# Zowie ZA 11/12/13 Mouse



## Sencha

So it seems Zowie are releasing a new mouse in 3 sizes.

Press release
http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=63










http://www.maxfps.se/zowie
Quote:


> ZOWIE FK1 and FK2 mice have been very popular among fans of ambidextrous shapes, but ZOWIE understands that nothing is perfect. This includes the shape of mice. ZA series comes as an answer for the gamers who want to rest their palms on the mouse and those looking for a mouse which is easier to lift with a claw grip. In stark contrast with the FK series, the new ZA series has increased height on the back of the mouse to cater for people who like ambidextrous mice but want to be able to rest their palm comfortably on top of their mouse.


*Ino's Write up & Video Review*
Loads of info, impressions and pics in this fine thread by Ino.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1554361/zowie-za11-pictures-thoughts-and-facts-by-ino




[/quote]


----------



## pgabor

I love my FK1, and other than the click latency, my only problem with it was the lack off "ass". These mice will fix those two problems (I'm pretty sure that after that the new EC series fixed the click latency problem, these will have low latency as well). These seem like the perfect mice for me.

More pictures of the ZA12:




DAT ASS


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> the new ZA series has increased height on the back of the mouse


----------



## boogdud

Hmmm, not sure about the position of those side buttons, looks to me like avior 7000 levels of accidentally clicking the far side.


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Hmmm, not sure about the position of those side buttons, looks to me like avior 7000 levels of accidentally clicking the far side.


Only one side active at the time, you can set it which one.


----------



## Oeshon

I am using a FK1 at the moment and I also would prefer a bigger back. I think this will also fix another problem, the increase in height might make the mouse even more comfortable for claw grip and make it less likely to hit the right side buttons accidentally if you have a big hand, which is something that does happen to me.

So yeah looking forward to this.


----------



## Oeshon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pgabor*
> 
> Only one side active at the time, you can set it which one.


It is not about the side buttons being active but more about the annoyance when you accidentally click them. It would be better if Zowie included a small plastic cap that you could put on the side of the side buttons that you don't use, this way the whole side of the mouse if free for your pinky and ring finger.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pgabor*
> 
> Only one side active at the time, you can set it which one.


I can set them to do nothing on the avior as well, it still is annoying and distracting enough for me to never use the mouse.

Though I don't have any trouble with the fk1/2 buttons so hopefully this one will be better. Just at first glance the avior came to mind. Of course Zowie doesn't use side buttons that jut out really far, so there's that...

Good that they're providing new shapes though.

Here's to hoping they make an improved mico with side bottons


----------



## AnimalK

Man Zowie really does pay attention to us. It's hard to resist becoming a Zowie fanboy/fangirl.

I just wish they would address the poor scrollwheels.

EDIT: looking at the side pics, I can't help but think of the Sensei shape. I am excited.


----------



## Ino.

Instabuy!
Sweeeeeeet!

But why are they on maxfps.se yet not on the official Zowie site?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Instabuy!
> Sweeeeeeet!
> 
> But why are they on maxfps.se yet not on the official Zowie site?


Don't know,

What size you in for? I'll be going for the 11. Insta buy for me as well


----------



## Aventadoor

Seriously, why couldent they just make a taller and wider FK?
I honestly dont see the point of this mouse


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Seriously, why couldent they just make a taller and wider FK?
> I honestly dont see the point of this mouse


FK=claw
ZA=palm

It reminds me of the rival with the hump, I like that. I'm already happy with the FK1 but this one last looks great too.

I'll be going for the 11 too.

Does anyone know who ZA is? Another CS guy I suppose?


----------



## AnimalK

They all appear to have the same length. I will be going for the widest of the three (which most closely matches the Sensei measurements): the ZA 11.


----------



## Aventadoor

Its still not a wide mouse tho. Sensei is 67mm, probably around 63-64mm where you actually grip it.
Im kinda torn wether us sensei lovers like me would like this shape.

I have a hybrid grip I think... My fingers rest on the mouse, but the back of my palm isent touching... So it looks like it could be good.


----------



## AnimalK

The ZA11 is most likely 1 to 3 mm thinner across the board.

Because I immediately thought of the Sensei shape, I am trying to pick the mouse which will most likely fit me well.

I like the Sensei shape a lot and I also like the FK1 shape a lot. The ZA11 appears to be the logical choice for me.


----------



## popups

They should have talked to me. I sent them a lot of feedback during the FK development period.

The side buttons look improved, same with the main button piece.


----------



## jayfkay

alright Ino make sure to make a review and post a lot of pics with your hand on the mouse as well









again my complaint would be: too much damned rubber...


----------



## LegoFarmer

I find the FK1 to fit me better than this type of shape. When I use an ambi mouse, I like my palm not touching it completely, but still being there. Same with ergo mice like the EC1-A. The bottom of my palm makes contact, but it is just air from there. Won't be buying, but I am glad Zowie is being more diverse. Gonna stick to my EC1-A and MLT04 mice.


----------



## popups

It looks like an "improved" FK in different sizes. Like they added some of the traits of the AM into the FK: taller rear arch, straighter side buttons. The main button piece looks to bend differently than the FK1/2. The ZA12 is the size of the FK2 (if I remember the dimensions correctly).

Why make 3 new molds yet keep the single top piece design and lower front height? They should have made a separate button piece to get rid of the click issues. Also, they should have raised the height of the front for a more natural arch and to give more room on the side for your 2 fingers.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The side buttons look improved, same with the main button piece.


They look pretty similar to ec1/2 side buttons, but it's hard to tell if they're that big.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Side profile looks nice. Might have to wait and see how it compares to a Rival in terms of filling out the hand. My only gripe with the rival is really it's weight so this could be a good pick up. Will be waiting to see how others like it though.

Looks like they got rid of the LED scroll wheel too, like some people here wanted.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Shape looks promising and very nice that they are offering three different widths.

I like there rubber coating a lot, I have used there ec2 for a long time.

But the button latency and sensor behavior is for me to much a con.

Curious if they used a 24 notch wheel probably they have but I really like there first FK with the 12 indentations.


----------



## popups

I just ordered an Avior 7000 and G303. The plan was to return what I don't like. If I returned both, I would settle on a FK1 because the Castor isn't out yet. If Mionix had released the Castor in April-May I would have bought the Castor over the G303, Avior 7000, FK1 and ZA11. I will most likely send the Avior 7000 back because it will be too heavy and the right side buttons will bother me. The G303 will likely get sent back because of the shape and the tracking issue that still remains since the G502.


----------



## zeflow

Release date predictions? Going for the 11 for sure.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Release date predictions? Going for the 11 for sure.


Who is the marketing guy currently?


----------



## a_ak57

Unless those pictures aren't to scale, turns out the mice are actually different lengths as well:



Probably an extra 2-3mm in length for each model would be my guess.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Unless those pictures aren't to scale, turns out the mice are actually different lengths as well:
> 
> Probably an extra 2-3mm in length for each model would be my guess.


I was wondering why they didn't include length in the pics since they're obviously descending in length from left to right. Interested in the small one (unless the smallest is just the same size as the fk / fk2).


----------



## mitavreb

So many gaming mice for the claw and fingertip grip players. I'm kinda envious since palm grippers have few choices.









Seriously this is what Logitech should be doing. They should release different mouse shapes for the three grips. Zowie is doing it right. FK - for claw and fingertip. EC - for palm. And now these mice, and I think this looks like a hybrid palm with either claw or fingertip.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I was wondering why they didn't include length in the pics since they're obviously descending in length from left to right. Interested in the small one (unless the smallest is just the same size as the fk / fk2).


The ZA13 is smaller than the FK2.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1432003/zowie-announce-ec-evo-cl-series/60_20#post_21051036


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Unless those pictures aren't to scale, turns out the mice are actually different lengths as well:
> 
> Probably an extra 2-3mm in length for each model would be my guess.


I need to get my eyes examined lol.

Thanks for bothering to check.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I need to get my eyes examined lol.
> 
> Thanks for bothering to check.


The lengths are probably: 128mm, 124mm, 120mm.

It's like a Sensei, Kana and Kinzu line-up, but they all have the same features.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> FK=claw
> ZA=palm
> 
> It reminds me of the rival with the hump, I like that. I'm already happy with the FK1 but this one last looks great too.
> 
> I'll be going for the 11 too.
> 
> Does anyone know who ZA is? Another CS guy I suppose?


Don't know. Maybe they are dropping names and its just Zowie Ambi...

Actually no it can't be that. LOL


----------



## eysen




----------



## popups




----------



## fLixiyo

Just bought an FK1... but you know, I guess I have too much money anyway. ZA11 it is.

I have given up trying ergonomic mice. I never found one that was 100% comfortable to me ..
The only thing about the FK1 that annoys me is the height, so ZA11 is going to be the perfect mouse for me I guess.


----------



## CorruptBE

Wonder if they'll have technical improvements as well. Button latency cough* cough*.


----------



## MLJS54

Nice. ZA11 is going to be pretty tight. +1 for a clean black/white color scheme.


----------



## mitavreb

Only 1 mm in height difference. Will that even be noticeable?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Wonder if they'll have technical improvements as well. Button latency cough* cough*.


Probably the FK1 PCB with EC1-A latency, so only 5ms. That's more than acceptable.


----------



## fLixiyo

For the ZA11 its 3mm difference.

I think its definitely noticeable, the difference between FK 2014 and FK1 felt like two different worlds imo.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Nice. ZA11 is going to be pretty tight. +1 for a clean black/white color scheme.


The ZA reminds me of something.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Only 1 mm in height difference. Will that even be noticeable?


1mm of height can be noticeable to some. 2mm of difference is noticeable by many.


----------



## AnimalK

I believe it has less to do with maximal height and more to do with hump position and shape.


----------



## fLixiyo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The ZA reminds me of something.
> 
> 
> 1mm of height can be noticeable to some. 2mm of difference is noticeable by many.


ZA11 prototype? Kappa


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



More pictures of the ZA12:






At first glance, it looks like the Rival and the WMO (two of my favorite shapes) mixed into one.

Hype is so real. Here's hoping they improve the scroll wheel from the FK. Mine makes me jump randomly in-game sometimes, and other times doesn't work at all. It really takes away from what's otherwise my current favorite mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fLixiyo*
> 
> ZA11 prototype? Kappa


Naww.. I'm just a psychic.

This would have been a lot better than a ZA version of the FK.

I'm not surprised Zowie stuck to the AM PCB design and made a funky redesign of the shell.


----------



## espgodson

god i hope the buttons feel closer to the EC than the FK. FK buttons are so damn stiff


----------



## wmoftw

any info on weight?

when can someone in NA buy one?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espgodson*
> 
> god i hope the buttons feel closer to the EC than the FK. FK buttons are so damn stiff


It uses the same PCB as the AM/FK. So the switches are further forward than the EC. Meaning, it cannot be the same as the EC.


----------



## atarii

would be so nice to see omron on these mice
but i already know it won't happen so...


----------



## jayfkay

Cant you just replace the switches?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> would be so nice to see omron on these mice
> but i already know it won't happen so...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> Cant you just replace the switches?


It's not about the switches.

The ZA has a different button piece than the FK.


----------



## jayfkay

What?? Button piece? No idea what you mean. Huano switches are extremely similar to Omrons so why cant they be replaced in Zowie mice and what does the FK have to do with that?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> What?? Button piece? No idea what you mean. Huano switches are extremely similar to Omrons so why cant they be replaced in Zowie mice and what does the FK have to do with that?


http://futabatei4mei.blogspot.com/2013/05/zowie-fk.html

http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/20_20#post_23824519

http://1.share.photo.xuite.net/y0922062565/11b3e01/5582419/216186286_x.jpg

http://1.share.photo.xuite.net/y0922062565/11b3e46/5582419/216186867_x.jpg

http://cdn.overclock.net/8/86/86f5e396_image.jpeg


----------



## SwantanamoJ

Looks wonderful.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably the FK1 PCB with EC1-A latency, so only 5ms. That's more than acceptable.


Might get one then, I like huano's their feedback but better latency is always nice + I always preferred the AM shape more (though I can play just fine with FK2).


----------



## justnvc

There is such a thing as too much choice, not going to buy because I don't know which one I'd need.


----------



## aLv1080

I'll pass these mice.
Actually, I might buy the ZA13 just for testing, but I'm not a big fan of mice with butt.


----------



## Dreyka

It seems they are offering three different sizes. They will likely end up phasing out the least popular sizes at some point due to cost. The white and black design actually looks nice.


----------



## jayfkay

@popups
You didnt answer my question. Why wont we be able to replace the Huanos for Omrons in the ZA?


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> @popups
> You didnt answer my question. Why wont we be able to replace the Huanos for Omrons in the ZA?


I think what he is trying to say is the shell is slightly different in such a way that the button doesn't travel far enough to actuate the Omrons


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justnvc*
> 
> There is such a thing as too much choice, not going to buy because I don't know which one I'd need.


The ZA12 is the size of the FK/FK13/FK2. The ZA13 is smaller than the FK/FK13/FK2. The ZA11 is the size of the FK1.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> @popups
> You didnt answer my question. Why wont we be able to replace the Huanos for Omrons in the ZA?


You can replace the Huanos switches with Omrons.

I was saying that the button piece caused a lot of resistance on the FK1/FK2, making the actuation force on the higher end regardless of switches. So you might be disappointed after you solder some Omrons switches into the shell of the FK1/2 and possible the ZA. I linked a website showing the effort needed to remedy that issue by using a dremel.

The ZA mice have a different shape to the button piece, that should help with the actuation force issue the FK1/2 has. Which means it may not be necessary to swap out the Huano switches or dremel the button piece. I expect the ZA mice to reuse the AM/FK PCB, that means the ZA mice should be using the lighter [blue] Huano switches.

The ZA mice are basically a FK with the rear of an AM, side buttons like an AM, an improved button piece and a different color scroll wheel. I doubt they did anything inside -- that's why the front is still very low.


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## Brightmist

Nothing to see here, just palm/clawgrip mice ?


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## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I doubt they did anything inside -- that's why the front is still very low.


Would be expected of Zowie, that shape isnt to my liking anyway, looks like it would simply force some weird kind of clawgrip one me considering length and arch, doesnt seem well thought out imo.


----------



## sonskusa

looks like an ambidextrous rival. smallest size may be passable for fingertip, would've preferred straighter sides tho. I'll probably pass on this one for that reason + the 4 side buttons.


----------



## Cloudy

How stiff were the FK1/2's buttons compared to the EC's? I'm sort of falling out of love with EC2's huano's because of their "stiffness". If these are a little bit less stiff, I might be eyeing this instead of the Castor.


----------



## aleexkrysel

Shame, really like the tall hump in the back, but Zowie mice are too stiff for my liking. Main reason I sent back my EC2a.


----------



## espgodson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cloudy*
> 
> How stiff were the FK1/2's buttons compared to the EC's? I'm sort of falling out of love with EC2's huano's because of their "stiffness". If these are a little bit less stiff, I might be eyeing this instead of the Castor.


fk buttons are more stiff than ec's


----------



## exitone

Zowie literally spend 1 week making shell changes to a mouse then disappear for another 6 months.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cloudy*
> 
> How stiff were the FK1/2's buttons compared to the EC's? I'm sort of falling out of love with EC2's huano's because of their "stiffness". If these are a little bit less stiff, I might be eyeing this instead of the Castor.


Unless Zowie uses switches that are light enough to actuate when you rest your finger on the button you will be greatly disappointed because the switches are located further forward than those on the EC. Purely based on the switch placement on the PCB, any switch used on the AM/FK PCB will be perceived as stiffer.

Just buy the Castor.


----------



## auzcar

I'm gonna be honest guys, I almost wet my pants. With the hump closer to the back this should resemble the Sensei even more, I still do not understand why they didn't make the largest one as wide as the Sensei though, this is something the community has been crying over for a very long time. Personally I really like the FK1 but the lack of support, both width and height, makes my hand cramp after a while, the perfect shape for me is definitely the Sensei. Looking at the ZA11 I think that the bigger hump/height as well as the hump being further back will cure my cramping issues, despite still have the same width. I pre-ordered the ZA11 so fast when I saw this that not even Bruce Lee could've understood what the f*** just happened.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> . I pre-ordered the ZA11 so fast when I saw this that not even Bruce Lee could've understood what the f*** just happened.


LOL


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I'm gonna be honest guys, I almost wet my pants. With the hump closer to the back this should resemble the Sensei even more, I still do not understand why they didn't make the largest one as wide as the Sensei though, this is something the community has been crying over for a very long time. Personally I really like the FK1 but the lack of support, both width and height, makes my hand cramp after a while, the perfect shape for me is definitely the Sensei. Looking at the ZA11 I think that the bigger hump/height as well as the hump being further back will cure my cramping issues, despite still have the same width. I pre-ordered the ZA11 so fast when I saw this that not even Bruce Lee could've understood what the f*** just happened.


Where exactly did you pre order?? I saw nothing on their site.


----------



## auzcar

MaxFPS - http://www.maxfps.se/


----------



## bigtastie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably the FK1 PCB with EC1-A latency, so only 5ms. That's more than acceptable.


5 ms - I thought it was much higher. Source on this?


----------



## eysen

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=63


----------



## discoprince

ok zowie, im game.

might get a 13 or a 12.
getting a xai vibe from this.


----------



## Necroblob

This shape looks good and the 80g weight on the ZA13 is tempting.

It's either the ZA13 or the ROG Sica... I will probably wait for a few reviews, but May looks like a good month for mice and a bad month for my bank balance.


----------



## aleexkrysel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> This shape looks good and the 80g weight on the ZA13 is tempting.
> 
> It's either the ZA13 or the ROG Sica... I will probably wait for a few reviews, but May looks like a good month for mice and a bad month for my bank balance.


I'm in the same boat. Might give the ZA a shot after all, just because the shape looks like exactly what I want. However, I honestly don't know which model to pick though...


----------



## wmoftw

ZA13 = 80g :O

I need to try one! Any word on NA availability?


----------



## Bcider

I really liked my Zowie FK but until they use different switches I cannot go back to Zowie. The switches they use for the mouse buttons are horrible for Mobas, RTS, and basically anything that requires fast clicking.


----------



## ramraze

Looks quite nice but slightly worried about the width. Whenever I would trackaim even a little with fk2/fk1, I would feel my hand shaking back and forth, unable to stay on dodging enemies. I'm happy that they realized the need for more height, but width is quite important too. It's still a farcry from xai. I would go for the Za11 bc it's the widest of them.
Fail at Alberto from marketing. I asked him on fb about the coating, and he replied that it's the same as Fk1/Fk2 and Ec-A series. Fail. The difference between them is night and day. There is a felt difference even between fk2 and fk1. At least on the different models that i've tested.








I hope it's rubberized enough to avoid tacky sweat, and grippy enough for dry hands. At least the \ / shape is a welcomed sight.


----------



## a_ak57

I'm in the camp of being unsure which one to get as well. With the way I claw I like shorter mice, but I don't like that the smaller ones give up width too. And it's hard to asses based on the FK1/2 dimensions because the higher butt is gonna make them feel way different (like how the G9X is my favorite shape, but a mouse that short with the FK shape would be horrid for me).

Makes me wish Zowie was a more well-known company and I could actually try their stuff out in stores.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Makes me wish Zowie was a more well-known company and I could actually try their stuff out in stores.


It's called Amazon. Send back if don't like. Ask for compensation for mailing expenses. Done


----------



## a_ak57

Can you actually send something back that you've used simply on the grounds that you don't like it without paying shipping costs or a restock fee? I assumed if it's not an actual problem with the product they'd make you at least pay shipping back. I mean, you're forcing them to sell an open box/preowned item with losses in shipping just because of your opinion.


----------



## Melan

Yes. I returned G302 to amazon 4 days later simply stating "mouse wobbles" in reason section.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Hey, Zowie. Make an FK1 with the color scheme of the EC-A series and ZA series with the lowered click latency. Take my money after. All of it.


----------



## detto87

I don't get why they are releasing ZA13, it looks way too small for any hand size to really palm it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Hey, Zowie. Make an FK1 with the color scheme of the EC-A series and ZA series with the lowered click latency. Take my money after. All of it.


FK1 since 2015 (as well as FK2) have click latency like the EC1/2-A.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I don't get why they are releasing ZA13, it looks way too small for any hand size to really palm it.
> FK1 since 2015 (as well as FK2) have click latency like the EC1/2-A.


Interesting... There's still the color scheme







I'm sure Zowie will update it sometime and it'll just be a new shell. I wouldn't enjoy the ZA shape. I think an FK with a taller back would be weird for me. I like a nice big mouse like the EC1-A that I can palm or claw (Yea, I can claw an EC1-A with 18.5cm hands just fine







) or I like an ambidextrous mouse to claw and fingertip. My palm never fully covers anyway. I'm just glad that Zowie is becoming more diverse because I already know some people will love the shape and that's great.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yes. I returned G302 to amazon 4 days later simply stating "mouse wobbles" in reason section.


Huh, I guess they don't care because of their sheer volume of business.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I don't get why they are releasing ZA13, it looks way too small for any hand size to really palm it.


I'm actually eyeing the 13 as a claw mouse, seems like it'll be really good for people who like short mice with a butt. But yeah, seems strange to include it in the palm marketing.


----------



## fnade

Any info about sensor placement of each mouse ?
And for which pro player "ZA" stands ?


----------



## zealord

Hmm I am interested in this one. My Rival is getting quite old and already has heavy traces of usage, but the price is 10% higher than usual atleast in Europe that is


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Can you actually send something back that you've used simply on the grounds that you don't like it without paying shipping costs or a restock fee? I assumed if it's not an actual problem with the product they'd make you at least pay shipping back. I mean, you're forcing them to sell an open box/preowned item with losses in shipping just because of your opinion.




Those are the return options I see on amazon. I know if you click "No longer needed/wanted" you will either have to pay shipping or have a default shipping amount subtracted from the amount refunded. I've never seen a restocking fee though.


----------



## chrislee11

Ohhhhhh this is interesting. I liked the fk but I always wanted a bigger butt. This mouse could be good! Question though. I am looking at the 12 and 13. What size is the 13 comparable to? Seems small but is it like kinzu small or g100s small? Also is the 12 basically like the size of a kana?

Torn on what size I would go for.


----------



## Jalal

A new Zowie mouse! I really love pain.

Once i returned home and found my lovely FK not on her place, so i wondered and became sad. Hopefully it will be much better with the new ZA 11 / 12 / 13


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aleexkrysel*
> 
> I'm in the same boat. Might give the ZA a shot after all, just because the shape looks like exactly what I want. However, I honestly don't know which model to pick though...


If you want a FK2 size, go for the ZA12. If you want something like a Kinzu with side buttons, get the ZA13. If you want something to fills the hand as much as possible, get the ZA11. I think Pasha, from Virtus Pro, will get a ZA13.

I would be fine with the size of the ZA12 if the shape is good. Obviously the 85g weight is better, it makes the Avior and Castor look off putting.

I think the size of the ZA11 will improve my aim because it would fill my hand entirely, which is great for my grip style, but the width of the rear and the height might be too much for me. For symmetrical designs 65mm is typically the max width for me to use my palm to lift the mouse. If the shape of the rear is really good, 67mm will be totally fine for my grip style. The length is really what makes me want to try the ZA11 over the ZA12.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Fail at Alberto from marketing. I asked him on fb about the coating, and he replied that it's the same as Fk1/Fk2 and Ec-A series. Fail. The difference between them is night and day. There is a felt difference even between fk2 and fk1. At least on the different models that i've tested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's rubberized enough to avoid tacky sweat, and grippy enough for dry hands.


They constantly changed how they applied the coating, but it has been the same type of coating since the FK.


----------



## Nivity

Nice name. Zowie Ambidextrous I suppose, renaming on their mice inc?









Seems to be hm to many variations from a production standpoint.
Not that ill buy any since its huanos but good to see zowie going :>


----------



## ncck

Looks interesting. I own the fk1 and ec1-a and to me the coating on both of them feels slightly different

Also the mouse sensor of the ec1-a feels like it's in a different position than the fk1, not sure if it's more north or south instead of center. This doesn't really affect me that much but when you swap between the two you have that small adjustment period of like.. oh sensor is in a different spot, I felt more 'raw' precise with the fk1 over the ec1-a. But I feel the fk1 accels in something like counter-strike while the ec1-a dominates in a game such as quake.

Maybe this in-between will give us precision and tracking? I felt like I couldn't follow/track really fast moving targets with the fk1 unless I put in a lot of effort, meanwhile in counter-strike it was easy.. in Reflex and quake it felt much more uncomfortable.

I won't immediately buy this like the others however, I may end up not liking it at all.. if the 'back' feels similar to the SS rival then I probably won't like it, that mouse felt awkward in my palm. Good to see new stuff from zowie, it's what I use and will probably keep on using!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I won't immediately buy this like the others however, I may end up not liking it at all.. if the 'back' feels similar to the SS rival then I probably won't like it, that mouse felt awkward in my palm. Good to see new stuff from zowie, it's what I use and will probably keep on using!


Have you ever used a Zowie AM? It will likely feel like that considering the angles and the use of the AM PCB design.


----------



## bobsaget

Saw the news a few minutes ago, I knew there would be a thread here








Looks like a great replacement for my fk2013. Never made the jump when the ec-a series was released, I was afraid the shape wouldn't feel good.
Do we agree the scroll isn't illuminated this time?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Do we agree the scroll isn't illuminated this time?


The EC series is the only mice to have the LED scroll wheel.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Have you ever used a Zowie AM? It will likely feel like that considering the angles and the use of the AM PCB design.


Unfortunately I have not! Not confident on dishing out $60 for another mouse either!


----------



## Ricey20

sooooo when can we order this from Zowie?


----------



## bobsaget

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The EC series is the only mice to have the LED scroll wheel.


OK thanks


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> sooooo when can we order this from Zowie?


Hopefully they announce a release soon.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> This shape looks good and the 80g weight on the ZA13 is tempting.
> 
> It's either the ZA13 or the ROG Sica... I will probably wait for a few reviews, but May looks like a good month for mice and a bad month for my bank balance.


Same here man... Either ZA13 or RoG Sica...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Hopefully they announce a release soon.


http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=63



__ https://www.facebook.com/ZOWIEGEAR/posts/10152848855103963


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=63
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/ZOWIEGEAR/posts/10152848855103963


Yea i noticed no specific date. I assume in May like many others. Someone talked about pre-ordering too, idk how they did that. Lol, i noticed nothing to let me do so.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea i noticed no specific date. I assume in May like many others. Someone talked about pre-ordering too, idk how they did that. Lol, i noticed nothing to let me do so.


Welcome to the world of Zowie. It will take awhile to reach your region. I wouldn't hold my breath. Don't be surprised when it sells out quickly and you have to wait a month for the new batch.

http://www.maxfps.se/zowie


----------



## nittwit

I'm waiting for Zowie to make a G9X alike mouse, with interchangable grips and weight system. I know they'll make it







.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fnade*
> 
> And for which pro player "ZA" stands ?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Welcome to the world of Zowie. It will take awhile to reach your region. I wouldn't hold my breath. Don't be surprised when it sells out quickly and you have to wait a month for the new batch.
> 
> http://www.maxfps.se/zowie


Hell no. Lol i'll be pissed.


----------



## rebecca black

Would it really be the difficult to make just one version without the dual thumb buttons?


----------



## Aventadoor

I contacted Maxfps regarding their incoming, and got this reply "Japp, enligt vår leverantör ska det stämma.".
In other words, I might get a ZA11 by the end of next week


----------



## auzcar

With the holidays I doubt we'll get them next week. Unless they send them on wednesday, a day earlier than their site says they'll get them in. I'm not even sure that the post offices works on thursday either though, and it that case they need to send it on tuesday. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but it would be awesome indeed!

EDIT: Nvm my stupidness, remembered one day wrong and the postal service will indeed be working as usual on thursday so if they send it the 29th we'll probably have it before next weekend. At least in the southern parts, as I live in the north I'll probably have to wait anyway


----------



## Sencha

Oh they added a little ridge. That's good for me


----------



## Dreyka

For those wondering

*Steelseries Sensei:* 125.5 x 68.3 x 38.7mm

*Steelseries Kana:* 124 x 64 x 37mm

*Steelseries Kinzu:* 117 x 64 x 36mm

*Steelseries Xai:* 125.5 x 68.3 x 38.7mm

*Comparison*



*Sensei*



*Kana*



*Kinzu*



*Xai*


----------



## ramraze

Does anyone know if it is possible to order abroad from maxfps.se ? I live in Finland, but I don't see that option unfortunately.

Edit: Just got word they only deliver to Sweden and Norway. Gg you swedes.


----------



## Sencha

Its up for pre-order in UK as well

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-039-ZW


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Oh they added a little ridge. That's good for me


That ridge also exists on the FK1/2.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Its up for pre-order in UK as well


Don't forget Caseking: https://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Zowie-ZA-Serie-Perfekte-Formgebung-und-ueberlegene-Technologie:_:1205.html

I really like the look of the grip of the ZA11 (which I ordered):


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> That ridge also exists on the FK1/2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget Caseking: https://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Zowie-ZA-Serie-Perfekte-Formgebung-und-ueberlegene-Technologie:_:1205.html
> 
> I really like the look of the grip of the ZA11 (which I ordered):


Yup. The height profile reminds me of the Cm Storm Alcor / Roccat Savu, both which sit really well in my hand.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> That ridge also exists on the FK1/2.


its not the same dude. The new ridge is much more pronounced!









See this comparison shot


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Wow, this is comically sad...

All they had to do to make the FK1 palmable was increase the width and straighten out the sides like the Aurora. Increasing the height only in the back is going to destroy the weight balance, making the mouse only useable in palm grip...

Zowie makes such horrible choices and doesn't seem to be able to learn anything from other mice that have been popular... The most popular mice and/or palm grip mice like the 3.0, 1.1, 518, DA, etc. have all had the weight balance in the middle, and are much wider.

There is still no mouse with a good sensor that can be used in all 3 grips. By destroying the weight balance and keeping the same thin width they've destroyed any chance this mouse had of being useable in all 3 grips.

Zowie essentially went from making small & smaller sizes and getting complaints for no medium/large, to making small, smaller, & tiny... Every single one of the most popular, top gaming mice _(not including mice released in the past year)_ have all been ~65mm width. And zowie refuses to make anything over 60mm.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Seriously, why couldent they just make a taller and wider FK?
> I honestly dont see the point of this mouse


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I don't get why they are releasing ZA13, it looks way too small for any hand size to really palm it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Its still not a wide mouse tho. Sensei is 67mm, probably around 63-64mm where you actually grip it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Looks quite nice but slightly worried about the width. Whenever I would trackaim even a little with fk2/fk1, I would feel my hand shaking back and forth, unable to stay on dodging enemies. I'm happy that they realized the need for more height, but width is quite important too. It's still a farcry from xai. I would go for the Za11 bc it's the widest of them.


Yup.


----------



## Aventadoor

I guess they will make a FK1 on steriods once they run out of stupid idea's


----------



## jerronchua55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 
> 
> Increasing the height only in the back is going to destroy the weight balance, making the mouse only useable in palm grip...


That's a pretty poor assumption, they could have increased the height on the back without thickening the plastic used for the shell on the hump.


----------



## RyuLAN

Waiting for the click latency results before ordering all of them









-Ryu


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Do you have other people who use your OC account?

-MaxK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerronchua55*
> 
> That's a pretty poor assumption, they could have increased the height on the back without thickening the plastic used for the shell on the hump.


Given that previous zowie mice had issues with weight balance, and given that I haven't yet used a mouse that was significantly larger in the back like that and didn't have weight balance issues, I think it's safe to assume this one's gonna have weight balance issues.

Of course, hopefully it doesn't, and hopefully the buttons aren't ridiculously stiff, and hopefully the sensor performance is better than the KPM & FM. But it seems unlikely.


----------



## auzcar

MaxK,

The Rival is pretty similar in shape when it comes to the hump being at the back and that mouse seems pretty popular.

Even though I agree with a lot of what you say I think there's a lot of your personal opinions you present as facts. Personally I think that Zowie is the company that listens most to the community and even though they made a big mistake not increasing the width this will still make it better compared to the FK1/2 for a lot of people, I'm pretty sure I'm one of them. The FK1 is almost to small for me to claw, this results in handcramps, the ZA11 will probably get rid of this problem for me at least.

Also, personally I don't think the buttons is that stiff on any of their mice, yes they are stiffer than most of the competition but as an FPS player I like that.

Saying that the mouse is only gonna be good for palm feels weird as well, I can bet my right arm that it still will be too small for me to palm, just like tye FK1 and even Sensei. I do have very big hands though.


----------



## Nilizum

The lengths are 128, 124, 120? nvm, just saw that image in the gallery.


----------



## Ino.

As the FK1 was already close to perfection for me I'm only looking forward to the ZA11.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> As the FK1 was already close to perfection for me I'm only looking forward to the ZA11.


Same. Even though it makes me feel like a raging fanboy


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Same. Even though it makes me feel like a raging fanboy


Haha, +1 on that one.


----------



## nittwit

I guess the ZA13 will be close to the Roccat Lua, but with a better sensor.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> That ridge also exists on the FK1/2.


The ridge on the ZA is very different. It's more arbitrary/artificial.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Wow, this is comically sad...
> 
> All they had to do to make the FK1 palmable was increase the width and straighten out the sides like the Aurora. Increasing the height only in the back is going to destroy the weight balance, making the mouse only useable in palm grip.


They changed a lot of things, but kept the front height and side width because they are recycling the AM's PCB design.

I like the arch of the AM more than the arch of the FK. The FK lacks support for the palm, the only remedy is to lengthen it, making it wider wouldn't be a good idea because lifting that shape with your palm will be very difficult or impossible.

I still want a mouse more like this instead:


----------



## leothelion

By the looks of it I'm very intruged and will give it a try. I currently use FK1 which suits me well but this looks even better for me. Only problem is the three different versions, I will have to try them all now to really now


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *leothelion*
> 
> By the looks of it I'm very intruged and will give it a try. I currently use FK1 which suits me well but this looks even better for me. Only problem is the three different versions, I will have to try them all now to really now


Know*^ sorry it was bothering the hell out of me.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The ridge on the ZA is very different. It's more arbitrary/artificial.
> They changed a lot of things, but kept the front height and side width because they are recycling the AM's PCB design.
> 
> I like the arch of the AM more than the arch of the FK. The FK lacks support for the palm, the only remedy is to lengthen it, making it wider wouldn't be a good idea because lifting that shape with your palm will be very difficult or impossible.
> 
> I still want a mouse more like this instead:


I definitely preferred the AM's height, but fingertip grippers like a low mouse from what I've heard, and it's really not a huge deal for me either way. Also, the AM was definitely more balanced towards the middle.

I don't know how you figure more width would make it hard to pick up in palm grip... As I mentioned, the most popular palm grip mice for the past 10 years have all had ~65mm width.

According to this: http://www.esreality.com/post/2419867/wmo-1-1a-vs-basic-optical-v2-0/ the WMO has 67mm width and is extremely popular for palm grip. And the \_/ shape of the FK/ZA only improves lifting grip over the WMO's flatter sides. And if they straightened out the sides like the Aurora, rather than having it wider in the back, that should help as well.


----------



## popups

v
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I definitely preferred the AM's height, but fingertip grippers like a low mouse from what I've heard, and it's really not a huge deal for me either way. Also, the AM was definitely more balanced towards the middle.
> 
> I don't know how you figure more width would make it hard to pick up in palm grip... As I mentioned, the most popular palm grip mice for the past 10 years have all had ~65mm width.
> 
> According to this: http://www.esreality.com/post/2419867/wmo-1-1a-vs-basic-optical-v2-0/ the WMO has 67mm width and is extremely popular for palm grip. And the \_/ shape of the FK/ZA only improves lifting grip over the WMO's flatter sides. And if they straightened out the sides like the Aurora, rather than having it wider in the back, that should help as well.


The flat and round rear of the FK stops you from being able to lift the mouse using only your palm, yet it's 64mm. Lifting becomes the job of the fingers only, in that case, straight sides on the FK would put more strain on your fingers. A wider rear could be fine if the shape was designed for it rather than simply scaled from another design.

I do like a wider mouse, but the width needs to follow function.


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> The lengths are 128, 124, 120? nvm, just saw that image in the gallery.


What's sensor position look like?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> What's sensor position look like?


The same PCB design of the AM/FK.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The flat and wide rear of the FK stops you from being able to lift the mouse using only your palm, yet it's 64mm. Lifting becomes the job of the fingers only, in that case, straight sides on the FK would put more strain on your fingers.
> 
> I do like a wider mouse, but the width needs to follow function.


No no no, the back of the FK1 is anti-lift because of the /_\ shape. Compare that to the straight sides of the Aurora, where the majority of the mouse has a \_/ shape.

The mx518's rear is around 65mm, and there's no problem lifting that mouse in palm grip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A wider rear could be fine if the shape was designed for it rather than simply scaled from another design.


Oh, no, for sure. What I asked for with the FK1 was to make the front & mid wider so it has straighter sides more like the Aurora. Getting rid of the /_\ shaped rear is important too, but if you just widened the front and mid it would let more of your palm grip the mouse, rather than just your fingers. I agree that if they made a 4th size that was exactly the same but larger in every way, I don't think that would be ideal.


----------



## Aventadoor

The butt of the mouse should be /_\ shaped, but the on the FK1 the angle is way too soft (look at Sensei).
And then it should start to get negative camber \ _/ where you hold it with your fingers, but a soft positive angle (again, look at sensei). So if it was 67mm rear, and went to 65 where you actually grip the mouse with your fingers it would be excellent. It would be very natural for the hand.


----------



## auzcar

Personally I think there's a gap on the market where a large ambidextrous mouse should be. There's plenty of large ergonomic mice but no large ambi. For a person like me that claws, have big hands and need a right side that's easy to grip and lift this is sorta frustrating. When using ambi mice like FK1 my hand cramps because it's too small and when using larger ergo mice like the EC1 the slanted right side is a problem.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> The butt of the mouse should be /_\ shaped,


Why?


----------



## Aventadoor

Because its comfertable to have that round butt for your thumb - palm - little finger and its nice when your doing short bursts and just slightly move the mouse down with your fingers. Just like Kinzu V3, Sensei, Kana V2 etc. They all have Negative camber rear, which smoothly goes to positive camber.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Ino do you prefer the FK1 shape over the Aurora shape?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Because its comfertable to have that round butt for your thumb - palm - little finger and its nice when your doing short bursts and just slightly move the mouse down with your fingers. Just like Kinzu V3, Sensei, Kana V2 etc. They all have Negative camber rear, which smoothly goes to positive camber.


That doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand how the butt of the mouse being flattened out at the sides would affect any of that.

What mouse have you used that had entirely positive camber sides, and you didn't like it?


----------



## Aventadoor

I got a original Abyssus 3.5g.

Why doesnt it make sens?
Tons of ambi mouse have it like that. Again, I dont talk about having tons of camber, but very mellow and smooth curve and transition from negative -> positive camber.
Just like a Sensei/Kinzu V3/Kana V2 or even FK, which have alot of camber.
It fills up the palm better and is more comfertable.

I completly disagree with having completly straight edges.
It wouldent be natural for the hand.


----------



## Dreyka

Removed. *See this post.*


----------



## falcon26

Will these be LED free I hope? Or at least the ability to turn off the led on the scroll wheel...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Pretty sure the xai and sensei are the same size/shape, and the xai was unusable for me in palm grip because of the contours on the sides. It seemed specifically tailored for smaller hands and/or claw grip only.


----------



## Creizai

I should have known this was going to happen. It's Zowie after all, after melting my FK2 and buying a G303 I've been decently happy since the G303 has a butt.. ugh. ZA looks so good..

ZA = ZAT ASS


----------



## falcon26

Oh cool they did get rid of the LED. When are these due out.


----------



## Arizonian

Hmmm ZA13 looks like a mouse I might be interested in out of curiosity and trying Zowie. A3310 sensor no drivers needed sounds great. On my radar now....


----------



## ururu

amazon







[F5]


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ururu*
> 
> amazon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [F5]


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## exitone

Amazon better get ready for people to order all 3 shapes and return 2.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Amazon better get ready for people to order all 3 shapes and return 2.


A smaller mouse: ZA13.

Medium sized like the FK2: ZA12

Large mouse like a FK1 or EC1: ZA11.

It's not hard.

I like longer mice like the EC1. So I will get the ZA11.


----------



## Brightmist

ZA13 isn't small but an average sized mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> ZA13 isn't small but an average sized mouse.


120mm is short for people with larger hands. The height is actually higher than many small mice I have seen. It isn't wide at all.

BST's mouse is 118 x 61 x 38mm. People think that mouse is small.

The Kinzu is 117 x 64 x 36mm. People think that mouse is tiny.

The G303 is 115 x 65 x 37mm. It's really short, but wider than the ZA13 and basically the same height.


----------



## Brightmist

What people think is irrelevant.
eg. My friend's a pro voleyball player and he has 36 cm long hands, he thinks all mice is too small for him.

Therefore:
90-110 small
110-125 average
125-X big


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What people think is irrelevant.
> eg. My friend's a pro voleyball player and he has 36 cm long hands, he thinks all mice is too small for him.
> 
> Therefore:
> 90-110 small
> 110-125 average
> 125-X big


You must be ignoring the length of the PCB. For very small mice there needs to be clever PCB design to make them really small. I doubt there is much room left for that PCB and shell design to make it much smaller.

120mm is the smallest I could use for a palm grip. My fingers would be at the edges or hanging over the main buttons depending on the shape. The FK is 124mm, that is already nearing too small for me.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What people think is irrelevant.
> eg. My friend's a pro voleyball player and he has 36 cm long hands, he thinks all mice is too small for him.
> 
> Therefore:
> 90-110 small
> 110-125 average
> 125-X big


Jesus 36cm long!!! I thought my 22cm were big. LEL


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> My friend's a pro voleyball player and he has 36 cm long hands, he thinks all mice is too small for him.


He should contact Guinness World Records because he has 4cm on the current record holder.


----------



## Brightmist

Well he said 36, he might've over-measured or his method might have different standards.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Well he said 36, he might've over-measured or his method might have different standards.


Like starting from the elbow


----------



## Brightmist

The guy's 2.04 @ 95 kg'ish, doubt it.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah it was joke.


----------



## auzcar

I'm 5cm shorter and a couple of kg lighter and my hands are 23cm, he must've meant 26, measured it wrong or he's a freakin giant haha. Nevertheless it's purely preference though, I've never felt that a mouse is too big, and I use claw.

The problem for me have always been the slanted right side on the larger mice. An ambi mouse the size of an IE3.0 is my dream.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Those ZAs kinda look like a FK1 and WMO got busy.

Wait, WHAT?!?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Well he said 36, he might've over-measured or his method might have different standards.


Maybe he measured it like most guys measure their hm private parts? Doing anything to add some inches









And ye I doubt he have 36cm hands


----------



## kenshirosan

I have 16-17cm hands, would the ZA11 be too big? I use a kind of palm/fingertip hybrid that feels most comfortable but I've never used a mouse with so much...behind


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Pretty sure the xai and sensei are the same size/shape, and the xai was unusable for me in palm grip because of the contours on the sides. It seemed specifically tailored for smaller hands and/or claw grip only.


Same here. Sensei is a good shape, but it's not the end of the story.
I can only play with claw or fingertip grip with a Sensei because it's so small.
Especially the front part where the ring and pinky finger grips the sides is too low and doesn't offere enough space.
If playing with 3 fingers on top (ring finger on button2) then that isn't a problem of course.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A smaller mouse: ZA13.
> 
> Medium sized like the FK2: ZA12
> 
> Large mouse like a FK1 or EC1: ZA11.
> 
> It's not hard.
> 
> I like longer mice like the EC1. So I will get the ZA11.


Well, the thing is that shape changes how long something actually feels (just like how size/shape can change how heavy a mouse feels in-hand). Specifically, a large butt can make a mouse feel longer than it really is due to how it changes your hand sitting on the mouse, so I don't think it's as simple as "if you liked FK2 then get the ZA12" since the FK line has basically zero butt. We'd have to find some other mice with similar profiles. So maybe the steelseries ambi mice would be a better "if you like A then get B" comparison but I haven't actually looked at them side by side with the ZAs.


----------



## detto87

The comparison FK1/ZA11 FK2/ZA12 is actually very good. Look at the measurements and general shape similarities.


----------



## Jalal

For smalls hands the ZA 13 is too long.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> A new Zowie mouse! I really love pain.
> 
> Once i returned home and found my lovely FK not on her place, so i wondered and became sad. Hopefully it will be much better with the new ZA 11 / 12 / 13


We can assure you, you will be most satisfied with your purchase. The new Zowie series has lied under extreme procotion. If it can not deliver the satisfied retrocussion, we immediately repurchase the shipping effort. Wages and fees don't allow us though to procrastinate. We immediately pay within 2 days.


----------



## padw1

Hey i have an "zowie AM" and want to upgrade to an "zowie za" what u guys think which of the 3 is like an "zowie am"


----------



## ronal

Looks like the ZA13 will be a good replacement for the Kinzu v2.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> The comparison FK1/ZA11 FK2/ZA12 is actually very good. Look at the measurements and general shape similarities.


I have to respectfully disagree. The side profile of the ZA is more like the Sensei than the FK line. I have a Newmen GX1-Pro, a sensei clone that is 123mm long. My fingers actually sit further back on that than they do my FK2, 124mm, because the latter has a smaller butt. The FK1 at 128mm actually gives a comparable finger position to the GX1 for me. The arc distance is longer when there's more of a butt, hence why you really can't just look at the flat side's length and assume it'll feel the same. Even though it's 123mm, the height of the GX1 is 38mm versus 37 on the FK1 and 36 on the FK2. Meanwhile, the ZA mice are 38/39/40mm tall so the difference will be likely be even more noticeable.


----------



## falcon26

When are they coming out?


----------



## e4stw00t

As I constantly go back to my trustworthy G100s I will pick up a ZA13 to see if that one can finally replace my old fella!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Ino do you prefer the FK1 shape over the Aurora shape?


Yes. While both are similar I prefer the FK shape, the Aurora has some sharp edges. I have no problem gripping the FK1.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yes. While both are similar I prefer the FK shape, the Aurora has some sharp edges. I have no problem gripping the FK1.


Defects or by design? I can't think of any place there could have been sharp edges on mine. Is it just those edges or is there something else about the FK shape you prefer?


----------



## pgabor

The ZA12 most likely


----------



## Nilizum

If they're doing the same ratios, the ZA13 will probably have the more optimal sensor positioning. It's smaller, so that sucks for the bigger hands dudes.


----------



## falcon26

So no one has any clue when these are due out? I have checked the web page and their Facebook page but it doesn't say anything about a release date...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *padw1*
> 
> Hey i have an "zowie AM" and want to upgrade to an "zowie za" what u guys think which of the 3 is like an "zowie am"


The Zowie AM is 125mm long, 38mm tall, 58mm at the middle, 60mm at the front and 65mm at the rear.

The closest thing to the AM and the FK2 is the ZA12.


----------



## Dreyka

I think I'll get a ZA13 because I expect that is the model most likely to be discontinued first. Still I hope Steelseries release a PMW-3366 Sensei at the end of this year.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I think I'll get a ZA13 because I expect that is the model most likely to be discontinued first.


That's possible. If it does it will be later on because they want to make back their money on the molds.


----------



## mousefan

Xcellent


----------



## casualgamer

Anyone know if Zowie has plans to refresh the current FK line-up any time soon? (hopefully to fix latency)


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *casualgamer*
> 
> Anyone know if Zowie has plans to refresh the current FK line-up any time soon? (hopefully to fix latency)


Could be solved with software but Zowie wouldn't (doesn't) want to go down the software path. Why have firmware flashing when you can plunk down cash for yet another refresh?

To answer the question probably next year.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kenshirosan*
> 
> I have 16-17cm hands, would the ZA11 be too big? I use a kind of palm/fingertip hybrid that feels most comfortable but I've never used a mouse with so much...behind


Let us know what size mice you've liked in the past. Its not as simple as hand size as you could get some one with huge hands like just has a preference for small mice.

Let's not start the whole software debate again. It just goes round and round with no end


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Defects or by design? I can't think of any place there could have been sharp edges on mine. Is it just those edges or is there something else about the FK shape you prefer?


Where the upper shell transitions into the lower shell.

There isn't really anything I dislike about the FK1 shape. It's close to a perfect fit for me. I didn't use the Aurora for more than 30 minutes because I found both the clicks and the performance.... lacking.


----------



## mousefan

words cant describe how amused i am because of pure and raw beauty. my endless honest love to zowie.









funny meant, but damn great mouse babeeeeeeee and thx to zowie.


----------



## CookieBook

Didn't read the entire thread but did they fix the mouse button latency issue on these new mice?


----------



## detto87

I sure do hope though that they fixed the mouse wheel.
On every Zowie mouse it has problems. The wheel on my current EC1-A I just received is SO broken that when I use the wheel click, it sometimes is stuck and I have to SCROLL the wheel for it to pop up again. Also, again, missing a lot of scrolls (mostly up). I'm returning the EC1-A for a repair or exchange, the shape is just awesome, I want to keep it anyway. But the wheel is beyond garbage.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I sure do hope though that they fixed the mouse wheel.
> On every Zowie mouse it has problems. The wheel on my current EC1-A I just received is SO broken that when I use the wheel click, it sometimes is stuck and I have to SCROLL the wheel for it to pop up again. Also, again, missing a lot of scrolls (mostly up). I'm returning the EC1-A for a repair or exchange, the shape is just awesome, I want to keep it anyway. But the wheel is beyond garbage.


Yeah very annoying. When you're directly on top of the wheel it takes more force to actuate compared to when your finger is on the side as happens when you're scrolling down. So much misclicking.


----------



## bobsaget

In terms of size, the original 2013 FK is closer to the FK1 or FK2?

thanks


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> In terms of size, the original 2013 FK is closer to the FK1 or FK2?
> 
> thanks


Original is same size as FK2.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Yeah very annoying. When you're directly on top of the wheel it takes more force to actuate compared to when your finger is on the side as happens when you're scrolling down. So much misclicking.


The real problem is that the mouse wheel gets stuck in the inside of the mouse shell!
It doesn't pop back up like a normal button should do. It just stays pressed by itself.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Original is same size as FK2.


Yep. FK2 = FK + 3310 sensor.


----------



## bobsaget

Ok thanks to you two


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Where the upper shell transitions into the lower shell.
> 
> There isn't really anything I dislike about the FK1 shape. It's close to a perfect fit for me. I didn't use the Aurora for more than 30 minutes because I found both the clicks and the performance.... lacking.


I don't know if it's perfect but there are a few mice I can swap in between with minimal effort:

- Sensei / Xai
- FK Models
- AM
- SS Kana v2

Funny enough the shapes are all rather similar.


----------



## popups

After using the Avior 7000 and the G303 it looks like I will be getting a ZA11 or a Castor. Most likely I will go with the ZA11 because of the shape of the Castor. I wonder what players, if any, Mionix uses to help with their shapes.


----------



## LegoFarmer

If they release the AM series with the 3310, they can have my money.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> If they release the AM series with the 3310, they can have my money.


That's what the ZA is supposed to be.


----------



## Jalal

3310 scam


----------



## Cloudy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> After using the Avior 7000 and the G303 it looks like I will be getting a ZA11 or a Castor. Most likely I will go with the ZA11 because of the shape of the Castor. I wonder what players, if any, Mionix uses to help with their shapes.


SK is the only eSports org I know of that Mionix sponsors. They had a short stint with Orbit before they were dropped for Turtle Beach.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cloudy*
> 
> SK is the only eSports org I know of that Mionix sponsors. They had a short stint with Orbit before they were dropped for Turtle Beach.


They are trying to get the hype up.

https://www.facebook.com/eminencia/posts/10152852961948014?fref=nf

To bad they don't have some serious people to help them with their designs.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> After using the Avior 7000 and the G303 it looks like I will be getting a ZA11 or a Castor. Most likely I will go with the ZA11 because of the shape of the Castor. I wonder what players, if any, Mionix uses to help with their shapes.


You dont need players to redesign OEM Stuff.


----------



## ramraze

They wouldn't release a new pcb design if they can reuse something old. Many companies do this - just like nvidia.

So that's why no width.

Btw zowiegear.dk will have them relatively soon


----------



## offshell

I liked the FK1 (never tried the FK2 or original FK), but preferred the EC2-A over the EC1-A even with larger hands, so I'm not quite sure what size I'd want.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I liked the FK1 (never tried the FK2 or original FK), but preferred the EC2-A over the EC1-A even with larger hands, so I'm not quite sure what size I'd want.


What size are your hands old bean?


----------



## Arizonian

Liking the back end which looks like it will support a claw grip position while get to rest palm. Something I don't do with the Savu or Kone Pure Optical while gaming.

I hope the scroll wheel is improved on the ZA line. I'm spoiled with current 'Titan Wheel'. I haven't used Huano switches, I'm mostly FPS so should be fine.

Since Roccat hasn't come out with a Savu using a 3310 sensor I've decided to give the ZA13 a try. Would like to pair it with a Zowie large soft cloth mouse pad like the Taito 3mm but will stick with this mat if I don't find something comprable.


----------



## auzcar

I've never really looked a the measurements before, just went by feel, but by these numbers the FK1/ZA11 should be just as wide as the Xai/Sensei? I measured my Sensei and it's about 57mm right in the middle. The FK1 feels a lot more narrow to me though. I'm at work so haven't got my FK1 at hand but I'm curious to see if these numbers really are correct. If they are I guess it's just the general shape and where the widest parts are located that makes the Xai/Sensei feel so much wider.


----------



## zealord

Damn I want that Zowie ZA11. Why did they increase the prices of their mice products?









59,99€ was already pretty expensive for a mouse imho, but a new mouse every two years that was reasonable. Now it's 64,99€ and even if it is just 5€ that may very well be enough to stop me from buying it.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Damn I want that Zowie ZA11. Why did they increase the prices of their mice products?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 59,99€ was already pretty expensive for a mouse imho, but a new mouse every two years that was reasonable. Now it's 64,99€ and even if it is just 5€ that may very well be enough to stop me from buying it.


True, but you have that return possibility. On another perspective, you can't put a price tag on comfort, if that's the only thing that works for you.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's what the ZA is supposed to be.


Different shape.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I've never really looked a the measurements before, just went by feel, but by these numbers the FK1/ZA11 should be just as wide as the Xai/Sensei? I measured my Sensei and it's about 57mm right in the middle. The FK1 feels a lot more narrow to me though. I'm at work so haven't got my FK1 at hand but I'm curious to see if these numbers really are correct. If they are I guess it's just the general shape and where the widest parts are located that makes the Xai/Sensei feel so much wider.


I think it also depends on the height and width of the butt, if it's wide enough, the front doesn't have to be that wide. For example, the Rival. The front is actually quite narrow, but the back is quite thick, which helps with stability and palm contact. Also, G303 if gripped more forward - the back/middle is wide, but the front isn't at all. It is still one of the better mice in terms of performance for me as a palmgripper.


----------



## ramraze

Zowiegear.dk will have ZA in stock by next week. Confirmed by their online support.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I think it also depends on the height and width of the butt, if it's wide enough, the front doesn't have to be that wide. For example, the Rival. The front is actually quite narrow, but the back is quite thick, which helps with stability and palm contact. Also, G303 if gripped more forward - the back/middle is wide, but the front isn't at all. It is still one of the better mice in terms of performance for me as a palmgripper.


Yeah, the wideness of the butt is probably the main reason it feels so much wider/bigger.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> Yeah, the wideness of the butt is probably the main reason it feels so much wider/bigger.


The zowie's butt is much wider in comparison to the middle & front of the zowie. Whereas the butt on the sensei isn't much wider than the middle.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> You dont need players to redesign OEM Stuff.


From what I seen, Mionix mice are not OEM. There are some products out there that look very similar to the Naos, but they are different. I would like to see if there is a mouse that looks just like the Castor that is for sale from someone else.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Different shape.


It's supposed to be an improved shape. It offers the same type of arch, but taller. I think it will feel very similar to the AM, yet give you a slant to the sides. If it feels like I think it would, I will use it over my AMs.


----------



## zeflow




----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I seen, Mionix mice are not OEM. There are some products out there that look very similar to the Naos, but they are different. I would like to see if there is a mouse that looks just like the Castor that is for sale from someone else.
> It's supposed to be an improved shape. It offers the same type of arch, but taller. I think it will feel very similar to the AM, yet give you a slant to the sides. If it feels like I think it would, I will use it over my AMs.


It does offer the same type of arch, but not in the middle like the AM. I prefer that is all.


----------



## boogdud

Hope the 1/2 button actuation is easier than the AM, those things were pretty stiff. Even the FK (which is still hard as nails compared to most other mice/omrons) was light compared to the AM switches.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Hope the 1/2 button actuation is easier than the AM, those things were pretty stiff. Even the FK (which is still hard as nails compared to most other mice/omrons) was light compared to the AM switches.


Did you have the black and red AM? That coating and plastic really stiffened up the shell. The white AM shell feels easier to actuate than my black AM shell.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Did you have the black and red AM? That coating and plastic really stiffened up the shell. The white AM shell feels easier to actuate than my black AM shell.


Had both black versions, the AM and the AM-GS and both were pretty hard to click. Pretty much Mico levels.

I can't imagine the coating has that much to do with it, my FG EC2 evo feels pretty much the same as all of my EC2s (blue, evo, 1a, etc.).

Since they're making sure to accommodate many different grips/sizes maybe we can look forward to some mice that are good for more than fps (lighter buttons) in the future.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Had both black versions, the AM and the AM-GS and both were pretty hard to click. Pretty much Mico levels.
> 
> I can't imagine the coating has that much to do with it, my FG EC2 evo feels pretty much the same as all of my EC2s (blue, evo, 1a, etc.).
> 
> Since they're making sure to accommodate many different grips/sizes maybe we can look forward to some mice that are good for more than fps (lighter buttons) in the future.


I took off the button piece from my black AM and tried it on my AM-FG, it felt stiffer, although slightly. Most people probably won't notice because the white Huano switches were stiff as is. The blue Huano switches should be better. I think the new shell of the ZA will improve the perception of the switches. I doubt it will feel like the D2FC-F-7N Omrons, those are so light and tend to wear out quickly because of it.


----------



## Arizonian

Just logged in to say the ZA's seem to be on sale at Zowiegear.com right now. If it wasn't international I would probably order it but I'm afraid if I need to return it or anything and the cost of shipping it to me and back and forth.

Guess I've got to wait on Amazon or Newegg in the U.S.


----------



## CorruptBE

Will most likely get a ZA12 if it's confirmed that they improved click latency.


----------



## CookieBook

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Will most likely get a ZA12 if it's confirmed that they improved click latency.


this.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Just logged in to say the ZA's seem to be on sale at Zowiegear.com right now. If it wasn't international I would probably order it but I'm afraid if I need to return it or anything and the cost of shipping it to me and back and forth.
> 
> Guess I've got to wait on Amazon or Newegg in the U.S.


I think Microcenter has an agreement with Zowie in the US now (according to zowie), they might get them fairly quick as well.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Will most likely get a ZA12 if it's confirmed that they improved click latency.


The G303 performance is so fast compared to the Zowie. I can quick scope so fast in CS that I don't even see the scope animation.


----------



## auzcar

I hope this mouse will be awesome since it's really stirred up by obsession of the perfect mouse. Right now I have three connected at the same time, EC1 which is large enough but with a slanted right side I can't grip/claw well enough, the FK1 which I can grip well but it's too small causing cramps after >1 hour and the Sensei Raw which has the perfect shape but with a sensor that's frustrating to use. Anyone in the same boat?


----------



## frewp

I love my FK1 but I just wish it was smaller. I claw grip and was thinking of trying the FK2 if the size difference is noticeable, I really wish there was an FK with the length of the ZA13, that size sounds nice but I don't know if clawing with a hump like that would be comfortable :s
What do you guys think?


----------



## Nilizum

I think you should try the ZA13 first.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> I love my FK1 but I just wish it was smaller. I claw grip and was thinking of trying the FK2 if the size difference is noticeable, I really wish there was an FK with the length of the ZA13, that size sounds nice but I don't know if clawing with a hump like that would be comfortable :s
> What do you guys think?


I'm primarily claw grip. When I'm gaming for longer periods of time my palm gets fatigued a bit. When gaming even if I try to stay in a palm grip, the moment I start spamming to fire my palm raises up and I'm back to claw.

Looks like the ZA's back end raises in the arch my palm would be in the air using a claw grip. I'm hoping the butt end will meet my palm enabling me to be able to rest it while maintaining claw grip. There's a lip on the sides which should provide better control while lifting and swiping, hope that's a good thing and not end up being a bad feel.

Hope latency issue has been addressed and I don't have problems using different switches and scroll wheel.


----------



## frewp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I'm primarily claw grip. When I'm gaming for longer periods of time my palm gets fatigued a bit. When gaming even if I try to stay in a palm grip, the moment I start spamming to fire my palm raises up and I'm back to claw.
> 
> Looks like the ZA's back end raises in the arch my palm would be in the air using a claw grip. I'm hoping the butt end will meet my palm enabling me to be able to rest it while maintaining claw grip. There's a lip on the sides which should provide better control while lifting and swiping, hope that's a good thing and not end up being a bad feel.
> 
> Hope latency issue has been addressed and I don't have problems using different switches and scroll wheel.


Yeah I may try out the ZA13 when it's on Amazon in US then.
I've heard about the click latency; I haven't noticed it when playing CS, but it's still something you wouldn't want in a mouse.
I'm not sure what if it's just because the Huano's or what, but I wish it was fixed as well.


----------



## mousefan

ZA11 ordered by gamersware.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I hope this mouse will be awesome since it's really stirred up by obsession of the perfect mouse. Right now I have three connected at the same time, EC1 which is large enough but with a slanted right side I can't grip/claw well enough, the FK1 which I can grip well but it's too small causing cramps after >1 hour and the Sensei Raw which has the perfect shape but with a sensor that's frustrating to use. Anyone in the same boat?


FK1 cramps my hand after longer sessions too, after ~2 hours I guess.
But the Sensei doesn't have enough space for ring finger and feels overall too small too.
EC1-A has the best palm grip shape I used. It's an extension of my arm.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> EC1-A has the best palm grip shape I used. It's an extension of my arm.


Then you know which mouse to stick with cause if it feels right it is right in such a case.


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Just logged in to say the ZA's seem to be on sale at Zowiegear.com right now. If it wasn't international I would probably order it but I'm afraid if I need to return it or anything and the cost of shipping it to me and back and forth.
> 
> Guess I've got to wait on Amazon or Newegg in the U.S.


zowiegear lead me to the .dk site where the ZA's are all out of stock. what sale price did you get?


----------



## LegoFarmer

If the ZA12 reviews are good, then I might give it a go tbh. I'll have to see.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> Yeah I may try out the ZA13 when it's on Amazon in US then.
> I've heard about the click latency; I haven't noticed it when playing CS, but it's still something you wouldn't want in a mouse.
> I'm not sure what if it's just because the Huano's or what, but I wish it was fixed as well.


It's a combination of factors: shell design, switches, MCU.


----------



## Nilizum

Can anyone who gets their hands on a ZA13 early report the sensor position? Thank.


----------



## LegoFarmer

So I fancy the WMO, what one will fit me best? Any ideas? Thanks


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> So I fancy the WMO, what one will fit me best? Any ideas? Thanks


The ZA12 is the closest in length, but the ZA11 would be better for width.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> The ZA12 is the closest in length, but the ZA11 would be better for width.


My hands are average, never had a problem with thinner mice. I'll probably get the ZA12 and see if it is good enough to replace my WMO.


----------



## ramraze

For me thinness doesn't cause discomfort, but hurts the aim quite a bit. Like fk2 vs kana v2 there is probably 10-20% accuracy difference on tracking targets


----------



## ramraze

I can imagine Elrick will show up in a week praising the hell out of the za. Then a week later trashing it for how bad it is







and rest will follow suit xD


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I can imagine Elrick will show up in a week praising the hell out of the za. Then a week later trashing it for how bad it is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and rest will follow suit xD


My relationship with Zowie is a love-hate. It is complicated. Lmao.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> My relationship with Zowie is a love-hate. It is complicated. Lmao.


For me shape and coating are the most important factor. If those are right then I don't mind the rest so much. A little to go so we can see.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> zowiegear lead me to the .dk site where the ZA's are all out of stock. what sale price did you get?


I never purchased but if I remember correctly it was 54.something Euro.

Please don't quote me on that price though.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> For me shape and coating are the most important factor. If those are right then I don't mind the rest so much. A little to go so we can see.


After using the 3090, 3310 and 3366 side by side, I would say shape is very important for consistency. The shape doesn't have to be perfect for you, it just can't be very bad (like a G302/3 is for me). Even though the 3310 isn't as good as the 3366, you can still perform well if the shape is good. If a shape is bad, yet has a 3366, you will be worse off overall.

I never liked the coatings mice have used for many years. They always wear off for me. Then I am left with cheap, dirty, smooth plastic. The only coating I liked was the gloss of the white Zowie mice.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> After using the 3090, 3310 and 3366 side by side, I would say shape is very important for consistency. The shape doesn't have to be perfect for you, it just can't be very bad (like a G302/3 is for me). Even though the 3310 isn't as good as the 3366, you can still perform well if the shape is good. If a shape is bad, yet has a 3366, you will be worse off overall.
> 
> I never liked the coatings mice have used for many years. They always wear off for me. Then I am left with cheap, dirty, smooth plastic. The only coating I liked was the gloss of the white Zowie mice.


I say shape is not that important with 3366 mice for me, g502 is not the shape i would like to get used to, but it fitted my hand immediately and i could start pwning in game quickly, that was a surprise, no need to get used to it or anything, sensor is so raw, i can't even... was coming back from 3310 3090 to mlt04 and i was happy, now when i move back to IME 3.0, i am not that happy anymore, instantly thinking about 3366 performance, and i think if i buy a different shape 3310 mouse again (had fk1), it will not be that good as 3366 mouse performance


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> After using the 3090, 3310 and 3366 side by side, I would say shape is very important for consistency. The shape doesn't have to be perfect for you, it just can't be very bad (like a G302/3 is for me). Even though the 3310 isn't as good as the 3366, you can still perform well if the shape is good. If a shape is bad, yet has a 3366, you will be worse off overall.


Couldn't agree more.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Couldn't agree more.


Agreed. Idk if anybody watched Hiko's stream yesterday, but he was using the EC2 evo (3090) and was landing impressive shots. It's more about getting used to the sensor, I think.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Agreed. Idk if anybody watched Hiko's stream yesterday, but he was using the EC2 evo (3090) and was landing impressive shots. It's more about getting used to the sensor, I think.


Well he just switched back to the EC2, he's getting the EC2-a in the mail soon.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Well he just switched back to the EC2, he's getting the EC2-a in the mail soon.


He was still great.







There are pros who play with certain steelseries laser mice that are great, but they don't switch because the mouse just works for them. Know what I mean?


----------



## jukkhop

Which of ZA 11-13 is closest to the IO 1.1? Does anyone have the dimensions for IO 1.1?


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jukkhop*
> 
> Which of ZA 11-13 is closest to the IO 1.1? Does anyone have the dimensions for IO 1.1?


I'd be interested in knowing this as well.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jukkhop*
> 
> Does anyone have the dimensions for IO 1.1?


The datasheet says: 126mm x 68mm x 39mm


----------



## RDno1

I'm so excited for the ZA13!!! If the button latency is fixed and the sensor position is still nice, it could be the perfect mouse for me. It's narrower than the Kinzu and almost as short.

I love Zowie for releasing 3 sizes and for releasing a small mouse with a great sensor. Take notes, every other peripheral company.


----------



## Ricey20

Amazon has direct links to them now. Currently unavailable but should be soon?

ZA11
http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA11-Gaming-Mouse-Pc/dp/B00WTD1YJM

ZA12
http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA12-GAMING-MOUSE-Pc/dp/B00WTE0YJ2

ZA13
http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA13-Gaming-Mouse-Pc/dp/B00WTE65PE


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Amazon has direct links to them now. Currently unavailable but should be soon?
> 
> ZA11
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA11-Gaming-Mouse-Pc/dp/B00WTD1YJM
> 
> ZA12
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA12-GAMING-MOUSE-Pc/dp/B00WTE0YJ2
> 
> ZA13
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA13-Gaming-Mouse-Pc/dp/B00WTE65PE


My favorite part, spam F5.


----------



## popups

I torn between the ZA11 or the ZA12. If the rear is as round as the FK I will have to go with the ZA12. I want the widest mouse, but the rear needs to be shaped more like an oval (similar to BST's mouse or the G100).


----------



## iceskeleton

The ZA12 looks good for me. Just hope it comes quick to Australian online stores, the EC-A series took a while I think.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Amazon has direct links to them now. Currently unavailable but should be soon?
> 
> ZA11
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA11-Gaming-Mouse-Pc/dp/B00WTD1YJM
> 
> ZA12
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA12-GAMING-MOUSE-Pc/dp/B00WTE0YJ2
> 
> ZA13
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-ZA13-Gaming-Mouse-Pc/dp/B00WTE65PE


Thank the lawwwddd. As soon as i can order damnit.


----------



## auzcar

I will be spamming F5 on my Gmail to hopefully see a notice from MaxFPS that they've sent the mouse. I'm set at next week though but hope is the last thing that leaves man I guess


----------



## Aventadoor

The shipping company Maxfps use sends out their shipments on thuesday and thursday. So hopefully I get it on friday if they have gotten them in-stock today.


----------



## auzcar

Well, assuming you live in Sweden the postal service doesn't work this friday at all since it's a holiday. If they send it tomorrow we'll have it next week


----------



## Aventadoor

Oh damn... I forgot it was 1st may on friday...


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Oh damn... I forgot it was 1st may on friday...


Yeah, worst timing ever! This almost ruins getting the day off work haha.


----------



## ramraze

Yup. I know that feeling. I always tell myself: If you want to order a new mouse and have a weekend session with it, never again order on wednesday or thursday







But in this case we can't do much.

Does maxfps.se have it in stock already?


----------



## auzcar

W
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Yup. I know that feeling. I always tell myself: If you want to order a new mouse and have a weekend session with it, never again order on wednesday or thursday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But in this case we can't do much.
> 
> Does maxfps.se have it in stock already?


They said the 29th was the date they got from their supplier but the date has been taken down from the product page (possibly automatically due to the date being today). It's still marked yellow as in "not in stock" though.

In my experience suppliers are always a bit optimistic when it comes to their dates so next week is probably what we'll have to settle for.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I'm modding my WMO before deciding on getting a ZA12.


----------



## thedogman

I wish they made one with the za13s length and the za11s width.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> I wish they made one with the za13s length and the za11s width.


Honestly I think most of the community would prefer all of them to be wider...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Honestly I think most of the community would prefer all of them to be wider...


I don't mind the width, but three, or even two mm can make that much of a difference.


----------



## thedogman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Honestly I think most of the community would prefer all of them to be wider...


Yea, I would like the za11 to be wider also, but a little shorter length wise.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Using just simple math, I think the ZA12 will resemble the WMO the most of the three models, so that's what my eye is on... I'd just hate to spend that money and see the 3366 starting to be used by other companies.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Using just simple math, I think the ZA12 will resemble the WMO the most of the three models, so that's what my eye is on... I'd just hate to spend that money and see the 3366 starting to be used by other companies.


I don't see Zowie moving to the 3366 anyway.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't see Zowie moving to the 3366 anyway.


I think they would, but it isn't a deal-breaker if they don't. Implementation>Sensor tbh. Many say the finalmouse performance is better than the two 3366 mice and it uses a 3310, so it is about implementation and finalmouse obviously did a stellar job.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I think they would, but it isn't a deal-breaker if they don't. Implementation>Sensor tbh. Many say the finalmouse performance is better than the two 3366 mice and it uses a 3310, so it is about implementation and finalmouse obviously did a stellar job.


They wouldn't want to use it because the requirement for drivers. People will complain a lot if they cannot use the settings of the 3366.

I doubt the Final Mouse implementation can beat the 3366 from Logitech. Maybe the diagonal accuracy could be better, but I don't see the response and cursor behavior being better than the 3366 hardware. Also, the CPI accuracy of the 3366 is amazing.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They wouldn't want to use it because the requirement for drivers. People will complain a lot if they cannot use the settings of the 3366.
> 
> I doubt the Final Mouse implementation can beat the 3366 from Logitech. Maybe the diagonal accuracy could be better, but I don't see the response and cursor behavior being better than the 3366 hardware. Also, the CPI accuracy of the 3366 is amazing.


Not really worthwhile to talk about hardware potential in relation to the 3366, as logitech are clearly missing something big that holds the potential of their mice back. The 4g, some finalmice, some auroras, and the KPM all beat the 3366 mice in terms of implementation.


----------



## dipanzan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The G303 performance is so fast compared to the Zowie. I can quick scope so fast in CS that I don't even see the scope animation.


If you have a Sensei or a XAI, can you please compare the click latency against the 303 using those mice. Thank you.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Not really worthwhile to talk about hardware potential in relation to the 3366, as logitech are clearly missing something big that holds the potential of their mice back. The 4g, some finalmice, some auroras, and the KPM all beat the 3366 mice in terms of implementation.


I don't understand what the DeathAdder or Final Mouse does that the G303 doesn't. From what I can tell, the 3310 has like 2ms of post processing that cannot be removed in the SROM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dipanzan*
> 
> If you have a Sensei or a XAI, can you please compare the click latency against the 303 using those mice. Thank you.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2420_20#post_23851066

I don't have a SteelSeries mouse. The only one I used was a Kana, but I sent that back. I doubt the Sensei or Xai can out perform the G303's button latency.


----------



## ramraze

Seems like next week it is, for ZA.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Seems like next week it is, for ZA.


Seems so







I would guess that they get it in stock next week so I will be satisfied enough if I have it before next weekend. From personal work experience I know how long these things can drag out for and how utterly wrong these estimated dates usually is.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I might just hold out on getting the ZA then if a new sensor is going to be released soon or the 3366 will be used by others.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I think they would, but it isn't a deal-breaker if they don't.


They never will, PCB redesign would be necessary due to different Casing, also Razer moved away from Cypress Encore III to Freescale when they switched to 3988, somebody else might be able to explain the exact technical reason, but i can imagine that higher Updaterates might be a problem for Encore III´s Architecture.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't understand what the DeathAdder or Final Mouse does that the G303 doesn't. From what I can tell, the 3310 has like 2ms of post processing that cannot be removed in the SROM.


I'm not clued in on the technical details of why one mouse performs better than another. And I've seen a wide variety of different suggestions. But ultimately, they feel significantly more accurate in game.

This relies on the assumption that nothing's been changed sensor-wise from the 502 to the 303, as well as the assumption that there is little to no variance in 3366 sensor performance. The mousetester graphs I've seen, as well as personal reports, back up these assumptions.

The 3366 was way over-hyped from the beginning due to comments made about the *potential* of the *architecture*, not the performance of the 502.


----------



## Aventadoor

Of all the mouse I have, the IME 3.0, 3366 & 3988 mouse feel most responsive.
Zowie's 3310 mouse feels the least responsive.
I notice it especially in scenario's where im holding an angle, and there's an enemy passing and I have to lock onto his head. Its like the Zowie takes some to get moving.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Of all the mouse I have, the IME 3.0, 3366 & 3988 mouse feel most responsive.
> Zowie's 3310 mouse feels the least responsive.
> I notice it especially in scenario's where im holding an angle, and there's an enemy passing and I have to lock onto his head. Its like the Zowie takes some to get moving.


I can sort of feel what you're feeling when playing with my 3.0 and EC1-A. I actually find my EC1-A to feel much better than my G502 without the drivers installed.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Of all the mouse I have, the IME 3.0, 3366 & 3988 mouse feel most responsive.
> Zowie's 3310 mouse feels the least responsive.
> I notice it especially in scenario's where im holding an angle, and there's an enemy passing and I have to lock onto his head. Its like the Zowie takes some to get moving.


Same for me.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Same for me.


It is things like that which make me want to keep my WMO and 3.0 for my main mice. I really hope FM does that ambidextrous version correctly. I think you probably talked to them about how to do it right. Hopefully the shame is similar to the WMO and has the same response or better as Max said.


----------



## Arizonian

Looks like Amazon has added some extra pics. Getting *ready*.









I picked up a Zowie G-CM black mouse pad from *Directron.com* today to pair it with the ZA13. Have some fun trying a new pad.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Looks like Amazon has added some extra pics. Getting *ready*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up a Zowie G-CM black mouse pad from *Directron.com* today to pair it with the ZA13. Have some fun trying a new pad.


I still sit here thinking of getting the ZA12 even though I've been using MLT 04 mice.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Looks like Amazon has added some extra pics. Getting *ready*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up a Zowie G-CM black mouse pad from *Directron.com* today to pair it with the ZA13. Have some fun trying a new pad.


haha i actually live pretty close to directron. chinese warehouse for computer hardware


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> haha i actually live pretty close to directron. chinese warehouse for computer hardware


Amazingly that pad is hard to get in normal US channels. No ZA's showing on their site. I just wanted a pad close to the Taito mid-size 3mm I like and try Zowie. Seems a bit loud with logo but in the G-CM series it does not come in straight black.

Directron.com was quick to respond with confirmation and simple instructions on the delivery process and tracking.









No ZA's listed on their site yet.


----------



## Nilizum

yea i got a zowie pad from there a while back because it was out of stock everywhere. just walked in and picked it up lmao


----------



## Arizonian

Just ordered my ZA13 from Amazon $64.99. Should arrive by May 5th.









*Go get'em*!


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Just ordered my ZA13 from Amazon $64.99. Should arrive by May 5th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Go get'em*!


Very nice! I'm jelly


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Just ordered my ZA13 from Amazon $64.99. Should arrive by May 5th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Go get'em*!


Grats









It says May 8th in Europe and only 1 shop lists them so far.

Anyone have a Zowie G-SR mousepad? Is it good?


----------



## Arizonian

I changed shipping to expedited and should arrive by May5th-8th


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I changed shipping to expedited and should arrive by May5th-8th


I saw it up on Amazon too. $80 is steep though. I may wait until amazon has some stock so shipping will be less. If i can wait. Lol


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Just ordered my ZA13 from Amazon $64.99. Should arrive by May 5th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Go get'em*!


Bye bye, G303 and Avior. Hello, ZA11.


----------



## wmoftw

going to wait to see some reviews, hopefully there's no flaws. I also hope someone compares it to a wmo

this might make a good LAN wmo replacement, plug and play is so necessary for it. $65 USD is kinda steep


----------



## zeflow

ZA12 ordered!


----------



## phamtom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Grats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says May 8th in Europe and only 1 shop lists them so far.
> 
> Anyone have a Zowie G-SR mousepad? Is it good?


I do, it has a lot of static friction and no feedback at al so it is awful IMO


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> I do, it has a lot of static friction and no feedback at al so it is awful IMO


damn that sounds terrible


----------



## Sencha

I put some impression in the SR thread. Not a great pad at all. Agree with phamtom.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I hope the ZA mice go down to $65, though $5 isn't normally something to complain about. I just think that $65+$7 shipping for the mouse is too much right now considering the finalmouse V2 is on its way and even the newer FM shells later on in the year and we never even know what the other companies are up to.


----------



## RyuLAN

I ordered one of each-- so all 3. YOLO, right? Sure, YOLO it is.

Should be here by Tuesday. As per usual, I'll probably giveaway whichever ones I decide not to use.

How difficult is it to test the click latency accurately? I'd love to see the results and since I'll have all 3 I can put them through the test if someone can explain the set up and link me to the software required.

-Ryu


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> I ordered one of each-- so all 3. YOLO, right? Sure, YOLO it is.
> 
> Should be here by Tuesday. As per usual, I'll probably giveaway whichever ones I decide not to use.
> 
> How difficult is it to test the click latency accurately? I'd love to see the results and since I'll have all 3 I can put them through the test if someone can explain the set up and link me to the software required.
> 
> -Ryu


I'll PM you link. When you get those mice, I would really appreciate it if you can compare them side to side and with some other mice like the WMO to the side of them. Thank you!


----------



## Nilizum

$72 so expensive


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> $72 so expensive


Agreed... That's why I'm cable swapping my WMO and throwing omrons in there with a painted shell. Cheaper and the WMO is legendary. I don't want to buy a new ambidextrous mouse until I see what other companies have to offer. I'm basically going to act like a woman playing the field...of mice.


