win7 has by default incorrect setting regarding this feature..

Whether to enable or disable it, its however hardware, OS and software specific.In general this timer should help to multimedia streaming. In Windows its supported since Vista, yet its full potential probably comes with newer "tickless kernel" versions 8.0, 8.1 and 10.

Reports from 2014 indicate that if the feature was successfully disabled in both Bios and OS, the system had slightly shorter input lag, but more microstuttering. In later years and in Windows 10 people reported better performance when enabled.

Apparenlty it seems that certain parts of DirectX other APIs or driver inferfaces (Hal.DLL) do support HPET, but certain parts dont and go with RTC timers. Such information however is almost impossible to obtain. Initial specifics for this type of timer go back to 2004, has been adopted by microsoft in 2006 (Vista). Support in DirectX 9.0c (2001) is therefore questionable, in DX10-11 or newer should be present.

And then there is question how are game engines and hardware basing their operation within system. If RTC clock is base for anything within the running, certain operation which might use HPET get out of sync, and might be perceivable as microstutter. Using RTC timer only is then more simple solution.

Hope this helps

Edit:
So it seems that even when HPET is enabled in BIOS, it might be necessary to enable it in Windows using few commands. In the end games might end up conflicting and dropping FPS if BIOS and and OS settings do not match. Disabling it in bios would be the easiest way to solve issue.

When it comes to LatencyMon, when HPET is properly enabled, measured latency is constantly 30 microseconds, but does not sem to fluctuate that much compared to RTC timer. Cant tell whether its more precise measurement, or higher delay. Yet 30 microseconds (0.03 milisecond) is definitely outside range of human perception.

FPS in 3dmark = within margin of error
FPS in Witcher 3, 4k. From 30 to 33, yet this seting is heavilty GPU bound.

Edit2: With HPET properly enabled, TV tuner driver is not making any unnecessary calls to system.
Also overall management of drivers and scheduling seems to act completely different. For example Core0 gets much of system related tasks, Core1 and 2 almost no load. (According to LatencyMon).

Edit3: HPET is by default not enabled Windows 7, but it could be present in device manager as "High precision event timer" device.
In such situation system will use RTC timer by default, but applications may pick the HPET device as its default timer, and result is loss of performance due timing problems. Actually its wonder that systems/apps are not crashing to BSOD...

In Windows 10 its enabled by default.

To verify your state:
a) check if "High Precision Event Timer" is present in Device manager. You may check BIOS setting for it afterwards.
b) Use command "bcdedit /enum"
Line "useplatformclock Yes" means that HPET is enabled and used by the system. Line is usually missing if its not used.

If the device is present in Device manager (and is Enabled in Bios), but line is not in the output of the command, its may lead to certain problems with stutterring.

If both are enabled, keep it as is.

If its enabled in Bios, but not used by OS, disable it in BIOS. Verify that HPET device is no longer present in device manager.

If it remains present there anyway, it could mean that BIOS is little bit bugged, and cannot properly disable it, or OS cannot properly remove the device from the list. This is a grey area. I havent tried to remove it from device manager manually yet (as my Bios seems to be unable to disable it properly), so I kept enabled it, and enabled in system by command "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true". Reboot is required.

Correct scenarios are:
1. HPET is enabled in Bios, its present in device manager and Windows has "useplatformclock Yes"
2. HPET is disabled, not present in device manager and Windows does not have usetplatformclock present.
To disable it in Windows use command "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock"

Incorrect scenarions may potentially lead to BSOD on boot, so be careful. If you want to disable you have to follow this order.

1. First disable its usage in windows with the command "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock". Reboot the system.
2. Disable HPET in BIOS.
3. Remove the "High Performance Event Timer" from Device manager if still present (it should not be there).
4. Reboot the system and verify it HPET driver havent popped up again.

HPET enabled may help to resolve sync issues with multimedia, streaming, and help with performance with newer games.
HPET Disabled may resolve poor performance, FPS drops or stuttering of certain games, which rely on RTC.

If properly enabled/disabled (see correct scenarios) it will resolve stuttering, sync and FPS issues in general, not only for multimedia, but also for drivers, task scheduling and will improve system "fluidity".


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syntractrix*
> 
> Why are you so eager to see the statement only from intel, do you jack off to that kind of sht or what is wrong with you? kinda strange to see that kind of behavior over one thing, anyways this is the closest that I've gotten in discovering the official statement if it's on wikipedia it has to be right https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(securitiy_vulnerability)
> And if you really want to be braindead you could always message the official intel support on their page and get a direct response from them about the 5% to 30% performance loss, like why do you even care about the numbers what matters is that theres definitely a loss of performance and it can be as little as no performance loss or a whopping 35% loss it all depends on the system you use. Even jayz on his yt video said himself that theres a loss ranging from 5 to 30% and your arrogance is quite disgusting if I do say so myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and if youre still doubtful ask yourself a question "why would the whole network be filled with the exact number people definitely wouldnt be lyin would they"


Whoa, what a reply...









I was just wondering did I get it right.

I don't care about other sources, but you said that "Intel reports" and wanted to see that Intel report, but seems that there isn't that report you said.
It's not like I don't belive on those other sources, I just wanted to see that Intel report.


----------



## kurtextrem

https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/microsoftsecure/2018/01/09/understanding-the-performance-impact-of-spectre-and-meltdown-mitigations-on-windows-systems/
"Performance"


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *Sound*
> 
> 1) Set your bitrate to 16bit 44.1k, anything higher causes a huge hit to mouse response.
> 
> 2) Settings like CMSS, EAX, Crystallizer, etc, all need to be disabled


The above is in general true, but keep in mind that most "sound cards" are just Digital-Analog Converter (DAC), which is just one of the components which is used by a full sound card, while all the hard work is done by CPU.

An exaple:
https://www.creative.com/oem/resources/Chips/CA20K1.pdf

Best setting for the Creative Xfi cards should be the native 96Khz 24bits, while the card will convert incoming data into this format on its own (it has dedicated performance as 486 PC).

16bit 44.1Khz is the most commonly used format so in case you dont have capable hardware, no re-sampling is needed on side of CPU.


----------



## chuckiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Hate to doublepost, but did some research on the main topic and its completely unrelated to previous post.
> 
> *IOMMU*
> In general its used for Virtualization (ESX, HyperV, VMware), but has its usages for stand-alone desktops machines - as it helps to older PCI devices to properly address 64bit memory space. Chipsets from AMD however utilize bit older standard without some performance. Also it should protect memory from DMA attacks.
> 
> IOMMU then can help older PCI devices which are able to address 32bit space, or have 32 bit driver. For example my Creative Soundblaster X-fi:
> https://www.creative.com/oem/resources/Chips/CA20K1.pdf
> 
> It uses 32bit PCI interface therefore IOMMU can be enabled to simplify card functioning. If disabled, card will work, but OS has to use bounce buffers to allow the card access data it requires if its above 4gb address space. At this point I have to perform measurings with Latency Mon and some benchmarks to find out "which overhead is better". However I cannot enable IOMMU only for one device. its all or nothing.
> 
> Best scenario for performance:
> All devices can address 64bit address space (over 4 gb RAM)
> IOMMU disabled
> 
> Note: PCI slot on my mainboard can host both 32 and 64bit PCI devices. Whether the device (usually older PCI cards) are able to use only 32bit address space, is however hardware specific, and has to be found out within the documentation. Also I dont know if there are any used any legacy 32bit interfaces by OnBoard hardware.
> 
> More info here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input-output_memory_management_unit
> 
> If enabled, access from all hardware devices with DMA acces to memory, is managed by it
> 
> If disabled, hardware devices access memory without it.
> 
> *HPET - Hight Precision Event Time*r
> Its a hardware clock located in Southbridge chip. It should be more precise compared to standard RTC.
> 
> Whether to enable or disable it, its however hardware, OS and software specific.In general this timer should help to multimedia streaming. In Windows its supported since Vista, yet its full potential probably comes with newer "tickless kernel" versions 8.0, 8.1 and 10.
> 
> Reports from 2014 indicate that if the feature was successfully disabled in both Bios and OS, the system had slightly longer input lag, but less microstuttering. In later years and in Windows 10 people reported better performance when enabled.
> 
> Apparenlty certain parts of DirectX other APIs or driver inferfaces (Hal.DLL) do support HPET, but certain parts dont and go with RTC timers. Such information however is almost impossible to obtain. Initial specifics for this type of timer go back to 2004, has been adopted by microsoft in 2006 (Vista). Support in DirectX 9.0c (2001) is therefore questionable, in DX10-11 or newer should be present.
> 
> And then there is queston how are game engines and hardware basing their operation within system. If RTC clock is base for anything within the running, certain operation which might use HPET get out of sync, and might be perceivable as microstutter. Using RTC timer only is then more simple solution.
> 
> Edit:
> So it seems that even when HPET is enabled in BIOS, it might be necessary to enable it in Windows using few commands. In the end games might end up conflicting and dropping FPS if BIOS and and OS settings do not match. Disabling it in bios would be the easiest way to solve issue.
> 
> When it comes to LatencyMon, when HPET is properly enabled, measured latency is constantly 30 microseconds, but does not sem to fluctuate that much compared to RTC timer. Cant tell whether its more precise measurement, or higher delay. Yet 30 microseconds (0.03 milisecond) is definitely outside range of human perception.
> 
> FPS in 3dmark = within margin of error
> FPS in Witcher 3, 4k. From 30 to 33, yet this seting is heavilty GPU bound.
> 
> Edit2: With HPET properly enabled, TV tuner driver is not making any unnecessary calls to system.
> Also overall management of drivers and scheduling seems to act completely different. For example Core0 gets much of system related tasks, Core1 and 2 almost no load. (According to LatencyMon).


Hi i have asus z97-a mobo and I don't have option in BIOS to turn off or on hpet, should I disable or enable HPET through cmd for better gaming performance? I have HPET in device manager.


----------



## Syntractrix

If you dont have the option to disable or enable hpet in bios then dont even mess with it


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> Hi i have asus z97-a mobo and I don't have option in BIOS to turn off or on hpet, should I disable or enable HPET through cmd for better gaming performance? I have HPET in device manager.


If you have Windows 10, you are safe.

If you have Windows 7 look for "High Precision Event Timer" in device manager. If its NOT there, ifs fine..


----------



## chuckiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> If you have Windows 10, you are safe.
> 
> If you have Windows 7 look for "High Precision Event Timer" in device manager. If its NOT there, ifs fine..


I have windows 7 yeah and I have HPET in device manager its enabled.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckiz*
> 
> I have windows 7 yeah and I have HPET in device manager its enabled.


I edited the post with HPET. I added commands which allow to check, enable or disable the feature for OS. Z97 platform is new enought to contain the feature - its just no longer possibility to set it in BIOS, but I cannot be sure about that.

Also further tests shows that even I enabled it, and it resolved some issues for me (better system fluidity, better driver behavior, better CPU management) it may cause trouble for some games.

According to LatencyMon, if HPET is properly enabled (both in Bios and OS) really adds about 30 microseconds to system latency.

You may try command bcdedit /enum and check fo rmore instructions in my post.


----------



## Offler

Regarding HPET, RTC and Latency Monitor...

RTC usually runs on 32678hz. This frequency might be increased by OS, or motherboard manufacturer, but the base is still derived from the crystal oscillation.

That frequency means that RTC "ticks" once every 30.518 microseconds.

HPET by specifications provided by Intel back in 2004 should run at leat at 10 Mhz, which is much more precise.

So those extra 30 microseconds in LatencyMon can just mean extra precision in measuring.


----------



## cimi

Hi guys,

i have BIG problem with my mouse and gamin(every game),mouse feels like gliding on ice,i spent last 2 years searching and trying every possible solution on net..Can you help me what to disable enable in my device menager to fix this..

i Have

6700k
z170

I had before AMD FX and i had 0% problems,as soon i put intel components problem started.I can provide you every ss you need.

Ty in advance.


----------



## kittinzaa

Here is a method to prevent windows to install HPET(or any hardwares driver) by blocking with device's ID through group policy setting.
https://www.anotherwindowsblog.com/2012/08/how-to-prevent-devices-from-installing-in-windows.html/2

don't forget to disable unknow device afterward.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> Here is a method to prevent windows to install HPET(or any hardwares driver) by blocking with device's ID through group policy setting.
> https://www.anotherwindowsblog.com/2012/08/how-to-prevent-devices-from-installing-in-windows.html/2
> 
> don't forget to disable unknow device afterward.


thanks. did it fix anything for you?


----------



## kittinzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> thabks. did it fix anything for you?


Of course you will get better responsiveness.
Here is another example to use: I disabled my mouse, keyboard macro driver, multimedia button it can help to reduce hardware latency.
or unuse device like Legacy device, Nemeric processor etc.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> Of course you will get better responsiveness.
> Here is another example to use: I disabled my mouse, keyboard macro driver, multimedia button it can help to reduce hardware latency.
> or unuse device like Legacy device, Nemeric processor etc.


Disabled your mouse ? I don't understand

I have AMD . for AMD it seems HPET enabled even when you disable HPET from the bios . I think it's build in the cpu because it has 2 IRQ's which means for each die.
because 1900x series has 2 dies .


----------



## kittinzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Disabled your mouse ? I don't understand
> 
> I have AMD . for AMD it seems HPET enabled even when you disable HPET from the bios . I think it's build in the cpu because it has 2 IRQ's which means for each die.
> because 1900x series has 2 dies .


Just go to control panel > Devices and printer then right click on your device > Propoties
one real hardware will appear as multi devices to windows so you can disable sub devices you don't use like a macro driver in my example and your mouse will still working just without macro.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> Just go to control panel > Devices and printer then right click on your device > Propoties
> one real hardware will appear as multi devices to windows so you can disable sub devices you don't use like a macro driver in my example and your mouse will still working just without macro.


can you list devices that you disable it ?


----------



## kittinzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nawafwabs*
> 
> can you list devices that you disable it ?


I can't capture the screenshot because what disabled already shown as Unknown devices.
just do an experiment if you disabled wrong one no problem just re-enable it.
(be aware that you can disable your mouse pointer so just turn on mouse key before or having reserved mosue to re-enable it.)


----------



## Nawafwabs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kittinzaa*
> 
> I can't capture the screenshot because what disabled already shown as Unknown devices.
> just do an experiment if you disabled wrong one no problem just re-enable it.
> (be aware that you can disable your mouse pointer so just turn on mouse key before or having reserved mosue to re-enable it.)


i want screenshot of all device manager to see what still not disabled


----------



## PurpleChef

Question #1: Fresh install of Windows 8.1. What drivers would you guys update here? whats best do left at native windows driver? ( im not using integrated audio, ignore that one)


Question #2: Do you guys do any network tweaking on fresh installed OS? i see people recommend to disable Flow controll, Interupt Moderation, All Offloads, Jumbo frame, basically everything. I dont know if its just me, but it looks like, in CSGO, that people die when crosshair is not even close, when observing etc, and my connection is 100/10 fiber. Is the csgo netcode just broken or is it my settings?
The answers prolly earlier in this thread, but hard to find.
Got a few answers earlier, but im interested in more feedback about the subject


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PurpleChef*
> 
> Question #1: Fresh install of Windows 8.1. What drivers would you guys update here? whats best do left at native windows driver? ( im not using integrated audio, ignore that one)
> 
> 
> Question #2: Do you guys do any network tweaking on fresh installed OS? i see people recommend to disable Flow controll, Interupt Moderation, All Offloads, Jumbo frame, basically everything. I dont know if its just me, but it looks like, in CSGO, that people die when crosshair is not even close, when observing etc, and my connection is 100/10 fiber. Is the csgo netcode just broken or is it my settings?
> The answers prolly earlier in this thread, but hard to find.
> Got a few answers earlier, but im interested in more feedback about the subject


Regarding network optimizations, I disable Nagle's Algorithm on all of my Windows installs to reduce latency in some online games. There's other changes you can make in the Registry, too, but they can cause some network instability.


----------



## Offler

Regarding nework, this works for me:
https://www.speedguide.net/articles/windows-7-vista-2008-tweaks-2574

Some reading to it will help too.

On Input Lag:





Measuring in video above is waaaay off.

1. Unsynced vs Vsynced
At that point he did realized that FPS went up from 60 to 120+-. Also he measured "first" change on the screen. In Vsynced mode display/gpu presented image only as a whole.

So to make comparison fair you need to compare unsynced images at 60 frame limit, and to mark only "completed" frames. At 60Hz its +16.7ms. His measurings at third test should have measured +24.7 miliseconds at best.

2. CPU, GPU should not reach 100% on any core.
Else the measuring is invalid.
In 1st test he measured CPU and GPU. In 2nd test he measured Graphic Buffer overflow. In 3rd test higher frame rate.

You may reduce effects and resolution to do that , but in fact you are getting away from "normal" game operation.

3. Engine should not stall, and be on static 60Fps (or the refresh rate value)
Else measuring is invalid.

Fraps and Latency mon will help to detect such issues.

4. Using 1000fps camera would get some near to make the testing properly.

I have seen about dozen of such videos and not a single one to this day was not correct...


----------



## Offler

Ok guys, you gave me an idea.

There is a thread and topic about software called Latency Monitor.
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

It allows you to measure activity of drivers. So i decided to test my good old MX 518 G3 (manufactured some time before 2008) using PS/2 interface, USB 1.1_2.0 Interface, and more modern USB 3.0. And the results are more than interesting.

To get best possible results i started the test, and was moving with mouse as much as possible.

a) PS/2
Its still located on absolutely every mainboard as a quite large chip. You can identify its activity in Latency Mon as i8042prt.sys. Its very old interface used over 30 years, and in Windows 10 can be enabled only using special command. Good news is that driver is present in any system, and even when enabled, but not connected it does exactly 0 activity. Here is the result.









PS/2 always assigns IRQ, and you can see that the driver is doing a lot of ISR routine calls to CPUs. Thats a good sign, because you can be sure that PS/2 mouse is getting quite high priority. Longest execution of the driver routine took 52 microseconds, and over 1 minute of measuring, CPU was tasked by mouse for 319 miliseconds. In this specific case, polling rate was tweaked to 200hz.

b) USB 1.1_2.0








This specific USB2.0 port is located in Southbridge AMD SB950. It made much less ISR Calls, much more DPC calls (52582 total, which is more than in case of PS/2 - 47036). Longest execution was 82 microseconds and total execution time took 400 miliseconds over 1 minute. This is basically why i dislike USB connection. Also USB 2.0 driver is active even when nothing is connected to it.

Also Latency Mon was showing worst average response time, and was "jumping" up to 1200 microseconds.

c) USB 3.0
In this case its Asmedia 104x chip, or Asmedia XHCI controller.









Now. i filtered the results by ISR Routine calles, but there is 0 such calls from any mouse or USB related driver. HAL.DLL calls are not increased compared to other tests, so i filtered results by DPC routine calls.









USB 3.0 driver is highlighted. Just 7500 DPC calls which took only 9 miliseconds to process (other drivers took 319 and 400ms CPU time over 1 minute). At first sight the result looks completely incorrect, yet measurings of other OS core components (Hal.dll, ntoskrnl.exe) and overall measurings are better. I will have to doublecheck the results here, but it looks far better I would even expect 

In total, system had worst performance using USB 2.0. In first and last scenarios is the driver for this device completely disabled.

Edit: 7500 DPC calls over 60 seconds = 125Hz polling rate. Almost NO overhead included.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Does anyone know what the driver differences are between Win7 and Win10 that could cause DPC issues on one but not the other? I tried to revert to Win7 and on a fresh install was getting huge DPC spikes up to 600-800 upon doing certain tasks like watching a Youtube video or flicking between tabs. I got upset and re-installed Win10 where the average DPC and interrupt to process was higher, but didn't fly into the atmosphere at random times. I want to keep using Win7 so I hope someone can help me understand why only Win7 fresh install is giving me these problems.


----------



## Offler

I would check the drivers with Latency Mon.

Also you can enable HPET on Windows 7 and see for yourself if it stabilizes DPC latencies (it did for me, but its hardware and software specific). Also try to avoid Flash player in youtube, try HTML5 player instead.


----------



## Offler

There has been a heated discussion in a different topic about DPC latency caused by graphic driver - specifically Nvidia one.

The best way how to measure it is to use stress test such as MSI kombustor or OCCT GPU test.

http://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=63937&thumb=0

This is R9 FuryX with Adrenalin 18.1.1, paired with Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3800Mhz, 1024x768, shader complexity 1, HPET is enabled.

All the settings are transparent, and you can get an idea what the graphic driver does, while most of the error factors is reduced.


----------



## Offler

There has been a heated discussion in a different topic about DPC latency caused by graphic driver - specifically Nvidia one.

The best way how to measure it is to use stress test such as MSI kombustor or OCCT GPU test.

http://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=63937&thumb=0

This is R9 FuryX with Adrenalin 18.1.1, paired with Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3800Mhz, 1024x768, shader complexity 1, HPET is enabled.

All the settings are transparent, and you can get an idea what the graphic driver does, while most of the error factors is reduced.


----------



## Syntractrix

Pretty sure that I broke some kind of a world record


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> Ok guys, you gave me an idea.
> 
> There is a thread and topic about software called Latency Monitor.
> http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
> 
> It allows you to measure activity of drivers. So i decided to test my good old MX 518 G3 (manufactured some time before 2008) using PS/2 interface, USB 1.1_2.0 Interface, and more modern USB 3.0. And the results are more than interesting.
> 
> To get best possible results i started the test, and was moving with mouse as much as possible.
> 
> a) PS/2
> Its still located on absolutely every mainboard as a quite large chip. You can identify its activity in Latency Mon as i8042prt.sys. Its very old interface used over 30 years, and in Windows 10 can be enabled only using special command. Good news is that driver is present in any system, and even when enabled, but not connected it does exactly 0 activity. Here is the result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS/2 always assigns IRQ, and you can see that the driver is doing a lot of ISR routine calls to CPUs. Thats a good sign, because you can be sure that PS/2 mouse is getting quite high priority. Longest execution of the driver routine took 52 microseconds, and over 1 minute of measuring, CPU was tasked by mouse for 319 miliseconds. In this specific case, polling rate was tweaked to 200hz.
> 
> b) USB 1.1_2.0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This specific USB2.0 port is located in Southbridge AMD SB950. It made much less ISR Calls, much more DPC calls (52582 total, which is more than in case of PS/2 - 47036). Longest execution was 82 microseconds and total execution time took 400 miliseconds over 1 minute. This is basically why i dislike USB connection. Also USB 2.0 driver is active even when nothing is connected to it.
> 
> Also Latency Mon was showing worst average response time, and was "jumping" up to 1200 microseconds.
> 
> c) USB 3.0
> In this case its Asmedia 104x chip, or Asmedia XHCI controller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now. i filtered the results by ISR Routine calles, but there is 0 such calls from any mouse or USB related driver. HAL.DLL calls are not increased compared to other tests, so i filtered results by DPC routine calls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USB 3.0 driver is highlighted. Just 7500 DPC calls which took only 9 miliseconds to process (other drivers took 319 and 400ms CPU time over 1 minute). At first sight the result looks completely incorrect, yet measurings of other OS core components (Hal.dll, ntoskrnl.exe) and overall measurings are better. I will have to doublecheck the results here, but it looks far better I would even expect
> 
> In total, system had worst performance using USB 2.0. In first and last scenarios is the driver for this device completely disabled.
> 
> Edit: 7500 DPC calls over 60 seconds = 125Hz polling rate. Almost NO overhead included.


Isn't USB 3.0 causing the mouse to be really slow ? it feels slower compared to the USB 2.0. ...I have tested it with Intel USB and Also AMD USB and Case USB and it is always the same USB 3.0 has way less interrupt but it's VERY SLOW compare to USB 2.0


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> Isn't USB 3.0 causing the mouse to be really slow ? it feels slower compared to the USB 2.0. ...I have tested it with Intel USB and Also AMD USB and Case USB and it is always the same USB 3.0 has way less interrupt but it's VERY SLOW compare to USB 2.0


Not for me (and MX518).

What usually people might feel is:
- mouse sensitivity is resetted
both in windows and in mouse

- polling rate is resetted to 125hz
I am not aware about tweaks how to make it higher.

What I measured that USB 3.0 is the most effective bus with most effective driver.


Edit:
I found interesting behavior for AMD cards. Usually LatencyMon measured 60 000 ISR calls from HAL.DLL and I expected it to be from graphic cards.

As I proceeded to optimize NIC and TCP/IP stack i disabled NetBios Over TCP/IP and went to device manager to disable virtual driver NetBT.sys.

Now... post boot there is short time period when Latency Mon measures only 3700 ISR calls from HAL.DLL, and OCCT GPU test gives more FPS.
It went up from 616 to 650fps. (like 5,52%).

It looks like some driver is making a ISR call to system every 50 miliseconds. And thats quite high polling rate for "idle" state.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Fix for some lags when high FPS but the game is not smooth 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1270041177


----------



## Huzzaa

Same guys still posting after years in this half pseudo science thread...

Sigh...

I used to utilize these tweaks to the max myself but after reinstalling about a month ago and just leaving most the stuff at its defaults(after realizing that messing with them is not really worth it). I've discovered that heck, yeah it's that tad sluggisher? on the desktop but in-game, CS GO for example, my ability to hit targets actually improved. Why? Not sure, but I actually believe it's because of certain mobo implementations of the C states and such. Certain micro-stutters were gone, aim is smooth and accurate, even though I think it's slower to respond but I'm not even sure, it could be that it's just smooth and just as snappy as it was before.

HPET enabled(used to mess with this forever but turning it off starts anomalies that are just not worth dealing with. De-sync in network elements. Erratic fps in-games, since the GPU utilizes it again for syncing etc. etc. But, it made it feel extra snappy on the mouse, yes it did. But it wasn't accurate, it was erratic, every moment you could swipe it to a different distance) z77a-gd65 MSI motherboard.

C-states, all on, except C1E which is off by default, hence I believe it's also best to leave it alone. C1E isn't in the ACPI default spec. either and is actually known** to cause certain noticeable delays in some programs. Why? Because having it on, switches the default C1 state into C1E which drops the CPU core state that tad bit further down on voltage(this is why it causes instability for some guys on their OCs). Some bits of the circuitry then, starts taking longer to wake up, and C1 is practically hand in hand with the operational C0, which is why it can be a problem. All the other C states are actually default by spec and really shouldn't be messed with. The point with it, if you play certain games like WoW for example, it really only utilizes 1 core/thread. And if you have C states off, your just burning the other cores at a higher voltage level for no real reason, causing extra heat and potential micro instability that could otherwise be simply solved by actually utilizing defaults and not wasting energy/heat on burning the entire socket with senseless waste of power. CS:GO does it properly and throws all it needs into C0/C1 states, just as it should, along with the P0 state(max frequency).

EIST - SpeedStep enabled, because of the same above reasons, they go together. I have it on with turbo default which on my rig I've customized with auto voltage and no extra LLC to run upto x44 on all cores. Meaning P0/C0 1.180V - 4400Mhz. i7-3770k. No problems what-so-ever. Droops down to 1.130V x44 on some really nasty loads and doesn't fail. CPU PLL I've only tweaked down to 1.5V because after rigorous testing, it feels much better with it for some reason.

And all the rest of the stuff are on defaults except some really obvious ones like overspeed protection, which are off.

Newer systems, I wouldn't mess with any of this stuff anymore, leave it alone. You want to OC it a bit and that's it but on the newer chips, I wouldn't probably even do that because they already default up to x42 with a much better IPC than my processor and mine runs everything smoothly and well still to this day(regarding new games). My cpu can take on x48 no problem, haven't really tried higher cuz voltage requirements get near 1.3 at that point. It's a good beast.

Windows optimizations?

Where do I begin? Simply just don't mess much with it? Leave it mostly alone? Windows update, well ofc. off, don't need it but the rest of the stuff? Naa, by default optimized well enough(Win 7 obviously, 10 is a horrible mess, that needs to be rebuilt after every install since it's got so much bloat...). The stuff I do actually have off are Windows defender(I don't need it) and???... Hmm. Mouse accel is off ofc. And not much else really. I did take off smooth scrolling under internet options but I don't have Internet Exploder installed. Custom Win 7 Pro x64 from Dec 2016. Team Grinder's ISO if any of you know it. I only use firefox, no other browser. All drives encryped with VeraCrypt and the only real big deal I have changed on the OS is authui.dll in system32 is modified to enable high-res logon background images.
And wouldn't you believe it, I use balanced power profile without usb selective suspend being off :O. Works absolutely fine, no issues. Regarding my earlier statement of thinking of the mouse being sluggish, hell moving it around right now, it aint... This machine also has a linux install next to it.

TLR Point is, most of the stuff you guys are still chasing after, is placebo. You should stick to your defaults for the most part and switch off stuff you know that you don't really need or use and get used to the feel you have. 1 guy in particular, who is still complaining after years, having tried everything? Cartman picture guy.

For the latency matter(that so many of you pursue) On mine, computer idle on desktop with no game running and the CPU and GPU bouncing up and down between their P states and C states. x16-x44 CPU and 135Mhz - 1316Mhz on the GPU the latency goes between 44 us - 300 us spikes.
Game running and CPU locked x44 with audio running, stable solid ~50 us - 70 us. If the GPU still changes frequency it can spike but it's nothing you can really tell with what you see and feel if you don't think about it. Placebo and imagination can really screw with ya's is what I'm saying. The latencies on mine are fine. With all the tweaks done I did happily live at 2us(HPET off etc.) but there were just so many weird things along with it, as I mentioned earlier.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Cool story bro.



Huzzaa said:


> in-game, CS GO for example, my ability to hit targets actually improved. Why? Not sure


You yourself already answered to this question:


Huzzaa said:


> placebo


----------



## noshalans

Normally DPC Latency show me a value between 50-70 in idle, without moving anything. But when I move mouse cursor continuously, latency decrease to 35-45. Is it normal?


----------



## Huzzaa

noshalans said:


> Normally DPC Latency show me a value between 50-70 in idle, without moving anything. But when I move mouse cursor continuously, latency decrease to 35-45. Is it normal?


Yep, because the processor is upping its frequency as you move it around.

You can see this if you run throttlestop at the same time and watch the FID numbers.

The behaviour is similar on my system, especially if the game isn't running. Because then, the CPU downclocks to the lowest P state at x16. As I move the mouse around, most threads rise it up to ~x22 and stay there which in turn stabilizes the DPC readouts.

EDIT: This is ofc. only when you're system is actually using dynamic clocking on the CPU, forgot to mention that. Which practically all motherboards do by default.


----------



## noshalans

Huzzaa said:


> Yep, because the processor is upping its frequency as you move it around.
> 
> You can see this if you run throttlestop at the same time and watch the FID numbers.
> 
> The behaviour is similar on my system, especially if the game isn't running. Because then, the CPU downclocks to the lowest P state at x16. As I move the mouse around, most threads rise it up to ~x22 and stay there which in turn stabilizes the DPC readouts.
> 
> EDIT: This is ofc. only when you're system is actually using dynamic clocking on the CPU, forgot to mention that. Which practically all motherboards do by default.


You couldn't have been clearer. Thank you!


----------



## Offler

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> Cool story bro.


Generally speaking - any fixed setting instead of "auto", disabling unused features and removing crappy hardware or drivers might help to run certain ingame features smoother.

But in some cases people misinterpreted their results - as in case of HPET enabled + you always have to doublecheck the results.. Measuring is more important than a feeling.


----------



## Ainalcar

Offler said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Hate to doublepost, but did some research on the main topic and its completely unrelated to previous post.
> 
> *IOMMU*
> In general its used for Virtualization (ESX, HyperV, VMware), but has its usages for stand-alone desktops machines - as it helps to older PCI devices to properly address 64bit memory space. Chipsets from AMD however utilize bit older standard without some performance. Also it should protect memory from DMA attacks.
> 
> IOMMU then can help older PCI devices which are able to address 32bit space, or have 32 bit driver. For example my Creative Soundblaster X-fi:
> https://www.creative.com/oem/resources/Chips/CA20K1.pdf
> 
> It uses 32bit PCI interface therefore IOMMU can be enabled to simplify card functioning. If disabled, card will work, but OS has to use bounce buffers to allow the card access data it requires if its above 4gb address space. At this point I have to perform measurings with Latency Mon and some benchmarks to find out "which overhead is better". However I cannot enable IOMMU only for one device. its all or nothing.
> 
> Best scenario for performance:
> All devices can address 64bit address space (over 4 gb RAM)
> IOMMU disabled
> 
> Note: PCI slot on my mainboard can host both 32 and 64bit PCI devices. Whether the device (usually older PCI cards) are able to use only 32bit address space, is however hardware specific, and has to be found out within the documentation. Also I dont know if there are any used any legacy 32bit interfaces by OnBoard hardware.
> 
> More info here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input-output_memory_management_unit
> 
> If enabled, access from all hardware devices with DMA acces to memory, is managed by it
> 
> If disabled, hardware devices access memory without it.
> 
> *HPET - Hight Precision Event Time*r
> Its a hardware clock located in Southbridge chip. It should be more precise compared to standard RTC. Basically its the reason why Win10 feels faster or smoother compared to Win7, as Win7 has by default incorrect setting regarding this feature..
> 
> Whether to enable or disable it, its however hardware, OS and software specific.In general this timer should help to multimedia streaming. In Windows its supported since Vista, yet its full potential probably comes with newer "tickless kernel" versions 8.0, 8.1 and 10.
> 
> Reports from 2014 indicate that if the feature was successfully disabled in both Bios and OS, the system had slightly shorter input lag, but more microstuttering. In later years and in Windows 10 people reported better performance when enabled.
> 
> Apparenlty it seems that certain parts of DirectX other APIs or driver inferfaces (Hal.DLL) do support HPET, but certain parts dont and go with RTC timers. Such information however is almost impossible to obtain. Initial specifics for this type of timer go back to 2004, has been adopted by microsoft in 2006 (Vista). Support in DirectX 9.0c (2001) is therefore questionable, in DX10-11 or newer should be present.
> 
> And then there is question how are game engines and hardware basing their operation within system. If RTC clock is base for anything within the running, certain operation which might use HPET get out of sync, and might be perceivable as microstutter. Using RTC timer only is then more simple solution.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Edit:
> So it seems that even when HPET is enabled in BIOS, it might be necessary to enable it in Windows using few commands. In the end games might end up conflicting and dropping FPS if BIOS and and OS settings do not match. Disabling it in bios would be the easiest way to solve issue.
> 
> When it comes to LatencyMon, when HPET is properly enabled, measured latency is constantly 30 microseconds, but does not sem to fluctuate that much compared to RTC timer. Cant tell whether its more precise measurement, or higher delay. Yet 30 microseconds (0.03 milisecond) is definitely outside range of human perception.
> 
> FPS in 3dmark = within margin of error
> FPS in Witcher 3, 4k. From 30 to 33, yet this seting is heavilty GPU bound.
> 
> Edit2: With HPET properly enabled, TV tuner driver is not making any unnecessary calls to system.
> Also overall management of drivers and scheduling seems to act completely different. For example Core0 gets much of system related tasks, Core1 and 2 almost no load. (According to LatencyMon).
> 
> Edit3: HPET is by default not enabled Windows 7, but it could be present in device manager as "High precision event timer" device.
> In such situation system will use RTC timer by default, but applications may pick the HPET device as its default timer, and result is loss of performance due timing problems. Actually its wonder that systems/apps are not crashing to BSOD...
> 
> In Windows 10 its enabled by default.
> 
> To verify your state:
> a) check if "High Precision Event Timer" is present in Device manager. You may check BIOS setting for it afterwards.
> b) Use command "bcdedit /enum"
> Line "useplatformclock Yes" means that HPET is enabled and used by the system. Line is usually missing if its not used.
> 
> If the device is present in Device manager (and is Enabled in Bios), but line is not in the output of the command, its may lead to certain problems with stutterring.
> 
> If both are enabled, keep it as is.
> 
> If its enabled in Bios, but not used by OS, disable it in BIOS. Verify that HPET device is no longer present in device manager.
> 
> If it remains present there anyway, it could mean that BIOS is little bit bugged, and cannot properly disable it, or OS cannot properly remove the device from the list. This is a grey area. I havent tried to remove it from device manager manually yet (as my Bios seems to be unable to disable it properly), so I kept enabled it, and enabled in system by command "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true". Reboot is required.
> 
> Correct scenarios are:
> 1. HPET is enabled in Bios, its present in device manager and Windows has "useplatformclock Yes"
> 2. HPET is disabled, not present in device manager and Windows does not have usetplatformclock present.
> To disable it in Windows use command "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock"
> 
> Incorrect scenarions may potentially lead to BSOD on boot, so be careful. If you want to disable you have to follow this order.
> 
> 1. First disable its usage in windows with the command "bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock". Reboot the system.
> 2. Disable HPET in BIOS.
> 3. Remove the "High Performance Event Timer" from Device manager if still present (it should not be there).
> 4. Reboot the system and verify it HPET driver havent popped up again.
> 
> HPET enabled may help to resolve sync issues with multimedia, streaming, and help with performance with newer games.
> HPET Disabled may resolve poor performance, FPS drops or stuttering of certain games, which rely on RTC.
> 
> If properly enabled/disabled (see correct scenarios) it will resolve stuttering, sync and FPS issues in general, not only for multimedia, but also for drivers, task scheduling and will improve system "fluidity".


great research and info, helped me to resolve an issue I had for a long time with my external DAC.

Thanks


----------



## Dy14n

anyone whos tweaked stuff for ages and isn't getting anywhere move case fans from motherboard to the psi directly through molex connectors. For me this solved my issues. Originally everything was fine till I updated my bios a year or so ago whilst reinstalling. spent hundreds of hours tweaking 7, 8.1 and 10. good thing you can only perceive the minor tweaks if your system is already screwed. ps I feel like core affinity is back in meta. Been having some success with it. also if you haven't tweaked your networking that makes a world of difference. Disabling rsc is the most important one.

I've tweaked several computers owned by some fps players and they could notice the difference so at least I'm not delusional.


----------



## Ainalcar

Hey guys, I seem to be having a problem with my Networking under Windows 10 os.

Can someone of you who is also on windows 10 compare the results with me to see if it's just me or it's Windows 10 in general. (I've seen some threads on this where people confirm it's windows but since there is very little information and complaints I am having doubts)

When benching my Network Interface Latencymon shows values up to 60 thousand Microseconds (?!).

To test it on your system you would need Windows 10, 

Latencymon - http://www.resplendence.com/downloads

and something like LANBench - http://www.zachsaw.com/?pg=lanbench_tcp_network_benchmark

Start Latencymon, start Lanbench, click listen, click test. It takes about 15 seconds for the programm to bench the network and you are done.

Tell me what your highest measured interrupt to process latency reported by latencymon is.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Regards


----------



## Offler

Can you provide screenshot?


----------



## Nawafwabs

Dy14n said:


> anyone whos tweaked stuff for ages and isn't getting anywhere move case fans from motherboard to the psi directly through molex connectors. For me this solved my issues. Originally everything was fine till I updated my bios a year or so ago whilst reinstalling. spent hundreds of hours tweaking 7, 8.1 and 10. good thing you can only perceive the minor tweaks if your system is already screwed. ps I feel like core affinity is back in meta. Been having some success with it. also if you haven't tweaked your networking that makes a world of difference. Disabling rsc is the most important one.
> 
> I've tweaked several computers owned by some fps players and they could notice the difference so at least I'm not delusional.


case fans and cpu fan or only case fans ?

what`s rsc?


----------



## whood

Nawafwabs said:


> case fans and cpu fan or only case fans ?
> 
> what`s rsc?


Receive Segment Coalescing. It's for Windows 8/8.1/10.


----------



## Ainalcar

Offler said:


> Can you provide screenshot?


a screenshot of what? latencymon report? Here's what it looks like when i just start up cs without entering a match (in idle im on 3 - 15us most of the time and never over 50us)

https://i.imgur.com/weICESZ.png


----------



## x7007

whood said:


> Receive Segment Coalescing. It's for Windows 8/8.1/10.


RSC is only when you have the right network adapter that support it from it's Advanced tab in the Device Manager driver menu.

Also you need not to have any WFP Filters installed. that means any program/software or Firewall that want to detect and pass through the network driver like ESET 11 Internet Security , any firewall software, any software that scan packets like WinCap/Wireshark , Adguard . any protection software that uses Firewall expect the windows firewall.


PS C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0> Get-NetOffloadGlobalSetting


ReceiveSideScaling : Enabled
ReceiveSegmentCoalescing : Enabled
Chimney : Enabled
TaskOffload : Enabled
NetworkDirect : Enabled
NetworkDirectAcrossIPSubnets : Blocked
PacketCoalescingFilter : Enabled



















If you have any software install it will say anything else expect No Failure , or when it's not enabled and such or driver not supported.


----------



## Offler

Nawafwabs said:


> case fans and cpu fan or only case fans ?
> 
> what`s rsc?





x7007 said:


> RSC is only when you have the right network adapter that support it from it's Advanced tab in the Device Manager driver menu.
> 
> Also you need not to have any WFP Filters installed. that means any program/software or Firewall that want to detect and pass through the network driver like ESET 11 Internet Security , any firewall software, any software that scan packets like WinCap/Wireshark , Adguard . any protection software that uses Firewall expect the windows firewall.
> 
> 
> PS C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0> Get-NetOffloadGlobalSetting
> 
> 
> ReceiveSideScaling : Enabled
> ReceiveSegmentCoalescing : Enabled
> Chimney : Enabled
> TaskOffload : Enabled
> NetworkDirect : Enabled
> NetworkDirectAcrossIPSubnets : Blocked
> PacketCoalescingFilter : Enabled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have any software install it will say anything else expect No Failure , or when it's not enabled and such or driver not supported.


If its feature similar to Intel's DMA Coalescing, then disable it (in case you are doing gaming/low latency setup).




Ainalcar said:


> a screenshot of what? latencymon report? Here's what it looks like when i just start up cs without entering a match (in idle im on 3 - 15us most of the time and never over 50us)
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/weICESZ.png


Then its OK. Network - related driver may go as up as 60us.


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> If its feature similar to Intel's DMA Coalescing, then disable it (in case you are doing gaming/low latency setup).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then its OK. Network - related driver may go as up as 60us.


That's the thing .. it doesn't effect the latency same as Large Recive Offload LRO which RSC is the upgraded version of LRO


----------



## Blameless

For actual network latency at lower bandwidths (relative to the NIC) disabling everything that offloads work, or combines packets or interrupts, is usually best. This will increase CPU load and DPCs, but if your network driver isn't trash, it's still usually advantageous.

Personally, my Intel USB 3.0 controllers are the worst culprits for DPC latency on most of my setups. I could disable XHCI, but I have gobs of USB 3.0 storage, so I won't, especially not for an imperceptible improvement in DPC latency (which isn't bad even with USB 3.0 on my setups anyway).


----------



## Ainalcar

Offler said:


> Then its OK. Network - related driver may go as up as 60us.


Did you even check the screenshot? The latency shows over 4 thousands microseconds and it's written in red that the system is having trouble. How can that be ok?

I'm no stranger to these things and have tried a lot including installing windows 7 because it supports dca. In win 7 the problem is not as persistent but still present.


----------



## Offler

Blameless said:


> For actual network latency at lower bandwidths (relative to the NIC) disabling everything that offloads work, or combines packets or interrupts, is usually best. This will increase CPU load and DPCs, but if your network driver isn't trash, it's still usually advantageous.


I tested it with my particuar setup and there is literally no difference, in both DPC and packet processing speed.

But I clearly enabled RSS with 4x, it increased CPU utilization for gaming in a very positive way.

To ainalcar:
Dont run it along with 3d engine. Thats why its all red.


----------



## Ainalcar

Offler said:


> To ainalcar:
> Dont run it along with 3d engine. Thats why its all red.


What kind of 3d engine am I supposed to be running while benchmarking my NIC?

You irritate me so much, first you try to give me advice without even taking a look at the screenshot (how do you even do that?) and now you try to give me another tip that i can't even begin to comprehend how you came about.

All I asked for was for someone on Win10 to run the lan benchmark and share the latencymon result.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Ainalcar said:


> Hey guys, I seem to be having a problem with my Networking under Windows 10 os.
> 
> Can someone of you who is also on windows 10 compare the results with me to see if it's just me or it's Windows 10 in general. (I've seen some threads on this where people confirm it's windows but since there is very little information and complaints I am having doubts)
> 
> When benching my Network Interface Latencymon shows values up to 60 thousand Microseconds (?!).
> 
> To test it on your system you would need Windows 10,
> 
> Latencymon - http://www.resplendence.com/downloads
> 
> and something like LANBench - http://www.zachsaw.com/?pg=lanbench_tcp_network_benchmark
> 
> Start Latencymon, start Lanbench, click listen, click test. It takes about 15 seconds for the programm to bench the network and you are done.
> 
> Tell me what your highest measured interrupt to process latency reported by latencymon is.
> 
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards


https://i.imgur.com/h9Euubr.png


----------



## Ainalcar

Nawafwabs said:


> https://i.imgur.com/h9Euubr.png


Thank you for the effort, but you should also click the "Test" Button on the Lan benchmark or the benchamark doesn't start.

Regards


----------



## MooMoo

Ainalcar said:


> Thank you for the effort, but you should also click the "Test" Button on the Lan benchmark or the benchamark doesn't start.
> 
> Regards


This made me lol


----------



## Nawafwabs

Ainalcar said:


> Thank you for the effort, but you should also click the "Test" Button on the Lan benchmark or the benchamark doesn't start.
> 
> Regards


im so sorry i will do it again


----------



## Ainalcar

Nawafwabs said:


> im so sorry i will do it again


no problem, thank you


----------



## Nawafwabs

Ainalcar said:


> no problem, thank you


windows 7

https://i.imgur.com/tNxaYr8.jpg


----------



## Ainalcar

Nawafwabs said:


> windows 7
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/tNxaYr8.jpg


ok thank you, 
it seems that it's a common occurrence then that it behaves this way and shouldn't be a real issue under normal circumstances since you won't ever achieve such speed in real world.


----------



## RamenRider

Nawafwabs said:


> windows 7
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/tNxaYr8.jpg


Hey Nawa, since you've been on this thread alot, what is the best way to install windows? The thread search function does not work anymore. Does shadyshade's method have any validity?



shadyshade said:


> Hello guys! Im register here only to tell you 1 THING THAT U CANT IMAGINE.
> I spent 6 month for searching how to fix floaty mouse on input lag. Spent 3k$ for 2 pcs,motherboards etc. You all just trying to install ur modern hardware in legacy mode.But,can you just try put ur devicse with Windows installition in your pc and just let windows installl with only one option disabled in BIOS ( USB LEGACY SUPPORT). AND BOOOOOOOOM UR MOUSE LIKE IN 2005. Trust me.i was semi-pro in CSGO and proplayer in LOL.I know how its impossible to play with floaty mouse.


----------



## x7007

RamenRider said:


> Hey Nawa, since you've been on this thread alot, what is the best way to install windows? The thread search function does not work anymore. Does shadyshade's method have any validity?




but you can disable legacy usb support when ever you want. you . also if you disable it as far ai remember you cant install windows from usb it wont detect the usb.


----------



## Nawafwabs

RamenRider said:


> Hey Nawa, since you've been on this thread alot, what is the best way to install windows? The thread search function does not work anymore. Does shadyshade's method have any validity?


the best way is install windows on lagecy not Uefi 

and disable windows 8 whql support and windows 7 installation in bois

shadyshade's method for me not work and i dont see a difference


----------



## PurpleChef

Nawafwabs said:


> the best way is install windows on lagecy not Uefi
> 
> and disable windows 8 whql support and windows 7 installation in bois
> 
> shadyshade's method for me not work and i dont see a difference


Alot of people dont even have a cd-rom in thier computer anymore. GL installing from usb thumb drive, trouble inc? Anyone actually burn cds anymore?
and alot of ppl only have usb mouse/keyboard. no hardcore ps2 fans


----------



## Calypto

I know this is against practice here, but I am stumped. The only device connected to USB3 is my mouse, yet when I move it around while running latencymon, the execution time goes up on the USB2 driver instead of USB3. Why is that?


----------



## Unknownm

Calypto said:


> I know this is against practice here, but I am stumped. The only device connected to USB3 is my mouse, yet when I move it around while running latencymon, the execution time goes up on the USB2 driver instead of USB3. Why is that?


Maybe the mouse doesn't support 3.0. I'm 99% sure 3.0 USB is backwards with 2.0 and even 1.0

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Offler

Calypto said:


> I know this is against practice here, but I am stumped. The only device connected to USB3 is my mouse, yet when I move it around while running latencymon, the execution time goes up on the USB2 driver instead of USB3. Why is that?





Unknownm said:


> Maybe the mouse doesn't support 3.0. I'm 99% sure 3.0 USB is backwards with 2.0 and even 1.0
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


Disable USB 2.0 drivers completely, and check again.

Also I found one thing which is in favor of using USB 2.0 over 3.0, but also gives favor of PS/2 over USB 1 and 2. When i turned around in CryEngine game, while using USB 3.0 mouse game paused when it was loading objects. When using USB 2.0 or PS/2 first my movement was completed, and loading of objects followed afterwards.


So conclusion on my tests from few months ago is:
Avoid usb 2.0 if possible, use USB 3.0 for storage or other devices. For mouse or keyboard use PS/2 if available, and USB 2.0 in all other situations.


----------



## Unknownm

Offler said:


> Disable USB 2.0 drivers completely, and check again.
> 
> Also I found one thing which is in favor of using USB 2.0 over 3.0, but also gives favor of PS/2 over USB 1 and 2. When i turned around in CryEngine game, while using USB 3.0 mouse game paused when it was loading objects. When using USB 2.0 or PS/2 first my movement was completed, and loading of objects followed afterwards.
> 
> 
> So conclusion on my tests from few months ago is:
> Avoid usb 2.0 if possible, use USB 3.0 for storage or other devices. For mouse or keyboard use PS/2 if available, and USB 2.0 in all other situations.


Can we overclock ps/2 mouse... I mean 125hz is default and I'm so used to 1000hz mouse already. 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Offler

Unknownm said:


> Can we overclock ps/2 mouse... I mean 125hz is default and I'm so used to 1000hz mouse already.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


I have set my PS/2 to 200Hz, which is the topmost limit, and extended size of associated PS2 cache. I did it throught registry editing. (Dont have link for that).

But getting PS/2 devices is quite complicated nowadays...


----------



## Unknownm

Offler said:


> I have set my PS/2 to 200Hz, which is the topmost limit, and extended size of associated PS2 cache. I did it throught registry editing. (Dont have link for that).
> 
> But getting PS/2 devices is quite complicated nowadays...


USB to ps/2. Reg hack to 200hz? 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Calypto

I uninstalled my USB3 drivers altogether and put my mouse on its own controller on a dedicated USB2 hub. Everything else is on the other controller. I alleviated IRQ sharing using MSI mode and my gameplay was a lot smoother in UT2004. I had to lower my sensitivity a lot to compensate for the changes. I also disabled some hidden devices in device manager like the WAN Miniports (about 6) since I have no use for them. I also run my games in realtime priority if my processor can handle it without stuttering. It definitely makes a difference as far as frame times go: lower frame times and they are more stable. The input lag consequently decreases.

Does anyone know how Ryzen is for latency? I'm thinking of upgrading and see that intel processors stutter under load. I know infinity fabric is limited to RAM speed which seems like a bad idea for latency, but I really hate stuttering.


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Already posted to Nvidia Forum too, found something interesting. My mouse / keyboard is ok for 2 days. 

------

Check this - Nvidia Control Panel 

3D settings / programs 

Why some windows things using GPU - and some of them's power settings are different and you can'T change....











forexample that servise name is in regedit ShellHWDetection

what is this?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services

find ShellHWDetection an change start to 4

2 means auto start
3 means manual start
4 means disable (will not start)


restart PC , it'll not start and will not use GPU again...











After this, my mouse is ok for now!?!? try this guys...

And check the other's power plan.. If something is different than "optimal" change them to optimal..

---


----------



## Unknownm

DJ_OXyGeNe_8 said:


> Already posted to Nvidia Forum too, found something interesting. My mouse / keyboard is ok for 2 days.
> 
> ------
> 
> Check this - Nvidia Control Panel
> 
> 3D settings / programs
> 
> Why some windows things using GPU - and some of them's power settings are different and you can'T change....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forexample that servise name is in regedit ShellHWDetection
> 
> what is this?
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services
> 
> find ShellHWDetection an change start to 4
> 
> 2 means auto start
> 3 means manual start
> 4 means disable (will not start)
> 
> 
> restart PC , it'll not start and will not use GPU again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After this, my mouse is ok for now!?!? try this guys...
> 
> And check the other's power plan.. If something is different than "optimal" change them to optimal..
> 
> ---


The Shell Hardware Detection (ShellHWDetection) service monitors and provides notification for AutoPlay hardware events. AutoPlay is a feature that detects content such as pictures, music, or video files on a removable storage device. AutoPlay then automatically starts applications to play or display that content, which simplifies the use of specialized peripheral devices such as MP3 players and digital photo readers. The service also makes it easier for users because they do not need to know beforehand what software applications are needed to access various content types.

AutoPlay supports a variety of media content types and applications. Independent hardware vendors (IHVs) and independent software vendors (ISVs) can extend this support to include their devices and applications. A user can configure AutoPlay for any combination of pictures, music files, and video.

Media and device types that are supported by AutoPlay include:

Removable storage devices, including a USB flash drive, an external or removable drive, a CF card, or other types of external storage devices that can be easily removed from a computer
PC cards
External hot-plug USB or 1394 fixed drives
Supported content types, which include:
Pictures (.jpg, .bmp, .gif, and .tif files)
Music files (.mp3 and .wma files)
Video (.mpg and .asf files)

If the service stops, the Hardware AutoPlay functionality does not work and shell performance is also affected.

This service is installed by default on Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2, and its startup type is Automatic.

When the Shell Hardware Detection service is started in its default configuration, it logs on by using the Local System account.

The Shell Hardware Detection service is dependent upon the following system components:

Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
DCOM Server Process Launcher
RPC Endpoint Mapper

The following system component is dependent upon the Shell Hardware Detection Service:

Windows Image Acquisition (WIA)

https://www.windows-security.org/windows-service/shell-hardware-detection

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Calypto

I wrote a script that starts my game with realtime priority and runs on the last 3 cores of my CPU (after doing some testing this was the best combination). The script then closes explorer.exe after 10 seconds. Albeit extreme, it did give me lower frame times and more stability due to having one fewer process sharing valuable CPU time. For any modern game with multicore support, messing with affinity will probably lower performance so you can remove the /affinity E portion.



Code:


start /Realtime /Affinity E E:\UT2004\System\UT2004-win64.exe -nogamma
CHOICE /N /C YN /T 10 /D Y >NUL
taskkill /f /im "explorer.exe"

Do ctrl+shift+esc to open task manager and re-open explorer when you're done.



Spoiler


----------



## Unknownm

Calypto said:


> I wrote a script that starts my game with realtime priority and runs on the last 3 cores of my CPU (after doing some testing this was the best combination). The script then closes explorer.exe after 10 seconds. Albeit extreme, it did give me lower frame times and more stability due to having one fewer process sharing valuable CPU time. For any modern game with multicore support, messing with affinity will probably lower performance so you can remove the /affinity E portion.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> start /Realtime /Affinity E E:\UT2004\System\UT2004-win64.exe -nogamma
> CHOICE /N /C YN /T 10 /D Y >NUL
> taskkill /f /im "explorer.exe"
> 
> Do ctrl+shift+esc to open task manager and re-open explorer when you're done.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Nice! 

Although process lasso will make this process easier.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## RamenRider

Unknownm said:


> Nice!
> 
> Although process lasso will make this process easier.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


Process lasso is basically a game booster right? It does the same job as a booster but is for any app? And what do you mean PL can do the same thing, it can close explorer for you?(lol I used to do this back in my league of legends days)

Also I can't find much difference between trial version and paid version, probably just specific app priority customizations, but I think I can just use prio for that.


----------



## Unknownm

RamenRider said:


> Process lasso is basically a game booster right? It does the same job as a booster but is for any app? And what do you mean PL can do the same thing, it can close explorer for you?(lol I used to do this back in my league of legends days)
> 
> Also I can't find much difference between trial version and paid version, probably just specific app priority customizations, but I think I can just use prio for that.


It could be a game Booster if that's your intentions.

Like yourself I manage my processes with custom properties but instead of cmd bat files with commands, PL remembers all my settings. Example: afterburner, RTSS, hwmonitor are affinity core 3 (last core) with idle priority and low I/O that way less idle load is on core0,1,2. 

Also another benefit of PL is Probalance which means one process decides to take 100% cpu, probalance kicks in and throttles the % so your computer remains slowdown free. Also you can exclude exes from this setting that way they get 100% cpu always and other apps respect probalance. Aka games, video rendering, stress testing etc..

Although it comes with a price! I can't remember how much mine was. It'a worth it just for ability of it remembering your applications settings. 

Let me upload a screenshot when I get my pc (on my android)

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

EDIT: Uploaded


----------



## andreeeeee

Unknownm said:


> It could be a game Booster if that's your intentions.
> 
> Like yourself I manage my processes with custom properties but instead of cmd bat files with commands, PL remembers all my settings. Example: afterburner, RTSS, hwmonitor are affinity core 3 (last core) with idle priority and low I/O that way less idle load is on core0,1,2.
> 
> Also another benefit of PL is Probalance which means one process decides to take 100% cpu, probalance kicks in and throttles the % so your computer remains slowdown free. Also you can exclude exes from this setting that way they get 100% cpu always and other apps respect probalance. Aka games, video rendering, stress testing etc..
> 
> Although it comes with a price! I can't remember how much mine was. It'a worth it just for ability of it remembering your applications settings.
> 
> Let me upload a screenshot when I get my pc (on my android)
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
> 
> EDIT: Uploaded


I'm using Process Lasso too and I like it very much.

Unknownm, could you tell me how do you tune the I/O priority when you're gaming?
I have no idea of what it does...


----------



## Unknownm

andreeeeee said:


> I'm using Process Lasso too and I like it very much.
> 
> Unknownm, could you tell me how do you tune the I/O priority when you're gaming?
> I have no idea of what it does...


I always thought I/O priority was disk network USB etc. For a game exe I always set mine high with high cpu priority and exclude it from probalance 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## andreeeeee

Unknownm said:


> I always thought I/O priority was disk network USB etc. For a game exe I always set mine high with high cpu priority and exclude it from probalance
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


Thank you!


----------



## RamenRider

I can't seem to find a difference between Bitsum Highest and Highest Performance power settings.


----------



## Unknownm

RamenRider said:


> I can't seem to find a difference between Bitsum Highest and Highest Performance power settings.


“Performance Mode invokes the ‘Bitsum Highest Performance’ power plan that keeps your CPU ready to execute code at all times. Otherwise, you would cope with that extra bit of latency seen while unparking cores, or ramping up the CPU frequency, which degrades performance of bursting CPU loads – the most common type.

For a long time, Bitsum provided the knowledge and capacity for users to customize their power plans, and automate when those power plans are induced.

With ParkControl, we revealed hidden CPU settings that control core parking, and wrote about how much core parking and CPU frequency scaling can affect performance of real-world CPU loads. Put simply, these power saving technologies work well at conserving energy, but come with a trade-off.

When the CPU is down-clocked or cores parked, it is not ready to execute code, and thus some degree of ramp-up time is required when new code needs executed. This especially impacts performance of bursting CPU loads.

Process Lasso offers a power plan pre-configured for maximal performance. When in this new Bitsum Highest Performance power plan, your CPU always remains ready to execute new code. Core parking is disabled and the CPU is always running at its maximum frequency. You can automate when it is induced with Process Lasso’s Performance Mode, or you can use the default application power profiles feature.

Thus, Performance Mode will induce this new highest performance power plan, and also make a few tweaks to the behavior of ProBalance – which will keep background processes from interfering with your real-time operations.

This technology is derived from our ParkControl freeware, on whose page you can get more information. A screenshot of it is below. The difference is that in Lasso, everything is already configured and automated for you.”

https://bitsum.com/bhp/




Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## RamenRider

So all of this makes game mode unnecessary doesn't it? Game mode is essentially a game booster as well?


----------



## Unknownm

RamenRider said:


> So all of this makes game mode unnecessary doesn't it? Game mode is essentially a game booster as well?


No as it says 

"Thus, Performance Mode will induce this new highest performance power plan, and also make a few tweaks to the behavior of ProBalance – which will keep background processes from interfering with your real-time operations"

If you don't use probalance it won't be useful 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## RamenRider

Just to be clear, we are talking about Windows 10's Game Mode right?


----------



## Unknownm

RamenRider said:


> Just to be clear, we are talking about Windows 10's Game Mode right?


No windows 10 gaming mode has nothing to do with Process lasso, probalance and gaming mode (inside process lasso). 

"Gaming mode" process lasso says it tweaks probalance. Whether it actually decreases frametimes or increase framerate is still unknown I do it to respect probalance.

Regarding windows 10 gaming mode in settings, I'm not sure if it does anything. Honestly after every fresh install of Windows I remove game mode and game bar through reg tweaks and group policy. 


Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## x7007

Did anyone notice after the Windows 10 April update - Spring update the number are a bit weird/different than before ?

Before you could get 1.0003 ms time but now it's 1 ms. now without HPET Enabled in my AMD 1950x bios it says 0.9989 ms . I'm not sure if I should keep it disabled in the bios because this time doesn't seems right compare to my laptop which is 1 ms .

HPET IS NOT enabled in the windows on either tests . only in bios with the INTEL


----------



## Timecard

My mouse movement felt different (slower/smoother, less floaty?) on the latest Windows 10 April 2018 update, they broke (random drifting) with m_rawinput 0 in the last build (Fall Creators Update) and were supposed to fix it in the current. However I'm using raw input 1 now and can still feel a difference, will play more this weekend.


----------



## Offler

Spectre/Meltdown fixes works in a manner that synchronization between potential attacker script and CPU L1 cache has to be broken, so the method wont work.

HPET is a factor too, but I still maintain it should be enabled.

On Intel, more de-syncing is needed to protect CPU and system, and more CPU performance is lost due this. On AMD it actually does not matter as AMD is safe from Meltdown, and implementing Spectre fixes in a manner as they work on Intel is not viable.

Result is ... however that Intel and AMD would be completely out of sync.


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> Spectre/Meltdown fixes works in a manner that synchronization between potential attacker script and CPU L1 cache has to be broken, so the method wont work.
> 
> HPET is a factor too, but I still maintain it should be enabled.
> 
> On Intel, more de-syncing is needed to protect CPU and system, and more CPU performance is lost due this. On AMD it actually does not matter as AMD is safe from Meltdown, and implementing Spectre fixes in a manner as they work on Intel is not viable.
> 
> Result is ... however that Intel and AMD would be completely out of sync.



So would you enable HPET in the the POWER menu , in the bios ? keep it enabled ?


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> So would you enable HPET in the the POWER menu , in the bios ? keep it enabled ?


For AMD: Enable by default.
If you use that PC for rather old game (2010 or older) disable - both OS and BIOS.


For Intel its more complicated.

HPET works on higher frequencies than RTC clock, so for effective de-syncing the script you might need less time. But it depends whether the virus, or attacker script uses RTC or HPET. Problem is that tests done by anandtech shows rather a an error in measurement when HPET is disabled.

I dont know... I would take test system, patch it against Spectre, and test the specific app I need.


----------



## Nawafwabs

las windows update 1803 , so slow and aim feel heavy


----------



## DJ_OXyGeNe_8

Guys, I wrote to Nvidia forum, my problem solved


https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/91/

check posts - 1356 1357


----------



## x7007

DJ_OXyGeNe_8 said:


> Guys, I wrote to Nvidia forum, my problem solved
> 
> 
> https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/91/
> 
> check posts - 1356 1357



But how service that doesn't run on default can affect the mouse ?


----------



## softskiller

Shortcut for restarting graphics driver - mouse feels better after:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8juxgz/tip_try_this_keyboard_shortcut_to_restart/

Do you notice a difference?


----------



## MooMoo

softskiller said:


> Shortcut for restarting graphics driver - mouse feels better after:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8juxgz/tip_try_this_keyboard_shortcut_to_restart/
> 
> Do you notice a difference?


No difference here.

And looks like it doesn't even restart it:
"The WIN+CTRL+SHIFT+B keycombo saves out part of the dispdiag log (ring buffer) and queues up the data to upload through telemetry indicating the customer had a black screen.

"B" == Blackscreen

The original intent was a diagnostic tool for bugs in 3rd-party GPU drivers where the machine is churning along but there is nothing on screen. Pressing it when you don't have a blackscreen or similar issue adds noise to the system. A driver reset/recovery is a likely side-effect but not the primary intent and not guranteed.

Tablet systems without a physical keyboard need an alternate approach since an on-screen keyboard wouldn't be useful if the screen is blank. So you can achieve the same thing on those systems by alternating Volume Up and Volume Down 6 times within a second or simultaneously pressing both 3 times within 2 seconds."


----------



## PurpleChef

Windows 10 Pro Version 1803

Print screen at lowest number lul
Dont know what the random mouse hz jump is all about tho...

Using usb soundcard btw


----------



## x7007

PurpleChef said:


> Windows 10 Pro Version 1803
> 
> Print screen at lowest number lul
> Dont know what the random mouse hz jump is all about tho...
> 
> Using usb soundcard btw



I reached 0.1 sometimes and it was more than 1 hr test. doing 1 minute test is nothing to even compare to detecting an issue . what's better is having the computer LOADED with 100% CPU + 100% Network + Music/Sound playing then you will see how you system is doing. remember, DPC is reaching the target of not having Stuttering/Cutting randomly, finding what Driver/SystemFile causing issue which being deflected from Software or Bug in the Drivers / Bios settings or Hardware Incompatibility and Hardware Issues. 

For me I've found out it's not drivers that caused me issue, but actually memory timing, I've being using T1 with Quad Channel and it's not that great, the memory can't or just tries to work even if no errors , the timings itself is optimizing with the system because it refreshing every X time and Updating every Y time, so if something is not in the right timing it just goes crazy with the DPC as nothing works correctly.

For my Desktop that's the memory 100% , with T1 I don't have high DPC even with all the load I told you to check . my download is 500/10 and I check it with flash speed test which causes very very high cpu including the ESET antivirus+web protection that causing it to go even more cpu usage . even all this and using Cool&Quiet with Minimum CPU % set to 1 , I still getting 33-10 DPC while doing all the tests. 

I succeed couple of times getting very low DPC on my Laptop but there is always something , driver , windows update , that changes it and it goes crazy again . I never find what it is .


----------



## Avalar

Wish I hadn't updated to 1803 yesterday. Somehow, everything feels a little slower, and it's tilting me. Won't even let me go back to the previous update, either... Figures.


----------



## Avalar

PurpleChef said:


> Windows 10 Pro Version 1803
> 
> Print screen at lowest number lul
> Dont know what the random mouse hz jump is all about tho...
> 
> Using usb soundcard btw


Wish I could get numbers like that too lol. Mine fluctuates between 30ish to 80ish with all my usual stuff running. I know some disable Cortana entirely to reduce lag, but that also removes the search function in the Start Menu, which I use. I've removed all the Win 10 bloat apps and whatnot that I don't use, disabled automatic updates, excluded graphics driver updates out of the Windows updates, disabled HPET and turned off power saving features for my mobo. Am I missing anything? According to LatencyMon, my graphics drivers is still what's causing the most stress, but that's normal, isn't it?

Ryzen CPU and NVIDIA GPU btw.


----------



## x7007

Avalar said:


> Wish I could get numbers like that too lol. Mine fluctuates between 30ish to 80ish with all my usual stuff running. I know some disable Cortana entirely to reduce lag, but that also removes the search function in the Start Menu, which I use. I've removed all the Win 10 bloat apps and whatnot that I don't use, disabled automatic updates, excluded graphics driver updates out of the Windows updates, disabled HPET and turned off power saving features for my mobo. Am I missing anything? According to LatencyMon, my graphics drivers is still what's causing the most stress, but that's normal, isn't it?
> 
> Ryzen CPU and NVIDIA GPU btw.


30-80 is fine, just forget about it.. 0.1 or 30 won't matter AT ALL>


----------



## Offler

On Windows 7 x64 was the upgrade beneficial. Everything feels a lot more smoother, mianly the operations of graphics.


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> On Windows 7 x64 was the upgrade beneficial. Everything feels a lot more smoother, mianly the operations of graphics.


Windows 7 x64 is crap now , compare to windows 10 . It is exactly the same in performance. you just need to set it right with the right drivers and the right bios settings. stop compare windows to windows. It's the same.


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> Windows 7 x64 is crap now , compare to windows 10 . It is exactly the same in performance. you just need to set it right with the right drivers and the right bios settings. stop compare windows to windows. It's the same.



Actually comparing windows to windows is the best thing you can do, as you might see if OS progresses or regresses. However according posts here, and all over the internet, W10 is crap because people always fear the next update.


----------



## Calypto

What should I do about USB2? It appears that it's emulated from USB3. How can I directly use USB2 on AM4/X470, or ideally completely disable USB3 and use USB2 on Windows 7/Ryzen?









And last but not least, the nvidia driver is causing problems. I managed to fix it on the last month of my Intel system, but before that I had the same problem and I'm not sure how I fixed it. However, my average latency is still extremely high.







(longest execution, ms)









My latency on my optimized Intel system:


----------



## Confesser

Unknownm said:


> With so much updating with preview builds. I was tired of having to re-disable services one drive etc so I made a bat file to run with every update.
> 
> If you guys are interested here is a <a class="attachment " href="/attachments/45017" title="">TWEAKS.zip 2k .zip file


Link has expired
Please re-upload, thank you！


----------



## Unknownm

Confesser said:


> Link has expired
> Please re-upload, thank you!


Give me a day I'll send the link 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Unknownm

Confesser said:


> Link has expired
> Please re-upload, thank you!


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xpG_tYVZejhfpkbPK7FIVG0XgxQ_C2gk/view?usp=sharing


----------



## PurpleChef

Unknownm said:


> Give me a day I'll send the link
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


AdobeRGB1998.icc Are you using this as standard icc profile? 
icc profiles dosnt apply to fullscreen applications, does it? like games?


