# Hybrid CPU Air / Water block



## Magi8800

Finally got around to trying my hand at my own water block.

Wanted to see how effective it would be to just run some copper tubing through an existing HS.



More pictures to follow.

Any suggestions on how to bring two 1/4 inch tubes together into 1 x 3/8 besides a series of adapters and t's?


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## Magi8800

This is my first attempt so thats why its not going through the dead center. Wasn't sure how well it would drill out, and I didn't want to wreck the mating surface.









Will post temps as soon as I can, just need some more TIM. It's a half hour drive to get some.


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## ClaytonGFinley

I imagine that It would basically act like a small radiator, just not as well. I doubt its going to be as good or better than a normal waterblock, but for a cheap mod, it seems like a good deal.


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## axipher

- file the edges of the copper pipe smooth
- get some tube one size too small, heat it and stretch it over
- zip-tie it on
- run some chilled water through them, not too cold though that it will cause other problems


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## Magi8800

Well not better then a normal waterblock.
Theres about an Inch of distance from the mating surface to the tubes. But it will go from those tubes over to the Pump/Rad setup.

Already have a good Water Block, just wnted to see how effective this would actually be. Im going to try it on a Athlon 2 x2 2.8ghz hopefuly that will heat up enough to show a difference W and W/O water.

If no leaks I will try it on my 6100 FX. Or my friends Phenom x3.


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## rubicsphere

You've got my attention


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## BritishBob




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## wireeater

Innovation is where it starts man, that's awesome. Sub'd for results.


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## superericla

Looks interesting to say the least. I wonder if you could do the same thing in reverse by adding air cooling capability to a water cooling block.


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## Magi8800

I imagine that you could, but I wonder if the water would act as a bit of an insulator when its not moving.
Should just be able to use TIM and something to hold it down. Maybe a NB cooler.

I've been thinking of one done like this for a long time and searched google alot, but all I could find was people using blocks of copper and a lathe which I dont have.

Also i thought it would be easier to use a block with an existing retention system to make things easier at least for the first attempt.

An 80$ drill press was more in line with my budget. Home depot had Ryobi Benchtop one on sale.


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## superericla

I'm thinking you could make a waterblock that is fully copper and has an inlet on one side and an outlet on the other and stack an air cooler on that somehow, using thermal paste for both CPU contact and waterblock - air cooler contact. Could be interesting.


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## Magi8800

Tha could probably work well, would be best if the material of the bottom block was continuous through to the top. That would provide and unimpeeded path for heat transfer.

I was thinking of using a heatpipe style one and interfacing the tubing with the heatpipe tubing for a kind of heat exchanger style setup.
That would provide an equal transfer to both the air rad or water tubes.

I think I could solder them to each other providing a better contact.

Gonna have to be carefull last time I applied direct heat to a Heatpipe it poped the other end and steam came out.


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## Disturbed117

Interesting.


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## ginger_nuts

It looks good







,but the surface area of contact is not very much, running the copper pipe along either side of the X on the cooler would result in better efficiency/temps.

That is reason behind the micro cutting and pattern design inside the water blocks, greater surface area = better heat exchange.

I think you are onto something here









Trying to solder the heatpipe to copper pipe is near impossible, when you heat up the heatpipe, that is enclosed, the pressure will increase massively inside.

Not saying it is not doable, just very very difficult.


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## vedaire

if you can what you should do is take a hmm what they call them things where the heatpipes actually touch the ihs but anyways you could take the heat sink and cut channels in the base and actually solder them in then you'd have a nice hybrid where you could use air or what cooling would be a little more efficient.


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## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magi8800*
> 
> Tha could probably work well, would be best if the material of the bottom block was continuous through to the top. That would provide and unimpeeded path for heat transfer.
> I was thinking of using a heatpipe style one and interfacing the tubing with the heatpipe tubing for a kind of heat exchanger style setup.
> That would provide an equal transfer to both the air rad or water tubes.
> I think I could solder them to each other providing a better contact.
> Gonna have to be carefull last time I applied direct heat to a Heatpipe it poped the other end and steam came out.


Well, you wouldn't be able to make the waterblock continuous because of the milling method so the bottom part of the block that the water flows though would have to be soldered or welded to the top part. It could still work really well.


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## Magi8800

Yeah th eone that got me interested at first was one a guy made with 4 1/4 tubes formed into a block themselves.