----------



## boogdud

I want to order one, but I'm nervous about ambi buttons after the terrible time I had with the avior. Never had the issue with my fks but those buttons just look like I would be hitting them with my outside finger and those clicks annoy me to no end (even if the buttons aren't bound to anything).


----------



## Nilizum

69mm sensor position for the ZA13... No thx.


----------



## falcon26

Can anyone confirm that the ZA series do not have LED lighting? Also can the side button on the right side be disabled? I'm left handed and would use the left side buttons, My finger rests on the other side so I think I would be constantly pushing those buttons on the right by mistake. Also is the ZA13 smaller than the Razer Deathadder?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Can anyone confirm that the ZA series do not have LED lighting? Also can the side button on the right side be disabled? I'm left handed and would use the left side buttons, My finger rests on the other side so I think I would be constantly pushing those buttons on the right by mistake. Also is the ZA13 smaller than the Razer Deathadder?


Seeing as how it uses the exact same PCB as the FK1 and 2 (Or we can accurately assume that), the only LED will be at the bottom by the DPI shift button. With the FK mice (So this one, too), you choose what side of the mouse you use and it is defaulted at right hand. (You can make it left hand by reading the directions) and if you're right handed, the left side buttons will work, and the right ones will not. If you're left handed, then it is vice versa. Hope I helped!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> 69mm sensor position for the ZA13... No thx.


What about the ZA11 and ZA12?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuLAN*
> 
> As per usual, *I'll probably giveaway whichever ones I decide not to use.*
> 
> -Ryu


You're so kind to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I want to order one, but I'm nervous about ambi buttons after the terrible time I had with the avior. Never had the issue with my fks but those buttons just look like I would be hitting them with my outside finger and those clicks annoy me to no end (even if the buttons aren't bound to anything).


The Avior's buttons stick out more than any other mouse I have tried. The FK's buttons are quite flush with the shell. The ZA looks to have slightly extended buttons to help actuate them better than the FK's buttons.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> 69mm sensor position for the ZA13... No thx.


What do you expect from a mouse using the AM PCB design? The sensor remains in the same place. It's just the shell that is shortened. They can't put the sensor any more forward without turning it sideways or making a two PCB design.


----------



## bkchun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> 69mm sensor position for the ZA13... No thx.


as opposed to what?

aren't the effects of the sensor position (barring horizonal shifts) dependent on how you hold the mouse anyway?

excuse me if i'm being ignorant

edit: read your comprehensive post on the topic; never mind


----------



## falcon26

So no LED on the scroll wheel or the Zowie logo then?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> So no LED on the scroll wheel or the Zowie logo then?


Of course it'll have the zowie logo lol the new one, but no scroll LED.


----------



## Arizonian

I also thought the sensor positioning was the same since there's no indication in differences other then form sizes. Never considered pcb.

So how does these positioning of the sensors effect tracking in the ZA13 that's worse than the other two?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I also thought the sensor positioning was the same since there's no indication in differences other then form sizes. Never considered pcb.
> 
> So how does these positioning of the sensors effect tracking in the ZA13 that's worse than the other two?


I believe a lot of people want the sensor directly in the middle of the mouse. As long as it lines with my thumb okay, then it won't bother me.


----------



## falcon26

I mean, yes I know the zowie logo will be on the top of the mouse, but it will not light up correct? It will just be white in color....


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> I mean, yes I know the zowie logo will be on the top of the mouse, but it will not light up correct? It will just be white in color....


Yes, sir. Simplicity







No LED gimmicks with the Logo.


----------



## offshell

I ordered a ZA11 though I'll just have to see about the size since I'm pretty weird with my preferences there. My hands are like 20/21 cm but I preferred the EC2-A over the EC1-A but then preferred the FK1 over the FK2 even though I felt the FK1 was a bit long I couldn't deal with the height and width of the FK2. I think ideally I'd like something around 120 to 124mm long but quite a bit wider than any of the offerings. I try so many mice I just have no clue anymore


----------



## falcon26

Alright looks like I will order the ZA13. I want a small mouse comparable to the logitech G9....with no LEDS at all.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I ordered a ZA11 though I'll just have to see about the size since I'm pretty weird with my preferences there. My hands are like 20/21 cm but I preferred the EC2-A over the EC1-A but then preferred the FK1 over the FK2 even though I felt the FK1 was a bit long I couldn't deal with the height and width of the FK2. I think ideally I'd like something around 120 to 124mm long but quite a bit wider than any of the offerings. I try so many mice I just have no clue anymore


Tell me how you like it


----------



## H4rd5tyl3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I ordered a ZA11 though I'll just have to see about the size since I'm pretty weird with my preferences there. My hands are like 20/21 cm but I preferred the EC2-A over the EC1-A but then preferred the FK1 over the FK2 even though I felt the FK1 was a bit long I couldn't deal with the height and width of the FK2. I think ideally I'd like something around 120 to 124mm long but quite a bit wider than any of the offerings. I try so many mice I just have no clue anymore


Please let me know how you like it. I've gone through 2 Steel Series Sensei Raws with both the same scroll wheel problem and am desperately looking for a new mouse with similar attributes.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I believe a lot of people want the sensor directly in the middle of the mouse. As long as it lines with my thumb okay, then it won't bother me.


I believe this will be a non-issue for me. I hope. The size of the mouse would be more important how it feels in my hand and I will acclimate to the sensor and how it reacts I'm sure.


----------



## falcon26

Just ordered the ZA13 with expedited shipping, $89 out the door :-( My wife is going to have a fit when she finds out :-( I'm in CA I wonder how long it will take to get here...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Just ordered the ZA13 with expedited shipping, $89 out the door :-( My wife is going to have a fit when she finds out :-( I'm in CA I wonder how long it will take to get here...


Lol probably next day.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Just ordered the ZA13 with expedited shipping, $89 out the door :-( My wife is going to have a fit when she finds out :-( I'm in CA I wonder how long it will take to get here...


So that's the real reason you don't want LED lights drawing attention to your new mouse on the desktop.







JK.

If mine intercepts the package I will just thank her for buying my Father's Day gift early.









Update : Mine shows pre-shipment label created 1:13PM today. It says it's coming from Houston Texas.

It's my mouse pad from Directron which has connections in the U.S. LOL.


----------



## falcon26

LOL exactly! If it had LED's she would notice, but if it looks like a plain old mouse she will not


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> LOL exactly! If it had LED's she would notice, but if it looks like a plain old mouse she will not


Well hopefully that plain old shell is worth me spending the money on it... I'm doing somebody a favor in two weeks that takes like no effort, but it is a free $80. Maybe it is an omen to read reviews and buy it after xD Can anybody confirm? lmao


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Well hopefully that plain old shell is worth me spending the money on it... I'm doing somebody a favor in two weeks that takes like no effort, but it is a free $80. Maybe it is an omen to read reviews and buy it after xD Can anybody confirm? lmao


Sometimes that's the fun of being early adopter. I'll let everyone know when I receive mine for those waiting.

At least we're only talking $65 and not $700 on a graphics card before reviews come out. I paid for being an early adopter recently, with two GTX970's and come to learn about the VRAM allocation issues after the fact. This mouse will be small cheese in comparison.


----------



## falcon26

LOL I remember when I bought my GTX 980, needless to say my wife was not too pleased  Had to do a lot of ass kissing that whole month...


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Just ordered the ZA13 with expedited shipping, $89 out the door :-( My wife is going to have a fit when she finds out :-( I'm in CA I wonder how long it will take to get here...


They ship from somewhere in the US correct?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Lol probably next day.


More than likely this. Lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> LOL I remember when I bought my GTX 980, needless to say my wife was not too pleased  Had to do a lot of ass kissing that whole month...


Sounds like fun. Lol giggity.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> They ship from somewhere in the US correct?.


If you're ordering from Amazon/Rexflo I think it states that they ship from California but I don't remember where I saw that bit of information.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> If you're ordering from Amazon/Rexflo I think it states that they ship from California but I don't remember where I saw that bit of information.


I saw the same thing.


----------



## Solrial

http://www.hltv.org/gallery/view/42265

glossy FK?


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solrial*
> 
> http://www.hltv.org/gallery/view/42265
> 
> glossy FK?


Yeah custom paint job though










__
http://instagr.am/p/yUro3wpWha%2F/


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solrial*
> 
> http://www.hltv.org/gallery/view/42265
> 
> glossy FK?


It looks like my mouse.


----------



## Nilizum

Popups I've opened the mouse before and they had a lot of room to shift it down on the AM, FK etc. The only change would be plunger length to actuate the switches. In fact, if they move it down actuation would actually be better due to leverage.

To everyone else, if you really like this shape, go for it, but to compensate for the imbalanced sensor position will have to lower your sensitivity substantially compared to a mouse with a more normalized position. And if that's the case, you will notice a disparity from less angular movement.

I mean, this is for the people that want to commit to their mouse / sensitivity at a more usable level. there's adaptation, but there's also adaptation worth adapting to.

if you guys like this shape, what about that one guy that wanted to do the kickstart? Guy said 63mm on that design, which is pretty optimal for that shape. Wider mouse and side buttons, omron instead of huanos. I think he said something about May, so I'd wait it out, especially if $72 for a mouse when there are better solutions for cheaper.


----------



## iceskeleton

He already has the kickstarter up, but it's not being developed as a product. He just did it to get a custom mouse for himself at first, and this kickstarter with a $30,000 goal as an afterthought (maybe it was to scam the factory, who knows)

Sad because it looks like a good mouse, better than the aurora.


----------



## Venrar

Which one is closest to the 1.1/sensei?


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> He already has the kickstarter up, but it's not being developed as a product. He just did it to get a custom mouse for himself at first, and this kickstarter with a $30,000 goal as an afterthought (maybe it was to scam the factory, who knows)
> 
> Sad because it looks like a good mouse, better than the aurora.


I was watching that kickstarter but it's not really looking good at the moment.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Popups I've opened the mouse before and they had a lot of room to shift it down on the AM, FK etc. The only change would be plunger length to actuate the switches. In fact, if they move it down actuation would actually be better due to leverage.
> 
> To everyone else, if you really like this shape, go for it, but to compensate for the imbalanced sensor position will have to lower your sensitivity substantially compared to a mouse with a more normalized position. And if that's the case, you will notice a disparity from less angular movement.
> 
> I mean, this is for the people that want to commit to their mouse / sensitivity at a more usable level. there's adaptation, but there's also adaptation worth adapting to.
> 
> if you guys like this shape, what about that one guy that wanted to do the kickstart? Guy said 63mm on that design, which is pretty optimal for that shape. Wider mouse and side buttons, omron instead of huanos. I think he said something about May, so I'd wait it out, especially if $72 for a mouse when there are better solutions for cheaper.


I like a sensor to be as far forward as possible so I don't have to move my arm much with the sensitivity that gives me the best precision. I will use the arm for the main movement and the wrist for precise movement. I usually place the sensor closer to my fingertips to achieve that, but I want to place the butt of the mouse all the way into my palm as it rests on the pad. This makes tracking easier for me and helps with hitting dodging players.

If a design has a single PCB the scroll wheel will be further back. I want it to be further forward because I use my middle finger to scroll. The further forward the more comfortable it is.


----------



## RDno1

Is it 69 mm from the front or from the back of the mouse? How do you know? And how does that compare to the original FK/the FK2?

It would probably be perfect for me if the ZA13 felt similar to the Kinzu shape-wise with the sensor being a little closer towards the front.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Sad because it looks like a good mouse, better than the aurora.


In what way?


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> In what way?


Shape, switches, lift off distance, sensor, driverless.....


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Shape, switches, lift off distance, sensor, driverless.....


You'll get a lot of disagreement on the shape being better. Since it's driverless you won't get any of the benefits of a 3310 over 3090. And his mouse is going to be wrecked with all the same sensor performance and QC issues that the Finalmouse had.


----------



## bond10

Can't wait for this mouse. I hope the coating will be good for dry hands. I really liked the coating on the FK1.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Can't wait for this mouse. I hope the coating will be good for dry hands. I really liked the coating on the FK1.


I have dry hands too and I'm hoping the same thing. I'm using the Roccat Kone Pure Optical and the slimy coating has been the only thing holding it back from being a great mouse. The Savu has been my favorite shape so far.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You'll get a lot of disagreement on the shape being better. Since it's driverless you won't get any of the benefits of a 3310 over 3090. And his mouse is going to be wrecked with all the same sensor performance and QC issues that the Finalmouse had.


My bad...didnt know we were talking about that sensei clone


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> My bad...didnt know we were talking about that sensei clone


So you think the general shape of the ZA is better than the Aurora? Can you be specific?

Also, you think the sensor's gonna perform better or are you just talking about general 3310 vs 3090? Because the comparison with the sensei clone applies there too, IE: driverless doesn't give you the benefits.


----------



## popups

I was going to order the ZA, but I saw that Filip has a white FK2. If Zowie is planning to release white glossy mice again I can't buy anything from Zowie until they release those. I guess I will wait on the Castor until Zowie makes a statement about their plans for a white gloss version of the ZA.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I was going to order the ZA, but I saw that Filip has a white FK2. If Zowie is planning to release white glossy mice again I can't buy anything from Zowie until they release those. I guess I will wait on the Castor until Zowie makes a statement about their plans for a white gloss version of the ZA.


If you're talking about neo, then somebody mentioned it was a custom paint job. If I were you, I would email Zowie's support and ask if they plan to release a glossy version. That could accomplish two things: 1. Maybe they will actually tell you. 2. If not, you at least showed that there is some demand for it.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> If you're talking about neo, then somebody mentioned it was a custom paint job. If I were you, I would email Zowie's support and ask if they plan to release a glossy version. That could accomplish two things: 1. Maybe they will actually tell you. 2. If not, you at least showed that there is some demand for it.


I emailed them recently and they said they have no plans to do a glossy line. I think the matte just out sells the glossy by so much they're not interested in providing. Shame


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I was going to order the ZA, but I saw that Filip has a white FK2. If Zowie is planning to release white glossy mice again I can't buy anything from Zowie until they release those. I guess I will wait on the Castor until Zowie makes a statement about their plans for a white gloss version of the ZA.


That would indeed be an easy paint job. Btw, I doubt that the Castor will give you better grip. Their rubberized coating is as matte as it gets. There is no grip with it.


----------



## bovi77

seems like pashabiceps is using the ZA now at the FACEIT lan finals


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Sometimes that's the fun of being early adopter. I'll let everyone know when I receive mine for those waiting.
> 
> At least we're only talking $65 and not $700 on a graphics card before reviews come out. I paid for being an early adopter recently, with two GTX970's and come to learn about the VRAM allocation issues after the fact. This mouse will be small cheese in comparison.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> seems like pashabiceps is using the ZA now at the FACEIT lan finals


Lol I'm watching it. I think he is, too...


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> seems like pashabiceps is using the ZA now at the FACEIT lan finals


How can you tell? Are you sure it's not a Kinzu? He used to use a Kinzu before, so him using a ZA13 would give me hope.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> How can you tell? Are you sure it's not a Kinzu? He used to use a Kinzu before, so him using a ZA13 would give me hope.


look closely


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> look closely


I think you're right. The question is: What size?
EDIT: Nope, it's a Kinzu.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I think you're right. The question is: What size?


I believe he used the FK1, so probably the ZA11.


----------



## sonskusa

pretty obvious steelseries logo on the butt, so no not a za series


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> pretty obvious steelseries logo on the butt, so no not a za series


Yeah, they just zoomed in on pasza. It's a Kinzu V2. EDIT: Yeah, or maybe V3.


----------



## Aventadoor

Pasza wouldent change, he been using Kinzu since 4 ever...
I think its the Kinzu V3 tho


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Pasza wouldent change, he been using Kinzu since 4 ever...
> I think its the Kinzu V3 tho


Meh, whatever. I just hope the ZA series is good lol. If not, I still have my WMO.


----------



## Deadeye




----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*


ah my bad.. maybe got too excited LOL


----------



## Deadeye

Does any one know is byali using FK1?


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*
> 
> Does any one know is byali using FK1?


He's using the Kinzu V3, before that he had the Xai.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> If you're talking about neo, then somebody mentioned it was a custom paint job. If I were you, I would email Zowie's support and ask if they plan to release a glossy version. That could accomplish two things: 1. Maybe they will actually tell you. 2. If not, you at least showed that there is some demand for it.


I have bothered Zowie Gear about continuing to sell white glossy mice before the FK was released. I have been waiting since.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> That would indeed be an easy paint job. Btw, I doubt that the Castor will give you better grip. Their rubberized coating is as matte as it gets. There is no grip with it.


I would buy the Castor over the ZA because I don't know if the Castor will be any good. I know what to expect from the ZA. If I don't like the Castor I can return it and then settle on a ZA11 or ZA12.

I had my monitor set a certain way, it made me think the CPI button was the same color as the shell. So I figured it was from Zowie, not some individual.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> seems like pashabiceps is using the ZA now at the FACEIT lan finals


Pasha has been using a Kinzu for many years. I wonder if he has tried the ZA13 yet.


----------



## detto87

I'm kinda worried about the weight placement of this new ZA lineup. All the weight seems to be in the lower third of the mouse.

Also I'm beginning to question if a palm grip is even desirable with an ambidextrous shape. I mean, if the shape is good it works, of course. But *I kinda doubt that it would be better for palm grip than an ergonomic shaped palm grip mouse.*

Reason is, the hand always has a slight tilt or slant to the outer side (right hand tilts to the righ side). That's why such mice exist after all: http://www.computer-posture.co.uk/images/Anker-2.4G-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical-Mouse.gif


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I'm kinda worried about the weight placement of this new ZA lineup. All the weight seems to be in the lower third of the mouse.
> 
> Also I'm beginning to question if a palm grip is even desirable with an ambidextrous shape. I mean, if the shape is good it works, of course. But *I kinda doubt that it would be better for palm grip than an ergonomic shaped palm grip mouse.*
> 
> Reason is, the hand always has a slight tilt or slant to the outer side (right hand tilts to the righ side). That's why such mice exist after all: http://www.computer-posture.co.uk/images/Anker-2.4G-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical-Mouse.gif


MaximilianKohler had brought this up. He said that the way they basically made the FK series palmable in the ZA series was a poor approach because it just ruins the weight balance and only makes it usable in palm grip. I agree with him about how the mouse just had to be wider to make it palmable. It would keep the weight balance distributed as opposed to arching the butt of the mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I'm kinda worried about the weight placement of this new ZA lineup. All the weight seems to be in the lower third of the mouse.
> 
> Also I'm beginning to question if a palm grip is even desirable with an ambidextrous shape. I mean, if the shape is good it works, of course. But *I kinda doubt that it would be better for palm grip than an ergonomic shaped palm grip mouse.*
> 
> Reason is, the hand always has a slight tilt or slant to the outer side (right hand tilts to the righ side). That's why such mice exist after all: http://www.computer-posture.co.uk/images/Anker-2.4G-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical-Mouse.gif


If I were to design a mouse, just for my grip, it wouldn't be symmetrical. It would look symmetrical in pictures because the shape will be subtle.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> MaximilianKohler had brought this up. He said that the way they basically made the FK series palmable in the ZA series was a poor approach because it just ruins the weight balance and only makes it usable in palm grip. I agree with him about how the mouse just had to be wider to make it palmable. It would keep the weight balance distributed as opposed to arching the butt of the mouse.


I disagree that a wider FK would make it ideal for a palm grip.

I don't see the weight balance being noticeably moved from the center to the rear. That would be more dependent on where the side buttons' PCB is placed.

What's wrong with the FK1 over the ZA?

The ZA is supposed to be more akin to the AM than the FK is. That is why the AM was discontinued and the FK is still being made.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/220_20#post_23842631


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> MaximilianKohler had brought this up. He said that the way they basically made the FK series palmable in the ZA series was a poor approach because it just ruins the weight balance and only makes it usable in palm grip. I agree with him about how the mouse just had to be wider to make it palmable. It would keep the weight balance distributed as opposed to arching the butt of the mouse.


I would wait until you guys actually have it in your hand. There are many other things that affect the distribution of weight apart from the shape of the shell. The shell could be thicker at the front, too. I, for one, like the approach in theory, but I want to see how it actually feels. It might be amazing, but it might also be terrible.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I would wait until you guys actually have it in your hand. There are many other things that affect the distribution of weight apart from the shape of the shell. The shell could be thicker at the front, too. I, for one, like the approach in theory, but I want to see how it actually feels. It might be amazing, but it might also be terrible.


Yes. Still tempted to get it.


----------



## Aventadoor

I dont really care much of the weight balance of the mouse.
The biggest "issue" I can see with this mouse is that the "top shell" is too narrow.
Hopefully I get it next week...


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I disagree that a wider FK would make it ideal for a palm grip.


Not ideal. But palmable. Like LegoFarmer said.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I would wait until you guys actually have it in your hand. There are many other things that affect the distribution of weight apart from the shape of the shell. The shell could be thicker at the front, too. I, for one, like the approach in theory, but I want to see how it actually feels. It might be amazing, but it might also be terrible.


Yeah. Should definitely wait for tests first. I don't quite see how it could be terrible. It looks similar to a WMO shape (though butt is more pronounced than the rest of the shell). Besides the side button placement and weight balance, the width of the mouse is the third aspect that might not fit my hand. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the EC1-A though which fits like a glove for me in palm grip (side button placement is too far back though).


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Not ideal. But palmable. Like LegoFarmer said.
> Yeah. Should definitely wait for tests first. I don't quite see how it could be terrible. It looks similar to a WMO shape (though butt is more pronounced than the rest of the shell). Besides the side button placement and weight balance, the width of the mouse is the third aspect that might not fit my hand. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the EC1-A though which fits like a glove for me in palm grip (side button placement is too far back though).


I love the WMO. If this fits similarly in my hand, it could very well replace my WMO... It will either be a genius design by zowie, or just disappointment. It is hard to tell. I currently own the EC1-A for palm and claw grip, but the bottom isn't even on mine. It feels unusable lol. Still using it over my logibrick g502


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I don't quite see how it could be terrible.


Some mice just cramp your hands for seemingly no good reason. It doesn't even have to be terrible in general, but it might be terrible for me. I didn't like the length of my FK until I "modded" it. I also felt it was too flat, so the ZA13 might actually be a perfect fit for me since it is both higher and shorter than the original FK, but you never know until you try it.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I love the WMO. If this fits similarly in my hand, it could very well replace my WMO... It will either be a genius design by zowie, or just disappointment. It is hard to tell. I currently own the EC1-A for palm and claw grip, but the bottom isn't even on mine. It feels unusable lol. Still using it over my logibrick g502


wheel mouse optical is best mouse optical


----------



## Solrial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> He's using the Kinzu V3, before that he had the Xai.


IIRC He's using either EC1-A or EC2-A at ESEA LAN Final. Don't know about FACEIT, I barely watched the tournament.


----------



## Jalal

They use bots anyway. Mouse for desktop. Esports.


----------



## auzcar

It's marked as "in stock" on MaxFPS.se's page now so I guess they got them in just before closing today. I haven't got an email confirming they've shipped it yet so I guess they'll start sending them out tomorrow.

EDIT: Just got the tracking number on my email so unless anything unfortunate happens wednesday should be the day.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> It's marked as "in stock" on MaxFPS.se's page now so I guess they got them in just before closing today. I haven't got an email confirming they've shipped it yet so I guess they'll start sending them out tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT: Just got the tracking number on my email so unless anything unfortunate happens wednesday should be the day.


HYPE


----------



## ramraze

Just saw the green light on the maxfps.se page, as well. Keep us posted









Hype indeed.


----------



## auzcar

Please don't bash my photo editing skills too much now guys haha. I made this at work on some online photo editor from the picture on Zowie's website showing both the FK1 and the ZA11 side by side. Assuming they were both in the same scale, which it obviously seems like, the difference in height and ass is quite noticeable.


----------



## ramraze

Yay! Shows green light in my local shop!!Instabuy. If all goes well, I'll get it Wednesday or Thursday as well.

My reaction to it :






















1:50 - 2:21


----------



## Aventadoor

I just pray that the clicks arent too stiff


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I just pray that the clicks arent too stiff


Tbh FK1 and FK2 had already quite decent clicks. Not for MMO but still way better than FK and AM. So they can't be worse 8)


----------



## Aventadoor

I thought the FK1 had terrible clicks. So i'm not so sure.
I have a glossy white AM which got much better clicks


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I thought the FK1 had terrible clicks. So i'm not so sure.
> I have a glossy white AM which got much better clicks


In that case it's hit and miss. For me FK1 and FK2 were completely fine. I even preferred them to some mushy Omrons.


----------



## daav1d

I got a mail yesterday from maxfps saying the order has been sent. I ordered all three 11, 12 and 13. I could maybe post som pictures if anyone want to know anything special, but my camera is freaking terrible.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I got a mail yesterday from maxfps saying the order has been sent. I ordered all three 11, 12 and 13. I could maybe post som pictures if anyone want to know anything special, but my camera is freaking terrible.


Yes, please. Do you have some other mice to do comparison shots? I would love to see ZA13 vs Kinzu.


----------



## m1hka

Would like to see of ZA11 vs Intellimouse 1.1a and ZA12 vs Kana comparison shots.


----------



## falcon26

I get my ZA13 tomorrow. Or possibly today.


----------



## auzcar

The Swedish postal service are having problems which are causing delays, so yeah, great timing as always haha.


----------



## Ufasas

I rebought fk 2013, somebody used it heavily, is there a chance to know which date was it released using serial number so i can check how old is this mouse? i cleaned the oil and dust, it looks like ***king new! bought for nostalgic reasons and reviews maybe, and i think wheel is very decent in fk2013, and stiff mouse1 mouse2 clicks after somebody used it heavily are good to press now!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> I rebought fk 2013, somebody used it heavily, is there a chance to know which date was it released using serial number so i can check how old is this mouse? i cleaned the oil and dust, it looks like ***king new! bought for nostalgic reasons and reviews maybe, and i think wheel is very decent in fk2013, and stiff mouse1 mouse2 clicks after somebody used it heavily are good to press now!


Sorry, but what has this to do with the thread?







Why don't you ask the person how old the mouse is?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Yes, please. Do you have some other mice to do comparison shots? I would love to see ZA13 vs Kinzu.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> Would like to see of ZA11 vs Intellimouse 1.1a and ZA12 vs Kana comparison shots.


I have a Kinzuadder, Sensei and the Newman GX. My girlfriend got my Kana. I also have WMO, 1.1, 3.0, Rival, Deathadder, FK, AM, EC1, EC2, Alcor, Avior, Naos, Ikari, G400, Abyssus, Qpad OM-75, G100s, G302... I might have missed some mice as well, I can't remember at the moment.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I have a Kinzuadder, Sensei and the Newman GX. My girlfriend got my Kana. I also have WMO, 1.1, 3.0, Rival, Deathadder, FK, AM, EC1, EC2, Alcor, Avior, Naos, Ikari, G400, Abyssus, Qpad OM-75, G100s, G302... I might have missed some mice as well, I can't remember at the moment.


FK and AM might be interesting to see as well, but I still would appreciate Kinzuadder vs ZA13 the most.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I'd like to see ZA12 vs WMO


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I'm kinda worried about the weight placement of this new ZA lineup. All the weight seems to be in the lower third of the mouse.
> 
> Also I'm beginning to question if a palm grip is even desirable with an ambidextrous shape. I mean, if the shape is good it works, of course. But *I kinda doubt that it would be better for palm grip than an ergonomic shaped palm grip mouse.*
> 
> Reason is, the hand always has a slight tilt or slant to the outer side (right hand tilts to the righ side). That's why such mice exist after all: http://www.computer-posture.co.uk/images/Anker-2.4G-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical-Mouse.gif


The slanted sides of the IE 3.0 and similar mice do a few things:

1. They make it so your hand has to be the perfect size and thickness, or the mouse will be unusable.
2. Even if it fits into your hand perfectly, that kind of slanted side gives your palm nothing to grip onto when lifting the mouse.

For me, ambi mice are the best for every grip.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The slanted sides of the IE 3.0 and similar mice do a few things:
> 
> 1. They make it so your hand has to be the perfect size and thickness, or the mouse will be unusable.
> 2. Even if it fits into your hand perfectly, that kind of slanted side gives your palm nothing to grip onto when lifting the mouse.
> 
> For me, ambi mice are the best for every grip.


This.


----------



## bond10

It would be cool if zowie created a trial package with plastic molds of all their mice. I don't want to buy all three to figure out which size I want and send the other two back, such a hassle for both parties.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The slanted sides of the IE 3.0 and similar mice do a few things:
> 
> 1. They make it so your hand has to be the perfect size and thickness, or the mouse will be unusable.
> 2. Even if it fits into your hand perfectly, that kind of slanted side gives your palm nothing to grip onto when lifting the mouse.
> 
> For me, ambi mice are the best for every grip.


1. Yeah, I noticed that immediately when I tested the DeathAdder (Chroma). I cannot use it. It's just too ... weirdly shaped for my hand.
2. How can a palm grip something?







I can lift the EC1 easily although it is a big ergonomic mouse that fills my hand.

I still do like the WMO butt the best though.


----------



## Sencha

Just pre-ordered with overclockers uk. They got free mouse bungee and a bottle of lube or something. Fun times.


----------



## auzcar

It seems i'll be getting mine today after all. I don't have more than 1-2 hours to test it tonight though so only first impressions but I suspect most if not all Swedes that pre-ordered from MaxFPS will get theirs today as well.


----------



## Aventadoor

Mine is already in Oslo, so if you swede's dont get it today... /shame on swedish postal service








Usually it takes 2-3 days for me to get a package from Maxfps, which is pretty fast imo


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Mine is already in Oslo, so if you swede's dont get it today... /shame on swedish postal service
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually it takes 2-3 days for me to get a package from Maxfps, which is pretty fast imo


Well, they've been known to mess up so I wouldn't be too surprised haha. Not too long ago they had an incident where someone had sent a pack of flour and they thought it was drugs if I remember correctly, anyway this caused a couple of days delay on a lot of letters/packages haha.

They do a good job altogether though, I shouldn't be too harsh.


----------



## ramraze

I'm in the same timeframe. Tomorrow to Friday.


----------



## discoprince

can't wait to see some first impressions/reviews.

really on the fence about this one.


----------



## auzcar

You can say that again! I'm just a bit worried that I've hyped this a bit too much for myself and that it'll be a disappointment because of that. Even though I'm 100% sure that this shape will be a step up for me compared to the FK1 I'm still worried that my hand will be cramping.


----------



## Jiisus

So you swedes are telling me that maxfps got za last week, but still you guys don't have them. Meanwhile shop here in Finland got them yesterday and mine arrives tomorrow. 













Jokes aside, I should be able to post info about ZA12 tomorrow, just tell here what you guys want to see/hear. I only have DA Chroma and WMO, so can't deliver lots of comparisons. One thing I will surely do is button lag test DA vs ZA.


----------



## Aventadoor

Im not swedish, I get mine tomorrow, from Maxfps


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> You can say that again! I'm just a bit worried that I've hyped this a bit too much for myself and that it'll be a disappointment because of that. Even though I'm 100% sure that this shape will be a step up for me compared to the FK1 I'm still worried that my hand will be cramping.


I'm not worried about hand cramping, but shaky aim, like with all the rest of the thin mice. I don't understand why FK1 and Kana v2 feel so different. On paper they should have similar dimensions but in reality with the Kana v2 im much more on point, even though I like the shape of the FK/ZA more, due to the front. Xai shape is another beast, though.
Is it exaggeration from Zowie? Is it the width of the hill of the mouse?Is it the butt of the Kana v2 that is actually wider from the part where it touches your hand? I don't know...

Anyways, big hopes for Za. If it is a fail then oh well.. go back to Savu and wait for Castor/some unconfirmed mice.

On a side note, I'm also located in Finland so I'll probably get my Za 11 tomorrow.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jiisus*
> 
> So you swedes are telling me that maxfps got za last week, but still you guys don't have them. Meanwhile shop here in Finland got them yesterday and mine arrives tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jokes aside, I should be able to post info about ZA12 tomorrow, just tell here what you guys want to see/hear. I only have DA Chroma and WMO, so can't deliver lots of comparisons. One thing I will surely do is button lag test DA vs ZA.


Haha! MaxFPS said that they would get them in last wednesday but actually got them in late this Monday so that's why it's taken so long. Either MaxFPS had the wrong info or they were just sneaky to get most of the pre-orders.


----------



## Ino.

Mine did arrive today (from caseking.de), apparently it was delivered to a neighbour. So I might be able to post something tonight.


----------



## Vorsplummi

Quote:


> I don't understand why FK1 and Kana v2 feel so different


FK1 is considerable bigger. FK/FK2 is much more closer to Kana shape. I own all three and I prefer Kana/FK2 over FK1.

My local retailer seem to have ZA-series on their stock. Too bad these cost so much. I understand plastic prices has gone up but still, too expensive to just try out.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I don't understand why FK1 and Kana v2 feel so different. On paper they should have similar dimensions but in reality with the Kana v2 im much more on point, even though I like the shape of the FK/ZA more, due to the front.


Yeah it gotta be the butt mainly and also it feels like the top part is wider on the Kana/Sensei compared to the FK-series. I guess it fills out the palm better and offer better support. If the Kana V2 had two thumb buttons on each side it would be my main mouse, even though I would've liked the Xai-shape even more.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Mine did arrive today (from caseking.de), apparently it was delivered to a neighbour. So I might be able to post something tonight.


Sorry mate I'm going to continue using it till at least the weekend


----------



## falcon26

I get mine today. Will check it out after work. Its 7 am here now I'll be home about 4 pm....


----------



## sonskusa

Just got the ZA13, first thing is the clicks on this mouse are VERY different from my ec2-a, ec1 clr, and fk. Generally they feel more responsive-- a little lighter, less pre-travel, and stronger recoil. It's a big improvement over the others IMO. Mouse wheel scroll feels slightly less mushy than the ec2-a, also I don't unintentionally click middle mouse button while scrolling down like I do with the ec2-a. It's a bit rear-heavy but not as bad as the 303. Shape I'm undecided on, will play more with it today. But yeah, first observation is that the mechanics are much better than my other 3 zowies.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Just got the ZA13, first thing is the clicks on this mouse are VERY different from my ec2-a, ec1 clr, and fk. Generally they feel more responsive-- a little lighter, less pre-travel, and stronger recoil. It's a big improvement over the others IMO. Mouse wheel scroll feels slightly less mushy than the ec2-a, also I don't unintentionally click middle mouse button while scrolling down like I do with the ec2-a. It's a bit rear-heavy but not as bad as the 303. Shape I'm undecided on, will play more with it today. But yeah, first observation is that the mechanics are much better than my other 3 zowies.


That's very encouraging. Hope the 11 is the same.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Sorry, but what has this to do with the thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you ask the person how old the mouse is?


It will have if i buy ZA and compare both

Dunno, some people ask me serial number of the mouse i am selling, and they check warranty left with it, i was just close to this forum than person


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Have all three on order from Rexflo. Can take comparison pics/answer questions when they arrive if someone doesn't beat me to it.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Have all three on order from Rexflo. Can take comparison pics/answer questions when they arrive if someone doesn't beat me to it.


Cool beans, dude!


----------



## Vorsplummi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Have all three on order from Rexflo. Can take comparison pics/answer questions when they arrive if someone doesn't beat me to it.


That would be appreciated. If you could also include FK/Kana/WMO/Banana for scale.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Need those ZA12 pics against WMO ;P Hope you guys are enjoying the new mice.


----------



## auzcar

I've just picked my ZA11 up and held it in my hand, still need to go back and finish up at work before I can test it for real. Click feels better I agree with that, not much lighter though, but a little bit at least. The height difference is very noticeable, it really is a huge difference compared to the FK1. The build quality on the scroll wheel on mine is definitely a disappointment though, if I shake it it rattles just a little bit, although I have to shake it pretty hard. It's the same problem they had before, I can press it to the side just a little bit as well. I'm one of those who actually really liked the scroll wheel on the FK1 and most of their other mice, I would probably like this too if it didn't rattle. I might've gotten unlucky though, let's hear some more impressions from more people before we bash too much on Zowie.

Without having tested it for real I think that this shape will work much better for me compared to the FK1 so I'm still really eager to test it.


----------



## a_ak57

I'd appreciate pics showcasing someone gripping the mouse compared to the closest FK (i.e. comparing FK1 and ZA11) or some similar mice. Or at least hearing a description of how the larger butt changes your grip on the mouse, like if your fingers sit back farther or whatever. Basically, going back to a post I made earlier about how someone who likes FK1 length may be fine with the ZA12 since the arc length is longer and the butt may make your hand/fingers sit back a bit further etc.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I'd appreciate pics showcasing someone gripping the mouse compared to the closest FK (i.e. comparing FK1 and ZA11) or some similar mice. Or at least hearing a description of how the larger butt changes your grip on the mouse, like if your fingers sit back farther or whatever. Basically, going back to a post I made earlier about how someone who likes FK1 length may be fine with the ZA12 since the arc length is longer and the butt may make your hand/fingers sit back a bit further etc.


FK2 and ZA12 and such, yeah. Sounds good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I've just picked my ZA11 up and held it in my hand, still need to go back and finish up at work before I can test it for real. Click feels better I agree with that, not much lighter though, but a little bit at least. The height difference is very noticeable, it really is a huge difference compared to the FK1. The build quality on the scroll wheel on mine is definitely a disappointment though, if I shake it it rattles just a little bit, although I have to shake it pretty hard. It's the same problem they had before, I can press it to the side just a little bit as well. I'm one of those who actually really liked the scroll wheel on the FK1 and most of their other mice, I would probably like this too if it didn't rattle. I might've gotten unlucky though, let's hear some more impressions from more people before we bash too much on Zowie.
> 
> Without having tested it for real I think that this shape will work much better for me compared to the FK1 so I'm still really eager to test it.


Shouldn't be too hard of a fix by opening it up, but if it isn't a reproducible problem in game, then I wouldn't mind it.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> That would be appreciated. If you could also include FK/Kana/WMO/Banana for scale.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Need those ZA12 pics against WMO ;P Hope you guys are enjoying the new mice.


^ This.

I canceled my ZA11 order after measuring my WMO. I'm not quite sure if ZA11 or ZA12 would be the closest WMO replacement in shape and size.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> ^ This.
> 
> I canceled my ZA11 order after measuring my WMO. I'm not quite sure if ZA11 or ZA12 would be the closest WMO replacement in shape and size.


The ZA11 is closest in width, but the ZA12 is closer in height, length, and weight from what I see.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I've just picked my ZA11 up and held it in my hand, still need to go back and finish up at work before I can test it for real. Click feels better I agree with that, not much lighter though, but a little bit at least. The height difference is very noticeable, it really is a huge difference compared to the FK1. The build quality on the scroll wheel on mine is definitely a disappointment though, if I shake it it rattles just a little bit, although I have to shake it pretty hard. It's the same problem they had before, I can press it to the side just a little bit as well. I'm one of those who actually really liked the scroll wheel on the FK1 and most of their other mice, I would probably like this too if it didn't rattle. I might've gotten unlucky though, let's hear some more impressions from more people before we bash too much on Zowie.
> 
> Without having tested it for real I think that this shape will work much better for me compared to the FK1 so I'm still really eager to test it.


Just got my ZA12. Also, experiencing a rattling mousewheel when swiping side to side. Not as bad as I have experienced with the Kinzu and Aurora, but wasn't expecting a loose mousewheel housing considering I hadn't had this issue with past Zowie mice.


----------



## detto87

Yes. It's hard to make a safe assumption which one fits better.

Is the slightly thinner shape of ZA12 gonna cramp?
Is the ZA11 a bit too long to make good use of the new side lips for easy lifting?

Waiting for some good comparisons with WMO first.









Too bad they still don't have proper mouse wheels in their mice. It's all the same again.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Just got my ZA12. Also, experiencing a rattling mousewheel when swiping side to side. Not as bad as I have experienced with the Kinzu and Aurora, but wasn't expecting a loose mousewheel housing considering I hadn't had this issue with past Zowie mice.


As a former G502 user, I doubt I would even notice the slight scroll wheel rattle after dealing with the one in that lol.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Too bad they still don't have proper mouse wheels in their mice. It's all the same again.


I doubt zowie will ever do more then one big change at a time. Far more money to be made with drip feeding. They seem to be masters of small refreshes.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I doubt zowie will ever do more then one big change at a time. Far more money to be made with drip feeding. They seem to be masters of small refreshes.


A reason I hesitate to get the ZA12 and wait for the new FM. Fortunately, their refreshes are good. The FK refresh was necessary due to the 3310 and same with the EC refresh. I'll wait and see what others say about the wheel. (I don't mind the wheel in zowie mice, i just want it to stay put if I am swiping).


----------



## popups

If the wheel is moving side to side that isn't a bad thing as along as it isn't something ridiculous. The wheel needs some play in it for pressing mouse 3, otherwise it will bend the shell and add more friction to the scroll. Vertical movement past the resting position, like the EC series, isn't acceptable.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If the wheel is moving side to side that isn't a bad thing as along as it isn't something ridiculous. The wheel needs some play in it for pressing mouse 3, otherwise it will bend the shell and add more friction to the scroll. Vertical movement past the resting position, like the EC series, isn't acceptable.


Right and that was fixed with the EC-A series. Like I said lol after using the G502, that scroll wheel would have to be having a party for me to notice the movement in game.


----------



## ramraze

Cmon guys, rattling wheel? Really... Can we hear something substantial please, like shape/coating? What does the coating feel like?Cursor responsiveness same as FK1? Lod?
Ive had 7 different deathadders and 5 of them had a rattling scrollwheel.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Cmon guys, rattling wheel? Really... Can we hear something substantial please, like shape/coating? What does the coating feel like?Cursor responsiveness same as FK1? Lod?
> Ive had 7 different deathadders and 5 of them had a rattling scrollwheel.


It is safe to assume it will perform the same as the FK1


----------



## Gylfen

Just opened my za12 and played around with it and i got no rattling from my scrollwheel. Feels solid, coating is very grippy, clicks like the fk.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Cmon guys, rattling wheel? Really... Can we hear something substantial please, like shape/coating? What does the coating feel like?Cursor responsiveness same as FK1? Lod?
> Ive had 7 different deathadders and 5 of them had a rattling scrollwheel.


Eventho I don't get annoyed much by stuff like feet that has corners, bad cable, mushy omrons, glossy coating or unnecessary side buttons on ambi mice...I honestly can't stand rattling. It's the prime indicator of either cheap build quality or just plain bad design. Mouse shouldn't rattle, everything should fit properly.


----------



## popups

Three things I miss from the Avior 7000 that the Zowie mice don't have: configurable top CPI button, angle snapping options and 250Hz.

I am near certain the ZA series will have better buttons than the Avior 7000, that's why I sent back the Avior. My FK has better buttons, but they are too stiff. The ZA shell and the blue Huano switches should make things a lot better than the original FK.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Eventho I don't get annoyed much by stuff like feet that has corners, bad cable, mushy omrons, glossy coating or unnecessary side buttons on ambi mice...I honestly can't stand rattling. It's the prime indicator of either cheap build quality or just plain bad design. Mouse shouldn't rattle, everything should fit properly.


If you know how the wheel is designed in the Zowie mice you would know that you could simply reassemble it to remove the movement. However, the wheel needs some sideways movement because if there isn't any it will bend the shell piece that holds it up and the wheel or mouse 3 will feel harder to use


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> That would be appreciated. If you could also include FK/Kana/WMO/Banana for scale.


I have the FK1 and WMO, but no Kana









I do have a Sensei I can throw in there, though.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> A reason I hesitate to get the ZA12 and wait for the new FM. Fortunately, their refreshes are good. The FK refresh was necessary due to the 3310 and same with the EC refresh. I'll wait and see what others say about the wheel. (I don't mind the wheel in zowie mice, i just want it to stay put if I am swiping).


Yeah I'm not hating on Zowie. I'm a bit of a fanboy. But they know what they are doing and know their market well.


----------



## Brightmist

I don't need to know how anything's designed. If you need to disassemble and re-assemble a piece of hardware, hardware designed to be continously on the move, to fix rattling, it's either bad design, bad build quality or bad quality control (considering it's not a chronic issue).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gylfen*
> 
> Just opened my za12 and played around with it and i got no rattling from my scrollwheel. Feels solid, coating is very grippy, clicks like the fk.


And considering this, if it's rattling, feel free to RMA.
Nothing should be rattling out of the box, ever.


----------



## auzcar

Haven't played anything yet but it's plugged in atleast, I'll get to the played in a minute hehe. To give some of my impressions on raised questions:

Coating - Feels very good, a bit more grainy compared to FK1 and at least for my hands it has better grip.
Clicks - A bit more muted than FK1 and also a tad lighter, what surprised me most was the sidebuttons, they are the best I've ever felt, very responsive and crisp.
Scroll - Just an added note, it rattles more in certain positions. If it rattles and I scroll the wheel 180 degrees is doesn't rattle nearly as much.
Shape - It really feels bigger than FK1 and it fills my palm a lot better, for a guy like me with big hands it feels so much more relaxed compared to the FK1 on ehich I have to force down my palm to make contact with the mouse (I'm a clawgripper btw).

Sensor/LOD - I can't say anything yet but I would be surprised if there are any differences compared to the FK1, they probably perform just the same. I will also leave the "scientific" testing and analysing to the people with more knowledge about sensors than me, since there are a lot of these people on here. Also, to be honest, when a sensor becomes better than the FK1's I really can't tell the difference, for me that sensor really perform flawlessly.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> Haven't played anything yet but it's plugged in atleast, I'll get to the played in a minute hehe. To give some of my impressions on raised questions:
> 
> Coating - Feels very good, a bit more grainy compared to FK1 and at least for my hands it has better grip.


Couldn't make me more excited. It's the rubberized matte feel like on the fk1 right? Not the disgusting old fk coating?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> Haven't played anything yet but it's plugged in atleast, I'll get to the played in a minute hehe. To give some of my impressions on raised questions:
> 
> Coating - Feels very good, a bit more grainy compared to FK1 and at least for my hands it has better grip.
> Clicks - A bit more muted than FK1 and also a tad lighter, what surprised me most was the sidebuttons, they are the best I've ever felt, very responsive and crisp.
> Scroll - Just an added note, it rattles more in certain positions. If it rattles and I scroll the wheel 180 degrees is doesn't rattle nearly as much.
> Shape - It really feels bigger than FK1 and it fills my palm a lot better, for a guy like me with big hands it feels so much more relaxed compared to the FK1 on ehich I have to force down my palm to make contact with the mouse (I'm a clawgripper btw).
> 
> Sensor/LOD - I can't say anything yet but I would be surprised if there are any differences compared to the FK1, they probably perform just the same. I will also leave the "scientific" testing and analysing to the people with more knowledge about sensors than me, since there are a lot of these people on here. Also, to be honest, when a sensor becomes better than the FK1's I really can't tell the difference, for me that sensor really perform flawlessly.


Thanks for those comments. I think you said somewhere in there about sending the mouse to LegoFarmer to keep, as well? Somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Steele84

ZA11 ordered


----------



## Ino.

Summed up my thoughts here: Zowie ZA11 pictures, thoughts and facts


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Summed up my thoughts here: Zowie ZA11 pictures, thoughts and facts


Oooo yaaa! Thankyou Thankyou!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Summed up my thoughts here: Zowie ZA11 pictures, thoughts and facts


Thanks, Ino. Is the rattle acceptable?


----------



## auzcar

I couldn't agree more on what Ino wrote in his review, very well written as always.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Thanks, Ino. Is the rattle acceptable?


Yes, I need to get my ear close to the mouse to hear if over normal background noise here. The stiff mouse wheel click is more bothering to me.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yes, I need to get my ear close to the mouse to hear if over normal background noise here. The stiff mouse wheel click is more bothering to me.


Idk if you'll be able to answer, but do you think a ZA12 is more agreeable to somebody who likes the WMO shape?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Summed up my thoughts here: Zowie ZA11 pictures, thoughts and facts


Just one question though, the coating - what is it closest to - FK1, original FK, EC1-A or .. something different? Does it feel like matte?

Edit: Nevermind, missed the line in your review.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Just one question though, the coating - what is it closest to - FK1, original FK, EC1-A or .. something different? Does it feel like matte?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, missed the line in your review.


Definitely the FK1, if anything it's even a bit more matte.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Idk if you'll be able to answer, but do you think a ZA12 is more agreeable to somebody who likes the WMO shape?


Sorry, never had a WMO


----------



## auzcar

I've been playing for 1-2 hours now and this is definitely my new main mouse. No cramps and very good shape for my grip.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I've been playing for 1-2 hours now and this is definitely my new main mouse. No cramps and very good shape for my grip.


AAawwyeeaaah. That's what I'm talking about. Will enjoy that feeling tomorrow afternoon


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I've been playing for 1-2 hours now and this is definitely my new main mouse. No cramps and very good shape for my grip.


ZA11 or other size?


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> ZA11 or other size?


ZA11


----------



## bond10

Does your finger fit the small lip perfectly or is it too big? I'm thinking about getting the ZA13 to replace the kinzu but I feel like my ring finger would rest on the lip instead of under it which would be uncomfortable..


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Does your finger fit the small lip perfectly or is it too big? I'm thinking about getting the ZA13 to replace the kinzu but I feel like my ring finger would rest on the lip instead of under it which would be uncomfortable..


My finger rests on the lip on the ZA11 even, so...


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> My finger rests on the lip on the ZA11 even, so...


So a ZA13 would have the lip way too low that your finger would rest on top of it possibly. Oh man, gotta wait for folks to get their ZA13s.


----------



## Jiisus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Does your finger fit the small lip perfectly or is it too big? I'm thinking about getting the ZA13 to replace the kinzu but I feel like my ring finger would rest on the lip instead of under it which would be uncomfortable..


Sorry if I am tard, but how the hell you know that it must be uncomfortable b4 trying it ?


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jiisus*
> 
> Sorry if I am tard, but how the hell you know that it must be uncomfortable b4 trying it ?


You are right sir.


----------



## LegoFarmer

The height difference of the wings in these three sizes doesn't seem too drastic. That's a good thing.


----------



## RDno1

I hate rattling mousewheels. I also noticed I grab my FK where the wing would be. Crap.


----------



## Arizonian

Okay received my mouse but at work. Here's some pictures. First Zowie mouse.







That is my dirty work Savu next to it. It is more narrow than the Savu due to the Savu ergonomics on the rear right hand side. The size of the ZA13 fits a little better in my hands because of it. I'm primarily claw grip.

The coating all around the mouse feels comfortable for my dry hands. I like it much better over the Kone Pure optical I'm using with a slimy coat better suited for wet hands. One thing I never did like about my Savu was the side grip coating that eventually wore off. I like the fact the ZA13 coating is the same all the way around.

I shook the mouse and I do not hear any rattling including the scroll wheel. It does not rattle back-and-forth when I shake the mouse and with my finger just a tad more play than my Savu. Its a tad more audible than my Savu scroll.

I've never used Huano in a mouse before and I don't think the stiffness is THAT much difference. So I don't see a problem getting used to this at all. If you told me that quality themselves was bad breaks down easily then I might have a problem with that. Perhaps Zowie adjusted their shell so it's easier than before.

I have to reserve judgment really until I start gaming but that won't be till much later tonight as I'm working overtime. So far my out-of-the-box experience has been positive.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Okay received my mouse but at work. Here's some pictures. First Zowie mouse.
> 
> That is my dirty work Savu next to it. It is more narrow than the Savu due to the Savu ergonomics on the rear right hand side. The size of the ZA13 fits a little better in my hands because of it. I'm primarily claw grip.
> 
> The coating all around the mouse feels comfortable for my dry hands. I like it much better over the Kone Pure optical I'm using with a slimy coat better suited for wet hands. One thing I never did like about my Savu was the side grip coating that eventually wore off. I like the fact the ZA13 coating is the same all the way around.
> 
> I shook the mouse and I do not hear any rattling including the scroll wheel. It does not rattle back-and-forth when I shake the mouse and with my finger just a tad more play than my Savu. Its a tad more audible than my Savu scroll.
> 
> I've never used Huano in a mouse before and I don't think the stiffness is THAT much difference. So I don't see a problem getting used to this at all. If you told me that quality themselves was bad breaks down easily then I might have a problem with that. Perhaps Zowie adjusted their shell so it's easier than before.
> 
> I have to reserve judgment really until I start gaming but that won't be till much later tonight as I'm working overtime. So far my out-of-the-box experience has been positive.


Looks really nice, and if it's the same size as the Savu i might think of getting it. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## RDno1

Yeah, thanks for the first impressions. Do you have a Kinzu to compare it to?


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Yeah, thanks for the first impressions. Do you have a Kinzu to compare it to?


No, unfortunately I sold'em all and only have three different mice on four systems. Naos 8200 for kid with large hands, 2 Savu's, and a Kone Pure Optical which may be getting replaced and sold too.




Edit to add: Got the Zowie G-CM mouse pad and I don't like it. Got to wet bottom for it to grip and lay down. On desk top at work it's ok but on real wood desktop keeps peeling. I'm going to lay weight on it for 24 hrs like I did my Taito to lay flat but I dont think it will help based on the material on bottom. May leave it at work to replace an aging pad. Not replacing my main mid size Taito. I'd rather go back to my over size QCK+ than use this G-CM. I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## falcon26

Just messed with my ZA13. For me its a bit too small. The ZA12 would be better. Also I'm not sure what coating they are using on the mouse top, but my finger prints are already imprinted into the mouse where my fingers rest. I don't like that at all. My deathadder chroma which I have been using for about a month still does not show any fingers prints on it...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Just messed with my ZA13. For me its a bit too small. The ZA12 would be better. Also I'm not sure what coating they are using on the mouse top, but my finger prints are already imprinted into the mouse where my fingers rest. I don't like that at all. My deathadder chroma which I have been using for about a month still does not show any fingers prints on it...


Hand size?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Also I'm not sure what coating they are using on the mouse top, but my finger prints are already imprinted into the mouse where my fingers rest. I don't like that at all. My deathadder chroma which I have been using for about a month still does not show any fingers prints on it...


That's normal for that type of coating. It's supposed to absorb the oils and moisture from your hand.


----------



## falcon26

Well it doesn't seem to adsorb them very well. Like I was saying after using it for 10 minutes I can clearly see my oils etc. On my Deathadder chroma which is a month old it doesn't really show it at all. I have a big hand...


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Well it doesn't seem to adsorb them very well. Like I was saying after using it for 10 minutes I can clearly see my oils etc. On my Deathadder chroma which is a month old it doesn't really show it at all. I have a big hand...


If I recall you said you had dry hands like I do. I have to wait till I get gaming tonight to see what it does for me.


----------



## thedogman

Why would you care about seeing finger prints on the mouse?


----------



## LegoFarmer

My sweat is always visible on my EC1-A. It just goes away shortly. I can see brief fingerprints, but nothing really noticeable.


----------



## auzcar

I can't give any feedback on the lip sadly since I claw with my ring and pinky, my fingers doesn't really reach that far on the right side.


----------



## Arizonian

Ok so after gaming about 30-40 mins in each game.....BF4, Crysis 3 (campaign), and Shadows of Mordor. Some of my thoughts....please keep in mind I'm a casual gamer. I kept default 1000 MHz polling rate and I like 800 DPI.

1, The slightly stiffer clicks of button 1 & 2 have more of a tactile feel when shooting and I kind of like it. Once clicked the shell responsively retracts back quickly. I understand why some might prefer this in FPS games, which is my main staple anyway. I'm no longer going to discriminate a mouse based on it's switches. Each persons experience amounts to personal opinion but doesn't make one type of switch better than the other if it's a non-issue for the end user.

2. As for the sensor, as was said before I already felt the 3090 was great so I welcome this even more. Some might have stated being sensitive to sensor positioning on the pcb, I didn't have any problem acclimating with the sensor in correlation to pointer with the ZA13 smaller body.

3. After almost a little over 2 hrs in my hand, I don't have any finger prints really. This will be subject to each persons hands perspiration. My dry hands did not leave but all of one small ever so light smudge on finger #1 click but not on finger #2. I like the feel of the coating.

4. The scroll wheel is no 'titan' scroll wheel I've been using in the Roccat kone pure optical but it do not feel or consider it cheap by any means IMO. A bit more audible than the Savu scrolling. I tried shaking the mouse again and did not hear or feel any rattling inside or from scroll wheel. The scroll wheel movement with finger is very slight side to side, slightly more than the Savu but nothing that keeps from using the scroll wheel and I do not feel any movement side to side when scroll wheel clicking.

5. Size of this mouse will not be for everyone. Like the Savu, it will not be ideal for large hands. Look to the other ZA's. I can claw grip this or palm it and the butt end feels right under palm. This is subjectional to each his own.

6. The side buttons default to the right hand side. However even though I'm right handed I found I'm clicking the button #4 accidentally on the right hand side. So I switched #5 & #4 to the left hand side buttons where I use my thumb and I do not have any more problem. Those buttons feel just fine clicking. Much easier than the side Shift+ buttons from the Savu. I like ZA's side buttons better.

7. Lastly, I feel at $65 for this mouse is priced about $10 too high.

A mouse that doesn't have software means cut support / labor costs which are not being passed along. No firmware updates allowed mean any fixes come only with an upgrade to a new mouse.

I took a blind leap of faith trying this mouse knowing about the latency issue I heard about. It ended up being fixed and implemented in the ZA prior to release. I'm not sure what a difference if any it would have made but I'm lucky in this case the kinks are worked out. Not sure about cost comparison between the different switches but over all IMO, though a sold constructed mouse, it should have been priced $50-$55 usd.

All in all, I've decided to replace my kone pure optical with the ZA13 on main rig for all the other things ZA13 does well over losing my titan scroll wheel. My fist Zowie mouse is a very positive experience and glad I gave the ZA13 a chance.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Ok so after gaming about 30-40 mins in each game.....BF4, Crysis 3 (campaign), and Shadows of Mordor. Some of my thoughts....please keep in mind I'm a casual gamer. I kept default 1000 MHz polling rate and I like 800 DPI.
> 
> 1, The slightly stiffer clicks of button 1 & 2 have more of a tactile feel when shooting and I kind of like it. Once clicked the shell responsively retracts back quickly. I understand why some might prefer this in FPS games, which is my main staple anyway. I'm no longer going to discriminate a mouse based on it's switches. Each persons experience amounts to personal opinion but doesn't make one type of switch better than the other if it's a non-issue for the end user.
> 
> 2. As for the sensor, as was said before I already felt the 3090 was great so I welcome this even more. Some might have stated being sensitive to sensor positioning on the pcb, I didn't have any problem acclimating with the sensor in correlation to pointer with the ZA13 smaller body.
> 
> 3. After almost a little over 2 hrs in my hand, I don't have any finger prints really. This will be subject to each persons hands perspiration. My dry hands did not leave but all of one small ever so light smudge on finger #1 click but not on finger #2. I like the feel of the coating.
> 
> 4. The scroll wheel is no 'titan' scroll wheel I've been using in the Roccat kone pure optical but it do not feel or consider it cheap by any means IMO. A bit more audible than the Savu scrolling. I tried shaking the mouse again and did not hear or feel any rattling inside or from scroll wheel. The scroll wheel movement with finger is very slight side to side, slightly more than the Savu but nothing that keeps from using the scroll wheel and I do not feel any movement side to side when scroll wheel clicking.
> 
> 5. Size of this mouse will not be for everyone. Like the Savu, it will not be ideal for large hands. Look to the other ZA's. I can claw grip this or palm it and the butt end feels right under palm. This is subjectional to each his own.
> 
> 6. The side buttons default to the right hand side. However even though I'm right handed I found I'm clicking the button #4 accidentally on the right hand side. So I switched #5 & #4 to the left hand side buttons where I use my thumb and I do not have any more problem. Those buttons feel just fine clicking. Much easier than the side Shift+ buttons from the Savu. I like ZA's side buttons better.
> 
> 7. Lastly, I feel at $65 for this mouse is priced about $10 too high.
> 
> A mouse that doesn't have software means cut support / labor costs which are not being passed along. No firmware updates allowed mean any fixes come only with an upgrade to a new mouse.
> 
> I took a blind leap of faith trying this mouse knowing about the latency issue I heard about. It ended up being fixed and implemented in the ZA prior to release. I'm not sure what a difference if any it would have made but I'm lucky in this case the kinks are worked out. Not sure about cost comparison between the different switches but over all IMO, though a sold constructed mouse, it should have been priced $50-$55 usd.
> 
> All in all, I've decided to replace my kone pure optical with the ZA13 on main rig for all the other things ZA13 does well over losing my titan scroll wheel. My fist Zowie mouse is a very positive experience and glad I gave the ZA13 a chance.


Thank you for the review. IIRC, there was nobody yet who reported a rattling scrollwheel on the ZA13. Perhaps that particular shell isn't even plagued by the issue. Your review of the buttons is also intriguing. However, it's weird that the side buttons default to the right. Doesn't everybody use their thumb for those? The only thing that I'm wondering is if it's worth to get the G303 over it for the sensor. I hope Zowie refreshes the ZA series with the 3366 when the exclusivity ends.


----------



## Sencha

The g303 is not worth buying for sensor. You gotta love the shape. 3310 is more then good enough. If you can try both that would be the best way to go


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> The g303 is not worth buying for sensor. You gotta love the shape. 3310 is more then good enough. If you can try both that would be the best way to go


I don't know. Judging from the acceleration tests I've seen and from my experience with the KPM and the G502, I'd say the 3366 is clearly superior. This is overclock.net, there is no "good enough"







Trying both is a good idea though.


----------



## ramraze

Waiting for other manufacturers such as Zowie to adopt 3366 you can be waiting a long time.


----------



## Aventadoor

Just got my ZA11.
First impressions:
Clicks are MUCH better then FK1.
Shape is good, but could be wider in the top area of the mouse. ALso a little taller in the front.
Scroll wheel does rattle a little at certain positions, and its not a very good scroll if u ask me. EC2-A is better


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Waiting for other manufacturers such as Zowie to adopt 3366 you can be waiting a long time.


Even if others get it, I doubt it will perform like logitech's implementation.


----------



## Steele84

The width of the ZA11 has me worried after you put the tape measure to it. I have very large hands, and my pinky finger on my mouse hand is messed up (football injury) causing it to lock up, cramp and even dislocate after long periods of gaming. I was really wanting to try and convert my grip to a palm to add more comfort to my gaming. I have a G9 on my main rig, and it just will not work for a palm grip, but I can get by with my G400s (work mouse) but it still feels a bit thin. Hopefully the raised butt of the ZA11 will help with the finger placement or I'm afraid that this mouse will not work for me. Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## falcon26

Its not really a finger print. Its oil I guess from my hand that is now permanently imbedded into the mouse. I can see this happening after several months of use, but not after 10 minutes. I will be returning my ZA13. I'll stick with my deathadder chroma....


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Thank you for the review. IIRC, there was nobody yet who reported a rattling scrollwheel on the ZA13. Perhaps that particular shell isn't even plagued by the issue. Your review of the buttons is also intriguing. However, it's weird that the side buttons default to the right. Doesn't everybody use their thumb for those? The only thing that I'm wondering is if it's worth to get the G303 over it for the sensor. I hope Zowie refreshes the ZA series with the 3366 when the exclusivity ends.


My ZA11 and ZA12 got pretty big amount of scroll rattle, my ZA13 does not rattle at all however. My 13 and 11 got a little bit of uneven bottom part and my 12 is perfectly flat. But they are not as bent as my EC2-A which is unusable due to the wobble. They lip in the front sucks but I can live with it, maybe I will try to remove it later. A glossy version of these mice would be amazing.


----------



## ro77en

which shape did you like best? and how big is your hand?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> My ZA11 and ZA12 got pretty big amount of scroll rattle, my ZA13 does not rattle at all however. My 13 and 11 got a little bit of uneven bottom part and my 12 is perfectly flat. But they are not as bent as my EC2-A which is unusable due to the wobble. They lip in the front sucks but I can live with it, maybe I will try to remove it later. A glossy version of these mice would be amazing.


Ugh even these have the uneven bottom problem? Disappointing.
We need some comparisons up in here.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ro77en*
> 
> which shape did you like best? and how big is your hand?


I think my hand is about 20 cm. I did use the Rival for a while earlier and before that I used the FK alot. Out of these I like ZA13 the most. The increase in height was really good. M1 and M2 buttons are much better as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Ugh even these have the uneven bottom problem? Disappointing.
> We need some comparisons up in here.


Yup, two out of three I got had this problem.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I think my hand is about 20 cm. I did use the Rival for a while earlier and before that I used the FK alot. Out of these I like ZA13 the most. The increase in height was really good. M1 and M2 buttons are much better as well.
> Yup, two out of three I got had this problem.


Do you think the ZA12 is a good solution for WMO users?


----------



## Jiisus

Picked up my ZA12 !

*Shape:* Pretty much what i expected. When I used DA, it didn't support back of my palm and it kept moving around when gripped so playing with it never felt ''natural''. Idk is it fat ass or just ambi design,but ZA12 definitely fits way better for me. As you know, when you grab that ass it needs to fill your whole hand







I was afraid that 12 would be too small, but there seems to be reason why they made sizes the way they are. Higher back makes it feel like bigger mouse than I imagined after seeing measurements. Little lip on side really helps lifting the mouse. First time grabbing my ring finger went next to it, but I kinda forced it under the lip like it is supposed to be and after ~1h of usage finger goes there naturally







. Right side buttons don't bother me at all and I first forgot that they even were there, because no part of my hand even touches them.

*Build quality:* It feels very good, but after reading comments here it feel like some of you are waiting for Handmade luxury mouse straight from Germany or some shiz like that. For me good shape and perfect sensors are most important, everything else after that is just extra. JKJK, it feels way more higher quality than DA. No wheel rattling or moving things whatsoever. Build quality kinda reminds me of my old g400. Mouse wheel and side buttons are also good. Clicks are stiffer than DA or g400, but i wouldn't describe them hard to press. But oh well I have never cared about mouse clicks anyway.
*
Performance:* Haven't had time to play CS:GO yet, so nothing special here. Quickly looked polling rate with mouserate.exe and it seems to be pretty stable on both 1000hz and 500hz, no flaws there either. Did the Click latency test which I promised and it is 0.5-1ms slower than DA. So it seems that huge button lags with zowie mice are now finally history. Test was not accurate tho, mainly because DA wavy-design on mouse buttons made it hard to accurately bash it together with ZAs nearly straight mouse1.

(MOUSE A= Zowie ZA12 MOUSE B= Deathadder Chroma.)

And some bad quality comparison pictures mainly for LegoFarmer
WMO VS ZA12




WMO VS ZA12 VS DA Chroma



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Its not really a finger print. Its oil I guess from my hand that is now permanently imbedded into the mouse. I can see this happening after several months of use, but not after 10 minutes. I will be returning my ZA13. I'll stick with my deathadder chroma....


Can I ask one thing. If the ''prints'' are only reason for you to return the mouse, why did you even buy it in first place. I mean it seems weird that some one that really cares about mouse looks, would even buy ZA


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> It would be cool if zowie created a trial package with plastic molds of all their mice. I don't want to buy all three to figure out which size I want and send the other two back, such a hassle for both parties.


That would be pretty nice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I think my hand is about 20 cm. I did use the Rival for a while earlier and before that I used the FK alot. Out of these I like ZA13 the most. The increase in height was really good. M1 and M2 buttons are much better as well.
> Yup, two out of three I got had this problem.


Yeah my hands are similarly sized and I picked up a ZA11 since I originally liked the FK1 size, but now since then I've been using a g303 and tried out a g100s and actually liked the smaller sizes if not the shapes, so I'm thinking of trying the ZA13 myself. The only concern I have is that it's so much thinner. Anyone know what Rexflo or whatever company it was through amazon has for a return/exchange system?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jiisus*
> 
> Picked up my ZA12 !
> 
> *Shape:* Pretty much what i expected. When I used DA, it didn't support back of my palm and it kept moving around when gripped so playing with it never felt ''natural''. Idk is it fat ass or just ambi design,but ZA12 definitely fits way better for me. As you know, when you grab that ass it needs to fill your whole hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was afraid that 12 would be too small, but there seems to be reason why they made sizes the way they are. Higher back makes it feel like bigger mouse than I imagined after seeing measurements. Little lip on side really helps lifting the mouse. First time grabbing my ring finger went next to it, but I kinda forced it under the lip like it is supposed to be and after ~1h of usage finger goes there naturally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Right side buttons don't bother me at all and I first forgot that they even were there, because no part of my hand even touches them.
> 
> *Build quality:* It feels very good, but after reading comments here it feel like some of you are waiting for Handmade luxury mouse straight from Germany or some shiz like that. For me good shape and perfect sensors are most important, everything else after that is just extra. JKJK, it feels way more higher quality than DA. No wheel rattling or moving things whatsoever. Build quality kinda reminds me of my old g400. Mouse wheel and side buttons are also good. Clicks are stiffer than DA or g400, but i wouldn't describe them hard to press. But oh well I have never cared about mouse clicks anyway.
> *
> Performance:* Haven't had time to play CS:GO yet, so nothing special here. Quickly looked polling rate with mouserate.exe and it seems to be pretty stable on both 1000hz and 500hz, no flaws there either. Did the Click latency test which I promised and it is 0.5-1ms slower than DA. So it seems that huge button lags with zowie mice are now finally history. Test was not accurate tho, mainly because DA wavy-design on mouse buttons made it hard to accurately bash it together with ZAs nearly straight mouse1.
> 
> (MOUSE A= Zowie ZA12 MOUSE B= Deathadder Chroma.)
> 
> And some bad quality comparison pictures mainly for LegoFarmer
> WMO VS ZA12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WMO VS ZA12 VS DA Chroma
> 
> 
> Can I ask one thing. If the ''prints'' are only reason for you to return the mouse, why did you even buy it in first place. I mean it seems weird that some one that really cares about mouse looks, would even buy ZA





Thanks for those pics, they look quite similar in shape. Gonna have to snipe it soon


----------



## Melan

How stiff are the clicks on this thing? Are they as stiff as FK or somewhat closer to G303 or chroma? If I can't spam M1/M2 very fast (as in G303), I'll just cross this mouse out of my list.

Nvm. Found my answer. *crosses ZA out of the list*


----------



## ramraze

I posted my thoughts in Ino's thread.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1554361/zowie-za11-pictures-thoughts-and-facts-by-ino/30#post_23882626
and
http://www.overclock.net/t/1554361/zowie-za11-pictures-thoughts-and-facts-by-ino/30#post_23882719

But basically this is what the FK could have been









The only thing I would change is the placement of the hump, I would move it ever so slightly further. Second thing is, my scrollwheel rattles, but it doesn't bother me that much.

I'm pretty happy with the coating. I confirm wat Jiisus says about click latency. It feels on par with DA / Rival.









Now need to get used to it

The way the front flares out at the front with the 'wings', makes it feel like a bigger Taipan, however it feels less pronounced.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I was told they are lighter than the FK series. Anyway, how is the weight balance on these guys?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I was told they are lighter than the FK series. Anyway, how is the weight balance on these guys?


Rear heavy. Weight distribution is not as good on the 11, I suppose, as on the 12 and 13. But it doesn't feel heavy by any means. Just feels like more bulk is in the back.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Rear heavy. Weight distribution is not as good on the 11, I suppose, as on the 12 and 13. But it doesn't feel heavy by any means. Just feels like more bulk is in the back.


Still usable in the three grips?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Still usable in the three grips?


Sure. If palm works on an ambi mouse, then all the other grips should too. I mean for fingertip it should be good due to the indentations, and it being easy to lift. Claw should work as well. Palm works alright. I mean it's not an ergonomic mouse but you can certainly use all grips in my opinion.
The thing I find is that people grip their mice very differently and most people have a hybrid grip to some extent, no matter what they claim.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Sure. If palm works on an ambi mouse, then all the other grips should too. I mean for fingertip it should be good due to the indentations, and it being easy to lift. Claw should work as well. Palm works alright. I mean it's not an ergonomic mouse but you can certainly use all grips in my opinion.
> The thing I find is that people grip their mice very differently and most people have a hybrid grip to some extent, no matter what they claim.


Width is acceptable?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Waiting for other manufacturers such as Zowie to adopt 3366 you can be waiting a long time.


SteelSeries is more likely to release a Sensei with a 3366.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> SteelSeries is more likely to release a Sensei with a 3366.


Can't see it happening


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Can't see it happening


Actually I can.

Because it haz teh dpi's over teh 9000. In essence the 3366 is awesome because when done right it can cater to both our niche market and the typical bestbuy guy that wants over 9000 dpi because it sounds awesome.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Width is acceptable?


To me it fels acceptable. Depends how clawy your thumb and ringfinger are. Or how you grip it.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> SteelSeries is more likely to release a Sensei with a 3366.


That might happen indeed. And that would be the gift of the century.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> That might happen indeed. And that would be the gift of the century.


If Logitech's exclusivity for the 3366 does indeed end in August, Zowie will be done for if they don't use it, as well (Which would raise their prices and there wouldn't be software to use the advantages of the 3366), so a SS sensei would sell like mad. I would love for the 3366 to be used in a shape like that, but I hope the weight is no more than 90g.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> If Logitech's exclusivity for the 3366 does indeed end in August, Zowie will be done for if they don't use it, as well (Which would raise their prices and there wouldn't be software to use the advantages of the 3366), so a SS sensei would sell like mad. I would love for the 3366 to be used in a shape like that, but I hope the weight is no more than 90g.


Well not necessarily. There are a few ways one can still sell. When G502 and g303 were released, people are still buying 3310 and 3090 mice. Even lower tier sensors, if they are offered at the right price.
But truly it would be a great deal.

Sensei Raw weighed 92-93 g I believe, so it's possible.


----------



## popups

The 3366 has everything SteelSeries would want. I wouldn't be surprised they charged $70-80 for it at release. Even at such a price Zowie would be in trouble because the sensor is better and you will be able to configure the mouse. The easiest counter for Zowie to do would be to cut their prices a lot. If SteelSeries priced it at $60 there wouldn't be much of a reason to buy any symmetrical Zowie mouse.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The 3366 has everything SteelSeries would want. I wouldn't be surprised they charged $70-80 for it at release. Even at such a price Zowie would be in trouble because the sensor is better and you will be able to configure the mouse. The easiest counter for Zowie to do would be to cut their prices a lot. If SteelSeries priced it at $60 there wouldn't be much of a reason to buy any symmetrical Zowie mouse.


If steelseries priced that at $60, there would be no reason to buy any other ambidextrous mouse in general lol. I know they'd put it for at least $70, probably $80.
I think implementation speaks louder than the sensor, though. If that were not true, then there wouldn't be mice that perform better than the G303 and G502 in terms of precision.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> If steelseries priced that at $60, there would be no reason to buy any other ambidextrous mouse in general lol. I know they'd put it for at least $70, probably $80.
> I think implementation speaks louder than the sensor, though. If that were not true, then there wouldn't be mice that perform better than the G303 and G502 in terms of precision.


True, but reps at steelseries are making such stupid decision it hurts me. So we'll see, we'll see. This may or may not come


----------



## Abacus1234

Sidebuttons on the Sensei feel like cheap chinese OEM junk. Just epically bad in my opinion. Until the Sensei actually feels premium, I don't care what sensor they put in it.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> When G502 and g303 were released, people are still buying 3310 and 3090 mice.


Well cuz... you know, them Logitech shapes.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Well cuz... you know, them Logitech shapes.


Yes, but price is rather important as well.


----------



## a_ak57

How long do you guys think it'll be before amazon themselves actually stock these mice? Like how long did it take for the EC1/2-A and FK1/2?


----------



## thedogman

Does anyone know what the restocking fee for an amazon prime member is? I want to order the g303 and the za12 and send back whichever I like less.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Does anyone know what the restocking fee for an amazon prime member is? I want to order the g303 and the za12 and send back whichever I like less.


Never had to pay any restocking fees. Just say they make your hand hurt and you can't use them.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Does anyone know what the restocking fee for an amazon prime member is? I want to order the g303 and the za12 and send back whichever I like less.


Amazon never charges a restocking fee like other greedy retailers even for non-prime members. If the item is defective they will pay the return shipping. If the item isn't defective and you want to return it anyways then you will have to pay the return shipping.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Amazon never charges a restocking fee like other greedy retailers even for non-prime members. If the item is defective they will pay the return shipping. If the item isn't defective and you want to return it anyways then you will have to pay the return shipping.


This is only for items shipped and sold by amazon though. The ZA mice at the moment are sold by Rexflo so you have to deal with them directly for returns. The logitech mouse is sold by amazon so there'd be no issues.


----------



## discoprince

yep, gonna pass on this one.

gonna get an EC2-A though.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I've returned plenty & the seller was not Amazon. Never had a restocking fee.


----------



## Ricey20

does the ZA have lift off distance adjustment like the FK series?


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> does the ZA have lift off distance adjustment like the FK series?


Yes, the current zowie mice all have the same LOD which is adjustable.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I assume these three mice use the same size mouse skates? It looks like FK skates will fit just fine.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I assume these three mice use the same size mouse skates? It looks like FK skates will fit just fine.


My ZA13 box had extra skates.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> My ZA13 box had extra skates.


Yeah, but even when those wear off, it'd just be nice to know that FK skates can be used to replace which are easy to find on ebay. I'm almost positive they are the same.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yeah, but even when those wear off, it'd just be nice to know that FK skates can be used to replace which are easy to find on ebay. I'm almost positive they are the same.


http://www.hyperglide.net - source - May 7, 2015
Quote:


> Hyperglide model Z-1 suits the new Zowie ZA 11, ZA 12 & ZA 13 mice too (07 May 2015)
> 
> Like yourselves, we're very excited by the launch of the Zowie ZA series of mice. You'll be happy to know that the ZA mice feet are exactly the same as the FK series mice feet. We're having great response to our Z-1 model which suits all FK series mice and trust all you new ZA series owners will love them too. Because the ZA mice were only made available for order this week, the text on our Z-1 packaging does not as yet reflect this compatibility, but don't worry!


----------



## TriviumKM

Is Zowie using thicker mouse feet now or do they still use the same thin 0.4 ones?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Is Zowie using thicker mouse feet now or do they still use the same thin 0.4 ones?


I think they are.45mm, but probably haven't changed them.


----------



## detto87

They didn't change the wheel nor the feet.
I could overlook those things the 2nd and even 3rd time I bought a Zowie mouse.
But after so many updates and refreshes of their mice lineup it kinda bothers me really bad that they just don't care in fixing those things.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> They didn't change the wheel nor the feet.
> I could overlook those things the 2nd and even 3rd time I bought a Zowie mouse.
> But after so many updates and refreshes of their mice lineup it kinda bothers me really bad that they just don't care in fixing those things.


Again, another thing that makes me want to keep using my WMO for more months to see how FinalMouse ends up.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Again, another thing that makes me want to keep using my WMO for more months to see how FinalMouse ends up.


Same here, though WMO + G303 it is.

I'm kinda spoiled from those 2 mice.
Only a mouse that has a sensor like MLT04 or 3366 will be good enough. And its shape has to be at least as good as WMO shape. Clicks should be in the same league as the G303's. Oh man, I guess I'm settled on those 2 for a looong time.









Those 2 sensors are also the only optical sensors that track flawlessly on the Artisan Raiden pad that I still love to death.

I'm concerned about the ZA's size lineup.
Look at this ZA12: http://cdn.overclock.net/d/d0/d084f73e_wmozdT.png
ZA12 has good length and height but too thin for palm or palm-claw. ZA11 is said to be too long though width is good. ZA13 is fingertip only imo.
So in the end there are 3 sizes and none of them can compete with the WMO.
Don't take this last rant too serious though as I haven't had any ZA mouse in my hands. But my guess is that I'm not too far away from the truth.


----------



## auzcar

I've had a couple of more hours in-game and so far the ZA11 feels really good for me, definitely better than the FK1 and I can now say for sure that the cramps are gone. There's still a few things I would change if I wanted the perfect mouse for my own preferences. I would probably:

- Add 3-5mm in width all over
- Make it wider at the top/hump and not so slanted to the sides (more like the top on the Xai/Sensei)
- Move the hump a bit more to the front

- If these criteria would be met I could even see me wanting to make it 1-2mm lower as well due to the added width.

Just my 2 cents.

PS: I'm still super happy with the ZA11 though, my aim is a bit off but that is to be expected, I've always had a longer adjustment period when it comes to larger mice for some reason, but it's so much more comfy.


----------



## Aventadoor

^
I have to agree, basicly make it into a sensei shape, with zowie's touch!









Id say they should make it taller in the front aswell.
I grip the mouse with my little & ring finger on the side and its not much space for them.