----------



## Offler

PurpleChef said:


> AdobeRGB1998.icc Are you using this as standard icc profile?
> icc profiles dosnt apply to fullscreen applications, does it? like games?


You can set ICC profile in a monitor settings since ... ... ... Windows 2000 or even earlier depending if the driver of the monitor allows to load those ICC profiles.

Most games - however - set graphic profiles of their own, mainly in the fullscreen mode.


----------



## PurpleChef

Offler said:


> You can set ICC profile in a monitor settings since ... ... ... Windows 2000 or even earlier depending if the driver of the monitor allows to load those ICC profiles.
> 
> Most games - however - set graphic profiles of their own, mainly in the fullscreen mode.


Set a windows icc profile yes. what are you talking about loading icc in a monitor setting ? i do know how to change icc profile in windows... ... ...
if games ignore it its meh...


----------



## vf-

PurpleChef said:


> Set a windows icc profile yes. what are you talking about loading icc in a monitor setting ? i do know how to change icc profile in windows... ... ...
> if games ignore it its meh...


They don't ignore them.


----------



## Offler

PurpleChef said:


> Set a windows icc profile yes. what are you talking about loading icc in a monitor setting ? i do know how to change icc profile in windows... ... ...
> if games ignore it its meh...


Yes its a monitor setting, and you can set it up, or in some cases to use ICC profile provided by the manufacturer in "Control panel > Appearance > Display > Calibrate color" or in advanced settings of the monitor in device manager (might not be available for all displays).



vf- said:


> They don't ignore them.


If the game runs in desktop, game may or may not change gamma intensity. Most settings are not affected, mainly color balance.


----------



## x7007

I think I figure the stuttering issue for everyone with Intel CPU.

You need Software from Microsoft

Microsoft Autoruns.exe
From here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/autoruns
Or here https://filehippo.com/download_autoruns/

Programs you need to go to Device Manager and Show Hidden Devices go to SYSTEM DEVICES and Uninstall the WDT device including the Driver in the box selection.
https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/device-manager-show-hidden-devices.png


There are 3 conflicting drivers on the new intel motherboards and 2 on the old ones.
1. Intel Watchdog Timer Driver Intel WDT ( This usually installed from windows update or Intel Chipset Software or Intel XTU _Xtreme Tuning Utitliy_ )
( ! Picture was taken from the internet just look for the Intel WDT ! )
http://i65.tinypic.com/zkg35t.jpg

2. Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework
!Now if you have the drivers installed properly and updated this shouldn't be on a section of it's own . Those Devices installed should be on System Devices in the Device Manager!
This is where it shouldn't be because of driver not updated usually ( Driver Version 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 )
https://images.drivereasy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/img_593f87b164aea.png

This is where it should be ( Driver Version 8.3 )
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...899778392064/unknown.png?width=788&height=578

3.Intel® Management Engine Consumer Driver (IMEI)
This is a tricky one. for every motherboard there is specific firmware that installed, every motherboard will be different usually firmware update won't update this as you usually need to update it alone which is dangerous and hard. but we won't touch the firmware only the driver. here the newest is not the best but specific driver for the motherboard version is the best. not sure how you can check it , usually there is a software called Intel MEInfo Tools , but there are many version of this for specific firmware and chipset and I'm not sure which one will work.

So try to get lower version from Windows Update Catalog and start from there , every time you update restart computer and check for stuttering or crashes.

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=Intel® Management Engine


Other then that if there are still issues it could be other software or other driver conflict or not updated or wrong version which I cannot know if it specific to your computer.

But it's guaranteed this devices are causing stuttering.


----------



## Offler

Hm. All of these are related to DRMs in some way. Certain features might not work if you tamper with them.


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> Hm. All of these are related to DRMs in some way. Certain features might not work if you tamper with them.



Where did you get this information ?


----------



## phazers

What the best driver for WIN10 1000 series right now? Anybody experienced with that? Seeing no mention of it in this particular thread. Except the GTA5 driver but that is not for the 1000 series.


----------



## MooMoo

phazers said:


> What the best driver for WIN10 1000 series right now? Anybody experienced with that? Seeing no mention of it in this particular thread. Except the GTA5 driver but that is not for the 1000 series.


1000 series of what?


----------



## phazers

MooMoo said:


> 1000 series of what?



Nvidia: 1060 / 1070 / 1080.


----------



## Calypto

For those with Ryzen, you should disable a CCX to lower your DPC latency.

http://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1699850-high-average-dpc-latency.html#post27494202


----------



## Avalar

Calypto said:


> For those with Ryzen, you should disable a CCX to lower your DPC latency.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1699850-high-average-dpc-latency.html#post27494202


Any sort of side effects? Never even heard of the setting, or what it does. I haven't been researching it, but..


----------



## Calypto

Avalar said:


> Any sort of side effects? Never even heard of the setting, or what it does. I haven't been researching it, but..


Yes, you only have half the cores, but for gaming-only it is worth the latency benefits. The setting is called 4+0. Just make sure your game is running on physical cores. That goes for i7s.

https://www.techpowerup.com/img/17-03-27/c5a00eaee373.jpg


----------



## Avalar

Calypto said:


> Yes, you only have half the cores, but for gaming-only it is worth the latency benefits. The setting is called 4+0. Just make sure your game is running on physical cores. That goes for i7s.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/img/17-03-27/c5a00eaee373.jpg


Would it be worth it, though? I'd imagine it would be good for games like CSGO, but it would be a hassle to turn it on again every time I want to play a more taxing game.


----------



## Calypto

Yes it is worth it as most games don't use more than 4 cores anyway. I haven't looked into other schedulers, but the Windows scheduler does not play well with Ryzen as far as latency and work distribution go. I'm afraid that even with proper scheduling, the latency will still affect time-sensitive applications. I just hope that monolithic dies won't be phased out by mutli-die CPUs, as they seem to be cheaper to produce. My conclusion is that Intel is better for gaming, audio, etc, despite how much I hate them.

Other things:
Disabling SMT while having a CCX disabled did not give me any significant DPC latency decrease. The CPU runs a bit cooler, but not as cool as you'd expect with only 4 cores running.


----------



## Nastya

As it's a crucial tool to this thread, FYI LatencyMon was updated to 6.70 and received a couple bug fixes.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_whatsnew


----------



## Unknownm

Hey everyone I found a FREE alternative to Process Lasso that is integrated in taskmgr. It also enables TCP/IP Window 

http://www.prnwatch.com/prio/


----------



## Nawafwabs

i limit numbers of instences by process lasso to 2 

this made my gameplay fast and smooth 

i test yesterday , so i want to share it with you guys


----------



## phazers

Nawafwabs said:


> i limit numbers of instences by process lasso to 2
> 
> this made my gameplay fast and smooth
> 
> i test yesterday , so i want to share it with you guys


Care to elaborate? I don't understand what you mean with instances?

And how do you set them to 2?


----------



## x7007

phazers said:


> Care to elaborate? I don't understand what you mean with instances?
> 
> And how do you set them to 2?



You mean 2 Cores Core 0,2 ? or instance means 2 EXE , means you ran it 2 times ? 

What does it actually do ?


----------



## phazers

x7007 said:


> You mean 2 Cores Core 0,2 ? or instance means 2 EXE , means you ran it 2 times ?
> 
> What does it actually do ?


I think the poster means: For example Within ProcessLasso: ( Right Click ) Chrome > Limited number of instances > 2 

That's what I found on my own. What it all means no clue that's why I asked to elaborate.


----------



## x7007

phazers said:


> I think the poster means: For example Within ProcessLasso: ( Right Click ) Chrome > Limited number of instances > 2
> 
> That's what I found on my own. What it all means no clue that's why I asked to elaborate.



Why would that do anything ? https://bitsum.com/server/features/


Limit number of instances of an app
Instance limits, limit the number of instances a process may have per user session, or for the whole PC — Great for licensing compliance!


Go read : https://bitsum.com/docs/pl/faq.htm


----------



## Calypto

SMT/Hyper Threading should be disabled if you have 4+ cores. Ideally 6 since most games nowadays fully utilize 4+ cores. If you only have 4, then you shouldn't run anything else in the background, or you will stutter. Other games like Battlefield 1 probably need every single core. It depends on what you play.

For those of you that don't know, this SMT allows a core to execute two threads at once (a thread is a set of instructions for the CPU). One physical core, and one logical core per physical core. The drawback of this is that logical cores are significantly weaker, but the OS doesn't know this. Because of this, the OS will have code execute on the logical cores, causing low FPS and high latency (drivers will also execute on the logical cores, this is where the latency comes from). For me, it was well worth it.


----------



## BroadPwns

I've tried disabling HT in some titles and it only worsen performance. Especially in Tera Online. 

Anyway, is disabling every possible feature there is to lower any kind of latency still a thing? I've tried disabling literally everything I could, set voltages to manual, chose hardware detection manually, turned accessory software off, yadda yadda and I did not feel any change at all. Is that mostly voodoo stuff or is that just my case?


----------



## Calypto

There is a difference between mindlessly disabling everything and researching every variable and making an informed decision. In my case, disabling SMT produced measurable results that I noticed right away.


----------



## BroadPwns

I just followed the first page.


----------



## MooMoo

BroadPwns said:


> I've tried disabling HT in some titles and it only worsen performance. Especially in Tera Online.
> 
> Anyway, is disabling every possible feature there is to lower any kind of latency still a thing? I've tried disabling literally everything I could, set voltages to manual, chose hardware detection manually, turned accessory software off, yadda yadda and I did not feel any change at all. Is that mostly voodoo stuff or is that just my case?


Mostly voodoo stuff and outdated.


----------



## Offler

BroadPwns said:


> I've tried disabling HT in some titles and it only worsen performance. Especially in Tera Online.
> 
> Anyway, is disabling every possible feature there is to lower any kind of latency still a thing? I've tried disabling literally everything I could, set voltages to manual, chose hardware detection manually, turned accessory software off, yadda yadda and I did not feel any change at all. Is that mostly voodoo stuff or is that just my case?





MooMoo said:


> Mostly voodoo stuff and outdated.


In some cases when you set something to manual, you remove a chance that the setting is changing between reboots or while running PC/program. In some cases it removed some CPU load, but it was visible on single core or dual core CPUs...

In other cases the Latency issues were related to a new feature on level of BIOS, CPU or motherboard, while the applications which were not yet supporting it went into trouble. Disabling something because it caused latency issues, could be fixed in addition by SW patch, and program which initially had trouble, later worked without any problem.

It worth to read how certain features work, how were implemented over time. The "Dreaded" HPET went from "useless" to "troublesome" and over time to "perfectly implemented". In the end you have to come up with your own set of settings.


----------



## MonarchX

That MSI IRQ thing also helps. It sets compatible devices to have negative IRQ, but that only works for the newest hardware. My ASUS Xonar DGX, for example, does not support it.


----------



## r0ach

If anyone plays video games, I have created what I consider to be the best mod/overhaul for Divinity Original Sin 2:

https://www.nexusmods.com/divinityoriginalsin2/mods/388

Just about every mod I've tried for this game was balanced poorly or just weird, so the saying goes: if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.


----------



## rivage

Hello peeps,

I bought this card https://www.amazon.com/10Gtek-Chipset-Gigabit-Desktop-EXPI9301CT/dp/B01M28WJ00 so I could disable the onboard Realtek LAN,
Also is 19.0 still the best Intel lan driver to this day ? @r0ach

Can anyone confirm to me this is good enough for gaming purposes and lesser Latency?
cheers!


----------



## Avalar

@r0ach

Maybe a bit much to ask, but would you mind updated the Win 10 section? I'm sure there's a plethora of new things that can be done to reduce lag with all the new updates, I just don't know what all of them are. I wish I wasn't forced to use it, but my modern hardware demands it. T_T


----------



## Offler

rivage said:


> Hello peeps,
> 
> I bought this card https://www.amazon.com/10Gtek-Chipset-Gigabit-Desktop-EXPI9301CT/dp/B01M28WJ00 so I could disable the onboard Realtek LAN,
> Also is 19.0 still the best Intel lan driver to this day ? @r0ach
> 
> Can anyone confirm to me this is good enough for gaming purposes and lesser Latency?
> cheers!


Even modern Realteks cards are more than enough for gaming purposes. The one you linked is Broadcom so its really great.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Is high contrast theme disable Windows Desktop composition in windows 10 if you turn it on?


----------



## whood

Nawafwabs said:


> Is high contrast theme disable Windows Desktop composition in windows 10 if you turn it on?


Nope.


----------



## rivage

Any good internal sound cards so I don't use the onboard Realtek one? (I listen to music a lot + gaming)

cheers!


----------



## Goa80

hi guys,

i am running the latest latencymon software and it always shows hardpage fault, is that normal?
IF i run a previous latencymon verioons there are no hardpage fault.
Morover, i always get high dpc latency from the gpu when playing /testing the system

My specs:
cpu i7 [email protected]
gpu : asus rog strix 1080ti oc
ram 32gb @ default xmp profile 3200 mhz
SSD: samsung 970evo NVME 500gb
mobo: Asrock z370 Taichi
Psu: Seasonic focus pro 750w platinum

I will post some screen when getting home


----------



## deepor

"Hard page faults" is something normal. Programs that use "memory mapped files" to access the disk cause these "hard page faults". I don't know why you are sometimes seeing page faults and sometimes not. The old version of the LatencyMon program might just be broken and not detecting things right.


----------



## x7007

Goa80 said:


> hi guys,
> 
> i am running the latest latencymon software and it always shows hardpage fault, is that normal?
> IF i run a previous latencymon verioons there are no hardpage fault.
> Morover, i always get high dpc latency from the gpu when playing /testing the system
> 
> My specs:
> cpu i7 [email protected]
> gpu : asus rog strix 1080ti oc
> ram 32gb @ default xmp profile 3200 mhz
> SSD: samsung 970evo NVME 500gb
> mobo: Asrock z370 Taichi
> Psu: Seasonic focus pro 750w platinum
> 
> I will post some screen when getting home


It was said that the changelog of the new version is the fix to Hard Fault detection , so those once you see now are actually were before but weren't shown.
Next is Hard Fault will happen when you page the memory to the hard disk when it's needed , you could minimize the hard faults when using Page File on an SSD and having a large Paging File .


----------



## Offler

rivage said:


> Any good internal sound cards so I don't use the onboard Realtek one? (I listen to music a lot + gaming)
> 
> cheers!


In my next build i am actually going to give a shot to the Realtek 1220, on Asrock X399M. Else I was always looking up for cards by Creative.

However if the onboard sound will be bad, I might end up using an USB Creative one.


----------



## Goa80

x7007 said:


> It was said that the changelog of the new version is the fix to Hard Fault detection , so those once you see now are actually were before but weren't shown.
> Next is Hard Fault will happen when you page the memory to the hard disk when it's needed , you could minimize the hard faults when using Page File on an SSD and having a large Paging File .


HI,
thanks for your last duly noted,
actually I have 32gb or ram and I set the pagefile on the SSD with minimal/maximum 32gb , so I wonder why I am seeing large numbers of hardpage file despite having a "huge" page file on my samsung 970evo .


----------



## desiler

These are my results now.

DPC Latency Checker;










Latencymon;










Pretty happy with these results now. Using a Ryzen 5 1600 with 16GB DDR4 RAM and a GTX 1080.


----------



## BroadPwns

And what were your scores before messing around?


----------



## lurker2501

Anybody checked if Samsung Magician causes any noticeable input lag?


----------



## desiler

BroadPwns said:


> And what were your scores before messing around?


Really really bad, like spikes to 20k with USBPORT.sys and Nvidia Drivers and averaging around 400.

These are while gaming btw, so I'm really glad I fixed it. Games and mouse input are so much smoother now.

I think the best 2 tips were turning of HT and switching my devices to MSI mode instead of IRQ.

Also don't mess with OC settings or RAM timings or anything, never changed anything for me except my system not being stable.



lurker2501 said:


> Anybody checked if Samsung Magician causes any noticeable input lag?


Why do you want to have it installed anyway? Got a Samsung SSD for like 3 years now and I've literally never installed that software. Never had the need to.


----------



## Coldplayer

Bump, update to windows 10 section would be great.


----------



## x7007

desiler said:


> These are my results now.
> 
> DPC Latency Checker;
> 
> Latencymon;
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty happy with these results now. Using a Ryzen 5 1600 with 16GB DDR4 RAM and a GTX 1080.


You don't need DPC Latency Checker anymore when using Windows 8.x or Higher.

Checking 1 minute doesn't actually gives you an issue, usually it start after interval of couple minutes . depends on your system when trying listen to music and trying to use your LAN transferring data or such could cause latency issues. you need to test everything on IDLE but also when your system is on stress . not Benchmark stress but normal usage stress.



lurker2501 said:


> Anybody checked if Samsung Magician causes any noticeable input lag?


Did you try uninstalling it and installing it to see if it's the same ? Did you enable RAPID Mode that caused this lag input maybe ?


----------



## desiler

x7007 said:


> You don't need DPC Latency Checker anymore when using Windows 8.x or Higher.
> 
> Checking 1 minute doesn't actually gives you an issue, usually it start after interval of couple minutes . depends on your system when trying listen to music and trying to use your LAN transferring data or such could cause latency issues. you need to test everything on IDLE but also when your system is on stress . not Benchmark stress but normal usage stress.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you try uninstalling it and installing it to see if it's the same ? Did you enable RAPID Mode that caused this lag input maybe ?


I'm using Windows 7.

And before I found this thread I used to have 20k spikes in IDLE. When gaming the biggest spike I've seen is 148.


----------



## Goa80

desiler said:


> These are my results now.
> 
> DPC Latency Checker;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latencymon;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty happy with these results now. Using a Ryzen 5 1600 with 16GB DDR4 RAM and a GTX 1080.


So what tweaks have you applied to have that perfect dpc low latency values?

what have you changed?


----------



## desiler

Goa80 said:


> So what tweaks have you applied to have that perfect dpc low latency values?
> 
> what have you changed?


Windows 7 without any updates installed, didn't install my Realtek onboard audio drivers (I'm gonna buy a seperate soundcard). Installed a older NVIDIA Driver (385.69), converted all my devices from IRQ to MSI, running Process Lasso in the background and the basic BIOS tweaks in the start of the thread. Also in Windows my mouse movement is soo much smoother now. It's night and day difference.


----------



## Goa80

desiler said:


> Windows 7 without any updates installed, didn't install my Realtek onboard audio drivers (I'm gonna buy a seperate soundcard). Installed a older NVIDIA Driver (385.69), converted all my devices from IRQ to MSI, running Process Lasso in the background and the basic BIOS tweaks in the start of the thread. Also in Windows my mouse movement is soo much smoother now. It's night and day difference.


hi and thanks, is there any guide/tool on howto change all devices to MSI?


----------



## Offler

desiler said:


> Windows 7 without any updates installed, didn't install my Realtek onboard audio drivers (I'm gonna buy a seperate soundcard). Installed a older NVIDIA Driver (385.69), converted all my devices from IRQ to MSI, running Process Lasso in the background and the basic BIOS tweaks in the start of the thread. Also in Windows my mouse movement is soo much smoother now. It's night and day difference.





Goa80 said:


> hi and thanks, is there any guide/tool on howto change all devices to MSI?


I would say its a BIOS/driver related thing.

Desiler... it would help a bit if you would share all your HW specifics.


----------



## Avalar

desiler said:


> Windows 7 without any updates installed, didn't install my Realtek onboard audio drivers (I'm gonna buy a seperate soundcard). Installed a older NVIDIA Driver (385.69), converted all my devices from IRQ to MSI, running Process Lasso in the background and the basic BIOS tweaks in the start of the thread. Also in Windows my mouse movement is soo much smoother now. It's night and day difference.





Offler said:


> I would say its a BIOS/driver related thing.
> 
> Desiler... it would help a bit if you would share all your HW specifics.


Could you explain the difference between IRQ and MSI, and any negative effects of changing that setting?


----------



## Melan

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/


----------



## Offler

Avalar said:


> Could you explain the difference between IRQ and MSI, and any negative effects of changing that setting?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_Signaled_Interrupts

Tbh I wasnt aware of this approach on PCI-E.

I was aware that waaaaaaay back when SDR RAM was about to be thing of the past, there was released similar approach which created 16 virtual channels to address memory.

It took further reading, but yeah... it can have a lot of positive impact on issues with microstuttering, pacing problems. But because since Windows 7 x64 i led OS to manage the IRQs i wasnt really aware if it assigned one or multiple IRQ numbers to the devices...

Edit: Also if you had any standard PCI device i system, it could make improvements gained by MSI PCI-E completely invisible...


----------



## Avalar

Melan said:


> https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/


In layman's terms? Sorry lol. Have you done this, and did it make a significant different for mouse movement?


----------



## Offler

Avalar said:


> In layman's terms? Sorry lol. Have you done this, and did it make a significant different for mouse movement?


In layman terms, it allows better DMA accesses and lower wait times for CPU. But the result is dependent on specific device and its driver.

Worth a try...


----------



## Offler

Some update on HPET setting.

Ryzen Threadripper 1900x
Windows 10 x64 pro.

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/16285602/fs/16264280

ENABLED HPET means +8,8 percent increase in combined test - visibly higher.
(Windows Defender disabled)

Overall score + 1,2 percent, graphic scores -1,2 percents - these are within margin of error.


----------



## navjack27

HPET IS THE DEVIL


----------



## BroadPwns

If I disable it then I'm greeted with stuttering and bad performance. Then no, it's not.


----------



## Offler

Its fact that HPET properly enabled in bios and OS increase values measured in LatencyMon from 7-9 microseconds to 50-70, but thats only because the measuring compared to RTC clock became more precise.

RTC usually runs on 1.19318 MHz, HPET starts at 10MHz and commonly use 14.318 MHz.

You did not lose any FPS, you did not lost any real performance. You just got more accurate benchmarking.


----------



## BroadPwns

I am not talking about any benchmarks. Even the system kept on lagging when HPET was off. Right now I can't give exact number of fps lost in-game but it was noticable plus constant stuttering.


----------



## RamenRider

So should I disable HPET for AMD systems with FX and Ryzen?

Also what is the best gaming optimization for W10?

I've already done disable fullscreen optimization for games(does it help with other apps like Chrome, OBS)? I also use prio, and process lasso, and used gaming.

But what about stuff like Run in Admin mode, Override High DPI Scaling by App, System, System Enhanced?

How about disabling diagtrack? https://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/12/how-to-disable-the-diagnostics-tracking-service-in-windows/

And lastly does Game Mode even work?


----------



## x7007

RamenRider said:


> So should I disable HPET for AMD systems with FX and Ryzen?
> Not sure about HPET , but you shouldn't use it on bios because I think it's just POWER Management for SLEEP , if you don't use sleep my guess you don't need it enabled in bios . also nore in windows bcdedit command.
> 
> Also what is the best gaming optimization for W10?
> What do you mean , there are a lot of settings and many things to do with drivers, many bios settings nore just windows.
> 
> 
> I've already done disable fullscreen optimization for games(does it help with other apps like Chrome, OBS)? I also use prio, and process lasso, and used gaming.
> 
> But what about stuff like Run in Admin mode, Override High DPI Scaling by App, System, System Enhanced?
> Shouldn't do much depend on what Monitor/TV you are using ... it could cause issue if set with something or just wrong
> 
> How about disabling diagtrack? https://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/12/how-to-disable-the-diagnostics-tracking-service-in-windows/
> Don't touch that, last time it ****ed up .
> 
> And lastly does Game Mode even work?


You don't need it


----------



## RamenRider

I need it my friend. I need it. W10 is a double edged sword. It can have great performance only if you know how to properly config this pile of garbage.


----------



## BroadPwns

Game Work does not work, can only provide issues.


----------



## Offler

RamenRider said:


> So should I disable HPET for AMD systems with FX and Ryzen?
> 
> Also what is the best gaming optimization for W10?
> 
> I've already done disable fullscreen optimization for games(does it help with other apps like Chrome, OBS)? I also use prio, and process lasso, and used gaming.
> 
> But what about stuff like Run in Admin mode, Override High DPI Scaling by App, System, System Enhanced?
> 
> How about disabling diagtrack? https://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/12/how-to-disable-the-diagnostics-tracking-service-in-windows/
> 
> And lastly does Game Mode even work?


The problem is... there is no definitive answer whether enable or disable HPET.

a) its different for each CPU platform.
b) Its different for each BIOS
c) OS
d) application.

Also depending on circumstances, even when you decide to enable or disable it there will be certain consequences - it will depend what you want to achieve.

As speaking for my particular Threadripper 1900x build:
HPET - Enabled in BIOS as it cannot be disabled.
useplatformclock enabled
useplatformtick enabled
disabledynamictick enabled

Benefits:
Smoother system performance
Smoother game performance
Supposedly better multi-threading and driver behaviour

Consequences:
Overall lower scores in benchmarks
Supposedly bigger CPU overhead in some tasks


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> RamenRider said:
> 
> 
> 
> So should I disable HPET for AMD systems with FX and Ryzen?
> 
> Also what is the best gaming optimization for W10?
> 
> I've already done disable fullscreen optimization for games(does it help with other apps like Chrome, OBS)? I also use prio, and process lasso, and used gaming.
> 
> But what about stuff like Run in Admin mode, Override High DPI Scaling by App, System, System Enhanced?
> 
> How about disabling diagtrack? https://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/12/how-to-disable-the-diagnostics-tracking-service-in-windows/
> 
> And lastly does Game Mode even work?
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is... there is no definitive answer whether enable or disable HPET.
> 
> a) its different for each CPU platform.
> b) Its different for each BIOS
> c) OS
> d) application.
> 
> Also depending on circumstances, even when you decide to enable or disable it there will be certain consequences - it will depend what you want to achieve.
> 
> As speaking for my particular Threadripper 1900x build:
> HPET - Enabled in BIOS as it cannot be disabled.
> useplatformclock enabled
> useplatformtick enabled
> disabledynamictick enabled
> 
> Benefits:
> Smoother system performance
> Smoother game performance
> Supposedly better multi-threading and driver behaviour
> 
> Consequences:
> Overall lower scores in benchmarks
> Supposedly bigger CPU overhead in some tasks
Click to expand...

how did you check this?

why you need to use all this bcdedit commands?

useplatformclock enabled
useplatformtick enabled 

craps out my performance I test it with TimerBench 1.3.3


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> how did you check this?
> 
> why you need to use all this bcdedit commands?
> 
> useplatformclock enabled
> useplatformtick enabled
> 
> craps out my performance I test it with TimerBench 1.3.3


I tested it with LatencyMON.

If usedplatformclock was enabled on my old system, some drivers started to work much better, some a bit worse. On new system with Threadripper everything got better. (amount of DPC calls, time required to process on average, highest time required to process)
Usedplatformtick also forces APPs to stop using "synthetic timers" (its not exactly clear what it means - its present in documents by Microsoft - it seems like timers ran by a program, rather than a hardware)

Later I did a 3dmark Firestrike and it got better by 8.8% on CPU oriented tasks...

As I said, its very individual. For some people it might screw driver behavior, for other to improve. For Intel its better to use hardware TSC timer (embedded in CPU), for AMD it appears that HPET with its finer time measurement helps with high amount of threads. The worst case scenario is when HPET is partially enabled (bios only), disabled on OS (bcdedit commands are disabled). In that case multiple timers with different tick frequency will cause trouble - again the scale will vary depending on HW and drivers.

Also I would NOT recommend to alter any of these settings on production environment (servers). If its for a gaming machine - feel free.

For overclocking it can beneficial to have an external timer. If you check some TR4 boards, they all have Nuvoton clock generator. HPET (usually) embedded in southbridge can act on a similar base.


----------



## RamenRider

RamenRider said:


> Also what is the best gaming optimization for W10?
> 
> I've already done disable fullscreen optimization for games(does it help with other apps like Chrome, OBS)? I also use prio, and process lasso, and used gaming.
> 
> But what about stuff like Run in Admin mode, Override High DPI Scaling by App, System, System Enhanced?
> 
> How about disabling diagtrack? https://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/12/how-to-disable-the-diagnostics-tracking-service-in-windows/
> 
> And lastly does Game Mode even work?


These are currently the most important questions. W10 is not optimized for gaming at default settings.


----------



## Offler

Ok, i guess I have finally first benchmark which shows that HPET, usedplatformclock and usedplatformtick settings are enabled can cause performance degradation.


HPET Enabled everywhere
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11171094

HPET Disabled in OS
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11172145

There is slight difference in CPU performance, GPU performance, RAM performance, but everything is within margin of error (less than 5%). There is but one very notable exception and thats performance of Samsung 970 Pro NVMe drive.

I re-run the Samsung Magician and found out that when HPET is disabled, drive can perform up to 300 000 IOPS when you installed Samsung NVMe driver.
If HPET is Enabled, this will reduce to 100 000 IOPS.
And if you forgot to install Samsung NVMe driver, and you use the one provided by Microsoft, you will have just 70 000 IOPS.


So speaking of negative effects on overall system performance, I finally can confirm that assumption on a base of two independent benchmarks. Yet it nicely illustrates how it is hardware and application dependant. You have to match two factors (NVMe drive by samsung, its specific NVMe driver which is not mandatory) with HPET settings in bcdedit.


----------



## vf-

Offler said:


> I tested it with LatencyMON.
> 
> If usedplatformclock was enabled on my old system, some drivers started to work much better, some a bit worse. On new system with Threadripper everything got better. (amount of DPC calls, time required to process on average, highest time required to process)
> Usedplatformtick also forces APPs to stop using "synthetic timers" (its not exactly clear what it means - its present in documents by Microsoft - it seems like timers ran by a program, rather than a hardware)
> 
> Later I did a 3dmark Firestrike and it got better by 8.8% on CPU oriented tasks...
> 
> As I said, its very individual. For some people it might screw driver behavior, for other to improve. *For Intel its better to use hardware TSC timer (embedded in CPU)*, for AMD it appears that HPET with its finer time measurement helps with high amount of threads. The worst case scenario is when HPET is partially enabled (bios only), disabled on OS (bcdedit commands are disabled). In that case multiple timers with different tick frequency will cause trouble - again the scale will vary depending on HW and drivers.
> 
> Also I would NOT recommend to alter any of these settings on production environment (servers). If its for a gaming machine - feel free.
> 
> For overclocking it can beneficial to have an external timer. If you check some TR4 boards, they all have Nuvoton clock generator. HPET (usually) embedded in southbridge can act on a similar base.


Why on the Asrock z77 Extreme 6 is HPET enabled by default or even on the platform to begin with? I keep coming across these HPET discussions but nobody can 100% confirm to use or not to.


----------



## Blameless

vf- said:


> Why on the Asrock z77 Extreme 6 is HPET enabled by default or even on the platform to begin with?


HPET has been built into all of Intel's chipsets at the ICH/PCH level for more than twenty years.

It's the most accurate hardware timer a system has access to and it usually enabled by default on most remotely modern hardware because there is little reason not to. Software generally isn't forced to use it.



vf- said:


> I keep coming across these HPET discussions but nobody can 100% confirm to use or not to.


That's because there is no universal answer.

The only firm recommendation I can give without further info is to not force it's use at the OS level (via useplatformclock = true in Windows, for example) on any Intel platform that has Specter/Meltdown mitigations enabled.


----------



## Offler

vf- said:


> Why on the Asrock z77 Extreme 6 is HPET enabled by default or even on the platform to begin with? I keep coming across these HPET discussions but nobody can 100% confirm to use or not to.





Blameless said:


> HPET has been built into all of Intel's chipsets at the ICH/PCH level for more than twenty years.
> 
> It's the most accurate hardware timer a system has access to and it usually enabled by default on most remotely modern hardware because there is little reason not to. Software generally isn't forced to use it.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because there is no universal answer.
> 
> The only firm recommendation I can give without further info is to not force it's use at the OS level (via useplatformclock = true in Windows, for example) on any Intel platform that has Specter/Meltdown mitigations enabled.


There are various information, arriving from different developers.

Apparenlty Blizzard is using if for its products, if available. VMware does not recommend to use it, because of CPU overhead being higher when compared to TSC. The information about Spectre/Meltdown is newer one. Keep in mind that side-channel attacks are dependant on precise timing.

Also:
Usedplatformclock = True will enable it for system core components (ntoskrnl, hal.dll etc).
usedplatformtick = true probably forces it to applications as well.
HPET enabled in bios will in any case make the timer present in device manager and "free to use" for any process within the system. If a Spectre/Meltdown attack will be able to synchronize with a kernel running on TSC is a different question.


If you check my previous post, the only measurable impact is only in case when i use Samsung NVMe driver. Microsoft NVMe driver would not be affected by it at all.

My updated recommendation is:
a) If you use Intel CPU, or Samsung NVMe - disable it.
b) If you dont have any measurable performance impact - disable it.
c) If you are on AMD platform, and you notice/measure some performance degradation when its disabled, you might turn it on.

The best results (however) are when "useplatformclock", "useplatformtick" and HPET in BIOS are ALL either enabled or disabled. And it appears the device cannot be turned off in bios. Alternatively can be tried to disable it in Device manager.


----------



## BroadPwns

I had a ****ty experience after disabling HPET on my 5775c so I'd never recommend strictly disabling it.


----------



## Blameless

Offler said:


> The information about Spectre/Meltdown is newer one. Keep in mind that side-channel attacks are dependant on precise timing.


Software mitigations already address the security issues here, and my comment was in regard to performance.

The lower-level mitigations for some of these exploits work by forcing the a TLB flush any time there is a user/kernel context switch...which generally happens every single time a system time is accessed.

This can result in a massive performance impact if HPET is used when it's not needed:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results/4



Offler said:


> The best results (however) are when "useplatformclock", "useplatformtick" and HPET in BIOS are ALL either enabled or disabled.


This is not always the case. There are several apps where I can measure a performance impact (and occasionally a noticeable one) if I force "useplatformclock". However, if I still want the timer available (and I do, because some apps require or benefit from the precision), forcing it disabled or turning it off in firmware isn't viable either.

Generally, I leave it enabled in the firmware/BIOS and unspecified in Windows. The parameter being missing (the default) is not the same as being set to either 'false' or 'true'.


----------



## Offler

Blameless said:


> Software mitigations already address the security issues here, and my comment was in regard to performance.
> 
> The lower-level mitigations for some of these exploits work by forcing the a TLB flush any time there is a user/kernel context switch...which generally happens every single time a system time is accessed.
> 
> This can result in a massive performance impact if HPET is used when it's not needed:
> 
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results/4
> 
> 
> 
> This is not always the case. There are several apps where I can measure a performance impact (and occasionally a noticeable one) if I force "useplatformclock". However, if I still want the timer available (and I do, because some apps require or benefit from the precision), forcing it disabled or turning it off in firmware isn't viable either.
> 
> Generally, I leave it enabled in the firmware/BIOS and unspecified in Windows. The parameter being missing (the default) is not the same as being set to either 'false' or 'true'.


Yes, however if the software is poorly coded, or some driver is "unaware" of multiple timers in the running processes, results are quite jittery. Worst results in this regard are in video/audio syncing apps.


----------



## vf-

Blameless said:


> Software mitigations already address the security issues here, and my comment was in regard to performance.
> 
> The lower-level mitigations for some of these exploits work by forcing the a TLB flush any time there is a user/kernel context switch...which generally happens every single time a system time is accessed.
> 
> This can result in a massive performance impact if HPET is used when it's not needed:
> 
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results/4
> 
> 
> 
> This is not always the case. There are several apps where I can measure a performance impact (and occasionally a noticeable one) if I force "useplatformclock". However, if I still want the timer available (and I do, because some apps require or benefit from the precision), forcing it disabled or turning it off in firmware isn't viable either.
> 
> *Generally, I leave it enabled in the firmware/BIOS and unspecified in Windows. The parameter being missing (the default) is not the same as being set to either 'false' or 'true'.*


This is what I've always done.


----------



## Offler

Ok, lets have a look on how drivers perform on Ryzen platform as a whole. The following report was done while system was idle, HPET disabled.



Code:


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts. 
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for  0:01:02  (h:mm:ss) on all processors.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name:                                        IMMOLATORIII
OS version:                                           Windows 7 , 6.1, build: 7600 (x64)
Hardware:                                             ASRock, X399M Taichi
CPU:                                                  AuthenticAMD AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1900X 8-Core Processor 
Logical processors:                                   16
Processor groups:                                     1
RAM:                                                  32650 MB total


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed:                                   3992 MHz

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.

WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature. 



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   105.413753
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):   3.916239

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       102.592460
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):       1.287283


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):              0.0
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:       

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):          0.0
Driver with highest ISR total time:                   

Total time spent in ISRs (%)                          0.0

ISR count (execution time <250 µs):                   0
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):              104.288577
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:       tcpip.sys - TCP/IP Driver, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):          0.001230
Driver with highest DPC total execution time:         ntoskrnl.exe - NT Kernel & System, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%)                          0.002272

DPC count (execution time <250 µs):                   7794
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs):                0
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs):              0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):                 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.


Process with highest pagefault count:                 none

Total number of hard pagefaults                       0
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:          0
Number of processes hit:                              0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.207364
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 0 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):                104.288577
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.021575
CPU 0 DPC count:                                      7584
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.092252
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 1 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 1 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.055347
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 2 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):                9.839679
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.000029
CPU 2 DPC count:                                      8
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.100044
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 3 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 3 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.066707
CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 4 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs):                53.166333
CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.000763
CPU 4 DPC count:                                      186
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.094139
CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 5 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 5 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 6 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.069928
CPU 6 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 6 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 6 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 6 DPC highest execution time (µs):                22.304609
CPU 6 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.000062
CPU 6 DPC count:                                      9
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 7 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.089346
CPU 7 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 7 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 7 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 7 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 7 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 7 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 8 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.060058
CPU 8 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 8 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 8 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 8 DPC highest execution time (µs):                1.162325
CPU 8 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.000001
CPU 8 DPC count:                                      1
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 9 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.058537
CPU 9 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 9 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 9 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 9 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 9 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 9 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 10 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.059045
CPU 10 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 10 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 10 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 10 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 10 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 10 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 11 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.058645
CPU 11 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 11 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 11 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 11 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 11 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 11 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 12 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.055972
CPU 12 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 12 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 12 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 12 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 12 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 12 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 13 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.055809
CPU 13 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 13 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 13 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 13 DPC highest execution time (µs):                40.711423
CPU 13 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.000043
CPU 13 DPC count:                                      2
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 14 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.064555
CPU 14 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 14 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 14 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 14 DPC highest execution time (µs):                36.803607
CPU 14 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.000075
CPU 14 DPC count:                                      4
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 15 Interrupt cycle time (s):                       0.062474
CPU 15 ISR highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 15 ISR total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 15 ISR count:                                      0
CPU 15 DPC highest execution time (µs):                0.0
CPU 15 DPC total execution time (s):                   0.0
CPU 15 DPC count:                                      0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

a) Only 3 drivers actually perform ISR calls.
Thats mouse, keyboard and sound card driver. As mentioned earlier in the topic, the board uses kinda mysterious sound chip Realtek 1220. Its native Windows driver does not have bells and whistles, but also its not making any unneccessary ISR calls. The driver provided by the AsRock provides an agent application, which does ISR calls (tasking the CPU) for no good reason.

When it comes to sound devices, my previous Creative X-fi required a lot of processes, to be hosted on system, and it was causing little higher utilization.

b) Nvidia Vs Radeon
The difference between graphic drivers were well documented. Nvidia tends to make a lot of calls, lowering average system response. Data provided on different threads, and measured by LatencyMon were usually on 250 microseconds (usually reported as nvlddmkm.sys). Current Radeon drivers seem to not perform unnecessary ISR/DPC calls (usually measurable via hal.dll).

In this regard, AMD Radeon GPUs are less intrusive when compared to NVidia.

c) TCP-IP spike
Two drivers on the Windows are usually the slowest, and however there is no way around this. One is NDIS.sys and the other is tcpip.sys. Three DPC calls caused highest measured spike of 0.1ms, while total execution time for all three was 0.15 ms. This can be attributed to fact that network devices still work within range of miliseconds, not microsecond - in that case the result looks really good. The result can be improved a little by fine tunning the Intel 211's driver (disabling power saving features, etc). Currently we speak of the slowest device within the system.

d) Storage - NVMe by Samsung
Apparently no page-fault (reading from disk) happened, but the NVMe driver by Samsung performed few operations. The one which took most time was 0.0018ms, which is incredible. Usage of standard Microsoft driver or SATA would not yield such great results.

e) Mouse and Keyboard.
I connected my keyboard via PS/2 port which is available on the board. Its working on "default" refresh rate, which is 80Hz. No tuning applied yet (can go up to 200Hz). Main reason for that is no Shadowing on keys, and dedicated IRQ.

Its worth noting that USB 3.0 is in case of Ryzens directly on CPU die. The latency is then as good as its possible. Also USB 3.0 even by Asmedia on my older mainboard was superior to USB 2.0 in LatencyMON measurements, so my original objections against USB mice is no longer valid.

Mouse is connected via USB 3.0 port and works up to 1000Hz. Its important to mention "up to" because no mouse driver performs polling if there are no data to transfer (when you dont move the mouse) - real refresh rate is therefore variable. On other hand, the higher refresh rate, the higher CPU utilization for the data processing.

f) CPU utilization
Most of the operation during the LatencyMON benchmark was again lumped on Core 0, Thread 0. Its worth to note that over course of 1 minute benchmark, CPU 0 was busy only for 0.1 milisecond (you got it, TCPIP.sys).

g) Network
As mentioned earlier TCPIP.SYS and NDIS.SYS are the slowest part of the OS at the moment. Ethernet NIC versus Wifi did not caused any major differences in measurements. Ping to router was always >1ms (to get more accurate readings, you need a packet analyzer).

So... Even when I had concerns about smoothness of the system when using Threadripper and Windows 10, all these were proven to be invalid. The system runs almost flawlessly. I will take a look on the network driver, if its behavior can be improved. I this regard i can only highly recommend Ryzen and Threadripper (in combination with Radeon GPU) as an ideal platform for people who are interested less in FPS and more in flawless performance.

Edit:
I disabled unused network cards, disabled power efficient networking (so far let offloading on). TCPIP.SYS and NDIS.SYS went down to 0.065 milisecond in the slowest scenario. Still quite slow for a driver, but definitely worth the tuning.


----------



## MonarchX

How can you get no page faults? I always get them, ALWAYS on Windows 10 build 1607-14393 or older. I never get them with newer Windows 10 builds, but that's only because LatencyMon can't register them in newer Windows 10 builds...


----------



## vf-

MonarchX said:


> How can you get no page faults? I always get them, ALWAYS on Windows 10 build 1607-14393 or older. I never get them with newer Windows 10 builds, but that's only because LatencyMon can't register them in newer Windows 10 builds...


It always goes off the charts in Windows 7. I usually run LatencyMon for 30 - 45 minutes to see. Not 1 minute like most do.


----------



## Offler

MonarchX said:


> How can you get no page faults? I always get them, ALWAYS on Windows 10 build 1607-14393 or older. I never get them with newer Windows 10 builds, but that's only because LatencyMon can't register them in newer Windows 10 builds...





vf- said:


> It always goes off the charts in Windows 7. I usually run LatencyMon for 30 - 45 minutes to see. Not 1 minute like most do.


It does register page faults. But its important to remember what actually is LatencyMON reporting.

Let it run along with lets say browser does not tell how good is OS at handling real-time audio, but it will tell how much is browser using CPU time, and what other processes and drivers are involved in it. Page faults are present as well. So if its done while nothing else is running you get "clean" image of OS only. If you run it along with a 3d game, its getting data about "profile" of the 3d game. Run it along with your voice or video communicating program and then you will get idea about that application.

In most cases you dont need to measure longer than for 1 minute. After that time a lot of background processes might happen, and the results will be affected by them.

"OS only" result is very important because it tells you that you dont have problems on level of hardware or drivers. It should be as clean and as good as possible and if not, LatencyMON will help you to identify which program or driver is troublesome.


----------



## PurpleChef

MouseMovementRecorder.exe vs benq mouse rate checker ( https://zowie.benq.com/en/support/mouse-rate-checker.html ) on w10 ltsc. Allways had the feeling that the MMR isnt reporting correctly on w10. Anyone else?
4380 hz, cool story bro.
Mouse is g502


----------



## x7007

PurpleChef said:


> MouseMovementRecorder.exe vs benq mouse rate checker ( https://zowie.benq.com/en/support/mouse-rate-checker.html ) on w10 ltsc. Allways had the feeling that the MMR isnt reporting correctly on w10. Anyone else?
> 4380 hz, cool story bro.
> Mouse is g502



Same getting 1000 hz exactly .... and the windows software is different 




Does anyone has Latency or Lag Input issues with Logitech drivers ? LGS or Logitech Gaming Software ? not sure if it's randomly , all the times , or for example something changed like windows update or anything.


----------



## PurpleChef

x7007 said:


> Same getting 1000 hz exactly .... and the windows software is different
> 
> Does anyone has Latency or Lag Input issues with Logitech drivers ? LGS or Logitech Gaming Software ? not sure if it's randomly , all the times , or for example something changed like windows update or anything.


So one of them is wrong? 
i do get more stable mouse hz on windows 7 without those crazy jumps. 

I haven't noticed any latency or lag with logitech gaming software. I know its recommended not to have it installed, for some reason, but playing diablo 3 without the ability to put good macros on the mouse is a no go. Current meta gameplay without macro is not just as efficient. This picture is without any software installed tho, since i just reinstalled w7. Usb 3 xhci enabled, steinberg mk2 usb audio interface.
Thank god were not stuck with 10


----------



## RamenRider

Hmm I think they are both accurate. When I move fast I get 900-1000. However when I use mmr without enhanced mouse precision I always get green and reds. I'm on latest W10 using zowie AM monoprice edition.


----------



## RamenRider

But hey guys I was wondering what is the best OS to game on.

Windows 10 2019 LTSC was just released and from what I hear many people liked it. But I don't know if it is better htan Windows 10 2016 LTSB yet, haven't tried either. I remember the performance of regular w10 prior to Oct 2016 was phenomenal on overwatch. Then it all went downhill and everything kept getting worse and worse. They keep on adding/changing features that fooks up the input lag on all programs and sometimes the spyware in W10 actually slows down some games cause it uses too much internet.

So what do you guys recommend/have tried?


----------



## PurpleChef

RamenRider said:


> Hmm I think they are both accurate. When I move fast I get 900-1000. However when I use mmr without enhanced mouse precision I always get green and reds. I'm on latest W10 using zowie AM monoprice edition.


That polling looks terrible. Does Win10 users with good polling exist? in that case, please post a screenshot. Win7 just has way better polling and overall smoothess on my system. Ive tryed like 15 diffrent windows 10 version and non has good stable polling + it takes alot of time to remove and optimize everything, and even then its performing worse


----------



## m9viper

RamenRider said:


> I remember the performance of regular w10 prior to Oct 2016 was phenomenal on overwatch. Then it all went downhill and everything kept getting worse and worse. They keep on adding/changing features that fooks up the input lag on all programs and sometimes the spyware in W10 actually slows down some games cause it uses too much internet.
> 
> So what do you guys recommend/have tried?


Well, considering Overwatch I've had some measurements during last 1,5 years.

You know, there are always some people complaining that after some new Windows update or Overwatch patch they experience performance issues. But personally with my measurements (fraps) I see that I'm not having any performance losses.
I have 7700K @ 5ghz and GTX 1070 (385.69). 
I cannot confirm that performance of Overwatch on my PC had degraded since feb 2017 till now. (I'm not on Win 10 October update yet). 

Just get an optimized system, disable unnecessary services/features/tasks, do all what's this thread is about. LTSB windows versions just will have much of that unnecessary stuff pre-disabled, but you can clean/tweak it by yourself on any Windows build.


----------



## Grofor

One thing i found is that Hyperthreating also adds input lag, also on this link it says it does add latency because of the algorithms it uses:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading


----------



## Anusha

How do Ryzen 2xxx + B450 motherboards do in the input lag department? Are there any B450 motherboards that perform exceptionally well? What about memory speeds/timings?


----------



## Calypto

Garbage. See this thread: https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1699850-high-average-dpc-latency.html

If you want low-latency gaming, your only option is Intel ringbus processors.


----------



## Offler

Anusha said:


> How do Ryzen 2xxx + B450 motherboards do in the input lag department? Are there any B450 motherboards that perform exceptionally well? What about memory speeds/timings?





Calypto said:


> Garbage. See this thread: https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1699850-high-average-dpc-latency.html
> 
> If you want low-latency gaming, your only option is Intel ringbus processors.


I can speak for Threadrippers, which are a variant of Ryzen.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...uide-modern-pc-hardware-379.html#post27651356

13 microseconds according to latency mon. After some tuning (using LAN cable instead of Wifi, disabling Wifi entirely, Win10 patch) the longest DPC call reduced to 60 microseconds.


----------



## Calypto

Offler said:


> I can speak for Threadrippers, which are a variant of Ryzen.
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...uide-modern-pc-hardware-379.html#post27651356
> 
> 13 microseconds according to latency mon. After some tuning (using LAN cable instead of Wifi, disabling Wifi entirely, Win10 patch) the longest DPC call reduced to 60 microseconds.


The highs don't really matter as much as as the averages. I can't stress enough the latency difference between 8c16t and 4c on my 2700. I got scammed really hard.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Theoretically, is NVME SSD better or worse for responsiveness than SATA SSD?


----------



## Offler

Oh wow Secret Cow said:


> Theoretically, is NVME SSD better or worse for responsiveness than SATA SSD?


Better. Its build on idea it will be never connected to mechanical HDD. SATA (AHCI) interface still counts with that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVM_Express

The section which compares AHCI and NVMe will give you an idea. It might be not that much of a difference in latency, but the main difference is in possible concurrent reads and writes (very high IOPS).


----------



## dribler

Wonder was there any other "miracle" driver released for nvidia since 344.11?


----------



## Avalar

I haven’t updated my Windows 10 or graphics driver (and I don’t have any of Nvidia’s software installed) since April. Problem..?


----------



## MonarchX

Win10 1809 LTSC (not Home or Pro), after heavy de-bloating with NTLite is so much more responsive compared to any previous OS. LatencyMon stayes within 15-25ms range when PC was idle, including NVidia drivers that used to spike to 120ms once in a while in Win10 1607 LTSB.

1809 overall feels faster, but I can only speak for heavily tweaked LTSC version that doesn't come with Store and related super-bloat.

If anyone cares, there is a global script that disables FSE - Fullscreens Optimization (that began with Win10 Creators Update) for all .exe files. You can find it in MyDigitalLife Win10 forums, but it caused Far Cry 5 to not work.


----------



## EastCoast

Can anyone explain pcie spectrum in the bios and advise if it can be disabled or not?


----------



## Calypto

MonarchX said:


> Win10 1809 LTSC (not Home or Pro), after heavy de-bloating with NTLite is so much more responsive compared to any previous OS. LatencyMon stayes within 15-25ms range when PC was idle, including NVidia drivers that used to spike to 120ms once in a while in Win10 1607 LTSB.
> 
> 1809 overall feels faster, but I can only speak for heavily tweaked LTSC version that doesn't come with Store and related super-bloat.
> 
> If anyone cares, there is a global script that disables FSE - Fullscreens Optimization (that began with Win10 Creators Update) for all .exe files. You can find it in MyDigitalLife Win10 forums, but it caused Far Cry 5 to not work.


What is shown on the main page doesn't matter regarding actual responsiveness. What matters are the average DPC and interrupt to process latencies shown in the "stats" tab and that they are consistent every time you run the test.


----------



## PurpleChef

dribler said:


> Wonder was there any other "miracle" driver released for nvidia since 344.11?


I wonder the same. My ati gpu died (since installing ANY driver gives me blackscreen when i try to game etc, works fine without driver) so im stuck with a gtx760


----------



## softskiller

For some time now (after a recent update) whenever I move the mouse, the Service Host: Windows Event Log (EventLog) is spiking to 2 or even 3% CPU load. 

Have to disable the Event log service.


----------



## deepor

Did you check the event viewer and see what kind of events it logged? Or did it log nothing while it was using CPU?


----------



## bananabatman

Which version of windows 7 is best for mouse input? Is windows 7 better than windows 10? 

Looking to clean install to be sure of everything. I had really good mouse response 5 days ago but then decided to try overclocking ram, which made mouse much worse and I forgot what my previous settings were. Spent last 3 days losing my mind unable to fix my computer.


----------



## Nawafwabs

bananabatman said:


> Which version of windows 7 is best for mouse input? Is windows 7 better than windows 10?
> 
> Looking to clean install to be sure of everything. I had really good mouse response 5 days ago but then decided to try overclocking ram, which made mouse much worse and I forgot what my previous settings were. Spent last 3 days losing my mind unable to fix my computer.


restore your bios to default setting not help?


----------



## bananabatman

Nawafwabs said:


> restore your bios to default setting not help?



It helped but 5 hours later mouse felt significantly worse again. Default has too many options that are AUTO that seem to give amazing mouse feel one day or hour, and horrendous input the next minute. 
I'm clean installing to be sure of no driver conflicts, and going to windows 7 as I heard its better. (I care about mousefeel more than dx12 or 2fps difference)


----------



## BUFUMAN

Me to and i can say you there is nothing wrong with win10 and the mouse feeling. Btw i hate win10 for now.

Working with Logitech g502RGB @USB 3.0 1000hz on a 144hz Monitor like we say in germany it's "butter smooth"
[emoji6]

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## BUFUMAN

Calypto said:


> What is shown on the main page doesn't matter regarding actual responsiveness. What matters are the average DPC and interrupt to process latencies shown in the "stats" tab and that they are consistent every time you run the test.


Mate can you provide that LTSB tweaked version. Or how to do it?

I always unbloat after the installation.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Calypto

BUFUMAN said:


> Mate can you provide that LTSB tweaked version. Or how to do it?
> 
> I always unbloat after the installation.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


it's windows 7


----------



## hemlatuyda

Would using Sound Equalizer(Realtek HDA Manager or any other) settings affect "input lag" of mouse or other hardware? Windows 10 Pro.


----------



## Offler

hemlatuyda said:


> Would using Sound Equalizer(Realtek HDA Manager or any other) settings affect "input lag" of mouse or other hardware? Windows 10 Pro.


The driver by Microsoft is featureless and very conservative when using system resources. Driver by Realtek is running small app in notification area, and making calls to CPU, even when it should be idle.

There isnt any noticeable input lag change, its just "less clean" compared to basic driver.


----------



## RamenRider

Question. Does audio bit rate/sample rates affect latency? 

Most common rates are 16 bit/44.1khz while I hear the best is 24 bit/48khz is the best. Some games like overwatch also used to have the sound speed up or slow down depending on your sample rate. I know some emulatorslike virtual boy advanced have so much input lag due to the software's audio settings you'd have to keep reducing it to reduce input lag.

Also guys, look at this alternative to process lasso that may or may not help manage CCX on ryzen cpu's that can increase their performance dramatically. https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...-haven-t-seen-much-method-3.html#post27847118



RamenRider said:


> So I came upon this thread that gave out a really good alternative to process lasso. Project Mercury. Seems that it is an extremely lightweight version that is just an executable and not a installed program.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleRite/comments/97vv24/serious_performance_boost_on_ryzen_with_project/
> 
> "Here is an imgur album of details and screenshots: https://imgur.com/gallery/SjPeets
> 
> This is what Battlerite runs like for me out of the box (117 fps max) . The only things adjusted in Project Mercury are the recommended settings (asterisks) and with Auto multi-core optimizations. Auto mode is supposed to detect when an application doesn't benefit from SMT (or hyperthreading on intel) and disables the logical cores while the application is in focus. This is pretty set and forget because so far I haven't had anything have an issue with this config, and since Windows doesn't seem to always do a good job of load balancing on Ryzen while gaming and multi-tasking, the reduce priority of background stuff while increasing priority of foreground seems to keep stuff more smooth (don't go above "AboveNormal" or things can get bad). Especially if you're streaming or recording, you want to make sure your game isn't going to stutter.
> 
> I was testing with Game Mode in the newest version of Ryzen Master, the official Ryzen tool by AMD. Game mode disables the 2nd CCX, so it becomes a 4 core 8 thread cpu instead of an 8 core 16 thread. This might help for gaming, but will definitely be bad for multi-tasking, AND it requires a reboot so it's a major pain in the ass. Setting Project Mercury to these settings, most notably the "No CCX Switching" gave me the exact same results as the game mode thing, but also allows my streaming software and stuff to run in the 2nd CCX since it's still enabled, but it keeps Battlerite on the first CCX. You can manually do this stuff with something like Process Lasso, but Project Mercury handles this all nearly automatically and is super lightweight and if you use the configs I am it doesn't write any changes to Windows and can be turned on and off on the fly.
> 
> The performance enhancement is no joke. I am also running with Vsync enabled for gsync, so it's possible that I would have gone even higher than 143 fps since that's where my sync should be holding it anyway. I still did drop to 130 ish here and there, but on the previous settings where I capped out at 117 fps, it would drop to 100 fps as well.
> 
> In short, extremely easy and lightweight to use and can be a massive performance boost in games that aren't well threaded. Even games that can use four cores and 8 threads properly might still benefit from being locked to a CCX. For non-gaming, you can just toggle this stuff off quickly.
> 
> Disclaimer: I am using the donation version of Project Mercury, which is slightly newer, although the changelog implies that the performance for this application should be the same. I'm not affiliated with the project at all and am only sharing this information because Battlerite needs all the boosts to performance we can possibly give it.
> 
> P.S. my cpu is overclocked via precision overdrive so it's all handled automatically by the motherboard. It usually goes to 4.3 ghz.
> 
> P.P.S, the CCX feature is exclusively for the arcitecture of a Ryzen CPU, but the general features of Proj Merc can help the cpu priority for any game on any hardware, and if you have an i7 the SMT disabling feature can still help as virtual cores aren't as powerful as physical ones if programs don't utilize and recognize them properly.
> 
> Download link: https://techcenterdk.wordpress.com/
> 
> EDIT: DON'T DISABLE CORE PARKING ON RYZEN. Everything else I suggested is ideal, but Ryzen actually parks cores to be able to boost the ones in use."


----------



## BroadPwns

hemlatuyda said:


> Would using Sound Equalizer(Realtek HDA Manager or any other) settings affect "input lag" of mouse or other hardware? Windows 10 Pro.



It will render your system unusable and your mouse will explode due to data coming back to it.





RamenRider said:


> Question. Does audio bit rate/sample rates affect latency?
> 
> Most common rates are 16 bit/44.1khz while I hear the best is 24 bit/48khz is the best. Some games like overwatch also used to have the sound speed up or slow down depending on your sample rate. I know some emulatorslike virtual boy advanced have so much input lag due to the software's audio settings you'd have to keep reducing it to reduce input lag.
> 
> Also guys, look at this alternative to process lasso that may or may not help manage CCX on ryzen cpu's that can increase their performance dramatically. https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...-haven-t-seen-much-method-3.html#post27847118



No, even if you had a genuine Intel 8086 it would not. Stop caring about that, no amount of optimization will lead you to any kind of real life difference, you can only fk things up while trying to.


----------



## Unknownm

RamenRider said:


> Question. Does audio bit rate/sample rates affect latency?
> 
> 
> 
> Most common rates are 16 bit/44.1khz while I hear the best is 24 bit/48khz is the best. Some games like overwatch also used to have the sound speed up or slow down depending on your sample rate. I know some emulatorslike virtual boy advanced have so much input lag due to the software's audio settings you'd have to keep reducing it to reduce input lag.
> 
> 
> 
> Also guys, look at this alternative to process lasso that may or may not help manage CCX on ryzen cpu's that can increase their performance dramatically. https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...-haven-t-seen-much-method-3.html#post27847118


You should try VBaudio because you said some games speed up or slow down depending on bitdepth and frequency. You can make VBaudio default audio device and route it to output of soundcard so that way games with 16/44 can pass audio through with same settings and be converted (upsampled?) to 24/48 without having speed ups or slow downs. 

I use this for my DAC when its switching from 16/48 to 24/96, When ASIO is different depth/sample it cuts out WDM (any audio routed through windows). Always 16/48 will get upsampled to DAC ASIO 24/96



Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## Nawafwabs

Unknownm said:


> You should try VBaudio because you said some games speed up or slow down depending on bitdepth and frequency. You can make VBaudio default audio device and route it to output of soundcard so that way games with 16/44 can pass audio through with same settings and be converted (upsampled?) to 24/48 without having speed ups or slow downs.
> 
> I use this for my DAC when its switching from 16/48 to 24/96, When ASIO is different depth/sample it cuts out WDM (any audio routed through windows). Always 16/48 will get upsampled to DAC ASIO 24/96
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


can you show how to route it with picture ,please


----------



## Unknownm

Nawafwabs said:


> can you show how to route it with picture ,please


I'm talking about VB-Audio Cable or Voicemeeter

Reason is because PS4 Pro is connected to my second computer monitor and It comes with no speakers and only headphone jack for output. The GF loves watching netflix on the big screen which is right next to my PS4/PC so my only option is headphones because both PS4/PC audio can output on DAC

Windows WASAPI cuts out mixer audio in exclusive mode and same goes with ASIO driver. I bypass this by using VB-audio cable to output 24-bit 96khz always to DAC while VB-audio input is accepting general audio because it's acting like default device. Windows will "listen" to Cable output because it's output format is same bitdepth and sample frequency as my DAC output. Downside is they will have to be matching to allow audio to pass through "listen" or else "exclusive mode" or "ASIO" will cut out mixer audio always 

Please be careful of selecting the correct bitdepth and sample frequency for each audio device. Each audio device will have "Advanced" tab with default format and I think windows defaults to 16/44.1, you might be loosing information or simply capturing nothing because being so different than source. Also depending on VB-audio or voicemeeter the program itself does Internal sampling 










idk if 2000/XP have this option and would recommend Audio Repeater of some kind if you plan on using that


EDIT: So your example. 

1. Cable Input will be 16-bit / 44.1 - 48 Khz (for overwatch and emulators need that special format to playback correctly) and "default audio device". 
1a. Internally VB-audio does have selectable sample frequency and this is up to you on what frequency you want (from main exe)
2. Cable output will be 24-bit / 48 Khz and "listen to this device" -> Soundcard
2a. Now whatever media center or player you use select your soundcard instead of WASAPI so it will always output directly to soundcard with 24-bit 48khz




> ASIO
> ASIO is a sound card communication system created by Steinberg.
> 
> If your soundcard has a native ASIO driver, this is the most direct (and normally best) way to communicate with it.
> 
> Please note that ASIO4All is basically Kernel Streaming with an ASIO wrapper. There's no good reason to use ASIO + ASIO4All vs just using Kernel Streaming directly in Media Center.
> 
> WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API)
> WASAPI is a hardware communication system in Vista, Windows 7, and newer. When used in exclusive mode, the Windows system mixer is bypassed, but other applications cannot simultaneously use the audio device.
> 
> Kernel Streaming
> Kernel Streaming is a hardware direct way to speak directly to a WDM audio driver. It works on XP, so is useful when the above two options are not possible.
> 
> Direct Sound
> This is Windows default and the most compatible output method. It plays through the system mixer. This means all formats will be converted by Windows to the native format of the card. It is highly compatible, but it is not the highest quality method.
> 
> Wave Out
> This is a legacy output mode. With some misbehaved hardware, it may work better than DirectSound.


----------



## PurpleChef

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 1809 (OS Build 17763.316)

This is all the steps ive done on my fresh win installation:

1. Windows update + Driverbooster/Driversolution etc
(Open CMD--gpedit.msc--Computer Configuration--Administrative Templates--Windows COmponents--Windows Update--Configure Automatic Updates(click on it)--Click on disable)
2. Disable Windows Update 
3. Settings > Themes > Desktop icon settings > computer/controll panel
4. Disable remote assistance
5. Turn off mouse acceleration. Enhance pointer precision Off.
6. Control Panel > AutoPlay off
7. User Account Controll setting off
8. Defrag > Scheduled optimization Off
9. Control Panel > Indexing Options > Internet Explorer History Uncheck
10. Search > Xbox > Xbox live settings > All Off
11. Computer > System > Performance > Settings > Uncheck

Animations
Fades
Show under mouse pointer
Slide open combo boxes
12. Computer > Adv > System protection Off
13. Services to turn off:
Connected User Experiences and Telementy
Delivery Optimization
Payments and NFC/SE Manager 
Update Orchestrator Service

14. File explorer > view > options > Show hidden files Yes > Hide extensions NO
15. Settings > Privacy > 
Feedback frequency > Never
All off that you dont use
16. Apps > remove all you dont need or use
17. Settings > Ease off access > Show transparency in Windows, and reminders etc.
18. Disable hibernation. Cmd > powercfg –h off
19. Nvidia Panel > vsync off > shader cache off

I do have some questions tho:
1. Do you find that TCPOptimizer help your online gaming experience?
2. Does Nagle’s Algorithm / Network Throttling Index Off actually help or any other settings in "optimzed" ?
3. Is it worth to change Multimedia Class Scheduler / GPU Priority to 8 for gaming/ "Priority” set to 6 for gaming. ?
4. Is it worth to change anything under Advanced Network Adapter Settings ? i do uncheck the powersaving stuffs. Some ppl on internet say flow control and interupt moderation should be turned off for gaming.
5. Tba


Did i miss anything? is there anything else i can do?


----------



## BroadPwns

Question should be - did it change a damn thing. Except for disabling Game Mode there is barely anything that can actually change anything.


----------



## PurpleChef

BroadPwns said:


> Question should be - did it change a damn thing. Except for disabling Game Mode there is barely anything that can actually change anything.


Really, after hundreds of pages and youre gonna come with this again. Dont waste your time. Dont waste our time.


----------



## x7007

Those are some of the issues I had causing Stuttering or such, some of them are just making sure power stuff won't ruin turning off/on devices like Hard Disks too much.

The best settings for non stuttering games : 

Advanced Windows Settings 
=----------------------------------=

Windows 10 x64 / Windows Game Mode On
Disable HPET in Bios
CMD >Bcdedit 
Add this command for better mouse accuracy and less lag input : Bcdedit /set disabledynamictick Yes
Make sure you don't have any UsePlatformClock or useplatformtick 
If more than 4 cores , Select core starts from 2 , uncheck Core 0 and 1 . Test if game works better with HT or SMT or without using MSI AfterBurner watching CPU Usage or this site https://gamegpu.com/ , they already taken the tests for CPU Core/HT/SMT and GPU tests
Asmedia USB3 Drivers are not installed and disabled in the Device Manager, I enable when I need.
Logitech Drivers are not installed
Network Drivers / SolareFlare newest
Sound cards Eclaro PCIE newest drivers and Creative SXFI USB AMP 


POWER SETTINGS 
=----------------------------------=

Make sure you use Windows Power Options High Performance or Ultimate Performance and AHCI LINK set to Active and don't turn harddisk after 0 minutes .
Also Minimum Processor State at least 90% or 100% 
Nvidia - Power Management for each game > change Prefer Maximum performance
AMD - I don't know what they have
IMPORTANT !! GPU FAN SETTINGS -(Also check if it causing you issues without MSI AfterBurner) if you have stuttering or very small fps drops while using MSI AfterBurner or such , make sure to use :
IMPORTANT !! Enable User defined software automatic fan control Custom /Change it as you would like to GPU won't overheat - 5000 ms TH -/c 0 Force Fan Speed update on each period On
Also check your GPU overclock, for me max was Core 2050 Mhz , as soon I passed it I got error 1080gtx card unplugged error which is Nvidia display driver reset .

BIOS AND GENERA SETTINGS
=----------------------------------=

Disable Global State -C6 Power from Bios and all other Power savings . Might Need to be Enabled on Asus Mobo for some reason I don't remember
Make sure X.M.P is used .

Make sure CPU Voltage is set to Offset and know how much by testing stability with prime95 or AIDA64 Stability test .

Select Voltage Load Balanced to at least Medium from Auto , for both CPU and SB

Disable APM for SSD if there is and also for Harddisk , using Hard.Disk.Sentinel and also Registry or CrystalDiskInfo7 

Disable all Overlays including Windows Game Overlay , expect Msi Afterburner , and don't enable Voltage monitoring or such 

Replace crap TIM on GPU if it overheats

Check Latencymon for any unnecessary DPC driver issues or any hardware that might causing Delay to CPU and eventually freezing / Stuttering in Sound and Video

If you have AVAST or AVG Antivirus Uninstall because they are crap , ESET or AVIRA are better


----------



## BUFUMAN

Some good tips but I would not recommend to play with timers on windows 10 1809. It's useless because it won't change anymore. It's a fixed timer now.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Scoty

I have a Gigabyte z390 Board, which settings are the best for this?


----------



## RamenRider

PurpleChef said:


> Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 1809 (OS Build 17763.316)
> 
> I do have some questions tho:
> 1. Do you find that TCPOptimizer help your online gaming experience?
> 2. Does Nagle’s Algorithm / Network Throttling Index Off actually help or any other settings in "optimzed" ?
> 3. Is it worth to change Multimedia Class Scheduler / GPU Priority to 8 for gaming/ "Priority” set to 6 for gaming. ?
> 4. Is it worth to change anything under Advanced Network Adapter Settings ? i do uncheck the powersaving stuffs. Some ppl on internet say flow control and interupt moderation should be turned off for gaming.
> 5. Tba
> 
> Did i miss anything? is there anything else i can do?


1. Idk, placebo felt hella good when I played fortnite. Hit a bunch of my shots.
2. Only other thing I use is RSS and that one Checksum that is required for RSS and increase Recieve and Transmit buffers to max 2048.
3. Idk, but i do it anyways. 
4. Yeah I do those too. But I keep most of the other stuff on cause I want to remote control my PC when away.
5. Honestly biggest thing you can do is disable fullscreen optimization for all your favorite games/apps.
6. AMD Gpus only. Dislplay > Specs > Override > Set voltage swing and Premphesis to max(2).

There's a bunch of tweaks I wanna try out. Like why is there a [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Low Latency]
folder for win8 but not win 10? And also there's Audio, Pro, Audio, and PostProcessing(can we delete this one?)


----------



## Infection11

i have gigabyte b450m ds3h
what the best settings for me?


