# Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex Gaming Mouse



## Sencha

May as well get a new thread going for this mouse.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> http://www.hppenterprises.com/computers/input-devices/mice/g303-daedalus-apex-gmg-mse/
> 
> "Designed for performance gaming enthusiasts, Daedalus Apex's advanced optical sensor has maximum tracking accuracy up to 12,000DPI. Make it personal with RGB Customizable lighting.* *Some profile settings require Logitech Gaming Software available for download at logitech.com/downloads "
> 
> 3366 and rgb?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> http://www.trademarkia.com/g303-daedalus-apex-86529849.html
> 
> I'll just leave it here


Come on Cpate spill the beans!


----------



## paers

H Y P E
Y
P
E


----------



## Ino.

I doubt you'll get any info before an official announcement by Logitech


----------



## AnimalK

Possible manufacturer part number: 910-004380


----------



## Melan

That price though lol. 100$ nothx.jpg


----------



## vanir1337

The hype is real.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I doubt you'll get any info before an official announcement by Logitech


Yea of course....just being pushy for the LOLS


----------



## Atavax

interesting, wasn't anticipating g303 as the next gaming mouse name. So 03 is probably an indication of the generation, so then is the first 3 mean its going to be a similar size and weight to the 302? Would be really excited to try the 3366 sensor in a light mouse, the heaviness of the g502 just killed the feeling of the mouse for me.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That price though lol. 100$ nothx.jpg


People wanted everything under the sun in a Logitech mouse, and now they have it, price be damned.


----------



## xmr1

Just sounds to me like a premium version of the G302.


----------



## Vorsplummi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> People wanted everything under the sun in a Logitech mouse, and now they have it, price be damned.


We have what now?

Personally I'd like too WMO shape with 3366 and side buttons but I'm guessing it's 302 with better sensor and RGB lighting.


----------



## Dreyka

Most likely the PMW-3366 sensor. AM010 sensor used in G302 has a malfunction speed of 2.7m/s and many FPS players will hit that. PMW-3366 has a malfunction speed of 7.6m/s which is a speed well beyond what anyone can swipe at.

It might be expensive but if you like the G302 shape and want the best sensor on the market then you are going to pay their price. I doubt it is actually $100 as that is much more expensive than the G502. Price is probably around $70 which is about the same price as the G502.

I'm also wondering whether it is going to include weight cartridges and a braided cable to justify the premium price to the general consumer. The market at the moment has always had the "enthusiast orientated" optical mice priced cheaper in a brands line up and the same is true for Logitech with the G502.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> We have what now?
> 
> Personally I'd like too WMO shape with 3366 and side buttons but I'm guessing it's 302 with better sensor and RGB lighting.


What you have is a presumably low weight mouse with the best sensor they provide along with the bells and whistles of lighting. Shape might be tweaked to be less awkward on the side, who knows.

But at the moment its got everything people wanted sans personal opinion stuff like what shape is best.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> AM010 sensor used in G302 has a malfunction speed of 2.7m/s and many FPS players will hit that.


Honestly, I've never got G302 to malfunction on me yet. Not on 58cm/360.


----------



## TK421

Where can I preorder it? *_*


----------



## Koen3d

I hope it's not the same terrible shape as G302...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koen3d*
> 
> I hope it's not the same terrible shape as G302...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## riznich48

logitech has like 100 different mice models .. all current/new .. mostly redundant... why so many?


----------



## Aventadoor

It will probably be a mice for FPS gamers.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> mice for FPS gamers


Idk about you, but this "mice for [enter game genre here] gamers" has to stop.


----------



## a_ak57

While I'd be sad since I bought my G302 recently, I'd be happy if this is a version with a 3366, less pointy sides and a wider butt. Or just the coveted G9X update. >_>


----------



## zeflow

PLEASE make this close to the g100s in terms of shape


----------



## thuNDa

this might get interesting when it will have a similar shape, but more features including 10g more of weight.


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> this might get interesting when it will have a similar shape, but more features including 10g more of weight.


You troll noooooo!


----------



## CorruptBE

Is this the awesome thing Metal knew about but couldn't tell?


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Is this the awesome thing Metal knew about but couldn't tell?


that's what I first thought


----------



## Dylan Nails

sounds like its going to have a million buttons and a weight system rgb lighting and crap... not expecting much from this company. cant wait for asus sica to come out


----------



## rebecca black

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> sounds like its going to have a million buttons and a weight system rgb lighting and crap... not expecting much from this company. cant wait for asus sica to come out


The Sica shape looks really nice but I don't get why manufacturers think a small WMO like shape has to mean no thumb buttons. I'm hoping Logitech goes with a more traditional, slightly bigger g100s shape with thumb buttons for the g303. That would be a really nice mouse.


----------



## treach

GG Logitech, believe me guys they heard our complains, this will be the mouse we waited for


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> GG Logitech, believe me guys they heard our complains, this will be the mouse we waited for


Don't get your hope high.

No hope, no disappointment.


----------



## AnimalK

I hope they keep the g302 shape. I love it.


----------



## Nilizum

I want a G403, a G402 without all the gimmicks. I love MX518 classic shape.
Assuming the G303 is using the same shapeset with no gimmicks. It could be an entirely new shell though.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> sounds like its going to have a million buttons and a weight system rgb lighting and crap... not expecting much from this company. cant wait for asus sica to come out


"Designed for performance gaming enthusiasts"... I hope not.


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I want a G403, a G402 without all the gimmicks. I love MX518 classic shape.
> Assuming the G303 is using the same shapeset with no gimmicks. It could be an entirely new shell though.


I want this too, g400 shape but slightly smaller and lighter, I would buy 10 to last a lifetime


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Don't get your hope high.
> 
> No hope, no disappointment.


Youre right, but this damn hope that cpate and logitech have secretly soaked up all our complaints and wishes, became fed up and made a bomb ass mouse still there


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> Youre right, but this damn hope that cpate and logitech have secretly soaked up all our complaints and wishes, became fed up and made a bomb ass mouse still there


Now comes the wait and see BUT I doubt you'll get a different shaped mouse from the G302 simply because Logitech isn't in the business to lose money over using one mold for the old G302 shape.

They will most probably do the traditional Zowie routine keep the shape and update the sensor ONLY. That way they keep the investment down to a very small amount yet earn heaps of profit from all the Shills promoting their latest product, when released. Years of watching how companies milk money from fools and idiots who actually think that manufacturers care about their wishes and concerns







.


----------



## CorruptBE

If it's an ambi mouse with a butt or a G100S'ish shape that has a 3366 sensor in it I'm just going f4p or something...


----------



## iceskeleton

I hope they update the mouse cord too. It seems likely imo


----------



## Leopardi

So is this now the "G302+"?


----------



## fnade

Plot twist : "Logitech hardware devs secretly have been reading forum... SS Sensei shaped mouse with 3366, and 90 grams incomming, mind blown, forum goes nuts, overclock servers goes fire under high forum traffic, causes mass extinction of rain forests, but it was worth the shape and sensor."


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fnade*
> 
> Plot twist : "Logitech hardware devs secretly have been reading forum... G700 shaped mouse with A3050, and 150 grams incomming, mind blown, forum goes nuts, overclock servers goes fire under high forum traffic, causes mass extinction of rain forests, but it was worth the shape and sensor."


FTFY

All mouse brand are well aware of this. The question is always is it (we) worth the effort?


----------



## Puck

Sounds like you guys may have finally got your lightweight 3366







.

I am very happy with my G502 though so the only way I would buy if its basically a G9x with 3366...I need a big mouse so it would be nice to have a tiny little mouse with swappable shells so I can have my fat Wide Load mouse while others have tiny little claw mice.

Still have my G9x in a drawer but no way I could get used to its sensor again after the masterpiece 3366...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I doubt you'll get any info before an official announcement by Logitech


Too late?


----------



## metal571

1. I will not comment on this potential product you guys have found until it is released so please, no questions.

2. Wait for the official announcement for all final details.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 1. I will not comment on this potential product you guys have found until it is released so please, no questions.
> 
> 2. Wait for the official announcement for all final details.


Why does it feel wrong when you comment?


----------



## metal571

I'm just trying avoid some kind of inbox of spam. Someone mentioned me earlier, and I will not confirm or deny anything.


----------



## JustinSane

Oh man I'm still riding the HYPE TRAIN from last night about this thing. GOOD LAWD I hope they announce it this week.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm just trying avoid some kind of inbox of spam. Someone mentioned me earlier, and I will not confirm or deny anything.


What he really means is I should stop PMing him when I'm drunk begging for info about it. Hahahaha.


----------



## Ihateallmice

while I'm sure they will find some way to mess this up as usual, I can't help but get excited... damn this hobby


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> If it's an ambi mouse with a butt or a G100S'ish shape (with side buttons) that has a 3366 sensor in it I'm just going f4p or something...


Took the words out of my mouth.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> while I'm sure they will find some way to mess this up as usual, I can't help but get excited... damn this hobby


To quote my post about the G302.

Quote:


> To bad this mouse has an artistic design rather than a functional one. If the sides were shaped better, the scroll wheel was further forward and it was 10mm longer I would praise it.
> 
> Logitech why do you do such great things with the tech only to throw that away with silly aesthetic shapes?
> 
> I don't think this mouse is worth 60 USD being that it has the AM010.


If they made something similar to what I described I would be shocked. Mostly because Logitech went all the way to outer-space to design their new mice.


----------



## munchzilla

darn you logitech...


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That price though lol. 100$ nothx.jpg


If you look at their other mice they put the RRP of the g502 $200+


----------



## Atavax

i'll bet $100 a regular on these forums finds something wrong with it.


----------



## Brightmist

There isn't anything wrong with 3366 and logitech is using decent switches so I guess the only thing they can find wrong with it are shape and cable (which I don't really understand how people can have trouble with mouse cable when mouse bungees are available for 15 years now).


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> There isn't anything wrong with 3366 and logitech is using decent switches so I guess the only thing they can find wrong with it are shape and cable (which I don't really understand how people can have trouble with mouse cable when mouse bungees are available for 15 years now).


well, roccat mice's cables are often too short for me. It also seems like a mouse bungee wouldn't work for someone with too low a sensitivity and many people on this forum play with very low sensitivities.

everyone loved the AM010 in the g100s, but some members of this forum hate it in the g402 and/or g302. I'm sure the sensor will be too tight or too lose or off when using a certain keyboard or something.Then there is location of the sensor, some might complain its too high or too low. Then there is the aesthetic. Then there are the switches, even though they are good quality some will find it too soft or too stiff. Then there is the scroll wheel.


----------



## Maximillion

Obligatory @r0ach signal.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I guess the only thing they can find wrong with it are shape and cable (which I don't really understand how people can have trouble with mouse cable when mouse bungees are available for 15 years now).


90% of the cables on mice braided or not are usable but the one on the G302 was awful. That cable caused me to feel it's force regardless of a bungee or tape. About the shape, I find it funny that the G302 is the only mouse that you see many people trying to convince themselves that they like the shell by mentioning things like "if you give it time, or get used to it". A shell immediately works for your hand size and grip or it doesn't.

If Logitech changed the shell and the cable, kept the weight under 90g while using the 3366 then I have $100 here waiting for them. All of those things most likely won't happen though. Hopefully the Logitech promoters on OCN will be allowed to share their loot soon.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 90% of the cables on mice braided or not are usable but the one on the G302 was awful. That cable caused me to feel it's force regardless of a bungee or tape. About the shape, I find it funny that the G302 is the only mouse that you see many people trying to convince themselves that they like the G302's shell by mentioning things like "if you give it time, or get used to it". A shell immediately works for your hand size and grip or it doesn't.
> 
> If Logitech changed the shell and the cable, kept the weight under 90g while using the 3366 then I have $100 here waiting for them. All of those things most likely won't happen though. Hopefully the Logitech promoters on OCN will be allowed to share their loot soon.


I think the G502 has a lightweight braided cable so maybe they'll use it on the G303. We can hope. I got used to the heavy cable on the G302 though so if it's the same cable it wont bother me.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> About the shape, I find it funny that the G302 is the only mouse that you see many people trying to convince themselves that they like the shell by mentioning things like "*if you give it time, or get used to it"*. A shell immediately works for your hand size and grip or it doesn't.


Yeah, that was funny to read.


----------



## wmoftw

Just make a g100s with side buttons, plz. plzplzplz


----------



## Mych

G3 + spring tension buttons + 3366

I'm not that hopeful, though. Shape's a major investment at this point and they don't seem willing to use old ones.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Hype is real. Subbed.


----------



## kicksome

I don't have any confidence that they'll use a different shell from the 302


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kicksome*
> 
> I don't have any confidence that they'll use a different shell from the 302


99% sure also, they would have given it another number otherwise


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> 99% sure also, they would have given it another number otherwise


yeah that's what I thought as well. Although g400 and g402 are different...
Edit: but they were around 3 years apart


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> If Logitech changed the shell and the cable, kept the weight under 90g while using the 3366 then I have $100 here waiting for them. All of those things most likely won't happen though. Hopefully the Logitech promoters on OCN will be allowed to share their loot soon.


Not going to happen. If you put RGB lights in it's always going to be 90g up


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Not going to happen. If you put RGB lights in it's always going to be 90g up


The shells of Logitech mice tend to be very complicated, that plastic adds weight. Look at the shell of the G302.


----------



## Brightmist

I'm game for either g100 with side buttons or g302 with better sensor at this point since it doesn't look like CM will release Xornet/Spawn refresh anytime soon.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The shells of Logitech mice tend to be very complicated, that plastic adds weight. Look at the shell of the G302.


and you need some extra transparent plastic for those lights and extra stuff to make 3 colored LED do what it does.

G302's already 90g, I don't see how they reduce it below with 90g


----------



## mousefan

Oh yeah we are the Nerds.







Looking forward to more info.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> G3 + spring tension buttons + 3366
> 
> I'm not that hopeful, though. Shape's a major investment at this point and they don't seem willing to use old ones.


This is obviously the rumoured "G302+" project, it's just G302 with the bugs fixed.


----------



## sonskusa

just give me a better cable in a 302 and i'm happy. maybe ill just skip this update and find/buy a braided usb cable somewhere instead...


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: doomleika



Originally Posted by *doomleika* 

Not going to happen. If you put RGB lights in it's always going to be 90g up



Ninox Aurora weighs ~70g and has LEDs. The weight of LEDs is insignificant.



Spoiler: Quote: kicksome



Originally Posted by *kicksome* 

I don't have any confidence that they'll use a different shell from the 302



The shape is very like to be the same given the use the of G30x and "Daedalus".



Spoiler: Quote: sonskusa



Originally Posted by *sonskusa* 

just give me a better cable in a 302 and i'm happy. maybe ill just skip this update and find/buy a braided usb cable somewhere instead...



Agreed.



Spoiler: Quote: doomleika



Originally Posted by *doomleika* 

and you need some extra transparent plastic for those lights and extra stuff to make 3 colored LED do what it does.

G302's already 90g, I don't see how they reduce it below with 90g



The G302 shell is complex and the impact of the LEDs is minimal. It's extremely unlikely that it won't have LEDs and if you don't like that then you are going to have to open one up and strip out any bits you can. I would still consider 90g to be light as well.


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> This is obviously the rumoured "G302+" project, it's just G302 with the bugs fixed.


Obviously reiterated my wish, I hardly think they would actually do it. This project, however, isn't much of anything yet for the public. G502 and G402 were as 'bugged' as G302 in my opinion.

Next up leaked picture, then teaser and publication. Let's say... 1.5 to 2 months?


----------



## mousefan

anything else than a symmetrical one makes no sense or would hugely surprise me. first of the g3 series ever was symmetrical and second look at what they released lately. that's really everything a righthander wishes, so for sure a ambi, but what a ambishape, which internals exactly, which mousewheeltechnique, which size with weightsystem or not makes it interesting.

from my guess it's completely different to the small g302, cause from my guess logitech is doing ambi-wise something for real to come around with a completely new symmetrical Godtiermouse of 2015. I am talking about the Upperambimodel for a long time.









That's at least what they are able to do, cause they are pros. I got the G502 as a lefty always tried to play a bit with the right and it's a extremely superb mouse in every aspect. clicks, shape, weightsystem, mousewheel, seonsor technique, overall buttonplacements, buttonsquality in the highest eliteclass.

no question this mouse will be a must try for me if it turns out to be cool.


----------



## a_ak57

I still think it's realistic this will have a modified shell if not a different one. If it were just a sensor/lighting upgrade they'd probably call it the G302s or G302x or something.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I still think it's realistic this will have a modified shell if not a different one. If it were just a sensor/lighting upgrade they'd probably call it the G302s or G302x or something.


I remember n0thing saying something along the lines of he gave them advice for a new one they were doing to make the back end 25% larger or something like that. So maybe they are modding it up a bit. It was when he was at PAX I think. Someone walked up and asked him about the mouse he was using while he was streaming.


----------



## X-Nine

If this is a G9X update, then it will be the ultimate mouse of the gods. If it's just a G302+ as speculated, then it will be alright, but not worth paying the upgrade to move from my current G302.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> If this is a G9X update, then it will be the ultimate mouse of the gods. If it's just a G302+ as speculated, then it will be alright, but not worth paying the upgrade to move from my current G302.


True on both accounts. What I can't figure out, is that this is in fact just a point upgrade to the 302, why in the world they didn't update the 402 first. That cable HAS to go.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: XNine



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> If this is a G9X update, then it will be the ultimate mouse of the gods. If it's just a G302+ as speculated, then it will be alright, but not worth paying the upgrade to move from my current G302.






PMW-3366 sensor does have advantages such as being able to change the lift off distance and have a much higher malfunction speed. If you are happy with the G302 LOD and never come close to the malfunction speed then the upgrade may not be worth it. This is of course assuming that it is only a sensor change and not a shell change. We don't know at the moment.

I really do hope it is a G9x update but I don't think it is likely.


----------



## X-Nine

Yeah, I hear you, I highly doubt it's a G9X update too, but if it is, I'll buy it day 1 without any hesitation. Wishful thinking is all....


----------



## detto87

My guess: a G100S upgrade. 3366 sensor in a shell that lies inbetween a G302 and G100s.

Checking out www.logitech.de and it's not possible to buy any G100S there anymore! Hint?!









Aurora / Big-G100S shape with 3366 sensor and G302 buttons. Make it real, Logitech!


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My guess: a G100S upgrade. 3366 sensor in a shell that lies inbetween a G302 and G100s.
> 
> Checking out www.logitech.de and it's not possible to buy any G100S there anymore! Hint?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aurora / Big-G100S shape with 3366 sensor and G302 buttons. Make it real, Logitech!


PLEASE THIS +1


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My guess: a G100S upgrade. 3366 sensor in a shell that lies inbetween a G302 and G100s.
> 
> Checking out www.logitech.de and it's not possible to buy any G100S there anymore! Hint?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aurora / Big-G100S shape with 3366 sensor and G302 buttons. Make it real, Logitech!


That would be amazing and because of that it won't happen.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: detto87



Originally Posted by *detto87* 

My guess: a G100S upgrade. 3366 sensor in a shell that lies inbetween a G302 and G100s.

Checking out www.logitech.de and it's not possible to buy any G100S there anymore! Hint?!









Aurora / Big-G100S shape with 3366 sensor and G302 buttons. Make it real, Logitech!



They've removed the G100s from the page. They are probably discontinuing it and making the G300s the budget mouse. I would be surprised if they released an updated G100s considering that it already used the AM010 and it doesn't mean the G303 will have the G100s shape. If the G303 is shaped like the Ninox Aurora then I'll be happy but who knows at the moment.


----------



## Mych

Oh man, kudos to Logitech marketing. ^^


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paers*
> 
> H Y P E
> Y
> P
> E


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> They've removed the G100s from the page. They are probably discontinuing it and making the G300s the budget mouse. I would be surprised if they released an updated G100s considering that it already used the AM010 and it doesn't mean the G303 will have the G100s shape. If the G303 is shaped like the Ninox Aurora then I'll be happy but who knows at the moment.


My bet is they are going to use g90 as replacement. It doesn't make sense when your most new stuff(G910, G402, G302, G300s, and possiblely G303) gets 2 year warranty and entry level like g100s gets 3 year warranty.

They are going to cut back those warranty one day. this might be the right time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> The G302 shell is complex and the impact of the LEDs is minimal. It's extremely unlikely that it won't have LEDs and if you don't like that then you are going to have to open one up and strip out any bits you can. I would still consider 90g to be light as well.


You have to consider shells to facilitate the light too, G402/G502 uses special tube to prevent light to leak, I believe if they cut out that stupid light mask of G302 it will be at least lighter for 3g


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: doomleika



Originally Posted by *doomleika* 


> My bet is they are going to use g90 as replacement. It doesn't make sense when your most new stuff(G910, G402, G302, G300s, and possiblely G303) gets 2 year warranty and entry level like g100s gets 3 year warranty.
> 
> They are going to cut back those warranty one day. this might be the right time.
> You have to consider shells to facilitate the light too, G402/G502 uses special tube to prevent light to leak, I believe if they cut out that stupid light mask of G302 it will be at least lighter for 3g






I've never seen the G90 before. How is it any different to the G100s and how long has it been out for?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I've never seen the G90 before. How is it any different to the G100s and how long has it been out for?


Same as G100s, but with different paint job, minimilistic packaging, different coating, 5M omron switch and a worse feet.

But component difference is minimal IMO. It's more a product naming issue. It's better to release a 'brand new' product with inferior support period than saying 'Starting now, all G100s will be one-year warranty only' and survive the PR poopstorm from whiny consumer.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> They've removed the G100s from the page. They are probably discontinuing it and making the G300s the budget mouse. I would be surprised if they released an updated G100s considering that it already used the AM010 and it doesn't mean the G303 will have the G100s shape. If the G303 is shaped like the Ninox Aurora then I'll be happy but who knows at the moment.


I am buying up some g100s' then. Stock up in case they're impossible to find later


----------



## wmoftw

Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.

So I guess don't get too excited.

edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.
> 
> So I guess don't get too excited.
> 
> edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


make sense. same serial, close number and close naming.


----------



## Maximillion

Yeah the name/number is sort of the dead giveaway that it's an "enhanced" G302.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.
> 
> So I guess don't get too excited.
> 
> edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


If this is accurate then I expect to have the same sensor


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.
> 
> So I guess don't get too excited.
> 
> edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


I assume you mean the only change is mouse feet aside from new sensor and RGB lighting, right? It wouldn't make any sense for them to actually change the number if it's 100% the same other than feet. Either way that's disappointing. I mean, the vast majority of complaints online seem to revolve around the shape and not the sensor. Would have been fantastic if they flattened out the sides and widened the butt. Oh well.


----------



## kicksome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.
> 
> So I guess don't get too excited.
> 
> edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


Boooooooooo


----------



## Melan

Oh well, I guess I'll just use my method for balancing on G302 lol. All that hype though









Edit: I wonder if I can return my G302 for G303, but not sure if "wobbling" excuse will work. What is the chance of "You're just holding it wrong" reply?


----------



## iceskeleton

Rather have the same shape + 3366 than a new shape + same sensor tbh


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Rather have the same shape + 3366 than a new shape + same sensor tbh


Yep.


----------



## connectwise

What's wrong with the g302 sensor?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> What's wrong with the g302 sensor?


Some people found it's not as good as 3366

besides, low malfunction speed. though i doubt how many would need more than it.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> What's wrong with the g302 sensor?


Besides the feeling, the malfunction speed and LOD. It's a decent sensor, just not on the same level as the 3366.


----------



## Melan

LOD is a tad high, at least compared to my FK1. As for malfunction speeds, unless you're playing on like really low (70cm or lower) sensitivities, no way you'll hit 3m/s. If you do, stop flailing mouse around, because I can't see how tight in-game situation has to be for you to twitch that fast.


----------



## Atavax

If it is just a change in feet, along with 3366 sensor and rgb lighting, and they keep selling the 302 as a budget 303, i wonder how many people spend the extra money on the rgb lighting and better sensor. I think there are many enthusiasts that would, but i wonder how many average pc gamers see the higher dpi or hear the reputation of the 3366 sensor or just like rgb lighting enough to justify spending more on a mouse.


----------



## Melan

I'm certain normal people don't know about sensor performance and just choosing their mice on "bigger the number - the better" also "pretty lights" and "spaceship shape".

Edit: And they don't care either. They just buy what's comfortable and that's it. I'm sure most of them use default configuration on mice they bought.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.
> 
> So I guess don't get too excited.
> 
> edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


That sounds wrong considering the name change.

Your "source' isn't some Twitch streamer is it? I have seen kids going around posting stuff on different sites saying they have a "source" when they do not. It's just them making stuff up hoping to be right afterwards. Of course they are wrong and never respond about their "source."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> If it is just a change in feet, along with 3366 sensor and rgb lighting, and they keep selling the 302 as a budget 303, i wonder how many people spend the extra money on the rgb lighting and better sensor. I think there are many enthusiasts that would, but i wonder how many average pc gamers see the higher dpi or hear the reputation of the 3366 sensor or just like rgb lighting enough to justify spending more on a mouse.


If that was the case the G100S would be dead as the G302 would be it's replacement. That would make one GO Cloud 9 member upset.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> What's wrong with the g302 sensor?


It is a great sensor. I only like the 3310 over it. The reason being I find it less precise for very small movements. I still prefer it over everything else.

I have never tried the the sensor in the g502 and some in this thread were speculating that the g303 might use it. I was (and still am) hoping that this is the case.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That sounds wrong considering the name change.
> 
> Your "source' isn't some Twitch streamer is it? I have seen kids going around posting stuff on different sites saying they have a "source" when they do not. It's just them making stuff up hoping to be right afterwards. Of course they are wrong and never respond about their "source."
> If that was the case the G100S would be dead as the G302 would be it's replacement. That would make one GO Cloud 9 member upset.


Living with mouse one don't like is one of virtue of pro gamer.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> About the shape, I find it funny that the G302 is the only mouse that you see many people trying to convince themselves that they like the shell by mentioning things like "if you give it time, or get used to it". A shell immediately works for your hand size and grip or it doesn't.


I find the prevalence of the attitude, that gaming is all personal preference, frustrating. You like 1 mouse shape, and thats it, every mouse has to mimic that or its trash ergonomically. The best knife grip isn't the most intuitive. The best golf swing isn't the most intuitive. To be a good chef or a good golfer, you are constantly working on the mechanics. But for some reason when you grip a new mouse with a less intuitive shape, anyone that takes the time to get used to holding the mouse in a different way is a shill. I don't think you're truly a gaming enthusiast if you aren't willing to try new things relating to the hobby. Being unwilling to master different types of mice grips is like a chef being unwilling to try any different kinds of an ingredient. If you are passionate about gaming you should be passionate about trying different and new things. It sounds like you're just a spoiled kid. Logitech challenging the concept of what a mouse's shape should be, should be celebrated. Not scorned.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> I find the prevalence of the attitude, that gaming is all personal preference, frustrating. You like 1 mouse shape, and thats it, every mouse has to mimic that or its trash ergonomically. The best knife grip isn't the most intuitive. The best golf swing isn't the most intuitive. To be a good chef or a good golfer, you are constantly working on the mechanics. But for some reason when you grip a new mouse with a less intuitive shape, anyone that takes the time to get used to holding the mouse in a different way is a shill. I don't think you're truly a gaming enthusiast if you aren't willing to try new things relating to the hobby. Being unwilling to master different types of mice grips is like a chef being unwilling to try any different kinds of an ingredient. If you are passionate about gaming you should be passionate about trying different and new things. It sounds like you're just a spoiled kid. Logitech challenging the concept of what a mouse's shape should be, should be celebrated. Not scorned.


Say that to my messed up wrist or doctor.


----------



## iceskeleton

If you get RSI from the mouse, I highly doubt a g100s shape would've avoided it. Probably your position and posture


----------



## e4stw00t

I tend to agree with Atavax - the forum as such is all in on extremes - there is no common ground in terms of shape, size, weight and such - one persons preference is disliked by others. Just look at the never ending discussions about braided cables or huano switches. Don't get me wrong on this statement though it's fine to state that certain features of a mouse disqualify it for a given individual (if that person just moves on) however all this "not X, Y or Z - you don't get my money" is just immature as it's driven by the mindset that the companies are out there to create the one single mouse that fits all my requirements.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> I find the prevalence of the attitude, that gaming is all personal preference, frustrating. You like 1 mouse shape, and thats it, every mouse has to mimic that or its trash ergonomically. The best knife grip isn't the most intuitive. The best golf swing isn't the most intuitive. To be a good chef or a good golfer, you are constantly working on the mechanics. But for some reason when you grip a new mouse with a less intuitive shape, anyone that takes the time to get used to holding the mouse in a different way is a shill. I don't think you're truly a gaming enthusiast if you aren't willing to try new things relating to the hobby. Being unwilling to master different types of mice grips is like a chef being unwilling to try any different kinds of an ingredient. If you are passionate about gaming you should be passionate about trying different and new things. It sounds like you're just a spoiled kid. Logitech challenging the concept of what a mouse's shape should be, should be celebrated. Not scorned.


There's preferences and then there's awful designs. For an example I hate the Deathadder's shell for my grip but I can accept that the design is very comfortable for other grips. I feel the same about 95% of mouse shells, they are perfectly functional as long as it fits the users preferences.

You might see the G302 as Logitech challenging the concept of what a mouse should be shaped as and that's perfectly fine but after trying it out, this is what I see:


----------



## Abacus1234

There may be "bad" designs for a gaming mouse, but the g302 is not one of them. From the moment I picked it up I already felt comfortable with the shape. I have tried a lot of mice since, but for me the shape and weight of it feels perfect. Say whatever you want, there are people who felt right at home with it from the beginning. Maybe the shape is a little out there, and wont appeal to MOST people, but that doesn't mean it wont be liked by ANYONE. The same applies to music, food, everything.


----------



## wmoftw

To answer some questions

I asked in regards to the g100s being taken down, I wanted to know if they were making an alternative, or killing it and making the g302 the replacement. I wanted to know if the g303 had a different shell or if it was the same as the 302. I was confirmed the only new mouse is the g303, and the shell was the same as the g302. I was told about the new feet to help balancing. I didn't ask about anything else because I was never interested in the g302 in the first place. I might give it a shot now but the shape looks odd.

And my source is fine. I wouldn't post the info if I thought it was bs.

also the wmo is amazing but its 400dpi. can't win them all. g100s for the time being, it's a solid replacement imo


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> There's preferences and then there's awful designs. For an example I hate the Deathadder's shell for my grip but I can accept that the design is very comfortable for other grips. I feel the same about 95% of mouse shells, they are perfectly functional as long as it fits the users preferences.
> 
> You might see the G302 as Logitech challenging the concept of what a mouse should be shaped as and that's perfectly fine but after trying it out, this is what I see:


But that's just what _you_ see.
I can grip the G302 comfortably in 3 different ways and I'm using it over the G100s as my office mouse (I spend much more time in the office than I do gaming) for quite some time now. And that is even though it felt a bit awkward when I first held it.
A colleague of mine saw the mouse on my desk, tried it and immediately liked it so he went and bought it too. Another tried it and didn't like it at all. It's preference.

I'm still not using it for gaming though because I find the FK1 shape to work better for _me_, but it's a completely functional shape.


----------



## metal571

I feel like the only reason why I haven't complained about the 302 shape is because I'm a fingertip.


----------



## JustinSane

I actually like the G302 shape. I can claw, fingertip, and even palm it. My hands are long slender vampire hands though. I'm still hyped for this mouse as I like the G302 shape. One thing I'm hoping for though is a better cable. If not it's not a deal breaker. I'm still super hyped to try the 3366.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> If it is just a change in feet, along with 3366 sensor and rgb lighting, and they keep selling the 302 as a budget 303, i wonder how many people spend the extra money on the rgb lighting and better sensor. I think there are many enthusiasts that would, but i wonder how many average pc gamers see the higher dpi or hear the reputation of the 3366 sensor or just like rgb lighting enough to justify spending more on a mouse.


I think with extra lights the casuals will be there with money in hand. And we get the better sensor.


----------



## Nilizum

I'm impartial to the G302 shape. I can grip it fine and it fits fine, but the sides that stick out feel bumpy and uncomfortable for longer game sessions. It feels heavy too.


----------



## pruik6

I think you should not place you're finger on the bump, at least i dont do that. I swap between the back and the front sides with my thumb.
Depends how i use it i claw en fingertip it.


----------



## Harrywang

Just a small review.

I bought a g302 last week after searching for a new mice after my g400 got plagued with the cord problem. I decided to try the g302 because of people raving about the switches and how they are the best and also for the quick input latency. I also have somewhat small hands so I kinda knew the shape wouldn't be a BIG problem.

I really REALLY wanted to try to like the g302. However after using it extensively for a whole week between a intellimouse 1.1, g400 and g302 I just can't seem to feel 100% comfortable with the g302. The shape wasnt a HUGE problem, but it was still a problem. You know it's there, and it always will bother you at the back of your head.

Another thing was the sensor. I had no problems with the low PCS however the sensor isn't as "smooth" as the 3310 (i've used my friends rival) I was making very good shots however it always felt like I was never in 100% control of my accuracy. I don't know how to explain it, but if you read the 3310 vs am010 thread people there explained it perfectly.

The clicks are amazing however I feel as though they are overrated. They are just a little bit better then standard omron switches you find now in most mice. The side buttons aren't that great either. They take some force to press and have somewhat of a travel time.

I was planning on keeping it to really get used to it. But I tried my old intellimouse 1.1 and I kicked myself for not buying more of these. They are still IMO the best gaming mice out there. Returned it instantly after seeing this thread


----------



## Sencha

This is the 303 thread. You may want to post your findings here instead









http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/1420


----------



## Nilizum

But there's nothing official about the G303, and people are speculating that it uses the same shell as the G302, so it's fine if he talks about it here, since he is talking about the feeling of the shell.


----------



## Harrywang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> This is the 303 thread. You may want to post your findings here instead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/1420


I read the whole thread before I decied to purchase my g302









I wanted to post my small review here because of 2 things : The shape and the sensor

I feel if they changed both of these it will be best mouse on the market. Knowing a big company like logitech that is unlikely to happen. The shape will probably stay the same.


----------



## popups

Typical G302 owner about the shape?

















Quote:


> Update 2: After returning to a DiamondBack shaped mouse, I've realized that the wider back on this actually prevents some stability (yeah go figure). Personally a longer, more narrow mouse suits me better than a shorter, wider mouse like this G302..


In general one of my favorite shapes. Although I didn't like the indents on the sides.


If they don't change the shape I will continue with the decision (since I decided not to buy the MX518, instead buying the Diamondback) not to buy a Logitech mouse.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> I read the whole thread before I decied to purchase my g302
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to post my small review here because of 2 things : The shape and the sensor
> 
> I feel if they changed both of these it will be best mouse on the market. Knowing a big company like logitech that is unlikely to happen. The shape will probably stay the same.


OK no worries. Just wanted to give a heads up just in case. Post away my friend.

EDIT: Popups, that Red DB was my first proper mouse. Loved that thing......stupidly upgraded to the Copperhead......and promptly return to the DB


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> I find the prevalence of the attitude, that gaming is all personal preference, frustrating. You like 1 mouse shape, and thats it, every mouse has to mimic that or its trash ergonomically. The best knife grip isn't the most intuitive. The best golf swing isn't the most intuitive. To be a good chef or a good golfer, you are constantly working on the mechanics. But for some reason when you grip a new mouse with a less intuitive shape, anyone that takes the time to get used to holding the mouse in a different way is a shill. I don't think you're truly a gaming enthusiast if you aren't willing to try new things relating to the hobby. Being unwilling to master different types of mice grips is like a chef being unwilling to try any different kinds of an ingredient. If you are passionate about gaming you should be passionate about trying different and new things. It sounds like you're just a spoiled kid. Logitech challenging the concept of what a mouse's shape should be, should be celebrated. Not scorned.


The golf comparison doesn't really hold. In fact, golf is actually even more against what you're advocating than the gamers you're talking about. Yes, there are multiple golf swings and the best ones may not be intuitive, but you're supposed to try and perfect one swing. No sane coach would tell you to learn a furyk swing and a tiger swing, they'd tell you to find the swing that works best for you and master it. So a golf parallel would actually be using one mouse shape/grip and then mastering it. And the chef thing isn't really valid either IMO, we're talking about physical activities here. The chef/ingredient comparison would be more akin to "you should play different games" or something.

Besides, you're overqualifying your argument by talking about "best" things. Unless you're claiming the G302 is the best shape (or rather the grip needed for it is the best grip), you're really just saying that we should learn a Furyk swing just because. And in general I think you're overreacting; people are simply saying they'd rather the G302 have some different shape elements. Nobody is saying it should be a G400 because every other shape is the worst thing ever, they just bring up an element or two they want changed like the pointy sides.


----------



## SmashTV

Its funny and embarrassing that to say shape is subjective and comfort varies per person is met with hostility on this forum.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Say that to my messed up wrist or doctor.


Derp's post which you agreed with, said that people spending the time to get used to a shape was evidence that it was bad because the shape was unintuitive, it was bad. The problem is an unwillingness by some to try something new. Not that after giving it a fair chance some still preferred an older shape.


----------



## test user

I'm hoping this one will be smaller than the G302. For some reason there's still no mice on the market that try to be as small and light as possible. I'd figure the most natural way to grip a mouse would be having your hand in the same position as when holding it on the table completely relaxed. All these modern fingertip mice get in the way of that by being high and long, so you have to lift your hand or straighten your fingers if you don't want your palm to touch the mouse. Which more tension, which isn't good.

E: Here was my idea of a non-intrusive mouse








I'd like to see something like that on the market so I don't have to make a new one when it breaks down...


----------



## Nilizum

Razer Salmosa Asia edition is as small as possible. It exists.


----------



## fuzzybass

Yup. Thin and narrow shape is the best - which Razer has had all along with their Boomslang, Diamondback, Lachesis, and their Taipan mice. The Taipan's shape is by far my favorite, but of course, the laser sensor has kept me from using it.

If Razer had a Taipan with an optical sensor, they'd have a customer for life (me). Razer QA be damned, I'd just buy dozens of them to keep me stocked for life.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Razer Salmosa Asia edition is as small as possible. It exists.


E: Dammit, none being sold


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Derp's post which you agreed with, said that people spending the time to get used to a shape was evidence that it was bad because the shape was unintuitive, it was bad. The problem is an unwillingness by some to try something new. Not that after giving it a fair chance some still preferred an older shape.


I have to agree with Atavax 100%.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Derp's post which you agreed with, said that people spending the time to get used to a shape was evidence that it was bad because the shape was unintuitive, it was bad. The problem is an unwillingness by some to try something new. Not that after giving it a fair chance some still preferred an older shape.


What I see is people trying to make excuses for the shape of the G302 (and potentially the G303). Trying to say it's good, then throwing in a "but" in the same sentence. The only people that I don't see criticizing the shape of the sides are people who use more of a finger tip grip (where they barely touch the mouse). It has nothing to do with stubbornness to try new shapes.


----------



## test user

^ Agree with that, I can't imagine having a comfortable palm(ish) grip on the G302 and for fingertip anything small enough goes. It's not small though.

Logitech's new mice are pretty weirdly shaped IMO. G502 is like it was intended to be palm but comes off as claw, and then there's this G302.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Typical G302 owner about the shape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Update 2: After returning to a DiamondBack shaped mouse, I've realized that the wider back on this actually prevents some stability (yeah go figure). Personally a longer, more narrow mouse suits me better than a shorter, wider mouse like this G302..
> 
> 
> 
> In general one of my favorite shapes. Although I didn't like the indents on the sides.
> 
> 
> If they don't change the shape I will continue with the decision (since I decided not to buy the MX518, instead buying the Diamondback) not to buy a Logitech mouse.
Click to expand...

Hated that shape, the \_/ shape of the diamondback was too extreme and was hard to grip as a fingertip user, caused me to lift the mouse unintentionally which decreases accuracy.

G302 shape doesn't bother me took several adjustments on finger placement till i found one that worked for me but it's fine now.

Personally the most natural fingertip mouse i've ever used was Logitech's G9 with wide grip, it allowed me to pivot as my grip was further down than the sensor which i can't always do with mice. Plus the grip i had on it was secure was easy to move around due to it's low height and length.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Yup. Thin and narrow shape is the best - which Razer has had all along with their Boomslang, Diamondback, Lachesis, and their Taipan mice. The Taipan's shape is by far my favorite, but of course, the laser sensor has kept me from using it.
> 
> If Razer had a Taipan with an optical sensor, they'd have a customer for life (me). Razer QA be damned, I'd just buy dozens of them to keep me stocked for life.


True I still cant get over the fact that a company like razer with such a technoligy knowledge took a freaking laser for that beauty. the taipan wasn't only a simple ambi mouse. frist off it brought in the new quality and haptic wave followed by those 2013 products and was really high quality from internals to shape, materials, awesome clicks and second the chance to make a cut above the rest at least for a while. damn razer guys, it's time to show what they were once legendary with the first so called gaming mouse ever. it just sucks companies wasting so much potential. the same is for steelseries and their sensei. how they milked that freaking mouse in thousand versions with one implemented laser after anotherone is almost pervert.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What I see is people trying to make excuses for the shape of the G302 (and potentially the G303). Trying to say it's good, then throwing in a "but" in the same sentence. The only people that I don't see criticizing the shape of the sides are people who use more of a finger tip grip (where they barely touch the mouse). It has nothing to do with stubbornness to try new shapes.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> ^ Agree with that, I can't imagine having a comfortable palm(ish) grip on the G302 and for fingertip anything small enough goes. It's not small though.
> 
> Logitech's new mice are pretty weirdly shaped IMO. G502 is like it was intended to be palm but comes off as claw, and then there's this G302.


I can palm the g302 very comfortably and often do.

What I don't understand is how people in this forum talk like their experience is the only experience others can have. I don't care how "spaceship" a design is.


----------



## X-Nine

The G302 is the only mouse I've come across that I've liked since my G9x. So, I don't really care what anyone else says, and I'd still melt their faces in an FPS.


----------



## Melan

I just sent mine back to amazon. I'll wait for G303, don't want to mutilate design with white hyperglides.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I can palm the g302 very comfortably and often do.
> 
> What I don't understand is how people in this forum talk like their experience is the only experience others can have. I don't care how "spaceship" a design is.


WHAT?! You mean you decide your mice on how comfortable it feels for you - the user - and are not judging it based on it's aesthetics?!







You mean to tell me you're not trying to pedestal your experience with the mouse as the sole experience one will have no matter what?!









YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU DECIDE ON A MOUSE ON HOW IT BEST FITS YOU, LOOKS BE DAMNED?!!!









You are not of this forum.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> WHAT?! You mean you decide your mice on how comfortable it feels for you - the user - and are not judging it based on it's aesthetics?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean to tell me you're not trying to pedestal your experience with the mouse as the sole experience one will have no matter what?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU DECIDE ON A MOUSE ON HOW IT BEST FITS YOU, LOOKS BE DAMNED?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are not of this forum.


overclock.net/fps "pro" elitist opinion:

We'll buy mice regardless of how good they are because they have no leds even though a mouse with leds performs better!!!

Basically how Zowie takes advantage of people with this mindeset


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> overclock.net/fps "pro" elitist opinion:
> 
> We'll buy mice regardless of how good they are because they have no leds even though a mouse with leds performs better!!!
> 
> Basically how Zowie takes advantage of people with this mindeset


well you can't argue with the fact that Zowie still makes decent mice, even if they're not the best on all fronts.








many love the shape of them though.


----------



## Forma

Whatever it is, if it's meant to be G302 like, as in an ambidextrous design, i hope it has *side buttons on both sides* this time. And <80g would be too much to hope for.

It's weird, it seems a common request from those looking for a real performance mouse is something extremely light weight and small, but it's just so rare these days. There is potential here for one company who steps up, to make a killing.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> Whatever it is, if it's meant to be G302 like, as in an ambidextrous design, i hope it has *side buttons on both sides* this time. And <80g would be too much to hope for.
> 
> It's weird, it seems a common request from those looking for a real performance mouse is something extremely light weight and small, but it's just so rare these days. There is potential here for one company who steps up, to make a killing.


I am not a kid anymore. So I don't care for small mice. I like a mouse to fill my hand for better stability.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I am not a kid anymore. So I don't care for small mice.


Indeed because this is how it works...


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Indeed because this is how it works...


What, you didn't know?









As for the topic. Assuming that G302 shell remains, I hope Logitech leave old feet and just add extra on the sides. I kinda ordered extra Hotline feet from takasta lol.


----------



## Bucake

@Melan:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> Some info from a reliable source: the G303 is the same shape as the G302, with different mouse skates. No new version of the g100s.
> 
> So I guess don't get too excited.
> 
> edit: the updated mouse skates are to fix 'balancing' issues. I never researched the G302 much so I don't know anything about that.


if the sensor is a 3366, i'll consider getting one








but, as always, i'll wait for some reviews first


----------



## popups

A player from Cloud 9 said it is the same shape. Different mouse feet, braided cable, G302 shape, etc.






2 hour 28 minutes into the VOD.


----------



## Pimp

n0thing confirmed on stream that the g303 has a braided cable. guessing it will be the same as g502 cable which is fine by me, much preferred over g402 cable anyways!


----------



## Pimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A player from Cloud 9 said it is the same shape (if I heard correctly). Different mouse feet, braided cable, G302 shape, etc.


yes this is what i heard too


----------



## connectwise

Or.... we could just buy the 302 on discount once the 303 comes out....

I see nothing wrong with the 302, other than person preference on the shape.


----------



## Crizzl

I'm pretty sure I heard him say same sensor too.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> I'm pretty sure I heard him say same sensor too.


I think it has a 3366 sensor and light effects [RGB LED] based on the stuff from some websites.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> I'm pretty sure I heard him say same sensor too.


There goes any excitement I had for this mouse :/


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> There goes any excitement I had for this mouse :/


Doesn't make sense to change the name to G303 Daedalus Apex if you keep the same sensor. I don't think a name change is warranted if all you do is change a LED, braid the cable and fix the bottom shell by adding more feet.


----------



## Furell

That would be pretty sad (and weird), according this will be their first update to a mouse in their renewed G series line up, only to make up for the damage they did with the G302? Didn't they test in the lab that the mouse cord sucked? That sounds really weird to me, but well I guess it's smart marketing wise. From an outsider's point of view though, this makes absolutely no sense. If I even was in the market for this mouse, I never will buy both of them, especially because they're so closely released from each other and almost have no difference. If they will release the G303 with updated mouse cord, 3366 sensor, RGB lightning and higher the cost, it will make more sense to me.

Thinking about it, if they do release it just with RGB lightning and a better cord and higher the price, maybe it is some kind of test to see how the consumers react to this new more expensive marketed product. Or maybe they want to test whether or not they can launch 2 very similar mice in such a close timespan from one another, maybe hoping a lot of people will buy it twice because they liked it at first, but hey, this better upgraded version is out now, let's buy that one aswell! That probably isn't the case but you never know, though that will only work 2 or max 3 times, then consumers will know you fool them and just wait for the upgraded version.

TL;DR: I have no clue (if t he statements above me are right) what Logitech's intentions are with this product release with such little improvement. I guess we'll wait and see. I think a PAX East announcement is most likely?


----------



## FreeElectron

damn
I just bought the G502...


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> I'm pretty sure I heard him say same sensor too.


I wouldn't trust them 100% to know exactly what's inside the mouse. I'm still banking on the 3366 being in it based off of the product description we've seen.

Also, I hope this thing is announced soon. I literally do searches for G303 every 30 mins. I'm starting to worry about myself.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Same as G100s, but with different paint job, minimilistic packaging, different coating, 5M omron switch and a worse feet.
> 
> But component difference is minimal IMO. It's more a product naming issue. It's better to release a 'brand new' product with inferior support period than saying 'Starting now, all G100s will be one-year warranty only' and survive the PR poopstorm from whiny consumer.


I could easily see the same reasoning being applied here.


----------



## popups

I guess most people will be disappointed if this mouse is simply a G302 with extra mouse feet and a braided cable, especially if it is more expensive, considering Logitech are fixing failures they created.

I should start to work on getting my own shape printed for a 3366 PCB. I already have some drawings on paper. I have to get it done in CAD (whenever I am not lazy).


----------



## mousefan

I hope it will turn out to something decent. it just would be cool to call a mouse with my strong left hand from logictech my own and especially a good one. small, medium, big, from fingertip, hybrid, claw to palm I dont really care. I would just like to use another strong mouse in my collection. ^^

I can adapt to every grip so long the shape isn't groundbraking bad. ^^


----------



## FreeElectron

How reliable is the information regarding the sensor being the 3366 in the G502?


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How reliable is the information regarding the sensor being the 3366 in the G502?


so reliable as stated in the first source and these sourcepages were also right with the current new models from logitech before they came out.

what that dude said about that shape close or identical to g302 could be real true. I just derive that from the same additional name deadalus what's sense making. otherwise they would have spend a completely new model a completely new model name. I had wished so, but however, we will see and I am sure logitech is doing something good. if they will think about my right sidebuttons as a lefty? I would cry a river if not. lol ^^


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Furell



Originally Posted by *Furell* 


> That would be pretty sad (and weird), according this will be their first update to a mouse in their renewed G series line up, only to make up for the damage they did with the G302? Didn't they test in the lab that the mouse cord sucked? That sounds really weird to me, but well I guess it's smart marketing wise. From an outsider's point of view though, this makes absolutely no sense. If I even was in the market for this mouse, I never will buy both of them, especially because they're so closely released from each other and almost have no difference. If they will release the G303 with updated mouse cord, 3366 sensor, RGB lightning and higher the cost, it will make more sense to me.
> 
> Thinking about it, if they do release it just with RGB lightning and a better cord and higher the price, maybe it is some kind of test to see how the consumers react to this new more expensive marketed product. Or maybe they want to test whether or not they can launch 2 very similar mice in such a close timespan from one another, maybe hoping a lot of people will buy it twice because they liked it at first, but hey, this better upgraded version is out now, let's buy that one aswell! That probably isn't the case but you never know, though that will only work 2 or max 3 times, then consumers will know you fool them and just wait for the upgraded version.
> 
> TL;DR: I have no clue (if t he statements above me are right) what Logitech's intentions are with this product release with such little improvement. I guess we'll wait and see. I think a PAX East announcement is most likely?






The amount of sales from people here is a a drop in the ocean for Logitech and I seriously doubt the G303 is a rushed product after the G302. The G302 was well received except for the cable which was also used on the G402. Remember that Logitech does get feedback from professional gamers and other people here who are beta testing their mice. I am surprised that nobody during this period brought up the cable but I can't discount they chose stiff rubber cables for a reason (whatever it may be).

The G303 will almost certainly use the PMW-3366 considering that is a Logitech exclusive sensor and the only other sensor that goes up to 12000 CPI. What is more interesting is that the G303 may be a premium version of the G302 but that isn't too surprising if you consider that the G402 may have been considered a budget version of the G502. From a general consumers perspective the G502 has a better feature list than the G402 so they would consider it better.

This might just be a business strategy from Logitech where they make a "superior" version so that people who couldn't afford to buy the G303 would buy the G302 and eventually upgrade to the G303. The same goes for the G402 and G502. If the G303 is priced at $69.99 or $79.99 it would be a considerable amount more expensive than the G302.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> The amount of sales from people here is a a drop in the ocean for Logitech and I seriously doubt the G303 is a rushed product after the G302. The G302 was well received except for the cable which was also used on the G402. Remember that Logitech does get feedback from professional gamers and other people here who are beta testing their mice. I am surprised that nobody during this period brought up the cable but I can't discount they chose stiff rubber cables for a reason (whatever it may be).
> 
> The G303 will almost certainly use the PMW-3366 considering that is a Logitech exclusive sensor and the only other sensor that goes up to 12000 CPI. What is more interesting is that the G303 may be a premium version of the G302 but that isn't too surprising if you consider that the G402 may have been considered a budget version of the G502. From a general consumers perspective the G502 has a better feature list than the G402 so they would consider it better.
> 
> This might just be a business strategy from Logitech where they make a "superior" version so that people who couldn't afford to buy the G303 would buy the G302 and eventually upgrade to the G303. The same goes for the G402 and G502. If the G303 is priced at $69.99 or $79.99 it would be a considerable amount more expensive than the G302.


nice thoughts.









main I wanna know what's up now. logitech hype to stronk, can't sleep, kidding.









but we all wanna know don't we?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> so reliable as stated in the first source and these sourcepages were also right with the current new models from logitech before they came out.
> 
> what that dude said about that shape close or identical to g302 could be real true. I just derive that from the same additional name deadalus what's sense making. otherwise they would have spend a completely new model a completely new model name. I had wished so, but however, we will see and I am sure logitech is doing something good. if they will think about my right sidebuttons as a lefty? I would cry a river if not. lol ^^


I checked the sources (trademark sources)
Can you please link the sources regarding the mouse sensor being the same as G502?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> I hope it will turn out to something decent. it just would be cool to call a mouse with my strong left hand from logictech my own and especially a good one. small, medium, big, from fingertip, hybrid, claw to palm I dont really care. I would just like to use another strong mouse in my collection. ^^
> 
> I can adapt to every grip so long the shape isn't groundbraking bad. ^^


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/140_20#post_23566969

If this statement is correct this mouse is just a variant of the G302. If you have one you already know if you will like it.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/140_20#post_23566969
> 
> If this statement is correct this mouse is just a variant of the G302. If you have one you already know if you will like it.


If that statement is correct, it's just another 1337xXgaym3rzX piece of crap from Logitech.

Why don't they make a normal mouse? It's not THAT hard... Just keep making the exact shape as the MX518/G400 and G500, and also a nice ambidextrous mouse with a normal shape (Just like a Sensei or a WMO)
I've seen so many people using the Sensei, Sensei RAW or Xai. It's just impossible to think that no one will buy it.

I also never seen a person using the G302. Only shroud, actually. (and a FEW people on ocn)


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> If that statement is correct, it's just another 1337xXgaym3rzX piece of crap from Logitech.


Bold words from Mr. leetspeak - love these kind of threads where people jump to conclusions at stages where everything is speculative at best. They have some serious conspiracy theory vibe!


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Bold words from Mr. leetspeak - love these kind of threads where people jump to conclusions at stages where everything is speculative at best. They have some serious conspiracy theory vibe!


*"If that statement is correct"*


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: aLv1080



Originally Posted by *aLv1080* 


> If that statement is correct, it's just another 1337xXgaym3rzX piece of crap from Logitech.
> 
> Why don't they make a normal mouse? It's not THAT hard... Just keep making the exact shape as the MX518/G400 and G500, and also a nice ambidextrous mouse with a normal shape (Just like a Sensei or a WMO)
> I've seen so many people using the Sensei, Sensei RAW or Xai. It's just impossible to think that no one will buy it.
> 
> I also never seen a person using the G302. Only shroud, actually. (and a FEW people on ocn)






Great idea! Those engineers at Logitech probably have no idea what they're doing what with it being their first ever mouse. It's not like they do a lot of market research and use heatmaps to design a mouse shape that is meant to work well with a variety of hand sizes. That guy aLv1080 knows best knows best and they should just design a Sensei clone! If only Logitech knew what they were doing.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I checked the sources (trademark sources)
> Can you please link the sources regarding the mouse sensor being the same as G502?


No, but in case you missed it every time some weird retail site write it spec it came out correct. The is true for g502 g402 and g302


----------



## trUte

I'll be buying one right away if it has the 3366 sensor in it. I like the g502 but the scroll wheel and weight are still an issue for me even after months of constant use.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Bold words from Mr. leetspeak - love these kind of threads where people jump to conclusions at stages where *everything is speculative at best.* They have some serious conspiracy theory vibe!


Ahh... We know the name due to trademark filing. We see details from retail sites that list products earlier than release. We heard a member of a team that Logitech supports make a statement about it. That is all speculation at best.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Great idea! Those engineers at Logitech probably have no idea what they're doing what with it being their first ever mouse. It's not like they do a lot of market research and use heatmaps to design a mouse shape that is meant to work well with a variety of hand sizes. That guy aLv1080 knows best knows best and they should just design a Sensei clone! If only Logitech knew what they were doing.


You know who else uses heat maps to designing stuff? Valve. They make some really great CS maps don't they? All because of those amazing heat maps.

Didn't Logitech use a G100 to create heat maps? Did they decide to remove all the areas that weren't necessary so they could make a fancy shape that works only for a specific grip?

What about when they forgot to have the accelerometer function for the Y axis on the G402? What about the balance issue with the G302? How about that G502?


----------



## Sencha

I'll throw some money at Shroud's stream and ask him for some details when I've got time at home


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> If that statement is correct, it's just another 1337xXgaym3rzX piece of crap from Logitech.
> 
> Why don't they make a normal mouse? It's not THAT hard... Just keep making the exact shape as the MX518/G400 and G500, and also a nice ambidextrous mouse with a normal shape (Just like a Sensei or a WMO)
> I've seen so many people using the Sensei, Sensei RAW or Xai. It's just impossible to think that no one will buy it.


You are not alone here a good many people feel the same way as you. Logitech seems to care about the Lamers sorry 'G'amers, and everything seems gifted towards them. Young people will only accept stuff that has so much money thrown down in propaganda sites promoting their 'refuse' disguised as input devices now.

As long as it has flashy lights and some A'hole is promoting it, then they buy it without question so Logitech has learned from Razer on how to sell Garbage to the populace and it works.

All I can say now is to hold onto all of your older Logitech mice because they were the absolute LAST quality items that will be produced by them, for some time to come.


----------



## Brightmist

I think that Logitech is a good company producing good quality mice, especially click latency and sensor-wise yet all the extra bells&whistles and extra weight really make their products unusable.
I also think G302 was a step in the right direction and I honestly expect G303 to be better and I hope Logitech will stop putting in sniper buttons and other bull**** buttons and a ton of weight and lights and all the other bells&whistles in the future.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I'll throw some money at Shroud's stream and ask him for some details when I've got time at home


Do you have an estimated time you'll be doing this? I wanna watch.


----------



## royalkilla408

I hope Logitech does something good with this mouse. I am personally loving my G502 since its released honestly. Still, I HATE the color though. I hope Logitech gives us options to change the LED colors of the mouse. Also make the mouse all black and all white version. If the G303 has the same sensor as my G502, lighter, quality wheel, color of our choice, and a good shape then I don't care about the price. Just use quality components and a great design and people will pay more than average $$$ for it. I would. It be an instant buy for me.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I'll throw some money at Shroud's stream and ask him for some details when I've got time at home


i woke up in time to hear his response, which i paraphrase: what's a g303 get a g302


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> i woke up in time to hear his response, which i paraphrase: what's a g303 get a g302


Yea that leads me to believe that he just has a "302+" with extra skates and MAYBE a braided cable. Hopefully the 303 has the braided cable too.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> No, but in case you missed it every time some weird retail site write it spec it came out correct. The is true for g502 g402 and g302


I need the link for that weird site


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I need the link for that weird site


It was the link in the first post. Appears to be deleted now







.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> It was the link in the first post. Appears to be deleted now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


aah...


----------



## iceskeleton

So shroud is using some different g302 right now?


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> So shroud is using some different g302 right now?


I believe so. Just like they have special mouse pads I think they probably have some sort of modified G302.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I believe so. Just like they have special mouse pads I think they probably have some sort of modified G302.


Maybe it's the beta and he doesn't want to talk about an unannounced product. They probably lectured Jordan after he gave some info


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> Ahh... We know the name due to trademark filing. We see details from retail sites that list products earlier than release. We heard a member of a team that Logitech supports make a statement about it. That is all speculation at best.
> You know who else uses heat maps to designing stuff? Valve. They make some really great CS maps don't they? All because of those amazing heat maps.
> 
> Didn't Logitech use a G100 to create heat maps? Did they decide to remove all the areas that weren't necessary so they could make a fancy shape that works only for a specific grip?
> 
> What about when they forgot to have the accelerometer function for the Y axis on the G402? What about the balance issue with the G302? How about that G502?






I'm saying that Logitech does put thought into designing their mice and I never had balance problems with the G302. Unsurprisingly, people with different hand sizes and grips may have issues that others don't.

Nobody ever swipes quickly on the Y axis unless you are playing a flight/space sim and even then they are unlikely to be swiping faster than 2.7m/s. I'm not surprised that it never it showed up because the only way you could make it malfunction was holding the mouse sideways and swiping left to right. I'll also point out that all the beta testers that Logitech had for the G402, including professional gamers, never found this problem.



Spoiler: Quote: Elrick



Originally Posted by *Elrick* 


> You are not alone here a good many people feel the same way as you. Logitech seems to care about the Lamers sorry 'G'amers, and everything seems gifted towards them. Young people will only accept stuff that has so much money thrown down in propaganda sites promoting their 'refuse' disguised as input devices now.
> 
> As long as it has flashy lights and some A'hole is promoting it, then they buy it without question so Logitech has learned from Razer on how to sell Garbage to the populace and it works.
> 
> All I can say now is to hold onto all of your older Logitech mice because they were the absolute LAST quality items that will be produced by them, for some time to come.






If Logitech didn't care then they'd still be using the A9800. Seeing such blind hatred for Logitech and Razer and such blind fanboyism for Zowie is such an embarassment to this forum. Reasons for liking and disliking something should be based upon reason not random brand hatred. Logitech and everyone else KNOW what the average consumer wants and they accommodate to that whilst also designing their mice in ways that also perform well. There are compromises between what some people here want and what the average consumer wants but that isn't surprising considering that Logitech obviously would'nt be interested in making mice that only appeal to a small niche of FPS gamers. The G302, G402 and G502 are all good mice and while you may not like everything about them you can't say they are terrible. We've all got criticisms and I may not like their rubber cables but I can still recognise that there is a lot done right with these mice.

Saying that all the old Logitech mice were quality and all the new ones are terrible really just shows those rose-tinted glasses. The old mice were also flawed and new sensor technology is far better than older sensors such as the A3090. We've made a huge amount of progress in the last few years and there are more good mice being released than ever before. I wonder if you remember the days when all mice were being released with the A9500 and A9800 because I do and they weren't great. We've got more choice today than ever before.



Spoiler: Quote: Brightmist



Originally Posted by *Brightmist* 


> I think that Logitech is a good company producing good quality mice, especially click latency and sensor-wise yet all the extra bells&whistles and extra weight really make their products unusable.
> I also think G302 was a step in the right direction and I honestly expect G303 to be better and I hope Logitech will stop putting in sniper buttons and other bull**** buttons and a ton of weight and lights and all the other bells&whistles in the future.






Logitech has consistently excellent click latency and provides access to full sensor functionality unlike others. If you don't like the sniper button then remove it or disable it but I understand why it is there and depending on your hand size it will bother some and not others. The LEDs are not going because they are also marketable and all it takes is to install software once to turn them off permanently. Install software. Set up mouse the way you like it. Uninstall software. Settings are stored on the onboard memory.


----------



## iceskeleton

With regard to the g402 engine, I remember seeing their test config from the video tour and I think it was either a spinning disc or an arm swipe config without testing Y independently. So it probably worked differently than the sensors, regardless it was an easy fix once found.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I'm saying that Logitech does put thought into designing their mice and I never had balance problems with the G302. Unsurprisingly, people with different hand sizes and grips may have issues that others don't.
> 
> Nobody ever swipes quickly on the Y axis unless you are playing a flight/space sim and even then they are unlikely to be swiping faster than 2.7m/s. I'm not surprised that it never it showed up because the only way you could make it malfunction was holding the mouse sideways and swiping left to right. I'll also point out that all the beta testers that Logitech had for the G402, including professional gamers, never found this problem.


Just FYI Y axis has been fixed, so does circle one. Yeah, they ****ed up at initital release but they did fix the problem so it's not a big deal for me


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: doomleika



Originally Posted by *doomleika* 


> Just FYI Y axis has been fixed, so does circle one. Yeah, they ****ed up at initital release but they did fix the problem so it's not a big deal for me






Thanks. I know it has been fixed and was just pointing out that it was completely understandable how they didn't notice it. Nobody swipes that fast on the Y axis in FPS gaming.


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Just FYI Y axis has been fixed, so does circle one. Yeah, they ****ed up at initital release but they did fix the problem so it's not a big deal for me


Actually the circle bug isnt fixed, it still spazzes out, but i think its impossible to make this happen ingame


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> Actually the circle bug isnt fixed, it still spazzes out, but i think its impossible to make this happen ingame


The way I could make it break in the past was doing fast, large circle movements. I can't do that anymore after the firmware update.


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The way I could make it break in the past was doing fast, large circle movements. I can't do that anymore after the firmware update.


Yeah, Its only possible now if u keep a cirlcle with over 3m/s


----------



## thizito

logitech is awesome in almost every regard
3366 + THE clicks + everything

but they dont keep it simple..

just imitate: Sensei or Intellimouse 1.1a / WMO and perfect copy of 3.0 / COPY OWN OLD MICES... g9x and mx300
just copy shape and weight..

i think 80% of forum will go logitech.. no doubt.
combine with a nice cable... nice clicks.. gg

because THAT they are stupid starwars nerds dumb and i hate.
they made a ugly shell in g302 and a not so awesome in g100s..
and people are happy with that.. damn lord


----------



## detto87

Funny english but I totally agree.
Logitech could win easily the biggest piece of the pie of the mice market if they focused more on proper shapes.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: detto87



Originally Posted by *detto87* 

Funny english but I totally agree.
Logitech could win easily the biggest piece of the pie of the mice market if they focused more on proper shapes.



They already have the biggest piece of the pie along with Razer. What is said is here on this forum is ultimately irrelevant because it is a small niche. They could shift to using the A9800 and it wouldn't make any difference to their sales. Actually, it would probably improve them a bit.


----------



## Melan

I guess there's no ETA when G303 arrives? Sensor on my FK1 keeps dying so I kinda stuck on MX500 for now.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> They already have the biggest piece of the pie along with Razer. What is said is here on this forum is ultimately irrelevant because it is a small niche. They could shift to using the A9800 and it wouldn't make any difference to their sales. Actually, it would probably improve them a bit.


Well
Logitech G502 has top sales in Amazon.com.

So, we might be effective after all


----------



## popups

I don't see why a very large company like Logitech cannot make different shells/shapes with the same sensor. Have a competitive/professional gamer line and a casual consumer line. Even ODM companies have a large selection of molds to use...

Jordan [n0thing] has a similar opinion about what is needed by competitive/pro gamers.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Funny english but I totally agree.
> Logitech could win easily the biggest piece of the pie of the mice market if they focused more on proper shapes.


Proper shapes for you doesn't mean the same thing for everyone else. This forum has a real center-of-the-universe complex going on.

And no, it won't suddenly capture majority market share. Same thing was said for bst's mouse. The mouse to end all mice. Will put the big comapnies to pay attention. So on and so forth. If anything he can't get refunds out fast enough.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> This forum has a real center-of-the-universe complex going on.


I thought this forum is the most popular place on the internet for mice. I thought companies use this forum for market research and design decisions. I thought if you typed "____ review" you would get OverClock in the top search results.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I thought this forum is the most popular place on the internet for mice. I thought companies use this forum for market research and design decisions. I thought if you typed "____ review" you would get OverClock in the top search results.


This is just an enthusiast sub-forum.

There's company activity, much like there is on ESRelaity and Reddit and they don't really adhere to what this place demands. Otherwise all mice would look like the WMO and use the same sensor and would be a stagnant industry. Variety is great.

Yes, there are a lot of reviews on here, but so does YouTube. The information here is worth much more than in other places but the end result is still the same that it's still an enthusiast sub-forum.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> I thought this forum is the most popular place on the internet for mice. I thought companies use this forum for market research and design decisions. I thought if you typed "____ review" you would get OverClock in the top search results.






A recommendation from one well known youtuber or one popular tech site would have more affect on sales than this sub-forum ever would.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> A recommendation from one well known youtuber or one popular tech site would have more affect on sales than this sub-forum ever would.


Then all companies better start doing this:


----------



## Melan

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Then all companies better start doing this:






Really, Steelseries?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't see why a very large company like Logitech cannot make different shells/shapes with the same sensor. Have a competitive/professional gamer line and a casual consumer line. Even ODM companies have a large selection of molds to use...
> 
> Jordan [n0thing] has a similar opinion about what is needed by competitive/pro gamers.


If logitech was fine with more limited production runs and not as focused on the brick and mortar for every product they could do it, but it's not what they do.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> If logitech was fine with more limited production runs and not as focused on the brick and mortar for every product they could do it, but it's not what they do.


The competitive gamer line would mostly be sold online. The casual gamer line would be sold at retail chains and online.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Proper shapes for you doesn't mean the same thing for everyone else. This forum has a real center-of-the-universe complex going on.
> 
> And no, it won't suddenly capture majority market share. Same thing was said for bst's mouse. The mouse to end all mice. Will put the big comapnies to pay attention. So on and so forth. If anything he can't get refunds out fast enough.


who said bsts mouse would be big? its made by a nobody and it uses a 3090 in 2015 lol. and it has software problems, bad cable, and those click problems. the perfect mouse would be an abyssus like shape with 3366, onboard memory, non-stiff cable, and coating like DA 2013


----------



## Dylan Nails

lmao is that steelseries ufc fighter real or photoshopped


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> who said bsts mouse would be big? its made by a nobody and it uses a 3090 in 2015 lol. and it has software problems, bad cable, and those click problems. the perfect mouse would be an abyssus like shape with 3366, onboard memory, non-stiff cable, and coating like DA 2013


Everyone will have his own definition of a perfect mouse.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> who said bsts mouse would be big? its made by a nobody and it uses a 3090 in 2015 lol. and it has software problems, bad cable, and those click problems. the perfect mouse would be an abyssus like shape with 3366, onboard memory, non-stiff cable, and coating like DA 2013


You obviously were not at ESReality when the idea formed. Also missing the point.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Everyone will have his own definition of a perfect mouse.


For sure. OCN and ESR are ONLY places of opinions and little else, hence proceed with care.......


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> lmao is that steelseries ufc fighter real or photoshopped


Alexander was sponsored by Steel Series. He is from Sweden and near the age of competitive gamers. He also won the online popularity vote to be on the cover of the UFC game.










Great thing about Steel Series is their support for competitive gamers. Sure their products can be overpriced, but at least you know where some of the money is going. When they do update their Sensei I will most likely buy one...


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> This forum has a real center-of-the-universe complex going on.


This so much!


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I thought this forum is the most popular place on the internet for mice. I thought companies use this forum for market research and design decisions. I thought if you typed "____ review" you would get OverClock in the top search results.


Hey, if that's true, someone out there please read this:

I can't use the MX300/G1/G100 shape and I can't use the MX500/G400 shape. Both make my RSI issues flare up. I tried it again and again, and it's really impossible. The pain always starts after at most a handful days.

I need a mouse shape where I can get somewhat under the mouse with both thumb and ring finger so that repositioning the mouse can be done with a very light grip. Straight sides are impossible for me. I also can't use the pinky for gripping the mouse when lifting, it needs to be the ring finger.

I'm very happy with the newer direction of shapes for G402, G302 and I hope it won't ever turn back to the old shapes.

PS: The old Microsoft shapes are completely impossible for me, though can be alright if they're tweaked and there's some sort of \___/ shape for the lower half of the mouse like on the FK1 for example. I'd rather Logitech stays with their own shapes, please.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Hey, if that's true, someone out there please read this:
> 
> I can't use the MX300/G1/G100 shape and I can't use the MX500/G400 shape. Both make my RSI issues flare up. I tried it again and again, and it's really impossible. The pain always starts after at most a handful days.
> 
> I need a mouse shape where I can get somewhat under the mouse with both thumb and ring finger so that repositioning the mouse can be done with a very light grip. Straight sides are impossible for me. I also can't use the pinky for gripping the mouse when lifting, it needs to be the ring finger.
> 
> I'm very happy with the newer direction of shapes for G402, G302 and I hope it won't ever turn back to the old shapes.
> 
> PS: The old Microsoft shapes are completely impossible for me, though can be alright if they're tweaked and there's some sort of \___/ shape for the lower half of the mouse like on the FK1 for example. I'd rather Logitech stays with their own shapes, please.


Have you tried EVGA X5 ? It does have a \___/ shape on lower half.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Alexander was sponsored by Steel Series. He is from Sweden and near the age of competitive gamers. He also won the online popularity vote to be on the cover of the UFC game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great thing about Steel Series is their support for competitive gamers. Sure their products can be overpriced, but at least you know where some of the money is going. When they do update their Sensei I will most likely buy one...


theres nothing great about steelseries, they sponsor tons of esports teams but dont make good products


----------



## Bucake

i doubt that steelseries are sponsoring to 'support competitive gamers'.
just business..


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Have you tried EVGA X5 ? It does have a \___/ shape on lower half.


excellent tip in this case, superb mouse, but i seem to be to rough for those sensitives clicks. i will give that mouse a few more tries here and there so muich is sure, cause except that lil problem it's an awesome fingertip oder claw lightweight mouse in every aspect. shape and sensorwise damn nice and good to control.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Hey, if that's true, someone out there please read this:
> 
> I can't use the MX300/G1/G100 shape and I can't use the MX500/G400 shape. Both make my RSI issues flare up. I tried it again and again, and it's really impossible. The pain always starts after at most a handful days.
> 
> I need a mouse shape where I can get somewhat under the mouse with both thumb and ring finger so that repositioning the mouse can be done with a very light grip. Straight sides are impossible for me. I also can't use the pinky for gripping the mouse when lifting, it needs to be the ring finger.


you rather treat your "RSI issues", than to look for mice which you can still use in your crippled state of your body.








http://www.triggerpoints.net/forearm-hand-pain

(+ rethink your computer ergonomics)


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> you rather treat your "RSI issues", than to look for mice which you can still use in your crippled state of your body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.triggerpoints.net/forearm-hand-pain
> 
> (+ rethink your computer ergonomics)


It's basically too late.







I made the mistakes a long time ago, when QuakeWorld was like food (for the soul) and I had to play it every day. I didn't think of ergonomics. I'm nowadays completely pain free if I do stretches and work out a bit regularly, but I still need a mouse like described.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It's basically too late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistakes a long time ago, when QuakeWorld was like food (for the soul) and I had to play it every day. I didn't think of ergonomics. I'm nowadays completely pain free if I do stretches and work out a bit regularly, but I still need a mouse like described.


Seems like any gaming/standard centric mice won't help much imo. Maybe there is some optical vertical mouse out there


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> This so much!


I guess it is.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1432942/steelseries-rival/1120_20#post_22087987
Quote:


> _We _do_ read these forums all the time, so seeing your issues reported have helped us troubleshoot the issue. As stated in the forum, if you have an issue, always open a ticket. It will get to us in R&D. Thanks to the couple of you that did open tickets._ -- JeffM


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I guess it is.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1432942/steelseries-rival/1120_20#post_22087987


Out of context. The tickets probably contained links to the forum here.

Nonetheless, they still don't kneel to the vocal minority here. Most of their mice still have lazers in them.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Out of context. The tickets probably contained links to the forum here.
> 
> Nonetheless, they still don't kneel to the vocal minority here. Most of their mice still have lazers in them.


Quote:


> _*We _do_ read these forums all the time*, so seeing your issues reported have helped us troubleshoot the issue. As stated in the forum, if you have an issue, always open a ticket. It will get to us in R&D. Thanks to the couple of you that did open tickets. -- JeffM_


Is that someone's user name or did he say they read this forum all the time? I wonder what "all the time" means. I guess it means only when there is a support ticket linking to this forum.

They had the 3305, 3050, 3060, 3090, 3310 sensors in their mice.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Is that someone's user name or did he say they read this forum all the time? I wonder what "all the time" means. I guess it means when there is only a support ticket linking to this forum.
> 
> They had the 3305, 3050, 3060, 3090, 3310 sensors in their mice.


Your condescending attitude gets you nowhere, especially when you're trying to prop up this forum of all places as something more than a fan forum.

Again, there are plenty of corporate members browsing this forum, much like places like Reddit and YouTube.

And lastly, yes, still out of context. there was no debate that corporate members read this forum. The key is that the constant complaining that only "one shell, one sensor, one button placement" gets any attention. If they truly paid attention to the vocal minority, you'd have Sensei's with optical sensors at the very least. and if this forum was truly paid attention to, you would only have WMO style mice for sale.

Stating that the big mouse makers read here is - again - no debate. This forum is not the center of all things mice.


----------



## CorruptBE

I just miss the good ole days where Logitech would have the same sensor in each MX mouse... (300/500).

Pick your shape without compromise.


----------



## Melan

I still have the MX500 with A2020. It has angle snapping but still an excellent mouse.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I just miss the good ole days where Logitech would have the same sensor in each MX mouse... (300/500).
> 
> Pick your shape without compromise.


And all top build quality, too. G100s is a joke compared to G3. Even their old OEM pilot mice with the same shape felt more sturdy than the G100s.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> And all top build quality, too. G100s is a joke compared to G3. Even their old OEM pilot mice with the same shape felt more sturdy than the G100s.


Recently received a couple of current G100S's and they are so poor in quality and the switches seem quite different between themselves.

No even display of firmness when pressing the switches which is quite confronting when dealing with a "Logitech" product, just wondering if they subbed out their manufacture to some bottom dwelling company paid to produce sub-standard mice, like what Razer has been doing for years.


----------



## Atavax

if the g303 is the same shell as the g302 but with higher end sensor, rgb lighting, better feet and cable; maybe the only way they can make it financially justifiable to make a high end light mouse is by cutting costs by using the same shell as another mouse. Assuming a high end light mouse needs at least 1 side button, if not 2, that eliminates the g100s, leaving only the g302 shell.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Assuming a high end light mouse needs at least 1 side button, if not 2, that eliminates the g100s, leaving only the g302 shell.


Look, an ambidextrous shell from Logitech that has side buttons. It appears that it was designed for human hands too!


----------



## Atavax

Or you know, they could us a modern shell, designed with feedback from professional gamers, because you know, logitech probably has a lot more information with the feedback around the g302's ergonomics from a large amount people. You just have more information on a single person's thoughts on the ergonomics. But no, because you don't like it, the masses don't like it...


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Look, an ambidextrous shell from Logitech that has side buttons. It appears that it was designed for human hands too!


Funny G3 line lived for a very short life

Imbues we need to protect the lofe cycle


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*


My favourite mouse ever. Also the one that lasted longest. Still waiting for this mouse with a modern sensor. Hoping for the g303 to come close..


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> My favourite mouse ever. *Also the one that lasted longest.*


That right here is the problem.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> That right here is the problem.


Same thing goes for me. I used mx300 a good 7 years and I tried a dozen different shells on top of that and couldn't find one I like as much, yet.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Look, an ambidextrous shell from Logitech that has side buttons. It appears that it was designed for human hands too!


Hurts to even watch... the G100s is so incredibly bad in comparison.


----------



## mksteez

When is the announcement?


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Hurts to even watch... the G100s is so incredibly bad in comparison.


not really, the G3 was too heavy and it was a laser sensor. I remember having lots of problems with the sensor and it messing up on small bits of fabric. At least the g100s isn't stupid heavy and has a decent sensor (not for CS players though)


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: wmoftw



Originally Posted by *wmoftw* 


> not really, the G3 was too heavy and it was a laser sensor. I remember having lots of problems with the sensor and it messing up on small bits of fabric. At least the g100s isn't stupid heavy and has a decent sensor (not for CS players though)






Not all "laser" sensors have acceleration but older laser sensors certainly were less compatible with cloth. One of the major improvements the A9500 and A9800 had over older laser sensors were that they worked much better on cloth surfaces than previous "laser" sensors. They still work best on hard surfaces though.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Assuming a high end light mouse needs at least 1 side button, if not 2, that eliminates the g100s, leaving only the g302 shell.
> 
> 
> 
> Look, an ambidextrous shell from Logitech that has side buttons. It appears that it was designed for human hands too!
Click to expand...

Been waiting for a refresh of the G3 forever.
It was just the perfect mouse outside the abit iffy sensor at the time.

But several years later and I still have not gotten what I wanted


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Been waiting for a refresh of the G3 forever.
> It was just the perfect mouse outside the abit iffy sensor at the time.
> 
> But several years later and I still have not gotten what I wanted


WE are here still waiting, I would WORSHIP Logitech till the day I die if ONLY they would bring back that exact same shape and style of mouse (Star Wars free).

Have to wipe away the tears of dismal loss because nothing they have released thus far comes even close to that G3 wonder







.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> WE are here still waiting, I would WORSHIP Logitech till the day I die if ONLY they would bring back that exact same shape and style of mouse (Star Wars free).
> 
> Have to wipe away the tears of dismal loss because nothing they have released thus far comes even close to that G3 wonder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Why don't they reuse that mold and use the updated AM010 from the G302? They could replace the G100S with that. Not much effort for them to do. Seriously.


----------



## dmbr

Do I see only one side button?? Ugh. Deal breaker


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Do I see only one side button?? Ugh. Deal breaker


If you mean the picture you saw on this page here, that's the Logitech G3, a mouse from eight years ago. People are just discussing something about that shape and that's why the picture is here.

The G303 will probably look like the G302, so look that one up. It has two thumb buttons.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> not really, the G3 was too heavy and it was a laser sensor.


The G3 is stated to weigh 88 gram, which is just about as heavy as an unmodded G100s. No idea if it was moddable for weight, it was no problem at all for me. Contemporary mice with comparable specs made it feel like a feather.

And of course it's no use comparing sensors that are 6 years of development apart. We were just discussing shell shapes that worked very well and we'd like to see back with better sensors. I have the idea most shells in the current Logitech range are just shaped more radical for looks only, instead of offering better ergonomics (even suffering in that department)

*edited because weight sources were unclear about cord


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> The G3 is stated to weigh 88 gram, which is just about as heavy as an unmodded G100s. No idea if it was moddable for weight, it was no problem at all for me. Contemporary mice with comparable specs made it feel like a feather.
> 
> And of course it's no use comparing sensors that are 6 years of development apart. We were just discussing shell shapes that worked very well and we'd like to see back with better sensors. I have the idea most shells in the current Logitech range are just shaped more radical for looks only, instead of offering better ergonomics (even suffering in that department)
> 
> *edited because weight sources were unclear about cord


The new shapes are better than the old shapes for me. I start feeling pain after a few days of using the old shapes. This does not happen with the new shapes.

This seems to make no sense because the old shapes feel more comfortable at first, but the pain is real. It first appears in the ring finger and pinky, then radiates into the palm, and then into the forearm. It feels like a mix of pain and numbness. There seems to be no way for me to completely avoid this through work-outs and stretches (though that helps). When it has reached the forearm, the only way to fix it is to stop playing for two months or so. If I don't stop, it starts going up to the shoulder and the situation gets seriously scary.

While the new shapes seem weird, there's really nothing to argue with regards to ergonomics for my issue. I can use the new shapes completely pain free even if playing a lot with just some stretches and a bit of work-out, and this just isn't possible with the old shapes. If they really just did the changes for the looks, then at least for myself, they've gotten pretty lucky with the results.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> Why don't they reuse that mold and use the updated AM010 from the G302? They could replace the G100S with that. Not much effort for them to do. Seriously.







 The AM010 may not fit in the hole for the sensor in the G3 shell. Cost of tooling isn't cheap.
 They would need to rebrand the box and mouse.
 They would need to make a minimum number of units which would be in the thousands. I also doubt Logitech is going to go through all this effort just to sell a few thousand units. This is the kind of thing you only do if it is an anniversary you want to celebrate.
 The Logitech G100s would be cheaper to build. It is also their budget mouse so they obviously want to save costs.

It's never going to happen. Logitech are just not interested in creating niche mice for niche audiences which makes sense considering they are one of the largest mice sellers in the business (same for Razer). The old shells will not be coming back.

You don't spend your valuable time making pennies when you could be making pounds. If you want this mouse then it's best to beg someone like BST to make it or use crowd-funding. This is also one of the major reasons why it is important to support someone like BST because they are willing to listen to your suggestions on what mice to build next.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The new shapes are better than the old shapes for me. I start feeling pain after a few days of using the old shapes. This does not happen with the new shapes.
> 
> This seems to make no sense because the old shapes feel more comfortable at first, but the pain is real. It first appears in the ring finger and pinky, then radiates into the palm, and then into the forearm. It feels like a mix of pain and numbness. There seems to be no way for me to completely avoid this through work-outs and stretches (though that helps). When it has reached the forearm, the only way to fix it is to stop playing for two months or so. If I don't stop, it starts going up to the shoulder and the situation gets seriously scary.
> 
> While the new shapes seem weird, there's really nothing to argue with regards to ergonomics for my issue. I can use the new shapes completely pain free even if playing a lot with just some stretches and a bit of work-out, and this just isn't possible with the old shapes. If they really just did the changes for the looks, then at least for myself, they've gotten pretty lucky with the results.


you really should look into triggerpoints from what you write there.
after all, the new logitech shapes just might prevent you from getting in a posture which induce all of those problem(with the chest-, scapula- and neck muscles being the primary origin of the problems, not even the forearm and hand).








it's tricky, in the end every change of the angle(in any direction) of only the wrist, results in a bit different activation of the musclechain above it.


----------



## wmoftw

The best part about the G3 shell was the grip. It wore down after a few years of very hard use, but I felt like no other grip was as comfortable. It was rough enough to where you could grip it, but it wasn't some horrible rubber that you hated.

Now I miss the G3 too


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> [/spoiler]
> 
> you really should look into triggerpoints from what you write there.
> after all, the new logitech shapes just might prevent you from getting in a posture which induce all of those problem(with the chest-, scapula- and neck muscles being the primary origin of the problems, not even the forearm and hand).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's tricky, in the end every change of the angle(in any direction) of only the wrist, results in a bit different activation of the musclechain above it.


Which imo is also why some people can reach high malfunction speeds. When I flick I tense up these muscles really quickly, giving me over 3 m/s over smaller distances even.

On the other end of the spectrum I've seen really relaxed players handle a G5 at low sens as well.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> The G3 is stated to weigh 88 gram, which is just about as heavy as an unmodded G100s. No idea if it was moddable for weight, it was no problem at all for me. Contemporary mice with comparable specs made it feel like a feather.


It depends on the shape and size of the mouse.
An unmodded G100S (83gr) feels significantly heavier than a WMO (80gr).
A modded G100S (70gr) feels identical to a WMO (80gr).


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> you really should look into triggerpoints from what you write there.
> after all, the new logitech shapes just might prevent you from getting in a posture which induce all of those problem(with the chest-, scapula- and neck muscles being the primary origin of the problems, not even the forearm and hand).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's tricky, in the end every change of the angle(in any direction) of only the wrist, results in a bit different activation of the musclechain above it.


Yes, I had to start working seriously on my issues after things got super bad in 2003-2005 after practicing a lot for LAN tournaments. I'm completely broken if I'm lazy and don't exercise, the pain always comes back so seems to be a chronic issue and needs constant work. I found what's most important for me is strengthening back and core muscles, neck stretches, and those exercises where you twist the spine, so that's the stuff I always keep up with. When I say the old shapes give me pain, that's despite the exercise and things like using a posture and table and chair height that normally works alright for me.


----------



## Longasc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Just sounds to me like a premium version of the G302.


Very much so!

It will for sure dominate all those omega mice with their clown cursors!


----------



## Sencha

https://www.bestbuybusiness.com/bbfb/en/US/adirect/bestbuy?cmd=catProductDetail&showAddButton=true&productID=BB19709212

What's MSE? Is that like the US equivalent of RRP (recommended retail price)?


----------



## Maximillion

"Mse" is just short for mouse in that description. But the price seems about what I'd expect if it's sporting a 3366.


----------



## Sencha

Thanks Max.


----------



## popups

A $70 G302 shaped mouse? Hopefully not because that isn't for me.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A $70 G302 shaped mouse? Hopefully not because that isn't for me.


What exactly would be the problem with that for you ? I just got a g302 to try out the shape and it seems to be a pretty good mouse. Clicks are heavenly, sensor seems fine but will even be better in g303, mousewheel is ok, cord could be better but at least it's sturdy, and without lethal kinks like SS braided cables.

I'm not convinced about the rear end though. Still cannot figure out the rationale behind that skinny ass, and don't know yet if I can or want to adjust to it.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> A $70 G302 shaped mouse? Hopefully not because that isn't for me.






It's funny how people complain about expensive mice and then go buy a Zowie mouse for $60. The fact is that as much as people here complain we are not that price sensitive if it means buying a mouse that best meets our preferences. I would expect the G303 to be $10 cheaper than the G502 which would price it at $69.99 MSRP. The actual price will likely be $59.99 at places like Amazon.


----------



## marduke83

So watching Shrouds twitch stream at the moment and he has a g302 shaped mouse with RGB LEDs, no info about it in his info section, would it just be a custom 302, or possibly the 303? I apologize if it has been mention already in this thread, but I didn't want to read through 20+ pages.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: marduke83



Originally Posted by *marduke83* 


> So watching Shrouds twitch stream at the moment and he has a g302 shaped mouse with RGB LEDs, no info about it in his info section, would it just be a custom 302, or possibly the 303? I apologize if it has been mention already in this thread, but I didn't want to read through 20+ pages.






I thought the G302 had RGB LEDs.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I thought the G302 had RGB LEDs.


The G302 is blue LED only. The cloud9 guys have had this new mouse or variations of it for a long time now. (n0thing let it slip just like the promoters on OCN did)


----------



## Kyube

Judging by shroud's stream, he got RGB light on his G303 (refers it to as G302+). Guess they got the drivers now.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Kyube



Originally Posted by *Kyube* 

Judging by shroud's stream, he got RGB light on his G303 (refers it to as G302+). Guess they got the drivers now.



Can someone link to the stream.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Can someone link to the stream.


----------



## Melan

Lights are pretty but I'm VERY interested in sensor and how they placed the feet.


----------



## Aventadoor

Its just a G302 with RGB. Nothing to see here


----------



## woll3

I am starting to doubt shrouds common sense.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> I am starting to doubt shrouds common sense.


----------



## JustinSane

Ohhhhh snap Shroud's rockin' it! Oh man the hype intensifies! Come on Logitech, announce this thang!

I'm hoping they announce it sometime before PAX.


----------



## Sencha

Just donate him a couple of $ and get him to spill the beans.


----------



## Melan

How many zeroes there has to be?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> How much zeroes there has to be?


I think min is $2. I'm at work at the moment. But if he's on next week I'll ask him and report back..just busy at the moment (not too busy to be on here chatting mice though huh!!?!......HUH!!?!?!)


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Just donate him a couple of $ and get him to spill the beans.


I think he knows better now. Someone asked him when it was coming out and he said something like, "You keep asking me things you know I can't talk about."


----------



## Melan

I just hope it's out soon. Tbh I'm about to buy a G300S or G402 but trying to hold my self for now.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I think he knows better now. Someone asked him when it was coming out and he said something like, "You keep asking me things you know I can't talk about."


Chances are he doesn't know himself.

Asked him about G402 he said "(it's sensor) is absolutely crazy) while he's using g100s the same sensor.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> What exactly would be the problem with that for you ? I just got a g302 to try out the shape and it seems to be a pretty good mouse. Clicks are heavenly, sensor seems fine but will even be better in g303, mousewheel is ok, cord could be better but at least it's sturdy, and without lethal kinks like SS braided cables.
> 
> I'm not convinced about the rear end though. Still cannot figure out the rationale behind that skinny ass, and don't know yet if I can or want to adjust to it.


The shape of the G302 isn't for me (like it is for many). So I wouldn't buy a $70 mouse to not use it. If the shape is great I would wait awhile after the initial release to buy it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Ohhhhh snap Shroud's rockin' it! Oh man the hype intensifies! Come on Logitech, announce this thang!
> 
> I'm hoping they announce it sometime before PAX.


I am really tired of such announcements. We already know about it. It's only irritating...


----------



## M0rb1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Chances are he doesn't know himself.
> 
> Asked him about G402 he said "(it's sensor) is absolutely crazy) while he's using g100s the same sensor.


He also said he liked the sensor in the g100s.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M0rb1d*
> 
> He also said he liked the sensor in the g100s.


As long as the cursor moves on screen when moving the mouse.


----------



## AnimalK

Anyone kind enough to provide some screenshots for those at work?


----------



## wmoftw

If they just put side buttons on the g100s, doesn't that solve almost everyones problems? I never got a bad build quality one so I can't comment on that. I know it has a speed tracking issue, but I would say that's more common for low sens players (like CS players)


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: wmoftw



Originally Posted by *wmoftw* 


> If they just put side buttons on the g100s, doesn't that solve almost everyones problems? I never got a bad build quality one so I can't comment on that. I know it has a speed tracking issue, but I would say that's more common for low sens players (like CS players)






Side buttons on a G100s would be a Ninox Aurora. I'd be really happy if Logitech did make a Logitech G100s with side buttons but as the G100s is intended to be their cheapest mouse I don't think this is likely. I thought the G100s used the AM010 now.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> Side buttons on a G100s would be a Ninox Aurora. I'd be really happy if Logitech did make a Logitech G100s with side buttons but as the G100s is intended to be their cheapest mouse I don't think this is likely. I thought the G100s used the AM010 now.


I've heard too many bad things about the Aurora. I was going to buy it initially but once I heard of the mouse1/2 issue, I didn't buy it. I don't want to have to buy a mouse to see if it's broken, to send it back to get a different one. I heard the sensor had some correction, and the build quality was meh. I recently purchased an EVGA Torq X5, I rather use that before an Aurora imo. Of course I still need to try one.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: wmoftw



Originally Posted by *wmoftw* 

I've heard too many bad things about the Aurora. I was going to buy it initially but once I heard of the mouse1/2 issue, I didn't buy it. I don't want to have to buy a mouse to see if it's broken, to send it back to get a different one. I heard the sensor had some correction, and the build quality was meh. I recently purchased an EVGA Torq X5, I rather use that before an Aurora imo. Of course I still need to try one.



I think the X5 is a better alternative to the Aurora currently if you are ok with a glossy coating.


----------



## FreeElectron

I am starting to think that this is the mouse @metal571 was testing and keeping a secret


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I am starting to think that this is the mouse @metal571 was testing and keeping a secret


I hope so. Though this board clearly doesn't agree on everything, it means one of us had direct input on it which can only be good I believe.


----------



## a_ak57

I believe by the time metal gets mice from logitech the designs are basically finalized; he and other testers are just there to give feedback for...marketing direction or something, dunno really.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I believe by the time metal gets mice from logitech the designs are basically finalized; he and other testers are just there to give feedback for...marketing direction or something, dunno really.


Likely testing for any glaring coding issues and to market the product online.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Likely testing for any glaring coding issues and to market the product online.


I was never encouraged to "market" the product, I asked specifically if it was ok to do reviews because I thought it would be interesting stuff to share. Most of the beta testers don't even post here (anymore).


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I was never encouraged to "market" the product, I asked specifically if it was ok to do reviews because I thought it would be interesting stuff to share. Most of the beta testers don't even post here (anymore).


Why did you comment on that?
Are you one of the testers







?


----------



## AnimalK

So I skipped through shroud's stream and I caught a few moments where the mouse was in full view of his face cam. The face cam view was tiny.

His mouse has a shell identical to the g302 and has multicoloured lighting.

At first I suspected it was just a custom moded g302.
The colour cycling was very rapid and the colours appeared limited. I'm not sure if that is just a result of the streaming codec having a limited colour space.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> So I skipped through shroud's stream and I caught a few moments where the mouse was in full view of his face cam. The face cam view was tiny.
> 
> His mouse has a shell identical to the g302 and has multicoloured lighting.
> 
> At first I suspected it was just a custom moded g302.
> The colour cycling was very rapid and the colours appeared limited. I'm not sure if that is just a result of the streaming codec having a limited colour space.


looks like it just quickly cycles/bounces between blue, red and green.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I think the X5 is a better alternative to the Aurora currently if you are ok with a glossy coating.


Depends...

I might be a bit biased though. I got a well functioning Aurora lol


----------



## yukino

Hey guys,

I have just registered.

Found something interesting.






I'll cancel my order for the G302 I think.. guess Logitech will tell us something soon.


----------



## Melan

lolspaceships.jpg

On the other note, hooray. 3366!


----------



## Sencha

Nice find!

Seems they have put mouse feet on the outside.

In keeping with their 90s spaceship design this one can actually travel through space









Are the outer edges more smooth then the 302? it looks that way


----------



## Brightmist

Everything discussed here I guess, I'm sold hehe


----------



## trhead

Same bad shape


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Everything discussed here I guess, I'm sold hehe


Me too!


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: yukino



Originally Posted by *yukino* 


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have just registered.
> 
> Found something interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll cancel my order for the G302 I think.. guess Logitech will tell us something soon.






There should have been some small text saying that the mouse is actually not a spaceship. 0/10 Logitech


----------



## Melan

Maybe it's a surprise for anyone who buys that. Imagine, you receive it, unbox it, plug it in and it takes off and flies away.


----------



## Aventadoor

Why do they have to make the feet so complicated?
Why not have 2-3 bigger ones, with proper thickness and rounded edges?
Rival is still the mice I got with best glide, its simply awsm


----------



## Maximillion

Well I guess all that's left is the "official" announcement at this point. We already know everything essential about the mouse at this point: It does in fact have the 3366, same shell as G302 with improved feet, RGB lighting (lol) and will retail for ~$70.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Why do they have to make the feet so complicated?
> Why not have 2-3 bigger ones, with proper thickness and rounded edges?
> Rival is still the mice I got with best glide, its simply awsm


Yeah agree on the feet. I'll probably rip them all off and config some 1.1/3.0s on there


----------



## Derp

I find it hilarious that people used the term space ship design to describe their recently released mice and Logitech decided to release a video showing their new mouse as an actual spaceship with pretty lights.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Well I guess all that's left is the "official" announcement at this point. We already know everything essential about the mouse at this point: It does in fact have the 3366, same shell as G302 with improved feet, RGB lighting (lol) and will retail for ~$70.


Yeah, not much left to announce.


----------



## Melan

I guess I'll still replace feet with MX500 hyperglides.


----------



## yukino

I'm still hyped tho :> I like it.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Well I guess all that's left is the "official" announcement at this point. We already know everything essential about the mouse at this point: It does in fact have the 3366, same shell as G302 with improved feet, RGB lighting (lol) and will retail for ~$70.


What do you think about the shape?


----------



## Aventadoor

They should just have made their own take on sensei.
Less protruded sides, more curved top and so on.

But I guess nobody wants to make the best shape on the market.


----------



## royalkilla408

Seems like a day one purchase for me! I'm liking it! Can't wait! Everything I pretty much wanted compare to my 502. Lighter, more LED colors, and 3366! Super hyped!


----------



## JustinSane

Hahaha who is donating to Shroud right now asking questions? You're hilarious!


----------



## iceskeleton

Confirmed day1 for me. 3366 is too good to pass up


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Hahaha who is donating to Shroud right now asking questions? You're hilarious!


so...answer?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I find it hilarious that people used the term space ship design to describe their recently released mice and Logitech decided to release a video showing their new mouse as an actual spaceship with pretty lights.
> Yeah, not much left to announce.


^ This.
I couldn't believe my eyes, they really went for space ship advertisement, OH MY GOD....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Well I guess all that's left is the "official" announcement at this point. We already know everything essential about the mouse at this point: It does in fact have the 3366, same shell as G302 with improved feet, RGB lighting (lol) and will retail for ~$70.


So, considering I'm fine with a 400 DPI step and 1,5m/s ... this mouse is worse in shape,size,weight to a 10+ year old MS WMO and the only benefit of it would be the mouse buttons.

If the price isn't too high I might get one for testing, especially interested how the 3366 performs on the Artisan Raiden. Nearly every optical sensor (not the MLT04 though) has problems with that surface. I'm a bit worried about the weight though. G100S with 70gr feels identical in weight to a 80gr WMO, because the G100S is smaller. The G303 is as small and has even more weight to it.


----------



## Melan

Why would anyone change a mouse they always used and which fits them perfectly for anything else?


----------



## yukino

I guess it's everything for marketing.. ppl see their favorite pro players with that brand new mice and they want the same mice for their sick plays.


----------



## thumus

Not sure if this has been mentioned here before, but Shroud from Cloud9 has it and is using it. Link to his twitch:


----------



## Ihateallmice

simply can't use g302 in CSGO because there are times where I hit the max speed and die because of it. even if it only happens 1 out of 100 times, that 1 time will get me killed and no mouse should have that effect. cable was never a problem, but I'm not complaining about getting a better one. balance issues due to bad mousefeet placement was definitely the biggest issue after the malfunction speed. with this version they have fixed everything I had issues with, so I will definitely pick it up on release. as for the shape - I never had to get used to it. it felt great from the start, so it sucks that some people are having such big problems with it. hopefully their next release will be another 3366 with a shape more people prefer. for me however this should be perfect.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Hahaha who is donating to Shroud right now asking questions? You're hilarious!


LOL what are they asking?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Why would anyone change a mouse they always used and which fits them perfectly for anything else?


I don't know, but are you referring to my previous post? If so, I didn't always use the WMO. I bought one 2 years ago and haven't used it for like half a year sometime in 2014 because I was in the hands of Zowie (AM,FK13,FK1,..) and used many other mice besides (kana,sensei,rival,g100s,g402,....). Before all of that I used MX510 and some others I don't recall all though. So I'm barely one who used a WMO for his entire life and is therefore biased. It's just a damn fine shape that imho isn't matched by anything else I held in hands.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What do you think about the shape?


Never used/held a 302 so I dunno. Doesn't look bad to me though. I have a pretty adaptive grip.


----------



## AnimalK

Well that video settles it.

I am one of those who loves the g302 shape. I'm glad they added feet on either side. The shape I am sure is unchanged from the g302.

Day 1 purchase for me.


----------



## Kemuri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Well that video settles it.
> 
> I am one of those who loves the g302 shape. I'm glad they added feet on either side. The shape I am sure is unchanged from the g302.
> 
> Day 1 purchase for me.


same


----------



## Nivity

No buy for me :/
Bought the G302 TWICE and the shape just murdered my hand no matter how much I tried.
Worst shaped mouse in 20 years for me, the only worse mouse would be the boomslang









I will just keep waiting for the true Logitech G3 successor, which will never come it seems


----------



## CeeSA

did you tried your G302 w/o the sidepanels?


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I will just keep waiting for the true Logitech G3 successor, which will never come it seems


As an G3 fan I must say I'm coming around to the g302 shape after a few days of play. Not touching the but of the mouse with the base of my hand does feel weird and empty, but I don't think it has much influence on movement.

If anything, it not touching gives more control in moving the mouse with your fingers, since it won't pivot around where mouse but and hand meet.


----------



## yukino

http://gaming.logitech.com/g303

they probably doing something atm.. looks different for a second.







HYPE? xD


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Not touching the but of the mouse with the base of my hand does feel weird and empty, but I don't think it has much influence on movement.


Less stability.


----------



## Dreyka

It will be interesting to see what perception people have of the PMW-3366 now that it is in a lighter mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Likely testing for any glaring coding issues and to market the product online.


I don't know about the other guys, but I HATE marketing. Logitech has been one of those companies that has been very transparent and truthful about the actual capabilities and design of their mice recently, especially relative to other brands. Think about it.

My personal mouse is still the Avior 7000, but that doesn't mean I can't give unbiased opinions on other models. For some reason you guys seem to equate "tester for company X" to "EVERY OPINION THIS PERSON HAS IS TOTAL GARBAGE."


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> did you tried your G302 w/o the sidepanels?


Did not, did not wanna ghetto it either since I returned it twice after few days of usage both times.


----------



## a_ak57

I'm dying laughing at the spaceship advertising. Though I'm still salty I spent money on a 302 not long ago when this was coming up and fixes the wobble I've had issues with never mind the better sensor.


----------



## Derp

After watching the video again it appears as if the G303 is headed towards earth which means that it came from another planet. The aliens who developed this masterpiece most likely have very different hands than humans. This explains the strange shape.


----------



## Aventadoor

And like aliens do, there will pop an baby alien out of the mice and kill you!


----------



## detto87

So, to use the 3366 sensor we have 2 choices now, hurray!
We have a big ass tank spaceship that's heavy as .... and slow to move around let alone lift up, AND a G302 shape which digs oh so beautifully into the hand that it hurts. with no butt at all to help that shaky grip with some stability.

It can only go uphill from here, but modern gaming companies will continue to amaze me this year with weird mice that always lack in some areas. Man, I'm frustrated, really. It's so stupid.


----------



## Brightmist

I do not understand people complaining about shape tbh. There are enough average or bigger than average sized shells using good sensors like 3988 and 3310.
I like that there's a tight assed lightweight mouse with a decent sensor and side buttons. I honestly don't think people designing this targeted palm grip users


----------



## a_ak57

The complaints aren't from palm users upset that there's another smaller mouse on the market, the complaints are from people who would actually like the shape if there were one or two things different about it. Like if the sides were straighter and the butt was wider, the 303 would be close enough to be the G9X replacement I've been waiting for. Heck, even if just the sides were straighter I'd probably be a sucker and buy the 303.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I do not understand people complaining about shape tbh. There are enough average or bigger than average sized shells using good sensors like 3988 and 3310.
> I like that there's a tight assed lightweight mouse with a decent sensor and side buttons. I honestly don't think people designing this targeted palm grip users


I havent tried a G302 so I cant comment on the shape.
But there's SO many who want a mice similar to Sensei, and Sensei is pretty much perfect mix. Its big enough so that people with avarageish hand size can palm, yet its small enough to fingertip


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I havent tried a G302 so I cant comment on the shape.
> But there's SO many who want a mice similar to Sensei, and Sensei is pretty much perfect mix. Its big enough so that people with avarageish hand size can palm, yet its small enough to fingertip


Then why don't you just look at something from the brands that try to copy the original Microsoft shapes? Aren't there enough mice like that? There's Steelseries and Zowie at least.

Meanwhile, Logitech always used their own shapes and never anything that's like the original Microsoft stuff. They were always like that. This is from the very beginning in MS-DOS times. It is now over twenty years of never using anything that feels like the old Microsoft shapes in the hand.


----------



## Aventadoor

Cause they are ****.


----------



## Abacus1234

Definitely am also a fan of the g302 shape. To me it feels perfect. The way I hold the mouse, I don't notice the "skinny butt" at all. The angle in the middle of the mouse perfectly contours to the way my thumb naturally wants to grip the mouse. Sorry to everyone who wanted a Deathadder or WMO shape or something, but those are not the only good shapes.

The EVGA X5 literally just came out, with a much more standard shape. Then there is the Zowie EC series, or a Deathadder. Or a Gladius, or Rival. So many shapes with sensors which are for all intents and purposes going to work just the same for almost anyone. There is so much choice on the market right now.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abacus1234*
> 
> Definitely am also a fan of the g302 shape. To me it feels perfect. The way I hold the mouse, I don't notice the "skinny butt" at all. The angle in the middle of the mouse perfectly contours to the way my thumb naturally wants to grip the mouse. Sorry to everyone who wanted a Deathadder or WMO shape or something, but those are not the only good shapes.
> 
> The EVGA X5 literally just came out, with a much more standard shape. Then there is the Zowie EC series, or a Deathadder. Or a Gladius, or Rival. So many shapes with sensors which are for all intents and purposes going to work just the same for almost anyone. There is so much choice on the market right now.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> The complaints aren't from palm users upset that there's another smaller mouse on the market, the complaints are from people who would actually like the shape if there were one or two things different about it. Like if the sides were straighter and the butt was wider, the 303 would be close enough to be the G9X replacement I've been waiting for. Heck, even if just the sides were straighter I'd probably be a sucker and buy the 303.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I do not understand people complaining about shape tbh. There are enough average or bigger than average sized shells using good sensors like 3988 and 3310.
> I like that there's a tight assed lightweight mouse with a decent sensor and side buttons. I honestly don't think people designing this targeted palm grip users


Then you need to actually read the G302 thread.
People are NOT complaining because they want a bigger or heavier mouse.

People wanted a more normal ambidextrous shape, not the weird spaceship shaped edges and butt.
People LOVED the MX300,G1 etc shape for a reason.

All most people wanted was a successor with sidebuttons on a similar normal shaped ambi mouse.
They did not get that at all, not even CLOSE.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> LOL what are they asking?


They asked about the cord and he ignored them. Then they donated again and said, "Are you ignoring my questions because you and n0thing got in trouble for leaking info?" He just shook his head lol.


----------



## Brightmist

mx300 shape kinda derived from Pilot Optical and I feel they're kinda returning back to it with g302/303 but well, a mx300 rehash with side buttons sure might be nice.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> lol*spaceships*.jpg


Here is me walking out the ro...
















Okay, I'm back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I find it hilarious that people used the term space ship design to describe their recently released mice and Logitech decided to release a video showing their new mouse as an actual spaceship with pretty lights.


I think I started this spaceship talk originally. So for me it was funny to see the advert, yet at the same time irritating. I don't know if their intention was to be funny or they are actually serious. Considering who designs Logitech mice, I think they were being 100% serious when they made this advert. I guess they live in another world...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I don't know about the other guys, but I HATE marketing. Logitech has been one of those companies that has been very transparent and truthful about the actual capabilities and design of their mice recently, especially relative to other brands. Think about it.
> 
> My personal mouse is still the Avior 7000, but that doesn't mean I can't give unbiased opinions on other models. For some reason you guys seem to equate "tester for company X" to "EVERY OPINION THIS PERSON HAS IS TOTAL GARBAGE."


From what I seen over many years "testers" tend to be closer to a marketing gimmick than actual testers. Those that do test the products are not very good at spotting issues. Also "testers" tend to not want to list negatives, rather they just say what is good about the product. Most of the straightforward and honest opinions are not from "testers."


----------



## Melan

Aww, vid got taken down


----------



## Sencha

Its OK its on youtube now


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Its OK its on youtube now


Logitech straight owned it.







GG

Not cool Logitech, not cool.


----------



## Melan

Not like you liked it anyway


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Not like you liked it anyway


It was a good work out for my eyes.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Never used/held a 302 so I dunno. Doesn't look bad to me though. I have a pretty adaptive grip.


The back of this mouse is skinny!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I don't know about the other guys, but I HATE marketing. Logitech has been one of those companies that has been very transparent and truthful about the actual capabilities and design of their mice recently, especially relative to other brands. Think about it.
> 
> My personal mouse is still the Avior 7000, but that doesn't mean I can't give unbiased opinions on other models. For some reason you guys seem to equate "tester for company X" to "EVERY OPINION THIS PERSON HAS IS TOTAL GARBAGE."


What do you think about the mouse?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What do you think about the mouse?


I've already said I have no comment. Wait for the official announcement.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I do not understand people complaining about shape tbh


Don't forget where you're posting.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I do not understand people complaining about shape tbh.


it's called 'it doesn't fit in my hand'

signed,

being comfortable.


----------



## pox02

i dont care of the shape i only care on performance i was thinking its new model of PMW3366DM-VWOU? sensor


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I've already said I have no comment. Wait for the official announcement.


So, This is the mouse you have been testing


----------



## donutvampire

Can someone re-up the video to an unlisted private video on youtube so logitech cant snff it?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> Can someone re-up the video to an unlisted private video on youtube so logitech cant snff it?


The video went something like: spaceship! disco! lazers! vroom! woooooosh! boom!


----------



## donutvampire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The video went something like: spaceship! disco! lazers! vroom! woooooosh! boom!


ok nvm dont need it


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I do not understand people complaining about shape tbh.


I can't figure it out either, it fits my hand just great!


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: donutvampire



Originally Posted by *donutvampire* 


> Can someone re-up the video to an unlisted private video on youtube so logitech cant snff it?






There really isn't anything of interest in the video. It just confirms the PMW-3366 sensor, mouse feet on the edges and RGB lighting. There is no side buttons on the right hand side which is the same as the G302. We don't know anything about the cable yet


----------



## exitone

A logitech employee is probably reading this thread so it's not really possible to upload the video LOL

The video was up for like 10 hours and it got taken down like 30mins after it got posted on this thread...


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> A logitech employee is probably reading this thread so it's not really possible to upload the video LOL
> 
> The video was up for like 10 hours and it got taken down like 30mins after it got posted on this thread...


Not surprised given several of their beta testers participate in this forum. I don't blame them either. Good things are ready when they are ready.


----------



## Forma

yep, no side buttons on the right means it's another ambidextrous mouse left-handers can't use (what is the point logitech?). It's starting to annoy me that they don't make any decent mouse left handers can use. G100 is nice and all, but it's got build quality issues and no side buttons at all. G300s is just plain stupid. Was hoping something G302 level would finally come with side buttons on the right, but nope







And also, something less than 80g...


----------



## munchzilla

any info about weight on this one yet?
same as G302?


----------



## FreeElectron

It is confirmed 12000 dpi , not 3366
It is possible to be the 3366.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> any info about weight on this one yet?
> same as G302?


There's no info about that.

You should probably expect something very similar to the G302. In that video that was linked, it looked like the same shape (except for two tiny extra feet). In the G302, there's nothing on the inside that looks like it can be left out. There's no metal weight like on the G100s for example, so no obvious way to reduce the weight. I'm a bit worried that the weight might actually go up a little if the 3366 sensor needs some extra parts to work, or if the RGB lighting needs extra parts.


----------



## detto87

AM010 with 12k DPI would be the worst let down.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AM010 with 12k DPI would be the worst let down.


lol
or maybe a new sensor
or a modified 3366.
Who knows


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The video went something like: spaceship! disco! lazers! vroom! woooooosh! boom!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> A logitech employee is probably reading this thread so it's not really possible to upload the video LOL
> 
> The video was up for like 10 hours and it got taken down like 30mins after it got posted on this thread...


Quote:


> _"This forum has a real *center-of-the-universe* complex going on."_ --SmashTV


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> There's no info about that.
> 
> You should probably expect something very similar to the G302. In that video that was linked, it looked like the same shape (except for two tiny extra feet). In the G302, there's nothing on the inside that looks like it can be left out. There's no metal weight like on the G100s for example, so no obvious way to reduce the weight. I'm a bit worried that the weight might actually go up a little if the 3366 sensor needs some extra parts to work, or if the RGB lighting needs extra parts.


exactly my thoughts. I have the G302 right now, and am wondeing if it's worth the upgrade.
I really want to see the new feet too, but the video has been taken down. and I can't find it via google either.
I don't have the wobble problem that most of you guys seem to have, so I don't know if adding new feet are going to help much for me.
but if the sensor is that much better... maybe... I just can't imagine how it would be







very limited time spent with the G502 for me.


----------



## yukino

Haha guys, pls stop writing me Private Messages about the Video.









Don't have it sadly.. I was thinking about downloading it, but I did not.. :O


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*


hmm
Actually this forum is one of the important mouse forums.

And is google's top result.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> hmm
> Actually this forum is one of the important mouse forums.
> 
> And is google's top result.


If you saw the video and read this thread you would understand my "inside" joke.

The video was a G303 in outer space. SmashTV said people on this forum have a "center of the universe complex." Consequently the joke was born.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you saw the video and read this thread you would understand my "inside" joke.
> 
> The video was a G303 in outer space. SmashTV said people on this forum have a "center of the universe complex." Consequently the joke was born.


lol that's a good one. Very applicable.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> hmm
> Actually this forum is one of the important mouse forums.
> 
> And is google's top result.


Google search results are personalized


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Google search results are personalized


I tried three different browsers where it's two different Google accounts and one without any account logged in, and every time it looked pretty similar to what's in those screenshots.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> hmm
> Actually this forum is one of the important mouse forums.
> 
> And is google's top result.


Because I decide to put it here.

It will be filled with other site if no one knows about the g303


----------



## royalkilla408

Come on Logitech. Announce the mouse officially already!


----------



## exitone

I downloaded the video but copyright XD


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you saw the video and read this thread you would understand my "inside" joke.
> 
> The video was a G303 in outer space. SmashTV said people on this forum have a "center of the universe complex." Consequently the joke was born.


oh..








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Google search results are personalized


The search results are using
1- Private mode firefox (no cookies no history)
2- Google NCR (No Country Redirect) so, it was not affected by my current country.


----------



## Dylan Nails

what was wrong with 302 feet to have to replace it?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> what was wrong with 302 feet to have to replace it?


Lack of balance of left and right


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> yep, no side buttons on the right means it's another ambidextrous mouse left-handers can't use (what is the point logitech?). It's starting to annoy me that they don't make any decent mouse left handers can use. G100 is nice and all, but it's got build quality issues and no side buttons at all. G300s is just plain stupid. Was hoping something G302 level would finally come with side buttons on the right, but nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also, something less than 80g...


you dont need side buttons


----------



## munchzilla

would you guys say that the 3366 here is a huge upgrade to the G302 sensor?
I use a sensitivity of 15 inches per 360, at 800dpi, and I am not going to change this.

it's so tempting having a "no holds barred" sensor but if it's not really a noticeable upgrade...
the G302 sure is good, so I can't really figure out what is better. I don't hit the max speed when gaming normally, but the frame rate and all that jifferjaffer seems interesting.


----------



## exitone

screenshot of mousefeet: http://i.imgur.com/KZic71G.png


----------



## bkchun

LOL didn't think anyone would see my donations to shroud

can anyone confirm a lighter cord? braided or not..


----------



## Forma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> you dont need side buttons


i want them, is that ok by you? k thanks.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> screenshot of mousefeet


Be saving that video of aliens invading Earth!?

They wouldn't have needed to add those feet if the rear wasn't shaped like an arrow. If the rear was rounder they would have more room for the rear feet.

It's always funny when Logitech makes simple oversights that anyone could see if they just took a second to check. What do all these "testers" spend their time on? Are they like Shroud (from Cloud 9) who spends most of his day focusing purely on playing rather than testing? I doubt Shroud is a "tester" because that would be a kick to the testicles.

I wanted to try the G402 with the older firmware to see if if it would malfunction with my play style when doing Y axis movements. Just to see if that oversight was on the engineers rather than the testers.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bkchun*
> 
> LOL didn't think anyone would see my donations to shroud
> 
> can anyone confirm a lighter cord? braided or not..


Hahaha those donations were awesome. I think n0thing has said that it's a braided cable on the new mouse, but nothing is official yet.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Be saving that video of aliens invading Earth!?
> 
> They wouldn't have needed to add those feet if the rear wasn't shaped like an arrow. If the rear was rounder they would have more room for the rear feet.
> 
> It's always funny when Logitech makes simple oversights that anyone could see if they just took a second to check. What do all these "testers" spend their time on? Are they like Shroud (from Cloud 9) who spends most of his day focusing purely on playing rather than testing? I doubt Shroud is a "tester" because that would be a kick to the testicles.


G302 is more likely one of the rushed mouse, Logitech did mention one of their mouse scraped during g402 period and considering g302 is registered with g402 and DoTA2, LoL championship it's safe to assume G302 is the hastely built mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I wanted to try the G402 with the older firmware to see if if it would malfunction with my play style when doing Y axis movements. Just to see if that oversight was on the engineers rather than the testers.


It will be funny if they actually found it, because no people would swipe y axis above 2.7m/s


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> i want them, is that ok by you? k thanks.


you said its unusable by left handers which isnt true, all u need is left click, right click, and mouse wheel


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> you said its unusable by left handers which isnt true, all u need is left click, right click, and mouse wheel


The button does get in the way when you grip it, namely ring finger.

It's ambidextrous for right hand only.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> yep, no side buttons on the right means it's another ambidextrous mouse left-handers can't use (what is the point logitech?). It's starting to annoy me that they don't make any decent mouse left handers can use. G100 is nice and all, but it's got build quality issues and no side buttons at all. G300s is just plain stupid. Was hoping something G302 level would finally come with side buttons on the right, but nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also, something less than 80g...
> 
> 
> 
> you dont need side buttons
Click to expand...

Good thing you know what everyone needs








Would rather use a smaller ambi without any sidebuttons If I were a leftie as well.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Good thing you know what everyone needs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would rather use a smaller ambi without any sidebuttons If I were a leftie as well.


hmm
Personally i like to have two side buttons (i map them for UP and Down arrow keys for jet gameplay in BF) and i like the middle scroll wheel's ability to scroll left and right like in the G502 and i am starting to like the G502 free scroll mode a looooot


----------



## TheGMT

I very, very rarely max out the G302, so I'm in a similar boat. I don't have a problem with the feet, and even the cable has become a non-issue over time. With that kind of sens, I would stick with the G302. G302 AM10 feels so snappy and responsive anyway.


----------



## Nivity

Never had a problem with G302 maxing out.
But im only 35-38cm/360 so mid sens player.


----------



## Melan

Neither did I at 60cm/360.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> you said its unusable by left handers which isnt true, all u need is left click, right click, and mouse wheel


Prime example of the **** posting. Round of applause everyone.


----------



## yukino

I hope they announce it this week.. would be rly cool :>


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I hope they announce it this week.. would be rly cool :>


It's definitely coming VERY soon. I dunno the legitimacy of the retailer "macmall" but they have it listed already for $86.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It's definitely coming VERY soon. I dunno the legitimacy of the retailer "macmall" but they have it listed already for $86.


"G303 Daedalus Apex Gmg Mse

by LOGITECH

Our Price: $66.21"

So idk actually..







we will see.


----------



## Aventadoor

At that price it better me 3366.


----------



## Dreyka

I think it is absolutely awful that Logitech couldn't put side buttons on the right hand side to make it more friendly to left-handed. Out of their entire lineup only the G100s and G300s could be considered ambidextrous.


----------



## Brightmist

I like that they're not catering to lefties. The side buttons on the far side of the ambidextrous mice were always dreadful for me.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> At that price it better me 3366.


It better not have the same edges at the sides like the G302 does. I would love the G303 if it was shaped like the G302 just with more rounded edges and with 3366 sensor.


----------



## yukino

Could you order me some?









It's hilarious how different the prices are..


----------



## Nilizum

Lame. Same alien shape.

amazon.de profile http://www.amazon.de/Logitech-910-004383-G303-Daedalus-Apex-Gaming-schwarz/dp/B00U001J4G/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1425245414&sr=8-11&keywords=logitech+g303


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> It better not have the same edges at the sides like the G302 does. I would love the G303 if it was shaped like the G302 just with more rounded edges and with 3366 sensor.


It seems it really is the exact same shape. It started showing up on amazon.de (the Amazon website for Germany) and there's no changes to the shape in the pictures they are using for the product. I also don't think they are reusing pictures of the G302 because the picture for the bottom has those two added feet and a "G303" text on the label, so the pictures you can see there is really the G303.


----------



## Nilizum

$78.22 USD. wat.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> $78.22 USD. wat.


19% taxes dude

$78.22 / 119% = $65.73 without tax


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It seems it really is the exact same shape. It started showing up on amazon.de (the Amazon website for Germany) and there's no changes to the shape in the pictures they are using for the product. I also don't think they are reusing pictures of the G302 because the picture for the bottom has those two added feet and a "G303" text on the label, so the pictures you can see there is really the G303.


Just checked it out and *it does have a braided cable!* Woot woot! So excited. Hopefully we can pre-order this week.


----------



## Hyster

Seems to have a braided cable according to the amazon images.


----------



## yukino

Yey!

Dunno if I should it order now.. hmm.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Just checked it out and *it does have a braided cable!* Woot woot! So excited. Hopefully we can pre-order this week.


woop, insta-buy from me.


----------



## munchzilla

new cable... ****, I'm going to have to get one.

I can probably justify it (wrongfully) by pretending I need a new laptop mouse and use the G302 as that...


----------



## popups

What I see here is Logitech trying to justify the large price increase of a G302 with a 3366 by adding a RGB LED instead and some braid on the cable.

I no longer get suckered into buying mice because of a cheap LED that is a different color or changes color. I am not 14 anymore, that doesn't work on me.

I was never into braided cables because I didn't fall into the trend of fancy computer cables. A mouse is a tool for me, not a fashion statement.

Is the price for the 3366 worth what they are asking? Don't forget the 3988 mice that flooded the market.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Just checked it out and *it does have a braided cable!* Woot woot! So excited. Hopefully we can pre-order this week.


Why do you like braided cables? What is your logic?

I dislike braided cables because they are a hindrance and a gimmick. If the cable is great, adding braided nylon isn't going to make it better, it's just adding some more weight and friction.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What I see here is Logitech trying to justify the large price increase (due to utilizing the 3366) by adding a RGB LED instead and some braid to the cable.
> 
> I no longer get suckered into buying mice because of a cheap LED that is a different color or changes color. I am not 14 anymore, that doesn't work on me.
> 
> I was never into braided cables because I didn't fall into the trend of fancy computer cables. A mouse is a tool for me, not a fashion statement.
> 
> Is the price for the 3366 worth what they are asking? Don't forget the 3988 mice that flooded the market.
> Why do you like braided cables? What is your logic?
> 
> I dislike braided cables because they are a hindrance and a gimmick. If the cable is great, adding braided nylon isn't going to make it better, it's just adding some more weight and friction.


while I agree with you 99% here, it CAN'T possibly be worse than the G302 cable right?








I do happen to like nice looking cables though, and I think since we have the possibility to care about aesthetics for our computer things that we love and use so much... I see nothing wrong with that


----------



## bkchun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What I see here is Logitech trying to justify the large price increase for utilizing the 3366 by adding a RGB LED instead and some braid to the cable.
> 
> I no longer get suckered into buying mice because of a cheap LED that is a different color or changes color. I am not 14 anymore, that doesn't work on me.
> 
> I was never into braided cables because I didn't fall into the trend of fancy computer cables. A mouse is a tool for me, not a fashion statement.
> 
> Is the price for the 3366 worth what they are asking? Don't forget the 3988 mice that flooded the market.
> Why do you like braided cables? What is your logic?
> 
> I dislike braided cables because they are a hindrance and a gimmick. If the cable is great, adding braided nylon isn't going to make it better, it's just adding some more weight and friction.


it's not so much that we like braided cords; i'd argue that a majority of us celebrating over a braided cord are just celebrating that it's most likely the cord off the g502 instead of the g302, which is an abomination

to your other argument, i don't think there's an objectively correct answer
i like the g302 shape, despite common complaints, and the rest of the updates mean the g303 would be the first mouse i would be purchasing that really excels in every important aspect for me
it's definitely worth it for me; there are no similarly performing substitutes at that price range for me, if at all
i understand your disdain for the RGB lighting marketing tactic, but there are enough aspects of the mouse being touched upon for me to look past it


----------



## Dreyka

*Dimensions: 116mm x 66mm x 38mm*

Same size and shape as G302.


----------



## AnimalK

The first image on the amazon link shows a non-braided cable but the rest appear to be photoshoped in. I have no preference to braided or not. Ultimately it must simply just not interfere with my movements.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I do happen to like nice looking cables though, and I think since we have the possibility to care about aesthetics for our computer things that we love and use so much... I see nothing wrong with that


I look at "gaming" products as tools intended for competition. Anything that strays from that is an unnecessary gimmick. LEDs and braided cables can be distracting when you compete.

I guess there should be a different word to describe certain "gaming" products.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bkchun*
> 
> it's not so much that we like braided cords; i'd argue that a majority of us celebrating over a braided cord are just celebrating that it's most likely the cord off the g502 instead of the g302, which is an abomination
> 
> to your other argument, i don't think there's an objectively correct answer
> i like the g302 shape, despite common complaints, and the rest of the updates mean the g303 would be the first mouse i would be purchasing that really excels in every important aspect for me
> it's definitely worth it for me; there are no similarly performing substitutes at that price range for me, if at all
> i understand your disdain for the RGB lighting marketing tactic, but there are enough aspects of the mouse being touched upon for me to look past it


The only major improvement of the G303 over the G302 is the sensor. The cable and bottom shell could have easily been corrected in later batches of the G302.

Is the 3366 worth the price if you can still buy a G302? Does the G302 die a slow death like the Zowie AM?


----------



## Derp

Of course it's not very accurate based on those images but the cable still looks decently thick. Thicker than the G502's cable. I hope they didn't just put some braiding over the top of the awful original cable.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Is the price for the 3366 worth what they are asking? Don't forget the 3988 mice that flooded the market.
> Why do you like braided cables? What is your logic?


I personally dont like braided cables. However, I hate the G302's cable. I dont think it can get worse, so I enjoy the new cable.

To be honest, the Deathadder cable is the one I had the least problems with so far. I liked the G400's cable too, which is not braided, extremelyyyy thin, but too fragile.

I wish all cables could be like the G400, but without being prone to breaking.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why do you like braided cables? What is your logic?
> 
> I dislike braided cables because they are a hindrance and a gimmick. If the cable is great, adding braided nylon isn't going to make it better, it's just adding some more weight and friction.


I've never had a problem with braided cables on my DeathAdders. When I switched over to the G402/302 the cable was much thicker/stiffer/heavier. I'm hoping the braided cable will make it lighter/less resistant when swiping.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 

I look at "gaming" products as tools intended for competition. Anything that strays from that is an unnecessary gimmick. LEDs and braided cables can be distracting when you compete.

I guess there should be a different word to describe certain "gaming" products.



We get it and so does Logitech. You know the reason why there is a braided cable just as I do. Buy it or don't buy it because Logitech isn't going to change anything. I'd rather have a decent braided cable over the abomination of a rubber cable on the G302 and G402.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> We get it and so does Logitech. You know the reason why there is a braided cable just as I do. Buy it or don't buy it because Logitech isn't going to change anything. I'd rather have a decent braided cable over the abomination of a rubber cable on the G302 and G402.


Maybe they are giving you a braided G302 cable.

My intention is to point out the price versus the actual offering. The cable and LED is irrelevant because it could have been changed in later batches of the G302.


----------



## Longasc

What else do you need to compete than the G302 or G303. To be uber competitive disable the lighting.









The shape makes you hold it in a way that is very beneficial to precise mouse movements. Just get used to it, you won't regret it. Given that I already have no problem with the G302 cable I probably won't have any with the G303's either. But I agree that I don't need a textile cover for cables, it's indeed a gimmick like colorful lighting or golden colored USB plugs on some mice.

Regarding "Gaming", the G303 is much more made for gaming than the whole list of mice released so far as gaming mice. Shape, buttons, wheel and now they even addressed the cable and sensor and also added two more mouse feet left and right to avoid a left/right tilting, not entirely necessary IMO, but well.

When ever did feedback for a mouse translate so directly into the improved product as for the G303. Who knows, maybe we will see a successor with a differently rounded arse end in the next years. I think this shape has more future and potential than the G402/502 shape.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I'm hoping the braided cable will make it lighter/less resistant when swiping.


If this cable is less resistant then it has nothing to do with the braiding. Most people use a cloth pad and the braiding on the cable can snag on it and fray which isn't something you have to worry about with a normal cable. It's just a stupid gimmick similar to the cancer that is the RGB LED which has been successfully growing and spreading to pretty much all peripherals from all companies from the last year and a half. The pretty lights can be disabled without voiding your warranty though so it wouldn't bother me as much.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I look at "gaming" products as tools intended for competition. Anything that strays from that is an unnecessary gimmick. LEDs and braided cables can be distracting when you compete.
> 
> I guess there should be a different word to describe certain "gaming" products.
> The only major improvement of the G303 over the G302 is the sensor. The cable and bottom shell could have easily been corrected in later batches of the G302.
> 
> Is the 3366 worth the price if you can still buy a G302? Does the G302 die a slow death like the Zowie AM?


well, I have the LEDs turned off - so that part to me is unnecessary as well.








I have had good experiences with braided cables when gaming, and I've competed in CS 1.6 on a very high level.
but as always, YMMV, and if the braid does come undone, it can get stuck on the edge of some cloth pads.


----------



## MasterBash

Like Derp said... This is why I dont like braided cables. However, the Deathadder cable was simply the best for me, but its not because of the braiding.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It's just a stupid gimmick similar to the cancer that is the RGB LED which has been successfully growing and spreading to pretty much all peripherals from all companies from the last year and a half. The pretty lights can be disabled without voiding your warranty though so it wouldn't bother me as much.


Do you notice how RGB LED products tend to have a large price increase?


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups






> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe they are giving you a braided G302 cable.
> 
> My intention is to point out the price versus the actual offering. The cable and LED is irrelevant because it could have been changed in later batches of the G302.






I'll break it down for you. This forum wouldn't even account for 1% of the sales of Logitech gaming mice. We both know the reason why the G303 and G502 have a braided cable and that is because it is a feature the average gamer wants and associates with premium gaming mice. It means if you want to get the average gamer to buy your $70 mouse then it better have a braided cable because that is a "feature" the cheaper G402/G302 mice don't have. We could complain all day and Logitech won't change that cable because that cable will contribute to more sales than the whole of this forum. If that is a problem for you then either don't buy it or open it up and replace the cable yourself.

The G303 is expensive. It isn't going to stop being expensive regardless of what the people here think. It sits at the top of the feature list with a 12000 DPI sensor and Logitech would obviously charge accordingly because to the average gamer they think they are buying the best mouse in the world because it is 12000 DPI and that is higher than any other mice.

As for LEDs I don't care because they can be turned off (unless you bought Zowie EC1/2 lol). The cost of RGB LEDs relative to blue LEDs will be insignificant but we all know how much the average gamer will pay just to have their "battlestation" light up in the same color.

At the end of the day Logitech made the decisions they did for obvious reasons. You may not like those decisions but they came to them with clear reason.


----------



## bkchun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Of course it's not very accurate based on those images but the cable still looks decently thick. Thicker than the G502's cable. I hope they didn't just put some braiding over the top of the awful original cable.


looks identical to the g502 to me
could be wrong though
would be a huge letdown if it was just a braided g302 cord


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bkchun*
> 
> looks identical to the g502 to me
> could be wrong though
> would be a huge letdown if it was just a braided g302 cord


I will cry and laugh if it is...
but I think Logitech are smart enough to realize just how terrible the cable of the G302 is


----------



## bkchun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I will cry and laugh if it is...
> but I think Logitech are smart enough to realize just how terrible the cable of the G302 is


i'm optimistic as well
i did some comparisons with original g302 pictures and they look about the same thickness; but the g303 cord is braided so i'll make the assumption that the underlying cord is at least a little lighter and smaller


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: bkchun



Originally Posted by *bkchun* 


> looks identical to the g502 to me
> could be wrong though
> would be a huge letdown if it was just a braided g302 cord






Will almost certainly be the same cable as the G502.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I'll break it down for you. This forum wouldn't even account for 1% of the sales of Logitech gaming mice. We both know the reason why the G303 and G502 have a braided cable and that is because it is a feature the average gamer wants and associates with premium gaming mice. It means if you want to get the average gamer to buy your $70 mouse then it better have a braided cable because that is a "feature" the cheaper G402/G302 mice don't have. We could complain all day and Logitech won't change that cable because that cable will contribute to more sales than the whole of this forum. If that is a problem for you then either don't buy it or open it up and replace the cable yourself.
> 
> The G303 is expensive. It isn't going to stop being expensive regardless of what the people here think. It sits at the top of the feature list with a 12000 DPI sensor and Logitech would obviously charge accordingly because to the average gamer they think they are buying the best mouse in the world because it is 12000 DPI and that is higher than any other mice.
> 
> As for LEDs I don't care because they can be turned off (unless you bought Zowie EC1/2 lol). The cost of RGB LEDs relative to blue LEDs will be insignificant but we all know how much the average gamer will pay just to have their "battlestation" light up in the same color.
> 
> At the end of the day Logitech made the decisions they did for obvious reasons. You may not like those decisions but they came to them with clear reason.


Funny how the Rival and DeathAdder changed prices...

I already said the braid and LED is irrelevant to my ultimate question of the value over the G302. Remember the G303 uses some of the same molds of the G302.

Want many features at high prices buy a G502.


----------



## munchzilla

do you guys remember how long time it was between seeing G302 in stores and actually being sold...?
I'm scared it will be the same for this one! my mouse habit needs a fix.


----------



## Dylan Nails

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I'll break it down for you. This forum wouldn't even account for 1% of the sales of Logitech gaming mice. We both know the reason why the G303 and G502 have a braided cable and that is because it is a feature the average gamer wants and associates with premium gaming mice. It means if you want to get the average gamer to buy your $70 mouse then it better have a braided cable because that is a "feature" the cheaper G402/G302 mice don't have. We could complain all day and Logitech won't change that cable because that cable will contribute to more sales than the whole of this forum. If that is a problem for you then either don't buy it or open it up and replace the cable yourself.
> 
> The G303 is expensive. It isn't going to stop being expensive regardless of what the people here think. It sits at the top of the feature list with a 12000 DPI sensor and Logitech would obviously charge accordingly because to the average gamer they think they are buying the best mouse in the world because it is 12000 DPI and that is higher than any other mice.
> 
> As for LEDs I don't care because they can be turned off (unless you bought Zowie EC1/2 lol). The cost of RGB LEDs relative to blue LEDs will be insignificant but we all know how much the average gamer will pay just to have their "battlestation" light up in the same color.
> 
> At the end of the day Logitech made the decisions they did for obvious reasons. You may not like those decisions but they came to them with clear reason.


if kids think over 9000 dpi is so good why dont companies besides redragon and steelseries use 16400 dpi a9800?


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> Funny how the Rival and DeathAdder changed prices...
> 
> I already said the braid and LED is irrelevant to my ultimate question of the value over the G302. Remember the G303 uses some of the same molds of the G302.
> 
> Want many features at high prices buy a G502.






I was pointing out how complaining is utterly pointless. The G302 will reduce in price some time after launch just as the G502 did ($68 on amazon). I would expect to G303 to end up being cheaper than the G502 and cost about $58.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I was pointing out how complaining is utterly pointless. The G302 will reduce in price some time after launch just as the G502 did ($68 on amazon). I would expect to G303 to end up being cheaper than the G502 and cost about $58.


The issue with that is they are reusing molds and a sensor they already developed with the G502. If the shape was new the situation would be different, but they are reusing most of the G302.

What if Zowie increased their price significantly when they released the EC1/2-A or FK2? Would that have been acceptable?


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> The issue with that is they are reusing molds and a sensor they already developed with the G502. If the shape was new the situation would be different, but they are reusing most of the G302.
> 
> What if Zowie increased their price significantly when they released the EC1/2-A or FK2? Would that have been acceptable?






I understand the issues and I recognise why you don't like them. It's just not going to make a difference though.

Zowie is so cheap that their MCU isn't flashable and when updating the EC1/2-A they didn't even redesign the PCB so the LED was under the mouse rather than lighting up the scroll wheel. Their mice are also $60 on Amazon currently so they are already expensive and don't even offer full sensor functionality.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The issue with that is they are reusing molds and a sensor they already developed with the G502. If the shape was new the situation would be different, but they are reusing most of the G302.
> 
> What if Zowie increased their price significantly when they released the EC1/2-A or FK2? Would that have been acceptable?


There are much bigger issues! All gaming mice are bad value the way I see it. I basically only want something that already exists as a $8 office mouse (Logitech S96 for example)... except with a great "gaming" sensor and controller. I bet they could manage to sell what I want for $16 or so.

That's why it feels weird to argue about details. Arguments like that makes it seem as if there's any way for current, expensive gaming mice to be "good value", but there just isn't. The only thing that's going on is that they don't want to sell a cheap, good mouse. It is what it is.

I actually don't feel terribly robbed, so I guess I got successfully seduced by their offers.


----------



## metal571

Somehow people are forgetting that very few products in this segment, if any at all, actually cater to the very serious gamer. The only one that comes to mind right now is Zowie and even they have their own set of pitfalls on their mice as well.

We're figuratively a drop in the bucket.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Is the 3366 worth the price if you can still buy a G302? Does the G302 die a slow death like the Zowie AM?


It is if you want a higher malfunction speed. Might actually give this one a try if it really does end up having the 3366.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> It is if you want a higher malfunction speed.


you really figure this will be the only noticeable difference?
I mean, I'm probably justifying it with the cable since the G302 one is very stiff... and just sucks...








but yeah. would be nice if the sensor was different somehow else, even if G302 one is great.


----------



## Thursday88

If this thing has a 3366 then this will definitely be taking a place in my stable, next to my g502 and fk1. I'm really looking forward this release.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What if Zowie increased their price significantly when they released the EC1/2-A or FK2? Would that have been acceptable?


The new FK2 already cost $95 (Australia) here, compared to $75 of FK1 and $66 of FK. EC1/2-A not even sold yet










Logitech is ultimately the cheaper option here


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Somehow people are forgetting that very few products in this segment, if any at all, actually cater to the very serious gamer. The only one that comes to mind right now is Zowie and even they have their own set of pitfalls on their mice as well.
> 
> We're figuratively a drop in the bucket.


That's a bad analogy.
A better one would be a drop of hydrolic acid (whatever acid is in Xenomorph Aliens blood) in the bucket.


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I understand the issues and I recognise why you don't like them. It's just not going to make a difference though.
> 
> Zowie is so cheap that their MCU isn't flashable and when updating the EC1/2-A they didn't even redesign the PCB so the LED was under the mouse rather than lighting up the scroll wheel. Their mice are also $60 on Amazon currently so they are already expensive and don't even offer full sensor functionality.


I'm pretty sure Zowie is a niche and uses a different model as compared to Logitech or others, but to say they are cheap for doing something differently is absurd. I have to agree with "Popups", Logitech is reusing the G302 shell but putting in a better sensor and $20 extra at the same time.

Zowie did reuse the same shell as the FK and added a better sensor (Pixart 3310), but they didn't increase the price of their product at the end.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zowie is a niche and uses a different model as compared to Logitech or others, but to say they are cheap for doing something differently is absurd. I have to agree with "Popups", Logitech is reusing the G302 shell but putting in a better sensor and $20 extra at the same time.
> 
> Zowie did reuse the same shell as the FK and added a better sensor (Pixart 3310), but they didn't increase the price of their product at the end.


Zowie's case is the replacement of a discontinued product. This is better internals of the same shell. Think the EVGA Torq series.


----------



## exitone

Should be $10 not $20, don't want logitech to overprice like razer...


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Should be $10 not $20, don't want logitech to overprice like razer...


So much for 'I want the best mouse and the price is not an issue'


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> So much for 'I want the best mouse and the price is not an issue'


That's basically how most people in this forum act, zowie is an easy example of inflation since no other company bothers to make mice like theirs.


----------



## Atavax

well, you have to figure that Logitech is spending a lot of money other brands aren't. Logitech has released 4 new mouse bodies in a very short period of time. They have 2 awesome performing sensors that no one else has. They have the best average of button response time. They have some very impressive equipment in their labs.

Razer prices are higher because they have to pay for their marketing. If Logitech's prices need to be higher to pay for engineering new bodies, better sensors, better buttons ect. I'll pay for that.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> well, you have to figure that Logitech is spending a lot of money other brands aren't. Logitech has released 4 new mouse bodies in a very short period of time. They have 2 awesome performing sensors that no one else has. They have the highest average of button response time. They have some very impressive equipment in their labs.
> 
> Razer prices are higher because they have to pay for their marketing. If Logitech's prices need to be higher to pay for engineering new bodies, better sensors, better buttons ect. I'll pay for that.


Pretty much this. Razer products have pretty terrible quality once you have tried another gaming mouse from another brand.

Razer is marketing and logitech is making innovative mice.


----------



## munchzilla

that should be "lowest average" response time, just so no one gets confused...









lower is better!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> So much for 'I want the best mouse and the price is not an issue'


I wouldn't have mentioned the price if the mold wasn't being reused. If it was an improved shape I wouldn't have said a thing about LEDs and braided cables. Not that I like a braided cable, though I did use a DeathAdder for a year. $70 at initial release is fine for an entirely new mouse.

I have complained about the price of the Rival, DeathAdder 2013 and FK. I didn't buy a DeathAdder 2013 because it was very expensive at release. I didn't buy a Rival because it was overpriced for the quality you get. I waited a long time to get an FK, I only bought it because I got a deal from the retailer, same for the AM.

If I have a decent mouse already I don't see the point of buying another if it's overpriced for what it is. i will wait until the prices are within what I consider reasonable for that particular product.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I wouldn't have mentioned the price if the mold wasn't being reused. If it was an improved shape I wouldn't have said a thing about LEDs and braided cables. Not that I like a braided cable, though I did use a DeathAdder for a year. $70 at initial release is fine for a entirely new mouse.


tell that to zowie


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> tell that to zowie


I said a lot of stuff to/about Zowie Gear.

I bought two Zowie mice for $45 and two others for $60.


----------



## Menthalion

Never really liked the braided cables on my mice, SteelSeries braiding actually caused cable breaks instead of just snagging.

However, if Logitech managed to make braided mouse cables like the G430 headphone braided cables, I'd actually like them.

They're highly flexible, smooth and soft, flow like silk and despite being very thin I haven't managed to break them by stumbling over them like many previous headphones.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Never really liked the braided cables on my mice, SteelSeries braiding actually caused cable breaks instead of just snagging.


I've still got an ancient spare Xai and it's braided cable is still supple and flexible, the BEST Braided Cable that I've ever used for any input device







.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> I've still got an ancient spare Xai and it's braided cable is still supple and flexible, the BEST Braided Cable that I've ever used for any input device
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Never had a Xai, but the Diablo III (proto-Sensei Raw) and Sensei Raw braided cables caused both mice to break down within 6 months. I could never get rid of the cable folds that were in there since packaging, and the stiffness of the cable caused concentrated flexing on those spots resulting in cable breaks.


----------



## yukino

Amazon just removed it


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Amazon just removed it


So they removed an imaginary mouse, so what's the problem?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> I've still got an ancient spare Xai and it's braided cable is still supple and flexible, the BEST Braided Cable that I've ever used for any input device
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Never had a Xai, but the Diablo III (proto-Sensei Raw) and Sensei Raw braided cables caused both mice to break down within 6 months. I could never get rid of the cable folds that were in there since packaging, and the stiffness of the cable caused concentrated flexing on those spots resulting in cable breaks.
Click to expand...

XAI cable was leaps better then raw cables.
Also the rubber coating on XAI is still the best coating I ever had in any mouse, ever.
Sadly the mouse itself is garbage


----------



## Oeshon

It is too bad that she shape of G302 is terrible. I wish they would have gone for | | sides instead of the slanted \ /

Logitech always does good technically but fails with the shapes, they have the opposite problem of SteelSeries.


----------



## innov

what stops steelseries from making a xai v2 that is identical to the original xai except it has the rival sensor?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oeshon*
> 
> It is too bad that she shape of G302 is terrible. I wish they would have gone for | | sides instead of the slanted \ /
> 
> Logitech always does good technically but fails with the shapes, they have the opposite problem of SteelSeries.


I really like that they changed to a \ / shape for the sides. I actually develop pain on a mouse with | | sides from gripping it too hard for repositioning. The G100s shape was for example not good for me, had to use an Abyssus instead.


----------



## Brightmist

I like the \_/ shape better too since I move the mouse using my fingertips eventho I have a claw grip.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: innov



Originally Posted by *innov* 


> what stops steelseries from making a xai v2 that is identical to the original xai except it has the rival sensor?






Knowing Steelseries they would put an A9800 in it.


----------



## Aventadoor

K, lets try do something about that.

Make facebook groups, make a thread on every big hardware forum, and HLTV.Org.
With the growth of e-sports, its about time that they start making proper ambidextrous mices with optical sensors!


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> K, lets try do something about that.
> 
> Make facebook groups, make a thread on every big hardware forum, and HLTV.Org.
> With the growth of e-sports, its about time that they start making proper ambidextrous mices with optical sensors!


People only care about their 150g mice with RGB lights and fancy cables.
It might work on hltv, though.

Kappa


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Aventadoor



Originally Posted by *Aventadoor* 


> K, lets try do something about that.
> 
> Make facebook groups, make a thread on every big hardware forum, and HLTV.Org.
> With the growth of e-sports, its about time that they start making proper ambidextrous mices with optical sensors!






The reason we have so many more mice using the PMW-3310 or S3988 now is because this can be fit within current business strategies and marketing. A mouse will be released in two versions where one has an optical sensor and the other, which is priced more expensive, will have a higher DPI sensor (A9800). The saps average gamer will buy the more expensive version if they the money but those who have less money may buy the lower DPI optical version. As a side effect it also pleases mouse enthusiasts and professional gamers who want a good mouse to use from the sponsors line-up.

This is a standard business strategy where you have product tiers so that a person with $40 to spend will buy the $40 mouse and a person with $70 to spend will buy the $70 mouse. Instead of only having a $50 mouse that the person with $40 can't afford and the person, who has $70, ends up buying a mouse that costs $50 rather than $70.

You can see that with the former strategy the business gets $110 and with the latter strategy the business only gets $50. This is how the gaming mouse market works. Release a variety of products at different price points. As price increases the DPI gets higher with more "features" such as more buttons, RGB lighting, weight cartridges and braided cables etc.

Steelseries already have this though with the 5700 DPI A9500 in the Sensei Raw and the 8200 DPI A9800 in the Sensei "MLG Edition". As a result, Steelseries has little incentive to update their mice with the PMW-3310 or S3988 instead of the A9500.


----------



## cryptos9099

http://www.macmall.com/p/Logitech-Pointing-Devices/product~dpno~13390974~pdp.jaadgai

Time for more tears T.T


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*
> 
> http://www.macmall.com/p/Logitech-Pointing-Devices/product~dpno~13390974~pdp.jaadgai
> 
> Time for more tears T.T


Considering that place is charging $73 for the 302 and $69 for the 402, I doubt their pricing indicates anything.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> That's a bad analogy.
> A better one would be a drop of hydrolic acid (whatever acid is in Xenomorph Aliens blood) in the bucket.


Our "knowledge" or drive for REAL high end products seeps through the cracks eventually, albeit very slowly.

It only needs 1 of us to educate a few of the masses.

I've already got quite a few coworkers who are casual gamers that switched to mice we would use and thanked me later on for the advice.


----------



## yukino

I almost forgot to tell you guys, but I'm pretty sure that Logitech is announcing the G303 at PAX East this Week.
Last year they announced the G502 there.

So yeah.. I guess something between 6th - 8th March.


----------



## Ihateallmice

sick, they need pax to announce the same mouse that is out with another sensor that they have in another mouse. on top of that there is now leaked info and videos with all the info. maybe some logitech employees are going to jump on their spaceship mouse and fly to a different planet where what they do actually make sense.


----------



## yukino

Your name makes sense now tho







gj!


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> what stops steelseries from making a xai v2 that is identical to the original xai except it has the rival sensor?


Stupidity.
Hell I would take any ss mouse with a 3310 right now because they still have the best shapes outside of the old Logitech MX300/G1 etc.

Steelseries have been really dead for some time now regarding new mice as well, seems they should release something new soon.
Slowest by far compared to everyone else.


----------



## Nilizum

WTB G403, G402 minus all the dead weight and stupid buttons on it, and 3366.







Wait, they'll probably add more weight with the RGB in the G403. Maybe I want a G401...? LOL. Plz Chris Pate.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Wait, they'll probably add more weight with the RGB in the G403. M


1g at most.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Steelseries have been really dead for some time now regarding new mice as well, seems they should release something new soon.
> Slowest by far compared to everyone else.


There was a firmware update for SS Raw so who knows, they also got rid of the dead weight apparently(Kana, Kinzu).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> The reason we have so many more mice using the PMW-3310 or S3988 now is because this can be fit within current business strategies and marketing. A mouse will be released in two versions where one has an optical sensor and the other, which is priced more expensive, will have a higher DPI sensor (A9800).


It is more of a service imo, i doubt that it would make much difference if they released for example the Naos with just one sensor, Kone XTD and Kone Pure differences for example would make sense, altough i have to say that 3988 is technically better than A9800, but cpi are still a big selling point which is why "lower-end" brands are still using it, most of them go the 3050 or 9800 route, which the factories apparently ride on as well.


----------



## dlano

A refreshed G402 and G502 with RGB lighting is a distinct possibility for the future, now logitech has joined the multi-color lighing craze.

G403 with 3366 would be a pleasant suprise.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dlano*
> 
> G403 with 3366 would be a pleasant suprise.


And total nonsense considering market and product lineup, even g303 is nonsensical, not sure if average customer of "rather small gaming mouse" would pay that price, or if people who want to spend that much not just go G502.


----------



## Atavax

Keep in mind small mice are popular with FPS and there is recent severe lack of good FPS on PC. Basically CS:GO is the only fairly recent good PC FPS. There are also like 10 studios working on a PC FPS right now, Overwatch, Reborn, Bluestreak, Unreal Tournament, Arms of Telos, Dirty Bomb, ect. Just 1 of them needs to be a hit and boom, the FPS mouse market has doubled. Yep, the FPS mouse market is small right now, but it doesn't have its LoL or WoW yet. No one has figured out the right formular for it yet. It has the potential to explode.


----------



## Nilizum

Can anyone measure the sensor position of the G302 like so:


---

I got 56.5mm with the G303.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Keep in mind small mice are popular with FPS and there is recent severe lack of good FPS on PC. Basically CS:GO is the only fairly recent good PC FPS. There are also like 10 studios working on a PC FPS right now, Overwatch, Reborn, Bluestreak, Unreal Tournament, Arms of Telos, Dirty Bomb, ect. Just 1 of them needs to be a hit and boom, the FPS mouse market has doubled. Yep, the FPS mouse market is small right now, but it doesn't have its LoL or WoW yet. No one has figured out the right formular for it yet. It has the potential to explode.


You realize only few of FPSer will use 360 bigger than 30cm right?

Plus most FPS will try to cater to office mouse.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> And total nonsense considering market and product lineup, even g303 is nonsensical, not sure if average customer of "rather small gaming mouse" would pay that price, or if people who want to spend that much not just go G502.


Didn't the Sensei do pretty well? That thing was $90 when it first launched. Performance wise, it doesn't even match the G303, and the G303 is cheaper. Plus, I'm pretty sure Logitech knows their market. What/where's your context of "nonsensical" here?

People asked for a lower weight ambidextrous shaped mouse with a 3366. It is here now. Now there are new complaints. Wat. The shape may seem weird (I tested a G302 a few months ago, but didn't have it long enough to data log), but it wasn't THAT bad. Besides, Logitech was claiming they did heatmaps to conclude that shape, and people are actually enjoying it.

Sounds to me like the people that don't seem to agree upon this product are of the way small minority.

---

I mean, I said the G403 thing as a joke, because I doubt they'd actually downgrade from the marketing ploy of "fastest gaming mouse" to a 3366 which is apparently expensive, and doesn't yield the crazy m/s figures. Again, love the changes to the G402 minus the terrible sniper button, but it could be lighter (and get rid of the sniper button).


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Didn't the Sensei do pretty well? That thing was $90 when it first launched. Performance wise, it doesn't even match the G303, and the G303 is cheaper. Plus, I'm pretty sure Logitech knows their market. What/where's your context of "nonsensical" here?
> 
> People asked for a lower weight ambidextrous shaped mouse with a 3366. It is here now. Now there are new complaints. Wat. The shape may seem weird (I tested a G302 a few months ago, but didn't have it long enough to data log), but it wasn't THAT bad. Besides, Logitech was claiming they did heatmaps to conclude that shape, and people are actually enjoying it.
> 
> Sounds to me like the people that don't seem to agree upon this product are of the way small minority.
> 
> ---
> 
> I mean, I said the G403 thing as a joke, because I doubt they'd actually downgrade from the marketing ploy of "fastest gaming mouse" to a 3366 which is apparently expensive, and doesn't yield the crazy m/s figures. Again, love the changes to the G402 minus the terrible sniper button, but it could be lighter (and get rid of the sniper button).


Well, Sensei is...Sensei. Given how many RAW revision coming than compared to Sensei, I would say it's not that good

Plus, I believe most gamer will think Sensei is 'better' than G302(and probably to G303) simply due to SS's strategy and Logitech's tendency to low price..

and again, G402's sniper button is not that bad.


----------



## popups

I don't like the shape of the Sensei, the arch is unnatural. Same goes for the AM and FK. The arch of the G302/3 looks better, only the sides and rear are not for my grip. The new Mionix mouse looks nice in some respects, but I think their concept for the shape could be better.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Didn't the Sensei do pretty well? That thing was $90 when it first launched. Performance wise, it doesn't even match the G303, and the G303 is cheaper. Plus, I'm pretty sure Logitech knows their market. What/where's your context of "nonsensical" here?


I see it more as a service for enthusiasts, dont get me wrong, it is a good thing, but rationally it is not, and the conclusion on most of these discussions(with a certain someone) is that G502 outsells anything anyway, and that by a seriously large margin, thing is in Amazon Charts place one since release, wether OCN likes it or not, and it certainly is kind of weird situation having G302 and G303, especially for the uninformed customer, if i see a g303 and a g502 and i know nothing but i have money, which one will i buy? Or my budget isnt even that big so i wont even consider G303 and get a g302 instead. G303 is a niche Product that is hard to defend because it doesnt have a spot on its own.(Props to CPate at this point for pushing this and a lot of other things through). And doing well is kind of subjective, looking at the current situation and trends making high priced ambidextrous mice is a risk in itself. Not saying that Ambimice are bad or something, in Fact im using one right now, but people need to understand that the market doesnt revolve around a bunch of elitist circlejerks who scream optical sensei 24/7, and the reason it might take so long is because Rival maybe outsold it.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Well, Sensei is...Sensei. Given how many RAW revision coming than compared to Sensei, I would say it's not that good
> 
> Plus, I believe most gamer will think Sensei is 'better' than G302(and probably to G303) simply due to SS's strategy and Logitech's tendency to low price..
> 
> and again, G402's sniper button is not that bad.


what? tons of people have the sensei and the reason why theres no sensei variation is because steelseries treats it like a premium product and not some rebranded garbage.


----------



## Nilizum

AFAIK people that loved gimmicks went to the Sensei. People that wanted a cheaper solution went for the RAW. G303 is an actual performance solution in comparison to today's standards and choices. G402 sniper button isn't that bad, but damn it I feel it at the very tip of my thumb and it's in my conscience...

Since Steelseries is being quiet, I'm going to compare what the next big company, Razer is doing.

Razer keeps refreshing their Deathadder. It's a good mouse, I get it, but more colors and overcompensating dpi is a joke. Before that, Razer had the whole Abyssus 2014 fiasco with the underdeveloped firmware. They reused the pcb of the older abyssus, so i don't know why that was even an issue. Same performance, same jitter. Decent shape, but it actually had BAD pixel accuracy visible to the naked eye. They won't do anything about it. Then there's the Taipan, which would probably be more popular if they gave it a performance sensor, but they ignore that and focus only on the Deathadder's selling point.

I mean, Logitech could've done the same thing, Since the MX510 line was their gaming flagship mouse, but they have the balls to offer different solutions. And instead of refreshing their smaller ended ambi line with the same lame tech, they push new tech and new shapes. Razer did push a new shape, but the same bad tech stayed. One could retort that Razer wanted their mouse to be calibrated to work on their mousemats only for exclusive sales, because that sensor did work well on a Goliathus Control, and only on the Goliathus Control, unless you spent search costs finding a similar solution.

Razer's perspective doesn't see the need to upgrade their tech. Ok, for the Deathadder line, I understand, but what about every other mouse that isn't a Deathadder? I liked the Taipan shape, but jeez that sensor was trash.

Logitech being the more innovative company and offering more variety, is a winner in my book.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> I see it more as a service for enthusiasts, dont get me wrong, it is a good thing, but rationally it is not, and the conclusion on most of these discussions(with a certain someone) is that G502 outsells anything anyway, and that by a seriously large margin, thing is in Amazon Charts place one since release, wether OCN likes it or not, and it certainly is kind of weird situation having G302 and G303, especially for the uninformed customer, if i see a g303 and a g502 and i know nothing but i have money, which one will i buy? Or my budget isnt even that big so i wont even consider G303 and get a g302 instead. G303 is a niche Product that is hard to defend because it doesnt have a spot on its own.(Props to CPate at this point for pushing this and a lot of other things through). And doing well is kind of subjective, looking at the current situation and trends making high priced ambidextrous mice is a risk in itself. Not saying that Ambimice are bad or something, in Fact im using one right now, but people need to understand that the market doesnt revolve around a bunch of elitist circlejerks who scream optical sensei 24/7, and the reason it might take so long is because Rival maybe outsold it.


i don't know, i don't think its much of a stretch to say that many common consumers know they like claw/fingertip grip or want to try a claw/fingertip grip mouse and looking for a claw/fingertip grip mouse, the g302 is the highest end option from Logitech and then making a g303 with a super high end sensor and rgb lighting could certainly justify the purchase even if they have no idea what the 3366 sensor is. I don't see the g502 and the g303 competing much. I think if you think one looks comfortable you won't think the other does. The g502 does appear to be successful king of high end palms, it makes sense to try to make a king of high end claw and fingertip as well. Also, while CPate is certainly lovable, it might be someone else at Logitech responsable for the g303 miracle, so lets just give Logitech props imo.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> I see it more as a service for enthusiasts, dont get me wrong, it is a good thing, but rationally it is not, and the conclusion on most of these discussions(with a certain someone) is that G502 outsells anything anyway, and that by a seriously large margin, thing is in Amazon Charts place one since release, wether OCN likes it or not, and it certainly is kind of weird situation having G302 and G303, especially for the uninformed customer, if i see a g303 and a g502 and i know nothing but i have money, which one will i buy? Or my budget isnt even that big so i wont even consider G303 and get a g302 instead. G303 is a niche Product that is hard to defend because it doesnt have a spot on its own.(Props to CPate at this point for pushing this and a lot of other things through). And doing well is kind of subjective, looking at the current situation and trends making high priced ambidextrous mice is a risk in itself. Not saying that Ambimice are bad or something, in Fact im using one right now, but people need to understand that the market doesnt revolve around a bunch of elitist circlejerks who scream optical sensei 24/7, and the reason it might take so long is because Rival maybe outsold it.


I beg to differ. Retailers often have Logitech mice on sale, and returns are easy cuz retail. If user likes the shape of G502, user will get G502, but if there's an option for a different shape with the same great performance, then there's an alternative: G303. Price point wise, they are a similar value. Also depends on how they try to market it. Most players are MOBA players. The G303 shapeset caters to the MOBA audience, and even the fps audience. Not only that, it has prettier colors. If you're assuming the G502 outshines the G303, not in the slightest, given its features. I'd say they're a close match.


----------



## JustinSane

Damn it I thought for sure it was gonna be tonight. Just a teaser so far.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Damn it I thought for sure it was gonna be tonight. Just a teaser so far.


lol
Looks like the marketing team is having fun.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Damn it I thought for sure it was gonna be tonight. Just a teaser so far.


What teaser?

14 seconds of crap intro and STILL no image of their so-called G303, what a pathetic joke. Nice one Logitech







.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> What teaser?
> 
> 14 seconds of crap intro and STILL no image of their so-called G303, what a pathetic joke. Nice one Logitech
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It's not like we haven't already seen it







. They release a video like this 1-2 days before the actual video, completely forgot.

Teaser - (Marketing) a preliminary advertisement in a campaign that attracts attention by making people curious to know what product is being advertised

lol


----------



## Maximillion

Well at least it's something official. Everything up to this point we had to scour obscure websites for lol.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Well at least it's something official. Everything up to this point we had to scour obscure websites for lol.


Except for the vimeo video.
It had the full title in the video.


----------



## Maximillion

The discovery of the vimeo vid could be considered a leak. Logi didn't want that "out" just yet


----------



## Nivity

Hyping up a mouse that's the same as G302 but with more lasers and another sensor.
Okey logitech, 10/10.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> The discovery of the vimeo vid could be considered a leak. Logi didn't want that "out" just yet


amazon.de isn't an obscure website lol

logitech loves their dubstep music tho


----------



## yukino

The Vimeo Video got deleted immediately after I've posted it.. Who's working for Logitech here?









So it's for sure now timing is perfect, *announcement at PAX East 6th - 8th March.*


----------



## FreeElectron

After mouse release i'll be waiting for

r0ach's seal of approval
Ino's review (or any other decent review)


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> The Vimeo Video got deleted immediately after I've posted it.. Who's working for Logitech here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's for sure now timing is perfect, PAX East 6th - 8th March.


At least 4 or 5 dudes are Logitech's "tester" on top of Cpete. I can say it's monitored 24/7


----------



## detto87

I'll preorder because:
- I need to test a 3366
- I need to test that shape
- I have to give Logitech some props for incorporating their high end (and to date one of the best) sensors into a mouse that looks passable for FPS gaming


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> At least 4 or 5 dudes are Logitech's "tester" on top of Cpete. I can say it's monitored 24/7


Okay that would make sense.







thanks for letting me know.


----------



## exitone

The video was on youtube for 10 hours before it got posted here and deleted 30 mins after. They've got attention on leaks now so no point ( i have the video)


----------



## yukino

Just post it, so we can see how fast Logitech is actually responding against leaks.


----------



## TK421

Any word on release date? Been away from this section for awhile.


----------



## yukino

Nah.. they will announce it at PAX East should be in the next days.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Nah.. they will announce it at PAX East should be in the next days.


Noted, thanks!


----------



## Nivity

I will prolly buy it aswell even though I returned G302 twice.
Mainly because the DPI bug on KPM is annoying and I don't have a smaller mouse atm







Avior 7k is big as the deathstar.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> At least 4 or 5 dudes are Logitech's "tester" on top of Cpete. I can say it's monitored 24/7


i thought just 2, Ino and Metal. Who else?

but yeah, Cpate is probably watching this thread. This might be the most effective place to find leaks on Logitech's newest mice


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i thought just 2, Ino and Metal. Who else?
> 
> but yeah, Cpate is probably watching this thread. This might be the most effective place to find leaks on Logitech's newest mice


Yea
he is ninjaing the thread


----------



## Atavax

i think the term is lurking...


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i think the term is lurking...


ninjaing*


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i don't know, i don't think its much of a stretch to say that many common consumers know they like claw/fingertip grip or want to try a claw/fingertip grip mouse and looking for a claw/fingertip grip mouse, the g302 is the highest end option from Logitech and then making a g303 with a super high end sensor and rgb lighting could certainly justify the purchase even if they have no idea what the 3366 sensor is. I don't see the g502 and the g303 competing much. I think if you think one looks comfortable you won't think the other does. The g502 does appear to be successful king of high end palms, it makes sense to try to make a king of high end claw and fingertip as well. Also, while CPate is certainly lovable, it might be someone else at Logitech responsable for the g303 miracle, so lets just give Logitech props imo.


Ofc it makes sense to expand the product lineup, but there is already G302 and thats where stuff gets "complicated" in regards to the average joe. If somebody knows he prefers smaller mice wouldnt he have bought a g302 by now?

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I beg to differ. Retailers often have Logitech mice on sale, and returns are easy cuz retail. If user likes the shape of G502, user will get G502, but if there's an option for a different shape with the same great performance, then there's an alternative: G303. Price point wise, they are a similar value. Also depends on how they try to market it. Most players are MOBA players. The G303 shapeset caters to the MOBA audience, and even the fps audience. Not only that, it has prettier colors. If you're assuming the G502 outshines the G303, not in the slightest, given its features. I'd say they're a close match.


This isnt even about features, well partially, but you should have gotten the point by now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> At least 4 or 5 dudes are Logitech's "tester" on top of Cpete. I can say it's monitored 24/7


I like how he gets the name wrong every time. :>


----------



## Dreyka

CPate cannot talk about products that haven't been announced hence why nothing has been said.



Spoiler: Quote: woll3



Originally Posted by *woll3* 


> I see it more as a service for enthusiasts, dont get me wrong, it is a good thing, but rationally it is not, and the conclusion on most of these discussions(with a certain someone) is that G502 outsells anything anyway, and that by a seriously large margin, thing is in Amazon Charts place one since release, wether OCN likes it or not, and it certainly is kind of weird situation having G302 and G303, especially for the uninformed customer, if i see a g303 and a g502 and i know nothing but i have money, which one will i buy? Or my budget isnt even that big so i wont even consider G303 and get a g302 instead. G303 is a niche Product that is hard to defend because it doesnt have a spot on its own.(Props to CPate at this point for pushing this and a lot of other things through). And doing well is kind of subjective, looking at the current situation and trends making high priced ambidextrous mice is a risk in itself. Not saying that Ambimice are bad or something, in Fact im using one right now, but people need to understand that the market doesnt revolve around a bunch of elitist circlejerks who scream optical sensei 24/7, and the reason it might take so long is because Rival maybe outsold it.






There is a reason that when a new brand enters the market that one of their first mice will be ergonomic. It's a popular shape that sells well.

I do think you are right that getting an optical and laser variant of the same mouse (X5 and X5L) is partially related to a service for enthusiasts and professional gamers.


----------



## munchzilla

I don't have the patience to wait til PAX :'(
*rocks back and forth uncontrollably*


----------



## Longasc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I'll preorder because:
> - I need to test a 3366
> - I need to test that shape
> - I have to give Logitech some props for incorporating their high end (and to date one of the best) sensors into a mouse that looks passable for FPS gaming


I was very much at odds with the shape of the G302 for several days. Just stop thinking about it and just play and then it "clicked" for me.
I am quite confident you will enjoy it as much, I would really wonder if the 3366 sensor makes the mouse worse.









It's a marvelous design, buttons, wheel and even the initially at least for me unusual shape paired with a great sensor (I find the whatever they use in the G302 already superb) turn it into a wonderful mouse.

I think if I had seen and touched it first in a store I would have dismissed this mouse. I am glad I didn't. If the IMO really cheesy RGB LED disco-ass makes more people give this mouse a try it is a good thing, IMO. I am so much more convinced by this product line than by the G402/502 shape.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> I don't have the patience to wait til PAX :'(
> *rocks back and forth uncontrollably*


Will most likely be announced tonight at 4 am est. If you look at the videos for the 302, they had a teaser video like this one the day before the actual video.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> I was very much at odds with the shape of the G302 for several days. Just stop thinking about it and just play and then it "clicked" for me.
> I am quite confident you will enjoy it as much, I would really wonder if the 3366 sensor makes the mouse worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a marvelous design, buttons, wheel and even the initially at least for me unusual shape paired with a great sensor (I find the whatever they use in the G302 already superb) turn it into a wonderful mouse.
> 
> I think if I had seen and touched it first in a store I would have dismissed this mouse. I am glad I didn't. If the IMO really cheesy RGB LED disco-ass makes more people give this mouse a try it is a good thing, IMO. I am so much more convinced by this product line than by the G402/502 shape.


I'm intrigued by the shape. Looks like a good fit for me. I'm glad its not a sensei clone.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Will most likely be announced tonight at 4 am est. If you look at the videos for the 302, they had a teaser video like this one the day before the actual video.


that's cool! do you know if it is going to be available for purchase immediately as well?


----------



## yukino

I would love to see the full trailer today!! I have no idea.. WHAT CAN IT BE? Logitech pls.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> that's cool! do you know if it is going to be available for purchase immediately as well?


Normally they are on the Logitech site at 4 am, yes. I don't think they've ever given a ship date though. I remember checking every day to see when the G402 shipped lol.


----------



## yukino

How do you know about that 4 am?


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> How do you know about that 4 am?


Because I care waaaaaaay to much about this stuff lol. I've been around at 4am for G502, 402, and 302.

Plus look at what time their tweet went out last night for the teaser.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I'm intrigued by the shape. Looks like a good fit for me. I'm glad its not a sensei clone.


I am glad it isn't a Sensei clone, I don't like that shape much. However, it is a G302 clone, I dislike that design more than the Sensei.


----------



## Aventadoor

Sensei got kinda sharp edges on the sides, it could be more comfertable.
FK1 is kinda better shaped, but just lacks the width to be totally awsm.


----------



## yukino

@Justin

Really? xD That would be cool.

Thanks for the information.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Ofc it makes sense to expand the product lineup, but there is already G302 and thats where stuff gets "complicated" in regards to the average joe. If somebody knows he prefers smaller mice wouldnt he have bought a g302 by now?


well, don't most people buy a new mouse because they need it, not because a new mouse came out? Or if they buy a new mouse when they don't need it, its probably because it seems like a giant improvement, which would likely be an incredible sensor, like the 3366. Also, i believe there are a couple mice that have recently come out with the same shell or similar shells from the same company with different sensors. Seems like the prevailing wisdom in the industry is using the same shell lowers cost and helps justify greater diversity in sensors. Makes more sense then the cm storm mizar and alcor imo, where there are very similar shells but not the same, with different sensors.


----------



## vinzbe

Is it safe to assume I don't like the shape of the G302?

Hint:


----------



## springrolls

dude...what is that


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *springrolls*
> 
> dude...what is that


in the words of Archer: Sploosh


----------



## vinzbe

Well, I can still try the transplant into a g100. So it's not there yet.

Edit: Sploosh in the way it's been abused by a lime.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Is it safe to assume I don't like the shape of the G302?
> 
> Hint:


Can you give us some shots of you holding the mouse in your usual grip? I'm very curious.


----------



## vinzbe

Sure.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Sure.


I understand why you would want to do that to your mouse given your grip.


----------



## Nilizum

m8 that's nasty.


----------



## pinobot

Would be interested in a G303 if they don't handicap the LOD like Steelseries did with the Sensei Raw and if it doesn't become more heavy like most of the second generation mice Logitech makes.


----------



## popups

It would be cool to design a 3D printable shell for the G303 and G502 PCBs.

*@pinobot*

The G302 is heavier than it should be considering the size.


----------



## CorruptBE

I'd buy a stash and print some ambi shapes with a butt


----------



## JustinSane

Who's with me for this boys? In like 30 minutes hopefully they announce this mouse. I'mma pre-order immediately. Let's hope the cable is lighter.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand why you would want to do that to your mouse given your grip.
Click to expand...

I hold the mouse the same way. My thumb is right on the curve, that was why I ended up returning it twice








Although how It got that disturbing with discoloration I have no Idea :O


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I hold the mouse the same way. My thumb is right on the curve, that was why I ended up returning it twice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although how It got that disturbing with discoloration I have no Idea :O


My grip is also similar (except I have 3 fingers on top), and I have no problems holding the mouse. The difference seems to be my hand is a tad more forward on the mouse, with the inside of my thumb knuckle bending exactly over the curve. That way I have a steady grip pushing and pulling. Both thumb buttons are more easily reached as well. However, the mouse wheel is a bit more to the back than I would like, which would be worse for a 2 fingers on top grip. With 3 fingers on top you can just arch the middle finger a bit more. Perhaps that's the reason you guys are forced to grip it with the thumb tip exactly on the ridge ?


----------



## iceskeleton

DPI sells
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Who's with me for this boys? In like 30 minutes hopefully they announce this mouse. I'mma pre-order immediately. Let's hope the cable is lighter.


I had no trouble getting it (g302) on launch day, so I think I am fine for this one


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I hold the mouse the same way. My thumb is right on the curve, that was why I ended up returning it twice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although how It got that disturbing with discoloration I have no Idea :O
> 
> 
> 
> My grip is also similar (except I have 3 fingers on top), and I have no problems holding the mouse. The difference seems to be my hand is a tad more forward on the mouse, with the inside of my thumb knuckle bending exactly over the curve. That way I have a steady grip pushing and pulling. Both thumb buttons are more easily reached as well. However, the mouse wheel is a bit more to the back than I would like, which would be worse for a 2 fingers on top grip. With 3 fingers on top you can just arch the middle finger a bit more. Perhaps that's the reason you guys are forced to grip it with the thumb tip exactly on the ridge ?
Click to expand...

I use 3 fingers on top as well.
This is how I hold well my favorite mouse G100s (but don't use it as daily due to lack of sidebuttons)



The problem I had with G302 is I cannot hold the mouse further in the front due to having smaller hands 17cm ish from middle to wrist.
I always grip my mice quite near the butt of the mouse. I could palm the G302 fine but I just don't use that type of grip on mice.

But I will give the G303 a shot even if it's the same shape, because as I said before I really need a smaller mouse with sidebuttons after the KPM Dpi bug got annoying


----------



## JustinSane

Welp, announcement wasn't tonight







. That sucks boys. Hopefully tomorrow night







. Let me pre-order Logitech!


----------



## yukino

Tomorrow is 1 day before PAX, so I'm pretty sure it's tomorrow.


----------



## MasterBash

I prefer bigger mice myself, but the shape of the g302 is not an hindrance to me, so I use that.

If the G303 has the g502 cable and 3366 sensor, I would rate it 85%. Part of it being preference such as shape would not suit me 100% but good enough. I dont like braided cables, but they can be better than some cables like the current g302... The other is...

The edges around mouse feet. Why would they do such a thing? It drags on a mousepad. The G400 was perfect in that regard.


----------



## Ufasas

did they fix 3366 sensor bugging out stuff, which you get when you swipe mouse quick at certain lifted angle?


----------



## dmbr

Yes.


----------



## yukino

I completely forgot about the timezones tho..







so I think they will announce it on the 5th March, thats one day before Pax. But hopefully they do it today. :> would be amazing.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I completely forgot about the timezones tho..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so I think they will announce it on the 5th March, thats one day before Pax. But hopefully they do it today. :> would be amazing.


Yea I'm guessing it'll be tonight







. Let's hope brotha mang.


----------



## yukino

ye bro, stay strong.. we almost did it.


----------



## Nilizum

I'm actually surprised you lot actually like this mouse... Sensor tech aside, the weight and shape is nothing for applesauce. In a similar family, I'd think the RoG Sica would be more appealing. Sometimes I wonder REALLY what the "performance seekers" of this forum actually wants. I also don't understand the 3366 fanboyism. I've used a G502, and all I gotta say is... So? Thing weighs like a brick, and barely anyone goes past 5 m/s which a 3310 achieves.

Where is this G303 hype coming from? Only thing i can point out being good are the clicks they're advertising. That's bout it... Unless you guys somehow shifted from performance to RGB lights lel.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I'm actually surprised you lot actually like this mouse... Sensor tech aside, the weight and shape is nothing for applesauce. In a similar family, I'd think the RoG Sica would be more appealing. Sometimes I wonder REALLY what the "performance seekers" of this forum actually wants. I also don't understand the 3366 fanboyism. I've used a G502, and all I gotta say is... So? Thing weighs like a brick, and barely anyone goes past 5 m/s which a 3310 achieves.
> 
> Where is this G303 hype coming from? Only thing i can point out being good are the clicks they're advertising. That's bout it... Unless you guys somehow shifted from performance to RGB lights lel.


The lack of smaller mice with sidebuttons.

I would LOVE the sica but it lacks sidebuttons, otherwise I would not even look at g302/3.


----------



## a_ak57

Obviously there are people who don't actually dislike the G302's shape, so why wouldn't they be excited about an iteration with a better sensor that also fixes the wobble issue?


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The lack of smaller mice with sidebuttons.
> 
> I would LOVE the sica but it lacks sidebuttons, otherwise I would not even look at g302/3.


Then what about the Ninox Aurora?


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Obviously there are people who don't actually dislike the G302's shape, so why wouldn't they be excited about an iteration with a better sensor that also fixes the wobble issue?


They fixed the 'wobble' (that i barely even noticed for the short time i had with the G302) with some mouse feet. Not a shell change, they added mouse feet. Doesn't that sound remotely odd to you... Like, come on m8.

I'm not trying to be a hater; I get it, some people may like this shape; I am trying to understand where this hype is coming from. All I can see after this is a bunch of buyer's remorse.


----------



## a_ak57

I'm not sure what you find odd about their solution. Adding feet provides support to the sides. The thing wobbles because you essentially have a diamond that's supported on two opposing corners and the very center. Putting feet on the other corners would obviously help.

As for the Aurora, it has a considerably different shape. I'm not sure why you'd bring that up as if people who want a small mouse with side buttons should be fine with every shape, like I said some people actually like the 302 design (or maybe they don't like the Aurora's). That's like telling those who want a 3310 sensei to just use an FK1 or Avior. They're different mice, and what's the big deal if people want something specific? Not to mention the aurora is more prone to QC issues than a Logitech mouse, or rather, if there are issues you won't have to wait 7 months to hear something back.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I'm not trying to be a hater; I get it, some people may like this shape; I am trying to understand where this hype is coming from. All I can see after this is a bunch of buyer's remorse.


I think a good amount of people are just having fun with the hype. It's not super serious.

Then there's the thing where a lot of people said they want a simple mouse with the 3366. There was a lot of whining about that in the G502 thread. This thing here is probably the simplest you'll get with the sensor for the next two years or so.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I'm not sure what you find odd about their solution. Adding feet provides support to the sides. The thing wobbles because you essentially have a diamond that's supported on two opposing corners and the very center. Putting feet on the other corners would obviously help.
> 
> As for the Aurora, it has a considerably different shape. I'm not sure why you'd bring that up as if people who want a small mouse with side buttons should be fine with every shape, like I said some people actually like the 302 design (or maybe they don't like the Aurora's). That's like telling those who want a 3310 sensei to just use an FK1 or Avior. They're different mice, and what's the big deal if people want something specific? Not to mention the aurora is more prone to QC issues than a Logitech mouse, or rather, if there are issues you won't have to wait 7 months to hear something back.


Well, yes. What i'm trying to say is, the bottom is pretty tiny (because of its hard V shape) compared to fatter bottom width solutions based on shell design like a WMO, G402, or Sensei line. It's more or less a shell issue with the wobble than a feet issue, which does fix a percentage of the wobble, but because of the shell design it will still persist. I've had Abyssus (non 2014) wobble on me because of how its bottom was, and the feet pretty much cover the 4 corners.

Nivity mentioned the general small mouse with side buttons. Didn't specify a model. If you're making an assumption that he is talking about the G302 shapeset, then IDK.


----------



## yukino

I don't even understand why there is so much hate? If you don't like it FINE, but why are u keep saying it's bad, maybe it's bad for you but not for everyone. So be happy with something else.. it's simple. There is a reason why there are so many different shapes. :>


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The lack of smaller mice with sidebuttons.
> 
> I would LOVE the sica but it lacks sidebuttons, otherwise I would not even look at g302/3.
> 
> 
> 
> Then what about the Ninox Aurora?
Click to expand...

The EXTREME variance in quality makes it a pure gamble.
And the buttons are really bad on most units.

It was a good Idea but it was not executed correct.
I had high hopes for it but was a letdown tbh.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I don't even understand why there is so much hate? If you don't like it FINE, but why are u keep saying it's bad, maybe it's bad for you but not for everyone. So be happy with something else.. it's simple. There is a reason why there are so many different shapes. :>


Because everyone has this "center of earth" syndrome or so I've read/remember someone saying that on this forum.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Proper shapes for you doesn't mean the same thing for everyone else. This forum has a real center-of-the-universe complex going on here.


Found it.


----------



## yukino

Haha














thanks for that Quote, thats actually so true.. such a hero.


----------



## springrolls

There's no bashing on the people who use the mouse just the shape of the mouse itself, if people want a different shape from Logitech that's certainly not going to happen if you don't comment on what's wrong with this one. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## trriL

wat.

If this is a small mouse with the 3366 then no one* can say anything bad about it, not even Kanye.

*Hyperbole


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> wat.
> 
> If this is a small mouse with the 3366 then no one can say anything bad about it, not even Kanye.


Meh. Would rather have someone come out with a large, but lightweight (80g or less) mouse. Don't know why no one has been able to engineer one yet.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

To the people used to G302 shape, do you claw it?

I palm grip and wanted to try out a G502 but refrained from buying it since I heard of the G303.

For information I have normal hands and to me it seems like palming it would be kind of an issue.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> To the people used to G302 shape, do you claw it?
> 
> I palm grip and wanted to try out a G502 but refrained from buying it since I heard of the G303.
> 
> For information I have normal hands and to me it seems like palming it would be kind of an issue.


Palm is more G402/G502 area.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I'm actually surprised you lot actually like this mouse... Sensor tech aside, the weight and shape is nothing for applesauce. In a similar family, I'd think the RoG Sica would be more appealing. Sometimes I wonder REALLY what the "performance seekers" of this forum actually wants. I also don't understand the 3366 fanboyism. I've used a G502, and all I gotta say is... So? Thing weighs like a brick, and barely anyone goes past 5 m/s which a 3310 achieves.
> 
> Where is this G303 hype coming from? Only thing i can point out being good are the clicks they're advertising. That's bout it... Unless you guys somehow shifted from performance to RGB lights lel.


well, like the only lighter mouse with 2 side buttons and a high max speed is the zowie fk2 and i find the g302's shape preferable to the fk2's, also the feel of the mouse clicks, also has faster click response. Also, i feel like the feel of a mouse is greatly effected by the weight. So it was hard for me to judge the 3366 in the g502. So even if i didn't like the shape of the g303 i'd want it to try the 3366 in a light body.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Palm is more G402/G502 area.


Yeah that's what I thought but I find the G502 a bit too heavy for my taste.

As for G402 I heard it is not using 3366 so i dunno that truly would be an upgrade from my 3090 mice.

For some reason I don't like my EC2 A compared to my old ec evo cl...


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Yeah that's what I thought but I find the G502 a bit too heavy for my taste.
> 
> As for G402 I heard it is not using 3366 so i dunno that truly would be an upgrade from my 3090 mice.
> 
> For some reason I don't like my EC2 A compared to my old ec evo cl...


Any reason you'd think the G402 wasn't an upgrade? The G402 sensor is pretty good.

I find the G402 better than the EC1 EVO I have except for LOD. Everything feel better to me, but I grew up on the Logitech ergonomics.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I don't even understand why there is so much hate? If you don't like it FINE, but why are u keep saying it's bad, maybe it's bad for you but not for everyone. So be happy with something else.. it's simple. There is a reason why there are so many different shapes. :>


Not sure if this is directed to me, since your post was right under mine, and you kept saying 'you'. But if it's directed at me, I never said it was bad. I said I didn't understand the hype. Lets not jump to conclusions m8.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Any reason you'd think the G402 wasn't an upgrade? The G402 sensor is pretty good.
> 
> I find the G402 better than the EC1 EVO I have except for LOD. Everything feel better to me, but I grew up on the Logitech ergonomics.


This is part of the point I'm trying to make. The sensor tech in the G402 is technically better than the 3366. Don't understand why the hype is all for 3366. It's unwarranted for.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> This is part of the point I'm trying to make. The sensor tech in the G402 is technically better than the 3366. Don't understand why the hype is all for 3366. It's unwarranted for.


why do you think the sensor tech in the g402 is technically better then the 3366? just the higher max speed?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Not sure if this is directed to me, since your post was right under mine, and you kept saying 'you'. But if it's directed at me, I never said it was bad. I said I didn't understand the hype. Lets not jump to conclusions m8.


There's a lot of hate posts in this thread, where people declare the shape as being straight up bad, without qualifying their post in any way as just an opinion.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> why do you think the sensor tech in the g402 is technically better then the 3366? just the higher max speed?


that's the only thing I can see that is better, and even so, it performs worse when it hits the actual sensor max speed without the gyrometer...?


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Palm is more G402/G502 area.


I actually find the claw grip perfect on the G502, at least for me and I have medium size hands, I haven't found anything better. Heavy weight or not, it's just so comfortable for me.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> This is part of the point I'm trying to make. The sensor tech in the G402 is technically better than the 3366. Don't understand why the hype is all for 3366. It's unwarranted for.


I too find the G402 Fusion Engine a good piece of tech. Extending the "low" PCS was a really smart idea for a sensor as good as the AM010. Happy Logitech is expanding input capabilities beyond dee pee eye. I could only imagine people on here foaming if they could use such tech on an MLT04...

As for the 3366 desire, it's just unwarranted need to having what is presumably the best sensor available. IT won't make them any better but I think it feeds positive thoughts to know they have something that good.


----------



## Atavax

at the very least it should be fun to compare the am010 and 3366 in identical mice.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Any reason you'd think the G402 wasn't an upgrade? The G402 sensor is pretty good.
> 
> I find the G402 better than the EC1 EVO I have except for LOD. Everything feel better to me, but I grew up on the Logitech ergonomics.


Well I heard so much praise about the 3366 that I did not put much research in the G402 when I heard it was not implemented in that mouse.

How does it compare to 3366/3310? Is it a modified 3090?

Concerning LOD, I'm used to low LOD provided by Zowie mice, so this might be an issue too (or not haha).


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Well I heard so much praise about the 3366 that I did not put much research in the G402 when I heard it was not implemented in that mouse.
> 
> How does it compare to 3366/3310? Is it a modified 3090?
> 
> Concerning LOD, I'm used to low LOD provided by Zowie mice, so this might be an issue too (or not haha).


it uses the am010 sensor. Which is generally considered quite good, at low speeds, it is only bested by the mlt04 imo, and it has twice the max speed of the mlt04. However its max speed is relatively low in the modern landscape, so with the g402 they put in an accelerometer and a gyroscope which takes over when the mouse starts exceeding the max speed of the sensor. Enthusiasts are mixed on it because enthusiasts lack the equipment to test accuracy at high speeds, even speed related variance can be quite difficult to be 100% accurate with, so we're not sure how well it works. One line of thinking would be that relying on two different methods of tracking mouse movement depending on the speed is likely less consistent then using a sensor that is capable of being the sole method of tracking regardless of the speed you're moving the mouse. Or you could say, hey, the best players in the world can't notice a difference so it can't be doing any measurable harm.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> To the people used to G302 shape, do you claw it?
> 
> I palm grip and wanted to try out a G502 but refrained from buying it since I heard of the G303.
> 
> For information I have normal hands and to me it seems like palming it would be kind of an issue.


I fingertip mostly, but I don't find palming it terribly uncomfortable with large hands. Nothing about the shape really screams that it's not a good palm mouse so best bet is just try it and see if it gives you problems.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> I actually find the claw grip perfect on the G502, at least for me and I have medium size hands, I haven't found anything better. Heavy weight or not, it's just so comfortable for me.


my thumb rests on the sniper button when I palm, not the best thing ;\


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> To the people used to G302 shape, do you claw it?
> 
> I palm grip and wanted to try out a G502 but refrained from buying it since I heard of the G303.
> 
> For information I have normal hands and to me it seems like palming it would be kind of an issue.


I have a hybrid palm/claw style. I have fairly large hands. The mouse is the first one I've been comfortable with since my G9x. I've even asked Logitech twice from Twitter to revamp the G9X. The G302 is alright. It's by no means the G9x as far as comfort, but then again, nothing really is....

One day Logitech will wise up and listen to me and the rest of the G9x peeps out there. One day.... *hangs his head*


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> There's a lot of hate posts in this thread, where people declare the shape as being straight up bad, without qualifying their post in any way as just an opinion.


I must say it looks a bit odd, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

I actually HOPE I end up liking this shape considering the Sensor in it. Otherwise I'm just going to go back to the FK2 again :x (not perfect but shape uber alles).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Sometimes I wonder REALLY what the "performance seekers" of this forum actually wants.


Alot of older mice had simple yet effective shapes, hence the desire of many to get something "newer" into a similar package... without having to settle for "less".

WMO users, Xai users looking for a no accel option, MX518 users, ....


----------



## trriL

Is there any confirmation that the shape will be the G302 shape?
IMO, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to release a new 'high-end' version of a product thag came out 3 months ago, and keep the same shape. Especially considering how a lot of people were polarized by the G302 shape.
Even if this is the G302, putting a top-tier sensor in it would be a huge step forward towards small mice being considered 1st rate mice.

Hold your horses guys


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Is there any confirmation that the shape will be the G302 shape?


From the leaked video it looked exactly like the G302 shell with a modification to the feet to "help" prevent the wobbling.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Is there any confirmation that the shape will be the G302 shape?
> IMO, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to release a new 'high-end' version of a product thag came out 3 months ago, and keep the same shape. Especially considering how a lot of people were polarized by the G302 shape.
> Even if this is the G302, putting a top-tier sensor in it would be a huge step forward towards small mice being considered 1st rate mice.
> 
> Hold your horses guys


There was a video shared that's now deleted. In that video, the mouse appeared to be the same shape as the G302.

The G303 was also already up as product page on the German Amazon website, but that page is now also deleted. That product page had pictures of the mouse and it looked very similar to the G302. The only differences were a braided cable and two added feet on the bottom, also some different colors for the lighting.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Is there any confirmation that the shape will be the G302 shape?
> 
> 
> 
> From the leaked video it looked exactly like the G302 shell with a modification to the feet to "help" prevent the wobbling.
Click to expand...

Ah OK, I missed that.


----------



## trriL

Been doing some research on the G303.
Heres a teaser video from Logitech titled "*Fast and Nimble*": 



Kind of funny if you think about what people have been calling Logitech's G mice of late: 90s *spaceships*.

MacMall has the *G303* listed (no picture or stock)
Manufacturer part # is listed as "910-004380"
Price is $85.99 USD.
They also have it listed as 6 button.

Logitech Gaming Facebook *3/03*/15:
"Going to PAX East? We'll be at booth 4092 with *Star Citizen*, special guests and *more*! We can't wait to see you there."

Yeah, guys I'd bet it's going to be announced or atleast shown at PAX east.

Sorry for the loominati-esque post... Also don't look at the post # of this post and divide by two, thanks.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> at the very least it should be fun to compare the am010 and 3366 in identical mice.


I can't wait to do this. I have never tried a 3366 mouse but I have read a lot of praise about it.

It's really the only sensor missing in my collection for me to have an understanding of what I like and don't like in today's market.


----------



## Xicu

Anyone has that leaked video and is willing to share it with me?

Thank you.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xicu*
> 
> Anyone has that leaked video and is willing to share it with me?
> 
> Thank you.


It's not much to see really, just a mouse flying through space.

I wish I was kidding.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> It's not much to see really, just a mouse flying through space.
> 
> I wish I was kidding.


yup, That's basically it.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> It's not much to see really, just a mouse flying through space.
> 
> I wish I was kidding.


Another Star Wars abortion being flung onto the nerds of the World







.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> After mouse release i'll be waiting for
> 
> r0ach's seal of approval
> Ino's review (or any other decent review)


DITTO







.

Through with spending anymore money on Logitech's latest junk pile, unless r0ach himself officially approves of it.......


----------



## JustinSane

Well what the hell is this? No announcement yet but Linus just put out a review for it?






WOOT NVM BOYS

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303?wt.mc_id=global_g303

Just pre-ordered







.

Dude in the Linus video confirmed the cable is better!


----------



## yukino

Finally *****es!!

Justin tell me how long does it take with the PreOrder thing.

Pre-Order time.


----------



## MasterBash

This is awesome. 3366, braided cable (dont know if its good), seems like the new mouse feet edges wont be an issue... They also added onboard memory to store more profiles........ and keyboard macros, thats a first.

Almost the perfect mouse for me. If I could, I would tweak a few things, thats about it.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Finally *****es!!
> 
> Justin tell me how long does it take with the PreOrder thing.
> 
> Pre-Order time.


Haha IDK dude I waited a long time for the G402 to ship when I pre-ordered it. I wanna say it took almost a whole month back then. Hopefully this time it's quicker.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> DITTO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Through with spending anymore money on Logitech's latest junk pile, unless r0ach himself officially approves of it.......


Actually I don't think that i like the shape.


----------



## yukino

Just bought it for 64,99€, coupons ftw.


----------



## Maximillion

Preordered. Call me a sucker but it was inevitable


----------



## edyago

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Well what the hell is this? No announcement yet but Linus just put out a review for it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOOT NVM BOYS
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303?wt.mc_id=global_g303
> 
> Just pre-ordered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Dude in the Linus video confirmed the cable is better!


Hola!

I didn't like the cable on the G402 or G100s and as I mentioned in the video, the cable's too flexible for my liking since I use a bungee. I mean, it's such a hard balance to find and even then that won't suit everyone.


----------



## doomleika

Question to @CPateWill this released in Asia


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edyago*
> 
> Hola!
> 
> I didn't like the cable on the G402 or G100s and as I mentioned in the video, the cable's too flexible for my liking since I use a bungee. I mean, it's such a hard balance to find and even then that won't suit everyone.


Hey! Great review! I'm hoping the cord is better for me since I don't use a bungee







.


----------



## edyago

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Hey! Great review! I'm hoping the cord is better for me since I don't use a bungee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It probably will. The build feels pretty premium, it's really quite supple. When I didn't have it in the bungee when I was testing, I didn't find it causing any issues even when it was bumping up against things on the desk.

And thanks! I was worried about how in-depth I could be and what not. First video and I had a very limited amount of time to do it. Thought it was pretty terribad but I'm glad you found it useful. =D


----------



## yukino

@edyago it was gud! Keep up the good work.


----------



## hslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edyago*
> 
> It probably will. The build feels pretty premium, it's really quite supple. When I didn't have it in the bungee when I was testing, I didn't find it causing any issues even when it was bumping up against things on the desk.
> 
> And thanks! I was worried about how in-depth I could be and what not. First video and I had a very limited amount of time to do it. Thought it was pretty terribad but I'm glad you found it useful. =D


thanks for your review,

btw which mice do you prefer between KPM and G303? I am asking because I currently have KPM and I really wanted to use G502 because of the 3366 sensor but it was just too heavy for me so I couldn't use it. Now that G303 is rocking 3366 and much lighter maybe I should switch over from KPM? What do you think?


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edyago*
> 
> It probably will. The build feels pretty premium, it's really quite supple. When I didn't have it in the bungee when I was testing, I didn't find it causing any issues even when it was bumping up against things on the desk.
> 
> And thanks! I was worried about how in-depth I could be and what not. First video and I had a very limited amount of time to do it. Thought it was pretty terribad but I'm glad you found it useful. =D


Yea you covered pretty much everything I wanted to know about it. I demand Linus to let you do more vids!


----------



## yukino

Oh almost forgot to ask.. I have rly small hands and got the G502, so I guess the G303 fits better for me? Hopefully.

Fingertip grip.


----------



## Ximplicite

is this good for moba gaming and claw grip?? thanks


----------



## edyago

If the G303/2 shape works for you, then it works. I find the KPM a bit hard for me to hold on to when my hands are dry but the G303, while incredibly easy to hold, makes my hand cramp up. It's probably just a matter of getting used to it.

I recommend trying the shape in-store or something. It all really hinges on the shape. If I committed to adjusting for the G303, I could definitely see myself loving it. It feels so light, compact, flick shots were super easy as it felt like the mouse was just a part of my hand, the clicks are the best I've felt. Responsive and consistent without being too sensitive. Logitech did a lot right with it.

Added: The click alone makes it great for MOBAs. As for claw grip, it would depend on where you make contact besides the fingers. For me, the angular nature of the back 'caused a bit of soreness in my palm under the base of my pinky unless I adjusted my grip to accommodate the G303.


----------



## Dreyka

Same shape as G302

Additional mouse feet on the bottom for better balance

PMW-3366 instead of AM010

AM010 malfunctions around 2.7m/s (no smoothing below 2000 CPI). PMW-3366 malfunctions around 7m/s and doesn't have any smoothing. PMW-3366 is the best sensor on the market and currently Logitech exclusive.

RGB lighting

Braided cable

Same weight as G302

MSRP is $69.99 but I expect the price on Amazon will end up being around $59.


----------



## trriL

I'm not sure if anyone is interested but this is the full video Logitech put up:




Kind of a basic overview, but it's getting me hyped up though.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> Same shape as G302
> 
> Additional mouse feet on the bottom for better balance
> 
> PMW-3366 instead of AM010
> 
> AM010 malfunctions around 2.7m/s (no smoothing below 2000 CPI). PMW-3366 malfunctions around 7m/s and doesn't have any smoothing. PMW-3366 is the best sensor on the market and currently Logitech exclusive.
> RGB lighting
> 
> Braided cable
> 
> Same weight as G302
> 
> MSRP is $69.99 but I expect the price on Amazon will end up being around $59.


Wouldn't be so sure about that.. Amazon listed it for 69,99 like some days ago.

http://www.amazon.de/Logitech-G303%C2%A0Daedalus%C2%A0Apex-Gaming-Maus-schwarz/dp/B00U18XNG4/ref=sr_1_12?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1425551260&sr=1-12&keywords=The+Apex

here you go


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> Same shape as G302
> 
> Additional mouse feet on the bottom for better balance
> 
> PMW-3366 instead of AM010
> 
> AM010 malfunctions around 2.7m/s (no smoothing below 2000 CPI). PMW-3366 malfunctions around 7m/s and doesn't have any smoothing. PMW-3366 is the best sensor on the market and currently Logitech exclusive.
> RGB lighting
> 
> Braided cable
> 
> Same weight as G302
> 
> MSRP is $69.99 but I expect the price on Amazon will end up being around $59.


edit: im wrong


----------



## yukino

Hmm who is faster Amazon or Logitech? Some1 know?

Already ordered on the Logitech Site.. but I've got a code for 10$ off on Amazon.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Hmm who is faster Amazon or Logitech? Some1 know?
> 
> Already ordered on the Logitech Site.. but I've got a code for 10$ off on Amazon.


I assume logitech.com preorders will go out first.


----------



## LogitechFan2

*Think twice before purchasing anything from this company. Their ways have changed drastically. Logitech's customer service and warranty is nothing but a joke. Read their forum for other examples. They lie, ignore you and even steal your stuff!*









http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Community-Feedback/Horrible-Logitech-customer-service-under-the-new-management/m-p/1370727


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LogitechFan2*
> 
> *Think twice before purchasing anything from this company. Their ways have changed drastically. Logitech's customer service and warranty is nothing but a joke. Read their forum for other examples. They lie, ignore you and even steal your stuff!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Community-Feedback/Horrible-Logitech-customer-service-under-the-new-management/m-p/1370727


Still better than Razer and Steelseries.


----------



## Nilizum

i'd buy on amazon for a better refund policy.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Yukino



Originally Posted by *yukino* 


> Wouldn't be so sure about that.. Amazon listed it for 69,99 like some days ago.
> 
> http://www.amazon.de/Logitech-G303%C2%A0Daedalus%C2%A0Apex-Gaming-Maus-schwarz/dp/B00U18XNG4/ref=sr_1_12?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1425551260&sr=1-12&keywords=The+Apex
> 
> here you go






Pre-order price will be the same as MSRP. It may take a few months for the price to drop but it will do just as the G502 is being sold at $69 rather than $79.99 currently on Amazon.


----------



## LogitechFan2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Still better than Razer and Steelseries.


I have not used anything but Logitech products so I can't comment on that. But I guess anything is better than Logitech's service nowadays (they used to be great not long ago), as they have basically stolen my G910... So yeah, maybe their hardware is a little better than Razer, but if you need to deal with warranty service... well, you're screwed.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> Pre-order price will be the same as MSRP. It may take a few months for the price to drop but it will do just as the G502 is being sold at $69 rather than $79.99 currently on Amazon.


The g502 took a pretty darn long time to drop since it was selling so well.

In Australia, the mouse was AUD$60 (usd$50) when the mouse was still selling at $80 in the us...

america loves their sniper buttons, however i think that this mouse will drop in price a lot quicker than the g502 simply because most mainstream consumers will buy the g502 over the g303 since they will be the same price.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone is interested but this is the full video Logitech put up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of a basic overview, but it's getting me hyped up though.


Haha, coming from a G302, i wasn't very particular with that shape. After watching that video though I got hyped too LOL. GG effective advertising.


----------



## doomleika

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LogitechFan2*
> 
> *Think twice before purchasing anything from this company. Their ways have changed drastically. Logitech's customer service and warranty is nothing but a joke. Read their forum for other examples. They lie, ignore you and even steal your stuff!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Community-Feedback/Horrible-Logitech-customer-service-under-the-new-management/m-p/1370727






Your link says nothing but a logitech report form.

Care to bring a screenshot?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LogitechFan2*
> 
> I have not used anything but Logitech products so I can't comment on that. But I guess anything is better than Logitech's service nowadays (they used to be great not long ago), as they have basically stolen my G910... So yeah, maybe their hardware is a little better than Razer, but if you need to deal with warranty service... well, you're screwed.


I could not read the thread you linked earlier on my phone, but Logitech still has one of the best customer services. If you expect anything better from Razer or Steelseries then you are in for a bad surprise.

How did they "steal" your 910?


----------



## rebecca black

Any idea when this will be in stores? I'm definitely gonna need to try this shape first before I commit to a $70 mouse.


----------



## yukino

Ordered from Logitech with a 5€ discount coupon and Amazon with a 14€ discount. Will see who is shipping first.
That first world problems tho..


----------



## LogitechFan2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> 
> Your link says nothing but a logitech report form.
> 
> Care to bring a screenshot?


Oh those sneaky.... I just realized this particular section of their forum is INVISIBLE to non registered users! That's how they are hiding all those complains!










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I could not read the thread you linked earlier on my phone, but Logitech still has one of the best customer services. If you expect anything better from Razer or Steelseries then you are in for a bad surprise.
> 
> How did they "steal" your 910?


I've attached a screenshot above as they are hiding this section of the forum apparently (I'm wondering why... oh maybe because it full of complains, that's why!) I've been satisfied with their products, but their service and warranty support is horrible. How they stole it, very easy, I sent it to them for a replacement and they took it without sending anything back for more than a month now.

Edit: and by the way, I posted it on March 1st. As of today, March 5th, still nothing, no reaction of any kind from Logitech (forums or their support ticket).


----------



## justnvc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LogitechFan2*
> 
> Oh those sneaky.... I just realized this particular section of their forum is INVISIBLE to non registered users! That's how they are hiding all those complains!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've attached a screenshot above as they are hiding this section of the forum apparently (I'm wondering why... oh maybe because it full of complains, that's why!) I've been satisfied with their products, but their service and warranty support is horrible. How they stole it, very easy, I sent it to them for a replacement and they took it without sending anything back for more than a month now.
> 
> Edit: and by the way, I posted it on March 1st. As of today, March 5th, still nothing, no reaction of any kind from Logitech (forums or their support ticket).


To add my experience. I recently dealt with customer service to return a product for a full refund from UK, no issues, I did it over the phone and they arranged for collection and complete refund of the product. The support I received was as great as I remember, based on the few times I have dealt with Logitech both several years ago and just a few weeks ago, I would recommend them in a heart beat. They are one of the few companies I'll willingly throw money at and I still intend on purchasing products from Logitech in future. Obviously there will be those with issues, but I personally have had nothing but good experiences.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LogitechFan2*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh those sneaky.... I just realized this particular section of their forum is INVISIBLE to non registered users! That's how they are hiding all those complains!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've attached a screenshot above as they are hiding this section of the forum apparently (I'm wondering why... oh maybe because it full of complains, that's why!) I've been satisfied with their products, but their service and warranty support is horrible. How they stole it, very easy, I sent it to them for a replacement and they took it without sending anything back for more than a month now.
> 
> Edit: and by the way, I posted it on March 1st. As of today, March 5th, still nothing, no reaction of any kind from Logitech (forums or their support ticket).


Have your ticket number for @CPate or guys at http://www.reddit.com/r/LogitechG/ to verify your status.


----------



## LogitechFan2

Thanks, will try reddit link and post there. As of CPate, he was online Last Online: 1 week, 2 days ago.

justnvc - I guess everything is better in Europe, including Logitech warranty service. Here in NA they used to be great but if you follow the complains in their forums (and not hardware/software related complains, but the warranty service itself, which they are apparently hiding from non-registered users) you'll see it went down like a rock in the last 6-8 months.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Hmm who is faster Amazon or Logitech? Some1 know?
> 
> Already ordered on the Logitech Site.. but I've got a code for 10$ off on Amazon.


Faster? Almost certainly Logitech's web store. I bought and returned my G302 through Logitech's store and the process was terrible. Definitely wait for Amazon IMO.


----------



## Vorsplummi

I don't know how it is in America but in EU we have very strong laws to protect consumers. RMA's are always dealt with retailers, rarely with manufacturers.


----------



## andromeduck

Too bad about the identical 302 shape. I was hoping they'd have updated it a little but I guess not.

The wait continues.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Faster? Almost certainly Logitech's web store. I bought and returned my G302 through Logitech's store and the process was terrible. Definitely wait for Amazon IMO.


Thanks, ye just ordered on Amazon for 55€.


----------



## royalkilla408

Anyone got the Amazon link for US? Can't find it. Thanks.


----------



## metal571

Well, you guys all know what this mouse is now.

I've had the chance to play with it for the past couple weeks and I'd say for a fingertip FPS player it's probably the best mouse out there. Everything is as good as it sounds. G302 shape, braided cable, 3366, very low weight, super low button latency. I don't know what the software looks like as I haven't gotten the chance to use any software yet. That's all. But yep, it's the G302 shape, love it or hate it.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Well, you guys all know what this mouse is now.
> 
> I've had the chance to play with it for the past couple weeks and I'd say for a fingertip FPS player it's probably the best mouse out there. Everything is as good as it sounds. G302 shape, braided cable, 3366, very low weight, super low button latency. I don't know what the software looks like as I haven't gotten the chance to use any software yet. That's all. But yep, it's the G302 shape, love it or hate it.


When is the review?


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Well, you guys all know what this mouse is now.
> 
> I've had the chance to play with it for the past couple weeks and I'd say for a fingertip FPS player it's probably the best mouse out there. Everything is as good as it sounds. G302 shape, braided cable, 3366, very low weight, super low button latency. I don't know what the software looks like as I haven't gotten the chance to use any software yet. That's all. But yep, it's the G302 shape, love it or hate it.


lower weight than the 302?

-website at least shows the same weight, but they've posted nonsense up there before...


----------



## justnvc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Well, you guys all know what this mouse is now.
> 
> I've had the chance to play with it for the past couple weeks and I'd say for a fingertip FPS player it's probably the best mouse out there. Everything is as good as it sounds. G302 shape, braided cable, 3366, very low weight, super low button latency. I don't know what the software looks like as I haven't gotten the chance to use any software yet. That's all. But yep, it's the G302 shape, love it or hate it.


I thought you had this before release? At least that's what your posts suggested. How come you haven't used the software?!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justnvc*
> 
> I thought you had this before release? At least that's what your posts suggested. How come you haven't used the software?!


Wasn't given to us. I thought it was supposed to be before release but I never got to use it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> When is the review?


When it's done. Also I need the software.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> lower weight than the 302?
> 
> -website at least shows the same weight, but they've posted nonsense up there before...


I feel like it is almost the same but maybe just barely heavier. It's hard to tell by hand, and I don't have a scale.

EDIT: I'm bozo-brained and I did have the software but probably archived the email by accident.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Question to @CPateWill this released in Asia


In Japan, yes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LogitechFan2*
> 
> Thanks, will try reddit link and post there. As of CPate, he was online Last Online: 1 week, 2 days ago.


I have been busy with other things. Please PM me your case number and I will escalate.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> In Japan, yes.


Any chance in Taiwan/HongKong/China?


----------



## CPate

I can't say there's no chance but at this time the product is only planned to ship to Japan.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I can't say there's no chance but at this time the product is only planned to ship to Japan.


Crap.

Thanks for the info


----------



## yukino

@CPate

How long does it take with the Pre-orders? Just want to know, cuz never bought something directly on the logitech site.

I'm from germany btw.


----------



## kifkiz

any ETA for australia @CPate ?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justnvc*
> 
> I thought you had this before release? At least that's what your posts suggested. How come you haven't used the software?!


Unsurprisingly it uses LGS anyway.


----------



## Dreyka

G303 uses a different cable to the G502 but flexibility is the same.


----------



## Melan

My amazon still doesn't have it


----------



## detto87

So... the G302 is more expensive than the G502 which has a more expensive wheel and overall bigger feature list.

I'll wait till it drops from 70 Euros (which is ridiculously high) down to sth like 40-50 Euros.


----------



## yukino

Ye, 70€ is 2 much money.. thats why I've looked for coupons and bought it for 55€.


----------



## SmashTV

Ahh people wanted this price be damned and are walking off of it already.

Also waiting for the knuckle head to say it's still behind MLT04.


----------



## Sencha

Im Making it rain on my screen.....nothing is happening.


----------



## SONICDK

oh well ._.

89,10$ in denmark


----------



## maxolina

I loved the shape of my Xai, while I'm not really liking my Avior, do you think that shapewise I'm going to like it?

I use a fingertip grip.


----------



## Cyro999

I'm throwing money at the screen, where can i buy this in UK?


----------



## Melan

Logitech uk site has it for 55 gbp.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Logitech uk site has it for 55 gbp.


Got it, thanks







(though it's very hidden)

do we know when they will be for sale? I'l probably order through amazon for better support and shipping


----------



## Melan

Hopefully this week, or next one. I wanna see tests people will do tbh, I might just buy g300s if it's turns out to be bad.


----------



## donutvampire

I am going to wait until it is released on the Amazon US site, with amazon prime i will probably get it faster and cheaper then with the logitech site. They trying to charge me 13 dollars for express shipping







amazon prime next day air is like 3 dollars


----------



## detto87

I'm really debating on whether to get this or not.

The low weight of the G100S (weight removed, so it's ~70gr) just feels amazing. Flick shots are so easy with that thing. With the ~90gr of the G303 I'm adding almost 30% of weight. The buttons will probably feel better, but won't really add a benefit as far as I can see.

Has anyone a detailed comparison about G100S and G302 shape?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I'm really debating on whether to get this or not.
> 
> The low weight of the G100S (weight removed, so it's ~70gr) just feels amazing. Flick shots are so easy with that thing. With the ~90gr of the G303 I'm adding almost 30% of weight. The buttons will probably feel better, but won't really add a benefit as far as I can see.
> 
> Has anyone a detailed comparison about G100S and G302 shape?


87/70 = 24.3% more weight


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> I am going to wait until it is released on the Amazon US site, with amazon prime i will probably get it faster and cheaper then with the logitech site. They trying to charge me 13 dollars for express shipping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amazon prime next day air is like 3 dollars


I'm kind of surprised it's not yet. Don't they usually pop up at the same time as the announcements? Some of the other amazon sites have it listed.


----------



## AnimalK

Pre-ordered directly from logitech.


----------



## yukino

I just asked Amazon and they said 3 Weeks minimum... I'm not that patience boys. :O
Didn't ask Logitech yet, but ordered there 2. . maybe the same like 3 weeks. Let's see who is shipping faster.


----------



## xmr1

I'll probably try out the shape now that the hardware justifies it but still looks horrifying to grip from afar. Still holding out hope they one day decide to do an updated G9/G9x.


----------



## metal571

Btw don't worry about performance. 3366 in here feels organic and I did an Enotus test the other day. Over 6 m/s. I couldn't even swipe any faster. It was painful and I had to use my whole arm as fast as possible to even get to 6.


----------



## maxolina

Can someone tell me how it's gonna feel shape wise compared to a xai / sensei???

thanks alot


----------



## popups

Funny how the Linus Tech video reviewer has a hard time rationalizing the reuse of a shape designed for a finger tip grip / strategy game player.

The weight is too high for a mouse that short. It's not a light weight mouse, more a medium weight.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Dude in the Linus video confirmed the cable is better!


A braid does not make a cable better. If you added a braid to the G302 cable you would still consider it bad. If you took the braid off the G303 cable you might think it is better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Wasn't given to us. I thought it was supposed to be before release but I never got to use it.
> When it's done. Also I need the software.
> I feel like it is almost the same but maybe just barely heavier. It's hard to tell by hand, and I don't have a scale.
> 
> EDIT: I'm bozo-brained and I did have the software but probably archived the email by accident.


Sounds more like a reviewer than a "tester" if you didn't have the mouse that long.

I already heard what I needed to know with the Linus Tech video review.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Ahh people wanted this price be damned and are walking off of it already.
> 
> Also waiting for the knuckle head to say it's still behind MLT04.


I would seriously consider this mouse if the shape was good for other grip types. No point of spending money on something you will regret. Most people are likely to regret purchasing the G302/3 considering all the people I have seen complain about the shape, even those people on YouTube complain.

A sensor's (perceived) performance is highly dependent on the MCU. The MLT-04 has a built-in MCU, so there isn't an inconsistency like with modern mice.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Has anyone a detailed comparison about G100S and G302 shape?


The biggest problem for me is the aggressive diamond shape on the sides. A few pages back you can see that someone who shares this opinion tried to sand down this area. On the sides where the plastic changes from textured to glossy the mouse gets very wide. This forced me to abandon my preferred grip and start gripping the mouse more near the front to avoid this area. The G100s on the other hand allows you to grip it however the hell you want which makes it a MUCH better shape for me. Even holding the G302 in a specific way to avoid these flares, the G302 feels very wide and it feels like you're aiming with a more opened hand which feels much worse to me than a more closed hand. This is the reason why I prefer a claw grip over palm grip.

And yes, there is a very noticeable difference in weight between the G100s w/o internal weight and the G302/3.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A braid does not make a cable better. If you added a braid to the G302 cable you would still consider it bad. If you took the braid off the G303 cable you might think it is better.


The Zowie mice really made me appreciate a good non braided cable.


----------



## Melan

Yeah, Zowie cables are nice. I might swap it for one from my dead EC1.


----------



## Aventadoor

Instant order for me!
I hope I get it next week


----------



## edyago

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The biggest problem for me is the aggressive diamond shape on the sides. A few pages back you can see that someone who shares this opinion tried to sand down this area. On the sides where the plastic changes from textured to glossy the mouse gets very wide. This forced me to abandon my preferred grip and start gripping the mouse more near the front to avoid this area. The G100s on the other hand allows you to grip it however the hell you want which makes it a MUCH better shape for me. Even holding the G302 in a specific way to avoid these flares, the G302 feels very wide and it feels like you're aiming with a more opened hand which feels much worse to me than a more closed hand. This is the reason why I prefer a claw grip over palm grip.
> 
> And yes, there is a very noticeable difference in weight between the G100s w/o internal weight and the G302/3.


The angular nature of the mouse keeps me from making it my primary mouse too.


----------



## dmbr

Hm...can't find it on the U.S. Amazon...is it not available to order in The States yet?


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edyago*
> 
> The angular nature of the mouse keeps me from making it my primary mouse too.


The diamond shape also makes pressing the side buttons quite awkward, since they are placed on either side of the "corner" of the shape--I can't rest my thumb between the two, if that makes sense.


----------



## donutvampire

im
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> The diamond shape also makes pressing the side buttons quite awkward, since they are placed on either side of the "corner" of the shape--I can't rest my thumb between the two, if that makes sense.


Im not sure i follow, i have no problem pressing the bottoms with my grip. Here is a pic of my grip on the g302


----------



## munchzilla

sweet. I'm going to have to wait to purchase it unfortunately.








moving to Canada in less than 2 weeks. at least it is cheaper there, by $30


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> im
> Im not sure i follow, i have no problem pressing the bottoms with my grip. Here is a pic of my grip on the g302


you palm it more; my thumb rests farther back relative to the buttons so it has to reach over the hump.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> im
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> The diamond shape also makes pressing the side buttons quite awkward, since they are placed on either side of the "corner" of the shape--I can't rest my thumb between the two, if that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not sure i follow, i have no problem pressing the bottoms with my grip. Here is a pic of my grip on the g302
Click to expand...