Been playing 5 MM's with it for fun, and some DM.
Works good so far. Pretty good for spamming rekt9 etc


----------



## jukkhop

You a
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I've had a couple of more hours in-game and so far the ZA11 feels really good for me, definitely better than the FK1 and I can now say for sure that the cramps are gone. There's still a few things I would change if I wanted the perfect mouse for my own preferences. I would probably:
> 
> - Add 3-5mm in width all over
> - Make it wider at the top/hump and not so slanted to the sides (more like the top on the Xai/Sensei)
> - Move the hump a bit more to the front
> 
> - If these criteria would be met I could even see me wanting to make it 1-2mm lower as well due to the added width.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> PS: I'm still super happy with the ZA11 though, my aim is a bit off but that is to be expected, I've always had a longer adjustment period when it comes to larger mice for some reason, but it's so much more comfy.


What you describe is pretty much IO 1.1 shape.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Same here, though WMO + G303 it is.
> 
> I'm kinda spoiled from those 2 mice.
> Only a mouse that has a sensor like MLT04 or 3366 will be good enough. And its shape has to be at least as good as WMO shape. Clicks should be in the same league as the G303's. Oh man, I guess I'm settled on those 2 for a looong time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those 2 sensors are also the only optical sensors that track flawlessly on the Artisan Raiden pad that I still love to death.
> 
> I'm concerned about the ZA's size lineup.
> Look at this ZA12: http://cdn.overclock.net/d/d0/d084f73e_wmozdT.png
> ZA12 has good length and height but too thin for palm or palm-claw. ZA11 is said to be too long though width is good. ZA13 is fingertip only imo.
> So in the end there are 3 sizes and none of them can compete with the WMO.
> Don't take this last rant too serious though as I haven't had any ZA mouse in my hands. But my guess is that I'm not too far away from the truth.


I got a Raiden too, and my Maurus, G9x and mu Zowie fk works perfectly on it


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> ^
> I have to agree, basicly make it into a sensei shape, with zowie's touch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Id say they should make it taller in the front aswell.
> 
> Been playing 5 MM's with it for fun, and some DM.
> Works good so far. Pretty good for spamming rekt9 etc


Yeah, if the height would be the same I definitely agree about making the front higher. I've only played CSDM, aim maps and some BF3 yet, will get to the MM this weekend.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jukkhop*
> 
> You a
> What you describe is pretty much IO 1.1 shape.


Yeah, basically a Sensei. The IO 1.1 is really nice as well but I've grown too used to two thumb bottons and the sides are a bit too slanted for my taste.


----------



## a_ak57

I've noticed a couple people wish the hump was further forward and that the front was taller. That actually makes me more interested in these mice since I actually prefer a low front and butt positioned as far back as possible. Still need to decide on a size though...will probably just wait for amazon to stock them and take advantage of their lax return policy.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I actually prefer a low front and butt positioned as far back as possible.


Check you out with the chat up lines


----------



## bond10

choosing a size is tough. I want a mouse with fk1 size but a rounded butt. everyone with a ZA mouse, please compare the size feeling to other ambidextrous mice.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> choosing a size is tough. I want a mouse with fk1 size but a rounded butt. everyone with a ZA mouse, please compare the size feeling to other ambidextrous mice.


Someone on reddit backed up my theory that each ZA will feel like the FK one size up in length (i.e. ZA12 feels as big as FK1) but that's just one person's opinion. But honestly I still think that'd be the case since larger butts make mice feel bigger, not only because of how it changes your hand position (puts it slightly further back in all likelihood) but also because the top's arc length will be longer. But of course, the real worry is still width, and that's why I kinda just want to grab all of them to try out.


----------



## Mannheimer

I also consider about buying one of the ZA mice, but I shilly-shally which size I should choose. I had a Xai before and currently own a Kana V2 which is just a tiny little bit to small but had no Mouse5 button and a very high LOD which annoys me a lot. Other than that I really like the Kana.

Is there anyone owning a Kana/ Kana V2/ Sensei or Xai and could compare it to the ZA Series. A side by side picture of the side- and widthprofil would be really great.

I am happy to live in germany were we have a 14 days return option for online orders. So I could buy all ZA sizes, test them and keep the one I like but spending about 190€ at once keeps me away from this step.


----------



## ramraze

Day 2 from my impressions of the ZA11. It is a good mouse, but I have some gripes with it.

*Things that I like:*
- Height
- Cable
- Improved clicks
- Coating
- 3310 performance
- Decent Lod, like FK1
- \ / sides -> easy to lift

*Things that I don't like:*
Minor gripes -
- The hill is too far back, meaning the curve is VERY steep. Basically it forces your wrist at a much bigger angle. In my case close to a 45 angle. Sort of like this: 
Now, this would be okay if you have a relaxed grip, since you don't have to force the muscles. But due to the width one has to be more forceful with the grip to achieve more stability, more on it below.
- It feels quite heavy to move around with the bulk in the back. Somehow it feels way heavier than 90g, i cannot explain why. For example, moving the Rival around feels even easier and lighter. That's really ridiculous, but it is true. 106g vs 90g. I can't believe it is 90g







The FK1 felt way easier to move around. This could be due to my grip, though.
- Scrollwheel rattle on my unit, but this doesn't bother me.

Major gripes -
- Width. This thing is just not thick enough. Even though on paper it looks good, somehow the way it has been made makes it feel a lot less thin than Kana or Sensei.
On day 2 after 6-10 hours of gameplay (altogether), my flickshots are quite good, but tracking targets suffers. I can still aim at an acceptable level but my aim is just twitching all over sometimes. Didn't have this issue with Rival, Savu or even CM Storm Alcor.(was as bad with fk1, even worse with fk2) At least not to this extent. I don't know why they keep doing such thin mice, why has nobody told them









If you fingertip or fullclaw it, you may be fine. Also depends what games you play. I'm sure the CSGO players wouldn't notice the impact so much because it is much more about flickshots in csgo than trackaiming.
For reference, I have like 19-19.5 cm long hands and a palm/claw hybrid. My thumb and ring finger are slightly more stretched than a classic claw, while the back of my palm supported on the back of the hill.

Anyway, this mouse has some serious potential, but it depends on your grip style whether it is too thin for you or not. I feel that for palm users it will be too thin ergonomically and in terms of aiming performance.
Those are my impressions, anyway. Gonna try to play with it at least 3-4 more days and then try to decide what to do.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I think they are.45mm, but probably haven't changed them.


Thanks. Shame they couldn't increase the feet a bit, I get that as a company they want to spend as little as possible so as to maximize profits, but I doubt buying bulk of some thicker feet could be that much more.

Feet aside, I still would've bought a ZA 12 or 13 if they were wider, I don't get why every company makes their shorter mice so thin.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Thanks. Shame they couldn't increase the feet a bit, I get that as a company they want to spend as little as possible so as to maximize profits, but I doubt buying bulk of some thicker feet could be that much more.
> 
> Feet aside, I still would've bought a ZA 12 or 13 if they were wider, I don't get why every company makes their shorter mice so thin.


I use the WMO, so I hope the ZA12 is okay.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yeah, but even when those wear off, it'd just be nice to know that FK skates can be used to replace which are easy to find on ebay. I'm almost positive they are the same.


I would assume so.

AM/FK/FK1/FK2 all used the same size of skates too. Cost effective most likely, but also handy considering their customer base, considering people have been swapping shells as well.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I would assume so.
> 
> AM/FK/FK1/FK2 all used the same size of skates too. Cost effective most likely, but also handy considering their customer base, considering people have been swapping shells as well.


I was correct, yes. Hyperglides for the FK series will work perfectly with the ZA series, confirmed by Hyperglide.


----------



## RDno1

I think for me it's very much "the smaller, the better," so I won't have any trouble deciding. The ZA13 actually looks quite similar to my "modded" FK.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> ^
> I have to agree, basicly make it into a sensei shape, with zowie's touch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Id say they should make it taller in the front aswell.
> I grip the mouse with my little & ring finger on the side and its not much space for them.
> 
> Been playing 5 MM's with it for fun, and some DM.
> Works good so far. Pretty good for spamming rekt9 etc


A taller front would be awesome.



I like the arch to be more towards the rear like a Diamondback or G302/3.


----------



## janenlinus

I got the ZA11 yesterday and played a while without a problem, until I noticed a huge flaw. When i do fast swipes, the mouse disconnects for about 0.5 seconds. There you go







Hopefully just got a faulty one...unusable for lower sensitivity players if the problem persists.


----------



## Melan

Didn't ec-a have the same issue?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janenlinus*
> 
> I got the ZA11 yesterday and played a while without a problem, until I noticed a huge flaw. When i do fast swipes, the mouse disconnects for about 0.5 seconds. There you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully just got a faulty one...unusable for lower sensitivity players if the problem persists.


Is it your first 3310 mouse?


----------



## janenlinus

No, I own the rival and FK1 aswell. Been playing with the rival the latest year, Why?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janenlinus*
> 
> No, I own the rival and FK1 aswell. Been playing with the rival the latest year, Why?


Strange that you have that problem then.


----------



## janenlinus

Why should that matter?







I played those on 500hz though, been using 1000hz on the ZA. Does that make any difference perhaps?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janenlinus*
> 
> Why should that matter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I played those on 500hz though, been using 1000hz on the ZA. Does that make any difference perhaps?


It could. Make sure the lift off distance is set to the standard setting and try it at 500hz.


----------



## janenlinus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> It could. Make sure the lift off distance is set to the standard setting and try it at 500hz.


I tried to use "original" LOD mode and went down to 500hz. Problem still persists, and if I swipe many time, so it disconnects a number of time, the DPI button locks itself, making it impossible to change dpi until I disconnect and connect the mouse again. Shape is great though, aaaalways something gamebreaking with mice that I like


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janenlinus*
> 
> I tried to use "original" LOD mode and went down to 500hz. Problem still persists, and if I swipe many time, so it disconnects a number of time, the DPI button locks itself, making it impossible to change dpi until I disconnect and connect the mouse again. Shape is great though, aaaalways something gamebreaking with mice that I like


rma :/


----------



## Jiisus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janenlinus*
> 
> I got the ZA11 yesterday and played a while without a problem, until I noticed a huge flaw. When i do fast swipes, the mouse disconnects for about 0.5 seconds. There you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully just got a faulty one...unusable for lower sensitivity players if the problem persists.


Hmm I had same problem with my old g400 and it was loose wire which caused it. First only fast swipes made it disconnect and it slowly got worse. That mouse was nearly 2 years old tho...

You might want to check power saving plan, if usb selective suspend option is on.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A taller front would be awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the arch to be more towards the rear like a Diamondback or G302/3.


I personally prefer mice to be as low as possible in the front. That makes me feel more precise, almost like I'm holding a pen.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I personally prefer mice to be as low as possible in the front. That makes me feel more precise, almost like I'm holding a pen.


I like a higher front because it decreases my reaction times and makes it easier to click fast. It's a more natural position. At a certain height it takes up the "slack" of your finger -- all you have to do is slightly move your finger to actuate the switch. When I took away the slack from my Zowie FK I was ~20ms faster. With the G302/3 shape I was getting ~140ms times without trying very hard and I was clicking 10-11 times per 10 seconds. Whereas with the Zowie AM it's hard to get ~140ms averages and to click 9 times within 10 seconds.

*Zowie AM-FG - Default Shell*


*Logitech G303*


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *janenlinus*
> 
> I tried to use "original" LOD mode and went down to 500hz. Problem still persists, and if I swipe many time, so it disconnects a number of time, the DPI button locks itself, making it impossible to change dpi until I disconnect and connect the mouse again. Shape is great though, aaaalways something gamebreaking with mice that I like


Get it replaced. That's not right


----------



## MaximilianKohler

There is no point to be wishing/encouraging more manufacturers to use the 3366...

So what if it's been claimed to have the highest *potential* because of "great architecture". The facts are that Logitech hasn't seemed to have been able to get better performance out of it when compared to "inferior architectures". And other manufacturers haven't been able to get anywhere close to ideal performance out of the architectures they're currently using, so what makes you think they'll be able to all of a sudden get the most out of a 3366 implementation that they would have no experience with and is possibly more complicated?

To whoever has this mouse:

Please post screenshots of xvelocity, using microe's mousetester program that is stickied. Use Ino's screenshots as a guide of how they should look.

Important variables are:

* Hz of the mouse (preferably post both 500 and 1000)
* OS
* Having previously manually installed KB2908279 on win 8.1 (you would know if you did)
* Windows power plan, c-states on/off in BIOS

So far, Ino's screenshots show his ZA performs differently than his FK1.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There is no point to be wishing/encouraging more manufacturers to use the 3366...
> 
> So what if it's been claimed to have the highest *potential* because of "great architecture". The facts are that Logitech hasn't seemed to have been able to get better performance out of it when compared to "inferior architectures". And other manufacturers haven't been able to get anywhere close to ideal performance out of the architectures they're currently using, so what makes you think they'll be able to all of a sudden get the most out of a 3366 implementation that they would have no experience with and is possibly more complicated?


The 3366 from Logitech tracks movement a lot better than the 3310 from Mionix. I think it's a little inaccurate diagonally, that might be because of the IR LED. The 3310 feels like it has some angle snapping applied inherently.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Max, what power plan should be set? I never knew about that windows update, either. Install it?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I would say not to install it because it drastically changes your xvelocity results.

Currently I think leaving window's power plan on balanced might give more accurate description of mouse performance. But I'm not sure on this one yet.


----------



## bond10

Which of the zowie mice have the softest and quietest clicks?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Which of the zowie mice have the softest and quietest clicks?


I wouldn't exactly say any of them are soft, but the EC-A series is softer than the FK series and apparently the ZA series is the same way.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I wouldn't exactly say any of them are soft, but the EC-A series is softer than the FK series and apparently the ZA series is the same way.


Definitely not quiet either.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> Definitely not quiet either.


I've had louder. They don't bother me, but that is subjective.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Which of the zowie mice have the softest and quietest clicks?


The EC series has the switches behind the scroll wheel. The AM/FK/ZA has the switches in-front of the wheel. Therefore, the EC series makes it easier to actuate the buttons.


----------



## ramraze

What are the day 2/3 impressions of Zowie ZA users?


----------



## Aventadoor

This sums up how I feel about the ZA11 so far.


----------



## detto87

Sorry I have to ask but ranks? That guy at the car doesn't hit one single shot.


----------



## Aventadoor

Yeah... CSGO is pretty messed up atm... I'm LE.


----------



## ramraze

Yup well I guess csers will be happy with half-baked zowie products. Gg. Probably everybody will praise the thinness of the ZA series.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Yeah... CSGO is pretty messed up atm... I'm LE.


Good 3310 implementation?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Yup well I guess csers will be happy with half-baked zowie products. Gg. Probably everybody will praise the thinness of the ZA series.


They're on a kind of hype train atm, yes. Since last years Dreamhack Winter 2014 the EC2 wave began to spread and a broader audience started to get interested in Zowie mice. While their shapes are still very good, I have a very hard time ever spending money on a Zowie mouse again, as they just don't care about obvious flaws and bugs and won't fix em for months or even years.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> Yeah... CSGO is pretty messed up atm... I'm LE.


Yes, VAC ban wave had its impact. Had though. Already meeting enough hackers again in the upper ranks. But I'm off from MM after reaching global anyway. PCW is where the fun is now.


----------



## CookieBook

Everybody at global sucks...


----------



## auzcar

I still feel very comfy with this mouse, just as day one, my aim is still not back on the same level though. I'm a bit worried since I usually adapt very quickly.

On another note, weirdly enough the rattling in my scroll wheel seems to have gone away.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CookieBook*
> 
> Everybody at global sucks...


So what's your rank?

Does anybody else think it's weird that the only reviews of the mouse are the ones here on overclock?


----------



## auzcar

I would like to hear from someone that tried both the ZA11 and the ZA12. Usually I like the largest versions but I'm a bit intrigued by the ZA12 actually. I'm just worried about cramps because of how thin it is.

To the ones who tried both; Is the overall size difference very noticeable? Is the difference most noticeable in width or height?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I would like to hear from someone that tried both the ZA11 and the ZA12. Usually I like the largest versions but I'm a bit intrigued by the ZA12 actually. I'm just worried about cramps because of how thin it is.
> 
> To the ones who tried both; Is the overall size difference very noticeable? Is the difference most noticeable in width or height?


I have all three. I would say the width makes the biggest difference.


----------



## Sencha

Daavid which do you like like? hand size?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

I apologize for the crappy iPad quality, but here are the promised images. Just got them in the mail. ZA11 with Sensei, FK1, and Comfort Mouse 6000, ZA12 with WMO and Sensei, and ZA13 with G303 and Roccat Lua:



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!










The surprise of the century for me has been how much I like the ZA13. I'm not normally a big fan of smaller mice, but it's so comfortable. Gonna try them all out in-game before I come to a final verdict.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I apologize for the crappy iPad quality, but here are the promised images. Just got them in the mail. ZA11 with Sensei, FK1, and Comfort Mouse 6000, ZA12 with WMO and Sensei, and ZA13 with G303 and Roccat Lua:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The surprise of the century for me has been how much I like the ZA13. I'm not normally a big fan of smaller mice, but it's so comfortable. Gonna try them all out in-game before I come to a final verdict.


Which of them feels the most like FK1 size-wise?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Which of them feels the most like FK1 size-wise?


For me, it's the ZA12.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I apologize for the crappy iPad quality, but here are the promised images. Just got them in the mail. ZA11 with Sensei, FK1, and Comfort Mouse 6000, ZA12 with WMO and Sensei, and ZA13 with G303 and Roccat Lua:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The surprise of the century for me has been how much I like the ZA13. I'm not normally a big fan of smaller mice, but it's so comfortable. Gonna try them all out in-game before I come to a final verdict.


Thanks you so much for posting the photos.


----------



## popups

The ZA13 must be a lot more comfortable than the G302/3. The scroll wheel is further forward, it's rounder and the side buttons are more accessible.


----------



## Aventadoor

I cant comment on this 100%, but to me, the sensor performance in the ZA11 feels more responsive then the EC2-A.
Overall im very pleased with the mouse, and its the best mouse ive had so far.


----------



## aleexkrysel

How stiff are the clicks on these babies? Suitable for "MOBA use"?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I apologize for the crappy iPad quality, but here are the promised images. Just got them in the mail. ZA11 with Sensei, FK1, and Comfort Mouse 6000, ZA12 with WMO and Sensei, and ZA13 with G303 and Roccat Lua:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The surprise of the century for me has been how much I like the ZA13. I'm not normally a big fan of smaller mice, but it's so comfortable. Gonna try them all out in-game before I come to a final verdict.


Nice pics


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Just played a couple rounds of DM. I'm a little frustrated, but extremely pleased at the same time.

The ZA13, while it was comfortable on my initial impressions, cramped my hand something fierce in-game and wasn't nearly wide enough for me. Will be awesome for smaller hands, I reckon.

The ZA12 was much better, but still a bit too thin for me and I had trouble getting that "feedback" from the rear of it in my palm. Just not long enough for my monster hands. I'd say this is what you'd want to get if you're looking for something similar to the FK1 with a bit more support in the back.

Then came the ZA11. Really, REALLY nice. It's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used in a palm grip so far. Reminds me of a longer, wider Sensei with more "ass." It's not as long as the Rival, so my fingers still hung over the edges a bit, but its ambidextrous shape makes it way nicer for me. I wish more companies would take a page from the Razer Imperator and let you adjust the side buttons to be farther/less forward though, because I have trouble reaching the side buttons in a palm grip. The little lip near the buttons that protrudes so your finger can go under it is a bit annoying as well, but a slight adjustment of my grip made these problems non-existent. I just wish they weren't problems for me to begin with, because if Zowie were to take the lip away, allow you to adjust the side buttons, and made it just a tad longer (perhaps 132mm), I would be able to use this mouse in any grip and no adjustment would be necessary.

But the biggest problem with the ZA11 for me is the weight. The ZA12's weight is perfect, but the ZA11 is noticeably heavier, and that makes it a bit less precise for me when going from small corrections to fast flicks. It's such a shame, because aside from this and the (VERY) minor complaints I have with the design, the overall product is pretty much spot-on for what I want in a mouse. I'm going to wait for the ambidextrous Rival to drop before deciding on the ZA11 as the best mouse I've used, but until then, it's the closest to perfection I've found so far.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Nice pics


Rofl, thank you.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Just played a couple rounds of DM. I'm a little frustrated, but extremely pleased at the same time.
> 
> The ZA13, while it was comfortable on my initial impressions, cramped my hand something fierce in-game and wasn't nearly wide enough for me. Will be awesome for smaller hands, I reckon.
> 
> The ZA12 was much better, but still a bit too thin for me and I had trouble getting that "feedback" from the rear of it in my palm. Just not long enough for my monster hands. I'd say this is what you'd want to get if you're looking for something similar to the FK1 with a bit more support in the back.
> 
> Then came the ZA11. Really, REALLY nice. It's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used in a palm grip so far. Reminds me of a longer, wider Sensei with more "ass." It's not as long as the Rival, so my fingers still hung over the edges a bit, but its ambidextrous shape makes it way nicer for me. I wish more companies would take a page from the Razer Imperator and let you adjust the side buttons to be farther/less forward though, because I have trouble reaching the side buttons in a palm grip. The little lip near the buttons that protrudes so your finger can go under it is a bit annoying as well, but a slight adjustment of my grip made these problems non-existent. I just wish they weren't problems for me to begin with, because if Zowie were to take the lip away, allow you to adjust the side buttons, and made it just a tad longer (perhaps 132mm), I would be able to use this mouse in any grip and no adjustment would be necessary.
> 
> But the biggest problem with the ZA11 for me is the weight. The ZA12's weight is perfect, but the ZA11 is noticeably heavier, and that makes it a bit less precise for me when going from small corrections to fast flicks. It's such a shame, because aside from this and the (VERY) minor complaints I have with the design, the overall product is pretty much spot-on for what I want in a mouse. I'm going to wait for the ambidextrous Rival to drop before deciding on the ZA11 as the best mouse I've used, but until then, it's the closest to perfection I've found so far.
> Rofl, thank you.


What size hands do you have old chap?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> What size hands do you have old chap?


Definitely not the biggest hands out there, but I've been told they're longer/lankier than average in the finger region. "Monster" is probably an exaggeration.







About 18cm from base to end of my middle finger according to Google.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Here's how I grip the mouse with my palm touching the entire butt. Fingers hang over the edges a bit and the side button at the back is a bit difficult for me to get to.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







And here's how I've adjusted my grip:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I cant comment on this 100%, but to me, the sensor performance in the ZA11 feels more responsive then the EC2-A.
> Overall im very pleased with the mouse, and its the best mouse ive had so far.


Ino's graphs show the same thing compared to the FK1.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aleexkrysel*
> 
> How stiff are the clicks on these babies? Suitable for "MOBA use"?


I'd say they're lighter than the FK1's by quite a bit, but still quite a bit heavier than Omrons. Kind of a middle ground between FK1 and Omron in my opinion.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I'd say they're lighter than the FK1's by quite a bit, but still quite a bit heavier than Omrons. Kind of a middle ground between FK1 and Omron in my opinion.


Have you ever had a deathadder? Can you say that the ZA11 definitely feels smaller than the deathadder?

Also, what is that note about a ambi-rival???? where??


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Have you ever had a deathadder? Can you say that the ZA11 definitely feels smaller than the deathadder?
> 
> Also, what is that note about a ambi-rival???? where??


The ambidextrous Rival was confirmed by a Steelseries rep on Reddit: http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b9/b920df34_kK2aLrC.png

And personally, I think the Deathadder feels a lot shorter than the Zowie, both height and length. The slope of the Deathadder doesn't even touch my palm, so I think that's the reason why. It's very aggressively sloped downwards instead of up like on the ZA mice, and there's more "concave-ness" to the buttons than on the ZA.

Might re-take the earlier photos because the lighting in my room is way better than out in the living room.


----------



## auzcar

An ambidextrous Rival sounds nice, although that would be very similar to the ZA11. When I first saw the pictures of the ZA that was my first thought, "that looks like an ambidextrous Rival".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I have all three. I would say the width makes the biggest difference.


Oh rats! I will probably end up trying the ZA12 anyway though.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Definitely not the biggest hands out there, but I've been told they're longer/lankier than average in the finger region. "Monster" is probably an exaggeration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 18cm from base to end of my middle finger according to Google.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's how I grip the mouse with my palm touching the entire butt. Fingers hang over the edges a bit and the side button at the back is a bit difficult for me to get to.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's how I've adjusted my grip:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Which ZA mouse is that in those pics?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Which ZA mouse is that in those pics?


ZA11.


----------



## popups

An symmetrical Rival?

Something like this would be cool.


SteelSeries should make something like a G302/3, Diamondback/G100 and Intellimouse Optical. The arch, the separate buttons piece and the rear height of the G302/3 or Diamondback. The roundness, the scroll wheel position, the width and the flat main buttons of the Intellimouse Optical. The front height of the Diamonback or Intellimouse Optical. The pointy rear of the Diamondback or G100. With a length of ~115-130mm depending on the shape. The side button position of the ZA.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Daavid which do you like like? hand size?


I have not tried the 11 more than holding it, never plugged it in yet. 13 feels best so far. My hands are about 20 cm.


----------



## Arizonian

For those of you with all three, any differences in the scroll wheel's side to side movement or rattling between them?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> For those of you with all three, any differences in the scroll wheel's side to side movement or rattling between them?


All three of mine are pretty much the same. The 13 and 12 are a tad looser than the 11, but it's nothing noticeable unless you were to actively go looking for it. No rattle either.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> All three of mine are pretty much the same. The 13 and 12 are a tad looser than the 11, but it's nothing noticeable unless you were to actively go looking for it. No rattle either.


thank

Thank you.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> For those of you with all three, any differences in the scroll wheel's side to side movement or rattling between them?


My 11 rattle alot, 12 rattle a bit and 13 does not rattle.


----------



## ramraze

Yes The Za11 is comfortable in terms of height and ambi fit, but you'd have to mention that it's too narrow for everybody except for really hard clawgrippers.
After day 3 I got rid of my hand strain and felt quite good with the mouse in terms of ergonomics, but still aim is even more off. Compared to my mediocre Alcor, I noticed a difference in accuracy anywhere from 3-10% That's quite a lot.

With each day passing I get more used to it but feel less like I want to keep it









Too bad no Sensei Optical is coming any time soon. That means at least a year until the Ambi Rival will come.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> My 11 rattle alot, 12 rattle a bit and 13 does not rattle.


Still no rattle reported on the 13, I think.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Just played a couple rounds of DM. I'm a little frustrated, but extremely pleased at the same time.
> 
> The ZA13, while it was comfortable on my initial impressions, cramped my hand something fierce in-game and wasn't nearly wide enough for me. Will be awesome for smaller hands, I reckon.
> 
> The ZA12 was much better, but still a bit too thin for me and I had trouble getting that "feedback" from the rear of it in my palm. Just not long enough for my monster hands. I'd say this is what you'd want to get if you're looking for something similar to the FK1 with a bit more support in the back.
> 
> Then came the ZA11. Really, REALLY nice. It's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used in a palm grip so far. Reminds me of a longer, wider Sensei with more "ass." It's not as long as the Rival, so my fingers still hung over the edges a bit, but its ambidextrous shape makes it way nicer for me. I wish more companies would take a page from the Razer Imperator and let you adjust the side buttons to be farther/less forward though, because I have trouble reaching the side buttons in a palm grip. The little lip near the buttons that protrudes so your finger can go under it is a bit annoying as well, but a slight adjustment of my grip made these problems non-existent. I just wish they weren't problems for me to begin with, because if Zowie were to take the lip away, allow you to adjust the side buttons, and made it just a tad longer (perhaps 132mm), I would be able to use this mouse in any grip and no adjustment would be necessary.
> 
> But the biggest problem with the ZA11 for me is the weight. The ZA12's weight is perfect, but the ZA11 is noticeably heavier, and that makes it a bit less precise for me when going from small corrections to fast flicks. It's such a shame, because aside from this and the (VERY) minor complaints I have with the design, the overall product is pretty much spot-on for what I want in a mouse. I'm going to wait for the ambidextrous Rival to drop before deciding on the ZA11 as the best mouse I've used, but until then, it's the closest to perfection I've found so far.
> Rofl, thank you.


Did the FK1 cramp your hand?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

I opened my ZA11 to try and lower the weight. Here's a PCB pic:



Sadly, there aren't any weights in it as far as I can see, so I'm stuck with the current weight. It's frustrating, because I played a comp match of CS:GO and switched to the ZA12 and the half and found it to be a bit nicer for aiming because of how light it was. I also noticed that the side-button placement on the ZA11 and ZA12 is the same, which is bad for me because to palm grip the ZA11 properly, I would need the side buttons moved a bit farther up to compensate for its extra length. Instead, I have to adjust my grip to suit how I want to press the side buttons, which makes the ZA11 and ZA12 feel very similar and completely ruins the benefits the extra length of the ZA11 provides. It's such a shame, because the ZA11 is really, REALLY close to being perfect for me, but I might actually switch over the ZA12 just because of the benefits it provides over the ZA11.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Did the FK1 cramp your hand?


Not if I didn't try to palm it.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I opened my ZA11 to try and lower the weight. Here's a PCB pic:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, there aren't any weights in it as far as I can see, so I'm stuck with the current weight. It's frustrating, because I played a comp match of CS:GO and switched to the ZA12 and the half and found it to be a bit nicer for aiming because of how light it was. I also noticed that the side-button placement on the ZA11 and ZA12 is the same, which is bad for me because to palm grip the ZA11 properly, I would need the side buttons moved a bit farther up to compensate for its extra length. Instead, I have to adjust my grip to suit how I want to press the side buttons, which makes the ZA11 and ZA12 feel very similar and completely ruins the benefits the extra length of the ZA11 provides. It's such a shame, because the ZA11 is really, REALLY close to being perfect for me, but I might actually switch over the ZA12 just because of the benefits it provides over the ZA11.


Lolwut, but if it's like 3g lighter. Don't tell me that you can notice a 3g difference.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Lolwut, but if it's like 3g lighter. Don't tell me that you can notice a 3g difference.


Could be placebo, or the smaller shape playing tricks on me, but the ZA11 feels heavier than the ZA12 to me. Your mileage may vary, it's just my own personal observations.


----------



## a_ak57

I remember reading somewhere that the ZA13 is 80g, ZA12 85g and ZA11 90g. A 5g difference is noticeable, especially if you're comparing the mice back and forth.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I opened my ZA11 to try and lower the weight.
> 
> Sadly, there aren't any weights in it as far as I can see, so I'm stuck with the current weight. It's frustrating, because I played a comp match of CS:GO and switched to the ZA12 and the half and found it to be a bit nicer for aiming because of how light it was. I also noticed that the side-button placement on the ZA11 and ZA12 is the same, which is bad for me because to palm grip the ZA11 properly, I would need the side buttons moved a bit farther up to compensate for its extra length. Instead, I have to adjust my grip to suit how I want to press the side buttons, which makes the ZA11 and ZA12 feel very similar and completely ruins the benefits the extra length of the ZA11 provides. It's such a shame, because the ZA11 is really, REALLY close to being perfect for me, but I might actually switch over the ZA12 just because of the benefits it provides over the ZA11.
> Not if I didn't try to palm it.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1465446/zowie-fk-weight-reduction-to-wmo-kinzu-weight/0_20#post_21742864

The extra length of the ZA11, over the ZA12, comes from the rear or the front?

I like the front (depending on the shape) to be longer than the rear because the best way to control a mouse is to have your palm contacting the surface. If you rest your palm on top of the mouse you lose some precision and you put weight on the mouse. I find some mice have 5-10mm of unusable area at the rear that could be used at the front instead. The G302/3 is a short mouse but the arch makes up for it.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1465446/zowie-fk-weight-reduction-to-wmo-kinzu-weight/0_20#post_21742864
> 
> The extra length of the ZA11, over the ZA12, comes from the rear or the front?
> 
> I like the front (depending on the shape) to be longer than the rear because the best way to control a mouse is to have your palm contacting the surface. If you rest your palm on top of the mouse you lose some precision and you put weight on the mouse. I find some mice have 5-10mm of unusable area at the rear that could be used at the front instead. The G302/3 is a short mouse but the arch makes up for it.


Awesome link. I'll definitely give that a try.

Your observation is interesting, about how some mice have a ton of unusable space at the rear. Reminds me of the Abyssus. Small butt that fit nicely in my palm with the majority of the length coming from the buttons. A really longer Abyssus 2010 would probably be awesome.

ZA11 is slightly longer in the front from what I can tell. It's a 4mm difference, but I honestly can't tell all that much when I'm using a forced grip rather than my preferred grip so I can hit the side buttons more easily. I didn't notice it right away, but it became really apparent when playing competitive in CS. The width and height is what I love so much about the 11 over the 12. Gives a much "fuller" feeling in the hand at the front, but not so much in the back where the butt touches your palm.

What do you mean by "Palm contacting the surface?" I thought that meant having your whole palm on top of the mouse.


----------



## raixt

Which one is closest to Xai/Sensei?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> What do you mean by "Palm contacting the surface?" I thought that meant having your whole palm on top of the mouse.


I meant having your palm on the mouse pad. Place your hand on the pad and bring the mouse into your palm. That way a lot of your palm is resting on the mouse pad.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Yes The Za11 is comfortable in terms of height and ambi fit, but you'd have to mention that it's too narrow for everybody except for really hard clawgrippers.
> After day 3 I got rid of my hand strain and felt quite good with the mouse in terms of ergonomics, but still aim is even more off. Compared to my mediocre Alcor, I noticed a difference in accuracy anywhere from 3-10% That's quite a lot.
> 
> With each day passing I get more used to it but feel less like I want to keep it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad no Sensei Optical is coming any time soon. That means at least a year until the Ambi Rival will come.


I'm feeling the loss in accuracy as well, it's pretty frustrating since the ZA11 fits like a glove in my hand and is probably the most comfortable mouse I've ever used. This just goes to show, the most comfy mouse is usually not the one you can control the best.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I'm feeling the loss in accuracy as well, it's pretty frustrating since the ZA11 fits like a glove in my hand and is probably the most comfortable mouse I've ever used. This just goes to show, the most comfy mouse is usually not the one you can control the best.


At least someone confirms my findings. Thought I was going nuts







But yeah, it's funny how actually on paper it is wide enough, but in reality it isn't. Also when you look at the side profile, then 62 is the absolute widest. It's not where you grip, though. Most people grip the lower part of the center area, which is quite narrow. Also, the butt doesn't fill your hand as much horizontally. i guess those are the main reasons.


----------



## ramraze

Btw, a friend of mine weighed his Za-11, which sat at 92g on his scale, whereas other mice are accurate on his scale in terms of weight. So, what zowie does is exaggerate the weight as well? Basically we are getting wrong dimensions and wrong weight







GG wp


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> At least someone confirms my findings. Thought I was going nuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, it's funny how actually on paper it is wide enough, but in reality it isn't. Also when you look at the side profile, then 62 is the absolute widest. It's not where you grip, though. Most people grip the lower part of the center area, which is quite narrow. Also, the butt doesn't fill your hand as much horizontally. i guess those are the main reasons.


For me I think it's the width to height ratio that throws off my aim. I prefer mice that feels wider than they feel high, it just feels more stable and consistent for me. It's the same with the G400/MX, I love the shape but it throws off my aim. Even though the FK1 cramps my hand it's still the mouse I can aim the best with, along with the Xai/Sensei.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> For me I think it's the width to height ratio that throws off my aim. I prefer mice that feels wider than they feel high, it just feels more stable and consistent for me. It's the same with the G400/MX, I love the shape but it throws off my aim. Even though the FK1 cramps my hand it's still the mouse I can aim the best with, along with the Xai/Sensei.


+1. But for me fk1 is even worse Since it's got no height


----------



## espk

Is there any Zowie mouse with a rubber coating like the EC1 eVo? I really dislike the EC1-A's slippery coating

Any reason why they changed this?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espk*
> 
> Is there any Zowie mouse with a rubber coating like the EC1 eVo? I really dislike the EC1-A's slippery coating
> 
> Any reason why they changed this?


There isn't, but if you can get a hold of an Ec1 Evo, apparently you can change the shells.
Most people couldn't grip the rubberized coating, so they requested something more greasy I guess. Having the same thoughts as you, though.


----------



## auzcar

Sometimes I wish I had just stuck to the MX-shape which was my first gaming mouse and I used it for 6-7 years. Trying all these mice makes you see the small flaws and you're never really happy and satisfied. Because you simply can't get it all.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> At least someone confirms my findings. Thought I was going nuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, it's funny how actually on paper it is wide enough, but in reality it isn't. Also when you look at the side profile, then 62 is the absolute widest. It's not where you grip, though. Most people grip the lower part of the center area, which is quite narrow. Also, the butt doesn't fill your hand as much horizontally. i guess those are the main reasons.


I hate to admit it because palm grip is so comfortable, but I agree with you and auzcar as well. The less of the butt is in my palm, the easier moving the mouse with precision becomes for me. Unfortunately, the most comfortable grip for me involves having the entire butt in the palm of my hand.


----------



## Suzukigil

I have a deathadder and I'm thinking of getting a Zowie. Which one would be the closest to it besides the EC series, i was not a fan of it's ergonomic shape.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Suzukigil*
> 
> I have a deathadder and I'm thinking of getting a Zowie. Which one would be the closest to it besides the EC series, i was not a fan of it's ergonomic shape.


Well then, there are none







You could maybe get away with ZA-11, but given the reduced width you might experience cramps/ discomfort or a drop in accuracy. If you are good and comfortable with a deathadder, I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to change, unless you want less weight. Ec1-A and Ec2-A are still good options IMO since they can be used in most gripstyles.


----------



## Suzukigil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Well then, there are none
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could maybe get away with ZA-11, but given the reduced width you might experience cramps/ discomfort or a drop in accuracy. If you are good and comfortable with a deathadder, I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to change, unless you want less weight. Ec1-A and Ec2-A are still good options IMO since they can be used in most gripstyles.


I want to change because I go through skates really quickly on the Razer. I also tried my friend's G100 (?) and i was a fan of the lack of weight


----------



## auzcar

Personally I would be fine with an ergonomic mouse if the right side wasn't so damn slanted on all of them. I just can't get a relaxed grip while lifting the mouse. I'm even thinking about changing my grip and straighten out my ring and pinky, now I claw with them as well. Those fingers are always the problem for me.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> Personally I would be fine with an ergonomic mouse if the right side wasn't so damn slanted on all of them. I just can't get a relaxed grip while lifting the mouse. I'm even thinking about changing my grip and straighten out my ring and pinky, now I claw with them as well. Those fingers are always the problem for me.


Same problem for me, especially if it's on the thumb side. AM / Savu left side / Deathadder right side are no good for me.


----------



## bond10

Anyone know if the ZA, FK, and EC series all have the same coating? Someone in the EC thread said the EC isn't good for dry hands (The FK coating was AMAZING for my dry hands). But it looks like the ZA and FK have the same coating, why would zowie keep the EC different?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Anyone know if the ZA, FK, and EC series all have the same coating? Someone in the EC thread said the EC isn't good for dry hands (The FK coating was AMAZING for my dry hands). But it looks like the ZA and FK have the same coating, why would zowie keep the EC different?


IIRC, Zowie has continuously used the same coating. They have only changed how they apply the coating to prevent it from peeling, which can change the feel.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Anyone know if the ZA, FK, and EC series all have the same coating? Someone in the EC thread said the EC isn't good for dry hands (The FK coating was AMAZING for my dry hands). But it looks like the ZA and FK have the same coating, why would zowie keep the EC different?


Having tried them all, they don't. It could be classified as the same type of coating, but I can explain how they feel different.
Ec-A has a way smoother coating. The top shell of the Ec-A is the same as the Ec Evo CL, means it's matte-ish. This feels smooth and fine like regular rubber paint, but very grippy(not as grippy as gloss, but not far from it) when it gets even a little moist. It's still decently grippy with dry hands, as well. It's not recommended for very sweaty hands, as the grip gets worse if you sweat too much.

However, on the sides it's normal matte plastic, which feels like that there is no coating. At least my ec1-a and ec2-a felt the same. It gives some grip with both dry hands and moist hands, but isn't ideal neither in the grip it gives nor the feeling when you get when you sweat a little bit, making them feel greasy and slightly slippery. So, the sides aren't as grippy as the top part.

That's my subjective experience.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Having tried them all, they don't. It could be classified as the same type of coating, but I can explain how they feel different. Ec-A has a way smoother coating. The top shell of the Ec-A is the same as the Ec Evo CL, means it's matte-ish, but very grippy(not as grippy as gloss, but not far from it) when it gets even a little moist. It's still decently grippy with dry hands, as well.
> However, on the sides it's normal matte plastic, which feels like that there is no coating. At least my ec1-a and ec2-a felt the same. It gives some grip with both dry hands and moist hands, but isn't ideal. So, the sides aren't as grippy as the top part. That's my subjective experience.


My experience with the EC1-A is similar.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Fun fact: Looks like most of Team EnVyUs (Three players, I think) are using an EC2


----------



## LegoFarmer

Video review of ZA series


----------



## espk

My issue with the EC1-A was the slickness of the shell with my dry hands. I couldn't use it comfortably unless I my hands had some moisture to them. I'd either have to wet then dry my hands first or use a bit of lotion to keep it grippable. Is it slightly smaller or flatter than the EC1 evo? Maybe that had something to do with it as well. I might just try again with whichever is closest to the evo in size/shape


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espk*
> 
> My issue with the EC1-A was the slickness of the shell with my dry hands. I couldn't use it comfortably unless I my hands had some moisture to them. I'd either have to wet then dry my hands first or use a bit of lotion to keep it grippable. Is it slightly smaller or flatter than the EC1 evo? Maybe that had something to do with it as well. I might just try again with whichever is closest to the evo in size/shape


Have you tried an FK1/FK2? Were those slippery for you?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Have you tried an FK1/FK2? Were those slippery for you?


I have dry hands, I prefer the old FK coating over the FK1 coating. I would love Zowie if they started with glossy mice again.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I have dry hands, I prefer the old FK coating over the FK1 coating. I would love Zowie if they started with glossy mice again.


I'd love a white glossy FK2.


----------



## espk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Have you tried an FK1/FK2? Were those slippery for you?


I did, but it was about a year ago. I only remember it being too flat and narrow for my liking


----------



## bond10

Is the butt on the ZA rounded on the sides like the steelseries ambi-dextrous mice? Or is it basically the FK butt just raised?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Is the butt on the ZA rounded on the sides like the steelseries ambi-dextrous mice? Or is it basically the FK butt just raised?


It's nothing like Kana or Sensei. It's just a raised FK1 unfortunately.


----------



## caitengsta

all they needed to do was make it a little wider and a little taller.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> No longer intrigued by the ZA series?


Just disappointed, 'is all. Not really. Every passing day my aim gets worse with the Za-11. Donno why.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Just disappointed, 'is all. Not really. Every passing day my aim gets worse with the Za-11. Donno why.


Keep an eye on FinalMouse. Their next shape will be similar to the WMO. Maybe a ZA12 would have worked better for you?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Keep an eye on FinalMouse. Their next shape will be similar to the WMO. Maybe a ZA12 would have worked better for you?


That can't be, because it's even thinner. Gonna try to go with an EC1-A for now. I was slightly allergic to the first release







Also, you can only get it from NA i believe.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> That can't be, because it's even thinner. Gonna try to go with an EC1-A for now. I was slightly allergic to the first release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you can only get it from NA i believe.


I believe Jude said FM will have shipments sent to Europe, as well


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> No longer intrigued by the ZA series?


I've been using a deathadder for over a year. I wish the front was lower, a bit thinner all around, and my ring finger goes beyond the upper right corner which is annoying as the corner digs into my finger. The mouse is slippery as hell too with my dry hands. The FK1 was amazing, but the clicks were so hard to press that I returned it.

All I want is an FK1 with lighter clicks. The little wings in the front is also perfect. I'm a palm gripper with the same grip style as Ino:


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> That can't be, because it's even thinner. Gonna try to go with an EC1-A for now. I was slightly allergic to the first release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you can only get it from NA i believe.


What previous mice did you use and what did you find comfortable?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> What previous mice did you use and what did you find comfortable?


Check my sig. Most comfy mice that I tried were Cm Storm Alcor, Rival, Sensei, Kana, Deathadder, Ec1-A, G402(too thin as well), Rog Gladius (way too heavy), g100s I believe. That's just of the top of my head.

My ideal shape is Sensei, but I can't do laser sensor anymore, since I'm at a level high enough where it starts to be counterproductive. Meaning I need flickshots, which I can't do with laser.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Check my sig. Most comfy mice that I tried were Cm Storm Alcor, Rival, Sensei, Kana, Deathadder, Ec1-A, G402(too thin as well), Rog Gladius (way too heavy), g100s I believe. That's just of the top of my head.
> 
> My ideal shape is Sensei, but I can't do laser sensor anymore, since I'm at a level high enough where it starts to be counterproductive. Meaning I need flickshots, which I can't do with laser.


WMO


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Check my sig. Most comfy mice that I tried were Cm Storm Alcor, Rival, Sensei, Kana, Deathadder, Ec1-A, G402(too thin as well), Rog Gladius (way too heavy), g100s I believe. That's just of the top of my head.
> 
> My ideal shape is Sensei, but I can't do laser sensor anymore, since I'm at a level high enough where it starts to be counterproductive. Meaning I need flickshots, which I can't do with laser.


The only weird one in that list is the Kana. That's kinda thin spec-wise compared to the rest of those. I'm surprised you didn't like the ZA11 if you like the sensei.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> The only weird one in that list is the Kana. That's kinda thin spec-wise compared to the rest of those. I'm surprised you didn't like the ZA11 if you like the sensei.


Probably because the arch is in like the very back. It should be up a little bit.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably because the arch is in like the very back. It should be up a little bit.


That's also a concern. The rival was almost perfect for me but the front was too long and straight. The ZA mice look like that have that style of front. I hope it doesn't have that same problem as the Rival.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> That's also a concern. The rival was almost perfect for me but the front was too long and straight. The ZA mice look like that have that style of front. I hope it doesn't have that same problem as the Rival.


I'm surprised the video reviewer didn't like the shells for claw grip. I have some logitech mouse (m510) that looks similar to the ZA series. I can use it in all three grips just fine despite the fact that it has a bad sensor (Just casual desktop user-oriented) and wireless.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Just disappointed, 'is all. Not really. Every passing day my aim gets worse with the Za-11. Donno why.


Mental block.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> WMO


Yes, Ive tried it. Only one problem - my sens is 45-50 cm per 360. Tried to lessen it but found myself coming back to it. So, i'd need at least 2.5 m/s safe pcs.
No worries, I'm going back to Ec1-A.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> The only weird one in that list is the Kana. That's kinda thin spec-wise compared to the rest of those. I'm surprised you didn't like the ZA11 if you like the sensei.


Yes, I've been trying to point out in this thread that Za-11 has slightly exaggerated numbers+the Kana feels way thicker somehow.
It's not that I don't like Za-11, I could play with it, just bummed that my aim is unstable. I have to claw as hard as I can to make it more stable which is really unnatural for me. Basically, the thinness doesn't bother me ergonomically, just in performance.

To back this up, every mouse that was thick and high enough, when I picked it up, my aim was way better than with za11, even after 3 min. I remember I played with the kana v2 for 5 min and I was hitting like 5-10% higher LG than with za11. Same with g302, after 2 min I could hit insane % comparing to my normal - however didn't like the shape much.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I apologize for the crappy iPad quality, but here are the promised images. Just got them in the mail. ZA11 with Sensei, FK1, and Comfort Mouse 6000, ZA12 with WMO and Sensei, and ZA13 with G303 and Roccat Lua:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The surprise of the century for me has been how much I like the ZA13. I'm not normally a big fan of smaller mice, but it's so comfortable. Gonna try them all out in-game before I come to a final verdict.


Crazy how much wider the WMO is compared to all those mice. And to think that the WMO is widely loved for its shape and sensor, yet everyone seems to want to make a mouse 5mm+ thinner than the WMO for some reason....

Also, xvelocity screenshots please....... http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/550_50#post_23887942


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Crazy how much wider the WMO is compared to all those mice. And to think that the WMO is widely loved for its shape and sensor, yet everyone seems to want to make a mouse 5mm+ thinner than the WMO for some reason....
> 
> Also, xvelocity screenshots please....... http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/550_50#post_23887942


Perhaps the product testers prefer thinner mice.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Perhaps the product testers prefer thinner mice.


That is possible, but that is a poor way to release a mouse. Must do research and listen to the majority. FM has probably done this better than any other mouse manufacturer. I'll give my opinion on it when I get mine.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Video review of ZA series


Thanks for the link!

He mentions one important aspect: "my hand has a natural tendency to claw". I feel the same as soon as I'm more "in the game" or need to make imporant flicks and so on. When doing that with a relaxed palm grip it's only possible with a sens low enough so every movement comes from the arm. Not always possible, I'd need to lower my sens to about 70-80cm for that which I don't want to. With a more universal shape like WMO I can relax the grip a bit for smooth turns and basic stuff, but grip it very tight for quick fast flicks AND precise stopping. More control basically.

The ZA11 is probably too big for my 19cm hand too if I want to be able to claw when needed. He might be right about ZA12 being the sweet spot (oh wonders, the middle size fits best!).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> My ideal shape is Sensei, but I can't do laser sensor anymore, since I'm at a level high enough where it starts to be counterproductive. Meaning I need flickshots, which I can't do with laser.


Higher level than JW who uses a Sensei .. ?







I can relate though. As soon as you know that sth might be fishy with the sensor, you will always look at your mouse when performance isn't as you want it to.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Crazy how much wider the WMO is compared to all those mice. And to think that the WMO is widely loved for its shape and sensor, yet everyone seems to want to make a mouse 5mm+ thinner than the WMO for some reason....


I don't get it either. The ZA12 with the hill a slight bit more to the center and overall more width would be perfect. But instead we get 3 sizes from which none really does a fulfilling job shape wise.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Higher level than JW who uses a Sensei .. ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can relate though. As soon as you know that sth might be fishy with the sensor, you will always look at your mouse when performance isn't as you want it to.


Yeah, using a laser sensor is okay once you're used to it like JW. I personally can't get used to them because I am so used to optical sensors, even though laser mice are technically optical. You know what I mean


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Perhaps the product testers prefer thinner mice.


It's probably also partly due to making mice for 1 grip only. Like only for claw/fingertip grip.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Thanks for the link!
> 
> He mentions one important aspect: "my hand has a natural tendency to claw". I feel the same as soon as I'm more "in the game" or need to make imporant flicks and so on. When doing that with a relaxed palm grip it's only possible with a sens low enough so every movement comes from the arm. Not always possible, I'd need to lower my sens to about 70-80cm for that which I don't want to. With a more universal shape like WMO I can relax the grip a bit for smooth turns and basic stuff, but grip it very tight for quick fast flicks AND precise stopping. More control basically.
> 
> *The ZA11 is probably too big for my 19cm hand too if I want to be able to claw when needed.* He might be right about ZA12 being the sweet spot (oh wonders, the middle size fits best!).
> Higher level than JW who uses a Sensei .. ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can relate though. As soon as you know that sth might be fishy with the sensor, you will always look at your mouse when performance isn't as you want it to.
> I don't get it either. The ZA12 with the hill a slight bit more to the center and overall more width would be perfect. But instead we get 3 sizes from which none really does a fulfilling job shape wise.


Why not just play with an FK mouse if you want to claw grip?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Why not just play with an FK mouse if you want to claw grip?


A lot of people use different grips for different games. Ideally, a good mouse should be usable in all three grips.


----------



## PUKED

Sorry that I haven't been paying attention to this, but did Zowie improve their scroll wheels since the FK1? I've been back on my WMO because both of my FK1s shipped with defective scrollwheels.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yeah, using a laser sensor is okay once you're used to it like JW. I personally can't get used to them because I am so used to optical sensors, even though laser mice are technically optical. You know what I mean


Yeah. I used a sensei for a year, and while liking the shape, i remember i had all sorts of tracking issues on qck+, low malfunction speed, inaccuracy sensor stopping tracking and who knows what. After that I realized that it's not accel per se but high enough variance.
Now I am so used to optical that I can't go back.

To me, most csgo players aren't exactly the hallmark of human perfection. So they can use what they want and be on the top, that doesn't mean that I can do that. JW is probably so used to it that can do it.

Btw I think Zowie was unable to make any big changes because of pcb and sfuff, so the lack of width was most likely a cost-related thing.


----------



## auzcar

I'm also quite convinced it was because of costs that they kept the width.

My plans going forward is to give the ZA11 a few more hours tonight and if my aim still feel disconnected I'll go ahead and try the ZA12 just for the giggles. If that doesn't work out it's back to the EC1-A I guess.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PUKED*
> 
> Sorry that I haven't been paying attention to this, but did Zowie improve their scroll wheels since the FK1? I've been back on my WMO because both of my FK1s shipped with defective scrollwheels.


Probably a gamble, the wheel on my ZA11 isn't good. Rattle and the click is odd at certain points of the revolution.


----------



## Sencha

For those in the UK Kustompcs has these now. Just ordered with them.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those in the UK Kustompcs has these now. Just ordered with them.


11, 12, or 13?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those in the UK Kustompcs has these now. Just ordered with them.


Good, I am already returning mine after 6 days of usage









Also back to the heavy, but good ol' Ec1-A.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> 11, 12, or 13?


All


----------



## Jiisus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> A lot of people use different grips for different games. Ideally, a good mouse should be usable in all three grips.


lol what? I would rather take mouse which very good for fps and other mouse that is very good for moba, rather than having one semi good one for both. Yeah like you never going to see mouse which is ideal for every grip, every game, every person, every dpi, everty polling rate...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jiisus*
> 
> lol what? I would rather take mouse which very good for fps and other mouse that is very good for moba, rather than having one semi good one for both. Yeah like you never going to see mouse which is ideal for every grip, every game, every person, every dpi, everty polling rate...


The 15 year old WMO works for all three grips for most people, yet companies still aren't interested in making a similar shape for whatever reason (Except FinalMouse). That's why I went out of my way to replace the cable and switches in my WMO. Sensor is still great and the shape is great. I'm just waiting for a mouse with a similar shape and equal or better feeling sensor.


----------



## iceskeleton

I hope finalmouse will get the width right and not thin like every other company


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> I hope finalmouse will get the width right and not thin like every other company


I think they will. They communicate.


----------



## remixedMind

i consider buying the za12 or 13 just to try it out, currently have ec2-a and im finger gripping, any one have both and can compare them?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *remixedMind*
> 
> i consider buying the za12 or 13 just to try it out, currently have ec2-a and im finger gripping, any one have both and can compare them?


ZA12 is sort of like the "One size fits all" of the ZA series from what I have acquired info on.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *remixedMind*
> 
> i consider buying the za12 or 13 just to try it out, currently have ec2-a and im finger gripping, any one have both and can compare them?


The EC2 is the same length as the ZA13 iirc. The 12 feels a lot nicer for palm gripping, but the ZA13 would probably be excellent for a fingertip grip.


----------



## offshell

I ordered the ZA11 (20+ cm hands), but after using a G303 so much, I found myself preferring a more fingertip grip and found the ZA11 too long, so I picked up a ZA13 as well. The ZA11 is much more comfortable especially with the width, but I didn't feel like I could control it as well. So far I do like the ZA13 but I'll have to use it for a while to see if it causes any discomfort being so narrow. I decided I wasn't really going to use the ZA11 at all and took the opportunity to exchange it for a ZA12 thinking I might as well try them all. I hate that I seem to prefer these small mice now.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I ordered the ZA11 (20+ cm hands), but after using a G303 so much, I found myself preferring a more fingertip grip and found the ZA11 too long, so I picked up a ZA13 as well. The ZA11 is much more comfortable especially with the width, but I didn't feel like I could control it as well. So far I do like the ZA13 but I'll have to use it for a while to see if it causes any discomfort being so narrow. I decided I wasn't really going to use the ZA11 at all and took the opportunity to exchange it for a ZA12 thinking I might as well try them all. I hate that I seem to prefer these small mice now.


Yeah, I think the ZA12 is like the "Safety net" of the ZA series. It'll fit for most people. I think the ZA11 is too big, as well. The ZA13 might be just a tad too small for me.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I ordered the ZA11 (20+ cm hands), but after using a G303 so much, I found myself preferring a more fingertip grip and found the ZA11 too long, so I picked up a ZA13 as well. The ZA11 is much more comfortable especially with the width, but I didn't feel like I could control it as well. So far I do like the ZA13 but I'll have to use it for a while to see if it causes any discomfort being so narrow. I decided I wasn't really going to use the ZA11 at all and took the opportunity to exchange it for a ZA12 thinking I might as well try them all. I hate that I seem to prefer these small mice now.


I think this is how most people feel about the ZA11 so far. Extremely comfortable, but reduces control overall. That's how I feel about it as well. Near perfect in ergonomics, but precision feels a bit lacking. Want to see if lowering the weight using the method ramraze linked helps at all.

Been using the ZA12 and, as LegoFarmer said, it really is a "one size fits all" kind of product. I like it a lot more than I did when I first tried it out.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I think this is how most people feel about the ZA11 so far. Extremely comfortable, but reduces control overall. That's how I feel about it as well. Near perfect in ergonomics, but precision feels a bit lacking. Want to see if lowering the weight using the method ramraze linked helps at all.
> 
> Been using the ZA12 and, as LegoFarmer said, it really is a "one size fits all" kind of product. I like it a lot more than I did when I first tried it out.


How do you lower the weight? Link?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> How do you lower the weight? Link?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1465446/zowie-fk-weight-reduction-to-wmo-kinzu-weight/0_20#post_21742864

Apparently it reduces the weight by around 8.5g. According to ramraze, the ZA11 is around 92g, so this would be a big help for those of us who like our mice in the 80g realm.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1465446/zowie-fk-weight-reduction-to-wmo-kinzu-weight/0_20#post_21742864
> 
> Apparently it reduces the weight by around 8.5g. According to ramraze, the ZA11 is around 92g, so this would be a big help for those of us who like our mice in the 80g realm.


I feel like I'll dislike the ZA mice and still be stuck with my WMO. At that point, I only have hope with one company (FinalMouse) to make a mouse with an equal shape, but a better sensor (Something other companies haven't really done). I hope I like the ZA, though.


----------



## remixedMind

thank you for the suggestions







btw my hands are 18cm


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *remixedMind*
> 
> thank you for the suggestions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw my hands are 18cm


My hands are about that. ZA12 should be fine, that's what I am buying (If I do decide to buy, which I probably will).


----------



## bond10

Zowie seriously needs to make a trial pack with just empty plastic shells of each mice. I want something around deathadder and FK1 size. Nothing as big as the Rival and nothing as small as an FK2. ZA11 looks like it'll meet that but posts here are leaning me towards ZA12...decisions decisions


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Zowie seriously needs to make a trial pack with just empty plastic shells of each mice. I want something around deathadder and FK1 size. Nothing as big as the Rival and nothing as small as an FK2. ZA11 looks like it'll meet that but posts here are leaning me towards ZA12...decisions decisions


Everyone says the 11 is considerably bigger than the fk1, while the 12 is like a palmable fk1.


----------



## Steele84

First impressions of the ZA11

Coming from about 8 years of the G9 series, I really had a hard time getting used to the feel of this mouse. After my first hour I was ready to box it up and send it back. However I was on a game that I unfamiliar with (CSGO) and using a new grip (palm). I found out that I was trying too hard to force the mouse into my palm which in turn made me horribly inaccurate. After I went back and tested on AA I found my stride. This mouse is alot more comfortable than m G9's, but crazily enough I wish they had one more size lager. I have big ass paws 20cm, and this mouse could be wider and taller to be perfect for me. Another member on here suggested a ROCCAT KONE XTD, and I still think I'm gonna try it out. But the more I use this mouse, the more I like it.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Everyone says the 11 is considerably bigger than the fk1, while the 12 is like a palmable fk1.


I think I'm going to like the ZA12


----------



## Mannheimer

Comming from the Xai and now uswing the Kana V2 about 10 days I am shilly-shally which Zowie would fit me best. I would buy two mice but should I take the ZA11 and FK1 or ZA11 and ZA12 or FK1 and ZA12 or paying the ZA13 more attention.
I use a combination of palm and claw grip and my hand is about 18 to 18.5cm long.


----------



## Sencha

Got the ZA11 @ 22cm hands. Feels good. Like an easier to lift FK. Not a big as change as I was expecting but its a decent improvement that this will now be my main mouse. Very comfy. Slight rattle on the wheel but nothing in game at 60-70cm/360


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mannheimer*
> 
> Comming from the Xai and now uswing the Kana V2 about 10 days I am shilly-shally which Zowie would fit me best. I would buy two mice but should I take the ZA11 and FK1 or ZA11 and ZA12 or FK1 and ZA12 or paying the ZA13 more attention.
> I use a combination of palm and claw grip and my hand is about 18 to 18.5cm long.


Use the Kana, it's way better


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Use the Kana, it's way better


The Kana is all around smaller in every way than the ZA-11.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> The Kana is all around smaller in every way than the ZA-11.


Nope, only it fills the palm better. Zowie has misquoted specs and the za11 feels way less wide


----------



## Steele84

I'll measure mine tonight, can you confirm that the Kana's specs are correct in the image?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> First impressions of the ZA11
> 
> Coming from about 8 years of the G9 series, I really had a hard time getting used to the feel of this mouse. After my first hour I was ready to box it up and send it back. However I was on a game that I unfamiliar with (CSGO) and using a new grip (palm). I found out that I was trying too hard to force the mouse into my palm which in turn made me horribly inaccurate. After I went back and tested on AA I found my stride. This mouse is alot more comfortable than m G9's, but crazily enough I wish they had one more size lager. I have big ass paws 20cm, and this mouse could be wider and taller to be perfect for me. Another member on here suggested a ROCCAT KONE XTD, and I still think I'm gonna try it out. But the more I use this mouse, the more I like it.


The XTD OPTICAL is what you want. It will fit your hands well, mine are 21cm & it's a glove.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> I'll measure mine tonight, can you confirm that the Kana's specs are correct in the image?


Nope, but this was my feeling when i compared FK1 and kana v2 side by side. It's the butt. I only know that za has exaggerated specs. The 60 mm is only at the top at the widest part, on the bottom it's narrower. Also the grippable area of the butt of za is narrower than it seems.
I do have the ZA11 here though.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The XTD OPTICAL is what you want. It will fit your hands well, mine are 21cm & it's a glove.


Yeah, I just ordered one today will do a comparison and I'll sell the loser!


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Nope, but this was my feeling when i compared FK1 and kana v2 side by side. It's the butt. I only know that za has exaggerated specs. The 60 mm is only at the top at the widest part, on the bottom it's narrower. Also the grippable area of the butt of za is narrower than it seems.
> I do have the ZA11 here though.


Sounds like someone needs to get the calipers out on this bad boy!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> Sounds like someone needs to get the calipers out on this bad boy!


This lol. If you can, use the caliper on a WMO as well compared to the ZA12.


----------



## el gappo

I'm leaning towards the ZA-12 for my new mouse but i have a feeling the buttons on the right side will annoy me, especially if there's no way to actually use them in the right hand config.

I'm a bit torn.


----------



## tehhack

I ordered a Zowie FK2 and would kindly ask if the new ZA-11/12/13 is better then the FK2 ?
If yes i have to send it back and order the new ZA.

For now i'm using a Sensei [RAW] with half claw grip and half palm grip


----------



## auzcar

It saddens me a bit but I think I have to give up on the ZA11, it's very comfy for me but like I said before I just can't aim as well with it. Back to the EC1-A it is.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> I'm leaning towards the ZA-12 for my new mouse but i have a feeling the buttons on the right side will annoy me, especially if there's no way to actually use them in the right hand config.
> 
> I'm a bit torn.


I had the FK1 and the FK2. I've used IE 3.0 and deathadder the most (so the full length of my ringer finger sticks to the entire right side of the mouse). The right side buttons on the FK mice never bothered me. They're quite low profile, almost unnoticeable and the buttons are stiff so I never misclicked (it's not bound to anything anyway).


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> It saddens me a bit but I think I have to give up on the ZA11, it's very comfy for me but like I said before I just can't aim as well with it. Back to the EC1-A it is.


I only had to plant seeds in your brain


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> I had the FK1 and the FK2. I've used IE 3.0 and deathadder the most (so the full length of my ringer finger sticks to the entire right side of the mouse). The right side buttons on the FK mice never bothered me. They're quite low profile, almost unnoticeable and the buttons are stiff so I never misclicked (it's not bound to anything anyway).


Good to know Bond10, thanks


----------



## Mannheimer

Could anyone please take a side by side photo of a Zowie ZA and a Xai/Sensei or Kana and post it here?
Would be really great!!!


----------



## solz

if you like the size of the WMO 1.1a, which should i pick?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> if you like the size of the WMO 1.1a, which should i pick?


12


----------



## RDno1

Did y'all see this review?:


----------



## Mannheimer

I've did it, I ordered all three mice. Going to write some impressions when I've tested them. Hopefully one of them is comparable with a Xai/Sensei.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jiisus*
> 
> lol what? I would rather take mouse which very good for fps and other mouse that is very good for moba, rather than having one semi good one for both. Yeah like you never going to see mouse which is ideal for every grip, every game, every person, every dpi, everty polling rate...


You should never ever have to switch between mice for different games.

The fact that there are mice which are only useable for certain grips/games is due to ignorance on the part of companies and buyers, as well as companies trying to milk maximum money by making people buy more and more mice.

If you had 3 different sizes of the Aurora, 99.99% of people would never need another shape. You absolutely can make a mouse that is ideal for all 3 grips. The only variance comes from hand sizes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> if you like the size of the WMO 1.1a, which should i pick?
> 
> 
> 
> 12
Click to expand...

Isn't the 11 the largest? The WMO is much larger than all the zowie mice - http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/600_50#post_23890223


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Isn't the 11 the largest? The WMO is much larger than all the zowie mice - http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/600_50#post_23890223


The ZA12 is more similar to the WMO in terms of length, height, and weight. The ZA11 is more similar in width, though. Width is the selling factor for some. The width of the ZA12 is actually one of the main things keeping me from buying it. Idk why Zowie didn't just release an FK1 that is around 5mm wider.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Isn't the 11 the largest? The WMO is much larger than all the zowie mice - http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/600_50#post_23890223


I disagree. My ZA11 feels much taller and wider than the WMO where my thumb rests. I can see why you'd think the WMO was wider from the top-down image though, as the rear of the WMO is much wider than the rear of the ZA11.


----------



## a_ak57

You know, I personally don't care if a mouse is good for everyone. And I'm actually glad some companies don't either, as my favorite shape i.e. the G9 wouldn't exist. Different mice exist to cater to different people, so I don't think it's necessary to try to get every mouse to work for every grip. Sure, it's great to have some mice that are versatile and can be used by people who switch grips often, but I just don't agree with the notion that every mouse should cater to everyone since that means some people have to settle for less in order to hit that wider audience.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The fact that there are mice which are only useable for certain grips/games is due to ignorance on the part of companies and buyers, as well as companies trying to milk maximum money by making people buy more and more mice.
> 
> If you had 3 different sizes of the Aurora, 99.99% of people would never need another shape. You absolutely can make a mouse that is ideal for all 3 grips. The only variance comes from hand sizes.


Another baseless unsubstantiated personal opinion at best post stated as fact from the one and only.

Toxic.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> You know, I personally don't care if a mouse is good for everyone. And I'm actually glad some companies don't either, as my favorite shape i.e. the G9 wouldn't exist. Different mice exist to cater to different people, so I don't think it's necessary to try to get every mouse to work for every grip. Sure, it's great to have some mice that are versatile and can be used by people who switch grips often, but I just don't agree with the notion that every mouse should cater to everyone since that means some people have to settle for less in order to hit that wider audience.


I've never used the g9, but it looks like it has a similar ambi shape, which is the main issue - a neutral ambi shape.

I don't agree that an ideal shape like the Aurora would = settling for less, for almost anyone.

I mean, I fit all the ideal criteria for a large ergonomic mouse (large hands, palm gripper & FPS gamer primarily) but I would want nothing of the sort. A mouse like that would not necessarily be more ideal than a larger Aurora shape for me in FPS games, and it would mean I can only use the mouse for certain games...

But the main issue is that there isn't a single neutral ambi shape mouse on the market that also has a top notch sensor, at least 5 buttons, no other major issues, etc.. When really, this should be the primary item most broadly available...

For example, the xai/sensei shape that gets some love is NOT a NEUTRAL ambi shape. It has certain contours that either force a claw/fingertip grip, or require your hands to fit it perfectly. Many ambi mice do the same thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> [redacted]


Toxic.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Toxic.


^^^ yes you are.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I only had to plant seeds in your brain


Haha, it seems so. I'm comfy enough with the EC1-A as well so I don't really mind it but I had such high hopes that I'm a bit bummed out, especially when I felt that the ZA11 was so frickin comfortable. I don't really mind ergo mice in general but most of them have a right side that's so slanted that it makes it hard for me to grip with my gripstyle. What I would really like to see is a shape like the EC1 but with a right side like the FK1/ZA11. IE a mouse with typical ambidextrous sides but an ergonomic top part, I think that could be heaven for me.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> But the main issue is that there isn't a single neutral ambi shape mouse on the market that also has a top notch sensor, at least 5 buttons, no other major issues, etc.. When really, this should be the primary item most broadly available...
> 
> For example, the xai/sensei shape that gets some love is NOT a NEUTRAL ambi shape. It has certain contours that either force a claw/fingertip grip, or require your hands to fit it perfectly. Many ambi mice do the same thing.


+1 on this one, I also find it a bit weird. I mean, I could probably walk into a store and find a generic desktop mouse that has a shape I would like more than 95% of the gaming mice out there. We have a bunch of old compaq mice at my workplace that I would more than likely change to if they had a good sensor and build quality.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I could probably walk into a store and find a generic desktop mouse that has a shape I would like more than 95% of the gaming mice out there.


Yep. I have done that and have definitely noticed that to be the case. Which is one of the reasons I tend to recommend that people who don't need high PCS find non-gaming mice from their local stores.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yep. I have done that and have definitely noticed that to be the case. Which is one of the reasons I tend to recommend that people who don't need high PCS find non-gaming mice from their local stores.


Because most people designing mice are non-gamers, living in their lala land, don't listen to the community and do half-arsed products and compromise on quality for profit. Everybody joins the popular hypes. Even Logitech's design team is ridiculous with their awkward decisions. This shows several things.

Point being, you can't expect to get healthy quality food from McDonalds. Same applies to mice in terms of decisionmaking. You can't expect clueless engineers to do what we want. Working with companies like you guys are doing with FM is the way to go. Giving feedback where it's due.
Maybe their next iteration will be good. I don't care about company or brand, I care about products. So should all of us.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> I disagree. My ZA11 feels much taller and wider than the WMO where my thumb rests. I can see why you'd think the WMO was wider from the top-down image though, as the rear of the WMO is much wider than the rear of the ZA11.


What about the front? I feel like the front of the WMO is quite a bit wider than the ZA11. I don't have a WMO to compare with (hmmmmm ebay here I come) seems like that mouse is a good one to have around for comparison on this board!


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I've never used the g9, but it looks like it has a similar ambi shape, which is the main issue - a neutral ambi shape.
> 
> I don't agree that an ideal shape like the Aurora would = settling for less, for almost anyone.
> 
> I mean, I fit all the ideal criteria for a large ergonomic mouse (large hands, palm gripper & FPS gamer primarily) but I would want nothing of the sort. A mouse like that would not necessarily be more ideal than a larger Aurora shape for me in FPS games, and it would mean I can only use the mouse for certain games...
> 
> But the main issue is that there isn't a single neutral ambi shape mouse on the market that also has a top notch sensor, at least 5 buttons, no other major issues, etc.. When really, this should be the primary item most broadly available...
> 
> For example, the xai/sensei shape that gets some love is NOT a NEUTRAL ambi shape. It has certain contours that either force a claw/fingertip grip, or require your hands to fit it perfectly. Many ambi mice do the same thing.


G9 is actually an ergo mouse, though it's fairly subdued in that aspect. What are you saying it's similar to, the ZA? Not really. It's a pretty unique shape, hence why it has a cult following. It's a subpar shape for most people, but for the people who like it it's considerably better than all of the "safe" shapes. I agree that it'd be nice if there was an ideal mouse to appeal to a wide audience, but you criticize basically every mouse for not being that which makes it seem like you think that indeed every mouse should be that. Just because something isn't what you want means it's incorrectly designed. You should be asking for a different mouse to scratch that itch, not asking for other mice to be something different.

And I question your concept of a "neutral" mouse. Grips are too varied to really say anything is "neutral." You seem to be fond of the Aurora shape and simply want a bigger one, meanwhile I don't really care for the the shape and a bigger one is even more unappealing. Again, I'd agree it'd be nice if there was something like that for you, but I don't agree with the notion that it'd actually be a good choice for everyone. You really can't make a mouse that appeals to G9 users and Naos users on an equal level. One of them is getting a lesser experience, or possibly both. I think what you consider a neutral mouse is not really a neutral mouse but something simply in the middle of the grip spectrum, but that doesn't actually make it something everyone would like. Basically like how cherry brown mechanical switches are in the middle of blue and red, but there are a sizable number of people who don't particularly care for them and would just rather have red or blue.


----------



## thedogman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You should never ever have to switch between mice for different games.
> 
> The fact that there are mice which are only useable for certain grips/games is due to ignorance on the part of companies and buyers, as well as companies trying to milk maximum money by making people buy more and more mice.
> 
> If you had 3 different sizes of the Aurora, 99.99% of people would never need another shape. You absolutely can make a mouse that is ideal for all 3 grips. The only variance comes from hand sizes.
> Isn't the 11 the largest? The WMO is much larger than all the zowie mice - http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/600_50#post_23890223


A wider and taller aurora would be the perfect shape.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Because most people designing mice are non-gamers, living in their lala land, don't listen to the community and do half-arsed products and compromise on quality for profit. Everybody joins the popular hypes. Even Logitech's design team is ridiculous with their awkward decisions. This shows several things.
> 
> Point being, you can't expect to get healthy quality food from McDonalds. Same applies to mice in terms of decisionmaking. You can't expect clueless engineers to do what we want. Working with companies like you guys are doing with FM is the way to go. Giving feedback where it's due.
> Maybe their next iteration will be good. I don't care about company or brand, I care about products. So should all of us.


Yeah, definitely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> G9 is actually an ergo mouse, though it's fairly subdued in that aspect. What are you saying it's similar to, the ZA? Not really. It's a pretty unique shape, hence why it has a cult following. It's a subpar shape for most people, but for the people who like it it's considerably better than all of the "safe" shapes. I agree that it'd be nice if there was an ideal mouse to appeal to a wide audience, but you criticize basically every mouse for not being that which makes it seem like you think that indeed every mouse should be that. Just because something isn't what you want means it's incorrectly designed. You should be asking for a different mouse to scratch that itch, not asking for other mice to be something different.
> 
> And I question your concept of a "neutral" mouse. Grips are too varied to really say anything is "neutral." You seem to be fond of the Aurora shape and simply want a bigger one, meanwhile I don't really care for the the shape and a bigger one is even more unappealing. Again, I'd agree it'd be nice if there was something like that for you, but I don't agree with the notion that it'd actually be a good choice for everyone. You really can't make a mouse that appeals to G9 users and Naos users on an equal level. One of them is getting a lesser experience, or possibly both. I think what you consider a neutral mouse is not really a neutral mouse but something simply in the middle of the grip spectrum, but that doesn't actually make it something everyone would like. Basically like how cherry brown mechanical switches are in the middle of blue and red, but there are a sizable number of people who don't particularly care for them and would just rather have red or blue.


I was comparing the g9 to the Aurora. The g9 looks like it has a pretty ambi shape (ignoring the ledge under the thumb side) and doesn't have any strange contours on the sides, so essentially it should be very close to what makes the Aurora good.

Mmm... regarding other mice, I criticize them for what they are because I don't see a good reason for them to be the way they are. Like I said, I think it's half ignorance and half companies trying to sell more mice. I've used a ton of mice in many different kinds of games, and in every type of grip.

My "gaming" requires all 3 grips depending what game I'm playing. So when I come across >90% of mice that are not useable in all 3 grips, then they're a completely useless "gaming" mouse for me. In my reviews though, I talk about specific details. I have also been asking for a different mouse both on forums and direct messages to the companies, but it looks like FinalMouse is the only company willing to make such a mouse.

>_You seem to be fond of the Aurora shape and simply want a bigger one, meanwhile I don't really care for the the shape and a bigger one is even more unappealing._

Could you go into more detail with this? I've been asking everyone since the Aurora came out, trying to see if there was anyone who disliked the shape, and you're the first person. How big are your hands and what grips do you use and what games do you play? EDIT: also, have you used the FK1?

Ehh.. I don't think mouse shape is comparable to keyboard switches.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah, definitely.


I think part of the reason companies don't make a mouse usable in all three grips with a sensor on par with the MLT 04 is also partly because of the majority of reviewers. I'd see g100s reviews and somebody would say it isn't worth the money because microcenter had a mouse with more buttons for like $15 or something. He played on like 5cm/360, as well. A lot of reviewers don't know what really makes a good FPS mouse, IMO. It's just good there is people like you who do reviews compared to the IE 3.0


----------



## MaximilianKohler

lol, that's what I mean by "ignorance". The vast majority of casual gamers, and even a very large percentage of competitive gamers, have no idea what they're doing. It takes a lot of time, research, reading, and testing.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> lol, that's what I mean by "ignorance". The vast majority of casual gamers, and even a very large percentage of competitive gamers, have no idea what they're doing. It takes a lot of time, research, reading, and testing.


I've even seen a Zowie AM review (3090) where the person said it felt much more precise than the WMO.


----------



## bond10

Max,

What do you think of the EC2-A?


----------



## Atavax

i dislike the shape of the aurora as well. Large hand, short fingers. I use a claw grip. The side button is in a position where it could easily be misclicked, the ridge on the both sides where the bottom half meets the top half gets in the way, the back is too low, it doesn't fit in my palm securely.


----------



## bullshtvacuum

I just had to make an account to publicly laugh at this.

There are indeed people clueless about mice but to read someone say that while, based on NO DATA, claims that 3 sizes of Aurora is good for everyone is a laugh out loud moment.

Max please stop talking on behalf of me and others. Aurora might be perfect for you, it might be perfect for 50 people but it is definitely not perfect for everyone.

The idea to have a "neutral" shape that fits everyone's needs is also stupid. As someone mentioned in a previous post, you would have to make compromises. There is no point for someone that prefers palm grip to compromise in order to have a mouse that works for claw/palm/fingertip grip, why would he?

Having a singular shape that is "somewhat" good for all three grips would be good for companies, as they wouldn't need to stock too many SKUs but, for users, it'd be a nightmare. Noone would be completely satisfied with a shape that has compromises in order to cater to all grips.

And don't say "there wouldn't have to be compromises" because surely there would be. And that "perfect mouse for every grip" would certainly not be an Aurora either.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bullshtvacuum*
> 
> I just had to make an account to publicly laugh at this.
> 
> There are indeed people clueless about mice but to read someone say that while, based on NO DATA, claims that 3 sizes of Aurora is good for everyone is a laugh out loud moment.
> 
> Max please stop talking on behalf of me and others. Aurora might be perfect for you, it might be perfect for 50 people but it is definitely not perfect for everyone.
> 
> The idea to have a "neutral" shape that fits everyone's needs is also stupid. As someone mentioned in a previous post, you would have to make compromises. There is no point for someone that prefers palm grip to compromise in order to have a mouse that works for claw/palm/fingertip grip, why would he?
> 
> Having a singular shape that is "somewhat" good for all three grips would be good for companies, as they wouldn't need to stock too many SKUs but, for users, it'd be a nightmare. Noone would be completely satisfied with a shape that has compromises in order to cater to all grips.
> 
> And don't say "there wouldn't have to be compromises" because surely there would be. And that "perfect mouse for every grip" would certainly not be an Aurora either.


.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I was comparing the g9 to the Aurora. The g9 looks like it has a pretty ambi shape (ignoring the ledge under the thumb side) and doesn't have any strange contours on the sides, so essentially it should be very close to what makes the Aurora good.