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## SuperMumrik

Hi guys


This is somewhat OT, but I guess it's the right crowd.


What is your thought about resolution scale? 

I have an oc'ed 2080Ti so I got GPU headrom since I use mostly competative settings for online shooters.


To the issue; even though fps stays the same (more or less) I start missing way more shots when res scale is above native res. Like there is input lag of some sort
Fps is typically in the 200ish range. 

Could be in my head though


----------



## Calypto

SuperMumrik said:


> To the issue; even though fps stays the same (more or less) I start missing way more shots when res scale is above native res. Like there is input lag of some sort
> Fps is typically in the 200ish range.
> 
> Could be in my head though


Anything that causes additional processing will cause additional latency.


----------



## blodflekk

SuperMumrik said:


> Hi guys
> 
> 
> This is somewhat OT, but I guess it's the right crowd.
> 
> 
> What is your thought about resolution scale?
> 
> I have an oc'ed 2080Ti so I got GPU headrom since I use mostly competative settings for online shooters.
> 
> 
> To the issue; even though fps stays the same (more or less) I start missing way more shots when res scale is above native res. Like there is input lag of some sort
> Fps is typically in the 200ish range.
> 
> Could be in my head though


Well obviously if the res scale is above 100% its going to be rendering the image above the native res and downsampling to match the native res, anytime you jack something like this up you're going to be using more resources. 1080p with res scale at 1.5 = 2k, 1080p @ 2 = 4k. 

It definitely improves the visual quality and I use it on all my games, but if you're playing competitively and performance is your priority then you definitely want it left at 100%, along with many other nvidia control panel tweaks.


----------



## Hannes969

Hello 



I have problem mit my Mouse or windows... it is the Logitech G502. 

Suddenly my mouse sensivity changed to a bit higher sense that it used to be.I can feel it ingame aswell in windows 10, i have nothing changed, i also looked into the registy mouse control options and all was the same.
The Sensivity always changed to a bit higher. It always exist after some restart of the pc 

I only play cs go.

What i have already tried: 

-Deinstall Logitech Gaming Software
-disabled Mouse acceleration on any system (CS:GO also rawinput 1) 

-disabled (hopefully) Windows Gamebar / Recording ... Any Windows Apps deinstalled, removed Onedrive 

-Switched USP Ports to Usp 2.0 

-disabled Windows Sync Settings 

-disabled any apps Services that a "gaming" pc dont really need
-reinstalled Nvidia Driver with ddu tool 

-disabled in Bios AsMedia 3.1 Ports, Onboard Soud, Lights. 

-reinstalled mouse driver (logitech, windows) 



- disabled fullscreen optimation
.... 



Do you know any bug of the logitech software because i also tried it without but after some time the problem still exists. 



I also have the samsung usb mic ? Could this also be an problem ? 



On the mouse movement tester when i move my mouse fast sometimes it shoes over 1000 hz ist this normal ?
And sometimes the mouse movement recorder shows not always the same data what mointer movement and mouse movement is ?


----------



## BUFUMAN

Hmm up to 1000hz is normal but 1200hz??

I have the same mouse my settings won't change byself.

Do you use internal memory on g502 or system?

I only use internal memory and never installed any logitech driver afterwards..



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----------



## BUFUMAN

This was wrong


----------



## Igor777

Hello. Sorry for my English.Help please!!!
Windows 10 system home license
Computer
Asus prime z370-p
I5 8400
Gtx 1050ti
MEM 8gb
power supply 700 power
I need to achieve minimum DPC or Latency
What I've done:
1) Updated Lan drivers, realteck audio, nvidia 419version, intel сhip, bios / uefi 2019 firmware
2) Windows configured, a lot was done I will not begin to comb.
UEFI / BIOS did not configure because I do not know how to configure UEFI. Look at my screenshots and tell me what you can do. Likely if UEFI to adjust an indicator will fall?


----------



## Igor777

*Input lag optimization UEFI/BIOS*

Hello. Sorry for my english.
Windows 10 system home license
Computer
Asus prime z370-p
I5 8400
Gtx 1050ti
MEM 8gb
power supply 700 power
I need to achieve minimum DPC or Latency
What I've done:
1) Updated Lan drivers, realteck audio, nvidia 419version, intel сhip, bios / uefi 2019 firmware
2) Windows configured, a lot was done I will not begin to comb.
UEFI / BIOS did not configure because I do not know how to configure UEFI. Look at my screenshots and tell me what you can do. Likely if UEFI to adjust an indicator will fall?


----------



## BUFUMAN

Looks good so far. They fu up Windows so much we can't do anything against it.

Do you have sound issues??

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## x7007

For some reason somehow my mouse return to be like clown mode in windows. it's not accurate when moving slow or fast . it was working just fine like 2 years. no update been the last couple of days , not change in drivers . it just started for some reason. it's not the mouse because I checked other G502 . it's not the mouse pad, I cleaned and replaced . I tried other USB Slots.

So freaking weird. and it's randomly fine for when I uplift the mouse high and then use it again it's fine for couple seconds and then it's not accurate again. I had this issue long time ago, I have no idea what fixed it and now that it returned .

Only thing I messed is with some fan cables, but I disconnect some and didn't plug others .




It's like the mouse is floating , usually it's not accurate when I try to stop on something and to click . then it just stops before or just go after it. before this issue happened it was accurate . It happens on DESKTOP and not just in games , that's what annoying.


----------



## PurpleChef

Is there any such thing as better nvidia driver for fps/latency then the latest one? im on old gtx760.
@x7007 Did you solve your problem? Win10? Win10 try to update even tho i turned it of in several settings and with several tools.
Im almost feeling like going back to W7 again. It will prolly have user updates after the support due to the love for the OS.
The only thing i feel works better on w10 is windowed fullscreen. Mouse polling ra te was more stable also.

Is there such thing as ATI radeon pro software for Nvidia cards? i want to squeeze every fps of this old card ^^
@Igor DPCLatency checker is not for for W10 afaik. Use latencymon. Dosnt show any problems from your screenshot.
just disable everything you dont use and disconnect stuff you dont need for gaming, usb that is.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> 
> I have problem mit my Mouse or windows... it is the Logitech G502.
> 
> Suddenly my mouse sensivity changed to a bit higher sense that it used to be.I can feel it ingame aswell in windows 10, i have nothing changed, i also looked into the registy mouse control options and all was the same.
> The Sensivity always changed to a bit higher. It always exist after some restart of the pc
> 
> I only play cs go.
> 
> What i have already tried:
> 
> -Deinstall Logitech Gaming Software
> -disabled Mouse acceleration on any system (CS:GO also rawinput 1)
> 
> -disabled (hopefully) Windows Gamebar / Recording ... Any Windows Apps deinstalled, removed Onedrive
> 
> -Switched USP Ports to Usp 2.0
> 
> -disabled Windows Sync Settings
> 
> -disabled any apps Services that a "gaming" pc dont really need
> -reinstalled Nvidia Driver with ddu tool
> 
> -disabled in Bios AsMedia 3.1 Ports, Onboard Soud, Lights.
> 
> -reinstalled mouse driver (logitech, windows)
> 
> 
> 
> - disabled fullscreen optimation
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know any bug of the logitech software because i also tried it without but after some time the problem still exists.
> 
> 
> 
> I also have the samsung usb mic ? Could this also be an problem ?
> 
> 
> 
> On the mouse movement tester when i move my mouse fast sometimes it shoes over 1000 hz ist this normal ?
> And sometimes the mouse movement recorder shows not always the same data what mointer movement and mouse movement is ?





PurpleChef said:


> Is there any such thing as better nvidia driver for fps/latency then the latest one? im on old gtx760.
> 
> @x7007 Did you solve your problem? Win10? Win10 try to update even tho i turned it of in several settings and with several tools.
> Im almost feeling like going back to W7 again. It will prolly have user updates after the support due to the love for the OS.
> The only thing i feel works better on w10 is windowed fullscreen. Mouse polling ra te was more stable also.
> 
> Is there such thing as ATI radeon pro software for Nvidia cards? i want to squeeze every fps of this old card ^^
> 
> @Igor DPCLatency checker is not for for W10 afaik. Use latencymon. Dosnt show any problems from your screenshot.
> just disable everything you dont use and disconnect stuff you dont need for gaming, usb that is.




It's funny

He says he has same issue



Anyway , not yet, but I think my mouse sensor screwed up . it showing some weird painting when moving the mouse very very fast , like the sensor crapping out on all sides creating some weird movement. in the paint I can see it happens. so I think even in slow dpi 400 it happens, then it would happen any movement I do with the mouse. I have other G502 which doesn't show this issue. 

I ordered new G502 Hero and G903 because it was so cheap just to have backup mouses when needed.

Hannnes , do you have any other mouse to check in paint for example ? try to move ur mouse so fast to see if you have weird painting or I don't know how to call it. Weird lines or out of the ordinary


Another weird thing I am thinking is Fan Speed from the motherboard, sometimes I feel when I hear the fan speed high the mouse speed is better I am sure it's not placebo, but it happens for short intervals so I can't really know for sure.


To be more accurate banging the mouse on the bottom makes it better right after, and the issue with top and button still happens, so for me it seems it could be the mouse and some other adjusted things that I might did .


----------



## x7007

Guys....... Did anyone tested LLC ? Load-Line Calibration

You need to use Normal it seems .....

I had mine on High for both CPU and Chipset and it screwed my mouse and very randomly Keyboard keys . I just now used Normal and the mouse finally back to normal . I think that's what makes difference between Laptops and Desktop , Laptops doesn't have this options.


----------



## PurpleChef

x7007 said:


> Guys....... Did anyone tested LLC ? Load-Line Calibration
> 
> You need to use Normal it seems .....
> 
> I had mine on High for both CPU and Chipset and it screwed my mouse and very randomly Keyboard keys . I just now used Normal and the mouse finally back to normal . I think that's what makes difference between Laptops and Desktop , Laptops doesn't have this options.


But i need it for my overclock. I dont have any mouse issues with it on. i rather use my cpu @ 4.4 overclocked then standard 3.4.

Anyone still think W7 is best?


----------



## x7007

PurpleChef said:


> But i need it for my overclock. I dont have any mouse issues with it on. i rather use my cpu @ 4.4 overclocked then standard 3.4.
> 
> Anyone still think W7 is best?


Ye my friend also said he doesn't have issue with LLC, he has Intel puter . I am not sure what could be the issue, it worked fine for 4-5 months ... I don't know what changed.


----------



## x7007

The test I did is testing the USB DPC/ISR directly from the file , passing all and any other software issue that might be. which shows the real problem was something in the bios which I fixed. I deleted the compared test, the before one. so I only have the fixed one.

But to get you the numbers I will show it on the picture. The before was almost 500 of utilization of what's it called using-exit-using which caused the mouse to lag in the way I felt .

So some issues are bios issue and usually u need and better start from there.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Nice result for you. But what did you change?

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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Nice result for you. But what did you change?
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



both Cpu LLC and Vcore Soc LLC regular instead High but still need 5o check CPU high or other because of my overclock or just CPU LLC doesn't cause issue to other people.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Thanks. I will test it. 

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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Thanks. I will test it.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



Sec still testing, it might not the LLC CPU. 

So many factors need to check.

So check with Windows Performance Recorder without Pool usage , having 60 ms, meaning it might not checking some drivers . Having Pool Usage checked havin 150ms . double the number, means another driver is checked . 

Can you guys tell me if you have this registry key on 0 or 1 . 0 should be Default . I had it on 1 and after I change it I feel the mouse is more accurate . because this key should do something with the Pool, even though my MS time stayed the same.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000000


----------



## BUFUMAN

Can you provide the steps to test it with Resources tool?

You also have AMD setup with a logitech Mouse g502....right?

I am thinking about 2 other possible issues.

-My Corsair RGB 75 Rapid fire keyboard (without software)

-144hz Display


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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Can you provide the steps to test it with Resources tool?
> 
> You also have AMD setup with a logitech Mouse g502....right?
> 
> I am thinking about 2 other possible issues.
> 
> -My Corsair RGB 75 Rapid fire keyboard (without software)
> 
> -144hz Display
> 
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


ye I have G502 and G903

I posted guide here 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/11-...9-gaming-7-owners-thread-11.html#post27922034


----------



## BUFUMAN

Thanks mate. This is something i really like to solve to.
But i think it isn't in our hands.

My mouse "feeling" is without any issues. I just have lockups/hitches.

This makes me crazy 



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----------



## BUFUMAN

here my report. hmm asm must be asmedia 3.1 driver because of the usb lag issues i am only on this usb port.
why?

Only for this port they are drivers available! AMD Chipste won't install any FU usb driver, like the FU Sata Port....


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> here my report. hmm asm must be asmedia 3.1 driver because of the usb lag issues i am only on this usb port.
> why?
> 
> Only for this port they are drivers available! AMD Chipste won't install any FU usb driver, like the FU Sata Port....


Wow omg, yes , you reach 1500 ms ... that's super laggy....

Filter it out. right click on it and filter it .

try not to connect anything to the asmedia usb ports .

AMD doesn't need USB drivers , they are using Standard Microsoft also you don't need the SATA drivers if you use AHCI , that's fine. 

I see you have many SYS drivers, do you know which is each ? I was lazy to search which is easy... so if you could do that and tell us 

rcraid.sys
IDsvia64.sys
symnets.sys
SRTSP64.sys
BHDrvx64.sys
bowser.sys



you have only G502 Mouse ? Do you have Logitech gaming software installed ? Corsair ICUE installed ? what other devices you have connected to any usb ports ? Like AIO cooling or anything, Headphones..



Another things to check.

Make sure you have C6 Global State disable and any other power saving state in the bios .
Do you have Cool & Quiet enabled ?
Do you have High Performance selected ? Make sure Minimum Core is 100% 
Make sure Turn off After X time is 0 
Use this to see that your harddisk is ACTIVE and not using any power saving - https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...-ahci-link-power-management-windows-10-a.html
Try to Disable USB Selective Suspend 

One of you USB devices or the Driver is causing too much interrupts and causing your CPU to hold other process making them freeze.


----------



## BUFUMAN

x7007 said:


> Wow omg, yes , you reach 1500 ms ... that's super laggy....
> 
> Filter it out. right click on it and filter it .
> 
> try not to connect anything to the asmedia usb ports .
> 
> AMD doesn't need USB drivers , they are using Standard Microsoft also you don't need the SATA drivers if you use AHCI , that's fine.
> 
> I see you have many SYS drivers, do you know which is each ? I was lazy to search which is easy... so if you could do that and tell us
> 
> rcraid.sys
> IDsvia64.sys
> symnets.sys
> SRTSP64.sys
> BHDrvx64.sys
> bowser.sys
> 
> 
> 
> you have only G502 Mouse ? Do you have Logitech gaming software installed ? Corsair ICUE installed ? what other devices you have connected to any usb ports ? Like AIO cooling or anything, Headphones..
> 
> 
> 
> Another things to check.
> 
> Make sure you have C6 Global State disable and any other power saving state in the bios .
> Do you have Cool & Quiet enabled ?
> Do you have High Performance selected ? Make sure Minimum Core is 100%
> Make sure Turn off After X time is 0
> Use this to see that your harddisk is ACTIVE and not using any power saving - https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...-ahci-link-power-management-windows-10-a.html
> Try to Disable USB Selective Suspend
> 
> One of you USB devices or the Driver is causing too much interrupts and causing your CPU to hold other process making them freeze.







i life with that since a win update. long time ago.

I installed this time the latest raid drivers from amd without useing a raid > AHCI mode / ACTIVE LINK Mode for all power settings.
> Win 10 1809 Ent. without Apps, Privacy controlled
> Samsung NVME v3.1 driver
> ASMEDIA USB 3.1 v1.0.5.3 / i have the same issue with AMD USB Ports thats why i testing ASMEDIA Chip
> Logitech G502 only on Internal Memory without Software /1000hz (i tried all HZ steps) /no mouse acc.
> Corsair RGB 75 Rapid only on Internal Memory Mode 250HZ (i tried all HZ steps)
> Process Lasso 
> Park Control
> Creative AE5 with latest crap dirver  / used onboard for testing only and a Titanium HD a while ago > same issue 
> My Device are Set as MSI > Check Picture
> Norton IS 2018 (without same issue)
> Disabled all Windows defender exploit stuff
> MSI Afterburner (without same issue)
> Latest Nvidia driver (HD Audio Disabled)
> Asus XG32VQ @144hz (miniDP)
> MS Studio HD WEBCAM

rcraid.sys > AMD Raid
IDsvia64.sys > no clue > will check google
symnets.sys > Norton IS
SRTSP64.sys > Norton IS
BHDrvx64.sys > Norton IS
bowser.sys > Norton IS

C6 enabled/diasbled same issue.
All USB Settings are on full power, no suspend allowed (at any power setting to)
I allways shutdown complete, no fastboot (UEFI/Power Settings)
Cool n quite > pstats useing

One of you USB devices or the Driver is causing too much interrupts and causing your CPU to hold other process making them freeze > i will try default USB Ports to CPU direct, again.

thanks mate this is the first time where i can pinpoint the issue with your help. cheers!!


----------



## BUFUMAN

Update with AMD USB only 2 device are connected. Mouse and Keyboard. I can't do anything with this information. atm


----------



## BUFUMAN

No chance. I removed all devices used a touchpad same issue. 

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----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> No chance. I removed all devices used a touchpad same issue.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



my mouse sometimes freeze when I open display settings. 
where else does it freeze?


----------



## BUFUMAN

TeamSpeak, Steam always at first start. Second start is fine without lags.


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----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> TeamSpeak, Steam always at first start. Second start is fine without lags.
> 
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



Use LatencyMon please for like 10 minutes , opening all the things that freeze , take screenshot of the Main , Process, Drivers, CPUs

What is your BCDEDIT settings ?
Do you have HPET Enabled in the bios ?
Please Disable Cool&Quiet and All the CSTATE , you don't want them.


Start > CMD Run as Admin > Bcdedit


----------



## BUFUMAN

I am at work atm. I disabled hpet.

Will check again and report.

Thanks mate.

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----------



## x7007

I think also somethings in the windows sometimes change and doesn't revert .

for example even without using or changing any command.

Adding those commands change the way the mouse move

bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

Even though it didn't change any performance in the synthetic test for example TimerBench 1.3.3 . becauses microsoft actually set 1 and only standard QPC Timer which is 10 Mhz , don't know exactly which timer it is , but in Wikipedia it was said it is HPET , even though it supposed to be 14.xx Mhz .

That's the only thing I can think of that mess the mouse movement , something in the windows Timer or something messed with it after shutdown or restart and it doesn't detect the proper one. 

There is too much mix to it . HPET enabled/disabled bios , Tick yes/no , tcs Standard/Enhanced


My guess is on laptop it never change , that's why I didn't have issues on my laptop, though I do way more things on the desktop , so something could contribute to this changes. 

Another thing the DisablePaging Registry I said , really helps the mouse to be more accurate.


----------



## BUFUMAN

i really hate this system. Now i did everything Full Power, Disabled C6 / PSTATS, AMD Chipset uninstalled, ASMEDIA disabled, tried allmost every FU usb Port.

I hate HPET to. but it is off. no clue anymore. sell that **** go back to win7?


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> i really hate this system. Now i did everything Full Power, Disabled C6 / PSTATS, AMD Chipset uninstalled, ASMEDIA disabled, tried allmost every FU usb Port.
> 
> I hate HPET to. but it is off. fu no clue anymore. sell that **** go back to win7?


By the pictures it seems that you have the same latency as me in the Indepth Latency.

can you tell me exactly what is the issue you experience ? expect when opening the Display Settings, I mean randomly I have it too . it could be Nvidia driver thing, I don't know about AMD Display Drivers. but what else ? 

Can you capture it so I will understand what we need to look for exactly.

also why you have only 15 Cores ? did you disable SMT ? don't disable it
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/in-depth-latency-test-ryzen-latency-help.422352/page-2

I've found this thread, I don't know how this guy has such low Latency with the same processor.


----------



## BUFUMAN

SMT is on disabling it is nonsens  CPU 0 -15 (16Cores) 

most issue is when opening Programs like Steam, teamspeak, display settings, timerbench, latency Monitor. 
very slow boot on a nvme. befor the system boots all lights on my input device go off (Kb and Mouse)
if i play with my G25 any racing game sometimes the games lockup to.

i think its related to the different modules, interfaces (i call it this way) when the program requests the information like form GPU or Soundcard. 
If you open Windows Display Settings for the first time after a fresh boot, the program requests the information. Thats why i have this lockup. If you close that window and try again its fast like it should be, because its stored now.
If you start Steam or Teamspeak the software request the information from soundcard, and this end in a Lockup to. If you close that window and try again its fast like it should be.

I/O issue?

Windows HDR Settings?

144Hz Display maybe?

MY Disk? No i have 4x850 SSD's tried all. thought it is the SATA Port > bought NVME > had issues with windows to boot, because of a windows update bug. Didn't read that infomartion in december 2018 and send my new nvm 970evo back to reseller. same issue with the new one.
I spent money to solve it, did not help. 
now i am at the end of my Latinum  (german proverb)


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> SMT is on disabling it is nonsens  CPU 0 -15 (16Cores)
> 
> most issue is when opening Programs like Steam, teamspeak, display settings, timerbench, latency Monitor.
> very slow boot on a nvme. befor the system boots all lights on my input device go off (Kb and Mouse)
> if i play with my G25 any racing game sometimes the games lockup to.
> 
> i think its related to the different modules, interfaces (i call it this way) when the program requests the information like form GPU or Soundcard.
> If you open Windows Display Settings for the first time after a fresh boot, the program requests the information. Thats why i have this lockup. If you close that window and try again its fast like it should be, because its stored now.
> If you start Steam or Teamspeak the software request the information from soundcard, and this end in a Lockup to. If you close that window and try again its fast like it should be.
> 
> I/O issue?
> 
> Windows HDR Settings?
> 
> 144Hz Display maybe?
> 
> MY Disk? No i have 4x850 SSD's tried all. thought it is the SATA Port > bought NVME > had issues with windows to boot, because of a windows update bug. Didn't read that infomartion in december 2018 and send my new nvm 970evo back to reseller. same issue with the new one.
> I spent money to solve it, did not help.
> now i am at the end of my Latinum  (german proverb)


Please Re enable HPET , and show me the BCDEDIT command . you didn't take a picture.

I tested now , for me opening Display settings right after boot there is no freeze or anything.

Did this issue happened when you had the computer first time ? or it just begun after updates and such ? 
Did you ever update the firmware ?
Because with Gigabyte anything than the default firmware it arrive or I think just 1 version after I update it , anything newer cut my performance , slow my computer to crawl and cut 40% of the bios memory special cpu settings, they just gone . so I am staying with the F3G which is the best for me. Make sure if you update or not, try to update and see, if u did update and all the problem begun then, downgrade to lower firmware.

Can you test something for me ?

Do you have the MotherBoard LED code ? for me sometimes it shows 3A I think or A3 , I forgot just now. and now it shows AA . I have no idea why it changes , it happened couple of times before, but I can't always follow when it change, to pin point the thing that makes it change. but I think it could be one of the bios settings or it could be something with cables . I am testing it right now.

Also can you check your fan connections ? how many fans do you have ? what is your cooler ? which each one is connected to ? are they PWM , are you using any fan splitters ?

Do you use UMA Creatore mode Distributed or NUMA Mode Channel ? Make sure you use NUMA , the channel mode in the bios.
How much Ram do you have ? how many slots in use ? Quad or Dual ?

Where is your Windows Paging File resident ? C:\ ? how much paging file do you set to ?

Did you test the Registry did I told you ?

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000000


Also can you not use Symantec Antivirus ? I know it causing a lot of issues. try other antivirus like Eset or Avira , the only ones I tested with no visible issue on both my laptop and desktop .

Also please don't mess with the MSI mode, we have AMD system , it has so many resources it knows when to use or not, it always driver dependent so if you don't have the driver support it could cause issues. Do default for all devices as it is , do not change anything in the MSI.

I will give you the feedback I think it is. just from a simple view, it could be a totally other thing we didn't check anything yet .

Bios settings / Bios Firmware 
Software in Windows / Windows Settings
Fans / Fan Connections / Fans Control 
Nvme Firmware / Drivers / does it has new firmware/Drivers ?
Raid Drivers / if you can to change to AHCI
Do you have APM Harddisk supported ? did you try to disable them with HDD Sentinel or CrystalDiskInfo ?


----------



## BUFUMAN

i installed OS new last night. At the moment the nvidia driver are installed the problem starts. I tried the new Nvidia DCH driver also.

It was a clean install. no other Software/Drivers where installed. no win updates.
I will RMA everything.


----------



## BUFUMAN

RMA for Nvidia and Mainboard is set. I will RMA CPU also.


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> RMA for Nvidia and Mainboard is set. I will RMA CPU also.



OK please keep us posted with the updates. I really want to know


----------



## BUFUMAN

I will, i do some tests tonight. Deafult Settings at Bios without PCIE Soundcard and lose timmings.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Mate like you recognize i don't give up. Check this thread. 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...hare_tid=1624603&share_fid=10608&share_type=t

But i will report here to. I am not the only one out there with that issue. 



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----------



## BUFUMAN

Sorry for the odd link.

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----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Sorry for the odd link.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


I don't know which is the best bios for us to use...

Should we use F10 or F11 ? because we don't get the spectre protection or optimization . but those bioses have other weird bugs.


----------



## BUFUMAN

I don't know mate. I am at the latest one.

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----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> I don't know mate. I am at the latest one.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


can you go into the bios and see if you have all the options ? like in NB place where all the AUTO things

in the M.I.T > Advanced CPU Core Settings all those sub menus , are they all full ? there should be like 5 I think

What is the code on the LED shown after you boot to windows ? AA or something with A3 or 3A or 33 ?

Also can you check the Inspector file so I see if the newest bios fix it ?









https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm


----------



## x7007

Can you check those things for me ? anyone ?


----------



## BUFUMAN

Mate tonight, but many of your settings are not at x370 chipset btw.
I will provide you my Bios setting list.
You can compare it.

I am on windows 10 1709 without any winbloat update i disabled everything. 

With QPC 3.711mhz system clock. 

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----------



## BUFUMAN

I did not forget you, sry was unable to do it.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Mate tonight, but many of your settings are not at x370 chipset btw.
> I will provide you my Bios setting list.
> You can compare it.
> 
> I am on windows 10 1709 without any winbloat update i disabled everything.
> 
> With QPC 3.711mhz system clock.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



Ha I forgot you don't have AMD system . it will be different.

Why do you use Windows 1709 ??? On Windows 1809 the timer is different , we would not be able to compare or fix your issues if you are not using 1809 .. soon there will be 1903. I suggest you update it. espically with the meltdown and spectre security holes on Intel CPUS

Another thing I think causing Lag Input , is Wireless , even if you are not using Wireless mouse or anything , it will output noise which cause those weird issues. 
My wireless 2.4 was set to Auto Detect channel and somehow it was working fine and suddenly not , after I change Frequency or Channel and rebooted the router the weird lag input disappeared ...

Another weird thing that happened to me, the router was on some kind of position, not straight and it's on my UPS (APC) when I first connected my G903 and used the wireless I heard some humming or buzzing noises every time I move the mouse , it was freaking weird . moving the router a bit somehow made it stopped . I had no idea what was happening on the same time. it could be also because the 2.4 was set to AUTO detect channel then they were somehow using the same frequency and reboot to the router change it but I can't remember exactly the steps that I did . but it's ok now


----------



## Calypto

On AMD, HPET should be enabled in Device Manager and BIOS for optimal smoothness, useplatformclock disabled. SMT should be disabled, and downcore set to 4+0 for minimal latency. You do not buy Ryzen for low latency. You pay the price by having to disable half of your cores.


----------



## x7007

Calypto said:


> On AMD, HPET should be enabled in Device Manager and BIOS for optimal smoothness, useplatformclock disabled. SMT should be disabled, and downcore set to 4+0 for minimal latency. You do not buy Ryzen for low latency. You pay the price by having to disable half of your cores.




You sure about that ?

2.1.4. Windows 7/8/8.1/10 and Server 2008 R2/2012/2012 R2/2016
Time services on windows have undergone changes with any new version of Windows. Considerable changes are to be reported beyond VISTA and Server 2008. The synchronous progress in hardware and software development requires the software to stay compatible with a whole variety of hardware platforms. On the other hand new hardware enables the software to conquer better performance. Today's hardware provides the High Precision Event Timer (HPET) and an invariant Time Stamp Counter (TSC). The variety of timers is described in "Guidelines For Providing Multimedia Timer Support". The "IA-PC HPET Specification" is now more than 10 years old and some of the goals have not yet been reached (e.g. aperiodic interrupts). While QueryPerformanceCounter benefited using the HPET/TSC when compared to ACPI PM timer, these days the HPET is outdated by the invariant TSC for many applications. However, the typical HPET signature (TimeIncrement of the function GetSystemTimeAdjustment() and MinimumResolution of the function NtQueryTimerResolution() are 156001) disappeared with Windows 8.1. Windows 8.1 goes back to the roots; it goes back to 156250. The TSC frequency is calibrated against HPET periods to finally get proper timekeeping.

An existing invariant TSC influences the behavior of GetSystemTimeAsFileTime() noticeable. The influence to the functions QueryPerformanceCounter() and QueryPerformanceFrequency() is described in sections 2.4.3. and 2.4.4. Windows 8 introduces the function GetSystemTimePreciseAsFileTime() "with the highest possible level of precision (<1us)". This seems the counterpart to the linux gettimeofday() function.

http://www.windowstimestamp.com/description




I noticed something weird ..... as soon as I switch between Power Management profile, the mouse lag input changes in ms or after seconds ... I mean I can feel it literally changes as soon as I just switch between profiles . 

Some of them are different with the settings , but others are the same. The optimum profile is some kind of profile from my Network card SolarFlare , not useable , it just running the cpu 100% usage but not hardcore usage, some kind of soft 100% cpu usage.


----------



## Calypto

Well at least for my 2700x on Windows 7 TSC+HPET results in the smoothest frame delivery. I'm sure the new algorithms in Windows 8.1/10 make better use of the invariant TSC so that you don't even need HPET syncing. However, I'm not going to install Windows 10 just to test it.

Optimal performance disables idle which significantly reduces latency at the cost of much higher energy usage. It should be disabled on a gaming machine anyway. CMD command to see the option in power options:
_powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 5d76a2ca-e8c0-402f-a133-2158492d58ad -ATTRIB_HIDE_


----------



## x7007

Calypto said:


> Well at least for my 2700x on Windows 7 TSC+HPET results in the smoothest frame delivery. I'm sure the new algorithms in Windows 8.1/10 make better use of the invariant TSC so that you don't even need HPET syncing. However, I'm not going to install Windows 10 just to test it.
> 
> Optimal performance disables idle which significantly reduces latency at the cost of much higher energy usage. It should be disabled on a gaming machine anyway. CMD command to see the option in power options:
> _powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 5d76a2ca-e8c0-402f-a133-2158492d58ad -ATTRIB_HIDE_



Ye I am not using it . it just for tests .

Can you please check your Timer Resolution with this tool

https://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool


Mine was 1.99xx with my Eclaro Sound card enabled . minimum 0.9989 , I can't reach 0.5 ms

When I disable my Eclaro device from device manager it reached 15.625 straight . but still it should be 0.5 ms when gaming or there is multimedia , youtube, music,mp3,flac anything or even using Chrome or browser, it only reach minimum 0.9989.

Can you check how much is yours ? 

I am using Windows 10 1809 17763.437


----------



## BUFUMAN

x7007 said:


> Ha I forgot you don't have AMD system . it will be different.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you use Windows 1709 ??? On Windows 1809 the timer is different , we would not be able to compare or fix your issues if you are not using 1809 .. soon there will be 1903. I suggest you update it. espically with the meltdown and spectre security holes on Intel CPUS
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing I think causing Lag Input , is Wireless , even if you are not using Wireless mouse or anything , it will output noise which cause those weird issues.
> 
> My wireless 2.4 was set to Auto Detect channel and somehow it was working fine and suddenly not , after I change Frequency or Channel and rebooted the router the weird lag input disappeared ...
> 
> 
> 
> Another weird thing that happened to me, the router was on some kind of position, not straight and it's on my UPS (APC) when I first connected my G903 and used the wireless I heard some humming or buzzing noises every time I move the mouse , it was freaking weird . moving the router a bit somehow made it stopped . I had no idea what was happening on the same time. it could be also because the 2.4 was set to AUTO detect channel then they were somehow using the same frequency and reboot to the router change it but I can't remember exactly the steps that I did . but it's ok now


Mate pls check my signature.

I am on 1709 because of the qpc timer.
At 1809 its fixed on 10mhz.

I have confirmation on i7 9700k with same issue after boot in combination with a 1080ti that the mouse will freez/lockup for 1 sec to.

It's winbloat 10.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## BUFUMAN

Here is my Bios Setting @ Crosshair VI /Ryzen 1700x :

HPET should be off on AMD Ryzen CPU! its slower.
Disabling SMT is not recommended. 2 Years past since release, it is a old information. 
You can chose the cores with process lasso if you like to and check the fps.

[2019/04/14 15:36:16]
Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
BCLK Frequency [100.0000]
BCLK_Divider [Auto]
CPU Core Ratio [Auto]
Performance Bias [Auto]
Memory Frequency [DDR4-3333MHz]
Core Performance Boost [Disabled]
SMT Mode [Auto]
EPU Power Saving Mode [Disabled]
TPU [Keep Current Settings]
TRC_EOM [Auto]
TRTP_EOM [Auto]
TRRS_S_EOM [Auto]
TRRS_L_EOM [Auto]
TWTR_EOM [Auto]
TWTR_L_EOM [Auto]
TWCL_EOM [Auto]
TWR_EOM [Auto]
TFAW_EOM [Auto]
TRCT_EOM [Auto]
TREFI_EOM [Auto]
TRDRD_DD_EOM [Auto]
TRDRD_SD_EOM [Auto]
TRDRD_SC_EOM [Auto]
TRDRD_SCDLR_EOM [Auto]
TRDRD_SCL_EOM [Auto]
TWRWR_DD_EOM [Auto]
TWRWR_SD_EOM [Auto]
TWRWR_SC_EOM [Auto]
TWRWR_SCDLR_EOM [Auto]
TWRWR_SCL_EOM [Auto]
TWRRD_EOM [Auto]
TRDWR_EOM [Auto]
TWRRD_SCDLR_EOM [Auto]
Mem Over Clock Fail Count [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Read Delay [14]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Write Delay [14]
DRAM RAS# PRE Time [14]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [28]
Trc [42]
TrrdS [4]
TrrdL [4]
Tfaw [16]
TwtrS [4]
TwtrL [12]
Twr [10]
Trcpage [Auto]
TrdrdScl [2]
TwrwrScl [2]
Trfc [266]
Trfc2 [198]
Trfc4 [122]
Tcwl [14]
Trtp [8]
Trdwr [6]
Twrrd [3]
TwrwrSc [1]
TwrwrSd [7]
TwrwrDd [7]
TrdrdSc [1]
TrdrdSd [5]
TrdrdDd [5]
Tcke [2]
ProcODT [48 ohm]
Cmd2T [1T]
Gear Down Mode [Disabled]
Power Down Enable [Disabled]
RttNom [Auto]
RttWr [Auto]
RttPark [Auto]
MemAddrCmdSetup [Auto]
MemCsOdtSetup [Auto]
MemCkeSetup [Auto]
MemCadBusClkDrvStren [Auto]
MemCadBusAddrCmdDrvStren [Auto]
MemCadBusCsOdtDrvStren [Auto]
MemCadBusCkeDrvStren [Auto]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
CPU Current Capability [120%]
CPU VRM Switching Frequency [Manual]
CPU Voltage Frequency [400]
CPU Power Duty Control [T.Probe]
CPU Power Phase Control [Power Phase Response]
Manual Adjustment [Ultra Fast]
CPU Power Thermal Control [120]
VDDSOC Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
VDDSOC Current Capability [130%]
VDDSOC Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed VDDSOC Switching Frequency(KHz) [400]
VDDSOC Phase Control [Power Phase Response]
Manual Adjustment [Ultra Fast]
DRAM Current Capability [120%]
DRAM Power Phase Control [Extreme]
DRAM Switching Frequency [Manual]
Fixed DRAM Switching Frequency(KHz) [400]
DRAM VBoot Voltage [Auto]
VTTDDR Voltage [Auto]
VPP_MEM Voltage [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [Auto]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB [Auto]
VDDP Voltage [Auto]
VDDP Standby Voltage [Auto]
1.8V Standby Voltage [Auto]
CPU 3.3v AUX [Auto]
2.5V SB Voltage [Auto]
DRAM R1 Tune [Auto]
DRAM R2 Tune [Auto]
DRAM R3 Tune [Auto]
DRAM R4 Tune [Auto]
PCIE Tune R1 [Auto]
PCIE Tune R2 [Auto]
PCIE Tune R3 [Auto]
PLL Tune R1 [Auto]
PLL reference voltage [Auto]
T Offset [Auto]
Sense MI Skew [Auto]
Sense MI Offset [Auto]
Promontory presence [Auto]
Clock Amplitude [Auto]
CLDO VDDP voltage [Auto]
CPU Core Voltage [Offset mode]
CPU Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.01875]
CPU SOC Voltage [Manual mode]
- VDDSOC Voltage Override [1.00000]
DRAM Voltage [1.37500]
1.8V PLL Voltage [1.81000]
1.05V SB Voltage [1.06250]
TPM Device Selection [Discrete TPM]
Erase fTPM NV for factory reset [Enabled]
PSS Support [Auto]
SVM Mode [Disabled]
Onboard LED [Enabled]
Q-Code LED Function [Enabled]
Hyper kit Mode [Disabled]
SATA Port Enable [Enabled]
SATA Mode [AHCI]
NVMe RAID mode [Disabled]
SMART Self Test [Enabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Hot Plug [Disabled]
Super I/O Clock Skew [Enabled]
HD Audio Controller [Disabled]
PCIEX4_3 Bandwidth [X4 Mode]
PCIEX8_2：X4/X4 Mode [Auto]
PCIEX16_1 Mode [GEN 3]
PCIEX8_2 Mode [GEN 3]
PCIEX4_3 Mode [GEN 3]
M.2 Link Mode [GEN 3]
SB Link Mode [GEN 3]
Asmedia USB 3.1 Controller [Disabled]
When system is in working state [On]
In sleep, hibernate and soft off states [Off]
Intel LAN Controller [Enabled]
Intel LAN OPROM [Disabled]
USB Type C Power Switch for USB3.1_E1 [Auto]
ErP Ready [Disabled]
Restore On AC Power Loss [Power Off]
Power On By PCI-E/PCI [Disabled]
Power On By RTC [Disabled]
Network Stack [Disabled]
Device [Samsung SSD 840 PRO Series]
Legacy USB Support [Enabled]
XHCI Hand-off [Disabled]
USB Mass Storage Driver Support [Enabled]
USB DISK 2.0 1029 [Auto]
USB3.1_E1 [Disabled]
USB3_1 [Enabled]
USB3_2 [Enabled]
USB3_3 [Enabled]
USB3_4 [Enabled]
USB3_5 [Disabled]
USB3_6 [Disabled]
USB3_7 [Disabled]
USB3_8 [Disabled]
USB3_9 [Disabled]
USB3_10 [Disabled]
USB2_11 [Disabled]
USB2_12 [Disabled]
USB2_13 [Disabled]
USB2_14 [Disabled]
USB_15 [Disabled]
USB_16 [Disabled]
CPU Temperature [Monitor]
MotherBoard Temperature [Monitor]
VRM Temperature [Monitor]
PCH Temperature [Monitor]
T_Sensor1 Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Fan Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed [Monitor]
Chassis Fan 3 Speed [Monitor]
W_PUMP+ Speed [Monitor]
CPU Optional Fan Speed [Monitor]
AIO_PUMP Speed [Monitor]
W_FLOW Speed [Monitor]
W_IN Temperature [Monitor]
W_OUT Temperature [Monitor]
CPU Core Voltage [Monitor]
3.3V Voltage [Monitor]
5V Voltage [Monitor]
12V Voltage [Monitor]
CPU Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
CPU Fan Smoothing Up/Down Time [0 sec]
CPU Fan Speed Lower Limit [200 RPM]
CPU Fan Profile [Manual]
CPU Upper Temperature [60]
CPU Fan Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
CPU Middle Temperature [54]
CPU Fan Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [70]
CPU Lower Temperature [34]
CPU Fan Min. Duty Cycle (%) [55]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
Chassis Fan 1 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 1 Smoothing Up/Down Time [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 1 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 1 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 1 Upper Temperature [60]
Chassis Fan 1 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle Temperature [50]
Chassis Fan 1 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [80]
Chassis Fan 1 Lower Temperature [36]
Chassis Fan 1 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [71]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
Chassis Fan 2 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 2 Smoothing Up/Down Time [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 2 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 2 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 2 Upper Temperature [63]
Chassis Fan 2 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 2 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [71]
Chassis Fan 2 Lower Temperature [45]
Chassis Fan 2 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [54]
Chassis Fan 3 Q-Fan Control [PWM Mode]
Chassis Fan 3 Q-Fan Source [CPU]
Chassis Fan 3 Smoothing Up/Down Time [0 sec]
Chassis Fan 3 Speed Low Limit [200 RPM]
Chassis Fan 3 Profile [Manual]
Chassis Fan 3 Upper Temperature [60]
Chassis Fan 3 Max. Duty Cycle (%) [100]
Chassis Fan 3 Middle Temperature [55]
Chassis Fan 3 Middle. Duty Cycle (%) [71]
Chassis Fan 3 Lower Temperature [45]
Chassis Fan 3 Min. Duty Cycle (%) [54]
AIO_PUMP/W_PUMP+ Control [Disabled]
USB3_1 [Enabled]
USB3_2 [Enabled]
USB3_3 [Enabled]
USB3_4 [Enabled]
PSPP Policy [Auto]
Fast Boot [Enabled]
Next Boot after AC Power Loss [Normal Boot]
AMI Native NVMe Driver Support [Enabled]
Boot Logo Display [Disabled]
POST Report [2 sec]
Boot up NumLock State [Enabled]
Wait For 'F1' If Error [Enabled]
Option ROM Messages [Disabled]
Interrupt 19 Capture [Disabled]
Setup Mode [Advanced Mode]
Launch CSM [Enabled]
Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]
Boot from Storage Devices [UEFI driver first]
Boot from PCI-E Expansion Devices [UEFI driver first]
OS Type [Other OS]
Setup Animator [Disabled]
Load from Profile [1]
Profile Name [mein test]
Save to Profile [1]
CPU Core Voltage [Auto]
VDDSOC Voltage [Auto]
1.8V PLL Voltage [Auto]
BCLK Frequency [Auto]
CPU Ratio [Auto]
DIMM Slot Number [DIMM_A2]
Bus Interface [PCIEX16/X8_1]
RedirectForReturnDis [Auto]
L2 TLB Associativity [Auto]
Platform First Error Handling [Disabled]
Core Performance Boost [Disabled]
Enable IBS [Auto]
Global C-state Control [Enabled]
Power Supply Idle Control [Typical Current Idle]
Opcache Control [Enabled]
Custom Pstate0 [Custom]
Pstate0 FID [98]
Pstate0 DID [8]
Pstate0 VID [20]
Custom Pstate1 [Auto]
Custom Pstate2 [Auto]
Custom Pstate3 [Auto]
Custom Pstate4 [Auto]
Custom Pstate5 [Auto]
Custom Pstate6 [Auto]
Custom Pstate7 [Auto]
Relaxed EDC throttling [Auto]
Downcore control [Auto]
SMTEN [Auto]
SEV-ES ASID Space Limit [1]
Streaming Stores Control [Auto]
ACPI _CST C1 Declaration [Auto]
L1 Stream HW Prefetcher [Enable]
L2 Stream HW Prefetcher [Enable]
SMU and PSP Production Mode [Auto]
DRAM scrub time [Auto]
Redirect scrubber control [Auto]
Disable DF sync flood propagation [Auto]
Freeze DF module queues on error [Auto]
GMI encryption control [Auto]
xGMI encryption control [Auto]
CC6 memory region encryption [Auto]
Location of private memory regions [Auto]
System probe filter [Auto]
Memory interleaving [Channel]
Memory interleaving size [256 Bytes]
Channel interleaving hash [Auto]
Memory Clear [Auto]
ACPI SLIT Distance Control [Auto]
Overclock [Auto]
Power Down Enable [Disabled]
Cmd2T [1T]
Gear Down Mode [Disabled]
CAD Bus Timing User Controls [Auto]
CAD Bus Drive Strength User Controls [Auto]
Data Bus Configuration User Controls [Auto]
Data Poisoning [Auto]
DRAM ECC Symbol Size [Auto]
DRAM ECC Enable [Auto]
TSME [Auto]
Data Scramble [Auto]
Chipselect Interleaving [Auto]
BankGroupSwap [Disabled]
BankGroupSwapAlt [Disabled]
Address Hash Bank [Auto]
Address Hash CS [Auto]
SPD Read Optimization [Enabled]
MBIST Enable [Enabled]
MBIST Test Mode [Interface Mode]
MBIST Aggressors [Auto]
MBIST Per Bit Slave Die Reporting [Auto]
IOMMU [Auto]
NBIO Internal Poison Consumption [Auto]
NBIO RAS Control [Auto]
Determinism Slider [Auto]
cTDP Control [Auto]
Fan Control [Auto]
PSI [Auto]
ACS Enable [Auto]
Enable AER Cap [Auto]
PCIe ARI Support [Auto]
CLDO_VDDP Control [Auto]
HD Audio Enable [Disabled]
Block PCIe Loopback [Disable]
Force PCIe gen speed [Gen3]
Processor temperature Control [Auto]
SOC OVERCLOCK VID [0]
Mode0 [Auto]
SATA Controller [Disabled]
Sata RAS Support [Disabled]
Sata Disabled AHCI Prefetch Function [Disabled]
Aggresive SATA Device Sleep Port 0 [Disabled]
Aggresive SATA Device Sleep Port 1 [Disabled]
XHCI controller enable [Enabled]
XHCI Controller1 enable (Die1) [Enabled]
XHCI2 enable (MCM1/Die0) [Enabled]
XHCI3 enable (MCM1/Die1) [Enabled]
tx_vboost_lvl [5h]
rx_eq [4h]
los_bias [5h]
pcs_tx_deemph_3p5db [1c]
pcs_tx_deemph_6db [1c]
pcs_tx_swing_full [7f]
tx_vboost_lvl [2h]
rx_eq [3h]
los_bias [5h]
pcs_tx_deemph_3p5db [1c]
pcs_tx_deemph_6db [1c]
pcs_tx_swing_full [7f]
tx_vboost_lvl [2h]
rx_eq [3h]
los_bias [5h]
pcs_tx_deemph_3p5db [1c]
pcs_tx_deemph_6db [1c]
pcs_tx_swing_full [7f]
tx_vboost_lvl [2h]
rx_eq [3h]
los_bias [5h]
pcs_tx_deemph_3p5db [1c]
pcs_tx_deemph_6db [1c]
pcs_tx_swing_full [7f]
SD Configuration Mode [Disabled]
Ac Loss Control [Always Off]
I2C 0 Enable [Auto]
I2C 1 Enable [Auto]
I2C 2 Enable [Auto]
I2C 3 Enable [Auto]
I2C 4 Enable [Auto]
I2C 5 Enable [Auto]
Uart 0 Enable [Auto]
Uart 1 Enable [Auto]
Uart 2 Enable (no HW FC) [Auto]
Uart 3 Enable (no HW FC) [Auto]
ESPI Enable [Auto]
AMD XGBE Controller 0 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 1 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 2 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 3 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 4 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 5 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 6 [Disabled]
AMD XGBE Controller 7 [Disabled]
eMMC/SD Configure [Disabled]
Driver Type [Auto]
D3 Cold Support [Disabled]
eMMC Boot [Disabled]


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Is MSI trash for mouse response or what? I built a new PC with MSI Z390 Gaming Edge AC and while the PC runs seemingly fine, everything feels wrong. My sens feels like 15% slower than it does on any other computer that I've ever played on and feels really swampy (I thought this term was a meme in the past, but ffs I get it now).

I'm also have extreme problems with my connection to games (not sure if MOBO related). There isn't any lag or stuttering, but very often when I get a kill people "snap" back a foot. I'm also being shot behind walls and insta killed with 0.01 MS reactions constantly. Does anyone have any intuitions on what could cause a smooth connection that nevertheless runs constantly behind? (ISP says no problems w/ signal, but dealing with them who ever really knows)

To add: No DPC problems to speak of at idle. Haven't tried to run the test while in game, and writing this now I'm making a mental note to run this test later.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Looks like netcode issues. Can you post your mouseseittings (old windows setting)

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Here is my Bios Setting @ Crosshair VI /Ryzen 1700x :
> 
> HPET should be off on AMD Ryzen CPU! its slower.
> Disabling SMT is not recommended. 2 Years past since release, it is a old information.
> You can chose the cores with process lasso if you like to and check the fps.



Are you using the latest bios ? please run this command with PowerShell Admin

Install-Module SpeculationControl

Get-SpeculationControlSettings


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...-of-get-speculationcontrolsettings-powershell

You might need to do the rest of the commands because of windows permission and others


----------



## Calypto

x7007 said:


> Ye I am not using it . it just for tests .
> 
> Can you please check your Timer Resolution with this tool
> 
> https://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool
> 
> 
> Mine was 1.99xx with my Eclaro Sound card enabled . minimum 0.9989 , I can't reach 0.5 ms
> 
> When I disable my Eclaro device from device manager it reached 15.625 straight . but still it should be 0.5 ms when gaming or there is multimedia , youtube, music,mp3,flac anything or even using Chrome or browser, it only reach minimum 0.9989.
> 
> Can you check how much is yours ?
> 
> I am using Windows 10 1809 17763.437


.5 HPET on .488 HPET off Windows 7


----------



## RamenRider

*I found it boys. After 4 years on this thread. Real breakthrough.*

Things that affect input lag:

Your monitor settings.

Your monitor cable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ax4838/attention_display_port_users_i_might_have_a/

Your OS settings/registry/ect. Process Lasso and Project Mercury might help especially for Ryzen CCX performance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleRite/comments/97vv24/serious_performance_boost_on_ryzen_with_project/

Your application settings: disable fullscreen optimization or aero for win7.

I also just found this amazing reg mod that boosted my frame delivery performance by 25-50%. If you have AMD gpu I definitely recommend downloading Radeon Mod. It is akin to Nvidia Profile Inspector.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/92uqph/radeonmod/

"Here's the (ocasionally) updated pastebin version of all the tweaks i found that do something on AMD GPUs. AMD GPU Performance REG for 19.1.1+

I got banned from google+ for posting links to this as .reg files, which is ridiculous btw. It's ok, G+ is dead anyway.

(UPDATED 14/03/2019 for bugfixes. Should work now.)

I tested this with a RX 580 V1 MSI OCed to 1425core 2250mem 50% power limit and with disabling the 300mhz memory P0 state in overdriveNTool, great performance. I also added some DVRanalytics keys to disable in case you enabled AMD User Experience improvement program. Driver latest 19.3.2 tested on Windows 10 1809 October Update, AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 16gb of RAM PC."

Theres also this other radeon reg file that you can try out as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...e_a/ei77ttx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Does anyone know of any other REGEDIT optimization that I can possibly do? Especially on the MMCSS?

https://www.reddit.com/r/killerinst...xcellent_guide_to_optimizing_your_windows_10/

Whenever someone is suggesting a change to \Games they always say: "In the same Registry hive as the above tweak, you can also change the priority of Games. To implement this tweak, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games and change the following registry values:

“GPU Priority” change its values to 8 for gaming.
“Priority” set to 6 for gaming."

However on the microsoft website it says: 

"Priority	REG_DWORD	The task priority. The range of values is 1 (low) to 8 (high).For tasks with a Scheduling Category of High, this value is always treated as 2."

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/procthread/multimedia-class-scheduler-service

>_>

Oh last but not least, MSI Utility. You can configure MSI line interupts manually but MSI utility just so much more convenient. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/

The utility was updated recently and now you can add priorities towards each device as well, however I just don't know which settings are the most beneficial yet. 

Also there still seems to be some performance increase by disabling HPET for ryzen systems(in BIOS). 




If you know any more performance tweaks please don't be shy. Especially registry tweaks.


----------



## x7007

I fixed my lag input , Another thing I discovered , it something with the bios settings and in windows . could be related to the Memory settings like PROCDT or CMD2T or Voltages .

I remember now .. one of the most important setting was the PCIE GPU Speed , PCIE GEN 1 2 3 or AUTO . It was always on AUTO or PCIE 3 . After I changed it to PCIE 2 I think this was fixed my issue.


I've found to fix the mouse lag for me are : 

My 1080GTX has UEFI boot bug , sometimes it doesn't display image even though everything booted so I need to use CSM support so it won't happen randomly 1 to 10 or something like that - Fixed , Issue is buggy firmware ./ Fix Enable CSM

My 1080GTX lag input or delay with mouse , also UEFI bug from 1st , also PCIE Bandwidth need to be PCIE 2 GEN


Also I need to check if it's something to do with CMD2T 1T vs 2T I still don't know if 1T is stable for me even if it boots . there are many other factors. like DPC issues and weird freezes in games or something like that


----------



## x7007

So most important . 

PCIE GEN 2 
CSM Enabled

Check for GPU firmware update if exist 

I just played Far Cry 5 Mars DLC and didn't have any freeze , mouse was perfect


----------



## BUFUMAN

Thx for the useful tips.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## x7007

The Biggest setting that fix my mouse lag 100% is the PCIE GEN 2 , no other setting did anything close to this effect . 





If you guys want to try , test this

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/d...ens-and-improve-monitor-compatibility.421417/

Read all what it says , check for bios update and such. Read All

This is the steps I did because I already had the officially newest bios and no other newer bios exist.

I did the update it's easy , 
1.just use GPUZ to export firmware, 
2. Download GOP update https://www.win-raid.com/file.php?u...rar&r=1&content=RE:_AMD_and_Nvidia_GOP_update
3.drag the ROM to the GOPupdate.bat and it will say if it needs update or not, update it . you will have updated file in Documents 
4.download Nvflash https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-nvflash/
5. Put Nvflash64.exe and the updated rom file
6.Disable the GPU from Device manager, restart . 
7.run CMD as Admin go to the directory where nvflash64 is . write nvflash64 -6 BIOSNAME.rom It should say Succefullly updated.
8. Restart computer


----------



## RamenRider

Ah poopy, it turns out my RX 580 has input lag.  https://community.amd.com/thread/235028

I reduced it as much as I could on my side, but maan. Would your nvidia tweaks work with my AMD gpu?

Here is a link from the thread as well. https://forums.geforce.com/default/...rivers/nvidia-driver-dpc-latency-input-lag/1/


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## x7007

RamenRider said:


> Ah poopy, it turns out my RX 580 has input lag.  https://community.amd.com/thread/235028
> 
> I reduced it as much as I could on my side, but maan. Would your nvidia tweaks work with my AMD gpu?


you mean me? 

yes try the pcie Gen setting asap put it on 2x, don't change its speed. just the gen. keep it 16x gen 2 instead 3 or auto. the Uefi firmware fix Uefi bug is something maybe with gpu firmware, not all cards will need a fix from motherboard.

I had the same lag input with 3770k Intel Asus Z77 motherboard. and the same Uefi bios mouse lag, this fixed it. when u fix the Uefi bug u fix the windows lag.go with this understanding


----------



## BUFUMAN

GEN2 settings did not change anything here.
Back to GEN3.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> GEN2 settings did not change anything here.
> Back to GEN3.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


did you try legacy boot for the gpu so it won't use Uefi? 
enable csm


----------



## RamenRider

I don't have Gen options. I believe they should be under my PCI subsystem settings(under advanced tab) but there is only one option there called SR-IOV support. These are my only options relating to GPU. Last photo is the CSM Legacy settings I'll try out, and will see if there's a firmware update. If not, it must be GPU.

EDIT:HOLY COW THIS IS GOOD STUFF. I can shoot targets at long range now with much less mouse input loss. It feels much more snappier and responsive. I feel that I am getting much closer, I'm like 65% there. Not just games but entire system as a whole, desktop, menus ECT.


----------



## x7007

I think I've found something..

Disable Full Screen LOGO show

I think this one causing issue because it goes into some sectors where it could screw the mouse and not regular booting . It's quiet mode which does extra things , instead normal booting, if Fast Booting is bad then Quiet Booting..




RamenRider said:


> I don't have Gen options. I believe they should be under my PCI subsystem settings(under advanced tab) but there is only one option there called SR-IOV support. These are my only options relating to GPU. Last photo is the CSM Legacy settings I'll try out, and will see if there's a firmware update. If not, it must be GPU.
> 
> EDIT:HOLY COW THIS IS GOOD STUFF. I can shoot targets at long range now with much less mouse input loss. It feels much more snappier and responsive. I feel that I am getting much closer, I'm like 65% there. Not just games but entire system as a whole, desktop, menus ECT.



So did it help ?

Can you do me a test please ?

Get the program https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/intelligent-standby-list-cleaner-v1000-released 
It's from the guy who makes DDU - Driver Uninstaller

You must follow this section because this the investigation 
tell me what is your Current Timer Resolution each time

Turn off your computer / turn it on and let it go to windows 
Run the program > write the number

Restart computer > let it go to windows 
Run the program > write the number

Restart computer > go in to bios > Just save settings > Let it go to windows
Run the program > Write the number



For me somehow the number changes, usually it should be 1.9992 ms or 1.9998 at idle not doing anything . but somehow if I restart and going bios or just restart it shows different numbers . now for example it stuck on maximum 0.4992 ms , which like the fastest but shouldn't be all the time. .. it should idle 1.9992/1.9998 or 15.625ms , but usually drivers like sound card won't let this happen so that's understandable in my case also . but this is too weird and I just notice it while restarting .


----------



## BUFUMAN

x7007 said:


> did you try legacy boot for the gpu so it won't use Uefi?
> 
> enable csm


Yeah all of them are used.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Yeah all of them are used.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


try to disable the full screen logo it helped me


----------



## x7007

Can anyone test their Timer Resolution every restart.

There is something weird with this thing ... it randomly stuck on 0.4988 sometimes no matter what you are doing . or it goes to 2.988 and 0.9880 and never 0.4988 . I mean it suppose to be like 15.625 ms when idle or no drivers/software request lower. and when Video/Sound then it should try the 0.4988 or 0.9880 when needed. 

but it never does that when directly after reboot I run the program and it stuck forever on 0.4988 ms no matter what I do .

I'm using Intelligent Staby list cleaner software . it shows the current timer there . I tried other softwares that shows the timer and they all show the same thing..

Anyone has that issue ?? I am 100% sure no one even checked that


----------



## Timecard

Each app on your system can change the timer, the system keeps whatever is lowest until the app releases it. Chrome for example will set ~0.5 upon launching it.


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## x7007

Timecard said:


> Each app on your system can change the timer, the system keeps whatever is lowest until the app releases it. Chrome for example will set ~0.5 upon launching it.


ofc but I have the same programs at startup all the time, with or without them open randomly I'll have 0.4xx all the time. even when Chrome open or not. randomly it will be normal after restart and go to 15.xxx.

do you understand d that it keep changing RANDOMLY after reboot? sometimes it doesn't, same apps, same programs, with or without them. the timer is the only thing changing just by logging in to windows.


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## x7007

This how it should look like properly .

Now for me it's Randomly , I just did restart and it was PERFECT , Mouse is perfect, everything perfect. but if I restart again everything will change randomly .... it's something in windows !! I can't understand what !














This how it from beginning and to the end no matter what I do


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## x7007

Now the most weird thing is every restart I have different LAG INPUT from mouse . When the Timer Resolution is working fine then mouse is fine, when it's stuck on 0.4491Ms it isn't good,,,, what change it !??

When turning the computer off and on usually the timer is working correctly , the issue start when restarting .. but it's very random.



EDIT: OMG , it was the INTEL WIFI driver that I disabled !!!!!! What the hell does the drivers wants from the system if it's disabled ?!?! Why does it affect the whole system ! ..... When it's not disabled it works fine ! .

But Why when it disabled it affects everything !! I think also mouse lag and Timer Resolution !

Also it's impossible to bloody stop the windows installation ! pisses me off , I can't stop it from installing , and if I block the ID , it keep complaining with windows notification on windows restart and on Random times


----------



## Hannes969

Heyy guys

I have also a problem with my mouse (g502). I only play cs go and the last days my mouse movement feels completet different. I disabled again High definition Auido driver, after this the mouse feels a little bit more accurate, but not as it was bevore. It feels like i have just a small amout of acceleration on slow movements, even on the desktop? 

Mybe it is gpu relatet because right now i cannot geht my 240 hz on the desktop. It switches automatic to 60 Hz, but in the game i have 240 HZ.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> Heyy guys
> 
> I have also a problem with my mouse (g502). I only play cs go and the last days my mouse movement feels completet different. I disabled again High definition Auido driver, after this the mouse feels a little bit more accurate, but not as it was bevore. It feels like i have just a small amout of acceleration on slow movements, even on the desktop?
> 
> Mybe it is gpu relatet because right now i cannot geht my 240 hz on the desktop. It switches automatic to 60 Hz, but in the game i have 240 HZ.



HPET won't do anything at the moment. INTEL and AMD doesn't seem to use it . 

Do you have any command you did in BCDEDIT ? delete them / Bcdedit /delete value XXX
Do you have ANY Disabled/Not installed Drivers ? Enable them and Install the Drivers DO NOT DISABLE ANYTHING 

Do you use UEFI Boot ? 
What GPU do you have ?

If you have NVIDIA GPU you might need to ENABLE CSM and choose UEFI Storage and Disable all others

Make sure you have NO CABLES TOUCHING EACH OTHERS , make sure they are as far as they can be


If all NULL for you , and didn't help , try change PCIE GEN to 2 
Make sure your SOC Voltage not on AUTO cause it can overvolt too much


----------



## Hannes969

i use uefi boot.
my gpu is the gtx 980 asus strix 


The strange thing is that the last few days it worked and suddenly it changed after reebot. 
I didnt have the logitech gaming software installed. 

I have this two commands: 

bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes


"Scheduling Category"="Medium"
"SFIO Priority"="Normal"

if i change the last two settings to high my mouse sensivity feels much faster and a littlebit accelerated 


and also use Timertool on 0.5 ms response.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> i use uefi boot.
> my gpu is the gtx 980 asus strix
> 
> 
> The strange thing is that the last few days it worked and suddenly it changed after reboot.
> I didn't have the logitech gaming software installed.
> 
> I have this two commands:
> 
> bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
> bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
> 
> 
> "Scheduling Category"="Medium"
> "SFIO Priority"="Normal"
> 
> if i change the last two settings to high my mouse sensitivity feels much faster and a little bit accelerated
> 
> 
> and also use Timertool on 0.5 ms response.


you don't need those commands , any of them .

I am still investigating Dynamic Tick , couldn't find anything for performance improvement .

Did you check all other things ? I didn't write them for nothing . TimerTool you really don't have to use, but at least before going into a game yes , but not all the times.

Try booting with CSM Enabled and Storage UEFI 
I have Logitech Gaming Software and I didn't see any change


----------



## Hannes969

hallo 



I have now installed the logitech gaming Software just for testing, but didnt changed anything.


I also have tried your steps but for me also on the desktop it feels like i have a bit of accerelation even on browsing oder just do any other things.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> hallo
> 
> 
> 
> I have now installed the logitech gaming Software just for testing, but didnt changed anything.
> 
> 
> I also have tried your steps but for me also on the desktop it feels like i have a bit of accerelation even on browsing oder just do any other things.


I know, I had it on windows too.. even in bios. 

what I am telling you are the things that fixed mine or at least will show us what is the problem. you might need power condition to get clean power. 
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/309/


----------



## Hannes969

i actually dont know but i think it is more of an acceleration than an input lag ? ^^


For me on the desktop it feels like the mouse sensivity got increased just a bit.


Do you recomend MSI-Mode in the registry ?


----------



## vf-

x7007 said:


> I know, I had it on windows too.. even in bios.
> 
> what I am telling you are the things that fixed mine or at least will show us what is the problem. you might need power condition to get clean power.
> https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/950944/pc-components/mouse-input-lag-is-killing-me/309/


Reading some of the pages near the end of that thread is scary. It's like self diagnosing yourself for an illness and getting it so wrong all because you've read... "I've got that, I've had that, I've experienced this, I've got it all" 

All from paranoia.


----------



## Hannes969

hmm 



I dont know what i actually should do., Tried nearly every step but it didint worked really well. 



I am thinking of just reinstall windows and do noy more tweaking just install cs go and put in the config.




But i am afraid it it changes again the sensivity.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> i actually dont know but i think it is more of an acceleration than an input lag ? ^^
> 
> 
> For me on the desktop it feels like the mouse sensivity got increased just a bit.
> 
> 
> Do you recomend MSI-Mode in the registry ?


msi mode won't do anything. to fix the issue u need to understand what is actually happening.
you need to make sure it's something reapeting, where it happen, and what happens.
if u don't try to fix this u will be stuck in a loop .


----------



## Hannes969

The only things so far i know is:

If i disable High definition audio (realttek and nvidia audio) because i have an asus xonar dgx soundcard my mouse sense felt slower(as i liked it) but right now if i disable it it doest goes slower?

Do you think the mouse could be the problem? 

Sometime whem i was ingame and i changed the resolution back and forth, my sense got resettet just a little bit as it was before, but right now it got stucked. 

Every time the bug happes, i think my sensivity got increased the same amount of speed. 
Before one year i played with 0.4 sensivity and 1600 dpi and now i am at 0.15

What i can see in the bios, is that i have xmp profile at the ddr4 ram enabled(The bug also happened before and there was not the xmp profile enabled). I have an corsair vengeance ddr4 3000 ram but they got recogniced as 2300 mhz ddr4 ram, so i put manually the 3000 mhz in the bios. One thing i saw was that the ram voltage should be 1.35V but it is 1.36? 

At first i felt a difference when i play with the logitech gaming software so i played now like for 3 months without the bug but it came back even withouth the software.Right now i feel no differenc if the software is started or not. 

My pc specs are: 
I7 6700k skylake
16 gb ddr4 3000 mhz 
Z170 pro gaming asus 
Gtx 980 strix 
Asus xonar dgx soundcard i play on the highes ohm stage 
Samsung go mic (usb) 
G910+g502 
Akg k712 pro 
Alienware 240 hz monitor (connected via hdmi) 

With the latest bios update a few months did, if i disable thr onboard sound (alazia hd audio) i cannot restart the pc with my soundcard installed. I can only shut down it.
So i only enabled the onboard sound.


What i have already tried: 

-Deinstall Logitech Gaming Software
-disabled Mouse acceleration on any system (CS:GO also rawinput 1) 

-disabled (hopefully) Windows Gamebar / Recording ... Any Windows Apps deinstalled, removed Onedrive 

-Switched USP Ports to Usp 2.0 

-disabled Windows Sync Settings 

-disabled any apps Services that a "gaming" pc dont really need
-reinstalled Nvidia Driver with ddu tool 

-disabled in Bios AsMedia 3.1 Ports, Onboard Soud, Lights. 

-reinstalled mouse driver (logitech, windows)


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> The only things so far i know is:
> 
> If i disable High definition audio (realttek and nvidia audio) because i have an asus xonar dgx soundcard my mouse sense felt slower(as i liked it) but right now if i disable it it doest goes slower?
> 
> Do you think the mouse could be the problem?
> 
> Sometime whem i was ingame and i changed the resolution back and forth, my sense got resettet just a little bit as it was before, but right now it got stucked.
> 
> Every time the bug happes, i think my sensivity got increased the same amount of speed.
> Before one year i played with 0.4 sensivity and 1600 dpi and now i am at 0.15
> 
> What i can see in the bios, is that i have xmp profile at the ddr4 ram enabled(The bug also happened before and there was not the xmp profile enabled). I have an corsair vengeance ddr4 3000 ram but they got recogniced as 2300 mhz ddr4 ram, so i put manually the 3000 mhz in the bios. One thing i saw was that the ram voltage should be 1.35V but it is 1.36?
> 
> At first i felt a difference when i play with the logitech gaming software so i played now like for 3 months without the bug but it came back even withouth the software.Right now i feel no differenc if the software is started or not.
> 
> My pc specs are:
> I7 6700k skylake
> 16 gb ddr4 3000 mhz
> Z170 pro gaming asus
> Gtx 980 strix
> Asus xonar dgx soundcard i play on the highes ohm stage
> Samsung go mic (usb)
> G910+g502
> Akg k712 pro
> Alienware 240 hz monitor (connected via hdmi)
> 
> With the latest bios update a few months did, if i disable thr onboard sound (alazia hd audio) i cannot restart the pc with my soundcard installed. I can only shut down it.
> So i only enabled the onboard sound.
> 
> 
> What i have already tried:
> 
> -Deinstall Logitech Gaming Software
> -disabled Mouse acceleration on any system (CS:GO also rawinput 1)
> 
> -disabled (hopefully) Windows Gamebar / Recording ... Any Windows Apps deinstalled, removed Onedrive
> 
> -Switched USP Ports to Usp 2.0
> 
> -disabled Windows Sync Settings
> 
> -disabled any apps Services that a "gaming" pc dont really need
> -reinstalled Nvidia Driver with ddu tool
> 
> -disabled in Bios AsMedia 3.1 Ports, Onboard Soud, Lights.
> 
> -reinstalled mouse driver (logitech, windows)


I don't think it's G502 issue , I tested G903 another G502 and all had the issue when it happen.
Second , Do not DISABLE anything ! again I repeat
Third Logitech Drivers Software doesn't do anything , lag will happen without or with .

Also to GameDVR , use that registry : it's only when playing games so it won't affect the mouse lag, just give you more fps 
https://winaero.com/blog/disable-fullscreen-optimizations-windows-10/

AGAIN THE MOST IMPORTANT THING :

SPLIT UR CABLES , don't let any cable touch each other ! ALL USB Cables : This has like 80% affect
Someone posted this and also I did it 
https://imgur.com/a/pFHsL7X 
https://imgur.com/a/vJtl3eu

Try using PCIE GEN 2 

Try using CSM Enabled and Storage UEFI all others Disabled


----------



## Hannes969

Do you think i should try to buy a pcie usb card to try other usb ports, because i heard that mybe there are some problems with the usb ports.