Ofc not with a almost palmgrip








I for example use a fingertip grip and I want to hold the mouse where the edge on the curve is, which is impossible and makes it SUPER wide.
So I have to abandon my fingertip grip and hold the mouse infront of the curve, which both hurts my hand and is horrible for me because I cannot use my fingers to adjust the cursor.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Wasn't given to us. I thought it was supposed to be before release but I never got to use it.


Wait, you didn't have this before release? So I guess it's not the mysterious mouse in your top 3 and the wait continues.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> G303 uses a different cable to the G502 but flexibility is the same.


Wow, that is disappointing. It's honestly rather laughable that Logitech would change the cable but not to a better one. So it is just a blatant marketing move (braided sells), performance be damned.

never mind, i'm dumb and read 502 as 302
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Ahh people wanted this price be damned and are walking off of it already.
> 
> Also waiting for the knuckle head to say it's still behind MLT04.


OCN isn't one entity of opinion; there are some people who will buy a mouse at any price and others who won't. As for the other comment, I recall you complaining about OCN going downhill so it seems strange you're instigating a user without provocation (especially when he has actually said the Finalmouse sensor is good enough to replace MLT04).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Ofc not with a almost palmgrip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I for example use a fingertip grip and I want to hold the mouse where the edge on the curve is, which is impossible and makes it SUPER wide.
> So I have to abandon my fingertip grip and hold the mouse infront of the curve, which both hurts my hand and is horrible for me because I cannot use my fingers to adjust the cursor.


The Sensei/Kana/Kinzu shape has a the flare further back, making it more friendly for finger tip use for different hands. The WMO is similar in that regard. Same for mice that are wide, but have straight sides.

I like a mouse that fills my hand because I require extreme precision. I like a mouse to take up the "slack" that is natrually part of the human hand. I find the palm area to reduce precision and speed during stopping and starting movement if the mouse doesn't fill it completely. Also reaction times can be slower and the amount of click per 10 seconds is lower if the fingers don't have a slight bit of tension caused by a mouse with a higher front height and natural curvature. The end result also makes lifting easier.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Wait, you didn't have this before release? So I guess it's not the mysterious mouse in your top 3 and the wait continues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that is disappointing. It's honestly rather laughable that Logitech would change the cable but not to a better one. So it is just a blatant marketing move (braided sells), performance be damned.
> OCN isn't one entity of opinion; there are some people who will buy a mouse at any price and others who won't. As for the other comment, I recall you complaining about OCN going downhill so it seems strange you're instigating a user without provocation (especially when he has actually said the Finalmouse sensor is good enough to replace MLT04).


is the G502 cable that bad?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> is the G502 cable that bad?


No, I'm just dumb. I apparently skimmed too quickly and thought the flexibility was being compared to the 302, not 502. The 502's is fine, so sorry Logitech, you actually did good. >_>


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> is the G502 cable that bad?


The Reddit post could be misleading. Maybe he meant the cable is different in design because of the shell, but not different in it's composition.

Why add a braid if the cable is as flexible as the G502's cable? Oh, because a marketing gimmick. I understand now: competitive FPS gamers want braided cables and MOBA gamers don't.


----------



## Ino.

The cable on the G303 is great for a braided cable, it's light and flexible.

I tested this mouse since November (I think) last year and if the shape/weight fits you I don't see any mouse that could compete with this.

I might put up a review at some point, but most has been mentioned already.

If your interested in MouseTester screens you can find them in this album:


http://imgur.com/w2hHm


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> No, I'm just dumb. I apparently skimmed too quickly and thought the flexibility was being compared to the 302, not 502. The 502's is fine, so sorry Logitech, you actually did good. >_>


yeah it looked to me as if he meant same flexibility as G502. I sure hope so, though







good then!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The Reddit post could be misleading. Maybe he meant the cable is different in design because of the shell, but not different in it's composition.
> 
> Why add a braid if the cable is as flexible as the G502's cable? Oh, because a marketing gimmick. I understand now: competitive FPS gamers want braided cables and MOBA gamers don't.


might be a good braid, we'll see


----------



## Xicu

Does this mouse worth a shot if I've a palm grip and a small/medium hand?


----------



## Aventadoor

How is the shape for us with big hands and fingertipish grip?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> might be a good braid, we'll see


No braid will ever not interfere with my mouse pad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xicu*
> 
> Does this mouse worth a shot if I've a palm grip and a small/medium hand?


I didn't buy the G302 because the shape would not allow me to palm it as I would want. I have ~19cm hands (last time I checked). The size of the of the G302/3 is 10mm to short for me and the width in important areas is extremely thin. In other words, the mouse is more for a finger tip user, be it full finger tip or a claw type.


----------



## yukino

I have girly hands.. rly small. (but they are beautiful hands)

I'll go and try out the G302 in the next days, let's see.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I have girly hands.. rly small. (but they are beautiful hands)
> 
> I'll go and try out the G302 in the next days, let's see.


What is considered small hands? I think my hands are small, but that is relative to the people I am around.


----------



## Brightmist

I'd say 17 centimeters and lower can be considered small, 18-23 average and 24+ would be big.


----------



## yukino

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What is considered small hands? I think my hands are small, but that is relative to the people I am around.


Edit:





are those pictures okay?







I guess they are small.. all my friends got bigger hands than me.

G303 = fit or nah bro, nah?


----------



## Melan

taini gerly hands


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> If your interested in MouseTester screens you can find them in this album:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/w2hHm


It would be nice to see PCB pics instead. Since you didn't buy the mouse it wouldn't be an issue.

By the way, *the 3366 graphs look worse than the FinalMouse*. Logitech needs to work on their MCU.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Wait, you didn't have this before release? So I guess it's not the mysterious mouse in your top 3 and the wait continues.


I meant I didn't get a chance to play with the software before release. I can't remember how long I've had a prototype on hand before it was officially announced today, maybe it was a couple months after all. Ino and I probably got it around the same time. I'm too into reviewing headphones right now, I guess it's getting to my head. And nope, this is the mouse I was hyping a bit when OCN decided to go nuts on me and cracked down. Logitech wasn't happy either, so I didn't talk about it after that despite prototypes from various companies being in the hands of some OCN mice people being quite a common practice. I never did reveal any specifics before release. Someone even PM'd me about what I was talking about when they were drunk I think. Hilarious.

It's replaced my Avior. Or at least become a mouse I have in my normal rotation, alongside the FK1 and Avior. Although the shape is quite odd, I don't mind it.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> taini gerly hands


I've told you!!









thats why I'm asking







hope the g303 fits for me..


----------



## metal571

I'll do a review on this thing whether you people want it or not. Although I may have to do a K701 vs Q701 review first. Also have to take a look at the software I had all along but just forgot to try out I guess.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It would be nice to see PCB pics instead. Since you didn't buy the mouse it wouldn't be an issue.
> 
> By the way, *the 3366 graphs look worse than the FinalMouse*. Logitech needs to work on their MCU.


No it doesn't, look at the 500 hz graphs (only did one for 400 CPI), they aren't significantly different.
I'm sure someone else has already opened his, I won't open mine because I don't have alternative mouse feet and I intend to use the one I have.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No it doesn't, look at the 500 hz graphs (only did one for 400 CPI), they aren't significantly different.
> I'm sure someone else has already opened his, I won't open mine because I don't have alternative mouse feet and I intend to use the one I have.


You know, I'm having hard time figuring out where's 125/500/1khz there.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No it doesn't, look at the 500 hz graphs (only did one for 400 CPI), they aren't significantly different.
> I'm sure someone else has already opened his, I won't open mine because I don't have alternative mouse feet and I intend to use the one I have.


Do you like this mouse more than your FK1?


----------



## a_ak57

I kinda wish logitech had an EVGA style step-up program with this thing.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Do you like this mouse more than your FK1?


Shape: No, Cable: No, Buttons: Yes, MWeehl: Yes, Sensor: Yes

But as I'm still satisfied with the sensor performance of the FK1 I'll probably keep using it as my main mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You know, I'm having hard time figuring out where's 125/500/1khz there.


I'll label them in the review, but you can kind of tell by how many times you see updates. The 500 Hz screen is below

G303, 400 CPI, 500 Hz



http://imgur.com/6B3gntO


----------



## ronal

I thought it was going to be priced around $49, no way will I pay $70 for it.


----------



## connectwise

Use that money, buy two (or three) 302s.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I'll label them in the review, but you can kind of tell by how many times you see updates. The 500 Hz screen is below
> 
> G303, 400 CPI, 500 Hz


Doesn't the G303 updates/squares start to look weird at ~3.15m/s until the top? Whereas the FinalMouse starts at ~4.3m/s. Isn't the line the average and the squares are the actual updates?

Maybe it's your PC. Maybe I am to detailed.

FinalMouse


G303


I know the pixel array is 900 on the 3310. I assume the pixel array is larger on the 3366 because of the default settings on the G502. How do the graphs look on 800 CPI for both the FinalMouse and G303 or G502 at 500Hz?


----------



## Ufasas

i've tried rapoo v300 3090, kana v2 3090, cms alcor 3090, and the only 3090 mouse i would recommend is zowie fk 2013, because of customised lens giving a low lift off distance, and therefore better performance with that. The rest just having awefully high 3-4 CDs LoD...........

talking about 3366, which i've got recently, lift off distance is a bless!!! if not that sensor bug out thing when you make a quick move swiping the mouse while making some angle with mousepad, this sensor should be called perfect. Passes MLT04 (have mouse too) easily, 3366 is snappy as hell, as if MLT04 got max speed upgraded. Comparing to 3090, 3366 trashes it!

g502 - is where shape doesn't matter that much for me for example, sensor perfmormance covers everything in this mouse. What i look in a mouse when choosing is shape , mouse clicks feel, sensor performance


----------



## aLv1080

I might get one just for testing if it becomes available in South America. Just because of the sensor, though.
That shape looks so freaking terrible.
But let's see how long it will take, the G502 has just started being sold here in my country...


----------



## Brightmist

I feel 3366 should be compared to 3988 and 3310 for snappiness/smoothing, max. malfunction speed and LOD. 3090 is kinda old.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Doesn't the G303 updates/squares start to look weird at ~3.15m/s until the top? Whereas the FinalMouse starts at ~4.3m/s. Isn't the line the average and the squares are the actual updates?
> 
> Maybe it's your PC. Maybe I am to detailed.
> 
> FinalMouse
> 
> 
> G303
> 
> 
> I know the pixel array is 900 on the 3310. I assume the pixel array is larger on the 3366 because of the default settings on the G502. How do the graphs look on 800 CPI for both the FinalMouse and G303 or G502 at 500Hz?


the fluctuations are mostly related to the non integer ratio of sensor's fps to usb polling rate.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the fluctuations are mostly related to the *non integer ratio of sensor's fps* to usb polling rate.


Not sure what you're saying.


----------



## qsxcv

think about what happens if your sensor runs at 2500hz and your usb polling is 1000hz


----------



## Brightmist

He's saying stuff gets rounded when transferred from mouse sensor to PC through USB because USB polling rate can't match sensor fps.

edit. and this pretty much is the reason why we need a new mouse/peripheral port for PCs.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I thought it was going to be priced around $49, no way will I pay $70 for it.


Most of the cost of a mouse is things like sensor and mcu; how many buttons doesn't significantly change the cost of production else you'd bound to see mice with the same high end sensors undercutting the price of low end mice.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> I thought it was going to be priced around $49, no way will I pay $70 for it.


$70 is too much for this mouse. 50$ would be nice, but that would be asking a lot from Logitech. $60 is about right for a 3366 sensor mouse like the G303.

The G302 should be $50 max because of the AM010 (without gyro and accelerometer). Since the G402 is $45, the G302 should be $40.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> He's saying stuff gets rounded when transferred from mouse sensor to PC through USB because USB polling rate can't match sensor fps.
> 
> edit. and this pretty much is the reason why we need a new mouse/peripheral port for PCs.


Why would sensor frame rates matter to X and Y outputs via USB? Aren't frames used to determine the X and Y direction, then translated to X and Y data to be sent to the computer over USB via MCU?


----------



## SmashTV

People complaining about price when you have turds like Final Mouse at 70 USD with poor QC no possibility for updated firmware and am OEM shell robbing consumers.

Then again people were bound to complain about something. They got what they wanted so I guess it's time to pick at something else.


----------



## Brightmist

Yes, but USB updates way slowly compared to the sensor so the movement is never 1:1.
A new mouse port designed with sole purpose of matching the update rate of advanced optical sensors of today while putting minimal strain on the CPU would be nice.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> People complaining about price when you have turds like Final Mouse at 70 USD with poor QC no possibility for updated firmware and am OEM shell robbing consumers.
> 
> Then again people were bound to complain about something. They got what they wanted so I guess it's time to pick at something else.


Price wouldn't be an issue if the mouse was better. If the shape was good for all grip types and various hand sizes. If the side buttons were more like the main buttons and the scroll wheel wasn't some plain piece of rubber.

Let's not forget what people have been complaining about since the announcement of the G302. Which the G303 inherited. People will complain about that even if the price was $0.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> People complaining about price when you have turds like Final Mouse at 70 USD with poor QC no possibility for updated firmware and am OEM shell robbing consumers.
> 
> Then again people were bound to complain about something. They got what they wanted so I guess it's time to pick at something else.


last time i checked nobody asked for a g302 shell with 3366, they asked for g100s shell in 3366. so so, they didnt "get what they wanted"


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> last time i checked nobody asked for a g302 shell with 3366, they asked for g100s shell in 3366. so so, they didnt "get what they wanted"


I wanted an improved G100 shape that was a little longer, light to medium weight, side buttons, no braided cable and a 3366 sensor. With the G302 you get same sensor (although updated), non braided cable, similar length, more weight, side buttons and a worse shape (for most people). The G303 had one major improvement [sensor] and added a braid to the cable. Two mice I wasn't looking for, just one has a really good sensor.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> He's saying stuff gets rounded when transferred from mouse sensor to PC through USB because USB polling rate can't match sensor fps.
> 
> edit. and this pretty much is the reason why we need a new mouse/peripheral port for PCs.


for that example, the usb frames will either show 2 or 3 sensor updates, and in mousetester you will see a \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ pattern.
so the fact that we see these periodic fluctuations isn't a sign that the mcu or sensor isn't behaving correctly. it's just that the sensor framerate isn't perfectly in-sync with the usb frames. in practice, this really doesn't matter anyway as the synchronization between the game framerate, monitor refresh rate, and usb polling is typically much worse than this. unless you're playing cs1.6 or quake where the framerate is capped to 100 or 125/250

imo 1000hz is good enough in the same sense that 300ppi on a phone's display is "good enough"


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> People complaining about price when you have turds like Final Mouse at 70 USD with poor QC no possibility for updated firmware and am OEM shell robbing consumers.
> 
> Then again people were bound to complain about something. They got what they wanted so I guess it's time to pick at something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price wouldn't be an issue if the mouse was better. If the shape was good for all grip types and various hand sizes. If the side buttons were more like the main buttons and the scroll wheel wasn't some plain piece of rubber.
> 
> Let's not forget what people have been complaining about since the announcement of the G302. Which the G303 inherited. People will complain about that even if the price was $0.
Click to expand...

All grip types? That's impossible there is a stark difference in needs between a good palm and fingertip mouse. Also side buttons like the main buttons? No mouse manufacture uses the same switches for their side buttons seems like a random request. Scroll wheel plan rubber? Most scroll wheels are rubber coated plastics and many people prefer this the only thing people care about is the feel of the scroll and the feel of the click.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> People complaining about price when you have turds like Final Mouse at 70 USD with poor QC no possibility for updated firmware and am OEM shell robbing consumers.
> 
> Then again people were bound to complain about something. They got what they wanted so I guess it's time to pick at something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> last time i checked nobody asked for a g302 shell with 3366, they asked for g100s shell in 3366. so so, they didn't "get what they wanted"
Click to expand...

Like 3 people asked for G100s shell everyone else wanted side buttons, so i guess they wanted a G3 shell.


----------



## detto87

So ... shape.

To put it simple.

Is it a good claw grip shape?


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> last time i checked nobody asked for a g302 shell with 3366, they asked for g100s shell in 3366. so so, they didnt "get what they wanted"


Some do. Some want a g3 shell. I want a g302 over all of them.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> last time i checked nobody asked for a g302 shell with 3366, they asked for g100s shell in 3366. so so, they didnt "get what they wanted"


The primary complaint of the G302 from the armchair representatives of all the " real professional gamers" was that it didn't have a 3366 in it. Apparently it is a waste to put the AM010 inside anything.

People wanted something light with that sensor and now that it's here we get the influx of but but buts.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> last time i checked nobody asked for a g302 shell with 3366, they asked for g100s shell in 3366. so so, they didnt "get what they wanted"
> 
> 
> 
> The primary complaint of the G302 from the armchair representatives of all the " real professional gamers" was that it didn't have a 3366 in it. Apparently it is a waste to put the AM010 inside anything.
> 
> People wanted something light with that sensor and now that it's here we get the influx of but but buts.
Click to expand...

I'm sure 87g is not light enough for some. To me anything under 80g is too light it's like nothing which is not what I want as a fingertip grip user I need a feel for the mouse else i'll just pick it up too much and mess up the tracking. 90g-100g is about perfect for me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> So ... shape.
> 
> To put it simple.
> 
> Is it a good claw grip shape?


I'd say it depends on the size of your hand, if it's a very large hand can be difficult to claw a G302 so probably be the same for G303.


----------



## a_ak57

Shape was always a common complaint. Stop making up narratives and grouping everyone together as having one opinion just so you can be indignant for who knows what reason.


----------



## edyago

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> The primary complaint of the G302 from the armchair representatives of all the " real professional gamers" was that it didn't have a 3366 in it. Apparently it is a waste to put the AM010 inside anything.
> 
> People wanted something light with that sensor and now that it's here we get the influx of but but buts.


From what I was told, some of their players (like Cloud 9) wanted a better sensor in it.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> I'm sure 87g is not light enough for some. To me anything under 80g is too light it's like nothing which is not what I want as a fingertip grip user I need a feel for the mouse else i'll just pick it up too much and mess up the tracking. 90g-100g is about perfect for me.
> I'd say it depends on the size of your hand, if it's a very large hand can be difficult to claw a G302 so probably be the same for G303.


Not only the size of the hand but also the position of the finger tips.

We have a confirmed occurrence of someone holding the mouse with a fingertip grip but towards the rear of the mouse where it is widest. The width in that area was too wide for him so he sanded it down.


----------



## TheGMT

I'm down for a G302 shape with a 3366. G100 shape would be more universally praised, but there are a few like me that have become accustom this the quirks of the G302. Now that I've learnt how to hold it, everything else, including the G100s, Aurora, Xai and Fk, feel worse to me.

I wanted a G302 with a 3366, a better cable and reduced weight. 2/3 on an already near to perfect mouse ain't bad. The G303 is just what I want.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> The primary complaint of the G302 from the armchair representatives of all the " real professional gamers" was that it didn't have a 3366 in it. Apparently it is a waste to put the AM010 inside anything.
> 
> People wanted something light with that sensor and now that it's here we get the influx of but but buts.


and you see the majority of people dont like the shape. they could have made a g103 with 3366 too, that shape is actually usable to most people


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for that example, the usb frames will either show 2 or 3 sensor updates, and in mousetester you will see a \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ pattern.
> so the fact that we see these periodic fluctuations isn't a sign that the mcu or sensor isn't behaving correctly. it's just that the sensor framerate isn't perfectly in-sync with the usb frames.


This (honestly) sounds incorrect.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> All grip types? That's impossible there is a stark difference in needs between a good palm and fingertip mouse. Also side buttons like the main buttons? No mouse manufacture uses the same switches for their side buttons seems like a random request. Scroll wheel plan rubber? Most scroll wheels are rubber coated plastics and many people prefer this the only thing people care about is the feel of the scroll and the feel of the click.


I see you are quite hostile. It's clouding your judgment.

If you have a non intrusive shape you can grip the mouse in different ways. A shape like the Mionix Naos doesn't allow for anything other than the designed grip, which the G302/3 is closer to in that regard than the G100S. I shouldn't have to explain to a smart person that a more "universal" shape isn't going to be perfect for 1 grip type because that is obvious.

The main buttons are more tactile than the side buttons. The side buttons didn't get the same attention to detail as the main buttons. As you can clearly see by how they sit in the shell.

Isn't the scroll wheel lacking the typical indentations or bumps on the silicone/rubber portion of the wheel? You know the parts that make the wheel easier to scroll or determine how many times you will scroll? I have seen people complain about this detail before. For an expensive mouse it looks cheap (again, the attention to detail).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> The primary complaint of the G302 from the armchair representatives of all the " real professional gamers" was that it didn't have a 3366 in it. Apparently it is a waste to put the AM010 inside anything.
> 
> People wanted something light with that sensor and now that it's here we get the influx of but but buts.


The AM010 doesn't work for flick shot play styles. Also the frame rate appears to be low.

~93g isn't that light for a mouse that is 115mm long and has 2 side buttons. The Zowie FK is ~85g with four side buttons and it's 124mm long.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> The primary complaint of the G302 from the armchair representatives of all the " real professional gamers" was that it didn't have a 3366 in it. Apparently it is a waste to put the AM010 inside anything.
> 
> People wanted something light with that sensor and now that it's here we get the influx of but but buts.
> 
> 
> 
> and you see the majority of people dont like the shape. they could have made a g103 with 3366 too, that shape is actually usable to most people
Click to expand...

Most people "active on this forum" didn't like the shape. Ofc most people on this forum don't seem to play moba's or use higher sensitivities or use fingertip grips. Is this like how "most" people didn't like the G9 shape when it came out?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> and you see the majority of people dont like the shape. they could have made a g103 with 3366 too, that shape is actually usable to most people


we see a couple people complain about the shape and people conclude that a majority of people don't like the shape.

If they put it in the g100s's shell people would of complained about it not being in the g302's shell and about the lack of any side buttons.

I'm pretty happy, i have a hard time imagining buying anything other then g303 mice any time soon. How are you going to top this, CPate?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> How are you going to top this, CPate?


G902 >_>


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> we see a couple people complain about the shape and people conclude that a majority of people don't like the shape.
> 
> If they put it in the g100s's shell people would of complained about it not being in the g302's shell and about the lack of any side buttons.
> 
> I'm pretty happy, i have a hard time imagining buying anything other then g303 mice any time soon. How are you going to top this, CPate?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> we see a couple people complain about the shape and people conclude that a majority of people don't like the shape.
> 
> If they put it in the g100s's shell people would of complained about it not being in the g302's shell and about the lack of any side buttons.
> 
> I'm pretty happy, i have a hard time imagining buying anything other then g303 mice any time soon. How are you going to top this, CPate?


it doesnt matter how many people complained, just look at the thing and you know its a bad shape, and there is no law that says they cant release both a g103 and g303, it doesnt have to be one or the other


----------



## MasterBash

Its quite easy to top this, actually. There are small things that can be done better :

- GOOD rubber cable instead of braided. This will always be superior when it comes to "drag"
- A hole to place the mouse feet like the G400, instead of edges like the G502, G302, etc. It will greatly reduce the drag on soft mousepads bc there will be no edges to touch the mousepad.

I think those 2 things alone, although nothing really major, they would be improvements over the latest G mice.

I think the G400 is as good as it gets when it comes to mousefeet and very light/thin cables... No matter how much pressure you would put on the mouse, nothing would cause it to drag. However, the cable was very fragile, thats the downside to it.

I can use both my fingers and arm to move the mouse, because I have done it both for years. Using my arm means I put a bit more pressure on the mouse. Edges around mouse feet makes it drag. Holes, like the G400, do not. The Deathadder drags but the mousefeet are so thin and I have no idea why there is a circle sticking out around the sensor, which touches the mousepad at all times.

Ya, I use the QcK+ at times, its soft. The hayate isnt as bad.

Also, I know they are trying to build their mice as tanks, but that means extra weight. I would prefer something around 70-80g, personally. I prefer bigger mice myself, but I did get used to the g302, so its ok.

I understand shape and weight are personally preference though, cables being good or bad and edges dragging on the mousepad... Not so much. Design flaw I would say.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Most people "active on this forum" didn't like the shape. Ofc most people on this forum don't seem to play moba's or use higher sensitivities or use fingertip grips. Is this like how "most" people didn't like the G9 shape when it came out?


You can go on Youtube and see at least 3 people complain about the shape not being ideal. I am not going to collect all the videos, you can do it yourself. Top that off, two Cloud 9 players didn't like it. So it's not just forum users, it's Youtube reviewers and some pro FPS players.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Is it safe to assume I don't like the shape of the G302?
> 
> Hint:


That was enough to convince me that i don't like the shape.


----------



## Brightmist

For future reference, G103 is a Logitech keyboard so let's name the G100s shell with a 3366 sensor G102s or something








Also g100s shell with a 3366 and side buttons would be nice.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> For future reference, G103 is a Logitech keyboard so let's name the G100s shell with a 3366 sensor G102s or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also g100s shell with a 3366 and side buttons would be nice.


It would be nice, but I'm pretty sure we're not going to see a G100s with the 3366


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> It would be nice, but I'm pretty sure we're not going to see a G100s with the 3366


I think the only reason you see a diamond shaped G302 in the first place is because they already have 2 palm/large mice. Otherwise they would have put side buttons on both sides if the intent was to make an ambidextrous mouse. Reusing the G302 for the G303 was very cheap for them to do and would make use of their sensor before they lose their exclusivity. A mouse using the same shape with different sensors is easier to make profit from as it will be sold in different places.

A new/better shape would have took more time and money. Logitech probably looks at that as being too risky for the markets the G303 are sold in.


----------



## condumitru

I still rock my DA 1800dpi (my 2nd and last 3G), but I really think I'll give this a shot - on paper it is everything you could want, if you get used with the shape. And yes you can get used to another shape/style. We could start now and nitpick it, but at the end of the day it is very close, perhaps closest to what most of us wanted all along, so I'll take it.

Maybe I'll wait for the roach _non-swamp non-clown non-donkey_ cursor seal of approval, but after all these years it feels to me, that this device characteristics are finally good enough to leave my other mice in the drawer.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I understand shape and weight are personally preference though, cables being good or bad and edges dragging on the mousepad... Not so much. Design flaw I would say.


i'm not sure you can say weight is personal preference and drag isn't. Drag makes you use more force to move the same object the same distance. Weight does as well.

As for the cable, assuming its the same as the g502, i think the only cable i would prefer over it is Zowie's. So most companies haven't been able to provide a better cable, so i wouldn't call it easy. Also, i don't think Logitech could financially justify making a new mouse with the g302 shape, 3366 or better sensor, and a better nonbraided cable any time soon.

Also, i'm not sure what you're experiencing with the ridges of mouse feet because they shouldn't be contacting the pad, especially a stiff pad. What i noticed about drag is the drag feel is significantly reduced for me with the g302 after removing the two mouse feet next to the sensor. I don't know what their function is, but they seem to increase drag a bit. I wonder if its to give the sensation of a heavier mouse when moving it, as many people equate a heavy mouse with a more solid, higher quality mouse. Or maybe its designed to keep the sensor a specific distance from the mouse pad to maximize tracking. I've also asked CPate about it, but he was all he can't talk about it, so maybe the NSA is bugging our mice by disguising them as unnecessary mouse feet...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *condumitru*
> 
> if you get used with the shape. And yes you can get used to another shape/style.


I have been using the same style/grip for like 16 years Can I master something else? Sure, but I use this grip for good reasons and I don't want to throw away consistency.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i'm not sure you can say weight is personal preference and drag isn't. Drag makes you use more force to move the same object the same distance. Weight does as well.
> 
> As for the cable, assuming its the same as the g502, i think the only cable i would prefer over it is Zowie's. So most companies haven't been able to provide a better cable, so i wouldn't call it easy.
> 
> Also, i'm not sure what you're experiencing with the mouse feet, but unless the mouspad is very soft and the pads are digging pretty far into the pad, i don't see how the ridges are causing the problem. What i noticed and what made the drag feel significantly reduced for me with the g302 was removing the two mouse feet that are right next to the sensor. I don't know what their function is, but they seem to increase drag a bit. I wonder if its to give the sensation of a heavier mouse when moving it, as many people equate a heavy mouse with a more solid, higher quality mouse. I've also asked CPate about it, but he was all he can't talk about it, so maybe the NSA is bugging our mice by disguising them as unnecessary mouse feet....


Last time I checked, Zowie uses a resilient rubber and they have a copper wire in their cable. Makes it easy to bend and doesn't split like old Razer or Logitech cables.

If you like to put weight on the mouse, to straighten out your movements, the mouse will bottom out. If the design of the bottom shell has any sharp edges you will feel it and the drag will increase. When I use ergonomic mice I tend to put weight on the mouse, I don't do that with symmetric designs.

The feet, the area surrounding the feet, the size of the feet, the sticker area, the hole for the sensor, the edges of the bottom shell or side shell and the cable, can affect the smoothness as well as glide.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> This (honestly) sounds incorrect.


why? the mcu just adds up data from the sensor... and the sensor doesn't always update the same number of times every 1ms.

here's my post on esr explaining this
Quote:


> suppose a mouse had a sensor at 1500hz and the usb polling is at 1000hz.
> 
> something like this
> ...:...:...:...:...:...:...:..
> ......;.....;.....;.....;.....;
> where : is a sensor update and ; is a usb poll
> 
> as you can see every other usb poll corresponds to two sensor updates and the rest to one
> 
> if the mouse is moving so that the sensor reports 20 counts in each update, in mousetester we'd see 20,40,20,40,20,40,etc
> 
> by looking at this it's possible to deduce the sensor's framerate


----------



## LogitechFan2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I have been busy with other things. Please PM me your case number and I will escalate.


Thanks, I've PMed you the case #. Hopefully you can help me with getting it resolved. After almost two months (I opened the case with Logitech support on the 10th of January) finally, someone who is actually responding...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> why? the mcu just adds up data from the sensor... and the sensor doesn't always update the same number of times every 1ms.
> 
> here's my post on esr explaining this


A 3310 has a frame rate ~6.500, a pixel density of 900, a max CPI of 5.000 and scales counts in options of 50.

The sensor talks to the MCU, then the MCU talks to the PC. How ever the MCU performs determines the outcome. Frame rate would be irrelevant after the X and Y movement is determined.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If you like to put weight on the mouse, to straighten out your movements, the mouse will bottom out. If the design of the bottom shell has any sharp edges you will feel it and the drag will increase. When I use ergonomic mice I tend to put weight on the mouse, I don't do that with symmetric designs. The feet, the area surrounding the feet, the size of the feet, the sticker area, the sensor hole, the edges of the bottom shell or side shell and cable can affect the smoothness and glide.


Exactly. I think this can be eliminated for the most part on well designed mouse and i dont believe its necessary a preference when it comes to mouse. I believe a mouse should glide as smoothly as possible out of the box. If someone wants something with more resistance or less, there are mousepads for that. A smooth mousepad wont make a mouse that drags any better. A rough mousepad can give more resistance to a mouse that glides well.

Besides, sharp edges will most likely damage a mousepad in the long term.

As for the polling rate, I do hope manufacturers will increase it one day. I mean, I am all about performance, even if its such a small improvement and wont change much. Doesnt usb 2 support like 8000hz and usb 3, 24000hz?

That would be so cool! Incoming 20% cpu usage caused by mouse alone.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Exactly. I think this can be eliminated for the most part on well designed mouse and i dont believe its necessary a preference when it comes to mouse. I believe a mouse should glide as smoothly as possible out of the box. If someone wants something with more resistance or less, there are mousepads for that. A smooth mousepad wont make a mouse that drags any better. A rough mousepad can give more resistance to a mouse that glides well.
> 
> Besides, sharp edges will most likely damage a mousepad in the long term.


I don't like how my Zowie AM and FK glide. The ends don't move at the same rate and the glide doesn't feel similar in both directions because the feet are not the same size and shape. On some mouse pads it's more apparent. I thought of adding some Intellimouse feet instead or some of those round feet.


----------



## iceskeleton

@CPate
Do you know the release date for Australia?


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> @CPate
> Do you know the release date for Australia?


I am also keen to know this!


----------



## Atavax

I imagine CPate is quite busy at Pax East. If i recall correctly from past launches, he would say something along the lines of the product has already been shipped to retailers in your region, but that he can't say when they'll arrive or when those retailers will start taking orders for them.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A 3310 has a frame rate ~6.500, a pixel density of 900, a max CPI of 5.000 and scales counts in options of 50.
> 
> The sensor talks to the MCU, then the MCU talks to the PC. How ever the MCU performs determines the outcome. Frame rate would be irrelevant after the X and Y movement is determined.


suppose a sensor framerate of 2500hz and a usb polling rate of 1000hz
the mcu talks to be pc at time 0.0ms, 1.0ms, 2.0ms, 3.0ms, 4.0ms etc...
the sensor reads the change in movement at time 0.1ms, 0.5ms, 0.9ms, 1.3ms, 1.7ms, 2.1ms, 2.5ms, 2.9ms, 3.3ms, 3.7ms, 4.1ms, etc...

suppose you're moving the mouse at a constant velocity such that every sensor frame, the sensor reads 10 counts to the right.

when the mcu talks to the pc at time 1.0ms, it's sending the total movement change from between 0.0ms to 1.0ms. since the sensor had three updates in this period, that's a total of 30 counts.
at time 2.0ms, the mcu talks to the pc again and sends the total movement change from between 1.0ms to 2.0ms. the sensor had 2 updates in this period, so the mcu reports 20 counts over usb
between 2.0ms and 3.0ms, there are 3 updates -> 30 counts
between 3.0ms and 4.0ms, there are 2 updates -> 20 counts

so in mousetester or mousemovement recorder or whatever, we'd see 30,20,30,20, etc...


----------



## batmanwcm

Well, it looks like I just found a worthy successor to my G400. I loved my friend's G502 but like many of you guys, I found it too heavy. Here's hoping Amazon will start carrying it soon since I have some gift cards that I would like to use.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> suppose a sensor framerate of 2500hz and a usb polling rate of 1000hz
> the mcu talks to be pc at time 0.0ms, 1.0ms, 2.0ms, 3.0ms, 4.0ms etc...
> the sensor reads the change in movement at time 0.1ms, 0.5ms, 0.9ms, 1.3ms, 1.7ms, 2.1ms, 2.5ms, 2.9ms, 3.3ms, 3.7ms, 4.1ms, etc...
> 
> suppose you're moving the mouse at a constant velocity such that every sensor frame, the sensor reads 10 counts to the right.
> 
> when the mcu talks to the pc at time 1.0ms, it's sending the total movement change from between 0.0ms to 1.0ms. since the sensor had three updates in this period, that's a total of 30 counts.
> at time 2.0ms, the mcu talks to the pc again and sends the total movement change from between 1.0ms to 2.0ms. the sensor had 2 updates in this period, so the mcu reports 20 counts over usb
> between 2.0ms and 3.0ms, there are 3 updates -> 30 counts
> between 3.0ms and 4.0ms, there are 2 updates -> 20 counts
> 
> so in mousetester or mousemovement recorder or whatever, we'd see 30,20,30,20, etc...


This is correct.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Shape was always a common complaint. Stop making up narratives and grouping everyone together as having one opinion just so you can be indignant for who knows what reason.


Shape is always the primary complaint of any mouse on this. That goes without saying. Every mouse will have some shape problem projected by people who feel that their personal feelings are best placed on other people's recommendations.

The big "con" when the G302 information was released was that it didn't have a 3366. Apparently it needs to be inside of every mouse imaginable and many a user harped on that. It has nothing to do with narratives.


----------



## a_ak57

Then what are you so indignant about? Some people wanted a 3366 in the 302, and those people are the ones in this thread who are happy. Some people didn't care about the sensor because the shape wasn't to their liking, so they're still not happy and expressing their wish for 3366 to be in a shape they like. You keep going on as if it was literally everyone saying one thing. There isn't a hivemind so insulting "people" for contradicting prior statements is silly.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Then what are you so indignant about? Some people wanted a 3366 in the 302, and those people are the ones in this thread who are happy. Some people didn't care about the sensor because the shape wasn't to their liking, so they're still not happy and expressing their wish for 3366 to be in a shape they like. You keep going on as if it was literally everyone saying one thing. There isn't a hivemind so insulting "people" for contradicting prior statements is silly.


Well it's obvious you miss most of my posts because I do call it what it is in many of them - a vocal minority.









Secondly, annoying because it takes away from mice because it doesn't fit one person's criteria therefore people labeling it as a bad mouse for whatever reason. Is the mouse bad? Not by any means. Does it fit everyone's needs in a mouse? Of course not.

Thirdly, you've missed the hivemind boat. Do you catch roach threads? Peek inside...


----------



## jigglywiggly

Is there any way to contact logitech? I haven't seen such a non intuitive website in a while.
I don't want to waste time on the phone, do they have an email?

I want to pre order the logitech g303, but I was going to wait on Amazon. But logitech actually emailed me a $20 voucher for having it in my cart. When I put it in though, it counts as $0. When I even tried to pre order to see what would happen it gave me an error. I didn't write down the error though.

EDIT: I totally misread, it's $20 off your next order.


----------



## pinobot

Seems like a great mouse, i'm just worried about the shape.
I seem to hold ambidextrous mouses (to me this is one too) at an angle. Because of the shape of the back of the mouse i'm afraid i will hold this one even at a greater angle because there is nothing there to prevent it. the left side is ok because i can turn the mouse more at a straight angle but the right side has no 'meat' to push it straight. As far as i can see there is no angle tuning software in the driver. I use claw but i need te feel the edge of the mouse.
Would be nice if someone build a mouse whereby you can turn the sensor mechanically.


----------



## Menthalion

After playing with the G302 for a couple of days I've pretty much come around all my reservations about the shape, and I'll be happily getting a G303 whenever it becomes available.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Shape was always a common complaint. Stop making up narratives and grouping everyone together as having one opinion just so you can be indignant for who knows what reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Shape is always the primary complaint of any mouse on this. That goes without saying. Every mouse will have some shape problem projected by people who feel that their personal feelings are best placed on other people's recommendations.
> 
> The big "con" when the G302 information was released was that it didn't have a 3366. Apparently it needs to be inside of every mouse imaginable and many a user harped on that. It has nothing to do with narratives.
Click to expand...

In fact, there were plenty of people that were happy enough with the AM sensor because they did not hit malfunction anyway.
The first talk before people actually got the mouse in hand was the sensor yes, but after people got to try it the shape became the nr1 talked about topic regarding G302.
And the shape have been the most talked about ever since people actually got to try it.


----------



## TK421

USA is 20$ more expensive lol

ID: http://gaming.logitech.com/id-id/product/moba-gaming-mouse-g302 50usd

US: http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303 70usd


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> USA is 20$ more expensive lol
> 
> ID: http://gaming.logitech.com/id-id/product/moba-gaming-mouse-g302 50usd
> 
> US: http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303 70usd


One of those is G302, the other is G303.


----------



## fuzzybass

Well... I'm one of those folks who are a little skeptical/worried about the G303 shape, but this is one of those things where you kind of -have to try out-, just to see if it works out, you know? So, I think I'll probably pick this one up.

It hits all the right points (ambidextrous shape + back/forward buttons + optical sensor), except for that one issue with the shape, so I just have to see if that shape is something I can deal with. Is the release date really the end of March, though?


----------



## yukino

There is no "Pre-order" Button anymore for Logitech Germany, you can just put it in the Shopping Cart and u are gud 2 go.

Let's see bby gurl.


----------



## pinobot

Only one way to find out if it's good for me.
Went ahead and ordered one in The Netherlands, payed 5 euros less with code: 5-LOGITECH.


----------



## Trull

You guys are paying 65-70€ for this in Europe? I feel sorry for you...


----------



## yukino

Sadly ye.. I'm still thinking about my 2 orders, got it for 56€ @Amazon and 65€ @Logitech. I have to cancel one


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You guys are paying 65-70€ for this in Europe? I feel sorry for you...


Take the American price, then change the $ to a € sign

Gratz, you now have the Euro price!!! (its caused by 19% VAT )

Whats funny a lot of places is the variation in price. Roccat Kone Pure Optical (adns-3090) was and is still 70euros in Germany and reached #5 in amazon bestseller (and lots of reviews) recently while the military (3310) version is the same price w/ free mousepad and less people bought it... ***?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You guys are paying 65-70€ for this in Europe? I feel sorry for you...


I'm guessing it will drop to 50€ or so after a while. I'll wait for that.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Whats funny a lot of places is the variation in price. Roccat Kone Pure Optical (adns-3090) was and is still 70euros in Germany and reached #5 in amazon bestseller (and lots of reviews) recently while the military (3310) version is the same price w/ free mousepad and less people bought it... ***?


IIRC it was on sale at some point, was 49.99 or something.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You guys are paying 65-70€ for this in Europe? I feel sorry for you...


Depends on the Viewpoint, one could argue that we simply are able to afford it, if not, then there is still Gamdias.


----------



## Atavax

lol, i'm getting ads for a g303 pool cue...


----------



## Aventadoor

In my country, G303 costs the same as G502.
Which is kinda funny considering G502 is more mice for the price.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You guys are paying 65-70€ for this in Europe? I feel sorry for you...


€76.16 in Sweden... excluding shipping.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> In my country, G303 costs the same as G502.
> Which is kinda funny considering G502 is more mice for the price.


60€ for the G502 in Spain. 21% VAT included.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> In my country, G303 costs the same as G502.
> Which is kinda funny considering G502 is more mice for the price.


You need to compare MRSP prices at release, pretty sure G502 was more expensive then.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> You guys are paying 65-70€ for this in Europe? I feel sorry for you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> €76.16 in Sweden... excluding shipping.
Click to expand...

Yepp no way im buying this for 800SEK (76ish Euro).
Kinda funny they even justify the same price as G502.
Oh well, the G502 have been on sale several times, guess it's just about waiting until G303 gets the same treatment








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> In my country, G303 costs the same as G502.
> Which is kinda funny considering G502 is more mice for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to compare MRSP prices at release, pretty sure G502 was more expensive then.
Click to expand...

Not in Sweden atleast.
G502 and G303 is both at 799SEK on launch (76 euro)
Also the G502 is vastly cheaper now at 550SEK (57 euro)


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Not in Sweden atleast.
> G502 and G303 is both at 799SEK on launch (76 euro)
> Also the G502 is vastly cheaper now at 550SEK (57 euro)


Well, then that's weird








In Germany the G502 is 79,99€, G303 69,99€, G402 59,99€,G302 49,99€


----------



## Melan

Spanish site has 81.99 euros for G502.


----------



## yukino

Germany Status: In stock

for the G303 :>


----------



## FredgHar

Does somebody disassembled it already? Can someone go into detail about this suspense-system for buttons in detail?(cant find anything)


----------



## chrislee11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FredgHar*
> 
> Does somebody disassembled it already? Can someone go into detail about this suspense-system for buttons in detail?(cant find anything)


The only thing I remember is my dude CPate had a video form logitech on the mouse.





 - 35 sec in he shows an inside shot of the button system.

Basically has some tension springs that make the clicks amazing.

EDIT : Can someone tell me how to link to users on the forums? Wanna give CPate some props for making this video discussing the mouse.


----------



## donutvampire

Amazon US is saying the release date is March 15. Is that for the logitech.com site too? Im trying to get this mouse as fast as possible, want to add it to my collection of logitech mice







As of now I got the Marathon Mouse, g100s, g400s, and the g302.


----------



## fpser

for now, its best mouse for competetive fps gaming, light, small enought, best sensor. What need more? ideal mouse for medium hands.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fpser*
> 
> for now, its best mouse for competetive fps gaming, light, small enought, best sensor. What need more? ideal mouse for medium hands.


How about small hands? like 17cm from palm to middle finger.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fpser*
> 
> What need more?


A normal shape instead of that one


----------



## 4RTEX

I just got G302 1 month ago, but I'm surely getting this one!


----------



## fpser

17cm is still medium hands, i have 17-18 cm and i buy it soon as posible, g101 is too small for me


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fpser*
> 
> 17cm is still medium hands, i have 17-18 cm and i buy it soon as posible, g101 is too small for me


Rly lol?

Everybody got bigger hands than me, just wondering.









But if that's true, nice!


----------



## fpser

i am 170 cm tall, from 170-180 i think is medium hands, over 180cm(20+cm hand) is large hand i think, but not sure.


----------



## donutvampire

The average male hand is around 18.9 cm or 7.44 inches


----------



## yukino

I'm 168 cm tall, but w/e ..







will see soon.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fpser*
> 
> for now, its best mouse for competetive fps gaming, light, small enought, best sensor. What need more? ideal mouse for medium hands.


Well for some a more standard shape like Sensei, kana, zowie fk, g100 etc etc etc.
You know the more typical normal shape that most people love


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrislee11*
> 
> The only thing I remember is my dude CPate had a video form logitech on the mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 35 sec in he shows an inside shot of the button system.
> 
> Basically has some tension springs that make the clicks amazing.
> 
> EDIT : Can someone tell me how to link to users on the forums? Wanna give CPate some props for making this video discussing the mouse.


So it's just a off the shelf micro switch with a compressed spring that presses down the micro switch while forcing the button/shell up. Pre-travel/backlash eliminated basically by middle man spring. Is this right?


----------



## discoprince

awesome i love the G302 shape i can't wait to pick this up


----------



## fpser

shape looking little strange but i can adapt very quickly to shape, just need good sensor without smootness aka swamp cursor and high manufalction speed(low senser), light mouse, not very large, no slipery sides.


----------



## fpser

ofc no accel and prediction build in sensor.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Pre-travel/backlash eliminated basically by middle man spring. Is this right?


Yes, altough only the button gets "dragged down" so that the actuator lies on the switch, pretty simple and pretty effective.


----------



## donutvampire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fpser*
> 
> ofc no accel and prediction build in sensor.


The shape is not as bad as people make it out to be, it is a small mouse so you can get a hold of it very easily. The diagonal back of it fits in the palm of your hand if you can tell from this picture


----------



## CorruptBE

Ordered one.

Free shipment on Logitech BE


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Ordered one.
> 
> Free shipment on Logitech BE


I thought you only liked mice with butts. Couldn't resist huh


----------



## a_ak57

The 302/303 butt isn't wide, but it's at least tall. So it does push into my palm the way I want, but unfortunately it doesn't push into as much of my palm as I'd like. I wouldn't be surprised if CBE ends up feeling the same.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I thought you only liked mice with butts. Couldn't resist huh


Not "only liked" but I do indeed prefer them to have a butt.

But considering this sensor, if I can cope with the shape, I might be swayed. Plus my experiences back in the day with Logitech mice was always rather positive (MX300/310 and later 510/518. I outgrew the 518 shape though, can't hold it anymore for more then 20 mins).


----------



## Aventadoor

Like everything in life, you can adapt.


----------



## pinobot

Don't know, never went to prison.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> The shape is not as bad as people make it out to be, it is a small mouse so you can get a hold of it very easily. The diagonal back of it fits in the palm of your hand if you can tell from this picture


That actually calmed my mind a bit. I preordered to see the 3366's performance and especially its possible troubles on the Artisan Raiden mousepad. If all would work out well the last thing to worry about would be the shape, which doesn't look as awkward now after seeing how you can hold/ grip it. I'm mainly a pure claw grip user and can adapt to Rival and G100S which are both totally different shapes. I'm kinda excited now for it to arrive. Logitech.de has them on stock so maybe Tuesday already at my doorstep.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Don't know, never went to prison.


Arent the prisons in Netherlands like in Norway? Pretty much like being in a low class hotel


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Like everything in life, you can adapt.


... in more ways one would expect









After sanding the shape further it looks and feel a lot better (OK the start was really ugly). Still, I will probably need to add some paint to make it look good again.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fpser*
> 
> ofc no accel and prediction build in sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> The shape is not as bad as people make it out to be, it is a small mouse so you can get a hold of it very easily. The diagonal back of it fits in the palm of your hand if you can tell from this picture
Click to expand...

If you hold the mouse that way ofc not.
I can palm the G302 fine, fingertip grip however is way way harder for me compared to just about any other more normal straight mouse like sensei,kana,g100,fk etc etc.


----------



## semantics

It's because logitech goes for the ergonomic palm mouse design now of days of which you press the mouse only into the top of your palm only this makes sure your wrist doesn't bend at an angle or touch the mousepad while playing.


----------



## MasterBash

Those who say they have coupons... Where did you guys get them? I would definitely buy the mouse if it was 15$ cheaper. I am in canada too.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Those who say they have coupons... Where did you guys get them? I would definitely buy the mouse if it was 15$ cheaper. I am in canada too.


15€ for Amazon, but could use it just once.. they sent it me to my E-mail.

I also used this "5-LOGITECH" for the Logitech Store.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> If you hold the mouse that way ofc not.
> I can palm the G302 fine, fingertip grip however is way way harder for me compared to just about any other more normal straight mouse like sensei,kana,g100,fk etc etc.


What about "half-palm half-fingertip" grip? I think that describes best how I grip the mouse. G100 shape feels fine but it's so **** build quality and broke down anyway, now using rival and its horrible for my grip... can't make those crucial small adjustments with fingertips.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> If you hold the mouse that way ofc not.
> I can palm the G302 fine, fingertip grip however is way way harder for me compared to just about any other more normal straight mouse like sensei,kana,g100,fk etc etc.
> 
> 
> 
> What about "half-palm half-fingertip" grip? I think that describes best how I grip the mouse. G100 shape feels fine but it's so **** build quality and broke down anyway, now using rival and its horrible for my grip... can't make those crucial small adjustments with fingertips.
Click to expand...

It's impossible to say really, we all have different small differences with our grips.
I use fingertip grip and sometimes clawgrip.
I have a hard time with G302 either way, just because I need to press my thumb and pinky towards the front of the curve making my grip uncomfortable.
I also readjust my thumb alot which is easy with most mice since the surface is flat. But with the G302 you really must have it infront of the curve because its super mega wide at the curve and also the grip is garbage if you hold it there









So you really need to try it for yourself sadly, as all reviews on this particular shape say as well, the shape is a hit or miss, for me it's a 100% miss sadly.
If it had a more standard shape I would buy the G303 in an instant and it would be my perfect mouse because I liked the clicks on G302 alot, and with an even better sensor, a tad better cable it would be perfect if it just had a Kana,FK,Sensei, G100s similar shape with straighter edges.

It's clear however that Logitech abandons their old true shapes which alot hate, some lot.
The uproar when they abandoned the MX518/G400 shape was insane.
Don't fix what aint broken does not apply







Or we would have a G9x rehash that a ton of people want (not just on this forum but petitions etc have been sent for a long time now about that)


----------



## Sencha

For those in the UK you can get £5 off on Logitech website. Just enter 5£-LOGITECH in discount box. Then if you spam the back button in the browser you'll get a message popping up saying please don't leave and offering you free Express shipping.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those in the UK you can get £5 off on Logitech website. Just enter 5£-LOGITECH in discount box. Then if you spam the back button in the browser you'll get a message popping up saying please don't leave and offering you free Express shipping.


That hacks tho


----------



## Sencha

I was actually trying to leave the page. They Hacked my wallet cause the pop worked









EDIT: you just click off the page. Like on one of your bookmarks and it pops up.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

The shape of this mouse looks a little strange... I really liked my G502 sensor performance and button clicks, but I also like the smaller size and lightweight of my FK1. Tempted to get this. I am a little disappointed about the $70 price tag, but I guess not going out lunch one time this week makes up for the additional $20. Are most people palm style gripping their G302?


----------



## ThinJ

The idea of a smaller lightweight mouse with the sensor from the 502 was too tempting and I preordered one of these on Amazon, overpriced or not.

Estimated delivery isn't until the 18th, and that may or may not end up being accurate.


----------



## JustinSane

These lucky motha lovas at PAX are able to buy one today. Hopefully ours ship soon.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those in the UK you can get £5 off on Logitech website. Just enter 5£-LOGITECH in discount box. Then if you spam the back button in the browser you'll get a message popping up saying please don't leave and offering you free Express shipping.


Thanks. It says in stock @ logitech site, and £50 shipped is not bad compared to the ~£68 that was being charged before. I'd still like to wait for amazon to have it, any info on how long that will be?


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Thanks. It says in stock @ logitech site, and £50 shipped is not bad compared to the ~£68 that was being charged before. I'd still like to wait for amazon to have it, any info on how long that will be?


Amazon said 3 Weeks minimum, but dunno about that.


----------



## wmoftw

To those wondering why the shape is an issue, I can post a picture showing why the sides of the shell alone will likely make this mouse uncomfortable for me. On the left is how I hold my mouse (glaw grip), while the right shows a common grip. I circled the bump, because that's likely where my pinky would end up. That would be horrible to grip. This is why people label shells 'bad', the shape is just uncommon and can lead to issues with some users.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> These lucky motha lovas at PAX are able to buy one today. Hopefully ours ship soon.


Well, the G502 has just started being sold in my country.
I think I'll need to wait months or maybe a year to get this mouse.
That's the price I'd need to pay if I preorder it on Amazon: http://i.imgur.com/H9GJggJ.jpg

That shape seems so bad, but I really want to try a 3366 mouse.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Well, the G502 has just started being sold in my country.
> I think I'll need to wait months or maybe a year to get this mouse.
> That's the price I'd need to pay if I preorder it on Amazon: http://i.imgur.com/H9GJggJ.jpg
> 
> That shape seems so bad, but I really want to try a 3366 mouse.


what country is that


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> To those wondering why the shape is an issue, I can post a picture showing why the sides of the shell alone will likely make this mouse uncomfortable for me. On the left is how I hold my mouse (glaw grip), while the right shows a common grip. I circled the bump, because that's likely where my pinky would end up. That would be horrible to grip. This is why people label shells 'bad', the shape is just uncommon and can lead to issues with some users.


The right side fo the G302/3 is ridiculous for many grips. That kind of shape can be fine for the thumb area. I suspect the mouse was designed symmetrically because they already have two other mice for right handers. I cannot say it was really for performance because a shape like that causes the mouse to creep towards the back of your hand [palm] as you move it with your fingers due to not having resistance with such a slanted shape. Straight sides and sides that increase in width towards the front would stop creep.


----------



## fLaPzZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those in the UK you can get £5 off on Logitech website. Just enter 5£-LOGITECH in discount box. Then if you spam the back button in the browser you'll get a message popping up saying please don't leave and offering you free Express shipping.


Cheers. £50 shipped too. I hope this will suit my hybrid claw/palm. I think it will be ok - wanted to try this sensor for ages!


----------



## Pa12a

I thank the god by name that I like the shape of the G302/G303 AND the 3366 sensor. Pre-ordered one.


----------



## exitone

out 15 march


----------



## t00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those in the UK you can get £5 off on Logitech website. Just enter 5£-LOGITECH in discount box. Then if you spam the back button in the browser you'll get a message popping up saying please don't leave and offering you free Express shipping.


Nice! Thanks.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It would be nice to see PCB pics instead. Since you didn't buy the mouse it wouldn't be an issue.




Other images of the mouse


http://imgur.com/KrShi

.


----------



## MasterBash

Cant remove much to reduce its weight heh


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> out 15 march


So all the Mouse Nerds on this forum shall be wetting themselves in anticipation







.


----------



## Brightmist

Is there a sizing chart for g302/303 shell ?


----------



## popups

Is the polling rate 100% stable on the 500Hz setting? The image in the video shows it drops to 250Hz and the Mouse Tester graph shows something similar.

The older Zowie mice have horrible stability issues stemming from the MCU. It ruins the "tracking" of the sensor.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the polling rate 100% stable on the 500Hz setting? The image in the video shows it drops to 250Hz and the Mouse Tester graph shows something similar.
> 
> The older Zowie mice have horrible stability issues stemming from the MCU. It ruins the "tracking" of the sensor.


Stop reaching for stuff, you know how mouse polling software works.

*Finalmouse 2015*


Oh no the Finalmouse isn't stable! *gasp*


----------



## Cyro999

g303 does 1000hz, right?

500hz into 144hz display isn't good


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> g303 does 1000hz, right?
> 
> 500hz into 144hz display isn't good


the Ino / blackmesatech reviews seems to indicate that it does so very well


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Stop reaching for stuff, you know how mouse polling software works.
> 
> Oh no the Finalmouse isn't stable! *gasp*


Just a simple question. No need to get all defensive. I didn't even mention the FinalMouse in my post. I was bringing up the point of the Zowie mice feeling bad because polling isn't stable or has drop outs. If the new MCU or coding Logitech uses has an issue I would like to know. I don't even want to buy a FinalMouse and I have said why. My point is about MCU performance and how it could affect a great sensor. You know once a bunch of people get a hold of the G303 they are going to start threads about how the sensor isn't that great, that it sucks compared to the MLT-04, etc. If people weren't asking questions we wouldn't have figured out the 3310 has CPI stability issues that make the cursor feel different every time you change something, how the 3366 had a bug at release or the accelerometer didn't work for the Y axis on the G402.

This forum sure has gone down the toilet these days.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> This forum sure has gone down the toilet these days.


we really just need to hug it out.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> we really just need to hug it out.


r0aches don't give hugs unfortunately


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Just a simple question. No need to get all defensive. I didn't even mention the FinalMouse in my post. I was bringing up the point of the Zowie mice feeling bad because polling isn't stable or has drop outs. If the new MCU or coding Logitech uses has issue I would like to know. I don't even want to buy a FinalMouse and I have said why. My point is about MCU performance and how it could affect a great sensor. You know once a bunch of people get a hold of the G303 they are going to start threads about how the sensor isn't that great, that it sucks compared to the MLT-04, etc. If people weren't asking questions we wouldn't have figured out the 3310 has CPI stability issues that make the cursor feel different every time you change something, how the 3366 had a bug at release or the accelerometer didn't work for the Y axis on the G402.


You certainly mentioned the Finalmouse earlier when picking at this mouse for no apparent reason. The majority of your posts fit that attitude and there is no need for it. You know how polling recording software works but you still picked at it even after watching a video where someone mentions the polling rate being stable at 500hz and 1000hz.

A bit off topic but relevant to why I responded in such a way is this. Really there isn't anything wrong with the G302, it was designed for specific purpose and it worked well for it but when that was discussed on here people like you picked it apart for no reason because it wasn't the perfect mouse for them and constantly came back posting the same thing. You can see that behavior repeated on these forums for any mouse that has been released in the past two years.

So when you say,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> This forum sure has gone down the toilet these days.


I can't help but giggle considering your activity these past few months along with many others on these forums.

You were reaching bud you know you were and I'd ask you to stop but I don't think you can.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> what country is that


Brazil aka HUEland


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Brazil aka HUEland


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> You certainly mentioned the Finalmouse earlier when picking at this mouse for no apparent reason. The majority of your posts fit that attitude and there is no need for it. You know how polling recording software works but you still picked at it even after watching a video where someone mentions the polling rate being stable at 500hz and 1000hz.
> 
> A bit off topic but relevant to why I responded in such a way is this. Really there isn't anything wrong with the G302, it was designed for specific purpose and it worked well for it but when that was discussed on here people like you picked it apart for no reason because it wasn't the perfect mouse for them and constantly came back posting the same thing. You can see that behavior repeated on these forums for any mouse that has been released in the past two years.
> 
> So when you say,
> I can't help but giggle considering your activity these past few months along with many others on these forums.
> 
> You were reaching bud you know you were and I'd ask you to stop but I don't think you can.


I asked a question for clarification considering what I seen in the graphs.

The only thing that I really picked apart is the design of the shape and the decision to sale an expensive G303 when there is a G302. I criticize every mouse and company for the sake of seeing improvements in the future; like we have seen with Zowie mice. I don't go around posting voodoo stuff, I haven't even started a thread. You shouldn't feel offended nor should any company.

You might of not noticed that I haven't been around for awhile. I am only here these days because of the 3366. Once the 3366 is refined to its potential and released to the public you'll rarely see me. That will be sooner than later. So be happy.


----------



## qsxcv

@popups i think you know, but anyway... in order for the mouse to send movements every 2ms or 1ms, you need to move it at at least a minimum speed. the 250hz value in that video is probably due to that and not some dropped frame

my logitech g302 is completely stable at 1000hz so i think the g303 should be fine as well.

which mousetester plot shows something similar?


----------



## Atavax

lets just wait until we get our hands on the mouse and when people think they find problems with it, take it as people trying to find ways for mice to get better, not take it as an attack on your favorite mouse.


----------



## yukino

Let's see if something is happen this week.









Ordered it on Amazon and from the Logitech site like 2-3 Minutes after the announcement. Am I the first one? My beautiful girly hands can't wait.
It's on stock @Logitech.de, so I'll keep you up 2 date.


----------



## metal571

There is no polling rate issue with this mouse.

Never before have I seen Enotus give me a perfect 1000 Hz on the polling rate reading, and DIMR reads a super-stable 1019 Hz average as I move.

Debate over.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*


I'm pretty sure it's Rio de Janeiro.

Kappa


----------



## pifive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's Rio de Janeiro.
> 
> Kappa


Thank god you are pretty sure


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> There is no polling rate issue with this mouse.
> 
> Never before have I seen Enotus give me a perfect 1000 Hz on the polling rate reading, and DIMR reads a super-stable 1019 Hz average as I move.
> 
> Debate over.


so, light claw grip mouse with best sensor, flexible and durable cable, best in industry lmb and rmb clicks, very stable polling, onboard memory, surface calibration software, and RGB lighting. No smoothing, acceleration, filtering, pixel rounding, or pixel doubling. Time to throw our money at Logitech me thinks.


----------



## Aventadoor

I was hoping to get this mice next week, but looks like I have to wait another...
Estimated delivery to the dealer went from 7th march - 19...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so, light claw grip mouse with best sensor, flexible and durable cable, best in industry lmb and rmb clicks, very stable polling, onboard memory, surface calibration software, and RGB lighting. No smoothing, acceleration, filtering, pixel rounding, or pixel doubling. Time to throw our money at Logitech me thinks.


I don't understand how anyone is complaining. Except for the shape.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I don't understand how anyone is complaining. Except for the shape.


Even if you disagree with their execution or their execution ends up flawed in some ways, you have to give them props for what they tried to give us. And yeah, i ordered from Logitech because i think they deserve the lack of a middleman with this one.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so, light claw grip mouse with best sensor, flexible and durable cable, best in industry lmb and rmb clicks, very stable polling, onboard memory, surface calibration software, and RGB lighting. No smoothing, acceleration, filtering, pixel rounding, or pixel doubling. Time to throw our money at Logitech me thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how anyone is complaining. Except for the shape.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The mouse is what a lot of people actually wanted.
However the shape is not what most people requested








There are a ton of fans of G9X, even that shape and lower weight with all this would prolly be a smash hit.

I waited for this mouse for years, and the shape destroyed that wait.


----------



## Atavax

maybe the g303 will be a hit and they'll be able to financially justify more high end light mice.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I was hoping to get this mice next week, but looks like I have to wait another...
> Estimated delivery to the dealer went from 7th march - 19...


Where did you order? And how do you know about the delivery time? I'm just curious.


----------



## darkfirebg

Yep!







Can't wait to get my hands on this babe


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> maybe the g303 will be a hit and they'll be able to financially justify more high end light mice.


It's a tiny market. I'm kind of surprised they introduced this model to begin with.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It's a tiny market. I'm kind of surprised they introduced this model to begin with.


we just need to buy many copies and buy directly from Logitech to minimize middlemen









also, can it be that small? Like how do they know its small when they haven't had a high end light mice for a long time if ever? Also like FPS is quite popular, I have a hard time picturing it as that small. Finally, how many moba players will be willing to pay the extra money for a higher DPI and RGB lighting?


----------



## exitone

Logitech should have a series of 'online-only' mice like these where these focus on online distribution. Like how razer has some 'razerstore exclusive' items.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Logitech should have a series of 'online-only' mice like these where these focus on online distribution. Like how razer has some 'razerstore exclusive' items.


Yeah we really, desperately need, another RAZER Store in this world







.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> maybe the g303 will be a hit and they'll be able to financially justify more high end light mice.


This is the reason why I also want this thing to be successful. If it succeeds then maybe the market won't be so afraid of putting their best sensor in a smaller and lighter shape. I just personally hope Logitech offers alternative premium mice and doesn't cling to this G302 shape like they did for years with other shells in the past.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> This is the reason why I also want this thing to be successful. If it succeeds then maybe the market won't be so afraid of putting their best sensor in a smaller and lighter shape. I just personally hope Logitech offers alternative premium mice and doesn't cling to this G302 shape like they did for years with other shells in the past.


I think the RGB lighting is gonna help massively with sales. So many derps just buy the prettiest thing they see.


----------



## Atavax

yeah, obviously the RGB lighting isn't for us. There are other groups this mouse is intended for as well.

and if i hadn't just spent over $1,000, i probably would of ordered 4 of these. And i still might up getting 4 if i like the first one enough.


----------



## Nilizum

Plz RoG Sica!

Oh... On topic: Err G303 has amazing RGB colours?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> This is the reason why I also want this thing to be successful. If it succeeds then maybe the market won't be so afraid of putting their best sensor in a smaller and lighter shape. I just personally hope Logitech offers alternative premium mice and doesn't cling to this G302 shape like they did for years with other shells in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the RGB lighting is gonna help massively with sales. So many derps just buy the prettiest thing they see.
Click to expand...

It's cheap and doesn't add much weight to the mouse or obstructs much of anything in the design so why not do it, the mouse already going to cost a pretty penny due to their choice of sensor and mcu no point to nickle and dime.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It's cheap and doesn't add much weight to the mouse or obstructs much of anything in the design so why not do it, the mouse already going to cost a pretty penny due to their choice of sensor and mcu no point to nickle and dime.


Whether it adds weight is dependent on the design.

It appears like there is a noticeable amount of weight for the lighting effect of the G302/3. It might be 5-10g lighter if they didn't use any lighting with the G302/3 design. That would make it weigh similar to a AM or FK, maybe lighter

I guess to most people an additional 10g is worth the LEDs, especially if it's a RGB LED.

I don't like LEDs that are not functional and placed at the rear of the mouse. By functional I mean not being used to indicate profile or CPI selection like a Zowie EC. I didn't like the LED in the rear of the Inteliimouse, I covered it because it was distracting me. I also covered the blue LED on my Diamondback because blue is the most distracting color (I regret buying the blue LED Diamondback). For me it's been over a decade of discontent for distracting LEDs.


----------



## qsxcv

do you guys have any idea how heavy an led is.......

look at the first image


http://imgur.com/KrShi


k there's the shroud for the sensor but still its basically no extra weight


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> do you guys have any idea how heavy an led is.......
> 
> look at the first image
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/KrShi


There is a little cover that holds the LEDs and blocks light from the sensor. Also the sides are two pieces because they're molded for the lighting effect at the rear, these pieces are held with screws. The top of the shell also seems to be made a certain way for the lighting.

How much does a few screws and the extra plastic weigh?


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It's cheap and doesn't add much weight to the mouse or obstructs much of anything in the design so why not do it, the mouse already going to cost a pretty penny due to their choice of sensor and mcu no point to nickle and dime.


I have 0 problems with the RGB LEDs. I'm actually kinda excited for them. I was just saying for some people that's ALL they care about haha. They have no idea the badass sensor that they are getting inside the mouse or anything like that, they just see the pretty colors.


----------



## qsxcv

k yea its probably around 5g extra


----------



## Melan

This G303 cord looks "meh" compared to FK one.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I have 0 problems with the RGB LEDs. I'm actually kinda excited for them. I was just saying for some people that's ALL they care about haha. They have no idea the badass sensor that they are getting inside the mouse or anything like that, they just see the pretty colors.


and the 12000dpi :d


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> k yea its probably around 5g extra


You really have to pay attention to the small design details to notice the consequences. Much like how Zowie didn't extend the nub that holds down the scroll wheel on their original EC molds, resulting in a jumping wheel that caused missed scrolls.

If you just add an LED to the PCB it is negligible. However, the G302/3 goes further with the lighting effect at the expense of weight. If you add such features and want it to look high quality you are going to sacrifice something. If you are 100% about "performance" that wouldn't be acceptable. Obviously most people don't care about an additional 10g on a small mouse. When a mouse like the G502 goes overboard on the weight increase, due to the features, most people don't like it.


----------



## Atavax

Is the added weight a side effect or was it going to be above 85g LED or not. Its not unheard of to have weights added to mice.Seems like there are a lot of mice in the 85g-95g mark. Not many sub 85g.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Spanish site has 81.99 euros for G502.


Yeah, and it's gonna stay like that forever... doesn't mean anything. 59.95€ on Amazon.es is the actual price.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Is the added weight a side effect or was it going to be above 85g LED or not. Its not unheard of to have weights added to mice.Seems like there are a lot of mice in the 85g-95g mark. Not many sub 85g.


The small things add up.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1465446/zowie-fk-weight-reduction-to-wmo-kinzu-weight/0_20#post_21742864

I guess the G302/3 shape could weigh in the 70-80g range if it was designed differently. Current design is ~93g without a weight.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It might be 5-10g lighter if they didn't use any lighting with the G302/3 design. That would make it weigh similar to a AM or FK, maybe lighter
> 
> I guess to most people an additional 10g is worth the LEDs, especially if it's a RGB LED.


Several reviews and tech specs report it to weight 87 grams which is the same as the first FK. It's obvious that this mouse is not for you and yet you still just continue talking about it. For example I think that the Aurora is too light and chose to use the KPM instead. Amazing how much more relaxed my aim is when the weight is on the sweet spot.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I have 0 problems with the RGB LEDs. I'm actually kinda excited for them. I was just saying for some people that's ALL they care about haha. They have no idea the badass sensor that they are getting inside the mouse or anything like that, they just see the pretty colors.


the clueless people dont know that because of the marketing of the money hungry companies "HURR 8200 DPI LASER"


----------



## qsxcv

about the shape: obviously some people are okay with it and others are not.
the thing is... probably there are more people who have a strong objection to the shape than people who strongly prefer it over a more traditional shape.


----------



## pinobot

Do these people actually own one or just assume it's not the right shape for them.
One thing i've noticed is that when it comes to mouses people are very conservative, if it doesn't have the 'traditional' microsoft shape it's pretty much considered garbage.


----------



## qsxcv

i have a g302 that i really like other than how the edges in the rear dig into my palm
apparently it's possible to fit the pcb into a g100s though. i'm definitely going to try soon


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Do these people actually own one or just assume it's not the right shape for them.
> One thing i've noticed is that when it comes to mouses people are very conservative, if it doesn't have the 'traditional' microsoft shape it's pretty much considered garbage.


Bought the G302, TWICE just to try and get used to it, no luck.
Actually most people in here buy and try alot of mice, so I think people on OC actually tried more mice then most other people.


----------



## aleexkrysel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> The shape is fine if you actually know how logitech designed it to be gripped. I keep seeing pictures of people holding the mouse in weird ways that make it uncomfortable, then complaining about it.
> 
> It's like watching someone try to fingertip a steelseries rival


How are you supposed to grip it? I'm gonna go to town to try it out tomorrow and usually fingertip.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Actually most people in here buy and try alot of mice, so I think people on OC actually tried more mice then most other people.


Could be we are just morons with money







.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Several reviews and tech specs report it to weight 87 grams which is the same as the first FK. It's obvious that this mouse is not for you and yet you still just continue talking about it. For example I think that the Aurora is too light and chose to use the KPM instead. Amazing how much more relaxed my aim is when the weight is on the sweet spot.


I saw this video.






Then I saw this video.






I thnk the quoted 87g is not including the cable attached. Either way, the mouse weighs at least as much as the 124mm long FK that has 4 side buttons, yet it is 115mm long with 2 side buttons. I posted a link showing if you remove the right side buttons on the FK you can get it to ~78g.

I keep talking about mice because that is what you do in a forum about mice. It's not like this is the only mouse or company I talk about. Someone made a comment about LEDs not adding weight, I responded to that. I don't see why people are so defensive about this mouse and Logitech. I am just discussing the engineering aspects of mice, for some reason that makes people butt hurt.


----------



## fxniqab

What is logitech doing. Best sensor performance with a perculiar shape. Why wouldnt they chose a more common neutral shape like the g100s.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Several reviews and tech specs report it to weight 87 grams which is the same as the first FK. It's obvious that this mouse is not for you and yet you still just continue talking about it. For example I think that the Aurora is too light and chose to use the KPM instead. Amazing how much more relaxed my aim is when the weight is on the sweet spot.


Yeah I can't stand mice that are too light.
G502 is perfect for me. And I can play 8 hours a day on it and not get tired.
It is too heavy with weights, though. Without, it's fine.

Why do people act like a 90g mouse is going to make their arm fall off or something? Is everyone on their forum skinny as a twig with tiny hands? Jesus.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> What is logitech doing. Best sensor performance with a perculiar shape. Why wouldnt they chose a more common neutral shape like the g100s.


G100s shape doesn't look like a space ship


----------



## exitone

The shape is fine if you actually know how logitech designed it to be gripped. I keep seeing pictures of people holding the mouse in weird ways that make it uncomfortable, then complaining about it.

It's like watching someone try to fingertip a steelseries rival

thanks for deleting my comment whoever did it


----------



## darkfirebg

Do you guys know when it will be launched throughout Europe? The official distributor here in Bulgaria told me that the mouse will hit the shelves not earlier then the end of April, but i'm not willing to wait that long...


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aleexkrysel*
> 
> How are you supposed to grip it? I'm gonna go to town to try it out tomorrow and usually fingertip.


claw the very front, not grip the lighted area like some people do.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> What is logitech doing. Best sensor performance with a perculiar shape. Why wouldnt they chose a more common neutral shape like the g100s.


Probably because neutral shapes don't sell as well as the new designs do.


----------



## Sencha

Even if the shape doesn't fit me and glad it's not a sensei clone. Actually looking forward to trying something new.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Do you guys know when it will be launched throughout Europe? The official distributor here in Bulgaria told me that the mouse will hit the shelves not earlier then the end of April, but i'm not willing to wait that long...


I just ordered mine from direct from Logitech. In stock already.


----------



## a_ak57

Regarding weight, 87-90g sounds light but the G302/303 feels heavier in practice due to its size and weight distribution. The Sensei Raw is 90g IIRC but it feels way lighter than the G302 in practice due to the larger size and different weight distribution. And the KPM is infamous for feeling much heavier than it is due to these factors.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> What is logitech doing. Best sensor performance with a perculiar shape. Why wouldnt they chose a more common neutral shape like the g100s.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because neutral shapes don't sell as well as the new designs do.
Click to expand...

I doubt the G302 sales were amazing








But would be fun to have numbers on G302 vs G100s.

Also There is no reason to try and make something so out of this world to try and increase sales.
Because the mice that sells best are the tried and true shapes like sensei, Deathadder, MX/G400.


----------



## FredgHar

Best selling shapes are those of Deathadder/Rival and such of intellimouse shape(according to what ive heard), also those like sensei-shaped mouse are selling nicely. So this weird shaping of logitech is at least bit interesting...


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Do you guys know when it will be launched throughout Europe? The official distributor here in Bulgaria told me that the mouse will hit the shelves not earlier then the end of April, but i'm not willing to wait that long...


Dutch site says the 19th.

http://www.bol.com/nl/p/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-wired-gaming-muis-performance-edition-zwart/9200000039909588/


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FredgHar*
> 
> Best selling shapes are those of Deathadder/Rival and such of intellimouse shape(according to what ive heard), also those like sensei-shaped mouse are selling nicely. So this weird shaping of logitech is at least bit interesting...


I hate Logitech's "science wins"...
There isent much science in the way they shaped the G302/g303, other then the heat thing they did lol.

It would be intersting if they would make something anatomically correct to the hand, in order to get best performance.
I said in a post that I hate when the mice is very flat, cause its not natural for my fingers to be lay flat against a flat surface.
Your fingers are never flat, it curves naturally. But I guess it is for those who use claw...


----------



## Imprecision

ITT palm players complaining that the 303 is shaped for claw and finger

The G502 already exists guys


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I doubt the G302 sales were amazing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But would be fun to have numbers on G302 vs G100s.
> 
> Also There is no reason to try and make something so out of this world to try and increase sales.
> Because the mice that sells best are the tried and true shapes like sensei, Deathadder, MX/G400.


The best selling mouse last year at Amazon was the G502. After that it was some cheap mouse with lightning strike painting. Those older shapes by Logitech _were_ best selling maybe, but you have to go with the times.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I hate Logitech's "science wins"...
> There isent much science in the way they shaped the G302/g303, other then the heat thing they did lol.
> 
> It would be intersting if they would make something anatomically correct to the hand, in order to get best performance.
> I said in a post that I hate when the mice is very flat, cause its not natural for my fingers to be lay flat against a flat surface.
> Your fingers are never flat, it curves naturally. But I guess it is for those who use claw...


I believe there is a lot more to designing shapes which they won't publish.


----------



## Derp

Might want to inform your co-workers about that G600 image on the G303 page.


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> ITT palm players complaining that the 303 is shaped for claw and finger
> 
> The G502 already exists guys


Funny, as I would say it's meant for palm players.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I believe there is a lot more to designing shapes which they won't publish.


Even in science, there is publications with biased claims but you can often detect it when you read carefully how the experiment was conducted.

Regarding the the heat map and its presentation, I hardly think it was done purely for the sake of science. There was at least some part of tech. advertisement. Also Logitech has a lot of expertise but (sorry to state the obvious) their goal is to sell and not necessarily to make the most comfortable mouse. There is a lot of other parameters. For instance, it's possible the shape is meant to look good in the shop (IMO it does) and is good enough to hold for most customers.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Funny, as I would say it's meant for palm players.


How can you think that it's for palm players? Can you explain, or draw a picture, or take a photo of your hand on the G302 or something?


----------



## vinzbe

My (bad?) reasoning is that you can only grab the mouse at its front and therefore you are forced to press your palm on the back.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> My (bad?) reasoning is that you can only grab the mouse at its front and therefore you are forced to press your palm on the back.


This would be the case if your hand is small enough, but I guess with an average hand, g302 can be used as a fingertip or a claw-hold fingertip mouse.


----------



## vinzbe

I don't know what you consider an average hand, mine is 19 cm long (from palm to middle finger). For me fingertip is out of question as the weight is too much on the back.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I hate Logitech's "science wins"...


It's now "Game with passion, Win with science"


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> I don't know what you consider an average hand, mine is 19 cm long (from palm to middle finger). For me fingertip is out of question as the weight is too much on the back.


I had a similiar issue on day 1 using EVGA X5 but my grip corrected itself by instinct to a lower LOD and it did the trick.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> I don't know what you consider an average hand, mine is 19 cm long (from palm to middle finger). For me fingertip is out of question as the weight is too much on the back.


That made me think about what I'm doing when I'm lifting the mouse. It seems, with the fingers I have on the left and right mouse button, I push down a little on the front of the mouse to counteract the back of it falling down.


----------



## yukino

LOGITECH PLS, still not shipped.. crying right now.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I doubt the G302 sales were amazing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But would be fun to have numbers on G302 vs G100s.
> 
> Also There is no reason to try and make something so out of this world to try and increase sales.
> Because the mice that sells best are the tried and true shapes like sensei, Deathadder, MX/G400.
> 
> 
> 
> The best selling mouse last year at Amazon was the G502. After that it was some cheap mouse with lightning strike painting. Those older shapes by Logitech _were_ best selling maybe, but you have to go with the times.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

I know you defend logitech for a reason, as other people defend other companies, but still.

Did the shape of G502 and G302 really help it sell more? Hardly.

Also Deathadder is nr1 on other amazons like UK.

You don't think G502 sells well only because of it's spaceship design I hope.
Because If it had the old shape it would be right where the g502 is, as it always has with the older shapes.

Also DA still ranks in top3 with the exact shape it had for years and years.
Making mice spaceship designed with very odd design choices like G302,G502 is NOT needed, in any way or shape to move sales.


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> ITT palm players complaining that the 303 is shaped for claw and finger
> 
> The G502 already exists guys


G502 also weights like a ton of bricks. Why is it that palm mice have to be heavy? I don't get why with all the resources these companies have, we can't get a ~80g large, ergonomic mouse.

I guarantee the only reason any of the C9 players even touch the g302/3 is because of weight and the fact that the sensor can track high speeds. The shape is complete ****.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

So the 303 is just a 302 with a 3366 sensor? Why all the hype?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> ITT palm players complaining that the 303 is shaped for claw and finger
> 
> The G502 already exists guys


502 is a fluff mouse for casuals. There is no valid reason to design a mouse for a specific grip only. You can easily make a mouse that is ideal for all 3 grips and the vast majority of hand sizes.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So the 303 is just a 302 with a 3366 sensor? Why all the hype?


Because of 3366 in a shape that's not this:


----------



## yukino

Holy****, what just happend here? Only see the hate about the mouse. :O


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There is no valid reason to design a mouse for a specific grip only. You can easily make a mouse that is ideal for all 3 grips and the vast majority of hand sizes.


/thread

it's pretty obvious that logitech designed the g302/3's shape to look unique rather than be comfortable for the most amount of people.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Because of 3366 in a shape that's not this:


3366 is nothing to write home about though. There are much better sensors/implementations than the 3366, unless they make significant changes with the 303.

The 502 was pure marketing and hype, which seems to be the norm for logitech.


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> /thread
> 
> It's pretty obvious that logitech designed the g302/3's shape to look unique rather than be comfortable for the most amount of people.


Agree. All of their mice look uncomfortable with the exception of the g100s. Too bad it has double click issues, bad sensor position, horrible glide, and an inferior sensor compared to the rest of their line up. Funny thing is they have the classic shapes that they refuse to use for some reason.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 3366 is nothing to write home about though. There are much better sensors/implementations than the 3366, unless they make significant changes with the 303.
> 
> The 502 was pure marketing and hype, which seems to be the norm for logitech.


I'd like to see for myself.

But the G502 shape is beyond unusable for me so that was a no go.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I know you defend logitech for a reason, as other people defend other companies, but still.
> 
> Did the shape of G502 and G302 really help it sell more? Hardly.
> 
> Also Deathadder is nr1 on other amazons like UK.
> 
> You don't think G502 sells well only because of it's spaceship design I hope.
> Because If it had the old shape it would be right where the g502 is, as it always has with the older shapes.
> 
> Also DA still ranks in top3 with the exact shape it had for years and years.
> Making mice spaceship designed with very odd design choices like G302,G502 is NOT needed, in any way or shape to move sales.


Oh I'm not trying to defend really, I don't think it is the best shape ever. There's a reason I still use the FK1. But the question "WHY THIS SHAPE?" gets thrown around so much that I thought I'd chime in with a logical argument that gets overlooked by enthusiasts too much. And Logitech won't publish their sales numbers, so we won't know how well it went.


----------



## Brightmist

With all the truck-sized palm-grip mice around, I suspect that they did a 3366 implementation of 302 because it sold nicely.


----------



## jigglywiggly

I don't even understand how people are complaining about the weight of the mouse. My hands are 18cm and my wrists are extremely skinny. The weight is a complete non-issue.
The shape is great as well for people who can aim.

Only reason I want the 303 is because of the new moues cord. The 302's sensor is perfectly fine.


----------



## semantics

You can't really make a nice mouse for the 3 common grips, A good palm mouse doesn't make a good fingertip mouse they require opposite design choices. A palm mouse should be longer to accommodate a hand and fingertip mouse should be as short as possible so a person can move the mouse with their fingers without their hand getting in the way. Same with with the hump a palm mouse wants a larger hump to rest for the palm and fingertip mouse wants the opposite because the palm gets in the way. Granted if you get the size right you can make a mouse that tends to be nice for palm /claw or claw/fingertip but you can't really make a nice mouse for all 3 if you assume everyone has the same sized hand.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> I guarantee the only reason any of the C9 players even touch the g302/3 is because of weight and the fact that the sensor can track high speeds. The shape is complete ****.


I think most of them use a finger tip style grip and higher sensitivity. Makes sense they would like the shape with such a play style. However, the players that use the G302/3 seem to have lower accuracy than they had before. Hiko and Nothing have better accuracy when they use the other mice instead. I was wondering why they had decreased in accuracy during a tournament, then I found out they switched their mice. Maybe that is coincidence, maybe not.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think most of them use a finger tip style grip and higher sensitivity. Makes sens they would like the shape with such a play style. However, the players that use the G302/3 seem to have lower accuracy than they had before. Hiko and Nothing have better accuracy when they use the other mice instead. I was wondering why they had decreased in accuracy during a tournament, then I found out they switched their mice. Maybe that is coincidence, maybe not.


they are probably not used to it.. I mean it takes a while and they used their other mice for a long time.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Hiko and Nothing have better accuracy when they use the other mice instead. I was wondering why they had decreased in accuracy during a tournament, then I found out they switched their mice. Maybe that is coincidence, maybe not.


n0thing still won't touch the G303/G302/G402/G502. He's still boot camping with the G100s.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> they are probably not used to it.. I mean it takes a while and they used their other mice for a long time.


n0thing have been using sensei for awhile havent he?
Then to g100s.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> 3366 is nothing to write home about though. There are much better sensors/implementations than the 3366, unless they make significant changes with the 303.


As with everything you post, that's your sole opinion.


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Hiko recently switched to that Diablo III Sensei RAW re-brand, and he seems to really like it. I remember him saying he'd use the G100s as his primary if it wasn't for the lack of side buttons.


----------



## thrillhaus

I bought a g302 a few days ago to try out. I hated the shape at first coming from a Zowie AM, but I've gotten used to it now. I might not end up keeping it though as I have a KPM coming in tomorrow and that mouse felt much more instantly comfortable to me when I tried it in store. But the g302 to me is tolerable enough to choose over something supremely comfortable but with inferior performance (ie; Zowie button lag).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah I can't stand mice that are too light.
> G502 is perfect for me. And I can play 8 hours a day on it and not get tired.
> It is too heavy with weights, though. Without, it's fine.
> 
> Why do people act like a 90g mouse is going to make their arm fall off or something? Is everyone on their forum skinny as a twig with tiny hands? Jesus.


It's about easier glide and fast transitions. Also for people who lift their mouse a lot.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jigglywiggly*
> 
> I don't even understand how people are complaining about the weight of the mouse. My hands are 18cm and my wrists are extremely skinny. The weight is a complete non-issue.


Some people like to be able to nudge the mouse to make a very slight change. Heavier mice require more effort to move, which can be bad for certain mouse pads.

If a mouse has a bad shape and/or coating the weight can make control and comfort worse than a lighter mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> they are probably not used to it.. I mean it takes a while and they used their other mice for a long time.


They were using it for awhile before they went to that tournament. They played a lot with the new mice during boot camp. Nothing and Hiko decided they were better off not using the new designs ever.

Nothing [Jordan] seems to have better statistical accuracy than his other teammates when he uses the G100S. You can tell by watching him that he is much better with that mouse and his new settings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrvirtualboy*
> 
> Hiko recently switched to that Diablo III Sensei RAW re-brand, and he seems to really like it. I remember him saying he'd use the G100s as his primary if it wasn't for the lack of side buttons.


He was using the G400S and G402, but he didn't like them like he did the G100S. He didn't want to use the other Logitech mice either. It seems he is more into the FK, Sensei and G100S type shapes.


----------



## donutvampire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They were using it for awhile before they went to that tournament. They played a lot with the new mice during boot camp. Nothing and Hiko decided they were better off not using the new designs ever.
> 
> Nothing [Jordan] seems to have better statistical accuracy than his other teammates when he uses the G100S. You can tell by watching him that he is much better with that mouse and his new settings.
> He was using the G400S and G402, but he didn't like them like he did the G100S. He didn't want to use the other Logitech mice either. It seems he is more into the FK, Sensei and G100S type shapes.


I think Shroud has the best aim out of all of cloud9 and he uses the g302/g303. You cant compare mice by what players use them.


----------



## qsxcv

iirc n0thing mentioned on stream that he's not using the g302 because the rear is too skinny


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> I think Shroud has the best aim out of all of cloud9 and he uses the g302/g303.


The stats I seen say otherwise.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They were using it for awhile before they went to that tournament. They played a lot with the new mice during boot camp. Nothing and Hiko decided they were better off not using the new designs ever.
> 
> Nothing [Jordan] seems to have better statistical accuracy than his other teammates when he uses the G100S. You can tell by watching him that he is much better with that mouse and his new settings.
> He was using the G400S and G402, but he didn't like them like he did the G100S. He didn't want to use the other Logitech mice either. It seems he is more into the FK, Sensei and G100S type shapes.


sad that this company wont even make a mouse for their pro teams, making a g102 with 3366 and better build quality is not hard but they refuse to do it


----------



## CorruptBE

Well I'll try this mouse but I do agree: a G100(s) shape would be more desirable. Though if the shape doesn't bother me and the performance is better then the FK2 I might stick with it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> You can't really make a nice mouse for the 3 common grips, A good palm mouse doesn't make a good fingertip mouse they require opposite design choices. A palm mouse should be longer to accommodate a hand and fingertip mouse should be as short as possible so a person can move the mouse with their fingers without their hand getting in the way. Same with with the hump a palm mouse wants a larger hump to rest for the palm and fingertip mouse wants the opposite because the palm gets in the way. Granted if you get the size right you can make a mouse that tends to be nice for palm /claw or claw/fingertip but you can't really make a nice mouse for all 3 if you assume everyone has the same sized hand.


Sure you can. Length isn't that important for palm grip. With the Aurora my fingers go over the front of the mouse and touch the pad in front of the mouse and it doesn't cause issues for me. The only problem is the narrowness of the Aurora. And narrowness isn't a requirement for a good fingertip grip mouse. A wider aurora or FK1 would be useable in every grip for the vast majority of people.


----------



## jigglywiggly

You can preorder it on amazon now.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> Agree. All of their mice look uncomfortable with the exception of the g100s. Too bad it has double click issues, bad sensor position, horrible glide, and an inferior sensor compared to the rest of their line up. Funny thing is they have the classic shapes that they refuse to use for some reason.


Wat


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Sure you can. Length isn't that important for palm grip. With the Aurora my fingers go over the front of the mouse and touch the pad in front of the mouse and it doesn't cause issues for me. The only problem is the narrowness of the Aurora. And narrowness isn't a requirement for a good fingertip grip mouse. A wider aurora or FK1 would be useable in every grip for the vast majority of people.


The issue with longer mice, for finger tip, is how the buttons actuate. You can hold the mouse towards the rear, but that can make pressing the buttons impossible or harder. The Sensei's shape is designed so you can move the mouse with your finger at the rear.


----------



## e4stw00t

302 shape works fine for me, then again I have a rather loose claw grip that some might descripe closer to a fingertip grip - if you tend to hold your mouse more tight or palm it (which I can hardly see working at all) the back design might be a deal breaker - a g100s shape would indeed suit to an overall bigger audience.

Unfortunately the outcome of their internal research on how people grip their mice let to the ...rather interesting 302 shape and since they have created the mold for that one they need to use it to justify the investment in the form to begin with. Would have prefered Logitech sticked to the "if it's not broken don't fix it" mantra and kept the 100s form for it's smaller dimensioned mice.


----------



## MasterBash

Tried some other mice that I have just for fun...

I cant stand the buttons on other mice anymore lol. The ones on the g302 are so good. I wish other manufacturers would do the same.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The issue with longer mice, for finger tip, is how the buttons actuate. You can hold the mouse towards the rear, but that can make pressing the buttons impossible or harder. The Sensei's shape is designed so you can move the mouse with your finger at the rear.


I know








I was talking about palm grip & length.


----------



## Mych

They could craft a mouse that would work "OK" for most people (and the 3 grip archetypes) but not exactly "ideal". Just too subjective of an issue. I found G302 quite nice for three-finger-on-top-grip, but only just tolerable for two fingers which I mostly use. You can make it more comfortable with a bit of cutting/sanding and glueing some extra texture to the back side (fattening), but that takes some doing to the get right and might still not be ideal.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> They could craft a mouse that would work "OK" for most people (and the 3 grip archetypes) but not exactly "ideal". Just too subjective of an issue. I found G302 quite nice for three-finger-on-top-grip, but only just tolerable for two fingers which I mostly use. You can make it more comfortable with a bit of cutting/sanding and glueing some extra texture to the back side (fattening), but that takes some doing to the get right and might still not be ideal.


What do you mean with 3 on top grip? Three fingers on mouse buttons?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> What do you mean with 3 on top grip? Three fingers on mouse buttons?


basically one finger on lmb, one on scroll wheel and one on rmb. pinly and thumb gripping the sides.


----------



## pinobot

How you hold the mouse is just too difficult too predict from the shape.
I use a Sensei raw and thought i liked the shape a lot but just a few days ago i really started looking at how i hold the mouse.
Turns out that when i game i push my thumb upwards to straighten the mouse, this makes reaching the forward thumb button hard to reach. In Windows i hold the mouse at an angle so i don't have that problem then.


----------



## TK421

Does this come with side scrolling wheel and toggle frictionless scrolling?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Does this come with side scrolling wheel and toggle frictionless scrolling?


no and no,


----------



## TK421

What's the button up top for then? DPi?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> What's the button up top for then? DPi?


It's a normal button and can be whatever you want (I mean, it's not some mechanical thingy for doing things to a free-wheel mechanism). By default, it should be cycling through the default dpi steps.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> What's the button up top for then? DPi?


DPI button

an interesting note, officical stat does have triple profile, but there's no more room for profile button, so yeah.


----------



## Necroblob

I think people are being rather negative. Logitech have clearly listened to this forum because they appear to have improved the cord and fixed the wobble issue. It is also the first time in years that a major manufacturer has put their top of the range sensor in a small and light mouse.

As always there is still room for improvement. The G303 shape could have less angular sides and taper less aggressively and the weight could be reduced. But at least we are one step closer to the dream of a G102 with 3366 sensor.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> But at least we are one step closer to the dream of a G102 with 3366 sensor.


You spelled G9x wrong.


----------



## Sencha

Cancelled my order. Not because this mouse won't be a good fit but because I highly doubt it will dethrone the FK1 for me. Just wanted something new to play with. But the FK1 is just perfection for me still. Looking forward to hearing some thoughts on it though.


----------



## fxniqab

Can i use it with my left hand ?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> I think people are being rather negative. Logitech have clearly listened to this forum because they appear to have improved the cord and fixed the wobble issue. It is also the first time in years that a major manufacturer has put their top of the range sensor in a small and light mouse.
> 
> As always there is still room for improvement. The G303 shape could have less angular sides and taper less aggressively and the weight could be reduced. But at least we are one step closer to the dream of a G102 with 3366 sensor.


If you give a mouse a cookie, He's going to ask for a glass of milk. That's why listen to random 1337 forum are always a bad idea.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> Can i use it with my left hand ?


If you don't mind side button bumping on your ring finger yeah


----------



## yukino

So Logitech got no E-mail support? That's strange..


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Cancelled my order. Not because this mouse won't be a good fit but because I highly doubt it will dethrone the FK1 for me. Just wanted something new to play with. But the FK1 is just perfection for me still. Looking forward to hearing some thoughts on it though.


If you are happy with huanos there is 0 reason to buy a new mouse tbh








I would love to use FK2 as my main mouse but the switches are just to stiff for my taste.


----------



## fxniqab

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> If you don't mind side button bumping on your ring finger yeah


I had the g3 that has 2 sidee buttons, 1 on each side. You think with bith sidebuttons next t each other would be no problem ?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> I had the g3 that has 2 sidee buttons, 1 on each side. You think with bith sidebuttons next t each other would be no problem ?


Do you understand that this mouse only has side buttons on the left side, and that there are no mirrored side buttons on the right side?


----------



## fxniqab

Yes i got that. Saw pictures of the mouse thats why i was asking if it is ok for lefties. I had the g3 before and it worked out


----------



## MasterBash

Ya it works fine for me. My fingers dont touch the buttons when I use my left hand. I use my right hand, though.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> If you are happy with huanos there is 0 reason to buy a new mouse tbh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to use FK2 as my main mouse but the switches are just to stiff for my taste.


It was my main reason for cancelling. I love the stiff Huanos. Other switches just don't feel tactile enough now. I was just getting carried away with shiny new things. Funny even though I've found my end game mouse in the FK1 I still look.......oh the human condition


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> So Logitech got no E-mail support? That's strange..


Yeah no live chat either. Pretty poor. Had to call to cancel. Old school. Surprised they didn't want me to hand write a letter using quill and parchment and send it via carrier pigeon.


----------



## yukino

Got an e-mail from UPS <3 It's finally here tomorrow.


----------



## Sencha

Me too even though I cancelled


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Me too even though I cancelled


Haha







such a nice support.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Got an e-mail from UPS <3 It's finally here tomorrow.


Same here


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> sad that this company wont even make a mouse for their pro teams, making a g102 with 3366 and better build quality is not hard but they refuse to do it


Seems like there's a breakdown in communication between the shot callers at Logitech and the rest of the universe. While it is a good thing they aggresively attacked the smoothing problem right after it hit it's climax with comical mice like the G600 and original Deathadder 2013, they seemed to ignore the fact that few if any people seem to prefer the G302 shape over just a standard, normal, ambidextrous mouse shape like the Wheel mouse optical, Kana, Sensei, G3, or G100. Someone made the decision to force the G302 shape on people again even though most people only find it tolerable at best.

The last time someone tried to stray from the norm with small, ambidextrous mice was probably the Razer Diamondback. Most people seem to prefer the Diamondback shape over the G302 shape, and Razer discontinued the Diamondback, I'm guessing because it didn't sell as good as the Deathadder, but I have no idea. It's also possible Razer does things for no logical reason, but if the Diamondback was discontinued due to sales, then it's not a good sign for the G302 shape when most people seem to prefer the Diamondback shape over it.

It's very odd that even though Microsoft, Steelseries, Zowie, and others have all identified a single particular mouse shape as being the most effective for comfort and control for the broadest amount of people, Logitech, while being the biggest peripheral company around, refuses to use it.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> such a nice support.


Apparently 11 hours wasn't enough notice to cancel. Oh how the mighty have fallen. I remember when Logitech CS use to be great. Now they are tempting me as I have to refuse delivery. Sigh....come on will power you can do it.....can't you?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Apparently 11 hours wasn't enough notice to cancel. Oh how the mighty have fallen. I remember when Logitech CS use to be great. Now they are tempting me as I have to refuse delivery. Sigh....come on will power you can do it.....can't you?


Can always sell it after in the case you don't like it.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Same here


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Apparently 11 hours wasn't enough notice to cancel. Oh how the mighty have fallen. I remember when Logitech CS use to be great. Now they are tempting me as I have to refuse delivery. Sigh....come on will power you can do it.....can't you?


Nice one Corrupt!









Just do it like me, I got it on Amazon for 56€ and I'll sell it soon


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Seems like there's a breakdown in communication between the shot callers at Logitech and the rest of the universe. While it is a good thing they aggresively attacked the smoothing problem right after it hit it's climax with comical mice like the G600 and original Deathadder 2013, they seemed to ignore the fact that few if any people seem to prefer the G302 shape over just a standard, normal, ambidextrous mouse shape like the Wheel mouse optical, Kana, Sensei, G3, or G100. Someone made the decision to force the G302 shape on people again even though most people only find it tolerable at best.
> 
> The last time someone tried to stray from the norm with small, ambidextrous mice was probably the Razer Diamondback. Most people seem to prefer the Diamondback shape over the G302 shape, and Razer discontinued the Diamondback, I'm guessing because it didn't sell as good as the Deathadder, but I have no idea. It's also possible Razer does things for no logical reason, but if the Diamondback was discontinued due to sales, then it's not a good sign for the G302 shape when most people seem to prefer the Diamondback shape over it.
> 
> It's very odd that even though Microsoft, Steelseries, Zowie, and others have all identified a single particular mouse shape as being the most effective for comfort and control for the broadest amount of people, Logitech, while being the biggest peripheral company around, refuses to use it.


They had their chance to do something different with the G303, but they chose not to. I guess because it is a safer investment than trying another symmetrical shape with 4 side buttons. I don't see them releasing another symmetrical shape for years, if at all, especially if the G302 and G303 doesn't sell well. Although it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy with a shape like the G302/3. I don't think the new corporate structure is keen for another attempt.

I think the Diamondback was out because it was looked at as the old mouse from years gone by. Also the DeathAdder was the new best thing, regardless of options available people bought it first. They sold newer symmetrical shapes after the Diamondback becauise new things sell better than old things. At this point I think the DeathAdder has reached its peak, but I doubt they will kill it for something else.


----------



## thizito

g9x with OK sensor position
g100s with 3366 and better clicks
g1/g3/mx300 with 3366 and better clicks

btw.. 150$ for order in amazon to Brazil
even if it was 50$ i wouldnt order this spaceshipg303


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> As with everything you post, that's your sole opinion.


what are the technical diffrences between the 3366 sensor and the one used in g302? i know 3366 is supposed to be a "new" architecture but can it effect more then max speed?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Although it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy with a shape like the G302/3. I don't think the new corporate structure is keen for another attempt.


Is it.
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-PC-Gaming-Mice/zgbs/electronics/402052011
SS rival in is the first "traditional" shape and it's 13th on top sellers for amazon. There are a ton of "wrose" mice that outsell it with "bad shapes" and "bad sensors".

Should also point out that the top 5 sellers are G700s, G600 black, G602, G600 white and G502 in order.

FK1 is 19th
FinalMouse 2015 37th
G100s is 80th

Looking at wish lists
http://www.amazon.com/gp/most-wished-for/electronics/402052011/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_mw
G502 is number 1
FK1 20th
Rival 21st
FinalMouse 33rd

I would note that G302 is not listed as a gaming mouse by amazon.com for some reason and thus can't make the list same with the G402, they are just listed as computer mice. Which doesn't include alot of the same mice as some mice on the gaming mice category aren't in the computer mice catagory it's really weird. Such as the G502 is listed as gaming mouse only the G700s is listed in both gaming and computer mice.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Computer-Mice/zgbs/electronics/11036491
G700s 1st <- so it's 1st in both categories.
G402 is 48th
FK1 is 73rd

The G302 is listed as less popular than the FK2 neither appear on top 100 sellers

http://www.amazon.com/gp/most-wished-for/electronics/11036491/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_mw
Looking at wish lists
2nd is DA Chroma
12th is G602
13th is G700s
G402 is 23rd
FK1 is 35th
G302 is 59th

Can't really say that tastes of this forum are the same as the general public or that this forum can keep a mouse afloat if you just cater to us.

Btw i hated the diamondback's shape it's sides were impossible to grip because they curved in such a manner that if you grip the sides the mouse shifts up, it was by far the worst mouse shape i've ever used as a fingertip grip user. It was barely tolerable if i claw gripped it.


----------



## Sencha

The only problems I see with those figures is here in the UK zowie mice on amazon.co.uk have always been 5-10£ more expensive then say OcUK or Kustompcs. So people will just go there. Where as the Logitech mice are cheapest on Amazon. In the UK at least.

I guess in the US though Zowie are cheapest on Amazon? Or you guys don't really have any small independents?


----------



## yukino

Hopefully I'll get it tomorrow.
Shouldn't be soooo bad, I mean everybody from C9 except of n0thing using it.

They are playing in Katowice and I don't think they would play that important tournament with something what is uncomfortable for them.


----------



## Sencha

Well I'm sure they can play amazing with it. I guess the real question would be, would any of them use it outside of sponsorship? Answer....probably not









What's important is weather or not its a perfect fit for you. There's some great mice out at the moment (you wouldnt think it on here though







) and this defo looks like one of them.

I think from what the advert implies the G303 will arrive at your house tomorrow hovering 4 feet off the floor. You'll open the door and it will just be there. You'll ask it in and it will go in to hyper drive and soar gracefully up to your room and land on your desk ready to be used. They installed this tech in the mouse because the shape's so terrible it makes the vast amount of returns far easier.


----------



## Aventadoor

I cant wait to see how it is with my rather big hands. Havent seen any with bigger hands gripping it with fingertipish grip.


----------



## yukino

@Sencha

sure, but they could use any product of Logitech.. right?









Finally something for my small girly hands


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> @Sencha
> 
> sure, but they could use any product of Logitech.. right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally something for my small girly hands


Yeah for sure. Clearly it's a great mouse. If I was sponsored by Logitech it would be my choice fo sho. Going to be hard to turn it away at the door tomorrow. Oh the temptation!


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's about easier glide and fast transitions. Also for people who lift their mouse a lot.
> Some people like to be able to nudge the mouse to make a very slight change. Heavier mice require more effort to move, which can be bad for certain mouse pads.
> 
> If a mouse has a bad shape and/or coating the weight can make control and comfort worse than a lighter mouse.


Fair enough,
But I play COD AW and Black Ops 2 with 40 cm/360 with no problems on my G502.
I do have big hands, but I'm not weak.

I take it it's only CS:Go players who are raging about the two Logitech 3366 mice ? The ones who use 90 cm/360 and have to lift the mouse 2 times to do a 180?


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Yeah for sure. Clearly it's a great mouse. If I was sponsored by Logitech it would be my choice fo sho. Going to be hard to turn it away at the door tomorrow. Oh the temptation!


It is for sure







already loving it..

Aww dude.. that sucks. Just try it out maybe? You can sell it on ebay afterwards if you dont like it.


----------



## Brightmist

I don't think any decent CS:GO player would be using 90/360, that's way too slow. Average should be around 30-60/360.

I'm personally using about 55/360 for all the FPS games and can do a 180 in one flick pretty much.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I don't think any decent CS:GO player would be using 90/360, that's way too slow. Average should be around 30-60/360.


https://www.facebook.com/CSGuardiaN/info?tab=page_info


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> I think people are being rather negative. Logitech have clearly listened to this forum because they appear to have improved the cord and fixed the wobble issue. It is also the first time in years that a major manufacturer has put their top of the range sensor in a small and light mouse.
> 
> As always there is still room for improvement. The G303 shape could have less angular sides and taper less aggressively and the weight could be reduced. But at least we are one step closer to the dream of a G102 with 3366 sensor.


I have to agree.
Cpate works for Logitech and reads this forum. He knows that you can't make ALL people happy. Just because 10 toxic vocal people want a particular shape that NO ONE ELSE wants, doesn't mean that Logitech will spend R&D to "Razer" their product line. But clearly the G502 has sold VERY well. If you read the comments from angry people on this forum, you would think that the G502 was the WORST mouse ever made in history. But Amazon reviews > this forum. That's their customer base, NOT the vocal (angry) people on this forum. And according to BOTH amazon and newegg (NG comments have to be taken with salt, though), Logitech made a good mouse.

True, the weakest point is the scroll wheel ,but at least it WORKS (even if you have to use free scroll mode) ,which is far more than I can say for the scroll wheel on the Deathadder Black edition or even the 3G...move it forward, it goes backwards twice then forwards.......yep...(the second BE is reliable but that's still virtually a barely used new mouse (I had bought two).


----------



## donutvampire

How are people getting the mouse already isn't the release date march 15th?


----------



## semantics

Logitech broke it's own street date and amazon is known for breaking street date.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/CSGuardiaN/info?tab=page_info


That guy's @ 80/360.


----------



## r0ach

I just noticed Logitech has thrown in some extra marketing jargon for this mouse that wasn't on G100s, G302, G402, G502. When they write "zero filtering", hopefully this addresses the issue of G302 vs G402 where I saw that the G302 clearly had more error correction going on with the sensor than G402, or possibly "filtering" as they refer to it. As for "clock tuning technology", I'm not sure what this refers to.

*
G302
Exclusive Clock Tuning Technology
Delta Zero Technology
Zero Smoothing
Zero Filtering
No Pixel Rounding
No Pixel Doubling
Sensor Surface Tuning*


----------



## Omega X

The 302 is down $20 from the 303. I'm seriously debating on which one to get 502 or 302.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega X*
> 
> The 302 is down $20 from the 303. I'm seriously debating on which one to get 502 or 302.


Not many non-casual gamers use G502 for a reason. The sensor is good, but the weight is too high, the weight balance is about as bad as it gets due to the huge metal scroll wheel, and the glide is pretty poor due to the strange feet layout. Most people like it at first, then those large negatives cause them to shelf the mouse.

The G402 basically fixes all the problems of the G502 then tosses in a worse sensor for the hell of it lol. If there was a god I'm sure he would be hated for making bad design decisions in every mouse he created.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I have to agree.
> Cpate works for Logitech and reads this forum. He knows that you can't make ALL people happy. Just because 10 toxic vocal people want a particular shape that NO ONE ELSE wants, doesn't mean that Logitech will spend R&D to "Razer" their product line. But clearly the G502 has sold VERY well. If you read the comments from angry people on this forum, you would think that the G502 was the WORST mouse ever made in history. But Amazon reviews > this forum. That's their customer base, NOT the vocal (angry) people on this forum. And according to BOTH amazon and newegg (NG comments have to be taken with salt, though), Logitech made a good mouse.


I think the major complaints about the G402 and G502 wasn't about the shape; not that the size couldn't have been better in some areas. The complaints (I seen) were about the amount of buttons, weight, scroll wheel, cable, feet, etc. More about the overall design philosophy. It's the G302/3 that gets a lot of complaints about the shape.

Since the G402 and G502 have a lot of buttons people will buy it over the G302/3 simply because of that. People who would buy the G302/3 are less likely to want a mouse with a lot of buttons, they are more focused on performance rather than convenience, those types will complain more about shape.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *G302
> Exclusive Clock Tuning Technology
> Delta Zero Technology
> Zero Smoothing
> Zero Filtering
> No Pixel Rounding
> No Pixel Doubling
> Sensor Surface Tuning*


Cpate should define those marketing terms.


----------



## donutvampire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Logitech broke it's own street date and amazon is known for breaking street date.


I can only pre-order on amazon though.


----------



## Melan

My amazon doesn't even have G303.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I just noticed Logitech has thrown in some extra marketing jargon for this mouse that wasn't on G100s, G302, G402, G502. When they write "zero filtering", hopefully this addresses the issue of G302 vs G402 where I saw that the G302 clearly had more error correction going on with the sensor than G402, or possibly "filtering" as they refer to it. As for "clock tuning technology", I'm not sure what this refers to.


only thing i could find. no idea where they got the explanation from, or whether they even understand what they're writing.

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Logitech-Launches-G303-Daedalus-Apex-Gaming-Mouse
Quote:


> Clock Tuning is based on Logitech's inclusion of a crystal that maintains speed and acceleration characteristics despite traditional degradation of these traits over time or due to part-to-part variance. Each G303 should feel the same and the performance should be identical from day one through year one.


i was hoping that it was something that synchronizes the sensor's framerate to something... but i guess it's just something that affects the stability of the speed of the mcu. not sure how this affects mouse response, but it's probably a good thing


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> only thing i could find. no idea where they got the explanation from, or whether they even understand what they're writing.
> 
> http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Logitech-Launches-G303-Daedalus-Apex-Gaming-Mouse
> i was hoping that it was something that synchronizes the sensor's framerate to something... but i guess it's just something that affects the stability of the speed of the mcu. not sure how this affects mouse response, but it's probably a good thing


I assume the oscillator is what they are referring to.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> only thing i could find. no idea where they got the explanation from, or whether they even understand what they're writing.
> 
> http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Logitech-Launches-G303-Daedalus-Apex-Gaming-Mouse
> i was hoping that it was something that synchronizes the sensor's framerate to something... but i guess it's just something that affects the stability of the speed of the mcu. not sure how this affects mouse response, but it's probably a good thing


From my rough understanding of mouse engineering, I think without using a proper crystal oscillator, things like DPI could vary by 5% or so between units, which means 800 DPI could be 760 or 840, a huge difference. Then after using the software to change DPI, it might again go way off. Maybe it helps with the issues I talked about in this post as well:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1544773/how-is-it-possible-this-usb-timing-problem-has-gone-unfixed-for-so-long


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Clock Tuning is based on Logitech's inclusion of a crystal that maintains speed and acceleration characteristics despite traditional degradation of these traits over time or due to part-to-part variance.


I don't think he talks about DPI variance at all as I don't think DPI varies nevermind unit-by-unit but sensor-to-sensor basis if the device is properly built.
I think he's talking about max. PCS and/or polling rate stability.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I have to agree.
> Cpate works for Logitech and reads this forum. He knows that you can't make ALL people happy. Just because 10 toxic vocal people want a particular shape that NO ONE ELSE wants, doesn't mean that Logitech will spend R&D to "Razer" their product line. But clearly the G502 has sold VERY well. If you read the comments from angry people on this forum, you would think that the G502 was the WORST mouse ever made in history. But Amazon reviews > this forum. That's their customer base, NOT the vocal (angry) people on this forum. And according to BOTH amazon and newegg (NG comments have to be taken with salt, though), Logitech made a good mouse.
> 
> True, the weakest point is the scroll wheel ,but at least it WORKS (even if you have to use free scroll mode) ,which is far more than I can say for the scroll wheel on the Deathadder Black edition or even the 3G...move it forward, it goes backwards twice then forwards.......yep...(the second BE is reliable but that's still virtually a barely used new mouse (I had bought two).


Logitech made a good sensor, not a good mouse, unless u find a brick shape with 20 buttons and a weight system good lel


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I don't think he talks about DPI variance at all as I don't think DPI varies nevermind unit-by-unit but sensor-to-sensor basis if the device is properly built.
> I think he's talking about max. PCS and/or polling rate stability.


The pitch just mentions a switch to a more stable oscillator which would improve polling stability (over time and with varying environment conditions - see hot, sweaty gamer hands). Don't see how merely a change in clock type will improve max tracking speed.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> From my rough understanding of mouse engineering, I think without using a proper crystal oscillator, things like DPI could vary by 5% or so between units, which means 800 DPI could be 760 or 840, a huge difference. Then after using the software to change DPI, it might again go way off. Maybe it helps with the issues I talked about in this post as well:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1544773/how-is-it-possible-this-usb-timing-problem-has-gone-unfixed-for-so-long


the crystal determines the clockspeed of the mcu.
from what i know, for optical sensors, dpi is determined by the sensor array's resolution and dimensions, the distance to the tracked surface, and whatever scaling the sensor uses


----------



## Omega X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Not many non-casual gamers use G502 for a reason. The sensor is good, but the weight is too high, the weight balance is about as bad as it gets due to the huge metal scroll wheel, and the glide is pretty poor due to the strange feet layout. Most people like it at first, then those large negatives cause them to shelf the mouse.
> 
> The G402 basically fixes all the problems of the G502 then tosses in a worse sensor for the hell of it lol. If there was a god I'm sure he would be hated for making bad design decisions in every mouse he created.


That sniper button on the 402 concerns me which was the primary reason why I didn't consider it. I can imagine constantly clicking that thing and causing all sorts of problems. I think I could live with the 302 shape since I already semi-claw the G400 I have. But there's no way for me to try these directly unless I take a long drive. So I kind of have to rely on researching online both written and visual.


----------



## Melan

I got my dead FK1 replaced, thanks EU warranty. With omrons and hyperglides reinstalled, now I'm kinda skeptical about getting G303. FK1 does feel comfy even with this button lag (which is noticeable comparing even to 11 year old MX500)


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega X*
> 
> That sniper button on the 402 concerns me which was the primary reason why I didn't consider it. I can imagine constantly clicking that thing and causing all sorts of problems. I think I could live with the 302 shape since I already semi-claw the G400 I have. But there's no way for me to try these directly unless I take a long drive. So I kind of have to rely on researching online both written and visual.


You.can disable the button on hardware level


----------



## qsxcv

g302 pcb in g100s shell

middle click, dpi, and side buttons don't work but who cares








k actually the lack of middle click is annoying but the shape feels SO much better. the sensor is quite a bit higher than on the stock g100s but whatever


----------



## Melan

Holy crap. That's nice!


----------



## Derp

I see frankenmousing is still alive and well in 2015.

Thanks Logitech.


----------



## qsxcv

btw sorry i dont have pics of what it looks like inside, but basically i used flush cutters to rip off any plastic that interfered with the pcb fitting in there. in the end there were no screws holding it together which made it very difficult to close the shell, as the pcb would very easily tilt and wobble. eventually i got lucky and everything aligned, and the left and right buttons were the same height. i'm afraid if i open it up i won't be able to get it align as well again









ill repeat the mod on my other g100s once my g303 arrives and post pics


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Logitech made a good sensor, not a good mouse, unless u find a brick shape with 20 buttons and a weight system good lel


Quite the minority and self-centered opinion there.


----------



## eysen

Logitech, please, make it simple: create a mouse as the G100s with 3366 and at least one side button on each side. Thank you.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eysen*
> 
> Logitech, please, make it simple: create a mouse as the G100s with 3366 and at least one side button on each side. Thank you.


It's clear logitech don't want to continue with their super successful and most loved mice.
We will not even see a G9x refresh which ALOT of people have wanted for a long time.

They will continue to build stupid shapes just because they obviously like space since all their commercials are in space, with their spaceships flying in light speed.
Sad but what you gonna do, either you wanna be luke skywalker and pilot their things, or you gotta stay on ground


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> It's clear logitech don't want to continue with their super successful and most loved mice.
> We will not even see a G9x refresh which ALOT of people have wanted for a long time.
> 
> They will continue to build stupid shapes just because they obviously like space since all their commercials are in space, with their spaceships flying in light speed.
> Sad but what you gonna do, either you wanna be luke skywalker and pilot their things, or you gotta stay on ground


Why would anyone want new G9? Once you change the grip a couple of times, it gets loose and starts wobbling and loses the feel completely.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> It's clear logitech don't want to continue with their super successful and most loved mice.
> We will not even see a G9x refresh which ALOT of people have wanted for a long time.
> 
> They will continue to build stupid shapes just because they obviously like space since all their commercials are in space, with their spaceships flying in light speed.
> Sad but what you gonna do, either you wanna be luke skywalker and pilot their things, or you gotta stay on ground
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone want new G9? Once you change the grip a couple of times, it gets loose and starts wobbling and loses the feel completely.
Click to expand...

I suppose you missed all the petitions and request of a refresh of the g9 over the years.
Also I said refresh, fix the few drawbacks like grip,sensor and you have a mouse everyone wanted.

But ye you are right, spaceships are better


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Quite the minority and self-centered opinion there.


Just typical OCN.


----------



## Mych

I think that G302/3 is a good sign for the future despite those more or less subjective flaws. There wouldn't be so much complaining about the weight of G502 and the shape of G302 if the underlying tech hadn't been so solid and shown innovation (for better or worse). It's extremely frustrating that marketing sacrificed functionality for spaceships, but to me it seems that Logitech actually listens to the feedback. I'd imagine new shapes are just slow to design, hoping these won't reign as long as some of the old ones, though. No doubt the next set of mice will look spacey and ugly as well, but that won't bother me too much if they improve functionality.

Logi:
- Go for the "Classic" marketing angle!
- Make spring tension clicks standard


----------



## CorruptBE

First impression:

Shape isn't bad per se, but could be less pronounced imo. If either the front was thicker, less V shaped toward the front, or the angles when changing angles towards the rear being less strong, it would be easier for people to adapt.

(booya actual constructive criticism instead of mindless bashing)


----------



## pinobot

Just got it in.








The shape is nice, i hold the mouse nice and vertical.
Turning the wheel is a bit too light for me, when clicking it i sometimes accidentally turn it, i also find it too hard to click. The wheel feels solid though, no wobbling, creaking or difference in resistance when turning or anything like that. I think i can get used to it.
The forward side button is too hard to reach with my hands (my hands are about 20 cm). It's also hard to press because it somehow doesn't feel like a button, it's just too narrow.
The mousefeet make a lot of noise on the hard mousemat, hope this changes after some use. These companies should come up with some kind of standard mousefeet already.
The light is just fun to look at, the colors are a far more saturated than on the Logitech website.
Liftoff height is less than 1 mm on G440 mousemat.
The braided cable is flexible for a braided cable and feels strangly velvety. It comes without any kinks in it.


----------



## Maximillion

Did you guys do expedited shipping? I don't have mine yet and I feel mildly jealous.


----------



## yukino

Nah standard shipping.. should come in hot today.


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Why would anyone want new G9? Once you change the grip a couple of times, it gets loose and starts wobbling and loses the feel completely.


No problem with the one I'm using right now. At most, I get a small squeak if I press very hard on it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> First impression:
> 
> Shape isn't bad per se, but could be less pronounced imo. If either the front was thicker, less V shaped toward the front, or the angles when changing angles towards the rear being less strong, it would be easier for people to adapt.
> 
> (booya actual constructive criticism instead of mindless bashing)


Actually, I like the V shape. Shapes with like the one the mx 310 try to eat your skin. No such problem with the g302/303.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Just got it in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shape is nice, i hold the mouse nice and vertical.
> Turning the wheel is a bit too light for me, when clicking it i sometimes accidentally turn it, i also find it too hard to click. The wheel feels solid though, no wobbling, creaking or difference in resistance when turning or anything like that. I think i can get used to it.
> The forward side button is too hard to reach with my hands (my hands are about 20 cm). It's also hard to press because it somehow doesn't feel like a button, it's just too narrow.
> The mousefeet make a lot of noise on the hard mousemat, hope this changes after some use. These companies should come up with some kind of standard mousefeet already.
> The light is just fun to look at, the colors are a far more saturated than on the Logitech website.
> Liftoff height is less than 1 mm on G440 mousemat.
> The braided cable is flexible for a braided cable and feels strangly velvety. It comes without any kinks in it.


... so it's like a G302? Now what about the cable? I don't understand in your sentence if it's flexible or not (flexible for a braided cable?). Do you have a g302 for comparison?


----------



## CorruptBE

Played a game with it...

Going to have to finetune first. 800 dpi on this isn't exactly the same as on 800 dpi on my homebrew Zowie FK2. FK2 Feels faster (traveled distance).


----------



## paers

Did those extra feet make the mouse any more stable on soft cloth pads?


----------



## pinobot

If i compare the cable with a Sensei RAW than the cable is a little bit thinner, 3.9mm vs 3,6mm (difficult to measure exacly).
Even though the cables look the same the Logitech feels softer and springs back more to it's original shape. It's not more flexible but it stays neater. The Sensei had a lot of kinks in it to begin with that i never got out and it was always a tangled mess on the table. The Logitech's cable makes round curves and follows the mouse nicely.
The Sensei cable i eventually replaced, i don't feel like replacing this cable.
It's a matter of preference of course.


----------



## Sencha

Managed to resist taking mine from delivery guy today! Just







. yukino good luck getting yours today my friend.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Managed to resist taking mine from delivery guy today! Just
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . yukino good luck getting yours today my friend.


wow!









thank you mate =) just got it, it's awesome! I'll try it out later.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Just got it in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shape is nice, i hold the mouse nice and vertical.
> Turning the wheel is a bit too light for me, when clicking it i sometimes accidentally turn it, i also find it too hard to click. The wheel feels solid though, no wobbling, creaking or difference in resistance when turning or anything like that. I think i can get used to it.
> The forward side button is too hard to reach with my hands (my hands are about 20 cm). It's also hard to press because it somehow doesn't feel like a button, it's just too narrow.
> The mousefeet make a lot of noise on the hard mousemat, hope this changes after some use. These companies should come up with some kind of standard mousefeet already.
> The light is just fun to look at, the colors are a far more saturated than on the Logitech website.
> Liftoff height is less than 1 mm on G440 mousemat.
> The braided cable is flexible for a braided cable and feels strangly velvety. It comes without any kinks in it.


That scratching that's causing the noise... try to find out if that's caused by those two thin "<" and ">" strips that are in the middle around the sensor. If you think those two strips are causing it, you could rip those off (at least that's how it is on the G302 and G402).


----------



## yukino

I just played some DM.. it's amazing!

So comfortable for my small hand with the fingertip grip. Haters pls.. I'll sell the G502.


----------



## donutvampire

Are you guys that are receiving this so early located outside of North America?


----------



## yukino

Ye we are from Europe







Germany, Netherlands, Belgium.. and so on.


----------



## donutvampire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Ye we are from Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany, Netherlands, Belgium.. and so on.


The earliest I can get the mouse is March 17th


----------



## CorruptBE

Performance is a step up from FK1, both buttons and sensor imo.

Shape: Time will tell but I do think Logitech would do well to listen to 1 big piece of advice:

"Smooth your curves"

Logitech has a history of makes alot of "strong" shapes with tight indentations, sharp edges, etc. If you want more people to like your shapes, smooth the curves and angles out a bit more. The shape isn't bad but it would be an instant swap from the FK1 if the curves on the butt and side were more gentle, smoother and less pronounced. Now I will be contemplating for a week to see if I can get used to it.


----------



## yukino

We are so lucky <3


----------



## CorruptBE

Well actually the argument of the others holds somewhat true. If this was a G100'ish shape this would've been a nobrainer for me, instant main mouse and I would've instantly ordered a spare one. Now I'm going to see if I can get used to the shape.


----------



## Aventadoor

It seems like a mice that would fit good with bigger hands is that true? Atleast long fingers?
I see many who grip the mice like not in the curve with rubberized grip or whatever it is


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> It seems like a mice that would fit good with bigger hands is that true? Atleast long fingers?
> I see many who grip the mice like not in the curve with rubberized grip or whatever it is


Don't know about that, 17cm from palm to middle finger and it fits rly good.

And yeah I'm pretty sure that most of the ppl just grippin it wrong.


----------



## Nunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Don't know about that, 17cm from palm to middle finger and it fits rly good.
> 
> And yeah I'm pretty sure that most of the ppl just grippin it wrong.


I was looking forward to replace my dead DA 3.5 with this one.

I too have a 17cm hand, are you able to palm it? I'm only asking this because I liked the shape of the DA, but I think I could adapt to another type of grip.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> It seems like a mice that would fit good with bigger hands is that true? Atleast long fingers?
> I see many who grip the mice like not in the curve with rubberized grip or whatever it is


What are big hands for you? The g302 is fine for me and I have ~20cm from start of the palm to middle finger, and thumb is ~7 cm in length by itself. My thumb ends being in line with the upper side button with my grip.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> I was looking forward to replace my dead DA 3.5 with this one.
> 
> I too have a 17cm hand, are you able to palm it? I'm only asking this because I liked the shape of the DA, but I think I could adapt to another type of grip.


I'm not a palmgrip user, but yeah it would work..







for my hands at least.


----------



## Nunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I'm not a palmgrip user, but yeah it would work..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for my hands at least.


Nice.

Being an avid Dota 2 player, mostly, should I save some money and stay with the G302 or this one is worth the shot?

Bear in mind that I can buy both without the VAT, saving 23% from the MSRP.


----------



## CorruptBE

On a technical level this mouse is just mousepr0n though...

Just did another match.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Performance is a step up from FK1, both buttons and sensor imo.
> 
> Shape: Time will tell but I do think Logitech would do well to listen to 1 big piece of advice:
> 
> "Smooth your curves"
> 
> Logitech has a history of makes alot of "strong" shapes with tight indentations, sharp edges, etc. If you want more people to like your shapes, smooth the curves and angles out a bit more. The shape isn't bad but it would be an instant swap from the FK1 if the curves on the butt and side were more gentle, smoother and less pronounced. Now I will be contemplating for a week to see if I can get used to it.


Good post and well said. It seems a lot of the amazon reviews mention the sharp edges. I really like the idea of this shape but don't understand why they didn't just smooth them off a little....I guess it looks less like a spaceship then


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> What are big hands for you? The g302 is fine for me and I have ~20cm from start of the palm to middle finger, and thumb is ~7 cm in length by itself. My thumb ends being in line with the upper side button with my grip.


My hand is around 20.5-21cm, also around 7cm thumb, I consider that big.
If you need L-XXL hands u have big hands


----------



## detto87

Mine arrived today. Will get to it asap and test the hell out of it.

Will do some tests on Artisan Raiden first, in hopes that it will track flawlessly on it.
Would be the first optical sensor capable in doing that.

Coming from WMO,G100S,FK1,Rival, ... excited to try this new shape+buttons+sensor.


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Played a game with it...
> 
> Going to have to finetune first. 800 dpi on this isn't exactly the same as on 800 dpi on my homebrew Zowie FK2. FK2 Feels faster (traveled distance).


With a FK1 I measured more than 900 dpi. So I'm not surprised.


----------



## resis

When will those angled shapes and sharp edges finally go away?

...


----------



## vinzbe

Flare trousers came back into fashion, so there is hope for curvy shapes.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Performance is a step up from FK1, both buttons and sensor imo.
> 
> Shape: Time will tell but I do think Logitech would do well to listen to 1 big piece of advice:
> 
> "Smooth your curves"
> 
> Logitech has a history of makes alot of "strong" shapes with tight indentations, sharp edges, etc. If you want more people to like your shapes, smooth the curves and angles out a bit more. The shape isn't bad but it would be an instant swap from the FK1 if the curves on the butt and side were more gentle, smoother and less pronounced. Now I will be contemplating for a week to see if I can get used to it.




Best mouse shape for sure.


----------



## aleexkrysel

ヽ(◕‿◕✿)ﾉ "Real mice have curves!" ヽ(◕‿◕✿)ﾉ

But in all seriousness, let us know if you enjoy the shape after a week. The 303 is one of the mice I'm considering buying but I'm kinda put off by the shape.


----------



## Nunex

I just need to know two things:

If it is worth to buy it to play Dota2, knowing that I can buy any Logitech mouse 23% cheaper;

If it's possible to palm grip it, knowing that I have a 17 cm hand.


----------



## donutvampire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> I just need to know two things:
> 
> If it is worth to buy it to play Dota2, knowing that I can buy any Logitech mouse 23% cheaper;
> 
> If it's possible to palm grip it, knowing that I have a 17 cm hand.


Get the 302 for dota, and yes u can palm grip


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> I just need to know two things:
> 
> If it is worth to buy it to play Dota2, knowing that I can buy any Logitech mouse 23% cheaper;
> 
> If it's possible to palm grip it, knowing that I have a 17 cm hand.


Using G303 also have 17cm







fingertip grip but already lovin it.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Quite the minority and self-centered opinion there.


I'm in the majority though, are you clueless?


----------



## Ricey20

G502 is also the best selling gaming mouse (and highest reviewed) at retail shops like best buy. Majority in a forum? Possibly. For the general public and market for these mice? Definitely not.

Anyway back on topic, I stopped using my G302 because of the wobble so I'm glad they fixed that. The shape was surprisingly comfortable for my hybrid claw/finger/palm grip so preordered the G303. Shape definitely isn't for everyone but you really need to try it and use it for a bit to see if you can get used to it.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> G502 is also the best selling gaming mouse (and highest reviewed) at retail shops like best buy. Majority in the forum, possibly. For the general public and market for these mice? Definitely not.
> .


And so was MX518, and G400. Yet they had the same shape they had for years and years, weird huh








So you don't need to alter the shape and tripple the price to sell mice. It's more that people had no choice since both of them are gone









The G400 rev1-2 cost 25 euro and was the most sold mouse by far.
After that they started adding stupid stuff and made the G400s a worse version and more then doubled the price, after that came the Spaceship G502 monster heavy tank with a new stupid design and trippled the price over G400.

Logitech is more about being greedy and increasing their prices a ton, for that they feel they need to make new designs.
The g400s got massive flack for the super increase in price when they added, well nothing new at all. Except more smoothing that is.

Then they needed to do something else for their next (G502) to justify the stupid high price of it







And tadaa, the deathstar was built.

I loved logitech for years but they are going an even worse route then Razer went, increasing prices a ton and trying to feel a need to make new useless stuff.

Just my opinion, used to love Logitech for simple, well build and good mice.
Right now that is thrown down the dumpster.
Their support have gone downhill over the last few years as well.


----------



## woll3

Dont get me wrong, i really like the G100s shape and weight, but as the games changed over the years so have the customers as well, people need to accept the fact that the things we would prefer isnt the thing the average joe wants, and as i said about Zowie, to make that "1% Gear" you actually need money to do some R&D, i had a conversation with CPate yesterday as well and apparently there were even people who complained that G402 and G502 are actually too light in their opinion.

As for Logitech, new shapes should have imo happened a few years ago, and i guess it takes a while to see what works and what not, for now people have to deal with the G303, but who knows, maybe soemthing nice comes in the future.









The tl;dr version is that we should be thankful for anything in the right direction.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Then they needed to do something else for their next (G502) to justify the stupid high price of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And tadaa, the deathstar was built.


Average customer actually prefers Deathstars and overengineered stuff.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

If we've learned anything from this thread it's that we really need to remember to write Amazon reviews ASAP for all the mice we test, so that people don't only see fluff reviews from casuals who don't know how to properly evaluate a mouse. That should help put pressure on manufacturers to actually create good mice.

Also, I see a lot of praise for the g100s shape/size but my friend has medium sized hands and says it's too thin for palm grip, so it cramps his hand.
I definitely agree it needs 2 side buttons though (lack of such is why I've never tried it).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> I was looking forward to replace my dead DA 3.5 with this one.
> 
> I too have a 17cm hand, are you able to palm it? I'm only asking this because I liked the shape of the DA, but I think I could adapt to another type of grip.


If you like the DA 3.5g shape then buy the 4g. It's better in every way. Lighter, better build quality, and has one of the best sensors I've used.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Considering the best selling mice on amazon logitech's G700s G600 G602 and G502 i'd say you are the minority considering the general public.


The general public are not competitive gamers. And even a significant amount of competitive gamers are clueless when it comes to evaluating gaming mice.

So the fact that the general public is buying wireless, 20 button mice, and marketing gimmicks, isn't something to base anything off of.

If logitech is showing they'd rather market ridiculous mice to those kinds of people, there really should be much much less support for logitech than there is on this forum.


----------



## Ricey20

I don't believe they had "no choice". Both amazon and retail shops have many choices in the selection of gaming mice. If they truly had no choice and then bought one and ended up hating it because it's just truly and obviously (according to the forum) flawed, they would return it and maybe write a bad review on it. Still being a best seller and highly reviewed at many places means that's not the case.

I personally think they tried doing something new to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market where most shells and shapes were beginning to converge or become too similar. Plus the huge influx in Chinese companies releasing mice with the same molds probably added to that. Speculation of course, just like everything else regarding the change in shape.

I do agree that it would probably still be a best seller if they stuck with tried and true shapes but right now the market seems to love them so I don't see it changing soon. If this continues though I wouldn't be surprised to see other companies, like Razer, start releasing star ship looking mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If we've learned anything from this thread it's that we really need to remember to write Amazon reviews ASAP for all the mice we test, so that people don't only see fluff reviews from casuals who don't know how to properly evaluate a mouse. That should help put pressure on manufacturers to actually create good mice.
> 
> Also, I see a lot of praise for the g100s shape/size but my friend has medium sized hands and says it's too thin for palm grip, so it cramps his hand.
> I definitely agree it needs 2 side buttons though (lack of such is why I've never tried it).
> If you like the DA 3.5g shape then buy the 4g. It's better in every way. Lighter, better build quality, and has one of the best sensors I've used.
> The general public are not competitive gamers. And even a significant amount of competitive gamers are clueless when it comes to evaluating gaming mice.


It's a good idea and probably a start but I wonder what kind of impact it would really have. We're like 1% of the general market for these things.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If logitech is showing they'd rather market ridiculous mice to those kinds of people, there really should be much much less support for logitech than there is on this forum.


True, but then they go and make stuff like the 3366 so we're not sure which people they're aiming for lol.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> It's a good idea and probably a start but I wonder what kind of impact it would really have. We're like 1% of the general market for these things.


But there are plenty of reviewers on this site. If we get there first and leave solid reviews before the fluff reviews overwhelm it would certainly make a difference.

That can be difficult though, as many manufacturers seem to get a number of positive fluff reviews before the mouse is even available to most people.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> MUCH MAJORITY
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-PC-Gaming-Mice/zgbs/electronics/402052011


ya man g700s and g600 are the best mice of all time, great logic buddy


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> No, you're the mouth sewage minority you clueless dreg.


Nah bud im in the majority, most people would prefer a normal shape to this spaceship.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> MUCH MAJORITY
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-PC-Gaming-Mice/zgbs/electronics/402052011
> 
> 
> 
> ya man g700s and g600 are the best mice of all time, great logic buddy
Click to expand...

And you explain this discrepancy because people never buy things from amazon or brick and mortar shops which you know are dominated by logitech and razer in the US. A majority is just a majority they don't change anything by being the majority.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> And you explain this discrepancy because people never buy things from amazon or brick and mortar shops which you know are dominated by logitech and razer in the US. A majority is just a majority they don't change anything by being the majority.


im talking about on this forum, not about the clueless people that just buy whatever new mouse logitech and razer make.


----------



## Pa12a

Easy there boys, getting heated up in here, I see.

I mean honestly, if I was going to choose between a G303 and a G100S and I didn't like the G303 shape, I'll just get the G100S anyway. Shape > sensor in priority. I wouldn't mind acceleration, smoothing or maybe even prediction if I would get a mouse shape specially designed for me and me only. I liked playing with my G5 and MX518 anyway back in the day even though I wished the sensor would be the same as my WMO's.

I'm just saying, maybe they go and release another G100 line mouse. I mean the 3988 got implemented in a bunch of other mice before, I wouldn't be surprised if the same would happen with the 3366.

Also no idea why the G302 would be considered a spaceship if it's just the diamond shape. It's actually a great claw grip mouse for my hands (almost 18cm). The only real complaint I've got about one of the newer Logitech mice is the G502's shape, I always end up clawing it because palm is so uncomfortable for me personally, not that I mind but it just bothers a little bit because I tried to go for palm grip mice and it didn't end up doing the job, although still doing a good job nonetheless.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> I personally think they tried doing something new to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market where most shells and shapes were beginning to converge or become too similar. Plus the huge influx in Chinese companies releasing mice with the same molds probably added to that. Speculation of course, just like everything else regarding the change in shape.
> 
> I do agree that it would probably still be a best seller if they stuck with tried and true shapes but right now the market seems to love them so I don't see it changing soon. If this continues though I wouldn't be surprised to see other companies, like Razer, start releasing star ship looking mice.


From what I remember hearing a long time ago, a marketing person from Logitech (I assume) explained their new business philosophy is to compete with other well known gaming companies by moving towards spaceship designs (I refer to them as). This should break Logitech out of the stagnation they were in and increase sales / market share of gaming products. They needed to separate themselves by going with flashy stuff. Throw some big numbers in with their new designs to capture more people at the same time: the fastest tracking gaming mouse utilizing an accelerometer and gyro, the highest CPI "optical" sensor ever created.

The current shapes you see is their new "design language." It's here to stay until the consumers say otherwise. If you continue to buy it, they will continue to make it.

You might be able to find the marketing stuff online if they didn't delete it again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> I'm just saying, maybe they go and release another G100 line mouse. I mean the 3988 got implemented in a bunch of other mice before, I wouldn't be surprised if the same would happen with the 3366.


I think the G302 is supposed to kill off the G100S.


----------



## yukino

Logitech G5, Razer Naga Molten, Razer Deathadder CLG 2013, Feenix Nascita, Logitech G402, Logitech G502 (last one)

The G303 is already my favorite lol.. finally found my love <3


----------



## mcg75

Reminder.

Debating is to be done respectfully here at OCN.

That means no insults or name calling when someone disagrees with you.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Logitech G5, Razer Naga Molten, Razer Deathadder CLG 2013, Feenix Nascita, Logitech G402, Logitech G502 (last one)
> 
> The G303 is already my favorite lol.. finally found my love <3


so happy to see that the shape is good for you! It should be a great mouse! People that don't like it, wish it was comfortable for them so they could use it!


----------



## CorruptBE

With 3366.

Logitech do it, do it nawww (insert arnold accent)!

(maybe make front a tad wider compared to middle section







)

If they want bling bling they can add some pulsating leds at the front left/right for RGB lightening for all I care. I ain't placing my fingers there


----------



## Melan

Sorry, not a spaceship.


----------



## Nunex

Is the 302/303 shape really bad or it's just circlejerking now?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With 3366.
> 
> Logitech do it, do it nawww (insert arnold accent)!
> 
> (maybe make front a tad wider compared to middle section
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> If they want bling bling they can add some pulsating leds at the front left/right for RGB lightening for all I care. I ain't placing my fingers there


Looks similar to the FK1 which causes more cramping than the same width'd Aurora. Straight sides are the way to go.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> Is the 302/303 shape really bad or it's just circlejerking now?


People are just a tad mad I think because if this was in a G100'ish shape half this forum would've been satisfied, 3366 sensor in a shape that could've been enjoyed by many as compared to now.


----------



## Atavax

for many its so close to perfection that it hurts more that the shape isn't quite right, then most mice released that are nowhere near what they want.


----------



## Nunex

I guess the silent majority of the people who actually like the 302/303 shape would take that part and be angry instead.

It's hard to have consent when the terms of discussion are purely subjective.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> for many its so close to perfection that it hurts more that the shape isn't quite right, then most mice released that are nowhere near what they want.


Yep.

It's basically people facepalming with a cringe face rather then being angry more likely








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> It's hard to have consent when the terms of discussion are purely subjective.


My post about making curves more subtle isn't entirely subjective imo.

Making them more subtle can lead to less people disliking a certain shape. Take the MX518 for instance, how many hated the lip on the right? Did they hate the entire mouse? Did they play bad with it (most likely not but they experienced pain eventually after X playtime in that area)?

Making shapes more subtle could increase the general population that can actually USE your products on a long term basis.

EDIT:

An example http://www.overclock.net/t/1545837/the-g502-hurts-my-hand-a-lot-when-i-play-i-have-short-wide-hands-and-use-a-palm-grip-any-suggestions-on-alternate-mice

See, the problem with Logitech their shapes has always been "Nope, it hurts me hand" or "It's a perfect fit". Most often there's no "in between". Take a Deathadder for instance, it's far from perfect for me, but even I can wield that thing because every curve is smooth, it doesn't kill my hand after an hour of usage.

The MX300/G100/G3/G100S/... range has always been the "outsider" in this aspect. Simplistic in its design. You don't expect much from it's design, it's simple, it's a mouse, but it works, for many many people.


----------



## Necroblob

I'm reserving judgement until my G303 arrives tomorrow. My thoughts on the G302 may have been influenced by the stiff cable and wobble (both of which are fixed in the G303) as much as the shape so it would be unfair for me to cast judgement at this stage.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> Is the 302/303 shape really bad or it's just circlejerking now?


Like all shapes it varies per person. Its just a case of posters here trying to enforce their preferences onto everyone else.

Hence the butthurt and attempts to slander the mouse.


----------



## a_ak57

Apparently nobody is allowed to criticize something they don't like and we should only post if it's salivation over whatever a company chooses to do.







Your incessant need to be indignant about everything is really weird, man. Are you the guy who designed the shape or something?


----------



## Brightmist

It's not posters here enforcing preference at all, it's just common sense.

If it was either kinzu shape with side buttons or mx300 with side-buttons, it would've been way better and way more praised.

This weird shape probably won't be too friendly for palm grippers but I'm guessing it'll fit my hand like a glove


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Reminder.
> 
> Debating is to be done respectfully here at OCN.
> 
> That means no insults or name calling when someone disagrees with you.


Tell r0ach that one...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Apparently nobody is allowed to criticize something they don't like and we should only post if it's salivation over whatever a company chooses to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your incessant need to be indignant about everything is really weird, man. Are you the guy who designed the shape or something?


^


----------



## springrolls

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Like all shapes it varies per person. Its just a case of posters here trying to enforce their preferences onto everyone else.
> 
> Hence the butthurt and attempts to slander the mouse.


Lol? apparently nobody else's opinion is valid but your own.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Apparently nobody is allowed to criticize something they don't like and we should only post if it's salivation over whatever a company chooses to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your incessant need to be indignant about everything is really weird, man. Are you the guy who designed the shape or something?


Dismissal of the mouse goes beyond the shape. That is the problem.

Not your shape? Good for you.

****ty mouse overall? Not in the least.

And it's that line of thinking that spread misinformation on whether or not a mouse is good.


----------



## CorruptBE

Must get used to this shape...

... accuracy improving... bursting improving... (yes I'm looking at you Zowie button latency)

Logitech y u do this to me?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Must get used to this shape...
> 
> ... accuracy improving... bursting improving... (yes I'm looking at you Zowie button latency)
> 
> Logitech y u do this to me?


If the shape doesn't work the first few minutes it doesn't work ever. That's why I changed the shape and size of my FK with a bunch of tape.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2385697/width/350/height/700
> 
> With 3366.
> 
> Logitech do it, do it nawww (insert arnold accent)!
> 
> (maybe make front a tad wider compared to middle section
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> If they want bling bling they can add some pulsating leds at the front left/right for RGB lightening for all I care. I ain't placing my fingers there


Wide backend and making the mouse longer. Making the mouse less suitable for fingertip grip users like myself.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Wide backend and making the mouse longer. Making the mouse less suitable for fingertip grip users like myself.


Length, etc is up for discussion









Anyhow what bothers me most isn't the sides (they actually work somehow), but the rear:



The edges (circle) there end up in between the bones of 2 fingers (inside of my hand, palm) and apply pressure. Smooth out that butt and I'm GO tbh.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Wide backend and making the mouse longer. Making the mouse less suitable for fingertip grip users like myself.


Do you know a different design could add length to the front of the mouse instead of the rear? If a mouse has a long rear end it would cause you to rest your hand on the mouse entirely or to move it further back. I think most people have similar palm sizes, but their length of fingers can be different. A longer front end is probably better than a longer rear end.

The G302/3 isn't that great for a finger tip mouse. It could be a lot better. The size and shape is already pushing the limits of a finger tip mouse.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Must get used to this shape...
> 
> ... accuracy improving... bursting improving... (yes I'm looking at you Zowie button latency)
> 
> Logitech y u do this to me?


Yeah, I went through that. After a few days of only using the G303 make sure you plug in a normal shaped mouse to compare. The difference was scary to me. I agree with Popups, I believe that there is no getting used to a shape. You immediately like it or you don't. "Giving it time" is code for moving away from your preferred grip.

Has anyone had experience with both the G302 cable and the G303 cable? How much better is the G303 cable when it comes to flexibility? (not looking for a sponsored opinion)


----------



## Atavax

i don't know, i think either you're up for change or you're satisfied with your current performance. If you're at the point where you just want to be playing like you are, then you just buy like 5 of your current mouse and you don't change anything. If you're up for change and trying new things, that should extend to the grip, in which case sometimes it does take some time to get used to.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Length, etc is up for discussion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow what bothers me most isn't the sides (they actually work somehow), but the rear:
> 
> 
> 
> The edges (circle) there end up in between the bones of 2 fingers (inside of my hand, palm) and apply pressure. Smooth out that butt and I'm GO tbh.


same for me :/


----------



## mrvirtualboy

For me, I usually really love a shape when I first try it, but as I start to use it I find all these little flaws with it that bother me. The G302's sides have a lot of potential to be nice with some tweaks here and there. I just wish the butt was a little wider and the mouse itself was slightly longer.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If the shape doesn't work the first few minutes it doesn't work ever. That's why I changed the shape and size of my FK with a bunch of tape.


I have to disagree with this.
Grip will instinctively change itself during gameplay. A sensitivity adjustment to top it off would net you the same or better performance depending how well you adapt.


----------



## resis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 
> 
> With 3366.
> 
> Logitech do it, do it nawww (insert arnold accent)!
> 
> (maybe make front a tad wider compared to middle section
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> If they want bling bling they can add some pulsating leds at the front left/right for RGB lightening for all I care. I ain't placing my fingers there


I'd tap that! I mean I'd get that.

An universally comfortable shape is an universally comfortable shape. Over twenty years of office mice have proven that. These new angled and cut off gaming mice shapes are just for show off. They work, otherwise they'd not be attested for sale, but they're not the best that can be and would be for the vast majority of users.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Wide backend and making the mouse longer. Making the mouse less suitable for fingertip grip users like myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know a different design could add length to the front of the mouse instead of the rear? If a mouse has a long rear end it would cause you to rest your hand on the mouse entirely or to move it further back. I think most people have similar palm sizes, but their length of fingers can be different. A longer front end is probably better than a longer rear end.
> 
> The G302/3 isn't that great for a finger tip mouse. It could be a lot better. The size and shape is already pushing the limits of a finger tip mouse.
Click to expand...

It's the closest thing i've found to be extremely comfortable outside of the G9/G9x shape. Many mice are made for palm and claw users few mice are made for fingertip users often those mice just are the same palm/claw mice just smaller.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *resis*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2385697/width/350/height/700
> 
> With 3366.
> 
> Logitech do it, do it nawww (insert arnold accent)!
> 
> (maybe make front a tad wider compared to middle section
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> If they want bling bling they can add some pulsating leds at the front left/right for RGB lightening for all I care. I ain't placing my fingers there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd tap that! I mean I'd get that.
> 
> An universally comfortable shape is an universally comfortable shape. Over twenty years of office mice have proven that. These new angled and cut off gaming mice shapes are just for show off. They work, otherwise they'd not be attested for sale, but they're not the best that can be and would be for the vast majority of users.
Click to expand...

Angled mice are for the office that tilt your hand position instead of ambidextrous design is done to trick to user out of applying pressure on their wrist and developing CTS.If you're using anything but trackballs for mice in an office you must have generous amounts of desk space. Trackballs are still king for me in an office environment.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> I'd imagine new shapes are just slow to design, hoping these won't reign as long as some of the old ones


The G402 shape is actually a huge improvement over G400 shape to me, but r0ach skywalker isn't that fond of G302 shape.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> i had a conversation with CPate yesterday as well and apparently there were even people who complained that G402 and G502 are actually too light in their opinion.


And some people also prefer purple cars with 30 inch rims (listening to the commentary is a must, I feel Logitech should use this guy for all their commercials):


----------



## semantics

People do like 30 inch rims haven't you seen recent concept cars sporting rims that will never make it into production.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It's the closest thing i've found to be extremely comfortable outside of the G9/G9x shape. Many mice are made for palm and claw users few mice are made for fingertip users often those mice just are the same palm/claw mice just smaller.


How about the CM Spawn design?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *springrolls*
> 
> Lol? apparently nobody else's opinion is valid but your own.


By suggesting people don't disqualify a mouse from being good because it's not their preferred shape?

On the technical side, the mouse is totally sound. The only iffy part is the shape, which I even myself am not fond of.

And in spite of me not liking the shape I'm not saying the mouse sucks or is useless. It's a good mouse. The hope just isn't for everyone.

As opposed to ****ty logic here where if the mouse shape isn't for you it automatically sucks and shouldn't be for anyone else.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> As opposed to ****ty logic here where if the mouse shape isn't for you it automatically sucks and shouldn't be for anyone else.


Actually, this is is not entirely wrong. But to prevent people from being butthurt, I will probably not elaborate. Just sayin'.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> By suggesting people don't disqualify a mouse from being good because it's not their preferred shape?.


One of the main draws of ambidextrous mice is the flexibility you have in positioning of your fingers. If you take that away using "heat maps" and give people something that forces your hand into a particular shape, it also increases fatigue because the hand doesn't do well being frozen into one position over a long period of time unless it's closer to a default, relaxed position of the hand, which something like a G402 is much closer to.

Hopefully they figure out this heatmaps idea is a total bust unless maybe you use it to try and model the default, relaxed positoin of the hand on a larger mouse, but then again, coming from a 3d or CAD perspective, I would just use clay or something to create a physical model of that amongst several people then take the average of what's acceptable.


----------



## bigjw

does the software for g303 have an angle snapping option?


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Do you know a different design could add length to the front of the mouse instead of the rear? If a mouse has a long rear end it would cause you to rest your hand on the mouse entirely or to move it further back. I think most people have similar palm sizes, but their length of fingers can be different. A longer front end is probably better than a longer rear end.
> 
> The G302/3 isn't that great for a finger tip mouse. It could be a lot better. The size and shape is already pushing the limits of a finger tip mouse.


The only uncomfortable aspect of the G302 to me were the sharp corners on the side. The mouse would be perfect for fingertip if the protruding parts of the sides were rounded out and followed the shape of the top shell instead.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigjw*
> 
> does the software for g303 have an angle snapping option?


Yes
Only on/off.


----------



## yukino

Easy, 0 problems with it ofc it's awful with the wrong grip.

Look at my thumb for example.. it's half on the button, more stability for me and easy fingertippin.

EDIT:


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Easy, 0 problems with it ofc it's aweful with the wrong grip.


Unfortunately one can't simply choose what kind of hands he or she has and what feels comfortable. Glad it works so well for you, though, hope you feel the same after months of use.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> one can't simply choose what kind of hands he or she has and what feels comfortable. .












He's got his grip right for the G303 though


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> Unfortunately one can't simply choose what kind of hands he or she has and what feels comfortable. Glad it works so well for you, though, hope you feel the same after months of use.


Yo, true that.. w/e hopefully mah pictures are useful for some1.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's got his grip right for the G303 though


Did you teach me senpai?


----------



## Ricey20

you have practically the same grip as me yukino lol


----------



## Nunex

Hey yukino, can you please post a picture palm gripping it?


----------



## detto87

My first impressions after some matches in CS:GO:

*Shape*
I was afraid to grip/grab it and almost thought "eh, maybe I'll instantly throw it in the package again and won't really test it any further, because if the shape is ugly, there's no way I'd continue using it". To my surprise though, I can grab it comfortably, easily. My hand is normal sized (19cm from wrist to middle finger). I can claw grip the G303 very good. No issues whatsoever with any edges or the shape in general. I'm really relieved it works out for me.

*Cable*
Braided and a bit thick. The braid is no problem for me and my pad. But I have to take care of how the cable is laying on the desk so it won't hinder my movements once it gets flinged around after quick swipes. But overall a sturdy good looking cable that seems to be of no hinderance to me.

*Feet*
No problems here. The G100S feet in the middle were horrible on some pads, but those on the G303 seem made of teflon instead of sticky plastic. Good glide overall. One of the few mice I don't see me changing or stacking feet.

*Mousewheel*
Didn't read much about that before but have to say it's the best wheel I used in a long time. It has the same rubbery coating like the one on the G402 or G100S, but the steps are very well pronounced, definitely more than on the G100S. Combine that tactility with a low resistance and you get a wheel that is easy to scroll but also offers very good tactility. Feels great while browsing websites and using in game.

*Buttons*
Light activation, good rebounce, easy to spam fire or tap. Like em.

*Sensor*
High PCS, low LOD, no processing whatsoever, tracks even on Artisan Raiden flawlessly (will update this post if that doesn't hold true anymore). I cannot ask for more. It's perfect in my eyes.

So there you go.
All I can say is I'm real glad I tried the shape and didn't let all those hate posts irritate me.
If you can like the shape and have no problems with it, THIS is the best mouse to date IMHO.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> you have practically the same grip as me yukino lol


Yey







do you like it? It's rly comfortable for me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> Hey yukino, can you please post a picture palm gripping it?


Could do that later when I'm home


----------



## munchzilla

I'll be trying this out next week I think.

#hype


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigjw*
> 
> does the software for g303 have an angle snapping option?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Yes
> Only on/off.


Where or how to get that sofware?
I just installed the latest LGS from the G303 suppor site but the installed LGS doesn't recognize the mouse.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Where or how to get that sofware?
> I just installed the latest LGS from the G303 suppor site but the installed LGS doesn't recognize the mouse.


I got mine from the clicking ? > Check for Updates in LGS. I'm using the English version, don't know if other language versions are older since they would need localization. Can't get to the version number atm.

Did you plug in the mouse before starting your computer and updating the logitech software ? In that case, replug it. Also be on the lookout for popups that pop under. On replugging I got a popup that said my firmware needed to be flashed, but it didn't come up in front of my LGS, but behind it.


----------



## pinobot

I got the Logitech Gaming Software here:

http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/11840


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Speaking of the Logitech software. Does it need to be running for that surface calibration to work? I noticed after I formatted and re-installed the software it doesn't save the mouse pad I calibrated.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My first impressions after some matches in CS:GO:
> 
> *Shape*
> I was afraid to grip/grab it and almost thought "eh, maybe I'll instantly throw it in the package again and won't really test it any further, because if the shape is ugly, there's no way I'd continue using it". To my surprise though, I can grab it comfortably, easily. My hand is normal sized (19cm from wrist to middle finger). I can claw grip the G303 very good. No issues whatsoever with any edges or the shape in general. I'm really relieved it works out for me.
> 
> *Cable*
> Braided and a bit thick. The braid is no problem for me and my pad. But I have to take care of how the cable is laying on the desk so it won't hinder my movements once it gets flinged around after quick swipes. But overall a sturdy good looking cable that seems to be of no hinderance to me.
> 
> *Feet*
> No problems here. The G100S feet in the middle were horrible on some pads, but those on the G303 seem made of teflon instead of sticky plastic. Good glide overall. One of the few mice I don't see me changing or stacking feet.
> 
> *Mousewheel*
> Didn't read much about that before but have to say it's the best wheel I used in a long time. It has the same rubbery coating like the one on the G402 or G100S, but the steps are very well pronounced, definitely more than on the G100S. Combine that tactility with a low resistance and you get a wheel that is easy to scroll but also offers very good tactility. Feels great while browsing websites and using in game.
> 
> *Buttons*
> Light activation, good rebounce, easy to spam fire or tap. Like em.
> 
> *Sensor*
> High PCS, low LOD, no processing whatsoever, tracks even on Artisan Raiden flawlessly (will update this post if that doesn't hold true anymore). I cannot ask for more. It's perfect in my eyes.
> 
> So there you go.
> All I can say is I'm real glad I tried the shape and didn't let all those hate posts irritate me.
> If you can like the shape and have no problems with it, THIS is the best mouse to date IMHO.


That sounds very promising. Thanks for your thoughts! I think I'll dive in once I can grab a cheaper one.


----------



## pinobot

There is no dedicated profile switching button on the mouse so when you want to use internal memory without the Logitech Gaming Software constantly running you have to sacrifice a button or create a G-shift button. Left klick and right click can't be modified with G-shift.


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> Speaking of the Logitech software. Does it need to be running for that surface calibration to work? I noticed after I formatted and re-installed the software it doesn't save the mouse pad I calibrated.


@CPate Can you answer this question please.


----------



## doomleika

What. G502 does not need lgs once calibrated why would one think g303 would


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> All I can say is I'm real glad I tried the shape and didn't let all those hate posts irritate me.


All that needs to be said.


----------



## TriviumKM

Patiently waiting for this mouse to start shipping to the States; hope it's comfortable enough to hold me over until cm releases a new spawn (best shaped fingertip mouse I've ever used thus far).


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> All that needs to be said.


Can I still whine or is it going to break your self-enforcing agreement?









About Spawn, after getting used to it I really liked the shape amongst other things. I tried other mice for a while and when I picked it up again it felt weird again. I don't want to make efforts to get used to shapes anymore.


----------



## Nunex

Mine arrives Monday,
I was going to buy a G302, but this one came out so I did the upgrade...

I hope it fits my small hand nicelly, although I adapt easily to new grips.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> I got mine from the clicking ? > Check for Updates in LGS. I'm using the English version, don't know if other language versions are older since they would need localization. Can't get to the version number atm.
> 
> Did you plug in the mouse before starting your computer and updating the logitech software ? In that case, replug it. Also be on the lookout for popups that pop under. On replugging I got a popup that said my firmware needed to be flashed, but it didn't come up in front of my LGS, but behind it.


Uninstalled LGS and removed every trace of it. Plugged in G303 and installed newest LGS fresh. LGS doesn't recognize it even when replugging it.

Guess I'll uninstall everything again, reboot, replug the mouse and THEN install newest LGS again.

If that doesn't work I'll try it from the U.S. website.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Patiently waiting for this mouse to start shipping to the States; hope it's comfortable enough to hold me over until cm releases a new spawn (best shaped fingertip mouse I've ever used thus far).


When does it start shipping? the 15th?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> All I can say is I'm real glad I tried the shape and didn't let all those hate posts irritate me.
> 
> 
> 
> All that needs to be said.
Click to expand...

Shape has always been 100% personal, ofc you don't listen to other people.
Most people actually said, try it out in a store before you buy because the shape is abit odd.
Even reviewers like Linustech said that when they reviewed it.

No one can know if a shape fits another person, quite obvious tbh









That said I think G302/3 is one of the mice that has been trashed the most due to it's shape.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My first impressions after some matches in CS:GO:
> 
> *Shape*
> I was afraid to grip/grab it and almost thought "eh, maybe I'll instantly throw it in the package again and won't really test it any further, because if the shape is ugly, there's no way I'd continue using it". To my surprise though, I can grab it comfortably, easily. My hand is normal sized (19cm from wrist to middle finger). I can claw grip the G303 very good. No issues whatsoever with any edges or the shape in general. I'm really relieved it works out for me.
> 
> *Cable*
> Braided and a bit thick. The braid is no problem for me and my pad. But I have to take care of how the cable is laying on the desk so it won't hinder my movements once it gets flinged around after quick swipes. But overall a sturdy good looking cable that seems to be of no hinderance to me.
> 
> *Feet*
> No problems here. The G100S feet in the middle were horrible on some pads, but those on the G303 seem made of teflon instead of sticky plastic. Good glide overall. One of the few mice I don't see me changing or stacking feet.
> 
> *Mousewheel*
> Didn't read much about that before but have to say it's the best wheel I used in a long time. It has the same rubbery coating like the one on the G402 or G100S, but the steps are very well pronounced, definitely more than on the G100S. Combine that tactility with a low resistance and you get a wheel that is easy to scroll but also offers very good tactility. Feels great while browsing websites and using in game.
> 
> *Buttons*
> Light activation, good rebounce, easy to spam fire or tap. Like em.
> 
> *Sensor*
> High PCS, low LOD, no processing whatsoever, tracks even on Artisan Raiden flawlessly (will update this post if that doesn't hold true anymore). I cannot ask for more. It's perfect in my eyes.
> 
> So there you go.
> All I can say is I'm real glad I tried the shape and didn't let all those hate posts irritate me.
> If you can like the shape and have no problems with it, THIS is the best mouse to date IMHO.


Good to see someone who bought the mouse say just the same as I did. Because, you know, I'm "sponsored" so my opinion doesn't count apparently.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> 
> 
> Easy, 0 problems with it ofc it's awful with the wrong grip.
> 
> Look at my thumb for example.. it's half on the button, more stability for me and easy fingertippin.
> 
> EDIT:


That's hilarious! As long as you barely touch the mouse you will LOVE it! I heard that many times since the release of the G302.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's hilarious! As long as you barely touch the mouse you will LOVE it! I heard that many times since the release of the G302.


Hater is back.. so tell me how I grip a mice with fingertip grip?

Putting my head on it for the most comfortable grip?


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> popups is in need of a ban
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: also c9 playing soon 4 out of there 5 players using the 303 so lets see how they do go c9




shroud <3


----------



## Nivity

I'm sorry, but do people really think that "this progamer uses this sponsored mouse so it's a beast?"

Then why don't you people play with lasermice like Sensei raw etc that people used alot and still use








What mouse sponsored players use don't really mean squat to be honest.

And deathadder would be a gosu mouse but it's beyond hated on OCN.


----------



## CorruptBE

Well if we exclude disliking the shape and just look at the peformance...

... it is a beast


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Well if we exclude disliking the shape and just look at the peformance...
> 
> ... it is a beast


That is for sure








Im just dreaming of a more straight ambi mouse from logitech with the same switches and sensor


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's hilarious! As long as you barely touch the mouse you will LOVE it! I heard that many times since the release of the G302.


C'mon man, I palm grip too but he just obviously uses fingertip grip. A lot of people hold their mice like that.

I have big hands and love my 502 so not really in the market for another mouse, but I will see if Best Buy gets one in that I can hold because unlike most people here, I realize you cannot judge a mouse shape without actually using it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Hater is back.. so tell me how I grip a mice with fingertip grip?
> 
> Putting my head on it for the most comfortable grip?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> popups is in need of a ban


Yeah, because I just point out the facts that you don't like to hear. Like how I said if you finger tip the mouse you will not have problems with the G302/3, but that doesn't mean the mouse has the greatest shape because you only use your finger tips. As a finger tip mouse the G302/3 could be better. It's obvious most people that say the shape is good are people not really touching the mouse to begin with; (to me) their opinion isn't as valid unless that mouse was designed 100% for a finger tip grip.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/1100_20#post_23261322
Quote:


> _It's like if someone sat on the very edge of a chair, then they give their opinion that it is a great chair. Someone else sits in the same chair, but sits fully supported by it, then they say it's the worse chair they ever sat in._


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> All I can say is I'm real glad I tried the shape and didn't let all those hate posts irritate me.


You shouldn't stop from doing something because someone said something. If you want to try it, try it. If your that gullible maybe you shouldn't be reading a forum or you could call for people to be banned from the forum.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> C'mon man, I palm grip too but he just obviously uses fingertip grip. A lot of people hold their mice like that.


I am just pointing out who likes it and who doesn't. Finger tip users like it and disagree about the other opinions. You guys are so sensitive.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> Yeah, because I just point out the facts that you don't like to hear. Like how I said if you finger tip the mouse you will not have problems with the G302/3, but that doesn't mean the mouse has the greatest shape because you only use your finger tips. As a finger tip mouse the G302/3 could be better. It's obvious most people that say the shape is good are people not really touching the mouse to begin with; (to me) their opinion isn't as valid unless that mouse was designed 100% for a finger tip grip.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/1100_20#post_23261322
> 
> You shouldn't stop from doing something because someone said something. If you want to try it, try it. If your that gullible maybe you shouldn't be reading a forum or you could call for people to be banned from the forum.
> I am just pointing out who likes it and who doesn't. Finger tip users like it and disagree about the other opinions. You guys are so sensitive.






We get it and we've got it the last hundred times you've posted. If you have such problems with the shape then bother CPate with your incessant posting rather than cluttering this thread. If you have reached the point that you are complaining about the sensitivity of others then perhaps it is because you are being an abrasive twit and should take a break. Seriously, go outside or play some video games. We know your opinions on the mouse so leave it be.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> No one can know if a shape fits another person, quite obvious tbh


Which is the main problem in most threads. Certain select posters enforce their shape for whatever reason. :shrug: "wat I hate dis shape, mouse sucks you shouldn't buy it!!"

I mean really, outside of the shape the G303 you can't really count the mouse out on anything. And to count the mouse out on something subjective per person is total nonsense.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Can I still whine or is it going to break your self-enforcing agreement?


If you hate the shape? Fine. I hate it too. We can complain together.

But because the shape doesn't fit me, doesn't make it a bad mouse.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's hilarious! As long as you barely touch the mouse you will LOVE it! I heard that many times since the release of the G302.


So now you're trying to be snarky about other user's grips?

Have you run out of fuel for your slander agenda?


----------



## fLaPzZ

Got mine today. I wasn't sure about the shape, but after half an hour I'm really liking it. The \_/ shape at the front makes it really easy to lift with my dry hands. There's also room for my pinky. On my FK1, my pinky would be floating in the air, but the G303 has a perfect spot for it to rest. I can claw properly which I couldn't on the FK1. Gonna try out some CS GO for a couple of hours now.

Also got the Zowie G-SR mouse mat today as well. The glide with the combo of G303 and G-SR is really nice. Might have to lower my sense







.


----------



## pinobot

Does the polling rate of the mouse also infuence the polling rate of the buttons?
Maybe a stupid question.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> So now you're trying to be snarky about other user's grips?
> 
> Have you run out of fuel for your slander agenda?


Quote:


> *slan-der:*
> 
> noun
> _the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation_


Quote:


> *Psychological Projection:*
> 
> _Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude._


He is has a finger tip style. That style works with the G302/3 over anything else. So people with that grip will think the shape of the G302/3 is great. That is "funny" (to me) in the sense that many shapes will be "great" if you finger tip grip them. Meaning the G302/3 could be another shape, like the CM Spawn, yet still satisfy that grip style. I have seen many posts that support that thought. For finger tip users they are lucky to have mice like the G303







.

In other words, stop being so sensitive and don't project your personality traits onto my statements.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> He is has a finger tip style. That style works with the G302/3 over anything else. So people with that grip will think the shape of the G302/3 is great. That is "funny" in the sense that many shapes will be great if you finger tip grip them. Meaning the G302/3 could be another shape, like the CM Spawn, yet still satisfy that grip style. I have seen many posts that support that thought. For finger tip users they are lucky to have mice like the G303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> In other words, stop being so sensitive and don't project your personality characteristics onto my statements.


Funny, I've seen finger tippers complain about the shape because they wanted to grip it more in the back where the edges are.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Funny, I've seen finger tippers complain about the shape because they wanted to grip it more in the back where the edges are.


More about size in that situation, it seems.

As I said, the G302/3 could be better for finger tip grip. It could be better for claw grip. It could be better for a palm grip. Simply, it could be better.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It's the closest thing i've found to be extremely comfortable outside of the G9/G9x shape. Many mice are made for palm and claw users few mice are made for fingertip users often those mice just are the same palm/claw mice just smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> How about the CM Spawn design?
Click to expand...

Not my fav mouse shape, the part that felt most natural to grip was too far forward for me to pivot like i could with the G9 which i could grip further back. Then the issue with using a fingertip grip on it was the button placement was shifted due to the wide pinky slot which was slightly awkward for awhile but i got used to it. I only used the CM spawn for like a month, i spend too much money on mice T_T. I really like the 303 shape personally and the sensor is actually good so i'll probably but 2 or 3 and use it as my main mouse for a few years. Which i did with the G9 choosing comfort over performance, mainly because i kept to playing BW, other RTS or kept to run and gun style shooters which shooting mid swipe was easier than being swipe perfect.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> He is has a finger tip style. That style works with the G302/3 over anything else. So people with that grip will think the shape of the G302/3 is great. That is "funny" in the sense that many shapes will be great if you finger tip grip them. Meaning the G302/3 could be another shape, like the CM Spawn, yet still satisfy that grip style. I have seen many posts that support that thought. For finger tip users they are lucky to have mice like the G303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> In other words, stop being so sensitive and don't project your personality characteristics onto my statements.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, I've seen finger tippers complain about the shape because they wanted to grip it more in the back where the edges are.
Click to expand...

That is where most finger tippers like to grip mice in general because it clears palm space allowing you to bring the mouse more into your hand when need be. It also allows you to pivot better because you're not in line with the sensor so when you pivot the mouse you move the cursor a considerable amount.


----------



## pran

My G303 snapped on the ground thrice in 60 minutes of playing CS. Anyone else experienced this problem? Playing on a Hayate.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> He is has a finger tip style. That style works with the G302/3 over anything else. So people with that grip will think the shape of the G302/3 is great. That is "funny" in the sense that many shapes will be great if you finger tip grip them. Meaning the G302/3 could be another shape, like the CM Spawn, yet still satisfy that grip style. I have seen many posts that support that thought. For finger tip users they are lucky to have mice like the G303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> In other words, stop being so sensitive and don't project your personality characteristics onto my statements.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, I've seen finger tippers complain about the shape because they wanted to grip it more in the back where the edges are.
Click to expand...

Yepp.
That is why I cannot use the mouse. I need to grip it further back where the curves are, which is impossible to to comfortable and with control.
With the forced grip forward on the G302 it's more of a fixed clawgrip. I have 0 control with pivot since I cannot move the mouse down into my palm because there is no room since I need to grip it so far up.

Even mice like KPM I can grip in the back because the curve on left side goes almost all the way back in the shell.


----------



## marsCS

They're finally in stock on Logitech's US site! Hopefully pre-orders will be shipped before the weekend.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> When does it start shipping? the 15th?


No clue, but i see they're in stock now on the US site so should be soon.


----------



## trUte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> My G303 snapped on the ground thrice in 60 minutes of playing CS. Anyone else experienced this problem? Playing on a Hayate.


It sounds like the same problem the g502 has. Use the factory default setting on the surface tuning to avoid the issue.


----------



## Aventadoor

C9 and their g303 lost against VP with their kinzu v3 and zowie mice!


----------



## CorruptBE

Getting somewhat used to the shape. Might just work out. But tbh, if it wasn't for its lovely performance (both clicks and sensor are amazing), I wouldn't even bother trying to get used to it.

Once I get more warmed up (after about an hour of play), I can get away with a more "loose" grip so the back isn't pressing into my hand as much anymore. Hopefully this positive evolution continues... although if the people over at Logitech ever get it into their head to release a more "normal" shaped ambi mouse with this sensor and these clicks... plz do, I'll order a stash.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> C9 and their g303 lost against VP with their kinzu v3 and zowie mice!


And this is relevant how exactly?








Their mice look cheesy, but the loss is CATastrophic


----------



## JustinSane

Has anyone with a NA Logitech pre-order get a tracking number yet? The website changed from "Pre-Order" to "In Stock" so it's just a matter of time.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Has anyone with a NA Logitech pre-order get a tracking number yet? The website changed from "Pre-Order" to "In Stock" so it's just a matter of time.


I cancelled my order through Logitech just a few hours ago since I figured I'd end up getting it faster through amazon with free prime shipping. I had ordered right at the beginning of the first day for preorders and cancelling was no big deal so I'm guessing it wasn't just about to be shipped either.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fLaPzZ*
> 
> Got mine today. I wasn't sure about the shape, but after half an hour I'm really liking it. The \_/ shape at the front makes it really easy to lift with my dry hands. There's also room for my pinky. On my FK1, my pinky would be floating in the air, but the G303 has a perfect spot for it to rest. I can claw properly which I couldn't on the FK1.


So how does the G302 and the G303 compare ?

Never seen any pictures of both sitting side by side or is the G303 the exact same shell as the G302 ?

These are the REAL questions that need to be answered and not avoided here on OCN, the TRUTH must come out since we have actual people holding this mouse in their hot hands already.


----------



## Abacus1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> So how does the G302 and the G303 compare ?
> 
> Never seen any pictures of both sitting side by side or is the G303 the exact same shell as the G302 ?
> 
> These are the REAL questions that need to be answered and not avoided here on OCN, the TRUTH must come out since we have actual people holding this mouse in their hot hands already.


I have one, and as we have already known for a long time, it is the same shape.


----------



## Necroblob

I have only had time for one round of CSGO deathmatch so a few preliminary thoughts:


*Cable* - An improvement over the rubber cable on the G302. There is still room for improvement because it is thicker than I would like, but as braided cables go it comes out of the box without any kinks and is relatively flexible. I do not think that this would be a deal breaker in the same way that the G302 cable was for some people.
*Clicks* - As with the G302 these are absolutely great.
*Mousewheel* - Easy to scroll with distinct notches so no problems here.
*Sensor* - Out of the box I must say I am very impressed with the sensor and it feels slightly like the first time that I used the Deathadder (having never used a 1000hz mouse before this was a bit of a revelation). The sensor tracked flawlessly and was extremely responsive. It also felt like it was matching my movements 1-to-1 in a way that I haven't felt with a lot of mice. That said I haven't really put the sensor through its paces properly and it could simply be placebo so I need to spend more time testing over the weekend.
*Shape* - I think the shape is comfortable for my clawgrip, but then I never had any significant issues with the G302. Again this is something that I need to spend more time testing, because what feels comfortable at first touch may not necessarily be easy to control ingame. Time will tell on this one.
So far so good. Hope that helps anyone who is deciding whether or not to take the plunge.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> they are probably not used to it.. I mean it takes a while and they used their other mice for a long time.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *donutvampire*
> 
> I think Shroud has the best aim out of all of cloud9 and he uses the g302/g303.


http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&eventid=1611&playerid=8349
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&eventid=1611&playerid=203

Jordan with 15% more head shots than Shroud. To bad there isn't total accuracy like in CEVO stats.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Hopefully I'll get it tomorrow.
> Shouldn't be soooo bad, I mean everybody from C9 except of n0thing using it.
> 
> They are playing in Katowice and I don't think they would play that important tournament with something what is uncomfortable for them.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> C9 and their g303 lost against VP with their kinzu v3 and zowie mice!




So much for hope. They dropped out in groups. Another very bad showing.

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=179&teamid=5752&eventid=1611


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> My G303 snapped on the ground thrice in 60 minutes of playing CS. Anyone else experienced this problem? Playing on a Hayate.


!!!!!!

I did the surface tuning on the Artisan Raiden MID and played some QLive.
It spazzed out 2 times in about an hour.

I'm now back to the default tuning and HOPE I won't run into any troubles anymore.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I did the surface tuning on the Artisan Raiden MID and played some QLive.
> It spazzed out 2 times in about an hour.
> 
> I'm now back to the default tuning and HOPE I won't run into any troubles anymore.


Known issue since the release of the 3366.

The Raiden and Hayabusa are known to be very bad weave designs for tracking. The Hayabusa I had didn't work at all on the Y axis with the LED mice I had. Those mats were made for glide, not for tracking.


----------



## Melan

Crap. I wonder how it will perform on Zero. I don't remember any sensor spazzing out on it though. Hell, even my G500 (which is not supposed to work well on this pad, says Artisan) worked just dandy.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Known issue since the release of the 3366.


Too bad they didn't improve on that yet.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The Raiden and Hayabusa are known to be very bad weave designs for tracking. The Hayabusa I had didn't work at all on the Y axis with the LED mice I had. Those mats were made for glide, not for tracking.


That's right, the Raiden just feels awesome with superb glide.
Aaaaand, the G303 tracks so far flawlessly on it without the surface tuning feature.


----------



## Melan

So I guess just don't touch the surface tuning. Got it.

Btw, is there a way to reset it? You know, just in case. X-perimental case.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&eventid=1611&playerid=8349
> http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&eventid=1611&playerid=203
> 
> Jordan with 15% more head shots than Shroud. To bad there isn't total accuracy like in CEVO stats.


and here's f0rest rocking a 20% headshot kill rate
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=29&eventid=1611

it doesn't really say much, especially as its only over 3 maps. aim is not something that can be quantified well...


----------



## iceskeleton

You guys are also forgetting JW uses a sensei








Jordan/n0thing actually used a sensei for a while when he was in complexity too. Don't look into pro playes choice in mice so much, it's almost always preference regardless of performance


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> and here's f0rest rocking a 20% headshot kill rate
> http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=29&eventid=1611
> 
> it doesn't really say much, especially as its only over 3 maps. aim is not something that can be quantified well...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> You guys are also forgetting JW uses a sensei
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan/n0thing actually used a sensei for a while when he was in complexity too. Don't look into pro playes choice in mice so much, it's almost always preference regardless of performance


I was pointing out that Shroud doesn't have better aim than Jordan. donutvampire, was saying Shroud has the best aim.

Shroud and Forest have a style that is quickly point and shoot/spray. It's not about precision, hence the head shot percentage.


----------



## qsxcv

that's basically what every pro does... except for scream i guess. as to whether nothing or shroud has better aim, they're close enough that it's really a matter of opinion. but shroud does pull off ridiculous **** like 



 that makes you just go ***...


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Has anyone with a NA Logitech pre-order get a tracking number yet? The website changed from "Pre-Order" to "In Stock" so it's just a matter of time.


Nothing so far for me.


----------



## Maximillion

It's time to face the fact that the NA orders won't ship out until next week


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abacus1234*
> 
> I have one, and as we have already known for a long time, it is the same shape.


Cheap bastards, they've taken a "Zowie" way of doing business. Use the same bogus shell BUT pile in a newer sensor and pay millions in propaganda to fool everyone that they have just released a totally NEW model mouse.

Nice one Logitech aka Zowie/Razer Corp.....







.


----------



## subreach87

n0thing uses the g100s if you watched the game.


----------



## dontspamme

*Anyone frankenmousing this thing yet?*

The shape and balance are crushingly bad for me. Can't play with this.
Going back to my G502 until I can frankenmouse the G303 PCB somehow.


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Cheap bastards, they've taken a "Zowie" way of doing business. Use the same bogus shell BUT pile in a newer sensor and pay millions in propaganda to fool everyone that they have just released a totally NEW model mouse.
> 
> Nice one Logitech aka Zowie/Razer Corp.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Heh, that's the way all of them have always operated. There's like a dozen mice basically using MX500's shape or similar. In principle, there's nothing wrong with that, many have said here that they want G303's tech in an older shell.


----------



## writer21

So looking on Amazon at this mouse and it's going to $70.00. Is this really going to be the price or will it drop.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> So looking on Amazon at this mouse and it's going to $70.00. Is this really going to be the price or will it drop.


It's 90$ here, so be happy with 70









It will drop like G502 dropped a lot in price.


----------



## yukino

Still waiting for the 56€ one @Amazon







I'll take it then for me and sell my used one @ebay







thuglife.

Edit: Some1 asked me for a palmgrip picture, still needed?


----------



## Nunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Still waiting for the 56€ one @Amazon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take it then for me and sell my used one @ebay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thuglife.
> 
> Edit: Some1 asked me for a palmgrip picture, still needed?


Yes please


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> Yes please




Like this? Hope it's okay.


----------



## Nunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Still waiting for the 56€ one @Amazon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take it then for me and sell my used one @ebay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thuglife.
> 
> Edit: Some1 asked me for a palmgrip picture, still needed?


Yes please
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> 
> 
> Like this? Hope it's okay.


Thank you very much


----------



## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> I have only had time for one round of CSGO deathmatch so a few preliminary thoughts:
> 
> snip


I'd like your opinion on the following aswell, as objectively as possible you can:

Weight compared to g302?
Sensor compared to g302?
Stability with the additional mouse feet compared to g302?
Also is there a way to disable the lights on this one?

Thank you!


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yahar*
> 
> I'd like your opinion on the following as well, as objectively as you possibly can:


_Weight compared to g302?_
(Close to) identical. Compared both on letter scales. Lifting cable both ~ stated 88 grams. With cable 128 grams for G302, 134 grams for G303. Extra weight probably comes from the ferrite bead next to the USB plug. The G302 doesn't have one.

_Sensor compared to g302?_
Feels very similar below max malfunction speed of G302, but scales better above.

_Stability with the additional mouse feet compared to g302?_
Impossible to wobble anymore, even if you try.

_Also is there a way to disable the lights on this one?_
Possible to disable side / logo lights independently with two on/off switches in LGS (and saved to onboard). Color can only be set for all. (note: Light can be disabled on G302 as well)


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> _Stability with the additional mouse feet compared to g302?_
> Impossible to wobble anymore, even if you try.


What kind of pad do you use? Made a big difference in how noticeable wobble was on the 302, so if it's wobble-free on something like an x-soft Artisan pad then good going logitech.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> _Stability with the additional mouse feet compared to g302?_
> Impossible to wobble anymore, even if you try.


the wobble was never an issue for me with my G302, can you explain how they "fixed" it?

EDIT: ah a pic from the Logitech website explained everything, they added more feet on the bottom sides. cool, it does look more stable.


----------



## Sencha

They added some outer edge skates on the middle. If I buy one the whole lots coming off. And I'll shoe-horn on some 1.1/3.0 skates in as close to the classic configuration as I can.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> What kind of pad do you use? Made a big difference in how noticeable wobble was on the 302, so if it's wobble-free on something like an x-soft Artisan pad then good going logitech.


I use a hard pad, and if you put enough force on one side of a G302 it clearly tilts around the skates right next to the sensor until it hits the side.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> the wobble was never an issue for me with my G302, can you explain how they "fixed" it?




With the G303 the extra skates are at the exact place where tilting it would hit the unskated sides of the g302. Basic physics makes it impossible to wobble. I think it would be impossible even on a soft pad, unless you have one with varying stiffness, or a very uneven surface underneath it.


----------



## AnimalK

I just got an email from logitech stating that my pre-order has shipped!


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> _Weight compared to g302?_
> (Close to) identical. Compared both on letter scales. Lifting cable both ~ stated 88 grams. With cable 128 grams for G302, 134 grams for G303. Extra weight probably comes from the ferrite bead next to the USB plug. The G302 doesn't have one.
> 
> _Sensor compared to g302?_
> Feels very similar below max malfunction speed of G302, but scales better above.
> 
> _Stability with the additional mouse feet compared to g302?_
> Impossible to wobble anymore, even if you try.
> 
> _Also is there a way to disable the lights on this one?_
> Possible to disable side / logo lights independently with two on/off switches in LGS (and saved to onboard). Color can only be set for all. (note: Light can be disabled on G302 as well)


Thanks - can't add anything to that other than to say I agree


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> *Anyone frankenmousing this thing yet?*


Unless Logitech has changed something, the g303 PCB should fit into alot shells:


Spoiler: Mico302!












I think the easiest way to keep the wheel is to cut the part from the g302 shell that contains the wheel/CPI cycle button and glue it into the top shell part of the other shell. In the first picture you can see the holes for the two screws that connect the g302 top shell part with the bottom part. This way the the ideal wheel height/position remains (in order to work).

In the second picture, you can see glued parts where the mousefeet belong to compensate height difference. That is because the g302 bottom is partially _stepped_.


----------



## popups

*@Thunderbringer*

Why don't you buy a 3D printer instead of cutting all your mice up and gluing them together?


----------



## Thunderbringer

@popups

That is the dream! Maybe one day.


----------



## hslayer

Imagine putting this sensor into g9x body. My gawd fingertippers wettest dream


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> Imagine putting this sensor into g9x body. My gawd fingertippers wettest dream


I'd go for it... I'm not a G9X fan specifically, but I do class that shape as better then this. Or at the very least more "natural".

Still using it though, I'm actually playing noticeable better (not by a large margin, but I'm just overall more snappy at every aiming/shooting action I perform).

Makes me cringe. It's like having the best car engine ever sitting in some weird chassis with 0 aerodynamics.


----------



## eyesmiles

Now I'm starting to think the G303 PCB can fit into a Kinzu shell.


----------



## Roads

One question about the onboard profiles. Doe the G303 have any? The G302 I had here for a day as I accidentally ordered it instead of the G303. The G302 does not have onboard profiles at least I did not find any in the G software just some kind of shift button. Also can macros be recorded like it was possible on the G700 and all older Logitech mice.
Mac software dropped???


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roads*
> 
> One question about the onboard profiles. Doe the G303 have any? The G302 I had here for a day as I accidentally ordered it instead of the G303. The G302 does not have onboard profiles at least I did not find any in the G software just some kind of shift button. Also can macros be recorded like it was possible on the G700 and all older Logitech mice.
> Mac software dropped???


G302 does have onboard memory where you can save a profile. In your LGS go over to the left icon (looks like a house) and you should be able to choose between 'automatic game detection' and 'onboard memory'. Inside LGS I can see that you can set macros to each key as well.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> Speaking of the Logitech software. Does it need to be running for that surface calibration to work? I noticed after I formatted and re-installed the software it doesn't save the mouse pad I calibrated.


The software DOES NOT have to be running for the calibration to work.
The calibration data is SAVED on the mouse itself, but ONLY for the current ACTIVE calibration. HOWEVER the custom calibrations you made (that are NOT ACTIVE) are saved on the software/computer. Any calibration you made remains in mouse memory. Also any programmed (single key) mouse buttons you programmed (not macros) are also saved on the mouse memory. Macros require the software AFAIK.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> My G303 snapped on the ground thrice in 60 minutes of playing CS. Anyone else experienced this problem? Playing on a Hayate.


This is a 'bug' with surface tuning and the sensor's own calibration to surfaces.
MOST problems like this can be resolved by using the FACTORY DEFAULT tuning.
For example, on my Razer Goliathus speed (Older version; it may in fact not be a genuine goliathus but a Chinese ripoff, as my DA black edition had a very low malfunction speed on it, while my 3G 1800 DPI DA worked FLAWLESSLY...what?), the mouse would lose tracking and 'snap' to floor or ceiling randomly if I used ANY preset or even if calibrated directly to the goliathus speed edition, but it tracked perfectly on factory default.

The Puretrak talent, on the other hand, it tracks perfectly whether I calibrate it for the Talent or whether I use factory default. AND THIS IS WITH 1.2MM SIZED MOUSE FEET ON IT! (two 0.6mm hotline games "competition" feet stacked on each other to improve the glide. The mouse still tracks perfectly 1.2mm off the pad. (although the distance is probably 1mm, since there is a slight depression for where the feet go.

The LOD is so low that I thought it wouldn't track with two 0.6mm feet on it, but sure enough, it does. That's cutting it VERY close to the sensor limit, though.

It even tracks on the old Razer Exactmat (speed and control sides) with 1.2mm double stacked hotline games mouse feet (0.6mm x 2).

But anyway,
If you get tracking problems on factory default, then change the mouse pad to a different one, and maybe send a support ticket to Logitech about the surface incompatibility.

Someone said that it tracked fine on the 'buggy' surface when they used the same mouse and pad on a friend's computer, but take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> This is a 'bug' with surface tuning and the sensor's own calibration to surfaces.
> MOST problems like this can be resolved by using the FACTORY DEFAULT tuning.


Noticed the same.
G303 + Artisan Raiden MID + surface tuning = 1 hour gaming with 2 times sensor spazzing out
G303 + Artisan Raiden MID - surface tuning = 3 hours gaming without any tracking problems

Serious question though: WHAT is surface tuning for anyway? I know that the SQAT from Mionix mice is just a software gimmick that's completely useless. Is this similiar? Is it for lowering LOD only? I noticed that the LOD went from like 1.5mm without tuning to like 1.2mm with tuning. Maybe placebo though. Noticed nothing else tracking or performing wise. Well, beside those obvious flaws where the sensor spazzed out.


----------



## CorruptBE

Turning mousepads sideways/upside down can also remedy this sometimes. At least when weaving pattern is the cause.


----------



## kackbratze

TBH I'm too lazy to read >100 pages to find an answer to my question but I hope someone is going to be nice enough to answer anyway:

whats are the improvements over the g302?


----------



## Kyube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> TBH I'm too lazy to read >100 pages to find an answer to my question but I hope someone is going to be nice enough to answer anyway:
> 
> whats are the improvements over the g302?


Better sensor (Pixart PMW 3366), braided cable and RGB lights.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyube*
> 
> Better sensor (Pixart PMW 3366), braided cable and RGB lights.


And wobbling fixed


----------



## Brightmist

3366 sensor, extra feet to fix side-to-side wobble, new cable, RGB lights.


----------



## kackbratze

thank you very much, guys.

had the g302, found the wobbling really annoying (and LOD was too high IMO).

probably going to buy the g303 once it is released in europe.


----------



## pinobot

I don't like the right click on the G303.
When i rest my middle finger on the button the weight of my finger clicks the button. If you rest your ringfinger on it it's ok.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> whats are the improvements over the g302?


Sensor with higher malfunction speed and lower LOD
Braided cable
Better balance due to side skates
16m color leds


----------



## ThinJ

I got a ship notice from Amazon for mine this morning. Delivery date is supposedly tomorrow.

I guess that's the advantage of having two Amazon distribution centers within an hour's drive and a third not much farther out


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> probably going to buy the g303 once it is released in europe.


Almost all people that have it now have it because Logitech had the G303 in stock through their European sites first. Most people I saw posting about them are Dutch, Belgian or German.


----------



## Furell

Let's just pray for a G902 announcement from Logitech (or G702 if executed right!). We want some new shells
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I don't like the right click on the G303.
> When i rest my middle finger on the button the weight of my finger clicks the button. If you rest your ringfinger on it it's ok.


Did you have the G302 and did those problems occur there aswell? I'm curious if there's a difference in right click between the 2.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furell*
> 
> Let's just pray for a G902 announcement from Logitech (or G702 if executed right!). We want some new shells


Even though I put in an order for the 303, I would DEFINITELY be up for some kind of 702 (or 703... just the same sensor as the 303/502, please). But it either needs a greatly improved battery life, or shouldn't be wireless at all, cause I stopped using the 700s because I didn't want to charge the thing every other damn day.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Even though I put in an order for the 303, I would DEFINITELY be up for some kind of 702 (or 703... just the same sensor as the 303/502, please). But it either needs a greatly improved battery life, or shouldn't be wireless at all, cause I stopped using the 700s because I didn't want to charge the thing every other damn day.


I don't think the 3366 was designed to be used for wireless mice. That would be more the 3310 or another sensor.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furell*
> 
> Let's just pray for a G902 announcement from Logitech (or G702 if executed right!). We want some new shells
> Did you have the G302 and did those problems occur there aswell? I'm curious if there's a difference in right click between the 2.


I don't have the G302, on the Sensei RAW for instance i don't have this problem.
I didn't even notice at first, strangely you adapt really fast to small flaws.
The left button is just right, you can rest your finger on it and it doesn't click but when you click it the weight of your finger is enough to hold the button pressed, same goes for the right button when using your ringfinger.


----------



## pinobot

Just now crashed the mouse.
I was playing with the mouse lighting and it suddenly stopped working. Replugging didn't work and restarting Windows didn't work. The light kept burning though. I had to remove the mouse in Devices and Printers (where it had an exclamation mark next to it) and replug it to get it working again.
I had to start the software to get the internal memory restored.


----------



## jigglywiggly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThinJ*
> 
> I got a ship notice from Amazon for mine this morning. Delivery date is supposedly tomorrow.
> 
> I guess that's the advantage of having two Amazon distribution centers within an hour's drive and a third not much farther out


I'm amazon prime and mine comes Wednesday


----------



## Melan

Amazon.es doesn't even have it yet. I'm tired of waiting for this.


----------



## Cyro999

same for amazon UK


----------



## Nunex

Amazon.fr and Amazon.de have them.

edit: maybe not


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jigglywiggly*
> 
> I'm amazon prime and mine comes Wednesday


I have prime as well but under my orders it says Arriving Mar 17, 2015 Shipping today.


----------



## Brightmist

TSM also had atleast 3x 302/303 on Katowice as far as I can tell.


----------



## aleexkrysel

Madlife was playing on a 302 as well, saw it during champ select.


----------



## Roads

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> G302 does have onboard memory where you can save a profile. In your LGS go over to the left icon (looks like a house) and you should be able to choose between 'automatic game detection' and 'onboard memory'. Inside LGS I can see that you can set macros to each key as well.


Yeah it has one, sorry wasn't specific enough, I read the G303 has 3. What about the macros? Possible to set a burst fire on the left mouse button? Like button down- 64ms- button up? On the G700 it was necessary to move away the left button for this as the LMB is essential for a mouse to work and cant be macroed. Can the G302/G303 do this?


----------



## Sencha

OK I cracked and re-ordered...Want to play with something new!









Is there space to rip off all the skates and put 4x 1.1/3.0 skates?

I was thinking 4-5 where the red lines are.

Picture courtesy of Popups










or maybe not bother with back one and slide the 2 middles as far back as they will go.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> OK I cracked and re-ordered...Want to play with something new!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there space to rip off all the skates and put 4x 1.1/3.0 skates?
> 
> I was thinking 4-5 where the red lines are.
> 
> Picture courtesy of Popups
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or maybe not bother with back one and slide the 2 middles as far back as they will go.


Why would you ever wanna do that though Is the question :O


----------



## Sencha

Prefer the glide feel of 1.1/3.0 skates. Keep the glide feel in multiple direction the same. Also its the amount of contact I like the best for friction.


----------



## pinobot

The size and shape of the glides/skates have no infuence on gliding performance.
If you make contact area of the glides twice as large the force per square cm will be devided by two. Friction and static friction will stay the same in both instances.
The only advantage in using larger glides is that they will last longer, especially when you use a palm grip and/or low sensitivity.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> same for amazon UK


Yeah would have thought they'd have it up by now.

Edit: spoke to the live chat asking for any updates.
Quote:


> Subramanian: Thanks for waiting.
> 
> Me: Thanks for thanking me for waiting
> 
> Subramanian: I've checked and can see that we are not having the stock of this item on our website.
> We are waiting for our suppliers to provide the supply of this item. Once we receive the item from our suppliers we'll listed it on our website.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't think the 3366 was designed to be used for wireless mice. That would be more the 3310 or another sensor.


And how would you know? Even if the next iteration of the G700 had a 3310, I would definitely prefer that over the G303, because I loved the G700 shape.


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> TSM also had atleast 3x 302/303 on Katowice as far as I can tell.


Only Wildturtle it seems like. Bjergsen is using the G502, Lustboy with the G402. Dyrus/Santorin with G500s mouse.

The stream quality isnt that good, even at the highest resolution.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> TSM also had atleast 3x 302/303 on Katowice as far as I can tell.
> 
> 
> 
> Only Wildturtle it seems like. Bjergsen is using the G502, Lustboy with the G402. Dyrus/Santorin with G500s mouse.
> 
> The stream quality isnt that good, even at the highest resolution.
Click to expand...

He is talking about the CS go team


----------



## MasterBash

Oh, I wasnt aware they had a CSGO team.

I still want a ~70-80g G100s with side buttons and 3366.


----------



## tramas

Hi guys, I finally got my g303 and I only have one question about the sensor performance for those who have the G303 or G502. Do you guys recommend to use the tuning surface feature? Or it will cause some extra issues with the tracking? I have a Razer goliathus speed.
Thanks.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> Hi guys, I finally got my g303 and I only have one question about the sensor performance for those who have the G303 or G502. Do you guys recommend to use the tuning surface feature? Or it will cause some extra issues with the tracking? I have a Razer goliathus speed.
> Thanks.


Set it to default, back when I've set my G502 to use the G440 setting, the cursor jumped around all the time, didn't do that on my QcK+ tho.


----------



## CorruptBE

Didn't do the "Surface Tuning", just set it to a dpi matching what's closest to 800 on my FK1, disabled the RGB leds, made sure it was 1000Hz, saved it and never opened up the software again (even disabled it at boot).

No issues on a Puretrak talent.


----------



## tramas

And what about the polling rate? I always used 500hz because it was more stable than 1000hz. is it the same case right here?


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> Hi guys, I finally got my g303 and I only have one question about the sensor performance for those who have the G303 or G502. Do you guys recommend to use the tuning surface feature? Or it will cause some extra issues with the tracking? I have a Razer goliathus speed.
> Thanks.


I noticed no difference in tracking on my G502 when I calibrated it to my Hayate from the factory default.


----------



## semantics

Surface tuning doesn't seem to be perfect if you want a much lower LOD you can try it and see if you get any issues if you're lucky it'll work else i wouldn't bother and leave it on default.


----------



## CorruptBE

Can you purposely mess up the surface tuning to get a higher LOD? (I would like that







)


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aleexkrysel*
> 
> Madlife was playing on a 302 as well, saw it during champ select.


maybe thats why he was so bad that game, i wonder what his mouse was before the crap 302


----------



## aleexkrysel

No, he sure didn't have the best showing at IEM. Now its time to see what turtle does with his 302...


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> maybe thats why he was so bad that game, i wonder what his mouse was before the crap 302


He had a g100s before.


----------



## Furell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Even though I put in an order for the 303, I would DEFINITELY be up for some kind of 702 (or 703... just the same sensor as the 303/502, please). But it either needs a greatly improved battery life, or shouldn't be wireless at all, cause I stopped using the 700s because I didn't want to charge the thing every other damn day.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aleexkrysel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he sure didn't have the best showing at IEM. Now its time to see what turtle does with his 302...


Just curious why a pro gamer, especially a sponsored one from Logitech, should pick a G302 over a G303. Isn't G303 just the same except better in some ways? Serious question!


----------



## Furell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Even though I put in an order for the 303, I would DEFINITELY be up for some kind of 702 (or 703... just the same sensor as the 303/502, please). But it either needs a greatly improved battery life, or shouldn't be wireless at all, cause I stopped using the 700s because I didn't want to charge the thing every other damn day.


As great as G700s was, especially with button layout, it didn't quite live up to his expectations of 100 euro for me. I prefer them doing wired instead, or really improve on the wired/wireless hybrid this time. Which I don't expect them to do because it was utterly bad implemented. The button layout was the biggest upside for me, so if they put in a great sensor with great cable I'm more than happy.


----------



## ThinJ

Mine came today. My initial impression of it is _really_ good. Build quality is Logitech's usual, button clicks feel excellent, and the tracking is as expected pretty much impossible to beat.

Regarding the shape, I can see why some don't like it, but as a person with very long fingers and big hands who is basically forced to fingertip grip every mouse in existence it's kind of a non factor.

We'll see what a few more days of time with it does to my opinion.


----------



## Furell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I don't have the G302, on the Sensei RAW for instance i don't have this problem.
> I didn't even notice at first, strangely you adapt really fast to small flaws.
> The left button is just right, you can rest your finger on it and it doesn't click but when you click it the weight of your finger is enough to hold the button pressed, same goes for the right button when using your ringfinger.


Hmm that sounds really annoying. I think it really depends on your grip and on how ''heavy'' your hands really are or how you put them down on your mouse. Well, thanks for the comment I most definitely want to hold it in my hands first before purchasing!


----------



## Furell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThinJ*
> 
> Mine came today. My initial impression of it is _really_ good. Build quality is Logitech's usual, button clicks feel excellent, and the tracking is as expected pretty much impossible to beat.
> 
> Regarding the shape, I can see why some don't like it, but as a person with very long fingers and big hands who is basically forced to fingertip grip every mouse in existence it's kind of a non factor.
> 
> We'll see what a few more days of time with it does to my opinion.


Glad to hear you like it. Do you fingertip G303 aswell?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furell*
> 
> Just curious why a pro gamer, especially a sponsored one from Logitech, should pick a G302 over a G303. Isn't G303 just the same except better in some ways? Serious question!


i don't have a g303 yet, so i can't comment on its tracking. But different mice will track slightly differently. So while the g302 might have a lower max speed then the g303, maybe he prefers the feel of the tracking and doesn't need a high max speed. I thought the g302 felt substantially different then the g100s even and they have the same sensor. Roach said the g302 felt tighter, and after reading that i thought that was an apt description of the different feeling i was getting with the g302. Roach didn't like this "tight" feeling, i do, maybe the pro gamer does as well.


----------



## turnschuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> The size and shape of the glides/skates have no infuence on gliding performance.
> If you make contact area of the glides twice as large the force per square cm will be devided by two. Friction and static friction will stay the same in both instances.
> The only advantage in using larger glides is that they will last longer, especially when you use a palm grip and/or low sensitivity.


What Oo

The shape and size of a feet influences the glide very differently. Even the same feet just placed differently makes much of a difference. Just think about MS 1.1/3.0 feet being placed horizontally vs vertically on the upper part of the mouse bottom.


----------



## ThinJ

Yeah, I fingertip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furell*
> 
> Glad to hear you like it. Do you fingertip G303 aswell?


Yeah. Working out great so far.

If I get through a couple weeks more of heavy use and still feel this way I could see this becoming my new favorite. At least until Coolermaster stops dragging their feet on the Xornet/Spawn update.


----------



## Huzzaa

Are they selling these pieces anywhere in the Baltic or perhaps even Finland?

I haven't found a piece locally and I'd prefer not ordering one online although I don't know, may seem to be the only way right now.

Anyways, how's the rubber wheel holding on? I have the g502 and the only gripe I have with it is the weight and the wheel, this seems to be the perfect replacement for perfection







.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> The size and shape of the glides/skates have no infuence on gliding performance.
> If you make contact area of the glides twice as large the force per square cm will be devided by two. Friction and static friction will stay the same in both instances.


You are dead wrong sir.
Size might not have any influence on the amount of friction generated but shape is a whole different ballgame.
Well made skates like Hyperglides with rounded corners will significantly reduce the amount of friction and therefore extremely recommended.


----------



## semantics

Increasing the area decreases the pressure mathematically irrc it pretty much cancels it out so making the skates larger or smaller doesn't change the friction force generated. But I will say how the skates are made and position sorta does because dust and crap gathers around the skates so rounding them properly etc can affect the performance over time.


----------



## Furell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i don't have a g303 yet, so i can't comment on its tracking. But different mice will track slightly differently. So while the g302 might have a lower max speed then the g303, maybe he prefers the feel of the tracking and doesn't need a high max speed. I thought the g302 felt substantially different then the g100s even and they have the same sensor. Roach said the g302 felt tighter, and after reading that i thought that was an apt description of the different feeling i was getting with the g302. Roach didn't like this "tight" feeling, i do, maybe the pro gamer does as well.


Hmm, well thanks for the clear explanation. I might even start looking at the G302 then since it's a lot cheaper and I expect it to get lower even more in the time to come. I don't reach those high speeds so I should be fine with the sensor, although I'm a bit sceptical about the mouse cord. Downside is I currently have a G502 and there's nothing worse about a downgrade in sensor (if you notice it ofcourse), G502 shape sucks so well I definitely will buy a G303 if G302 isn't good enough


----------



## Melan

If you live in EU, amazon.es has G302 for 36 euros atm. 55 for G502.


----------



## DTrinh09

How does this mouse feel compared to the CM Storm Spawn? I'm a fingertip user. The ring finger rest is something I kinda missed when I switched to the Corsair M45, but the cable got wrecked by my cat so I'm using my Spawn until I can get the cable fixed.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> How does this mouse feel compared to the CM Storm Spawn? I'm a fingertip user. The ring finger rest is something I kinda missed when I switched to the Corsair M45, but the cable got wrecked by my cat so I'm using my Spawn until I can get the cable fixed.


I'll be able to let you know in a day or so. Right now I'm using a G402 but the Spawn was my mouse right before it.


----------



## aleexkrysel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furell*
> 
> Just curious why a pro gamer, especially a sponsored one from Logitech, should pick a G302 over a G303. Isn't G303 just the same except better in some ways? Serious question!


No reason, either they were using them and we couldn't tell cause the leds were set to blue or they weren't able to get the 303 shipped in time which seems likely.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Can you purposely mess up the surface tuning to get a higher LOD? (I would like that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Wouldn't hovering the mouse over the mouse pad while it is tuning do that for you? If you have any CDs lying around, try stacking them and tuning it.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> You are dead wrong sir.
> Size might not have any influence on the amount of friction generated but shape is a whole different ballgame.
> Well made skates like Hyperglides with rounded corners will significantly reduce the amount of friction and therefore extremely recommended.


This may seem logical but physics is not an opinion.


----------



## JesperT

Hi,
I just want to ask you if you can adjust the lift-off distance manually on this mouse, or is that surface optimizing tool the only possibilty to change it ?
Like CorruptBE I like to use a much higher lift off distance.
This is really a deal breaking thing for me if I am going to replace my Kana v2 for this mouse (which seems perfect for me in all other ways).


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tramas*
> 
> And what about the polling rate? I always used 500hz because it was more stable than 1000hz. is it the same case right here?


Both 500hz and 1000hz are perfectly dead stable on this mouse. Use 1000hz. There's NO benefit to using 500 hz on this mouse unless you're using a wooden CPU.

The Deathadder, on the other hand, sucked at 1000 hz and was dead on stable at 500 hz (I don't know if that applies to the 2013/Chroma version, but it sure applied to the Black edition AND the 3G and 3.5G).


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Unless Logitech has changed something, the g303 PCB should fit into alot shells:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mico302!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the easiest way to keep the wheel is to cut the part from the g302 shell that contains the wheel/CPI cycle button and glue it into the top shell part of the other shell. In the first picture you can see the holes for the two screws that connect the g302 top shell part with the bottom part. This way the the ideal wheel height/position remains (in order to work).
> 
> In the second picture, you can see glued parts where the mousefeet belong to compensate height difference. That is because the g302 bottom is partially _stepped_.


Thanks.

This mod looks fairly simple. No soldering required, yay.
Wonder if I can fit it into a MX310 shell.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> The size and shape of the glides/skates have no infuence on gliding performance.
> If you make contact area of the glides twice as large the force per square cm will be devided by two. Friction and static friction will stay the same in both instances.
> The only advantage in using larger glides is that they will last longer, especially when you use a palm grip and/or low sensitivity.


newtonian friction has its limitations. mousepads, especially the top bit of fabric on soft pads, are deformable. this means that in general, the shape and size of the mousefeet do matter.


----------



## sonskusa

The 303 is as expected. Cable is a huge plus, sensor is good, mouse feet I may get rid of as it feels slightly more resistant than my 302. Only problem I've had so far is that LGS is not detecting it, so I'm unable to customize.


----------



## hajabooja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> The 303 is as expected. Cable is a huge plus, sensor is good, mouse feet I may get rid of as it feels slightly more resistant than my 302. Only problem I've had so far is that LGS is not detecting it, so I'm unable to customize.


Uninstall and reinstall LGS, same thing happened to me. I also redownloaded it as I wasn't sure that I had the most up to date version.


----------



## pinobot

Best is to install the software first and then plug in the mouse.
The mousefeet take some time to get smoother.
I'm still not sure about the shape, on the one had i hold the mouse vertical but there are times that i'm really aware that i'm holding a different shape mouse. The fact that it has no rubber sides doesn't help either.


----------



## sonskusa

Tried re-installing and plugging in mouse after, still not detecting it unfortunately. Using version 8.58.183 64bit.

Also does this thing when I unplug/plug into usb where it goes through the color wheel for 12 seconds, lights shut off, turn back on and only breathes blue. Tracking never stops though.


----------



## Melan

Try other USB ports etc.


----------



## edyago

T
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Tried re-installing and plugging in mouse after, still not detecting it unfortunately. Using version 8.58.183 64bit.
> 
> Also does this thing when I unplug/plug into usb where it goes through the color wheel for 12 seconds, lights shut off, turn back on and only breathes blue. Tracking never stops though.


Try running Logitech Gaming Software in Administrator mode. That does it for me.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edyago*
> 
> T
> Try running Logitech Gaming Software in Administrator mode. That does it for me.


Thanks, that worked for me too. Showed right when I ran as admin, proceeded to update firmware. Tried running again w/out admin and it still didn't detect. Ran as admin again and it was there.


----------



## eMbAh

it doesn't wobble like 302? what changed for that?


----------



## Melan

No it does not. They added feet on the sides.


----------



## pinobot

Does anybody know how much the force the pretention springs in the G303 put on the switches?
If i have to guess it it's about 25 grams but i don't want to open the mouse and start ripping things out on a hunch.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Does anybody know how much the force the pretention springs in the G303 put on the switches?
> If i have to guess it it's about 25 grams but i don't want to open the mouse and start ripping things out on a hunch.


They actually dont put much force one them, just a little bit to make sure the actuator stays connected to the switch, altough with different torque, you get different results ofc.


----------



## pinobot

Thanks.
I've been trying a piece of foam and it works pretty good, only difficult to get right.


----------



## royalkilla408

I got mine from Amazon. I am coming from using the G502.

Personally I am loving it! I already adjusted to the grip. I have no problem with it at all.
The mouse weight doesn't feel as light as I thought it would be. The grip also helps me lift the mouse super easy without feeling like its going to slip away from my fingers.
The quality is very good but not as good as the G502. I love the rubber parts of the G502 and they aren't found on this mouse which makes it feel a lot cheaper.
The feet are great! They move flawlessly on my SteelSeries mat.
The two main mouse button are great! Just as good as the G502 which I think its the best mouse buttons I've tried.
The side button though aren't that great. They are a bit hard to find and the click isn't as good as the G502. They don't get on the way though and aren't easily pressed when playing.
The wheel is great! One of the best wheels I've tried. Next to the Roccat Optical I have which IMO is the best wheel I have tried. I am going to miss the freewheel on the G502 though when scrolling a long website. Still, the G502 had one of the worst wheels ever.
The lighting is awesome! I HATED the light on the G502 because it was just one color. It doesn't go with my computer build or keyboard. It looked out of place on my desk. I'm very happy they finally provided color choice.
The DPI button is okay. I prefer two DPI buttons to go up and down. Not just one DPI to switch between options.
The sensor. What can I say? Its the best sensor on the market. I cannot go back to anything else. Its just that good.
Overall its my favorite mouse to date. I enjoyed my G502 from the beginning and now I am already loving my G502. It is the closest feeling to my old favorite mouse of all time: G9x.


----------



## Brightmist

85g isn't really light for a small-to-average sized mouse. I wish they made these mice lighter, around 75g.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> The mouse weight doesn't feel as light as I thought it would be. The grip also helps me lift the mouse super easy without feeling like its going to slip away from my fingers.
> The side button though aren't that great.


My thoughts exactly. I thought it would feel a lot more lighter than my G402 since the weight is 20G less, but it's does not feel like a big difference.
One of the side buttons is actually hard to find and press, especially Mouse4 (the one farther away from you) because it's a bit too slim.

The LOD after tuning is very low, too low if you ask me. Lower than Zowie mice. Less than 1CD for sure and for some strange reason I felt my head was spinning when I was doing flicks but lifting the mouse stopped the movement in game. Using the factory default and it's about 1CD. My mouse pad is a brand new Func F10.s.

The cable is much better than the G402. I don't know what they were thinking including that tense stiff cable. Even with my Armadillo2, I had to mess around a lot to get it working for the G402. The G303 cable is perfect.

In comparison to CM Spawn, I would say that the circular shape of the mouse makes me feel like I'm gripping a tennis ball and the resting of the index finger does not seem like an issue.


----------



## jigglywiggly

Well I got the new g303, and the cable is still complete crap.

The side feet do help though, more than I thought it would. The mouse sticks a bit less, and you can feel the stability has been improved. The clicks are exactly the same which is good.
I never had any issues with the original sensor, so I can't comment on the new one.


----------



## kifkiz

never had any problems with the g302 cable so is the g303 cable a step up or worse?


----------



## offshell

I got mine from amazon earlier today. I'm not in love with the shape but it's doable for me since I use a bit of a hybrid grip. I've been using a Zowie FK1 and a bit of an EC2-A and had no problem picking up the 303 and playing about the same which is more than I could say for my attempt at using the EVGA X5.


----------



## hslayer

anyone know how to uninstall this logitech gaming software? I finished setting up my mouse and I was trying to uninstall it but its not listed under uninstall or change a program inside the control panel...


----------



## jigglywiggly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kifkiz*
> 
> never had any problems with the g302 cable so is the g303 cable a step up or worse?


Slightly better, but it's even thicker.


----------



## qsxcv

what's the point of braiding anyway? does it allow for a thinner rubber layer underneath?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Only Wildturtle it seems like. Bjergsen is using the G502, Lustboy with the G402. Dyrus/Santorin with G500s mouse.


I guess this explains why Dyrus doesn't play any skillshot champs.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jigglywiggly*
> 
> Well I got the new g303, and the cable is still complete crap.


Why do you say that? It seems softer than most braided cables, flexible and does not get in the way. Compared to the G402, I don't see how it can be bad.


----------



## jigglywiggly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Why do you say that? It seems softer than most braided cables, flexible and does not get in the way. Compared to the G402, I don't see how it can be bad.


It's too thick/weighs too much and can push the mouse away.

A good cable is like the deathadder 2013's/Zowie EC2. light, nimble and doesn't push the mouse in the opposite direction if it starts to bend.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I guess this explains why Dyrus doesn't play any skillshot champs.


I just spit up my cranberry juice after reading this...


----------



## juhisrrr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Are they selling these pieces anywhere in the Baltic or perhaps even Finland?


I live in Finland and ordered straight from Logitech. UPS will deliver it to your homedoor and no other expenses added. However I was kinda disappointed with the g303 itself.

FEET: One of the side feet was sticking out when i opened the box, managed to fix it but glide was bad as well.

LOD: Way too low, not even tracking at 1CD. On my g302 it's more than 1 CD which is perfect to me.

SENSOR: Flawless if you ask me, sligthly better than on g302. Im using 400DPI 6/11 2.5 sens so I might not swipe as fast as some.

OVERALL: Im still using g302 as long as someone know a way to trick the surface tuning for getting higher LOD


----------



## iceskeleton

Did you surface tune out of the box? I heard not tuning will have a higher LOD


----------



## juhisrrr

Tried both but ended up using factory default. Surface tuning was giving me mouse malfunction in game atleast on my xtrfy black pad.


----------



## JesperT

What happens if you put on some really thick skates on the feet (or something else to raise the mouse a bit above the pad) and then do surface tuning ?
Can you artificially make the LOD higher this way ?


----------



## Ickz

Just got mine. Coming from using a FK/FK1 for the past two years or so. Cable seems fine. Isn't atrocious like the G402 cable and is actually one of the better cables right out of the box for me - will probably get even better with use. Scroll wheel feels quite nice which is a nice change of pace since it seems like many mice skimp on it - perhaps the button could use a little less force to depress, but that may change once I get it worked in a bit. R/LMB feel solid and don't require a lot of force to press. After using huanos for so long, I find myself accidentally pressing them at times - just have to get used to it. Shape is... different. Definitely the biggest thing to get used to but even after a couple hours of use, I already am. I could see this being a deal breaker for some because everyone has different grips - I use kind of a hybrid claw/finger-tip grip, I guess, and it works for me.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JesperT*
> 
> What happens if you put on some really thick skates on the feet (or something else to raise the mouse a bit above the pad) and then do surface tuning ?
> Can you artificially make the LOD higher this way ?


I think you can just tune to a lighter surface (white paper) which could give you a higher LOD. But I don't know what exactly is tuned for, so maybe this causes other errors.


----------



## Melan

Amazon.es still doesn't have G303 and it's impossible to order it directly from logitech.es because they don't recognize either my account or my address. GGWP logitech.


----------



## vinzbe

Why don't you use amazon.fr or amazon.de ? I usually get free shipping (for Belgium) when I order from there.


----------



## hslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> anyone know how to uninstall this logitech gaming software? I finished setting up my mouse and I was trying to uninstall it but its not listed under uninstall or change a program inside the control panel...


anyone know how?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> Why don't you use amazon.fr or amazon.de ? I usually get free shipping (for Belgium) when I order from there.


Because I have to pay extra 15-20 euros. EU bro.

After 30 minutes of jimmy rustle, I finally managed to order it off Logitech site. Mind you, it was bugged SO BADLY that I almost ordered 6 mice instead of 1. Logitech fix your junk.


----------



## Sencha

Sweet! did you do the free express shipping hack?


----------



## Melan

No. I didn't bother breaking this crap even more. Some stuff only works on GB or US sites, so yeah.


----------



## Sencha

Oh right yeah you weren't on UK site.


----------



## Sencha

Mine just got dropped off.

I really like the shape! I use a finger tip hybrid grip where the thumb and pinky hug the sides of the mouse while fingers are in the classic finger tip. I find this works on any mouse so no surprises it works here. It feels different to other mice of course and reminded me of when I first picked up an Abyssus. But I really like it...a lot! And even the edges feel nice which I wasn't expecting.

Clicks are great, I'd prefer heavier but that's only because I like Zowie clicks so much, I plan on switching to this mouse full time so I'm sure after a few hours they'll feel good.