Heres a link. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261527-31-personal-mods-water-cooling-project


This ones not mine, but thats ultimately probably the best cheap design Ive seen. I know channels in the block are better. But simplicity is nice as well. And if heatpipe coolers work then so should this.

Need to make some sort of a die I can use to squish them.


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## Magi8800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> Well, you wouldn't be able to make the waterblock continuous because of the milling method so the bottom part of the block that the water flows though would have to be soldered or welded to the top part. It could still work really well.


Well thats what I mean as soon as you do that it would be broken up by the top plate. If you could mill it out sideways you may be able to do it. May still work fine the other way just not sure how the cushion of unmoving water would affect the thermal transfer rate.


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## HugeTorque

http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm


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## Wiffinberg

Awesome idea!









Ima keep an eye on this thread


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## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magi8800*
> 
> Well thats what I mean as soon as you do that it would be broken up by the top plate. If you could mill it out sideways you may be able to do it. May still work fine the other way just not sure how the cushion of *unmoving water* would affect the thermal transfer rate.


What unmoving water? I'm talking about having it hooked up to a watercooling system with water flowing through it.


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## Magi8800

Oh sorry I thought you were talking about adding a cooler to the top of the waterblock.


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## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magi8800*
> 
> Oh sorry I thought you were talking about adding a cooler to the top of the waterblock.


I was but I was talking about doing that as additional cooling, not main cooling. I was thinking you could make a custom waterblock that works as a regular waterblock but uses air cooling in addition to water for more cooling potential.


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## Magi8800

If you had water running through I suppose it would help as well.

Im surprisd there hasnt been other people trying this.

I just need to get some paste. Used it all doping GFX cards. Will get some ASAP.

Thanks for all the interest and suggestions guys.


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## Magi8800

Maybe using 2 Heatpipes to an air cooler and 2 liquid tubes and squish them all together like that other Pic I posted.


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## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magi8800*
> 
> Maybe using 2 Heatpipes to an air cooler and 2 liquid tubes and squish them all together like that other Pic I posted.


That could actually work. You would use two of the pipes for the liquid cooling and two as heatpipes for the air cooling. It may be best to use solid copper rods for the air cooling though, I'm not sure on that.


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## superericla

OR you could possibly layer the copper, using all tubes touching the CPU for water and having a second layer soldered/welded to the first layer for the air cooling portion. I'm unsure which would provide better cooling. It might be more ideal to run the tubing through a main copper core to get a more flat surface against the CPU, which would improve cooling performance.


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## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superericla*
> 
> OR you could possibly layer the copper, using all tubes touching the CPU for water and having a second layer soldered/welded to the first layer for the air cooling portion. I'm unsure which would provide better cooling. It might be more ideal to run the tubing through a main copper core to get a more flat surface against the CPU, which would improve cooling performance.


Edit:
If you did this it would be best to create the main copper core with internal pins to provide more surface area for the water to run through, similar to a traditional waterblock. You would cut the water cooling tubes and solder/weld them to holes in the copper core so that water runs into the main core from the tube and out the other tube.

Sorry for the large number of posts. This thread just gave me a lot of ideas.


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## Magi8800

See I was thinking of just cutting the tubes at the top on one of these, and running liquid through it.



Is that sort of what you were thinking, oh great my jeyboard making É instead of question mark now lol

By the way those are great I had my athlon2 640 4x3.0ghz running at 17 celsius idle and 35 load. Almost the same as water.


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## Magi8800

The heat pipes are great they work under a vacuum wich lowers the boiling point of the liquid inside. This allows it to evaporate at like say 5 degrees and carry the heat to the cooling end. It speeds up the transfer alot as far as I have seen.


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## superericla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magi8800*
> 
> See I was thinking of just cutting the tubes at the top on one of these, and running liquid through it.
> 
> Is that sort of what you were thinking, oh great my jeyboard making É instead of question mark now lol
> By the way those are great I had my athlon2 640 4x3.0ghz running at 17 celsius idle and 35 load. Almost the same as water.


That's a much simpler way of doing what I was thinking actually.








I think the temps will be better that way. The air cooler part itself would basically act as a very efficient water cooling radiator.


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## Magi8800

Yeah and then any additional buildup would just go out with the water.

I got and OCZ one for cheap on clearance last year. Was like 17$. I gave it to my friend already though.