How can i check if enough voltage or something like that is on the usb ports ? 



Are there any tools to check the healthy of the ports


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> Do you think i should try to buy a pcie usb card to try other usb ports, because i heard that mybe there are some problems with the usb ports.
> 
> 
> How can i check if enough voltage or something like that is on the usb ports ?
> 
> 
> Are there any tools to check the healthy of the ports



If you don't really have issue with the devices , exp : they don't turned off randomly , they cause some shortage with motherboard , then no , you don't need any PCIE USB , if you have good LatencyMon / DPC/ISC then absolutely no , either way I don't think that's your issue.

you can't really check the USB Voltage , usually it's not the PSU causing this issue, many others tested, replaced , changed, I am with the same PSU for 8 years and it was fixed without replacing anything .


----------



## Hannes969

In have an 4 year old usb pcie 3.0 card, should i try it?

Another question, should be the dpc latency also ingame in cs go low, i. The idle it is normal but when i am ingame the newest nvidia driver causes dpc issues. 

Also should i remove with ddu the onboard video driverbecause i already did it month ago, and also the realtak sound driver because i have the asus xonar dgx.

When i want to i stall the intel vga driver (accelleratio) the it says my system dont supoort it.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> In have an 4 year old usb pcie 3.0 card, should i try it?
> 
> Another question, should be the dpc latency also ingame in cs go low, i. The idle it is normal but when i am ingame the newest nvidia driver causes dpc issues.
> 
> Also should i remove with ddu the onboard video driverbecause i already did it month ago, and also the realtak sound driver because i have the asus xonar dgx.
> 
> When i want to i stall the intel vga driver (accelleratio) the it says my system dont supoort it.


try the pcie usb but it could be worse
as logically it should.

dpc ingame is OK as long u don't have above 1000us and You don't hear any stuttering in the sound with a freeze. 
always remove driver with ddu. 
just disable the Realtek sound from bios if you don't need, disable all unecessary devices from bios, but never disable in windows.


----------



## Hannes969

Ok thank you i will try all this methodes.

But the strange thing is that, the "new" sensivity stays at the same level so for me it dont feels like it changes it is just right now a little bit faster bur doesnt change back to the slower level.

Mybe it is an issue with the scaling or something with the resolution?


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> Ok thank you i will try all this methodes.
> 
> But the strange thing is that, the "new" sensivity stays at the same level so for me it dont feels like it changes it is just right now a little bit faster bur doesnt change back to the slower level.
> 
> Mybe it is an issue with the scaling or something with the resolution?


disable windows scaling then. make sure it's 100%. 
and make sure to disable full screen optimization globally, search in Google so u won't have differences in games


----------



## Hannes969

I dont know why i cant put in new photos.


But i have the options in the Bios:
Secure Boot:The way of the bios: Other system or Windows UEFI Mode ? 


PEG Port Configuration:
PCIEX 16_1 : Auto/Gen1/Gen2/Gen3(Current) 



DMI/OPI Configuration:
DMI Max Link Speed: Auto /Gen1/Gen2/Gen3(current x4)




Boot\CSM:


CSM: Enabled
Boot Device: UEFI and Legacy OPROM(current)
Boot from network device: legacy only(current) 
boot from external harddrive: legacy only(current) 
PCI-E expansion cards: legacy only(current) 



Which Options Should i use ?




I Figured out, that if i change the sensivity control from the panel the acceleration ingame also changes i dont know why ? But it is just a littlebit


----------



## Hannes969

i think my issue has something to do with my scaleing/Resolution, because wenn i change my resolution to 1680x1050(the same resolution as in cs go) i can feel that the acceleration is better(less than before). But if i tap out once, the resolution goes back at the desktop to 1980x1080 even if i change the resolution in the nvida settings to 1680x1050. 

Also if i change the resolution in the nvidia settings nothing changes on the desktop ??


----------



## Timecard

x7007 said:


> I don't think it's G502 issue , I tested G903 another G502 and all had the issue when it happen.
> SPLIT UR CABLES , don't let any cable touch each other ! ALL USB Cables : This has like 80% affect
> Someone posted this and also I did it
> https://imgur.com/a/pFHsL7X
> https://imgur.com/a/vJtl3eu


Splitting cables and screenshots was me in from Nvidia forums, how my cables are separated and laying have a big difference in mouse sensitive/input delay (interference/desync). I finally have them in a certain configuration and as indicated my mouse issues are mostly resolved now and have been fine since. 

I assume there's some interference somewhere on/between the cables so when they touch or in certain proximity to each other my input gets dropped yet I still had solid high frame rate, made games feel like ****/inconsistent although no perceivable or measurable issues in anything else. I ordered a tool to measure emi/rf so hoping to provide more details/facts on that soon that can quantify my observations (with cabling) over the past month.

I also have other gaming mice and keyboards, all are impacted but my other theory was bad wires which may still be possible but less likely.

Note: No my devices aren't wireless.


----------



## Hannes969

Today i had a strange issue,

When i shot in cs go, my sound and also my bullets did go always double. And i also felt my sensivity did go up?


----------



## Hannes969

Hannes969 said:


> Today i had a strange issue,
> 
> When i shot in cs go, my sound and also my bullets did go always double. And i also felt my sensivity did go up?


I also noticed that if i deinstall my soundcard(asus xonar dgx) the increased sensivity ingame and also on the desktop goes a little bit down (more like i want to have that sensivity) it always feels to fast at short movements.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> I also noticed that if i deinstall my soundcard(asus xonar dgx) the increased sensivity ingame and also on the desktop goes a little bit down (more like i want to have that sensivity) it always feels to fast at short movements.


you will have all bunch of feel issue when there are interruptions. 

did you check everything I told you? 
for me the cabling was the thing that fixed the issue 100% ofc my guess it wasn't the whole 100% but it completed it full circle


----------



## whood

Hannes969 said:


> I also noticed that if i deinstall my soundcard(asus xonar dgx) the increased sensivity ingame and also on the desktop goes a little bit down (more like i want to have that sensivity) it always feels to fast at short movements.


Do you use Uni Xonar driver? It's night and day difference in latency compared to official drivers.


----------



## Hannes969

whood said:


> Do you use Uni Xonar driver? It's night and day difference in latency compared to official drivers.


yes i use the uni driver also on low latency mode


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> I dont know why i cant put in new photos.
> 
> 
> But i have the options in the Bios:
> Secure Boot:The way of the bios: Other system or Windows UEFI Mode ?
> 
> PEG Port Configuration:
> PCIEX 16_1 : Auto/Gen1/Gen2/Gen3(Current)
> 
> DMI/OPI Configuration:
> DMI Max Link Speed: Auto /Gen1/Gen2/Gen3(current x4)
> 
> Boot\CSM:
> CSM: Enabled
> Boot Device: UEFI and Legacy OPROM(current)
> Boot from network device: legacy only(current)
> boot from external harddrive: legacy only(current)
> PCI-E expansion cards: legacy only(current)
> Which Options Should i use ?
> I Figured out, that if i change the sensitivity control from the panel the acceleration ingame also changes i don't know why ? But it is just a little bit


Secure Boot / Other System
PEG Port Configuration:
PCIEX 16_1 : GEN 2
DMI/OPI Configuration:
DMI Max Link Speed: Keep Auto

Boot\CSM:
CSM: Enabled
Boot Device: UEFI and Legacy OPROM(current)
Boot from network device: legacy only(current) 
boot from external harddrive: legacy only(current) 
PCI-E expansion cards: legacy only(current) 

That's good if you have option to Disable instead Legacy only , that's also ok 


Don't focus on the things you are focusing, you won't fix the issue like this, it's not software else you really messed things up

After you change those things try to untangle your cables so nothing is touching each other


----------



## Hannes969

Hello 



ok thank you for all your help!  



I also ordered lindy chroma display port cables 1.4 Version and it feels better, also on the desktop.
I feels also better ingame, maybe it also depends on the cs go command for the sound also. 

I also enabled ingame snd_mix_async "1", also the sound, is hearing more consitent without any poping, maybe it also helps. 



Do you think an degauss ring, helps if i put in on the other cabels exept the mouse and the keyboard?
My keyboard cabel is cloes to an logitech z5500 power cabel, and stereo cabels and also to the displayport cabel. 



Or does it also help if i put a cable shielding around my keyboard cabel? 

I dont know if it is bad for the response on the mouse if i put it over  


a other question, does a sencond monitor make issues with mouse performance ? 




PS: Today i played cs go and the acceleration was more than yesterday, how can it be so different from just an restart ? #
My problem is how can i measure it xD ?


After this i restartet my pc booted into the bios and deaktivated my onboard soundchip.And the acceleration ingame feels as it was yesterday, but i didnt hat the onboard chip deinstalled yesterday but every time i change something on the sound it also effetcs the aiming in cs go 




sry for my bad english


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> 
> ok thank you for all your help!
> 
> 
> 
> I also ordered lindy chroma display port cables 1.4 Version and it feels better, also on the desktop.
> I feels also better ingame, maybe it also depends on the cs go command for the sound also.
> 
> I also enabled in game snd_mix_async "1", also the sound, is hearing more consistent without any popping, maybe it also helps.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think an degauss ring, helps if i put in on the other cables except the mouse and the keyboard?
> My keyboard cable is close to an logitech z 5500 power cable, and stereo cables and also to the displayport cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Or does it also help if i put a cable shielding around my keyboard cabel?
> 
> I dont know if it is bad for the response on the mouse if i put it over
> 
> 
> a other question, does a sencond monitor make issues with mouse performance ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Today i played cs go and the acceleration was more than yesterday, how can it be so different from just an restart ? #
> My problem is how can i measure it xD ?
> 
> 
> After this i restarted my pc booted into the bios and deactivated my onboard sound chip.And the acceleration ingame feels as it was yesterday, but i didn't hat the onboard chip deinstalled yesterday but every time i change something on the sound it also affects the aiming in cs go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sry for my bad english


Again , you follow a ghost road.

If you really want to test your sound card as it known to have Latency you need to really check the Latency with software . I don't remember which software show actual latency but try to find one. for me I have 1 MS Latency with Creative SXFI AMP USB as it doesn't have crappy Asmedia or any other chip, it has built in COM Direct with USB , no USB chipset . 

The ring could help depends on the scenario , if you have noise there those ring could uplift and make the noise stronger, you need to know what you have to power up.

I had to move all my cables today and TV and somehow after I sat on the computer the LAg input came back . I didn't actually change anything expect AMD Chipset driver, which later I uninstalled cleanly and reinstall, because if you uninstall and have internet , windows install it's Chipset driver from windows update and then you install the AMD , not very good. so as I thought it's this I made clean and it still happen. I didn't actually move any cable but while I was moving maybe those cabled which I didn't want to move , moved . after MOVING only the mouse cable a bit separating it from stuff , it felt good again . There was once that after a restart that mouse was 100% superme legit accurate , but I didn't actually did anything and after restart it was back to 50% . it must be a mix of things, but CABLING is the most 50% you can get in instant if you just move all the cables , every cable makes noise because they have no real protection . maybe they give protection only from afar , but when those cables are close , they'll make the noise triple, because I can SEE it actually not relative to your movement , it randomly changing that means the noise randomly start and end with different noise strength which must be something to do with any signal that coming out of any cable at a very same moment . My guts tells me even UNCONNECTED cables can screw this up . WE NEED BLOODY DEVICES to check those things. 

Does anyone know if a cable can output noise even without plugged in ?


Because the thing is , even when my mouse was always connected and I connected another mouse on different usb far from any other cable , it would still be not good . So it must be some signal of noise coming all the time and you need to FIX this damn thing . The annoying thing is when you fix it and you have no idea how and then it comes back somehow when you just moved things !! that's the bloody mess .

Rebooting the computer must have Signaling resetting, when you restart it shut down the device, making the cable null and start it over . so randomly sometimes the signal will be weaker , because your mouse cable moves or like wireless it keep changing . Noise / Lag Input / Computer is everything but numbers .


Let's try to split it .

*PC Machine parts ( usually not the fix ) > Bios settings > Troubled issue Devices Sound Card , Hard Disk or any device > HDMI Cable > Monitor/TV Spec + Settings > Software > Drivers > CABLING Management* 

I think we might need to put those rings on all the cables . this is the only way to make for sure , because it will happen in instant or after just windows restart.


----------



## Hannes969

How do you check your dpc latency ?


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> How do you check your dpc latency ?


dpc latency using Latencymon, download it. 
but dpc is the least of your issues. dpc causing sound stuttering and slow downs with fps drop. you don't have that. I don't have any dpc issue and I still had the lag input


----------



## x7007

100%
Make SURE your Mouse Cable Doesn't touch anything !!! , for all you care put it far away from any other cable. 

I realize to know every time I have the lag input , I move the cable as much as far as I can and it fix the lag input in instant


----------



## Hannes969

if you put lets say the keyboard cabel close to any other cabel, does it also effekt your mouse sensivity? or only when you toch the mouse cabel


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> if you put lets say the keyboard cabel close to any other cabel, does it also effekt your mouse sensivity? or only when you toch the mouse cabel


any cable, but we can't know for sure we don't have device to check any noise inside the USB is noise


----------



## Hannes969

another thing is, but i think it is cs go related that if i put in the console, fps_max 600 my aim/sensivity feels snapier but also a little bit faster, if i put fps max 300, my aim feels slower and also the sensivity.
but i have always 260-400 fps but most of the time around 300+ fps. 



It is the same feeling, as if i put in high priority in the regedit under games tasks.


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> another thing is, but i think it is cs go related that if i put in the console, fps_max 600 my aim/sensivity feels snapier but also a little bit faster, if i put fps max 300, my aim feels slower and also the sensivity.
> but i have always 260-400 fps but most of the time around 300+ fps.
> 
> 
> 
> It is the same feeling, as if i put in high priority in the regedit under games tasks.


if it happens in desktop it's not gaming related, it happens when u browsing or using minesweeper . to fix it u need to fix it in bios and then continue on .


----------



## x7007

Get the Mouse cable away from any freaking other device , connected or not connected !

including Fans, unplugged External Hard Disk , USB Fans , Case , Headphones !

Freaking crazy how much noise they output . it's like they transfer Echo and get noise .

I played Heroes of the Storm and somehow in Real Time I saw the mouse jumped just once and I felt it became worse . I tried to move stuff and as soon I got the mouse cable away from EVERYTHING even the Unplugged USB Fan it was 99% precision again.


there is no denial , mouse cable need some protection from EMI , we need to find the FIX that works protecting it for 100% precision no matter what !

IDEAS ???


----------



## x7007

I will order this and update you

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...63-420d-a45c-f3de48536629&transAbTest=ae803_5


----------



## RamenRider

x7007 said:


> Sec still testing, it might not the LLC CPU.
> 
> So many factors need to check.
> 
> So check with Windows Performance Recorder without Pool usage , having 60 ms, meaning it might not checking some drivers . Having Pool Usage checked havin 150ms . double the number, means another driver is checked .
> 
> Can you guys tell me if you have this registry key on 0 or 1 . 0 should be Default . I had it on 1 and after I change it I feel the mouse is more accurate . because this key should do something with the Pool, even though my MS time stayed the same.
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
> "DisablePagingExecutive"=dword:00000000


My default is 0. Gonna try 1. Also how do you disable windows logo? Use the reg from Unknownm's optimization folder?



Unknownm said:


> I'm talking about VB-Audio Cable or Voicemeeter


Hey Unknownm. I tried downloading your optimization folder again but there seems to be a virus, defender wouldn't let me download.


----------



## Unknownm

RamenRider said:


> My default is 0. Gonna try 1. Also how do you disable windows logo? Use the reg from Unknownm's optimization folder?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Unknownm. I tried downloading your optimization folder again but there seems to be a virus, defender wouldn't let me download.


it could be the downloaded tweakers from different websites, but my antivirus avast hasn't shown anything. maybe I will upload the bat and exe , reg etc only

Working great on my new ryzen system!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## x7007

RamenRider said:


> My default is 0. Gonna try 1. Also how do you disable windows logo? Use the reg from Unknownm's optimization folder?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Unknownm. I tried downloading your optimization folder again but there seems to be a virus, defender wouldn't let me download.


that's from bios. but no need. I discovered to be it's not effecting. nore llc, not sure about the disable paging reg but it did change something tiny when it 0 for the better


Again I repeat my self for the 100 time . Make sure your mouse cable doesn't touch any other cable, and not on the side of the case, Underneath the case is seems fine. Everytime I move something I feel and see the mouse goes crazy as before. Every time I order the cable the same way it worked fine before, it works fine again. We just need EMI Defend or whatever signaling out to the cable.


----------



## RamenRider

Unknownm said:


> it could be the downloaded tweakers from different websites, but my antivirus avast hasn't shown anything. maybe I will upload the bat and exe , reg etc only
> 
> Working great on my new ryzen system!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


I believe it's just classictheme.exe.



x7007 said:


> that's from bios. but no need. I discovered to be it's not effecting. nore llc, not sure about the disable paging reg but it did change something tiny when it 0 for the better
> 
> Again I repeat my self for the 100 time . Make sure your mouse cable doesn't touch any other cable, and not on the side of the case, Underneath the case is seems fine. Everytime I move something I feel and see the mouse goes crazy as before. Every time I order the cable the same way it worked fine before, it works fine again. We just need EMI Defend or whatever signaling out to the cable.


I actually might need paging reg, cause I really do use up all my ram. 

Perhaps we can do some tests with mouse movement recorder. See how big of a difference crosstalk affects mouse wires and other wires. Perhaps it's time for isolated ports and new standards for extreme enthusiasts like ps/2 but for even faster hardware. Coaxial cable was developed in order to replace twisted pair cables because of it's high EMI shielding. Perhaps we should take over the world.


----------



## x7007

I bought from ebay eventually and I asked the seller if it's going to help with EMI on mouse cable and such , he said yes...

Let's hope this is the answer once and for all.


----------



## Hannes969

Heyy 



i restarted my pc and today my sensivity got a little bit increased, i dont know what i should do i looked at my cabel but all was the same.´i dont know maybe it is network realated ?


Today later i will try this fix: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffe...ally_fixed_my_csgo_game_freezes_fps_drops_it/


----------



## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> Heyy
> 
> 
> 
> i restarted my pc and today my sensitivity got a little bit increased, i don't know what i should do i looked at my cable but all was the same.´i don't know maybe it is network related ?
> 
> 
> Today later i will try this fix: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffe...ally_fixed_my_csgo_game_freezes_fps_drops_it/




You are so busy on sensitivity when you restart ,, that's not the fix . Please only let me know if you did something that I told you or something that you physically change . Try to move your mouse cable away from anything . Underneath / Above the Case , not touching anything else. Take a photo show us how it is for you


Impossible to test LatencyMon now with Windows 10 1903 ... It takes 12% CPU usage , something heavy is behind , and it makes the computer crawl ....


----------



## Timecard

In regards to the ferrite and rf clamps, placement is often best near the receiver (computer), I noticed none of my gaming keyboard have one. When there is bidirectional communication rf clamp at both ends is advised for reducing emf/rf signals. It is also stated that small ferrite are used to block higher frequency interfering signals where as bigger ones actually help block low end frequency.

I did end up buying a tool to measure Magnetic and Electric field radiation, mostly confirmed that AC power lines have significant radiation in close proximity, computer fans also present the same behavior, more notably the faster the fan is spinning the higher the rating. This is expected behavior for such cables and devices.

I have yet to conclude the root cause of my issue but cable position is the only thing as per my original findings alleviates the issues. I have tried increasing the distance from electric and magetic fields but no change was observed yet, but I have more tests to run. All my peripherals (multiple mice, keyboards) are impacted the same way, otherwise I thought it could be damaged wires.


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> In regards to the ferrite and rf clamps, placement is often best near the receiver (computer), I noticed none of my gaming keyboard have one. When there is bidirectional communication rf clamp at both ends is advised for reducing emf/rf signals. It is also stated that small ferrite are used to block higher frequency interfering signals where as bigger ones actually help block low end frequency.
> 
> I did end up buying a tool to measure Magnetic and Electric field radiation, mostly confirmed that AC power lines have significant radiation in close proximity, computer fans also present the same behavior, more notably the faster the fan is spinning the higher the rating. This is expected behavior for such cables and devices.
> 
> I have yet to conclude the root cause of my issue but cable position is the only thing as per my original findings alleviates the issues. I have tried increasing the distance from electric and magetic fields but no change was observed yet, but I have more tests to run. All my peripherals (multiple mice, keyboards) are impacted the same way, otherwise I thought it could be damaged wires.



good knowlage, this one for the books cause I don't think anyone thought about that
the question why the companies don't give you this with the cable or at least in a box incase this could happen. they should know it already

so you did not buy those ferrite to test? should give us the answer in this composition


----------



## vf-

x7007 said:


> good knowlage, this one for the books cause I don't think anyone thought about that
> the question why the companies don't give you this with the cable or at least in a box incase this could happen. they should know it already
> 
> so you did not buy those ferrite to test? should give us the answer in this composition


They aren't always used because... forgotten the name that requires to pass the tests. fecc? cannot remember but I do remember reading about it in the past.

Besides, unless you've got the equipment to test. It's tail on the donkey game.

https://passive-components.eu/how-to-use-a-ferrite-bead-in-your-design-to-reduce-emi/


----------



## Timecard

Correct, I don't have extra ferrite to test, I may buy some to help rule it out. It is the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) that states the electrical standards for consumer products.


----------



## BUFUMAN

I will buy some. I managed to get low latency with the correct driver installed. Best way to do this 

New installation > without inet connection > start latency monitor> check drivers panel> read ISR count this goes crazy with usbxhci at the beginning> solution> installed amd usb driver windows 7 from latest chipset driver (inf install).>it wil not work directly you will have 2 unknowen devices in your device manager for the HUB controller you need to install them to. To Control your mouse use antother working USB Port on your Mainboard.

Restart check latency >no ISR counts anymore > say thank you AMD and MS for that Bs!

Install GPU driver>restart, check latency monitor> check driver panel> this time dxkernel with ISR Count> solution> install latest dxpack (not web installer)> i do install dxweb also, just to be sure.> Restart>check latency monitor>driver panel> no ISR count>Say thank you to Nvida and MS for this bs.

That's the way to make sure the OS don't die under heavy ISR Counts.

Next installation of my creative AE 5 Soundcard>Restart >check latency Monitor>driver panel> huge ISR Count> use MSI tool for IRQ set to MSI mode for the Soundcard. Restart and hopefully your Soundcard works at the MSI state. Mine did after the second try.
Check Latency Monitor>driver panel> Booom 0 ISR!

Say thank you to yourself.

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----------



## Hannes969

i have an asus xonar dgx Soundcard with unixonar driver, do you know how i can get this sound card into the msi mode.?


----------



## BUFUMAN

Hannes969 said:


> i have an asus xonar dgx Soundcard with unixonar driver, do you know how i can get this sound card into the msi mode.?


just try it, it will not harm your system, you will have sound or not u can undo it with the tool again. Creative driver dont like MSI mode but the latest beta driver worked out.

You will find the tool here:
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> just try it, it will not harm your system, you will have sound or not u can undo it with the tool again. Creative driver dont like MSI mode but the latest beta driver worked out.
> 
> You will find the tool here:
> https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/



Using Sound Card as MSI or MSI-X unsupported is bad.. The ISR usually is not the bad one, the DPC is the bad . for me I don't have any ISR issue with the USB3 microsoft drivers.

Since upgrading to 1903 I can't reach DPC of 10-20 anymore, also the Intel Network card is causing high DPC jumps which wasn't before with 1809 .. I made backup but I have no idea what I did that fix all those issues.

I think something with the Latencymon is not correct ,, it takes heavy usage on my CPU for no reason 

And while I heard music I didn't have any stuttering or freeze, the Latenmyon is just not correct , even with this big jump

We'll need to give it time for the windows to release fixes ,, it took time for the 1809 to work properly .


----------



## BUFUMAN

It's clearly better here with msi mode and no cracks or sound issues. remember i have a creative soundcard do you use Onboard?

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## BUFUMAN

x7007 said:


> Using Sound Card as MSI or MSI-X unsupported is bad.. The ISR usually is not the bad one, the DPC is the bad . for me I don't have any ISR issue with the USB3 microsoft drivers.
> 
> Since upgrading to 1903 I can't reach DPC of 10-20 anymore, also the Intel Network card is causing high DPC jumps which wasn't before with 1809 .. I made backup but I have no idea what I did that fix all those issues.
> 
> I think something with the Latencymon is not correct ,, it takes heavy usage on my CPU for no reason
> 
> And while I heard music I didn't have any stuttering or freeze, the Latenmyon is just not correct , even with this big jump
> 
> We'll need to give it time for the windows to release fixes ,, it took time for the 1809 to work properly .




its better to have 0 ISR and Normal -High DPC as High ISR and High DPC
can your provide a screenshot of your drivers panel @Latency Monitor pls


----------



## Hannes969

So i just have to download the tool and tick on all devices the msi button


----------



## BUFUMAN

yes and restart. but only if you have more than "0" ISR check latency monitor first.


----------



## BUFUMAN

PS: at SATA could be a problem! read that article pls. just change 1 device in 1 step only.


----------



## BUFUMAN

btw i also used 2 Tools as a background task for my CPU. mercury project is for systems with more than 4 Cores+4HT/SMT. 

1. mercury project > https://www.ghacks.net/2016/11/21/project-mercury-improve-responsiveness-in-heavy-load-situations/

2. Intelligent standby list cleaner v1.0.1.1 > https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/intelligent-standby-list-cleaner-v1000-released

use my settings check my screenshots, your settings will be saved. i found a way to use them as background task at "Scheduling Tasks or Task Scheduler " you need to grand "system" access to it. After that the icons will not apear but the tools are working in the background.

As you can see at my screenshots this is the best i can get with full media load. Music and youtube clip playing and surfing.


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> It's clearly better here with msi mode and no cracks or sound issues. remember i have a creative soundcard do you use Onboard?
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



I have SXFI AMP USB and eClaro HT OMEGA . they both don't cause any issue. the eClaro is not connected now . also the SXFI has no issue at all . it's the top studio USB AMP/DAC you can get .


----------



## BUFUMAN

Ok.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> I will buy some. I managed to get low latency with the correct driver installed. Best way to do this
> 
> New installation > without inet connection > start latency monitor> check drivers panel> read ISR count this goes crazy with usbxhci at the beginning> solution> installed amd usb driver windows 7 from latest chipset driver (inf install).>it wil not work directly you will have 2 unknowen devices in your device manager for the HUB controller you need to install them to. To Control your mouse use antother working USB Port on your Mainboard.
> 
> Restart check latency >no ISR counts anymore > say thank you AMD and MS for that Bs!
> 
> Install GPU driver>restart, check latency monitor> check driver panel> this time dxkernel with ISR Count> solution> install latest dxpack (not web installer)> i do install dxweb also, just to be sure.> Restart>check latency monitor>driver panel> no ISR count>Say thank you to Nvida and MS for this bs.
> 
> That's the way to make sure the OS don't die under heavy ISR Counts.
> 
> Next installation of my creative AE 5 Soundcard>Restart >check latency Monitor>driver panel> huge ISR Count> use MSI tool for IRQ set to MSI mode for the Soundcard. Restart and hopefully your Soundcard works at the MSI state. Mine did after the second try.
> Check Latency Monitor>driver panel> Booom 0 ISR![emoji41]
> 
> Say thank you to yourself.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


You sure those the steps you didn't get ISR counts on dxkerenl ?
And what about Wdm0100?


It seems installing the Directx improve the reaction speed overall , but it still doesn't fix the ISR .. I think what fixed your ISR might be the USB drivers only . But I don't know what are the risks of installing Windows 7 drivers , because you might skip many of the OS optimization and who knows what else.

It seems for me it was something with the power saving .

Processor power Management - was 60% , changing to 100% make it more steady and the Global C6 State which need to check


----------



## BUFUMAN

Mate i wrote down the steps. like i mentioned I checked latency monitor many times before i installed the driver.

There is no issue with installing it. 

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----------



## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Mate i wrote down the steps. like i mentioned I checked latency monitor many times before i installed the driver.
> 
> There is no issue with installing it.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



for my X399 I don't have USB drivers on the chipset drivers. So I don't know which one you took from . you didn't post any links


----------



## x7007

It seems everyone has this issue, it's something with 1903 , I had perfect Latencymon with 1809





https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...test-1903-windows-release-2.html#post14009492
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/bu34xv/update_1903_high_dpc_latency_issues/


----------



## Hannes969

hello 



do you also changed the interrupt priority ?


----------



## BUFUMAN

No did not. I will post the folder later for usb driver. But it should be under drivers>SB>USB 3.0 &USB 3.1

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## BUFUMAN

here are the used driver https://my.hidrive.com/share/ra7vz8qtli

https://www.amd.com/de/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x370 (Windows 10 - 64-Bit Edition)

19.10.0429\AMD-Chipset-Drivers\Packages\Drivers\SBDrv\USB30_ZP
19.10.0429\AMD-Chipset-Drivers\Packages\Drivers\SBDrv\USB31_PT

You need to install them first USB30_ZP & USB31_PT and restart, after the reboot you will recognize 2 unknown devices try to install them the same way (.inf)

if you can not install the 2 unknown devices with this folder use my files from hidrive, i used snappy driver installer for those 2 thats why i have the files.


----------



## BUFUMAN

i just installed my nvme 970 evo driver now, system is fresh since 3 days. thats the results. O ISR, i like my highest executions (ms)


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## Hannes969

thew only isr counts that i have now after switching to msi is 
*Wdf01000.sys ?? i have noticed that my isr counts and also the dpc counts only goes up when i move my mouse. 
*


----------



## BUFUMAN

Yeah because you use that "port" now input / output. Same here but without ISR counts.

Can you provide a screenshot of your Drivers [email protected] monitor?

Looks like Logitech driver for keyboard mouse. 

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## Hannes969

Hmm i dont think it is the logitech driver because i tried to deactivate it on the hardware manager, but the same issue happaned.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Intel System? You should find out wich driver is causing this.

I can't find any system information at your signature [emoji6]

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## Hannes969

Hello

I just reinstalled windows 10 because i had a strange bug, i think it was related to the mouse because, after i tried to enabled the 3.1 usb in the bios, my pc startet windows 10 and the Desktop runs for 10 sec them my mouse freezed and my pc quited. I tried many thinks but i had to reinstall windows 10. 

After the reinstall, all was good, so i just downloaded latencymoon and checked if the problem is again here. And yes the same **** is happening. 
Then i downloaded firefox, but right now when i only start firefox my pc chrashes? An all other things it works fine


----------



## BUFUMAN

Disable fastboot. Typical fastboot error

Also at power settings Windows

If the pc is fresh installed it should not crash.

You did something wrong mate. What is installed atm on it? System information?

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## x7007

I installed the AMD USB 3.0 and 3.1 but still getting ISR on the Wdf01000 .sys. I also have amdxhc31.sys file now

I still wonder how you got 0 ISR.

Though now, it doesn't care about my mouse movement speed, Wdf01000.sys just go up solo, before it was going up double jumps, like 200-400 in numbers when I moved the mouse, now it just goes in single digit no matter what I do with the mouse.









For some reason it wasn't want to install the drivers for Razer Wolverine Ultimate Controller .... ** I wouldn't recommend doing the USB install ... it messed things too much. I guess you don't have any controllers or any USB Audio devices, but they just stop working after this install...

I reverted back to Microsoft drivers and everything is working now.


----------



## BUFUMAN

I don't know why mate. You should sort your list to show all ISR on top of your list is not sorted.

Possible that a another "System".sys is producing also ISR.

You also have many onboard ports enabled like asmedia 3.1 i disabled it. Then check ISR

Use MSI mode for your Nvidia card. Then check ISR

Uninstall and Disable Nvidia HD if you don't use HDMI. Then check ISR

Step by step.

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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> I don't know why mate. You should sort your list to show all ISR on top of your list is not sorted.
> 
> Possible that a another "System".sys is producing also ISR.
> 
> You also have many onboard ports enabled like asmedia 3.1 i disabled it. Then check ISR
> 
> Use MSI mode for your Nvidia card. Then check ISR
> 
> Uninstall and Disable Nvidia HD if you don't use HDMI. Then check ISR
> 
> Step by step.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


so you disabled your asmedia ports.
put Nvidia msi 
I don't think the HD I audio does anything if it's disabled in the device manager anyway. I actually installed it instead disabling it to test. 

Again did you try to test any USB devices after you installed the amd devices? because it's clearly does
not working properly as it doesn't detect many devices including USB controller, and with Microsoft USB drives it does.


----------



## BUFUMAN

x7007 said:


> so you disabled your asmedia ports.
> 
> put Nvidia msi
> 
> I don't think the HD I audio does anything if it's disabled in the device manager anyway. I actually installed it instead disabling it to test.
> 
> 
> 
> Again did you try to test any USB devices after you installed the amd devices? because it's clearly does
> 
> not working properly as it doesn't detect many devices including USB controller, and with Microsoft USB drives it does.


Yes thats all just try it.

I use only logitech G502 [email protected] 1000hz, corsair RGB 75 Rapid keyboard @125hz, and xbox one dongle for pad.

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## BUFUMAN

Hmm>> https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4y4202/for_those_of_you_having_frame_freezing_or_driver/

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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Yes thats all just try it.
> 
> I use only logitech G502 [email protected] 1000hz, corsair RGB 75 Rapid keyboard @125hz, and xbox one dongle for pad.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk




Did you check if your controller is working ?



BUFUMAN said:


> Hmm>> https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4y4202/for_those_of_you_having_frame_freezing_or_driver/
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



That's not the problem I have at least, he has stability issues which I had. crashed because I needed to replace Thermal Paste on my GPU after 3-4 years . after I did that I didn't have a single issue with TDR.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Yeah my controller is working.

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## x7007

BUFUMAN said:


> Yeah my controller is working.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk



So I think it's something with a USB auto detection driver. some drivers can't be installed or downloaded from the windows update, at least the Razer Controller I have.


This is great info about the detection of troubleshooting drivers 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pr...s/it-pro/windows-8.1-and-8/jj679884(v=win.10)


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## BUFUMAN

x7007 said:


> So I think it's something with a USB auto detection driver. some drivers can't be installed or downloaded from the windows update, at least the Razer Controller I have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is great info about the detection of troubleshooting drivers
> 
> 
> 
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pr...s/it-pro/windows-8.1-and-8/jj679884(v=win.10)


Yeah possible. I installed the Logitech mouse driver also but stoped autostart.

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## Timecard

As for the actual cause of the issues for input delays for the remaining people in this entire thread assuming you've ruled out most things it is likely related to a ground loop which raises the noise floor (the base amount of electrical noise) in the PC itself, when the noise floor is particularly high then almost any form of change to power (increase/decrease), configuration or interference both near field and far field make the issue worst. (moving cables around, changing fan/cpu/memory settings etc)

Want a TLDR? See my github page on this topic:
https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCSetup/blob/master/TROUBLESHOOTING/ELECTRICALINTERFERENCE.MD


Our journey and more info:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ihak2mMEogNm3IkoJxizY1YN7vXjuNr_NfEdAnjTAII/


Credit to Nug, Ashr and anyone else (Melody, Haze) who contributed to the fun science projects, research and inspiration.
Ashr - https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197979240181/
Nug - https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198042287644/
Timecard aka TC! - http://steamcommunity.com/id/tcard


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## x7007

Timecard said:


> As for the actual cause of the issues for input delays for the remaining people in this entire thread assuming you've ruled out most things it is likely related to a ground loop which raises the noise floor (the base amount of electrical noise) in the PC itself, when the noise floor is particularly high then almost any form of change to power (increase/decrease), configuration or interference both near field and far field make the issue worst. (moving cables around, changing fan/cpu/memory settings etc)
> 
> Want a TLDR? See my github page on this topic:
> https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCSetup/blob/master/TROUBLESHOOTING/ELECTRICALINTERFERENCE.MD
> 
> 
> Our journey and more info:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ihak2mMEogNm3IkoJxizY1YN7vXjuNr_NfEdAnjTAII/
> 
> 
> Credit to Nug, Ashr and anyone else (Melody, Haze) who contributed to the fun science projects, research and inspiration.
> Ashr - https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197979240181/
> Nug - https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198042287644/
> Timecard aka TC! - http://steamcommunity.com/id/tcard



So I have EMI ferrite on HDMI , Coaxial Cable, PC Power Plug, Mouse Cable

It seems that the mouse is 90% better now, moves like my laptop 100 Hz , and I have LG OLED E6 55" here.


----------



## Timecard

Ferrite can help but if you have a grounding/ground loop noise issue it almost always creeps back even after adding ferrite, heck removing and re-adding the ferrite can make it feel better. My github has more info and recommendation based on my friends and I research to help reduce the noise level so things like moving cables away form each other have less effect on your game.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Thanks mate!

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## RamenRider

Stupid stupid windows. I've had this damn problem for 2 long years. This solved 90% of my input lag. I assume it has something to do with their spying. I was even using Win 10 LTSC 2019 1809. Then again I felt the same lag on my dual boot win7. Dam microsoft, NSA, obamaware. Can confirm the input lag is on English Canada as well. So far the best I tried is English Philippines.


----------



## x7007

I realized something from something Microsoft worker said.

xHCI (Extensible Host Controller Interface) Specification for Universal Serial Bus 3.0
Motherboards with USB 3.0 might have a xHCI configuration. It controls how the USB 3.0 ports behave. You can enable it, so USB 3.0 ports always act as USB 3.0
XHCI Mode is Disabled - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 2.0 port
XHCI Mode is Enabled - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 3.0 port

For reference: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...hand-off/edff12b1-b38c-4e16-8149-8441032b6771 

If your Motherboard has an xHCI setting in BIOS and you want the USB Ports to function as USB 3.0 in Windows 10, set your xHCI hand off to enabled.


You may need a driver from the manufacturer. This is turning over control of the port from BIOS to OS.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ndows-10/45bc98b4-4f78-4ba5-a6d6-4d20056ae65c



If you xHCI Hand-off Enabled then means it would Force the USB port to use 3.0/3.1 all the time no matter what device plugged.

So if I understand correctly. If xHCI hand off Disabled with Windows 10 and if I have the Drivers installed then it would automatically know which USB is plugged and give the correct Tech/Speed for it, meaning USB 2.0 will behave exactly like USB 2.0 without any buffering or USB 3.0/3.1 Tech. 

So when we do that we will have the correct speed for mouse/keyboard eliminating any lag input USB 3.0/3.1 Tech deliveries to our USB 2.0 devices.

Now the only big issue we might have is that Microsoft has it's own USB Drivers for Intel/AMD, so I don't know what will happen when we xHCI Hand off Disabled and use Microsoft built-in drivers instead installing the AMD USB drivers, but they don't installed easy and you need to force them, so I can't see how it would be correct.


----------



## x7007

RamenRider said:


> Stupid stupid windows. I've had this damn problem for 2 long years. This solved 90% of my input lag. I assume it has something to do with their spying. I was even using Win 10 LTSC 2019 1809. Then again I felt the same lag on my dual boot win7. Dam microsoft, NSA, obamaware. Can confirm the input lag is on English Canada as well. So far the best I tried is English Philippines.



I didn't understand the test here.

I have English United States keyboard US and Hebrew.

I have the Language Icon near the clock. What should I need to change because I notice I have some weird lags in Heroes Of The Storm, can't be sure but I think it's there.


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## x7007

some info about USB

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/usbcon/usb-3-0-driver-stack-architecture


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## x7007

I've found the lag input fix, follow the guide I made

https://forums.geforce.com/default/...input-lag-is-killing-me/post/6127353/#6127353


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## Timecard

Neat x7007, I have never seen this setting before, it's rarely mentioned except maybe a few random posts on the internet and some usb development forums. What's I find interesting about this, it's pretty much another hidden power setting. Windows is a complex beast ^_^

Here's Microsoft's official reference to it and how to change it:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2900614/some-usb-devices-do-not-recharge-in-windows-8-1

Also see this post, someone reporting Windows 10 systems in January 2019 with many usb 3.0 devices will see negative impact or bug with the setting enabled, it was quickly locked by MS moderators.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ices-are/fbca16ea-8536-43c3-a958-293321dd2dc0

I did try it but i'm not sure what impact it has as my build is super consistent and stable but it's possible this setting may help in certain situations, and impact certain mice,keyboards etc.


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## BUFUMAN

As far as i know my mini lag for 1 sec, is related to DisplayPort or the commutation between windows 10 and a (144hz) display.

The lag is shorter with HDMI....

Fu beta Products.


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## x7007

k this time I really found what causing my lag input. it was stupid cable fans. I have 2 that normally I always keep moving because I connect stuff and sometimes they are on the way because those mofo fans always keep dusted and makes noise and I want an easy way to pull them out clean and back instead of opening all case.

So I had lag input 2 days without reason, I just moved the 2 cable fans that are on the way and the lag instantly disappeared. I can assure you this is the last of it. I use cable fan splitter that you connect and you have 3-4 fan 3 pins and 1x 4 pins plug. This time it's not bloody bios or bios settings, it is just fan cables, those bloody things don't have any SHIELDING. really pisses me off, those things need to have triple shielding. Anyone know where can I get Fan Splitters with Shielding? It's the most necessary thing, even more than better PSU omg... because even if you are the best cable management pro you can't possibly make all the cables not touching anything, and it is very annoying to do if you replace stuff or something else broken and you need to start disconnect stuff.... it is just a nightmare. I just want to connect no matter what and just get on with it.

That way people with 1 fan or 2 fans which goes really fine not touching anything doesn't have the lag input, those people usually have better cable management but they usually never upgrade things, they just buy new computers or replacing just GPU, nothing else. but people like me who replace soundcards, fans, AIO water cooling because of those things usually break. and people who have more than 5-6 fans not including the AIO water cooling fans which are 3 more. it is terribly hard to really manage all those things or even not possible them to touch something that causes this.

For me it's 100% FANS cable, it might be 1 or 2 other things that I already change but this thing is instantaneous and it keeps coming because I move those cables usually and nothing else software/hardware/bios and it keep coming back.


we need something like this

http://www.performance-pcs.com/dark...-y-splitter-cable-jet-black-sleeved.html#Tags


----------



## Timecard

Shielding is only effective if it that energy has somewhere to go, shield connects to fan ground pin etc. 

Fans themselves generate a notable amount of electromagnetic interference the faster they spin, so maybe it is part of the cause which is relaying to the wires making them act like mini antennas to other near by components which are sensitive. 

Try reducing the mount of fans in your build or the speed at which they spin, I have all my fans spinning at a "constant" lower speed while providing adequate cooling while under load. If that is part of your issue then perhaps stabilizing the cause (fan speed) could stabilize the interference to a constant rate/load. I assume in theory should reduce the rate at which interference builds up or help stabilize the effects.

Check out the chapters in this link, it covers everything EMF/EMI related with nice diagrams and terms even if you're not super technical, how to reduce/prevent, shielding, how emf/emi can be transferred, how wires can be come antennas etc
https://www.murata.com/en-us/products/emc/emifil/knowhow/basic/chapter01-p1#02


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Shielding is only effective if it that energy has somewhere to go, shield connects to fan ground pin etc.
> 
> Fans themselves generate a notable amount of electromagnetic interference the faster they spin, so maybe it is part of the cause which is relaying to the wires making them act like mini antennas to other near by components which are sensitive.
> 
> Try reducing the mount of fans in your build or the speed at which they spin, I have all my fans spinning at a "constant" lower speed while providing adequate cooling while under load. If that is part of your issue then perhaps stabilizing the cause (fan speed) could stabilize the interference to a constant rate/load. I assume in theory should reduce the rate at which interference builds up or help stabilize the effects.
> 
> Check out the chapters in this link, it covers everything EMF/EMI related with nice diagrams and terms even if you're not super technical, how to reduce/prevent, shielding, how emf/emi can be transferred, how wires can be come antennas etc
> https://www.murata.com/en-us/products/emc/emifil/knowhow/basic/chapter01-p1#02


I'll try steady fan speed first


----------



## OCPG

Hey, would you guys recommend installing Intel's Client NVMe Driver for an Intel 905p SSD? Or would that just add latency over the default Windows 10 NVMe Driver?


----------



## BUFUMAN

OCPG said:


> Hey, would you guys recommend installing Intel's Client NVMe Driver for an Intel 905p SSD? Or would that just add latency over the default Windows 10 NVMe Driver?


I don't know. But i use Samsung NVMe driver. U should check reviews about it mate.

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## RamenRider

BUFUMAN said:


> As far as i know my mini lag for 1 sec, is related to DisplayPort or the commutation between windows 10 and a (144hz) display.
> 
> The lag is shorter with HDMI....
> 
> Fu beta Products.


Yup this is what I observed too. DP gave me slightly more input lag than HDMI. If only we can gather all the notable optimizations in this thread into another thread(like they do with Qresearch). Perhaps we should have a discord.



Timecard said:


> Shielding is only effective if it that energy has somewhere to go, shield connects to fan ground pin etc.
> 
> Fans themselves generate a notable amount of electromagnetic interference the faster they spin, so maybe it is part of the cause which is relaying to the wires making them act like mini antennas to other near by components which are sensitive.
> 
> Try reducing the mount of fans in your build or the speed at which they spin, I have all my fans spinning at a "constant" lower speed while providing adequate cooling while under load. If that is part of your issue then perhaps stabilizing the cause (fan speed) could stabilize the interference to a constant rate/load. I assume in theory should reduce the rate at which interference builds up or help stabilize the effects.
> 
> Check out the chapters in this link, it covers everything EMF/EMI related with nice diagrams and terms even if you're not super technical, how to reduce/prevent, shielding, how emf/emi can be transferred, how wires can be come antennas etc
> https://www.murata.com/en-us/products/emc/emifil/knowhow/basic/chapter01-p1#02


So what you are saying is water cooling and less fans is the best way to go?


----------



## Timecard

That is my assumption yup, get fans away from mobo.


----------



## Hannes969

Hello Guys: 



I am back, after two moths of not playing, i reinstalled windows 10 completely. CS go worked fine for some days and then the problem came back -_-.
So i should not be any software, windows 10 or cs go thing hopefully. 



But i dont know could it be the mouse because i have the problem when it feels "normal" in cs go it stays like this, but just after restart the sensivity feels like on ice or something


----------



## BUFUMAN

Timecard said:


> That is my assumption yup, get fans away from mobo.


Could be different from MB to MB. This is a nogo for me. You can test this on your MB.
Go full speed on your fans, if this is working for you it is related to the FAN curve (power). U can also try to switch from pwm to dc.

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## BUFUMAN

Hannes969 said:


> Hello Guys:
> 
> 
> 
> I am back, after two moths of not playing, i reinstalled windows 10 completely. CS go worked fine for some days and then the problem came back -_-.
> So i should not be any software, windows 10 or cs go thing hopefully.
> 
> 
> 
> But i dont know could it be the mouse because i have the problem when it feels "normal" in cs go it stays like this, but just after restart the sensivity feels like on ice or something


I have no issues with win 10 and my mouse feeling.

Do you use: 
-profiles for your mouse?
-mousepointer acceleration
-high dpi @ cs don't work for me. I am old school. was using a mx518 back in the day with 1800dpi (or was it 1600? ) this was the best resolution for me. I am a midsens gamer in case of CS.



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## Hannes969

Hmm

The problem is i control my fans over the qfan control in the bios, how can i test it? I dont wanna use asus ai suit, i had some problems with it ????


----------



## BUFUMAN

Hannes969 said:


> Hmm
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is i control my fans over the qfan control in the bios, how can i test it? I dont wanna use asus ai suit, i had some problems with it ????


Go into uefi, hit F7, go into FAN Settings use full speed. Reboot

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## Hannes969

OK thank you i will try it today. 



Was the problem also by you middle in the game, because sometimes i feel that the mouse is a littlebit floaty, or sometimes it feels when i move the mouse really fast, like as it wos on ice and always depending on how fast i move it. Littlebit as there would be an acceleration on it. But i disabled all.


i just tried it and for me it didnt changed anything if the fans are on or off. 



Could it be cs go related ? configs ?


----------



## BUFUMAN

Hmm is your FPS is stable? Sounds like FPS up and downs.

Mouse only feel like this with FPS up and downs. Is this happening i when you move thru smoke?

Which mouse?

Usb Hz?

Mouse Driver installed?

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## Hannes969

I have the logitech g502 with 1000hz and no logitech gaming software installed. 
I also discovered an issue, when i moved my mouse, the isr counts on the driver wdf01000.sys driver goes fast up. When i didnt move the mouse or wrote on the keyboard no isr counts where happening. So i tried other usb ports nothing happened. The only solution for the mouse was that i use the 3.1 usb port, butni have only one of them. But the counts when i type on the keyboard are way smaler then when i move my mouse. 

But sadly my mouse feels now littlebit more stable but still accelerated ????


----------



## BUFUMAN

I have the same mouse. My soultion was to install usb driver instead of MS Driver for my USB Controller and USB Hub Controller. Used win 7 driver for this. Search this thread i wrote it down.It will work for amd borads!

I have 0 ISR counts now

I also installed the Logitech driver for testing bit disabled it from autostart.
Calibrate your mouse to your mouse surface with the software!


Plug you mouse into USB 2.0, don't use a usb hub.

I am at vacation right now.
Can't show you my settings for CS but i use RAW input there with 1800dpi and 2.0 sense.

Btw you didn't answer all my questions 

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## Hannes969

hello 



I just figured that when i switch my mouse hz back to 125 hz and then to 1000 hz my sensivity feels/ is actually lower. But when i restart the pc or just plug in out the mouse and back to the pc the sensivity stays at this high level 



Do you know is it more a mouse problem or a pc problem with high hz ? i tried usb 2.0 usb 3.0/3.1


----------



## 3g6453g463g54

Measure that **** and get your dpc and sensitivity paranoia out your ass.


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## Hannes969

I already measured it, and it is different mate


----------



## 3g6453g463g54

Did you post your measurements?


----------



## BUFUMAN

3g6453g463g54 said:


> Measure that **** and get your dpc and sensitivity paranoia out your ass.


 

if the sens is lower with 1000hz your mouse has some issues to switch it. Easy. Just unplug - plug in it and never switch to 125hz back. If you do you now how to resolve your situation.

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## x7007

Hannes969 said:


> OK thank you i will try it today.
> 
> 
> 
> Was the problem also by you middle in the game, because sometimes i feel that the mouse is a littlebit floaty, or sometimes it feels when i move the mouse really fast, like as it wos on ice and always depending on how fast i move it. Littlebit as there would be an acceleration on it. But i disabled all.
> 
> 
> i just tried it and for me it didnt changed anything if the fans are on or off.
> 
> 
> 
> Could it be cs go related ? configs ?


dude u have the same issue. I am investigating this.
what psu do you have? also is it new or old? also check your pm private message


----------



## BUFUMAN

I have absolutely no issue with my Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum  on any usb port.

Calibrate your mouse to the surface or try another mouse pad. That's your issue, if you disabled mouse acceleration, setup up your desired mouse speed @ windows mouse settings and choosed your desired dpi

I use this one https://de.steelseries.com/gaming-mousepads/qck-series

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## vf-

That is one heck of a tiny pad.


----------



## BUFUMAN

vf- said:


> That is one heck of a tiny pad.


Have the big one https://cutt.ly/QwGyQb7

For you

https://cutt.ly/gwGyWf0

Just check product site 

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## fatehasfans

I have the exact same problem. Floaty mouse, a little bit of input lag -- almost unnoticeable mainly because I run very powerful computer but its there. When I'm in any game when I pan camera slowly I can see the stutter. Same in windows when I drag mouse very slowly across I can see the micro-stutter, something feels bottlenecked, even in bios mouse is 'floaty' 

Tried pretty much everything.

- Completely new hardware throughout
- Driver overhaul
- Delete mouse drivers and all mouse files + resinstall
- Windows 10 tweaks + Xbox removal + Cortana removal
- Installed old windows 7
- Tried installed raw mouse program
- Many bios tweaks (hpet etc)

Nothing has helped, really at a loss. Been this way now for best part of 2 years.

Any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## x7007

fatehasfans said:


> I have the exact same problem. Floaty mouse, a little bit of input lag -- almost unnoticeable mainly because I run very powerful computer but its there. When I'm in any game when I pan camera slowly I can see the stutter. Same in windows when I drag mouse very slowly across I can see the micro-stutter, something feels bottlenecked, even in bios mouse is 'floaty'
> 
> Tried pretty much everything.
> 
> - Completely new hardware throughout
> - Driver overhaul
> - Delete mouse drivers and all mouse files + resinstall
> - Windows 10 tweaks + Xbox removal + Cortana removal
> - Installed old windows 7
> - Tried installed raw mouse program
> - Many bios tweaks (hpet etc)
> 
> Nothing has helped, really at a loss. Been this way now for best part of 2 years.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated



what is your psu? and how far the power cable goes inside the psu slot?


----------



## fatehasfans

x7007 said:


> what is your psu? and how far the power cable goes inside the psu slot?


Its corsair 1200x, everything is tidy inside. 

I've also tried to disconnect all fans and try one by one. Tried disconnecting front panel wires. Even a replacement PSU. It's still there :'(


----------



## x7007

fatehasfans said:


> Its corsair 1200x, everything is tidy inside.
> 
> I've also tried to disconnect all fans and try one by one. Tried disconnecting front panel wires. Even a replacement PSU. It's still their:'(


Which one of the RM or HX ? for some reason I replaced my 8-9 years old ThermalTake ToughPower 850Watt because of known ripples and issue with their standards, and almost 90% of my mouse weird issues have been cleared. I replaced it with Corsair HX850x and using the 12 multi-rail setting. now the make things weirder, I connected the same PSU to my old computer I3700k Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe which I also had lag since replacing the 970 or even then I think I had lag, it's very hard to remember. I have now 1080 GTX. but even though there is no lag at all with the computer. so I don't know if the PSU changed something but it sure feels like it. my next step is to replace the GPU when AMD new cards arrive, if that won't clear the issue then it would be only Reinstall of windows as my guess which would clear everything up then. because I transferred my windows since windows 7 from INTEL to AMD and upgraded to Windows 10 and as a bonus, I transferred it from HDD to SSD, think of all the things 

Now I remember I did some firmware updates to the GPU, I am beginning to think a Firmware update to the GPU could cause that. because I remember I had no issue at all with 8800GTX. I even have this card still, also I have 4870x2. I think I'll be able to test this.

For the old comp with the old PSU, I just used a fresh install on HDD of windows 1903 and updated it with just default Microsoft drivers, nothing else installed, Microsoft Optical 1.1A mouse connected to Benq 224W something model with IPS. I also tried a Logitech G9 laser mouse. but the only big different expect all whistle and tech is the GPU. I am using the Intel cpu GPU. 

So there are not many reasons. the worst-case scenario is everyone needs UPS for the good or worse. some people need Online though when they have a long list of issues with their home power or country.

Can you please try to Video the lag input with your mouse? focus on the monitor/TV when you move the mouse, make sure you start to move it slow and when you go back move it fast. do slow/back slow / fast/ slow back like try a mix of many ways. if there is a lag we will see it. it's especially visible when u move slowly because of it possible to see the mouse moving with some delay

And always remember, it's not just the mouse, it usually also the keyboard and even Controllers. so the main focus is to split the cause and fix the root cause. because it's not exactly "a mouse issue" it's just more visible to the holder and user because a mouse is the biggest use in comp.


----------



## vf-

BUFUMAN said:


> Have the big one https://cutt.ly/QwGyQb7
> 
> For you
> 
> https://cutt.ly/gwGyWf0
> 
> Just check product site
> 
> Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


Big pads has spoiled me. Once you go 1200 - 1800cm everything else is tiny.


----------



## BUFUMAN

vf- said:


> Big pads has spoiled me. Once you go 1200 - 1800cm everything else is tiny.


Hehe, you just need a mousepad - desk.



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----------



## RamenRider

*I found it boys. After 4 years on this thread. Real Breakthrough v2.*

Things that affect input lag:

Your monitor settings.

Your monitor cable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ax4838/attention_display_port_users_i_might_have_a/

Your OS settings/registry/ect. Process Lasso and Project Mercury might help especially for Ryzen CCX performance.

For Process Lasso on Ryzen you set your game to the primary cores(Disable SMT). And on other apps I set them on secondary cores(odds). So it would look like Game 0,2,4,6,8,10 and other apps like chrome would be 1,3,5,7,9,11. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleRite/comments/97vv24/serious_performance_boost_on_ryzen_with_project/

Your application settings: disable fullscreen optimization or aero for win7.

https://www.reddit.com/r/killerinst...xcellent_guide_to_optimizing_your_windows_10/

"Whenever someone is suggesting a change to \Games they always say: "In the same Registry hive as the above tweak, you can also change the priority of Games. To implement this tweak, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games and change the following registry values: 

“GPU Priority” change its values to 8 for gaming.
“Priority” set to 6 for gaming."

Oh last but not least, MSI Utility. You can configure MSI line interupts manually but MSI utility just so much more convenient. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/

The utility was updated recently and now you can add priorities towards each device as well, however I just don't know which settings are the most beneficial yet. 

Some random tweak that I needed:


RamenRider said:


> Stupid stupid windows. I've had this damn problem for 2 long years. This solved 90% of my input lag. I assume it has something to do with their spying. I was even using Win 10 LTSC 2019 1809. Then again I felt the same lag on my dual boot win7. Dam microsoft, NSA, obamaware. Can confirm the input lag is on English Canada as well. So far the best I tried is English Philippines.


Disable CSM or set CSM to mostly legacy: 


RamenRider said:


> Last photo is the CSM Legacy settings I'll try out.
> 
> EDIT:HOLY COW THIS IS GOOD STUFF. I can shoot targets at long range now with much less mouse input loss. It feels much more snappier and responsive. I feel that I am getting much closer, I'm like 65% there. Not just games but entire system as a whole, desktop, menus ECT.


HDMI has less input lag than DP: 



RamenRider said:


> Yup this is what I observed too. DP gave me slightly more input lag than HDMI. If only we can gather all the notable optimizations in this thread into another thread(like they do with Qresearch). Perhaps we should have a discord.
> 
> So what you are saying is water cooling and less fans is the best way to go?


But the best input lag reductions you can do 100% is: TEST OUT DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF WINDOWS. All of my input lag problems came from Windows. I used windows 7, windows LTSB 2016, windows 10 LTSC 2019 all of them had the same lag. No matter how much I reinstalled it doesn't change the amount of input lag on my Ryzen. Using the new 1903 reduced my input lag significantly, the difference is night and day. Almost as good as or even better than my FX. It even eliminated that English language input lag problem I had and beyond. So to reiterate, EVEN IF YOU HAVE INPUT LAG AND REINSTALL YOU ARE STILL INSTALLING THAT SAME WINDOWS VERSION THAT MIGHT HAS THE SAME INPUT LAG. That 20% scheduling performance increase from windows 1903 claim really is true.


----------



## vf-

Hmm... @RamenRider I see two cables of that. The one listed is Accell B142C-007B-2. £15.49 1 meter.

Then there is another that is also £15.49 1 meter. Accell B142C-010B.


Hmm... They're both listed as Accell B142C-003B-2. 1 June 2018 released and the other in 1 April 2013. US import only on Amazon UK.

Ah the different model codes is for different lengths. Import fees will be the issue.


----------



## rivage

vf- said:


> Hmm... @RamenRider I see two cables of that. The one listed is Accell B142C-007B-2. £15.49 1 meter.
> 
> Then there is another that is also £15.49 1 meter. Accell B142C-010B.
> 
> 
> Hmm... They're both listed as Accell B142C-003B-2. 1 June 2018 released and the other in 1 April 2013. US import only on Amazon UK.
> 
> Ah the different model codes is for different lengths. Import fees will be the issue.


Monitor cables is something i definitely haven't thought of for input lag, could you help me out figuring which one works best for me ?

Setup : benq XL2411T with amd RX 480 - i've never used hdmi and i'm using an old dvi-d cable

thank you in advance!


----------



## 3g6453g463g54

Check out FR33THY's optimization guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nrcQ2EU5512TpuspPF4u5PgZ43p7hoV1cYBMi2C3XSQ/edit?usp=sharing
If you still have issues after following it, the issue is in your head or your hardware is faulty.


----------



## x7007

3g6453g463g54 said:


> Check out FR33THY's optimization guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nrcQ2EU5512TpuspPF4u5PgZ43p7hoV1cYBMi2C3XSQ/edit?usp=sharing
> If you still have issues after following it, the issue is in your head or your hardware is faulty.



Nice thanks for sharing! I wouldn't find this anywhere!!

I will post it on more forums


----------



## BUFUMAN

Thanks.

I am now at latest win 10 1903 its butter smoth here with my setup.

With a few tweaks i mentioned before in this thread.

QPC ist at 10mhz. Works.

Hmm interesting tweaks about fan. I will disable water pump.

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## x7007

Does anyone know how can I download the file with the Outlines order?


Also does anyone know what is Chipset Sata Port Enable Enabled/Disabled? 

Because I don't understand why I can still boot and all my SSDs/HDD are still detected. what does it do? is it for Nmve or raid because I don't have.


----------



## Biks

Hi guys, i´ve been a follower of this thread way back and actually tryed it and got amazing results.

Recently i bought new computer and found huge input lag in my mouse. Its horrible, the cursor movement very heavy and unprecise.

My specs:

Inter Core I3-8100
Mobo: Asus Prime H310M K R2
Build 1151 
Corsair 8ram

Any idea of whats is causing so much input lag? Read somewhere in this thread that its the 1151 build, is it?


----------



## panosxidis

So guys LEGACY MODE OR UEFI?


----------



## BUFUMAN

It doesn't matter. I tried both modes.


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## BUFUMAN

Biks said:


> Hi guys, i´ve been a follower of this thread way back and actually tryed it and got amazing results.
> 
> 
> 
> Recently i bought new computer and found huge input lag in my mouse. Its horrible, the cursor movement very heavy and unprecise.
> 
> 
> 
> My specs:
> 
> 
> 
> Inter Core I3-8100
> 
> Mobo: Asus Prime H310M K R2
> 
> Build 1151
> 
> Corsair 8ram
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea of whats is causing so much input lag? Read somewhere in this thread that its the 1151 build, is it?


If you talking about the mouse in games i would say your low fps.

If you talking about windows. Buy a new mouse

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----------



## Nastya

panosxidis said:


> So guys LEGACY MODE OR UEFI?


What do you think will be better? Choose that, confirmation bias will sort out the rest for you.
There's no logical reason for any of those to affect cursor movement.


----------



## Biks

I feel it regardless being ingame or in windows. Not a mouse related problem as Ive tryed with others and the problems persists. I also havent got a low fps issue, at all...


----------



## x7007

What fixed my Mouse issues are as follows from top to low. this will depend on your spec I think Intel and AMD, some things won't effect like mine.

Disable Spectre protection using InSpectre.exe

Command Prompt
bcdedit /set DisabledynamicTick Yes
bcdedit /set useplatformTick Yes

Put GPU on MSI mode using MSI_util_v2.exe

Change Drivers files Core Affinity offloading from Core0... Only GPU/USB using interrupt_affinity_policy_tool.msi

DO NOT Install Windows Sandbox


Obviously things to do

Power Mangement High Performance or Ultra


Bios

CPU Phase Power Mode Should be High Performance or Extreme
DRAM also Extreme
Legacy USB Doesn't seem to have big effect / Still checking
Secure Boot does not have any effect, also it doesn't really enabled, if you do not enable the GPEDIT.msc
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/68913-enable-disable-device-guard-windows-10-a.html
HPET Enabled in Bios


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> What fixed my Mouse issues are as follows from top to low. this will depend on your spec I think Intel and AMD, some things won't effect like mine.
> 
> Disable Spectre protection using InSpectre.exe
> 
> Command Prompt
> bcdedit /set DisabledynamicTick Yes
> bcdedit /set useplatformTick Yes
> 
> Put GPU on MSI mode using MSI_util_v2.exe
> 
> Change Drivers files Core Affinity offloading from Core0... Only GPU/USB using interrupt_affinity_policy_tool.msi
> 
> DO NOT Install Windows Sandbox
> 
> 
> Obviously things to do
> 
> Power Mangement High Performance or Ultra
> 
> 
> Bios
> 
> CPU Phase Power Mode Should be High Performance or Extreme
> DRAM also Extreme
> Legacy USB Doesn't seem to have big effect / Still checking
> Secure Boot does not have any effect, also it doesn't really enabled, if you do not enable the GPEDIT.msc
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/68913-enable-disable-device-guard-windows-10-a.html
> HPET Enabled in Bios


If you have Ryzen try also find in BIOS "CPU Current Capability" and set it to "Typical". Then it will stop powering off the cores when Idle.

(edit: You meant "useplatformclock" not "tick" i guess.)

Also I have been playing with HPET/ useplatformclock=enabled during the weekend. System latencies went UP from 20 to 60 microseconds when idle. The problem is that CCX complexes are communicating with each other and it adds some latency, but all CCX complexes are either on same die, or at least in CPU package (as in Threadrippers).

The problem here is that HPET should be physically located in Southbridge, so:
a) Its a most precise timer you can setup in Windows 10 atm.
b) It appears to give least buggy behavior in multiple applications.
(Eg certain effects in games are drawn as they were designed, and presented in demos).
c) There is a significant performance penaly on Ryzens when using it, especially in multithreaded scenarios.

Results for me with my Threadripper 1900X were:
Nier Automata: More smooth animations, however some stutter added when loading objects/zones.
Witcher 3: Blur effects looks more spectacular.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance : FPS Drop in Pribyslawitz when loading objects is worse by 10 fps.

Latency Mon: Lowest measuring for "Process to Interrupt Latency" increased to 60 microseconds, but time measuring got much more precise (six digits beyond comma).
Prime95 + power consumption measurings: Test shows in general lower power drain (Both HWInfo and wattmeter) and lower temperatures. That indicates that the stress test is less capable to utilize the CPUs.


----------



## x7007

Offler said:


> If you have Ryzen try also find in BIOS "CPU Current Capability" and set it to "Typical". Then it will stop powering off the cores when Idle.
> 
> Also I have been playing with HPET/ useplatformclock=enabled during the weekend. System latencies went UP from 20 to 60 microseconds when idle. The problem is that CCX complexes are communicating with each other and it adds some latency, but all CCX complexes are either on same die, or at least in CPU package (as in Threadrippers).
> 
> The problem here is that HPET should be physically located in Southbridge, so:
> a) Its a most precise timer you can setup in Windows 10 atm.
> b) It appears to give least buggy behavior in multiple applications.
> (Eg certain effects in games are drawn as they were designed, and presented in demos).
> c) There is a significant performance penaly on Ryzens when using it, especially in multithreaded scenarios.
> 
> Results for me with my Threadripper 1900X were:
> Nier Automata: More smooth animations, however some stutter added when loading objects/zones.
> Witcher 3: Blur effects looks more spectacular.
> Kingdom Come: Deliverance : FPS Drop in Pribyslawitz when loading objects is worse by 10 fps.
> 
> Latency Mon: Lowest measuring for "Process to Interrupt Latency" increased to 60 microseconds, but time measuring got much more precise (six digits beyond comma).
> Prime95 + power consumption measurings: Test shows in general lower power drain (Both HWInfo and wattmeter) and lower temperatures. That indicates that the stress test is less capable to utilize the CPUs.


I have the CPU Current capability by numbers 250. which one should I put?


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> I have the CPU Current capability by numbers 250. which one should I put?


I think i confused two different settings. The setting is called in my BIOS like this "power supply control". Options are "auto", "typical current idle" and "Low Idle".

"Typical current idle" changed behavior of my CPU cores so they dont go below 1 watt in power consupmtion (eg. they dont go to sleep state).

This along with "disabledynamictick" should decrease response times at cost of slightly higher power usage in idle modes. When there is only desktop, overall power consumption of the system went from 60w to 90w, but it barely makes any difference since i usually have a browser opened.

And as mentioned earlier i think you confused "useplatformclock" with "useplatformtick". The latter isnt a functional parameter, the first is HPET, but I dont recommend it for Ryzens (or when there is really no other option|.


----------



## Ripan

Hi i wanna use this guide and still oc my 3770k to 4.7 ,no c-states. Now i use LLC on ultra high and 500 fixed freqency, 1.27 manual volt.

But when i put LLC to regular i cant get to work even at manual volt of 1.35. I havent used vcore and offset before and dont know my way around it. But from what i have read maybe vcore could get it stable? Im so noob 🙂


----------



## Hannes969

Hello 



One Question, for my Asus z170 Pro Gaming in cs go my mouse feeling is different when i use the usb 3.1 ports and the usb 2.0 ports. It feels more direct on the 3.1 port but the mouse feels also a littlebit faster on movements.


----------



## x7007

After testing again.
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_cpustalls

The most useful lowered my Lag input was 

EHCI Hand-off - Disabled
XHCI Hand-off - Disabled

I don't have XHCI mode on my Gigabyte X399 aurous gaming 7 mobo. so USB 3.0 still active.

But also I ran a test using In-Depth Latency Tests comes with LatencyMon and I've found out my Intel 3770K and AMD 1950X Both has a serious issue with High-IRQ SMI request. and this issue comes using HT or SMT, disabling them fix the issue and fix my mouse lag input. The real fix was Hot-Fix they released after the first CPU and you needed to RMA it. So CPUs have serious issues before anything else.