Sensors is great, weight is great. Not a lot I'd change. Prefer a rubber cables but just nit picking really.

Way better then I thought it was going to be. A superb mouse, good work Logitech.


----------



## Melan

One thing bothers me. What is the thickness of top, bottom and side feet. Is it identical? I have Hotline competition feet (0.6mm top/bottom and 0.28mm middle feet) for G302 around, so just to know if I can use these along with the default ones on the side.


----------



## rivage

Can anyone tell me if I should pick up the g303? been using my deathadder for quite some time. Is the transition going to be natural? shape-wise of-course? I mostly play mobas, so yeah I was wondering about that new mouse. Thank's!


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Can anyone tell me if I should pick up the g303? been using my deathadder for quite some time. Is the transition going to be natural? shape-wise of-course? I mostly play mobas, so yeah I was wondering about that new mouse. Thank's!


Your question is super strange. The shapes and the way you grip the two mice couldn't be more different.


----------



## Nunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Can anyone tell me if I should pick up the g303? been using my deathadder for quite some time. Is the transition going to be natural? shape-wise of-course? I mostly play mobas, so yeah I was wondering about that new mouse. Thank's!


I've ordered a G303 already, but I would like to know this too...


----------



## iBzzz

Was curious when I read about this so went back to using my G302 for a bit (I only stopped due to cord) and then figured I would give the G303 a go.
Primary reason I've now stopped using the G303 is weight. Not sure if anyone else has spotted/mentioned this but the mouse feels a lot heavier than the G302 even though the website says they are the same? So although the cord and sensor are nice improvements the additional weight with the shape just cause too much wrist pain for me.

Shame, I really really like the feel of the mouse, I just can't use it comfortably for any period of time.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iBzzz*
> 
> Not sure if anyone else has spotted/mentioned this but the mouse feels a lot heavier than the G302 even though the website says they are the same?


I weighed both of them, and the weight is identical. Only the cord is heavier due to the ferrite bead next to the USB plug. That shouldn't influence movement though.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iBzzz*
> 
> Was curious when I read about this so went back to using my G302 for a bit (I only stopped due to cord) and then figured I would give the G303 a go.
> Primary reason I've now stopped using the G303 is weight. Not sure if anyone else has spotted/mentioned this but the mouse feels a lot heavier than the G302 even though the website says they are the same? So although the cord and sensor are nice improvements the additional weight with the shape just cause too much wrist pain for me.
> 
> Shame, I really really like the feel of the mouse, I just can't use it comfortably for any period of time.


Weight is the same, could just be the additional mousefeet--makes it feel heavier because of increased friction.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Weight is the same, could just be the additional mousefeet--makes it feel heavier because of increased friction.


Increased area of mouse feet does not increase friction.


----------



## classit

how you compare g303 to g502 and g400?


----------



## braindamage

Anyone have a lens rattling problem with their G303? The rattling actually causes my cursor to jiggle around when I stop moving the mouse.


----------



## Sencha

Well that's an instant RMA fault so get it sent back. Mine is rock solid. Good luck getting it sorted


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *classit*
> 
> how you compare g303 to g502 and g400?


You don't is the answer. They all have different shapes and that's pure preference. I can't stand the g400/g502 shape. And love the G303. What shapes do you like in mice?


----------



## iBzzz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> I weighed both of them, and the weight is identical. Only the cord is heavier due to the ferrite bead next to the USB plug. That shouldn't influence movement though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Weight is the same, could just be the additional mousefeet--makes it feel heavier because of increased friction.


I'm judging this increased weight felt when picking up the mouse to re-position on pad. It definitely feels heavier to lift than the 302, whether that's cord influence or not. Not even sure it can be placebo as I can cope with the 302 fine but get massive wrist pain with the 303 after just a few minutes.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Increased area of mouse feet does not increase friction.


Not generally true.


----------



## TK421

Price is still 70usd, G502 is cheaper than this /:

When will the price go down, can anyone give estimate?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Price is still 70usd, G502 is cheaper than this /:
> 
> When will the price go down, can anyone give estimate?


I'm guessing three months from now you'll see its "real" price show up on the market.

Where you are, you might also have a website that can track prices like this (this is Germany):

G502 price history: http://geizhals.de/?phist=1098847
G402 price history: http://geizhals.de/?phist=1147413
G302 price history: http://geizhals.de/?phist=1191342


----------



## Melan

When it will be finally available everywhere, because even some amazon stores don't have it. Then + a few more month after that.


----------



## fasti

Scrolling and pushing the scroll button down any different from G302?


----------



## r0ach

Off topic, but any G302 owners know if Logitech updated firmware on it for anything because I've never installed the software for it ever.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Scrolling and pushing the scroll button down any different from G302?


Slight difference in mine, better in G303, but probably down to normal production variance


----------



## classit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> You don't is the answer. They all have different shapes and that's pure preference. I can't stand the g400/g502 shape. And love the G303. What shapes do you like in mice?


g400 , old is gold


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *classit*
> 
> g400 , old is gold


Well damn get on the 402









But also get a 303 to show your support of Logitech making a premium ambi style mouse.


----------



## Maximillion

My G303 finally arrived today. It feels much bigger in the hand than I thought it would (which is a good thing). Shape is definitely different than any other mouse I've tried but I really don't see what all the controversy is about now that I actually have it in my hand. Clicks are great, so much so that I can foresee myself becoming spoiled by them vs using other mice. The cable is fine but it's so thick it barely fits in my bungee lol. Haven't tried in-game yet but pretty pleased with it from initial impressions.


----------



## Melan

So yeah, weird question. Does removing mouse feet void warranty? And what is the thickness of G303 feet? Would be good to hear from @CPate too.

I have 0.5mm hyperglides I'm willing to install.


----------



## CPate

G303 foot thickness is identical to G302.

Removing/replacing feet does not void warranty.


----------



## 7Teku

Yeah mine came in today.

Sensor feels great, clicks and scroll wheel feel great, even though it is wayy to far back on the mouse. Side buttons are positioned a little meh to be honest. You kind of have to take your entire thumb off of the mouse to reach them.

Shape wise, it's alright. It fills my hand a lot more than I would have expected. It has a really small ass compared to the rest of the mouse which feels really weird to me right now. Just not nearly as comfy as my g100s









And it feels a little heavier than I would have liked, but I'm sure I can cut some excess plastic out


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> G303 foot thickness is identical to G302.
> 
> Removing/replacing feet does not void warranty.


Identical is... uhm... 0.6mm I suppose?


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Got mine. The sensor, mouse clicks, and mouse wheel all feel great. I have to say, the shape really doesn't feel too bad in my hand, it almost reminds me of the FK only fatter. The braided cable is annoying as hell, it keeps getting caught on my Hayate mousepads top edge, any anyone with Artisan pads know a good fix? I just put a piece of scotch tape across the top for a temp fix.


----------



## pinobot

Does anybody have any experience with grip-tape?
I found this:
http://www.sailboats.co.uk/psp-soft-grip-tape-50mm-x-4m
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Yeah mine came in today.
> 
> Sensor feels great, clicks and scroll wheel feel great, even though it is wayy to far back on the mouse. Side buttons are positioned a little meh to be honest. You kind of have to take your entire thumb off of the mouse to reach them.


I thought about this just this afternoon, the wheel is too far backwards and this makes the dpi switch too far back too. The dpi switch also has a weird shape so you have to press it even further backwards than would be necessary otherwise. The side buttons could easily be made a bit bigger, 3 mm would have made world of difference and would't have any effect on the design.
Does anybody have any experience with grip-tape.
Found this soft rubber tape:
http://www.sailboats.co.uk/psp-soft-grip-tape-50mm-x-4m


----------



## Melan

Mouse bungee will fix it. Or more ghetto solution, taping it to the monitor or something.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Your question is super strange. The shapes and the way you grip the two mice couldn't be more different.


Yeah sorry, completely misphrased what I wanted to say. Does the g303 need to be held the same way as the deathadder? If not, is it really going to matter?


----------



## Atavax

mine finally arrived! First impressions: glide is a lot better, i don't feel the need to peel off the sensor skates. Cable is not as good as i remember the g502's, not sure if its better or worse then the g302's cable yet. I'm not big into aesthetics, but I like the ability to turn off the side lights and keep the light for the G. The honeycomb aesthetic was really annoying me, and now the sides look solid black.


----------



## AnimalK

I got mine today as well.

The logitech gaming software I have installed won't recognize it.
I downloaded the version for win8.1 x64 and it refuses to install saying that my system is not supported.

First impressions:
Tracking is much smoother and less raw than the g302. The main left click doesn't stick when you push down hard unlike both my g302.
The g303 wobbles much less thanks to its new feet. The new chord is thicker but much more compliant and less obstructive.

I'm now going to spend some time gaming with it.


----------



## xmr1

Could anyone tell me the DPI/polling rates on the factory profiles? Mine gets here tomorrow and wondering whether I need to bother installing the software or not.


----------



## lookitdisnub

400 800 1600 3200


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lookitdisnub*
> 
> 400 800 1600 3200


Thanks. 1000hz I assume?


----------



## Melan

Yes.


----------



## Abacus1234

I have noticed that this mouse does not have a very stable polling rate compared to most others, including g302. At the 1000hz setting, I got random drops to single digit hz even when the mouse was in constant motion. I checked this against some other mice to make sure it wasn't happening when I changed direction or something, and none of those mice showed the same behavior. So there is something going on making 1000hz less stable. Mouserate showed the average at 955hz, while the g302 showed an average of 989hz over the same amount of time.

I know of some other mice that had polling issues fixed at some point, so maybe that is something they will look into.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I downloaded the version for win8.1 x64 and it refuses to install saying that my system is not supported.


The one that was released yesterday? I had one installed from G402 from before, and it didn't recognize it at first either. Received a firmware update as soon as I reconnected it after the software asked me to do so.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> The one that was released yesterday? I had one installed from G402 from before, and it didn't recognize it at first either. Received a firmware update as soon as I reconnected it after the software asked me to do so.


I figured it out. There was a glitch in the website that gave me the 32-bit version instead of the 64-bit version.

All is fine now.


----------



## Atavax

this is basically what i'm doing right now


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abacus1234*
> 
> I have noticed that this mouse does not have a very stable polling rate compared to most others, including g302. At the 1000hz setting, I got random drops to single digit hz even when the mouse was in constant motion. I checked this against some other mice to make sure it wasn't happening when I changed direction or something, and none of those mice showed the same behavior. So there is something going on making 1000hz less stable. Mouserate showed the average at 955hz, while the g302 showed an average of 989hz over the same amount of time.
> 
> I know of some other mice that had polling issues fixed at some point, so maybe that is something they will look into.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/700_20#post_23626748
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/700_20#post_23626927
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/720_20#post_23627171
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/840_20#post_23636798
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/840_20#post_23636873
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/860_20#post_23636973
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/860_20#post_23637116

On March 8th I asked metal571 to do some tests, but he hasn't done so.

Quote:


> When I was looking at Ino's gallery I see in some pictures a "drop out" in polling similar to older Zowie mice, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as Zowie mice. It's really quick then recovers. When I saw that video review on YouTube the polling rate looked to drop very quickly like the Mouse Tester images. I know that the program can show erroneous results if you don't use it right. Which is why I asked for someone to test it to see if that was the case. Of course people start throwing words around to defend Logitech's honor.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/9KJWcgm.png
> http://i.imgur.com/ywBfrCA.png
> http://i.imgur.com/6B3gntO.png
> http://i.imgur.com/X0LpR96.png
> http://i.imgur.com/rz0mL96.png
> http://i.imgur.com/H84OZMz.png
> 
> Can you test to see if there is in fact a "drop out" occurring? Both at 500Hz and 1000Hz.
> 
> Do you see on the graphs, from Ino's gallery, there is a strange gap occurring once or twice? This picture shows it best: *http://i.imgur.com/H84OZMz.png*


----------



## Abacus1234

Seems to me like that somewhat corroborates what I'm seeing.


----------



## SightUp

People seem to reporting that the LOD on this mouse is to low. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we want a LOD?


----------



## Brightmist

We do want a low LOD. But when the LOD is under 0.5 millimeters or even maybe lower, it stops tracking as you're lifting the mouse so you can't properly do fast swipes that it makes the mouse literally unusable for you.
It's sad that you can't finetune LOD on LGS but only have the ability to use the extremely low LOD or factory defaults.

My X5 also has an extremely low LOD that made it unusable for me but you can finetune it on EVGA software (high/med/low) which is a godsend.


----------



## SightUp

And where do you find the LOD? Via drivers? Which menu?


----------



## Brightmist

Surface Tuning adjusts LOD on LGS for Logitech Mice as I understand.


----------



## marsCS

The factory default LOD is a little higher than what the FK1/FK2 has. After tuning it to the QCK Heavy it feels pretty much the same as the Zowie's.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marsCS*
> 
> The factory default LOD is a little higher than what the FK1/FK2 has. After tuning it to the QCK Heavy it feels pretty much the same as the Zowie's.


If it's higher than an fk1/2 then it's definitely not "0.5mm or lower" as Brightmist was stating. Having a lod that tracks while I'm lifting to swipe sounds awful to me personally. I want as low as possible (typically in the 1mm range), I don't want the cursor bouncing when I lift. But that's just me, different strokes I suppose.

But I agree that they should allow folks to customize the LOD to their liking.


----------



## AnimalK

After doing Surface a Tuning on my Qck Heavy I allso have very low Zowie-like LOD.

Is the surface tuning stored on the mouse or in LGS?


----------



## semantics

If it stays if you turn off LGS it's in the mouse. Pretty sure it's in the mouse because you can do surface tuning while in on-board mode instead of software mode.


----------



## marsCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> If it's higher than an fk1/2 then it's definitely not "0.5mm or lower" as Brightmist was stating. Having a lod that tracks while I'm lifting to swipe sounds awful to me personally. I want as low as possible (typically in the 1mm range), I don't want the cursor bouncing when I lift. But that's just me, different strokes I suppose.
> 
> But I agree that they should allow folks to customize the LOD to their liking.


Oh totally, and sorry I didn't mean to sound like the FK1/2 had a LOD of .5mm, it was more just an observation about the factory default LOD.

Speaking of .5mm LOD, I just tried the G440 LOD on the QCK Heavy and it was so low I had to push the mouse into the pad to get it to track.


----------



## hslayer

How can I uninstall LGS?


----------



## Melan

Same as any other program. Control panel, program and features, select lgs and uninstall.


----------



## hslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Same as any other program. Control panel, program and features, select lgs and uninstall.


but the problem is, I dont see it on the list


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hslayer*
> 
> but the problem is, I dont see it on the list


Try to run the setup exe again and see what happens.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> Not generally true.


Yes, always true. Friction is a relationship of surface area and pressure (in this case, weight). As surface area of the feet increases, the pressure per sq mm decreases. As surface area decreases, the pressure per sq mm increases. It will always balance out.

Unless you also add weight to the mouse at the same time, bigger mouse feet will not increase friction.


----------



## Melan

Try with ccleaner


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> My thoughts exactly. I thought it would feel a lot more lighter than my G402 since the weight is 20G less, but it's does not feel like a big difference.
> One of the side buttons is actually hard to find and press, especially Mouse4 (the one farther away from you) because it's a bit too slim.
> 
> The LOD after tuning is very low, too low if you ask me. Lower than Zowie mice. Less than 1CD for sure and for some strange reason I felt my head was spinning when I was doing flicks but lifting the mouse stopped the movement in game. Using the factory default and it's about 1CD. My mouse pad is a brand new Func F10.s.
> 
> The cable is much better than the G402. I don't know what they were thinking including that tense stiff cable. Even with my Armadillo2, I had to mess around a lot to get it working for the G402. The G303 cable is perfect.
> 
> In comparison to CM Spawn, I would say that the circular shape of the mouse makes me feel like I'm gripping a tennis ball and the resting of the index finger does not seem like an issue.


Could you please share more about your experiences between the CM Spawn and the Logitech G303? Maybe some screenshots showing how you hold both mice. Thanks!


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Could you please share more about your experiences between the CM Spawn and the Logitech G303? Maybe some screenshots showing how you hold both mice. Thanks!


I can't include Spawn pictures because I sold off the mouse to a friend after I bought the G402. Have you ever used a Razer Samosa? It's similar to that but more rounded in the back. I can post pictures of holding the G303 after I few days, I'm away from home till the weekend.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> If it's higher than an fk1/2 then it's definitely not "0.5mm or lower" as Brightmist was stating. Having a lod that tracks while I'm lifting to swipe sounds awful to me personally. I want as low as possible (typically in the 1mm range), I don't want the cursor bouncing when I lift. But that's just me, different strokes I suppose.
> 
> But I agree that they should allow folks to customize the LOD to their liking.


It's lower than a Zowie LOD by default and after surface tuning I'm not even sure if there is a measurable LOD. I felt slightly nauseous after tuning it and doing fast swipes and slightly lifting it stopped turning in game. Restored it to default and it's running perfectly fine. I prefer a low LOD too, never thought LOD could get low enough for me to dislike it.

I use a Func Surface F.10, And using the Logitech pad presets worked fine too, LOD was slightly higher than pre-tuning but lower than default.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I can't include Spawn pictures because I sold off the mouse to a friend after I bought the G402. Have you ever used a Razer Samosa? It's similar to that but more rounded in the back. I can post pictures of holding the G303 after I few days, I'm away from home till the weekend.


I haven't tried the Razer Samosa, but my local Best Buy probably carries that and the Logitech G302. I'll probably stop by and try it myself to see how it feels. I'm having trouble imagining what the talk about the rounded back means or feels. My CM Spawn still feels good coming back to it after 6 months, but the coating feels really bad now. I wish there were more mice shaped like the Spawn/Xornet with newer sensors.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> I haven't tried the Razer Samosa, but my local Best Buy probably carries that and the Logitech G302. I'll probably stop by and try it myself to see how it feels. I'm having trouble imagining what the talk about the rounded back means or feels. My CM Spawn still feels good coming back to it after 6 months, but the coating feels really bad now. I wish there were more mice shaped like the Spawn/Xornet with newer sensors.


lol I actually did the same with the 302 at BestBuy. The reason I got the 402 instead is because the 302 failed after 3m/s which I hit occasionally in CSGO especially when dodging flashes. And of course, after the G402's return period expires, the G303 is announced and released.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> lol I actually did the same with the 302 at BestBuy. The reason I got the 402 instead is because the 302 failed after 3m/s which I hit occasionally in CSGO especially when dodging flashes. And of course, after the G402's return period expires, the G303 is announced and released.


So how do you like the G402 vs. G303? I actually tried the G502 when I was mouse hunting last summer. I loved a lot of things about it, but the killer was the weight and scroll wheel.


----------



## Ickz

Does anyone's lmb feel slightly easier to press than the rmb? Wondering if this was a "feature" or something or if it's just random manufacturing thing.


----------



## Falkentyne

At least on G502, You can stick two sets of mouse feet (stacked) on top of each other (0.6 mm x 2) and it will still track. Seems (at firsT) to lower the max speed to 5m/s, but even that's faster than any human can realistically reach. I was able to reach 5.2 m/s with super hard and painful effort with puretrak talent tuning and 0.6mm x 2 mouse feet stacked of hotline games competition feet.

*edit*
Just tested my other g502 with only one stack (0.6mm x 1) of hotline games mouse feet so normal LOD.
could only reach 5.26 m/s.

Then retested the 2 stack one (1.2mm of mouse feet LED) and got 5.13 m/s. Both were me moving my arm faster than my body's cababilities.
So yeah at least on g502, if you ever have problems with part of the mouse ever touching the pad, you can stick 2 stacks of feet on, and should work ok with factory default tuning (I was able to tune it to my puretrak talent too with no problems). So the only issue with double stacking feet is making sure you keep accurate tarcking if anything ever gets between the sensor or the surface gets dirty somehow.

Didn't see in the end, any difference in max PCS. I think you need a machine to ever reach 7.62 ...no human can reach that physically.

You guys are good to go.

And yeah low LOD is good as long as you keep tracking, and super fast swipes are flawless. Why would you want a mouse to track AFTER you lift it up the pad, anyway? And you can't get lower LOD than you would by stacking two 0.6 mm sets of feet on


----------



## Aventadoor

Looks like I wont get the G303 before in April









EDIT: I wont wait that long so I just ordered directly from Logitech instead...


----------



## Crizzl

How exactly do you move your arm faster than your body's capabilities? Should that not be impossible by definition?


----------



## Sencha

After a couple more hours of gaming everything has just clicked with this mouse. Its superb!


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> Does anyone's lmb feel slightly easier to press than the rmb? Wondering if this was a "feature" or something or if it's just random manufacturing thing.


Switched my hands to test this...

Nope.

Just a "mindblow" basically, your brain and muscle memory is more adapted to clicking with your index finger, creating a "false" sense probably.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah my right click is a little more tactile and louder. There's not a lot in it but In th twenty or something mice I've owned there's always a slight difference in button feel and sound.


----------



## SightUp

When do you think that local stores like Best Buy might start carrying this mouse?


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> When do you think that local stores like Best Buy might start carrying this mouse?


I was surprised it wasn't already. When I saw that the release date was a Sunday, I figured it was because they wanted to make it available in retail stores at the start of their weeks.


----------



## Nunex

Can't find it anywhere in no store here in Portugal.

I ordered it from the country offical distributor, but it hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## Cyro999

Still not in UK


----------



## popups

So no one else is going to test their G303 for this potential issue?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1360_20#post_23679626

What's up with that? There is at least 5 of you with the mouse.


----------



## Imprecision

I got one yesterday and spent most of the day with it, I'll test/mini-review it in a couple hours when I get home.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> So no one else is going to test their G303 for this potential issue?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1360_20#post_23679626
> 
> What's up with that? There is at least 5 of you with the mouse.


Not sure what to test exactly, but mouserate looks the same between my g303 and EC2-A. I ran mousetester and just did a slowish swipe and then plotted the interval of both and they both just bounce around right at 1ms with a few outcasts but neither one looking better than the other.


----------



## Imprecision

Mouserate is kind of dated now IMO, you can use the report rate graph in Mousetester to get results that are much easier to assess at a glance than that little window with the string of numbers in it.


----------



## Sencha

Seem to be getting an extra scroll every so often. I have Primary and Secondary bound to mouse up & down. And after a few scrolls one way and then another I sometimes get an extra scroll after I have let go of the wheel. Anyone else? Thinking about RMA. Its a small issue but just got me killed so kind of thinking it may be worth trying another.


----------



## qsxcv

the wheel in the g302 always felt a bit inconsistent to me. i.e. the point at which it registers as a scroll up/down isn't consistent. if i rotate the wheel slowly enough, i could make it not register at all.


----------



## Sencha

Ahh right....I can do the same with this. If I go up and down and then slowly very slowly move to the next notch I can make it not register. I may think twice about RMA then.

TBH it doesnt add an extra scroll in game that often but is annoying when it does. It did it more at yesterday and only a couple of times today. May see if it breaks in. Thanks for the info though.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> So no one else is going to test their G303 for this potential issue?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1360_20#post_23679626
> 
> What's up with that? There is at least 5 of you with the mouse.


At 500hz, it's really stable


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Ahh right....I can do the same with this. If I go up and down and then slowly very slowly move to the next notch I can make it not register. I may think twice about RMA then.
> 
> TBH it doesnt add an extra scroll in game that often but is annoying when it does. It did it more at yesterday and only a couple of times today. May see if it breaks in. Thanks for the info though.


Sounds like the way the light is broken by the spokes from the wheel is likely the issue. The same thing happens with the Zowie mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> At 500hz, it's really stable


Are you constantly moving the mouse for a long duration to see if there is a drop. Drops don't happen often unless there is a major issue. You might see 1 or 2 within a long swipe, that is if you see any at all.

Did you update your firmware recently?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> So no one else is going to test their G303 for this potential issue?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1360_20#post_23679626
> 
> What's up with that? There is at least 5 of you with the mouse.


give me instructions for how you want it to be tested, and i'll test it.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Sounds like the way the light is broken by the spokes from the wheel is likely the issue. The same thing happens with the Zowie mice.
> Are you constantly moving the mouse for a long duration to see if there is a drop. Drops don't happen often unless there is a major issue. You might see 1 or 2 within a long swipe, that is if you see any at all.
> 
> Did you update your firmware recently?


Yeah I'm feeling its probably a design flaw rather then my actual mouse. And yes my Zowie missed scrolls sometimes. That never bothered me by an extra scroll in game has me changing back from my -primary. It's almost like there's tension of the wheel and it occasionally pulls back a notch. Just played again for the last 30 mins with no issue.


----------



## pinobot

Yes, i have this probem too with the scrollwheel.
It goes 'over the hump' and sometimes when you've scrolling through a webpage it just stopped on top of the hump, the next time you touch the wheel it either moves up or downs a notch.
The surface is humps like: ∩∩∩∩∩
I would like: ΛΛΛΛΛ


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Yes, i have this probem too with the scrollwheel.
> It goes 'over the hump' and sometimes when you've scrolling through a webpage it just stopped on top of the hump, the next time you touch the wheel it either moves up or downs a notch.
> The surface is humps like: ∩∩∩∩∩
> I would like: ΛΛΛΛΛ


Yeah that's exactly it! just had it happen again in game. Oh well thanks for letting me know. Saves an RMA!


----------



## Imprecision

Now that I've had at least a day with it, here are my impressions:

*Sensor:* Feels fine, appropriately snappy and responsive, doesn't malfunction at any speed I can reach, etc. I don't have superhuman perceptions but I thought the DA 2013 (with Synapse) was a bit laggy and I don't think this is laggy. I'm sure there is a whole range from donkey cursor to clown cursor to god cursor between DA 2013 w/ Synapse and 'fine' but take what you will from my assessment.

*Shape:* Surprisingly comfortable. The way my thumb and pinky pinch slightly inwards when I grip the mouse curls the base of my palm inwards, making a natural 'pocket' where the thin rear of the G303 fits really nicely. I hate to disappoint the naysayers but there may have been an actual ergonomist involved in the mouse shell. The inward sloping front lets the thumb grip it while in a very natural, relaxed posture. The pinky similarly is able to sit along the right side very naturally but the front becomes so thin that the longer ring finger doesn't really have a natural place to sit. I find myself most comfortable with 3 fingers on top of the mouse, where normally I have 2, ring and pinky both gripping the right side. Vertically the area of the mouse you would grip is \_/ shaped (like the Zowie FK etc.) so it's very easy to lift with minimal pressure. It could stand to be a bit lighter, but the Ninox Aurora spoiled me that way.

*Buttons:* M1 and M2 are probably the best buttons on any mouse I've ever used. They click as easily and lightly as any 20M Omrons but they have that crisp, resilient feel of Huanos. They make the G502 buttons feel mushy by comparison! If you hunt for pre-travel you can find some (less than 1mm) by pressing the very front edge of the switch, but at least where _my_ fingers naturally sit there is none. M3, M4, M5 are nothing special, and in my opinion M4 and M5 should be wider or located further down, as I need to move my thumb slightly to activate them.

*Wheel:* The scroll wheel has a nice notched feeling similar to the newer Zowie mice but with more defined stops, and a pleasant, rubbery texture. If you have 3 fingers atop the mouse you will find it in a good position, but if you only have 2 fingers atop the mouse I think you will find it's located slightly too far back.

*Cable:* The cable is thick and braided but flexible, and Logitech wisely chose to ship it loosely wrapped instead of bundled so it doesn't arrive already kinked and tangled to **** . The only issue I have is it sometimes gets caught on the rough edges of my Hayate, so until I find a workaround (someone mentioned scotch tape?) I'm using it on a CM Swift-RX I won in a twitter contest which has round, stitched edges that don't catch the cable. _Side note, that pad's quite soft, smooth and low friction itself, and I haven't seen it for sale but if CM makes it cheap it could be a decent Hayate alternative for those not crazy enough to shill out $40+._ Despite its thickness it's not too heavy, and besides the Artisan pad issue I haven't noticed any resistance despite not using a bungee or anything similar.

_Edit: I found a workaround, that being pushing my monitors together and throwing the cable over the top between them. I'll take my MacArthur money in a lump sum, thanks._

*Polling Stability:* I swiped the mouse slowly back and forth for a while, then plotted. Looks pretty stable to me.
*500 hz*



*1000 hz*


*Overall Impressions:* While I still feel there is room for improvement in the ergonomics, specifically in the right side (which would make it 'almost-ambidextrous' but why worry about that when there are already only side buttons for righties) and in the placements of M4, M5 and the wheel, the G303 is still the most comfortable functional mouse I've used to date and has earned its place as my new daily driver.

*TL;DR:* You can play video games with it, 8/10 - IGN


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> give me instructions for how you want it to be tested, and i'll test it.


You can use either Mouse Tester or one of those polling rate checkers. Move the mouse at a fast, constant rate, for a long swipe. Do that multiple times. If there is any issues you will eventually see the drops -- as you can see in Ino's Mouse Tester graphs.

Zowie mice seem to have issues when moving to he right. Not sure about the G302/3 as I never had one.


----------



## xmr1

Initial impressions: Shape awkward but not as bad as it looked and will get more used to it. Clicks and sensor feel as good as advertised. Weight and size are about the best you can hope for in today's market. Scroll wheel a bit too far back and thumb buttons a bit too far forward for my hand size and grip. Combination of size/weight/sensor has me consistently hitting highlight shots that were harder to come by with other mice. Planned on returning before it arrived but will likely keep as main mouse until a better small mouse comes out (3366 g9x?).


----------



## Rofd

I use g9x right now and after years of using it i must admit g9x have ****ty shape for fps. Best mouse in terms of shape is Steelseries Kinzu but that mouse have ****ty sensor tho...


----------



## TriviumKM

Polling on mine is rock stable; no drops when doing circles with constant motion.

First swipe at 800 CPI and 1000hz:


----------



## Atavax

pretty solid for me doing circles, this is the worst i could get it, with fast swipes but look at the velocity


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> *Polling Stability:* I swiped the mouse slowly back and forth for a while, then plotted. Looks pretty stable to me.
> *500 hz*
> 
> 
> 
> *1000 hz*


WAT THIS IS STABLE?

this is my wmo at 1000hz


and i got roughly the same with my g302


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> pretty solid for me doing circles, this is the worst i could get it, with fast swipes but look at the velocity


Your graph looks similar to Ino's graphs. I am not sure if that is normal. Also, the velocity is that high because there was an error causing a spike on the graph, most likely because of the MCU.

With my Zowie mice I have similar occurrences when moving to the right, there is a massive drop occurring, then a spike (which appears in Mouse Tester as a single square at very high velocity). It happens with the AM and FK. I need to test it on another computer to verify the behavior.



Spoiler: Atavax:









Spoiler: Ino:


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> WAT THIS IS STABLE?
> 
> this is my wmo at 1000hz
> 
> 
> and i got roughly the same with my g302


Look at the scale on your y-axis there... You need to drop the first couple points of data as you're just beginning to move the mouse, and the axes will autoadjust to numbers that make more sense. The first few samples as you begin to move (or after you stop moving) are always sent less frequently.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Your graph looks similar to Ino's graphs. I am not sure if that is normal. Also, the velocity is that high because there was an error causing a spike on the graph, most likely because of the MCU.
> 
> With my Zowie mice I have similar occurrences when moving to the right. There is a massive drop occurring, then a spike (which appears in Mouse Tester as a single square at very high velocity). It happened with the AM and FK. I need to test it on another computer to verify the behavior.


A low velocity reading followed by a high one will produce what looks like a gap, whether or not there is a horizontal distance between those points (large time interval between samples) which is what I *think* you're looking for? You want to use the reports vs time graph for that, as I did in my post.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> A low velocity reading followed by a high one will produce what looks like a gap, whether or not there is a horizontal distance between those points (large time interval between samples) which is what I *think* you're looking for? You want to use the reports vs time graph for that, as I did in my post.


That is possible. Although, it does look like it is occurring at about the same time period within a swipe from two different mice, two different computers and two different humans.

To bad I don't have the mouse to check myself. I have to rely on you guys to do the test.

So you should use the Interval vs Time option? That looks like the better thing to use while looking for polling drops/spikes. My Zowie shows at least 1 per swipe.


----------



## Abacus1234

I'm just saying that if you use anything at all that checks polling rate, you can go back and look at the number over time and see clear instances of the polling rate falling off drastically.


----------



## Atavax

so some more pics of graphs because popups found my first one interesting. first 2 are graphs from trying to do circles at a fairly constant speed. Last one is a fast swipe where i'm not going balls to the wall. Also, this is with the recent firmware update if anyone was wondering. And with Quake mouse accel driver http://accel.drok-radnik.com/


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That is possible. Although, it does look like it is occurring at about the same time period within a swipe from two different mice, two different computers and two different humans.
> 
> To bad I don't have the mouse to check myself. I have to rely on you guys to do the test.
> 
> So you should use the Interval vs Time option? That looks like the better thing to use while looking for polling drops/spikes. My Zowie shows at least 1 per swipe.


Yes, I think that's best -- and like Atavax, doing fairly smooth swipes back and forth showed me roughly the nominal polling rate with deviations of +/- 20% and occasionally as much as +/- 30%. I never had polling rate deviations even as much as 1ms, so I'm not too worried.

Which Zowie mice are affected? I could test a FK1 for you as it's sitting neglected next to my Aurora now


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so some more pics of graphs because popups found my first one interesting. first 2 are graphs from trying to do circles at a fairly constant speed. Last one is a fast swipe where i'm not going balls to the wall.


I think it is best to test each direction separately with a smooth long swipe that is fast enough to reach the polling limit. I don't think circles, or max velocity swipes, are the best way to test.

It seems the Interval vs Time option is the easiest graph to spot stuff.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> Yes, I think that's best -- and like Atavax, doing fairly smooth swipes back and forth showed me roughly the nominal polling rate with deviations of +/- 20% and occasionally as much as +/- 30%. I never had polling rate deviations even as much as 1ms, so I'm not too worried.
> 
> Which Zowie mice are affected? I could test a FK1 for you as it's sitting neglected next to my Aurora now


I have the older 3090 Zowie mice before they messed with the MCU and used an infrered LED. The newer Zowie mice with the infrared LED and the mice with the 3310 have different performance.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> Look at the scale on your y-axis there... You need to drop the first couple points of data as you're just beginning to move the mouse, and the axes will autoadjust to numbers that make more sense. The first few samples as you begin to move (or after you stop moving) are always sent less frequently.


k and look


my fluctuations are in the microsecond range......

your and atavax's plots are like 1ms +- 0.1ms

*** are we doing differently???

and this is what mousemovementrecorder shows:









is it unusual to have polling this stable?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think it is best to test each direction with a smooth long swipe that is fast enough to reach the polling limit. I don't think circles are the best way to test or max velocity swipes.


any idea how fast you think the min speed needed is?


----------



## kifkiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> Now that I've had at least a day with it, here are my impressions:
> 
> *Shape:* Surprisingly comfortable. The way my thumb and pinky pinch slightly inwards when I grip the mouse curls the base of my palm inwards, making a natural 'pocket' where the thin rear of the G303 fits really nicely. I hate to disappoint the naysayers but there may have been an actual ergonomist involved in the mouse shell. The inward sloping front lets the thumb grip it while in a very natural, relaxed posture. The pinky similarly is able to sit along the right side very naturally but the front becomes so thin that the longer ring finger doesn't really have a natural place to sit. I find myself most comfortable with 3 fingers on top of the mouse, where normally I have 2, ring and pinky both gripping the right side. Vertically the area of the mouse you would grip is \_/ shaped (like the Zowie FK etc.) so it's very easy to lift with minimal pressure. It could stand to be a bit lighter, but the Ninox Aurora spoiled me that way.


You pretty much nailed my thoughts on the mouse shape here.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> any idea how fast you think the min speed needed is?


not much, it's just polling rate divided by dpi which is 2.5 inches/second for 1000hz,400dpi


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> any idea how fast you think the min speed needed is?


I don't know. That is what testing is for. It might not happen at lower speeds, it might happen at faster speeds, it might not happen during short duration movements, it might happen during long duration movements.

Using Velocity vs Time and Interval vs Time helps spotting the small things that could be hard to see when just using 1 option. That is if there isn't a major error during that particular test.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> k and look
> 
> my fluctuations are in the microsecond range......
> 
> your and atavax's plots are like 1ms +- 0.1ms
> 
> *** are we doing differently???
> 
> and this is what mousemovementrecorder shows:
> 
> is it unusual to have polling this stable?


Can you check 500Hz and 1000Hz with Mouse Rate Checker instead of Mouse Movement Recorder? I don't think Mouse Movement Recorder is accurate for polling.


----------



## Atavax

ok, to try to get it as flat of a velocity as possible with my limited space, i raised the dpi to 10,000 so that i could have a low velocity

2 graphs from the same go, 1 showing my velocity, the other showing the intervals


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> is it unusual to have polling this stable?


It's unusual, but not obscenely so. Was that with the overclocked WMO or with the G302?


----------



## qsxcv

ninox aurora at 500hz


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> It's unusual, but not obscenely so. Was that with the overclocked WMO or with the G302?


overclocked wmo, but i checked a few weeks back and the g302 was just as stable.

my g303 arrives tomorrow and i'll see how it is on my computer


----------



## Atavax

yeah, there are so many things that it could be really... best to take someone and a system that we know gets consistent with the right mice, and then compare the g303 to it.


----------



## Imprecision

I'm guessing it's something to do with my system, as I tried several other mice and all looked basically the same as my g303, including the Ninox Aurora at 500hz. I'm guessing it's a Win 8.1 thing (which I use) whereas some google searching found some other people reporting that same kind of +/-1hz stability on Win7 systems.

Edit: Here, somehow I managed to produce an obscenely consistent polling rate for a few reports only, and then the rest was the usual.



And here is a MMR log:


----------



## AnimalK

Here are my results:

*500Hz:*


*1000Hz:*


----------



## DTrinh09

I just picked up the Logitech G302 from Best Buy to try the shape. I'll post impressions later and decide whether I will return this and get the G303.


----------



## popups

Here is two examples of what happens when I move my FK (the original release version) to the right.

500Hz @ ~2560 CPI (the native step):


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Here is two examples of what happens when I move my FK (the original release version) to the right.
> -snip-


That does look like a problem, yes. I only get drops in report rate like that when I stop moving the mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> That does look like a problem, yes. I only get drops in report rate like that when I stop moving the mouse.


It seems to only happen when I move the mouse to the right. It doesn't seem to occur when moving the mouse to the left, up or down. Strangely it only happens when when I am moving to the right, which is very bad for a right hand player. When looking at the Velocity vs Time graph, that point of time shows a similar gap as some of the G303 graphs posted show. However, the Zowie graphs make it very difficult to notice because they are very erratic, as you see in the Interval vs Time graphs I posted.


----------



## DTrinh09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the wheel in the g302 always felt a bit inconsistent to me. i.e. the point at which it registers as a scroll up/down isn't consistent. if i rotate the wheel slowly enough, i could make it not register at all.


I just want to add that I can reproduce these results too. Bummer, because my initial impressions of the scroll wheel was that it felt good. That said, it only happens if I do it very slowly and repeatedly and only then it might happen 1/10 or 1/20 times. In real world use (browser and gaming), I don't see this being problematic. Does anyone have the same issue with the G303?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> I just want to add that I can reproduce these results too. Bummer, because my initial impressions of the scroll wheel was that it felt good. That said, it only happens if I do it very slowly and repeatedly and only then it might happen 1/10 or 1/20 times. In real world use (browser and gaming), I don't see this being problematic. Does anyone have the same issue with the G303?


The feedback from the wheel is separate to the actual scroll function. It's similar to the Zowie design. This type of design can function independently from the feedback. Meaning, you could remove the spring and it will still register scrolls, which Logitech does with the G502 to create the "free scroll" feature. If they mess up the "spokes" of the wheel there can be scroll actuation issues like Zowie mice have. The benefit using an optical encoder is the fact it will last beyond the wheels feedback. Slowly moving the wheel can point out an error in a design that is using such a feedback system and optical encoder.

_Notice how the Logitech wheel has twice the "spokes" than feedback notches?_

Logitech:




Zowie/Kingsis:


----------



## qsxcv

yea i figured it was related to the optical encoder, but i think it's also to do with the feeling of the notches as mentioned here
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> The surface is humps like: ∩∩∩∩∩
> I would like: ΛΛΛΛΛ


since it feels still feels decent with the g100s wheel.


----------



## DTrinh09

Does anyone have problems with either the G302 or G303 with mouse bungees? I'm using the CM Storm Skorpion (these names...) and the mouse is so light that when let go, there is enough force in the wire to push the mouse. I hope that makes sense. Is this fixed with the braided cable on the G303?


----------



## semantics

Those are picture of the 'hyper"/"free" scroll wheels from logitech the G303 doesn't have one of those dual mode wheels.


----------



## Ickz

So after playing with the mouse since Monday, I have to say it's super comfortable. I, like everyone else, thought it would be really awkward, but I think there might actually be a reason behind the shell design.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Those are picture of the 'hyper"/"free" scroll wheels from logitech the G303 doesn't have one of those dual mode wheels.


Yes, the G302/3 and G402 do not have free scroll. That point is irrelevant because I am referring to their entire design philosophy for their optical encoder wheels.

Similar philosophy without the free scroll:


----------



## Abacus1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> So after playing with the mouse since Monday, I have to say it's super comfortable. I, like everyone else, thought it would be really awkward, but I think there might actually be a reason behind the shell design.


I have really liked it since the beginning. I think those who were violently opposed to the shape were just very outspoken.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Does anyone have problems with either the G302 or G303 with mouse bungees? I'm using the CM Storm Skorpion (these names...) and the mouse is so light that when let go, there is enough force in the wire to push the mouse. I hope that makes sense. Is this fixed with the braided cable on the G303?


I get what you are saying, it happens to an extent in the G303 if the mouse is too close to the bungee. But it's not as problematic as it is with the G402.


----------



## pinobot

You can add G-shift to the mouse but it's pretty much useless. You lose one easy to press buttton to effectively gain one more button. Let's say you use the dpi button as G-shift button, you can't use left or right click and it's almost physically impossible to use the middle mouse button so you're left with the thumb buttons from which the front one is hard to reach. If you use a thumb button as G-shift you can't reach the other thumb button so only the dpi and middle mouse button are left.








If you use the internal memory without the software and want to switch between the 3 profiles then you have to program one button to become the profile button. It would have been better if a profile button was on the bottom of the mouse like so many other mice.
There is no profile or dpi indication on the mouse, you can change the color of the mouse for different profiles but then you'll have to remember which one is which. Maybe adding an on screen display of settings during gaming would be nice?


----------



## offshell

I had the mouse glitch on me once earlier where in game where it had me looking up and spinning extremely fast. like it was being swiped up diagonally. I couldn't pull the mouse back down at all and had to unplug it. After that it was fine again just hoping that doesn't become regular.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I had the mouse glitch on me once earlier where in game where it had me looking up and spinning extremely fast. like it was being swiped up diagonally. I couldn't pull the mouse back down at all and had to unplug it. After that it was fine again just hoping that doesn't become regular.


Did you change the surface tuning from its default setting?


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Did you change the surface tuning from its default setting?


No, just installed the Logitech software, set dpi levels and played.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> I just want to add that I can reproduce these results too. Bummer, because my initial impressions of the scroll wheel was that it felt good. That said, it only happens if I do it very slowly and repeatedly and only then it might happen 1/10 or 1/20 times. In real world use (browser and gaming), I don't see this being problematic. Does anyone have the same issue with the G303?


Yes I do. And mine can register a miss scroll as well sometimes. Like it stops on the hump of the wheel point and then rocks off it. It's had me switching weapons in game by mistake. Like after I remove my finger from the wheel it will add an extra movement in../


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I had the mouse glitch on me once earlier where in game where it had me looking up and spinning extremely fast. like it was being swiped up diagonally. I couldn't pull the mouse back down at all and had to unplug it. After that it was fine again just hoping that doesn't become regular.


I've had that twice. I got it on a custom profile on the mouse surface so may go back to default. I though the second time it may have been dust. Mine can recover without unplugging


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> You can add G-shift to the mouse but it's pretty much useless. You lose one easy to press buttton to effectively gain one more button. Let's say you use the dpi button as G-shift button, you can't use left or right click and it's almost physically impossible to use the middle mouse button so you're left with the thumb buttons from which the front one is hard to reach. If you use a thumb button as G-shift you can't reach the other thumb button so only the dpi and middle mouse button are left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you use the internal memory without the software and want to switch between the 3 profiles then you have to program one button to become the profile button. It would have been better if a profile button was on the bottom of the mouse like so many other mice.
> There is no profile or dpi indication on the mouse, you can change the color of the mouse for different profiles but then you'll have to remember which one is which. Maybe adding an on screen display of settings during gaming would be nice?


I wouldn't want a screen or a button on the bottom.


----------



## Clyq

Got mine yesterday. I've had a Zowie FK, FK1, Roccat KPM, Mionix A7k/n7k and countless others (which i've returned) and I'm really liking this mouse. Pros/cons/neutral:
~ Shape is odd. I fully palm my mice and initially it was akward. After getting into a game and working up a sweat it was really easy to control the mouse, no discomfort..
+Spam clicking is so effortless.
+tracking, responsiveness, etc.. feels soooo good.
~Had to find a new sensitivity but it wasn't too much work. The size of the mouse, sensor, etc contribute to the change, although subtle.
- the only con is mb5 is practically impossible to click for me. You have to have some really long thumbs for it.
- Only 1 dpi button so you have to cycle through them until you reach the one you're looking for. Who cycles through dpi anyway?

I like it so much I'm ready to sell all my other mice. Too bad, this rep requirement


----------



## DTrinh09

Sorry, I know this has probably been answered already, but are the only differences between the G302 and G303:

1. Braided cable
2. Upgraded sensor
3. Extra mouse feet on sides
4. RGB lighting

Am I missing anything? Same omron switches?


----------



## MasterBash

Thats it.

However, a few people in this thread said the cable is still not good. I dont know why Logitech insist on using towing cables as mouse cords.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> Thats it.
> 
> However, a few people in this thread said the cable is still not good. I dont know why Logitech insist on using towing cables as mouse cords.


Looks like it is the same cable with a braid.









I think they use that cable because they had issues with splitting on their older cables; it appears that was the main reason for RMAs. So they took the safe route by using thicker and less flexible cable. I haven't seen the inside of their cables. I guess they just use a thick outer and nothing inside.


----------



## Clyq

I'm not sure if you're worried about a weight issue, or a drag issue, however, I have no problem with the cord. It's raised high enough so that where the mouse and cable meet- doesn't touch the mouse pad. On my Roccat KPM I can both hear and feel it touch my mouse pad and that feels bad, but even then it doesn't really "hinder" my playing. If it's that much of an issue, you can replace the cable with a different one you like. Ez Pz?


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> When do you think that local stores like Best Buy might start carrying this mouse?


Looks like not until late April........

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/578582059872083968


----------



## AnimalK

I am very happy with the cable because though it appears thick it is very flexible and unobstructive.


----------



## CPate

Everything I say anywhere ends up here somehow.


----------



## sonskusa

So just started noticing a problem with my 303. The mousewheel feels sticky, like I'm rolling the wheel against sand. Anyone else?

Only does this when I scroll up.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Everything I say anywhere ends up here somehow.


At least OCN members don't follow you around... or do they?


----------



## royalkilla408

Man. 148 pages already. Logitech with another hit.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Ofc not with a almost palmgrip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I for example use a fingertip grip and I want to hold the mouse where the edge on the curve is, which is impossible and makes it SUPER wide.
> So I have to abandon my fingertip grip and hold the mouse infront of the curve, which both hurts my hand and is horrible for me because I cannot use my fingers to adjust the cursor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Sorry, I know this has probably been answered already, but are the only differences between the G302 and G303:
> 
> 1. Braided cable
> 2. Upgraded sensor
> 3. Extra mouse feet on sides
> 4. RGB lighting
> 
> Am I missing anything? Same omron switches?


An undocumented change is that the m1 and m2 buttons (particularly m2) require much less force to activate...unfortunate because I thought they were perfect before...now I click by accident on occasion.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> First impressions:
> Tracking is much smoother and less raw than the g302.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Man. 148 pages already. Logitech with another hit.


More like another ridiculously overhyped logitech mouse.

It's very obvious from the mousetester graphs that they have not made any significant changes to the 3366 from the 502 to this 303, and thus the sensor is still no better than the KPM. And there are a number of mice with better sensors than the KPM.


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> More like another ridiculously overhyped logitech mouse.
> 
> It's very obvious from the mousetester graphs that they have not made any significant changes to the 3366 from the 502 to this 303, and thus the sensor is still no better than the KPM. And there are a number of mice with better sensors than the KPM.


You say it, so it must be right....


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> More like another ridiculously overhyped logitech mouse.
> 
> It's very obvious from the mousetester graphs that they have not made any significant changes to the 3366 from the 502 to this 303, and thus the sensor is still no better than the KPM. And there are a number of mice with better sensors than the KPM.


What changes were you hoping for and what mousetester graphs demonstrate that they have not been made?


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> More like another ridiculously overhyped logitech mouse.
> 
> It's very obvious from the mousetester graphs that they have not made any significant changes to the 3366 from the 502 to this 303, and thus the sensor is still no better than the KPM. And there are a number of mice with better sensors than the KPM.


Is there anything wrong with the 3366 from the g502?

From what I heard the sensor was the best thing about this mouse.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Is there anything wrong with the 3366 from the g502?


yea it's not a mlt04


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Is there anything wrong with the 3366 from the g502?
> 
> From what I heard the sensor was the best thing about this mouse.


Yup. Pure hype and marketing.

People have been linking to the top selling mice on Amazon and insinuating that since the 502 is there it means it's really good. But if you look at the other mice there, they're all fluff mice for casuals, just like the 502.

If Logitech is going to choose to market fluff mice to casuals, that's their call. What annoys me is the plethora of people on this forum and other forums (including ones dedicated to competitive gaming) who jump on the bandwagon without having a clue, just because they saw other clueless people say how great the mouse/sensor is.

We should be rewarding companies who actually try to make good mice that the community wants, rather than companies who come up with whatever they want, then market it as hard as they can.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> What changes were you hoping for and what mousetester graphs demonstrate that they have not been made?


The 3366 in the 502 performed worse than the KPM and a number of other mice. I was hoping for tweaks that would improve that. All the mousetester graphs that have been posted in this thread show that there were no significant changes in the tracking/sensor from the 502.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yea it's not a mlt04


DA 4g, FinalMouse, KPM, Aurora, and possibly even the Avior/naos7k after the firmware update, all perform better (precision/responsiveness/"rawness"/snappiness/etc.) than the 3366 in my experience.


----------



## qsxcv

yet aurora's mousetester plots has way more problems than what i've seen from the g502's..


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Everything I say anywhere ends up here somehow.


I've been checking retailer websites daily, decided it was time to try and find out.

Thanks for answering. Went ahead and ordered online.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> So just started noticing a problem with my 303. The mousewheel feels sticky, like I'm rolling the wheel against sand. Anyone else?
> 
> Only does this when I scroll up.


Maybe you got some hair stuck in it.

http://gamrs.co/forums/index.php?/topic/39204-the-why-and-how-of-cleaning-a-logitech-g5/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> An undocumented change is that the m1 and m2 buttons (particularly m2) require much less force to activate...unfortunate because I thought they were perfect before...now I click by accident on occasion.


Typical of mechanical switches. Welcome to manufacturing inconsistencies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Yup. Pure hype and marketing.
> 
> The 3366 in the 502 performed worse than the KPM and a number of other mice. I was hoping for tweaks that would improve that. All the mousetester graphs that have been posted in this thread show that there were no significant changes in the tracking/sensor from the 502.
> DA 4g, FinalMouse, KPM, Aurora, and possibly even the Avior/naos7k after the firmware update, all perform better (precision/responsiveness/"rawness"/snappiness/etc.) than the 3366 in my experience.


From what I know, the 3366 sensor is very good. However, you need a good MCU and coding to reach the potential of the sensor.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The 3366 in the 502 performed worse than the KPM and a number of other mice. I was hoping for tweaks that would improve that. All the mousetester graphs that have been posted in this thread show that there were no significant changes in the tracking/sensor from the 502.


This is as empty a non-answer you could have possibly given. I am very disappointed.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> So let him be angry and don't reply to his posts, while we enjoy the best sensor on the market


It would be nice if Logitech looked at their MCU performance. I think it could be better. Although, I say that as someone that has only seen other people's tests, I have yet to buy a Logitech product.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yet aurora's mousetester plots has way more problems than what i've seen from the g502's..


Many auroras need the 2nd pair of feet to be added on top in order to function correctly. And it is true that performance can vary from mouse to mouse, which is why I usually say "in my experience".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Nah he's just an intentional troll. Just ignore him.
> He trolls Logitech on purpose, just like he trolled on ESR.
> He has NO credibility here. and he'll never get any, anyway
> So let him be angry and don't reply to his posts, while we enjoy the best sensor on the market


Please enlighten us as to what your expertise, qualifications, and experience are that make you qualified to make such a statement.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> This is as empty a non-answer you could have possibly given. I am very disappointed.


I don't know how I could have been any more clear. What is it exactly you were hoping for?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I know, the 3366 sensor is very good. However, you need a good MCU and coding to reach the potential of the sensor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> *Although, I say that as someone that has only seen other people's tests, I have yet to buy a Logitech product.*


This is exactly what I'm talking about.

One guy (either clueless or to market the product) says "X mouse is the most amazing thing ever". Then people just repeat that.

In my experience most people (even a large percentage of competitive players) do not know how to properly evaluate sensor performance, and thus clueless people also let that marketing hype affect their judgement/evaluation.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Many auroras need the 2nd pair of feet to be added on top in order to function correctly. And it is true that performance can vary from mouse to mouse, which is why I usually say "in my experience".


this isn't related to the mouse feet
http://i.imgur.com/nWeB27G.png
http://i.imgur.com/MUCtjCr.png

the mcu has a hiccup every 15ms or so...

and this happens on both my auroras.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this isn't related to the mouse feet
> http://i.imgur.com/nWeB27G.png
> http://i.imgur.com/MUCtjCr.png
> 
> the mcu has a hiccup every 15ms or so...
> 
> and this happens on both my auroras.


In my experience there are definitely better sensors than the Aurora's, but whatever that issue represents in-game is less significant for me than the 3366's problems.


----------



## qsxcv

well what i mean is that what you see from mousetester doesn't always match what you specifically feel in each mouse


----------



## AnimalK

@MaximilianKohler

*Your post*
Quote:


> More like another ridiculously overhyped logitech mouse.
> 
> It's very obvious from the mousetester graphs that they have not made any significant changes to the 3366 from the 502 to this 303, and thus the sensor is still no better than the KPM. And there are a number of mice with better sensors than the KPM.


*My question to your post above*
Quote:


> What changes were you hoping for and what mousetester graphs demonstrate that they have not been made?


*Your non-answer to my question above*
Quote:


> The 3366 in the 502 performed worse than the KPM and a number of other mice. I was hoping for tweaks that would improve that. All the mousetester graphs that have been posted in this thread show that there were no significant changes in the tracking/sensor from the 502.


*My disappointment to your non-answer above*
Quote:


> This is as empty a non-answer you could have possibly given. I am very disappointed.


*Your confusion to my disappointment of your non-answer to my question above*
Quote:


> I don't know how I could have been any more clear. What is it exactly you were hoping for?


*I was hoping you'd answer my question above which could possibly give some credibility to what you are stating but you haven't.*


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about.
> 
> One guy (either clueless or to market the product) says "X mouse is the most amazing thing ever". Then people just repeat that.
> 
> In my experience most people (even a large percentage of competitive players) do not know how to properly evaluate sensor performance, and thus clueless people also let that marketing hype affect their judgement/evaluation.


Nice assumptions.

Even if I could talk about the sensor on the technical level, there is no evidence I can give to support the conversation like I could with other sensors. It would be a vague conversation, with no supporting evidence, with someone who has zero clue about it.

I am not going to spend $70 for a product I don't care to use just to satisfy you. Much like how you don't want to buy a mouse pad that is more than $10 or spend money on ESEA.

By the way, I also look at your tests and videos.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well what i mean is that what you see from mousetester doesn't always match what you specifically feel in each mouse


I agree. There are also things that aren't shown in mousetester - like the tracking inconsistencies in the FM.

What I was saying about the 3366 is that the 303's graphs match the 502's graphs pretty much identically, so it's pretty clear that nothing was improved/changed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> @MaximilianKohler
> 
> *Your post*
> *My question to your post above*
> *Your non-answer to my question above*
> *My disappointment to your non-answer above*
> *Your confusion to my disappointment of your non-answer to my question above*
> *I was hoping you'd answer my question above which could possibly give some credibility to what you are stating but you haven't.*


You:
"_What changes were you hoping for_"

Me:
"_The 3366 in the 502 performed worse than the KPM and a number of other mice. I was hoping for tweaks that would improve that._ "

You:
"_and what mousetester graphs demonstrate that they have not been made?_"

Me:
"_All the mousetester graphs that have been posted in this thread show that there were no significant changes in the tracking/sensor from the 502._"

I don't know how much clearer I can get than that. The 303 graphs posted in this thread look identical to the 502's graphs, which strongly suggests there were no major improvements/changes.

If you were expecting me to list specific technical tweaks I wanted them to do, then that is not possible because:

1. Their sensor's functions are private.
2. I'm not a mouse engineer.
3. I haven't tested every technical change that is possible to do in a mouse, to see how those changes affect performance in game. All I can do is test final outcomes of mice and compare performance to other mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Nice assumptions.
> 
> Even if I could talk about the sensor on the technical level, there is no evidence I can give to support the conversation like I could with other sensors. It would be a vague conversation, with no supporting evidence, with someone who has zero clue about it.
> 
> I am not going to spend $70 for a product I don't care to use just to satisfy you. Much like how you don't want to buy a mouse pad that is more than $10 or spend money on ESEA.
> 
> By the way, I also look at your tests and videos.


I think you might have interpreted what I said wrongly. I wasn't attacking you personally, I was comparing your comments to other people's.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Good luck with that. He's futilely trying to form "muh feelings" into meaningful criticism.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I agree. There are also things that aren't shown in mousetester - like the tracking inconsistencies in the FM.


From what I tell, the FM inconsistency is a SROM coding issue with the "calibration" feature. It causes CPI to change every time there is a change in the settings. The sensor "calibrates" to whatever it happens to be pointed at. This feature changes options that will affect the feel of the sensor. Supposedly, it's to lower the LOD so people won't complain like they did with the 3090.

The 3310 isn't designed to be used with a mouse pad with the pigment/color you have. The sensor isn't designed to operate at the same wavelength as the 3090. So the wavelength of the 3310's LED is different than the 3090 suggested wavelength. Your going to have to buy another mouse pad.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I gather, the FM inconsistency is a SROM coding issue with the "calibration" feature. It causes CPI to change every time there is a change in the settings. The sensor "calibrates" to whatever it happens to be pointed at. This feature changes options that will affect the feel of the sensor. Supposedly, it's to lower the LOD so people won't complain like they did with the 3090.
> 
> The 3310 isn't designed to be used with a mouse pad with the pigment/color you have. The sensor isn't designed to operate at the same wavelength as the 3090. So the wavelength of the 3310's LED is different than the 3090 suggested wavelength. Your going to have to buy another $10 mouse pad.


Well there are two different issues. The one with the DPI changing, then another where it feels like there are micro freezes or skipping or something.

Only my first FM performed differently on my different mousepads, the 2nd two performed the same on both pads. It might have been due to that surface/dpi calibration thing. There were people with white pads (which should be much worse than my blue one) who didn't have the same issue.


----------



## qsxcv

well i just got my g303 about 2 hours ago.

cable is very flexible. the braiding probably makes it feel more flexible than it really is. but the it does makes it slide more smoothly against the mousepad.

one of the center mouse feet had a little edge which would scratch against my mousepad (allsop raindrop) when moving vertically. after using it for a bit it's fine now.

the lighting software is kind of annoying. there's some hysteresis to the rgb color control. basically i was trying to make the lighting as white as possible, so i fiddled with the rgb values individually. until i got close. then i pressed the white color button to reset it to 255 255 255 and manually typed in the values i previously had, and the color was very different........ logitech pls flx

sensor looks very interesting in mousetester. there looks like there are three states the sensor can be in depending on how fast it's moving


it looks like the framerate doubles once the sensor is moving faster than around 1.1m/s
i'm not exactly sure why something changes around 0.5m/s, but it seems to consistently show up. namely below 0.5m/s, there are periodic peaks, and above there are periodic dips

here's another that shows the first transition


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't know how much clearer I can get than that. The 303 graphs posted in this thread look identical to the 502's graphs, which strongly suggests there were no major improvements/changes.
> 
> If you were expecting me to list specific technical tweaks I wanted them to do, then that is not possible because:
> 
> 1. Their sensor's functions are private.
> 2. I'm not a mouse engineer.
> 3. I haven't tested every technical change that is possible to do in a mouse, to see how those changes affect performance in game. All I can do is test final outcomes of mice and compare performance to other mice.


So you're saying you are measuring inferior performance and here we are asking you for those measurements. You say that you can't provide them because you can't possibly know what is going on inside the mouse.

The following poster sums your situation politely and I am beginning to suspect those accusing you of trolling and thread derailing might be right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Good luck with that. He's futilely trying to form "muh feelings" into meaningful criticism.


----------



## iceskeleton

This needs to come to australia quick. Also, the RGB looks interesting to me since logitech has an SDK for it too. I wonder if someone can make a program for it to interact with csgo, like the LEDs changing colour when you get a frag. Or going full rainbow when you get an ace.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> So you're saying you are measuring inferior performance and here we are asking you for those measurements. You say that you can't provide them because you can't possibly know what is going on inside the mouse.
> 
> The following poster sums your situation politely and I am beginning to suspect those accusing you of trolling and thread derailing might be right.


If that's what you were asking for you didn't word it very well.

My performance analysis is based off of in-game performance in FPS games, namely CS 1.6. So far all the mousetester graphs have correlated exactly with what I've felt in game.

People saying "they're just feelings" is really really stupid. Before mousetester came out that was all we had to go on to analyze a sensor's performance, being that us end users do not have sophisticated equipment to show any empirical data. And even with mousetester now there are things that aren't shown with that program.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If that's what you were asking for you didn't word it very well.
> 
> My performance analysis is based off of in-game performance in FPS games, namely CS 1.6. So far all the mousetester graphs have correlated exactly with what I've felt in game.
> 
> People saying "they're just feelings" is really really stupid. Before mousetester came out that was all we had to go on to analyze a sensor's performance, being that us end users do not have sophisticated equipment to show any empirical data. And even with mousetester now there are things that aren't shown with that program.


What was your test setup again, CS1.6 & Win7 ?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So far all the mousetester graphs have correlated exactly with what I've felt in game.


i thought we had just been over this............


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If that's what you were asking for you didn't word it very well.
> 
> My performance analysis is based off of in-game performance in FPS games, namely CS 1.6. *So far all the mousetester graphs have correlated exactly with what I've felt in game*.


Perfect so what have you felt in game and where are the graphs that correlate to it?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> People saying "they're just feelings" is really really stupid. Before mousetester came out that was all we had to go on to analyze a sensor's performance, being that us end users do not have sophisticated equipment to show any empirical data. And even with mousetester now there are things that aren't shown with that program.


Unfortunately for you they are correct. There is no possibility of denying it is just your feeling. It doesn't matter if you're the world's greatest CS 1.6 player.

MouseTester definitely does not show everything but its data is far from useless. It's data is real and undeniable. It's data is representative of mouse behaviour though we are not informed enough to understand what is truly causing it.

However educated discussion, comparisons and logic can infer truths about mouse behaviour as we have already done for many others.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i thought we had just been over this............


I know! It's like the movie Groundhog Day.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What was your test setup again, CS1.6 & Win7 ?


Yeah. win8.1 without that window's update that affects it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1500_50#post_23691475
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i thought we had just been over this............


You mean how mice perform differently from one to the other?

I was referring to the comment that seeing how a mouse performs in game is "useless/not proof of anything". So I was saying that my in-game analysis was backed up by the mousetester graphs.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Perfect so what have you felt in game and where are the graphs that correlate to it?


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd - I think the FM is the only one I saved/included graphs for, as I wasn't sure how to interpret them before.

I'm testing the DeathAdder mice at the moment, and my mousetester graphs with those also directly coincide with the performance I analyzed in game. That video should be up within a week.

I didn't save/do mousetester graphs for the older reviews, but will include them with all future ones.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> Unfortunately for you they are correct. There is no possibility of denying it is just your feeling. It doesn't matter if you're the world's greatest CS 1.6 player.


LOL. So you think companies/engineers don't test their mice in real world environments? You realize beta testers are a thing right?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> MouseTester definitely does not show everything but its data is far from useless. It's data is real and undeniable. It's data is representative of mouse behaviour though we are not informed enough to understand what is truly causing it.


You're not in disagreement with me here.

And BTW, I've got no particular beef with Logitech. That technical information video they released on youtube was great (even though contrary to their own products...). There are a depressingly high amount of gaming mouse companies that use deceptive marketing, like insinuating high DPI is something useful/needed that improves performance/precision; along with fluff reviews for their mice on youtube and big websites.

When I first saw cpate posting here a while back I PM'd him with my experiences to try to be as helpful as possible, as it is in my interest to have someone come out with the mouse lots of us have been waiting for for 10+ years.

Logitech have just shown they're more interested in marketing silly things to casuals vs focusing on things that actually matter. At the end of the day they seem primarily focused on whatever they think will make them the most money. So it is mainly the ignorant fluff reviews by clueless people who seem to be fueling the Logitech fluff mice. Which is why I attack that, rather than Logitech directly.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well i just got my g303 about 2 hours ago.
> 
> cable is very flexible. the braiding probably makes it feel more flexible than it really is. but the it does makes it slide more smoothly against the mousepad.
> 
> one of the center mouse feet had a little edge which would scratch against my mousepad (allsop raindrop) when moving vertically. after using it for a bit it's fine now.
> 
> the lighting software is kind of annoying. there's some hysteresis to the rgb color control. basically i was trying to make the lighting as white as possible, so i fiddled with the rgb values individually. until i got close. then i pressed the white color button to reset it to 255 255 255 and manually typed in the values i previously had, and the color was very different........ logitech pls flx
> 
> sensor looks very interesting in mousetester. there looks like there are three states the sensor can be in depending on how fast it's moving
> 
> 
> it looks like the framerate doubles once the sensor is moving faster than around 1.1m/s
> i'm not exactly sure why something changes around 0.5m/s, but it seems to consistently show up. namely below 0.5m/s, there are periodic peaks, and above there are periodic dips
> 
> here's another that shows the first transition


I am assuming these are at 1000hz. How about a comparison at 500hz.


----------



## qsxcv

same behavior though it's harder to see


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
> I'm testing the DeathAdder mice at the moment, and my mousetester graphs with those also directly coincide with the performance I analyzed in game. That video should be up within a week.


*I've already seen all your videos and they are nothing but unbacked statements of your feelings and unbacked things you've read online.*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I didn't save/do mousetester graphs for the older reviews, but will include them with all future ones.


*Again you have nothing concrete to backup your feelings.*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> LOL. So you think companies/engineers don't test their mice in real world environments? You realize beta testers are a thing right?


*There is no indication of me saying or inferring that anywhere in any of my posts. Try again.*

*Also you quoted some of my posts as being written by qsxcv.*


----------



## AnimalK

From what I gather from qsxcv's graphs, there appears to be 2 states and not 3:

*below 0.5m/s* where the velocity is increased by 0 to 0.1 m/s (increased linearly as velocity increases)
*above 0.5m/s* where the velocity is decreased by 0.1 to 0.2 m/s (decreased linearly as velocity increases)
What is interesting is that the velocity appears to alternate between actual velocity (2 data points) and modified velocity (1 data point).
So every 2 actual velocity data points, the following data point is modified according to the states above. This makes sense because it probably bases its calculations on the last 2 velocity data points to determine the current acceleration and adjust the velocity accordingly.

EDIT:
Now that I have had more time to look at it, the states might not be based on current velocity but on acceleration. That could explain why the higher state starts at 0.5m/s and stops when it comes back down to a little less than 0.3 m/s.
So once positive acceleration reaches a certain threshold it swaps to the second state and doesn't return to the initial state until a deceleration of a certain rate has occured.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well i just got my g303 about 2 hours ago.
> 
> sensor looks very interesting in mousetester. there looks like there are three states the sensor can be in depending on how fast it's moving
> 
> it looks like the framerate doubles once the sensor is moving faster than around 1.1m/s
> i'm not exactly sure why something changes around 0.5m/s, but it seems to consistently show up. namely below 0.5m/s, there are periodic peaks, and above there are periodic dips
> 
> here's another that shows the first transition


So, I was "right' about the consistently occurring behavior? I thought I was just picking on the mouse for no real reason (as people have said).

Variable frame rate can be the other reason for "drop outs" showing up. Why would Logitech think it is a good idea to have a variable frame rate!? WHY!? I don't like variable frame rates. I wouldn't be excited for burst mode either.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> This needs to come to australia quick. Also, the RGB looks interesting to me since logitech has an SDK for it too. I wonder if someone can make a program for it to interact with csgo, like the LEDs changing colour when you get a frag. Or going full rainbow when you get an ace.


Or when a Logitech team gets knocked out of group stages all their mice blink red.


----------



## 7Teku

Well after two days of use it's safe to say that for me, the shape is unusable. It pretty much forces you into a finger or claw grip, whereas with my g100s (or even my rival), I can use all 3 grips very comfortably. Also the clicks are too light for me and cause me to miss click when I swipe fast. And you have to loosen your grip to reach the thumb buttons. And the scroll wheel is too far back for me.

Looks like I'll be returning it and getting an aurora or ec2a


----------



## qsxcv

the transition at 1.1m/s is actually very clear

it's not acceleration, i'm 99% sure it's just a variable sensor framerate. i very roughly estimate that in the red region it's around 4100, in the green region it's around 4900, and the blue region to be >11000

see my post here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/760#post_23628336


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Variable frame rate can be the other reason for "drop outs" showing up. Why would Logitech think it is a good idea to have a variable frame rate!? WHY!? I don't like variable frame rates. I wouldn't be to excited for burst mode either.


no idea but for me at least it doesn't drop any samples


my wmo was more stable but i'm not sure if it's because i have a lot of stuff open on my computer right now or if it's because of the mouse

also i find this a little annoying:









basically the leds aren't strobed in phase so when my eyes move over my mouse i see these colors everywhere.
it's like this effect that you see with dlp projectors


----------



## Atavax

thx for the input, qsxcv; i just don't have enough experience reading the charts to know what to look for. Also i personally find it most aesthetically pleasing if i disable the side lights and only have the G light on.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the transition at 1.1m/s is actually very clear
> 
> it's not acceleration, i'm 99% sure it's just a variable sensor framerate. i very roughly estimate that in the red region it's around 4100, in the green region it's around 4900, and the blue region to be >11000
> 
> see my post here:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/760#post_23628336


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no idea but for me at least it doesn't drop any samples
> 
> my wmo was more stable but i'm not sure if it's because i have a lot of stuff open on my computer right now or if it's because of the mouse
> 
> also i find this a little annoying:
> 
> basically the leds aren't strobed in phase so when my eyes move over my mouse i see these colors everywhere.
> it's like this effect that you see with dlp projectors


Does the 3366 have a frame rate of 12.000 like the ADNS-9800? It would be nice if *Rafalog* test for the frame rate.

It's totally possible they decided to use the variable frame rate options. Same thing happened with the Rival on release, but people complained, so they released a firmware update (to change that, I think).

That is why I don't like LEDs. They are too distracting.


----------



## L4dd

I'm hoping to see an official response from Logitech or Pixart regarding the framerate and array size of its 3366 and 3988 sensors...


----------



## qsxcv

maybe, but i'm not sure about all of this because previously i looked at some finalmouse plots and also estimated the fps to be ~12000, but the datasheet says 6500 is the max

in the end i don't think it matters at all except for its impact on the malfunction speed, but i'm still curious to understand how things work internally


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> *I've already seen all your videos and they are nothing but unbacked statements of your feelings and unbacked things you've read online.*
> *Again you have nothing concrete to backup your feelings.*
> *There is no indication of me saying or inferring that anywhere in any of my posts. Try again.*
> 
> *Also you quoted some of my posts as being written by qsxcv.*


Don't be ridiculous. My statements are far more "backed" with experience and expertise than 99% of all the comments in here and elsewhere on the internet in regards to sensor performance.

Nothing concrete? Maybe you need to rewatch the FM review. The graphs correlated exactly with what I described I was feeling in game. As do the DA ones which I'll post soon. Recent analysis being backed up by mousetester data show my previous analysis were credible.

Your attacks on me are laughable, especially considering you previously said yourself that you test sensor performance by moving your mouse around on the desktop, which shows a complete lack of understanding/experience/expertise.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> maybe, but i'm not sure about all of this because previously i looked at some finalmouse plots and also estimated the fps to be ~12000, but the datasheet says 6500 is the max
> 
> in the end i don't think it matters at all except for its impact on the malfunction speed, but i'm still curious to understand how things work internally


Even if you're wrong about what exactly the graphs are showing, it is clear they are showing some kind of tracking anomaly. It's very likely that it is related to what I felt in game.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> maybe, but i'm not sure about all of this because previously i looked at some finalmouse plots and also estimated the fps to be ~12000, but the datasheet says 6500 is the max
> 
> in the end i don't think it matters at all except for its impact on the malfunction speed, but i'm still curious to understand how things work internally


Power saving mode, burst mode, etc.

I don't like a variable frame rate because the cursor feels weird/disjointed throughout a movement depending on how long the mouse has been still or how fast you move it. With a higher frame rate the cursor can feel smoother/floaty, whereas at lower frame rates it can feel slow/jittery. I like the feel of a high frame rate.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Don't be ridiculous. My statements are far more "backed" with experience and expertise than 99% of all the comments in here and elsewhere on the internet in regards to sensor performance.
> 
> Nothing concrete? Maybe you need to rewatch the FM review. The graphs correlated exactly with what I described I was feeling in game. As do the DA ones which I'll post soon. Recent analysis being backed up by mousetester data show my previous analysis were credible.
> 
> Your attacks on me are laughable, especially considering you previously said yourself that you test sensor performance by moving your mouse around on the desktop, which shows a complete lack of understanding/experience/expertise.


Still trying hard I see but only digging yourself deaper into ridicule. That is enough attention for you.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> With a higher frame rate the cursor can feel smoother/floaty, whereas at lower frame rates it can feel slow/jittery.


i think that you'd really need framerate to drop under 2500 or so before you have any chance of seeing a visual difference.
unless your monitor's refresh rate is set to 100, 125, or 200, the fluctuations in mouse position from what we expect to see is by far dominated by how out of sync the usb polling is from the monitor refresh rate (google blurbusters 500 vs 1000hz)


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Maybe you need to rewatch the FM review. The graphs correlated exactly with what I described I was feeling in game. As do the DA ones which I'll post soon.


guess how this mouse performs


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think that you'd really need framerate to drop under 2500 or so before you have any chance of seeing a visual difference.
> unless your monitor's refresh rate is set to 100, 125, or 200, the fluctuations in mouse position from what we expect to see is by far dominated by how out of sync the usb polling is from the monitor refresh rate (google blurbusters 500 vs 1000hz)


I have my monitor at 130Hz.

It isn't about visual perception based on the cursor itself. It's how the sensor "feels" throughout the motion or during small corrections. People might think of it as "smoothing" when it can just be a higher frame rate they are perceiving. I haven't tested this too much. You can say it's just a "feeling" I have.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> guess how this mouse performs


How about doing an Interval vs Time test doing a smooth swipe?


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It isn't about visual perception based on the cursor itself. It's how the sensor "feels" throughout the motion or during small corrections. People might think of it as "smoothing" when it can just be a higher frame rate they are perceiving.


I believe this is the main problem of the people swearing by MLT04.


----------



## AnimalK

Why would a higher frame rate read as a higher velocity?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> small corrections


this is something where things are not so simple and framerate could significantly affect the feel
one of the fundamental issues with just looking at those 4+ m/s mousetester plots is that it's extremely rare that you actually move that quickly in any game. i think the most important thing is how the sensor performs at lower speeds (<1m/s) and very low speeds (<10cm/s) as this is where the precise aiming (or recoil control in cs) occurs


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this is something where things are not so simple and framerate could significantly affect the feel
> one of the fundamental issues with just looking at those 4+ m/s mousetester plots is that it's extremely rare that you actually move that quickly in any game. i think the most important thing is how the sensor performs at lower speeds (<1m/s) and very low speeds (<10cm/s) as this is where the precise aiming (or recoil control in cs) occurs


I rarely, if ever, move over ~2.8m/s. I never had an issue with 3090 mice. I only had problems with the MLT-04 mice.

Small and diagonal movements are over looked.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> those 4+ m/s mousetester plots is that it's extremely rare that you actually move that quickly in any game.


I do constantly


----------



## Imprecision

I'm proud to announce that I've upgraded the sensor in my g303 to greater performance.



I did this by fixing Windows 8.1 desktop performance. As you know, MouseTester runs in the desktop environment where the most hardcore of gamers spend their time. (To be fair, mousing around in the Windows environment does feel way better now.)

Even greater 'performance' can be achieved by lowering the report rate to 500hz, resulting in more averaging. Math is cool!



I can only assume the 'Windows 7 edition' of this mouse will perform even better.


----------



## Skylit

I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis on the mouse tester graphs.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> So just started noticing a problem with my 303. The mousewheel feels sticky, like I'm rolling the wheel against sand. Anyone else?
> 
> Only does this when I scroll up.


I don't have a problem with the wheel in that regard although it does feel like there's a weird tension on it. I'm getting the occasional extra scroll in game that's making me change weapon and its annoying. Anyone else?

CPate is this a technical flaw? Can it be fixed with an firmware? I'm feeling its mechanical so probably not. Guess I'll try another unit.


----------



## yukino

Yo, got my other thing.

I have noticed that the new mouse has a rly good right click oO but my older thing got a better left click, whaiii.. dunno which one should I sell.

That Left click tho is so awesome..


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis on the mouse tester graphs.


It's like taking the "smoothness" and "precision" values in Enotus seriously


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Well after two days of use it's safe to say that for me, the shape is unusable. It pretty much forces you into a finger or claw grip, whereas with my g100s (or even my rival), I can use all 3 grips very comfortably. Also the clicks are too light for me and cause me to miss click when I swipe fast. And you have to loosen your grip to reach the thumb buttons. And the scroll wheel is too far back for me.
> 
> Looks like I'll be returning it and getting an aurora or ec2a


I got an EC2a and found the right click extremely light. On mine it was lighter then then 303. May have been my unit but just a heads up.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> I'm proud to announce that I've upgraded the sensor in my g303 to greater performance.
> 
> 
> 
> I did this by fixing Windows 8.1 desktop performance. As you know, MouseTester runs in the desktop environment where the most hardcore of gamers spend their time. (To be fair, mousing around in the Windows environment does feel way better now.)
> 
> Even greater 'performance' can be achieved by lowering the report rate to 500hz, resulting in more averaging. Math is cool!
> 
> 
> 
> I can only assume the 'Windows 7 edition' of this mouse will perform even better.


here's the windows 7 version

incredible right DD


----------



## iceskeleton

It's time to reinstall windows 7 then


----------



## hza

Kohler = Graph Man - Liberator of Mouse Movement Anomalies


----------



## yukino

yo guys tell me about ur left and right click.. are they the same for you?


----------



## Sencha

No right is more tactile and a little firmer. Also a little louder. Just ordered another to check that the scroll wheel issue isn't specific to my unit so will let you know what that one is like.


----------



## qsxcv

my left click is a little firmer. i think it's completely normal and within the tolerances for the switches do have little differences.

guys, can you check if you also have the following problem with the software:

1. go to the lighting control panel
2. turn on lighting for logo and sides, and turn off lighting effects
3. click the white stock color in the color selector
4. manually type in 177 for green, and 170 for blue. note the color of the lighting. for mine, these values give a pure white color.
5. click the white stock color again
6. instead of typing in 177 and 170, write down 177 and 170 in notepad or something and copy/paste those values into logitech software
7. compare the color to what was in (4). for my g303, the lighting is now pink instead of white


----------



## Sencha

Yeah tolerances are fine for me. They are basically the same as every other mouse I've ever had.


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> No right is more tactile and a little firmer. Also a little louder. Just ordered another to check that the scroll wheel issue isn't specific to my unit so will let you know what that one is like.


Thanks! So I'll keep my new one







the left click is a little bit weaker than my new one, but the right click is amazing :O


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> my left click is a little firmer. i think it's completely normal and within the tolerances for the switches do have little differences.
> 
> guys, can you check if you also have the following problem with the software:
> 
> 1. go to the lighting control panel
> 2. turn on lighting for logo and sides, and turn off lighting effects
> 3. click the white stock color in the color selector
> 4. manually type in 177 for green, and 170 for blue. note the color of the lighting. for mine, these values give a pure white color.
> 5. click the white stock color again
> 6. instead of typing in 177 and 170, write down 177 and 170 in notepad or something and copy/paste those values into logitech software
> 7. compare the color to what was in (4). for my g303, the lighting is now pink instead of white


The color mixing is bugged as hell, tbh.
These are both (stock) yellow, according to the software.
http://abload.de/img/dsc_012597uql.jpg
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0126ojub1.jpg

If you switch to yellow from red/orange, you get that green-ish yellow, but if you switch from green, you get the correct yellow color. Weird...


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> Thanks! So I'll keep my new one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the left click is a little bit weaker than my new one, but the right click is amazing :O


Exactly the same as mine

Any one else getting extra scroll problems? Or is it just me and Pinbot?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Exactly the same as mine
> 
> Any one else getting extra scroll problems? Or is it just me and Pinbot?


Slightly harder right click confirmed. But no scroll bug here.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Kohler = Graph Man - Liberator of Mouse Movement Anomalies


LOL


----------



## writer21

Just got this mouse yesterday. Loving everything about the mouse except for the shape. I feel I can get used to it and I probably will but this is the first mouse I've ever used where my ring and pinky start to numb when gripping the mouse after few games.

Why logitech decides to go with weird shapes I have no idea. This mouse with Aurora shape or mx300 or g100 would be best mouse ever invented.

The sensor is definitely the best I've felt but I'm not an expert. Feels snappier than my fk2 and fk1. The Fk2, FK1, and Evo ec2-a all malfunctioned on my Aorus mouse pad. If I pushed down mouse 1 or 2 button and did fast swipes or lifted the mouse to adjust I would hear the windows sound like the mouse was disconnected. This didn't happen on Steelseries QCK Heavy. But the Logitech G303 mouse works perfect with my mousepad.


----------



## a_ak57

Kohler, don't you think it's unfair to judge the 3366 based off of your single experience of a G502? I mean, you admitted in another thread that it's entirely possible there are notable differences in performance from mouse to mouse. You were really surprised how nice my FK1 mousetester graphs were and IIRC they were actually really similar to your DA2013 graphs, a mouse you called 2nd or 3rd best in terms of feel. So either experience does vary at the individual mouse level, or mousetester isn't as useful as we'd like to think. Or both.

edit: Looked it up and it wasn't even just that you were surprised/impressed by the graphs, it was that mine were outright better than the ones ino had posted and you said there was definitely a good deal of variance mouse to mouse. So yeah, I don't think it's very fair to judge every 3366 based off of the G502 you had.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Kohler, don't you think it's unfair to judge the 3366 based off of your single experience of a G502? I mean, you admitted in another thread that it's entirely likely there are notable differences in performance from mouse to mouse. You were really surprised how nice my FK1 mousetester graphs were and IIRC they were actually really similar to your DA2013 graphs, a mouse you called 2nd or 3rd best in terms of feel. So either experience does vary at the individual mouse level, or mousetester isn't as useful as we'd like to think.


The g502 is so damn heavy it probably threw off the test or makes the sensor feel bad. Good mouse ruined by weight and possibly the shape.


----------



## Maximillion

Weight is definitely a factor for in-game performance but shouldn't impact the graphs.

And In all honesty, while MouseTester is a great program I feel that in some cases it's being used as a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree (both negative and positive).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It's like taking the "smoothness" and "precision" values in Enotus seriously


Yet you use the program in your reviews?

Mouse Tester shows how my Zowie mice have unstable MCU performance. It is supported by evidence from Mouse Tester and other programs.

The Mouse Tester results can vary from computer to computer, but the G303 graphs display the same type of behavior occurring with different computers.

I don't think Mouse Tester is useless like Enotus' smoothness feature. If that is the case, I guess, you have to stop using it for reviews.


----------



## Sencha

Jesus what happened to Logitech customer service. Use to be great. Today I feel like I'm having to fight them on a return which should be easy as anything as its within the 14 days they allow (by law) for a change of mind. However after speaking with someone that I can barely understand they want pictures with handwritten references in them (first world problems) and all I want is an RMA label. Had contact 5 times now with emails back and forth.

I'm returning because of the scroll wheel bug but I'm not logging it as that with them, as after the service I got today I've lost faith in them. Already got another dispatched though as the mouse is serious good fit for me.


----------



## treach

Holy cow, does anybody have win 7 and 8.1 ( both optimized) in one system? Very curious too see the diffenrences..

What abou you qsxcv?


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis on the mouse tester graphs.


Nay, for only when the MouseTester swipe doth reach the sacred velocity of 6 m/s, and only there where it doth produce a perfect archway, then lo, it is written that that arch shall open, and through it shall emerge the God Mouse --- the Mouse that shall lead the true hardcore gamers from the deserts of MLT04 into the land of milk and honey and >2m/s malfunction speeds.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> Nay, for only when the MouseTester swipe doth reach the sacred velocity of 6 m/s, and only there where it doth produce a perfect archway, then lo, it is written that that arch shall open, and through it shall emerge the God Mouse --- the Mouse that shall lead the true hardcore gamers from the deserts of MLT04 into the land of milk and honey and >2m/s malfunction speeds.


All hail The God Mouse!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Yet you use the program in your reviews?
> 
> Mouse Tester shows how my Zowie mice have unstable MCU performance. It is supported by evidence from Mouse Tester and other programs.
> 
> The Mouse Tester results can vary from computer to computer, but the G303 graphs display the same type of behavior occurring with different computers.
> 
> I don't think Mouse Tester is useless like Enotus' smoothness feature. If that is the case, I guess, you have to stop using it for reviews.


Maybe you should not try to read more from a single sentence than I said?

I use MouseTester to verify two things: PCS and max tracking speed. And for that it is better than Enotus because you can set correct CPI and you are safe from false positives. You could also use it to verify polling rate, but for that I'd still prefer MMR.

You *can not* use it to judge tracking quality.

Btw regarding your assumption that the G303 has unstable polling: the "gaps" are only in the velocity/time graphs, if you check the counts/time there are none. So as the velocity is just a calculation from CPI, counts and timing (iirc that is how MouseTester does it) I'd say there are rounding errors or timing errors in that calculation.
As long as the counts/time graph works it's all fine, because only the counts are what the PC actually receives.


----------



## SmashTV

Yep mouse tester graphs are not complete evidence of overall tracking.

But I suppose anything to make the 3366 look bad should be held on to by certain people.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> The g502 is so damn heavy it probably threw off the test or makes the sensor feel bad. Good mouse ruined by weight and possibly the shape.


I think the weight makes my aim in CS feel more steady on higher sensitivity way back when I used such (3 at 450 DPI). After 2 months I got the mouse I just got used to the weight and slowed down to my old old sensitivity which is 2 at 450 CPI and I'm more than fine. It might get difficult in other kinds of games.

I guess the shape is another hit-or-miss like the G303, some people say it's a palm mouse, I find it horrible to palm for myself (hand is round about 18cm), but I might say it's the best claw grip mouse I've ever had in my opinion. Kind of afraid to get the G303 not because of the shape, (I'm as fond with it as with the G502) the light weight might throw me off and I might not like it by having the G502 for so long, might as well just play with that thing until it dies, really.

Maybe I'm just used to it because I jammed all of my weights into my old G5 back in the day. *g*
Just wanted to say that heavy weight mice might be more of a benefit for some, or the nail in the coffin for others.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Maybe you should not try to read more from a single sentence than I said?
> 
> I use MouseTester to verify two things: PCS and max tracking speed. And for that it is better than Enotus because you can set correct CPI and you are safe from false positives. You could also use it to verify polling rate, but for that I'd still prefer MMR.
> 
> You *can not* use it to judge tracking quality.
> 
> Btw regarding your assumption that the G303 has unstable polling: the "gaps" are only in the velocity/time graphs, if you check the counts/time there are none. So as the velocity is just a calculation from CPI, counts and timing (iirc that is how MouseTester does it) I'd say there are rounding errors or timing errors in that calculation.
> As long as the counts/time graph works it's all fine, because only the counts are what the PC actually receives.


All of this. Ino has said in the past that he uses it to test malfunction speed. The program will show you where and sometimes how a mouse malfunctions (it would make the neg accel of MLT04 obvious for instance).

I prefer it for polling rate because a graphical presentation of polling rate over ten seconds seems more useful to me than one string of numbers from under 0.1s.

But I don't know what else people are reading into these graphs. Firstly, my counts vs time graphs are similarly smooth, so the jagginess of MouseTester velocity graphs is almost surely due to the software itself - thirty or forty microseconds of variation in polling like I get on win 8.1 show up as velocity swings.

Second, all these points are collected at roughly 1ms intervals, so even if the g502 WERE producing over/under counts they would all average out over the rendering time of a single frame even on a 144hz monitor...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Maybe you should not try to read more from a single sentence than I said?
> 
> I use MouseTester to verify two things: PCS and max tracking speed. And for that it is better than Enotus because you can set correct CPI and you are safe from false positives. You could also use it to verify polling rate, but for that I'd still prefer MMR.
> 
> You *can not* use it to judge tracking quality.
> 
> Btw regarding your assumption that the G303 has unstable polling: the "gaps" are only in the velocity/time graphs, if you check the counts/time there are none. So as the velocity is just a calculation from CPI, counts and timing (iirc that is how MouseTester does it) I'd say there are rounding errors or timing errors in that calculation.
> As long as the counts/time graph works it's all fine, because only the counts are what the PC actually receives.


I get more false tests from Mouse Tester than Enotus with my Zowie mice. The good thing about it is I can judge issues by using all the graphs together. If you want to use it purely for malfunction speeds, maybe you should use Enotus and do the math instead, because using only Velocity vs Time Mouse Tester graphs for reviews can be very misleading.

Let's not forget that the Mouse Rate Checker results is what made me continue with the questions.

No human can really judge tracking quality without a proper scientific setup. There are mouse companies that don't even know how their mice truly perform. All we can really say is there isn't any major flaws that stand out and the malfunction speed is approximately this. Like most people say, everything else is subjective, therefore not worthy of discussion. That's why I haven't put up any review threads, I rather just comment about flaws in threads related to the product. Which means... Why are people reviewing mice that have no glaring flaws?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Yep mouse tester graphs are not complete evidence of overall tracking.
> 
> But I suppose anything to make the 3366 look bad should be held on to by certain people.


Says the person who likes to contest everything they can.

When did anyone say the 3366 is bad? At least stick to the topic.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> Holy cow, does anybody have win 7 and 8.1 ( both optimized) in one system? Very curious too see the diffenrences..
> 
> What abou you qsxcv?


that previous plot was so smooth because it was at 250hz fyi

i have w8.1 on my other ssd and i'm probably never going to use it again. honestly i'm not someone who's particularly picky about input lag (though i am very interested in the technical details), but even for me aero is too laggy


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You *can not* use it to judge tracking quality.


as it collects ALL the mouse movement data sent to the computer, it is as capable as any other program for evaluating tracking. well maybe paint is better for looking for jitter because of its live feedback, but the main issue with mousetester plots is how to correctly analyze the data.

simply looking at how smooth the curve is is not a way to evaluate absolute performance; however it can tell you something about a particular mouse's performance on different pads.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> as it collects ALL the mouse movement data sent to the computer, it is as capable as any other program for evaluating tracking. well maybe paint is better for looking for jitter because of its live feedback, but the main issue with mousetester plots is how to correctly analyze the data.
> 
> simply looking at how smooth the curve is is not a way to evaluate absolute performance; however it can tell you something about a particular mouse's performance on different pads.


Yes, tracking quality as in surface compatibility could be evaluated, I was aiming more for the "feely" aspects of tracking. The ominous "snappiness" and "being raw" etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I get more false tests from Mouse Tester than Enotus with my Zowie mice. The good thing about it is I can judge issues by using all the graphs together. If you want to use it purely for malfunction speeds, maybe you should use Enotus and do the math instead, because using only Velocity vs Time Mouse Tester graphs for reviews can be very misleading.
> 
> Let's not forget that the Mouse Rate Checker results is what made me continue with the questions.
> 
> No human can really judge tracking quality without a proper scientific setup. There are mouse companies that don't even know how their mice truly perform. All we can really say is there isn't any major flaws that stand out and the malfunction speed is approximately this. Like most people say, everything else is subjective, therefore not worthy of discussion. That's why I haven't put up any review threads, I rather just comment about flaws in threads related to the product. Which means... Why are people reviewing mice that have no glaring flaws?
> Says the person who likes to contest everything they can.
> 
> When did anyone say the 3366 is bad? At least stick to the topic.


Wut? You do not get more false tests from MouseTester, that's impossible because it shows the raw input counts. Enotus just hides a lot!
And how can MouseTester be misleading? Only if people fail to read them properly.

Also Kohler is the one continuously bashing the 3366 because he thinks that his personal experience is universally valid.


----------



## qsxcv

wouldn't a really easy way to compare responsiveness be to align and glue two mice together to a rig, move them, and compare the data? the only issues are aligning the mice and making sure that there's no rotation when moving


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wouldn't a really easy way to compare responsiveness be to align and glue two mice together to a rig, move them, and compare the data? the only issues are aligning the mice and making sure that there's no rotation when moving


If you can discern data from two different move sent to the same rig then probably, but I wouldn't know how to do that. But I know you pulled of other stuff before so I guess you could


----------



## qsxcv

definitely possible:
http://asawicki.info/news_1533_handling_multiple_mice_with_raw_input.html

honestly i'd expect logitech to have already tested sensors this way... if they care about button latency surely they would also care about sensor latency as well


----------



## microe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> definitely possible:
> http://asawicki.info/news_1533_handling_multiple_mice_with_raw_input.html
> 
> honestly i'd expect logitech to have already tested sensors this way... if they care about button latency surely they would also care about sensor latency as well


I've got some old software that does just this, log and id counts from multiple mice simultaneously. Only really used it to satisfy my OCD when setting up sensitivity for different mice







. I made a quick unsuccessful attempt at trying to get meaningful latency comparisons between mice but the results were never really that conclusive. There are other things you could probably do like compare relative angle snapping, that would probably be easier.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *microe*
> 
> I've got some old software that does just this, log and id counts from multiple mice simultaneously. Only really used it to satisfy my OCD when setting up sensitivity for different mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I made a quick unsuccessful attempt at trying to get meaningful latency comparisons between mice but the results were never really that conclusive. There are other things you could probably do like compare relative angle snapping, that would probably be easier.


If you can get sequences of (x,y) coordinates for both mice while moving them around (while strapped together) drawing something in Paint or whatever, someone with the right Math or Physics background should know how to analyse those two sets with regards to which one reacted first to changes in direction and then calculate the latency of the second set. I think there's stuff about frequencies that can be used for that.

Maybe just drawing direction changes for those two sequences into the same graph will already show something without having to know anything about that frequency stuff (I mean just by looking at the two lines)?


----------



## qsxcv

the main difficulty is in making sure that there is no rotation when moving the mice. if there is rotation, even two identical mice aligned perfectly wouldn't have the data line up.


----------



## microe

By examining the graph shape you can try to assess the consistency of the mouse movement. You can't tell latency or deviation from ideal without a proper reference, but when you see a choppy graph vs. a smooth graph that can mean something with respect to consistency in my opinion.

Assume a constant 125 FPS game. For each new frame it gathers 8 ms worth of mouse input for the next viewpoint update. An ideal 1000 Hz polling rate mouse will provide 8 updates (coincidence that MouseTester uses an averaging window of 8 and I play Quake?). So when I look at the average curves I am looking for it to be smooth and not very choppy. Ideally all of the reports also fall on the curve. The smoothness (consistency) of the viewpoint rotation is approximated by this curve and somewhat by the deviation of the individual points from this curve.

Based on your sensitivity you can calculate whether any of this matters to you. For example at a sensitivity of 3.5 in quake it takes about 13 counts to cause a viewpoint rotation of a degree.


----------



## Cyro999

Still not available in the UK aside from corsair shop? I've been waiting over 2 weeks! D:


----------



## microe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Maybe just drawing direction changes for those two sequences into the same graph will already show something without having to know anything about that frequency stuff (I mean just by looking at the two lines)?


That's pretty much what I tried. Held two mice together, made a swipe, normalized the counts to account for different cpi, and compared. If someone else wants to try it out I still have the software.


----------



## Ickz

Just got my second one to see if the lmb/rmb felt the same (on my first one the lmb felt slightly easier to press and less "clicky" than the rmb). Both buttons feel almost exactly the same on this one. Haven't even plugged it in yet so I'll report in later if they start to feel different after some use or something.


----------



## offshell

I think I'm going to be going back to try my Zowie EC2-A again or all the way back to my fk1. It's going to be tough because I absolutely love the clicks on the g303 and the build quality and side buttons are so much better than the zowie, but I just can't get used to the shape. It's not that it was uncomfortable, it just felt odd and kept distracting me as I'd feel it and notice it much more. I'm not able to tell any difference in sensor performance or button latency myself. Great mouse and I'm tempted to just try to keep it and force myself to become used to it, but not right now.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *microe*
> 
> An ideal 1000 Hz polling rate mouse will provide 8 updates (coincidence that MouseTester uses an averaging window of 8 and I play Quake?). So when I look at the average curves I am looking for it to be smooth and not very choppy.


i haven't looked at mousetester's code, but i think that the averaging has a bug. it makes no sense for the curve to go backwards


----------



## CorruptBE

:thumb:I just just switched back to my homebrew FK2 btw.

Not sensor/performance related. Shape uber alles tbh.

If anyone from Logitech reads this: your experiment hasn't failed, but it just needs a more "simple" shape. Same quality parts and same performance in a G100'ish shape and I would've probably sticked with it.

Just tired of having to adapt a full hour to a shape that's unnatural to me before I can actually play at my full potential. The full potential is better then what I do with my FK2 but it takes me a longer warmup. FK2: Just pick up and go. Ninox Aurora (similar shape to a G100S): Pickup and go.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> :thumb:I just just switched back to my homebrew FK2 btw.
> 
> Not sensor/performance related. Shape uber alles tbh.
> 
> If anyone from Logitech reads this: your experiment hasn't failed, but it just needs a more "simple" shape. Same quality parts and same performance in a G100'ish shape and I would've probably sticked with it.
> 
> Just tired of having to adapt a full hour to a shape that's unnatural to me before I can actually play at my full potential. The full potential is better then what I do with my FK2 but it takes me a longer warmup. FK2: Just pick up and go. Ninox Aurora (similar shape to a G100S): Pickup and go.


I've had a similar experience. Been using the G303 for a few days now and it's an excellently performing mouse. Size-wise it's right in a range I like yet the shape is..I really can't explain it. It's not what I would call flat-out "uncomfortable" it just seems unnecessarily "geometric".

When I first laid hands on it my impression was "hm, this ain't bad..what's the fuss?" but using it then bouncing over to my Aurora (and believe it or not, even my Avior) the latter seems more "homely". I fall right into place with it. I won't be returning the 303 and I'll continue to use it but my hopes of it becoming my "main" and tossing all my other mice in a drawer somewhere are fading.

I guess the Sica and Castor are still on my radar.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> It's going to be tough because I absolutely love the clicks on the g303 and the build quality and side buttons are so much better than the zowie, but I just can't get used to the shape.


The FK's side buttons are good. The placement and shape are good. The only thing I don't like is how mouse 4 is harder to press because the shape of the mouse makes it taper towards the rear. I cannot see how the side buttons on the G302/3 are better than the FK.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I've had a similar experience. Been using the G303 for a few days now and it's an excellently performing mouse. Size-wise it's right in a range I like yet the shape is..I really can't explain it. *It's not what I would call flat-out "uncomfortable" it just seems unnecessarily "geometric"*.
> 
> When I first laid hands on it my impression was "hm, this ain't bad..what's the fuss?" but using it then bouncing over to my Aurora (and believe it or not, even my Avior) the latter seems more "homely". I fall right into place with it. I won't be returning the 303 and I'll continue to use it but my hopes of it becoming my "main" and tossing all my other mice in a drawer somewhere are fading.
> 
> I guess the Sica and Castor are still on my radar.


Exactly.

Just feels... well unnatural to me while playing, though not uncomfortable.


----------



## Ickz

Guess I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. Love the shape and feels totally natural to me.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The FK's side buttons are good. The placement and shape are good. The only thing I don't like is how mouse 4 is harder to press because the shape of the mouse makes it taper towards the rear. I cannot see how the side buttons on the G302/3 are better than the FK.


I was comparing more to the EC2-A in that statement. The fk1 does have much better side buttons as well.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> Just feels... well unnatural to me while playing, though not uncomfortable.


Is it because the rear is triangular? Is it because the mouse tapers like an arrow from the middle to the front? Is it because it has very slanted sides?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Is it because the rear is triangular? Is it because the mouse tapers like an arrow from the middle to the front? Is it because it has very slanted sides?


Most likely because of what I typed more then a week ago: Using to many sharp angles instead of smoother curves. Also could use a bit more lenght imo. My hand somehow lacks "support".


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis on the mouse tester graphs.


But so far for me mousetester graphs have correlated exactly with my ingame experiences.

DA 3.5g - one of the worst mice I've ever used:


DA 4g - 2nd best sensor I've ever used:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Kohler, don't you think it's unfair to judge the 3366 based off of your single experience of a G502? I mean, you admitted in another thread that it's entirely possible there are notable differences in performance from mouse to mouse. You were really surprised how nice my FK1 mousetester graphs were and IIRC they were actually really similar to your DA2013 graphs, a mouse you called 2nd or 3rd best in terms of feel. So either experience does vary at the individual mouse level, or mousetester isn't as useful as we'd like to think. Or both.
> 
> edit: Looked it up and it wasn't even just that you were surprised/impressed by the graphs, it was that mine were outright better than the ones ino had posted and you said there was definitely a good deal of variance mouse to mouse. So yeah, I don't think it's very fair to judge every 3366 based off of the G502 you had.


The thing is that so far there seems to be little to no variance in the 3366 graphs I've seen.

Also, I've been critical about every mouse I've ever used/reviewed. Including ones from companies that seem to have the best intentions - like zowie, ninox, finalmouse, etc..

What annoys me in particular in this case is people calling this the best sensor ever, which is simply deceit and misinformation.


----------



## a_ak57

Did you actually make graphs of the G502 you had? I mean, if you didn't then it's entirely possible you just had a lesser specimen and the rest don't. Or if you did make graphs and it looked like all the others, which ITT look nice, then the mousetester graphs apparently mean very little.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What annoys me in particular in this case is people calling this the best sensor ever, which is simply deceit and misinformation.


implementation =/= sensor

It's obvious that a really good 3310 could come close or even surpass this.


----------



## Aventadoor

Tons of people here have been hating on s3988, saying its a smoothed garbage sensor .
Ive always been defending it, cause I totally disagree.

Most people who have never tried a IME 3.0 will most likly favor a 3310.
S3988 feel different to a 3310.

If my memory serves me right, G502's sensor performance dident feel too far off a IME 3.0 either.
Althought its very difficult to make any thoughts on the G502 bcuz of its weight.

But at the end of the day sensor performance doesnt matter much


----------



## Aventadoor

I have to say, it's funny how aDren, one of the guys who hyped up fm2015, went back to fk1 and will soon be using da cause of razer sponsor


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I have to say, it's funny how aDren, one of the guys who hyped up fm2015, went back to fk1 and will soon be using da cause of razer sponsor


If you are being PAID to play and to use a sponsored product, then you have NO choice but to do as you're told, am I right ?


----------



## qsxcv

the fact is that you can give a pro player a monitor with 10ms of lag and they'll still aim completely fine.


----------



## Abacus1234

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the fact is that you can give a pro player a monitor with 10ms of lag and they'll still aim completely fine.


While that is certainly true, it would be a disadvantage against other pros using better monitors. By that same reasoning, if I am playing against people who are about as good as I am, I'll want to shave as many miliseconds as possible from my overall latency. Same goes for mouse accuracy.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What annoys me in particular in this case is people calling this the best sensor ever, which is simply deceit and misinformation.


It is a good sensor, it's just the software and/or firmware is haunted. For a mouse like the G502, it will feel like the best sensor on earth one second, then all you do is install LGS, change some trivial setting, uninstall LGS, now the mouse will either be sluggish or some other strange characteristic where it controls completely different than before, and profile 3 that you set to 1000hz is now 500hz for no reason.

*The grand unifying bad mouse software theory*

If I had to guess where some of these problems might originate, it might have something to do with the following. Firmware updaters from Steelseries seem to fail on many boards (Asus) if you don't have C3 or C6 state report turned on (at least in Win 8.1), The reason it fails is because I think the software is issuing some kind of super fast USB ejection method to cycle it from normal mode to service mode without physically unplugging the device,, and it requires some C state handoff to accomplish this task.

Ok, so that's why Steelseries software screws up, but what about Logitech? If you install LGS, every time the software boots, it issues a similar type of "I'm going to issue a software command to emulate the act of someone manually unpluggeding the USB device and plugging it back in without actually doing so by hand". This act is not as fast as the Steelseries one, but might also cause problems in a similar way.

Anyway, the Steelseries issue causes a terminal failure of the firmware update just not working at all and getting stuck in some kind of loop without c3/c6 report state being on. The effects of this USB cycle command occurring on the LGS software might not cause the device to completely fail, but cycling it real fast could introduce some kind of timing issue, which you are then carrying in with you while you set mouse settings in software. I don't understand their reasoning for issuing this USB cycle command every time the LGS software loads. I seem to remember the older Logitech software back when the G9x had that software with the red borders/background giving much more consistent results. Did that software initiate a USB cycle command on every boot? I don't seem to remember it doing so, but maybe it did.

It takes much longer for USB devices to initialize and eject in Win 7 than in Win 8, so the OS choice is going to have some kind of role in these issues as well. I don't have time to test any of this right now, but I guess if you wanted to be safe, you might want to try setting all BIOS settings to default before loading any mouse software, changing settings and saving to memory, or firmware updates. I guess It's still possible those USB cycling commands could throw things off even with all power saving states on as well. If you hit the DPI up or down button on a G400, the mouse doesn't control properly until after you reboot. It gives you temporary clown cursor till reboot. I believe there's a lot of things that can blow up the timing of USB devices.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Did you actually make graphs of the G502 you had? I mean, if you didn't then it's entirely possible you just had a lesser specimen and the rest don't. Or if you did make graphs and it looked like all the others, which ITT look nice, then the mousetester graphs apparently mean very little.


I don't recall, but from all the graphs I've seen, my 502 performed exactly as I would expect from seeing those graphs in comparison to others.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> implementation =/= sensor


While you and I know this, the vast majority of other gamers do not. And they also use the term interchangeably. So people go around all over the place saying "this mouse has the best sensor ever", and no one's gonna differentiate that to mean "this sensor architecture is great but the actual performance in game isn't amazing".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I have to say, it's funny how aDren, one of the guys who hyped up fm2015, went back to fk1 and will soon be using da cause of razer sponsor


There is good reason to both hype and not use the FM sensor. It is very very clear that it's "rawness/precision/responsiveness" is likely the best ever. However, it has some other tracking inconsistency.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> It is a good sensor, it's just the software and/or firmware is haunted. For a mouse like the G502, it will feel like the best sensor on earth one second, then all you do is install LGS, change some trivial setting, uninstall LGS, now the mouse will either be sluggish or some other strange characteristic where it controls completely different than before, and profile 3 that you set to 1000hz is now 500hz for no reason.
> 
> *The grand unifying bad mouse software theory*
> 
> If I had to guess where some of these problems might originate, it might have something to do with the following. Firmware updaters from Steelseries seem to fail on many boards (Asus) if you don't have C3 or C6 state report turned on (at least in Win 8.1), The reason it fails is because I think the software is issuing some kind of super fast USB ejection method to cycle it from normal mode to service mode without physically unplugging the device,, and it requires some C state handoff to accomplish this task.
> 
> Ok, so that's why Steelseries software screws up, but what about Logitech? If you install LGS, every time the software boots, it issues a similar type of "I'm going to issue a software command to emulate the act of someone manually unpluggeding the USB device and plugging it back in without actually doing so by hand". This act is not as fast as the Steelseries one, but might also cause problems in a similar way.
> 
> Anyway, the Steelseries issue causes a terminal failure of the firmware update just not working at all and getting stuck in some kind of loop without c3/c6 report state being on. The effects of this USB cycle command occurring on the LGS software might not cause the device to completely fail, but cycling it real fast could introduce some kind of timing issue, which you are then carrying in with you while you set mouse settings in software. I don't understand their reasoning for issuing this USB cycle command every time the LGS software loads. I seem to remember the older Logitech software back when the G9x had that software with the red borders/background giving much more consistent results. Did that software initiate a USB cycle command on every boot? I don't seem to remember it doing so, but maybe it did.
> 
> It takes much longer for USB devices to initialize and eject in Win 7 than in Win 8, so the OS choice is going to have some kind of role in these issues as well. I don't have time to test any of this right now, but I guess if you wanted to be safe, you might want to try setting all BIOS settings to default before loading any mouse software, changing settings and saving to memory, or firmware updates. I guess It's still possible those USB cycling commands could throw things off even with all power saving states on as well. If you hit the DPI up or down button on a G400, the mouse doesn't control properly until after you reboot. It gives you temporary clown cursor till reboot. I believe there's a lot of things that can blow up the timing of USB devices.


I haven't installed the drivers for any of the mice I've tested because of reports like that saying the mouse software had very negative affects.

Also, from what I understand, you only test mice in 2D environments. You mentioned before that by using high DPI it magnifies the sensor performance in 2D environements, and I would agree with that. However, that can't completely replace 3D environment testing. So while you may be happy with the 2D performance, I can tell in 3D games that the performance is below a number of other mice.


----------



## jaffa2843

@CPate

Do you aware of the G303's color mixing bug?
Both of these are the same (stock) yellow, but if I switch from the warm end (red, orange) it becomes green-ish, but if I switch from green, it will be the "correct" yellow.
yellow (switched from green)
yellow (switched from red)

And it's happening with pretty much any mixed colors. For example if I set the 'Color Cycle' Lighting Effect, the yellow is pretty much non-existent during the trasition. (I have an eye for colors, coz I work with photos, and I have a pretty good experience with painting)









Other than that, it's a good mouse, but you could improve it with a little less "extreme" shape. (G100s' for example)


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You mentioned before that by using high DPI it magnifies the sensor performance in 2D environements.


Wasn't me, I use 800 DPI 1000hz in everything and around 20cm/360. Ironically, the best performance I've ever had for playing FPS was from a MLT04 #1, and a Xai #2, mostly from perfect weight balance, pretty much as good as it gets mouse feet layout, and about as good as it gets shape. That's one of the few mice that exists that doesn't feel like a chore to use. Before someone complains about having used a Xai at any time in history, I believe there's a few pros that used them a long time and might still.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Steelseries mice "service mode" and "3D environment rawness testing".


----------



## Maximillion

@r0ach did you ever test the Aurora? It'd be interesting to know how you feel about it overall, especially in comparison to the Kana v2.


----------



## DTrinh09

How does this mouse's coating last after extended use? I've only had the G302 for a couple days. Does the shell end up smoothing out?


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> @r0ach did you ever test the Aurora? It'd be interesting to know how you feel about it overall, especially in comparison to the Kana v2.


Never got one. Probably going to try that Finalmouse NDA firmware soon and see what's changed. Response time was excellent, but seemed like it didn't quite stack up to something like a 3g for pinpoint accuracy with original firmware. The firmware is close enough to good performance already, that' it's not hard to imagine them releasing a new one that makes people want the mouse. Original Avior firmware was way worse than Finalmouse, and they turned that firmware from crap to good.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> How does this mouse's coating last after extended use? I've only had the G302 for a couple days. Does the shell end up smoothing out?


Ive used a G302 (until I got my G303 a few days ago) from December 8th 2014 to March 18th 2015 and I've seen no wear or tear on it for that matter.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Does anyone know a way to raise lift off distance on the 3366 sensor without compromising its accuracy?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Does anyone know a way to raise lift off distance on the 3366 sensor without compromising its accuracy?


Maybe use default calibration? If you're already using it not much else you can do.


----------



## bigjw

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It is a good sensor, it's just the software and/or firmware is haunted. For a mouse like the G502, it will feel like the best sensor on earth one second, then all you do is install LGS, change some trivial setting, uninstall LGS, now the mouse will either be sluggish or some other strange characteristic where it controls completely different than before, and profile 3 that you set to 1000hz is now 500hz for no reason.
> 
> *The grand unifying bad mouse software theory*
> 
> If I had to guess where some of these problems might originate, it might have something to do with the following. Firmware updaters from Steelseries seem to fail on many boards (Asus) if you don't have C3 or C6 state report turned on (at least in Win 8.1), The reason it fails is because I think the software is issuing some kind of super fast USB ejection method to cycle it from normal mode to service mode without physically unplugging the device,, and it requires some C state handoff to accomplish this task.
> 
> Ok, so that's why Steelseries software screws up, but what about Logitech? If you install LGS, every time the software boots, it issues a similar type of "I'm going to issue a software command to emulate the act of someone manually unpluggeding the USB device and plugging it back in without actually doing so by hand". This act is not as fast as the Steelseries one, but might also cause problems in a similar way.
> 
> Anyway, the Steelseries issue causes a terminal failure of the firmware update just not working at all and getting stuck in some kind of loop without c3/c6 report state being on. The effects of this USB cycle command occurring on the LGS software might not cause the device to completely fail, but cycling it real fast could introduce some kind of timing issue, which you are then carrying in with you while you set mouse settings in software. I don't understand their reasoning for issuing this USB cycle command every time the LGS software loads. I seem to remember the older Logitech software back when the G9x had that software with the red borders/background giving much more consistent results. Did that software initiate a USB cycle command on every boot? I don't seem to remember it doing so, but maybe it did.
> 
> It takes much longer for USB devices to initialize and eject in Win 7 than in Win 8, so the OS choice is going to have some kind of role in these issues as well. I don't have time to test any of this right now, but I guess if you wanted to be safe, you might want to try setting all BIOS settings to default before loading any mouse software, changing settings and saving to memory, or firmware updates. I guess It's still possible those USB cycling commands could throw things off even with all power saving states on as well. If you hit the DPI up or down button on a G400, the mouse doesn't control properly until after you reboot. It gives you temporary clown cursor till reboot. I believe there's a lot of things that can blow up the timing of USB devices.






what do you mean by clown cursor?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Before someone complains about having used a Xai at any time in history, I believe there's a few pros that used them a long time and might still.


Still have a fully functional Xai and it's even better than the current Vanilla Sensei by far. Better quality in everything yet still nice to hold for long periods, for an ambi-mouse







.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Maybe use default calibration? If you're already using it not much else you can do.


Unfortunately that's what Im using atm. Any word on manually setting LOD or some way to trick the sensor into giving a LOD similar to the G302's? Thanks


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Unfortunately that's what Im using atm. Any word on manually setting LOD or some way to trick the sensor into giving a LOD similar to the G302's? Thanks


Why would you want to increase the LOD? Could you explain? Im curious why anyone want to do this.
Maybe you tilt the mouse a bit when you swipe and it's stop tracking?
I honestly don't find any other reason.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Why would you want to increase the LOD? Could you explain? Im curious why anyone want to do this.
> Maybe you tilt the mouse a bit when you swipe and it's stop tracking?
> I honestly don't find any other reason.


Extremely low LOD makes the mouse unusable that's why.

You just can't do fast swipes if it's too low since you're lifting the mouse slightly to reduce friction when doing those.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Extremely low LOD makes the mouse unusable that's why.
> 
> You just can't do fast swipes if it's too low since you're lifting the mouse slightly to reduce friction when doing those.


Well, I had no problem with this. Maybe I'm too perfect while doing fast swipes.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Why would you want to increase the LOD? Could you explain? Im curious why anyone want to do this.
> Maybe you tilt the mouse a bit when you swipe and it's stop tracking?
> I honestly don't find any other reason.


Its stops tracking when I play osu (some rhythm game that requires fast and constant mouse movements) and when I swipe in CS:GO. Tilting is out of the question because of the additional mouse feet.


----------



## Sencha

After using this mouse last night for the first time properly (gaming for over an hour) the shape actually became problematic for me. As my grip changed slightly during intense moments I ended up squeezing the mouse a little which caused the sharp sides to dig in to my hand. It wasn't really uncomfortable but I was highly aware of the mouse in my hand. Vs the FK1 that literally disappears for me. My finger tip grip is a hybrid though as the pinky and thumb like to hug the sides a little while gaming.

I still think the shape is great for the grip its suppose to be used for. Maybe though the side could have been toned down a little to accommodate a lot more people. Or maybe its best left as it is for those that love it. I shall be returning to the FK1 though. I'm going to hang on to the mouse though and use it on a browser machine as I grip it different in the desktop environment.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Extremely low LOD makes the mouse unusable that's why.
> 
> You just can't do fast swipes if it's too low since you're lifting the mouse slightly to reduce friction when doing those.


What?
No one does this.

I have the LOWEST LOD G502 on *earth*. On EARTH I say. Even r0ach would be amazed.
I stuck TWO stacks of hotline games competition feet on mine (this way I insure a great glide, without the ridged 'right' side of the mouse ever touching the mouse pad, and not only does it STILL track perfectly, I can do SUPER human fast swipes and still reach 6.20 m/s at superhuman swipes ! Yes with 1.2mm of mouse feet on mine, it still tracks great and still can reach 6.20 m/s!

This is on a puretrak Talent.

If you are trying to have your mouse track when LIFTING IT and swiping--you're doing it completely WRONG.
How the hell did you ever use the MLT04 (Intellimice) or ....even old BALL mice? The LOD was zero, on those things....

I suggest a Deathadder Black Edition for you-- 3.6mm LOD







(Maybe a DA Chroma if it allows you to set the LOD).


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> [...] How the hell did you ever use the MLT04 (Intellimice) or ....even old BALL mice? The LOD was zero, on those things.... [...]


Nope, you could lift and tilt the ball mice a bit. I actually always did that for swipes, lifted the left side a bit. I don't remember what was going on exactly, but I think there was something with the rollers and repositioning it by tilting made it so the pointer jumped around less, and maybe that's where I got trained to very often have the left side a bit in the air when swiping around.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> What?
> No one does this.
> 
> I have the LOWEST LOD G502 on *earth*. On EARTH I say. Even r0ach would be amazed.
> I stuck TWO stacks of hotline games competition feet on mine (this way I insure a great glide, without the ridged 'right' side of the mouse ever touching the mouse pad, and not only does it STILL track perfectly, I can do SUPER human fast swipes and still reach 6.20 m/s at superhuman swipes ! Yes with 1.2mm of mouse feet on mine, it still tracks great and still can reach 6.20 m/s!
> 
> This is on a puretrak Talent.
> 
> If you are trying to have your mouse track when LIFTING IT and swiping--you're doing it completely WRONG.
> How the hell did you ever use the MLT04 (Intellimice) or ....even old BALL mice? The LOD was zero, on those things....
> 
> I suggest a Deathadder Black Edition for you-- 3.6mm LOD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Maybe a DA Chroma if it allows you to set the LOD).


Hold your horses.
I just got my G303, LOD on it after tuning is higher compared to my X5's medium setting after tuning.
So I'm guessing lowest LOD on earth isn't really 3366's forte as you think. It's probably around 0.5-0.6 milimeters after tuning, a reasonable LOD.

I'll write my first impressions of g303 later in the day.

Meanwhile, have a pic:


----------



## Aventadoor

Whats the default settings with G303?
I get my G303 on monday


----------



## Melan

Same here. Waiting for monday.


----------



## Brightmist

Factory default is still lower than 1 CD.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I actually always did that for swipes, lifted the left side a bit.


I still do that from time to time, specially in Windows.
That's why i hate it when the glides aren't on the edge of the mouse but a bit inwards, i'll scrape the plastic side of the mouse over the hard mat.








After a while i'd flatten the bottom of the mouse with sandpaper and install different glides.
I scrape the G303's edge also.


----------



## Brightmist

Alright, played with it for a bit and I'm sold, here are my impressions after 30 minutes or so:

No deadzone and sensor feels raw and snappy. Snappier than my X5 for sure yet I still don't think either has smoothing. I just think they have different feels due to weight distribution, shape and hardware.
G303's weight is focused on its ass which is ok because I feel you have to properly grab the mouse's front to comfortably use it.
I don't like stock feet, I'll probably get something else for it if they don't get better in a couple of weeks.
My right click is harder than my left, which is alright. Both are pretty light compared to other mice. I even missclicked m2 once or twice. Shouldn't be a problem after I get comfortable with the shape.
Mousewheel is precise in Windows but over-scrolled in CS:GO for some reason, no idea why.
I honestly don't care about cable or plastic quality so no comment on those.
Software is alright, I just wish they had a profile change button under the mouse so we didn't have to install LGS to change the color of the light. Also RGB coloring on software is bugged.
The shape is comfortable for an average sized palm grip but I fear there may be too many missclicks when palm-gripping.
Click latency's probably on-par with logitech standarts. I'd guess 3-5 ms slower than Xornet fw55 but didn't bother doing the bump test.
Overall it's a really nice mouse sitting around about 115mm length. Highly recommended for claw-hold fingertip grippers. If you're not comfortable with G303, I suggest you try X5's more neutral shape.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigjw*
> 
> 
> what do you mean by clown cursor?


clown cursor is very similar to swamp/donkey cursor.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You mentioned before that by using high DPI it magnifies the sensor performance in 2D environements.
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't me, I use 800 DPI 1000hz in everything and around 20cm/360. Ironically, the best performance I've ever had for playing FPS was from a MLT04 #1, and a Xai #2, mostly from perfect weight balance, pretty much as good as it gets mouse feet layout, and about as good as it gets shape. That's one of the few mice that exists that doesn't feel like a chore to use. Before someone complains about having used a Xai at any time in history, I believe there's a few pros that used them a long time and might still.
Click to expand...

Don't think anyone is using Xai anymore, but there are plenty that use SS raw's in csgo pro scene atleast.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Don't think anyone is using Xai anymore, but there are plenty that use SS raw's in csgo pro scene atleast.


In the SS RAW's the sensor seemst to be implemented wrong.
If you look in the ADNS-9500 specs it seems to perform better with a distance from lens reference plane to navigation surface of 3.0mm to 3.4mm which results in a LOD of around 1.2 mm.

http://www1.futureelectronics.com/doc/AVAGO%20TECHNOLOGIES/ADNS-9500.pdf


----------



## Brightmist

Further impressions:

Back(side) panel plastic: it's so bad and makes my hand sweat eventho normally my hand never sweats.
Front(side) panel: They could've picked a more textured plastic
Mousewheel so bad.

Still the best mouse for me so far, gonna keep it.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What annoys me in particular in this case is people calling this the best sensor ever, which is simply deceit and misinformation.


I think it's more annoying to imply that your opinions are absolute.


----------



## aleexkrysel

Why is it better than the X5 in your opinion?


----------



## Lolgitech

*Logitech Read This! Please*

.


----------



## pinobot

One free Battlefield Hardline Gold Battlepack when buying a G303 from the Logitech site.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I think it's more annoying to imply that your opinions are absolute.


.


----------



## braindamage

My G303 seems to have more angle snapping when compared to my WMO, even when angle snapping is off in the Logitech drivers.

EDIT: Paint Tests

G303


Avior 3.38


WMO


Subjectively speaking, drawing straight lines on the G303 and Avior feel much easier than on the WMO.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *braindamage*
> 
> My G303 seems to have more angle snapping when compared to my WMO, even when angle snapping is off in the Logitech drivers.


It definitely feels like it.


----------



## DTrinh09

Can you adjust the LOD on the G303? I don't see it in the options on my G302. I want a lower LOD than what's on the G302. I have a habit of tilting my mouse when swiping left/right when playing CS:GO and the LOD is affecting me.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Can you adjust the LOD on the G303? I don't see it in the options on my G302. I want a lower LOD than what's on the G302. I have a habit of tilting my mouse when swiping left/right when playing CS:GO and the LOD is affecting me.


No, you can't customize the LOD on the G303. Although it is really low, <1CD


----------



## CorruptBE

Actually contemplating for the first time ever to use 2 mice:

Xai/Sensei Raw for CS/BF type of games (where precision and holding angles is more important then consistency).

Zowie FK2 for whenever I get the desire to dabble in Quake/UT again (In these games the random accel became an issue).

Considering I can switch between these 2 mice quite easily since I've both used them for extended times and the shapes are somewhat similar. It's like my brain goes all "aaah it's this one!".

At least until some brand has the common sense to bring out a more perfect variation of this shape.

Logitech G303 boosted specific elements in CS/BF but when I had to play tougher opponents... I needed to be quicker on my feet and then you just realize: shape uber alles. You need something that makes you play natural, without thinking about "your mouse". Something that just makes you "act" rather then "think", because when you "think", you're already to damn slow.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> No, you can't customize the LOD on the G303. Although it is really low, <1CD


I am pretty sure Surface Tuning in Logitech Gaming Software does this. It is not available for the g302 but it is for the g303. The setting is also saved on the mouse from what I can tell.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> No, you can't customize the LOD on the G303. Although it is really low, <1CD


I prefer ~2-3cd LOD D:


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I am pretty sure Surface Tuning in Logitech Gaming Software does this. It is not available for the g302 but it is for the g303. The setting is also saved on the mouse from what I can tell.


I didn't mention the surface tuning intentionally, because you get bugs with it. Have you heard of the "spinning bug" of the PMW3366? Just leave the surface tuning on factory default.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I prefer ~2-3cd LOD D:


Are you serious, dude?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I think it's more annoying to imply that your opinions are absolute.


The graphs I've posted for the FM and DAs show that it goes beyond personal opinion.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The graphs I've posted for the FM and DAs show that it goes beyond personal opinion.


that the 3366 isn't the best sensor is an opinion that you have


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> I didn't mention the surface tuning intentionally, because you get bugs with it. Have you heard of the "spinning bug" of the PMW3366? Just leave the surface tuning on factory default.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious, dude?


I haven't experienced any spinning bug and I surfaced tuned it the moment I got it. I will definitely report here if I ever do experience it.

Maybe the surface tuning has no issues with my Qck Heavy but it might with other surfaces?


----------



## CorruptBE

I've experienced it once. It's quite hilarious really.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I've experienced it once. It's quite hilarious really.


What surface were you using it on?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I haven't experienced any spinning bug and I surfaced tuned it the moment I got it. I will definitely report here if I ever do experience it.
> 
> Maybe the surface tuning has no issues with my Qck Heavy but it might with other surfaces?


Well I had it regularly during a quick rocket jump. (With the G502 too.) BTW why surface tune it, when the mouse has absolutely no problem with any surface?

I've just tried it again a minute ago, and with the first swipe, it malfunctioned... Surface tuning is definitely a no-go.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Well I had it regularly during a quick rocket jump. (With the G502 too.) BTW why surface tune it, when the mouse has absolutely no problem with any surface?
> 
> I've just tried it again a minute ago, and with the first swipe, it malfunctioned... Surface tuning is definitely a no-go.


I surface tuned it because the LOD was a little higher than I like. Otherwise I would have left it alone for sure.

I didn't know this was also occurring with g502. I hope Logitech get around to addressing the issue given that it is so reproducible for you.


----------



## popups

Isn't surface tuning for lowering LOD for different mouse pads? For me a LOD of 2.5mm, without feet, is the maximum I can use without being bothered by it. As long as it isn't above 2.5mm I wouldn't use "surface tuning" at all.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> that the 3366 isn't the best sensor is an opinion that you have


It's backed up by all the graphs people have posted in this thread and the 502 thread.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> What surface were you using it on?


Puretrak Talent. Factory Settings, 1000Hz and 850 DPI.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *braindamage*
> 
> My G303 seems to have more angle snapping when compared to my WMO, even when angle snapping is off in the Logitech drivers.
> 
> Subjectively speaking, drawing straight lines on the G303 and Avior feel much easier than on the WMO.


Can't software test for angle snapping? Didn't someone say they made their own to test such things?

When looking at pictures of the 3310, after it came out, it looked like it had some amount of angle snapping. Same thing with the older sensors from PixArt. So I wouldn't be surprised if it does have some.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What annoys me in particular in this case is people calling this the best sensor ever, which is simply deceit and misinformation.


Pot meets kettle.


----------



## pinobot

I have no problem using the surface tuning feature.
Tested it on a white painted MDF table, and after tuning it worked. Also tested it on a Steelseries I-1 transparent glass mousemat and it also worked.
I'm curious about how this surface tuning works, before the tuning the mouse didn't work at all on the table or the glass mousemat. Does it just change the light output?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I have no problem using the surface tuning feature.
> Tested it on a white painted MDF table, and after tuning it worked. Also tested it on a Steelseries I-1 transparent glass mousemat and it also worked.
> I'm curious about how this surface tuning works, before the tuning the mouse didn't work at all on the table or the glass mousemat. Does it just change the light output?


I think the 3310 changes the LED brightness when changing the LOD settings. I don't know about the 3366, I assume it is a little different.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's backed up by all the graphs people have posted in this thread and the 502 thread.


my 303 graphs look just as good as thw best finalmouse graphs.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> my 303 graphs look just as good as thw best finalmouse graphs.


Who cares, since the shape is atrocious and definitely can not be held for more than 30 minutes at a time before muscle-cramp sets in







.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Who cares, since the shape is atrocious and definitely can not be held for more than 30 minutes at a time before muscle-cramp sets in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It's actually the opposite for me.

I always need an extended adaptation period of about an hour of playtime before it starts feeling natural, whereas G100/Aurora/FK1&2/Sensei/... shapes just feel natural instantly after getting used to it for a while (I tried the G303 for about 2 weeks).

Which is annoying.

But I cannot stress this enough: Logitech their experiment isn't a failure imo, their shape is. I would gladly fork out the cash for similar quality/performance if it was a proper shape.

(the only thing I would like to see added in the drivers is the ability to *increase* LOD... manually with a slider perhaps)


----------



## lookitdisnub

The shape felt weird to me at first but after a day or two it feels quite good actually. I have fairly large hands though.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Is it possible to swap out the G303's bottom with the G302's I think the smaller sensor hole reduces the amount of light so it affects lift off distance.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Who cares, since the shape is atrocious and definitely can not be held for more than 30 minutes at a time before muscle-cramp sets in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Though it is far from my favourite shape, I can use it all day without cramps.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im having a bad case of clown cursor because the LOD is far too low is it possible to swap the G302's underside with the G303's? Bigger sensor hole=more light=higher LOD?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Though it is far from my favourite shape, I can use it all day without cramps.


I start with cramps and then my hand somehow loosens up lol


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Pot meets kettle.


What is the evidence that the 3366 is the best sensor?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> my 303 graphs look just as good as thw best finalmouse graphs.


Isn't this yours?
http://cdn.overclock.net/4/47/47d6b083_tTJIKCR.png


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I start with cramps and then my hand somehow loosens up lol


That's how it is with you, young whipper-snappers, able to tolerate holding sea urchins in your fists but as you get older, the muscles and ligaments really start to hurt.

I give it time before you start feeling the PAIN of Logitech's new Star Wars mice







.


----------



## qsxcv

thats at 1000hz
finalmouse would look similar at 1000hz


----------



## cmaki2008

I got a g9x that was barley used with weights and both grips in box if anyone wants to trade for a g303. I got no idea where to post this if anyone knows of any sites that do stuff like this please let me know.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aleexkrysel*
> 
> Why is it better than the X5 in your opinion?


Sensorwise, this is an interesting question, a question I still can't quite put my finger on. But I believe it's mostly related to weight distribution&shape than smoothing or whatever. Or It just might be that both sensors have different imaging rate or reference imaging area that's creating the different "feel". I honestly think both sensors are flawless.

In the end, I just like G303 shape better.


----------



## Clyq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> That's how it is with you, young whipper-snappers, able to tolerate holding sea urchins in your fists but as you get older, the muscles and ligaments really start to hurt.
> 
> I give it time before you start feeling the PAIN of Logitech's new Star Wars mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Honestly, when I first took a look at this mouse I asked myself who on earth would design a mouse with such "ergonomics". Here's my explanation of the shape:

If you claw or fingertip, the edges on the left and right < > let your pinky and thumb latch on with very little effort.
If you palm, like myself, you want more "ass" out of your mouse. But somehow, this mouse just works (dependant on your hand size, imo). My hand is 17cm and the butt of it stabs into the palm of my hand, but allows my thumb and pinky to wrap around the sides well enough to give me better accuracy than if the butt was well rounded. Now, if your fingers are longer, you could and probably would find yourself in pain.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I think it's more annoying to imply that your opinions are absolute.


I totally agree.

Speculating on graphs like they're crystal balls doesn't further your case either.

Also on another note, I didn't had any "spinning out" issues either on my QcK+. I previously did Surface Tuning on LGS.


----------



## Clyq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I start with cramps and then my hand somehow loosens up lol


I think it's the sweat that gives you a better grip


----------



## metal571

This forum has the unique ability to take any decent mouse and claim it's the worst thing ever made.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Hold your horses.
> I just got my G303, LOD on it after tuning is higher compared to my X5's medium setting after tuning.
> So I'm guessing lowest LOD on earth isn't really 3366's forte as you think. It's probably around 0.5-0.6 milimeters after tuning, a reasonable LOD.
> 
> I'll write my first impressions of g303 later in the day.
> 
> Meanwhile, have a pic:


I think you wagged the tail before the horse.
My Lowest LOD on earth G502 is from me putting two stacks of 0.6mm mouse feet on it, for 1.2mm of feet. The default feet are 0.6mm.

BTW I'm at the literally absolute limits of the accurate tracking LOD.
1.2mm is about as high as you can do and still keep accurate tracking at 1800 DPI.

Default (0.6mm) feet won't track at 1 DVD (1.2mm). Add 0.6mm of feet to the 1.2mm and you get 1.8mm=won't track..
Since two stacks of mouse feet is 1.2mm and that tracks, it looks like the hard cutoff for tracking is 1.4-1.5mm.

People are used to using Deathadders for #CD's.
But the deathadder had the mouse feet area indented INTO The mouse by a few mm fractions, so if hyperglides were 0.5mm, then the real hard LOD (from mouse feet to the actual mouse belly) was like 0.3mm.

G502 (don't have a G303) has the feet surface area flush with the actual surface (with a raised boundary, maybe 0.2mm at the edge to 'guide' the feet), so a 0.6mm foot is actually raising the mouse by 0.6mm.


----------



## Brightmist

That should be around about X5 on lowest settings.

In any case, for people slightly lifting/tilting their mouse (especially for fingertip users who don't lift their wrist from pad when swiping) to decrease the amount of friction between their mouse feet and pad (like me), extremely low LOD can be uncomfortable or just plain make the mouse unusable and it would be best to have a setting on software.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> thats at 1000hz
> finalmouse would look similar at 1000hz


Did you post one at 500hz?

I don't think I've seen another mouse with that double line. That's unique to the 3366 from what I've seen.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Speculating on graphs like they're crystal balls doesn't further your case either.


That's not what's happening.

The graphs show us a visual representation of our mouse performance.


----------



## Atavax

the most annoying thing is the lack of respect for people with different points of view. You would think some adults in this forum were 2 year olds...

Saying they're lieing or calling them names because they have a different set of beliefs, is only succeeding in discrediting yourself.

I also think that if you provide feedback in a respectful manner to Logitech, that its more likely that any possible problem get resolved.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> This forum has the unique ability to take any decent mouse and claim it's the worst thing ever made.


Lets be honest, how many in here starts to blame the mouse when they suck at a game?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Lets be honest, how many in here starts to blame the mouse when they suck at a game?


I think it's more the fact that this subforum should be renamed to 'Gamers with OCD United'


----------



## thatgold

I want 3366 sensor in a larger design, something like g400-ish. Please logitech make it happen, I have big hands and the g502 gives me hand cramps. I'm sure if I used the 303 I would create a singularity trying to grip something so small.

I used to love logitech in their older designs from the g5 to the g400, it was perfect for larger hands... why do they now make mice for pixies?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thatgold*
> 
> I want 3366 sensor in a larger design, something like g400-ish. Please logitech make it happen, I have big hands and the g502 gives me hand cramps. I'm sure if I used the 303 I would create a singularity trying to grip something so small.
> 
> I used to love logitech in their older designs from the g5 to the g400, it was perfect for larger hands... why do they now make mice for pixies?


Yeah, it seems to be a new thing among all the gaming companies.

The rival gets really thin at the front causing cramps, all the FK and AM versions are so thin and cause cramps, aurora, KPM, lots of SS mice, and of course recent logitech mice.

Also, I'm still waiting for evidence from all the people saying the 3366 is the best sensor. Because so far it seems like I've got the best evidence on my side. Which is ironic since it's been the people on the other side saying that my claims are the ones that are baseless.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Also, I'm still waiting for evidence from all the people saying the 3366 is the best sensor. Because so far it seems like I've got the best evidence on my side. Which is ironic since it's been the people on the other side saying that my claims are the ones that are baseless.


You have zero evidence, just like anybody else who does not have dedicated testing equipment. Everything you say is based on assumptions of what kind of MouseTester results _should_ be optimal related to your perception of the mice you had.

The evidence is not really publicly available I guess, but the 3366 is the most accurate sensor with the least speed related accuracy variance out of all sensors on the market today. It was obvious on the test bench I saw in Lausanne where they compared the response curve of the mouse to the engine characteristics.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> It's actually the opposite for me.
> 
> I always need an extended adaptation period of about an hour of playtime before it starts feeling natural, whereas G100/Aurora/FK1&2/Sensei/... shapes just feel natural instantly after getting used to it for a while (I tried the G303 for about 2 weeks).
> 
> Which is annoying.
> 
> But I cannot stress this enough: Logitech their experiment isn't a failure imo, their shape is. I would gladly fork out the cash for similar quality/performance if it was a proper shape.
> 
> (the only thing I would like to see added in the drivers is the ability to *increase* LOD... manually with a slider perhaps)


This is exactly how I feel about the mouse currently. The shape isn't natural so I need an extended warmup. I wouldn't fault anything else.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't think I've seen another mouse with that double line. That's unique to the 3366 from what I've seen.


The DeathAdder 2013 had a pair lines, too, IIRC.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The DeathAdder 2013 had a pair lines, too, IIRC.


Not mine: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1550_50#post_23694822
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You have zero evidence, just like anybody else who does not have dedicated testing equipment. Everything you say is based on assumptions of what kind of MouseTester results _should_ be optimal related to your perception of the mice you had.
> 
> The evidence is not really publicly available I guess, but the 3366 is the most accurate sensor with the least speed related accuracy variance out of all sensors on the market today. It was obvious on the test bench I saw in Lausanne where they compared the response curve of the mouse to the engine characteristics.


Just because other people have yet to see for themselves that my analysis of the mousetester graphs are correct, doesn't make it subjective assumptions.

Speed related accuracy variance is far from the only aspect that contributes to sensor quality/performance. *If* they *genuinely* believe they have the best performing sensor on the market, they are missing something big. FM's got them beat by miles. And Razer's got em beat with the 4g too.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thatgold*
> 
> I used to love logitech in their older designs from the g5 to the g400, it was perfect for larger hands... why do they now make mice for pixies?


Maybe it's the end of us, the BIG dinosaurs as we stroll past our loved G500's and G400's because there will never be anymore shapes like that again







.

Have to get use to holding these NEWER mice with two fingers only, how sad it has become.......


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You have zero evidence, just like anybody else who does not have dedicated testing equipment. Everything you say is based on assumptions of what kind of MouseTester results _should_ be optimal related to your perception of the mice you had.
> 
> The evidence is not really publicly available I guess, but the 3366 is the most accurate sensor with the least speed related accuracy variance out of all sensors on the market today. It was obvious on the test bench I saw in Lausanne where they compared the response curve of the mouse to the engine characteristics.


You mean the tracking quality test at low speed? Did they also showed you those tests with other mice than a G502?

For the sake of argument, saying the 3366 is is the most accurate sensor because Logitech showed some curves that say so is not exactly evidence.

I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis trust on the mouse tester graphs.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Not mine: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1550_50#post_23694822


Here's a test done via MouseTester and a DeathAdder 2013 showing multiple lines: http://www.overclock.net/t/1335226/review-of-the-deathadder-2013/300_10#post_22775330


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Not mine: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1550_50#post_23694822
> Just because other people have yet to see for themselves that my analysis of the mousetester graphs are correct, doesn't make it subjective assumptions.
> 
> Speed related accuracy variance is far from the only aspect that contributes to sensor quality/performance. *If* they *genuinely* believe they have the best performing sensor on the market, they are missing something big. FM's got them beat by miles. And Razer's got em beat with the 4g too.


You feel the FM beats it, I don't. It's your subjective experience. Those are also only assumptions you make, or let's call them hypothesizes, you have no proof that they are correct.

And I stated speed related accuracy variance because that's the toughest one to achieve. Some mice do well at low speeds but lose accuracy at higher speeds. The 3366 is accurate at any speed. It also has raw tracking without any smoothing.

You claim that it is not accurate while a test comparing sensor output to actual input clearly shows it is. Everything you think the MLT04 or the 3310 does better is just feeling.

And don't get me wrong, I think the 3310 is good enough already, the MLT04 probably too at lower speeds, the difference to the 3366 can probably only be experienced by machine testing, because it is well out of the range of human perception. You guys here just kid yourself thinking that you have superhuman abilities.
The much bigger factors here are probably shape, software/firmware, PC setups themselves and user bias.

Between 3366, 3310 and 3988 I wouldn't care which one was used, because they can all be perfectly fine when the rest of the criteria fit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> You mean the tracking quality test at low speed? Did they also showed you those tests with other mice than a G502?
> 
> For the sake of argument, saying the 3366 is is the most accurate sensor because Logitech showed some curves that say so is not exactly evidence.
> 
> I think you guys are putting a little too much emphasis trust on the mouse tester graphs.


I meant accuracy at higher speeds. The test bench did speeds up to 7 m/s (iirc) and had direction changes at 40g, the sensor followed the engine characteristics perfectly. Of course it is only evidence to me because I saw it with my own eyes, it's not publicly released further than the event back in November.
I'd still say a setup like this is the only way to truly test accuracy. That's why I don't read much into the graphs.


----------



## vinzbe

OK. You mean that big arm. I'm a bit cautious with their claims (not saying they lie) but their test machines are impressive.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vinzbe*
> 
> OK. You mean that big arm. I'm a bit cautious with their claims (not saying they lie) but their test machines are impressive.


No, I mean the turntable thing. They have a disc spinning under the sensor. Similar to Sujoys setup but far more accurate. The big arm was only for the G402 because of the gyro.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Also, I'm still waiting for evidence from all the people saying the 3366 is the best sensor. Because so far it seems like I've got the best evidence on my side. Which is ironic since it's been the people on the other side saying that my claims are the ones that are baseless.


I have no issue with you sharing opinions, but the software graphs don't exactly prove anything other than certain anomalies with data and frames. Output can easily be skewed. (certain users have pointed this out).

While I would love to discuss technical aspects, it's up to logitech to provide further information.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> That should be around about X5 on lowest settings.
> 
> In any case, for people slightly lifting/tilting their mouse (especially for fingertip users who don't lift their wrist from pad when swiping) to decrease the amount of friction between their mouse feet and pad (like me), extremely low LOD can be uncomfortable or just plain make the mouse unusable and it would be best to have a setting on software.


This is exactly my problem. I wish Logitech could implement a LOD adjustment in their LGS


----------



## hza

Seriously, Graph Man... Tell your brain to come back from vacation. Do you really believe FinalMouse as company would get something "better" than Logitech being more than 30 years on the market? Leting all your performance perception aside...


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> This forum has the unique ability to take any decent mouse and claim it's the worst thing ever made.


that's what i gathered reading through the last 3 pages.


----------



## metal571

I just frankly find it hard to believe how much people blame the equipment rather than themselves...and then also go as far as to say the professionals are hindered by super tiny details like smoothing? Like, really? Are you in fnatic or some other team? Do you play professionally? Because if you did, you probably wouldn't care as much as you do now. It just needs to be good enough, not absolutely perfect. This is common knowledge around here but all I see nowadays on this forum is debating and huge fire and brimstone conversations about tiny issues being game-performance-shattering.

I urge someone to please find me a specific play in CS where the mouse was 100% the bottleneck...


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I urge someone to please find me a specific play in CS where the mouse was 100% the bottleneck...
















SteelSeries Rival best mouse 2k15. (I'm just kidding if someone didn't understand)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SteelSeries Rival best mouse 2k15. (I'm just kidding if someone didn't understand)


Oh right that early firmware lol


----------



## Atavax

I mean, i can understand people being annoyed by the acceleration in some sensors or the prediction or a low max speed or the smoothing in some mice, but come on. For other minor faults, you can find them and report them to the company and hopefully fixes will be made, but a sensor with no acceleration, prediction, smoothing, and the highest max speed is a very good sensor. I move fast enough where i got the KPM and the FK2 to malfunction. I haven't gotten the g303 to malfunction. Even if it doesn't happen often, its nice to not have to worry about my sensor malfunctioning because my movement is too fast.

As for shape, the discussion reminds me of the cm storm spawn. I think its impossible for a company to release a claw mouse with a new shape and not have a decent segment of the community complain heavily about the shape. Its light, build quality is great and for its weight the build quality is insane, it glides well, and for most people that don't refuse to change their grip, it is quite comfortable.


----------



## TriviumKM

If we're going be feel, then the sensor in the 303 feels better than every implementation I've tried so far: DA 3.5; Spawn; DA 2013; Savu; FK1; KPM; Avior 7K.

I noticed how much more accurate it felt in game immediately.

Edit: Shape and length wise the 303 works pretty well with my fingertip/claw grip. Only thing I would change is the left side of the mouse; I would make it like the spawns left side.


----------



## Abacus1234

I think I perform equally well with the g302. Mostly because I don't think I ever reach speeds above 3m/s where I would notice the g303 advantage. Honestly, the g302/303 just has a really good shape for me. I have gone back and forth to some more ergonomic mice, and I perform worse even after getting used to them. I find this shape so easy to pick up and move. I totally get why some people don't like it, especially if they are used to ergonomic mice, but for me, its perfect. I still don't think there is a good reason to get this mouse over the g302 if you are like most people and never get super fast speeds.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> As for shape, the discussion reminds me of the cm storm spawn. I think its impossible for a company to release a claw mouse with a new shape and not have a decent segment of the community complain heavily about the shape. Its light, build quality is great and for its weight the build quality is insane, it glides well, and for most people that don't refuse to change their grip, it is quite comfortable.


Funny you mention that because the CM Storm Spawn is the most comfortable mouse I've ever used, with the G303 in second.

Honestly shape/weight, clicks, cable, etc. can and IMO should be the deciding factor for people these days. In the era of the 3310 where manufacturers generally see optical as the way to go, it is very rare that we actually get a lemon sensor-wise. Compare that to not two years ago, where every other mouse was some janky 3090 implementation with crazy LOD or a laser that would perform terribly for low-sens players or otherwise had some kind of bizarre MCU interpolation or software or angle snapping or cheap TTC main switches... the list goes on.

It's not that we shouldn't push companies to continue improving, but the deepest potholes and pitfalls in this bumpy road to mouse perfection have been filled.

As for the 303 mousetester graphs, I'm pretty sure we've now established that the over/under thing is idiosyncratic to OS and various registry fixes? And the general smoothness is related to mousetester's own velocity calculation, where counts/ms graphs are much smoother...


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprecision*
> 
> As for the 303 mousetester graphs, I'm pretty sure we've now established that the over/under thing is idiosyncratic to OS and various registry fixes? And the general smoothness is related to mousetester's own velocity calculation, where counts/ms graphs are much smoother...


I think the best way to prove otherwise, for people not convinced this is the case is to do is use mouse tester with it working fine with 1 mouse and then poorly with the g303 with the same system and post the graphs from both. And if 2-3 people could do that, i think it would definitely warrant further attention. Sorry if thats been done, with 170 pages, i'm not reading every post.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Did you post one at 500hz?
> 
> I don't think I've seen another mouse with that double line. That's unique to the 3366 from what I've seen.


check my previous posts where i ask you to guess which mouse or something

as i said before the double line in mousetester is related to the match between sensor framerate and usb polling.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I just frankly find it hard to believe how much people blame the equipment rather than themselves...and then also go as far as to say the professionals are hindered by super tiny details like smoothing? Like, really? Are you in fnatic or some other team? Do you play professionally? Because if you did, you probably wouldn't care as much as you do now. It just needs to be good enough, not absolutely perfect. This is common knowledge around here but all I see nowadays on this forum is debating and huge fire and brimstone conversations about tiny issues being game-performance-shattering.
> 
> I urge someone to please find me a specific play in CS where the mouse was 100% the bottleneck...


Well put, and basically how I feel about the situation, too. People keep demanding ridiculous things out of these mice because they _want_ (keyword "want") to believe that their mice are holding them back. But, let's be real now... at some point people have to realize that, ultimately, how they perform depends on them.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Well put, and basically how I feel about the situation, too. People keep demanding ridiculous things out of these mice because they _want_ (keyword "want") to believe that their mice are holding them back. But, let's be real now... at some point people have to realize that, ultimately, how they perform depends on them.







If you don't demand better, you won't receive better. If you allow companies to still profit when trying less, they will try very little.

You assume everyone here is blaming their decent mice for their failures. How do you know if they are bad players? I don't see why people call others bad players because they want to buy better performing equipment from companies that can give it to them.

A decent mouse may not hold you back from reaching your average performance. However, a better mouse can make it much easier to obtain. Maybe it isn't about making a player better...


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *braindamage*
> 
> My G303 seems to have more angle snapping when compared to my WMO, even when angle snapping is off in the Logitech drivers.
> 
> EDIT: Paint Tests
> 
> G303
> 
> 
> Avior 3.38
> 
> 
> WMO
> 
> 
> Subjectively speaking, drawing straight lines on the G303 and Avior feel much easier than on the WMO.


400dpi on all?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't demand better, you won't receive better. If you allow companies to still profit when trying less, they will try very little.
> 
> You assume everyone here is blaming their decent mice for their failures. How do you know if they are bad players? I don't see why people call others bad players because they want to buy better performing equipment from companies that can give it to them.


I'm not trying to say it's bad that people want better sensors. But the issues at this point are so miniscule in reality compared to mice of yore, and yet they are portrayed as if they make the mouse completely unusable on this forum. Everything is incredibly negative.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'm not trying to say it's bad that people want better sensors. But the issues at this point are so miniscule in reality compared to mice of yore, and yet they are portrayed as if they make the mouse completely unusable on this forum. Everything is incredibly negative.


The forums are filled with negative because there is no need to post when you are enjoying what you have. The better things get the more minuscule complaints will become until there isn't any. If you don't see much posts you must be doing something right. Of course people just like to complain and fight because it entertains them, so that will never disappear.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Here's a test done via MouseTester and a DeathAdder 2013 showing multiple lines: http://www.overclock.net/t/1335226/review-of-the-deathadder-2013/300_10#post_22775330


Hmm, I tried setting my 4g to 1000hz via my motherboard (because I'm not installing synapse), but it didn't work. I'd be curious to know whether mine would look like that at 1000hz too, or whether his looked like that because it was prior to the firmware update that supposedly fixed the smoothing problem.

Oh, I just noticed his graphs are xcounts rather than xvelocity. I just asked for some xvelocity 500 & 1000hz graphs in that thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> You feel the FM beats it, I don't. It's your subjective experience.


Well probably because of that other inconsistency in the tracking, which also makes the mouse unusable for me currently. And you mentioned that the shape might be affecting your judgement too. But in terms of pure "rawness", every reviewer I've seen has agreed that the FM feels substantially more "raw" than other mice.

Have you tried the updated firmware? I won't get around to that for probably a week.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Those are also only assumptions you make, or let's call them hypothesizes, you have no proof that they are correct. Everything you think the MLT04 or the 3310 does better is just feeling.


Even before mousetester, it was known in the competitive CS community that the MLT04 mice were the top tier. And now that we have mousetester that shows us hard data about our mouse performance, the accusation of "just feelings, no proof" holds no water.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> It also has raw tracking without any smoothing.


Yet your own mousetester graphs showed that the 3366 performed differently on different CPI settings. Which contradicts Logitech's own definition of "smoothing", which was something like "post processing at higher CPI settings to reduce jitter".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> the difference to the 3366 can probably only be experienced by machine testing, because it is well out of the range of human perception. You guys here just kid yourself thinking that you have superhuman abilities.
> The much bigger factors here are probably shape, software/firmware, PC setups themselves and user bias.


I don't know if you're referring to the sensor architecture or each implementation. If you're referring to architecture, we have no evidence either way. If you're referring to implementation then I'm not sure why you aren't able to tell the difference, but in CS 1.6 there is a very obvious difference between sensors/mice, and the differences correlate exactly with mousetester data.

I've addressed your claims of "other attributing factors" before, but now with the DA tests that I did, it pretty much completely invalidates that accusation since they are both the same shape, and mousetester data shows the sensors perform very differently, and backs up my ingame analysis.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Seriously, Graph Man... Tell your brain to come back from vacation. Do you really believe FinalMouse as company would get something "better" than Logitech being more than 30 years on the market? Leting all your performance perception aside...


I'm pretty sure the FinalMouse guys said they used to work for one of the big companies.

But it could even be as simple as them using the most raw sensor state directly from the manufacturer, vs other companies adding a lot of post processing that harms sensor performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I just frankly find it hard to believe how much people blame the equipment rather than themselves...and then also go as far as to say the professionals are hindered by super tiny details like smoothing? Like, really? Are you in fnatic or some other team? Do you play professionally? Because if you did, you probably wouldn't care as much as you do now. It just needs to be good enough, not absolutely perfect. This is common knowledge around here but all I see nowadays on this forum is debating and huge fire and brimstone conversations about tiny issues being game-performance-shattering.
> 
> I urge someone to please find me a specific play in CS where the mouse was 100% the bottleneck...


Don't be silly









Every single time you try to kill someone in CS you are bottlenecked by your mouse's performance. The better you are, the less affected you might be, but there is certainly evidence of pro's aim fluctuating from mouse to mouse. Popups posted some evidence of that earlier.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> check my previous posts where i ask you to guess which mouse or something
> 
> as i said before the double line in mousetester is related to the match between sensor framerate and usb polling.


Wasn't that 250hz?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> guess how this mouse performs


this is 500hz


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> this is 500hz


Thanks.

So it looks like the double line IS still there, just not as obvious.


----------



## braindamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 400dpi on all?


Yes, with the WMO at 500 hz and the rest at 1000 hz.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't demand better, you won't receive better. If you allow companies to still profit when trying less, they will try very little.
> 
> You assume everyone here is blaming their decent mice for their failures. How do you know if they are bad players? I don't see why people call others bad players because they want to buy better performing equipment from companies that can give it to them.
> 
> A decent mouse may not hold you back from reaching your average performance. However, a better mouse can make it much easier to obtain. Maybe it isn't about making a player better...


I see it from a different perspective:

Maximum potential. A flawless mouse will make you perform at your maximum potential more. Not that people are necessarily playing bad now, it's just a desire for more. Competitive nature vs normal: They want to be faster, better and smarter. This goes for themselves and their hardware.

But frankly I don't see anything wrong with the G303 except its shape and a personal desire if it were possible with firmware updates to manually change the LOD to something higher.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't demand better, you won't receive better. If you allow companies to still profit when trying less, they will try very little.
> 
> You assume everyone here is blaming their decent mice for their failures. How do you know if they are bad players? I don't see why people call others bad players because they want to buy better performing equipment from companies that can give it to them.
> 
> A decent mouse may not hold you back from reaching your average performance. However, a better mouse can make it much easier to obtain. Maybe it isn't about making a player better...


Well... how far are those improvements in mice going to take you? I agree mice can be improved, but in the end, your true potential is limited by you and yourself only. You can make it seem as if mice can make you into a cyborg or something.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> But in terms of pure "rawness", every reviewer I've seen has agreed that the FM feels substantially more "raw" than other mice.


The biggest mystery to me is, both the G402 and Finalmouse are very similar in terms of fast response, while the G302, which is the G402 sensor except with a G502 MCU attached to it, feels less responsive with higher post processing. Both the G302 and G402 are supposed to have zero smoothing, but control vastly different. I've never installed the software for my G302 even once either, it's straight from the factory.

The Finalmouse, on the other hand, is very responsive, but doesn't feel like it has the fine precision of other sensors. I have not tried the new NDA firmware yet for it.

As for G502, ever since it came out I said the firmware or software for it was haunted. Each time you install the software, change settings, then uninstall it, it feels like a completely different mouse each time. Sometimes it will feel super responsive and accurate for fine pixel movements, other times it will feel like a not very responsive, blunt instrument.

The only theory I could come up with for why I posted back a couple of pages:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1590#post_23695247


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> So it looks like the double line IS still there, just not as obvious.


yes

based solely on the available mousetester plots there is no substantial evidence that the finalmouse performs better than the 3366 mice


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yes
> 
> based solely on the available mousetester plots there is no substantial evidence that the finalmouse performs better than the 3366 mice


That's a stretch... but I guess it depends how you define "substantial". There's clearly a difference. The FM graphs and my 4g graphs are tighter and don't have the double curve. And so far, tighter curves correlate with better in game performance across all mice.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's a stretch... but I guess it depends how you define "substantial". There's clearly a difference.


they're both 3-5% fluctuations. i'm too lazy to elaborate the reasoning behind that statement

i don't want to just tell you that "correlation doesn't imply causation" but in this case it's really something to think about what these plots mean in the context of mouse motion when you're playing cs1.6 or using the desktop. for instance as cs 1.6 runs at 100fps, in each frame you're adding up 5/10 samples of mouse motion for 500/1000hz mice. and as someone mentioned previously, mousetester plots say pretty much nothing about the absolute responsiveness of a mice, so the fact that you find the mouse showing smoother curves to feel more responsive could really be anything from coincidence or confirmation bias or many other things.

if anything i find the diagonal lines at the top of these plots
http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/360#post_23387430
more concerning as it reminds me of the aurora's behavior with the mcu acting weirdly every ~15ms or so


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *braindamage*
> 
> My G303 seems to have more angle snapping when compared to my WMO, even when angle snapping is off in the Logitech drivers.
> 
> EDIT: Paint Tests
> 
> G303
> 
> 
> Avior 3.38
> 
> 
> WMO
> 
> 
> Subjectively speaking, drawing straight lines on the G303 and Avior feel much easier than on the WMO.


I don't know what's up with your results.
I Just did a g502 test with my puretrak talent and 1800 DPI and my 1.2mm of mouse feet.
The last 4 bottom horizontal lines were at 450 DPI.

As you can see, there's NO angle snapping whatsoever. Looks identical to your WMO (MLT04).



*edit* here's another result with angle snapping on. Light and day.


----------



## mikesn

Some random thoughts...

I tried the g303 and I sincerely don't understand how this passed through ergonomic testing. I have palm grip tendencies (palm/claw at times) but no matter how you hold this mouse it seems legitimately uncomfortable. The left side actually feels nice enough, but the right is bizarre and it feels like there's no comfortable place to put my ring finger. I've probably tested 20+ mice (and used to frankenstein mice) and this is honestly one of the least comfortable I've felt. Of course YMMV since taste is a personal preference, but the ergonomics of this mice are baffling to me.

If they wanted a lightweight mouse to house their 3366 and appeal to competitive FPS players why not just use the mx310/G3/G100s shape since it's arguably the most popular for that demographic both past and present? It's the simplest, lightest ambidextrous shape they've consistently produced that's obviously well-loved. Why the hell would you put the sensor in a mouse with such an obviously controversial shell? To me it's baffling but obviously it has to be working from a money-making perspective otherwise they wouldn't be doing stuff like this.

Regarding the 3366 and performance in general, I suspect differences in perceived performance have to do with a combination of shape, familiarities and actual in-game settings. I suspect something like the 3366 would probably shine more at higher DPI/sensitivity, and indeed higher DPI on this mouse felt better than the Deathadder 2013 I have, but once you scale back to the far more practical 400-800 DPI and low-ish in game sensitivity most of the advantages of these next generation sensors are largely abolished, possibly even reversed. E.g. my 2013 Deathadder, contrary to many claims to the contrary, feels every bit as responsive as something like the 3366 to me at lower DPI/sensitivity.

It would be more interesting to me if some of these gaming companies looked into optimizing sensor performance in the ~400-800 DPI range and low-ish in game sensitivity, which represents probably 95%+ of competitive FPS players, rather than extending the DPI range into patently absurd territory. As far as I can discern there really isn't more accurate than being pixel perfect, and you don't "lose" pixels even at 1080p even by ~800 DPI for most sane in-game sensitivities.


----------



## dmbr

I'm finally accustomed to the grip and I feel I'm performing better with this mouse than with any other. Switching over from the EC2a.

Grats Logitech.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikesn*
> 
> Some random thoughts...
> 
> I tried the g303 and I sincerely don't understand how this passed through ergonomic testing. I have palm grip tendencies (palm/claw at times) but no matter how you hold this mouse it seems legitimately uncomfortable. The left side actually feels nice enough, but the right is bizarre and it feels like there's no comfortable place to put my ring finger. I've probably tested 20+ mice (and used to frankenstein mice) and this is honestly one of the least comfortable I've felt. Of course YMMV since taste is a personal preference, but the ergonomics of this mice are baffling to me.
> 
> If they wanted a lightweight mouse to house their 3366 and appeal to competitive FPS players why not just use the mx310/G3/G100s shape since it's arguably the most popular for that demographic both past and present? It's the simplest, lightest ambidextrous shape they've consistently produced that's obviously well-loved. Why the hell would you put the sensor in a mouse with such an obviously controversial shell? To me it's baffling but obviously it has to be working from a money-making perspective otherwise they wouldn't be doing stuff like this.
> 
> Regarding the 3366 and performance in general, I suspect differences in perceived performance have to do with a combination of shape, familiarities and actual in-game settings. I suspect something like the 3366 would probably shine more at higher DPI/sensitivity, and indeed higher DPI on this mouse felt better than the Deathadder 2013 I have, but once you scale back to the far more practical 400-800 DPI and low-ish in game sensitivity most of the advantages of these next generation sensors are largely abolished, possibly even reversed. E.g. my 2013 Deathadder, contrary to many claims to the contrary, feels every bit as responsive as something like the 3366 to me at lower DPI/sensitivity.
> 
> It would be more interesting to me if some of these gaming companies looked into optimizing sensor performance in the ~400-800 DPI range and low-ish in game sensitivity, which represents probably 95%+ of competitive FPS players, rather than extending the DPI range into patently absurd territory. As far as I can discern there really isn't more accurate than being pixel perfect, and you don't "lose" pixels even at 1080p even by ~800 DPI for most sane in-game sensitivities.


ABOUT FREAKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LONG ago in the G502 thread, I MADE A POST ABOUT THIS SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING. And not only did I get labeled a troll, everyone on these forums started RIPPING me apart!!
When I first bought my g502 and set it to the same dpi as my Deathadder black edition (1800 dpi), I noticed that it was HARDER to do very tiny 1 pixel movement corrections on the G502, while the Deathadder black edition had literally -instant- left/right response at 1800 DPI. I then tested my old 3G (Version 3) 1800 deathadder--the one with the s3688 sensor (not the 3.5 dpi one) and noticed that the 3G deathadder seemed to react like the G502 did. The 3.5G/Black edition had much faster micro pixel movements.

When I set the G502, however, to a very high DPI-like higher than 6000 (around 10,000'ish), the G502 also reacted instantly to tiny subpixel movements, and felt identical to the black edition at 1800 dpi! But the G502 was simply too sensitive up here (and too much jitter). At 12000 (max) DPI, the G502 reacted faster than the black edition to 1 pixel movements, but was unusuable (you could actually sometimes see the pointer vibrate from left to right on the puretrak talent without touching the mouse...even blowing on the mouse would make the pointer move sometimes. Putting -any- sort of pressure on the mouse (or even anything that could cause 'resonance' in the desk, would make the pointer move.

So it was quite clear that the DA Black edition (3.5G) sensor had processing that adjusted for extremely fine pixel movements at 1800 DPI to improve accuracy, while the DA 3G does not. What I do NOT know is is if this type of 'change' affects the overall tracking of the mouse or makes it feel less "Raw" I don't know how the MLT04 reacts at its one (native) 400 DPI; I would have liked to try the intellimouse, DA 3.5G, 3G, and G502 to see which one reacts faster at that low DPI but I got rid of my IME 3.0 many years ago...(wishing I hadn't...)

It really pissed me off to no end when people verbally harassed and namecalled me for posting this stuff back then.
Only r0ach himself didn't flame me for it.

Now someone else gets my results and everyone's like..."chill".


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikesn*
> 
> Some random thoughts...
> 
> I tried the g303 and I sincerely don't understand how this passed through ergonomic testing. I have palm grip tendencies (palm/claw at times) but no matter how you hold this mouse it seems legitimately uncomfortable. The left side actually feels nice enough, but the right is bizarre and it feels like there's no comfortable place to put my ring finger. I've probably tested 20+ mice (and used to frankenstein mice) and this is honestly one of the least comfortable I've felt. Of course YMMV since taste is a personal preference, but the ergonomics of this mice are baffling to me.
> 
> If they wanted a lightweight mouse to house their 3366 and appeal to competitive FPS players why not just use the mx310/G3/G100s shape since it's arguably the most popular for that demographic both past and present? It's the simplest, lightest ambidextrous shape they've consistently produced that's obviously well-loved. Why the hell would you put the sensor in a mouse with such an obviously controversial shell? To me it's baffling but obviously it has to be working from a money-making perspective otherwise they wouldn't be doing stuff like this.
> .


I agree. The Logitech employees on this forum like to consistently worry about their profit margins and mention how expensive it is for a completely new shell so why spend that money to develop something like this? If they were going to invest money into a new shell instead of using an older shape of their own then why not make something like a Sensei?The Sensei shape might not be the best for some people like me but after trying many mice I consider it the most welcoming to all grips and is actually ambidextrous so you wouldn't be leaving lefties out in the cold either. My shell preferences are Mico/LMO>Aurora>G100s>Kinzu>Sensei so it wouldn't be my favorite shape but I would absolutely buy one and be happy with it instead of ignoring it like I did with the G303.


----------



## qsxcv

just went back and forth between the g303 and the wmo a couple times in paint. obviously weight, shape, grip, and mouse feet are very different, but i also think that it's harder to draw straight lines with the wmo's mlt04. it seems to pick up a lot more vertical motion detail when moving horizontally


----------



## Atavax

obviously the rgb lighting isn't for us. I think the reason why they didn't just take the more traditional shell is because they needed to make it appeal to other demographics as well.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

So apparently the 4g's graphs look pretty similar to the 3366's. - http://www.overclock.net/t/1335226/review-of-the-deathadder-2013/300_50#post_23703760

The main difference I see is that the lower curve on the 1000hz 3366 graphs are longer than the 4g's.

EDIT: also, the DA 4g and 3366 feel very different, regardless of one being better than the other. So it's interesting that they look so similar. I guess this along with the perfect FM graphs not showing the tracking inconsistency in the FM, go to show that there are definitely things that aren't picked up by mousetester.


----------



## Atavax

have you compared the feel of the deathadder 4g to other mice with the 3988 sensor?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> have you compared the feel of the deathadder 4g to other mice with the 3988 sensor?


Not yet. I've been waiting for the evga x5 to start shipping with the new firmware, then I'll probably test it.

The x5 graphs look pretty similar though: http://www.overclock.net/t/1540167/evga-x5-optical-wow/250_50#post_23610468 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1540167/evga-x5-optical-wow/300_50#post_23613080


----------



## Brightmist

I'm bored of typing claw-hold fingertip grip everytime I try to explain how I hold the mouse and from now on out I'm just gonna call it clawtip grip.

G303 is a godsend for my clawtip grip. I just put my thumb on the left edge of the front countour and ring-finger on the right and voila:




It fits like a glove.

I also disabled the LED breathing effect and my hand stopped sweating. Not sure if it's a placebo or if the light makes the shell surface heat up.


----------



## braindamage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know what's up with your results.
> I Just did a g502 test with my puretrak talent and 1800 DPI and my 1.2mm of mouse feet.
> The last 4 bottom horizontal lines were at 450 DPI.
> 
> As you can see, there's NO angle snapping whatsoever. Looks identical to your WMO (MLT04).


How fast did you swipe? I drew those lines slowly, trying to draw them as straight as possible.

I would describe the 3366/3310 angle snapping as mild when compared to an MLT04 mouse. The "deadzone" seems to be slightly higher on my other mice than compared to the WMO. Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it would be nice if Logitech addressed this with a firmware update.


----------



## nhc511

Is there any tape for increase side friction of the mouse? Like the rubber side of Razer Taipan?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nhc511*
> 
> Is there any tape for increase side friction of the mouse? Like the rubber side of Razer Taipan?


Electric tape like the mouse in my sig?


----------



## pinobot

Had a few issues with the mouse yesterday.
In a game the mouse looked at the ground once, got an instant MX500 flashback. I suddenly remembered what i like about laser mice.
Once during scrolling through a webpage he mouse seemed to scoll down permanently, i tried to scroll back up but it stuttered a bit and wouldn't let me. Like a key was stuck, but the wheel is optical, so...
Once while LGS was running the buttons on the mouse reverted to the default profile, i looked in LGS and nothing seemed out of place and the problem disappeared.


----------



## qsxcv

does anyone else find the low LOD annoying?
when i spray in csgo i basically control it by contracting my fingers which lifts up the rear of the mouse quite a bit. previously with the ninox aurora which has quite a high lod, it would still track fine, but with the g303 it oftens stops responding in the middle of a spray which is incredibly frustrating.

i did a surface tuning with some additional height on the mousefeet but it's still a little too low for me

and for some reason i did not have this problem at all last week


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *braindamage*
> 
> How fast did you swipe? I drew those lines slowly, trying to draw them as straight as possible.
> 
> I would describe the 3366/3310 angle snapping as mild when compared to an MLT04 mouse. The "deadzone" seems to be slightly higher on my other mice than compared to the WMO. Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it would be nice if Logitech addressed this with a firmware update.


Hmm
I swiped slowly. Quite slowly, actually, while maintaining a constant speed.
Can't really describe it. Maybe an inch a second?
I have to go slowly because if I swipe fast in paint, paint 'blurs' the lines you draw (if that makes sense).


----------



## nhc511

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Electric tape like the mouse in my sig?


I remember electric tape is not rubber, so its not help for increase friction. Look like a 100% rubber or a heavy textured side (like the sandy, matte paper) tape could help
I have try Artisan Teppeki : 
But the glue is not solid and wear out after 1 month


----------



## vinzbe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Hmm
> I swiped slowly. Quite slowly, actually, while maintaining a constant speed.
> Can't really describe it. Maybe an inch a second?
> I have to go slowly because if I swipe fast in paint, paint 'blurs' the lines you draw (if that makes sense).


If you click again on the pencil icon, it won't.


----------



## falcon26

Is the G302 just basically the same as the G303 minus the LED lighting stuff? Is the sensor the same etc etc..


----------



## Brightmist

G303 is supporting PMW3366 (G502's sensor), two extra feet on the sides so no wobble, a different cable and RGB lighting.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Is the G302 just basically the same as the G303 minus the LED lighting stuff? Is the sensor the same etc etc..


No, their sensors have a difference of roughly 3 meters per second (G302) versus 7 (G303).


----------



## mrvirtualboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Is the G302 just basically the same as the G303 minus the LED lighting stuff? Is the sensor the same etc etc..


The 302 uses a standard rubber cable, the AM010 sensor, and has just blue lighting. The 303 has a braided cable identical to the G502's, uses the 3366 sensor and has RGB lighting. As far as I know, those are the only differences.


----------



## falcon26

So the G302 has wobble? That sucks. Is it worth it to spend the Extra $30 for the G303 then? I want a Blue led anyway...


----------



## Melan

Well, if you do move above 3m/s at times, maybe yes.

I just received my G303. Once I'm done with work, gonna give it a test run.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> does anyone else find the low LOD annoying?
> when i spray in csgo i basically control it by contracting my fingers which lifts up the rear of the mouse quite a bit. previously with the ninox aurora which has quite a high lod, it would still track fine, but with the g303 it oftens stops responding in the middle of a spray which is incredibly frustrating.
> 
> i did a surface tuning with some additional height on the mousefeet but it's still a little too low for me
> 
> and for some reason i did not have this problem at all last week


Did you try setting it to factory default? Surface tuning is supposedly to lower LOD.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> So the G302 has wobble? That sucks. Is it worth it to spend the Extra $30 for the G303 then? I want a Blue led anyway...


If you have fast swipes then yes absolutely. Else the wobble may or may not affect you depends on how you use the mouse, but yes it's quite easy to get the 302 to tilt a bit the feet weren't the best choice.


----------



## Longasc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> So the G302 has wobble? That sucks. Is it worth it to spend the Extra $30 for the G303 then? I want a Blue led anyway...


If you don't exceed the malfunctioning speed of the G302's AM010 sensor version regularly, it's basically the same as the G303.

The G303 has a different braided cord, some don't like the cord of the G302 but I had no issue with it.
The "wobble" of the G302 is due to only two pads and the way you hold the mouse "in" your hand it's really a none issue, just something people can point their finger on and scream, nothing you would felt bothered by in actual usage.

Got a G303 by now, it's for me only a minor improvement over the G302. Who has a G302 already and doesn't like the shape won't like the G303 either, daaamn hard to predict...








But who already has a G302 and no issues with the sensor really should save himself the money and needs no G303 just because of the "G502" sensor PMW3366 (or so) in it.

But if I would buy a fresh new mouse, I would of course get the G303. Absolutely the Apex Predator mouse atm!


----------



## Melan

I don't like this cable. At all.

Shape works perfectly for me since I used G302 before, so yeah. Safari Sensor feels snappy compared to Internet explorer my FK1. Graphs are a mess so far, but I'm not done yet.


----------



## Thursday88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I don't like this cable. At all.
> 
> Shape works perfectly for me since I used G302 before, so yeah. Safari Sensor feels snappy compared to Internet explorer my FK1. Graphs are a mess so far, but I'm not done yet.


I agree, the cable keeps giving me resistance at the worst times. It seems like it's much stiffer and about 25% larger than my G502 cable when looking at them side by side.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I don't like this cable. At all.


What don't you like about it? Personally both the braided cables (from the g600 and the 502) of the current models are far far superior to their rubber coated counterparts (G302 and 402). Is the 303 cable different than the 600 and the 502? The rubber cables are much too stiff, they're barely pliable at all. Ironically the rubber cables suffer the problems that everyone complained about their previous braided cables (too stiff) which is why people wanted non-braided cables in the first place.

At least the braided cables are flexible, even if you don't like the braid.

The 302's was barely tolerable, the 402 was a disgrace. I'm honestly shocked they didn't put out a 403 before the 303 because that cable seriously needs a revision.


----------



## Melan

Tuned sensor to my Zero. Mouse malfunctions at 4.04 m/s according to enotus.
At default can't get it to malfunction at all. Couldn't get above 4.94 m/s without either running out of pad space or lifting it off into space. This mouse tried really hard to fly away.

I need a mid hardness Zero for this. This one is waaaay too soft.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> What don't you like about it?.


Well, first of all it's braided. Second, it's not as flexible as Zowie's. Third, it already came bent in an awkward way just like G500 after months of use. Forth, it's too fat.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, first of all it's braided. Second, it's not as flexible as Zowie's. Third, it already came bent in an awkward way just like G500 after months of use. Forth, it's too fat.


Zowie's cable is wrapped with copper strands. At least the cables I seen until they moved to the 3310.


----------



## Melan

I have EC1 eVo cable around and it's way better than one in 303.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Zowie's cable is wrapped with copper strands. At least the cables I seen until they moved to the 3310.


It's called shield or ground, and it's present in every cable. Usually it's the thick black wire.

Here's a WMO cable for example.


----------



## pran

The cable gets stuck on my Hayate and Otsu quite often. ******* annoying :/


----------



## Melan

Doesn't get stuck on my Zero though.


----------



## cheeselol

Mine will snag on the edge of my Hien. I put a little strip of masking tape over the top edge of the pad where the cord moves over it and I haven't had any more issues.


----------



## Melan

Putting borders near feet wasn't a good idea, Logitech.


----------



## fuzzybass

My mouse sucks because it doesn't make pancakes for me in breakfast.


----------



## CorruptBE

So that's what all that open space in the back is all about on the G303?? To attach my coffee/beer making machine?!


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> The cable gets stuck on my Hayate and Otsu quite often. ******* annoying :/


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cheeselol*
> 
> Mine will snag on the edge of my Hien. I put a little strip of masking tape over the top edge of the pad where the cord moves over it and I haven't had any more issues.


I ended up just putting a piece of scotch tape around my cord to stop it from snagging on the Hayate. I wish the cord was more like Zowies.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> So that's what all that open space in the back is all about on the G303?? To attach my coffee/beer making machine?!


Yes. There are no coffee/beer making machines in space. Gotta be prepared.

This sensor and buttons are a blessing for osu. I just can't do the same with my FK1. I had to replace stock feet with Hotline competition for G302 though.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Are you serious, dude?


Yea, 1cd LOD is low. I've had a mouse with low LOD as well as a deathadder (which sometimes lifted on one side when you swiped with it, dropping the max tracking speed from ~3.8m/s by 1-2m/s and causing occasional malfunctions)

i'd rather the mouse track a little bit too often and have to give a lot of input to make tracking stop, rather than losing tracking when i don't want to


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Did you try setting it to factory default? Surface tuning is supposedly to lower LOD.


obviously i did... the current profile has a slgihtly hgiher lod than the default though


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> So that's what all that open space in the back is all about on the G303?? To attach my coffee/beer making machine?!


It's actually a tea filter by default, but some people wants to drink coffee and you need much smaller holes for that...


----------



## Melan

Did some cable management, now it feels alright. Gotta stick cable holder onto my monitors back and tadaaa! - all good.


----------



## Sencha

Or ***amushi


----------



## cheeselol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> I ended up just putting a piece of scotch tape around my cord to stop it from snagging on the Hayate. I wish the cord was more like Zowies.


I guess manufacturers listen to their consumers who by-and-large request braided cables like they're the best solution. More people need to try Zowie cables: lightweight, flexible, non-snag.


----------



## semantics

Braided just looks fancier is all.


----------



## Melan

@Falkentyne How does 2 layers of feet work for you? I'm thinking about putting 0.5mm hyperglides on top of 0.6mm hotline feet.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Braided just looks fancier is all.


so... anyone interested in stripping off the braiding?


----------



## Mych

If the cord is the same as in G502, after stripping the braiding it'll be thinner and a more flexible than G302's cord. Not bad, not great. Zowie and old Logi cords are still better I think.


----------



## cheeselol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Braided just looks fancier is all.


Until it frays. Unless it looks like airport carpet (see KPM). It's subjective, but I think black rubber cords contribute a more polished look.


----------



## zb0t

Hey everyone, I own the G302, but when I turn around very fast my crosshair suddenly looks at the floor (my sens isn't even THAT much low, in CSGO sens 2.1 DPI 400, RAW input turned on), it's quite annoying, is it confirmed that this has been fixed with the G303? I'm going to order it as soon as I get the confirmation.

Thanks all.


----------



## sonskusa

personally I like zowie chords the best, never had a problem with one. the 303 braided is certainly better, but it seems to snag on more textured surfaces like my goliathus control which is more annoying than my 302 problems. doesn't have the same problem with my pcmr pad or shiden though.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> Hey everyone, I own the G302, but when I turn around very fast my crosshair suddenly looks at the floor (my sens isn't even THAT much low, in CSGO sens 2.1 DPI 400, RAW input turned on), it's quite annoying, is it confirmed that this has been fixed with the G303? I'm going to order it as soon as I get the confirmation.
> 
> Thanks all.


You probably hit the malfunction speed of the sensor with that sensitivity. You wont get this problem with the G303.


----------



## Melan

Lol that's not a bug. You just reached a malfunction speed when sensor is unable to track anymore. Its max speed is ~3 m/s. G303 has way higher speed limit so yeah, it's "fixed" so to speak.


----------



## zb0t

Yes I know it's not a bug but the malfunction speed, anyway thanks a lot







can't wait to get it, I just ordered!







Thanks again for the quick answers guys.


----------



## Melan

Idk why I saw "bug" there. Medication time!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> It's called shield or ground, and it's present in every cable. Usually it's the thick black wire.
> 
> Here's a WMO cable for example.


From what I remember, it was different than standard cables. It has a lot more copper than you would think. I can notice it on my white Zowie mice cables.

I don't have the pictures of the inside of the cables anymore.


----------



## SightUp

When will this mouse come to Best Buy?!!?!?!?!!


----------



## zb0t

Ouch, I forgot about the price when I put it in the shopping cart, 20€ higher than the G302, I hope I'm not going to be disappointed, that hurt my wallet a little


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> Ouch, I forgot about the price when I put it in the shopping cart, 20€ higher than the G302, I hope I'm not going to be disappointed, that hurt my wallet a little


If you like the shape, then no, you wont be disappointed.
The plus you get with this upgrade:
- better sensor
- flexible braided cord
- 2 little feet on the "sides", so it will not wobble
- RGB lighting

Just leave the Surface Tuning on factory default and you will be fine. This far, I'm loving mine.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cheeselol*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Braided just looks fancier is all.
> 
> 
> 
> Until it frays. Unless it looks like airport carpet (see KPM). It's subjective, but I think black rubber cords contribute a more polished look.
Click to expand...

Not really what the comp enthusiasts have been doing for years where you used to have to cut strip and individually sleeve cables if you wanted your comp to look fancy. When tech companies started preselling outwards braided cables only took awhile for mouse makers to catch on.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> I ended up just putting a piece of scotch tape around my cord to stop it from snagging on the Hayate. I wish the cord was more like Zowies.


I did that to my DeathAdder. It was causing too much of a problem for me. I had to tape the entire thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> @Falkentyne How does 2 layers of feet work for you? I'm thinking about putting 0.5mm hyperglides on top of 0.6mm hotline feet.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1536056/zowie-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/820_20#post_23690938


----------



## aayman_farzand

Is everyone getting constant polling rate at 1000hz? I tried mouse tester and there seems to be frequent variance between [email protected] and even up to 4ms. 500HZ is near constant at 2ms.


----------



## qsxcv

alright i'm starting to hate this mouse
heavy, weird shape, stupidly low lod, thick cable, snags on top edge of hayate, . the only comfortable way i can grip it is by tilting my hand by a good 15 degrees or so and my recoil control in csgo is completely fk'd by that and the low lod


----------



## marsCS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Is everyone getting constant polling rate at 1000hz? I tried mouse tester and there seems to be frequent variance between [email protected] and even up to 4ms. 500HZ is near constant at 2ms.


Mine has been rock solid at all rates.


----------



## DeMS

Got that itch to get this mouse twofold: Wanna get something that might finally work for me and want to support Logitech for doing this.

However, there's an issue that is an entry barrier for me: Shape.

Anyone who has a 303 who has had a Zowie AM, Abyssus (original model, not the 2014 version) , G502 or Roccat Savu, kind of fingertips or claws them, and found them a bit too narrow., if that's you, do you like your 303 from a shape perspective?

My problems with those mice were:

Savu: Too narrow where the thumb goes, kind of forced palm/claw in a weird way, I used to get tired of the feeling of the mouse quite fast and often.
Abyssus: Tried to grip it with fingers on both sides, but it only worked once out of ten times. It was impressive when it worked, uncomfortable when it didn't. Either too narrow, too low or a combination of both. The \_/ shape from the sides was ok, but made the mouse to be lifted at some swipes, thus forcing some accuracy loss. One of the best from what I had, even if it wasn't comfortable.
AM: A bit too narrow on the middle, ended up grabbing it a bit more towards the forward area next to the buttons, forcing the butt to almost hit my palm in a kind of awkward claw/fingertip grip, otherwise it was a fine shape. A bit harder to lift than Abyssus, but made for good swipes. My main gripe with it was the sensor, the scroll wheel and the click delay, not so much the shape, even if it wasn't exactly fitting my needs.
G502: I used to get cramps while using this mouse a while ago, it's a bit too narrow but found it was fine when I learned how to claw or fingertip it, now I don't dislike the shape. Yet it is not the most comfortable of mice and its absurd weight makes making high-speed swipes a chore -takes too long to speed up and too long to stop it because of inertia.
I've had lots of mice over the years, and after so many I don't feel quite comfortable with any of them anymore. Here I'm hoping that the weird shape of the 303 might help since most conventional designs seem to not to work that well for me.
Also, I just can't grip a DeathAdder or similar palm grip mice for too long, there's some sort of disconnect, where I feel all the time like I'm forcing my grip to the mouse, so it's not natural at all.

TL;DR
If you are one who finger tips or claw grips and never felt comfortable with other popular shapes because they're either too narrow, too low or the shape just does not work for you, do you find the 303 to be better than those?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> alright i'm starting to hate this mouse
> *heavy*, weird shape, stupidly low lod, thick cable, snags on top edge of hayate, . the only comfortable way i can grip it is by tilting my hand by a good 15 degrees or so and my recoil control in csgo is completely fk'd by that and the low lod


http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2014/08/blog-post_21.html

Length: 115mm

Length: 125mm

Length: 124mm

Length: 124mm

Length: 120mm

Length: 117mm


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> When will this mouse come to Best Buy?!!?!?!?!!


Answered your previous post about this http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1470#post_23689696


----------



## nhc511

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> Hey everyone, I own the G302, but when I turn around very fast my crosshair suddenly looks at the floor (my sens isn't even THAT much low, in CSGO sens 2.1 DPI 400, RAW input turned on), it's quite annoying, is it confirmed that this has been fixed with the G303? I'm going to order it as soon as I get the confirmation.
> 
> Thanks all.


My usually got that when play Deathmatch CS , with my Abyssus/Salmosa , their malfunction speed ~ 4,2 m/s. Cant believe how can Old school CS player play witch IE 3.0 (which speed~1.5 m/s)
Look like a 3366 or 3310 sensor mouse is a should have for CS gamer


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> alright i'm starting to hate this mouse
> heavy, weird shape, stupidly low lod, thick cable, snags on top edge of hayate, . the only comfortable way i can grip it is by tilting my hand by a good 15 degrees or so and my recoil control in csgo is completely fk'd by that and the low lod


I can't for the life of me figure out why people would complain about a low LOD. The thing has just a hair over 1cd lift off for me and that's perfect. I suppose you guys want to go back to the old 3cd lift off days? What benefit is there in a mouse that tracks when you lift it off the surface? If you're talking about your "fast swipes" or some other perceived technique developed through years of having to put up with garbage sensors that read 6" off the mat, then I don't know what would help you.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nhc511*
> 
> My usually got that when play Deathmatch CS , with my Abyssus/Salmosa , their malfunction speed ~ 4,2 m/s. Cant believe how can Old school CS player play witch IE 3.0 (which speed~1.5 m/s)
> Look like a 3366 or 3310 sensor mouse is a should have for CS gamer


We didn't flick our mice very fast because: 1) it is a bad habit that ruins precision, 2) it wouldn't make us go any faster than our sensitivity allowed, 3) it caused the MLT-04 to malfunction, 4) we know where the enemy is.


----------



## Atavax

he has some bad habbit where he lifts the back of his mouse sometimes.


----------



## zb0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nhc511*
> 
> My usually got that when play Deathmatch CS , with my Abyssus/Salmosa , their malfunction speed ~ 4,2 m/s. Cant believe how can Old school CS player play witch IE 3.0 (which speed~1.5 m/s)
> Look like a 3366 or 3310 sensor mouse is a should have for CS gamer


Hehe, yes it only happens when I play deathmatch, I don't remember it happened during a match, but to make sure it won't happen during a match I just ordered the G303. I don't know much about CS, but on Quake I know some people who used to play with the IE 3.0 and they also never had problems as far as I know.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I can't for the life of me figure out why people would complain about a low LOD. The thing has just a hair over 1cd lift off for me and that's perfect. I suppose you guys want to go back to the old 3cd lift off days? What benefit is there in a mouse that tracks when you lift it off the surface? If you're talking about your "fast swipes" or some other perceived technique developed through years of having to put up with garbage sensors that read 6" off the mat, then I don't know what would help you.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/1320_20#post_20713664
http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/1320_20#post_20717585


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I suppose you guys want to go back to the old 3cd lift off days?


Yes









I'm weird like that.

And there's someone else like me around here somewhere. I recognize his avatar instantly, I just always forget his name.

I also use the high LOD option on my FK2.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> @Falkentyne How does 2 layers of feet work for you? I'm thinking about putting 0.5mm hyperglides on top of 0.6mm hotline feet.


Works flawlessly on default factory tuning on my Puretrak Talent.
I did get rare random 'malfunctions (the snap to sky/ground thing) when I tuned it custom to the Talent with the 1.2mm feet, though. This did not happen with the 0.6mm distance at all.

Max PCS Seems to be slightly lowered. I was able to reach 6.20 m/s on both the .6mm and 1.2mm feet, but it took MUCH more effort and much faster super swipes to reach 6.2 m/s on the 1.2mm feet while the 0.6mm feet took a lot of effort (something you'd still never do normally) but was much less brutally hard to do.

I was able to easily get 5.13 m/s on both the 0.6mm and 1.2mm feet distances with the same effort.

Tracking quality is the same.

I only put the double layer feet on to eliminate the issue of the right side of the mouse scraping the pad if it's even tilted by a tiny amount (you know how the G502 has ridged rubberized sides for better grip, right ? Well the ridged pattern extends under the mouse instead of the surface changing to pure glossy smooth (Deathadder), so with the double stacked feet, there's more leeway to tilt the mouse slightly without the ridged right side (the side by the small triangle foot) touching the pad. I found it worth it.

Also seems like Hotline games performance feet are better for aluminum or aluminum micro-ridged pads like the Razer Exactmat while competition feet are better for smooth cloth pads like the Talent or Razer Mantis/Goliathus speed. The Hyperglides (Even the brand new ones on a backup) on my Deathadder Black and the Competition feet feel horrible on the Exactmat, while the performance hotline games feet (and the Logitech stock feet) feel fine.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I can't for the life of me figure out why people would complain about a low LOD. The thing has just a hair over 1cd lift off for me and that's perfect. I suppose you guys want to go back to the old 3cd lift off days? What benefit is there in a mouse that tracks when you lift it off the surface? If you're talking about your "fast swipes" or some other perceived technique developed through years of having to put up with garbage sensors that read 6" off the mat, then I don't know what would help you.


when i spray, i use my fingers to pull the mouse downwards and the rear lifts a bit into my palm. often midway in a spray the thing just stops responding and the recoil just goes all over the place


----------



## nhc511

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> We didn't flick our mice very fast because: 1) it is a bad habit that ruins precision, 2) it wouldn't make us go any faster than our sensitivity allowed, 3) it caused the MLT-04 to malfunction, 4) we know where the enemy is.


I guess u r using a mouse heavier than 100g. And who are "we"? Have u ever reach CAL I level? U know where enemy is when playing w 32 players in DMatch, and they spawn randomly?
U dont have a bad habit cause your mouse does not allow low sens or high speed, Time to change... so u are here , interested with 3366 sensor, right?


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> Answered your previous post about this http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1470#post_23689696


Oh, very good!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nhc511*
> 
> I guess u r using a mouse heavier than 100g. And who are "we"? Have u ever reach CAL I level? U know where enemy is when playing w 32 players in DMatch, and they spawn randomly?
> U dont have a bad habit cause your mouse does not allow low sens or high speed, Time to change... so u are here , interested with 3366 sensor, right?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nhc511*
> 
> My usually got that when play Deathmatch CS , with my Abyssus/Salmosa , their malfunction speed ~ 4,2 m/s. Cant believe how can *Old school CS player* play witch IE 3.0 (which speed~1.5 m/s)
> Look like a 3366 or 3310 sensor mouse is a should have for CS gamer


The heaviest mouse I used was the DeathAdder, but I switch to a EC2 soon after, even sooner I switched to an AM. Majority of the time I played with mice that weighed no more than 90g. The maximum weight I would accept for a symmetrical mouse is 90g if the mouse is 125mm/+ in length. The G302/3 is ~91g and only 115mm in length. With such a length I would want the mouse to weigh near 80g or less.

Old school CS players didn't have DM and gun game servers like today, that came later on. It was mostly aim maps and IRC scrims. By the way, you don't have to top frag in a DM, that isn't the point.

Flicking your mouse faster than your sensitivity allows increases the difficulty of stopping your crosshair on your target. People with very high sensitivity won't reach the speed limit of their sensitivity, but those players don't swipe with their arm much.

The max speed I reach is ~2.8m/s, which is rare for me. I am usually below 2.4m/s. 3090 mice were not an issue for my current play style and sensitivity. From 2000 until the DeathAdder I used a different sensitivity and play style.


----------



## Falkentyne

Many low sens players didn't just play CS.
They played Unreal Tournament 2004. Shock and LG (hitscan) were VERY important in that game. Low sens ruled.
Quake 3 was different. Due to the importance of the rocket, and the railgun wasn't used close unlike UT's shock (though still flak was usually used IF you had it unless you could land your combos), Quakers usually used medium sens or higher. Low sens with rocket spam didn't really work too well.

There were some pro players who used 60 cm/360. I got wicked sicked (losing 0-30) to one of them. Yes, you needed a mouse with a very high PCS for that. Deathadders worked. MLT04's (intellimouse 3.0/explorers) didn't.


----------



## nhc511

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The heaviest mouse I used was the DeathAdder, but I switch to a EC2 soon after, even sooner I switched to an AM. Majority of the time I played with mice that weighed no more than 90g. The maximum weight I would accept for a symmetrical mouse is 90g if the mouse is 125mm/+ in length. The G302/3 is ~91g and only 115mm in length. With such a length I would want the mouse to weigh near 80g or less.
> 
> Old school CS players didn't have DM and gun game servers like today, that came later on. It was mostly aim maps and IRC scrims. By the way, you don't have to top frag in a DM, that isn't the point.
> 
> Flicking your mouse faster than your sensitivity allows increases the difficulty of stopping your crosshair on your target. People with very high sensitivity won't reach the speed limit of their sensitivity, but those players don't swipe with their arm much.
> 
> The max speed I reach is ~2.8m/s, which is rare for me. I am usually below 2.4m/s. 3090 mice were not an issue for my current play style and sensitivity. From 2000 until the DeathAdder I used a different sensitivity and play style.


1. Faster than malfuction speed , not sensitivity (sensitivity does not acquainted here)
2.Im an old school player, but my old mouse is MX300, its sensor is so far better than IE30's
3.If u think 2.8m/s is enough then: dont say about what others need or about "bad habit", professional player always have bad habit, which u can not imagine; And of course : G303 is not need for u


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nhc511*
> 
> Is there any tape for increase side friction of the mouse? Like the rubber side of Razer Taipan?


Been looking into this as well.
There is this grip stuff from Steelseries.
http://steelseries.com/products/outlet (last one in the mouse section)
Shipping cost kills it for me.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm weird like that.
> 
> And there's someone else like me around here somewhere. I recognize his avatar instantly, I just always forget his name.
> 
> I also use the high LOD option on my FK2.


me?









I just think low LOD to the point where it's a threat of cutting off tracking when you didn't mean to cut off tracking is quite bad


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just think low LOD to the point where it's a threat of cutting off tracking when you didn't mean to cut off tracking is quite bad


No, I think he meant @dontspamme


----------



## Sencha

Sadly the shape has made me sell on this mouse. I didn't want to return it as to show Logitech a bit of support. Its a really good mouse and I think the shape is great for those that like it. If the edges were a little more rounded it would be perfect from me. Its a stunning little mouse though.... kind of miss it already but the shape sadly hurt my hand after a while in CSGO.


----------



## qsxcv

well
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> If the cord is the same as in G502, after stripping the braiding it'll be thinner and a more flexible than G302's cord. Not bad, not great. Zowie and old Logi cords are still better I think.


i stripped off a small portion near the usb connector. it's a hair thinner than the g302 cord and probably a bit more flexible. surface texture is identical


----------



## Aventadoor

Just got my G303!
And holy cow this shape is wierd, what on earth was they thinking?
The sides protrude way too much on the right side.


----------



## Aventadoor

Im suprised how jiggly it is.
Its not a very stable base...
Guess its not wide enough


----------



## Nivity

The only other mouse I had problems using was the MX518 because my hand cramped, the g302/3 is by far the worst shaped mouse in history for me.
Never had such cramps using a mouse, funny it's one of the widest mice aswell on the fattest part and the smallest on the butt.

Im hoping for a more normal shaped mouse still, or atleast a G100/g9x refresh.
Or that asus can actually release the sica, screw sidebuttons. Shape is 1000 times more important then anything else.

I'd rather use my g100s then g303 any day of the week.


----------



## Aventadoor

After playing some DM, Arena and Training_Aim I think I can get used to it.
Biggest problem is the little finger.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The only other mouse I had problems using was the MX518 because my hand cramped, the g302/3 is by far the worst shaped mouse in history for me.
> Never had such cramps using a mouse, funny it's one of the widest mice aswell on the fattest part and the smallest on the butt.
> 
> Im hoping for a more normal shaped mouse still, or atleast a G100/g9x refresh.
> Or that asus can actually release the sica, screw sidebuttons. Shape is 1000 times more important then anything else.
> 
> I'd rather use my g100s then g303 any day of the week.


Sica pretty much has the same shape as X5.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The only other mouse I had problems using was the MX518 because my hand cramped, the g302/3 is by far the worst shaped mouse in history for me.
> Never had such cramps using a mouse, funny it's one of the widest mice aswell on the fattest part and the smallest on the butt.
> 
> Im hoping for a more normal shaped mouse still, or atleast a G100/g9x refresh.
> Or that asus can actually release the sica, screw sidebuttons. Shape is 1000 times more important then anything else.
> 
> I'd rather use my g100s then g303 any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> Sica pretty much has the same shape as X5.
Click to expand...

Wish I could try out the X5 in a store or anything, but no one sells those mice in Sweden.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The only other mouse I had problems using was the MX518 because my hand cramped, the g302/3 is by far the worst shaped mouse in history for me.
> Never had such cramps using a mouse, funny it's one of the widest mice aswell on the fattest part and the smallest on the butt.
> 
> Im hoping for a more normal shaped mouse still, or atleast a G100/g9x refresh.
> Or that asus can actually release the sica, screw sidebuttons. Shape is 1000 times more important then anything else.
> 
> I'd rather use my g100s then g303 any day of the week.


So TRUE







.

But the mx518 is far more tolerable for me than the G302/303 series. Amazing how many people have requested constantly from them (Logitech) to release an updated G100S model using a 3366 sensor and that alone would move off the shelves 100 times faster than the current monstrosity.

Just goes to show the MORONS that sit as Bosses inside that Corporation, they get paid heaps of money yet not know what to supply to gaming fanatics anywhere on Earth.


----------



## Brightmist

Or it might just be that they're playing the long game and creating new designs that satisfy only a percentage of the market so they can keep moving new shells/units.


----------



## Mych

They try to make products that sell. A significant portion of the "gamer market" is evidently drawn to "spaceship mice". Logitech decided to do what others did a long time ago. Disappointing and frustrating, but at least the mice still perform rather well and even show a bit of innovation. No use yelling that they don't know what they are doing because they do know. Their decisions are pretty damn calculating at times. Energy is better spend on criticizing bad designs constructively and telling our fellow people what's wrong with those designs so they make educated choices (and thus companies have to accommodate them).


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> After playing some DM, Arena and Training_Aim I think I can get used to it.
> Biggest problem is the little finger.


For me the shape was fine in those settings. It was when I was in some intense matches that things felt pointy'er







Give a good shot though. Its a great mouse if you can deal with the shape. Going back to my FK1 after a week though felt like switching from high heels to slippers.......A feeling I'm extremely familiar with.


----------



## ghostlacuna

With all you hype and chatter about this mouse i went out and tried out a 303 to test the shape.

I can firmly say that while the mouse is good its not for me.

For me its so wide my thumb and pinky cant hold the mouse in a relaxed way and it forces my other fingers into an extreme claw finger grip.

Heck for me the 502 was a better shape


----------



## fuzzybass

Well, I just got the mouse in today, and after a few games of Dota 2... I'm just not a fan of the shape. Things may change, as I've only had this mouse for just a day, but as of right now, I'm not a fan.

Like other people have mentioned, I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they designed this. Don't they do product testing, at all? I fail to see how this passed any sort of testing without someone mentioning the shape.

With Logitech's newest series of gaming mice, it seems there's always one big deal-breaker:

1. G502 - the weight
2. G402 - the cord + gyroscope (no one cares about a gyroscope; they just want a good sensor)
3. G302/303 - the shape

It's almost as if they're purposefully gimping these mice to trick people into believing they need to buy more and more mice with each new generation. It's like they want people to say, "Oh wow, this mouse is great! But this one feature sucks, maybe I should try this other Logitech mouse. Oh, but wait! This has one bad feature, too, so I'll try this other one."


----------



## Aventadoor

^
Thats exactly what they are doing.

I'm kinda... well idk what do think of the G303...
I guess I have to live with it and just deal with the fact that there wont be a Sensei optical


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> 1. G502 - the weight
> 2. G402 - the cord + gyroscope (no one cares about a gyroscope; they just want a good sensor)
> 3. G302/303 - the shape


I do loathe subjective traits passed along as facts on this forum. Heck, even a contradiction on the G402 on something that is a fact!

Hopefully Logitech doesn't put too much emphasis on this place in the future.


----------



## Brightmist

Don't worry, Steelseries will surely release one with a proper sensor, jk.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The only other mouse I had problems using was the MX518 because my hand cramped, the g302/3 is by far the worst shaped mouse in history for me.
> Never had such cramps using a mouse, funny it's one of the widest mice aswell on the fattest part and the smallest on the butt.
> 
> Im hoping for a more normal shaped mouse still, or atleast a G100/g9x refresh.
> Or that asus can actually release the sica, screw sidebuttons. Shape is 1000 times more important then anything else.
> 
> I'd rather use my g100s then g303 any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> So TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> But the mx518 is far more tolerable for me than the G302/303 series. Amazing how many people have requested constantly from them (Logitech) to release an updated G100S model using a 3366 sensor and that alone would move off the shelves 100 times faster than the current monstrosity.
> 
> Just goes to show the MORONS that sit as Bosses inside that Corporation, they get paid heaps of money yet not know what to supply to gaming fanatics anywhere on Earth.
Click to expand...

Yeah because those plan mice with good sensors is what people buy...
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-PC-Gaming-Mice/zgbs/electronics/402052011
http://www.amazon.com/gp/most-wished-for/electronics/402052011/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_mw
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Computer-Mice/zgbs/electronics/11036491
Just because you can find a forum that fits your niche doesn't make your niche a cash cow.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I do loathe subjective traits passed along as facts on this forum. Heck, even a contradiction on the G402 on something that is a fact!
> 
> Hopefully Logitech doesn't put too much emphasis on this place in the future.


I hope you see the hypocrisy in your comment. You're passing off your subjective opinions about mine as fact.

Fact of the matter is, the cord on the G402 is an issue for a lot of people.
The weight of the G502 is an issue for a lot of people.
The shape of the G302/G303 is an issue for a lot of people.


----------



## popups

Why not start a poll thread asking G302/3 buyers if they like the shape? So far it appears it's rare to see someone that truly likes the shape, even some YouTube reviewers and review sites are not fans.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I hope you see the hypocrisy in your comment. You're passing off your subjective opinions about mine as fact.


I already know the angle you played. Let's see here:
Quote:


> Fact of the matter is


Let's see what facts you came up with!

*drum roll*
Quote:


> the cord on the G402 is an issue for a lot of people.


Subjective, especially as an owner. (and let's not forget your lousy sensor quote either but I won't pick at it right now)
Quote:


> The weight of the G502 is an issue for a lot of people.


Subjective. Also considering the Logitech history of the higher end series being heavier in weight this should have not been a surprise nor an issue.
Quote:


> The shape of the G302/G303 is an issue for a lot of people.


Once again, subjective.

I also suppose the handful of people who constantly post here are "a lot" as well. I suppose Logitech should have only brought in OCN posters for shape weight and sensor. Hint: The WMO exists already.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I already know the angle you played. Let's see here:
> Let's see what facts you came up with!
> 
> *drum roll*
> Subjective, especially as an owner. (and let's not forget your lousy sensor quote either but I won't pick at it right now)
> Subjective. Also considering the Logitech history of the higher end series being heavier in weight this should have not been a surprise nor an issue.
> Once again, subjective.
> 
> I also suppose the handful of people who constantly post here are "a lot" as well. I suppose Logitech should have only brought in OCN posters for shape weight and sensor. Hint: The WMO exists already.


I think you need a little help with reading comprehension there. Noting or observing that "X is an issue for a lot of people" is not subjective. It is an objective fact that can be verified with numbers.

Sure, I admit I don't have the numbers, but based on the posts I've read here in this forum, yes, a lot of people have complained about those issues.


----------



## hza

A lot of people don't know ocn.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I do loathe subjective traits passed along as facts on this forum. Heck, even a contradiction on the G402 on something that is a fact!
> 
> Hopefully Logitech doesn't put too much emphasis on this place in the future.


Disliking the G303 shape is indeed subjective.

But one thing which I've posted several pages earlier as a more constructive feedback isn't: Smoothing out angles, a more basic shape, following more natural curves = you will have a larger audience that "truly" likes your shape.

The DA is big, but it has smooth curves, it works. The Xai/WMO/Zowie mice, whether you like this specific mice or not... all these mice have 1 specific thing in common: natural curves, smooth, nothing "extreme".

Logitech basically forces their users to hold a mouse in specific places, these other mice don't, there's room for error. Not every hand is equal.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Disliking the G303 shape is indeed subjective.


Yes, disliking the G303 shape is subjective. But saying "X amount of people dislike the G303 shape" is NOT subjective.

Logitech is a business. They should care about the numbers.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I think you need a little help with reading comprehension there.


"Fact of the matter is", hmm, I dunno, seems like you tried to pass it off as a fact to me.








Quote:


> Noting or observing that "X is an issue for a lot of people" is not subjective. It is an objective fact that can be verified with numbers.


By all means, if you have it, prove it. Surely you have more than just OCN r0ach nuts as a sample size right? I'd say that the 500+ reviews on Amazon are better supported than the 50 people on OCN.
Quote:


> Sure, I admit I don't have the numbers, but based on the posts I've read here in this forum, yes, a lot of people have complained about those issues.


Oh, guess you don't...

Your other post was good until you started locking in other traits of the mouse as deal-breakers for the general populace. The mouse shape isn't for you, glad you figured that out. But lumping it in with other traits in your sarcastic rant on "almost there" design terrorizing the general public? I already know what you're getting at bub.


----------



## hza

To avoid that kind of bs talk there are statistics. As long as you don't know any statistics you can say everything you want, it won't matter. If G302/303 won't sell well enough, Logitech will fix that in next gen depending what the exact issue(s) were, I believe. At least that sounds logic or natural to me


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> To avoid that kind of bs talk there are statistics. As long as you don't know any statistics you can say everything you want, it won't matter. If G302/303 won't sell well enough, Logitech will fix that in next gen depending what the exact issue(s) were, I believe. At least that sounds logic or natural to me


Precisely this.


----------



## CorruptBE

Best odds we can hope is that Logitech's "experiment" with a higher end lightweight mouse succeeds in sales. Only then will they continue on this path and we'll get something in a less "pronounced" shape once.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> To avoid that kind of bs talk there are statistics. As long as you don't know any statistics you can say everything you want, it won't matter. If G302/303 won't sell well enough, Logitech will fix that in next gen depending what the exact issue(s) were, I believe. At least that sounds logic or natural to me


I hope they follow this logic.

If not they'll most likely "shelf" the whole high end lightweight mice project again.

Tbh to me the G303 is this:



So close Logitech... so close...


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> "Fact of the matter is", hmm, I dunno, seems like you tried to pass it off as a fact to me. whistle.gif


You still don't get it. Re-read the clause following the "Fact of the matter is" - that clause is not a subjective statement.
Quote:


> By all means, if you have it, prove it. Surely you have more than just OCN r0ach nuts as a sample size right? I'd say that the 500+ reviews on Amazon are better supported than the 50 people on OCN.


If r0ach was the only one complaining, yea, I'd agree with you and say, there aren't that many people complaining. But this forum is pretty big and this thread in and of itself has almost 200 pages. That's good enough for me.
Quote:


> Your other post was good until you started locking in other traits of the mouse as deal-breakers for the general populace. The mouse shape isn't for you, glad you figured that out. But lumping it in with other traits in your sarcastic rant on "almost there" design terrorizing the general public? I already know what you're getting at bub. wink.gif


Again, reading comprehension. I didn't say these issues were issues for everybody who owns the mice. I just said "a lot".

I think you're just sour that someone's criticizing a mouse that you own, honestly.
Quote:


> To avoid that kind of bs talk there are statistics. As long as you don't know any statistics you can say everything you want, it won't matter. If G302/303 won't sell well enough, Logitech will fix that in next gen depending what the exact issue(s) were, I believe. At least that sounds logic or natural to me


I wasn't making a blanket statement that so and so issues were absolute, objective issues. I was just noting that it is an issue for "a lot" of people. It is just an observational statement, that "X number of people" seem to be having these issues.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Precisely this.










Yea, we WILL see how Logitech responds. I hope you're seeing the "Do you like the G303 shape?" poll right now, because it's 11-2 towards "No".


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> You still don't get it. Re-read the clause following the "Fact of the matter is" - that clause is not a subjective statement.


There is nothing to get. I caught you already. Sure numbers themselves aren't subjective, but you don't have that to back your statement up.

And don't be foolish, "a lot" is a vague term and subjective too.

I already know what you're trying to do.








Quote:


> If r0ach was the only one complaining, yea, I'd agree with you and say, there aren't that many people complaining. But this forum is pretty big and this thread in and of itself has almost 200 pages. That's good enough for me.


So I suppose out of the presumably tens of thousands of purchases the lower amount here complaining is the gold standard for ya? Good to know.
Quote:


> Again, reading comprehension. I didn't say these issues were issues for everybody who owns the mice. I just said "a lot".


Humm, let's revisit your sarcastic remark:
Quote:


> It's almost as if they're purposefully gimping these mice to trick people into believing they need to buy more and more mice with each new generation. It's like they want people to say, "Oh wow, this mouse is great! But this one feature sucks, maybe I should try this other Logitech mouse. Oh, but wait! This has one bad feature, too, so I'll try this other one."


Boy oh boy! Traits you don't like, sarcastically stating Logitech is gimping their mice on purpose so people (thee people!) should keep buying iterations?

... actually, let's not revisit it so you can hang in there baby.








Quote:


> I think you're just sour that someone's criticizing a mouse that you own, honestly.


There are things I like and don't like about my mouse, definitely. Overall a bad mouse? Not really, the sensor is perfect and I like the grip (sans the right side). I get the great tracking of an AM010 and the major con of a low PCS is fixed through Fusion Engine. It made sense for me to try it. But if OCN had its way the mouse is never to be considered because of misinformation, such as your statement about nobody caring about the sensor, or that it isn't accurate, and so on.

I don't like the stiff wheel, the right side, and I'd like a bit more space for three fingers on top.

As for a mouse Idon't own, I loathe the G303 shape personally, but I'm not gonna say it's a bad mouse either, nor that Logitech are fools or whatever for deciding on that form factor because ya know, shape is subjective.








Quote:


> I wasn't making a blanket statement that so and so issues were absolute, objective issues.


Sure you did. and I quote:
Quote:


> 2. G402 - the cord + gyroscope (no one cares about a gyroscope; they just want a good sensor)











Quote:


> I was just noting that it is an issue for "a lot" of people. It is just an observational statement, that "X number of people" seem to be having these issues.


In the grand scheme of things, what counts as "a lot"? That in itself is subjective. Hence my issue with it.









Secondly, you can't even come up with X value.








Quote:


> Yea, we WILL see how Logitech responds. I hope you're seeing the "Do you like the G303 shape?" poll right now, because it's 11-2 towards "No".


Because OCN is the only place that matters? My sides, they are splitting. Someone help this man.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I hope you're seeing the "Do you like the G303 shape?" poll right now, because it's 11-2 towards "No".


I might just buy one to give my own user experience/vote... If I do buy G302 or G303, I will also buy an Avior 7000 and FK1. Only one will survive.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The only other mouse I had problems using was the MX518 because my hand cramped, the g302/3 is by far the worst shaped mouse in history for me.
> Never had such cramps using a mouse, funny it's one of the widest mice aswell on the fattest part and the smallest on the butt.
> 
> Im hoping for a more normal shaped mouse still, or atleast a G100/g9x refresh.
> Or that asus can actually release the sica, screw sidebuttons. Shape is 1000 times more important then anything else.
> 
> I'd rather use my g100s then g303 any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> So TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> But the mx518 is far more tolerable for me than the G302/303 series. Amazing how many people have requested constantly from them (Logitech) to release an updated G100S model using a 3366 sensor and that alone would move off the shelves 100 times faster than the current monstrosity.
> 
> Just goes to show the MORONS that sit as Bosses inside that Corporation, they get paid heaps of money yet not know what to supply to gaming fanatics anywhere on Earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah because those plan mice with good sensors is what people buy...
> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-PC-Gaming-Mice/zgbs/electronics/402052011
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/most-wished-for/electronics/402052011/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_mw
> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Computer-Mice/zgbs/electronics/11036491
> Just because you can find a forum that fits your niche doesn't make your niche a cash cow.
Click to expand...

Never said it was.
You do know the G302/3 is among those that sell like crap right?
So why not just make it like the old once then? They will still sell like crap compared to the rest of the mice.

They will neveroutsell the most popular mice anyway.


----------



## springrolls

I just hope that logitech chooses in the future not to alienate people with a "different" shape just to make what is more or less a "fashion statement".

If you want to stand out rgb lighting/flashy colors is a much more inclusive method that I doubt most people would care about


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Disliking the G303 shape is indeed subjective.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, disliking the G303 shape is subjective. But saying "X amount of people dislike the G303 shape" is NOT subjective.
> 
> Logitech is a business. They should care about the numbers.
Click to expand...

So you polled like 30 people on ocn i'm sure that sample size is representative of the entire target audience for logitech.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> You do know the G302/3 is among those that sell like crap right?


can you source this with actual numbers?
im hard pressed to believe this with out hard evidence, sales numbers, showing that it actually has sold like crap.

otherwise please don't make some blanket statement like this again. i have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> So you polled like 30 people on ocn i'm sure that sample size is representative of the entire target audience for logitech.


http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/moba-gaming-mouse-g302
Quote:


> Daedalus Prime Precision Strike
> Accurate, Responsive, and Durable
> 
> Designed with pro gamers, G302 Daedalus Prime™ MOBA gaming mouse is masterfully crafted as a precision gaming tool. Experience responsive design engineered to withstand the rigors of the highest tiers of professional gaming.


http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303
Quote:


> Designed for the Performance Enthusiast
> You asked, we listened
> 
> Logitech G took customer feedback from the community and used it to build a gaming mouse that meets the special performance needs of enthusiast gamers. We combined our highest-performing components, including the PMW3366 optical sensor, and put them in a lightweight, compact body.


How many pros? How many enthusiasts?


----------



## Clyq

Step 1: Buy the mouse
Step 2: Use the mouse
Step 3: Judge the mouse

It's marketed as a MOBA mouse. Most high level MOBA players use a claw type / hybrid grip. This mouse is designed around that. If you look at the professional scene for MOBAS, you'll see that it's mostly Asian males (who are known to be predominantly smaller in comparison to Caucasians) with claw grips. The people who want this mouse want to be like the professionals; simple as that. Logitech *did* their research.

I'm strictly an FPS gamer and I palm my mice. I had the original FK/ now the FK2 and it lacked a backend for me since it was too low but was just the right length for my hands. Looking at this mouse I thought it would be terrible fit. It's actually pretty good. The backend is high (however, narrow) and lets my small hands wrap around it with ease- gripping onto its side corners like intended. The ergonomics are fine as long as your hands are small enough.


----------



## Melan

I have a 19cm hand and no issues what so ever.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> You do know the G302/3 is among those that sell like crap right?
> 
> 
> 
> can you source this with actual numbers?
> im hard pressed to believe this with out hard evidence, sales numbers, showing that it actually has sold like crap.
> 
> otherwise please don't make some blanket statement like this again. i have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

So you think the mouse sell like G402, deathadder, g502 etc?
Think again.

No list anywhere listed g302 high.