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## Nocturin

if you did something like that, there is a wick in the heatpipes, IIRC, I don't know if it's physicall attached, but the first few fins would need to be removed to give you a good mating surface for brazing or pressure fittings. Interesting, subbed!


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## Magi8800

Oh, theres a wick? I never actually opened one completely.

Im going to head down and get some heat paste tonight, so I should be able to post some temps by tommoro.

I keep trying to harvest heatpipes off of old coolers but they are usually too stuck or bent to crap by the time you remove them.


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## Drewmeister

Very interesting project Magi!









The wick inside the heat pipe should be a metal mesh or a sintered copper powder. The grooved walls of the heat pipe help increase the wicking action. The wick runs the full length of the pipe. There is a vapor chamber in the center of the pipe so you shouldn't have to remove the wick. You can try but I doubt you would be able to completely remove it.

On the heat pipe pictured above... it looks like you could push the fins down 1/4" or so to expose the ends, cut, ream and solder smaller diameter tubes inside. For example: If the heat pipes are 1/4" them maybe slip some 3/16" inside. This way you can heat the upper pipe with a small flame without damaging the fins when soldering.

You can see what the wick looks like here. http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2617


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## Magi8800

Could do that. That'll have to be the next experiment.

Just pickup up some MX4 thermal paste last night so I can test the first block now.


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## Magi8800

Alright, she's up and stressing. Not quite as effective as i'd hoped.

Stock AMD 6100 cooler on Athlon 2 x2 5400 2.8ghz

After 1 hour prime 95

core1 - 49 core2 - 53

New Cooler
54 57 dry
47 52 wet

Now the stock 6100 cooler is alot thinker and has a pure copper core. Its also my next victim. Im drilling through the center on the next one.


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## Magi8800




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## Disturbed117

Subbed.


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## Magi8800

The cpu will be completely surrounded in beer. It'll get so wasted!!!!


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## Magi8800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drewmeister*
> 
> Very interesting project Magi!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wick inside the heat pipe should be a metal mesh or a sintered copper powder. The grooved walls of the heat pipe help increase the wicking action. The wick runs the full length of the pipe. There is a vapor chamber in the center of the pipe so you shouldn't have to remove the wick. You can try but I doubt you would be able to completely remove it.
> On the heat pipe pictured above... it looks like you could push the fins down 1/4" or so to expose the ends, cut, ream and solder smaller diameter tubes inside. For example: If the heat pipes are 1/4" them maybe slip some 3/16" inside. This way you can heat the upper pipe with a small flame without damaging the fins when soldering.
> You can see what the wick looks like here. http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2617


Awesome cutaway and explanation of the inside of a heatpipe.


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## Magi8800

Alright Stage 2 complete and stressing. Already looks way more promising.


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## Magi8800

Already been running 15 mins and is only at 47. Very slow climb and seems to have peaked.


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## Magi8800

Yep fluctuating between 47 and 46 on one core and sitting at 41 on the other one. I might need to repaste it maybe its uneven.


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## thrasherht

very interersting results. I would hook it up to an H50 and see what it does. Just use the H50 block as a pump. clean out the fins on the H50 block to give it better flow.


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## Magi8800

Well I have a thermaltake pump. It seems to work well.

Damnit I think the powersupply died. Gotta find a new one. Wouldnt power up untill I unplugged the pump and now it wont boot. Oh well it lasted long enough for the test anyways. Cheap stock 270watt psu's lol


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## Drewmeister

The tubes you added through the core are helping remove more heat from the cpu. Now you need to improve the heat transfer from the tubes to the air. Not sure if you have enough room to add more tubes through the fins. You could mod a separate hs as a mini radiator and stack them. JB weld has fairly decent thermal conductivity and can be used as a sort of TIM between the tubes and HS. Use the 5 min type. Btw.. the drilling could have distorted the mounting surface.. check flatness with a single edge razor and lap if necessary. 220,400, 600 is fine.

You can try an old trick us phase builders use and that is to add more surface area via a de-superheater coil. You can make a cheap one out of the small copper tubing you have there and mount it above the fan. You can rig a fan on top of the coils for more airflow if needed. The desup pictured is 1/4" tubing and I used a 1 3/8" pipe to wrap it. You could also make larger horizontal loops.. just throwing ideas out there for you.

Looking good!