Ah. They're not very similar IMO. The G9 is fairly wide and has a wide, stubby butt while the aurora has a pointy, more traditionally sloped butt. I think this might be one of the reasons we don't really agree. If you think the G9 is similar to the Aurora, then you look at shape in a different way than I do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Could you go into more detail with this? I've been asking everyone since the Aurora came out, trying to see if there was anyone who disliked the shape, and you're the first person. How big are your hands and what grips do you use and what games do you play? EDIT: also, have you used the FK1?
> 
> Ehh.. I don't think mouse shape is comparable to keyboard switches.


I don't dislike the Aurora shape, I just don't particularly like it. I can use it without discomfort or whatever, it's just that if a mouse was announced to use that shape I wouldn't care. The reason I don't care for it is basically what I mentioned up above, i.e. the butt. I don't particularly like the traditional terminating curve of mouse butts, and I don't like pointy ones. I like something that is rather wide and basically "cut off" before it actually completes the arc. As for hand size, I measured it a while back and I think it was like 18 or 19cm, which from what I recall is around average. I just use a rather pronounced claw grip so I like shorter mice, and I like having a wide back-end basically dug into my palm. The Aurora makes me use more of a fingertip grip, or I guess more accurately, less of a claw than I prefer.


----------



## ramraze

I haven't tried the aurora but the look of the mouse is so off putting I won't even try it. It looks so small, narrow and like it lacks quality







Nuff said


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> What about the front? I feel like the front of the WMO is quite a bit wider than the ZA11. I don't have a WMO to compare with (hmmmmm ebay here I come) seems like that mouse is a good one to have around for comparison on this board!


The front feels just a bit wider to me, personally. It's really hard to tell from the images I took, but the WMO kind of contours inwards once you get past the rear.

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2010/76206-PCAC385-2.jpg

http://www.zowiegear.dk/images/ZO075-4-p.jpg

See how the ZA11 is a little bit straighter at the front where the thumb rests? I think that contributes a lot to it feeling wider in my hand.


----------



## keita

Which mouse would you guys suggest instead of the intelli 1.1, the ZA 11 or 12?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keita*
> 
> Which mouse would you guys suggest instead of the intelli 1.1, the ZA 11 or 12?


The 12 is the sweet spot of the three.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keita*
> 
> Which mouse would you guys suggest instead of the intelli 1.1, the ZA 11 or 12?


Kana v2 or evga x5. Or wait for castor







Or roccat savu.


----------



## keita

Out of the ZA 11 and 12 which would u says the closest?


----------



## m1hka

Kana is not close at all to Intellimouse 1.1.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> Kana is not close at all to Intellimouse 1.1.


Very true.


----------



## ramraze

Who cares. Za is too narrow







Really not recommended, depending on gripstyle and game. If you are 20-30 cm and clawgrip playing csgo then go for za12.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Who cares. Za is too narrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really not recommended, depending on gripstyle and game. If you are 20-30 cm and clawgrip playing csgo then go for za12.


You can alway add some width...


----------



## keita

You think it wont be to small if i'm used to the intelli 1.1 shape?


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can alway add some width...


This!

I need to mod out a pinky rest!


----------



## auzcar

I know I must start to sound like an indecisive, rambling maniac but I ended what I thought would be my last CSGO session with the ZA11 just a minute ago and I'm still not sure to be honest. AWPing works as good as ever, even better than the EC1 and the first shot with the rifles work as well as the EC1 as well, it's actually the recoil control that I'm struggling with. Also when doing online aim tests/games like aimbooster I perform a lot better with the ZA11 compared to the EC1, just as I do with the FK1. Still when I get back into the game I feel like I perform better with the EC1... I don't know if it's my mind playing with me but now I'm really not sure how to choose which one to go with or even how to test which one works the best.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bullshtvacuum*
> 
> I just had to make an account to publicly laugh at this.
> And don't say "there wouldn't have to be compromises" because surely there would be. And that "perfect mouse for every grip" would certainly not be an Aurora either.


All Max is saying is that If somebody uses one grip in every game that they play, then that's fine. They don't need a shape to cater to all three grips. If somebody uses all three grips for different things, then there is no reason for them to own three different mice to serve that purpose when they can have one that works in all three just fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I know I must start to sound like an indecisive, rambling maniac but I ended what I thought would be my last CSGO session with the ZA11 just a minute ago and I'm still not sure to be honest. AWPing works as good as ever, even better than the EC1 and the first shot with the rifles work as well as the EC1 as well, it's actually the recoil control that I'm struggling with. Also when doing online aim tests/games like aimbooster I perform a lot better with the ZA11 compared to the EC1, just as I do with the FK1. Still when I get back into the game I feel like I perform better with the EC1... I don't know if it's my mind playing with me but now I'm really not sure how to choose which one to go with or even how to test which one works the best.


Probably just used to the EC1 shape


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I know I must start to sound like an indecisive, rambling maniac but I ended what I thought would be my last CSGO session with the ZA11 just a minute ago and I'm still not sure to be honest. AWPing works as good as ever, even better than the EC1 and the first shot with the rifles work as well as the EC1 as well, it's actually the recoil control that I'm struggling with. Also when doing online aim tests/games like aimbooster I perform a lot better with the ZA11 compared to the EC1, just as I do with the FK1. Still when I get back into the game I feel like I perform better with the EC1... I don't know if it's my mind playing with me but now I'm really not sure how to choose which one to go with or even how to test which one works the best.


You should use the ZA11. Recoil control will come through time.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can alway add some width...


That actually looks pretty comfortable!


----------



## Melan

And it looks pretty good too, which is also important.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Ordered the ZA12. Will it be the surprise of the century for me? We will see. I'll give input on this mouse and compare it with my WMO


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Ordered the ZA12. Will it be the surprise of the century for me? We will see. I'll give input on this mouse and compare it with my WMO


I'm interested in what you think.









I'm still liking the ZA13 but second guess if the ZA12 would be better fit. My hands are 18cm mainly hybrid claw grip but prefer smaller mice. I like ZA13 as much as my savu. The shell middle being a bit narrow than I'd prefer but I still have control. Can place pinkie finger on back end of the side molding where it stops to concave.

Unfortunately, we don't find Zowie products on display in the US like Fry's Electronics for me to put my hands out and test.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I'm interested in what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still liking the ZA13 but second guess if the ZA12 would be better fit. My hands are 18cm mainly hybrid claw grip but prefer smaller mice. I like ZA13 as much as my savu. The shell middle being a bit narrow than I'd prefer but I still have control. Can place pinkie finger on back end of the side molding where it stops to concave.
> 
> Unfortunately, we don't find Zowie products on display in the US like Fry's Electronics for me to put my hands out and test.


Right, we find logitech and razer mice with flashy LEDs lol.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Right, we find logitech and razer mice with flashy LEDs lol.










I see you've been in one.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Unfortunately, we don't find Zowie products on display in the US like Fry's Electronics for me to put my hands out and test.


I wish they did have them hell. Lol would be nice. They have Mionix & Roccat products.


----------



## el gappo

ZA-12 officially on pre-order with ocuk. No idea when they get stock in, hopefully soon.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo*
> 
> ZA-12 officially on pre-order with ocuk. No idea when they get stock in, hopefully soon.


Kustom PCS already have them in if you can't wait.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Max,
> 
> What do you think of the EC2-A?


I don't like that shape. It's a palm/claw grip only shape, and it gives no grip in the palm area to lift the mouse. It also requires your hand to fit the mouse perfectly. I use the 3.0 for the sensor only.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i dislike the shape of the aurora as well. Large hand, short fingers. I use a claw grip. The side button is in a position where it could easily be misclicked, the ridge on the both sides where the bottom half meets the top half gets in the way, the back is too low, it doesn't fit in my palm securely.


Button placement is a separate issue. Are you talking about the ridge on the far sides of the two main buttons? Like on the top of the mouse near where your ring finger would go in palm grip? Because I don't see how the groove where the top shell meets the bottom shell would "get in the way" unless you got a defective one. Ino mentioned something similar that seemed to be due to quality control.

Other than that your issue seems like it would be fixed via a larger size. What mouse shape is ideal for you?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bullshtvacuum*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I just had to make an account to publicly laugh at this.
> 
> There are indeed people clueless about mice but to read someone say that while, based on NO DATA, claims that 3 sizes of Aurora is good for everyone is a laugh out loud moment.
> 
> Max please stop talking on behalf of me and others. Aurora might be perfect for you, it might be perfect for 50 people but it is definitely not perfect for everyone.
> 
> The idea to have a "neutral" shape that fits everyone's needs is also stupid. As someone mentioned in a previous post, you would have to make compromises. There is no point for someone that prefers palm grip to compromise in order to have a mouse that works for claw/palm/fingertip grip, why would he?
> 
> Having a singular shape that is "somewhat" good for all three grips would be good for companies, as they wouldn't need to stock too many SKUs but, for users, it'd be a nightmare. Noone would be completely satisfied with a shape that has compromises in order to cater to all grips.
> 
> And don't say "there wouldn't have to be compromises" because surely there would be. And that "perfect mouse for every grip" would certainly not be an Aurora either.


What kind of data would you expect when it comes to mice shapes? I'm pretty sure Logitech does the most "data collection" in regards to mice shapes and look what they've put out recently: the 303 shape which is one of the most criticized/ridiculed shapes I've seen. The 502 shape which was thinner than the mx518, and people complained about the thinness causing cramps, so what do they do? They release an even thinner 402.

My "data" would be 10+ years of *a lot* of personal testing & research, as well as the experiences and feedback of others. But obviously I'm always open to being wrong.

What you're lambasting me for is very similar to your own statement of "The idea to have a "neutral" shape that fits everyone's needs is also stupid".

Though I think much of yours and others criticism _(including your line of "And don't say 'there wouldn't have to be compromises' because surely there would be")_ comes from a misunderstanding of what I'm trying to say. Which I'll expound on further down in reply to ak57.

>_There is no point for someone that prefers palm grip to compromise in order to have a mouse that works for claw/palm/fingertip grip, why would he?_

As I've stated before, palm grip is my primary grip. There is no compromise happening. Palm grip only mice, or any ergo mouse that's designed especially for palm grip not only does not give me any benefits over something like a larger aurora or wider FK1, but it's WORSE. For a variety of reasons, one of which is that those kinds of mice tend to have a much much slimmer margin of error for what hand size/shape can be used with it. They are much more restrictive in terms of personal grip adjustments and variances from person to person. Etc., etc...

As someone pointed out in another thread, people rate ergo mice highly in surveys because they are low information/experience users. "Ergonomic" sound good. In practice it has many more flaws than ambi mice though.

Companies are benefiting massively from having people buy each new mouse they release. There are plenty of people with 3-5 different mice all from the same company... It's a cash cow...

>_And that "perfect mouse for every grip" would certainly not be an Aurora either._

What are you basing that on?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. They're not very similar IMO. The G9 is fairly wide and has a wide, stubby butt while the aurora has a pointy, more traditionally sloped butt. I think this might be one of the reasons we don't really agree. If you think the G9 is similar to the Aurora, then you look at shape in a different way than I do.
> I don't dislike the Aurora shape, I just don't particularly like it. I can use it without discomfort or whatever, it's just that if a mouse was announced to use that shape I wouldn't care. The reason I don't care for it is basically what I mentioned up above, i.e. the butt. I don't particularly like the traditional terminating curve of mouse butts, and I don't like pointy ones. I like something that is rather wide and basically "cut off" before it actually completes the arc. As for hand size, I measured it a while back and I think it was like 18 or 19cm, which from what I recall is around average. I just use a rather pronounced claw grip so I like shorter mice, and I like having a wide back-end basically dug into my palm. The Aurora makes me use more of a fingertip grip, or I guess more accurately, less of a claw than I prefer.


See the things you guys are pointing out are what I would consider very minor issues that come down to personal preference, and are generally the types of variances we'd still see in a market where >90% of mice were ambidextrous Aurora-like mice.

What I am trying to point out are specific contours on the sides of ambi mice like the xai, avior7k, etc., that force certain grips or hand sizes _(*EDIT*: as well as the fact that ergo mice tend to force/prevent certain grips much more than a well designed ambi would)_. Even to use the FK1 as an example - the general shape of this mouse is very good, but the fact that it gets so much thinner in the middle part causes people to squeeze their hands tighter in the middle as compared to the rear, that it causes cramps. That's why I stopped saying "larger aurora or wider fk1" and just say "larger aurora". Because the Aurora has straight sides that don't cause the same problems as the FK1. Though the FK1 still has other differences that I would call more minor. But if it fixed that one issue it would still be as different to the Aurora as the g9 is, yet at that point it might even have a better overall shape than the Aurora. But again the differences at that point are mostly more minor (IE: they don't outright prevent you from using the mouse, you might just prefer the specific differences of the g9 or aurora, etc.).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I haven't tried the aurora but the look of the mouse is so off putting I won't even try it. It looks so small, narrow and like it lacks quality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nuff said


That's not really relevant for the facts that you haven't tried it, and that I've agreed it's too small. And build quality is irrelevant when we're talking about shape.


----------



## auzcar

How does the Aurora feel in terms of size compared to the FK1?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> I know I must start to sound like an indecisive, rambling maniac but I ended what I thought would be my last CSGO session with the ZA11 just a minute ago and I'm still not sure to be honest. AWPing works as good as ever, even better than the EC1 and the first shot with the rifles work as well as the EC1 as well, it's actually the recoil control that I'm struggling with. Also when doing online aim tests/games like aimbooster I perform a lot better with the ZA11 compared to the EC1, just as I do with the FK1. Still when I get back into the game I feel like I perform better with the EC1... I don't know if it's my mind playing with me but now I'm really not sure how to choose which one to go with or even how to test which one works the best.


Yeah, that's just because it's lighter. Awm shots feel better because of slightly less pre-travel. Lighter mice make it easier to do flicks, wider and higher mice give more control.







You can get used to both, though. At the end of the day it's your feeling that matters. In this case, I prefer slightly more control over speed in terms of my mouse.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Yeah, that's just because it's lighter. Awm shots feel better because of slightly less pre-travel. Lighter mice make it easier to do flicks, wider and higher mice give more control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can get used to both, though. At the end of the day it's your feeling that matters. In this case, I prefer slightly more control over speed in terms of my mouse.


Yeah it might be the weight. I just need to give it more time I guess, no need to rush really.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> Yeah it might be the weight. I just need to give it more time I guess, no need to rush really.


I just got back to the EC1-A. The shape feels great, but I'm not yet sure about the right side either. Also, the coating will give stick only when you're in intense gaming sessions or when you actually hold your hand exactly the same way for 30 min







The right side is hard to lift.
Not sure which gives more grip on the sides, old or new coating.


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I just got back to the EC1-A. The shape feels great, but I'm not yet sure about the right side either. Also, the coating will give stick only when you're in intense gaming sessions or when you actually hold your hand exactly the same way for 30 min
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right side is hard to lift.
> Not sure which gives more grip on the sides, old or new coating.


For me the coating on the EC1-A is the worst of the black Zowie mice, or perhaps I should say least good as I still like it. The coating on the ZA is the best one I've tried for my hands. My hands start to sweat really easy, even if they're cold as hell, so I like the more granular, rough and matte coatings better.

Yeah the right side is much easier to grip on the ZA. I think that the steeper "slope" from the hump to the front on the ZA is throwing me off as well, as I feel I pull down the crosshair too fast and overcompensate a bit for the recoil.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> For me the coating on the EC1-A is the worst of the black Zowie mice, or perhaps I should say least good as I still like it. The coating on the ZA is the best one I've tried for my hands. My hands start to sweat really easy, even if they're cold as hell, so I like the more granular, rough and matte coatings better.
> 
> Yeah the right side is much easier to grip on the ZA. I think that the steeper "slope" from the hump to the front on the ZA is throwing me off as well, as I feel I pull down the crosshair too fast and overcompensate a bit for the recoil.


I have the exact same hands. I like the ZA coating more, but the old rubberized was quite good. I could swap shells, but I don't know which was better (need to buy it off a friend for cheaper)


----------



## auzcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I have the exact same hands. I like the ZA coating more, but I the old rubberized was quite good. I could swap shells, but I don't know which was better (need to buy it off a friend for cheaper)


Yeah I loved the old rubberized coating as well. I think Zowie have had very good coatings on all of their mice, but that's of course personal preference.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I have the exact same hands. I like the ZA coating more, but the old rubberized was quite good. I could swap shells, but I don't know which was better (need to buy it off a friend for cheaper)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> Yeah I loved the old rubberized coating as well. I think Zowie have had very good coatings on all of their mice, but that's of course personal preference.


By exact same hands do you guys mean just the hand size? If it's not a problem, could you tell me your hand size? I'm looking to buy the ZA11 or ec1-a and it's really hard to decide what to do, my hand is like 19cm. Fk1 seemed really thin to me and not very comfortable. I have some sort of palm and claw hybrid where my palm doesn't fully rest on the mouse


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> By exact same hands do you guys mean just the hand size? If it's not a problem, could you tell me your hand size? I'm looking to buy the ZA11 or ec1-a and it's really hard to decide what to do, my hand is like 19cm. Fk1 seemed really thin to me and not very comfortable


I meant the sweating part. I'm like 19 cm as well. But my thumb/pinky reach is probably on the wider side.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> See the things you guys are pointing out are what I would consider very minor issues that come down to personal preference, and are generally the types of variances we'd still see in a market where >90% of mice were ambidextrous Aurora-like mice.
> 
> What I am trying to point out are specific contours on the sides of ambi mice like the xai, avior7k, etc., that force certain grips or hand sizes _(*EDIT*: as well as the fact that ergo mice tend to force/prevent certain grips much more than a well designed ambi would)_. Even to use the FK1 as an example - the general shape of this mouse is very good, but the fact that it gets so much thinner in the middle part causes people to squeeze their hands tighter in the middle as compared to the rear, that it causes cramps. That's why I stopped saying "larger aurora or wider fk1" and just say "larger aurora". Because the Aurora has straight sides that don't cause the same problems as the FK1. Though the FK1 still has other differences that I would call more minor. But if it fixed that one issue it would still be as different to the Aurora as the g9 is, yet at that point it might even have a better overall shape than the Aurora. But again the differences at that point are mostly more minor (IE: they don't outright prevent you from using the mouse, you might just prefer the specific differences of the g9 or aurora, etc.).


That would explain our differences in thoughts about shape then, as what you consider minor I consider major and what you consider major I consider minor. If wanting mice to be more aurora-like just means you want straight sides then I'd be fine with that, since I don't care about sides very much other than in the sense of how much width it provides where I grip (basically only the tips of my thumb/ring finger are on the mouse so the side's shape doesn't matter very much to me). I use the precision grip of the G9, which has a groove for the thumb. If they made that completely flat I wouldn't care at all, but from what it sounds like that would change things rather significantly for you. Meanwhile from what it sounds like if that theoretical larger aurora had a more G9-like butt you wouldn't really care, but that'd be a huge deal to me.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auzcar*
> 
> How does the Aurora feel in terms of size compared to the FK1?


For me the Aurora gave less hand cramping even though the Aurora is ~60mm wide in every part, whereas the FK1 gets wider (~65mm) towards the back.

I think the reason for this is that the straightness of the Aurora's sides don't make you squeeze the middle and front of your hand tighter like the FK1 does. The hand in a relaxed position does not get wider in the back. So that design might be geared towards a specific grip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> That would explain our differences in thoughts about shape then, as what you consider minor I consider major and what you consider major I consider minor. If wanting mice to be more aurora-like just means you want straight sides then I'd be fine with that, since I don't care about sides very much other than in the sense of how much width it provides where I grip (basically only the tips of my thumb/ring finger are on the mouse so the side's shape doesn't matter very much to me). I use the precision grip of the G9, which has a groove for the thumb. If they made that completely flat I wouldn't care at all, but from what it sounds like that would change things rather significantly for you. Meanwhile from what it sounds like if that theoretical larger aurora had a more G9-like butt you wouldn't really care, but that'd be a huge deal to me.


Yeah, an ambi design with straight sides. Personally I don't think I've ever had a mouse reach back into my palm because of the size of my hands, so I haven't developed any opinions/preferences in that area.

The thumb side is less important. The most important thing on that side is the ability to press the side buttons without letting go of your grip on the mouse. For example, the FM's thumb groove area hinders this.


----------



## AnimalK

When the announced the measurements I was decided I was going to get a ZA11.

Now that many of you have shared your experiences, I can't pick between a ZA11 and a ZA12.

I have 18cm hands. I love the Sensei shape but I also love my EC2-A and FK1 very much.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> When the announced the measurements I was decided I was going to get a ZA11.
> 
> Now that many of you have shared your experiences, I can't pick between a ZA11 and a ZA12.
> 
> I have 18cm hands. I love the Sensei shape but I also love my EC2-A and FK1 very much.


Someone here has mentioned that the ZA12 is actually closer to the FK1 and the ZA11 is just too big. Ino in his thread said the ZA11 feels similar to his FK1.


----------



## H4rd5tyl3

Which one is the Sensei [RAW] closest to? Need to replace this junk mouse, gone through 2 of them that both had the scroll wheel problem...


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4rd5tyl3*
> 
> Which one is the Sensei [RAW] closest to? Need to replace this junk mouse, gone through 2 of them that both had the scroll wheel problem...


I believe (don't have a Sensei to compare to) that the ZA11 is closest size wise.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Kustom PCS already have them in if you can't wait.


It arrived today with my new monitor.









Really liking it so far. Didn't take long to adjust, the deathadder I couldn't get into but this was love at first sight!


----------



## Steele84

Nice, I'm in a toss up right now between the ZA-11 or the Roccat kone xdt. I think it's going to come down to long term comfort, my skill in FPS is about the same, I feel like I have equal control and I generally like both mice. My first impressions were bad for both, but I noticed that I was worrying to much about forcing a grip and not the game, after a few hours my hand naturally found it's hold and it was all rainbows and lollypops after that! Enjoy!


----------



## Mannheimer

My Zowie Mice arrived today and I've tested each of them a few of hours.
Coming original from a SS Xai und playing the Kana V2 for about 2 Weeks these are my opinions about the ZA series

*Zowie ZA11*
Way to big for my 18.5cm long hands. The mouse is so high in the rear that my heel of the hand is in the air and not on the mousepad. I need so hold it far back to get my hand down. Very uncomfortable for me. The mousewheel is a bit wobbly and it is a lot harder to scroll than on the Kana V2. Nevertheless scrolling is precise.

*Zowie ZA12*
I thought this would be my mice to go. Looking at the measurements given by Zowie this should really close the gap between a SS Xai and my Kana V2. I was wrong cause the ZA12 feels bigger than the Xai and playing it for 1 hour my hand started to seize. The back of the mouse really pushs in my palm in an uncomfortable way.

*Zowie ZA13*
I didn't thought that the smallest modell of thhe ZA series would fit me best but I liked the shape the most. The higher back of the mouse fills out my palm very comfortable. Even the mouse is very narrow my precision with it is really got. The Kana V2 in comparison feels a lot more flatter and wider. Switching between the ZA13 and Kana V2 the Zowie feels a lot more natural.
But the Mousewheel is a shame! Is is unprecise like hell and has sometimes a leg of about half a second. Sometimes the scrolling wasn recognized and only after I moved the mouse the scrollwheelaction was transmitted. That accours in a lot of misswitches in CS:GO which is an absolute no go!

*Generall to Zowie ZA-Series*
The coating ist not what I am used to, after 15 minutes of play I started seeing my fingerprints. Never had that an the Steelseries Mice before.
The clicks are a little bit stiffer but I kinda like it. I was impressed by the very smoth cable all ZA mice came with. It wasn't as stiff as I thought it would be. Even if I became a fan of corded cable over the years a really like the Zowie cable.
It is like someone said before: They made three bad shapes instead of one good one.

I know that the problems on the ZA13 aren't normal but the quality of all three mice wasn't good. Each mouse has at least one dealbreaker which really pisses me off.

I will give the ZA13 shape a chance and going to play it for the next 2 days. If I really really like it I will order an replancement otherwise all three mice are going back

After testing the SS Rival, SS Kana V2 and the Zowie ZA Series I am not shure if there is a mouse which fits my preferences...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mannheimer*
> 
> 
> 
> My Zowie Mice arrived today and I've tested each of them a few of hours.
> Coming original from a SS Xai und playing the Kana V2 for about 2 Weeks these are my opinions about the ZA series
> 
> *Zowie ZA11*
> Way to big for my 18.5cm long hands. The mouse is so high in the rear that my heel of the hand is in the air and not on the mousepad. I need so hold it far back to get my hand down. Very uncomfortable for me. The mousewheel is a bit wobbly and it is a lot harder to scroll than on the Kana V2. Nevertheless scrolling is precise.
> 
> *Zowie ZA12*
> I thought this would be my mice to go. Looking at the measurements given by Zowie this should really close the gap between a SS Xai and my Kana V2. I was wrong cause the ZA12 feels bigger than the Xai and playing it for 1 hour my hand started to seize. The back of the mouse really pushs in my palm in an uncomfortable way.
> 
> *Zowie ZA13*
> I didn't thought that the smallest modell of thhe ZA series would fit me best but I liked the shape the most. The higher back of the mouse fills out my palm very comfortable. Even the mouse is very narrow my precision with it is really got. The Kana V2 in comparison feels a lot more flatter and wider. Switching between the ZA13 and Kana V2 the Zowie feels a lot more natural.
> But the Mousewheel is a shame! Is is unprecise like hell and has sometimes a leg of about half a second. Sometimes the scrolling wasn recognized and only after I moved the mouse the scrollwheelaction was transmitted. That accours in a lot of misswitches in CS:GO which is an absolute no go!
> 
> *Generall to Zowie ZA-Series*
> The coating ist not what I am used to, after 15 minutes of play I started seeing my fingerprints. Never had that an the Steelseries Mice before.
> The clicks are a little bit stiffer but I kinda like it. I was impressed by the very smoth cable all ZA mice came with. It wasn't as stiff as I thought it would be. Even if I became a fan of corded cable over the years a really like the Zowie cable.
> It is like someone said before: They made three bad shapes instead of one good one.
> 
> I know that the problems on the ZA13 aren't normal but the quality of all three mice wasn't good. Each mouse has at least one dealbreaker which really pisses me off.
> 
> I will give the ZA13 shape a chance and going to play it for the next 2 days. If I really really like it I will order an replancement otherwise all three mice are going back
> 
> After testing the SS Rival, SS Kana V2 and the Zowie ZA Series I am not shure if there is a mouse which fits my preferences...


Fixing zowie wheels is pretty easy. Just open the mouse and make sure the axle is pushed in all the way into the wheel. That will move the spur closer to the encoder. EC1-A had the same issue and I haven't missed a scroll since then.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> Nice, I'm in a toss up right now between the ZA-11 or the Roccat kone xdt. I think it's going to come down to long term comfort, my skill in FPS is about the same, I feel like I have equal control and I generally like both mice. My first impressions were bad for both, but I noticed that I was worrying to much about forcing a grip and not the game, after a few hours my hand naturally found it's hold and it was all rainbows and lollypops after that! Enjoy!


Tough choice. Nice to see you like the xtd optical though.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mannheimer*
> 
> 
> 
> My Zowie Mice arrived today and I've tested each of them a few of hours.
> Coming original from a SS Xai und playing the Kana V2 for about 2 Weeks these are my opinions about the ZA series
> 
> *Zowie ZA11*
> Way to big for my 18.5cm long hands. The mouse is so high in the rear that my heel of the hand is in the air and not on the mousepad. I need so hold it far back to get my hand down. Very uncomfortable for me. The mousewheel is a bit wobbly and it is a lot harder to scroll than on the Kana V2. Nevertheless scrolling is precise.
> 
> *Zowie ZA12*
> I thought this would be my mice to go. Looking at the measurements given by Zowie this should really close the gap between a SS Xai and my Kana V2. I was wrong cause the ZA12 feels bigger than the Xai and playing it for 1 hour my hand started to seize. The back of the mouse really pushs in my palm in an uncomfortable way.
> 
> *Zowie ZA13*
> I didn't thought that the smallest modell of thhe ZA series would fit me best but I liked the shape the most. The higher back of the mouse fills out my palm very comfortable. Even the mouse is very narrow my precision with it is really got. The Kana V2 in comparison feels a lot more flatter and wider. Switching between the ZA13 and Kana V2 the Zowie feels a lot more natural.
> But the Mousewheel is a shame! Is is unprecise like hell and has sometimes a leg of about half a second. Sometimes the scrolling wasn recognized and only after I moved the mouse the scrollwheelaction was transmitted. That accours in a lot of misswitches in CS:GO which is an absolute no go!
> 
> *Generall to Zowie ZA-Series*
> The coating ist not what I am used to, after 15 minutes of play I started seeing my fingerprints. Never had that an the Steelseries Mice before.
> The clicks are a little bit stiffer but I kinda like it. I was impressed by the very smoth cable all ZA mice came with. It wasn't as stiff as I thought it would be. Even if I became a fan of corded cable over the years a really like the Zowie cable.
> It is like someone said before: They made three bad shapes instead of one good one.
> 
> I know that the problems on the ZA13 aren't normal but the quality of all three mice wasn't good. Each mouse has at least one dealbreaker which really pisses me off.
> 
> I will give the ZA13 shape a chance and going to play it for the next 2 days. If I really really like it I will order an replancement otherwise all three mice are going back
> 
> After testing the SS Rival, SS Kana V2 and the Zowie ZA Series I am not shure if there is a mouse which fits my preferences...


If you don't mind clicks that are a bit stiff, then try a FK1.


----------



## ramraze

Like I said







People are confirming my conclusions. Sadly tho.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Good evening all you fine gentlemen and gentlewomen! I come before you today to make a simple request! There is a way that we can *see* the performance of your mouse, and this is often more helpful than just getting opinions from people of unknown qualifications. It is not a difficult task and should take no longer than 5 standard minutes of your time! Much quicker and easier than taking and uploading the photos of your mice that many of you have graced us with!

The directions are thus:

1. Click on the main "Mouse" section on this forum.
2. Look at the very top where there are stickied posts!
3. Click on "Microe's MouseTester Software".
4. Click on the link provided in the *O*riginal *P*ost to download the program!
5. Open the program after it downloads!
6. Follow the directions that blessed Lord Microe has provided us in the very same thread only a single post down!
7. Here is sweet, kind Ino providing us with an example of roughly what your graph should look like: http://www.overclock.net/t/1554361
8. Upload the graph here so we can all see it and drool over it _(because you are such a good graph taker!!! Wow, your graph looks so nice!)_.
9. Let us know 3 things: 1) What your operating system is. 2) If the mouse is on 500 or 1000hz. 3) If you've previously manually installed KB2908279 on win 8.1 _(you would know if you did)_. 4) Your Windows power plan, c-states on/off in BIOS. If you're unsure for any of these, just type "unsure"!! Oops, did I say 3?
10. Visit reddit.com/r/aww to reward yourself for completing such a daunting task of which you were the first one here to accomplish!!

Alright! Really good stuff guys! Thanks for participating!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Good evening all you fine gentlemen and gentlewomen! I come before you today to make a simple request! There is a way that we can *see* the performance of your mouse, and this is often more helpful than just getting opinions from people of unknown qualifications. It is not a difficult task and should take no longer than 5 standard minutes of your time! Much quicker and easier than taking and uploading the photos of your mice that many of you have graced us with!
> 
> The directions are thus:
> 
> 1. Click on the main "Mouse" section on this forum.
> 2. Look at the very top where there are stickied posts!
> 3. Click on "Microe's MouseTester Software".
> 4. Click on the link provided in the *O*riginal *P*ost to download the program!
> 5. Open the program after it downloads!
> 6. Follow the directions that blessed Lord Microe has provided us in the very same thread only a single post down!
> 7. Here is sweet, kind Ino providing us with an example of roughly what your graph should look like: http://www.overclock.net/t/1554361
> 8. Upload the graph here so we can all see it and drool over it _(because you are such a good graph taker!!! Wow, your graph looks so nice!)_.
> 9. Let us know 3 things: 1) What your operating system is. 2) If the mouse is on 500 or 1000hz. 3) If you've previously manually installed KB2908279 on win 8.1 _(you would know if you did)_. 4) Your Windows power plan, c-states on/off in BIOS. If you're unsure for any of these, just type "unsure"!! Oops, did I say 3?
> 10. Visit reddit.com/r/aww to reward yourself for completing such a daunting task of which you were the first one here to accomplish!!
> 
> Alright! Really good stuff guys! Thanks for participating!


My mouse will probably be here Tuesday. I'll upload graphs of 500hz and 1000hz.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Like I said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People are confirming my conclusions. Sadly tho.


I feel like most of the folks not liking the ZA are probably claw grippers. Look at Mannheimer's mini review....it seems like he's trying to clawgrip a mouse that's meant for palming..


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> I feel like most of the folks not liking the ZA are probably claw grippers. Look at Mannheimer's mini review....it seems like he's trying to clawgrip a mouse that's meant for palming..


It should be usable in multiple grips, not just one.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> It should be usable in multiple grips, not just one.


Zowie says this is for people who prefer to rest their palm on the mouse so FK = clawgrip and ZA = palmgrip.


----------



## popups

Spoiler: Mannheimer



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mannheimer*
> 
> *Zowie ZA11*
> Way to big for my 18.5cm long hands. The mouse is so high in the rear that my heel of the hand is in the air and not on the mousepad. I need so hold it far back to get my hand down. Very uncomfortable for me. The mousewheel is a bit wobbly and it is a lot harder to scroll than on the Kana V2. Nevertheless scrolling is precise.
> 
> *Zowie ZA12*
> I thought this would be my mice to go. Looking at the measurements given by Zowie this should really close the gap between a SS Xai and my Kana V2. I was wrong cause the ZA12 feels bigger than the Xai and playing it for 1 hour my hand started to seize. The back of the mouse really pushs in my palm in an uncomfortable way.
> 
> *Zowie ZA13*
> I didn't thought that the smallest modell of thhe ZA series would fit me best but I liked the shape the most. The higher back of the mouse fills out my palm very comfortable. Even the mouse is very narrow my precision with it is really got. The Kana V2 in comparison feels a lot more flatter and wider. Switching between the ZA13 and Kana V2 the Zowie feels a lot more natural.
> But the Mousewheel is a shame! Is is unprecise like hell and has sometimes a leg of about half a second. Sometimes the scrolling wasn recognized and only after I moved the mouse the scrollwheelaction was transmitted. That accours in a lot of misswitches in CS:GO which is an absolute no go!
> 
> *Generall to Zowie ZA-Series*
> The coating ist not what I am used to, after 15 minutes of play I started seeing my fingerprints. Never had that an the Steelseries Mice before.
> The clicks are a little bit stiffer but I kinda like it. I was impressed by the very smoth cable all ZA mice came with. It wasn't as stiff as I thought it would be. Even if I became a fan of corded cable over the years a really like the Zowie cable.
> It is like someone said before: They made three bad shapes instead of one good one.
> 
> I know that the problems on the ZA13 aren't normal but the quality of all three mice wasn't good. Each mouse has at least one dealbreaker which really pisses me off.
> 
> I will give the ZA13 shape a chance and going to play it for the next 2 days. If I really really like it I will order an replancement otherwise all three mice are going back
> 
> After testing the SS Rival, SS Kana V2 and the Zowie ZA Series I am not shure if there is a mouse which fits my preferences...






Sounds like you are trying to hold the mouse like you did your others. No surprise it would disappoint you considering that.

Seems like you want a small mouse where you can have your hand "ride" on top of the mouse. A lot of designs are not meant for that, especially symmetrical shapes.

I don't hold my DeathAdder like I do my FK. I don't really hold my AM like I do my FK.

The Rival shows finger prints like crazy (from what I remember).


----------



## Mannheimer

I need to correct my little review where I wrote that I didn't like the ZA12 cause of its size. After I have tried to play with the Z13 the mousewheel really gets me crazy. Weaponswitches during the game, no precise Weapon selection and an horrible feeling trying to bunnyhop - Unreasonable. So I gave the ZA12 another chance and it is like "popups" wrote before:
Quote:


> Sounds like you are trying to hold the mouse like you did your others. No surprise it would disappoint you considering that.


Holding the mouse a little bit loose and let the shape guide my hand end in a comfortable grip. I could get to the top of my aiming and felt more secure using the Zowie ZA12 than the Kana V2 which was a little bit too small. My aiming was smoother and flickshots were better than ever before.
Unfortunately my hand hurts a little bit after 3 hours of gaming but maybe I just need to get used to it.

I am note sure about it but I think the ZA12 could be my new mouse.


----------



## Steele84

So another little update, I thought the ZA11 was gonna be better after last night with the ROCCAT, however a few hours in and my pinky is killing me! Looks like the ZA11 isn't gonna work for me.... BOOOOO! May send both back and go back to my G9x.


----------



## bond10

Wow, does ANYONE like their ZA mouse? I guess I might have to settle for the FK1 and stiff buttons or maybe try out an EC2-A


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steele84*
> 
> So another little update, I thought the ZA11 was gonna be better after last night with the ROCCAT, however a few hours in and my pinky is killing me! Looks like the ZA11 isn't gonna work for me.... BOOOOO! May send both back and go back to my G9x.


Try the Genius Maurus.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Wow, does ANYONE like their ZA mouse? I guess I might have to settle for the FK1 and stiff buttons or maybe try out an EC2-A


There is only 1-2 people who are not happy. Others like it. It's no G302/3.

I might buy one today when I order my ModMic. Not sure about that though. I am fine with my taped up FK and 2 AMs. It's not like the 3310 performs better than the 1800 CPI SROM 3090.

I would like to see an entirely new symmetrical shape from Zowie or Mionix. I would lean more towards Mionix.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Just because I was mildly disappointed with the ZA11 doesn't mean I hate it. I actually really like the ZA11, I just have a few problems with button placement and the length. It's also worth mentioning that my preferred grip style isn't ideal for the best control of the mouse (which is subjective, but for me, palm isn't idea if you want those small, precise movements.)
> 
> I've been using the ZA12 and enjoy it thoroughly. Lent my ZA11 to a friend, as he really likes it and volunteered to do the weight mod for me. I lack the tools to cut PCB.


It'll depend on the mouse your using and the size and shape (fat or thin) of your hand. In most cases the more of your hand that makes contact with the mouse the greater the control. Which is why 95%+ pro and top level CS players use palm.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Not sure what you are on but take less of it - or stay away from the net while high as you tend to embarrass yourself on regular basis while in that state.


Are you serious? The 303 shape is one of the most criticized shapes ever released...


----------



## ramraze

Well tbh most people are NOT happy with it. The ones I've talked to and the reviews I've seen/read. Just shows half-arserino design. It COULD have been good.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Well tbh most people are NOT happy with it. The ones I've talked to and the reviews I've seen/read. Just shows half-arserino design. It COULD have been good.


Guys, pls. Just hold off for my review. Then you will have the definite answer.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Guys, pls. Just hold off for my review. Then you will have the definite answer.


Lawl? M9, hold off for MY review. You'll have the MOST definite answer


----------



## Mannheimer

Another Update:
Even if I like the ZA12 I came to to conclusion that all three ZA Mice are going back. I had god aiming with the mouse but my hand starts hurting like hell after playing more than 3 hours in a row which is not unusual. The high reararea increases the angle of my hand and my palm isn't very comfortable with it. Reducing the height of the mouse and the position of the little hill and the mouse would be good.
So I've ordered a FK2 and hope it will be better...


----------



## auzcar

I've now given the ZA11 a good run and I can sadly say that even though the shape fits well in my hand (well, it's a bit thin but otherwise good) I just can't perform with it so I have to put it aside. I actually plan to try and change my grip a little bit as I've found that there really aren't any mice out there that works well enough for it.


----------



## Melan

I tried ZA12 a friend's place. It's pretty comfy mouse tbh and clicks aren't so stiff as I expected.


----------



## ro77en

Coming from an FK1, i tried za11 and za12.

I use a claw hybrid grip. My hand size is 18.5-19cm from base to tip.

*ZA11*
Was too high for me, since the hump is further back than most mice it actually feels higher than the specd hight of 40mm. I found myself with the hand over the mice and not touching the pad wich i like for control.

*ZA12*

This one was more comfortable and more useable but the width throw me off, especially the width in the back side that touches the base of the palm. I found that it wasnt as controllable as the fk1, and my aim and recoil control suffered.

So in conclusion, I really think if zowie would have put the hump towards the middle of the mouse these designs could have been a winner.

Back to the FK1 it is for me.


----------



## bond10

Wow at the negative reviews. Most of you predicted correctly, nice. Thought this was going to be the Sensei/Kana/Kinzu with a 3310


----------



## argentum

Zowie ZA11 is my favourite Zowie mouse. I have owned Fk1 and FK2, which I both kinda liked, but ultimately couldn't get used to either. ZA11 perfect palm grip mouse for me, G303 is my claw grip mouse


----------



## Arizonian

I am a casual gamer, stretches of gameplay last from two to three hours. 18cm hands prefer smaller mice. Not as critical of my mice, encountering less issues than hardcore gamers. I'm a bit adaptable to slightly different shapes as long as it's small form.

Using it since release, I'm one of the people that like this mouse, specifically ZA13.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah prefer my ZA11 to the FK1. Wasn't a big of a change as I thought though. And could go for more width. Still best mouse on the market for me at the moment.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Yeah prefer my ZA11 to the FK1. Wasn't a big of a change as I thought though. And could go for more width. Still best mouse on the market for me at the moment.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I am a casual gamer, stretches of gameplay last from two to three hours. 18cm hands prefer smaller mice. Not as critical of my mice, encountering less issues than hardcore gamers. I'm a bit adaptable to slightly different shapes as long as it's small form.
> 
> Using it since release, I'm one of the people that like this mouse, specifically ZA13.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *argentum*
> 
> Zowie ZA11 is my favourite Zowie mouse. I have owned Fk1 and FK2, which I both kinda liked, but ultimately couldn't get used to either. ZA11 perfect palm grip mouse for me, G303 is my claw grip mouse


O great. Back in the shopping cart it goes a ZA12.


----------



## a_ak57

You shouldn't really decide purchases strictly based on other people's opinions of a shape anyway. If people were negatively reviewing it for the tracking or something then sure, cross it off the list, but shape is too subjective to write something off. The G303 probably has the most dislike I've seen regarding its shape but I still don't think anyone should automatically discount it because there are still people who like it. You have to decide these things for yourself and try to glean objectivity from the comments then assess how relevant that is for you specifically. Like if you're looking for a 1:1 sensei shape then we know the ZA series is not that, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll dislike the shape. But if you dislike mice with larger butts then maybe that is a reason to not bother.


----------



## AnimalK

I have been waiting for a Canadian shop to sell them and canada computers has started listing them.

I think I am settled on a ZA 12.


----------



## Contra9

Superbiiz has all the ZA series in stock and is running a 10% (code is TRIBUTE10) with free shipping. Grabbed a ZA12. Looking forward to trying my first Zowie







. Took me a while to decide but I think the ZA11 is a bit too big with that new back.


----------



## CorruptBE

To anyone that owns both: How does the ZA12 compare to the AM?


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Contra9*
> 
> Superbiiz has all the ZA series in stock and is running a 10% (code is TRIBUTE10) with free shipping. Grabbed a ZA12. Looking forward to trying my first Zowie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Took me a while to decide but I think the ZA11 is a bit too big with that new back.


Thanks I was not aware of these guys. Unfortunately they want to charge me minimum 51$ for shipping


----------



## Contra9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks I was not aware of these guys. Unfortunately they want to charge me minimum 51$ for shipping


Free to northern New York, $51 to Montreal. Makes sense...... Probably easier to get to Montreal.


----------



## LegoFarmer

ZA12 arrived today. Here is a graph at 1000hz and 500hz


For some reason, my newer graphs are looking different than the ones I uploaded (In a good way, they look cleaner), so I might upload updates after a few days of use and see what happens. Review coming soon.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> ZA12 arrived today. Here is a graph at 1000hz and 500hz
> 
> 
> For some reason, my newer graphs are looking different than the ones I uploaded (In a good way, they look cleaner), so I might upload updates after a few days of use and see what happens. Review coming soon.


That doesn't look very clean, does it?
What surface are you testing it on?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> That doesn't look very clean, does it?
> What surface are you testing it on?


Keep it mind they go to 5 m/s or around there. I use a Perixx DX-2000XXL. My recent graphs with it are cleaner. I'll re-upload them in a few days to make sure they stay consistent.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> That doesn't look very clean, does it?
> What surface are you testing it on?


The 3310 appears to be more picky of what surfaces and colors it will perform well on.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The 3310 appears to be more picky of what surfaces and colors it will perform well on.


I only use black pads. Here is a slightly better graph at 500hz. Okay, so in the other graphs, I did not realize that my C-states were on in bios. I turned them off and redid the graphs. Here are the settings done with 500hz and 1000hz on the ZA12. Power plan in windows is on balanced, C-states off, no manual windows updates, no drivers for other mice installed, and DX-2000XXL pad.


----------



## duydangle

I'm using kinzu v3 and quite comfort with it. I've tried fk1 but I sold it for the reasons:
- Larger than kinzu. My hand is quite small and I feel comfort with kinzu. Of course if I use fk1 more I can get used to it.
- More weight than kinzu.
- Warmer than kinzu. It makes me feel not good as kinzu (quite cold).
- Scroll is much worse than kinzu. I bunnyhop a lot.

I'm looking for a replacement of kinzu with better sensor and button. Do you guys think za12/za13 will suit me well? Anyone got za13 and kinzu compared side by side?

Thanks!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duydangle*
> 
> I'm using kinzu v3 and quite comfort with it. I've tried fk1 but I sold it for the reasons:
> - Larger than kinzu. My hand is quite small and I feel comfort with kinzu. Of course if I use fk1 more I can get used to it.
> - More weight than kinzu.
> - Warmer than kinzu. It makes me feel not good as kinzu (quite cold).
> - Scroll is much worse than kinzu. I bunnyhop a lot.
> 
> I'm looking for a replacement of kinzu with better sensor and button. Do you guys think za12/za13 will suit me well? Anyone got za13 and kinzu compared side by side?
> 
> Thanks!


The ZA12 feels like the FK1 with a butt even though it resembles the FK2. The ZA13 probably resembles the kinzu the most.


----------



## Arizonian

ZA 11 & ZA 12 being sold on Newegg now.

Priced at $82 plus $15.30 shipping.









http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=zowie&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Seems ZA 13 is not listed yet. No newegg premier guarantee from 3rd party vendor , wouldn't mind a re-stocking fee to try the ZA 12 but not at this price.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> ZA 11 & ZA 12 being sold on Newegg now.
> 
> Priced at $82 plus $15.30 shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=zowie&N=-1&isNodeId=1
> 
> Seems ZA 13 is not listed yet. No newegg premier guarantee from 3rd party vendor , wouldn't mind a re-stocking fee to try the ZA 12 but not at this price.


Not really being sold by newegg.


----------



## frewp

I claw grip and don't really know if my hand is big or not but I have extra room length wise on the FK1.
I've asked this before but it was before the release of this series.

If I decided to get a new mouse so it's smaller would you go with the ZA13 or FK2 if you were me?

If there was an FK3 with the length of the ZA13, then it would be a no brainer but there isn't.
But not really sure how the bump in the back of the mouse would work with a claw grip?

Maybe FK2 if the size is a noticeable difference from the FK1 :L

i'd be using the FK1 for other pc's so it won't be a complete waste to get a new mouse.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> I claw grip and don't really know if my hand is big or not but I have extra room length wise on the FK1.
> I've asked this before but it was before the release of this series.
> 
> If I decided to get a new mouse so it's smaller would you go with the ZA13 or FK2 if you were me?
> 
> If there was an FK3 with the length of the ZA13, then it would be a no brainer but there isn't.
> But not really sure how the bump in the back of the mouse would work with a claw grip?
> 
> Maybe FK2 if the size is a noticeable difference from the FK1 :L
> 
> i'd be using the FK1 for other pc's so it won't be a complete waste to get a new mouse.


from what i've seen people say you really have a hard time trying to claw a ZA because of the butt


----------



## frewp

yeah it'd probably be an FK2 if I got a new mouse..
i know there's other mice out there but ever since my FK1 i just can't use anything other than Zowie, crushes any steelseries mouse I've used
I just wish they had an FK3 similar to ZA13


----------



## MaximilianKohler

The more people that post graphs, the better idea we get of the sensor performance.

Instructions.

So far it seems like the ZA series might be performing a bit better than the FK series. Though it looks like there is still variance from mouse to mouse.


----------



## duydangle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> The ZA12 feels like the FK1 with a butt even though it resembles the FK2. The ZA13 probably resembles the kinzu the most.


Thank you so much! What do you think about scroll wheel of fk vs za series. Is scroll wheel on za series super sensitive like auto jump when binding mousewheel like on rival?


----------



## solz

Is there somebody that owns a Zowie ZA mouse and a Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1/1.1a and can tell me which one is the closest to the Intelli?

Thanks!!


----------



## CrimsonVertigo

I am currently using a FK2, which of the 2 would be a better fit, ZA 12 or ZA13?

My finger measures 18cm from tip to bottom of palm. Just interested to try out an ambidextrous palm grip mouse.


----------



## plath

Shame Zowie mice are always so overpriced. £60 =/


----------



## Forma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrimsonVertigo*
> 
> I am currently using a FK2, which of the 2 would be a better fit, ZA 12 or ZA13?
> 
> My finger measures 18cm from tip to bottom of palm. Just interested to try out an ambidextrous palm grip mouse.


i have the orignal FK (same size as FK2) and the ZA13 feels pretty much the same, the butt oesn't affect me in the slighest. I'd almost go as far to say stick with your fk2 unless there is something wrong with it.


----------



## bovi77

ok just got my ZA 12 & 13.

ZA 13 suits me better. very comfortable in claw/palm grip even though i would prefer a small hump. So if you like the FK2, choose the ZA13. ZA13 isn't a small mouse imo.

The ZA 12 feels slightly wider and fill so much of my hand/palm that it doesnt suit the way i play csgo.

love the downward sloping buttons and overall i think because of the hump providing counter weight to my clicks, my tapping or 1 shot pistols seem to be more accurate.

button clicks are different imo to the FK2 / FK1. not stiff like the FK but not soft like the EC. its definitely louder and feels slightly stiffer than the FK2. clicks are pretty uniform from tip to about 1.5 inches back - so better than the FK series.

mouse feet are definitely different. ZA13 feet are smaller than ZA12 and the other FK mice


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Is there somebody that owns a Zowie ZA mouse and a Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1/1.1a and can tell me which one is the closest to the Intelli?
> 
> Thanks!!


The ZA12 is the closest







.


----------



## Forma

scroll wheel is already doing what it wants to, when it wants to. Scroll wheel skips button presses sometimes and will also randomly switch weapon if i am aggressive with it, etc.

RMA i guess.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> ok just got my ZA 12 & 13.
> 
> ZA 13 suits me better. very comfortable in claw/palm grip even though i would prefer a small hump. So if you like the FK2, choose the ZA13. ZA13 isn't a small mouse imo.


how big are your hands?


----------



## muwaji

which one is closer to the zowie am? i palmed the zowie am which is why im intrested in this mouse. lvoed the zowie am though.


----------



## Soo8

Any of you ZA11 owners can compare the mouse to? I'm currently looking for a mouse with a hump, and the closest sizes to the sensei (width, height of the hump) is the ZA11. I also have a fk2 which doesn't support my palm at all.


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> how big are your hands?


19cm. I prefer smaller / narrower mice actually. I think in-game i prefer the FK2 to the ZA13. the ZA is just slightly too wide for me. its for the same reason i prefer the FK over the FK2 (they are supposed to be the same but i feel a small difference). i play with my wrists not arm. the ZA is very comfortable when i palm grip it - i just dont play well with a palm grip.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> 19cm. I prefer smaller / narrower mice actually. I think in-game i prefer the FK2 to the ZA13. the ZA is just slightly too wide for me. its for the same reason i prefer the FK over the FK2 (they are supposed to be the same but i feel a small difference). i play with my wrists not arm. the ZA is very comfortable when i palm grip it - i just dont play well with a palm grip.


Isn't the ZA13 narrower than the FK2? If I remember correctly, that's what the specs say.


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Isn't the ZA13 narrower than the FK2? If I remember correctly, that's what the specs say.


I actually think the share the same width spec-wise but bear in mind the ZA hump - it eats up the span/width of my hand, so that effectively the ZA13 is wider than the FK2. if you prefer to palm grip then it'll be ok for some1 who is coming from an FK2. if you hybrid or claw, i think the FK series is better suited. also with the ZA i found i had to click with my fingers curled up - using my fingernails - instead of laying my fingers flat-ish.

something with about 50% less hump would have been great for me.


----------



## ShineAnder

Anyone knows if ZA13 is heavier/lighter than the FK2?

I am currently using kana v2 and interested whether fk2 or za13 provide similar comfort/shape to the kana v2.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShineAnder*
> 
> Anyone knows if ZA13 is heavier/lighter than the FK2?


FK2 = 85g

ZA13 = 80g


----------



## emilyheskey

can you claw grip the ZA 13?

i'v been using a original FK for the past year, with a kind of half claw grip. will i adjust to the za 13 smoothly?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> can you claw grip the ZA 13?
> 
> i'v been using a original FK for the past year, with a kind of half claw grip. will i adjust to the za 13 smoothly?


Only the mouse in your hand will answer that.


----------



## emilyheskey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Only the mouse in your hand will answer that.


Yeah thought so. Just bought it. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> Yeah thought so. Just bought it. Fingers crossed.


as i told you on hltv forums (lol) the fk2 is zowie's designed "claw grip" mouse while the za series is supposed to be for palm grip, but since the za13 is so small you can probably manage


----------



## emilyheskey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> as i told you on hltv forums (lol) the fk2 is zowie's designed "claw grip" mouse while the za series is supposed to be for palm grip, but since the za13 is so small you can probably manage


yeah thats what i was thinking. i even contacted the shop i ordered my ZA13 from and asked about the new batches of FK2's and he told me he could look through them to find a FK2 with a 2015 serial number so thats my backup plan if the ZA feels bad.


----------



## Ino.

So I finally came around doing a video review of the lot:


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> So I finally came around doing a video review of the lot:
> 
> *SNIP]


Updated the first post with video. Nice work.


----------



## emilyheskey

my ZA13 came this morning. feelsgoodman.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Updated the first post with video. Nice work.










thanks!


----------



## emilyheskey

my ZA13 actually feels bigger than my FK 2013. Clicks feel better.


----------



## bond10

Can anyone with a Deathadder or an IE 3.0 compare it to the ZA11 size-wise. Is the ZA11 smaller or bigger than those mice?


----------



## AnimalK

Great video Ino!

I just got home with my ZA12. I am off to do some gaming with it!


----------



## Venrar

I always thought of the 1.1/xai shape as good for fingertip grip, but then I used to use a 518 with a fingertip grip too. Is this that impossible to grip the way I do?


----------



## ghostlacuna

Hum though the ZA11 would work better for me then FK1 but that proved to be false for me.

Neither of them works better for me then avior 7000.

Oh well i will keep the fk1 and a secondary at work and sell the za11 and 502 so i can get some money back from it all.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostlacuna*
> 
> Hum though the ZA11 would work better for me then FK1 but that proved to be false for me.
> 
> Neither of them works better for me then avior 7000.
> 
> Oh well i will keep the fk1 and a secondary at work and sell the za11 and 502 so i can get some money back from it all.


Can you give some information why they dont work for you well ?


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Can you give some information why they dont work for you well ?


Sure i though the bigger butt on the ZA11 would work better for me then the FK1 but in the end it turned out the opposite. For lack of a better term the bigger butt force my wrist upward to a higher angle then i am used to and i get cramps faster.

The only thing the fk1 lack that the avior have for me is a slightly nicer butt on the avior and slightly better side buttons.

Had to RMA one FK1 since i managed to press the sidebuttons inside the mouse and then mouse 4 got stuck in that position.

But i really like the FK1 and will change my mouse at work from the 502 to the FK1 since tilted "ergonomical" mice wreck my wrist.

Cant really say the stiffness of the FK1 has ever bothered me i personally like it.

For me the FK1 and the avior is the best mice i have ever used.


----------



## Kroah

I've read several pages but can't find the answer:

Can you please tell me if all 4 side buttons can be enabled to 4 different hotkeys at the same time like a true 7 buttons mouse ? (i use both sides for games like MWO)

I'm almost sure this can't be done according to the FK/AM, but i still hope







.

Thank you


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kroah*
> 
> I've read several pages but can't find the answer:
> 
> Can you please tell me if all 4 side buttons can be enabled to 4 different hotkeys at the same time like a true 7 buttons mouse ? (i use both sides for games like MWO)
> 
> I'm almost sure this can't be done according to the FK/AM, but i still hope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Thank you


unfortunately no, you can only enable one side of 2 buttons at a time. TBH i'm not sure why they bother to create 3 different sizes but don't allow you to make the decision to have no side buttons on your mouse


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> unfortunately no, you can only enable one side of 2 buttons at a time. TBH i'm not sure why they bother to create 3 different sizes but don't allow you to make the decision to have no side buttons on your mouse


Probably because most people prefer to have two side buttons. It's about cost to demand and such. It's good to see that there are other choices without side buttons, though. Some people just hate them.


----------



## Synesteria

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> my ZA13 actually feels bigger than my FK 2013. Clicks feel better.


But your are able to claw it properly? I have 19 cm long hands, but I tend to curl my fingers so much that my FK1 has almost 2 cm of extra length.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Synesteria*
> 
> But your are able to claw it properly? I have 19 cm long hands, but I tend to curl my fingers so much that my FK1 has almost 2 cm of extra length.


I prefer smaller mice too. I have 18cm hands coming from a right handed ergo savu that's a tad larger than my ZA13 ambi shell. Something tells me to try the ZA12 just to see. The ZA13 feels good in my hand which is mostly a hybrid claw / palm grip.

Could it be better or perhaps perfect with the ZA12 I wouldn't know until I tried. You might just have to choose and do same. One thing I like about the new ZA line, If you like the ZA shape in hand, it's only a matter of finding which one of three fits best. Not a choice we normally get with mice.


----------



## AnimalK

After a couple of days with my ZA12 I am very happy with it.

I love my launch FK1 but I found the clicks a little too stiff and I feel a bit of click latency. This is supposedly fixed in newer 2015 batches but I have seen no proof to back this up.
I love my EC2-A. Amazing main button clicks and shape. I really like the high scroll wheel. I didn't like the side buttons that much as they were too mushy for my taste.
The above two were my two favourite mice up till now and I own a significant portion of the high end wired gaming mice released in the last 2 years.

I have 18cm hands. I palm/fingertip hybrid grip but usually I want to just palm.

My favourite ambidextrous shapes ever are the Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1, Steelseries Sensei RAW and Zowie FK1 (the first being my favourite).

The Zowie ZA12 to me feels like a combination of all three. And I love it.

The high hump in the back fits my grip style perfectly as wrist rotations are easily supported and make the mouse feel much faster than it is.

The main clicks feel the same as my EC2-A in terms of resistance and feedback. These are my favourite clicks.
The side buttons feel like my launch FK1 but slightly tighter. There is zero play in them.

The scroll wheel feels very close to my FK1 which is not my favourite scroll wheel admittedly. But I am happy to report that it feels much tighter than the former. There is no play in the wheel and notches are very tight. Most importantly I have not missed a single scroll up or down.

Tracking is typical 3310 greatness. Nothing to mention really on this other than love and praise.

Overall this mouse gives me the impression of a very high quality build with top performance to back it up.

*I highly recommend this mouse for those that identify with my tastes and grip styles.*

After having experienced 3 different mice from Zowie over the last 2 years, I am comfortable saying that Zowie is my favourite mouse maker at the moment.


----------



## bobleworm

I received my ZA 11 few days ago and a FK1, i wanted to try them both and send back the one i dislike, i am currently using a SS Rival. After few gaming sessions, i immediately put aside the FK1, it was to small for me. I have 20cm hands and a relaxed palm grip style. The FK1 was comfortable at the front but there was too much space in my back palm and it felt weird. I prefer the ZA 11 for my grip style but it is sightly too small for me, if i want to have a good hand placement, i need to back my palm a little bit and my palm is no longer fully supported by the bump. My aiming was very good but i think i am not used to ambidextrous mouse enough and my ring and pinky finger don't have enough space on the side and i have less control of it. My hands starts cramping after few minutes. I hope giving this mouse an other chance soon but i am currently sticking to my rival which suits my hand perfectly and still helps my precision. I am not saying the ZA is a bad mouse it just happen to be not made for me. For people with common grips and with slightly shorter hands i think it can be perfect. Love the quality of the rival though, i haven't had any issues with it.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobleworm*
> 
> I received my ZA 11 few days ago and a FK1, i wanted to try them both and send back the one i dislike, i am currently using a SS Rival. After few gaming sessions, i immediately put aside the FK1, it was to small for me. I have 20cm hands and a relaxed palm grip style. The FK1 was comfortable at the front but there was too much space in my back palm and it felt weird. I prefer the ZA 11 for my grip style but it is sightly too small for me, if i want to have a good hand placement, i need to back my palm a little bit and my palm is no longer fully supported by the bump. My aiming was very good but i think i am not used to ambidextrous mouse enough and my ring and pinky finger don't have enough space on the side and i have less control of it. My hands starts cramping after few minutes. I hope giving this mouse an other chance soon but i am currently sticking to my rival which suits my hand perfectly and still helps my precision. I am not saying the ZA is a bad mouse it just happen to be not made for me. For people with common grips and with slightly shorter hands i think it can be perfect. Love the quality of the rival though, i haven't had any issues with it.


EC1-A is probably a better fit for you.


----------



## bobleworm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> EC1-A is probably a better fit for you.


I've tried it at a friend's house, seemed to be very comfortable (a better deathadder shape) but still a little short with a full palm, maybe i'll give it a try but i hated the scroll wheel and the lighting on it !


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobleworm*
> 
> I've tried it at a friend's house, seemed to be very comfortable (a better deathadder shape) but still a little short with a full palm, maybe i'll give it a try but i hated the scroll wheel and the lighting on it !


I put tape over the LED in mine. Too lazy to desolder the LED lol. Fair enough, though. I personally don't like the rival at all, but some people love it, so it's not anything I would judge. I can see why people like the comfort, though.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobleworm*
> 
> I received my ZA 11 few days ago and a FK1, i wanted to try them both and send back the one i dislike, i am currently using a SS Rival. After few gaming sessions, i immediately put aside the FK1, it was to small for me. I have 20cm hands and a relaxed palm grip style. The FK1 was comfortable at the front but there was too much space in my back palm and it felt weird. I prefer the ZA 11 for my grip style but it is sightly too small for me, if i want to have a good hand placement, i need to back my palm a little bit and my palm is no longer fully supported by the bump. My aiming was very good but i think i am not used to ambidextrous mouse enough and my ring and pinky finger don't have enough space on the side and i have less control of it. My hands starts cramping after few minutes. I hope giving this mouse an other chance soon but i am currently sticking to my rival which suits my hand perfectly and still helps my precision. I am not saying the ZA is a bad mouse it just happen to be not made for me. For people with common grips and with slightly shorter hands i think it can be perfect. Love the quality of the rival though, i haven't had any issues with it.


Have you tried IME3.0? That's bigger than a EC1-A with a great sensor and also ergonomic for right handed, so if you are serious with an FPS game, consider using the IME3.0 just for that and any other mouse for browsing, etc.


----------



## bond10

For anyone in the U.S. I would like to let you know that superbiiz.com just denied my RMA request because returns aren't accepted for opened items. Keep that in mind when purchasing stuff from that site.

Got a EC2-A forever now.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> Have you tried IME3.0? That's bigger than a EC1-A with a great sensor and also ergonomic for right handed, so if you are serious with an FPS game, consider using the IME3.0 just for that and any other mouse for browsing, etc.


Hm. I don' think the IE3.0 is bigger than the EC1.
The IE3.0 is flatter overall but a little bit longer.
The EC1 is higher but a little bit shorter.

They both are very similar though.


----------



## Axaion

Its way bigger than the EC1.


----------



## 314X

Hello guys!
I just registered to comment on the ZA series, since I bought one myself just today. First of all I'd like to say that i originally bought the FK2, but since it was too small for my hand I decided to return it and get the ZA11 instead. Today I received it and it's been literally 2-3 hours since I've plugged it in. And I already have a problem. I have the QPAD CT Large and I'm experiencing tracking problems on an certain area on the mouse pad. The mouse pad is only 1 week old and I haven't got any problems with it while playing with my old and trusty mx518. Is the problem that the sensor is faulty? Should I return it or am I gonna get the same issue with every mouse?
Cheers


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> Should I return it or am I gonna get the same issue with every mouse?
> Cheers


If you can return it, then do it BUT also purchase another mouse pad to be sure that it's not the sensor at fault alone.


----------



## 314X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> If you can return it, then do it BUT also purchase another mouse pad to be sure that it's not the sensor at fault alone.


Well, I did try the pad with another mouse and it didn't seem to affect it. Plus I tried the zowie on my old pad and it didn't have any issues performing. And i pinpointed the problem - the tracking issue occurs when the sensor goes through the blue lines on the mouse pad. Pretty sad about all this, I wasn't aware Zowie had colored mousepad tracking issues.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> Well, I did try the pad with another mouse and it didn't seem to affect it. Plus I tried the zowie on my old pad and it didn't have any issues performing. And i pinpointed the problem - the tracking issue occurs when the sensor goes through the blue lines on the mouse pad. Pretty sad about all this, I wasn't aware Zowie had colored mousepad tracking issues.


3310 and 3988 are extremely susceptible to this.


----------



## 314X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> 3310 and 3988 are extremely susceptible to this.


I had no idea. Dang. Well, I'm definitely returning it. The next mouse I'm going to try is the SteelSeries Rival. Still pretty bummed out about all of this.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> I had no idea. Dang. Well, I'm definitely returning it. The next mouse I'm going to try is the SteelSeries Rival. Still pretty bummed out about all of this.


Why dont you ditch colorful mousepads and get a proper black pad.


----------



## 314X

I honestly don't know what to go for. I tried the steelseries Qck heavy, but it was a bit too big. And I really like the surface on the QPAD. Feels like nothing I've tried before. Honestly I really don't know what to do now. Plus I'm not sure I can return the mousepad at this point.


----------



## pgabor

I hope you
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> I had no idea. Dang. Well, I'm definitely returning it. The next mouse I'm going to try is the SteelSeries Rival. Still pretty bummed out about all of this.


I hope you know, that the Rival uses the 3310 as well


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> I honestly don't know what to go for. I tried the steelseries Qck heavy, but it was a bit too big. And I really like the surface on the QPAD. Feels like nothing I've tried before. Honestly I really don't know what to do now. Plus I'm not sure I can return the mousepad at this point.


Xtrfy lg4 large. Qpad uc v2 diff sizes, cm storm swift speed. Lot of options tbh


----------



## 314X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pgabor*
> 
> I hope you
> I hope you know, that the Rival uses the 3310 as well


Yeah, I just saw the specifications on the mouse. Thanks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Xtrfy lg4 large. Qpad uc v2 diff sizes, cm storm swift speed. Lot of options tbh


I would really like to hear more about this. Can you PM me, guess I have a lot to catch up to.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> Yeah, I just saw the specifications on the mouse. Thanks.
> I would really like to hear more about this. Can you PM me, guess I have a lot to catch up to.


I have a zowie FK1, a zowie EC2-a, and had a rival. Didn't have any tracking issues on a razer goliathus (latest one), a QCK Dota2 pad, and a puretrak talent (white hexagon pattern).


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> 3310 and 3988 are extremely susceptible to this.


Using EC2-a and FK1 on the G-SR from Zowie, no issues at all.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> I honestly don't know what to go for. I tried the steelseries Qck heavy, but it was a bit too big. And I really like the surface on the QPAD. Feels like nothing I've tried before. Honestly I really don't know what to do now. Plus I'm not sure I can return the mousepad at this point.


Does the ZA11 feel good in your hand / Does it have a good shape for your grip style?
Does it make your hand hurt after hours of gaming?
Do you like the sensor responsiveness ingame?
Do you like its clicks, buttons?

If you are positive in all or most of this, what you should do is replace the pad and not the mouse.


----------



## papalazaru

You can try playing around with the lift off distance. I don't have issues with Goliathus + FK1. The graphics are more fuzzy though.


----------



## ramraze

Took some more comparison shots of my own, and it turns out Kana feels quite a bit wider because of the butt. What Zowie have done is measure the width of the butt at the base, where it's at max, but the area where you grip is like closer to 60-62 mm, which is a shame. As you may see from the mediocre quality pics( apologies), that the Kana is wider from the butt. This gives you a huge performance boost in my testing. No matter which grip I tested, I felt a lot more accurate and stable with the kana both in flickshots and tracking targets. Too bad it's too low from the front for me.

If the za series mice would be 2-4 mm wider from everywhere, I would take it to sleep with me and put it under my pillow. I would never ever even have to think about new mice. I would give them all my money


----------



## mousefan

so i get my za11 in a few mins.









I wont Review anything or take some deep note of critism, i will grab it and play that machine and that's mainly it.

CSGO until sundown.


----------



## 314X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> Does the ZA11 feel good in your hand / Does it have a good shape for your grip style?
> Does it make your hand hurt after hours of gaming?
> Do you like the sensor responsiveness ingame?
> Do you like its clicks, buttons?
> 
> If you are positive in all or most of this, what you should do is replace the pad and not the mouse.


It feels really good, best feel on my hand I've experienced so far. I am going to have to change the mousepad it seems.

Btw I have a friend who uses the Rival on a SteelSeries QcK mass Fantasy Art Gank Edition which has tons of different colors on it, and he doesn't experience any tracking problems. I don't know what to believe anymore. Guess some sensors have issues, some don't.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> It feels really good, best feel on my hand I've experienced so far. I am going to have to change the mousepad it seems.
> 
> Btw I have a friend who uses the Rival on a SteelSeries QcK mass Fantasy Art Gank Edition which has tons of different colors on it, and he doesn't experience any tracking problems. I don't know what to believe anymore. Guess some sensors have issues, some don't.


Clearly your unit was slightly defective. It doesn't mean every sensor exhibits this problem, LOL. Some units may be worse than others. Just like CPUs, some OC better than others, that's just how it is. Hope you get it now.


----------



## Pirx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably because most people prefer to have two side buttons. It's about cost to demand and such. It's good to see that there are other choices without side buttons, though. Some people just hate them.


that's unfortunate. i have a zowie fk2, but i'd like to use ONE button on the left (first one, press it with my thumb) and ONE button on the right (first one, press it with my ring finger). what's so difficult about this? the mouse has the buttons but you can't use them.

otherwise
+ build quality
+ nice soft cord
+ tracks flawlessly
+ low LOD

- stiff clicks
- button problem above


----------



## 314X

Yeah, I know, I guess I'm just unlucky. I'm waiting for Zowie's response to my inquiry. They asked for more specific details on the problem at hand. Hope I can at least swap it for another


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> If the za series mice would be 2-4 mm wider from everywhere, I would take it to sleep with me and put it under my pillow. I would never ever even have to think about new mice. I would give them all my money


As a big Kana/Xai fan this is disappointing. All of the Zowie ambidextrous mice are a bit too narrow for some reason. I don't know why they do this









I'll keep this Newmen gx1 pro for now and wait for new releases from Steelseries, Mionix, Ducky, Finalmouse etc.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *314X*
> 
> I honestly don't know what to go for. I tried the steelseries Qck heavy, but it was a bit too big. And I really like the surface on the QPAD. Feels like nothing I've tried before. Honestly I really don't know what to do now. Plus I'm not sure I can return the mousepad at this point.


Supermat's #1!!

http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/500_50#post_23901805


----------



## mousefan

thx to zowie for this mouse. this is the one and only real intelli 1.1 advancement (ZA11) for me now shapewise and technically. to say it humble, a master Piece and nothing else in Terms of Counter strike gaming.

zowie always understood it to please the needs of cs players since the very first Zowie AM, but this is it guys, this is it.


----------



## Melan

Only if zowie delivered 303-like clicking experience, I would switch right away. Until then, stiffness of their clicks is very disappointing.


----------



## mousefan

for me a mouseexperience is all about the feeling. if the feeling is straight you cant go wrong with it. and i never experienced any Kind of lag with any zowie mouse. i never experienced and Kind of undirect click or switchfeeling and thats it. i hit with these mice so brutally direct if i am totally trained that the sun shows its respect and goes down by the Beauty of my glorious on point aimed and clicked shots.

i mean it zowie mice are the real king and I own a g502 for example. saying zowiemice deliver disadvantage because wannabe clicklatency is like blasphemy in my eyes.

and as i said, i know there is some Kind of own sense of Humor in my post, but I MEAN THIS. you cant go wrong with a zowie mouse and you never could.

i got them all and zowies are the best.


----------



## Melan

Click latency isn't the problem and actually, even with first batch FK1 I didn't notice any crippling delay compared to 303 while playing any FPS and osu!. Their stiff shell which prevents me from spamming M1/M2 really quick is a deal breaker. Doing something like 5 fast clicks in rapid succession in osu! with FK1 is tiring as hell.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Click latency isn't the problem and actually, even with first batch FK1 I didn't notice any crippling delay compared to 303 while playing any FPS and osu!. Their stiff shell which prevents me from spamming M1/M2 really quick is a deal breaker. Doing something like 5 fast clicks in rapid succession in osu! with FK1 is tiring as hell.


i see, yeah ah what should i say else than accepted but i am really with their products. only the zowie hammer Headset wasnt good enough in my eyes or from my experience.

but however i am sure you already found the mouse you are pleased with now.


----------



## Derp

I can't believe Amazon isn't selling these yet.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I can't believe Amazon isn't selling these yet.


Rage moment by anarki3D


----------



## mousefan

already legendary how good they made the shape and dimensions of that ZA11. Seriously to all guys knowing the old Feeling of a 1.1 intelli this is da mouse to catch.

its so good that i will invest complete 140euros in july and buy 2 for personal stock and keep playing them the next dacde. seriously i mean it. its AWESOME especiialy with an eye that i am lefty with average big 21 cm hands.

the next decade this or nothing.


----------



## emilyheskey

really like my za13.

wish the scroll wheel was a bit better though.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> already legendary how good they made the shape and dimensions of that ZA11. Seriously to all guys knowing the old Feeling of a 1.1 intelli this is da mouse to catch.
> 
> its so good that i will invest complete 140euros in july and buy 2 for personal stock and keep playing them the next dacde. seriously i mean it. its AWESOME especiialy with an eye that i am lefty with average big 21 cm hands.
> 
> the next decade this or nothing.


Seems humorous how you say that about every mouse you try







Thought you stuck with the Avior? Funny that you don't point out the thinness of the za11. It's far from great. But, if it works for you then that's great


----------



## Luxer

I have the ZA 13, the shape is very good but not perfect for a fingertip grip. It's slightly too narrow on the sides where your thumb rests and a few mm too high at the peak. It does use a lower quality coating than the rubberized FK... it feels more like the original SS Xai. Where your fingers rest has always been the high point for Zowie mice I think, really nice indentations that aren't too deep or too light.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Seems humorous how you say that about every mouse you try
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thought you stuck with the Avior? Funny that you don't point out the thinness of the za11. It's far from great. But, if it works for you then that's great


cause every mouse i try is a hit you sack. XD

and dont quassel my glory ears full of shiny bull if its a clear case son. best mouse ever created. take it or suck it but dont leave it. XD


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> cause every mouse i try is a hit you sack. XD
> 
> and dont quassel my glory ears full of shiny bull if its a clear case son. best mouse ever created. take it or suck it but dont leave it. XD


I didn't quite follow what you said but no hurt feelings intended. I was surprised that you don't use the avior. You seemed really happy with it when tou reviewed it. What made you change?
Za would be good if it was thicker. It seems that cs players dont notice this issue. Perhaps it is due to the nature of the game.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I didn't quite follow what you said but no hurt feelings intended. I was surprised that you don't use the avior. You seemed really happy with it when tou reviewed it. What made you change?
> Za would be good if it was thicker. It seems that cs players dont notice this issue. Perhaps it is due to the nature of the game.


bscht bsst XD


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> already legendary how good they made the shape and dimensions of that ZA11. Seriously to all guys knowing the old Feeling of a 1.1 intelli this is da mouse to catch.


The Intelli Optical 1.1 has the hump in the middle instead of in the back. The sides are also slanted different from bottom to top. They share similarities in that both are ambidextrous. But from there they are just completely different shapes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> its so good that i will invest complete 140euros in july and buy 2 for personal stock and keep playing them the next dacde. seriously i mean it.


You said that about so many mice already.








I can understand the enthusiasm you get from a new purchase. But try to tone down your first impressions or maybe wait for some weeks before spreading a so strong opinion.


----------



## mousefan

man i make my OPINIONS ANYTIME I WAAANT SO GET OFF MY HUMBLE DICK DUDE! XD

IF I SAY ITS AWESOME AND IT CANT GET ANY BETTER IT IS A FREAKING FAAACT SO GET OFF MY HUMBLE DICK DUDE.









CU LATER BROS PLAYING


----------



## slayenglish

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Only if zowie delivered 303-like clicking experience, I would switch right away. Until then, stiffness of their clicks is very disappointing.


I know they could be better.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slayenglish*
> 
> I know they could be better.


know its Preference and nothing else. huanos are godlike Counter strike switches for me personal. i felt in pure honest love with those Switches since the very first zowie mouse years ago brother.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> know its Preference and nothing else. huanos are godlike Counter strike switches for me personal. i felt in pure honest love with those Switches since the very first zowie mouse years ago brother.


have you tried zowie fk1? i got 19.5 cm hands and it really was uncomfortable to try and palm grip the fk1, but i really want to try a zowie mouse so i'm gonna get a za11, do you think it's different enough in shape that it might not cramp my hand that badly as the fk1? Should i just get the ec1-a?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Or an $8 supermat from Amazon. I use it. It's great especially for the price.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> have you tried zowie fk1? i got 19.5 cm hands and it really was uncomfortable to try and palm grip the fk1, but i really want to try a zowie mouse so i'm gonna get a za11, do you think it's different enough in shape that it might not cramp my hand that badly as the fk1? Should i just get the ec1-a?


I would try the EC1-A first.


----------



## Houser

The huano switch es of the ZA series its the same with the Fk?
This new ZA has the same click delay problems like the first fk1 ?? I am using the ec2 A and I am like thinking to switch to omron ...


----------



## Maximillion

Any word on the availability of the ZA series in the US? Rexflo, the main distributor, is sold out of literally every Zowie mouse and Amazon is full of overpriced 3rd-party sellers...


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Any word on the availability of the ZA series in the US? Rexflo, the main distributor, is sold out of literally every Zowie mouse and Amazon is full of overpriced 3rd-party sellers...


No kidding. I purchased my ZA13 for $65 (forgot what I paid for shipping) and was going to pick up a ZA12 to try. Which ever I liked best I would sell the other or pass on to family, but at $82 with $15.60 sipping that's a $98, no thank you. I really like my ZA13, just wanted to check the 12 to make sure.

Has this type of pricing happened before with new Zowie mice?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> No kidding. I purchased my ZA13 for $65 (forgot what I paid for shipping) and was going to pick up a ZA12 to try. Which ever I liked best I would sell the other or pass on to family, but at $82 with $15.60 sipping that's a $98, no thank you. I really like my ZA13, just wanted to check the 12 to make sure.
> 
> Has this type of pricing happened before with new Zowie mice?


When they do a deal with a new retailer the price is usually above $60 and those retailers don't give free shipping. I wait until Amazon has them.


----------



## duydangle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> really like my za13.
> 
> wish the scroll wheel was a bit better though.


How do you feel about the scroll wheel. I think I will buy za13 but if it was bad as fk1 then I think I will keep my kinzu. I bhop a lot and use mouse wheel to jump.


----------



## Crizzl

Anyone that liked the FK2 that has tried the ZA13? If yes, what did you think of it?


----------



## CrimsonVertigo

For me, my fingers are 18cm, and I had initially owned the FK1, felt a bit too long for me and so sold it off.

Got the FK2 and my fingers actually extended slightly over the buttons, so my ideal mouse length is between that of FK1 and FK2.

Got the ZA12 instead of the ZA13, and I'm glad I did as the length of the ZA12 is just nice for me; as some had replied me earlier that I should get a ZA13 for similar fit of FK2, however, I was actually looking for a 'bigger' mouse..


----------



## mksteez

have a question for someone who owns an EC-2a. Does the ZA series feel better ? Thinking of getting a ZA13 or 12.

FK1 used to be my daily driver but the clicks were too stiff and moved on to a KPM, now im looking for something slightly larger than the KPM and ZA12 looks very ideal. Hopefully amazon prime will have them in stock soon! Wonder why its taking so long though!