Numbers, no. But you can see on pricesites, the biggest retailers etc.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> So you think the mouse sell like G402, deathadder, g502 etc?
> Think again.
> 
> No list anywhere listed g302 high.
> 
> Numbers, no. But you can see on pricesites, the biggest retailers etc.


i want a _*source*_, sales numbers from logitech stating that the mouse has sold like utter crap.
just because it hasn't sold more than a DA, which has been out for far, far longer, doesn't mean it has crap sales.

no more baseless posts please.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> There is nothing to get. I caught you already. Sure numbers themselves aren't subjective, but you don't have that to back your statement up.
> 
> And don't be foolish, "a lot" is a vague term and subjective too.
> 
> I already know what you're trying to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I suppose out of the presumably tens of thousands of purchases the lower amount here complaining is the gold standard for ya? Good to know.
> Humm, let's revisit your sarcastic remark:
> Boy oh boy! Traits you don't like, sarcastically stating Logitech is gimping their mice on purpose so people (thee people!) should keep buying iterations?
> 
> ... actually, let's not revisit it so you can hang in there baby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are things I like and don't like about my mouse, definitely. Overall a bad mouse? Not really, the sensor is perfect and I like the grip (sans the right side). I get the great tracking of an AM010 and the major con of a low PCS is fixed through Fusion Engine. It made sense for me to try it. But if OCN had its way the mouse is never to be considered because of misinformation, such as your statement about nobody caring about the sensor, or that it isn't accurate, and so on.
> 
> I don't like the stiff wheel, the right side, and I'd like a bit more space for three fingers on top.
> 
> As for a mouse Idon't own, I loathe the G303 shape personally, but I'm not gonna say it's a bad mouse either, nor that Logitech are fools or whatever for deciding on that form factor because ya know, shape is subjective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you did. and I quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, what counts as "a lot"? That in itself is subjective. Hence my issue with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, you can't even come up with X value.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because OCN is the only place that matters? My sides, they are splitting. Someone help this man.


Just... just... shut up.


----------



## metal571

Remember everyone, if it doesn't have an MLT04, you can't use it for anything, and it should be junked immediately! There are definitely no drawbacks to that sensor at all!


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Remember everyone, if it doesn't have an *MLT04*, you can't use it for anything, and it should be junked immediately! There are definitely no drawbacks to that sensor at all!


Overrated garbage!

(I wanted to do a oneliner







)

But seriously, it's useless for anyone needing a decently high malfunction speed.


----------



## zb0t

And I thought OC.net was better than this... Does it matter to anyone here that a specific model is being sold a lot or not that much at all?

It's all personal preference in the end, as long as a mouse doesn't hold you back and you get used to it and love it for what it is I don't understand how can people argue about mice... On ESR people still love the Microsoft MWO, the Intellimouse 3.0, there are people who love the Kinzu v1, the old Sensei, etc etc, everyone uses different mice... Cypher and Rapha use the MWO, Cypher used to play with the DA, the first Abysus, the dude is considered as Neo... and it's the same on CS... Anyway the Aurora from BST isn't even on par with the big companies out there and people even put its sensor into the MWO, the point is nobody really cares whether the Aurora or Rival or any mice out there will be a huge success. Just focus on something that *fits your style*, that's all that matters... For Quake I use the Kana v2 even though I used a MX 518 and DA 3/3.5G just before, because it just feels "better" for Quake *for me*, and for CS the Kana v2 just doesn't feel alright. I won't write an essay about it but you should understand, the shape etc play a bit part, I see many people hate the G302/303's shape, well I guess it's not a mouse for you, no need to say it's a crap mouse (despite some problems some people reported, all mice will have one thing that someone doesn't like about it at least). Technically the MWO isn't even on par with many modern mice yet you'd get owned badly by some of its users. Guess I was wrong about this community...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> And I thought OC.net was better than this


it's not. Not anymore.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> It's all personal preference in the end


Very few people understand and respect this here, trust me.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Remember everyone, if it doesn't have an MLT04, you can't use it for anything, and it should be junked immediately! There are definitely no drawbacks to that sensor at all!


but other than the malfunction speed, are there any drawbacks?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> but other than the malfunction speed, are there any drawbacks?


You mean like a single DPI step, and the fact that they've been out of production for years


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> but other than the malfunction speed, are there any drawbacks?


Too heavy, I don't like the shape/grip, no native 500hz, scroll wheel bug, scroll wheel too far back.


----------



## qsxcv

well i meant like the technical performance of the sensor... not the microsoft mice that they're in. personally i find it pretty amazing how well such an old "non-gaming" sensor performs for things like lod, surface compatibility, lack of prediction/angle-snapping, and pretty much everything except dpi and max speed


----------



## DTrinh09

Does anyone know how the warranty works with Logitech? Are there any warranties that you can purchase on top of the manufacturer's warranty that can cover cord damage from pets chewing on them? I'd like some assurance that this mouse will last for a few years instead of a few months because of my damn cat. The amazon page has 2 year warranty but I can't find the specific terms.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well i meant like the technical performance of the sensor... not the microsoft mice that they're in. personally i find it pretty amazing how well such an old "non-gaming" sensor performs for things like lod, surface compatibility, lack of prediction/angle-snapping, and pretty much everything except dpi and max speed


Max covered a big one I forgot - no native 500 or 1000 Hz without forcing it. Surface compatibility is probably cloth only, but it's been a while since I've actually used an MLT04. LOD is also not adjustable and not the lowest either.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DTrinh09*
> 
> Does anyone know how the warranty works with Logitech? Are there any warranties that you can purchase on top of the manufacturer's warranty that can cover cord damage from pets chewing on them? I'd like some assurance that this mouse will last for a few years instead of a few months because of my damn cat. The amazon page has 2 year warranty but I can't find the specific terms.


Just send them an email or call them, they're extremely good about RMAs.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> And I thought OC.net was better than this... Does it matter to anyone here that a specific model is being sold a lot or not that much at all?
> 
> It's all personal preference in the end, as long as a mouse doesn't hold you back and you get used to it and love it for what it is I don't understand how can people argue about mice... On ESR people still love the Microsoft MWO, the Intellimouse 3.0, there are people who love the Kinzu v1, the old Sensei, etc etc, everyone uses different mice... Cypher and Rapha use the MWO, Cypher used to play with the DA, the first Abysus, the dude is considered as Neo... and it's the same on CS... Anyway the Aurora from BST isn't even on par with the big companies out there and people even put its sensor into the MWO, the point is nobody really cares whether the Aurora or Rival or any mice out there will be a huge success. Just focus on something that *fits your style*, that's all that matters... For Quake I use the Kana v2 even though I used a MX 518 and DA 3/3.5G just before, because it just feels "better" for Quake *for me*, and for CS the Kana v2 just doesn't feel alright. I won't write an essay about it but you should understand, the shape etc play a bit part, I see many people hate the G302/303's shape, well I guess it's not a mouse for you, no need to say it's a crap mouse (despite some problems some people reported, all mice will have one thing that someone doesn't like about it at least). Technically the MWO isn't even on par with many modern mice yet you'd get owned badly by some of its users. Guess I was wrong about this community...


I'm not understanding this "my opinions are right, and yours are wrong" mentality here. Yes, I did say I don't prefer the G303 shape. Am I for some reason not allowed to say that? For the record, I gave my two cents about the mouse, and someone else hounded ME, and responded to MY post, about having so and so opinion, as if to say I'm not allowed to say I dislike the mouse shape. Saying "I don't like x, y, and z" is as much of an opinion as saying "I like x, y, and z".


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I'm not understanding this "my opinions are right, and yours are wrong" mentality here. Yes, I did say I don't prefer the G303 shape. Am I for some reason not allowed to say that? For the record, I gave my two cents about the mouse, and someone else hounded ME, and responded to MY post, about having so and so opinion, as if to say I'm not allowed to say I dislike the mouse shape. Saying "I don't like x, y, and z" is as much of an opinion as saying "I like x, y, and z".


Again, you found a shape that wasn't for you, and I gave congratz on it.

For a guy plugging in reading comprehension you sure do lack it yourself. :\


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well i meant like the technical performance of the sensor... not the microsoft mice that they're in. personally i find it pretty amazing how well such an old "non-gaming" sensor performs for things like lod, surface compatibility, lack of prediction/angle-snapping, and pretty much everything except dpi and max speed


The LOD on my 3.0 was a bit high for me. I added a 2nd pair of feet.

Also, I think the FM is actually even more "raw" than the MLT04.

I've only ever used cloth pads, so I'm not sure about the surface compatibility, but I have a clear glass desk and it actually tracks on that. Not really well.. but it does good enough for basic computer use.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Again, you found a shape that wasn't for you, and I gave congratz on it.
> 
> For a guy plugging in reading comprehension you sure do lack it yourself. :\


Call your post what you want. It was an accusatory, inflammatory post to me. These are some of the phrases coming from your posts:
Quote:


> I caught you already.


Quote:


> I already know what you're trying to do. rolleyes.gif


Quote:


> ... actually, let's not revisit it so you can hang in there baby. thumb.gif


Quote:


> My sides, they are splitting. Someone help this man.


You "having caught me" doing God knows what is a predominant theme of your posts. Pretty sure that's not "congratulatory".


----------



## Nilizum

My god.... I read some of the posts here and I think some people need to go back to school.

Regarding subjectivity and objectivity...

Mouse cable has drag = objective. Mouse cable is bad = subjective.

Mouse sensor has 5+m/s tracking = objective. Mouse sensor is bad = subjective.

Mouse weighs 150 grams = objective. Mouse is heavy = subjective.

Does not matter if it's a 99.999% disfavor to a certain aspect, if it is just disliked, then it is subjective.

The only thing one can do is give scientifically backed reason for why flaw is so and so and try to better something based on a human function or orientation.

In light of the G303, bad shape = subjective, but clearly there is a better solution based on hand orientation, but there will always be, because that statement is subjective. That's all there is to it.

People really need to STOP throwing around the words "objectivity" and "subjectivity" with bad/good factors and instead should relate to performance elements and performance elements alone, like speed or efficiency for example. It doesn't make your claim any more valid, just makes you look dumb.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> My god.... I read some of the posts here and I think some people need to go back to school.
> 
> Regarding subjectivity and objectivity...
> 
> Mouse cable has drag = objective. Mouse cable is bad = subjective.
> 
> Mouse sensor has 5+m/s tracking = objective. Mouse sensor is bad = subjective.
> 
> Mouse weighs 150 grams = objective. Mouse is heavy = subjective.
> 
> Does not matter if it's a 99.999% disfavor to a certain aspect, if it is just disliked, then it is subjective.


Ok, you are right about some of the things you say. But saying "X amount of people do not like said features of mouse" is NOT subjective. That is objective. It is a statement observing how many people do not like some feature of a mouse. That is an observable fact. It is like saying "30 million people returned their Toyota Camry's due to low satisfaction." Or it is like saying "100 million people turned away from the Catholic faith because of the Pope's actions".


----------



## Nilizum

Ok. X amount of people don't like an aspect. So? What the point here? Unless you're using that figure to relate it to something being _bad_(subjective), then I must really ask: So? You're right, that statement you said is objective. But for the third time, so?


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Ok. X amount of people don't like an aspect. So? What the point here? Unless you're using that figure to relate it to something being _bad_(subjective), then I must really ask: So? You're right, that statement you said is objective. But for the third time, so?


Right, exactly... what is the big deal about it? It wasn't me who has been hounding that point. It was SmashTV who was trying to be inflammatory towards me, constantly bringing the point up, and trying to make a big deal out of it.


----------



## Nilizum

Well guy, you said a statement like this:

"_It's almost as if they're purposefully gimping these mice to trick people into believing they need to buy more and more mice with each new generation. It's like they want people to say, "Oh wow, this mouse is great! But this one feature sucks, maybe I should try this other Logitech mouse. Oh, but wait! This has one bad feature, too, so I'll try this other one._"

That was probably a dealbreaker for SmashTV to chime in. There's always a feature that will suck to someone, even if it's a consensus based god-tier mouse... Because in real life things aren't ideal. Logitech isn't tricking anyone, it is the consumer who is tricking themselves.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Well guy, you said a statement like this:
> 
> "_It's almost as if they're purposefully gimping these mice to trick people into believing they need to buy more and more mice with each new generation. It's like they want people to say, "Oh wow, this mouse is great! But this one feature sucks, maybe I should try this other Logitech mouse. Oh, but wait! This has one bad feature, too, so I'll try this other one._"
> 
> That was probably a dealbreaker for SmashTV to chime in. There's always a feature that will suck to someone, even if it's a consensus based god-tier mouse... Because in real life things aren't ideal. Logitech isn't tricking anyone, it is the consumer who is tricking themselves.


Note the words "It's almost as if..." Keyword "_almost_". I wasn't making a definitive statement there. He was just choosing to take offense to something.

And you're pretty naive to think companies (even if it isn't Logitech) aren't capable and/or aren't willing to trick customers.


----------



## Aventadoor

My thoughts on G303!

Pros:

+ Excellent M1 & M2 buttons
+ Excellent sensor performance
+ Good weight
+ Good scroll

Cons:

- Bad feet - Should have rounded edges
- Shape - Its not really hindering performance, but its not very comfertable. Its not natural for your hand.
- Cable - Its really thick, almost like they just braided the original rubber cable (which they probably did?







)

Biggest issue with this mouse is the shape.
Its not hindering performance, yet it kinda is. Because of its very unatural grip, it kinda takes more effort to actually place your crosshair around.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Note the words "It's almost as if..." Keyword "_almost_". I wasn't making a definitive statement there. He was just choosing to take offense to something.
> 
> And you're pretty naive to think companies (even if it isn't Logitech) aren't capable and/or aren't willing to trick customers.


I already addressed that and even called it sarcastic. But it seems the sarcasm is lost and you're actually with that statement.

But hey if the big L is screwing customers I'd like to see that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Call your post what you want. It was an accusatory, inflammatory post to me. These are some of the phrases coming from your posts:
> 
> You "having caught me" doing God knows what is a predominant theme of your posts. Pretty sure that's not "congratulatory".


Im sure you'll find my post where I said that very thing about the shape (you are reading after all riiiiight?) and yes there is congrats on finding out for yourself if you like the shape or not.

And yes, I did pounce for those statements that you tried to pass off into fact. It's that way of thinking that keeps the misinformation around here going.

Nilizum hit the nail on the head.

Lastly, I feel like we cluttered the thread. I'll gladly take it to PM.


----------



## hza




----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Logitech isn't tricking anyone, it is the consumer who is tricking themselves.


I'd have to disagree with that.

At best Logitech is getting feedback from ignorant casuals. Now these types of people might make up the largest portion of consumers, and therefore Logitech is finding out what makes them buy a certain mouse, and then making that mouse.

However, Logitech is definitely ignoring the most knowledgeable consumers, who's ideal mouse looks somewhat like a g100s with side buttons & ~70g weight.

That being the case, it really annoys me how much this forum grovels over Logitech mice. 1000+ comments in less than a month about 1 mouse that most people say they dislike... yet tons of people on this forum are buying it... what does that tell Logitech? That they can release whatever the ignorant casuals look for, because even the more knowledgeable people will buy it and then just complain after. Why would Logitech care about your complaints when you keep giving them money no matter what they do? You even helped promote the idea that the 120g, 12000cpi 502 was the best mouse on the market.

For me it's completely understandable for Logitech to make the decision to make fluff gear for that large target market. What's not understandable is how much the people on this forum still support and promote them.


----------



## Nunex

Everyone here either bought it directly from Logitech site or Amazon.com? I only get it available at 31 March


----------



## hza

Kohler, when will you understand that not everyone is on low-sens and cloth? You're definitely not one of the more knowledgeable guys around here. You're just bias and believe your opinion represents everyone else. Long story short, I hope no brand will ever listen to people like you.


----------



## thizito

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Kohler, when will you understand that not everyone is on low-sens and cloth? You're definitely not one of the more knowledgeable guys around here. You're just bias and believe your opinion represents everyone else. Long story short, I hope no brand will ever listen to people like you.


I dont like Kohler, since he claims "pro" player, and its really nothing.

BUT. I completly agree with him.. logitech is getting info from casuals.
And that is not bad for the logitech, they will still sell.

If we want something LESS casual.. yes wmo / 3.0 / g3 shape please plox.

Because it have the best weight for the size, best grip for most games, best everything.

And you looks like a casual. A ****in LoL player like r0ach

Idk why casual people in OCN, want the best sensor, best precision..
To play, ?Chess? LoL?


----------



## Mych

Well, I'm sure someone at Logitech is aware of the shape concerns by now. Whether that affects anything is another matter, but it will be a while before a response of any kind can materialize in a new product. Who knows how long ago they designed the current shells.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'd have to disagree with that.
> 
> At best Logitech is getting feedback from ignorant casuals. Now these types of people might make up the largest portion of consumers, and therefore Logitech is finding out what makes them buy a certain mouse, and then making that mouse.
> 
> However, Logitech is definitely ignoring the most knowledgeable consumers, who's ideal mouse looks somewhat like a g100s with side buttons & ~70g weight.
> 
> That being the case, it really annoys me how much this forum grovels over Logitech mice. 1000+ comments in less than a month about 1 mouse that most people say they dislike... yet tons of people on this forum are buying it... what does that tell Logitech? That they can release whatever the ignorant casuals look for, because even the more knowledgeable people will buy it and then just complain after. Why would Logitech care about your complaints when you keep giving them money no matter what they do? You even helped promote the idea that the 120g, 12000cpi 502 was the best mouse on the market.
> 
> For me it's completely understandable for Logitech to make the decision to make fluff gear for that large target market. What's not understandable is how much the people on this forum still support and promote them.


Partially true.

But if we want them to do more of these "experiments" or at least an effort to get to something decent, not buying G303's isn't a good sign either. That would probably make them "shelve" the whole top tier lightweight competitive mouse idea all together.

Best case scenario CPate and maybe others actually read these threads and inform people at Logitech. Performance wise they don't have to change much imo, but now it's time for step 2: The shape.


----------



## Aventadoor

Consumers have alot more "power" now then they have ever had.
So we should try make some big facebook groupes, threads on the biggest forums etc.
Reach out too as many as possible.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Consumers have alot more "power" now then they have ever had.
> So we should try make some big facebook groupes, threads on the biggest forums etc.
> Reach out too as many as possible.


That's nice and all... but you are thinking about destroying this mouse here, right? Why do you want to do that? Why not make another thread about a different shape that you like?

This mouse here, if you line it up next to a Logitech Mini by the position of the scroll wheel, its butt ends up just as short as the Mini. If you don't like a tiny mouse like that, why would you even look at it? How did you get the idea that you might possibly like this mouse?

For me, it's like a dream that they actually try to build something expensive in a small size, with all features like a not-crappy scroll wheel and thumb buttons.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> That's nice and all... but you are thinking about destroying this mouse here, right? Why do you want to do that? Why not make another thread about a different shape that you like?
> 
> This mouse here, if you line it up next to a Logitech Mini by the position of the scroll wheel, it's butt ends up just as short as the Mini. If you don't like a tiny mouse like that, why would you even look at it? How did you get the idea that you might possibly like this mouse?
> 
> For me, it's like a dream that they actually try to build something expensive in a small size, with all features like a not-crappy scroll wheel and thumb buttons.


chances are if g303 fail, logitech will probably say: "**** it, 'pro' mouse doesn't worth it anyway' and go full razer route.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> I dont like Kohler, since he claims "pro" player, and its really nothing.
> 
> BUT. I completly agree with him.. logitech is getting info from casuals.
> And that is not bad for the logitech, they will still sell.
> 
> If we want something LESS casual.. yes wmo / 3.0 / g3 shape please plox.
> 
> Because it have the best weight for the size, best grip for most games, best everything.
> 
> And you looks like a casual. A ****in LoL player like r0ach
> 
> Idk why casual people in OCN, want the best sensor, best precision..
> To play, ?Chess? LoL?


First of all, speaking of shapes... You can't please everyone the same way. Casuals represent the majority of gamers.

How do you know "wmo / 3.0 / g3 shapes" are the "best"? Even Kohler says 3.0 shape is not great

How do you know what's the best weight for everyone? Why do you believe as Kohler does that everyone is low-senser playing on cloth pads?

I played mainly Counter-Strike 2003-2012 (6 hours a day on average), I used a lot of mice. You look like someone who says it's the peripherals' fault because he missed a shot, IF you want to start with something like that.


----------



## a_ak57

To be part of the problem for a minute, it's really just best to not bother with thizito posts.


----------



## Aventadoor

You can please ALOT of people if you have an ambidextrous mouse, but with 2 or even 3 different sizes.
Instead of having 1 ergo mouse, 1 cheap, 1 ambidextrous. I mean theres very few who dislike ambidextrous mouse.
But problem is that they are often too small, or too narrow for us with little bigger hands.


----------



## Nivity

I don't care about having the best sensor on the market or garbo like that.
I want a lightweight, mouse with sidebuttons and pref ambidextrous.

Somehow that does not exist.

I even bought the taipan but could not get used to that sensor.

G302 is not even lightweight, and it's actually quite big and long. Also the wide part is wider then most mice on the market somehow.

I play fps just fine with AM10 and 3310.
But I still don't have a mainmouse I'm happy with, which sucks







And getting kinda tired of spending a butload of $ on mice to try and find "my" mouse


----------



## Nunex

This whole shape debate is simply innocuous. It's a debate on something purely subjective.

Objectively, the mouse is better than it's predecessors, either the button or the sensor quality.

The weight and shape may vary in appreciation by every single individual who might use the mouse in question.

I'm a newfag in this forum, but I really don't understand all this debate about something purely subjective.


----------



## Vantavia

Classic Logitech. I think the real solution here is for claw and fingertip grip users to put on 6 stone so we can use one of logitech's housebricks. Either that or let a company that has seen a human hand before use the 3366 sensor.


----------



## Melan

If Logitech made you a custom PCB, let's say a modular design:
1. Main part that contains a sensor, lens and MCU.
2. Frontal PCB with wheel and M1/M2 buttons.
3. Mini PCB containing side buttons if required.
4. All this connected the same way as mouse cord (easy to plug/unplug).

Then just take 10 most common (for you) designs and pump out shells where you can fit all the internals. Price - somewhere in the 100s$. Oh and limited warranty since you gain pretty much full access to internals, chance that you screw it up are too damn high.

I'm certain you'll never **** about either shells or your stupid feels. Regardless of what they make or how hard they'll try to listen to this "absolutely relevant" 1% that just wants another clone of X mouse with Y internals.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If Logitech made you a custom PCB, let's say a modular design:
> 1. Main part that contains a sensor, lens and MCU.
> 2. Frontal PCB with wheel and M1/M2 buttons.
> 3. Mini PCB containing side buttons if required.
> 4. All this connected the same way as mouse cord (easy to plug/unplug).
> 
> Then just take 10 most common (for you) designs and pump out shells where you can fit all the internals. Price - somewhere in the 100s$. Oh and limited warranty since you gain pretty much full access to internals, chance that you screw it up are too damn high.


It's a support hell. How can you know a mouse is defect on their part or user tempering?


----------



## Melan

Exactly. But hey, it's a way to shut them up.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> It's a support hell. How can you know a mouse is defect on their part or user tempering?


On the second thought, you can actually seal the whole PCB same as they do with phones. Same as EMI shielding. Tampering will require damaging it so it will be obvious.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> On the second thought, you can actually seal the whole PCB same as they do with phones. Same as EMI shielding. Tampering will require damaging it so it will be obvious.


Modular design+shield=more weight + price. Inb4 'logitech is does not care pro players they are so stupid blah blah blah'

And don't get me started with how to manage all those stock in retailer shop


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*


I am surprised he isn't banned yet


----------



## zb0t

I got my G303 today, I'm very happy about it. Thanks again to the few who responded me 2 days ago!


----------



## Melan

Shield isn't that heavy. And yes, as you said people will still complain.


----------



## falcon26

Can you make the LED color white?


----------



## Melan

Kinda. Looks more greyish to me tbh. Just set it all to 255/255/255.


----------



## falcon26

Can the LED thing be turned off completely as well?


----------



## Melan

Yes.


----------



## iceskeleton

yes


----------



## falcon26

Awesome thanks for the help guys....


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thizito*
> 
> I dont like Kohler, since he claims "pro" player, and its really nothing.


I've never claimed to be a pro. Does it say pro in my signature? No.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Kohler, when will you understand that not everyone is on low-sens and cloth?


What does that have to do with anything I said?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> But if we want them to do more of these "experiments" or at least an effort to get to something decent, not buying G303's isn't a good sign either.


That doesn't sound like solid logic to me at all...

And why are you people so set on Logitech being the one to make the ideal mouse? Other companies like Zowie, FM, Ninox, etc. have shown themselves to be much more open to it. Zowie essentially already has a close to perfect shape with the FK1, they just need improvements sensor wise. FM has a better sensor than Logitech, and FM has said they have future plans to customize a shell.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Can you make the LED color white?


When you set it to white it's a very light blue. You can mix in a little red to make it white, something like 255,191,191.


----------



## Kaikov

Does the G303 'creak' when you press the left side?
It happened on my G302.


----------



## qsxcv

it shouldn't


----------



## Melan

Mine doesn't.


----------



## pinobot

Opened mine.

First finding the screw, very very small screws.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pinobot/media/1_600_zpszwq0rtci.jpg.html

Insane complex top shell, and heavy, 37 grams.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pinobot/media/2_600_zps1ls94gmz.jpg.html

Mouse wheel is not spring loaded, it's bending plastic.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pinobot/media/3_600_zps5ese9zdz.jpg.html

Put some 0.22mm thick pieces of paper between the side buttons, i always do that to make them more responsive, less spongy and more raised.
Put a 0.8mm thick layer of electrical tape (6 individual layers) on mouse wheel button to cut the force needed to press it in half.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pinobot/media/G303_button_mod_1_zpsplefwdbc.jpg.html


----------



## Clyq

Mine does not creek
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kaikov*
> 
> Does the G303 'creak' when you press the left side?
> It happened on my G302.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Can you make the LED color white?
> 
> 
> 
> When you set it to white it's a very light blue. You can mix in a little red to make it white, something like 255,191,191.
Click to expand...

White is a hard color for LEDs


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I've never claimed to be a pro. Does it say pro in my signature? No.
> What does that have to do with anything I said?
> That doesn't sound like solid logic to me at all...
> 
> And why are you people so set on Logitech being the one to make the ideal mouse? Other companies like Zowie, FM, Ninox, etc. have shown themselves to be much more open to it. Zowie essentially already has a close to perfect shape with the FK1, they just need improvements sensor wise. FM has a better sensor than Logitech, and FM has said they have future plans to customize a shell.


Quote:


> However, Logitech is definitely ignoring the most knowledgeable consumers, who's ideal mouse looks somewhat like a g100s with side buttons & ~70g weight.


At high or higher sens it's not as "comfortable" to use a lightweight mouse on a plastic pad. Answer enough?

Oh, please... Zowie... Pretty much all mice of all brands are overpriced, but they don't even offer drivers. And please don't come with "I don't need drivers". At least having the option would be great for the price. Besides, it seems to be lottery to get a working mwheel on their mice. The FK1 or any other Zowie needs more improvements than just sensor-wise. I don't play fps games anymore, not really. If I did, I would just use my G602, my heavy wireless brick. Yeah, I'm noob... A wireless mouse? How could I!?!?! It's comfortable, it's precise, it's what I want nowadays. I would love to see an updated version with G502 sensor and mwheel though (preference, understand that!). Ninox Aurora is a G100s'ish mouse in terms of shape and/or size. And doesn't seem too reliable from what I've read. Same goes to FM. Other than that their availability seems also very limited. For some people that matters.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> At high or higher sens it's not as "comfortable" to use a lightweight mouse on a plastic pad. Answer enough?


Firstly, even among all the 8 people using high sens on plastics pads (in my experience, skin sticks on plastic, and plastic doesn't provide anything useful that's absent in cloth), there would be disagreement about heavier being better. But you're essentially arguing that mice should have a characteristic that most knowledgeable people hate, so that you can use some strange setup.

Light weight is objectively better in that it's easier to control the mouse, and causes less fatigue. The people I've seen who disagree with the first part were using ridiculously unnecessarily high sensitivities. Like under 10cm/360. A high sens of 20-30cm/360 is plenty useable on the smallest mousepads, cloth, etc..

Again, it's fine if Logitech wants to make mice for those people, but we on this forum shouldn't be supporting that since most of those people are going to be using those crazy high sensitivities and heavy mice out of ignorance rather than informed preference.


----------



## qsxcv

if you want more weight you could just open up your mouse and add lead tape inside right?


----------



## HarryC93

Just bought this mouse (Come from a laser Roccat Kone Pure), shape doesn't seems to bad as i mainly fingertip grip my mice. Buttons seem very nice and wheel has very solid and defined steps (quiet too! Roccat wheel is quite loud). I'm not a mouse expert like you guys but thought i would chime in my two cents. One thing i did do is leave the tuning to the factory default as when i tuned it to my QcK Heavy it felt quite strange during fast swipes (this really could be me though as i'm coming from laser sensor here or mind over matter).


----------



## mksteez

I wonder when will best buy carry these


----------



## Nunex

I guess they'll start selling on stores on 31 March, according to the distributor in my country who contacted Logitech.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Firstly, even among all the 8 people using high sens on plastics pads (in my experience, skin sticks on plastic, and plastic doesn't provide anything useful that's absent in cloth), there would be disagreement about heavier being better. But you're essentially arguing that mice should have a characteristic that most knowledgeable people hate, so that you can use some strange setup.
> 
> Light weight is objectively better in that it's easier to control the mouse, and causes less fatigue. The people I've seen who disagree with the first part were using ridiculously unnecessarily high sensitivities. Like under 10cm/360. A high sens of 20-30cm/360 is plenty useable on the smallest mousepads, cloth, etc..
> 
> Again, it's fine if Logitech wants to make mice for those people, but we on this forum shouldn't be supporting that since most of those people are going to be using those crazy high sensitivities and heavy mice out of ignorance rather than informed preference.


I'm essentially not arguing the words you try to put in my mouth. I don't use any strange setup, just what feels most comfortable. I don't care what others prefer when I buy or use something. It has to be good for me.

Your objectivity is not easy to control for me. I tried Abyssus, Spawn and some other small/light mice in the past. I found it not even suitable for desktop stuff. In CS I barely hit anything. I can see an advantage as low-senser using a light mouse (as I was before I turend sensitivity up more and more). I started with a IMO 1.1 (lighter mouse? yes, but not super light) at sens of 1.2 to 1.8 (win 6/11). I don't say it didn't work. However, I don't see anything negative about my sens I used around 2010-2012 (3-4 in-game) in comparison to 2003-2006 (1.2-1.8 in-game). Same goes to plastic pad. I started on cloth and realized that plastic felt better to me at some point.

Just saying you can't generalize this and that is better. Different people just have different needs. That's all.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> White is a hard color for LEDs


http://www.overclock.net/t/1441817/steelseries-rival-in-depth-review/160_20#post_21249879
Quote:


> There is no such thing as an all white LED.
> 
> The way they create "white" light with RGB LEDs is mixing different colors together (in an attempt to create something that looks white), which means there is a strong likelihood of a red (warm) or blue (cool) tint. The other way of creating "white" light is to use a blue LED with a coating. This is why the brightest LEDs have a blue color to them.
> 
> That should answer your question about all "white" LEDs.


----------



## qsxcv

if it looks white, it is white. you can mix rgb leds together to create white if you're careful enough, and there's nothing inadequate for the white produced by this, unless you're using the leds for illumination... in which case the differences between the spectrum of the led combination and that of sunlight or incandescent lighting is significant and will result in colors looking off (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index)


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> if it looks white, it is white.


6500 kelvin from an LED and 6500 kelvin from a bulb does tend to look different though even when your spectrophotometer says it's the same. The LED probably doesn't diffuse as good so it feels like you're looking at a laser beam. It's just unnatural and offensive to the senses.


----------



## Sencha

Attempting to tune your LEDs on your mouse to white will result in clown cursor. I did extensive tests based on feels. You have been warned!


----------



## qsxcv

not sure what you're trying to say but f it might as well discuss this
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> 6500 kelvin from an LED and 6500 kelvin from a bulb does tend to look different


in general yes, but the reason for this is primarily because of non-injective mapping of color onto correlated color temperatures.
Quote:


> though even when your spectrophotometer says it's the same.


a spectrophotometer would obviously show different spectra
if you mean that the spectrophotometer shows the same chromaticity coordinates, but yet the color is still different, that's usually a minor effect due to observer metamerism failure (i.e. different people's eyes have slightly different sensitivity spectra which isn't accounted for by current chromaticity models)
Quote:


> The LED probably doesn't diffuse as good so it feels like you're looking at a laser beam. It's just unnatural and offensive to the senses.


well obviously the "diffuseness" of the lighting depends on the geometry of the led and whatever diffusing elements come after the led. it's entirely possible to diffuse an led's lighting so that it's not unpleasant.

anyway since whiteness is something perceptual my claim that "if it looks white, it is white" is tautological


----------



## falcon26

I like the reviews of the G303. One thing I do not like is the look of it. I think its a rather ugly mouse. I love the look of the deathadder chroma. I have narrowed my search down to these 2 mice. The G303 or the Deathadder Chroma. I have a G9 (Broken) now that I love the feel of. So I want a mouse that is similar to the G9 in feel...


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I'm getting the old 1600dpi krait vibe from this mouse for some reason. I always liked that mouse even with it's imperfections. Might try this one now.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I'm getting the old 1600dpi krait vibe from this mouse for some reason. I always liked that mouse even with it's imperfections. Might try this one now.


If only that were true.
The krait shape was good, g302 is not close to the same shape at all


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

What is this clown cursor you speak of?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What is this clown cursor you speak of?


Here you go


----------



## CorruptBE

Finally getting somewhat used to this mouse. Anyhow, if anyone knows of a way to *increase* LOD on this thing, let me know.


----------



## Nunex

Today I went to a store to see how was the shape of G302 (and the G303).

After all this thread bashing, I felt surprised on how easily and comfortably I could palm grip the mouse.

Now I only wished that the mouse was available on the stores near me.


----------



## Melan

I'm getting very strange results with this mouse when connect it to Intel's USB 3. I ran it though mouse tester at 1kHz and 500hz while using Asmedia USB3, Intel USB 3 and USB 2. Intel and Asmedia's results were kinda... better? idk. Am I seeing things?

Asmedia USB 3 1kHz and 500hz


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








Intel USB 3 1kHz and 500hz


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








USB 2 1kHz and 500hz


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> If only that were true.
> The krait shape was good, g302 is not close to the same shape at all


I know, i know. A man can only dream.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Here you go


Time to reinstall windows because I seem to have a bad case of clown cursor.

*insert clown cursor intensifies meme here*


----------



## pinobot

Put some 0.22mm thick paper pieces between both side buttons again.
Put a small stack of 6 layers of electrical tape (0.8mm) on the middle mouse switch. The middle mouse wheel now feels like it takes half the force to press.


----------



## exitone

In Australia, the g302 will be $25aud ($19USD) tomorrow, logitech so cheap here. interesting to see how fast the price will drop on the g303


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> In Australia, the g302 will be $25aud ($19USD) tomorrow, logitech so cheap here. interesting to see how fast the price will drop on the g303


Local distributors trying desperately to flush out the useless turd of a mouse the G302 was making ready for the NEW version, the G303







.


----------



## iceskeleton

So any confirmed dates for Australia? 31 March maybe?


----------



## Nunex

I said in a previous post, Logitech informed the market release was on the 31st March. At least in Europe


----------



## zb0t

It's been out in France for days, that's how I got mine few days ago, Amazon might have some if you're lucky


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> I said in a previous post, Logitech informed the market release was on the 31st March. At least in Europe


Mine was sent this week already from a retailer in Finland.


----------



## dmbr

When using surface calibration (with the latest firmware), if I move the mouse rapidly it flips my upwards and spins to the left. No such behavior using the "default".

This was an issue with the g502 firmware when it first came out...anyone else experiencing this bug?

PS
Loving this mouse







I initially hated the grip but it's 100% comfortable now and I'm landing more shots than ever with this thing.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Here you go


Is it really surprising proprietary security features that Microsoft got built into the BIOS like secure boot could have an impact on mice, or that there could be a difference between UEFI and BIOS boot when it's drastically different in implementation.


----------



## learning123

My g303 just came, overall very happy with it. It is perfect for my grip (claw hybrid) and my hand small hands (17-18cm). Build quality is very good and the cable us very flexible despite being a little thick. I had some trouble installing the Logitech Gaming Software (mouse was not detected no matter what) but did some googling and this solved the problem: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/G303-Not-Working-After-Software-Install-Tried-Everything/td-p/1374762


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Is it really surprising proprietary security features that Microsoft got built into the BIOS like secure boot could have an impact on mice, or that there could be a difference between UEFI and BIOS boot when it's drastically different in implementation.


Wasn't just Microsoft's doing... it was all of these guys: http://www.uefi.org/members


----------



## Cyro999

Logi plz

for those wondering, that's equivelant of 104 USD or 96 euros - before shipping


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> for those wondering, that's equivelant of 104 USD or 96 euros - before shipping


Could that just be amazon? I thought it was £54.99 on the logitech site.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> Could that just be amazon? I thought it was £54.99 on the logitech site.


IDK, they still have not got it to any uk retailers


----------



## mksteez

Has anyone tried using sportstape to even out the back?


----------



## Nivity

It's 70 euro here in Sweden which is outrages.
Not even close to worth that much money, it cost more then pretty much any other non gimmicky mouse.

The g100s is 20 euro, that's a nice price, like the G400 was









But ye it will drop to G502 price around 50 euro in a short time. Because it will sell really bad at 70 eruo


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> IDK, they still have not got it to any uk retailers


I'm in the UK and I got it off Logitech for £54.99 with £5 off using on the codes and free shipping.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> It's 70 euro here in Sweden which is outrages.
> Not even close to worth that much money, it cost more then pretty much any other non gimmicky mouse.
> 
> The g100s is 20 euro, that's a nice price, like the G400 was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But ye it will drop to G502 price around 50 euro in a short time. Because it will sell really bad at 70 eruo


I'm not particularly fussed with value when it comes to the perfect mouse. The 3366 is my favourite sensor now and if they put it in a 70-80g G102 then I would buy it even if it cost EUR100.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> I'm not particularly fussed with value when it comes to the perfect mouse. The 3366 is my favourite sensor now and if they put it in a 70-80g G102 then I would buy it even if it cost EUR100.


Me neither. A premium G100s that matches G3 build quality with 3366 sensor I would pay fortunes.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> When using surface calibration (with the latest firmware), if I move the mouse rapidly it flips my upwards and spins to the left. No such behavior using the "default".
> 
> This was an issue with the g502 firmware when it first came out...anyone else experiencing this bug?
> 
> PS
> Loving this mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I initially hated the grip but it's 100% comfortable now and I'm landing more shots than ever with this thing.


so nobody else is experiencing this?

Any ideas on how to fix?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> so nobody else is experiencing this?
> 
> Any ideas on how to fix?


There were several other people reporting the same. I guess just don't use the surface calibration with your mouse pad and use default. I didn't see anyone mention a different solution.


----------



## dmbr

Yeah, just a bit of a bummer not to be able to use the feature...I suppose I'm just missing out on a millimeter or two of LOD, but still


----------



## CorruptBE

They should just remove that option and add a LOD slider (if it's possible of course).

Puts slider at MAXIMUM LOD!!! * HUAAAHH!!


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> It's 70 euro here in Sweden which is outrages.
> Not even close to worth that much money, it cost more then pretty much any other non gimmicky mouse.
> 
> The g100s is 20 euro, that's a nice price, like the G400 was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But ye it will drop to G502 price around 50 euro in a short time. Because it will sell really bad at 70 eruo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not particularly fussed with value when it comes to the perfect mouse. The 3366 is my favourite sensor now and if they put it in a 70-80g G102 then I would buy it even if it cost EUR100.
Click to expand...

Well, neither am I.
Would pay what is needed for a mouse I know I would love. Does not exist yet however and I spent hundereds of euro on mice, mousepads









But most people don't think that way








Most people buy a popular mice that are decently priced. G502, Deathadder etc is on the higher segment but still around 50euro.

But ye G502 was 70 euro on release as well and sold pretty bad, but then lowered to 50-55 euro and is one of the most popular mice sold now among Deathadder etc.


----------



## zehoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> A premium G100s that matches G3 build quality with 3366 sensor I would pay fortunes.


Cut that stupid nose off the front of the 100s, give it the original round mx300 feet (well make it mx300 shape exactly imo







) and slap in the 3366 sensor and yes I'd pay fortunes







. For now I'll be grabbing a g303 when they start selling in AUS, if that takes too long I'll just import it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> They should just remove that option and add a LOD slider (if it's possible of course).
> 
> Puts slider at MAXIMUM LOD!!! * HUAAAHH!!


Also we need more lighting options.


----------



## Melan

How does Logitech M560 shape look to you? Because it does look pretty comfy, enough to take that over G303 for sure.

Edit: Only the shell, not internals. Slap same button design from G303 and that's it.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> How does Logitech M560 shape look to you? Because it does look pretty comfy, enough to take that over G303 for sure.
> 
> Edit: Only the shell, not internals. Slap same button design from G303 and that's it.


I would have to hold it, but at first glance it does look like a more comfy shape. Smooth curves, etc vs strong angles.


----------



## Melan

Oh and centered sensor please, not THAT abomination.


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> I guess they'll start selling on stores on 31 March, according to the distributor in my country who contacted Logitech.


Thanks!


----------



## Rofd

Is g303 shape is good for claw-grip, i ask users with hand size 18-18.5cm


----------



## falcon26

Just ordered the G303. I'm coming from the G9 so I hope its about the same shape size and feel


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Just ordered the G303. I'm coming from the G9 so I hope its about the same shape size and feel


It's not, but I started with the G9, and the g303 is just as comfy for me (after a few days of adjusting).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> They should just remove that option and add a LOD slider (if it's possible of course).
> 
> Puts slider at MAXIMUM LOD!!! * HUAAAHH!!


I think they want customers to think "Delta Zero" helps tracking instead of just lowering LOD.


----------



## falcon26

I actually just cancelled the order. I had second thoughts. Its almost $80 with tax and shipping. I'm looking at the Steelseries Sensei. At $35


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> It's not, but I started with the G9, and the g303 is just as comfy for me (after a few days of adjusting).
> I think they want customers to think "Delta Zero" helps tracking instead of just lowering LOD.


Problem solved:

Add an "advanced" button at the surface tuning page. Badum tss, fools are non the wiser, but we get manual lod management.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> They should just remove that option and add a LOD slider (if it's possible of course).
> 
> Puts slider at MAXIMUM LOD!!! * HUAAAHH!!


Wouldn't surface calibration still be necessary though?


----------



## Melan

I decided to try this surface tuning stuff again (now on clean Zero and using same pattern as on rafalog). My LOD is the same as it was, mouse still doesn't malfunction but it became a bit more controlled. But nothing obvious, feels more like a placebo judging by today's ****ty aim performance on my part.


----------



## qsxcv

other than the lack of a place to put my pinky, the mouse is pretty comfortable like this

the weight of the cable really stands out now though


----------



## Hyde00

^ This makes me wonder if it's possible to make custom shells then we can just swap it out or something.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*


Bro... Really...?


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 
> other than the lack of a place to put my pinky, the mouse is pretty comfortable like this
> 
> the weight of the cable really stands out now though


:O look at all that drillable surface! And I'm full of lighter cables I can switch over.. looks promising!
I'll probably just sand the edges using masking tape to not scratch the whole surface..


----------



## qsxcv

k actually it's not that comfortable in csgo as my grip is more palm-like in csgo and having nothing to grip on the sides isn't very stable


----------



## Nilizum

Yea man I was like... how do you grip that...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 
> other than the lack of a place to put my pinky, the mouse is pretty comfortable like this
> 
> the weight of the cable really stands out now though


Tutorial please?


----------



## qsxcv

get some thin screwdrivers.
three screws hold the shell together. one under the bottom mousefeet and two under the top. for the bottom mousefeet you can just poke a hole through (press on the mousefeet to feel where the hole is). for the top, you'll need to rip off the mousefeet as the screws are near the surface, so you'll have to stick on some other mousefeet after you're done.
remove 3 silver screws which hold the pcb to the bottom shell. there's also a thin clear plastic piece on the right side; i think it's fine to remove.
remove 5 flat black screws which hold side buttons and left piece of shell. there's sort of a hook at the front so be careful to not pry too hard and break it
remove 3 more flat black screws which hold right piece of shell. there's also a hook at the front.

i can't remember top shell details precisely if you can't figure it out i'll show you some pictures i guess.
just unscrew everything you see except for the screws which hold the pieces for the buttons which you can see in picture. the piece of the shell with the G logo is held by 4 tabs: two near the sides and two at the back.

put on the side buttons, screw on the pcb, and put it together.


----------



## Longasc

This forum is getting too strange. Live long and prosper.


----------



## Derp

The things people do in order to use the 3366 and the amazing m1/m2 buttons.



Spoiler: Nice shape Logitech


----------



## Ickz

I'm really confused how those people are gripping the mouse in a way that they have to do that. The shape fits my pretty typical claw grip perfectly and is super comfortable. My fingers barely touch the edges.


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I'm really confused how those people are gripping the mouse in a way that they have to do that. The shape fits my pretty typical claw grip perfectly and is super comfortable. My fingers barely touch the edges.


This is why.


----------



## Ickz

Why would you be smothering an obvious finger-tip/claw shell with your palm?

Also that pinky/ring placement seems a little odd. /shrug


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> Why would you be smothering an obvious finger-tip/claw shell with your palm?
> 
> Also that pinky/ring placement seems a little odd. /shrug


yeah, why would I hold the mouse with a normal clawgrip that nets me great aim, that's just stupid

/s


----------



## boogdud

It would be pretty righteous if someone could 3d print some replacement shells without the diamond butt shape.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> It would be pretty righteous if someone could 3d print some replacement shells without the diamond butt shape.


Already covered right here, but giving specific feedback about the problem seems to be quite hard.


----------



## atarii

I have a question but i dont have time to read 200+ pages to see if someone already asked xD

is the 3366 a raw sensor as the am010? Because i hate every 3310 implementation and i feel like the only "new optical" sensor to be raw enough for me is the am010. I would like to buy the g303 but if there is any chance it's less raw than the am010 i'll gladly pass.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> I have a question but i dont have time to read 200+ pages to see if someone already asked xD
> 
> is the 3366 a raw sensor as the am010? Because i hate every 3310 implementation and i feel like the only "new optical" sensor to be raw enough for me is the am010. I would like to buy the g303 but if there is any chance it's less raw than the am010 i'll gladly pass.


If you happy with the AM010 and the PCS is enough for you, then I don't see any reason for this change...


----------



## DivineDark

I love the shape and the sensors in both of the Daedalus mice. Looks like I'm in the minority here. I have two of each and haven't even thought about switching. For me, that's a big deal.


----------



## atarii

1 word: LOD.
I am so accustomed to zowie mice that i can't stand the high lod anymore. That said i prefer an higher lod to the 3310 feeling, where, when i try to aim, there is an unspeakable force that is going against me. Everytime i try to aim properly it's like my crosshair has some glue on it. The first time i used a 3310 sensor i tought it was my fault, since i played a lot with 3090 mice and maybe their negative accel had some influence with my muscle memory. That's not the case since the AM010 has the same 0.5% consistent positive accel, like the 3310 but i had 0 problems with it from day1. I am totally in love with AM010, but a lower lod would be better, thats all


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> I have a question but i dont have time to read 200+ pages to see if someone already asked.


I'm afraid you have to make time. Its 200 pages of raw action packed wonderment that will blow your mind and leave you speechless and emotionally spent at the shear depth of knowledge of this most passionate community.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Gah, it looked like ambidextrous until i looked at the side buttons....

Not much hope for left handed users, Mionix 7000/SK is pretty much it for lefties.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The things people do in order to use the 3366 and the amazing m1/m2 buttons.


Where did you see this one?


----------



## Rofd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> This is why.


Lol, imo this mice is designed for fingertip grip only, thanks for photo. You just saved my 70 euros [+]


----------



## Nunex

I have 17 cm hands and I can palm grip it easily.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Where did you see this one?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1547373/logitech-read-this-please/80#post_23726603


----------



## the1freeMan

nvm...


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rofd*
> 
> Lol, imo this mice is designed for fingertip grip only, thanks for photo. You just saved my 70 euros [+]


bro-fist


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rofd*
> 
> Lol, imo this mice is designed for fingertip grip only, thanks for photo. You just saved my 70 euros [+]


Honestly, I'm a fingertip grip guy, and I just can't figure out _who_ this thing was designed for. It's literally a "jack of no trades". Too small and non-ergonomic for palm grip, too diamond shaped for hybrid grip, too many sharp/off angles for fingertip grip. I hate to be so hyperbolic about it, but it feels like they all got in a conference room and made the mission statement about the shape: "how do we piss off everybody?"

The real problem is that the innards are arguably the best in the business right now.

It would have been better if they had put the components of the 303 inside the 300s (and centered the sensor on it).


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Honestly, I'm a fingertip grip guy, and I just can't figure out _who_ this thing was designed for. It's literally a "jack of no trades". Too small and non-ergonomic for palm grip, too diamond shaped for hybrid grip, too many sharp/off angles for fingertip grip. I hate to be so hyperbolic about it, but it feels like they all got in a conference room and made the mission statement about the shape: "how do we piss off everybody?"
> 
> The real problem is that the innards are arguably the best in the business right now.
> 
> It would have been better if they had put the components of the 303 inside the 300s (and centered the sensor on it).


this is usually where someone inserts the oblivious "blame the driver, not the car" argument


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wmoftw*
> 
> this is usually where someone inserts the oblivious "blame the driver, not the car" argument


True. But I would argue:


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Honestly, I'm a fingertip grip guy, and I just can't figure out _who_ this thing was designed for. It's literally a "jack of no trades". Too small and non-ergonomic for palm grip, too diamond shaped for hybrid grip, too many sharp/off angles for fingertip grip. I hate to be so hyperbolic about it, but it feels like they all got in a conference room and made the mission statement about the shape: "how do we piss off everybody?"
> 
> The real problem is that the innards are arguably the best in the business right now.
> 
> It would have been better if they had put the components of the 303 inside the 300s (and centered the sensor on it).


I agree this mouse is definitely designed for nobody, so far I've found only 1 semi comfortable grip (hybrid) that offers some kind of control, and that's with one finger on the edge of the RMB... thank god the metal spring buttons give ability to somehow use the RMB like that.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rofd*
> 
> Lol, imo this mice is designed for fingertip grip only, thanks for photo. You just saved my 70 euros [+]
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, I'm a fingertip grip guy, and I just can't figure out _who_ this thing was designed for. It's literally a "jack of no trades". Too small and non-ergonomic for palm grip, too diamond shaped for hybrid grip, too many sharp/off angles for fingertip grip. I hate to be so hyperbolic about it, but it feels like they all got in a conference room and made the mission statement about the shape: "how do we piss off everybody?"
> 
> The real problem is that the innards are arguably the best in the business right now.
> 
> It would have been better if they had put the components of the 303 inside the 300s (and centered the sensor on it).
Click to expand...

Fingertip grip user here as well, g302/3 is impossible for me to get used to.
I can even fingertip grip a deathadder and it's 10 times better even with it's big size.

I just could not find a comfortable grip no matter how much I tried with the G302 i had.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> I agree this mouse is definitely designed for nobody, so far I've found only 1 semi comfortable grip (hybrid) that offers some kind of control, and that's with one finger on the edge of the RMB... thank god the metal spring buttons give ability to somehow use the RMB like that.


I love the grip (I use a hybrid claw/fingertip). Took maybe three days of use to stop hating it.


----------



## pruik6

I love the shape aswell, yea i use it aswell hybrid/claw almost want to buy g303 just for the extra nicer kabel


----------



## Melan

Took me 5 minutes to readjust my grip from FK1 to 302/303. Shape is pretty comfortable for me.


----------



## kackbratze

what's the native DPI of this beauty?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> what's the native DPI of this beauty?


Every 50cpi step is native. Not sure why people still ask this question since it's long past the A3090 days.


----------



## kackbratze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Every 50cpi step is native. Not sure why people still ask this question since it's long past the A3090 days.


ok, thanks. i thought every sensor has its own native sens. thanks anyways!


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> ok, thanks. i thought every sensor has its own native sens. thanks anyways!


Most modern sensors have 50dpi steps native nowadays.

The a3090 had steps of 400dpi however but thats the newest sensor with large steps as far as I know.


----------



## Nunex

what the hell is wrong with this mouse release to retail?

Only Amazon.fr has it in Europe, and through another seller.


----------



## offshell

It looks like its already dropped to $59 at amazon and newegg. If you purchased from amazon within the past 7 days I think they'll still give you the new price. I'm past that date myself. I could technically return it and buy it again, but that's annoying and abusing their system a bit I think.


----------



## dmbr

Can confirm that surface calibration is bugged.

My second 303 is also exhibiting the "spinning bug" when flicking the mouse quickly when using a custom surface tuning.


----------



## Aventadoor

I dont have any issue with surface calibration


----------



## detto87

Surface calibration in the 3366 is bugged since its first release in the G502.
LOD is low enough and rather optimal with the default tuning anyway. Feels like ~1,7mm.


----------



## Brightmist

My g303 hasn't spinned ever after surface calibration. It's probably related to your pad.

I ended up putting a piece of electrical tape to the spot my pinkie touches the shell. I hope they design a smaller shell that's supporting a 3366.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> . I hope they design a smaller shell that's supporting a 3366.


smaller than the G303/2 shell? what do you want? a mouse for ants?


----------



## Maximillion

G303 already at a $10 price drop on major online retailers (Amazon, Newegg, etc). I guess they aren't meeting expected numbers? Either way, at least it's more reasonably priced (kinda sucks for the dedicated buyers who hopped on it immediately though). Will likely hit a $20 price drop just like the G502 in the somewhat near future.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> My g303 hasn't spinned ever after surface calibration. It's probably related to your pad.


cm/360°


----------



## Nunex

It's not even availabe in stores where I live... and I live in the EU.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> It's not even availabe in stores where I live... and I live in the EU.


I live here in Australia AND I don't want to see this foul input device here at all







.


----------



## thedogman

Can you palm grip the g303? I have the g502 and it is too narrow for my hand.


----------



## detto87

Claw and fingertip works both very good with the G303 for me.
Palm is not possible at all.


----------



## exitone

Palm is impossible unless you're under 7 years old.


----------



## Brightmist

Cm/360 doesn't matter, you won't be reaching malfunction speed.


----------



## qsxcv

how high is the malfunction speed of the 3366 anyway?


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> how high is the malfunction speed of the 3366 anyway?


7 m/s


----------



## Aventadoor

Ive been using the G303 for some days again now, after swapping alot.
When I test mouse, I always do training_aim in csgo, cause ive done it alot so I know how much % I should manage to get consistently. With EC2-A, Rival, DA2013 and Avior, I can get 80%+ consistently very easy.
G303? No.... Not happening... Shots id think id hit doesnt hit, so its a very wierd feeling about the mouse.

It doesnt feel like your 100% in control of the mouse, unfortunaly.


----------



## Rofd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Ive been using the G303 for some days again now, after swapping alot.
> When I test mouse, I always do training_aim in csgo, cause ive done it alot so I know how much % I should manage to get consistently. With EC2-A, Rival, DA2013 and Avior, I can get 80%+ consistently very easy.
> G303? No.... Not happening... Shots id think id hit doesnt hit, so its a very wierd feeling about the mouse.
> 
> It doesnt feel like your 100% in control of the mouse, unfortunaly.


could you compare buttonlag g303 and avior7000 ? like optimisTGO http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/200_100#post_23319057.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Cm/360 doesn't matter, you won't be reaching malfunction speed.


Jeez.. Yes it does matter. The surface calibration is useless for someone who actually moving the mouse a little faster than an office user...
I ask you again.. what's your cm/360? I'm thinking below 15cm...


----------



## Rofd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Jeez.. Yes it does matter. The surface calibration is useless for someone who actually moving the mouse a little faster than an office user...
> I ask you again.. what's your cm/360? I'm thinking below 15cm...


I partially agree with Brightmist, in CS:GO i need 30cm/360 and i never reach more than 1.1 m/s, usually i get something around 0.7-0.8 m/s max. Only during tests i reach around 4m/s G9x+ CM Power Rx (yep awful pad for A3050/3090 but with lasers work quite good). Really i dont believe that someone can reach 2.5m/s during normal game, since every decent sensor have at least 2.5m/s this parameter is pure marketing for me.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rofd*
> 
> I partially agree with Brightmist, in CS:GO i need 30cm/360 and i never reach more than 1.1 m/s, usually i get something around 0.7-0.8 m/s max. Only during tests i reach around 4m/s G9x+ CM Power Rx (yep awful pad for A3050/3090 but with lasers work quite good). Really i dont believe that someone can reach 2.5m/s during normal game, since every decent sensor have at least 2.5m/s this parameter is pure marketing for me.


Yeah, that's what I meant under "office use". I reach 1m/s on desktop... High sensers doesn't get the spinning bug.

It's not the malfunction speed, only a huge bug in the tuning.


----------



## Brightmist

I'm @ 50/360. I do reach 2.5 m/s ez.
As I said, it's either your pad or the LOD is too low for you after calibration.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I'm @ 50/360. I do reach 2.5 m/s ez.
> As I said, it's either your pad or the LOD is too low for you after calibration.


None of that. I have a few different pads and the LOD is fine. Calibration is crap both on the G303 and the G502. Have/had both and they were all useless after calibration. IT's not speed related, but more how you swipe the mouse. For example a quick 180° back and forth (rocket jump) instantly generates spinning while looking at the floor or at the ceiling.

Still doesn't make sense to calibrate, since the mouse works with every mousemat perfectly without it.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> what the hell is wrong with this mouse release to retail?
> 
> Only Amazon.fr has it in Europe, and through another seller.


Yea i'm wondering that too. STILL waiting for it in UK from any shop aside from logi shop

if i knew it would take a month, i would have just sunk the £50


----------



## iceskeleton

inb4 only limited release due to sales


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> inb4 only limited release due to sales


At least a redesign.

I think it was a bad idea to design such an aesthetic shape and put in their best sensor, this combination appears to be a failure. Even the G302 [AM010], for other regions, seems to be disliked. They would have sold a lot more if the shape wasn't so limiting.


----------



## trism

Odd, it's on shelf in most of the finnish (bigger) computer hardware stores. E.g. verkkokauppa


----------



## Nunex

It must be a Logitech policy...


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> 7 m/s


anyone have a mousetester plot? i can only get up to 6m/s on my allsop raindrop xl (and it still tracks)


----------



## Nunex

__ https://www.facebook.com/LogitechG/posts/10153164598964871



at least it's official now.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/LogitechG/posts/10153164598964871
> 
> 
> 
> at least it's official now.


Only sign i see of it in the UK is amazon out of stock @£70


----------



## Nunex

They have never had it, I presume.

They must be filling stocks throughout the weekend.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> None of that. I have a few different pads and the LOD is fine. Calibration is crap both on the G303 and the G502. Have/had both and they were all useless after calibration. IT's not speed related, but more how you swipe the mouse. For example a quick 180° back and forth (rocket jump) instantly generates spinning while looking at the floor or at the ceiling.
> 
> Still doesn't make sense to calibrate, since the mouse works with every mousemat perfectly without it.


I get a small decrease in LOD, but it's already so low it doesn't bother me much to go without it.

My Func 1030 XL has a perfect rating and has all the properties of an ideal surface (hard, all black, lightly textured), so others using "inferior" surfaces (especially cloth) would probably see more benefit.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Ive been using the G303 for some days again now, after swapping alot.
> When I test mouse, I always do training_aim in csgo, cause ive done it alot so I know how much % I should manage to get consistently. With EC2-A, Rival, DA2013 and Avior, I can get 80%+ consistently very easy.
> G303? No.... Not happening... Shots id think id hit doesnt hit, so its a very wierd feeling about the mouse.
> 
> It doesnt feel like your 100% in control of the mouse, unfortunaly.


I do the same and I agree 100%.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Ive been using the G303 for some days again now, after swapping alot.
> When I test mouse, I always do training_aim in csgo, cause ive done it alot so I know how much % I should manage to get consistently. With EC2-A, Rival, DA2013 and Avior, I can get 80%+ consistently very easy.
> G303? No.... Not happening... Shots id think id hit doesnt hit, so its a very wierd feeling about the mouse.
> 
> It doesnt feel like your 100% in control of the mouse, unfortunaly.
> 
> 
> 
> I do the same and I agree 100%.
Click to expand...

Never had a problem with this. Was able to hit my peak numbers regularly on the map even without any adjustment period with the mouse and usually it takes me a few days or weeks to get fully used to something new.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I do the same and I agree 100%.


+1


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> G303 already at a $10 price drop on major online retailers (Amazon, Newegg, etc). I guess they aren't meeting expected numbers? Either way, at least it's more reasonably priced (kinda sucks for the dedicated buyers who hopped on it immediately though). Will likely hit a $20 price drop just like the G502 in the somewhat near future.


The price went back up to $70 before I could buy it. I was going to buy an Avior 7000 and G303, but the G303 went back to $70. I guess I will just buy an Avior 7000.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Never had a problem with this. Was able to hit my peak numbers regularly on the map even without any adjustment period with the mouse and usually it takes me a few days or weeks to get fully used to something new.


Ditto.

Was hitting shots better or the same off the bat, despite not having become accustomed to the grip yet.


----------



## AnimalK

It just goes to show that different people have different expectations of how a mouse should track without one being necessarily better or worse than the other.


----------



## jigglywiggly

Is there any way to increase the LOD on the g303?


----------



## JesperT

Bought the mouse a few days ago despite warnings about the shape and too low LOD.
I am really glad I did.

I am used to a really high LOD (played with the Kana v2 before), but I still did not have any problems adjusting to this mouse.
I put on some extra skates (which raised the mouse a bit), did a calibration, and everything was fine.

Sure I would set the LOD a bit higher if I could, but I have had much more problems with other mice.

Also, the shape is absolutely perfect for me. Sure, if anyone is thinking about palm grip, then I would recommend something else, but for fingertip grip I find it perfect. The outward pointing angle at the sides is helping me a lot to hold the mouse comfortably. It also feels very light weight and compact.

My subjective feeling is that it tracks much better than any mouse I have tried before. I also tried to calibrate it to a variety of different mousepads (plastic, aluminum, glass, cloth) and it seems to track just fine on any material.
It feels really responsive and precise and like I have full control over the movements (not sure how I could describe it better. I just feel a greater degree of control than I have ever done before using other mice).

Well worth the 70 euros it cost for me, even if it is a lot of money for a mouse.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The price went back up to $70 before I could buy it. I was going to buy an Avior 7000 and G303, but the G303 went back to $70. I guess I will just buy an Avior 7000.


Welp, with that price there is no way I'm buying it now.


----------



## Falkentyne

Way to describe it is the mouse feels "raw"
As in, what you move with your hand translates instantly to what's happens on screen (ignoring stuff like input lag, vsync, etc).

This is definitely the most raw sensor since the MLT04.
People keep forgetting that the MLT04 (and its predecessor with a very low pcs) was made back when people used windows 98, still.
It was designed to work in MS DOS with a USB to PS2 adapter and windows. And the MLT04 was raw because everything in those days was raw and unprocessed. Even Voodoo1 and 3dfx voodoo2 cards performed better at 30 FPS than modern video cards perform at 60 fps.

Remember back then we were video limited. Increase resolution, FPS drops drastically. But did you have mouse lag at 30 fps on a voodoo2 at 800x600, while 640x480 gave 45 fps? (video limited?) Nope. But you can bet your buns if you get 30 fps on a GeForce or AMD card, you get tons of input lag (unless it's using code designed to eliminate input lag--I forgot what the term is though; Unreal Tournament 2004 had "reduce mouse lag=true" in the INI, which came at a hit to FPS).

I miss the days when everything was "Raw" and you had direct access to hardware....


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> because everything in those days was raw and unprocessed


Okay.


----------



## Imprecision

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> It just goes to show that different people have different expectations of how a mouse should track without one being necessarily better or worse than the other.


Madness! Madness I tell you!


----------



## -Solaris

Bought it, and now in the process of returning it.

Came from an original zowie fk.

Bought g303.

Shape sucks and I have small hands.

I'm LEM in csgo and I'll tell you now, this mouse isn't worth the "perfect" sensor.

G502 is better than this mouse even with its massive weight.

I guess I made the mistake in going with logitech twice.

Going to just go buy a zowie fk2


----------



## pinobot

I kinda got used to it, went back to Sensei RAW to compare again and the shape felt like coming home.








The Sensei RAW sensor sucks now compared to the G303, so that's not a real option.
Maybe i'll try a Zowie, Deathadder Chroma or a Steelseries Rival.


_''This is not the mouse you're looking for.''_


----------



## the1onewolf

Does this shape work well for most people?
I feel like this mouse is tiny and going to cramp my hands.


----------



## pinobot

I don't think the shape will satisfy most people in the long run.
It doesn't seem to be made for humans, more for a space alien with 2 thumbs on one hand and suction cups.


----------



## VagueRant

I have no issues with the shape coming from the G502. Not sure if I feel that the sensor performs as well as the G502 yet but that could just be getting use to the weight.

I haven't felt that the shape is uncomfortable the1onewolf. I originally felt uncomfortable with the narrowness of the G502 but I eventually got use to it.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I kinda got used to it, went back to Sensei RAW to compare again and the shape felt like coming home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sensei RAW sensor sucks now compared to the G303, so that's not a real option.
> Maybe i'll try a Zowie, Deathadder Chroma or a Steelseries Rival.
> 
> 
> _''This is not the mouse you're looking for.''_


You should give the Newmen GX1 pro a try


----------



## the1onewolf

Think I might give this a try then.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I kinda got used to it, went back to Sensei RAW to compare again and the shape felt like coming home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sensei RAW sensor sucks now compared to the G303, so that's not a real option.
> Maybe i'll try a Zowie, Deathadder Chroma or a Steelseries Rival.
> 
> 
> _''This is not the mouse you're looking for.''_


Yeah I got use to the shape and going back to the FK1 felt like heaven after I went back to it.


----------



## mynameisandy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Solaris*
> 
> Bought it, and now in the process of returning it.
> 
> Came from an original zowie fk.
> 
> Bought g303.
> 
> Shape sucks and I have small hands.
> 
> I'm LEM in csgo and I'll tell you now, this mouse isn't worth the "perfect" sensor.
> 
> G502 is better than this mouse even with its massive weight.
> 
> I guess I made the mistake in going with logitech twice.
> 
> Going to just go buy a zowie fk2


Rank in matchmaking doesn't mean anything. 2 minute round time, 64 tick servers, and a 45 second bomb timer is terrible.

If the shape isn't for you that's fine, no shape is perfect for everyone.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Does this shape work well for most people?
> I feel like this mouse is tiny and going to cramp my hands.


Look at the comparison with the Zowie Mico here, and look at where the scroll wheel is on both mice and how similar the length towards the butt is (so ignore the longer front on the G302/303):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1513987/logitech-g302-soon/1160#post_23273255

It's for people that want a tiny mouse. It's not for you if you want something you grab with your whole hand. If you are afraid that tiny mice will cramp your hand, this one here will definitely do it!


----------



## CorruptBE

Back to FK2...

cba with this shape, just cba.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Back to FK2...
> 
> cba with this shape, just cba.


Come on, man...you really shouldn't have expected the 303 to fit a grip suited the FK.


----------



## -Solaris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mynameisandy*
> 
> Rank in matchmaking doesn't mean anything. 2 minute round time, 64 tick servers, and a 45 second bomb timer is terrible.
> 
> If the shape isn't for you that's fine, no shape is perfect for everyone.


Your post is meaningless. I only posted to help others who are in the same situation as me to make a decision.

Obviously what you listed is terrible for competitive gaming but saying matchmaking rank doesn't mean anything is quite foolish.

If you're saying a legit LEM-Global Elite can't compete in ESEA because those round/server settings don't "mean anything", that's pretty stupid considering ESEA is also full of Gold Nova's and AK's who play at the "correct" settings.

I only indicated rank to tell others around my skill level & with a FK to know that it's not worth it to buy this mouse. If you are around LEM, you probably have the the muscle memory built in your old mouse and it would be better to not switch to a mouse that has such an awkward grip. It would be better to keep your old mouse or switch to other grips close to it.

If you are a casual player or low skilled player, your muscle memory probably isn't important at this point or at least significant enough to the point where purchasing this mouse will hinder any results.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Solaris*
> 
> Bought it, and now in the process of returning it.
> 
> Came from an original zowie fk.
> 
> Bought g303.
> 
> Shape sucks and I have small hands.
> 
> I'm LEM in csgo and I'll tell you now, this mouse isn't worth the "perfect" sensor.
> 
> G502 is better than this mouse even with its massive weight.
> 
> I guess I made the mistake in going with logitech twice.
> 
> Going to just go buy a zowie fk2


Came from all types of mice

Bought g303

Shape is fine and I have small hands

I'm supreme and this mouse is brilliant

G502 is dog**** for FPS and there is a reason why everyone (I think) in TSM and lots in C9 use g303 and not g502. It's clearly the better alternative.

Why the **** am I even bothering.


----------



## the1onewolf

I guess what I should be asking Is the g303 a good successor to the g9x?


----------



## bigjw

how is the shape for fingertip grip? the wide hips worry me.


----------



## -Solaris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> Came from all types of mice
> 
> Bought g303
> 
> Shape is fine and I have small hands
> 
> I'm supreme and this mouse is brilliant
> 
> G502 is dog**** for FPS and there is a reason why everyone (I think) in TSM and lots in C9 use g303 and not g502. It's clearly the better alternative.
> 
> Why the **** am I even bothering.


Majority of TSM/C9 actually use G400 and G100


----------



## Brightmist

Last I checked, both CS:GO teams were around 4/5 g303.


----------



## -Solaris

You can check the twitch profiles, nothing using g100, sean gares and semphis uses g400. The fact that players are refusing to use Logitech's new mice are enough for me. The players that do use the new mice are forced to since they did not use logitech's previous mice.


----------



## Ihateallmice

you can check actual lan tournaments. TSM use g303. dont really keep up with garbage american teams, but I did recall that the only decent player in C9 used g303.


----------



## Brightmist

Any company producing feet for this one yet ?


----------



## Melan

I had a talk with hyperglide. They are considering making some for G303 but popularity of this mouse is rather sad.


----------



## Aluc13

I am probably going to be in the market for a new mouse soon. Mine keeps on double clicking or not clicking. I've had mine for a good couple years, and I have cleaned the switches repeatedly. But I think its time for a new mouse. Anyone have this mouse and recommends?


----------



## Melan

If you can grip it, it's a good mouse.


----------



## Aluc13

Ah okay, so it depends on grip. Well then...no way to check that unless Best Buy has it lol


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If you can grip it, it's a good mouse.


*best mouse

Come on, perfect sensor, revolutionarily great mouse1/2 buttons, Logitech button latency, light-weight...if the grip fits, this thing is immaculate.


----------



## Melan

idk about sensor being "perfect" part, but the buttons are godsend for Osu!
Light-weight? If Logitech refined insides a bit more it would be lighter. This thing is really weird inside.


----------



## calci

Twitch profiles are outdated.
Shroud, Sean, Semphis, Shazam, Dupreeh, Xyp9x and Karrigan use G302/G303.
Device and Cajunb use G402
Nothing uses G100s


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> idk about sensor being "perfect" part, but the buttons are godsend for Osu!
> Light-weight? If Logitech refined insides a bit more it would be lighter. This thing is really weird inside.


Eh, I've seen a couple people argue the 3310's superiority, but the general consensus seems to be that the 3366 is the best right now...I'm not aware of any flaws. I find it superior to the 3310 comparing it to my ec2a and KPM.

Sure it could be lighter, but name me a mouse with a comparable sensor/specs that is below 85g.


----------



## CorruptBE

3366 in the G303 is superior to the 3310 in my FK2, but... alas the G303 shape is awful in the end tbh.


----------



## dmbr

Awful for you!!

I adore the grip.

Ok I'm done now...still just a little too thrilled to have finally found my dream mouse heh.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Eh, I've seen a couple people argue the 3310's superiority, but the general consensus seems to be that the 3366 is the best right now...I'm not aware of any flaws. I find it superior to the 3310 comparing it to my ec2a and KPM.
> 
> Sure it could be lighter, but name me a mouse with a comparable sensor/specs that is below 85g.


It's not that 3366 is superior to 3310 or vice versa. It's the fact that if I'll take my MX500 or buy G300S like I wanted at first, I'm not going to notice much difference. In MX500 (A2020) case, there's minor angle snapping which never bothered me.
I mean, it tracks right? Cursor movement pretty much corresponds with my mouse movement and that's it. For everything else I can easily adapt within 5 minutes of play. As long as it tracks, has no weird acceleration and doesn't flop at 4-5m/s speeds - I can work with it.


----------



## mynameisandy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Solaris*
> 
> Your post is meaningless. I only posted to help others who are in the same situation as me to make a decision.
> 
> Obviously what you listed is terrible for competitive gaming but saying matchmaking rank doesn't mean anything is quite foolish.
> 
> If you're saying a legit LEM-Global Elite can't compete in ESEA because those round/server settings don't "mean anything", that's pretty stupid considering ESEA is also full of Gold Nova's and AK's who play at the "correct" settings.
> 
> I only indicated rank to tell others around my skill level & with a FK to know that it's not worth it to buy this mouse. If you are around LEM, you probably have the the muscle memory built in your old mouse and it would be better to not switch to a mouse that has such an awkward grip. It would be better to keep your old mouse or switch to other grips close to it.
> 
> If you are a casual player or low skilled player, your muscle memory probably isn't important at this point or at least significant enough to the point where purchasing this mouse will hinder any results.


Your post is meaningless I've played csgo for a month and I'm mge. You just spouted random bull**** without any good reasoning. How small are your hands exactly and how is the g502 better ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-Solaris*
> 
> Majority of TSM/C9 actually use G400 and G100


refer to
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *calci*
> 
> Twitch profiles are outdated.
> Shroud, Sean, Semphis, Shazam, Dupreeh, Xyp9x and Karrigan use G302/G303.
> Device and Cajunb use G402
> Nothing uses G100s


----------



## qsxcv

why are you guys so silly? shape is personal preference and if you've followed this thread at all you'll know that even if you love the shape, a huge number of people hate it, and even if you hate the shape, some people still like it.


----------



## Ihateallmice

cuz am legend egul n ma opininioion is many important n stuff


----------



## Ickz

I really hope the next version of it keeps the overall shape, but just adjusts the sharp edges and slightly rounds out the diamond shape so the people that are using a non-fingertip/claw grip with a fingertip/claw mouse can stop complaining.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Has anyone else noticed that Logitech is no longer mentioning their clock tuning feature on their product page? @CPate is it no longer a feature?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I really hope the next version of it keeps the overall shape, but just adjusts the sharp edges and slightly rounds out the diamond shape so the people that are using a non-fingertip/claw grip with a fingertip/claw mouse can stop complaining.


Agree, that's all it will take for me. I like the shape and feel but the sharpness of the sides kills it./


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 3366 in the G303 is superior to the 3310 in my FK2, but... alas the G303 shape is awful in the end tbh.


How are the clicks on the FK2?
I hated the FK1 clicks, got rid the mouse.
But I miss having a good ambi mouse which isent Kana V2 with sky high LoD and... Well its a little low.
FK2 should be slightly bigger. Where you actually grip the mouse, Kana V2 is like 55mm, while FK2 is 58mm


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> How are the clicks on the FK2?
> I hated the FK1 clicks, got rid the mouse.
> But I miss having a good ambi mouse which isent Kana V2 with sky high LoD and... Well its a little low.
> FK2 should be slightly bigger. Where you actually grip the mouse, Kana V2 is like 55mm, while FK2 is 58mm


I wouldn't know really, my FK2 is actually an FK1 it's internals in a FK 2013 model.


----------



## fxniqab

I want to play cs go with 2560x1440 resolution and the g303 with 750 dpi. Will this have pixel skipping with this display resolution?


----------



## turnschuh

no, it depends on the sensitivity in game.
or if you use win sens of 7/11 above instead of 6/11.
sens of 0-3 in csgo is fine.
is 750 dpi also for desktop usage? if not use your desktop dpi and adjust ur in game settings accordingly. if its higher than 750 dpi there wont be any problems regarding angular granularity in game when sens is below 3 for sure.
and if ur using rawinput there wont be any issues either regarding neg accel with higher dpi setting.

you can easily test this if the angular granularity is ok. when double scoping the awp and looking down to double doors from t spawn. move the mouse for one "angle" at a time and u ll see how it is.

maybe someone else here knows this better, though and can help me out.^^


----------



## fxniqab

I play with windows 6/11 m_rawinput 1 and in cs always above 3 like 3.6 or 3.7 why is it a bad thing when it is over 3?


----------



## turnschuh

"pixel skipping" or the angular granularity is a little bit rougher in game. You re not as precise with other words. but tbh its still no issue below sens 4 either.

(f0rest doesnt have issues either with his 3.5 sens, but i dont know how his low res affected his mouse feel vs your high resolution)

but you could increase your dpi a little and adjust your old sens accordingly and see how it feels.

old sens * dpi = x
x / new dpi = new sens

in case you didnt know how to calculate your new sens.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> I want to play cs go with 2560x1440 resolution and the g303 with 750 dpi. Will this have pixel skipping with this display resolution?


Use this: http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html

Hack in your resolution width and sensitivity, then hit the button to calculate real sens (both cm/360 and inches/360) and the hit the button for "estimated useful dpi". You should have at least that required CPI to not have any pixel skipping. For a sens of 4 it says that you should have 1474.45415208481 CPI for 2560 resolution width. So almost double than what you use.

Still, this is theoretical, if you can play with 3.6 just do it.


----------



## falcon26

Anyone seen this from Amazon about the G303?

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Gaming-910-004380/dp/B00TKFD51M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428365186&sr=8-1&keywords=g303

"Item Under Review"


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Anyone seen this from Amazon about the G303?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Gaming-910-004380/dp/B00TKFD51M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428365186&sr=8-1&keywords=g303
> 
> "Item Under Review"


Wow, I knew people didn't like the shape but this is really taking it to a whole new level


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Wow, I knew people didn't like the shape but this is really taking it to a whole new level


Wonder when Logitech will decide to sack their Chief of Design over this fiasco?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Wonder when Logitech will decide to sack their Chief of Design over this fiasco?


Fiasco how?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Anyone seen this from Amazon about the G303?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Gaming-910-004380/dp/B00TKFD51M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428365186&sr=8-1&keywords=g303
> 
> "Item Under Review"


Yeah. I seen that the same day the price went back up to $70. It's the first time I ever seen that happen. I guess people are returning the mouse too much to go unnoticed by Amazon.


----------



## dmbr

The only things I can think of are:

- uneven force required to press m1 and m2 in some units

- bugged surface calibration

- maybe there's something's just wrong witn the description


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> The only things I can think of are:
> 
> - uneven force required to press m1 and m2 in some units
> 
> - bugged surface calibration
> 
> - maybe there's something's just wrong witn the description


Maybe people are retuning the mouse with the excuse that the product isn't "as described." I guess they reduced the price to $60 to get rid of the rest of the stock, then put it on "review." Other resellers are selling it now and they are charging $70 or more.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe people are retuning the mouse with the excuse that the product isn't "as described." I guess they reduced the price to $60 to get rid of the rest of the stock, then put it on "review." Other resellers are selling it now and they are charging $70 or more.


Ouch. Gonna guess theyre returning it due to the grip not working out and arbitrarily choosing that option :/


----------



## Atavax

its a little odd because the reviews are largely positive.... average 4.5 stars out of 5... You would think if so many people weren't happy with shape and returning it, the reviews would reflect that...

the lowest review score (the sole 2 star) says its a 4,000 dpi mouse. I wonder if amazon was accidentally sending people g302s...


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> its a little odd because the reviews are largely positive.... average 4.5 stars out of 5... You would think if so many people weren't happy with shape and returning it, the reviews would reflect that...


Maybe the average Amazon reviewer has a little more of a grasp on the concept of grip being preference than, uh, "certain" communities....


----------



## kifkiz

people here are just unhappy that the mouse has almost everything they want other than the shape and are making unsubstantiated claims acting like logitech have stabbed their hands with it


----------



## exitone

There's also the fact that some people don't know how to hold a mouse properly and blame the shape instead.


----------



## pinobot

A few times already the software seem to have stopped working for a short time.
While surfing the sidebuttons stopped doing the programmed functions (ctrl+ and ctrtl-) and reverted to their standard settings, i opened the software and everything seemed normal and the problem went away.
During gaming the programmed sidebuttons didn't do their function, after trying for a few seconds they started working again.


----------



## mynameisandy

Does anyone know how long the shipping delay from the logitech site is ? I ordered mine on Friday and it said "Due to standard website maintenance, there will be a shipping delay for all orders placed today. We apologize for the inconvenience."


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> A few times already the software seem to have stopped working for a short time.
> While surfing the sidebuttons stopped doing the programmed functions (ctrl+ and ctrtl-) and reverted to their standard settings, i opened the software and everything seemed normal and the problem went away.
> During gaming the programmed sidebuttons didn't do their function, after trying for a few seconds they started working again.


interesting, do you have LGS installed and running on your PC while this happens? If so, i would recommend trying to save all the settings on the mouse, and not run the software again, and see if it happens again.


----------



## detto87

I had the same but with the mouse wheel. Didn't register. Then I scrolled again and it worked. Happened more than once.


----------



## pinobot

Just had it happen again.
I clicked on a magnet download, Tixati 1.99 opened, went on browsing the internet and the programmed buttons suddenly stopped working. Seems like when the 'load transfer' window opened in the background LGS stopped working. When changing focus to the load transfer window and back to Google Chrome the LGS behaves normal again.
Weird.


----------



## falcon26

Amazon has even pulled the G303 from their website....


----------



## delledonne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Amazon has even pulled the G303 from their website....


Quote:


> Item Under Review
> While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)
> 
> We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible.


----------



## Abacus1234

This is not shape related, because they are still selling the g302. Even if it was, you can see the shape for yourself. There is no reason to suspect anything like that.


----------



## Brightmist

There's nothing wrong with the mouse.

They prolly shipped some 302s instead of 303s and now they're trying to sort out their inventory


----------



## CPate

I asked our Amazon rep. They received a complaint from a customer that their G303 came in crushed packaging. They are checking their inventory to ensure that the rest of them are not in crushed packaging and will turn the product back on after that.


----------



## dmbr

Rather admirable dilligence from Amazon...but ouch for Logitech.


----------



## CPate

I don't understand what you mean. The package is designed to withstand a significant amount of stress while still protecting the product. Many bad things can happen to packages in warehouses and trucks. The package did its job.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I don't understand what you mean. The package is designed to withstand a significant amount of stress while still protecting the product. Many bad things can happen to packages in warehouses and trucks. The package did its job.


I hope he means that it is unfortunate for Logitech as it might hinder sales a little for only a couple days.


----------



## AnimalK

On another note,

I have come to the conclusion that I prefer the tracking of the g302 way more than the g303.

I am thinking about attempting to swap the bottom chassis from my g303 to my g302 just so my g302 can benefit of the extra skates on either side for stability.
I am not sure if it is possible but I believe it likely to be.


----------



## qsxcv

probably not possible unfortunately. different lens and lens alignment grooves.


----------



## Melan

Afaik AM010 and 3366 have same lens (same form factor just like laser ones). It's highly possible that it will fit.

Nvm. Checked it again, apparently some other mouse I saw had that lens like 303.


----------



## qsxcv

i dont have any laser mice except an old g3, but from the pixart datasheets it looks like g303's lens is similar to the 9800 lens


----------



## Melan

Yes it is.


----------



## Bstealthy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I don't understand what you mean. The package is designed to withstand a significant amount of stress while still protecting the product. Many bad things can happen to packages in warehouses and trucks. The package did its job.


I received my g303 last week from Amazon but I'm concerned there may be an issue with it. There seems to be a "rattle" to it like something inside is loose (it's not the rmb/lmb or the scroll wheel and nothing with the shell)

It didn't seem to effect tracking but it is definitely noticeable and distracting.

I saw someone earlier in this thread mention the same thing. Can anyone else tell me if theirs does the same? Just pick it off the mouse pad and give it a light side to side shake and let me know

Edit: p.s. Amazon shipped mine in a padded envelope not in a box which is why there maybe reports it got crushed however mine came just fine box was fully intact etc


----------



## qsxcv

dpi switch rattles for mine


----------



## Brightmist

Nothing is rattling on mine, I suggest you guys RMA yours.


----------



## pinobot

You mean the rattle when you shake it?
I think that's normal, the switch is just a seperate piece of plastic, if they make it to fit precisely it gets gunked up and stuck.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bstealthy*
> 
> I received my g303 last week from Amazon but I'm concerned there may be an issue with it. There seems to be a "rattle" to it like something inside is loose (it's not the rmb/lmb or the scroll wheel and nothing with the shell)
> 
> It didn't seem to effect tracking but it is definitely noticeable and distracting.


This is not normal. You should contact Customer Care.


----------



## Nunex

hey @CPate, what's with all the delay on releasing the mouse to retailers in Europe?


----------



## CPate

The distribution chain across Europe is long and complex. It's not possible for me to predict when it will be available in any particular country/retailer. What I can say is it's available on Amazon (UK, DE, FR) and Komplett, as well as quite a few other places. It's available in Europe - just probably not yet where you are.


----------



## Nunex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> The distribution chain across Europe is long and complex. It's not possible for me to predict when it will be available in any particular country/retailer. What I can say is it's available on Amazon (UK, DE, FR) and Komplett, as well as quite a few other places. It's available in Europe - just probably not yet where you are.


Thanks


----------



## r0ach

Was expecting to see some decent mods to shell to make the mouse not diamond shaped in this thread, but there was just a couple rivaling Maximillion's IME 3.0 in terms of hideousness. You could leave that thing on a park bench in Detroit and nobody would bother stealing it.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> You could leave that thing on a park bench in Detroit and nobody would bother stealing it.


Classic......





















.


----------



## Nds39gk

I also get the spinning bug. Doesn't matter if it's surface tuned or not, though tuning seems to make it even worse. I'm using a black cloth pad.

Pretty disappointed with this mouse.


----------



## zb0t

The G302 did this with me, due to the malfunction speed, the G303 doesn't. Try to get a new one I'd suggest.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> The distribution chain across Europe is long and complex. It's not possible for me to predict when it will be available in any particular country/retailer. What I can say is it's available on Amazon (UK, DE, FR) and Komplett, as well as quite a few other places. It's available in Europe - just probably not yet where you are.


any news on SEA release except japan?


----------



## r0ach

What happened to the Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome edition G303 guy? Did he add anything to it, or is it good to go like this? Seems like two pieces of plastic from a 3d printer and super glue could solve a lot of problems.


----------



## nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nds39gk*
> 
> I also get the spinning bug. *Doesn't matter if it's surface tuned or not,* though tuning seems to make it even worse. I'm using a black cloth pad.
> 
> Pretty disappointed with this mouse.


(had a crapy spinning mouse many years ago.. brr).
Having second thoughs on buying 303 now.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> The distribution chain across Europe is long and complex. It's not possible for me to predict when it will be available in any particular country/retailer. What I can say is it's available on Amazon (UK, DE, FR) and Komplett, as well as quite a few other places. It's available in Europe - just probably not yet where you are.


And what about South America?
I love the fact that Logitech mice are pretty cheap in my country, but it takes soooo long to be released in here.
Just like the G502, it was just released in here a few weeks ago.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Was expecting to see some decent mods to shell to make the mouse not diamond shaped in this thread, but there was just a couple rivaling Maximillion's IME 3.0 in terms of hideousness. You could leave that thing on a park bench in Detroit and nobody would bother stealing it.


well, i live near Detroit and work in Detroit, and i would steal it, so you, sir, are wrong...


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i would steal it


*Thief!*


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> *Thief!*


i would call it being an opportunist, but tomato, tomato. (saying doesn't work as well in text, but you get the idea)


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> This is not normal. You should contact Customer Care.


I have the same issue.. but got the g303 like one month ago, can I still return it? If yes, I have to call them?

Anyways, still trying out the G303 and got the FK2 yesterday.


----------



## mg7l0k

Which of the sensors is better - G303 or G400s?


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mg7l0k*
> 
> Which of the sensors is better - G303 or G400s?


G303. G400 uses the AM-010 sensor that is in the G302 combined with an accelerometer doohicky to give it a higher malfunction speed. The effectiveness of that setup isn't that good as the 3366, but a bit cheaper.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> G303. G400 uses the AM-010 sensor that is in the G302 combined with an accelerometer doohicky to give it a higher malfunction speed. The effectiveness of that setup isn't that good as the 3366, but a bit cheaper.


The G402 is what you mean, but the G303 has the same innards as the G502, but I'm going by what I read, so please correct if I'm wrong.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> any news on SEA release except japan?


Still not planned.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> G303. G400 uses the AM-010 sensor that is in the G302 combined with an accelerometer doohicky to give it a higher malfunction speed. The effectiveness of that setup isn't that good as the 3366, but a bit cheaper.


This is incorrect. The G400s uses the 3095 sensor, which is a completely different architecture than either AM010 or 3366.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> I have the same issue.. but got the g303 like one month ago, can I still return it? If yes, I have to call them?
> 
> Anyways, still trying out the G303 and got the FK2 yesterday.


If you want to return it, contact your retailer. If you want to talk to our Customer Care people about a warranty claim, you should have 23 months left on your warranty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> And what about South America?
> I love the fact that Logitech mice are pretty cheap in my country, but it takes soooo long to be released in here.
> Just like the G502, it was just released in here a few weeks ago.


Not planned to my knowledge.


----------



## iceskeleton

Is the logitech SDK able to work with the G303 LED? Or will it be updated if not

I assume since LGS is able to do it, it would be nice if it was.


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> This is incorrect. The G400s uses the 3095 sensor


Oops, got the G400 and G402 mixed up.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Is the logitech SDK able to work with the G303 LED? Or will it be updated if not
> 
> I assume since LGS is able to do it, it would be nice if it was.


Yes, it is. We just posted a video about integration with Battlefield Hardline today.


----------



## mg7l0k

Sorry for the repeat.
So all the same - which of the sensors is better - G303 or G400s?


----------



## e4stw00t

G303's PMW3366 is currently top of the line.


----------



## Brightmist

G303 has a flawless sensor.


----------



## deak2020

I'm currently waiting on my RMA for my g303. It's been 2 weeks since its been approved, still no tracking. I've called a week ago and they said they have been backtracked. I called again after 48 hours again and they said wait for 48 hours for email label. Still no tracking, is there something wrong with the mouse atm that has to do something with amazon shipments?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> G303 has a flawless sensor.


Almost. (buggy surface tuning)


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> G303 has a flawless sensor.


nothing is flawless


----------



## Nds39gk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> G303 has a flawless sensor.












Several people in this thread, me included, are having issues with the spinning bug.

As far as I can tell, nobody with the issue has been able to fix it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mg7l0k*
> 
> Which of the sensors is better - G303 or G400s?


You might have to try that for yourself. The 303 has higher malfunction speed, but there are plenty of people who prefer the tracking of older Logitech mice (and just other mice in general).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> G303's PMW3366 is currently top of the line.


What are you basing that claim off of?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> G303 has a flawless sensor.


No, please stop with the "flawless sensor" rubbish. Calling the mice in this list "flawless" is a joke.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzbKDmFOqsP_ut2RdctD01OEbZzbXol6HLwqVkSmZcg/edit#gid=0

There has never been a single mouse on the market without issues, or at least large room for improvement.


----------



## Brightmist

I've got nothing to do with that list.

I'll be calling 3366 flawless whether you guys like it or not, I'm not having any spazzing out issues after calibration on my QcK+.

Is there room for improvement? Always, yet it doesn't have a noticeable flaw, therefore flawless.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nds39gk*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several people in this thread, me included, are having issues with the spinning bug.
> 
> As far as I can tell, nobody with the issue has been able to fix it.


It's fixable by changing to a different mouse pad.
Some pads turn the sensor into Russian Vodka Stomach cursor even default (this has been proven).
Factory default tuning works on most surfaces.
Custom tuning only works on some surfaces.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> It's fixable by changing to a different mouse pad.
> Some pads turn the sensor into Russian Vodka Stomach cursor even default (this has been proven).
> Factory default tuning works on most surfaces.
> Custom tuning only works on some surfaces.


I'm pretty sure it happens with any surface when surface calibration is used.

I've tried the g502 on several good surfaces and they all produce the bug--that includes the Logitech 240 and 440 with their presets, and the immaculate Func 1030XL.


----------



## Melan

Never happened on my Zero even with surface calibration. Clean your mousepad more often, does wonders.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I've got nothing to do with that list.
> 
> I'll be calling 3366 flawless whether you guys like it or not, I'm not having any spazzing out issues after calibration on my QcK+.
> 
> Is there room for improvement? Always, yet it doesn't have a noticeable flaw, therefore flawless.


If there are other mice that perform better in regards to general tracking, I'd say that's a pretty big flaw.

It's just a terrible descriptor to use in my opinion. It makes people think the mouse is perfect, or that all mice listed as "flawless" perform the same, when that is FAR from the truth.


----------



## Brightmist

Let's just agree to disagree.

edit. My comment got nothing to do with the list, it's just one sensor on two mice.


----------



## qsxcv

skylit's comments on the 3366 when the g502 was released have got to count for something right?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> skylit's comments on the 3366 when the g502 was released have got to count for something right?


Do you recall what he said exactly?


----------



## qsxcv

uh here
http://www.esreality.com/post/2676786/re-3366-is-quite-over-hyped/#pid2685127


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> If there are other mice that perform better in regards to general tracking, I'd say that's a pretty big flaw.
> 
> It's just a terrible descriptor to use in my opinion. It makes people think the mouse is perfect, or that all mice listed as "flawless" perform the same, when that is FAR from the truth.


But you still suck at games. Even using the "best mouse ever", you still suck.

Get a life, omg.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Yes, it is. We just posted a video about integration with Battlefield Hardline today.


That's sweet








Can't wait to get it in Australia when it comes out. Already got a head shot tracking program written for csgo for this


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Never happened on my Zero even with surface calibration. Clean your mousepad more often, does wonders.


The bug has been present for me with three g502's and two g302's on over 5 mats, two of which are Logitechs with supplied presets, all of which were mint and clean.

It most definitely exists, and is not uncommon.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> uh here
> http://www.esreality.com/post/2676786/re-3366-is-quite-over-hyped/#pid2685127


I see. So he's talking about sensor architecture rather than implementation. There are many things beyond the architecture that can affect mouse movement.

You can see my reply to that comment if you scroll down. He never replied back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> But you still suck at games. Even using the "best mouse ever", you still suck.
> 
> Get a life, omg.


No, I'm actually quite good. Even considering I have major disadvantages due to a physical disability.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Wow so that was you, I haven't logged in ESR since last year or something because of some people in the Quake community being way too annoying, but seeing that you got served there in a mouse thread is pretty lame. Considering that many who are very vocal there don't even have a freaking sick aim (mouse aim) and can't even hit average 45% up to 55% even in pub CA games in all difficult situations (no LG in the back or against poor dodges) totally destroyed your posts, how can people take you seriously here?
> 
> By the way apparently you hate many mice Maximilian, give me 10 mice you hated the most and I can find some player (or myself) who rape others in heavy aim based games with heavy tracking, I remember on ESR or in QL, Tribes etc when some ppl asked me which mouse I was using they were like "really?" same with some people I know in others games.
> 
> Now I understand why OC.net has gone to **** so bad, everytime I come to read this thread again I see pages filled with non sense. You people hate the hell out of the 302 and 303, for whatever silly reasons (which should just be personal preferences), you don't like it, you can't like it, so why the hell are you still here. Blaming the hardware for poor skill on a daily basis probably? Sigh.
> 
> PS: not judging ppl who hate it for malfunction speed/spinning bug (I had it too with the 302), that's totally different.


Your arguments are very contradictory if you're referring to me in the whole thing.

You acknowledge there are many very clueless, "noobs" on that website, yet you put huge regard into all the ridiculous things they said in there. Skylit's comment was one of the least ridiculous replies posted in that thread, and yet he didn't/couldn't respond to my rebuttal.

Also, I am fully aware that there are top pros who use mice that I or even most/many people think are awful. Some factors that could contribute to this are the individual's style of aim (high sens flick shots, or low sens placement shots), as well as some variance from mouse to mouse of the same brand and model.


----------



## Nds39gk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> It's fixable by changing to a different mouse pad.
> Some pads turn the sensor into Russian Vodka Stomach cursor even default (this has been proven).
> Factory default tuning works on most surfaces.
> Custom tuning only works on some surfaces.


I use a black cloth pad. Clean. Xtrac Ripper

You're saying this mouse isn't meant for use with black cloth pads?


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You can see my reply to that comment if you scroll down. He never replied back.


It just might be that there's nothing to reply at. You're stating an extremely subjective opinion/belief.

You could've said "I'm Jewish" instead for all intents and purposes.


----------



## zb0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You acknowledge there are many very clueless, "noobs" on that website, yet you put huge regard into all the ridiculous things they said in there. Skylit's comment was one of the least ridiculous replies posted in that thread, and yet he didn't/couldn't respond to my rebuttal.
> 
> Also, I am fully aware that there are top pros who use mice that I or even most/many people think are awful. Some factors that could contribute to this are the individual's style of aim (high sens flick shots, or low sens placement shots), as well as some variance from mouse to mouse of the same brand and model.


Yes many people on the QL forums and ESR who regularly post there are not even freaking good, whether it's about aim, or brain (mind game etc). I actually read your posts and it's even worse than what they come up with sometimes.

And some factors that could contribute to this can be tons of things (shapes etc whatever), but more importantly just the individual (it hurts blaming oneself performance oh yes it does, better **** on the mouse and not recognize our limits).


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> Yes many people on the QL forums and ESR who regularly post there are not even freaking good, whether it's about aim, or brain (mind game etc). I actually read your posts and it's even worse than what they come up with sometimes.
> 
> *And some factors that could contribute to this can be tons of things (shapes etc whatever),* but more importantly just the individual (it hurts blaming oneself performance oh yes it does, better **** on the mouse and not recognize our limits).


I've addressed other contributing factors, and ruled them out many times in multiple threads now.

The last part of your sentence makes no sense in relation to this discussion as I have used other mice who's performance is significantly better. So there no general notion coming from me that I am bad because the mouse I'm using is bad.


----------



## the1onewolf

Just got mine and it has noticeable rattle












This is probably a combination of Amazon packaging and delivery by Ontrac :/
It came packaged in a padded envelope instead of a box.
I also heard Ontrac flinging this (not even in front of my doorstep either - it was tossed in the middle of the walkway)
This isn't the first time they've done this and I suspect I was one of the last deliveries on the route at 8pm.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zb0t*
> 
> I remember on ESR or in QL, Tribes etc when some ppl asked me which mouse I was using they were like "really?" same with some people I know in others games.


Years ago I was playing an FPS and for the first time ever, I saw a girl that was actually playing as well as guys. I asked her what mouse she was using and she said Deathadder (original 3g). I was like, I have one of those too, what settings do you use? She didn't even know software for it existed and was using it straight out of the box with 4/11 1800 DPI or something. I then tried the mouse with software uninstalled to see what kind of horrible cursor movement this girl was using, and to my surprise, the mouse functioned 10x better without the software, and the same has been true for every mouse since.


----------



## YulawCN

Could a red mousepad increase the LOD?


----------



## Brightmist

RMA that rattling one imo, I literally have no rattle at all.


----------



## Deku

Just got my G303 and I like it alot so far.
Had a Zowie FK1 before and the biggest difference I instantly noticed was the clicking difference. Im like 20 - 25ms average faster at clicking on aim400kg(press reaction) than before.
Sensor performs pretty good, although I gotta get used to the shape a bit more. ( I have a semi claw/palm grip, like 75% claw 25% palm, I know its sounds weird but thats the way i would describe my grip







).


----------



## boogdud

This shape is an enigma. It's the only mouse I've used that felt worse the more I use it. Typically you get comfortable (or at least used to) the shape of a mouse with more use, for whatever reason this one proves opposite for me.

Every week or so I remind myself of how great the 1/2 clicks are on this mouse and I convince myself to use it. For the first few hours I always think "this isn't so bad, why did I stop using it?" After a couple days of gaming with it, I'm reminded why. It gradually feels less and less comfortable. It always feels like I'm slightly out of control since I can't grip it comfortably. The 'love handles' on the back/sides of the mouse always feel like they're protruding too far and interfere with my grip (I'm fingertip but those parts hit the meat of my palm), so it always feels like it's about to slip out of grip. Eventually it gets so annoying that I stop using it and move on to something else. After a week or two, I'll see it in my pile of mice and convince myself to try it again (because the clicks are so satisfying) and then the cycle starts all over again.

It's really frustrating.


----------



## Atavax

i guess i should open the boxes to my back ups and make sure they don't rattle : /

yep, both of them rattles even if i have scroll wheel pressed down


----------



## Atavax

As for the whole mlt04, 3310, 3988, 3366 debate.

I would say it is indisputable that individuals can detect variances in how different sensors track or even the same sensor in a different implementation.

There can be some qualities of the tracking that can objectively be measured. Like the max speed, higher is objectively better. Less speed related variance. Less smoothing is objectively better given you are using a low dpi setting. But the value of any of those qualities is subjective and the subjective feel of the sensor is probably going to be more important then those individual stats at least with the 3310, 3988, and 3366.

People like to look at the sponsored players being great with multiple mice and say well, they're the exception, they're so talented, even with a pos mouse, they are good. In reality, they are proof that the preference for sensors that track slightly differently is subjective. Playing at the highest level with a mouse is a harsher test then anything we can come up with. If the differences aren't significant there, they aren't significant anywhere.


----------



## zb0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Just got mine and it has noticeable rattle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is probably a combination of Amazon packaging and delivery by Ontrac :/
> It came packaged in a padded envelope instead of a box.
> I also heard Ontrac flinging this (not even in front of my doorstep either - it was tossed in the middle of the walkway)
> This isn't the first time they've done this and I suspect I was one of the last deliveries on the route at 8pm.


Return/RMA/Refund/whatever asap

Amazon never shipped mice or even USB stick in envelopes for me, it's weird. For a small cable they even used a freaking box with protection around it. I live in France, it might be different.


----------



## Bensam123

So I've owned a Taipan for quite some time, in addition to various other mice, and I'm upgrading to a g303. It appears as though there are tracking issues with the mouse. I've tried a func 1030 (both side), razer goliath, and a good hard desk. The desk ends up causing 'skips and the other two get weird 'jitter' that happens when moving. Sometimes it operates flawlessly, othertimes it starts 'jittering' usually when you do 45 degree pulls across the pad, vertical and horizontal at the same time. It will occasionally do this while moving simply left to right as well.

I've tried calibrating it a few different times and tried the stock profiles and it doesn't do anything to help with this.

I cleaned the lens (it's new I shouldn't need to do this) and made sure it was in a unworn part of the pad. It still did it regardless.

I'm most definitely going to be sending this mouse back. It reminds me of a mouse with a very immature driver/firmware. These sort of things usually get ironed out at the factory, but since it's so new I guess they haven't done this yet.

I do like the shape, even though this looks like a cheap dell mouse, it fits my hand perfectly as a fingertip user.


----------



## Brightmist

You probably got a faulty unit, go for a RMA.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *YulawCN*
> 
> Could a red mousepad increase the LOD?


Different design than a 3090. Different LED, etc. So different results than a 3090.

I doubt it would.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> People like to look at the sponsored players being great with multiple mice and say well, they're the exception, they're so talented, even with a pos mouse, they are good. In reality, they are proof that the preference for sensors that track slightly differently is subjective. Playing at the highest level with a mouse is a harsher test then anything we can come up with. If the differences aren't significant there, they aren't significant anywhere.


I notice when a player changes their mouse as their overall performance changes. Be it because of shape or sensor, either way, they are affected enough for me to notice. Their stats show it as well.


----------



## pinobot

Found another weird bug.
I use the internal memory and the middle button is set to CTRL+0.
When i hold the middle button and scroll at the same time the zoom is activated, scoll down is zoom out, scroll up is zoom in.
You have to do it fast otherwise it will just stutter.


----------



## deepor

I don't know what's so weird about that. I assume if you set Ctrl-0, the keyboard part of the mouse will send this:

(1) ctrl key down
(2) 0 key down
(3) 0 key up
(4) ctrl key up

If you hold down the middle mouse button, that will start to repeat. If you now scroll, you might send a wheel event between the Ctrl key down and up events, and then the browser will see Ctrl+WheelUp for example, and that's zoom out.


----------



## pinobot

The weird thing is that when using the build in standard zoom function (also CTRL+0) in LGS it doesn't happen.
Why are there more functions in LGS?


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> The weird thing is that when using the build in standard zoom function (also CTRL+0) in LGS it doesn't happen.
> Why are there more functions in LGS?


If you hold CTRL and Scroll to zoom in your browser and then hit the CTRL+0 it should restore the zoom to default which is the CTRL+0 function. I may not be understanding you correctly though.


----------



## Germ1

Just placed my order for a G303, coming from a G9X. It's finally stating to die so I need a replacement, if they were still making the G9X I would just buy another one. hopefully not disappointed. Because my search for mice has been utterly disappointing until finding the g303, everything is made for palm grip failures and weighs 600 pounds and is 7 inches long. Was surprised the direction the mice have gone in recent years. Who thinks those round heavy palm pieces of junk are comfortable.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Do you recall what he said exactly?


Yes, and I saw your toxic reply.

"3366 is literally the most advanced and strongest sensor architecture ever released up to this point. Everything is best in class in regards to what a "high end" sensor model should be and supersedes nearly every possible aspect and feature in regards to current technology."
Quote:


> In my opinion, this comment just goes to show how much of a disconnect there has been over the past 10 years between mouse developers and the competitive community.
> 
> You seem absolutely convinced that you've just achieved some great masterpiece, yet for people who actually spend their time using the mice to compete at a high level for 8-12 hours per day the mouse performs inferior to 10+ year old mice.
> 
> Clearly you don't have qualified people testing your products. And clearly you're missing something very important.


This toxic comment pissed me off so much that I decided to do something I hadn't done in YEARS.

I Just decided (quite difficult, mind you) to try sticking the 3366 into an old windows 98 (!) computer with a Sound blaster 16 ISA, Roland SCC-1 and Voodoo2 SLI+Geforce Ti (4600)
and running Unreal on my Voodoo2 SLI.
After fighting out of range errors and getting the correct VGA drivers installed (apparently it was trying to use old drivers for a T220 which I no longer have), I finally got to test the 3366 and compare it to how I remembered the 3.0 explorer to be.

First:
Windows 98 does not support 16 bit data path through USB.
The Deathadder and diamondback use 16 bit data path. When you use these mice on windows 98, they revert to 8 bit data path, which causes a malfunction speed JUST as low as the PRE MLT04 intellimouse optical ! I'm talking about the one with a <1 m/s malfunction speed. You know exactly what I'm saying--e.g, completely unusuable. These mice need the 16 bit data path for their 2-3 m/s malfunction speed.

The MLT04 also had an 8 bit data path, but keeps its full malfunction speed in windows 98, since this mouse was DESIGNED For that OS at the time.

I hooked up the G502's 3366 into windows 98 and sure enough...it did NOT malfunction, even though it was using an 8 bit data path.
I'm sure its max malfunction speed is probably much lower than on a modern OS with a 16 bit data path, but I sure couldn't reach it. Not when your desktop is at 640x480 and you're running Unreal at 1024x768 in SLI !

Mouse felt NO DIFFERENT than my MLT04 did.
Yeah, I think skylit is fully on the mark.

FWIW, the mouse DID feel ....."different" when I switched it back to the windows 7 system, but windows 7 has different mouse ballistics than windows 98, and windows 98 is fully "raw", while windows 7.....ahem...clown cursor. Despite the polling rate difference (1000 hz to 125 hz), the windows 98 system DID feel....snappier on the desktop with the G502 than the windows 7 system did.

Nothing to do with the mouse.
Everything to do with the OS being RAW And everything having more direct access to hardware.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> In reality, they are proof that the preference for sensors that track slightly differently is subjective. Playing at the highest level with a mouse is a harsher test then anything we can come up with. If the differences aren't significant there, they aren't significant anywhere.


I disagree with that for a number of reasons. Popups named one of the main ones: it does indeed affect them. But also there are other things like play/aim style, teamwork, gameplay, etc. that can reduce the impact of a subpar mouse. Though we've also seen there to be some variance in mouse performance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and I saw your toxic reply.
> 
> "3366 is literally the most advanced and strongest sensor architecture ever released up to this point. Everything is best in class in regards to what a "high end" sensor model should be and supersedes nearly every possible aspect and feature in regards to current technology."
> This toxic comment pissed me off so much that I decided to do something I hadn't done in YEARS.
> 
> I Just decided (quite difficult, mind you) to try sticking the 3366 into an old windows 98 (!) computer with a Sound blaster 16 ISA, Roland SCC-1 and Voodoo2 SLI+Geforce Ti (4600)
> and running Unreal on my Voodoo2 SLI.
> After fighting out of range errors and getting the correct VGA drivers installed (apparently it was trying to use old drivers for a T220 which I no longer have), I finally got to test the 3366 and compare it to how I remembered the 3.0 explorer to be.
> 
> First:
> Windows 98 does not support 16 bit data path through USB.
> The Deathadder and diamondback use 16 bit data path. When you use these mice on windows 98, they revert to 8 bit data path, which causes a malfunction speed JUST as low as the PRE MLT04 intellimouse optical ! I'm talking about the one with a <1 m/s malfunction speed. You know exactly what I'm saying--e.g, completely unusuable. These mice need the 16 bit data path for their 2-3 m/s malfunction speed.
> 
> The MLT04 also had an 8 bit data path, but keeps its full malfunction speed in windows 98, since this mouse was DESIGNED For that OS at the time.
> 
> I hooked up the G502's 3366 into windows 98 and sure enough...it did NOT malfunction, even though it was using an 8 bit data path.
> I'm sure its max malfunction speed is probably much lower than on a modern OS with a 16 bit data path, but I sure couldn't reach it. Not when your desktop is at 640x480 and you're running Unreal at 1024x768 in SLI !
> 
> Mouse felt NO DIFFERENT than my MLT04 did.
> Yeah, I think skylit is fully on the mark.
> 
> FWIW, the mouse DID feel ....."different" when I switched it back to the windows 7 system, but windows 7 has different mouse ballistics than windows 98, and windows 98 is fully "raw", while windows 7.....ahem...clown cursor. Despite the polling rate difference (1000 hz to 125 hz), the windows 98 system DID feel....snappier on the desktop with the G502 than the windows 7 system did.
> 
> Nothing to do with the mouse.
> Everything to do with the OS being RAW And everything having more direct access to hardware.


Your rant doesn't really make sense, or have any relevancy.

1. Malfunction speed isn't one of the things people are referring to when they praise the MLT04.
2. The vast majority of people using it are on windows 7. And if it feels better on both win7 and win8, and 99% of people are using those two systems, then for 99% of people it's gonna be better. Not to mention that on XP it's better as well.
3. I don't even know why you're trying to argue this still... almost everyone that's used an MLT04 agrees they're still #1 for FPS games. Calling my comment "toxic" is ridiculous.


----------



## Brightmist

MLT04 is an old pos sensor and your comment is a baseless, subjective and toxic claim.


----------



## CorruptBE

Meh most likely 3366 > ... (anything)

But we're at a point where a really good 3310 could be equal to the 3366 or better then a crap 3366 implementation.

I personally can't condone the MLT04 as the holy grail because it has 2 obvious flaws these days (malfunction speed and lack of a higher dpi step such as 800). Though it can be considered a "benchmark" for how snappy a mouse should feel if it's really that good at it (I still use my old 3G DA as a benchmark standard of how a mouse should feel).


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't even know why you're trying to argue this still... almost everyone that's used an MLT04 agrees they're still #1 for FPS games.


i can agree 100%.
the mlt-04 delivers incredible precision and accuracy.

I would rate the sensor responsiveness like this:
BEST to WORST
MLT-04
PMW3366
AM010
PMW3310
s3988
a3090


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> i can agree 100%.
> the mlt-04 delivers incredible precision and accuracy.
> 
> I would rate the sensor responsiveness like this:
> BEST to WORST
> MLT-04
> PMW3366
> AM010
> PMW3310
> s3988
> a3090


In which you also fail to understand the argument of everyone else: It cannot be considered the best sensor. You've just pointed it out yourself: It's the best at a specific task but overall it has 2 major flaws compared to other sensors these days.

This is why the 3366 could *overall* be considered the nr1.


----------



## Crizzl

It's the same arguments over and over on here. Person x claims some sensor is the best and person y is going to disagree, it's been seen countless times. Nobody is changing their minds and it's all based on feeling. It's futile.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> It's the same arguments over and over on here. Person x claims some sensor is the best and person y is going to disagree, it's been seen countless times. Nobody is changing their minds and it's all based on feeling. It's futile.


However it isn't.

The problem is that some people are only focused on 1 specific aspect, whereas imo to be called "best", it would have to be good at every single aspect. Otherwise we're simply stating "best at ...".

Arguably if we would only be discussing responsiveness you could even include the SS Xai in that list, which also has a very obvious flaw.


----------



## Abacus1234

I don't personally think the 3.0 feels any better than 3310. At its normal 125hz, I think it feels worse.

The 3310 is probably the best feeling sensor overall. I could use it forever and never feel like I wanted something better. +


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I personally can't condone the MLT04 as the holy grail because it has 2 obvious flaws these days (malfunction speed and *lack of a higher dpi step such as 800*).


Not having a higher CPI step isn't a flaw. A lot of people will still choose to use 400/450 even if there is 800/900 available.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> However it isn't.
> 
> The problem is that some people are only focused on 1 specific aspect, whereas imo to be called "best", it would have to be good at every single aspect. Otherwise we're simply stating "best at ...".
> 
> Arguably if we would only be discussing responsiveness you could even include the SS Xai in that list, which also has a very obvious flaw.


I'm actually unsure if MLT-04 is even the best at that "feel" stuff. I was there when opticals came out and the MLT-04 was one of the first sensors that could replace well working ball-mice for me for QuakeWorld. Except, I didn't like the way the WMO felt for some reason. Something was off with it. The Logitech MX300 felt more natural to me. That was probably just the shape, but maybe there was really something off with what you could do with an optical sensor at the time and Logitech managed to hide that with their angle snapping? The next mice that felt fine for me were then Razer's 3.5G stuff.

Perhaps people are just used to whatever unique thing the MLT-04 does when reacting to movement so then sensors that are more faithfully translating the actual finger and hand movements to mouse coordinates mistakenly feel off?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Not having a higher CPI step isn't a flaw. A lot of people will still choose to use 400/450 even if there is 800/900 available.


Of course it is a flaw, it might not affect you and me, but not having the ability to finetune the sensitivity of 2D (and 3D) environments to ones liking then that is a flaw.


----------



## Brightmist

MLT04 LOD is also higher.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Of course it is a flaw, it might not affect you and me, but not having the ability to finetune the sensitivity of 2D (and 3D) environments to ones liking then that is a flaw.


Of course it is.

And it is more likely to become a flaw in the future as well as resolutions increase.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I personally can't condone the MLT04 as the holy grail because it has 2 obvious flaws these days (malfunction speed and *lack of a higher dpi step such as 800*).
> 
> 
> 
> Not having a higher CPI step isn't a flaw. A lot of people will still choose to use 400/450 even if there is 800/900 available.
Click to expand...

A lot of people?
Sorry but the OC does not represent anywhere close to the majority of mice users








I reeeeealy doubt 400 is the most used dpi step anywhere.

The few e-sport people and hardcore wannabe pros is not even close to the majority









Check the average gamer and I am pretty sure the absolute majority uses high dpi.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> A lot of people?
> Sorry but the OC does not represent anywhere close to the majority of mice users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reeeeealy doubt 400 is the most used dpi step anywhere.
> 
> *The few e-sport people and hardcore wannabe pros is not even close to the majority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Check the average gamer and I am pretty sure the absolute majority uses high dpi.


This ^. He has spoken the truth, with very wise words







.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

I agree that it's pretty silly and old to always have this same conversation in every single thread though... even multiple times in 1 thread... We've already talked about this in this thread, let's try to stay on topic...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> MLT04 is an old pos sensor and your comment is a baseless, subjective and toxic claim.


I would say the exact same thing to you...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Meh most likely 3366 > ... (anything)
> 
> But we're at a point where a really good 3310 could be equal to the 3366 or better then a crap 3366 implementation.
> 
> I personally can't condone the MLT04 as the holy grail because it has 2 obvious flaws these days (malfunction speed and lack of a higher dpi step such as 800). Though it can be considered a "benchmark" for how snappy a mouse should feel if it's really that good at it (I still use my old 3G DA as a benchmark standard of how a mouse should feel).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> i can agree 100%.
> the mlt-04 delivers incredible precision and accuracy.
> 
> I would rate the sensor responsiveness like this:
> BEST to WORST
> MLT-04
> PMW3366
> AM010
> PMW3310
> s3988
> a3090


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abacus1234*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't personally think the 3.0 feels any better than 3310. At its normal 125hz, I think it feels worse.
> 
> The 3310 is probably the best feeling sensor overall. I could use it forever and never feel like I wanted something better. +


You can't rank sensors like that... each 3310 mouse feels completely different. Just like if a non-Logitech company would use the 3366 it would feel very different than Logitech's 3366 mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> However it isn't.
> 
> The problem is that some people are only focused on 1 specific aspect, whereas imo to be called "best", it would have to be good at every single aspect. Otherwise we're simply stating "best at ...".
> 
> Arguably if we would only be discussing responsiveness you could even include the SS Xai in that list, which also has a very obvious flaw.


Meh. It's best at the most important aspect of a sensor... And there are 3310 mice that are better in more aspects than Logitech's 3366 mice anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people?
> Sorry but the OC does not represent anywhere close to the majority of mice users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reeeeealy doubt 400 is the most used dpi step anywhere.
> 
> The few e-sport people and hardcore wannabe pros is not even close to the majority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check the average gamer and I am pretty sure the absolute majority uses high dpi.


Pretty much all high-level FPS players, since there is really no need for more. And the ones that use higher to get the native step will just lower window's slider to be the same.

But yeah, average gamer is a casual MOBA player, so they would definitely be using high DPI due to more so ignorance than anything.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quick question for anyone who has used both a G402 and G303 and used a hard pad, would you say that the mouse feet feel different?

I recently got an textured HDPE sheet for a mouse pad, and my G402 has a smooth glide on it whereas when I move the G303 has a rough glide. Both are frictionless though, but I prefer the smoothness of the G402.

Can the size of the mousefeet have an impact on this? The G402 has much larger feet on the side and G303 has two small strips for each side.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> But yeah, average gamer is a casual MOBA player, so they would definitely be using high DPI due to more so ignorance than anything.


.......................................TOXIC........................................................


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Of course it is a flaw, it might not affect you and me, but not having the ability to finetune the sensitivity of 2D (and 3D) environments to ones liking then that is a flaw.


It's in no way a _flaw_ to use the sensor purely by its hardware capabilities without tricks. Having scaling options is a convenience feature, not a performance one. Just because a sensor or mouse isn't convenient doesn't mean it's flawed, especially if it was designed for a specific user. It's undesirable by many, but not flawed.


----------



## Brightmist

Not a flaw maybe but I'd call it technical inferiority.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's in no way a _flaw_ to use the sensor purely by its hardware capabilities without tricks. Having scaling options is a convenience feature, not a performance one. Just because a sensor or mouse isn't convenient doesn't mean it's flawed, especially if it was designed for a specific user. It's undesirable by many, but not flawed.


Follow the context, it was about sensors being "the best". It can't be that as most people would want a faster cursor.

Also in regards to the MLT: it sucks in the most important aspect for me, which is PCS. I would never have the aim I have now with a higher sens and an MLT04 mouse, the difference in cursor feel performance is negligible, however the sensor crapping out every turn is the worst thing to happen.

And it is also not more accurate, with any of my 3310 mice I can be accurate (snap to target, be on target) after a short while of getting used to the shape, if someone can't do that with anything but an MLT04 mouse I suggest you start adapting.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Follow the context, it was about sensors being "the best". It can't be that as most people would want a faster cursor.
> 
> Also in regards to the MLT: it sucks in the most important aspect for me, which is PCS. I would never have the aim I have now with a higher sens and an MLT04 mouse, the difference in cursor feel performance is negligible, however the sensor crapping out every turn is the worst thing to happen.
> 
> *And it is also not more accurate, with any of my 3310 mice I can be accurate (snap to target, be on target) after a short while of getting used to the shape, if someone can't do that with anything but an MLT04 mouse I suggest you start adapting.*


This ^.


----------



## taowulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Typical G302 owner about the shape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In general one of my favorite shapes. Although I didn't like the indents on the sides.
> 
> 
> If they don't change the shape I will continue with the decision (since I decided not to buy the MX518, instead buying the Diamondback) not to buy a Logitech mouse.


After 8 or 9 years, the scroll wheel on my Diamondback broke today.

Pretty durable. I am not the most abusive, but I did pound it from time to time.

I am considering a Logitech G502 possibly as my next mouse as I want some adjustability in my next mouse, which would cost over $100 from Razer. I might consider the G303 as well.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> And it is also not more accurate, with any of my 3310 mice I can be accurate (snap to target, be on target) after a short while of getting used to the shape, if someone can't do that with anything but an MLT04 mouse I suggest you start adapting.


Now talking about the "responsiveness" of sensors there's 2 things I notice:


Most 3090 sensors: Lack of twitch precision (implementations could vary, I liked the Savu)
3310's I've tried: Precision feels much better, tracking still feels sluggish (see note below about shadowplay footage)
3366: Fixed, both precision and tracking are perfectly in order
Shadowplay: I can actually see myself tracking moving players better with the G303.

Why don't I use it? Playing with a shape that feels unnatural seems to affect my mobility as a player in FPS's. Unnatural shape leads to unnatural movement. And sometimes, being able to dodge hails of bullets and hover from cover to cover like a ghost with perfect flow, has more value.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> .......................................TOXIC........................................................


Do you not understand that MOBAs have the highest player numbers of any game? Do you not realize that they have those numbers because they're casual games that anyone can just diddle around in with their friends? Do you not realize that the average gamer is a casual and has zero clue what's best in terms of setting up their mouse for the highest level of performance possible, and that they simply go off of buzz words and marketing tactics (like thinking higher dpi is better), mixed with some uninformed personal preference?


----------



## thedogman

Its hilarious you think all mobas are casual games that anyone can jump into and play. Play dota 2 for the next year, I guarantee you wont get over 5k mmr. If you are saying most moba players are casuals and have little skill I'm sorry, but it sounded like you were implying the game itself was easy. Dota 2 is growing into one of the biggest e sports in the world and has an incredibly competitive pro scene.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Its hilarious you think all mobas are casual games that anyone can jump into and play. Play dota 2 for the next year, I guarantee you wont get over 5k mmr. If you are saying most moba players are casuals and have little skill I'm sorry, but it sounded like you were implying the game itself was easy. Dota 2 is growing into one of the biggest e sports in the world and has an incredibly competitive pro scene.


And by that very nature it also has one of the biggest casual base too.

Don't read too much into that. He obviously did not mean that they are ALL casual players.


----------



## Abacus1234

He did say they have high numbers because they are casual games. Maybe they don't require the mouse precision of fps, but they are not inherently casual. More of his stupid elitist bias.


----------



## prosunza

i'm just curious. Does G303's sensor perform better than g502 in term of performance ?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prosunza*
> 
> i'm just curious. Does G303's sensor perform better than g502 in term of performance ?


I'm awaiting a confirmation, but the G303 and G502 have the same innards, so their tracking should be "equal" considering each individual units' variances.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Meh most likely 3366 > ... (anything)
> 
> But we're at a point where a really good 3310 could be equal to the 3366 or better then a crap 3366 implementation.
> 
> I personally can't condone the MLT04 as the holy grail because it has 2 obvious flaws these days (malfunction speed and lack of a higher dpi step such as 800). Though it can be considered a "benchmark" for how snappy a mouse should feel if it's really that good at it (I still use my old 3G DA as a benchmark standard of how a mouse should feel).


The MLT04 was my daily driver for ages, until I gave it away.
It simply wasn't sensitive enough. I am a low sens player and the 400 max DPI with the low malfunction speed simply outweighed any benefit to it being raw.

I used it on windows 98 for YEARS.

I put my 3366 on windows 98 with some difficulty. and it felt THE SAME. (just like the MLT04 did in 98)
Then I put the 3366 back on windows 7 and it didn't feel 'quite' as snappy, BUT it was MUCH smoother.

Remember windows 98 does not support 16 bit data path MLT04 uses 8 bit data path in 98. Maybe that's it. MLT04 will also use 8 bit path in windows 7, 3366 will use 16 bit.

Have you used 3366 in wnidows 98? no.


----------



## jeshuastarr

the nature of moba's causes them to not require the same responsiveness as a first person shooter. what matters more to a moba player is tracking consistency (speed and precision), mouse button lag, and build quality. having less input lag on the tracking is the most important for mouse to feel natural. it is what allows your cursor or crosshair to feel like an extension of yourself. it is what lets you make corrections in realtime to your aim. this kind of precision correction will never be as important in a moba as in a first person shooter, but it is what makes a mouse truly enjoyable to use.

finalmouse: high tracking speed, high precision, high responsiveness, low input lag
mlt-04 intellimice: low tracking speed, high tracking precision, high responsiveness, low input lag

if someone could comment on whether or not the g303 daedalus has the same firmware in regards to tracking as the g502, that would be helpful
g502: very high tracking speed, excellent precision, low tracking responsiveness, high input lag

the g502, while being very enjoyable to watch just how damn smooth it was, could not compete in any way in realtime aim corrections due to its tracking input lag.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Do you not realize that the average gamer is a casual and has zero clue what's best in terms of setting up their mouse for the highest level of performance possible, and that they simply go off of buzz words and marketing tactics (*like thinking higher dpi is better*), mixed with some uninformed personal preference?


To be fair though, higher dpi is almost unequivocally better in mobas, as long as you can control your cursor. Unless you really think that "informed" people should be using low CS dpi for mobas, in which, allow me to lol in your general direction.


----------



## jeshuastarr

higher dpi offers a significant improvement in the consistency of longer snaps but affords far less control for precision movement. this would definitely benefit mobas yet act counterproductively in first person shooters such as cs. it is important to note that the implementation of the sensor is far and above the most important aspect of a mouse and that it is absolutely possible to have a 400 dpi mouse outperform a 5000, 6500 or 12000 dpi mouse in both moba and fps games; however, higher dpi mice are almost immediately eliminated from the running for competitive mice in fps games due to the necessity of a stronger smoothing algorithm. a 400 dpi mouse being better in mobas than high dpi mice is distinctly limited by the technical specifications of the sensor itself; therefore, for the moment, high dpi mice may currently offer the best competitive edge in mobas.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> To be fair though, higher dpi is almost unequivocally better in mobas, as long as you can control your cursor. Unless you really think that "informed" people should be using low CS dpi for mobas, in which, allow me to lol in your general direction.


*How much CPI do you really need?*

As a general rule there is no advantage to high CPI in terms of cursor precision. In fact this academic paper (http://interaction.lille.inria.fr/~roussel/publications/2013-CHI-useful-resolution.pdf) states that the maximum useful resolution that people in the test sample could control is 200-400CPI. Anything extra is wasted because humans simply cannot move their hands with that sort of precision. The suggestion that higher CPI will somehow improve your accuracy is marketing.

The unfortunate downside of this marketing is that in some cases high CPI can actually be harmful to sensor performance. Some of the earlier high CPI sensors were prone to jitter and in attempting to fix this problem the mouse manufacturers were forced to implement strong smoothing algorithms, which some people on these forums associate with imprecise cursor movement or input lag. Possibly the newest Logitech mice have found a way round this problem by (so they claim) using different levels of smoothing for different CPI resolutions. That is a lot of effort for the sake of some largely useless marketing.

The sole advantage of CPI is that it allows you to set the sensitivity of your mouse so that a smaller movement can cover a greater distance on screen. This is only really relevant on the windows desktop (if you refuse to adjust the windows slider) or in games that don't let you adjust sensitivity. In this case a higher CPI can be used to increase your sensitivity to a comfortable level, but to be clear this will not increase the precision of your movements.

*TLDR:* If you are comfortable playing at 400CPI then there is no advantage in a higher CPI mouse.


----------



## thedogman

Obviously the participants in the experiment would be less accurate as they moved up in cpi. We don't know the participants background, it never specified if they were normal people or semi pro or pro gamers. If these people have no fps experience or game experience their control at any cpi will be ****. The average office workers mouse is probably 400 cpi, if they never changed it for gaming they would obviously be less accurate at a higher cpi. How long did they give the people to adjust to the new cpi? They would need to have a few weeks or longer to become fully adjusted. Wouldn't it make more sense for the experiment to use pro cs players and have them test at different cpis every couple of months after having time to adapt to the new cpi?


----------



## boogdud

edit: re-reading your reply, I'm not sure you realize I was talking specifically about mobas, and using low dpi in them. The thread was suggesting that max was saying people that use higher dpi in a moba were somehow 'uninformed'.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> *The sole advantage of CPI is that it allows you to set the sensitivity of your mouse so that a smaller movement can cover a greater distance on screen*. This is only really relevant on the windows desktop (if you refuse to adjust the windows slider) or in games that don't let you adjust sensitivity. In this case a higher CPI can be used to increase your sensitivity to a comfortable level, but to be clear this will not increase the precision of your movements.


Which is exactly why _it is advantageous_ to use the highest dpi _you can control properly_ (remain accurate with) in a moba.

Nobody is saying that it increases your accuracy. We're talking about using higher dpi (and by higher, I just mean higher than the typical cs "pro" dpi, certainly not the ridiculous marketing hype numbers ln the several thousands) in mobas. A person using a 400dpi mouse with the with the most accurate hand in the world is going to falter to a player with a 1600dpi mouse that is even moderately accurate in a moba. While you're swiping around your desk like a monkey in a tree @400 dpi, they're running circles around you. The advantages of low (~400) dpi ends when you step outside of the fps genre. I don't care if you're comfortable with 400 dpi or not, there is no advantage to having low dpi in a moba. Unless you just absolutely can't target anything with a higher dpi.
Quote:


> *TLDR:* If you are comfortable playing at 400CPI then there is no advantage in a higher CPI mouse.


Which is exactly why it is advantageous to use the highest dpi you can control properly (remain accurate with) in a moba. There is most definitely an advantage.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> *TLDR:* If you are comfortable playing at 400CPI then there is no advantage in a higher CPI mouse.


I'm not.

I do better at 800.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> The MLT04 was my daily driver for ages, until I gave it away.
> It simply wasn't sensitive enough. I am a low sens player and the 400 max DPI with the low malfunction speed simply outweighed any benefit to it being raw.
> 
> I used it on windows 98 for YEARS.
> 
> I put my 3366 on windows 98 with some difficulty. and it felt THE SAME. (just like the MLT04 did in 98)
> Then I put the 3366 back on windows 7 and it didn't feel 'quite' as snappy, BUT it was MUCH smoother.
> 
> Remember windows 98 does not support 16 bit data path MLT04 uses 8 bit data path in 98. Maybe that's it. MLT04 will also use 8 bit path in windows 7, 3366 will use 16 bit.
> 
> Have you used 3366 in wnidows 98? no.


Why would I give a damn?

I used a ball mouse, then a MX300 and then a MX510 (with the Windows usbport.sys hack) when I was young. Not realizing what malfunction speed was until I was hitting it constantly on a Logitech G5. If you're hitting malfunction speed consistently, that's imo when you can seriously consider a mouse UNUSABLE for a specific player and how he uses it.

How a player uses it will differ from player to player, but to me a MLT04 would be useless.

A "flawless" sensor (which is not necessarily the right word to use) would have to work well for every player in every situation. In that aspect the 3366 triumphs over the MLT04, it's not even up for discussion. Responsiveness could be up for discussion, but not OVERALL performance.


----------



## Melan

I don't even see the difference as long as sensitivity is adjusted accordingly.
400 cpi & 2 or 800 @ 1 or 1600 @ 0.5 etc


----------



## Necroblob

Haha that provoked a few responses.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Obviously the participants in the experiment would be less accurate as they moved up in cpi. We don't know the participants background, it never specified if they were normal people or semi pro or pro gamers. If these people have no fps experience or game experience their control at any cpi will be ****. The average office workers mouse is probably 400 cpi, if they never changed it for gaming they would obviously be less accurate at a higher cpi. How long did they give the people to adjust to the new cpi? They would need to have a few weeks or longer to become fully adjusted. Wouldn't it make more sense for the experiment to use pro cs players and have them test at different cpis every couple of months after having time to adapt to the new cpi?


I'm sure you can pick holes in any methodology and I wouldn't be surprised if there are outliers (whether or not they're pro gamers) who can control their mouse with greater precision than the average person. That's the limitation of any sample. Despite its limitations I'd still give more weight to a formal study than to pure speculation. To consider it another way: do you think that you can accurately move a mouse 1/400th of an inch let alone 1/800th?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> edit: re-reading your reply, I'm not sure you realize I was talking specifically about mobas, and using low dpi in them. The thread was suggesting that max was saying people that use higher dpi in a moba were somehow 'uninformed'.


I think we're saying the same thing. I certainly understand that you might want to use higher CPI to increase your sensitivity. It's the false claims about it improving precision that I wanted to discredit. The only point that where I'd disagree is that I think people should generally try to use the lowest CPI that they find comfortable rather than the highest that they can control, but, as you said, that's probably just my FPS mentality coming through.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I'm not.
> I do better at 800.


Nothing wrong with that. I only said 400 CPI because that's roughly what the Microsoft mice use. I'm thinking more about the crazy kids running around on 5000 CPI thinking it'll give them an aimbot.


----------



## Atavax

CPI for FPS and moba are different. In FPS, 1 count doesn't equal 1 pixel, so its really about finding the highest in game sensitivity where you are precise enough for the game, and then with modern sensors, you can set the CPI to whatever number gives you your desired cm/360 with that in game sensitivity. In moba's you can have 1 count equal 1 pixel, so CPI's relation to your desired sensitivity is more important.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> Nothing wrong with that. I only said 400 CPI because that's roughly what the Microsoft mice use. I'm thinking more about the crazy kids running around on 5000 CPI thinking it'll give them an aimbot.


+ They use over 9000 ingame sens.

Honestly I was fine with 400 in CSGO when using 720p, but at 1080p I find myself preferring 800.

I personally think dpi cannot be looked at as a single sole variable, it's one that needs to be looked at with 2 other variables in mind: ingame sensitivity and resolution and how this all eventually translates to the end result for the end user looking at the monitor.

On the desktop I can consistently move 1 pixel left and right using 800 dpi and 6/11 (with a responsive enough mouse! There have been 3090 mice that actually don't allow me to do this consistently). Hell I can even do that at 1600, beyond that it becomes harder.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Why would I give a damn?
> 
> I used a ball mouse, then a MX300 and then a MX510 (with the Windows usbport.sys hack) when I was young. Not realizing what malfunction speed was until I was hitting it constantly on a Logitech G5. If you're hitting malfunction speed consistently, that's imo when you can seriously consider a mouse UNUSABLE for a specific player and how he uses it.
> 
> How a player uses it will differ from player to player, but to me a MLT04 would be useless.
> 
> A "flawless" sensor (which is not necessarily the right word to use) would have to work well for every player in every situation. In that aspect the 3366 triumphs over the MLT04, it's not even up for discussion. Responsiveness could be up for discussion, but not OVERALL performance.


His idea was that the people that like the MLT-04 are maybe just fooled by those mice not using USB in a way that newer mice do. Some things might not have been possible at that time when the MLT-04 mice were designed because the USB driver of Windows 98 was targeted. He then suggests to compare a 3310 or 3366 mouse to a MLT-04 mouse in Windows 98, because that's where the newer mice will perhaps be forced to run similarly crippled. If you'd find out that the 3366 feels similar to the MLT-04 in that environment, that would lead to something interesting to think about.

The idea seems suspicious to me because overclocking the USB port worked in 98, and the increased Hz should make it so 8-bit data is enough, but you never know.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> To be fair though, higher dpi is almost unequivocally better in mobas, as long as you can control your cursor. Unless you really think that "informed" people should be using low CS dpi for mobas, in which, allow me to lol in your general direction.
> 
> 
> 
> *How much CPI do you really need?*
> 
> As a general rule there is no advantage to high CPI in terms of cursor precision. In fact this academic paper (http://interaction.lille.inria.fr/~roussel/publications/2013-CHI-useful-resolution.pdf) states that the maximum useful resolution that people in the test sample could control is 200-400CPI. Anything extra is wasted because humans simply cannot move their hands with that sort of precision. The suggestion that higher CPI will somehow improve your accuracy is marketing.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> We used a right-handed Razer Imperator 2012 mouse on a varnished plywood desk (Figure 2a,coefﬁcientofstaticfriction µ = 0.17). We used libpointing [2]tobypassthesystem's transfer function and access raw motion information. Weadjustedthepollingrateofthemouseto500Hzandveriﬁeditsadvertisedresolution(6400CPI)bylookingattheraw displacementreportedforareferencedistancemeasuredwith a ruler. We also used Razer software to calibrate the mouse for the desk's surface. The display was a 22" LCD monitor (DELL 2208WFP) using a 1680×1050 pixel resolution (90 PPI) at 60 Hz


Nice set up there straight up varnished plywood using an imperator 2012 we all know how everyone loves that philips twin eye.
Quote:


> Participants were instructed to do their best to stay under the maximum allowed distance, without any time or posture constraint.


Cool so you're equating this to what? Games in which you have no time limit to perform an action? They weren't even required to hold a mouse like they would use it they were just asked to move the mouse along a straight path how ever possible with their hand.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair though, higher dpi is almost unequivocally better in mobas, *as long as you can control your cursor*. Unless you really think that "informed" people should be using low CS dpi for mobas, in which, allow me to lol in your general direction.
> edit: re-reading your reply, I'm not sure you realize I was talking specifically about mobas, and using low dpi in them. The thread was suggesting that max was saying people that use higher dpi in a moba were somehow 'uninformed'.
> Which is exactly why _it is advantageous_ to use the highest dpi _you can control properly_ (remain accurate with) in a moba.
> 
> Nobody is saying that it increases your accuracy. We're talking about using higher dpi (and by higher, I just mean higher than the typical cs "pro" dpi, certainly not the ridiculous marketing hype numbers ln the several thousands) in mobas. The advantages of low (~400) dpi ends when you step outside of the fps genre. I don't care if you're comfortable with 400 dpi or not, there is no advantage to having low dpi in a moba. Unless you just absolutely can't target anything with a higher dpi.
> Which is exactly why it is advantageous to use the highest dpi you can control properly (remain accurate with) in a moba. There is most definitely an advantage.


It somewhat depends on what you're referring to as "high CPI". Someone using between 400 and 1200cpi (depending on particular mouse and monitor resolution) is going to be able to control their cursor much more precisely than someone using 1600-12,000 CPI.

I know that when I tried DOTA there was no sensitivity adjustment, so to change your sensitivity at all requires CPI adjustment. I know that in DOTA I did not feel comfortable using 400CPI on 1920x1080. I think it was mainly due to the lack of a "drag scroll" function, since I use the equivalent sensitivity in SC2 just fine.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> A person using a 400dpi mouse with the with the most accurate hand in the world is going to falter to a player with a 1600dpi mouse that is even moderately accurate in a moba. While you're swiping around your desk like a monkey in a tree @400 dpi, they're running circles around you.


Uh... wut... this isn't an arena shooter where you're required to do 360s very quickly...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously the participants in the experiment would be less accurate as they moved up in cpi. We don't know the participants background, it never specified if they were normal people or semi pro or pro gamers. If these people have no fps experience or game experience their control at any cpi will be ****. The average office workers mouse is probably 400 cpi, if they never changed it for gaming they would obviously be less accurate at a higher cpi. How long did they give the people to adjust to the new cpi? They would need to have a few weeks or longer to become fully adjusted. Wouldn't it make more sense for the experiment to use pro cs players and have them test at different cpis every couple of months after having time to adapt to the new cpi?


CPI is mostly irrelevant in FPS games, as you can adjust your sensitivity between ranges of extremely low to extremely high by simply using the ingame sensitivity adjustment. The main reason why the vast majority of pro and high level FPS players use 400cpi or the equivalent (via window's slider).

You would also have to keep in mind that the vast majority of mice do NOT perform the same on all CPI steps.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Games in which you have no time limit to perform an action?


Pretty much every competitive game is ruled or heavily influenced by the same concept of "the faster you can make precise adjustments, the better you'll be". If there's no time constraints it's probably not competitive.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> They weren't even required to hold a mouse like they would use it they were just asked to move the mouse along a straight path how ever possible with their hand.


So they were left to do it to the best of their abilities, using whatever grip gave them the best control for the task. How is that a problem?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thedogman*
> 
> Its hilarious you think all mobas are casual games that anyone can jump into and play. Play dota 2 for the next year, I guarantee you wont get over 5k mmr. If you are saying most moba players are casuals and have little skill I'm sorry, but it sounded like you were implying the game itself was easy. Dota 2 is growing into one of the biggest e sports in the world and has an incredibly competitive pro scene.


No one is saying the game is bad, but games like MOBA are more about the minds than actual mouse mechanics.


----------



## Sencha

The game is bad

j/k


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> The MLT04 was my daily driver for ages, until I gave it away.
> It simply wasn't sensitive enough. I am a low sens player and the 400 max DPI with the low malfunction speed simply outweighed any benefit to it being raw.
> 
> I used it on windows 98 for YEARS.
> 
> I put my 3366 on windows 98 with some difficulty. and it felt THE SAME. (just like the MLT04 did in 98)
> Then I put the 3366 back on windows 7 and it didn't feel 'quite' as snappy, BUT it was MUCH smoother.
> 
> Remember windows 98 does not support 16 bit data path MLT04 uses 8 bit data path in 98. Maybe that's it. MLT04 will also use 8 bit path in windows 7, 3366 will use 16 bit.
> 
> Have you used 3366 in wnidows 98? no.


I think you're on to something.
Let me add to this difference of data path: The higher the framerate of the sensor (and the 3366 has the highest from all optical sensors) the easier it is for us to falsely believe that this smooth tracking comes with input lag.

I have to say though, that the MLT04 still has the least amount of angle snapping I ever encountered. To me though, that low amount is already too low. I often have trouble placing the crosshair perfectly because the straight lines I want to do are still a bit wavey. Maybe that's why I used the WMO with sens of ~80cm back in the days to counter that.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> His idea was that the people that like the MLT-04 are maybe just fooled by those mice not using USB in a way that newer mice do. Some things might not have been possible at that time when the MLT-04 mice were designed because the USB driver of Windows 98 was targeted. He then suggests to compare a 3310 or 3366 mouse to a MLT-04 mouse in Windows 98, because that's where the newer mice will perhaps be forced to run similarly crippled. If you'd find out that the 3366 feels similar to the MLT-04 in that environment, that would lead to something interesting to think about.
> 
> The idea seems suspicious to me because overclocking the USB port worked in 98, and the increased Hz should make it so 8-bit data is enough, but you never know.


*Someone honor this guy*

That's exactly the point I was trying to make









if this did turn out to be true, then that would be something that has to be considered for future sensors and operating systems and (eventually) native USB 3 parts....
For mouse science!


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I think you're on to something.
> Let me add to this difference of data path: The higher the framerate of the sensor (and the 3366 has the highest from all optical sensors) the easier it is for us to falsely believe that this smooth tracking comes with input lag.
> 
> I have to say though, that the MLT04 still has the least amount of angle snapping I ever encountered. To me though, that low amount is already too low. I often have trouble placing the crosshair perfectly because the straight lines I want to do are still a bit wavey. Maybe that's why I used the WMO with sens of ~80cm back in the days to counter that.


Yeah there should have been an angle snapping slider in the Logitech LGS drivers, like there is in the Asus drivers for their new mouse.
You can turn on angle snapping in the LGS for the 3366, but the snapping's pretty high. Have you tried that?


----------



## Melan

I've tried using angle snapping on 303 but for some reason either setting produced same result. It looks just like this nonagressive angle snapping on mx500 compared to g500 with very obvious one (when enabled)


----------



## Falkentyne

Wow that seems bizarre.
When I enabled angle snapping on my G502, it moved like my 3G dethadder did with the "prediction enabled" (drift control) firmware (or the firmware before Razer ever released prediction free firmware).
It was absurdly easy to draw straight lines.

With angle snapping disabled, it's next to impossible to draw a straight line unless you drop the DPI to like 400, and even then you need to tryhard.


----------



## Germ1

I don't know what all you crybabies are complaining about, the mouse feels great. I don't like it better than my G9X, but it's the next best thing since I can't get another G9X. If you don't like light claw grip mice, then don't buy them. The rest of the mouse market is flooded with 7 inch long, rounded, ridiculous palm grip mice for you to choose from.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Germ1*
> 
> I don't know what all you crybabies are complaining about, the mouse feels great. I don't like it better than my G9X, but it's the next best thing since I can't get another G9X. If you don't like light claw grip mice, then don't buy them. The rest of the mouse market is flooded with 7 inch long, rounded, ridiculous palm grip mice for you to choose from.


instead of 7 inch long you get a ******ed shape instead of a normal one like abyssus, i wonder why people hate a diamond shaped mouse over a normal shaped one!


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I have to say though, that the MLT04 still has the least amount of angle snapping I ever encountered. To me though, that low amount is already too low. I often have trouble placing the crosshair perfectly because the straight lines I want to do are still a bit wavey.


same.
with avago sensors, even with angle snapping supposedly off, it still seems easier to draw nearly straight lines


----------



## Vantavia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> instead of 7 inch long you get a ******ed shape instead of a normal one like abyssus, i wonder why people hate a diamond shaped mouse over a normal shaped one!


I hope that's satire, the abyssus has a ******ed shape lol. It's tiny footprint causes it to tip and tilt obnoxiously unless this was rectified in the later models.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vantavia*
> 
> I hope that's satire, the abyssus has a ******ed shape lol. It's tiny footprint causes it to tip and tilt obnoxiously unless this was rectified in the later models.


I liked the Abyssus a lot, so he's not alone.







Its bottom half is like a boat and wobbles, but this means you can get somewhat under the mouse with your fingers and that's what I liked about it. It makes it easy to lift without having to put any force into the grip and that helped me with pain issues.


----------



## CorruptBE

That wobble annoyed me. 2014 Abyssus is better for me personally (shape wise).


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> That wobble annoyed me. 2014 Abyssus is better for me personally (shape wise).


Same. If I could get the innards of the 303 into the abyssus shape (with side buttons)... Oh Lordy.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> That wobble annoyed me. 2014 Abyssus is better for me personally (shape wise).


I am noticing this wobbling...


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Germ1*
> 
> I don't know what all you crybabies are complaining about, the mouse feels great. I don't like it better than my G9X, but it's the next best thing since I can't get another G9X. If you don't like light claw grip mice, then don't buy them. The rest of the mouse market is flooded with 7 inch long, rounded, ridiculous palm grip mice for you to choose from.


Imagine that not all people are the same, not all people like the same things.
Give it a thought mister new user.


----------



## pruik6

Is the Logitech g303 wiggle away ,my G302 is not that stabile because of the feet. So the extra to feet completely fixxed it or do it still wobble?


----------



## Brightmist

G303 doesn't wiggle, rattle or wobble.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Imagine that not all people are the same, not all people like the same things.
> Give it a thought mister new user.


I'm going to cut the new guy a break. He's obviously green, otherwise he'd realize that nearly all of the people that dislike the shape in this thread are also the long time advocates for small claw/fingertip mice. Some of us going back to Razer viper days.


----------



## Aventadoor

G303 does wobble.
Its simply cause the base is so narrow that its very easy to tilt the mouse, unfortunaly.


----------



## Menthalion

Most people discussing wobble on the last page were talking about the original Abyssus.

It's impossible for me to wobble the G303, even if I tried (Steelseries 9HD hardmat). G302 was very easy to wobble due to the side feet being next to the sensor. The G303 has feet at the far edges; they're 6 cm across, which is hardly "narrow", and span wider than most front/back only mousefeet. It is physically impossible, unless you use any of the following mousing surfaces:


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Most people discussing wobble on the last page were talking about the original Abyssus.
> 
> It's impossible for me to wobble the G303, even if I tried (Steelseries 9HD hardmat). G302 was very easy to wobble due to the side feet being next to the sensor. The G303 has feet at the far edges; they're 6 cm across, which is hardly "narrow", and span wider than most front/back only mousefeet. It is physically impossible, unless you use any of the following mousing surfaces:


G303 you can wiggle side to side easly, cause the base is so narrow in width.
The width of the base at the widest point is around 5.3cm, and bcuz of its curve it even easier to wiggle.
If the bass was just 5.3 thru out, it would be much more stable.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> G303 you can wiggle side to side easly, cause the base is so narrow in width.
> The width of the base at the widest point is around 5.3cm, and bcuz of its curve it even easier to wiggle.
> If the bass was just 5.3 thru out, it would be much more stable.


You can tilt it, but it doesn't wobble. But you can tilt any mouse if you want, you could tilt a horse with enough force.


----------



## boogdud

Mine wiggles pretty easily actually, both on hard and soft mats. But for whatever reason my front and rear mouse feet are very rounded. Like they're bubbled up.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You can tilt it, but it doesn't wobble. But you can tilt any mouse if you want, you could tilt a horse with enough force.


Have you ever heard of the people's sport called cow tipping?


----------



## taowulf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Have you ever heard of the people's sport called cow tipping?


A fine hobby with a long and illustrious history!


----------



## the1freeMan

Spoiler: Menthalion wrote



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Most people discussing wobble on the last page were talking about the original Abyssus.
> 
> It's impossible for me to wobble the G303, even if I tried (Steelseries 9HD hardmat). G302 was very easy to wobble due to the side feet being next to the sensor. The G303 has feet at the far edges; they're 6 cm across, which is hardly "narrow", and span wider than most front/back only mousefeet. It is physically impossible, unless you use any of the following mousing surfaces:






ROTFL now that was funny.


----------



## L4dd

Tilting, wobbling, or tipping, my G303 is not as stable as it could be...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I dont have stability problems with my G303 even when I move it at high speeds O.O perhaps try adjusting your grip?

Mouse tipping should be a professional e-sport :^)


----------



## Brightmist

G303 doesn't wobble at ALL. Check/Replace your mouse feet.


----------



## zeflow

I'M SICK OF HOLDING A MINIATURE SPACE SHIP LOGITECH.....PLEASE.....UN-**** YOURSELVES.....YOU CAN DO GREAT THINGS!


----------



## deak2020

after using the g502, I just can't use the g303. They shape doesn't fit me, and the weight of the g303 is just so light







.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deak2020*
> 
> after using the g502, I just can't use the g303. They shape doesn't fit me, and the weight of the g303 is just so light
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Shape and weight are two different things...


----------



## aayman_farzand

G303 doesn't wobble but I feel like it would benefit from larger side mouse feets similar to G402. The G402 glides smoother over my hard pad than the G303.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deak2020*
> 
> after using the g502, I just can't use the g303. They shape doesn't fit me, and the weight of the g303 is just so light
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Lowering the dpi would counter the weight, shape is a personal thing though. I went from the G502 to the G303 and I prefer the G303 because of its lower weight. It has its negatives like the thumb buttons and the lack of extra buttons but being able to get on shots faster for me still wins out.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> Lowering the dpi would counter the weight.


*increasing


----------



## Crizzl

How exactly would increasing dpi "counter the weight"? I agree that it should be lowered.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> How exactly would increasing dpi "counter the weight"? I agree that it should be lowered.


edit: after reading the original dilema (saying 303 is too light compared to the 502), yes, lowering the dpi on the 303 would counter the lightness somewhat.


----------



## dynastes

Nvc posted his review about the 303. Somewhat similar the 302 video (as to be expected), but still worth seeing, I think.


----------



## mynameisandy

I've been playing with the g303 for about a week now, the most comfortable way for me to hold it is with my middle finger on the scroll wheel using my ring finger to right click and lifting the mouse with my thumb and pinky. I guess it would be hybrid palm/claw grip or just a more relaxed claw grip (fingertips and base of my palm touch the mouse with the exception of my middle finger) my hand size is 18 cm for reference.


----------



## mg7l0k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mynameisandy*
> 
> I guess it would be hybrid palm/claw grip or just a more relaxed claw grip (fingertips and base of my palm touch the mouse with the exception of my middle finger) my hand size is 18 cm for reference.


Snapshot?


----------



## mynameisandy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mg7l0k*
> 
> Snapshot?


No camera on me atm, but I found some pictures from the ec2-a review by ino that are similar to how I currently hold the g303.





pretty much the same except my middle finger is on top of the scroll wheel and ring finger is on right click.

Credit to @Ino.


----------



## yukino

@CPate

Logitech Support is ignoring me now.. just gave them my Ordernumber 3 days ago, no reply after it.


----------



## SightUp

I just bought my g303. I am enjoying it thus far. Two questions...

Should I run it on 1000hz? What is recommended there?

Because of the mouse design, should the wrist be resting on the mouse pad?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> @CPate
> 
> Logitech Support is ignoring me now.. just gave them my Ordernumber 3 days ago, no reply after it.


Why do you need support?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> How exactly would increasing dpi "counter the weight"? I agree that it should be lowered.


yeah my bad. thought his mouse was heavier


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why do you need support?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bstealthy*
> 
> I received my g303 last week from Amazon but I'm concerned there may be an issue with it. There seems to be a "rattle" to it like something inside is loose (it's not the rmb/lmb or the scroll wheel and nothing with the shell)
> 
> It didn't seem to effect tracking but it is definitely noticeable and distracting.
> 
> I saw someone earlier in this thread mention the same thing. Can anyone else tell me if theirs does the same? Just pick it off the mouse pad and give it a light side to side shake and let me know
> 
> Edit: p.s. Amazon shipped mine in a padded envelope not in a box which is why there maybe reports it got crushed however mine came just fine box was fully intact etc


This.

Didn't had the problem with my other G303 mouse, it's not cool when I don't use my headset.


----------



## Melan

Mine doesn't have it. I ordered it directly from Logitech though.


----------



## yukino

Amazon one didn't have it







Just the Logitech one.. but that doesn't matter anyways.


----------



## woll3

The "Rattle Problem" should be fixed by now, but i wont tell what was causing it, lets just say it is something you wouldnt think of at first.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> The "Rattle Problem" should be fixed by now, but i wont tell what was causing it, lets just say it is something you wouldnt think of at first.


What are you even trying to imply?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why do you need support?


Probably the rattle issue.
I'm still waiting for Logitech to get back to me on that as well.


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> I just bought my g303. I am enjoying it thus far. Two questions...
> 
> Should I run it on 1000hz? What is recommended there?
> 
> Because of the mouse design, should the wrist be resting on the mouse pad?


When you use the internal memory u can best use 1000 hz because the button latency increases with lower polling rates.
Strangely enough when using LGS the button latency doesn't increase with lower polling rates.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> When you use the internal memory u can best use 1000 hz because the button latency increases with lower polling rates.
> Strangely enough when using LGS the button latency doesn't increase with lower polling rates.


Most ******ed thing i've heard... Ever.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Most ******ed thing i've heard... Ever.


You mustn't have heard much things then.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> When you use the internal memory u can best use 1000 hz because the button latency increases with lower polling rates.
> Strangely enough when using LGS the button latency doesn't increase with lower polling rates.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Most ******ed thing i've heard... Ever.


All the same I didn't completely understand it...


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> What are you even trying to imply?


That the issue has already been pointed out and the "responsible party" is fixing it, probably.

Also it is just simply funnier letting people find the cause by themselves.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I dont have stability problems with my G303 even when I move it at high speeds O.O perhaps try adjusting your grip?
> 
> Mouse tipping should be a professional e-sport :^)


I'm now holding it with my thumb immediately behind the corner after the side buttons to prevent this, and it seems to work well while it helps with keeping it vertically aligned, which should help tracking. This is the fingertip grip where my palm does not rest on it?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I'm now holding it with my thumb immediately behind the corner after the side buttons to prevent this, and it seems to work well while it helps with keeping it vertically aligned, which should help tracking. This is the fingertip grip where my palm does not rest on it?


If I had to define it:
Fingertip grip: Most of your "movement" comes from the fingers
Claw grip: Most of your "movement" comes from your wrist/arm


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Most ******ed thing i've heard... Ever.


It sounds ******ed for the same reason landing on the moon sounds ******ed to people that don't believe it.

Use the Bloody mouse shooting speed test.
Now program the middle mouse to left button down, right button down, left button up, right button up in the internal memory and LGS memory.
Test. with different polling rates.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> That the issue has already been pointed out and the "responsible party" is fixing it, probably.
> Also it is just simply funnier letting people find the cause by themselves.


Well you know what they say about transparency


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> It sounds ******ed for the same reason landing on the moon sounds ******ed to people that don't believe it.
> 
> Use the Bloody mouse shooting speed test.
> Now program the middle mouse to left button down, right button down, left button up, right button up in the internal memory and LGS memory.
> Test. with different polling rates.


The difference here is that macros are executed on the mouse when using internal memory, and on the host computer using LGS memory.


----------



## Creizai

Real quick question..

Are you guys removing the mouse skates around the sensor on the G303 like people did on the g302?


----------



## Melan

Nope.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> Real quick question..
> 
> Are you guys removing the mouse skates around the sensor on the G303 like people did on the g302?


Nope. I haven't modded mines at all


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> The difference here is that macros are executed on the mouse when using internal memory, and on the host computer using LGS memory.


That's pretty obvious but doesn't explain anything.


----------



## mg7l0k

Anyone know what the button latency is on the G303?

There's an app you can get an estimate - http://www.bloody.tw/en/download.php, I got pretty consistent results Logitech G400s vs Roccat Kone Pure Military and KPM was about 3 ms slower


http://imgur.com/8qUAzU1


----------



## Melan

Logitech mice have about 6ms latency afaik. (+/- 1.5ms)


----------



## dmbr

Is there any difference in performance between using desktop files and onboard memory?

My g303 keeps forgetting my binds when using onboard memory.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mg7l0k*
> 
> Anyone know what the button latency is on the G303?
> 
> There's an app you can get an estimate - http://www.bloody.tw/en/download.php, I got pretty consistent results Logitech G400s vs Roccat Kone Pure Military and KPM was about 3 ms slower
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/8qUAzU1


When I first got the g303 I ran it against a few different mice. If I remember right the result was that the g303 was pretty much exactly the same as the g400 and somewhere between 6 and 12ms faster than the EVGA x5, deathadder 3.5G, and Zowie EC2-a though I don't remember any of the specific results anymore.


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> That's pretty obvious but doesn't explain anything.


Macros running on the device itself are limited by the polling rate. Each action will happen at the polling interval. Macros running in software can run independently of the polling rate.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> *How much CPI do you really need?*
> 
> As a general rule there is no advantage to high CPI in terms of cursor precision. In fact this academic paper (http://interaction.lille.inria.fr/~roussel/publications/2013-CHI-useful-resolution.pdf)...


There was another study like this involving different pointing devices other than the mouse and mouse resolution up to 1800cpi posted in some thread on OCN. Anybody have that link? I can't find it anymore.


----------



## yukino

people were right.. no comment about the logitech support, it's just bad.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> Real quick question..
> 
> Are you guys removing the mouse skates around the sensor on the G303 like people did on the g302?


Hell yeah! My first thing is to replace the crap stock feet on every mouse. Pic


----------



## Melan

Those look like hyperglides.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Those look like hyperglides.


Feels like HGs too.







Genuine handmade PTFE feet by me.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> people were right.. no comment about the logitech support, it's just bad.


Yeah their support has gone tits up.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Feels like HGs too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genuine handmade PTFE feet by me.


What did you make it from? Please teach


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What did you make it from? Please teach


It's pretty straightforward. click


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yukino*
> 
> @CPate
> 
> Logitech Support is ignoring me now.. just gave them my Ordernumber 3 days ago, no reply after it.


PM me your case number.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> It's pretty straightforward. click


You don't seem to have feet around the sensor, how different does that feel? I've been thinking about doing that but not sure how it will hold up and I don't want to waste feet like that.


----------



## bigjw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> PM me your case number.


whats the ETA on NZ release?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> You don't seem to have feet around the sensor, how different does that feel? I've been thinking about doing that but not sure how it will hold up and I don't want to waste feet like that.


I always remove the ones around the sensor. (G100s, G402, G303) They are useless and just generate unnecessary friction. I use fingertip grip, so I dont press the mouse down to the pad at all.
Returning to your original question, I don't even know how they glide with the middle feet. My first thing is to check the mouse if it's working, then I make my own glides for them and throw away the crappy stock feet.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigjw*
> 
> whats the ETA on NZ release?


I am unable to provide this information. The product is released - it's not possible for me to predict when distributors will purchase it or vendors will acquire it for sale.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> I always remove the ones around the sensor. (G100s, G402, G303) They are useless and just generate unnecessary friction. I use fingertip grip, so I dont press the mouse down to the pad at all.
> Returning to your original question, I don't even know how they glide with the middle feet. My first thing is to check the mouse if it's working, then I make my own glides for them and throw away the crappy stock feet.


I don't know why but I just went ahead and removed mine after listening to you.

It glides so much better on my hard pad now. I've been complaining about it in this thread because my G402 glides smoother compared to the G303. Guess those two feet were creating a speed-breaker effect of sorts if you know what I mean









Thanks


----------



## sonskusa

After using the 303 for awhile I've grown to find the weight distribution uncomfortable, especially compared to my two other favorite mice atm (ec2a and naos 7k). It is simply too back heavy. I decided to try and remedy this by removing some plastic. Fortunately for me, I fingertip so much of the plastic is useless. I went ahead and popped it open, removed the dpi button (personally never had a use for a dpi button if there's software available), removed the back cover, and lastly the lighting diffusors. Put the 'scrap' all on a scale by themselves and it weighed 14g. Edges (where cover mates with the back) were a little sharp so I shaved the top of em with a straight razor. Feels much better now, overall lighter and distribution feels more balanced. Definitely recommended to those who fingertip and don't mind an ugly looking but comfortable mouse.


----------



## dmbr

Couldn't removing the feet around the sensor do...bad things? I imagine they're there for a reason.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Couldn't removing the feet around the sensor do...bad things? I imagine they're there for a reason.


Logitech is one of the few who do that. I don't understand why. I haven't seen them give a reason why they do.


----------



## qsxcv

more consistent height for the sensor maybe?


----------



## pruik6

any good mousepad suggestions for the G303>?


----------



## Ickz

Opened mine up yesterday, put a tiny square of four layers of electrical tape on the wheel button and now it feels amazing. Takes a perfect amount of force to depress.

Anyone know if g302 feet are the same size as g303? I slightly messed mine up removing them to get to the screws. I know the 302 doesn't have the side feet, but i didn't have to remove those anyway. Better yet, anyone see actual replacement 303 feet yet? Last I checked I didn't see any.


----------



## Melan

302 and 303 feet are identical (minus side feet)
Last time I asked hyperglide, they were considering making for 303.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> 302 and 303 feet are identical (minus side feet)
> Last time I asked hyperglide, they were considering making for 303.


We'll see how long the G303 lasts in the Logitech world before it gets passed over for another Star Wars model release.

Best Hyperglide sticks to making feet for classic mice rather than this current Logitech failure. As you could guess, I'm no fanboy of this monstrosity







.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> any good mousepad suggestions for the G303>?


Any cloth mousepad should work well with any mouse. Darker and plain colored is generally best.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Logitech is one of the few who do that. I don't understand why. I haven't seen them give a reason why they do.


I know why, actually, at least on the g502.
It's for balance.

Try removing the sensor feet around the G502.
While the mouse still works, try removing the weight door ALSO.
Suddenly you can't use the mouse anymore.
It tips over WAY too easily.

It already is unbalanced with the sensor feet, if you remove the weight door, but it's still usable.
But it's completely unusable if you remove both the sensor feet and the weight door. You can't even keep the mouse level.

I was able to test that without inconvenience by using two stacks of hotline games feet on my G502. I simply didn't add the extra layers of feet around the sensor.
Then when I found that it was unstable without the door, I added the 2nd layer of sensor feet.


----------



## Ickz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> We'll see how long the G303 lasts in the Logitech world before it gets passed over for another Star Wars model release.
> 
> Best Hyperglide sticks to making feet for classic mice rather than this current Logitech failure. As you could guess, I'm no fanboy of this monstrosity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Looks ugly, but performs wonderfully and feels super comfortable for some of us


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> any good mousepad suggestions for the G303>?


Roccat Hiro


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I am unable to provide this information. The product is released - it's not possible for me to predict when distributors will purchase it or vendors will acquire it for sale.


The actual Logitech site doesn't list it for the Australian region either. I'm not getting my hopes up for Australian vendors to stock it until I see it listed on the official site.
http://gaming.logitech.com/en-au/gaming-mice


----------



## Melan

I'm sure Elrick is involved. Probably stole all 302/303s in the region and dumped them somewhere in the desert.


----------



## kd5151

I was at Best Buy today and they had them in stock and on display. After looking at all the pictures online and hearing all the talk about the shape? I thought it was kinda fat and wouldn't fit. But once I held it in my hand I was wrong. It's smaller then I thought and the shape isn't that bad. The shape doesn't bother me and after looking at it again and again the shape doesn't look so out of this world.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kd5151*
> 
> I was at Best Buy today and they had them in stock and on display. After looking at all the pictures online and hearing all the talk about the shape? I thought it was kinda fat and wouldn't fit. But once I held it in my hand I was wrong. It's smaller then I thought and the shape isn't that bad. The shape doesn't bother me and after looking at it again and again the shape doesn't look so out of this world.


Maybe that opinion will change if you had to live with it for a week.


----------



## kd5151

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe that opinion will change if you had to live with it for a week.


I did have one concern and that's wobble and rotating while moving back and forth. I was try to act like I was playing cs go in the store .


----------



## Brightmist

Switched to an I-2, works nicely, has 1 CD LOD on it after calibration.


----------



## Leopardi

After several weeks of use I must say this mouse shape is an utter fail. When I get a G100s/salmosa in my hand it feels like I'm in comfort heaven... I have never appreciated the shape as much as after the G303 now.

Too bad the G100s build quality is even more fail than the shape of G303 so I'm now stuck with this.


----------



## zb0t

It's "fail" for you*, not for everyone.


----------



## SightUp

What is the general consensus here? Remove or leave the feet around the sensor alone?


----------



## Brightmist

I say leave it be, they look like catching a lot of dust.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

*G303 last mouse?*







okay low end mouse

Logitech will no longer produce "low-end" mice, citing a decline in PC accessories. This story has been updated to include a clarification.

According to a Reuters report, per MCV, the firm will instead focus on video accessories and streaming music, as its wireless Bluetooth speakers are now its best-selling product rage.

This will help offset the "decline in personal computers" and the lower demand for "its mice and keyboards."

Logitech said it will exit the "declining computer mouse manufacturing business," which it called a "low-margin" business. Once this occurs, the firm expects "sustained sales growth."

Its mouse sector saw a sales decline of 26% for the fiscal year ending March 31, while company profits declined 34% overall to $14.5 million and net sales down 4.7% to $467 million.

Thanks to a clarification from SJFrK, the mouse sector being phased out is the licensed OEM manufacturing of cheap mice. What this means is the company will no longer manufacturer mice for companies to resell under their own name and branding.

This means that Logitech-branded mice will continue to be offered. Thank goodness. I was about to buy their MMO mouse before some second tier seller started offering it for $400.

http://www.vg247.com/2015/04/23/logitech-mouse-pc-mice/


----------



## CPate

The statement was clear that we are exiting the OEM business. We are not stopping development and production of retail products.


----------



## qsxcv

is there ever going to be a g100s update?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IAMSTERDAM*
> 
> *G303 last mouse?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay low end mouse
> 
> Logitech will no longer produce "low-end" mice, citing a decline in PC accessories. This story has been updated to include a clarification.
> 
> According to a Reuters report, per MCV, the firm will instead focus on video accessories and streaming music, as its wireless Bluetooth speakers are now its best-selling product rage.
> 
> This will help offset the "decline in personal computers" and the lower demand for "its mice and keyboards."
> 
> Logitech said it will exit the "declining computer mouse manufacturing business," which it called a "low-margin" business. Once this occurs, the firm expects "sustained sales growth."
> 
> Its mouse sector saw a sales decline of 26% for the fiscal year ending March 31, while company profits declined 34% overall to $14.5 million and net sales down 4.7% to $467 million.
> 
> Thanks to a clarification from SJFrK, the mouse sector being phased out is the licensed OEM manufacturing of cheap mice. What this means is the company will no longer manufacturer mice for companies to resell under their own name and branding.
> 
> This means that Logitech-branded mice will continue to be offered. Thank goodness. I was about to buy their MMO mouse before some second tier seller started offering it for $400.
> 
> http://www.vg247.com/2015/04/23/logitech-mouse-pc-mice/


Those laptops and tablets are to blame.

Since they are going to focus on the "gamer" mice now, they should listen to the complaints about their design decisions.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, first of all it's braided. Second, it's not as flexible as Zowie's. Third, it already came bent in an awkward way just like G500 after months of use. Forth, it's too fat.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Zowie's cable is wrapped with copper strands. At least the cables I seen until they moved to the 3310.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> It's called shield or ground, and it's present in every cable. Usually it's the thick black wire.
> 
> Here's a WMO cable for example.


----------



## Nievin

I found the shape to be quite good. I removed the feet around the sensor and felt noticeably less drag.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Does the sensor feet serve any particular purpose?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Does the sensor feet serve any particular purpose?


The G302 didn't have the side feet and would tilt during fast swipes. The side feet takes care of that, the sensor feet serves no purpose if you ask me. There is a big difference in drag, if you remove them carefully then you can apply them back again if you don't like it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Ahhh ok I will give it a try tmw.


----------



## Caide

Had mine for about a week and the sensor malfunctions like crazy (once every few minutes), though I can't force it to malfunction by swiping fast. Did I just get a bad unit?


----------



## Brightmist

You probably got a bad unit.

Mine never malfunctioned after a month and multiple surface calibrations on multiple surfaces (including glass).


----------



## iceskeleton

Try other mouse pads and see what happens.
Also, did you use surface calibration? Try it with or without otherwise. Then just probably contact support, it shouldn't malfunction like you describe.


----------



## Caide

Tried it on 3 diff ones (qck, and goliathus speed/control) and surface calibration didn't make a difference. Thanks, I guess I'll contact support then.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Maybe you are unintentionally lifting the mouse? I initially had the same problem which I resolved by playing more.


----------



## Caide

I do find the extremely low lod annoying, but when it malfunctions in csgo I'm instantly looking straight up or down, even from a medium speed swipe across. So I don't think it's anything I'm doing in particular.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caide*
> 
> I do find the extremely low lod annoying, but when it malfunctions in csgo I'm instantly looking straight up or down, even from a medium speed swipe across. So I don't think it's anything I'm doing in particular.


It simply happens with rapid movements when Surface Tuning is enabled--which lowers LOD, so not sure why you yourself would want to use it anyway.

If it happens with calibration off, then something probably is wrong with your unit. Might want to try a hard pad till the replacement comes.


----------



## innov

Hey, just bought this mouse and liking it A LOT.

Is there any consensus on whether it's better to just use the factory default surface calibration or perform it for a pad like SS QcK heavy?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Hey, just bought this mouse and liking it A LOT.
> 
> Is there any consensus on whether it's better to just use the factory default surface calibration or perform it for a pad like SS QcK heavy?


I suggest turning it on. If it doesn't work out then turn it off.


----------



## aayman_farzand

For some reason I feel like the LOD is adjusted even without the tuning. I flipped over my mouse pad and tried dragging it around just to see how powerful the tuning was and it wasn't tracking properly at factory default. After tuning it, it worked fine. Then after I removed the tuning and applied factory default again, it still tracked fine whereas it didn't previously.


----------



## detto87

The surface tuning will try to lower the LOD as much as possible while still retaining a high m/s performance.
As the LOD of the G303 is already low enough on most surfaces I have, I see no reason to use that feature.
In fact, it is buggy on my unit which results in spins or spazzes sometimes. Factory setting doesn't have that problem.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Hey, just bought this mouse and liking it A LOT.
> 
> Is there any consensus on whether it's better to just use the factory default surface calibration or perform it for a pad like SS QcK heavy?


No.

I used surface calibration across multiple surfaces including qck+ and it worked flawlessly.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> No.
> 
> I used surface calibration across multiple surfaces including qck+ and it worked flawlessly.


What's your inches/360?


----------



## Brightmist

50cm/360


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> 50cm/360


I find it very odd you're not experiencing the bug then, considering you should be swiping the mouse pretty fast at times with that sensitivity.

I've gone through three g502's and two g303's, and tested them on two different computers with every surface imaginable (I have a pathologically massive collection), and the bug consistently appears with them all.

If your mouse really doesn't exhibit the bug (and you haven't just not triggered it yet), I'm curious which of us is in the minority, considering the large number of reports.

I'm perplexed as to why this wouldn't be a universal problem, given that it seems like a firmware issue. If this is a case of defective units, dang, that's pretty awful quality control.


----------



## Brightmist

I'm a clawtip gripper so I don't swipe too fast, I'd maybe hit 2.5 m/s.

I uninstall the LGS software after calibration.

The bug might just be related to some other setting on the computer or it just might be a chronic issue like many people stated.

I wish @CPate would comment on this.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I'm a clawtip gripper so I don't swipe too fast, I'd maybe hit 2.5 m/s.
> 
> I uninstall the LGS software after calibration.
> 
> The bug might just be related to some other setting on the computer or it just might be a chronic issue like many people stated.
> 
> I wish @CPate would comment on this.


Ah, well maybe experiment with swiping it around as fast as you can, if you care to.

Again, I'd be really perplexed if this weren't a universal firmware problem. Hopefully it's fixable in an update.


----------



## Brightmist

Tried it, it just didn't happen for me.

Tested it again extensively. I was able to produce it multiple times on QcK+ after going really hard at it.

Note that this thing didn't happen to me once after a full month of normal play. It obviously happens above a given speed.

ps. My arm hurts now


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Can confirm I have had similar spinning issue with my G303 if I swipe. In game sens: 16.2in/360


----------



## aerowalk30

This issue? I know its not the G303 but I'm curious what causes it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> This issue? I know its not the G303 but I'm curious what causes it.


If you mean the cursor suddenly spinning and looking into the sky. Then yes it is the same.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> If you mean the cursor suddenly spinning and looking into the sky. Then yes it is the same.


I just had it on random left right swipes and it would just suddenly look up at the sky.


----------



## qsxcv

did this ever happen on the g502 aswell?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> I just had it on random left right swipes and it would just suddenly look up at the sky.


It seems to happen to me the most when my mousepad is damp from sweat.


----------



## nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> did this ever happen on the g502 aswell?


G502 still glitches (although slightly less) after failed firmware fix.

Bunch of new reports but Logitech's gone quiet since their nigh year old firmware response.
https://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/G502-tracking-problems/m-p/1279150#M30829

I'm now skipping 303 purchase.. unless a proper fix comes which seems very unlikely.


----------



## Melan

It's really weird. I've purchased G303 directly from logitech and once plugged it in (installed LGS) it upgraded G303 firmware to version 95.1.24. I never had these weird cursor problems (yet).
As for fast-ish left to right swipes, mouse stops tracking sometimes because I lift front a bit (mousepad too soft), but it just stops without going all crazy.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I find it very odd you're not experiencing the bug then, considering you should be swiping the mouse pretty fast at times with that sensitivity.
> 
> I've gone through three g502's and two g303's, and tested them on two different computers with every surface imaginable (I have a pathologically massive collection), and the bug consistently appears with them all.
> 
> If your mouse really doesn't exhibit the bug (and you haven't just not triggered it yet), I'm curious which of us is in the minority, considering the large number of reports.
> 
> I'm perplexed as to why this wouldn't be a universal problem, given that it seems like a firmware issue. If this is a case of defective units, dang, that's pretty awful quality control.


I don't have this bug (with default tuning)
I tested three g502's.

Using razer goliathus speed:
Tuning (to any surface): randomly malfunctions with 1mm LOD (default mouse feeet).
Factory default tuning: no problems.

Using Puretrak talent:
Tuning to puretrak surface:
1mm LOD: (default feet, 0.6mm): no problem.
0.4mm LOD (2x0.6mm hotline games mouse feet double stacked): randomly malfunctions.

Factory default : 0.4mm LOD (2x0.6mm hotline games feet): no problem.

Test:
CS:GO with 450 DPI (to make fast swipe easier without accidentally looking at the sky or ground). 4.5 m/s to 5.5 m/s speed swipes.


----------



## Nds39gk

Just thought I'd post a follow-up.

Earlier in the thread I had the issue with my mouse randomly spazzing out where i'd be staring at the ground/sky, or having my screen go into a fast spin.

But one day, it randomly stopped. Haven't seen the issue since. I am thinking there was a hair or dust particle inside the mouse that finally dislodged.

Mouse works great now.

Though I do still hate this braided cable bull****.


----------



## Brightmist

I find the most effective way to spazz it out is to make a straight line and back, as fast as you can.


----------



## Melan

I managed to get it up to 4m/s 5 times like that without any effect. Maybe it's really just a dust particle stuck either on lens or on sensor eye.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't have this bug (with default tuning)
> I tested three g502's.
> 
> Using razer goliathus speed:
> Tuning (to any surface): randomly malfunctions with 1mm LOD (default mouse feeet).
> Factory default tuning: no problems.
> 
> Using Puretrak talent:
> Tuning to puretrak surface:
> 1mm LOD: (default feet, 0.6mm): no problem.
> 0.4mm LOD (2x0.6mm hotline games mouse feet double stacked): randomly malfunctions.
> 
> Factory default : 0.4mm LOD (2x0.6mm hotline games feet): no problem.
> 
> Test:
> CS:GO with 450 DPI (to make fast swipe easier without accidentally looking at the sky or ground). 4.5 m/s to 5.5 m/s speed swipes.


I think you misunderstand, the bug occurs with tuning on, not off. "Default" = off

By the way, the bug occurs on the Windows Desktop, too. The cursor zaps to a corner of the screen which it shouldn't (I forget which); in 3D games this manifests itself as looking straight up and spinning.


----------



## Falkentyne

In my post, I clearly said that I was USING tuning.
I said I tuned to the puetrak talent.
and I said I also used factory default.
I said that I only had the malfunction when I tuned to the Talent, when I had 1.2mm of mouse feet installed (which lowers LOD from ~1.0 mm to 0.4mm.


----------



## popups

The cable is annoying. The braid catches on the edge of my Artisan Hien. It appears it will start to fray soon because of it catching on the mouse pad. Some broken fibers are already visible. It's stiffer and thicker than the Mionix Avior and Zowie mice. It can be manipulated into shape. It feels heavier than the Zowie and Mionix cables.

If I was playing professionally, I wouldn't use this mouse based on the cable alone. I understand why (former Cloud 9 GO member) Semphis switched to another mouse after the cable gave him issues.

The ~6g difference in weight to the Zowie AM and FK is noticeable. The weight balance is at the center, where the eye of the lens is. This mouse is really heavy for its length.

From the little I played with it so far, the sensor feels immensely different than any 3090 variant or the 3310 Avior using the 3.38 firmware. It picks up fine movements, basically following everything you do, this decreased my precision by ~10-15%. With the Avior I had no issue achieving the same hit rate I have with the 3090 Zowie mice I have been using for years, literally took a few minutes, it was an easy transition. I need some time to adjust to the 3366 sensor. I might even need some angle snapping. I can see why Cloud 9's GO team had performance issues when they first started using the G303. That being said, it feels like the diagonal accuracy isn't very good at any speed of movement, like it's worse than the 3310. I need to play more to better understand this sensor.

Out of the box the LOD is very low on my red Artisan Hien, about 1 CD or less. On a generic black cloth pad it barely tracks movement at 1 CD height. On a rough black plastic pad it tracks decently at 1 CD height.

The scroll wheel is too light for my taste. It's not as light as the Avior's scroll wheel, but it's very close. I wonder how the design looks.

The shape is awful. The first few minutes of use my hand got a sharp pain in the palm because the rear has very sharp edges where the shell pieces come together. I had to avoid those edges by adjusting my grip. When I tried to lay my fingers along the arch the sides will stab into my knuckles, if I squeezed the mouse at all this will be a major issue. When clawing it feels like I am always aiming higher than I want, the sides feel to narrow at the bottom and I can feel the sharp edges of the rear. When finger tipping the mouse it feels like it wants to move forward, but the grip of the mouse prevents that. With a finger tip grip I hold the mouse at the protruding sides, this is when the length of the main buttons becomes an issue for me.

This diamond shape prevents me from getting the best performance out of the buttons because the protruding sides. The sides also stop me from grasping the mouse firmly, reducing my precision.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I can see why Cloud 9's GO team had performance issues when they first started using the G303.


lololol....
you can't be serious right


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lololol....
> you can't be serious right


When a sensor is very responsive to every movement the natural instability of a person's movement is going to cause precision issues. Trying to swipe quickly and stop right on a head in GO will not be as easy. A small amount of angle snapping will remove the human error during swipes. That's why, I assume (based on what I saw), SteelSeries added some angle snapping (or some other setting) into their Rival's SROM at release, the same for Mionix.

From what I remember, the Cloud 9 players using the G303 prototypes had decreased in their statistical accuracy. It took them some time to get accustomed to the mouse. Hiko kept switching mice. Nothing [Jordan] didn't even try to get used to the mouse for multiple reasons. Semphis switched away from the G303 too. Sean didn't show any improvements. Only Shroud has been fine with the mouse. Sorry, I cannot whip out a scientific study for you. I just watched those players for ~3 years.


----------



## MasterBash

I need to replace my G302, hit max speed a few times and it bothers me. I might get a G303 or Finalmouse 2015 once everything is fixed.

No idea yet. The G302 definitely feels good to me to palm.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Semphis switched away from the G303 too.


From what I could tell he was using the G303 at the most recent lans. 20 minutes after he was cut from c9 he swapped to a rival though.

RIP


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> From what I could tell he was using the G303 at the most recent lans. 20 minutes after he was cut from c9 he swapped to a rival though.
> 
> RIP


I heard him saying he wasn't as good with the G303 or other mice like he was with the Sensei Diablo III and the cable kept getting caught on his mouse pad. He started to use the G402 at home instead of the G303, but I think at LANs he would use the G303. Once he got fired he switched to SteelSeries mice. He doesn't care about the 3366, it appears he is more into shape.

I will be returning the G303 because the cable is going to fray completely. I have prior experienced with fraying cables, I am not going through that again. The shape is another reason for the return -- I don't want to be in pain just to use a 3366. The weight is the heaviest I would use, but this added weight (due to the marketing design) isn't acceptable to me.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The sides also stop me from grasping the mouse firmly, reducing my precision.


2nd that.

The sensors performance has improved my tracking of targets I already aimed at (vs "smoothed sensors"??), but initial movement, etc feels weird.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> 2nd that.
> 
> The sensors performance has improved my tracking of targets I already aimed at (vs "smoothed sensors"??), but initial movement, etc feels weird.


Tracking targets is great. Once you get your hand/arm moving correctly it's awesome. Using an AWP or rail gun is funner with the 3366 than a 3090 or 3310.

Currently I am struggling with swiping head shots. With my AM or FK I will hit majority of my head shots after swiping fast. I got used to the Avior quickly, I only had to adjust my timing for pressing the buttons. It could be the shape and glide of the G303 that is causing me to miss often.


----------



## CorruptBE

Well usually when a shape doesn't fit me, my aim isn't affected much, but my movement is. Movement and aim feels out of sync, sort of like a drunken warrior or something.


----------



## pruik6

Its different for everybody , i use my Logitech g302 and is for me the best mouse i got







i have very good control with it. maybe you need to spend more time with the mouse.
Its at least not that narrow that my hand cramps ,so wide and tiny good for me


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> When a sensor is very responsive to every movement the natural instability of a person's movement is going to cause precision issues. Trying to swipe quickly and stop right on a head in GO will not be as easy. A small amount of angle snapping will remove the human error during swipes. That's why, I assume (based on what I saw), SteelSeries added some angle snapping (or some other setting) into their Rival's SROM at release, the same for Mionix.


Did you try using the Angle Snapping option from LGS?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Did you try using the Angle Snapping option from LGS?


I played about two hours with the G303 today. I'm used to the sensor now.

The thing that is stopping me from being as precise as before is the shape of the mouse. With the low dynamic coefficient of friction of the feet and the inability for me to hold the mouse tightly, I don't often land exactly where I want. It forces me to hold the mouse a particular way, otherwise, it will cause immense discomfort/pain to my palm.

There is nothing I can do about the shape. It's a great disappointment. The wheel would be fine if the feedback mechanism had higher resistance and it didn't feel like it's "bouncing" when you scrolling quickly. The sensor, MCU and buttons are very good. I can only wish for Logitech to create a "competitive" gamer shape like SteelSeries, Zowie, Razer and Mionix. The G502, G303 and G402 went to far to the casual user. Throwing away the G303's shape and starting from scratch would be best thing to do rather than trying to sell this G302+. Zowie created 3 new molds to satisfy their consumers. Why can't Logitech listen?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://www.slashgear.com/mouse-blister-promises-grippier-mousing-0551256/

You could try this. Im planning to grab a pack some time next week. They might not look pretty but they look like they can get the job done. Tbh it would be nice if Logitech could make a slip on shell for the G303 to cater to people with bigger hands without forcing them onto the oh so heavy G502


----------



## dmbr

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> http://www.slashgear.com/mouse-blister-promises-grippier-mousing-0551256/
> 
> You could try this. Im planning to grab a pack some time next week. They might not look pretty but they look like they can get the job done. Tbh it would be nice if Logitech could make a slip on shell for the G303 to cater to people with bigger hands without forcing them onto the oh so heavy G502


I've tried them...they work well till they fall off, which doesn't take long.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Have anyone tried Sugru on a mouse before?


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Have anyone tried Sugru on a mouse before?


I have some and I've been thinking about it...

The stuff is very expensive and I'm not sure how easy it would be to remove if I messed up, so I'm hesitant but very enticed by the possibilities.


----------



## MasterBash

Did to make the g502 mousewheel, worked well


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> http://www.slashgear.com/mouse-blister-promises-grippier-mousing-0551256/
> 
> You could try this. Im planning to grab a pack some time next week. They might not look pretty but they look like they can get the job done. Tbh it would be nice if Logitech could make a slip on shell for the G303 to cater to people with bigger hands without forcing them onto the oh so heavy G502


Nice workaround! But impossible to clean...


----------



## Germ1

If there is anyone in LA county CA who wants this mouse, I'm getting a free G303 from Logitech as a replacement for my G9X. I'm going to be selling it.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Germ1*
> 
> If there is anyone in LA county CA who wants this mouse, I'm getting a free G303 from Logitech as a replacement for my G9X. I'm going to be selling it.


Strange that they'd replace a G9x with a 303, the G9x was a top tier mouse. I guess it's strange that they're replacing it at all since it's a couple years discontinued, but you'd think they'd replace it with a top tier mouse rather than a mid/lower one.


----------



## CorruptBE

While not my main preference, the added performance would most likely win me over if it was a G9x'ish shape.


----------



## Germ1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Strange that they'd replace a G9x with a 303, the G9x was a top tier mouse. I guess it's strange that they're replacing it at all since it's a couple years discontinued, but you'd think they'd replace it with a top tier mouse rather than a mid/lower one.


THey wanted to give me that MMO gaming mouse, I told them I would rather have a G303. I'm surprised they are replacing it with a brand new model at all. Considering I only paid 40 dollars for my G9x, and the receipt I sent them showed that I did. G303 is one of the best mice on the market right now, so not sure what you mean by "mid/lower one" The funniest part is my G9X is having double click issues, and it's fixable. It's just a matter of me opening it up and bending the little copper peice on the switch back into place.


----------



## Germ1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> While not my main preference, the added performance would most likely win me over if it was a G9x'ish shape.


I wish, I wish they had just upgraded the G9x with the new sensor. Never understand why they discontinued such a great mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im pretty sure their G303 is their highest tier mouse atm.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Im pretty sure their G303 is their highest tier mouse atm.


Together with the G502.


----------



## ENZOxWOLF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I played about two hours with the G303 today. I'm used to the sensor now.
> 
> The thing that is stopping me from being as precise as before is the shape of the mouse. With the low dynamic coefficient of friction of the feet and the inability for me to hold the mouse tightly, I don't often land exactly where I want. It forces me to hold the mouse a particular way, otherwise, it will cause immense discomfort/pain to my palm.
> 
> There is nothing I can do about the shape. It's a great disappointment. The wheel would be fine if the feedback mechanism had higher resistance and it didn't feel like it's "bouncing" when you scrolling quickly. The sensor, MCU and buttons are very good. I can only wish for Logitech to create a "competitive" gamer shape like SteelSeries, Zowie, Razer and Mionix. The G502, G303 and G402 went to far to the casual user. Throwing away the G303's shape and starting from scratch would be best thing to do rather than trying to sell this G302+. Zowie created 3 new molds to satisfy their consumers. Why can't Logitech listen?


If only Logitech G303 is 7g lighter & doesn't have sharp sides, it would have been the "PERFECT fingertip MOUSE" for me.

I had G302 before but I returned it, I'm glad to hear that they have atleast fixed the wobble by adding extra feet beneath G303's "spaceship wings".

Right now I'm waiting for ASUS ROG Sica (Omron, 80g (117g w/ cord), Same Abyssus shape, Same SS Rival 3310 sensor)


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Germ1*
> 
> G303 is one of the best mice on the market right now, so not sure what you mean by "mid/lower one" The funniest part is my G9X is having double click issues, and it's fixable. It's just a matter of me opening it up and bending the little copper peice on the switch back into place.


I'm talking price point, the 303 is a mid tier item and the 502 is currently the "top of the line" in the current gaming lineup. The G9X was the top of the gaming line when it was produced.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I'm talking price point, the 303 is a mid tier item and the 502 is currently the "top of the line" in the current gaming lineup. The G9X was the top of the gaming line when it was produced.


They both have the same MSRP of $79.99.


----------



## exitone

1. The G700s is still Logitech's top of the line with a MSRP of $99.99 and currently more expensive than the g502 on amazon.
2. Logitech g9x was top of the line when it released, yes. And also heavily price inflated.
3. g303 MSRP is $69.99


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> I claw it too, guess I'm not that sensitive to sharp edges. Can be a bit annoying at first but the more I use it the less I notice, calling it *pain* makes me smile... Some people are more adaptable than others, heck I've been using a g400 for about 2 years and I absolutely hated that shape when I first got it (still kinda do).
> I find the side panels on the g303 a bit too extruded, but I'll probably stop noticing in another couple of days.
> But again, I'm one of the few that didn't find the right ridge on the g400 annoying...
> 
> 60-40 is not that bad, obviously not for everyone, but nowhere near an abomination.
> True that it's an unwise market choice to try and sell something with those numbers, but this is the closest things yet to what the community asked for and seeing people call it abortion for deformed hands and saying Logi is a crap company is disturbing to me. If I were them I'd say: "Well ok, if that's your reaction, screw you that's the last time I waste my time on these people."
> 
> Btw : youtube comments don't deserve attention


I am constantly changing my grip when using the G303. I have to "dance" around the areas that cause pain. Currently my small finger's second knuckle is sore after playing with the G303 yesterday. The palm area near my thumb feels lightly bruised.

If I were to keep the G303, I would have to do something like this:




Out of the 12 mice I can remember using, the G303 is the only one that I cannot get used to. There have been a few that caused discomfort after extended play sessions, I wouldn't describe them as painful like I do the G303.

When a lot of the players around me were using and suggesting the MX510, I chose to go with the Diamondback because onerous thumb grooves are not for me. For the longest time I had zero reason to buy Logitech mice. Now that they have the 3366 and are focusing on the buttons, I want to use a Logitech mouse, but the shape is still holding me back. Because of the shape of the G302/3, I cannot reward them with a $70 purchase, regardless of their efforts on the sensor. That's not my fault, it's theirs.

After using the G303, I thought the person who designed the shape should be fired. That's my honest feeling about it. I can understand people make mistakes, but this one just shows how flawed their mindset is. You can't keep people like that.

I wouldn't call Logitech a "crap company." There no Valve, but they did make mistakes with some of their newest mice.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Now that they have the 3366 and are focusing on the buttons, I want to use a Logitech mouse, but the shape is still holding me back. Because of the shape of the G302/3, I cannot reward them with a $70 purchase, regardless of their efforts on the sensor. That's not my fault, it's theirs.


This situation is shared among many people. I want a Logitech mouse because I want to use the 3366. I want a Logitech mouse because of the improved switches found on the G302/G303. I want a Logitech mouse because the click latency has been proven to be among the best available.

I would even be willing to accept that I couldn't use my preferred shape but this situation is nuts.

I would LOVE a mico shaped mouse.
Can't get that? I would love a Ninox Aurora/G100s shaped mouse.
Still nothing? I would love a FK2 shape.
Still too "niche" for you? Id love to throw money at you for a FK1/Sensei/WMO shaped mouse.
Still too picky? I would regretfully accept a G502 done finalmouse style. That means keep the shape but get rid of the useless BS to end up with a ~80g mouse.

All of those would get $70 from me. Help me help you Logitech.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> This situation is shared among many people. I want a Logitech mouse because I want to use the 3366. I want a Logitech mouse because of the improved switches found on the G302/G303. I want a Logitech mouse because the click latency has been proven to be among the best available.
> 
> I would even be willing to accept that I couldn't use my preferred shape but this situation is nuts.
> 
> I would LOVE a mico shaped mouse.
> Can't get that? I would love a Ninox Aurora/G100s shaped mouse.
> Still nothing? I would love a FK2 shape.
> Still too "niche" for you? Id love to throw money at you for a FK1/Sensei/WMO shaped mouse.
> Still too picky? I would regretfully accept a G502 done finalmouse style. That means keep the shape but get rid of the useless BS to end up with a ~80g mouse.
> 
> All of those would get $70 from me. Help me help you Logitech.












_It's not me, it's you [Logitech]._

A stingy company like Zowie makes 5 molds, using the same PCB, to satisfy customers. Logitech can easily bring out something quickly to satisfy people, but I hope they don't reuse the PCB because that limits design. Just listen to the ideas from the people with the money [consumers]. They wouldn't need Cloud 9 to talk up their product.


----------



## Melan

My G303's sensor starting to die I think. Mouse randomly stops tracking sometimes, like sensor is no longer working. LEDs are ok, cord is ok, mouse is recognized by PC.
I had this same issue with FK1 but then it was a bit of dust that got under lens when I took it apart. As for G303 I never bothered to disassemble it since there's nothing to change.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> My G303's sensor starting to die I think. Mouse randomly stops tracking sometimes, like sensor is no longer working. LEDs are ok, cord is ok, mouse is recognized by PC.
> I had this same issue with FK1 but then it was a bit of dust that got under lens when I took it apart. As for G303 I never bothered to disassemble it since there's nothing to change.


You cleaned it already? What exactly is it doing? Are you constantly changing the color of the LEDs or CPI settings? Your not using macros are you?

Maybe you should go to Device Manager, uninstall the USB Input Devices listed under Human Interface Devices section, then Scan For Hardware Changes using the keyboard or plug in the mouse again.

The Mionix software can make the Avior stutter...


----------



## Melan

I've set all the settings once I got my mouse. It's on 400 CPI with static led color, no macros. Don't even remember when I opened LGS last time, probably like week ago or so. Lens are clear and I did uninstall everything under HID section.

I don't run LGS at all unless it's required. Doesn't start with windows either.


----------



## Melan

I tried running FW update but it doesn't let me reflash v16 FW for 303. Says I already have this version or better.

Edit: Weird enough, played with CPI settings, shuffled them around and then reset to default. Fixed my issues, still clueless what that was.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I tried running FW update but it doesn't let me reflash v16 FW for 303. Says I already have this version or better.
> 
> Edit: Weird enough, played with CPI settings, shuffled them around and then reset to default. Fixed my issues, still clueless what that was.


I was having a similar kind of issue with the Avior 7000. When I messed with the CPI settings, after uninstalling the keyboard drivers the mouse installs and the Mionix software, the mouse would mess up if I used the CPI buttons. That's why I asked if you were changing CPI settings.

Some mice mess up when you constantly change LED colours.


----------



## Melan

Well, I only have one CPI step (400) installed since I don't use anything else. Hopefully this doesn't come up again.


----------



## dmbr

How many people had the firmware installation say it was unsuccessful, but then have LGS tell you you have the latest FW when you try to update again?

Had this happen with two 303's.


----------



## popups

I took the G303 out of the box [returning it] to do a few runs against the Avior 7000 to see which design let's me perform best. I can get fast reaction times with the Avior 7000 and I can be consistent, but it requires me to place by finger as far forward as I can, which doesn't allow me to hold the mouse the way I want. Of course I cannot hold the G303 the way I want, regardless, I can get measurably faster reaction times than the Avior 7000 with less effort. I can regularly get 20ms/+ faster times with the G303 than the Avior 7000. The Avior 7000 requires too much technique to get very fast reaction times consistently.

Unfortunately, the Human Benchmark site doesn't count less than 100ms times. I get a couple of 65-98ms clicks in one test run, but they won't be counted. So I have to slow myself down yet try to be fast. that process noticeably increases my reactions.

*Logitech G303 average grouping.*

*Mionix Avior 7000 average grouping.*

*A typical medium speed (for me) reaction using the G303.*


By the way, I only slept ~4 hours before I did those tests. I might be able to get 6th place using this computer after some rest, food and water. It might be possible for me to get 4th or 5th with an optimized setup.


----------



## qsxcv

how the hell do you get 140 with aero on? :O


----------



## Derp

I call hacks.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Yea GL taking my 6th+7th buddy.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> how the hell do you get 140 with aero on? :O


I don't use aero. I use Windows Classic and disabled the theme service.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I call hacks.


I know it's odd to see very similar numbers, especially with the Avior results. When you look at the numbers you can see how I was improving my technique.

On a slow day I get 165ms or 175ms often per click. When I'm a little more focused, or when using a Zowie, I get 155ms. In ideal conditions I get lower times. If I had been using the G303 more than a day I might be able to get down to 115ms if the mouse doesn't kill my hand first.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Yea GL taking my 6th+7th buddy.


I was actually going to get 5th, but I got a 98ms time on my fifth click. Too bad I don't have a CRT anymore.

I don't know how you can be fast without being too fast.

I think 1st and 2nd are using a hardware device to cheat their results.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I doubt anyone can get faster than 110ms without luck or hacks


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I doubt anyone can get faster than 110ms without luck or hacks


I knew a guy back in the CRT days (he was an AWP'er) that could do sub 90 ms consistently.

However this deteriorated as he got older (he was the youngest clanmember back then).

I've also deteriorated from sub 130's to more like sub 200's on average over the years. A good thing that comes with age however: I'm becoming much more devious and accurate as well, just a tad slower.


----------



## Melan

You don't need a hardware device to cheat this junk. Simple color clicker program will work. Not to mention I started getting 50-120ms results after playing for a while, not so hard to get the timing right.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Waiting for people to submit actual scores on the leaderboards instead of "stories" :^)


----------



## popups

The G303's buttons allows me to be very fast. In-game that causes me to shoot very early as I am coming onto target, I blame my long term use of Zowie mice.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The G303's buttons allows me to be very fast. In-game that causes me to shoot very early as I am coming onto target, I blame my long term use of Zowie mice.


Same here.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I had the same issue when I first got a Logitech mouse (G400S) after about 2 years of using Razer's Deathadders (3.5G+2013) I've never tried any Zowie mice but I can only imagine it bring alot worse than Razer's lag.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Out of curiousity has anyone ever made a chart of keyboards and their input latencies?


----------



## qsxcv

lol i said the same thing as popups back in january about the g302's buttons
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1678&start=20#p13071
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I knew a guy back in the CRT days (he was an AWP'er) that could do sub 90 ms consistently.


wat. i thought i was fast for being able to shoot through the gap at doubledoors in d2
if by consistently you mean like get <90ms 50% of the time... that's really hard to believe


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

you only need 160ms provided you are an experienced AWPer with very good muscle memory to shoot someone through the crack between DD on D2.


----------



## the1freeMan

@Melan

Try uninstalling LGS, it gives dpc spikes even when shut down.


----------



## Melan

LGS works fine. DPC latency is always the same within 40us range regardless if it's on/off/uninstalled. Only occasional 70us spikes are fault of nvidia display driver.


----------



## atarii

My g303 has just arrived today. I tried it in cs go for 10 min... I AM TOTALLY IN LOVE. Since i use a mix of fingertip/claw grip and my hand is above the average lenght (more than 20 cm) the shape is not a problem. I was already familiar with the amazing clicks, but the sensor was totally a surprise... SO GOOOOOOOOD (first time i try a 3366







). I have read a lot of comments like that: "i hope ss will release a sensei/xai with a 3310 or a 3366". Are you kidding me? It's such an horrible statement lol. Now that i tried a 3366 i can finally say that: 3310 is JUST GARBAGE. A sensor should always reproduce my hand movement 1:1, the 3310 doesnt. It's a constant fight with the mouse, especially when you try to do little corrections with a medium sensitivity. If you are a top aimer you can only hate the 3310. Dont get me wrong, in fast paced shooters (quake, painkiller, wolfenstein, etc.) where you use your body to aim most of the times, you can deal with it. But in cs i was always some pixel off and not because of me (i had 0 problems with 3090, am010, even avago adns 9500 LOL). There was no way that i could properly slow-aim with the 3310 implementation i tried (rival, fk1, ec2-a). I had to flick always, even when it was unnecessary lol. Why are fnatic so good even with the rival? I think it's because they use low sens. My sens is pretty high (i used to play with [email protected] dpi for 10 years







) compared to the average cs player, in the last months i had 2.5 450 dpi with the ec2 evo but i couldn't use anything higher than [email protected] with any 3310.

So about the g303: the cable is 10 times better than the g302, i don't feel his weight force when i swipe the mouse. The mousefeets adds stability, kudos to logitech. I still don't have words to describe the sensor: after 3 months with the fk1 and 2 with the ec2-a i still had people telling me that i had to get used to the sensor. After 30 sec i was in love with the 3366 xD

Ofc a mouse with the mx300/g1/g3/xai/sensei shape (with sidebuttons) and a 3366 would be an improvement for me, but till the day something like that come out i am pretty sure i'll keep using the g303.


----------



## iceskeleton

^ Can you do constant fast flicks in csgo back to back and see if you don't look at the sky or ground?


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> ^ Can you do constant fast flicks in csgo back to back and see if you don't look at the sky or ground?


i played 30 min on a csgo ffa and i didn't notice any flaw. Anyway i'll play a lot tonight, i'll let you know.
btw my sens is [email protected], 1000hz, 6/11 (anyway i use rawinput, so...).


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> ^ Can you do constant fast flicks in csgo back to back and see if you don't look at the sky or ground?


If I turn off surface calibration yes. If I have it on no.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> LGS works fine. DPC latency is always the same within 40us range regardless if it's on/off/uninstalled. Only occasional 70us spikes are fault of nvidia display driver.


Well then it must be conflicting with something on my rig. I get dpc spikes in the 200μs range with it installed :/


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/0_100 Have you tried following r0ach's guide?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> My g303 has just arrived today. I tried it in cs go for 10 min... I AM TOTALLY IN LOVE. Since i use a mix of fingertip/claw grip and my hand is above the average lenght (more than 20 cm) the shape is not a problem. I was already familiar with the amazing clicks, but the sensor was totally a surprise... SO GOOOOOOOOD (first time i try a 3366
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have read a lot of comments like that: "i hope ss will release a sensei/xai with a 3310 or a 3366". Are you kidding me? It's such an horrible statement lol. Now that i tried a 3366 i can finally say that: 3310 is JUST GARBAGE. A sensor should always reproduce my hand movement 1:1, the 3310 doesnt. It's a constant fight with the mouse, especially when you try to do little corrections with a medium sensitivity. If you are a top aimer you can only hate the 3310. Dont get me wrong, in fast paced shooters (quake, painkiller, wolfenstein, etc.) where you use your body to aim most of the times, you can deal with it. But in cs i was always some pixel off and not because of me (i had 0 problems with 3090, am010, even avago adns 9500 LOL). There was no way that i could properly slow-aim with the 3310 implementation i tried (rival, fk1, ec2-a). I had to flick always, even when it was unnecessary lol. Why are fnatic so good even with the rival? I think it's because they use low sens. My sens is pretty high (i used to play with [email protected] dpi for 10 years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) compared to the average cs player, in the last months i had 2.5 450 dpi with the ec2 evo but i couldn't use anything higher than [email protected] with any 3310.


Although I have only used one 3310 sensor, I agree with what you said. For me, faster movement(flick shots and checking corners) with the 3310 feels great but the slower movement doesn't feel quite right. There's something off about it. My Xornet was better at doing small adjustments but it was terrible when aiming really fast.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> So about the g303: the cable is 10 times better than the g302, i don't feel his weight force when i swipe the mouse. The mousefeets adds stability, kudos to logitech. I still don't have words to describe the sensor: *after 3 months with the fk1 and 2 with the ec2-a i still had people telling me that i had to get used to the sensor.* After 30 sec i was in love with the 3366 xD


I'm actually in my fourth month with my Naos and I feel like I still haven't adapted to it but when I had the G502 I was struggling with the shape and the weight but the sensor was like an 'instant like'.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Well then it must be conflicting with something on my rig. I get dpc spikes in the 200μs range with it installed :/


Are you using DPC Latency checker (dpclat) by any chance?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

What's the lowest you can get for the humanbenchmark test on win8?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> My g303 has just arrived today. I tried it in cs go for 10 min... I AM TOTALLY IN LOVE. Since i use a mix of fingertip/claw grip and my hand is above the average lenght (more than 20 cm) the shape is not a problem. I was already familiar with the amazing clicks, but the sensor was totally a surprise... SO GOOOOOOOOD (first time i try a 3366
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have read a lot of comments like that: "i hope ss will release a sensei/xai with a 3310 or a 3366". Are you kidding me? It's such an horrible statement lol. Now that i tried a 3366 i can finally say that: 3310 is JUST GARBAGE. A sensor should always reproduce my hand movement 1:1, the 3310 doesnt. It's a constant fight with the mouse, especially when you try to do little corrections with a medium sensitivity. If you are a top aimer you can only hate the 3310. Dont get me wrong, in fast paced shooters (quake, painkiller, wolfenstein, etc.) where you use your body to aim most of the times, you can deal with it. But in cs i was always some pixel off and not because of me (i had 0 problems with 3090, am010, even avago adns 9500 LOL). There was no way that i could properly slow-aim with the 3310 implementation i tried (rival, fk1, ec2-a). I had to flick always, even when it was unnecessary lol. Why are fnatic so good even with the rival? I think it's because they use low sens. My sens is pretty high (i used to play with [email protected] dpi for 10 years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) compared to the average cs player, in the last months i had 2.5 450 dpi with the ec2 evo but i couldn't use anything higher than [email protected] with any 3310.
> 
> So about the g303: the cable is 10 times better than the g302, i don't feel his weight force when i swipe the mouse. The mousefeets adds stability, kudos to logitech. I still don't have words to describe the sensor: after 3 months with the fk1 and 2 with the ec2-a i still had people telling me that i had to get used to the sensor. After 30 sec i was in love with the 3366 xD
> 
> Ofc a mouse with the mx300/g1/g3/xai/sensei shape (with sidebuttons) and a 3366 would be an improvement for me, but till the day something like that come out i am pretty sure i'll keep using the g303.


I agree that you shouldn't have to "get used to" a sensor. But you can't directly compare sensors like you did with the 3310 and 3366. Each mouse with the 3310 performs very differently from each other, and there is even variance from say one FK1 to another.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Never tried it on Windows 8. I don't have that OS


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1433882/gaming-and-mouse-response-bios-optimization-guide-for-modern-pc-hardware/0_100 Have you tried following r0ach's guide?


Hasn't every one of those "optimizations" been debunked?


----------



## qsxcv

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I believe r0ach is correct to some extent.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I believe r0ach is correct to some extent.


Abou what exactly?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Lets not turn this thread into that same discussion. You can try r0aches tweaks for yourself and use programs like LatencyMon and mousetester mouse hz graphs to monitor changes. But generally his thread should be taken as possible variables to test, rather than proven facts, especially since every PC/motherboard is going to have different results.


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> ^ Can you do constant fast flicks in csgo back to back and see if you don't look at the sky or ground?


i played a lot tonight, never happened, either with calibration on or off. I like it on, since my lift off now is considerably lower








the sensor is mindblowing, i am now using [email protected]


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> i played a lot tonight, never happened, either with calibration on or off. I like it on, since my lift off now is considerably lower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sensor is mindblowing, i am now using [email protected]


Nice to hear!


----------



## dmbr

Sigh. I'd really like a firmware update solving the surface tuning bug. I got stuck with the problem with 5 mice in a row.


----------



## Melan

Can't you ask for a refund if several RMAs didn't solve the problem?


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Can't you ask for a refund if several RMAs didn't solve the problem?


I otherwise love the mouse, and losing 1mm of LOD isn't a deal-breaker for me...just irritating.


----------



## Melan

I'm thinking about selling my G303, but I'm pretty damn sure no one buys that stuff.


----------



## SightUp

Has anyone does any mods for it yet where it doesn't destroy the look of the mouse or maybe put the mouse guts into another mouse with a better shape?


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> i played a lot tonight, never happened, either with calibration on or off. I like it on, since my lift off now is considerably lower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sensor is mindblowing, i am now using [email protected]


Yeah this sensor is divine, isn't it?
The last good sensor before this one was the 3G deathadder sensor, but oh god, the liftoff distance....(I mean it was 1 CD on my aluminum Razer ExactMat, but...on cloth pads?....)

The MLT04 was awesome and it actually worked correctly in windows 98 (8 bit data path).
Deathadder and Diamondback were garbage in windows 98. DA and DB used 16 bit data path which 98 didn't support, and they fell back to the 8 bit data path, which lowered the malfunction speed to the same level as the MLT04's PREDECESSOR (the intellimouse optical 1.0/1.1, which was unusuable in games due to the horribly low malfunction speed)... TBH I actually forgot if the Diamondback was affected by this. The DA Sure was, though. Funny that the 3366 works flawlessly in 98 (at least up to 3.5 m/s, didn't test higher).


----------



## nittwit

Omgaash 3366 best sansar ivar ploxploxbuiirtt so gud, itwillmakeuplay lykpro

It's so funny to see all this people buying mouse after mouse because of its sensor, but they still play like **** and their hands cramps horribly after 1 minute.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Omgaash 3366 best sansar ivar ploxploxbuiirtt so gud, itwillmakeuplay lykpro
> 
> It's so funny to see all this people buying mouse after mouse because of its sensor, but they still play like **** and their hands cramps horribly after 1 minute.


Naww... They play better and better every mouse they buy.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Omgaash 3366 best sansar ivar ploxploxbuiirtt so gud, itwillmakeuplay lykpro
> 
> It's so funny to see all this people buying mouse after mouse because of its sensor, but they still play like **** and their hands cramps horribly after 1 minute.


I dont love the shape but the only mouse that's really caused my hands to feel uncomfortable was the Zowie FK2. My hands are 20/21 cm and I can play for hours still with the g303 without any issues. I don't love the shape. I don't love the sharp edges but it definitely doesn't cause me any pain.


----------



## Melan

Same, even tho my hand is 19cm. Only reason I want to sell G303 is to try something else. Maybe retry deathadder chroma because last one died within 1 day.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Omgaash 3366 best sansar ivar ploxploxbuiirtt so gud, itwillmakeuplay lykpro
> 
> It's so funny to see all this people buying mouse after mouse because of its sensor, but they still play like **** and their hands cramps horribly after 1 minute.


Going from a Razer DA 2013 to a Logitech G303 is a decision I have yet to regret.


----------



## dmbr

Putting "Mouse Blisters" on the front right side of the mouse pretty much resolved any comfort issues I had. They don't stick so well, but if you can get them to stay put these might make the mouse usable to many more people.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://www.amazon.com/Durable-Self-Adhesive-Anti-Slip-Non-slip-Protectors/dp/B00O8NO240 Do you guys think this will work well?


----------



## Rifleman007

I use electrical tape on spots where my hands touch except the right and left clicks. Perfect.


----------



## mg7l0k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rifleman007*
> 
> I use electrical tape on spots where my hands touch except the right and left clicks. Perfect.


Snapshot can see?


----------



## exitone

i love these butthurt people who are probably trying to palm the g303 yet complaining about shape.


----------



## Brightmist

Palm-grippers tend to palm everything and qq when they can't.

G303 surely isn't a palmgrip mouse as the shape will force you to a clawgrip.

The shape is also superior to most mice out there, I highly suggest any non-palm grippers to try it.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Palm-grippers tend to palm everything and qq when they can't.
> 
> G303 surely isn't a palmgrip mouse as the shape will force you to a clawgrip.
> 
> The shape also has awesome design, I highly suggest any non-palm grippers to try it.


Yep, the g303 shape is actually pretty nice if you actually do it correctly (which a lot of people don't)


----------



## povohat

I think it palms fairly well if you offset the mouse a bit counterclockwise, so the back left angle goes into the base of your palm. My non-palm grip deals with the G302 just fine. Would be awesome to be able to get my hands on a G303 though


----------



## bigtastie

I pulled the trigger and bought the G303 used. I will be getting it monday or tuesday. It's pretty expensive here in Denmark, but I got it for about 40 $, which is about half price excluding shipping. I've only had my new G100s for about two months, where there are somethings I like and don't like. All around I like it, but I would like:

* Side buttons (!). Seriously, being without after so many years is a pain in the ass.
* Better buttons (have tweaked the ones on the G100s and they still feel dull incomparision to my old IMO 1.1). But it seems that both the G302 and G303 are some of the best buttons - or am I mistaken?
* A bigger tail. The G100s is too flat for my preference.

The shape of the G303 have been holding me back, but looking at how I actually hold my G100s the G303 seem like it would be perfect for me. I am looking forward to trying it.


----------



## Brightmist

G303 buttons are heaven.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> i love these butthurt people who are probably trying to palm the g303 yet complaining about shape.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Palm-grippers tend to palm everything and qq when they can't.
> 
> G303 surely isn't a palmgrip mouse as the shape will force you to a clawgrip.
> 
> The shape is also superior to most mice out there, I highly suggest any non-palm grippers to try it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Yep, the g303 shape is actually pretty nice if you actually do it correctly (which a lot of people don't)


The G302/3 is an ergonomic design that is symmetrical, but has no right side buttons, so it isn't ambidextrous? Therefore, I was just holding it wrong. Well, that explains everything.

I wonder just how accurate you guys are with the G303 holding it the way you do. It would be cool to see your statistical accuracy for FPS games.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Anyone knows where we can get replacement feet for the G303?


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The G302/3 is an ergonomic design that is symmetrical, but has no right side buttons, so it isn't ambidextrous? Therefore, I was just holding it wrong. Well, that explains everything.
> 
> I wonder just how accurate you guys are with the G303 holding it the way you do. It would be cool to see your statistical accuracy for FPS games.


With my own gameplay I've noticed that I can be more precise with the g303 but I can track things and control recoil better with my zowie mice. I change mice all the time and wouldn't be able to ever extract any information from the past at this point, but I can say that I notice it across different games as well. I just installed CSGO a few weeks ago so pretty new to that, but I can join a deathmatch server and easily notice a difference between how many kills are spray kills with my zowie and tap headshots with the g303. I'm not trying to say anything about either of the mice really just that in my own personal case I can tap precisely and usually faster with the g303 and I can swipe and move the zowie mice more consistently.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I wonder just how accurate you guys are with the G303 holding it the way you do. It would be cool to see your statistical accuracy for FPS games.


That number wouldn't mean anything as it's directly proportional to the amount of time played.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Anyone knows where we can get replacement feet for the G303?


You can buy Hotline feet for G302 from Takasta. It has no side feet but the rest is identical to 303.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You can buy Hotline feet for G302 from Takasta. It has no side feet but the rest is identical to 303.


But then wouldn't that cause even more problems? Eventually I'd have to remove the side ones and I would have the same wobble issues of the 302.

I should mention that I removed the sensor feet because the glide is better that way.


----------



## Melan

You don't have to remove side feet. Replace only top and bottom ones. They don't wear out that fast and if you're so worried buy a PTFE sheet (Takasta sells that too) and cut your own mouse feet.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> That number wouldn't mean anything as it's directly proportional to the amount of time played.


Here's a test: Do 500 lightning gun or rail gun frags each in Quake Live with the G303 and another mouse (I'd like to see a Zowie with 3310) and then give us the percentages.


----------



## Melan

Been there, done that. My rail accuracy is crappy 55-60% on both 303 and FK1, even on MX500.

Edit: And that's on a good day which are rare as unicorns.


----------



## povohat

If you are playing with the goal of having a high accuracy, you can easily get inflated numbers.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> With my own gameplay I've noticed that I can be more precise with the g303 but *I can track things and control recoil better with my zowie mice*. I change mice all the time and wouldn't be able to ever extract any information from the past at this point, but I can say that I notice it across different games as well. I just installed CSGO a few weeks ago so pretty new to that, but I can join a deathmatch server and easily notice a difference between how many kills are spray kills with my zowie and tap headshots with the g303. I'm not trying to say anything about either of the mice really just that in my own personal case I can tap precisely and usually faster with the g303 and I can swipe and move the zowie mice *more consistently*.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> That number wouldn't mean anything as it's directly proportional to the amount of time played.


That was my point about the shape of the G302/3. The shape makes it harder to be consistent with your movements. The grip it forces you to use isn't the most precise for a lot of people (if not the majority).

When I gripped the G303 the way it forces me to use it, I wasn't as good at landing flick shots, I was off most of the time because I didn't have a firm grip on the mouse. When I gripped the mouse firmly, to remove the "play" between the mouse and my hand, I was landing shots just like every other mouse I ever used. However, gripping it firmly hurt my hand after an hour, I had to stop playing for 2 days.

If I don't want to be injured by the G303 I will use a relaxed grip, such a grip would sacrifice my precision when flicking to targets, which isn't ideal in CS. If I want precision, I have to hurt my hand to get it.

That's why I would like to hear just how accurate the people who like the G302/3 are when using the mouse. I have a feeling that a lot of the people who like the shape are not very accurate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> If you are playing with the goal of having a high accuracy, you can easily get inflated numbers.