You can see


----------



## r0ach

For anyone that didn't know:



r0ach said:


> Every Maxwell and higher + AMD Vega and higher generation GPU uses tiled rendering, which seems to render with higher latency in non-hardware accelerated desktop mode (Windows 7), which is one of the many reasons I'm a 5%'r that refuses to budge off Windows 8.1. Probably doesn't affect full-screen mode to clarify, but I don't like having a crappy desktop mode either. If you wanted to stay on Windows 7 and don't want desktop cursor movement to be crappy, the highest GPU you can use is an AMD 580.
> 
> The only problem there is - from the old days of Bitcoin mining - I've had an entire room full of GPUs at one time and noticed cursor movement was always worse on non-reference R9 290's, and it's probably difficult to find any reference AMDs from that generation nowadays. I'm not sure how they do it, but 3rd party vendors seem to screw up their BIOS implementations somehow. It could be numerous things from random UEFI crap, to timing issues like in Bitcoin mining on AMD cards how you had to set both the core and memory clocks to an exact number to get proper performance and adding say +200 mhz might give you worse performance than the lower clocked card.
> 
> I don't really know or care what the cause of the issue is, all I know is that many non-reference cards have issues. The problem also seems to be worse for AMD 3rd party vendors - might be due to architectural differences requiring some sort of specific timing as I was talking about. I would also prefer a reference Nvidia over a 3rd party, but reference Nvidia vs 3rd party hasn't been as big of an issue for me where you notice some 3rd party AMD having extreme floaty cursor feel compared to reference. Maybe some type of issue inherent to GCN timings, maybe not.


(also, don't manually select OpenGL render device in Nvidia control panel. Leave it on auto-select)


----------



## x7007

https://community.amd.com/thread/235028


----------



## r0ach

New mouse reviews. Ordered an Endgame XM1 and a Corsair M55 RGB Pro. They sent me a used Corsair from Amazon that looked like someone ate fried chicken with their hands then put it in the box...so sending that back. 

Endgame XM1 review:



r0ach said:


> Shape and Weight - Definitely better than Sensei 310, probably not as good as Kana v2 or regular Sensei shape and I'll explain why. The shape of the Logitech G302 sort of attempts to force my hand into a claw grip, but I can use it fingertip grip/claw hybrid grip too, and it works decently enough both ways. The shape of the Endgame XM1 feels contoured to attempt to force your hand way up on the mouse, and with virtually every mouse I always have my hand as far back on it as possible leaning towards a fingertip-style grip. So with this mouse I'm kinda fighting against/ignoring the countours all-together.
> 
> The contours are not that bad or pronounced, but still they serve absolutely no purpose for me and would be far better if the sides were just completely flat like a Kana in order avoid the annoyance they do provide. The only place to put my thumb in that case is on the bottom, very widest part of the mouse possible, with my pinky finger also on the widest part of the mouse possible. I believe this gives me a slightly wider grip stance than a standard Sensei or Kana, where the width of those two didn't really need to be increased and was already optimal. It's not a huge distance, but enough to make the shape not quite as comfortable as a Kana v2.
> 
> Sensor - firmware 1.88 beta implementation seems better/more responsive than Razer Lancehead TE and Sensei 10 (both which have the same PWM3389). However, from my recollection, I think the PWM3360 implementation in the Sensei 310 might be a bit better than any of those. I don't think there's many differences in the 3389 and 3360, but whatever framerate and processing differences there are, something tells me the 3360 might feel a bit more natural.
> 
> Just like changing monitor refresh rate from 60hz to 70hz is extremely noticeable in mouse movement - I can even notice a difference in 1 hz change which is why I'd never use a god awful feature like Gsync that does it on the fly - the stupid, variable framerate Pixar has added to all 3360 and 3389 mice is likely also going to cause issues and make the mice feel more abnormal compared to more classic gaming sensors like the 3600 DPI Logitech G400 without angle snapping (The 4000 DPI version sucks and just adds more smoothing to compensate for higher DPI).
> 
> It might be the case that the variable framerate changes in the 3389 are more noticeable and less natural than the 3360 for some reason, but just a guess. All I know is that from memory, the 3360 in the Logitech G502 and the Sensei 310 seem to both feel a bit more natural than every 3389 sensor I've tried. I wish they would alter the firmware to disable variable framerate entirely. Such a thing did not exist on universally liked sensors like the MS wheel mouse optical. Tell all the Greta Thunberg Soros puppets to go jump off a cliff because that variable framerate isn't saving much power anyway.
> 
> Buttons - Here's probably one of the biggest issues with the mouse. The buttons are very responsive, but they're loud and have sort of a hollow sounding 'thunk' reverb on the way back up. They also don't bounce back up as well as usual Logitech-style buttons. In order for the buttons to sound normal and to have that standard Logitech feel, you need to take a tiny pice of paper towel and fold it over twice so it's 4x the thickness of one sheet, then wedge it in between the very front of the button and the frame of the mouse right in the middle.
> 
> This causes them to have less travel distance, removes the plastic on plastic 'thunk' reverb sound, and the buttons also bounce back off of clicks virtually the same as a standard Logitech button afterwards. As for the side buttons, they're great and can't complain there. I've never seen a mouse with such good side buttons while not fixing the issues with the main buttons, which don't seem to hard to fix. Just have to place something soft on the frame to lower the travel distance a tiny bit and for the mouse buttons to better bounce off of. That tiny change fixes virtually everything about them, but the actuation sound is still a bit louder than Omrons in some other mice (50m vs 20m? random acoustics of a more hollow shell?).
> 
> Scroll Wheel - The scroll wheel needs to be moved back like an entire inch. It's moved way forward for some unknown reason. If you're fingertip gripping, the scroll wheel might as well not even exist where it's currently placed. Otherwise, the scroll movement itself is fine, and the button actuation is 'okay', but not quite as good as ones like the Kana v2, Xai, Sensei, etc. Steelseries always has the best middle mouse clicks. The one here isn't terrible, but I think requires a little more force. I've had far worse middle mouse buttons.


----------



## RamenRider

*AMD Gaming Input Lag Reduction Guide V3. Tell me if I missed anything.*



x7007 said:


> https://community.amd.com/thread/235028


That is me in the thread. Polaris, at least my XFX 580 8gb Black Edition, has an insane amount of input lag that has provided me depression for 2 years. Ryzen first gen possibly as well. Well it was a mix of awe, excitement, and depression. FPS was amazing, streaming and multitasking ability was amazing, gaming input lag was sad.



r0ach said:


> There is no fix. Windows XP was a hardware accelerated desktop, then Win 7 wasn't, then Win 8.1 was again. This is why desktop cursor movement vs exclusive full-screen 3d mode feels the same in Windows 8.1 but not Windows 7. What's bizarre is Nvidia doesn't support Windows 8.1 on 2060-2080 series but does on 1600 series. I refuse to use Windows 10 New World Order edition myself. It's Microsoft attempting to transition to a fully locked down, Apple-style OS, and I would use it solely as a game box and nothing else due to that, but cursor movement is worse than Win 8.1, so I have no use for it at all.


Windows 10 pre October 2016 was actually great for input lag and gaming, kinda like 7 and 8.1. Before they forced in the Windows Optimization feature. They did something so horrible that de-synchronized the desktop mouse movement and in game mouse movement forever. Before I remember changing the display scaling, such as 100% magnification to 125%, and it would affect the mouse movement or dpi in game. It was amazing, it was almost like cheating as if the magnification increased the hitboxes; or just adjusted the dpi resolution to make it easier to move/accelerate. Worked for Windows 7 and 8 as well. Whatever it was, it was a taste of heaven.



r0ach said:


> Every Maxwell and higher + AMD Vega and higher generation GPU uses tiled rendering, which seems to render with higher latency in non-hardware accelerated desktop mode (Windows 7), which is one of the many reasons I'm a 5%'r that refuses to budge off Windows 8.1. Probably doesn't affect full-screen mode to clarify, but I don't like having a crappy desktop mode either. If you wanted to stay on Windows 7 and don't want desktop cursor movement to be crappy, the highest GPU you can use is an AMD 580.
> 
> I don't really know or care what the cause of the issue is, all I know is that many non-reference cards have issues. The problem also seems to be worse for AMD 3rd party vendors - might be due to architectural differences requiring some sort of specific timing as I was talking about. I would also prefer a reference Nvidia over a 3rd party, but reference Nvidia vs 3rd party hasn't been as big of an issue for me where you notice some 3rd party AMD having extreme floaty cursor feel compared to reference. Maybe some type of issue inherent to GCN timings, maybe not.


Idk what 580 you had bro... but man I would love to try out Fury, Fury-X, and Reference 290.

==================================================================================================

I have lived with input lag on my Ryzen build for **2 years** but had IL(Input Lag) for 4 years due to windows 10. I had no clue why I had so much IL in all of my games(it's actually system lag in general) compared to my previous FX and Athlon builds. After 2 years of research I have some solutions that may help you. **<Note>** I am using the same setup: mouse, 144hz monitor, room, outlet as my previous setups so I can feel the performance differences.
https://community.amd.com/message/2932134

After giving away my old builds I have decided, I Must Go Back. I bought some FX parts for cheap included with an r9 270 and have finally determined that my Polaris GPU the XFX RX 580 8gb Black Edition has an insane amount of IL. Casual gamers/users will not notice but competitive gamers who play FPSs, Fighters, Racing games will likely notice. The inability to hit a target, or react to an attack or corner is proof enough. And those of you input lag deniers get the hell out right now, this thread is not meant for you. You do nothing but attack and don't even contribute anything to the discussion.

>Hurr durr, there's no such thing as input lag! It's all in your head! There's no difference between 144hz and 5fps! The Human Nose can only taste 2 colors!

Turns out there is input lag differences for CPUs and GPUs! As tested by Tech Yes City the Ryzen 2700x gets much less input lag than 9900k in desktop and workbenches. However, the 9900k and Xeon 1680 both get much lower input lag in CSGO than the 2700x. 




There may be other Polaris GPUs that also have IL(Input Lag) but me and some other people have all confirmed there is IL in the 580 and not just from one brand either.

a. https://community.amd.com/thread/235028

b. https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/9wqxx3/high_input_lag_after_upgrading_to_rx580/

c. https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/input-lag-after-i-upgraded-to-an-rx-580.3460461/

I do not know if reference versions make a difference as I have not tested them. I hear 3rd party GPUs can sometimes introduce IL through BIOS and software changes and that the reference 290s are king tier.

* A good input lag reduction came from upgrading to the new **Windows 10 1903.** I used windows 7, Regular Windows 10 1500s-1776 windows LTSB 2016, windows 10 LTSC 2019 all of them had the same lag. No matter how much I reinstalled it doesn't change the amount of input lag on my Ryzen(s). Using the new 1903 scheduler reduced my input lag by a noticeable amount. It eliminated that English keyboard language input lag bug I had and beyond. That 20% scheduling performance increase from windows 1903 claim does hold water. I have not tried 1909 but I'm sure it'll be even better. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/bz6egc/windows_1903_fixed_the_scheduler_for_ryzen/

As I recall, most of the IL for games came from around October 2016 when Windows 10 changed the way their dwm.exe worked. You have to disable full screen optimization in order to have normal performance in applications now and it affects both alt tabbed and fullscreen applications. <This is not just a Ryzen exclusive tweak> This works on most if not all computers Intel or AMD.

===================================================================================================================

**Other huge tweaks that affect input lag:**

* Your monitor settings. Just test out different settings: gaming modes, natural modes. I know for my benq monitor has this feature called AMA settings that changes performance significantly by changing the ms response time. Make sure to google your monitor optimizations too, there's loads of things you can discover.

* Your monitor cable.
DP Users can sometimes fix their stuttering, blacking out, or input lag problems with this method.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ax4838/attention_display_port_users_i_might_have_a/

* **Process Lasso** will help especially for Ryzen CCX performance. Just installing it and leaving it on at default(open at startup) is just fine, you will notice that your system is snappier just by having it on. There are however other things you can do such as Disabling SMT or managing Affinity for certain Applications. 
For Process Lasso on Ryzen I set my game to the primary cores(Disable SMT). And on other apps I set them on secondary cores(odds). So it would look like this on a 1600: Game 0,2,4,6,8,10 and other apps like chrome would be 1,3,5,7,9,11. Not only did this improve scheduling and responsiveness on older windows versions by 50% but increased FPS by around 40~ as well. However you have to remember FPS does not mean everything.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleRite/comments/97vv24/serious_performance_boost_on_ryzen_with_project/

* TURN OFF UNNECESSARY WINDOWS 10 FEATURES. Many times these hog up resources, processes, threads, or even BANDWIDTH. 




* Use this TimerResolution tool to set your timer to 0.5. Starting at 27:20 Panjno shows you what it does and how to use it. 



30,31)

* Disable Focus Assist in Windows 10. https://www.redmondpie.com/disable-...-to-fix-alttab-lag-issue-in-gaming-heres-how/

* Your application settings: **Disable Fullscreen Optimization** on win 10 or aero for win7.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a1t86m/are_you_guys_disabling_full_screen_optimization/

* Some random bugfix that I needed: I had to change keyboard language from English(US) to **English(Philippines)**. I assume it has something to do with their spy/bloatware. I was even using Win 10 LTSC 2019 1809. Then again I felt the same lag on my dual boot win7. Can confirm the input lag is on English Canada as well. So the best I tried is English Philippines. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D90UqHmUEAE3uI7?format=png&name=medium

Turns out it might not be random. Another user apparently feels it too on US. He changed to his to US India(I'm assuming English India) and it felt better for him. https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1550666-usb-polling-precision-94.html#post28277082 However I'm not sure he is still using US Keyboard. I use US keyboard with Eng Philippines.

===================================================================================================================

**AMD GPU Tweaks:**

* Disable HDCP Support. May reduce input lag, but some 480 and 580 users need this if they have the mouse lag problem. It has already been patched, but you never know.
https://community.amd.com/thread/231030

* Have **Chill** or **Anti-Lag** as the only things to have on(depending on what game you play.) Some games require uncapped fps with anti-lag on or some games work better with chill only so it's up to you to test them out for yourself. ~~Examples~~ Overwatch: Chill on, everything off. Paladins: Anti-Lag on, uncap FPS.

Before chill and anti-lag existed my r9 270x and r7 370 both performed very well no input lag at all but switching over to rx 580 I felt some strange lag. Setting in game frame limiters helped a teeny bit somewhat but these settings provided just as much of a boost, as upgrading to Windows 1903+.

So my **Best Radeon Settings** are Disable Freesync, Disable Enhanced Sync, and enable Chill or Anti-Lag. However if you have better configuration suggests or any other combinations you want me to test out, just tell me. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...vs_nvidia_ultralow_latency/f0skoxd/?context=3

* HDMI has less input lag than DP, and of course VGA has the least lag.
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3780&start=20
===================================================================================================================

**BIOS and Windows Installation Input Lag Otimizations**

Here is the infamous Roach Guide. https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...os-optimization-guide-modern-pc-hardware.html

And here is another guide made by /u/Lhun to perfect your windows installation. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7yfji8/my_advice_for_a_modern_os_and_uefi_configuration/

================================================================================================================

**Tin Foil Tweaks**

* Disable HPET Precision Timer on Bios or OS. Such a favorite for many people, yet I haven't really seen if it reduces input lag or not. However it may increase performance/fps for Ryzen; if you disable. 




* Your OS settings/registry/ect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/killerinst...excellent_guide_to_optimizing_your_windows_10

* Disable Nagles and set System Responsiveness ect, Fortnite especially felt much better after these tweaks.

>"Whenever someone is suggesting a change to \Games they always say: "In the same Registry hive as the above tweak, you can also change the priority of Games. To implement this tweak, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games and change the following registry values:

* "GPU Priority" change its values to 8 for gaming."Priority" set to 6 for gaming."(I don't feel it's any different form default.)

* MSI Utility. You can configure MSI line interupts manually but MSI utility just so much more convenient. 
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/

The utility was updated recently and now you can add priorities towards each device as well, however I just don't know which settings are the most beneficial yet, just don't change the MSI mode of your OS drive.
Before you use MSI Utility, you have to make a system restore checkpoint first. This is due to if you change the mode of your Sata or hard drive devices to MSI mode your OS will not boot anymore. If system restore doesn't work, this video helps to restore your registry but you can also just make up your own backup. 




* **Disable CSM or set CSM to mostly legacy** in BIOS. For me, it felt great on my x370 prime-pro, my system felts snappier but may be placebo.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...-bios-optimization-guide-modern-pc-har&#8230;

* Set PCIE Gen settings to Gen 2 instead of 3.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-i...uide-modern-pc-hardware-390.html#post27948920

* This reg mod for 580 users. If you have AMD gpu try downloading Radeon Mod and using this reg file. It is akin to Nvidia Profile Inspector. However it is probably hit or miss for other people. For me it felt better but you probably have to develop your own settings if you have a different GPU.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/92uqph/radeonmod/

>"Here's the (ocasionally) updated pastebin version of all the tweaks i found that do something on AMD GPUs. AMD GPU Performance REG for 19.1.1+ (UPDATED 14/03/2019 for bugfixes. Should work now.)

>I tested this with a RX 580 V1 MSI OCed to 1425core 2250mem 50% power limit and with disabling the 
300mhz memory P0 state in overdriveNTool, great performance. I also added some DVRanalytics keys to disable 
in case you enabled AMD User Experience improvement program. Driver latest 19.3.2 tested on Windows 10 
1809 October Update, AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 16gb of RAM PC."

>Theres also this other radeon reg file that you can try out as well. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...m_medium=web2x

* Kill atiesrxx.exe
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen..._latest_adrenaline_2019_rx580_driver/eq8m0jz/

===================================================================================================================

**Edit:** Yeah it is "placebo" but I can certainly tell the difference as a competitive gamer. **If we could feel the difference between V-Sync on and off, why is it so farfetched that I can feel differences in these tweaks?**

I usually rank at least diamond or masters in all the games I played: Overwatch, League of Legends, SFV but for the past 2 years I couldn't really play any of them competitively because of some over arching lag in my system. I mean I **COULD** play them but it's just disgusting to play with input lag and hurts my soul. First 3 hours after tweaking I finally moved on from diamond to masters in Overwatch and the difference is immediately noticeable if I switch back. Flipping through options I can definitely tell the difference. It might just be better frame delivery or better consistency but whatever It is, there is much less input lag from my system. This does, not however eliminate all of the lag entirely.

**Other Notes**

I suspect CCX might still be causing problems though and have yet to test it if I can find out the ccx for first gen Ryzen. I have tested GTX 970 with my Ryzen but the difference is negligible. The Windows 10 1903 upgrade was much more significant. I did try out default AMD GPU drivers that did not include chill and anti-lag but it's slightly different; same rules apply, as turning off enhanced sync feels better, but the only real major changes are at the hardware level. Switching back to R9 270 made the biggest difference because in performance; the RX 580 IL even affects people with Intel. https://community.amd.com/thread/235028

I have yet to test the new microcode updates with agesa 1.0.0.4 But it hasn't reached my Asus b350me yet, currently on BIOS 5407; and neither have tried Windows 10 1909 yet. My FX build is almost complete so I will update later on how much of a difference it makes; deep down I already know it is going to be grand. I also would love to test out Ryzen 2 differences but I do not have much time or money anymore as I am back in school. Hope this helps though.


----------



## r0ach

Jesus, man. That's a lot of computer problems. At that point I would just pick the thing up and throw it out of the window and go back to something I know that works like an older Intel + Nvidia system. Since you seem to value mouse consistency, I don't have any experience with current AMD cards - I wouldn't use one now because they no longer support Win 8.1 - I know for a fact the newest Nvidia drivers are now great lag-wise ever since they added "ultra low latency mode" aka flip que 0 again on these newest 441.66.

Just build a system with a Skylake or older CPU, DON'T apply ANY spectre or meltdown BIOS or OS fixes, install Win 8.1 Pro and don't update it at all (it's a gaming burner box); use the older distribution of 8.1 before they started backporting Win10 garbage (SHA1: 9D064479070A364FDC034C7B2DD67AAA8A4AA147), and you will have a much better time. I'm pretty sure all Nvidia drivers between 347.09 beta up until these new 'low latency' Nvidia drivers were all bad too, so there's nothing strange about every AMD 580 driver you've tried being bad. 

It's just that I know for a fact Nvidia is decent now, so no point touching AMD and going through the hassle of trying to figure out how to fix it or what settings to use or if it can even be fixed. Use these EXACT Nvidia settings below too on 441.66:

















[/quote]


----------



## Avalar

@r0ach

How about something more specific to newer hardware? Maybe a general guide for Ryzen systems? Lots of people, including myself, have to use Windows 10 because of newer hardware, and to play certain games. I've always done everything from the previous guide that can improve latency on any system, but none of it is specific to my hardware anymore.


----------



## r0ach

I can't write anything on the subject of Ryzen because...I don't have any Ryzen hardware? And the fact that 1) I've never gotten good results on Windows 10 mouse-wise before and 2) Windows 10 is a 'rolling update' OS that is a constant changing set of goalposts make it difficult to even do. 

For me personally, I'm kinda just staying on Win 8.1 and Skylake era hardware for now. CPU-wise, there's no real performance gain even buying these new CPUs. Some tiny amount, but just about every game is GPU bound anyway, especially if the trend is everyone moving to 1440p. By the time anyone even needs to leave Win 8.1, I imagine things like Vulkan on Linux might finally be viable by then. I don't really see Microsoft being able to force people onto Win 10 with DX12. I think their API monopoly will probably end if not for portability reasons alone.


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## nofearek9

have you tryed slimed versions of w10 like "MPB Second Part (Extreme10 MPB 2)​" ?


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## Avalar

Yeah I haven't updated Windows in forever anyway. Still on 1803.


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## r0ach

nofearek9 said:


> have you tryed slimed versions of w10 like "MPB Second Part (Extreme10 MPB 2)​" ?


I would never use one of those hacked up Windows builds because none of the people making those are focused on or capable of determining if the changes they make are having any sort of detriment to mouse movement. Like I said before, Windows is basically a Jenga cube and removing some random thing that should have no effect on mice at all like "root printer que" and the entire printer stack will suddenly make the mouse move ridiculously faster for no reason, making it completely uncontrollable. So there's no way I would want some random guy's changes who isn't testing every single change vs effect on mice.


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## RamenRider

Yeah no, I'm good roach, I would rather be finding tweaks as the windows updates keep rolling out. And I'm never going back to that mossad spyware processor company.


----------



## BUFUMAN

Avalar said:


> @r0ach
> 
> 
> 
> How about something more specific to newer hardware? Maybe a general guide for Ryzen systems? Lots of people, including myself, have to use Windows 10 because of newer hardware, and to play certain games. I've always done everything from the previous guide that can improve latency on any system, but none of it is specific to my hardware anymore.


It's not that complicated to with Ryzen CPU

I tried many tweaks on Win10 since 2017.

- my Mouse setup was good from day one.
If you have a issue with your mouse it's the mouse / mouse pad / your windows Mouse settings in combination with your dpi. Don't use mouse acceleration! Use the slider in Mouse settings to get 1:1 movement to your mousepointer at the Display.

- best tweaks I wrote down in this thread.

1. Intelligent standby list cleaner (ISLC) v1.0.2.1

https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1256

I setup this tool to clean the standby memory fast with the setting "free memory is lower than". 
Use the Value u have on the top Free Memory after starting the Program. This will increase the the period of the memory cleaner.

Set the timer resolution to Minimum Value 0.5s

Autostart etc.

2. Don't play with HPET Values on Windows 10 if u can disable it at your Bios.
If you can't check the Value with CMD.
It should be disabled.

3. Check with DPC Latency timer your DPC and ISR counts to find any bad driver etc.

4. HDMI has less Latency as DP. I don't know why but it is.

5. Use Windows App uninstaller and uninstall unneeded Apps.

I use Xbox App for Forza etc.
That's why it stays on my system.
But I uninstalled all the other crap like gamebar etc.

6. Setup your graphics driver with the right Powermode.

7. That's it. Don't mess around with win 10 to much as one said. They change to many things with updates.



Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## Timecard

Dropping this here, based on some recent work I've done. How to disable Ease of Access features, you can't do it properly through Windows GUI menus.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1739818-disabling-ease-access.html


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## Gonzalez07

Timecard said:


> Dropping this here, based on some recent work I've done. How to disable Ease of Access features, you can't do it properly through Windows GUI menus.
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1739818-disabling-ease-access.html


do you notice a difference with it disabled?


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## Timecard

Some have and some not but the point is to provide info for properly disabling ease of access features and a nice way of looking at the settings Microsoft has in memory.


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## CiselS

I fix 1000hz unstable

just install win 8.1

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375...n-8-1-win-7-old-motherboard.html#post28268720


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## PurpleChef

Windows 7 OP


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## CiselS

PurpleChef said:


> Windows 7 OP


wow is this in safe mode?

really good stable polling rate


----------



## RamenRider

r0ach said:


> Just build a system with a Skylake or older CPU, DON'T apply ANY spectre or meltdown BIOS or OS fixes, install Win 8.1 Pro and don't update it at all (it's a gaming burner box); use the older distribution of 8.1 before they started backporting Win10 garbage (SHA1: 9D064479070A364FDC034C7B2DD67AAA8A4AA147), and you will have a much better time. I'm pretty sure all Nvidia drivers between 347.09 beta up until these new 'low latency' Nvidia drivers were all bad too, so there's nothing strange about every AMD 580 driver you've tried being bad.


I forgot to mention, you understand older Intel have an insane amount of problems, it's ridiculous. 




Also how do I use that sha1 hash code. I'm noob.


----------



## PurpleChef

CiselS said:


> wow is this in safe mode?
> 
> really good stable polling rate


No, its not safemode. I did chase the lowest number before i print screened, but its still low latency all the time and the polling rate is amazing. I cant achieve this stable polling rate in windows 10. makes me sad


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## Wuest3nFuchs

RamenRider said:


> Yeah no, I'm good roach, I would rather be finding tweaks as the windows updates keep rolling out. And I'm never going back to that mossad spyware processor company.


[emoji106] i thought the same when zen+ was released and bought a 2700x. happy amd customer since then 

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## x7007

please read my post how to improve the mouse in instant. it also depends on your language you are already using. so it might not have effect.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1550666-usb-polling-precision-97.html#post28296184


Also, something else I've found. If you have any problem with DPC or some weird slowdowns, reinstall every System Device on Device Manager. it seems to have fixed my DPC issue. I didn't have a single jump while doing so many things. And the mouse feels much better.


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## r0ach

Anyone own this new LG 27" 144hz panel and know if it allows you to use Display Scaling or if it forces GPU scaling instead?

https://www.amazon.com/LG-27GL850-B-Ultragear-Compatible-Monitor/dp/B07YGZL8XF/


----------



## RamenRider

BUFUMAN said:


> It's not that complicated to with Ryzen CPU
> 
> I tried many tweaks on Win10 since 2017.
> 
> - my Mouse setup was good from day one.
> If you have a issue with your mouse it's the mouse / mouse pad / your windows Mouse settings in combination with your dpi. Don't use mouse acceleration! Use the slider in Mouse settings to get 1:1 movement to your mousepointer at the Display.
> 
> - best tweaks I wrote down in this thread.
> 
> 1. Intelligent standby list cleaner (ISLC) v1.0.2.1
> 
> https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1256
> 
> I setup this tool to clean the standby memory fast with the setting "free memory is lower than".
> Use the Value u have on the top Free Memory after starting the Program. This will increase the the period of the memory cleaner.
> 
> Set the timer resolution to Minimum Value 0.5s
> 
> Autostart etc.
> 
> 2. Don't play with HPET Values on Windows 10 if u can disable it at your Bios.
> If you can't check the Value with CMD.
> It should be disabled.
> 
> 3. Check with DPC Latency timer your DPC and ISR counts to find any bad driver etc.
> 
> 4. HDMI has less Latency as DP. I don't know why but it is.
> 
> 5. Use Windows App uninstaller and uninstall unneeded Apps.
> 
> I use Xbox App for Forza etc.
> That's why it stays on my system.
> But I uninstalled all the other crap like gamebar etc.
> 
> 6. Setup your graphics driver with the right Powermode.
> 
> 7. That's it. Don't mess around with win 10 to much as one said. They change to many things with updates.


The problem with Ryzen, is that Windows is not optimized for it and was only until Windows 1903 and beyond that it included the scheduler update fix. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/bz6egc/windows_1903_fixed_the_scheduler_for_ryzen/

But the problem with Windows 10 1809 and over is when they were doing the spectre meltdown patches they permanently increased the QueueryPerformanceFrequency to 10mhz! https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...-windows/44946807-5355-4b36-ba3e-43aa86ce30c0

Sometimes during my 2 year depression, I often wondered if I was going insane. I downloaded windows 10 LTSC 2019(1809) for the sole purpose of optimal performance because it comes debloated without all the unnecessary trash. 








r0ach said:


> Anyone own this new LG 27" 144hz panel and know if it allows you to use Display Scaling or if it forces GPU scaling instead?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/LG-27GL850-B-Ultragear-Compatible-Monitor/dp/B07YGZL8XF/


I didn't even know monitors can affect or even force the way the GPU handles scaling...

Anyways I'm looking at this 8.1 ISO from piratebay10 I'm trying to download since I can't find the sha1 hash you gave me. https://naterice.com/windows-8-and-8-1-iso-names-and-sha1-hashes/

I remember you said that 8.1 was Great until they started importing updates from windows 10. 2018 update 4 should be good right?

* Windows Embedded Industry Pro 8.1 X64 ESD en-US OCT 2018


[ RELEASE INFO ]

* File: WEMB81.X64ENU.OCT2018.iso
* Size: 3,90GB
* Format: Bootable ISO

* SOURCE: 
* 9600.16384.WINBLUE_RTM.130821-1623_X64FRE_EMBEDDEDINDUSTRY_EN-US-IRM_CEI_X64FRE_EN-US_DV5

* CRC32: 8db5a5d8
* MD5 : 465095feb124f13fe104e06528139ec3
* SHA-1: 2263a119d4ecd25766cc911f34e7be274d84726a

[ CONTENTS ]

Integrated / Pre-installed:

* NET Framework 3.5
* NET Framework 4.7.2
* Important & Security ONLY Updates - 2018-10-09

Setupcomplete / Post-install:

* Windows Defender Updates

* LANGUAGE: ENGLISH US

[ EDITION INCLUDED ]

* Windows 8.1 Embedded Industry

[ SCREENSHOTS ]

https://extraimage.net/image/7kVs

[ FEATURES ]

* UEFI-ready 
* (Use attached Rufus USB-tool to make UEFI-bootable)
* install.wim compressed to recovery format (install.esd)
* Diagnostics and Recovery Toolset 8.1 (Microsoft DaRT)

[ INSTALLATION & INFORMATION ]

* Create bootable USB (highly recommended) with Rufus 
* (attached) or burn to DVD at slow speed.

* Hope you will enjoy this release!

* Regards,
* Generation2


----------



## BUFUMAN

I think you don't need it anymore. For me win 10 is now ok.

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## Timecard

Plus... I'd get/compare hashes of ISO from reputable sources  Last thing you need is a sneaky backdoor in a pirated version of windows.


----------



## r0ach

The Windows 8.1 x64 Pro hash I listed was downloaded directly from Microsoft, not the Pirate Bay lol. The only reason I noticed Microsoft had altered the ISO is because on the newer one, if you have an active internet connection at install time, they attempt to force you to create a Microsoft account just to install the OS instead of using a local account. 

As for monitors, disregard my post about the new LG. They seem to be coming in around 800:1 contrast ratio while the Asus TUF VG27AQ is around 1200:1. The LG is otherwise superior in motion handling, but if you're going to make that picture quality sacrifice, might as well get an 8 bit TN panel for even better motion handling it seems like.


----------



## CiselS

sorry this is a mistake 

I want to post there https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1550666-usb-polling-precision-98.html#post28299760


----------



## CiselS

sorry this is a mistake too

I want to post there https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1550666-usb-polling-precision-98.html#post28299760


----------



## bl4cklabel

r0ach said:


> The Windows 8.1 x64 Pro hash I listed was downloaded directly from Microsoft, not the Pirate Bay lol. The only reason I noticed Microsoft had altered the ISO is because on the newer one, if you have an active internet connection at install time, they attempt to force you to create a Microsoft account just to install the OS instead of using a local account.
> 
> As for monitors, disregard my post about the new LG. They seem to be coming in around 800:1 contrast ratio while the Asus TUF VG27AQ is around 1200:1. The LG is otherwise superior in motion handling, but if you're going to make that picture quality sacrifice, might as well get an 8 bit TN panel for even better motion handling it seems like.


HP OMEN x27 1440p 240hz TN panel seems to have excellent contrast response speed.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/hp/omen-x-27


----------



## RamenRider

Ok guys. Here is my latest Input Lag Guide.

https://community.amd.com/message/2...TMHNPpJvcUJ73n8KSD-Q951-MStxi6YZLWotL_8b8hvA8

For those of you who has Win 8.1 does it feel better to disable high dpi scaling in the exe compatability tab? It does 100% for me. My input lag optimization is 99.8%finished.

For those of you have Win 10 does it feel better when you override high DPI scaling for Application or System? For me System feels best. System enhanced feels the worst.


----------



## BUFUMAN

RamenRider said:


> Ok guys. Here is my latest Input Lag Guide.
> 
> 
> 
> https://community.amd.com/message/2...TMHNPpJvcUJ73n8KSD-Q951-MStxi6YZLWotL_8b8hvA8
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who has Win 8.1 does it feel better to disable high dpi scaling in the exe compatability tab? It does 100% for me. My input lag optimization is 99.8%finished.
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you have Win 10 does it feel better when you override high DPI scaling for Application or System? For me System feels best. System enhanced feels the worst.


Good hard work, thx for this!

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## PurpleChef

RamenRider said:


> Ok guys. Here is my latest Input Lag Guide.
> 
> https://community.amd.com/message/2...TMHNPpJvcUJ73n8KSD-Q951-MStxi6YZLWotL_8b8hvA8
> 
> For those of you who has Win 8.1 does it feel better to disable high dpi scaling in the exe compatability tab? It does 100% for me. My input lag optimization is 99.8%finished.
> 
> For those of you have Win 10 does it feel better when you override high DPI scaling for Application or System? For me System feels best. System enhanced feels the worst.


Download Process Lasso - This aint doing much on my 4 core cpu. Can just set priority without this program, and me and alot of hardcore gamers disable ALL type off power saving features everywere. How is it "the most amazing piece of software" ?

Use MarkC's Mouse Fix - This does nothing and havent done anything for a long time. Useless.

Windows 10 Language Spyware Bug - Really? change to English Philippines? were is the evidence? only your feeling?
Alot of the stuff you link seems outdated and just copy paste tbh. 

"UEFI = BAD  " Lol really, theres no truth to this ever.

Yeah and W8.1 dosnt run new COD, and Wc3 refuses to work also, so its a no go for me.


----------



## Timecard

Here's some new observations that have evidence to boot, if you missed it in the other section, see links below. Applies to all versions of windows at least from win7 to win10 1909, and both realtek and intel nics. Hint NetworkThrottleIndex ON significantly reduces network (NDIS) processing latency then a few other changes/observations which gave it added reduction of dpc latency, maybe people will stop disabling it unless they can prove better performance otherwise with other settings.

I'd also suggest setting NetworkThrottleIndex to 15 or 20 to increase throughput a little more than 10 (default value) which limits you to roughly ~15MB/s.

Network Packet Scheduler Timer Resolution (different than system resolution)
https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...-stack-packet-scheduler-timer-resolution.html

Reducing ISR DPC Processing Times for Network Adapters
https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...sr-dpc-processing-times-network-adapters.html

To note NetworkThrottleIndex isn't controlled by MMCSS, and you will still see the benefits for those paranoid about MMCSS who disable it. Melody mentioned this and I confirmed last weekend, ndis dpc measurments were the same when NetworkThrottleIndex was set/enabled and MMCSS driver disabled/not loaded in the kernel.

Here's my script used to simplify measuring dpc/isr, you need xperf from the performance analyzer suite included in Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit (ADK).
https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCSetup/blob/master/Scripts/xperfdpcisr.ps1


----------



## loopy750

PurpleChef said:


> Download Process Lasso - This aint doing much on my 4 core cpu. Can just set priority without this program, and me and alot of hardcore gamers disable ALL type off power saving features everywere. How is it "the most amazing piece of software" ?
> 
> Use MarkC's Mouse Fix - This does nothing and havent done anything for a long time. Useless.
> 
> Windows 10 Language Spyware Bug - Really? change to English Philippines? were is the evidence? only your feeling?
> Alot of the stuff you link seems outdated and just copy paste tbh.
> 
> "UEFI = BAD  " Lol really, theres no truth to this ever.
> 
> Yeah and W8.1 dosnt run new COD, and Wc3 refuses to work also, so its a no go for me.


Yeah there's a lot more there too. I've pretty much given up looking at most of this stuff these days. Anytime I see multiple "feels" and/or "r0ach" mentioned, I just ALT+F4 and walk away. No mention of spectre/meltdown registry entries either from what I can see, which impacts performance more than all the other 'tweaks' combined.


----------



## Nawafwabs

I did this test 2 days and i check it and it confirmed that the emi is the main issue 

if you think power condition will fix it 100% this is wrong 

You need to fix the hole house or you face this delay all your life or maybe you move to other house and do emi test over 24 hours to make sure not effect by other things


----------



## x7007

Nawafwabs said:


> I did this test 2 days and i check it and it confirmed that the emi is the main issue
> 
> if you think power condition will fix it 100% this is wrong
> 
> You need to fix the hole house or you face this delay all your life or maybe you move to other house and do emi test over 24 hours to make sure not effect by other things
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/wGfhfayYfHU


Can you give me more details? What should the numbers be, do I need to check every plug? you mean when it's morning then the EMI changes right?


----------



## Nawafwabs

x7007 said:


> Can you give me more details? What should the numbers be, do I need to check every plug? you mean when it's morning then the EMI changes right?


Numbers should be below 200mV 

Yeah u need to check all plug bcuz if you fix one others will give you emi maybe next room will cuz your input lag 

not should be morning , some people in the night feel good some all time bad 

You need to check your house and make sure below 200mv and discover what give you high value

Look at this video maybe help you 






( sorry about my english )


----------



## x7007

Nawafwabs said:


> Numbers should be below 200mV
> 
> Yeah u need to check all plug bcuz if you fix one others will give you emi maybe next room will cuz your input lag
> 
> not should be morning , some people in the night feel good some all time bad
> 
> You need to check your house and make sure below 200mv and discover what give you high value
> 
> Look at this video maybe help you
> 
> https://youtu.be/kf2CLsr-uMs
> 
> ( sorry about my english )


Thanks!

Where can I get the device like yours?? post a link or the name?


----------



## CrucialNUG

Nawafwabs said:


> I did this test 2 days and i check it and it confirmed that the emi is the main issue
> 
> if you think power condition will fix it 100% this is wrong
> 
> You need to fix the hole house or you face this delay all your life or maybe you move to other house and do emi test over 24 hours to make sure not effect by other things
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/wGfhfayYfHU


Cool video but these greenwaves detectors are far from definitive proof of anything. Only people that have experienced this problem first hand will believe it. The proper measurement test will be a spectrum analyzer or an oscilloscope. We would then need to track the source of interference or fix the return path (grounding) for it. This is not an easy task. The second video you link to is not very informative at all, the interference that is messing with our PCs is likely not from a noisy circuit or any basic appliances and wiring in your home.


----------



## Nawafwabs

CrucialNUG said:


> Cool video but these greenwaves detectors are far from definitive proof of anything. Only people that have experienced this problem first hand will believe it. The proper measurement test will be a spectrum analyzer or an oscilloscope. We would then need to track the source of interference or fix the return path (grounding) for it. This is not an easy task. The second video you link to is not very informative at all, the interference that is messing with our PCs is likely not from a noisy circuit or any basic appliances and wiring in your home.


We need more work and test but this is proof for me And i think its enough bcuz i test it when PC good and bad and give me different results 

What i learn not only fix one plug even we dont need ups or power condition we need to fix the hole house bcuZ it effect PC when you put it in there range


----------



## Nawafwabs

x7007 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Where can I get the device like yours?? post a link or the name?


Its a bit expensive 

https://greenwavefilters.com/product/emi-meter/

Maybe you will find cheaper 

Just make sure you had problem like us before you buy it


----------



## skupples

so it was the CFL bulbs all this time? 

that sound is identical to what the shock feels like from one


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Here's some new observations that have evidence to boot, if you missed it in the other section, see links below. Applies to all versions of windows at least from win7 to win10 1909, and both realtek and intel nics. Hint NetworkThrottleIndex ON significantly reduces network (NDIS) processing latency then a few other changes/observations which gave it added reduction of dpc latency, maybe people will stop disabling it unless they can prove better performance otherwise with other settings.
> 
> I'd also suggest setting NetworkThrottleIndex to 15 or 20 to increase throughput a little more than 10 (default value) which limits you to roughly ~15MB/s.
> 
> Network Packet Scheduler Timer Resolution (different than system resolution)
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...-stack-packet-scheduler-timer-resolution.html
> 
> Reducing ISR DPC Processing Times for Network Adapters
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...sr-dpc-processing-times-network-adapters.html
> 
> To note NetworkThrottleIndex isn't controlled by MMCSS, and you will still see the benefits for those paranoid about MMCSS who disable it. Melody mentioned this and I confirmed last weekend, ndis dpc measurments were the same when NetworkThrottleIndex was set/enabled and MMCSS driver disabled/not loaded in the kernel.
> 
> Here's my script used to simplify measuring dpc/isr, you need xperf from the performance analyzer suite included in Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit (ADK).
> https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCSetup/blob/master/Scripts/xperfdpcisr.ps1



Thanks! testing it! seems like the mouse improved but I'll test it for the week


----------



## Biks

Just to say that I´ve rolled back from W10 to W8 after reading this thread and mouse feels sharp again. Insane!


----------



## r0ach

So, just picked up an Asus VG279Q 1080p 144hz IPS panel. The last panel I bought and returned was the new LG 27GN750-B 240hz IPS. I couldn't aim worth a damn with that 240hz LG panel for some reason, but this Asus is pretty good. I've tried a good amount of 'gaming' panels before and noticed there's a lot of differences in cursor movement on each one, so you can't just go by raw input lag numbers. 

One such example is the "DDC/CI" option. From my understanding, it seems to be a setting that allows you to run programs on the PC to interface with the monitor and change things like brightness without touching the monitor itself. Some monitors expose this setting like Asus and Acer but not the LG. Having it enabled seems to dull down cursor movement a bit, so this is one example of how not all monitors are equal and you will want to buy one that exposes that option.

The Asus is supposed to only be HDMI 1.4 but I'm currently running it natively at 144hz over HDMI, which I didn't know was possible. I was expecting HDMI to be locked to 120hz.


----------



## skTear

aa


----------



## crankzt

can someone help me?

https://www.overclock.net/forum/78-pc-gaming/1744944-csgo-feels-unsmooth-high-fps.html#post28392214


----------



## Infection11

i put xhci hand off on disable on bios.. 
now should i plug in my mouse at usb 3.0 port or 2.0?


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

skTear said:


> @r0ach Does windows 8.1 really have better desktop mouse movement than windows 7? 8.1 has forced vsync on the desktop, does that mean the desktop mouse movement on windows 7 is even laggier than vsync on?


I'd say Windows 7 has slightly less input-lag but at the same time a bit worse mouse movement.


----------



## Avalar

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> I'd say Windows 7 has slightly less input-lag but at the same time a bit worse mouse movement.


Why though? How do you test that? The worse mouse movement?


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Avalar said:


> Why though? How do you test that? The worse mouse movement?


I have 3 different PCs at home. Installed Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 on each. Used the same image, settings, etc. Then just played CS:GO while switching PCs & OS's (peripherals were the same).


----------



## x7007

k, so step by step Mouse Input Lag Fix. The important ones.

1. BIOS XHCI Hand-off ENABLED
2.HPET BIOS DISABLED - For me . could be otherwise others
3.TESTING SMT Disabled - Best High_Level IRQL Compare to SMT On
4.Windows Language English Philippines instead USA.
5. Windows Bcdedit / DisableDynamicTick Yes / useplatformTick Yes
6.TESTING Disable MSI for USB Mouse/Keyboard
7.TESTING Focus Assist ALL OFF
8.TESTING Human Interface Device Service Service Disabled
9. TESTING LGHUB Onboard Vs Software Opened/Closed - OnBoard Software Closed seems better for now
10. Don't change Network ThottlingIndex Default 10 and SystemResponsiveness Default 20
11. [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Psched]
"TimerResolution"=dword:00000001


From Testing I don't care if my Windows Timer Resolution is not 1.0 and not 0.5. I noticed that when running kind of Android Emulators the Windows Timer Resolution even with HPET enabled and supposed to be Timer 1.0ms and 0.5ms is 0.97xx number. so I don't think we should care. Some programs take their own Timer Resolution so it wouldn't change anything. I played multiplayer HOS and such and didn't notice any bit of difference, except I did not have a single lag or mouse issue, compared to HPET enabled which I just had random freezes, this also might because of SMT which I always had Enabled but Disabled because I have 16 cores so I wouldn't need it much anyway.

*NOTICE*. If testing the mice on Desktop make sure to have the GPU on P0 clocks, which means like you are playing a game or running a movie on youtube or just enable Maximum performance profile on NVCP power management.


----------



## Nawafwabs

Dont waste your time to test setting 

If you play on pc when the house is below 50Vm in emi meter

I swear you will forget windows tweak and registry tweak 

Dude its super smooth you cant achieve that be changing setting


----------



## x7007

Nawafwabs said:


> Dont waste your time to test setting
> 
> If you play on pc when the house is below 50Vm in emi meter
> 
> I swear you will forget windows tweak and registry tweak
> 
> Dude its super smooth you cant achieve that be changing setting


ye but my problem is not the house because it doesn't change morning or evening. and I have ups which I tried on battery with all house power off.


----------



## x7007

New things I've found

Ok, so step by step Mouse Input Lag Fix

1. BIOS XHCI Hand-off ENABLED / *Big difference*
2. Windows Bcdedit / DisableDynamicTick Yes / *Big difference*
3.HPET BIOS DISABLED - For me . could be otherwise others /*Big difference*
4.Disable MSI for USB Mouse/Keyboard /*Big difference*
5.Selective USB Suspend Disable/Disable Power Save on all Device Manager USB Controllers /*Big difference*
6. LGHUB Onboard Vs Software Opened/Closed - Installed But not running / Mousepad calibrated 

TESTING Focus Assist ALL OFF
TESTING Human Interface Device Service Service Disabled
TESTING SMT Disabled - Best High_Level IRQL Compare to SMT On /*Big difference*
TESTING /Windows Language English Philippines instead USA - Seems Fixed on newest Windows version


Share if you didn't do something from the list already or you found something that made it better

Also, I realized something, some motherboards have more aggressive power savings also the controller itself, could be motherboard firmware or actual hardware/chipset. so until we use the exactly same motherboard we won't know "EXACTLY" what is going on. but if a setting manages to set it correctly then it should be the same fix


----------



## Biks

Ive been doing roach settings in all my PCs since I discover this thread way back in time and notice some improvements, for sure.

Recently i bought new PC:

I3-8100 CPU @ 3,60Ghz 
Mobo Tuf Gaming B360 Pro
Ram 8gbs Vengeance 2400mhz

At 1st i was running W10 and mouse was feeling horrible, did the tweaks, still notice improvements however was still not enough, mouse was still very bad.

Then i decided to change my OS to W8.1 and I was almost going Pro in CSGO , mouse was great, super sharp, was finally having fun but few days ago I updated my Bios and since then mouse is back to where it was.

Reinstalled OS again, over and over, rooled back the bios update, ive used Asus Secure Erase before each installation and everything is the same. Each time i perform new OS instalation mouse feels diferent, gets a kind new of patern of behaviour...

Any idea?


----------



## x7007

did anyone see this?
the main compatibility here is the USB on my laptop as intel motherboard H87 and don't have mouse issues here. I will check my desktop where it has different 

http://www.geoffchappell.com/studies/windows/km/ntoskrnl/api/kshim/index.htm


I don't have the registry key in the registry 

could it affect something?


----------



## x7007

no one has thought about the couple posts before the last one I made?


----------



## Timecard

x7007 said:


> did anyone see this? I don't have the registry key in the registry, could it affect something?


I believe this controls all shims, the actual database is in C:\Windows\apppatch and for drivers (XHCI) it's in drvmain.sdb, you can read it using SDB Explorer (http://ericzimmerman.github.io/#!index.md)

https://www.reddit.com/r/ReverseEng...using_the_nt_kernel_shim_engine_tech_talk_by/


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> BIOS XHCI Hand-off ENABLED / *Big difference*


 In theory, shouldn't be needed for Windows 8.1/10. Personally I have it disabled.



x7007 said:


> HPET BIOS DISABLED - For me . could be otherwise others /*Big difference*


 Can confirm. Though I don't have HPET option in BIOS and have to disable it in Windows device manager (High Precision Event Timer). Also I use "bcdedit /set useplatformclock false" just in case, but there shouldn't be big difference compared to default ("bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock").



x7007 said:


> 4.Disable MSI for USB Mouse/Keyboard /*Big difference*


 MSI disabled works better if you use standard (Windows) USB drivers, however if you use AMD/Intel USB drivers it might work better with MSI enabled.

For AMD Ryzen platform:

RAM 3200 Mhz with CR1 + disabled GDM gives a bit better response than 3400-3466 mhz with enabled GDM (all other timings & subtimings are the same).

In AMD CBS menu there is an option "Mode0". I couldn't find what exactly it does, but forcing it "Enabled" gives noticeably better response than leaving on "Auto".


----------



## BUFUMAN

Not all RAM Kits are working with GDM off!!

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

As a matter of course, you have to use settings according to your hardware in the first place. I just shared what works on my system, and it doesn't even guarantee that it will give you the same result.


----------



## Dollar

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> As a matter of course, you have to use settings according to your hardware in the first place. I just shared what works on my system, and it doesn't even guarantee that it will give you the same result.



That's interesting, does 2T feel just as bad as GDM on?


----------



## x7007

I dunno for me it boots with 1t but I have 4 sticks and the recommended value is gdm on. I don't know how stable it is. I never had bsod with 1t. but I also don't know if weird things happening


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Dollar said:


> That's interesting, does 2T feel just as bad as GDM on?


 GDM enabled should still be better than 2T, but I have never tried to force 2T tbh.  There is no reason to do it. On Ryzen platform you either use GDM off with 1T or GDM on (enabled GDM will ignore command rate setting). As for GDM, I wouldn't say it's THAT bad, but I'd rather prefer lower frequency with GDM off and forced 1T over higher frequency with GDM on.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Old post from nvidia forum:


> Open up NVIDIA Inspector and show unknown settings (gears icon on top right).
> Apply these settings ON A GAME PROFILE. ->DON'T<- APPLY THESE SETTINGS GLOBALLY.
> These settings are optimized for the latest drivers and can deliver significant improvements in Source Engine and Goldsrc games.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 2 - Sync and Refresh
> Frame Rate Limiter - Off
> Frame Rate Limiter Mode - 0x00000010 PS_FRAMERATE_LIMITER_2_CONTROL_ALLOW_ALL_MAXWELL
> Maximum pre-rendered frames - 1
> 
> 5 - Common
> Power management mode - 0x00000003 PREFERRED_PSTATE_PREFER_CONSISTENT_PERFORMANCE
> Threaded optimization - On
> 
> Other
> Frame Rate Monitor - 0x4A5A3219 PS_FRAMERATE_LIMITER_GPS_CTRL_OPTIMAL_SETTING
> Frame Rate Monitor Control - 0x00000010 PS_FRAMERATE_MONITOR_CTRL_FRL_OFFSET_SHIFT
> Maximum frames allowed - 0x00000001
> Memory Allocation Policy - 0x00000002 WKS_MEMORY_ALLOCATION_POLICY_AGGRESSIVE_PRE_ALLOCATION
> Unified back/depth buffer - 0x00000001 OGL_SINGLE_BACKDEPTH_BUFFER_ENABLE
> Virtual Reality pre-rendered frames - 0x00000001
> 
> 8 - Extra
> ASYNC10_ENABLE - 0x37605835 APP - Enable dual core optimizations unless the application requested to disable them
> ASYNC10_NVAPI_MODE - 0x00000003 ALLOW_ALL - Allow all optimizations
> ASYNC10_OOO_QUERY_LIMIT - 0x00010000 (Battlefield 3)
> ASYNC9_ENABLE - 0x37605835 App - Enable AsyncDevice except in configs that do not work (some SLI, Optimus) or if the application requested to disable them
> CULL_BEFORE_FETCH - 0x00000006 Dynamic
> OGL_APP_CLAW - 0x00000001 Enabled - Enable the Workstation Performance Code, CLAW
> OGL_APP_CLAW_OPTIMIZE - 0x00000001 Enabled - Enable the optimizing compile in CLAW
> OGL_APP_CLAW_THREADS - 0x00000001 Enabled - CLAW threading
> OGL_APP_CONSTANT_OPTIMIZE - 0x00000001 Enabled - Optimize based on constant values
> OGL_APP_DIRECT_PUSHBUFFER - 0x00000001 Enabled - Use direct pushbuffer, not cached pushbuffer
> OGL_APP_LAZY_VBUM_VBOS - 0x00000001 Enabled - Enable the Lazy VBUM optimization for VBOs
> OGL_OPTIMIZED_IMMEDIATE_MODE - 0x00000001 Enabled - Fast immediate mode path enable
> OGL_APP_VIDMEM_PUSHBUFFER - 0x00000001 Enabled - This app benefits greatly from vidmem pushbuffers
> OGL_APP_YIELD_AFTER_SWAP - 0x00000001 Enabled - Call GL_YIELD in postSwapBuffers()
> OGL_SYSTEM_TEXTURE_PROMOTION - 0x00000001 Enable - Textures being promoted from Sysmem to Vidmem
> OGL_THREAD_CONTROL_2 - 0x0FC00008 (Unigine: Heaven 4.0 demo, Unigine: Tropics demo, Unigine Engine, Unigine: Sanctuary demo, Unigine: Valley demo, Unigine: Heaven demo)
> OGL_THREAD_OPTIMIZATION - 0x0000001F ENABLE_ALL - Enable all threading optimizations
> OGL_THREAD_OPTIMIZATION_GEFORCE - 0x0000001F Enable all threading optimizations
> OGL_VID_HEAP_REUSE_RATIO - 0x00000064 Default - Control the amount of freed video memory the allocator reserves for reuse by future allocations. By default the allocator reserves up to 10% of the total VRAM. The units are in 1/1000ths of total heap. So 100 means 10%
> PS_ALPHABETA - 0x00000002 Dynamic_VBIB - The driver adjusts a vb/ib ID unique Alpha fraction via AlphaBeta clocks
> PS_ALPHABETA_FRACTION - 0x000000FF Max
> SHADERMAXREGALLOWED - 0x00000400 Max - Specifies max register allowed when compiling/optimizing a shader
> STAGING_CACHE_SIZE - 0x01000001 Max
> SYSTEMCACHEDCOPYBEHAVIOR - 0x00000002 ALLOW_FOR_TEXTURES_WITH_SUBRESOURCES - Allow for textures with mips


 CS:GO feels smoother now.  I haven't tested "8 - Extra" part yet though.


----------



## x7007

3 Things I saw improvement with mouse

Legacy USB support - disabled

ProcODT - 68.8

DisableDynamicTick - Yes is BAD, causing Mouse Acceleration, not speed or faster. someone on the internet, me and my friend.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/disabledynamictick-wierd-mouse-movement.3572616/


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> ProcODT - 68.8


 You can't just set it to whatever you want.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/7.html

Do you use Ryzen DRAM Calculator?


----------



## x7007

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> You can't just set it to whatever you want.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/7.html
> 
> Do you use Ryzen DRAM Calculator?


It says recommend there 53.3 but it causes me weird issues. so I give it more. 

Also me and my friend and someone else on the internet. I've found out that DisableDynamicTick is cra&&*. it causing Mouse Acceleration, it seems faster but it is Acceleration, not faster.

It's not just him, it's me and also my friend, and also it's a new thread, not ages ago.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/disabledynamictick-wierd-mouse-movement.3572616/


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> It says recommend there 53.3 but it causes me weird issues. so I give it more.


 I mean it depends on your system configuration (what memory you have, how many modules, frequency, etc). 53.3 might be wrong value on your system, but proper value on somebody's else system and changing it will result in BSOD or even inability to boot.



x7007 said:


> I've found out that DisableDynamicTick is cra&&*. it causing Mouse Acceleration, it seems faster but it is Acceleration, not faster.


 Will test it.



x7007 said:


> Legacy USB support - disabled


 Enabled works better on my board (Strix X370-F).


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> I've found out that DisableDynamicTick is cra&&*. it causing Mouse Acceleration, it seems faster but it is Acceleration, not faster.


 I've tested it enabled/disabled and didn't notice any acceleration, I think it's because you have HPET disabled in BIOS.


----------



## zendoj

Is buying one UPS to regulate the entry delay? its works? (sorry my bad english)


----------



## x7007

Someone posted about MSI mode. it seems also that R0ach was right

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/i...latency-decreasing.406260/page-5#post-5782416
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mPZhpD_vB5nfTm-FKy13CVuEVDxlt12B559cboKLYo4/edit

you get increased FrameTime (ms) with it enabled.


----------



## Timecard

x7007 said:


> it seems also that R0ach was right


TAKE IT BACK! 

Also those results he tests without MSI mode (one benchmark with unknown settings?) and then does like 10 other configurations/tests with MSI on? Also some/many of his tests show that MSI mode on was better than MSI mode off in certain circumstances.


----------



## Nawafwabs

zendoj said:


> Is buying one UPS to regulate the entry delay? its works? (sorry my bad english)


Dont buy it we tried it and not fix it fully 

Buy emi meter and test your house if you want to know there is problem or not


----------



## x7007

Did anyone test this? you need to restart the computer after






For anyone wants the registries 

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\PolicyManager\default\ApplicationManagement\AllowGameDVR
value=0



HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore and set the GameDVR_Enabled
Enabled=0


I mean GameDVR runs all the time even it's disabled? it has migration alike on the DWM.

Anyway, I did that, the 2nd was 0 for me already.


I'll check how it affects on the mouse movement.


----------



## r0ach

So the other day I theorized that Intel's (proprietary?) BIOS might be better than stuff like 3rd party AMI, etc, BIOS's in the 'overclocker' boards like ASUS, Gigabyte, etc and bought an Intel DH87RL to test that theory out. Theory turns out to be wrong. Tested both Win 8.1 and Windows 7 (Z87 makes USB2 ports act in passthrough mode to the USB3 controller in Win 8.1 and Win 7 doesn't). Mouse movement is inferior to the Asus Z77. 

Even the DPC latency is kinda weird, only getting down to 13 with HPET off, while the Gigabytes and Asus boards do like 2. It's not the worst motherboard I've ever used for mouse movement, it's just not better than the Asus and Gigabyte Z77's. From memory, I think the Intel Z87 was better than the MSI Z87, but still, I'm not gonna use it over an Asus or Gigabyte Z77 board. Boards that don't allow you to disable both USB3 and HPET tend to suck in general (which means everything after Z77).

If all you care about is mouse movement, I'd buy something like a P8Z77 Pro with your Trump check before they disappear from the earth. It's not really that simple, though. There's tons of esoteric BIOS settings in the ASUS BIOS that have to be set exactly right or everything will feel off. Even things like leaving CPU voltage on auto vs manually setting it. Can't run turbo mode or any junk like that either. And attempting to overclock automatically enables turbo mode features so you have to run them stock at the non-turbo frequency.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> Did anyone test this?


 Shouldn't be needed for Win 10 v1809 and higher.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

r0ach said:


> It's not really that simple, though. There's tons of esoteric BIOS settings in the ASUS BIOS


 Most of them are hidden though. But you could see them in BIOS editor:


Spoiler














Theoretically you could edit your BIOS ROM and set everything you want how you want, but it will take _some time_ and there is always a risk to brick your board,


----------



## x7007

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> Most of them are hidden though. But you could see them in BIOS editor:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theoretically you could edit your BIOS ROM and set everything you want how you want, but it will take _some time_ and there is always a risk to brick your board,


hmmmm interesting and scary


----------



## r0ach

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> Theoretically you could edit your BIOS ROM and set everything you want how you want, but it will take _some time_ and there is always a risk to brick your board,


What program is that? An ASUS proprietary BIOS editor or a generic AMI one or what? As for editing BIOS's, the Asus Z77 boards generally have most the settings one would want. The main exceptions possibly being things like PCI latency timer, getting rid of random stuff like TPM support, etc. For some reason they dropped the PCI latency timer setting on all but the most ancient of boards. Some boards default to 32 and some 64, and I haven't been able to test the difference since like I said, only really old boards seem to expose the option at all.

I do have a Steambox/Alienware Alpha sitting around that I'd like to try BIOS editing on, though. It has an AMI BIOS I think and exposes virtually no useful settings. Thing even runs at PCIE 2.0 instead of PCIE 3.0 for no reason when it's 3.0 capable. That and no Z87 boards seem to let you disable USB3, so I wonder if that part is even possible.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

r0ach said:


> generic AMI one


 Yeah, this one (AMIBCP).


----------



## x7007

Btw, important. I noticed for me AMD 1950x, when Disabling/Enabling HPET I need to do a full shutdown, or the timer is not really set to Use/Disable HPET with only a Bios Save/Restart.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

r0ach said:


> no Z87 boards seem to let you disable USB3, so I wonder if that part is even possible.


 Should be possible but apparently depends on certain board and its ROM.

I have an option (hidden by default) to disable XHCI controller in my BIOS, but what is more interesting: also an option to enable EHCI controller.


Spoiler














 Maybe I will try to enable it and flash mod bios later.


----------



## r0ach

There's my current experience for 2020 hardware:



r0ach said:


> Did I mention to you that I tried a Turing card and it seemed to be worse for cursor movement than Pascal probably due to the built-in Nvidia VirtualLink USB3 garbage? 5700 XT I think adopted the same VirtualLink USB3 controller junk into the card too. The smart thing to do sounds like it would be buying a Pascal Founder's Edition card without it, but then you have the issue that Nvidia has enormously feature creep bloated drivers now with higher latency than AMD if you connect any freesync or Gsync 'gaming' monitor to it.
> 
> I've personally tried 3-4 different 144-240hz panels with a 1070 Founder Edition and didn't like the mouse movement on any of them; it was always off. But mouse movement was good with non-freesync/gsync panels connected to the card. So I guess if you want to use a 144hz+ panel, might be best to stay with AMD, while non-freesync/gsync panels are probably better on Nvidia (441.66 driver specifically - newest one I tried really sucks for latency compared to it)


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Ok, so I experimented with BIOS mod on my X370 board and tested it for few days: I think it was worth it, mouse response improved.

Hidden options that I disabled: C6 Mode, Enable Hybernation, ACPI Sleep State, Chipset Power Saving Features, SB Clock Spread Spectrum, USB Phy Power Down, SB C1E Support, *XHCI Gen2*, Integrated Graphics, Remote Display Feature, Unpopulated Links.
Also: PCIe Speed Power Policy -> Performance (instead of Auto).

Disabling "XHCI Gen2" alone probably made the same difference as all other options combined.

Couldn't disable HPET though. F*ck you, ASUS. I know HPET option is available on X370 Gigabyte boards out-of-the-box as well as many other settings, but on my board they're hidden by default.


----------



## r0ach

Honestly, I don't think you will like any new board in the end no matter what you do to it. I've tried several of them recently and anything post-z77 sucks to me because they don't let you use the native USB 2.0 controller. That and the ability to disable HPET + USB3 entirely are also big. 

It's not expensive to build one. I just bought an ASUS P8Z77-M MATX board to test out for like $80. Can find a matched set of DH0-CH9 DDR3 Samsung ram on Ebay for $20. Then can buy a 3570k for $40 = $140 total. Most the high performance 2400mhz DDR3 kits you find will be single rank in 4Gx2 so you would need to get 8Gx2 if buying 2400mhz DDR3. The Samsung branded DH0-CH9 is dual rank in 4gx2, though and will do up to 2133mhz reliably, but I use 1333mhz 7-7-7-20. Some can also do 6-7-6-18 or 6-7-7-18.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

You're right, but it's impossible to stick to old hardware forever. Personally I play CS:GO. For example, 5-6 years ago I used to get 250+ fps in CS:GO with i7-4770 and DDR3 1600 hz *while streaming*. Now I barely get 180+ on this PC (same drivers, same settings, etc) even without OBS. 2.5-3 years ago I've switched to DDR4 platform (Ryzen 2xxx) which gave me significant boost: despite Ryzen 2xxx CPUs have similar to Haswell singlecore performance, I have 250+ fps again. Upgrade to Ryzen 3xxx will improve my fps in CS:GO even more since Zen 2 has a lot better single core performance, also due to improved memory controller I will be able to push my RAM to something like 3600 CL14 (I have Samsung B-die but with Zen+ my memory OC is limited to 3466 atm).

I actually tried to run CS:GO at work where I have 3470 non-K and 16 gb RAM 1600 hz (9-9-9-24 timings) and got 170+ fps or so. Even if 3570k @ 5Ghz would give me 250+, with current tendencies it probably won't last more than 2-3 years before performance will be dropped again (nice updates, thanks Valve).

Tbh all this ***** pisses me off.  Things were supposed to get better with new hardware, but it seems it's only getting worse and worse.


----------



## Timecard

Makes you wonder how many PCs r0ach has.... also r0ach why not use PCI-E USB 2.0 controller and call it a day?


----------



## zendoj

Guys, I already tried everything, I tried all kinds of options, there are days that I feel almost nothing about input lag, and there are days, that with the same configuration, I feel a lot of input lag, I have tried everything.

I feel a lot of input lag in CS: GO and LOL, I remember that once, in LOL I limited the fps to 60, and the input lag was gone, I could kiting perfectly, but the next day, I already felt horrible input lag with limited fps.


----------



## skupples

x7007 said:


> Someone posted about MSI mode. it seems also that R0ach was right
> 
> https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/i...latency-decreasing.406260/page-5#post-5782416
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mPZhpD_vB5nfTm-FKy13CVuEVDxlt12B559cboKLYo4/edit
> 
> you get increased FrameTime (ms) with it enabled.


"Discussion in 'Game Tweaks and Modifications' started by turu1337, Mar 5, 2016."

this has been a thing since the change happened. the knowledge of it has just died as people get older and move on from dealing with forums n stuff.

you've gotta got into dedicated windows forums to find any sorta quality pinned knowledge these days.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

What knowledge? For years people tend to think that enabling MSI mode for as many devices as possible is better. r0ach says that disabling MSI mode for USB controllers is better. Maybe you didn't notice this "small" detail, but these 2 opinions are completely opposite.

Btw https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/w...ge-signaled-based-interrupts-msi-tool.378044/


> mbk1969, May 7, 2013


----------



## r0ach

Well, small correction there. USB 3.0 in both line based and MSI mode are both bad to me and worse than USB 2.0. MSI mode on = more deadzone and less responsive than USB 2.0. MSI mode off = deadzone is gone but cursor becomes more outta control than regular USB 2.0. Everything about USB 3.0 really just feels disgusting to me.


----------



## BUFUMAN

I dont feel any difference, and i would!
With or without MSI.

But what i see i what i get. LOW ISR and DPC count with MSI Mode on all Parts and the Nvidia GPU.

I realy don't know which mouse you guys are using. Go for a good mouse and buy a good mousepad which works with your mouse.
Don't use insane High DPI.
Don't use mouse pointer acceleration.

If the mouse feel bad INGAME check you fps if you have huge drops - thats not the mouse. Clearly.


Gesendet von meinem LYA-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

I don't see any difference in ISR and DPC with MSI on/off, but mouse feels more responsive with MSI off for XHCI.

I use Zowie EC2b, mousepad is Kingston HyperX S Pro (plain black). 400 dpi, pointer acceleration is obviously disabled, though it doesn't really matter since CS:GO have rawinput anyway. FPS is usually 250+ in 5on5 match and 200+ on 20 players deathmatch server but I rarely play DM.


----------



## r0ach

BUFUMAN said:


> I realy don't know which mouse you guys are using


Only sensors I really like are Logitech's AM010 mice, Logitech's 3366 in the G403, and Steelseries' 3360 in the Sensei 310 (too wide rear on mouse to actually use, though). Things like the XM1 3389 sensor are worse than those options to me, but still usable. Just the buttons on the XM1 are way too loud making a loud 'thunk' sound on rebound for me to use.

I haven't really seen a single 3389 mouse that felt better than those options. The 3389 in the Sensei Ten for example just felt like a huge downgrade to Steelseries' previous 3360 implementation. So I'm not sure if it's even possible to make a good 3389 mouse. As for mice like the Model O's 3360, it doesn't seem good at all to me compared to Logitech and Steelseries firmware.

The only real outlier sensor I've liked is the 3327, which is a derivative of the AM010. It's not in many mice. Corsair made a mouse with it but the shape is bad. I think if Logitech made a mouse with the 3327, it would probably be the #1 most liked gaming sensor there is because their sensor implementation would be 100x better than Corsair. Both AM010 and 3327 have faster, more twitchier response than any other sensor, and the 3327 increases the sensor resolution some where the AM010 was lacking so a proper implementation would probably be all the strengths of the AM010 + 3366 with none of the weaknesses.


----------



## sharkzer

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> Should be possible but apparently depends on certain board and its ROM.
> 
> I have an option (hidden by default) to disable XHCI controller in my BIOS, but what is more interesting: also an option to enable EHCI controller.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I will try to enable it and flash mod bios later.


Where can i get this bios editor? Could not find it anywhere


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

sharkzer said:


> Where can i get this bios editor? Could not find it anywhere


 Instructions + links to download: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/asus-prime-x370-pro-am4.1156996/#7.1
Direct link to AMIBCP 5.02.0023: http://www.mediafire.com/file/p0k6244s7eccoom/AMIBCP_v5.02.0023.rar


----------



## r0ach

I haven't tried it yet, but some people said some BIOS's are 'locked' and won't accept changes for some reason. Things like Dells were one of them mentioned. So you can't change a Steambox from gay to k00l.


----------



## zendoj

Guys, will this help me fix my problem?

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-LR604-Conditioner-Outlet/dp/B00006HZ6D/


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

zendoj said:


> Guys, will this help me fix my problem?


 Probably not.


----------



## x7007

Does anyone know this registry thing??


QUOTE

**One more here which I don't use -IdleDetectionCycles , another power-saving feature. AlwaysOn will override the auto-detection & be enabled all the time.