----------



## argentum

Much better. I owned FK2 at the time EC2-A arrived, even that was better than EC. FK2 was too small for my tast though, so I sold both of these mice and bought ZA11, which is my favourite Zowie mouse now.


----------



## ZeBodscha

A shame that Zowie still couldn't figure out the issues with the mouse wheel in all the time being.







Seems to be quite expensive here, as well. Nonetheless might give the ZA a try, since there's still nothing alike in the industry right now afaik...


----------



## emilyheskey

scrolled on itself a couple times now in the middle of a cs game. if it does it 1 more time i'm sending it back.


----------



## LegoFarmer

So I know European players won't care, but Hiko is using the ZA13 now


----------



## Maximillion

Didn't Hiko say he was done w/ Zowie awhile back


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Didn't Hiko say he was done w/ Zowie awhile back


Not sure. He said he likes the ZA13 even though a side-button is broken. He is getting a new one, though. He didn't specify what button was broken, so for all I know, he might be thinking the buttons on the right are broken because only one side can be functional.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Didn't Hiko say he was done w/ Zowie awhile back


Hiko also wants a player union (so do I) so that players can have more freedom and choice in their work, one example is not forcing players to use sponsored equipment, and let them use what they want. If I can I'll make an effort to help him in that journey, it's absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous that just because your team organization has a Steelseries sponsorship, that you're forced to use their awful mice. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of the ZA mouse


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Hiko also wants a player union (so do I) so that players can have more freedom and choice in their work, one example is not forcing players to use sponsored equipment, and let them use what they want. If I can I'll make an effort to help him in that journey, it's absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous that just because your team organization has a Steelseries sponsorship, that you're forced to use their awful mice. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of the ZA mouse


He said he likes it a lot despite the broken button, and I like mine, as well. I would support the player union because I also think that being forced to use certain equipment sucks... Like with razer, the only viable option is the DA and not everybody likes the shape. Then the g303 by logitech... Lol


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> So I know European players won't care, but Hiko is using the ZA13 now


i'm sure many do care since he has tried a lot of mice and AFAIK nihilum doesn't have a mouse sponsor so he isn't forced into using anything, good to know bud.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> i'm sure many do care since he has tried a lot of mice and AFAIK nihilum doesn't have a mouse sponsor so he isn't forced into using anything, good to know bud.


Lol he brought that up







He said "Yeah, I've used it for a while and I like it, but 'a while' for me is like... A week" haha. I know he's used the g100s, g402 in c9 days and probably g400s, used the ec2 evo, ec2-a, fk1, and now za13 and probably some others. I tend to notice that when a team doesn't have a mouse sponsor, they normally use zowie mice.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Lol he brought that up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He said "Yeah, I've used it for a while and I like it, but 'a while' for me is like... A week" haha. I know he's used the g100s, g402 in c9 days and probably g400s, used the ec2 evo, ec2-a, fk1, and now za13 and probably some others. I tend to notice that when a team doesn't have a mouse sponsor, they normally use zowie mice.


That and Microsoft mice too, but not now since tournament PC's use at least Windows 8, you're just shooting yourself in the foot if you use it. Quake also, the second top players like Cypher weren't required to use a sponsors peripherals, he was rocking a WMO like he used to.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Hiko also wants a player union (so do I) so that players can have more freedom and choice in their work, one example is not forcing players to use sponsored equipment, and let them use what they want. If I can I'll make an effort to help him in that journey, it's absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous that just because your team organization has a Steelseries sponsorship, that you're forced to use their awful mice. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of the ZA mouse


Well from the recent dream hack tournament many of the players weren't using their sponsor's mice. Titan is supposed to be razer and their page probably claims that they all use deathadders or something but many were using Zowie mice. The same can be said for Navi, some were using Zowie mice even though their page claims that they all use the Sensei raw.


----------



## cadger

Some players really just don't care though. Off of Titan alone I know Maniac has the Sensei RAW and Ex6TenZ uses the Razer Taipan.


----------



## Aventadoor

Been using ZA11 since it came out basicly. Best mouse ive had so far.
Obviously it could be better if it was wider, but other then that its good enough for now.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Ok so I'm using an FK2 at the moment, and it's a great mouse besides the fact that it feels too flat for my palm to comfortable grip, the ZA series should be perfect then right? Also, where can I find the ZA13 for cheaper than $75 like it is on Amazon?


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Ok so I'm using an FK2 at the moment, and it's a great mouse besides the fact that it feels too flat for my palm to comfortable grip, the ZA series should be perfect then right? Also, where can I find the ZA13 for cheaper than $75 like it is on Amazon?


Just got my ZA11 from them yesterday. Shipping was sort of slow. Another user also said they don't allow open box returns.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MOS-ZA13&c=FR&pid=21492dab13e4dcc46ed1d4037a044244d7a6e3641714d800b523ce40d74ca6e4&gclid=Cj0KEQjwkv-rBRDwoMLav-2l9KIBEiQAUTkDUwbUpka_K3MbMqmuWCm7rRL-1L1U8LODvINF-YfRbokaAnb68P8HAQ


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Well from the recent dream hack tournament many of the players weren't using their sponsor's mice. Titan is supposed to be razer and their page probably claims that they all use deathadders or something but many were using Zowie mice. The same can be said for Navi, some were using Zowie mice even though their page claims that they all use the Sensei raw.


It seems like many players tried out the new 3310 mice from Zowie when they came out. The EC appears to be more popular than the FK. Right now 3 of the NiP players are using the EC. I won't be surprised to see the ZA becoming more popular than the FK.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Hiko also wants a player union (so do I) so that players can have more freedom and choice in their work, one example is not forcing players to use sponsored equipment, and let them use what they want. If I can I'll make an effort to help him in that journey, it's absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous that just because your team organization has a Steelseries sponsorship, that you're forced to use their awful mice. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of the ZA mouse


You want to get paid to play? Then use your sponsors products, so they can earn some profit to pay you. Don't like their products? Then try very hard to get them to design something to your liking -- that is if you are good at selling their products.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It seems like many players tried out the new 3310 mice from Zowie when they came out. The EC appears to be more popular than the FK. Right now 3 of the NiP players are using the EC. I won't be surprised to see the ZA becoming more popular than the FK.
> You want to get paid to play? Then use your sponsors products, so they can earn some profit to pay you. Don't like their products? Then try very hard to get them to design something to your liking -- that is if you are good at selling their products.


Lol NiP using the EC series to have the power of HeatoN!


----------



## mksteez

Cant decide between za12 or za13! wish it was on amazon prime


----------



## NicoNicoNii

How does the ZA13 shape compared to the G100s?


----------



## ZeBodscha

I always thought I was using a mix between Palm and Claw. Turns out that the huge ass on the ZA11 feels really awkward in my hand and it just feels wrong for me. Guess I like the FK1 more, even though its shape could be a little bit wider in the center and the faulty MWHEEL and mouse button delay are kinda awkward. Could anyone PM me a few other mice I should try out that have an ambidextrous shape for clawing, that have a quite raw sensor (minimal smoothing, no accel) and are relatively light? I actually liked the Sensei shape a lot, but I didn't dare to put my hands on any laser mice yet and the technical properties didn't really seem to suit as well.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> How does the ZA13 shape compared to the G100s?


Well, they're massively different. Can't really compare them tbh.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeBodscha*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought I was using a mix between Palm and Claw. Turns out that the huge ass on the ZA11 feels really awkward in my hand and it just feels wrong for me. Guess I like the FK1 more, even though its shape could be a little bit wider in the center and the faulty MWHEEL and mouse button delay are kinda awkward. Could anyone PM me a few other mice I should try out that have an ambidextrous shape for clawing, that have a quite raw sensor (minimal smoothing, no accel) and are relatively light? I actually liked the Sensei shape a lot, but I didn't dare to put my hands on any laser mice yet and the technical properties didn't really seem to suit as well.


It's not an ambi, but the FinalMouse has one of the top3 sensors and is the lightest and overall best choice out of the top3 (mlt04, DA2013, FM).


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's not an ambi, but the FinalMouse has one of the top3 sensors and is the lightest and overall best choice out of the top3 (mlt04, DA2013, FM).


That is YOUR opinion though.

There is nothing "top" about the Finalmouse to me, especially considering the build quality issues and the smoothing. They wanna try to deliver a smoothing free firmware, but looking at Mionix's promise before for a smoothing free firmware, I have my doubts and only believe it when it is actually released. The quality issues seem to be still present though which is getting kinda ridiculous.

Recommending MLT04 mice is only possible for high sens users and ppl that are sticking with Windows 7.

If you can cope with the DA shape it might be worth a try. I find the DA shape horrible and worse than the G303 shape. Also the main buttons on DAs still manage to fail relatively quickly.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> That is YOUR opinion though.
> 
> There is nothing "top" about the Finalmouse to me, especially considering the build quality issues and the smoothing. They wanna try to deliver a smoothing free firmware, but looking at Mionix's promise before for a smoothing free firmware, I have my doubts and only believe it when it is actually released. The quality issues seem to be still present though which is getting kinda ridiculous.


Exactly







. I do NOT recommend buying FM knowing there are plenty of people complaining about it. It's a very cheap, weak and unstable mouse for that amount of money.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's not an ambi, but the FinalMouse has one of the top3 sensors and is the lightest and overall best choice out of the top3 (mlt04, DA2013, FM).


imo, if the sensor is as good as you say, it's more of a fluke than anything (i.e. they got lucky by picking the right chinese factory). from what i've seen in studying the mouse, it really isnt particularly well designed and really doesnt give the impression that a lot of thought was put into it. and i hate to say this but jude's posts on this forum (even from before the whole smoothing thing that i found) have made me seriously doubt their technical competence. anyway theyre still a newish company and at least theyre reasonably responsive to feedback, but i think we give them too much credit for "their sensor".


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> That is YOUR opinion though.
> 
> There is nothing "top" about the Finalmouse to me, especially considering the build quality issues and the smoothing. They wanna try to deliver a smoothing free firmware, but looking at Mionix's promise before for a smoothing free firmware, I have my doubts and only believe it when it is actually released. The quality issues seem to be still present though which is getting kinda ridiculous.
> 
> Recommending MLT04 mice is only possible for high sens users and ppl that are sticking with Windows 7.
> 
> If you can cope with the DA shape it might be worth a try. I find the DA shape horrible and worse than the G303 shape. Also the main buttons on DAs still manage to fail relatively quickly.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I do NOT recommend buying FM knowing there are plenty of people complaining about it. It's a very cheap, weak and unstable mouse for that amount of money.


I agree on the issues with build quality, but the sensor IS one of the top 3. And saying the FM has smoothing is very misleading. When people say smoothing they're referring to the feeling of the cursor movement being smoothed out. They're not talking about the technical aspect that qsxcv found.

Also, they send out free replacements for any issues a person has, so getting one with a problem is only a minor inconvenience.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> imo, if the sensor is as good as you say, it's more of a fluke than anything (i.e. they got lucky by picking the right chinese factory). from what i've seen in studying the mouse, it really isnt particularly well designed and really doesnt give the impression that a lot of thought was put into it. and i hate to say this but jude's posts on this forum (even from before the whole smoothing thing that i found) have made me seriously doubt their technical competence. anyway theyre still a newish company and at least theyre reasonably responsive to feedback, but i think we give them too much credit for "their sensor".


Sure, it's plausible that they accidentally created one of the top performing sensors by not adding things that every other company adds that ruins sensor performance, but either way it's a very good sensor.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> but the sensor IS one of the top 3.


in your opinion. and yea perhaps other people's opinion as well. you gotta understand that not everyone cares as much
Quote:


> They're not talking about the technical aspect that qsxcv found.


well if you dont want to call it smoothing, call it "filtering that smooths out the data from the sensor by averaging with older data"








actually i don't even know what to call it as it is completely unnecessary and serves no purpose. Jude calls it "noise control" which doesn't really make sense since there's not much noise to begin with... maybe it's an euphemism since the word "smoothing" has such negative connotations, or maybe it's what was written in the code comments by whomever wrote the firmware (hint: 90% sure not finalmouse guys or i wouldn't have had to spent like 2 days reverse engineering the algorithm and explaining to him what was going on







)

this is perhaps arguing semantics, but i don't agree that smoothing refers to a feeling. afaik it's an algorithm within the sensor dsp that is used to achieve the effect of reducing jitter. for example when logitech says that the g302 has no smoothing below 2000dpi and <1ms smoothing at and above 2080dpi, they're not talking about people will feel, but about the fact that the dsp uses the smoothing algorithm when the dpi is set to 2080 or above. now if someone feels that a mouse is unresponsive, imprecise, laggy or whatever, that's okay and perhaps it's due to smoothing, perhaps it's due to something else, but smoothing should not be used as an umbrella term for people's perceptions. one may say "this mouse feels like it has smoothing", but saying "this mouse has smoothing because i feel that it is laggy" is really unjustified.

also popups suggested that 3310 has smoothing but we have no hard evidence








http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1530#post_24001165
but even then it's possible finalmouse got a version of the srom from pixart that has no smoothing so who knows


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Yeah, people use the term "smoothing" for completely different things, which is why I'm trying to keep it at its original use, which was describing the feeling of cursor movement being smoothed out. Filtering seems like a good term for what you found.


----------



## emilyheskey

can i put my zowie fk 13 scroll wheel in my Zowie za 13??????

i reallly dont like the scroll in this otherwise perfect mouse


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> can i put my zowie fk 13 scroll wheel in my Zowie za 13??????
> 
> i reallly dont like the scroll in this otherwise perfect mouse


You should be able to. I think the scroll wheels are identical.

~

Also, just an interesting tidbit for anyone who cares:



This is the Logitech MX310. I've had one of these for a while, but I never really used it much until I noticed recently how much of a hump it has in the back. It's similar to the ZA series in this regard, but what I noticed about it is that, because of the thinness of the hump, it fills in my palm a lot better while still giving me a ton of control over the mouse. It also has a lip that extends past the buttons, which helps me with microcorrecting and keeps my fingers from hanging over the edges. Kind of stupid of me to have never really tested this mouse out further, because it's just been sitting around my room and the shape is exactly what I was looking for in the ZA mice. Ambidextrous with great palm support and excellent control. Only real complaints are the sensor performance when swiping quickly (malfunctions pretty quickly) and the fact that it isn't being made anymore. I'd also like to see the scroll wheel and side buttons moved a bit farther forward, but it hasn't been an issue for me yet.

So if anyone here is looking for a lot of feedback in the palm similar to the ZA series but are worried about losing control as a result (depending on your grip, mileage may vary ofc), I'd highly recommend this. The shape is great and it's very lightweight. I'd love to see a refined iteration of it in the future from Logitech.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You want to get paid to play? Then use your sponsors products, so they can earn some profit to pay you. Don't like their products? Then try very hard to get them to design something to your liking -- that is if you are good at selling their products.


except the money from those sponsorships is minor compared to everything else they earn, like Twitch income and prize money. Yes a part of the salary they get from the team includes that sponsors money, overall it's about brand exposure. Other sports don't force you to use a specific companies product unless you peruse your own personal sponsorships (like a golfer would). Players should be allowed to perform at their peak, which should include using the equipment they want. The idea that you must use crappy hardware to make money in e-sports is ridiculous, that money is minimal in the bigger picture


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> also popups suggested that 3310 has smoothing but we have no hard evidence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1530#post_24001165
> but even then it's possible finalmouse got a version of the srom from pixart that has no smoothing so who knows


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I'm not hinting at anything. The statement that we chose the sensor from the G100s as our base due to its good performance in almost every respect except for speed is really the reason. *We reviewed the available options and went with the one we thought made the most sense based on all the information we have available to us. Zero smoothing at low CPI values is one of the criteria that made it very appealing.*


----------



## qsxcv

doesnt necessarily mean that the other options are unable to have no smoothing for low dpi as well. but maybe those ones are too expensive for what they wanted? who knows


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> doesnt necessarily mean that the other options are unable to have no smoothing for low dpi as well. but maybe those ones are too expensive for what they wanted? who knows


From what I can tell, the 3310 doesn't get the same level of attention as the 3988/3989 [Razer], 3366 [Logitech] and AM010 [Logitech]. The 3310 is a non exclusive offering, much like the 3090. Exclusive offerings have advantages.

Of course PixArt could make the 3310 behave similar to the AM010 or 3366. How do they make more money that way?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yeah, people use the term "smoothing" for completely different things, which is why I'm trying to keep it at its original use, which was describing the feeling of cursor movement being smoothed out. Filtering seems like a good term for what you found.


Are we calling any data manipulation "filtering" now? This is what Logitech calls it?


----------



## povohat

The rolling average seen in the finalmouse firmware behaves much like a low-pass filter. I wouldn't suggest calling every form of count manipulation filtering though.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I can tell, the 3310 doesn't get the same level of attention as the 3988/3989 [Razer], 3366 [Logitech] and AM010 [Logitech]. The 3310 is a non exclusive offering, much like the 3090. Exclusive offerings have advantages.
> 
> Of course PixArt could make the 3310 behave similar to the AM010 or 3366. How do they make more money that way?


My guess is, Razer and Logitech pay lot's of $$$ to PixArt for their own exclusive sensors. As you said, advantages and stuff.

3310 is good enough for everyone else. Having it better would make 3366, AM010 and 3988/9 exclusivity kinda pointless.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> The rolling average seen in the finalmouse firmware behaves much like a low-pass filter. I wouldn't suggest calling every form of count manipulation filtering though.


I understand what you're saying, like extrapolation, interpolation, and whatever should not be called filtering...


----------



## treav0r

Can somebody explain, why the 3310 feels more accurate and responsive when using thicker/stacked feet? might have something to do with sensor/lens focus


----------



## qsxcv

for which mouse?
could be that whoever made the mouse didn't set the sensor/lens to the optimal height when designing


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for which mouse?
> could be that whoever made the mouse didn't set the sensor/lens to the optimal height when designing


zowie za11 and fk1. tracking with stock feet feels like it might be failing to recocnize movements from very low speeds. maybe the extra height allows the sensor to "read" a bigger area and reduce the motion error?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> zowie za11 and fk1. tracking with stock feet feels like it might be failing to recocnize movements from very low speeds. maybe the extra height allows the sensor to "read" a bigger area and reduce the motion error?


Zowie use very thin mouse feet. I don't know if they set the 3310 to the proper height within the shell to compensate for the difference.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> maybe the extra height allows the sensor to "read" a bigger area and reduce the motion error?


no, image focus is much more important.

but that's weird... could be either poor design or your particular mouse being weird


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no, image focus is much more important.
> 
> but that's weird... could be either poor design or your particular mouse being weird


rather unlikely, because i had 2 fk1's and 2 za11's (1 fk1 rma'd, 1 za11 broken (i tried to mod the switches, but horribly butchered the mouse xD)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> The idea that you must use crappy hardware to make money in e-sports is ridiculous, that money is minimal in the bigger picture


Look at xizt. He was the worst player on nip for a while, then he changed his mouse and now he's wrecking it up.


----------



## qsxcv

heh interesting. from which to which?


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> heh interesting. from which to which?


Believe he went from an Ikari Optical to EC2-A. I was in his stream when he told everyone how awful the Ikari Optical was. Claimed the only reason he used it for so long after NiP's contract with Steelseries expired was just because he was used to it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I know in 1.6 he used a 3.0 and then switched back to the 3.0 at some point recently, not sure what he's using atm though. His facebook says ikari optical. The nip site doesn't say which mouse http://nip.gl/profile/Xizt

It's interesting to see him say the ikari is trash. When I tested it I felt it was one of the worst mice I'd ever used. But then one of the #1 aimers in the world was using it... MODDII


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I know in 1.6 he used a 3.0 and then switched back to the 3.0 at some point recently, not sure what he's using atm though. His facebook says ikari optical. The nip site doesn't say which mouse http://nip.gl/profile/Xizt
> 
> It's interesting to see him say the ikari is trash. When I tested it I felt it was one of the worst mice I'd ever used. But then one of the #1 aimers in the world was using it... MODDII


If I remember it right Xizt was using Ikari then 3.0 and then back to Ikari. Now he is using EC1 or 2, probably EC1. Moddii was using the laser Ikari though?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Look at xizt. He was the worst player on nip for a while, then he changed his mouse and now he's wrecking it up.


what did he go from and to? there's always exceptions to the rule, most players go from a mouse they like to something they don't like just because of the contracts used for the sponsorships. That's why I hope Hiko and others can get the ball rolling on the player unions, players have had enough (fps players at least) of being forced to use crappy hardware


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> except the money from those sponsorships is minor compared to everything else they earn, like Twitch income and prize money. Yes a part of the salary they get from the team includes that sponsors money, overall it's about brand exposure. Other sports don't force you to use a specific companies product unless you peruse your own personal sponsorships (like a golfer would). Players should be allowed to perform at their peak, which should include using the equipment they want. The idea that you must use crappy hardware to make money in e-sports is ridiculous, that money is minimal in the bigger picture


Twitch income isn't a given. A few pros rely on Twitch money to sustain them. Even if they do stream it's not often because they have to practice. Twitch is "icing on the cake."

Professional gaming heavily relies on marketing budgets. Most pro's income is (indirectly) from companies like Razer, BenQ, etc. So if you are an employee of a gaming organization you have to "market" the stuff from the partners of that organization. If you don't like those companies don't join that gaming organization or you have to negotiate something with the organization and their partners. Being that a gaming organization is built by someone else, and you are their employee, you have to have a lot of followers to get what you want. Otherwise, you are going to have to build your own company/sponsorship/endorsements as a private contractor.

I am not sure if GO players are considered employee specifically. If they are not classified as an employee they should be able to use what they want.

Every pro knows that you cannot live off prize money. It's not as much as people think, it isn't sent in a timely manner, it might be sent in installments and sometimes it never gets paid out.






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Look at xizt. He was the worst player on nip for a while, then he changed his mouse and now he's wrecking **** up.


Xizt switched to an EC-A from an Ikari (he might be trying the ZA now). Get Right and Friberg are using the Rival. Forest and Allu are using the EC-A.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I've recently seen him with the EC2-A.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I've recently seen him with the EC2-A.


Sure about that? Why not EC1-A? AFAIK allu usese EC1 (-A or eVo).


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Sure about that? Why not EC1-A? AFAIK allu usese EC1 (-A or eVo).


Most use the EC2, so I assumed. Max said he was a 3.0 user, so it could very well be the EC1-A.


----------



## ForzaStellaris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Look at xizt. He was the worst player on nip for a while, then he changed his mouse and now he's wrecking it up.


xizt recently gave up his role as IGL. Hence the rekting I would say. As many already has pointed out the ZA-series should've been a little bit wider and the hump further forward. Would have bought it if so.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ForzaStellaris*
> 
> As many already has pointed out the ZA-series should've been a little bit wider and the hump further forward. Would have bought it if so.


If the apex was at the center the arch would have to be identical to the Intellimouse Optical. If the apex is towards the rear the shape can be like the Diamondback or G302/3. If the arch is like the Intellimouse Optical the mouse would have to be very large (and heavier). If the arch is like the Diamondback or G302/3 the mouse can be a smaller and lighter.

I like more of a Diamondback shape that supports my palm, allows me to have a lot of contact with the mouse pad and has a tall front for better button control.


----------



## emilyheskey

xizt was actually using the za13 on stream a couple weeks ago


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> xizt was actually using the za13 on stream a couple weeks ago


DreamHack Open Summer 2015 [June]

http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6833-full/1434373533.9098.jpeg
http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6831-full/1434301833.5431.jpeg
http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6831-full/1434321859.4178.jpeg
http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6831-full/1434301782.4351.jpeg


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> DreamHack Open Summer 2015 [June]
> 
> http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6833-full/1434373533.9098.jpeg
> http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6831-full/1434301833.5431.jpeg
> http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6831-full/1434321859.4178.jpeg
> http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/6831-full/1434301782.4351.jpeg


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit#gid=1762004852 many lists like this but this is the only one i found that's actually atleast a bit up-to-date on most players instead of listing something off their twitch page that they haven't updated in 2 years. Was very sad to find no one using the lg 24gm77 monitor. Benq does sponsor like 80% of the teams though, haha. Also quite surprised that so few people are using zowie ZAs. But that could be because it hasn't been out long enough for everyone to update their info. I know byali uses a za13, kioshima za 12, steel (the banned one, rip) a za11 and Hiko has been trying out a za13, but he changes mice as frequently as socks


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit#gid=1762004852 many lists like this but this is the only one i found that's actually atleast a bit up-to-date on most players instead of listing something off their twitch page that they haven't updated in 2 years. Was very sad to find no one using the lg 24gm77 monitor. Benq does sponsor like 80% of the teams though, haha. Also quite surprised that so few people are using zowie ZAs. But that could be because it hasn't been out long enough for everyone to update their info. I know byali uses a za13, kioshima za 12, steel (the banned one, rip) a za11 and Hiko has been trying out a za13, but he changes mice as frequently as socks


There isn't many ZA mice out there currently. It can simply being a lack of supply.

Considering what I know about pro GO players, I think many of them will try out the ZA and it might become more popular than the EC mice.

If players want to build a following they should keep updating their gear and config information. It's no surprise these young guys don't understand how to build a brand.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There isn't many ZA mice out there currently. It can simply being a lack of supply.
> 
> Considering what I know about pro GO players, I think many of them will try out the ZA and it might become more popular than the EC mice.
> 
> If players want to build a following they should keep updating their gear and config information. It's no surprise these young guys don't understand how to build a brand.


i'm sure many of them really have no idea about peripherals, pc parts, etc. (Also evidenced by certain players being absolutely incapable of fixing their ddos issues, but that can be tricky in certain countries with certain isps so whatever). But if you are a pro, why the hell would you not care about your mouse for example, since you're using it like at least 8 hours a day... Not to mention trying to build some sort of fanbase that allows organisations to notice and pick you up or allows you to have some casting/analyst gig if you ever retire. Oh well. If i heard some new mouse is announced and i already use one of their older ones i would be all over it to try it out, especially since they probably can get them for free.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> Oh well. If i heard some new mouse is announced and i already use one of their older ones i would be all over it to try it out, especially since they probably can get them for free.


Well, when you switch to a new mouse you will likely need an adaptation period. These days GO teams have a lot of matches and tournaments back to back, there isn't enough time to change.


----------



## Solrial

I love Sensei, I like FK1 but I hope it is a bit bigger. I heard the closest to Sensei is ZA12 but from a dimension maybe I should go with 11.

So, which mouse should I buy between ZA11 and 12?


----------



## exitone

There's still quite a few cs players still using the first gen fk and ec1 evo CL . they know less than you think and the performance when using the 3310 compared to the 3090 is tiny.


----------



## Solrial

Well I end up bought ZA12. Overall I like it, I would prefer if it's a little more wider but I'm glad I didn't buy ZA11. If it's longer and taller than this I would not like it. Still need more time before I can give a conclusion though. The mouse give me a feeling of ambidextrous Rival that's shorter and lighter. I don't have a problem hybrid claw-palm it with my 19.5 cm hands.


----------



## emilyheskey

anybody else getting random scrolls?

ffs do i need to RMA or shall i open it up and put my original FK wheel in there.


----------



## detto87

Sadly random scrolls are the norm on Zowie's wheels.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emilyheskey*
> 
> anybody else getting random scrolls?
> 
> ffs do i need to RMA or shall i open it up and put my original FK wheel in there.


That might help. You probably stop scrolling in the middle of a notch and then eventually, it resolves and scrolls for you making it seem random/accidental. Happens to other mice like the WMO and IE 3.0. I haven't had issues with these, though.


----------



## ncck

so how are fk1 users liking the za series?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> so how are fk1 users liking the za series?


Love it. Its just a more comfortable FK1 for me. Not as big of a change as I thought it was going to be and certainly nothing that would effect my performance in game. But its a nice side grade for me.


----------



## MkII

Hi everybody!

I need a new mouse and I would love to see your recommendation about it as I'm inclined for Zowie.

Right now I can't decide between the FK1, FK2; ZA11, ZA12 or ZA13 or the EC1-A and EC2-A ??

I'm coming from a G9x that I'm currently using and love but now looking for a pure optical mouse and "without" rubbery/rubberized coatings that I particularly hate (looking at you Razer tongue.gif )

Besides I've had in the past a: Naos 7000, G502, G602, G9x (I'm using) , Orochi, MS Comfort Mouse 6000, Deathadder (from 2006), MX Revolution aaand a MS IntelliMouse Optical 1.1a

So I would really appreciate if someone can give me a their opinion in which Zowie mouse I should I place my order..

Thank you!

PS: Sometimes I regret I've sold the G502 and would try to place the g502 PCB into my G9x shell biggrin.gif


----------



## Arizonian

Quick drop in to say I've purchased the ZA12 and have had some with it. I gave my thoughts *HERE* if you'd like to read and drink a glass of kool aid.









In short, I went from liking the ZA13 to loving the ZA12.


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Quick drop in to say I've purchased the ZA12 and have had some with it. I gave my thoughts *HERE* if you'd like to read and drink a glass of kool aid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short, I went from liking the ZA13 to loving the ZA12.


Where did you purchase your ZA12? and how are the side buttons? I tried an EC2-A and the side buttons are horrible, way too mushy and lots of travel


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Where did you purchase your ZA12? and how are the side buttons? I tried an EC2-A and the side buttons are horrible, way too mushy and lots of travel


Newegg through third party, Etronix. Expensive even for me at $82, shipping + tax. Big difference from five weeks ago when I picked up ZA13 for $65 usd.

EDIT - Sorry missed your second question. The side buttons are distinctive, light but not light enough that I can't hold my thumb over and accidently depress it. On my 13 which is smaller my fingers would sometimes hit the side buttons since they are placed a bit more forward.

EDIT - strikethrough - "Feel like its placed more forward because my hand was a tad to big for the mouse".


----------



## frewp

So since this mouse has been out for a long time now, how is the ZA13 for clawing? I have an FK1 and was thinking of buying FK2 for it's lighter weight and overall just smaller length/width, but the ZA13 is even smaller which is nice but there is a bump for palming. Anyone buy this mouse for clawing? What do you think about it?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> So since this mouse has been out for a long time now, how is the ZA13 for clawing? I have an FK1 and was thinking of buying FK2 for it's lighter weight and overall just smaller length/width, but the ZA13 is even smaller which is nice but there is a bump for palming. Anyone buy this mouse for clawing? What do you think about it?


Depends on your style of claw. If you're the type of claw gripper that likes having the mouse's rear contacting a lot of your palm then you may really enjoy it. Some really dislike that though and prefer the lower profile of the FK line. Also, don't be fooled by the dimensions. The ZA13 may be shorter on an absolute level, but in practice it doesn't actually feel any smaller than an FK2 in my opinion. The butt creates a longer arc length for the top of the mouse, as well as changes how your hand is sitting. It feels roughly the same size as the FK2 to me.

I'm in the claw camp that likes the shape, though I do wish the mouse were wider. For reference, I'm a huge fan of stuff like the G9X. I like the FK line well enough, but I do feel there's not enough substance in the back. If you think that there's enough junk in the trunk with the FK, or rather don't want any more, the ZA might not be for you.


----------



## Ragsters

Im looking into getting a za13 for my son's 9th b-day but cant find one for a decent price. Is there an alternative gaming mouse with a small footprint like the za13?


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Im looking into getting a za13 for my son's 9th b-day but cant find one for a decent price. Is there an alternative gaming mouse with a small footprint like the za13?


Evga X5, g100s, kinzu, lua, KPM, krait 2013.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Im looking into getting a za13 for my son's 9th b-day but cant find one for a decent price. Is there an alternative gaming mouse with a small footprint like the za13?


G100s and Lua should be easy to find locally. Also, you get a father of the year nomination


----------



## M1st

Also i would suggest staying away from mice with hard clicks for a 9 y.o.


----------



## Maximillion

He should get his son a G302/3 so we can get a pure-minded and unbiased opinion on that oh so controversial shape


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> He should get his son a G302/3 so we can get a pure-minded and unbiased opinion on that oh so controversial shape


YES!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> He should get his son a G302/3 so we can get a pure-minded and unbiased opinion on that oh so controversial shape


I already gave an unbiased opinion on the G303.

I would advise against giving his son a G302 or G303 because it might lead to an injury.

A G100S is a decent option. It's not flashy though.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I would advise against giving his son a G302 or G303 because it might lead to an injury.


----------



## Ragsters

Please no logitech guys.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Please no logitech guys.

































The ZA13 is the best choice for him, but again you never know what he'll like to use.

Buying a mouse for someone is risky at best because everyone has their way of using it and they might find a mouse you would actually despise.


----------



## detto87

G303 has lights though!


----------



## Ragsters

Thanks for all your help guys on finding a mouse for my son. I have decided on a Zowie Mico. Well actually its the Monoprice version of the mouse.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=114&cp_id=11401&cs_id=1140101&p_id=10231&seq=1&format=2

Paid $7 on ebay new!


----------



## Venrar

The stiffer clicks make it harder to play certain heroes in DotA.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Thanks for all your help guys on finding a mouse for my son. I have decided on a Zowie Mico. Well actually its the Monoprice version of the mouse.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=114&cp_id=11401&cs_id=1140101&p_id=10231&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Paid $7 on ebay new!


*** they have mico's in stock now? I was searching for one a few months ago and couldn't find any place that sold them. I don't get paid til the 13th though so they might be out


----------



## qsxcv

is the mico cable similar to other zowie cables?


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> *** they have mico's in stock now? I was searching for one a few months ago and couldn't find any place that sold them. I don't get paid til the 13th though so they might be out


Get it from ebay. Its less than $7.


----------



## treav0r

Fk 2013 - za11 pcb - za11 wheel with yellow rubber from fk, sidebutton pcb from za11 aswell


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> Fk 2013 - za11 pcb - za11 wheel with yellow rubber from fk, sidebutton pcb from za11 aswell


That's the HOTTEST looking ZA11 seen yet, love the robust FK salute here







.


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> That's the HOTTEST looking ZA11 seen yet, love the robust FK salute here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


these sidebuttons are so crisp :> the wheel is not rattling at all with smooth steps, awesome rubber coating. no i need to order more hyperglides


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> these sidebuttons are so crisp :> the wheel is not rattling at all with smooth steps, awesome rubber coating. no i need to order more hyperglides


YES, the Hyperglides take this mouse into a higher plain of existence.

It's like playing with the hand of God within any Game, that you choose to engage in







.


----------



## daunow

Can't be the only one who thinks the mouses from Zowie are a bit overpriced, right?

I am all right with not having lights on my mouses, in fact I even prefer it, but how come SS and Razer have lights in them, yet I can easily buy one for a lower price than zowies simple mouses.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Can't be the only one who thinks the mouses from Zowie are a bit overpriced, right?
> 
> I am all right with not having lights on my mouses, in fact I even prefer it, but how come SS and Razer have lights in them, yet I can easily buy one for a lower price than zowies simple mouses.


LEDs don't cost much.

Companies will sell special versions with a different LED color to make more money. It's a very simple trick on the consumers.

Zowie products are over priced for what they are, but Zowie is a small company relative to Razer, SteelSeries and Logitech. They have to sell products at higher prices because they don't sell as many.

Most people will buy mice with LEDs over mice without and they prefer to have driver software.


----------



## poet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Also, just an interesting tidbit for anyone who cares:


I actually use that one too! I am currently thinking about getting a ZA, because of it similar shape - can you compare them? I wonder which one is closest to the size of MX310.


----------



## solz

Anybody knows how i get the standard lift off distance back? cus its not listed on the zowie website, and the EC-1A and ZowieFK say diffrent things


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Anybody knows how i get the standard lift off distance back? cus its not listed on the zowie website, and the EC-1A and ZowieFK say diffrent things


From an FK1 Review
"LOD (lift off distance) is VERY low at the default setting, which is for "cloth pads". You can change the LOD to a "plastic pad" setting by:

- holding the back button on the side and right mouse button while plugging the mouse in

To set the LOD back to "cloth pad" setting:

- holding the back button on the side and left mouse button while plugging the mouse in

There is also a higher LOD, you can change to this by:

- holding the back button on the side and the left and right buttons at the same time while plugging the mouse in"


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> From an FK1 Review
> "LOD (lift off distance) is VERY low at the default setting, which is for "cloth pads". You can change the LOD to a "plastic pad" setting by:
> 
> - holding the back button on the side and right mouse button while plugging the mouse in
> 
> To set the LOD back to "cloth pad" setting:
> 
> - holding the back button on the side and left mouse button while plugging the mouse in
> 
> There is also a higher LOD, you can change to this by:
> 
> - holding the back button on the side and the left and right buttons at the same time while plugging the mouse in"


Just to add to this, I bought an FK1 from a friend recently and tried to change the LOD. When I would try any setting, it wouldn't install a correct driver, and said it failed the installation. The mouse would not turn on or light up. If I plugged it in without holding any buttons, it worked fine. I believe the settings stuck though, because the LOD did change, it was higher than usual. It's highly recommended for cloth users, at least coming from optical mice. The LOD by default is pretty low


----------



## thatgold

I haven't been able to find this information anywhere as of yet...

Can someone with the ZA11 tell me how long the mouse cable is?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Still awaiting on Amazon to have the darn mice in stock. I would like to test the za11. Come amazon.


----------



## duydangle

Just got za13 it feels pretty good. Click seems fast, no high latency. The form suits me better than my old fk1 (which is a mistake for my small hand). Based on my experience, I'd suggest using za13, or za12 only. za11 is too large for me.

I'm still getting used to it. clicks feel better than my kinzu but I performs better with kinzu. I hope I can get used to my new mouse in a short time







.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duydangle*
> 
> Just got za13 it feels pretty good. Click seems fast, no high latency. The form suits me better than my old fk1 (which is a mistake for my small hand). Based on my experience, I'd suggest using za13, or za12 only. za11 is too large for me.
> 
> I'm still getting used to it. clicks feel better than my kinzu but I performs better with kinzu. I hope I can get used to my new mouse in a short time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Curious, hand size?


----------



## duydangle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Curious, hand size?


My hand size is 18 cm/7 inches. And I think fk2 form is awesome but I prefer the new za13 due to the click feel.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duydangle*
> 
> My hand size is 18 cm/7 inches. And I think fk2 form is awesome but I prefer the new za13 due to the click feel.


I have 18cm and tried both 13 & 12. Prefer 12 where the butt end fills my hand better.

Noticed your new, welcome to OCN.


----------



## RDno1

I tried the ZA 13 some time ago and I didn't like the shape. It actually was perhaps a bit too narrow for me and the bump too far towards the back. For once, I have to agree with MaximilianKohler xD The ZA12 might suit me better since it's closer to the AM, which is okay, but I don't know if I will try it.


----------



## selka10

I used to use the SteelSeries Sensei. za12 should you do if you think ec2-a?


----------



## detto87

They should've released the ZA12 with the hump centered and 2-3mm more width overall, instead of going all bananas and releasing 3 sizes that all kinda leave something to be desired.


----------



## duydangle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I have 18cm and tried both 13 & 12. Prefer 12 where the butt end fills my hand better.
> 
> Noticed your new, welcome to OCN.


Have you tried fk2? I have not tried za12 but I think za series have indentical shape that the new butt of za series is very high, even with za13. The mouse and its shape is still very good but fk2 feels better than za13. At first last time I tried fk1, thought it was good cause everyone said that and I don't have a chance to try fk series before buying, but it's too large for my hand. fk1 is large but due to its width, not its height. I feel that za12 with the new height, although Ion said that za12 feels like fk1, will make my hand feel even more uncomfortable. I should have chosen fk2 , but I like the features from za series like the new button design (you will feel when you click za/fk side by side) and the feel of clicks.

I wish they have released a new fk3, then I will ignore everything new from za series







.

Thanks for your greetings







. I have known ocn for a long time but not posting







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I tried the ZA 13 some time ago and I didn't like the shape. It actually was perhaps a bit too narrow for me and the bump too far towards the back. For once, I have to agree with MaximilianKohler xD The ZA12 might suit me better since it's closer to the AM, which is okay, but I don't know if I will try it.


You should try fk2/za12 side by side. I'd recommend fk2.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duydangle*
> 
> Have you tried fk2? I have not tried za12 but I think za series have indentical shape that the new butt of za series is very high, even with za13. The mouse and its shape is still very good but fk2 feels better than za13. At first last time I tried fk1, thought it was good cause everyone said that and I don't have a chance to try fk series before buying, but it's too large for my hand. fk1 is large but due to its width, not its height. I feel that za12 with the new height, although Ion said that za12 feels like fk1, will make my hand feel even more uncomfortable. I should have chosen fk2 , but I like the features from za series like the new button design (you will feel when you click za/fk side by side) and the feel of clicks.
> 
> I wish they have released a new fk3, then I will ignore everything new from za series
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Thanks for your greetings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I have known ocn for a long time but not posting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


No I haven't tried any other mice from Zowie. So cannot give comparison between ZA and FK2. I do like the rear on the ZA where it is, as it's holding up bottom of palm in my hybrid claw / plam grip.


----------



## duydangle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> No I haven't tried any other mice from Zowie. So cannot give comparison between ZA and FK2. I do like the rear on the ZA where it is, as it's holding up bottom of palm in my hybrid claw / plam grip.


za series are born to improve palm grip, that's why its butt is higher than fk. And you should try fk2, it feels awesome.


----------



## Arizonian

Hyperglides arrived.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Hyperglides arrived.


They're the GOODS







.

YES the Hypers shall transform your Zowie into one hell of a mouse, it works brilliantly on both the Artisan pads and Hiro. Of course check it against other pads to feel it's movement because only you shall know that particular feeling when using your mouse.


----------



## povohat

Still waiting on the ZA13 compatible feet from hyperglide


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> Still waiting on the ZA13 compatible feet from hyperglide


Does the ZA13 use a different size? I thought Zowie purposely made all of their newer mice share the same sized feet.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Does the ZA13 use a different size? I thought Zowie purposely made all of their newer mice share the same sized feet.


I pulled my ZA13 out of the box I'm selling locally and just placed the hyperglides on top.

The bottom fits snug as a bug but the top seems a fraction off. Almost a bit over a bit. Here is a close up. Sorry it's dusty when you get close. I can't say 100% it fits but it's definitely doable.


----------



## povohat

Thanks for testing it out. I assumed that they wouldn't fit based on the announcement on the hyperglide site
Quote:


> Have received direct word from Zowie that ZA13 feet are slightly smaller and we will update once exact specifications come in


----------



## milkbreak

Is there still no place to buy these in the US that isn't overpriced as all hell?


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Hyperglides arrived.


Did you purchase them directly from Hyperglide? Want to give them a try. and did you end up stacking the mouse feet?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milkbreak*
> 
> Is there still no place to buy these in the US that isn't overpriced as all hell?


I purchased mine from ebay for $62.52 shipped


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milkbreak*
> 
> Is there still no place to buy these in the US that isn't overpriced as all hell?


eBay probably but I don't like to shop there. I paid $65 for the ZA13 and $82 for my ZA12, not including shipping or tax .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Did you purchase them directly from Hyperglide? Want to give them a try. and did you end up stacking the mouse feet?
> I purchased mine from ebay for $62.52 shipped


Amazon on this one sold by 'Titan Rig'. Pick up Corepads for Roccat mice Amazon too.

Since original feet are so thin, yes I double stacked them.


----------



## mksteez

Thanks! Just purchased them


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Thanks! Just purchased them


One thing I like better about the hyperglides is the rounded edges along the feet, as opposed to the Corepads straight edge.

Hyperglides on the mouse feels lighter now gliding.









@Elrick - yes they do feel GOOD.


----------



## milkbreak

These mice have Zowie's famous click latency or no?


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milkbreak*
> 
> These mice have Zowie's famous click latency or no?


No. It was fixed before the ZA line released.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milkbreak*
> 
> Is there still no place to buy these in the US that isn't overpriced as all hell?


Only ebay currently. $62 isn't s bad price. Still a few weeks until amazon has them in stock apparently.


----------



## LegoFarmer

https://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=673722
https://market.esea.net/index.php?s=proshop&d=product&id=382
https://market.esea.net/index.php?s=proshop&d=product&id=381
ZA11 is out of stock, but you're welcome


----------



## wmoftw

I just got some from superbiiz


----------



## altaar

http://rexflo.net/products/zowie-za-series-mouse-za-11-large?variant=1335712897 I dont think there is any shipping cost here?
* go add to cart and total stays the same


----------



## Skyval

I don't think any of those places (superbiiz, rexflow, esea, ~$62 ebay sellers) offer returns if the box is so much as opened, though. That's pretty important for me.


----------



## trriL

Will the ZA11 fill my hand better than a Zowie EC1? The EC1 is smaller than I would like and I've heard the 'hump' on the ZA mice is big.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skyval*
> 
> I don't think any of those places (superbiiz, rexflow, esea, ~$62 ebay sellers) offer returns if the box is so much as opened, though. That's pretty important for me.


Yea i was wondering the same thing.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Will the ZA11 fill my hand better than a Zowie EC1? The EC1 is smaller than I would like and I've heard the 'hump' on the ZA mice is big.


By looking at the measuremnts of both mice, I doubt it.
If the EC1 is too small, try Rival or ROG Gladius.


----------



## Sptz

For someone that likes the Rival, palm grip, would the ZA11 be a good fit? I've got pretty big hands (not fat, just big/long)


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Will the ZA11 fill my hand better than a Zowie EC1? The EC1 is smaller than I would like and I've heard the 'hump' on the ZA mice is big.


I'd say the EC1 fills the hand more then the za11


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I'd say the EC1 fills the hand more then the za11


hmm, my fingers overlap the buttons from the EC1, not from the ZA11. Thats why I like the ZA11 shape. No overlapping fingers.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*
> 
> For someone that likes the Rival, palm grip, would the ZA11 be a good fit? I've got pretty big hands (not fat, just big/long)


My za11 is on the way so i will see how it feels in comparison to my Rival Very soon.

Hopefully someone else can answer that a bit better for you until i get hands on.


----------



## daav1d

The only really bad thing about the new ZA mice imo, is the new side "lips" (don't know what to call it) in the front. And the coating is not very good either, but not a dealbreaker.


----------



## AyeOkay

Is the coating the same as the FK1 or is it different?


----------



## thatgold

I just purchased this mouse, but having some slight issues with it.

one of the left side buttons is mushy, and the rear bottom of the mouse doesn't seem to be sitting right, If i tap the bottom or pick up the mouse and put it down again it makes a clunk noise. The bottom makes a rattling noise as if its not sitting tight.

Is anyone else having this issue? If not should I be sending it back? It doesn't affect performance from what I can tell, but it feels weird and annoying.


----------



## Melan

RMA it.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Za 11 just came 10 minutes ago, gonna open it & run it for a while & see how it feels. I'll report back.


----------



## Sptz

Just got my ZA 11 today. Plugged it in, gave it a test run and compared to the Rival, it seems more "glidey" (might be due to the skates being new) but it at 400DPI and same sens as the Rival it seems a bit more "sensitive" to micro-movements, don't know how to explain.

The only thing that's bothering me is the fact that I hit the side buttons very easily with my thumb, mouse5 in particular, the rival having those buttons placed higher and being a bit bigger has an advantage regarding that, might be cause my hands are too big (they cover the whole mouse).

But yeah, not sure if I want to go through the whole process of adaptation to be honest and just keep the Rival, I wasn't expecting to be this different!


----------



## wmoftw

trying out the ZA13 at the moment, played with it a bit and warmed up with it. Felt really nice, the 80g is a dream coming from a WMO, feels very 'flicky'. The grips have a very subtle texture on them compared to the FK series, at least the top. It's perfect, very smooth but not perfectly smooth. Awesome mouse so far

btw is there an ETA on hyperglides for this? Hyperglides are a must


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Alright i have had a few solid hours with the mouse. 0 complaints thus far. Using a Rival the last 2 weeks now coming to this ZA11. The Rival is just a smidge longer but not by a whole lot.

The Za's side buttons have great placement for me & i have big ass hands, the side lip is one of my favorite things thus far. It makes lifting effortless. Scroll wheel is good, scroll click is not too hard which is great.

Sensor tracks extremely well & consistently. Gonna play with it more tonight to get an even better feel for it, the Hump is just right for me, fills up my palm perfectly.


----------



## Skyval

@wmoftw I'm currently using a WMO and have been looking at the ZA13 for some time myself. My concerns are that it will be too small for my hand, and since it seems no place with a decent price also has decent return policies, I don't want to buy it to try it.

But maybe your experiences can help me decide. I know you probably haven't used it enough yet, but just knowing your hand size and grip type would tell me if I could ever rely on your word at all. Mine are ~21cm and although I mainly fingertip, I also like to palm grip with 3 fingers on top.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skyval*
> 
> @wmoftw I'm currently using a WMO and have been looking at the ZA13 for some time myself. My concerns are that it will be too small for my hand, and since it seems no place with a decent price also has decent return policies, I don't want to buy it to try it.
> 
> But maybe your experiences can help me decide. I know you probably haven't used it enough yet, but just knowing your hand size and grip type would tell me if I could ever rely on your word at all. Mine are ~21cm and although I mainly fingertip, I also like to palm grip with 3 fingers on top.


If you are talking to me SkyVal, then mine are too 21cm,the hand size instantly rejects most mice. Lol i also palm grip exclusively. Palm the da ass, palm my mice. Hope it helps. If it didn't fill up my palm much i'd ditch it fast.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skyval*
> 
> @wmoftw I'm currently using a WMO and have been looking at the ZA13 for some time myself. My concerns are that it will be too small for my hand, and since it seems no place with a decent price also has decent return policies, I don't want to buy it to try it.
> 
> But maybe your experiences can help me decide. I know you probably haven't used it enough yet, but just knowing your hand size and grip type would tell me if I could ever rely on your word at all. Mine are ~21cm and although I mainly fingertip, I also like to palm grip with 3 fingers on top.


how do I measure my hands?

What other mice are you looking at for alternatives?


----------



## Melan

With a ruler, duh. From wrist to the top of middle finger.


----------



## Skyval

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> how do I measure my hands?
> 
> What other mice are you looking at for alternatives?


I just used a tape measure. Measured from the tip of my longest finger to the crease in my wrist.

I don't have many alternatives. I want a lightweight mouse (80g or less ideally) with side buttons, a decent shape and decent sensor. I tried the Finalmouse but didn't care for its shape. I might try an FK2 if I can't try a ZA13 with some level of confidence that I'll either like it, or be able to return it.


----------



## wmoftw

19cm then


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skyval*
> 
> I just used a tape measure. Measured from the tip of my longest finger to the crease in my wrist.
> 
> I don't have many alternatives. I want a lightweight mouse (80g or less ideally) with side buttons, a decent shape and decent sensor. I tried the Finalmouse but didn't care for its shape. I might try an FK2 if I can't try a ZA13 with some level of confidence that I'll either like it, or be able to return it.


I just bought the FM, FK2 and ZA13. Immediately the ZA13 felt lighter and the clicks were way better (easier, softer, crisper). The FM is decent but it feels big in my hand and the shape isn't my thing. I love how lightweight the 80g is, and the grip on the FK is a lot slipperier. I also tried and FK1 earlier and didn't like it that much, heavy and clicks were tough.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> 19cm then


So you should be looking at ZA12 or ZA11. The ZA12 may fit you best but 19cm may find ZA13 too small. I have 18cm and thought ZA13 just a tad too small for preference.

Don't hold me to anything.


----------



## Skyval

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> So you should be looking at ZA12 or ZA11. The ZA12 may fit you best but 19cm may find ZA13 too small. I have 18cm and thought ZA13 just a tad too small for preference.
> 
> Don't hold me to anything.


Yeah, the ZA13 being too small is what I'm afraid of, but it's the one I'm most interested in because it's also the lightest.

Do you use palm grip? If so, how many fingers do you put on top?

And wmoftw, I'm assuming you use palm grip? How many fingers do you put on top?


----------



## Arizonian

Palm and when I game a palm / hybrid claw grip, two fingers on top. Size between 13 & 12 is not as great as a jump is between 12 & 11.

12 is only 5 grams heavier than 13.

*Add*: I have no problems with ZA13 all day long and light gaming. I only experienced hand cramp after more than a couple of hours straight gaming. That's how I figured the ZA13 might be too small.


----------



## rpalmer92

Okay had my ZA11 for 5 minutes AND I FRIGGIN LOVE THIS THING!!!!

It's exactly what I was hoping for. So comfy, feels like an Intelli 1.1 and holy crap it glides so well on the G-TF Rough -- like nothing I've ever seen before. It's seriously like it's a hovercraft or something and there's air under the feet and it just glides through the air, not the surface of the pad/

I'm in love.


----------



## Sencha

The glide does get more friction as the skates wear in. If you want to keep the glide like that then grab some 1.1 / 3.0 skates. Glad your happy. I love my za11 best mouse I've used.


----------



## Sptz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> The glide does get more friction as the skates wear in. If you want to keep the glide like that then grab some 1.1 / 3.0 skates. Glad your happy. I love my za11 best mouse I've used.


You mean skates for the intellimouse?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skyval*
> 
> Yeah, the ZA13 being too small is what I'm afraid of, but it's the one I'm most interested in because it's also the lightest.
> 
> Do you use palm grip? If so, how many fingers do you put on top?
> 
> And wmoftw, I'm assuming you use palm grip? How many fingers do you put on top?


I put two fingers on top, one on each mouse button. I actually took a picture of how I held my g100s right here (ignore the red lines, I'm on the left). I do that for pretty much all mice. The back of the mouse hits my palm, my fingers don't rest on the mouse, like a claw grip.

I wouldn't worry too much about dimensions either, a lot of the top is useless to me since my fingers click an inch behind the top of the mouse. It definitely feels smaller than a WMO, it doesn't feel G100s small or anything like that. Compared to the WMO, yeah the WMO feels bigger to me, but the weight is identical and that's perfect. These mice already feel 'heavy' since a lot of the weight feels like it's in the back, it's not really evenly distributed. The FK2 felt the same way. Once you're playing you realize it's the same and for me it's really nice.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

I can't believe these are still not on Amazon (at non-gouged price).


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> I can't believe these are still not on Amazon (at non-gouged price).


I paid $65 for ZA13 on release day, gouged price of $82 for ZA12 five weeks later. I can't fathom selling my ZA13 for less than $65 so I ended up replacing an aging savu at work and now have a vey over qualified office mouse.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> I can't believe these are still not on Amazon (at non-gouged price).


Zowie sent the ZA series to every no name seller on the web for them to price gouge but there's STILL none at Amazon? Meanwhile tiny companies like Ninox and Finalmouse have no problem having their product sold by Amazon directly.

Anyone mind explaining the logic here? I can't find it.


----------



## a_ak57

It's possible they haven't sent mice to Amazon precisely for the reason that so many people are waiting for amazon: returns. Amazon and Nintendo had a beef a while back because Amazon is super lax with their return policy and they kept sending 3DS units back to Nintendo for reasons the latter didn't feel were worthy of a return. Amazon didn't want to change their policies so they stopped stocking the hardware. Maybe Zowie also got upset because people return stuff so easily on Amazon.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's possible they haven't sent mice to Amazon precisely for the reason that so many people are waiting for amazon: returns. Amazon and Nintendo had a beef a while back because Amazon is super lax with their return policy and they kept sending 3DS units back to Nintendo for reasons the latter didn't feel were worthy of a return. Amazon didn't want to change their policies so they stopped stocking the hardware. Maybe Zowie also got upset because people return stuff so easily on Amazon.


This is very likely. I also think that the fact that they sell different sizes gives people the idea to order all three and send back the ones that they don't fancy.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's possible they haven't sent mice to Amazon precisely for the reason that so many people are waiting for amazon: returns. Amazon and Nintendo had a beef a while back because Amazon is super lax with their return policy and they kept sending 3DS units back to Nintendo for reasons the latter didn't feel were worthy of a return. Amazon didn't want to change their policies so they stopped stocking the hardware. Maybe Zowie also got upset because people return stuff so easily on Amazon.


EXACTLY


----------



## wmoftw

If people are hesitant because of the FK series, don't be. This is a much better mouse all around, the clicks feel better, one version is lighter than the rest, and there is a slight texture on the mouse allowing for a much better grip (FK feels slippery in comparison).


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> If people are hesitant because of the FK series, don't be. This is a much better mouse all around, the clicks feel better, one version is lighter than the rest, and there is a slight texture on the mouse allowing for a much better grip (FK feels slippery in comparison).


I'd have to second that. The mouse clicks feel amazing to me. Nothing about this mouse so far that i have a negative word on.


----------



## Arizonian

Looks like Superbiiz selling ZA's for $65 free shipping.

http://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?s=Zowie+za


----------



## Skyval

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Looks like Superbiiz selling ZA's for $65 free shipping.
> 
> http://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?s=Zowie+za


That's been said here before, and they aren't the only one. But none of these sellers with reasonable prices offer open box returns.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skyval*
> 
> That's been said here before, and they aren't the only one. But none of these sellers with reasonable prices offer open box returns.


Ah....bummer.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's possible they haven't sent mice to Amazon precisely for the reason that so many people are waiting for amazon: returns. Amazon and Nintendo had a beef a while back because Amazon is super lax with their return policy and they kept sending 3DS units back to Nintendo for reasons the latter didn't feel were worthy of a return. Amazon didn't want to change their policies so they stopped stocking the hardware. Maybe Zowie also got upset because people return stuff so easily on Amazon.


From a huge company like Nintendo I can understand that decision because they have many other stores selling their products. This would be a terrible decision for a tiny company like Zowie who doesn't have their ZA series sold by any large retailer and those small retailers who do have it are usually selling it at higher than MSRP.


----------



## Sptz

What type of cloth or whatever are you guys using to clean this mouse? I sweat a bit when gaming, mostly during the scorching hot summer, so it does get dirty, how do you go about cleaning the casing on this one?


----------



## Sencha

Mine never gets dirty but use a damp micro fiber cloth.


----------



## falcon26

Looking to get the ZA series. I tried the ZA 13 and thought it was too small. I am currently using the deathadder. The size is OK, but haven't really gotten used to it. I use a palm claw type grip. Which ZA would be beter the ZA13 or ZA12? I have long fingers and semi big hands. My all time favorite mouse was the Logitech G9..


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Looking to get the ZA series. I tried the ZA 13 and thought it was too small. I am currently using the deathadder. The size is OK, but haven't really gotten used to it. I use a palm claw type grip. Which ZA would be beter the ZA13 or ZA12? I have long fingers and semi big hands. My all time favorite mouse was the Logitech G9..


Why would you consider getting the ZA13 when you thought it was too small?


----------



## falcon26

No I mean, I already tried the ZA13 and found it too small.


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> No I mean, I already tried the ZA13 and found it too small.


I purchased a ZA12 and installed hyperglides on it and I found out after an hour of use that this mice isn't for me. I guess I'll post it up for sale soon.


----------



## wmoftw

The ZA series should be the standard for Zowie mice. They should make FK shaped mice with the ZA shell and everything. I'd pay for an FK2 with ZA parts


----------



## milkbreak

So far I dig the shape as well but I wish the side buttons weren't there.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> The ZA series should be the standard for Zowie mice. They should make FK shaped mice with the ZA shell and everything. I'd pay for an FK2 with ZA parts


???


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> ???


1. Take ZA mouse
2. Re-shape to FK shape
3. $$$


----------



## detto87

ZA = FK shape just with raised butt.
So you're basically saying discontinue ZA mice and continue to sell FK mice.

?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> ZA = FK shape just with raised butt.
> So you're basically saying discontinue ZA mice and continue to sell FK mice.
> 
> ?


The only difference is the shell.

I don't know why he thinks anything else is different.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> ZA = FK shape just with raised butt.
> So you're basically saying discontinue ZA mice and continue to sell FK mice.
> 
> ?


FK shell is slippery compared to the ZA, the clicks are way worse too. That alone makes the FK2 horrible in comparison to a ZA mouse. There's an obvious shell difference. Plus the 80g version is a nice weight


----------



## duydangle

After weeks of using I've got to say that stock feet are very bad compared to steelseries one on my kinzu (high friction). I even double stack to see if the extra feet helps but no. So I think I will think about buy from hyperglide (but they have not offered za13 feet yet).


----------



## cryptos9099

]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duydangle*
> 
> After weeks of using I've got to say that stock feet are very bad compared to steelseries one on my kinzu (high friction). I even double stack to see if the extra feet helps but no. So I think I will think about buy from hyperglide (but they have not offered za13 feet yet).


The Hyperglides are universal for the ZA/FK/AM:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I pulled my ZA13 out of the box I'm selling locally and just placed the hyperglides on top.
> 
> The bottom fits snug as a bug but the top seems a fraction off. Almost a bit over a bit. Here is a close up. Sorry it's dusty when you get close. I can't say 100% it fits but it's definitely doable.
> 
> [/quote


----------



## goliath13

Just got my ZA12 today, and I noticed something odd about this mouse.

I'm a left handed gamer, and when the mouse is in left-handed mode - ie. the right click is now my main click, and the left is the right click. The side buttons on the right don't work, but the ones on the left do. Shouldn't it be the opposite where in left handed mode, the RIGHT side buttons should work? Maybe it's just my mouse, but i find myself accidentally pressing those side buttons on the left, quite a stupid decision to do that..


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goliath13*
> 
> Just got my ZA12 today, and I noticed something odd about this mouse.
> 
> I'm a left handed gamer, and when the mouse is in left-handed mode - ie. the right click is now my main click, and the left is the right click. The side buttons on the right don't work, but the ones on the left do. Shouldn't it be the opposite where in left handed mode, the RIGHT side buttons should work? Maybe it's just my mouse, but i find myself accidentally pressing those side buttons on the left, quite a stupid decision to do that..


Zowie uses only 5 active mouse buttons (i guess because windows recognizes mouse 1 to 5 by default, and therefore they don't have to use software to configure the other buttons, but its just a guess), so you have to choose if you use the the two extra buttons on the left, or the two on the right. Here is how you can change which of those are active: "Right handed operation is enabled out of the box and to enable the left handed mode we press the left button and scroll wheel when plugging in the mouse (right click and scroll wheel to switch back)."


----------



## tech99

I'm curious to know which one of these ZA series mouse has most resemblance to DA/Gladius shape.

Or EC1-A/EC2-A has shape more like a DA/Gladius than ZA line?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tech99*
> 
> I'm curious to know which one of these ZA series mouse has most resemblance to DA/Gladius shape.
> 
> Or EC1-A/EC2-A has shape more like a DA/Gladius than ZA line?


it's more of a mx300 or wmo shape, definitely for ambi users. someone wanting a DA shape would probably prefer something similar to the EC series or even a final mouse. I don't think a DA user will like the ambi shape or the hump, that's just me though. This mouse benefits people who like the WMO or mx300 shape (or similar).

I can't get over how awesome this mouse is. Seriously it's the best WMO replacement to date, this mouse is so good. It saved me from making a wmo-adder for myself that I'd be taking to LAN.

makes me look forward to Zowie mice more, hopefully their new hiko pad is good too.

I even bought a Zowie Camade, I'm that happy with the mouse :>


----------



## tech99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> it's more of a mx300 or wmo shape, definitely for ambi users. someone wanting a DA shape would probably prefer something similar to the EC series or even a final mouse. I don't think a DA user will like the ambi shape or the hump, that's just me though. This mouse benefits people who like the WMO or mx300 shape (or similar).
> 
> I can't get over how awesome this mouse is. Seriously it's the best WMO replacement to date, this mouse is so good. It saved me from making a wmo-adder for myself that I'd be taking to LAN.
> 
> makes me look forward to Zowie mice more, hopefully their new hiko pad is good too.
> 
> I even bought a Zowie Camade, I'm that happy with the mouse :>


So EC series is where I should be looking at for a DA shaped Zowie. Guess I'll be ordering one EC1-A real soon. TBH, I want ZA12 and EC1-A both.


----------



## AyeOkay

Got my ZA13 yesterday. After a few hours of use, I prefer it over my FK1. The FK1 fit me my hand very comfortably and naturally so I was a bit hesitant switching to a smaller mouse. Even though I have big hands, I've always performed better with smaller mice which is why I ordered the ZA13. I'm able to cup this mouse with my hand, which gives me more freedom and control with finer mouse movements. And the raised butt gives my palm area the support I need. This mouse feels just as if not more comfortable to me.

The mouse buttons feel stiffer, more click-ey than th FK1. It helps with 1-tapping and I prefer these buttons over the FK1. The little wings on the side are neat, again more comfort. I don't know if the coating had changed but it feels good too. The new Zowie logo and white scroll wheel are more aesthetically pleasing to me also.

I haven't run any in depth sensor tests and probably won't because it uses the same sensor. I had no tracking issues or other sensor anomalies while using it. 1000 Hz, 800 DPI.

I would recommend the ZA series to anyone looking for a simple but solid mouse. So far, it's the best I've used.


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tech99*
> 
> So EC series is where I should be looking at for a DA shaped Zowie. Guess I'll be ordering one EC1-A real soon. TBH, I want ZA12 and EC1-A both.


I don't entirely agree with what was said above. I came from a Deathadder and whilst I liked the DA, I absolutely love the ZA -- the hump, the ambi shape, the coating, the weight, the feeling of the tracking... everything about it is better imo. I went with a ZA11 and I must say it's my favorite of the 30 something mice I've used over the last 10 years and it's the closest to one of my all time favorite shapes, the Intelli 1.1! I personally think that my ZA11 just feels like an ambidextrous Deathadder with a better hump placement. No more awkward ring and pinky finger 'resting spot' but more of a 5 finger solid grip on the mouse allowing for better control.


----------



## tech99

There's only one way of finding out which one's really is for me. I've already ordered EC1-A. Let's see how it turns out.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> everything about it is better imo. I went with a ZA11 and I must say it's my favorite of the 30 something mice I've used over the last 10 years and it's the closest to one of my all time favorite shapes, the Intelli 1.1!


If you like the old Intelli and probably WMO shape so much take a close look at the new design from Finalmouse's finished ambidextrous design at their facebook page.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Didn't like the EC shape. Found it awkward to grip, like the Alcor. And I do like to he Deathadder.

Much prefer the ZA(11). The hump isn't that big of a deal. The 11 feels slightly bigger than the WMO. I'd probably recommend the ZA12 instead.

Forget ambi capabilities and what not. It's a shape that works much better than EC, at least for me.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> If you like the old Intelli and probably WMO shape so much take a close look at the new design from Finalmouse's finished ambidextrous design at their facebook page.


True, the final mouse looks interesting in that regard.


----------



## ElvisMarmaduke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> I don't entirely agree with what was said above. I came from a Deathadder and whilst I liked the DA, I absolutely love the ZA -- the hump, the ambi shape, the coating, the weight, the feeling of the tracking... everything about it is better imo. I went with a ZA11 and I must say it's my favorite of the 30 something mice I've used over the last 10 years and it's the closest to one of my all time favorite shapes, the Intelli 1.1! I personally think that my ZA11 just feels like an ambidextrous Deathadder with a better hump placement. No more awkward ring and pinky finger 'resting spot' but more of a 5 finger solid grip on the mouse allowing for better control.


What grip style do you use?

I am primarily fingertip and am considering the ECA-1 or the ZA11, but not really sure which I should go with, I don't have much for reference points because I'm using an old G3 that was given to me lol


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Ended up ordering the ZA11 from superbiiz.com. This shipping time is







... next Thursday, Amazon really spoils us. But I did get to use that coupon the other day and got it for $55.


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> If you like the old Intelli and probably WMO shape so much take a close look at the new design from Finalmouse's finished ambidextrous design at their facebook page.


That looks awesome! Funny thing is though that I'm so impressed with my Zowie ZA11 that my mouse quest is basically over. I'm not really fussed about trying anything new. If it gets great reviews and this community loves it I'll grab one anyway though haha.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElvisMarmaduke*
> 
> What grip style do you use?


I use whatever grip feels natural with the mouse that's in my hand. I think it's 50% preference based on what's comfy for you and 50% what the mouse will allow. In this case, it's a hybrid palm/claw and sometimes a bit of fingertip movement for long range AK tapping and stuff. Feels great with the ZA11.


----------



## Arizonian

I haven't had this feeling since savu, but you know when you're always thinking about that next mouse..... well my thoughts are finally over again for a while with the ZA12.

I am going to give the ducky a looksee but more for an office mouse for comfort.

I realize for some the back end raised in the rear is a dealbreaker but for those of us that like ZA, it's one of the main reasons.

Now I can turn my focus onto something else.


----------



## milkbreak

For me, the dealbreaker with the ZA12 is the side buttons. I'm pretty sure I would love this mouse but the side buttons make it impossible for me to grip it in such a way that it would feel natural. Shame, because everything else about the ZA12 is cool. Ambi mice shouldn't have sidebuttons imo.


----------



## Mych

I'd like to see more Intellimouse Optical / Kana style side buttons. One on each side and recessed more into the shell. Then they would be available but not uncomfortably in the way for anyone or most people.


----------



## wmoftw

Hyperglides for the ZA13 where are you .............


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Hyperglides for the ZA13 where are you .............


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I pulled my ZA13 out of the box I'm selling locally and just placed the hyperglides on top.
> 
> The bottom fits snug as a bug but the top seems a fraction off. Almost a bit over a bit. Here is a close up. Sorry it's dusty when you get close. I can't say 100% it fits but it's definitely doable.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*


they don't fit bruh


----------



## MLJS54

Will these mice ever be on Amazon in the US?


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> they don't fit bruh


Sand them down
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Will these mice ever be on Amazon in the US?


Not likely for a while


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Will these mice ever be on Amazon in the US?


No idea, but it doesn't look all that likely at this point. There's not any reason they wouldn't be up by now if it wasn't something like the Nintendo/Amazon situation a while ago, which means it's pretty unlikely we'll see them show up.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*
> 
> Sand them down


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*


Then Spam their Email (here: http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=email ) and ask them.


----------



## ncck

so is this the zowie mouse I should be looking for if I like my fk1 but feel like I need more holding support for tracking? I flick/aim fine with the fk1 but when targets move around really fast I feel like I don't have a full enough grip to keep tracking.. I'm scared tho, and which size za11 or za12? I use hypers on my fk1 but I see they're on amazon now so that's a good sign

I'm also looking at FM


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Will these mice ever be on Amazon in the US?


On the 15th of last month I got an Amazon rep to say that they should be in stock in about a month. That has obviously passed now but not by much. He had me wait a good eight or so minutes to research it before giving me that answer and he didn't say "never" or "I don't have an estimate". Who knows....


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> On the 15th of last month I got an Amazon rep to say that they should be in stock in about a month. That has obviously passed now but not by much. He had me wait a good eight or so minutes to research it before giving me that answer and he didn't say "never" or "I don't have an estimate". Who knows....


What's wrong with amazon?


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> What's wrong with amazon?


http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/08/fulfillment-by-amazon-what-amazon-doesnt-tell-third-party-sellers/

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon-sellers-complain-of-tied-up-payments-account-shutdowns/

Basically many companies are weary of how Amazon has dealt with sales in the past. For many people that I've talked to, selling on Amazon is too much of a liability and risks reliable revenue. But on the other hand, companies that are able to take the risk of dealing with Amazon use the platform for the ease of getting products into customer's hands.


----------



## benbenkr

So just got the ZA12... I think I may have made the wrong choice and should have went for the ZA13 instead. My mid finger is having a very sllight difficulty in comfortably using the scroll wheel, it's just a tad bit too forward. Other than that, so far so good.

Dang.


----------



## detto87

Just received the ZA12.

It feels pretty light which I like. I can also use all 3 griptypes and aren't forced to any specific way of holding it.
The buttons are the best from Zowie so far imo. But the wheel is still meh and probably bugged (haven't plugged it in).

The reason I'm not pluggin it in is because I don't want to use it, because the shape is still not quite what I'm looking for.
The ZA11 should arrive tomorrow (I hope) and then I can compare the two.
Problem I have with the ZA12 shape is the butt. It feels too empty in hand in either grip. Too much air in the palm area.

I have high hopes now for the ZA11 though, because the general shape is fine to me.
The ZA11 will probably fix the problem with too much space in palm area.
A bit more width overall is also welcome compared to the ZA12.
It might be true to some extent what some ppl wrote, that the ZA11 feels like a slightly bigger WMO. I'd love that.

Hand size: 19,5cm.


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Considering my hand is the same size as yours, how would you rate the fingertip grip with the ZA12? I'm at a loss right now as to which mouse I should purchase (FK1/2, ZA11/12, or FM2015) so any insight on how this mouse functions in the fingertip grip would be an immense help.


----------



## a_ak57

Huh, too little contact in the palm area for you? Interesting, as that's the opposite of the complaints for a number of people. You ever use the FK line? I'm curious what you think of those since the butt is much less pronounced.


----------



## delledonne

Bought a ZA13 to try out, hopefully it will arrive later this week. I'm curious though, with the 13 being a new size, I wonder if Zowie will release an FK3 soon?


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delledonne*
> 
> Bought a ZA13 to try out, hopefully it will arrive later this week. I'm curious though, with the 13 being a new size, I wonder if Zowie will release an FK3 soon?


I doubt it.

The height of the ZA makes it much more accommodating to larger hands relative to other mice with the same foot print size. This is because the actual surface that your hand can rest on is increased as a result of the much higher hump.


----------



## skuko

been using the kana v1/2 for the past couple of years, would like to try this one out....from looking at the pictures, it seems the kana is in between the 11 and 12, which one should i go for? :-\


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skuko*
> 
> been using the kana v1/2 for the past couple of years, would like to try this one out....from looking at the pictures, it seems the kana is in between the 11 and 12, which one should i go for? :-\


I'd say the 12.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> Considering my hand is the same size as yours, how would you rate the fingertip grip with the ZA12? I'm at a loss right now as to which mouse I should purchase (FK1/2, ZA11/12, or FM2015) so any insight on how this mouse functions in the fingertip grip would be an immense help.


As I have no problem fingertipping any mouse I might not be able to really help you here. Fingertip is pretty much the grip I can use any mouse with, wether it is a Rival or a G303 or a Naga.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Huh, too little contact in the palm area for you? Interesting, as that's the opposite of the complaints for a number of people. You ever use the FK line? I'm curious what you think of those since the butt is much less pronounced.


I used the FK13 and the FK1 and still have both here.
Of course the contact point in the palm area is less on the FK13 than the ZA12. But that's not a problem because it has a pronounced claw grip shape. The FK1 is wider than the ZA12 in the palm area and the hand lays more flat on the FK1 because of the lower height. Those 2 criterias make it feel better in the back too than the ZA12. I pretty much miss only width in the back of the ZA12. It's pretty slender and thin overall.

ZA11 arrived today. it fits way better and feels really good. Safe grip, perfect with claw and palm hybrid. Like it already better than the FK1 and Rival, it's somewhat a mix between the two. It's true that it kinda feels similar in the hand as WMO, but slightly fuller.


----------



## Nandorr10

Helo! I have a problem, I can't decide which mouse would be better for me, the SS Kana V2 or the ZA13? Which one has better sensor, and which is better overall? I play only CS:GO. I really can't decide. Can you help me? Thanks!


----------



## detto87

ZA has probably the better sensor.
If anything, the LOD of the Kana v2 was WAY too high for me. Felt like 5mm whereas Zowie feels like 1,5mm.


----------



## Nandorr10

Okay, so Im gonna try the ZA. One more question, the Huano microswitches are worse than the SS's Omrons? My latest mouse was a g100s, but its button went wrong... So I want a mouse with better switches.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nandorr10*
> 
> One more question, the Huano microswitches are worse than the SS's Omrons?


The Rival uses Zippy switches. The old Kana used TC switches.


----------



## Nandorr10

And in the ZA13 can I replace the huano with japanese Omron?


----------



## Forma

I just got an RMA back of my ZA13. Anyone in the UK interested in a swap for an FK2? If so PM me.


----------



## tampix

I thought Kana v2 sensor was laggy as hell, almost like your crosshair is gliding on ice, so you can't go wrong changing to a ZA









And you can put some D2F-01F on everymouse where there's room (i put some in every mice i own, even in WMOs)


----------



## duydangle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*
> 
> Then Spam their Email (here: http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=email ) and ask them.


I think it would work if you double stack but if you remove the stock feet and use hyperglide then it does not work cause the hyperglide feets are bigger than za13 ones. Still waiting.


----------



## delledonne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> The height of the ZA makes it much more accommodating to larger hands relative to other mice with the same foot print size. This is because the actual surface that your hand can rest on is increased as a result of the much higher hump.


That's probably the weirdest reasoning for why you doubt an FK3 would be released. What does the ZA's higher height for larger hands have to do with the FK3 accommodating for smaller hands?

Edit: I think I understand what you meant since I seen you mention your hand size in another thread, so I can see how one's hand at 18cm would feel more comfortable with a ZA13.

I have 19.8cm size hands but prefer smaller mice like the kinzu, but after trying out the ZA13, I found the higher hump made it very uncomfortable for me. I like the FK2/2014, but would prefer a smaller, 120mm length "FK3" mouse with a flatter hump.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delledonne*
> 
> That's probably the weirdest reasoning for why you doubt an FK3 would be released. What does the ZA's higher height for larger hands have to do with the FK3 accommodating for smaller hands?


Sorry. I now realize I was unclear as to why I would point that out and I now think an FK3 is definitely possible.

I was under the impression when I wrote that post that the FK2 bottom shell was the same as the ZA13. This is not the case in reality.
The FK2 correpsonds to a ZA12 bottom shell so a FK3 is possible with a ZA13 bottom shell.

But nonetheless an FK3 would accommodate an extremely small hand when palmed that is quite smaller than a hand that is comfortable palming a ZA13.


----------



## delledonne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Sorry. I now realize I was unclear as to why I would point that out and I now think an FK3 is definitely possible.
> 
> I was under the impression when I wrote that post that the FK2 bottom shell was the same as the ZA13. This is not the case in reality.
> The FK2 correpsonds to a ZA12 bottom shell so a FK3 is possible with a ZA13 bottom shell.
> 
> But nonetheless an FK3 would accommodate an extremely small hand when palmed that is quite smaller than a hand that is comfortable palming a ZA13.


I'm too slow with my editing (at work at the moment), it's all good.


----------



## Jeptil0t

Switched from the FK1 to the ZA11 and I have pretty modest sized hands.

I am really enjoying it, I get slightly better control with the palm contact, the switches are a little lighter, the lip on the front allows for easier lift off and the DPI settings are more standard.

I prefered the FK1 over all other mice I tried; the Razer Mamba, Logitech G9, Steelseries Sensei Raw, Kinzu V2, Logitech G402, so to prefer the ZA11 is a real treat.

I think if you enojyed the FK1 or Sensei, you have to give this one a shot, its pretty ballin IMO.


----------



## benbenkr

So now I have both the ZA12 and ZA13, the good news is that the ZA13 feels really nice for my hand size (18cm from tip of mid-finger to wrist). But the bad news is that the ZA13 has a scroll wheel rattle and it's annoying. The ZA12 does not exhibit the same problem, it's tight and rigid while tactile, the way it should be.

Zowie's QC has been decent at best, but damn.. I would have expected them to get their QC department right by now.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> So now I have both the ZA12 and ZA13, the good news is that the ZA13 feels really nice for my hand size (18cm from tip of mid-finger to wrist). But the bad news is that the ZA13 has a scroll wheel rattle and it's annoying. The ZA12 does not exhibit the same problem, it's tight and rigid while tactile, the way it should be.
> 
> Zowie's QC has been decent at best, but damn.. I would have expected them to get their QC department right by now.


It's just variance between units. Yep, QC at its finest.


----------



## the1onewolf

Typical Zowie low tier qc. At least your scroll wheel doesn't skip or the coating doesn't flake into your hands


----------



## benbenkr

Will see over the next few weeks at how it holds up. I don't expect the wheel to last anymore than half a year tbh.


----------



## scylk

Hi
Has anyone switched from a Kinzu v2 or v3 to a ZA13 ?
How are the differences in terms of weight and shape ?


----------



## wmoftw

can anyone comment on the stiff clicks? I bought the FK1 a while ago, it was alright but the clicks were stiff. I bought the ZA13 and the FK2, and the FK2 clicks compared to the ZA13 were horrible. I never even plugged in the FK2 because of how stiff the clicks were. A friend bought the ZA11, and he says the clicks are just as stiff as the FK series.

I am confused because there is absolutely no way my ZA13 has even close to the same click stiffness as a FK2 or FK1. People on here also report the clicks as being stiff, but others say they're fine.

What gives?