When it comes to CS I always play with the intent of hitting every single shot I fire. The more accurate I can be the faster the opponent will die. In CS I could fire 3 rounds quickly to hit 1-2 head shots, the speed I could do that was faster than someone could spray at the body. In GO I carry over a similar mindset. It's not the only technique I use -- it's a matter of the time to kill that dictates.


----------



## Mizmo

bought the G303 a week ago. still don't know what to think about the shape. And I don't really like the side buttons either, only the bigger one is easily clickable.
I'll probably switch back to Kana v2


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> still don't know what to think about the shape.


Probably what the average user thinks: Bad on average, unless you're the rare person were it just "fits".

It's rage inducing because everything else is so spot on :x

One handy thing about BF4 is the statistics. My AR accuracy goes up 1 to 2 percent consistently with the G303, but my survivability doesn't. Like I said, an uncomfortable mouse can indirectly affect your movement making you feel like a drunken warrior.

Also noteworthy is that I can (even after a month) tell apart in shadowplay footage whether I'm using a G303 or not (my tracking of enemies & bursting is just far superior). Imo this mouse is in every aspect except shape superior to the average 3310 out there.


----------



## iceskeleton

I play fine with the g302, my flicks (CSGO) have been quite accurate in recent weeks too. Some of TSM use the g303 and they have been in good form recently.

With regard to the discomfort, I will say that with playing FFA DM for ~1.5 hours straight can cause it for me. But I am fine with playing competitive matches back-to-back.


----------



## donutvampire

Just came here to give an update on the my thoughts on the mouse. I love it. Best mouse I have ever used. The sensor is amazing I have never used a sensor that felt this good. The shape is perfect for high level cs players. It allows for quick movements with ease. I have had no problems with the cord. Also the m1 and m2 buttons feel so satisfying to click, best button switches I have experienced. My only issue with the mouse is the scroll wheel, for some reason they changed the wheel when the updated the g302 to the g303. The g302 mouse wheel felt very tactile and when clicking with it it never scrolled up or down if you pushed it right. I find when using the g303 if I don't click it perfectly straight on it will spin and click. Only a small problem overall an amazing mouse.









I just skimmed this last page of this thread and I cant help but laugh to see the same people in here that were here a month ago when it was first released just hating on the mouse. How can you say the shape causes the mouse to be inaccurate and treat it as a fact? The shape is meant to blend into the palm of your hand and it is small enough to claw grip if you wish, why don't you try it before you spew bullcrap on forums causing people to get the wrong idea of a mouse. Also, I think TSM is doing just fine with the mouse, 2-0'ed fnatic and won the faceit league stage 1 finals







(* not saying the mouse makes the team or anything







*)


----------



## qsxcv

scroll wheel was the same on my g302 and g303 so maybe you just got unlucky


----------



## omnislash63

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's why I would like to hear just how accurate the people who like the G302/3 are when using the mouse. I have a feeling that a lot of the people who like the shape are not very accurate.
> When it comes to CS I always play with the intent of hitting every single shot I fire. The more accurate I can be the faster the opponent will die. In CS I could fire 3 rounds quickly to hit 1-2 head shots, the speed I could do that was faster than someone could spray at the body. In GO I carry over a similar mindset. It's not the only technique I use -- it's a matter of the time to kill that dictates.


You didn't understand what he meant, you can get inflated number if you are only firing easy shots, for example on quake if i'm playing ffa when i get the rail gun I'm gonna try to land each shot and take my time so it is really often i can get 70/80 % accuracy on one game where it's nowhere near my average in Clan Arena where i'm firing whenever i can (even very hard shot).

I'm playing only PQL Vampiric Clan Arena and i get 45/55 % average with rail gun with my abyssus which i can grab perfectly.

With the g303 it's more about 50/60 % and i'm not gripping this mouse perfectly. It's more handicapping with rocket jump (very important in this mode) or when doing a lot of violent movement. I don't think the sensor have a big impact in term of accuracy it's more about shape, weight balance etc...

If you are no hitting your shots it's mostly because the mouse doesn't fit you but it's gonna be different for every user because nobody has the same grip nor the same hand.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Have anyone tried sticking grip tape on a mouse before?


----------



## Germ1

G303 brand new in box for sale in LA county, AV.


----------



## bigtastie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Have anyone tried sticking grip tape on a mouse before?


Yes. On both the IMO 1.1 and G100s. It's much grippier


----------



## Z Overlord

What is the native cpi of this mouse? Does it offer native 800?


----------



## Melan

All native. From 200 up to 12000 in steps of 50.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> What is the native cpi of this mouse? Does it offer native 800?


The array size was not posted officially, AFAIK, so we cannot be sure until someone with inside knowledge posts, but it should perform well at 800 CPI, and technically, all offered CPI settings are "native" and should be "smoothing" free.

What does Logitech call "smoothing", is it "filtering"?


----------



## qsxcv

does anyone know the "native" dpi, in the sense that moving the mouse so that the image captured by the sensor is displaced exactly 1 pixel gives a response of 1 pixel to the computer?


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> does anyone know the "native" dpi, in the sense that moving the mouse so that the image captured by the sensor is displaced exactly 1 pixel gives a response of 1 pixel to the computer?


Any dpi should be good. If i were u, i'd use something like 5000dpi/3000dpi and low sensitivity in game.


----------



## Kermit879

I stippled my g303 on the sides using a Sautering(sp?) iron to give it some grip, very happy with results. Excuse the probable foot particles that have gotten into the grooves but I do clean it.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Any dpi should be good. If i were u, i'd use something like 5000dpi/3000dpi and low sensitivity in game.


i didn't ask because i'm not sure which dpi to use... just curious


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I used gauze tape on mine. I rather not void my warranty if I could avoid it. It works fairly well so far.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> I stippled my g303 on the sides using a Sautering(sp?) iron to give it some grip, very happy with results. Excuse the probable foot particles that have gotten into the grooves but I do clean it.


That's so disgusting, it almost makes me throw up.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> does anyone know the "native" dpi, in the sense that moving the mouse so that the image captured by the sensor is displaced exactly 1 pixel gives a response of 1 pixel to the computer?


Every Avago 3366's step is supposed to be native, even 12000 dpi, so every step should "feel" the same. And it's better to use higher dpi and lower sens in-game.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Any dpi should be good. If i were u, i'd use something like 5000dpi/3000dpi and low sensitivity in game.


That is not correct...

Mousetester graphs have shown that the 3366 performs differently on different DPI steps. And from what I've heard, even Logitech employees have been recommending people to use the lowest DPI that's comfortable.

Higher DPI is NOT better. 



 - http://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/#page-1 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2200_50#post_23788490


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> And it's better to use higher dpi and lower sens in-game.


It is not better to use higher dpi and lower sens in game...


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That is not correct...
> 
> Mousetester graphs have shown that the 3366 performs differently on different DPI steps. And from what I've heard, even Logitech employees have been recommending people to use the lowest DPI that's comfortable.
> 
> Higher DPI is NOT better.
> 
> 
> 
> - http://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/#page-1 - http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2200_50#post_23788490


Neither is using a very low dpi like 400 dpi and a very high sens like 4 in-game, it'll skip pixels.

I use 1800 dpi with every mouse i have.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> It is not better to use higher dpi and lower sens in game...


Try to use a very low dpi; like 400 dpi and a high sens in ANY game, and it'll skip pixels. You can even try it with CS 1.6/Source/GO by using a higher sens than 3.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2h4gts/is_it_bad_if_if_my_sensitivity_is_over_4/

I play with 7inch/360 and if i use something like 450 dpi and 5.2 sensitivity in-game, it'll skip pixels like crazy.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Higher DPI is NOT better.


Neither are one liners like that.

In theory a higher dpi and a lower ingame sens should be better... BUT, the downside is that as DPI increases, sensor performance degrades.

(this is assuming a correctly working rawinput btw)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/*
> Because sensor DPI increases often come from subdividing those pixels into smaller and smaller increments. This is also where higher DPIs can be bad news.


Atm we're at a point where the range of 400 to 1600 is pretty equal in performance but beyond that it still becomes noticeable. It's up to the user to find a good balance between precision and sensor performance.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Try to use a very low dpi; like 400 dpi and a high sens in ANY game, and it'll skip pixels. You can even try it with CS 1.6/Source/GO by using a higher sens than 3.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2h4gts/is_it_bad_if_if_my_sensitivity_is_over_4/
> 
> I play with 7inch/360 and if i use something like 450 dpi and 5.2 sensitivity in-game, it'll skip pixels like crazy.


a high sensitivity will skip pixels, a low dpi does not cause skipped pixels.. A medium or low sensitivity with a DPI below 2000 is ideal. I think people typically think an in game sensitivity of around 2-2.6 in counter stike (will be different in other games) is ideal. When you say high dpi, many people aren't going to think 1800 dpi, but more like 5,000 or 8,000 dpi.

You want to avoid high in game sensitivities and you want to avoid high dpi. Low DPI is good


----------



## LegoFarmer

Yeah, I used to use 1600 DPI and low ingame sens, now I use 400 DPI. I felt the difference in both my G502 and some 3310 mice. Even if it has native steps, I'm staying low.


----------



## Melan

I can't control my cursor at all over 400 CPI even when using 2 monitors. 800 already feels stupidly high.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

2010: 3500 dpi
2012: 1800 dpi
2013: 1700 dpi
2014: 1250, 1000, 1040 dpi
Now: 400 dpi


----------



## popups

Got a refund on the G303.







Time for either a Castor or ZA11.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> I stippled my g303 on the sides using a Sautering(sp?) iron to give it some grip, very happy with results. Excuse the probable foot particles that have gotten into the grooves but I do clean it.


I didn't have any issues with the grip from the textured plastic. It would have been nice if it was a little more aggressive, but it wasn't absolutely necessary.


----------



## Kermit879

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Got a refund on the G303.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time for either a Castor or ZA11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have any issues with the grip from the textured plastic. It would have been nice if it was a little more aggressive, but it wasn't absolutely necessary.


It was for me, it got slippery.


----------



## Brightmist

I also think more agressive textures like X5 would've been better for the sides.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's why I would like to hear just how accurate the people who like the G302/3 are when using the mouse. I have a feeling that a lot of the people who like the shape are not very accurate.


I get 83 % on training_aim_csgo2, 128 ticks, Friberg settings (0.25 delay, 0.5 duration, amount 100), from distance 2, strafe shooting.
Beat my record of 82% with the g400.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I can't control my cursor at all over 400 CPI even when using 2 monitors. 800 already feels stupidly high.


Then the shape of the mouse isn't for you.

What's the size of your hands and how do you grab your mouse? I might help you, i've bought 23 mice to this day.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Then the shape of the mouse isn't for you.
> 
> What's the size of your hands and how do you grab your mouse? I might help you, i've bought 23 mice to this day.


List?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Then the shape of the mouse isn't for you.
> 
> What's the size of your hands and how do you grab your mouse? I might help you, i've bought 23 mice to this day.


A lot of people just can't be arsed to try to target single pixels at 4000 DPI or something like that. It's super easy to target anything you want at 400 DPI. Instead of practicing to improve control with high DPI, with the low DPI you try moving your hand and arm faster. Doing it like this especially helps to avoid mistakes when the adrenaline is flowing and you can't keep calm in a serious match.

(note: if it's about FPS games instead of Dota etc., translate high/low dpi into high/low sens)


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> A lot of people just can't be arsed to try to target single pixels at 4000 DPI or something like that. It's super easy to target anything you want at 400 DPI. Instead of practicing to improve control with high DPI, with the low DPI you try moving your hand and arm faster. Doing it like this especially helps to avoid mistakes when the adrenaline is flowing and you can't keep calm in a serious match.
> 
> (note: if it's about FPS games instead of Dota etc., translate high/low dpi into high/low sens)


Lolwut. Did you quote the wrong post?

Anyway, if you said it because of this:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Neither is using a very low dpi like 400 dpi and a very high sens like 4 in-game, it'll skip pixels.
> 
> I use 1800 dpi with every mouse i have.


And this:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Try to use a very low dpi; like 400 dpi and a high sens in ANY game, and it'll skip pixels. You can even try it with CS 1.6/Source/GO by using a higher sens than 3.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/2h4gts/is_it_bad_if_if_my_sensitivity_is_over_4/
> 
> I play with 7inch/360 and if i use something like 450 dpi and 5.2 sensitivity in-game, it'll skip pixels like crazy.


I said High DPI and low sensitivity in-game, if you use high sensitivies in games. Let's say you play with a sens of 11.6inch/360 with 400 dpi and a sens in-game of (CS:GO, per say) 3.5. It'd be better to just use 1800 DPI (in my case) and a sensitivity in-game of 0.78. Any sensitivity lower than 3 in-game should be good.

So stop with this butthurtness.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Lolwut. Did you quote the wrong post?


I meant you! I thought it isn't clear to you that other people use their mouse completely different than you do.

You wanted to help someone that says he can't control the cursor if the mouse is set to higher than 400 DPI. This is about the mouse pointer on the desktop and for LoL, Dota2, etc. It seems you don't get that this is normal for a lot of people, and that people actually like to use low DPI for easy control of the mouse cursor.

Then about sensitivity in an FPS game... what you are doing there with your sens is also not how a lot of people play. You mentioned your sens in some other post somewhere, and I remember it was a very high sens. Other people play completely different from you, use for example something like 20inch (50cm) for 360 degree turns. When you play like that, there's absolutely no problem with low DPI. The crosshair won't skip over pixels in the game even with a 400 DPI setting for the mouse.

This all fits together perfectly for everyone. If you like low DPI for controlling a mouse pointer, you probably also like low sens in an FPS game, and there's naturally no problem. The people that want high sens in an FPS game probably are the ones that like high DPI for a mouse pointer, so they'll also naturally avoid the pixel skipping problem.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I meant you! I thought it isn't clear to you that other people use their mouse completely different than you do.
> 
> You wanted to help someone that says he can't control the cursor if the mouse is set to higher than 400 DPI. This is about the mouse pointer on the desktop and for LoL, Dota2, etc. It seems you don't get that this is normal for a lot of people, and that people actually like to use low DPI for easy control of the mouse cursor.
> 
> Then about sensitivity in an FPS game... what you are doing there with your sens is also not how a lot of people play. You mentioned your sens in some other post somewhere, and I remember it was a very high sens. Other people play completely different from you, use for example something like 20inch (50cm) for 360 degree turns. When you play like that, there's absolutely no problem with low DPI. The crosshair won't skip over pixels in the game even with a 400 DPI setting for the mouse.
> 
> This all fits together perfectly for everyone. If you like low DPI for controlling a mouse pointer, you probably also like low sens in an FPS game, and there's naturally no problem. The people that want high sens in an FPS game probably are the ones that like high DPI for a mouse pointer, so they'll also naturally avoid the pixel skipping problem.


Learn to read.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I can't control my cursor at all over 400 CPI even when using 2 monitors. 800 already feels stupidly high.


*Then the shape of the mouse isn't for you.

What's the size of your hands and how do you grab your mouse? I might help you, i've bought 23 mice to this day.*


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> All native. From 200 up to 12000 in steps of 50.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The array size was not posted officially, AFAIK, so we cannot be sure until someone with inside knowledge posts, but it should perform well at 800 CPI, and technically, all offered CPI settings are "native" and should be "smoothing" free.
> 
> What does Logitech call "smoothing", is it "filtering"?


I have never heard of a mouse doing this until now, that is hard to swallow. Is there any proof of this? Does the competitive gaming community (ie: not Battlefield or CoD players) agree to this?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Learn to read.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I can't control my cursor at all over 400 CPI even when using 2 monitors. 800 already feels stupidly high.
> 
> 
> 
> *Then the shape of the mouse isn't for you.
> 
> What's the size of your hands and how do you grab your mouse? I might help you, i've bought 23 mice to this day.*
Click to expand...

Yes! What you don't get is that it's completely normal to like 400 DPI or 800 DPI or something like that. It's normal that for example 1800 DPI is hard to use for people on the desktop. It's not a wrong shape or anything. It's just how some people like to use their mouse, by moving their hand and arm around a lot.


----------



## JustinSane

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> I stippled my g303 on the sides using a Sautering(sp?) iron to give it some grip, very happy with results. Excuse the probable foot particles that have gotten into the grooves but I do clean it.






Looking at this is giving me that weird Trypophobic feeling like looking at lotus pods.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Yes! What you don't get is that it's completely normal to like 400 DPI or 800 DPI or something like that. It's normal that for example 1800 DPI is hard to use for people on the desktop. It's not a wrong shape or anything. It's just how some people like to use their mouse, by moving their hand and arm around a lot.


Yeah, sorry. I though he said he can't control his mouse using 400 DPI, even when using 2 monitors (?) with the g303 because of the dot "I can't control my cursor at all over 400 CPI even when using 2 monitors*.*800 already feels stupidly high."


----------



## pinobot

Last games i played i stared at the ceiling about 4 times in an hour.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Last games i played i stared at the ceiling about 4 times in an hour.


Turn off surface tuning


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I have never heard of a mouse doing this until now, that is hard to swallow. Is there any proof of this? Does the competitive gaming community (ie: not Battlefield or CoD players) agree to this?


This has been a fact since the 3310 sensor was released.
Does the 3988 count as having all settings as "native"? The 6,400 setting was the only "native" setting from what I read, but it still performs well depending on the applicable CPI chosen. I'm not sure that it could get its full tracking speed at say 6,400 CPI versus 800, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Leopardi

Yeah I'm giving up on this mouse. Getting this annoying thumb twitching for 2 days now because of the shape... there's just no way to get a firm grip of the damn thing with the thumb.


----------



## Zorgon

Shape is a little weird, but I think it just takes some getting used to. I'm not exactly sure what kind of grip I use, but after a few days it feels almost as natural as my g9x of 2+ years. I just have to extend my index and middle fingers a bit further due to the length of the mouse.

g9x


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







g303


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Can someone explain to me or link a thread about why CounterStrike players insist on 400dpi + sensitivity slider, is it because they're used to the WMO/Intellimouse? I come from an RTS/Moba game background and my school of thought has always been disable in game sensitivity (or set to 50), raw mouse input (if available), 6/11 windows slider and change dpi to comfort.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zorgon*
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what kind of grip I use,


That's a fingertip hybrid, fingertip grip with a claw-like hold or clawtip grip for short.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zorgon*
> 
> Can someone explain to me or link a thread about why CounterStrike players insist on 400dpi + sensitivity slider, is it because they're used to the WMO/Intellimouse? I come from an RTS/Moba game background and my school of thought has always been disable in game sensitivity (or set to 50), raw mouse input (if available), 6/11 windows slider and change dpi to comfort.


So in a moba/rts, your cursor works like it does on the desktop, so disabling in game sensitivity, leaves it the most "raw".

In a FPS, you are in the middle of a sphere, and your sensitivity determines how many degrees or radians you turn for every count of movement. Your mouse stops working like it does on the desktop, there is no default thats identical to your desktop movement. As for schools of thoughts for low DPI:

The first is really simple, most mice perform best on lower DPIs. Mice have low physical resolutions, and they split pixels and lose accuracy when set to higher resolutions. Mice don't track flawlessly even at 400 dpi, you really want to split pixels and give them a fraction of the data to work with per count?

Another school of thought is that every count of movement has a margin for error, so you want to minimize the margins for error by minimizing the number of counts measured. So if a target is 20 degrees to your right, how do you minimize the number of counts to move your crosshair there? You do that with a high in game sensitivity which increases the distance you move per count and you preserve a normal distance per 360 of mouse movement by using a low DPI with that high in game sensitivity. Its like baking, if a recipe calls for 2 cups of flour, using a measuring cup is more accurate then using a teaspoon. Despite the teaspoon being a smaller unit of measurement. As long as the unit of measurement is small enough to be able to be a factor of what you're aiming for, the larger the unit the better. Using a sensitivity that is too high would be like using a quart to measure out 2 cups of flour.

The third school of thought that i'm aware of would be that low dpi is easier to reproduce and reproducibility is more important than being able to aim at slightly smaller targets. If you are at 400 dpi, its going to be easy to purposely move around 200 counts to the right, then if you are at 4000 dpi, trying to move 2,000 counts, at 1/10 the sensitivity because there would be 10 times the variations. At 400, trying to move 200 counts sometimes it will be 198, 199, 201, or 202, but thats still going to be much more consistent then at 4,000, where the target might be 2,000 counts and it would be 1,980; 1,981; 1982; 1,983; 1,984; 1,985; 1,986 and so on until 2020, its going to be 10 times the number of different outcomes with a DPI that is 10 times as high. Because the player has the same margin for error in distance regardless of the dpi they use, the lower the DPI, the less the variation in the results.


----------



## Melan

This mouse gets insanely slippery on the sides after 1 hour of play. I have to wipe it with alcohol every time now so I can actually grip it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> This mouse gets insanely slippery on the sides after 1 hour of play. I have to wipe it with alcohol every time now so I can actually grip it.


Yea I feel like Logitech should have implemented rubber side grips like how Razer did for the DA 2013/Taipan/Abyssus 2014


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Yea I feel like Logitech should have inplemented rubber side grips like how Razer did for the DA 2013/Taipan/Abyssus 2014


I would have hated that.

I like how they went about it. Just make the plastic slightly more aggressive.


----------



## Melan

I even tried sticking rubber tape on the sides which didn't help. Tried artisan teppeki but it doesn't stick for too long, grip isn't stellar either. I'm not going to sticking anything else on it (like fabric) because it will look ugly and I don't want that either. I could try sandpaper but warranty for my fingers expired about 20ish years ago.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im going to buy Mouse Blister for mine. I'll probably use a strong adhesive on it once I figure out what feels nice for me.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I would have hated that.
> 
> I like how they went about it. Just make the plastic slightly more aggressive.


yeah, could of been a little more aggressive, its not bad. Nowhere near as rage inducing as my DA 3.5g days.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> yeah, could of been a little more aggressive, its not bad. Nowhere near as rage inducing as my DA 3.5g days.


The days of Razer's craplastic...


----------



## Z Overlord

Is there any place that has the G303 on display? I wanna feel it first.

Also does 1000Hz work just as well as 500Hz?


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Is there any place that has the G303 on display? I wanna feel it first.
> 
> Also does 1000Hz work just as well as 500Hz?


My local staples had all the logitech line on display.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Does anyone having "sticky" mouse feet on their G303?


----------



## revoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Is there any place that has the G303 on display? I wanna feel it first.
> 
> Also does 1000Hz work just as well as 500Hz?


My local Best Buy had it no display. In fact I picked one up today after trying it out in-store.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Also does 1000Hz work just as well as 500Hz?


yes


----------



## bigtastie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> This mouse gets insanely slippery on the sides after 1 hour of play. I have to wipe it with alcohol every time now so I can actually grip it.


I put some grip tape on mine. It works very good and it's very grippy. A roll of 10 m costs like 2$ in a tool & hardware store.


----------



## Melan

I guess time to visit local hardware store then. 3M grip tape might fix my issues.

I started having other issues with 303. Mouse randomly disconnects from PC and only way to make it work is to unplug it and plug it back. Happens randomly and everywhere even on my macbook air. Cord seems intact except minor damage to braided layer which was there when I bought the mouse from logitech.


----------



## Melan

Ffs I can't even log in into logitech.com anymore. What is wrong with their site? Why I have to request password change all the time to log in once?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Are there any good premade third party replacement skates for the G303 yet?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

When I say high sensitivity I mean 800 or higher. 1200 is typically the maximum useable sensitivity you can get to on 1920x1080 without detrimentally affecting how fast you can make precise movements. And that's assuming the best mouse on the market is being used.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2200_50#post_23788490 - This study showed what the vast majority of high-level competitive gamers already know: Hand movement accuracy declines with higher DPI settings. The maximum controllable resolution for the majority of people was 200-400dpi

@nittwit the advantages of higher DPI + lower ingame sens are mostly theoretic, and very hard to notice. There are people who notice improvements when doing the opposite. And I was corrected here for calling it "pixel skipping": http://www.overclock.net/t/1545382/csgo-m-rawinput-0-drops-samples/150_50#post_23717895

Some of the best counter-strike aimers in the world use 400dpi and ~3.6 sensitivity.


----------



## L4dd

This is a bit off topic for the G303, but I use one and want to know the highest in-game sensitivities we could use to not incur "pixel skipping" with certain resolutions and fields of view.


----------



## aayman_farzand

For those of you with Mouse bungees and still find the cable annoying, trying flipping around the bungee so that the cord moves up from the tip and then down. If you like it, then close the loop with tape so that it doesn't pop out during fast swipes.

So much better that way, don't feel the cable tension anymore.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Are there any good premade third party replacement skates for the G303 yet?


Yup.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Yup.


That single piece of hair on the sensor, I always check for those before a game


----------



## dlano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Yup.


I hope that isn't your mouse, all that dust and crap on it makes it look like you use a cat for a mousepad


----------



## jaffa2843

Have you ever seen a photo of anything? The dust and dirt is more pronounced on any photo. Btw i clean it regularly, so shut up.









Hope you enjoy the crappy stock feet peasants.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> This is a bit off topic for the G303, but I use one and want to know the highest in-game sensitivities we could use to not incur "pixel skipping" with certain resolutions and fields of view.


Somewhere above 2.6 or 2.7 in CSGO for 1080p.

But tbh an aspect alot of people forget is that alot of CSGO players don't use 1080p but other resolutions. Back when I still played it alot I used 720p as well.


----------



## detto87

Well, I only find replacement feet for G302 which alywas misses the side feet for anti-wobble.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00SBX2XGC/ref=mw_dp_mdsc?dsc=1&qid=1431134165&sr=8-4 I found this. Not sure if those are the side feet in the photo though. What do you guys think?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Photo isn't correct, even the top mouse feet is different. I don't see that listed in takasta's store either, he usually sells Hotline Games and Tiger Gaming feet.


----------



## 0verpowered

Just picked one of these up. The shape does take a bit of getting used to, but after playing a couple rounds of PS2, I found it to be alright when gripping it at the widest part (fingertip). If you grip it higher up at the narrower parts, my hand gets cramped after awhile. KPM is still the most comfortable mouse for me. However, clicks and sensor feel better than the KPM.


----------



## Melan

Decided to put some antislip rubber on the sides. mouse is like 8mm wider but surprisingly comfy. So far I like it.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







As for 303 feet. Hypergilde might release their glides for 303 soon. Maybe for 502 as well.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Decided to put some antislip rubber on the sides. mouse is like 8mm wider but surprisingly comfy. So far I like it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for 303 feet. Hypergilde might release their glides for 303 soon. Maybe for 502 as well.


Looking good! I can't wait for them to release their replacement skates.


----------



## MainChicken

Where did you get the anti slip rubber? This mouse is almost perfect for me but the edge on the left hand side catches my pinky finger


----------



## Melan

Local store. It's a simple anti-slip sole for furniture.


----------



## MainChicken

It looks perfect almost as if it was designed for the mouse. I'll look on amazon and see if I can find something similar. If anyone know of where to buy something like this online in Europe let me know please.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Decided to put some antislip rubber on the sides. mouse is like 8mm wider but surprisingly comfy. So far I like it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for 303 feet. Hypergilde might release their glides for 303 soon. Maybe for 502 as well.


That...

... could actually solve my issues with the mouse. My main issue is the extremity of the diamond shape, not the shape itself. With pads like this I could create more width where needed.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> That...
> 
> ... could actually solve my issues with the mouse. My main issue is the extremity of the diamond shape, not the shape itself. With pads like this I could create more width where needed.


The diamond shape might be a contender for the worst idea I have seen. It's not a shape for the hand of a human.


----------



## CorruptBE

Well I would slap 2 at the front, 2 at the back, leaving a bit of open plastig in the middle...

... oh wait that would just "un-diamond" it


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The diamond shape might be a contender for the worst idea I have seen. It's not a shape for the hand of a human.


I actually feel it's a good shape for me.









I agree it's crazy that they went with that shape, but just because I don't really see why they thought there will be a market for it. At the same time, they don't sell anything "ergonomic" for the left hand, which feels like it should be a bigger niche than a tiny, weird mouse like the G302 and G303. I wonder if they wouldn't be able to sell more lefty-G402 than G302 for example.

In any case, I actually like that weird shape they chose better than a G100 shape, and better than the Logitech Mini / Zowie Mico shape, and it also seems to be an improvement over the Razer Abyssus (the first one... didn't try the new one). That's the shapes I'm comparing it to and I feel they did a good job trying to improve on those.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Well I would slap 2 at the front, 2 at the back, leaving a bit of open plastig in the middle...
> 
> ... oh wait that would just "un-diamond" it


First thing I will do when I get my mousse blisters in the mail.


----------



## bigtastie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Decided to put some antislip rubber on the sides. mouse is like 8mm wider but surprisingly comfy. So far I like it.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for 303 feet. Hypergilde might release their glides for 303 soon. Maybe for 502 as well.


After some days with the G303 I can see that I have somewhat of a problem my self. We had LAN at my home yesterday and played CSGO for 12 hours. Sometimes I felt cramp in my ring finger because I can't find any good position for it. So it either "rests" on the mouse in awkward position or it just "hovers" above the little finger. Eitherway it's uncomfortable in the long run. I might have to alter my grip a little or mod it with rubber sides or Sugru.

Other than that I love this mouse:
The buttons are FANTASTIC!
The scroll wheell is just right - a good in between by a heavy, clicky wheel and a smooth roller. Hard to describe, but I think it's very good (then again anything is a big step up from the IMO 1.1).
Sensor performance is excellent. Very responsive and smooth feedback. But yesterday I had a problem twice where I was looking at the ceiling. Something that never happened for me with the IMO 1.1. But apparently it was set to surface tune to cloth pad. Once I disabled that and went to factory reset I had no further problems.

All in all I am very happy with this mouse. I think that a pair of hyperglides and some moderation to the side of the mouse (to rest my ringfinger) would make it the perfect mouse for me.


----------



## mg7l0k

Result button lag A - Logitech G303 vs B - Logitech G400s


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






I am disappointed, this is bad.
Distracting from the overall series Logitech Gaming Mouse.


----------



## aayman_farzand

G400s is one of the lowest there is if I can remember correctly, just 2ms more is not a lot.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> When I say high sensitivity I mean 800 or higher. 1200 is typically the maximum useable sensitivity you can get to on 1920x1080 without detrimentally affecting how fast you can make precise movements. And that's assuming the best mouse on the market is being used.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2200_50#post_23788490 - This study showed what the vast majority of high-level competitive gamers already know: Hand movement accuracy declines with higher DPI settings. The maximum controllable resolution for the majority of people was 200-400dpi
> 
> @nittwit the advantages of higher DPI + lower ingame sens are mostly theoretic, and very hard to notice. There are people who notice improvements when doing the opposite. And I was corrected here for calling it "pixel skipping": http://www.overclock.net/t/1545382/csgo-m-rawinput-0-drops-samples/150_50#post_23717895
> 
> Some of the best counter-strike aimers in the world use 400dpi and ~3.6 sensitivity.


Haven't touched CSGO in a year but here goes:






1600 dpi and 0.75 ingame (rawinput on). It does create rather weird results indeed.


----------



## Melan

1-2ms isn't bad by any way. Also it's better if you wire it like rafa did. I don't trust this bumping.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Haven't touched CSGO in a year but here goes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1600 dpi and 0.75 ingame (rawinput on). It does create rather weird results indeed.


Can someone explain to me, why is it SO BAD to use high dpi, let's say, 5700DPI (maximum dpi of the G9X) and low sens in-game? I always used my G9X with the maximum dpi and very low sens in-game, obviously using raw input. I never noticed the stupid things that everyone says about high dpi (jitter/angle snapping/etc). It even felt and feels better than high sens in-game and lower dpi. It's the same stupid thing as "the native dpi of the mouse is always better, it causes less delay. But i'm still terribad at games".

I bet everyone to use low dpi and high sens and try to make very slow movements with the mouse, so you can see for yourself that it skips pixels.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Can someone explain to me, why is it SO BAD to use high dpi, let's say, 5700DPI (maximum dpi of the G9X) and low sens in-game? I always used my G9X with the maximum dpi and very low sens in-game, obviously using raw input. I never noticed the stupid things that everyone says about high dpi (jitter/angle snapping/etc). It even felt and feels better than high sens in-game and lower dpi. It's the same stupid thing as "the native dpi of the mouse is always better, it causes less delay. But i'm still terribad at games".
> 
> I bet everyone to use low dpi and high sens and try to make very slow movements with the mouse, so you can see for yourself that it skips pixels.


Read this, it explains how DPI is calculated and why high DPI is bad and some other stuff pretty clearly.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Can someone explain to me, why is it SO BAD to use high dpi, let's say, 5700DPI (maximum dpi of the G9X) and low sens in-game?


Numerous reasons:

Actual hardware performance decreasing (nowadays quite OK up until 2000 ish dpi levels tbh)
Yourself. Are you able to control such precision??
Game specific reasons: Precision or Stability? Which is more important? Lower DPI offers more stability and consistency, Higher more precision
...
Imo anything in between 400 and 2000 ish is personal preference nowadays, but beyond that... I really don't see the need for 5000 gazillion dpi.

My real sens in CSGO right now after 2 days (not having played for ~1 year) is now actually 800 dpi (more like 900 ish I think, it's an FK1) and 1.0 ingame. I just wanted to see the effect of 1600 and 0.75. It has some neat results, but tbh if I used it for a long duration my hand would get tired much quicker (small tight twitchy movements that I need to correct).

There's 1 exception where I've used 5000 dpi. Games which have such a messed up implementation that I wanted to minimize the impact of said implementation and put more trust into my hand and mouse. But in most cases these are consolified singleplayers


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Can someone explain to me, why is it SO BAD to use high dpi, let's say, 5700DPI (maximum dpi of the G9X) and low sens in-game? I always used my G9X with the maximum dpi and very low sens in-game, obviously using raw input. I never noticed the stupid things that everyone says about high dpi (jitter/angle snapping/etc). It even felt and feels better than high sens in-game and lower dpi. It's the same stupid thing as "the native dpi of the mouse is always better, it causes less delay. But i'm still terribad at games".
> 
> I bet everyone to use low dpi and high sens and try to make very slow movements with the mouse, so you can see for yourself that it skips pixels.


Most sensors jitter or have a filter at such high DPI values.

Minute movements will be amplified reducing some accuracy.

The link provided explains other reasonings well but it's obvious you didn't read it.


----------



## Melan

He's one of those people who buys that overninethousanddpi marketing bs.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Haven't touched CSGO in a year but here goes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1600 dpi and 0.75 ingame (rawinput on). It does create rather weird results indeed.


Nice cursor btw


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> My real sens in CSGO right now after 2 days (not having played for ~1 year) is now actually 800 dpi (more like 900 ish I think, it's an FK1) and 1.0 ingame. I just wanted to see the effect of 1600 and 0.75. It has some neat results, but tbh if I used it for a long duration my hand would get tired much quicker (small tight twitchy movements that I need to correct).


But that's a higher sensitivity so of course it will feel more out of control to you. Make the cm/360 the same and then post your findings.


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Numerous reasons:
> 
> Actual hardware performance decreasing (nowadays quite OK up until 2000 ish dpi levels tbh)
> Yourself. Are you able to control such precision??
> Game specific reasons: Precision or Stability? Which is more important? Lower DPI offers more stability and consistency, Higher more precision
> ...
> Imo anything in between 400 and 2000 ish is personal preference nowadays, but beyond that... I really don't see the need for 5000 gazillion dpi.
> 
> My real sens in CSGO right now after 2 days (not having played for ~1 year) is now actually 800 dpi (more like 900 ish I think, it's an FK1) and 1.0 ingame. I just wanted to see the effect of 1600 and 0.75. It has some neat results, but tbh if I used it for a long duration my hand would get tired much quicker (small tight twitchy movements that I need to correct).
> 
> There's 1 exception where I've used 5000 dpi. Games which have such a messed up implementation that I wanted to minimize the impact of said implementation and put more trust into my hand and mouse. But in most cases these are consolified singleplayers


Lolwut, what are you talking about?

"Actual hardware performance decreasing (nowadays quite OK up until 2000 ish dpi levels tbh)" It even feels better at 5700 dpi than at 900 dpi, and no, 5700 is not the "native dpi".

"Yourself. Are you able to control such precision??" WHAT? I use 7inch/360, and i use weights, w*f. Some players even use 3inch/360 and lower. Do you mean in Windows? I use 2/11, and raw input in-game(obviously).

"Game specific reasons: Precision or Stability? Which is more important? Lower DPI offers more stability and consistency, Higher more precision" Can you make a video about the stability and consistency issues of high dpi? Because high dpi doesn't cause "those problems" for me.

"My real sens in CSGO right now after 2 days (not having played for ~1 year) is now actually 800 dpi (more like 900 ish I think, it's an FK1) and 1.0 ingame. I just wanted to see the effect of 1600 and 0.75. It has some neat results, but tbh if I used it for a long duration my hand would get tired much quicker (small tight twitchy movements that I need to correct)."

w*f..., but that's a higher sens, you should use 0.5 sens and 1600 dpi. Care to explain those small tight twitchy movements? Is it because of your miscalculation?


----------



## CorruptBE

Well perhaps you should read the link he posted...

As mentioned by other people, malfunction speed, actual accuracy (as in how good it can represent your hand movements vs the maximum potential accuracy you can achieve, more room for errors, etc), ... many things can be affected.

And stability vs precision... it's rather simple: The mouse is less likely to pick up small movements or quirks, allowing you to keep the crosshair "in place" much easier.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> But that's a higher sensitivity so of course it will feel more out of control to you. Make the cm/360 the same and then post your findings.


I'm well aware of that. I just tried it to see what would happen. The sound based flick after the first 2 kills was off for instance.


----------



## Melan

And you're good at games? Good compared to who? Please elaborate. Also while at it, explain what makes me a bad player because obviously you've seen my play if you're throwing judgments like that.

Pushing sensors to their maximum doesn't result in good or better performance. Neither does using lower than normal settings and cranking up sensitivities. There's a "sweet spot" where sensitivity doesn't result in skipping and CPI isn't high enough for sensor to become unreliable. Funny enough, that sweet spot for sensor's CPI is 400-2000. I also find this "pixel perfect" stuff pretty silly, as your targets aren't pixel wide.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

In CS 1.6 I use the lowest widescreen resolution, and changing my sens between 2 and 8 didn't seem to affect anything when using 400dpi.

I changed my resolution to 1920x1080 and I did notice that there was some image jitter at 8 sensitivity, but not on 2 sens.

It seems to be mostly cosmetic though.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eyesmiles*
> 
> Now I'm starting to think the G303 PCB can fit into a Kinzu shell.


Has anybody tried putting the sensor in a Kinzu?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> In CS 1.6 I use the lowest widescreen resolution, and changing my sens between 2 and 8 didn't seem to affect anything when using 400dpi.
> 
> I changed my resolution to 1920x1080 and I did notice that there was some image jitter at 8 sensitivity, but not on 2 sens.
> 
> It seems to be mostly cosmetic though.


I have this idea that it affects some players more then others, depending on a style of aiming.

Some people aim directly at the target, have a really good initial flickshot but lack some tracking (this can of course vary depending on skill level, I'm talking averages here). Then other people have the ability to track targets really well, often a bit twitchy at times, whom will make really tiny adjustments when needed but have a slightly worser initial flickshot.

The latter could most likely be affected more by this jittery feel and might prefer a higher dpi (not 5000 of course).

Just an idea though (remember it's not a skill argument, just merely a "different way of aiming" with the mouse).

EDIT:

In essence, player 1 is better at estimating distances and moving accordingly from A to B better but has less precision, player 2 however has better precision movement and counters by twitching more.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nievin*
> 
> I dunno man, I swapped from a 3310 to the 3366 and went from LEM to Global.


you are aware of the recent rank inflation right...
people who were dmgs 2 months ago are now ~lem


----------



## Falkentyne

The amount of egos in this thread....holy cow ... lol


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> In CS 1.6 I use the lowest widescreen resolution, and changing my sens between 2 and 8 didn't seem to affect anything when using 400dpi.
> 
> I changed my resolution to 1920x1080 and I did notice that there was some image jitter at 8 sensitivity, but not on 2 sens.
> 
> It seems to be mostly cosmetic though.


What? Does sensitivity work differently in 1.6?


----------



## eMbAh

Is it worth upgrading from 302?


----------



## Melan

No. Unless you reach 3m/s speeds sometimes.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No. Unless you reach 3m/s speeds sometimes.


There are differences inbetween as well.


----------



## Melan

Beside side feet, didn't see any difference. Oh and a braided cord.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Beside side feet, didn't see any difference. Oh and a braided cord.


I mean performance wise, my main gripe with AM010 is actually the Area from 1m/s to 3m/s, where it simply doesnt feel as good as the 3366, or even 3310 and 3988, altough i prefer AM010 at lower Speeds over those two.


----------



## Melan

idk. 302 and 303 sensors feel exactly the same to me.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 feels alot smoother for me. Also the more flexible cord helped my aim alot.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Unless Logitech has changed something, the g303 PCB should fit into alot shells:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mico302!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the easiest way to keep the wheel is to cut the part from the g302 shell that contains the wheel/CPI cycle button and glue it into the top shell part of the other shell. In the first picture you can see the holes for the two screws that connect the g302 top shell part with the bottom part. This way the the ideal wheel height/position remains (in order to work).
> 
> In the second picture, you can see glued parts where the mousefeet belong to compensate height difference. That is because the g302 bottom is partially _stepped_.


That's amazing. Why did you keep the bottom of the G302 instead of just taking the PCB?


----------



## Melan

Just noticed that logitech prices gone waaaay up for their mice. G300S used to be 30 euros, now it's 47 euros. 502 went up to 93 euros.


----------



## Brightmist

That's just euro losing value against dollar and Logitech compensating.


----------



## revoc

Supposedly this mouse stores 3 profiles on-board. In LGS I have the dpi switch set to 'switch profile' and when I click it, it doesn't change profiles. :/


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> + They use over 9000 ingame sens.
> 
> Honestly I was fine with 400 in CSGO when using 720p, but at 1080p I find myself preferring 800.
> 
> I personally think dpi cannot be looked at as a single sole variable, it's one that needs to be looked at with 2 other variables in mind: ingame sensitivity and resolution and how this all eventually translates to the end result for the end user looking at the monitor.
> 
> On the desktop I can consistently move 1 pixel left and right using 800 dpi and 6/11 (with a responsive enough mouse! There have been 3090 mice that actually don't allow me to do this consistently). Hell I can even do that at 1600, beyond that it becomes harder.


At 2560x1440 what CPI is recommended? Is 800 enough?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> At 2560x1440 what CPI is recommended? Is 800 enough?


With any sensor, it is best to play at the lowest DPI you are comfortable with. If you think 800 is as low as you want to go, but still fine with it, then keep it.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Just noticed that logitech prices gone waaaay up for their mice. G300S used to be 30 euros, now it's 47 euros. 502 went up to 93 euros.


Because as and razed does overcharge their mices, I believe logi think what the heck. People buy the, like *****es so why shouldn't i?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Because as and razed does overcharge their mices, I believe logi think what the heck. People buy the, like *****es so why shouldn't i?


In Comparison to what?


----------



## Atavax

my keyboard cost $260. my monitor $450, my headphones $300, my earbuds $1000, my mic $170, my mouse $70. High quality mice are the cheapest peripheral! They're under priced! Where is the mouse with a sensor that costs the manufacturer $50 to make? It doesn't exist because people are complaining about the highest end mice with the highest end sensor costing $70 retail.


----------



## exitone

Razer is still the most overpriced but not many people would pay any higher prices than what it is now apart from Razer since they have a far bigger market share compared to other brands.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> That's amazing. Why did you keep the bottom of the G302 instead of just taking the PCB?










Yeah i like it too. It is my personal favourite aswell!

The reason is because of difference between lense mold (g302/mico). The native distance between the sensor lense and the mousepad is important and should stay within manufacturer standards/specifics. I do not know (and did not wanted to risk it) about the g302 sensor but the 3310 (fk1) did stutter on a qck after swapping the fk1 PCB into a mico shell while using the mico lense height/mold (3305DK-H and 3310 have identical lense length&broad dimensions).
So in order to maintain 100% sensor functionality, i think this is the fastest/safest way. Also you do not have to worrie about the lense mold nor how to attach the PCB to the bottom.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah i like it too. It is my personal favourite aswell!
> 
> The reason is because of difference between lense mold (g302/mico). The native distance between the sensor lense and the mousepad is important and should stay within manufacturer standards/specifics. I do not know (and did not wanted to risk it) about the g302 sensor but the 3310 (fk1) did stutter on a qck after swapping the fk1 PCB into a mico shell while using the mico lense height/mold (3305DK-H and 3310 have identical lense length&broad dimensions).
> So in order to maintain 100% sensor functionality, i think this is the fastest/safest way. Also you do not have to worrie about the lense mold nor how to attach the PCB to the bottom.


Thanks! So in other words the bottom of the G302 lines up perfectly with the Mico in these pictures and we can see all the plastic that's left of the 302 bottom? How did you manage to cut it apart that efficiently?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my keyboard cost $260. my monitor $450, my headphones $300, my earbuds $1000, my mic $170, my mouse $70. High quality mice are the cheapest peripheral! They're under priced! Where is the mouse with a sensor that costs the manufacturer $50 to make? It doesn't exist because people are complaining about the highest end mice with the highest end sensor costing $70 retail.


1k earbuds?

dr dre much?


----------



## cryptos9099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> 1k earbuds?
> 
> dr dre much?


https://www.google.com/search?q=CIEM&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XxhSVczANYu1oQS6toCwBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=979#tbm=isch&q=custom+iem&revid=1168978965

CIEMs maybe?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Don't forget the $1000 MLG-certified gold plated Dorito's


----------



## 354145

Hi guys, just bought a g303 and its working flawlessly. Shape could be better but yeah..

What im curious about is if your "back button", you know the thumb one?, is also kinda flimsy?

If i put my thumb on it and let my thumb "slide" down, it makes a noise as if a spring is vibrating haha. Is my mouse defect or is this standard?

Thanks.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *354145*
> 
> Hi guys, just bought a g303 and its working flawlessly. Shape could be better but yeah..
> 
> What im curious about is if your "back button", you know the thumb one?, is also kinda flimsy?
> 
> If i put my thumb on it and let my thumb "slide" down, it makes a noise as if a spring is vibrating haha. Is my mouse defect or is this standard?
> 
> Thanks.


Just tried it, nope it's rigid and doesn't many any noises.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *354145*
> 
> Hi guys, just bought a g303 and its working flawlessly. Shape could be better but yeah..
> 
> What im curious about is if your "back button", you know the thumb one?, is also kinda flimsy?
> 
> If i put my thumb on it and let my thumb "slide" down, it makes a noise as if a spring is vibrating haha. Is my mouse defect or is this standard?
> 
> Thanks.


Standard as the actuators are pieces of plastic. The side buttons are Huanos iirc.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Thanks! So in other words the bottom of the G302 lines up perfectly with the Mico in these pictures and we can see all the plastic that's left of the 302 bottom?


Yes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> How did you manage to cut it apart that efficiently?


I have used a Dremel.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=CIEM&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XxhSVczANYu1oQS6toCwBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=979#tbm=isch&q=custom+iem&revid=1168978965
> 
> CIEMs maybe?


Yep


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Yes.
> I have used a Dremel.


Thanks for the answers!

How did you make sure the whole thing doesn't fall apart? Did you glue the PCB to the bottom of the Mico? And weren't you worried about cutting into the PCB? What do you think about cutting around it? I might do this with a Kinzu and a G303.


----------



## 354145

I have another question. I noticed something weird when i was playing cs earlier.

If i make the same movement left to right repeatedly the mouse seems to travel upwards/downwards depending on if i use only my wrist or only my arm.
Its kind of hard to explain but i held mouse1 down in paint and moved my wrist left to right in the same spot to show you guys.

Is your mouse the same and is this normal?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *354145*
> 
> I have another question. I noticed something weird when i was playing cs earlier.
> 
> If i make the same movement left to right repeatedly the mouse seems to travel upwards/downwards depending on if i use only my wrist or only my arm.
> Its kind of hard to explain but i held mouse1 down in paint and moved my wrist left to right in the same spot to show you guys.
> 
> Is your mouse the same and is this normal?


Most likely human error.


----------



## 354145

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Most likely human error.


Hm. I dont really see what the error could be. Im moving my wrist from left to right while keeping my arm in the same position. Im not moving the mouse up or down, only sideways, yet it travels vertically..


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *354145*
> 
> Hm. I dont really see what the error could be. Im moving my wrist from left to right while keeping my arm in the same position. Im not moving the mouse up or down, only sideways, yet it travels vertically..


For example, you can make the mouse pointer drift up in your left-right movement experiment if you turn the front of the mouse a bit into the direction you are moving it in. I drew a picture to try explain:


----------



## TriviumKM

Same happens to me with all my mice; it's just human error like popups said.


----------



## Brightmist

It's Windows recoil


----------



## acid_reptile

That's why angle snapping is awesome.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> That's why angle snapping is awesome.


More like that's why sensor positioning is important


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *354145*
> 
> I have another question. I noticed something weird when i was playing cs earlier.
> 
> If i make the same movement left to right repeatedly the mouse seems to travel upwards/downwards depending on if i use only my wrist or only my arm.
> Its kind of hard to explain but i held mouse1 down in paint and moved my wrist left to right in the same spot to show you guys.
> 
> Is your mouse the same and is this normal?


haha....
That's because you are not in the exact same horizontal position with the mouse.
Every mouse does this.
Even my Deathadder.

You need to have it attached to a machine in order to keep movements perfectly exact.
Any SLIGHT Tilt to your wrist, and a human can not keep his wrist perfectly level, is going to cause drift.

Try to draw a straight line in windows paint.
Notice the imperfections

Then try to draw a straight line BACKWARDS the other direction, with the same imperfections reversed.
You can't do it.
Compound that by fast movements....and .....yep.

That's one thing that "angle snapping" will help with (aka "prediction").
Try enabling prediction in the LGS and try the same thing.

BTW there was a MASSIVE Thread on this in the G502 area or maybe it was a whole new thread. It went on for pages and pages even after proof was posted that it was human error. Finally it died...


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> That's why angle snapping is awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> More like that's why sensor positioning is important
Click to expand...

That kind of sensor positioning would be pretty hard for a company to fix as it would have to be perfectly inline with how the player grips it so the tilt doesn't cause extra movement plus many here support a forward sensor position so you can add movement using tilting.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> haha....
> That's because you are not in the exact same horizontal position with the mouse.
> Every mouse does this.
> Even my Deathadder.
> 
> You need to have it attached to a machine in order to keep movements perfectly exact.
> Any SLIGHT Tilt to your wrist, and a human can not keep his wrist perfectly level, is going to cause drift.
> 
> Try to draw a straight line in windows paint.
> Notice the imperfections
> 
> Then try to draw a straight line BACKWARDS the other direction, with the same imperfections reversed.
> You can't do it.
> Compound that by fast movements....and .....yep.
> 
> That's one thing that "angle snapping" will help with (aka "prediction").
> Try enabling prediction in the LGS and try the same thing.
> 
> BTW there was a MASSIVE Thread on this in the G502 area or maybe it was a whole new thread. It went on for pages and pages even after proof was posted that it was human error. Finally it died...


Do you have a link for said thread? Im very interested in reading it.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> For example, you can make the mouse pointer drift up in your left-right movement experiment if you turn the front of the mouse a bit into the direction you are moving it in. I drew a picture to try explain:


you got the tilt reversed but yea that's why

random fact: if you look at the led (it's a bit visible) you'll notice that after a couple seconds of inactivity, it becomes dim (implying a sleep mode/state). i don't think this is perceptible but still what's the point of saving power for a gaming mouse...???


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> That kind of sensor positioning would be pretty hard for a company to fix as it would have to be perfectly inline with how the player grips it so the tilt doesn't cause extra movement plus many here support a forward sensor position so you can add movement using tilting.


Yea logitech, how about making adjustable sensor position instead of this useless adjustable lift off crap? (maybe do proper shapes first)


----------



## microe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> random fact: if you look at the led (it's a bit visible) you'll notice that after a couple seconds of inactivity, it becomes dim (implying a sleep mode/state). i don't think this is perceptible but still what's the point of saving power for a gaming mouse...???


My guess would be to increase the life of the LED. LEDs become less bright over time as you use them and at a certain point the LED will become too dim. The speed of this degradation is a function of current drive (i.e. brightness) among other things.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Are we ever going to get a firmware/software update to fix surface tuning and LOD?


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Are we ever going to get a firmware/software update to fix surface tuning and LOD?


What would you want it to do ? Best and easiest fix would be to remove surface tuning button completely from LGS. LOD is low enough as is, only thing it does is break stuff.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> What would you want it to do ? Best and easiest fix would be to remove surface tuning button completely from LGS. LOD is low enough as is, only thing it does is break stuff.


Why? 3366 only spazz-out after a certain speed when calibration's active. It's fine under 3.5-4 m/s.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Not everyone wants a low ass LOD. Mines don't track even on default if I tilt it ever slightly.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Not everyone wants a low ass LOD. Mines don't track even on default if I tilt it ever slightly.


Well, you need the adjustable LOD option before and after calibration to fix that, not remove calibration. Everyone's LOD chioces isn't the same, does this even needs to be said?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Well, you need the adjustable LOD option before and after calibration to fix that, not remove calibration. Everyone's LOD chioces isn't the same, does this even needs to be said?


I dont recall suggesting to remove calibration.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I dont recall suggesting to remove calibration.


Yea, my bad.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Well, you need the adjustable LOD option before and after calibration to fix that, not remove calibration. Everyone's LOD chioces isn't the same, does this even needs to be said?


"Calibration" (from what I understand) is meant to lower LOD as much as possible on the surface you are "calibrating" the sensor for.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> "Calibration" (from what I understand) is meant to lower LOD as much as possible on the surface you are "calibrating" the sensor for.


Yes, but low LOD after calibration you get doesn't suit everyone. Like extremely low LOD you get after calibration on X5's 3988 and default LOD under 1 CD of g303 doesn't suit everyone either.

That's why there should be options. 3 different levels of LOD (high/med/low) before and after calibration netting you around 6 different LODs for one surface.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Yes, but low LOD after calibration you get doesn't suit everyone. Like extremely low LOD you get after calibration on X5's 3988 and default LOD under 1 CD of g303 doesn't suit everyone either.
> 
> That's why there should be options. 3 different levels of LOD (high/med/low) before and after calibration netting you around 6 different LODs for one surface.


To "calibrate" the sensor is to lower the LOD per surface. So why would you want to increase LOD after lowing it? This "calibration" feature can simply be changing the voltage of the LED.


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> To "calibrate" the sensor is to lower the LOD per surface. So why would you want to increase LOD after lowing it? This "calibration" feature can simply be changing the voltage of the LED.


You'll want to increase LOD if it's too low and makes the mouse unusable for you.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Do you have a link for said thread? Im very interested in reading it.


I had to dig for ages to find it. Thread was 5 months old.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1498681/inconsistent-tracking-on-logitech-g502/170#post_22521625

It started out with the "snap at sky" calibration bug that we already know the 3366 has, then turned into a "circle drift" debate, which is the exact same thing at that straight line drift thing is.
The picture on that page pretty much put that argument to rest.

When I tested my Deathadders (both of them, one black edition and one 3G 1800) and got the SAME "Circle drift" problem with them (on two different computers) as the G502, that was proof it's human error.

The thread died after the explanation was proven. Looks like it came back up in this thread, though


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *354145*
> 
> I have another question. I noticed something weird when i was playing cs earlier.
> 
> If i make the same movement left to right repeatedly the mouse seems to travel upwards/downwards depending on if i use only my wrist or only my arm.
> Its kind of hard to explain but i held mouse1 down in paint and moved my wrist left to right in the same spot to show you guys.
> 
> Is your mouse the same and is this normal?


Do a short line instead of a long one, cursor doesn't drift => human error.


----------



## qsxcv

it's not even "error"
it's the fact the mice sensors don't detect changes in rotation
similar to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonholonomic_system#Rolling_sphere


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What? Does sensitivity work differently in 1.6?


Differently than what? Both my examples were in 1.6. I was testing and confirming what this guy said: http://www.overclock.net/t/1545382/csgo-m-rawinput-0-drops-samples/150_50#post_23717895
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my keyboard cost $260. my monitor $450, my headphones $300, my earbuds $1000, my mic $170, my mouse $70. High quality mice are the cheapest peripheral! They're under priced! Where is the mouse with a sensor that costs the manufacturer $50 to make? It doesn't exist because people are complaining about the highest end mice with the highest end sensor costing $70 retail.


Dude... no...

Those prices are insane.

Not to mention the whole MLT04 10 year old $20 mouse outperforming pretty much every other mouse regardless of price. Price is definitely not the limiting factor when it comes to mice. The finalmouse cost under $20 to make from what I've heard, yet it also outperforms almost everything else (disregarding quality control which they seem to be fixing without increased costs).

Seeing people using studio mics at their desktops.... sigh. I'm pretty sure there are other limiting factors when it comes to audio over the web (codecs, 192kbps for youtube, etc.)... but even without that... how much better is a studio mic going to sound over the mic built into my $50 webcam... probably not much, and that level of voice quality is incredibly insignificant....


----------



## 354145

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> For example, you can make the mouse pointer drift up in your left-right movement experiment if you turn the front of the mouse a bit into the direction you are moving it in. I drew a picture to try explain:


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> haha....
> That's because you are not in the exact same horizontal position with the mouse.
> Every mouse does this.
> Even my Deathadder.
> 
> You need to have it attached to a machine in order to keep movements perfectly exact.
> Any SLIGHT Tilt to your wrist, and a human can not keep his wrist perfectly level, is going to cause drift.
> 
> Try to draw a straight line in windows paint.
> Notice the imperfections
> 
> Then try to draw a straight line BACKWARDS the other direction, with the same imperfections reversed.
> You can't do it.
> Compound that by fast movements....and .....yep.
> 
> That's one thing that "angle snapping" will help with (aka "prediction").
> Try enabling prediction in the LGS and try the same thing.
> 
> BTW there was a MASSIVE Thread on this in the G502 area or maybe it was a whole new thread. It went on for pages and pages even after proof was posted that it was human error. Finally it died...


Thank you both for this







that pretty much explained it.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Those prices are insane.
> 
> Not to mention the whole MLT04 10 year old $20 mouse outperforming pretty much every other mouse regardless of price. Price is definitely not the limiting factor when it comes to mice. The finalmouse cost under $20 to make from what I've heard, yet it also outperforms almost everything else (disregarding quality control which they seem to be fixing without increased costs).
> 
> Seeing people using studio mics at their desktops.... sigh. I'm pretty sure there are other limiting factors when it comes to audio over the web (codecs, 192kbps for youtube, etc.)... but even without that... how much better is a studio mic going to sound over the mic built into my $50 webcam... probably not much, and that level of voice quality is incredibly insignificant....


Price is definitely a factor. The higher the margin, the smaller the market a company can aim for. You're really going to pretend the shell on the finalmouse is great? Fine, whatever, not going to argue something so subjective, but why does the finalmouse outperform almost every other mouse? Its not like Logitech or Razer or Steelseries doesn't have the technology to build a comparable mouse probably for even cheaper. Low price = low margin = need to sell more of them.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> how much better is a studio mic going to sound over the mic built into my $50 webcam... probably not much, and that level of voice quality is incredibly insignificant....


Huge difference, even ordinary gaming headset mics sound a lot better than webcam mics. Maybe not a big difference between studio vs headset mic over the internet, but webcam mics are very inferior.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Seeing people using studio mics at their desktops.... sigh. I'm pretty sure there are other limiting factors when it comes to audio over the web (codecs, 192kbps for youtube, etc.)... but even without that... how much better is a studio mic going to sound over the mic built into my $50 webcam... probably not much, and that level of voice quality is incredibly insignificant....


Getting the "source" of audio in order is the first priority.

But tbh when buying a studio MIC the real question one should ask is "what am I doing with it?".

Reasons I can think of for a highend MIC:

You're doing music or anything audio related recording for work or hobby that requires high quality recordings
You're a streamer with enough views to warrant such a MIC (buffs the quality of your streams)
Otherwise I really don't see the point. I have a Sennheiser HD650 because I wanted something for music and movies that sounded great. Is it nice while gaming? Sure, is it a massive improvement while gaming over headphones in the € 100 to € 200 range? Nope. Music and movies is where it shines, provided the source material is high quality.

People buying high end gear without thinking it over twice always make me raise and eyebrow or two.


----------



## Atavax

You ignore that audio quality isn't the only difference with a high end product, there is also the issue of durability. I have never had a headset mic even last a year. This mic has lasted me 2 years so far. If this mic lasts 3 years, it would cost the same as buying 1 modmic 4.0 a year for the same period of time, with far better audio quality and if it lasts 4 years, then it would actually save me money. Its not only for gaming, its for socializing as well, i have friends from around the world and with the lack of body language, having vocals clear is important. It is also future proof, no matter what i do, baring becoming a musician, it will be good enough. I can go on shows and have discussions. I can stream, i can commentate, i can do whatever. Which means there isn't even the temptation to upgrade my mic, keyboard, or IEMs. I have beyond reasonably good in all of them, so until they die, i am not tempted to spend more money and upgrade it. While if you skimp on one, at the back of your mind, you're going to be thinking about upgrading before the device dies.

The one reason why i think its hard to justify spending a lot on a premium mouse. Switches often fail, the cable can easily get damaged, and the skates can easily wear out all in less then a year. And sending in your mouse and waiting like a week or two for a replacement isn't good enough. If an elegant solution was found, maybe something similar to the ROG swappable switches, then i think it would be easy to justify $150+ on a premium mouse.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Seeing people using studio mics at their desktops.... sigh. I'm pretty sure there are other limiting factors when it comes to audio over the web (codecs, 192kbps for youtube, etc.)... but even without that... how much better is a studio mic going to sound over the mic built into my $50 webcam... probably not much, and that level of voice quality is incredibly insignificant....


I agree just like all the fools trying to watercool. Don't they know this the site for frugal people.


----------



## edyago

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Seeing people using studio mics at their desktops.... sigh. I'm pretty sure there are other limiting factors when it comes to audio over the web (codecs, 192kbps for youtube, etc.)... but even without that... how much better is a studio mic going to sound over the mic built into my $50 webcam... probably not much, and that level of voice quality is incredibly insignificant....


...What? Really? You can't possibly believe that.


----------



## qsxcv

i'll just leave this here


----------



## edyago

So we're comparing lavs to studio mics?


----------



## Melan

In a mouse thread.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i think it would be easy to justify $150+ on a premium mouse.


Well if a company brought out a mouse that met our demands in terms of performance, has more durability then any other mouse and comes in several shapes to please a large group of people... I can understand that price. Though I doubt the average ZOMG 140000 DPI ZO AMAZINGZ!!! Crowd would understand.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i'll just leave this here


I have a € 7 desk mic lol. Kind of silly if you see it next to my HD650. Thing is, I only use that to do callouts in games so why would I need a better microphone?


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> You ignore that audio quality isn't the only difference with a high end product, there is also the issue of durability. I have never had a headset mic even last a year. This mic has lasted me 2 years so far. If this mic lasts 3 years, it would cost the same as buying 1 modmic 4.0 a year for the same period of time, with far better audio quality and if it lasts 4 years, then it would actually save me money. Its not only for gaming, its for socializing as well, i have friends from around the world and with the lack of body language, having vocals clear is important. It is also future proof, no matter what i do, baring becoming a musician, it will be good enough. I can go on shows and have discussions. I can stream, i can commentate, i can do whatever. Which means there isn't even the temptation to upgrade my mic, keyboard, or IEMs. I have beyond reasonably good in all of them, so until they die, i am not tempted to spend more money and upgrade it. While if you skimp on one, at the back of your mind, you're going to be thinking about upgrading before the device dies.
> 
> The one reason why i think its hard to justify spending a lot on a premium mouse. Switches often fail, the cable can easily get damaged, and the skates can easily wear out all in less then a year. And sending in your mouse and waiting like a week or two for a replacement isn't good enough. If an elegant solution was found, maybe something similar to the ROG swappable switches, then i think it would be easy to justify $150+ on a premium mouse.


Lolno. theres a reason mice are 30-70 bucks, it doesnt cost anywhere near 150 to make, 260 dollars for a keyboard is ******ed too. i have a high end TKL with mx browns and blue led's and it was 140. most high quality keyboards are in the 150 range, not 260, besides topre but they dont even have any samples for topre so u dont even know if u like it more than cherry. and 1k for earbuds lol


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Price is definitely a factor. The higher the margin, the smaller the market a company can aim for. You're really going to pretend the shell on the finalmouse is great? Fine, whatever, not going to argue something so subjective, but why does the finalmouse outperform almost every other mouse? Its not like Logitech or Razer or Steelseries doesn't have the technology to build a comparable mouse probably for even cheaper. Low price = low margin = need to sell more of them.


I haven't had any of the shell problems that other people talked about on any of my FMs or Auroras. They're probably just quality control issues.

As far as finalmouse sensor performance, we can only speculate, but it seems possible that other companies may be trying to do too much, and thus it creates some kind of buffer (IE: "smoothing"). Or it might be one specific technical difference (considering that razer's 4g sensor is quite good and still has many features), or it might be many contributing factors. But either way it seems due to knowledge/decision making rather than expense.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Huge difference, even ordinary gaming headset mics sound a lot better than webcam mics. Maybe not a big difference between studio vs headset mic over the internet, but webcam mics are very inferior.


Well that's going to vary of course from product to product. I've been in VOIP servers with many people with gaming headset mics that sounded awful and unclear, and had other issues. Whereas my webcam mic sounds very clear in VOIP programs and has no other issues.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *edyago*
> 
> ...What? Really? You can't possibly believe that.


Expensive mics are for people who record music, make professional videos, etc.. I'm referring to random streamers/gamers who use studio mics.

For example, I was watching a stream where the casters had these studio mics and the audio quality was so bad because of other issues. And even if there where no other issues, the example that qsxcv posted shows what I'm talking about - the difference between a cheap mic and an expensive one is mostly insignificant/irrelevant for the vast majority of people.


----------



## Melan

I actually ordered Neewer microphone. Though about getting modmic at first but kinda not too willing to stick something on my DT770 and spend 60$. Only drawback - gotta wear a shirt now.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

*Attempts to get people to get back on topic*
Today I noticed in CS:GO that if I doubled my dpi to 800 and halved my in game sens, my cursor movement became alot smoother.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> *Attempts to get people to get back on topic*
> Today I noticed in CS:GO that if I doubled my dpi to 800 and halved my in game sens, my cursor movement became alot smoother.


Probably placebo. The lower the DPI, the better performance even on a 3366 (Logitech rep confirmed). Is your in game sens on 400 like 2.9ish? I think I read that after 2.7 on 400 then there will be pixel skipping.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably placebo. The lower the DPI, the better performance even on a 3366 (Logitech rep confirmed). Is your in game sens on 400 like 2.9ish? I think I read that after 2.7 on 400 then there will be pixel skipping.


It was 2.5156 (got this from mouse-sensitivity.com for Desktop->1080p 90FOV) and now its 1.2578. My ability to move the cursor in a straight line improved drastically.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably placebo. The lower the DPI, the better performance even on a 3366 (Logitech rep confirmed). Is your in game sens on 400 like 2.9ish? I think I read that after 2.7 on 400 then there will be pixel skipping.


I would like to see the source, can you please link it here?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> I would like to see the source, can you please link it here?


Somewhere in there. 



As for the pixel skipping, can't remember where on OCN that I read that.
I doubt that 800 DPI on that sensor would feel inferior, though. Performance diminishes at higher dpis in the thousands.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Probably placebo. The lower the DPI, the better performance even on a 3366 (Logitech rep confirmed). Is your in game sens on 400 like 2.9ish? I think I read that after 2.7 on 400 then there will be pixel skipping.


That was an excellent video, but he didn't mention the 3366 by name and CPATE did say that each DPI is native to the sensor so I'm guessing that that issue has been dealt with in the 3366?

For the pixel skipping I think you mean where when sensitivity and DPI forms a combination that leads to a XXXX*.xx* CPI and it either rounds up or down one pixel. That's easy to address, just make sure the multiplication comes to a whole number.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> That was an excellent video, but he didn't mention the 3366 by name and CPATE did say that each DPI is native to the sensor so I'm guessing that that issue has been dealt with in the 3366?


Yes and no. The 3310 and 3366 both have native DPI steps of 50, but the rule of thumb is to use the lowest DPI you're comfortable with because the theoretical performance will be better. 12000 DPI with 1 in game sens would feel inferior to 2000 DPI with 6 in game sens. (Don't use that. Too high Lol)


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i'll just leave this here


seems like the people that are like, lol, all you need is a $5 mouse...

I have tried many, many cheap mics in the past 10 years. They all sucked.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Lolno. theres a reason mice are 30-70 bucks, it doesnt cost anywhere near 150 to make, 260 dollars for a keyboard is ******ed too. i have a high end TKL with mx browns and blue led's and it was 140. most high quality keyboards are in the 150 range, not 260, besides topre but they dont even have any samples for topre so u dont even know if u like it more than cherry. and 1k for earbuds lol


my keyboard does have topre switches. Topre switches are amazing, trust me, worth the money! And yeah, modern mice usually don't go above the $70 mark, but it would be nice to have a company that could have a high enough quality mouse to justify a significantly higher price tag.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Speaking of keyboards I got my Steelseries Apex M800 about a week ago. And tbh I think it was worth the 217$ I paid for it. Now if only it had more complex illumination software...


----------



## Atavax

never liked the lighting gimmick of peripherals, love the aesthetic of mine, feels a little retro imo.

http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-White/dp/B000EXZ0V2


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my keyboard does have topre switches. Topre switches are amazing, trust me, worth the money! And yeah, modern mice usually don't go above the $70 mark, but it would be nice to have a company that could have a high enough quality mouse to justify a significantly higher price tag.


70 dollars is already heavily overpriced for a mouse. arent the sensors extremely cheap from pixart? like a couple bucks or something? it doesnt cost anything for a company to make a mouse


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> 70 dollars is already heavily overpriced for a mouse. arent the sensors extremely cheap from pixart? like a couple bucks or something? it doesnt cost anything for a company to make a mouse


You got to keep in mind yields. A mouse is made of many parts that could go wrong. Not every mouse produced passes Logitech's high QC standards.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> never liked the lighting gimmick of peripherals, love the aesthetic of mine, feels a little retro imo.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-White/dp/B000EXZ0V2


Why does that keyboard cost $250?


----------



## Sencha

Firstly it's made in a country where workers arent treated like ****. And Topre switches are high end and low amounts are produced over mx. It's a very fine board for typing on. It's not for everyone though. layout is superb.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Firstly it's made in a country where workers arent treated like ****. And Topre switches are high end and low amounts are produced over mx. It's a very fine board for typing on. It's not for everyone though. layout is superb.


Thank you I'm fine with my Genius KB120 that costed 10 bucks. I have it for 6 years and it lived 5 lan events hehe.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Thank you I'm fine with my Genius KB120 that costed 10 bucks. I have it for 6 years and it lived 5 lan events hehe.


We're talking about the hhkb price, not justifying our own keyboards.

In every interest and hobby there is a top end. Where you choose to spend is up to you and of little interest to others


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> never liked the lighting gimmick of peripherals, love the aesthetic of mine, feels a little retro imo.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-White/dp/B000EXZ0V2
> 
> 
> 
> Why does that keyboard cost $250?
Click to expand...

One of the highest quality keyboards you can get.
Coding on it is <3


----------



## Atavax

PBT keys, Dye-Sublimated labels, and topre switches are the three main features that make it expensive.

I feel like we should just make a thread about my peripherals


----------



## Vorsplummi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yes and no. The 3310 and 3366 both have native DPI steps of 50, but the rule of thumb is to use the lowest DPI you're comfortable with because the theoretical performance will be better. 12000 DPI with 1 in game sens would feel inferior to 2000 DPI with 6 in game sens. (Don't use that. Too high Lol)


I don't understand. Doesn't that mean those sensors don't have high native DPI's? Morier is talking about subdividing pixels which is artificial way to increase DPI. However G303 is marketed with native 12000DPI sensor?


----------



## Brightmist

What they're calling "native DPI" at this point is just another way to increase DPI on sensor level, without using interpolation therefore these mice have less input lag compared to older models.

But, they're still less accurate at high DPIs since they can only subdivide pixels on sensor array so far.

So he ends up explaining that sensors are most accurate at their lowest DPI.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What they're calling "native DPI" at this point is just another way to increase DPI on sensor level, without using interpolation therefore these mice have less input lag compared to older models.
> 
> But, they're still less accurate at high DPIs since they can only subdivide pixels on sensor array so far.
> 
> So he ends up explaining that sensors are most accurate at their lowest DPI.


Good explanation. The difference between 200 dpi and around 1600 DPI probably wouldn't be discernible on the 3366. It is when you get like 2500+


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Thanks for the answers!
> 
> How did you make sure the whole thing doesn't fall apart? Did you glue the PCB to the bottom of the Mico? And weren't you worried about cutting into the PCB? What do you think about cutting around it? I might do this with a Kinzu and a G303.


Sry for the delay, i was busy. I use a FK1 as a example, the principle is the same.

First you unscrew the PCB from the bottom and remove the PCB so you do not need to worrie while cutting (first & second picture).

Then you cut the bottom using the shortest way around the red (these keep the minimal distance between PCB and bottom) and blue (screw holes and lower plastic pieces that keep the maximal distance) marked points (see picture #3).

Before you use hot glue to attach the bottom to the new shell, take some scotch tape for example, to secure the bottom and its position (see picture #5).


Spoiler: pictures!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I actually ordered Neewer microphone. Though about getting modmic at first but kinda not too willing to stick something on my DT770 and spend 60$. Only drawback - gotta wear a shirt now.


I am waiting for the uni-directional mute version of the ModMic to be restocked. A cheap mic like the Neewer or Zalman does not have such features and quality control. I do think $50 is to much, $30 would be fine.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> After using the G303, I thought the person who designed the shape should be fired. That's my honest feeling about it. I can understand people make mistakes, but this one just shows how flawed their mindset is. You can't keep people like that.
> 
> I wouldn't call Logitech a "crap company." There no Valve, but they did make mistakes with some of their newest mice.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/598986695107739649









That's some big shoes to fill.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yes and no. The 3310 and 3366 both have native DPI steps of 50, but the rule of thumb is to use the lowest DPI you're comfortable with because the theoretical performance will be better. 12000 DPI with 1 in game sens would feel inferior to 2000 DPI with 6 in game sens. (Don't use that. Too high Lol)


I reeeeally wish someone would do the math and provide the number at which in-game sensitivity begins to cause pixel skipping at the edge of the screen.

2.7128 is for pixel skipping occurring at the center of the screen (I derived this number from the "Useful DPI Calculator" formula, but I've seen it used by other sources, too), but someone here explained that skipping still happens towards the sides at that level.

People here talk about how much better low DPI is, but never talk about what point high in-game sensitivity is bad. It's frustrating because I often use a higher sensitivity than most (4"/360), which requires a ridiculous in-game multiplier to be fast enough at the holy 400 DPI. To use DPI 1.0 I require 9500 DPI. It's a relevant question that has a definite answer.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> never liked the lighting gimmick of peripherals, love the aesthetic of mine, feels a little retro imo.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-White/dp/B000EXZ0V2


Never a fan of keyboard like those, No F1-F12 simply no go for me. both gaming and coding require F1~F12


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Somewhere in there.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the pixel skipping, can't remember where on OCN that I read that.
> I doubt that 800 DPI on that sensor would feel inferior, though. Performance diminishes at higher dpis in the thousands.


Welp I was looking for hard evidence or concrete statement from logi, This only serves as 'general design problem why use high dpi without consideration of other are bad', it is NOT saying high cpi on DPI 3366/3310 is bad, considered most of those mouse uses dpi within their specification

There has been a lot myth in low dpi setting right now. It generally stems from old architecture like buffer overflow or 8 bit data path and stuff like 'high desktop border' problem and early gaming impel. limitation. most of them are dealed with already.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Welp I was looking for hard evidence or concrete statement from logi, This only serves as 'general design problem why use high dpi without consideration of other are bad', it is NOT saying high cpi on DPI 3366/3310 is bad, considered most of those mouse uses dpi within their specification
> 
> There has been a lot myth in low dpi setting right now. It generally stems from old architecture like buffer overflow or 8 bit data path and stuff like 'high desktop border' problem and early gaming impel. limitation. most of them are dealed with already.


I think there are threads around demonstrating that the 3366 performs differently on different DPI steps. Idk where right now, but I will test my g502 sometime and see.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Never a fan of keyboard like those, No F1-F12 simply no go for me. both gaming and coding require F1~F12


i don't think i've ever experienced a problem with no dedicated f1-f12 in a videogame made in the last 15 years. I had some trouble playing Tie Fighter, i think it was, that had f keys for in game actions. The only problem modern gaming wise has been the lack of dedicated arrow keys which some indie games map to movement and don't allow you to remap. Not going to hold the secondary function key for the duration of a game...


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i don't think i've ever experienced a problem with no dedicated f1-f12 in a videogame made in the last 15 years. I had some trouble playing Tie Fighter, i think it was, that had f keys for in game actions. The only problem modern gaming wise has been the lack of dedicated arrow keys which some indie games map to movement and don't allow you to remap. Not going to hold the secondary function key for the duration of a game...


for coding, it's ok for *nix environment, not not for a lot of ide where they use billions of key inputs including f1 -f12

For gaming, lots of hockey uses tem, quick save, quick load, screen capture etc. hech even origin uses shift + f1 as default overlay, a lot if game also use them as hotkey


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> For gaming, lots of hockey uses tem, quick save, quick load, screen capture etc. hech even origin uses shift + f1 as default overlay, a lot if game also use them as hotkey


I don't know what to say, i'm not coding authority but it looks like a lot of coders like the keyboard a lot.

Its not that you can't input an f key, its that you do so by pressing the Fn key in addition to the number. The numbers being significantly lower then the F keys typically are means you could even argue its easier to use the F keys with this keyboard. I have an Fn key right next to the alt key, so using the Fn functionality feels just at natural as using the alt functionality.

One of the reasons i was having trouble with Tie Fighter was probably because of the inclusion of the joystick, i probably had my hand positioning a lot different then normal.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Lighting is amazing.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> I don't know what to say, i'm not coding authority but it looks like a lot of coders like the keyboard a lot.
> 
> Its not that you can't input an f key, its that you do so by pressing the Fn key in addition to the number. The numbers being significantly lower then the F keys typically are means you could even argue its easier to use the F keys with this keyboard. I have an Fn key right next to the alt key, so using the Fn functionality feels just at natural as using the alt functionality.
> 
> One of the reasons i was having trouble with Tie Fighter was probably because of the inclusion of the joystick, i probably had my hand positioning a lot different then normal.


stuff like require FN key while other KB like 80% can do it without fuzz is simply stupid. IMO HHKB is simply for those who can't live past 1970.

Gaming with full keyboard were a problem because most game requires only a few keys while 100% KBs take too much space and reduce surface for mouse. Gaming keyboards are worst offender as they put even bigger frame and more useless macro keys which is banned from most tournament. but 80% keyboard already solve this problem adequately


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> Sry for the delay, i was busy. I use a FK1 as a example, the principle is the same.
> 
> First you unscrew the PCB from the bottom and remove the PCB so you do not need to worrie while cutting (first & second picture).
> 
> Then you cut the bottom using the shortest way around the red (these keep the minimal distance between PCB and bottom) and blue (screw holes and lower plastic pieces that keep the maximal distance) marked points (see picture #3).
> 
> Before you use hot glue to attach the bottom to the new shell, take some scotch tape for example, to secure the bottom and its position (see picture #5).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pictures!


Thanks so much again! This has been really helpful. Did you remove the scotch tape afterwards? I didn't think the glue would be enough to hold the thing together if you apply it right to the edges of each piece.
I also wonder what you do about the cable.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Welp I was looking for hard evidence or concrete statement from logi, This only serves as 'general design problem why use high dpi without consideration of other are bad', it is NOT saying high cpi on DPI 3366/3310 is bad, considered most of those mouse uses dpi within their specification
> 
> There has been a lot myth in low dpi setting right now. It generally stems from old architecture like buffer overflow or 8 bit data path and stuff like 'high desktop border' problem and early gaming impel. limitation. most of them are dealed with already.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1545382/csgo-m-rawinput-0-drops-samples/150_50#post_23717895

http://www.overclock.net/t/1552305/interesting-article-about-gaming-mouse-myths/0_50
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I think there are threads around demonstrating that the 3366 performs differently on different DPI steps. Idk where right now, but I will test my g502 sometime and see.


Ino's graphs: http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino/0_50


----------



## Mizmo

After 2 weeks I switched back to the Kana v2. I thought I would get used to the shape but I still don't like it and I don't like MB5 either.


----------



## popups

Funny how my post is over looked for the sake of talking about keyboards. I think Logitech looking for a new gaming community manager for their Logitech G products might be a factor in their future designs.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> After 2 weeks I switched back to the Kana v2. I thought I would get used to the shape but I still don't like it and I don't like MB5 either.


Make sure to vote.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1547835/do-you-like-logitech-g303s-shape/0_20


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> After 2 weeks I switched back to the Kana v2. I thought I would get used to the shape but I still don't like it and I don't like MB5 either.


In general MB5(forward) tends to be impossible for fingertip grippers to press naturally. My thumb rests on MB4(back) using the G303 just like it does with every mouse i fingertip my thumb is large enough that i can wrest it on it without actuating it unless i wish to. Generally only palm grippers can hit MB4 and 5 naturally.


----------



## caitengsta

got this and a rog sica coming in soon. really hyped to test out both.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1545382/csgo-m-rawinput-0-drops-samples/150_50#post_23717895
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1552305/interesting-article-about-gaming-mouse-myths/0_50
> Ino's graphs: http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino/0_50


Those post answers nothing.

It only mentions the problem that crank dpi *above the specification* where new generation sensors (3366, 3310 and maybe 3988) offer native CPI up to 5000/12000 without fuzz


----------



## nittwit

Can someone tell me the exact measurements of the G303's pcb? I want to buy 2 to try to put it in my Genius Maurus and my Kinzu v3. Maybe i'll buy another one to try to fit it in my G9X.

I can make a post about the process with photos if anyone wants me to.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1545382/csgo-m-rawinput-0-drops-samples/150_50#post_23717895
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1552305/interesting-article-about-gaming-mouse-myths/0_50
> Ino's graphs: http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino/0_50


I'm confused...the review says it functions perfectly at all DPI's, no?


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Can someone tell me the exact measurements of the G303's pcb? I want to buy 2 to try to put it in my Genius Maurus and my Kinzu v3. Maybe i'll buy another one to try to fit it in my G9X.
> 
> I can make a post about the process with photos if anyone wants me to.


Yes, please, especially with the Kinzu! I may do the same, just not with the v3.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Those post answers nothing.
> 
> It only mentions the problem that crank dpi *above the specification* where new generation sensors (3366, 3310 and maybe 3988) offer native CPI up to 5000/12000 without fuzz


Agreed

Max just post trolls stuff because he doesn't like the 3366.
Cpate's post says absolutely NOTHING about the 3366 becoming inaccurate past a certain DPI.

I use 1800, btw. (matches what the native deathadder was).


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I'm confused...the review says it functions perfectly at all DPI's, no?


It works well on all CPI levels, but at higher CPIs I experienced jitter just like any other high CPI mouse. It was more stable on say... 5000 CPI than any other mouse though.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It works well on all CPI levels, but at higher CPIs I experienced jitter just like any other high CPI mouse. It was more stable on say... 5000 CPI than any other mouse though.


I'm not sure how to interpret your graphs. Would you say the 800 dpi and 500 hz graph shows the best result?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Funny how my post is over looked for the sake of talking about keyboards. I think Logitech looking for a new gaming community manager for their Logitech G products might be a factor in their future designs.
> Make sure to vote.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1547835/do-you-like-logitech-g303s-shape/0_20


Not sure what to say about that. I don't know how much C Pate influences the end products, or what affect a new community manager would have. I did recommend my friend to apply, but I don't think he will








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I'm confused...the review says it functions perfectly at all DPI's, no?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Those post answers nothing.
> 
> It only mentions the problem that crank dpi *above the specification* where new generation sensors (3366, 3310 and maybe 3988) offer native CPI up to 5000/12000 without fuzz


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Agreed
> 
> Max just post trolls stuff because he doesn't like the 3366.
> Cpate's post says absolutely NOTHING about the 3366 becoming inaccurate past a certain DPI.
> 
> I use 1800, btw. (matches what the native deathadder was).


Both this link: http://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/#page-1 and this one: 



 explain that increasing CPI has negative affects on sensor performance.

Ino's graphs show that the 3366 does NOT perform the same on all CPI steps.


----------



## qsxcv

i think that on modern sensors 800dpi is better than 400


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Funny how my post is over looked for the sake of talking about keyboards. I think Logitech looking for a new gaming community manager for their Logitech G products might be a factor in their future designs.


Don't worry, Popups, we still love you even if we don't always read all your posts









Right, my understanding is that a community manager often takes what he hears from the community and refines that into useful information for the team making the products, so obviously the data the community manager does or doesn't filter can impact the product.

But the g303 is the closest thing to what we as enthusiast want that any major peripheral maker is doing. You can argue Zowie mice or maybe Mionix, but those are small fish. Yeah, a lot of us don't like the shape, but i mean so many other things are good, sub 90g, the low click latency in all logitech mice, the super good lmb and rmb clicks, the best sensor on the market, the high build quality, a cable only second to Zowie, a good scroll wheel. I'm not saying you should overlook or get used to the shape, but accept that it is a product very much following the values of enthusiasts, even if you didn't end up liking the shape.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> a cable only second to Zowie


i've never used zowie but the replacement deathadder cable i got from ebay is WAY better than the g303's. i wouldn't be surprised if other mice have better cables than the g303's as well.


----------



## Axaion

am i the only one that prefers the IME 3.0 cable over most other cables, including Zowie?

Feel like the zowie cables tries to roll up into themselves all the time, unless you have a bungee (i dont, and dont want one.)

Did i get 3 defected Zowie mouse cables?


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Did you remove the scotch tape afterwards? I didn't think the glue would be enough to hold the thing together if you apply it right to the edges of each piece.
> I also wonder what you do about the cable.


Ofc you remove the scotch tape after you finish the glueing part. Yes, hot glue is enough if you apply it 1-2 mm and not only at the edges. It would help if you take a knife and make the surface a bit rough where you want to apply the hot glue (smooth surface < rough surface for hot glue).

As for the cable: link


----------



## fatfree

Got the mouse. I have small to medium hands and have no problem with the grip moving from Rival. My grip is a hybrid of palm and claw. My palm is producing enough sweat to not have any problems with G303 slipping away. I guess I am one of those few people, who doesn't have any gripes with its grip :>
It track pretty much like Rival, with maybe lesser LOD. It's been only a few days, I cannot justifiably judge its performance yet.
Might be relevant: main FPS game - CS:GO, MGE/DMG rank, 400 dpi, 2.4 sens, 43.3 cm per 360


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i've never used zowie but the replacement deathadder cable i got from ebay is WAY better than the g303's. i wouldn't be surprised if other mice have better cables than the g303's as well.


obviously, there is no objective best cable. A lot of people here really like zowie cables. I can't say what your replacement cable is like. I will say many mice's cables are kinked because of packaging of the mouse, including Zowie mouse cables. And to get them performing their best, you need to take a hair dryer to them.


----------



## CorruptBE

Might have found a solution to the damn wobbling but it won't be for tonight.

Removing the skates around the sensor reduces wobble but when putting enough pressure on the mouse it creates a "mild scraping".

Sanding down the middle part of the lower body could solve this.

It solves one of my gripes with this mouse: The constant battle vs "The Wobble".


----------



## Brightmist

What wobble?


----------



## fatfree

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What wobble?


----------



## BBHMM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Might have found a solution to the damn wobbling but it won't be for tonight.
> 
> Removing the skates around the sensor reduces wobble but when putting enough pressure on the mouse it creates a "mild scraping".
> 
> Sanding down the middle part of the lower body could solve this.
> 
> It solves one of my gripes with this mouse: The constant battle vs "The Wobble".


What


----------



## CorruptBE

Mine still wobbles like mad, even with the skates on the left/right.


----------



## Atavax

I wonder if its just a matter of manufacturing tolerances. I could only get the g302 to wobble if i tried, and i can't get the g303 to wobble.


----------



## BBHMM

I can't get mine to wobble either, but I'm on a cloth pad.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I'm on a hard pad, no wobble with the center feet removed.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Mine still wobbles like mad, even with the skates on the left/right.


Same here, I even removed the skates around the sensor and it still wobbles. Like I've said before the front and rear skates on mine seem very rounded. Almost bubbled and I think that's the reason that some g302/3s wobble. If it had perfectly flat skates I think it would be fairly stable.

Though the bottom design itself is pretty silly. I'm not sure why you would make the front and rear skates so small and have the sides hang off. It's an inherently unstable design. Looks like it was made to look 'different' for different's sake.


----------



## Melan

So I've received my replacement G303... and no one said anything about returning old unit (actually they specifically told me to keep the old one). Now I have 2 G303. Logitech RMA yo.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> So I've received my replacement G303... and no one said anything about returning old unit (actually they specifically told me to keep the old one). Now I have 2 G303. Logitech RMA yo.


Frankenmouse it!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Frankenmouse it!


I heard CPate browses these forums...


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Frankenmouse it!


Lolno. This mouse fits me fine so no need to do weird stuff with it. I'd rather have one as a backup.


----------



## Melan

Cord, unfortunately, died on old G303. Fault on the same spot where braided layer was damaged. I decided to replace it with zowie's cord (successfully too).

What I also found is this. A *secret message* to all the G302/303 shape haters on the bottom inner shell of the G303.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## white owl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Cord, unfortunately, died on old G303. Fault on the same spot where braided layer was damaged. I decided to replace it with zowie's cord (successfully too).
> 
> What I also found is this. A *secret message* to all the G302/303 shape haters on the bottom inner shell of the G303.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


wat...is that real or a spoof?


----------



## Melan

Oh it's there alright. On the old shell for sure. I won't touch a new one though, I like my warranty.


----------



## caitengsta

Wait so what's the message say?


----------



## Melan

Use Binary to ASCII translator.

Honestly I just got yet another reason to love this mouse.


----------



## caitengsta

Haha just did it. Logitech knows.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

:^)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> Frankenmouse it!


That's what I would do immediately.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Use Binary to ASCII translator.
> 
> Honestly I just got yet another reason to love this mouse.


Or another reason to dislike Logitech.

Kind of rude. Whatever. I will buy a Zowie or Mionix to spite them.

By the way,
Quote:


> "This forum has a real center-of-the-universe complex going on." -SmashTV


----------



## Melan

Well, good thing I don't have this complex then.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, good thing I don't have this complex then.


It's sad to see Logitech stoop that far down (if that photo is real). At least it confirms this forum has an impact.


----------



## Melan

Are you even sure it's not just random? Because it just might be a coincidence. Photo is real.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> What I also found is this. A *secret message* to all the G302/303 shape haters on the bottom inner shell of the G303.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Melan

lmao


----------



## iceskeleton

I found it pretty funny


----------



## MaximilianKohler

It translates to "****" since no one posted it yet.

Sigh. It translates to the first word the kid said in that video before he disconnected.


----------



## Brightmist

So mean Logitech


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It translates to "****" since no one posted it yet.
> 
> Sigh. It translates to the first word the kid said in that video before he disconnected.


I translated it to be sure, and it is short for "shut the f up". LOL!


----------



## Melan

I wonder if there's something similar laser-etched on other new G mice. Not "content" wise, but is in binary.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> So I've received my replacement G303... and no one said anything about returning old unit (actually they specifically told me to keep the old one). Now I have 2 G303. Logitech RMA yo.


Yeah Logitech are cool like that.

Do you want to know what happened when I asked them for a replacement set of mouse feet?

They sent me a new g502 :/
And told me to keep the old one.
(this was before hotline games had their g502 feet out).

I went ahead and bought a 2nd g502 from newegg and now have 3 of them, and a bunch of hotline games mouse feet.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah Logitech are cool like that.
> 
> Do you want to know what happened when I asked them for a replacement set of mouse feet?
> 
> They sent me a new g502 :/
> And told me to keep the old one.
> (this was before hotline games had their g502 feet out).
> 
> I went ahead and bought a 2nd g502 from newegg and now have 3 of them, and a bunch of hotline games mouse feet.


Wow :/ wish I could have had that experience.

After being told to wait for an automated email and replacement device, it's been just a little over a month since I've heard back and Logitech has been ignoring all my communications and follow ups.


----------



## Melan

I think CPate can help with that. You can try Logitech's reddit page too.


----------



## aayman_farzand

lol ***. I requested new mouse feet for my G303 but I highly doubt they'd send me a new mouse.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Wow :/ wish I could have had that experience.
> 
> After being told to wait for an automated email and replacement device, it's been just a little over a month since I've heard back and Logitech has been ignoring all my communications and follow ups.


PM me your case number and I'll discuss with the escalation team tomorrow. Or talk to Christina on the LogitechG subreddit.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> I found it pretty funny


It's funny, yet sad.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's funny, yet sad.


The message is pretty simple: "Don't like shape? Then don't buy mouse" -LogitechG, 2015


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's funny, yet sad.


Sad how? They like a laugh and hid an easter egg


----------



## Melan

Why you people even assume that Logitech would do that in the first place? Why, for example, won't you assume that someone at the factory decided to play a prank? You know, read all those complaints about shape being bad (yet some people, including me, find it absolutely fine) then added extra laser-etching step for mouse base for, let's say first 50 units, to add "hidden message" for all people who complained.
I'm pretty sure if Logitech did check every mouse and did pay attention to SUCH small details, I wouldn't have a mouse with binary on it and you would feel better about yourself because you get all sad about silly prank someone pulled. Grow up.

Edit: Hell, even if I take into account some stuff people said about Logitech, that message makes quite a lot of sense and is very appropriate response.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Sad how? They like a laugh and hid an easter egg


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Why you people even assume that Logitech would do that in the first place? Why, for example, won't you assume that someone at the factory decided to play a prank? You know, read all those complaints about shape being bad (yet some people, including me, find it absolutely fine) then added extra laser-etching step for mouse base for, let's say first 50 units, to add "hidden message" for all people who complained.
> I'm pretty sure if Logitech did check every mouse and did pay attention to SUCH small details, I wouldn't have a mouse with binary on it and you would feel better about yourself because you get all sad about silly prank someone pulled. Grow up.
> 
> Edit: Hell, even if I take into account some stuff people said about Logitech, that message makes quite a lot of sense and is very appropriate response.


It's sad that Logitech would respond to criticisms from the community with a FU. Maybe that is why they are looking for a new community manager. It's not like they got rid of their OEM business to focus on retail and are now sponsoring players.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/598986695107739649%5B%2FURL
You would think Logitech would want to earn positive opinions of their company rather than making space videos to mock statements made on the internet and telling people to shut their mouths with binary.

True, some people find it "fine."

http://www.overclock.net/t/1547835/do-you-like-logitech-g303s-shape/0_20

You're telling people to grow up when Logitech is the one telling people to shut the F up? Okay... That makes sense.


----------



## CPate

It is an Easter Egg intended to help you send a message to your opponents. It is not a message to our customers. That would be silly.

It is also not the first time we've done something in this vein.


----------



## Melan

Oh look, it's that "he started it" argument.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Oh look, it's that "he started it" argument.


You sad?


----------



## Melan

No, just pointing out that you need to grow up.

Edit: Also CPate pointed out what that binary is about. Don't see why to continue this argument.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You're telling people to grow up when Logitech is the one telling people to shut the F up? Okay... That makes sense.


That's how it's like to communicate here on OCN now. Too many *****ing about whatnot, even though I despise their current range of input devices I still understand their behaviour.

There's a limit to always keep turning the cheek and getting it slapped constantly by the same people here, hence they have to respond accordingly.

True I'm no longer their Number ONE Fanboy but too keep on slagging them off within their own forum space is kind of pointless because they'll simply switch off.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No, just pointing out that you need to grow up.


You obviously don't understand... I am not emotionally harmed by some letters. It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with Logitech making themselves look bad. CPate says it wasn't intended to insult critics, maybe that's the truth. It doesn't help sales if a company has a certain attitude, especially when their products have come under heavy criticism from some people. I'm just saying.

I don't "need to grow up" because I am not the one that loves the mouse more because it has an "easter egg" that tells people to shut their mouths.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> That's how it's like to communicate here on OCN now. Too many *****ing about whatnot, even though I despise their current range of input devices I still understand their behaviour.
> 
> There's a limit to always keep turning the cheek and getting it slapped constantly by the same people here, hence they have to respond accordingly.
> 
> True I'm no longer their Number ONE Fanboy but too keep on slagging them off within their own forum space is kind of pointless because they'll simply switch off.


Whether it was a joke or a statement to critics, it can instigate even more comments.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Sad how? They like a laugh and hid an easter egg


He hates logitech that is.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> He hates logitech that is.


Naw... I bought their mouse. I tested it. I didn't like the shape and cord, I sent it back because of that. I gave my honest opinion on it, both good and bad. No different than what I have done with Zowie, Razer and Mionix.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1351759/zowie-fk/1300_20#post_20695903
http://www.overclock.net/t/1469836/mionix-avior-7000-first-impressions-review/1780_20#post_23838154


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Naw... I bought their mouse. I tested it. I didn't like the shape and cord, I sent it back because of that. I gave my honest opinion on it, both good and bad. No different than what I have done with Zowie, Razer and Mionix.


Everyone in this forum can feel your hatred over their screen. It's simply an easter egg. Anyone would laugh and put it behind.be it from Razer, SS, Zowie. Only you made it a big deal


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Wow :/ wish I could have had that experience.
> 
> After being told to wait for an automated email and replacement device, it's been just a little over a month since I've heard back and Logitech has been ignoring all my communications and follow ups.


Their web RMA system has been broken for like...over a year now. I would suggest just go through their phone system. Works like a charm here in taiwan.


----------



## Ino.

Don't tell me anyone is offended by that Easter Egg.... I mean, really?
That's like the triggered tumbler folks that can't take a joke at all if it's remotely related to any topic they take part in.


----------



## Derp

S T F U hidden on the inside of the shell is meant for your opponents? Nope, not buying that line even a little bit.


----------



## Brightmist

Who would it be meant for ?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> S T F U hidden on the inside of the shell is meant for your opponents? Nope, not buying that line even a little bit.


It's pretty common for competitor to study their mouse.

95% of mouse buyer won't even tried to remove the mousefeet


----------



## white owl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> It's pretty common for competitor to study their mouse.
> 
> 95% of mouse buyer won't even tried to remove the mousefeet


Should have said:
01000111
01010100
01000110
01001111


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> It's pretty common for competitor to study their mouse.
> 
> 95% of mouse buyer won't even tried to remove the mousefeet


The message being there isn't the point, it's the message itself. Why say S T F U?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *white owl*
> 
> Should have said:
> 01000111
> 01010100
> 01000110
> 01001111


This would make more sense.


----------



## zeflow

Honestly people who cares. The message is probably to the haters...not customers. Calm down


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's funny, yet sad.


It's funny because it's sad.


----------



## Falkentyne

Chris Pate and Logitech are cool like that.

well even though this is the g303 thread, even after they sent me a replacement g502 after enquiring about spare mouse feet (that's why I bought another G502 from newegg as a backup (Tbh I did the same thing for the deathadder 3G's and BE's.....even had two DB plasmas at one point). I think I got the replacement from Logi after the newegg purchase though.

The first g502 I got from best buy, one day after release day. Last one in the shop. Mouse wheel seems flaky now (probably dirty and I haven't opened the mouse up to clean the opticals) and the sides are so melted from finger grip it looks like I took a blowtorch to the rubber









At least I have 3 g502's to test the Teflon Tiger gaming 1mm feet and some more hotline games feet...


----------



## UglyCheater

Guys what mousepad would be perfect for this mouse? Need to buy new one anyways.


----------



## ranseed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> S T F U hidden on the inside of the shell is meant for your opponents? Nope, not buying that line even a little bit.


Pretty much.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UglyCheater*
> 
> Guys what mousepad would be perfect for this mouse? Need to buy new one anyways.


It seems to work best on darker pads with no patterns/art on them. I personally use a Roccat Hiro which I highly recommend if you have the money for it.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Naw...


Its been painfully obvious for a while.







Take your agenda and shove it.


----------



## Atavax

perfectly human to have a bias. nothing wrong with it. If popups bias is so obvious to you, maybe that just means Popups is being more honest then most of us.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> perfectly human to have a bias. nothing wrong with it. If popups bias is so obvious to you, maybe that just means Popups is being more honest then most of us.


I am straightforward and honest, that's my "agenda." Just look at all the stuff I said about Zowie Gear, yet I buy their products and continue to criticize them. Some people here take constructive criticisms as a personal attack.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Did anyone do a click test performance with any other mice?

I just did it against my G402, the 402 won almost all the time by 0.6ms-30ms, usually by 16-18ms.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Did anyone do a click test performance with any other mice?
> 
> I just did it against my G402, the 402 won almost all the time by 0.6ms-30ms, usually by 16-18ms.


I can tell you from my HMB results that its roughly the same as my G400S and G100S. Its slightly faster than my DA 2013.


----------



## Melan

I might test clicks against my FK1 (same way rafa did) but I need to wait for hyperglides. Used up last feet yesterday.


----------



## Atavax

So people find an insulting message and some assume its meant for them. Someone behind the writing of the message claims its not meant for us, but their competitors. People disregard the writer's claim, and continue to assume its meant for them. This is silly.

A little disappointed with the message. Its not very clever, and its not a positive message either. I mean, because it wasn't clever, it didn't seem like it was made in jest. If a negative comment wasn't made in jest, it doesn't seem like a good message to be sending around regardless of the intended recipient.

But i guess i don't know the people in the industry. Maybe the cleverness was simply the location of it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Did anyone do a click test performance with any other mice?
> 
> I just did it against my G402, the 402 won almost all the time by 0.6ms-30ms, usually by 16-18ms.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2420_20#post_23851066
http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/560_20#post_23887835


----------



## Melan

Please stop with these human benchmark tests. Just. Stop.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Please stop with these human benchmark tests. Just. Stop.


Why? I am faster with the G303 than other mice. It's a factor in-game. I had to change my timing because I was much faster with the G303 than the AM. Avior and FK. As much as a design determines times, it determines consistency as well.

If a person is getting 185ms times with a certain mouse and I am getting 145ms times with another, that's something I notice/value.


----------



## fatfree

When someone reads just about any piece of information, there is a chance to get offended by it. But we aren't a bunch of lines in program's code to get triggered by eligible conditions, we have a choice, choice to not get offended. Super simple stuff.
Also a lot of people are still stuck with child's attitude: parents feed me, wipe my ass and do anything at my whim. It's only natural that such people think that the world revolves around them and everything said is directed to them.


----------



## iceskeleton

Well he didn't even find it himself anyway, so it wasn't directed at him clearly


----------



## Melan

First of all, it doesn't even show how many times you've failed. As in "premature" clicks. Second, it's not so hard to predict when to click. Third, I already tried that with old batch FK1, which makes 303 about 2ms faster. We both know that this is bs.
You want results? Use same method rafa did (for comparison at least). Until then, it's what most people do in this section which is messing around.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why? I am faster with the G303 than other mice. It's a factor in-game. I had to change my timing because I was much faster with the G303 than the AM. Avior and FK. As much as a design determines times, it determines consistency as well.
> 
> If a person is getting 185ms times with a certain mouse and I am getting 145ms times with another, that's something I notice/value.


don't you think shape plays a bit of a role in this? People's hands are different, how they will hold each mouse is different, how the shape will effect the reaction time should be different, shouldn't it? While you benchmarks might be good for yourself, shouldn't they be worthless for others?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UglyCheater*
> 
> Guys what mousepad would be perfect for this mouse? Need to buy new one anyways.


Any cloth pad should be fine. Plain, darker colors are typically better. If you're in the US, check Staples for the supermat. If not, check your local electronics stores.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Any cloth pad should be fine. Plain, darker colors are typically better. If you're in the US, check Staples for the supermat. If not, check your local electronics stores.


Wouldnt QcK+ be a better choice for less?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Wouldnt QcK+ be a better choice for less?


I think the mat he means is sold since forever, even from before people were interested in mouse pads. If it's the one I am thinking of, it is cheap and large. It's related to the pads you would buy for dot matrix printers ages ago. You were putting the printers on those mats because their noise would murder you if you'd put them directly onto a wooden table (they went RATATATATATATATATA when printing).

In any case, the later gaming mouse pads are basically all rip-off as you are paying for a brand, while this mat might be getting produced and sold since before gaming stuff existed.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

qck is inferior to the supermat in terms of surface. The friction levels change over time. Whereas my supermat is exactly the same as it was 5+ years ago. The balance between enough friction for stopping power but not too much to hinder small movements, is close to perfect on the supermat.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> qck is inferior to the supermat in terms of surface. The friction levels change over time. Whereas my supermat is exactly the same as it was 5+ years ago. The balance between enough friction for stopping power but not too much to hinder small movements, is close to perfect on the supermat.


Apparently supermats aren't made the same way so there's not point talking about this mousepad.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/500_50#post_23901805


----------



## MasterBash

Got a 30% off site wide except for g910, harmony stuff and master mx.

I might buy the mouse, no idea yet. I am thinkinggggggggg about it


----------



## marduke83

Sorry if it has been brought up before, but has there been a confirmed release for Australia?


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marduke83*
> 
> Sorry if it has been brought up before, but has there been a confirmed release for Australia?


I would also like to know this. It still hasn't appeared on Logitech's Australian site or at any local retailers. It would be nice to know if they have no intention on releasing it here, so I can just order it off Amazon and accept the additional cost.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marduke83*
> 
> Sorry if it has been brought up before, but has there been a confirmed release for Australia?


No, try to tweet @logitech_au or their new facebook.com//LogitechG.AU
There has been no indication of them having it for australia. Others have said online stores like pccasegear have asked logitech when the g303 will become available and I think they got no reply.

But an interesting thing is that this is shown here








http://support.logitech.com/en_au/product/gaming-mouse-g303

probably automated though


----------



## Dalx

Hi guys, i bought this mouse recently but i dont really like the shape ... anyone could tell me what mouse use the same shape and weight like DELL ms111-p but with a good sensor ??

thx


----------



## iceskeleton

g100s probably


----------



## marduke83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> No, try to tweet @logitech_au or their new facebook.com//LogitechG.AU
> There has been no indication of them having it for australia. Others have said online stores like pccasegear have asked logitech when the g303 will become available and I think they got no reply.
> 
> But an interesting thing is that this is shown here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://support.logitech.com/en_au/product/gaming-mouse-g303
> 
> probably automated though


I have tried several times on twitter and FB no replies... I guess if pccasegear isn't getting replies either then there's no hope.. lol


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dalx*
> 
> Hi guys, i bought this mouse recently but i dont really like the shape ... anyone could tell me what mouse use the same shape and weight like DELL ms111-p but with a good sensor ??
> 
> thx


Abyssus, Zowie Mico, ROG Sica, Aurora and G100s


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G100S is probably the way to go seeing how the shape is based on their line of office/OEM products.

Why cant Logitech just use shapes like those that are proven to be ergonomic and loved by 99% of people.


----------



## nickname

Money. Now.. 01110011011101000110011001110101


----------



## Longasc

So G100s shape it should be. Okay.
CSL SM-620. Give it a try before buying the same mouse as pro gaming mouse for 10x the price.


----------



## iceskeleton

what sensor does that mouse use?


----------



## caitengsta

Idk I got the mouse like a week ago and now I'm kind of getting used to it. Though the g100s was probably the best mouse I've ever used shape wise.


----------



## nittwit

Don't buy a mouse because of the sensor.

Every sensor should perfom the same, some just have higher malfunction speed, acceleration, jitter cuz of bad qc, etc. Don't trust any of the people saying "hurr you should buy x mouse, cuz it has y sensor, and it's the best feeling sensor ever durr."


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Don't buy a mouse because of the sensor.
> 
> Every sensor should perfom the same, some just have higher malfunction speed/acceleration/jitter cuz of bad qc. Don't trust any of the people saying "hurr you should buy x mouse, cuz it has y sensor, and it's the best feeling sensor ever durr."


What's wrong with them saying the sensor feels good? It's your own opinion if you can tolerate the shape of the mouse. I think the 303 feels more responsive than my FK1. The FK1 almost felt a little sluggish. After testing with aimbooster.com for about an hour (I rather not load up a game to test, to many variables), I was constantly out performing the FK1 with my 303. Is the FK1 a bad mouse? No. I actually like Zowie mice. Could the shape be the reason I did better? Possibly. I think the 303 shape is okay... I don't think it hinders my play at all, but I don't love it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

It could be because the FK1 you have is from the batches with click latency issues.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It could be because the FK1 you have is from the batches with click latency issues.


That could be true... Zowie RMA is pretty awful isn't it? Wonder if I should even bother.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> That could be true... Zowie RMA is pretty awful isn't it? Wonder if I should even bother.


I would say go for it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 rubber bits mod


----------



## Cloudy

How's the 3366's tracking on bright blue surfaces?


----------



## MasterBash

My 30% off ends today. Is it worth upgrading from g302 to g303? I rarely hit the malfunction speed, but it happens.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> My 30% off ends today. Is it worth upgrading from g302 to g303? I rarely hit the malfunction speed, but it happens.


Yes because the 3366 just feels "better"


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> My 30% off ends today. Is it worth upgrading from g302 to g303? I rarely hit the malfunction speed, but it happens.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes because the 3366 just feels "better"
Click to expand...

P L A C E B O
L
A
C
E
B
O

I'd like to see you identify the 3366 and the AM010 in a blind test. You wouldn't be able to do it.


----------



## Melan

Yeah, no. "Feels" are irrelevant here. If you don't hit malfunction speeds on 302, there's no point for upgrade.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> P L A C E B O
> L
> A
> C
> E
> B
> O
> 
> I'd like to see you identify the 3366 and the AM010 in a blind test. You wouldn't be able to do it.


Well, that one is actually quite easy, altough Hard Surfaces an low CPI make it harder, they are distinguishable just by Cursorpath.


----------



## qsxcv

you mean like how smooth slowly drawn lines are in paint?


----------



## MasterBash

lol. Code doesnt work for the G303, although its not included in the list of excluded products.

Excludes MX Master Wireless Mouse, Harmony Products, G910 Orion Spark RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, Bemo Social Camera, UE (Ultimate Ears) Products, B2B Products and spare parts.

Code is now expired...

Enjoy. Let people know if you used the code.

EDIT: Removed expired code so people dont waste time trying it out.


----------



## 0verpowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1507448/top-available-hard-cloth-mouse-pads/500_50#post_23901805


Just picked one of these up in black, model # 15S07. Feels great so far, just enough friction. Seems to attract a lot of dust though.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0verpowered*
> 
> Seems to attract a lot of dust though.


ALL Polyester based surfaces attract dust due to their static charge







.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> My 30% off ends today. Is it worth upgrading from g302 to g303? I rarely hit the malfunction speed, but it happens.


Yes

For the simple reasons:

You don't have to worry about the shape considering you like the G302.
It's the same thing but on steroids.
Hitting the malfunction speed could have subconscious effect where you keep yourself "in check" sometimes. Not having to do this will allow you to simply "unleash".


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> P L A C E B O
> L
> A
> C
> E
> B
> O
> 
> I'd like to see you identify the 3366 and the AM010 in a blind test. You wouldn't be able to do it.


rotfl.

i could see the difference just lifting the mouse up


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> you mean like how smooth slowly drawn lines are in paint?


You dont need paint in particular to see difference, just the cursor itself is enough, with paint i wouldnt call it a blind test anymore anyway.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Yes
> 
> For the simple reasons:
> 
> You don't have to worry about the shape considering you like the G302.
> It's the same thing but on steroids.
> Hitting the malfunction speed could have subconscious effect where you keep yourself "in check" sometimes. Not having to do this will allow you to simply "unleash".


Pretty much this


----------



## Melan

Keeping your self in check only applies when user does reach malfunction speeds. There's nothing to "unleash" if you don't reach the limit. Simple as that.

There's no point in spending 70$/Euros on minor performance increase which people explain by "feels". I had both 302 and 303 and I don't see any difference beside LOD and malfunction speed. Whatever others feel doesn't apply to you in any way.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Buy G303 and sell the G302 back.


----------



## Melan

No one will buy this mouse. 20$ at best if you're lucky.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> Don't buy a mouse because of the sensor.
> 
> Every sensor should perfom the same, some just have higher malfunction speed, acceleration, jitter cuz of bad qc, etc. Don't trust any of the re*tards saying "hurr you should buy x mouse, cuz it has y sensor, and it's the best feeling sensor ever durr."


That's a lot of nonsense mate. Sensor performance varies drastically, beyond malfunction speed. It even varies among mice of the same brand/model.

Claims that all sensors perform the same have already been debunked via mousetester.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> P L A C E B O
> L
> A
> C
> E
> B
> O
> 
> I'd like to see you identify the 3366 and the AM010 in a blind test. You wouldn't be able to do it.


It depends what game(s) you're playing and what level you're playing them at.

There is almost unanimous agreement that the FinalMouse sensor and the MLT04 have a "rawness" that almost no other mouse has.


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> rotfl.
> 
> i could see the difference just lifting the mouse up


Can you please at least use your brain to think about how such a test would be run?

No, you can't lift the mouse to measure the lift off distance.
No, you can't open mousetester.exe to measure the tracking speeds.
No, you can't move either mouse faster than 2 m/s.
Can't even draw lines in paint.

The only thing you'd be allowed to do is move each mouse around in your game for 10 seconds.

You would not be able to identify the sensor.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> The only thing you'd be allowed to do is move each mouse around in your game for 10 seconds.
> 
> You would not be able to identify the sensor.


10 second limit is absurd. Depending on the game you'd need at least 15 minutes. But to be thorough I usually take a few days, then wait a week or so and test again.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Keeping your self in check only applies when user does reach malfunction speeds. There's nothing to "unleash" if you don't reach the limit. Simple as that.


idk, it doesn't affect everyone, but knowing I will hit a malfunction speed can act like a "psychological" blockade to me, it's as if I have to treat my mouse like a porcelain doll.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> P L A C E B O
> L
> A
> C
> E
> B
> O
> 
> I'd like to see you identify the 3366 and the AM010 in a blind test. You wouldn't be able to do it.


Test me, I bet I can.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> Test me, I bet I can.


It's rather easy if you can hit 4+ m/s...

Also:



One of my annoyances solved (the middle was actually closer to the mousepad then the other 2 skates :s)


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> It's rather easy if you can hit 4+ m/s...
> 
> Also:
> 
> [...]
> 
> One of my annoyances solved (the middle was actually closer to the mousepad then the other 2 skates :s)


I had the same problem on my G302. That area was scratching on the mousepad, and just taking off those two tiny feets there didn't reduce height enough.

Except, I cut into it with a sharp blade and didn't do it super ugly like you did...


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yeah, no. "Feels" are irrelevant here. If you don't hit malfunction speeds on 302, there's no point for upgrade.


The fact the Logitech hasn't disclosed how many FPS the AM010 does means it's pretty low, lower than older designs where it was actually advertised.


----------



## Melan

No, it means that only Logitech knows how much fps AM010 does. How the hell did you even come up with this?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I had the same problem on my G302. That area was scratching on the mousepad, and just taking off those two tiny feets there didn't reduce height enough.
> 
> Except, I cut into it with a sharp blade and didn't do it super ugly like you did...


I just sanded it down with some good ole sanding paper


----------



## AnimalK

I prefer the tracking of the g302 over the g303. The g302 to me feels very raw and precise. The g303 to me feels like it's manipulating my cursor.


----------



## Melan

Spooky stuff.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I prefer the tracking of the g302 over the g303. The g302 to me feels very raw and precise. The g303 to me feels like it's manipulating my cursor.


You should probably turn off surface tuning. It could be that you're not used to the extremely low LOD which I had issues with too initially.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No, it means that only Logitech knows how much fps AM010 does. How the hell did you even come up with this?


What the hell is that even supposed to mean?!








Fps value is always disclosed on gaming sensors except in this particular case and when asked about it they just purposely ignore the question.
Marketing-wise it would make little sense to advertise a new mouse replacing one advertised with ~6400fps, when it has less fps (g400s-g402).
The low tracking speed is also a big giveaway for that, plus users have reported it feeling similar to other low fps sensors.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> What the hell is that even supposed to mean?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fps value is always disclosed on gaming sensors except in this particular case and when asked about it they just purposely ignore the question.
> Marketing-wise it would make little sense to advertise a new mouse replacing one advertised with ~6400fps, when it has less fps (g400s-g402).
> The low tracking speed is also a big giveaway for that, plus users have reported it feeling similar to other low fps sensors.


FPS value is only disclosed on known designs, but not on the AM010 or the 3366. The FPS for the 3366 was mentioned by Logitech engineers some time ago, but it's not used to promote the sensor.


----------



## Derp

The G303 is $20 off right now at Amazon for those interested.


----------



## 0verpowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> rotfl.
> 
> i could see the difference just lifting the mouse up


Agreed, my G100s jitters noticeably just lifting it a couple mm off the pad. It's almost unusuable in a game.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I prefer the tracking of the g302 over the g303. The g302 to me feels very raw and precise. The g303 to me feels like it's manipulating my cursor.


CLOWN CURSOR !


----------



## Cloudy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The G303 is $20 off right now at Amazon for those interested.


I bought mine near the 14th, which I assumed I was way past the date of partial refunds. I emailed Amazon about a partial refund, got a response in 15 minutes and $20 back. Thanks for saving me some money.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> The fact the Logitech hasn't disclosed how many FPS the AM010 does means it's pretty low, lower than older designs where it was actually advertised.


based on staring at mousetester plots i estimated it to be ~4850


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No, it means that only Logitech knows how much fps AM010 does. How the hell did you even come up with this?


Deductive reasoning.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I prefer the tracking of the g302 over the g303. The g302 to me feels very raw and precise. The g303 to me feels like it's manipulating my cursor.


The 3366 in the G303 appears to track every small movement you make. As humans we will make errors as we try to move a mouse to the intended position. Therefore, the 3366 sensor will feel like it is "worse" than a 3310 or AM010. That's why it is sometimes better to use 500Hz or 250Hz.


----------



## Melan

It's not deductive reasoning. It's just plain stupid guess.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Spooky stuff.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It's not deductive reasoning. It's just plain stupid guess.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No, just pointing out that *you need to grow up.*


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The FPS for the 3366 was mentioned by Logitech engineers some time ago,


so what is it?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> so what is it?


I think, 12,500 FPS.


----------



## Melan

You're still bitter popups? Don't worry about that so much, we still love you.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> You should probably turn off surface tuning. It could be that you're not used to the extremely low LOD which I had issues with too initially.


I love my LOD to be as low as possible. One of the main reasons why I love my FK1 and EC2-A is that they have very low LOD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> CLOWN CURSOR !


Say it ain't so doc!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Deductive reasoning.
> The 3366 in the G303 appears to track every small movement you make. As humans we will make errors as we try to move a mouse to the intended position. Therefore, the 3366 sensor will feel like it is "worse" than a 3310 or AM010. That's why it is sometimes better to use 500Hz or 250Hz.


This forum seems to agree that the S3988 implementation in my DeathAdder 2013 has a very high fps as well (12k?) and I play just fine with it after adding some grip tape on the sides.

I like the g30x shape a lot and I love the buttons and scroll wheel. I just can't adjust to the tracking no matter what settings I use.


----------



## Melan

I had to take my time to figure out what polling rate to use on 302/303. 500hz felt more controlled for me, when 1khz literally showed me how badly I aim lol. It just picked up smallest movement unlike lower rates. I got used to it in the end and I'm very pleased with the result tbh.

By the way does anyone have problems with mousewheel click? It's pretty hard to click it without scrolling the wheel. Had to remap CPI button to MB3 for easier usage.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I had to take my time to figure out what polling rate to use on 302/303. 500hz felt more controlled for me, when 1khz literally showed me how badly I aim lol. It just picked up smallest movement unlike lower rates. I got used to it in the end and I'm very pleased with the result tbh.
> 
> By the way does anyone have problems with mousewheel click? It's pretty hard to click it without scrolling the wheel. Had to remap CPI button to MB3 for easier usage.


OK I'll give 500Hz another shot.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I had to take my time to figure out what polling rate to use on 302/303. 500hz felt more controlled for me, when 1khz literally showed me how badly I aim lol. It just picked up smallest movement unlike lower rates. I got used to it in the end and I'm very pleased with the result tbh.
> 
> By the way does anyone have problems with mousewheel click? It's pretty hard to click it without scrolling the wheel. Had to remap CPI button to MB3 for easier usage.


So are you using 1000hz because it performs worse or is it just preference?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> As humans we will make errors as we try to move a mouse to the intended position. Therefore, the 3366 sensor will feel like it is "worse" than a 3310 or AM010. That's why it is sometimes better to use 500Hz or 250Hz.


not sure how this makes any sense when the final in-game frame rate is 200-300 or so.


----------



## Melan

I've set 1000hz because it will perform better in the long run. I got used to it, got better control of my own movements/hand and in the end it resulted in improved aim for me. Now I don't see much point in going back to more "controlled" 500hz rate.


----------



## Falkentyne

Just curious, guys
Why not try 1000hz with "angle snapping" enabled?
See if that makes a difference.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Just curious, guys
> Why not try 1000hz with "angle snapping" enabled?
> See if that makes a difference.


I'll give it a try tmw.


----------



## Melan

I can't even get angle snapping to work. There's just no difference in cursor behavior.


----------



## acid_reptile

Anglesnapping On/Off is useless. There's always an optimal spot where it feels the best. I wish mouse manufacturers start to realize it.

Ql Accel filter changes it in 50 steps. Go for it.


----------



## Melan

I'd rather have Logitech implement same angle snapping mechanic like they had with G500. From off to 10 which snaps it so hard you won't be drawing anything that's not straight.

Edit: looked up old set point screenshots. Apparently all they had was the same "tick for angle snapping" option. Weird, because I remember it being very aggressive thing.


----------



## povohat

G303 is now $49.99 on Amazon.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It's not deductive reasoning. It's just plain stupid guess.


It's called educated guess, thank you.
Calling stupid something you don't understand is typical of people who don't learn.

@Ino.

We want them official numberz ...!!!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> based on staring at mousetester plots i estimated it to be ~4850


How do you test that? O.O


----------



## qsxcv

http://esreality.com/post/2674608/new-gaming-mouse-development-part-3/#pid2703355

for what it's worth, this is what i initially found about the g303's framerate
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1490#post_23690684
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1510#post_23691033

12500 sounds reasonable but i have no idea why it's using a variable framerate


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> G303 is now $49.99 on Amazon.


Yeah I mentioned this a couple pages back. Unfortunately taking $20 off the price doesn't change the shape.


----------



## povohat

I don't mind the G303 shape so much (I have a G302), but avoided buying it until now because it would have ended up exceeding $100 AUD to have it shipped from Amazon. I have given up waiting for it to appear in Australia and this price point seems reasonable to me. Having said that, unless the sensor blows me away, i'll probably keep using the G100s. As a mouse enthusiast it is my imperative to buy mice that I use for a week then store indefinitely.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> As a mouse enthusiast it is my imperative to buy mice that I use for a week then store indefinitely.


One of us. One of us.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I hope there will be a firmware update to lock the sensor's frame rate at max. I would love to see how more responsive it is.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I hope there will be a firmware update to lock the sensor's frame rate at max. I would love to see how more responsive it is.


Does this variable sensor frame rate also apply for the G502?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Does this variable sensor frame rate also apply for the G502?


I dont know but I wouldnt be surprised if it did.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Maybe this can be asked during the PCPR Live event on the 27th.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Unfortunately taking $20 off the price doesn't change the shape.












You ruined my dream.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ruined my dream.


When it comes to this version YES, you shall have any and all dreams destroyed and ruined.

In fact you may walk away safe in the knowledge that Logitech failed to take another customer into their world of deceit and lies, aided by their minions







.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> When it comes to this version YES, you shall have any and all dreams destroyed and ruined.
> 
> In fact you may walk away safe in the knowledge that Logitech failed to take another customer into their world of deceit and lies, aided by their minions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*


_it's not designed to my liking? Then it's the worst abomination possible and the company does it on purpose to harm its customers!_


----------



## detto87

Knowing that Logitech will continue to use and maybe even improve the 3366, I'll hang out with the G303 until there's sth better (3366 + good shape). I don't know if Logitech will deliver that shape or if in the near future the 3366 is used by another company. But till then I'll probably end my mouse hunt. So far, every mouse is flawed, so I gain nothing in constantly trying buying switching.


----------



## 0verpowered

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> I don't mind the G303 shape so much (I have a G302), but avoided buying it until now because it would have ended up exceeding $100 AUD to have it shipped from Amazon. I have given up waiting for it to appear in Australia and this price point seems reasonable to me. Having said that, unless the sensor blows me away, i'll probably keep using the G100s. As a mouse enthusiast it is my imperative to buy mice that I use for a week then store indefinitely.


I bought a G100s just to try out the AM010, and, the G303 is what I stuck with. The clicks, sensor, wheel, and overall feel is better, in my opinion. I can't stand the lift off distance of the G100s, even with tape mod.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Heads up for anyone looking to replace the mouse feet with G302 one.

I bought Tiger Gaming Carbon feet and they don't seem to fit the grooves properly. It causes the mouse to make a lot of noise and vibrations during movement. The fit is not perfect, I can get the mouse to wobble slightly with it installed but not with the Logitech stock feet.

At first I thought that's just how the feet is, but I slid only the feet across the pad and the noise was normal. When I put extra pressure on one corner, the noise was similar to what I had when the feet were installed on the mouse.


----------



## qsxcv

earlier i noticed that the g303 has a sleep mode; if you lift it up and look at the sensor's led, you'll notice it becomes dim after a couple seconds.

and sure enough this is what i see from my oscilloscope+photodiode setup

the led is strobed at ~1030hz with ~10% duty cycle

if i place a finger near the sensor to get it to go out of the sleep mode, the led becomes strobed at around 8700hz with nearly full duty cycle

then after a few seconds, around 4180hz with ~50% duty cycle

and after a few more seconds, it goes back to the 1030hz sleep mode

the 4180hz mode is probably related to what i said here:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the transition at 1.1m/s is actually very clear
> 
> it's not acceleration, i'm 99% sure it's just a variable sensor framerate. i very roughly estimate that in the red region it's around 4100, in the green region it's around 4900, and the blue region to be >11000


----------



## detto87

I appreciate the effort. But could you explain what that means for the end user?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I appreciate the effort. But could you explain what that means for the end user?


It means the mouse doesn't always perform at top performance. It also means there will be variances to how the mouse "feels" depending on how you move it.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It means the mouse doesn't always perform at top performance.


Yes, but what does top performance mean here? CPI variances? Acceleration? Jitter?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It also means there will be variances to how the mouse "feels" depending on how you move it.


That is quite logical. Applying pressure on a soft pad to "sink in" to get steadier/slower/controlled movements. I see that as an advantage though: Pinpoint stopping is sth that a surface alone cannot provide if you think about it. If you apply pressure for a very abrupt and precise stopping, you will be more precise by doing that on a softer surface.


----------



## qsxcv

it doesn't really matter though it's kind of weird that gaming mice have power saving features...

mlt04 has sleep mode of ~575hz
wmo (x80...):

ie 3.0 legends edition:


----------



## Axaion

In microsofts defense the Intellimice werent marketed as Gaming mice though.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> it doesn't really matter though it's kind of weird that gaming mice have power saving features...


There is sleep and variable FPS / burst options in the SROM. Not all gaming mice use them. You can imagine what effect it has on tracking if they are used.

The Rival had used those options on release. Fom what I heard, they stopped using it in later firmware updates after they got complaints about tracking/feel.

Razer markets some of their mice as always on.

I am not surprised to see Logitech using those options. I did see that type of behavior on graphs people posted. I just didn't have any evidence [oscilloscope data] to show people I wasn't just picking/hating on Logitech for no reason.

I think Rafa used an oscilloscope to see what the frame rate of a sensor is. Can you do that for the 3366?

http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2015/05/blog-post_23.html
http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2014/06/rivalpmw3310dhled.html


----------



## qsxcv

see last comment of your second link









i think it should be possible to figure something out


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> see last comment of your second link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think it should be possible to figure something out


So none of the pins would be of use for figuring out the FPS?


----------



## qsxcv

probably not.

for avago/pixart sensors you can read a register via spi to figure it out but that'd be a pain in the ass as the 3366 has no public datasheet

edit:
nevermind
ripped apart my g303. there are two pins (2nd bottom left and 2nd bottom right) which seem to correspond to the internal led

highest frequency i saw was ~11700hz

i saw four modes:
1. ~1030hz, activated when no motion for several seconds
2. ~4130hz, activated by normal slow movement
3. ~4950hz, activated by medium speed (~1m/s) steady movement
4. continuously tunable mode between 8600hz and 11700hz, activated when lifted above the LOD


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> 4. continuously tunable mode between 8600hz and 11700hz, activated when lifted above the LOD


I don't understand.
What do you mean lifted above the LOD?
Why is it trying to run full speed when lifted above the LOD?
Does that mean the sensor is trying to strengthen its signal to resume tracking?


----------



## qsxcv

when you lift it up so that it doesn't track anymore...
i have no idea why they do what they do.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Does that mean the sensor is trying to strengthen its signal to resume tracking?


Most likely the other way around. It's making sure that it's in the air...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ripped apart my g303. there are two pins (2nd bottom left and 2nd bottom right) which seem to correspond to the internal led
> 
> highest frequency i saw was ~11700hz
> 
> i saw four modes:
> 1. ~1030hz, activated when no motion for several seconds
> 2. ~4130hz, activated by normal slow movement
> 3. ~4950hz, activated by medium speed (~1m/s) steady movement
> 4. continuously tunable mode between 8600hz and 11700hz, activated when lifted above the LOD


What does that equate to in frames? Did you test the AM010 as well? Do you have a 3988?

I guess that's why at certain speeds the diagonal accuracy isn't impressive compared to some 3310 or 3090 mice.







That's one reason I don't like rest modes or variable FPS.

12000 FPS max, without bursting, sounds about right for the 3366. That's how it feels to me.


----------



## qsxcv

it is the framerate since the led is synchronized to each frame's exposure period

am010 uses dc led control (at least on the g100s) so the only way to directly measure the framerate is by reverse engineering the sensor's register addresses and
i estimated 4850 from mousetester. and my mousetester estimates for 3366 have matched up with the direct measurements so make what you will of that

for my torq x5 which has 3988, it's also variable framerate but it has no sleep mode. i measured it but don't remember. i think the minimum was around 4000hz
if you look at its mousetester graphs you'll see that it doesn't transition between framerates as smoothly as the g303 does; there are

ninox aurora's 3090 is 6448hz when there's enough light on the sensor i.e. pretty much always unless you lift up the mouse

how does this relate to diagonal movement??

the 3366 only goes to ~12000hz when moving above a certain speed.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> am010 uses dc led control (at least on the g100s) so the only way to directly measure the framerate is by reverse engineering the sensor's register addresses and
> i estimated 4850 from mousetester.


AM010 is/should be around 4000fps, it was actually leaked indirectly by accident here on the forums.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> AM010 is/should be around 4000fps, it was actually leaked indirectly by accident here on the forums.


source please


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> source please


Im too lazy to search for it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for my torq x5 which has 3988, it's also variable framerate but it has no sleep mode. i measured it but don't remember. i think the minimum was around 4000hz
> if you look at its mousetester graphs you'll see that it doesn't transition between framerates as smoothly as the g303 does; there are
> 
> ninox aurora's 3090 is 6448hz when there's enough light on the sensor i.e. pretty much always unless you lift up the mouse
> 
> how does this relate to diagonal movement??
> 
> the 3366 only goes to ~12000hz when moving above a certain speed.


The 3988 should be better than the 3310. Knowing the FPS of the 3988 would help determine that.

3366 > 3988 > 9800 > 3310 > 3090 > AM010?

I use a red mouse pad for the visible red LED 3090 mice to make sure the frame rate is the highest possible.

I guess, the lower the frame rate the worse the tracking is diagonally. There will be more "stair stepping" occurring at certain speeds. If the frame rate was higher, I don't think you would need to move the mouse faster for better tracking.

When a mouse has to be moved at a certain speed, to get the best tracking / highest FPS, I am forced to use a lower sensitivity. I have to find the balance, otherwise making small correction seems more difficult. Same goes for rest/sleep modes (as seen on wireless and laptop mice).

Maybe the IR LED on the 3366 and 3310 reduces the FPS the sensors are capable of, especially when used on black mouse pads.

If it is possible, I would like the max frame rate enabled all of the time. However, it appears a lot of people perceive low FPS sensors to feel better and high FPS sensors to feel "floaty," "detached" or "inaccurate."


----------



## qsxcv

i read around here that 3988 has 12500 max

sensors don't see color. to the sensor, a red mousepad could look the same as a light grey mousepad or a light blue mousepad.
for the ninox aurora, even a black mousepad is sufficiently reflective that the framerate hits the maximum of 6500

i don't see any connection between framerate and diagonal tracking.

the 3366 is able to reach its max framerate on black pads.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> sensors don't see color. to the sensor, a red mousepad could look the same as a light grey mousepad or a light blue mousepad.
> for the ninox aurora, even a black mousepad is sufficiently reflective that the framerate hits the maximum of 6500
> 
> the 3366 is able to reach its max framerate on black pads.


Black is the absence of color/light, is it not? If you use a surface that is similar to the LED's wavelength it will reflect better, correct? Avago stated something similar.

It's not about color specifically, rather about reflectivity of the intended wavelength for the sensor. As you can see in the data sheet.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's not about color specifically, rather about reflectivity of the intended wavelength for the sensor. As you can see in the data sheet.


yup that's the point

black mousepads are obviously not completely unreflective. I think the reason black pads generally track well is that the specular reflections of the light off the fibers (or peaks for hardpads) contrasts sharply with the dark background. e.g. see the 1.5mm picture here http://logical-gaming.blogspot.jp/2014/11/blog-post_29.html .


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yup that's the point
> 
> black mousepads are obviously not completely unreflective. I think the reason black pads generally track well is that the specular reflections of the light off the fibers (or peaks for hardpads) contrasts sharply with the dark background. e.g. see the 1.5mm picture here http://logical-gaming.blogspot.jp/2014/11/blog-post_29.html .


Don't people complain that the 3310 and 3366 have bad tracking behavior on the black QCK? That wasn't the case with the 3090 using the visible red LED.


----------



## qsxcv

my am010's and infrared 3090 (aurora) track fine on qck. my g303 tracks fine on pretty much everything.

there's no causal link... unless the qck is unusually reflective under ir light or something


----------



## Melan

It could be just wear on the pad, especially from sweat and skin that's left from wrist. I don't expect people to wash their pads tbh. I never had any issues with 3310, AM010 and 3366 tracking on QCK and Zero.

Edit: Also 3050/3055 and 3090 worked well on any setting.


----------



## bigtastie

Regarding the sleep mode and unstable performance, is it something that could be fixed tweaking USB or is the problem related to a power saving circuit crippling the 3366 sensor? Is it something Logitech has to fix by firmware or it is it a DIY hack?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigtastie*
> 
> Regarding the sleep mode and unstable performance, is it something that could be fixed tweaking USB or is the problem related to a power saving circuit crippling the 3366 sensor? Is it something Logitech has to fix by firmware or it is it a DIY hack?


The standby mode with very low framerate is weird, but the framerate being flexible in general might not be bad. About that, my thinking goes like this:

Did you see how well the two 3366 sensor mice are testing for accuracy with regards to acceleration? They seem to be the absolute best. You go into an FPS game, move your hand as fast as possible in one direction, then very slowly move it back to your starting position, and these mice (perhaps) beat all other with regards to getting as close as possible to the start spot for the crosshair.

So it's unclear if the framerate being somewhat flexible does anything to harm the accuracy as there are no examples of a sensor being better. The way they built it might actually be helping. The slow framerate might make the calculations that are done on the sensor's image more accurate because of less rounding errors, and the fast framerate might just be there to make the sensor not skip on fast movements.


----------



## Brightmist

@CPate Any chance you guys can explain a simplified version of power saving and variable frame-rate features of the 3366?


----------



## bigtastie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> @CPate Any chance you guys can explain a simplified version of power saving and variable frame-rate features of the 3366?


It just means that the mouse has four operating modes, each with an individual frame rate of the sensor LED, depending on how (fast) you move mouse. So first of all it seems that it has a sleep mode, where the LED frame rate is very low and could mean poor performance. Ideally a gaming mouse would have the same frame rate at all times to have a consistent performance regardless of how fast you (or don't) move the mouse. And why would a gaming mouse even have a "sleep mode"?

I don't know if there is any actual proof of this resulting in poor / inconsistent performance in practice though.


----------



## detto87

Woohoo!
OCN finally found sth about the 3366 that is "a problem", so we are all stuck in the never ending buy-try-sell train again.


----------



## TriviumKM

Has anyone figured out why some people have double lines in the mousetester graphs where as others have a single line tightly following the curve?

I get double lines with every mouse, but sometimes, and only sometimes, when i change BIOS settings (HPET / C States / etc) I briefly get a single tight line following the curve. The mouse feels noticably better whenever this occurs, but it doesn't last as the double line returns after some time passes (a couple of minutes to an hour, varies).

Again, this isn't G303 / 3366 specific as it occurs with every mouse i own, i just initially noticed it while testing the 3366.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigtastie*
> 
> Regarding the sleep mode and unstable performance, is it something that could be fixed tweaking USB or is the problem related to a power saving circuit crippling the 3366 sensor? Is it something Logitech has to fix by firmware or it is it a DIY hack?


It's just some settings in the SROM they Logitech can change whenever they feel like it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigtastie*
> 
> It just means that the mouse has four operating modes, each with an individual frame rate of the sensor LED, depending on how (fast) you move mouse. So first of all it seems that it has a sleep mode, where the LED frame rate is very low and could mean poor performance. Ideally a gaming mouse would have the same frame rate at all times to have a consistent performance regardless of how fast you (or don't) move the mouse. And why would a gaming mouse even have a "sleep mode"?
> 
> I don't know if there is any actual proof of this resulting in poor / inconsistent performance in practice though.


There are a lot of options for companies to use. If they want to use angle snapping, rest modes, etc, it's up to them.

Have you ever used a laptop mouse from Logitech? It's an extreme example, but you can see how certain settings affect performance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Woohoo!
> OCN finally found sth about the 3366 that is "a problem", so we are all stuck in the never ending buy-try-sell train again.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Has anyone figured out why some people have double lines in the mousetester graphs where as others have a single line tightly following the curve?
> 
> I get double lines with every mouse, but sometimes, and only sometimes, when i change BIOS settings (HPET / C States / etc) I briefly get a single tight line following the curve. The mouse feels noticably better whenever this occurs, but it doesn't last as the double line returns after some time passes (a couple of minutes to an hour, varies).
> 
> Again, this isn't G303 / 3366 specific as it occurs with every mouse i own, i just initially noticed it while testing the 3366.


generally due to sensor framerate and usb polling mismatch.
oscillators aren't perfectly stable and i'd bet that what you see after changing bios stuff is just coincidental.

also perception of the "tightness" of a line is easily skewed when the slopes are high since what actually matters is the vertical deviation from the line


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Woohoo!
> OCN finally found sth about the 3366 that is "a problem", so we are all stuck in the never ending buy-try-sell train again.


as i said many times, WMO/MLT04 has the same "problem"








it's not ideal and it shouldn't be there in a gaming mouse but it's not as big of a deal as what you'd instinctively think
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's just some settings in the SROM they Logitech can change whenever they feel like it.


pretty sure you wouldn't even needa change srom.

there should be a bit in one of the configuration registers that you can write to that sets fixed framerate mode. at least that's how it is for the 9800 (see pg 30 of http://www.pixart.com.tw/upload/ADNS-9800%20DS_S_V1.0_20130514144352.pdf) and i'd imagine that the 3366 has something similar


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> generally due to sensor framerate and usb polling mismatch.
> oscillators aren't perfectly stable and i'd bet that what you see after changing bios stuff is just coincidental.
> 
> also perception of the "tightness" of a line is easily skewed when the slopes are high since what actually matters is the vertical deviation from the line


Thanks for info, appreciate it.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The standby mode with very low framerate is weird, but the framerate being flexible in general might not be bad. About that, my thinking goes like this:
> 
> Did you see how well the two 3366 sensor mice are testing for accuracy with regards to acceleration? They seem to be the absolute best. You go into an FPS game, move your hand as fast as possible in one direction, then very slowly move it back to your starting position, and these mice (perhaps) beat all other with regards to getting as close as possible to the start spot for the crosshair.
> 
> So it's unclear if the framerate being somewhat flexible does anything to harm the accuracy as there are no examples of a sensor being better. The way they built it might actually be helping. The slow framerate might make the calculations that are done on the sensor's image more accurate because of less rounding errors, and the fast framerate might just be there to make the sensor not skip on fast movements.


I think this is most logical idea.

Sensor would have trouble picking up slow kovement if one keeps very high fps


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The standby mode with very low framerate is weird, but the framerate being flexible in general might not be bad. About that, my thinking goes like this:
> 
> Did you see how well the two 3366 sensor mice are testing for accuracy with regards to acceleration? They seem to be the absolute best.


has anyone done any numerical tests (apart from logitech themselves)?
Quote:


> So it's unclear if the framerate being somewhat flexible does anything to harm the accuracy as there are no examples of a sensor being better. The way they built it might actually be helping. The slow framerate might make the calculations that are done on the sensor's image more accurate because of less rounding errors, and the fast framerate might just be there to make the sensor not skip on fast movements.


yea that's what i think too but skylit told me no in a pm.
but it makes no sense to me to have a 4900fps mode above a 4100fps one though...
and yea high framerate is necessary for high max-speed


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> has anyone done any numerical tests (apart from logitech themselves)?


I didn't see anyone doing serious experimenting. I meant just half-assing an experiment, using the full width of a large mousepad in an FPS game, the thing manages to be super good with regards to the error (I've only seen the G502 first hand).


----------



## qsxcv

so i tapped into the spi pins of the 3366 and also the usb data line on my scope. don't have soldering stuff so i just used bare copper wire like this

hm bare copper wires everywhere what could possibly go wrong









anyway

pink trace is the usb data, yellow is SCLK (serial clock for spi), and blue is the MOSI (master out slave in i.e. mcu to 3366) or MISO (3366 to mcu)
there's some crosstalk due to the shared ground and other stuff i'm too lazy to think about but whatever

basically what the mcu does is this:
talk to computer via usb (pink stuff), writes 0x00 to register 0x50, reads 6 bytes from register 0x50, repeat...
as far as i can tell the registers and spi communication is mostly similar to that of the 9800 which has a public datasheet

register 0x50 is the motion burst register for pretty much all avago sensors. reading from it outputs the contents of a bunch of registers (see pg 17 of 9800 datasheet) and most importantly it outputs the x and y motion as two 16 bit two's complement integers. in this picture http://i.imgur.com/0EHUYgk.png the sensor has outputted 15 for x and 22 for y.

so i did a little experiment to make sure that the mcu isn't processing the sensor's data. yea 3366 is a modern mouse and doesn't need mcu interpolation but it's still good to know for sure.
to do this i simultaneously ran mousetester (taped mouse1 on my g100s), probed MISO, moved the mouse, and recorded ~20ms of data on the oscilloscope. yea quite awkward but with the dpi set to 12000 it's not necessary to move very fast to get sizable cursor movements.

the first 9 deltas recorded on the oscilloscope were
17, 23
23, 24
15, 22
18, 20
16, 22
17, 20
18, 21
22, 27
17, 23

and i proceeded to look in mousetester's log for the same numbers. didn't take too long with ctrl-f and knowing that the y values are inverted.
17,-23,18759.6916574727
23,-24,18760.6910673645
15,-22,18761.6922326601
18,-20,18762.6919351191
16,-22,18763.6916375782
17,-20,18764.6916326045
18,-21,18765.6919201982
22,-27,18766.6925003591
17,-23,18767.6927879528
yup exactly as expected


----------



## iceskeleton

So, it should be fine if ( low chance







) logitech released an update to allow people to "toggle" an always on mode to the highest operating mode for the FPS?

Did they have it the way it is now to be cute or is it for power savings or something else.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yea that's what i think too but skylit told me no in a pm.
> but it makes no sense to me to have a 4900fps mode above a 4100fps one though...
> and yea high framerate is necessary for high max-speed


Why do you think slow motion/high speed/high frame rate cameras exist?

It's called burst mode.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> So, it should be fine if ( low chance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) logitech released an update to allow people to "toggle" an always on mode to the highest operating mode for the FPS?
> 
> Did they have it the way it is now to be cute or is it for power savings or something else.


Not happening. They would simply release a firmware to set the sensor as the customer wants. Like what happened with the debounce of the G502.


----------



## treach

i dont understand a thing









no but really whats the reason they dont keep the fps at maximum?

by the way, avago or logitech please hire qsxvc !!

dude you teach everything yourself you damn genius ^^


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> i dont understand a thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no but really whats the reason they dont keep the fps at maximum?
> 
> by the way, avago or logitech please hire qsxvc !!
> 
> dude you teach everything yourself you damn genius ^^


It's bad because if you use high FPS in slow motion it can not distinguish the movement between frames because it's two picture are too identical.


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> It's bad because if you use high FPS in slow motion it can not distinguish the movement between frames because it's two picture are too identical.


ah now i understand, so the best solution would be FPS scaling with m/s right? oft course with no steps.. cant describe it in english but i think you guys know what i mean


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> ah now i understand, so the best solution would be FPS scaling with m/s right? oft course with no steps.. cant describe it in english but i think you guys know what i mean


Dunno what you mean with 'no steps'.

But I think most importantly it shows even mtl04 uses variable frame


----------



## qsxcv

probably best way is sensor framerate fixed to a multiple of 1000hz + low duty cycle pwm illumination using an on-chip led like on the 3366.


----------



## Falkentyne

Well I just did some poor man's tests.
What I found out is, at 12000 DPI (this is the g502 but same sensor), when you start moving the mouse, and then stop it and try to start movement again, it responds to even breathing on the thing. If you tap the mouse pad, the cursor jitters or moves. Just touching the mouse causes movement.

Then if you let the mouse stay at rest for 10 seconds, it stops responding to these tiny movements. it won't respond if you tap the mouse pad next to it, either. It just sits there (Unless you tap hard).

And if you try to move the mouse by barely starting movement, it won't respond. It actually has to go a certain distance before it starts responding. Once it starts responding, it becomes super ultra sensitive again.

HOWEVER........

At 1800 DPI, there seems to be absolutely no difference in response whether the mouse is moving then stops then you try to start movement again right away, or whether you let the mouse sit there for 30 seconds and then start movement, or let the mouse sit for half a second and start movement. It seems to restart movement at exactly the same amount of motion. It's very hard to tell if it responds to tapping at 1800 dpi right away after movement versus leaving it idle for 30 seconds. If it does, it doesn't affect normal response at all.

at 3500 dpi, it is more responsive to tapping, instantly after being stationary, versus leaving it stationary for 30 seconds.


----------



## qsxcv

just tried. i find the same for tapping. i can't feel any deadzone though...


----------



## Falkentyne

Yeah I use 1800 dpi, so whatever power save thing the sensor has doesn't seem to affect anything at 1800 dpi. Mouse feels consistent no matter how long its at rest or not at rest. I DO wish I didn't have to move it as fast for pixel sized movements to adjust. That was the one thing I loved about the Deathadder black edition...it would respond so quickly to tiny pixel movements while the g502 requires more. (of course it responds much faster at 6000 dpi and much much more at 10k-12k, but....)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah I use 1800 dpi, so whatever power save thing the sensor has doesn't seem to affect anything at 1800 dpi. Mouse feels consistent no matter how long its at rest or not at rest. I DO wish I didn't have to move it as fast for pixel sized movements to adjust. That was the one thing I loved about the Deathadder black edition...it would respond so quickly to tiny pixel movements while the g502 requires more. (of course it responds much faster at 6000 dpi and much much more at 10k-12k, but....)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From the little I played with it so far, the sensor *feels immensely different* than any 3090 variant or the 3310 Avior using the 3.38 firmware. It picks up fine movements, basically following everything you do, this *decreased my precision by ~10-15%*. With the Avior I had no issue achieving the same hit rate I have with the 3090 Zowie mice I have been using for years, literally took a few minutes, it was an easy transition. I need some time to adjust to the 3366 sensor. *I might even need some angle snapping.* I can see why Cloud 9's GO team had performance issues when they first started using the G303. That being said, it feels like the *diagonal accuracy isn't very good at any speed of movement*, like it's worse than the 3310. I need to play more to better understand this sensor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Tracking targets is great. *Once you get your hand/arm moving correctly it's awesome*. Using an AWP or rail gun is funner with the 3366 than a 3090 or 3310.


When I first started playing with the 3366 it felt like i had to move it at a certain speed to get "precision." Once I started moving the mouse at a certain speed tracking targets was a lot better. Maybe now we know why that is.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> it appears a lot of people perceive low FPS sensors to feel better and high FPS sensors to feel "floaty," "detached" or "inaccurate."


mlt04 - 9000fps
3988 DA 4g - 12k+ FPS

Both higher than average, both 2 of the best performing sensors I've used.

3366 also 12k+ right? Yet for me, worse than the other two mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah I use 1800 dpi, so whatever power save thing the sensor has doesn't seem to affect anything at 1800 dpi. Mouse feels consistent no matter how long its at rest or not at rest. I DO wish I didn't have to move it as fast for pixel sized movements to adjust. That was the one thing I loved about the Deathadder black edition...it would respond so quickly to tiny pixel movements while the g502 requires more. (of course it responds much faster at 6000 dpi and much much more at 10k-12k, but....)


Have you had anyone else ever corroborate your "deadzone" experience? Because I've seen you mention it lots of times but don't remember anyone else being able to reproduce it. I've tried myself. There might be something wrong on your end with your PC.


----------



## qsxcv

and finalmouse 6500fps









i think you're all prematurely drawing connections between sensor framerate and perception...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> mlt04 - 9000fps
> 3988 DA 4g - 12k+ FPS
> 
> Both higher than average, both 2 of the best performing sensors I've used.
> 
> 3366 also 12k+ right? Yet for me, worse than the other two mice.
> Have you had anyone else ever corroborate your "deadzone" experience? Because I've seen you mention it lots of times but don't remember anyone else being able to reproduce it. I've tried myself. There might be something wrong on your end with your PC.


The 3988 DeathAdder is likely set to run differently than the 3366. The hardware of the 3366 is likely better, but the coding needs to be good to make use of it. When the 3988 DeathAdder came out people were saying it was very bad, after some updates it supposedly got better.

Maybe it's his mouse pad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> and finalmouse 6500fps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think you're all prematurely drawing connections between sensor framerate and perception...


Did you test the FinalMouse with your oscilloscope? Maybe it is running at its potential most of the time, maybe that's why people are saying it's really good.

I think minimum FPS should be 6000. I didn't like the old PixArt sensor -- I think it had lower than 6000 FPS.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> and finalmouse 6500fps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think you're all prematurely drawing connections between sensor framerate and perception...


They'll take anything to rag on Logitech.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> They'll take anything to rag on Logitech.


There you go again. Are you forgetting how we got to this topic?

If the sensor is highly capable, it should run at its full potential if it's inside a wired/desktop/gaming mouse. If Zowie or Razer had this sensor people would still say the same things.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> mlt04 - 9000fps
> 3988 DA 4g - 12k+ FPS
> 
> Both higher than average, both 2 of the best performing sensors I've used.
> 
> 3366 also 12k+ right? Yet for me, worse than the other two mice.
> Have you had anyone else ever corroborate your "deadzone" experience? Because I've seen you mention it lots of times but don't remember anyone else being able to reproduce it. I've tried myself. There might be something wrong on your end with your PC.


So you're saying:
1) there's something wrong with my core i7 2600k and P67 and 290x?
2) there's something wrong with my old Pentium 4 with windows XP?
3) there's something wrong with my MSI whitebook laptop (core i7 2670k or whatever that cpu is called)?

Its the same thing on all three. NO drivers installed either for either mice.
And yes it's the deadzone thing. But now we know exactly what's going on.

The Logitech g502 at 120000 (max) dpi gets a tiny deadzone after it hasn't been moving for about >10 seconds.
But if you keep it moving you can blow on the mouse and get a reaction to it (it feels like the deadzone is smaller than the size of an atom right after movement--meaning none at all).
But wait 10 seconds...the mouse wont respond to extremely extremely tiny movements (it wont react if I tap the mouse pad right next to it) but once it moves a certain physical distance, it starts moving again, and then tapping the pad will make the mouse instantly react.

Now if you are still going to troll, you can come to my house and check it out yourself and find out I was right the whole time.
In fact you know what? Adding you to my block list because you are bigger troll than Scottie Pippen.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> They'll take anything to rag on Logitech.


I think you misunderstood the conversation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying:
> 1) there's something wrong with my core i7 2600k and P67 and 290x?
> 2) there's something wrong with my old Pentium 4 with windows XP?
> 3) there's something wrong with my MSI whitebook laptop (core i7 2670k or whatever that cpu is called)?
> 
> Its the same thing on all three. NO drivers installed either for either mice.
> And yes it's the deadzone thing. But now we know exactly what's going on.
> 
> The Logitech g502 at 120000 (max) dpi gets a tiny deadzone after it hasn't been moving for about >10 seconds.
> But if you keep it moving you can blow on the mouse and get a reaction to it (it feels like the deadzone is smaller than the size of an atom right after movement--meaning none at all).
> But wait 10 seconds...the mouse wont respond to extremely extremely tiny movements (it wont react if I tap the mouse pad right next to it) but once it moves a certain physical distance, it starts moving again, and then tapping the pad will make the mouse instantly react.
> 
> Now if you are still going to troll, you can come to my house and check it out yourself and find out I was right the whole time.
> In fact you know what? Adding you to my block list because you are bigger troll than Scottie Pippen.


Wow, you're very emotionally unstable. A simple "I've checked it on multiple PCs" would have sufficed.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Adding you to my block list because you are bigger troll than Scottie Pippen.


lmao


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Wow, you're very emotionally unstable.


Max, this is OCN and people here in this section of the forum live and die on their perceptions and other people's comments relating to mice.

To say to someone else to be calm and unemotional is akin to asking a rabid Grizzly to mind his manners at your dinner table, it just can never be done







.

Enjoy reading their comments as much as you enjoy people agreeing with yours.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Hmmm could these low fps states be the reason why surface calibration is utterly broken?


----------



## Cyro999

Got my g303 yesterday, works fine for fingertip grip with thumb just past the ridge, pinky behind it (or claw with everything in front of ridge and base of palm contact)

the sensor position and center of mass + leverage around it feels really good. WIth several other mice a lot of my force was going into the desk, but you can grip around the center of mass or even below it with a g303 which solves that problem and makes it feel much lighter

Sometimes when i make sharp snaps, the mouse jumps up slightly from my pad and stops tracking for like 10-20% of the movement. Is there a way to raise LOD using the surface tuning?


----------



## nittwit

You all need to get a Genius Maurus (the one with 3500 dpi), and forget about the other mice forever.

Do you like light mice? Take out the weight that it has inside and it'll weight 68g.

Do you like heavy mice? Put your monitor inside the mouse.

Do you like braided cables and don't like to modify your mouse? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

Do you like rubber cables and don't like to modify your mouse? Peel the braided cable and ta-dah (actually, the cable is x1000 times better than the one the DA 3.5G has).

Do you like light clicks? Modify the clicks, it's cheap anyway

Do you like cheap mice, but 10/10? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

Would you like a mouse that'll last u forever? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

You use your left hand? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

Are you a braindead guy that can't aim? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

You don't want to spent more than 20$ on a mouse? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

Do you want to spent more than 100$ on a mouse? If so, buy the Genius Maurus and 4 other Genius Mauricios.

Do you want to be a genius? If so, buy the Genius Maurus

Are you tired of the people saying "OH, If you're playing bad, you should buy a mouse with a better sensor" If so, buy the Genius Maurus.

Do you want a Genius Maurus? If so, buy a Genius Maurus

I can beat anyone with a G303, Intellimouse 3.0 or any other mouse with any office mouse.


----------



## nittwit

Look at this sexy beast.


----------



## zeflow

Hey guys, one issue I've having is the g303's cable is catching on my hayate otsu. I think its because the mix of fibers, do you guys have any suggestions to fix this??


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Hey guys, one issue I've having is the g303's cable is catching on my hayate otsu. I think its because the mix of fibers, do you guys have any suggestions to fix this??


It it's just catching on the edge, you could cover that part of the pad with some tape. If it's the whole pad, idk


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nittwit*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> You all need to get a Genius Maurus (the one with 3500 dpi), and forget about the other mice forever.
> 
> Do you like light mice? Take out the weight that it has inside and it'll weight 68g.
> 
> Do you like heavy mice? Put your monitor inside the mouse.
> 
> Do you like braided cables and don't like to modify your mouse? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> Do you like rubber cables and don't like to modify your mouse? Peel the braided cable and ta-dah (actually, the cable is x1000 times better than the one the DA 3.5G has).
> 
> Do you like light clicks? Modify the clicks, it's cheap anyway
> 
> Do you like cheap mice, but 10/10? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> Would you like a mouse that'll last u forever? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> You use your left hand? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> Are you a braindead guy that can't aim? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> You don't want to spent more than 20$ on a mouse? If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> Do you want to spent more than 100$ on a mouse? If so, buy the Genius Maurus and 4 other Genius Mauricios.
> 
> Do you want to be a genius? If so, buy the Genius Maurus
> 
> Are you tired of the people saying "OH, If you're playing bad, you should buy a mouse with a better sensor" If so, buy the Genius Maurus.
> 
> Do you want a Genius Maurus? If so, buy a Genius Maurus
> 
> I can beat anyone with a G303, Intellimouse 3.0 or any other mouse with any office mouse.


The pieces on the bottom that stick out to the sides look problematic. I don't see any necessity for them. They would only hinder my grips.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Hey guys, one issue I've having is the g303's cable is catching on my hayate otsu. I think its because the mix of fibers, do you guys have any suggestions to fix this??


Braided cables catch on some mouse pads regardless. The only thing you can do is put tape on the edge of your mouse pad or tape the cable.

The cable getting caught on my mouse pad was one reason I returned the G303.


----------



## qsxcv

strip off the braiding


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> strip off the braiding


Has anyone done this to their G303? Pics?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Max, this is OCN and people here in this section of the forum live and die on their perceptions and other people's comments relating to mice.
> 
> To say to someone else to be calm and unemotional is akin to asking a rabid Grizzly to mind his manners at your dinner table, it just can never be done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Enjoy reading their comments as much as you enjoy people agreeing with yours.


Seems like an unusual topic to get emotional about. But I agree. I've been trying to tip toe around all the feelings people seem to leave laying about.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Has anyone done this to their G303? Pics?



i only stripped off a tiny piece just to see what it looks like. nothing interesting as expected
the braiding does absolutely nothing functionally


----------



## zeflow

Could I just swap the cable with my g100s?


----------



## nittwit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The pieces on the bottom that stick out to the sides look problematic. I don't see any necessity for them. They would only hinder my grips.


You'll get used to them brosky, like every human in earth get used to things. If u don't like it at all, and you think it hinders your potential, you can try cutting those wings off. My hands are 18.7cm exactly, if that's useful to you.

Also, if you fu it up cutting them, you can buy another one for 10$, cheapcheapasuckaforadollah.

No kidding, this is the best mausy evyr or at least for me. You can palm it, you can claw grip it and also you can fingertip it.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 
> i only stripped off a tiny piece just to see what it looks like. nothing interesting as expected
> the braiding does absolutely nothing functionally


So true, all braiding on every mouse cable is there for so-called AESTHETIC reasons only, so that the Company thinks it's transformed a boring input device into a "Gamer-Style" object, to be worshiped by newbs everywhere







.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> So true, all braiding on every mouse cable is there for so-called AESTHETIC reasons only, so that the Company thinks it's transformed a boring input device into a "Gamer-Style" object, to be worshiped by newbs everywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Braided cables are used to make the cable appear to be of higher quality.

The notion that braided cables are better quality than non braided cables has been accepted by the majority of consumers. Only pro players and a small amount of "enthusiasts" have rejected it.


----------



## Melan

Braided cables usually start to cause problems when they wear down. My G500 cable used to twist in very awkward way when layer got damaged.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Braided cables are used to make the cable appear to be of higher quality.
> 
> The notion that braided cables are better quality than non braided cables has been accepted by the majority of consumers. Only pro players and a small amount of "enthusiasts" have rejected it.


well admittedly it gives cables the illusion of being softer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Could I just swap the cable with my g100s?


yea but you'll need to remove the top skate fully to access the two top screws.


----------



## benllok

Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but if I decide not to use the software the manufacturer provides (as I always do with every other mouse), what are its default dpi steps? On my G100s it was 1000, 1750 and 2300.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but if I decide not to use the software the manufacturer provides (as I always do with every other mouse), what are its default dpi steps? On my G100s it was 1000, 1750 and 2300.


2,400
You can have a maximum of 5 settings via its tool. It toggles CPI without the software, too.


----------



## Falkentyne

I Forgot but I think its 400, 800, 1600, 3200 and 6400.
But you *SHOULD* install the drivers. Trust me on this.

Install the drivers, set your dpi steps you want on the mouse (you can set the # of dpi steps you want, per profile.
Then you can also set any "single key" hotkeys (like F1, F3, etc) for the other mouse buttons if you wish.
Then when you're done, just uninstall the software. Everything will be saved onboard.
The only thing not saved onboard are multi-key macros.

I never use the drivers either, but I'm happy I installed them to set up my mouse the way I want it to be set up








Then I uninstall when I'm done









You can also disable or change the dpi shift key or disable the "sniper button" (for G502; I don't know about G303; I don't think the G303 has one, lol).
It's worth it to take the time to install the software.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I Forgot but I think its 400, 800, 1600, 3200 and 6400.
> But you *SHOULD* install the drivers. Trust me on this.
> 
> Install the drivers, set your dpi steps you want on the mouse (you can set the # of dpi steps you want, per profile.
> Then you can also set any "single key" hotkeys (like F1, F3, etc) for the other mouse buttons if you wish.
> Then when you're done, just uninstall the software. Everything will be saved onboard.
> The only thing not saved onboard are multi-key macros.
> 
> I never use the drivers either, but I'm happy I installed them to set up my mouse the way I want it to be set up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I uninstall when I'm done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also disable or change the dpi shift key or disable the "sniper button" (for G502; I don't know about G303; I don't think the G303 has one, lol).
> It's worth it to take the time to install the software.


If that's correct then it's amazing. Told you I'm an ignorant when it comes to mice software and features.

Thanks for the detailed asnwer!


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> If that's correct then it's amazing. Told you I'm an ignorant when it comes to mice software and features.
> 
> Thanks for the detailed asnwer!


You can use any CPI setting because they are "native", unlike other mice using different interpolation methods such as Zowie and Razer. Zowie had reported processing delay from its 450 and 1,150 settings according to some OCN users, and Razer's Synapse had noticeable delay/lag from its processing/interpolation method versus the current Logitech mice, such as the G502, G303, and G302 using all "native" settings, but the G302 has added processing/"smoothing" or what Logitech calls "filtering" past 2,000 CPI to reduce "ripple".


----------



## Kroah

Hi all,

Still on my quest for the "lightweight-somebuttons" mouse.
The Avior 7k i'm currently using is almost perfect, its weight ~105g (without cable) is too much for me.

Could someone kindly weight the g303 ?
I want to be sure the specs are corrects (87g).

If you have the EVGA X5, i'll be glad to have the weight too (specs give 85g).
(I will ask to the X5 thread otherwise).

Thank you in advance!


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kroah*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Still on my quest for the "lightweight-somebuttons" mouse.
> The Avior 7k i'm currently using is almost perfect, its weight ~105g (without cable) is too much for me.
> 
> Could someone kindly weight the g303 ?
> I want to be sure the specs are corrects (87g).
> 
> If you have the EVGA X5, i'll be glad to have the weight too (specs give 85g).
> (I will ask to the X5 thread otherwise).
> 
> Thank you in advance!


both the G302 and G303 are listed at 87g but that's with the cable completely unplugged and missing from the mouse. If you want to see a bunch of popular mice properly tested then go here: http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2014/08/blog-post_21.html

He has the G302 on a scale showing 91g compared to your old Avior's 104g.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kroah*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Still on my quest for the "lightweight-somebuttons" mouse.
> The Avior 7k i'm currently using is almost perfect, its weight ~105g (without cable) is too much for me.
> 
> Could someone kindly weight the g303 ?
> I want to be sure the specs are corrects (87g).
> 
> If you have the EVGA X5, i'll be glad to have the weight too (specs give 85g).
> (I will ask to the X5 thread otherwise).
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Just put my 303 on a scale, weight was 91 grams.


----------



## Kroah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Just put my 303 on a scale, weight was 91 grams.


Thank you for the info.
I'm afraid i should stick to the FinalMouse for a "very" lightweight like was my Kana v1 at 73g (the Aurora seems to have some build quality issues).
I saw there will soon provide a FM Summer Edition for Europe, i'll check this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> If you want to see a bunch of popular mice properly tested then go here: http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2014/08/blog-post_21.html


Ho, very nice link, even after a year i haven't found this one







. Thank you!


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Hmmm could these low fps states be the reason why surface calibration is utterly broken?


I was expecting a firmware fix for surface calibration by now :/


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Hmmm could these low fps states be the reason why surface calibration is utterly broken?


probably unrelated


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Hmmm could these low fps states be the reason why surface calibration is utterly broken?


From what I understand, surface "calibration" is working as intended. It is supposed to lower LOD as much as possible per surface. Lowering LOD will inevitably cause issues. I think surface "calibration" should only be used for plastic mouse pads.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I understand, surface "calibration" is working as intended. It is supposed to lower LOD as much as possible per surface. Lowering LOD will inevitably cause issues. I think surface "calibration" should only be used for plastic mouse pads.


I think that is true. I used Surface Calibration and couldn't get the mouse to fail.

The other day I was pugging with a friend who recently got the G303 and he kept saying that sometimes the mouse would spaz out. He confirmed that he had a cloth pad, I asked him to blow into the lens and clean it but it was still causing issues. Then I recalled all the complains here and asked him to turn calibration off, he did and his mouse hasn't failed since.


----------



## pinobot

Mine looked at the ground some times on the G440 hard pad but with a soft pad and using the G240 setting i have no problem.


----------



## Trull

I can't believe the G303 is $50 in the US and 70€ (around $80) in Europe. I was actually willing to buy one despite the shape, but overpaying that much is out of the question.

Absolute joke.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I can't believe the G303 is $50 in the US and 70€ (around $80) in Europe. I was actually willing to buy one despite the shape, but overpaying that much is out of the question.
> 
> Absolute joke.


It seems when Razer hits a certain point of sales they decrease their prices. I don't know if that is the same for Logitech.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It seems when Razer hits a certain point of sales they decrease their prices. I don't know if that is the same for Logitech.


I don't mind paying $1 = 1€, or even slightly higher, but paying 60% extra for the same exact product is just plain stupid. No wonder they're not selling them if what you said is true.

I paid 15€ for my G100s... *shipped*. Granted that was a Korean one, but still.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I understand, surface "calibration" is working as intended. It is supposed to lower LOD as much as possible per surface. Lowering LOD will inevitably cause issues. I think surface "calibration" should only be used for plastic mouse pads.


Is there any way to raise the LOD?

I'm losing tracking occasionally during very sharp movements in 2d games because part of the mouse (the bottom or the left side, usually) bounces up a bit and the LOD is tiny by default


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> I can't believe the G303 is $50 in the US and 70€ (around $80) in Europe. I was actually willing to buy one despite the shape, but overpaying that much is out of the question.
> 
> Absolute joke.


I got it used (like new) for 26€ shipped








Stalk ebay, I was sure someone would not like the shape and sell it right away, not knowing about amazon's return policies.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Is there any way to raise the LOD?
> 
> I'm losing tracking occasionally during very sharp movements in 2d games because part of the mouse (the bottom or the left side, usually) bounces up a bit and the LOD is tiny by default


Are you using a plastic mouse pad? The LOD is noticeably higher on plastic mouse pads.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Are you using a plastic mouse pad? The LOD is noticeably higher on plastic mouse pads.


I thought it was the opposite?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I thought it was the opposite?


With the G303 [3366] LOD is higher on my plastic mouse pad than on my cloth pads.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2380_20#post_23839828


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> With the G303 [3366] LOD is higher on my plastic mouse pad than on my cloth pads.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2380_20#post_23839828


Interesting.

I know with the EC2-A the "hard pad" LOD setting is lower.

I hope Logitech fixes surface calibration someday...in fact, is there a representative reading this? I'd be interested to know if they're in it


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I hope Logitech fixes surface calibration someday...in fact, is there a representative reading this? I'd be interested to know if they're in it


I think the 3310's "calibration" method is to lower LED brightness, whereas the 3366 changes different settings without messing with the LED brightness. That's probably why the 3366 fails more, on certain surfaces, after calibration.


----------



## EarlZ

How is the click feeling on the G303, I always found the G9/G9X to be the most click comfortable mice that I've ever used.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> How is the click feeling on the G303, I always found the G9/G9X to be the most click comfortable mice that I've ever used.


I have been a big critic of Logitech's recent design choices such as the shapes, sniper buttons and the heavy braided cable but I consider the clicks on the G302 and G303 to be better than anything else on the market. The combination of the spring to remove pre-travel and having the buttons separated from shell produces a tactile click that doesn't require much force.

You might not agree of course. But that's my honest 2c.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I have been a big critic of Logitech's recent design choices such as the shapes, sniper buttons and the heavy braided cable but I consider the clicks on the G302 and G303 to be better than anything else on the market. The combination of the spring to remove pre-travel and having the buttons separated from shell produces a tactile click that doesn't require much force.
> 
> You might not agree of course. But that's my honest 2c.


I concur. I don't think the clicks on the 302/303 are matched by any other mouse out there right now. They're as good as it gets.


----------



## Cyro999

Yup


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> How is the click feeling on the G303, I always found the G9/G9X to be the most click comfortable mice that I've ever used.


They're the best simply put.


----------



## Brightmist

I hated using clicks of any mice for more than two decades until I bought a 303 pretty much.


----------



## jaffa2843

I like my G402's click more. But it has japanese Omron D2F-01Fs, so, yeah... Chinese omrons suck. I don't think the G303/302's clicks are absolute divine.
My daily mouse is the G303, however, coz of the shape and weight.


----------



## qsxcv

i haven't tried a wide variety of mice but the g303 and the torq x5's clicks are the best

somehow the torq x5 is able to have clicks pretty much as perfect as the g303's (no pretravel or stiffness) even though the buttons arent on a separate shell


----------



## EarlZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> How is the click feeling on the G303, I always found the G9/G9X to be the most click comfortable mice that I've ever used.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been a big critic of Logitech's recent design choices such as the shapes, sniper buttons and the heavy braided cable but I consider the clicks on the G302 and G303 to be better than anything else on the market. The combination of the spring to remove pre-travel and having the buttons separated from shell produces a tactile click that doesn't require much force.
> 
> You might not agree of course. But that's my honest 2c.
Click to expand...

Have you owned or used a G9/G9X, how is the click feeling compared to it ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> Have you owned or used a G9/G9X?


I haven't. Sorry.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> Have you owned or used a G9/G9X, how is the click feeling compared to it ?


Better than my G9/G9xs (I have owned several, it was my go to mouse for a long time). The clicks on the 303 are more crisp than even the g9, it honestly feels like the g9 was the benchmark they were going for.


----------



## EarlZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> Have you owned or used a G9/G9X, how is the click feeling compared to it ?
> 
> 
> 
> Better than my G9/G9xs (I have owned several, it was my go to mouse for a long time). The clicks on the 303 are more crisp than even the g9, it honestly feels like the g9 was the benchmark they were going for.
Click to expand...

Feedback appreciated!


----------



## cadger

I just got this mouse yesterday and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. I feel like when I lift the mouse and place it back down it sort of wobbles for a split second before stabilizing. The sensor, clicks, are amazing, the shape isn't bad imo. It just feels like the mouse easily tips up to one side with just a small amount of force. Back to the FK1 I guess.


----------



## Melan

Try removing middle feet near the sensor eye.


----------



## detto87

@cadger, what mousepad are you using?


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Try removing middle feet near the sensor eye.


Wouldn't that make it worse? Given that it would even be less stable in the middle of the mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> @cadger, what mousepad are you using?


PureTrak Talent, why?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> PureTrak Talent, why?


I guess the problem is more apparent on softer pads.
Experimenting with mouse feet might help if you don't see yourself changing your mousepad.
Maybe remove all and use sth like MS3.0 hyperglides.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> I just got this mouse yesterday and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. I feel like when I lift the mouse and place it back down it sort of wobbles for a split second before stabilizing. The sensor, clicks, are amazing, *the shape isn't bad imo*. It just feels like the mouse *easily tips up to one side with just a small amount of force*. Back to the FK1 I guess.


That's because of the shape. Therefore, the shape is bad.


----------



## Melan

MS hyperglides wont fit even if you try to put them on. I've put MX-1 until hyperglide release feet for 303.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> That's because of the shape. Therefore, the shape is bad.


I don't experience any negative effects from that, though i'd like higher LOD.

It's because the shape is more narrow underneath than at the middle/top. That has the very positive effect of giving you more leverage under the center of mass, which makes the mouse feel lighter and easier to move.


----------



## Melan

Only thing I hate about this mouse are those borders near mouse feet. I might try to dremel them down some day.


----------



## mg7l0k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> I just got this mouse yesterday and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. I feel like when I lift the mouse and place it back down it sort of wobbles for a split second before stabilizing. The sensor, clicks, are amazing, the shape isn't bad imo. It just feels like the mouse easily tips up to one side with just a small amount of force. Back to the FK1 I guess.


no longer swings


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## cadger

How are all of you griping the mouse? I'm trying to hold it like I did the G100s. With the butt of it in my palm, clawing the rest of it. I did the same with the kinzu.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Only thing I hate about this mouse are those borders near mouse feet. I might try to dremel them down some day.


or just put this over everything
http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-PTFE-Mouse-Color/dp/B003DZ16X4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433618213&sr=8-1&keywords=mouse+tape


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> How are all of you griping the mouse? I'm trying to hold it like I did the G100s. With the butt of it in my palm, clawing the rest of it. I did the same with the kinzu.


Fingertip only. Can put pinky (and sometimes thumb) behind the ridge that way - or go claw, adding the base of palm as a contact point and moving all fingertips beyond the ridge.

Are we allowed to post gameplay vids here? Here's me after a week or so with g303














i like to stress mice a lot, many of them fall apart or don't work well in games like this (like adns-9500 sensor)


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> or just put this over everything
> http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-PTFE-Mouse-Color/dp/B003DZ16X4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433618213&sr=8-1&keywords=mouse+tape


That would be too easy. I don't like easy.


----------



## cadger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Fingertip only. Can put pinky (and sometimes thumb) behind the ridge that way - or go claw, adding the base of palm as a contact point and moving all fingertips beyond the ridge.
> 
> Are we allowed to post gameplay vids here? Here's me after a week or so with g303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i like to stress mice a lot, many of them fall apart or don't work well in games like this (like adns-9500 sensor)


I can't aim like that.. How big are your hands btw? I'm most likely just gonna return the mouse.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cadger*
> 
> I can't aim like that.. How big are your hands btw? I'm most likely just gonna return the mouse.


Average size for boy hands i guess









It's not a palm grip mouse, seems amazing for claw but for fingertip depends exactly how you want to grip or how flexible you are to adjusting grip because the ridge and sloping inwards towards the bottom of the mouse are pretty prominent features that can either help you a lot or make it hard to use


----------



## Melan

What sensitivity do you use in osu? I've been playing mostly on 0.65 with 400 CPI using only mouse.


----------



## Cyro999

That's 600dpi 1:1 on 1920x1080 (so 6/11 windows, no accel anywhere, 1.00x in osu etcetc) but i would consider about 400dpi to 1600dpi to be the sane range for that screen res (higher = less precision and muscle memory but also less drift)


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I don't experience any negative effects from that, though i'd like higher LOD.


I would love to see some statistics on the demand for _higher_ liftoff distance. It's got to be somewhere around .001%

You must have been in hog heaven about 4-8 years ago when every mouse had a garbage 4 cd liftoff sensor.

But I would agree that there should be an *option* to adjust the lod to whatever you want (as long as they make the low lod ~1cd available).


----------



## qsxcv

3366 die:


sensor array on right

i couldn't make out the pixels in the array with my eyes or with camera























the dust on it is fiberglass since yesterday i was using a fiberglass pen to try to remove some silkscreen on the g303 pcb to figure out how things are routed


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I would love to see some statistics on the demand for _higher_ liftoff distance. It's got to be somewhere around .001%
> 
> You must have been in hog heaven about 4-8 years ago when every mouse had a garbage 4 cd liftoff sensor.
> 
> But I would agree that there should be an *option* to adjust the lod to whatever you want (as long as they make the low lod ~1cd available).


Quote:


> I would love to see some statistics on the demand for _higher_ liftoff distance. It's got to be somewhere around .001%


The LOD is very low for me, like 1cd or even a little less. My mouse occasionally lifts off at one side when making sharp movements enough to stop tracking during gameplay and that's extremely annoying. It's like, three of the four mouse feet have contact with the pad yet it still doesn't track.

I don't mind lifting the mouse half a millimeter further if it malfunctions 0 times per hour instead of 3 times per hour due to this.

Way too high LOD is an annoyance, but way too low LOD is a huge problem.

Maybe you play at a medium-high sensitivity only. I play at ~400-800dpi on 1920x1080 for 2d stuff and ~30cm/180 for 3d and it sometimes catches slightly and tilts up at one side during both, which would not be a major problem for me if the tracking didn't stop dead halfway through the snap/swipe movement.

I don't think many people want super high LOD, but almost everyone wants "enough" LOD - and 1cd, maybe even under 1cd just isn't enough if it stops tracking like this when you're not even trying to lift the mouse.


----------



## Maximillion

I agree that too low LOD is an issue. I sometimes have a tendency to slightly tilt my mouse during reaction snaps (especially when swiping left to right) and super low LOD can result in my rotation falling shorter than expected. For me an optimal LOD would be about 2.25 CDs


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3366 die:
> 
> sensor array on right
> 
> i couldn't make out the pixels in the array with my eyes or with camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the dust on it is fiberglass since yesterday i was using a fiberglass pen to try to remove some silkscreen on the g303 pcb to figure out how things are routed


Ironically, there isn't enough pixel density in those pictures to count the pixels of the array.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I agree that too low LOD is an issue. I sometimes have a tendency to slightly tilt my mouse during reaction snaps (especially when swiping left to right) and super low LOD can result in my rotation falling shorter than expected. For me an optimal LOD would be about 2.25 CDs


A CD is ~1.2-1.3mm. That would be a very high LOD you want. That would be near the old 3090 type sensors.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Ironically, there isn't enough pixel density in those pictures to count the pixels of the array.
> A CD is ~1.2-1.3mm. That would be a very high LOD you want. That would be near the old 3090 type sensors.


My DA 3.5g LOD was way way too high, but a medium LOD is definitely far better for me than an LOD where they try to cut off every 0.1mm and then it stops tracking halfway through a swipe.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I agree that too low LOD is an issue. I sometimes have a tendency to slightly tilt my mouse during reaction snaps (especially when swiping left to right) and *super low LOD can result in my rotation falling shorter than expected*. For me an optimal LOD would be about 2.25 CDs


Exactly why I dislike low LOD.

I have to like "readjust" my 180° swipes.


----------



## johnsamuels

Isn't it just too freaking small?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> Isn't it just too freaking small?


It's a medium sized mouse actually and weighs almost 90 grams. Not really small.

It is -NOT- a palm mouse though. It's a claw mouse with the ability to fingertip it.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Ironically, there isn't enough pixel density in those pictures to count the pixels of the array.


Where's Logitech's response here, Logitech?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Tfw my 360 takes more space than my mousepad can provide.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> A CD is ~1.2-1.3mm. That would be a very high LOD you want. That would be near the old 3090 type sensors.


brainfart, I meant ~2.25mm then. maybe a little less for heavier mice that I wouldn't have a tendency to lift as high.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I prefer 1.7-2mm LOD


----------



## boogdud

The closer it can get to 1-1.5mm the better.

I don't want the mouse tracking when I lift. It might be fine for you guys that measure your 360 in feet and still play games that were optimized for 800x600, but for those of us that live in the real world and play things other than CS, high liftoff is a real turnoff.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> The closer it can get to 1-1.5mm the better.
> 
> I don't want the mouse tracking when I lift. It might be fine for you guys that measure your 360 in feet and still play games that were optimized for 800x600, but for those of us that live in the real world and play things other than CS, high liftoff is a real turnoff.


I should mention that I like to use two set of mouse skates to eliminate mouse shell drag hence why I want a slightly higher LOD


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I should mention that I like to use two set of mouse skates to eliminate mouse shell drag hence why I want a slightly higher LOD


Was that because of my post about using double sets of hotline games mouse feet on my g502?








I use two sets of feet to help prevent the right side of the g502 from dragging on the pad if I accidentally tilt it to the right. 1.2mm of feet. still works perfectly if I use factory default tuning.

But my LOD is like less than 0.5mm with that setup.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Was that because of my post about using double sets of hotline games mouse feet on my g502?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use two sets of feet to help prevent the right side of the g502 from dragging on the pad if I accidentally tilt it to the right. 1.2mm of feet. still works perfectly if I use factory default tuning.
> 
> But my LOD is like less than 0.5mm with that setup.


No because my G303 doesnt tilt but the bezels around the skates will drag at times.


----------



## Falkentyne

Mine doesn't tilt either, but if I do accidentally tilt it due to an uneven swipe, it can scrape on the pad because of the ridged "Triangle" pattern etched into the shell plastic. If that touches the pad, it causes extra drag and scrapes. The bottom of the Deathadder, for example, is smooth glossy plastic, so if it touches the pad due to an accidental tilt, it still glides without any loss of friction. Since the G502 has triangle shape designs etched into the bottom (instead of being glossy smooth like front part of the back of the mouse is, by the cord area), a 2nd layer of feet gives me more distance so I have some margin of error for tilting from a bad swipe. Those triangle grooves are really unnecessary though and serve no purpose. That's my only complaint about the mouse (g502).


----------



## qsxcv

amazon.com search mouse tape


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Mine doesn't tilt either, but if I do accidentally tilt it due to an uneven swipe, it can scrape on the pad because of the ridged "Triangle" pattern etched into the shell plastic. If that touches the pad, it causes extra drag and scrapes. The bottom of the Deathadder, for example, is smooth glossy plastic, so if it touches the pad due to an accidental tilt, it still glides without any loss of friction. Since the G502 has triangle shape designs etched into the bottom (instead of being glossy smooth like front part of the back of the mouse is, by the cord area), a 2nd layer of feet gives me more distance so I have some margin of error for tilting from a bad swipe. Those triangle grooves are really unnecessary though and serve no purpose. That's my only complaint about the mouse (g502).


Pretty much all my gripes with the G303. I do at times wish the buttons extend a bit further back for a more pronouced fingertip grip.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Do you guys think its possible to swap the G303's cable with a DA 4G's?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Do you guys think its possible to swap the G303's cable with a DA 4G's?


I use a G302 (so not a G303). I swapped the cable with the one from an old Razer Salmosa. I had to rearrange the wires in the connector. They were not in the same order as for Logitech.

The coloring for the wires was the same, so there was no need for guessing (there are two black wires but one of them is a bit thicker than the other one). The plastic of the connector was very similar and did fit into the header on the G302's PCB. It was overall very doable but a bit finicky to cleanly get the wires out of the casing and back inside without destroying things.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Welp looks like I should just RMA my G303 ;w; it stopped working last week which I suspect is from a faulty cable. Now if only support would reply to my ticket.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3366 die:
> 
> 
> sensor array on right
> 
> i couldn't make out the pixels in the array with my eyes or with camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the dust on it is fiberglass since yesterday i was using a fiberglass pen to try to remove some silkscreen on the g303 pcb to figure out how things are routed


got magnifying glass


















so much dust









looks like 3366 pixel array is 40x40


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> got magnifying glass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so much dust
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like 3366 pixel array is 40x40






Such lewd integrated circuit porn.


----------



## qsxcv

there, now you can count every pixel. it's 40x40


----------



## Derp

Great work qsxcv.


----------



## Melan

Great work indeed.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 
> 
> there, now you can count every pixel. it's 40x40


Wow! How did you get that so clean?
I assume, then, that the best CPI setting would be 1,600 or so?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Wow! How did you get that so clean?
> I assume, then, that the best CPI setting would be 1,600 or so?


No. There is no "best" setting. And image resolution is not = CPI.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Wow! How did you get that so clean?
> I assume, then, that the best CPI setting would be 1,600 or so?


40x40=1600 has nothing to do with cpi

for the same reason that a 1920x1080 monitor has nothing to do with 2073600dpi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There is no "best" setting.


if we define the hardware cpi as the cpi for which a shift of one pixel in image from the pixel array exactly equates to one count of motion, would that be the best in some sense? i'd imagine that, for example, if the hardware cpi is 800, 800 would be a better option than 850


----------



## Falkentyne

I Know what he's trying to ask, though. And even if his premise is wrong, I understand his reasoning.

It's like knowing that 125hz and 250hz polling rate on a mouse is smooth at 125hz refresh rate (desktop) while (meant 120hz not 125hz), 500hz at 125hz refresh rate is glass smooth; 120hz at 500hz polling isn't as smooth.

meanwhile, 500hz on a 100hz desktop is awesome (1000hz should be just as awesome but the unsteady polling jumps from 996 to 1004 constantly throw that off), while 125hz and 250hz are terrible at 100hz refresh rate.

But that makes sense since polling rate and refresh rate intervals can be logically linked. Array size and DPI (counts per inch), however....


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> It's like knowing that 125hz and 250hz polling rate on a mouse is smooth at 125hz refresh rate (desktop) while 500hz is awful on that, while 1000hz isn't that much better.


uwotm8??

500/125 = 4
1000/125 = 8
they're integers just like 250/125 = 2


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> uwotm8??
> 
> 500/125 = 4
> 1000/125 = 8
> they're integers just like 250/125 = 2


Yes you're right, however 125 does not divide into 100 at all.
I'm talking about 125 hz polling rate into a 100hz refresh rate monitor.
Try it, it stutters like mad.

Then try 125 hz polling rate into 125hz refresh rate (you can create a custom 125hz refresh rate easily). Glass smooth (Divider is 125/125=1).

Then try 250 hz polling rate into 125hz refresh rate.
The divider is even (250/125=2) so its glass smooth.

But 100 into 125 causes stutters due to uneven refresh/poll sync.
That's what I mean.

And yes, you are right about 1000hz polling rate into 125hz refresh rate. but it doesn't look at smooth because the polling doesn't remain STEADY AT 1000hz.

That's why 120hz refresh rate sucks. it has no even divider into any mouse polling rate, while 125hz has (125 and 250, and 500) and 100hz has 500hz (500/100=5) still even sync=no stutters, even though 1000hz works too--but----.

And my 'complaint' about 1000hz polling rate at 100hz refresh rate is, despite the 1ms gain of input lag you get compared to 500hz polling rate, 1000hz is usually less smooth (lots of jumps from 994 to 1006, etc).

You people will have trouble testing this to see the 1000hz jitters unless you use ULMB, and I don't know if ULMB will strobe correctly at 125hz, even if you try to activate it (assuming your monitor can ULMB at 120hz already). It's easy with Benq blur reduction, though


----------



## Falkentyne

(mistake)


----------



## qsxcv

yup and the same principles apply to sensor framerate vs usb polling
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> And my 'complaint' about 1000hz polling rate at 100hz refresh rate is, despite the 1ms gain of input lag you get compared to 500hz polling rate, 1000hz is usually less smooth (lots of jumps from 994 to 1006, etc).


this is not the correct way to look at things.

jitter/small scale stability should be measured in units of time.
in mousemovementrecorder (or whatever) the hz value is actually just the inverse of the previous polling period. actually this number is pretty meaningless as frequency isn't well defined when you're just considering one interval.

so seeing a 994hz in mousemovementrecorder actually means there was a 1.006ms polling period which is 6us off the perfect value of 1ms.

now for 500hz/2ms polling, if you have a 2.006ms polling period, mousemovementrecorder would show 1000/2.006 = 498.5hz so 498 or 499hz, which looks a lot closer to 500hz than 994hz does to 1000hz


----------



## L4dd

If someone wants to compute the math knowing so, please do, but I understand what you say about image resolution versus CPI.

Logitech could simply tell us...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Logitech could simply tell us...


They could have told us what the array was too but instead qsxcv had to murder a mouse.

R.I.P. G303.


----------



## povohat

Finally got my hands on a G303 today. I was skeptical about whether it was worth an upgrade from a G302 (as somebody who rarely exceeds 3m/s) but I was pleasantly surprised to find the tracking quality to be significantly better. So far I've been driverless but I might install it just to turn off the lights to avoid the annoyance of catching those pwm dimmed leds flickering in my peripheral.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Do you guys think its possible to swap the G303's cable with a DA 4G's?


I swapped the cable with g302, there is about two inches of cable that runs under the pcb itself that Logitech has sleeved..I'd assume most other cables would be too thick for it to work well. Make sure you have a tiny Phillips head screw driver.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The DA 2013's cable is almost half as thin as the G303's


----------



## zeflow

The braided portion of the g303's cable is not on the inside of the mouse at all. The part of the cable that goes under the pcb is almost flat, you may get another cable to work but it has to be quite thin for the pcb to sit flat inside the shell.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Sorry if it has already been asked and answered before, but I don't feel like going through hundreds of pages.

Is the G303 viable for a dominant claw grip for someone with average/slightly small hands?


----------



## Melan

I'd say yes. I claw it no problem with my 19cm hands.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> If someone wants to compute the math knowing so, please do, but I understand what you say about image resolution versus CPI.
> 
> Logitech could simply tell us...


I think there's no math to do here. Those numbers you want to compare each exist in a different space.

Look at this: If everything would be measured in dots-per-centimeter instead of dots-per-inch, what would you have asked then? You'd have asked if you should set 1600 dots-per-centimeter. In the real world, this would be a very different measurement compared to the 1600 dpi from the question you had right now.


----------



## uNfEiL

My G303's DPI button rattles and everytime I lift the mouse and put it back on the pad it rattles and that thing really bothers me a lot. Also there is like small hole in the rear feet skate. Does anyone experienced it? Or just defective unit?


----------



## qsxcv

mine was loose but didn't really rattle

how small do you mean by small? if it's a soft depression near the center, it's because there's a hole for the screw below


----------



## uNfEiL

Yeah might be, not sure though. Will upload a video tomorrow.


----------



## dwnfall

Is this easy to spam click? Looks interesting but I need a mouse that is easy to click (Arthritis issues)


----------



## uNfEiL

It actually is. Sometimes I even accidentally click (but I guess it's because I'm used to palm and G303 forces me to use finger rather).


----------



## dwnfall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> It actually is. Sometimes I even accidentally click (but I guess it's because I'm used to palm and G303 forces me to use finger rather).


Awesome, going to purchase one and see what I think!


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I think there's no math to do here. Those numbers you want to compare each exist in a different space.
> 
> Look at this: If everything would be measured in dots-per-centimeter instead of dots-per-inch, what would you have asked then? You'd have asked if you should set 1600 dots-per-centimeter. In the real world, this would be a very different measurement compared to the 1600 dpi from the question you had right now.


It would be proportionate to the difference of centimeters from inches, then.

I still see the relevance of the array size being 40x40 and using a setting about 1,600 counts per inch...


----------



## qsxcv

not sure if troll


----------



## Falkentyne

What's the array size of the MLT04, anyway? 19x19 ?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> not sure if troll


This article is all that I can find regarding this at the moment, so I appreciate insight other than vagueness:
http://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/#page-1


----------



## qsxcv

40 is a number and has no units of length

what you're saying is about as logically disconnected as saying 6000frames/seconds = 6000dpi

theyre completely different units

actually the article explains it perfectly
Quote:


> The resolution is not the number of pixels. It's the size of the pixel on the table. So you take only one pixel and you image it, because there is a lens and optical system, and you [determine how] big is this pixel on the table. Then you [determine] how many can you put in one inch?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> What's the array size of the MLT04, anyway? 19x19 ?


22x22 iirc


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 40 is a number and has no units of length
> 
> what you're saying is about as logically disconnected as saying 6000frames/seconds = 6000dpi


You gave measurements using those graphs of counts via Mouse Tester to determine frames per second, but you're using this example like I'm "trolling"?

I admit to not fully comprehending the linked article when it gives 840 CPI as the example, so I'm asking here, since you seem knowledgeable enough to probably know.

Again, Logitech could tell us this...


----------



## qsxcv

the 840 number comes from the example of 30micron pixels

one inch/30microns = 25.4mm/0.030mm = 846.66...

actually i estimated the size of the pixels by comparing to the pin spacing in the image and it is almost exactly 30microns


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> What's the array size of the MLT04, anyway? 19x19 ?


22*22

@L4dd

It really depends on how big of a portion of the surface is getting looked at by the sensor.

from the article you linked:

Morier: "In optical sensing, [resolution is] completely different than your camera. Your camera has a resolution of the number of pixels times the number of pixels that the pixel array has. The optical sensor is not that. *The resolution is not the number of pixels. It's the size of the pixel on the table. So you take only one pixel and you image it, because there is a lens and optical system, and you [determine how] big is this pixel on the table*. Then you [determine] how many can you put in one inch? And this is the resolution.

What he says afterwords is a bit of a generalization, as lens and height influence the size of the pixel on the surface, not only it's physical dimension.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the 840 number comes from the example of 30micron pixels
> 
> one inch/30microns = 25.4mm/0.030mm = 846.66...
> 
> actually i estimated the size of the pixels by comparing to the pin spacing in the image and it is almost exactly 30microns


Does this mean that since you claim that the pixels are 30 microns in size, the best setting should be 846 or so?
If so, 1,600 CPI should be good, too, since the DeathAdders performed well at 1,800 CPI?

Also, what's the pixel size "on the table" for each DeathAdder 3G/3.5G/BE pixel?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Does this mean that since you claim that the pixels are 30 microns in size, the best setting should be 846 or so?
> If so, 1,600 CPI should be good, too, since the DeathAdders performed well at 1,800 CPI?
> 
> Also, what's the pixel size "on the table" for each DeathAdder 3G/3.5G/BE pixel?


There's also the lens in front of the sensor, and we don't know what's up with that. The shape of that area on the table where the light that falls into a sensor pixel comes from is transformed by that lens and is then a different size.


----------



## uNfEiL

Is this normal?





DPI button rattles and there's a little hole in the rear (and front) feet skate.


----------



## qsxcv

mine was a bit tighter than that but still loose

thw scratch on the feet is probably just random


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I think thats just the depression from where one of the screws holding the mouse is.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> there, now you can count every pixel. it's 40x40


I didn't expect that many, but I knew it was more than any other sensor. I thought it was 35x35 until I seen the default settings.

Imagine the resolution difference of the 3366 compared to a MLT-04. The MLT only has 22x22, running at 9000 FPS. Drawing straight lines on the 3366 should be a lot easier.

I think the 3988 is 30x30, running at 12000 FPS. Which would make sense considering the "smoothing" that it supposedly has.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> What's the array size of the MLT04, anyway? 19x19 ?


I think the 3050 is 19x19.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Does this mean that since you claim that the pixels are 30 microns in size, the best setting should be 846 or so?
> If so, 1,600 CPI should be good, too, since the DeathAdders performed well at 1,800 CPI?
> 
> Also, what's the pixel size "on the table" for each DeathAdder 3G/3.5G/BE pixel?


Things that determine CPI: lens magnification, sensor height, array size, LED intensity and thickness of the feet.

40x40 is the array size. Measuring the current CPI of your mouse, then using a custom setting to get 1600 wouldn't be right. There is a reason for the default steps provided out of the box.

I think all the DeathAdders have been 30x30.


----------



## qsxcv

the question is whether the deviations from straight lines on the mlt04 are actual deviations or noise due to the low resolution

yea i think 9800/3988/3310 are all 30x30 and only 3310 is limited to 6500fps


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It's a medium sized mouse actually and weighs almost 90 grams. Not really small.
> 
> It is -NOT- a palm mouse though. It's a claw mouse with the ability to fingertip it.


From the dimensions posted it is even smaller than the razer krait, which is travel mouse sized... I don't think you could call this a medium sized mouse. It might weigh nearly 90g, but dimensions wise it is tiny.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

For reference the G303 is about the size of a G100S. So basically its the size of your typical office mouse that's super dense.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> For reference the G303 is about the size of a G100S. So basically its the size of your typical office mouse that's super dense.


The G303 is much wider than the g100s because of the flares on the sides.


----------



## deepor

I tried to compare and things are strange.

I just took out my old MX300 to compare with my G302. I think the MX300 is the same shape as the G100s?

When you line up the two mice by where the wheel is, the G302 is a lot shorter in the back. At the same time, it is a bit higher in the area where it might dig into the palm, so does not feel smaller in the back.

Those flares on the side are wider than the MX300 at that spot, but I grab the mouse further in the front, and there the G302 is a lot thinner.

I can't really say which mouse feels smaller to me. I'm confused because the G302 kind of feels smaller because I have the thumb and my right-side fingers closer together, but at the same time there's more of the mouse to grab onto to move it around and lift it.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I tried to compare and things are strange.
> 
> I just took out my old MX300 to compare with my G302. I think the MX300 is the same shape as the G100s?
> 
> When you line up the two mice by where the wheel is, the G302 is a lot shorter in the back. At the same time, it is a bit higher in the area where it might dig into the palm, so does not feel smaller in the back.
> 
> Those flares on the side are wider than the MX300 at that spot, but I grab the mouse further in the front, and there the G302 is a lot thinner.
> 
> I can't really say which mouse feels smaller to me. I'm confused because the G302 kind of feels smaller because I have the thumb and my right-side fingers closer together, but at the same time there's more of the mouse to grab onto to move it around and lift it.


Comparing the G100s and G303, I think that the G100s feels bigger because I feel that it fills my hand more than the G303


----------



## dRock211

I'm going to do a mini-review in this comment (maybe full review later).

The Logitech G303 has the best left/right clicks I have ever felt in my life. It also boasts the most comfortable coating I've ever used (sweaty or dry, been through both lol). This is coming from someone who has used the Logitech G502, G500S, Deathadder Chroma, Naga Hex and Zowie FK1.

The sensor is flawless when non-bugged (when I swipe sometimes it does a 180 for me and shoots up towards the ceiling in CS:GO). This happens when I tilt the mouse slightly while flicking. I had this issue on my G502 as well.

Click latency is the lowest on the market (Logitech is known for having ultra-responsive switches).

The shape/weight of the mouse is pretty damn good to me. Some people dislike the aggressive tapering along the sides of the mouse and it's small size, but I find that the shape allows me to grip the mouse in clutch situations without changing my hand position (I usually tighten up on my Deathadder into a full claw). In addition, the small form factor combined with the 86 gram weight means that despite being extremely light, the weight is well balanced in the center of the tiny mouse. This allows me to palm/claw the mouse (I have relatively large hands at 21cm long, as well as large palms) and still have a lot of skin contact with my QcK Heavy, which I think helps my accuracy a little bit.

The cord is your standard braided cord. It doesn't tangle but I still prefer a light rubber coated cord. Banter. That about wraps it up.

Yours truly,

DerocK

P.S. the RBG lighting looks alright.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Things that determine CPI: lens magnification, sensor height, array size, LED intensity and thickness of the feet.
> 
> 40x40 is the array size. Measuring the current CPI of your mouse, then using a custom setting to get 1600 wouldn't be right. There is a reason for the default steps provided out of the box.
> 
> I think all the DeathAdders have been 30x30.


The 3366 has the largest array of any mouse sensor, then?

I should have clearly stated that since the 3366 has 1,600 pixels in its array, it should in theory outperform other mice at 1,600 CPI or so; that's what I meant, and I stated that I understand the relation between its array size not being CPI...


----------



## qsxcv

there's nothing special about 1600dpi but yea the more information the sensor can get and process, the less error it has.
i think that in theory/on paper it outperforms every other image-correlation based mouse sensor in pretty much every way

ofc people have differing personal opinions about things and people here like to shove their own opinions onto others and go back and forth in pointless discussions


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> there's nothing special about 1600dpi but yea the more information the sensor can get and process, the less error it has.


Thank you! This is what I meant, but I believed that there was a relation between how many times the pixels are divided and the CPI being multiples of 800, such as 1,600 and 2,400. It defaults to 2,400 CPI, too, so I was wondering about this.

Edit: *Falkentyne* said something similar, but with report rates.

This is probably not an issue like *Ino* stated.

At what point would the CPI be so high that noise from dividing pixels would be introduced?


----------



## johnsamuels

A request of those who have a g303, any chance you could post a side by side pic with a Kana, Sensei, deathadder or WMO (if you have one of them on hand) ?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Thank you! This is what I meant, but I believed that there was a relation between how many times the pixels are divided and the CPI being multiples of 800, such as 1,600 and 2,400. It defaults to 2,400 CPI, too, so I was wondering about this.
> 
> Edit: *Falkentyne* said something similar, but with report rates.
> 
> This is probably not an issue like *Ino* stated.
> 
> At what point would the CPI be so high that noise from dividing pixels would be introduced?


draw lines/circles in mspaint and see

for fps games it's not as big of a deal as you drop your sens for higher dpis


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> A request of those who have a g303, any chance you could post a side by side pic with a Kana, Sensei, deathadder or WMO (if you have one of them on hand) ?


Here is my G303 gallery.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> A request of those who have a g303, any chance you could post a side by side pic with a Kana, Sensei, deathadder or WMO (if you have one of them on hand) ?


----------



## Nievin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dRock211*
> 
> The sensor is flawless when non-bugged (when I swipe sometimes it does a 180 for me and shoots up towards the ceiling in CS:GO). This happens when I tilt the mouse slightly while flicking. I had this issue on my G502 as well.


If you set your surface tuning to default this bug will go away.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> The 3366 has the largest array of any mouse sensor, then?


Yes. At least from any Avago or PixArt sensor.

The more facts I know about the 3366, the more impressive it is (to me). I don't know why Logitech wants to hide the details about the 3366.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Mouse porn. Anyways its not much wider.


----------



## Frenchy

Can someone summarize this thread of more than 300 pages because I received the G303
I would like a synthesis of all that has been said here









My laptop gamer asus rog jyg751 with nvidia 980 gtx and my 2 g9x (one is like new never use) + my new G303











The hype on this mouse is real i notice a little difference in tracking i think its because the mouse is lighter but the sensor is very reactive.

I use it in Quake Live a 1000 dpi with 1 sensi and 0 accel and windows cursor control disable with in_mouse 2

With my g9x my old sensi setting was 400 dpi with 2.21 sensi in game option and always in_mouse 2 and cl_mouseaccel 0

Now i must test the G303 with 400 dpi or 200 and a sensi of 2.21

I stay always bad in duel and lost always with score of 39-2 but im better than bot with nightmare difficulty level !









Contrary to what I read on this forum and ESReality cliques have exactly the same feel and quality as on the G9X stop say bull**** about how great the G302/G303 are i think it's a forumer who is paid by marketing Logitech team who write these lies.

I think i'm a huge fan of Huno on Kinzu it feel more tactile like mecanical keyboard but clicks on G9x and G303 stay top notch one of best implementation of Omron in all gaming mouse with number one best implementation the Rival ( i don't know if it has Omron)

I want compare my g303 with intellimouse explorer 3.0 and 1.1 for feel what is the king of gaming mouse !

I think the MLT04 of IE3.0 is still the best sensor because all best Quake Live players play and win with it i must test for know the truth









The shape of G303 is natural of fan of G9x and it feels very natural to switch between them it's incredible of natural i must compare with ZA13 for see what mice of 2015 has the best shape for Quake the G303 is top for claw grip finger even for palmgrip !!

I chose this mouse especially for its small size and light weight but the cord SUCK A LOT !! why braided cord i hate that its not for gamer it's for fan of macdonald big mac not for agile pro gamer who like play like ninja









And that cord is TOO BIG why not keep the excellent NORMAL plastic cord of g302 it was awesome perfect better ! What a WASTE !!

I use the G303 that for an hour I have to test longer to get a better review.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frenchy*
> 
> Can someone summarize this thread of more than 300 pages because I received the G303
> I would like a synthesis of all that has been said here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My laptop gamer asus rog jyg751 with nvidia 980 gtx and my 2 g9x (one is like new never use) + my new G303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hype on this mouse is real i little difference but real in tracking i think its becouse the mouse is lighter but the sensor is very reactive
> 
> I use it in Quake Live a 1000 dpi with 1 sensi and 0 accel and windows cursor control disable with in_mouse 2
> 
> I stay always bad in duel and lost always with score of 39-2 but im better than bot with nightmare difficulty level !


You already lost the battle by having a laptop. Nothing you do short of getting a desktop will ever lower the inherent input lag in laptops. You might as well have gotten a Logitech MX Master.


----------



## Frenchy

I have already a desktop but it is about to die with GPU nvidia 9500 gt and his cpu Athlon AMD Athlon II X2 245 Dual-Core 2.9GHz a seagate 7500 tours/min and 2 go of RAM and a screen asus VK22h









I did not know for input lag but I think I'll check with my laptop there are less than on my old...

EDIT : I applied this guide http://superuser.com/questions/445971/disable-aero-on-windows-8 to disable aero it became much faster but the letters have become much more difficult to read I am not a superuser


----------



## johnsamuels

Thanks very much uNfEiL and jaffa2843.

uNfEiL which version of the DA is that in the photo there?

303 looks way bigger than I expected from the dimensions...


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> A request of those who have a g303, any chance you could post a side by side pic with a Kana, Sensei, deathadder or WMO (if you have one of them on hand) ?


Sensei, WMO, G303, Kana V1


----------



## Trull

@Frenchy

Can't believe you paid 70€ for that thing. I don't care if it's the best mouse ever (which it probably isn't), I ain't paying 70€ for it.

For QL you're basically better off with a WMO/IE3.0, a G100s or an Abyssus 2014. But anyway, duel is not really the best benchmark for a good mouse, a better player with the worse mouse will always win against a worse player with the better mouse. What level are you playing at?


----------



## Nunex

Any good skates for this mouse already?

I want to change mine.

On-topic: I love the shape.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> On-topic: I love the shape.


MOBA player?


----------



## Nunex

yes


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nunex*
> 
> yes


Well, that would explain it since the shape is meant for MOBA players.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Well, that would explain it since the shape is meant for MOBA players.


Not necessarily, I play mobas and I really dislike the shape. The components are fantastic, but the shape feels like it's always on the verge of slipping out of my hand (fingertip grip).


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Not necessarily, I play mobas and I really dislike the shape. The components are fantastic, but the shape feels like it's always on the verge of slipping out of my hand (fingertip grip).


It explains him liking it. And X number of other people, presumably most of them MOBA players.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> It explains him liking it. And X number of other people, presumably most of them MOBA players.


I'm guessing most of them 'like' it because C9 uses them...


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I'm guessing most of them 'like' it because C9 uses them...


I think the majority of us like because of the perfect clicks/switches and amazing sensor...the shape is what it is..but it is suitable for claw, palm/claw hybrid, and fingertip grips. I can tell you even for fps it's the best smaller ambi mouse on the market because of the reasons stated above.

I play cs:go at a decent level, and Palm/claw hybrid with no issues of re adjusting my grip or feeling like I have less control, although I would prefer the mx300 shape (with side buttons).


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I'm guessing most of them 'like' it because C9 uses them...


I found out that C9 and TSM uses it after I made my purchase and started using it for daily gaming. COuld care less what they do, at most I have ever done is google some hardware that a pro used that I wasn't familiar yet. Yet to base a decision on their usage.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> It explains him liking it. And X number of other people, presumably most of them MOBA players.


I would think it'd be because their hand shape can accomodate it rather than a set of gaming genre players. I'm okay with the shape in short to medium length use but not long durations. Shapes like Zowie FK are much better, more comfortable for my meaty hand, short finger lengths. But we all know it's a to each their own sort of thing.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> Thanks very much uNfEiL and jaffa2843.
> 
> uNfEiL which version of the DA is that in the photo there?
> 
> 303 looks way bigger than I expected from the dimensions...


Chroma


----------



## Frenchy

Quote:


> What level are you playing at?


My level is still bad i have only only 1 month of Quake Live exp but
I think turn pro soon enough may not be the best but in the top 100.

These is my stat in duel but im not good i must find my real sensi and movestyle : http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/frenchyaya

But i'm excellent in other games mods like instafreeze or team arena with sometimes 70% of accuracy with railgun with my venerable G9x









I come from Crysis Wars my favorite game and first fps when i play in ESL level


----------



## zeflow

My g303 with modded cable from the 302. Was having issues with it catching on my artisan hayate otsu.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frenchy*
> 
> My level is still bad i have only only 1 month of Quake Live exp but
> *I think turn pro soon enough may not be the best but in the top 100.*
> 
> These is my stat in duel but im not good i must find my real sensi and movestyle : http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/frenchyaya


Hmm, top 100 (I assume you mean for FRA) is not even close to pro level, it's much closer to beginner level. But sure, you can get there quite easily since not many people played the game.

(Not to mention that you need years of experience to even become "good").


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> My g303 with modded cable from the 302. Was having issues with it catching on my artisan hayate otsu.


The cable was catching on my Artisan Hien and it was starting to fray because of it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The cable was catching on my Artisan Hien and it was starting to fray because of it.


Same issue here with my Roccat Hiro. My DA 2013 never had that issue due to its finer weave which is why Im comtemplating swapping the cable.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frenchy*
> 
> My level is still bad i have only only 1 month of Quake Live exp but
> I think turn pro soon enough may not be the best but in the top 100.
> 
> These is my stat in duel but im not good i must find my real sensi and movestyle : http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/frenchyaya
> 
> But i'm excellent in other games mods like instafreeze or team arena with sometimes 70% of accuracy with railgun with my venerable G9x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I come from Crysis Wars my favorite game and first fps when i play in ESL level


I can't believe I just read that...

Btw who even still plays QL after the steam sellout?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Isnt 99% of the people here either CS players or MOBA players? (Clearly Im exaggerating the numbers but you get my point)


----------



## Falkentyne

Implying that there's anything else even worth playing these days......

StarCraft 2? *cough* People still play that "permanently disable your wrist and put you in the hospital* game?
CS:Go? Mobas? Sure.

Unreal Tournament 2015? (Well...pre alpha).
Quake Live? Oh, Please.

Everything else is either a 1) RPG, 2) COD clone.


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Implying that there's anything else even worth playing these days......
> 
> StarCraft 2? *cough* People still play that "permanently disable your wrist and put you in the hospital* game?
> CS:Go? Mobas? Sure.
> 
> Unreal Tournament 2015? (Well...pre alpha).
> Quake Live? Oh, Please.
> 
> Everything else is either a 1) RPG, 2) COD clone.


Sad, but true.


----------



## Mych

Well, there are good and varied games apart from the big ones, they just tend to have small and struggling player communities and might not satisfy if one wants that super pro-gaming experience. Personally I currently like Warband and Dirty Bomb which are quite different from popular games and each other. But in the end... opinions, opinions.

More on topic:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Feels good. Testing and tweaking. (G30*2*+G1.)


----------



## Trull

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mych*
> 
> More on topic:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Feels good. Testing and tweaking. (G30*2*+G1.)


Looks really good, actually.


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trull*
> 
> Looks really good, actually.


Thanks. And if someone wants to do the same, the gaps can probably be avoided/diminished by simply leaving more of G1's upper shell intact. I just tried something else first and had only half of it left. Should be quite doable with g303, too. Haven't tried yet, though.


----------



## swirf

So you cut the front off a g1, Slide the front of the g302/3 in glue it together line the sensor up properly. Do you remove the sensor or cut the back off the g303 ?. Also do you think that would work with the kana v2 shell my mwheel just recently broke on it.


----------



## Mych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swirf*
> 
> So you cut the front off a g1, Slide the front of the g302/3 in glue it together line the sensor up properly. Do you remove the sensor or cut the back off the g303 ?. Also do you think that would work with the kana v2 shell my mwheel just recently broke on it.


Rest of the pics are here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1401294/the-unspecific-mouse-thread/110. Basically shell of G1 plus button system, pcb and lens thingies of G302 plus custom thumb button (slightly different from pics, had to repair).

Not sure about Kana, yes if length and height allow it. Looks doable at first glance but I don't own a Kana. Attaching G302's button part to the upper shell will take up some space. It will probably be somewhat trickier than G1, Logitech mice share certain structural features.


----------



## Frenchy

Finally I think I don't like G303 the main con are cliques that I find is responsive and a little hard to my taste in same time because I like violently push the buttons and hold down violently.

I find them too inacurate because i accidentaly double click the left click very often this is a serious issue and I hate mice with too low lod (1cd) i like a lot high lod (laser and razer infrared optical have the hightest lod i have ever test)

For me at this moment this mouse is a total disappointment I tried to put mouseskates coredpad over and the sensor could not follow a smoothly my movements









I wonder if I will not get a refund by amazon and take a za 13 FK2 or abyssus (because I like the high LOD).

My G9x is still my most accurate mouse for sensor and shape i ever have i keep my second g9x like expensive treasure !!









I've tested my G303 on a goliathus xl and a puretack talent he remains for me to test my speed gtf.

For now this G303 is a small disappointment I find it not suitable for fps and it's only clawgrip not god for my habitual hybrid grip palm-claw grip in the same time i think the big but of g9x 1st shell are best suited for my need (70% accuracy with LG but the high lod with my nice coredpad skates play a important role for that)









I must test Intellimouse 1.1, 3.0, Abyssus, ZA13 and very low clothpad like Qck+ and goliathus Large because i hate the friction of the edge of the mat with my wrist but the Talent stay the best pad i have for AIM but this issue makes it less suitable for serious gaming.

Mice that come to mind for my needs are Zowie ZA13 and FK2 and Raez Abyssus.
I would continue to test it and I would say if my negative opinion has not changed

EDIT : I play on my screen laptop i think the g303 is too reactive and inaccurate for little screen i can AIM better with my G9x at 1000hz. 1000 hz suck with G303 i must test at 500hz I'm still not used enough.

Conclusion : i think bad sensor are the best Quake Live


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Out of curiousity how do I tell the difference between a WMO with the MLT04 and the one with the poor sensor. I plan to buy one in the very near future from ebay and most of them are quite vague on which model it is.


----------



## kd5151

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frenchy*
> 
> Finally I think I don't like G303 the main con are cliques that I find is responsive and a little hard to my taste in same time because I like violently push the buttons and hold down violently.
> 
> I find them too inacurate because i accidentaly double click the left click very often this is a serious issue and I hate mice with too low lod (1cd) i like a lot high lod (laser and razer infrared optical have the hightest lod i have ever test)
> 
> For me at this moment this mouse is a total disappointment I tried to put mouseskates coredpad over and the sensor could not follow a smoothly my movements
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if I will not get a refund by amazon and take a za 13 FK2 or abyssus (because I like the high LOD).
> 
> My G9x is still my most accurate mouse for sensor and shape i ever have i keep my second g9x like expensive treasure !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've tested my G303 on a goliathus xl and a puretack talent he remains for me to test my speed gtf.
> 
> For now this G303 is a small disappointment I find it not suitable for fps and it's only clawgrip not god for my habitual hybrid grip palm-claw grip in the same time i think the big but of g9x 1st shell are best suited for my need (70% accuracy with LG but the high lod with my nice coredpad skates play a important role for that)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must test Intellimouse 1.1, 3.0, Abyssus, ZA13 and very low clothpad like Qck+ and goliathus Large because i hate the friction of the edge of the mat with my wrist but the Talent stay the best pad i have for AIM but this issue makes it less suitable for serious gaming.
> 
> Mice that come to mind for my needs are Zowie ZA13 and FK2 and Raez Abyssus.
> I would continue to test it and I would say if my negative opinion has not changed
> 
> EDIT : I play on my screen laptop i think the g303 is too reactive and inaccurate for little screen i can AIM better with my G9x at 1000hz. 1000 hz suck with G303 i must test at 500hz I'm still not used enough.
> 
> Conclusion : i think bad sensor are the best Quake Live


I just got the G303 also and I'm thinking the same thing as you. It's a very responsive and sensitive little mouse. The clicks are nice and responsive for inside windows and maybe other games but I'm not sure if I like it in shooter games. I also noticed the clicks are not very fast. Lets say you're using a tek9 in cs. I can shoot faster with my Rival than I can with the g303?

Anyways yes the lift off distance is very very low which doesn't bother me. The mouse is light and glides great on my QCK. I'm still getting used to it and have only played around with it for a couple of hours. My biggest gripe is the scroll wheel and the mouse disconnected for a few seconds once on me while trying to change dpi settings in the software?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kd5151*
> 
> I just got the G303 also and I'm thinking the same thing as you. It's a very responsive and sensitive little mouse. The clicks are nice and responsive for inside windows and maybe other games but I'm not sure if I like it in shooter games. I also noticed the clicks are not very fast. Lets say you're using a tek9 in cs. I can shoot faster with my Rival than I can with the g303?


I click faster with the G303 than I do my Zowie mice. The speed would be similar to a DeathAdder, but a lot more consistent and with better feedback.