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## derickwm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magi8800*


MOAR PIPES


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## Liighthead

well done really









ive always wanted to get a old tower heatsink i have here and pretty much bolt a waterblock to the bottom.. this.. this is very nice idea subbing in







to see where this goes


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## trulsrohk

I have often wondered about a tower type cooler with the copper pipes being hollow and half filled with water or something for vapor action...this looks interesting, keep up the tests


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## rawfuls

Give this a looksee:

Specifically, post #105.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1203636/amd-ati-gpu-mod-club-aka-the-red-mod/100#post_16682354

He explains it here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1203636/amd-ati-gpu-mod-club-aka-the-red-mod/100#post_16687798


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## axipher

Looking great to far. I have a feeling it might be beneficial to run two loops through the pipes to avoid running heated water back through the heatsink too many times, not sure how much of a difference it would make though.


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## Onions

this is mad cool







subd


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## thrasherht

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axipher*
> 
> Looking great to far. I have a feeling it might be beneficial to run two loops through the pipes to avoid running heated water back through the heatsink too many times, not sure how much of a difference it would make though.


I think since the pipes are so unrestricted they don't pick up enough heat to make it matter that much. Because each pass the water will pick up a little more heat, and water can hold a lot of heat.


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## Magi8800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrasherht*
> 
> I think since the pipes are so unrestricted they don't pick up enough heat to make it matter that much. Because each pass the water will pick up a little more heat, and water can hold a lot of heat.


Thats funny I was thinking the same 2 things, but i figured I might as well start with a single loop because I would have to use 4 T splitters to run 2. At least I will be able to tell if the flow changes when I goto 2 loops.

I have a rad to add to the loop just using the 5L keg of water for easier test purposes. It would take all day to warm 5 L anyways.
Like last night it peaked at 47 on one core. I bet if I left it for a few hours it would only climb a few degress.


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## Vasily Degtyaryov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trulsrohk*
> 
> I have often wondered about a tower type cooler with the copper pipes being hollow and half filled with water or something for vapor action...


Those are called heatpipes.


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## Magi8800

Finished removing HS fins on the new block.

Just considering how to go about it this time.

Have a couple different ideads for this one.





Still need a good psu as well. Will have to try my main one to make sure thats the issue.


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## Iam4423

subbed

just out of interest when you added the heat pipes to the previous model did you just put them through or did you surround them in thermal paste to improve the heat transfer between block and pipes?

love this project


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## Magi8800

Tried to use thermal past, rubbed some on the tubes before I put them in. But i think it got cleaned off as they slid in.
Bit of a delay on version 2







. Doing some reno's so theres not alot of room to work.


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## Emissary of Pain

subbed for sure ...

I tried this back in the day with an aftermarket coolermaster cooler for my 7600GT ... I was young and stupid and well ... lets just say it was a costly experiment ... haha ...

Well done on the results so far !!


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## Nocturin

*waits for moar*


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## Magi8800

Im going to JB weld 2 pipecaps or something smilar to each side.

Then have 3/8's nipples come 90 degree out of those. Before they are put on I will measure the inside diameter and drill 1/16 or smaller holes directly through it. Should be almost the same as small channels in a traditional block.

Been mulling over different ways, this seems to be the most economical. Originally I want to drill out a larger hole with smaller hoels inside. Then tap it out so the nipples could come on and off. and skip the 90 degree turn. But I will get more holes this way.


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## Wiffinberg

looking good so far!


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## Magi8800

Well I ran into some difficulties with drill bits breaking. Should have been using cutting fluid right off the hop. Result is a little less pretty then I thought it was going to be. Still need to add nipples and collars. Maybe tonite.


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## Bonn93

MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kgtuning

very interesting... this looks like fun.


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## veritas-truth

Yeah, I was gonna mention getting an intel heatsink and make a custom mount; the copper cup in the center would make a great little reservoir for water and would work great if you had the tools and patience to carve some grooves or channels if it.