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> can anyone comment on the stiff clicks? I bought the FK1 a while ago, it was alright but the clicks were stiff. I bought the ZA13 and the FK2, and the FK2 clicks compared to the ZA13 were horrible. I never even plugged in the FK2 because of how stiff the clicks were. A friend bought the ZA11, and he says the clicks are just as stiff as the FK series.
> 
> I am confused because there is absolutely no way my ZA13 has even close to the same click stiffness as a FK2 or FK1. People on here also report the clicks as being stiff, but others say they're fine.
> 
> What gives?


All I can do is share my experience hoping that it might help you:

My launch FK1 has the stiffest clicks of any mouse I've ever tried. My ZA12 clicks are quite a bit lighter than my FK1. My EC2-A clicks are just lighter than my ZA12.

All of my other mice (And I have a lot from the last 2 years) have much lighter clicks than my ZA12.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> All I can do is share my experience hoping that it might help you:
> 
> My launch FK1 has the stiffest clicks of any mouse I've ever tried. My ZA12 clicks are quite a bit lighter than my FK1. My EC2-A clicks are just lighter than my ZA12.
> 
> All of my other mice (And I have a lot from the last 2 years) have much lighter clicks than my ZA12.


weird, I know the FM2015 clicks are lighter, but I found the ZA clicks to be completely acceptable, while the FK clicks were absolutely not acceptable. I guess people are more sensitive to it?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scylk*
> 
> Hi
> Has anyone switched from a Kinzu v2 or v3 to a ZA13 ?
> How are the differences in terms of weight and shape ?


Those mice aren't really "tall", and the kinzus are the smallest out of those mice too (kana is bigger). If you bought the ZA13, it will be a much bigger mouse compared to a Kinzu. I find kinzus light and small, the ZA13 is light (80g) but not really small, that back hump is what you'll notice the most. You will get used to it, but I always found those kinzus very small and really light.

I will also say this feels heavier than a WMO, despite it being the same weight. I think that's because the weight distribution (there seems to be more weight in the back than the front) and the quality of the build, the mouse is smaller, so it feels more dense compared to a slightly bigger mouse with the same weight. If it was a blind test, I'd say the ZA13 was heavier, but in reality it's not. After playing with it for a while you don't really care.


----------



## espgodson

im wmo's mentioned friend and yeah my ZA11's are really stiff =( i got this size as its more similar to the sensei having my fk2 & za11 next to eachother the clicks are pretty much the same. now that i have them right next to eachother i can say the fk2's is a bit more stiff but the za11's are nowhere near what i would want in a mouse =(


----------



## fuzzybass

Yea... I have the FK1 and now the ZA12, and they feel about the same, to me at least.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Yea... I have the FK1 and now the ZA12, and they feel about the same, to me at least.


Personally, the hump itself makes it pretty much different for me. Maybe I'm used to low profile mices, but the humps on the ZA series is rather awkward to me, even after few days of usage.


----------



## delledonne

Well I ended up swapping the internals of the ZA13 to my FK '14, works great!


----------



## altf4

I didn't liked huanos either on my fk1, my switch literally just died after couple months felt like i was putting too much pressure on it just because how stiff it was :/


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Huano yellow tops(Are there actual model numbers for these things? I have looked around with no luck) are very acceptable actually.

My favorite Huano switch would be the blue shell white top ones.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> My favorite Huano switch would be the blue shell white top ones.


I've tried them too and found Cherry DG2s to be better - less travel, more quiet sound. Althought Huano blues have better click force uniformity if you compare several between each other.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> I've tried them too and found *Cherry DG2s* to be better - less travel, more quiet sound. Althought Huano blues have better click force uniformity if you compare several between each other.


Definition of mushy switches, at least the ones I tried. No crispness. Lack of rebound.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Definition of mushy switches, at least the ones I tried. No crispness. Lack of rebound.


Possible, for someone who's used to harder switches. I'm used to instant actuation and low click sound.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> mushy, crispness, rebound


The perceived feeling of the same switch could vary with different mice. The amount of force you have to apply for a click is dependant on the shell, for instance Kinzu shell is very stiff and the lightest switches are to be used with it, while Sensei's shell is softer (due to shell size/thickness ratio). Same switches could sound differently in different shells, especially if their materials differ. What also matters is how far the buttons are moved to the center of a mouse.


----------



## MLJS54

Which ZA (if any) comes close to the MS IO1.1 shape? I remember that mouse having a much bigger hump than a WMO, I think.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

I think ZA 11 close MS IO1.1A but still narrow in the middle


MY Zowie Microsoft IO1.1A ZG
A perfect grip, non-slip. this mouse w PCB zowie 3310. It would be cool


----------



## Brigand253

I received my ZA13 about a week ago and I honestly wish I could like it's shape. I'm coming from an FK 2014 for reference and have 18 cm hands. A lot of great information has been presented so I'll just add that for me, the increased back was just a bit too much. It doesn't feel as agile as my FK despite being ~5g lighter. And I prefer the stiffness of the FK's buttons. Looks like I should have gotten an FK2 for the 3310, click latency fix, etc., or just waited to see if they release an FK3.

Please note that while the dimension increases seem minor, the difference in hand is very noticeable.

EDIT: I looked at my ZA13 collecting dust on my desk so I figured I'd give it another try. Plugged it in and it's now feeling great. I was using a Logitech G303 right before going to my ZA13, so maybe that's why the shape and performance agreed with me. I change mice like some people change clothes cause I'm an addict.


----------



## delledonne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brigand253*
> 
> I received my ZA13 about a week ago and I honestly wish I could like it's shape. I'm coming from an FK 2014 for reference and have 18 cm hands. A lot of great information has been presented so I'll just add that for me, the increased back was just a bit too much. It doesn't feel as agile as my FK despite being ~5g lighter. And I prefer the stiffness of the FK's buttons. Looks like I should have gotten an FK2 for the 3310, click latency fix, etc., or just waited to see if they release an FK3.
> 
> Please note that while the dimension increases seem minor, the difference in hand is very noticeable.


Swap the ZA13 internals to your FK'14, no need to buy a FK2


----------



## bobsaget

Your feedback is definitely interesting. I've been using a zowie fk (2013 I believe, first version) for the past two years, I'm so accustomed to the shape and clicks stiffness that I'm really hesitating towards the za series. Sensor and dpi implementation might be better but maybe that's not worth it after all, and I don't really think it will improve my csgo "skills". I guess I'll stick with my good old fk until it breaks.


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delledonne*
> 
> Swap the ZA13 internals to your FK'14, no need to buy a FK2


That's brilliant, why didn't I think of that? Thanks for the tip delledonne!


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Your feedback is definitely interesting. I've been using a zowie fk (2013 I believe, first version) for the past two years, I'm so accustomed to the shape and clicks stiffness that I'm really hesitating towards the za series. Sensor and dpi implementation might be better but maybe that's not worth it after all, and I don't really think it will improve my csgo "skills". I guess I'll stick with my good old fk until it breaks.


What I was really after was a mouse 120mm in length (little FK is 124mm I believe), lighter, and that would still let me palm/claw. I can do that, but I couldn't get adjusted to the fullness in the palm, and the ZA made my hand raise off the mouse pad too much, so I lost some contact there. I maintain very light contact with the mouse pad for additional control.


----------



## CIV

Has anyone tried to swap the ZA13 into the FK2? Is it pretty easy? I just got the ZA13 yesterday, and I'm REALLY trying, but it's just weird feeling. The switches are better..less mushy but the hump needs to be in the middle or something.


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CIV*
> 
> Has anyone tried to swap the ZA13 into the FK2? Is it pretty easy? I just got the ZA13 yesterday, and I'm REALLY trying, but it's just weird feeling. The switches are better..less mushy but the hump needs to be in the middle or something.


I don't think there's any point in doing that
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> Your feedback is definitely interesting. I've been using a zowie fk (2013 I believe, first version) for the past two years, I'm so accustomed to the shape and clicks stiffness that I'm really hesitating towards the za series. Sensor and dpi implementation might be better but maybe that's not worth it after all, and I don't really think it will improve my csgo "skills". I guess I'll stick with my good old fk until it breaks.


In the same boat. Been using the og FK since it was released. Tried the FK1 but didn't like it. I really want to try the ZA as I want something that's as narrow as the FK but with a higher hump, but not risking it with these CA resellers and their return policies. Look like Amazon won't ever have it on stock via Prime.


----------



## CIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I don't think there's any point in doing that


Asking if anyone has done it? My FK2 has latency, mushy switches, bad wheel...but the shape is perfect. If I can swap out the internals, it means the ZA13 isn't a total scrap.


----------



## mousefan

Zowie Best. I feel no latency and their mouseconcepts are simply heavenlike.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CIV*
> 
> Asking if anyone has done it? My FK2 has latency, mushy switches, bad wheel...but the shape is perfect. If I can swap out the internals, it means the ZA13 isn't a total scrap.


I put the internals from a ZA12 into an FK1 with no issue. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to do the same in your situation.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CIV*
> 
> Asking if anyone has done it? My FK2 has latency, mushy switches, bad wheel...but the shape is perfect. If I can swap out the internals, it means the ZA13 isn't a total scrap.


I changed the internals of my ZA12 to my AM-FG. Very easy mod.


----------



## CIV

awesome, thanks for the feedback. Anything I need to look out for or is it pretty much a pcb swap out?


----------



## Maximillion

Thankfully, Zowie makes such alterations very easy. It's a simple pop n drop


----------



## CIV

Yep, swapped them out last night, only issue was getting the mouse cable right so it snapped shut. I can pretty much confirm that the "mushy" clicks on the FK2 is the shell. Whatever Huano versions were in the ZA13 were MUCH more snappy, threw them into the FK and it's the same soft click feeling. It's all good though. Hopefully if they make a new FK, the just go with a lighter shell like the ZA. Now I'm going to take it apart again, wet sand and polish up the plastic top shell.


----------



## Sptz

I've been with my ZA11 for a month now and I have to say it's the best mouse I've used since the IE 1.1 and MX500, both of which I used extensively during the 1.1 to 1.6 era


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sptz*
> 
> I've been with my ZA11 for a month now and I have to say it's the best mouse I've used since the IE 1.1 and MX500, both of which I used extensively during the 1.1 to 1.6 era


Do you mean the IntelliMouse Optical 1.1? I've been asking which ZA model is closest to the 1.1, so you went with the 11 and not the 12? Others suggested the 12.


----------



## Robobot

Hey guys, I currently have an FK'14 and I love everything about it except the click latency. I've heard there are a lot of issues with FK2's (such as 'mushy' clicks) - is my best option to just stick with the FK'14 and deal with the latency - or would trying a ZA12 be worth it? I realize it's held differently but size-wise it's pretty close.

Cheers guys.


----------



## Sptz

I use the 11 because I have big hands, that's the only reason, they're all the same, just slightly different lengths and all


----------



## CIV

I took my ZA13 guts and threw them into my FK2 shell...works like a charm. The ZA series is NOT low profile like the FK, so for me it just wouldn't work. I also took the time while I had the FK2 shell off to wet sand and polish it up. Shell is way lighter and so are the clicks.


----------



## j0hn

I purchased an AM-GS to put my ZA pcb in if I like the shape, the buttons on the AM are so stiff that I get misclicks when I go back and use my FK1 again


----------



## detto87

After some more testing I'm using neither of my Zowie Za12 or ZA11. They're both too thin.


----------



## CIV

Felt the same, either I was just waaay to used to the low profile/shape of the FK, or I just couldn't adapt to the ZA. No question the top shell is lighter, and made the huanos feel like omrons almost...in my case.

I gotta believe they will launch a new FK, It was too popular and they would do it for the re brand itself I'm sure. I can only hope the make the top shell lighter, to eliminate some of the mushy clicks.


----------



## Steele84

My ZA11 has been reduced to a day to day fingertip mouse, it never got comfortable for me. I'm doing my gaming on my roccat koneXTD


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Planning to order some hyperglides for my za11. I see them on Amazon, however not specific for each mouse. I presume each mouse uses the same size feet for all. Ready to see how it tracks with double stacked feet.


----------



## j0hn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Planning to order some hyperglides for my za11. I see them on Amazon, however not specific for each mouse. I presume each mouse uses the same size feet for all. Ready to see how it tracks with double stacked feet.


Keep in mind the hyperglides are thicker than the stock feet, you might not need to double stack them, I don't know if it'll even track consistently.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j0hn*
> 
> Keep in mind the hyperglides are thicker than the stock feet, you might not need to double stack them, I don't know if it'll even track consistently.


So stacking a pair of hypers on top of the originals may be a bad idea, i see.

Guess i'll just pop off the originals & apply the hyper glides instead(that's what's suggested?)& see how it feels. I've heard good things about them so we'll see.


----------



## rnato

So before my last IME 3.0 dies (I'd buy a stack NIB ones but can't find any, and I guess it's time to move on anyway), I have some questions.

The Zowie ZA is probably the mouse most like the IME 3.0 these days, yes? If so, which one would be closest to the size/shape of the IME 3.0 - ZA11, ZA12, or ZA13?

Also does the ZA suffer from any of the problems previous Zowie mice had? I read reports have hard clicks etc. Is the sensor as accurate as the IME if I plan on running the ZA at 400dpi/125hz. I'm comfy there.

Thanks for any info.


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rnato*
> 
> So before my last IME 3.0 dies (I'd buy a stack NIB ones but can't find any, and I guess it's time to move on anyway), I have some questions.
> 
> The Zowie ZA is probably the mouse most like the IME 3.0 these days, yes? If so, which one would be closest to the size/shape of the IME 3.0 - ZA11, ZA12, or ZA13?
> 
> Also does the ZA suffer from any of the problems previous Zowie mice had? I read reports have hard clicks etc. Is the sensor as accurate as the IME if I plan on running the ZA at 400dpi/125hz. I'm comfy there.
> 
> Thanks for any info.


Might want to look into an EC1 instead


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j0hn*
> 
> Keep in mind the hyperglides are thicker than the stock feet, you might not need to double stack them, I don't know if it'll even track consistently.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> So stacking a pair of hypers on top of the originals may be a bad idea, i see.
> 
> Guess i'll just pop off the originals & apply the hyper glides instead(that's what's suggested?)& see how it feels. I've heard good things about them so we'll see.


I wouldn't doublestack hyper glides, they are a good size as they come individually.

The original mouse feet are very thin and even if you doublestack the ZA mouse feet that came with the box it wouldn't be as thick as one hyper glide.

I have one mouse that I put a hyper glide on top of the original and I don't have any sensory issues that I noticed.

I have a second mouse which I "did" remove the original feet before putting on the hyper glides and I don't feel a difference.

When you pull original mouse feet off, they are more like tape then a hard plastic. See picture below of my original feet removed.



My suggestion would be either double stack the original feet or just single hyper glides.


----------



## CorruptBE

My "glide" increased drastically when using a double stack.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I may just toss a pair of hypers ontop
Of the original & see how it feels.


----------



## benbenkr

On my end, I couldn't get Hyperglides so I double stacked the Tiger Gaming feets ontop of the ZA12. Definitely did improve movement, though I don't know how much comparison to the Hyperglides.


----------



## rnato

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> Might want to look into an EC1 instead


EC1-A I guess? Is the reason the shape?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rnato*
> 
> EC1-A I guess? Is the reason the shape?


Yes. The EC1 shape is probably the closest one to the IE3.0.


----------



## favoxhille

I'm using the zowie za13 from something about a month and i can say it's the best mouse i have ever used. (previous mice fk2,ec2,g100s and kinzu v3)

The size fit perfectly to my hand (18cm +- from the bottom of my wrist to the tip of middle finger) especially thanks to the 62mm width, wich is the first time we see it on an high quality mouse(eg g100s and rog sica have 62mm width but they are far from being good build quality mice starting from that uncomfortable edge on the bottom to the extremely low click quality, speaking of g100s, wich screw the one tap style and generally give a random input = you'll never be sure how many shots you will fire, like the opposite to the top quality of zowie switches that many complain cause they are stiff but it's that feature wich make them the best for fps).

However the za13 feels great in my hand i can close the bottom of the mouse in my wrist having the tip of the thumb and ringer along with the pinky clawing almost on the end of the mouse.

The only real downside is the placement of mouse5 side button (the closer to the end) that goes on the way of the thumb and that's really a shame cause it would have been enough to place the buttons on the upper edge and give more space for the thumb grip.
On this topic it really seems like zowie in its mouse force the user to keep the point thumb in the center, i've also written an email to them about this problem related expecially with za13.
So i was thinking of removing mouse5 and put on the gap some tape, to make it more stable and removing the up and down effect.
Is there a way to take off the button without severe the connection?

I have also taken some pics to show better how i grip the mouse and why mouse5 placement is a annoyance to me (sry for the bad quality but the only camera i had was an old one)


http://imgur.com/yKT5Z


Furthermore i would like to replace the feet, they feel kinda plastic rather than teflon but maybe it's just the low thickness to create that friction. Unfortunately the hyperglide work only on za12/11
but is there any chance they will release also for za13?


----------



## LzbeL

so... this ZA dont have more button latency problem, right? I think I'll buy the ZA12 ... it's time to retire my IMO.

In this mouse, all DPI's are native?


----------



## Arizonian

Just curious if anyone with a ZA playing CS:GO who bind jump to mwheeldown, get the infamous scroll wheel jump problem?


----------



## detto87

Zowie wheel problem since .... several years. They don't bother to fix it. And yes, I have that problem on every Zowie mouse.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Just curious if anyone with a ZA playing CS:GO who bind jump to mwheeldown, get the infamous scroll wheel jump problem?


My case and no relevant problems like wheel getting stuck and "auto-clicking" at some point (howver i never reported this kind of problems with a gaming mouse), even though is not the best scroll wheel ever (eg ec2 wheel was phenomenal but that wouldn't feet to a mouse with a such low end like za), it does its gaming job at least for my needs (bhopping mwheel down,flash bang mwheel up)


----------



## LzbeL

guys, my hand measures 18cm... which is the model perfect for me?


----------



## pgabor

I had 4 zowies so far, only one had problem with auto scrolling, and even that was a very rare occasion.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> guys, my hand measures 18cm... which is the model perfect for me?


What mice did you use previously?
My hand size it's about 18cm and i found za13 fitting perfectly, maybe slightly longer than i would have liked.
For example using fk2 i could feel immediately while playing it was way too long with the consequence of having the end of the mouse quite loose, instead with the za13 i can completely palm it having the tip of the middle finger touching just the end of the mouse or clawing it lefting some space between the tip of my pointer/middle fingers and the end of the mouse.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> What mice did you use previously?
> My hand size it's about 18cm and i found za13 fitting perfectly, maybe slightly longer than i would have liked.
> For example using fk2 i could feel immediately while playing it was way too long with the consequence of having the end of the mouse quite loose, instead with the za13 i can completely palm it having the tip of the middle finger touching just the end of the mouse or clawing it lefting some space between the tip of my pointer/middle fingers and the end of the mouse.


IMO 1.1, WMO and now KPM.

I think the ZA13 is perfect, as the KPM measured 12cm and I feel very comfortable.

ty!


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> IMO 1.1, WMO and now KPM.
> 
> I think the ZA13 is perfect, as the KPM measured 12cm and I feel very comfortable.
> 
> ty!


The only bother could be the mouse5(side button) placement if you thumb grip under it, sometime i accidentally hit it with the side of thumb but it isn't really a problem because i don't bind anything there


----------



## benbenkr

I too have an 18cm from tip to wrist hand size. While the ZA13 was indeed a very good length, it is just too narrow and gave me cramps after an hour+ of usage. I reverted back to the ZA12 and adjusted my grip, no more cramps but just the slight inconvenience in getting used to the extra bit of length.

So do take note.


----------



## favoxhille

Fun fact the za13 width is ideal for me and just a bit too long on the length maybe my hand is not that wide or more likely is the fact that i use to grip the mouse very tightly.


----------



## Jeptil0t

So I have the FK1 and ZA11 and picked up these to try out over fresh sets of the stock feet.

Tiger Gaming AM/FK1/ZA PTFE Black 0.46mm



Hotline Games AM/FK1/ZA Performance 0.6mm.



I tested a fresh set of the stock feet and each of these products for about 80 hours each in CS GO on the ZA11 and FK1.

I tested these feet on an Artisan Zero Mid Large pad.

The Tiger Gaming feet seem to be the same thickness, offering no noticeable difference compared to the stock feet, however they are designed to be the same. Glide and stopping was the same.

The Hotline Games feet were thicker, offering lower lift off distance, very marginally improved glide and stopping.

Each set will gloss up and offer better glide after around 40 hours of use, so there is some breaking in period for all sets.

I would probably recommend the Hotline Games feet, they are inexpensive and improve the experience, if only very slightly.

Tiger Gaming offer a Carbon and UPE variant as well, Hotline games offer a Competition variant too, so I will order these up for testing and report back to see if there is any improvement.

I enjoyed testing these new feet and felt that they did improve the experience over the stock feet, so for those that have a few bucks spare and are curious, give em a go.

But I would probably skip all the lower end stuff and go right for the top end parts, the price difference is small and the performance difference on stock type parts isn't really that noticeable.


----------



## Jeptil0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Do you mean the IntelliMouse Optical 1.1? I've been asking which ZA model is closest to the 1.1, so you went with the 11 and not the 12? Others suggested the 12.


I picked up the ZA11 after owning the FK1 for a quite a bit and while it is the same proportions, it feels bigger.

I feel the ZA11 raised shell makes quite a difference to hand feel, seeming a little larger than the FK1 despite being otherwise the same size.

I would probably recommend the ZA12 if you had the FK1 and liked the size, or if you are chasing the IE 1.1 size. On that note I would probably recommend the ZA12 as well if you are unsure what size to go for.

Don't know why someone doesn't just put out a 1.1 clone with basically Zowie internals, would sell so fast and you could charge whatever really. I would buy one.


----------



## psych7

Hey guys,
i am using a Zowie EC2-A and wanna try a ZA. Should i start with the 12?
I have a long but small hand







Thats why the EC1 is too big for me. In the past i used MX518/G400.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psych7*
> 
> Hey guys,
> i am using a Zowie EC2-A and wanna try a ZA. Should i start with the 12?
> I have a long but small hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why the EC1 is too big for me. In the past i used MX518/G400.


Ec series is amazing. I'd say stay with it. If you still feel like trying the za series yea start with the 12.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psych7*
> 
> Hey guys,
> i am using a Zowie EC2-A and wanna try a ZA. Should i start with the 12?
> I have a long but small hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why the EC1 is too big for me. In the past i used MX518/G400.


Did you feel the ec2 fit well in your hand? if yes the za12 should be the way otherwise you could look toward the za13, thinner in widht and height.


----------



## Invalid My Arse

my hand size is 17cm, so which which size fit my hand most? za11 or za12, i use the old ec1 before i really like it for claw and palm


----------



## psych7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> Did you feel the ec2 fit well in your hand? if yes the za12 should be the way otherwise you could look toward the za13, thinner in widht and height.


I think the EC2 is too small, but the EC1 was too wide :/ To lift the EC2 is much easier for me at gaming. For office work the ec1 fits better








Only my pinky is on the right side of the mouse! I lift it only with my thumb and pinky!! The other three fingers are on top!


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psych7*
> 
> I think the EC2 is too small, but the EC1 was too wide :/ To lift the EC2 is much easier for me at gaming. For office work the ec1 fits better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only my pinky is on the right side of the mouse! I lift it only with my thumb and pinky!! The other three fingers are on top!


then the za12 should be what you are looking for same width as ec2 but longer


----------



## Invalid My Arse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Invalid My Arse*
> 
> my hand size is 17cm, so which which size fit my hand most? za11 or za12, i use the old ec1 before i really like it for claw and palm


nvm i check again my hand size is 19cm, lol







so does za12 fit my hand well? really want to try this mouse but don't know what to buy


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Invalid My Arse*
> 
> nvm i check again my hand size is 19cm, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so does za12 fit my hand well? really want to try this mouse but don't know what to buy


I have 18cm hands and tried both ZA 13 & 12 and preferred 12. After long hours of gaming ZA 13 would begin to cramp my hand. I hold the mouse tight and though I normally prefer smaller mice, it's just a bit to narrow in center for my hand. ZA 12 fit just right for me like Goldielocks finding the perfect porridge.

There is a bigger difference between 11 & 12 than there is between 12 & 13.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Invalid My Arse*
> 
> nvm i check again my hand size is 19cm, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so does za12 fit my hand well? really want to try this mouse but don't know what to buy


Suggest the ZA12 to be honest. 18cm fingertip-to-wrist and 8cm palm width here, the ZA13 cramped my hand before an hour of usage despite it being more usable in the first 10 minutes.

Remember, just measuring the length isn't enough. The palm width is also important.


----------



## Invalid My Arse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> Suggest the ZA12 to be honest. 18cm fingertip-to-wrist and 8cm palm width here, the ZA13 cramped my hand before an hour of usage despite it being more usable in the first 10 minutes.
> 
> Remember, just measuring the length isn't enough. The palm width is also important.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I have 18cm hands and tried both ZA 13 & 12 and preferred 12. After long hours of gaming ZA 13 would begin to cramp my hand. I hold the mouse tight and though I normally prefer smaller mice, it's just a bit to narrow in center for my hand. ZA 12 fit just right for me like Goldielocks finding the perfect porridge.
> 
> There is a bigger difference between 11 & 12 than there is between 12 & 13.


hmm i think i will try za12, thank all, and my palm width about 8.4cm


----------



## favoxhille

Yesterday i get back for some hours of cs:go to the ec2-a and i have noticed it's quite more accurate than za13 when comes to consistency 1tap and readjusting aim on small pixel snap area, instead the za13 was after all much more comfortable moving around switching angles and generally gave a better sense of control after all.
The perfect thing would have been a za13 with raised end wich is the thing i really love from the ec2 and from what it looked to me the most similar example is the old IntelliMouse 1.1 unfortunately never used tho


----------



## wmoftw

Any word on ZA13 hyperglides? I emailed them weeks ago, no reply


----------



## benbenkr

^Nope.

But if you are confident with a pair of scissors, you can always trim it to size.


----------



## turnschuh

This would just lead into having feet with sharp edges which is not any better than running stock feet.
I dont think its worth it.


----------



## Nardykil

I absolutely love the shape of the Zowie ZA11, since i am a lefthanded gamer with 21 cm long hands and prefer feeling the hump in the back. It's an almost impossible task to find a mouse for me. It's like Zowie designed this mouse for my hands (could be a bit wider and even longer, but it's close to perfect).

The only issue with the Zowie ZA11 i have are the huano switches. While they feel supercrisp, they are a bit suboptimal for mobas like League of Legends, which i almost exclusively play, due to their stiffness and the necessity to spam-click.

So my question is: Is there an option like the ZA11 (big, hump in the back, ambidextrous, good sensor), but with omron switches, or can anyone confirm that the ZA11 is also perfect for moba as well once you get used to it? I basically used the deathadder lefthanded for ages, but the mouse clicks feel mushy, and it's sooo flat in the back.

Mice i already tried:
Evga Torq X10 (felt really awkward, weird mouseclicks)
Sensei Wireless (way too small for me, flat)
Avior 7000 (too flat, too small, like sensei wireless)
Razer Ouroboros (Wireless, didnt feel like high quality, sharp edges)

Unless i overlooked a mouse, i think the ZA11 is as close as it can get, it would be cool if moba-players could tell me about their experiences with the huanos.


----------



## bobsaget

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> I absolutely love the shape of the Zowie ZA11, since i am a lefthanded gamer with 21 cm long hands and prefer feeling the hump in the back. It's an almost impossible task to find a mouse for me. It's like Zowie designed this mouse for my hands (could be a bit wider and even longer, but it's close to perfect).
> 
> The only issue with the Zowie ZA11 i have are the huano switches. While they feel supercrisp, they are a bit suboptimal for mobas like League of Legends, which i almost exclusively play, due to their stiffness and the necessity to spam-click.
> 
> So my question is: Is there an option like the ZA11 (big, hump in the back, ambidextrous, good sensor), but with omron switches, or can anyone confirm that the ZA11 is also perfect for moba as well once you get used to it? I basically used the deathadder lefthanded for ages, but the mouse clicks feel mushy, and it's sooo flat in the back.
> 
> Mice i already tried:
> Evga Torq X10 (felt really awkward, weird mouseclicks)
> Sensei Wireless (way too small for me, flat)
> Avior 7000 (too flat, too small, like sensei wireless)
> Razer Ouroboros (Wireless, didnt feel like high quality, sharp edges)
> 
> Unless i overlooked a mouse, i think the ZA11 is as close as it can get, it would be cool if moba-players could tell me about their experiences with the huanos.


Hey









I'm playing dota 2 among other games using a zowie fk since 2013. The clicks are as stiff if not stiffer as the latest zowie mice such as the za series.
I got used to it very quickly, to the point where I would constantly misclick using a non-huano mouse








You should definitely give it at try for a couple of weeks or a month and see if you can get used to it.


----------



## Nardykil

That is really cool to hear, i will give it a try then =) I feel like many people instantaneously say huanos are made for fps and omrons for mobas, even if they never tried it themselves. The very crisp feeling of the huanos is something i actually prefer a lot compared to most omron switches, it just feels extremely precise. Thanks for your fast answer =)


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> That is really cool to hear, i will give it a try then =) I feel like many people instantaneously say huanos are made for fps and *omrons for mobas*, even if they never tried it themselves. The very crisp feeling of the huanos is something i actually prefer a lot compared to most omron switches, it just feels extremely precise. Thanks for your fast answer =)


Absolutely disagree on that to those claiming that (even if it's preference).
Problem with omrons is that in games like dota 2 or LOL, it is so easy to just activate a spell/skill while you are just prepping to aim it as an example of course. I know this because I was on a Razer DA, Avior/Naos 7000, SS Xai, Ikari, all were Omrons. I think how the Huano is implemented on the ZA is just nice between stiffness and softness.

I heard the EC1/2-A is even slightly softer than the ZA too btw.


----------



## Nardykil

You mean like you accidentally release spells on the mouse? I think i didn't really get it, since the mousebuttons on mobas (or lol at least) are just used for moving your character, which is why you need to be able to press your mousebuttons very fast and frequently since you basically move all the time. I totally agree though that this very basic distinction between huanos/omrons and the game type is unfounded rumor.

I can't use the EC1/2-A since it's designed for righthanded people only and i am lefthanded. It must be such a paradise for you being able to choose between all those mice







But the Zowie ZA11 might be the long-awaited solution


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> You mean like you accidentally release spells on the mouse? I think i didn't really get it, since the mousebuttons on mobas (or lol at least) are just used for moving your character, which is why you need to be able to press your mousebuttons very fast and frequently since you basically move all the time. I totally agree though that this very basic distinction between huanos/omrons and the game type is unfounded rumor.
> 
> I can't use the EC1/2-A since it's designed for righthanded people only and i am lefthanded. It must be such a paradise for you being able to choose between all those mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the Zowie ZA11 might be the long-awaited solution


Okay for example, in dota 2, a hero named Lion has a stun spell where you have to prep with Q and then activate with LMB. Because the spell is not a specific hero target kind, that means it can be used on the ground whenever the user the wants.

Now with the omrons, I often misclick the RMB and that causes my hero to move forward and cancels the prep for the spell to be activated instead. This little error can mean either death to me or a teamfight gone way wrong. Also another issue, I could be too eager to actiave the spell before an enemy is even within range, so you know... mind screwups like that are actually mitigated with the harder Huanos because the psychological eagerness of clicking too early.

It's a somewhat extreme example, but there are plenty of scenarios like that.

I hope Zowie makes a left-handed EC1/2 then, it's entirely doable!


----------



## Nardykil

Ahh now i get what you meant. Yeah i can see that being an issue.

The huanos also seem to make you think more when to click them and be more aware of which movements you are doing.

With the deathadder i tend to just spamclick all the time without even thinking too much, so the huanos might force more attention to positioning and movement in general and improve the skill in that aspect of the game.

I feel like the "distance" i have to press down the button is also shorter and it takes less time for the button to be back in the original position, so they might even have a tiny bit faster input. This might be a deathadder issue though and not specific to omrons.


----------



## Azmath

Hey guys. Wich Zowie ZA would you recommend for a claw grip user with 17 cm hand? A guy asked me to recommend one of these 3 and i can't even tell wich one. ZA11 is way to big for those hands and claw would be very had on it. I know ZA12 is for my grip but i would like the opinion of one of you here who use claw grip on these mices. Thank you very much.


----------



## Nardykil

From what i have heard so far, the ZA is for palm grip and hybrid palm grip, while the FK is designed for claw grip (flatter in the back).

If you want a ZA though, the ZA11 would definetely be too big. I heard many people around 18-19 cm are using the ZA12, so maybe even ZA13? I'm just speculating though.

Wait for someone with more knowledge than me to answer though =)


----------



## detto87

If you fingertip ZA13 is fine, but stay away from it if you want some butt in your palm for claw and/or palm grip. Even the ZA12 butt is pretty thin and felt empty in my hand. Only the ZA11 butt was wide enough and felt good like almost a WMO butt.
Hand with ~19.5cm length and ~9cm width.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Try ZA12 and check if the width is enough for you especially the butt. If it is you might be lucky and it fits just well.


----------



## favoxhille

i think is really up to the grip/preference in that range of size, my hand is 18length 8.5width i have a sort of hybrid between claw/palm with the palm completely closing the back while pointer and middle finger quite clawing, the overall grip is quite tight so if you have a loose/relaxed grip for istance you could easily prefer the bigger edition za12.
the best thing would be give it a tryout for some gaming session, maybe check if you can find it on your own amazon country so in case you should be able to return without speding any


----------



## Azmath

Ty guys. As i said, i have 18.5 cm palm, the friend that asked me has 17 cm palm. For me i would definetly go for the ZA12 even ZA11, but for him i don't know. I would recommend him EC2-A, i got one of those and i think he could claw it. He had sensei previously so ... if he could claw that mouse, could he claw the ZA12? About returning, in Romania we have only 2 shops that sell zowie mices, the good thing is that we have a law about online shopping. I can return what i bought online in 10 working days and get my money back without a specific reason. Ofc, return the product is the same state i got it.


----------



## Invalid My Arse

anyone have ec2-a and za12? can you take a picture side by side these two







thank you


----------



## mint567

The FK2 makes my wrist/hand hurt after a while despite it being great in CS. Would the ZA11 be big enough but still similar enough where it might eliminate the hurting? I know the dimensions etc. I'm just not sold on ZA11 or ZA12. I'm 19.5cm hands. Unfortunately there is no where around to 'test' both mice.


----------



## a_ak57

Why not go for the FK1? It's hard to say if the ZA11 would be a good choice since it's not just bigger, but a different shape. You could like the increased size but dislike the pronounced hump.


----------



## mint567

The reason being is the way that I hold the FK2 right now. I have quite a bit of space between my palm of my hand and the mouse. Its raised up over the mouse and the butt of the mouse the very in kind of sits on my hand/wrist. I think the ZA11/12 would fit the grip that I describe.


----------



## a_ak57

Ah, well if you're looking for a mouse with a larger butt (to actually contact your palm more) then the ZA series would work. However, which one you should get depends on how much bigger you want the mouse. While the raw dimensions say that the ZA12 is the size of the FK2, the increased hump size actually makes the ZA series feel one "step" larger. So the ZA13 feels equivalent to the FK2, ZA12 like the FK1, then the ZA11 just outright bigger. So whether you should get 11 or 12 depends on if you want something a bit bigger or considerably bigger.


----------



## mint567

I can use the rival comfortably but it is just too long in my opinion. Anything around 124mm and 128mm feels ok. 134mm is just too much. The butt/width (70mm)at the tail end of the rival is a little much but not too terrible. I think the ZA11 in that aspect would be more comfortable. After months of debate I will order one I suppose.


----------



## popups

The ZA series is now being sold by Amazon themselves?


----------



## zealord

sorry to just jump in like that, but does the ZA11 have bad build quality? Mine feels a bit ... I don't know how to put it, but it doesn't feel rock solid like the EC1 for example.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The ZA series is now being sold by Amazon themselves?


Good luck paying $81+3.00 shipping

Don't know why these mices from zowie are so expensive.


----------



## a_ak57

There's actually a separate listing for the amazon-sold version versus the third-party sellers. Amazon is charging $65.


----------



## Noismo

Still looking for FK3 with smaller shape.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noismo*
> 
> Still looking for FK3 with smaller shape.


+1 but i would lower just length to 117mm ish and width to 63-62mm, the 36mm height in the back is already fine since you want some feedback on the wrist and when lifting up.
More it would be better to have a quite straight width size through the middle and the end like in ec series with a raised end height as well... i think this would be the ultimate mouz


----------



## Scrimstar

I have 19x9 cm hands. I really like my Avior 7000's left side, but the right buttons get annoying. So im looking at the Zowie ZA11 and EC1-A to purchase, I was wondering how do each compare? I heard buttons are lighter on the EC1-A, but I saw a graph where the input is slower[albeit a questionable source] .


----------



## Ka0sX

hey guys what 1 would you reccomend for 19lenth / 9 wide?

Looks like ZA 11 for me, As out of the EC1 and EC2 i prefer the EC1


----------



## gujukal

What would you guys choose, FK2 or ZA13? I really like the shape of Kinzu and Sensei, but the Sensei is too big and i want something more high end than my Kinzu V3. Im leaning towards ZA13 since its lighter and seems to be overall better, butwould really need some second opinions.


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> What would you guys choose, FK2 or ZA13? I really like the shape of Kinzu and Sensei, but the Sensei is too big and i want something more high end than my Kinzu V3. Im leaning towards ZA13 since its lighter and seems to be overall better, butwould really need some second opinions.


watch this the ZA12 is closer to what u want


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> What would you guys choose, FK2 or ZA13? I really like the shape of Kinzu and Sensei, but the Sensei is too big and i want something more high end than my Kinzu V3. Im leaning towards ZA13 since its lighter and seems to be overall better, butwould really need some second opinions.


Depends on how tall you want the back end of the mouse. Some people hate the prominent rear hump of the ZA line, others like it. I haven't used a sensei in a while but from memory its hump pretty much falls between the two lines.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Depends on how tall you want the back end of the mouse. Some people hate the prominent rear hump of the ZA line, others like it. I haven't used a sensei in a while but from memory its hump pretty much falls between the two lines.


Its hard to know because i havent tried it ^^ There's really no store that sells it other than online so probably have to buy it and send it back if i dont like it i guess...


----------



## a_ak57

Well, what I meant was you can think about if you want something with a hump that's more prominent (ZA) or less prominent (FK) than the sensei.


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noismo*
> 
> Still looking for FK3 with smaller shape.


Me too. For me, the potential FK3 wouldn't need to be any more narrow than the current FK2, but maybe shortened to 120mm and lowered maybe 1mm. It's so hard to say because minor adjustments, even those as small as 1mm, feel quite significant once held in the hand.


----------



## Ka0sX

well i just bit the bullet and bought myself an early Bday gift

ZowieGear Blue G-SR Mouse Pad
ZowieGear Black ZA11 3200DPI Gaming Mouse
ZowieGear ZW-CAMADE-RED Red Camade Cable Bungee


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> well i just bit the bullet and bought myself an early Bday gift
> 
> ZowieGear Blue G-SR Mouse Pad
> ZowieGear Black ZA11 3200DPI Gaming Mouse
> ZowieGear ZW-CAMADE-RED Red Camade Cable Bungee


Happy Birthday. Post back with your thoughts once set up.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> What would you guys choose, FK2 or ZA13? I really like the shape of Kinzu and Sensei, but the Sensei is too big and i want something more high end than my Kinzu V3. Im leaning towards ZA13 since its lighter and seems to be overall better, butwould really need some second opinions.


I tried all these 3 mice, the kinzu v3 has the same height as fk2 wich is also way more longer, so you should be fine with the za13 with the only downside of being a bit too narrow on the middle and the end but overall is the best choice for g100s and kinzu users


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> watch this the ZA12 is closer to what u want


If you go for a ZA, I would also take the ZA12. The ZA13 was too narrrow for my taste and I'm a huge fan of the Kinzu shape.


----------



## Houser

I want to ask za series users, that have bind on mwheel +jump, it's the same problem as on the ec2 ??
My ec is making like crazy...when I'm in fight (cs go) is almost all the time jumping.
So they changed me once the product...but with the same problem

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## detto87

Zowie never bothered to fix their mouse wheel. They just don't care that it's broken. Since years.









One of the reasons I stopped buying products from them.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Zowie never bothered to fix their mouse wheel. They just don't care that it's broken. Since years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the reasons I stopped buying products from them.


And you base this "accusation" on what official stats?
Because 2 or 3 forumers on this forum alone has issues with the scroll wheel?

Yeah. Way to analyze and conclude things.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> And you base this "accusation" on what official stats?
> Because 2 or 3 forumers on this forum alone has issues with the scroll wheel?
> 
> Yeah. Way to analyze and conclude things.


No, I base this on my own experiences with Zowie.
I bought their mice since the very first FK mouse.
Also had 2 FK1s, 4(!) EC1-As (always returned because of defect mouse wheel), a ZA12, a ZA11, a EC2-A and a EC2 eVo white. Oh, and FK2.
ALL had a defective mouse wheel. Sometimes it just didn't always register a notch, that was "OK". Other times the wheel got stuck in the shell and needed to "plop" out again (mostly EC1). But ALL had a not-100% working mwheel.


----------



## favoxhille

imho it's really a personal thing "the zowie mwheels problem", since i really haven't had any problem with all my zowie experiences:ec2 evo,fk2,ec2-a and za13 with last 2 that i still own and za13 which currently using.
Moreover i think the ec2 mwheel is the best i ever used: best reliabilty never accidentally missclicked,great feedback response wise,easy to activate and really solid and steady when shacking the mouse lifted up.
The za13 mwheel is fine certainly not the best but not even troubling you so much to change with the fk wheel ,indeed the only real bug is the little rattling when shacking the mouse by lifting it up,
nothing to do with the extremely low quality of kinzu's v3 mwheel which rattles whenever you move the mouse a bit fast,and you can clearly feel the weight shifting and that's really annoying.
I binded jump+ to mwheel down too and never had misscroll problems,maybe you should make sure to not bind any weapon switch to mwheel up to avoid misscrolling. But if you simply missscroll cause of fingers positions i guess is just a fact of getting used to don't brush it, since it's normal that a mwheel is light to press, would be rather a problem to the most if it would be hard and stiff...


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> No, I base this on my own experiences with Zowie.
> I bought their mice since the very first FK mouse.
> Also had 2 FK1s, 4(!) EC1-As (always returned because of defect mouse wheel), a ZA12, a ZA11, a EC2-A and a EC2 eVo white. Oh, and FK2.
> ALL had a defective mouse wheel. Sometimes it just didn't always register a notch, that was "OK". Other times the wheel got stuck in the shell and needed to "plop" out again (mostly EC1). But ALL had a not-100% working mwheel.


Understood. Should have said this instead.

On my end, it's opposite for me. FK1, ZA12, ZA13 and EC-2a, sure not as many Zowies you've had but not one had a mousewheel problem. The FK1 did have the infamous click latency though.


----------



## Nardykil

Is it normal for the mouse wheel to be kinda rocky/shaky btw? Mine has a lot of play before the scroll.


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Happy Birthday. Post back with your thoughts once set up.


Well got the Mouse and pad yesterday and bungee

My first thoughts are its great combo i really like it, Mouse grip takes abit to get used to to tho.

I have tried the Ec`1-A aswell but i actually smashed it after 30mins because it was strange i could not control the mouse in game at all CSGO

This ZA11 Feels like its more raw or something because i can control it 100% i use 400DPI 2.1 in game,

Mouse Pad is great Mouse tracks great on it i actually prefer this pad more then a SS QCK Heavy

I actually think the mouse tracks better on the GSR pad better then a QCK Pad

Strange because Optical usually respond better on pure black surface

Maybe the 2 Ec1-A's i have had were buggy

But as i said i'am really liking the combo


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> Well got the Mouse and pad yesterday and bungee
> 
> My first thoughts are its great combo i really like it, Mouse grip takes abit to get used to to tho.
> 
> I have tried the Ec`1-A aswell but i actually smashed it after 30mins because it was strange i could not control the mouse in game at all CSGO
> 
> This ZA11 Feels like its more raw or something because i can control it 100% i use 400DPI 2.1 in game,
> 
> Mouse Pad is great Mouse tracks great on it i actually prefer this pad more then a SS QCK Heavy
> 
> I actually think the mouse tracks better on the GSR pad better then a QCK Pad
> 
> Strange because Optical usually respond better on pure black surface
> 
> Maybe the 2 Ec1-A's i have had were buggy
> 
> But as i said i'am really liking the combo


Glad to hear.









The color of the GSR and even the logo in the middle doesn't cause any issues that I can see or feel either. Ino did his test trying to use the center logo as much as possible and it didn't show any anomalies. Even the GSR-DG color works just fine with 3310 sensor.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I have yet to have any issues with the Gs-R & my mice. It's taking over my Talent & QCK as the favorite. Only pad left to try is the Artisan Zero Xsoft(the QCK KILLER).


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I have yet to have any issues with the Gs-R & my mice. It's taking over my Talent & QCK as the favorite. Only pad left to try is the Artisan Zero Xsoft(the QCK KILLER).


I have P-SR at work and traded my ZA13 for a ZA12. Have another ZA12 at home with Otsu which I can't seem to seperate from even over GSR-DG.

if you try Zero you may have two pads you'll like to have to choose from.









QCK+ killer you said?......I knew what you were referring to.


----------



## Nardykil

Ah btw in case someone is interested in that fact:

The Zowie ZA and the Steelseries Dex Mousepad together works PHENOMENAL =)


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> Is it normal for the mouse wheel to be kinda rocky/shaky btw? Mine has a lot of play before the scroll.


Yes. Zowie wheels aren't the best. They are a bit rougher and looser than most other mice i owned. They are functional, but not something I'd rely on (I.E. jumping).

It is improved though. Compared to the ZA11, the AM was ... 'Agricultural' in comparison.


----------



## gujukal

Got my ZA13 yesterday and first thing that bothered me was how uneven the mouse feet was when doing large motions, which i tend to do when playing CSGO. The shape is decent but I'm already thinking of returning it and get the FM15 :/


----------



## Nardykil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Got my ZA13 yesterday and first thing that bothered me was how uneven the mouse feet was when doing large motions, which i tend to do when playing CSGO. The shape is decent but I'm already thinking of returning it and get the FM15 :/


Thats weird, my ZA11 is absolutely even, rock solid. Are the glides at the 100% right spot?


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> Thats weird, my ZA11 is absolutely even, rock solid. Are the glides at the 100% right spot?


One of the feet was not properly placed when i got it, the left side was higher so i had to replace it with the replacement feet. Its looks good now but i can see its wearing one the left and right heel and not the whole mouse feet surface







Its feels fine on smaller movements, but when playing on low sens and doing large movements its quite annoying.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> One of the feet was not properly placed when i got it, the left side was higher so i had to replace it with the replacement feet. Its looks good now but i can see its wearing one the left and right heel and not the whole mouse feet surface
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its feels fine on smaller movements, but when playing on low sens and doing large movements its quite annoying.


Seems like a perfect chance to invest in some hyperglides


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Got my ZA13 yesterday and first thing that bothered me was how uneven the mouse feet was when doing large motions, which i tend to do when playing CSGO. The shape is decent but I'm already thinking of returning it and get the FM15 :/


mouse feet are actually not that good, thin and sharp on the edges give you a noticeable friction when moving the mouse quickly , really looking for hyperglide feet to come out in za13 size
btw what mouse do you refer with fm15?


----------



## Nardykil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> mouse feet are actually not that good, thin and sharp on the edges give you a noticeable friction when moving the mouse quickly , really looking for hyperglide feet to come out in za13 size
> btw what mouse do you refer with fm15?


I'm baffled, the glides on my ZA11 are the best i ever had on a mouse, the sides are rounded down and the mouse glides better than my Deathadder with Corepad Skatez Pro.

Maybe ZA13 and ZA11 use different glides?









edit: I'm pretty sure he means the finalmouse 2015 =)


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> I'm baffled, the glides on my ZA11 are the best i ever had on a mouse, the sides are rounded down and the mouse glides better than my Deathadder with Corepad Skatez Pro.
> 
> Maybe ZA13 and ZA11 use different glides?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: I'm pretty sure he means the finalmouse 2015 =)


The feet on my ZA13 are rounded and the glide on my G-SR is just perfect.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> mouse feet are actually not that good, thin and sharp on the edges give you a noticeable friction when moving the mouse quickly , really looking for hyperglide feet to come out in za13 size
> btw what mouse do you refer with fm15?


Finalmouse 2015, its not in stock atm but will most likely order it! Seems to be a lighter and better version of the Razer Imperator kinda which has an awesome shape imo.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I have P-SR at work and traded my ZA13 for a ZA12. Have another ZA12 at home with Otsu which I can't seem to seperate from even over GSR-DG.
> 
> if you try Zero you may have two pads you'll like to have to choose from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QCK+ killer you said?......I knew what you were referring to.


Kudos for knowing sir! I plan to order the Zero soon. Hopefully i like it as much as i expect i may.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nardykil*
> 
> I'm baffled, the glides on my ZA11 are the best i ever had on a mouse, the sides are rounded down and the mouse glides better than my Deathadder with Corepad Skatez Pro.
> 
> Maybe ZA13 and ZA11 use different glides?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: I'm pretty sure he means the finalmouse 2015 =)


not sure about the glides (in the sense of material) but the feet are surely different size since za12-11 feet don't fit to za13, also it's very likely that they have different heights according to za11-12 users who enjoy the feet and za13'one who don't , for example ec2 pads were great and i never had this friction problems from the edges of the mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Finalmouse 2015, its not in stock atm but will most likely order it! Seems to be a lighter and better version of the Razer Imperator kinda which has an awesome shape imo.


oh i'm surprised by that since they are completely different size mice,maybe if you're looking for a small ergonomic mouse you should look to ec2 not quite small like za13 but definetely closer than the rest of ergonomic mice on the market


----------



## Azmath

Hey guys, i return with another question. I have about 19 cm hands, i play with a hibrid grip, between palm and claw (not fingertip, more towards palm grip) and i want to buy a Zowie ZA. I realy don't know wich one to buy. I have a FK1 and a EC2-A, i like the height of the EC2 and the lenght of FK1. I dig the FK1 shape more, but i lack the feeling of the rear side in my hand. Should i go for the ZA12?


----------



## Nardykil

If you hybrid grip, the ZA11 might be too long for you. I have 21cm long hands and can hybrid grip (palm/claw) the ZA11 at the front. Unless you don't mind that the ZA11 is longer than your fingers at the front, i'd go for the ZA12.


----------



## mousefan

Also my tip. Go for za 12 or 11.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> not sure about the glides (in the sense of material) but the feet are surely different size since za12-11 feet don't fit to za13, also it's very likely that they have different heights according to za11-12 users who enjoy the feet and za13'one who don't , for example ec2 pads were great and i never had this friction problems from the edges of the mouse.


I have both the ZA12 and ZA13 right now, side by side. I'm moving them back and forth, at 1600dpi. So exact same settings.

The ZA12 does seem to... glide better, too. Both my ZA12 and ZA13 are only seperated by 4 days of age, so while the ZA12's feets are slightly more worn-in, I don't know how much of a difference that makes. I can always replace it with the new feets and compare them again, but my bet is that the ZA12 will still end up gliding better.

As for those asking if the ZA13's feet have any sharp edges, I can confirm that mine is just as rounded as the ZA12. I do not feel any friction or scratching on my Puretrak Stealth pad, so.. there's that.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> I have both the ZA12 and ZA13 right now, side by side. I'm moving them back and forth, at 1600dpi. So exact same settings.
> 
> The ZA12 does seem to... glide better, too. Both my ZA12 and ZA13 are only seperated by 4 days of age, so while the ZA12's feets are slightly more worn-in, I don't know how much of a difference that makes. I can always replace it with the new feets and compare them again, but my bet is that the ZA12 will still end up gliding better.
> 
> As for those asking if the ZA13's feet have any sharp edges, I can confirm that mine is just as rounded as the ZA12. I do not feel any friction or scratching on my Puretrak Stealth pad, so.. there's that.


I didn't express myself correctlly, the feet are not sharp in the edges, they are just too slim/short causing the mouse edges to touch the pad and create some friction.
Indeed other zowie mouse feet i had glided better(ec2 cl,fk2,ec2-a) if hopefully hyperglide will release higher za13's feet the problem would be solved.
*edit Does anyone use frequently the scroll wheel to browse? Like everyone knows it's not the most solid scrollwheel ever and judging by the bad noise it produces after constantly scrolling for a while, maybe it would be a good idea to just use it in-game to bhopping etc. I'm not really sure if zowie's RMA would cover that breakage...


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azmath*
> 
> Hey guys, i return with another question. I have about 19 cm hands, i play with a hibrid grip, between palm and claw (not fingertip, more towards palm grip) and i want to buy a Zowie ZA. I realy don't know wich one to buy. I have a FK1 and a EC2-A, i like the height of the EC2 and the lenght of FK1. I dig the FK1 shape more, but i lack the feeling of the rear side in my hand. Should i go for the ZA12?


I was exactly like you and I ended up with the ZA11, I think its okay. But, I can't help but think I would of been more happy with the ZA12.


----------



## Ka0sX

I think i would be more happy with thw ZA series Za11 if it was not for that gawd awfull lipp at the front mouse is back in its box

Back to the rival i guess


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> I think i would be more happy with thw ZA series Za11 if it was not for that gawd awfull lipp at the front mouse is back in its box


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> I think i would be more happy with thw ZA series Za11 if it was not for that gawd awfull lipp at the front mouse is back in its box
> 
> Back to the rival i guess


It's amazing how much a shell means more than internals to us. I can easily see how it can be a deal breaker.

The way I hold the mouse I don't have my fingers on the side lip and when I do it doesn't bother me. I really like the feel of the ZA12 in my hand, wouldn't change a thing.

I recently was able to pass up the Mionix Castor in last nights Massdrop deadline for $55 because it would mean not using the ZA. I may have found my mouse for awhile.









The upcoming Ducky Secret is another story. I've got to try that for the cherry mx mouse buttons.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I've got to try that for the cherry mx mouse buttons.


you're not talking about the keyboard cherry mx's right? idk about you but 4mm travel in a mouse button seems excessive


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> you're not talking about the keyboard cherry mx's right? idk about you but 4mm travel in a mouse button seems excessive


I'm not sure what to expect when ducky says they got a mouse coming. I didn't think any specifics are out on that yet.

EDIT: I did find the Ducky Secret thread here - Ducky *PBT body* & D2F-01F Omrons. Can't wait, but that's for another thread.


----------



## HITTI

After one rma and waiting on this second rma of the deathadder 2013. I am fed up with razer. I dropped 69 bucks on a ZA11. Be here next week. I like that there are no drivera needed. Razer software was imbedded so badly i had to use safe mode to delete the software off my pc and as far as using sc delete deleting the service. Never again will razer see me.

Hello Zowie, here i come.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's amazing how much a shell means more than internals to us.


How is this amazingly surprising to you?


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> How is this amazingly surprising to you?


I said this. "Amazing" in the sense even if you told someone the sensor in thier mosue isn't as good as another, but they like the shell, we don't care. Some people are stuck on the "perfect" sensor but the majority cares about the feel of the shell.


----------



## Zares

I have Roccat Kone Pure Military now and I am thinking of sending it back and purchasing Zowie ZA13. Why? I have small hands and shape of Roccat's right side isn't comfortable for little finger which contacts only in one spot and the rest of the finger is in the air. I can't palm it because there is an edge. Any1 has the same problem as me and ZA13 was more comfortable for him/her? I have 16,5cm hand :S and use a palm grip in games.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> I have Roccat Kone Pure Military now and I am thinking of sending it back and purchasing Zowie ZA13. Why? I have small hands and shape of Roccat's right side isn't comfortable for little finger which contacts only in one spot and the rest of the finger is in the air. I can't palm it because there is an edge.


The KPM is designed for a Medium-Sized Right Hand. YES the ZA13 might be your savior here due to it being a little bit smaller.


----------



## benbenkr

Agreed, ZA13 would be very nice for a 16.5cm length hand, 7.5cm width palm.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> Agreed, ZA13 would be very nice for a 16.5cm length hand, 7.5cm width palm.


That's me







And it is good.


----------



## Zares

Thanks for all replies!

And what about that butt? Was it weird and hard to get used to it? I read that because of that butt there is strange weight balance.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> Thanks for all replies!
> 
> And what about that butt? Was it weird and hard to get used to it? I read that because of that butt there is strange weight balance.


I came from very low butt mices (Naos/Avior 7000, FK2, Razer DA 1.8), so the butt did felt a little bit awkward at first but I actually like it after about 2 weeks of usage.
Going back to the Naos/Avior now, I'd feel a hollow void in my palm.


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> Thanks for all replies!
> 
> And what about that butt? Was it weird and hard to get used to it? I read that because of that butt there is strange weight balance.


Yes the butt would have been ok for me (ZA-11) had the mouse been large enough for a true palm grip. I'm now using the ZA-11 with a semi-figertip (relaxed claw) and I have gotten used to it. I like to rest my hand on the butt when I'm not in the heat of battle, say if I'm just moving to a location (FPS) and it's kinda nice. I will say that now that I'm used to it I have less pinky fatigue (old football injury) than I did with my g9x.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> Thanks for all replies!
> 
> And what about that butt? Was it weird and hard to get used to it? I read that because of that butt there is strange weight balance.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> I came from very low butt mices (Naos/Avior 7000, FK2, Razer DA 1.8), so the butt did felt a little bit awkward at first but I actually like it after about 2 weeks of usage.
> Going back to the Naos/Avior now, I'd feel a hollow void in my palm.


When I had the ZA13 my hand would start to cramp after a few hours of gaming. It was just a tad too small being thinner in the center and lower in the rear.

Some might complain but the elevated rear fills my palm and fingers rest comfortably right on the tips of buttons 1&2. I used to be primarily a hybrid claw palm grip, when I got the ZA12 it felt more natural to palm the mouse based on my 18 cm size hand. I can still use hybrid claw palm grip during intense gaming. It's very comfortable now to me and I can game all day without any issues. I'm enjoying the control I have regardless of movements and I haven't been this happy with a mouse since savu.

The great thing about this series is depending on your hand size you can find the size that fits you. For those who like lower mice this is a deal-breaker but for others it's a deal-maker.

The only caveat is the scroll wheel not having the kind of quality like the my KPO. In CSGO if you bind jump to the scroll wheel it may have issues. Pressing down on the scroll wheel though feels good and solid, so not sure why this happens. Scroll wheel does not rattle back-and-forth when shaken.

When lifting the mouse I do not have any weight issues or feel any weight issues when picking it up to swipe fast. It's my first zowie mouse and I have no complaints. It's nice not having to install drivers or intrusive software. I even have a second ZA12 at the office.


----------



## HITTI

I am now a proud owner of the ZA11. I love that it doesn't detect lift off. Plug n play is what I did. Smooth action in games. Love it.

Edit:
If you like to control the buttons of the zowie I came across this app. Works out, it disabled my back forward for browser action of button 4 and 5.
http://www.highrez.co.uk/downloads/XMouseButtonControl.htm


----------



## AresTheGod

Hi everyone!
After 2 days of use of my Zowie ZA11, I'm realy happy that i choose this mice. I'm left handed soo there i nnot a lot of good mice for me.
First,I love the simplicity of the design, black with the logo in white, just perfect.
The surface is realy nice under the hand compared to the Steelseries Sensei (my old mice).
The mice is good under the hand for a "Claw grip" user.
To resume, this mice is realy good for left handed like me but the only thing is the price. But when you seethe quality of the mice you can understand it.


----------



## Zares

After 2 days of using ZA13 after Roccat Kone Pure Military I can tell:
Zowie:
+ rounded shape is better than edgy Roccat (right side of it)
+ it's symmetrical, better for fast movements at low sensitivity and for lifting the mouse
+ coating is better
+ simple design
+ nice smell of fresh








+/- skates are thin, slower - better in drag (flick) shots, fast movements, worse in slow movements
+/- no software, I can plug it and play, fine on LANs, etc. but I liked configurable buttons and awesome Roccat software
+/- scroll isn't as sharp as Roccat, has 1-2mm space between scrolling, but I have better feeling with it
+/- butt is less comfortable than Roccat's, little cramp while intensive playing, I really have hope that I will get used to it after 2 weeks (as someone said above)
+/- main buttons are very hard (not sure if I translated it correctly), I need more power to push them.
+/- rubbed soft cable - better in fast movements, but when on pad can slightly lower speed.
- side buttons are too soft, I'm afraid that they will break like in Deathadder

Roccat:
+ butt is I think slightly more comfortable than Zowie's or it's a matter of get used to that second
+ better buttons for spamming f.e. TEC9, better side buttons
+ better side buttons
+ better, faster and thicker skates
+ sharp scrolling
+ awesome software with easy shift configurable buttons
- edged right side of the mouse causing me pain in little finger and bad feel of palming the mouse.
- no symmetrical

And I'm wondering what should I do now. Tomorrow is the last day I can return Roccat. I'd like to keep them both, but prices are so high here in Poland that I think I can't do that. 250PLN ($66,3) for Zowie ZA13. $341 theoretical min. monthly salary here. In reality ~$245-$310.

Why am I writing this? Because I have to make a decision what mouse to keep until tomorrow. Of course I can return Roccat and I still have 12 days to return Zowie if I don't get used to it. But come on, there is no more good small mice, I think, with butt which is more in the back and not in the front/center. I didn't play with more flat mice like fk2, maybe this is solution, I don't know, I like when my palm contacts the mouse as much as possible. Probably if Roccat had more rounded sides it would be perfect mouse for me.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> After 2 days of using ZA13 after Roccat Kone Pure Military I can tell:
> Zowie:
> + rounded shape is better than edgy Roccat (right side of it)
> + it's symmetrical, better for fast movements at low sensitivity and for lifting the mouse
> + coating is better
> + simple design
> + nice smell of fresh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +/- skates are thin, slower - better in drag (flick) shots, fast movements, worse in slow movements
> +/- no software, I can plug it and play, fine on LANs, etc. but I liked configurable buttons and awesome Roccat software
> +/- scroll isn't as sharp as Roccat, has 1-2mm space between scrolling, but I have better feeling with it
> +/- butt is less comfortable than Roccat's, little cramp while intensive playing, I really have hope that I will get used to it after 2 weeks (as someone said above)
> +/- main buttons are very hard (not sure if I translated it correctly), I need more power to push them.
> +/- rubbed soft cable - better in fast movements, but when on pad can slightly lower speed.
> - side buttons are too soft, I'm afraid that they will break like in Deathadder
> 
> Why am I writing this? Because I have to make a decision what mouse to keep until tomorrow. Of course I can return Roccat and I still have 12 days to return Zowie if I don't get used to it. But come on, there is no more good small mice, I think, with butt which is more in the back and not in the front/center. I didn't play with more flat mice like fk2, maybe this is solution, I don't know, I like when my palm contacts the mouse as much as possible. Probably if Roccat had more rounded sides it would be perfect mouse for me.


About the back shape preference i think it's really a matter of habit of using the mouse , i've been using an ec1 for like an year then switched to ec2 because was more comfortable to my hand size and grip wise.
Switching to other mice from ec2 i ever felt this immediate problem to getting used to non-ergonomic shape mice expecially missing the right side support of ec2
using za13 after a while(1-2 weeks) i absolute got used to it, and going back to ec2 one of the things that most annoyed me was ectually the back shape , someway i ended up prefering za13 thanks to the raised back that give like more "response" and made my wrist movements faster or quicker.
Anyway if you want a cheaper alternative to za13 you could also look to g100s or rog sica both similar shape and size, probably not at the same quality level as za13 ,for example g100s has a pretty awful doubleclick problem on several units nevertheless many cs pros use it, so it could be much about getting the good unit...


----------



## Steele84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> After 2 days of using ZA13 after Roccat Kone Pure Military I can tell:
> Zowie:
> 
> +/- scroll isn't as sharp as Roccat, has 1-2mm space between scrolling, but I have better feeling with it


Yeah I loath the scroll wheel on my ZA-11. Other than that it's a great mouse, but I had to alter bindings because of the crappy scroll wheel.


----------



## Nardykil

Agreed, the scroll wheel is really really bad :/


----------



## spessu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I changed the internals of my ZA12 to my AM-FG. Very easy mod.


I found that ZA12 internals didn't fit into the AM-GS shell. I first thought it was the cable hole being too small so I made it bigger but it didn't work. I tried for a long time without succeeding.

Now I'm thinking of either getting FK2 (with decreased/fixed click latency hopefully) or just getting another shell for ZA12 and trying again.

People reported of the following successful switches on page 122 in this thread:

ZA12 into FK1
ZA12 into AM-FG
ZA13 into FK2

I'm not really interested in FK1 shell but rather FK2 but I'm not sure if this mod can be done between ZA12 and FK2. Has anyone tried? I wonder why this one guy managed to get ZA12 into AM-FG while I found it impossible to get into AM-GS. Shouldn't the AM shells be equal?

The reason why I want to change the shell or getting another Zowie mouse is that I don't like the hump. I've used my ZA12 for a bit over two weeks and it always takes at least 2 hours in the game to get my aim at comfortable level. The change from AM-GS into ZA12 was quite big.

*EDIT:* I'm so shamed to admit I made a stupid mistake trying to get the AM shell get over/on the ZA12 base. Didn't realize you actually had to take the circuit board off and install it on the base of the AM. Now I've done this mod and it works.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spessu*
> 
> I found that ZA12 internals didn't fit into the AM-GS shell. I first thought it was the cable hole being too small so I made it bigger but it didn't work. I tried for a long time without succeeding.


Hmm, that is weird. Could you take pictures of the inside of the shell? I'm sure somebody can help you out.

Btw, I'd stick with the 3090 sensor unless you need the high max tracking speed. On the right surface, the 3090 has less variance.


----------



## wmoftw

Can anyone comment on fitting ZA internals in a FK2 in regards to the stiff clicks? I heard the FK2 stiffness was due to the shell, so I heard replacing the PCB doesn't really solve the issue. FK2 shape is great, buttons are the worst thing ever. Is there any mod to make them not as stiff?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Can anyone comment on fitting ZA internals in a FK2 in regards to the stiff clicks? I heard the FK2 stiffness was due to the shell, so I heard replacing the PCB doesn't really solve the issue. FK2 shape is great, buttons are the worst thing ever. Is there any mod to make them not as stiff?


http://futabatei4mei.blogspot.com/2013/05/zowie-fk.html

http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/30_30#post_23825166
http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/60_30#post_23825692


----------



## Zares

If you don't like the shape of ZAx, instead of that one, you like FK shape, so why did u buy it? For better buttons? Why don't you just buy another flat mouse with better buttons like Mionix Avior?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> If you don't like the shape of ZAx, instead of that one, you like FK shape, so why did u buy it? For better buttons? Why don't you just buy another flat mouse with better buttons like Mionix Avior?


bought a bunch at once, FK clicks were awful, ZA clicks were much better. I tried to use the FK, but the stiffness was too much. Other mice are too heavy (over 90g)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> If you don't like the shape of ZAx, instead of that one, you like FK shape, so why did u buy it? For better buttons? Why don't you just buy another flat mouse with better buttons like Mionix Avior?


I don't think the Avior 7000 has better buttons than the FK mice. They have lighter switches, but the overall performance isn't better.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't think the Avior 7000 has better buttons than the FK mice. They have lighter switches, *but the overall performance isn't better*.


That's entirely subjective. It's like saying cherry blue > cherry brown or vice versa.

I love the huanos in the ZA12 and I do prefer them to omrons of any kind, *but they are only better only if I like them more*.


----------



## Zares

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't think the Avior 7000 has better buttons than the FK mice. They have lighter switches, but the overall performance isn't better.


Is it your personal opinion or you based on some reviews?







There is a polish site, where they test components, especially mice and in Avior's test they wrote:

Overall click rating: 4.5/5 (5 is the best)
Click softness: 3/5 (5 is the hardest)
Click loudness: 2/3 (3 is the loudest)
Also they wrote that, although the buttons aren't the softest ones, they return back very fast, so they can be clicked very fast.

While the ZA:

Overall click rating: 4/5 (5 is the best)
Click softness: 4/5 (5 is the hardest)
Click loudness: 3/3 (3 is the loudest)
And here they wrote that the ZA buttons are fast and sharp compared to the FK buttons.

As to me, I can't compare Avior to ZA and rating above isn't mine opinion but professional testers'. I'd like to have it and compare them by myself, but Avior is hard to buy here in Poland, only one shop is selling them, but the price is a killer - 280PLN (about $74), while expensive ZA - 249PLN ($66). Maybe I'll buy it for $40 at the massdrop.

But it would be nice if someone who has ZA and Avior would write a comparison about shape, feeling and buttons.

And for the end sorry for my english, I'm not sure if everything is translated correctly (f.e. buttons rating and description - I read these mice tests in polish language)


----------



## wmoftw

I am going to dremel out the inside back of my ZA13, or buy a ZA12 and do it. Something is wrong when this mouse feels way heavier than a wmo, but it's identical in weight. I'm hoping I can balance out the weight so the mouse feels even, and maybe shave 3-5g off (to bring a ZA12 to 80g). I'll post back if it works well and what I dremeled


----------



## a_ak57

The ZA13 probably seems heavier than the WMO because it's a shorter and thinner mouse so that weight is more concentrated (like how the Kone Pure Military feels heavier than the 90-whatever grams it weighs). And there's also the ZA being more back heavy due to the hump placement.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> The ZA13 probably seems heavier than the WMO because it's a shorter and thinner mouse so that weight is more concentrated (like how the Kone Pure Military feels heavier than the 90-whatever grams it weighs). And there's also the ZA being more back heavy due to the hump placement.


thicker cable on the wmo leads people to think the mouse is heavier than it is as well. I always just assumed they used more dense plastic compared to the wmo, hence the heavier feel. The hump thing is an issue though, other mice have similar humps but the mouse still feels balanced.


----------



## Zares

What are you talking about? Hold ZA with 2 fingers at the center and lift it - it's still horizontal in the air, so I think it's balanced


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> What are you talking about? Hold ZA with 2 fingers at the center and lift it - it's still horizontal in the air, so I think it's balanced


this mouse is as balanced as a fat kid on a seesaw. there is a lot more weight in the back compared to the front, and the hump isn't the reason, it's the density of the plastic and the design. this mouse isn't balanced at all.


----------



## spessu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spessu*
> 
> *EDIT:* *EDIT:* I'm so shamed to admit I made a stupid mistake trying to get the AM shell get over/on the ZA12 base. Didn't realize you actually had to take the circuit board off and install it on the base of the AM. Now I've done this mod and it works.


By the way, the buttons after this mod are much easier to press on my AM and actually they feel lighter than on Zowie ZA12. This is probably either because of the used (over 3 years) Zowie AM shell or because of my hybrid grip on Zowie ZA12 (back of my hand rested on the mousepad, not on the mouse)... and it seems the Huano blue are indeed lighter to click.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> That's entirely subjective. It's like saying cherry blue > cherry brown or vice versa.
> 
> I love the huanos in the ZA12 and I do prefer them to omrons of any kind, *but they are only better only if I like them more*.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> Is it your personal opinion or you based on some reviews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a polish site, where they test components, especially mice and in Avior's test they wrote:
> 
> Overall click rating: 4.5/5 (5 is the best)
> Click softness: 3/5 (5 is the hardest)
> Click loudness: 2/3 (3 is the loudest)
> Also they wrote that, although the buttons aren't the softest ones, they return back very fast, so they can be clicked very fast.
> 
> While the ZA:
> 
> Overall click rating: 4/5 (5 is the best)
> Click softness: 4/5 (5 is the hardest)
> Click loudness: 3/3 (3 is the loudest)
> And here they wrote that the ZA buttons are fast and sharp compared to the FK buttons.
> 
> As to me, I can't compare Avior to ZA and rating above isn't mine opinion but professional testers'. I'd like to have it and compare them by myself, but Avior is hard to buy here in Poland, only one shop is selling them, but the price is a killer - 280PLN (about $74), while expensive ZA - 249PLN ($66). Maybe I'll buy it for $40 at the massdrop.
> 
> But it would be nice if someone who has ZA and Avior would write a comparison about shape, feeling and buttons.
> 
> And for the end sorry for my english, I'm not sure if everything is translated correctly (f.e. buttons rating and description - I read these mice tests in polish language)


http://www.overclock.net/t/1469836/mionix-avior-7000-first-impressions-review/1790#post_23838154


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> thicker cable on the wmo leads people to think the mouse is heavier than it is as well. I always just assumed they used more dense plastic compared to the wmo, hence the heavier feel. The hump thing is an issue though, other mice have similar humps but the mouse still feels balanced.


If you really want a very light WMO need to replace the mouse cable STAT.

I replaced mine with a new Deathadder cable bought off Ebay and it's amazing how this mouse now feels, quite manoeuvrable.


----------



## koxy

After week of using zowie ZA12 comapred to G502 i can tell almost everything in za12 is better except sensor. 3366 is superior to 3310 no doubt, also have to block other sides buttons, so annoying when accidently pressed them with my ring finger,however when you block side buttons you cant change dpi.Anyway great mouse i wish Zowie put 3366 sensor into their new mouses.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *koxy*
> 
> After week of using zowie ZA12 comapred to G502 i can tell almost everything in za12 is better except sensor. 3366 is superior to 3310 no doubt, also have to block other sides buttons, so annoying when accidently pressed them with my ring finger,however when you block side buttons you cant change dpi.Anyway great mouse i wish Zowie put 3366 sensor into their new mouses.


How do you, _block_ the side buttons?


----------



## koxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> How do you, _block_ the side buttons?


Just roll piece of paper and put into *****(im not sure is correct word) between side buttons


----------



## mint567

I'm still debating on getting this mouse and hopefully using it daily and not just to add to my collection. The dilemma is between the ZA11 or ZA12. My aim is great with the FK2 but it cramps my hand so bad and makes my wrist hurt when I use it. The downfall is my aim is great with the FK2. I use the Deathadder and the Rival with no hand cramping/wrist problems but I can't "control" the aim as I do with the FK2 in CSGO. With the larger mice I tend to use a higher sensitivity than I do with smaller mice due to grip/size.

Does anyone have a recommendation of the ZA11 or ZA12? My fear is with the ZA12 I may get pains as well and with the ZA11 it may have the same feel as with the deathadder/rival as far as control. I would order it and return if it doesn't work but normally if I buy a mouse it stays in the collection even if I don't use it.


----------



## koxy

Man just "abuse" amazon and try them both, have 14 days to send it back


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *koxy*
> 
> Man just "abuse" amazon and try them both, have 14 days to send it back


That's why the price of the ZA-11,12,&13 are higher on amazon now.


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> That's why the price of the ZA-11,12,&13 are higher on amazon now.


They'll also cancel your account after too many returns. Know a number of people this has happened to even for legitimate reasons.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> They'll also cancel your account after too many returns. Know a number of people this has happened to even for legitimate reasons.


That's not been my experience first hand. When I had a lot of returns in a row I was contacted by an amazon investigator. We had a nice conversation and I explained the reasons. My account was then "reset" for yet more returns


----------



## killuchen

Anybody here use the camade with their mouse? Am I suppose to have the cable dangle between the camade and the mouse or should I have it straightened?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Anybody here use the camade with their mouse? Am I suppose to have the cable dangle between the camade and the mouse or should I have it straightened?


give the cord some length, depending on your sens, you should give yourself enough mouse cord so your mouse can reach all areas of the mousepad (if you have a larger pad like the QCK+)

Like this, except much more cord (but again, this is because of my sens and the games I play, you might be on a higher sens, in which case you wouldn't need as much cord)

You will initially notice the weight of adding more cord, but after a minute of playing, you don't notice it.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> give the cord some length, depending on your sens, you should give yourself enough mouse cord so your mouse can reach all areas of the mousepad (if you have a larger pad like the QCK+)
> 
> Like this, except much more cord (but again, this is because of my sens and the games I play, you might be on a higher sens, in which case you wouldn't need as much cord)
> 
> You will initially notice the weight of adding more cord, but after a minute of playing, you don't notice it.


Ahhh thank you for the reply. I'm using the ZA11 on a Zowie G-SR. My sense in csgo is 800 dpi @ 1.5 in game sense. The mouse is awesome so far but the middle mouse buttoner is so bad -_-.


----------



## Twiffle




----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> They'll also cancel your account after too many returns. Know a number of people this has happened to even for legitimate reasons.


Anyone know which reason to use on Amazon? I don't wanna pay for return shipping, last time I picked I didnt like it and paid $8 to ship it


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Anyone know which reason to use on Amazon? I don't wanna pay for return shipping, last time I picked I didnt like it and paid $8 to ship it


Just say the thing is defective. No problem then.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Just say the thing is defective. No problem then.


wait, they seriously dont check if it works??









i see why people use amazon now


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> wait, they seriously dont check if it works??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i see why people use amazon now


I've never had an issue. Could jist say it's too small & cramps your hand as well. You'll be A-Ok.


----------



## Nardykil

At least in germany, amazon covers the return costs.


----------



## AyeOkay

Are there any aftermarket mouse feet for the ZA13?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeOkay*
> 
> Are there any aftermarket mouse feet for the ZA13?


email hyperglides and bug them to make ZA13 feet. I did and no reply. I don't think there's any (decent) aftermarket feet for the ZA13. Don't listen to the silly people here who tell you to cut up bigger feet for them to fit.


----------



## deewe

Got ZA13 today, scroll wheel was rattling so much that i could hear it easily when i moved the mouse. I opened and put some cleartape around those "legs" that are securing the wheel in place, that fixed it








Im really digging the shape of ZA13 and the coating is amazing for my hands.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deewe*
> 
> Got ZA13 today, scroll wheel was rattling so much that i could hear it easily when i moved the mouse. I opened and put some cleartape around those "legs" that are securing the wheel in place, that fixed it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im really digging the shape of ZA13 and the coating is amazing for my hands.


Glad to hear that. my ZA12 was a bit too big for me, so returning it to get ZA13. It is a great mouse I must say. Also the feet are much better than on EC-A series.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AyeOkay*
> 
> Are there any aftermarket mouse feet for the ZA13?
> 
> 
> 
> email hyperglides and bug them to make ZA13 feet. I did and no reply. I don't think there's any (decent) aftermarket feet for the ZA13. Don't listen to the silly people here who tell you to cut up bigger feet for them to fit.
Click to expand...

Just use HyperGlide IE 3.0 feet and stick them in the same position as I have done on previous IE 3.0s in the past







.


----------



## BeeQAL

I highly recommend this mouse to anyone with the caveats being the shape and size selection which is highly subjective so depends on your personal preferences. Zowie have done an outstanding job with their implementation of the 3310 sensor. This mouse and the Deathadder 3.5G Black Edition were my favorites so were my daily drivers until I got a mouse with the 3366 sensor (G303). I can easily and happily live with this mouse from here on if I didn't get used to the G303.

I specifically have the ZA13 which I actually think is a tad too small for my tastes and I have small to medium hands. Although, it must be said that I don't have issues playing with larger mice that I own such as the IE 3.0 and Deathadders so take that as you will.

Awesome mouse.


----------



## AyeOkay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> email hyperglides and bug them to make ZA13 feet. I did and no reply. I don't think there's any (decent) aftermarket feet for the ZA13. Don't listen to the silly people here who tell you to cut up bigger feet for them to fit.


I emailed them and got a response "not soon". Meh.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeOkay*
> 
> Are there any aftermarket mouse feet for the ZA13?


If you're up for a little bit of DIY, get the Hotline Gaming feets: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-AM-FK-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-0-5mm-/111314116065?var=&hash=item5f881c39e7

Then trim about 2mm or so of the edges. It's a little bit of a hassle, but I did do it with my extra feets that I got for my ZA12 and applied it to the ZA13.
This is currently the best alternative other than waiting for Hyperglide, which could be... never?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeOkay*
> 
> I emailed them and got a response "not soon". Meh.


at least you got a reply, I never did. Looks like the best that's available is replacement zowie mouse feet.

I might buy a ZA12 and dremel out some inside plastic to drop the weight, just so I can get hyperglides.


----------



## favoxhille

These days i'm using the kinzu v3 and i have to say is definetely more balanced than za13 mouse which is very similar to. Hump and shape wise the kinzu is better the only thing i regret is the space in the end to put the ring finger that is just too small on the kinzu, and obviously sensor,button switches and mwheel are all much better on za13. If zowie make a smaller version of fk or ec2 it would be perfect to have 117 mm lenght it feels just much better to claw.