----------



## avalonmabi

Can anyone compare the size of the g303 to the roccat savu? It's currently on sale for $49.99 and I'm tempted to purchase one. Thanks.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kd5151*
> 
> I just got the G303 also and I'm thinking the same thing as you. It's a very responsive and sensitive little mouse. The clicks are nice and responsive for inside windows and maybe other games but I'm not sure if I like it in shooter games. I also noticed the clicks are not very fast. Lets say you're using a tek9 in cs. I can shoot faster with my Rival than I can with the g303?
> 
> Anyways yes the lift off distance is very very low which doesn't bother me. The mouse is light and glides great on my QCK. I'm still getting used to it and have only played around with it for a couple of hours. My biggest gripe is the scroll wheel and the mouse disconnected for a few seconds once on me while trying to change dpi settings in the software?


Maybe you should adjust your grip. On paper G302/303 should have the fastest clicks on the market due to the spring that allows it to reset faster.


----------



## detto87

Felt the same for me in the beginning with the buttons. They felt nice and responsive but fast tapping wasn't as easy to do as I'd like it. But now, after getting used to the mouse more and having a solid claw grip with it, I can spam like never before and of course important flicks or one-taps are just excellent. In general the buttons are just excellent. It's just the finger placement (result of mouse grip) that might hinder spamming them.

@kd5151: what's up with the wheel? I think it's one of the best to date! Ino came to a similar conclusion and praised it. It's just very nice tactility but still easy enough to scroll fast. Never had such a good wheel tbh and I had many including Deathadders and Mionix mice.


----------



## kd5151

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Felt the same for me in the beginning with the buttons. They felt nice and responsive but fast tapping wasn't as easy to do as I'd like it. But now, after getting used to the mouse more and having a solid claw grip with it, I can spam like never before and of course important flicks or one-taps are just excellent. In general the buttons are just excellent. It's just the finger placement (result of mouse grip) that might hinder spamming them.
> 
> @kd5151: what's up with the wheel? I think it's one of the best to date! Ino came to a similar conclusion and praised it. It's just very nice tactility but still easy enough to scroll fast. Never had such a good wheel tbh and I had many including Deathadders and Mionix mice.


It's not terrible by any means. It's small,quiet,and quick but feels a little loose to the touch. Some travel between one notch and the next notch. You can feel it when you scroll slowly. You can also make it not register a scroll if you move it super slow. This has been talked about before.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kd5151*
> 
> You can feel it when you scroll slowly. You can also make it not register a scroll if you move it super slow.


yup the optical encoder seems to be worse than the one in the g100s


----------



## Ino.

The wheel in the G303 is great imo, but the best wheels are found in roccat mice. Their mechanical encoder just gives a whole different feedback and tactility.


----------



## qsxcv

best wheel i've used is the (kailh?) mechanical encoder on the evga torq x5


----------



## e4stw00t

I disliked the X5's wheel a lot - way to little pronounced indentations and in general too flimsy when scrolling. Roccat wheels are probably the best ones I have ever experienced.


----------



## Derp

This collection just keeps growing!

The things people do in order to use the 3366 and the amazing m1/m2 buttons.



Spoiler: Nice shape Logitech


----------



## Frenchy

I'm starting to get used to the mouse and begin to appreciate more and more as it is the first time I've experienced such a reactive mouse by cliques and poling rate it's crazy I think this is the fastest mouse market for sensor/clicks
because I have not got used to use a mouse as fast as it is an excellent mouse that requires a big adjustment period as Quake Live.

This is not a mouse suitable for any uses that is not it adapts to the user is the user who must adapt and be worthy like a formula one car compared to 911 porshe.

So fast that I become inaccurate because I do not usually even speed.

Now the main con are :

-Too nervous grip and claw grip not as comfortable as the G9X with his shell but stay still an perfect shape for extreme claw grip users with big hands

- 1000 hz polling rate is too quick i got 125 hz when one is not accustomed to such a fast mouse down to 125 hz I find my old feeling with my previous G9X

- The buttons on the sides are too small and much less good, pleasant and natural (they feel like the DA too cheap clicky plastic activation) as the G9X that the side buttons are the best I've tested

- Click are so reactive that sometimes you double click the right click without meaning but it is the most accurate and quickest clicks of the market with Omron switches a manufacturing marvel as good as the wheel

The mains pros :

- The clicks imo the most reactive and tactile of the market but feels harder than normal Omron it's like some Huano's switches

- i think this mouse is perfect for rts because of his cliques but in fps i think Huano (for those who like to click viollement strongly push the buttons) but not sure.

I must buy a zowie and compare but not enough cash stranger : oriental arab/jew zombie seller is the best listen the oriental music at 0:07 for perfection














The g303 is the true Speedy Gonzales of the mice sisisi senioritaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aribaribaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa









I would write a review when I'm totally used to the G303 as for my G9X


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The wheel in the G303 is great imo, but the best wheels are found in roccat mice. Their mechanical encoder just gives a whole different feedback and tactility.


ALPS encoder.


----------



## TriviumKM

The new Logitech M320 would've been the perfect fingertip mouse had it had side buttons and the 3366 sensor. I like the g303, but I would take the 320 shape over it any day.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> The new Logitech M320 would've been the perfect fingertip mouse had it had side buttons and the 3366 sensor. I like the g303, but I would take the 320 shape over it any day.


The same can be said for many office grade mice. Office mice are designed for humans with human hands that have work to get done. _*Most*_ gaming mice are shaped like stealth bombers to attract teens.


----------



## brainzasif

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> The new Logitech M320 would've been the perfect fingertip mouse had it had side buttons and the 3366 sensor. I like the g303, but I would take the 320 shape over it any day.












Love the shape. :thumbup:


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The same can be said for many office grade mice. Office mice are designed for humans with human hands that have work to get done. _*Most*_ gaming mice are shaped like stealth bombers to attract teens.


A silly as it sounds, it's a good description lol.

Hence alot of people using brands such as Zowie on this forum: Simplistic and functional design over random stuff.

Not my favorite shape but that M320 does indeed look like a step up shapewise from the 303.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> The new Logitech M320 would've been the perfect fingertip mouse had it had side buttons and the 3366 sensor. I like the g303, but I would take the 320 shape over it any day.


Wow that mouse looks great!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Cable swapped with DA 2013 cable! Rip DA 2013
Edit decided to alter the shell with a heated forcep in order to route the cable so now it looks nice.

Final result:


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> I disliked the X5's wheel a lot - way to little pronounced indentations and in general too flimsy when scrolling. Roccat wheels are probably the best ones I have ever experienced.


might be a consistency issue

the wheel on my x5 laser is more like you described but the one on my x5 is perfect


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Wow that mouse looks great!


Really wished this was the G303 model, which I would of bought a whole shipment box of them direct from Logitech Central







.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I have a question for you sensor proficient people: If the sensor hole on the G303 was bigger how would it affect it performance-wise?


----------



## qsxcv

more dust more problems

otherwise it shouldn't matter at all


----------



## TUMME

Help me please. I want to buy this mouse, but I wonder that right side of the mouse will be uncomfortable for me. My hand is 16-17 cm and I use hybrid grip between palm and claw(my palm fully touching the mouse but fingers are half-bend), but I do not hold my mouse relaxed, when I playing I strongly clench it so I afraid that sharp right side will disturb(cant find the right word in english.. mb something like pierce







) phalanx of my ring finger... Can somebody with same type of grip say is it comfortable or not? thx







I would be grateful if somebody with same hand size can make a photo how they grip this mouse from right side and top.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUMME*
> 
> Help me please. I want to buy this mouse, but I wonder that right side of the mouse will be uncomfortable for me. My hand is 16-17 cm and I use hybrid grip between palm and claw(my palm fully touching the mouse but fingers are half-bend), but I do not hold my mouse relaxed, when I playing I strongly clench it so I afraid that sharp right side will disturb(cant find the right word in english.. mb something like pierce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) phalanx of my ring finger... Can somebody with same type of grip say is it comfortable or not? thx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be grateful if somebody with same hand size can make a photo how they grip this mouse from right side and top.


Lol dude are you me?







I mean I have the same hands as you do and I use the EXACTLY same grip as well (my palm fully touching the mouse but fingers are half-bend). Conclusion? Sorry for you to hear it man but and I find this mouse uncomfortable unfortunately. I really can't find a comfortable grip with it compared to my ergonomic MX518.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUMME*
> 
> Help me please. I want to buy this mouse, but I wonder that right side of the mouse will be uncomfortable for me. My hand is 16-17 cm and I use hybrid grip between palm and claw(my palm fully touching the mouse but fingers are half-bend), but I do not hold my mouse relaxed, when I playing I strongly clench it so I afraid that sharp right side will disturb(cant find the right word in english.. mb something like pierce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) phalanx of my ring finger... Can somebody with same type of grip say is it comfortable or not? thx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be grateful if somebody with same hand size can make a photo how they grip this mouse from right side and top.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Lol dude are you me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean I have the same hands as you do and I use the EXACTLY same grip as well (my palm fully touching the mouse but fingers are half-bend). Conclusion? Sorry for you to hear it man but and I find this mouse uncomfortable unfortunately. I really can't find a comfortable grip with it compared to my ergonomic MX518.


I have the same sized hands and the same palm-claw hybrid grip. I also strongly clench. I think alot of people use this kind of grip. It allows for very accurate movements because you CLENCH the mouse very hard. It's also the best grip for me because I have tiny hands.

FWIW, I have tried the G303 and it's pretty damn uncomfortable. It's a good mouse in every way except for shape. It just doesn't work. I wish it had the shape of the Zowie FK1. It's the perfect mouse for me but those Huanos freaking suck. I hate the latency.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> I have the same sized hands and the same palm-claw hybrid grip. I also strongly clench. I think alot of people use this kind of grip. It allows for very accurate movements because you CLENCH the mouse very hard. It's also the best grip for me because I have tiny hands.
> 
> FWIW, I have tried the G303 and it's pretty damn uncomfortable. It's a good mouse in every way except for shape. It just doesn't work. I wish it had the shape of the Zowie FK1. It's the perfect mouse for me but those Huanos freaking suck. I hate the latency.


Dude and which mouse are you using atm? I'm trying to find my mouse but no luck. I've tried several options (KPM too small, DA a little bigger than it should be for my taste, G303 bad shape) and so far the best option has been Zowie EC2-A. Not sure about it though, any suggestion?


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Dude and which mouse are you using atm? I'm trying to find my mouse but no luck. I've tried several options (KPM too small, DA a little bigger than it should be for my taste, G303 bad shape) and so far the best option has been Zowie EC2-A. Not sure about it though, any suggestion?


I'm using the *Zowie FK1* at the moment. It's perfect except for the Huano switches because they have too much latency. And I have the first version of FK1, the 2014 version, so the latency is even worse.

I'm waiting for *Ducky Secret* though, it looks very promising.


----------



## Melan

Switches have no latency. It's just a switch. Neither I can see any difference between my first batch FK1 and G303 when playing games. Less you bother about this crap, better you'll feel about it.


----------



## Melan

/facepalm


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Switches have no latency. It's just a switch. Neither I can see any difference between my first batch FK1 and G303 when playing games. Less you bother about this crap, better you'll feel about it.


It isn't huano switches with latency problems... You can replace them with omrons and it won't change anything. It is something with the MCU.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The MCU have debounce times aka latency. The switches themselves dont have latency other than pretravel which is negligible.


----------



## Melan

Debounce != latency. Debounce prevents you from getting double clicks. It has nothing to do with info getting from mouse to pc. It's purely related to the switch and nothing else.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUMME*
> 
> Help me please. I want to buy this mouse, but I wonder that right side of the mouse will be uncomfortable for me. My hand is 16-17 cm and I use hybrid grip between palm and claw(my palm fully touching the mouse but fingers are half-bend), but I do not hold my mouse relaxed, when I playing I strongly clench it so I afraid that sharp right side will disturb(cant find the right word in english.. mb something like pierce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) phalanx of my ring finger... Can somebody with same type of grip say is it comfortable or not? thx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be grateful if somebody with same hand size can make a photo how they grip this mouse from right side and top.


What mouse are you using atm?


----------



## TUMME

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> What mouse are you using atm?


temporarily KPM and right side is a bit uncomfortable for me. My favorite shape is Microsoft 3.0 but its close to imposible to get it now for me...


----------



## Melan

If you live in europe, maxfps had ime 3.0. Only thing is, paying 50+€ for obsolete tech is kinda meh.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If you live in europe, maxfps had ime 3.0. Only thing is, paying 50+€ for obsolete tech is kinda meh.


There's a bunch of WMO Steelseries mod on ebay. While the sensor in those aren't 9000 fps its still a MLT04


----------



## TUMME

50+€ for obsolete tech - thats the second reason why I dont want to buy it.


----------



## dwnfall

Well after reading this thread pretty sure I am not gonna order a 303 as planned.. hmm now what to choose..


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Agh it seems I have ruined my mouse skates with my little cable mod last night







Now the bezels are scraping even more ._.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Your head must be void of brain cells.
> There's a bunch of WMO Steelseries mod on ebay. While the sensor in those aren't 9000 fps its still a MLT04


The ones from Takasta are 9000fps...
(At least the ones without the multi-colored LED)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> The ones from Takasta are 9000fps...
> (At least the ones without the multi-colored LED)


Are the original generic black ones (non steelseries mod) also 9000 FPS?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Are the original generic black ones (non steelseries mod) also 9000 FPS?


The later MLT sensors are 9000 FPS. The refurbished [painted] mice can be 9000 FPS.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Are the original generic black ones (non steelseries mod) also 9000 FPS?


Ask the seller for pictures of the serial number. If it starts with x80 it's 9000 if it's x08 then 6000... wait when did this become another wmo/intellimouse thread?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Ask the seller for pictures of the serial number. If it starts with x80 it's 9000 if it's x08 then 6000... wait when did this become another wmo/intellimouse thread?


I guess when people held the G303.

After I returned the G303, I stated to use an Intellimouse again. The 125Hz polling restriction is really horrible. Also, my AWPing ability went down because of the malfunction speed [~1.5m/s].

I was contemplating using the G303's PCB inside an Intellimouse Optical. If I hack the front off the G303's PCB, is it possible to utilize the button PCB of the Intellimouse Optical with the G303's PCB?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I guess when people held the G303.
> 
> After I returned the G303, I stated to use an Intellimouse again. The 125Hz polling restriction is really horrible. Also, my AWPing ability went down because of the malfunction speed [~1.5m/s].
> 
> I was contemplating using the G303's PCB inside an Intellimouse Optical. If I hack the front off the G303's PCB, is it possible to utilize the button PCB of the Intellimouse Optical with the G303's PCB?


There was a thread with attempting something similar to that. He never posted any updates about it, so I assume he gave up. One of those "you're on your own".


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I guess when people held the G303.
> 
> After I returned the G303, I stated to use an Intellimouse again. The 125Hz polling restriction is really horrible. Also, my AWPing ability went down because of the malfunction speed [~1.5m/s].
> 
> I was contemplating using the G303's PCB inside an Intellimouse Optical. If I hack the front off the G303's PCB, is it possible to utilize the button PCB of the Intellimouse Optical with the G303's PCB?


yes possible

see
http://www.esreality.com/post/2625330/3310-on-sacrifice-wmo-shell/#pid2625419


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Ask the seller for pictures of the serial number. If it starts with x80 it's 9000 if it's x08 then 6000... wait when did this become another wmo/intellimouse thread?


Ordered one on ebay and it should come on Saturday. I will finally be able to compare the 3366 and the MLT04 side by side ^_^


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I guess when people held the G303.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I was contemplating using the G303's PCB inside an Intellimouse Optical. If I hack the front off the G303's PCB, is it possible to utilize the button PCB of the Intellimouse Optical with the G303's PCB?


Yes, just watch out not to cut this contact. (not 100% sure what it is, most probably has to do with the LEDs, but still I'd leave it there...)



Useful: Pinout of wmo's button pcb


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Ordered one on ebay and it should come on Saturday. I will finally be able to compare the 3366 and the MLT04 side by side ^_^


To me, the response is about the same and the tracking behavior is somewhat similar.

My old Intellimouse seems a little inaccurate compared to the G303. I can also notice the rest mode on the Intellimouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> To me, the response is about the same and the tracking behavior is somewhat similar.
> 
> My old Intellimouse seems a little inaccurate compared to the G303. I can also notice the rest mode on the Intellimouse.


Ehh if I find it is better than my G303 I will probably make it my daily driver. If not then I will most likely use the shell for modding.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Ehh if I find it is better than my G303 I will probably make it my daily driver. If not then I will most likely use the shell for modding.


It will feel bad if you don't change your polling rate of your PC. Also, the malfunction speed for my Intelimouse is ~1.55m/s.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It will feel bad if you don't change your polling rate of your PC. Also, the malfunction speed for my Intelimouse is ~1.55m/s.


How do I change it? And as for malfunction speed I dont think I will reach it unless Im swiping to do a 180. How does the sensor behave when it fails?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> How do I change it? And as for malfunction speed I dont think I will reach it unless Im swiping to do a 180. How does the sensor behave when it fails?


You have to use a custom USB driver [unsigned].

http://www.overclock.net/t/1181333/how-to-overclock-intellimouse-1-1a-to-500hz/0_20

When the sensor reaches ~1.5m/s it buffers the data. Instead of losing all tracking it slows down. It's like when you use a high CPI on a lower resolution without raw input on or what people call "negative acceleration."


----------



## qsxcv

i don't think it's limited by buffering at 1.55m/s
http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=5

or it would show a flat line for 1000hz


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> How do I change it? And as for malfunction speed I dont think I will reach it unless Im swiping to do a 180. How does the sensor behave when it fails?


you get negative mouse accel, it's the first I noticed when I bought a 3.0 many many years ago. I go to do a fast swipe, and I turn a 1/4 of what I'm expected to turn (turning in-game in an FPS game). Overclocking the mouse to 500hz fixes that issue and makes the mouse function at a much higher speed. Personally the mouse is unusable at 125hz.

The issue now is it's impossible to overclock the USB port on Win8 (iirc) and a lot of anti-cheat software for games won't work if you're in Test Mode (which is required for USB overclocking). For example the ESEA client restricted it. Other games like 7 Days To Die also restricted it (iirc)

follow this guide to overclock the USB port, follow it religiously too. ~ http://www.ngohq.com/news/15043-how-to-increase-usb-sample-rate-in-windows-vista-7-a.html If you reboot and the mouse doesn't work or the port is dead, you messed up. Just start over and try again. There has been issues with certain PC's at tournaments, the solution was to use dseo12 and not dseo13b, the B standing for BETA. This was really rare, but I'm mentioning it as a just-in-case.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I see. If it does becomw my daily driver I will keep my G303 as a backup mouse.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just watch out not to cut this contact. (not 100% sure what it is, most probably has to do with the LEDs, but still I'd leave it there...)
> 
> 
> 
> Useful: Pinout of wmo's button pcb


@popups you may find these somewhat aligned pcb images from my butchered g303 helpful
http://imgur.com/kmqwfMA,hX8HJLc


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i don't think it's limited by buffering at 1.55m/s
> http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=5
> 
> or it would show a flat line for 1000hz


I was talking about at 125Hz -- it's normal configuration.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> @popups you may find these somewhat aligned pcb images from my butchered g303 helpful
> http://imgur.com/kmqwfMA,hX8HJLc


Thanks for the picture.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I see. If it does becomw my daily driver I will keep my G303 as a backup mouse.


If the shape is what stops you from using the G303, maybe someone here [OC forum] would make a few Intellimouse shell + G303 PCB mice. I would be in for one.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> @popups you may find these somewhat aligned pcb images from my butchered g303 helpful
> http://imgur.com/kmqwfMA,hX8HJLc


Hmm the contact doesn't seem to go in the LED area anymore... definitely keep!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If the shape is what stops you from using the G303, maybe someone here [OC forum] would make a few Intellimouse shell + G303 PCB mice. I would be in for one.


Shape+weight. I can still use the G303 extremely well but iy just doesnt feel "perfect" Its quite heavy for a mouse of its size and as a fingertip grip user it is taxing on my hand when I play games that require quick constant movements (osu).


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Hmm the contact doesn't seem to go in the LED area anymore... definitely keep!


hm i followed a few vias and it seems to be connected to the 3.3v from the voltage regulator (top right of sensor cutout)
you definitely dont want to break the trace under where it says SW6

for the right button side, i would just make a cut through the screwhole
for the left side it depends on what circuitry is on the ime/whatever mouse's button pcb


----------



## wmoftw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> If the shape is what stops you from using the G303, maybe someone here [OC forum] would make a few Intellimouse shell + G303 PCB mice. I would be in for one.


that same person could do some WMO-adders, and I'd pay him for it (I'd mail both mice myself)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I don't know why I try these things. Using a 302 as the sacrificial lamb before I do it with a 303(if I make it that far). Such a long way to go...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I don't know why I try these things. Using a 302 as the sacrificial lamb before I do it with a 303(if I make it that far). Such a long way to go...


G302 and G303 PCB are completely different. Source: I have both and I have opened up both to swap out the horrendous stock cables.

I wish I could have G303's buttons and sensor in G100's shape and weight. Then it will be the perfect mouse for me.


----------



## qsxcv

completely different?
except for the lens/sensor/am010's led, the relevant physical components for what he's doing are more or less identical...
same shape, screw holes, switches, cable location

biggest problem would be the lens


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUMME*
> 
> temporarily KPM and right side is a bit uncomfortable for me. My favorite shape is Microsoft 3.0 but its close to imposible to get it now for me...


Have you considered the FinalMouse? The summer edition build quality isn't great but the sensor seems to have the same fidelity of the 3.0 but with much higher malfunction speed. The shape is somewhat similar too.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G302 and G303 PCB are completely different. Source: I have both and I have opened up both to swap out the horrendous stock cables.


Oh, I know they are different. Doesn't matter in this case though.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> completely different?
> except for the lens/sensor/am010's led, the relevant physical components for what he's doing are more or less identical...
> same shape, screw holes, switches, cable location
> 
> biggest problem would be the lens


Yeah, there are bunch of hurdles to overcome. With the lens issue, I'm gonna go thunderbringers route and cut out the bottom of the krait and use parts of the g302 shell to get what I want out of it.

By all means if this is not likely to work or impossible I'd like to know. I don't mind going back to the drawing board since I started this today.


----------



## TUMME

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Have you considered the FinalMouse? The summer edition build quality isn't great but the sensor seems to have the same fidelity of the 3.0 but with much higher malfunction speed. The shape is somewhat similar too.


Didnt try it. It looks similar with mx510 or razer imperator for me. There is sharp thing on the right side, and I cant feel comfortable with my type of grip(cant put my ring finger on top of that sharp thing and it is "pierce" my phalanx)


your cspromod picture <3


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUMME*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt try it. It looks similar with mx510 or razer imperator for me. There is sharp thing on the right side, and I cant feel comfortable with my type of grip(cant put my ring finger on top of that sharp thing and it is "pierce" my phalanx)
> 
> 
> your cspromod picture <3


I don't think you can be sure about that without trying it. I use both tight and loose grip there with my ring finger and have no problems. It's quite nice for loose grip actually because it's not exaggerated too much, just enough to where it gives you better grip when lifting the mouse.


----------



## TUMME

There's truth in your words but... I tried mx518, imperator and I couldn't adapt to them... Anyway I just ordered g303 and will try it today.


----------



## Melan

I went ahead and switched to my decade old MX500. No overclock, mouse works as good as my G303 minus 1.2 m/s speed cap where it just doesn't accelerate anymore. Didn't malfunction at 65cm/360 in 6 hours lol.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I just got my WMO in the mail an hour ago. After figuring out how to OC it to 1000hz the mouse became the rawest mouse I have ever used. It feels like the sensor itself is part of my hand (The WMO's shape is a little too big for fingertip grip for me). With the G303 it feels like I have to pass a threshold of movement before the cursor on the screen moves.

Has anyone done WMO internals in a G100S (or insert any small home/office mouse here) shell before?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I just got my WMO in the mail an hour ago. After figuring out how to OC it to 1000hz the mouse became the rawest mouse I have ever used. It feels like the sensor itself is part of my hand (The WMO's shape is a little too big for fingertip grip for me). With the G303 it feels like I have to pass a threshold of movement before the cursor on the screen moves.


I think that might be because of how the frame rate behaves and the DSP + Array combo.

My Intellimouse has 3 states: during normal movement, at rest, in the air. Only during very small/slow movement it stays in the rest mode. I'm not sure if all Microsoft MLT mice are like that.

You can read the posts from qsxcv.


----------



## TUMME

btw how many fps 3366 has?


----------



## qsxcv

between 1000 and 12000, depending on how fast you move the mouse

not really an upgrade in that regard compared to 9800 and 3988


----------



## TUMME

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> between 1000 and 12000, depending on how fast you move the mouse
> 
> not really an upgrade in that regard compared to 9800 and 3988


so 3988/3989 has the same or stable 12k?







sorry for noob Q


----------



## qsxcv

depends on what the sensor is told to do. i've never tried razer's mice but on the evga torq x5 (3988) the framerate is variable as well

i don't think it's something to be concerned about unless you're interested in it as a technical detail


----------



## TUMME

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> depends on what the sensor is told to do. i've never tried razer's mice but on the evga torq x5 (3988) the framerate is variable as well
> 
> i don't think it's something to be concerned about unless you're interested in it as a technical detail


thx


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I just got my WMO in the mail an hour ago. After figuring out how to OC it to 1000hz the mouse became the rawest mouse I have ever used. It feels like the sensor itself is part of my hand (The WMO's shape is a little too big for fingertip grip for me). With the G303 it feels like I have to pass a threshold of movement before the cursor on the screen moves.
> 
> Has anyone done WMO internals in a G100S (or insert any small home/office mouse here) shell before?


This is because you're using the G303 at much much lower than max DPI.
Youre comparing apples and oranges.

Do you still have your g303?
if so, set the sensor to the max DPI--12000
Notice it then registers movement even faster than the MLT04 you have. In fact the mouse cursor will react to you lightly -tapping- the mousepad next to it. Then set it to 400 DPI and compare the difference.

Then set it back to 12000.

After about 10 seconds of being idle (you have to make SURE it's idle at 12000 DPI as it catches the tiniest movement), it will become 'less' sensitive until movement is registered (it will require a certain amount of tiny physical movement before it registers anything) then it becomes super ultra sensitive again.

At 1800 DPI, the amount of movement required is the same whether the mouse is at rest or in 'active' state. So this 'state' doesn't apply to 1800 dpi (I've tested it, but it might still apply to a much lesser extent, so if it does it's definitely not noticeable. I could not notice it when testing it on a Puretrak Talent. But I think I might have noticed it very slightly at 1800 dpi on a super fast pad like the Razer Exactmat Speed. But at 12000 dpi, it's night and day (after waiting for 10 seconds, the sensor clearly goes to a low state, that is blatantly obvious, unlike at 1800 dpi where it feels almost the same).

The diamondback 3G requires a certain amount of movement to register 1800 dpi also, similar to the 3366 but the Black Edition (3.5G) registers tiny movement MUCH faster than the 3G and the 3366.


----------



## dwnfall

So are you saying use DPI higher than 1800 with the 303?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> So are you saying use DPI higher than 1800 with the 303?


Does the sensor have jitter at dpi>2000? Or does that only apply for the G502?


----------



## Falkentyne

No, not at all.


----------



## dwnfall

I got my G303 today and I must say I enjoy the cursor control. At 1800 DPI it feels much better so far than my Corsair M45. The shape is a little odd but I think I can manage as I don't palm anyways. The four feet they include make it slide around my pad like butter.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Does anyone have a G303 weight reduction/shell stripping guide?


----------



## TUMME

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> I got my G303 today and I must say I enjoy the cursor control. At 1800 DPI it feels much better so far than my Corsair M45. The shape is a little odd but I think I can manage as I don't palm anyways. The four feet they include make it slide around my pad like butter.


Got it too, shape is not annoying, but I had to change my grip from claw+palm to finger+palm(or full palm, hard to say). Cursor control is pretty good for aiming but I cant flick shot atm, but I hope It is all about new grip and I can adapt because my playstyle is all about flick shots. And one thing that I noticed - cursor movement is pretty smooth even with 125 hz polling rate, dont know why it is, but when I switched polling rate first time I thought it doesnot work







but It works and its smooth.


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Are we ever going to get a firmware/software update to fix surface tuning and LOD?


Can someone explain to me what was the problem with surface tuning? i read quite some pages but not the whole thread. ( a link to a post would do as well)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> Can someone explain to me what was the problem with surface tuning? i read quite some pages but not the whole thread. ( a link to a post would do as well)


It lowers the LOD but also greatly reduces the malfunction speed.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> Can someone explain to me what was the problem with surface tuning? i read quite some pages but not the whole thread. ( a link to a post would do as well)


People report that the mouse occasionally freaks out when using surface tuning. It makes you stare at the floor or the ceiling in FPS games for example.

The surface tuning's job is to tweak settings for the sensor to lower the lift-off-distance of the mouse as much as possible for your particular mouse pad. It perhaps does that too aggressively.


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> People report that the mouse occasionally freaks out when using surface tuning. It makes you stare at the floor or the ceiling in FPS games for example.
> 
> The surface tuning's job is to tweak settings for the sensor to lower the lift-off-distance of the mouse as much as possible for your particular mouse pad. It perhaps does that too aggressively.


Thanks. I thought it was the problem with never having exact cpi as before after reboot, or something like that. so im good to go with mid-high sens?


----------



## Conceptx

Hey guys, i just received my g303 and i have a question. When I shake the mouse quickly, something is wobbling inside, with a noise like something is broken or not fixed there. Is it the same for you guys?

The g502 has a similar noise, but i know that its the scroll wheel there because when i hold it it doesnt do that, but its not the scroll wheel at the g303, but something in it. Any idea? Maybe the new gyroscope? Because i dont like it...


----------



## sammkv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Hey guys, i just received my g303 and i have a question. When I shake the mouse quickly, something is wobbling inside, with a noise like something is broken or not fixed there. Is it the same for you guys?
> 
> The g502 has a similar noise, but i know that its the scroll wheel there because when i hold it it doesnt do that, but its not the scroll wheel at the g303, but something in it. Any idea? Maybe the new gyroscope? Because i dont like it...


Yeah, I've returned and exchanged 3 Logitech 303's and they all rattle. Getting a zowie. I can deal with a crappy scroll wheel but anything rattling is really annoying.


----------



## Conceptx

Hmm not good then








Also I have some kind of sensor problem too with the g303, please check this, I made a video that i would like to get your feedback on.


----------



## Melan

Looks more like user error.


----------



## Conceptx

Then why its not happening with the g502 doesnt matter how hard i try?


----------



## Melan

Heavier mouse, different grip etc. Not to mention, I get the same if I put more effort than required into stopping my G303, which results in me moving my mouse a few millimeters into other direction.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Then why its not happening with the g502 doesnt matter how hard i try?


Some ideas:

The way you grip and move the two mice might be totally different, fingers being involved more on the G303 vs. just the wrist and arm doing it on the G502? There's the extra weight on the G502 perhaps smoothing out that jittering in your hand/fingers when you try to stop the movement. The feet might be polished more on the older mouse compared to a new mouse, and that might do something?


----------



## Conceptx

Both are new, I tried to grip both hardly and softly, palm or finger, doesnt matter really. Believe me I tried an hour literally to find out if its my hand or the mouse. Also the G502 is not that much heavier. I noticed this jiggle when I changed tabs in chrome and moved the mouse over a tab to switch.
So the fact is its happening even if I move it at nomral speed ( for example web browsing).

This is why Im asking, if someone could try the same test it would be helpful.

I have a g402 and a g500 too, will test them tomorrow.


----------



## jaffa2843

Clearly human error. You are trying too hard to stop the mouse (aka moving into the other direction) and obviously the heavier one won't move backwards, coz you know, it's heavier.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Then why its not happening with the g502 doesnt matter how hard i try?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Clearly human error. You are trying too hard to stop the mouse (aka moving into the other direction) and obviously the heavier one won't move backwards, coz you know, it's heavier.


Coefficient of friction and weight.


----------



## Omega215d

Coming from the Roccat Savu and G502 I actually find the G303 quite nice to hold even for long durations. The only issue I have come across is the forward thumb button is a bit far from what I'm used to.


----------



## detto87

Rattle on G303? That's a new one.
Bought 2 G303s. Both perfectly fine and of course no rattle.


----------



## povohat

Mine rattles even when securing the obvious external moving parts (buttons/wheel). I don't actually care though because it doesn't appear to impact the performance of the mouse at all, and is inaudible in normal mousing circumstances.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

I read somewhere that the rattling is because of the switches in the mouse and also the scroll wheel, it's really common and not a problem unless you get really annoyed by it.


----------



## Conceptx

Okay I will test it further, I will even put on some weight with tape or something to test it.

I will also make a video of the rattling, its not the buttons, its something in the inside, because when i hold all the buttons and scroll wheel it still rattles when shaking the mouse.


----------



## qsxcv

given how many pieces are in the top part of the shell, i wouldnt be surprised if something's loose


----------



## Conceptx

Okay, here is the video of the rattling, please let me know if yours is doing the same or its fautly?


----------



## Brightmist

Faulty.


----------



## Conceptx

Is it possible that this and the sensor problem is related to each other?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Is it possible that this and the sensor problem is related to each other?


Do you mean those lines you tried to draw in sections? I'm guessing there isn't a problem and that the mouse actually draws exactly what the hand does. When I try to draw similar lines on paper with a pencil, and try to do the sections fast, I am drawing the same tiny, jittery steps backwards when stopping my hand. I have to concentrate to not do that. And then when I do the same with a G302, it all behaves the same (I don't have a G303, only G302).


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Do you mean those lines you tried to draw in sections? I'm guessing there isn't a problem and that the mouse actually draws exactly what the hand does. When I try to draw similar lines on paper with a pencil, and try to do the sections fast, I am drawing the same tiny, jittery steps backwards when stopping my hand. I have to concentrate to not do that. And then when I do the same with a G302, it all behaves the same (I don't have a G303, only G302).


Yes, anyway I will send it back and replace it with another, and will see if its the same. Thank you all for the answers!


----------



## Atavax

Rattling does seem like a common problem with the g303. I think cpate said the issue was fixed, but who knows how many of the older batches with the problem are still at retailers. 2 of 3 of my g303s rattle.1 rattles much louder than the other as well.


----------



## Melan

Neither of my 2 303 rattle. This could be white plastic thing under G logo that got detached.


----------



## milkbreak

Is there an optimal CPI/DPI step multiplier or threshold for hardware smoothing or anything like that on this mouse?


----------



## Melan

No.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milkbreak*
> 
> Is there an optimal CPI/DPI step multiplier or threshold for hardware smoothing or anything like that on this mouse?


There is no smoothing for the 3366 sensor.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There is no smoothing for the 3366 sensor.


Depends how smoothing is defined IIRC.


----------



## Conceptx

Okay guys, further testing, this time no hands/fingers involved so cant be human error, and I have to say the same thing is happening.

I taped down the left mouse click so I can flick the mouse and see what it is drawing in PS. So the mouse stops itself because of the coefficient of friction.

But the same weird hook shape is happening at every stop. Like the sensor wobbles inside? Or the rattling thing that is moving inside makes the wobble after the stop.


----------



## detto87

Have to report back to you again Conceptx.
At least my main G303 that I currently use also has a slight rattle when I shake it hard.
I didn't notice it at first, but after taking a look at your video I began to shake it harder and listened carefully.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest though,
And: no tracking problems.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Neither of my 2 303 rattle. This could be white plastic thing under G logo that got detached.


Could also be the side button PCB


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Okay guys, further testing, this time no hands/fingers involved so cant be human error, and I have to say the same thing is happening.
> 
> I taped down the left mouse click so I can flick the mouse and see what it is drawing in PS. So the mouse stops itself because of the coefficient of friction.
> 
> But the same weird hook shape is happening at every stop. Like the sensor wobbles inside? Or the rattling thing that is moving inside makes the wobble after the stop.


Reset the mouse to defaults within the drivers and don't use surface tuning. Then turn off the LEDs. Does it still happen after that?


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Reset the mouse to defaults withing the drivers and don't use surface tuning. Then turn off the LEDs. Does it still happen after that?


Did as you said but its the same


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Did as you said but its the same


RMA it.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Good catch, I just tried the same and didn't have the bumps. I did have them when trying to do it by hand lol.


----------



## Conceptx

OK thanks guys for the help, will RMA it. It's a great mice though!


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Depends how smoothing is defined IIRC.


Smoothing is defined as anti jitter correction, based on post processing a certain amount of frames. Unless you want to go and label personal perception of one user calling smoothing anything that for him in particular doesn't reassemble an mlt04.
The word already has a use and even if it's not the most correct definition it gives the idea, recalling in game mouse smoothing as the concept of filtering a certain amount of frames trading latency for a more linear output. I find no good reason to complicate things more.


----------



## acid_reptile

Why does the lense not fit the sensor hole exactly? Mine looks more to the right.

Looks pretty much the same as on this 3D picture http://gaming.logitech.com/de-de/product/gaming-mouse-g303


----------



## Conceptx

Okay guys, I had a weird idea, I don't know why just now, but I flipped the mouse upside down, grabbed a thin screwdriver and checked the transparent part that is under the sensor and is reachable from the bottom without taking the mouse apart. It turned out that it is wobbling. So easy and simple to check that I never thought of that lol. It's so tiny movement like less than a milimeter but I knew something is weird.

Now I dont know if that transparent plastic part is attached to the sensor and they are moving together or the wobbling of the plastic part causes the sensor making mistakes.

Edit:
here is the video


----------



## Melan

Normally lens is attached to the PCB. At least mine is.


----------



## thatgold

How's this mouse for people with big hands?

I got 21.5 x 11cm hands, and I typically use a claw/fingertip grip with my mice.

my previous mice were:

G5 / 400 - Good size
Deathadder - Good size
G502 - Gave me hand cramps
Finalmouse SE (faulty) - Good size

Anyone here with hands the size of mine (or larger) who can tell me how they find this mouse? I really miss the build quality of logitech, and the G502 just had too weird of a shape.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thatgold*
> 
> How's this mouse for people with big hands?
> 
> I got 21.5 x 11cm hands, and I typically use a claw/fingertip grip with my mice.
> 
> my previous mice were:
> 
> G5 / 400 - Good size
> Deathadder - Good size
> G502 - Gave me hand cramps
> Finalmouse SE (faulty) - Good size
> 
> Anyone here with hands the size of mine (or larger) who can tell me how they find this mouse? I really miss the build quality of logitech, and the G502 just had too weird of a shape.


It's fine if you use finger tip grip plus are okay with ambi type mice.


----------



## ClickTap

What's with the price drop (49.99) for almost a month now?


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Okay guys, I had a weird idea, I don't know why just now, but I flipped the mouse upside down, grabbed a thin screwdriver and checked the transparent part that is under the sensor and is reachable from the bottom without taking the mouse apart. It turned out that it is wobbling. So easy and simple to check that I never thought of that lol. It's so tiny movement like less than a milimeter but I knew something is weird.
> 
> Now I dont know if that transparent plastic part is attached to the sensor and they are moving together or the wobbling of the plastic part causes the sensor making mistakes.
> 
> Edit:
> here is the video


It really shouldn't do that. The thing your calling "transparent part" is the lense, and even if it wasn't fixed to the sensor, it should be pressed to the lense spot of the bottom shell as with older sensor/lense designs.

I really thought logitech sorted their QC issues out (seeing as the latest batch of the g100s came with a correctly aligned sensor ship, but only tried one of those)

Is your lense centered at least?


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> It really shouldn't do that. The thing your calling "transparent part" is the lense, and even if it wasn't fixed to the sensor, it should be pressed to the lense spot of the bottom shell as with older sensor/lense designs.
> 
> I really thought logitech sorted their QC issues out (seeing as the latest batch of the g100s came with a correctly aligned sensor ship, but only tried one of those)
> 
> Is your lense centered at least?


Yes it looks like it is centered. Anyway I'm glad i figured it out and kept the testing on after i was told its human error. The thing that kept me going is that the g502 doesnt draw any hook, not even small ones and its not that much heavier...


----------



## j0hn

I just bought the 303 and this is the first mouse I've had spazz out when turning in cs


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j0hn*
> 
> I just bought the 303 and this is the first mouse I've had spazz out when turning in cs


Disable surface tuning and this shouldn't happen.


----------



## kv2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thatgold*
> 
> How's this mouse for people with big hands?
> 
> I got 21.5 x 11cm hands, and I typically use a claw/fingertip grip with my mice.
> 
> my previous mice were:
> 
> G5 / 400 - Good size
> Deathadder - Good size
> G502 - Gave me hand cramps
> Finalmouse SE (faulty) - Good size
> 
> Anyone here with hands the size of mine (or larger) who can tell me how they find this mouse? I really miss the build quality of logitech, and the G502 just had too weird of a shape.


my hand is 20.5, Well for me i can use 303 without any problem. Though it might be not so comfort as ergo mice for long time play.


----------



## j0hn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Disable surface tuning and this shouldn't happen.


yeah, I guess I'll have to, but I was so used to the low lod of the fk1 on plastic mode








that the original on this felt so high.
On another note I'm surprised of how big it feels relative to it's length, I guess the rounded butt helps.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j0hn*
> 
> yeah, I guess I'll have to, but I was so used to the low lod of the fk1 on plastic mode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that the original on this felt so high.
> On another note I'm surprised of how big it feels relative to it's length, I guess the rounded butt helps.


On default it should be very similar to the FK, in fact I'm sure pretty it's lower than Zowie @default. Never measured it though.


----------



## MkII

I wonder if I could fit the G303 pcb in a G9x shell...

Did someone tried this already?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MkII*
> 
> I wonder if I could fit the G303 pcb in a G9x shell...
> 
> Did someone tried this already?


Everything is possible. There was someone that managed to put the insides of a G502 into a WMO, so something more extreme than what you are asking about. You are the only one that can answer if you personally can do something like this or not.


----------



## Conceptx

Okay, update on the rattling issue, I went back to the store, they exchanged it to a brand new G303, got home, unboxed it and guess what, its rattling too... Logitech what are you doing? Also the feet was half way down/curled and its really wavy like it was made in a hurry. I'm not happy, loosing faith in Logitech...
Although its not as much as previous, but its still bothers me... I also tested it in PS and the hook is gone finally, or at least so small its not visible.

What should I do now? Bring this back again hoping that it will not exist if im lucky enough? Or call Logitech directly to send me a good one?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Okay, update on the rattling issue, I went back to the store, they exchanged it to a brand new G303, got home, unboxed it and guess what, its rattling too... Logitech what are you doing? Also the feet was half way down/curled and its really wavy like it was made in a hurry. I'm not happy, loosing faith in Logitech...
> Although its not as much as previous, but its still bothers me... I also tested it in PS and the hook is gone finally, or at least so small its not visible.
> 
> What should I do now? Bring this back again hoping that it will not exist if im lucky enough? Or call Logitech directly to send me a good one?


The tracking issue you had with your first G303 was not normal because the lens is supposed to be attached to the sensor (from what I read).

A lot of mice rattle. It's only an issue depending on what is moving inside.

Maybe it's easier going back to the store for a replacement, but before you leave open the box to check the mouse.

The G303 goes down in price and down in quality control?


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The tracking issue you had with your first G303 was not normal because the lens is supposed to be attached to the sensor (from what I read).
> 
> A lot of mice rattle. It's only an issue depending on what is moving inside.
> 
> Maybe it's easier going back to the store for a replacement, but before you leave open the box to check the mouse.
> 
> The G303 goes down in price and down in quality control?


It's the lens that is rattling again, but to a lesser extent.


----------



## zeflow

My lens rattles as well







at first I thought it was the scroll, but it is the lens...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> It's the lens that is rattling again, but to a lesser extent.


I no longer own a G303, so I cannot compare it to yours. I didn't check for any lens rattle and I didn't notice strange tracking behavior. Maybe the later batch of G303 mice have a QC issue with their sensors.


----------



## Omega215d

I'm shaking my G303 moderately and hear no rattle. How vigorously is it being shaken? I'm currently evaluating mine on various mouse pads (SS 5L, Razer Goliathus, Corsair MM200) to see if there's any tracking issues but so far so good.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> I'm shaking my G303 moderately and hear no rattle. How vigorously is it being shaken? I'm currently evaluating mine on various mouse pads (SS 5L, Razer Goliathus, Corsair MM200) to see if there's any tracking issues but so far so good.


Conceptx made a video that you can find in this thread a few posts back. He showed that he could push the lens around (I mean with a toothpick for example).

See here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/3270#post_24069557


----------



## Omega215d

Okay, I did the same and it doesn't move the lens. I purchased mine at Best Buy last week (1507LZ*****)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I've probably asked this before but does anyone have any way to make the sensor have a high LOD?
I remember Ino said something about tuning to a piece of paper but I had no higher LOD than default.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Is the G303 discontinued? I didn't see it in the mice section of the logitech gaming website, but I saw the G302. I also saw that the G303 is only $50 on Amazon possibly for clearance?


----------



## Melan

I see both 302 and 303 on their site. US one that is.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Is the G303 discontinued? I didn't see it in the mice section of the logitech gaming website, but I saw the G302. I also saw that the G303 is only $50 on Amazon possibly for clearance?


It's right here: http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303

It's been $50 at Amazon for a few weeks now. The G502 also just had a deal at best buy for $80 but came with $40 of steam wallet cash. Sales can happen without discontinuing the product.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I see both 302 and 303 on their site. US one that is.


Yeah, I just saw it. I got excited for a second thinking they were going to make a new 3366 mouse with a better shape.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I see both 302 and 303 on their site. US one that is.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I just saw it. I got excited for a second thinking they were going to make a new 3366 mouse with a better shape.
Click to expand...

Don't worry you are NOT alone in hoping for a better product line from those clowns.

Hope they'll decide to go back and resurrect the old ones like the G400 and mx300 series with 3310 and 3366 sensors. Amazing paying idiots lots of money to design new Star Wars shapes that no one wants, yet their previous models sold heaps over the years and they still ignore them.

Time to man up and admit their failure and start again from scratch and start re-introducing their past shapes like the mx300, G9 and their most famous one the G400 series. If they did that I shall be their BIGGEST shill here on OCN, pushing their products till the day I die.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Don't worry you are NOT alone in hoping for a better product line from those clowns.
> 
> Hope they'll decide to go back and resurrect the old ones like the G400 and mx300 series with 3310 and 3366 sensors. Amazing paying idiots lots of money to design new Star Wars *shapes that no one wants*, yet their previous models sold heaps over the years and they still ignore them.
> 
> Time to man up and admit their failure and start again from scratch and start re-introducing their past shapes like the mx300, G9 and their most famous one the G400 series. If they did that I shall be their BIGGEST shill here on OCN, pushing their products till the day I die.


I currently use the G302 and its weird shape seems to be the best for my hand. I don't remember a shape that worked better for me. I bought my first mouse for PC around 1990, so I tried around 25 years worth of different mice.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I currently use the G302 and its weird shape seems to be the best for my hand. I don't remember a shape that worked better for me. I bought my first mouse for PC around 1990, so I tried around 25 years worth of different mice.


As I enjoy the shape of the G402 despite the changes from it's predecessor.







The spaceship mice seem to be selling well on Amazon too.

Elrick is on a continent separated from the rest of humanity for a reason.


----------



## jjpjimmy

Just got my g303 today. This is my second ambidextrous mouse my first a long time ago with the WMO and I've had many ergonomic mouses since then. Purchased it because of the lower weight, logitech click latency, and the well rated sensor.

I like the shape actually (and I've voted yes). It fits my hand well. The mouse fits more closely to my natural hand resting. The other mouses often fall flat or outward but the narrowing feels better to me. Although I tend to balance my hand more towards the back right so it lifts off sometimes when swiping right. Also with the narrow sides and / \ angle of the mouse I can't go from finger tip to claw grip to bring my mouse down as I usually do since by doing so I climb my way off the mouse..

The weight is a huge benefit especially coming 'down' from a g502. In csgo I got from unranked to DMG using the g502 and since switching out for my weight modded deathadder:black edition I've ranked up to LE. I know the mouse probably didn't have much to do with my cs:go ranking but I distinctly remember the arguments in the g502 thread about a couple grams shouldn't matter so much. And I thought so as well but it does!

Lights are always meh, thank god you can turn those off.

Braided cables are always a turn off but for warranty sake I haven't stripped it yet... It will eventually fray from catching onto my Artisan Hien and then get caught a whole bunch fraying even more...and caught more...fray more.. sigh.. Would de-braid right now if logitech gave the okay.

Struggling to figure out what to do with the DPI cycle button.. I had it on MSI afterburner record but I accidentally hit it somehow so I unbound it.

As for the rattling issue, try shaking it with the cable as well. So the mouse moves in unison with its cable.. Seems to only rattle when I let the cable dangle.

So initial impressions are largely positive!


----------



## acid_reptile

I have the same problem as many others in this thread. At first i thought its really not that bad and i could get used to it, but then i gets worse the more i try to play.

Back to the aby 2k14 for now. I'm really done with logitech. Only one question left, after the disappointment with the g100s: Why i even tried?


----------



## Conceptx

I always loved the shape of mx500/mx510 and I have to say the g303 is good for me also. I can really grab the mouse, make little adjustments with fingers even though im more of a palmgrip guy. I find the < shape on the left side really handy at those small adjustments because i can move the mouse easily forward and backward with my thumb. Also the button feeling is improved and I like the scroll wheel frimness and easy clicking too.

I only wish if it had scroll wheel tilt as I am using it for changing tabs when browsing. And the side buttons are a bit too high for me, I like more the G502 side buttons as there I don't have to move my thumb to be able to press them.


----------



## obi.van.kenobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> I have the same problem as many others in this thread. At first i thought its really not that bad and i could get used to it, but then i gets worse the more i try to play.
> 
> Back to the aby 2k14 for now. I'm really done with logitech. Only one question left, after the disappointment with the g100s: Why i even tried?


Why the disappointment with g100s? I think it works ok @400dpi. Yes they should have copied the g1 shape 1:1, the buttons could be better, and the plastic is not to be compared to the mentioned g1, but the rest isn't so bad.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *obi.van.kenobi*
> 
> Why the disappointment with g100s? I think it works ok @400dpi. Yes they should have copied the g1 shape 1:1, the buttons could be better, and the plastic is not to be compared to the mentioned g1, but the rest isn't so bad.


Low PCS and awkward native dpi steps


----------



## obi.van.kenobi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Low PCS and awkward native dpi steps


I managed to solve low PCS with upping my sensitivity to 5 @400dpi. Works great


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *obi.van.kenobi*
> 
> I managed to solve low PCS with upping my sensitivity to 5 @400dpi. Works great


Pretty sure 5 gives pixel skipping


----------



## aayman_farzand

That is a lot of speculation to state as facts. All Logitech mice have received significant price cuts few months after it's release, look at price trackers and see for yourself.


----------



## acid_reptile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *obi.van.kenobi*
> 
> Why the disappointment with g100s? I think it works ok @400dpi. Yes they should have copied the g1 shape 1:1, the buttons could be better, and the plastic is not to be compared to the mentioned g1, but the rest isn't so bad.


You pretty much answered your own question. And "not so bad" just isn't enough, more than a decade after the mx300 was released.

I once tried the mx300 shape with a 3090 sensor (aurora internals) with a tiny bit of anglesnapping (povohat driver) This was just the best thing ever - Aimbot.


----------



## Melan

After changing mouse pad, 1khz became uncontrollable on 303. On slower zero it was more tame, on corepad it's all over the place. 500hz feels right though. Weird.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acid_reptile*
> 
> You pretty much answered your own question. And "not so bad" just isn't enough, more than a decade after the mx300 was released.
> 
> I once tried the mx300 shape with a 3090 sensor (aurora internals) with a tiny bit of anglesnapping (povohat driver) This was just the best thing ever - Aimbot.


It's funny how a MX500/300 at 1000Hz only had 1 flaw tbh: Angle Snapping.

10 years or more later... makes you somewhat cringe at what the "mouse industry" has become.

I currently keep going back to my FK2, every time. It's not the best at anything, but it's the best compromise at the end of the day: Decent shape, decent enough sensor, ...


----------



## Cloudy

Anyone know of some "rougher" feet for this mouse? I've got a mousepad that I'd prefer to use, but it has a little bit too much glide for my tastes.


----------



## XimJrz

I love this mouse i own the g502 and some other top of the line mouse. It took me a while to get use to but im in love with it now. Feels real nice with artisan hayate


----------



## bond10

Does anyone have one of those real DPI vs claimed DPI charts? I'd like to know if 400 dpi on this mouse really measures 400 dpi.


----------



## qsxcv

see ino's g502 review
of course theres measurement error and tolerances for the mice itself


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Does anyone have one of those real DPI vs claimed DPI charts? I'd like to know if 400 dpi on this mouse really measures 400 dpi.





http://imgur.com/w2hHm


It's in that album. From memory real CPI on my unit was 397 CPI at 400 step.


----------



## altf4

I ordered my g303 yesterday, i'm worried about the rattle problem abit but let's hope for the best


----------



## MasterBash

I got mine like 2 days ago and the DPI button is making a weird spring noise when clicked. Anyone else?


----------



## qsxcv

dpi button was a bit loose on mine (before i destroyed the whole thing) and also the sample i tried at best buy. i don't recall any spring noise though


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I got mine like 2 days ago and the DPI button is making a weird spring noise when clicked. Anyone else?


No spring noise here. It sounds the same as the side buttons (which I wish the forward button was a little closer). I bought mine from Best Buy and there was not rattling of any kind when I shook the mouse. One of the skates were indented near one of the screws but hasn't affected the glide (which does quite smoothly on my new Corsair MM200).

The scroll wheel is still not quite as good as that of my Roccat Savu.


----------



## altf4

My g303 arrived and indeed it's rattles, god dammit. Should i just ignore it?


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> My g303 arrived and indeed it's rattles, god dammit. Should i just ignore it?


If it isn't too bad I guess you could ignore it and Logitech seems to be good at replacing mice when they fail or are going bad. How long would it take to return it and get a new one (if that's what you want)? I'm also curious about the part numbers because the one I bought from Best Buy ($50) has no issues except for the fact that the firmware was outdated so I couldn't use the mouse right away.

I'd rather find a price online and take it to the store to see if they can price match. This way any issues that crop up within the return period I can just take it back.


----------



## Melan

From my experience, Logitech doesn't request old "defective" units to be sent back and just sends new one to you. Took them 3 days to get new 303 to me in EU.


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> If it isn't too bad I guess you could ignore it and Logitech seems to be good at replacing mice when they fail or are going bad. How long would it take to return it and get a new one (if that's what you want)? I'm also curious about the part numbers because the one I bought from Best Buy ($50) has no issues except for the fact that the firmware was outdated so I couldn't use the mouse right away.
> 
> I'd rather find a price online and take it to the store to see if they can price match. This way any issues that crop up within the return period I can just take it back.


I live in lithuanian and warranty here is pain in the ass trust me lol, i think i'm fine it's not even that loud impossible to hear while i'm wearing headphones, i think the plastic thingy near the sensor makes the sound i don't know how do you call it LOL. But anyway the sensor performance is amazing so far.


----------



## Omega215d

If it's near the sensor then maybe you should return it if dealing with warranty is a PIA, assuming that shipping won't take that long. Are you sure it's something near the sensor making the sound and not the scroll wheel?


----------



## altf4

I'm holding right here with my nail and shaking and i can't hear a thing lol tested it.












 and btw mine doesn't even do that at all.


----------



## popups

Out of the former and current GO Cloud9 players, only 1 uses the G303 currently. Right now it's (2) G402, (2) G100S, (1) G303. It was (3) G402, but Skadoodle switched to the G100S.


----------



## Omega215d

It would be interesting if they would update the G402 to the newer sensor making it a G403 of sorts and the price of the G303 can come down to the $40 range.


----------



## altf4

Damn i've been using ZOWIE FK1 for like 5-6 months the clicks was harder to press, with the g303 i'm miss clicking so hard mouse2 it's sooo light and the shape is not bad actually for me my hands medium size, using fingertip to grip it, need like 1 day to get used to it and i will go beast mode.


----------



## kaptchka

If someone put the 303 clicks and internals into an FK1 shell I would throw money at them.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Out of the former and current GO Cloud9 players, only 1 uses the G303 currently. Right now it's (2) G402, (2) G100S, (1) G303. It was (3) G402, but Skadoodle switched to the G100S.


how about tsm? all i know is device uses g502


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> how about tsm? all i know is device uses g502


TSM uses (2) G402 and (3) G303.

Cloud9 uses (2) G402, (2) G100S and (1) G303.

It's "funny" how four out of ten pro FPS players choose to use the G303 and ~39% of OC users like the shape of the G302/3.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1547835/do-you-like-logitech-g303s-shape/0_20


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> It's "funny" how four out of ten pro FPS players choose to use the G303 and ~39% of OC users like the shape of the G302/3.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1547835/do-you-like-logitech-g303s-shape/0_20


heh, indeed!









Logitech should release a g103 already and call it a day before others start using the 3366. Then Logitech has lost.


----------



## qsxcv

http://gaming.logitech.com/ru-ru/product/g103-gaming-keyboard


----------



## altf4

I played today alot cs go with this mouse (since i got) and i think it's fine i mean zowie fk1 shape is still gonna be the best no doubt about it, but i'm digging the g303 shape couple of days and i will get used to it, btw do you guys use the surface tuning thing? i have qck+ heavy


----------



## Melan

No. Surface calibration is buggy, so don't use it.


----------



## qsxcv

i think people have reported the spin-to-sky/floor bug even without touching surface calibration right? probably that'd mean that 3366 itself has some issue with that and surface calibration (since afaik it only changes lod parameters) aggravates it


----------



## Z Overlord

my G303's cord loves getting caught in the end of my PureTrak Talent, why would anyone want a braided cord?


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> my G303's cord loves getting caught in the end of my PureTrak Talent, why would anyone want a braided cord?


mouse bungee :}


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think people have reported the spin-to-sky/floor bug even without touching surface calibration right? probably that'd mean that 3366 itself has some issue with that and surface calibration (since afaik it only changes lod parameters) aggravates it


I think after the firmware update it only happens with Surface Calibration enabled.

I'm surprised it's taking them so long to fix...it's been an issue since the 3366 was introduced with the g502 :/

On the other hand...I did get 3 free g502's RMAing them based on the bug they insisted was a unit defect. Pretty happy about that


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think people have reported the spin-to-sky/floor bug even without touching surface calibration right? probably that'd mean that 3366 itself has some issue with that and surface calibration (since afaik it only changes lod parameters) aggravates it


Well, I never had anything like that on either first or second 303, with and without calibration on either artisan zero or corepad 4XL. It really looks like a filthy mousepad problem, because I wipe mine pretty much daily.


----------



## qsxcv

well from what i saw in the spi communication with the sensor, surface tuning just adjusts the value of two registers, which have default settings.
it's not like it's enabling a new mode or switching on some functionality... so if it happens with non-default surface calibration settings, it could probably also happen with the default settings
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I think after the firmware update it only happens with Surface Calibration enabled.
> 
> I'm surprised it's taking them so long to fix...it's been an issue since the 3366 was introduced with the g502 :/
> 
> On the other hand...I did get 3 free g502's RMAing them based on the bug they insisted was a unit defect. Pretty happy about that


lol did they even ask you to send them back in?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> my G303's cord loves getting caught in the end of my PureTrak Talent, why would anyone want a braided cord?


A lot of people think it makes the cable "higher quality."


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well from what i saw in the spi communication with the sensor, surface tuning just adjusts the value of two registers, which have default settings.
> it's not like it's enabling a new mode or switching on some functionality... so if it happens with non-default surface calibration settings, it could probably also happen with the default settings
> lol did they even ask you to send them back in?


nope!!


----------



## qsxcv

ironic since i think ocn has the biggest (?) cable sleeving community








http://www.overclock.net/f/17973/cables-and-sleeving

but yea sleeving does nothing functional except maybe help durability...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ironic since i think ocn has the biggest (?) cable sleeving community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/f/17973/cables-and-sleeving


Isn't that just for aesthetics though? Like people buying certain products because it matches with their PC.

I don't care for useless things like braided cables.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, I never had anything like that on either first or second 303, with and without calibration on either artisan zero or corepad 4XL. It really looks like a filthy mousepad problem, because I wipe mine pretty much daily.


I've used it on ~10 mint pads of every sort (I'm a junkie, I know) with 6 mice (4 g502's 2 g303's), on two machines.

Either you're not moving your mouse fast enough to trigger it, or one of us is very un/lucky.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ironic since i think ocn has the biggest (?) cable sleeving community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/f/17973/cables-and-sleeving
> 
> but yea sleeving does nothing functional except maybe help durability...


Braided cables can slide on the pad more easily than unbraided, in some cases, no?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ironic since i think ocn has the biggest (?) cable sleeving community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/f/17973/cables-and-sleeving
> 
> but yea sleeving does nothing functional except maybe help durability...


Braided cables are actually good, until you don't need to move or bend them all the time. For a keyboard or PSU it's good, but on a mouse it's just a pain.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Braided cables can slide on the pad more easily than unbraided, in some cases, no?


If you place or fix your mouse cable right, it doesn't even has to touch the pad.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> My g303 arrived and indeed it's rattles, god dammit. Should i just ignore it?


A little rattle is always there, If the lens doesn't move then it's ok.


----------



## Conceptx

Okay guys, 3rd version of G303 arrived, now it came directly from Logitech Netherland, and even though it's seem they are properly packaged now, not just throwed in the package (no wavy feet, and now they added some foil to cover the bottom and the black shiny stripe at the top), the fact is that it rattles just like the first and 2nd version.

It is 100% sure its the lense/optic(transparent plastic part), because if you grab a screwdriver, and push it a little it moves. Also if you strain it a little with the screwdriver to one side, it makes the lense stick a little, and it will be good after that, no rattle at all. But if you start to shake the mosue a bit more or you lift it up because you run out of mousepad and put down a little harder, the lens starts to rattle again.

So Im sure it would be an easy fix, but because of the warranty you cant take it apart and fiy it for yourself. It's a shame because it is a damn solid mouse when i can make the lense fixed for seconds with that strain trick. Also when it doesnt rattles the snesor doesnt draw hooks at all.


----------



## hiccup

I had the same issue with rattling on my g303. Today I'll send this mouse back to the retailer after logitech told me I have to contact the place I've bought the mouse (here in Germany). But I'll skip the replacement process and take my money back, since this issue hasn't been really solved.


----------



## Conceptx

Yeah it seems like its early production, so if someone wants to buy one maybe its better to wait till they fix it.

Also the colors of the leds are a bit different, the new one represents the white better, on the old one its a bit greenish.

Edit: I managed to fix the sensor on the old one with the straining-technique. Not sure though how long it will last, but man its a whole lot of difference. The mouse feels soo solid now.

Few pics of the new with still foil on it


----------



## altf4

As longest the mouse works flawlessly it's fine, the rattle doesn't even bother me i can't even hear it unless i shake really hard.


----------



## TriviumKM

My rattle comes from the dpi switch. If i hold the switch in place and shake my mouse there's absolutely no rattle.


----------



## Conceptx

None of my 3 had dpi rattle problem, but all of them is rattling because of the optics


----------



## altf4

Ye it's the transparent plastic thingy which rattles nothing too crazy, still abit disappointing for a 70$ mouse (i got it for 50$) but for me most of the things is positive in terms of performance i kinda starting to like the omron switches more than huanos because my shoots is really on point especially with awp -/ i'm still miss clicking mouse 2 quite often which is annoying feels like i don't even press it LOL takes so little force.


----------



## Melan

I just noticed that after 3 days of use my 2nd 303 started rattling too. Lens is moving when poked around, which wasn't the case on first unit.

Edit: Forgot to mention, yesterday I tuned sensor to my corepad and did about 30-ish ~6m/s swings. All this flinging might be the reason why it started rattling, idk. Either way so far no side effects.


----------



## qsxcv

well the lens mounting is similar to that of the adns9800/9500. the lens has two plastic spikes which go through the sensor to ensure alignment. on the g303 and g502 those spikes are "heat staked" (top of spikes are melted and flattened to form somewhat of a rivet). there is a bit of movement/rattle possible if you take out the pcb and push on the lens, but iirc on the g303 the pcb presses against the lens pretty tightly. so if you can move the lens while everything is still in the mouse, probably the pcb screws/mounts got a bit loose from your 6m/s flinging


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well the lens mounting is similar to that of the adns9800/9500. the lens has two plastic spikes which go through the sensor to ensure alignment. on the g303 and g502 those spikes are "heat staked" (top of spikes are melted and flattened to form somewhat of a rivet). there is a bit of movement/rattle possible if you take out the pcb and push on the lens, but iirc on the g303 the pcb presses against the lens pretty tightly. so if you can move the lens while everything is still in the mouse, *probably the pcb screws/mounts got a bit loose from your 6m/s flinging*


Maybe the hot weather?


----------



## gst800

Bought my g303 like 2 weeks ago or so and i aswell had this rattling lens problem; i was too lazy to go to shop and exchange it so i disassembled the mouse and with a help of some adhesive tape firmly fixed lens on its place, problem was fixed and 2 or whatever weeks have passed and everything is going great. I have to say tho, those tiny screws they used in this mouse are like the worst things ever for anyone who want to fix something in the mice themself, they are so ******* tiny and easy to scratch that i almost broke 1 of them. Thank god i got lucky and managed to screw/unscrew them back.
Was abit dissapointed i had to fail my warranty from day1 just because their quality control is so **** now, but after fixing its a great mouse with shape that actually suits my fingertip grip. Sensor is amazing, buttons are probably the best on the market, shape is questionable but if ur a fan of fingertip grip like me its great. In my opinion biggest downside of this mouse is not shape (its just a personal thing, it either suits you or it doesnt) but that fat braided cord which is fixed so close to the bottom of the mouse torso that even mouse bungee cant prevent you from hearing that annoying scratching of braided cable against a cloth pad, if not wearing headphones its pretty annoying and disgusting sound. So instead of making it loose and hang from mouse bungee like i did to every cable on any other mice before, i have to actually tighten that cable so that its always in the air and not scratching against the pad, or i have to switch cloth to my plastic func1030.

Anyway can highly recommend dis mouse if fingertip grip is your thing and ur hand is not really that big (mine is exactly 18cm). But no way in hell ill buy another logitech product after this mouse dies, this company keeps dissapointing me again and again, 2x g400s both with first failing cable but then failing mouse buttons, now this rattling sensor of g303 which is ofcourse fixable but leaves kinda bad taste since its a ******* 70$ mouse and you expect some sort of quality...30$ a4teches which i have plenty of never had any problems with lens rattling, their cables survive for years and are thin/real lightweight, and their huano clicks are real easy/comfortable to click (unlike fail zowie); if only a4tech made some proper mice with sensors of 3366 level, sigh.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gst800*
> 
> 30$ a4teches which i have plenty of never had any problems with lens rattling, their cables survive for years and are thin/real lightweight,


could you compare to zowie and razer cables?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe the hot weather?


I have consistent 26 C at home which isn't anywhere near hot where hardware can get damaged.

Don't really want to take this mouse apart since I have no hotline feet and MX-1 hyperglides proved to be rather "meh" on 303. As long as this rattle doesn't make mouse flop on me during gaming, I guess it's alright. Neither I want to contact Logitech about it since I already feel like a pompous little princess for getting new mouse only because I didn't like how braided layer was looking.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> MX-1 hyperglides proved to be rather "meh" on 303


how come? they fit right?


----------



## Melan

They fit, but I don't like the glide compared to standard feet.


----------



## qsxcv

well if you want stock feet,
http://support.logitech.com/parts

$3
idk how shipping works tho


----------



## Melan

Yeah, US shop won't work for me. Local site doesn't have 303 feet yet though.


----------



## Cloudy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> They fit, but I don't like the glide compared to standard feet.


More friction or something else?


----------



## Melan

Plastic borders around feet scratch mousepad a lot. I though it won't be an issue on harder pad like corepad but even there it's a problem.


----------



## qsxcv

on my g303, before i destroyed it, i removed the top feet and used 2 of the ninox aurora's replacement feet. i never noticed any differences from the stock feet. this was on the allsop raindrop... idk how hard it is compared to other cloth pads


----------



## gst800

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> could you compare to zowie and razer cables?


i dont currently own a working zowie or razer mouse and cant make a photo comparison, so youll have to trust my word on that but if i could describe them in couple words, a4tech cords are:
1) thinnest (if you know how thin was original g400s cord with no brading, for example a4tech bloody v8's cord is thinner then that and it has brading)
2) its about as stiff as roccat kone pure military cord
3) and it saves form but i honestly didnt notice that while playing with it having mouse bungee

at one point i wanted to replace one of my broken g400s's cords with that of an a4tech bloody v8, sadly socket for the cable on a4tech was different and didnt fit in :[

there u go, ur comparison, i apologize for talking about different brand in this topic
going back to g303, if you guys have any more questions bout it, id be happy to share my opinion since i have this mouse for abit now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> on my g303, before i destroyed it, i removed the top feet and used 2 of the ninox aurora's replacement feet. i never noticed any differences from the stock feet. this was on the allsop raindrop... idk how hard it is compared to other cloth pads


hey man, abit of an offtopic but hows allsop raindrop compares vs qck heavy ? i heard all sorts of nice things about allsop and sadly have no option to buy it anywhere in close vicinity (Russia / Saint Petersburg) but was considering shipping one of those or a puretrak talent, or should i just go with qck heavy as a safe bet (no 50$+ shipping from us like on puretraks)? hows the allsop + g303 with stock feet combo?


----------



## Conceptx

Guys, can someoneof those who already take it apart, can you post some high quality shots of the inside?? Or a video of a disassembly, I would liek to see how that plastic thing is fixed there?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Guys, can someoneof those who already take it apart, can you post some high quality shots of the inside?? Or a video of a disassembly, I would liek to see how that plastic thing is fixed there?


Check the gallery of this thread.

The lens is attached to the sensor housing.


----------



## dwnfall

So after using this mouse for like 6+ hours everyday for about 2 weeks now I see the issue with the shape.

I get pain in the area between my thumb and index finger and I believe it is from the mouse shape. The side curves out so much I have to keep my thumb spread out pretty far from my index finger. This is causing a lot of pain in the web area between these two fingers. I am gonna have to look into a new mouse with a shape that will allow my thumb to stay close to my index finger. Any ideas? Any help appreciated.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> So after using this mouse for like 6+ hours everyday for about 2 weeks now I see the issue with the shape.
> 
> I get pain in the area between my thumb and index finger and I believe it is from the mouse shape. The side curves out so much I have to keep my thumb spread out pretty far from my index finger. This is causing a lot of pain in the web area between these two fingers. I am gonna have to look into a new mouse with a shape that will allow my thumb to stay close to my index finger. Any ideas? Any help appreciated.


I have said the same thing.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2370_30#post_23839828
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2400_30#post_23840883
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2490_30#post_23864058
http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1770_30#post_24064002
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I tried to force myself onto the G303 because of the price cut and the sensor but my thumb was getting murdered. I couldn't bend it without it shaking and hurting at the end of one day. I haven't had that happen to me before.
> 
> This might sound like BS because I specifically questioned your injury in the other thread because it sounded ridiculous but this is the truth. I even included this detail in the return.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I don't want to sound like a drama queen, but it did feel like I hurt my hand by forcing myself to use the mouse with precision. It was causing "discomfort" to my palm and fingers. I was too stubborn to tap out before I got used to the sensor. My thumb was fine after a couple of days, however, my palm felt odd/bruised (it still kind of does). It's the first time I ever experienced this with a mouse.


----------



## dwnfall

Interesting. What mouse do you use now? This pain is not worth the precision.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> Interesting. What mouse do you use now? This pain is not worth the precision.


After using the G303 I switched to the 9000 FPS Intellimouse. Now I am back to using my Zowie AM-GS.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> Interesting. What mouse do you use now? This pain is not worth the precision.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I am back to using my Zowie AM-GS.
Click to expand...

Everyone goes back to a Zowie Mouse (Common sense really)







.


----------



## brainzasif

Hey guys I just got my G303 and I dont have that weird sensor rattling issue. (THANK GOD







)

That's a relief, also I just love the grip and feel, as I'm a pure claw gripper and have Medium sized hands.

Further as quoted time and time again, the sensor is just delicious, coming from a steelseries Sensei, the difference is just worlds apart.

So thumbs up LOGITECH









Also I would like to add the grip and surface and side coatings of the mouse are fabulous as I swet a lot during intense and long gaming sessions where I usually ONLY play CSGO, the mouse stays firm and grippy through out the time.

Excellent product and was worth the wait.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

The G303 is on sale today on the Best Buy website for $30, free shipping:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-optical-gaming-mouse-black/4801031.p?acampID=0&ref=8575135&loc=0&id=1219638966934&skuId=4801031

Just a quick FYI for people who might be interested in trying out this mouse.


----------



## lolwatpear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Yeah it seems like its early production, so if someone wants to buy one maybe its better to wait till they fix it.
> 
> Also the colors of the leds are a bit different, the new one represents the white better, on the old one its a bit greenish.
> 
> Edit: I managed to fix the sensor on the old one with the straining-technique. Not sure though how long it will last, but man its a whole lot of difference. The mouse feels soo solid now.
> 
> Few pics of the new with still foil on it


Hey, I just got mine and it doesn't have any plastic protection on it. Are all of the brand new ones supposed to have this, or was this previously opened?


----------



## Poopsticker

How does the sensor/performance of the G303 compare to the Deathadder Chroma's sensor?


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lolwatpear*
> 
> Hey, I just got mine and it doesn't have any plastic protection on it. Are all of the brand new ones supposed to have this, or was this previously opened?


Mine came without it too.


----------



## Conceptx

So first two version came without that protection(both were from local store), but the 3rd one came directly from Logitech, from Netherland, and it has got the protection. I guess they are improving also the packaging.


----------



## brainzasif

Mine came with the hard plastic protection. And it doesn't have the rattling issue.


----------



## theglobalelite

*WARNING WALL OF TEXT - STORY OF MY THUG LYFE
*
Ok so, after i burned out totally because of the g100s malfunction even when sitting at spawn, and almost not even moving the mouse, i decided to get a new one. Sadly, the one what i liked the most in my CS carrier (MX300) is totally impossible to buy, only for pathethic price (over 150euros), i had no idea what to buy...

Im the one who using a very low sens. That means 360/1meter. Yes 1 meter, 100cm, exactly. Also my hand is pretty small, especially my fingers. Thats why i bought the g100s a few months ago.

Okay, so a little about me, playing competetive CS since 2004, at the highest level of my own scene. Played on LANs, ect. So i got a pretty big standard about my performance. Also, when i noticed the negative acceleration in my first "gamer" mouse (MS WMO 1.1A), i had a huge suffer because i was unable to find the optimal mouse for myself. I sold the ms 1.1a, and without knowledge about the whole thing, i bought a Logitech G1. I liked it, but i found that its had the same freakin neg. accel., like the ms1.1a had. But i liked the shape more, so i kept it for about 2years. After that, Razer came out with the Deathadder. I was excited, maybe this one will be better i said! That time i still didnt know that not every single mouse got its own sensor. So still, i didnt know what the freakin hell im doing, and bought the DA. Okay, the negative accel was still there, but not that much. I still was able to hit the negative accel, but prolly only if i wanted to, and in a real time action, i dont think that i even noticed it. But it was huge, i was unable to hold it my hand, and because of my low sens, i had to lift a lot. Also its had such a high LOD... After a while, i decided to sell it, and get the diamondback 3g. Same sensor i said, but smaller. Dayumm what a pathethic mouse it was for me! Unstable because of the shape, it was tilting on the mousepad always. Also that edge on the sides was bothering me a lot. Then i found the ESR mouse score table. Dayumm what is that Logitech mx300 thing is? Same shape as the g1? Also the same tracking speed like the Razers? Wow, thats for me i said... I bought an used one for very cheap that time, had to fix the buttons a few times, but i loved it, it was my forever love. Still had the negative accel if i flicked like a monster, but who cared? I didnt. Never experienced it in a real action. Never malfunctioned. Fitted to my hands like nothing else...

And i lost it. I mean i really lost it, after stopped to play competetive CS, and moved even to another country... I lost it. I had no idea where is it... And my love gone... I was very sad, im still very sad...

But, i was back to play CS, i mean CS:GO. I needed a new mouse, what is okay for competetive gaming. In the first few months i had not that much money, i had to build a new PC, bills, everything, so i had to start with very basic things, like an A4tech x7-710 (maybe 718, i dont remember), with a "custom" surface. (custom means a 2$ cloth shopping bag, what felt better than a QCK - i hate that one)
After that a friend of mine gave me my old Razer DA. Yes that one what i sold years ago. The DA what was with me on a few LANs. What a nice few weeks was that hehehe... Because its died very quickly. That friend gave me an another DA, but a 3.5g. That one died aswell in a few months. RIP Also i had a few hours with a kinzu v2 pro. What a mouse is that? 2nd worse in the history after the ms 4.0. But atleast that one is an old mouse, nothing can save the kinzu for me. Nothing.

A few weeks with a MS 4.0 - MOST TERRIBLE I EVER SEEN BEFORE DAYM

And i found the g100s. Okay, so lets see what we got here, costed 15$ for me, old shape, 2.8m/s perfect tracking. Should be enough i said. And it was for a few months. I noticed that i hit the malfunction speed every day. Later, every match. Later every match i had atleast 1-2 malf. because of the moving !!! not flick shots, but looking behind me, and such things. Everytime something dust, hair, whatever, malfunctioned. Even on spawn.

Okay so i said before that i wanted a new mouse because of the very faulty g100s. I wanted the perfect mouse for myself. I knew that nothing will replace the mx300 in my heart, but finally, i was clever enough to discover for weeks, months, about the actual choices. I wanted a small mouse and atleast a slightly light mouse. Also i wanted something what can offer me atleast 4m/s perfect tracking. Also i wanted something what can offer me the "razer feeling" on the buttons. I mean razer had such a cool, fast, responsive, and cool feeling buttons, that i wanted back in my life. Not something trash in terms of quality (hello razer).

That day when i decided to lets buy something now for real, my sister's kinzu died. The right button. Okay, im not sure about this one, correct me if im wrong, but the kinzu got the freakin huano switches. Felt terrible when it was new. And its even died in less than 2 years? Well, the razer ones can last for 1-1.5 year also, and that one doesnt feel terrible when its new atleast!

That was the thought what killed the Zowie in my eyes. I dont want that kinzu style rubbish buttons. NOWAI
Mionix avior 7000, Asus strix claw, Ninox Aurora... And the Logitech g303. I was in a huge fear, because i know that i will buy the Logitech... I like the Logitech! Never dissapointed me. Not even the g100s, that was a very cheap mouse! Half of the kinzu v2! STILL 1000X BETTER!!
I knew what i will do, but damn, that shape... I had no clue how it will fit to my hands... But i ordered it. Was the most expensive mouse in my life...

*AND THE BEST MOUSE IN MY LIFE.*

The first mouse what i can grip 5 different ways, and still feels comfortable for me. The first mouse what i cant even move that fast to hit negative acceleration, whatever i do. My poor Taito would burn in fire because of the friction, still this beast g303 would track perfectly! It feels responsive for me, accurate, everything is good, and lovely!!!

The buttons, the built in quality, the sensor, the weight, the shape... Everything is good. This is my mouse. And probably my final mouse.
Who ever say that MS1.1a/3.0 is better in terms of sensor is an idiot. A huge idiot. MS 1.1A failed me 10yrs ago. This one is not, and i use atleast 3times lower sens, than i used that time when i played with the 1.1A. With an 1.1a, i would not able to turn around, or to look behind a box in CS, because the sensor would freak the hell out. This one is like the extension of my hand.

10/10 by me


----------



## Melan

tl;dr


----------



## theglobalelite

I know no one will read that wall of text.

Conclusion is that i like this mouse even more than the mx300. God sent me this g303 thing fore sure!


----------



## TriviumKM

I read it; it's cool that you found your perfect mouse.


----------



## Melan

Glad you like it. People hate it like plague around here though. Even I'm thinking about going G402 way.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Glad you like it. People hate it like plague around here though. Even I'm thinking about going G402 way.


The G303 has a superb pcb and sensor no arguments there at all BUT it's shape is what afflicts it. I know they (Logitech) wanted to make a mouse for smaller hands and maybe even for the growing Asian Market out there but currently as it's released here in the West, it wins little support.

Haven't heard from many Asians here on OCN, whether they like using the G303 just yet, so I look forward to their comments regarding the G303 series.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> The G303 is on sale today on the Best Buy website for $30, free shipping:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-optical-gaming-mouse-black/4801031.p?acampID=0&ref=8575135&loc=0&id=1219638966934&skuId=4801031
> 
> Just a quick FYI for people who might be interested in trying out this mouse.


Hmm... I would buy it. However, I will be upset if a new shape is announced after I do. Although, I could just use the PCB for an attempt at putting it into an Intellimouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lolwatpear*
> 
> Hey, I just got mine and it doesn't have any plastic protection on it. Are all of the brand new ones supposed to have this, or was this previously opened?


Mine didn't have that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Glad you like it. People hate it like plague around here though. Even I'm thinking about going G402 way.


Only 60% of them...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> The G303 has a superb pcb and sensor no arguments there at all BUT it's shape is what afflicts it. I know they (Logitech) wanted to make a mouse for smaller hands and maybe even for the growing Asian Market out there but currently as it's released here in the West, it wins little support.
> 
> Haven't heard from many Asians here on OCN, whether they like using the G303 just yet, so I look forward to their comments regarding the G303 series.


I am fine with the length of the mouse. Although, I prefer a mouse to be 125mm or longer. If the shape is great, a 115mm length would be fine.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theglobalelite*
> 
> *WARNING WALL OF TEXT - STORY OF MY THUG LYFE
> *
> 10/10 by me


So basically that huge wall of text that no one cared to read said that you hated the deathadder because you are an extremely low sens player (I'm guessing >80cm/360) and hit the malfunction speed all the time. Too bad there was no mouse at the time with a higher malfunction speed. So either CHANGE your sensitivity or don't play PC games.

Yes, 3366 sensor a human can not hit the malfunction speed at all in any normal usage.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> The G303 has a superb pcb and sensor no arguments there at all BUT it's shape is what afflicts it. I know they (Logitech) wanted to make a mouse for smaller hands and maybe even for the growing Asian Market out there but currently as it's released here in the West, it wins little support.
> 
> Haven't heard from many Asians here on OCN, whether they like using the G303 just yet, so I look forward to their comments regarding the G303 series.


currently have the G302, have had it since it came out, the shape is personally fine for me (but I wouldn't say perfectly comfortable, maybe more neutral), the mouse doesn't really cramp after long use but my hands get somewhat sweaty, and so I've been considering the G303 since it's basically an upgrade, but I've also been wanting a more ergonomic palm grip mouse so I'm also looking at the Deathadder Chroma.

Oh, and I'm asian.


----------



## Omega215d

I'm Asian and came from the Roccat Savu and Logitech G502 (it's now a productivity mouse after my G500 died) and have already expressed that I'm good with the shape of the G303. I was doubtful at first but it didn't take long. I also have longish fingers. My G303's number starts w/ 1512 and nothing rattles nor has any movement or parts near the sensor.


----------



## theglobalelite

Where did i say that i hated the DA because of that? I cant even make it malf. Only negative accel. And the problem with the DA was the weight and shape, i was unable to grip it, it felt down about 1/10 of the times when i lifted it. Thats why i changed it to a db 3g that time. Not because of the sensor. I still wanted something even better in terms of that, but i knew that it was not existent that time.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> currently have the G302, have had it since it came out, the shape is personally fine for me (but I wouldn't say perfectly comfortable, maybe more neutral), the mouse doesn't really cramp after long use but my hands get somewhat sweaty, and so I've been considering the G303 since it's basically an upgrade, but I've also been wanting a more ergonomic palm grip mouse so I'm also looking at the Deathadder Chroma.
> 
> Oh, and I'm asian.


Good to hear that







.

Like hearing from people that find it's comfortable for them, although the current DA Chroma is a considerably bigger mouse shape than the G303.

If you still want an ergonomic right handed shape but on a smaller size, why not consider the Zowie EC2-A ?


----------



## fnade

So basically, i ordered this mouse 2 months ago.
At first i was surprised how light and how easy it was to move it around, i wish the cable was lighter, but meh it's good anyways.
So i played around with it, for like some weeks didn't feel it much, but i loved the sensor, except at first i didn't understand why my cursor and crosshair were appearing so weardly @ my monitor screen, at first i thought it had to to do something with the mouse Hz stability, but after reading comments i was aware of unstable mouse frame rates, that was a bit of pain in the ass, but now i'm kinda used with that.
Since last week i decided to put it back on my PC, and give it a second chance after some more sensitivity changing and resolution tests, i found out my best settings.

At only few hours in CSGO deathmatch i was back in shape with great spray control in csgo, and aim, the lightweight of mouse makes it really easy to make fast corner checks, and sharp spray downs.

Would recommend this mouse to anyone, who's used to claw grip, has maybe a medium size or smaller hands.

P.S Would be great if Logitech would pull out an firmware update with fixed frame rates.


----------



## altf4

Ye i got used to the shape also took couple of days, and almost got rid of the bad habbit to missclick mouse2 (reason is switched from fk1 hard clicks),sensor performance 10/10 no doubt about it hella smooth.


----------



## Pa12a

Gonna get the G303 tomorrow, I personally love the shape (ring/pinky align perfectly on the right side, same for the thumb on the left).

Even though the G502 is almost perfect for me, I do prefer the rubber scroll wheel and the ambidextrous shape because I've been using a WMO and FK for very long, next to my G400 which probably was the only ergonomic mouse I liked.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Good to hear that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Like hearing from people that find it's comfortable for them, although the current DA Chroma is a considerably bigger mouse shape than the G303.
> 
> If you still want an ergonomic right handed shape but on a smaller size, why not consider the Zowie EC2-A ?


I got to try the DA Chroma at my local Best Buy, and it seems to actually fit my hand pretty well. I don't know if my hands are considered to be large or even medium sized (measures 18-19 cm from wrist to middle finger), so would I still be able to palm grip the EC2-A? How does the EC2-A compare to the G303 and DA Chroma with all the typical factors included (Sensor/performance, acceleration, smoothing/angle snapping, size, etc.)?

Anyways, I might actually consider the Zowie EC2-A also. I'm just sorta on undecided terms here. I might just try out all 3 mice and get a feel for each of them ingame.


----------



## theglobalelite

My sister just received her Chroma, i tested it in CS:GO. It felt like a little additional "help" is included in that compared to the g303, didnt feel that raw. But still very good, very much an improvement over the 3.5g DA what i had in the past. Also felt better in quality. The shape is great, if your hands are big enough to grip it well, than its probably the most comfortable mouse to use imo. I did crazy 455mm flicks with it, and didnt accel to negative, and didnt malfunctioned, so its a great sensor overall. Still it wasnt that great for me like the g303. The mouse1-2 buttons felt good, the side buttons on the other hand still very poor. Also the wheel was so easy to move that i have a feeling that u can make it move even if you dont want to. Also the anti slippery on the mouse, and the rubber on the side felt very great for me.

Its a very nice mouse imo, i liked it. If my hands would be bigger, i would say that its better than the g303 because of the shape. The sensor is just a little bit worse than this 3366 for me.

If you want to see how it is behaved in cs:go in a few big flicks you can see the video here what i just made today. Hungarian language, but if you ignore it, maybe you can find a little help in these.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjgZ65fR9Fd2aeN0j6NfA9m9RFrEjfYt2


----------



## Thraxx

I got 18cm hands and the deathadder fits good in my hand. But the measures of the DA r more similiar to the ac1 than the ac2, but i have some doubt. Anyway i bought the ac1.


----------



## Pa12a

A fortunate event made me have this mouse the day before my birthday as a relative is gonna be out for 2 months, so I'm pretty happy and pretty happy at the results using it for an entire day.

Like I played the crap out of the mouse today, like 6-7h straight playing in CSGO and I didn't feel any fatigue or pain, thank the lord, since initially I just looked if the grip itself was alright and not the grip after longer sessions nor the mouse itself (shops, you know the drill).

I normally bend my thumb when I grip my mouse in a claw grip, I can never imagine having it straight... My ring and pinky are angled inwards like 45° and it's pretty damn comfy, lucky me. Sensor feels just like the 3366 in the G502 and it's basically the same feeling just without all the weight. 90g is like the sweet spot when it comes to me mice and IIRC it's around that weight I guess. Scroll wheel is amazing. It's light but still kinda clicky when scrolling which I really do like.

I noticed the sensor rattling but seriously, you're never going to hear that even with speakers. Like I use a Superlux and I don't hear it with these on, sometimes I don't even notice it rattling until I focus like super hard on it without anything on my bonce.

But yeah I'm pretty happy, I did training_aim_csgo like 10 times in a row and did 78-85/100 and a lot of pugging, hand wasn't in a thousand pieces.

Soooo, you can all sit here searching while I enjoy my new toy, ah-hah!


----------



## dmbr

Any Logitech reps reading?

I'd like to know if we can expect a firmware update soon (with a surface calibration fix?).


----------



## Melan

I started getting occasional malfunctions (snap to sky or ground with spinning) on my 2nd 303. That happens pretty much on every speed. Time to drop surface calibration









Oh and it never was an issue on 1st 303 where lens was ok, too bad every I don't have that unit anymore.

Edit: Well, derp. Apparently I was using default profile. Forgot to switch to my corepad one after playing with mousetester. RMA time!


----------



## qsxcv

has anyone "captured" this malfunctioning in mousetester?

maybe just use log start and play a game normally until you see it malfunction


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Any Logitech reps reading?
> 
> I'd like to know if we can expect a firmware update soon (with a surface calibration fix?).


Logitech fix pls


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

True please FIX IT very low lod


----------



## mg7l0k

Logitech please firmware update with fixed frame rates!


----------



## fnade

Maybe we should address the issue trough Logitech support, not a big chance anyone here will notice this.


----------



## e4stw00t

But isn't this forum the center of the gaming peripheral world ;-)


----------



## treav0r

got my 303 today and it instantly replaced the za11 as my main mouse. my 302 is now back on my laptop


----------



## Poopsticker

What's a good DPI/DPI range to use for the G303?


----------



## Melan

Any. But of course, within reason it would be 400-2000 CPI.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Any. But of course, within reason it would be 400-2000 CPI.


Are there no Native DPI steps for optimal tracking for the G303, because it uses the 3366 sensor?


----------



## Melan

Define optimal tracking.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Define optimal tracking.


Honestly, I still consider myself relatively new to all of this but things like jitter, acceleration, smoothing/angle snapping/prediction, Interpolation, etc. anything you don't want in a gaming mouse.


----------



## Melan

Well, at 12000 CPI it will jitter alright.

As for anything else, no weird acceleration, no smoothing, angle snapping can be turned on if you want. Don't bother your self with this "sciency" mojo. What you don't really want in a gaming mouse is the shape that makes your hand hurt after 1 hour of use.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Any. But of course, within reason it would be 400-2000 CPI.


Yeah uh, just wanted to ask if there's any discrepancies with the CPI...

I use 2000 anyway cause I always used 2000 on my G5, but for example the 800 CPI step on the G502 was faster/slower than 400(idk anymore), does anybody know smth bout that?


----------



## Melan

So was it faster or slower? It isn't always precisely 400 on 400 CPI step etc.

On same sensitivity setting (on desktop with 6/11) 800 will be obviously faster than 400.

Edit: From what I noticed, my 303 has 415 CPI on 400 step. Higher I go - higher the difference. 831 CPI on 800 step. 12772 on 12000.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Edit: From what I noticed, my 303 has 415 CPI on 400 step. Higher I go - higher the difference. 831 CPI on 800 step. 12772 on 12000.


that's all I needed, 800 and 1.3 was 1cm off from 400 and 2.6


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> that's all I needed, 800 and 1.3 was 1cm off from 400 and 2.6


Do you understand that with what Melan's describing about his mouse, there would be no difference for him between the 400 dpi setting and 2.6 sens compared to using the 800 dpi setting and 1.3 sens? The difference between the two setups for him would be 0 cm.


----------



## Melan

Maybe CPI scales wrong on his mouse. Check with mouse tester.


----------



## altf4

Anyone tried contacting Logitech Support about the surface tuning bug?


----------



## emexci

got my g303 yesterday and I'm happy with it. using at 800-1000 dpi and play cod. after 1hour i could get headshot easy like g9. lights are cool but i never use it. middle button is not rattle on mine. for now it seems i got my g9 upgrade.

i used my old g9 before until it's died(cable problems and windows could not identify it). ordered rog sica before, lod is high(maybe they fix it with software but anyway). i use palm and claw grip. and sica was uncomfortable for me. moving it on g440 mousepad is little bit noisy too. so i send (rog sica) back to amazon.


----------



## RDno1

I'm sending the one I got back because I don't like the shape, but then again, I rarely do. I may have kept it if it had the G100S shape though. Love the sensor.


----------



## trriL

I'm finally getting a G303, it should arrive on the 20th.

I might shove it into a different shell, IME 3.0(3)?


----------



## altf4

My cable already wearing out 1 week of use ***?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> My cable already wearing out 1 week of use ***?


That happens with braided cables. Mine was fraying after two days of use.


----------



## Omega215d

Is it rubbing against a rough/ abrasive surface? In any case contact Logitech about a replacement as that shouldn't happen.

My cable is rubbing on the edge of my keyboard tray and the cable on my G303 and Savu are fine (both have braided cables) with the Savu having a slight fraying after a couple of years of use. Despite getting my G303 for cheap I'm keeping an eye on the cable after having the G500 kink up and eventually failing after a few years. My G502 is fine but it's in an office environment and not rubbing against anything.


----------



## hasukka

Anyone know how exactly the surface calibration works? I assume it tunes the settings by tweaking the hardware some way, but the question is. Does the setting get saved on the internal memory of the mouse?

If I delete the drivers and use m_rawinput 1, the setting still affects my gameplay? I assume it does, but I've had problems with LGS not detecting my mouse so I don't want to uninstall my drivers just to see it doesn't work, and then go about trying to get my LGS software to recognise the G303 again.


----------



## Omega215d

I wouldn't use surface calibration. Did you try unplugging the mouse then uninstalling the LGS and then plug the mouse back in after restarting the system? In the LGS I make sure the On-Board Memory option is checked off instead of system.


----------



## brainzasif

Guys do let me know if anyone has tested whether this mouse is accurate on all dpi steps, or on the lower dpis like 400 & 800 dpi or whether it's more accurate on higher dpis


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brainzasif*
> 
> Guys do let me know if anyone has tested whether this mouse is accurate on all dpi steps, or on the lower dpis like 400 & 800 dpi or whether it's more accurate on higher dpis


The higher the CPI above the hardware resolution the more noise there is. Thus, the performance/accuracy is decreased. This applies to any CMOS sensor.


----------



## qsxcv

true for 2d/desktop, but in 3d fps games if you keep the same cm/360 sensitivity by increasing dpi and decreasing in-game sens, the grid of possible angles becomes finer. there's noise on this grid but actually it's less noisy than the quantization noise due to the coarser grid for lower dpis
e.g. 12000dpi vs 800dpi









but anyway these are <1pixel effects if you use a reasonable sensitivity and it's really not a big deal. on older sensors (e.g. 3090) with 8bit motion data you may have lower max speed with higher dpi. also if you use m_rawinput 0 you could run into neg accel issues from cursor-hitting-edge-of-screen, and this is made worse by high dpi


----------



## espn

Do you guys feel the different between G303 and G302? Look exactly the same but half of its price?


----------



## Melan

I didn't. Well, maybe just an occasional malfunction during very fast swipes on G302 but other than that - no.


----------



## Atavax

The most noticeable difference is improved glide from better skates on the g303. But I think new g302 have the better skates as well.


----------



## Nievin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Do you guys feel the different between G303 and G302? Look exactly the same but half of its price?


The G303 has a better cord and additional feet to fix the wobbling issue from the g302. The sensor also feels much better but that is mostly opinion.


----------



## Conceptx

Is there any news about the rattling issue? First one I purchased from local store. Then went back to exchange it because of the rattling issue. Then the 2nd G303 was rattling too so I called Logitech. They sent me a 3rd one, that is rattling too. Now they only send me replacement if I crash both the faulty G303.
Honestly I don't know what to do, maybe I can fix it too, or I can disable them with a hammer but I have to wait another week or more and its not even sure that the 4th is good? They say they don't know any unusual amount of reported faults. I can't believe I've got the 3rd replacement G303 and its rattling too.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nievin*
> 
> The G303 has a better cord and additional feet to fix the wobbling issue from the g302. The sensor also feels much better but that is mostly opinion.


Don't take my word for it, but apparently the newer G302s have the feet on the sides like the G303. To ensure the newest one, it is best to buy from Amazon.


----------



## draterrojam

Where can i get feet for this mouse? I bought it and one of the feet was coming off almost. I messaged Logitech but they didn't help for nothing. Terrible support.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *draterrojam*
> 
> Where can i get feet for this mouse? I bought it and one of the feet was coming off almost. I messaged Logitech but they didn't help for nothing. Terrible support.


http://support.logitech.com/product/gaming-mouse-g303

On their site.


----------



## Omega215d

What is the serial number of your G303? I got one at Best Buy with the serial no. starting with 1511 and found that it had the rattling issues and a pretty poor scroll wheel compared to the one I originally bought which begins with 1512. I also tried out one from Microcenter which had no rattling and a more solid scroll and left click than the 1511 from Best Buy. The serial no. also began 1512.


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> What is the serial number of your G303? I got one at Best Buy with the serial no. starting with 1511 and found that it had the rattling issues and a pretty poor scroll wheel compared to the one I originally bought which begins with 1512. I also tried out one from Microcenter which had no rattling and a more solid scroll and left click than the 1511 from Best Buy. The serial no. also began 1512.


1511 and 1518 both rattling.


----------



## Ukkooh

When I shake my G303 I hear a little bit of rattling. Is there any way to figure out if the lens is loose or if it is something else? Does anyone in here have a G303 with a lens that is firmly in place but still hears the rattling sound?


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> When I shake my G303 I hear a little bit of rattling. Is there any way to figure out if the lens is loose or if it is something else? Does anyone in here have a G303 with a lens that is firmly in place but still hears the rattling sound?


You can easily find it out


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> 1511 and 1518 both rattling.


I see. Maybe 1511 batch is bad but I haven't seen the 1518s out in any of the stores I go to, they're all 1512 with a couple of 1511s.


----------



## the1onewolf

My 1510 had the wobbles.

Wobbletech


----------



## qsxcv

1510, no rattle when i press all 5 buttons and shake.


----------



## Omega215d

Hopefully CPate is reading this thread and will intervene at some point or silently let Logitech know.


----------



## e4stw00t

Is there any proof out there that this affects your performance negatively in a real live scenario or is the forum going nuts again for no actual reason?

I have to put quite some force into shaking it for it to produce noticeable rattle noise - more than I would ever do when actually using the mouse.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Is there any proof out there that this affects your performance negatively in a real live scenario or is the forum going nuts again for no actual reason?
> 
> I have to put quite some force into shaking it for it to produce noticeable rattle noise - more than I would ever do when actually using the mouse.


What Conceptx had on his mouse was a real problem. At the stop of a hand movement, the mouse pointer jumped around a little. It was caused by the lens moving around. (I'm too lazy to find the posts.)


----------



## e4stw00t

Thank you for the clarification - was just curious. Should probably check mine as well.


----------



## Conceptx

Yes, all my 3 faulty g303 that has got this rattling issue is a real problem, not only at the end of a hand movement but at the beginning too.

It means that the combination of loose optics and the centrifugal force makes the pointer always a bit late compared to you hand movements.


----------



## Melan

I managed to fix lens wobble by pushing it in with q-tip.


----------



## e4stw00t

Yeah I noticed your youtube clip - will try to reproduce it myself when I am at home this evening - probably should be fine, since mine only rattles if I shake it like a madman


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Is there any proof out there that this affects your performance negatively in a real live scenario or is the forum going nuts again for no actual reason?
> 
> I have to put quite some force into shaking it for it to produce noticeable rattle noise - more than I would ever do when actually using the mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> Yeah I noticed your youtube clip - will try to reproduce it myself when I am at home this evening - probably should be fine, since mine only rattles if I shake it like a madman


Well clearly you don't have this particular issue. Move along.


----------



## e4stw00t

I got the 303 only today and not used at all till this evening, so I only was able to check if it's rattling at all (which it does) without being able to check if it has any noticeable effect in use (which it doesn't in my case).


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I think my G303 bit the dust. RIP 3/26/205-7/17/2015








I had calibration off too ._.


----------



## Melan

You spin me right round, baby right round like a record, baby right round round round.

On the serious note: I had my 303 spaz out on me in QL FFA 4 times in 30 seconds today. Ditched surface calibration for now.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You spin me right round, baby right round like a record, baby right round round round.
> 
> On the serious note: I had my 303 spaz out on me in QL FFA 4 times in 30 seconds today. Ditched surface calibration for now.


Rip. Logitech pls fix. In the meanwhile I need to look for a FPS suited mouse with a very raw sensor. I might actually get the FM2015 SE once I know for sure there are no more SE in Amazon US's stock.


----------



## Melan

Worst part is that I can't make it malfunction on purpose. It happens randomly in the wild.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Worst part is that I can't make it malfunction on purpose. It happens randomly in the wild.


Mines malfunction everytime.
Also that avatar O_O


----------



## doomleika

`
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Rip. Logitech pls fix. In the meanwhile I need to look for a FPS suited mouse with a very raw sensor. I might actually get the FM2015 SE once I know for sure there are no more SE in Amazon US's stock.


contact logitech for RMA


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

At least you have a bag of cheerios to ease the feels. Also, I don't even like the g303 and I would RMA that thing for one that works.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> `
> contact logitech for RMA


I will first thing tmw.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> At least you have a bag of cheerios to ease the feels. Also, I don't even like the g303 and I would RMA that thing for one that works.


Even Honey Nut Cheerios cant fix the hole in my kokoro.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Rip. Logitech pls fix. In the meanwhile I need to look for a FPS suited mouse with a very raw sensor. I might actually get the FM2015 SE once I know for sure there are no more SE in Amazon US's stock.


If you want a good mose DO NOT BUY FINALMOUSE. It is a bad mouse with a marketing campaign that seems to work well. If you want a raw 3310 buy a roccat kone pure military or one of the mionix mice with the 3310.


----------



## TUMME

Can it be because of lens rattling problem? My cursor is shaking when I stop moving the mouse...


----------



## qsxcv

could be... that's definitely weird if you don't see the same thing with another mouse (in which case it would probably mean that your hand shakes a little when stopping)


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUMME*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can it be because of lens rattling problem? My cursor is shaking when I stop moving the mouse...


Seems like that, but try this to be sure, I have the same problem.


----------



## TUMME

I dont see the same thing with another mouse...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Seems like that, but try this to be sure, I have the same problem.


exactly the same... hope it is warranty deed.


----------



## Conceptx

Yeah contact Logitech, I did the same, at least they will now that they f*cked it up this time badly.


----------



## TUMME

Did they send you new one?


----------



## Conceptx

Yes, ofc because it was brand new, out of the box so if they wanted to fix it instead of sending a new one then I would have better asked my money back. But the new one they sent me has the same problem. So I told it them again, but now they only send new when I break/disable the current and send them pictures of it.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> If you want a good mose DO NOT BUY FINALMOUSE. It is a bad mouse with a marketing campaign that seems to work well. If you want a raw 3310 buy a roccat kone pure military or one of the mionix mice with the 3310.


RAW ... yeah KPM RAW as in varying DPI.








Or Mionix RAW as in maximum smoothing.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

"Raw" as a mouse term never really worked. Also, the cpi bug on the KPM only occurred when the software lod calibration was used.

Steelseries fixed it on the Rival iirc. I think that it just comes down to the companies working with their oem/odm to iron any fw problems. I guess Dexin(Rival) was more flexible then Laview(Mionix,Roccat) in that regard. All is assumption of course, only they would know why.


----------



## Conceptx

Hey guys, I've made a video of fixing this annoying rattling problem.
I disassemble the mouse so you can see the problem and the inside of the mouse in the video.


----------



## TUMME

Great! Cursor stopped jiggle after that fix?


----------



## Conceptx

Yes, zero jiggle. Check the gallery, I posted images too about drawing in photoshop, about two weeks ago, you can see the cursor jiggle in that. Now that's completely gone.


----------



## TUMME

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Yes, zero jiggle. Check the gallery, I posted images too about drawing in photoshop, about two weeks ago, you can see the cursor jiggle in that. Now that's completely gone.


yes, I seen your video about it. Nice to hear it is gone \o/


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> If you want a good mose DO NOT BUY FINALMOUSE. It is a bad mouse with a marketing campaign that seems to work well. If you want a raw 3310 buy a roccat kone pure military or one of the mionix mice with the 3310.


Have you actually used it or are you just saying?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> Yes, zero jiggle. Check the gallery, I posted images too about drawing in photoshop, about two weeks ago, you can see the cursor jiggle in that. Now that's completely gone.


**** I seem to have the same problem now too. At first I couldn't understand why my cursor was moving slightly after I stopped moving it. I did the same test in paint by drawing multiple lines while holding M1 and get the same loops as you do.

I don't want to apply for RMA without knowing it's fixed and don't want them to think I'm abusing the warranty. @CPate please look into this when you can.


----------



## Conceptx

The worst thing is that they say "we are not aware of any unusual amount of reported faults"


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> The worst thing is that they say "we are not aware of any unusual amount of reported faults"


I PM'd CPate about it, if needed I can record a video on my desktop and show it. Very easy to see with a large cursor.

However there is one difference, if I poke the lens it doesn't move as much as yours does. And I don't want to put too much pressure to damage the thing and actually void the warranty :|

Edit: can be easily seen in the CSGO aim map video.

Edit: connected my G402 and did the same thing, perfect motion. Cursor stops when my mouse stops.


----------



## Conceptx

If your lens jiggles less, but your dpi is higher than mine then your cursor will move more. So even the smallest amount of lens movement is bad. I don't get it how can logitech make such a big mistake after being so long in the mouse market.


----------



## Menthalion

Could people with juggling and non-jiggling cursors post some mousetester graphs of circles, esp x- and y- velocity graphs ?
I think mine might have this problem and I'm seeing some pretty big outliers near the top and bottoms of the sine curves.


----------



## Conceptx

If you show me how to or point me to a tutorial i will do it. I have a fixed g303 and a rattling sitting on my desk so i can show you both


----------



## Menthalion

Download and extract mousetester
Start the .exe
Click 'Collect'
Keep left mouse button pressed, turn a few tens of circles with the mouse, release left mouse button
Click 'Plot'
From the dropdown left bottom choose 'xVelocity vs Time', take a screenshot
From the dropdown left bottom choose 'yVelocity vs Time', take a screenshot
Post the screenshots
Thanks for the trouble !


----------



## trriL

the ergonomics on this mouse are killing my soul, i want to love this mouse


----------



## TUMME

Did it with 12000 dpi with lens issue


----------



## TUMME

here I did it slower















and 400 cpi:




and here I moved mouse from left to right only:


----------



## Conceptx

*xvelocity when drawing circles*


*yvelocity when drawing circles*


*xvelocity when drawing left right*


*yvelocity when drawing left right*


----------



## AnimalK

So I have just confirmed my lens has about 0.5 to 1 mm of play by pushing on it gently with a q-tip. This could explain why I am unhappy with the tracking of my g303.

My first KPM was tracking very poorly and it was because it had a much more lose lens than this. The replacement had no such issue and I am still happy with it.

I will be calling Logitech customer support shortly.


----------



## Melan

Try pushing lens in with q-tip. Worked for me.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Try pushing lens in with q-tip. Worked for me.


Is this because the lens is snap in and it simply wasn't completely seated?


----------



## Melan

Yeah. Lens is attached to the PCB. I didn't want to disassemble my 303 so just pushed it "gently" and it worked.


----------



## altf4

For me the q tip push trick didin't worked
EDIT: feels like my rattle sound increased compared to first day that i got mouse.


----------



## AnimalK

So I tried pushing the lens in gently with a q-tip and it does indeed wobble much less if at all.

So I fired up paint and did some nice ~1m/s circles and I am surprised to find what I understand to be angle snapping?

*You must view the image in its original resolution to see clearly*. I also put some red dots on some of the most noticeable occurrences.


----------



## povohat

When you move more than 1 count per polling period, ms paint fills the gap with linear interpolation.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> When you move more than 1 count per polling period, ms paint fills the gap with linear interpolation.


Well that explains it. I wonder if GIMP will give me raw input.


----------



## povohat

Any paint software that has a freehand line drawing tool will probably do the same thing, otherwise it wouldn't be drawing a line


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Well that explains it. I wonder if GIMP will give me raw input.


not an issue of raw input

just how the data are visualized


----------



## AnimalK

Mouse Tester has an X Y plot visualization so I did some circles. I tried to keep them in the same general area.



I think that looks pretty good no?


----------



## qsxcv

yea but paint is easier to spot angle snapping and jitter imo


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> Any paint software that has a freehand line drawing tool will probably do the same thing, otherwise it wouldn't be drawing a line


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*


I think I can spot some trajectory anomalies when it begins to reach purely vertical or purely horizontal trajectories.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I think I can spot some trajectory anomalies when it begins to reach purely vertical or purely horizontal trajectories.


The picture is to show how it looks like to draw without interpolation from Paint.

_That's a Zowie AM (with a dirty lens) on the 1150 CPI setting, 500Hz and without the secondary lens piece. The mouse pad is a red Hien._


----------



## qsxcv

link to that program?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> link to that program?


*You should check to see if it's safe before using.*

http://chomikuj.pl/Manunu/Programy/VMouseBench+v0.0.7a,2731557119.zip


----------



## altf4

(x)
 
Is that bad?


----------



## Melan

No. This is what happens when you move your mouse very slow.


----------



## altf4

NOW?
Might look stupid but even that fixes rattle, but same results in mousetester.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I'm going to try the Q tip trick soon, I pressed on the bottom plastic tilted thing (not sure what that's called) and it didn't move but I can see the wobble in my screen.

I contacted Logitech for RMA and looks like they are not doing an advanced replacement, have to send mine in then wait up to a week for it to arrive.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Okay. So swapping in the stock cable back inside my G303 seems to have fixed my spinning issues. My gripe is the braiding on this cable is quite tangled and pretty much ruined. Does anyone know a safe way to strip the sleeving? (Im incompetent T_T)


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> So swapping in the stock cable back inside my G303 seems to have fixed my spinning issues.


wat


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wat


It fixed this:



I still have the spinning bug from calibration.
Edit: I switched the cable with the DA 2013 cable a while back because the original stock cable was getting twisted and inflexible.


----------



## the1freeMan

Why do you use surface calibration on a mouse that has 1cd lod?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Why do you use surface calibration on a mouse that has 1cd lod?


The thing is I didn't. That recording was taken with calibration off.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It fixed this


really really doubt the cable affected this...

maybe you realigned the sensor/lens when changing the cable or something and that affected something


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> really really doubt the cable affected this...
> 
> maybe you realigned the sensor/lens when changing the cable or something and that affected something


Considering that it only started a few days ago and the fact that the lens is attached to the PCB, I highly doubt it was a result of misalignment.


----------



## qsxcv

or maybe you dislodged some dust

which cable doesn't matter at all... unless you're using a really really really bad cable


----------



## wareya

the cable could have had an intermittent short that messed with some weird interface mechanism and broke the firmware's logic


----------



## qsxcv

in that case the mcu would stop functioning/reboot; it makes no sense if it just spins since that means the mcu is still functional but the sensor is spitting out constant data

if anyone can capture the bug while running mousetester logging (v1.1 has a logging thing that doesn't require you to click to record data), that could provide some clues.


----------



## ALT F4

Can anyone describe how this mouse feels compared to the g400 or g502?

I'm looking for something lighter than the g502 and tired of the g400. I've used the deathadder, design felt good but quality didnt, especially the clicking. Read someone else post that the zowie fk1 clicks aren't that great, it looks nice though, if the clicks felt like the g400 I'd be happy.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Can anyone describe how this mouse feels compared to the g400 or g502?
> 
> I'm looking for something lighter than the g502 and tired of the g400. I've used the deathadder, design felt good but quality didnt, especially the clicking. Read someone else post that the zowie fk1 clicks aren't that great, it looks nice though, if the clicks felt like the g400 I'd be happy.


Check out this picture here:










This mouse here reminds me a bit of a cross between the two mice on the left, the Mico and Abyssus, with some strange edges added. On the far right, there's your G400 shape as a size comparison.

You need to talk some more about what you are searching for in a mouse with regards to its shape and your grip. This is important because this mouse here (G303) is like from a completely different planet compared to the mice you mentioned. It's for completely different people. Without you talking some more about what's going on with you, it just seems very strange that you'd like this one here after being happy with G400 and Deathadder shapes.


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Check out this picture here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This mouse here reminds me a bit of a cross between the two mice on the left, the Mico and Abyssus, with some strange edges added. On the far right, there's your G400 shape as a size comparison.
> 
> You need to talk some more about what you are searching for in a mouse with regards to its shape and your grip. This is important because this mouse here (G303) is like from a completely different planet compared to the mice you mentioned. It's for completely different people. Without you talking some more about what's going on with you, it just seems very strange that you'd like this one here after being happy with G400 and Deathadder shapes.


Thanks for the pic, your description gives me a good idea. I'm just looking for change








I tried adjusting to the g502 because I use the extra buttons for convenience, the change in shape from the g400 and other similar shapes felt nice, but the weight is unbearable. I'm interested in trying the g303's, curious about how the clicking feels with the lower actuation point.
I just learned about the Finalmouse 2015, if the g303 doesn't work I think I'm giving that one a shot.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Can anyone describe how this mouse feels compared to the g400 or g502?
> 
> I'm looking for something lighter than the g502 and tired of the g400. I've used the deathadder, design felt good but quality didnt, especially the clicking. Read someone else post that the zowie fk1 clicks aren't that great, it looks nice though, if the clicks felt like the g400 I'd be happy.


The clicks are far better than the G400S. They're softer and have a more pronounced tactile feel.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> the cable could have had an intermittent short that messed with some weird interface mechanism and broke the firmware's logic


Possibly since I did strip a part of the heatsink to move the stress relief a bit down in order to fit it inside the shell.

Anyways back to my original question:
Does anyone know an efficient and safe way to stripe the braided sleeving off a mouse cable?


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The clicks are far better than the G400S. They're softer and have a more pronounced tactile feel.


Picked one up today on my way home. I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying it, am I missing something or is the actuation point for clicking just a marketing line? The clicks are solid but doesn't feel like it's traveling any less distance and feels like it requires the same force as the g502.

Decided to forget the finalmouse as the dpi isn't adjustable, might have found my new daily driver.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Picked one up today on my way home. I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying it, am I missing something or is the actuation point for clicking just a marketing line? The clicks are solid but doesn't feel like it's traveling any less distance and feels like it requires the same force as the g502.
> 
> Decided to forget the finalmouse as the dpi isn't adjustable, might have found my new daily driver.


I think it's less distance compared to some devices like the deathadder but that might also just be a shell thing


----------



## Mych

The thing about the clicks is that they are very tactile and consistent. The spring system should be implemented into every mouse, imo.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Considering buying a G303 after selling my G402/Steelseries rival....
I'm kinda worried about the shape because of the diamond model. How would it compare to the FK1???
My hands are 16cm and I do a hybird claw/palm


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Picked one up today on my way home. I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying it, am I missing something or is the actuation point for clicking just a marketing line? The clicks are solid but doesn't feel like it's traveling any less distance and feels like it requires the same force as the g502.
> 
> Decided to forget the finalmouse as the dpi isn't adjustable, might have found my new daily driver.


Actuation point is the same I think. Whats different is how fast you can click/spam the button. It resets alot faster than other mice.


----------



## qsxcv

basically what the spring does is allows the button shell to be very flimsy, so that clicks aren't much stiffer than how the omron switches themselves are, but without the buttons being loose like on the wmo


----------



## CorruptBE

Well it does give a big benefit in burst oriented games imo. Much more control over bursts past the 1st one that leaves the barrel.


----------



## qsxcv

and for csgo aka spam tec9 and hold w


----------



## aayman_farzand

@Conceptx Your paint test looks normal in the fixed one right?

I received a PM from CPate confirming that this issue is being tested for after production, so hopefully any replacements we get from now will be risk free.

I still haven't received the mail from Logitech with the RMA form and return label.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Can anyone describe how this mouse feels compared to the g400 or g502?
> 
> I'm looking for something lighter than the g502 and tired of the g400. I've used the deathadder, design felt good but quality didnt, especially the clicking. Read someone else post that the zowie fk1 clicks aren't that great, it looks nice though, if the clicks felt like the g400 I'd be happy.


G402?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> and for csgo aka spam tec9 and hold w


----------



## AuraDesruu

anyone with the mouse know its dimensions?
Ino's Video review said it was 150mm?
the logitech site says 115


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> anyone with the mouse know its dimensions?
> Ino's Video review said it was 150mm?
> the logitech site says 115


115


----------



## walsall09

General mouse question, i have this mouse i will ask
should i have my wrist actually on my mousepad, i have looked at pro csgo players such as shroud and i cant really tell, im also always changing how i hold the mouse too

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJKuoZlXAAA6ahp.jpg


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walsall09*
> 
> General mouse question, i have this mouse i will ask
> should i have my wrist actually on my mousepad, i have looked at pro csgo players such as shroud and i cant really tell, im also always changing how i hold the mouse too
> 
> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJKuoZlXAAA6ahp.jpg


Personal preference. Just do what you feel is comfortable.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walsall09*
> 
> General mouse question, i have this mouse i will ask
> should i have my wrist actually on my mousepad, i have looked at pro csgo players such as shroud and i cant really tell, im also always changing how i hold the mouse too
> 
> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJKuoZlXAAA6ahp.jpg


I feel the actual wrist resting on something is a bit dangerous because of pressure being put on that channel for the nerves that's in the wrist, but the flesh that's part of the palm resting on the mousepad is fine. The mouse is so short that (unless you have small hands) you can have the palm resting on the mousepad, and if you keep your wrist still somewhat straight, it won't really press onto the mousepad.

In that photo, it's a bit unclear what he does exactly with the palm and wrist. The forearm digging into the edge of the table seems a bit scary for the health.


----------



## Omega215d

Funny enough I find myself resting my palm or wrist on the mousemat with mice designed for palm usage while the shape of the G303 has been forcing me to use the mouse with my wrist or palm lifted off the mat. I did the same thing when I had the Logitech MX300 and Razer Diamondback.


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> Funny enough I find myself resting my palm or wrist on the mousemat with mice designed for palm usage while the shape of the G303 has been forcing me to use the mouse with my wrist or palm lifted off the mat. I did the same thing when I had the Logitech MX300 and Razer Diamondback.


What surprised me is how good the mouse feels with all different styles of grip. Only thing left for me is to try out that finalmouse and pick up an ie 3.0 to decide whether this g303 stays or not.


----------



## Omega215d

I had an MS IME 3.0 (original not Legends Edition) and it was really under appreciated at the time and I used the MX518 instead due to it fitting my hand better and preferred 800 DPI back in those days. If you can find one in good condition then it would be a worthwhile purchase.


----------



## Poopsticker

How do you know if you have a lens rattling issue, and if it's not just some other part of the mouse that is rattling?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> How do you know if you have a lens rattling issue, and if it's not just some other part of the mouse that is rattling?


Check out these two posts and watch the videos:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/3240#post_24063451

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/3270#post_24069557

... especially the second one. Try the same with your mouse and see if you can move the lens a little with a toothpick or something.


----------



## TriviumKM

So my g303 has also developed the lens rattle issue just recently which is affecting tracking. I now get outliers in mouse tester, which i never used to get as i didn't have the lens rattle issue up until this point.

Going to wait a bit before i RMA to give Logitech some time to fix the issue so i don't receive another defective unit.

Anyone know if opening the mouse voids warranty? If not, i'll just open it and super glue the lens to the shell or something.


----------



## Melan

Of course it voids warranty... if they know that you did it.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Of course it voids warranty... if they know that you did it.


Right right. Knew it was a dumb question, but figured i'd ask anyway. I actually just pushed it in with a Q-tip like you did and it seems to have temporarily fixed also.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

If you open it make sure to paint the screw black because the paint does strip off when you unscrew/screw it too many times.


----------



## Melan

Remember to wear your "professional warranty voider" T-shirt too.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Try pushing lens in with q-tip. Worked for me.


If you shake the mouse, do you hear any sort of rattling whatsoever? The qtip fix, just made my rattling noise less quiet.


----------



## Melan

Push harder until screaming rattling stops.

Don't apply too much force though, try pushing different parts of the lens. Took me 2 tries and now it's completely fixed.

Edit: Please please please DONT push it with screwdriver or anything that can scratch/damage lens. I used q-tip for a reason here.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I pushed it in and did the paint test, looks normal now and I don't see a wobble on my desktop like I did before.

What I did was, I took one of those plastic things used to tie cables, stuffed it in then pushed using a small screwdriver. Did not hear a "snap" that locked it into place, but now the rattle is minimal.


----------



## qsxcv

did anyone have this issue with g502?


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Push harder until screaming rattling stops.
> 
> Don't apply too much force though, try pushing different parts of the lens. Took me 2 tries and now it's completely fixed.
> 
> Edit: Please please please DONT push it with screwdriver or anything that can scratch/damage lens. I used q-tip for a reason here.


I pushed it numerous times with a q tip, the rattle is now very quiet, although it still rattles. Does your's rattle at all when you shake it?


----------



## Melan

No.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> I pushed it numerous times with a q tip, the rattle is now very quiet, although it still rattles. Does your's rattle at all when you shake it?


It might be the rattle from the CPI change button. See if you still hear rattling while pushing down on that button.


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> I pushed it numerous times with a q tip, the rattle is now very quiet, although it still rattles. Does your's rattle at all when you shake it?


I'm going to keep an eye on this. Have less than a week with the mouse and I have to shake it with extreme force to get the mousewheel to even move/rattle a tiny bit. If I put my finger on the mousewheel then nothing.


----------



## qsxcv

managed to get 3366 to malfunction @ around 7-8m/s, using full diagonal of a black supermat\

images for future reference:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> @Conceptx Your paint test looks normal in the fixed one right?
> 
> I received a PM from CPate confirming that this issue is being tested for after production, so hopefully any replacements we get from now will be risk free.
> 
> I still haven't received the mail from Logitech with the RMA form and return label.


Yes, after the fix no more hooks or anything like that, its perfect like the g502 lines in the video.

Although there are something thats rattling still, but it's really quiet and you have to shake it mad.
I think thats the springs under the left/right mouse buttons


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It might be the rattle from the CPI change button. See if you still hear rattling while pushing down on that button.


Tried pushing down all the buttons while shaking. Still rattles. This is my second g303. A 3rd one is currently on the way from Amazon... Seems like Logitech is currently trying to fix these issues, is that right? If so should I just wait a bit and RMA? Not sure how many bad batches Amazon has...


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> Tried pushing down all the buttons while shaking. Still rattles. This is my second g303. A 3rd one is currently on the way from Amazon... Seems like Logitech is currently trying to fix these issues, is that right? If so should I just wait a bit and RMA? Not sure how many bad batches Amazon has...


even if i dont push any button, it doesn't rattle at all


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> even if i dont push any button, it doesn't rattle at all


What's the first 4 digits of the serial number? I'm starting to believe there are bad batches going around.


----------



## ajgo333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It might be the rattle from the CPI change button. See if you still hear rattling while pushing down on that button.


is it possible for the rattle to develop after some weeks of purchase.should i avoid g303 altogether and buy a g402 or if i buy g303 now can i hope for a perfect replacement from logitech if i ask for a replacement after some months if i develop this issue hoping that they would have fixed this issue by then

i want to buy a mouse right now and iam looking at g402 and g303. i need to decide fast.please reply quickly.thanks everyone


----------



## Omega215d

I've had mine for about 3 weeks now and have been gaming quite a bit (think 3+ hour sessions) and it's still feeling just as solid without any rattling to be heard. The first four of the S/N are 1512 and was purchased in the US at Best Buy. I bought another G303 with the S/N starting off with 1511 and found that the LMB had less resistance, scroll a bit loose and did exhibit slight rattling but nothing near the lens moved.


----------



## ajgo333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> I've had mine for about 3 weeks now and have been gaming quite a bit (think 3+ hour sessions) and it's still feeling just as solid without any rattling to be heard. The first four of the S/N are 1512 and was purchased in the US at Best Buy. I bought another G303 with the S/N starting off with 1511 and found that the LMB had less resistance, scroll a bit loose and did exhibit slight rattling but nothing near the lens moved.


so did u get the second one too at bestbuy

so is it safe to guess that even if something goes wrong i could replace it from logitech after 1 or 2 months hoping that they would have fixed it by then and have proper samples.

and just a random question but do you feel you are limited by the less number of buttons on g303


----------



## Omega215d

Both were purchased at Best Buy but I bought the 2nd one when it was on sale for $30 so I could compare build quality. Ended up returning the 2nd one and kept the 1st one which was newer (if the S/N was anything to go by). From what I have heard from people RMA'ing their mice that Logitech is pretty good and just ship out a mouse without asking for the old one back.

I don't feel limited by the amount of buttons on the G303. I used to care about extra mouse buttons for gaming but found that the extra, non standard buttons couldn't be mapped just by themselves and needed to be bound to a key in order for them to work (G502, G500). It was convenient having certain things within reach on the mouse but it wasn't drastic (sniper button on the G502 was bound to Mic key). I've also stopped changing the DPI during a game so I can do without those buttons as well (G502 is was in place of the num row for stuff like air support). Right now I'm playing a lot of CS GO, H1Z1 and single player games so the G303 is pretty much all I need.


----------



## ajgo333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> Both were purchased at Best Buy but I bought the 2nd one when it was on sale for $30 so I could compare build quality. Ended up returning the 2nd one and kept the 1st one which was newer (if the S/N was anything to go by). From what I have heard from people RMA'ing their mice that Logitech is pretty good and just ship out a mouse without asking for the old one back.
> 
> I don't feel limited by the amount of buttons on the G303. I used to care about extra mouse buttons for gaming but found that the extra, non standard buttons couldn't be mapped just by themselves and needed to be bound to a key in order for them to work (G502, G500). It was convenient having certain things within reach on the mouse but it wasn't drastic (sniper button on the G502 was bound to Mic key). I've also stopped changing the DPI during a game so I can do without those buttons as well (G502 is was in place of the num row for stuff like air support). Right now I'm playing a lot of CS GO, H1Z1 and single player games so the G303 is pretty much all I need.


so do you feel that g303 is better than g502 in ergonomics and usage considering its light weight???

and just to know do you feel that extra buttons on g402 compared to g303 would be really helpful to map the keyboard shortcuts for general use a programmer or would it be better to resort to your touch typing skills in that case

these are the deciding factor for me

thanks for your answers


----------



## aayman_farzand

Actually you shouldn't assume that they won't ask for the old one back. I'm in the middle of an RMA right now and they want it back before sending one out. Even requested an advance RMA with a hold on my card, wouldn't budge.


----------



## Omega215d

I'm a particular person and this really only applies to me. I find the G502 to be comfortable for office work but I tend to be really lazy with positioning of my wrist/ resting on the pad. The G303 to me is quite solid for something lighter than the G502 and my hand took to the shape quite well with my arm positioning being less lazy/ more correct, quite suitable for gaming. As for mapping to the buttons, again it's somewhat convenient but not so much. Again, this is my preference and have no idea how you would feel about such things.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Just did a paint test on mines and ...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## aayman_farzand

Not like that, hold mouse one and do swipes in paint. Look at the bumps that he got before, those came after he stopped moving the mouse and before he moved it a second time.


----------



## Cyro999

It happens when you do sharp movements and stops. I don't see the issue at all from either slow movements or a continuous movement, it only shows up during a sharp acceleration/decelleration and it's barely visible at the sens i use (~600-800dpi) but how bad the issue is probably varies sample to sample


----------



## Poopsticker

My 2nd G303 (1515), has rattle. Just received my 3rd G303 (1511) and it too, has rattling









Any idea when Logitech will fix this rattling issue? I've no idea when I should RMA (afraid of just getting another rattling one).

EDIT: 3rd G303 (1511) has basically no rattle after applying the q-tip method.









EDIT 2: Rattling comes and goes from time to time.







seems like i'll need to RMA sometime in the near future...


----------



## hasukka

Anyone having problems with the G303 mousefeet? They feel very inconsistent for me, hard to flick sometimes. That and the cable are the only negative points in my opinion.

Any advice on what mouseskates could I try applying instead of the default ones? Thought about MS IE 3.0 skates..


----------



## Omega215d

I'd return it if possible and if not then contact Logitech about it. Mine's gliding smoothly on the Razer Goliathus and Corsair MM200 (and also on a briefly owned Logitech G240).

Logitech also sells skates for the mouse I believe at $3 USD a set. If only they could be like Roccat and send a free set of skates (well to those in the US anyway as they don't have a US shop).

Another fix would be getting Mionix mouse tape which is also quite good to put on top of the current skates (did this with my Savu before getting a new set from Roccat).


----------



## ALT F4

Anyone using custom mouse feet or teflon tape with their g303? Been messing around with the g400 and starting to miss the mouse feet on it, amazing glide considering the huge shape and locations of the feet.


----------



## Melan

Get your self some hyperglides.


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Get your self some hyperglides.


I didn't see a g302/g303 model listed on their website, which were you referring to? I'm wondering if ordering teflon tape will be worth it since the mouses has such a small footprint


----------



## Melan

Contact them by email. They'll set you up with some custom made ones.


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Contact them by email. They'll set you up with some custom made ones.


Were you able to actually purchased custom g303 mouse skates from hyperglide? Saw the post below from almost ~4 months ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I had a talk with hyperglide. They are considering making some for G303 but popularity of this mouse is rather sad.


Easier to get your response instead of wait on hyperglide







Didn't think it was that unpopular, even the 2 closest stores didn't have one in stock when I went to buy it, 3rd store had 1 in stock hidden in the back behind a bunch of other models


----------



## Melan

Well, someone was able to order custom built glides from hyperglide. Contact them and ask. Last time I asked Mark, he said that they already have the machinery for 502 and 303 is on it's way.

They respond very fast, so you won't wait long.


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, someone was able to order custom built glides from hyperglide. Contact them and ask. Last time I asked Mark, he said that they already have the machinery for 502 and 303 is on it's way.
> 
> They respond very fast, so you won't wait long.


I'll contact them to get a definitive answer and post it here for us, ty


----------



## flowbreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Anyone having problems with the G303 mousefeet? They feel very inconsistent for me, hard to flick sometimes. That and the cable are the only negative points in my opinion.
> 
> Any advice on what mouseskates could I try applying instead of the default ones? Thought about MS IE 3.0 skates..


So this is my third G303. Finally found one without rattle, but the feet are kinda wavy. Doesn't look like anything caused by normal wear. Some kind of manufacturing defect. The glide on the two rattling ones were noticeably better than this one. I contacted them about it asking for a set of replacement feet and they are mailing me another mouse... lol.


----------



## boogdud

Yeah I had the same thing with the feet on a couple different G303s. They were all bubbled up, it made the mouse roll they were so bad. I ended up getting some feet from Takasta that made the mouse completely stable, felt like a different mouse after using the aftermarket feet.

Pretty poor QC on the feet on the new logitech mice it seems. Both the 502 and the 302/303 had similar problems with feet.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Did anyone ever compared the 303 with the 502?
I have the 502 for some days now and so far I like it but the feet could be better, I guess they are made for durability and not good gliding, that leads to the strange feeling that the 502 is much heavier than my old DA BE but the 502 is just 10g heavier(without the bottom plate) so I think the feet let the 502 feel heavier and harder to move.

Today got the 303 and although it seems to glide better, both side feet have a dent, that is really bad QC.
That the 303 glides better is surely partially because its around 25-26g lighter(compared to a 502 without bottom plate) but I wonder if the position and shape of the feet might also help a bit, the shape is rather uniform and the position on the bottom of this mouse is also as good as can be.
I don't get why the feet on the 502 were done so uneven and misplaced as I see no sense in a big foot in front with a tiny appendix besides it, a small foot at the back, just one foot on the thumbs side and not sure if it's worth to mention those around the sensor, all this and their strange shape also don't help.

Just to clarify, we can expect hyperglides for the 502?


----------



## Omega215d

I find that the G303 glides a bit better than the G502 probably due to the weight and shell what with the extended lip and all. I had no problem gaming with the G502 running on a Razer Goliathus Speed but felt some drag compared to the Roccat Savu and now G303. Not much but a bit noticeable. The G502 is now my office mouse.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

A bit too much as office mouse isn't it?
I thought about keeping the 303 as office mouse, alone the rather silent mouse wheel would be good when going through longer documents or browsing webpages and when using it all day long the smaller weight might also come handy.
At least both give me a much better feeling than my DA(killed by double click) and the DA BE(killed by cheap wiring that broke), somehow feels I had the wrong mouse for years and the old MS IntelliMouse Explorer I had before the DAs was also not noteworthy.


----------



## Derp

The G303 is $36 at Amazon right now. That's nearly half MSRP.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> A bit too much as office mouse isn't it?
> I thought about keeping the 303 as office mouse, alone the rather silent mouse wheel would be good when going through longer documents or browsing webpages and when using it all day long the smaller weight might also come handy.
> At least both give me a much better feeling than my DA(killed by double click) and the DA BE(killed by cheap wiring that broke), somehow feels I had the wrong mouse for years and the old MS IntelliMouse Explorer I had before the DAs was also not noteworthy.


It was fine for gaming but my G500 was pretty much dead and needed to be replaced with another mouse that had free scroll and side scrolling.


----------



## youthagainst

I went into a Best Buy store and opened different G303 units to try and find one that doesn't rattle, but they all seem to, at least slightly. Is ANY bit of rattle normal, or does even a tiny click when shaking indicate that the mouse will get worse with time?


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> I went into a Best Buy store and opened different G303 units to try and find one that doesn't rattle, but they all seem to, at least slightly. Is ANY bit of rattle normal, or does even a tiny click when shaking indicate that the mouse will get worse with time?


If I shake my G303 side to side there is no rattle but if I shake it top to bottom there is a rattle from the left and right mouse buttons. I can reproduce the sound by lifting and releasing on the pointed edges of the buttons. I bought the mouse shortly after release so not sure if this is the sound you are hearing or the product of lower build quality if there has been any changes.


----------



## youthagainst

delete


----------



## youthagainst

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> If I shake my G303 side to side there is no rattle but if I shake it top to bottom there is a rattle from the left and right mouse buttons. I can reproduce the sound by lifting and releasing on the pointed edges of the buttons. I bought the mouse shortly after release so not sure if this is the sound you are hearing or the product of lower build quality if there has been any changes.


If you press down all the buttons does it still make the slight rattle? Any issues with the mouse at all like others have said? The one I bought still makes the tiny click/rattle when shaking side to side even with all buttons pressed.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> I went into a Best Buy store and opened different G303 units to try and find one that doesn't rattle, but they all seem to, at least slightly. Is ANY bit of rattle normal, or does even a tiny click when shaking indicate that the mouse will get worse with time?


Mine has zero rattle, my guess would be theres defected batches


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> If you press down all the buttons does it still make the slight rattle? Any issues with the mouse at all like others have said? The one I bought still makes the tiny click/rattle when shaking side to side even with all buttons pressed.


If I move the mouse cord side to side alone, that is all I hear when doing as you suggested.


----------



## youthagainst

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> If I move the mouse cord side to side alone, that is all I hear when doing as you suggested.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Mine has zero rattle, my guess would be theres defected batches


Ok thank you so much for the feedback. I think I'll try another store and see if the ones in there rattle as well. Yes it appears to be a batch issue I guess.


----------



## VagueRant

Dont think I clearly stated it but the sound I hear when moving the cord is coming from the plastic going into the mouse but it is very faint.


----------



## youthagainst

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> Dont think I clearly stated it but the sound I hear when moving the cord is coming from the plastic going into the mouse but it is very faint.


Even when I hold the cord against the mouse when shaking so that the cord isn't moving separately from the mouse, I still hear a very faint click click click sound.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> Even when I hold the cord against the mouse when shaking so that the cord isn't moving separately from the mouse, I still hear a very faint click click click sound.


Currently watching the Lollapalooza streams but with my ear really near I hear nothing when holding everything together and moving it briskly.


----------



## youthagainst

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> Currently watching the Lollapalooza streams but with my ear really near I hear nothing when holding everything together and moving it briskly.


I repped you for all your help. Thank you.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youthagainst*
> 
> Even when I hold the cord against the mouse when shaking so that the cord isn't moving separately from the mouse, I still hear a very faint click click click sound.


If anything, see if you can find a G303 with the serial numbers starting with 1512. The ones I got with 1511 and 1513 had a slight rattle along with either a loose wheel or a left click with slightly less resistance.

I'd hope Logitech takes note and find the source of the QC issues.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

I hear rattle too,I can hear it even with all buttons pressed and light movements from side to side.
What can be loose there?
Where can I find the serial?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> I hear rattle too,I can hear it even with all buttons pressed and light movements from side to side.
> What can be loose there?
> Where can I find the serial?


Serial number should be bottom of the box? Mine starts with 1445. No rattle.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Thanks, I got 1510.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> I hear rattle too,I can hear it even with all buttons pressed and light movements from side to side.
> What can be loose there?
> Where can I find the serial?


Check to see if the sensor's lens is moving around on the bottom. Try to push it around with something that (hopefully) won't scratch it like a wooden toothpick. On my G303, the lens was clearly moving around.

That lens was the only source of rattle on my G303 other than the DPI cycle button.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Confirmed, was the last part I thought would rattle.


----------



## argentum

1512, no rattle.


----------



## wonderboysam

1509 - no rat !


----------



## deepor

1512 over here, and the lens was moving around.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I got mine at release, 1507 and it wasn't rattling at first, developed it two months after.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> 1509 - no rat !


Has just started rattling - about 2 months after purchase

I'm also getting bad tracking, similar to what about people have said hard to make small adjustments, I even struggle to click swiftly in windows. Dont suppose anyone has a solution/cure for me?


----------



## TriviumKM

1509:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Has just started rattling - about 2 months after purchase
> 
> I'm also getting bad tracking, similar to what about people have said hard to make small adjustments, I even struggle to click swiftly in windows. Dont suppose anyone has a solution/cure for me?


Do what Melan told me to do: push the lens gently back in place with a q-tip; worked for me.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Q Tip fix seems to be working for everyone.

I have a hard pad so I'm sure I'll nudge out whatever replacement I get soon. I'll just resort to Q Tip and might consider another RMA if it is confirmed 100% fixed at production level.


----------



## deepor

Pushing on it didn't work for me. I opened it up to fix it.

You need to have a very small size screwdriver (some sort of cross shape) like what you'd use when working on a smartphone. The screws are under the front and back feet. I think working carefully it's possible to get the feet off without breaking them, and their glue still works to put them back on later.

The plastic of the lens has some sort of grooves that fit into grooves of the bottom part of the mouse shell around the hole. I put a piece of thin scotch tape over those grooves on the inside of the bottom shell surrounding the sensor's hole and cut out the middle. The lens then does not move around anymore after reassembly of the mouse.

I think all of that is reversible, except some of the screws are painted black, and that black paint chips away when you work on those screws. That's the only thing that won't stay pristine after working on the mouse. Everything else on the inside of the mouse is designed great so that you won't break anything if working slowly and being careful. There's nothing just snapped into place and it's instead all kept together with screws, so there's no place where force is required to open something.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Thankfully after opening mine up it didn't start rattling, and I shaved 4 grams off the mouse by removing the DPI button. Not too bad except for the feet...

I do like how Logitech has "G303 Mouse Feet" listed on their site as purchasable, but whenever I try and add it to a cart to purchase it, it will just say my shopping cart is empty.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I shaved 4 grams off the mouse by removing the DPI button


wat
it's that heavy? i thought that piece is like 2g at most


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wat
> it's that heavy? i thought that piece is like 2g at most


Might need to recalibrate my scale if that's the case. Also removed the white piece in the upper shell.

Edit: Flashes between 2.5-3g for me now. So weird. Needs some calibration I guess.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Doesn't the dpi button have that light shaft thingy too?


----------



## ronal

I just received my G303 and I'm liking so far. Anyone know what the default dpi settings are w/o installing the drivers.


----------



## Melan

400, 800 (default at plug in), 1600, 3200 @ 1khz polling.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Is anyone having issues with LOD gradually getting lower over time? Mines low enough that I have to press on the mouse to get it to track properly.


----------



## Melan

Nope. Your pad could be wearing out, or maybe some crap stuck on lens.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Nope. Your pad could be wearing out, or maybe some crap stuck on lens.


I doubt its my pad as I tried it on both of my Hiros (one new, one used) and its the same for both. I tried cleaning the lens with 70% rubbing alcohol which had no effect whatsoever.


----------



## Melan

Weird. Maybe it's time to take it apart and see what's up, or RMA.

Maybe 303 is trying to force you use surface calibration


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Weird. Maybe it's time to take it apart and see what's up


Already took it apart 20+ times (enough times that I had to replace the screws because I stripped them) and RMA is obviously out of the question. I guess its time to wait for Finalmouse Ambi








I just need this mouse to be usable until then because its my only functional fingertip grip mouse atm


----------



## kv2004

i prefer
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> If you want a good mose DO NOT BUY FINALMOUSE. It is a bad mouse with a marketing campaign that seems to work well. If you want a raw 3310 buy a roccat kone pure military or one of the mionix mice with the 3310.


I own both KPM and FM2015SE, I would say they are both good mouse.


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Already took it apart 20+ times (enough times that I had to replace the screws because I stripped them) and RMA is obviously out of the question. I guess its time to wait for Finalmouse Ambi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just need this mouse to be usable until then because its my only functional fingertip grip mouse atm


Weren't you the one who pushed the lens up with q-tip? Maybe thats the reason?


----------



## Melan

No, it was me.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Plenty of other people who pushed the lens with a Q-tip.
However, he is the only person who reported a problem.
probably faulty


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Plenty of other people who pushed the lens with a Q-tip.
> However, he is the only person who reported a problem.
> probably faulty


I tried the q-tip thing and I beleive it helped a little but I am still unhappy with it. I don't know if it is the lens or that i simply dont like the tracking.


----------



## AuraDesruu

rma it if you think it has a problem


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Plenty of other people who pushed the lens with a Q-tip.
> However, he is the only person who reported a problem.
> probably faulty


Probably is lol. Im not sure if I should buy it again since its so cheap atm or just wait for FM Ambi


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Probably is lol. Im not sure if I should buy it again since its so cheap atm or just wait for FM Ambi


Both companies offer a great warranty length.
If you really liked the G303, you should get it while its 35 dollars.
I still dont think logitech fixed the rattling because I got one this month and it rattles a little. Perhaps when they do fix the rattling you could rma it.


----------



## Trippy

Just got the 303 yesterday, I love the sensor it's sex. The shape I'm kind of on the fence about but it's use able. Wondering what the most stable polling rate is and what everyone is using?


----------



## qsxcv

1000 is best. if not, it's because of your computer


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I decided to take the mouse skates off my mouse and it seems to help with my LOD issue a little


----------



## Melan

Next time LOD lowers again, sand down bottom shell.


----------



## Cyro999

Is there still no way to raise LOD? I get that some people like low LOD, but it's REALLY low. I've never had a mouse jump or malfunction like this because of LOD when most of the mouse feet are still in physical contact with the pad, and it's not like i have a bad mousepad for it. For an otherwise perfect sensor it's annoying


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Next time LOD lowers again, sand down bottom shell.


Time to take the PCB out and play with PCB only


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Time to take the PCB out and play with PCB only


In all seriousness I will just switch to my WMO at that point.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I decided to take the mouse skates off my mouse and it seems to help with my LOD issue a little


Too low LOD? You using Surface Calibration or what? My G303 has a quite high LOD compared to Zowie mice for example. Close to G100s LOD.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Too low LOD? You using Surface Calibration or what? My G303 has a quite high LOD compared to Zowie mice for example. Close to G100s LOD.


I have callibration set to default. Its low enough that I have to physically press down on the mouse for it to track properly with the skates on.


----------



## Omega215d

I wonder if CPate still works for Logitech and is reading this board. Logitech should be made aware of a possible problem.


----------



## dmbr

Sure would like a surface calibration fix....


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Too low LOD? You using Surface Calibration or what? My G303 has a quite high LOD compared to Zowie mice for example. Close to G100s LOD.


I'm not using surface calibration and have issues too~ I have a clean qck+ (black cloth) and when swiping, the left side of my mouse sometimes lifts up a bit which stops the tracking dead suddenly. It barely has to lift up, lowest LOD i've used by a mile


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Same here. Even with callibration off my cursor will either spin or just plain stop tracking if I even tilt it slightly. Even with no mouse skates the LOD is too low.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Next time LOD lowers again, sand down bottom shell.


This might actually work.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Tracks at 1 cd for me on a taito, stops tracking at 2. Using a 2mm tall jumper header as a measure, it won't track at that height either.


----------



## wareya

3310s stop tracking at ~0.7 CDs on my artscow mousepad. My DA 3.5g stops tracking at just under 2 CDs. I don't understand why anyone thinks insanely low LODs are a good idea. Low LOD is good, yes, but if my mouse stops tracking just because I put pressure on part of my mouse and part of it rises by a small fraction of a millimeter, there's a problem with the LOD.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Same here. Even with callibration off my cursor will either spin or just plain stop tracking if I even tilt it slightly. Even with no mouse skates the LOD is too low.
> This might actually work.


the spinning cursor is a bug with surface calibration. Turn it off.


----------



## qsxcv

didnt someone get it even with surface calibration off?


----------



## TriviumKM

Zenith Phantasm did, but i believe he said he also replaced his cord twice and opened the mouse numerous times, something could've just messed up due to all of this.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Somehow stripped the screws too, which is just beyond me.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Somehow stripped the screws too, which is just beyond me.


Ive opened it enough times that I can probably do it blindfolded lol.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

This is probably a stupid LOD fix but I tried doing calibration/surface tuning/whatever you want to call it with the "tape mod". After I took the tape off it seems that it raises a LOD a little bit more than default.


----------



## ronal

After two days of playing with the G303 in CSGO I gave up and went back to my DA2013. I was having problem with accuracy with the Rifles during spray downs and one taps to the head. After finally trying the 3366 sensor I don't get why everyone is raving over it.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> After two days of playing with the G303 in CSGO I gave up and went back to my DA2013. I was having problem with accuracy with the Rifles during spray downs and one taps to the head. After finally trying the 3366 sensor I don't get why everyone is raving over it.


The shape is the problem, at least that's what it was for me.


----------



## Mych

Yep, with better shape/weight Logitech's 3366 mice perform quite beautifully, although personally I am better at noticing differences in click latency/feeling than sensor performance. Any good implementation of 3090/3310/3988/AM010 works for me, too.


----------



## LewisASTL

Consider to waste a lot of time to get familiar with its shape. I needed over one month to regain my usual dexterity with g302
Then i went to Rog sica.
Although not for the shape itself


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

-3366
-User adjustable DPI
-No sleep state
-Kinzu shape
-G302/303 metal spring tensioned buttons
-Low click latency
-Omrons on every switch
-60g weight
-Hyperglide skates
Im still dreaming


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LewisASTL*
> 
> Consider to waste a lot of time to get familiar with its shape. I needed over one month to regain my usual dexterity with g302
> Then i went to Rog sica.
> Although not for the shape itself


Hah just got a sica myself, the build quality felt so awful coming from the g302/g303 I have to sent it back!







(Also I fixed my g303 problems just by removing the skates)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The best part about my sica is I intentionally removed the cable while flashing the firmware. Several times.

It's still alive and working. God dammit.


----------



## qsxcv

...why would you do that?

btw which mouse is your avatar from?


----------



## LewisASTL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> -3366
> -User adjustable DPI
> -No sleep state
> -Kinzu shape
> -G302/303 metal spring tensioned buttons
> -Low click latency
> -Omrons on every switch
> -60g weight
> -Hyperglide skates
> Im still dreaming


and an alps scroll


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LewisASTL*
> 
> and an alps scroll


Yes I forgot about it.


----------



## hasukka

Anyone experiencing weird mousefeel on W10 with G303? Feels very much different to W8.1, like sometimes the movement is extremely smooth and laggy, other times very fluid and responsive.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Anyone experiencing weird mousefeel on W10 with G303? Feels very much different to W8.1, like sometimes the movement is extremely smooth and laggy, other times very fluid and responsive.


Think its just the OS dude


----------



## hasukka

Definitely is the OS, just looking for any fixes for it. Seems its 50/50 with people experiencing weird pointer feel or not.


----------



## wonderboysam

Yea I've tried it twice now, as I'm not totally happy with win 7s default mouse, my guess is the people that say theres no difference are testing in game with rawinput on


----------



## hasukka

Funny thing is I have rawinput on. However rawinput doesn't deal with input lag necessarily if I am correct.


----------



## detto87

G303 on Windows 10 here. No problems and exact same feel as in Windows 7 before.
I turned off almost anything that's new in Windows 10 though from Cortana to the start menu to the many many sniffing tools inside the OS. Also important to check that updates are not downloaded via P2P.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Anyone experiencing weird mousefeel on W10 with G303? Feels very much different to W8.1, like sometimes the movement is extremely smooth and laggy, other times very fluid and responsive.


Did you do only the upgrade or did you do a clean install?


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Did you do only the upgrade or did you do a clean install?


Upgrade only.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Upgrade only.


Then I suggest that you do a clean install. Sometimes upgrading windows version messes the weirdest of stuff up.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Is there a way to reset the onboard memory on the G303?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I wasn't going to take apart my g303 again to further ruin the skates(oh god they are even worse now) and gamble on creating the rattle issue. Finally got the rattle issue. Q Tip fix and it was good again. However, now I am paranoid about it.

Posting in this thread instead since it's G302 VS G303 this time.
Quote:


> We realize there is better method to test button delay but as long as differences are about +/- 5ms we accept it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Frankly speaking even shorter method is still too much time consuming considering the fact we do all these reviews kinda voluntary and we lose enough time on them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . - test-gear.pl


Took *4 minutes* to put this together:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







A.G302
B:G303


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Yup they are *THAT* close. I really should buy a spare G303 at this point.


----------



## aayman_farzand

My replacement finally came. No rattle but I'm guessing it will develop that at some point especially since i have a hard pad.

Serial starts with 1512.


----------



## boGardoN

I got one 08/08 (forgot to check S/N) and it rattled. RMA'd and got another one 08/13 (S/N starts with 1509) which still rattles. What's annoying is the second one came in a box that was obviously opened before. Probably got someone else's RMA? Going to give RMA one more chance. If no good I'll just wait for this to be fixed or another 3366 mouse!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Posting in this thread instead since it's G302 VS G303 this time.
> Took *4 minutes* to put this together:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A.G302
> B:G303
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup they are *THAT* close. I really should buy a spare G303 at this point.


The picture is too blurry to see the results


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The picture is too blurry to see the results


right click picture, open in new tab, click on picture to zoom


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> My replacement finally came. No rattle but I'm guessing it will develop that at some point especially since i have a hard pad.
> 
> Serial starts with 1512.


Mine starts with 1510, there's a bit of rattle but no jitter issues like that other guy posted on YT


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Still too blurry x_x


----------



## ranseed

youre not doing it right if it's blurry.
http://cdn.overclock.net/3/3c/3cda1efc_g302avsg303b.jpeg

click it, its perfectly readable


----------



## aayman_farzand

Click on the picture then click on Original, it will open the image separately and you can zoom in.


----------



## wits

I just got a G303 a couple of days ago, and it seems to have acceleration when I test it in-game. More interestingly, the acceleration I experience seems to depend on the mousepad I'm using. Is this something normal, or do I have a defective unit? My G400s doesn't seem to suffer from this problem


----------



## SmashTV

Is it standard the program rounds to x.9ms so much? Maybe someone can write something better.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

a4tech opened it up recently:
http://www.bloody.com/KeyResponse_Code.zip

It's hard to say really, I was going to retest it with different versions anyway.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wits*
> 
> I just got a G303 a couple of days ago, and it seems to have acceleration when I test it in-game. More interestingly, the acceleration I experience seems to depend on the mousepad I'm using. Is this something normal, or do I have a defective unit? My G400s doesn't seem to suffer from this problem


Test with the calibration on default and then with it calibrated to the surfaces causing problems. Also check and make sure you didn't get a G303 with a loose lens. My G303 was excellent when it came to speed related variance.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

A.G302 vs B.G303

Mouseshootingtest 1.6


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Keyresponsepk:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







That's what the other versions show.


----------



## nyshak

So, I got one









The performance is really good, but I've noticed that the lense is rattling a little bit on my unit - just as many more have reported here. SN starts with 1507.

Since I do not have jitter in paint, and the performance ingame is excellent, I am reluctant to open up the mouse and fix the lense. This will ruin the mouse feet for sure and I don't have replacements yet. What should I be looking out for? I mean, if the lense rattles does this show in a way I haven't checked yet or am I just lucky?

For the qtip-method mentioned in this thread: I poked at the lense with one for a bit...didn't help so I guess I need specific instructions to tell me where to apply pressure and how much


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Yeah local place only has models with s/n starting with 1512. Which is less than the one I currently have(1513). Still, it *DID NOT RATTLE* until I opened it up and reseated the pcb several times doing tests with it. Ever since I did a weight reduction on it and the qtip fix again, it hasn't been rattling.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Pushing on it didn't work for me. I opened it up to fix it.
> 
> You need to have a very small size screwdriver (some sort of cross shape) like what you'd use when working on a smartphone. The screws are under the front and back feet. I think working carefully it's possible to get the feet off without breaking them, and their glue still works to put them back on later.
> 
> The plastic of the lens has some sort of grooves that fit into grooves of the bottom part of the mouse shell around the hole. I put a piece of thin scotch tape over those grooves on the inside of the bottom shell surrounding the sensor's hole and cut out the middle. The lens then does not move around anymore after reassembly of the mouse.
> 
> I think all of that is reversible, except some of the screws are painted black, and that black paint chips away when you work on those screws. That's the only thing that won't stay pristine after working on the mouse. Everything else on the inside of the mouse is designed great so that you won't break anything if working slowly and being careful. There's nothing just snapped into place and it's instead all kept together with screws, so there's no place where force is required to open something.


Just got annoyed enough to do something similar. Some cheapo double sided tape in around the lens edges. Dead silence now. For a second I thought I screwed something up, then remembered the mouse feet are in godawful shape.

edit: imo self explanatory pics


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Yeah local place only has models with s/n starting with 1512. Which is less than the one I currently have(1513). Still, it *DID NOT RATTLE* until I opened it up and reseated the pcb several times doing tests with it. Ever since I did a weight reduction on it and the qtip fix again, it hasn't been rattling.


The qtip fix works how exactly? I can poke at the lense from below all I want, it changes nothing.


----------



## boGardoN

Gave up on amazon and got one from newegg instead. Serial starts with 1510. Very very faint rattling in the beginning, disappeared after maybe 30 minutes of usage.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> The qtip fix works how exactly? I can poke at the lense from below all I want, it changes nothing.


Gotta push it in.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Gotta push it in.


Hm, no does nothing. Have to get a pair of new feet to I can open it up and fix it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> Hm, no does nothing. Have to get a pair of new feet to I can open it up and fix it.


Put it in. Push up and push towards the rear of the mouse. Like you are trying to lodge the lens in there. Go hard.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

I love my G302 is the G303 the exact same size and weight ? What else is different? My only complaint about the 302 is I would like more specific DPI steps. 960 DPI is what I use but 1040 is too fast for me. Id like something around 1000 would be perfect.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Put it in. Push up and push towards the rear of the mouse. Like you are trying to lodge the lens in there. Go hard.


Worked for like 2min, then started rattling again. I don't know, but it feels like this is going to damage something if I keep trying. Why won't this stupid Logitech store let me shop ne mouse feet. Basket always comes up empty. But G402 feet i can buy. Grrrr.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> Why won't this stupid Logitech store let me shop ne mouse feet. Basket always comes up empty.


This. Logitech fix your online shop pls.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Control pads? pfffftttt I'll just use the holes I drilled into the mouse feet as extra resistance.


----------



## ENZOxWOLF

After returning my G303, I finally got the best fingertip grip mouse!
I previously tried Ninox Aurora, Deathader, Abyssus, Avior 7000, SS Rival, G100s, G302, G303. EVGA X5 beats them all!
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3U3NEJ1LUTG1K/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00SV735GU


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENZOxWOLF*
> 
> After returning my G303, I finally got the best fingertip grip mouse!
> I previously tried Ninox Aurora, Deathader, Abyssus, Avior 7000, SS Rival, G100s, G302, G303. EVGA X5 beats them all!
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R3U3NEJ1LUTG1K/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00SV735GU


Doesn't it have click latency?


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> This. Logitech fix your online shop pls.


Hm, it works if I try and order something else, like G402 mouse feet. So maybe the G303 ones are just out of stock and the shop doesn't show that?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Ugh my LOD issue came back. Time to toss this into the bin and go back to my G302


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

EDIT: nvm loose lens cover lol


----------



## TriviumKM

My lens keeps coming loose on my g303 every few days; annoying as hell. Just waiting until i hear word that Logitech fixes the issue then i'll RMA asap.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Doesn't it have click latency?


completely awful cable as well
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> My lens keeps coming loose on my g303 every few days; annoying as hell. Just waiting until i hear word that Logitech fixes the issue then i'll RMA asap.


Me too. No use RMAing, not having a good mouse for weeks (and having to adjust to another one) just to get another g303 back that breaks in that way again


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Amusingly when I picked up another mouse today, they had a g303 display model. It didn't rattle. It really doesn't mean anything, but I found that amusingly odd. Of course they had no actual g303's in stock to purchase.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Amusingly when I picked up another mouse today, they had a g303 display model. It didn't rattle. It really doesn't mean anything, but I found that amusingly odd. Of course they had no actual g303's in stock to purchase.


I wonder why?!? G303 recall maybe









Anyways I think Im going to use my WMO until the FM Ambi arrives. G302 isn't doing well for my hand ;w;


----------



## Derp

Maybe this is why the mouse has been $39.99 for so long? I think you guys are taking this issue well. Considering how they overbuilt the shell twice over I find it crazy how this problem exists on this mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Maybe this is why the mouse has been $39.99 for so long? I think you guys are taking this issue well. Considering how they overbuilt the shell twice over I find it crazy how this problem exists on this mouse.


Im surprised they havent used a new shell. They would have made so much $$ if they did


----------



## Omega215d

I lucked out in getting the mouse for $30 and no rattling. Of course time will tell if it develops with further use. I do hope CPate or someone from Logitech is reading this and reports back. It would be nice for those that do have the problem some reassurance of their replacement being a bit more solid.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> G633 Artemis Spectrum RGB 7.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset added
> 
> Improved the Dolby 7.1 Surround Sound Driver
> 
> Added ability to disable device start up effect in settings (like the rainbow wave/patter on the G910)
> 
> *Firmware update for G303: RGB synchronization added. FIxed tracking issue*
> 
> Firmware update for G910: Improves color effect animations. Expands game mode feature.
> 
> Firmware update for G502: Fixed a tracking issue.
> 
> Firmware update for G633: Improves equalizer settings to improve sound during gameplay.
> 
> Color sync added to G303, G633 and G910. Make all your colors match or your breathing go at the same time!
> 
> Added game mode to G910.


Upcoming patch notes.


----------



## 7onoff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Upcoming patch notes.


Source?


----------



## aayman_farzand

It was posted on reddit then the thread was deleted.


----------



## AuraDesruu

What was the tracking issue?


----------



## qsxcv

maybe the spinning bug? ill hook up my scope today and tomorrow and check to see if the srom changed for the g303.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> maybe the spinning bug? ill hook up my scope today and tomorrow and check to see if the srom changed for the g303.


Do you know if the G502 had the same issue? G303 had issues with surface tuning but not sure if the G502 did as well. The G502 has the same fix listed.

My RMA'd G303 doesn't seem to have any issue with surface tuning on. Using it that way for two weeks, no rattle or tracking issue...yet.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Do you know if the G502 had the same issue? G303 had issues with surface tuning but not sure if the G502 did as well. The G502 has the same fix listed.
> 
> My RMA'd G303 doesn't seem to have any issue with surface tuning on. Using it that way for two weeks, no rattle or tracking issue...yet.


The G502 had the same issue, yes. I'll DM a little in CSGO to see if it spazzes out my G303.

Edit: they fixed it (i guess, nothing happened in 4h)


----------



## qsxcv

what the hell
g303 has different srom from g502

2nd byte (version) is 0x08 instead of the g502's 0x07: http://pastebin.com/9tXC0XhF)

knew i should have checked it earlier

i'll install the update next and see if there's another change
edit: oh... they didn't release the update yet.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Upcoming patch notes.


Source?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Looks like I will reinstate my G303 soon. Rip WMO. Threw it against a wall today and it doesnt work anymore :c


----------



## povohat

Wow RMA it that's unacceptable


----------



## wareya

lol


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

fu


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Does the G303 comfortably fit a 17cm long by 8cm wide hand?
> 
> I'm heavily considering a G303 because my ZowieFK13 needs replacing, and I've heard there's far less click latency on the G303. For the record I use a fingertip grip on the FK13.


It would work but the mouse is rather dense.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Does the G303 comfortably fit a 17cm long by 8cm wide hand?
> 
> I'm heavily considering a G303 because my ZowieFK13 needs replacing, and I've heard there's far less click latency on the G303. For the record I use a fingertip grip on the FK13.


I have 17ish cm long , 10 cm wide, I love the shape as a claw grip.

Fingertip grip is possible (I guess?), but I never used it so it felt awkward, but as a heads up, I hate to fingertip every mouse, too wobbly feel for me. At least I can grip it in a way that it doesn't touch my palm.

And yeah, the response time of the mouse buttons is pretty damn good, so is the feel most importantly (I didn't really have a negative drawback on the FK, but it was comparatively high).


----------



## vanir1337

Alright, ordered one. Quite unsure about the shape, but I'll see if I can get used to it or not.


----------



## Melan

You still have the right to return the product within a week or so. Don't worry.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You still have the right to return the product within a week or so. Don't worry.


Bought it used.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The firmware update they released today fixed my LOD tracking issue although I still think its too low for me ;w;


----------



## qsxcv

i havent gotten the update yet :/


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Exactly. What update? Where?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://support.logitech.com/software/gaming-software
8.72.98


----------



## qsxcv

yup that's it
thanks








g303's new srom version is 0x09. ill dump it tonight and also check g502's new srom

edit2: k dumped in 3366 reverse engineering thread op
looks like there are 2 rest modes now. first one activates after ~8 seconds of inactivity, second one activates after ~15 more seconds


----------



## Conceptx

Hey guys, did they fix this fault already? Can I be sure if I RMA the new one won't have this issue?


----------



## Oneyed

I tried yesterday.
I have big hands. Nice mouse but unable to grip properly that diamond shape


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

After messing around with it for a few hours in osu! today I noticed that the sensor feels off. It feels like there's more smoothing and maybe some accel. Could someone retest the mouse?


----------



## 7onoff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> After messing around with it for a few hours in osu! today I noticed that the sensor feels off. It feels like there's more smoothing and maybe some accel. Could someone retest the mouse?


Try to calibrate sensor. I have no speed variance in cs go


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7onoff*
> 
> Try to calibrate sensor. I have no speed variance in cs go


Im still get variances :/


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Im still get variances :/


Maybeh you shoulda never open your mouse so many times >: (
Your mouse is doomed it seems with all the problems ur getting lol


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Maybeh you shoulda never open your mouse so many times >: (
> Your mouse is doomed it seems with all the problems ur getting lol


Rip my mouse. Im just going to buy the FM 2015 when they restock.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Rip my mouse. Im just going to buy the FM 2015 when they restock.


I really wanted to buy the FM 2015 just because of the weight and the omron switches...

I was trying to find pros and cons to convince myself to buy another mouse...

I said screw it all and chose to stick with my G303 instead...

going to save up my money and pre order battlefront isntead :S


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

:c The only (ahem functional) mice I have atm are my G303, G302, and DA 2013. I dislike the G303/G302's shape and density. I also hate the DA 2013's ridiculous smoothing. ;w; I JUST WANT A GOOD MOUSE


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> :c The only (ahem functional) mice I have atm are my G303, G302, and DA 2013. I dislike the G303/G302's shape and density. I also hate the DA 2013's ridiculous smoothing. ;w; I JUST WANT A GOOD MOUSE


Considering you seem to kill everything you touch, I doubt the fm will help you there.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Considering you seem to kill everything you touch, I doubt the fm will help you there.


If it works fine out of the box then it wouldn't need any "adjustments"


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> :c The only (ahem functional) mice I have atm are my G303, G302, and DA 2013. I dislike the G303/G302's shape and density. I also hate the DA 2013's ridiculous smoothing. ;w; I JUST WANT A GOOD MOUSE


Do you have the newest firmware for DA13?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> :c The only (ahem functional) mice I have atm are my G303, G302, and DA 2013. I dislike the G303/G302's shape and density. *I also hate the DA 2013's ridiculous smoothing.* ;w; I JUST WANT A GOOD MOUSE


Give uninstalling Synapse a whirl:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1563813/somewhat-objectively-evaluating-sensor-responsiveness/130#post_24187957
http://www.overclock.net/t/1563813/somewhat-objectively-evaluating-sensor-responsiveness/140#post_24188758

Also, if you have any chance to spread this, do so. I mean, come on, mouse software that messes with cursor precision THIS MUCH. At least Logitech gets there damn tech right.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Do you have the newest firmware for DA13?


It isn't giving me any notification to update my firmware so I assume it probably is the latest.


----------



## TriviumKM

My LED color setting doesn't save / stick ever since updating my g303 software / firmware to the latest. I can change it fine in the software, but as soon as i exit out the software my lighting reverts to default color (blue). And yes, i have it set to on board.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> My LED color setting doesn't save / stick ever since updating my g303 software / firmware to the latest. I can change it fine in the software, but as soon as i exit out the software my lighting reverts to default color (blue). And yes, i have it set to on board.


Kill the software. I mean terminate the running process via task manager. That made my settings stick.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> Kill the software. I mean terminate the running process via task manager. That made my settings stick.


Didn't work.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> My LED color setting doesn't save / stick ever since updating my g303 software / firmware to the latest. I can change it fine in the software, but as soon as i exit out the software my lighting reverts to default color (blue). And yes, i have it set to on board.


It sticks after reboot/replugging the mouse.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> It sticks after reboot/replugging the mouse.


Tried that and it didn't work either. I ended up removing it completely from device manager and also reinstalling the software, works now.
Thanks for the help.


----------



## datmitxguy

My FK1 just died and i will have to RMA it. So this is a good time to look at other mice and the G303 was always on top of my list.

I have a question regarding click latency: is there any?

e: found the other thread..


----------



## Seville Orange

Frustrating times









The middle button on my G303 is non functional after only a couple of hours using the mouse. I haven't even made it out of desktop browsing yet. It was flaky at first - even suspected it might be a software problem in linux, but it stopped working entirely so I tested in windows and nothing at all.

Anyone else had a problem with the wheel/middle button failing?

I need to get a replacement sorted. I wish I could get v2.0 of this mouse with slightly softer contours on the 'hip,' a little shorter at the rear end, and with a decent quality wheel with side tilt.

As it is I will probably just go for straight replacement G303, impressions are actually good aside from the wheel and wanting a little refinement of the shape. Are the any updates or other issues that I should look for?


----------



## qsxcv

lol found this post and got confused for a second
http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=990890#pid990932
Quote:


> anything logitech other than the 3xx has ******ed alien shapes and the drivers are a pita to set up consistently.


then i realized it was from 2006


----------



## NicoNicoNii

After getting used to the G303, I don't think I can use another mouse. The sensor is just too good. The shape is kinda meh, I got used to it, but it could definitely be better. If it was a G100s shape it would literally be the perfect mouse, but that would be too simple for Logitech apparently.


----------



## aayman_farzand

^I'm still hoping some genius is going to figure out how to make a 3D printed shell and sell it. I don't care if it blocks the side lights as long as it's done right.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Hopefully someone with CAD skills and access to a 3D printer sees this


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> ^I'm still hoping some genius is going to figure out how to make a 3D printed shell and sell it. I don't care if it blocks the side lights as long as it's done right.


As silly as it sounds I think there are legal issues preventing something like that. Could be wrong though.


----------



## jtl999

CAD skills: a bit.

Can get access to 3D printers of various kinds, but you have to understand, the kind of plastic in my experience is slightly different from what your used to


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> CAD skills: a bit.
> 
> Can get access to 3D printers of various kinds, but you have to understand, the kind of plastic in my experience is slightly different from what your used to


I dont see whats wrong with ABS unless you're using something more exotic like metal...


----------



## Rei86

After reading the 1st 20 pages (100 post per page), the hate is just adorable.

You guys are pretty much all in agreement that the buttons are good and the most important aspect being the sensor is great. While you might argue that its not the best of the best but its still one of the better. My Razer Naga Hex decided it was going to have a double clicking field day so I took it to work and dissembled it for the hell of it and now its sitting as scrap as the replacement switches that I ordered took to long to get here









So I decided to have fun and play with other ones I have at the house. 1st off I'm not a competitive FPSer on the PC so I have no clue *** you guys are talking about when it come to "flicking" and having the D/CPI at 800. I like my mouse sitting at a nice 1500~2500 as I'm a wrist user, and most of the games I play are action RPGs, strat games, MOBA etc on the PC. And dare I say it, I use a Xbox 360 controller at times for other things! GASP!

But I do love me a good mouse. One with good tracking sensor that holds up accuracy at low speed and high. And unlike a lot of you I like some weight to my mouse, that's why i enjoyed older Logitech flagships. However I find it funny that a lot of you guys enjoyed the G9 shape. I hated the rear butt as it was overly shifted up and my palm would rub on it giving it a tingly numb like feeling after long uses like as if I was allergic to it or something. And while it served its purpose well I gave it away to a friend after I "upgraded" to something else.

Sorry for the fluff but I've been on a rampage on buying **** I don't need.
And with my small hand I hate the SteelSeries Rival. The overly large mid section starts to act up my hand and gives me a cramp.
The FinalMouse 2015 is pretty damn wonderful, but it feels cheap... like you live behind the railroad in a trailer super cheap.
Bought a Roccat Nyth because again I'm not one of you die hard FPS ragers and I love the feel and preminess of the damn thing.
The G502 has to many buttons in places where you wouldn't want them.
Backup Razer Naga Hex just as good as the other one... Thank god for the spare switches.
Corsair M65 works just fine. And I love the build quality of the damn thing. Wish I could have that shape/build with the Naga Hex side buttons and a good sensor.

And we have the 303. Again I have small hands the thing feels just fine in my hands. I love the spring loaded LMB/RMB. Its like its floating and the clicks to them are very satisfying. And unlike the FinalMouse it has a nice click sound/feel, where again the FM is hollow and cold. The butt RGB light effect is a nice touch, and the scroll wheel is nice. Paid only 39.99 for it and I think its just right at that price point. I'm satisfied.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> After reading the 1st 20 pages (100 post per page), the hate is just adorable.
> 
> You guys are pretty much all in agreement that the buttons are good and the most important aspect being the sensor is great. While you might argue that its not the best of the best but its still one of the better. My Razer Naga Hex decided it was going to have a double clicking field day so I took it to work and dissembled it for the hell of it and now its sitting as scrap as the replacement switches that I ordered took to long to get here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I decided to have fun and play with other ones I have at the house. 1st off I'm not a competitive FPSer on the PC so I have no clue *** you guys are talking about when it come to "flicking" and having the D/CPI at 800. I like my mouse sitting at a nice 1500~2500 as I'm a wrist user, and most of the games I play are action RPGs, strat games, MOBA etc on the PC. And dare I say it, I use a Xbox 360 controller at times for other things! GASP!
> 
> But I do love me a good mouse. One with good tracking sensor that holds up accuracy at low speed and high. And unlike a lot of you I like some weight to my mouse, that's why i enjoyed older Logitech flagships. However I find it funny that a lot of you guys enjoyed the G9 shape. I hated the rear butt as it was overly shifted up and my palm would rub on it giving it a tingly numb like feeling after long uses like as if I was allergic to it or something. And while it served its purpose well I gave it away to a friend after I "upgraded" to something else.
> 
> Sorry for the fluff but I've been on a rampage on buying **** I don't need.
> And with my small hand I hate the SteelSeries Rival. The overly large mid section starts to act up my hand and gives me a cramp.
> The FinalMouse 2015 is pretty damn wonderful, but it feels cheap... like you live behind the railroad in a trailer super cheap.
> Bought a Roccat Nyth because again I'm not one of you die hard FPS ragers and I love the feel and preminess of the damn thing.
> The G502 has to many buttons in places where you wouldn't want them.
> Backup Razer Naga Hex just as good as the other one... Thank god for the spare switches.
> Corsair M65 works just fine. And I love the build quality of the damn thing. Wish I could have that shape/build with the Naga Hex side buttons and a good sensor.
> 
> And we have the 303. Again I have small hands the thing feels just fine in my hands. I love the spring loaded LMB/RMB. Its like its floating and the clicks to them are very satisfying. And unlike the FinalMouse it has a nice click sound/feel, where again the FM is hollow and cold. The butt RGB light effect is a nice touch, and the scroll wheel is nice. Paid only 39.99 for it and I think its just right at that price point. I'm satisfied.


Really?
"The hate is adorable..."
I don't get why you posted all this **** when you could of just said "I don't know anything about mouse and I refuse to learn" and here is my overview of the mice. Was it necessary to add in a bunch of other mouse without a good comparison to the G303. You sound like you look down at people...
Flicking is pretty self explantory rofl


----------



## Rei86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Really?
> "The hate is adorable..."
> I don't get why you posted all this **** when you could of just said "I don't know anything about mouse and I refuse to learn" and here is my overview of the mice. Was it necessary to add in a bunch of other mouse without a good comparison to the G303. You sound like you look down at people...
> Flicking is pretty self explantory rofl


The hate IS hilarious. People are absolutely writing off the mouse because they hate the shape. Which is fine as their own opinion, but they are making it a definitive statement that everyone is going to hate the shape also. Sorry but its individual preference.

"Flicking is pretty self explantory rofl" you don't say?


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> The hate IS hilarious. People are absolutely writing off the mouse because they hate the shape. Which is fine as their own opinion, but they are making it a definitive statement that everyone is going to hate the shape also. Sorry but its individual preference.
> 
> "Flicking is pretty self explantory rofl" you don't say?


How is the hate hysterical? I don't see any comedy value in critism over the specs of the mouse and the way it's made. Overclockers arent spoiled children who are whining but more or less giving pros and cons about the mouse and having a good discussion over the mouse. The general view of the mouse shape is that its best for claw and fingertip but takes a while to get used to. Not "Everyone is going to hate thise mouse because of the diamond shape. DONT GET IT PLS".. (IMO)It's absolutely stupid how logitech has went for this futureistic spaceship looking mouse instead of taking into consideration of what was good of there past mouse and implementing it with there future mouse. It's one thing Zowie does best out of most other companies by offering a simple looking mouse yet performing wonderfully.


----------



## Rei86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> How is the hate hysterical? I don't see any comedy value in critism over the specs of the mouse and the way it's made. Overclockers arent spoiled children who are whining but more or less giving pros and cons about the mouse and having a good discussion over the mouse. The general view of the mouse shape is that its best for claw and fingertip but takes a while to get used to. Not "Everyone is going to hate thise mouse because of the diamond shape. DONT GET IT PLS".. (IMO)It's absolutely stupid how logitech has went for this futureistic spaceship looking mouse instead of taking into consideration of what was good of there past mouse and implementing it with there future mouse. It's one thing Zowie does best out of most other companies by offering a simple looking mouse yet performing wonderfully.


Go back and actually read the thread of people complaining about the shape. Again that's fine, but when trying to push on that no one else will like the shape of the mouse because they don't? Please get the .... out of here.

And believe that a small niche portion of the market is the mass majority? Get the ... out of here again.

You can give feedback all you want and hope that Logitech will listen, or another company. But insisting that your personal preference is also the same for everyone else is adorable.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I've gotten so used to this shape I no longer think of how to grip it. It's here to stay with me at this point.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> Go back and actually read the thread of people complaining about the shape. Again that's fine, but when trying to push on that no one else will like the shape of the mouse because they don't? Please get the .... out of here.
> 
> And believe that a small niche portion of the market is the mass majority? Get the ... out of here again.
> 
> You can give feedback all you want and hope that Logitech will listen, or another company. But insisting that your personal preference is also the same for everyone else is adorable.


People did complain about the G303 but I do not see a lot of people necessarily pushing people into avoiding this mouse like it's a terrible oem mouse. Nowhere did I say that claw/fingertip were the mass majority of the market. Most of the people only gave there opinions about the mouse and warn people that they may or may not like some of the feature on the mouse. You must be really popular at school with the way you talk to people.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> You guys are pretty much all in agreement that the buttons are good and the most important aspect being the sensor is great.


Most important??

I've come to conclusion after some years that these 2 aspects before anything else are most important:

- You can use your mouse without hitting malfunction speed = reliability
- The DAMNED shape!

But the real reason for the hate is that Logitech got EVERYTHING right in the technology department and then FAIL to design a shell. Regardless of people being to use it, the group of potential users with a G100s like shell could've been far bigger.

Godlike buttons, really nice performance. People are annoyed because they're basically being "taunted" by Logitech.

(and yeah I gave it a chance for 3 weeks on end)


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> As silly as it sounds I think there are legal issues preventing something like that. Could be wrong though.


what if someone anonymous just uploads the design and we print it out ourselves at 3dprinting shops
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Most important??
> 
> I've come to conclusion after some years that these 2 aspects before anything else are most important:
> 
> - You can use your mouse without hitting malfunction speed = reliability
> - The DAMNED shape!


yup pretty much this, provided that the mouse doesn't have insane amounts of smoothing or prediction


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

If only they could take off the sleep states on the 3366. @qsxcv Have you ever tried locking the sensor framerate at 12k fps and then comparing it to the MLT04 in your "mouse responsiveness test"?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> If only they could take off the sleep states on the 3366.


well it doesn't matter unless you don't move the mouse for 10 seconds...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> @qsxcv Have you ever tried locking the sensor framerate at 12k fps and then comparing it to the MLT04 in your "mouse responsiveness test"?


it already matches mtl04 as far as i can tell from my plots. i couldn't find any way to lock the framerate :/


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Last time I checked MLT04 had a rest mode too?


----------



## qsxcv

yup and it activates in like 2s of no motion so it's even worse








just shows that it doesnt really matter


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

It still doesn't make sense to have sleep states since the power draw from a mouse is negligible.


----------



## wareya

~batteries~


----------



## iRUSH

I have been using this mouse for a few months. I also have a CM Storm Xornet and a Deathadder Black 3.5g. The precision and consistency of the G303 is noticeably better than the other two. I thought it was just a placebo effect so I recently went back to the Deathadder. After taking the time to set it up to my liking, it was obvious from start just how great the G303 works for me.

The only thing keeping me from giving the G303 a perfect score is its shape. You can get use to most peripherals and getting use to this wasn't that big of a deal. I actually didn't like the feel of the Deathadder after going back to it as it almost melt into my hand making me lazy/delayed with button presses. That was odd and surly would pass just like the odd feeling of the G303.

I've had a few other mice but I have these 3 on hand and I'd take the G303 over any I have or have ever used thanks to its precision and consistency. FYI, I primarily play online FPS titles and need that out of a mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> ~batteries~


I dont recall the G303/G502 having batteries


----------



## Rei86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> People did complain about the G303 but I do not see a lot of people necessarily pushing people into avoiding this mouse like it's a terrible oem mouse. Nowhere did I say that claw/fingertip were the mass majority of the market. Most of the people only gave there opinions about the mouse and warn people that they may or may not like some of the feature on the mouse. You must be really popular at school with the way you talk to people.


You're a really odd fellow and seems to love making assumptions about people.

Let me make mine, you must be number one in your schools debate team.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Most important??
> 
> I've come to conclusion after some years that these 2 aspects before anything else are most important:
> 
> - You can use your mouse without hitting malfunction speed = reliability
> - The DAMNED shape!
> 
> But the real reason for the hate is that Logitech got EVERYTHING right in the technology department and then FAIL to design a shell. Regardless of people being to use it, the group of potential users with a G100s like shell could've been far bigger.
> 
> Godlike buttons, really nice performance. People are annoyed because they're basically being "taunted" by Logitech.
> 
> (and yeah I gave it a chance for 3 weeks on end)


Dude, the shapes of a mouse and what a person would consider comfortable for their hands is called personally preference. I know earlier in the thread you did give the thing a chance unlike some of the other members on the forums. However I guess I must repeat this part again.

The technical aspects can be backed up by data to dispute ones claims. Most of you are in agreement that the sensor of the mouse is pretty good. Some of you however like AuraDesruu proclaiming that the shape is god awful is fine, but again its an opinion.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I dont recall the G303/G502 having batteries


Laptops


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

LEDs dont use much power. I dont see why they couldn't have made a toggleable sleep state.


----------



## wareya

sensors are used in more than just wired mice


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> LEDs dont use much power. I dont see why they couldn't have made a toggleable sleep state.


"Hey guys, CM STORM Rep here, I'd like to inform you about an inherent flaw in our new gaming mouse the CM STORM Recon! We tried cutting costs a little too much this time! Soooooo if you have any of the leds turned on, the polling rate will fluctuate wildly, and sensor performance will be reduced. Oops! Have a nice day!"

Wireless mice. Mouthbreathing ODM's. There are reasons sleep state/power saving features in peripherals exist.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> You're a really odd fellow and seems to love making assumptions about people.
> 
> Let me make mine, you must be number one in your schools debate team.
> Dude, the shapes of a mouse and what a person would consider comfortable for their hands is called personally preference. I know earlier in the thread you did give the thing a chance unlike some of the other members on the forums. However I guess I must repeat this part again.
> 
> The technical aspects can be backed up by data to dispute ones claims. Most of you are in agreement that the sensor of the mouse is pretty good. Some of you however like AuraDesruu proclaiming that the shape is god awful is fine, but again its an opinion.
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Laptops


You act like you are higher than everyone else.. You indirectly called everyone spoiled and childish in this thread who were discussing about the g303 shape. It's really ironic because I use the G303 as my main driver rofl. Everything is pretty personal about a mouse if you are going to use this bs excuse on everything. I guess for soemone like Above8, he might call the 3366 a inferior sensor compared to his Mad CAtz PTE mouse. Considering how you cant read and how I stated the shape is decent for claw and fingertip. I'm probably going to drop the conversation before this elevates even more. Hopefully you dont pick it back up


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> Let me make mine, you must be number one in your schools debate team.
> Dude, the shapes of a mouse and what a person would consider comfortable for their hands is called personally preference. I know earlier in the thread you did give the thing a chance unlike some of the other members on the forums. However I guess I must repeat this part again.


The shape is use-able for a specific grip and I assume those people really do like it. It's more about how they have "alienated" everyone else. G100s / MX300 / Sensei / Zowie Ambi models / Intelli / ... the list goes on. These are all very "basic" shapes. Basic tends to work better for a larger group of people. No special groves, etc, the question is more about size and width but beyond that, they can within reasonable limits offer a good fit for a wide array of grip styles.

The G303 does not. Like I said, I can imagine it being comfortable for a lot of people, but if we were to run a serious test and look at results, I really wouldn't be surprised if the average user reported the G100s or MX300 shape as "preferable" at the very least.

At first when I grab the G303 it feels fine, it's only after prolonged playtime when my grip settles a bit that it actually becomes problematic and can even cause some pain/strain.


----------



## xmr1

My grip works with it fine and I can use it well but I would never describe it as comfortable. More like tolerable. It's just not a natural shape for a hand imo.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> My grip works with it fine and I can use it well but I would never describe it as comfortable. More like tolerable. It's just not a natural shape for a hand imo.


Would you still use it if Logitech offered a G100s or MX300 shaped variant with the similar buttons and sensor performance?









(and your current financial state was of no influence)


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Would you still use it if Logitech offered a G100s or MX300 shaped variant with the similar buttons and sensor performance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (and your current financial state was of no influence)


Definitely not, was agreeing with you.


----------



## Rei86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> You act like you are higher than everyone else.. You indirectly called everyone spoiled and childish in this thread who were discussing about the g303 shape. It's really ironic because I use the G303 as my main driver rofl. Everything is pretty personal about a mouse if you are going to use this bs excuse on everything. I guess for soemone like Above8, he might call the 3366 a inferior sensor compared to his Mad CAtz PTE mouse. Considering how you cant read and how I stated the shape is decent for claw and fingertip. I'm probably going to drop the conversation before this elevates even more. Hopefully you dont pick it back up


You did't have an argument to begin with. Again because you and the people hate this mouse, assumes everyone else would be in agreement with them. How old are you? Do we need to go over what an opinion and personal preference are? You're trying to take my post that jabbed at thos who believe that their mindset and thought process are the correct and only logical one. One where its actually and has always been about someones preference. This is like telling Logitech if they made the box red they would have sold more because some community forum feels as if the color red is the right and only choice for a box color. Sorry to break it too you but the 303 atm is selling just fine, which means the masses have spoken and they actually GASP! Like this mouse perhaps? Because I sure as hell don't spend my money on items that I hate.

Now would it have sold better if it was shaped like a G100s, Deathadder, Sensei etc etc. Who knows. We don't live in a world of what IFs and Logitech has stood their ground that they want to make this mouse in this shape and they're going to stick to it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> My grip works with it fine and I can use it well but I would never describe it as comfortable. More like tolerable. It's just not a natural shape for a hand imo.


Makes me wonder than if something like this was made with all the bells and whistles that the forum wants









Pretty much how an hand would sit naturally.


----------



## wareya

have fun with your insane weight


----------



## vanir1337

Alrighty gonna put my opinion here. I've always been a palmer, so this mouse is kinda uncomfortable for me. Even tho I'm using a Newmen GX1-Pro for my current main and it's not so much smaller, but the G303 has such a strange butt that I just can't get used to. Even tho, performance-wise it's unbeatable, the sensor is ridiculously good, same applies for the switches.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> have fun with your insane weight


This.
G303 is a dense mouse


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Definitely not, was agreeing with you.


I know, I'm just making a point, your answer is of no surprise


----------



## polynomialc

Just picked up this mouse, works great. Feels very smooth, seems like it has a great sensor. I was using steelseries fnatic sensei before this one. The clicking on this mouse is louder then the sensei


----------



## CorruptBE

How's the shape working out for you? We all know it functions awesomely in the technical department


----------



## NicoNicoNii

I've been using the G303 for like a month now. Logitech definitely makes the best sizes of mice, it's a great size for my small hands. The mouse butt height is very nice too, something that Logitech is really really good at doing. So many gaming mice now have really low butts which makes it hard for me to grip the mouse well, and Logitech basically does the opposite of that. The \_/ shape of the mouse is pretty annoying; if it was more like a standard mouse and was fatter along the edges it would be a perfect shape Imo, very similar to G100s which is the mouse with the most comfortable shape that I've ever used.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> You did't have an argument to begin with. Again because you and the people hate this mouse, assumes everyone else would be in agreement with them. How old are you? Do we need to go over what an opinion and personal preference are? You're trying to take my post that jabbed at thos who believe that their mindset and thought process are the correct and only logical one. One where its actually and has always been about someones preference. This is like telling Logitech if they made the box red they would have sold more because some community forum feels as if the color red is the right and only choice for a box color. Sorry to break it too you but the 303 atm is selling just fine, which means the masses have spoken and they actually GASP! Like this mouse perhaps? Because I sure as hell don't spend my money on items that I hate.
> 
> Now would it have sold better if it was shaped like a G100s, Deathadder, Sensei etc etc. Who knows. We don't live in a world of what IFs and Logitech has stood their ground that they want to make this mouse in this shape and they're going to stick to it.
> Makes me wonder than if something like this was made with all the bells and whistles that the forum wants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much how an hand would sit naturally.


How many times do I have to repeat myself that I actually use a G303 as my daily mouse for browing the internet and playing CS GO? There is a big difference between shoving preferences down people's throat and telling them that they should be wary of the shape as its not similar to that of traditional ambi claw grip mice such as the Intellimouse 1.1A. Big difference between "YOU WILL AVOID THIS MOUSE AT ALL COST BECAUSE THE SHAPE IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE" and " You should be warned that it's not similar to other mice and that he diamond shape might or may not work for you". I've generall seen people in this thread tell people to be wary of the mouse not working out because of the diamond curves. These are all experiences and opinions that are shared for other people to think about before getting the mouse. You are right about a mouse being a very personal thing but your whole arguement that everyone in this thread has been shoving there opinions down peoples throat and telling them to avoid this mouse as if it was some chinese **** made product is tottally overexgerated and wrong. It's really ironic that you bring up sales and preference because I'm pretty sure there was a poll for if you liked the G303 shape and didnt like the G303 shape. A lot of people voted it was medicore or bad compared to great. If the G303 was such a popular ambidex mouse with great claw/fingertip form. It would of been used more often than the FK1. Except it isnt
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1tQbY62ava35RPpV3sxw6vqb5KTeEmB_azAisgfgPN9Y/viewanalytics

[Number of people who use the mouse for CS GO daily]
*According the CS GO r/ Summer Mouse Poll
14805 People Reponded to the poll*

*Logitech G302 Moba Gaming Mouse [81] 1.7%
Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex [272] 5.8%*

*Zowie FK [83] 5.1%
Zowie FK 2014 [8] 0.5%
Zowie FK Pro [1] 0.1%
Zowie FK1 [821] 50.7%
Zowie FK2 [202] 12.5%*

FK series are to be similar to that of 1.1a shape?
G303 shape is decent and some people may like it but what would of happen if logitech went with a 1.1A shell with the metal springs and 3366 sensor. There market woud of boosted insanely from it.

Edit: I believe the sensei is unpopular because everyone has the general idea that the avago laser sensor has inconsistent accleration. Therefore it's not as poular as the rival. If the sensei did have a optical sensor. Imagine how much publicity it would of gotten with the 3310 sensor.

*SteelSeries Rival [1577] 58.3%
SteelSeries Sensei [289] 10.7%
SteelSeries Sensei [RAW] [461] 17.1%
SteelSeries Kana v2 [115] 4.3%*


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I actually voted that I hated the shape, but I'm using it now. hue


----------



## Rei86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> How many times do I have to repeat myself that I actually use a G303 as my daily mouse for browing the internet and playing CS GO? There is a big difference between shoving preferences down people's throat and telling them that they should be wary of the shape as its not similar to that of traditional ambi claw grip mice such as the Intellimouse 1.1A. [/B]


Go back and read the thread, and go back and read my post. Go and look at your reply to my post. You didn't have an argument to being with and seems to only want to start something for the sake of starting something /smh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> [Number of people who use the mouse for CS GO daily]
> *According the CS GO r/ Summer Mouse Poll
> 14805 People Reponded to the poll*
> 
> *Logitech G302 Moba Gaming Mouse [81] 1.7%
> Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex [272] 5.8%*
> 
> *Zowie FK [83] 5.1%
> Zowie FK 2014 [8] 0.5%
> Zowie FK Pro [1] 0.1%
> Zowie FK1 [821] 50.7%
> Zowie FK2 [202] 12.5%*
> 
> FK series are to be similar to that of 1.1a shape?
> G303 shape is decent and some people may like it but what would of happen if logitech went with a 1.1A shell with the metal springs and 3366 sensor. There market woud of boosted insanely from it.
> 
> Edit: I believe the sensei is unpopular because everyone has the general idea that the avago laser sensor has inconsistent accleration. Therefore it's not as poular as the rival. If the sensei did have a optical sensor. Imagine how much publicity it would of gotten with the 3310 sensor.
> 
> *SteelSeries Rival [1577] 58.3%
> SteelSeries Sensei [289] 10.7%
> SteelSeries Sensei [RAW] [461] 17.1%
> SteelSeries Kana v2 [115] 4.3%*


Again you're looking at a smaller picture here in the overall arc for a company like Logitech. It also makes me wonder if people like they sponsor have asked for a G100s shape + all the bits of the innards of their higher end mouse. And if they did why was it denied?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> have fun with your insane weight


If you're talking about that Anker mouse that I posted it doesn't have to be insanely heavy. just an FYI the cable version of that mouse is 3.4oz = 96grams.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> It also makes me wonder if people like they sponsor have asked for a G100s shape + all the bits of the innards of their higher end mouse.


considering that n0thing and ska use a g100s......... for sure


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> How's the shape working out for you? We all know it functions awesomely in the technical department


With the exception of non user adjustable LOD.


----------



## CorruptBE

Those numbers are quite impressive if you ask me (for Zowie), considering how little effort Zowie spends on marketing their mice vs Steelseries/Razer.

Shaped like a G100s, add some bling bling lights, sidebuttons, the same spring action buttons and the 3366 + some better marketing (getting a top 3 EU team using your mice might seriously help with that).

All in all, I get the impression Razer (sales wise) gets the job done just marketing wise alone lol.

I mean, aside from the DA and the Abyssus, what good have they brought out the last few years? Quality and tech wise Logitech is a step up tbh. Hell Synapse even messes with mousetracking.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> With the exception of non user adjustable LOD.


Minor issue. I prefer high LOD myself, but if it was G100S/MX300 shaped I would just get used to it because pretty much everything else would be spot on. Worst case scenario I would have to slightly up my sensitivity (low LOD tends to make me turn 170° instead of 180° when turning around quickly).

And it could very well be the mouse I just used non stop then, hence I would end up ordering more then 1 after some time.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rei86*
> 
> Go back and read the thread, and go back and read my post. Go and look at your reply to my post. You didn't have an argument to being with and seems to only want to start something for the sake of starting something /smh
> Again you're looking at a smaller picture here in the overall arc for a company like Logitech. It also makes me wonder if people like they sponsor have asked for a G100s shape + all the bits of the innards of their higher end mouse. And if they did why was it denied?
> If you're talking about that Anker mouse that I posted it doesn't have to be insanely heavy. just an FYI the cable version of that mouse is 3.4oz = 96grams.


The only reason I got pissed off at your post is because you stated things in such a arrogant manner that it was unbearable to read. If you didnt add in the part how you felt it was hysterical and how you were laughing at everyone "criticizing" the shape. I would of respected you from the start.


----------



## Maximillion

Just to chime in, honestly I don't think the issue with the G303 (for _me_) is purely the shape. I think it's simply too small (narrow) for my hand. That's likely where the eventual cramping/discomfort comes from. I experience similar strains after awhile with other narrow mice that have "regular" shapes regardless of what grip I use. I really like how my thumb sits on the 303 but the right side just doesn't work. I can easily see how certain users can absolutely love it though.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I slightly changed my grip so that I click M1 and M2 on the top left and top right respectively instead of anywhere in the middle. Took about a day or so to adjust and now I have no complaints about the grip anymore.

The shape is average at best but I would not switch to any other mouse simply because of it. I love the clicks and the sensor (only one of the two that tracks perfectly on HDPE, other one being G402).


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Finally came across a G303 with a higher s/n than my current one. Scooped it up.

Prevented me from buying some crappy Corsair mouse I would have tested once and never used again.


----------



## Scrimstar

where can u get one of these for $30? bestbuy sold a bunch for $30 but its $40 now


----------



## FeelKun

I palm grip the FK1 (Small hands don't know exact measurements) quite comfortably. I just can't get used lmb + rmb of the fk1(I've had the fk1 since sept 2014) ... Would this mouse considering my hand size fit somewhat comfortably in my hand? or is this mouse all up to preference? Also, I can't seem to find the cord length of the mouse.

Yup, I Know it's been asked a million times.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Midgetaur*
> 
> I palm grip the FK1 (Small hands don't know exact measurements) quite comfortably. I just can't get used lmb + rmb of the fk1(I've had the fk1 since sept 2014) ... Would this mouse considering my hand size fit somewhat comfortably in my hand? or is this mouse all up to preference? Also, I can't seem to find the cord length of the mouse.
> 
> Yup, I Know it's been asked a million times.


you wouldn't be able to palm it, that's for sure.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Amazon just put the G303 "under review" because apparently people were complaining about ones being shipped out (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Edition-910-004380/dp/B00TKFD51M). Maybe they'll get a fresh shipment soon without lens problems, etc. I'll probably get it then, since I really like the G100s and I think I could get used to the new shape.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Amazon just put the G303 "under review" because apparently people were complaining about ones being shipped out (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Edition-910-004380/dp/B00TKFD51M). Maybe they'll get a fresh shipment soon without lens problems, etc. I'll probably get it then, since I really like the G100s and I think I could get used to the new shape.


I actually find it amusing that I'm finding fresher stock in local stores than online.


----------



## hotwheels1997

It's impossible to palm grip this mouse,isn't it? I would love to test the shape,but I'm more of a palm gripper.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> It's impossible to palm grip this mouse,isn't it? I would love to test the shape,but I'm more of a palm gripper.


Yea it's a claw/fingertip mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Unless your hands are really tiny yyou wont be able to palm it


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

df


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

df


----------



## Eutheran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> It's tempting considering the sensor, the light weight, and the buttons. The only thing that's been holding me back is the shape, but if other guys with 17cm hands (from bottom of palm to tip of middle finger) are able to comfortably use it, then maybe it won't be a problem.
> 
> The shape for the g303 seems pretty divisive. It makes me think that logitech intentionally shaped it oddly so that people would still have an incentive to spend $50+ on the g402 and g502.


I use the mouse with 17.5 CM palm to tip hands (wide hands though) and have no problem. I play a lot of CSGO, am global and all that jazz. I think the mouse is great. However it took a lot of time for me to get used to the shape, I probably had hand cramps for at least 2 weeks while using this mouse before my fingers learned where they needed to go. Keep in mind I play about 4~ hrs 4 days a week for team practice so it might be a slower process for you if you don't use the computer as much.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Has anyone tried molding Sugru onto their mice?
http://www.instructables.com/id/Sugru-Mousegrip/


----------



## LewisASTL

my hands is 20 cm long from basepalm to medium finger end and i was quite comfy with g302 as fingertip.
First days with this mouse are like hell imho, just give him some chance. When you get used, it's fine.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but I think because of their logitech sponsorship, they've replaced the g100s for a g303 and g402, respectively.
> 
> Shroud is using the g303 now as well.


Logitech or cloud9 doesn't care specifically which mouse you use, just that it is a Logitech mouse. Shroud was just using the g302 then g303 (coming from zowie fk) from preference. They all probably just tried each mouse, I remember freakazoid having a g100s, g303, and g402 and just switching it up in his stream in the early days. He use to use a deathadder iirc


----------



## qsxcv

pretty sure n0thing still uses g100s since he doesnt like g302/3 shape


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> pretty sure n0thing still uses g100s since he doesnt like g302/3 shape


He used it yesterday in Dubai.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> pretty sure n0thing still uses g100s since he doesnt like g302/3 shape


I actually wonder if some of these top players are in a state of constant denial:

"But it feels sooooo nice... but the shape... G100s?? Hmmz.... Oooh but it performs so good. Which one should I use this Tournament?"


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

If only they had put the G303 in a smaller G402 shell... G403 when?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> If only they had put the G303 in a smaller G402 shell... G403 when?


Why? The 402 shell forces you to palm grip because of the shape, weight and where the weight is distributed


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Why? The 402 shell forces you to palm grip because of the shape, weight and where the weight is distributed


I said smaller >:/


----------



## altf4

I saw one day get_right using g402, now g303 but i'm not sure.


----------



## Pirx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I actually wonder if some of these top players are in a state of constant denial:
> 
> "But it feels sooooo nice... but the shape... G100s?? Hmmz.... Oooh but it performs so good. Which one should I use this Tournament?"


yeah it's a pity how logitech makes excellent hardware (anyway sensor and buttons!) and then manages to stick it into rather unusual shapes.

for example that g303 diamond shape: it's ok for me as long as i use the main buttons only, but i keep moving the mouse to the right when pressing the thumb buttons.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

I play on a 144hz monitor at 1440x1080 with a g303 in csgo

is there any differnce between

400 DPI sensitivity 2

and

1000DPI Sensitivity 0.8 ?

or is it the exact same thing ?

because according to Chaos DPI calculator its the same


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> I play on a 144hz monitor at 1440x1080 with a g303 in csgo
> 
> is there any differnce between
> 
> 400 DPI sensitivity 2
> 
> and
> 
> 1000DPI Sensitivity 0.8 ?
> 
> or is it the exact same thing ?
> 
> because according to Chaos DPI calculator its the same


1000 dpi and 0.8 sens allows for greater granularity than 400 dpi and 2 sens


----------



## LifeIsGood4

can you explain what that means ? is that good or bad ?


----------



## wareya

It means you can aim at 2.5x the number of positions

as long as your mouse performs well at that DPI of 1000, there's no problem


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> I saw one day get_right using g402, now g303 but i'm not sure.


Get Right switched mice ~5 times since the end of their SteelSeries contract. From what I remember seeing: Xai, FK, Rival, G303, etc.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I said smaller >:/


It'd still be awkward because of the shape and the thumb ridge


----------



## lolwatpear

is there any way to make the middle click lighter? it requires too much force.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It'd still be awkward because of the shape and the thumb ridge


If the weight is low enough I can clawtip grip it.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> If the weight is low enough I can clawtip grip it.


The thumb ridge sticks out and would hit my thumb if i tried to do that kind of grip. You have little choice over than to rest the thumb on it


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lolwatpear*
> 
> is there any way to make the middle click lighter? it requires too much force.


Try to put some thick paper on the microswitch of the middle click. It should help, although it will shorten the travel distance too. Or remove the top shell of the mouse, and push the middle click button down hardly few times so the plastic will be loosened more.


----------



## gujukal

How does this mouse feel in the hand compared to the Kinzu? I guess its wider and feel a lot heavier?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The thumb ridge sticks out and would hit my thumb if i tried to do that kind of grip. You have little choice over than to rest the thumb on it











Idk seems fine to me


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Idk seems fine to me


That's because you're looking at the wrong mouse

this is the g402:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








the mouse in your picture is a g400s, i think


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> That's because you're looking at the wrong mouse
> 
> this is the g402:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the mouse in your picture is a g400s, i think


Isnt the shape somewhat similar tho? Can you point out where this ridgetl that could get in my way is?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Isnt the shape somewhat similar tho? Can you point out where this ridgetl that could get in my way is?


g400s is very different to g402/g502 shape.

The huge thumb rest that leads into the sniper button. You can especially see how much it sticks out from the underneath shot - you kinda have to rest the thumb down onto it and i wasn't successful with any kind of claw grip because of it


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Why cant we have a G9X with a 3366


----------



## NicoNicoNii

It's almost amazing how ugly the G402/502 are.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Its amazing how G303 looks the "best look" out of all of them but has the worst possible ergonomic shape.


----------



## iceskeleton

That arguably depends on your grip, since g400 and g402 (and deathadder) didn't work with my tense grip. Had pain around my ring finger after a session.

I don't feel comfortable palming when gaming


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> g400s is very different to g402/g502 shape.
> 
> The huge thumb rest that leads into the sniper button. You can especially see how much it sticks out from the underneath shot - you kinda have to rest the thumb down onto it and i wasn't successful with any kind of claw grip because of it


I can claw grip the G402 perfectly fine. Palming it doesn't work for me, though.


----------



## Chimpwn

So is there no way to get the logitech software to recognize the G303 on windows 10?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Download the latest LGS, it's working fine on my end.


----------



## Chimpwn

I downloaded this version

8.72.107

Uninstalled it, reinstalled it. Googled the issue and tried everything, but apparently the g303 is not officially recognized by windows 10 at this time.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Ok, I got my EC2-A today. Tried it for about 5-6 hours, and now I'm back to the G303. The shape of the mouse might be kinda weird, but the size and rounded butt make me feel like I can control it so much more than mice with flat butts. Not to mention the clicks + sensor.


----------



## bond10

I wish logitech would put their mice in those boxes where you can open the front flap and get a feel for the shape via plastic covering. Going back and forth to a BestBuy or Microcenter for a return is a pain in the ass.


----------



## dhaine

the g302 shape is not that bad until you get used to it

I expect to test the g303 soon because I heard the LOD is lower
Mouse click lag is also 1ms slower than g302

anybody can compare g303 lod with zowie FK ?
Some of you are still doing the tape trick with the g303 ?
Which hyperglide would you suggest for the g303 ?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dhaine*
> 
> the g302 shape is not that bad until you get used to it
> 
> I expect to test the g303 soon because I heard the LOD is lower
> Mouse click lag is also 1ms slower than g302
> 
> anybody can compare g303 lod with zowie FK ?
> Some of you are still doing the tape trick with the g303 ?
> Which hyperglide would you suggest for the g303 ?


Tape trick doesnt work for G303. The LOD is already the lowest there is.
Last time I checked there arent any Hyperglides for the G303


----------



## Trippy

I have been using the g303 for a month or two now without looking at the drivers. Does anyone know if the problems with surface tuning have been fixed or should I just use default? Using a QCK Heavy btw.


----------



## plyr

Im using the surface tunning on g502, I think its better, the lod gets lower with it.

The thing is, if you calibrate on the clean part of the mousepad and go to the dirty part, the sensor can malfunction... I tested this on QcK+, part of the mousepad gets a bit white from the dust with about a month of use, you need to calibrate the sensor both on the clean and dirty parts together if you want a good performance.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> Im using the surface tunning on g502, I think its better, the lod gets lower with it.
> 
> The thing is, if you calibrate on the clean part of the mousepad and go to the dirty part, the sensor can malfunction... I tested this on QcK+, part of the mousepad gets a bit white from the dust with about a month of use, you need to calibrate the sensor both on the clean and dirty parts together if you want a good performance.


Or you could clean your dirty mouse pad.

I clean my mouse pad when the PTFE accumulates to the point the glide is reduced. That happens often.


----------



## marsCS

I tried the surface tuning again after the firmware update and it's not perfect but definitely better. I tried recalibrating a couple of times after the update and it hasn't spazzed out since *knocksonwood*. This was on a Glorious XL btw.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Just wondering this isn't normal right...?


----------



## Melan

Looks fine.

Edit: Since you added polling graph, then no. It's not fine.


----------



## JMroz

What is the default DPI of the mouse when you first plug it in? I accidentally pressed the DPI buttons and it seems to have switched it up, but the 5 settings doesn't feel the same as the default..


----------



## Melan

800


----------



## bond10

Anyone in the U.S. purchased a mouse from Amazon.com that was sold by a third party? Do they have the same return policy as Amazon (full refund on opened items)? Thinking about getting the G303.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00TKFD51M/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

df


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Im playing CSGO and for some reason every once in a while the mouse goes crazy and points somewhere completely random in the sky or something

probably only happens once like every 5 or 10 minutes not a huge deal but still annoying

is that what you guys are talking about ? Any way to prevent this ?


----------



## qsxcv

did you install the 8/31 firmware update?


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

df


----------



## aayman_farzand

I think that's the rattle problem a lot of us had. Get it replaced.

Edit: Get it replaced through Logitech RMA rather than Amazon, they're aware of the issue and I think they have a non-defective batch ready for RMAs by now.


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

df


----------



## wareya

What 3366 did kohler use? Maybe his subjective feel is based on problems like this.

I wouldn't put it past preference bias until something else comes clear though. I just want to see the silly arguments that he drags himself into stop


----------



## qsxcv

g502
did the g502 also have the lens rattle issue? well it's harder to notice since the wheel rattle if you shake it


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> I remember seeing a post awhile ago demonstrating that the G303 would "snap back" for that poster when drawing lines in MSpaint.
> 
> As you can see from this image, I'm having the same problem:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the latest firmware to my knowledge, and I'm using the "factory default" preset for surface tuning.
> 
> Anyone else having this issue?


What's the s/n start with?


----------



## plyr

I think thats because on g502 the sensor and lens are alone screwed on the chassis, its not part of the main pcb, so its firmly placed, on g303 the lens are under a single pcb.


----------



## qsxcv

oh right the g502's design makes the sensor+lens press firmly against the shell's base


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> oh right the g502's design makes the sensor+lens press firmly against the shell's base


More than that, here's a pic when I opened mine:



Maybe the g303 has something similiar, I dont know...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> More than that, here's a pic when I opened mine:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the g303 has something similiar, I dont know...


Yea the G303 has a slot too but since its attached to the PCB it could "hover" over it and not lock into place.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Double sided tape to the rescue!


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

ddf


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> 1512


Yeah, 1513 was the one I first bought. It only had the issue after opening it up to do some tests with it. Last one I got started with 1514 and is fine so far. I wonder what new stock s/n start with now.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

where is the last firmware update at ?


----------



## Melan

In LGS settings, G303 > Check for updates.


----------



## iceskeleton

Sometimes LGS might not pick it up, so you can also find firmware updates on their website


----------



## popups

Braided cables...


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

fd


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> Whelp, obviously it'll void the warranty but the lens rattle issue seems so easy to fix that I'll give it a shot.
> 
> Hopefully this isn't going to be $45 down the drain!


If you do it very very carefully they wont know. Also its best that you have a can of black spray paint on hand. The black paint on the screws tend to chip away


----------



## brainzasif

Guys I did the tape trick and put a tape horizontal on the bottom of my mouse covering half way of the mouth of the sensor from the bottom side up and walla LOD is higher than before and the performance of the mouse is a lot more better. Doesn't miss or skip any more if I pick it up slightly during swipes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brainzasif

Will be posting in screenshots soon to further elaborate. Hope this will help a lot of users.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## qsxcv

yea good idea

i think the 3366 has a separate sensor for lod
if you cover the bottom prism up it may think that it's not lifted up even when it is


----------



## Ufasas

Hi, so i've got this mouse for 23 gbp from german ebay reseller, won the auction. Here in uk i would have paid around 50 to 70 for it : Q . First impressions, shape is weird, one of the more weirded, in q3 and csgo it takes time to grip it in comfortable way, but dayum all clicks are smooth as butter, pleasure to press, braided cable is comfortably flexible and gets stuck on the top of the mousepad of roccat sense, so i am trying to always keep cable on mousepad (40x28cm) so the top edge will not cut cable, also swapping mousepads to razer exactmat aluminium speed side, zowie gt-f speed large, last two works a treat without cutting cable, first is yet to test in game for mouse tracking performance. G303 feels like it lets me do quicker left / right swipes than g402, so i feel dizzier while fragging with g303 lol, but quicker and tougher for opponent. Love the weight of 87g, would tolerate up to ~110g.

Having g402 too. Can't say big difference between am010 and 3366, but i think i am fragging quicker with g303 and 3366 sensors, never reach speed over 2.7m/s with g402 at all, so mouse is great for me too, because very comfortable claw gripping.

Having g502, which i think to sell now, too bothered to make it lighter for the 2nd time. would choose g402 shape with 3366 sensor, or g303 over g502, due to heavier nature of g502 and some weird grip after few days of gaming, i love the free spin wheel though.

I've read like 140 pages here til i got bored







saw many people talking about uncomfortable shape, and well, sensor still allows you to frag so many opponents, and now i know i can swap g502 finally without buying g302! Using 800+1800 dpi levels, works a treat.

Would rank by being comfortable and letting frag best: g303, g402, then g502! Got all 3 mice for the price of just released g303, as for mice collector i'd say a steal : Q


----------



## Heimdallr

I don't like how i'm forced to grip the mouse to use the side buttons, i'm still not sure if i'm going to keep it or continue to use G502.


----------



## Pirx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heimdallr*
> 
> I don't like how i'm forced to grip the mouse to use the side buttons, i'm still not sure if i'm going to keep it or continue to use G502.


that's true, i move the whole mouse to the right when i press the side buttons.


----------



## JesperT

I bought the g303 when it was released and I have used it for quite a while now.

Some bad things about it :

* The mouse4/sidebutton have started to double click at single clicks sometimes which is very annoying.
* The crosshair spinning bug occurs for some surface calibrations.
* The cable covering is starting to wear off quite a lot. This makes the cable get stuck of sharper edges of some mousepads.
* The rather low lift off distance can sometimes be a problem.

Except for those drawbacks it is by far the best mosue I have ever tried, in my subjective opinion.
The sensor feels really responsive and the shape is just perfect. This is the first mouse I use for which is doesn't feel like I am about to drop it when I lift it.


----------



## m1hka

Don't know if somebody mentioned the new logi driver containing new firmware doesn't save LED settings onboard.
So if you care about it do not delete older version of driver.


----------



## dunnoe

G303 restocked on Amazon.

What type of mouse pad is recommended for G303? Hard pad or cloth pad?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brainzasif*
> 
> Will be posting in screenshots soon to further elaborate. Hope this will help a lot of users.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When?


----------



## Heimdallr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirx*
> 
> that's true, i move the whole mouse to the right when i press the side buttons.


Exactly what I mean, when i'm not trying to use the side buttons i find it comfortable to grip, even with the diamond shape.
Unfortunately I use side buttons a lot, I'll give it another try this evening.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dunnoe*
> 
> G303 restocked on Amazon.
> 
> What type of mouse pad is recommended for G303? Hard pad or cloth pad?


Whatever you like, tracks on anything.


----------



## CorruptBE

I'm getting used to the shape









Though still a bit weird in 2D desktop environment lol.

The shape works, but I stick with my comments about the "strong ridges".

For future revisions, smoothing out some of the harder shaped edges could seriously improve this shape. That and better skates tbh.


----------



## wareya

add smoothing, mouse improved


----------



## CorruptBE

Not that kind of smoothing









(feels nice not having to worry about sensor performance though)


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I'm getting used to the shape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though still a bit weird in 2D desktop environment lol.
> 
> The shape works, but I stick with my comments about the "strong ridges".
> 
> For future revisions, smoothing out some of the harder shaped edges could seriously improve this shape. That and better skates tbh.


Kind of sad how close it was to being good. Just a couple minor changes would make such a huge difference.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I wouldnt mind a MX300 shaped lighter G303 with slightly higher LOD


----------



## exitone

The g9x also had pretty similar ridges and IMO the shape of the g9x could be just as bad as the g303.

How opinions differ.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> The g9x also had pretty similar ridges and IMO the shape of the g9x could be just as bad as the g303.
> 
> How opinions differ.


Well the G9X has 4 different shapes: naked, precision grip, wide grip, and ID grip


----------



## qsxcv

what if the g302 and g303 were just experiments by logitech to see how much a sensor and rgb lighting would sell...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what if the g302 and g303 were just experiments by logitech to see how much a sensor and rgb lighting would sell...


I dont think so lol. Not with that shape.


----------



## qsxcv

maybe it's part of the plan...


----------



## darkfirebg

Just ordered this beauty and it comes later today, Can't wait to try it.
One question though, is there a new batch of g303 without the rattling issue? Or is it pure luck?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> One question though, is there a new batch of g303 without the rattling issue? Or is it pure luck?


Pure luck, I bought mine four months ago and it doesn't make any sound when shaken so maybe I was fortunate but some others here can attest, to a noisy G303 when moved.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Anybody experiencing more friction on mouse pad compared to DA for example? From a standstill,it's super hard to start moving. My mouse tilts a bit with movement, any input on this?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Pure luck, *I bought mine* four months ago and it doesn't make any sound when shaken so maybe I was fortunate but some others here can attest, to a noisy G303 when moved.


U DID WOT.

Btw, I bought G303 when it was released and it didn't rattle at all. Sadly it had a damaged cable so had to RMA.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Anybody experiencing more friction on mouse pad compared to DA for example? From a standstill,it's super hard to start moving. My mouse tilts a bit with movement, any input on this?


Probably because the mouse is very dense. Try using it on a harder mousepad


----------



## darkfirebg

Okay, the mouse came, and my initial impressions for this 70 Eur mouse, compared to my current driver - 20 Eur Bloody v5:


Very cheap packaging
Very cheap feel in the hand
Great responsiveness, tactile clicks, great sensor
Not so comfortable as someone using hybrid claw/fingertip would expect


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

ad


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Okay, the mouse came, and my initial impressions for this 70 Eur mouse, compared to my current driver - 20 Eur Bloody v5:
> 
> 
> Very cheap packaging
> Very cheap feel in the hand
> Great responsiveness, tactile clicks, great sensor
> Not so comfortable as someone using hybrid claw/fingertip would expect


1- Agree but I kinda buy the mouse, not the package.
2- Why, because it's light? I've put hands on an x-718bk and that feels cheap.
3- Hopefully everyone agrees here except Kohler
4- Shape is unrelated to price tag.


----------



## TriviumKM

So i bit the bullet and went through the RMA process as i read that Logitech was aware of the lens rattle issue. Just received it, removed it from the box and.....................the lens wobbles / rattles; serial is 1515. Really surprised Logitech hasn't fixed this issue already as i'm sure they know about it by now and it does affect tracking.

Oh well, just going to open it up and fix it myself as i really like the mouse.


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> 1- Agree but I kinda buy the mouse, not the package.
> 2- Why, because it's light? I've put hands on an x-718bk and that feels cheap.
> 3- Hopefully everyone agrees here except Kohler
> 4- Shape is unrelated to price tag.


Don't get me wrong, i didn't complain or anything. Just trying to let everyone (who decided to buy this product) know what to expect.
I really like the mouse and the way it moves and the tactile clicks are awesome.
You should check the bloody series though, they are far from perfect sensor wise, but the presentation(packaging) and the plastics feel much more expensive.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Mine does. It has the rattling problem. It's very audible even during standard mouse movement. People do bash on Razer's quality,but my DA feels studier than this G303.








Anyways ,I'm about to return it because of how hard it is to move it around on the mousepad. The mouse feet are not of good quality. Using cloth black pad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> So i bit the bullet and went through the RMA process as i read that Logitech was aware of the lens rattle issue. Just received it, removed it from the box and.....................the lens wobbles / rattles; serial is 1515. Really surprised Logitech hasn't fixed this issue already as i'm sure they know about it by now and it does affect tracking.
> 
> Oh well, just going to open it up and fix it myself as i really like the mouse.