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile]
"AlwaysOn"=dword:00000001
"NoLazyMode"=dword:00000001


Mouse Cursor Update

This will force your mouse cursor to refresh faster & make it slightly smoother

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Input\Settings\ControllerProcessor\CursorSpeed]
"CursorSensitivity"=dword:00002710
"CursorUpdateInterval"=dword:00000001
"IRRemoteNavigationDelta"=dword:00000001



[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Input\Settings\ControllerProcessor\CursorMagnetism]
"AttractionRectInsetInDIPS"=dword:00000005
"DistanceThresholdInDIPS"=dword:00000028
"MagnetismDelayInMilliseconds"=dword:00000032
"MagnetismUpdateIntervalInMilliseconds"=dword:00000010
"VelocityInDIPSPerSecond"=dword:00000168

Disable Lazy Mode
Lazy Mode is a software flag that allows the system to skip some hardware events whenever CPU usage is low.
Press Win + R keys in order to open the Run box.
Open regedit and press OK.
Reach HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile
Create new 32-bit dword NoLazyMode with value 1
Reboot the system

Create Latency Sensitive REG_SZ in Games Task.
This tweak tells the system that games should be considered Latency Sensitive, thus improving I/O responsiveness.
Press Win + R in order to open the Run box.
Open regedit and press OK.
Reach HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games
Create new string value Latency Sensitive with value True
Reboot the system.


https://www.pdelite.org/topic/2328-tips-how-to-improve-hit-register-in-all-games-2020-by-zukofire/
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/TheUsefulWindowsGroup/discussions/0/1643170903505065772/


----------



## Timecard

I looked at them a while ago and didn't find any 'official' documentation or references to them (nolazymode,alwayson). That and none of the guides that reference them have references for it.


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> I looked at them a while ago and didn't find any 'official' documentation or references to them (nolazymode,alwayson). That and none of the guides that reference them have references for it.



Some people tested them for Pro Audio

https://sites.google.com/view/vk1hw/radios/anan-100d/win10

For now, it feels like the mouse and the Priority changed something even without restarting. it's easy to test anyway. why shouldn't anyone try?


----------



## Timecard

Both nolazymode and alwayson weren't in that link.


----------



## sharkzer

Would it be worth it to buy ryzen 4000? or buy an old mobo with good usb 2.0 support and hpet possible to turn off?


----------



## r0ach

sharkzer said:


> Would it be worth it to buy ryzen 4000? or buy an old mobo with good usb 2.0 support and hpet possible to turn off?


I wouldn't get a Ryzen just because you're forced to use Windows 10 and it's nothing more than a more bloated version of Windows 8.1 with worse mouse movement. The Z77 experiment isn't a very expensive venture. $99 for a motherboard on ebay, $20 for two sticks of DH0-CH9 Samsung ram, and $40 for a 3570k. Worst case scenario you could build one new 7-9000 series intel and one Z77 box and compare them. 

I would just avoid using ANY BIOS release that address Spectre or Meltdown. BIOS's I've tried on SEVERAL different motherboards all had mouse movement go to crap when I used them. This will eliminate a large amount of motherboards that you can use. Like...you basically have to buy a used board and hope it hasn't been flashed with a newer, non-reversable firmware. No reason to care about security on a 'gaming' box anyway.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Did AMD say they're dropping Windows 7 support for Ryzen 4000? Because right now you can use 8.1 without any problems. Good thing is Ryzen doesn't have Meltdown vulnerability, only Spectre.

With tools like UEFI BIOS Updater (UBU) it's possible to replace CPU microcode with whatever you prefer (for example, old microcode without Meltdown/Spectre patches), so non-reversable firmware shouldn't be a problem, although I think you could reverse to old BIOS by using AMI Flasher utility.


----------



## Layed

Hello guys, i have one problem. I hope someone experienced this before and know how to fix it, because I'm suffering from this since 2013.
Too sum up: Super bad hiterg, 35% bullets going nowhere. Actually did a lot of windows tweaks, nothing works. Deagle is unplayable, literally impossible to hit someone, awp no scope too. Once a time i reinstalled os and had better hitreg. I could finally feel taps ant headshots, but sadly i had to reinstall my os because of different problems. after os reinstall csgo became **** again. Also people from popular "cs runs normal only first time" thread had the same problem. If someone know how to fix this i can pay a little bit for it. Waiting for response.
Video of hitreg:


----------



## r0ach

I've never experienced any issue like that so I can't help you. Assuming it's not just plain old network packet loss, do you run anything like hyperthreading turned on and HPET off? Supposedly the reason they force enable HPET in some boards is to facilitate the sync of those extra HT threads. I always turn things like hyperthreading off, so it's not something that would affect me.


----------



## vf-

r0ach said:


> I've never experienced any issue like that so I can't help you. Assuming it's not just plain old network packet loss, do you run anything like hyperthreading turned on and HPET off? Supposedly the reason they force enable HPET in some boards is to facilitate the sync of those extra HT threads. *I always turn things like hyperthreading off*, so it's not something that would affect me.


Then why buy an i7/i9 if you turn it off...


----------



## x7007

Any recommendations for USB Splitter? I need one for connecting HDFURY DR.HDMI4K and the mouse/keyboard it seems like some USB ports work better. sometimes I when I turn the TV I don't get a signal and I need to unplug replug the USB DR.HDMI4K and then I get a signal. I can't detect what causing it to expect only some weird thing in the USB. should I need to give more voltage to something on the Motherboard maybe? I have many devices connecting to USB. DR.HDMI4K, Mouse, Keyboard, SXFI AMP Soundcard Type-C. it looks like it doesn't have enough voltage to powered on randomly. because I disabled the USB power suspended. Would I need Active/Powered USB Splitter for all those?


----------



## x7007

Could it be we need more CPU voltage or SB Voltage to fix the mouse input lag? It's like the cpu doesn't have enough Voltage so it changes the speed, limiting it. I upper the voltage a bit more and to conclude that I saw someone else with almost same issue, but he didn't find solution, but he did say he had higher input when using LLC.

https://forums.intel.com/s/question...ural-mouse-behavior-due-to-cpu?language=en_US


Also this

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...e my SOC voltage more if i am right.
[/quote]


----------



## Timecard

Intel thread was written by Ayman who wrote the nvidia thread input lag is killing me.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...326/mouseinput-lag-is-killing-me/?topicPage=1

JustNag didn't fix his problem, he's in my discord still working with us to solve the problem. Most changes are only temporary, always comes back.


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Intel thread was written by Ayman who wrote the Nvidia thread input lag is killing me.
> 
> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...326/mouseinput-lag-is-killing-me/?topicPage=1
> 
> JustNag didn't fix his problem, he's in my discord still working with us to solve the problem. Most changes are only temporary, always come back.


I am still testing, usually, when the issue repeated itself it would be after windows restart and shut down. for now a restart, games, youtube, or any of such didn't change the mouse after changing the voltages. We'll see how it goes 2-3 days, if it stays the same then it is one of the solutions, just think about it, no one ever goes too much or correct for everything, you only go for stress tests. what if the stress test isn't the whole picture?

CPU Dynamic +1.2000 voltage Offset
CPU SOC Dynamic +0.650 voltage offset
1.05 Voltage 1.060
1.05 SOC 1.067

LLC Both are Turbo, I wonder how the mouse will be when it's Normal 

For now, I am using the 
English Philippines 
no LGS install and totally cleared/removed
HPET Enabled in bios 
UseplatformTick Yes

And I messed with these registries 

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Input\Settings\ControllerProcessor\CursorSpeed]
"CursorSensitivity"=dword:00000064
"CursorUpdateInterval"=dword:00000001
"IRRemoteNavigationDelta"=dword:00000001


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile]
"NetworkThrottlingIndex"=dword:0000000a
"SystemResponsiveness"=dword:00000014
"AlwaysOn"=dword:00000001
"NoLazyMode"=dword:00000001


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Psched]
"NonBestEffortLimit"=dword:00000000
"TimerResolution"=dword:00000001


----------



## r0ach

Kind of off-topic, but besides bad motherboards, I think my other #1 annoyance in life is LCD pulse width modulation. I once looked at a Nintendo 2ds and saw something resembling PWM that's not actually PWM. Does anyone know what the hell these screens are doing? PWM is typically perfectly aligned with the screen and these are diagnol:


----------



## x7007

It seems like the Voltage changes I made helped A LOT. today I came back to the computer started playing Star Wars BattleFront II DX12 in 3D using Reshade with HDR and the mouse is just fast and smooth like I am used to. Compared to before it happened in DESKTOP not just games. so the VOLTAGE helps a lot, that was strictly the last thing I made and it is consisted of many reboots.

I also played Heroes Of the Storm yesterday for 8 hours straight and there was no difference in the mouse at any time.


The big question is how much Voltage do we need? How do we test it for Input lag because it doesn't show us in the Stress Tests


----------



## Layed

r0ach said:


> I've never experienced any issue like that so I can't help you. Assuming it's not just plain old network packet loss, do you run anything like hyperthreading turned on and HPET off? Supposedly the reason they force enable HPET in some boards is to facilitate the sync of those extra HT threads. I always turn things like hyperthreading off, so it's not something that would affect me.


Hyper threading - OFF
HPET OFF IN BIOS ON IN WINDOWS. tested them a lot but cant feel big changes. with hpet off in bios and windows hitreg feels worse


----------



## x7007

I am also trying to test LLC Disabled/Normal instead of the Medium I used. to see if it has any effect. r0ach says it has affected and also the people on the Nvidia forums, can't find one at the moment. is it truly should be disabled or Medium?

Another thing to remember, if you have only one mouse, the mouse feet sometimes can screw things. sometimes need to push them or move them with the fingernail, the glue from the heat or other things affects it.

also, I think bad hit reg has a lot to do with the voltage. because it's pretty much related to how the cpu works overall. and if it affects the GPU and USB it affects everything else.

This is what I wrote in the discord to my tech friends.



ow listen why I think voltage is to do with mouse input lag. 

it had being going for awhile before but this one just happen now. 
most weird ass thing happen. I use my old 3770 computer for emulator android for Raid game. I didn't understand why would the game in the emulator would crash all the time after like 10 hrs or randomly. Ive found that after disabling Asus multicore enhancement it fixed that. it didn't crashed for whole 2 days or something. now suddenly the monitor turned off and the computer freezes. mouse didn't even get power for the sensor because its the Microsoft old mouse so if has red lightning underneath.

so i turned it off and on and it didn't turned on. I needed to switch power turn off on. it turned on and turned off again while it load windows.

voltage was auto all was auto core no overclock. c1e state and such all enabled turbo and eist.

cpu voltage was 1.100. after giving it extra 0.100 it works fine now no crash or anything. also gave a bit for vsaa and pch voltage.

now what happened usually when I turn computer off on the mouse would stutter to that, unplugging replug in it would work fine.


also before shutdown the wireless didn't want to connect it just couldn't connect and had 1 bar of reception. weird **** happens even without bsod
to get weird ass **** doesn't mean u need to see bsod. that's the whole point


also not enough voltage causing the Hdmi gpu not to work or detect. means voltage needs to be steady all the time or the gpu won't work properly means mouse would have input lag. all makes sense
randomly I save the bios settings changing only cpu voltage and llc calibration and also the global c state and cool and quiet but just by saving it caused not booting with 94 which means display not detected
also I think it caused me the stuttering the llc I am almost 100% sure
voltage is the most terrible thing exist :tired_face:
can screw every single thing and people will never even think about ****. EVEN WITHOUT BSOD AT ALL I had issues voltage related! it doesn't have to be Heat, stability or bios setting!





It all started having weird issue on my Desktop I7 3770K which always crashed using BlueStacks emulator for RAID game. the last thing break the nail was the computer lost display and I needed to switch psu off/on to get it back on and then it won't load windows. The computer is not overclocked since I used it as emulator only. All was default expect C1E and all the power savings. IT STILL CRASHED without any of them ON. after changing Cpu voltage from AUTO to offset +1.100 it doesn't crash anymore. Also like I said, I had weird mouse movement or USB not working at all randomly when I turned off computer and turned on. WEIRD ISSUES because of voltage. NEVER HAD BSOD since I just got the voltage right, but not ENOUGH



*Also Something to do with Windows Spotlight, I think that's what could cause the weird "input lag" when using the English United States.

I've found something interesting.

When using any other language than ENGLISH United States BING WON'T SHOW THE "What you Like"

As soon I changed from say English Philippines and removing C:\Users\X7007\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.Windows.ContentDeliveryManager_cw5n1h2txyewy\Setting s\Settings.Dat file, as soon I change from Spotlight to Picture and back to spotlight and Lock the screen the picture changed and the What you like came back.

So it's something with the Languages. if you use other languages it could maybe not support something from the Bing servers.*

Also for some reason I fixed the issue I had with weird BLCK which was 96 or 98 and now it's steady 99.9-100mhz. I think it's the LLC doing. because I tried Global C State, Cool&Quiet and all other saving things.


----------



## RamenRider

CrucialNUG said:


> Cool video but these greenwaves detectors are far from definitive proof of anything. Only people that have experienced this problem first hand will believe it. The proper measurement test will be a spectrum analyzer or an oscilloscope. We would then need to track the source of interference or fix the return path (grounding) for it. This is not an easy task. The second video you link to is not very informative at all, the interference that is messing with our PCs is likely not from a noisy circuit or any basic appliances and wiring in your home.


That maybe but you have to admit, not everyone has the same problems on an individual basis. Either way what Nawafwabs posted is really really important. I've always known us input lag chasers are doing something special and this path will someday lead us to find the secrets of the universe. What Nawa posted affects more than just electronic devices but human brains as well. This may be one of the leading causes of certain cancers and autism as we know it. 



Nawafwabs said:


> Look at this video maybe help you
> 
> https://youtu.be/kf2CLsr-uMs


So which light bulbs should I be using. 



Timecard said:


> Here's some new observations that have evidence to boot, if you missed it in the other section, see links below. Applies to all versions of windows at least from win7 to win10 1909, and both realtek and intel nics. Hint NetworkThrottleIndex ON significantly reduces network (NDIS) processing latency then a few other changes/observations which gave it added reduction of dpc latency, maybe people will stop disabling it unless they can prove better performance otherwise with other settings.
> 
> I'd also suggest setting NetworkThrottleIndex to 15 or 20 to increase throughput a little more than 10 (default value) which limits you to roughly ~15MB/s.
> 
> Network Packet Scheduler Timer Resolution (different than system resolution)
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...-stack-packet-scheduler-timer-resolution.html
> 
> Reducing ISR DPC Processing Times for Network Adapters
> https://www.overclock.net/forum/180...sr-dpc-processing-times-network-adapters.html
> 
> To note NetworkThrottleIndex isn't controlled by MMCSS, and you will still see the benefits for those paranoid about MMCSS who disable it. Melody mentioned this and I confirmed last weekend, ndis dpc measurments were the same when NetworkThrottleIndex was set/enabled and MMCSS driver disabled/not loaded in the kernel.
> 
> Here's my script used to simplify measuring dpc/isr, you need xperf from the performance analyzer suite included in Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit (ADK).
> https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCSetup/blob/master/Scripts/xperfdpcisr.ps1


I think this can be a real game changer. However I do not understand how to do any of it, but I just did: 

ipconfig /release

ipconfig /renew

ipconfig /flushdns

and it improved my hit registration by 50% Like I was able to hit shots I would not have before. I always knew I had hit registration errors, but I just blamed it on input lag and game engine accuracy. Getting closer. This is a massive difference for sure.


----------



## Timecard

Sooo did you do my changes or did you only renew your DHCP lease and flush your local dns cache?


----------



## RamenRider

Timecard said:


> Sooo did you do my changes or did you only renew your DHCP lease and flush your local dns cache?


That was just me doing those ipconfig commands. But I am trying your stuff right now. 

>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Win dows\Psched]
>"TimerResolution"=dword:00000001

My Network Timer Resolution was already at 1. So I didn't change anything. And for your other thread "Reducing ISR DPC Processing Times" I cannot currently use RSS functions on my FX build but I will try it out on my new 3900x build later on.

However I found this blog that shows how you can set RSS Queues above 2. 
http://n1kobg.blogspot.com/2018/04/increasing-rss-queues-in-windows-10.html

Other things I'm looking at:

* This network optimization guide. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=727946014

* This latency thread about RSS https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73030

* Another general OS tweaking guide. https://github.com/CHEF-KOCH/Gaming...ral)#operating-system-general-tweaking-advice

The ipconfig stuff I did was a pretty big change, I didn't know my hit reg problems were that bad. Although I still need to fix my OS problems.


----------



## Biks

Still strugling with huge mouse input lag, tryed many things I read here, still the same. In the past I got huge benefits from this thread but since new pc its being hard. Im a PC noob, many things done here I cant replicate...  

Why dont you guys, at least the ones better prepaired, start a service where we ship our pcs to you and you charge some money?


----------



## x7007

Does no one want to test the CPU Voltages, CPU SOC 1.05, 1.05 SOC and LLC Normal/Disabled For me it fixed the issues + The Bus speed

Also use Sfc /Scannow in CMD

I just give you the solution. that's the only thing new computer had which everyone started having with better and faster gpus/cpus, they need more voltages. I also fixed with only CPU Voltage the I7 3770K which started having issues. I mean the solution is right in front of you. whether you listen or not, I gave you what you should check if nothing else helped. 

For me, AMD 1950x CPU was Stress test perfect 100% no BSOD or anything EVER. but I had the input lag. as soon I changed the settings with Voltages, even before LLC which was still Turbo, I had perfect mouse movement. I just needed more voltages for each one of the ones I said above, nothing else.


It could also fix Network and Hit Reg issues. also Ipconfig /release /renew /flushdns doesn't really do anything for gaming. it is only when you change DNS Servers or different Router/ISP. nothing else it does really. you connect to gaming servers using IP's so the DNS Server doesn't even work when you do that.


----------



## Timecard

x7007 said:


> For me it fixed the issues


Probably not fixed, you've said this after 10 other changes. Update in a week  Not sure if you're following my current thread around electricity/interference issues but pretty sure you were part of the nvidia input lag thread and others. I assume you still have the exact same issue. Many things influence it but symptoms return 99% of the time.


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Probably not fixed, you've said this after 10 other changes. Update in a week  Not sure if you're following my current thread around electricity/interference issues but pretty sure you were part of the nvidia input lag thread and others. I assume you still have the exact same issue. Many things influence it but symptoms return 99% of the time.


for the moment it doesn't happen more than a week. 
so I m safe to say I am happy.. this is one way of things that change. we know cpu voltage might change after awhile so even if it worked fine at the start it won't after. also we already know Auto voltage is not always the best case scenario. also depends on how many USB devices or pcie devices that works on the cpu pcie lanes you will need to give it more voltage. sometimes auto just doesn't give enough.

as a tech guy I look for everything possible. the problem start when you try to conflict someone with their own experiences and yours. i am saying it is worth a try if you didn't. why wouldn't you try and assume it won't help? just asking opinion because I know how suck it is. I couldn't play at all for more than 3 years or so and now I was able to and I can tell when it works fine after 3 years of not.


yes I was in the Nvidia input lag. which didn't really help me. I also search and saw people with 2080ti and i7 9700 cpus which have input lag or stuttering. I also had annoying stuttering which was also fixed with the voltage upping. so one thing or another it fixed 2 things. it can't be coincidence.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Timecard said:


> Probably not fixed, you've said this after 10 other changes. Update in a week  Not sure if you're following my current thread around electricity/interference issues but pretty sure you were part of the nvidia input lag thread and others. I assume you still have the exact same issue. Many things influence it but symptoms return 99% of the time.


 Agreed.  I have the same problem at home as well.


----------



## Timecard

We've discussed similar changes in my thread regarding voltage to different components, it influences it as does anything electrical. If it relieves your symptoms temporarily then enjoy it


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> We've discussed similar changes in my thread regarding voltage to different components, it influences it as does anything electrical. If it relieves your symptoms temporarily then enjoy it


it's not temporary, it's already been a week. also the other computer I had issue Intel i7 3770k which voltage fixed it. upping voltage every year or so is not something new. we know auto voltage doesn't work right. I just share my fix, I hope someone else can test it but no one one wants. why would cpu voltage fix the issue if there is electrical emi or other interfere? for both computers


----------



## Timecard

Man if I could quote all the times you said "I just share my fix, I hope someone else can test it but no one one wants" for different things.... If you know voltage fixes your problem on another PC with the same issue why didn't you do that 1 year ago?


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Man if I could quote all the times you said "I just share my fix, I hope someone else can test it but no one one wants" for different things.... If you know voltage fixes your problem on another PC with the same issue why didn't you do that 1 year ago?


HI sorry if I didn't explain it properly. the only way I noticed this fix is because I read about llc and how dangerous it can be. and I read about stuttering that people with 2080ti and 9700 cpu have even when everything is 100% no bsod. also the one time I had the computer Intel i7 3770k with the bluestacks crashing the game every couple hours or disconnection using anydesk from my laptop and which suddenly freezes with monitor turned off and mouse didn't get power, I only changed Cpu voltage which fixed it and game didn't crash for a week also since I tested it. as soon I found out the cpu voltage is more than stress test stability no matter if you have bsod or not, you need to set it right. 

i know it sound weird. but tell me one person who said cpu voltage or soc, 1.05 or 1.05 soc voltages can fix issues like this.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

It seems you just didn't set voltage properly.

Even if your system passes all stress tests at certain voltage, there is an old "rule": add 2-3 more steps to this voltage for 24/7 stability.

LLC should be set according to your overclock.



x7007 said:


> but tell me one person who said cpu voltage or soc, 1.05 or 1.05 soc voltages can fix issues like this.


 1usmus ? He mentioned many times that wrong SoC voltage might cause stutters/freezes. Also some time ago I saw he suggested to raise SB voltage from default 1.05 to 1.12 to fix stutters/freezes.


----------



## x7007

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> It seems you just didn't set voltage properly.
> 
> Even if your system passes all stress tests at certain voltage, there is an old "rule": add 2-3 more steps to this voltage for 24/7 stability.
> 
> LLC should be set according to your overclock.
> 
> 1usmus ? He mentioned many times that wrong SoC voltage might cause stutters/freezes. Also some time ago I saw he suggested to raise SB voltage from default 1.05 to 1.12 to fix stutters/freezes.


The voltage was fine it was more than enough exactly the same I am using now between 1.344-1.380 just without LLC. LLC was worse because it enabled Spread Spectrum on the Bus Speed causing it to be 98 or 97.8 around it, now it is 99.9-100 steady.

So if it's not the CPU voltage it could be the 1.05 which like you say. I didn't know but I always thought. I will give it even a bit more voltage.

Some people said they kept it on AUTO and they discovered later it overvoltage it too much causing stuttering and freezes. like I said, VOLTAGES ARE WEIRD........


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

LLC shouldn't change Spread Spectrum option. At least on my board I can use any level of LLC with Spread Spectrum disabled (or enabled if you wish). On some boards (including mine) BCLK tend to be a bit unstable unless you set overclock mode to "Manual" instead of "Auto" or "Default" and after that you will be able to manually set BCLK frequency to 100.00. Keeping SoC voltage on "Auto" can result in overvoltage, that's true, better use recommend value from Ryzen DRAM Calculator (according to your memory OC).


----------



## x7007

I checked another thing, I think this might be for everyone.

There are cables for the power, LEDs, front USB cables that in some cases are grouped together. I think by splitting them you can fix the EMI issues inside the case. I am still testing it but the theory seems legit as USB cables behave like antennas.

Some people suggested that but usually they only did it for the BACK cables, not the inside FRONT cables.

I think the people who have mouse issues are usually the people who don't split these cables which must be a lot of people. I didn't know it affect that much. another point is when I did the same for my old I7 3770K and couldn't understand why it was working better as the problem was fixed even with Microsoft old 125hz mouse that had input lag.




The mouse became smooth and precise in instant

if people could test this theory.

*
*** If anyone did everything they can and they still have issues and did not try to split these cables. PLEASE DO SO, you might be surprised that it fixes your issues if you did EVERYTHING.*


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> The mouse became smooth and precise in instant


  I'll just leave it here:


Timecard said:


> Probably not fixed, you've said this after 10 other changes. Update in a week  Not sure if you're following my current thread around electricity/interference issues but pretty sure you were part of the nvidia input lag thread and others. I assume you still have the exact same issue. Many things influence it but symptoms return 99% of the time.


 

Alright, now serious. I don't have USB connector plugged, I only plug: "power" and "reset" jumpers, front audio connector. I don't even have any SATA cables since I use NVM-e only on my main PC. Believe me or not but I can assure you it doesn't help with EMI problem. If it helped you then it's probably only temporary, like it usually happens when you have EMI issue.


----------



## Don Himself

Hey great thread

does anyone have an updated Definitive guide for 2020 on the absolute best settings for windows 10 to reduce input lag? Preferably known latency-reducing settings that have been tested and verified please

Maybe a link to the page in this thread in which is was updated/posted


Thank you!


----------



## SuperMumrik

Look up Fr33thy on YouTube


----------



## x7007

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> I'll just leave it here:
> 
> Alright, now serious. I don't have USB connector plugged, I only plug: "power" and "reset" jumpers, front audio connector. I don't even have any SATA cables since I use NVM-e only on my main PC. Believe me or not but I can assure you it doesn't help with EMI problem. If it helped you then it's probably only temporary, like it usually happens when you have EMI issue.




K, now I seriously on to something. let's say every GPU has HDMI even without using the HDMI it installs a High Definition Audio Controller. now what I tried is disabling/enabling device on the device manager looking for a pattern of anything that improves the mouse. I disabled some network devices then some Print queues then I moved forward to System Devices. I disabled High Definition Audio Controller that related to the 1080GTX Audio controller, as soon I disabled this device I had more than 60% improved mouse speed. Now I tested it over and over and over more than 10 times. I can feel the accuracy improved. The mouse for certain moves better. now EVERYONE has this device on the System Devices and I am certain not all disable it, but they disable the Sound, Video and Game Controller DEVICE instead, which doesn't change anything!

So if anyone who wants to check this, please disable the High Definition Audio Controller from System Devices, also if you have Realtek, try to disable it also from System Devices, every High Definition Audio Controller you have. You will lose ALL AUDIO but you will check if the movement mouse is IMPROVED!


From what I remember we didn't have Audio drivers with GPUS that didn't have HDMI, so if we take it as granted, we did not have ISSUES with GPUS without Audio Controllers, take an example from r0ach idea of the USB C on the RTX GPUS which causes input lag


----------



## Timecard

There has been many reports of nvidia audio drivers/device causing issues probably over 10 years, worth a shot if you haven't tried it. I believe it had to do with resource sharing originally.


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> There has been many reports of nvidia audio drivers/device causing issues probably over 10 years, worth a shot if you haven't tried it. I believe it had to do with resource sharing originally.



I heard I am not sure about this but clearly I didn't do anything much and somehow I got more FPS. I will continue testing but just taking notice of what I've changed to remember.

I always had issues with UEFI bios booting with 1080GTX even after I updated the GOP, I get an error with 78 code ACPI Core initialization” my guess it's not detecting GPU (Q-code 78 means it is not detecting a monitor.) , Even though it is still booting perfectly fine, but I don't have a signal on my TV > HDMI till windows load up, means I can't see BIOS till I restart before windows CTRL + ALT + DEL or after windows.

So to I Enabled CSM

Someone said changing from UEFI to CSM gave him more FPS in CS. but we don't know the whole story, it was an AMD card.


I also change the GPU fan to 100% and locked it to specific Core Mhz. using CTRL + F and L after I selected specific Mhz Curve.

It can't be EMI for me because I have my old I7 3770K which doesn't have any issue, both in the same room connected to different outlets but I did the test using splitters to get to the other room outlet and it was the same.


Also something annoying that I can never understand. LatencyMon usually detects the CPU SPEED as 40Mhz. now I couldn't fix this damn thing to detect it correctly, I didn't know what even control it. after I changed things in the bios and restart it was always 40mhz, now with the same settings I just turned the PC off and on and windows detect it properly as 3997mhz.. now, why only turning it off with the same bios settings it detects it properly??


Also, my DPC is close to perfect even on load, Nvlddmkm.sys doesn't go anywhere above 555us on first time and that's it. even while gaming. I think this is related to Memory 1T timing, no matter what I did, only 2T made sure it won't happen. Though it always jumps to 2000us when enabling windows HDR, nothing can do about it.

Also don't use Bcdedit /set useplatformTick Yes, it screwed the DPC also with Nvlddmkm.sys over 490000us when I just enabled it, all the time it jumped. 

I can open 3 chrome windows with more than 100 tabs at least and it wouldn't move, also playing Just Cause 4 and it doesn't even bother it.
Mouse still far from perfect but I am testing every single thing because I got tired of this.


Also how stupid it sounds. when I only have 1 Language English USA but with UK Keyboard, the input lag reduces DRAMATICALLY like almost 80%, I remember this is what I did before and I couldn't believe how good my aim was in Just Cause 4 compare to without this. I needed to change that because it causes some weird issues in games like Heroes of the Storm where I always use Spacebar to lock the char and for some stupid reason when it's on UK keyboard the game would stutter as hell when it follows the char, even with 300 FPS or 60fps VSYNC it would always stutter as long you use the SpaceBar to lock on char, if you just use L (Lock camera) then it would work fine, but I like to use the spacebar when needed.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> let's say every GPU has HDMI even without using the HDMI it installs a High Definition Audio Controller. now what I tried is disabling/enabling device on the device manager looking for a pattern of anything that improves the mouse. I disabled some network devices then some Print queues then I moved forward to System Devices. I disabled High Definition Audio Controller that related to the 1080GTX Audio controller, as soon I disabled this device I had more than 60% improved mouse speed. Now I tested it over and over and over more than 10 times. I can feel the accuracy improved.


 Yes, it has been known for years I think.



x7007 said:


> Also how stupid it sounds. when I only have 1 Language English USA but with UK Keyboard, the input lag reduces DRAMATICALLY like almost 80%


 I tested it some time ago and didn't notice any difference on Windows 8.1/10.

If it's not EMI issue and everything is fine on your second PC then I'd start with BIOS reset. Disable any overclock, do memory test (TestMem5 with 1usmus profile, RunMemTest Pro), CPU stress test, GPU stress test, try other power supply if needed, make sure you configured everything PROPERLY in BIOS. Then I'd install Windows 8.1 to see if you got better results with it or not, because for me Windows 10 always has a bit more input-lag than 8.1, not like it's completely unplayable or too annoying but still.


----------



## Dabura

x7007 said:


> I checked another thing, I think this might be for everyone.
> 
> There are cables for the power, LEDs, front USB cables that in some cases are grouped together. I think by splitting them you can fix the EMI issues inside the case. I am still testing it but the theory seems legit as USB cables behave like antennas.
> 
> Some people suggested that but usually they only did it for the BACK cables, not the inside FRONT cables.
> 
> I think the people who have mouse issues are usually the people who don't split these cables which must be a lot of people. I didn't know it affect that much. another point is when I did the same for my old I7 3770K and couldn't understand why it was working better as the problem was fixed even with Microsoft old 125hz mouse that had input lag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mouse became smooth and precise in instant
> 
> if people could test this theory.
> 
> *
> *** If anyone did everything they can and they still have issues and did not try to split these cables. PLEASE DO SO, you might be surprised that it fixes your issues if you did EVERYTHING.*


Interesting post, thanks for sharing. I'll try here on my PC. I hope it will solve the problem I have been having, since it seems unfixable.


----------



## RamenRider

THIS IS IT, I FINALLY FREAKING FOUND IT

THE PROBLEM IS FROM THE POS WINDOWS ITSELF

ALL WINDOWS VERSIONS ARE FOREVER BROKEN AND WILL IGNORE DISABLE FULLSCREEN OPTIMIZAITON

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/ck13z9/psa_windows_10_1903_will_now_ignore_the_disable/

Now all that's left is to get rid of the vysnc and dwm. Maybe if we can find a way to change the "High DPI Scaling"/DPI awareness back to before 1709, or disable it completely, it'll also be great for aiming. BRING BACK SCREEN TEARING



RamenRider said:


> >[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Win dows\Psched]
> 
> Other things I'm looking at:
> 
> * This network optimization guide. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=727946014
> 
> * This latency thread about RSS https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73030
> 
> * Another general OS tweaking guide. https://github.com/CHEF-KOCH/Gaming...ral)#operating-system-general-tweaking-advice
> 
> The ipconfig stuff I did was a pretty big change, I didn't know my hit reg problems were that bad. Although I still need to fix my OS problems.


The General OS tweaking guide here is really great, even better than my guide.


----------



## Avalar

Haven't been keeping up with all this mumbo jumbo for a while. I'm on Windows 1803 still. Haven't touched "disable fullscreen optimization" for any app on my PC before. What does it do? There a video I could watch?


----------



## Timecard

Avalar said:


> Haven't been keeping up with all this mumbo jumbo for a while. I'm on Windows 1803 still. Haven't touched "disable fullscreen optimization" for any app on my PC before. What does it do? There a video I could watch?


demystifying-full-screen-optimizations
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/


----------



## x7007

Investigating more, I've discovered that when enabling SB Spread Spectrum detect the Reported CPU Speed correctly at 3992Mhz. when it's Disabled instead AUTO the Cpu clock speed is 40Mhz in Latencymon, I have no idea why would SB (South Bridge) Spread Spectrum would cause that??? The real name of it is CG1_PLL Spread Spectrum. For some reason, I have better DPC AUTO than Disabled, but it could be just random.

I have Gigabyte X399 Auros Gaming 7 motherboard, now I don't use the original Bios, because Gigabyte sent me some bios with PCI-E x4 GEN Control that doesn't on the original bios, now I think this bios has CPU Spread Spectrum Disabled because that's what made the difference to the CPU BLCK speed that is now 99.8-100mhz instead 97 or 96. 

would be maybe cool to check with the AMBIOS program or what's it called to see the differences in the BIOSes.


EDIT : So it seems the SB Clock Spread Spectrum affects the Memory Clock, instead 1599.9mhz it reducing it to 1596mhz. so the SB is controlling the Memory

Global C-State Control Enabled/Auto causing some weird input lag

Both of them seems to cause some big delay with the mouse movement, ice skating feeling with delay


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

x7007 said:


> Global C-State Control Enabled/Auto causing some weird input lag
> 
> Both of them seems to cause some big delay with the mouse movement, ice skating feeling with delay


 On my Ryzen PC somehow I have better mouse movement when I keep C-States on "Auto" instead of manually setting it to Enabled/Disabled. I wouldn't say it gives me any noticeable delay. On Intel systems I prefer to disable C-States.


----------



## x7007

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> On my Ryzen PC somehow I have better mouse movement when I keep C-States on "Auto" instead of manually setting it to Enabled/Disabled. I wouldn't say it gives me any noticeable delay. On Intel systems I prefer to disable C-States.


It seems for me it's the same enabled/auto

I wonder how he really fixes his issue, he tested his computer even in his neighbor's house and also the electricity at his house. he did everything, it's a new AMD system, not something old.

He said only VCORE SOC Voltage fixed his issue. 

I am getting 1.140 now, and he gave it 1.217. I use 1950x so I need more
https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...em-input-lag/?do=findComment&comment=13140188

*UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE LOOK BELOW* 
Did anyone read that?!


> Computers and other digital electronic equipment. These devices create and use signals which are switched on/off at great speed. It is the case that any repetitive signal can be reduced down to a Fourier series of sine waves. It so happens that a perfect square wave is
> E = Eo sin (ωt) - {Eo sin (2ωt)}/2 + {Eo sin (3ωt)}/3 ......
> 
> As the term goes on for ever to higher and higher frequencies the square wave contains harmonics of the fundamental which go on upwards in frequency for ever, these harmonics are responsible for much of the interference created by computers. A modern PC is a device which is operating in the VHF/UHF frequency range using square waves. As the cases on many computers are not perfect shields, some of this radio frequency energy can leak out and cause interference to radio (and sometimes TV) reception.
> 
> Very high frequency (VHF) is the ITU designation[1] for the range of radio frequency electromagnetic waves (radio waves) from 30 to 300 megahertz (MHz), with corresponding wavelengths of ten meters to one meter. Frequencies immediately below VHF are denoted high frequency (HF), and the next higher frequencies are known as ultra high frequency (UHF).
> 
> Ultra high frequency (UHF) is the ITU designation for radio frequencies in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz), also known as the decimetre band as the wavelengths range from one meter to one tenth of a meter (one decimeter). Radio waves with frequencies above the UHF band fall into the super-high frequency (SHF) or microwave frequency range. Lower frequency signals fall into the VHF (very high frequency) or lower bands. UHF radio waves propagate mainly by line of sight; they are blocked by hills and large buildings although the transmission through building walls is strong enough for indoor reception. They are used for television broadcasting, cell phones, satellite communication including GPS, personal radio services including Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, walkie-talkies, cordless phones, and numerous other applications.
> 
> The IEEE defines the UHF radar band as frequencies between 300 MHz and 1 GHz.[1] Two other IEEE radar bands overlap the ITU UHF band: the L band between 1 and 2 GHz and the S band between 2 and 4 GHz.


[NOT FULLY TESTED] EDIT: It seems that CORE Voltage LLC and CORE SOC Voltage LCC both on Medium instead Normal which Off. have better input lag


EDIT: I tested another power cable to the PC without the UPS, it was the same. I put back the same cable to the UPS and replaced the Power strip to another one and the input lag almost disappeared. I took the one that I used for my other computer that doesn't have any input lag there.


TESTING MORE: 
HPET Enabled in bios doesn't change anything with mouse movement. in windows, it's default command not exist.
Power Phase Auto or eX Perf doesn't change anything.




EDIT : : ONE of the weirdest **** happened to me in the history of 27 years. I messed with the bios, nothing that will cause issues, I made a Windows To Go USB 1607 version to test. now the first mistake it was on 16GB DOK. I tried to open some things to download gpu drivers but it barely worked, edge always crashing or didn't work or nothing else opened. I got notification from windows saying not enough space. I checked it was full-on 14GB. so I restarted and this went weird as hell. the computer started to restart it-self a couple of times and then said bios settings tested. I went into the bios once again and saw BIOS VER F1 since year 2017 or so ! which doesn't even exist in the gigabyte website, that's like the first firmware released. when I got the motherboard it was version F6 or something, somehow it wanted to use the backup bios for UNKNOWN reason. so windows didn't boot with this firmware, it would try to boot and restart after 2 sec. though I wanted to check how the mouse responds because why the hell would this thing happened and other weird things won't get "FIXED" because of it. Even after updating to F3J it didn't boot and also the newest F12, only after I chose manually to boot from the Boot Manager from the bios it booted. now another thing I saw the happened, now the AMD Auto Overclock thing works. it wouldn't work ever before!! I think the bios update they did from the start ****ed everything and only now it works like it should. So always update your bios and have the CLEAR DMI DATA because it doesn't usually does that. and if you didn't update it yourself, update it again that you get NEW FIRMWARE UPGRADE, I think using the DOK should do that and not from the Bios flash which doesn't do that on default, or it doesn't, I don't know.

*Now before this weird thing happened, I try to move the I/O Shielding while the computer is on, by moving I mean like touching it with some force from the left side of the computer and move it so to in real-time if the mouse changes in speed. I think this might cause the weird bios issue, I mean why would Windows To Go cause this weird-ass thing?????!!


Another weird thing also, one time after I Load Optimized Default I disabled everything I don't need, LAN adapter and Audio, for some reason windows still had the SOUND Adapter (Realtek) working even when it's DISABLED in the bios and downloaded drivers for it! I mean talk about weird..


Things that changed from the same bios I had before the weird issue.

Bus speed still 99.8mhz which with older bios it was 96.x Mhz.
AMD PBO Overclock works now


THE PBO Auto Overclock didn't work at all!! no matter what I tried to do, now it works out of the box with my personal settings, not even load optimized defaults. also, the last modified Gigabyte sent me fix the Bus speed and it also stayed after I updated the official F12, so clearly the bios I had all this time since I got this motherboard was ****ed up!



* I think everyone should do a clean bios UPDATE, I'm not sure how, but I think it's related to Clear DMI Data. First update, check how u can Clear DMI Data and then Clear Cmos and Load optimized defaults.


EDIT : As far the moment mouse seems perfectly fine, I will follow up if something changes.



So I have 2 thoughts of when it could be nothing but Bios Firmware and something that touching the I/O Shielding and if people have their computer outside the case it could well be something in the bios!

These 2 Options not everyone tested!*


----------



## x7007

PLEASE READ THIS UPDATE IN MY LAST POST.

This is the weirdest thing I've ever happened in my history of computers!

This could be the answer for NOTHING from Electricity or Hardware, just position of I/O shielding or Bios Firmware (Corruption), could be both.


----------



## Mr_VIT

x7007,
Your motherboard has a dual BIOS ROMs (2x flash chips). Not all MBs with dual BIOS.
Loading (settings/bios image) form 1st failed and then loaded from 2nd.
the most likely cause of data corruption on a flash chip is power interruption while writing settings or updating BIOS image.


----------



## x7007

Mr_VIT said:


> x7007,
> Your motherboard has a dual BIOS ROMs (2x flash chips). Not all MBs with dual BIOS.
> Loading (settings/bios image) form 1st failed and then loaded from 2nd.
> the most likely cause of data corruption on a flash chip is power interruption while writing settings or updating BIOS image.


right, but I was with this bios for at least a year.. so while it happened and worked for a year with them bugs since I got the motherboard it could be at that moment it happened. also it could be that I mess with the i/o shield while the comp is on that cause the bios to be corrupted... worth checking, bios is not trustable, that's what I learned

I did not do update firmware more than 5 months at least. so updating when it happened is not that


----------



## 508859

x7007 said:


> It seems for me it's the same enabled/auto
> 
> I wonder how he really fixes his issue, he tested his computer even in his neighbor's house and also the electricity at his house. he did everything, it's a new AMD system, not something old.
> 
> He said only VCORE SOC Voltage fixed his issue.
> 
> I am getting 1.140 now, and he gave it 1.217. I use 1950x so I need more
> https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...em-input-lag/?do=findComment&comment=13140188
> 
> *UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE LOOK BELOW*
> Did anyone read that?!
> 
> 
> [NOT FULLY TESTED] EDIT: It seems that CORE Voltage LLC and CORE SOC Voltage LCC both on Medium instead Normal which Off. have better input lag
> 
> 
> EDIT: I tested another power cable to the PC without the UPS, it was the same. I put back the same cable to the UPS and replaced the Power strip to another one and the input lag almost disappeared. I took the one that I used for my other computer that doesn't have any input lag there.
> 
> 
> TESTING MORE:
> HPET Enabled in bios doesn't change anything with mouse movement. in windows, it's default command not exist.
> Power Phase Auto or eX Perf doesn't change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT : : ONE of the weirdest **** happened to me in the history of 27 years. I messed with the bios, nothing that will cause issues, I made a Windows To Go USB 1607 version to test. now the first mistake it was on 16GB DOK. I tried to open some things to download gpu drivers but it barely worked, edge always crashing or didn't work or nothing else opened. I got notification from windows saying not enough space. I checked it was full-on 14GB. so I restarted and this went weird as hell. the computer started to restart it-self a couple of times and then said bios settings tested. I went into the bios once again and saw BIOS VER F1 since year 2017 or so ! which doesn't even exist in the gigabyte website, that's like the first firmware released. when I got the motherboard it was version F6 or something, somehow it wanted to use the backup bios for UNKNOWN reason. so windows didn't boot with this firmware, it would try to boot and restart after 2 sec. though I wanted to check how the mouse responds because why the hell would this thing happened and other weird things won't get "FIXED" because of it. Even after updating to F3J it didn't boot and also the newest F12, only after I chose manually to boot from the Boot Manager from the bios it booted. now another thing I saw the happened, now the AMD Auto Overclock thing works. it wouldn't work ever before!! I think the bios update they did from the start ****ed everything and only now it works like it should. So always update your bios and have the CLEAR DMI DATA because it doesn't usually does that. and if you didn't update it yourself, update it again that you get NEW FIRMWARE UPGRADE, I think using the DOK should do that and not from the Bios flash which doesn't do that on default, or it doesn't, I don't know.
> 
> *Now before this weird thing happened, I try to move the I/O Shielding while the computer is on, by moving I mean like touching it with some force from the left side of the computer and move it so to in real-time if the mouse changes in speed. I think this might cause the weird bios issue, I mean why would Windows To Go cause this weird-ass thing?????!!
> 
> 
> Another weird thing also, one time after I Load Optimized Default I disabled everything I don't need, LAN adapter and Audio, for some reason windows still had the SOUND Adapter (Realtek) working even when it's DISABLED in the bios and downloaded drivers for it! I mean talk about weird..
> 
> 
> Things that changed from the same bios I had before the weird issue.
> 
> Bus speed still 99.8mhz which with older bios it was 96.x Mhz.
> AMD PBO Overclock works now
> 
> 
> THE PBO Auto Overclock didn't work at all!! no matter what I tried to do, now it works out of the box with my personal settings, not even load optimized defaults. also, the last modified Gigabyte sent me fix the Bus speed and it also stayed after I updated the official F12, so clearly the bios I had all this time since I got this motherboard was ****ed up!
> 
> 
> 
> * I think everyone should do a clean bios UPDATE, I'm not sure how, but I think it's related to Clear DMI Data. First update, check how u can Clear DMI Data and then Clear Cmos and Load optimized defaults.
> 
> 
> EDIT : As far the moment mouse seems perfectly fine, I will follow up if something changes.
> 
> 
> 
> So I have 2 thoughts of when it could be nothing but Bios Firmware and something that touching the I/O Shielding and if people have their computer outside the case it could well be something in the bios!
> 
> These 2 Options not everyone tested!*


*

you generate a lot of gray noise, but zero real value :|*


----------



## x7007

numberfive said:


> you generate a lot of gray noise, but zero real value :|




EDIT: You need to push the motherboard as much as you can to the I/O shield. so the connectors will be right on it. this will give the Lowest input lag.


----------



## 508859

x7007 said:


> EDIT: You need to push the motherboard as much as you can to the I/O shield. so the connectors will be right on it. this will give the Lowest input lag.


no, it will not


----------



## RamenRider

Naw naw all of you are wrong. There are extreme input lag differences between OS's/systems. 



RamenRider said:


> THIS IS IT, I FINALLY FREAKING FOUND IT
> 
> THE PROBLEM IS FROM THE POS WINDOWS ITSELF
> 
> ALL WINDOWS VERSIONS ARE FOREVER BROKEN AND WILL IGNORE DISABLE FULLSCREEN OPTIMIZAITON
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/ck13z9/psa_windows_10_1903_will_now_ignore_the_disable/
> 
> Now all that's left is to get rid of the vysnc and dwm. Maybe if we can find a way to change the "High DPI Scaling"/DPI awareness back to before 1709, or disable it completely, it'll also be great for aiming. BRING BACK SCREEN TEARING.


There has to be even more registry tweaks to improve my performance! I've won all my ranked (masters OW) games so far. This registry tweak is insanely good. I say it's brought my input lag back to 90% potential. Here's my registry right now. I played around with it a bit like set DVR_enabled to 1 or added GameDVR_FSEBehavior, but this works fine for now. See [Picture Attatchment 1] My Input lag for gaming I'd say is around 85-90% fixed, but the overall responsiveness is still cursed. I guess the only way out is the scour the internet for a worthy ISO or maybe find a way to install my build correctly. 

Here's 2 more options to fix disable fullscreen optimization on registry. https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGROUNDS/comments/c387jf/real_fullscreen_fix_windows_10_fullscreen/ I tried the 211 Flag thing on overwatch, but forgot to save my registry so I couldn't test it on and off.

So as you all know I compare input lag differences between builds, mostly AMD. I've had Everything from Dell Inspiron i3s - Athlon - FX - and all 3 Generations of Ryzen. The problem started when Windows started changing the way their DWM worked and for a while, all you needed to do was disable fullscreen optimization and that was it. Nowadays the input lag is apparent across the entire system from desktop to applications. This is what I call a CursedOS. They are even backrolling some of these changes to Windows 7 and Windows 8. There is something inherently wrong with different Windows versions/ISOs/updates/build configurations/or even installations that affect how well it performs. 

Just a few days ago I went to my friend's house and tested his 3700x build and his girlfriend's 1600 build. His 3700x has much more input lag in both desktop and games even if using a 2080super. Her 1600 with rx 590 has phenomenal input lag, it felt so amazing to use; I haven't felt something so good in a long time. Her build didn't even need the registry tweaks, it was Perfect and disable fullscreen optimization worked great as intended. Even just using the mouse on the desktop felt incredible. They are both auto updated to the latest 1909 and their registries on GameConfigStore were identical. 
The differences are that he built her that PC along time ago, back when the rx 590 came out or a bit before. His 3700x was built last year, so maybe like most of my newer installs, they all have input lag now because the ISOs that microsoft put out are all garbage Cursed OS's. One thing that I did discover from this is that Freesync sometimes feels better enabled. Maybe it was just placebo. Attached are images of their GameConfigStore registries and systems.

[Pic 2 and 3 is her 1600 build information and registry, she didn't need any fixing.] 

[Pic 4 is his 3700 build with his registry. It looks the same as hers but for some reason it's a CursedOS.] 

[Pic 5 is her rx 590 driver that was never updated. It was still showing Ghost Recon Breakpoint ads.]


----------



## x7007

RamenRider said:


> Naw naw all of you are wrong. There are extreme input lag differences between OS's/systems.
> 
> 
> 
> There has to be even more registry tweaks to improve my performance! I've won all my ranked (masters OW) games so far. This registry tweak is insanely good. I say it's brought my input lag back to 90% potential. Here's my registry right now. I played around with it a bit like set DVR_enabled to 1 or added GameDVR_FSEBehavior, but this works fine for now. See [Picture Attatchment 1] My Input lag for gaming I'd say is around 85-90% fixed, but the overall responsiveness is still cursed. I guess the only way out is the scour the internet for a worthy ISO or maybe find a way to install my build correctly.
> 
> Here's 2 more options to fix disable fullscreen optimization on registry. https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGROUNDS/comments/c387jf/real_fullscreen_fix_windows_10_fullscreen/ I tried the 211 Flag thing on overwatch, but forgot to save my registry so I couldn't test it on and off.
> 
> So as you all know I compare input lag differences between builds, mostly AMD. I've had Everything from Dell Inspiron i3s - Athlon - FX - and all 3 Generations of Ryzen. The problem started when Windows started changing the way their DWM worked and for a while, all you needed to do was disable fullscreen optimization and that was it. Nowadays the input lag is apparent across the entire system from desktop to applications. This is what I call a CursedOS. They are even backrolling some of these changes to Windows 7 and Windows 8. There is something inherently wrong with different Windows versions/ISOs/updates/build configurations/or even installations that affect how well it performs.
> 
> Just a few days ago I went to my friend's house and tested his 3700x build and his girlfriend's 1600 build. His 3700x has much more input lag in both desktop and games even if using a 2080super. Her 1600 with rx 590 has phenomenal input lag, it felt so amazing to use; I haven't felt something so good in a long time. Her build didn't even need the registry tweaks, it was Perfect and disable fullscreen optimization worked great as intended. Even just using the mouse on the desktop felt incredible. They are both auto updated to the latest 1909 and their registries on GameConfigStore were identical.
> The differences are that he built her that PC along time ago, back when the rx 590 came out or a bit before. His 3700x was built last year, so maybe like most of my newer installs, they all have input lag now because the ISOs that microsoft put out are all garbage Cursed OS's. One thing that I did discover from this is that Freesync sometimes feels better enabled. Maybe it was just placebo. Attached are images of their GameConfigStore registries and systems.
> 
> [Pic 2 and 3 is her 1600 build information and registry, she didn't need any fixing.]
> 
> [Pic 4 is his 3700 build with his registry. It looks the same as hers but for some reason it's a CursedOS.]
> 
> [Pic 5 is her rx 590 driver that was never updated. It was still showing Ghost Recon Breakpoint ads.]



Weird, the registry on his computer is same as mine, and hers is different than both of us. also the "Win32_AutoGameModeDefaultProfile" "Win32_GameModeRelatedProcesses" are different
can you send the full registry file?

Also why both of them missing "GameDVR_FSEBehavior"?

I will check both my old I7 3770K with Intel iGPU and my Laptop Asus G71JT with I7 4710HQ 970M
This is mine on 1950x 



> [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore]
> "GameDVR_Enabled"=dword:00000000
> "GameDVR_FSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000002
> "GameDVR_FSEBehavior"=dword:00000002
> "Win32_AutoGameModeDefaultProfile"=hex:02,00,01,00,00,00,c4,20,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00
> "Win32_GameModeRelatedProcesses"=hex:01,00,01,00,01,00,67,00,61,00,6d,00,65,00,\
> 70,00,61,00,6e,00,65,00,6c,00,2e,00,65,00,78,00,65,00,00,00,57,02,4e,95,0f,\
> 75,00,02,9d,02,88,f3,9c,02,1e,00,00,00,00,02,9d,02,1e,00,00,00,0f,00,00,00,\
> 04,ea,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
> "GameDVR_HonorUserFSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000000
> "GameDVR_DXGIHonorFSEWindowsCompatible"=dword:00000000
> "GameDVR_EFSEFeatureFlags"=dword:00000000




After I did the same registry the same as hers I had notification of services that don't start anymore.......

How many services this GameDVR is running omg.


----------



## x7007

Something weird just happened.

I have APC UPS 1500VA SMART

I have Strip of 6 which my MikroTik Router, MikroTik Switch, Modem, Ambivision Leds, and Ambivision Camera.

I only connected a power strip of 2 connectors to the UPS and unplugged both the Ambivision power cord and plugged them to the powerstrip directly connected to the UPS. and the moment for some reason the Ambivision camera was not detected on the WIFI network, I unplugged again and replugged and suddenly it was detected. also after I checked this I noticed somehow without even touching anything near the computer, the mouse didn't get power from USB like it was unplugged, I unplugged replugged and it detected.

What the hell is going on with the power??

I ordered some new OMEGA power Strips just to isolate those cheap power strips I might have

The power strip might cause issues or the device might have something weird. Everything else was working fine except for the mouse which was working fine all along before I unplugged the power cables. also, the weird Ambivision which was not detected on the WIFI network, I mean both things are weird, it could be the Ambivision didn't get power like the mouse because I couldn't know if it has power or not, no lights on the camera. Also, the computer is connected through UPS! so nothing actually suppose to interrupt its power! what could interrupt the mouse to get power??


----------



## 508859

RamenRider said:


> Naw naw all of you are wrong. There are extreme input lag differences between OS's/systems.
> 
> 
> 
> There has to be even more registry tweaks to improve my performance! I've won all my ranked (masters OW) games so far. This registry tweak is insanely good. I say it's brought my input lag back to 90% potential. Here's my registry right now. I played around with it a bit like set DVR_enabled to 1 or added GameDVR_FSEBehavior, but this works fine for now. See [Picture Attatchment 1] My Input lag for gaming I'd say is around 85-90% fixed, but the overall responsiveness is still cursed. I guess the only way out is the scour the internet for a worthy ISO or maybe find a way to install my build correctly.
> 
> Here's 2 more options to fix disable fullscreen optimization on registry. https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGROUNDS/comments/c387jf/real_fullscreen_fix_windows_10_fullscreen/ I tried the 211 Flag thing on overwatch, but forgot to save my registry so I couldn't test it on and off.
> 
> So as you all know I compare input lag differences between builds, mostly AMD. I've had Everything from Dell Inspiron i3s - Athlon - FX - and all 3 Generations of Ryzen. The problem started when Windows started changing the way their DWM worked and for a while, all you needed to do was disable fullscreen optimization and that was it. Nowadays the input lag is apparent across the entire system from desktop to applications. This is what I call a CursedOS. They are even backrolling some of these changes to Windows 7 and Windows 8. There is something inherently wrong with different Windows versions/ISOs/updates/build configurations/or even installations that affect how well it performs.
> 
> Just a few days ago I went to my friend's house and tested his 3700x build and his girlfriend's 1600 build. His 3700x has much more input lag in both desktop and games even if using a 2080super. Her 1600 with rx 590 has phenomenal input lag, it felt so amazing to use; I haven't felt something so good in a long time. Her build didn't even need the registry tweaks, it was Perfect and disable fullscreen optimization worked great as intended. Even just using the mouse on the desktop felt incredible. They are both auto updated to the latest 1909 and their registries on GameConfigStore were identical.
> The differences are that he built her that PC along time ago, back when the rx 590 came out or a bit before. His 3700x was built last year, so maybe like most of my newer installs, they all have input lag now because the ISOs that microsoft put out are all garbage Cursed OS's. One thing that I did discover from this is that Freesync sometimes feels better enabled. Maybe it was just placebo. Attached are images of their GameConfigStore registries and systems.
> 
> [Pic 2 and 3 is her 1600 build information and registry, she didn't need any fixing.]
> 
> [Pic 4 is his 3700 build with his registry. It looks the same as hers but for some reason it's a CursedOS.]
> 
> [Pic 5 is her rx 590 driver that was never updated. It was still showing Ghost Recon Breakpoint ads.]


one might deduce, that none of the mentioned settings has anything to do with input lag


----------



## RamenRider

x7007 said:


> Weird, the registry on his computer is same as mine, and hers is different than both of us. also the "Win32_AutoGameModeDefaultProfile" "Win32_GameModeRelatedProcesses" are different
> can you send the full registry file?
> 
> Also why both of them missing "GameDVR_FSEBehavior"?


 Hers and his are both the same no? I'm pretty sure mine was the same before I tweaked it too. We all have the latest 1909 win10. You could test adding it in, I did it for a while but I'm too lazy to test again.

x7 you should really make your own Input Lag fixing guide on Amd's community forums. I feel like you have megaton of good info but you should really compile it all in one place. You do a lot of physical tweaking.



numberfive said:


> one might deduce, that none of the mentioned settings has anything to do with input lag


That's what I'm saying. There is something very wrong with newer Microsoft ISOs. Might be another registry tweak needed for DWM, or desktop or idk so many variables.

Input lag is a relatively new problem in the computing world and Microsoft just doesn't care. When Xbox One X's have less of a problem than most newer builds, it's pretty sad and such a widespread issue. Some people don't even know they have it, and some don't even realize other people do have it. I can feel the difference because I've been gaming for so long. I used to follow Roach's guide and disable everything in BIOS, but now everything just feels better on default.

AMD needs to create it's own OS, they are the only one who can do it.


----------



## 508859

RamenRider said:


> That's what I'm saying. There is something very wrong with newer Microsoft ISOs. Might be another registry tweak needed for DWM, or desktop or idk so many variables.
> 
> Input lag is a relatively new problem in the computing world and Microsoft just doesn't care. When Xbox One X's have less of a problem than most newer builds, it's pretty sad and such a widespread issue. Some people don't even know they have it, and some don't even realize other people do have it. I can feel the difference because I've been gaming for so long. I used to follow Roach's guide and disable everything in BIOS, but now everything just feels better on default.
> 
> AMD needs to create it's own OS, they are the only one who can do it.


there is not a single registry setting with a significant positive impact on the input lag. 
it's nice that you at least stopped following roach's recommendations


----------



## Timecard

RamenRider said:


> Input lag is a relatively new problem in the computing world


What.....?


----------



## x7007

Does anyone have their Router power supply on the same power strip or close to any other device? it seems the mouse didn't work properly and I just moved the router power supply to a different slot on the same power strip and it was better instantly just without changing anything else. I think the router power supply which WE ALL HAVE has some weird issues if you've taken EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY.


----------



## 508859

x7007 said:


> Does anyone have their Router power supply on the same power strip or close to any other device? it seems the mouse didn't work properly and I just moved the router power supply to a different slot on the same power strip and it was better instantly just without changing anything else. I think the router power supply which WE ALL HAVE has some weird issues if you've taken EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY.


try critical thinking. 

any change that you do is like "it was better instantly", but for some reason you are still on this thread with more tweaks and changes every day


----------



## x7007

numberfive said:


> try critical thinking.
> 
> any change that you do is like "it was better instantly", but for some reason you are still on this thread with more tweaks and changes every day


are you one of the people have issues with input lag?
all I say is the more we have written is more ideas on the table. I am here because what's tested is better written. so we continue and never go into loop. my critical thinking is knowledge . I hope to get more ideas from people who test things. we have mouse input lag more than ever because emi is all around us and more power flowing between us and outside. also I don't have issue from 2 meter far other computer. but it had weird usb issues a d also my comp too. it can be possibly 2 computer with weird issues else there something causing it to happen. I appreciate your answers but they are not giving us in the thread anything useful, just criticism.


----------



## Timecard

You talk about power and emi issues being cause yet you think a windows setting is going to fix it?


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> You talk about power and emi issues being cause yet you think a windows setting is going to fix it?


look on the biggest picture, we are humans and we can make mistakes before we find answers. the mire mistakes we do we know more answers, that's the rule of elimination. it seems like you attack the ones with ideas. I don't understand the reason for that. it would be helpful if you give insight of what possibly cause that or change


----------



## Timecard

Just asking questions to lead focus and discussion. If you know external influences are significant and they produce inconsistent results or big changes in your perception, should you not focus primarily on those variables first? Possibly they are the cause of instability or fluctuations in your computers operation in general.


----------



## 508859

x7007 said:


> are you one of the people have issues with input lag?
> all I say is the more we have written is more ideas on the table. I am here because what's tested is better written. so we continue and never go into loop. my critical thinking is knowledge . I hope to get more ideas from people who test things. we have mouse input lag more than ever because emi is all around us and more power flowing between us and outside. also I don't have issue from 2 meter far other computer. but it had weird usb issues a d also my comp too. it can be possibly 2 computer with weird issues else there something causing it to happen. I appreciate your answers but they are not giving us in the thread anything useful, just criticism.


nothing is tested by you, because as roach, you operate with feels. and every change that does nothing is "better instantly". show me a single useful and meaningful tweak OR a fix in those 400 pages.


----------



## RamenRider

Timecard said:


> What.....?


Sorry I meant gaming world. PC gaming included. All the old consoles played so well, nes, gb, gc, ps1, ps2, xbox, dreamcast even PC gaming until 2016. Windows keeps getting worse and worse for gaming with every update. Companies and consumers do not really care about latency at all anymore. As long as it looked good and didn't affect performance too much.



numberfive said:


> there is not a single registry setting with a significant positive impact on the input lag.
> it's nice that you at least stopped following roach's recommendations


Big disagree. That disable fullsceen optimization patch is a significant difference. But you know what makes the biggest difference?

I just downloaded 2016 LTSB and it's so damn good. No input lag in desktop or games! Sure scaling is broken and looks ugly, but everything is smooth and responsive especially in games. Went 61 elims and 33 final blows in an OW ranked match, haven't had this much fun in a long time. I could have been a pro but I just couldn't find the cause for the lag soon enough.

But there's another thing that may have also affected my performance. My Power Cord! I remember researching audiophiles and power cords make a huge difference when it comes to latency and performance. https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/ It turned out I was using one of those old ****ty generic cords, but changing it to a hefty looking fat one seems to have made a difference.

Here's a great read on it. https://www.essentialsound.com/power-cable-technology.htm

I don't know if I wanna spend $200~ for some but DIY seems fun. 




Lastly I was also using old default Radeon drivers too, so I will see if updating them makes a difference, and if updating to 2019 ltsc will also make an impact. But Ryzen scheduler wasn't really "fixed" until 1903 Sigh.


----------



## 508859

RamenRider said:


> Big disagree. That disable fullsceen optimization patch is a significant difference. But you know what makes the biggest difference?
> 
> I just downloaded 2016 LTSB and it's so damn good. No input lag in desktop or games! Sure scaling is broken and looks ugly, but everything is smooth and responsive especially in games. Went 61 elims and 33 final blows in an OW ranked match, haven't had this much fun in a long time. I could have been a pro but I just couldn't find the cause for the lag soon enough.


which disable fullscreen optimization patch? the executable setting? 

so you had 400 pages to come up with this one?


----------



## x7007

One suggestion I can give you which was not in all the 400 pages. Do not connect the router to the same Power Strip, or connect it to the farthest plug farthest from anything close to the computer. I don't know what this thing is doing but as long the router power cable is far away from the computer the Input lag becomes less and less till it's gone, and I tested this over and over and over more than 10 times. clearly it behaves like ANTENA because it is ANTENA and we know what happens to USB3 Connectors when they get anything from routers and such devices.

I also checked some power outlets in the house with Device called iTest Pro ST007, some of the plugs are Reversed Polarity, I am not sure how much it affects anything, I will need to check with an electrician.


----------



## Timecard

x7007 said:


> clearly it behaves like ANTENA because it is ANTENA and we know what happens to USB3 Connectors when they get anything from routers and such devices.
> I also checked some power outlets in the house with Device called iTest Pro ST007, some of the plugs are Reversed Polarity, I am not sure how much it affects anything, I will need to check with an electrician.


Nice, finally looking at electrical issues  many devices still operate with reversed polarity. Do you get better input response/delay when your computer is disconnected from the router? Perhaps anything electrical should be in another thread otherwise its unrelated to authors original topic, your own or in mine.

https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20900908/diagnosing-power-problems-at-the-receptacle


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Nice, finally looking at electrical issues  many devices still operate with reversed polarity. Do you get better input response/delay when your computer is disconnected from the router? Perhaps anything electrical should be in another thread otherwise its unrelated to authors original topic, your own or in mine.
> 
> https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20900908/diagnosing-power-problems-at-the-receptacle



I get better accurate mouse movement when the router is disconnected, though I have also Router/Modem Docsis 3.0 it is set to ONLY BRIDGE so WIFI is not turned on or enabled. also, I have just normal Switch but every cable is CAT6 at least.

The input lag is reduced to almost the same as the router disconnected as long the Router Power plug is far away from the UPS or the computer, or even in the plug strip. Still need to lower it more, it's still not working on the lowest one, but the mouse is ACCURATE there are 2 things to note, Accuracy and Input Lag, both of them can happen at the same time and only one of them can be. so to be specific at the moment, I have an Accurate mouse with lower Input lag, still, need to reduce the input lag even more. My TV OLED E6 has already high input lag by itself, but there is something else that gives like interferences which causes delay because of the USB3 antennas which receive any data it can.

Post your thread so I'll know the right one. I will post there


----------



## Timecard

Electrical issue causing input de-synchronization or input loss
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375...sing-input-de-synchronization-input-loss.html

I'd recommending reading through it first, it might help you rule out some stuff yourself or find correlations in similar changes we talk about.


----------



## RamenRider

Well my input lag returned. Definitely from an update, even on 2016 LTSB it comes to haunt me. SMH, I knew I should have disabled updates completely with wpd.app or some other win10 privacy tool. 


I did find this other general guide for removing stuttering from games. https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/d15vyg/how_to_remove_stuttering_in_games_possible_fix/ 
I really like this one because it can do a lot more than just DFSO.

It provided this unofficial script https://pastebin.com/1twn8geB for disabling FSO. It doesn't really affect anything cause DFSO is broken in 1903 anyways. 
However someone from the ReviOS discord recommended me this tool that could potentially disable DWM, but I don't know how to use it or open it after I cloned it. https://github.com/Biswa96/Junkyard/blob/master/c/KillDwm.c

Lastly I found this method to disable DWM on certain applications. Much easier to do than the aforementioned tweaks. But I'm not sure if it worked or not. https://superuser.com/questions/1509013/is-there-a-way-to-disable-dwm-on-windows-10-1903

It's under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers
and the game I want to edit, I set it as ~ DISABLEDXMAXIMIZEDWINDOWEDMODE HIGHDPIAWARE DISABLEDWM. Don't know if my formatting is correct.


----------



## EastCoast

RamenRider said:


> Well my input lag returned. Definitely from an update, even on 2016 LTSB it comes to haunt me. SMH, I knew I should have disabled updates completely with wpd.app or some other win10 privacy tool.
> 
> 
> I did find this other general guide for removing stuttering from games. https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/d15vyg/how_to_remove_stuttering_in_games_possible_fix/
> I really like this one because it can do a lot more than just DFSO.
> 
> It provided this unofficial script https://pastebin.com/1twn8geB for disabling FSO. It doesn't really affect anything cause DFSO is broken in 1903 anyways.
> However someone from the ReviOS discord recommended me this tool that could potentially disable DWM, but I don't know how to use it or open it after I cloned it. https://github.com/Biswa96/Junkyard/blob/master/c/KillDwm.c
> 
> Lastly I found this method to disable DWM on certain applications. Much easier to do than the aforementioned tweaks. But I'm not sure if it worked or not. https://superuser.com/questions/1509013/is-there-a-way-to-disable-dwm-on-windows-10-1903
> 
> It's under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers
> and the game I want to edit, I set it as ~ DISABLEDXMAXIMIZEDWINDOWEDMODE HIGHDPIAWARE DISABLEDWM. Don't know if my formatting is correct.


I just posted about it in another thread. I see you too have corsair ram? 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/28513322-post81.html


----------



## Timecard

Wrote a powershell script that lets you set and query windows timer resolution, perhaps simpler than some solutions out there and you're in control. Technically you could run a similar script on boot for persistence.

https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCSetup/blob/master/Scripts/SetandQueryTimerRes.ps1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/142...cript-set-query-windows-timer-resolution.html


----------



## RamenRider

I finally found the tweak I was looking for. This DWM tweak fixes newer Windows 10 versions to be even better than even the 2016 LTSB.

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512

In the last few lines, just set DWM.exe to idle on process lasso and restart the dwm every session. This is it guys. True progress. The recent Regedit tweaks, I don't know what they did but they probably lowered DWM's interference on the pipeline so performance was increased 75%. This tweak however freezes it, even if temporarily and feels like it's at least 90% better.


----------



## Layed

RamenRider said:


> I finally found the tweak I was looking for. This DWM tweak fixes newer Windows 10 versions to be even better than even the 2016 LTSB.
> 
> https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512
> 
> In the last few lines, just set DWM.exe to idle on process lasso and restart the dwm every session. This is it guys. True progress. The recent Regedit tweaks, I don't know what they did but they probably lowered DWM's interference on the pipeline so performance was increased 75%. This tweak however freezes it, even if temporarily and feels like it's at least 90% better.


do you keep process lasso always running in background when gaming?


----------



## RamenRider

Layed said:


> do you keep process lasso always running in background when gaming?


Yes of course? There's no other way to use process lasso. It's the best for performance and energy efficiency.