----------



## bern43

My ZA12 seems to track on its own. I'm using a 4hd mouspad and after I stop the mouse the cursor just keeps moving sometimes. Anybody else experience this? Is this because I didn't adjust the LOD for a hard pad? I'm guessing I'm going to need to put in for a replacement through amazon. Love the mouse otherwise.


----------



## Zares

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bern43*
> 
> My ZA12 seems to track on its own. I'm using a 4hd mouspad and after I stop the mouse the cursor just keeps moving sometimes. Anybody else experience this? Is this because I didn't adjust the LOD for a hard pad?


Try to adjust the LOD then. Things that come to my mind:

Acceleration on in Windows/game?
Monitor lag?
Hair/something got into the sensor?


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zares*
> 
> Try to adjust the LOD then. Things that come to my mind:
> 
> Acceleration on in Windows/game?
> Monitor lag?
> Hair/something got into the sensor?


I use the Zowie G-SR with my ZA11. Do I need to adjust the LoD at all?


----------



## Zares

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I use the Zowie G-SR with my ZA11. Do I need to adjust the LoD at all?


I don't know how about ZA model but FK1 has default LoD setting at very low, which is for cloth pads (f.e. G-SR). I use G-SR as well and didn't adjust LoD - no problems. Look at this: http://www.test-gear.pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/zowie-za-kompatybilnosc-i-lod.jpg
Sorry that in polish language but it's easy to understand - it shows the lowest LOD settings that sensor can work without problems on different mats. Mat; compatibility; LOD (measured in Compact Disk = 1.2mm = 1CD)


----------



## Chuck89

I have had an Avior SK for nearly 1,5 years now and in the last few months it developed some issues - namely with the mouse wheel. Right now, the middle click stopped working entirely. I already asked Mionix for a replacement under warranty, which shouldnt be a problem. However, i need to send the mouse back to sweden first and wait a few weeks as they dont have any Avior SK in store.

This means, that i will need a new mouse as soon as possible.

My hands are about 20cm in length, my preferred grip is a claw/palm hybrid (sometimes its a relaxed palm, and sometimes more like a claw grip) and im a high sensitivity user.

A few months ago i considered the Zowie ZA11 or ZA12 as a worthy successor to my problematic Avior. Apparently, the mouse wheels of Zowie mice arent that great as well.

So, would this be a good alternative? Which size would be more suitable in my case - the ZA11 or the ZA12?


----------



## suneatshours86

za 12 compared to xai/sensei shape? any pic?

I owned fk1 and 2: really good mice but... felt like "I'm not at home" with these shape.


----------



## Aventadoor

Zowie is much narrower then Steelseries, and thats why Steelseries feel better, cause they have some girth!








Even Kana have more girth then a FK1/ZA11


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Zowie is much narrower then Steelseries, and thats why Steelseries feel better, cause they have some girth!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Kana have more girth then a FK1/ZA11


Kana has the same width as ZA11 iirc, the new Rival 100 definitely has exactly the same width. But ZA11 has more height than both which is why I prefer the ZA11 shape over the Sensei actually.


----------



## Aventadoor

My kana V2 measures a few mm wider. it also feels wider
And when I hold them up against each other the kana v2 slightly wider.
Note that this is on the point where u actually grip the mouse.


----------



## Ino.

I mean the middle section, basically below the mouse4 button. Even Sensei isn't much wider than the ZA11, it just flares outside at the top part (near the buttons) a bit more. I just held all of them side by side and the difference is really small.


----------



## Scrimstar

any comparison in feel and size for ZA 11 / 12 to EC1-a / Mionix Castor/ Naos 7000

Naos feels great, castor is just a bit small, ec1a hump killed me and was a bit too narrow

19x9cm hands


----------



## koxy

FM2015 vs Zowie ZAxx, which one is better for you and why?, i'm interested in people opinion mostly about sensor feeling and performance in both mices


----------



## Scrimstar

I got the ZA11, much better than any other zowie mouse. there is much less travel time on the clicks, and the wheel is usable. im pleasantly surprised the right buttons dont get in the way almost at all









The only thing that bothers me is the slow skates, but i turned on accel to kinda balance it out, feels great so far. using gsr, and usually my mice fly over this.

Are the skates the same as FK/FK1?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=takasta12&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC6.A0.H0.Xzowie.TRS2&_nkw=zowie&_sacat=0


----------



## Aventadoor

Anyone seen Virtus Pro's Zowie mice?

http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/7311-full/1446866496.3961.jpeg


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Anyone seen Virtus Pro's Zowie mice?
> 
> http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/7311-full/1446866496.3961.jpeg


Snax has been using the gray variant for al long time.

I mentioned a long time ago that Pasha might move away from the Kinzu to a Zowie. Which he did, but it wasn't to the ZA13.

Neo switches between the EC, AM and FK.

Byali was switching mice, but tends to come back to the AM. It appears it performs better with the AM.

Taz switched to the gray EC instead of the standard EC/EC-CL.


----------



## Aventadoor

So thats why they are so bad


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> So thats why they are so bad


It seems like Pasha's and Byali's performance improved when they switched away from a Kinzu and Sensei to a FK and AM.

http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/7038-full/1440154098.3246.jpeg
http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/7038-full/1440106907.2552.jpeg


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> So thats why they are so bad


What a bait. 10/10


----------



## Aventadoor

I actually started to dislike the hump on the ZA11.
If FK1 just had same clicks feel & easyness


----------



## a_ak57

Well, if you're up for it you can carefully sand the inside of the FK shell where the M1/M2 pieces bend to make them a bit less stiff. Just have to be careful not to sand too much, obviously.


----------



## Scrimstar

are these the fastest feet outside of hyperglides? or should i just add the extra skates on top? the stock is so slow

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Gaming-Zowie-FK1-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/121597622252?var=&hash=item1c4fc877ec:m:mP7T1kVDZd35V3Zv-J5uiMQ


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Get the competition skates from takasta's shop. They're very slick once you break them in.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Get the competition skates from takasta's shop. They're very slick once you break them in.


They only have performance for this mouse!! I would definitely get those, but he doesnt have that model for everything


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Get the competition skates from takasta's shop. They're very slick once you break them in.
> 
> 
> 
> They only have performance for this mouse!! I would definitely get those, but he doesnt have that model for everything
Click to expand...

Just get smaller skates that would fit on your bezels.


----------



## favoxhille

Are there any alternative brand for zowie za13 mouse feet?

As far as i know the zowie speedy skates for za13 (which are the stock ones) are the only replacement avaible and this really bugs me out, because for example hyperglide has produced their new version for ec series even though there wasn't really a need since the stock ones are already fine, they are high enough and glide good. But za13 feet were the real need...
Anyway i wonder if the stock feet differ from batch to batch like kinzu v3 considering some users didn't complain, maybe i'll give a try to the extra pair in box.


----------



## a_ak57

You can just buy hyperglides for something like the IME 3.0 and apply those. It's not actually necessary to have the same exact feet.


----------



## favoxhille

mhh if i would try to cut them they would get jagged on the edges either way if i just apply them under mouse i would get several height differences with a worse result than not changing them at all


----------



## a_ak57

I mentioned the IME 3.0 feet because they're considerably smaller than the ZA13 feet, you wouldn't need to cut anything.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah just position them like the old MS mice. They are far better then the larger feet which get more and more drag as they wear.


----------



## CIV

I put the MS Hyperglides on my ZA13, just had to revert to the stock LoD as the extra height of the skates made it super low. The glides work awesome.


----------



## Scrimstar

whats the button commands from lowest to highest lod? my instructions only had l/r hand mode. fk1 and ec lod is a bit dif from each other, but za has nothing


----------



## kackbratze

The ZA is basically the EC-A in a different shape, right? Same sensor, same mousewheel, same switches?


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> The ZA is basically the EC-A in a different shape, right? Same sensor, same mousewheel, same switches?


It's the FK2 in a different shape. It's literally interchangeable down to the circuit board, mouse wheel, everything, only thing different is the upper shell (even the bottom shell is exactly the same).

EC series has a different board layout and different mouse wheel.


----------



## favoxhille

i guess the way to change lod for za must be either the ec or fk one


----------



## kackbratze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> It's the FK2 in a different shape. It's literally interchangeable down to the circuit board, mouse wheel, everything, only thing different is the upper shell (even the bottom shell is exactly the same).
> 
> EC series has a different board layout and different mouse wheel.


so, could you say one is better than the other? fk/za or ec-a? or which one is more frequently recommended?

any downsides to the ZA?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> so, could you say one is better than the other? fk/za or ec-a? or which one is more frequently recommended?
> 
> any downsides to the ZA?


No you couldn't say which one is better. If you want ambi get the ZA if you want ergo get the EC. Which mice do you like the shape of?


----------



## kackbratze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> No you couldn't say which one is better. If you want ambi get the ZA if you want ergo get the EC. Which mice do you like the shape of?


Thanks!

Well, I currently own the EC2-A but just can't find a comfortable grip. That's why I am selling it. I also own the G303 which is a great mouse except for the shape.

Actually, I don't think there is a perfect mouse for me but what came closest was something like the g100s/Ninox Aurora (which I also owned but the switches/buttons stopped registering input... and the Ninox Aurora stopped working as well).

Is the ZA13 comparable to the Aurora/g100s? They are rather flat and the ZA have that strange bumpy thing in the back.... I am desperate.


----------



## a_ak57

If you think you'd like a flatter mouse then you could just go with the FK line. The hump of the ZA line is pretty prominent.


----------



## CIV

I rocked the FK2 for a long time, loved it. Switched to the ZA13 just because it was new and didn't want to wait for the new re branded FK2. The ZA13's hump threw me off for a week, but it's so small and thin, it's not a true palm like I would guess the ZA11/12 is. I love the thing now, and the low profile of the FK2 feels weird to me now. Both are legit though.


----------



## derrison

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> I have had an Avior SK for nearly 1,5 years now and in the last few months it developed some issues - namely with the mouse wheel. Right now, the middle click stopped working entirely. I already asked Mionix for a replacement under warranty, which shouldnt be a problem. However, i need to send the mouse back to sweden first and wait a few weeks as they dont have any Avior SK in store.
> 
> This means, that i will need a new mouse as soon as possible.
> 
> My hands are about 20cm in length, my preferred grip is a claw/palm hybrid (sometimes its a relaxed palm, and sometimes more like a claw grip) and im a high sensitivity user.
> 
> A few months ago i considered the Zowie ZA11 or ZA12 as a worthy successor to my problematic Avior. Apparently, the mouse wheels of Zowie mice arent that great as well.
> 
> So, would this be a good alternative? Which size would be more suitable in my case - the ZA11 or the ZA12?


Don't think I saw anyone reply to this, so I will.

I've used an the Avior since its release. ZA will be a nice transition. Go with the 11 or the 12, probably the 11. The Avior feels bigger than it really is. 13 will be way too small.


----------



## favoxhille

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Well, I currently own the EC2-A but just can't find a comfortable grip. That's why I am selling it. I also own the G303 which is a great mouse except for the shape.
> 
> Actually, I don't think there is a perfect mouse for me but what came closest was something like the g100s/Ninox Aurora (which I also owned but the switches/buttons stopped registering input... and the Ninox Aurora stopped working as well).
> 
> Is the ZA13 comparable to the Aurora/g100s? They are rather flat and the ZA have that strange bumpy thing in the back.... I am desperate.


from specs the za13 should have the same heigth as g100s and from pics it looks very similar in the position as well (maybe in the za it's a bit more pushed back)
unfortunately the za13 is longer than the g100s i would've actually preferred it to be a bit shorter like 115-117mm


----------



## illitirit

Has anyone succesfully used the hyperglides made for the ZA11/12 and put them on the ZA13?

I didnt even look when i purchased the ZA series hyperglides since i thought it would fit all of them. Now I find out it wont.

If I slap them on the ZA13 would it still work optimally?

I have an FK2 sitting in front of me and ordered a ZA13 since I want an even smaller mouse. Does anyone know if the scroll wheel feels the same on these two mice? The FK2 scroll wheel feels like cheap trash. I hope the ZA13 is not the same.


----------



## a_ak57

Well, you might be disappointed with the ZA13 if you want something smaller than the FK2. Yeah it's shorter front to back, but the hump (thus arc length) is bigger on the ZA so in-hand it doesn't feel any smaller IMO. And the scroll wheel is the same since they use they use the same internals.


----------



## illitirit

I actualy bought a ZA13 today to compare it to the FK2. Turns out the ZA13 is actually a tiny bit smaller overall, which helps my fingers actually reach the top portion of the mouse better which was what I was looking for.

However, I have another problem now that I dont know if its a manufacturing defect or what but the ZA13 i just got both left and right clicks sound and feel extremely different. The right mouse button is easier to press, the left mouse button feels the same as the FK2 requiring more strength. It feels really odd, almost like the left and right buttons are using completely different switches. The scroll wheel also feels completely different to the FK2, worse actually. It feels looser and flimsier, the FK2, while the sound of the scroll wheel sounds like trash, at least the scroll wheel is sturdy.

Not sure if I should return it and try again, but the shape of the ZA13 is exactly what I want. Im just not sure if it is exhibiting normal behavior, can anyone chime in on this?


----------



## Scrimstar

zowie has terrible button implementation, the gap on ur lmb is probably a lot bigger. my za11 wheel is kinda mushy like an old ms mouse


----------



## fuzzybass

IME, differences between LMB and RMB occur with most mice, but of course, some instances are worse than others. For me personally, I've gotten tired of returning items due to "imperfections" or variances in manufacture tolerance like that, so I've told myself not to return items unless there's an obvious defect (like parts not actually working or being broken). Your switches still seem to work fine, so I don't know...

If it really is that bad, though, and if it's going to bother you, it doesn't hurt to return it. It's all up to you.


----------



## illitirit

Just want to update about hyperglides working with ZA13.

I purchased the ZA11/12 hyperglide set before knowing they did not work with ZA13. Got them in the mail today and double stacked them on top of my existing OEM feet.

Works perfect. Only real issue is the skates are maybe 1.5mm bigger than the ZA13 ones. However, there is no way to see any white stuff protruding under the mouse when usingg normally so it does not bother me.

The skates are pretty pricey, i believe 13$ usd from amazon and if you were to ask me are they smoother than the stock ones? Yes, but only by like 10% improvement. Really small difference. I think the stock skates are very good.


----------



## emilyheskey

ZOWIE za 13 scroll wheel FFS, it is scrolling down one click randomly when i press the left click.

This is just ridiculous... gona have to RMA and play no CSGO for like a month while they replace.

really pi$$ed off


----------



## korgi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Just want to update about hyperglides working with ZA13.
> 
> I purchased the ZA11/12 hyperglide set before knowing they did not work with ZA13. Got them in the mail today and double stacked them on top of my existing OEM feet.
> 
> Works perfect. Only real issue is the skates are maybe 1.5mm bigger than the ZA13 ones. However, there is no way to see any white stuff protruding under the mouse when usingg normally so it does not bother me.
> 
> The skates are pretty pricey, i believe 13$ usd from amazon and if you were to ask me are they smoother than the stock ones? Yes, but only by like 10% improvement. Really small difference. I think the stock skates are very good.


Hey, I am already on my second pair of stock skates and was seeing if there was a way to put the hyperglides on these. Can you explain what you did with a little more detail? Pictures maybe? Please?









I was thinking of maybe cutting a bit off or something...


----------



## a_ak57

Cutting hyperglides ruins part of the point of them. As has been said a few times, just buy some IME3.0 hyperglides and throw them on. You don't actually have to use mouse feet the same as the originals.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah its like buying a house and thinking you have to keep the old rugs.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *korgi*
> 
> Hey, I am already on my second pair of stock skates and was seeing if there was a way to put the hyperglides on these. Can you explain what you did with a little more detail? Pictures maybe? Please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking of maybe cutting a bit off or something...


Lol I didn't do anything. I literally just stuck them on. No cutting no nothing. Straight out of the package and slapped them on. I did not remove the original feet, i double stacked the hyperglides on and its been working perfect now for days.

The ZA11/12 hyperglides are maybe 1mm larger, if not less than the ZA13 stock skates. I tried my absolute best to center them the best I could. They work just fine and even though they are not an exact fit, I cant see any white stuff from the bottom of my ZA13 when the mouse is upright and being used normally.

I suppose if you screw up on your first try you can always try again since they come with 2 sets in a package.

The one thing i noticed with the hyperglides are that they are not the smoothest when they were brand new. Now that I have been using them for a few days the glide has completely changed in my opinion. I am using an artisan Hayate Otsu Soft mousepad and the combo just glides like butter.


----------



## AyeOkay

When you stack mouse feet, are you not degrading the tracking performance?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AyeOkay*
> 
> When you stack mouse feet, are you not degrading the tracking performance?


The sensor is designed to operate within a certain range of height from the surface. That range is smaller than 1 pair of mouse feet.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The sensor is designed to operate within a certain range of height from the surface. That range is smaller than 1 pair of mouse feet.


I have stacked feet and the sensor feels fine


----------



## illitirit

For a test, I have a new Zowie FK2 that I was testing before I purchased the ZA13.

I enjoy the ZA13 more so the FK2 is going to be returned.

ZA13 has hyperglides stacked on top of stock feet

FK2 has stock zowie feet

I played CS:GO / League of legends for a good couple of hours to see if I would notice any difference between the two. I cant spot any. They both track the same, they both behave the same. Both mice were tested @ 6/11 windows, 800 dpi on the mouse, with MarkC acceleration fix installed.


----------



## raucous

Hi all

Can anyone help me as to which size mouse I might prefer - the larger ZA11 or smaller ZA12?

My hand is 18 and a bit CM and I would say it is small to medium.

I currently use the Deathadder and enjoy the full bodied shape. I have also tried the ECA-2 however I find I prefer the larger sized DA.

I have also tried the original Rival mouse which was a bit too large for my hand to reach the side buttons.

I position my hand quite forward on the mouse and I use a claw-palm style grip.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raucous*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Can anyone help me as to which size mouse I might prefer - the larger ZA11 or smaller ZA12?
> 
> My hand is 18 and a bit CM and I would say it is small to medium.
> 
> I currently use the Deathadder and enjoy the full bodied shape. I have also tried the ECA-2 however I find I prefer the larger sized DA.
> 
> I have also tried the original Rival mouse which was a bit too large for my hand.
> 
> I position my hand quite forward on the mouse and I use a claw-palm style grip.


ZA12 should suit 18cm hands fine.


----------



## Scrimstar

za12 is smaller than ec2, but za11 hump is quite big. it will not be the width or length that u wont fit


----------



## IlIkeJuice

ZA11 feels bigger than it looks. ZA12 would be more like WMO / EC2.


----------



## raucous

Thanks all

Thinking of trying out the ZA11 at some stage then. Although my hand is not large I position it quite forward on the mouse and I already think the ECA-2 is a bit too small. I don't want a ZA smaller than the ECA-2.


----------



## trifonov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> Can somebody explain, why the 3310 feels more accurate and responsive when using thicker/stacked feet? might have something to do with sensor/lens focus


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> tracking with stock feet feels like it might be failing to recocnize movements from very low speeds. maybe the extra height allows the sensor to "read" a bigger area and reduce the motion error?


maybe just because zowie's feet are TOO thin and the mouse lays on its' bottom so you can't do your micro movements proper.
(usually happens after about 1 week of usage when skates wear down enough not to be able to hold the mouse correctly not letting it touch the pad).


----------



## skuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> unfortunately no, you can only enable one side of 2 buttons at a time. TBH i'm not sure why they bother to create 3 different sizes but don't allow you to make the decision to have no side buttons on your mouse


oh wow. is this really true? if so, it's completely ******ed. i picked up mine and was searching for a way to enable them, this thread came up on google.i need both sides active, if it's impossible, this **** is going back like a frikkin boomerang...such idiocy....


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skuko*
> 
> oh wow. is this really true? if so, it's completely ******ed. i picked up mine and was searching for a way to enable them, this thread came up on google.i need both sides active, if it's impossible, this **** is going back like a frikkin boomerang...such idiocy....


This has been like this since the initial Zowie AM. Not surprising too, since many people hate triggering mouse buttons with their pinky. If only one side is active that problem does not exist, although the buttons can still be "in the way" sometimes.

I doubt Zowie will implement the option to activate both, they just see the thumb buttons as, well, thumb buttons for either right handed or left handed people.


----------



## favoxhille

zowie mice are conceived to fit to the needs of competitive gamers if you were looking for a fancy mouse with thousands of macros and lights this isn't the right choice


----------



## falcon26

Exactly. Which is why I got the ZA mouse. Its a gaming mouse, no facy LED crap or bloatware software to install....


----------



## HITTI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Exactly. Which is why I got the ZA mouse. Its a gaming mouse, no facy LED crap or bloatware software to install....


This is why I went with Zowie ZA11. Only software I use for it is x-mouse button control, that's for scroll page lines to be increased and disable Button 4 & 5 of the za11.


----------



## Lurtzae

I guess I'm using a palm grip mixed with a little claw grip and I'm right handed. Would you rather recommend the ZA 11 or the EC1?

Which function do the side buttons have in Windows, back and forward?


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *favoxhille*
> 
> zowie mice are conceived to fit to the needs of competitive gamers if you were looking for a fancy mouse with thousands of macros and lights this isn't the right choice


lol


----------



## hasukka

Anyone been able to test all the ZA models? Are clicks just as hard/soft in all of them?


----------



## emilyheskey

did RMA on my za13 which had scroll wheel bug. new one also got same problem.


----------



## el gappo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lurtzae*
> 
> I guess I'm using a palm grip mixed with a little claw grip and I'm right handed. Would you rather recommend the ZA 11 or the EC1?
> 
> Which function do the side buttons have in Windows, back and forward?


The 11 will be quite big and you'll struggle to claw it unless you have Shaq hands.

Yes, forwards and backwards


----------



## Re5in

look at this: http://zowie.benq.com/news/5/zowie-refreshes-its-product-line-up

Zowie is 'switching' to OMRONs ...


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> look at this: http://zowie.benq.com/news/5/zowie-refreshes-its-product-line-up
> 
> Zowie is 'switching' to OMRONs ...


Yeah, it's been known for a while. However the Omrons don't make a big difference in Zowies case. The shell is the culprit for making the clicks stiff.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> look at this: http://zowie.benq.com/news/5/zowie-refreshes-its-product-line-up
> 
> Zowie is 'switching' to OMRONs ...


http://www.overclock.net/t/1583687/zowie-get-omrons


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Yeah, it's been known for a while.


Alright, I see








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> However the Omrons don't make a big difference in Zowies case. The shell is the culprit for making the clicks stiff.


I cannot confirm here. I swapped the huanos out of my FK1 to some Omron D2F-01F and it feels quite nice.
Now I'm looking for a ZA12, cause the FK1 is a little too long for my hand and I like the shape of the 1.1 which Zowie finally has in the form of the ZA series. So regarding the new refurbished line, no need to solder anymore


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> Alright, I see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot confirm here. I swapped the huanos out of my FK1 to some Omron D2F-01F and it feels quite nice.
> Now I'm looking for a ZA12, cause the FK1 is a little too long for my hand and I like the shape of the 1.1 which Zowie finally has in the form of the ZA series. So regarding the new refurbished line, no need to solder anymore


Dunno, I can't say out of my own experience, but a lot of people seem to have tested the new models here. They are saying the clicks feel the same.


----------



## MkII

Hi guys! Coming from a G9x here.. and althought love the claw grip I'm inclined to get the ZA12

but...

As I can not try it before.. should I get the ZA13 instead??

What are your opinions..

Thanks in advance for any feedback on this! =)


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MkII*
> 
> Hi guys! Coming from a G9x here.. and althought love the claw grip I'm inclined to get the ZA12
> 
> but...
> 
> As I can not try it before.. should I get the ZA13 instead??
> 
> What are your opinions..
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback on this! =)


It's kinda hard to say. G9x is my favorite shape and I have both the ZA12 and 13. I like the shortness of the ZA13 since I like having my index/middle as low as possible i.e. close to the front, but the 12 has better width and more hump/palm contact (something I like). I don't think you'd really go wrong with either, just a matter of what you prioritize in terms of dimensions/shape. I've switched back and forth but ultimately settled on the ZA13 since my fingers being lower is more important to me than the width. The ZA12 is a safer option for most people, I'd say.


----------



## hasukka

Is Zowie known for massive quality contor issues? Mate of mine bought ZA11 and ZA13 a week ago, I have the ZA12 and the clicks on both of his mice are pretty consistent. Both mice have a lot smoother/softer clicks than my ZA12 has. However I bought my ZA12 second hand, used for a couple of months. Anyone else have similar experiences with their ZA mice?


----------



## MkII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It's kinda hard to say. G9x is my favorite shape and I have both the ZA12 and 13. I like the shortness of the ZA13 since I like having my index/middle as low as possible i.e. close to the front, but the 12 has better width and more hump/palm contact (something I like). I don't think you'd really go wrong with either, just a matter of what you prioritize in terms of dimensions/shape. I've switched back and forth but ultimately settled on the ZA13 since my fingers being lower is more important to me than the width. The ZA12 is a safer option for most people, I'd say.


Hey many thanks for clarifying this to me. Yes like you said I'm also super used to the G9x shape.. I tried going palm grip a few month ago with the Mionix Naos 7000...I hated not only the shape but also the rubber coating. So going with the za12 might be a safer option + no rubber coating anymore! hehe

If only logi would launch a G9x shape with a newer optical sensor


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Is Zowie known for massive quality contor issues? Mate of mine bought ZA11 and ZA13 a week ago, I have the ZA12 and the clicks on both of his mice are pretty consistent. Both mice have a lot smoother/softer clicks than my ZA12 has. However I bought my ZA12 second hand, used for a couple of months. Anyone else have similar experiences with their ZA mice?


Switches have a large variance. Filtering out batches for consistency will increase the price a lot, therefore that isn't done by companies.

It's possible that during assembly the top shell was set differently than the other mice you have. Maybe they put pressure on the front or back while screwing the shell or they didn't screw it fully in place.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MkII*
> 
> Hi guys! Coming from a G9x here.. and althought love the claw grip I'm inclined to get the ZA12
> 
> but...
> 
> As I can not try it before.. should I get the ZA13 instead??
> 
> What are your opinions..
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback on this! =)


I went with the ZA13 from a G9X and i'm happy but not 100% satisfied.

The big reason I like the G9X is because it's small and most importantly is height of it is very low. I'm a finger-tip or claw grip type user and I find almost all other gaming mouse to have the middle hump to be too high.


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> Alright, I see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot confirm here. I swapped the huanos out of my FK1 to some Omron D2F-01F and it feels quite nice.
> Now I'm looking for a ZA12, cause the FK1 is a little too long for my hand and I like the shape of the 1.1 which Zowie finally has in the form of the ZA series. So regarding the new refurbished line, no need to solder anymore


Just got an "old" ZA13 (black/white) with Huanos. I'm quite satisfied with it. The size is just right and these Huanos do really feel almost like Omron switches. Actually they are as light as Omrons ...







Scrollwheel: Nothing to complain about.


----------



## maikkelii

So I was wondering should I try ZA13 or 12 when my hand is ~17cm and at the moment I'm using older FK and I'm pretty satisfied with the shape of it. I'm almost full palming it.
I just want to try if it happened to feel even better AND if it doesn't I'd like to know if I can change the new internals of ZA13/12 into my old FK shell?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maikkelii*
> 
> So I was wondering should I try ZA13 or 12 when my hand is ~17cm and at the moment I'm using older FK and I'm pretty satisfied with the shape of it. I'm almost full palming it.
> I just want to try if it happened to feel even better AND if it doesn't I'd like to know if I can change the new internals of ZA13/12 into my old FK shell?


----------



## Avant Garde

Which of these is the closest to IMO 1.1 shape? ZA11 I presume?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avant Garde*
> 
> Which of these is the closest to IMO 1.1 shape? ZA11 I presume?


They all have the same shape, it just the size that is different. Za11 is huge


----------



## Avant Garde

Well, I just saw the dimensions of ZA11, it appears to be almost the exact same size as IMO 1.1


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avant Garde*
> 
> Which of these is the closest to IMO 1.1 shape? ZA11 I presume?


It seems the ZA has a steeper arch than the IMO, that might make the ZA11 a bad decision. The ZA12 is most likely the better choice.

IntelliMouse Optical: Length 126mm, Width 68mm, Height 39mm

Maybe the FinalMouse would be a better choice than the ZA and FK.


----------



## falcon26

My Hands are about 18cm wondering if I should go with the ZA11 or ZA12 for the claw fingertip style grip....


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> My Hands are about 18cm wondering if I should go with the ZA11 or ZA12 for the claw fingertip style grip....


I would go with the ZA12 or maybe even the ZA13. Since you want fingertip hybrid you would fair better with smaller form factor and the ZA11 is very large, considering it's already 128mm including the rear hump.


----------



## falcon26

Yeah I ordered the ZA11 by mistake. I just got it delivered. It is too big. The way my hand sits my finger barely reaches the scroll wheel. I will re order and get the ZA12.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Yeah I ordered the ZA11 by mistake. I just got it delivered. It is too big. The way my hand sits my finger barely reaches the scroll wheel. I will re order and get the ZA12.


Nice I think you'll enjoy it. I have the ZA12 as well and it is a great mouse. Can't wait for Zowie to implement 3360 sensors into their mice


----------



## Avant Garde

Isn't ZA11 exactly the same dimensions as Intellimouse Optical 1.1 ? I'm using IMO 1.1 right now and I have 20cm hands. Glaw/Fingertip grip user here


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avant Garde*
> 
> Isn't ZA11 exactly the same dimensions as Intellimouse Optical 1.1 ? I'm using IMO 1.1 right now and I have 20cm hands. Glaw/Fingertip grip user here


Someone answered your question earlier with the dimensions of the IMO and the dimensions of all ZA series, the ZA12 is the same as the IMO.


----------



## Avant Garde

Yeah, I completely forgot....


----------



## falcon26

Wow I measured my hand size wrong :-( I'm actually about 19.5 cm hand size.


----------



## falcon26

OK got the ZA12, much better  perfect size....


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> OK got the ZA12, much better  perfect size....


Congrats. Glad it worked out for you.


----------



## hotwheels1997

How would the ZA13 fair for me , I have a 17,5cm hand ? Currently with EC2-A , size is good ,but i changed to Hybrid claw (fingers clawef, but use back of palm for support) and the ZA series look exactly made for that. A picture of both side by side would be insanely helpful. A G303 throw in the pictures would be awesome ?


----------



## maikkelii

So I got zowie za13 and older fk and I like the shape of FK more but it has older sensor. I remember that I read that it was possible to just change the sensor from other zowie to other.
So would it be possible for me to swap the za13 internals/sensor to my old fk? And it would actually work like the sensor is supposed to.


----------



## ozzy1925

my hands are length 17.5cm, width:8.5cm and never heard about za 13 unill someone suggested on the mouse suggestion thread and as i check the za 13 fits to my hand which is small and lightweight but i better ask my question here:
do you think my style is really finger tip? I keep my arm stationary all or most of the time and move the mouse primarily with my fingers alone .I took pictures

Also what xxl mouse pad should i use with it ?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> my hands are length 17.5cm, width:8.5cm and never heard about za 13 unill someone suggested on the mouse suggestion thread and as i check the za 13 fits to my hand which is small and lightweight but i better ask my question here:
> do you think my style is really finger tip? I keep my arm stationary all or most of the time and move the mouse primarily with my fingers alone .I took pictures
> 
> Also what xxl mouse pad should i use with it ?


I would say you have a hybrid grip between claw and fingertip. I personally believe the za13 would not be a good fit for you because of the hump. You might want a g303 or similar smaller mouse with a flatter upper shell. And if you only move the mouse with your fingers I don't believe you really *need* an xxl pad. But if you want one anyway no probs with that!


----------



## falcon26

Well after playing BF4 last night for a few hours I really sucked! I had one of my worst gaming sessions every. I guess I could say I need to get used to the ZA12. Also what do you use to clean the mouse? Mine looks like its 3 years old already from my finger prints being soaked into the mouse. I actually went and tried the ZA11 I still have sitting here and it actually feels better in my hand then the ZA12. My hands aree pretty big almost 20 cm.


----------



## rayngan999

I have a hand of 17.5 cm, should I get the ZA12 or ZA13? plz help me


----------



## zekron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rayngan999*
> 
> I have a hand of 17.5 cm, should I get the ZA12 or ZA13? plz help me


Claw grip = ZA13
Palm grip = ZA12


----------



## Re5in

After a week of using the ZA13 now I must say It's not as satisfiying as it was in the beginning ... The hump in the back is too pronounced for me after all... Being used to a 1.1 the FK2 maybe would be the right one to go for me, as the FK1 is slightly too big for my hand.


----------



## Aventadoor

^
Thats exactly my thoughts aswell.
I got the ZA11.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> After a week of using the ZA13 now I must say It's not as satisfiying as it was in the beginning ... The hump in the back is too pronounced for me after all... Being used to a 1.1 the FK2 maybe would be the right one to go for me, as the FK1 is slightly too big for my hand.


The FK is more like the WMO than the IMO.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The FK is more like the WMO than the IMO.


Can confirm the WMO has flatter sides which are nicer though.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Can confirm the WMO has flatter sides which are nicer though.


Of course.

The general feel, in the palm, is more like the WMO.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Of course.
> 
> The general feel, in the palm, is more like the WMO.


agreed.


----------



## ozzy1925

I read Zowie recalling their new mouses with the new omron switch
http://zowie.benq.com/news/8/zowie-mice-recall-announcement


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The FK is more like the WMO than the IMO.


Right, but the ZA is further away from an IMO than the FK. I had the FK1 for one year now (soldered to D2F-01F) except the slight over-length I was quite satisfied with it, so a FK2 should fit my needs I think, except the stiff huanos, which I don't like.


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> I read Zowie recalling their new mouses with the new omron switch
> http://zowie.benq.com/news/8/zowie-mice-recall-announcement


Too bad ... I might grab a current FK2 and put some Omrons in by myself then.


----------



## shatterboxd3

So after a long time of not buying a mouse, I decided to pull the trigger on a ZA11 (white logo with huanos). Most recently I bought the EC1-A when they launched, but went back to my trusty old yellow FK1 with the fabled unusable-click-latency-of-doom.

This is probably late to the party, and most people who would buy this mouse might have already.

Here's my thoughts as a palm player, with slightly bent index and middle fingers, after a couple weeks with the ZA11.

*Feel:* The reason I switched back from my EC1-A to the FK1 was partly the shape and partly the coating. The ZA11 is different than both.

EC-A: Feels slippery when cold, or with dry hands. When you warm up and sweat, it feels close to the grip you get with dry hands on a glossy painted mouse.

FK1: has a more textured coating that doesn't feel so slippery when cold. At first when your hands warm up, it's got amazing grip, but loses some tackiness when your hands are sweating. In long sessions I find myself having to regularly take my hand off my mouse and blow on it and my hands to get rid of moisture as my fingers will slip around on the mouse.

ZA11: The coating on this mouse is more textured than my FK1. (I'm not sure if thats because my FK1 is old and worn down) But the feeling is also different. It feels like the top shell of the DA Chroma. It's perfectly fine to use cold, and when you warm up, it's a perfect feeling of grip, without being tacky or sticky. When my hand was sweaty after a long time of playing, I didn't need to constantly blow on my hand or rub it on my clothes to dry it off. The grip just stayed. This one has the best coating of the mice that I've tried.

*Shape:* I loved the FK1 because of the front half of the mouse. I don't know what it was about it, but the tips of my fingers always just felt like they were in control when I was using it; this mobility was great for my rifling accuracy. My issue with the FK1 was that there wasn't support for my palm for that extra feeling of stability that I needed while awping; I'd never pick up or use an awp when I had a choice. While using the EC1-A, I had the stability in my palm and it helped me be confident in my awp again, but I didn't have the mobility do be able to rifle worth a damn.

Then came the ZA11. It's got the front of the FK1, which I love. And it's got the hump in the back for palm support, which I love. Right away when I hooked it up, before even playing CS I could tell I was going to like it. It just fit so well with my hand. I've been happy with the shape, and I feel that I'm putting the cross-hair where I want it.

*Sensor:* I mean, look at my past mice. Other than the Rival and DA Chroma, they've all been the same 3310 in a Zowie. I play with 1.1 @ 800 dpi with m_rawinput 0 and all the accel commads at 0 as well. I use the Mark C mouse fix for Win 10. I've done test after test with rawinput 0/1 to see if there's any acceleration anywhere and the cross hair always returns back to where it started. Sensor is great for me, I don't feel any smoothing that people talk about, but I've also not used a 3366 mouse to have anything to compare it to.


----------



## Twiffle

I've been thinking of giving Zowie ZA another try. I'm just wondering if ZA11 would be too big for me? I had ZA12 and ZA13 . ZA 13 would cramp my hand after 10 minutes of usage. And I can't remember why I sent back my ZA12.

My hand measurements would be 17,5cm length and 7,8cm width (9cm width if my thumb is included)

Here's couple pictures of how I hold a mouse


http://imgur.com/kQ7uk

 (in the pictures holding my zowie FK2) I hold all mice regardless of their shape the same way.


----------



## Cajun808

My hand is 18.5 cm in length the ZA12 I have fits good. My mouse grip is very similar to yours.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I've been thinking of giving Zowie ZA another try. I'm just wondering if ZA11 would be too big for me? I had ZA12 and ZA13 . ZA 13 would cramp my hand after 10 minutes of usage. And I can't remember why I sent back my ZA12.
> 
> My hand measurements would be 17,5cm length and 7,8cm width (9cm width if my thumb is included)
> 
> Here's couple pictures of how I hold a mouse
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/kQ7uk
> 
> (in the pictures holding my zowie FK2) I hold all mice regardless of their shape the same way.


i almost have same hand size like you by looking at the pictureswe have also have the same grip and i want to buy fk2 can you tell me why do you want to switch to za 12 or za 11 over fk2?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i almost have same hand size like you by looking at the pictureswe have also have the same grip and i want to buy fk2 can you tell me why do you want to switch to za 12 or za 11 over fk2?


I suppose I just like trying different mice. Nothing wrong with this white/black version of FK2 though. It works really well and don't get any cramps. I just think if I went for ZA11 if it isn't too big, that it'd make me switch to palm grip. The grip I have in the pictures and which I have used on all mice I've previously owned is probably somewhere between claw/finger grip.

Basically just want to see if there's some better choices for myself. I know I mentioned 2 reasons there, but to be totally honest.. I'm not even sure myself why . If that makes any sense.

EDIT: Also my hand kind feels stiff if that's the right word to use... after 2-3 hours of usage. I have a stress ball that kinda relieves my hand stiffness/tension









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cajun808*
> 
> My hand is 18.5 cm in length the ZA12 I have fits good. My mouse grip is very similar to yours.


Oh. Does the hump touch your palm at all or support it? I even went through some youtube vids to see if there's anyone with similar sized hands using same sort of grip with ZA12 or 11, but couldn't find any.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I suppose I just like trying different mice. Nothing wrong with this white/black version of FK2 though. It works really well and don't get any cramps. I just think if I went for ZA11 if it isn't too big, that it'd make me switch to palm grip. The grip I have in the pictures and which I have used on all mice I've previously owned is probably somewhere between claw/finger grip.
> 
> Basically just want to see if there's some better choices for myself. I know I mentioned 2 reasons there, but to be totally honest.. I'm not even sure myself why . If that makes any sense.
> 
> EDIT: Also my hand kind feels stiff if that's the right word to use... after 2-3 hours of usage. I have a stress ball that kinda relieves my hand stiffness/tension
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. Does the hump touch your palm at all or support it? I even went through some youtube vids to see if there's anyone with similar sized hands using same sort of grip with ZA12 or 11, but couldn't find any.


thanks i want to order fk2 but cant decide if i wait for the new omron ones or stick with white ones


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I suppose I just like trying different mice. Nothing wrong with this white/black version of FK2 though. It works really well and don't get any cramps. I just think if I went for ZA11 if it isn't too big, that it'd make me switch to palm grip. The grip I have in the pictures and which I have used on all mice I've previously owned is probably somewhere between claw/finger grip.
> 
> Basically just want to see if there's some better choices for myself. I know I mentioned 2 reasons there, but to be totally honest.. I'm not even sure myself why . If that makes any sense.
> 
> EDIT: Also my hand kind feels stiff if that's the right word to use... after 2-3 hours of usage. I have a stress ball that kinda relieves my hand stiffness/tension
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. Does the hump touch your palm at all or support it? I even went through some youtube vids to see if there's anyone with similar sized hands using same sort of grip with ZA12 or 11, but couldn't find any.


I'll take a couple pics of my hands on the za11. For reference, 20cm. If you have a way to try out both the 11 and 12 and send back the one you don't like, I would do that. But with your hands being smaller the za12 might be better fit. Especially if you claw/fingertip.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> thanks i want to order fk2 but cant decide if i wait for the new omron ones or stick with white ones


Well the "stiff" clicks don't really bother me, and I heard that zowie recalled their new benq mice.. so not sure what they gonna do about them. Heard some people say that the omron switches didn't make any difference, it is the shell why the clicks feel so stiff. Then again I haven't had the new zowie benq models.. so these rumors could be false. I got used to the clicks pretty fast and kind of like the clickity click sound. Totally up to you. If you don't like the stiff clicks, then perhaps wait for the new one. Good thing about the stiff clicks is that you won't accidentally press them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> I'll take a couple pics of my hands on the za11. For reference, 20cm. If you have a way to try out both the 11 and 12 and send back the one you don't like, I would do that. But with your hands being smaller the za12 might be better fit. Especially if you claw/fingertip.


Ahh that'd be great! And yeah most likely 12 would be ideal. I can order both that's not a problem, but would prefer to just buy one of them. Will wait for the reference picture and make my decision there.


----------



## Cajun808

@ Twiffle the ZA12 does support my palm.


----------



## popups




----------



## shatterboxd3

Here's those pics of the mouse.


http://imgur.com/YUHf8


Just over 20cm hands, and it's super comfortable. Fills my palm nicely, and still reaches the bottom of my hand.

Will Try to record some real deathmatch footage, in an FFA, if I can get some time tomorrow. The dude that popups posted shouldn't be recording any of his ingame footage...


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Here's those pics of the mouse.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/YUHf8
> 
> 
> Just over 20cm hands, and it's super comfortable. Fills my palm nicely, and still reaches the bottom of my hand.
> 
> Will Try to record some real deathmatch footage, in an FFA, if I can get some time tomorrow. The dude that popups posted shouldn't be recording any of his ingame footage...


I suppose it depends how you hold the mouse. That picture gave a pretty good idea and it should suit me fine, I think.

I've been testing my EC2-A and FK2 and I'm more accurate with FK2. That most likely is cause of the size, and also it being ambidextrous so I can pretty much choose how I hold it and feels more
comfortable. Only complaint from me about FK2 is that after a while of using it I start to feel pain on upper side of my palm/hand. That is why I think that ZA12 should feel very comfortable cause of that hump to support my palm. If the hump isn't enough, I'll just return it and get ZA11 perhaps.

As for the video above... not sure was it directed at someone on this thread or just as an random interview. I even watched the deathmatch video couple times, but wasn't really sure what the person in the video was trying to prove apart from telling that the sensor won't tilt on you and show some sort of grip style to use with it.

I wish when people do interviews of gaming mice that they'd show also how it looks when they grip the mice. Takasta used to do that in his videos which was pretty nice.


----------



## Pete2

Is anyone else's middle mouse button difficult to press at certain points in the mouse wheel's revolution?

I just bought a Zowie ZA11 from Amazon and the middle mouse is difficult to press for about a third of the mouse wheel's revolution. One other review on this site mentioned the same issue, and I'm wondering if the problem is widespread.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Haven't noticed it, nope. and it's my mic button so it gets pressed alot.

Though I've noticed that I'm getting alot of the old mousewheel problems with the zowies where they would be in between scroll registers, and it randomly goes to the notch. Made me jump like an idiot in a few situations now. About to see if I can change out the wheel mechanism for my FK1's that's never had an issue.


----------



## dasp0

Hello, I play CS:GO alot and am currently dippin on a semi-pro level and trying to get better. Now I have thought about buying a new mouse since this one cramps me so much.
Basically I have quite small hands ( 17.1cm lenght ) and 8cm wide ( without thumb ).
I kinda like to play with palm grip, on some mouses I use a palm with a slightly claw dip into it.

Several mouses that i've used:

FK2 ( it was kinda nice but I want it to be wider, and I feel like fk1 would be too long ) I also tried zowie ec2-a but I didn't like the shape at all.

Logitech g303: I just can't stand all the bugs with the sensor and stuff that happens.. also after long gaming sessions I get cramp in my thumb.

SS sensei: It feels really good it's like the perfect maximum size for my hand, but the sensor is just unplayable for me. I can't control it at all.

I've been thinking now If maybe Zowie ZA could be the mouse kind that I am looking for. Any ideas?


----------



## suneatshours86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dasp0*
> 
> Hello, I play CS:GO alot and am currently dippin on a semi-pro level and trying to get better. Now I have thought about buying a new mouse since this one cramps me so much.
> Basically I have quite small hands ( 17.1cm lenght ) and 8cm wide ( without thumb ).
> I kinda like to play with palm grip, on some mouses I use a palm with a slightly claw dip into it.
> 
> Several mouses that i've used:
> 
> FK2 ( it was kinda nice but I want it to be wider, and I feel like fk1 would be too long ) I also tried zowie ec2-a but I didn't like the shape at all.
> 
> Logitech g303: I just can't stand all the bugs with the sensor and stuff that happens.. also after long gaming sessions I get cramp in my thumb.
> 
> SS sensei: It feels really good it's like the perfect maximum size for my hand, but the sensor is just unplayable for me. I can't control it at all.
> 
> I've been thinking now If maybe Zowie ZA could be the mouse kind that I am looking for. Any ideas?


same here. Save your money until a good updated xai/sensei
i owned a xai, fk 13, fk1, ec2, za13 and currently using a fk2


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dasp0*
> 
> Hello, I play CS:GO alot and am currently dippin on a semi-pro level and trying to get better. Now I have thought about buying a new mouse since this one cramps me so much.
> Basically I have quite small hands ( 17.1cm lenght ) and 8cm wide ( without thumb ).
> I kinda like to play with palm grip, on some mouses I use a palm with a slightly claw dip into it.
> 
> Several mouses that i've used:
> 
> FK2 ( it was kinda nice but I want it to be wider, and I feel like fk1 would be too long ) I also tried zowie ec2-a but I didn't like the shape at all.
> 
> Logitech g303: I just can't stand all the bugs with the sensor and stuff that happens.. also after long gaming sessions I get cramp in my thumb.
> 
> SS sensei: It feels really good it's like the perfect maximum size for my hand, but the sensor is just unplayable for me. I can't control it at all.
> 
> I've been thinking now If maybe Zowie ZA could be the mouse kind that I am looking for. Any ideas?


steelseries 100 & mionix castor could be decent for you.


----------



## dasp0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suneatshours86*
> 
> same here. Save your money until a good updated xai/sensei
> i owned a xai, fk 13, fk1, ec2, za13 and currently using a fk2


What did you think was wrong with the za13? and is your hand size close to mine?


----------



## suneatshours86

my hand is: 18.5 x 8 cm
ZA13 for me is not balanced, too short and too stocky, FK2 is is definitely better if you need a small balanced mouse to fingertip/hybridgrip.
Not even try ZA12 because ZA13 is already too tall and palmgrip is the only way to use ZA series IMHO... BUT, there are alot of better mice for palmgrip.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dasp0*
> 
> Hello, I play CS:GO alot and am currently dippin on a semi-pro level and trying to get better. Now I have thought about buying a new mouse since this one cramps me so much.
> Basically I have quite small hands ( 17.1cm lenght ) and 8cm wide ( without thumb ).
> I kinda like to play with palm grip, on some mouses I use a palm with a slightly claw dip into it.
> 
> Several mouses that i've used:
> 
> FK2 ( it was kinda nice but I want it to be wider, and I feel like fk1 would be too long ) I also tried zowie ec2-a but I didn't like the shape at all.
> 
> Logitech g303: I just can't stand all the bugs with the sensor and stuff that happens.. also after long gaming sessions I get cramp in my thumb.
> 
> SS sensei: It feels really good it's like the perfect maximum size for my hand, but the sensor is just unplayable for me. I can't control it at all.
> 
> I've been thinking now If maybe Zowie ZA could be the mouse kind that I am looking for. Any ideas?


ZA are just as thin, just with more hump in the back.


----------



## daunow

Guessing this mouses have the same shape as the Sensei/Kana/Kinzu from steelseries


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Guessing this mouses have the same shape as the Sensei/Kana/Kinzu from steelseries


In the general sense, but the hump is more pronounced and further back on the ZA mice. I'd say the Steelseries mice fit right between the ZA and FK series (FKs with a flatter/less pronounced hump than the Steelseries mice). I think the Steelseries mice are also a touch wider at the point of grip than Zowie mice.


----------



## TheReFi

Hey huys,

Just bought a Zowie ZA, the mouse is perfect, I have only one thing to mention is that when I shake the mouse I can hear that plastic lens is moving a little bit inside. Can you check that this is normal or that plastic lens should be solid?


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheReFi*
> 
> Hey huys,
> 
> Just bought a Zowie ZA, the mouse is perfect, I have only one thing to mention is that when I shake the mouse I can hear that plastic lens is moving a little bit inside. Can you check that this is normal or that plastic lens should be solid?


Ofcourse it should be solid cause that is the Sensor lens, not sure if you are trolling or being serious. ^^

I have the exact same Mouse and I hear nothing than a completely solid build if I shake it, so you better send it back and wait for a new one.

The ZA 11 is great, headshots flying all day Long so I wish ya da best with it.


----------



## gene-z

Anyone switch for FK1/FK2 and 11 or 12? How is it compared to it if so.


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Anyone switch for FK1/FK2 and 11 or 12? How is it compared to it if so.


I switched from an FK'14 (3090 equipped FK2) to a ZA13. At first, the ZA13 felt too tall and much bigger than the FK despite being the smallest in the ZA lineup. It took a while for me to get my aim back after switching. The FK is so low that it allowed me to hold it in a manner that gave me a feeling of very direct control when gaming.

Now though, I prefer the ZA over the FK. It feels comfortable for longer gaming sessions and I forget that I'm holding a mouse, it's so good that I forget the shape entirely.

The fact that the ZA13 is lighter doesn't hurt either.

I'll use the ZA13 until Zowie releases a 3360 equipped one, then I'll get that.


----------



## Re5in

Coming from a FK1, after rejecting the ZA13 due to the weird bold hump in the back I'm now on a FK2 '2015 (black and white). The FK2's switches are suprisingly not as stiff as the huanos from my 2014 FK1 which I finally replaced wirth omrons due to their stiffness. The 2015 FK2 is completely fine for me now.


----------



## falcon26

What is the default polling rate on the ZA series?


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> What is the default polling rate on the ZA series?


Default was 1000hz on my ZA13, as with the FK1 / FK2 ... I do use 500hz though


----------



## falcon26

OK I just got my new ZA12. I'm confused here. The ZA12 I have now is totally different then the one I had last month. The coating on this mouse I got today it like a soft rubber matte black. Also the mouse clicks are a lot softer and quieter than the ZA12 I had last month. That mouse was a satin black with loud clicks and more force used. This ZA12 I got today is a softer click and again rubber matte black. Did Zowie change this mouse or something? I also have a ZA13 here and it is totally different than the ZA12 I got today. Its also a satin black with loud clicks.


----------



## a_ak57

Does the older one have white logos and the new one red? If so sounds like you got one of the Ben Q versions with Omrons (should also have a 16 step wheel instead of 24).


----------



## falcon26

Nope it has the white zowie logo. Even the scroll wheel feels different. The ZA12 I have here now is nothing like the ZA12 I had a month ago, it looks and feels totally different.


----------



## Re5in

I can confirm that.
The black/white FK2 i got now has the rubber-kind-of-feel coating that falcon describes. The ZA13 I got a few weeks before wasn't coated like this. It had the same more-harder-feel-coating I knew from my 2014 FK1.

But I do like the more-fine-structured coating of the FK2 I got now.
It's actually not a rubber-ish material, just the fine structure gives you kind of a softer feel.


----------



## falcon26

What about the switches do they feel different than your older one.the one I have now feels totally different than the older one I had a month ago. I wonder if these have the ormon switches


----------



## Re5in

the 2015 FK2's switches are lighter than the 2014 FK1's. But these are definitely no omrons, still huanos. Omrons were only used with the new red/black BenQ line-up which has meanwhile being recalled due to ghost-double-click issues.

And I've read somewhere before that the FK2 switches shall be lighter to press in comparison to the FK1's switches.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> the 2015 FK2's switches are lighter than the 2014 FK1's. But these are definitely no omrons, still huanos. Omrons were only used with the new red/black BenQ line-up which has meanwhile being recalled due to ghost-double-click issues.
> 
> And I've read somewhere before that the FK2 switches shall be lighter to press in comparison to the FK1's switches.


Zowie has restocked online stores with mice which are not supposed to have those double click issues anymore. I bought mine on Rexflo.net and got it in 2 days







. I read somewhere someone type that after the recall zowie was going to use huanos but I'm not sure if that person was guessing or actually knew


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> Zowie has restocked online stores with mice which are not supposed to have those double click issues anymore. I bought mine on Rexflo.net and got it in 2 days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I read somewhere someone type that after the recall zowie was going to use huanos but I'm not sure if that person was guessing or actually knew


They will be going to use huanos again.

See: http://zowie.benq.com/news/8/zowie-mice-recall-announcement
"Modifications to the FK1, FK2, ZA11, ZA12, ZA13, EC1-A, EC2-A models are underway with the adoption of the *Huano* switches and delivery of these modified models is expected to resume by end of March."

Stores have been restocked with BenQ-Omron-mice? I think this is a mistake... -> "modified models is expected to resume by end of March."
There won't be any Omron-Zowie mice anymore.

I rather think you can still buy these mice from rexflo. If you are experiencing a problem with it, you will be granted to swap or return it. If not, you are fine. Not everybody had issues with the Omron line-up.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TedBoomBang*
> 
> They will be going to use huanos again.
> 
> See: http://zowie.benq.com/news/8/zowie-mice-recall-announcement
> "Modifications to the FK1, FK2, ZA11, ZA12, ZA13, EC1-A, EC2-A models are underway with the adoption of the *Huano* switches and delivery of these modified models is expected to resume by end of March."
> 
> Stores have been restocked with BenQ-Omron-mice? I think this is a mistake... -> "modified models is expected to resume by end of March."
> There won't be any Omron-Zowie mice anymore.
> 
> I rather think you can still buy these mice from rexflo. If you are experiencing a problem with it, you will be granted to swap or return it. If not, you are fine. Not everybody had issues with the Omron line-up.


Zowie's facebook page says that the mice are back on Rexflo with the Huanos, he's not wrong.


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Zowie's facebook page says that the mice are back on Rexflo with the Huanos, he's not wrong.


Alright, thanks 4 the info








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> Zowie has restocked online stores with mice which are not supposed to have those double click issues anymore.


Seemingly tunelover isn't aware of his mouse will be having huanos then and obviously he wasn't aware of this facebook post either.


----------



## falcon26

Well I know they did something to the ZA series. THe switches on my recent ZA12 are totally different then pervious ZA12 ones. And its not the BENQ version either. I wonder what they did.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Well I know they did something to the ZA series. THe switches on my recent ZA12 are totally different then pervious ZA12 ones. And its not the BENQ version either. I wonder what they did.


How? Softer?


----------



## falcon26

They are softer, a lot softer and much more quiet....


----------



## a_ak57

Well, it's possible they stealthily modified the shell to lighten the clicks since the Omron thing was a failure. Maybe open up the older and newer models and see if the top of the shell is thinner on the new one where the buttons actually bend (that'd be the easiest way to soften the clicks I think).


----------



## verysadbob

I just got my Zowie ZA 12 from the mail, it feels great and all but the scroll wheel - is it supposed to feel like it's completely lose? It makes two different kind of noises (one like it hit the socket and the other is harder to describe ..like a high pitched click?) every time I move it to the opposite direction of movement. When I wiggle the wheel it feels as if there is no resistance whatsoever and the whole scroll wheel just feels off.
I read that it's pretty easy to resocket the wheel but opening up the mouse and breaking the warranty doesn't sound like what you should have to do with a brand new mouse. Is it just RMA time or is this supposed to be normal behaviour in even a remotely imaginable way?

Note: if I hold the wheel in place, none of the noises are present


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verysadbob*
> 
> I just got my Zowie ZA 12 from the mail, it feels great and all but the scroll wheel - is it supposed to feel like it's completely lose? It makes two different kind of noises (one like it hit the socket and the other is harder to describe ..like a high pitched click?) every time I move it to the opposite direction of movement. When I wiggle the wheel it feels as if there is no resistance whatsoever and the whole scroll wheel just feels off.
> I read that it's pretty easy to resocket the wheel but opening up the mouse and breaking the warranty doesn't sound like what you should have to do with a brand new mouse. Is it just RMA time or is this supposed to be normal behaviour in even a remotely imaginable way?
> 
> Note: if I hold the wheel in place, none of the noises are present


You can imagine why it's like that.


----------



## verysadbob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can imagine why it's like that.


Are you implying that this is normal behaviour?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verysadbob*
> 
> Are you implying that this is normal behaviour?


Yes. The wheel is really loud


----------



## LolCakeLazors

Just bought a ZA13 from Amazon (white logo). The left click is much softer than the right click with the left click sounding softer than the right click. Not sure if this is a problem with my mouse clicks or the mouse itself. Coating itself is nice for my hands and I tend to have my hands get sweaty after hours of gameplay. At least dead skin doesn't pile up on my mouse anymore since it doesn't use a weird glossy coating that the MX518 did. Mouse wheel rattles a bit in the shell but it's not a problem in my opinion. I have yet to test actually using the scroll wheel for skipping mouse scrolls.


----------



## verysadbob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Yes. The wheel is really loud


Well dammit, I almost even want to buy this as I hate the RMA process. Guess I'll manage to live with it


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verysadbob*
> 
> Are you implying that this is normal behaviour?


For the 16 notch wheel.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LolCakeLazors*
> 
> Just bought a ZA13 from Amazon (white logo). The left click is much softer than the right click with the left click sounding softer than the right click. Not sure if this is a problem with my mouse clicks or the mouse itself. Coating itself is nice for my hands and I tend to have my hands get sweaty after hours of gameplay. At least dead skin doesn't pile up on my mouse anymore since it doesn't use a weird glossy coating that the MX518 did. Mouse wheel rattles a bit in the shell but it's not a problem in my opinion. I have yet to test actually using the scroll wheel for skipping mouse scrolls.


The different clicks are oddly common with zowies.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> The different clicks are oddly common with zowies.


It's a common thing with a lot of mice.

The sound difference could be down to the shell opening for the scroll wheel.


----------



## verysadbob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> For the 16 notch wheel.


It is the benq version, with the red logo


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verysadbob*
> 
> It is the benq version, with the red logo


That variant has the 16 notch wheel. The white wheel, white logo, variant has the 24 notch wheel. The 24 notch wheel is the wheel with issues.


----------



## verysadbob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verysadbob*
> 
> It makes two different kind of noises (one like it hit the socket and the other is harder to describe ..like a high pitched click?) every time I move *it* to the opposite direction of movement. When I wiggle the wheel it feels as if there is no resistance whatsoever and the whole scroll wheel just feels off.


Clarification: it, as in the mouse itself - is it normal for the wheel to rattle when moving the mouse, even in the slightest (as long as it's the opposite direction)?


----------



## daviddave1

Just bought the new BENQ ZA11 at http://www.esportstore.com/mice/zowie-by-benq/za11-mouse-1

store is in sweden. you can pay with paypal. Total cost: 81.08 €

I checked with them on facebook in a PM: "It's the new Zowie by BenQ ZA11 with the Huano switches and the new red logo. This is the first batch after the recall."

anyone knows a site where the new GSR is? with paypal option? in Europe.


----------



## Luxer

stopped using my ZA13 for the Rival 100. ZA series has way too much height where the palm rests


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviddave1*
> 
> Just bought the new BENQ ZA11 at http://www.esportstore.com/mice/zowie-by-benq/za11-mouse-1
> 
> store is in sweden. you can pay with paypal. Total cost: 81.08 €
> 
> I checked with them on facebook in a PM: "It's the new Zowie by BenQ ZA11 with the Huano switches and the new red logo. This is the first batch after the recall."
> 
> anyone knows a site where the new GSR is? with paypal option? in Europe.


You can try BenQ directly -- I bought the new P-SR from their US site via PayPal.


----------



## MLJS54

Can anyone comment on how the ZA11 feels size wise relative to the Microsoft IO 1.1?


----------



## daviddave1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> You can try BenQ directly -- I bought the new P-SR from their US site via PayPal.


Ben Q us only delivers in US. tnx though.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can anyone comment on how the ZA11 feels size wise relative to the Microsoft IO 1.1?


Not as wide but quite similiar.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviddave1*
> 
> Just bought the new BENQ ZA11 at http://www.esportstore.com/mice/zowie-by-benq/za11-mouse-1
> 
> store is in sweden. you can pay with paypal. Total cost: 81.08 €
> 
> I checked with them on facebook in a PM: "It's the new Zowie by BenQ ZA11 with the Huano switches and the new red logo. This is the first batch after the recall."
> 
> anyone knows a site where the new GSR is? with paypal option? in Europe.


Can you give details when you got the mouse if its the new batch?


----------



## daviddave1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> Can you give details when you got the mouse if its the new batch?


Before i placed the order i mailed them and facebooked them. there answer was: "It's the new Zowie by BenQ ZA11 with the Huano switches and the new red logo. This is the first batch after the recall."

It cant get any more clear then that in my opinion. But when i get the mouse i will let u guys know if something wrong.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviddave1*
> 
> before i placed the order i mailed them and facebooked them. there answer was: "It's the new Zowie by BenQ ZA11 with the Huano switches and the new red logo. This is the first batch after the recall." cant get any more clear then that in my opinion. but when i get the mouse i will let u guys know if something wrong


great thanks waiting for your feedback


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Can anyone comment on how the ZA11 feels size wise relative to the Microsoft IO 1.1?


It feels great compared to a IO 1.1.

If you give yourself a lil bit of time practicing with this mouse you can build up huge skill with it.

I tried a few other mice here and there but the ZA11 is my personal flagship.

To be more concrete, I wouldn't never ever need another mouse again.

If the Benq Version comes to caseking I will buy two or three just for personal stock.

I play mainly CSGO with it and I am doing really fine.


----------



## daviddave1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> great thanks waiting for your feedback


the mouse arrived yesterday. im very happy with it. i have no idea how to check if it gots huano switches but seems like it!


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviddave1*
> 
> the mouse arrived yesterday. im very happy with it. i have no idea how to check if it gots huano switches but seems like it!


great to hear will order from there soon


----------



## Re5in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> What about the switches do they feel different than your older one.the one I have now feels totally different than the older one I had a month ago. I wonder if these have the ormon switches


Zowie seems to have differences of used materials and build quality among their batches.
I got a FK2 (black / white / huano) after one month of use the coating on the left mouse button cames off due to a dust grain untder the coating. This mouse had a very strong smell of burned plastic on it. Every time I used this for a couple of hours even my hand gets plastic-smelly form it. So after the coating cames off I returned that FK2 and got a new one.
The replacement FK2 (black / white / huano as well) has nearly no smell at all. --> Seemingly a different material is used. The coating feels to be the same though.
But now I got a problem with the left button switch: This one is kind of loose, bumps back quite loud - completely different from the first FK2 I got with the coating issue. So now I'm gonna return this one again. I'm curious with what suprises the next FK2 will come up for me.







This will be the last try for me regarding a Zowie mouse.

Unfortuantely there are no decent alternatives out there.
I think I will have to go back to a 1.1 and play with 125hz then.

My requirements:
- Best optical sensor
- Plain form, no annoying "pseudo-ergonomics", no childish RGB lighting and stuff
- No software, like Zowie does it.
- Free moving buttons (compl. seperated from the shell) , best switches, flawless scroll wheel
- Non-braided cord
- Best teflon glide pads
- Low lift-off distance

Just give me a 1.1 with a decent scroll wheel and 500hz. I will pay a 100$.


----------



## falcon26

That's how I feel. I want a mouse that is really plain with no fancy LED's or driver software. Zowie is perfect.


----------



## SlipperySausage

Got my ZA12 delivered on Monday. Had to order from Denmark because there isnt a supplier here in New Zealand yet.

The mouse is amazing however mine seems to have a sensor issue.

When I lift the mouse from a mouse pad and place it back on the pad it can take seconds before the sensor works again. Sometimes it wont work again until I try lifting it and putting it back down again.

I have tried the mouse on 3 different computers

I have tried adjusting the lift off distance (all 3 settings) which has not worked.

I have tried the following mouse pads:

- Steel Series QCK Heavy
- Razer Goliathus speed
- Steel Series QCK+

All 3 mouse pads exhibit the same problem.

I do not have any issues with my older FK1 on any of these mouse pads.

This video shows the same problem I have:






I've emailed the shop I purchased from and they still haven't replied. http://www.zowiegear.dk

Hope I get a reply from them soon.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlipperySausage*
> 
> Got my ZA12 delivered on Monday. Had to order from Denmark because there isnt a supplier here in New Zealand yet.
> 
> The mouse is amazing however mine seems to have a sensor issue.
> 
> When I lift the mouse from a mouse pad and place it back on the pad it can take seconds before the sensor works again. Sometimes it wont work again until I try lifting it and putting it back down again.
> 
> I have tried the mouse on 3 different computers
> 
> I have tried adjusting the lift off distance (all 3 settings) which has not worked.
> 
> I have tried the following mouse pads:
> 
> - Steel Series QCK Heavy
> - Razer Goliathus speed
> - Steel Series QCK+
> 
> All 3 mouse pads exhibit the same problem.
> 
> I do not have any issues with my older FK1 on any of these mouse pads.
> 
> This video shows the same problem I have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've emailed the shop I purchased from and they still haven't replied. http://www.zowiegear.dk
> 
> Hope I get a reply from them soon.


really sucks having to return something internationally..


----------



## ncck

If you can show them the problem on video they may send you one right away, you'll still probably have to send that one in or maybe not at all. I had to contact zowie RMA a long time ago and they sent me a new mouse before I sent my old one in


----------



## daniel0731ex

Question about RMA, are Zowie quite strict about needing your receipt? I want to send in my dead FK2 but can't find the receipt anywhere. $50 down the drain.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Question about RMA, are Zowie quite strict about needing your receipt? I want to send in my dead FK2 but can't find the receipt anywhere. $50 down the drain.


I remember only giving them the serial number for the mouse.


----------



## SlipperySausage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> really sucks having to return something internationally..


Yeah man, they still haven't got back to me after multiple emails. Might have to RMA it.


----------



## SlipperySausage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> If you can show them the problem on video they may send you one right away, you'll still probably have to send that one in or maybe not at all. I had to contact zowie RMA a long time ago and they sent me a new mouse before I sent my old one in


Yeah the company hasn't responded, after multiple emails. But Zowie/Benq responded on Facebook within minutes. They said to RMA it if the company doesn't get back to me. Sucks because that Zowie Gear website has 14 days return policy and I am well within that time.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SlipperySausage*
> 
> Yeah the company hasn't responded, after multiple emails. But Zowie/Benq responded on Facebook within minutes. They said to RMA it if the company doesn't get back to me. Sucks because that Zowie Gear website has 14 days return policy and I am well within that time.


As far as I know zowie support is literally just their PR guy or that's how it use to be


----------



## m0uz

I literally had no idea, even after owning a ZA13, that Zowie mice had LOD modes. Are they still a thing on the newer iterations?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I literally had no idea, even after owning a ZA13, that Zowie mice had LOD modes. Are they still a thing on the newer iterations?


Yes its still a thing. Check Ino's fk1 review for details.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Yes its still a thing. Check Ino's fk1 review for details.


Yeah, it works although the instructions are nowhere to be found in the manual.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> As far as I know zowie support is literally just their PR guy or that's how it use to be


i tweeted them asking if they had any rmas with the after-recall mice because of mouse wheel skipping (the jump bug) and the guy told me to contact support, so i guess it's not the same guy? Surely he would be the one in charge of twitter


----------



## maibuN

The scroll wheel of my ZA11 is really hard to press. Did you experience the same with your ZA? I got the "old" non Benq Version, maybe this is different in the new model?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> The scroll wheel of my ZA11 is really hard to press. Did you experience the same with your ZA? I got the "old" non Benq Version, maybe this is different in the new model?


I have the ZA13 right now, and the scroll wheel feels terrible... i need to fight with it to scroll down, i can't just gently rub it downwards like with other mice... my fingers just glides out of it.. why would they put pure rubber as scroll instead of something like plastic piece, like the ones on the Rival's..

I also have the old non benq.


----------



## hasukka

I've had 3 ZA mice now and each one of them has rattled. I have a benq ZA12 which rattles a lot, a ZA11 white logo that rattles a bit less and had a ZA12 white logo that rattled.

Is this a common issue with the ZA mice, should I even bother RMA:ing the ZA12 & ZA11?


----------



## sandywind

I have a question on the type of palm grip that ZA11/12 favors.

The mice I find comfortable for a palm grip all have their apex in the middle/front part of them: DA is a prominent example; it is comfortable for me because the apex is located just in front of the base of the middle and index fingers. There are also other examples, AM-FG, Recon, Kone XTD; or at least this is the only comfortable way to palm them for me. Is this also the recommended way to palm a ZA11/12? Is not the apex of the mouse too far back to palm it that way?


----------



## altf4

How does the click stiffness compares to ec2-a, which one is softer?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> How does the click stiffness compares to ec2-a, which one is softer?


It depends on your grip style but its ec>za>fk from lightest to hardest actuation force.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> It depends on your grip style but its ec>za>fk from lightest to hardest actuation force.


How about the scroll wheel? same in all models no improvements?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> How about the scroll wheel? same in all models no improvements?


The new benq models have 16 step wheel instead of 24 step.. It shoud prevent the missing scrolls or random jumping if you had problem with that.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> The new benq models have 16 step wheel instead of 24 step.. It shoud prevent the missing scrolls or random jumping if you had problem with that.


Ty, i think i will order ec2-a, because i'm using claw grip and the za models is more towards palm grip users, plus i like more softer clicks i've used fk a year ago i didin't liked how stiff the clicks was, we will see how much zowie improved since then.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

No problem.. I hope you'll enjoy it!


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> I have a question on the type of palm grip that ZA11/12 favors.
> 
> The mice I find comfortable for a palm grip all have their apex in the middle/front part of them: DA is a prominent example; it is comfortable for me because the apex is located just in front of the base of the middle and index fingers. There are also other examples, AM-FG, Recon, Kone XTD; or at least this is the only comfortable way to palm them for me. Is this also the recommended way to palm a ZA11/12? Is not the apex of the mouse too far back to palm it that way?


Yes, based on what you describe, I think that you will find the apex of the ZA to be too far back into the palm.


----------



## Timecard

I don't know what Zowie is doing to their mice but they are doing it right. I just bought my first BENQ Zowie ZA13, previously I had a sensei, rival 300 and rival 100 and none have come close to the consistency and performance of the Zowie mouse. The mouse clicks feel amazing for spraying and tapping in CS, and it glides perfectly well on a QCK+. I feel like I have pixel perfect accuracy and the only time I make a mistake its because of my own inconsistencies, the way a mouse should be...

I really enjoyed the xai/sensei shape and this comes very close however the width is slightly smaller and the hump has a different shape but is technically the same height, was very easy to adapt to after a hour or so.

10/10


----------



## frewp

Kind of want to try the ZA13.
If there's one complaint about my EC2-A, it's the coating.

I live in California, and if it gets hot and humid, the EC2-A gets kind of sticky. I only sweat during the heat, during the winter the EC2-A feels so great.

I own an FK1 and the coating is a lot rougher, it's feels almost resistant to sweat and feels amazing during the summer.

I like my size of the EC2-A, would the ZA13 be best? FK1 is way too long imo
I was trying to decide the ZA13 or ZA12 if I decided to try this mouse, and I'm stumped.
I know I'd love the ZA13 length as I do with EC2-A, and that 80g weight, just not 100% sure bout the width.
Never minded the 60mm width of the FK1/EC2 and this mouse is 56mm. Huge difference?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> Kind of want to try the ZA13.
> If there's one complaint about my EC2-A, it's the coating.
> 
> I live in California, and if it gets hot and humid, the EC2-A gets kind of sticky. I only sweat during the heat, during the winter the EC2-A feels so great.
> 
> I own an FK1 and the coating is a lot rougher, it's feels almost resistant to sweat and feels amazing during the summer.
> 
> I like my size of the EC2-A, would the ZA13 be best? FK1 is way too long imo
> I was trying to decide the ZA13 or ZA12 if I decided to try this mouse, and I'm stumped.
> I know I'd love the ZA13 length as I do with EC2-A, and that 80g weight, just not 100% sure bout the width.
> Never minded the 60mm width of the FK1/EC2 and this mouse is 56mm. Huge difference?


I own both the EC2-A and the ZA13, the ZA13 is definitely smaller than the EC2-A, and it's something that you're going to notice, so if you don't prefer small mice, you should get the ZA12 instead. The ZA13 is kinda the size of the G303/G100s/FK2

And I also hated the FK2 because it felt like a long stick with no width, so the bottom of the mouse would always uncomfortably hit my palm because I can't rest it properly. I don't have this problem with the ZA. As for the coating... I'm not sure, I own the white logo ones, I don't know if the new ones are different, but I can't imagine the ZA and FK being different in terms of coating.


----------



## frewp

eh, realized I'm way too happy with the EC2-A currently.
hopefully I move rooms this summer into my bedroom with a nice AC so I never get that weird humid sticky grip









If EC2-A had the coating of the FK1 I'd be allll over it.
EC2-A size and shape is just perfect for my hand though...

Thanks for the help


----------



## kevinzone

whats the click latency when compared to the logitech mice?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinzone*
> 
> whats the click latency when compared to the logitech mice?


Around 5ms I believe.


----------



## mixolyd

Hey guys, my G400 seems to be dying (random USB disconnects). I've been using MX500/G400 mice for years and need a replacement. I tried EC2 before and liked it but went back to G400. EC1 felt a little big, and so did Deathadder. Now the G400 costs $150 for some reason so thinking of going for a Zowie. EC2 is out of stock, but ZA series I hear is more similar to G400? I'm just not sure which one to get ZA11 or ZA12. My hands are 19cm and I use hybrid fingertip/claw grip. Maybe the ZA isn't even right for me because of side buttons which don't seem good for a claw type grip.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mixolyd*
> 
> Hey guys, my G400 seems to be dying (random USB disconnects). I've been using MX500/G400 mice for years and need a replacement. I tried EC2 before and liked it but went back to G400. EC1 felt a little big, and so did Deathadder. Now the G400 costs $150 for some reason so thinking of going for a Zowie. EC2 is out of stock, but ZA series I hear is more similar to G400? I'm just not sure which one to get ZA11 or ZA12. My hands are 19cm and I use hybrid fingertip/claw grip. Maybe the ZA isn't even right for me because of side buttons which don't seem good for a claw type grip.


G900


----------



## frunction

I bought a ZA11, there doesn't seem to be quite enough room on the sides for my fingers (drag on the pad).


----------



## hungragezone

I got a ZA11 today
But im too confuse to choose, is it fit with my hand or not








I can't change it to ZA12 or something else, i dont know that i should keep it or not...


----------



## doors1991

In the first picture looks a bit too big for you.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doors1991*
> 
> In the first picture looks a bit too big for you.


Yeah, your front finger tips should be over the front edge of the buttons, if you want to hold it within your palm. Purchased the ZA11 also and it's comfortable for myself due to my fingertips extending past the front end, hence I can even finger tip control it with ease.

Always buy a mouse that can sit comfortably within your palm and have your fingers extend forward past the front edge of the mouse. Then it'll be quite useful to hold for hours without any cramps or ligament fatigue.


----------



## hungragezone

I'm some kind of hybrid type user, i am thinking change ZA11 to ZA12, but in my country, i just can't exchange it, I must sell it then buy ZA12 again, damn


----------



## tehelelol

Hey there,
I just bought the ZA11 but I am not sure if the ZA12 would fit me better.
I used the EC1-A before.

Here you can see my grip / mouse size:



http://imgur.com/M1HTD


Do you think the ZA12 would fit better? Or even because of my grip maybe I should use another mouse?

Thanks


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tehelelol*
> 
> Hey there,
> I just bought the ZA11 but I am not sure if the ZA12 would fit me better.
> I used the EC1-A before.
> 
> Here you can see my grip / mouse size:
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/M1HTD
> 
> 
> Do you think the ZA12 would fit better? Or even because of my grip maybe I should use another mouse?
> 
> Thanks


Does not look too bad, but judging by your grip the 12 may be a bit better. How does it feel in your hand shape and weight wise? That's what matters most, we can only give you so much, you are holding the mouse so let us know how it feels.


----------



## hungragezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Does not look too bad, but judging by your grip the 12 may be a bit better. How does it feel in your hand shape and weight wise? That's what matters most, we can only give you so much, you are holding the mouse so let us know how it feels.


What do u think about mine?
should i go for ZA for FK one?

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5b/350x700px-LL-5bab6c44_20160524_190237.jpeg
http://cdn.overclock.net/4/4a/350x700px-LL-4acffbcb_20160524_190244.jpeg


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hungragezone*
> 
> What do u think about mine?
> should i go for ZA for FK one?
> 
> http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5b/350x700px-LL-5bab6c44_20160524_190237.jpeg
> http://cdn.overclock.net/4/4a/350x700px-LL-4acffbcb_20160524_190244.jpeg


Your hand looks a bit short,2 pic looks like a palmgrip, 1st is different, more fingertip. Which do you use? Fk would be better.


----------



## hungragezone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Your hand looks a bit short,2 pic looks like a palmgrip, 1st is different, more fingertip. Which do you use? Fk would be better.


Im a hybrid type, not all palm, not all finger
the last mouse i use is sensei raw, and i feel very comfortable with it


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hungragezone*
> 
> Im a hybrid type, not all palm, not all finger
> the last mouse i use is sensei raw, and i feel very comfortable with it


Fk is closer to the Sensei. I read that the Fk1+ is the closest to that shape. I have not gotten my hands on it so I have no personal say in that area, only what I read. The DM1 pro is a Sensei clone, that one I have had a hands on with for a good amount of time.


----------



## starmanwarz

So I just ordered a ZA11. I am trying to find a mouse that I REALLY like but it seems impossible for some reason.

Mice I used I used in the past 2 months are:

DA2013. Good shape, good tracking, hate everything else (light buttons, low quality materials, rubber)

FK1. Everything is great but I hate it's shape, it's way too small and I can't hold it properly

EC1-A. Best shape out of all the mice I've tested. I had to sell it though because I hated how light M1 and M2 were but the thing I hated the most was the coating. A nightmare for my sweaty hands. Also very loud scroll wheel.

Rival 300. Love the buttons, LOVE the coating, decent scroll wheel, I can't get used to it's shape though, no matter how I hold it. It is however the mouse I am using for 2 months and I prefer it to everything else.

My hands are 20 cm. I think that the ZA11 might be a good choice. I really don't have a particular grip style, I guess it depends on the mouse. Most important think is shape for me, then tracking, coating, button feel, quality.

How would you compare the ZA11 to the other mice I mentioned, do you think it's going to be a good choice?


----------



## mint567

ZA11 is very close to rival 300. To me the ZA11 hump feels higher than the rival. The mouse will feel more centered in your hand. Rival has a little more boxy feel to it. All in all the two are very similar in size. It may be the mouse you are looking for.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starmanwarz*
> 
> So I just ordered a ZA11. I am trying to find a mouse that I REALLY like but it seems impossible for some reason.
> 
> Mice I used I used in the past 2 months are:
> 
> DA2013. Good shape, good tracking, hate everything else (light buttons, low quality materials, rubber)
> 
> FK1. Everything is great but I hate it's shape, it's way too small and I can't hold it properly
> 
> EC1-A. Best shape out of all the mice I've tested. I had to sell it though because I hated how light M1 and M2 were but the thing I hated the most was the coating. A nightmare for my sweaty hands. Also very loud scroll wheel.
> 
> Rival 300. Love the buttons, LOVE the coating, decent scroll wheel, I can't get used to it's shape though, no matter how I hold it. It is however the mouse I am using for 2 months and I prefer it to everything else.
> 
> My hands are 20 cm. I think that the ZA11 might be a good choice. I really don't have a particular grip style, I guess it depends on the mouse. Most important think is shape for me, then tracking, coating, button feel, quality.
> 
> How would you compare the ZA11 to the other mice I mentioned, do you think it's going to be a good choice?