RMA again?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Anybody experiencing more friction on mouse pad compared to DA for example? From a standstill,it's super hard to start moving.


Yep, hence why I mentioned it could use better skates.

I actually think the shape of the skates is a bigger problem then the material used.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I'm not a fan of their size either. My example was tilting slighty which made it god awful dor small adjustment in CS. You guys know how small hitboxes are







. DA glides like butter, micro adjestments are so ez.


----------



## Heimdallr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Okay, the mouse came, and my initial impressions for this 70 Eur mouse, compared to my current driver - 20 Eur Bloody v5:
> 
> 
> Very cheap packaging
> Very cheap feel in the hand
> Great responsiveness, tactile clicks, great sensor
> Not so comfortable as someone using hybrid claw/fingertip would expect


I don't agree with the first two points.
Packaging looks fine to me, sure there aren't stickers and other stuff you may find in a Razer mouse but i don't complain.
The feel is great honestly, I like that it is light and the plastic used i think it's very good, I also like the scrolling wheel (for example i didn't like the wheel on the G600 at all).


----------



## e4stw00t

Same here - no idea how you could perceive the mouse as feeling cheap - it has it's issues but build quality and used material is none of it.


----------



## darkfirebg

Well, this is my personal opinion. As said earlier, i'm comparing both plastic and packaging to my 20 eur Bloody V5(which by the way lasted me for 2 years so far, i'm just changing it because of the flawed sensor). Also i have few other mice, like mx518, original Deathadder and MX310. All of the mentioned mice plastics feel pricier(better) and have proven in time. Also i believe for the 70 EUR we spent on the mouse, the presentation should be much better (Like in Razer/Bloody case). Anyway it's a good, if not great mouse. I just believe that Logitech can do better for the price. And yes, scroll is good, especially compared to my Zowie EC1...


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its amazing how G303 looks the "best look" out of all of them but has the worst possible ergonomic shape.


I personally like a mouse with less things like 'to get used to'. G303 has one thingy only - shape. So it's basically perfect. You can't get new fingers, but you can get used to shape if you want, find sweet spot.

Got g303 7 days ago from a german reseller (23 british GBP! For fok sake, this is a steal, cheaper than some modern mice with great sensors but having a price like a new mechanical keyboard), and had a nice time testing it on evenings in csgo and q3 excessive mod, some qlive too, and i can say this mouse is replacing my both beloved g402 and g502 easily.

Finally i can say what i think and want to say about this mouse, which i was waiting patiently to get cheaper than any other mouse!

*Clicks - one of the fastest ever tried, other fast ones met were in rival and razer, now people crying in multiplayer games that i am a clicking cheater, +
*Cable - is alright, rubber would have worked too, so still +
*Wheel - i don't care much, does the job, +
*Feet - haven't tried g302, can't say much if those additional feet helping much, 0
*Sensor - godlike, mlt04 is finally destroyed, as it should be these days, old king has died, welcome a new king +
*Shape - awkward, i'd call it a small con, but reminds me a grip of r.a.t te, and i used this experience to get used to the rhomb shape in 7 days or less, -
*Glide - glides awesome is it razer exactmat aluminium speed side, gt-f zowie spawn hard cloth or roccat sense soft slim cloth, +
*Grip - love that you can use claw grip and finger tip, but staying with claw grip, and people are getting fragged without mercy. +
*Addition of more buttons - less is better this time, not hitting accidently some random buttons, where i like to hit often on other mice, because my hands shaking like crazy, and not overthinking about stuff i don't need to think during gaming online, +

7+, 1 -, 1 zero, great mouse among all 3 - g402 g502 g303 - g303 is the king


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> I personally like a mouse with less things like 'to get used to'. G303 has one thingy only - shape. So it's basically perfect. You can't get new fingers, but you can get used to shape if you want, find sweet spot.
> 
> Got g303 7 days ago from a german reseller (23 british GBP! For fok sake, this is a steal, cheaper than some modern mice with great sensors but having a price like a new mechanical keyboard), and had a nice time testing it on evenings in csgo and q3 excessive mod, some qlive too, and i can say this mouse is replacing my both beloved g402 and g502 easily.
> 
> Finally i can say what i think and want to say about this mouse, which i was waiting patiently to get cheaper than any other mouse!
> 
> *Clicks - one of the fastest ever tried, other fast ones met were in rival and razer, now people crying in multiplayer games that i am a clicking cheater, +
> *Cable - is alright, rubber would have worked too, so still +
> *Wheel - i don't care much, does the job, +
> *Feet - haven't tried g302, can't say much if those additional feet helping much, 0
> *Sensor - godlike, mlt04 is finally destroyed, as it should be these days, old king has died, welcome a new king +
> *Shape - awkward, i'd call it a small con, but reminds me a grip of r.a.t te, and i used this experience to get used to the rhomb shape in 7 days or less, -
> *Glide - glides awesome is it razer exactmat aluminium speed side, gt-f zowie spawn hard cloth or roccat sense soft slim cloth, +
> *Grip - love that you can use claw grip and finger tip, but staying with claw grip, and people are getting fragged without mercy. +
> *Addition of more buttons - less is better this time, not hitting accidently some random buttons, where i like to hit often on other mice, because my hands shaking like crazy, and not overthinking about stuff i don't need to think during gaming online, +
> 
> 7+, 1 -, 1 zero, great mouse among all 3 - g402 g502 g303 - g303 is the king


Yes,but that's your personal experience. For me,it was a mouse with a lot of things to get used to. I had to switch from Palm grip to claw,from my super nice scroll wheel to this POS(which was mine,could've been faulty but was god awful), from a butter glide to a lot of friction . Buttons felt perfect,very simular to the DA's,though with a better feel. I could feel every click,yet spam like a madman.
The sensor for me felt too... crisp,choppy,idk how to call it exactly. Using 1000dpi ,it felt not as smooth and easily controlled as the DA's . Maybe that's the smoothing you guys talk about of the DA 2013? IDK, I prefer it. G303 felt amazing on 400dpi ,much better than on 1000dpi,for unexplainable reason to me. Build quality wasn't what I expected from 70 euro mouse either. Side button(back one) was making weird noise if I cross my finger across it,rattling lens like crazy. Cable wasn't much flexible, but I have a bungee so I don't care about that.


----------



## bond10

oh my god this shape is dreadfully bad. I cannot get used to it after 5 days. But at the same time, I cannot go back to a sensor with any form of smoothing (S3988, 3310) or massive button lag (MLT04 mice, kinzu v2/v3). I will play through the pain.


----------



## Sencha

It's like a mouse version of a NES pad lol


----------



## hotwheels1997

Guys,coming from a DA,is the "raw" feeling of the sensor normal? It doesn't feel as smooth as my DA. I use 1000dpi which made it a bit too "choppy" . Is that the zero smoothing sensor y'all talking about? It did feel weird,but good.
On another topic,does the Avago 3310 in the Zowie EC2-A feel like the sensor in the G303 or more like the smoother DA mouse movement?


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Guys,coming from a DA,is the "raw" feeling of the sensor normal? It doesn't feel as smooth as my DA. I use 1000dpi which made it a bit too "choppy" . Is that the zero smoothing sensor y'all talking about? It did feel weird,but good.
> On another topic,does the Avago 3310 in the Zowie EC2-A feel like the sensor in the G303 or more like the smoother DA mouse movement?


All 3310 implementations and S3988 feel the same to me. They all have this minor lag which makes the mouse movement feel floaty (as if my mouse is moving underwater or against the wind). The 3366 (just like the MLT04) just snaps to the spot you want to go to, it's instant and magical.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> All 3310 implementations and S3988 feel the same to me. They all have this minor lag which makes the mouse movement feel floaty (as if my mouse is moving underwater or against the wind). The 3366 (just like the MLT04) just snaps to the spot you want to go to, it's instant and magical.


I do not feel lag compared DA-G303. A floaty feeling,perhaps, just smoother,makes smoother movements and all. The 3366 was very sharp,not as smooth. Idk which one I prefer. Mouse feet was the deal breaker for me ,sensor could be better,DA makes me aim better since I'm used to it.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I do not feel lag compared DA-G303. A floaty feeling,perhaps, just smoother,makes smoother movements and all. The 3366 was very sharp,not as smooth. Idk which one I prefer. Mouse feet was the deal breaker for me ,sensor could be better,DA makes me aim better since I'm used to it.


You might not be sensitive to it because you probably didn't use an MLT04 mouse for a long time. A gamer who's used CRTs and Intellimice for 10 years can tell a huge difference with a 144hz 1ms LCD and a DA2013/Zowie mouse.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> You might not be sensitive to it because you probably didn't use an MLT04 mouse for a long time. A gamer who's used CRTs and Intellimice for 10 years can tell a huge difference with a 144hz 1ms LCD and a DA2013/Zowie mouse.


I have been gaming for less than 5 years,i'm 17 . I've only had a DA 2013 as a gaming mouse,but have test a handful. G303 ,DA, Diamonback,Perixx, Imperator etc.
G303 has been feeling the most precise/sharp. I think sharp is the best way to describe it. Not as smooth as the DA,it feels more as my 5$ mouse tbh,sharp ,no smoothness at all. I do have a 60hz monitor only,with 5-7ms response . It's a small one as well,it's my worst peripheral, especially since I have bad eyesight and have big issues spotting enemies. Still global though


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> great mouse among all 3 - g402 g502 g303 - g303 is the king


Ahhh these youngsters, they all think they have found the PERFECT Mouse, hope you still love it after it deforms your right hand into an aging pretzel within a few years time







.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Ahhh these youngsters, they all think they have found the PERFECT Mouse, hope you still love it after it deforms your right hand into an aging pretzel within a few years time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Cause everyone is the same? I do wonder, since I look like I'm on steroids because I lifted my G502 so much, before that I had noodle arms with my WMO.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Well the G9X has 4 different shapes: naked, precision grip, wide grip, and ID grip


Without the grip it's great I guess but it seemed much easier to break (the clicks could snap off?) and the side buttons became hard to press lol.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Is there any mouse thats better than the g303 sensor wise or performance wise ?

I love the g303 just wondering.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> Is there any mouse thats better than the g303 sensor wise or performance wise ?
> 
> I love the g303 just wondering.


G303 is the best on paper, too bad the shape makes it unusable for me


----------



## wareya

I would use a g502 if it weren't so incredibly heavy


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Ahhh these youngsters, they all think they have found the PERFECT Mouse, hope you still love it after it deforms your right hand into an aging pretzel within a few years time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


My hand deformed in a matter of months


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Ive asked this before but is there any difference between 400 DPI and 2.1 sens

or like 1000 DPI and 0.84 which is the equivalent sens ?


----------



## wareya

2.1 at 400 is the same as 0.84 at 1000


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> Ive asked this before but is there any difference between 400 DPI and 2.1 sens
> 
> or like 1000 DPI and 0.84 which is the equivalent sens ?


Yes,I'm using 1000dpi @ 0.8 = 400dpi @ 2


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> Ive asked this before but is there any difference between 400 DPI and 2.1 sens
> 
> or like 1000 DPI and 0.84 which is the equivalent sens ?


Same distance to move your mouse from A to B but the higher DPI/lower sens combo gives more intermediate aiming points. Benefits are debatable.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Same distance to move your mouse from A to B but the higher DPI/lower sens combo gives more intermediate aiming points. Benefits are debatable.


Definitely debatable, higher DPI makes the sensor more sensitive(hence sensitivity) to unwanted micro movements you do with your hand,which can throw your aim off,especially while holding an angle. That's the case for me, I have to reset my crosshair by lifting mouse and readjusting because I often drift off a bit.


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Same distance to move your mouse from A to B but the higher DPI/lower sens combo gives more intermediate aiming points. Benefits are debatable.


But it's never point A to point B, it is point A.3838472 to point B.3289283.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> But it's never point A to point B, it is point A.3838472 to point B.3289283.


Kind of a minor detail though.


----------



## johnsamuels

Not minor at all. You aim to hit stuff, if you need to aim at point A.334 and the mouse rounds it off to point A.3 or A.4 and that is a miss in game, that is not at all minor.

You mentioned intermediate aiming points but it depends on what the game requires.


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Definitely debatable, higher DPI makes the sensor more sensitive(hence sensitivity) to unwanted micro movements you do with your hand,which can throw your aim off,especially while holding an angle. That's the case for me, I have to reset my crosshair by lifting mouse and readjusting because I often drift off a bit.


What? So you want a mouse without smoothing, but also one that won't pick up all the movements of your hand?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> But it's never point A to point B, it is point A.3838472 to point B.3289283.


Whats the point if you cant even see it?


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Whats the point if you cant even see it?


see post #3961


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> see post #3961


Whatever your sensitivity its going to round off anyways


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Whatever your sensitivity its going to round off anyways


Round off at what point?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Unless your in game sensitivity is high enough where you're more 0.5 pixels (skipping pixels) off there is no reason to use high dpi/low sens.


----------



## wareya

pixel skipping as such literally doesn't exist in 3d games

the same general concept applies but it's not the same


----------



## qsxcv

for some reason, there's the perception that restricting your view to a coarse imaginary grid is superior to restricting it to a finer imaginary grid


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for some reason, there's the perception that restricting your view to a coarse imaginary grid is superior to restricting it to a finer imaginary grid


Exactly!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> pixel skipping as such literally doesn't exist in 3d games


Something similar happens though when 1 angle of movement translates to a movement bigger then 1 pixel on your monitor aka it "feels" similar.

It can be managed when it's within reasonable limits, but sensitivity 6 on 1080p for instance... well that feels choppy... and it isn't choppy, it's just moving in bigger steps (angles), it's just a perceived behavior by the end user.


----------



## wareya

thing is, the common recommendation is that "if you don't skip pixels, you don't need any more precision"

This is just completely wrong in 3d games and more precision is always more precision. There are no pixels for which there to be no precision below. There is only more and more precision. High DPIs + lower sensitivities = more possible locations for you to aim at.

The actual problem is that so many sensors use interpolation that magnifies jitter to get high DPIs, and/or use smoothing to reduce that jitter, or use some sort of acceleration in firmware to emulate having a higher DPI than the sensor is actually giving them (which means slow movements get dampened).

If you're using a 3310 or 3366 then using high DPIs is quite the same as using low DPIs as far as we're currently aware.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> My hand deformed in a matter of months


So how deformed your hand is? Lol


----------



## Weltgeist

This is my first post, so hi everybody.

@wareya
Does this mean that 12000 dpi on the G303 and a CS:GO sens of 0,08 is better or more precise than 950/1000 dpi and a sens of 1,0?

Sorry for my english. I am from Germany and my english is really bad.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> thing is, the common recommendation is that "if you don't skip pixels, you don't need any more precision"
> 
> This is just completely wrong in 3d games and more precision is always more precision. There are no pixels for which there to be no precision below. There is only more and more precision. High DPIs + lower sensitivities = more possible locations for you to aim at.
> 
> The actual problem is that so many sensors use interpolation that magnifies jitter to get high DPIs, and/or use smoothing to reduce that jitter, or use some sort of acceleration in firmware to emulate having a higher DPI than the sensor is actually giving them (which means slow movements get dampened).
> 
> If you're using a 3310 or 3366 then using high DPIs is quite the same as using low DPIs as far as we're currently aware.


That and sometimes more DPI translates to a reduction in stability when making movements, but that is a human limitation









Atm I think it's wise for every newer player to go with 800 dpi as a minimum though, most mice perform good enough or well on this step nowadays. The known pro's just stick what they're used to. Considering some of these guys have played for over a decade... well it makes sense they stick with what works.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Weltgeist*
> 
> @wareya
> Does this mean that 12000 dpi on the G303 and a CS:GO sens of 0,08 is better or more precise than 950/1000 dpi and a sens of 1,0?


Theoretically, yes.... But I don't know of a sensor that runs at 12000 with the same quality as at 800 or even 1600 DPI


----------



## Weltgeist

Okay, thanks for the answer!


----------



## qsxcv

issues with high dpi are
1. some sensors increase smoothing at higher dpis (9800, 3988, g402/g302's am010 but negligibly)
2. possible clipping issues leading to neg accel (e.g. 3090 has lower malfunction speed at 4000dpi due to 8bit registers, or m_rawinput 0 cursor-hitting-side-of-screen issues)
3. more jitter _relative to the size of a count_. in 3d games you drop your in-game sens to compensate and it doesn't matter at all unless you play with aa off and like to stare at individual pixels
4. hard to control 2d UIs since our hands aren't designed to move stuff precisely on the micron level.

for 3366, 1 isn't an issue
if you use rinput.exe or m_rawinput 1 with a modern sensor (i.e. anything not 3090 with decent firmware) without 8bit issues, then 2 isn't an issue

the argument that lower-dpi has less jitter and is therefore better is silly. this sort of argument is akin to saying a scale which rounds weight to the nearest 10lb is more accurate than one which displays the weight with 0.01lb precision but has jitter at the last few digits. the sensor internally has the same amount of jitter at any dpi, but at lower dpi it's just that the quantization masks it.


----------



## wareya

Interpolation on the correlation field (which is something that is done in certain mice) can increase the actual jitter per movement because the interpolation essentially makes a guess about where the noise floor is when it adds new data. It also functions worse when the image sensor picks up a lot of parallax between movements because the total difference between sensor images (i.e. noise floor) is higher in such a situation, and the interpolation function is thus stupider still.

But if the sensor doesn't use interpolation to achieve higher DPIs then it's not a problem.


----------



## qsxcv

yea if it does something like the windows sens slider at 7/11 then it could definitely be worse... though i doubt it's noticeable at 7000dpi or whatever, outside of mspaint


----------



## wareya

well you know that the sensor has to keep some kind of buffer of unsent data because otherwise extremely slow speeds would fail to register anything at all, or you would get weird aliasing problems at speed

if that buffer hits a point where 1 level of difference between images results in 1 pixel output, a perfectly still mouse would be sending outputs due to sensor image noise

so for sure they need to make 4 or 16 or even more levels of image difference correspond to 1 pixel of output, which reduces the sensitivity, much like 4/11 or 3/11 on the windows slider

if you went above that it would start to move even when the sensor is still

so they have two choices: a deadzone, which hurts responsiveness slightly, versus finding a way to have more levels of image difference

it turns out you can invent levels of image difference by interpolating the sensor image data, but this is computationally expensive if you're going to use a function that plays well with sampling theorem and is also correlation friendly

so (at least sometimes, and I've seen this in patents) they interpolate the correlation array instead, using a function purpose built for interpolating correlation arrays

this gives them more correlation results from which to divine the abstract movement value, but because interpolation essentially makes a guess about where the noise floor is, it introduces more jitter.

it's basically a smarter way of multiplying the strength of movements, basically an attempt to "un-quantize" data by doing the equivalent of doing fractional amounts of image shifting for comparisons, but as a result it adds more noise because interpolation always introduces artefacts (unless you have infinite samples yadda yadda) -- It's just not the kind of artefact that shows up when the correlation array is perfectly centered (i.e. mouse is sitting still).


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> So how deformed your hand is? Lol


I believe I posted a photo in another thread but I'll post one here...
Swollen middle finger and ring finger joints. Middle finger is bent due to edge. All in 5 months of osu.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Is playing at 1440x1080 no scaling less efficient than just playing on 1080p if thats my monitors native res ? Fullscreen ?

also LOL whats the verdict you guys get really confusing when I ask this but please keep answer simple

should I 1000 DPI .8 sens
or 400 dpi 2.1 sens

I just want it to be as reliable and efficient as possible


----------



## TriviumKM

How in the world did it swell and bend your middle finger?!
Do you use your middle finger to grip the side of the mouse?


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> well you know that the sensor has to keep some kind of buffer of unsent data because otherwise extremely slow speeds would fail to register anything at all, or you would get weird aliasing problems at speed
> 
> if that buffer hits a point where 1 level of difference between images results in 1 pixel output, a perfectly still mouse would be sending outputs due to sensor image noise
> 
> so for sure they need to make 4 or 16 or even more levels of image difference correspond to 1 pixel of output, which reduces the sensitivity, much like 4/11 or 3/11 on the windows slider
> 
> if you went above that it would start to move even when the sensor is still
> 
> so they have two choices: a deadzone, which hurts responsiveness slightly, versus finding a way to have more levels of image difference
> 
> it turns out you can invent levels of image difference by interpolating the sensor image data, but this is computationally expensive if you're going to use a function that plays well with sampling theorem and is also correlation friendly
> 
> so (at least sometimes, and I've seen this in patents) they interpolate the correlation array instead, using a function purpose built for interpolating correlation arrays
> 
> this gives them more correlation results from which to divine the abstract movement value, but because interpolation essentially makes a guess about where the noise floor is, it introduces more jitter.
> 
> it's basically a smarter way of multiplying the strength of movements, basically an attempt to "un-quantize" data by doing the equivalent of doing fractional amounts of image shifting for comparisons, but as a result it adds more noise because interpolation always introduces artefacts (unless you have infinite samples yadda yadda) -- It's just not the kind of artefact that shows up when the correlation array is perfectly centered (i.e. mouse is sitting still).


I'm not sure I understood any of what you just said....


----------



## qsxcv

well 8/11 windows sens slider doesn't introduce artifacts...


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I believe I posted a photo in another thread but I'll post one here...
> Swollen middle finger and ring finger joints. Middle finger is bent due to edge. All in 5 months of osu.


That has little to do with 302/303 shape. Go see a doctor.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> So how deformed your hand is? Lol
> 
> 
> 
> I believe I posted a photo in another thread but I'll post one here...
> Swollen middle finger and ring finger joints. Middle finger is bent due to edge. All in 5 months of osu.
Click to expand...

DAMN real physical evidence that the G303 deforms your hand into a rabid, arthritic type, within my age category







.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well 8/11 windows sens slider doesn't introduce artifacts...


but it introduces pixel skipping, which is technically aliasing

the sensor has more data about the similarities of more positions than the computer receives as cursor movements, so it can switch out pixel skipping for jitter, or reduce jitter at a standstill in return for increased jitter while moving


----------



## qsxcv

i mean in 3d games, exactly multiplying counts by 2 does absolutely nothing provided you drop the in-game sens by the same factor of 2


----------



## wareya

indeed


----------



## darkfirebg

I've been using the G303 for few days now, and got used to it quite quickly to be honest.
I feel much more confident with my aim in CS GO now and i've raised my ESEA RWS by 1.5 (determined after 25 ESEA pugs).
The clicks are noticeably more responsive then any other mouse i've ever played with and the sensor is almost perfect, although there are still some situations where i don't feel it to be flawless, but this might be because of the FPS drops i get sometimes.
Overall - best mouse I've ever used. Highly recommended.


----------



## Ufasas

Dunno changed over 25 mice with different awkward shapes over the last 2 years, my hand should be broken by this logic, but still stays the same

Also don't think i found perfect mouse, there will never be perfect, only nearly perfect, there always will be something you don't like about mouse


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> I've been using the G303 for few days now, and got used to it quite quickly to be honest.
> I feel much more confident with my aim in CS GO now and i've raised my ESEA RWS by 1.5 (determined after 25 ESEA pugs).
> The clicks are noticeably more responsive then any other mouse i've ever played with and the sensor is almost perfect, although there are still some situations where i don't feel it to be flawless, but this might be because of the FPS drops i get sometimes.
> Overall - best mouse I've ever used. Highly recommended.


Previous mouse?


----------



## darkfirebg

I've been using both Zowie EC1 EVO and Bloody V5 during the past year.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> How in the world did it swell and bend your middle finger?!
> Do you use your middle finger to grip the side of the mouse?


I have it slightly bent on top to have a better fingertip grip because the diamond shape does not give me good grip by squeezing it with my ring and pinky. The mouse would start sliding into the pit of my hand.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That has little to do with 302/303 shape. Go see a doctor.


Wasnt there before the G302/G303 :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> DAMN real physical evidence that the G303 deforms your hand into a rabid, arthritic type, within my age category
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


>:/ Im not that old >_< Im still growing!!!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I believe I posted a photo in another thread but I'll post one here...
> Swollen middle finger and ring finger joints. Middle finger is bent due to edge. All in 5 months of osu.


You can't say I didn't warn you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I already gave an unbiased opinion on the G303.
> 
> *I would advise against giving his son a G302 or G303 because it might lead to an injury.*
> 
> A G100S is a decent option. It's not flashy though.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2370_30#post_23839828
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2400_30#post_23846861
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2490_30#post_23864058
http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1770_30#post_24064002
http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1770_30#post_24064109

Never force yourself to use a G302 or G303 just for the sensor. If you feel discomfort or pain discontinue use immediately and get a refund (so you don't fall into temptation as it sits there whispering to about how good the sensor is).


----------



## Melan

Windows 10 overclocked my 303 polling apparently. If you thought 1khz is uncontrollable, try 5.


----------



## qsxcv

mousetester interval plots?


----------



## Melan

Everything reports that polling, even osu.


----------



## Maximillion

what the...


----------



## Melan

500hz peaks at 1khz. 1khz peaks at 2khz etc. Even 125hz peaks at 250.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> You can't say I didn't warn you.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2370_30#post_23839828
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2400_30#post_23846861
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2490_30#post_23864058
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1770_30#post_24064002
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/1770_30#post_24064109
> 
> Never force yourself to use a G302 or G303 just for the sensor. If you feel discomfort or pain discontinue use immediately and get a refund (so you don't fall into temptation as it sits there whispering to about how good the sensor is).


:CCCC I want to stick it in a good mouse shell one day tho


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Also my hand only hurts if I use the G302/G303. It doesn't for any other reasonable mouse shape


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Windows 10 overclocked my 303 polling apparently. If you thought 1khz is uncontrollable, try 5.


How did you manage that?


----------



## Melan

By installing W10 Enterprise LTSB, aaaaand nothing else. System was idle too. This "overdrive" just kicks in whenever the hell it wants.

I tried removing OC, disabling HPET, beta chipset drivers etc. Still happens.

Edit: This happens regardless of USB 2 or 3.


----------



## Melan

Extra graph


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Extra graph


Does that happen with other nice too? Like say a WMO?


----------



## Melan

Idk, don't have a WMO.


----------



## Melan

I found a culprit. Disabled all the HID-compliant entries in device manager and it no longer goes into overdrive.

Nope. Still goes into overdrive if left long enough. Hell, even safe mode is nuts. 1.5ms fluctuations on 1khz. Mobo drivers are utter poop.

Zowie FK1 @ 500hz


Logitech MX500 @ 125hz


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I found a culprit. Disabled all the HID-compliant entries in device manager and it no longer goes into overdrive.
> 
> Nope. Still goes into overdrive if left long enough. Hell, even safe mode is nuts. 1.5ms fluctuations on 1khz. Mobo drivers are utter poop.
> 
> Zowie FK1 @ 500hz
> 
> 
> Logitech MX500 @ 125hz


Maybe try to reinstall? First time i've heard of this issue.


----------



## Melan

Nah, I've had enough of these W10 shenanigans. I'll leave this until TH2 gets deployed, hopefully fixing USB and sticky corners between monitors. Enterprise is such a nice, clean OS though. Time to swap the SSD.


----------



## qsxcv

....what???
what does xcounts look like?


----------



## Melan

Like normal. I've installed BF3 and tried playing it with this stuff. It literally doubles my CPI. Disabling raw input makes everything ok again though.

Edit: I guess I talked too soon. Tried getting more graphs and whaddyaknow... it went fubar.


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Never force yourself to use a G302 or G303 just for the sensor. If you feel discomfort or pain discontinue use immediately and get a refund (so you don't fall into temptation as it sits there whispering to about how good the sensor is).


Hey popups, I'm in the market for an accurate and ergonomic gaming mouse for CS:GO. Do you have a recommendation for something a little more comfortable than the G303?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Guys,have you noticed yourself switching grip between games - windows? In games, I have one grip (something like claw) and in windows i literally move the mouse only with fingers ,I think it's called a fingertip grip. Doing so really destroys any grip consistency I feel. I use 1000dpi so I need 3cm to go from one corner of monitor to another, not big movements required,if any.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Hey popups, I'm in the market for an accurate and ergonomic gaming mouse for CS:GO. Do you have a recommendation for something a little more comfortable than the G303?


I would recommend a Zowie EC2-A since you asked for ergonomic.


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I would recommend a Zowie EC2-A since you asked for ergonomic.


Thanks!


----------



## pinobot

In Windows i use the top half of the mousemat (45cm high) and rest my arm on the mat. I hold the mouse using a sort of palmgrip where i rest the right side of my palm on the mouse. My thumb is underneath between the front and rear thumb button.
In games i use the bottom half of the mousemat and move my thumb down to underneath the back thumb button. I hold it using fingertip. The mouse kinda bounces between the left and right side of my palm just barely touching it, turning my mouse when sweeping left and right to keep it vertically alligned.
A kind of a weird mouse guy.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Does that happen with other nice too? Like say a WMO?












I was going to say that, but I figured he didn't have an MLT-04 mouse. I see where you are going with that though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Hey popups, I'm in the market for an accurate and ergonomic gaming mouse for CS:GO. Do you have a recommendation for something a little more comfortable than the G303?


Depends on what you want need. Do you need software, high malfunction speed, extra buttons?

There's the Rival, DeathAdder, EC1/2, G402, etc.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Like normal. I've installed BF3 and tried playing it with this stuff. It literally doubles my CPI. Disabling raw input makes everything ok again though.
> 
> Edit: I guess I talked too soon. Tried getting more graphs and whaddyaknow... it went fubar.


could you upload a log?


----------



## Melan

I already swapped the drives and re-purposed it. I was supposed to just save the data and nuke it, but took the liberty of checking if W10 is good yet (which is still pretty bad).

Maybe next time I'll get that graph porn for you. There's nothing to look at really, it's just yet another case of terribad driver support of rushed OS.


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Depends on what you want need. Do you need software, high malfunction speed, extra buttons?
> 
> There's the Rival, DeathAdder, EC1/2, G402, etc.


Don't think I need anything more than a comfortable mouse with a decent sensor. I've been happy enough with my DeathAdder, but middle mouse broke on me, so I need a replacement. I thought I might try something a little different just for the hell of it. I might want something a little lighter; the DA feels a bit heavy to me.

I've also been getting a little bit of soreness in my forearm after playing Counter-Strike lately, but I don't know if a new mouse could help that, or if I just need to change my technique, or take a break.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Never force yourself to use a G302 or G303 just for the sensor. If you feel discomfort or pain discontinue use immediately and get a refund (so you don't fall into temptation as it sits there whispering to about how good the sensor is).


This should be a health warning stuck onto every retail package belonging to the G302/303 series







.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Don't think I need anything more than a comfortable mouse with a decent sensor. I've been happy enough with my DeathAdder, but middle mouse broke on me, so I need a replacement. I thought I might try something a little different just for the hell of it. I might want something a little lighter; the DA feels a bit heavy to me.
> 
> I've also been getting a little bit of soreness in my forearm after playing Counter-Strike lately, but I don't know if a new mouse could help that, or if I just need to change my technique, or take a break.


EC2-A,literally a smaller DA with Avago 3310. Side buttons are mushy though, main buttons are harder to click. Weight is 87g, around 15g less than the DA.
It's a mouse i'm considering as well, coming from a DA.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Don't think I need anything more than a comfortable mouse with a decent sensor. I've been happy enough with my DeathAdder, but middle mouse broke on me, so I need a replacement. I thought I might try something a little different just for the hell of it. I might want something a little lighter; the DA feels a bit heavy to me.
> 
> I've also been getting a little bit of soreness in my forearm after playing Counter-Strike lately, but I don't know if a new mouse could help that, or if I just need to change my technique, or take a break.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

After really testing both I SWEAR that 400 dpi 2.1 is more consistent and accurate overall than 1000 dpi .8


----------



## CorruptBE

You're most likely more consistent.

At 2.1 I also see no real reason for you to increase your DPI. Choppy mouse feeling due to 1 angle of movement being bigger then a pixel on your monitor will only start occurring somewhere around 2.7'ish sensitivity at 1080p (near the crosshair) if I recall correctly.


----------



## qsxcv

3.617 actually
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10QvFYx5IMb1I2vqYkYGl5KKZFdza819n3e6s4IYFiZg/edit#gid=0


----------



## wareya

pixel density near the center of the screen is tighter than near the edges (or angle density rather)

does this math take that into account?


----------



## qsxcv

actually its the opposite, at edges, each pixel covers a smaller angle

thats for screen center. multiply by .6 for left/right edges for 16:9 resolutions


----------



## wareya

yeah I tried correcting myself by saying angle density


----------



## edward236

Hello everyone
I have a problem:
FactoryDefault = "SURFACE-TUNED" OFF??
I want to completely turn off "SURFACE-TUNED"...


----------



## Melan

If it's at factory default, it's off.


----------



## edward236

Thank you!!


----------



## argentum

Love the sensor, got even used to the shape but the thing I absolutely hate is the cable. It is stiff, braided and all kinds of awful. Zowie ZA11 has replaced G303 as my daily rat.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *argentum*
> 
> Love the sensor, got even used to the shape but the thing I absolutely hate is the cable. It is stiff, braided and all kinds of awful. Zowie ZA11 has replaced G303 as my daily rat.


Replace the cable with 302







problem solved


----------



## Melan

302 cable is way more stiff.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Why not go with the WMO cable?


----------



## johnsamuels

In any case the cable is easy to change, so that shouldn't stop you using it. I'm glad to hear some can get used to the shape, might try it myself.


----------



## LunaTiC123

It's the shape that "bad" ? I'd imagine it's fine for claw griping even with 20cm hands right ?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaTiC123*
> 
> It's the shape that "bad" ? I'd imagine it's fine for claw griping even with 20cm hands right ?


Tbh I think it works better for normal-large hands . I have a small hand(17.5cm) and my thumb hits the edge,where the diamond shape gets formed. It's a big discomfort. Friends with longer fingers have no issues.


----------



## navjack27

i just got mine today. replaced my roccat tyon. everything feels more accurate so far. i'm about to play some csgo in a bit and i'll report how much better that feels. i did do a bot match and deathmatch and things feel more predictable.


----------



## Huanzoo

if i order from amazon what are the chances of me getting one with lens rattle?


----------



## navjack27

mines from amazon, no rattle at all YET. but i am looking out for it


----------



## iceskeleton

just got it here in aus, s/n started with 1528
how audible is the rattle suppose to be? I just notice some very faint noise when moving it to notice if I have this issue. It was nothing like some youtube video I saw of it


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> just got it here in aus, s/n started with 1528
> how audible is the rattle suppose to be? I just notice some very faint noise when moving it to notice if I have this issue. It was nothing like some youtube video I saw of it


Mine was very audible. To the point where I could hear it,even with 10% music on.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Mine was very audible. To the point where I could hear it,even with 10% music on.


guess no rattle for mine then

on an unrelated note, it definitely is an upgrade from the g302 (surprise). With surface tuning on my qck+, the LOD is nice and low and I don't malfunction above 2.7 m/s like the g302









I don't look at the ground anymore in csgo when moving quickly with flicks


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> guess no rattle for mine then
> 
> on an unrelated note, it definitely is an upgrade from the g302 (surprise). With surface tuning on my qck+, the LOD is nice and low and I don't malfunction above 2.7 m/s like the g302
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't look at the ground anymore in csgo when moving quickly with flicks


Glad you like it. I might pick it up again,not so sure.


----------



## Deadeye

Ordered mine, will get it tomorrow, was just curious to try it out lol, like so many other mice i use...

Will post back on my findings, but i rarely am here, so send me txt on battlelog if any one is interested.


----------



## fuzzybass

Regarding the "lens rattle"... make sure it isn't the noise of your scroll wheel moving back and forth when you do hear some sort of "rattle".


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Regarding the "lens rattle"... make sure it isn't the noise of your scroll wheel moving back and forth when you do hear some sort of "rattle".


I did isolate all other possible objects that can produce the rattle. I did narrow it down to the lens. I have a big temptation to buy the mouse again ,didn't get too comfortable with the shape(wasn't too bad though) ,but I used it only for 2 days.


----------



## fuzzybass

That sucks...

Regarding the shape, you'll get used to it. I've been pretty vocal about hating the shape of the mouse, but I forced myself to use it, and now I'm beginning to like it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> That sucks...
> 
> Regarding the shape, you'll get used to it. I've been pretty vocal about hating the shape of the mouse, but I forced myself to use it, and now I'm beginning to like it.


I have a rather small hand ,measuring at 17.5cm and my current DA is definitely overwhelming at times. The grip-related issue I had with the G303 for the small period of time I used it, my thumb was hitting the edge on the left side. I had to either claw-form my finger,or move my mouse/grip a bit. Anyone with simular experience?


----------



## fuzzybass

I'm pretty much completely claw/fingertip gripping it. If you're palm-grip user, yea, I can imagine you'd have a harder time with it, unfortunately.


----------



## colabang

hi guys, Currently i have the mionix avior 7000. Im really happy with the mouse except the update support is really bad. the Avior has the 3310 sensor. Is it worth to buy this mouse because of the new sensor ? And what is the lod on this mouse without tuning it ?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *colabang*
> 
> hi guys, Currently i have the mionix avior 7000. Im really happy with the mouse except the update support is really bad. the Avior has the 3310 sensor. Is it worth to buy this mouse because of the new sensor ? And what is the lod on this mouse without tuning it ?


Flash the newest beta firmware on it and the avior 7k sensor is golden.


----------



## dEklaN

aaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## darkfirebg

Hello again guys, just wanted to share this link. It's info how to customize both zones colors and additionally you can assign different effects to each of them. Sorry if it's already known and Enjoy.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

After doing qscv's top shell mod I can actually use my G303 again. Now I just have to buy mouse skates for it... which Hyperglides model do you guys think would work best for it?


----------



## Melan

Custom built ones. Try emailing them.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Custom built ones. Try emailing them.


I should have mentioned without breaking the bank.


----------



## Melan

It won't cost you any more than normal hyperglides.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Oh?


----------



## Melan

That is if they got whatever required for making those, of course. Last time I asked (this summer) they had machinery for G502 glides but not for G303.

I'm in need for those skates as well, so I sent them an email.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That is if they got whatever required for making those, of course. Last time I asked (this summer) they had machinery for G502 glides but not for G303.
> 
> I'm in need for those skates as well, so I sent them an email.


Did they reply yet?


----------



## Azmath

Anyone tested this mouse with Zowie G-SR pad? Are there any problems? I have the DG version of G-SR, just bought it and i like it too much to go back to the QcK Heavy again.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azmath*
> 
> Anyone tested this mouse with Zowie G-SR pad? Are there any problems? I have the DG version of G-SR, just bought it and i like it too much to go back to the QcK Heavy again.


yes tested it on the blue and dark grey version first I would think it would spasm out on the white logo from time to time but it was so random.

But after latest firmware update no problem on the pad with the g303.


----------



## Azmath

Thank you very much kind sir







. I couldn't sleep because of this







. Just paid 44 euros for this pad, now i ordered G303 and i was worried i would have to get rid of one of them.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Did they reply yet?


Not yet.


----------



## FreeElectron

How is this mouse?
I am thinking of buying it for my other rig.

specifically

How are people handling the shape? (Fingertip)
How is the sensor? Any bugs or problems?
How is the software? bugs?


----------



## Ufasas

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151817365065?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

1 set from hong kong


----------



## LunaTiC123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How is this mouse?
> I am thinking of buying it for my other rig.
> 
> specifically
> 
> How are people handling the shape? (Fingertip)
> How is the sensor? Any bugs or problems?
> How is the software? bugs?


well I just got mine today and first impressions were kinda meh...

the shape is well... not that good for me, my hand size is 20cm and it feels kinda weird not sure how to describe it, it feels small don't like the back at all where the diamond shape goes in like this \ /( edit: actually the whole diamond shape thing is not for me both top and bottom), I can claw grip it fine even tho it's not that confy, I kinda expected this but really wanted to try the 3366 sensor and I didn't really like the weight of the g502 so I went with the g303.

love the clicks though they feel great, easy to spam but you don't click em by accident, whatever logitech did with they did it right and the scroll wheel is fine, has distinct notches and I don't feel like I'm gonna scroll by mistake but at the same time I can bunny hop just fine in counter-strike with the jump button binded to the scroll wheel.

as for the sensor well it's good (there are detailed reviews about this sensor on the forum), I like it.

software seems fine, had no issues with it, granted I just played around with the dpi settings and the RGB lightning and tried to make some macro's and it's all good, had no issues with it, didn't really play around with the surface tunning, left it at default but I belive logitech fixed the bug where the mouse spirals upwards looking at the sky in games (I might be wrong maybe someone here can confirm)

TLDR: personally I don't like the shape I'm too used to the IE 3.0 or the deathadder shape, atm I kinda force myself to get used to the shape, but I love everything else about it, ofc that' just my opinion, sure there are people who find the shape confy can't really judge it until you try it yourself, I'm gonna use it as my main mouse for 1 week and if I can't adapt to it gonna send it back


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaTiC123*
> 
> TLDR: personally I don't like the shape, but I love everything else about it, ofc that' just my opinion


...said just about everyone that used this mouse.

Please Logitech, keep the same size but use a more ergonomic shape. A simple shell swap and this mouse would be so good.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> ...said just about everyone that used this mouse.
> 
> Please Logitech, keep the same size but use a more ergonomic shape. A simple shell swap and this mouse would be so good.


^This and a more optimized spring tensioning design. The current one adds far too much weight and makes the mouse feel like a brick.


----------



## qsxcv

... have you even looked inside? the springs add less than 1g weight


----------



## hotwheels1997

Okay. I need some help from you guys.
Currently a DA user ,I have the double click issue. I love the shape of the DA,but I can only click with fingertips,which with a DA and a small hand simply doesn't work. I often get a good grip with it and then lose it and have the mouse feel uncomfortable for a long periods of time. I want my mouse to be comfortable 24/7, I use it daily.
I did try the G303 for 2 days but got a faulty one(lens rattle and stuff) so I returned. I can't buy from that store again and the rest don't allow a return policy if I happen to dislike the product. After two days, me and the shape were starting to get along. Still ,my DA was definitely better fit,but i've been using it for year and a half,my hand is pretty used to it. Any of you done DA-->G303 and do you regret it/not regret it? Since I can't return,once I buy ,it's over. Second hand market is bad in BG as well.
1. Pros:
a) Cool sensor
b) Small (the mouse is quite fat ,isn't it though? 65mm is a lot)
c) Somewhat suitable for my grip.
d) No double click. I do video editing and dblclick is pain
2. Cons:
a) Bad glide
b) Have to pay for it
c) Shape might not fit
d) not so light
This is my grip, don't know how exactly to call it. I have a part of my hand on the mouse pad (back) ,middle palm is resting on mouse and fingers are slightly clawed.


Spoiler: Click





My DA grip:





So what do you think guys, should I go for it? As it stands, the DA causes me to whiff a lot of shots because I change grip when I shoot(full palm while walking and claw when shooting). Will the G303 or the EC2-A be a better upgrade?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaTiC123*
> 
> well I just got mine today and first impressions were kinda meh...
> 
> the shape is well... not that good for me, my hand size is 20cm and it feels kinda weird not sure how to describe it, it feels small don't like the back at all where the diamond shape goes in like this \ /( edit: actually the whole diamond shape thing is not for me both top and bottom), I can claw grip it fine even tho it's not that confy, I kinda expected this but really wanted to try the 3366 sensor and I didn't really like the weight of the g502 so I went with the g303.
> 
> love the clicks though they feel great, easy to spam but you don't click em by accident, whatever logitech did with they did it right and the scroll wheel is fine, has distinct notches and I don't feel like I'm gonna scroll by mistake but at the same time I can bunny hop just fine in counter-strike with the jump button binded to the scroll wheel.
> 
> as for the sensor well it's good (there are detailed reviews about this sensor on the forum), I like it.
> 
> software seems fine, had no issues with it, granted I just played around with the dpi settings and the RGB lightning and tried to make some macro's and it's all good, had no issues with it, didn't really play around with the surface tunning, left it at default but I belive logitech fixed the bug where the mouse spirals upwards looking at the sky in games (I might be wrong maybe someone here can confirm)
> 
> TLDR: personally I don't like the shape I'm too used to the IE 3.0 or the deathadder shape, atm I kinda force myself to get used to the shape, but I love everything else about it, ofc that' just my opinion, sure there are people who find the shape confy can't really judge it until you try it yourself, I'm gonna use it as my main mouse for 1 week and if I can't adapt to it gonna send it back


I got used to the G502s weight but i am not sure that i can get used to 303's shape.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I got used to the G502s weight but i am not sure that i can get used to 303's shape.


Let's say it like that... in my case, when I claw grip, my ring and pinky finger go inwards while the tip of my thumb goes towards the back of the mouse. I was able to do the same on the G502, not so much on the thumb part because it felt just a tad too narrow for me on the left side, while the inward slope on the right made it possible for me to do the same thing with my pinky and ring finger as I am currently doing with my G303.

I hope I didn't describe it like a complete donkey, but maybe you'll get an idea. When it comes to shapes I'm very very flexible so don't take what I said too much for granted.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> Let's say it like that... in my case, when I claw grip, my ring and pinky finger go inwards while the tip of my thumb goes towards the back of the mouse. I was able to do the same on the G502, not so much on the thumb part because it felt just a tad too narrow for me on the left side, while the inward slope on the right made it possible for me to do the same thing with my pinky and ring finger as I am currently doing with my G303.
> 
> I hope I didn't describe it like a complete donkey, but maybe you'll get an idea. When it comes to shapes I'm very very flexible so don't take what I said too much for granted.


A couple of images would be better


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> A couple of images would be better


Yeah I'm going to hit you up with some pics in a sec, I just happened to have my phone completely dead so I have to load it up first

*ten thousand years later*




took a while but there you go, as you can see the claw grip is strong with this gamer


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ... have you even looked inside? the springs add less than 1g weight


I mean the design of the top shell. The increase weight from having "spring tensioned buttons" is not worth it. They need to figure out how to make it less complicated and still work.

Update on my experience with the g303:
Cant play any high bpm mouse only on osu because this mouse just stops tracking every time I click hard. Is there really no way to raise the LOD even if its by a tiny bit?!?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






I give up... just going to wait until their new line of mice comes out. Friend told me he saw some Logitech exhibit at EB Games 2015 in Sydney and there were apparently unreleased mice. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## CorruptBE

After using it for a prolonged time (being a "hater" of the shape first):

The initial design works imo
Middle where it flows over from the matte black to the back with the lightening needs to be smoothing out, allowing people with different finger sizes to grip at more locations
Edges at the back are pushing into the "open space" between the finger bones inside of my hand, which in time can create a bit of soreness
In essence... The shape needs more "smoothing"


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I mean the design of the top shell. The increase weight from having "spring tensioned buttons" is not worth it. They need to figure out how to make it less complicated and still work.
> 
> Update on my experience with the g303:
> Cant play any high bpm mouse only on osu because this mouse just stops tracking every time I click hard. Is there really no way to raise the LOD even if its by a tiny bit?!?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I give up... just going to wait until their new line of mice comes out. Friend told me he saw some Logitech exhibit at EB Games 2015 in Sydney and there were apparently unreleased mice. Can anyone confirm?


The top rear cover has nothing to do with the spring tension setup.

What have you done to your G303 exactly? Like seriously, I dropped my spare on the floor to test my tape job on the sensor. After checking the insides and reattaching the lens cover, it still works the same as my current G303.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> The top rear cover has nothing to do with the spring tension setup.
> 
> What have you done to your G303 exactly? Like seriously, I dropped my spare on the floor to test my tape job on the sensor. After checking the insides and reattaching the lens cover, it still works the same as my current G303.


Took it apart 10+ times to replace the cable with various different cables. Another 10 times because my lens was rattling (which I fixed with tape) and the back panel weighs quite a bit. My G303 felt more balanced (weight isnt on its ass anymore) and the "feel of lightness" is on par with my G100s


----------



## fnade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> After using it for a prolonged time (being a "hater" of the shape first):
> 
> The initial design works imo
> Middle where it flows over from the matte black to the back with the lightening needs to be smoothing out, allowing people with different finger sizes to grip at more locations
> Edges at the back are pushing into the "open space" between the finger bones inside of my hand, which in time can create a bit of soreness
> In essence... The shape needs more "smoothing"


After using it for few months, i must admit the shape is good, but need some smooth out as you mentioned, and rubber sides would be cool too.








I believe this could be a really great mouse if they could make cable more like Mionix or Zowie like, and middle mouse click a bit lighter ?
Without any doubt 3366 is insanely good sensor.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> Yeah I'm going to hit you up with some pics in a sec, I just happened to have my phone completely dead so I have to load it up first
> 
> *ten thousand years later*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> took a while but there you go, as you can see the claw grip is strong with this gamer


lol
It looks like you have caught an actual mouse


----------



## daniel0731ex

Hey guys I heard you're trying to find a comfortable grip for your mice:



...just putting this here. /trollhat


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniel0731ex*
> 
> Hey guys I heard you're trying to find a comfortable grip for your mice:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Picture!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...just putting this here. /trollhat


No grip will ever be comfortable with such a small pad.


----------



## LunaTiC123

Damn... the more I use the mouse the more I appreciate the sensor and the clicks, they are amazing but the shape damn it... for some reason my hand starts to hurt a bit after about 10 mins into a match of cs:go (no pain with the DA's or the IE 3.0 granted I've never used smaller mice) and palm get's sweaty with this (doesn't happen as much with the razer DA black ed. and the DA 2013 CLG ed. and with the logitech g400s I don't really get sweaty palm at all) maybe it's because I'm forcing myself grip it or I'm too used to bigger mice idk.

I don't know but the diamond shape it's a bit narrow for me, anyone has the same problems with larger hands(21-20 cm) while using the g303 ?

Thing is I really really love the sensor, it feels so snappy and responsive, might be a placebo but it feels easier to get kills on fps games specially 1 taps headshots or switching the spray from 1 guy to another also tracking people "feels" easy with the g303 but again this is all my opinion/experience with it.

I'm still going to keep it for the rest of the week since this is just day 2 of me using it, I might start to enjoy the shape somehow but I doubt anything will change really.

I would love to see a g400 shaped mouse with the 3366 sensor also the clicks that they use in the g502/g303 and less weight that would be my dream mouse. hell why didn't logitech put the clicks and the sensor in the g402 and remove that sniper button thing I don't get it.


----------



## darkfirebg

My hand also hurts after 10 or more pugs a day.. but yes, the sensor and clicks are amazing, so i'm not switching to anything else I will just get used to it or take breaks..


----------



## pinobot

I have a bug.
When i set a polling rate of 125Hz then the mouse moves faster than at 1000Hz.


----------



## Melan

What OS you're using? Are you sure it's 125hz and not like mine 5khz with windows 10?


----------



## doors1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaTiC123*
> 
> I would love to see a g400 shaped mouse with the 3366 sensor also the clicks that they use in the g502 and less weight that would be my dream mouse.


absolutely this.


----------



## pinobot

I use Windows 10

Very rough measurements:
125Hz and 800dp,i i cross the screen in 5.5cm.
250Hz 8cm
500Hz 9.5 cm
1000Hz 10.5cm.

This makes no sense.


----------



## Melan

Check your polling rate with dimr. Just because LGS set your mouse to 125hz, your polling can be WAY higher.

What I mean: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/3990#post_24456972


----------



## pinobot

I checked it and the numbers in dimr are all as they should be.
It's a mystery.
plugged the mouse out and in, used the internal memory and automatic game detection, reset to standard settings, the problem stays.
The only thing i can think of is that i tried the angle snapping feature.

uninstalled LGS 8.27, installed 8.74.80, problem still here.


----------



## qsxcv

wat....
upload some mousetester logs?


----------



## pinobot

Had a few hour sleep.








Mouse acceleration was mysteriously turned on in Windows.
Still weird that the effect of it is far greater at 125Hz than with 1000Hz.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Had a few hour sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mouse acceleration was mysteriously turned on in Windows.
> Still werid that the effect of it is far greater at 125Hz than with 1000Hz.


Hehe we all have that happen to us,at least once. I was beating myself because I swore I could feel accel,even though I "removed" it. Left with despair, I went to check the settings and voala,problem solved


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Had a few hour sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mouse acceleration was mysteriously turned on in Windows.
> Still werid that the effect of it is far greater at 125Hz than with 1000Hz.


It probably accelerates by individual polls from the mouse. The OS as a whole doesn't know what the true polling rate of the mouse is, so it has fewer polls with more data -> each piece of data is accelerated more.

It happens because mouse acceleration is proportional.


----------



## Azmath

I got 2 days with this mouse and here is my experience with it.
1. Shape is not that bad for me, after a few hours of CSGO my palm does not hurt (it did with EC2-A and FK1 but not that much with ZA12).
2. Sensor as everyone said is excelent. Very snappy. I realy like it.
3. Tilting problem. From what i've seen and discovered, the mouse feet have some air bubbles, they are not completely glued to the mouse. I had to press them down and solved the problem with tilting but i have to do this every 45-50 minutes as the problem reapeares (poor QC Logitech)
4. Gliding is bad. I previously used Hyperglides on all my zowie mice, this logitech feet suck more than zowie stock feet wich were bad.
5. Clicks are very nice.
My conclusion, does anyone know some good feet for this mouse, something like Hyperglides? Or is there someone that put IME 3.0 Hyperglides on it and works well?
And by the way, does any of you feel the some sort of spring vibrating when you lift the mouse from the pad and put it back?


----------



## jtl999

Alright

Been using mouse for two weeks, love the sensor. Unfortunately the cable is too stiff to use in a laptop environment. I got the mouse for free so I'm not too fussed but I am wondering if anyone has done any DIY work on the transplanting cable from a MX518/G400 front. I also like the added weight of my G400 compared to the G303, might toss a weight in there if there is room.


----------



## Weltgeist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azmath*
> 
> 4. Gliding is bad. I previously used Hyperglides on all my zowie mice, this logitech feet suck more than zowie stock feet wich were bad.
> My conclusion, does anyone know some good feet for this mouse, something like Hyperglides? Or is there someone that put IME 3.0 Hyperglides on it and works well?
> And by the way, does any of you feel the some sort of spring vibrating when you lift the mouse from the pad and put it back?


I can feel the spring vibrating too.

I would also like to know about better mousefeed. But on the first G303 I had, the gliding of the mouse was much better. Unfortunately the lens on the first mouse rattled a lot.


----------



## iceskeleton

Is it me or did they use different glides than the g302? They seem a bit smaller than my g302. Also thinner since with the g303 I can somewhat see the layout underneath.


----------



## pinobot

I was wondering about the glides too.
I don't think they are real 100% teflon, other mice i've have/had glided much better.


----------



## Weltgeist

I just ordered the glides linked by Ufasas in post 4070 (http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/4060#post_24480263).


----------



## pinobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151817365065?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> 1 set from hong kong


Thanks, ordered 2.


----------



## Anonizer

Hey guys, I'm thinking whether I get the g303 or g502.

I'm currently using a g100s and I'm having a problem right now cause at the end of aiming/flicking my hand would shake/jitter abit. It's very subtle, though it would get me off mark by a pixel or two and I think using heavier mice would get rid of it(??) since the g100s is too light.

My hands are 18.5 cm long.
I can use any of the three grips.
I want to try the 3366 sensor so bad.
Is there anyone who owns both of these mice can tell me if there is a distinct difference between the clicks?
Also are there no difference in tracking between the two mice? I read that qsxcv said the g303 srom is different or something.
Is there a significant difference in tracking between the 3366 and AM010?

The mousepad I'm using is a qck one. Thanks!


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anonizer*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm thinking whether I get the g303 or g502.
> 
> I'm currently using a g100s and I'm having a problem right now cause at the end of aiming/flicking my hand would shake/jitter abit. It's very subtle, though it would get me off mark by a pixel or two and I think using heavier mice would get rid of it(??) since the g100s is too light.
> 
> My hands are 18.5 cm long.
> I can use any of the three grips.
> I want to try the 3366 sensor so bad.
> Is there anyone who owns both of these mice can tell me if there is a distinct difference between the clicks?
> Also are there no difference in tracking between the two mice? I read that qsxcv said the g303 srom is different or something.
> Is there a significant difference in tracking between the 3366 and AM010?
> 
> The mousepad I'm using is a qck one. Thanks!


18.5cm long hand, I didnt' expect it was going to be that good for my grip style. If you hold a mouse like this, then It's gonna be good for you. Also for other people out there, check how I place 2 fingers at the right side. This diamond shape worked for me.






EDIT: Sry that I had to go out and couldn't answer your main questions:

- Clicks on the G303 feel so much better than a G100s'
- Build quality feels better too
- The AM010 was good for me but I can notice the 3366 has the edge in terms of micro-adjustments and consistency, this is maybe thanks to the higher framerates in the 3366. Also don't forget it has a better perfect control speed.
- The G100s was considerably thinner so I guess that's why you were unable to control it properly, maybe you were used to wider/heavier mice. If you can grip the G303 the way I do, you'll find comfortable if you have your palm touching firmly the back of the mouse and both sides are nicely gripped, this way you'll have a nice sense of control.
- I'm using a QCK Heavy btw.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> 18.5cm long hand, I didnt' expect it was going to be that good for my grip style. If you hold a mouse like this, then It's gonna be good for you. Also for other people out there, check how I place 2 fingers at the right side. This diamond shape worked for me.


You have a very simular grip to mine,when I claw. I'm worried about my thumb resting on the left edge,since my hand is smaller (17.5cm) . Do you think such thing could happen,do you have space to spare on the side?


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> You have a very simular grip to mine,when I claw. I'm worried about my thumb resting on the left edge,since my hand is smaller (17.5cm) . Do you think such thing could happen,do you have space to spare on the side?


There's definitely spare room there for me to curl up my thumb finger even more and the edge wont bother me because my thumb isn't resting on the edge.

In the photos bellow you will notice that I move my grip backwards; my thumb isn't touching the edge. As a reference, the nearest LED dot to the edge is 1mm away from it, so check the photos and decide by yourself, I think your thumb won't be resting on the edge. The only thing I would find problematic for you would be your thumb reaching the 5th button, but still doable just not that comfortable like it is for me I guess.


----------



## Sn0ops

I got my fourth g303 yesterday.

I bought the three mouse in a local store - serial 1512 -> all rattled and has sensor issues.

The fourth g303 I bought via Logitech.com -> Serial 1515
The mistery thing is: the sensor is rattling and making noise, however the sensor works well without any tracking or interruptions.
____________________________________________________________________

BTW Im a Palmer with largehands (had the Deathadder Chroma before)
I got used to the shape of the G303 and its ******* awsome... so snappy sensor.( when it works









(im Global Elite in CS GO... with G303 my HS percentage increased by 10-15%

PS: In my opinion the G303 has nice Glidefeets, glides much better then DA Chroma! )

Best regards


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sn0ops*
> 
> I got my fourth g303 yesterday.
> 
> I bought the three mouse in a local store - serial 1512 -> all rattled and has sensor issues.
> 
> The fourth g303 I bought via Logitech.com -> Serial 1515
> The mistery thing is: the sensor is rattling and making noise, however the sensor works well without any tracking or interruptions.
> ____________________________________________________________________
> 
> BTW Im a Palmer with largehands (had the Deathadder Chroma before)
> I got used to the shape of the G303 and its ******* awsome... so snappy sensor.( when it works
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (im Global Elite in CS GO... with G303 my HS percentage increased by 10-15%
> 
> PS: In my opinion the G303 has nice Glidefeets, glides much better then DA Chroma! )
> 
> Best regards


HS% is minuscule in determining the tracking quality unless you are a tap player which is not viable, give it some time first. If you don''t like the shape, you may degrade in performance. Personally I sometimes get 60%HS and 10%HS depending on the day (also ge), its not that accurate.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Hello guys. Since I'm trying to get a youtube going, I did a review between the G303 and the DA. I touched some topics that most mouse reviews don't and I'd love to get your input. Camera quality isn't the best, but it is the best I can get my hands on . Any input and tips will be much appreciated,I'd love to start a review-type channel and get review samples and such.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Hey,how is the tracking & glide on a QCK+ ? It's finally available in my country and mine is sticky for some weird reason which causes less glide. Will re-buy the mouse very soon.
Searched the thread,got my answer.


----------



## yukino

Still using this mice, got it like 2 days before the release date.. back in february or march.

Love it









Back then I was Silver 3 in CS:GO now i'm LEM


----------



## detto87

You're now LEM because the ranking system got all messed up. Pretty much EVERYONE on my friends list is now supreme or global. No kidding.


----------



## qsxcv

yea lem now is roughly old dmg
still a lot higher than silver3 though


----------



## yukino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> You're now LEM because the ranking system got all messed up. Pretty much EVERYONE on my friends list is now supreme or global. No kidding.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yea lem now is roughly old dmg
> still a lot higher than silver3 though


Oh rly? Damn.

Anyways, I've improved alot







thats enough for me


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Hello guys. Since I'm trying to get a youtube going, I did a review between the G303 and the DA. I touched some topics that most mouse reviews don't and I'd love to get your input. Camera quality isn't the best, but it is the best I can get my hands on . Any input and tips will be much appreciated,I'd love to start a review-type channel and get review samples and such.


@2.45 you said its a variations of the 3310 this is false

the sensor used is the all know 3988 for the rest the review was not good using enotus I wont recommend.

Enotus gives random results and is not a good comparing tool.

Then I stopped wathing at 3.30 seeing it gets really boring fast I would recommend to keep the review short or make a write up and get your facts straight!


----------



## CorruptBE

Well there's not much to review imo about the G303:

"Simpleh teh best... if you can hold it in your hands properly!"


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The G303 is kind of a heavy mouse for its size. Its a dense mouse with a small footprint.


----------



## jtl999

I wish it was heaver (105-110g before cable)

Also, does anyone have any experience changing the cable/adding weight to the mouse? I'm using a laptop and the braided cable isn't ideal.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I wish it was heaver (105-110g before cable)


You could probably open it up and hot glue coins or something in it. Reducing weight on it is alot harder. ~70g is ideal for me


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> You could probably open it up and hot glue coins or something in it. Reducing weight on it is alot harder. ~70g is ideal for me


Yeah. Not going to hot glue anything though as I don't want it to be permanent.

You have weird hands?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I fingertip grip my mice and I play low dpi. That puts alot of strain on my fingers already and obv I don't want any unecessary strain in the form of extra weight.


----------



## jtl999

Oh ok

Hybrid palm/claw grip OK for me with G303.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The mouse is too small for me to palm/claw comfortably.


----------



## jtl999

Fair enough


----------



## jtl999

Took some pictures of how I use my G303 with my Macbook Pro











http://imgur.com/ql60i


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

This is how I hold my G303. Only my thumb and ring finger exerts force to move the mouse. All the other finger merely rests on it to stabilize it. My pinky drags on the mousepad.


----------



## Chineto

Okay so I really like this mouse the shape is really good for me since I claw grip and the sensor feels great but the one thing that's really irritating is the dam rattle when I move the mouse I don't know if its the scroll wheel rattling or the lens but I've already sent back 2 of them for a replacement on http://www.amazon.co.uk/ I also tried buying from the offical logitech website and still got the problem which is a real shame but the most annoying thing is that my friend has the mouse and his doesn't rattle at all it's solid as a rock.


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how I hold my G303. Only my thumb and ring finger exerts force to move the mouse. All the other finger merely rests on it to stabilize it. My pinky drags on the mousepad.


That is exactly how I hold my mouse, maybe the g303 is worth a look at.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> That is exactly how I hold my mouse, maybe the g303 is worth a look at.


I would reccommend that you buy it off Amazon so you can return it ezpz if you dont like it.


----------



## johnsamuels

I'm in Aus so not an option. A few people I know have them, hated it at first, persevered and now love the shape so if it works for them, and works for you with the same grip as I already use, it's worth a shot.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> I'm in Aus so not an option. A few people I know have them, hated it at first, persevered and now love the shape so if it works for them, and works for you with the same grip as I already use, it's worth a shot.


The thing is it doesnt work for me. Im only using it atm because its the only functional mouse I have atm that's snappy. I have used this for a total of 6 months and I still havent adjusted to the shape.


----------



## fuzzybass

The G303 shape has definitely grown on me. I have a feeling the designers designed it purely as a "gaming" mouse, because during games, it's as if the shape disappears, and I don't notice the shape... which is a GOOD thing. It's like I'm literally just clicking on the screen, rather than holding an apparatus-that-translates-movement-onto-the-screen.

But the thing is pretty uncomfortable in the desktop, where I'm not flinging around and moving the mouse pointer as much.

It's usable, but I would prefer another shape. It's just, like Zenith said, there aren't other viable alternatives. Avior is too fat, and the Zowie mice have stiff clicks.


----------



## hotwheels1997

The way you guys hold the mouse really boggles me mind. @Zenith_Phantasm
Having accuracy with nearly no control over the mouse,jesus you must have incredible dexterity.


----------



## CorruptBE

I grab the front rather firmly with the butt pressed into my hand.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Any of you with a newly bought QCK+? I ordered mine from a certified store in Bulgaria,but it has weird backside. It works perfectly, I'm just wondering it's genuine or not. Just in case I decide to buy again from them. Got the pad today,and it's from a new stock since the store had ran out and had to get some more .


----------



## IaVoR

I got G303 today and so far I'm liking the performance of the mouse, shape could've been better but judging from the pictures on the internet I was expecting something much worse. The only problem is I'm experiencing the rattle problem on mine.. S/N: 1518
Was expecting this problem to be resolved after that much time but nope.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Do you guys think a red mouse pad would give a higher LOD? Im thinking of buying an Artisan Hien and they're giving me a choice of Red/Navy Blue/Black/Sakura Pink


----------



## dreamcaster

Just got mine today as they've only just become available in Australia. Really liking it so far, including the shape (I have small hands, 17cm from base of palm to finger tips). Only problem is that it had lense rattle straight out of the box, my serial no. is 1528. The Q-tip trick fixes it for a short period of time before rattling again (even noticeable during normal desktop usage). I really thought Logitech would've had this sorted by now.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dreamcaster*
> 
> I really thought Logitech would've had this sorted by now.


They have sorted it out perfectly, by picking up all the bad model numbers and shipping them all to Australia







.

After all, what were they going to do with all those failed pieces that were produced?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

You Australians will forever be scrrewed by gaming peripheral manufacturers.


----------



## BeeQAL

Yep, we Australians always get shafted in general.









My personal experience with the G303 here in Aus has been every bit terrible. I've returned 3 due to faults or defects. I'm on my fourth and it still isn't quite acceptable by normal standards but at least it tracks as well as it's hyped up to be. The issue with this one is it still rattles when you move it. This is by far the worst experience I have ever had with any mouse I've ever bought and trust me, I have more mice than most here. I'm definitely gaming mouse obsessed and have been since the Deathadder 3G.

I will say that the 3366 is easily my favorite sensor so I will put up with the weird shape that I don't really like but have become accustomed to for the amazing tracking. I tried going back to my trusted favorite mice and they just don't compare to the 3366, for my personal use and experience. It must be stated that my trusted faves were by no means slouches at all: Deathadder 3.5G Black and Zowie ZA13. Before the 3366, I thought Zowie's implementation of the 3310 in the FK and ZA was the best I had experienced.

I'm eyeing the Mionix Avior for it's shape as I tried it in store and it was the best feeling shape for me personally so I've been obsessing over it. Just hope their implementation of the 3310 is as good as Zowie.

Anyway, please be aware of the rampant issue of rattling in the G303. This mouse was, and maybe still is, very poorly manufactured or has very poor levels of quality control.

Feel free to hit me up with any questions related or otherwise guys.







I've been on these forums for the last few years but only decided to register now just to give my take on this polarizing mouse.


----------



## dEklaN

AAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## iceskeleton

damn mine developed one too, but then I just did the qtip trick and no rattle. Guess I have to do this every week or open it up and tape it like others have done


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dEklaN*
> 
> Same here bought it from the Logitech website and it arrived today right out of the box it was rattling which is a shame since coming from an Avior 7000 i really like the shape but the rattling is so bad


Shame that you now have in your possession a G303 "Rattler" straight from one of Amazon's warehouses. Cheaper for them to send it over to the Land down Under, than sending them back to Logitech Central.


----------



## pinobot

Mine rattled too, never really noticed it before because i don't play fast games.
Fixed it with two key-dampers, the electrical tape trick would probably also be fine but that has a higher probability to lower LOD.
Cut both dampers once and stuck them under both sides if the lens.


----------



## altf4

What about putting the skates back on after disassemble? It's worth fixing by myself?


----------



## pinobot

I punched holes in mine

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pinobot/media/1_600_zpszwq0rtci.jpg.html


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I punched holes in mine
> 
> http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pinobot/media/1_600_zpszwq0rtci.jpg.html


Hmm interesting, so u don't need to remove skates, does it slide worse when there is a holes on it?


----------



## pinobot

No, it's the same.
Although i really don't like logitech skates, i don't believe they are pure teflon, they have too much resistance.


----------



## BeeQAL

Dang, that seems so elaborate that I just don't want to risk ruining the mouse any further man. Seems you did the trick though so good job!

I hope what Elrick is saying isn't true because that is an unacceptable practice. What? Did they think we simple Aussies wouldn't notice the defects and poor quality? There is a strong and thriving community of hardcore PC gamers down under so it wouldn't be wise of them to be so naive about us. I've wasted so much time and fuel going back and forth to the retailer that I bought it from here (MWave to any Aussies in Sydney here) that I really should've gave up after the second one was DOA.


----------



## iceskeleton

It's a different s/n than worldwide models, if anything, we would be getting later models I imagine


----------



## altf4

I Just fixed mine, used duck tape tho, + i think i messed up my upper skate i failed the hole like an idiot, where i can order new ones? maybe better then the stock one.


----------



## pinobot

A few pages back they posted this ebay link.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151817365065?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true

The description says G302 but the picture is for a G303.
I ordered 2 sets, so if it's for the G302 then i can use the second set to cut the side skates myself.


----------



## Melan

It is for G302. It's just new G302 models have the same base as G303.


----------



## argentum

This set is missing 2 small side feet, but otherwise I like it more than stock feet.


----------



## Twiffle

Could this mouse cable be changed? If so... how does the process work exactly? Never changed anything about a mouse or modified it, so would like to know. I dislike braided cables, especially thick ones since they just get in your way when you're gaming.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Could this mouse cable be changed? If so... how does the process work exactly? Never changed anything about a mouse or modified it, so would like to know. I dislike braided cables, especially thick ones since they just get in your way when you're gaming.


Just take it out and replace it with another one. Just make sure the pins on the header match up.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Just take it out and replace it with another one. Just make sure the pins on the header match up.


Would something like this be fine? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Logitech-MX518-MX510-MX500-MX310-G1-G3-mouse-USB-cable-USB-mouse-Line-/271248777007?hash=item3f27afdf2f


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Would something like this be fine? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Logitech-MX518-MX510-MX500-MX310-G1-G3-mouse-USB-cable-USB-mouse-Line-/271248777007?hash=item3f27afdf2f


Yep


----------



## Melan

I bought this cable (from this seller) and it's stupidly stiff. Still keep it as a backup though.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Hmm interesting, so u don't need to remove skates, does it slide worse when there is a holes on it?


It can add some nice resistance like it did on mine(tbh it was the one and only time i used a drill to do it, I use something sharp instead now). Had to readjust when I swapped mine out with a spare with unpunctured feet.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I bought this cable (from this seller) and it's stupidly stiff. Still keep it as a backup though.


Argh... I wonder if it becomes a bit less stiff after some time of using it then. If it'll be stiff, then I'll pass.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I use a mouse cable from an old Logitech M100 and its very flexible (probably 2nd to my worn out OG Abyssus cable)


----------



## qsxcv

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Original-High-Quality-Gaming-Mouse-USB-Mouse-Cable-Line-For-Razer-DeathAdder-/191138230522?hash=item2c80b9f0fa

this is the most flexible cable i've ever used. and after stripping the braiding, it's as thin and light as the g100s/g400 cable, but 10x more flexible


----------



## dreamcaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeeQAL*
> 
> I've wasted so much time and fuel going back and forth to the retailer that I bought it from here (MWave to any Aussies in Sydney here) that I really should've gave up after the second one was DOA.


Great that's what I was afraid of, how many have you been through? I also purchased mine from Mwave but i'm in VIC so I would have to pay to post it back to them. I might leave mine for a little while before returning it until newer batches come in. Might even try Logitech customer care directly when I return it and see if they will cover shipping lol. At least it doesn't appear to interfere with the tracking, it's more annoying than anything else.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Original-High-Quality-Gaming-Mouse-USB-Mouse-Cable-Line-For-Razer-DeathAdder-/191138230522?hash=item2c80b9f0fa
> 
> this is the most flexible cable i've ever used. and after stripping the braiding, it's as thin and light as the g100s/g400 cable, but 10x more flexible


Any instructions on braid stripping? Still have bad memories from last time I did it. *shivers* So many lives cables wasted.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Nail clippers+roll it up like a sleeve is how I stripped my G303's cable


----------



## BeeQAL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dreamcaster*
> 
> Great that's what I was afraid of, how many have you been through? I also purchased mine from Mwave but i'm in VIC so I would have to pay to post it back to them. I might leave mine for a little while before returning it until newer batches come in. Might even try Logitech customer care directly when I return it and see if they will cover shipping lol. At least it doesn't appear to interfere with the tracking, it's more annoying than anything else.


I got 3 that were defective so I'm on my fourth which apart from the slight rattle, is the best tracking mouse I've used yet. Still don't like the shape but I'm used to it now so I'm owning in games. I recommend calling Logitech; I did that. They log it and give you a case number just in case MWave give you crap but in my experience MWave were really cool about it.

Yeah, it's crazy frustrating bro. I was furious and couldn't believe my luck. I just wanted to experience the 3366 in it's full glory but when I finally did, it was worth it. Your experience may vary though because when it comes to sensor feel, it is totally personal and subjective.

Good luck man.


----------



## Eutheran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Nail clippers+roll it up like a sleeve is how I stripped my G303's cable


have any pictures of how it looks now?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Ordered a new one after last one being faulty in many ways,let's see , I have a new sleeker mousepad as well


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> have any pictures of how it looks now?



My phone's camera is kind of messed up please excuse the terrible quality.


----------



## Eutheran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> My phone's camera is kind of messed up please excuse the terrible quality.


that was the cable under the braid? It looks really clean. Is it much more flexible now?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> that was the cable under the braid? It looks really clean. Is it much more flexible now?


Extremely flexible but the outer coating on it feels like the rubbery coating on the G400S. Be careful when stripping it as the outer rubber layer is quite thin.


----------



## jtl999

I only have G400, is G400S any different?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I only have G400, is G400S any different?


Im pretty sure the rubber coating on the thumb rest and pinky rest are the same on both.

420th post


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I only have G400, is G400S any different?
> 
> 
> 
> Im pretty sure the rubber coating on the thumb rest and pinky rest are the same on both.
> 
> 420th post
Click to expand...

The FIRST edition G400 (which everyone hates here) had the rubber compound applied similar to the mx518.

The Second edition G400 has the much refined textured plastic edition (don't know what else to call it). Whilst the G400S adopted a slightly rougher texture compared to my second edition G400 series.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My G400S doesnt feel like textured plastic. Theres definitely some kind of soft touch rubber coating on it. Its similar to the coating on the Corsair KB wristrests


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> The FIRST edition G400 (which everyone hates here) had the rubber compound applied similar to the mx518.
> 
> The Second edition G400 has the much refined textured plastic edition (don't know what else to call it). Whilst the G400S adopted a slightly rougher texture compared to my second edition G400 series.


By "second edition" you mean the one without angle snapping? which I have.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> By "second edition" you mean the one without angle snapping? which I have.


Correct....


----------



## dreamcaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeeQAL*
> 
> I got 3 that were defective so I'm on my fourth which apart from the slight rattle, is the best tracking mouse I've used yet. Still don't like the shape but I'm used to it now so I'm owning in games. I recommend calling Logitech; I did that. They log it and give you a case number just in case MWave give you crap but in my experience MWave were really cool about it.
> 
> Yeah, it's crazy frustrating bro. I was furious and couldn't believe my luck. I just wanted to experience the 3366 in it's full glory but when I finally did, it was worth it. Your experience may vary though because when it comes to sensor feel, it is totally personal and subjective.
> 
> Good luck man.


Wow thanks, yeah MWave have been really great to deal with. I think I might wait for newer stock before returning it, if I had to post back three or four mice I might as well have just bought another mouse. I do really like the feel and clicks, etc of it..... Oh well Q-tip for the moment lol.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Boys, my g303 has a serial number starting with 1513. Is that a rattling one?


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Boys, my g303 has a serial number starting with 1513. Is that a rattling one?


shake it see if it rattles.. and make sure to support the buttons just in case they are not the ones that rattle


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IaVoR*
> 
> shake it see if it rattles.. and make sure to support the buttons just in case they are not the ones that rattle


Not yet here, I saw the SN on the mail warranty they send them me,as a backup. I'll be getting it tomorrow.


----------



## pinobot

move the top of your finger over the sensor to make sure it track, use the default mat setting.
Now hold your finger over the sensor and shake the mouse. If it rattles you'll see the pointer move on the screen.


----------



## dreamcaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> move the top of your finger over the sensor to make sure it track, use the default mat setting.
> Now hold your finger over the sensor and shake the mouse. If it rattles you'll see the pointer move on the screen.


A good quick test, one that also explains why my lense rattles and doesn't appear to effect tracking. If I do the test as you describe my pointer moves as the lense rattles. I am however using the G240 mouse pad profile as I also purchased that pad to go with the mouse. If I repeat this test with the G240 pad profile selected (as I normally use this one) the pointer doesn't move at all when the lense rattles.

Also, if I switch back to the default pad profile and do the Q-tip trick to temporarily stop the lense rattle it also stops the pointer moving on screen when you shake the mouse. Definitely proves that it is the lense moving and that it effects tracking when rattling. Hopefully Logitech fix these mice properly soon, I don't really fancy having to pull apart a brand new mouse and write off my 2 year warranty! Mine is a 1528 serial no. so newer then what some of you guys are getting at the moment.


----------



## dgmul

Curiosity killed the cat, and I've been using a G303 for the past couple weeks, primarily because I was interested in testing the notoriously weird shape. Maybe it would alleviate some of the RSI issues I had been having, just by encouraging a claw grip instead of a palm? Hell if I knew. I was switching from my trusty old DeathAdder 3.5G, which is the only other gaming mouse I've owned, so it's going to be the basis of comparison for my review.

Trying the G303 ended up being more or less like trying crack. It was a lot of fun, and it takes a _lot_ of willpower for me to put the mouse down now, but I have to, because I just can't deal with the shape. Even after two weeks of use, the shape feels uncomfortable to me. I've tried adjusting my grip in subtly different ways, but no matter what I do, I end up developing RSI pains much more quickly with the G303 than with my DA. For the record, my hands are 20 cm from wrist to fingertip.

Now for the good news. Almost every other aspect of the mouse is god-tier, in my opinion. The click latency is so good that when I first started using it, it felt like games were proactively responding to my clicks a few milliseconds BEFORE I even made them! After I went back to the DA, the click latency was very obvious, and frustrating. The mouse buttons feel crisp, and have satisfying auditory feedback as well, which is impressive to pull off in combination with such light and responsive clicks. This is definitely my favorite aspect of the mouse.

The LOD is superior on the G303 (default settings, no calibration), too. It's low enough that it doesn't accidentally track while repositioning the mouse, a problem that I have more with the DA 3.5G. I don't feel like I'm hugely qualified to comment on the quality of the sensor itself, but I will say that after adjusting to the G303's 3366 for a couple weeks, then switching back to the DA 3.5G, I felt like there was a degree of negative acceleration in the DA (rapid, large turns felt like they took too long, and vice-versa). However, I could just as easily suggest that this was a result of becoming adjusted to a slight positive acceleration in the 3366. What I do know is that my aim felt reliable from day 1 on the G303.

While some people complain about the scroll wheel feeling too tight, I personally like the scroll wheel. It's easy to control each individual step on the wheel, so if you were the sort of person that liked to bind scroll wheel to a weapon selection cycle, you wouldn't have any problem selecting the right weapon. Middle mouse might be a little stiff, but it's not a big deal. The side buttons are fine, albeit maybe a little awkwardly shaped and positioned (again, shape is my primary criticism of this mouse).

The only other issue is, of course, the god-forsaken braided cable. It kept bumping into my monitor stand, which was pretty annoying. And I almost forgot to mention, I was lucky enough to receive a unit with zero lens rattle (1508 S/N).

TL;DR -- Logitech took an amazing mouse, and completely ruined it by putting it in a stupid spaceship-shaped chassis, instead of something designed to be comfortable for HUMAN HANDS.


----------



## LunaTiC123

Logi should just put the g303 spring tension clicks and the 3366 sensor in the g402 and remove that stupid sniper button and call it g403 or something.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dgmul*
> 
> Even after two weeks of use, the shape feels uncomfortable to me.
> 
> TL;DR -- Logitech took an amazing mouse, and completely ruined it by putting it in a stupid spaceship-shaped chassis, instead of something designed to be comfortable for HUMAN HANDS.


YES anyone that has a remote form of RSI developing within their right hand/arm will find the G303 will NOT help you at all.

Unless you want to experience the full pain and unbearable amount of torture of using it for some time. Better look elsewhere if you want to find a mouse that doesn't repeatedly rape and pillage your right arm with such menace and glee.


----------



## Derp

Logitech doesn't appreciate the shape hate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Logitech*
> 01010011
> 01010100
> 01000110
> 01010101


----------



## IaVoR

So I got a new one today from a different store for 39,99 euros seems like they mixed up the prices for the G303 and G302 since 302 was 59,99 this one has the 1517 S/N so far no rattle, and I'm returning the old one


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Logitech doesn't appreciate the shape hate.


The FinalMouse symmetrical shell with a Logitech 3366 PCB?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> YES anyone that has a remote form of RSI developing within their right hand/arm will find the G303 will NOT help you at all.
> 
> Unless you want to experience the full pain and unbearable amount of torture of using it for some time. Better look elsewhere if you want to find a mouse that doesn't repeatedly rape and pillage your right arm with such menace and glee.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The FinalMouse symmetrical shell with a Logitech 3366 PCB?


Rival 100 shape pls or KPM (I dont know which one my hand likes better but I dont plan to buy either seeing that they're both smoothed mice)


----------



## hotwheels1997

Any of you with SN 1513? I'd appreciate to know if i'll get a rattling product or not,I can return it if I don't open it .


----------



## ronal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Any of you with SN 1513? I'd appreciate to know if i'll get a rattling product or not,I can return it if I don't open it .


The one I have starts with 1515 and it rattles, so I'm almost certain the 1513 would have the rattle problem aswell.


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> The one I have starts with 1515 and it rattles, so I'm almost certain the 1513 would have the rattle problem aswell.


As I mentioned in my previous post, I have a 1508 and it has no rattle. I think it's just luck of the draw.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Yup, I'm not even gonna say what S/N mine was now. You either get one with it, or without it.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Yea it probably is. Mine is 1512 and I have no rattle.


----------



## pinobot

I took the mouse apart (again) and sprayed WD-40 around the axle of the wheel and whiped it off after a few minutes of turning the wheel.
It feels more direct now. Before it it felt like the wheel rotation was dampened bij thick greece of some sort even though a didn't see any lubrication on it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I'm definitely more paranoid about lens rattle and stability on *ALL* mice now.

An example would be my F2020 laser recently. It had paint lines resembling a G303 with rattle issues. I had to open the mouse and apply double sided tape so the lens would not move at all. Fixed. Normal paint lines now.


----------



## kr0w

I went to Best Buy today and tried the G303 in hand. This thing is so damn comfortable, completely different from what a lot of people are saying about the shape. I guess I have alien hands according to some of the jokes about logitech design. Switches felt flawless as well. If I didn't make two random Asian rebrand purchases recently, I'd stock-up three of these asap. I know what I'm getting for my next paycheck!


----------



## jtl999

Send me a picture of your hands


----------



## kr0w

Let me introduce you to good old Mary Jane


----------



## Melan

dem alien hands


----------



## jtl999

A former friend of mine's girlfriend has hands that look like that


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> A former friend


what happened?


----------



## jtl999

Things


----------



## wonderboysam

sex tape things?


----------



## jtl999

lolno


----------



## Sencha

Come on drop the details. We're all family here let it out. We wont judge


----------



## Zenith Phantasm




----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*


The break up may have been to do with the 303. So we need to get to the bottom of this now.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> The break up may have been to do with the 303. So we need to get to the bottom of this now.


You have a point


----------



## jtl999

Was November 2014 so no


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Was November 2014 so no


G303 prototype perhaps?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> G303 prototype perhaps?


G302


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

if only Logitech would sell differently shaped side panels for the G303 it would be perfect. Nothing is wrong with it other than the sides.


----------



## jtl999

Yeah, My problem as well :/


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im pretty sure they could give the G303 a more filling ass and straighter sides that dont slant as aggressively.

Straighter sides could alleviate some of the problems have with the ultra low LOD as well as more comfort.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Fitting ass


lol


----------



## jtl999

Now if only it had the "grips" like G9x (Never owned one but have tried in store some time ago)


----------



## darkfirebg

Hello guys, just wanted to share my improvement with the G303, even though i play with archaic video card (30 fps in/near smokes) i managed to get 1.5 RWS points above my average. Thanks logitech









And if for some reason you are still in doubt and u think i've played like 10 pugs, here are my stats: Pug Stats: 73-50-11 (.545)


----------



## dmbr

So, do you guys think they'll ever fix the LOD calibration bug?


----------



## povohat

I was under the impression that it was meant to be fixed with the latest firmware update for the G502/G303 from a month or two ago. Is it still misbehaving?


----------



## darkfirebg

Honestly, i've no issues using a QCK on default.


----------



## johnsamuels

Best clicks/switches I have ever used.

Best sensor I have ever used.

The weight is perfect.

Am slowly getting used to the shape, but it is an effort. When I am holding it in a specific way which doesn't feel natural yet, but not uncomfortable, my aim is great. When I unconsciously move my hand to a more familiar grip, aim deteriorates.

Braided cable was an odd choice, and subpar in my opinion. It is very thick and heavy.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> Best clicks/switches I have ever used.
> 
> Best sensor I have ever used.
> 
> The weight is perfect.
> 
> Am slowly getting used to the shape, but it is an effort. When I am holding it in a specific way which doesn't feel natural yet, but not uncomfortable, my aim is great. When I unconsciously move my hand to a more familiar grip, aim deteriorates.
> 
> Braided cable was an odd choice, and subpar in my opinion. It is very thick and heavy.


>agreed on points about clicks and sensor
>Could personally use a bit heavier (used to 105-110g like deathadder 3.5g, g400)
>same here, but I don't like it for desktop use.
>agreed, g400 and deathadder cable is better.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> I was under the impression that it was meant to be fixed with the latest firmware update for the G502/G303 from a month or two ago. Is it still misbehaving?


Odd, LGS says there's no update but it's certainly been longer than 2 months...the only time I updated the firmware was shortly after it was released.

Is LGS the only option for updating?


----------



## hotwheels1997

SN 1513 came with a lot of rattle ,which caused problems with tracking. Returned.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Odd, LGS says there's no update but it's certainly been longer than 2 months...the only time I updated the firmware was shortly after it was released.
> 
> Is LGS the only option for updating?


LGS said the same for me, but there was an updated version on Logitech's site. Check your version with the latest on their site.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> SN 1513 came with a lot of rattle ,which caused problems with tracking. Returned.


Which vendor did you purchase your G303 from?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Is there any mouse atm that isn't a brick and comes close to this mouse's performance? I can't deal with the shape anymore. My hand tremors are getting worse and my aim is falling as a result.


----------



## wareya

abyssus 3.5g variant? but it feels like a swamp at speed because of the high speed cloth pad tracking jitter of the 3888


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> abyssus 3.5g variant? but it feels like a swamp at speed because of the high speed cloth pad tracking jitter of the 3888


You did uninstall Synapse right? Because with Synapse installed I do agree it feels bad, but that has already been somewhat proven:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1563813/somewhat-objectively-evaluating-sensor-responsiveness/130#post_24187957
http://www.overclock.net/t/1563813/somewhat-objectively-evaluating-sensor-responsiveness/140#post_24188758


----------



## wareya

I only use the legacy drivers, which I don't even have installed anymore. The abyssus's sensor and response are essentially identical to the DA 3.5g, which is what I have. I used multiple firmware variants and they all feel like a swamp at high speed. KPM doesn't, tho it seems to have ~0.5ms more latency for some reason (probably polling timing stuff)


----------



## dmbr

Thanks very much, I found the newer LGS and succesfully updated the firmware


----------



## TriviumKM

No problem


----------



## johnsamuels

Where is the serial number on the mouse? I can't find it.


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> Where is the serial number on the mouse? I can't find it.


bottom right corner on the box


----------



## darkfirebg

1513 here. Have the rattling issue, but does not seem to affect accuracy so far.. It's pretty annoying to know it's there though.


----------



## X6SweexLV

Someone else has such a problem with the mouse ?


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> Thanks very much, I found the newer LGS and succesfully updated the firmware


Wow...I'd forgotten how much calibration lowers the the LOD--and call me crazy but tracking feels more solid, too...I am crazy, right? I thought surface calibration solely affected LOD? Or perhaps the difference in feel is due to something else in the firmware update?

Either way, I'm happy. Thanks again!


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Which vendor did you purchase your G303 from?


Local
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> 1513 here. Have the rattling issue, but does not seem to affect accuracy so far.. It's pretty annoying to know it's there though.


Are you from Bulgaria(going by the name) ? If yes, D & G has rattle-free mice.


----------



## Azmath

Managed to put some I.E. 3.0 hyperglides on this mouse. Not a solid solution, but definetly the glide is wayyyy better than those ****ty logi skates. Had to sacrifice the EC2-A for the 5th skate but i don't use it anyway.


----------



## Melan

MX-1 hyperglides work better tbh.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> MX-1 hyperglides work better tbh.


This. I finally realized recently that most of the time, dot sized telon feet are the answer.


----------



## Melan

MX-1 are the same oval shape as MS-3 but a lot smaller and only have 0.5mm thickness. You also have better access to screws if you need to take mouse apart for cleaning or w/e reason.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperglide-Mouse-Skates-Logitech-G1-MX300/dp/B0121M5I4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445451492&sr=8-1&keywords=hyperglides+mx What about these? Best skates?


----------



## Melan

You get 10 MX-1 glides in one pack though.


----------



## Azmath

And when people asked for hyperglides for this, nobody said anything ... Now we all have hyperglides. Atleast i'll have some hotline games for spare when they'll arive.


----------



## Melan

I sent hyperglide an email asking about any update on G303 stakes. Mark replied that no updates for now as they are working on EC hyperglides. So I just took my MX-1 which were collecting dust and applied them. No regrets.

TL;DR Tired of waiting, applied whatever. Works good.


----------



## Eutheran

So logitech updated their mouse feet recently. I had some problem with my mouse feet wearing out on hard pads, I have gone through 2 sets of mouse feet already and I just received the two new sets of mouse feet. The original had very round corners and were more oval on the surface which made the mouse extremely slick and floaty. The new mouse feet are cut so they are not glossy, they are extremely matte and cut straight so there is no curve to them. The mouse feels much better on a cloth pad and feels a bit more stable. I had the 1511 G303 no lens rattle and ordered extra feet the day I bought it about 3-4 months ago so I am not sure when they made this change. But people should definitely order a pair if they are having trouble with mouse stability.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> So logitech updated their mouse feet recently. I had some problem with my mouse feet wearing out on hard pads, I have gone through 2 sets of mouse feet already and I just received the two new sets of mouse feet. The original had very round corners and were more oval on the surface which made the mouse extremely slick and floaty. The new mouse feet are cut so they are not glossy, they are extremely matte and cut straight so there is no curve to them. The mouse feels much better on a cloth pad and feels a bit more stable. I had the 1512 G303 and ordered extra feet the day I bought it about 3-4 months ago so I am not sure when they made this change. But people should definitely order a pair if they are having trouble with mouse stability.


where to order, please?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

I *really* want to try this mouse, but am worried if I don't like it.

Is there anyway I can order it, and should I not be happy, reutrn it and get a refund?


----------



## Melan

You have like 1-2 weeks to return the product if you don't like it. At least in EU.


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> I *really* want to try this mouse, but am worried if I don't like it.
> 
> Is there anyway I can order it, and should I not be happy, reutrn it and get a refund?


it depends on where you live, consumer laws etc... here in Spain when you buy something you have 14 days to decide if you want to keep it or return it, I'm assuming similar laws for EU aswell


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Thanks for the answers guys!

I live in the UK so I imagine I shall be okay, right? (From Amazon, say?)

(Pretend that I open it, use it for a few hours and dislike it, but it works fine)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Amazon is usually good with returns. Just dont destroy the packaging when you open it. If you dont like it you can just claim it has rattle.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Lovely! Thanks









I think I'll buy both the G502 and 303 and return them if I don't like it ... I just salivate for that sensor though!!


----------



## Azmath

Well, if Romania has a consumer law that says you can return a product bought online in 14 days without needing a specific reason, i guess UK has one too. I hope this link answers you questions.
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/i-want-to-return-my-goods-what-are-my-rights


----------



## Eutheran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> where to order, please?


http://support.logitech.com/product/gaming-mouse-g303


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Ooooh bois ! Amazon prepare your legal team because I'm so gonna abuse this law!









I can try any mouse for simply P&P price and if I like it, I keep it for the original price! Thanks guys!!

G502 and G303 testing here I come!!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Before you do you might want to read this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/ref%3Dhelp_forum_tft_tp%3Fie%3DUTF8%26cdForum%3DFx2NFGOONPZEXIP%26cdThread%3DTx1IS0VNGMKXPXQ


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Before you do you might want to read this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/forums/ref%3Dhelp_forum_tft_tp%3Fie%3DUTF8%26cdForum%3DFx2NFGOONPZEXIP%26cdThread%3DTx1IS0VNGMKXPXQ


Frankieonpcin1080p would be a gonna by now then. What's more, it's just two mice and I could always make a new account right?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

They ban you by address lol


----------



## wareya

get a PO box, problem solved


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Or you can just get Amazon Prime. Amazon is probably far more lenient to paying customers than the penny pinchers like me who use exploits to get free shipping.


----------



## wareya

PO boxes are useful for more things than trying out various different models of paraphernalia


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Or you can just get Amazon Prime. Amazon is probably far more lenient to paying customers than the penny pinchers like me who use exploits to get free shipping.


This seems unlikely ... Not worth risking £80 lol


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

It would cover the money it costs them to deal with return maniacs like ourselves.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

I might do it if Top-Gear was 'on' now on Amazon Prime, but meh ... (Pound)10 to try two mice is not stupid for me; besides, I might keep one of 'em.

(Sorry, don't have a UK keyboard with me atm)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I guess if its like twice it probably doesn't matter. Im merely advising caution that abusing could possibly get you banned from Amazon.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Which feet work best with the G303? I'd love a nicer glide. (I have to order from ebay with internation free shipping, so some limitations)
How are these : The Competition one 0.3mm or 0.6mm


----------



## Melan

You need at least 0.5mm feet for G303. 0.3mm are stacked on top of original feet. Glide is the same with competition and performance types.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Packed this in it's box today. Don't know if that will be permanent though. Still haven't come across anything _recently released_ that can top it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You need at least 0.5mm feet for G303. 0.3mm are stacked on top of original feet. Glide is the same with competition and performance types.


Okay,good to know. Saved me 2 bucks. Glide-wise,is it better than stock?
P.S. I have Tiger Gaming feet for a Deathadder ,can I just stick them on the g303?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I throw in a wild card I never seen mentioned http://www.acousticpc.com/ultimat_add_n_slide.html

Teflon dots basically. I completely wasted them when I first got them and regret it. Now whenever I see one occasionally in my desk drawer still somehow sticking to some random object I remind myself I should try them again. That and one got stuck under my W key once. Still don't get that one.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25pcs-Logitech-MX518-V1-0-MX500-MX510-MX700-MX900-3M-Teflon-mouse-Feet-Mat-Skate-/141150559596?hash=item20dd3a9d6c:g:14QAAOxyRhBSvTkO What do you guys think about this? Worth?


----------



## LunaTiC123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/25pcs-Logitech-MX518-V1-0-MX500-MX510-MX700-MX900-3M-Teflon-mouse-Feet-Mat-Skate-/141150559596?hash=item20dd3a9d6c:g:14QAAOxyRhBSvTkO What do you guys think about this? Worth?


for the g303? hotwheels1997 posted earlier that hotline released their mouse feet for the g303

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ


----------



## pinobot

Thanks man I was looking for the Hotline G303 skates.
Ordered 2 packs of the competition version.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LunaTiC123*
> 
> for the g303? hotwheels1997 posted earlier that hotline released their mouse feet for the g303
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ


Ik but 25 skates for 8$?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Are these skates really any better than the stock ones? :O


----------



## pinobot

They are really good, if they weren't i would say so.
You'll have to try it to believe it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Well I just got 8 sets of Hotline GamesCompetition 0.6mm WMO skates from Takasta's shop for 10USD.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



senpai noticed me http://puu.sh/kVYF5/f144b3b7ce.jpg


----------



## yukino

I had to downgrade my software, cuz they removed voice morphing!! how can you?

my question:

is 95.2.26 the newest firmware for the g303?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

aaannndddd unboxed and using it again. 2.2m/s pcs I can easily adjust to and have in the past. But I cannot adjust to +3mm high lod, Copperhead's fatal flaw.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> aaannndddd unboxed and using it again. 2.2m/s pcs I can easily adjust to and have in the past. But I cannot adjust to +3mm high lod, Copperhead's fatal flaw.


Sorry to be a noob, but what's PCS? Is that malfunction speed?

What's wrong with a high Lod out of interest?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> What's wrong with a high Lod out of interest?


Ugh, started typing up this really long explanation.

I'll just say that I was holding the mouse in mid air and using it like that last night. It was pretty bad. Supposedly there is way to control the laser output strength with the Linux razer tool? Sounds like a pipe dream.

Welp back to Krait,Diamondback,Copperhead projects while the G303 stays as my main.


----------



## detto87

I started using the G303 again a week or two ago. .... Well, this is what I now have to deal with, no kidding:


----------



## Melan

Is that a glass/metal mouse pad? Because placing your wrist on cold surface all the time is a big NO-NO. You'll regret it A LOT later on (and which is, actually, looks like the problem you're having right now).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I started using the G303 again a week or two ago. .... Well, this is what I now have to deal with, no kidding:


People don't want to listen to the warnings?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/3990_30#post_24456961

I stopped using the G303 a few days after receiving it. I was already having severe pain after a few play sessions. I learned my lesson a long time ago when I messed up my wrist using a metal mouse pad and a high sensitivity. So, I immediately got a refund for the G303.


----------



## Melan

People don't listen to your warnings because not everyone forces a hand to grip a mouse. Neither everyone uses these silly glass/metal mousepads and then complain about wrist pains. If the shape doesn't fit your hand after an hour of play - DON'T USE IT. Took me 5 minutes to readjust from FK1 to G302, no pains, no problems since the release of G302 shape.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I have difficulties understanding how one can get his hand injured by using a mouse. I used an uncomfortable mouse for over a year before buying a new one and it was all fine. Getting pain from using a mouse is beyond my understanding, an injury seems impossible.


----------



## Melan

Someone's gotta blame the tool.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I have difficulties understanding how one can get his hand injured by using a mouse. I used an uncomfortable mouse for over a year before buying a new one and it was all fine. Getting pain from using a mouse is beyond my understanding, an injury seems impossible.


you're clearly not moving your mouse hand enough


----------



## darkfirebg

Hello guys, a quick question: How is your g303 detected in windows device manager? Mine says HID-compliant mouse and is therefore using the standard microsoft driver from 2006..


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Hello guys, a quick question: How is your g303 detected in windows device manager? Mine says HID-compliant mouse and is therefore using the standard microsoft driver from 2006..


You need to install the LGS for it to be detected as a G303.


----------



## darkfirebg

I have Logitech Gaming Software 8.75 installed..


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> People don't listen to your warnings because not everyone forces a hand to grip a mouse. Neither everyone uses these silly glass/metal mousepads and then complain about wrist pains. If the shape doesn't fit your hand after an hour of play - DON'T USE IT. Took me 5 minutes to readjust from FK1 to G302, no pains, no problems since the release of G302 shape.


Finger tip users don't really "grasp" a mouse. That applies to some "claw" grip player too.

Hard mats (plastic, metal, glass) are popular and are better for tracking. People who don't use them usually say it's because they are to small, wear out faster and are not portable. I switched from metal and plastic to cloth because of size and wear issues. I'm still waiting to stumble upon a cloth pad I like.

Every mouse I have used, with exception of the Intellimouse, didn't "fit" my hand. I continued using them because they were the only products worth using. However, I wasn't hurt/injured by any of them like I was with the G303, they were simply uncomfortable for me.

I adjusted to the G303 in minutes. The problem I had was with my decreased precision using the grip position the G303 forces you to use. I would have to change my sensitivity to remain consistent. This is why pro GO players switched away from the G303 to the G100S or G402 (they said it themselves).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I have difficulties understanding how one can get his hand injured by using a mouse. I used an uncomfortable mouse for over a year before buying a new one and it was all fine. Getting pain from using a mouse is beyond my understanding, an injury seems impossible.


Maybe because you don't have a firm grip style and use a high sensitivity? Players that tend to get "injuries" play for many hours a day every week and force themselves to be precise regardless of discomfort.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Someone's gotta blame the tool.


I guess if someone designed a pair of shoes that were not shaped for the human foot it's a good design as long as people don't wear them. It would really suck if those were the only pair of shoes offered to humans with that foot size.


----------



## Melan

It's amazing that you keep using a mouse that "forces you". If it really "forces you" then drop it immediately. I did the same with DA which was downright unusable for me.

You making it sound like G303 was threatening you with a gun.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I guess if someone designed a pair of shoes that were not shaped for the human foot it's a good design as long as people don't wear them. It would really suck if those were the only pair of shoes offered to humans with that foot size.


And yet, here we are, people that use that "weird shaped" mouse with no issues and happy about it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It's amazing that you keep using a mouse that "forces you". If it really "forces you" then drop it immediately. I did the same with DA which was downright unusable for me.
> 
> You making it sound like G303 was threatening you with a gun.
> 
> And yet, here we are, people that use that "weird shaped" mouse with no issues and happy about it.


Is there any other mouse besides the G502 using the 3366?

Some people can't ignore the performance of the 3366 and they are not willing to buy/use a discontinued product. There is no other current day sensor that performs like a 3366. You have to settle for higher post processing or lower malfunction speed. I wasn't tempted to keep the G303 because I already have a bunch of mice with older sensors.

The majority of people who own the G302/G303 do not like the shape and it appears many of the minority that do like it would be happier if the shape was tweaked.

Out of 13 Logitech sponsored pro GO players (I know of) only 1-3 of them are "okay" using the G302/G303 shape. The last I heard, one of those players is contemplating switching to a G100S. So, that's like 1 or 2 pro level players still willing to use the G302/G303 shape (that's until I ask or hear those TSM players' opinions).

Now I would like to know how many casual players would choose to use the G302 or G303 if they had access to every current product for free. I think it would be lower than the current numbers because there wouldn't be any purchase bias.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Is there any other mouse besides the G502 using the 3366?
> 
> Some people can't ignore the performance of the 3366 and they are not willing to buy/use a discontinued product. There is no other current day sensor that performs like a 3366. You have to settle for higher post processing or lower malfunction speed. I wasn't tempted to keep the G303 because I already have a bunch of mice with older sensors.


But most people have no clue whatever that sensor you're talking about and just buy whatever mouse that is comfortable for them, which is the entire point of it. You can adjust to the sensor performance, you won't adjust to the feeling of poop in your hand. You people seem to buy into "sensor stuff" as good as those "casuals" buy into over 9000 CPI marketing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The majority of people who own the G302/G303 do not like the shape and it appears many of the minority that do like it would be happier if the shape was tweaked.


I can agree that shape and weight aren't the best around and would require tweaking (I mean, did you see how much plastic they've put inside? So wasteful. G402 is even worse.)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Out of 13 Logitech sponsored pro GO players (I know of) only 1-3 of them are "okay" using the G302/G303 shape. The last I heard, one of those players is contemplating switching to a G100S. So, that's like 1 or 2 pro level players still willing to use the G302/G303 shape (that's until I ask or hear those TSM players' opinions).


What "pros" use doesn't mean a thing. It's just an opinion, such as yours, mine and everyone else. If they want to switch to G100S for whatever reason, it's their decision based on comfort. If it works better then use it. I'm yet to see a person whose performance changed dramatically by switching peripherals. Forgot to add, most of the time their opinion got paid for anyways, so listening to them is kinda pointless.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Now I would like to know how many casual players would choose to use the G302 or G303 if they had access to every current product for free. I think it would be lower than the current numbers because there wouldn't be any purchase bias.


We both know that razer would be a go-to brand. New year's soon and we need some lights yo.


----------



## delledonne

Doctors had to amputate my hand because of g303. I now regret my purchase.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> I have Logitech Gaming Software 8.75 installed..


Idk lol maybe reinstall?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delledonne*
> 
> Doctors had to amputate my hand because of g303. I now regret my purchase.


I slept on my G303 and I have now been decaptiated.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delledonne*
> 
> Doctors had to amputate my hand because of g303. I now regret my purchase.


My poor pet, you need some tender love and care from either Mionix, Roccat or Zowie







.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> My poor pet, you need some tender love and care from either Mionix, Roccat or Zowie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


no m8 soothing leds from a razer m00sepad


----------



## Melan

No product will save you from being an Elricks "poor" pet though. That's it, game over buddy.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> My poor pet, you need some tender love and care from either Mionix, Roccat or Zowie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Logitech is best imo. They seriously need to fire who designed their current line of mice. Its obvious they know how to make grrat shapes in the form of the MX300, G9, and G300 but they keep on making these stupid decisions.


----------



## dgmul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> But most people have no clue whatever that sensor you're talking about and just buy whatever mouse that is comfortable for them, which is the entire point of it. You can adjust to the sensor performance, you won't adjust to the feeling of poop in your hand.


I have to agree. People played and enjoyed computer games before "gaming mice" even existed, using sensors that would be appalling by today's standards. Sure, a better sensor might give you that extra 1% competitive edge, but games aren't really about winning anyway. Playing with a poor mouse shape is unpleasant at best, and at worst it can cause serious consequences like repetitive stress injury.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Games are boring if you lose (and demotivating and frustrating).


----------



## johnsamuels

Getting used to the shape but it is hard work.

This would be mouse of the century in the g100s body, or any other conventional small mouse shape really.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

CM Xornet shape woud be nice. G303 is the only mouse where I have to actively clench my fingers to hold it.


----------



## darkfirebg

Can someone tell me how his mouse is recognized in the device manager? is it "logitech optical gaming mouse g300/g300s"?


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Can someone tell me how his mouse is recognized in the device manager? is it "logitech optical gaming mouse g300/g300s"?


For me, "HID-compliant mouse"


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> you're clearly not moving your mouse hand enough


I do play ~10hr/week . I do have a good and firm grip. My sens is 52cm/360 , plenty of mouse movement . So I'm not sure qhat injuries you're causing yourself.

@popups : Said sens and play time above , I play ESEA and go for precision . This mouse is more uncomfortable in Windows for me , but 1000dpi and micro movements with fingers does the trick .


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Is that a glass/metal mouse pad? Because placing your wrist on cold surface all the time is a big NO-NO. You'll regret it A LOT later on (and which is, actually, looks like the problem you're having right now).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> People don't listen to your warnings because not everyone forces a hand to grip a mouse. Neither everyone uses these silly glass/metal mousepads and then complain about wrist pains. If the shape doesn't fit your hand after an hour of play - DON'T USE IT. Took me 5 minutes to readjust from FK1 to G302, no pains, no problems since the release of G302 shape.


Yes it is a metal pad. I didn't use it with the G303 though. I used the G303 on my wooden table at that time. (metal pad was shipping to me at that point)
I can easily play on that metal pad with the Rival or IE3.0 though.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I stopped using the G303 a few days after receiving it. I was already having severe pain after a few play sessions. I learned my lesson a long time ago when I messed up my wrist using a metal mouse pad and a high sensitivity. So, I immediately got a refund for the G303.


Maybe the combination of me using G303 again, on a hard wooden table, and upping the sensitivity (so precise movements needed some crampings) was too much for my hand. I used the G303 for longer periods of time just fine before when I had almost half the sens and needed almost pure arm movement instead of wrist movement.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Some people can't ignore the performance of the 3366 and they are not willing to buy/use a discontinued product. There is no other current day sensor that performs like a 3366. You have to settle for higher post processing or lower malfunction speed. I wasn't tempted to keep the G303 because I already have a bunch of mice with older sensors.


The reason why I always unpacked the G303 again after a while but after 2 weeks it's back in the box again because of the shape dislikes. Now it stays there because of the injury it caused me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Maybe because you don't have a firm grip style and use a high sensitivity? Players that tend to get "injuries" play for many hours a day every week and force themselves to be precise regardless of discomfort.
> I guess if someone designed a pair of shoes that were not shaped for the human foot it's a good design as long as people don't wear them. It would really suck if those were the only pair of shoes offered to humans with that foot size.


Pretty much this.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I have difficulties understanding how one can get his hand injured by using a mouse. I used an uncomfortable mouse for over a year before buying a new one and it was all fine. Getting pain from using a mouse is beyond my understanding, an injury seems impossible.


I ALWAYS thought the same. I couldn't get my hand around those statements and was happy to use every mouse shape in every grip I wanted to. Well... the pain it caused me now has teached me.


----------



## coccosoids

So hello to everyone.

I've been looking for a new mouse for almost a year now. For work. I repeat: for *work*.
I think I'm mostly a finger tip user, that's what I feel gives me the most control. The problem I'm having is that I'm lately getting very nasty cramps in my wrist. Something like tendonitis. Next to that I get a sore index finger after a long day of use, mainly from middle clicking. And to top it off because of the combination of grip style and mouse ergonomics I am getting a curbed, deformed ring finger.

What I've tried so far:

*Corsair M60*: very bad, heavy, would say almost for palm grip, maybe claw. The most disgusting and hard middle click on any mouse.
*Razer Orochi*: too small, center of gravity weird, has sharp features that are discomforting for the ring finger.
*CM Xornet*: maybe slightly discomforting, the cable is way too thick and heavy for such a light mouse, drags. Have a weird feeling of tension in the hand while holding. Would say is quite tiring.
And various others. Right now I'm using this: a4Tech weird little guy

This a4Tech is pretty good because of the size, but the middle click is not great at all and it has a sharp feature on the right side that really hurts my ring finger after long periods of use.

I am now looking at these two:

Zowie EC2 A
and
Logitech g303
and
Kinzu V3
and
CAD mouse

Any thoughts? Any other models I should consider?!
Thanks.


----------



## detto87

Logitech Performance MX or similar. Why use sth with cable and bad quality if you can go with high quality and actual good shapes?


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Logitech Performance MX or similar. Why use sth with cable and bad quality if you can go with high quality and actual good shapes?


Thanks. But how is that in ANY way recommended for fingertip / claw grip like users?!


----------



## johnsamuels

If it is for work then just get a g100s.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> If it is for work then just get a g100s.


Do you know if I can find somewhere a comparison between them?! G100s and G303?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Can someone tell me how his mouse is recognized in the device manager? is it "logitech optical gaming mouse g300/g300s"?


I think you might have a fake G303 lol


----------



## johnsamuels

Mine is HID compliant device. Should it not be?


----------



## Melan

It should, because it is a HID compliant device.


----------



## coccosoids

I have edited my post above to include links to Kinzu V3 and / or Cadmouse!

I'm wondering if I should open a separate thread since things are getting serious...


----------



## hotwheels1997

What is the width of the mouse,at the point of grip, aka infront of the edges?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I have edited my post above to include links to Kinzu V3 and / or Cadmouse!
> 
> I'm wondering if I should open a separate thread since things are getting serious...


I'd ask on the official mouse thread (look at stickies).


----------



## Chuck89

As i encountered some problems with my Avior SK (7000), i thought of getting a replacement for it until i will be able to exchange the avior under warranty. I tested the G502 last year, but had to send it back due to some faults. However, i loved the sensor.

So, i thought of picking up the G303. Luckily, i was able to get a short impression of the G303 in a store a few days ago. The shape seems ok, the mouse clicks feel great (better than those of the avior in fact) and the mouse wheel seems reliable. I was asking myself: is this enough to risk a purchase?

After reading some stuff about the "rattling" problem of the G303 here, im actually quite frustated. I did really think this would be an easy choice... I would hate to go through the replacement lottery once again.

Is this problem fixed or should i avoid buying this mouse?


----------



## johnsamuels

FYI re the wheel rattle, mine had a very minor rattle the first few days but it has disappeared completely now. Not sure why.


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> As i encountered some problems with my Avior SK (7000), i thought of getting a replacement for it until i will be able to exchange the avior under warranty. I tested the G502 last year, but had to send it back due to some faults. However, i loved the sensor.
> 
> So, i thought of picking up the G303. Luckily, i was able to get a short impression of the G303 in a store a few days ago. The shape seems ok, the mouse clicks feel great (better than those of the avior in fact) and the mouse wheel seems reliable. I was asking myself: is this enough to risk a purchase?
> 
> After reading some stuff about the "rattling" problem of the G303 here, im actually quite frustated. I did really think this would be an easy choice... I would hate to go through the replacement lottery once again.
> 
> Is this problem fixed or should i avoid buying this mouse?


As far as i know, there are rattle-free revisions.. but know this, my mouse have the rattling issue but it's not affecting mouse performance/sensor movement..


----------



## jtl999

I fixed the rattle with electrical tape and careful placement via magnifier glass and a steady handy to avoid getting into the way of the sensor.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> and a steady handy


Heh, steady handy.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Heh, steady handy.


Old age kicks in early for most ... I try holding a laser pointer steady and I might get lucky for a few seconds


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I stuck orings under the lens to fix my G303 (between lens and pcb)


----------



## jtl999

Took apart my Logitech G303 and old G400 last night. Took some pictures with Canon T5i in high resolution for research. Will post later. Also moved thin G400 cable to G303. Feels much better but the shape still throws me off.

TL;DR is that the architecture between the G303 and the G400 (and maybe MX518) is very different. Top shell has a board with 6 pins for all the buttons (except for the DPI up) and the scroll wheel is actually mounted to the board, unlike the G303 (anyone know how G303 wheel works/connects to the board as it's part of the top shell and I don't see any cable) So throw your dreams of a 3366 in a G400 shell for the foreseeable future.

I also own a FK1 and the design with how the side buttons connect seems a bit more promising. Couldn't find many dissasmbly pictures of it other then the one's in Ino's review. I will take mine apart if needed but don't want to trash the feet (put the 2nd pair on








)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I filed down the edges so they aren't as sharp and damn... its such a huge difference. My hand is more relaxed now and thus my aim has improved slightly due to decreased muscle tension.


----------



## jtl999

Pictures?

I have problems drawing circles at windows desktop with g303 lol


----------



## aerowalk30

303 uses an optical encoder, the problem like you mentioned is the way they mounted the 303 wheel to the top shell, it is pretty completely integrated. The G400 also uses an optical scroll-wheel. but mounted on the bottom PCB rather then the top shell.


----------



## jtl999

My point. G502 looks better in that regard, although sensor and main PCB are separate I think.

Some guy named "h8m3" on esreality did the g303 (i think) in the G100s. Has the top mounted scroll wheel as well and the stock PCB otherwise looks kind of like G400.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Took apart my Logitech G303 and old G400 last night. Took some pictures with Canon T5i in high resolution for research. Will post later. Also moved thin G400 cable to G303. Feels much better but the shape still throws me off.
> 
> TL;DR is that the architecture between the G303 and the G400 (and maybe MX518) is very different. Top shell has a board with 6 pins for all the buttons (except for the DPI up) and the scroll wheel is actually mounted to the board, unlike the G303 (anyone know how G303 wheel works/connects to the board as it's part of the top shell and I don't see any cable) So throw your dreams of a 3366 in a G400 shell for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I also own a FK1 and the design with how the side buttons connect seems a bit more promising. Couldn't find many dissasmbly pictures of it other then the one's in Ino's review. I will take mine apart if needed but don't want to trash the feet (put the 2nd pair on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Is it not possible to just pure tranplant the PCB? As in, no need to connect anything other than ensure the PCB is firmly in place (as long as is it is powered and connected to the USB connection).


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Is it not possible to just pure tranplant the PCB? As in, no need to connect anything other than ensure the PCB is firmly in place (as long as is it is powered and connected to the USB connection).


I thought so as well. But think about sensor position, making sure the buttons line up for the micro switches. How to deal with the scroll wheel on the board instead of on the top shell, etc.


----------



## fuzzybass

Oh God... I seriously tried to give this mouse a good try. I've had it for a few months now, used it on and off, not sure whether I gave it a fair chance...

And now I'm pretty sure I'm over the shape. Whenever I need to make fine and precise movements with the mouse, let's say moving the mouse cursor to exactly the correct letter when renaming a file, it's a complete pain in the ass to move it there, because of its irregular shape. My fingers can't control the mouse when it has these ridiculous angles, and it takes all these micro back-and-forth movements just to rename a fking file.

My hand needs to CONTROL the freaking mouse - how in the hell did Logitech expect people to control a _diamond_-shaped mouse?

It's seriously ludicrous. Call me overly dramatic, I don't care. I'm seriously just throwing this in the bin, and using the Avior I have in my drawer.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Oh God... I seriously tried to give this mouse a good try. I've had it for a few months now, used it on and off, not sure whether I gave it a fair chance...
> 
> And now I'm pretty sure I'm over the shape. Whenever I need to make fine and precise movements with the mouse, let's say moving the mouse cursor to exactly the correct letter when renaming a file, it's a complete pain in the ass to move it there, because of its irregular shape. My fingers can't control the mouse when it has these ridiculous angles, and it takes all these micro back-and-forth movements just to rename a fking file.
> 
> My hand needs to CONTROL the freaking mouse - how in the hell did Logitech expect people to control a _diamond_-shaped mouse?
> 
> It's seriously ludicrous. Call me overly dramatic, I don't care. I'm seriously just throwing this in the bin, and using the Avior I have in my drawer.


Maybe sell it to people who want the PCB?


----------



## Ickz

Anyone found a place to buy a good flexible replacement cable that I could just put in the 303 without having to mess with any of the wires and whatnot? Would be a plus if it also had a stress relief thing on it that also fit where the 303's goes.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Oh God... I seriously tried to give this mouse a good try. I've had it for a few months now, used it on and off, not sure whether I gave it a fair chance...
> 
> And now I'm pretty sure I'm over the shape. Whenever I need to make fine and precise movements with the mouse, let's say moving the mouse cursor to exactly the correct letter when renaming a file, it's a complete pain in the ass to move it there, because of its irregular shape. My fingers can't control the mouse when it has these ridiculous angles, and it takes all these micro back-and-forth movements just to rename a fking file.
> 
> My hand needs to CONTROL the freaking mouse - how in the hell did Logitech expect people to control a _diamond_-shaped mouse?
> 
> It's seriously ludicrous. Call me overly dramatic, I don't care. I'm seriously just throwing this in the bin, and using the Avior I have in my drawer.


Exact same situation as you :/


----------



## coccosoids

I would advise this is a mouse for 18+ cm palms. Shorter palms and you can't grab anything properly on it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I would advise this is a mouse for 18+ cm palms. Shorter palms and you can't grab anything properly on it.


Around 17.5cm here. Seems fine. What's your problem with it?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I would advise this is a mouse for 18+ cm palms. Shorter palms and you can't grab anything properly on it.


18.5cm hands here and I can't palm it at all. I can only fingertip grip it/claw it.


----------



## b0z0

I've used this mouse for a week now and I haven't noticed any pain in my wrist, or hand..


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I've used this mouse for a week now and I haven't noticed any pain in my wrist, or hand..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I've used this mouse for a week now


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> for a week


Give your opinion in 6 month's time


----------



## b0z0

Guess you can act like an ass since I've posted my thought's after a week


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Around 17.5cm here. Seems fine. What's your problem with it?


In short this:



Red: ring and little finger contact zone. The sharp edge of the mouse cuts directly through my ring finger intermediate phalange. Many mice do this. I already have a small ring finger deformation from years of extended mouse use, and this does not help.

Green: due to the combined factors of my palm length / finger length that is where my index finger makes contact with mouse button 1 in it's most natural position on this mouse. Now - contrary to what some say, spring loaded buttons etc... the force and feedback of these buttons is not 100% on all button area. The marked zone has a noticeable harder feel, requiring a little more force thus inducing strain more rapidly.

Blue: center of gravity leans forward with this mouse which is dumb... for me at least. If I had longer hands I would maybe find it more reasonable but right now the forwarding leaning center of gravity makes it really easy to overshoot with the cursor.

That's only the start... I haven't even loaded the other pictures. I'm quite upset because I've been looking for a mouse for a long time and it seems that I can't find anything that suits me.

I think this is a good device, but I would personally recommend it for smaller than 18 cm palms.


----------



## TriviumKM

6 months' worth of use here and no pain, but the shape could use a bit of tweaking.


----------



## Ickz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Give your opinion in 6 month's time


I've been using it since it was released. Most comfortable mouse I've ever used. It's all about the grip you use I guess.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I've been using it since it was released. Most comfortable mouse I've ever used. It's all about the grip you use I guess.


And how many mice did you use?!


----------



## b0z0

I currently own 10+ mice atm.


----------



## Ickz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> And how many mice did you use?!


Mice I've put tons of hours in since opticals came out:
MSIE
MSIE 3.0
mx500
g5
g5v2
mx518
g400
g500
g402
g303
Lachesis
Deathadder
Kone+
Fk
Fk1
Sensei
Rival

g303 is my all time fav. Only complaint is cord.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

You must have alien like hands. My fragile loli fingers can't stand to hold it for more than 30 minutes at a time now. It used to be 3-4 hours then I started getting hand pains.


----------



## Melan

It's not his "alien-like" hands, it's your bones that are stupidly fragile if they deform so easily. Go see a doctor before you start falling apart.


----------



## Ickz

Like I said, I guess it's just what grip people are used to. Luckily mine perfectly fits the shape of the g303. My thumb and ring finger grip the diamond "points" on the sides. I'm assuming the people who find it uncomfortable are gripping further up that area where it starts to point in - that does seem like it would be horrible.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My grip viewed from bottom. I hold it smack at where the points are but they keep sliding inwards forcing my hand into a / \ position which gives me hand cramps.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> I'm assuming the people who find it uncomfortable are gripping further up that area where it starts to point in - that does seem like it would be horrible.


You mean like that?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









Used G302 like that too. No problem what so ever, especially if you take into account that I spend my time at computer at least 8 hours a day (sometimes even more).


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My grip viewed from bottom. I hold it smack at where the points are but they keep sliding inwards forcing my hand into a / \ position which gives me hand cramps.


That's probably because it's not supposed to be held like that. You're also probably putting more force into big, ring and pinky than you should thus you get the cramps.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That's probably because it's not supposed to be held like that. You're also probably putting more force into big, ring and pinky than you should thus you get the cramps.


Its the only grip I can use with my G303 that allows me to move the mouse at a fast rate.


----------



## Melan

Yeah well, my point still stands. "You're holding it wrong".


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Then what is the "right way" to hold it? lol


----------



## Melan

Look above.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Look above.


I used to grip it like that and that's what caused my ring finger to get messed up.


----------



## Melan

And again we're returning to the point of "It can't get messed up because of a mouse", unless your bones are very weak and your squeezing makes all kinds of bad things happen. But that's a medical issue that SHOULD be looked into, not blamed on a peripheral.


----------



## fuzzybass

No thanks. I need the satisfaction in throwing it away.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> And again we're returning to the point of "It can't get messed up because of a mouse", unless your bones are very weak and your squeezing makes all kinds of bad things happen. But that's a medical issue that SHOULD be looked into, not blamed on a peripheral.


Are you seriously saying peripherals can be in any shape or form, and they wouldn't do any damage to our hands?


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I used to grip it like that and that's what caused my ring finger to get messed up.


Learn to adapt.. if our ancestors thought like you we'd still be sitting around in caves


----------



## fuzzybass

You guys have got to be kidding me. There are limits to how much a person's hand can "adapt" to a utensil. Our hands aren't Transformers or Mighty Morphing Power Ranger hands.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> Learn to adapt.. if our ancestors thought like you we'd still be sitting around in caves


I did try to adapt. Claw grip and palm grip doesn't work because the mouse doesnt have a big enough butt. I tried hand exercises to increase how long I can use a pure fingertip grip for with limited improvements. My grip stamina hasnt improved in the past 11 months since I started using this shape (I had the G302).


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys have got to be kidding me. There are limits to how much a person's hand can "adapt" to a utensil. Our hands aren't Transformers or Mighty Morphing Power Ranger hands.


The chinese eat with chopsticks... How ergonomically different is that from a fork and knife?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Chopsticks were meant to be held in a relaxed manner. This mouse isn't without sacrificing movement speed or some other compromise.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> The chinese eat with chopsticks... How ergonomically different is that from a fork and knife?


How the hell are you comparing chopsticks to a G303 mouse?


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> How the hell are you comparing chopsticks to a G303 mouse?


Lol.. my point wasn't to emphasize kitchen utensils. It was to highlight the degree of adaptation capable of our mighty morphing power ranger hands. No need to continue on this topic if you cannot connect the dots


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I have already tried every other grip I could think of and the fingertip grip is the only one that doesnt make me tilt the mouse or affect how fast I can move the mouse. The biggest problem is stamina expenditure and cramps. There's a limit to how long I can hold the mouse like that without my fingers shaking and I have to take longj breaks in between and deal with a burning sensation in my hand. Despite this I still use this mouse because its the closest thing to a non smoothed mouse that I have on me atm that isnt a brick.


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I have already tried every other grip I could think of and the fingertip grip is the only one that doesnt make me tilt the mouse or affect how fast I can move the mouse. The biggest problem is stamina expenditure and cramps.


I don't know what to tell you. I'm transitioning from years of using the three variations of MLT04 to the g303 with no problem.

I was in the military for several years; can't tell you if it's the training that made me able to adapt or the time I spent sacking off overseas that strengthened my grip and hand "stamina". Good luck regardless


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> No thanks. I need the satisfaction in throwing it away.
> Are you seriously saying peripherals can be in any shape or form, and they wouldn't do any damage to our hands?


No, I don't remember my self saying that at all.

If shape isn't comfortable to you on day one, *do not god damn use it*. How many times more do I have to repeat it?
Your hand WILL CRAMP if you try to squeeze any mouse, let alone handle it uncomfortably for hours. My hand is relaxed, comfortably claw gripping the mouse. But my hand also cramps if I squeeze G303 hard, thus I don't do it. This doesn't make mouse bad, self inflicted wounds aren't Logitech's fault.

If you do it your bones won't deform, no. It takes far more force to do that and you're most likely to break the mouse shell before you actually do any meaningful damage to your bones. That, if you don't have some kind of disease which makes your bones brittle, then we'll have another talk.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Chopsticks were meant to be held in a relaxed manner. This mouse isn't without sacrificing movement speed or some other compromise.


Mice were designed to be held in a relaxed manner too. I actually tried holding G303 like you did. It doesn't require any force at all when held like that. Movement speed and control remain unchanged. Of course if I squeeze it, my fingers slip and palm start hurting from excessive force.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I still have growth plates >







its not a disease right?


----------



## jjpjimmy

I'm going from years of ergonomic mouse to this flat mouse. I too have no trouble adjusting for the g303...I had more trouble trying to adjust for the g502's sniper button.

Although I'm still gripping the mouse like an ergonomic mouse, without any rests. So my fingers have a gap and never entirely resting on the mouse. Only the fingertips and very slightly the area where my pinky and ring finger end.

As for the stamina, seems like a problem that's far beyond the mouse. How's your forearm strength? How about those pull ups?


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> Lol.. my point wasn't to emphasize kitchen utensils. It was to highlight the degree of adaptation capable of our mighty morphing power ranger hands. No need to continue on this topic if you cannot connect the dots


Yea, and I'm saying, comparing our ability to adapt to eating utensils to our ability to adapt to mice is a bad comparison, because they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

Yes, our hands can adapt to use chopsticks. But what if those chopsticks were hexagonal shaped? Octogon shape? Would we be able to adapt just as easily? Most likely not. As I said, there are limits. And for some, mice shaped like the G303 hits on some people's limits.

It's just ridiculous that you're telling someone they're "wrong" for not being able to adjust to a mouse's shape. If it doesn't work for them, it just doesn't work for them.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> But what if those chopsticks were hexagonal shaped? Octogon shape?


You haven't been to many japanese/chinese restaurants, have you?

I've seen things. No, didn't feel any different.


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Yea, and I'm saying, comparing our ability to adapt to eating utensils to our ability to adapt to mice is a bad comparison, because they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
> 
> Yes, our hands can adapt to use chopsticks. But what if those chopsticks were hexagonal shaped? Octogon shape? Would we be able to adapt just as easily? Most likely not. As I said, there are limits. And for some, mice shaped like the G303 hits on some people's limits.
> 
> It's just ridiculous that you're telling someone they're "wrong" for not being able to adjust to a mouse's shape. If it doesn't work for them, it just doesn't work for them.


Just stop, you're making a fool of yourself.. Why are you quoting wrong and directing that to me when that was melan


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The omly way I can hold this mouse with afingertip grip is by clenching. If I relax my fingers then my hand would not be gripping the mouse in any way or form. I would just be touching air. If no ome realized by now my palm makes zero contact with the mouse The mouse's butt is too small and flat.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The omly way I can hold this mouse with afingertip grip is by clenching. If I relax my fingers then my hand would not be gripping the mouse in any way or form. I would just be touching air. If no ome realized by now my palm makes zero contact with the mouse The mouse's butt is too small and flat.


So you're not using it as intended. You keep applying excessive force to hand, ergo the cramps. Same will be with any other mouse if you keep the squeeze on. Stop squeezing.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

If I do squeeze the mouse flys out of my hand the instant I move it fast. Its impossible to have a relaxed yet stable grip with this mouse. Also the low LOD forces me to hold it in a specific manner or the sensor would simply stop tracking which is catastrophic for any game.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You haven't been to many japanese/chinese restaurants, have you?
> 
> I've seen things. No, didn't feel any different.


So you're saying there are Chinese/Japanese restaurants with hexagonal and octagonal chopsticks? ROFL.

I'm a Korean-American, living in Los Angeles, which probably has the biggest Chinese and Japanese towns in America. I've been to plenty of Chinese and Japanese restaurants.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> Just stop, you're making a fool of yourself.. Why are you quoting wrong and directing that to me when that was melan


I have no idea what you're talking about. I was responding to comments you made.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> If I do squeeze the mouse flys out of my hand the instant I move it fast. Its impossible to have a relaxed yet stable grip with this mouse. Also the low LOD forces me to hold it in a specific manner or the sensor would simply stop tracking which is catastrophic for any game.


Well it's obvious that your grip isn't secure. Especially if your hands sweat, mouse will fly on the first high speed swing.

But let's get back to the main topic, which was pain related. Why did you keep using it while being aware that it hurts you? And was it for 6 months, or am I mistaken?


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ickz*
> 
> Mice I've put tons of hours in since opticals came out:
> MSIE
> MSIE 3.0
> mx500
> g5
> g5v2
> mx518
> g400
> g500
> g402
> g303
> Lachesis
> Deathadder
> Kone+
> Fk
> Fk1
> Sensei
> Rival
> 
> g303 is my all time fav. Only complaint is cord.


The only fingertip 'compatible' shell from all the mice you listed is coincidentally on the G303. I'm not surprised you find it the most comfortable. Provided you have 17+ cm hands I can definitely understand why.
As a little side note, a work mate with ~19cm hands tried the mouse yesterday and is thinking about buying it from me. I am thinking of returning it, since for my hands it's not really usable with a fingertip grip.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> In short this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red: ring and little finger contact zone. The sharp edge of the mouse cuts directly through my ring finger intermediate phalange. Many mice do this. I already have a small ring finger deformation from years of extended mouse use, and this does not help.
> 
> Green: due to the combined factors of my palm length / finger length that is where my index finger makes contact with mouse button 1 in it's most natural position on this mouse. Now - contrary to what some say, spring loaded buttons etc... the force and feedback of these buttons is not 100% on all button area. The marked zone has a noticeable harder feel, requiring a little more force thus inducing strain more rapidly.
> 
> Blue: center of gravity leans forward with this mouse which is dumb... for me at least. If I had longer hands I would maybe find it more reasonable but right now the forwarding leaning center of gravity makes it really easy to overshoot with the cursor.
> 
> That's only the start... I haven't even loaded the other pictures. I'm quite upset because I've been looking for a mouse for a long time and it seems that I can't find anything that suits me.
> 
> I think this is a good device, but I would personally recommend it for smaller than 18 cm palms.


Hi. This is how I grip it:

Maybe thy it out. On the right side,my pinkie sits on the edge,using it as a support and my ring finger is just sitting infront.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well it's obvious that your grip isn't secure. Especially if your hands sweat, mouse will fly on the first high speed swing.
> 
> But let's get back to the main topic, which was pain related. Why did you keep using it while being aware that it hurts you? And was it for 6 months, or am I mistaken?


I have had the "shape" (I had G302) for ~11 months and that particular grip for roughly 10 months. I kept using it because they are the only non smoothed mice that have good mouse buttons. And yes I have sweaty hands.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I have had the "shape" (I had G302) for ~11 months and that particular grip for roughly 10 months. I kept using it because they are the only non smoothed mice that have good mouse buttons. And yes I have sweaty hands.


Isn't comfort more important to you than good aim? You need good hands, nobody gives a flying f.... about your in-game aim.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Isn't comfort more important to you than good aim? You need good hands, nobody gives a flying f.... about your in-game aim.


Aim>Comfort


----------



## Pa12a

The last couple pages is about one person who likes to torture himself instead of getting a new device and another person who expects people to be the same and adapt and they might cause some mass RSIs later on if people believe in their ways.

Seriously, I'm fine with my G303, but that's because I don't see any benefits of other shells because it doesn't hurt me after longer periods of time and that's just how my hands work, I happen to have very nimble and flexible hands. And I'm very careful about what's good for me and what not. There's rarely been a mouse that I had problems with, just small ones which are like scroll wheels, clicks, etc. but the shape is a waaaay different story that you just can't "adapt" to if it hurts you, boys.

There might be this or that kind of grip which might be good for the mouse but if you don't like it all in the end, don't use it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Aim>Comfort


Without comfort, there'll be no aim at the point when it hurts in no time. AND it's not good for you either.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The problem is despite how much I hate the shape I can't help but come back to it every time because performancewise its just perfect for me. A non smoothed mouse with very high PCS, low click latency, and the best mouse clicks I have ever used.


----------



## fuzzybass

If you keep waffling back and forth, and you want to make a final decision, then ultimately you've gotta weigh the pros with the cons.

Is your dislike of the shape a worthy sacrifice for the pros you've mentioned? Or who knows, maybe after a long enough time, the shape will bother you so much, that the benefits of the G303 just aren't worth it anymore.

I've decided it isn't, because the shape I feel, is even affecting my ability to move the cursor well. Whether or not it affects my gaming performance remains to be seen, but it is definitely affecting my desktop mouse usage.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The problem is despite how much I hate the shape I can't help but come back to it every time because performancewise its just perfect for me. A non smoothed mouse with very high PCS, low click latency, and the best mouse clicks I have ever used.


Best bet for you is to lend a dremel, a soldering gun from someone and gut a G100S once you saved a teeny tiny bit of money up, I got mine for 12 bucks. I just switched back because it was just as good as the G303 for me and the side buttons made me go back to the G303 shell... Not sure if you necessarily need the side buttons.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I dont care for side buttons as I find them a distraction. I already have two G100S shells (one mouse is broken the other is functional) is there a guide to putting the G303 in a G100S?


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I dont care for side buttons as I find them a distraction. I already have two G100S shells (one mouse is broken the other is functional) is there a guide to putting the G303 in a G100S?


Look there: http://www.esreality.com/post/2756719/g303-sensor-inside-g100s/

There's 1 or 2 posts with pictures in them, I just took a rough look at it and just dremel'd my way in there until it fit properly, being careful not to remove any important parts...

I also happen to have h8m3 in my friendslist who made a couple of these before cause I needed advice myself: http://steamcommunity.com/id/h8m3

hope that helps


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I have had the "shape" (I had G302) for ~11 months and that particular grip for roughly 10 months. I kept using it because they are the only non smoothed mice that have good mouse buttons. And yes I have sweaty hands.


Well, that's just down right stupid.


----------



## Brigand253

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The problem is despite how much I hate the shape I can't help but come back to it every time because performancewise its just perfect for me. A non smoothed mouse with very high PCS, low click latency, and the best mouse clicks I have ever used.


I'm in the same situation. I see my G303 sitting on my desk and it keeps tempting me to use it because some of its aspects are unsurpassed by any mouse I've ever used.

Then I use it for a day but I'm always conscious of the shape in my hand. I'm always thinking of how I'm gripping the moise and adjusting. Note that it doesn't cause me pain or discomfort, I just can't forget it's there.

Then I plug my ZA13 back in, and putting my hand on that feels like taking off your dress shoes and putting on comfy slippers after a long day...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brigand253*
> 
> I'm in the same situation. I see my G303 sitting on my desk and it keeps tempting me to use it because some of its aspects are unsurpassed by any mouse I've ever used.
> 
> Then I use it for a day but I'm always conscious of the shape in my hand. I'm always thinking of how I'm gripping the moise and adjusting. Note that it doesn't cause me pain or discomfort, I just can't forget it's there.
> 
> Then I plug my ZA13 back in, and putting my hand on that feels like taking off your dress shoes and putting on comfy slippers after a long day...


Im glad someone understands. And its not just the sensor that's special about this mouse. Its the buttons. They have an extremely fast reset time which is perfect for games that require very fast clicking.


----------



## Melan

I also switched FK1 to G303 because of the buttons for osu. That still doesn't justify the usage of uncomfortable mouse for large period of time to the point where it starts to hurt.


----------



## johnsamuels

I don't know if anyone has tested the click delay on this thing but when you go back to another mouse it feels like you're in slow motion. Way more effort needed to click, feels noticeably slower.

If this was in another shell...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I also switched FK1 to G303 because of the buttons for osu. That still doesn't justify the usage of uncomfortable mouse for large period of time to the point where it starts to hurt.


No other mouse but the G302 comes close to the G303 in terms of overall performance but again same shape if not worse because of the lack of side skates (atleast on the two that I have, not sure if they fixed it in their newer batches)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> No other mouse but the G302 comes close to the G303 in terms of overall performance but again same shape if not worse because of the lack of side skates (atleast on the two that I have, not sure if they fixed it in their newer batches)


Newer batches of the g302 have side skates now.


----------



## iceskeleton

Would lens rattle be visible in mousetester graphs? Would the X velocity at the end of a swipe look different?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Those were from when my murdered spare G303 had the lens cover come off inside the mouse along with the lens rattling.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> No other mouse but the G302 comes close to the G303 in terms of overall performance but again same shape if not worse because of the lack of side skates (atleast on the two that I have, not sure if they fixed it in their newer batches)


This performance is irrelevant if you can't even hold the mouse. Not to mention, there are thousands of people using mice with hardware that will make you elitists throw up, yet *gasp* they will outperform you in any game simply because they can handle the damn thing and focus on the game rather than pain in their hand. Even I can switch to MX500 (A2020) or first batch FK1 (3310) without ANY side effects in my performance.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Those were from when my murdered spare G303 had the lens cover come off inside the mouse along with the lens rattling.


Wait ... you telling me that Lens Rattling did that alone? :O jesus ....


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Wait ... you telling me that Lens Rattling did that alone? :O jesus ....


No lens cover came off, that is what put it over the top. The only way for that to happen is for someone(me) to remove the the led lights inside the lens cover(the ones that color the G logo in the back of the mouse).


----------



## DrSebWilkes

I get you now! I was going to say ...

AFAIK the rattle is a non-serious issue and is merely aural in problem : nothing more.


----------



## wareya

if you hit it sideways with a heavy object like a hammer or another mouse, a loose sensor will "bounce" very visibly on mousetester graphs

you have to make sure that you're not looking at liftoff, though

EDIT: it also happens if you change directions quickly, so if you do the "swipe back and forth several times" thing it'll be totally obvious


----------



## pinobot

How come that when:
I lift the back of the mouse off the mouspad the cursor moves down a bit and when you set it back on the mat it moves up a bit as you'd expect.
But when i lift the front of the mouse of the mousemat the cursor moves down a bit and when i set it back down it moves up a bit also.
Weird.

Made myself a picture explaining how the mousewheel factors correlate. I just can't seem to find a mouse with the perfect mousewheel, i always have to mod it in some way. Who tests these things anyway?



With the G303 the step resistance is very low, they aren't pronounced at all. The turn resistance was high, it seemed there was something interfering with the smooth scrolling of the wheel. The click resistance was very high, it was very hard to push down the mouse wheel button.
the solution was to put a 1 mm spacer on top of the mouse wheel button and smooth-en the turning of the scrollwheel with some WD-40.
Now the factors are in balance and there is peace in the my universe.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> the solution was to put a 1 mm spacer on top of the mouse wheel button and smooth-en the turning of the scrollwheel with some WD-40.
> Now the factors are in balance and there is peace in the my universe.


You do realize that putting WD40 onto a spinning part will attract dust particles and jam it even further when used.


----------



## Melan

I used to use a machine oil for MX500 wheel assembly. Worked great.


----------



## pinobot

I cleaned it afterwards, i only had to clean or lubricate (whatever happened) the shaft.


----------



## bobsacamano86

I apologize if this is somewhere else in the thread but can someone measure how long the left side is from the back of the mouse to the point. I want to see where my thumb would rest. Thanks


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Does anyone know any Sugru alternatives? I think Im going to make my own custom grip for my G303. Anyone have experience with InstaMorph?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> if you hit it sideways with a heavy object like a hammer or another mouse, a loose sensor will "bounce" very visibly on mousetester graphs
> 
> you have to make sure that you're not looking at liftoff, though
> 
> EDIT: it also happens if you change directions quickly, so if you do the "swipe back and forth several times" thing it'll be totally obvious


So fixing it is paramount, right?


----------



## Vaesor

For the lefties out there - didn't know this mouse was ambi (full sym shape) until recently. open mouse, remove side buttons, replace feet with new takasta feet. great 3 button / simple gaming mouse (if you like the shape). screwed off the Zowie ZA series due to hard shell / huano switches. This is a good replacement for a fingertip / palm hybrid (i have large-ish hands), but the mouse isn't so bad coming from a Mionix Avior 7000. Only time will tell.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vaesor*
> 
> For the lefties out there - didn't know this mouse was ambi (full sym shape) until recently. open mouse, remove side buttons, replace feet with new takasta feet. great 3 button / simple gaming mouse (if you like the shape). screwed off the Zowie ZA series due to hard shell / huano switches. This is a good replacement for a fingertip / palm hybrid (i have large-ish hands), but the mouse isn't so bad coming from a Mionix Avior 7000. Only time will tell.


Sounds good! When I 'try' this mouse, and I hope I like it, I'll order some of those feet.


----------



## Vaesor

I was thinking of sealing the side buttons with something, but it feels alright for now. just adjusting to the shape. with the Avior i left the side buttons (on the left side of the mouse) in as they didn't bug me at all. with this mouse it's a bit annoying as your finger covers that area so for lefty gamers it's nice not having them there! Also no lens rattle for me, but i watched this video anyway and did use double sided tape to make sure the issue would never bother me in the future. Link to video -


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> This performance is irrelevant if you can't even hold the mouse. Not to mention, there are thousands of people using mice with hardware that will make you elitists throw up, yet *gasp* they will outperform you in any game simply because they can handle the damn thing and focus on the game rather than pain in their hand. Even I can switch to MX500 (A2020) or first batch FK1 (3310) without ANY side effects in my performance.


My biggest issue wtih this mouse is its far too narrow. The only way my hand could be holding it is by clenching. If I dont clench it then my hand would not be even touching it and obviously you cant aim with a mouse if you're not in physical contact with it unless you're some alien with TK powers. If I could give this mouse the same width as the G9X or Xornet it would be perfect.


----------



## Vaesor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> My biggest issue wtih this mouse is its far too narrow. The only way my hand could be holding it is by clenching. If I dont clench it then my hand would not be even touching it and obviously you cant aim with a mouse if you're not in physical contact with it unless you're some alien with TK powers. If I could give this mouse the same width as the G9X or Xornet it would be perfect.


i agree. you do have to grip it fairly firmly. i rely on my thumb and 4th finger to do the gripping, but my palm needs something to rest on, which this mouse just about provides. The FK shape is better (sure the ZA's are nice too) in comparison to this mouse. However, zowie need to change the switches / shell design to provide a similar click feel and feedback to the g303. it's so nice.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

For me the mouse is far too short (lacking in height) for my palm to rest on anything so I would have to rely entirely on my thumb and ring finger. After a prolong periods it actually starts hurting and my aim deteriorates as a result from my hand shaking. But before the shakes my aim is probably best with the G303 compared to other mice. Its hard for me to make small adjustments because I would obviously lose my grip if I relax my hand even for a split second so I rely on a "snapping" method of aiming.


----------



## Vaesor

yeah i prefer the Avior as my main go to due to it having everything i need, but the g303 looked so good. simple and sweet. still getting used to it in a way. but so far so good.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I attached rubber bits to the mouse buttons and now my grip relaxed slightly because i can use my index and middle fingers to move it now. I need to find some way to make it wider.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I attached rubber bits to the mouse buttons and now my grip relaxed slightly because i can use my index and middle fingers to move it now. I need to find some way to make it wider.


Dare I say that your hands are too small?


----------



## Maximillion

I truly do hope the 3366 goes public in a variety of shells (sooner rather than later) for the sake of this community's long-term physical well being.


----------



## CorruptBE

Well I can "manage" the shape now, still would prefer a FK/Kana/Rival 100/Sensei style shape though.

Gonna keep using the G303 as my main till something like that hits the market (at least now you never hear me complain about my mouse tbh).


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Dare I sat that your hands are too small?


Im 99% sure they arent. My hands are 18.5cm


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I truly do hope the 3366 goes public in a variety of shells (sooner rather than later) for the sake of this community's long-term physical well being.


/thread




























Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Im 99% sure they arent. My hands are 18.5cm


Oh alright, sorry. The reason I asked wa sbecause your thumb doesn't go past the diamond shaped and I niavely thought it was because your hadn was too small . Pardon!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I could hold it past the ridge but the mouse would start sliding inside my hand because its a diamond shape. It wouldnt be a problem if the sides had rubber grips.


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I could hold it past the ridge but the mouse would start sliding inside my hand because its a diamond shape. It wouldnt be a problem if the sides had rubber grips.


So do what maximillionkohler does and tape up the sides with insulating tape


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Tape is only gonna give me a few mm at best. I need atleast 7mm on each side.


----------



## Melan

Buy an anti-slip rubber pad for furniture. They are at least 5mm thick and I used them on G303 before for extra thickness on the sides.
They look like that:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






and have pretty strong adhesive too, so it won't come off easily.

Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2570#post_23889940 There. It looked like that.


----------



## wonderboysam

I've found adding tape to the sensor stops the rattling but slows down tracking drastically and just plain makes it bad. I also feel without tape a wobbling sensor is also impacting the movement negatively, any other solutions out there?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

How are you even taping down the sensor? My spare with a taped sensor and main one without any tape track the same.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Stick o-rings between the lens and the pcb its attached to. It fixed the problem for me entirely and raised the LOD slightly.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*


Out of curiosity, why would you like them to make the 3366 worse as you want it without the variable frame-rate?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Out of curiosity, why would you like them to make the 3366 worse as you want it without the variable frame-rate?


There's a difference in sensor feel depending on how fast you move it. If the fps wasn't so variable the sensor would have a more consistent feel. If the AM010 didnt have poor PCS I would have prrffered it over 3366. It just feel more raw and consistent.


----------



## qsxcv

i doubt you would feel that if i didnt tell you guys that it has variable fr


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i doubt you would feel that if i didnt tell you guys that it has variable fr


I noticed it as soon as I got the mouse that it wasn't as raw as the AM010 tho it felt snappier. It wasn't until you discovered that it had variable fps that I finally realized why it felt that way. I already knew the feel but didn't have words to describe it then.


----------



## qsxcv

k just curious, at what speed does it feel different?

and, if you have experience with them, do you notice it (variable fr) in 3310 and 3988?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> k just curious, at what speed does it feel different?
> 
> and, if you have experience with them, do you notice it (variable fr) in 3310 and 3988?


When I start moving it somewhat fast with my wrist I can feel the the cursor have a slightly different feel. For the 3310 Im not really sure because the only 3310 mouse I have used it the Finalmouse 2015 and I sent that back in less than an hour because I didn't like the feel of the cursor. It was accurate but it definitely had some delay. As for 3988 I don't currently have a functional one on me atm (canibilized my DA 2013 for cable







)


----------



## trism

Felt snappier but isn't as raw? To me those both terms are quite the same.

Anyways you'd have to either sacrifice the high frame-rate and drop it down which would directly worsen the high speed tracking performance or make the low speed tracking quality worse and save the high frame-rate. Dunno how much it would be worse but it could severely affect the performance depending on the surface.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Idk. The AM010 feels more "jumpy" while the 3366 feels "smoother"


----------



## qsxcv

http://www.overclock.net/t/1565518/pmw3366-why-do-you-exist/30#post_24187700

yea i feel the same about am010 vs 3366. but i dont notice the framerate transitions in 3366.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i doubt you would feel that if i didnt tell you guys that it has variable fr


Didn't I talk about the frame rate behavior long before you tested the sensor?

I asked CPate (on Jun 28, 2014) to clarify the frame rate and light source. He said they no longer publicize that information, but he answered the light source question.


----------



## qsxcv

yea i think you did but for sure most people, even among here, dont notice...

this may be vague but whatever... i suspect that in developing the 3366, logitech/pixart's main goal was accuracy, as measured by robots/machines. and by optimizing the design for this, they sacrificed "rawness" a bit.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yea i think you did but for sure most people, even among here, dont notice...


I think some people subconsciously notice it, but they have no idea what that feeling stems from. I guess if you explained what to pay attention to they might be able to notice it. Most people don't care enough to bother examining how their mouse behaves.

Some people (not only on this forum) were saying that they thought the AM010 feels better than the 3366. That might be the frame rate that's giving them that opinion.

People were also saying the S3988 felt vastly different from some odd reason. Which could be either the smoothing and/or frame rate.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Anyways you'd have to either sacrifice the high frame-rate and drop it down which would directly worsen the high speed tracking performance or make the low speed tracking quality worse and save the high frame-rate. Dunno how much it would be worse but it could severely affect the performance depending on the surface.


Why would tracking be degraded if the sensor had no rest modes enabled and was set to a fixed frame rate at/or above 9000?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Idk. The AM010 feels more "jumpy" while the 3366 feels "smoother"


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1565518/pmw3366-why-do-you-exist/30#post_24187700
> 
> yea i feel the same about am010 vs 3366. but i dont notice the framerate transitions in 3366.


To me... A higher frame rate feels smoother and more responsive. A lower frame rate feels choppy. Also, diagonal tracking appears to be different depending on the frame rate.

The G303 felt better when I used my elbow to move it rather than my wrist. When I used my wrist it felt like my aim was worse, therefore I would grasp the mouse more and move it faster. I even changed my sensitivity to force myself to move the G303 at a certain speed. I think I mentioned this in one of my old posts.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2370_30#post_23839828
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2370_30#post_23840061
http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2940_30#post_23972419


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Why would tracking be degraded if the sensor had no rest modes enabled and was set to a fixed frame rate at/or above 9000?


More noise (->jitter). With a high frame-rate you have fast shutter speed which means less light for the image. Think about a typical digital camera and it should be pretty obvious. Go outside at the night and change the shutter values from small duration to long duration. Then again, try to take a picture with long duration shutter values and move the camera. You get motion blur which in a sensor means variance due to inaccurate correlation.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

How does faster shutter speed mean less light? Isnt the lumens the same?


----------



## phrax

wasn't variable framerate one of the reasons laser sensors have been so heavily lampooned in the past (besides accel)?

anyhow, this mouse shape feels pretty awful to me, I definitely aim slightly better with it but if I start using it regularly (even on my laptop for non-gaming) my wrist develops a weird, constant muscular ache. I had no idea it was even possible for a mouse shape to be bad enough to make my hand hurt, I only realised it was due to the mouse when I stopped using my laptop for a little while. Since then I've tried to start using the g303 again several times and each time the same thing happens.

how can logitech make a mouse with the best sensor and clicks on the market and then goof the shell so hard? I don't get it, literally any other shape (including office mice) would have been better


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> How does faster shutter speed mean less light? Isnt the candescence the same?


Shutter speed controls the frame-rate. The shorter you expose your photo, the less light you get and vice versa when your aperture stays the same. Think about the digital camera example, they are effectively the same thing. Candescence?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Shutter speed controls the frame-rate. The shorter you expose your photo, the less light you get and vice versa when your aperture stays the same. Think about the digital camera example, they are effectively the same thing. Candescence?


in these sensors, the shutter speed only affects framerate when illumination is extremely poor. e.g. when you lift up the mouse.
i think i've posted oscilloscope images somewhere here... iirc a typical exposure time is 50us so it doesn't affect framerate at all, unless the sensor wants to run at >20000fps (which for current avago/pixart sensors is never the case)

and, iirc, there's no change in the exposure for the different framerate modes. i.e. the gain (think camera ISO) is the same.

what's very likely going on is there's more processing being done for the lower framerate modes since there's more time available to process the image
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phrax*
> 
> wasn't variable framerate one of the reasons laser sensors have been so heavily lampooned in the past (besides accel)?


i don't think so
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> To me... A higher frame rate feels smoother and more responsive. A lower frame rate feels choppy. Also, diagonal tracking appears to be different depending on the frame rate.


many other variables than framerate though.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phrax*
> 
> wasn't variable framerate one of the reasons laser sensors have been so heavily lampooned in the past (besides accel)?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what's very likely going on is there's more processing being done for the lower framerate modes since there's more time available to process the image
> 
> i don't think so
> 
> many other variables than framerate though.


Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Possible case. I didn't own a Xai long enough to confirm this.
> 
> PS: 6010 is modified variant of the older 20 pin optical architecture. (3090 in current day). VSCEL opposed to a traditional LED. The notable difference was tracking speed and cursor quality on specific surfaces.
> 
> Edit: I'm sure an "optical" A9500 could have been possible with structure changes, although A9500s implementation of VSCEL on the sensor itself cuts overall cost. Acceleration would still be present regardless of illumination. Either an architectural or firmware flaw that was looked over.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> A9500 should be very comparable to current A3090 release, though will variate by frame rate response like I mentioned in your thread. I've personally had time with a modified UGS architecture and frame rate capping at a lower value significantly changes response feel.
> 
> I also mentioned data transfer rate being a possible parameter. Capping a lower internal update value and increasing cursor precision at the sake of response.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Of course, I mentioned this at the start of the thread and multiple postings after, though FR is more of a side effect variable. Having used a modified FR variation (7200/12000) of UGS, I can attest to a noticeable increase of delay (7200 FR) in addition to release 9800 SROM @ 12000 FR; Something that never should have been made public and makes current 4k 3090 seem like the best thing in the world. (I kid you not)
> 
> Lets assume data flow was equal on both 6010 and 3080 (two sensors of same generation). 6010 would indeed have that benefit of extra frame rate; less "laggy".
> 
> There is certainly comparable we'll say "smoothed properties" (for sake of subject consistently) inherit to A9500 vs 4k 3090, though FR bump put it more in line with older releases in terms of general user conscience.
> 
> Ironically, having a higher FR also decreases cursor precision and consistency via specific CPI level.. Settting FR too low decreases cursor smoothness. I don't know about you, but I feel 30*30 @ 6400 FPS is really the best compromise for general performance at moderate CPI.
> 
> This is considering FR is also high enough to offer decent IPS speed as well.
Click to expand...


----------



## qsxcv

9800 has smoothing... if the number of frames used for smoothing is held constant, lower framerate would exhibit more pronounced smoothing.

in theory, for a perfect sensor, assuming 1000hz sensor reads and usb polling, it doesn't matter whether the framerate is 1000, 2000 or 1234000, as long as it's an exact multiple of 1000. but if it isn't an exact multiple then higher is smoother


----------



## trism

"This register is used to configure the sensor frame rate. Sensor frame rate may reduce automatically (compared to the frame rate set by this register) when tracking over dark surfaces due to increasing shutter duration."

Odd that they would state like that if there was no chance of shutter ever being too long for normal frame rates. How did you measure the shutter time/on what surface specifically? It seems fine for white surfaces in their measurements. Shutter is used to keep the average pixel value in the 0-127 scale (normalization) and also the variable frame rate is related to the shutter value.


----------



## qsxcv

i tried on many surfaces. even a completely black mousepad (qck, black supermat, etc...) is reflective enough.
oscilloscope connected to led pins. the led duty cycle doesn't decrease pass a minimum it seems. probably related to the equivalent of the "x-sync" time for cameras

there is a chance for framerate to be limited by exposure time. as i mentioned, when you lift up the mouse


----------



## trism

Of course but that datasheet statement implies that it can happen on dark surfaces too.


----------



## qsxcv

well you'd need something far darker than a black mousepad for that then.


----------



## Melan

A black monolith


----------



## pinobot

No, that's full of stars.


----------



## Melan

Yes, which is why it will go well with RGB peripherals


----------



## popups

Logitech's counter to the criticisms:


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I truly do hope the 3366 goes public in a variety of shells (sooner rather than later) for the sake of this community's long-term physical well being.


I have larger hands and find it hard to use in a palm grip. So ha!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I wish Logitech could make a mouse for each grip style like instead of price tiers
Fingertip grip: G100S shape
Claw grip: G9 shape
Palm grip: G502 G402 shape


----------



## jtl999

MX518/DA3.5G shape would be best for me


----------



## wareya

I want a FM 2015 shape but even a little bit smaller. Never, ever going to happen.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Palm grip: G502 shape


502 is a claw shape.


----------



## wareya

it's also a palm shape


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> it's also a palm shape


It _can_ be palmed, but I've found that most palm players find it uncomfortable (as do I if I try to palm it).


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Logitech's counter to the criticisms:


lol i wonder how logitech feels about how 3/5 of c9 are using g100s


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lol i wonder how logitech feels about how 3/5 of c9 are using g100s


a g102 would be the best of both worlds


----------



## Maximillion

That image...please take it away before I'm tempted to touch myself.


----------



## jtl999

lol?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> That image...please take it away before I'm tempted to touch myself.


----------



## popups

Ramla777's revised review:






The only con, in his opinion, is the shape.


----------



## CorruptBE

CSGO pro's discussing the performance...

Yes we know the performance is great Logitech, that's not the issue









But tbh, I still stick with my opinion that the shape CAN work, but it just needs to be smoothed out. Especially the area where it changes in the middle on the sides.

That and reworking the skates and perhaps the ability to change LOD manually (if this is at all possible?), I feel it is a little TOO low at times.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

And perhaps making it so it doesn't slant as much. Rubber side grips would be nice too. A mouse held by cohension=best because a relaxed hand is fastest and most steady.


----------



## CorruptBE

Well that's just my preference, but I would like a rubber version as well


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> lol i wonder how logitech feels about how 3/5 of c9 are using g100s


The latest info I have is Hiko, n0thing, Freakazoid and Skadoodle are using the G100S. Sean recently switched to the G303. Shroud is still using the G303.

Dupreeh, Xyp9x and Karrigan use the G303. CajunB and Device use the G402. I think Karrigan switches between the G402 and G303 (like Sean does).

The only other pro player I know is using the G303 is Get Right.

Players using the G303 basically use only their fingertips to hold the mouse.


----------



## Derp

Producing a Youtube video displaying paid feedback from a CS team really changed my mind about the product.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Producing a Youtube video displaying paid feedback from a CS team really changed my mind about the product.


I have as a result decided to buy my 4 year old [female] sister this amazing gaming mouse because she might grow up and become a paid sponser too!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Producing a Youtube video displaying paid feedback from a CS team really changed my mind about the product.


Too bad the (arguably) best aimer in TSM doesn't use the G303. Same goes for Cloud9.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> I have as a result decided to buy my 4 year old [female] sister this amazing gaming mouse because she might grow up and become a paid sponser too!


I was thinking about buying a G100S for the 5 year old to use. Does anyone know if they updated the SROM in the G100S to the newer version from the G402/G302?


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Too bad the (arguably) best aimer in TSM doesn't use the G303. Same goes for Cloud9.
> I was thinking about buying a G100S for the 5 year old to use. Does anyone know if they updated the SROM in the G100S to the newer version from the G402/G302?


shroud is the best aimer dude
but seangares who did good this tournament was using a g303


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> I have as a result decided to buy my 4 year old [female] sister this amazing gaming mouse because she might grow up and become a paid sponser too!


Plot twist, you're 12!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> shroud is the best aimer dude
> but seangares who did good this tournament was using a g303


The only reason people think he has the best aim is because he plays against noobs on stream.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/660051135072501761









Old, but not like it changed much.


----------



## Maximillion

Bustin' shots, now he Neo.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The only reason people think he has the best aim is because he plays against noobs on stream.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/660051135072501761
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old, but not like it changed much.


Yea well if hes aim is very much on point against noobs in pugs and he can't perform against fnatic it doesn't mean it's his aim that is the problem. Most likely just his self confidence or something else that affects his inconsistency. He did very well during the summer, and I would say people are definitely right saying he is one of the best aimers in the world, same as ScreaM. Both just inconsistent as hell and possibly suffering from low self confidence.


----------



## qsxcv

imo you cant decouple inconsistency from skill...

but anyway shroud's aim is good but many many other pros are equally good or better and would look just as insane if they just streamed pugs vs random players


----------



## aerowalk30

Skadoodle with a rifle is honestly the best untapped pro talent. I really don't care for his AWP but I know for a fact his rifle is one of the best out there.

Also he was using a DeathAdder 3-4 years ago so its never "the" mouse as we all should know by now.


----------



## wareya

DA is rly good on certain surfaces. just don't use it with anything with an illustration on it, ever.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> imo you cant decouple inconsistency from skill...
> 
> but anyway shroud's aim is good but many many other pros are equally good or better and would look just as insane if they just streamed pugs vs random players


Agreed, consistency is one of the most important things in every pro level sport. But I replied to a comment about aim, not about skill. Many other pros are better by skill yeah, but by raw aim shroud definitely is one of the best. He just lacks on many other compartments too much to make him a real top player though. Everyone on the top level has pretty much amazing aim. The difference in the best aimer and a top aimer on top level is marginal.

Never should take mice in the discussion when talking about pro players skill, they could do it with pretty much any mice after a few months of usage.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Never should take mice in the discussion when talking about pro players skill, they could do it with pretty much any mice after a few months of usage.


The pro players will disagree.


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The pro players will disagree.


But then they'll use whatever the sponsor dictates anyway. Being professional like this is a pretty important part of being a professional.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The pro players will disagree.


Some might, most wont. Most professional players have played with at least 3 different mice in the last 3 years and done pretty much equally as good with all of them. It's obvious they might prefer one more than the other, but doesn't mean it affects their performance as much.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Some might, most wont. Most professional players have played with at least 3 different mice in the last 3 years and done pretty much equally as good with all of them. It's obvious they might prefer one more than the other, but doesn't mean it affects their performance as much.


The best players tend to be the ones who would disagree with you.


----------



## Melan

Let's hear it from actual players then.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The best players tend to be the ones who would disagree with you.


Disagree with a mouse affecting their performance? It will affect their performance on short term, but as I said if they would play with a different mouse for a longer period of time they would definitely reach the same sort of level they had before. I doubt the best players who have had to do this would disagree with this. The mouse they use really doesn't make a big difference if you can just get comfortable with it.


----------



## fuzzybass

I'm gonna have to agree with Hasukka on this one. I don't delve too deeply into the pro e-sports scene, but haven't some top-tier FPS players used mice with laser sensors before? Like the Sensei, for instance...

That just tells me acceleration on those laser Avago sensors isn't that big of a deal.

If not the FPS scene, I'm pretty sure S4, one of the best players in the Dota 2 scene at the moment, uses a Sensei. Again... doesn't seem like acceleration is such an issue.

I've thought about just not giving a **** about acceleration from those laser Avago sensors anymore, and just buying the Taipan, cause its shape is my favorite of all mice I've tried.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Logitech's counter to the criticisms:


Rekt by NiP 2:0

Time to change sponsor







/s


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Let's hear it from actual players then.


Don't you watch their streams and listen to their interviews?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I'm gonna have to agree with Hasukka on this one. I don't delve too deeply into the pro e-sports scene, but haven't some top-tier FPS players used mice with laser sensors before? Like the Sensei, for instance...
> 
> That just tells me acceleration on those laser Avago sensors isn't that big of a deal.
> 
> If not the FPS scene, I'm pretty sure S4, one of the best players in the Dota 2 scene at the moment, uses a Sensei. Again... doesn't seem like acceleration is such an issue.
> 
> I've thought about just not giving a **** about acceleration from those laser Avago sensors anymore, and just buying the Taipan, cause its shape is my favorite of all mice I've tried.


Get Right was using the Rival when he was sponsored by SteelSeries. Once that contract was over he switched his mouse. He went back to his Xai, but he didn't like it anymore. He went to the FK for a short time, Then went back to the Rival. He eventually started to use the G303...

Get Right used to really like the Xai, but after playing with other mice he moved away from it. Jordan might feel the same about the Xai.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Rekt by NiP 2:0
> 
> Time to change sponsor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /s


Doesn't 3 NiP players use Zowie mice?


----------



## hotwheels1997

EC2-A, yes.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Doesn't 3 NiP players use Zowie mice?


I saw 2 Zowies. They looked like EC2s and also 1 Steelseries Ikari I think? Could be wrong, but I know they change mice a lot.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I'm gonna have to agree with Hasukka on this one. I don't delve too deeply into the pro e-sports scene, but haven't some top-tier FPS players used mice with laser sensors before? Like the Sensei, for instance...
> 
> That just tells me acceleration on those laser Avago sensors isn't that big of a deal.


Not in CS.

In quake however...

Look at all the overshooting with the rail whilst flicking during a high speed move*

I remember running a Xai and Zowie AM concurrently, I preferred the precision/snappy feel of the Xai in CSGO and the consistency of the AM in Quake/UT instagib.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> I saw 2 Zowies. They looked like EC2s and also 1 Steelseries Ikari I think? Could be wrong, but I know they change mice a lot.


Rival, EC2, Ikari, EC2, G303

Funny how Xizt keeps going back to the Ikari.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Funny how Xizt keeps going back to the Ikari.


Probably the shape.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Don't you watch their streams and listen to their interviews?


No, because I'm not interested in whatever they are doing. Their opinion on anything is a merely their opinion.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No, because I'm not interested in whatever they are doing. Their opinion on anything is a merely their opinion.


Then why say this?
Quote:


> "Let's hear it from actual players then."


Their opinion matters a lot. What they have to say about a product can change the direction a company takes and what consumers ask for.

Your opinion isn't valuable like a pro players. You can defend products all you want, but a video of TSM does more than you could ever.


----------



## Melan

Yes, directions. We can see that with current lineup of products from razer and logitech.

I don't have to defend anything since there's no need for me to justify my purchase to anybody. I buy stuff because I like it, not because some "pro" said it's cool. Which, actually, you should do too.
Pro players are good because of their experience in the "field" not because of peripheral. The fact that said "pros" had no problem what so ever using crappy 3090 implementations and so hated laser sensors, pretty much proves that as long as the shape fits you and there are no hardware malfunction (such as rivals jump bug or just plain sensor malfunction if you reach high speeds) you'll do just fine.


----------



## Aventadoor

Its interesting that Friberg use Rival, he was using G400S for a period.
But yeah, CSGO is all about angles and crosshair placement.
I do find G303's amazing clicks to be very beneficial tho.

Logitech have the recipt to make something amazingly good, the best mouse in the world, ever made.
If they just stop making seriously funky designs.


----------



## iceskeleton

JW uses the sensei too

I'm sure most are actually oblivious to the sensor. Glide is probably more important


----------



## qsxcv

or they're just used to it...
rain uses qpad 5k (9500) and his aim is pretty nuts


----------



## Aventadoor

U sure its not the new Qpad with optical?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> or they're just used to it...
> rain uses qpad 5k (9500) and his aim is pretty nuts


TBH imo it doesnt really matter much in CS.


----------



## qsxcv

given how aiming in cs works... yea once you're used to it you're not really hindered.

it's funny how the general gaming community exaggerates the issue though. and then claim that 3310 is a "flawless optical sensor"


----------



## fuzzybass

All I know is, if I care so much about gaming performance, I would concern myself with becoming a good player first, rather than what mouse I'm using, because buying a specific mouse isn't going to all of a sudden make me become pro-level.


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> DA is rly good on certain surfaces. just don't use it with anything with an illustration on it, ever.


Mine was terrible on dark cloth such as QcK and roccat taito, on rapid movements the cursor goes either up or down... a friend of mine has the same DA 3.5 as my old one with QcK and he has the same problem.
I bought Razer Goliathus Speed and it never happened again no matter how fast I moved my mouse.


----------



## wareya

there's more to non-illustrated pads than black ones

The illustration problems happen at low speeds


----------



## IaVoR

I did play on 450dpi 6/11 and 1.8 ingame which might be considered low speed and like I said never happened on the colored pad, I'm not pretending to be expert on mice and pads but my experience with DA3.5G and black cloth is a no go

I wish I had my QcK still to test DA2013 on it


----------



## wareya

http://www.overclock.net/t/1562793/zowie-g-sr-review-by-ino-updated-with-dark-grey-version/80#post_24329661

same behavior with a cheap artscow pad


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1562793/zowie-g-sr-review-by-ino-updated-with-dark-grey-version/80#post_24329661
> 
> same behavior with a cheap artscow pad


not the same.. on average movements the mouse tracked very good no erratic behaviour, it occured only on fast turns like if I have to do fast 180 or clear a corner fast ingame and then the cursor would look to the ground or up in the sky


----------



## wareya

I'm telling you that I'm not making the illustration problem up. Weird behavior at high speed on black stuff is a different issue.


----------



## IaVoR

Either way I've had enough headaches with razer to last me a lifetime, hopefully I'll stick with G303 for a long time.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> JW uses the sensei too
> 
> I'm sure most are actually oblivious to the sensor. Glide is probably more important


Isn't there 4 Fnatic players using the Rival and only JW using the Sensei Raw?

In Na'Vi isn't there a Zowie EC, a Rival, 2 Kinzu and 1 Sensei Raw?

I think Cold from LG uses a Sensei.

There are very few Sensei mice being used in the pro scene these days. There are more Zowie, Razer DeathAdder and SteelSeries Rival mice.


----------



## aerowalk30

DA 1800 on QCK has issues, fixed with tape trick up to about 2-3m/s
DA 3.5G on QCK has issues, never had the chance to fix it
DA2013 no problem on QCK
DA Chroma no problem on QCK

Thats my experience with all the DA's I own / owned. 3.5G was fine for wrist movements on low sensitivity but when swapping over to full arm and I'm assuming higher m/s it would look at the ground/sky/bug out.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> DA 1800 on QCK has issues, fixed with tape trick up to about 2-3m/s
> DA 3.5G on QCK has issues, never had the chance to fix it
> DA2013 no problem on QCK
> DA Chroma no problem on QCK
> 
> Thats my experience with all the DA's I own / owned. 3.5G was fine for wrist movements on low sensitivity but when swapping over to full arm and I'm assuming higher m/s it would look at the ground/sky/bug out.


How high is the LOD on the 3.5G again anyway? I can't remember anymore because I haven't touched one in years as mine has bit in the grass, I guess it's as high as the one of a G100S?


----------



## IaVoR

IIRC when I tested mine it was able to track at 2CD's but im not 100% sure.. it is pretty high compared to DA2013 and G303


----------



## wareya

3 CDs on bright cloth


----------



## aerowalk30

I think around 2-3 CDs ts pretty high but usable.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> shroud is the best aimer dude
> but seangares who did good this tournament was using a g303


Don't know if it has been pointed out or not but shroud is not the best aimer, maybe the best sprayer.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Don't know if it has been pointed out or not but shroud is not the best aimer, maybe the best sprayer.


I already said Shroud isn't the best aimer in C9. I think Jordan or Skadoodle is. Shroud is definitely good at spraying. It seems people using the G303 are good at spraying.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I already said Shroud isn't the best aimer in C9. I think Jordan or Skadoodle is. Shroud is definitely good at spraying. It seems people using the G303 are good at spraying.


Wasn't sure if I should quote you or not but here it goes anyway. I've seen people here mentioning pros and the mouse they use in some games without nobody mentioning quake. If you want to measure the effect a mouse has on aiming just follow quake "pros" and you'll get the idea.


----------



## aerowalk30

I think you'll find due to the larger "sample" group of pros as well as the heavy publicizing of peripherals in the CS scene you're going to find people recognize names and branding much more. Obviously Quake would be more indicative of raw aim but how many people do you think know who rapha or cypher is when you mention them in CS circles? Its unfortunate but what can you do


----------



## wareya

says quake is more indicative of raw aim than CS

goes on to list present QL players, not QW or CPM

lol ok


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Are the grooves on the G303 lens identical to the Sensei Raw's lens?


----------



## qsxcv

yes but the g303 lens doesn't fit since the sensor hole is too small and g303 has a protruding prism near the bottom side.

you can get one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-PP1-Pocket-Multifunction-Sharpener/dp/B000O8OTNC/
and use the diamond rod to increase the sensor hole size by a few mm at the bottom


----------



## phrax

there's so much elitism about quake requiring more "raw aim" than cs when it is the exact opposite. rarely do even fights happen in quake duels, more often it is trading prefires and closing in once you have a significantly higher stack than your enemy. in clan arena (and maybe other gamemodes, I don't play much) quake does require serious aim, as does cpm where the movement is less forgiving to +backing out of fights when at a disadvantage. but the aim required in arena-style fps is far more about conceptual aim, prediction, tracking etc than specific accuracy of hand movement and its translation to the crosshair. this is important in a much purer sense in counterstrike due to the relative lack of positional advantages during combat, hitscan nature of weapons, low ttk and punishment for moving while shooting.


----------



## Brightmist

I wonder the spring mechanism of main buttons under the top shell is replaceable.

Right button's spring still going strong after about 8 months yet left button's spring is pretty much dead now.

Also left switch started double-clicking after 8 month use, had to fix it.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phrax*
> 
> there's so much elitism about quake requiring more "raw aim" than cs when it is the exact opposite


mb for QL/VQ3 because movement and armor are so underpowered. but QW and CPMA are a completely different story


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I wonder the spring mechanism of main buttons under the top shell is replaceable.
> 
> Right button's spring still going strong after about 8 months yet left button's spring is pretty much dead now.
> 
> Also left switch started double-clicking after 8 month use, had to fix it.


Ahh double clicking is a pain.. my Deathadder had it VERY annoying. I bought up 5 omron switches from ebay and after 4 years I got only 1 more spare


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

After attempting to play with my hand relaxed for the last couple days I can conclude that I can't aim with my hand relaxed. The mouse just moves and shifts around in my hand too much. I would miss everything just barely because the mouse wobbles when I come to a complete stop because my hand doesn't have much contact with it.


----------



## Nixtix

Will this mouse feel too small going from a g502? Getting tired of the weight of my g502 and I've heard the g303 is surprisingly comfortable for a claw grip mouse.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixtix*
> 
> Will this mouse feel too small going from a g502? Getting tired of the weight of my g502 and I've heard the g303 is surprisingly comfortable for a claw grip mouse.


Grip feels awkward, weight is good after going to this mouse from 502. Will not go back to gaming with 502, only for review.


----------



## b0z0

I had to stop using the mouse. I'm sad, and keep trying to give myself excuses to use the mouse again. I just don't want to have Carpal tunnel issues due to it.


----------



## TriviumKM

Received my second replacement g303 this Friday annnnnnnnd.......the lens is loose too; serial 1534. And yes, it's affecting tracking, especially when flicking as the lens wobbles / shakes at the end of the flick. Guess i'll have to open it up and fix it myself after all.


----------



## jtl999

I wonder if it's possible to somehow sand the pointy part of the G303 sides I have trouble gripping.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Guardian is one of of the best players in the world; he uses a mouse that made me laugh. Then I realised how bad I am using a better mouse. Rip


----------



## 7onoff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Im still get variances :/


They could be using a frankenmouse. Keep that in mind


----------



## Longasc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixtix*
> 
> Will this mouse feel too small going from a g502? Getting tired of the weight of my g502 and I've heard the g303 is surprisingly comfortable for a claw grip mouse.


I needed 2-3 days to get used to the grip, I was coming from a G400/G402/G502 and it took me a while. But I noticed it's very precise as the grip you have to use to hold it gives you very good control.
Now using the G302 and later on G303 for months and it is very pleasant. Might not look ergonomic, but it is.

Many people just cannot used to the wedge shape in the center. That is where you have to grip around and above the mouse. And this gives a very good control. I have rather large hands and that might make it easier for me to grip it.

I would give the mouse a try, if it doesn't work out, the Castor has a very nice shape, just find sensor and buttons a bit too much on the soft side.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Guardian is one of of the best players in the world; he uses a mouse that made me laugh. Then I realised how bad I am using a better mouse. Rip


Guardian and Edward be using that Sudden Attack Kinzu. Guardian changed the wheel though. So, maybe they are using the v3 internals instead.


----------



## m1hka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Guardian and Edward be using that Sudden Attack Kinzu. Guardian changed the wheel though. So, maybe they are using the v3 internals instead.


It's Kinzu v2 inside of Sudden Attack shell.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> It's Kinzu v2 inside of Sudden Attack shell.


The Sudden Attack (far as I can tell) has the PixArt 3305. Which is what the Kinzu v2 and Kana use. The Kinzu variant of the 3305 uses the 1.0x lens, whereas the Kana uses the 0.5x lens.

Guardian's mouse has a white scroll wheel instead of the black. So, he changed at least that.

http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/7038-full/1440099177.5074.jpeg





Edward's Kinzu is most likely unmodified.


----------



## Aventadoor

And kinzu V3 had 3050? 3050 is better?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> And kinzu V3 had 3050? 3050 is better?


I had a white Kana before. It had a high degree of angle snapping and felt like the frame rate was lower than a 3090. From what I can remember, there were only two usable/decent CPI steps.

Most people might prefer the 3050 over the 3305 as long as they use the 500 CPI step.

8/22/13
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The sensor seems fine. I didn't test it much for that bug, but I hear that was fixed already. The polling isn't perfect on anything other than 1000Hz. There is also some angle snapping.
> 
> I can tell the frame rates are low on this sensor. it feels weird. With the lens they use the malfunction speed is very high on my red Hien. I was actually impressed by it. The LOD on a black cloth pad is ~2.2mm.
> 
> I would say if you use 400 CPI, can live with stiffer switches, a low resistance scroll wheel, a crappy cable, a partially coated shell, a claw grip shape with annoying gaps between the side buttons, go ahead buy it. For me, however, I am sending it back for a Zowie FK.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I found the Kana to be absolutely godawful.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Guardian is one of of the best players in the world; he uses a mouse that made me laugh. Then I realised how bad I am using a better mouse. Rip


I assume he's long moved on and is using something else now, but Kinzu V1 ain't no joke.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I found the Kana to be absolutely godawful.
> I assume he's long moved on and is using something else now, but Kinzu V1 ain't no joke.


Guardian was using the Sudden Attack Kinzu at DreamHack Open Cluj 2015.

How did the Kinzu v1 perform?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I wonder if it's possible to somehow sand the pointy part of the G303 sides I have trouble gripping.


You could. I've done it to mines and it no longer digs into my hand. However the mouse is still too narrow and I have yet to buy rubber pads for it.


----------



## m1hka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The Sudden Attack (far as I can tell) has the PixArt 3305. Which is what the Kinzu v2 and Kana use. The Kinzu variant of the 3305 uses the 1.0x lens, whereas the Kana uses the 0.5x lens.
> 
> Guardian's mouse has a white scroll wheel instead of the black. So, he changed at least that.
> 
> http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/7038-full/1440099177.5074.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edward's Kinzu is most likely unmodified.


I've missclicked. I mean v1. Proof:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=797038#r9380928


----------



## aerowalk30

The Kinzu Sudden Attack uses the STMicroelectronics VT5366 sensor does it not? (http://www.zeecrear.com/?p=7254). Guardian must be using a V1 scroll-wheel in his Sudden Attack (greyish instead of the V2 almost translucent white). Also any internals from a V2 would not fit into the Sudden Attack shell if it is using the STMicroelectronics VT5366 sensor. It uses a completely different mounting system, no pics as I'd have to rip off my hyperglides but I did take it apart a couple times and the V1 shell won't take a V3 PCB which in turn would mean a V2 PCB would not fit either. The only option would be to use the top shell of the Sudden Attack and place it on a V2/V3 base with the PCB which does work.

Kinzu V1 angle-snapping love. If you've ever watched Edward play it is incredibly apparent in the way he aims. While it comes across as pretty intense it doesn't feel at all like most angle-snapping you apply through programs, it doesn't stick to a line at all. I've had my best games using the V1 so I'm a little starstruck by it


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> The Kinzu Sudden Attack uses the STMicroelectronics VT5366 sensor does it not? (http://www.zeecrear.com/?p=7254). Guardian must be using a V1 scroll-wheel in his Sudden Attack (greyish instead of the V2 almost translucent white). Also any internals from a V2 would not fit into the Sudden Attack shell if it is using the STMicroelectronics VT5366 sensor. It uses a completely different mounting system, no pics as I'd have to rip off my hyperglides but I did take it apart a couple times and the V1 shell won't take a V3 PCB which in turn would mean a V2 PCB would not fit either. The only option would be to use the top shell of the Sudden Attack and place it on a V2/V3 base with the PCB which does work.
> 
> Kinzu V1 angle-snapping love. If you've ever watched Edward play it is incredibly apparent in the way he aims. While it comes across as pretty intense it doesn't feel at all like most angle-snapping you apply through programs, it doesn't stick to a line at all. I've had my best games using the V1 so I'm a little starstruck by it


I'm seriously afraid to install driver 1.0.10. Everyone that has installed it ends up with angle snapping on pcp.

Haunted driver I tell ya.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> I've missclicked. I mean v1. Proof:
> http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=797038#r9380928


One of the best pro players is picky about the sensor, and the shell of his mouse, he would combine two different mice to make one he likes? I read the best players will just use whatever they are given by their sponsor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Kinzu V1 angle-snapping love. If you've ever watched Edward play it is incredibly apparent in the way he aims. While it comes across as pretty intense it doesn't feel at all like most angle-snapping you apply through programs, it doesn't stick to a line at all. I've had my best games using the V1 so I'm a little starstruck by it


Angle snapping is good for CS and Source. It's good for some maps in GO. If the angle snapping isn't onerous it will make you perform better.


----------



## AuraDesruu

I'm thinking about sending in my G303 to logitech support for a replacement because the lens rattling is really bad...
You think they would let me switch to a G402 instead??


----------



## jtl999

I had jitter issues with my G402 so I called up Logitech and they gave me this G303 after a bit of discussion. Didn't even have to send the G402 back or pay anything.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I had jitter issues with my G402 so I called up Logitech and they gave me this G303 after a bit of discussion. Didn't even have to send the G402 back or pay anything.


Wow you got really lucky
usually companies will ask for the product back to take a look at the problem
Maybe I should try contacting logitech and asking for a replacement...
I really dont feel like paying 12 bucks to send a mouse back to cali. Then wait 3-4 weeks for a new replacement..


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Wow you got really lucky
> usually companies will ask for the product back to take a look at the problem
> Maybe I should try contacting logitech and asking for a replacement...
> I really dont feel like paying 12 bucks to send a mouse back to cali. Then wait 3-4 weeks for a new replacement..


I have a way with words.

Good luck.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I have a way with words.
> 
> Good luck.


Teach me in a PM pls


----------



## Melan

If G303 costs the same as G402, Logitech will replace your mouse with other model if you ask them. It's their policy.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> I needed 2-3 days to get used to the grip, I was coming from a G400/G402/G502 and it took me a while. But I noticed it's very precise as the grip you have to use to hold it gives you very good control.
> Now using the G302 and later on G303 for months and it is very pleasant. Might not look ergonomic, but it is.
> 
> Many people just cannot used to the wedge shape in the center. That is where you have to grip around and above the mouse. And this gives a very good control. I have rather large hands and that might make it easier for me to grip it.
> 
> I would give the mouse a try, if it doesn't work out, the Castor has a very nice shape, just find sensor and buttons a bit too much on the soft side.


You kind of describe why Logitech probably choose this design and why it works... but also its flaws. The strong change from the front half to the back gives some people issues: "I can't place my fingers where I want to grab this mouse the way I want to."

The front of the G303 is pretty good, it's the rear half that is a mess imo. Funny enough the rear half was probably designed with "bling bling" in mind rather then useability.


----------



## AuraDesruu

So I called up logitech support and they said I didnt need to send my mice back for a replacement.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> I needed 2-3 days to get used to the grip, I was coming from a G400/G402/G502 and it took me a while. But I noticed it's very precise as the grip you have to use to hold it gives you very good control.
> Now using the G302 and later on G303 for months and it is very pleasant. Might not look ergonomic, but it is.
> 
> Many people just cannot used to the wedge shape in the center. That is where you have to grip around and above the mouse. And this gives a very good control. I have rather large hands and that might make it easier for me to grip it.
> 
> I would give the mouse a try, if it doesn't work out, the Castor has a very nice shape, just find sensor and buttons a bit too much on the soft side.
> 
> 
> 
> You kind of describe why Logitech probably choose this design and why it works... but also its flaws. The strong change from the front half to the back gives some people issues: "I can't place my fingers where I want to grab this mouse the way I want to."
> 
> The front of the G303 is pretty good, it's the rear half that is a mess imo. Funny enough the rear half was probably designed with "bling bling" in mind rather then useability.
Click to expand...

The front is a bit too narrow imo. It slopes inwards too aggressively. The back is just for show and doesn't offer any support whatsoever.
My biggest issue is in order to grip a mouse where it won't fly out of my hand I have to deathgrip it.


----------



## kornedbeefy

I picked this mouse up a couple days ago. I'm not as thrilled as I was hoping to be.

People where indicating its great for small hands but I'm finding its more uncomfortable to hold than my G502 and Roccat KPM, my two current favorite mice. I can reach the front thumb button on the G502. Actually my thumb rests on it. My thumb barely touches it on the G303. This is a standard problem I have with bigger, longer mice.

Other quibbles:

- I have the rattle if i shake it but it does not bother me in use. It doesn't appear to affect tracking. Is there an easy fix? I figure exchanging it at Best Buy will just get me another one that rattles.

- I get this weird micro stutter when changing DPI while turning in CS:GO. It's not a game breaker but just odd. The G502 does not do this.

- I'm finding myself missing the two button dpi switch

With that, its not a horrible mouse. As long as the rattle isn't an issue I'm going to keep it. I may end up using it as my primary if I become used to it. I kind of like how my thumb and pinky lock onto the upper part as it starts to slant inward.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> I picked this mouse up a couple days ago. I'm not as thrilled as I was hoping to be.
> 
> People where indicating its great for small hands but I'm finding its more uncomfortable to hold than my G502 and Roccat KPM, my two current favorite mice. I can reach the front thumb button on the G502. Actually my thumb rests on it. My thumb barely touches it on the G303. This is a standard problem I have with bigger, longer mice.
> 
> Other quibbles:
> 
> - I have the rattle if i shake it but it does not bother me in use. It doesn't appear to affect tracking. Is there an easy fix? I figure exchanging it at Best Buy will just get me another one that rattles.
> 
> - I get this weird micro stutter when changing DPI while turning in CS:GO. It's not a game breaker but just odd. The G502 does not do this.
> 
> - I'm finding myself missing the two button dpi switch
> 
> With that, its not a horrible mouse. As long as the rattle isn't an issue I'm going to keep it. I may end up using it as my primary if I become used to it. I kind of like how my thumb and pinky lock onto the upper part as it starts to slant inward.


What do you use the DPI switches for?

I never understood the idea of having to change DPI during other settings. Why not just change the settings like the senstivity and stuff instead of changing dpi?


----------



## Brightmist

Some games (Battlefield







) had different sensitivity coefficients for different vehicles that weren't adjustable back-when so DPI changing buttons helped a lot on those.


----------



## Melan

I used to do the same back in battlefield 2 with g500. Had like 2000 cpi for chopper control, 400 for infantry and 200 for tv missile. Oh and the one and only macro button for direct hop to tv missile of course.


----------



## Cyro999

My mouse is malfunctioning when i hold the right mouse button and swipe right, even at moderate speed (i guess 0.5m/s, not higher than 1.0m/s).

I guess this is due to the LOD. If i press down on the right half of the right mouse button, the mouse tilts over a bit. Applying force from the thumb to move it right may amplify this or not be stable because of the tilt/wobble and it seems like only a fraction of a centimeter lift is enough to make the tracking fail on black cloth. I've tested it previously and my mouse did not track at 1cd LOD.

Is there any fix/improvement to this possible in software? I'm not using surface calibration; it only made the problem even worse before.

What is the best way to contact logitech support for this or other issues?


----------



## Brightmist

That's the downside of low LOD









That's also why there's such a thing as too low LOD nowadays.

Try not to tilt it when you're swiping pretty much, you'll get used to it.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Try not to tilt it when you're swiping pretty much, you'll get used to it.


I've been trying for the last thousand hours of usage and i can't get used to it.


----------



## trism

I have the same problem. When I turn my wrist almost entirely to either side the mouse just tilts due to the narrow unstable base. Can't really get used to that unless I'd change my play style entirely. I would be fine with the shape if the base was 1 cm wider with dents for the fingers (and with stiffer clicks







)


----------



## pinobot

I only have problems with a tilting mouse when using a hard mat.
I also often tilt the mouse instead of lifting it when re-positioning the mouse, this scrapes the side of the mouse over a hard mat. Ideally for me mice should have skates right up to the edge of the mouse.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> When I turn my wrist almost entirely to either side the mouse just tilts due to the narrow unstable base


I don't turn my wrist like that but it tilts anyway

the problem doesn't really exist if you're pressing the bottom towards the middle of the mouse - but pressing the right mouse button at the right edge will tip it easily. The very low LOD is an annoyance in some other ways, of course.


----------



## Azmath

Does your mouse feet seem to have a bubble in the midle of the skate? Front and rear skates especialy. If it does, press them hard, and try again. Or change those god damn awfull logi skates.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I think those would be the screw holes lol


----------



## Azmath

Yes, right in the midle of the skates, but the the bubble on both skates (on my g303 when it arrived) was way bigger than those litle holes. If i pressed them hard, they would stick to the mouse but or a short period of time (30 min aprox), after i took those awful skates and put IME 3.0 hyperglides, the mouse works like a charm. No tilting problems at all.


----------



## pinobot

Received the Hotline Games Competition Level skates from takasta12 for the G303 (G302 2015) yesterday.
Very nice glide and fit.
I use it on a cloth pad. On a hard mat it's maybe a bit too smooth, almost feels like acceleration to me.


----------



## nocebo

I have been using my g303 without drivers on win 10 for a while. Installed drivers and the latest firmware and thing feel alot diffrent but in a good way.

Dpi has not changed but it could maybe be pollingrate has changed? Anyone else feel a diffrence with and without drivers on win 10?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> I had jitter issues with my G402 so I called up Logitech and they gave me this G303 after a bit of discussion. Didn't even have to send the G402 back or pay anything.


This level of customer support is normal if you live in euorpe. If you have issues and explain them they will send you a new mouse without having to send the old one back. If you are lucky they will send you four new mice like they did with my friend.


----------



## jtl999

Canada


----------



## Nixtix

Tried this mouse out yesterday and I returned it today. The parts where I claw the mouse on the sides are too narrow and uncomfortable for me after an hour of playing CSGO. I don't understand Logitech's rational on the shape of the mouse at all. If they made this mouse shell look something like the G9x (precision grip) it would achieve the same goals and actually be ergonomic....


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixtix*
> 
> Tried this mouse out yesterday and I returned it today. The parts where I claw the mouse on the sides are too narrow and uncomfortable for me after an hour of playing CSGO. I don't understand Logitech's rational on the shape of the mouse at all. If they made this mouse shell look something like the G9x (precision grip) it would achieve the same goals and actually be ergonomic....


If they did I would happily buy 10 of them


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> My mouse is malfunctioning when i hold the right mouse button and swipe right, even at moderate speed (i guess 0.5m/s, not higher than 1.0m/s).
> 
> I guess this is due to the LOD. If i press down on the right half of the right mouse button, the mouse tilts over a bit. Applying force from the thumb to move it right may amplify this or not be stable because of the tilt/wobble and it seems like only a fraction of a centimeter lift is enough to make the tracking fail on black cloth. I've tested it previously and my mouse did not track at 1cd LOD.
> 
> Is there any fix/improvement to this possible in software? I'm not using surface calibration; it only made the problem even worse before.
> 
> What is the best way to contact logitech support for this or other issues?


Buy a new mouse pad. Find one that gives you a higher LOD. Rough plastic pads will increase it..


----------



## darkfirebg

Guys, there is no "One size fits them all" when it comes to mouse shape. It's either working or not working for you. Personally i got used to the shape and the sensor and now everyone think i'm hacking.. because they remember how i used to aim with my old mouse(with 3305dk-h). Best Logitech product iv'e used so far


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The LOD of the G303 is inherently low. You'd be lucky to get even 2mm. On my particular G303 the LOD is like 0.8-1mm regardless of what Im using it on. I think LOD is a problem when it causes stuff like this:




Done at 450 dpi
Anyways the Hotline Competition 0.6mm mouse skates I ordered from takasta finally arrived and Im completely mind blown by them.


----------



## TriviumKM

I think you badly need a new g303 lol you took yours apart way too many times.


----------



## Azmath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Anyways the Hotline Competition 0.6mm mouse skates I ordered from takasta finally arrived and Im completely mind blown by them.


Still waiting for mine. First i ordered the performance 0.6mm thick, after a week of so he posted those g303 competion so i ordered those too. Cand you compare those with hyperglides? Ofc, if you owned any hyperglides ...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azmath*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Anyways the Hotline Competition 0.6mm mouse skates I ordered from takasta finally arrived and Im completely mind blown by them.
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for mine. First i ordered the performance 0.6mm thick, after a week of so he posted those g303 competion so i ordered those too. Cand you compare those with hyperglides? Ofc, if you owned any hyperglides ...
Click to expand...

They're almost just as fast but these competition skates require a break in period. I'll give you my full opinion after I actually break them in.


----------



## Azmath

Hyperglides need a 40 -ish hours to work at their best, just my conclusion after using them for a few months on all mice i have.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azmath*
> 
> Hyperglides need a 40 -ish hours to work at their best, just my conclusion after using them for a few months on all mice i have.


Hmmm I could probably break these in about a week. osu is very good for annihilating breaking in mouse skates.
My Hayate Otsu MID should also come around next week. #DreamGlide?


----------



## pinobot

The Hotline Games Competition are definitively better than the Performance versions, especially the static friction seems to be lower. Making small adjustments on a hard mat is like moving an icecube.
Breaking in goes a lot faster on a hard mat.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> The Hotline Games Competition are definitively better than the Performance versions, especially the static friction seems to be lower. Making small adjustments on a hard mat is like moving an icecube.
> Breaking in goes a lot faster on a hard mat.


Ya which is why Im using my Steelseries 4HD atm.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Hey,since y'all are very sensitive about sensors and such , how would this mouse stack up against a Zowie EC2-A? Hand size: 17.5cm Use: CS GO


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Hey,since y'all are very sensitive about sensors and such , how would this mouse stack up against a Zowie EC2-A? Hand size: 17.5cm Use: CS GO


Pretty much better in every single way if you can hold it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Hey,since y'all are very sensitive about sensors and such , how would this mouse stack up against a Zowie EC2-A? Hand size: 17.5cm Use: CS GO


The G303 is superior in all aspects except for shape and skates.
Zowie: Amazing shells, everything else is pretty much average
Logitech: Amazing innards, terrible shells


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The G303 is superior in all aspects except for shape and skates.
> Zowie: Amazing shells, everything else is pretty much average
> Logitech: Amazing innards, terrible shells


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Pretty much better in every single way if you can hold it.


Since I don't have a lot of advanced knowledge, how much/what kind of a difference we're talking about? My usual grip is the a palm-claw hybrid,which i can't quite achieve with G303. Glide on G303 is pretty bad indeed,but I guess Competition mouse skates from Takasta can fix that for me.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

In short: The G303 has the best overall sensor out there atm.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> In short: The G303 has the best overall sensor out there atm.


I'm very much aware of that , but isnt 3310 still a very good performer? EC2-A seems like such an easy mouse to grip with my grip style that I'm tempted to buy it. It will be a downgrade , but plenty of pro players use it , it can't be bad.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The only 3310 I've tried is the FM 2015 and I feel like its inferior to the G303 in all aspects except for LOD.


----------



## aerowalk30

Don't get to caught up with the "best sensor" wave, its a losing battle in terms of getting best performance to shape ratio. The 3310/3090 are good contenders for the amount of mice released for shapes available, which should be a priority. At-least thats how I see it, take it as you will. I still prefer the MLT04 over the 3366 after having used both the 3366 feels "different" whatever that means idc







Maybe if someone put a 3366 into a WMO at 80 or less grams with forward sensor position but otherwise meh.


----------



## Azmath

@Zenith Phantasm Are the hotline games competition lvl skates black? Just received one of the orders in the mail today, it says competition lvl on the envelope but those don't look like 0,6 mm thick skates. Not at all, they look just as thick as the original skates. These was my first order and i know i read somewhere that those competiton lvl are white, or something like that.


----------



## Melan

They are black. White are hyperglides.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The ones I received from takasta are a very dark shade of grey.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I'm very much aware of that , but isnt 3310 still a very good performer? EC2-A seems like such an easy mouse to grip with my grip style that I'm tempted to buy it. It will be a downgrade , but plenty of pro players use it , it can't be bad.


the 3366 is technically a direct upgrade on the 3310, even in latency. The problem is it only exists in spaceships, instead of mice. And sometimes it malfunctions at low speed and shoots out to the corner of the screen but I think that's a logitech mcu problem.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 in G9X or Xornet shape... The dream :3


----------



## hotwheels1997

EC2-A sensor with a good shape against this one. Thats why i have difficulties deciding. 3366 is better, but shouldn't an ergonomic shape with 3310 give better experience? I doubt 3366 vs 3310 will make me any better in games , or even the s3988 i use currently.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> EC2-A sensor with a good shape against this one. Thats why i have difficulties deciding. 3366 is better, but shouldn't an ergonomic shape with 3310 give better experience? I doubt 3366 vs 3310 will make me any better in games , or even the s3988 i use currently.


While playing the biggest difference you notice is the comfort of the shell in this case. If you don't like G303, get the EC2-A. If you can get comfy with the G303 it's really good. I prefer G100s over both of them. With the default dpi and medium to high sensitivity this mouse is a must try at least.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> While playing the biggest difference you notice is the comfort of the shell in this case. If you don't like G303, get the EC2-A. If you can get comfy with the G303 it's really good. I prefer G100s over both of them. With the default dpi and medium to high sensitivity this mouse is a must try at least.


I've tried it. It is very comfy indeed. Don't like it for my sens since I do huge swipes (50-60cm for a 360) and it sometimes malfuctions. I usually get around 3.5m/s with the DA.
Anyways,this was my thought process as well. Yes,sensor is better and all but it's the shape that I notice the most and might have the most impact of all . After returning two G303's because of rattling that's so loud my mic could pick it up, I'm not super sure. Shape was weird,I have to use a different type of grip than my usual one.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I've tried it. It is very comfy indeed. Don't like it for my sens since I do huge swipes (50-60cm for a 360) and it sometimes malfuctions. I usually get around 3.5m/s with the DA.
> Anyways,this was my thought process as well. Yes,sensor is better and all but it's the shape that I notice the most and might have the most impact of all . After returning two G303's because of rattling that's so loud my mic could pick it up, I'm not super sure. Shape was weird,I have to use a different type of grip than my usual one.


Yea I kind of liked the G303 shape too, some flicks were too hard to make because the mouse felt out of balance, flicking to right was harder than flicking to left, probably because of the way I grip it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My G303 has a weird awkward feel from it certainly caused by the LOD being far too low (I dont even use mouse skates anymore. I sanded it down and used CS Hyde's mouse tape instead.


----------



## Brightmist

Try a glass or hard pad for LOD I guess.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I've tried. Doesn't help at all. It doesn't track at all on a pane of glass and it jitters like hell on my 4HD


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Yea I kind of liked the G303 shape too, some flicks were too hard to make because the mouse felt out of balance, flicking to right was harder than flicking to left, probably because of the way I grip it.


I was tilting the mouse and putting a lot of pressure on the butt. The way I grip it , my hand lays as if it's a palm grip on the butt,which being around 32mm compared to 20-25mm on the DA ,I push down a lot. It causes even less glide. It might me something related to my hand size,I don't know for sure.

What I liked about it in CS is the way you can pull down recoil using your fingertips. I find it much more precise than the way I have to do it now,which is from the elbow .A lot less consistent over all.


----------



## Brightmist

Works fine on my I-2, must be the type of glass you're using.

Shouldn't really jitter on 4HD, what DPI value you're using it at?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Works fine on my I-2, must be the type of glass you're using.
> 
> Shouldn't really jitter on 4HD, what DPI value you're using it at?


500 dpi. It barely tracks on just about any surface. The glass I was using was just some frosted glass chessboard.


----------



## Brightmist

People reported that 3366 works fine on 4HD on G502 thread.

It's obviously a defective unit, RMA it imho.


----------



## JesperT

My g303 works flawlessly on the 4HD/9HD mats. Also, the rather low LOD on this mouse is a bit higher on plastic mats like this one.
In fact the sensor seems to work perfectly on just about any surfaces, even though the LOD is lower on cloth mouse pads and glass (I2 in my case).
As other people here say, it really must be some malfunction in your mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> People reported that 3366 works fine on 4HD on G502 thread.
> 
> It's obviously a defective unit, RMA it imho.


Can't because I opened it 20x times. Oh well I don't plan to buy another.


----------



## Melan

You do realize that they don't ask for defective unit to be sent back right?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Sometimes they do, I had to return mine when I RMA'd for sensor wobble.


----------



## CrazyAngelDude

The serial number on my Logitech G303 starts with 1517 and it rattles. Are there really batches out there that doesn't have this issue, meaning they have made actual changes inside the mice? I'm starting to think they're all the same.


----------



## Brightmist

I pre-ordered it on Amazon and have been using it since it arrived, it doesn't rattle at all.

S/N starts with 1507.


----------



## Brightmist

And there's always the good old "fix it with some tape" technique


----------



## CrazyAngelDude

I'm not going to open up a brand new mouse and void my warranty. I returned it and got another rattling mouse with 1517 serial number, decided to go back to Mionix. Loved the spring-tensioning system and the sensor but the rattle renders the mouse unusable. What a pity.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyAngelDude*
> 
> I'm not going to open up a brand new mouse and void my warranty. I returned it and got another rattling mouse with 1517 serial number, decided to go back to Mionix. Loved the spring-tensioning system and the sensor but the rattle renders the mouse unusable. What a pity.


Get it RMA'd through Logitech instead of a retailer replacement.

Hopefully by now they have separate fixed stock of G303s. I got mine replaced that way and it's working perfectly for months.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You do realize that they don't ask for defective unit to be sent back right?


They asked for it back


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> They asked for it back


Sucks to be you then








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> Get it RMA'd through Logitech instead of a retailer replacement.
> 
> Hopefully by now they have separate fixed stock of G303s. I got mine replaced that way and it's working perfectly for months.


Logitech solution to fixing lens to sensor with 2-4 very thin and fragile plastic posts is very strange.


----------



## Trippy

I have been using the G303 for like less than three months and am going to have to RMA due to the **** cable. It has gotten all bent out of shape from just using it with a mouse bungie it's twisted all sorts of directions and has become incredibly stiff. Pretty mad about it, I love everything about this mouse expect the braided cable. I would really just like a normal flexible cable, or maybe a thinner braided cable like the Deathadder.


----------



## Melan

Oh boy, it's those G500 cable problems all over again.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Oh boy, it's those G500 cable problems all over again.


Yea, guess I'm going back to my FK1 with a scroll wheel that randomly sits between notches and makes me jump at the worst possible times in cs. That and the switches







.


----------



## jtl999

I have a G400 cable in mine.


----------



## popups

It seems like Logitech has the more problems with cables than any other company.


----------



## Brightmist

Maybe a bit less tension on the cable @ mouse side when attaching it to a bungee?

I've used a bungee for about 13 years now and never had an issue with any mouse cable, ever. I wonder if there is something wrong with me.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Maybe a bit less tension on the cable @ mouse side when attaching it to a bungee?
> 
> I've used a bungee for about 13 years now and never had an issue with any mouse cable, ever. I wonder if there is something wrong with me.


It had enough slack on it to cover my whole QCK Heavy and I was never yanking on it. It's just a thick cable with a really weak weave on the outside.


----------



## qsxcv

lol wow
i thought that the thickness of the g303 cable would mean it's more durable
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Logitech solution to fixing lens to sensor with 2-4 very thin and fragile plastic posts is very strange.


9500/9800 sensor/lens combo had the same feature.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The rubber coating on it is kinda fragile despite being thick. The braiding is the only real protection.


----------



## Zlate

Yea pretty much. I got the g302 myself. It's ok but some things can be improved. And i guess that's where this mouse comes in.


----------



## X6SweexLV

Today I got my new mouse
my mouse all is well with...
Sensor everything is fine no rattle just a little scrub side buttons!
After Mionix AVIOR 7000 sensor is just wonderful, buttons are excellent, but did like a big fat cable!
I rated this mouse 9/10﻿
Mouse S/N is 1511


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Should I use the surface tunning on my QCK? Also I've got the sensor rattle right out of the box. Does that affect performance?


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Should I use the surface tunning on my QCK? Also I've got the sensor rattle right out of the box. Does that affect performance?


AFAIK surface tuning messes up the tracking, just use the default setting.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IaVoR*
> 
> AFAIK surface tuning messes up the tracking, just use the default setting.


When I swipe fast, it stops tracking, but I don't think I'm going *that* fast ... :/


----------



## IaVoR

To me this is an indication to just use default profile for surface tuning, select default and try to see if you can replicate the issue if not there is your answer.


----------



## Melan

Depends on how you calibrate it. I had different results several times, but in the end stopped using it since there was no point. Default works just fine, don't fix what isn't broken.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Should I use the surface tunning on my QCK? Also I've got the sensor rattle right out of the box. Does that affect performance?


Surface "tuning" is meant to reduce the LOD. The LOD shouldn't be high on a QCK. Therefore, there is no need to use surface "tuning," using it could cause malfunctions.


----------



## subreach87

just to clarify, the g303 has anglesnapping feature checkbox in the software right? was looking through software pictures and didnt see it. and the g302 doesnt have that option correct?


----------



## qsxcv

303 has the option. i dont remember for 302


----------



## Melan

Yeah, G303 has angle snapping feature (even if it doesn't seem to work at all for me). Not sure about G302 though, but it should have it too.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

And to further clarify the lens rattle does not affect performance, right?

Also, I think the reason is I'm used to putting weight onto the sides of the mouse, causing the G303 to tip, and it loses tracking because it can't read the mousemat. Any tips on speeding up the process of getting used to it (IE: not doing that







)


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> And to further clarify the lens rattle does not affect performance, right?


It does. A lot. If you hear/feel it rattle, think of it as "you just malfunctioned a little".


----------



## Brightmist

You should stick to factory tuning if you're losing tracking when you swipe.

And yea, rattle isn't healthy, RMA or fix it yourself pretty much.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> You should stick to factory tuning if you're losing tracking when you swipe.
> 
> And yea, rattle isn't healthy, RMA or fix it yourself pretty much.


Left it at Factory, that's not the issue.

So ... as for the rattle -___- well I just got the goddman thing from Amazon, and I'm not ready to replace the feet quite just yet.

Is the solution to really go send it back already ?!


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> It does. A lot. If you hear/feel it rattle, think of it as "you just malfunctioned a little".


Mouse graphs or nocebo?


----------



## wareya

_Yeah that's placebo alright_

I fixed the lense rattle on my kone pure military with doublesided tape.


----------



## Brightmist

G303 feet is pretty bad, you should be replacing it anyway


----------



## hotwheels1997

Since a lot of you have already tested takasta's g303 feet, how is the competition option working out for you ? Do they have a good glide compared to stock?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im using IE3.0 competition .6mm skates on mine atm on a spanking brand new Artisan Otsu Mid and the glide is just ridiculous. It feels Im on an airhockey table yet I still have control.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> 
> _Yeah that's placebo alright_
> 
> I fixed the lense rattle on my kone pure military with doublesided tape.



I did the hammer test (instead of a hammer I used my hand cause with all the plastic I sanded off my G303 Im afraid hitting it with a hammer will lead to catastrophic mouse structural failure)
I cant read the graph


----------



## Brightmist

I'm using Tigergaming G302 skates + factory sides on I-2, I can move the mouse just by blowing on it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I'm using Tigergaming G302 skates + factory sides on I-2, I can move the mouse just by blowing on it.


I remember I saw some guy blowing his DA over a Hayate Otsu Soft. I have no such luck with my Mid even tho its supposed to have a faster glide (?!)


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I did the hammer test (instead of a hammer I used my hand cause with all the plastic I sanded off my G303 Im afraid hitting it with a hammer will lead to catastrophic mouse structural failure)
> I cant read the graph


It seems to have lifted off and stopped tracking for a couple frames

But if you don't feel/hear a rattle when you swap the mouse back and forth, you don't have a loose sensor. (make sure the mouse buttons aren't making any noise)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Its definitely rattling never mind it was the scroll wheel but I still think it has some form of "tracking issue". It seems to "jiggle" every time I stop my mouse.




Here's a little video of it happening in CS:GO
Its quite annoying as I have to wait for it to stop oscillating before I can aim :/


----------



## wareya

do a mousetester graph of swiping it quickly back and forth, hard but not so hard that it's hard to control
xcounts


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I just wiggled it a bit with my wrist.

This is when I wiggled it with my forearm with my wrist locked


----------



## DrSebWilkes

I don't get that ... sorry Zenith
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> I just wiggled it a bit with my wrist.
> 
> This is when I wiggled it with my forearm with my wrist locked


What's the difference, sorry?

Also, I can't replicate the G303 issue in CS:GO.

Truth is I don't think I actually understand what the count graphs are trying to say: IE: I can't tell one good one from one bad one.


----------



## wareya

Doesn't seem to be lense rattle Zenith, you seem to have some different, weird problem.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Doesn't seem to be lense rattle Zenith, you seem to have some different, weird problem.


can you show me if had / get issues from sensor rattle?

I can't see how it is an issue.


----------



## wareya

Post a picture of your results doing what I asked Zenith to do.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Post a picture of your results doing what I asked Zenith to do.


I will do tomorrow, promise.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its definitely rattling never mind it was the scroll wheel but I still think it has some form of "tracking issue". It seems to "jiggle" every time I stop my mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a little video of it happening in CS:GO
> Its quite annoying as I have to wait for it to stop oscillating before I can aim :/


My cursor looks like that when I swipe too fast to stop my mouse instantly. It's worse on a very low friction mouse pad.


----------



## Melan

It's not a tracking issue if you move your hand during instant stop. Mouse just pick up the movement.
Grow some muscles, even I'm as beefy as a vegan diet don't have such issues unless I overdo the stopping part during swipe.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The mouse just acts weird when I move it fast: 



Im 99% sure its not supposed to do that.


----------



## Melan

And what's weird? Except that obvious ms paint interpolation.


----------



## wareya

the OS is dropping cursor position updates lol

anything that look like this is almost definitely your system's fault, not the mouse, esp if the mousetester graphs are showing consistent polling responses like above

that or you're running at 125hz...


----------



## Melan

I just tried using 125hz, it doesn't look anything like that at all. Yes, there are more pronounced corners but they are very minor and gone completely at 250hz.

Edit: How about you do about 10 fast circles in mousetester and post interval graphs? Don't forget to move start and end point closer to the middle.


----------



## iceskeleton

lmao what
anyway here is what mine looks like, I do hear some noise when trying to look for it. But I can't be sure honestly


----------



## wareya

looks clean to me


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> So you're not using it as intended. You keep applying excessive force to hand, ergo the cramps. Same will be with any other mouse if you keep the squeeze on. Stop squeezing.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It's not a tracking issue if you move your hand during instant stop. Mouse just pick up the movement.
> Grow some muscles, even I'm as beefy as a vegan diet don't have such issues unless I overdo the stopping part during swipe.


?!?!?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Edit: How about you do about 10 fast circles in mousetester and post interval graphs? Don't forget to move start and end point closer to the middle.



Not sure if this is what you wanted.


----------



## Melan

It says "xCount vs. Time", you need "Interval vs. Time" in plot type.
Like that.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

lagged and doubleposted pls delete


----------



## Melan

Set data point start somewhere around 200 and end 1200.

Know what, just save it as logfile and give it here. I'll look my self.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Melan

Looks about right tbh.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I think my issue is related to the very low LOD and my inability to grip the mouse properly. The mouse is too narrow to grip well without deathgripping which makes it hard to aim. A relaxed grip prevents my aim from being stable or consistent because it would shift around in my hand. Now that I think about it my mouse shouldn't have rattle because I installed orings under the lens (which pushes the lens against the chassis)


----------



## Melan

U wot? How thick the those o-rings? Just use the thin double sided tape. Sensor will do the rest.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> U wot? How thick the those o-rings? Just use the thin double sided tape. Sensor will do the rest.


I used these orings http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U7DJ0TW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00
(Dont buy for keyboards if you're heavy typer/keyboard smasher, the keycap will dig into these and eventually cut them)
I stuck them between the lens and the PCB.


----------



## Melan

LOL NO. No no no no no no.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

-_- I dont use them anymore for my keyboard. Only got them because they were the only clear ones that weren't overpriced.
I use these now: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051XYRD2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
They still give a nice tactile feedback while greatly reducing travel distance.


----------



## Melan

It's not about the damn keyboard. Don't use THAT to fix rattling lens.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Why? Tape didnt work for me.


----------



## wareya

don't use o rings because they're going to bounce and wobble


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Ugh... Im just going to wait for this:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Ugh... Im just going to wait for this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Which Omron switch type resets the fastest and can take heavy clicking abuse? The 5M on this isn't going to last me very long.


----------



## Heimdallr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The ones I received from takasta are a very dark shade of grey.


They should be the competition, i use them on the G502 and they are dark grey too.


----------



## R35ervoirFox

I was really excited to get this new mouse today, especially seeing as I actually needed a new mouse.

Unfortunately it has lens rattle, this is the first optical mouse I've used in 15 years that has "lens rattle" lol

Anyway what do I do, what have other people done, I bought it from amazon, I really don't feel like returning it to get another mouse that rattles which according to Murphy's law is bound to happen.
Will logitech send out a replacement, otherwise I think it's best to just return this and get another mouse. Would a zowie mouse be a good replacement and if so which one?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *R35ervoirFox*
> 
> I was really excited to get this new mouse today, especially seeing as I actually needed a new mouse.
> 
> Unfortunately it has lens rattle, this is the first optical mouse I've used in 15 years that has "lens rattle" lol
> 
> Anyway what do I do, what have other people done, I bought it from amazon, I really don't feel like returning it to get another mouse that rattles which according to Murphy's law is bound to happen.
> Will logitech send out a replacement, otherwise I think it's best to just return this and get another mouse. Would a zowie mouse be a good replacement and if so which one?


If you have a local store,go and test a couple of theirs until you find one without rattle.


----------



## R35ervoirFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> If you have a local store,go and test a couple of theirs until you find one without rattle.


I was going to do that initially and I much prefer to buy a mouse that way but they were charging 69 euros in store... too much for this kind of mouse, was 45 on amazon.


----------



## Frenchy

Finaly after 8 months of intensive use quake live the G303 destroyed the G9X in all caracteristic : in overall performance and grip

Far better sensor, far better tracking, far better precision 75% of accuracy with Railgun in QL i'm like a boss especialy in instagib i'm always the top 2 in all server i can kill 5 people in 3-4 seconds.

This mouse has the best sensor ever, best click i have feel (one time broken like speackers or amplifiers because they are too reactive at the begining and make a lot of miss click) and imo best shape for hands because it's very little and light and for quake live big mice are huge hendicap because it's very quick game with a lot of arm control.

My pad is a 3 year puretrack talent and laser track bad on this ! Optical sensor feel a lot more reactive !! Laser is just marketing innovation for because cheaper to produce than optical sensor if I am not mistaken

For me the shape of g303 is perfect 20/20 and surpass by far the big and heavy g9x and the click of g9x are very flabby compared to g303. G303 click have very "tight" feel !

In shape aspect i think g303 is in eqality with g100s wich are the best shapes until now









I finally found the grail mouse and thank this forum for helping me to compare models although I find the thread too long and sometimes confusing 400 pages for a simple mouse is too long to read and I like things synthesized.

Sory for my english


----------



## Brightmist

I don't think it's the shape you like but the size


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Heimdallr*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The ones I received from takasta are a very dark shade of grey.
> 
> 
> 
> They should be the competition, i use them on the G502 and they are dark grey too.
Click to expand...

Welp mines turned black after breaking them in. One thing I've noticed is these skates aren't "sticky" like the stock Logitech ones.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *R35ervoirFox*
> 
> I was going to do that initially and I much prefer to buy a mouse that way but they were charging 69 euros in store... too much for this kind of mouse, was 45 on amazon.


70 euros is regular price here


----------



## R35ervoirFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 70 euros is regular price here


That's some serious price gouging







I mean like for a g502 with all the bells and whistles which is constructed with better materials, you can understand it.