----------



## EastCoast

He does mention using Process Hacker to do the same thing to DWM.


----------



## SuperMumrik

RamenRider said:


> I finally found the tweak I was looking for. This DWM tweak fixes newer Windows 10 versions to be even better than even the 2016 LTSB.
> 
> https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512
> 
> In the last few lines, just set DWM.exe to idle on process lasso and restart the dwm every session. This is it guys. True progress. The recent Regedit tweaks, I don't know what they did but they probably lowered DWM's interference on the pipeline so performance was increased 75%. This tweak however freezes it, even if temporarily and feels like it's at least 90% better.



This works 
Got a friend of mine to make me a script


----------



## EastCoast

SuperMumrik said:


> This works
> Got a friend of mine to make me a script


Lets compare notes here. 
What are you noticing with DWM lowered?


----------



## SuperMumrik

I felt less "deadzone", and my flicks seems to be back to normal quicker than usual. I work off-shore so I have two weeks break from gaming every now and then so I need some adjusting when I get home


----------



## Layed

this dwm **** is biggest placebo i ever seen xd


----------



## PurpleChef

So after trying multiple win10 versions and tweaks, all i can say is win8.1 is king. 
Forget about your dwm hax and and power chords. some basic tweak in 8.1 and is performing way smoother with a better mouse feel om my setup.
W10 just getting worse and worse and you have to spend hours optimizing everything, and it still feels like garbage. In the end you prolly end up with bluescreen or random crashes after all disabling of whatnot.
We human adapt to stuff even tho its bad.
Im using usb interface and all that, and mouse feel is perfect. Forget about your "mouse being only usb device for best performance"
its 2020. If youre getting rekt in your favorite game its prolly because your bad, not your dwm or powerchords.
Im still waiting for a mouse graph / mouse movement recorder screenshot were someone has super stable mouse hz on w10. In 7 and 8.1 its kinda hard to not get a good graph.


----------



## ToTheSun!

PurpleChef said:


> So after trying multiple win10 versions and tweaks, all i can say is win8.1 is king.
> Forget about your dwm hax and and power chords. some basic tweak in 8.1 and is performing way smoother with a better mouse feel om my setup.
> W10 just getting worse and worse and you have to spend hours optimizing everything, and it still feels like garbage. In the end you prolly end up with bluescreen or random crashes after all disabling of whatnot.
> We human adapt to stuff even tho its bad.
> Im using usb interface and all that, and mouse feel is perfect. Forget about your "mouse being only usb device for best performance"
> its 2020. If youre getting rekt in your favorite game its prolly because your bad, not your dwm or powerchords.
> Im still waiting for a mouse graph / mouse movement recorder screenshot were someone has super stable mouse hz on w10. In 7 and 8.1 its kinda hard to not get a good graph.


I heard the entire esports scene is switching to win8 because of your findings.


----------



## PurpleChef

ToTheSun! said:


> I heard the entire esports scene is switching to win8 because of your findings.


Lets be real here. Most of the pro esports player dont know anything about optimizing their system. They barely know how to find the controll panel.
As i said, humans adapt to stuff even tho they are bad.
Windows 10 have nothing new good except wddm. Full of bloat and unwanted updates. 
I don't really see the point of your comment. And its not new findings. Your in a thread that started 2013. 
Im pretty sure ppl perform worse in tournaments than at home cus of unoptimized garbage windows pcs. To bad ppl cant choose.


----------



## ToTheSun!

PurpleChef said:


> Lets be real here. Most of the pro esports player dont know anything about optimizing their system. They barely know how to find the controll panel.
> As i said, humans adapt to stuff even tho they are bad.
> Windows 10 have nothing new good except wddm. Full of bloat and unwanted updates.
> I don't really see the point of your comment. And its not new findings. Your in a thread that started 2013.
> Im pretty sure ppl perform worse in tournaments than at home cus of unoptimized garbage windows pcs. To bad ppl cant choose.


Yeah, that's true. If only professional esports players were as keen and perceptive as you are.


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Back in the days pro players had to use **** LCD monitors, at least at some tournaments, and somehow managed to show good skills, so?

The difference between CRT and LCD is obviously bigger than between Win 10 and 8.1 and I'm not gonna argue which Windows version is better for competitive, but "professional esports players" argument is nothing but appealing to authority and irrelevant.


----------



## ToTheSun!

Th3Awak3n1ng said:


> Back in the days pro players had to use **** LCD monitors, at least at some tournaments, and somehow managed to show good skills, so?
> 
> The difference between CRT and LCD is obviously bigger than between Win 10 and 8.1 and I'm not gonna argue which Windows version is better for competitive, but "professional esports players" argument is nothing but appealing to authority and irrelevant.


Yeah, I suppose that's fair. I didn't realize I was producing a fallacy. Thanks for pointing it out. It's hard to notice these things when you prefer to side with actual data and capable people instead of feels and 0.5 KD forum scientists. I promise you I didn't mean it.

Again, my apologies.


----------



## RamenRider

PurpleChef said:


> So after trying multiple win10 versions and tweaks, all i can say is win8.1 is king.
> Forget about your dwm hax and and power chords. some basic tweak in 8.1 and is performing way smoother with a better mouse feel om my setup.
> W10 just getting worse and worse and you have to spend hours optimizing everything, and it still feels like garbage. In the end you prolly end up with bluescreen or random crashes after all disabling of whatnot.
> We human adapt to stuff even tho its bad.
> Im using usb interface and all that, and mouse feel is perfect. Forget about your "mouse being only usb device for best performance"
> its 2020. If youre getting rekt in your favorite game its prolly because your bad, not your dwm or powerchords.
> Im still waiting for a mouse graph / mouse movement recorder screenshot were someone has super stable mouse hz on w10. In 7 and 8.1 its kinda hard to not get a good graph.


You are correct about 8.1 but not about my gaming performance. Also you can only currently play PSO2 on Windows 10 and won't be able to use stuff like Xbox game pass.

I have found the rest of the fixes I need(hopefully) and compiled the rest into this thread. I highly recommend you guys try the Classic Alt Tab patch, hugely affects mouse movement and alt tab speed. Apparently windows renders a crap ton of stuff on the desktop.
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7168

But as I said, if you don't have input lag you don't need these tweaks. Maybe, just maybe Windows 10 acts differently on certain motherboards, or perhaps it's the installation. Whatever it is, it is fixable, I just need to find it. Also here's all the ways to disable DWM that I found.


----------



## Timecard

I used one of the examples you linked to which was C code to kill dwm by suspending winlogon, the method does work and you can recreate using my GameMode script I shared in another thread. It's not perfect but if you wanted to try. Tested on Win1909.

Killing DWM in Win10 example using Game-Mode Script
Based on https://github.com/Biswa96/Junkyard/blob/master/c/KillDwm.c

1. Open task manager
2. Open Powershell as admin and import game-mode script
3. Edit the command line below to open the game of your choice between both sleep commands
4. Edit the second sleep timer to determine when to re-activate DWM via restoring winlogon. (in seconds.)
5. Run the command below, shortly after make sure winlogon is suspended (details tab) then manually kill DWM via task manager then wait for your game to launch after the first sleep timer.

GM-SuspendProcess-ByName("winlogon"); sleep 10; start steam://rungameid/10; sleep 300; GM-ResumeProcess-ByName("winlogon");


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

PurpleChef said:


> So after trying multiple win10 versions and tweaks, all i can say is win8.1 is king.


Well, I've installed Windows 10 v2004 today for testing and played 10 matches in CS:GO. Input lag is good and game runs even smoother than on 8.1.


----------



## EastCoast

SuperMumrik said:


> I felt less "deadzone", and my flicks seems to be back to normal quicker than usual. I work off-shore so I have two weeks break from gaming every now and then so I need some adjusting when I get home





Layed said:


> this dwm **** is biggest placebo i ever seen xd





Timecard said:


> I used one of the examples you linked to which was C code to kill dwm by suspending winlogon, the method does work and you can recreate using my GameMode script I shared in another thread. It's not perfect but if you wanted to try. Tested on Win1909.
> 
> Killing DWM in Win10 example using Game-Mode Script
> Based on https://github.com/Biswa96/Junkyard/blob/master/c/KillDwm.c
> 
> 1. Open task manager
> 2. Open Powershell as admin and import game-mode script
> 3. Edit the command line below to open the game of your choice between both sleep commands
> 4. Edit the second sleep timer to determine when to re-activate DWM via restoring winlogon. (in seconds.)
> 5. Run the command below, shortly after make sure winlogon is suspended (details tab) then manually kill DWM via task manager then wait for your game to launch after the first sleep timer.
> 
> GM-SuspendProcess-ByName("winlogon"); sleep 10; start steam://rungameid/10; sleep 300; GM-ResumeProcess-ByName("winlogon");


So is the DWM trick working for folks or not in win10? Getting mix messages.

I tried it myself and honestly didn't notice anything in MW 2019. Still experimenting though on win10.


----------



## Timecard

It works in win10 as noted above but I didn't feel a difference, prob since win10 is already pretty heavy.


----------



## RamenRider

EastCoast said:


> So is the DWM trick working for folks or not in win10? Getting mix messages.
> 
> I tried it myself and honestly didn't notice anything in MW 2019. Still experimenting though on win10.





Timecard said:


> It works in win10 as noted above but I didn't feel a difference, prob since win10 is already pretty heavy.


It works only if you have input lag. If you don't, you don't. It's that simple. 2 out of 3 friend's builds I've tested did not have input lag. But as to why some people do and some people don't, I can only say that windows is garbage. 

But I recommend trying the classic alt tab patch too. Might shave off a frame of input lag.
forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7168


----------



## EastCoast

RamenRider said:


> It works only if you have input lag. If you don't, you don't. It's that simple. 2 out of 3 friend's builds I've tested did not have input lag. But as to why some people do and some people don't, I can only say that windows is garbage.
> 
> But I recommend trying the classic alt tab patch too. Might shave off a frame of input lag.
> forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7168


Do you need to alt-tab out the game to get it to work or is is automatic when you log back into win10? 

I'm also looking for the System Visual Options for Raw Performance tweak as well.


----------



## HishGamer

@r0ach if you see this post could you explain this: "Because anytime you load the software for any of these mice it gives you a completely non-deterministic result each time. Sometimes cursor movement will be faster and more responsive, sometimes slower. And it will never feel identical to how it did straight from the factory before you exposed it to the software. Makes no sense but that's the way it is." you mentioned that in this thread:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...-people-5.html

Does that mean that I permanently changed my razer viper behavior behavior because I "exposed" it to razer synapse? or everything goes back to normal like factory settings if I connect it to another computer ? without razer synapse never installed on it.


----------



## sgtdisembodied

*DWM Latency IO Tweak?*

Hi, long time lurker of this thread, and also a big audio nerd.
Happy with all of your contributions through the years, even if it gets a little dubious and messy at times. Thanks to all the experts for their input and to the tweakers for bringing up new topics and interesting new options.

I'm on Win10, 100 hz display, with lord knows how many tweaks for gaming and optimizations for live audio playback. Mostly been following the likes of Melody and CHEF-KOCH lately.

I recently was messing in regedit, since I've been trying to address some audio latency issues (which I've bettered by normalizing my voltages in BIOS, but still present) and wondered if anyone knows what these do, and if they're worth modifying for input/audio latency.

////

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\BackgroundModel\BackgroundAudioPolicy

AllowHeadlessExecution = 1 //original is 0
AllowMultipleBackgroundTasks = 1 //original is 1 (might try another value sometime)
InactivityTimeoutMs = FFFFFFFF //original is 6ddde (I think, oops)

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows

DwmInputUsesIoCompletionPort = 0 //original is 1 (I suspect this could be big for input response)
EnableDwmInputProcessing = 0 // original is 7 (curious to why original is 7 and not 1)

////

My cursor movement is now a dream, it actually felt really weird at first, kinda like cracking headshots without interpolation when you've been used to it.
Of course, I'm not claiming this was the actual cause (or that these even do anything), so I wonder if anyone knows what these actually do or has any experience with these. DWM disabling is a big deal for some in this community, so you might want to take a crack at it.

I await your hate comments with anticipation.


----------



## sgtdisembodied

*DWM Latency IO Tweak?*

Edited, double post


----------



## Th3Awak3n1ng

Tried it, don't see/feel any difference.


----------



## Don Himself

SuperMumrik said:


> Look up Fr33thy on YouTube


Did. Great channel. Just wish it could all be condensed into a thread tbh. I think the entire series is over 10hr watch time lol


----------



## KulaGGin

sgtdisembodied said:


> ////
> 
> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\BackgroundModel\BackgroundAudioPolicy
> 
> AllowHeadlessExecution = 1 //original is 0
> AllowMultipleBackgroundTasks = 1 //original is 1 (might try another value sometime)
> InactivityTimeoutMs = FFFFFFFF //original is 6ddde (I think, oops)
> 
> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows
> 
> DwmInputUsesIoCompletionPort = 0 //original is 1 (I suspect this could be big for input response)
> EnableDwmInputProcessing = 0 // original is 7 (curious to why original is 7 and not 1)
> 
> ////


Had to edit permissions for the key to make it work: https://www.howtogeek.com/262464/how-to-gain-full-permissions-to-edit-protected-registry-keys/


----------



## x7007

how many times do you need to replace TIM - Thermal Paste for the CPU? because for me I almost need for GPU 1080gtx Inno3D x3 and CPU every 4-5 months or so..... is it for everyone????

I have tried many Thermal Pastes, they all have the same durability, they could have different TM or whatever it's called, but I think it affects things.


----------



## BroadPwns

x7007 said:


> how many times do you need to replace TIM - Thermal Paste for the CPU? because for me I almost need for GPU 1080gtx Inno3D x3 and CPU every 4-5 months or so..... is it for everyone????
> 
> I have tried many Thermal Pastes, they all have the same durability, they could have different TM or whatever it's called, but I think it affects things.


Why do you ask here lol. You change the paste once you see a big raise between initial temperatures and recent and if you have to change every ~5 months then you're doing something wrong, including using sheit tier paste.


----------



## Crazydave

bro mayne you gotta replace your thermal paste for the input delay optimisationsz


----------



## RamenRider

sgtdisembodied said:


> *DWM Latency IO Tweak?*
> My cursor movement is now a dream, it actually felt really weird at first, kinda like cracking headshots without interpolation when you've been used to it.
> Of course, I'm not claiming this was the actual cause (or that these even do anything), so I wonder if anyone knows what these actually do or has any experience with these. DWM disabling is a big deal for some in this community, so you might want to take a crack at it.
> 
> I await your hate comments with anticipation.


Welcome. I think it works, might just be placebo. Although I suspect the latter does more than the former. Very strange. Last night I was playing around with the DWORDS in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore and it fixed DFO even for a bit.

After using your tweak my HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Dwm registry has changed. It now looks like this. Prior to this it had a bunch of the Dwords that would affect
compositions and performance you know as "Adjust the Appearance and Performance of Windows." It included Dwords like Composition, ColorGlassAttribte, ect.









Did you already check my BlurBusters thread? Here's some more tweaks. We need to find them all.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/gxamm7
It was either after this tweak, or your tweak that this DWM registry changed.



KulaGGin said:


> Had to edit permissions for the key to make it work: How to Gain Full Permissions to Edit Protected Registry Keys


Here's even more tweaks. This guide basically took everything from my guide and added even 1000x more. https://docs.google.com/document/d/18uPEXJC5LSto8x9X_GteSI58sfQLCfamDG1HNHJWrQU/edit


----------



## wirefox

I am on the most updated 2004. play apex. don't have said issues.

here is the folder on my end.


----------



## RamenRider

wirefox said:


> here is the folder on my end.


Yeah that's how mine used to look like. I don't know what happened. It changes back to normal after a reboot anyways.

Either way I wonder what OneCoreNoBootDWM does on my end.
Actually I found from older forums 2014-15 that your screen would go black if you change it. I do remember ending explorer.exe In win7 when I needed more performance for my games lol. [DISCUSSION] Windows 10 Technical Preview Build 9841


----------



## KulaGGin

RamenRider said:


> Here's even more tweaks. This guide basically took everything from my guide and added even 1000x more. https://docs.google.com/document/d/18uPEXJC5LSto8x9X_GteSI58sfQLCfamDG1HNHJWrQU/edit


Thanks, I added it to my bookmarks and I'll look through it sometime in the future.


----------



## RamenRider

SuperMumrik said:


> This works
> Got a friend of mine to make me a script


Yo can I get a script?


----------



## SuperMumrik

Sure, but I'm offshore for another week.


----------



## extremeperson

Hey guys after a TON of digging through absolutely everything, bios settings, hidden bios settings, nvidia inspector, regedit you name it I managed to find the source for my issue and it sounds super counterintuitive but it 100% works for me. The issue appears to come from the way windows decided to implement cursor movement and frame pacing, it seems to be tied to DWM or something, however I can't seem to find a way to brute force my way around it, I can only modify everything else to adapt to the way it's working.
So I believe this issue came about somewhere in 2018, for me it began in October of 2018 and what I believe it is is that windows is syncing your cursor to the triple-buffered dwm. While I can globally disable TB/vsync, force classic fullscreen, and lower max prerendered frames, this all actually makes everything WORSE, because it appears interrupts themselves are synced to the desktop. What this means is if you mitigate that 80-100 ms of display lag through the above options, your inputs will now be desynced from your monitor's frame outputs and you'll get all the wacky "bugs" like clearly clicking on heads and not getting headshots or missing easy skillshots in mobas.
I'm not sure when this issue truly came about because in win7 you could disable dwm by using a non-aero theme and so I basically never had lag issues until I got a new pc and was forcibly upgraded to win10. The issue still occurs on win8.1 however I have not tried disabling hardware accelerated desktop composition. Your results may vary with this, but I imagine that won't fix anything since pointer trails = -1 in registry forces software cursor and that fixes nothing for me. windows 7 method.

What I did:
-Force VSYNC + triple buffering globally
-Run games in borderless windowed mode
-Low latency mode OFF
-Preferred Framerate: Highest Available
-GSYNC Off
*if your monitor(s) is/are truly gsync compatible you may not have this problem, however my freesync monitors had issues even with freesync enabled on my old gpu and have the same problem with gsync. 

Obviously you're going to have to manage an increase in input lag if you enable vsync and triple buffering, however, as I stated before you *already have this lag*. It's baked into the windows OS. Honestly it doesn't even feel bad to me at this point after about 2 years of putting up with cursor desync. I tried 8.1, I tried linux gaming (only better if the game natively supports linux otherwise you're dealing with desktop composition through wine), and sadly my attempts at maintaining a win7 OS on my 8600k seem to be more pain than it's worth (even if I get past the USB 3.0/nvme stuff it always inevitably bricks itself somehow). The only way I could imagine being able to get around this is by finding what the mouse is synced to, changing the permissions on it, and forcing lower latency through NVCP, but I don't think it's feasible because I think interrupts themselves are synced to this and windows gives you pretty much nothing to work with when it comes to interrupts.

I had convinced myself it was an electricity thing for awhile but I had my electrician come and find no issues and eventually got the motivation to do more digging. Keep in mind it's not good enough to simply enable vsync, you need triple buffering as well (and I enable vsync in games as well to be safe). It's obviously not the most elegant solution to force input lag into your games but for me the sound/input/frame desync causes me physical illness in the form of migraines while I'll be honest I hardly notice the increase in input lag as I'm on 144hz. If anyone finds a way around this I'd love to know. My best theory is that there's just an innate issue with dwm with triple buffering off, it seems to struggle at handling interrupts with VSYNC and TB forced off. As you can see if you move the cursor really fast, DWM's cpu usage will increase, so it seems the cursor is handled by DWM, this issue means even if you use true fullscreen to bypass DWM for your game, you will still have the issue with your mouse so you will be receiving frames on time, but your mouse will still be 50-100 ms behind (or w/e ms based on the input lag difference). If you run borderless + vsync + TB, you will receive frames as fast as you can react to them so despite the existence of the input lag, everything will respond correctly as far as you can see. Realistically, it's not that much lag increase anyways at 144hz, a factor of about ~50ms, if everything worked properly it'd be a crucial 50 ms, however it's far more preferable than getting your frames 50ms faster than your mouse inputs. That 50ms is enough desync to absolutely ruin your tracking.


----------



## extremeperson

An addendum to the above, make sure you have hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling turned off too. Everything that intends to reduce "input lag" appears to only be reducing display lag with no affect on actual inputs. There's either something wrong with input priority or frame-pacing with dwm, I'm not certain which it is. I do know I still get tearing when I simply cap fps to my framerate and even vsync isn't smooth, my cursor also stutters like crazy without TB on. It seems like with vsync off tearing gets worse with mouse movement and keyboard input as well. Really strange but I'm just glad I have something to work with after all the headaches.


----------



## Offler

extremeperson said:


> An addendum to the above, make sure you have hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling turned off too. Everything that intends to reduce "input lag" appears to only be reducing display lag with no affect on actual inputs. There's either something wrong with input priority or frame-pacing with dwm, I'm not certain which it is. I do know I still get tearing when I simply cap fps to my framerate and even vsync isn't smooth, my cursor also stutters like crazy without TB on. It seems like with vsync off tearing gets worse with mouse movement and keyboard input as well. Really strange but I'm just glad I have something to work with after all the headaches.


I upgraded from Phenom II x6 with Win7 to Threadripper 1900x with Win10. The DWM issue is no longer present in OS.

I also mostly recommend Vsync+Triple buffering if you want to have smoothest experience, while i dont see any issue with FreeSync.


----------



## RamenRider

extremeperson said:


> The issue appears to come from the way windows decided to implement cursor movement and frame pacing, it seems to be tied to DWM or something, however I can't seem to find a way to brute force my way around it, I can only modify everything else to adapt to the way it's working.
> 
> I had convinced myself it was an electricity thing for awhile but I had my electrician come and find no issues and eventually got the motivation to do more digging. As you can see if you move the cursor really fast, DWM's cpu usage will increase, so it seems the cursor is handled by DWM, this issue means even if you use true fullscreen to bypass DWM for your game, you will still have the issue with your mouse so you will be receiving frames on time, but your mouse will still be 50-100 ms behind.


Yes, I had a feeling this was the case. Even if my input lag is insanely good now from all my tweaks, there is something weird about mouse movement. I talked about this in my thread.(in signature). And don't listen to those guys who say it's all electricity. Their problem is very rare and can cause schizophrenia for people who don't know how to diagnose their own problems.

One of the updates did change how mouse movement worked. It'd be great if I could find a regedit to fix it.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/76eaeh









A recent Windows 10 update is hurting game performance and messing with mice


Microsoft's working on it. As a short-term fix, Microsoft says you can uninstall the update.




www.pcgamer.com





I highly recommend you check out my blurbusters thread. I got rid most of my input lag and got Exclusive Fullscreen back


----------



## x7007

Can you post your Autoruns64.exe file? I checked my friend and mine and I saw a lot of differences between the services running. I want to know if actually, windows uses different services depends on the drivers that can cause repeating input lag. 











Autoruns for Windows - Sysinternals


See what programs are configured to startup automatically when your system boots and you login.



docs.microsoft.com


----------



## Timecard

Dropping this here just incase you guys missed it. Research on Multimedia Class Scheduler Service (MMCSS)


----------



## nofearek9

hello, usb dac where is better to plug it ,on usb2 or usb3 ? (asus rampage iv BE)


----------



## x7007

Anyone with 9xx series and 1xxx try to use the Nvidia DP update, it supposes to do some update, it changed something for me after the update.






NVIDIA Graphics Firmware Update Tool for DisplayPort 1.3 and 1.4 Displays


Download English (U.S.) drivers for NVIDIA hardware - , , ,



www.nvidia.com


----------



## x7007

No one tried the Nvidia GOP update? it fixes the DP 1.3-1.4 support and makes UEFI GOP bootable issues fix. Also after the update, the mouse movement is almost the same as the laptop, and the laptop 970m didn't need the update because it doesn't have DP. but it changes more things than just DP support. I recommend everyone to try it.


----------



## x7007

I've noticed my friend with 1070 had perfect mouse movement and he didn't need the update while I needed the update and had crappy movement. Also, after the update, the mouse was improved. so there must be more than the seeing eye on this matter. I don't know why no one reposts anything.


----------



## TrebleTA

This topic need to get a update as was written in 2013. Found this info has been very usefull over the years.


----------



## x7007

Tesintg more.


----------



## empl

RamenRider said:


> Yeah that's how mine used to look like. I don't know what happened. It changes back to normal after a reboot anyways.
> 
> Either way I wonder what OneCoreNoBootDWM does on my end.
> Actually I found from older forums 2014-15 that your screen would go black if you change it. I do remember ending explorer.exe In win7 when I needed more performance for my games lol. [DISCUSSION] Windows 10 Technical Preview Build 9841


Yeah I used to disable explorer too in W7, but disabling it does make mouse inaccurate in W10! I didn't try yet lowering priority, affinity, i/o, page priority. Maybe I could settle on that, if it won't affect negatively a mouse!



RamenRider said:


> Last night I was playing around with the DWORDS in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore and it fixed DFO even for a bit.


What is DFO?



x7007 said:


> I've noticed my friend with 1070 had perfect mouse movement and he didn't need the update while I needed the update and had crappy movement. Also, after the update, the mouse was improved. so there must be more than the seeing eye on this matter. I don't know why no one reposts anything.


Currently on RTX-3070-VENTUS-3X-OC, msi enabled by default. Has like 50-70us DPC latency max on multiple 30 minute tests! Mobo z390-i gaming with maximum interrupt to user process latency 100us!

*Some Z390 BIOS settings

IOAPIC 24-119 entries - on (more interrupt addresses, should be on if you use MSI)

Above 4G decoding - on (especially if you have resizable bar, or a lot of memory) - caused floaty mouse for me on (z390-i gaming,i5 9600kf, 3070)

Spread spectrum - on (helps with EMI), but can cause input lag - says Chief Blur Buster!

Intel Speed Step - off

Intel Turbo Boost - off (dynamic CPU freq.)

Intel Speed Shift - on faster C state transitions, voltage optimization. Seems it helped with input lag. More: My investigation of hardware P-states. ACPI adventure


Disable mobo RBG, also for your RAM!!!
Disable obviously all C state and power saving features, not only exclusive to CPU!

Some other setting:* CS GO TWEAKS - BIOS tweaks for gaming pc and cs:go

*CPU/RAM voltage:
VCCIO & VCCSA* *-* set to 1.1 -1.2v, start from 1.1 and test stability
*RAM -* check voltages are correct, some mobos overvolt RAM!!! Some don't even report correctly, so GL... ASROCK e.g.

*Misc:
Make sure to disable RAM testing via mobo switch, or BIOS!
Fastboot - off *(lag)
*Secureboot - off* (laaaaaag) it is scam anyways pbatard/rufus
*Use TPM* - ( can be used to spy on your by corporations etc.) improves system security

PS: sorry about formatting, no idea why this happened...

*BTW check these 2 Ultra Tweak guides:*
Melody's Ultra Tweaks Pack - Basic Tweaks - basic TWEAKS? HAHA - google doesn't even find what these do!









Calypto's Latency Guide


Calypto’s Windows Latency Guide Smoother, more responsive gameplay and input Latency is the time between a cause and an effect. An example of latency is input lag, or the time between moving your mouse and the cursor moving on the screen. A good portion of latency comes from the operating system...




docs.google.com


----------



## agN

Guys. As someone who have been struggling with input lag for 10 years and through this time i spend 8k euros on different pc setups, monitors ,keyboards , mouses , sound cards, network cards and as someone who owns his own debloated version twe windows 10 from 1607 up to 2004 with fr33thy's registry tweeks included i can tell you that all this tweeks is placebo. Every one of them. This was my first tweak guide i followed back when famous "CS ISNT SMOOTH" thread was created and i was also fr33thy die hard follower for half and year. If you want i can upload you windows 10 - 1607 , 1709 , 2004, 2009 clean and debloated as windows 7 with tools like interupt affinity policy tool, msi tool, radeonmod, autoruns contained in C:\Windows so you can easily run them from ALT+R. Really good stuff but yeah i have bad news for you, it is 110 % electricity problem. For now there is no 100 % fix this because many of us tried different things like buying power conditioners , buying online upses, changing stuff in main circuit board all this things somehow really affects how your both mouse and keyboard feels , it improved audio quallity aswell as quality of display clarity and sharpness. Doing this stuff like having a debloated version , having a tweaked bios (this actually can help) is nice but in the end DPC LATENCY DOES NOT AFFECT INPUT LAG. Just look at pro's you think players like furiousss or any other pro uses fancy tweaked debloated windows with no synthetic timers and stuff? you think any of this players cares about tweaking?. Just be honest to yourself and ask yourself why you are you still trying new things after all this years you spended tweaking stuff. Cus its always get bad right?. Sure this tweaking will help you with things such as faster boot or it is just comfortable to get 0 bloat and save some resources but if you want a better input buy a online ups and enjoy no input lag for week maybe more or less it all depends of power qualiity of your house and then it will slowly came back, like floaty mouse, heavy and slow feeling in games, muddy audio, desync in bullet registry and all stuff like this. If you are interested ask on blurbusters forum for invite to private discord group, but you need to be open minded to this possibility that root of this problem is actually electricity not timers or "super secret registry tweaks" otherwise you will get banned very quickly. By the way Calypto is member of this group too.


----------



## agN

Currently we are working with version that it may be caused by harmonic distortion. The wave that is coming from your AC to pc and monitor should be ideally always pure sine wave if it is too much distorded that can create voltage fluctations that can harm electronics.
Let me quote one guy from reddit that actually explains this how this work

"Computers are dependent on clock cycles. It's like taking a snapshot of everything at one instant. To time the 'snapshots' there's a square wave. High is a 1, low is a 0. When it's high, the processor checks to see if anything has changed states (i.e if the mouse has moved or not).

If the ground is messed up, the low wouldn't look like a 0. So the computer may be waiting for the next cycle, but it never comes or it's delayed since the 'low' is still viewed as 'high'. When the ground randomly hits a lower threshold, the computer finally updates which could be the perceived lag. "


----------



## Offler

Hi.
One update on Cyberpunk 2077 and useplatformclock and useplatformtick.

1. My current bios no longer offer to turn HPET off.
2. Disabling it in Device manager also does not have any effect.

3. When both useplatformclock and useplatformtick are ON, Cyberpunk on my system goes to 30 FPS on 1080p.
4. When are both OFF, it runs on 60 FPS at 1080p, where i set Frame limit.
5. If not set in bcdedit, game runs on 60fps.

Few notes:
I enabled resizable bar in bios, and my GPU is supporting it. If old driver is used, FPS also drops to 30 as well, with current Catalyst 21.3.1 it runs well.


----------



## empl

agN said:


> Guys. As someone who have been struggling with input lag for 10 years and through this time i spend 8k euros on different pc setups, monitors ,keyboards , mouses , sound cards, network cards and as someone who owns his own debloated version twe windows 10 from 1607 up to 2004 with fr33thy's registry tweeks included i can tell you that all this tweeks is placebo. Every one of them. This was my first tweak guide i followed back when famous "CS ISNT SMOOTH" thread was created and i was also fr33thy die hard follower for half and year. If you want i can upload you windows 10 - 1607 , 1709 , 2004, 2009 clean and debloated as windows 7 with tools like interupt affinity policy tool, msi tool, radeonmod, autoruns contained in C:\Windows so you can easily run them from ALT+R. Really good stuff but yeah i have bad news for you, it is 110 % electricity problem. For now there is no 100 % fix this because many of us tried different things like buying power conditioners , buying online upses, changing stuff in main circuit board all this things somehow really affects how your both mouse and keyboard feels , it improved audio quallity aswell as quality of display clarity and sharpness. Doing this stuff like having a debloated version , having a tweaked bios (this actually can help) is nice but in the end DPC LATENCY DOES NOT AFFECT INPUT LAG. Just look at pro's you think players like furiousss or any other pro uses fancy tweaked debloated windows with no synthetic timers and stuff? you think any of this players cares about tweaking?. Just be honest to yourself and ask yourself why you are you still trying new things after all this years you spended tweaking stuff. Cus its always get bad right?. Sure this tweaking will help you with things such as faster boot or it is just comfortable to get 0 bloat and save some resources but if you want a better input buy a online ups and enjoy no input lag for week maybe more or less it all depends of power qualiity of your house and then it will slowly came back, like floaty mouse, heavy and slow feeling in games, muddy audio, desync in bullet registry and all stuff like this. If you are interested ask on blurbusters forum for invite to private discord group, but you need to be open minded to this possibility that root of this problem is actually electricity not timers or "super secret registry tweaks" otherwise you will get banned very quickly. By the way Calypto is member of this group too.


LOL you are troglodyte... No it is not electricity problem... I have no EMI issues! I disabled BCLK spread spectrum and have no problems. I don't notice any problems mentioned by people with EMI! There is grounding and have new electrical circuits in flat + new circuit breaker: so it should be fine.

Chief blur buster says e.g. spread spectrum increases input lag:


Electrical issue(s) | "Floaty" mouse? - Blur Busters Forums


Besides he said even color profile can affect input lag!

Here you may want to read something about system latency, Windows affects latency greatly! Bad code and various things like HW acceleration, DWM, system services.








How To Reduce Lag - A Guide To Better System Latency


Optimize end to end system latency using NVIDIA Reflex technologies, PC changes, peripheral tweaks, and more.



www.nvidia.com












USB polling precision


It's an old topic really, but from what I gathered it has been mostly misunderstood and never thoroughly been touched upon. While mice themselves are only rarely to blame for polling imprecision, I still think the topic deserves a dedicated thread here as it greatly impacts mousing and is an...




www.overclock.net









Exploring Input Lag Inside and Out







www.anandtech.com





Yes! MSI affects input lag, because it provides better way of generating and delivering interrupts to a CPU: Windows: Line-Based vs. Message Signaled-Based Interrupts. MSI tool.

Yes DPC latency affect input lag, because of deadlocks and reduced system responsiveness. It can cause microstutters and input lag!

If it is all placebo, why do you think pros play on 1024x768 and lowest details and were disabling visual effects in windows and services? If it is all placebo? Otherwise not all pros do all this tweaking. Because same they won't allow you to touch some of settings (I think even BIOS sometimes) on these computers on LAN. So if they couldn't play on same setting, they wouldn't be consistent! Besides they don't have time, because they are practicing 8 hours per day least... Also tweaks only get you so far. But also it is basic requirement for being successful. Nvidia did studies and people on 360hz monitors can track target easier and aim faster: Introducing NVIDIA Reflex: Optimize and Measure Latency in Competitive Games

I was Supreme in CS GO and on clean install of Windows I couldn't kill even gold player...

Tests on pilots!








How many frames per second can the human eye really see?


30 fps? 60 fps? If you've ever debated framerates, the cognitive researchers we spoke to have some complex answers for you.




www.pcgamer.com





People can tell difference between 1000hz and 8000hz polling, that's like less than 1-2 ms difference. And you tell me this is all placebo...

Computers are complex system you have millions components, which can increase lag. Even if you have 1000 times 50 us lag, that's 5ms together... This all together can be measured on 1000 fps camera... You are just delusional...


----------



## Timecard

Regarding MSI being better.. you're also ignoring the fact that there's completely different driver code handling MSI interrupts/dpcs, maybe MSI is better but is the code? For some it feels worst. What are the impacts of mixing MSI and Legacy interrupts, does MSI get priority?. By using MSI on one device it could negatively impact the experience of another.
There's other benefits of playing on lower resolutions such as better visibility of bullet holes/decals while shooting, generalized...at high resolutions its 1 pixel and at low its 4.


----------



## agN

empl said:


> LOL you are troglodyte... No it is not electricity problem... I have no EMI issues! I disabled BCLK spread spectrum and have no problems. I don't notice any problems mentioned by people with EMI! There is grounding and have new electrical circuits in flat + new circuit breaker: so it should be fine.
> 
> Chief blur buster says e.g. spread spectrum increases input lag:
> 
> 
> Electrical issue(s) | "Floaty" mouse? - Blur Busters Forums
> 
> 
> Besides he said even color profile can affect input lag!
> 
> Here you may want to read something about system latency, Windows affects latency greatly! Bad code and various things like HW acceleration, DWM, system services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How To Reduce Lag - A Guide To Better System Latency
> 
> 
> Optimize end to end system latency using NVIDIA Reflex technologies, PC changes, peripheral tweaks, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nvidia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USB polling precision
> 
> 
> It's an old topic really, but from what I gathered it has been mostly misunderstood and never thoroughly been touched upon. While mice themselves are only rarely to blame for polling imprecision, I still think the topic deserves a dedicated thread here as it greatly impacts mousing and is an...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exploring Input Lag Inside and Out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.anandtech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes! MSI affects input lag, because it provides better way of generating and delivering interrupts to a CPU: Windows: Line-Based vs. Message Signaled-Based Interrupts. MSI tool.
> 
> Yes DPC latency affect input lag, because of deadlocks and reduced system responsiveness. It can cause microstutters and input lag!
> 
> If it is all placebo, why do you think pros play on 1024x768 and lowest details and were disabling visual effects in windows and services? If it is all placebo? Otherwise not all pros do all this tweaking. Because same they won't allow you to touch some of settings (I think even BIOS sometimes) on these computers on LAN. So if they couldn't play on same setting, they wouldn't be consistent! Besides they don't have time, because they are practicing 8 hours per day least... Also tweaks only get you so far. But also it is basic requirement for being successful. Nvidia did studies and people on 360hz monitors can track target easier and aim faster: Introducing NVIDIA Reflex: Optimize and Measure Latency in Competitive Games
> 
> I was Supreme in CS GO and on clean install of Windows I couldn't kill even gold player...
> 
> Tests on pilots!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many frames per second can the human eye really see?
> 
> 
> 30 fps? 60 fps? If you've ever debated framerates, the cognitive researchers we spoke to have some complex answers for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pcgamer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People can tell difference between 1000hz and 8000hz polling, that's like less than 1-2 ms difference. And you tell me this is all placebo...
> 
> Computers are complex system you have millions components, which can increase lag. Even if you have 1000 times 50 us lag, that's 5ms together... This all together can be measured on 1000 fps camera... You are just delusional...


bwahahah. yea yea not electricity related problem totally..... tell me about dpc latency (SOFTWARE driver latency in nanoseconds) please oooh yeah ell my about that that my setup 9700k , 3200mhz cl16, rx 570 8gb,) 1ms keyboard, 1ms mice and 240 hz monitor cant handle csgo or even 1.6 smoothly on low res with 600+ fps. you are delusional my friend just ask yourself why are you still and still and still searching for new and new tweaks... after sometime input is still ****ed up right?  this issue is not just about emi , electricity is very complex topic . Please tell me how my setup cant handle 1.6 on 640x480 how all that is windows composing fault even when i play exclusive fullscreen and **** is still present on all windows versions including windows 7 . yeah dpc latency can cause microstutters but has totally nothing to do with input lag . Its very simple if you have 1000hz mouse high refresh rate monitor, high average fps that can match your monitor refresh rate you should have like ZERO input lag and yet you still have it.I bet most of pro's have no idea what dpc latency and all of them are using bloated latest windows and they have no issues even with low avg fps because they are streaming.First guy who detailed described exact same symptoms of this problem like heavy strafing (input lag), ****ed up recoil (desync due input lag), floaty mouse in windows was guy called "schoof" , thread was called cs isnt smooth and was created back in 2009 in windows xp/ windows 7 and after later was closed or deleted i dont remember exactly but he created new thread in 2013 ( cs only runs normal after running it the first time (not only source engine games are affected but all games on steam!) fix for me: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/halflife/issues/387#issuecomment-249436648 · Issue #387 · ValveSoftware/halflife ) and i remember in original thread there was a guy who had exact same symptoms for 7 years and he just could not figgure out, so if he had this issue for 7 years in 2009 that means he had this problem in 2002 !!! SO PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT SYNTHETIC TIMERS (when 3d apps automaticaly forces qpc timer when launched, this was confirmed by wintimer tester tool developer) AND DPC LATENCY AGAIN. and YEAH exatly even color profile can affect input lag (mb because less colors = less power usage or some electricity related change).Also most of people agree that this problem shines mostly on daytime and usually gets better during night. If you dont believe me just buy online ups and see the difference , its not fix , problem will be still present but maybe less painful. For now there is no actual fix for this, debloating windows just boost your boot time and can really help with fps but trust me it have nothing to do with this problem.... Im not saying that 1000hz vs 8000hz is placebo or even that lower res is placebo ofc not i know lower resolution better frametime so obviously less input lag, im saying that all software related tweaks and all this dpc latency hunting is PLA-CE-BO because is 100 % electricity related problem. Here is the demonstration on using windows P.S Uz si to konecne priznaj ze tvoje tweaky funguju len docasne ale nikdy nejsi a ani si nebol 100 % spokojny a rovnake hovna budes muset riesit aj na windows 7 ci xp a jedina vec co spravia je ze mozno na slabsich setupoch dokazes realne nejaky ten snimok za sekundu pridat ale neni to ten feel jak hrat v roku 2005 ze?


----------



## empl

agN said:


> bwahahah. yea yea not electricity related problem totally..... tell me about dpc latency (SOFTWARE driver latency in nanoseconds) please oooh


*O M E G A L U L* flamewars here we go... I wasn't trying to trigger you, but I Am annoyed by people, which say it is all placebo, because it is not! I linked various things, which shows how input lag is generated...

*FYI:*

I have new cables in flat, after reconstruction
electricity should be grounded here AFAIK
there is new circuit-breaker
have PSU: RM650x 2018. and it is plugged into OV protected extension cable

I can disable BCLK spread spectrum and observe no problems!!! In opposite: it reduced input lag drastically! Ctrl+f: It can improve EMI-resistance but increase lag
Link: Electrical issue(s) | "Floaty" mouse? - Blur Busters Forums

You don't understand DPC latency. First, yes DPC latency is not direct measure of input lag! It is delay of how fast are interrupts handled by OS. These could be serviced in nano-seconds, but they can get up even into us/ms range. CPU can't do anything when handling interrupts. It will slow down overall system responsiveness and cause deadlocks. It is like domino and snowball effect. One thing will slow another thing, which will slow another thing and that will slow another... Which will cause input lag in the end! Badly coded drivers can indeed cause input lag by generating high DPC latency and slowing system responsiveness! And some mobos have even 1ms DPC latency!

Computers are complex systems, why do you think, nothing affects input lag, except electricity and what not? There are only millions of things, which can affect it, some most important:

HW: CPU, RAM, GPU, MOBO, timers, MONITOR, MOUSE & KEYBOARD, cables
SW: MOST IMPORTANT: kernel, game code, drivers code
Important: processes/services: (DWM and HID is known to cause major input lag) which cause CPU usage, HW accel, spyware, cleartype, visual effects

Not it is not efd. I was searching for tweaks, because I had fun improving. And I can tell input lag. I was Supreme in CS GO. I Am used to Windows 7 and super low input lag monitor, Windows 10 feels like **** to me...

A lot of input lag comes also from Windows... It is complex system and there are many things, which can cause lag! It has to do literally zero with your HW specs...

Pros... They don't allow them to tweak PC completely, or even change BIOS setting. So they don't tweak, because they wouldn't have same consistency on their setup, when they are playing. + not everyone cares, or is into computer stuff. Also pros spend all their time practicing  TBH I saw pros tweaking visual effects and closing DWM/HID on Windows 7.



agN said:


> I bet most of pro's have no idea what dpc latency and all of them are using bloated latest windows and they have no issues even with low avg fps because they are streaming.


Why would streaming caused low fps, they can use pci-e card for capturing, or 2nd pc.



agN said:


> when 3d apps automaticaly forces qpc timer when launched


Except QPC only provides accurate information about system's high-resolution timer facilities. It can't schedule events to happen. It only used to test accuracy of Multimedia timers - like HPET and TSC, because it can run in 1us intervals.

Ctrl+f: So called _high-resolution timer_ based on functions QueryPerformanceFrequency and QueryPerformanceCounter will not be taken into account because it can be used only to measure time intervals, and not to fire events in regular time intervals.
*Source:* Timers Tutorial



agN said:


> and YEAH exatly even color profile can affect input lag (mb because less colors = less power usage or some electricity related change)


What do you have with electricity all the time?  it is because it takes monitor different time to change pixels, or could affect graphical rendering. There is no information about color profiles, no idea how they exactly work! Besides they are used so colors render accurately on different types of devices.

Source: windows color profile for lowest input lag - Page 2 - Blur Busters Forums
Ctrl+f: While I know that ICC profiles can be lagless and not a problem at all

I discern no difference between daytime and night.



agN said:


> im saying that all software related tweaks and all this dpc latency hunting is PLA-CE-BO because is 100 % electricity related problem.


No it is not LOL. Software can take cpu cycles, or slow down system and what not. It is not easy. There is huge complexity, could be million things!!! It general advice to close any programs running on background... E.g. programs which use HW acceleration like browsers, if you turn this off cause immense input lag!!!



agN said:


> P.S Uz si to konecne priznaj ze tvoje tweaky funguju len docasne ale nikdy nejsi a ani si nebol 100 % spokojny a rovnake hovna budes muset riesit aj na windows 7 ci xp a jedina vec co spravia je ze mozno na slabsich setupoch dokazes realne nejaky ten snimok za sekundu pridat ale neni to ten feel jak hrat v roku 2005 ze?


Jsem docela spokejeny s input lagem ted. Ale porad hledam nove tweaky, hraju porad FPS a VR a uzivam si nizky input 

RTX 3070
2x8GB 3200 mhz cl16 g.skill trident z
mobo: asus z390-i gaming
i5-9600kf
PSU: RM650x 2018.

*HAHAHA this guy is so mad, he sent me like 20 private messages at the same time. OK I Am done...*


----------



## agN

empl said:


> *O M E G A L U L* flamewars here we go... I wasn't try to trigger you, but I Am annoyed by people, which say it is all placebo, because it is not! I linked various things, which shows how input lag is generated...
> 
> *FYI:*
> 
> I have new cables in flat, after reconstruction
> electricity should be grounded here AFAIK
> there is new circuit-breaker
> have PSU: RM650x 2018. and it is plugged into OV protected extension cable
> 
> I can disable BCLK spread spectrum and observe no problems!!! In opposite: it reduced input lag drastically! Ctrl+f: It can improve EMI-resistance but increase lag
> Link: Electrical issue(s) | "Floaty" mouse? - Blur Busters Forums
> 
> You don't understand DPC latency. First, yes DPC latency is not direct measure of input lag! It is delay of how fast are interrupts handled by OS. These could be serviced in nano-seconds, but they can get up even into us/ms range. CPU can't do anything when handling interrupts. It will slow down overall system responsiveness and cause deadlocks. It is like domino and snowball effect. One thing will slow another thing, which will slow another thing and that will slow another... Which will cause input lag in the end! Badly coded drivers can indeed cause input lag by generating high DPC latency and slowing system responsiveness! And some mobos have even 1ms DPC latency!
> 
> Computers are complex systems, why do you think, nothing affects input lag, except electricity and what not? There are only millions of things, which can affect it, some most important:
> 
> HW: CPU, RAM, GPU, MOBO, timers, MONITOR, MOUSE & KEYBOARD, cables
> SW: MOST IMPORTANT: kernel, game code, drivers code
> Important: processes/services: (DWM and HID is known to cause major input lag) which cause CPU usage, HW accel, spyware, cleartype, visual effects
> 
> Not it is not efd. I was searching for tweaks, because I had fun improving. And I can tell input lag. I was Supreme in CS GO. I Am used to Windows 7 and super low input lag monitor, Windows 10 feels like **** to me...
> 
> A lot of input lag comes also from Windows... It is complex system and there are many things, which can cause lag! It has to do literally zero with your HW specs...
> 
> Pros... They don't allow them to tweak PC completely, or even change BIOS setting. So they don't tweak, because they wouldn't have same consistency on their setup, when they are playing. + not everyone cares, or is into computer stuff. Also pros spend all their time practicing  TBH I saw pros tweaking visual effects and closing DWM/HID on Windows 7.
> 
> 
> Why would streaming caused low fps, they can use pci-e card for capturing, or 2nd pc.
> 
> 
> Except QPC only provides accurate information about system's high-resolution timer facilities. It can't schedule events to happen. It only used to test accuracy of Multimedia timers - like HPET and TSC, because it can run in 1us intervals.
> 
> Ctrl+f: So called _high-resolution timer_ based on functions QueryPerformanceFrequency and QueryPerformanceCounter will not be taken into account because it can be used only to measure time intervals, and not to fire events in regular time intervals.
> *Source:* Timers Tutorial
> 
> 
> What do you have with electricity all the time?  it is because it takes monitor different time to change pixels, or could affect graphical rendering. There is no information about color profiles, no idea how they exactly work! Besides they are used so colors render accurately on different types of devices.
> 
> I discern no difference between daytime and night.
> 
> 
> No it is not LOL. Software can take cpu cycles, or slow down system and what not. It is not easy. There is huge complexity, could be million things!!! It general advice to close any programs running on background... E.g. programs which use HW acceleration like browsers, if you turn this off cause immense input lag!!!
> 
> 
> Jsem docela spokejeny s input lagem ted. Ale porad hledam nove tweaky, hraju porad FPS a VR a uzivam si nizky input
> 
> RTX 3070
> 2x8GB 3200 mhz cl16 g.skill trident z
> mobo: asus z390-i gaming
> i5-9600kf
> PSU: RM650x 2018.


tl;dr ,


empl said:


> *O M E G A L U L* flamewars here we go... I wasn't trying to trigger you, but I Am annoyed by people, which say it is all placebo, because it is not! I linked various things, which shows how input lag is generated...
> 
> *FYI:*
> 
> I have new cables in flat, after reconstruction
> electricity should be grounded here AFAIK
> there is new circuit-breaker
> have PSU: RM650x 2018. and it is plugged into OV protected extension cable
> 
> I can disable BCLK spread spectrum and observe no problems!!! In opposite: it reduced input lag drastically! Ctrl+f: It can improve EMI-resistance but increase lag
> Link: Electrical issue(s) | "Floaty" mouse? - Blur Busters Forums
> 
> You don't understand DPC latency. First, yes DPC latency is not direct measure of input lag! It is delay of how fast are interrupts handled by OS. These could be serviced in nano-seconds, but they can get up even into us/ms range. CPU can't do anything when handling interrupts. It will slow down overall system responsiveness and cause deadlocks. It is like domino and snowball effect. One thing will slow another thing, which will slow another thing and that will slow another... Which will cause input lag in the end! Badly coded drivers can indeed cause input lag by generating high DPC latency and slowing system responsiveness! And some mobos have even 1ms DPC latency!
> 
> Computers are complex systems, why do you think, nothing affects input lag, except electricity and what not? There are only millions of things, which can affect it, some most important:
> 
> HW: CPU, RAM, GPU, MOBO, timers, MONITOR, MOUSE & KEYBOARD, cables
> SW: MOST IMPORTANT: kernel, game code, drivers code
> Important: processes/services: (DWM and HID is known to cause major input lag) which cause CPU usage, HW accel, spyware, cleartype, visual effects
> 
> Not it is not efd. I was searching for tweaks, because I had fun improving. And I can tell input lag. I was Supreme in CS GO. I Am used to Windows 7 and super low input lag monitor, Windows 10 feels like **** to me...
> 
> A lot of input lag comes also from Windows... It is complex system and there are many things, which can cause lag! It has to do literally zero with your HW specs...
> 
> Pros... They don't allow them to tweak PC completely, or even change BIOS setting. So they don't tweak, because they wouldn't have same consistency on their setup, when they are playing. + not everyone cares, or is into computer stuff. Also pros spend all their time practicing  TBH I saw pros tweaking visual effects and closing DWM/HID on Windows 7.
> 
> 
> Why would streaming caused low fps, they can use pci-e card for capturing, or 2nd pc.
> 
> 
> Except QPC only provides accurate information about system's high-resolution timer facilities. It can't schedule events to happen. It only used to test accuracy of Multimedia timers - like HPET and TSC, because it can run in 1us intervals.
> 
> Ctrl+f: So called _high-resolution timer_ based on functions QueryPerformanceFrequency and QueryPerformanceCounter will not be taken into account because it can be used only to measure time intervals, and not to fire events in regular time intervals.
> *Source:* Timers Tutorial
> 
> 
> What do you have with electricity all the time?  it is because it takes monitor different time to change pixels, or could affect graphical rendering. There is no information about color profiles, no idea how they exactly work! Besides they are used so colors render accurately on different types of devices.
> 
> Source: windows color profile for lowest input lag - Page 2 - Blur Busters Forums
> Ctrl+f: While I know that ICC profiles can be lagless and not a problem at all
> 
> I discern no difference between daytime and night.
> 
> 
> No it is not LOL. Software can take cpu cycles, or slow down system and what not. It is not easy. There is huge complexity, could be million things!!! It general advice to close any programs running on background... E.g. programs which use HW acceleration like browsers, if you turn this off cause immense input lag!!!
> 
> 
> Jsem docela spokejeny s input lagem ted. Ale porad hledam nove tweaky, hraju porad FPS a VR a uzivam si nizky input
> 
> RTX 3070
> 2x8GB 3200 mhz cl16 g.skill trident z
> mobo: asus z390-i gaming
> i5-9600kf
> PSU: RM650x 2018.


----------



## agN

Imagine using ****tons of registry tweaks to get perfect input on that high end rig. Lmao.


----------



## mouacyk

Man, imagine if you did ALL of these tweaks and are winning gaming competitions too. I would bow to that.


----------



## agN

mouacyk said:


> Man, imagine if you did ALL of these tweaks and are winning gaming competitions too. I would bow to that.


Actually i was using tweaks since 2014 starting with this guide, actually i did my own 1607,1709,1909,20h2, windows versions with ntlite that are all debloated and with fr33thy's registry tweaks, actually after some time pc went **** again with no change in fps and with very low dpc, also having temps like 40 c idle ( tweaked bios with very stable oc with bitsum highest performance ) AND actually guess what , it became ****ty and slow with no reason after some hours AGAIN. Now using a online ups at 60 hz ( 50 hz is standart in my country) did day and ****ing night difference and now iam running latest windows build , untouched just basic tweaks like disabling annoying xbox live or notifications and difference is HUGE. Just look how my system is responsive, how tabs are popping out instantly how smooth and precise is my cursor when i move mouse in horizontal way. 



 .


----------



## UltraMega

I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the uncertainty principal and quantum entanglement in how it relates to the optics within a mouse.

From what we know about the dual slit experiment that light can be either a wave or a fixed beam depending on how it's being observed and measured. Therefore you must keep an eye on your mouse when you need the best response time. This will ensure that the light/optical array the mouse uses to guide itself will be forced to collapse into a beam instead of a wave which will give you much better accuracy when aiming.


----------



## Darren9

UltraMega said:


> I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the uncertainty principal and quantum entanglement in how it relates to the optics within a mouse.
> 
> From what we know about the dual slit experiment that light can be either a wave or a fixed beam depending on how it's being observed and measured. Therefore you must keep an eye on your mouse when you need the best response time. This will ensure that the light/optical array the mouse uses to guide itself will be forced to collapse into a beam instead of a wave which will give you much better accuracy when aiming.


The only way you can look at a light wave is if it goes in your eye, which means it won't go in the mouse sensor, which will most definitely lag you out very, very badly.


----------



## UltraMega

Darren9 said:


> The only way you can look at a light wave is if it goes in your eye, which means it won't go in the mouse sensor, which will most definitely lag you out very, very badly.


It's not about the sensor being visible to your eyes, it's about the mouse being observed so that it collapses from a wave function into solid matter.

Don't quote me if you're not going to take this seriously.


----------



## x7007

Good sites for tweak, don't use them all of course, but there are many I didn't even know about. like I needed to enable the UDP Offload support because it was turned off!

Netsh int udp show global

netsh int udp set global enabled

UDP Global Parameters
----------------------------------------------
Receive Offload State : enabled


netsh winsock set autotuning on

Enable Auto-Tuning: Auto-tuning enables dynamic send buffering for overall better throughput.
netsh winsock set autotuning on



netsh int tcp show security

netsh int tcp set security mpp=disable




Disable Packet Coalescing: Packet Coalescing is used to group both random and multicast traffic for efficiency. 
This should be disabled for gaming and where lower latency is desired at the expense of a bit higher CPU utilization.

Set-NetOffloadGlobalSetting -PacketCoalescingFilter disabled











GitHub - Legend0fHell/SPI: Restart Internet Connection (SPI) is a script that restart the connection, and also optimizes your connection by lots of verified methods.


Restart Internet Connection (SPI) is a script that restart the connection, and also optimizes your connection by lots of verified methods. - GitHub - Legend0fHell/SPI: Restart Internet Connection (...




github.com





share gaming tweaks and chec my comprehensive list will blow your mind - Windows 10 Forums (tenforums.com) 
Tweaking - tweakradje (google.com)


----------



## Offler

x7007 said:


> Good sites for tweak, don't use them all of course, but there are many I didn't even know about. like I needed to enable the UDP Offload support because it was turned off!
> 
> Netsh int udp show global
> 
> netsh int udp set global enabled
> 
> UDP Global Parameters
> ----------------------------------------------
> Receive Offload State : enabled
> 
> 
> netsh winsock set autotuning on
> 
> Enable Auto-Tuning: Auto-tuning enables dynamic send buffering for overall better throughput.
> netsh winsock set autotuning on
> 
> 
> 
> netsh int tcp show security
> 
> netsh int tcp set security mpp=disable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disable Packet Coalescing: Packet Coalescing is used to group both random and multicast traffic for efficiency.
> This should be disabled for gaming and where lower latency is desired at the expense of a bit higher CPU utilization.
> 
> Set-NetOffloadGlobalSetting -PacketCoalescingFilter disabled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GitHub - Legend0fHell/SPI: Restart Internet Connection (SPI) is a script that restart the connection, and also optimizes your connection by lots of verified methods.
> 
> 
> Restart Internet Connection (SPI) is a script that restart the connection, and also optimizes your connection by lots of verified methods. - GitHub - Legend0fHell/SPI: Restart Internet Connection (...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> share gaming tweaks and chec my comprehensive list will blow your mind - Windows 10 Forums (tenforums.com)
> Tweaking - tweakradje (google.com)


On similar topic:








TCP_NODELAY & Nagle's Algorithm in 2019: Optimize TCP | ExtraHop


How to use TCP optimization, Nagle's Algorithm, QUICKACK, and more settings and algorithms to get better TCP performance on your network.




 www.extrahop.com




.

TCPnodelay and ACK frequency...


----------



## Brazzzabr

disabling onboard audio (HD AUDIO on my z490 rog BIOS) I dont have any sound at all. How to fix it:




r0ach said:


> *BIOS
> 
> UEFI vs Legacy boot* Legacy with CSM enabled tends to give me a more traditional mouse movement feel, while the times I've tested UEFI with CSM off, it gave me a more floaty mouse cursor type movement. This setting will probably be very subjective to a lot of people depending on what mouse, mouse settings, and surface you use, but my experience so far is that legacy tends to be better with a more classic mouse movement.
> 
> 1) *BCLK*: you want this to be 100.00, not 100 point random number. The closest you can get this to 100.00, the better. Many board makers have BCLK overclocking features built into their BIOS to try and cheat at benchmarks for hardware review sites. The Gigabyte z77 UD5H is one example of this. Leaving BCLK at AUTO, or manually setting it to 100.00 gets you an unwanted number like 100.1 on the UD5H. Manually setting it to 100.01 gets me 100.03. This is the closest to a flat 100 I can get on this board due to spread spectrum being a hidden setting. Disable spread spectrum to try and fix the last part if you can.
> 
> 2) *Memory Strap / Memory Multiplier*: Since this is an overclocking website, many people love to crank this number as high as it can go. The only problem is, high bandwidth and the resulting high latency is not conducive to a positive game play experience. The ram I have installed can do 2133mhz @ 11-11-11-28, but 1600mhz @ 7-8-7-24 provides a much better feeling mouse response. Some people will claim the difference is impossible to feel, but I assure you that it is, at least once you have eliminated all other sources of high latency in your system. This is also due to 133 vs 100 memory ratios. 100:100 with 1600mhz should obviously provide better results since it matches BCLK. If you cannot tell the difference between changing settings like this in mouse response, you most likely have other latency bottlenecks.
> 
> 3) *Turbo Boost/C-States/EIST/Thermal Monitor/Etc*: You want to disable as many of these as possible because they bring a lot of lag. On the Asus Z77 board, using a Steelseries firmware updater for a mouse seems to fail on Win8 if you disable "C3 State Report" and "C6 State Report". I didn't have this issue on the Gigabyte board, so it seems to vary by motherboard.
> 
> 4) *PWM Phase Control* - Set this to max phases. There's a noticeable difference between auto with power saving modes turned on and maximum phases on most motherboards.
> 
> 5) *Hyper Threading* - If you disable HPET, you most likely do not want to run any virtual cores.
> 
> 6) *Vcore* - Usually best to manually set Vcore since it seems to disable dynamic power features on some motherboards. Large difference between manual setting Vcore and auto on my Asus z77, but not as big on Gigabyte z77.
> 
> 7) *PEG Gen3 Slot Configuration*: I get better results by manually setting this instead of leaving it on auto. Set it to Gen3 if you have an Ivy Bridge or higher CPU + a PCI-E 3.0 GPU, otherwise, use Gen2.
> 
> 8) *Execute Disable Bit* I disable it just because the odds of any negative effects outweigh the security benefit. Traditionally a setting disabled by overclockers anyway.
> 
> 9) *Intel Virtualization Technology* - disabled for any gaming PC obviously. Virtualization and it's services tend to be resource heavy and no reason to have it on for a gaming PC.
> 
> 10) *1394 controller* - disable in order to reduce DPC latency unless you actually use it for some reason, probably 99% of people don't.
> 
> 11) *xHCI pre-boot driver / xHCI mode / xHCI hand-off* - Long story short, you want as few USB controllers active at once as possible, and I would say mice perform objectively worse on USB 3 controllers. Raising bandwidth on the same architecture tends to require more buffering and latency, so it's not hard to see why USB 3 would be worse for mice.
> 
> 12) *eHCI hand-off* - No reason to have this turned on for Win7 or higher. Win7 should natively support USB 2.0, so disable it.
> 
> 13) *On-board audio* - Disable. Enormous input lag.
> 
> 14) *On-board video* - Disable unless you actually use it.
> 
> 15) *HPET (High Precision Event Timer)* - disable to dramatically lower mouse lag and DPC latency
> 
> Explanation from software engineer for why TSC is superior and HPET should never be forced as the default clock except in a server environment:
> 
> Copy of email from a software engineer about TSC vs HPET:FWIW, I wanted to p - Pastebin.com
> 
> 16) *Secondary ATA controllers (Marvell, etc)* - disable to lower DPC latency
> 
> 17) *Secondary LAN* - disable to lower DPC latency
> 
> 18) *Legacy USB support* - usually have to leave this enabled in order to get back into the BIOS but sometimes will have better mouse response with it off. Varies highly by motherboard. Some boards will have out of control cursor movement with it off for some reason.
> 
> 19) *LLC and PLL Overvoltage* - I've tested these a lot, and although people overclocking like to utilize them, I've found they do strange things to mouse movement. Generally anything involved with ramping up voltage response on the motherboard tends to make it feel like you have less a dead zone on the mouse where it's easier to overshoot with the cursor. I prefer to have both of these options off and seemed to dislike the effect of PLL overvoltage more than high LLC. You need to set PLL overvoltage to off instead of auto, because auto usually means turned on.
> 
> *Asus Specific Section
> 
> Ai overclock tuner* - Manual
> *Asus Multicore Enhancement* - Disabled
> *Internal PLL Overvoltage* - Disabled
> *CPU bus sped : DRAM Speed Ratio* - 100:100
> *Memory Frequency* - 1600 mhz
> *EPU Power Saving Mode* - Disabled
> *Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology* - Disabled
> *Turbo Mode* - Disabled
> *CPU C1E* - Disabled
> *Package C State Support* - Disabled
> *C3 report* - as mentioned earlier, having C3 and C6 off on the Asus Z77 board causes the Steelseries firmware updater tool to fail on Win8. I'm not sure if it causes any other problems. Try with them on and off and see if you notice any issues. Maybe Steelseries just don't know how to code a firmware updater. You can probably turn them off without any other issues.
> *C6 report* - see above
> 
> *Digi+ Power control
> 
> CPU Load Line Calibration* - Regular
> *CPU Voltage Frequency* - Auto
> *VRM Spread Spectrum* - Disabled
> *CPU Power Phase Control* - Extreme
> *CPU Power Duty Control* - Extreme
> *CPU Power Response Control* - Regular
> *Dram Voltage Frequency* - Auto
> *Dram Power Phase Control* - Extreme
> 
> *CPU Voltage* - Manual (you have to manually input a voltage, mine is 1.07 for stock Ivy Bridge, don't leave it on auto, it makes a big difference on this board. You don't have to change any of the other voltages though besides maybe RAM)
> *CPU Spread Spectrum* - Disabled
> *BCLK Recovery* - Disabled
> *Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor* - Disabled
> *Hyper Threading* - Disabled
> *Execute Disable Bit* - Disabled
> *Intel Virtualization* - Disabled
> *S.M.A.R.T. Status Check* - Disabled
> *High Precision Timer* - Disabled
> *Intel Rapid Start* - Disabled
> *Intel Smart Connect* - Disabled
> *Initiate Graphic Adapter* - PCIE
> *iGPU Multi-Monitor* - Disabled
> *Render Standby* - Disabled
> *PCIEx16_1 Link Speed* - manually set to Gen3. If you have older than an Ivy Bridge CPU or a PCIE 2.0 video card, then manually set it to Gen2.
> *Intel USB 2.0 EHCI controller* - Enabled
> *Legacy USB Support* - for most motherboards this is better off, this board is kind of a mystery. It doesn't detect USB sticks properly after turning it off and might cause issues with mouse functionality as well. Seems to be a no win situation either way.
> *Legacy USB 3.0 support* - Disabled
> *Intel xHCI mode* - Disabled
> *EHCI Hand-off* - Disabled
> *HD Audio Controller* - Disabled
> *Bluetooth* - Disabled
> *Wi-fi controller* - Disabled
> *Marvell Storage* - Disabled
> *ASM1061 Storage Controller* - Disabled
> *Asmedia USB 3.0 controller* - Disabled
> *Overvoltage protection* - Disabled (it's under the monitor tab at bottom)
> *Wait for F1 if Error* - Disabled
> 
> *If you're using Win 8.1, here's the 22 step Windows 8.1 install guide with all services and settings included*
> 
> Gaming and mouse response BIOS optimization guide for...
> 
> *How to run or re-run Windows experience index in Win 8.1*
> 
> Why many people have horrible mouse movement and...
> 
> *De-crapifying Win 10 v 0.1 post*
> Gaming and mouse response BIOS optimization guide for...
> 
> *Software*
> 
> 1) *Intel Chipset Software* - Don't need to install it if your chipset already has drivers covered in Win8.1
> 
> 2) *Intel Management Engine Interface* - Don't install. Latency fest related to Vpro and other stuff most people don't use.
> 
> 3) *Lucid MVP* - don't install, latency fest, useless
> 
> 4) *Java* uninstall it and other malware with a resident memory footprint
> 
> 5) *Mouse software* uninstall and use on-board memory settings because 99% of mouse software is coded poorly and turns native DPI steps into interpolated while it's intalled / active, totally defeating the purpose of a gaming mouse in the first place.
> 
> 6) *Intel Rapid Storage* - I don't use RST because it has more latency than the default Microsoft one, although it probably performs better.
> 
> 7) *Intel Network Connections Ethernet Driver* - Don't install if your driver is already included in Win 8.1. If using Win7, then during the install screen, you want to uncheck "Proset" and "advanced teaming and VLAN" section.
> 
> The 19.3 driver also has huge problems on Z77 and maybe other boards. I would use an earlier version such as 19.0 instead. Version 19.3 + 19.5 causes constant 6000 DPC spikes and is probably the worst driver I've ever seen:
> 
> 
> 
> 9) *Adobe Flash* - much like Java, this program adds a large amount of system latency. Some people can't live without it though.
> 
> *Windows Components*
> 
> To get to these, you go to Control Panel > Programs and Features > "Turn Windows features on or Off"
> 
> *Windows 7 Section*
> 
> 1) *Windows Gadget Platform* - The first two items in this list give you a noticeable change on desktop mouse response. I'm not sure which one does the most since I disable both at the same time.
> 
> 2) *Tablet PC Components* - see above description
> 
> 3) *Uninstall Internet Exploder 8* - Updating IE in Win 7 gets you other Windows updates that you may or may not want like KB2670838.
> 
> *Windows 8 Section*
> 
> Uninstall the following until the menu looks like this:
> 
> 
> Internet Exploder 11 - first turn smooth scrolling off in options menu of IE, then under the about section, turn off automatic updating for it
> Print and document services
> SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support
> Windows Location Provider
> Windows Powershell 2.0
> Work folders client
> XPS services
> XPS viewer
> 
> 
> 
> *Services*
> 
> If your mouse doesn't feel snappy enough at this point, you should try disabling the following Windows services in this order:
> 
> 1) *Print Spooler* - I always disable this because Microsoft seems to give a lot of priority to what the printer wants
> 
> 2) *Windows Defender* - This one is hugely noticeable in Win8 and still pretty easy to notice in Win7. Go to the start menu, in the search box type "Windows Defender" and open it. Go to Tools/Options, then go to the last tab at the bottom and uncheck the box labeled "Use this Program". It turns off the service and sets the service to manual automatically.
> 
> 3) *Windows Search* - can get rid of it
> 
> 4) *Defrag* - type defrag in windows search box, turn off scheduled defrag
> 
> 5) *Windows Update* - Set service to manual instead of automatic and it will not start unless you need it instead of running 24/7
> 
> 6) *Human Interface Device Access* - This service runs things like volume Up/Down buttons on the keyboard, but it also has a large effect on mouse movement and makes one of the biggest differences on the list. Some people might prefer mouse movement with it on, but most will probably like it off. If you plug in a Kana v2 mouse with a PS/2 keyboard installed and this service set to manual, the service doesn't launch. It's mostly used for keyboards and some mice that have keyboard emulation for macros.
> 
> 7) *Superfetch* - Win 7 usually disables this by default if you're running an SSD after you let your system idle, but Win 8 keeps it running for TRIM scheduling. I would disable it in both Win7 and Win8 and then turn off superfetch and prefetch in the registry afterwards.
> 
> 8) *Time Broker* (Win8 only) - If you want to disable metro apps, you can't set the service to disabled using the service manager and have to do it with regedit:
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker
> 
> Change the "Start" key to 4 instead of 3 to disable it
> 
> *SSD Registry Settings*
> 
> If your boot drive is an SSD, first you need to disable the superfetch service, then change the following registry settings:
> 
> Hkey_Local_Machine > System > Current Control Set > Control > Session Manager > Memory Management > Prefetch Parameters
> 
> And change the following two settings to "0" instead of "3":
> 
> 1) EnablePrefetcher - unneeded for SSD
> 2) EnableSuperfetch - unneeded for SSD
> 
> *Keyboard* - A PS/2 keyboard with no USB devices plugged in except the mouse is the most optimal setup for mouse movement. I personally use brown switches with 40A-R o-rings. The travel distance is way too high without the o-rings. I don't like red switches that much because they're more prone to error and misclicks in both typing and gaming.
> 
> If forced to use USB, you don't want a keyboard with a 1000hz polling rate because USB controllers aren't good at handling multiple high polling rate devices at the same time, so get a 125hz one if using USB. You also don't want to have any other USB devices like gamepads or phones plugged in while you aren't using them either.
> 
> Some PS/2 and USB keyboards can cause issues though. The Steelseries 6gv2 I tested caused really bogged down cursor movement in both USB and PS/2 mode for some reason:
> 
> Never seen a keyboard cause swamp cursor till the...
> 
> *Sound*
> 
> 1) Set your bitrate to 16bit 44.1k, anything higher causes a huge hit to mouse response.
> 
> 2) Settings like CMSS, EAX, Crystallizer, etc, all need to be disabled
> 
> *Nvidia issues that cause lag*
> 
> Nvidia has something in device manager on Win8.1 called "Nvidia Virtual Audio" that's used when streaming to a mobile device. This is a lagfest that needs to be disabled. You probably want to disable the Nvidia HDMI audio in device manager as well under the sound section.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nvidia specific software
> 
> *Somewhere between the "miracle driver" and 344.11 drivers, the Nvidia input lag issues seem to have been greatly fixed. **
> 
> This is what your Nvidia control panel should look like. Anti aliasing does add latency, so I force it off. Texture filtering is going to occur regardless, so it doesn't really matter what you set your anisotropic filtering to.
> 
> 
> 
> Your Desktop scaling section of the control panel should be set to "Display - No scaling" like the following picture. I noticed a very annoying software issue when testing if there was any lag difference in my 570 reference card and 970 GTX. Cursor movement seems to go to crap after you change the scaling setting from whatever it was when the driver was first installed. So basically, on a fresh install, you want to install the Nvidia driver, go in and change the scaling tab to "Display - No Scaling", then uninstall the driver, reinstall it, and never touch that setting again. Sometimes just rebooting will fix it though.
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving scaling on anything else incurs a large amount of input lag, even in native resolution. "GPU - No scaling" is also much laggier than the "Display - No Scaling" setting. This is bad because if you plug in a Korean IPS panel, or any panel in with no hardware scaler, it forces you to use the extremely laggy "GPU - No Scaling" mode.
> 
> The only solution to this, is to use a custom .inf file and revert to a much older driver (267.59), before the scaling module was rewritten, then you can pick the "no scaling" option in the following picture for a lag free experience. You have to make sure that you don't install Windows update KB2670838 or Internet Explorer 10 (installs that update with it), or you will get blue screen page faults with older Nvidia + ATI drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> *Misc. Section
> 
> Chrome/Chromium* - tends to be overly GPU accelerated. Even after turning off hardware acceleration in settings, my GPU still goes to max 3d clocks while just browsing text pages on the internet. If you type "about:flags" in the browser, you can get to some GPU acceleration settings to disable, but my GPU won't go to idle clocks with Chromium unless I add "--disable-gpu" to the shortcut icon.
> 
> You will want to disable directwrite and accelerated 2d canvas in the about:flags menu to get rid of fuzzy text from crappy pixel aliasing.
> 
> *Steam* you will want to disable directwrite in the options menu of Steam because directwrite acceleration of text in browsers seems to bog down the cursor while they're open. Disable all the streaming options and other junk they're tossing in too.
> 
> *Firefox* disable hardware acceleration, automatic updates, crash reporter, etc, then go into the add-on section and disable automatic updates for the Cisco graphics plugin they've included for some unknown reason. I disable updates on it then turn it off myself.
> 
> *DPC Latency*
> 
> DPC Latency is mostly a measure of how ready, willing, and able a non-real time OS is to deal with requests from the user. It's not a measure of input lag, but will give you a good idea of possible problematic devices. You should get to around 28-32 if you can't disable HPET in the BIOS, or maybe as low as the screenshot from my system if you can:


----------



## Avalar

Brazzzabr said:


> disabling onboard audio (HD AUDIO on my z490 rog BIOS) I dont have any sound at all. How to fix it:


Yeah that's not something you can do unless you have a separate sound card to plug your audio devices into. Disabling onboard audio is literally turning your motherboard's audio ports off lol.