How was the FK1 to small, FK1+ is wider which helps most people that thought it was to narrow to grip/hold.
So might wanna check that out. Ino have a review here off it.


----------



## starmanwarz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> The mouse will feel more centered in your hand. Rival has a little more boxy feel to it.


Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted to hear.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> How was the FK1 to small, FK1+ is wider which helps most people that thought it was to narrow to grip/hold.
> So might wanna check that out. Ino have a review here off it.


Yeah I read about the FK1+, the thing is that being wider is not enough, need some height as well.


----------



## dogroll

The great debate: Ducky Secret or Zowie ZA11?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogroll*
> 
> The great debate: Ducky Secret or Zowie ZA11?


Za11, easy.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogroll*
> 
> The great debate: Ducky Secret or Zowie ZA11?


Ducky Secret because it uses an ALPs scroller, verses the disaster within the Zowie camp.

Also the PBT casing is superior to the cheap and nasty spray on rubber coating of the Zowie. Also think the Zowie brigade is too expensive when you start looking at their actual features and performance.

Also as a side note, when you buy the current range of BenQ Zowies be prepared to RMA it because it will break down faster than most normal mice.


----------



## hungragezone

What do u guy think, 1 or 2 is better (or right/wrong)


----------



## NovaGOD

I have a problem with my ZA11, i plugged it in to play some overwatch(didnt want to stress the g900







) and i noticed a weird thing, when i press the LMB sometimes it feels like im pressing two buttons there is another click/crack on the shell(its not double click), its hard to describe but something is cracking when i press the LMB hard.

Is there a guide to open the mouse or something? any suggestions?


----------



## Nyllet1983

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hungragezone*
> 
> What do u guy think, 1 or 2 is better (or right/wrong)


I personally prefer the grip on the first picture. Thats how i hold my mouse but we all prefer different gripstyles.


----------



## frunction

I think it's best to switch between palm up or palm down depending on if your swiping (palm up) or making small movements and need control (palm down).

I would say the ZA11 design is for the first grip though, for the second a different mouse might be better.


----------



## Nivity

ZA13 or FK2, anyone tried these 2 and compared clicks? Which is easier to press, and by how much.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> ZA13 or FK2, anyone tried these 2 and compared clicks? Which is easier to press, and by how much.


The FK and the ZA13 felt similar in terms of actuation force. The ZA13 has more definitive clicks.

Choose the shape you like more and modify the buttons piece to decrease the actuation force requirements.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> ZA13 or FK2, anyone tried these 2 and compared clicks? Which is easier to press, and by how much.


They are both similar, don't expect any ground breaking difference. That said, ZA13 gets quite soft after months of use, but still has the hueno feedback after each click compared to other mice.

There is no running away from Zowie buttons, only the ec2-a (imo) is the softest because of the shell design, but none of them are going to be like a g303 or any of the others.


----------



## Arttur101

Can anyone here who have owned FK1 and ZA11 tell me does the ZA11 feel much heavier than FK1? I used EC1-a for a long time and now bought FK1 and I love how light it is. Shape isn't bad too but maybe I would like that bulkier hump. Too bad my new FK1 has rattling mwheel and I'm going to send it back. EC1 definitely feels too heavy after using FK1.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arttur101*
> 
> Can anyone here who have owned FK1 and ZA11 tell me does the ZA11 feel much heavier than FK1? I used EC1-a for a long time and now bought FK1 and I love how light it is. Shape isn't bad too but maybe I would like that bulkier hump. Too bad my new FK1 has rattling mwheel and I'm going to send it back. EC1 definitely feels too heavy after using FK1.


EC1-A: 97g
EC2-A: 93g
FK1: 90g
ZA11: 90g

ZA shouldn't feel heavier than the FK1


----------



## toulalaho

Hello,
My favorite shape for a mouse was the Microsoft wheel mouse optical.

The dimension and the weight of the ZA 11 looks similar.
Do you think It will fit me like the Microsoft wmo ?


----------



## Manspider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toulalaho*
> 
> Hello,
> My favorite shape for a mouse was the Microsoft wheel mouse optical.
> 
> The dimension and the weight of the ZA 11 looks similar.
> Do you think It will fit me like the Microsoft wmo ?


Zowie FK2 is probably the closest to a WMO in terms of size / shape out of Zowie's range. ZA11 is slightly longer and much taller.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manspider*
> 
> Zowie FK2 is probably the closest to a WMO in terms of size / shape out of Zowie's range. ZA11 is slightly longer and much taller.


Have to disagree a little. I could hold the wmo with no problems, while the fk2 is not only smaller but also more narrow, making it feel like a stick in comparison. The FK2 simple does not have the width or shape to be the same.

Imo the ZA12 is much more accurate feel of the wmo.


----------



## frewp

is it possible to move the 24 step mousewheel FK1 into a ZA? I've never opened a mouse so I have no idea
if it's not possible I might consider buying an older ZA with the white mousewheel since I can't stand this 16-step one


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> is it possible to move the 24 step mousewheel FK1 into a ZA? I've never opened a mouse so I have no idea
> if it's not possible I might consider buying an older ZA with the white mousewheel since I can't stand this 16-step one


ahh shoot, I was considering trying this mouse too, but 16-step isn't my jam either. I thought they were at 24 step now, but maybe they reverted back again... sigh.

another Q: anyone tried JP omrons in this one? I don't like the heavy actuation of the FK1, and heard this is fairly similar (a bit lighter, but still too stiff).


----------



## ncck

Does anyone own the latest ZA (black/red one) and use a QCK heavy without issues? The one I'm testing malfunctions constantly on it and I don't know why


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Does anyone own the latest ZA (black/red one) and use a QCK heavy without issues? The one I'm testing malfunctions constantly on it and I don't know why


yes, no problems here

edit: *** is happening with my text editor


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> lets call it Zowie ZK-2 then xD
> yes, no problems here


Do you think I received a faulty one? I'm using the newest qck heavy as well (the one with the qck logos on the back) I contacted zowie support so I'll see what they say but yeah mine shuts off constantly when playing and there's no way I'm hitting the PCS


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Do you think I received a faulty one? I'm using the newest qck heavy as well (the one with the qck logos on the back) I contacted zowie support so I'll see what they say but yeah mine shuts off constantly when playing and there's no way I'm hitting the PCS


try to change the Lift of distance, maybe it is set wrong.
Quote:


> "LOD (lift off distance) is VERY low at the default setting, which is for "cloth pads". You can change the LOD to a "plastic pad" setting by:
> 
> - holding the back button on the side and right mouse button while plugging the mouse in
> 
> To set the LOD back to "cloth pad" setting:
> 
> - holding the back button on the side and left mouse button while plugging the mouse in
> 
> There is also a higher LOD, you can change to this by:
> 
> - holding the back button on the side and the left and right buttons at the same time while plugging the mouse in"


----------



## ncck

[redacted]


----------



## plyr

Need to know if FK and ZA have the same mousefeet?

takasta only sell AM/FK feet at the moment :/

Also, whats the weight of the original feet that comes with the mouse? 0.45mm?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> Need to know if FK and ZA have the same mousefeet?
> 
> takasta only sell AM/FK feet at the moment :/
> 
> Also, whats the weight of the original feet that comes with the mouse? 0.45mm?


ZA11 ZA12 FK2 FK1 share the same feet

ZA13 has different feet


----------



## slothiraptor

Ya I figured out the hard way that the za13 has different sized feet. I needed to get some feet fast so I decided to slap these on it. A little expensive but they work great.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> - Change LOD settings.  Follow the steps below:
> 
> a)    If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
> 
> ·         Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> b)    If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
> 
> ·         Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> c)     If you want to back to standard setting:
> 
> ·         Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> I used step A and it seems to have lessened the likeliness of it occuring. I can make it happen on the desktop if I swipe pretty fast but in-game it didn't occur yet after adjusting it. Is it possible I was just hitting the PCS while playing? My sensitivity is low but it shouldn't be low enough to hit the PCS... I also had this issue with a logitech g303 on a qck heavy but the issue disappeared when I changed mousepads; oddly enough the G900 doesn't have the issue on a qck heavy and it's the same sensor as the g303.
> 
> Could it be possible the surface of the qck heavy makes the PCS lower? Or the surface itself? Also does raising the LOD have any side effects? I do notice that it changed because the cursor now tracks when the mouse is slightly higher on the pad but doesn't seem too crazy, in-game it felt a little different but I'm assuming that's because when I go to lift on a lower LOD it would stop tracking sooner so this one seems more sensitive to motion... I would try another mouse pad but the reality is the qck heavy is the best pad I've used and I'm not interested in changing it... just hope this revision they made isn't the reason why it's happening
> 
> weird thing is zowie support told me to do the same thing so I guess others have had the same issue
> 
> edit: Actually now that I think about it the steelseries rival 300 was having tracking issues as well and that was because steelseries updated to the latest firmware of the 3310.. so I'm going to assume zowie's newest mice use this new 3310 and it has the same issue.. and I'm guessing the surface/weave of the qck heavy brings out the errors? I don't have another surface to test atm but uh yeah...
> 
> edit2: I checked and every single 'CS' pro using a zowie ZA is not using a qck heavy; all of them are using either the G-SR/goliathus/g640
> 
> edit3: Setting B seems to work even better..... honestly idk if it's a mouse problem, mousepad problem, or pc supplying power to usb problem... ugh


What the heck is PCS?


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> What the heck is PCS?


perfect control speed... kind of outdated term, but basically speed before a mouse hit neg/pos accel, like the Microsoft Intellimouse series.


----------



## Axaion

how is it outdated? it literally describes what it means

there is no need to come up with another word for it


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> how is it outdated? it literally describes what it means
> 
> there is no need to come up with another word for it


well, it's not the same as malfunction speed, and PCS does technically not describe perfect control, as even 3310 and all those have a little bit of variance. which is on many speeds.
I don't think it's very accurate.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Can we call them "clipping speed" instead?


----------



## ncck

That whole post is irrelevant besides the LOD settings if anyone looks them up

The issue was a bad USB port/driver conflict on my motherboard (ASrock z77 extreme 4) simply using the Intel USB 3.0 port fixed the problem entirely


----------



## Demi9OD

After a lot of research I finally made the switch from my ancient 2011 MX518 to the ZA12. For those still using the MX510/MX518/G400/G400s, the fit of the ZA12 is great. If you're like me, you use the boarder around the buttons of the 518 to rest your ring finger. The ZA series is one of the few newer gaming mice that still has a boarder instead of fully extended buttons, and my hand position is nearly identical to what I am used to. I still use a modified claw/palm grip with only the right side of my palm below my pinky resting on the butt of the mouse. This position wouldn't have worked with the FK series. I have 19cm hands.


----------



## kevinzone

what has lower button latency. the za or the deathadder chroma?


----------



## mint567

I don't know the latency difference between the two but I can tell you my ZA11 has much stiffer clicks than my Chroma.


----------



## Timecard

I had to slightly mod my ZA13 to have normal clicks.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1411253/how-to-repair-razer-buttons#post_25313156


----------



## thesebastian

Shall I get ZA11 or ZA12 for palm grip? (18cm hand).

(I've been using a DeathAdder 3.5G, the old one, heavier, for 5 years).


----------



## CeeSA

18cm? I would tend to the ZA12.


----------



## Demi9OD

If you like the size of the DA though, the ZA12 will seem a bit small.


----------



## thesebastian

Thanks both of you.

The DA is not bad, I don't like the weight (about 140 grams) but if I try to completely palm it, my fingers stick out of the place.
But normally I use the hand a bit more behind the mouse and in that position I could use a smaller mouse.

I think the ZA12 is the best option.


----------



## Pa12a

Hey, anyone who comes from the FK series might answer this more accurately but idk...

Like I would like a shorter mouse like the ZA12/13, but I'm not sure if the slope is so steep that it might become troublesome for me to click the buttons properly. (I put my fingers at the same height as the FK1's wheel starts at the bottom).

Also, what are the buttons like? More like the FK or more like the EC-A, or in between? Same for the side buttons, are they as noticeable as the FK or do they stick out more? I don't have problems on the FK's.


----------



## munchzilla

lighter than FK (original one) by a fair bit. I don't remember EC-A clicks since I only had it for 2 weeks.


----------



## Demi9OD

Heavier than an EC-A for sure, I've never tried an FK.

You can actuate the ZA12 with your finger all the way below the wheel, so you should be fine.


----------



## maibuN

The scrollwheel of the za11 is a bad joke. By far the worst wheel i have ever seen in any mouse, including 5€ office mice. I think I have to return it instantly because of that.


----------



## predict

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> The scrollwheel of the za11 is a bad joke. By far the worst wheel i have ever seen in any mouse, including 5€ office mice. I think I have to return it instantly because of that.


To be honest it is not only 11 but also 12. Just returned my ZA 12 due to that wheel.


----------



## ncck

Zowie's scroll wheel has always been terrible - they have possibly one of the worst scroll wheels in the market. That and their clicks have always been bad

But the shapes/coating/cable/and simple implementation have been great so that's why they're still an option to many


----------



## maibuN

The wheel of the nonbenq ec1-a is ok. It is not good/perfect but it is absolutely ok/usable. But this wheel of the benq za11 ............................. omg. Cable is also pretty bad. The cable of the ec1-a is smoother and doesn`t drag on the mousepad like the za11 cable but maybe it`s just smoother because it has been used for a while. Coating is pretty good on the benq za11 but worse on the ec1-a. I don`t know if they changed the coating or if its gets more slippery over time when it smooths out a bit.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Zowie's scroll wheel has always been terrible - they have possibly one of the worst scroll wheels in the market. That and their clicks have always been bad
> 
> But the shapes/coating/cable/and simple implementation have been great so that's why they're still an option to many


You feel the Zowie clicks are bad?? I love the Ec series clicks. The others aren't horrid to me, i can put up with them. Ec has the best out of there line up to me though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> The wheel of the nonbenq ec1-a is ok. It is not good/perfect but it is absolutely ok/usable. But this wheel of the benq za11 ............................. omg. Cable is also pretty bad. The cable of the ec1-a is smoother and doesn`t drag on the mousepad like the za11 cable but maybe it`s just smoother because it has been used for a while. Coating is pretty good on the benq za11 but worse on the ec1-a. I don`t know if they changed the coating or if its gets more slippery over time when it smooths out a bit.


Never have i had an issue with the Zowie cables. Idk what's up with yours.


----------



## bloodyredd

I would like to ask which of the 3 should I buy. I've been using a Roccat Savu for a few years now and it double clicks everything. I'm really comfortable right now with the size of savu and I use palm grip.
Would it be good for me to get the ZA12 since it doesn't differ that much in size?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloodyredd*
> 
> I would like to ask which of the 3 should I buy. I've been using a Roccat Savu for a few years now and it double clicks everything. I'm really comfortable right now with the size of savu and I use palm grip.
> Would it be good for me to get the ZA12 since it doesn't differ that much in size?


If you like the Savu you should try and replace the switches. Once they're replaced the mouse will last you another few years.


----------



## bloodyredd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> If you like the Savu you should try and replace the switches. Once they're replaced the mouse will last you another few years.


I don't really like the Savu but it's already worn enough for me to replace. So yeah would the zowie ZA12 good to replace it?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bloodyredd*
> 
> I don't really like the Savu but it's already worn enough for me to replace. So yeah would the zowie ZA12 good to replace it?


Comparing the dimensions, I think the ZA12 is the most similar in size. If you've got your sights locked on a Zowie then go for it. Just be aware that people have reported quality control issues on the latest BenQ models (black scroll, red logo)

Edit: I'm actually a fan of the KPM, which seems similar to the Savu, and, after using the FK2, I think I'd prefer the ZA12's profile/height


----------



## thesebastian

I've just received a ZA12. Very nice mouse!

However, I can't decide the best DPI settings for Windows and in general.

Now I'm using 1600 DPI (6/11 in Windows), but I'm more comfortable using 5/11 in Windows ( and 1200 dpi ~ in total).

Is a bad thing to skip the std "6/11" 1:1 ?

(Regarding the polling rate, I think I'm using 1000Hz).


----------



## Bucake

if it's comfortable for you, then don't worry.
though, have you tried 4/11 to see how you like that? it's slightly more consistent than 5/11 is (but of course also less DPI).


----------



## thesebastian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> if it's comfortable for you, then don't worry.
> though, have you tried 4/11 to see how you like that? it's slightly more consistent than 5/11 is (but of course also less DPI).


Yes I've tried 4/11 but was slow..
I'm trying to adapt my hand to 6/11 & 1600 dpi, so far it's not bad, but I need more days and try more time!

I'm loving this mouse the shape and the switches. I think they're huano, however, they are not as hard as I though (I'm glad about this) because I can easily spam the clicks.


----------



## Alya

5/11 Windows sensitivity will drop every 4th count, and counts require at least 1 pixel of movement (iirc) so it may feel like your cursor will get "sticky" every 4th pixel, the same happens to the G100s. I would recommend 6/11, or 4/11 and below. 5/11 and above 6/11 will feel like interpolation.


----------



## Demi9OD

I feel you on the 1200 dpi. I went from 800 dpi on a 1280*1024 screen to 1200 dpi on a 1920*1280 screen with my MX518, which felt totally natural. Now with my Zowie I can't do 1200 dpi any more. Personally I use 5/11 (I think effectively 1333 dpi, 5/6 of 1600) in Windows and switch to 6/11 for gaming.

Oh and I've read the Zowie implementation of the 3310 runs better at 500hz so that's what I run.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> 5/11 Windows sensitivity will drop every 4th count, and counts require at least 1 pixel of movement (iirc) so it may feel like your cursor will get "sticky" every 4th pixel, *the same happens to the G100s*.


huh?
have i missed something about the am010?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demi9OD*
> 
> I feel you on the 1200 dpi. I went from 800 dpi on a 1280*1024 screen to 1200 dpi on a 1920*1280 screen with my MX518, which felt totally natural. Now with my Zowie I can't do 1200 dpi any more. Personally I use 5/11 (I think effectively 1333 dpi, 5/6 of 1600) in Windows and switch to 6/11 for gaming.


1200 with the MX518? that would already be interpolated, because it has 400 or 800 and 1600 or 1800 native steps.
notch 5/11 with 1600cpi means 1200 dpi, because (as Alya mentioned) 1 in 4 counts will be dropped


----------



## Demi9OD

It was probably interpolated, I didn't care enough at the time to notice.


----------



## Bucake

that's fine, my only point was that maybe you got used to that interpolated feeling with the mx518, and now it's hard(er) to get used to 1600 with 5/11, with the zowie mouse


----------



## Demi9OD

Oh 5/11 at 1600 feels fine in Windows. Cursor lands where it should without thinking about it. I admin servers, not design graphics or edit photos. I was commiserating with thesebastian that getting used to 1600 from 1200 after years of icon and menu clicking felt weird. Looking forward to trying the G Pro when the price drops though for the best of both words. 1200 dpi without interp and 6/11 will be nice.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> huh?
> have i missed something about the am010?
> 1200 with the MX518? that would already be interpolated, because it has 400 or 800 and 1600 or 1800 native steps.
> notch 5/11 with 1600cpi means 1200 dpi, because (as Alya mentioned) 1 in 4 counts will be dropped


If the G100s is set to 400 DPI then every 4th pixel will become "sticky" per say, the G402 doesn't allow you to set in 50 CPI steps, but 80, while the G100s allows 50.


----------



## slothiraptor

I just switched the "springs" from the omrons on my dead G502 to my ZA13. The clicks are so much better now


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slothiraptor*
> 
> I just switched the "springs" from the omrons on my dead G502 to my ZA13. The clicks are so much better now


It might have been the same if you simply put the Huano leaf spring back into the switch because when you take the spring out and put it back in the spring becomes weaker.


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It might have been the same if you simply put the Huano leaf spring back into the switch because when you take the spring out and put it back in the spring becomes weaker.


Possibly, but it feels better none the less.


----------



## frewp

Is it possible to swap the internals of an Old yellow 24-step mousewheel FK1 and BenQ ZA12, and do I gotta solder or anything because I'd prefer not to.

ZA12 16-step just feels like complete ass and it also rattles, so to fix it I'd rather just swap the internals for the 24-step scroll wheel









Edit:

Did the swap. Haven't finished swapping the internals of the ZA12 into the FK1 yet, probably another day lol
Didn't realize how easy this was, the internals of each mouse are exactly the same besides the steps of the mousewheels and they line up perfectly with each shell.


----------



## Timecard

I just got a G240 mousepad today and tracking consistency for ZA13 improved quite significantly over my current steelseries QCK+, I think others have also noted that SS QCK isn't very good with the Zowie mice previously.


----------



## SynergyCB

Im a EC2 user thats interested in the ZA12. How does the ZA scroll wheel compare to the EC? Louder, stiffer, same? Heard people say that M1 and M2 are stiff. Are we talking FK stiffness or not that bad? Also would you guys recommend the ZA12 for my 19cm hand? My grip is a Claw/Palm hybrid.


----------



## ncck

Uh I personally wasn't into the za12 it was a hair too small in length/width

I think your hand may be fairly big for it but I'm about 19.8 cm


----------



## Vario

I got a ZA13 but I am not entirely sold on it. It performs well in games but my hand starts to hurt. Doesn't feel long enough for me so my fingers overhang the end and the back doesn't feel wide enough to support my palm. I wish the buttons were taller and the wheel was farther forward so my index finger didn't need to curl back as much to scroll the wheel. Looking at the photos I posted it is clear this mouse is too short in length. What do you guys suggest? I put my palm on top of the mouse rather than at the back of it, basically as it is shown in the pictures.

I have an 18 CM hand and I use a palm/claw hybrid where I keep the heel of my hand on top of the mouse rather than behind it. What type of Zowie should I buy instead? I have a few days left to return the ZA13.

Should I get a ZA11, 12, or EC? Or FK1?

If it helps I like the WMO shape and prefer ambidextrous.


----------



## Timecard

Probably AM or FK


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timecard*
> 
> Probably AM or FK


I can get an AM (black and red variant) on ebay for ~$30. Does the height of the buttons and wheel feel similar to WMO? The WMO is taller in that area then the ZA series on button and wheel. Length of the ZA wouldn't be as bad except for the lack of height on the front buttons and wheel.

I'm leaning towards a ZA11 or ZA12 since it would put the scroll wheel and buttons further forward and that would mean I wouldnt curl my fingers as much to operate the wheel even if the height of the wheel is still 27mm.

If I use the 13 in a traditional palm grip with my elbow more on the table and the butt of the mouse more on my fore-palm, the pinkie and ring finger hang off the side because its too narrow, so its clear the 13 is too small regardless.

Does anyone have a side by side of a ZA11 and 13 similar to this picture?









from Arizonian's review here http://www.overclock.net/products/zowie-gear-za12-gaming-mouse/reviews/7165


----------



## syrell

sadly the tail with 62mm is still to wide for me!


----------



## falcon26

I have large hands 20cm. I tried all 3 ZA models the 11,12 and 13. In the end with my wide and long hands the ZA 11 was best form fit for me.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> I have large hands 20cm. I tried all 3 ZA models the 11,12 and 13. In the end with my wide and long hands the ZA 11 was best form fit for me.


Thanks I will send you a PM


----------



## m0uz

Just a quick note to those looking at tranferring PCBs between Zowie's ambi mice:

The ZA-series PCB and FK-series PCB is not intercompatible due to the FK series needing this capacitor (see below) to be bent in order for the top PCB to fit and for the shell to close.



Edit: My (white) ZA11 PCB doesn't have the bent capacitor shown and doesn't fit in my FK1+


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Just a quick note to those looking at tranferring PCBs between Zowie's ambi mice:
> 
> The ZA-series PCB and FK-series PCB is not intercompatible due to the FK series needing this capacitor (see below) to be bent in order for the top PCB to fit and for the shell to close.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: My (white) ZA11 PCB doesn't have the bent capacitor shown and doesn't fit in my FK1+


well you can bend it right?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> well you can bend it right?


I tried







Not enough length on the pins


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I tried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not enough length on the pins


If you dont mind voiding warranty could get a new cap of same type and solder it so that it has more lead length.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> If you dont mind voiding warranty could get a new cap of same type and solder it so that it has more lead length.


Warranty was void immediately







And, yes, I could do that, I suppose


----------



## Vario

I just ordered the ZA11 hope this works out


----------



## syrell

I tested the ZA13 and the mousewheel is really thw orst I v ever had- the 16 steps is way not enough to be comfortable! thethe sensor and the shape is great!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> I tested the ZA13 and the mousewheel is really thw orst I v ever had- the 16 steps is way not enough to be comfortable! thethe sensor and the shape is great!


16 steps is fine for gaming.


----------



## syrell

I tested the mouse today and the steps are way too big for me! all other mice I tested had smaller steps. I hope they change the whole mousewheel next iteration


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> I tested the mouse today and the steps are way too big for me! all other mice I tested had smaller steps. I hope they change the whole mousewheel next iteration


I don't like the typical 24 detent encoders used in mice. They lack feedback/resistance and can be cumbersome during gaming. I don't mind the feel of that design, but everything else isn't what I want. The ALPS type encoder is probably something I would like/use.


----------



## Aymanb

ZA13 is one of the very mice that I can notice it mid-game and be like, damn this mouse is actually sitting damn perfect in my hands. I wish they would surprise with a sick 3360, better build quality and buttons version. I would buy 3 of them.


----------



## syrell

the 3310 sensor inside the zowie is damn accurate , I dont even know if a 3360 would make th emouse even better


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> the 3310 sensor inside the zowie is damn accurate , I dont even know if a 3360 would make th emouse even better


The 3310 is good indeed, but the 3360 can definitely be an improvement on many aspects. Speeds, consistency and whatever more the 3360 does better than 3310.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> I tested the ZA13 and the mousewheel is really thw orst I v ever had- the 16 steps is way not enough to be comfortable! thethe sensor and the shape is great!


Yeah the mouse wheel is a joke compared with other mice I have used, the rest of the mouse is excellent at 800 DPI.

Edit: returned mouse because of jitter and pixel jump at higher DPI. Hope the next ZA11 doesn't have this, shape was really nice.

edit2: Got replacement and it works perfectly. I think Amazon sent me a previously returned item. The replacement looks much newer and the buttons have more responsive click as well as the sensor working perfectly. Very happy with the ZA11 even though I have 18x9.5 hands.


----------



## Leopardi

I'm using a hybrid palm/fingertip grip, the mouse is tilted to the left like 30 degrees, and I support my G Pro against the base of my pinky. Would the ZA11 with its hump support the grip style better? The G Pro feels a bit too low.


----------



## syrell

the ZA11 is way bigger than the G pro - But the hump is higher also with ZA13- I would give It a try


----------



## Venrar

If you don't mind the size of the G Pro go with the za13. If you find it too small the za12 would probably be a better fit. The hump isn't that much of a problem, and its prominent on both mice, but it lets you rest your pinky on the side of it. There's more surface on the mouse so you can grip it properly.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> If you don't mind the size of the G Pro go with the za13. If you find it too small the za12 would probably be a better fit. The hump isn't that much of a problem, and its prominent on both mice, but it lets you rest your pinky on the side of it. There's more surface on the mouse so you can grip it properly.


Well the G pro feels very small, my fingers go about 1-2cm over if I palm it.

E: I've also had the AM, which felt good otherwise but too thin for me - so I'm still thinking the ZA11 might be what I'm looking for, at 2mm more width?


----------



## syrell

your right the za13 is very narraow then more narrow then the g pro


----------



## Vario

The AM feels a bit smaller than the ZA11. I like it though. With the ZA11 I use 3 fingers on top, index left click, middle finger for mouse wheel, ring for right click, plenty of space and it fills my hand nicely. I'd try the 11 or the FK1+.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Well the G pro feels very small, my fingers go about 1-2cm over if I palm it.
> 
> E: I've also had the AM, which felt good otherwise but too thin for me - so I'm still thinking the ZA11 might be what I'm looking for, at 2mm more width?


----------



## Ligh0ff

what kind of switch are using the za13 2016 (red logo) huano or omron?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ligh0ff*
> 
> what kind of switch are using the za13 2016 (red logo) huano or omron?


The Omron batch of Zowie mice were recalled. It was only one batch. So it should be rare to get a Omron switch mouse. The newest batches are Huano switches.


----------



## Ligh0ff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The Omron batch of Zowie mice were recalled. It was only one batch. So it should be rare to get a Omron switch mouse. The newest batches are Huano switches.


ok,so maybe i'm getting a za13 from italian amazon i hope it's not the omron batch,but there is only one thing holding me back from buyng one,i read on reddit (and a yt video) that the scrollwheel rattle

so i don't know,i have small hands 15/16 cm and i don't know wich is better for claw/palm za13 or ec2a?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ligh0ff*
> 
> ok,so maybe i'm getting a za13 from italian amazon i hope it's not the omron batch,but there is only one thing holding me back from buyng one,i read on reddit (and a yt video) that the scrollwheel rattle
> 
> so i don't know,i have small hands 15/16 cm and i don't know wich is better for claw/palm za13 or ec2a?


The scroll wheel could rattle due to assembly. You can reassemble it to stop it from rattling. You might not want to do that because it could increase friction due to the design. The design of the wheel is lacking, it's something you have to live with if the other things about the mouse you like.

I am not a claw grip player. The ZA13 might be too thin for you and the hump might be too tall. A lot of people seem to prefer the EC2 for various grip styles.


----------



## sjzorilla

Does anyone that used the deathadder before this find it comfortable ? the hump at the back is way different than the deathadders hump in the middle.

And are the white logo ones the omrons ?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> Does anyone that used the deathadder before this find it comfortable ? the hump at the back is way different than the deathadders hump in the middle.
> 
> And are the white logo ones the omrons ?


I'm afraid you won't find any Zowie's with Omrons unless you're lucky enough to stumble upon a second hand one


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I'm afraid you won't find any Zowie's with Omrons unless you're lucky enough to stumble upon a second hand one


ah i see.

I have an ec2 evo cl (older white, red and black one) sitting around, how do the stiffness of the switches compare to the ec2 switches or fk ?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> ah i see.
> 
> I have an ec2 evo cl (older white, red and black one) sitting around, how do the stiffness of the switches compare to the ec2 switches or fk ?


Someone else needs to chime in now. I haven't owned the EC Evo or EC2. I know that the FK switches are decently stiff except for the FK1+'s. They feel a bit lighter for some reason.


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Someone else needs to chime in now. I haven't owned the EC Evo or EC2. I know that the FK switches are decently stiff except for the FK1+'s. They feel a bit lighter for some reason.


I had quite some trouble using the ec2 evo, it was really stiff and i found i couldnt just use the weight of my finger to activate the lmb to shoot and i found myself flicking and not shooting. Hoping the ZA11's arent that stiff, found one for $45 free shipping white logo


----------



## syrell

i had both here, the ZA clicks were better than the evo


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> i had both here, the ZA clicks were better than the evo


By better do you mean less stiff? I have plenty of mice and despite the ec2 shape being one of my favourites, the stiff clicks are a huge dealbreaker and im going to have to sadly skip the za11 if it's that stiff


----------



## syrell

for me the buttons of the za were leff stiff and also the traveled way wa shorter. But I think at the end u have to test it yourself.


----------



## wonderboysam

Just got the ZA13 today (first Zowie 3310), Surprisingly I quite like the shape but it isn't tracking as well as expected. First time I've suspected my mouse mat as the problem (Logitech G240). I think its because its so thin? (1mm).

On the low LOD setting it doesn't move left yet moves right albeit not well.
It tracks on medium but feels sluggish, I'll have problems turning and looking up and down swiftly.
And on the high LOD setting it moves freely but I doesn't feel in control as I would've hoped.

Anyone have a similar experience with the G240 & Zowie? Do I just have to get used to it? Gimme yo opinions please!!


----------



## syrell

what kind of pad u are using? I never had any problems with a Zowie mice - redlogo) Im using a razer giganthus cloth pad speedversion. I used default LOD. Uninstall al other mouse software. I had recognization problems while logitech software installed


----------



## Leopardi

Anyone that could take a side picture of ZA11/12/13 with a G Pro or G100s to show the hump?


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Anyone that could take a side picture of ZA11/12/13 with a G Pro or G100s to show the hump?


found dis

http://i.imgur.com/Ol1rmmk.jpg


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> found dis
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/Ol1rmmk.jpg


Yeah but that doesn't really help, can't get a view of the hump from top view.


----------



## syrell

the hump is way higher than the G pro- I had a picture but I already deleted it. But when your fingers are not layed down on the G Pro there is till space for the Za13


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> what kind of pad u are using? I never had any problems with a Zowie mice - redlogo) Im using a razer giganthus cloth pad speedversion. I used default LOD. Uninstall al other mouse software. I had recognization problems while logitech software installed


Thank you, that's a good suggestion, I currently have Logitech & Roccat drivers installed! and have the roccat LOD setting set to low as far as I can remember

edit: Does anyone have a link to that program to delete old usb devices/drivers? Can never find it


----------



## Leopardi

Okay, I got the ZA11 thinking it would be like the AM but wider, but it actually feels even bigger than the original Rival or IME 1.1 with my grip style. It feels huge, the size of the hump prevents me from reaching the scroll wheel and any fingertip adjustments in my aim:



I really wonder if the hump in ZA12 or ZA13 would act the same way preventing the fingertip fine aiming... any recommendations, try the ZA12?


----------



## Ligh0ff

just got my zowie za 13 (benq model) the scroll wheel is so light and it isn't tactile,it feels like **** is this normal? i switch weapon with the wheel in cs go and with this kind of wheel i can't properly awp (fast change)


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Okay, I got the ZA11 thinking it would be like the AM but wider, but it actually feels even bigger than the original Rival or IME 1.1 with my grip style. It feels huge, the size of the hump prevents me from reaching the scroll wheel and any fingertip adjustments in my aim:
> 
> 
> 
> I really wonder if the hump in ZA12 or ZA13 would act the same way preventing the fingertip fine aiming... any recommendations, try the ZA12?


I think this will not change much to go for the ZA12 - the hump is nearly the same I would go for the fk, which is flatter if the hump bothers u


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ligh0ff*
> 
> just got my zowie za 13 (benq model) the scroll wheel is so light and it isn't tactile,it feels like **** is this normal? i switch weapon with the wheel in cs go and with this kind of wheel i can't properly awp (fast change)


yeah the scrollwheel is a pain in the ass, I send my za13 back. I could not use it!


----------



## Ligh0ff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> yeah the scrollwheel is a pain in the ass, I send my za13 back. I could not use it!


what did you get instead?


----------



## Vario

Get an FK2 or AM or ZA13 or EC2 with that handsize I think. Can always buy and return until you figure it out.


----------



## syrell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ligh0ff*
> 
> what did you get instead?


the scrollwheel is all the same at all zowies sadly. I use my modded G3 atm
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> Get an FK2 or AM or ZA13 or EC2 with that handsize I think. Can always buy and return until you figure it out.


the ZA 13 will be to narrow for u


----------



## Ihateallmice

nobody should ever switch their weapons with scrollwheel. l2p


----------



## syrell

nobody should ever jump with scrollwheel


----------



## Ligh0ff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> nobody should ever switch their weapons with scrollwheel. l2p


i've changed my way of switching weapon on the keyboard but still the scroll wheel rattle su much that when i flick i can feel it rattle.... that build quality... just after 2/3 days of use it feels like 2/3 years old


----------



## HITTI

I've got the Zowie ZA11 2015 model mouse. It is 14 months old, sept. 14, 2015. is when I bought it.

I've got a double click issue on the left click button.

I sent in an RMA request but I don't think it will go through as its over a year old.

Does anyone have a suggestion or solution to the problem?


----------



## syrell

@HITTI disassemble the mouse! look at the plastic clicker which is pushing the switch down. Look if there is a gap there. the plastic can have a notch there , u can fill it up with some superglue!


If this was not the problem, watch the video!


----------



## crzg

I got a flawless ZA12 benq model from german ebay for 20€. Really happy with it so far.

Its like every issue i had with EC and FK series is fixed in ZA.

Its way grippier than EC and the hump is perfect. EC2-A was unuseable for me because it felt too small and slippery, with the ZA12 I don't get annoyed by the small size because of that amazing shape.

For me, the ZA12 shape easily beats any other ambidextrous mouse Ive tried.

Great product !


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crzg*
> 
> I got a flawless ZA12 benq model from german ebay for 20€. Really happy with it so far.
> 
> Its like every issue i had with EC and FK series is fixed in ZA.
> 
> Its way grippier than EC and the hump is perfect. EC2-A was unuseable for me because it felt too small and slippery, with the ZA12 I don't get annoyed by the small size because of that amazing shape.
> 
> For me, the ZA12 shape easily beats any other ambidextrous mouse Ive tried.
> 
> Great product !


Nice. I have the 11, I want to try the 12 just waiting for a good ebay deal. 11 is just slightly too big for me, worried 12 will be too small. But with 11 I can use 3 fingers on top, which is pretty nice.


----------



## crzg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> Nice. I have the 11, I want to try the 12 just waiting for a good ebay deal. 11 is just slightly too big for me, worried 12 will be too small. But with 11 I can use 3 fingers on top, which is pretty nice.


I have rather large hands and usually prefer bigger mice but in this case I prefer the ZA12 to the 11.

ZA11 feels more comfortable at first but I noticed that ZA12 gives me much better performance in-game and my hand got fully used to it after a few days. The hump really makes it feel bigger than it is.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crzg*
> 
> I have rather large hands and usually prefer bigger mice but in this case I prefer the ZA12 to the 11.
> 
> ZA11 feels more comfortable at first but I noticed that ZA12 gives me much better performance in-game and my hand got fully used to it after a few days. The hump really makes it feel bigger than it is.


I think my hands are getting used to the longer shape, its nice how light it is for its size and the sensor is further forward because its big for my hand, which is a plus for me, my brain seems to guide the mouse to its target easier. I have to get used to relaxing my hand around it.


----------



## HITTI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> @HITTI disassemble the mouse! look at the plastic clicker which is pushing the switch down. Look if there is a gap there. the plastic can have a notch there , u can fill it up with some superglue!
> 
> 
> If this was not the problem, watch the video!


Thanks bud.

Regards to the sliders under the mouse. I do not have a spare pair brand new. Recommendations on still taking the mouse apart as I do not have spare sliders.


----------



## davidnggt

Just got this mouse second-hand today. Man, the scroll wheel on Zowie mice are absurdly bad.


----------



## syrell

yeah its terrible for me too


----------



## RaleighStClair

Between the Zowie FK and ZA series mice which is closest shape to the Nixeus Revel?


----------



## Timecard

FK series is the most similar to Sensei, Xai nd Nixeus, I have ZA13 thinking it mighr have similar shape... it does not and is uncomfortable.

Watch this video to get an idea, he shows comparison of mice size with similar shape as sensei and nixeus side by side with FK series mice.


----------



## sjzorilla

would anyone be kind enough to upload some comparison pics of the za11 next to the dm1 pro s or nixeus revel? i have both but neither of them really fill my palm as much as i would like them to, and ive been considering the za11 for a while as a worthy replacement


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjzorilla*
> 
> would anyone be kind enough to upload some comparison pics of the za11 next to the dm1 pro s or nixeus revel? i have both but neither of them really fill my palm as much as i would like them to, and ive been considering the za11 for a while as a worthy replacement


za11 will fill the palm, but you are forced in a palm grip strictly.


----------



## nicolovbg

Would anyone be kind to give an advice?

I like my FK2, but wanted to try ZA12 (maybe ZA13). Is there a difference in let's say clicks' stiffness, weight distribution, glide, sensor behaviour or just feeling of the mouse?


----------



## Venrar

The width is the same, the clicks on the za12 are a bit lighter but if you use the scroll wheel a lot and a fingertip grip it can be annoying to press it when you're browsing. The glide on the za12 is better, as it's not as long as the fk2. The za13 has the stiffest clicks of them all and is a fair bit narrower than both of the other two.


----------



## nicolovbg

Thank you for the answer!

Yes, I want to try ZA13 exactly because I use only fingertip grip. I haven't understood why it is annoying to press the wheel button while browsing, though.

Also, on the pictures with measurements from the official site you can see, that both ZA12 and FK2 have the same width and length. Are you sure that FK2 is longer than ZA12? Is the information on the webpage wrong?


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicolovbg*
> 
> Thank you for the answer!
> 
> Yes, I want to try ZA13 exactly because I use only fingertip grip. I haven't understood why it is annoying to press the wheel button while browsing, though.
> 
> Also, on the pictures with measurements from the official site you can see, that both ZA12 and FK2 have the same width and length. Are you sure that FK2 is longer than ZA12? Is the information on the webpage wrong?


Sorry, it was a typo. I meant the ZA13


----------



## IlIkeJuice

ZA11 feels bigger than it looks. Much more so than a FK1. More like a Rival 300. I would suspect the ZA12 would feel bigger too, more like Revel, but can't say for sure.


----------



## atarione

if anyone lives near a fry's electronics the 2x stores near~ish me have a nice Zowie display with all 3 ZA's and the FK's also I chose the ZA11 after trying all of them.

but I'm pretty tall and have long fingers and big~ish hands..

here is my flaking paint Sensei mlg next to the ZA11... for me the transition to ZA11 from Sensei was quite painless I have almost always hated changing mice and at first just had a rough time ..but everything has been smooth sailing so far.. the ZA11 feels bigger certainly which is a plus for me as the Sensei always seemed a bit too small


----------



## nicolovbg

I have bought ZA13. It feels neither big nor small compared to FK2, feels like a little bit different shape because of the hump, sits more firmly.

Perfomance-wise, despite having sluggish sensor (3366>3310) and slightly high click latency (Logitech>...), it just destroys every single mouse I have tried so far. Even buttons feel somehow pleasing to press.

The only concern I have is that I need to apply relatively a lot of force in order to move the mouse. And this just denies tiny pixel-adjustments.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicolovbg*
> 
> The only concern I have is that I need to apply relatively a lot of force in order to move the mouse. And this just denies tiny pixel-adjustments.


Unusual unless you're using a rough mouse pad. Maybe get a new pad with a smooth surface or even go insane, for an all Aluminium one?


----------



## nicolovbg

Wiping the mouse feet with a damp cloth seemed to help!...


----------



## atarione

so have your ZA mice started shinning on the left / right buttons pretty much immediately?? because mine has... which kinda ticks me off for a $60 mouse..

but whatever it still feels pretty good in my larger hands .. but I don't understand why nobody can build a mouse that doesn't show wear almost immediately... or maybe my fingers are more abrasive than anyone else?? whatever.. I don't know..

my hand smothering the heck out of the ZA11 ... glad I got the bigger size..



edit ...not that I would.. because I hate to ..but I could conceivable claw gripe the ZA11... but I don't think most people could..


----------



## SynergyCB

Thinking of buying the ZA12 but have one question. How is the ZA scroll wheel compared to the FK? Love my FK2 but the scroll wheel is awful. EC scroll wheel is a lot smoother than the FK.


----------



## pindle

Can anyone tell me which is closer in feel to the G403, the ZA11 or 12? From the dimensions on the site the ZA12 matches length but is quite some lower, the ZA11 is 4mm longer but almost as high at the hump, is there anyone who can comment on that? I'm also considering the EC1-A (or 2 but think that's too small) but ZA looks to be a better match. My handsize is 19.5x10cm and I palm the mouse (1-2-2).


----------



## shatterboxd3

za11 is a very familiar feel to the 403. both of them fill up the middle of my palm in roughly the same way. Just one is ergo and the other is ambi. I wouldn't think the za12 would do the same with its shorter dimensions


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> za11 is a very familiar feel to the 403. both of them fill up the middle of my palm in roughly the same way. Just one is ergo and the other is ambi. I wouldn't think the za12 would do the same with its shorter dimensions


Thanks, appreciated! What's your handsize if I may ask?

Btw the ZA11 is slightly larger than the G403 according to Zowie's measurements, at least lengthwhise, G403 = 124mm and ZA12 = 124mm. The 11 is 128mm long. Are you possibly referring to a ZA12?


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Thanks, appreciated! What's your handsize if I may ask?
> 
> Btw the ZA11 is slightly larger than the G403 according to Zowie's measurements, at least lengthwhise, G403 = 124mm and ZA12 = 124mm. The 11 is 128mm long. Are you possibly referring to a ZA12?


Definitely talking about the ZA11. Never owned a za12.

Hands are between 20-20.5 and 10-10.5 depending on how its measured. 403 and za11 feel like they reach about the same distance back in the palm of my hand, regardless of total length.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Definitely talking about the ZA11. Never owned a za12.
> 
> Hands are between 20-20.5 and 10-10.5 depending on how its measured. 403 and za11 feel like they reach about the same distance back in the palm of my hand, regardless of total length.


Cool in the end the feeling matters not the measurements (wow read that without context







), just wanted to double check








Last question: I also checked out the EC1-A but I feel, when I compare side views with G403 and ZA11, the hump on the EC1-A is too far forward and thus seems not ideal for palming, have you tried the EC1 and if so could you comment on that?



Added pics from the site. I think I don't need to draw in what I mean, the difference in hump is quite visible







EC1-A resembles the DA hump, more forward placed, a little less steep. The ZA resembles the G403 more, situated more towards the back of the mouse, seems more slanted towards the end also.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Cool in the end the feeling matters not the measurements (wow read that without context
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), just wanted to double check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last question: I also checked out the EC1-A but I feel, when I compare side views with G403 and ZA11, the hump on the EC1-A is too far forward and thus seems not ideal for palming, have you tried the EC1 and if so could you comment on that?


Still definitely a comfortable mouse to palm, doesn't feel out of place at all. Just feels different. I prefer ambi over ergo so thats why I use the za11. The EC1-A is still the only other mouse that stays on my desk other than my za11 right now, and I still use it sometimes. Definitely a comfortable mouse but I feel more in control with the za11


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Still definitely a comfortable mouse to palm, doesn't feel out of place at all. Just feels different. I prefer ambi over ergo so thats why I use the za11. The EC1-A is still the only other mouse that stays on my desk other than my za11 right now, and I still use it sometimes. Definitely a comfortable mouse but I feel more in control with the za11


Just finished editing my post, added pics to clarify the hump position. I find it a bit surprising it still feels good being so different. The EC1-A seems to resemble my DA:E shape roughly and I'm having issues palming it comfortably (using a palm/claw it's great but that beside the point). Well going by your comments I'm fairly sure ZA would fit me better than EC1 but I'm so damn used to the ergo shape


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Just finished editing my post, added pics to clarify the hump position. I find it a bit surprising it still feels good being so different. The EC1-A seems to resemble my DA:E shape roughly and I'm having issues palming it comfortably (using a palm/claw it's great but that beside the point). Well going by your comments I'm fairly sure ZA would fit me better than EC1 but I'm so damn used to the ergo shape


I knew what you meant without pics, like I said, they are both comfortable, just different ways of holding. I just happen to prefer one over the other.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> I knew what you meant without pics, like I said, they are both comfortable, just different ways of holding. I just happen to prefer one over the other.


I'm thinking I'd like the ZA shape better but may have to try both to be sure. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Cool in the end the feeling matters not the measurements (wow read that without context
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), just wanted to double check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last question: I also checked out the EC1-A but I feel, when I compare side views with G403 and ZA11, the hump on the EC1-A is too far forward and thus seems not ideal for palming, have you tried the EC1 and if so could you comment on that?
> 
> 
> 
> Added pics from the site. I think I don't need to draw in what I mean, the difference in hump is quite visible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EC1-A resembles the DA hump, more forward placed, a little less steep. The ZA resembles the G403 more, situated more towards the back of the mouse, seems more slanted towards the end also.


I have a ZA11, EC1, and Zowie AM.
If you have used the Intellimouse Explorer or Deathadder or MX518 and you liked it, get the EC1.
If you have used the Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical and liked it, get the ZA11 (if you want taller mouse) or FK1+ (if you want wider mouse) or FK1, might be narrow for you though. I haven't tried FK but it should be similar to my AM which I find too flat and too narrow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Just finished editing my post, added pics to clarify the hump position. I find it a bit surprising it still feels good being so different. The EC1-A seems to resemble my DA:E shape roughly and I'm having issues palming it comfortably (using a palm/claw it's great but that beside the point). Well going by your comments I'm fairly sure ZA would fit me better than EC1 but I'm so damn used to the ergo shape


EC1 is big for me but I have smaller hands, 17.5 CM. You could try an EC2A. I haven't tried one but I want to. TBH both the 11 and EC1 are big for me but I have been doing well in games with the ZA11 anyway. A lot of people seem to like the EC2 even some of those with larger hands.

Out of the three Zowie mice I have, I like the 11 the best. I tried a 13 and it was way too small for how I hold the mouse. Too short, too narrow, too low. I haven't tried a ZA12, EC2, or FK1/1+ so I can't really weigh in too much on those. I thought the EC1 was comfortable but it is so much less agile for me. I think I'd need massive hands to really do well with the EC1. Also I really love all the ZA11's buttons, nice and crisp, probably because of the shell construction. The EC have terrible buttons especially the two side buttons. I hate the ZA wheel, the EC have better wheels. Also the 11 has a little lip near the front on each side which I love because I can lift the mouse easy. From what I can tell, my preference really seems to be for taller ambidextrous mice, thats why I like the 11 the best.

Hump/slope-wise, the two mice are completely different in shape. 11 has a hump that fills your palm, EC has a hump that fills your knuckles. They are a pair of mice made for a 20CM hand but the way each achieves that goal is very different.

I can take some comparison photos of the ZA11 and EC1 if you need.


----------



## solz

Comming from a Steelseries Rival, i would like to try the ZA series but i dont know if i need to get the 11 or 12 version

~19CM Hands - Hybrid palm grip

Which one should i pick?


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> I have a ZA11, EC1, and Zowie AM.
> If you have used the Intellimouse Explorer or Deathadder or MX518 and you liked it, get the EC1.
> If you have used the Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical and liked it, get the ZA11 (if you want taller mouse) or FK1+ (if you want wider mouse) or FK1, might be narrow for you though. I haven't tried FK but it should be similar to my AM which I find too flat and too narrow.
> EC1 is big for me but I have smaller hands, 17.5 CM. You could try an EC2A. I haven't tried one but I want to. TBH both the 11 and EC1 are big for me but I have been doing well in games with the ZA11 anyway. A lot of people seem to like the EC2 even some of those with larger hands.
> 
> Out of the three Zowie mice I have, I like the 11 the best. I tried a 13 and it was way too small for how I hold the mouse. Too short, too narrow, too low. I haven't tried a ZA12, EC2, or FK1/1+ so I can't really weigh in too much on those. I thought the EC1 was comfortable but it is so much less agile for me. I think I'd need massive hands to really do well with the EC1. Also I really love all the ZA11's buttons, nice and crisp, probably because of the shell construction. The EC have terrible buttons especially the two side buttons. I hate the ZA wheel, the EC have better wheels. Also the 11 has a little lip near the front on each side which I love because I can lift the mouse easy. From what I can tell, my preference really seems to be for taller ambidextrous mice, thats why I like the 11 the best.
> 
> Hump/slope-wise, the two mice are completely different in shape. 11 has a hump that fills your palm, EC has a hump that fills your knuckles. They are a pair of mice made for a 20CM hand but the way each achieves that goal is very different.
> 
> I can take some comparison photos of the ZA11 and EC1 if you need.


Thanks for the offerbut that won't be necessary, I've already ordered the ZA11







Read pretty similar experiences to yours now and from what I gather from those and images, the hump of the EC will *probably* be too much placed forward, which is why the ZA should fit me much more. I've compared multiple mice, also older ones, and I notice I have a much more stressed/cramped grip on e.g. the DA:E due to the shell being too low aka not enough hump and/or placed too mch forward. Also, the reportedly better buttons made the descision easy. I *loathe* heavy/stiff clicks








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Comming from a Steelseries Rival, i would like to try the ZA series but i dont know if i need to get the 11 or 12 version
> 
> ~19CM Hands - Hybrid palm grip
> 
> Which one should i pick?


Can answer that when mine arrives (palm gripper 19,5cm also have a Rival 300 - which I find just slightly too big butted to comfortably palm), could be a week or so though


----------



## Chirsu

I'm sorry if the question is common and stupid, but:
Which size would fit me best?
My hand is 18.5x9.6
I'm currently using EC2-A, it's good, but I want to try hump more towards the back.
I've also previously used razer abyssus, which, judging from images, seems to have similiar hump. I liked the shape of the hump, but the mouse was too short for me.
So I'm not sure what to try: ZA11 or ZA12.
Maybe anybody can say how will width between fingers feel compared to EC2-A?


----------



## Klopfer

ZA11 feels BIG , so I would say try ZA12 ...


----------



## Crisis187

With your hand size I would say either one would work fine for you. It really just depends if you like a smaller mouse or a bigger mouse. My hand size is 18 x 9.8 really about 10. The 12 fit me perfectly...it was so comfortable but for some reson it caused so much hand and wrist pain for me. So I had to send it back and my search for the pefect mouse continues lol. (It never ends)


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> ZA11 feels BIG , so I would say try ZA12 ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crisis187*
> 
> With your hand size I would say either one would work fine for you. It really just depends if you like a smaller mouse or a bigger mouse. My hand size is 18 x 9.8 really about 10. The 12 fit me perfectly...it was so comfortable but for some reson it caused so much hand and wrist pain for me. So I had to send it back and my search for the pefect mouse continues lol. (It never ends)


Ok, thanks, I will post after I try ZA12


----------



## popups

RIP my ZA13 shell.







I never really knew you.

I thought I would take the pre travel out of the ZA shell using some hot air like I did with my FK... didn't work out like it did for my FK. Not sure if I was too inpatient by heating it too much too fast, the plastic is thinner than my FK or this type of plastic is different than my other mice. I can find out later by heating it again with less heat to see if it melts as easy as a water bottle.


----------



## pindle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> Can answer that when mine arrives (palm gripper 19,5cm also have a Rival 300 - which I find just slightly too big butted to comfortably palm), could be a week or so though


Had mine for a couple of days but got cramps with it, it's just too small. Guess it's my grip or the fact that I'm used to ergo mice so much, the hump felt great, but the mouse just didn't fill my hand good enough, it forced me to more of a claw grip (this would've been even worse with smaller models), which gave me cramps. YMMV I'm expecting though but coming from a Rival this mouse feels TINY, even the ZA11.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> RIP my ZA13 shell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never really knew you.
> 
> I thought I would take the pre travel out of the ZA shell using some hot air like I did with my FK... didn't work out like it did for my FK. Not sure if I was too inpatient by heating it too much too fast, the plastic is thinner than my FK or this type of plastic is different than my other mice. I can find out later by heating it again with less heat to see if it melts as easy as a water bottle.


PETA hates you!
What did you use to heat it with?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pindle*
> 
> PETA hates you!
> What did you use to heat it with?


Just a hot air blower.

I put it at too high heat and too much air. I was trying to hurry stuff up. It worked fine with my FK, but my FK has a bunch of holes in the mid shell for the air to pass through. I didn't get a chance to lighten my ZA by drilling holes prior to trying to get rid of the extra travel. So I didn't check how thick the button piece is and I didn't heat it in the same way. I held my FK's mid and top shell in my hand while I was pressing the buttons, then letting it cool down before releasing the buttons.


----------



## pindle

So the shell is warped now? Or did it break? Warping should be fixable if it's not too much and u'r careful.


----------



## Chirsu

I've been asking a bunch of questions about this mouse, but I'm still in doubt regarding the right size.
Could somebody please compare if ZA12 is similar to sensei raw?
From the dimensions it looks like they should be pretty similar, but I am curious if ZA12 feels a little smaller or a little bigger compared to sensei.


----------



## syrell

for sensei dimension u should try nixeus revel or zowie fk model


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> for sensei dimension u should try nixeus revel or zowie fk model


As far as I know nixeus is slightly lower than sensei, I don't like the dm1. And for the fk - it's a fingertip mouse right?
Actually I know that the hump is different to sensei, but everything else seems similar, so what I was asking - is ZA12 smaller between the fingers or bigger? And same about length?


----------



## t3ram

Are the sidebuttons on both sides for forward and backward?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t3ram*
> 
> Are the sidebuttons on both sides for forward and backward?


yup, and only one side is working depending on how you plug it in


----------



## Twiffle

Tried to do some googling to see if I'd find comparison between FK2 and ZA12 in terms of size and width with no luck. Anyone who has both of them and could take pictures? Zowie's website claims that both FK2 and ZA12 are identical in width and length.. but I think that's a mistake on their part.


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Tried to do some googling to see if I'd find comparison between FK2 and ZA12 in terms of size and width with no luck. Anyone who has both of them and could take pictures? Zowie's website claims that both FK2 and ZA12 are identical in width and length.. but I think that's a mistake on their part.



Should be same length and width but the height is different, and the height makes a big difference on the perceived size in hand.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> 
> Should be same length and width but the height is different, and the height makes a big difference on the perceived size in hand.


Hmmh that seems kinda odd then. To me it feels like my ZA13 is wider than my FK2 to be honest. or perhaps it just curves a bit differently and makes it seem like it's wider.


----------



## Timecard

All I can say is that za13 is nothing like sensei/xai if that is what you are looking for.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Timecard*
> 
> All I can say is that za13 is nothing like sensei/xai if that is what you are looking for.


Nope. Just looking at same length, but a bit wider. Well I could always use Revel too, but at times it feels a bit too wide for me. ZA13 feels nice, but I wish it was longer.. thats why I was kinda curious about ZA12's width.


----------



## detto87

Why same length? FK1 would be perfect if you're looking for a little wider FK2.


----------



## Twiffle

Anyone mind taking side by side pictures of Nixeus revel and ZA12 by any chance? ZA12 should be a bit narrower, right? Kinda been trying to find a cheap used ZA12 for a while now but they seem to be very hard to find. Don't feel like paying 70€ for new one :/


----------



## Randallel

Does anyone have a problem with the LOD? I feel like it's not low enough for me. When I raise my mouse and lift it, it moves way too much. Maybe it's the way I hold my mouse? I only raise the front part to swipe.


----------



## Venomus

Is it possible to fingertip ZA13? Im currently using G403 wireless but my friend is selling ZA13 for a cheap price since he won't use it. My hand size is 19cm from middle finger to wrist and 10 cm from thumb. I can fingertip G403 just fine.


----------



## nodicaL

So I've been using the ZA12 since I sent my Lancehead back.

I bought both ZA11 & 12 and greatly prefer the ZA12.
My hand size is (20.5 x 10.5) and the ZA11 should have been the best choice but I found that it was too wide for me.

My favourite mouse so far is the DM1 Pro S, and I feel the ZA12 is the best shape I've used so far.

I play DPS in OW and use a lot of Tracer.
The ZA11 hinders my ability for quick successive 180s. It's too big for nimble aiming and a lot of quick flicks.

I've noticed that I need a mouse to give me full contact with my four knuckles, and the part that I grip should be narrow for easy pick up aiming.

The scroll wheel just sucks. It takes an age to scroll through pages. The buttons are similar quality to Scream One, but an upgrade from DM1 Pro S. DM1 has a bit of travel for M1&2 and the side buttons are bad.

What's weird is that my copy of ZA12 has seemingly perfect SRAV. I always find a mouses' true DPI before using it so I always have the correct sensitivity in all games.

This is the only mouse I've ever used that has rock solid cm/360 no matter how fast or slow I move the mouse while finding my cm/360.

Every other mouse I've used has some kind of variance.

Just my thoughts on the ZA11 & 12.


----------



## Xanatos

Is the ZA line discontinued, or is there a new revision upcoming? I'm not seeing anything sold by Amazon.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venomus*
> 
> Is it possible to fingertip ZA13? Im currently using G403 wireless but my friend is selling ZA13 for a cheap price since he won't use it. My hand size is 19cm from middle finger to wrist and 10 cm from thumb. I can fingertip G403 just fine.


Yes, I just swapped my FK2 to ZA13 with your handsize. It's easier to both fingertip grip, and hybrid grip, so I don't really see the reason for FK2's existence really. I'm much more in control of my aim and it's much more comfortable.

For palming it's too small and ZA12 or ZA11 would be better.


----------



## queerquirks

hows the scroll wheel on the za13? mine requires more strength to click down then what I am expecting, like i really got to push it down.


----------



## syrell

I hate the scrollwheel but, many like it


----------



## queerquirks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syrell*
> 
> I hate the scrollwheel but, many like it


coming from a roccat kpm but ZA scroll wheels are the best among zowie models, EC series felt really brittle but not as tight and hard to press down as my za13. it's fine in game but general web browsing where I use the middle click for closing tabs are just a headache on this mice


----------



## ncck

2 questions

1) Anyone ever had an issue of the mouse stopping tracking when being placed down on a mousepad but working fine in all other scenarios

2) Is it actually possible for benQ/zowie to put a 3360 inside the shell of say a za12 or would the internals be different to the point where the shell HAD to be modified? (which would suck)


----------



## Shwiqo6434

..


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *przem33k*
> 
> Bottom shell would definitely require modding due to a different lens shape.


In terms of the actual dimensions would anything HAVE to be changed or can they leave the shell exactly as is - understanding that the sensor opening/position may have to move but otherwise?


----------



## Shwiqo6434

..


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

ReZ'ing the thread a bit.

Just hit a Fry's Electronics out here in Cali. Full Zowie Line up out from pads to every mouse they are offering currently(excluding the glossy white versions).

I put my hand on that Za12......man oh man. I just might...no i'm sure i am going to pick one up extremely extremely soon to avidly test out. I had the Za11 for a bit and enjoyed that mouse a great deal, putting my hand on that one was solid too. Something about that Za12 though that had me test swiping & clicking for a good 5-10 minutes.


----------



## Randallel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> ReZ'ing the thread a bit.
> 
> Just hit a Fry's Electronics out here in Cali. Full Zowie Line up out from pads to every mouse they are offering currently(excluding the glossy white versions).
> 
> I put my hand on that Za12......man oh man. I just might...no i'm sure i am going to pick one up extremely extremely soon to avidly test out. I had the Za11 for a bit and enjoyed that mouse a great deal, putting my hand on that one was solid too. Something about that Za12 though that had me test swiping & clicking for a good 5-10 minutes.


Lmao. I literally was at a Fry's in California tonight trying out their Zowie mice. I picked up a ZA12







.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Randallel*
> 
> Lmao. I literally was at a Fry's in California tonight trying out their Zowie mice. I picked up a ZA12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


How coincidental, none were left when i asked. Lol thanks a lot for that.

Give me some thoughts on how you feel about the mouse?


----------



## the1onewolf

You could just wait for the white special edition one


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> You could just wait for the white special edition one


I live 15 away from Rexflo. I can pick up the special edition anytime. Which is planned.


----------



## Randallel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> How coincidental, none were left when i asked. Lol thanks a lot for that.
> 
> Give me some thoughts on how you feel about the mouse?


Personally, I like it a lot. I like mice that feel up my palm. I don't mind the 3310, because I don't notice a difference. I actually enjoy Huano switches. I would buy the special edition, but I feel like Zowie's going to release the 3360 soon.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Randallel*
> 
> Personally, I like it a lot. I like mice that feel up my palm. I don't mind the 3310, because I don't notice a difference. I actually enjoy Huano switches. I would buy the special edition, but I feel like Zowie's going to release the 3360 soon.


But...you bought the black Za12?? Lol

It fills up less of my palm than the Za11. But it does still feel great. No idea why. Even for bigger hands it looks like it will be a great pickup.


----------



## Randallel

Got a gift card


----------



## the1onewolf

I don't see many CS pro's using the ZA11 but I see many FK1 (comparable mouse in the FK series).
Preference aside I kind of wonder why that is.

The few ZA's I do see used are usually the ZA12 or 13.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> I don't see many CS pro's using the ZA11 but I see many FK1 (comparable mouse in the FK series).
> Preference aside I kind of wonder why that is.
> 
> The few ZA's I do see used are usually the ZA12 or 13.


Preference.


----------



## Randallel

ZA11's size is comparable to the FK1+.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Randallel*
> 
> ZA11's size is comparable to the FK1+.


No it isn't.
FK1+ is much larger.


----------



## Randallel

It's about the same size.

Also the hump on the ZA11 makes the mouse feel bigger.


----------



## PedMar

White ZA and FK’s white are available on rexflo.net just ordered my white za12 cause Im not liking the rival 310 so far. Has an ass like an ebony


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PedMar*
> 
> White ZA and FK's white are available on rexflo.net just ordered my white za12 cause Im not liking the rival 310 so far. Has an ass like an ebony


Yup,On my way to pick my order up from Rexflo now.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Randallel*
> 
> It's about the same size.
> 
> Also the hump on the ZA11 makes the mouse feel bigger.


I know it's only a few mm, but have both and FK1+ feels much larger.


----------



## nodicaL

I was going to purchase a White ZA12 myself, but noticed that I had problems with tracking ADAD spam in OW.
Don't know if it's the 3310 vs 3360 or what. It's too bad because I've been waiting for the Glossy White ZA12 for a long time now.

How long do we have to wait for a 3360 Zowie?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nodicaL*
> 
> I was going to purchase a White ZA12 myself, but noticed that I had problems with tracking ADAD spam in OW.
> Don't know if it's the 3310 vs 3360 or what. It's too bad because I've been waiting for the Glossy White ZA12 for a long time now.
> 
> How long do we have to wait for a 3360 Zowie?


Until the next gen sensor is out.
3 years?








I do not expect any big changes to their lineup since they are known to be slow af.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nodicaL*
> 
> How long do we have to wait for a 3360 Zowie?


Holidays might the best bet if they are going to do it this year. Doubt it.


----------



## sjalen

Anyone know when the white versions are coming out in Europe?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

A fire in So-cal had freeways backed up like a constipated patient yesterday. So i could not get to Rexflo cause of it. However i'm heading to pick my white Za12 up soon since the freeeways are dead, if wanted i can post pics next to the white ec1-a, black ec2-a, fk1, dm1pro s & g303.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

On deck boyz n gals.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yup,On my way to pick my order up from Rexflo now.


Did you email rexflo to request in-person pickup?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dakuzo*
> 
> Did you email rexflo to request in-person pickup?


Yes i did. They refunded shipping when i picked up too.


----------



## frunction

3310 IN 2017


----------



## Lolcarrots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> 3310 IN 2017


complaining about a 3310 that isn't messed up in any major way in current year


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> On deck boyz n gals.


Well, how is it? I get mine Friday. I always wanted to try the ZA series (Tried EC and FK series already), so I figure grab a white one as they're the same price.


----------



## b0z0

My hands sweat to much while gaming







. Looks awesome.


----------



## Zhuni

Thinking about picking up a gloss za. My hands are 22cm. But I'm leaning towards the za12. I've got so use to the revel size recently. I'm guessing this is closest?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Well, how is it? I get mine Friday. I always wanted to try the ZA series (Tried EC and FK series already), so I figure grab a white one as they're the same price.


Personally love it, the clicks are not heavy. They are lighter than the black/red version. Only exception is the copy i tried in Fry's electronics those clicks i'm sure have been clicked thousands upon thousands of times. So they were broken in. I do not think the clicks are lighter than the gloss ec series but these are right on par, which is good since some feel the za and fk clicks are too heavy.

The coating is solid, i prefer the gloss to the normal coating. Not even close to me. I will do a bigger write up on it in a bit & post some pics, but i will say i never thought i'd like the mouse this much.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> Thinking about picking up a gloss za. My hands are 22cm. But I'm leaning towards the za12. I've got so use to the revel size recently. I'm guessing this is closest?


I have a 21cm hand you should be fine, i will say that if i never got a hands on prior i would not have grabbed a za12. That helped me decide. I was shocked it felt so good in hand.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Personally love it, the clicks are not heavy. They are lighter than the black/red version. Only exception is the copy i tried in Fry's electronics those clicks i'm sure have been clicked thousands upon thousands of times. So they were broken in. I do not think the clicks are lighter than the gloss ec series but these are right on par, which is good since some feel the za and fk clicks are too heavy.
> 
> The coating is solid, i prefer the gloss to the normal coating. Not even close to me. I will do a bigger write up on it in a bit & post some pics, but i will say i never thought i'd like the mouse this much.
> I have a 21cm hand you should be fine, i will say that if i never got a hands on prior i would not have grabbed a za12. That helped me decide. I was shocked it felt so good in hand.


I think that's how the ZA series has always been? I've read before they have the lightest clicks of the entire Zowie lineup. Either way, I hope the shape fits me, as I hated the FK2, but loved the FK1 despite it not giving as much control as a smaller mouse would. I also hope the coating doesn't wear down fast, as I hate how Zowie mice get shiny spots after a few weeks of use.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I think that's how the ZA series has always been? I've read before they have the lightest clicks of the entire Zowie lineup. Either way, I hope the shape fits me, as I hated the FK2, but loved the FK1 despite it not giving as much control as a smaller mouse would. I also hope the coating doesn't wear down fast, as I hate how Zowie mice get shiny spots after a few weeks of use.


Can vary, my za11 had a firmer click compared to this za12. Either way the clicks are fine by me. I can go either route & be just solid.

Edit: i too hope the coating doesn't go fast. Guess time will tell.


----------



## Nivity

I guess I am one of the few that actually thought the normal coating was ok








Tried the glossy EC2a and remembered that glossy is horrible for me, such a sticky nasty feeling


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I guess I am one of the few that actually thought the normal coating was ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried the glossy EC2a and remembered that glossy is horrible for me, such a sticky nasty feeling


Okay in the sense that i's not bad for gripping. But keeping your mouse looking new was impossible. I just got a new red logo FK1 a month ago and used it maybe 4-5 times and I can already see the shiny spots forming where I rest my fingers and part of my palm. It reminds me the cheap ABS keycaps on mechanical keyboards. After a few weeks of use, the keycaps develop shine. The Zowie shine isn't as bad, but it's still really noticeable, especially in direct sunlight.

Meanwhile my white G102 I've used more than my FK1 still looks brand new, like I just took it out of the box.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Pics ahead















I do not have my WMO anymore sadly or i would have had those side by sides as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I guess I am one of the few that actually thought the normal coating was ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried the glossy EC2a and remembered that glossy is horrible for me, such a sticky nasty feeling


I like both types. I believe i'll always prefer glossy top and rubber sides like the Dm1 pro s.


----------



## Zhuni

I've had a couple of gloss Zowie mice. The coating is extremely durable. Even with regular wipe downs with alcohol wipes. Although probably best to avoid such behaviour


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> I've had a couple of gloss Zowie mice. The coating is extremely durable. Even with regular wipe downs with alcohol wipes. Although probably best to avoid such behaviour


Same here haha. Fastest way to clean and disinfect.


----------



## Zhuni

Yeah it's never given me issues! Mouse is basically like new after ?


----------



## Zhuni

Are these up in the EU yet?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Same here haha. Fastest way to clean and disinfect.


Which is rather dumb. You don't need to disinfect your mouse. Warm water and a dab of dish soap on a microfiber cloth is more that enough to clean it and lift the dead skin cells. You don't need to risk the coating to "disinfect" your mouse, unless you're sharing it with a sick person.


----------



## PedMar

Which ZA is this?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Pics ahead
> 
> I do not have my WMO anymore sadly or i would have had those side by sides as well.
> I like both types. I believe i'll always prefer glossy top and rubber sides like the Dm1 pro s.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PedMar*
> 
> Which ZA is this?


12


----------



## PedMar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> 12


Looks amazing. I had the revel but felt it was too wide for me. How is this compared since you have the dm pro?

I have 17cms hand but my grip has alwas been best for big mice. I loved the g502 and so far the rival 310 feels somewhat nice except for the big butt.

However anything above 40mm height is terrible for me like the g403. I hated the g pro and g303 by the way


----------



## gene-z

Just got my white ZA12 and it's so good.

+ Coating is great. It feels like the mouse has invisible gun tape or something. My hands sticks like glue to this coating, so my hands don't slip around.
+ Side buttons are super crispy compared to my red logo FK1. A lot less wobble and more click feedback. It just feels a lot better in general.
+ Scroll click takes quite a bit less force than my FK1, feels better to me.
+ The clicks feel a tiny bit lighter than my FK1.
+ The shape is so good, which is surprising. I hated the FK2 because of how narrow it was and the ZA12 is the same width. The hump fills out my hand and makes the narrow width a lot less noticeable. I can use pretty much all grip types on this mouse comfortably. If I palm the entire mouse, it feels like it was perfectly made for my hand. (Hands are 8inches vertical, and about 3.5inches horizontal)
+ Left and right click both feel like the same force to actuate.
+ It's so dam sexy. Easily the best looking mouse I've ever seen. The red logo actually looks really good, as opposed to how meh it looked on the black products.The red looked more like a washed out red wine color on the black models, but it really pops on the white shell. I love Zowie minimalist approach and design, it's like gaming gear for adults.

- M5 feels a tiny bit heavier to click than M4, not a huge difference or something that would bother me, but it's there.
- Same awful scroll wheel. I preferred the scroll wheel of my old yellow FK1. I wonder if I can swap it into my ZA12?


----------



## rendyG

Any chance they updated the firmware in the new models (white) to reduce the y-axis lag?


----------



## nodicaL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rendyG*
> 
> Any chance they updated the firmware in the new models (white) to reduce the y-axis lag?


I highly doubt it.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rendyG*
> 
> Any chance they updated the firmware in the new models (white) to reduce the y-axis lag?


Were those tests ever confirmed? I remember when it was posted here, not many people took the testing method seriously.


----------



## D-Va

Wow, the white ZA looks really nice. I just want a white EC2-A with a black scroll wheel and 3360 sensor. Can you hear me, Zowie? PLEASE, why are you so slow?


----------



## Ultraform

is that a za12 on the picture you compare to Dm pro :O ?

edit : saw that you allready answerd :/


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultraform*
> 
> is that a za12 on the picture you compare to Dm pro :O ?
> 
> edit : saw that you allready answerd :/


I assume that was directed towards me? Lol


----------



## Ultraform

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I assume that was directed towards me? Lol


yes it was :/


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultraform*
> 
> yes it was :/


lol ok gotcha.


----------



## Leopardi

Does the ZA12 have less stiff clicks than the ZA13? I know ZA11 has.


----------



## plyr

I like bigger mice, but I think the ZA11 forces my claw grip to the middle of the mouse, because the mouse is too long, my ring finger wont actually go under the right front bump.

I wonder if the ZA12 would be a better fit.


----------



## sandywind

I would like to replace my FK2, which is too small for my 18.7x10.5cm hand, with a ZA or a larger FK. What would be the right correspondence between FKs and ZAs, in terms of perceived size, ZA12/FK1 and ZA11/FK1+? Is the ZA12 similar to the old Razer Copperhead, or what is the ZA model which is most similar to it?

My hand is rather wide with respect to its length, I find most mice to be too narrow. However large mice like the EC1-A are long. Among large mice, the Deathadder is fine, but is also quite heavy. Another mouse I like is EC2-A, maybe just somewhat small, and a third one is the Mionix Avior. As I like the click feel of my FK2, I'm wondering if another Zowie could be a good compromise.


----------



## Sathiroth

sandywind said:


> I would like to replace my FK2, which is too small for my 18.7x10.5cm hand, with a ZA or a larger FK. What would be the right correspondence between FKs and ZAs, in terms of perceived size, ZA12/FK1 and ZA11/FK1+? Is the ZA12 similar to the old Razer Copperhead, or what is the ZA model which is most similar to it?
> 
> My hand is rather wide with respect to its length, I find most mice to be too narrow. However large mice like the EC1-A are long. Among large mice, the Deathadder is fine, but is also quite heavy. Another mouse I like is EC2-A, maybe just somewhat small, and a third one is the Mionix Avior. As I like the click feel of my FK2, I'm wondering if another Zowie could be a good compromise.


I would be curious to know this too?


----------



## Twiffle

sandywind said:


> I would like to replace my FK2, which is too small for my 18.7x10.5cm hand, with a ZA or a larger FK. What would be the right correspondence between FKs and ZAs, in terms of perceived size, ZA12/FK1 and ZA11/FK1+? Is the ZA12 similar to the old Razer Copperhead, or what is the ZA model which is most similar to it?
> 
> My hand is rather wide with respect to its length, I find most mice to be too narrow. However large mice like the EC1-A are long. Among large mice, the Deathadder is fine, but is also quite heavy. Another mouse I like is EC2-A, maybe just somewhat small, and a third one is the Mionix Avior. As I like the click feel of my FK2, I'm wondering if another Zowie could be a good compromise.


 18/9 cm hands here. I would say from ZA series probably ZA12 or ZA11. However if you didn't like how long EC1-A is then you most likely won't like ZA11. Currently using ZA12 as my daily driver. From FK series length wise FK1 and FK1+ are same as EC1-A, but also a bit wider than FK2.

So a larger FK would be most likely FK1+ . If you did prefer the length of FK2... I would also look into Nixeus Revel although it's not one you asked for. From ZA's I'd start probably from 12, cause 13 is going to be too narrow for 10cm+ wide hands


----------



## Leopardi

sandywind said:


> I would like to replace my FK2, which is too small for my 18.7x10.5cm hand, with a ZA or a larger FK. What would be the right correspondence between FKs and ZAs, in terms of perceived size, ZA12/FK1 and ZA11/FK1+? Is the ZA12 similar to the old Razer Copperhead, or what is the ZA model which is most similar to it?
> 
> My hand is rather wide with respect to its length, I find most mice to be too narrow. However large mice like the EC1-A are long. Among large mice, the Deathadder is fine, but is also quite heavy. Another mouse I like is EC2-A, maybe just somewhat small, and a third one is the Mionix Avior. As I like the click feel of my FK2, I'm wondering if another Zowie could be a good compromise.


That's about my handsize, and I will say ZA11 will be absolutely too huge for your hand, unless you plan to do full palm grip. After that I went to the too small FK2, and immediately exchanged it to a ZA13. The ZA13 didn't feel too small except for the narrowness. ZA12 is on the border of being too high with the hump, and still feels a bit narrow.

I'm thinking that FK1 would be good, as it's almost as high as the ZA13, but much wider, even wider than the ZA12.


----------



## StillBlaze

Does anyone remember the guy who made a 3d printed tray for his za13 so he could just place his 3366 sensor inside? it might have been from a g303.

ZA13 is my love but every time I buy another mouse to test it's painfully obvious that the 3366 to me is much better.


----------



## WindInSummer

I totally get what lots of people say about ZA11 regarding comfort but a lack of control, but it may heavily depend on what game you play.

It has been a revelatory experience as I came back to it, I had gotten a few Zowies to finally try that were heavily discounted and have used them on and off for a period of a month or so. 

Had already used it (always keep two mice plugged in, and have for the longest time now) when I played a bit of Apex, and I did as well or better with it than the G403 which has been one of my main mice.

And I remember seeing a lot of Overwatch avatars. And it makes a lot of sense. Because the way I have grown to use mice and also what I mainly play, which is OW, and it has changed for sure, I was actually hindered by it. Then now, also being in better shape in general, I tried CS:GO. And it just works so well. And the mouse is so damn comfortable. And I am doing better than ever in Apex, lots of fun all around.


----------



## Aymanb

After 3 years of buying different mice, trying out different ones, even going big for the wireless editions. I just recently bought back my beloved ZA13, but the white glossy edition this time. Absolutely fantastic, felt right at home and never aimed better before. This shape is absolutely made for my hand and grip.

Now I just wish I can go back in time and get another G303- aswell


----------



## Leopardi

Aymanb said:


> After 3 years of buying different mice, trying out different ones, even going big for the wireless editions. I just recently bought back my beloved ZA13, but the white glossy edition this time. Absolutely fantastic, felt right at home and never aimed better before. This shape is absolutely made for my hand and grip.
> 
> Now I just wish I can go back in time and get another G303- aswell


ZA13 is definitely the greatest shape along G100s that I have tried. Too bad the glossy edition is too slippery, and the black edition has too stiff click.


----------



## t3ram

Leopardi said:


> Too bad the glossy edition is too slippery


Can't you sand down the glossy one with a sponge like many people did on their divina ? Then you would have the best of both worlds


----------



## Aymanb

Leopardi said:


> ZA13 is definitely the greatest shape along G100s that I have tried. Too bad the glossy edition is too slippery, and the black edition has too stiff click.


Honestly I grip the glossy one perfectly. I guess it depends on hand sweat and stuff.


----------



## Leopardi

Aymanb said:


> Honestly I grip the glossy one perfectly. I guess it depends on hand sweat and stuff.


Yeah it's super grippy until like 15-30mins into the session, then it's a bar of soap. Maybe they'll release the 3360 ZA13 with lighter buttons.


----------