Drill a hole through one side to affix a nipple or barb of some sort for one inlet; then for the other you can affix some acrylic to the top of the copper cup with a barb in the center

This is the cooler I'm talking about: http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2132&page=2


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## warpuck

Looking the OEM coolers off my 960t & 555BE that I never used, ,,,. fitting 6 3/16 copper tubes through the outer sides (5/16 thick) is possible and you could still use the stock clamp.
I have thought using one of these Z7UH40Q001-1610
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-AVC-Z7UH40Q001-AM3-Quad-Heatpipe-CPU-Cooler-Z7UH40Q001-1610-/190677494714?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item2c6543abba
and just pumping coolant through them after wacking off the fins and flaring the tubes.
Of course I would end up with anther fan I don't use.
I have a new heater core off a 88 Lincoln that I could also use. I could probably get by just sitting it on top of the case with no fan.
I find it odd that I can by a rebuilt water pump for a 302 Ford for less than water pump for PC cooling system.


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## jdip

Subbed.


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## Magi8800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *veritas-truth*
> 
> Yeah, I was gonna mention getting an intel heatsink and make a custom mount; the copper cup in the center would make a great little reservoir for water and would work great if you had the tools and patience to carve some grooves or channels if it.
> Drill a hole through one side to affix a nipple or barb of some sort for one inlet; then for the other you can affix some acrylic to the top of the copper cup with a barb in the center
> This is the cooler I'm talking about: http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2132&page=2


Thats Funny, I have a couple of those and that was my next attack. I like the AM2 stuff cause it fits everything so its easy to test. Intel really needs to unify their mount system.
I just have to do some JB welding and the next unit will be ready.


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## Magi8800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warpuck*
> 
> Looking the OEM coolers off my 960t & 555BE that I never used, ,,,. fitting 6 3/16 copper tubes through the outer sides (5/16 thick) is possible and you could still use the stock clamp.
> I have thought using one of these Z7UH40Q001-1610
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-AVC-Z7UH40Q001-AM3-Quad-Heatpipe-CPU-Cooler-Z7UH40Q001-1610-/190677494714?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item2c6543abba
> and just pumping coolant through them after wacking off the fins and flaring the tubes.
> Of course I would end up with anther fan I don't use.
> I have a new heater core off a 88 Lincoln that I could also use. I could probably get by just sitting it on top of the case with no fan.
> I find it odd that I can by a rebuilt water pump for a 302 Ford for less than water pump for PC cooling system.


That would probably work well. I was thinking of trying that as well. Wait till you see the new one, Ill try to remeber to post some pictures finally. Had a bit of an issue with Drill bits breaking, so I got a little excited with the hammer. She's a little beat up but everything that matters is where it needs to be.


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## Magi8800

Oh also, If your looking for a cheap water pump. Use a pond one from a hardware store, I found one for 13 dollars at home hardware. You just need a container to submerge it in which can double as your resevoir.

Just use a power bar with your comp and pump hooked to it, that way you cant turn on PC without powering pump. Thats what I have to do with my Zalman Reserator anyways.


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## J-Key

Wow.. DIY heatsink look cool MAGI...














:thumb:


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## Magi8800

Finally some new photos, sorry 'bout the delay.



Had a bit of trouble with bits breaking off so its not as pretty as I though it would be.
Got the issue solved now I think, cutting fluid is great.



Going to cap off these collars and put a nipple in at 90 degrees so they stick straight up when mounted.


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## Magi8800

I think using some JB weld or similar will work perfect for sealing it all up.


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## juneau78

idk if im on the right thread, but i found this on local forum (indonesian) some guy tried to watercooled his megahalem.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!










http://forum.chip.co.id/pc-modding/176367-diy-membuat-watercooling-dengan-hsf-heatpipe.html


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## Drewmeister

Hey Magi.. looking good, how are things coming with this?

I see you went through some drill bits there. Cobalt drill bits work best for alum and copper.. drill at slow speed and as you know.. use lots of cutting oil.

Hey juneau78, yes you're at the right thread. Thanks for the link.. great mod on that heat pipe!


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## Erick Silver

Oh wow! I just looked at that link to the foreign site. I have a Xiggy DK that I am not using. I wonder how effective doing something like that would be? My mind is racing now!


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## Magi8800

Hey, sorry for the lack of updates, its been sitting half finished for a month. Stuff keeps coming up, hopefully I get a few hours free to work on it soon.

Cobalt is the best? I figured the HSS would be good since its harder then copper/aluminum, Ill try some cobalt bits.

Lack of a power supply is putting a damper on things, I don't want to experiment on my main system.

I was thinking of trying the heatpipe one but I gave/sold all my coolers that were like that.


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## Unnerup

On your first prototype. How did you get the copper pipe bend so cleanly so close to the heatsink?


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