----------



## Brazzzabr

Avalar said:


> Yeah that's not something you can do unless you have a separate sound card to plug your audio devices into. Disabling onboard audio is literally turning your motherboard's audio ports off lol.


Thanks. im struggling here finding another way, im gona turn it back on now...lol


----------



## Avalar

Brazzzabr said:


> Thanks. im struggling here finding another way, im gona turn it back on now...lol


Modern motherboards do a well enough job that it's probably not even a concern anymore. Plus, you can't achieve the same level of OS responsiveness as Win 7, for example, in Win 10 anyway.


----------



## St1ckys

empl said:


> *FYI:*
> 
> I have new cables in flat, after reconstruction
> electricity should be grounded here AFAIK
> there is new circuit-breaker
> have PSU: RM650x 2018. and it is plugged into OV protected extension cable


Just because your elect. System is grounded, it does not mean that your grounding complies with the limit values. What in Germany e.g. is a must for a new installation.

The next is a circuit breaker has nothing to do with grounding and also not with the compensation of electrical errors. A miniature circuit breaker is there to switch off in the event of a short circuit or overvoltage in order to protect the line.

Overvoltage protection for the power supply unit does not compensate for any electrical errors. It is for overvoltage that can occur in the event of a lightning strike or when the network has reached the maximum wattage. 

Most electrical problems affect the distribution and not the house itself.

Here are a few things that you get totally wrong.


----------



## empl

St1ckys said:


> Just because your elect. System is grounded, it does not mean that your grounding complies with the limit values. What in Germany e.g. is a must for a new installation.
> 
> The next is a circuit breaker has nothing to do with grounding and also not with the compensation of electrical errors. A miniature circuit breaker is there to switch off in the event of a short circuit or overvoltage in order to protect the line.
> 
> Overvoltage protection for the power supply unit does not compensate for any electrical errors. It is for overvoltage that can occur in the event of a lightning strike or when the network has reached the maximum wattage.
> 
> Most electrical problems affect the distribution and not the house itself.
> 
> Here are a few things that you get totally wrong.


Good to know, I never cared for EMI, as I don't think I have EMI issues! I can disabled Spread Spectrum in BIOS and have no problems, or e.g. my cables are mess and I don't see any difference during day, or night etc. I don't experience any particular EMI issues I have seen.


----------



## x7007

I've found the real fix once and for all, screw all the other things. Ban me if it doesn't fix your issue, don't yell at me if you don't want to try, and don't tell me it's PLACEBO. I've fixed my AMD DESKTOP, Intel LAPTOP, Friend Intel I5-4xxx Desktop and a Friend Intel i7-9900K With 3080TI Desktop, So you can't say it's one time, two times, or three-time, it's 4 TIMES.


What you do first with INTEL is remove all the CHIPSET Crap it installed, I can't give you a screenshot right now, but the important ones are the

The second part is DISABLING SYSTEM KERNEL DEVICES that STILL RUNNING even if you don't have the DEVICE that needs them!
That's why it happens RANDOMLY, that's why it happens AFTER WINDOWS is UP, that's why it happens in SAFE MODE, they load up as KERNEL SYSTEM (0) STARTUP
And that's why it HAPPENS ON ALMOST EVERY COMPUTER I REPAIRED FOR ANYONE on FRESH OEM COMPUTER or Self Built









Specifying Driver Load Order - Windows drivers


Specifying Driver Load Order



docs.microsoft.com




On system startup, the operating system loader loads drivers of type SERVICE_BOOT_START before it transfers control to the kernel. These drivers are in memory when the kernel gets control.





Values for the Start Registry Entry - Windows 7 Tutorial


Table-1 lists the values (in decimal) for the registry entry Start. Boot drivers (those for which Start is 0).




sourcedaddy.com












File system filter load order - Windows drivers


Describes concepts related to loading a file system filter driver



docs.microsoft.com




*MANY OF THE DRIVERS THAT WE DON'T NEED ARE 0 and 1!!!

TO STOP WINDOWS FROM DOWNLOADING THE MICROSHIT DRIVERS OVER AND OVER

RESTART YOUR COMPUTER AFTER YOU FINISH > MAKE AS ALWAYS SYSTEM RESTORE OR BACKUP!!!

You need to download DDU Uninstaller Display Driver Uninstaller (DDU) V18.0.4.5 Released. - Wagnardsoft Forum

You need AUTORUNS To disable the Unneeded Drivers Autoruns for Windows - Windows Sysinternals

Windows Update MiniTool from here or here *








Download Windows Update MiniTool - MajorGeeks


Windows Update MiniTool is a free alternative to the standard Windows Update; it puts you in control of updates by allowing you to search, install, and block Windows updates as you please.



m.majorgeeks.com




*








Windows Update MiniTool download starting...


Download Windows Update MiniTool - Install or remove Windows Updates by using this straightforward application that also lets you hide some of the available updates




www.softpedia.com






DDU GUIDE*
FIRST DISABLE AUTO DRIVER DOWNLOAD FROM OPTIONS >









*Windows UpdateMiniTool*
Select AUTOMATIC UPDATES > NOTIFICATION MODE











SIMPLE TIP. You uninstall the unneeded driver for example Intel SMBUS or one of the PCIE Express *including* the Driver in the *SELECT BOX*. and then you can just choose install over the Microsoft driver. You know the drill when the specific select driver.

AFTER YOU UNINSTALL THE DEVICES DO NOT SCAN FOR NEW DEVICES!!!!!!! First, go to Windows Update MiniTool and SCAN FOR UPDATES. Select ALL it finds with INTEL Device and HIDE them. Then *disable* any device it finds has *QUESTION MARK*

1.Intel Management Engine
2.All the INTEL PCI EXPRESS and LPC.
3.INTEL SMBUS
4.DISABLE HPET - High Precision Event Timer

There are some Sensors and other System Devices, leave them be for now
Don't uninstall the Intel Power Plug-In device, it's a crucial system device.

*RESTART YOUR COMPUTER AFTER YOU FINISH > MAKE AS ALWAYS SYSTEM RESTORE OR BACKUP!!!

THIS IS THE INTEL LAPTOP SYSTEM CLEAN WITH PROBLEM FIXED







*














*DISABLE ALL UNDEEDED DEVICE YOU DON'T HAVE ON THE SYSTEM

AMD










INTEL*


----------



## Timecard

Export running driver list.
driverquery.exe -v /FO csv
sc.exe query type=all


----------



## x7007

Timecard said:


> Export running driver list.
> driverquery.exe -v /FO csv
> sc.exe query type=all


can you show the list you get? let's see this way also.


----------



## Timecard

Prob best if you do before/after and share. Im currently running in something near equivalent to safemode with networking.


----------



## Elrick

Avalar said:


> Modern motherboards do a well enough job that it's probably not even a concern anymore. Plus, you can't achieve the same level of OS responsiveness as Win 7, for example, in Win 10 anyway.


The hardware might be okay, but what about this latest disaster known as Windows 11?

How does that affect your whole "Gaming and Mouse response BIOS optimization for Today's PC Hardware?"

Windows 11 shall be pushed out like a rancid offshoot, yet nothing or no one here is concerned about that fact, why?


----------



## Timecard

x7007 said:


> can you show the list you get? let's see this way also.


Looks like SMBUS is a null driver so shouldn't be any change from that and may be the case for others you mentioned, HPET however does influence ACPI setting in the registry see below. Intel Management Engine however does load a DLL so you'll see a change from that.


----------



## BUFUMAN

watch out @ autruns, i disabled some intel driver and Raid driver.... system did not start....


----------



## x7007

Things I did and the mouse is way better now. I'll go through every single thing

Whatever happened took at least 3 days if the cable did matter.


First I moved the cables Power Cable, COAXIAL cable HDMI cable and some power connectors/PC Power underneath the table. and kept them where it worked the best with some amount of input lag and some delay but better than anything else.
Then I Disabled Services and Task Scheduler first because I saw the stupid Telemetry service took almost 10% of cpu so I said to it bye bye

Connected User Experiences and Telemetry

\Microsoft\Windows\Application Experience
Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser
ProgramDataUpdater

\Microsoft\Windows\Customer Experience Improvement Program
Consolidator
UsbCeip

I ran the WINSAT commands *winsat formal* / *winsat prepop*

Then I had my CPU Voltage at 1675, so I gave it a bit more 1750 and then 1875 OFFSET. Pretty sure it works the same with 1750 and 18750 but just in case.
I also changed the Memory Speed disabling X.M.P and then the compute didn't boot resetting all the bios settings. so I load up one of the profiles and still restart without X.M.P with higher Voltage with Secure Boot on USER MODE, not on SETUP mode. I change all the FANS to PWM and Manual or Full Speed. XHCI Disable USB Legacy Disable HPET Disabled. Saved, it boots up then I change back to X.M.P

I disabled the 5GHZ WIFI of the TV OLED LG CX
and I am on PC INPUT not that it matters much

I made new Calibration to the Ambivision Pro Camera.

I may have moved the mouse cable holder a bit

I connected the VR USB C to the GPU I might have moved a couple of cables and the Ferrite than on the HDMI moved a bit down because it's not tight/zie on the cable.

I disabled the GPU Zero-RPM option and gave it some low speed at lower C.


My friend seeing some improvement in his game in COD Warzone, he killed almost the same as me and pretty much had real fun. so my guess is he felt it.

For my friend, we only did Uninstall a bunch of crap Intel drivers and software, Samsung magician, and many other things that were installed.
Changed the Autoruns I already mentioned.

*At the moment I did it to 4 people including myself with my laptop it's 5. and each one of them felt some improvement if it's even a 20-40%. *



I also found out the HDMI Cable has a big affect on the mouse movement. that's for sure, it makes the mouse jump all over with the input lag and the smoothing when you start/stop
TO Go even further I uninstalled the and drivers only leaving the GPIO system devices installed because they are very important.

I'm THIS CLOSE TO understanding the issue fully.


----------



## x7007

I've found something else. now I understand something about windows.

We have the Windows Timer Resolution which is MAX 1ms or 0.9996 or 0.9997. When windows at the start is starting with the MAX because it has usage loading things but then it goes IDLE which save power going standby mode MIN 15.625 or 15.626. THIS CHANGE is affecting the mouse in a matter of VERY BAD WAY. because I tested it 5 times and with a friend which has 1ms Intel 9900K and me AMD 1950x with 0.9996 HPET Disabled in bios and windows bcdedit. If you boot windows and it at any change goes to 15.625 the mouse SCREWED. if you set with app like Intelligent Standby List Cleaner from Wanguard.net and set it at AUTORUN to be 1.0 or 0.05, then the mouse will work perfectly fine only AFTER BOOT (RESTART) if it goes 15.625 you will need to restart so it will never go that number. it's not just the mouse but the feel of the windows and no weird missing keywords and WEIRD BUGS.

My friend had an Upgrade to Windows 11 and the registry was there at default. I remember I didn't have mine exist. he is not one who does registry tweaks.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability
TimeStampInterval -> 1

If anything related to this and this only then it must have other affects on the OS and devices that we can improve by 100%

I've found many more tweaks that relate to this
including one to check is

*usefirmwarepcisettings* [ *yes* | *no* ]
Enables or disables the use of BIOS-configured peripheral component interconnect (PCI) resources.


*Force contiguous memory allocation in the DirectX Graphics Kernel.*

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers

DpiMapIommuContiguous -> 1



*Decrease mouse and keyboard buffer sizes.*

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\mouclass\Parameters

MouseDataQueueSize -> 16 decimal

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdclass\Parameters

KeyboardDataQueueSize -> 16 decimal



*Set a reliable 1 ms (minimum) timestamp. Only for untweaked systems (disabling it with 0 is recommended on tweaked systems).*

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability

TimeStampInterval -> 1





Not all TWEAKS are good, but this amount of tweaks are possible

Windows10GamingFocus/win10debloatandgamingtweaks.ps1 at master · DaddyMadu/Windows10GamingFocus · GitHub
Melody's Ultra Tweaks Pack - Basic Tweaks (google.com)
GitHub - DaddyMadu/Windows10GamingFocus: This is the Ultimate Windows 10 Debloat and Gaming Tweaks Optimization based on ChrisTitusTechScript which is based on multiple debloat scripts and gists from github.
Steam Community :: Guide :: Windows 10 Optimization And Tweak Guide For GAMING





*For now I'm testing with 1 Timer Resolution and TimeStampInterval -> 0*


----------



## Timecard

TimeStampInterval is in seconds not milliseconds. This setting allows the system to detect the time of unexpected shutdowns by writing the current time to disk on a schedule controlled by the Timestamp Interval.
If anything enabled and low value adds processing at the scheduled interval based on the purpose as it causes extra cycles and disk writes.

Timer resolution affects all processes globally but in newer windows (win 10 2004 and newer) it has less effect because microsoft rewrote the kernel so that each process uses close to 15ms unless that specific application requested lower otherwise older windows would adopt the timer res of the one with the lowest value.

_Prior to Windows 10, version 2004, this function affects a global Windows setting. For all processes Windows uses the lowest value (that is, highest resolution) requested by any process. Starting with Windows 10, version 2004, this function no longer affects global timer resolution. For processes which call this function, Windows uses the lowest value (that is, highest resolution) requested by any process. For processes which have not called this function, Windows does not guarantee a higher resolution than the default system resolution.

Reference: timeBeginPeriod function (timeapi.h) - Win32 apps_

Other reading for you








Windows Timer Resolution: Megawatts Wasted


The default timer resolution on Windows is 15.6 ms – a timer interrupt 64 times a second. When programs increase the timer frequency they increase power consumption and harm battery life. They also…




randomascii.wordpress.com












Windows Timer Resolution: The Great Rule Change


The behavior of the Windows scheduler changed significantly in Windows 10 2004 (aka, the April 2020 version of Windows), in a way that will break a few applications, and there appears to have been …




randomascii.wordpress.com





*Mousedataqueuesize/kbdataqueuesize discussion* 








MouseDataQueueSize Registry Tweak To Reduce Input Delay...


This is one of those old tweaks that hasn't been talked about much lately but never read any concrete evidence if it works or not. For those that are interested... Open Regedit Goto: Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\mouclass\Parameters Create Dword 32bit value...




www.overclock.net


----------



## x7007

I've found out that disabling the Game Bar functions from the registry made the mouse clear of issues. I and my friend had better movement and the ice feeling disappeared.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore]
"GameDVR_FSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000002
"GameDVR_FSEBehavior"=dword:00000002
"GameDVR_HonorUserFSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000001
"GameDVR_DXGIHonorFSEWindowsCompatible"=dword:00000001

and add BCDedit /set disabledynamicTick Yes

Leave HPET Enabled in the Device manager, it has affects if it's disabled I checked.

EDIT: I've found out disabling HPET from the device manager when Disabled in bios is better. I also found out that the DPC Latency is affected a lot when HPET is not disabled in the device manager. even more Uninstall the device and scan for new hardware devices then it will say it doesn't have resources. I tested it on my laptop Asus G73 old model which can't disable HPET in the bios. and DPC was never jumped beyond 1000. with HPET it would jump over 3000.




Something is really F Up with windows since Windows 7 after all the updates. Windows 10 with all the security patches made it even worse. so it's clearly something with the hardware and the windows. Many people have issues with HPET enabled, some don't, the total is having issues with HPET. even with super new computer I9 9900K
it a Current timer 1.0ms which doesn't really matter and still having the worse mouse ice feeling, faster movement but not accurate at all. I've done all the checks, I read all over the internet. There are EMI issues ofc that you fix with the anti-EMI, but Windows is no expectation and it has issues for every single existing computer.

EDIT : the mouse is extremely accurate now with the following.

Disable HPET From bios
Disable HPET Device manager

bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
bcdedit /ues disabledynamictick no

Disable the GameDVR in the registry and in the Windows Toggle
Enable GameMode Windows Toggle

The current Timer is 0.4882ms instead 0.4996












EDIT : I checked it with a very heavy unoptimized game like JUST CAUSE 4 and I saw a 10 Fps boost on randomly fps changing the place that it could be 60 or even 50 with the same settings I always use. This was with HPET Disabled in bios but Device manager Enabled.

Now it was steady 69-80fps





EDIT : on my laptop I just checked now and the mouse is bloody accurate without High dpc latency. its 970m so it will always have high dpc with nvidia driver.
HPET enabled BIOS
HPET Enabled Windows Device Manager
































EDIT : Also I've found someone who complained about the same thing with DisabledynamicTick YES, it makes the mouse faster. but it depends on the other commands also. so this is what needs investigating.
Question - Disabledynamictick wierd mouse movement | Tom's Hardware Forum (tomshardware.com)


----------



## empl

I would wonder, if ticking that checkbox in DDU would stop automatic driver updates!!! I tried like 30 things and nothing ever worked, also superusers on Windows 10 didn't know about anything else... I think DDU adds to the registry: the first command from below...

I Am currently on metered connection to stop automatic Windows Updates and driver updates, but it doesn't work for the latter. Still new drivers are installed from time to time, some automatically and some only when I check for updates! Also Razer wants to install Synapse on my computer from time to time LOL!

I use these commands (doesn't work nevertheless) now I am not sure if this is correct format in case you want to update your registry:

[KEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\DriverSearching]
"SearchOrderConfig"=dword:00000000

PS: very useful program for checking installed drivers (including their dates) - InstalledDriversList it is from Nirsoft I think...


----------



## TrebleTA

Sm bus is used for the RGB controller on new boards.


----------



## Timecard

I guess add this to your tweak collection


*HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Device Installer*
Under that key, add a DWORD-32 value named *DisableCoInstallers* and set it to *1*.


----------



## Zyther

Is there a updated version of this for windows 11


----------



## x7007

Rechecking


----------



## UltraMega

I hate to shatter the illusion but I'm fairly certain the OP of this thread intended it to be a spoof thread. Mouse latency optimization is not something anyone needs to worry about. Unless you have a very unusual issue, there is nothing to do to your computer to make your mouse respond faster short of getting a better mouse or higher refresh rate screen. 

People taking this thread seriously are trapped in the web of placebo effects that the OP established.


----------



## Timecard

UltraMega said:


> People taking this thread seriously are trapped in the web of placebo effects that the OP established.


Some things are questionable (haven't seen evidence for) but there's quite a few that are easily measurable or are well documented by companies such as Intel/Microsoft. In regards to peripherals such as your "gaming" monitor and much like your keyboard and mice all have a wide range of latency response times.

Even though the mouse/keyboard uses 1000hz or the monitor advertises 360hz refresh but they still manage to have higher than expected latency depending on many variables such as your monitors overdrive (examples in rtings monitor tests, Response Time tables on a per monitor) or even monitors with lower refresh rates. Luckily there's people who out there researching and helping raising the bar and standards for what's possible by showing the misconceptions with "gaming" peripherals.

See links below as a starting point
https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tests/control/latency
https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/tests/latency
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag
https://blurbusters.com/


----------



## UltraMega

That's pretty much what I said... Beyond a better mouse or faster screen there are no mouse tweaks.


----------



## Timecard

You can definitely fine tune windows software, games and drivers to improve performance. Getting the right hardware and setting it up properly is probably being the quickest way to get immediate benefits as we both suggested.


----------



## UltraMega

Timecard said:


> You can definitely fine tune windows software, games and drivers to improve performance. Getting the right hardware and setting it up properly is probably being the quickest way to get immediate benefits as we both suggested.


I think you've drank the coolaid my friend. Short of fixing a software issue that shouldn't be there in the first place, there's really nothing to improve mouse latency specifically. Any latency improvements are just latency improvements. They're not mouse specific.


----------



## Avalar

I just don't bother to optimize past a few trivial things on Windows 10, cuz I know I can't achieve the same level of polish as Windows 7 anyway. With thousands of hours sunk in gaming with my current setup, I'm certainly used to it now. No amount of mouse tweaking in Windows is gonna mean I can do something now which I couldn't do before.


----------



## Offler

Timecard said:


> See links below as a starting point
> https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tests/control/latency
> https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/tests/latency
> https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag
> https://blurbusters.com/


Sorry to break your illusion but most of it is marketing.

Some years ago i read info on Blurbusters... they correctly pointed out that some timings provided by monitor manufacturers are fake and do not reflect GTG timing, but they incorrectly linked display refresh rate with pixel GTG and blurriness of image.

In most cases info in this thread is placebo or if someone is selling it to you, its snake-oil.

You can find good tools here for drivers and system profiling though, but most people did not bother to use LatencyMon and check whether the changes had any measurable effect.


----------



## benbenkr

Every few years I come into this thread to read the comedic gold this thread offers. I don't think there's a more hilarious thread on the internet anywhere.


----------



## UltraMega

I always figured the OP very cleverly set this thread up to trap people who don't know enough to tell that it's fake but since OCN banned him a while back for some unknown reason I think it's probably best to break the spell. Sorry to anyone who was fooled. You were just here as entertainment.


----------



## Offler

UltraMega said:


> I always figured the OP very cleverly set this thread up to trap people who don't know enough to tell that it's fake but since OCN banned him a while back for some unknown reason I think it's probably best to break the spell. Sorry to anyone who was fooled. You were just here as entertainment.


Nope, he was serious. You could get a some bump in performance by using recomendations he posted, simply because he told people to turn off some of hardware which had bad driver implementations back in 2012.

And as matter of fact HPET vs TSC vs RTC is a quite complicated topic related to effective multithreading.

But once you get into "it feels smoother" territory, you are forever lost


----------



## UltraMega

Offler said:


> Nope, he was serious. You could get a some bump in performance by using recomendations he posted, simply because he told people to turn off some of hardware which had bad driver implementations back in 2012.
> 
> And as matter of fact HPET vs TSC vs RTC is a quite complicated topic related to effective multithreading.
> 
> But once you get into "it feels smoother" territory, you are forever lost


Idk, iirc he had several spoof threads. Perhaps there were a few grains of truth in them but I think his intent was to troll people. Guess we'll never know.


----------



## x7007

Can anyone check if this crap **** of a thing fix your issue? I noticed that after I changed the registry I had a redetecting new device sound and the mouse just worked perfect and I hope this will fix one of my harddisk always freezes and it visible in games and even explorer.exe I hear the hardisk is waking up even when every single option of APM is disabled. I tried CrystakDiskInfo and anything else. I think that was the thing that fixed my issue also before I did an in place upgrade and screwed the registry once again.


Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStorAC\Parameters - EnableAPM
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\storahci\Parameters - EnableAPM

AMD driver has also an HDD Parking setting :

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\amdsbs\Settings\CAM - EnableHDDParking

Even the intel iastore driver ini has and idle powermanagement option - EnableIdlePowerManagement.


*Disable the EnableHDDParking*


----------



## empl

x7007 said:


> Can anyone check if this crap **** of a thing fix your issue? I noticed that after I changed the registry I had a redetecting new device sound and the mouse just worked perfect and I hope this will fix one of my harddisk always freezes and it visible in games and even explorer.exe I hear the hardisk is waking up even when every single option of APM is disabled. I tried CrystakDiskInfo and anything else. I think that was the thing that fixed my issue also before I did an in place upgrade and screwed the registry once again.
> 
> 
> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\iaStorAC\Parameters - EnableAPM
> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\storahci\Parameters - EnableAPM
> 
> AMD driver has also an HDD Parking setting :
> 
> Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\amdsbs\Settings\CAM - EnableHDDParking
> 
> Even the intel iastore driver ini has and idle powermanagement option - EnableIdlePowerManagement.
> 
> 
> *Disable the EnableHDDParking*


What do you mean, you shouldn't allow harddisk to sleep anyways, it wears it down. In case you don't know - there is option for it in Control Panel/Powerplan setting. Also you should have games on SSD anyways, they are not that expensive nowadays. Ah 480GB SSD pleb only xDD



UltraMega said:


> I hate to shatter the illusion but I'm fairly certain the OP of this thread intended it to be a spoof thread. Mouse latency optimization is not something anyone needs to worry about. Unless you have a very unusual issue, there is nothing to do to your computer to make your mouse respond faster short of getting a better mouse or higher refresh rate screen.
> 
> People taking this thread seriously are trapped in the web of placebo effects that the OP established.


That is not absolutely true! If you think it doesn't help, I don't understand why you care... You are just not sensitive enough. On blurbuster's input lag AB test = I was able to tell difference (in total input lag) down to 6ms. I can tell smallest changes in input lag, as I Am very sensitive person: What is Sensual Overexcitability? Also you can tell easily difference between 500hz and 1000hz polling on your mice, which is only 1ms variation.

There are still a lot of hardware and software components along the way (it is not good to have bottlenecks, while other components are very responsive):

You can set in USB driver to buffer less packets to improve latency, *it is a very discernible change!*
Or if you use 8khz polling mice: you absolutely need to change timer resolution to 0.5ms, otherwise your 8khz polling rate won't be utilized and be inconsistent! Which you can notice on 360hz monitors more easily...
Also you need to get rid of DPC for reason above... Even if you not use 8khz, it is apparent when you reduce DPC latency, mouse much more consistent and smooth! I got rid to DPC latency <100us and 6us interrupt to user process latency and I saw even better. It is actually huge difference, between like 1ms DPC latency ASUS mobo, or even 250 average us DPC latency!
not installing crappy drivers matters a lot
disabling VRM spread spectrum - huge difference
BIOS setting matters the most TBH for input lag
timers like HPET matter quite a bit, for accuracy also

Now you imagine, you have like 1000 bottlenecks, 50us here and there, overall it stacks and is discernible and again, you don't want to have UBER mouse, but bottlenecks along the way, which make it inconsistent...

Try disable something like Clear Type and smooth edges of fonts and see for yourself how big difference it makes... Or switch to Win8DpiScaling in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop and you can see how much difference it makes - *it returns mouse closer to Windows 7! Or disable Fullscreen Optimizations *with .reg file and don't forget to check disable FSO in compat tab of a shortcut: Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStor - Pastebin.com


----------



## UltraMega

empl said:


> What do you mean, you shouldn't allow harddisk to sleep anyways, it wears it down. In case you don't know - there is option for it in Control Panel/Powerplan setting. Also you should have games on SSD anyways, they are not that expensive nowadays. Ah 480GB SSD pleb only xDD
> 
> 
> That is not absolutely true! If you think it doesn't help, I don't understand why you care... You are just not sensitive enough. On blurbuster's input lag AB test = I was able to tell difference (in total input lag) down to 6ms. I can tell smallest changes in input lag, as I Am very sensitive person: What is Sensual Overexcitability? Also you can tell easily difference between 500hz and 1000hz polling on your mice, which is only 1ms variation.
> 
> There are still a lot of hardware and software components along the way (it is not good to have bottlenecks, while other components are very responsive):
> 
> You can set in USB driver to buffer less packets to improve latency, *it is a very discernible change!*
> Or if you use 8khz polling mice: you absolutely need to change timer resolution to 0.5ms, otherwise your 8khz polling rate won't be utilized and be inconsistent! Which you can notice on 360hz monitors more easily...
> Also you need to get rid of DPC for reason above... Even if you not use 8khz, it is apparent when you reduce DPC latency, mouse much more consistent and smooth! I got rid to DPC latency <100us and 6us interrupt to user process latency and I saw even better. It is actually huge difference, between like 1ms DPC latency ASUS mobo, or even 250 average us DPC latency!
> not installing crappy drivers matters a lot
> disabling VRM spread spectrum - huge difference
> BIOS setting matters the most TBH for input lag
> timers like HPET matter quite a bit, for accuracy also
> 
> Now you imagine, you have like 1000 bottlenecks, 50us here and there, overall it stacks and is discernible and again, you don't want to have UBER mouse, but bottlenecks along the way, which make it inconsistent...
> 
> Try disable something like Clear Type and smooth edges of fonts and see for yourself how big difference it makes... Or switch to Win8DpiScaling in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop and you can see how much difference it makes - *it returns mouse closer to Windows 7! Or disable Fullscreen Optimizations *with .reg file and don't forget to check disable FSO in compat tab of a shortcut: Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStor - Pastebin.com


Must be some good Kool aid.


----------



## x7007

empl said:


> What do you mean, you shouldn't allow harddisk to sleep anyways, it wears it down. In case you don't know - there is option for it in Control Panel/Powerplan setting. Also you should have games on SSD anyways, they are not that expensive nowadays. Ah 480GB SSD pleb only xDD
> 
> 
> That is not absolutely true! If you think it doesn't help, I don't understand why you care... You are just not sensitive enough. On blurbuster's input lag AB test = I was able to tell difference (in total input lag) down to 6ms. I can tell smallest changes in input lag, as I Am very sensitive person: What is Sensual Overexcitability? Also you can tell easily difference between 500hz and 1000hz polling on your mice, which is only 1ms variation.
> 
> There are still a lot of hardware and software components along the way (it is not good to have bottlenecks, while other components are very responsive):
> 
> You can set in USB driver to buffer less packets to improve latency, *it is a very discernible change!*
> Or if you use 8khz polling mice: you absolutely need to change timer resolution to 0.5ms, otherwise your 8khz polling rate won't be utilized and be inconsistent! Which you can notice on 360hz monitors more easily...
> Also you need to get rid of DPC for reason above... Even if you not use 8khz, it is apparent when you reduce DPC latency, mouse much more consistent and smooth! I got rid to DPC latency <100us and 6us interrupt to user process latency and I saw even better. It is actually huge difference, between like 1ms DPC latency ASUS mobo, or even 250 average us DPC latency!
> not installing crappy drivers matters a lot
> disabling VRM spread spectrum - huge difference
> BIOS setting matters the most TBH for input lag
> timers like HPET matter quite a bit, for accuracy also
> 
> Now you imagine, you have like 1000 bottlenecks, 50us here and there, overall it stacks and is discernible and again, you don't want to have UBER mouse, but bottlenecks along the way, which make it inconsistent...
> 
> Try disable something like Clear Type and smooth edges of fonts and see for yourself how big difference it makes... Or switch to Win8DpiScaling in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop and you can see how much difference it makes - *it returns mouse closer to Windows 7! Or disable Fullscreen Optimizations *with .reg file and don't forget to check disable FSO in compat tab of a shortcut: Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStor - Pastebin.com


I know, but as a person who have a lot of movies and get a lot of games I use 5TB and 6TB harddisk. What I am saying is for some reason my Segate got screwed because of this thing and it is too late because the health of that drive is 28% with 88 reallocated sectors, it was 18 just before 6 months. Anway I always heard the harddisk randomly wake up even in games or even just by accessing it through explorer/my computer. so let's see if this will fix it. Second thing, how sure you are about the USB buffer registry? Which one do you use for keyboard 1000hz and mouse 1000hz?


----------



## empl

UltraMega said:


> Must be some good Kool aid.


OK you are trolling... Also BTW lower input lag smooths out your turning in games too! I realized why VR looks better on 56 fps with some reprojection, than 144hz monitor! Because you turn more smoothly and not doing jerk moves (also sometimes you don't even max your polling rate, because you don't move mouse as quickly in comparison to VR controllers) and it is also pretty low latency matter overall! I cannot otherwise explain it, even 56 fps VR looks better to me than 144hz monitor, 90hz VR = amazing! It can also insert input to interpolated frames, that's why reprojection still feels great to a point...



x7007 said:


> I know, but as a person who have a lot of movies and get a lot of games I use 5TB and 6TB harddisk. What I am saying is for some reason my Segate got screwed because of this thing and it is too late because the health of that drive is 28% with 88 reallocated sectors, it was 18 just before 6 months. Anway I always heard the harddisk randomly wake up even in games or even just by accessing it through explorer/my computer. so let's see if this will fix it. Second thing, how sure you are about the USB buffer registry? Which one do you use for keyboard 1000hz and mouse 1000hz?


I lost one disk for the first time too, apparently defrag can increase its longetivity with error checks (commands /b /v, if I remember correctly) from time to time. Yeah also frequent reads/writes aren't good for disk, it will worn down sooner, or later. They usually are made to die 1 after warranty... I would use SSD on your place! 1TB cost like 120-150$. And BTW, if you turn off disk sleep in control panels, I don't think it can go to sleep in games, but I don't know for sure about this one! Never heard about it!

Yes it reduces latency a lot, because USB controller is buffering packets from mouse - I guess it is from old Windows XP times, when computers suffered with DPC latency over 1ms... So it can read packets from buffer more consistently and not tax CPU with interrupts... It can greatly reduce your input lag, however I wouldn't go under 20 (as it makes mouse inconsistent) I Am currently on 25, which feels more consistent! Depends also in combination with your timer resolution window and polling rate, I use 1ms, because it is more consistent with 500hz polling rate and most games set this by default!

I forget totally about keyboard, best thing is to test it and to see. Maybe forget keyboard? As USB3 drivers are crap in terms of latency, perhaps you don't want to overload it and I don't care about keyboard that much (but you also want keyboard mouse latency synced if possible). But I played CS GO on 1000hz keyboard, 500hz mouse in Supreme no problem...

I use 1000hz keyboard and 500hz mouse still. 500hz feels more consistent than 1000hz. I try to reduce lag elsewhere... But if I had 360hz monitor I would go to 8khz probably, as microstutters are visible there... 800DPI/500hz is generally the best for a mouse, or people play like 1000hz 600-700 DPI... Except like CS GO, where 800 DPI is 400 DPI. Otherwise I always used 800 everywhere...

I also recommend to set throttlingindex to 8xf and enable interrupt moderation and set it to medium 0 - lowers greatly DPC and interrupt to process latency! This was very good tweak, smooths out mouse movement pretty much!

Also ChiefBlurBuster said to use different USB chipset for keyboard and mice, if you go one place down vertically, which is usually other group of USB ports (also can have other colors). I tried it tho and it made mouse crappy - depends maybe...

Also did I tell you about r0ach bug? This helped a lot with mouse movement: How to clean install a new mouse + 2 Windows USB bugs...

It didn't matter for me, if 2 mouse HID entries under keyboard were on top, or on bottom. Just so they were together!

Also sometimes allow device go to sleep turns on automatically for mouse and keyboard min. maybe also for HID devices, which cause lag...


----------



## UltraMega

Definitely not trolling, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there are die hard believers.


----------



## x7007

empl said:


> OK you are trolling... Also BTW lower input lag smooths out your turning in games too! I realized why VR looks better on 56 fps with some reprojection, than 144hz monitor! Because you turn more smoothly and not doing jerk moves (also sometimes you don't even max your polling rate, because you don't move mouse as quickly in comparison to VR controllers) and it is also pretty low latency matter overall! I cannot otherwise explain it, even 56 fps VR looks better to me than 144hz monitor, 90hz VR = amazing! It can also insert input to interpolated frames, that's why reprojection still feels great to a point...
> 
> 
> I lost one disk for the first time too, apparently defrag can increase its longetivity with error checks (commands /b /v, if I remember correctly) from time to time. Yeah also frequent reads/writes aren't good for disk, it will worn down sooner, or later. They usually are made to die 1 after warranty... I would use SSD on your place! 1TB cost like 120-150$. And BTW, if you turn off disk sleep in control panels, I don't think it can go to sleep in games, but I don't know for sure about this one! Never heard about it!
> 
> Yes it reduces latency a lot, because USB controller is buffering packets from mouse - I guess it is from old Windows XP times, when computers suffered with DPC latency over 1ms... So it can read packets from buffer more consistently and not tax CPU with interrupts... It can greatly reduce your input lag, however I wouldn't go under 20 (as it makes mouse inconsistent) I Am currently on 25, which feels more consistent! Depends also in combination with your timer resolution window and polling rate, I use 1ms, because it is more consistent with 500hz polling rate and most games set this by default!
> 
> I forget totally about keyboard, best thing is to test it and to see. Maybe forget keyboard? As USB3 drivers are crap in terms of latency, perhaps you don't want to overload it and I don't care about keyboard that much (but you also want keyboard mouse latency synced if possible). But I played CS GO on 1000hz keyboard, 500hz mouse in Supreme no problem...
> 
> I use 1000hz keyboard and 500hz mouse still. 500hz feels more consistent than 1000hz. I try to reduce lag elsewhere... But if I had 360hz monitor I would go to 8khz probably, as microstutters are visible there... 800DPI/500hz is generally the best for a mouse, or people play like 1000hz 600-700 DPI... Except like CS GO, where 800 DPI is 400 DPI. Otherwise I always used 800 everywhere...
> 
> I also recommend to set throttlingindex to 8xf and enable interrupt moderation and set it to medium 0 - lowers greatly DPC and interrupt to process latency! This was very good tweak, smooths out mouse movement pretty much!
> 
> Also ChiefBlurBuster said to use different USB chipset for keyboard and mice, if you go one place down vertically, which is usually other group of USB ports (also can have other colors). I tried it tho and it made mouse crappy - depends maybe...
> 
> Also did I tell you about r0ach bug? This helped a lot with mouse movement: How to clean install a new mouse + 2 Windows USB bugs...
> 
> It didn't matter for me, if 2 mouse HID entries under keyboard were on top, or on bottom. Just so they were together!
> 
> Also sometimes allow device go to sleep turns on automatically for mouse and keyboard min. maybe also for HID devices, which cause lag...


and what do you say about
usefirmwarepcisettings No

When I did that on my laptop I had duplicate devices, when I uninstalled for example some of the grey keyboards like you said with the r0ach guide it redetected my external keyboard and the mouse somehow had a different movement
the question is maybe the usefirmwarepcisettings No is what make sure the bug won't happen at all?

a for the network throttlingindex I use disabled : ffffffff


----------



## pox02

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\Profile\Events\{54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00}\{0DA965DC-8FCF-4c0b-8EFE-8DD5E7BC959A}\{7E01ADEF-81E6-4e1b-8075-56F373584694}

High Performance Burst 

play with TimeLimitInSeconds 2/6/12 see which one u like

and one value that change my gaming is timestampinterval to 0

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability

DWORD TimeStampInterval 0


----------



## x7007

pox02 said:


> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\Profile\Events\{54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00}\{0DA965DC-8FCF-4c0b-8EFE-8DD5E7BC959A}\{7E01ADEF-81E6-4e1b-8075-56F373584694}
> 
> High Performance Burst
> 
> play with TimeLimitInSeconds 2/6/12 see which one u like
> 
> and one value that change my gaming is timestampinterval to 0
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability
> 
> DWORD TimeStampInterval 0


Nice! the TimeStampsInterval 0, it was 1 on mine, I don't think I changed it or maybe I did, I don't remember. but after a restart, the mouse was super responsive.

What does the first one do?
High-Performance Burst


Also some information about TimeStampsInterval The Heartbeat of Windows


----------



## pox02

x7007 said:


> Nice! the TimeStampsInterval 0, it was 1 on mine, I don't think I changed it or maybe I did, I don't remember. but after a restart, the mouse was super responsive.
> 
> What does the first one do?
> High-Performance Burst
> 
> 
> Also some information about TimeStampsInterval The Heartbeat of Windows











BurstMem: A high-performance burst buffer system for scientific applications


The growth of computing power on large-scale systems requires commensurate high-bandwidth I/O systems. Many parallel file systems are designed to provide fast sustainable I/O in response to applications' soaring requirements. To meet this need, a novel system is imperative to temporarily buffer...



ieeexplore.ieee.org






https://www.cs.fsu.edu/~yuw/pubs/2014-BigData-Yu.pdf


----------



## x7007

pox02 said:


> BurstMem: A high-performance burst buffer system for scientific applications
> 
> 
> The growth of computing power on large-scale systems requires commensurate high-bandwidth I/O systems. Many parallel file systems are designed to provide fast sustainable I/O in response to applications' soaring requirements. To meet this need, a novel system is imperative to temporarily buffer...
> 
> 
> 
> ieeexplore.ieee.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cs.fsu.edu/~yuw/pubs/2014-BigData-Yu.pdf


Yes, I saw this website when I searched for it, but it didn't give much information to really understand what it do to me.
It's default 6 for me, which one should I get first, higher or lower?


----------



## pox02

x7007 said:


> Yes, I saw this website when I searched for it, but it didn't give much information to really understand what it do to me.
> It's default 6 for me, which one should I get first, higher or lower?


Try 2 or 12 see if mouse movement improve 

another key to improve mouse input

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e100

"Attributes"=dword:00000002

sets Maximum Processor Frequency to max

set ValueMax ffffffffffff(unlimited)

ValueMin 0
ValueIncrement 1


----------



## pox02

REM Makes maximum CPU speeds available, by default they're not
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFBOOSTMODE 2
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFBOOSTMODE1 2
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFINCTHRESHOLD 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFINCTHRESHOLD1 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFINCTIME 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFINCTIME1 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFDECTHRESHOLD 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFDECTHRESHOLD1 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor LATENCYHINTPERF 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor LATENCYHINTPERF1 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFAUTONOMOUS 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFDUTYCYCLING 0

REM Sets overall throttles to maximum
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PROCTHROTTLEMAX 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PROCTHROTTLEMAX1 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PROCTHROTTLEMIN 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PROCTHROTTLEMIN1 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor HETEROCLASS1INITIALPERF 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor HETEROCLASS0FLOORPERF 100

REM Turns off CPU core controls, tells OS to just use them all.
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPMAXCORES 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPMINCORES 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor DISTRIBUTEUTIL 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPDISTRIBUTION 0

REM Minimizes CPU spinup time, and maximizes spindown time, just in case
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPINCREASETIME 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPDECREASETIME 100
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPHEADROOM 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor CPCONCURRENCY 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor LATENCYHINTUNPARK 0
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor LATENCYHINTUNPARK1 0

REM Sets energy savings preference to zero
powercfg -setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_processor PERFEPP 0

REM Commits all above changes to current power plan
powercfg -setactive scheme_current

remove power saving in power plan


----------



## pox02

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\kernel

DWORD InterruptSteeringDisabled to 1 same feeling on 7 if anyone like the windows 7 input feeling


----------



## empl

UltraMega said:


> Definitely not trolling, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there are die hard believers.


No you are either a holiday player, or you cannot tell, because your system is hogged with latency, or you use high DPI... But you are clearly made your own mind, so nothing will convince you...

Pro players were disabling HID service and DWM, along with visual effects on windows 7, because it makes huge difference! Also disabling cleartype makes mouse much more snappier, otherwise it feels laggy when doing small adjustments...



x7007 said:


> When I did that on my laptop I had duplicate devices, when I uninstalled for example some of the grey keyboards like you said with the r0ach guide it redetected my external keyboard and the mouse somehow had a different movement
> the question is maybe the usefirmwarepcisettings No is what make sure the bug won't happen at all?


I saw this tweak on melody site, didn't test it yet. But what does firmwarepcie setting has to do with USB at all?

For the network: interrupt moderation should be enabled and set to medium, otherwise it will hog CPU with DPC latency, it didn't increase my ping, so I enabled it... It is probably insignificant for ping.



pox02 said:


> another key to improve mouse input
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e100
> 
> "Attributes"=dword:00000002
> 
> sets Maximum Processor Frequency to max
> 
> set ValueMax ffffffffffff(unlimited)
> 
> ValueMin 0
> ValueIncrement 1


I was over powerplan CMD commands - didn't find anything useful besides setting for CPU freq. min/max to 100% and disabling idle saver (which cause CPU operate constantly at c0 state = 100% CPU usage) - it is in my guide in link below... All you should need to do: is to unhide and switch to Ultimate Performance plan and disable idle saver (that is for CPU setting only). You can easily use Process lasso to switch between balanced and UL power plan! It can even detect steam games and it is free (with limitation of some features).



pox02 said:


> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\Profile\Events\{54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00}\{0DA965DC-8FCF-4c0b-8EFE-8DD5E7BC959A}\{7E01ADEF-81E6-4e1b-8075-56F373584694}
> 
> High Performance Burst
> 
> play with TimeLimitInSeconds 2/6/12 see which one u like
> 
> and one value that change my gaming is timestampinterval to 0
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability
> 
> DWORD TimeStampInterval 0


Interesting, that's pretty advanced stuff and lots of changes! Maybe I Am gonna try that later...

What does timestampinterval do?


----------



## pox02

empl said:


> No you are either a holiday player, or you cannot tell, because your system is hogged with latency, or you use high DPI... But you are clearly made your own mind, so nothing will convince you...
> 
> Pro players were disabling HID service and DWM, along with visual effects on windows 7, because it makes huge difference! Also disabling cleartype makes mouse much more snappier, otherwise it feels laggy when doing small adjustments...
> 
> 
> I saw this tweak on melody site, didn't test it yet. But what does firmwarepcie setting has to do with USB at all?
> 
> For the network: interrupt moderation should be enabled and set to medium, otherwise it will hog CPU with DPC latency, it didn't increase my ping, so I enabled it... It is probably insignificant for ping.
> 
> 
> I was over powerplan CMD commands - didn't find anything useful besides setting for CPU freq. min/max to 100% and disabling idle saver (which cause CPU operate constantly at c0 state = 100% CPU usage) - it is in my guide in link below... All you should need to do: is to unhide and switch to Ultimate Performance plan and disable idle saver (that is for CPU setting only). You can easily use Process lasso to switch between balanced and UL power plan! It can even detect steam games and it is free (with limitation of some features).
> 
> 
> Interesting, that's pretty advanced stuff and lots of changes! Maybe I Am gonna try that later...
> 
> What does timestampinterval do?


detect the time of unexpected shutdowns by writing the current time to disk on a schedule controlled by the Timestamp Interval 





Enable Persistent Time Stamp


This policy setting allows the system to detect the time of unexpected shutdowns by writing the current time to disk on a schedule controlled by the Timestamp Interval.



admx.help


----------



## pox02

Force Enable Intel TSX






Transactional Synchronization Extensions - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







Code:


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\kernel]
"DisableTsx"=dword:00000000
"EnableTsx"=dword:00000001


----------



## empl

pox02 said:


> Force Enable Intel TSX


Timestampinterval=0 I couldn't tell a difference, it is supposed to occur only 1x per 60 seconds. This change doesn't seem too important to affect anything, but who knows...

You may want to paste it all to 1 long post, this thread is already too long


----------



## pox02

empl said:


> Timestampinterval=0 I couldn't tell a difference, it is supposed to occur only 1x per 60 seconds. This change doesn't seem too important to affect anything, but who knows...
> 
> You may want to paste it all to 1 long post, this thread is already too long


seems ur system not tweaked enough so u cant tell the difference but i can feel the responsive of this u combined this with High-Performance Burst and the mouse movement on another level


----------



## empl

pox02 said:


> seems ur system not tweaked enough so u cant tell the difference but i can feel the responsive of this u combined this with High-Performance Burst and the mouse movement on another level


I don't think my system is not tweaked enough, but that could depend... in some case share gaming tweaks and chec my comprehensive list will blow your mind - Windows 10 Help Forums

I Am not saying you are wrong, but it is relative - every system is different! I Am just reporting to you what I saw...

I could tell perhaps tell some small difference using High Performance Burst, in which case - it feels best on 6 (default).



http://imgur.com/a/L3AqT1b


It is ordered (top to bottom) from 2 to 12, imgur didn't save numbers in description for some reason. I tried yet with TimeStampInterval=0 and got even lower result for CPU (3074) in case with High Performance Burst set to 12. I don't think this is fluctuation in result, as 3DMark is extremely precise, I can run a test multiple times and have barely 5, 7, 8 deviation... No in terms of 10ths... Note: that is for overall score (not CPU score only) but it did not show improvement at any case!

BTW any reason you set High Performance Burst in ControlSet001 it is for (last known configuration), it shouldn't matter, you should set it probably in ControlSet. https://stackoverflow.com/questions...t-differ-from-controlset001-and-controlset002


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## pox02

empl said:


> I don't think my system is not tweaked enough, but that could depend... in some case share gaming tweaks and chec my comprehensive list will blow your mind - Windows 10 Help Forums
> 
> I Am not saying you are wrong, but it is relative - every system is different! I Am just reporting to you what I saw...
> 
> I could tell perhaps tell some small difference using High Performance Burst, in which case - it feels best on 6 (default).
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/L3AqT1b
> 
> 
> It is ordered (top to bottom) from 2 to 12, imgur didn't save numbers in description for some reason. I tried yet with TimeStampInterval=0 and got even lower result for CPU (3074) in case with High Performance Burst set to 12. I don't think this is fluctuation in result, as 3DMark is extremely precise, I can run a test multiple times and have barely 5, 7, 8 deviation... No in terms of 10ths... Note: that is for overall score (not CPU score only) but it did not show improvement at any case!
> 
> BTW any reason you set High Performance Burst in ControlSet001 it is for (last known configuration), it shouldn't matter, you should set it probably in ControlSet. https://stackoverflow.com/questions...t-differ-from-controlset001-and-controlset002


u right u can set in controlset hmm i dont think its something to do with the performance its more like mouse feel so exchange of frames to get better feeling something like that


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## empl

pox02 said:


> u right u can set in controlset hmm i dont think its something to do with the performance its more like mouse feel so exchange of frames to get better feeling something like that


I/O could also affect latency of mouse packets accessible to a program, as if program can perform I/O operations more quickly. It is programmed in a game how program retrieves mouse packets and it also buffers them! But I don't know enough to know, if this would affect this process in any significant rate, as mouse packets don't take almost any bandwidth! I didn't see any difference! Although in Process Lasso you can set I/O priority to a program, it does something to a mouse feel (so it is possible) however normal priority feels best for me!

You linked this: BurstMem: A high-performance burst buffer system for scientific applications
Which talks about improving I/O to applications, so one would expect it have effect on performance. Besides this is meant for large-scale systems, no idea if there are any benefits of using this on PC...


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## pox02

empl said:


> I/O could also affect latency of mouse packets accessible to a program, as if program can perform I/O operations more quickly. It is programmed in a game how program retrieves mouse packets and it also buffers them! But I don't know enough to know, if this would affect this process in any significant rate, as mouse packets don't take almost any bandwidth! I didn't see any difference! Although in Process Lasso you can set I/O priority to a program, it does something to a mouse feel (so it is possible) however normal priority feels best for me!
> 
> You linked this: BurstMem: A high-performance burst buffer system for scientific applications
> Which talks about improving I/O to applications, so one would expect it have effect on performance. Besides this is meant for large-scale systems, no idea if there are any benefits of using this on PC...


i all ways disable core 0 for every game i play could be thats why its so quick


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## x7007

To make this short

I think these gives best mouse movement, I test in Marvel's Avengers and I shoot there at the start with the girl in the Avengers booths and it was so easy, it was so accurate. I only use at the time the Win8dpiScaling 1.

Then I made the TimeStampInterval 0 instead 1 and I tested Iron Harvest and the control was so easy compared to before. so it does make a big big different. I also played Heroes of the Storm with the win8dpiscaling 1 and it was so much faster.

On the Laptop I tested all of them and the mouse is very fast and precise. without the DisableDynamicTick Yes it wasn't fast, so it improved it.


Also maybe Bcdedit /set disabledynamicTick Yes

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability

DWORD TimeStampInterval 0 

switch to Win8DpiScaling 1 in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\kernel

DWORD InterruptSteeringDisabled to 1


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## x7007

@pox02 did you notice if there is any input lag because of Global C State ENABLED/AUTO or AMD Cool&Quiet Enabled/AUTO?


the settings I said above made my mouse just perfect, it feels like Windows 7 with G703 Laser gaming mouse on a Glass mouse pad. it's so smooth

I'm back to my performance on Real-Time Strategy and FPS

I think that's the settings I've made long time ago on my perfect windows 10 that I fixed the issue and then I did an In-place upgrade on both my Desktop and Laptop and it screwed everything back to default..... I know I changed these settings. because it was perfect 24/7 and it always felt when windows loaded it was perfect at the start until windows started doing something and this is what it was doing.


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## x7007

*Something SUPER IMPORTANT*

Like @pox02 that he put CORE0 outside from the core used for gaming and his mouse improved a lot! it's what I noticed when messing with my network adapter also!

I have Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx 2x25Gb ports that I connect to a switch using FiberOptic for 10Gbps network Lan connection.

So yesterday I played all day in Iron Harvest like I said, then now after I slept and turned on the TV suddenly the mouse had smoothing, back on that in a second. So I had a SUPER WEIRD issue with Steam server using CHROME that videos wouldn't buffer more than 10 sec and I couldn't forward or back forward without it just stuck and not moving with connection with Developer mode saying time out or something I forgot or disconnected. so I checked Edge and it worked fine all the time, Chrome incognito also stuck, no addon also, reinstall chrome also. So I disable my network adapter and re enable and it worked for couple min and then stop again, I had QOS disable so I enabled it and it worked but once again it stopped working until now. so I checked what could be on the network adapter settings which could be a lot. I messed with the RSS which I had maximum RSS Processor 8 and Queue 8. I have SMT enabled AMD 1950x 16core 16 threads.

I messed with the numbers but nothing actually fixed the issue or the mouse. I changed only 1 setting called RSS BASE PROCESSOR NUMBER and it INSTANTLY made the mouse like it was yesterday! it's freaking unbeliveble. now I'll check how to fix the Steam weird issue and understand what the hell is going on. I think our problem is something with the Windows Network even if you don't actually use network or connected to the internet !!!!! something weird in windows and network adapter+drivers and settings.













I posted this also on the Desync issue thread

I think the affects of the WIFI are the ones we need to be careful. what we did not have 10-20 years ago with the 1996 computers? WIFI! what we did have? DSL and RJ45 connection with MODEM and FAX. so where did all the noise/EMI/EMF come from? it's from the WIFI and cellular! but WIFI have more affect because it uses more broad channels because of our neighbor's WIFI and other AP that we can see on our phone! what we should do is lower the Antenna signal by 50% at least so it won't go to anyone else in our area! Also, even when you lower your WIFI antenna signal it can take a day or so until it stabilizes. when you get mixed of channels from 1-13 and Dual Channels from many AP and including the 5GHz you are going to have a bad day! You don't have to get FardayCage if you can't "hear" the other channels from others! because what actually happens as we know WIFI RECIEVE ALL the DATA from the AIR but ONLY from yours it ACCEPTS! so you get all the junk data from ALL AP in your AREA!! I wish I could get into everyone router and lower it to 50%!!!

What I did is add the registry @pox02 said includes the , adding bcdedit /set disabledynamicTick.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Reliability

DWORD TimeStampInterval 0

switch to Win8DpiScaling 1 in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop

I didn't add yet
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\kernel

DWORD InterruptSteeringDisabled to 1

Did you notice anything different with that @pox02 ?

Lowered my router 2.4 and 5Ghz antenna signal strength from 17 to 5
Moving my Switch/Router a bit far from the strip power they are connected to.

My mouse has been amazing for 3 days straight since then


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## Offler

Check for tool called PowerSettingsExplorer.

Most of the registry settings change is way too random, while tools like that one will give some insight what the registry does.


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## kretz1xD

Timecard said:


> Some things are questionable (haven't seen evidence for) but there's quite a few that are easily measurable or are well documented by companies such as Intel/Microsoft. In regards to peripherals such as your "gaming" monitor and much like your keyboard and mice all have a wide range of latency response times.
> 
> Even though the mouse/keyboard uses 1000hz or the monitor advertises 360hz refresh but they still manage to have higher than expected latency depending on many variables such as your monitors overdrive (examples in rtings monitor tests, Response Time tables on a per monitor) or even monitors with lower refresh rates. Luckily there's people who out there researching and helping raising the bar and standards for what's possible by showing the misconceptions with "gaming" peripherals.
> 
> See links below as a starting point
> https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tests/control/latency
> https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/tests/latency
> https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag
> https://blurbusters.com/


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## panosxidis

i test all these and i feel placebo effect on my system


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## Offler

panosxidis said:


> i test all these and i feel placebo effect on my system


Most of the "general" advices in this thread are. I took some of those, tested and nothing happenned.

Then there are some which when used in a correct manner can decrease system response time. Its like... you had 36fps as minimum in one game, now you will have 40. You would barely noticed that.

Or you had score 3600 in Cinebench R20, now its constantly 4000, or 95th percentile of 3d game is not 18ms, but 16ms.


TLR: some of those settings do work but there is little to no way to "see" or "notice" difference. So there is a lot of space for snakeoil.


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## panosxidis

yeap i dont know why many sayingggg o my god this tweak is so good!!!!i dont see nothing for me the best tweak is unbloat your system,optimized your bios,power saving disable and thats it


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## xxpenguinxx

This thread is like the flat earthers of input lag. A few tweaks might work in specific scenarios but that's it.

I can confirm disabling HPET might help. For me, having it enabled in Windows 7 and in the bios causes really low fps in some games, like going from 145fps average, to 80fps often dropping below 60fps. It might only affect Windows 7 and old hardware. I haven't tested anything newer than Westmere EP / X58 for Intel, and 990X chipset for AMD.

Also with Windows 7, Nvidia GPUs use Line-Based instead of Message Signaled-Based Interrupts (MSI), probably for compatibility. This causes high DPC latency spikes. I noticed this when using multiple audio interfaces. DPC would spike over 600 even when idle, and game audio would occasionally crackle under high load. Switching the GPU to MSI fixed it.


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## Offler

Ok, lets get to some advice which actually might work:

Its generally recommended to turn off all the offloading features of a network card. You can check that with command:
netsh int ip show offload

Then go to the device properties of a NIC card and disable all offloading features...

The reason why this recommendations works is because most onboard NICs dont have enabled Bus Mastering. So attempts to offload some tasks from CPU will require additional requests from NIC to CPU to perform memory operations.

BUT when Bus Mastering is enabled for NIC, then you can keep offloading features enabled. With bus mastering, NIC will be capable to manage all memory requests on its own, and the beneficial effects it originally should have on CPU performance will be present.


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## Timecard

Microsoft recommends keeping them on for low latency, any good links on Bus Mastering?

Performance Tuning Network Adapters | Microsoft Docs - Performance tuning for low-latency packet processing

_Enable static offloads. For example, enable the UDP Checksums, TCP Checksums, and Send Large Offload (LSO) settings._


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## Offler

Timecard said:


> Microsoft recommends keeping them on for low latency, any good links on Bus Mastering?
> 
> Performance Tuning Network Adapters | Microsoft Docs - Performance tuning for low-latency packet processing
> 
> _Enable static offloads. For example, enable the UDP Checksums, TCP Checksums, and Send Large Offload (LSO) settings._


just this:





Bus mastering - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












What is Bus Mastering? - Definition from Techopedia


This definition explains the meaning of Bus Mastering and why it matters.




www.techopedia.com





Basically if you enable static offloads, its true that those activities will be performed by NIC's chip, however without Bus Mastering, every read/write to memory associated with NIC has to be managed by Bus Arbiter (usually CPU). And it appears that most onboard NICs may have this feature disabled. It can be checked by HWinfo.

For that reason it really can be beneficial to disable them and let CPU do all the work - in the end it will be less operations.

If you have Bus Mastering enabled, the HW acceleration of this feature will be complete.


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## RamenRider

None of them work unless you disable DWM first.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1097238671063953409


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## Offler

Yeah, DWM is using Vsync, or Gsync/freesync if enabled in Display settings.

It also adds +1 Video Buffer to the pre-existing amount.

But none of these adds significant input lag. However its pointless to explain to certain people:

how memory pointers work (no copying from one memory region just "pointing" to it)
that you cannot see more FPS than the display is capable to render.

Enabled Vsync can cause issues only if its forced to Double Buffering, and the real cause is Buffer Overflow in whole render chain, not the Vsync itself. There are various solutions to this issue:

a) Triple buffering
A Must for any normal Vsync implementation

b) Frame Limiter
Very popular among consoles, and properly optimized games.

c) Gsync or Freesync
Which both work in situation where buffer might run low on frames.

These methods are in many scenarios used together in order to avoid buffer overflow or underrun.

Nvidia was fully aware of all these solutions for more than 15 years, yet they chose to bring Double Buffer Overrun as a standard "default" scenario when they started to advertise Gsync.


In most cases its good thing to use Exclusive fullscreen. Then you see "just the engine".


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## xxpenguinxx

Vsync, Freesync, Gsync, HIJKLMNOPsync, they all cause problems, except maybe nsync. They don't add input lag when listed to.

Technically you can see more fps than your monitor can render in the form of screen tearing. Some people hate it but I rather see part of a new frame than not see it at all.


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## diute

Offler said:


> just this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bus mastering - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is Bus Mastering? - Definition from Techopedia
> 
> 
> This definition explains the meaning of Bus Mastering and why it matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techopedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically if you enable static offloads, its true that those activities will be performed by NIC's chip, however without Bus Mastering, every read/write to memory associated with NIC has to be managed by Bus Arbiter (usually CPU). And it appears that most onboard NICs may have this feature disabled. It can be checked by HWinfo.
> 
> For that reason it really can be beneficial to disable them and let CPU do all the work - in the end it will be less operations.
> 
> If you have Bus Mastering enabled, the HW acceleration of this feature will be complete.


Where exactly in hwinfo can i see, if bus mastering is enabled or disabled?


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## Offler

diute said:


> Where exactly in hwinfo can i see, if bus mastering is enabled or disabled?


Bus > PCI Bus and run it down until you find you active NIC card. Then check "Features" on the right side, Bus Mastering is either disabled or enabled.


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## Craftyman

Offler said:


> Bus > PCI Bus and run it down until you find you active NIC card. Then check "Features" on the right side, Bus Mastering is either disabled or enabled.


What if I don't find any NIC card?









Could it be this Intel CSME?


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## panosxidis

better is bus mastering disable or enabled?and how to close?


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## Baikio

Hey guys, i dont know which boot to choose between UEFI and UEFI + CSM.

Both seem really good but on UEFI it really feel like i have some sort of acceleration on my mouse.

I have 400 DPI.


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## pox02

RamenRider said:


> None of them work unless you disable DWM first.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1097238671063953409



if u want really way to disable dwm check this tool









GitHub - spddl/disableDWMactivitys


Contribute to spddl/disableDWMactivitys development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





other way is hook dwmcore.dll and patching waitforvsync function









GitHub - storycraft/no-vsync-dwm: Disable dwm forced vsync


Disable dwm forced vsync. Contribute to storycraft/no-vsync-dwm development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


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## DAOWAce

Just use Latent Sync (Kaldaien's improvement to Scanline Sync).



Special K: New "Latent Sync" Limiter [Better than RTSS Scanline Sync] - Blur Busters Forums



There's so many tweaks over the net that just aren't used anymore or do some harm or are a tradeoff with _something_. Take an example: A big one where disabling FSO dramatically improves games. Yeah, so does flip model, without the need to disable FSO and performs identically to FSE. It was finally added natively as an option to Windows.. in 11, an abomination I refuse to install. Instead, Kaldaien (creator of the above tool), has had it working for Windows 8+ users for years. NVIDIA reflex as well, *in any game*.

Windows has gotten too complicated with too many versions and revisions of versions (win10 especially). So many people, myself included, don't even know what's possible or not.


----------



## foxcurve

DAOWAce said:


> Just use Latent Sync (Kaldaien's improvement to Scanline Sync).
> 
> 
> 
> Special K: New "Latent Sync" Limiter [Better than RTSS Scanline Sync] - Blur Busters Forums
> 
> 
> 
> There's so many tweaks over the net that just aren't used anymore or do some harm or are a tradeoff with _something_. Take an example: A big one where disabling FSO dramatically improves games. Yeah, so does flip model, without the need to disable FSO and performs identically to FSE. It was finally added natively as an option to Windows.. in 11, an abomination I refuse to install. Instead, Kaldaien (creator of the above tool), has had it working for Windows 8+ users for years. NVIDIA reflex as well, *in any game*.
> 
> Windows has gotten too complicated with too many versions and revisions of versions (win10 especially). So many people, myself included, don't even know what's possible or not.


What exactly do you mean by flip model? I've never head of it before and I'm failing to find anything conclusive.


----------



## Timecard

GitHub - GameTechDev/PresentMon: Tool for collection and processing of ETW events related to frame presentation on Windows.


Tool for collection and processing of ETW events related to frame presentation on Windows. - GitHub - GameTechDev/PresentMon: Tool for collection and processing of ETW events related to frame prese...




github.com





The following values are used in the PresentMode column:


PresentModeDescriptionHardware: Legacy FlipIndicates the app took ownership of the screen, and is swapping the displayed surface every frame.Hardware: Legacy Copy to front bufferIndicates the app took ownership of the screen, and is copying new contents to an already-on-screen surface every frame.Hardware: Independent FlipIndicates the app does not have ownership of the screen, but is still swapping the displayed surface every frame.Composed: FlipIndicates the app is windowed, is using "flip model" swapchains, and is sharing its surfaces with DWM to be composed.Hardware Composed: Independent FlipIndicates the app is using "flip model" swapchains, and has been granted a hardware overlay plane.Composed: Copy with GPU GDIIndicates the app is windowed, and is copying contents into a surface that's shared with GDI.Composed: Copy with CPU GDIIndicates the app is windowed, and is copying contents into a dedicated DirectX window surface. GDI contents are stored separately, and are composed together with DX contents by the DWM.









Demystifying Fullscreen Optimizations
 

We wrote this article to explain the difference between Fullscreen Exclusive and Fullscreen Optimizations.




devblogs.microsoft.com












Updates in Graphics and Gaming


Graphics and gaming updates that help significantly improve latency, performance and the overall gaming experience.




devblogs.microsoft.com


----------