Still though seems a pretty good mouse, probably the only decent mouse I've had since the g9. Hopefully I can get a replacement that doesn't have sensor wobble


----------



## Brightmist

At this point, they should show double sided tape on "Frequently Bought Together" area.


----------



## johnsamuels

How do you find out if you've got one with sensor wobble?


----------



## pinobot

Move the top of your finger over the sensor to make sure it track, use the default mat setting for that. Now hold your finger over the sensor and shake the mouse without moving your finger. If it rattles you'll see the pointer move on the screen.


----------



## Bombilakus

Hi guys I'm kinda new to the forums here







My friend is bringing me G303 from USA because its 30 euros cheaper there than in Croatia where I live. I see that it has rattle problem and was wondering if you fix it via that tape method I've seen on youtube mouse should work normaly right? I' cant f up the angle of the sensor if the tapes aren't applied equally?
And second question, are those takata skates really that much better than Logi's and should I get performance ones or competitive ones for casual BF4 gaming?
Thx for answers


----------



## R35ervoirFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bombilakus*
> 
> Hi guys I'm kinda new to the forums here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My friend is bringing me G303 from USA because its 30 euros cheaper there than in Croatia where I live. I see that it has rattle problem and was wondering if you fix it via that tape method I've seen on youtube mouse should work normaly right? I' cant f up the angle of the sensor if the tapes aren't applied equally?
> And second question, are those takata skates really that much better than Logi's and should I get performance ones or competitive ones for casual BF4 gaming?
> Thx for answers


Any method that doesn't block the sensor will work, you probably don't want to create more distance between the sensor and the bottom of the mouse as lod is already very low. I don't think a small change in the angle will make any difference at all.
The skates are a personal thing based on what surface you're using, so only you can answer that question when you get the mouse, personally I wouldn't bother but I don't have a problem with the skates on my qck heavy.


----------



## hfcobra

Hello I was wondering how big of a problem the lens rattles can be?

I opened my mouse but due to the lens rattles I am going to try to return it to the retail store where I bought it anyway. Should I replace the feet on the bottom before doing so or just make up an excuse for why they are missing? I could say I was checking the screws for rattle which is believable.

Not usually a dishonest person but I don't want to lose $50 when it isn't my fault the mouse rattles.

How big of an issue is the rattle?


----------



## Melan

Missing feet doesn't void the warranty fyi.

Lens rattle is at best annoying. I haven't seen any difference in tracking behavior after I glued it with industrial double-sided tape. It just eliminated the noise which was triggering my OCD.


----------



## Bombilakus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Missing feet doesn't void the warranty fyi.
> 
> Lens rattle is at best annoying. I haven't seen any difference in tracking behavior after I glued it with industrial double-sided tape. It just eliminated the noise which was triggering my OCD.


Sorry I didnt quite understood your point If the sensor rattles it affects the performance but does taping it fixes performance issues or not?


----------



## wareya

anything that stops the rattling will improve performance. but the more secure the lense is the better.

anyone who thinks the ratting doesn't affect how tracking works doesn't know what they're talking about


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bombilakus*
> 
> Sorry I didnt quite understood your point If the sensor rattles it affects the performance but does taping it fixes performance issues or not?


If the lens is really loose then yes it will affect tracking. In my case it did not affect anything.

Edit: Fixing it with tape = fixes lens into position so it doesn't move, ergo no more rattling lens and possible performance issues.


----------



## wareya

"possible"


----------



## Melan

"double quotes"


----------



## R35ervoirFox

I decided to fix the issue, I didn't want to do it as I knew reattaching the mouse feet would mean they would look less than perfect









Anyway I had the tools so I just opened it up, I had some small sticky pads, I placed one on either side of the sensor, between the sensor and the circuit board. In the video you can see it's where this guy is sticking his screwdriver:






He actually puts sticky tape between the sensor and the bottom of the case, I didn't want to do that as it might decrease lod which is already incredibly low and that might also affect tracking.
Also putting pads between the sensor casing and the board means it's physically impossible for the sensor to move as it is jammed on both sides.


----------



## Melan

I've put a lot thinner tape there. It's aggressive as hell though. Not sure if I'm ever unsticking lens now.

Edit: Something like this. It's a pain to cut small pieces since it literally glues to anything... even scissors.


----------



## johnsamuels

Man, mine has lens rattle too. I thought maybe I was moving my finger a little while shaking it, but the rattle only happens when I hold it horizontally. Holding it so the lens points out sideways, no rattle. The gravity must help hold it solid.

Balls.

Edit:

Mine is s/n 1528


----------



## hotwheels1997

Does anyone have an EC2-A and a G303 at his disposal? If so, he'd do me a big favor to take some pictures of them. Thx in advance


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Does anyone have an EC2-A and a G303 at his disposal? If so, he'd do me a big favor to take some pictures of them. Thx in advance


I will when I get off work. Any other mouse you'd like me to throw in the picture?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I will when I get off work. Any other mouse you'd like me to throw in the picture?


Thank you so much. A Deathadder would be ideal, I'd love to compare to my current daily driver.
If you happen to have , a Zowie ZA13.
Since you've used them, does the Zowie have a good glide compared to DA/G303?


----------



## subreach87

anyone know if 1515 Serial starts are the new batch? those are the ones at my local shop.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> anyone know if 1515 Serial starts are the new batch? those are the ones at my local shop.


I would get that mouse and test my luck. I have a mouse that starts with 1513 serial # and it doesn't have any sensor wobble


----------



## subreach87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> I would get that mouse and test my luck. I have a mouse that starts with 1513 serial # and it doesn't have any sensor wobble


still waiting for it to go on sale, im not paying 90 Canadian after tax.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> anyone know if 1515 Serial starts are the new batch? those are the ones at my local shop.


I had a 1513 that had a lens rattle. It's a hit or miss,plenty of people with 150x that don't rattle.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> still waiting for it to go on sale, im not paying 90 Canadian after tax.


http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B00TKFD51M/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Amazon has it for $80 maybe your store will price match :][


----------



## subreach87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B00TKFD51M/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
> 
> Amazon has it for $80 maybe your store will price match :][


after tax i said m8. waiting for a sale price.


----------



## fellcbr1

Can i remove the feet without ruining then?

apart from double sided tape what did you guys used to fix rattling?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fellcbr1*
> 
> Can i remove the feet without ruining then?


You can make a hole to access the screw instead of peeling the feet.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/4140_30#post_24504772


----------



## awote

What is going on with the bad quality here?
So many g303 users all over the world have reported this problem.
I had to return a new G303 these days because of the lens issue.

It seems Logitech is cost cutting the production quality based on the fact this is the only ambi mouse with 3366 atm.
When nobody buy´s this mouse in future, the faster we will get a *working* ambidextrous 3366 mice with a good design.
If we recommend a faulty design other will follow.


----------



## Brightmist

Yea, the shape should definitely be better next time around.


----------



## Bombilakus

G303 is like Alfa Romeo car







It has all of the good pieces but it will fall apart in some time and we all know it







Some just can't resist to buy it hehe


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> My cursor looks like that when I swipe too fast to stop my mouse instantly. It's worse on a very low friction mouse pad.


Just watched this video (you linked in my other post about G303 inconsistency) and I am now worried because that's exactly what happens with my G303 at 400dpi and 3 in-game when I flick side to side fast.


----------



## fellcbr1

What philips screwdriver should i use on those outer screws? jesus.. they are small.


----------



## Melan

I used PH000.


----------



## muso

Just got mine in the mail, thought maybe i'd notice a slight rattle at best. This **** was as if the sensor acted like a pendulum. Couldn't even make slow movements without the mouse on screen flying around everywhere.

This is in australia so no doubt we got the defective ones.

How did they fix this issue in the new batches?

Was strange shape but i dont really care to much how the mouse physically feels, the sensor made it unusable. and holy **** that cord tho. Thick as my dick.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> Just got mine in the mail, thought maybe i'd notice a slight rattle at best. This **** was as if the sensor acted like a pendulum. Couldn't even make slow movements without the mouse on screen flying around everywhere.
> 
> This is in australia so no doubt we got the defective ones.
> 
> How did they fix this issue in the new batches?
> 
> Was strange shape but i dont really care to much how the mouse physically feels, the sensor made it unusable. and holy **** that cord tho. Thick as my dick.


The poor ladies....
Anyways I agree, it is very thick


----------



## dmbr

This is an error with surface calibration.

Upgrade your firmware with the latest version of LGS--for some reason the older version doesn't detect the firmware update.


----------



## gourami

i bought this mouse yesterday, was a bit worried because i read a good part of this thread, and so many people were talking about bad shape and sensor rattle.

anyways i come from a zowie ec1-a (which was a bit too big for my hands) and really liked the shape from the get go, not perfect but it didn't feel bad after 90 mins of straight dm (which i never even do).

also i i've no rattle, s/n starts with 1523 but im not sure if it matters.

another thing, the buttons (besides the side buttons, almost as bad as the zowie lol..) feel amazing to press, and im not sure if this is placebo but it feels like i shoot with less delay compared to the zowie.

just sharing my experience, since this thread almost made me not get this mouse, and im loving it atm.


----------



## Melan

Yeah, delay on logitech mice is pretty damn low compared to zowie.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yeah, delay on logitech mice is pretty damn low compared to zowie.


5ms don't make any difference. This is placebo.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yeah, delay on logitech mice is pretty damn low compared to zowie.
> 
> 
> 
> 5ms don't make any difference. This is placebo.
Click to expand...

I disagree but not going to argue because not worth the effort.


----------



## Melan

Depends on how you look at it. 5ms isn't much, but when stacked upon all other delays in your system, it stops being little. Still, your human reaction times are catastrophic compared to any delays within your PC.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Just because you can't react to it doesn't mean you won't perceive it. Anyone with decent enough cognitive processing speeds and robust muscle memory might notice the difference especially when combined with other sources of latency.


----------



## Melan

Define "decent enough". You won't percieve single digit millisecond delay regardless of how you try.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Define "decent enough". You won't percieve single digit millisecond delay regardless of how you try.


My avg reaction time in that reaction time site is 220ms or smth like that using Chrome. If I die in-game, I doubt it's the delay that caused it. Didn't notice the difference between the G303 and the DA,which has same delay as a Zowie mice(new ones)


----------



## Melan

220ms based on like 5 tries?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> 220ms based on like 5 tries?


More that that,but I have to really be trying. Atm I'm getting 250ms avg which from my understanding is below avg.
Claw gives me better times as well,but I use palm.


----------



## Melan

What was that site again?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> What was that site again?


Click


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I remember I used to use that site. Had ~120-135ms avg before I started using an ank based program made by a friend (geckogates) instead because it was more accurate.
Found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xxxt5mey6k76fvt/Sound%20Reaction.rar?dl=0


----------



## Melan

And again, 120-135ms in how many tries? I mean real tries, not those "I predict the moment I should click, if I miss - try again" and actual "I see - I click".


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> And again, 120-135ms in how many tries? I mean real tries, not those "I predict the moment I should click, if I miss - try again" and actual "I see - I click".


http://www.humanbenchmark.com/users/10695339


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



they're cherry picked ofc


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> More that that,but I have to really be trying. Atm I'm getting 250ms avg which from my understanding is below avg.
> Claw gives me better times as well,but I use palm.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> And again, 120-135ms in how many tries? I mean real tries, not those "I predict the moment I should click, if I miss - try again" and actual "I see - I click".


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2400_30#post_23851066


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Hmmm I wonder what r0ach gets on this? Reckon there might be a correlation between simple reaction times and ability to perceive minuscule amounts of lag?


----------



## Melan

Just 5 tries per run? Cherry picking at it's best.

Last thing you need is roach here. Or his opinion. On anything.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My attention span is bad. If I did 50 it would probably be around ~140ms


----------



## Melan

Well you're supposed to do at least 50. Otherwise I don't see much point in this. Do you want a real number or just pat on the back that you were able to hit lowest time couple of times?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

50 is boring. My ADHD interferes with my ability to concentrate. Simple reaction time doesn't really matter too much other than a possible measure of cognition speed and how well you can shoot ppl thru d2 doors with an awp. The point is you don't notice input lag with your eyes. You notice it because there's a difference between your muscle memory and your senses when you use a mouse with more or less lag. Obviously less lag is optimal.


----------



## Melan

Yet again, you don't notice minuscule input lag at all. 30-40ms is something you might notice, yes. 5ms? lolno. Even if it stacks on 10ms more, it still will be something you won't notice while focusing on the game.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Just 5 tries per run? Cherry picking at it's best.
> 
> Last thing you need is roach here. Or his opinion. On anything.


You try to get a run with 5 fast times within 10ms of each other. Let's see how robotic you can be. Also, if you notice 94% of the leader board does 5 attempts in one run. So, to directly compare you will do 5 as well.

People can notice button latency when trying to track and shoot small moving targets or during flick shots.

I did that A-B input cursor latency test. I was able to discern ~6-8ms difference. I guess that because of my monitor.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yet again, you don't notice minuscule input lag at all. 30-40ms is something you might notice, yes. 5ms? lolno. Even if it stacks on 10ms more, it still will be something you won't notice while focusing on the game.


My point exactly.
My guess is that the screen helps too . I use 60hz which gives a slower reaction than 144hz,for example.


----------



## qsxcv

actually if you're tracking button latency matters less... unless your hand moves different the moment you click.
matters more for timing shots like dust2 double doors... which for some reason people rarely hit even though you only need like 170ms reaction time


----------



## Melan

I don't care what 94% of leaderboard does. If you want your reaction times right, do it 50 times, log all 50 attempts and look if you can have your "within 10ms" consistency.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yeah, delay on logitech mice is pretty damn low compared to zowie.
> 
> 
> 
> 5ms don't make any difference. This is placebo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree but not going to argue because not worth the effort.
Click to expand...

This conversation is like trying to explain to a blind at birth person what the color red looks like. You have your opinion and I have mine. But the point is that the latency is there. Whether you notice it or don't notice it doesn't matter because it still exists.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually if you're tracking button latency matters less... unless your hand moves different the moment you click.
> matters more for timing shots like dust2 double doors... which for some reason people rarely hit even though you only need like 170ms reaction time


As a whole, I don't think 5-6ms will make any real world difference in CS:GO for example. It's the last thing one has to worry about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> This conversation is like trying to explain to a blind at birth person what the color red looks like. You have your opinion and I have mine. But the point is that the latency is there. Whether you notice it or don't notice it doesn't matter because it still exists.


Existing yes,but a human being I doubt is able to perceive it. If one does not know there is a latency in a said mouse compared to another, he won't be able to notice it. Once the specs are read, miraculously it's noticed.


----------



## Melan

Except your opinion is false. Latency is always there, you just cannot notice it below a certain threshold.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually if you're tracking button latency matters less... unless your hand moves different the moment you click.
> matters more for timing shots like dust2 double doors... which for some reason people rarely hit even though you only need like 170ms reaction time


I noticed the difference when I have to track the target perfectly until my bullet lands on the head. It's much more difficult with a Intellimouse or 3090 Zowie. I can't just flick and shoot. There is a moment of time you have to wait before moving on to another target. It's kind of hard to explain. It's more something you feel, especially in GO. By the way, it's not just switch latency, it's the total time to click and the stiffness of the buttons.

I guess people miss the d-doors shot because most people's reaction times are about 165-180ms and you eventually have to blink.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I don't care what 94% of leaderboard does. If you want your reaction times right, do it 50 times, log all 50 attempts and look if you can have your "within 10ms" consistency.


I would like to see you do it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> If one does not know there is a latency in a said mouse compared to another, he won't be able to notice it. Once the specs are read, miraculously it's noticed.


How come my reaction times display the latency difference between the Avior 7000 and G303 nearly exactly as it was later discovered through testing?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/1vy3qe/how_many_frames_per_second_can_the_eye_see/cewz6ih%5B/URL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> actually if you're tracking button latency matters less... unless your hand moves different the moment you click.
> matters more for timing shots like dust2 double doors... which for some reason people rarely hit even though you only need like 170ms reaction time


As a whole, I don't think 5-6ms will make any real world difference in CS:GO for example. It's the last thing one has to worry about.[/QUOTE]
There are OTHER games besides CS:GO where it might be slightly more noticeable.


----------



## fellcbr1

So.. apart from the sensor rattling this mouse is amazingly comfortable despise all i read before giving it a try !

i find it more comfortable than the G402 which was less comfortable than the G400, i palm the mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fellcbr1*
> 
> So.. apart from the sensor rattling this mouse is amazingly comfortable despise all i read before giving it a try !
> 
> i find it more comfortable than the G402 which was less comfortable than the G400, i palm the mouse.


You palm grip the G303? How big are your hands? How do you hold it? Alien hands confirmed? Pics or riot


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fellcbr1*
> 
> So.. apart from the sensor rattling this mouse is amazingly comfortable despise all i read before giving it a try !
> 
> i find it more comfortable than the G402 which was less comfortable than the G400, i palm the mouse.


Less you read this whining about shapes is better for you.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

lol
lol^2


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I would like to see you do it.


Well, according to that program and 50 tries I did, I have 147.77ms reaction speed. With first 5 results being 142, 139, 158, 110 and 155. Half of results are ranging from 100 to 140.
Edit: I did this with sound on. Also I forgot to remove 10% of fastest and slowest results, which would make end result into 137.87ms.

Though I've already found flaws in this program. I can just spam LMB until it turns red and get whooping 20ms results. That and no logging option.


----------



## Brightmist

5 ms click delay is easily noticeable if you're already used to low click latency mice.

I've been using Xornet for a couple of months last year and when I grabbed X5 for the first time, first thing I I noticed was the extra delay just after my first few clicks.

Same thing with G303 after Xornet, I could perfectly perceive the difference compared to Xornet but it was less than X5.

I haven't used Zowie Mice but if their delay is sitting around +15 ms, I could easily see people getting annoyed by it, I know I'd be.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I would like to see you do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, according to that program and 50 tries I did, I have 147.77ms reaction speed. With first 5 results being 142, 139, 158, 110 and 155. Half of results are ranging from 100 to 140.
> Edit: I did this with sound on. Also I forgot to remove 10% of fastest and slowest results, which would make end result into 137.87ms.
> 
> Though I've already found flaws in this program. I can just spam LMB until it turns red and get whooping 20ms results. That and no logging option.
Click to expand...

Its not supposed to be some flawless advanced program. It merely removes delay from browsers. Ofc there's still hardware delay differences but there's only so much you could do without going to a lab of some sorts.


----------



## Melan

I never said it's supposed to be flawless. I just said I can exploit it and logging would be a nice touch.

Oh and by the way I get the same results with this program when not using sound as I did with human benchmark. So delay isn't an issue here.


----------



## qsxcv

on windows 7 with aero off, chrome + humanbenchmark doesn't give much of a delay

btw

http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_100#post_24250938

g303 has ~4ms click lag

those of you who care about 5ms may be concerned


----------



## Melan

*Throws two G303 into thrash in the fit of rage*


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> *Throws two G303 into thrash in the fit of rage*


So you are copying Freakazoid?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> *Throws two G303 into thrash in the fit of rage*
> 
> 
> 
> So you are copying Freakazoid?
Click to expand...

He's trying Freakazoid's new exercise to grow bigger arms. The G303 throw!


----------



## Melan

I'm not familiar with your CSGO pros so idk who's that.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

You must be living under a rock.


----------



## Melan

Or just I don't care about CSGO pro scene at all. You know, I could be suffering from that very uncommon disease called "different interests".


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> *Throws two G303 into thrash in the fit of rage*
> 
> 
> 
> So you are copying Freakazoid?
Click to expand...

maybe g100s is why c9 has been doing so poorly lately


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> *Throws two G303 into thrash in the fit of rage*
> 
> 
> 
> So you are copying Freakazoid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe g100s is why c9 has been doing so poorly lately
Click to expand...

Logitech next line of products when?


----------



## fellcbr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> You palm grip the G303? How big are your hands? How do you hold it? Alien hands confirmed? Pics or riot


From the base of my hand to the tip of the middle finger is 17 cm, i think my hands are average, never really had a problem with them.



http://imgur.com/WYvR7


Reminds me of an old A4Tech mouse i had (X6-66E) but way more comfortable.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> maybe g100s is why c9 has been doing so poorly lately


Well, it appears once Freakazoid switched from the G402 to the G100S he performed better.

Skadoodle was forced to move away from his mouse (I think it was an FK) to a Logitech. He was using the G402, but didn't like it. He settled with the G100S.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fellcbr1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> You palm grip the G303? How big are your hands? How do you hold it? Alien hands confirmed? Pics or riot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the base of my hand to the tip of the middle finger is 17 cm, i think my hands are average, never really had a problem with them.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/WYvR7
> 
> 
> Reminds me of an old A4Tech mouse i had (X6-66E) but way more comfortable.
Click to expand...

Hmm your hands have assets which might be why you're not bothered by the mouse's lack of palm support.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Zenith, the app you gave about reaction times gives me consistently much less than the humanbenchmark site. Which one should be more accurate? Difference is 65ms(250ms vs 185ms)


----------



## wareya

Lower results from a computer is more accurate as long as it's not compensating for anything magical


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The program isn't affected by browser lag. Most accurate way to measure is with a ruler: http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/reaction-stick.htm


----------



## Brightmist

"Reaction stick"


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The program isn't affected by browser lag. Most accurate way to measure is with a ruler: http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/reaction-stick.htm


This is too much trouble to do 50times to gain a consistent base







I'll be sticking to the program. I guess my browser has a lot of lag,using aero and all .


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

No latency tho


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I remember I used to use that site. Had ~120-135ms avg before I started using an ank based program made by a friend (geckogates) instead because it was more accurate.
> Found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xxxt5mey6k76fvt/Sound%20Reaction.rar?dl=0


Interesting. With this program I get ~150 consistently and on the humanbenchmark reaction test I get anything between 170-200.
Is 150 a good or bad result?


----------



## gourami

after another day with this mouse my only complaint is the braided cord, maybe ill try changing it one day. also the more i play the more i love the shape, it really fits my hands


----------



## muso

So i got another one this one serial number 1529 doesn't seem to have the rattle problem.

Does anyone know ways i can test this??? i tried the paint test against an avior and i feel like its maybe just human error getting some of the end kicks.

Its no where near as obvious as the one i got before.

Mine also makes a rattle sound , sort of but the tracking doesn't seem to be effected.


----------



## MonarchX

I will stick with my much cheaper G402 Hyperion. $156 for a mouse, lol!


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Interesting. With this program I get ~150 consistently and on the humanbenchmark reaction test I get anything between 170-200.
> Is 150 a good or bad result?


Do you test with or without sound effect? Because I get as low as 100ms with sound and 180ms without.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Interesting. With this program I get ~150 consistently and on the humanbenchmark reaction test I get anything between 170-200.
> Is 150 a good or bad result?


Depends on the mouse you are using. If you are using a Logitech mouse, based off visual stimulus, a reaction time of 150ms is a decent time.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Have any of you ordered from Amazon.de? If yes, will they refund me return shipping if I return in the 30day window because of lens rattle ? From what I read on their site, if I return because I don't like it, I pay for the shipping while if the product is defective, they pay for it. Does a lens rattling mouse count as a defective unit ? Price is very good atm and I'm considering giving it a shot for a couple of weeks and returning,claiming it has lens rattle(which it'll probably have) in order to get a refund on the shipping. Of course, If I like it, I'll keep it.


----------



## Brightmist

Lens rattle should count as a defect, any rattle should count as a defect really.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Lens rattle should count as a defect, any rattle should count as a defect really.


Nice! It was priced at 45 euros but they upped the price. Do they lower it frequently to 45 or nah? Haven't used amazon like ever.


----------



## Bombilakus

I got my G303 today and I really love the shape it suits my hand. Mouse has rattling issue my question is. Can I use regular electric tape for fix? Is it too thin?


----------



## Melan

You need double-sided tape to make it stick to the shell.


----------



## Bombilakus

Ah ok, I thought that you just need to fill the gap between shell and sensor.


----------



## Bombilakus

Done







Works as intended


----------



## Brightmist

If you stick double-sided tape between sensor and shell, you might have trouble removing it next time you have double-clicking problem or smth.


----------



## Melan

Lens is attached to the sensor with 2 plastic posts and should be easily removable.


----------



## navjack27

i just noticed that if i set the mouse settings in the logitech software to use computer instead of the in-mouse settings i actually get an improvement and change when i switch the mouse hz rate. maybe its just me but now 1000hz is usable.


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> i just noticed that if i set the mouse settings in the logitech software to use computer instead of the in-mouse settings i actually get an improvement and change when i switch the mouse hz rate. maybe its just me but now 1000hz is usable.


what OS and hardware do you have?


----------



## Bombilakus

I have win 8.1 i5 [email protected] and when i test it the pooling rate jumps from 977 to 999.


----------



## Brightmist

Well I ended up jerry rigging a pinky rest for my g303 and it became extremely comfortable. Here are some pics:

At first I stacked some thick double sided tape to get a proper curve.


Then I trimmed the double sided tape a bit and put on some electrical tape (cause it has a rubber surface).


Highly recommended


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Lens is attached to the sensor with 2 plastic posts and should be easily removable.


I think you meant tabs.


----------



## Melan

No, I meant posts.


----------



## qsxcv

yea there are two posts that are heat staked in logitech's 3366 mice. http://www.amadamiyachieurope.com/cmdata/images/Applications/photoLarge/HeatStaking.jpg
so even if you use double sided tape it would still be reasonably easy to remove both pcb+lens from the shell

if you want to separate the lens from the sensor you need to clip off the top parts of the posts.


----------



## Melan

It looks like it supposed to have 4 of those though, which could stop the wobble.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

You guys think 90A orings would work?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Is the lens wobble fixed on new batches?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> You guys think 90A orings would work?


No. Stop putting that stuff into sensor assembly. Just use double sided tape.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Tape is too thin to put between pcb and lens


----------



## Melan

You're not supposed to put it between pcb and lens, duh. Put it between shell and lens.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You're not supposed to put it between pcb and lens, duh. Put it between shell and lens.


So I assume the lens rattle is still an unfixed issue?


----------



## Melan

No idea. First batch G303 didn't have this issue at all. Later batches did and I guess it's more of a gamble now.


----------



## Bombilakus

Used regular tape just did a circle so it works as doublesided tape








I know the tape looks bulky but its actually flat and i didn't ****ed up the LOD. Mouse works superb now!


----------



## DrSebWilkes

What
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bombilakus*
> 
> 
> Used regular tape just did a circle so it works as doublesided tape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the tape looks bulky but its actually flat and i didn't ****ed up the LOD. Mouse works superb now!


What are you doing for replacement mouse feet now?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

He could get skates from takasta's shop. 11/10 would recommend.


----------



## Melan

Or just buy MX-1 hyperglides and don't cover holes at all in case if you need to take it apart for cleaning or any other reason.


----------



## Bombilakus

Ive returned skates and they are pefectly flat without any damage. But ill order new faster ones from ebay just to try it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Or just buy MX-1 hyperglides and don't cover holes at all in case if you need to take it apart for cleaning or any other reason.


Could you link me the hyperglides you seem to rave on about? Im interested in trying them lol. TIme to lose my hyperglide virginity


----------



## Melan

http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=mx_skates_1


----------



## muso

Mine rattles but i can't see any noticeable problem in game, is there a way to test it to see if its slight? or is it always very obvious?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> Mine rattles but i can't see any noticeable problem in game, is there a way to test it to see if its slight? or is it always very obvious?


My mouse wheel makes some noise when I shake it but that's not the problem that's mentioned here. The sensor wobbling is the issue, to test it, you can just run paint, hold mouse1 and do small fast swipes.

If you see a consistent humps in between swipes, your sensor wobbles. When I had the issue, I could see it happening in CSGO, so it's pretty obvious.


----------



## muso

http://puu.sh/lqMMU/78f7ac6bc4.png On the left is the 303 on the right is my Avior.. I think theres too much human error to see it this way.

Yeah i can't see it in csgo, like ill snap to a point to see if it jumps but it doesn't


----------



## muso

How can it rattle but not have the issue?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> http://puu.sh/lqMMU/78f7ac6bc4.png On the left is the 303 on the right is my Avior.. I think theres too much human error to see it this way.
> 
> Yeah i can't see it in csgo, like ill snap to a point to see if it jumps but it doesn't


Look here: 




The 4th and the 5th line he draws, I had the exact same pattern in my defective one but not the one I have now. I'm sure there's some human error but a sensor wobble will make it much more prominent.

There's also a video here somewhere which shows it happening in CSGO.


----------



## muso

http://puu.sh/lqO3F/3687be87a0.png Yeah see i get that in paint but i honestly think its just me doing that since it happens slightly with my avior but because its heavier not as much.

i see no evidence of it in CSGO. Maybe i should take it back but i honestly don't know how ill justify that its defective?

The first one i had i could blatantly see it rattle the mouse cursor when i moved it. but this one i can't see that.

http://puu.sh/lqOmq/568ccd979d.png This is me now swiping the opposite direction, avior on top and 303 on bottom.

http://puu.sh/lqOxC/8adfa569d4.png can hardly tell them apart.

I noticed if i put my finger on the bottom and shake the mouse it rattles.


----------



## Kyal

Not really an issue just kind of annoying, but does anyone else's logo LED get stuck on purple randomly when on colour cycle until you open the drives and go into the LED settings?


----------



## muso

Just grabbed a new one and returned the last the lines do look different, there's no rattle and if i put my finger under it and shake there's not any huge jitter


----------



## Bombilakus

Mine has zero jitter after tape fix.


----------



## bigtastie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> He could get skates from takasta's shop. 11/10 would recommend.


Which one should I choose, performance or competition? Which are the smoothest? And what thickness for that matter


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bigtastie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> He could get skates from takasta's shop. 11/10 would recommend.
> 
> 
> 
> Which one should I choose, performance or competition? Which are the smoothest? And what thickness for that matter
Click to expand...

Competition. Keep in mind that there is a cover on the skates that you have to peel off first.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> How can it rattle but not have the issue?


I think the rattle gets worse over time because when I first got the G303, there was no rattle. Then it started and eventually became blatantly obvious in game.

My RMA'd one rattles but it's the wheel and the side buttons making the noise. The sensor is still perfect. I believe the serial number starts with 1512.


----------



## gourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Not really an issue just kind of annoying, but does anyone else's logo LED get stuck on purple randomly when on colour cycle until you open the drives and go into the LED settings?


that happened to me (although it was blue not purple). i set 3 equal profiles on the driver, set the drivers to not start with windows, and restarted, never happened again


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Not really an issue just kind of annoying, but does anyone else's logo LED get stuck on purple randomly when on colour cycle until you open the drives and go into the LED settings?


You can manually set the coloring of the 2 zones as you prefer it, using this guide . Personally i use blue logo and red sides with the breathing effect and it is awesome


----------



## hotwheels1997

Do any of you feel pain in the wrist/back of palm and around thumb? Been playing around with it coming for an ergo mouse and it cause a lot of pain + shakey hands. Like,my hands have little tremble if you get what I mean.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Do any of you feel pain in the wrist/back of palm and around thumb? Been playing around with it coming for an ergo mouse and it cause a lot of pain + shakey hands. Like,my hands have little tremble if you get what I mean.


Thats the reason I ordered the final mouse. I had horrible wrist cramping using the G303


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Thats the reason I ordered the final mouse. I had horrible wrist cramping using the G303


How many days did you give it ? I'll definitely give it my fair bit of testing before returning and ordering the EC2.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> How many days did you give it ? I'll definitely give it my fair bit of testing before returning and ordering the EC2.


I used it roughly a week. My wrist was sore for a few days after also. I went to the Ec2a while my final mouse shipped. Must say wrist pain is gone now


----------



## gourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Do any of you feel pain in the wrist/back of palm and around thumb? Been playing around with it coming for an ergo mouse and it cause a lot of pain + shakey hands. Like,my hands have little tremble if you get what I mean.


no, the g303 is really comfortable for me. id advice against using a mouse that gives you pain, wrist problems are scary


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gourami*
> 
> no, the g303 is really comfortable for me. id advice against using a mouse that gives you pain, wrist problems are scary


It ends up warping my ring finger insanely much that it's godawful to use it. A return in order,I guess. My grip is weird, I suppose. I try to palm grip it but my hand is pointing to the left which makes it very uncomfortable.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> How many days did you give it ? I'll definitely give it my fair bit of testing before returning and ordering the EC2.


I had to use the G303 for over a month or ~150 hours before it felt natural. However I didn't have any kind of pain at any point.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I had to use the G303 for over a month or ~150 hours before it felt natural. However I didn't have any kind of pain at any point.


Wow. I did 150hrs of game time in the last 6 months. That'll be too much just in order to get comfy.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Do any of you feel pain in the wrist/back of palm and around thumb? Been playing around with it coming for an ergo mouse and it cause a lot of pain + shakey hands. Like,my hands have little tremble if you get what I mean.


Yes. Some days my hand gets completely numb too. I think its because the butt doesn't taper off like most mice.


----------



## phrax

posted about it before but yep, gives me wrist pain too. DON'T try to push through it and get used to the shape if it's painful/very uncomfortable, that's a recipe for joint problems


----------



## Brightmist

G303 shape is just bad. They should've just gone all-in with an ergonomic shape instead making right side of it straight curving only near right click and butt.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> G303 shape is just bad. They should've just gone all-in with an ergonomic shape instead making right side of it straight curving only near right click and butt.


Your hand or grip is bad for the G303.


----------



## Brightmist

With a jerry-rigged pinky rest I'm actually pretty happy with it.

Doesn't change the fact they would've moved way more units with a g100s rehash if they slapped 3366 and some side buttons on it.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> With a jerry-rigged pinky rest I'm actually pretty happy with it.
> 
> Doesn't change the fact they would've moved way more units with a g100s rehash if they slapped 3366 and some side buttons on it.


I agree with that but you still can't say that the G303 shape is bad. It feels natural and comfortable for many people.


----------



## Brightmist

I honestly doubt that.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> With a jerry-rigged pinky rest I'm actually pretty happy with it.
> 
> Doesn't change the fact they would've moved way more units with a g100s rehash if they slapped 3366 and some side buttons on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with that but you still can't say that the G303 shape is bad. It feels natural and comfortable for many people.
Click to expand...

Lmao what drugs have you been on? No one in the right mind would agree with that statement.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Lmao what drugs have you been on? No one in the right mind would agree with that statement.


I haven't been on that many recently but even one of my friends who tried my setup decided to buy a G303 because it was so comfy.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Lmao what drugs have you been on? No one in the right mind would agree with that statement.


Except people who successfully use 303 without any issues and like the mouse.


----------



## Derp

My post must have stepped on someones feelers. You guys need to stop taking these mouse discussions so personally.


----------



## Maximillion

Are people really arguing whether or not the shape of a mouse is comfortable for _all_ people? lol.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> for many people.


yea say 100000 people bought g303 and 90% hated the shape and 10% loved it. 10000 people would probably count as "many", but the point is that probably more people don't like the shape


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I don't even think about the mouse shape anymore really.


----------



## Bombilakus

I just picked up mouse and it suited me after 1 game of Battlefield 4. Its kinda similar to the Razer Naga that i owned. I know people will say its different shape and ergonomics but the way I have held naga thats the way I hold G303 and it suits me! I must be one of the lucky ones


----------



## boogdud

We all that way after the first few hours. After a week or more, the problems will likely start to bother you.


----------



## Bombilakus

TBH Im one of those who could play with brick


----------



## Brightmist

Yea, first few hours you're under the awe of spring-loaded clicks.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I agree with that but you still can't say that the G303 shape is bad. It feels natural and comfortable for many people.


I've stated this a few times before: The initial design works, they just need to smooth out the mouse a bit, work more with curves rather then sharp edges. For instance the back for some people, the sharp edges can portrude in between the bones of 2 fingers (as they extend into your hand) and this, after prolonged time, can actually create a pretty nasty sore feeling.

It's not the shape that is the problem, it's the "strong" edges.

If you look at the "top" preferred shapes (top between "", as I'm excluding clueless casual gamers who just play for an hour a day or w/e), they all have 1 thing in common: A smooth shape, curves and no strong edges.

The only exception to that case was the MX518, but even then some people complained about the strong edge at the top front, causing a sore ring finger for some.

You might not experience these issues, but everyone has a different hand, different muscles (grip tension), ...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yea say 100000 people bought g303 and 90% hated the shape and 10% loved it. 10000 people would probably count as "many", but the point is that probably more people don't like the shape


According to the poll on this forum 60% dislike, 40% liked.

But what if we added a 3rd option: "I don't mind the shape but I would've preferred a G100S shape"

Odds are we'd most likely would be getting closer to only 20% preferring the shape.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> Yea, first few hours you're under the awe of spring-loaded clicks.


The buttons felt bad for me. They clicked too easy. The way I held the mouse, I was misclicking a lot. My grip is very ergo-orientated. The DA2013 has very soft buttons but the G303 ones were so much softer. They definitely had more clicky-feel which I liked but it was just too easy to click them, pressure was barely needed.
On another hand,while the shape was godawful, I was able to make some fine adjustments while aiming with it that I couldn't do with a larger mouse.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> The buttons felt bad for me. They clicked too easy. The way I held the mouse, I was misclicking a lot. My grip is very ergo-orientated. The DA2013 has very soft buttons but the G303 ones were so much softer. They definitely had more clicky-feel which I liked but it was just too easy to click them, pressure was barely needed.
> On another hand,while the shape was godawful, I was able to make some fine adjustments while aiming with it that I couldn't do with a larger mouse.


I felt the buttons, on the G303 I used, could have been a little lighter.

If you are used to using mice with a lot of pre travel it will be harder to get used to a mouse that doesn't have it.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

Any other good mice with the same feel of the 303 clicks ? Thats my favorite part of the mouse.


----------



## hotwheels1997

How I grip it:


----------



## argentum

Bought on the whim a used Logitech G400 2nd version and after playing with for a while, tried G303 again - the conclusion - do not want, gimme my dear 400. G400 sensor is pretty good and the shape is like to die for, at least for my hand.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> My post must have stepped on someones feelers. You guys need to stop taking these mouse discussions so personally.



Worry not I have it saved.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> Any other good mice with the same feel of the 303 clicks ? Thats my favorite part of the mouse.


Only the G303 and G302 have those amazing clicks. Best clicks available IMO.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> Worry not I have it saved.


Oh there it is! Someone complained about hand pain after using the G303. Showing a professional player that uses a G303 with hand pain is just way off topic and trolling.









Many of us have taken a Daedalus to the hand, you're not alone @hotwheels1997


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Only the G303 and G302 have those amazing clicks. Best clicks available IMO.
> Oh there it is! Someone complained about hand pain after using the G303. Showing a professional player that uses a G303 with hand pain is just way off topic and trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many of us have taken a Daedalus to the hand, you're not alone @hotwheels1997


Poor shroudy,he's my favourite player. The sensor in this mouse is definitely good, but I can't aim with it. It makes my hand cry. Furthermore,using 1000dpi in windows felt awful and I simply couldn't control it. No such issue with other mice.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Only the G303 and G302 have those amazing clicks. Best clicks available IMO.
> Oh there it is! Someone complained about hand pain after using the G303. Showing a professional player that uses a G303 with hand pain is just way off topic and trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many of us have taken a Daedalus to the hand, you're not alone @hotwheels1997
> 
> 
> 
> Poor shroudy,he's my favourite player. The sensor in this mouse is definitely good, but I can't aim with it. It makes my hand cry. Furthermore,using 1000dpi in windows felt awful and I simply couldn't control it. No such issue with other mice.
Click to expand...


My salvation from RSI


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> 
> Worry not I have it saved.


I can't believe someone screencapped this from stream in the first place, then screencapped the screencap


----------



## Melan

We need to go deeper.


----------



## jtl999

there


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

This is Inception!


----------



## johnsamuels

Just took a bit (a lot) of getting used to, but works fine for me now (shape wise). Not happy about the lens rattle, trying to chase up a new one from Logitech.


----------



## gourami

i honestly feel bad about liking this mouse and finding it comfortable, every time i come to this thread


----------



## Melan

Yeah, shame on you for liking what others don't like.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yeah, shame on you for liking what others don't like.


The mouse shape is good,for some. No reason to feel bad about being comfy with it,feel nice about it even.


----------



## Melan

No! Mouse is bad and you should feel bad! Look sad damn it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No! Mouse is bad and you should feel bad! Look sad damn it.


Kappa


----------



## Melan

Related.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Related.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Did you just make that?


----------



## Melan

No. Stole from CPate's page.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Just tried double sided tape fix. Now my LOD decreased again and 500 dpi feels slower than my WMO. Feels faster moving down than up like there's accel or something


----------



## wareya

what kinda tape did you use, transparent doublesided scotch tape?

vertical movement might be effected by lense positioning if it's not centered vertically, idk


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> what kinda tape did you use, transparent doublesided scotch tape?
> 
> vertical movement might be effected by lense positioning if it's not centered vertically, idk



I used this. I made a O and stuck it between the lens and the shell.


----------



## wareya

seems thick

I used this on my KPM and the lod was only very slightly lower, like less than 1/5th of a millimeter. I plan on removing my skates and going pure teflon tape in the future (the KPM has raised rings around the skate locations so it's perfect)

http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Double-Sided-Dispenser-Inches/dp/B00004Z47L

but I bought it at a store instead of online because it's common









Note poster tape sticks less and is thicker and scotch makes poster tape so you should be picky


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I think Im just going to not play anything til my Xornet arrives. Just a couple more days....


----------



## navjack27

i did a thing. i wanted to know what REAL WORLD mouse stuff was like. I started mouse tester and then loaded up csgo like i usually do. i closed everything in the BG like i usually do. for the most part it hovers around 1ms ISH but *** is with that damn if the mouse is still for even a microsecond, the next captured packet is CRAZY up there in response time. is this correct? its not like i have selective usb suspend crap on or anything, in fact i have ZERO power saving craps enabled. so what's this?


----------



## qsxcv

that's normal. if there is no motion the mouse doesn't respond to usb polls since it's pointless to send (0,0) to the computer.


----------



## Trippy

So, my mouse cable on my G303 got all bent out of shape and f'd up so I got Logitech to send me a replacement and they didn't ask for my current G303 back. So what I'm thinking of doing is replacing the cable on my old g303, I don't really care if it's a braided cable or not but just needs to be really flexible. Also, does the cable use a plug or is it soldered to the pcb? And one more thing is the mouse shell held together using like security hex or torx screws or something like that.


----------



## jtl999

Very small phillips screws.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> 
> 
> Very small phillips screws.


Alright, any cables that your recommend?


----------



## jtl999

G400, DA3.5G, various zowie.

(G400 and MX518 generic cables are stupidly thick I hear)

Make sure color coding matches with the old one (!!)


----------



## Trippy

I really like the cable on the deathadder 3.5g(I used to have one) so I might get one of those.


----------



## qsxcv

i fit a da cable in my g303 but had to trim and rotate the stress-relief part a bit, and also fold the cable near the connector as it was too long. but it works and makes the mouse feel quite a bit lighter.


----------



## plyr

Cable from G400 and G400s fit well on new logitech mice, they have the same conector inside the mouse...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Just bought it for $25 on Amazon. Hope it's nice! Didn't risk much with it, so that's nice.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Just bought it for $25 on Amazon. Hope it's nice! Didn't risk much with it, so that's nice.


$25 is an incredible deal if the lens isn't loose and your hand agrees with the shape.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Just bought it for $25 on Amazon. Hope it's nice! Didn't risk much with it, so that's nice.


holy crap! just bought one from logitech for €69.99









also it arrived today and is rattling...









S/N 1511


----------



## LegoFarmer

Yeah
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> $25 is an incredible deal if the lens isn't loose and your hand agrees with the shape.


Yeah I really hope the lens is good.


----------



## CrazyAngelDude

Gone through four of these now. The third one I bought starts with 1524, probably the latest batch, and rattles. Logitech sent me another one with different box art and serial number 1511, it also rattles.

Someone said something about Logitech sending out replacements with plastic poles that hold the sensor in place. Picture proof, please? They had no idea what I was talking about when I spoke to them.


----------



## Melan

Plastic poles were used to attach lens to the sensor before even before that. They are fragile though and break, at least 2 of mine did.


----------



## CrazyAngelDude

Did you ever manage to get your hands on one that didn't rattle? I'm not sure if I should keep bothering Logitech support. Perhaps it's better to wait for another mouse with the 3366 sensor...


----------



## Melan

First batch 303 I got from logitech didn't rattle.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

$25? Damn I'd might as well pick up another spare.


----------



## Brightmist

I did.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyAngelDude*
> 
> Did you ever manage to get your hands on one that didn't rattle? I'm not sure if I should keep bothering Logitech support. Perhaps it's better to wait for another mouse with the 3366 sensor...


With hopefully a better shape


----------



## CrazyAngelDude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I did.


Are you sure you didn't order the G302? That's the only one I can find for $25.


----------



## Brightmist

I'm 100%. Promotion might be over now tho.


----------



## qsxcv

best buy still has it it seems


----------



## trism

...cheapest one in Finland is 67.90€...sigh...


----------



## LegoFarmer

How are the clicks on this guy?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> How are the clicks on this guy?


Best clicks ever.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Best clicks ever.


Super stoked now... Can't believe I ordered it for $25 new


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Super stoked now... Can't believe I ordered it for $25 new


I'm not even exaggerating it. Logitech has this spring tensioning system on the G302 and G303 and AFAIK no other mouse has it.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I'm not even exaggerating it. Logitech has this spring tensioning system on the G302 and G303 and AFAIK no other mouse has it.


Describe what they're like lol


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Describe what they're like lol


I'm bad at describing but they feel very crips. When I press the clicks they immediately actuate and bounce back up almost as fast as I can lift my finger.


----------



## trism

Whether you like them or not really depends on your preference and grip. I absolutely hate the clicks because it's way too easy for me to misclick them. I literally pressed them once or twice in a _minute_ by accident. But if you don't keep that much force on your fingers when you're gripping the mouse, they're by far the 'fastest'/lightest clicks possible.


----------



## qsxcv

spring doesnt do it directly. it just allows them to design the shell so that the parts which bend are very flexible. if you took out the springs the buttons will still probably feel fine but will be loose like on wmo


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 has best clicks ever.

Also anyone else developed a soft tissue bump on their wrist? (mine is like two inches below the wrist on the side of the pinky)


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G303 has best clicks ever.
> 
> Also anyone else developed a soft tissue bump on their wrist? (mine is like two inches below the wrist on the side of the pinky)


I quit using it as soon as my wrist started to ache. Went to a Finalmouse. Im happy now


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I tried Finalmouse 2015 before and I couldnt wrap my head around the sensor delay. Now Im using a G100S but it feels too narrow. Inb4 Melan comes and tells me to stop gripping mice tightly.


----------



## Melan

Narrow shape has nothing to do with tight grip. Cramps that come from prolonged clenching is another story.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

If a mouse is narrow enough that it slips out of my hand unless I clench it hard it will be considered too narrow I think.


----------



## Melan

Then don't complain about cramps.


----------



## lolwatpear

I did 2 mods to improve my g303.

1. I fixed the rattle by putting two pieces of firm, but slightly compressible rubber underneath the plastic of the lense.

2. I added around 6-7 pieces of masking tape on top of the middle button to lighten up the middle click.


----------



## Kyal

Lens rattling has gotten worse on mine, what's the easiest way to fix it?


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> G303 has best clicks ever.
> 
> Also anyone else developed a soft tissue bump on their wrist? (mine is like two inches below the wrist on the side of the pinky)


That's battle scars mate.

It does help if you get a good mouse pad.


----------



## Brightmist

I'd suggest a cloth wristband to avoid callusing there.


----------



## BeeQAL

After nearly two months with this mouse, I have finally given up on it.







The sensor is objectively the best sensor out there. Period. However, the shape of the mouse is so terrible. I went back to my other mice and they all noticeably felt much better and I clearly played much better. So I'm abandoning this mouse and going back to my other trusty mice.

Logitech just had to get fancy with the G302 and G303 shape. Conventional isn't in their mindset apparently. Ruined an amazing performing sensor. I can't praise this sensor enough, but, to be honest only the hardest of hardcore mouse enthusiasts would be able to perceive any tangible difference from a 3310 which is one superb sensor. Even the 3988 and the variant (or successor) that's in the DA Chroma is great.

_Hey Logitech, if you have any reps that peruse these boards at all then please take note: it's clear that the vast majority of people dislike or hate this mouse's shape_









So, I'm no longer going to obsess over this sensor and mouse







Moving on!


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im using an Artisan Hayate Otsu Mid atm and so far I dont see a reason to exchange it. Im worried about this bump thats on the forearm (note the left side isnt straight there's a small and subtle speed bump). Im not too worried by the callousing. Nothing a buffing pad and hand lotion cant fix.


----------



## Poopsticker

Seems like rattling is still a prevalent issue? Is Logitech going to ever fix this issue?


----------



## hotwheels1997

WIth it's successor , most likely.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> WIth it's successor , most likely.


I really wish they would add rubber side grip for their next "enthusiast" small mouse


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I really wish they would add rubber side grip for their next "enthusiast" small mouse


I don't like rubber pieces.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Rubber adds more traction and increases surface area of contact.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Rubber adds more traction and increases surface area of contact.


I don't like rubber pieces.

It would be better if you could add your own rubber grips than rely on the factory to implement a feature that doesn't work well and eventually falls off or becomes useless.


----------



## connectwise

In that case get a sleeved shirt that's smooth enough to cover the area. I have one just for gaming on hard pads.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> JW uses the sensei too
> 
> I'm sure most are actually oblivious to the sensor. Glide is probably more important


JW no longer is forced to use SteelSeries, he immediately switches to Zowie. Same for Krimz.


----------



## Mych

Rubber sidegrips would be fine if done properly, but haven't experienced decent ones yet. To me they have always been slippery. Replacing DA2013's grips with bicycle tire rubber did wonders, though.


----------



## LegoFarmer

My $25 G303 arrived.
Buttons are nice, shape (strangely) works well for me, side buttons aren't bad, cable is meh, sensor is obviously great, lens rattles. Might buy mouse feet and fix the rattle. If I like the mouse through a few days of use, it will definitely happen.


----------



## TheGMT

Ever held a CM Storm Spawn? I want every mouse covered from top to bottom in the rubber the Spawn has on its sides.


----------



## Cyro999

That stuff is magical


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## LegoFarmer

So is this a valid tutorial to follow? 



I will be getting spare mouse feet, too.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> JW no longer is forced to use SteelSeries, he immediately switches to Zowie. Same for Krimz.


Which is strange that he moved to ec2 since he had the option to use the rival all these years instead of sensei


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Which is strange that he moved to ec2 since he had the option to use the rival all these years instead of sensei


Eh rival is massive and pretty heavy


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> In that case get a sleeved shirt that's smooth enough to cover the area. I have one just for gaming on hard pads.


I'll just get an arthritis gloves instead.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Which is strange that he moved to ec2 since he had the option to use the rival all these years instead of sensei


A lot of people don't like the shape of the Rival.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I've had the G303 for a day. This mouse is perfect for me aside from the lens, so I'll be fixing it. Those clicks, tho


----------



## kr0w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I've had the G303 for a day. This mouse is perfect for me aside from the lens, so I'll be fixing it. Those clicks, tho


Seriously, and for $24.99 what a steal!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kr0w*
> 
> Seriously, and for $24.99 what a steal!


Yeah, it might retire my ZA12


----------



## TheGMT

Recently switched back the G303 after a long period of dicking about. Went from it to the G100s, to an Abyssus 2014, to a G9x (don't ask why), spent a day with the Spawn, back to the Abyssus, to a Mico/Za13 combo, and now back with the mouse that still offers the best compromise, the G303. My hand hurts a lot, but I don't often miss with it. The G303 is horribly frustrating device, only because of how absurdly good it is in certain respects. I had forgotten how different this sensor felt to everything else, and how these buttons put all other manufacturers to shame. Cable's not quite as bad as I remember either. Guess I'll just soldier on with it *grumble grumble*


----------



## qsxcv

is it just me or are g402 and g502 clicks 98% as good as g303's?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> is it just me or are g402 and g502 clicks 98% as good as g303's?


Haven't tried g402 but completely agree on g502.


----------



## Melan

My G402 is almost as good as G303.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> is it just me or are g402 and g502 clicks 98% as good as g303's?


I have both. I think the G502 switches are just as tactile, but I don't have the same crispy feel. Pretty similar nonetheless. Still prefer the G303


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The G303's clicks don't feel as flat especially when you start pressing them fast (~10 clicks/second)


----------



## LegoFarmer

My only other issue with the G303 is that if I lift it up and bring it back to the pad, I feel some vibrations. I can replicate it by lifting the mouse and tapping the bottom. Anybody else feel vibrations with that stuff?


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> My only other issue with the G303 is that if I lift it up and bring it back to the pad, I feel some vibrations. I can replicate it by lifting the mouse and tapping the bottom. Anybody else feel vibrations with that stuff?


Yup. Not sure because I haven't used it in a while but if I remember its the scroll-wheel.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Yup. Not sure because I haven't used it in a while but if I remember its the scroll-wheel.


Yeah, that and the back side button have a springy feel after I depress them.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Yea I think it has something to do with the flared side causing some resonance or something.


----------



## saltedham

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I really wish they would add rubber side grip for their next "enthusiast" small mouse


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ATH0KEA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

i saw a reddit user used this stuff on his fk1 to be able to grip it better. since my fingers just slide on zowie mice and the front non glossy parts of the g303 i bought some of the gun grip tape and put it on those front slanted sides of g303. its now usable. if only the scroll wheel didnt sometimes double scroll. but i guess i can work around that by binding smoke gernade and molotov to the side mouse buttons.



didnt want to cover dem led's


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 spaceship shape didn't play well with my hand. Fortunately I jumped ship (no pun intended) and am now gleefully awaiting the arrival of my Xornet 2 which I will use until Logitech devises a good performing mouse made for human hands.


----------



## Kyal

Anyone recommend any particular brand of mouse feet to replace the stock ones with(using a qck heavy)? In Australia.


----------



## iceskeleton

Got the hotline game competition (0.6mm) from takasta shop from a recommendation here, just waiting for it to arrive. Also did the double sided tape fix for the rattle, my body is ready









from here
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item61f8bfad48


----------



## Kyal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Got the hotline game competition (0.6mm) from takasta shop from a recommendation here, just waiting for it to arrive. Also did the double sided tape fix for the rattle, my body is ready
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from here
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item61f8bfad48


Thanks for the recommendation.

Does anyone know the default feet's thickness?


----------



## iceskeleton

People also recommend the mx1 hyperglides btw, think you can buy it on their webshop
http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=mx_skates_1

so you would just put the dots on instead of having a large surface area


----------



## gene-z

Just got mine from black friday sale. Amazing mouse for $25. Replaced my FK1.

+ Can palm the entire mouse, feels f'in amazing being able to whip the mouse around like this with such ease (main reason for ditching FK1)
+ Coating is 10x better than FK1. No oil/sweat spots from holding the mouse for 5 minutes!
+ Clicks feel nice
+ Sensor as good as FK1
+ Software allows great customization
+ Scroll wheel much better than FK1
+ Good skates, prob a pain to replace so many though
+ Click reg feels faster than FK1 newest rev with decreased click latency

- Forward button placement is horrid
- Cord sucks compared to FK1 and can throw off your aim depending on cable placement.
- Glossy plastic in certain areas
- Cramps hand after an hour or so, fk1 more comfy long term use







- loosening my grip seems to help


----------



## wein07

Does anyone know if IE3.0's long oval shaped feet would be able to fit onto the G303? Thanks!


----------



## gene-z

ok, this thing is destroying my hand, lol. anyone experience lots of cramping? is it something you got use to? i can't find a grip that is good for long term. defintely not a good all day mouse for browsing.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

After 11 months of using the G302/3 shape and osu I now need to use this :/


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> After 11 months of using the G302/3 shape and osu I now need to use this :/


lmao, not sure if serious?


----------



## Maximillion

He's serious. And it's unfortunate that the $25 sale will likely cause a spike of mysterious injuries and irritations to a horde of unaware gamers oblivious to this mouse's ability to inevitably ravage their hands/wrists.


----------



## Melan

If users are stupid enough to force themselves to use something for a year that doesn't fit - they deserve it.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

But 3366. It was either spaceship or brick mouse.


----------



## fuzzybass

Ok... I'm not going to call anyone stupid, but I think I remember advising Zenith to move onto another mouse if the shape of the G303 doesn't work. I'd rather be actually be able to use a mouse, and use a mouse with a lesser sensor, than eventually not be able to use a mouse at all, while using a better sensor.


----------



## chr1spe

TBH, I'm surprised there isn't a huge g303 frankenmouse thread. I haven't taken one apart. Is it hard to fit its internals in other mice or something? Its not a huge mouse I would think it would work. Maybe I should start a side business selling frankenmice with 3366 sensors lol.

Edit: I just bought a g303 on sale for 25$ and if I don't like it my plan is to try to just put it in another shell. For 25$ I don't really see it as that much to lose. Maybe I should have bought like 10 of them and 10 g100s and tried to do a good job converting them and then ask like 75$ for them. If I wasn't planning on doing it myself I might pay 75$ for a well done g100s g303 frankenmouse, but the g100s is pretty much my favorite all time shape.


----------



## saltedham

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> But 3366. It was either spaceship or brick mouse.


I know the feel brah, i must have it. after i gave up on the g303 the first time i got the g502. its usable, but really heavy, and im not a fan of the thumb lip or sniper button. best scroll wheel ive ever used. well defined scrolls, each notch matches up with a scroll nicely unlike the g303. low latency clicks, this is now a must have for mice i use. got an fk1 and my game in counterstrike:global offensive went down the toilet.

now that i put the grip tape on the g303, my fingers dont slip and have stopped cramping. so yes the cramps can go away.


----------



## Derp

Can anyone link to a thread about any other mouse since the existence of mice that has close to the same amount of people unhappy with the shape? Or with as much hand pain from those who stick with it?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Can anyone link to a thread about any other mouse since the existence of mice that has close to the same amount of people unhappy with the shape? Or with as much hand pain from those who stick with it?


If this mouse didn't exist I would still be using a Diamondback or Copperhead.


----------



## nocebo

Is it worth the hassle to fix or return a rattling mouse? The sound doesnt annoy me at all. I have checked and the sensor is really loose so it gives me a slight "bump" when i dö fast movements.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> TBH, I'm surprised there isn't a huge g303 frankenmouse thread. I haven't taken one apart. Is it hard to fit its internals in other mice or something? Its not a huge mouse I would think it would work. Maybe I should start a side business selling frankenmice with 3366 sensors lol.
> 
> Edit: I just bought a g303 on sale for 25$ and if I don't like it my plan is to try to just put it in another shell. For 25$ I don't really see it as that much to lose. Maybe I should have bought like 10 of them and 10 g100s and tried to do a good job converting them and then ask like 75$ for them. If I wasn't planning on doing it myself I might pay 75$ for a well done g100s g303 frankenmouse, but the g100s is pretty much my favorite all time shape.


The optical scroll-wheel stops most frankenmouse projects dead in the tracks but it should be possible with a G100s since it to uses the same wheel mounting system the G303 uses.

Infact I believe h8m3 (from esr) and povohat have done it before and I found one of their build links: http://drok-radnik.com/junk/g100s_g303_mod/

So good-luck








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> I made one of those too (a few pics), it's not the most difficult mod in the world because the main buttons line up quite nicely. There's no soldering required, but I did use a rotary tool to extend the sensor hole in the bottom shell, remove some plastic from the base/sides to allow the board to fit, and dig into the bottom shell a bit to get the sensor as close to the pad as possible (due to the low default LOD).
> 
> The hardest part is making the middle click work, as the button is in a slightly different location. I glued an offcut from the bottom shell and part of the scroll wheel stem from a deathadder to the scroll wheel assembly so it would reach the button. Someone else on ESR has made a version with a working DPI button too, but I didn't bother because I never used it.


EDIT: More info on G100s - 303 build
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h8m3*
> 
> this is the one i made for winz
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11777259/20150706_014058.jpg
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11777259/20150706_014216.jpg
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11777259/20150706_013831.jpg


----------



## Ickz

Using g303 since release. Hand is fine. One of the most comfortable mice I've used. Yay


----------



## gene-z

Going to try and give this another try today. Hopefully the cramping was just because I am use to the FK1 shape. I really prefer this over the FK1 if I can get comfy with it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Is it worth the hassle to fix or return a rattling mouse? The sound doesnt annoy me at all. I have checked and the sensor is really loose so it gives me a slight "bump" when i dö fast movements.


Are you sure it's the lens rattling? I thought mine had the rattle also, but it was the scroll wheel making a feint sound when moving it really fast. Try putting your fingertip to hold the scroll wheel in place and then swiping it back and forth.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Is it worth the hassle to fix or return a rattling mouse? The sound doesnt annoy me at all. I have checked and the sensor is really loose so it gives me a slight "bump" when i dö fast movements.


Considering the whole point of a gaming mouse is low latency and consistency (ability to perform in a predictable manner in every situation you throw at it) I think the answer should be obvious. GL building solid muscle memory with a shaky lens.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I honestly hate the G303. It's the mouse that I always buy and return and even now that I found the perfect shaped mouse for me,I still want to have the G303,just to have lying around. There's something special about it, like a forbidden fruit or smth


----------



## rpalmer92

I got cramps from the G303 for a month or so. My hand naturally loosened up and I now lightly claw or fingertip it.


----------



## gene-z

Not sure what happened over night, but no cramps so far today.


----------



## Melan

Cramps took a day off. They'll be back tomorrow.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

With so much love for this sensor and hate for the 302/3 shapes, how long could it possibly be for a modular shell 3366 g9x successor? Any company in any industry resisting the urge to produce cheap optional plastic up charge items is like cats resisting catnip. Unless there's another sensor in the works..


----------



## Melan

Feels like a wheel is dying. Bumps becoming less apparent and wheel starts to overshoot sometimes.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyotkyotkyot*
> 
> With so much love for this sensor and hate for the 302/3 shapes, how long could it possibly be for a modular shell 3366 g9x successor? Any company in any industry resisting the urge to produce cheap optional plastic up charge items is like cats resisting catnip. Unless there's another sensor in the works..


I doubt it. 3366 is far ahead of any of other optical sensor and Im pretty sure the sensor is gimped (36x36 out of 40x40). Logitech probably nerfed it so we could get an "improvement" next year.


----------



## qsxcv

36x36 cropping may be to reduce noise at edge. or they found it to be a better tradeoff for array size vs framerate.

but having 12000dpi even though the current srom supports 12800dpi corrobates your guess


----------



## iceskeleton

Does the plastic piece at the edge of the board do anything? Removed it and thought nothing of it


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Cramps took a day off. They'll be back tomorrow.


I don't know. It seems to be getting more comfortable. I think I got cramps because i was trying o use the same grip as the FK1. No cramps so far today with it on day 2.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> I don't know. It seems to be getting more comfortable. I think I got cramps because i was trying o use the same grip as the FK1. No cramps so far today with it on day 2.


In my experience you will get used to the shape of any mouse after a while. Usually a week or two. Just game until you start to get sore then take a break for however long you feel the need.

People talking about developing carpel tunnel from the shape of a mouse makes me very doubtful. It was most likely a problem before the mouse.


----------



## chace90

The first g303 I got had a loose lens and I thought that was he reason it was skipping. I rma'd the mouse and got new one. Sadly this one skips too even with the latest firmware. I am wondering if I got another loose lens and just can't hear a rattle. The mouse pad I am using is a qck heavy. I went ahead and got a corsair sabre optical which has a much more processed feel which I don't like very much but it is consistent. When the g303 doesn't skip it is great and the clicks are amazing. It just messes with my head too much knowing that it can skip at any moment.


----------



## popups

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/672862709382254594Quote:


> "@*dupreehCSGO back on the ZOWIE fk1 mouse*, so far looks like the Dupreeh we all know and feared!"


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/672864422902239232


according to his twitch he used the brick version of the 3366 with 1 sens @ 800 dpi. doesnt come off as a surprise to me considering he would have to use his wrist a lot and these people play all day long everyday


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arsn*
> 
> according to his twitch he used the brick version of the 3366 with 1 sens @ 800 dpi. doesnt come off as a surprise to me considering he would have to use his wrist a lot and these people play all day long everyday


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> *People talking about developing carpel tunnel from the shape of a mouse makes me very doubtful.* It was most likely a problem before the mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> *If users are stupid enough to force themselves to use something for a year that doesn't fit - they deserve it.*


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*


im not sure where youre quoting that guy from but how else does he think you develop carpel tunnel? don't a lot of professional video game players develop wrist and hand problems very early in their lifes due to playing?

anyway i personally dont think the g502 shape is bad. I think the mouse is just too heavy mostly because of the scrollwheel.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arsn*
> 
> im not sure where youre quoting that guy from but how else does he think you develop carpel tunnel? don't a lot of professional video game players develop wrist and hand problems very early in their lifes due to playing?
> 
> anyway i personally dont think the g502 shape is bad. I think the mouse is just too heavy mostly because of the scrollwheel.


Just pointing out the words of people who like/defend the G302/3.


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Just pointing out the words of people who like/defend the G302/3.


oh I see


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I should use my spare G303 at work, but I've gotten so used to having the third button on the f1010/f2020.


----------



## gene-z

Yeah, I switched back to the FK1. The cramps came back on my thumb and wrist. Shame because I thought I was getting use to it.

Maybe they should take the sensor and go with the older G9X shape that was small and considered comfortable. I like the idea of a smaller mouse, as it feels like you have better control of it, but it shouldn't come at the cost of comfort.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

For the record I have carpal tunnel syndrome and trigger finger on my left hand and cubital tunnel syndrome on my right hand (mouse hand). I think unknowledgeable people usually associate carpal tunnel syndrome with RSI. No there's different types of RSI and yes I am getting mine treated. Im not sure how much I can recover seeing how there's already a significant amount of muscle atrophy.


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> For the record I have carpal tunnel syndrome and trigger finger on my left hand and cubital tunnel syndrome on my right hand (mouse hand). I think unknowledgeable people usually associate carpal tunnel syndrome with RSI. No there's different types of RSI and yes I am getting mine treated. Im not sure how much I can recover seeing how there's already a significant amount of muscle atrophy.


damn. all of that sounds harsh. If you're refering a bit to what I said I honestly don't know what the differences are between all of that stuff but are they all related to gaming or some of it is genetic?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

RSI is caused from overuse so clearly too much time spent gaming. The G303 shape probably accelerated the process manyfold.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> RSI is caused from overuse so clearly too much time spent gaming. The G303 shape probably accelerated the process manyfold.


Then as a preventive measure I would've stopped using the G303/do a shell transplant.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I've tried many times but I am too noob to do such a modification. Instead I use a Xornet 2 which I'm quite happy with. I really hope Logitech could put a 3366 in a mouse of similar dimensions.


----------



## wareya

So the xornet 2 finally satisfied you? I'll put it on my list


----------



## Brightmist

My backup G303 arrived, S/N starts with 1539, no lens rattle, again.

Feet also looks better compared to my first unit I pre-ordered.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> So the xornet 2 finally satisfied you? I'll put it on my list


Once the LOD issue is fixed and the cable replaced, it will satisfy me completely. Ofc no comment on durability yet but I don't mind buying a couple more. Just waiting on a sale so I can grab a bunch of them. So far I have replaced the custom lens with my G100S lens and the stock skates for hotline competition skates.


----------



## Kenji

Got one of these moving from years of using the CM Storm Spawn, and since the Xornet II errors at high tracking speed decided to give this a whirl. Love it, only gripe is the lacklustre mouse feet so far.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Anybody in Europe willing to sell second hand at low price ( i'm not after perfect conditions ,just for it to work ) ? Sorry if not the place for asking.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Anybody in Europe willing to sell second hand at low price ( i'm not after perfect conditions ,just for it to work ) ? Sorry if not the place for asking.


Or get a full priced [new] one and if you no like, send it back?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Or get a full priced [new] one and if you no like, send it back?


I want it as a toy mouse, I have a main mouse that I love.


----------



## Agenesis

Does surface tuning actually do anything?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Does surface tuning actually do anything?


Lowers LOD


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agenesis*
> 
> Does surface tuning actually do anything?


Lowers LOD and made the tracking feel slightly better to me.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Lowers LOD and made the tracking feel slightly better to me.


It should not affect tracking in a positive way. There is no way to calibrate how it sees a surface, only a way to calibrate LOD (which is basically changing the infrared light brightness). Many, MANY people had problems with surface tuning before the recent update to the software when the sensor would behave erratically. It would be a pretty big stretch to say it has gone from lowering sensor quality to improving it after an update IMO.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hfcobra*
> 
> It should not affect tracking in a positive way. There is no way to calibrate how it sees a surface, only a way to calibrate LOD (which is basically changing the infrared light brightness). Many, MANY people had problems with surface tuning before the recent update to the software when the sensor would behave erratically. It would be a pretty big stretch to say it has gone from lowering sensor quality to improving it after an update IMO.


It honestly made the tracking feel more accurate and snappy to me. Mouse Tester even showed me a much tighter plot when i compared it to default after. Also, i don't think surface calibration used to cause the mouse to malfunction due to lower tracking quality in the sense im referring to, came across as a bug to me.
Quote:


> only a way to calibrate LOD (which is basically changing the infrared light brightness)


Are you sure about this or is this a guess? serious question as it would be the first i've heard of this regarding the 3366.


----------



## Melan

It's the same with headlights, brighter they are, further you can see.


----------



## TriviumKM

Point taken. Going to throw it back on default and see if i notice a difference or if it was all in my head.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Point taken. Going to throw it back on default and see if i notice a difference or if it was all in my head.


Maybe get a friend / family to do a blind test?


----------



## LegoFarmer

So I fixed the lens rattling with the tape fix. It somehow fixed the scroll wheel vibration and I put tape over one of the side button switches to prevent a springy vibration that I didn't like. My $25 G303 is now God-mode lol


----------



## TriviumKM

Played around with it some more and i still feel the same: tracking feels better to me with surface calibration on. My aim feels nice and crisp when i have it on so i'm keeping it this way despite the low lod.


----------



## hfcobra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> It honestly made the tracking feel more accurate and snappy to me. Mouse Tester even showed me a much tighter plot when i compared it to default after. Also, i don't think surface calibration used to cause the mouse to malfunction due to lower tracking quality in the sense im referring to, came across as a bug to me.
> Are you sure about this or is this a guess? serious question as it would be the first i've heard of this regarding the 3366.


It's either the brightness or the focus of the lens being changed.


----------



## qsxcv

afaik it's just lod thresholds and maybe exposure settings


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Does exposure setting affect the fps of the sensor?


----------



## qsxcv

uhhhh it could but pretty sure logitech restricts the parameters such that fps isn't affected by surface calibration... at least not significantly


----------



## lifesosian

just received my g303, sensor rattles. should i ask for a replacement? or is it fine.
does the rattling affect tracking? tried playing csgo with it seems fine to me, cant feel any problem.


----------



## Melan

Well, if you can't feel any problems then it's fine. Logitech will still replace it if something goes wrong in the future.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lifesosian*
> 
> just received my g303, sensor rattles. should i ask for a replacement? or is it fine.
> does the rattling affect tracking? tried playing csgo with it seems fine to me, cant feel any problem.


Watch this and read the description. The product is defective if the lens is loose. The problem is so common that the author of that video got sent another G303 with a loose lens as a replacement. The solution was to void the warranty and modify the mouse to work properly.


----------



## trism

That video is most likely human error. I can replicate the behavior with any mouse or stop it from happening entirely by changing the grip style/applied force. Applies to a G303 with a rattling sensor lens too.

EDIT: Or maybe his lens rattles much more than in the one I tried.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> That video is most likely human error. I can replicate the behavior with any mouse or stop it from happening entirely by changing the grip style/applied force. Applies to a G303 with a rattling sensor lens too.
> 
> EDIT: Or maybe his lens rattles much more than in the one I tried.


Mine did the same,with a barely noticeable rattle.


----------



## Agenesis

Thought I was fine with the shape but the pain started settling in after three days so I decided to do this:










No more weird pinky bending







The material used is Silverstone noise proofing foam. Works great for decoupling watercooling pumps as well!

Also stripped the hard cable sleeving and now the cable is super soft and flexible as you can see with the bend radius. Mouse bungees can't even hope to compete.


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> That video is most likely human error. I can replicate the behavior with any mouse or stop it from happening entirely by changing the grip style/applied force. Applies to a G303 with a rattling sensor lens too.
> 
> EDIT: Or maybe his lens rattles much more than in the one I tried.


This. It's human error people. I can replicate it with any mouse. The reason it's easier for the bloke in the video to not have that whip back effect with the G502 is cause the thing weighs 130g as opposed to the G303's ~85g. That whip back thing on stopping the mouse is just the hand resetting to a neutral stop position and taking the mouse with it, thus giving that effect.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The sensor whipping is from then lens moving differently from the shell. If anything the effect would be much greater on the G502 (if it had the same issue) because there will be a greater speed difference between the shell and the lens.


----------



## qsxcv

g502's sensor/lens is mounted much more securely than g303.


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> This. It's human error people. I can replicate it with any mouse. The reason it's easier for the bloke in the video to not have that whip back effect with the G502 is cause the thing weighs 130g as opposed to the G303's ~85g. That whip back thing on stopping the mouse is just the hand resetting to a neutral stop position and taking the mouse with it, thus giving that effect.


I'm in agreement this is human error. People love claiming something's broke like the last time with the g502 and that 'circle' test.


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The sensor whipping is from then lens moving differently from the shell. If anything the effect would be much greater on the G502 (if it had the same issue) because there will be a greater speed difference between the shell and the lens.


Nah man I'm gonna have to disagree. When I noticed this phenomenon I tried to replicate it with every mouse I got my hands on. I work at a school in IT so that wasn't hard. Tried over 10 throughout the next (man it woulda looked funny me quickly opening mspaint and flicking back and forth) and was easily able to replicate it with a relaxed grip, then stop it almost completely with a firm grip.

Definitely human error. G303 is a great mouse. Just get on with clicking heads!


----------



## Melan

To confirm it you'll need a robotic arm. Sadly these aren't readily available around for such curiosity satisfaction tasks. You can make one your self though.


----------



## IaVoR

My first 303 had lens rattle and I tried to replicate the issue like guy in the video but it didnt happen... maybe some mice rattle more than others and that makes a difference mine didnt.


----------



## Brightmist

I wonder if it's the side PCB that's making the rattling sound people complain about, that thing's pretty loose.


----------



## rpalmer92

It probably is just the PCB or one of the buttons or something. Regardless, the thing is godly and works fine - wobble or not. Look what GeT_RiGhT and Shroud can do with it...


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> I wonder if it's the side PCB that's making the rattling sound people complain about, that thing's pretty loose.


Well if it's just noise then my side buttons make noise but no sensor wobble


----------



## Brightmist

You can put your fingers on the buttons to test for button noise and put a small screwdriver on lens to test for rattle too I guess.


----------



## ocdMoss

Lot: *1536*
Jitter: *(+)*

Just received a G303 from amazon, purchased during the $24.99 sale. The packaging got smashed during shipping - don't know if that contributes to the "rattling".

S/N: starts with 1536. I assume this is the lot number; manufactured 36th week of 2015 (The 36th week of 2015 begins on August 31st.) So probably produced in early September.

There is a *very light rattle* not too loose, independent of the mouse button and wheel (checked while buttons held down). It's possible the rattle maybe related to the wheel if there's a slightly loose gear or something as part of the mechanism. I can't run the Logitech software, so I'm using default settings out of the box. I don't know what the actual DPI settings are.

I covered the sensor area with a *post-it note*, and moderate shaking produced *jitter ~1-3 pixels on a 1080p screen* on the highest default DPI setting. Actually, I first "tested" in midair without covering - "yay, no jitter!" Then realized how silly I was.







At the lower DPI's, there was no jitter, it was only apparent at the highest default DPI setting, whether waving it around in midair or rapidly shaking on mouse surface (with the post-it note covering the sensor, of course).

The rest of the mouse I like a lot. The cord is more flexible than I'm use to, and the braid is fine (not coarse like some other braided cords). I use a light claw grip, and it seems okay for now. When the mouse first starts up, the LED lighting cycles through all the RGB colors, then settles on the Logitech cyan, the logo steady, the sides breathing. Very nice. When the computer goes to sleep, the LED lights do turn off. (Some mice leave the LED backlighting ON even when the computer is sleeping. How annoying!) The sensor does not light up while active, so I'm assuming it's a non-visible wavelength like infrared.

So best i can tell. Good mouse, however &#8230; *(+) lens jitter*, *lot 1536*. I hope it wasn't made worse by the shipping mishap.

Hopefully I can test the mouse out more fully later. Cheers.

--
Just did this post-it note test on my old $12.99 *Redragon M601* mouse, at the highest DPI 2000, and&#8230; _no jitter_. Hmm&#8230;


----------



## johnsamuels

There is zero chance of it being human error if the test is done right.


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsamuels*
> 
> There is zero chance of it being human error if the test is done right.


What? As already specified, there is always going to be human error factored in. You could do it with a robotic arm that has perfect starting>stopping speed but with the human arm you've got to consider the muscles returning to a relaxed state which can show as those little flick back phenomenons on the mspaint line.

Test doesn't work. Mouse is good.

One thing that could work is what ocdMoss did -- putting something for it to track on right on the sensor, hold both mouse and tracking material of choice as tight as hell (clamp them together) so that neither can move during the shaking, then shake both around whilst holding mouse 1 and see if it causes any movement on the mspaint. At least this way you are completely eliminating any human error or sliding on the pad or whatever and you are relying only on the loose sensor showing any movement.

Some dark tape over the sensor should do fine.


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by Zenith Phantasm
> 
> The sensor whipping is from then lens moving differently from the shell. If anything the effect would be much greater on the G502 (if it had the same issue) because there will be a greater speed difference between the shell and the lens.


Hi there.

I've bought a G303 and, sadly, I'm having the rattling Problem. And I can also confirm this weird Sensor behavior in the video.

More than that: I don't even need Paint to see this error. When I my move the cursor and than stop the movement, the cursor is wobbling shortly. Not everytime, but very often. I can even see this wobbling in my Crosshair in BF4 for example.

This behavior fits perfectly to the loose lens in my opinion. I'm getting a replacement.


----------



## johnsamuels

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> What? As already specified, there is always going to be human error factored in. You could do it with a robotic arm that has perfect starting>stopping speed but with the human arm you've got to consider the muscles returning to a relaxed state which can show as those little flick back phenomenons on the mspaint line.
> 
> Test doesn't work. Mouse is good.
> 
> One thing that could work is what ocdMoss did -- putting something for it to track on right on the sensor, hold both mouse and tracking material of choice as tight as hell (clamp them together) so that neither can move during the shaking, then shake both around whilst holding mouse 1 and see if it causes any movement on the mspaint. At least this way you are completely eliminating any human error or sliding on the pad or whatever and you are relying only on the loose sensor showing any movement.
> 
> Some dark tape over the sensor should do fine.


My mistake, I thought the only test people were relying on is the dark tape etc over the sensor hole, which is what I was referring to.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> To confirm it you'll need a robotic arm. Sadly these aren't readily available around for such curiosity satisfaction tasks. You can make one your self though.


I don't really understand why people around here always insist you need robotic things. All you really need is some kind of mechanical device that creates a consistent motion. In this case a releasable spring pulling the mouse along on some sort of track would work and could probably be made cheaply with a bit of wood some metal rods, a heavy spring, and maybe a pad to bring the mouse to an abrupt, but not bouncy stop. It would still cost a bit of money and some doing, but its not like you really need a robotic arm for it. If I had a large collection of mice and was really curious to do tests like this I might build some contraptions like that for trying to test things, but I only own like 3 mice and don't care enough to try to thoroughly test them.


----------



## Melan

That's why I said "*You can make one your self*".
What will it be doesn't matter as long as it removes human error from equation.

Edit: And as a matter of fact, robotic arm is a mechanical device. A stupidly expensive one too.


----------



## Agrippa619

Hi guys, just got the G303 after two consecutive G100s...I'm having a hard time adjusting. the shape is not TOO bad but I'm having a weird problem: Even at the same DPI, the G303 feels too quick. It's hard to explain...tracking works really well, but flicks and small adjustments are tough. After testing the G100s and g303 side by side, i think the problem is that somehow the 303 slides SUPER quickly...like it has almost no friction, and it makes it hard to do accurate flicks.

Has anyone encountered this problem? I'm using a steelseries QCK+ . Any ideas? Maybe I just need to get used to the mouse, but I do 10x times better when i switch to the g100s, it's tough..


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agrippa619*
> 
> Hi guys, just got the G303 after two consecutive G100s...I'm having a hard time adjusting. the shape is not TOO bad but I'm having a weird problem: Even at the same DPI, the G303 feels too quick. It's hard to explain...tracking works really well, but flicks and small adjustments are tough. After testing the G100s and g303 side by side, i think the problem is that somehow the 303 slides SUPER quickly...like it has almost no friction, and it makes it hard to do accurate flicks.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this problem? I'm using a steelseries QCK+ . Any ideas? Maybe I just need to get used to the mouse, but I do 10x times better when i switch to the g100s, it's tough..


If you do better,get a new G100s and stick to it. Or get a mousepad with more friction.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agrippa619*
> 
> Hi guys, just got the G303 after two consecutive G100s...I'm having a hard time adjusting. the shape is not TOO bad but I'm having a weird problem: Even at the same DPI, the G303 feels too quick. It's hard to explain...tracking works really well, but flicks and small adjustments are tough. After testing the G100s and g303 side by side, i think the problem is that somehow the 303 slides SUPER quickly...like it has almost no friction, and it makes it hard to do accurate flicks.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this problem? I'm using a steelseries QCK+ . Any ideas? Maybe I just need to get used to the mouse, but I do 10x times better when i switch to the g100s, it's tough..


P much what @hotwheels1997 said. You could also replace the mouse feet as well.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Qck and quick don't go along.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Qck and quick don't go along.


My QCK+ glides like a dream with all mice i've tested, including Razer, Zowie and the G303.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That's why I said "*You can make one your self*".
> What will it be doesn't matter as long as it removes human error from equation.
> 
> Edit: And as a matter of fact, robotic arm is a mechanical device. A stupidly expensive one too.


Well I mean "robotic" normally implies some type of electronic element to it. I was just saying you could do something purely mechanical and it would probably be cheaper and easier.


----------



## FerK

Any non-expensive mousepad for this mouse?

Regards


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FerK*
> 
> Any non-expensive mousepad for this mouse?
> 
> Regards


Supermat
Alsop Raindrop
Qck
Paper taped on desk
Desk


----------



## fxniqab

is it possible to cut off the sides on the g303?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

You could file them down


----------



## banjogood

if anyone is bothered by their braided cable i can confirm that cutting it with scissors is easy and isnt a problem for the mouse. it doesnt seem to do anything


----------



## bruzanHD

What is the default DPI setting or default steps. I would like to buy this but I won't install the drivers.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

400/800/1600/3200


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> What is the default DPI setting or default steps. I would like to buy this but I won't install the drivers.


It has onboard memory so just install drivers on a different machine, set your mouse up and you're golden.


----------



## navjack27

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agrippa619*
> 
> Hi guys, just got the G303 after two consecutive G100s...I'm having a hard time adjusting. the shape is not TOO bad but I'm having a weird problem: Even at the same DPI, the G303 feels too quick. It's hard to explain...tracking works really well, but flicks and small adjustments are tough. After testing the G100s and g303 side by side, i think the problem is that somehow the 303 slides SUPER quickly...like it has almost no friction, and it makes it hard to do accurate flicks.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this problem? I'm using a steelseries QCK+ . Any ideas? Maybe I just need to get used to the mouse, but I do 10x times better when i switch to the g100s, it's tough..


yeah its taken me a while to adjust to mine after using my roccat tyon for what feels like forever. i'm selling the tyon now that i'm totally set on this mouse being the best thing ever. accurate. my hand fits it well. the sensor is just perfect for me. not to slippery on my steelseries pad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> What is the default DPI setting or default steps. I would like to buy this but I won't install the drivers.


you want to install the drivers. after i did some testing with mine i found out that if i set it to use the computer profiles instead of onboard settings... i seem to have more consistent settings and mouse hz among other things. call me crazy but i mean, why NOT run stuff if its not taking up memory/cpu... thats why i have 16gb ram and a kick ass computer... and i care a TON about frametimes and making sure things are running perfectly.

edit: i see tons of talk about the shape of this mouse... 
fits me just fine


----------



## darkfirebg

Guys, any observations on how the mouse behaves in CS go on windows 10?
I just updated windows yesterday, and found out that without the "improve mouse precision" there is mouse acceleration, and with the "improve mouse precision" there is a slight negative accel..
I still prefer just a tiny bit of negative accel compared to the other options..


----------



## darkdragon96

So, what's the diffrence between the g302 and the g303?


----------



## Melan

G302 has AM010 sensor.
G303 has 3366 sensor.
That's pretty much it.


----------



## Aymanb

G303 much newer sensor, one of the best on the market. Braided cable, and more mousefeet on the bottom to prevent the mouse from wobbling on the sides like the g302 did.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Guys, any observations on how the mouse behaves in CS go on windows 10?
> I just updated windows yesterday, and found out that without the "improve mouse precision" there is mouse acceleration, and with the "improve mouse precision" there is a slight negative accel..
> I still prefer just a tiny bit of negative accel compared to the other options..


Doesnt 10 have unstable polling rate? Maybe try using m_rawinput 1


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> G303 much newer sensor, one of the best on the market. Braided cable, and more mousefeet on the bottom to prevent the mouse from wobbling on the sides like the g302 did.


New G302 models have the same base with mouse feet positions as G303.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkdragon96*
> 
> So, what's the diffrence between the g302 and the g303?


Better sensor
Higher PCS
More mouse skates on bottom (tho I hear reports that the G302 now has the same side skates)
More flexible braided cable


----------



## darkfirebg

Also g303 have more colors.. the g302 have only blue illumination, the g303 have 16million options..


----------



## Melan

16 million! That's a selling point.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Better sensor
> Higher PCS
> More mouse skates on bottom (tho I hear reports that the G302 now has the same side skates)
> More flexible braided cable


I thought the G303's cable is simply the G302 cable with a braid covering it.

It would be difficult to make a worse cable than the one on the G303.


----------



## qsxcv

g303's is slightly more flexible than g302's

g402's cable is even worse and is pretty much as bad as wmo's

g502's is the worst... feels like bending a piece of metal


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Better sensor
> Higher PCS
> More mouse skates on bottom (tho I hear reports that the G302 now has the same side skates)
> More flexible braided cable
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the G303's cable is simply the G302 cable with a braid covering it.
> 
> It would be difficult to make a worse cable than the one on the G303.
Click to expand...

Its a thinner version of the G302's cable with braiding over it.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its a thinner version of the G302's cable with braiding over it.


Random question... Could I buy a rubber cable from some other mouse to use with this?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its a thinner version of the G302's cable with braiding over it.


That's not what I read from people with the G302 and G303.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Random question... Could I buy a rubber cable from some other mouse to use with this?


As long as you switch the wires around at the connector - yes.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> As long as you switch the wires around at the connector - yes.


link?


----------



## Pirx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its a thinner version of the G302's cable with braiding over it.


thinner? i have a g303, how did they make the g302's cable even thicker?









the cable shouldn't be felt. zowie and deathadder cables are light and flexible.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> link?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1138037/fixing-the-mx518-cable-problem/30#post_24377854


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its a thinner version of the G302's cable with braiding over it.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what I read from people with the G302 and G303.
Click to expand...

I have two G302s and a G303.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I have two G302s and a G303.


I think I saw a post around here where some measured the debraided cable of the G303 and the G302 cable. The conclusion was that the cable are the same.


----------



## qsxcv

i debraided part of my g303's cable and it was a tiny bit thinner than my g302's


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Its the same rubber material but thinner I think


----------



## dmbr

Bought a set of Hotline g303 skates (competition version, .28mm)

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/121794596319

I prefer the glide--using Func 1030XL. The difference is subtle, a little less "slippery".

Had to redo surface calibration, so don't buy if you don't want to calibrate for whatever reason.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> New G302 models have the same base with mouse feet positions as G303.


the g303 has mouse feet to the sides of the sensor to eliminate wobble.


----------



## gene-z

Anyone want my G303? I used it for 2 days, I'll ship it for $35 anywhere in the US.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Which reminds me... 
Ulnar nerve :/


----------



## Pirx

i still can't grip that thing properly. hope i can mold it into a better shape by sticking some sugru onto the shell. this or use the sensor for a frankenmouse. hope more mice would use their spring-tensioned buttons though.


----------



## fartman

Best mouse ive ever had since the razer abyssus(sensor not so good but light), so light and responsive pairing the best sensor with the Zowie G-SR.

My KPM is collecting dust now


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Out of all the small and predominantly preference cons about this mouse, the weight being toward the rear is what annoyed me the most. Had it been balanced or even front heavy I would have given the 303 much longer trial period. Hardly worth keeping a za13 for, but interestingly it was nearly perfect mid balance.


----------



## Poodle

I went yesterday to local store which had G303's. I bought one, went back to home, opended the box and tested for rattle. It did. Then I put it back to box and tested if I could hear the rattle when shaking the box mouse inside. I could hear it. I went back to store I shook all 8 on store shelf. They all had that same rattling sound.

Back to home and doing some testing. Shape was funny. Thumb side gets slippery if I dont grip it far enough. I played 5 hours straight without a pause. More I played more I got used to mouse. Shape isnt a problem. Sensor is fine. Lens doesnt affect cursor.

Then I went back to Zowie EC2 and it didnt feel so nice anymore. G303 is so "fluid" and easy to move. Shape is excellent for me but it took some time getting used to. But I have a small hand 17.5cm so this mouse isnt for everyone.

Also I think this mouse is great for high sensitivity players. For competitive gaming atm I wouldnt pick this tho. Its too "wild" somehow compared to Rival which is so solid and steady.


----------



## IaVoR

Just like @Poodle I too find the sides slippery after a while... remember seeing a guy here he used guntape to fix his issue. So I ordered 3 strips and taped my mouse.
If every mouse manufacturer used those it would be great... I've used DA2013 and its side grips were terrible.


----------



## Maximillion

I might have to get some guntape just to have at the ready. Seems like it would remedy grip issues I have w/ several mice.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I might have to get some guntape just to have at the ready. Seems like it would remedy grip issues I have w/ several mice.


This mentioning of "GUN TAPE" what exactly is it and where can it be purchased from







?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> This mentioning of "GUN TAPE" what exactly is it and where can it be purchased from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


It's basically textured tape that people put on the grip of their firearms in order to make them less slippery and have a better grip on the firearm.


----------



## aayman_farzand

@IaVoR

Would you say the mouse is completely bearable after using that?

I don't want to invest any further in this mouse since I'll switch from it as soon as Logitech or any other company releases a 3366 mouse. Keeping tabs on the ScreamOne but not getting it if it uses 3310.


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> This mentioning of "GUN TAPE" what exactly is it and where can it be purchased from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


I think you need to buy from ebay right?

This is it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT-5000-Grip-Tape-3-Strips-for-guns-cell-phones-tools-anything-/181834991854?hash=item2a5635c8ee:g:m1sAAOSwjVVVz2ul


----------



## Melan

If it doesn't come with glock I'll be very disappointed.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I think you need to buy from ebay right?
> 
> This is it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT-5000-Grip-Tape-3-Strips-for-guns-cell-phones-tools-anything-/181834991854?hash=item2a5635c8ee:g:m1sAAOSwjVVVz2ul


Thank you for the link BUT it is banned from being sold here in my Convict settlement known as Australia.

You see what it's like living here, a lot of gear is banned from ever being sold and distributed here, not lying or creating fear here only stating true FACTS.


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> This mentioning of "GUN TAPE" what exactly is it and where can it be purchased from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


I bought it directly from here Link

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> @IaVoR
> 
> Would you say the mouse is completely bearable after using that?
> 
> I don't want to invest any further in this mouse since I'll switch from it as soon as Logitech or any other company releases a 3366 mouse. Keeping tabs on the ScreamOne but not getting it if it uses 3310.


Upon purchasing this mouse I thought it would be very uncomfortable, but to my surprise and grip it wasn't. The only gripe I had was after a while sides would become slippery and Yes I like the modification its very grippy








Some people like it... some people hate it and still use it for the sensor.


----------



## helioNz4R

Hi, i just got the mouse but was concerned about the whole loose lens thing, my feedback: when i shake it, i hear the lens moving. When making quick movements i haven't noticed any "cursor wobble" at the end.

I tried paint and moving the mouse rapidly, stop, and go again a few times like the guy in the video. In the first try i did notice that cursor was going the opposite direction when i stopped the mouse. Although on the next try when i tried to control my hand and mouse a little bit more, nothing like this occured.

This mouse is weird in shape, i did notice my hand going to it's original position after every move resulting in the cursor going backwards/u turning after rapidly drawing a straight line.

My verdict is - it may be an annoying sound but i doubt it affects performance in the slightest. That's why i think Logitech has taken no actions so far.

I am using the mouse for about 10 minutes though so if i change my mind i will be back.


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helioNz4R*
> 
> Hi, i just got the mouse but was concerned about the whole loose lens thing, my feedback: when i shake it, i hear the lens moving. When making quick movements i haven't noticed any "cursor wobble" at the end.
> 
> I tried paint and moving the mouse rapidly, stop, and go again a few times like the guy in the video. In the first try i did notice that cursor was going the opposite direction when i stopped the mouse. Although on the next try when i tried to control my hand and mouse a little bit more, nothing like this occured.
> 
> This mouse is weird in shape, i did notice my hand going to it's original position after every move resulting in the cursor going backwards/u turning after rapidly drawing a straight line.
> 
> My verdict is - it may be an annoying sound but i doubt it affects performance in the slightest. That's why i think Logitech has taken no actions so far.
> 
> I am using the mouse for about 10 minutes though so if i change my mind i will be back.


well the issue affects performance for a lot of people obviously. I also have the rattle but the cursor behaves as expected.


----------



## micehunter

Aside from the weird shape, what are the known issues about this mouse?. I'm really considering to buy this or the new zowie benq za11. Or the g502. I have ~18cm hands. Claw grip. I Mainly play csgo.


----------



## jtl999

Sensor rattle
Surface tuning set to other than default can cause malfunctions prematurely at high speeds.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micehunter*
> 
> Aside from the weird shape, what are the known issues about this mouse?. I'm really considering to buy this or the new zowie benq za11. Or the g502. I have ~18cm hands. Claw grip. I Mainly play csgo.


The cable is on the crappier side. (thick, heavy, braided)


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Sensor rattle
> Surface tuning set to other than default can cause malfunctions prematurely at high speeds.


surface tuning bug was fixed already


----------



## helioNz4R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The cable is on the crappier side. (thick, heavy, braided)


Wait, wat... G303's cable is great. way better than the one in Kone Pure Optical - it was always bending and it was hard to adjust it. G303 - it doesn't bend, its flexible... it's great with a mouse bungee.

Also - for the "sensor rattle" - the sensor itself is making no noise, it's the lens. All the people i've seen reporting this are saying the sensor is making this U-turn at the end of a fast movement... it's your hand... this mouse has a weird shape to it, it's very light and small, even the slightest movement at the very end will result in the U-turn at the end... just look at this:


----------



## jtl999

That is correct.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helioNz4R*
> 
> Wait, wat... G303's cable is great. way better than the one in Kone Pure Optical - it was always bending and it was hard to adjust it. G303 - it doesn't bend, its flexible... it's great with a mouse bungee.
> 
> Also - for the "sensor rattle" - the sensor itself is making no noise, it's the lens. All the people i've seen reporting this are saying the sensor is making this U-turn at the end of a fast movement... it's your hand... this mouse has a weird shape to it, it's very light and small, even the slightest movement at the very end will result in the U-turn at the end... just look at this:


Did exactly that for me before I cut the square plastic bit down to fit into the G100S shell. The U-turn wasn't noticeable ingame but I had the exact same thing in paint, with my Win cursor and in PS. Because the square piece doesn't have the large sides anymore it doesn't rattle and doesn't produce that U-turn anymore.

.......

When I placed it back into the G303 because I wasn't as satisfied as I thought it just spazzed around at a frequency like the Rival has sometimes for some people. Not sure if I damaged something or if there was something with newer firmware that has messed something up. Probably the first. Oh well.


----------



## fartman

if you swipe fast enough after the u turn the cursor wobbles, i rma'd my mice after that.


----------



## helioNz4R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fartman*
> 
> if you swipe fast enough after the u turn the cursor wobbles, i rma'd my mice after that.


Mine doesn't.


----------



## ncck

Hey guys I think I'm going to pull the trigger and order one of these since I can't wait for the FM just to try it out. You know the shape really is alien to me but the more I look at it the more I understand how it could work for my claw grip.

Basically the rear looks wide to pull back your grip and then the sides go inward for a claw grip. My hand seemds big enough to get around that curve which I can see smaller hands having trouble with. Match it with supposedly the best sensor and better mouse clicks I may end up liking it (if not I can return it) but I've gotten to the point where I think my FK1 from zowie is literally just holding me back.


----------



## micehunter

Do any of you guys know the width of that skinny rear?. I'm curious to know so that I can somehow compare it to other mice. And does the rattle affect its performance when you're playing fps or any other games?.. I'm torn between this or the zowie za12. I play dota2 occasionally.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micehunter*
> 
> Do any of you guys know the width of that skinny rear?. I'm curious to know so that I can somehow compare it to other mice. And does the rattle affect its performance when you're playing fps or any other games?.. I'm torn between this or the zowie za12. I play dota2 occasionally.


Where abouts do you want me to measure it from?


----------



## banjogood

just got my g100s. even with the weight this thing >>>> g303. ill def try to put the g303s 3366 in it.


----------



## ncck

What's this mouses default out of box (no software?)

Is it 400 dpi @ 1000hz with default surface tuning? If yes that means I could use it as a plugNplay without ever getting the drivers (unless I wanted to turn off the lights)


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> What's this mouses default out of box (no software?)
> 
> Is it 400 dpi @ 1000hz with default surface tuning? If yes that means I could use it as a plugNplay without ever getting the drivers (unless I wanted to turn off the lights)


https://i.imgur.com/SlYonmO.png

as for surface tuning i cant restore to default but theres an option called 'Factory Default' so I assume thats the one by default.


----------



## bruzanHD

It is definilety pllug and play. It cycles 400, 800, 1600, and 3200 dpi. It is 1000hz at default and the light just breathes teal. Oh and the Lift off distance is excellent for the QcK+.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> What's this mouses default out of box (no software?)
> 
> Is it 400 dpi @ 1000hz with default surface tuning? If yes that means I could use it as a plugNplay without ever getting the drivers (unless I wanted to turn off the lights)


----------



## sprite08

I had g303 , G502 , KPM and ZA13 . Perform on KPM is great , ZA is good , it feels rough (raw) and great for snipers . 3366 is just hype. Sorry for my bad english


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I dont think 3366 is hype


----------



## ncck

Thanks for info everyone I got the mouse yesterday

I am literally two times better than I was the day before. I still may make a mousepad and sensitivity adjustments in the future but as of right now using this g303 it blows the fk1 out of the water, zowie cannot compete with this thing. Sure the shape could be a bit better but FK1 stands no chance against a g303 for claw users.. literally bar none

For logitech, I think they should of not made the lights on the rear sides and instead had it be the same grip as where your pointer/index/pinky make contact. I also would of slightly raised the butt and maybe make it wider so it could make better palm contact, I can't see anyone using this mouse palm.. but if they can do it without wrist pain power to em. I haven't had any real wrist pain yet but this thing isn't comfortable for browsing.. just for straight gaming. 3366 is no way hype, after using this sensor I cannot use another sensor. After using these mouse clicks I can't use any other mouse clicks. If logitech can make an optional driver (similar to g303) with better shape, no silly lights.. I think it would be the best claw product on the market. I also saw their g502 in-store yesterday and just scratched my head, it's a palm mouse with like 5000 buttons all over it.. why? Why not just have a separate MMO mouse and not screw over people who want to fps/palm

Also I wish the silly lights were off by default... Anyway for people who literally claw the g303 shape isn't great, but the performance of the mouse itself is worth the usage.. I feel I've reached my ascension to pure bliss and nirvana (I've also turned alien to hold this thing)


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Thanks for info everyone I got the mouse yesterday
> 
> I am literally two times better than I was the day before. I still may make a mousepad and sensitivity adjustments in the future but as of right now using this g303 it blows the fk1 out of the water, zowie cannot compete with this thing. Sure the shape could be a bit better but FK1 stands no chance against a g303 for claw users.. literally bar none
> 
> For logitech, I think they should of not made the lights on the rear sides and instead had it be the same grip as where your pointer/index/pinky make contact. I also would of slightly raised the butt and maybe make it wider so it could make better palm contact, I can't see anyone using this mouse palm.. but if they can do it without wrist pain power to em. I haven't had any real wrist pain yet but this thing isn't comfortable for browsing.. just for straight gaming. 3366 is no way hype, after using this sensor I cannot use another sensor. After using these mouse clicks I can't use any other mouse clicks. If logitech can make an optional driver (similar to g303) with better shape, no silly lights.. I think it would be the best claw product on the market. I also saw their g502 in-store yesterday and just scratched my head, it's a palm mouse with like 5000 buttons all over it.. why? Why not just have a separate MMO mouse and not screw over people who want to fps/palm
> 
> Also I wish the silly lights were off by default... Anyway for people who literally claw the g303 shape isn't great, but the performance of the mouse itself is worth the usage.. I feel I've reached my ascension to pure bliss and nirvana (I've also turned alien to hold this thing)


I had the same feeling, but the wrist pain started to come in, and I just gave up on it. I am going to see if I am able to transplant the PCB into my FK1.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Day 1: OMG THIS MOUSE IS BEST!
Day 90: rip hand








Day 365: Hi Dr. Freeman, its me again. Yes I would like to have the surgery to transpose my ulnar nerve around my wrist and elbow.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Day 1: OMG THIS MOUSE IS BEST!
> Day 90: rip hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 365: Hi Dr. Freeman, its me again. Yes I would like to have the surgery to transpose my ulnar nerve around my wrist and elbow.


Never has more truth been spoken. What are you using daily atm?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Day 1: OMG THIS MOUSE IS BEST!
> Day 90: rip hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 365: Hi Dr. Freeman, its me again. Yes I would like to have the surgery to transpose my ulnar nerve around my wrist and elbow.


lol damn


----------



## Melan

And yet here I am at day 365: No physical damage from prolonged usage.


----------



## TriviumKM

I know people who have had ulnar nerve surgery and it came from years and years of either heavy weight lifting, or heavy work load moving / lifting etc. The ulnar nerve isn't something that gets impingement from using a mouse; it takes much more to entrap or damage it.

I'm sure using a mouse you found uncomfortable didn't help you none, and probably hurt your hand and wrist to use, but it sure isn't what caused you to have ulnar nerve surgery in the first place. That was an issue you already had prior that was possibly made worse from constantly using a mouse that hurt you.

Hope your surgery goes well though. Have you tried nerve flossing and myofascial release to loosen up the area surrounding the nerve to see if you can deal with your impingement that way?


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Day 1: OMG THIS MOUSE IS BEST!
> Day 90: rip hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 365: Hi Dr. Freeman, its me again. Yes I would like to have the surgery to transpose my ulnar nerve around my wrist and elbow.


suck it up nancy


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Day 1: OMG THIS MOUSE IS BEST!
> Day 90: rip hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 365: Hi Dr. Freeman, its me again. Yes I would like to have the surgery to transpose my ulnar nerve around my wrist and elbow.
> 
> 
> 
> suck it up nancy
Click to expand...

Damn the OCN tough guys are out in force today







.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> I know people who have had ulnar nerve surgery and it came from years and years of either heavy weight lifting, or heavy work load moving / lifting etc. The ulnar nerve isn't something that gets impingement from using a mouse; it takes much more to entrap or damage it.
> 
> I'm sure using a mouse you found uncomfortable didn't help you none, and probably hurt your hand and wrist to use, but it sure isn't what caused you to have ulnar nerve surgery in the first place. That was an issue you already had prior that was possibly made worse from constantly using a mouse that hurt you.
> 
> Hope your surgery goes well though. Have you tried nerve flossing and myofascial release to loosen up the area surrounding the nerve to see if you can deal with your impingement that way?


No I havent but I'll talk to my doctor about it but he thinks surgery may be the best options because my hand is already showing signs of muscle wasting.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> No I havent but I'll talk to my doctor about it but he thinks surgery may be the best options because my hand is already showing signs of muscle wasting.


Ah ok, well good luck on your surgery if you happen to go that route.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> No I havent but I'll talk to my doctor about it but he thinks surgery may be the best options because my hand is already showing signs of muscle wasting.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok, well good luck on your surgery if you happen to go that route.
Click to expand...

Its a fairly simple procedure. I dont even need to be put out for it. The point is to get the nerve back to the muscle in time for reinnervation to occur and I should get all my hand function back.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Day 1: OMG THIS MOUSE IS BEST!
> Day 90: rip hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 365: Hi Dr. Freeman, its me again. Yes I would like to have the surgery to transpose my ulnar nerve around my wrist and elbow.
> 
> 
> 
> Never has more truth been spoken. What are you using daily atm?
Click to expand...

I didnt see this post until I checked my email. Xornet 2 atm. The tracking is nowhere near as good as the G303. Only good for claw grip imo. Too wide for fingertip. Cable is weird too.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I didnt see this post until I checked my email. Xornet 2 atm. The tracking is nowhere near as good as the G303. Only good for claw grip imo. Too wide for fingertip. Cable is weird too.


And here I was thinking you might be happy with your purchase.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Yea it was good with v1.00 firmware then went all downhill. Unfortunately there is no flasher for v1.00
I also dislike the fact the sensor isn't centered. I don't love the mouse but its the only other mouse I can use atm that doesn't drive me nuts


----------



## Soo8

#G303 #Rehabilitation #Only2days

The sensor is nice though.


----------



## Bashslash

Ur serious...


----------



## Soo8

And at first I though people were kind of joking about the shape.
How bad could it be, right? Boy I was stupid...
It only took me 2 days of using the g303 to experience the same pain as when I was using a FK2 for a year and a half. And mind you, the FK is too small for me.

WMO best pain medicine
M
O


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> And at first I though people were kind of joking about the shape.
> How bad could it be, right? Boy I was stupid...
> It only took me 2 days of using the g303 to experience the same pain as when I was using a FK2 for a year and a half. And mind you, the FK is too small for me.
> 
> WMO best pain medicine
> M
> O


Imagine using that shape for a year (I had the G302 prior to the G303)


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Imagine using *an uncomfortable for me shape* for a year *because I ignored the first rule when buying a mouse.* (I had the G302 prior to the G303)


FTFY

Edit: Forgot to add "and then complaining about how badly things went south because of it."


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

but 3366. Even tho I like the Xornet 2 shape more my aim is nowhere near the level that I had with G303. Even when I could barely hold it I still could aim better with the G303 simply because its consistent no matter how I move it (unless I lift it)


----------



## Melan

Well, you still have left hand. How about you use that now "because 3366" and see where it gets you... oh wait.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I'll just wait until their next 3366 mouse in a less stupid shell


----------



## Bashslash

Whats the difference between the g302 and g303, i was considering it because it was cheaper, but how much of a difference is there?


----------



## Melan

G302 has AM010 sensor with speed limit somewhere in the 3m/s range and fat non-braided cord.
G303 has 3366 sensor with pretty much unreachable speed limit in realistic scenarios (will still depend on the surface) and braided cord which is still pretty meh compared to competitors.
Mouse feet in 302 shouldn't be an issue anymore since new batches use same base as 303.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

3366 feels less "skippy" when you move it moderately fast (>0.5m/s <1m/s)
It just has a smoother, less jittery feel to it


----------



## Melan

You can set AM010 to ~800 cpi and it will be the same.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You can set AM010 to ~800 cpi and it will be the same.


idk... having used g100s, g302, and g402, i feel the same way as zenith about am010 vs 3366


----------



## Melan

Well, w/e. When I was playing around with G402, 400 step felt uncomfortable while 800 was spot on the same as G303 at 400.

I'm trying out how new W10 enterprise version works with my mouse right now... and no 5000hz polling surprises so far.


----------



## fartman

3310 KPM implementation feels a tad less responsive than 3366 from my anectdotal observations
the weight/size is also lighter/smaller for my claw/finger grip which allows nice flicks and better vertical movement for recoil compensation


----------



## kackbratze

Hey, I've got 3 questions:

1) I want to remove the mouse feet because I want to fix the rattling lense. I assume I need new mouse feet afterwards?! Have looked on ebay and read good reviews of the "Hotline Games" mouse feet. Anyone have these? Which should I take? Performance/Competition? 0.26mm/0.6mm?

2) The mouse doesn't save my RGB configuration... anyone else had this problem and know how to fix this?

3) I looked under the mouse with a flashlight and saw that the lens is really dirty... anyone ever cleaned his mouselens? I was thinking about cleaning it with a Q-Tip... bad idea?









Thanks in advance!


----------



## Melan

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ

Buy whichever. Go with 0.6mm.


----------



## chr1spe

So when am I supposed to start having hand cramps? I've been using the g303 a ton since I got it christmas eve and so far I've been having less hand pain than the last time I switched mice. I was worried about the shape a tiny bit, but so far I love it. The bottom sloping in was a bit strange at first, but I actually like it because it makes my grip stay more stable when lifting the mouse. Some mice feel like I have to grip them too hard when lifting or my fingers shift a tiny bit, but this eliminates that problem entirely.


----------



## Melan

You're not supposed to have hand cramps.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You're not supposed to have hand cramps.


I was mostly kidding









Edit: Seriously though this is the first time I think I haven't gotten slight hand cramps when switching mice. Usually they go away in a couple days to a week when I get used to the mouse though.


----------



## Melan

Cramps come from deathgripping. If you're not using any force to hold mouse secure - no cramps. That's why I can't use deathadder, it just keeps slipping out when I try to lift it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Cramps come from deathgripping. If you're not using any force to hold mouse secure - no cramps. That's why I can't use deathadder, it just keeps slipping out when I try to lift it.


Shape can cause discomfort too.

The shape of mouse 2 on the EC causes me discomfort after playing for awhile. It wasn't as bad when using the EC1. The discomfort is nowhere near the G302/3 level, it's just slightly annoying after a few hours.

Zowie could improve the shape and the buttons of the EC .


----------



## Melan

Discomfort isn't painful. Cramps are. Either way no one forces anybody to use something that isn't comfortable, neither does that make any particular mouse bad.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

What about the sharp edges that dig into the hand?


----------



## Melan

They aren't sharp unless you have a defective shell.

Edit: or you're just pushing on purpose which is silly and you shoud pick something else.


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Discomfort isn't painful. Cramps are. Either way no one forces anybody to use something that isn't comfortable, neither does that make any particular mouse bad.


Isn't that a bit like saying, "Stubbing your toe doesn't hurt, it's the nerves firing in your feet that causes the pain.


----------



## Melan

No, being an idiot does. If you're hurting your self on purpose then well... You're an idiot.

Edit: read "stubbing" as "stabbing" derp. Either way previous statement stays.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I originally thought my discomfort was from DOMS so I ignored it because no pain no gain.


----------



## Melan

Pain is metaphorical. There's no actual pain involved.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Pain is only a sensation. The most important part is actual damage. You can have pain and no damagr and vice versa. You can also learn to ignore pain so it does not affect performance. Pain is entirely psychological.


----------



## Melan

Pain comes from damage. It's a brains way of telling "stop doing what you're doing". You can ignore it if you know what you're doing (which is not the case) or drop the activity.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Pain is from stimulation of pain receptors. Its like eating hot sauce. You feel the heat but obv there's nothing high temperature in your mouth.


----------



## Melan

Stimulation by potentially damaging stimuli... Which is pretty much damage. So yes, pain comes from damage.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> And at first I though people were kind of joking about the shape.
> How bad could it be, right? Boy I was stupid...
> It only took me 2 days of using the g303 to experience the same pain as when I was using a FK2 for a year and a half. And mind you, the FK is too small for me.
> 
> WMO best pain medicine
> M
> O


Seems like an issue with you and less with the mouse.


----------



## Melan

I finally got around to dremel down those borders around mouse feet. Looks damn ugly but now those 0.5mm round hyperglides will fit and plastic wont scratch anything. I still will have to sand down entire bottom just to make it look a bit better.


----------



## helioNz4R

Holly molly, people!

If you don't like the shape or it's causing you pain or injuring your hand just return it. Don't keep using the mouse. That goes for EVERY mice on the market. I use my G303 and it fits my hand perfectly i feel no discomfort.

But like having to use hand orthosis like the guy in the previous posts... damn. You should have stopped using the mouse right after you felt the first symptoms.

Also - this mice is not worth ruining it to try and mod it to your taste! Just get a different one. It's not like 3366 is a must have, get an S3988 or 3310 mice that fits you well and be done with it. Also 3366 won't be Logitech exclusive forever.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Im still waiting on public 3366 mouse.


----------



## Venrar

We complain because if they made the sides less jarring, the mouse would literally be perfect. Hopefully by complaining, there is eventual improvement.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> We complain because if they made the sides less jarring, the mouse would literally be perfect. Hopefully by complaining, there is eventual improvement.


^


----------



## helioNz4R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> We complain because if they made the sides less jarring, the mouse would literally be perfect. Hopefully by complaining, there is eventual improvement.


I'm afraid it doesn't work like this man. For me the shape is perfect. What you must understand is that if they made the mouse the way you would like, there would be people complaining too. What improvement? You are literally saying that if the mouse doesn't have the shape that you want is not perfect and should be tweaked to your likings. They just need to make a new mouse with a shape that suits people like you, and they're most likely on it as we speak.

Leave g303 for people who like it and wait for g404 or w/e.

This mouse is clearly for people with small hands. I would say it's me most comfortable mice i have used to date. My thumb sits on the shell perfectly due to the V shape cut.

So don't say that they messed up with the shape, cause they didn't. It's just less universal. Some people will love it, some will hate it.

I think it's all about the sensor, you guys want it so bad that you would go through a world of pain. Chill out. Use the mouse you are most comfortable with, don't force yourself into using something you don't personally like,complaining won't change anything.

You have to start thinking about mice like you do about shoes. Not every size and shape is good for everyone.

Trust me having the 3366 sensor over 3110/S3988 won't change anything.


----------



## Venrar

Would you not use the mouse anymore if they made the sides less sharp?


----------



## Venrar

woops


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helioNz4R*
> 
> I'm afraid it doesn't work like this man. For me the shape is perfect. What you must understand is that if they made the mouse the way you would like, there would be people complaining too. What improvement? You are literally saying that if the mouse doesn't have the shape that you want is not perfect and should be tweaked to your likings. They just need to make a new mouse with a shape that suits people like you, and they're most likely on it as we speak.
> 
> Leave g303 for people who like it and wait for g404 or w/e.
> 
> This mouse is clearly for people with small hands. I would say it's me most comfortable mice i have used to date. My thumb sits on the shell perfectly due to the V shape cut.
> 
> So don't say that they messed up with the shape, cause they didn't. It's just less universal. Some people will love it, some will hate it.
> 
> I think it's all about the sensor, you guys want it so bad that you would go through a world of pain. Chill out. Use the mouse you are most comfortable with, don't force yourself into using something you don't personally like,complaining won't change anything.
> 
> You have to start thinking about mice like you do about shoes. Not every size and shape is good for everyone.
> 
> Trust me having the 3366 sensor over 3110/S3988 won't change anything.


Yeah guys, stop voicing your opinions on the internet. Gahd.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helioNz4R*
> 
> 3366 won't be Logitech exclusive forever.


it already isn't. now we wait


----------



## ncck

Just want to chime in cause it's been being spread around this thread a lot

The mouse isn't for small hands, my hand size is huge and the mouse is held with ease - you must hold it with a claw grip. Also this is the first mouse in a very long time that I can hold without gripping it extremely hard just to focus - sure it's not the most comfortable thing I've had in my hand but it's the easiest to use/hold with claw, and it causes no physical pain - minor discomfort at times sure but nothing that would make me stop using it after 6 hours of usage etc

I find the sensor placement and mouse buttons to be awesome too. My only complaints are the pointless LEDs, the material change where the side LEDs are, and the mwheel click inward can be difficult because sometimes it will scroll instead of click since it's so sensitive to scrolling.

If they can make a similar shape but only improve it comfort wise I'd def upgrade to it - also they can toss out these dumb leds and then I could use it totally driverless from the start (while leaving the driver optional for people who want to use different dpi values and what not)... Lets see if any company can get the same sensor and implement it as well as logitech has.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 is already plug and play lol.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Oh god that one Reddit guide stating that "has drivers" is a negative thing.

Ignoring the fact that it's only a disadvantage when the mouse has no onboard memory and has to be used with drivers active for certain things to work.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> it already isn't. now we wait


Wait, when did that happen? I remember a while back in the unspecific mouse thread someone spotted a 3336 that seemed like a might be a nerfed 3366, was it confirmed elsewhere to be the public 3366?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Wait, when did that happen? I remember a while back in the unspecific mouse thread someone spotted a 3336 that seemed like a might be a nerfed 3366, was it confirmed elsewhere to be the public 3366?


3360,3330. Next year(2016).

No point in buying mice right now, unless you like 3310 *THAT MUCH.*


----------



## a_ak57

Two of them? What's the difference, or do we just know that both of those are coming and it's assumed one of them is 3366?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Two of them? What's the difference, or do we just know that both of those are coming and it's assumed one of them is 3366?


High end, mid range etc etc


----------



## a_ak57

What exactly does that mean though? I would have thought that 3366 becoming public just means it's, well, becoming public under a new name, like AM010/3320. Are you saying that they're going to release an actual public 3366 then some worse modified version or something? My questions would probably be better served if I saw where all this was announced/discovered, got a link?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> What exactly does that mean though? I would have thought that 3366 becoming public just means it's, well, becoming public under a new name, like AM010/3320. Are you saying that they're going to release an actual public 3366 then some worse modified version or something? My questions would probably be better served if I saw where all this was announced/discovered, got a link?


Too early, not much to say really.

In any case the public 3366 = 3360


----------



## a_ak57

Ok then, thanks for the info and time to sit in the waiting area with everyone else.


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> We complain because if they made the sides less jarring, the mouse would literally be perfect. Hopefully by complaining, there is eventual improvement.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> ^


As if complaining on OC.net has influenced a company's decision...

Go email logitech, complain on their forums...


----------



## CorruptBE

Was using it the past 2 weeks again.

Switched back to Zowie FK2.

Handgasm, cramps fading.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> What exactly does that mean though? I would have thought that 3366 becoming public just means it's, well, becoming public under a new name, like AM010/3320. Are you saying that they're going to release an actual public 3366 then some worse modified version or something? My questions would probably be better served if I saw where all this was announced/discovered, got a link?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1401294/the-unspecific-mouse-thread/200_100#post_24664409
http://www.overclock.net/t/1582946/pmw3336-a-new-sensor/0_100

this was the first public mentioning of 3360. on this forum at least
http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/3100_100#post_24695841

afaik
3330 is the next public mid range sensor (i.e. replace 3310)
3336 is some weird exclusive variant for that chinese company

based on that image uaok first posted, it appears to share the same hardware as the 3366, but the specs indicate that it's slightly nerfed, similar to how framerate and cpi on 3310 are restricted.

3360 is the next public high end sensor (i.e. replace 3988). aka what we've all been waiting for. and it's not nerfed significantly, compared to the current 3366 specs in logitech's mice


----------



## fartman

For me the KPM causes issues with my wrists more because its harder to grip for some reason so i need extra force. I dont feel that with the G303


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3330 is the next public mid range sensor (i.e. replace 3310)
> 3336 is some weird exclusive variant for that chinese company


From the numbering scheme I get the impression if it ends in multiple of 10 with the last 2 digits it's a public version, if it doesn't, brand specific variant??

Just a guess on my end.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> From the numbering scheme I get the impression if it ends in multiple of 10 with the last 2 digits it's a public version, if it doesn't, brand specific variant??
> 
> Just a guess on my end.


Seems to be right, considering Razer's and Logi's mice. And lets not forget the "3059"


----------



## qsxcv

well 3988 is public right? that's the only exception of which i know


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fartman*
> 
> For me the KPM causes issues with my wrists more because its harder to grip for some reason so i need extra force. I dont feel that with the G303


How so?


----------



## wareya

the butt makes it hard to claw grip probably


----------



## fartman

yes sir, the butt is very wide for my taste


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fartman*
> 
> yes sir, the butt is very wide for my taste


Seeing this from a guy named "fartman" amused me much more than it should have.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm




----------



## Melan

Finished polishing base. Now waiting for MX-2 hyperglides.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## micehunter

What mouse pad works best with this mouse?.. I mainly play csgo BTW.


----------



## CrazyAngelDude

Received my 6th Logitech G303 mouse, this one with serial number 1524. Lens is causing a very slight rattle but not anywhere near as bad as serial number 1511 mice. Better than the previous two 1524 mice I had as well.

With the 1511s, involuntary leg movements during intense gaming moments would cause erratic pointer movement on the screen due to vibrations. Extremely annoying. The 1524 doesn't do this at all. I rarely notice erratic pointer behavior when flicking the mouse around.

I'm probably going to leave the 1524 lens as it is right now and replace the mouse feet with takasta's 0.6mm competition ones. I've had two sets of them waiting for a proper G303 for quite some time.

I'll most likely open up the 1511, tape the lens and apply takasta's feet to that one as well, then compare sensor performance.

The shape of this mouse is lovely. Only took a couple of months to get a decent one. Sensor performance is outstanding, better than anything I've ever used. Feels much more crisp than the 3310.

The difference between the 3310 and 3366 is extremely noticeable to me. Like going from an onboard sound card to a dedicated one. Everything is much more crisp.


----------



## thuNDa

@Zenith Phantasm

did you actually have a look into triggerpoints, before you get surgery and stuff?

the tense muscles irritate the nearby nerves too.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> @Zenith Phantasm
> 
> did you actually have a look into triggerpoints, before you get surgery and stuff?
> 
> the tense muscles irritate the nearby nerves too.


No its how my nerve goes around the bone. Its essentially "stuck".


----------



## sprite08

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyAngelDude*
> 
> Sensor performance is outstanding, better than anything I've ever used. Feels much more crisp than the 3310.
> 
> The difference between the 3310 and 3366 is extremely noticeable to me. Like going from an onboard sound card to a dedicated one. Everything is much more crisp.


mouse pad ? you used to g303.

I had g303 , G502 , KPM and ZA13 . ZA is good , it feels rough (raw) and great for snipers . 3366 in g303 have a little smoothing (accuracy on the 3366 is a little less clear enough to recognize). Sorry for my bad english


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sprite08*
> 
> 3366 in g303 have a little smoothing


Nice joke. You're funny


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyAngelDude*
> 
> The shape of this mouse is lovely. Only took a couple of months to get a decent one. Sensor performance is outstanding, better than anything I've ever used. Feels much more crisp than the 3310.


Do you have rather small hands? I'm using the G303 right now, and it's certainly good, but I'm sceptical, if it could cause problems with my rather big hands (~19 length) over time.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> Do you have rather small hands? I'm using the G303 right now, and it's certainly good, but I'm sceptical, if it could cause problems with my rather big hands (~19 length) over time.


my hands are huge and I have no issues with it, this is the first mouse I've used in years that I can use at an extremely low sensitivity and not have to hold it hard - I hold the mouse gentle and still maintain high muscle memory. It's great


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> my hands are huge and I have no issues with it, this is the first mouse I've used in years that I can use at an extremely low sensitivity and not have to hold it hard - I hold the mouse gentle and still maintain high muscle memory. It's great


I tried to use the G303 and it was a disaster because the harder I try to grip the mouse and hold it, the more it hurts the ligaments within my right hand.

Had held the atrocious little monster so tight, that I broke the right hand side casing (cracks developed) where my thumb presses against it. Trust me their casing isn't that strong and it can break when pressed hard.


----------



## Andy91

I cautiously bought one of these despite the sensor rattle issues reported here in the hope I'd get lucky or be one of the ones convinced it isn't real.

After a week I'm returning it and getting a G502 instead. There was definite wobble when stopping on desktop icons and stuff and it drove me insane. I tried to put it down to it just being light and me recoiling my hand, I tried to ignore it and I tried to just get used to it but I have no doubt it was real and it was annoying as ****.

I can't be ****ed going through 5 of them trying to find a decent one and I'm not keen on DIYing it so I'm just going to try something else. Shame. I really liked it otherwise.


----------



## aayman_farzand

All this is tempting me to sell my G303 for $100. Got lucky with a perfect one after my first RMA.


----------



## Melan

You will be lucky to sell it for 30$.


----------



## popups

Someone got a RMA and got to keep their used one. I didn't buy their extra mouse because they wanted retail price. I was curious enough to buy a G303 from a retailer, but I won't be fooled into buying from an individual for retail prices. I was planning on getting a 3366 on the cheap to attempt to put it in an IntelliMouse Optical shell.


----------



## aayman_farzand

I was joking forgot to include the 'lol'.

I do hope they show something new at CES, I would like to stick with their products but can't deal with this shape much longer.


----------



## ncck

I got my g303 at best buy and it's perfect, is there really a sensor issue on some of them? If I shake it fairly hard I can hear a tiny little rattle but it's nothing loud. Also I haven't noticed anything weird with my cursor movement. Even went in paint and did some quick swipes and they were all straight lines - sometimes they'd curve a little upward but that's just my hand movement


----------



## Andy91

Mine had a pretty loud rattle with very gentle shaking and I'm convinced the cursor wobble was real.

I'm pleased for you getting a seemingly good one, I think it's a great mouse otherwise. I just couldn't be bothered keep RMAing them trying to get a good one.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andy91*
> 
> Mine had a pretty loud rattle with very gentle shaking and I'm convinced the cursor wobble was real.
> 
> I'm pleased for you getting a seemingly good one, I think it's a great mouse otherwise. I just couldn't be bothered keep RMAing them trying to get a good one.


I'm sorry to hear it.. do you think there is some type of revision model that I maybe got? I just went in paint again and moved my crosshair back and fourth over and over then would stop it and it would stop perfectly

Haven't seen any issues in games either. Let me know if there's some type of number I can check for or something. Also did you notice this issue w/out the driver installed? I haven't installed the driver yet

@Others

I can see why you say it gets hard to grip - actually the mouse was really easy for me to grip at first then got harder - I have dry hands but I think eventually my hand oil or hand lotion that I had on lightly gets on the mouse and just makes it slightly more slippery than it was at first. I generally wipe it with a disinfecting wipe and then dry it with a rag and it gets the grip back.


----------



## Melan

Well, if you need a lotion for playing with this toy go right ahead.


----------



## wetgorilla

Is the rattle supposed to be really clear if you shake it? I only hear something when I shake and hold it very close to my ear.

Also you all got me scared that the design of this mouse would be absolutely horrible and cripple my hand. It isn't that bad, I've only had it for a couple of hours but I have a grip I actually like where the "edge" of the diamond is where I place the inner joint of my thumb so that my thumb is sort of bent around the corner.


----------



## Andy91

I could have heard mine from the other side of the room.


----------



## gunit2004

Wrapped my G303 in some gun grip tape as suggested earlier in this thread. Thanks to all the people that posted about that product!

Some pics:







Feels nice and secure in the hand now! Very easy material to work with.


----------



## dzivoder

Unpopular opinion here, but this mouse feels really nice and comfortable in my hands; maybe its the way i grip it, i have ring finger on RMB, middle finger on scroll, some variatian of claw grip - have bigger sized hand.

My problem besides sensor rattle which ill fix with tape (1515 series) is heavy non flexible cable. Do you guys have any recommendation that can I order on ebay and easily plug into the mouse?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dzivoder*
> 
> heavy non flexible cable. Do you guys have any recommendation that can I order on ebay and easily plug into the mouse?


Check out this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1585956/best-cables-g303


----------



## Andy91

Okay my G502 arrived today and I'm convinced now there was more wrong with my G303 than just the sensor wobble. The sensor in this thing feels totally different (and significantly better).


----------



## Nerish

Is there any better fingertip grip mouse than G303 on the EU market?


----------



## dzivoder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nerish*
> 
> Is there any better fingertip grip moue than G303 on the market?


if sensor/switches is benchmark of quality then there is no better. Only real competitor is G502 and it is way to heavy and big for fingertip grip.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andy91*
> 
> Okay my G502 arrived today and I'm convinced now there was more wrong with my G303 than just the sensor wobble. The sensor in this thing feels totally different (and significantly better).


Feels isn't a valid unit of measure. Difference between G303 and G502 is only weight, shape and sensor position. Sensor it self is exactly the same.


----------



## Andy91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Sensor it self is exactly the same.


Well precisely, but using them both they are definitely significantly different - hence I think the G303 I got is defective.

I don't care to be honest, I'm happy with what I have now and that's all that really matters.


----------



## Melan

Pretty sure your 303 is fine. If you're just more used to overall form of G502 then of course it will feel better.


----------



## Andy91

Perhaps you're right, but I've had quite a few mice and have always been fine with all of them. I don't think I'm all that sensitive about them to be honest but the 303 really felt weird.

As I said though I've found a mouse I'm happy with and that's the important thing. I hope others are enjoying their 303s as much as I'm enjoying my 502


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andy91*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Sensor it self is exactly the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Well precisely, but using them both they are definitely significantly different - hence I think the G303 I got is defective.
> 
> I don't care to be honest, I'm happy with what I have now and that's all that really matters.
Click to expand...

Shape and weight affects the feel of the sensor because you're exerting force on different parts of the mouse and those forces are redirected in different ways.


----------



## Nerish

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dzivoder*
> 
> if sensor/switches is benchmark of quality then there is no better. Only real competitor is G502 and it is way to heavy and big for fingertip grip.


What about a bit worse mouse than G303 but with better ergonomics? I play mostly in RTS games so i doubt that precision is so important as it is in FPS games.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nerish*
> 
> What about a bit worse mouse than G303 but with better ergonomics? I play mostly in RTS games so i doubt that precision is so important as it is in FPS games.


Uhhhmmmmmmm. WMO? FK1/2? ZA11/2/3? FM AMBI? Just shop around.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nerish*
> 
> What about a bit worse mouse than G303 but with better ergonomics? I play mostly in RTS games so i doubt that precision is so important as it is in FPS games.


I mean that is more or less something you have to decide for yourself. I personally find the g303 possibly the most comfortable mice I've ever used and certainly up towards the top and I claw or do something right between claw and fingertip grip. Some of the shapes people praise I find awful. For example the WMO which most people love was unusably uncomfortable to me because the shape seemed to want to touch my palm. Go try shapes at a store or if you can borrow a mouse from a friend for a few days. You can get an idea just picking it up for a bit, but you won't really know for sure how you like the shape until you have used it for a bit.


----------



## Andy91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nerish*
> 
> What about a bit worse mouse than G303 but with better ergonomics? I play mostly in RTS games so i doubt that precision is so important as it is in FPS games.


I fingertip G502. Try and get a go with one in a bricks and mortar shop to see if you like it.

It's a great mouse if the shape suits you.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Don't know when they fixed it but you can finally add those g303 feet to the shopping cart on Lologitech's site. Bought 2 sets.

I've already had the Takasta experience and I'd rather not have it again. Plus dat shipping time.

Lens makes no noise, but I want to stop being paranoid about it and it feels weird using something that I haven't popped open yet as my main.

So time to wait for the next Logitech mouse. I don't mind staying with the g303 for the long haul at this point though. My hand hasn't spontaneously combusted from using it yet.


----------



## Meevz0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I've already had the Takasta experience and I'd rather not have it again. Plus dat shipping time.


What kind of experience was that?
I just ordered Hotline Games Logitech G303 - Mouse Feet Competition 0.28 mm.


----------



## Melan

Just make sure you put them on top of old feet, otherwise you're in for surprise.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> What kind of experience was that?
> I just ordered Hotline Games Logitech G303 - Mouse Feet Competition 0.28 mm.


With the amount of turnover I assume he does, there's bound to be some error.

No need to worry about it on your end. It was just my personal experience.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> What kind of experience was that?
> I just ordered Hotline Games Logitech G303 - Mouse Feet Competition 0.28 mm.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> With the amount of turnover I assume he does, there's bound to be some error.
> 
> No need to worry about it on your end. It was just my personal experience.


Just to chime in: My order off him came through just fine to Germany, was even faster than expected.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My experience with takasta also went well. It arrived a couple days sooner than expected.


----------



## bruzanHD

Takasta has been great for me too. 1-week shippping to canada


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Takasta has been great for me too. 1-week shippping to canada


You're lucky due to living so close to him.

Here in my crap-dump known as Australia, all of his deliveries take on average about 4 to 5 weeks to get to my place.


----------



## piraap-p

has anyone experienced dpi scaling diferente than it should be?

Once i select 600 dpi, mouse give me 650-670 dpi


----------



## TriviumKM

On stock firmware my dpi steps were pin point accurate, when it updated to the latest my steps ended up like yours.

400 was now 420, 800 was 850, 1600 was really 1700 etc.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Takasta has been great for me too. 1-week shippping to canada


Where in Canada?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> You're lucky due to living so close to him.
> 
> Here in my crap-dump known as Australia, all of his deliveries take on average about 4 to 5 weeks to get to my place.


Takasta is shipping from Hong Kong, that isn't closer to Canada than it is to Australia, right?


----------



## Melan

Everything is closer to Hong Kong than Australia.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The feet arrived today.

This what some would call packaging waste. This was inside a bubble lined mailer. Yes, those are also bubble lined envelopes.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piraap-p*
> 
> has anyone experienced dpi scaling diferente than it should be?
> 
> Once i select 600 dpi, mouse give me 650-670 dpi


This happens on every mouse, some barely, others much more.

My Zowie FK2 is like 900+ dpi on "800".

Just fine tune ingame sens a bit.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> The feet arrived today.
> 
> This what some would call packaging waste. This was inside a bubble lined mailer. Yes, those are also bubble lined envelopes.


LOL

protip: cut off the part of the feet that cover the screws before applying the feet.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtl999*
> 
> Where in Canada?


Mississauga.


----------



## jtl999

On the west coast. Wonder what time I can expect.


----------



## falcon26

Can you set the color of the LED to a solid one, and not have it cycle?


----------



## Melan

Yes.


----------



## falcon26

Just got the mouse myself. Firs thing, I wish the sides were just a tiny bit less sharp. Just a tad. Second when my computer first starts and gets to the desktop the mouse goes threw a coloring cycle showing lots of colors before setting on my solid color of white, is their anyway to stop the mouse from doing that and just have the white color come up without seeing any of those fancy colors cycling? I know on other mice that is what happens, no color cycling just the color you selected.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Just got the mouse myself. Firs thing, I wish the sides were just a tiny bit less sharp. Just a tad. Second when my computer first starts and gets to the desktop the mouse goes threw a coloring cycle showing lots of colors before setting on my solid color of white, is their anyway to stop the mouse from doing that and just have the white color come up without seeing any of those fancy colors cycling? I know on other mice that is what happens, no color cycling just the color you selected.


You can disable it from the LGS settings


----------



## falcon26

I tried looking in their. I didn't see any option to do that. Maybe I'm just missing it.....


----------



## iceskeleton

You have to click the settings cog icon after opening LGS, then go to g303 tab. It is a toggleable option under the Device Startup Effect section


----------



## Manakuski

I got a quick question that has been troubling my mind for quite a while. I'm not sure, but i feel like i have mouse acceleration on, even though i've used MarkC registery properly and i have all the settings the way they should be. I've checked them many times, yet i still feel like i have some acceleration.

So the question is, should i use the markc registery fix at all when using this mouse? I'm running Win 7 x64 and 400dpi with sensitivity in windows @ 6/11 and enhanced pointer precision off + the markc fix. I'm also running a 144hz gaming monitor, Acer XB270H with 1080p resolution and Dual-DVI cable @ 144hz.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manakuski*
> 
> I got a quick question that has been troubling my mind for quite a while. I'm not sure, but i feel like i have mouse acceleration on, even though i've used MarkC registery properly and i have all the settings the way they should be. I've checked them many times, yet i still feel like i have some acceleration.
> 
> So the question is, should i use the markc registery fix at all when using this mouse? I'm running Win 7 x64 and 400dpi with sensitivity in windows @ 6/11 and enhanced pointer precision off + the markc fix. I'm also running a 144hz gaming monitor, Acer XB270H with 1080p resolution and Dual-DVI cable @ 144hz.


Play a game with raw input on to see if it feels the same way.


----------



## Manakuski

I usually always use raw input only in games like cs:go.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manakuski*
> 
> I usually always use raw input only in games like cs:go.


Playing a game without raw input, then playing a game with raw input, will feel different. The input methods are different.


----------



## qsxcv

*could feel different


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manakuski*
> 
> I got a quick question that has been troubling my mind for quite a while. I'm not sure, but i feel like i have mouse acceleration on, even though i've used MarkC registery properly and i have all the settings the way they should be. I've checked them many times, yet i still feel like i have some acceleration.
> 
> So the question is, should i use the markc registery fix at all when using this mouse? I'm running Win 7 x64 and 400dpi with sensitivity in windows @ 6/11 and enhanced pointer precision off + the markc fix. I'm also running a 144hz gaming monitor, Acer XB270H with 1080p resolution and Dual-DVI cable @ 144hz.


I have never used the 'marck c registry' fix.

On windows 7 I have my windows slider at 6/11 and enhanced pointer precision off

Then in-game I have raw input on and also make sure in console (if you're talking about csgo) you put in the command

m_mousespeed 0

This will disable in-game accel features which could be why you're feeling strange in-game. I have nooo accel what so ever in both windows and in-game. It's great mouse! Also have you thought about it potentially being your mouse pad having inconsistencies - like it swipes slower/faster in one spot due to wear or other reasons?


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manakuski*
> 
> I usually always use raw input only in games like cs:go.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Playing a game without raw input, then playing a game with raw input, will feel different. The input methods are different.


How do I make a game have raw input?

Also, does the 303 mouse have the legendary 3360 sensor the G502 has?


----------



## Melan

*cough* Legendary 3366 *cough* (It really isn't tho)

As for raw input, it depends on the game. In CSGO it's "m_rawinput" command in console. 0 or 1 are on or off obviously.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Melan do you also adjust your grip unconsciously when using the G303? While keeping things loose? I've been trying to figure out why it just..."works" for me.

The best I can come up with currently is that the grips I would adjust to on the OG Diamondback unconsciously are very similar to the ones I would change to on the G303.

Why is my hand keeping secrets from me. I feel betrayed.


----------



## Melan

When gaming? No, unless my hand gets sweaty.
Daily desktop use? Yes. Gotta readjust to press CPI switch (used as mouse 3)


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> *cough* Legendary 3366 *cough* (It really isn't tho)
> 
> As for raw input, it depends on the game. In CSGO it's "m_rawinput" command in console. 0 or 1 are on or off obviously.


so it is the same sensor as the g502? or not? you just confused me...


----------



## Melan

Yes, it is the same.


----------



## M1st

Got myself a g303 yesterday. My biggest gripe with it is \_/ shape at the front. Planning to 3d print alternative sides for it. And till i do, the mouse is shelved. And i'm back to Kana v2.


----------



## detto87

The Front is / \ shaped.


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Yes, it is the same.


I also own the Razer Naga Chroma that has 16k DPI... is that better than this sensor?


----------



## M1st

Are u sure we're talking about the same mouse?


----------



## detto87

Well on my G303 the front is / \ and the back is \ /


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> I also own the Razer Naga Chroma that has 16k DPI... is that better than this sensor?


Well, if you're looking for overninethousand dpi, I guess it's... fine? PMW3366 in 502 and 303 is still better overall.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Everything is closer to Hong Kong than Australia.


Because I'm bored right now:






So furthest part of Australia is closer than closest part of Canada.


----------



## Melan

I should have added sarcasm tag because it wasn't obvious enough already.


----------



## caenlen

that moment when you realize you need some new hobbies... because of that guy with the maps on the Apex forum at 6:20am... ***


----------



## M1st

I was talking about the sides.


----------



## 2shellbonus

So I just got this mouse.

No sensor rattle or wobble (1519LZ)
Sensor wise feels exactly how the 502 felt, except without the weight,

Shape wise feels good so far. Thumb directly below side buttons, pinky directly oposite it and the ring finger on the top bit which is shiny, just above where the padding is. The back of the mouse sits right between the pinky and ring finger pads (the bits where the fingers grow from)

Only negative so far is I wish this somehow had the low weight hyperscroll wheel. Man was that awesome for work.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> So I just got this mouse.
> 
> No sensor rattle or wobble (1519LZ)
> Sensor wise feels exactly how the 502 felt, except without the weight,
> 
> Shape wise feels good so far. Thumb directly below side buttons, pinky directly oposite it and the ring finger on the top bit which is shiny, just above where the padding is. The back of the mouse sits right between the pinky and ring finger pads (the bits where the fingers grow from)
> 
> Only negative so far is I wish this somehow had the low weight hyperscroll wheel. Man was that awesome for work.


Are you palm gripping this mouse? I thought you're a palm grip.....


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Are you palm gripping this mouse? I thought you're a palm grip.....


Heres my grip. Its similar on most mice




I thinks its close to claw. I also use this grip on the rival 300. Except the ring finger sits lower


----------



## Snakesoul

@2shellbonus, thanks for the pictures.. Yes you're a claw gripper from what i saw. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## falcon26

The G303 is really built for Fingertip / Claw style grip correct? So its kind of the replacement for the G9?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> The G303 is really built for Fingertip / Claw style grip correct? So its kind of the replacement for the G9?


The g9 is a lot different. Its fairly wide and doesnt feel like the 303 with any of the 3 grips

The bigger one - feels too palmy

The little one feels too wide for fingertip and not really clawy

The palm grip feels like the da for some reason for me


----------



## falcon26

I need a fingertip claw style for big hands. Is the G303 that?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> I need a fingertip claw style for big hands. Is the G303 that?


Its difficult to say. I would try one before I buy. Although I found the g303 uncomfortable in the store and the rival 300 super comfortable, at home the g303 has become more comfortable. And on top of that I aim better with it.

But the g303 will work ok with bigger hands and finger tip


----------



## falcon26

Did you like the Rival 300 or the G303 better?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Did you like the Rival 300 or the G303 better?


In teh store the rival 300 seemed more comfortable. But at home I had some small issues with the weight, so I went for a g303. I thought I wouldnt like it - but it turned out great


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Welp, I applied the double sided tape "fix" to a non rattling G303.

Oh well, it sure as hell won't rattle now.


----------



## falcon26

Yeah its been tough trying to replace my old G9 mouse. I loved that mouse. I'll try the G303


----------



## Venrar

Is the s/n for the g303 on the box? I no longer have the box.

Never mind found it.


----------



## ncck

Has anyone in this thread ever experienced issues with their g303 randomly shutting off while gaming?

I rma'd my first one and the second one is doing it now too which confirms it wasn't the cable. I switched my usb power setting from disabling the suspend feature and it still turned off..

So all I can think is either

a) there's not enough power going to the mouse at some point and it turns off? Can you push more volts towards the usb slots? or should I push like +0.005v to my cpu??

b) A change I did to my gpu is possibly causing a conflict because I think the usb hub and gpu share the same.. "interrupt line?" I did this a long time ago and it was stable - think it's causing an issue with this mouse now? Link: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=378044

I can't think of anything else. Every other mouse I test has no problem


----------



## Melan

USB could be failing or even worse, the mobo. Try pluging it around somewhere else.
Or, well, revert whatever changes you did and see if that's the cause.


----------



## TheGMT

Just installed one of those paracord cables in my G303. Thoroughly recommended.

With a custom cable and hyperglides, I'm finallysatisfied with the G303.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> USB could be failing or even worse, the mobo. Try pluging it around somewhere else.
> Or, well, revert whatever changes you did and see if that's the cause.


Well I looked up a lot of troubleshooting - turns out this issue is quite huge and hundreds of users have it. Funny thing is about 80% of the users with the problem all report it being with a logitech mouse.

Anyway some people fixed it by bending their usb pins - this isn't my problem because it happens in any usb port (including ones I've never touched). Another solution for some was to plug it into a different hub on the motherboard which I'll try last (and after that replacing the psu)

So for a lot of people what fixed it was disabling 'usb suspending' - however that didn't work for me and was probably overridden by something else. So someone recommend I try going into device manager and going to universal serial bus controllers and setting each usb port hub to not allow to sleep in their power settings and see if the issue goes away - then lastly they said go to the HID tab and begin not allowing any of those devices to sleep - multiple people reported this as fixing their problem so I'm going to give it a shot. It never happens in desktop and only in-game.

When it happens in game it's after I've moved my mouse and then STOPPED moving it (everytime it does this) so it's almost as if the device went to sleep mode and then woke up again. I'm guessing logitech mice use more power than other mice? Another person said getting a voltage regulator fixed his problem - that could be it too. But I'm going to try the device manager part first

I'll also try to change the irq/msi mode but hopefully that won't be it because keeping your gpu in msi mode reduces visual input lag a noticeable amount (and makes desktop usage more zippy especially with aero disabled).. I'll report back!


----------



## ncck

Ok so I don't want to jinx it but I've played a fair amount today and the issue has not returned

What I did was go to device manager>universal serial bus controllers>usb root hub(the first entry, there's 3) and set it so the computer can't put it to sleep to save power.

Now I'm wondering if I can just somehow set only the mouse itself/mouse usb to not go to sleep - not sure if there's an adverse effects of not allowing a usb root hub to not sleep. I'm guessing logitech has their mouse setup differently than other mice and if some part of the usb section goes to sleep the mouse turns off (as if the computer is going to sleep)... anyway I'm just happy the issue appears to be gone. If it comes back then I'll be worried. Anyone have any ideas if I can accomplish the same result by just setting human interface devices to not sleep - or have any idea which one would be the mouse itself?


----------



## detto87

I remember that the energy saving options in Windows allow customization, so you can edit the currently active energy profile. There you can disable USB power saving feature.

Might be more elegant and do the same trick.


----------



## wein07

Apologies for hijacking this thread, but seeing the 303 is more popular than the 302









Anyone know if I'm trying to get some hyperglides to put on the sides to balance the wobble, I should get the Microsoft MS-3 (0.8mm thick) or the MS-2? Or would the logitech ones do better? Thanks!

http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=ms_skates_1


----------



## Melan

Well, hyperglides are always better than stock feet. It's just an issue of fittings with all this plastic around.

You can put MS-3 feet there (assuming you replace top and bottom feet too), but lod on G303 is already too low and plastic prevents you from using 0.5mm properly (I sanded down entire bottom just to put MX-2 hyperglides).
With G302 lod is higher so you should be ok-ish I guess.


----------



## gene-z

Has anyone tried to round off that sharp angle on the left side of the mouse with gun tape? I think it would make the mouse a lot more comfortable with a rounded edge instead of that sharp protruding angle.


----------



## illitirit

I have been on a long search for the perfect mouse and I think I have found it.

List of mice used for the past year :

1. DeathAdder Chroma
2. Zowie FK2 Huano
3. Zowie ZA13 Huano
4. Mamba TE
5. Naga

I am a pure fingertip grip user. Upon the first grab of the mouse, the weight and size just sang to me. To top it off, whatever sensor this thing has inside has got to be the snappiest, fastest, most accurate I have ever used. WAYYYY better than anything I have tried prior.

I have read alot of people with lens rattle and if I give my G303 a hard shake, I can hear something but I think thats normal with any mouse. With normal use I dont hear anything. Thankfully, I have had no jitter or cursor wierdness.

Imo, this is a pure fingertip user mouse. My pinky and thumb both sit on the outer edges and its perfect. Just for the heck of it i tried in palm and claw, they both feel very wierd.

The scroll wheel is also beautifully done, it just feels good. SOOOOOOOOOO much better than the **** zowie scroll wheels. Left and right click while both are a bit different from each other click wise, no problems here.

This mouse gets a 20/10 from me. Im so happy with it.


----------



## illitirit

Does anyone with the G303 use a artisan raiden?

I am planning on purchasing either a raiden xsoft or mid. I dont know which one would be better, but I have read that the raiden does not track well with some mice. Is this true for the g303?


----------



## detto87

I have Raiden XSoft and MID.
G303 (the 3366 sensor) works flawlessly on those pads.


----------



## falcon26

Would you say the Zowie ZA12 or the G303 is more of a fingertip mouse?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Has anyone tried to round off that sharp angle on the left side of the mouse with gun tape? I think it would make the mouse a lot more comfortable with a rounded edge instead of that sharp protruding angle.


I have tried sanding it down but it didnt work out well. The shape is just too diamond like.


----------



## ncck

I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I fixed the g303 shutting off issue. You just need to go to device manager and go to universal serial bus controllers then the first usb root hub - go to its properties/power options and don't allow it to sleep!

Also I've got a question for people who've used the g303 a lot. Today I just installed the logitech drivers to disable the LEDs and while I was there I saw a 'surface tune' option and tried it out. Is there a specific way to do it properly? I kept retuning thinking I could get it done better.. am I suppose to do an 8 shape across the entire pad or just the area I generally swipe around the most. Also should I try to keep a constant speed or is that irrelevant? The only thing I noticed is that with the 'tuned' setting the LOD seems to have adjusted and it kind of feels like mouse accel is on (but it isn't?).. I went into paint to check it out and I draw lines that are way more crooked compared to the default preset.

In-game it felt ok however... opinions?


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I fixed the g303 shutting off issue. You just need to go to device manager and go to universal serial bus controllers then the first usb root hub - go to its properties/power options and don't allow it to sleep!
> 
> Also I've got a question for people who've used the g303 a lot. Today I just installed the logitech drivers to disable the LEDs and while I was there I saw a 'surface tune' option and tried it out. Is there a specific way to do it properly? I kept retuning thinking I could get it done better.. am I suppose to do an 8 shape across the entire pad or just the area I generally swipe around the most. Also should I try to keep a constant speed or is that irrelevant? The only thing I noticed is that with the 'tuned' setting the LOD seems to have adjusted and it kind of feels like mouse accel is on (but it isn't?).. I went into paint to check it out and I draw lines that are way more crooked compared to the default preset.
> 
> In-game it felt ok however... opinions?


yea i think it it tries to lower the LOD.. other than that idk what to tell you lol. leave it off to be safe if it looks weird in mspaint I guess


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I have Raiden XSoft and MID.
> G303 (the 3366 sensor) works flawlessly on those pads.


Just curious which raiden do you prefer? Im stuck between the two.


----------



## detto87

Pick MID if speed is the only thing that you want.
XSoft might be the better pick with the Raiden though.
It feels more pleasant and allows you to stop the mouse better.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Is this pic misleading? I was under the impression the 302 was the same size as the 303.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Pick MID if speed is the only thing that you want.
> XSoft might be the better pick with the Raiden though.
> It feels more pleasant and allows you to stop the mouse better.


When you say xsoft is more pleasant does that mean the glide has less friction? i have a hayate otsu soft right now and while i have been happy with it i think i want a faster mousepad. I also want it to feel like im gliding on air, i believe people describe this as static friction? with the hayate otsu it feels a bit grainy to me when i use my mouse. i want the glide to feel as though there is nothing underneath the mouse. if you could give more of an opinion with xsoft and mid raiden i would highly value your input.

Which is your fav?


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Would you say the Zowie ZA12 or the G303 is more of a fingertip mouse?


Having used the za13 for a while and then jumping to g303, for sure g303. while it is possible to use zowie za as fingertip grip, the hump on the back to me at least made it feel wierd to me. the g303 size to me is perfect because of no hump and length wise is shorter.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyotkyotkyot*
> 
> Is this pic misleading? I was under the impression the 302 was the same size as the 303.


They have identical (beside sensor hole and side feet on old 302 variants) shells.


----------



## ncck

Anyone know if artisan is making larger sizes yet or did they scrap that idea? I did enjoy the pads they made but the size was just too small. I need a qck heavy size or bigger.. x-large hein ve sounds nice..


----------



## AuraDesruu

Like any of us who game in epic-length sessions, TSM's Dupreeh (CS:GO) appreciates the ergonomics of the mouse too. "Practicing long hours makes me appreciate the shape of the G303," he says. "_And how my hands feel better at the end of the night."
_
http://www.pcgamer.com/logitech-teams-up-with-pro-gamers-to-build-tournament-grade-equipment/

lool


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Like any of us who game in epic-length sessions, TSM's Dupreeh (CS:GO) appreciates the ergonomics of the mouse too. "Practicing long hours makes me appreciate the shape of the G303," he says. "_And how my hands feel better at the end of the night."
> _
> http://www.pcgamer.com/logitech-teams-up-with-pro-gamers-to-build-tournament-grade-equipment/
> 
> lool


Has he complained about it before? I know Karrigan has, but it seems a lot of people on this forum just ignorantly repeat that this mouse has a bad shape like it is some kind of fact. Shapes are subjective and I can see reasoning behind most of the choices made on the shape of this mouse. I've been using it for a month now and it is by far the most comfortable mouse I have ever used for me. The \ / shape of the sides is wonderful for me and makes my grip more secure when lifting my mouse while still being lighter and not causing as much strain or wearing out my fingers as much. I don't think I could ever use a mouse with flat sides | | again or the terrible / \ or ( ) shaped sides of some mice. I could maybe deal with a mouse with ) ( shaped sides. Also the dimond shape is nice and the curves at the sides of the diamond sit perfectly where my thumb and pinky joints bend. The shape definitely isn't for everyone, but if it works well for you it is amazingly comfortable.


----------



## AuraDesruu

I hope they talk to CS GO pros and get a rework on G402's additional dpi/sniper buttons.
Possibly remove the extra screws they added into the G402 to reduce the weight.


----------



## TriviumKM

Can't speak on whether he was being truthful or not, but i do know he went to a Zowie as soon as they left TSM and he wasn't forced to use Logitech. Only one i think still using the g303 on that team is Xyp9x.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I know Karrigan has, but it seems a lot of people on this forum just ignorantly repeat that this mouse has a bad shape like it is some kind of fact.


What are you talking about "ignorantly"? Seems rather dumb to call people with opinions and experience different than yours "ignorant", then the next line try to push your opinion and experience as the reasoning. It's actually quite ironic.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

What does a / \ shaped mouse and a \ / shaped mouse look like?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What does a / \ shaped mouse and a \ / shaped mouse look like?


/ \ shaped IMO1.1, AM

\ / - G303, Diamobdback, Copperhead and to some extent salmosa, abyssus and others.

| | would be in my book the WMO and the MX300 shells.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What does a / \ shaped mouse and a \ / shaped mouse look like?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> What are you talking about "ignorantly"? Seems rather dumb to call people with opinions and experience different than yours "ignorant", then the next line try to push your opinion and experience as the reasoning. It's actually quite ironic.


I don't say shapes I don't like are bad. I simply say I don't like them. It is dumb to keep saying a mouse has a bad shape because you don't like it. I was just saying I happen to very much like the shape of this mouse. What would be hypocritically is for me to say Zowies and the WMO, IMO, and IME are terrible shapes because I personally don't like any of them. I wouldn't say that though because I understand other people hold mice differently than me and those shapes are good for other people. Shapes are subjective. Everyone around here seems to think the G303 could never be comfortable for anyone and is somehow objectively bad which it isn't. His comment of laughing at someone saying the g303 is a good example of that unless that person has said before they don't like the shape.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What does a / \ shaped mouse and a \ / shaped mouse look like?


I said sides, the g303 has \ / shaped sides at the front where you grip it basically it gets narrower at the bottom. I'm having trouble thinking of mice that get narrower at the top, but some do that. I think the IMO actually gets narrower at the top, but it isn't too slanted. Quiet a few ergo mice are slanted like that so they get narrower at the top, but mostly on the right side of the mouse like the zowie ECs and the rival. I'm having trouble thinking of a really strong example of a mouse with that shape right now, but they do exist.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I don't say shapes I don't like are bad. I simply say I don't like them. It is dumb to keep saying a mouse has a bad shape because you don't like it.


Nothing wrong with saying something is bad because you don't like it. It's one thing to say it's bad, and another to say it's bad for everybody. You see people complaining about the shape often because it's an oddity compared to nearly every other mouse shape, so it's going to be a niche shape. Some like it, some don't. Get over it and stop getting upset if some find it to be a bad design for their hand/grip style.


----------



## 2shellbonus

I personally really dig the 303 shape. And I've had to abandon a huge list of mice both ambi and ergo because of shape related issues.

The mouse that fit me best were propably the g502, but it was too heavy. The g303 is really close behind it though. And its light. And I perform better with it.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Nothing wrong with saying something is bad because you don't like it. It's one thing to say it's bad, and another to say it's bad for everybody. You see people complaining about the shape often because it's an oddity compared to nearly every other mouse shape, so it's going to be a niche shape. Some like it, some don't. Get over it and stop getting upset if some find it to be a bad design for their hand/grip style.


Well then we have a huge difference of opinion on when you should actually laugh at people for saying something is comfortable or call it bad, terrible, and awful. I guess I'll just go around saying the IMO is the worst shape in the history of mice because it is the worst shape I've ever tried for me. I don't really consider that right, but oh well. Anything that isn't made specifically for me is awful and I will say it is crap and make fun of people who like it and berate the company that made it.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Anyone know if artisan is making larger sizes yet or did they scrap that idea? I did enjoy the pads they made but the size was just too small. I need a qck heavy size or bigger.. x-large hein ve sounds nice..


They never "scrapped" the idea. X-large or custom size pads are available for purchase but not for us. It's exclusive to Japan, probably because theres no reasonable way to ship huge pads. I doubt very seriously that Artisan will ever fold their pad into a tube like everyone else.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> I personally really dig the 303 shape. And I've had to abandon a huge list of mice both ambi and ergo because of shape related issues.
> 
> The mouse that fit me best were propably the g502, but it was too heavy. The g303 is really close behind it though. And its light. And I perform better with it.


Idk I haven't used a huge amount of mice, but other than the g303 the mouse I've like the most that I've had as far as shape is probably my ancient Logitech optical wheel mouse bj58. I didn't really game for a long time, but when I came back I got a Corsair M65 which is terrible in many ways, but I kept going back to it because it fit my hand better than a few other things I tried. I didn't like that it was too heavy though, and I didn't like that it had a laser sensor once I got better at games and realized that sometimes I was actually missing shots because the sensor wasn't being 100% consistent also the scroll wheel would slam back and forth after a while. Before getting the G303 I was considering between the M45 because I knew I liked the shape and it might be slightly better about some of the problems with the M65, the g100s which I also knew I would probably like because it is similar to the really old logitech, or the g303 and I'm glad I got the g303. I tried using my m65 after using the g303 for a while and I really don't even like the shape anymore and the other problems drive me nuts now. I probably wouldn't put the m45 on my list of mice I'm remotely interested in anymore, but if I was going to try more mice I would probably try the Abyssus now as because that shape looks like it could be alright and it overall seems like a decent, simple, light mouse.

Edit: Oh I forgot to say I'm pretty sure the M65 has terrible click latency too. It is actually a pretty terrible mouse in almost every respect except that it fit my hand fairly well.


----------



## Melan

Scavenged my FK1 for parts (mainly D2F-01F switches) to replace ones in 303. That... was a bad idea.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well then we have a huge difference of opinion on when you should actually laugh at people for saying something is comfortable or call it bad, terrible, and awful. I guess I'll just go around saying the IMO is the worst shape in the history of mice because it is the worst shape I've ever tried for me. I don't really consider that right, but oh well. Anything that isn't made specifically for me is awful and I will say it is crap and make fun of people who like it and berate the company that made it.


You should be laughing at yourself for getting so worked up defending your beloved mouse because others find the shape bad for their hand.


----------



## trism

I generally like the \ / shaped mice more but in the G303 it doesn't work at all. The base is so narrow that it makes the mouse tilt all the time for me. Combine that with the absurdly low LoD and that's it - I can't use the mouse at all because it constantly stops tracking. I need to really concentrate on keeping the mouse straight on top of my pad which really taxes my accuracy, aiming speed and reliability.

The shape itself is fine, I could possibly play with it if it would have 1 mm more LoD or ) ( sides with a wider base.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> When you say xsoft is more pleasant does that mean the glide has less friction? i have a hayate otsu soft right now and while i have been happy with it i think i want a faster mousepad. I also want it to feel like im gliding on air, i believe people describe this as static friction? with the hayate otsu it feels a bit grainy to me when i use my mouse. i want the glide to feel as though there is nothing underneath the mouse. if you could give more of an opinion with xsoft and mid raiden i would highly value your input.


With more pleasant I mean the feel on the skin.
There are situations where I mostly use the wrist for controlling the mouse, and after some gaming in general my hand and wrist get warmed up. That's when the MID is a bit worse than the XSoft, because on the MID my skin sticks more than on the XSoft, simply because the surface is more bendable and therefore the stickiness isn't as much of a problem. Imagine putting your arm on a window glass. Keep it there for a minute and it most probably feels sticky. Now imagine that glass is bendable. ... Weird example, I know.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Which is your fav?


Of all pads or just those two?
Of those two I'd say the XSoft.
Of all pads I had? Not sure. But atm I really like the G640.


----------



## Melan

After few hours of playing, using D2F-01F in 303 actually worked out well. Buttons are very crisp but more sensitive now (and 50% louder) and I didn't even solder them in yet. Might try blue huanos next.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> You should be laughing at yourself for getting so worked up defending your beloved mouse because others find the shape bad for their hand.


Well according to your logic which basically doesn't exist I SHOULD be claiming this is the greatest mouse that has ever existed and I should be laughing at and berating anyone who says it doesn't fit them because it has the best shape for me. I just need to start calling zowies, the old microsoft mice, and a bunch of other popular shapes terrible and I'm all set because everything has to be made exactly for me and anything that isn't great for me is just flat out bad and no one should like it ever.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> With more pleasant I mean the feel on the skin.
> There are situations where I mostly use the wrist for controlling the mouse, and after some gaming in general my hand and wrist get warmed up. That's when the MID is a bit worse than the XSoft, because on the MID my skin sticks more than on the XSoft, simply because the surface is more bendable and therefore the stickiness isn't as much of a problem. Imagine putting your arm on a window glass. Keep it there for a minute and it most probably feels sticky. Now imagine that glass is bendable. ... Weird example, I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of all pads or just those two?
> Of those two I'd say the XSoft.
> Of all pads I had? Not sure. But atm I really like the G640.


Thanks for answering my questions







I just bought a raiden large x-soft. I hope I like it more than my hayate otsu.

Another question for others that have replaced the mousefeet -- It seems there are no g303 hyperglide skates? I see alot of people on this thread buying ones for different models and slapping it on the G303. What is the general consensus to which the best set is?

I see MX-1/2/3 being used. Which one should i choose?

Amazon only has this one in stock at the moment -- http://www.amazon.com/Hyperglide-Microsoft-Intellimouse-Explorer-Optical/dp/B00X9FGBI8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453180132&sr=8-2&keywords=hyperglide+skates

Would these microsoft intellimouse ones work?

edit: I also happend to find this on amazon MX-2

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperglide-Mouse-Skates-Logitech-MX300/dp/B0121M5I4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453180242&sr=8-1&keywords=hyperglides+mx

is this one better?


----------



## wein07

Been using a G302 for a few days now and I like the shape a lot now. However I am able to see how some ppl may not like it. Sensor and buttons and scroll wheel on it are top notch as well. And I've always been a Steelseries kinzu fan boy for 6+ years.

Only downside for me is the illumination causes my palm to sweat, but that was easily fixed by switching it off, no biggie.


----------



## Skrunch

I picked up one of these at Best Buy today, got to the car and immediately noticed the back button had an awful spring/ping noise when pressing it down and a bit of lens rattle. I asked for a replacement and went through all 4 G303's they had available at that Best Buy and all of them either had faulty side buttons or some lens rattle to a degree. I decided to take one home with me that at least had good side buttons but I'm wondering is this mouse prone to rattle at least a little bit? It seems excessive that 4 models in a row were faulty, It's not a very loud rattle but I can definitely hear it if I shake the mouse from side to side a few inches from my ear which wasn't the case on my DA: Chroma.


----------



## 4LC4PON3

I have a g302 that i just bought and a roccat lua and i like the shape of my lua better. Im finding the shape of the 302 to be odd and odd feeling. Tracks like a champ no issues there but just feels off


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skrunch*
> 
> I picked up one of these at Best Buy today, got to the car and immediately noticed the back button had an awful spring/ping noise when pressing it down and a bit of lens rattle. I asked for a replacement and went through all 4 G303's they had available at that Best Buy and all of them either had faulty side buttons or some lens rattle to a degree. I decided to take one home with me that at least had good side buttons but I'm wondering is this mouse prone to rattle at least a little bit? It seems excessive that 4 models in a row were faulty, It's not a very loud rattle but I can definitely hear it if I shake the mouse from side to side a few inches from my ear which wasn't the case on my DA: Chroma.


Yes, it's a common problem. I thought mine didn't have it, but a few days of using it I started noticing a very feint rattle at times. Nothing major for me. As for the side buttons, my forward button is really bad, and the back button is really good. No springy sounds, but the forward button requires quite a bit of force and doesn't have consistency with the back button.


----------



## ncck

I actually rma'd my first g303 which was fairly perfect because of a turning off issue. Turns out it was just the LEDs causing the problem. My pc didn't like how much energy they were using and would shut off the usb port on them - but disabling the LEDs stopped that issue. (and if I wanted to use leds I had to keep the usb ports awake)

That one had a tiny rattle - no click problems, but a faster scroll wheel. No tracking issues at all.

The second one has basically no rattle - the left click seems to work fine but I have heard a 'springy' noise if I tap it lightly and don't actuate it - hope that doesn't become a problem later on. This ones scroll wheel is better giving more tacticle feedback - rest of the mouse feels the same. I've never had any tracking issues with either of them - both were from best buy. I just recommend disabling the lights!


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The lens is not the only thing that can rattle inside. Anyway, if you end up liking the mouse you can open it, fix it, and put on proper skates.


----------



## Skrunch

Thanks for the feedback, I thought the rattling problem wasn't that big of an issue but it seems you have a much better chance of getting a G303 with rattle than without. I'm starting to wonder if it's even possible to buy one that's 100% rattle free and on top of that it seems defective side buttons are fairly common too. I guess I'll try another Best Buy nearby and go through their whole G303 inventory in front of customer support like I did yesterday and hope for the best.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skrunch*
> 
> Thanks for the feedback, I thought the rattling problem wasn't that big of an issue but it seems you have a much better chance of getting a G303 with rattle than without. I'm starting to wonder if it's even possible to buy one that's 100% rattle free and on top of that it seems defective side buttons are fairly common too. I guess I'll try another Best Buy nearby and go through their whole G303 inventory in front of customer support like I did yesterday and hope for the best.


Rattling depends on mouse revision. My 1513 has rattling issues and clicks that feel not as crisp. The 1519 revision has super crisp clicks and no rattle at all.

So it really depends on the revision of the mouse.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Rattling depends on mouse revision. My 1513 has rattling issues and clicks that feel not as crisp. The 1519 revision has super crisp clicks and no rattle at all.
> 
> So it really depends on the revision of the mouse.


Rattling didn't occur on my 1513 spare until I kept opening the mouse and messing with it.

You either get one with it or without it.

Just be sure it's actually the lens rattling.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Rattling didn't occur on my 1513 spare until I kept opening the mouse and messing with it.
> 
> You either get one with it or without it.
> 
> Just be sure it's actually the lens rattling.


Lens moves around a lot if i poke at it with a pencil.

1519 feels like really tight


----------



## illitirit

Any users purchased the Hotline games G303 "competition" skates? Since hyperglide is taking their sweet a$$ time making skates I have been looking for other options.

Was wondering if anyone could chime in and give a review.

Supposedly from their ebay page the competition feet they claim : "New proprietary F4 Silver Treated PTFE to provide a glide smoother than ordinary PTFE, glide feels smoother, and will last for a longer time"

is this true or a hoax?


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Any users purchased the Hotline games G303 "competition" skates? Since hyperglide is taking their sweet a$$ time making skates I have been looking for other options.
> 
> Was wondering if anyone could chime in and give a review.
> 
> Supposedly from their ebay page the competition feet they claim : "New proprietary F4 Silver Treated PTFE to provide a glide smoother than ordinary PTFE, glide feels smoother, and will last for a longer time"
> 
> is this true or a hoax?


Hotline skates suck. I bought a pair for an old G700 I had and they were thin as paper. Not worth it.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Hotline skates suck. I bought a pair for an old G700 I had and they were thin as paper. Not worth it.


Isn't there two thickness offered? One that's ~0.28mm for placing on top of the existing feet and one that's ~0.6mm to replace the original feet.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Isn't there two thickness offered? One that's ~0.28mm for placing on top of the existing feet and one that's ~0.6mm to replace the original feet.


The ones I bought only had one option, not sure what thickness they were, but the mouse case was literally scraping. Was a waste of money.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> The ones I bought only had one option, not sure what thickness they were, but the mouse case was literally scraping. Was a waste of money.


Erm, I believe you are supposed to stick them onto the original feet


----------



## trism

I bought the 0.6 mm thick competition non-cut sheet to replace the mouse feet on the Rival 100. It was thinner than the original mouse feet and offered worse glide even while stacked. However, it's not generally very good to add distance between the sensor lens and the mouse pad as deviating from the 2.4 mm sweet spot can have quite a detrimental effect on the sensor performance depending on the surface.


----------



## illitirit

Wow, well i guess ill stay away from hotline then. Seems all you guys dont like them.

I guess ill buy either a hyperglide MX-1 or MS-3 set and ghetto rig it up.

What do people use to replace the skates on the side of the lens? Should I keep it stock?


----------



## Melan

You shouldn't even use those (i mean sensor feet). Just put MX-1 hyperglides and don't bother anymore.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You shouldn't even use those.


Im aware of that, but at the moment there is no hyperglide g303 right?

I've seen some people on this thread replace with mx-1 and ms-3 and they reported to have been happy with the results.

Unless, there is some other solution you have? Please let me know lol as I would much rather have a surefire solution for the mouseskates.


----------



## Melan

There won't be 303 hyperglides.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You shouldn't even use those (i mean sensor feet).


How come and why not? They do have a purpose...


----------



## Melan

As in screwing with overall glide quality - yes. They don't do anything useful unless you have some incredibly soft pad where it would even out the surface.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I bought the 0.6 mm thick competition non-cut sheet to replace the mouse feet on the Rival 100. It was thinner than the original mouse feet and offered worse glide even while stacked. However, it's not generally very good to add distance between the sensor lens and the mouse pad as deviating from the 2.4 mm sweet spot can have quite a detrimental effect on the sensor performance depending on the surface.


0.6mm is thick. Did you round off the edges and polish the sheet?

Hyperglides are like 0.8mm and rounded off. I think they are very thick purely to allow for better contouring. I doubt those feet are anything special other than being very thick and contoured.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> There won't be 303 hyperglides.


\
Would you recommend MS-3 skates with a cloth pad? Hayate otsu / raiden to be exact.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> 0.6mm is thick. Did you round off the edges and polish the sheet?
> 
> Hyperglides are like 0.8mm and rounded off. I think they are very thick purely to allow for better contouring. I doubt those feet are anything special other than being very thick and contoured.


Just to test, I punched two 0.7 mm diameter rounded pieces on top of the ones I added so those were the only contact points. I didn't polish them though, what do you use to polish them? They naturally have rounded edges since punching with a bit dull tool turns the edge downwards. Maybe the original feet were ~0.8 mm since these don't even come out from the intended slots.

I don't think Hyperglides offer anything special outside of the contouring either. I prefer to have a bit of friction though so maybe I am a bit biased. The G303 glides well with the stock feet on the random Cloud 9 black mouse pad I'm currently testing and I didn't feel any difference after removing the middle feet. I think the used surface matters more.


----------



## the1freeMan

I have a set of 0.6mm hotline for deathadder and they're really good.
No idea what feet are like on the rival 100 but if the material is anything like the kana v2 feet well I don't see how hotlines can glide worse.
I'd avoid he whole competition silver crap, I like Hotline because they are slightly more controlled than Tiger.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I think the used surface matters more.


Absolutely! The Hien surface, for example, is much more demanding in terms of material quality of the feet than a smooth surface like the Qck or the Qpad UC. You can feel many stock feet just drag on it.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> \
> Would you recommend MS-3 skates with a cloth pad? Hayate otsu / raiden to be exact.


Standard logitech feet are 0.6mm thick. MS-3 hyperglides are 0.8mm thick. They are also pretty big so fitting them might not be easy and you already have very low LOD with G303 so adding extra height isn't really good choice.
MX-1 hyperglides are 0.5mm thick and they are small, but there's a problem with mouse base plastic scraping the mousepad because you'll have about 0.15mm difference.
That's why I sanded entire bottom down to have smooth surface and just use round MX-2 hyperglides.

There's also a question of softness of your hayate or raiden. If the pad is xsoft, MS-3 hyperglides will sink in a bit which makes it better choice. With MX-1 you'll just glide on plastic.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Standard logitech feet are 0.6mm thick. MS-3 hyperglides are 0.8mm thick. They are also pretty big so fitting them might not be easy and you already have very low LOD with G303 so adding extra height isn't really good choice.
> MX-1 hyperglides are 0.5mm thick and they are small, but there's a problem with mouse base plastic scraping the mousepad because you'll have about 0.15mm difference.
> That's why I sanded entire bottom down to have smooth surface and just use round MX-2 hyperglides.
> 
> There's also a question of softness of your hayate or raiden. If the pad is xsoft, MS-3 hyperglides will sink in a bit which makes it better choice. With MX-1 you'll just glide on plastic.


Thanks for the explanation. I have a raiden xsoft coming in soon so probably what you said about the mouse sinking in the pad will be true. I think i'll give the MS-3 a shot for now. I'm curious about the side feet, I wonder if they actually fit in the cutout or they will lay on top of the ridges. Top and bottom I am sure ill be able to fit one or two MS-3 in. I hate the feel of plastic drag so hopefully the MS-3 will be good enough without messing with LOD too much.

How did you sand the bottom of your g303? Just sandpaper or did you dremel? Im kind of interested in this. Did it make the glide way better after completing the mod?


----------



## Melan

I used dremel to cut down borders around mouse feet and center piece. Then just applied sandpaper to the mix and made it all smooth. I could've just used more rough sandpaper instead of dremel though, which I'll probably do if I'll find new G303 shell to work with. It has a lot of excess plastic which you can cut out, so a lot of stuff to explore.

Glide improved since no more plastic in the way, and base was so smooth that you could easily glide without feet (for about an hour then lens gets covered with dust).


----------



## vik6

Anywhere I could buy a custom cord for g303?


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vik6*
> 
> Anywhere I could buy a custom cord for g303?


There is a whole thread dedicated to that.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1585956/best-cables-g303


----------



## jthomp

I just got two 1541's and one has no rattle but the other definitely has the lens rattle. It's subtle but there and I think it's causing some performance issues when I draw lines in Photoshop. The buttons are perfect though, so I might just keep it and fix it... maybe. The first g303 that doesn't rattle is one I bought a couple days earlier than the one that rattles. I tried a second one because I thought the current batch for sale at my local store may be fixed but it appears that's not the case.

(Edit: I had a test pic up but I had the sensitivity different on both mice... I am testing further....)

(edit 2: Upon further testing, I think it could be causing a performance issue but without a robotic device of some sort, I don't think I can give valid scientific tests... It could be just that my hand doesn't feel as steady just "knowing" there is rattling)

(Edit 3: By the way, I really enjoy the g303. I've always been an FPS enthusiast but never hardcore, yet I still appreciate the concept behind this mouse. It definitely feels more nimble than my precious g400s mice. I've been playing Quake 1 Darkplaces again recently and I'm very pleased that I decided to try this mouse out as I've seen now how a good smaller mouse can increase performance in such a fast paced game.)


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Standard logitech feet are 0.6mm thick. MS-3 hyperglides are 0.8mm thick. They are also pretty big so fitting them might not be easy and you already have very low LOD with G303 so adding extra height isn't really good choice.
> MX-1 hyperglides are 0.5mm thick and they are small, but there's a problem with mouse base plastic scraping the mousepad because you'll have about 0.15mm difference.
> That's why I sanded entire bottom down to have smooth surface and just use round MX-2 hyperglides.
> 
> There's also a question of softness of your hayate or raiden. If the pad is xsoft, MS-3 hyperglides will sink in a bit which makes it better choice. With MX-1 you'll just glide on plastic.


I can confirm that stacking .5mm feet causes skipping even with surface calibration--tracking is bad enough to be unusable without calibration.


----------



## deviuz

Hey guys, new to the OC.net forums, but I've been lurking around since I'm looking to buy a new mouse and I'm leaning towards the g303. However, I do have one question:

Is the sensor rattle issue fixed in the latest batches? I looked around and some people with 1540(?) batches had no sensor rattle, but having known how people had to RMA 4+ times for a faulty mouse, I'm not sure if I want to take that risk.

If I do get the mouse with sensor rattling, is it worth it to fix the issue myself or go through the RMA process?


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deviuz*
> 
> Hey guys, new to the OC.net forums, but I've been lurking around since I'm looking to buy a new mouse and I'm leaning towards the g303. However, I do have one question:
> 
> Is the sensor rattle issue fixed in the latest batches? I looked around and some people with 1540(?) batches had no sensor rattle, but having known how people had to RMA 4+ times for a faulty mouse, I'm not sure if I want to take that risk.
> 
> If I do get the mouse with sensor rattling, is it worth it to fix the issue myself or go through the RMA process?


Honestly I think its just luck of the draw. I have a 1537xxxxxxx S/N and my unit has been perfect. No rattle, nice clicks, perfect tracking. I purchased randomly at best buy one day without even knowing of these problems the G303 had a week or two ago.


----------



## chr1spe

TBH, I wonder how many of the paint drawings showing the cursor moving back are user error and how many are not. My mouse does make noise and if I am not very careful I get exactly the same thing people report, but the thing is I can also feel my hand over compensating for stopping the mouse and moving it back the other direction a tiny bit. If I'm really careful or when I randomly feel myself not do this the lines are 100% fine. I could try to blame that I do this some times even in game on my mouse, but I'm fairly certain in my case it is all me. I kind of recently switched from a significantly heavier mouse that was around 110-115 grams so I think I'm just slow to adjust to the smaller force required to stop the mouse.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case for all of these drawing and complaints, but I think it is very plausible it is the case for some. I'm not really willing to make a system to test them and go out and buy a ton of g303s to see though.

Edit: Also the rattle I hear from my mouse is extremely faint and I couldn't even hear it for quite a while when shaking the mouse like an inch from my ear, but it does have a very faint rattle.


----------



## navjack27

i'm not really sure what malfunctions people are reporting...





EDIT: i just shook my mouse next to my ear while holding the cable so it wouldn't rattle... its my left mouse button, nothing else has a bit of rattle to it.


----------



## chr1spe

These are from previous posts, but people were posting things like




saying that the part of the line where it comes back the other direction was due to the lens moving and that they were stopping perfectly at the end of the line.


----------



## navjack27

yeah i just tried to do that.... i can't get that to happen unless i... i dunno, maybe if i don't let go of the mouse button before i start moving it down a row?


----------



## deviuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Honestly I think its just luck of the draw. I have a 1537xxxxxxx S/N and my unit has been perfect. No rattle, nice clicks, perfect tracking. I purchased randomly at best buy one day without even knowing of these problems the G303 had a week or two ago.


Thanks for the reply







glad to hear that your mouse doesn't have the rattle, I'm just afraid that the rattle would affect tracking. I guess I'll take the plunge and go for it. Hopefully I get a good batch or else I'll be pretty bummed out.


----------



## chr1spe

It happens to me if I flick very fast and stop very fast and I'm not really careful about stopping like I said, but it is highly variable depending on how careful I am about the movement and I can get it just right while still flicking and stopping very fast and I can feel the difference in the motion when I do it. Also I actually do this in game on very fast flicks, but the aim normally ends up where I want it because it is mostly my hand correcting back to where I originally wanted to stop. Basically if my hand can't stop the mouse as fast as I originally intend to it just fudges it and brings it back to where I wanted to stop originally after stopping it.


----------



## bruzanHD

This happens with all mice. The main reason on the G303 is because the size/weight ratio is bad causing poor speed control. People who enjoy the shape won't notice this as much due too better control.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> This happens with all mice. The main reason on the G303 is because the size/weight ratio is bad causing poor speed control. People who enjoy the shape won't notice this as much due too better control.


Bad in what way? I love the shape and like that it is lighter than my last mouse, but my last mouse wasn't much bigger and was about 20g heavier. Most people would consider the G303 normal or heavy for its size though.


----------



## navjack27

Quote:


> People who enjoy the shape won't notice this as much due too better control.


I kinda feel like people who the shape works for them won't notice it at all. I have hand control with it, I can't blame the mouse or sensor for anything because when stuff does... It's my hand and Arm.

When I feel the need for a heavy mouse I pull out my roccat tyon.

Maybe figuring out a weight mod would be ideal for me... But I don't want to open my mouse since nothing rattles, I'd be to blame if it got put back together wrong


----------



## t1337dude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Bad in what way? I love the shape and like that it is lighter than my last mouse, but my last mouse wasn't much bigger and was about 20g heavier. Most people would consider the G303 normal or heavy for its size though.


I demo'd the G303 earlier at Best Buy and it stood out to me among the bunch as being the most awkward to use due to its shape and weight. It felt like it took a lot of effort to hold compared to all the other mice.

I'm not saying it's a bad mouse - I just think the shape of it is really polarizing.


----------



## illitirit

So I cant make up my mind with mouseskates for the G303 so I took some CS Hyde PTFE mousetape and taped the entire bottom of the g303. Which to my surprise actually feels really nice. I put two layers on.



Glides like crazy on my hayate otsu. I might even not care for hyperglides anymore.

Its ugly as hell but its not like I will ever stare at the bottom of my mouse. I do not see the tape either on the sides when the mouse is being used.

I went around all the skates with a Q tip to ensure there were no ridges from the tape.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *t1337dude*
> 
> I demo'd the G303 earlier at Best Buy and it stood out to me among the bunch as being the most awkward to use due to its shape and weight. It felt like it took a lot of effort to hold compared to all the other mice.
> 
> I'm not saying it's a bad mouse - I just think the shape of it is really polarizing.


Yeah, but the weight is fine imo. Also all shapes are pretty polarizing to some extent because most shapes only really are meant for one type of grip.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The G303 is dense especially around its butt.


----------



## navjack27

one type of grip... maybe


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The G303 is dense especially around its butt.


Really? The center of mass is pretty much dead on the sensor hole from what I can tell and the sensor hole looks pretty centered to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> one type of grip... maybe


You hold the g303 much differently than me honestly and your thumb looks really awkwardly positioned. I would never be able to use that other mouse. Much to big, bulk, tall, and too big of a hump.

Edit: honestly your whole hand looks really awkwardly positioned on there? Why is your index like on the side of the mouse button? I can't even tell if your ring finger is on the side or edge of the top of the mouse.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Maybe they did a quiet revision. I have one of the earlier G303 so that may be why the weight doesn't feel centered.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Maybe they did a quiet revision. I have one of the earlier G303 so that may be why the weight doesn't feel centered.


I mean the cable makes it a little hard to tell because it is so heavy and stiff, but if I just pick it up off the pad and put my finger where the sensor hole is it balances and I have my cable taped to the top of a speaker right in front of my mouse pad. The cable is the only thing I see that is objectively bad about the mouse. I will probably do the paracord thing at some point and try to find and fix whatever causes the slight rattle in my mouse, but I doubt the rattle is actually causing any tracking problems in my case. If I try to move the cable it falls either direction because the cable is so stiff.


----------



## piraap-p

Im using this one, http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-ORIG-USB-Cable-Mouse-Line-For-Steelseries-IKARI-Xai-Sensei-Raw-/151857230550?hash=item235b6572d6:g:juAAAOSw9mFWKJUz
i can say that, this one, is the softer cable i've tried, work's perfectly and i also removed the braided covering.

Low weight cable, soft, feel's really good imo.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Maybe they did a quiet revision. I have one of the earlier G303 so that may be why the weight doesn't feel centered.


Na they didn't, the mouse is back heavy. Hold it in a pure claw grip with the butt pressed all the way into your hand and the weight becomes a non issue. This is one of the reasons I said in my opinion the mouse isn't a fingertip mouse, although if your hand is large enough you can kind of get away with it.


----------



## chr1spe

I hold the mouse with my thumb and pinky joints on the bend in the sides and extending straight forward and with only those two fingers it is perfectly balanced and I lift the mouse evenly. Those fingers are pretty much centered over the sensor hole.


----------



## wareya

holding things with your joints is very bad for your fingers.


----------



## chr1spe

that isn't where I'm applying pressure and the balance point is in front of the bend. The whole pad of my fingers are on the side of the mouse and the joint is not applying any pressure at all. I was just describing where the joints are to give a reference for my finger positioning.

Edit: on my mouse the balance point is exactly between m4 and m5 or maybe a couple mm further back than that.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> holding things with your joints is very bad for your fingers.


Yup, I learned this the hard way. I tried going back to my G303 forcing myself to see if I could get use to it despite the wrist cramps. After a week my thumb was wrecked from clawing the left side above the protruding hump. There is no natural way for me to hold it on the sides. It forces my hand to claw it and essentially have my thumb bent at a very sharp angle. After a while my thumb started going stiff and I stopped using it, but my thumb still has the stiff feeling nearly half a week later and hard to bend. Now I should say it's "uncomfortable" and not bad for my hand, right?









I really wish Logitech made shell clip ons like the G9X for the 303 that had more natural ergonomics:


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah, going through the pictures in this thread my hand would cramp terribly too if I held it like most of the pictures in this thread. Idk what people are doing with their thumbs, but it looks like self inflicted torture to me.


----------



## navjack27

well in my picture i showed that i hold it very similar to my Tyon. not really cramping to me at all.

@chr1spe You hold the g303 much differently than me honestly and your thumb looks really awkwardly positioned. I would never be able to use that other mouse. Much to big, bulk, tall, and too big of a hump.

Edit: honestly your whole hand looks really awkwardly positioned on there? Why is your index like on the side of the mouse button? I can't even tell if your ring finger is on the side or edge of the top of the mouse.

well let's see...

g303:
thumb tip on left hump
pointer finger on the left edge of the left mouse button
middle finger on the wheel
ring finger on the right mouse button
pinky tip on the right hump
palm hovering over the back of the mouse
wrist is my pivot point on my desk/pad

on my tyon:

thumb in the egonomic indentation
pointer finger resting on the two side buttons of the left mouse button
middle on the wheel
ring finger resting on the right two buttons on the right mouse button
pinky just doin its thang on that side
the palm section of my hand that is closest to the pinky and ring finger touch the mouse body
wrist rests on the pad/table

i'll add that i've been using computers since i was like... what 3 or 4 (i'm now 27)... i never do wrist flex exersizes or weird **** like that... never have i had any hand/wrist problems... i'm on the computer 24/7 and my hand is right there like that all day... i play tons of fps games.... i do video editing... photoshop... i ****in do it all except programming.


----------



## jthomp

Not really a big deal for me to grip it. Not as comfy as the g400s but relatively easy for me to grip. Way better for me than the Deathadder with that protrusion on the front right that made my hand actually cramp. My main issue is the sharp edge on the butt of the mouse, but I've managed to grip it a bit differently so that my palm doesn't rub it like it did when I first got it (I had been used to the g400s for awhile).


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Today I reassembled my G303 and now its my main driver again -_- Cant deal with the G100's random dropouts and inconsistent tracking anymore.


----------



## Melan

Inconsistent? Wat.


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Today I reassembled my G303 and now its my main driver again -_- Cant deal with the G100's random dropouts and inconsistent tracking anymore.


Stop hurting your hand.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Today I reassembled my G303 and now its my main driver again -_- Cant deal with the G100's random dropouts and inconsistent tracking anymore.


Buy a mouse with a halfway decent sensor and shape. Don't punish your hand.


----------



## helioNz4R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> These are from previous posts, but people were posting things like
> 
> 
> 
> saying that the part of the line where it comes back the other direction was due to the lens moving and that they were stopping perfectly at the end of the line.


False.
That image was made by me to prove that sensor rattle doesn't exist and all the issues reported by ppl are just human errors. So it's exactly the opposite of what you've said.

The u-turn at the end is just ppls hand moving back a little due to the odd shape and low weight of the mouse.

Just focus and try not to move your hand one bit after stopping the mouse, i can guarantee you the cursor won't wobble.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Inconsistent? Wat.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *helioNz4R*
> 
> False.
> That image was made by me to prove that sensor rattle doesn't exist and all the issues reported by ppl are just human errors. So it's exactly the opposite of what you've said.
> 
> The u-turn at the end is just ppls hand moving back a little due to the odd shape and low weight of the mouse.
> 
> Just focus and try not to move your hand one bit after stopping the mouse, i can guarantee you the cursor won't wobble.


If you read my post I was saying in general people blame that on the lens wobbling while I think it is mostly due to actual mouse movement so I agree with you. I was just trying to give an example of the type of behavior people claim is due lens wobble or whatever. I don't really think you can claim you proved anything without mechanically testing vs other devices though.


----------



## wein07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Standard logitech feet are 0.6mm thick. MS-3 hyperglides are 0.8mm thick. They are also pretty big so fitting them might not be easy and you already have very low LOD with G303 so adding extra height isn't really good choice.
> MX-1 hyperglides are 0.5mm thick and they are small, but there's a problem with mouse base plastic scraping the mousepad because you'll have about 0.15mm difference.
> That's why I sanded entire bottom down to have smooth surface and just use round MX-2 hyperglides.
> 
> There's also a question of softness of your hayate or raiden. If the pad is xsoft, MS-3 hyperglides will sink in a bit which makes it better choice. With MX-1 you'll just glide on plastic.


Do you know if removing stock feet and putting in Hyperglide MS-2 will be high enough to avoid the mouse base plastic scraping the mousepad? Wonder if the MS-2 are 0.5mm thick too. Thanks!


----------



## Melan

All hyperglides are 0.5mm thick unless stated otherwise.

I used MX-1 hyperglides with corepad which isn't soft, so scraping wasn't much of a problem. You'll have about 0.1mm clearance between plastic and feet so with soft pads it will be problematic.


----------



## wein07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> All hyperglides are 0.5mm thick unless stated otherwise.
> 
> I used MX-1 hyperglides with corepad which isn't soft, so scraping wasn't much of a problem. You'll have about 0.1mm clearance between plastic and feet so with soft pads it will be problematic.


Hmm..I am on the Hien VE, think that is considered a soft pad sadly. I'm currently using just the MS-3 on G302 with no tracking issues. However I must say they do feel a tad too high


----------



## Melan

By soft I mean something like artisan zero xsoft where mouse will slightly sink in under weight of your hand. Corepad doesn't have this, not sure about hien VE though.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*


Is that supposed to mean something?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

J I T T E R


----------



## Melan

If you use stupidly high cpi, which isn't something you should have anyways. My G402 has no issues at all, hell I can't even make it malfunction with disabled gyro.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> All hyperglides are 0.5mm thick unless stated otherwise.


I thought most of their newer feet are 0.7mm.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> All hyperglides are 0.5mm thick unless stated otherwise.


i haven't measured but i really really doubt they're that thin.


----------



## Melan

Well, then read specification on their page. 0.7mm are zowie feet.


----------



## qsxcv

http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=ms_skates_1
0.8mm for ms-3

guess it depends on which hyperglide


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=ms_skates_1
> 0.8mm for ms-3
> 
> guess it depends on which hyperglide


The MX300/G1 feet need to be thinner because the shell extends outwardly for the feet. Other mice have the feet set lower.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If you use stupidly high cpi, which isn't something you should have anyways. My G402 has no issues at all, hell I can't even make it malfunction with disabled gyro.


This is at 1000 dpi?


----------



## qsxcv

is that level of jitter really enough to bother you? because i dont' even think it's perceivable unless you draw stuff in paint or photoshop all the time


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

It bothers me because Im OCD and I do notice it. It gives the cursor a very odd feeling.


----------



## jthomp

I get similar results from my g303 (at 800 dpi) if I'm not zoomed in really closely. Photoshop is the problem here (in my case; CS5 in Win7 with 4790K).


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My G303 is perfectly smooth.


----------



## jthomp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> My G303 is perfectly smooth.


What program did you draw those lines in?


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jthomp*
> 
> What program did you draw those lines in?


MS paint lol


----------



## jthomp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> MS paint lol


Oh no... I had to use that the other day in Win 8 to measure something in a screenshot and the ruler was displaying metric spacing even though I had inches selected, so I could measure a fifth of an inch but not a quarter.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> By soft I mean something like artisan zero xsoft where mouse will slightly sink in under weight of your hand. Corepad doesn't have this, not sure about hien VE though.


Soft, but not that soft.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

G303 perfectly smooth
cursor goes exactly how I moved it


----------



## Melan

So does AM010. What's your point?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Not for my G100S. It gives a weird disconnected feeling


----------



## SmashTV

G100s here is fine. Maybe it's time to reformat.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

This install is less than 2 months old. It only affects my G100S and G400S. My G303 works fine.


----------



## navjack27

i'm getting the problem again.

normal



here is what it looks like when it "breaks"



its not the g303 mind you. its any mouse i connect to my computer right now. i'm rebooting to see if it goes away. it is a problem because i end up feeling it as of the computer is polling 2x the rate or at least maybe creating 2x the movement data



what do this!


----------



## iceskeleton

How many usb ports have you tested this on?


----------



## jtl999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> i'm getting the problem again.
> 
> normal
> 
> 
> 
> here is what it looks like when it "breaks"
> 
> 
> 
> its not the g303 mind you. its any mouse i connect to my computer right now. i'm rebooting to see if it goes away. it is a problem because i end up feeling it as of the computer is polling 2x the rate or at least maybe creating 2x the movement data
> 
> 
> 
> what do this!


Even my Macbook has better polling then that


----------



## Melan

That looks like Windows 10.


----------



## navjack27

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> How many usb ports have you tested this on?


the two actual usb 2.0 ports plus the rest of the 3.0 ports which make up the last of the ports on the mobo.
i just rebooted and now its fine again. i really just wanna know *** its doing, i'm half wanting to suspect its my z97 a mobo

EDIT: yes its windows 10... lookin like XP. win10 pro, not the latest updates by a long shot. i do use the logitech drivers, but i know that isn't what's up. my roccat does it too.


----------



## Melan

It's Microsoft's poop usb drivers. Update your Windows 10 to latest version and pray the bug is gone. I had the same issue with first release version and couldn't reproduce it again with new 1511 release.


----------



## navjack27

yeah u prob got something. i was still on 10240. i had to change my group policy and then refresh updates a couple times, now i'm getting a new build 1511 10586


----------



## wein07

Is everyone using on-board memory or computer stored profiles?


----------



## darkfirebg

Hi guys,
i have the following problem, here is a screenshot from my mouse movement recorder while on windows 10 desktop :

And here is another one, while i'm playing cs go..:

Is it the same for you ?


----------



## jtl999

I think that's normal as your cursor is being captured in game.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Hi guys,
> i have the following problem, here is a screenshot from my mouse movement recorder while on windows 10 desktop :
> 
> And here is another one, while i'm playing cs go..:
> 
> Is it the same for you ?


m_rawinput 1 if it's a source game, rinput.exe if it's not a source game, *should* fix it.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> m_rawinput 1 if it's a source game, rinput.exe if it's not a source game, *should* fix it.


Every windows does that when the game is open, except with some implementations of direct/raw input (CS 1.6, Quake live in_mouse 1).

Source does that on both "m_rawinput" settings, rinput isn't any different.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Every windows does that when the game is open, except with some implementations of direct/raw input (CS 1.6, Quake live in_mouse 1).
> 
> Source does that on both "m_rawinput" settings, rinput isn't any different.


i have never had that happen running windows 7 64 bit, even on really high DPIs and low sensitivities where i should be hitting the edges of the screen (1800 DPI @ 0.25) the only time i ever have "negative" accel like that is when i'm using 4/11 windows which isn't even negative accel.


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> m_rawinput 1 if it's a source game, rinput.exe if it's not a source game, *should* fix it.


I'm using m_rawinput 1, and windows 6/11..


----------



## IaVoR

So... I swapped G303 cable for my old Deathadder 3.5
all I had to do was rearrange the wiring to match the logitech's... no wire cutting / crimping I used a really tiny flat head screwdriver to take out the cables and rearrange them accordingly. To be honest I had no idea how much the stock cable was dragging compared to DA
I also plan on getting myself a cable from CeeSA in the future since a lot of users report that it is even better than any other braided cable.
I even managed to reuse my feet









Here are a few pictures


----------



## navjack27

Geeks hate him... See how you can improve your mouse polling by enabling usb3 and plugging it into those ports.

Kinda a joke but so far in just going thru and debunking these 'tips' that are posted online.


----------



## illitirit

Can anyone recommend me a lightweight flexible cable for the G303?

The stock cable is getting on my nerves


----------



## equlix

I used the cable from my rival 100 but the ie 3.0 cables on ebay would imo still be an upgrade too. One of the pins inside the connector may need to be flipped around but you can do that with anything that has a fine point.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> I used the cable from my rival 100 but the ie 3.0 cables on ebay would imo still be an upgrade too. One of the pins inside the connector may need to be flipped around but you can do that with anything that has a fine point.


Do you think this would work? seems cheap enough to try:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-ORIGINAL-High-Quality-Mouse-USB-Cable-Wire-Line-For-Steelseries-Kana-Kinzu-/400694979199?hash=item5d4b482a7f:g:qgUAAMXQyY1TTiQs


----------



## IaVoR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Do you think this would work? seems cheap enough to try:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-ORIGINAL-High-Quality-Mouse-USB-Cable-Wire-Line-For-Steelseries-Kana-Kinzu-/400694979199?hash=item5d4b482a7f:g:qgUAAMXQyY1TTiQs


I see no reason why it wouldn't work.. as long as you match the logitech's wiring


----------



## CeeSA

Yes, connector size will fit. As IaVor said you need to change the cable arrangement.
Also have a look here: Link


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> i have never had that happen running windows 7 64 bit, even on really high DPIs and low sensitivities where i should be hitting the edges of the screen (1800 DPI @ 0.25) the only time i ever have "negative" accel like that is when i'm using 4/11 windows which isn't even negative accel.


You just never noticed. When grabbing input values from windows cursor red and green lined show up due to cursor recentering. Why it happens in Source's raw input I don't know, but that is also the case with Quake live in_mouse 2 (raw). Other cases of it not showing red lines (but you will see green) that come to mind are Battlefiled 3 raw input and Reflex.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> You just never noticed. When grabbing input values from windows cursor red and green lined show up due to cursor recentering. Why it happens in Source's raw input I don't know, but that is also the case with Quake live in_mouse 2 (raw). Other cases of it not showing red lines (but you will see green) that come to mind are Battlefiled 3 raw input and Reflex.


i'll take your word for it, it seems you're far more knowledgeable than i am about input when it comes to games.


----------



## chace90

I couldn't consistently aim with this mouse for the longest time. Hell I couldn't even consistently use the mouse on the desktop because of the skipping and it did this thing were the cursor would do what I believe was dropping counts. I finally figured out how to fix it. What I did was installed the Logitech software. Set the Logitech software not to start at start up and restarted my pc. After that I went into the Logitech folder and found the firmware updater for the g303. Without the Logitech software running I ran the firmware updater and uninstalled the Logitech software. I haven't had a single issue since. Just never install the software again and you are good to go. I decided to do this after the lights on the mouse were glowing different colors at the same time which isn't possible in the software. They really need to fix this software or possibly the firmware on the g303 but I doubt they ever will. I would like to say the mouse works great just never use the software. I can't even begin to imagine how this problem would have even occurred but I have read a lot of people saying they are having inconsistent tracking and I believe this is how to fix it.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chace90*
> 
> I couldn't consistently aim with this mouse for the longest time. Hell I couldn't even consistently use the mouse on the desktop because of the skipping and it did this thing were the cursor would do what I believe was dropping counts. I finally figured out how to fix it. What I did was installed the Logitech software. Set the Logitech software not to start at start up and restarted my pc. After that I went into the Logitech folder and found the firmware updater for the g303. Without the Logitech software running I ran the firmware updater and uninstalled the Logitech software. I haven't had a single issue since. Just never install the software again and you are good to go. I decided to do this after the lights on the mouse were glowing different colors at the same time which isn't possible in the software. They really need to fix this software or possibly the firmware on the g303 but I doubt they ever will. I would like to say the mouse works great just never use the software. I can't even begin to imagine how this problem would have even occurred but I have read a lot of people saying they are having inconsistent tracking and I believe this is how to fix it.


I never have the software turned on, but it sounds like it is time to have it uninstalled :/


----------



## Melan

I always have the software running and neither G303 or G402 had any tracking issues ever.

Oh, and "lights glowing different colors" is possible and configurable within LGS. It's actually the default setting.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chace90*
> 
> ust never install the software again and you are good to go.


Software is fine here on all my Logitech mice. I don't think spreading this nonsense is healthy. The fact that you think spectrum lighting isn't available with the G303 leads me to believe you don't know what you're talking about.

Fire up the software again and get some graphs or something if you can provide some data.


----------



## navjack27

I still can't get constant nice looking polling rates on the g303. My roccat just looks nicer on the graph. But then I'm also not sure how much any of that matters anymore.


----------



## TriviumKM

" I decided to do this after the lights on the mouse were glowing different colors at the same time which isn't possible in the software." - i think he's referring to the "bug" that allows you to have the G logo one solid color while the sides are another solid color (not the spectrum setting in the software). Updating to the latest software version fixed this for me.

Inconsistency on my units was solely due to the sensor wobble, software never affected my 303's performance one bit.


----------



## IaVoR

I have to agree LGS software didn't cause me any issues... the first few weeks I used it without software just plug and play. Nowadays I even use the surface tuning to lower my LOD and still no issues.


----------



## navjack27

Yah the software is fine. Possibly better with it installed and set to use computer instead of on mouse memory. Any sensor issues I think are more related to whatever USB driver Microsoft installs. The sensor wobble thing I still haven't encountered, nor the rattle issue.

Why can't we get custom USB port/controller drivers? I was so surprised when updating windows 10 pro fixed my issue, it really opened my eyes to how many things rely on stock system drivers that are rarely changed


----------



## chace90

I will help you understand this because i likely explained it poorly. You cannot set the lights on the g303 individually to different colors. The lights where glowing blue and red at the same time which you cannot do with the software. If I am not mistaking that means there is something wrong with the software. Also since doing this I have not had a single tracking issue. Again the mouse is works great but the software is buggy. I uninstalled the software and this color bug persisted.


----------



## chace90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Software is fine here on all my Logitech mice. I don't think spreading this nonsense is healthy. The fact that you think spectrum lighting isn't available with the G303 leads me to believe you don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> Fire up the software again and get some graphs or something if you can provide some data.


I fully understand that there is spectrum lighting. But you can not set each individual light on the mouse to different colors. You can only select one color for all the lights at one time. And for me the top light was blue and the bottom lights where red.


----------



## chace90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I always have the software running and neither G303 or G402 had any tracking issues ever.
> 
> Oh, and "lights glowing different colors" is possible and configurable within LGS. It's actually the default setting.


No it was not set for color cycle. I mean the top light was blue and the bottom lights where red and not changing colors.


----------



## kackbratze

Is there any way to factory reset this mouse? The RGB settings are messed up, it just doesn't save to what I want... I set the RGB settings I want in the software, reboot the pc and it is all gone..


----------



## chace90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> Is there any way to factory reset this mouse? The RGB settings are messed up, it just doesn't save to what I want... I set the RGB settings I want in the software, reboot the pc and it is all gone..


There should be a firmware updater in you Logitech folder. You can run that as administrator and that should set everything back to the factory default.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Funny enough the G303 is comfortable for me now O_O


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Other than the density and weight distribution


----------



## Melan

Complaints about disfigured limbs and pain due to improper handling in 3... 2... 1...


----------



## jtl999

What happened? First you damaged your hand and needed nerve surgery.(carpal tunnel?)


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Funny enough the G303 is comfortable for me now O_O
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the density and weight distribution


Werent you the one always complaining about the shape? And issues with your wrist after using it?


----------



## caenlen

I love the shape of this mouse, best $25 I ever spent, I'm getting top 3 score in almost every FPS I play now, I switch bag to my naga and my k/d ratio goes down dramatically again lol


----------



## AuraDesruu

The love and hate relationship with this mouse is unreal


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

@b0z0Yes but I fixed it and now my hand shape is slightly different. The edge no longer digs into my hand.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> The love and hate relationship with this mouse is unreal


I love everything about it but the shape, cable, and lod. Idk if I actually notice the click latency but placebo effect makes it hard to focus.


----------



## b0z0

Can you show how you fixed it


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

I used skateboard deck tape on the sides, lol. Best ever..


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Can you show how you fixed it


I fixed my hand not the shape


----------



## b0z0

Can you show how you fixed it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I fixed my hand not the shape


So it was your hand the entire time, not the mouse.


----------



## trism

I've used the G303 for ~two weeks now as my Rival 100 is opened for a future project and I really like this shape now. Just wish the LoD was higher even though the tilting problem went somewhat away by switching to a 2 mm thin QcK+. Why did I use a 6 mm thick sponge pad anyways...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The shape is still too narrow but for whatever reason I can compensate for it now


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The shape is still too narrow but for whatever reason I can compensate for it now


What was causing the issues in the first place? I remember seeing a post about you needing Surgery


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> The shape is still too narrow but for whatever reason I can compensate for it now
> 
> 
> 
> What was causing the issues in the first place? I remember seeing a post about you needing Surgery
Click to expand...

Ulnar nerve entrapment at wrist. One tendon slipped (the one that attaches my pink to the rest of my arm luckily it wasnt severed. Now I have regained mobility in my pinky and the other half of my ring finger. Currently undergoing physical therapy to regain strength and muscle mass.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Ulnar nerve entrapment at wrist. One tendon slipped (the one that attaches my pink to the rest of my arm luckily it wasnt severed. Now I have regained mobility in my pinky and the other half of my ring finger. Currently undergoing physical therapy to regain strength and muscle mass.


Good to hear man


----------



## illitirit

Does anyone have a solution for the sides of the mouse getting oily?

After a week of use, this problem has started to really bother me. the side edges where the mouse and pinky sit get extremely oily and make the mouse uncomfortable to hold.

I have some e-grips stickers, would this work?


----------



## Melan

Gun grip tape, regular industrial grip tape (used that one) or just clean your mouse with alcohol every week.


----------



## kamyker

Not sure if anyone tried it but ive just fixed sensor rattling without opening the mouse.



That white/pink thing is little part of top of "sticky note" paper, rolled and pushed inside bottom hole under sensor.
ggwp that was so easy


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

It doesn't affect illumination at all?


----------



## kamyker

Nope, nothing changed







, did that without fear becouse i got mouse from cup for free anyway


----------



## daunow

Man so far I am not into this mouse, The scroll wheel is hilariously bad and loud same with the mouse buttons though they are good to press, but the mouse is easy to move around, but the ******* cable *** why does it feel so heavy, side buttons are complete trash and too little, and suffer from being loud.

Maybe all these loud noises is because the mouse is brand new... but man.. I doubt the scroll wheel noise will ever change.

Also the most OBNOXIOUS part about this mouse and will probably be the reason I might return it is due to the fact that it heats the lower side (were the lights are at) for some god dam reason, I turned off the lights, but it wasn't the lights there is something that makes the mouse hot on that area.

Also I didn't see no qay to remove acceleration within the software, so I am guessing it doesn't come with it and just removing it from windows (enhance pointer) is completely fine?


----------



## navjack27

woah what?! no accel i've noticed at all. no heat, *** u have a faulty mouse 100%. get a mouse bungee if ur cable seems to be loud. user error


----------



## Melan

To remove acceleration within LGS you need to switch mode from mouse memory to local (PC) and untick "enhance pointer precision".


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navjack27*
> 
> woah what?! no accel i've noticed at all. no heat, *** u have a faulty mouse 100%. get a mouse bungee if ur cable seems to be loud. user error


1. I didn't claim it had acceleration, I just said I didn't saw it on the software.
2. I said the scroll wheel is awfully loud and the side buttons are kinda too small and a little loud.
3. The lower area were the G is at is a little hotter compare to the rest of the mouse.
4. I doubt I even have a defective one since I am playing with it fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> To remove acceleration within LGS you need to switch mode from mouse memory to local (PC) and untick "enhance pointer precision".


That's basically windows the one I was talking about, and yeah I had it untick. thanks a lot though.


----------



## Melan

And stop complaining about heat issues. Logitech literally gave you a hand warmer for them cold dark winters. Be grateful damn it, because I have to play in mittens.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> And stop complaining about heat issues. Logitech literally gave you a hand warmer for them cold dark winters. Be grateful damn it, because I have to play in mittens.


Lol the mouse is pretty good though, I actually like how I can move it around so easily.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Man so far I am not into this mouse, The scroll wheel is hilariously bad and loud same with the mouse buttons though they are good to press, but the mouse is easy to move around, but the ******* cable *** why does it feel so heavy, side buttons are complete trash and too little, and suffer from being loud.
> 
> Maybe all these loud noises is because the mouse is brand new... but man.. I doubt the scroll wheel noise will ever change.
> 
> Also the most OBNOXIOUS part about this mouse and will probably be the reason I might return it is due to the fact that it heats the lower side (were the lights are at) for some god dam reason, I turned off the lights, but it wasn't the lights there is something that makes the mouse hot on that area.
> 
> Also I didn't see no qay to remove acceleration within the software, so I am guessing it doesn't come with it and just removing it from windows (enhance pointer) is completely fine?


I consider this implementation of the wheel among the best in all of the mice I've had


----------



## Melan

I have to agree that the wheel is damn noisy. Beside that it's kinda hard to press which is why I remapped CPI button to work as M3.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I have to agree that the wheel is damn noisy. Beside that it's kinda hard to press which is why I remapped CPI button to work as M3.


Funnily enough I like the middle mouse button click.. a lot actually.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> I consider this implementation of the wheel among the best in all of the mice I've had


why?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> why?


Several reasons.


It has 24 steps
It provides great feedback (you can tell 1 notch from the other very easily). Much better than what Zowie has with the 16 or 24 step encoder. On par or better than Roccat's Titan wheel
It almost never has phantom scrolls. (hello Zowie 24 step)
It doesn't wobble like mechanical encoders do due to the way its constructed (both ends are fixed, unlike mech encoders where 1 end is free to press the button and the other is fixed in the encoder)
Scroll up doesn't rattle more than scroll down, like it does on most mechanical encoders
Its an optical encoder - which means almost unlimited lifespan. Mech encoders usually go bad within the first 2 years of use
Its almost impossible to spin the wheel by accident when pressing middle click
Middle click is harder to press than other buttons, so it wont be misclicked when scrolling down harder than usual.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Several reasons.
> 
> 
> It has 24 steps
> It provides great feedback (you can tell 1 notch from the other very easily). Much better than what Zowie has with the 16 or 24 step encoder. On par or better than Roccat's Titan wheel
> It almost never has phantom scrolls. (hello Zowie 24 step)
> It doesn't wobble like mechanical encoders do due to the way its constructed (both ends are fixed, unlike mech encoders where 1 end is free to press the button and the other is fixed in the encoder)
> Scroll up doesn't rattle more than scroll down, like it does on most mechanical encoders
> Its an optical encoder - which means almost unlimited lifespan. Mech encoders usually go bad within the first 2 years of use
> Its almost impossible to spin the wheel by accident when pressing middle click
> Middle click is harder to press than other buttons, so it wont be misclicked when scrolling down harder than usual.


Agree, it's a good scroll wheel, still loud as hell.


----------



## qsxcv

i think it's too loud as well.
logitech's optical encoder feels a bit too artificial for me. like if you scroll slowly, the point where the scroll actuates isnt consistent. and with the g303 if you scroll slowly enough you don't get a scroll at all


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think it's too loud as well.
> logitech's optical encoder feels a bit too artificial for me. like if you scroll slowly, the point where the scroll actuates isnt consistent. and with the g303 if you scroll slowly enough you don't get a scroll at all


There is probably a timeout on that.
So whats your pick? Zowie is actually a lot louder than g303 g402 g602 g100s scroll wheels


----------



## Melan

My FK1 scroll wheel was very quiet but flimsy.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> My FK1 scroll wheel was very quiet but flimsy.


Well I only have a EC2 16 step wheel to compare it to atm and its hellishly loud. 24 step wheel is quieter. Whell it was still loud based on my memory


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think it's too loud as well.
> logitech's optical encoder feels a bit too artificial for me. like if you scroll slowly, the point where the scroll actuates isnt consistent. and with the g303 if you scroll slowly enough you don't get a scroll at all
> 
> 
> 
> There is probably a timeout on that.
> So whats your pick? Zowie is actually a lot louder than g303 g402 g602 g100s scroll wheels
Click to expand...

yea for sure it's a timeout. but it's a little bit too aggressive imo.
my favorite wheel is the one on my evga torq x5. it's some kailh mechanical encoder though so durability obviously wouldn't be the greatest. but it's tactile, quiet, and not loose at all.
i've never tried a roccat mouse but i've heard their wheels are great.

but it's possible for an optical encoder to feel consistent. the timeout thing is only necessary because logitech does the quadrature decoding inside the 3pin thing that detects the light, and it's easy for it to get out of sync.

the optical encoders in microsoft's mlt04 mice have almost perfectly consistent actuation points with a tiny bit of hysteresis. so imo a smoother, quieter g303 wheel + microsoft's optical encoder configuration would be perfect.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> And stop complaining about heat issues. Logitech literally gave you a hand warmer for them cold dark winters. Be grateful damn it, because I have to play in mittens.


This is why LEDs are good


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> like if you scroll slowly, the point where the scroll actuates isnt consistent


it is for me though...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> This is why LEDs are good


It's not because of the LEDs tough, also my deathadder didn't do this and had LEDs


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

The G303 has "stronger" LEDs


----------



## Melan

It doesn't.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Welp then explain how it heats up?


----------



## Melan

Body heat?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Body heat?


What? Its only with the G302/G303 lol. Its actually warm to the touch if I leave it on long enough. Doesn't happen with other mice.


----------



## bruzanHD

You guys keep forgetting about the pentium 3 they put in that mouse


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What? Its only with the G302/G303 lol. Its actually warm to the touch if I leave it on long enough. Doesn't happen with other mice.


I know right? My mouse heats up too at points where I put my palm/fingers. Mysterious.


----------



## daunow

So much things I dislike about this mouse, yet it's still a pretty good mouse.


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What? Its only with the G302/G303 lol. Its actually warm to the touch if I leave it on long enough. Doesn't happen with other mice.


I have used this mouse religiously for the past 3 months, and not once have i experienced this "heating up" phenomena, is this unique to your unit?


----------



## saltedham

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> I have used this mouse religiously for the past 3 months, and not once have i experienced this "heating up" phenomena, is this unique to your unit?


my g303 dosent heat up either


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> What? Its only with the G302/G303 lol. Its actually warm to the touch if I leave it on long enough. Doesn't happen with other mice.
> 
> 
> 
> I have used this mouse religiously for the past 3 months, and not once have i experienced this "heating up" phenomena, is this unique to your unit?
Click to expand...

It happens to my G302 and G303. Doesn't happen with my 2nd G302


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It happens to my G302 and G303. Doesn't happen with my 2nd G302


hmm the best guess i can make is that potentially the rgb lighting system may have some problem causing a buildup of heat


----------



## IronBadger9

This, the Xornet II and the Corsair Katar are the best fingertip-grip/small sized mice. I haven't tried the Razer Orochi yet but it's razer it'll break down in 2 weeks anyways.

What I love most about this mouse is it's comfortable and ergonomic grip that makes it easier to pick up than other fingertip mice. And it's real tall, easy to rest my palm on.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronBadger9*
> 
> This, the Xornet II and the Corsair Katar are the best fingertip-grip/small sized mice. I haven't tried the Razer Orochi yet but it's razer it'll break down in 2 weeks anyways.
> 
> What I love most about this mouse is it's comfortable and ergonomic grip that makes it easier to pick up than other fingertip mice. And it's real tall, easy to rest my palm on.


You have no idea what you're talking about


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It happens to my G302 and G303. Doesn't happen with my 2nd G302
> 
> 
> 
> hmm the best guess i can make is that potentially the rgb lighting system may have some problem causing a buildup of heat
Click to expand...

Could be because my G303 and first G302 were one of the first batches. Maybe they changed something.


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronBadger9*
> 
> This, the Xornet II and the Corsair Katar are the best fingertip-grip/small sized mice. I haven't tried the Razer Orochi yet but it's razer it'll break down in 2 weeks anyways.
> 
> What I love most about this mouse is it's comfortable and ergonomic grip that makes it easier to pick up than other fingertip mice. And it's real tall, easy to rest my palm on.


i dont think anyone would disagree with me that the g303 and g302 have pretty abominable shapes, but theres no denying how effective it is for gaming, the fingertip grip it forces gives quite a good bit of control, although im not going to recommend anyone to use hte g303 or 302 for an everyday mouse.

Basically it just boils down to the g303/302 being a very very excellent gaming mouse but very poor for everyday use ergonomics unless you have alien hands.


----------



## Melan

My hands are human and I have no issue using 303.


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> My hands are human and I have no issue using 303.


But would you say that the g303 is more comfortable for everyday use compared to something like the g602?


----------



## fuzzybass

I agree the G303 shape is not bad for gaming. But for desktop use, where you're "floating" the cursor around? Forget about it, LMAO.

One could argue the G303 shape is all about "function", but I argue comfort is also a function. It's all about balance - yes, fantastic gaming function is fantastic, but there's no use in it if I can't use it properly for long periods of itme.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> But would you say that the g303 is more comfortable for everyday use compared to something like the g602?


For me? Yes, absolutely. For someone else? Maybe, but they have to decide whether it's comfy or not. Shape is subjective.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I think you're missing the broader point Melan. You seem to suffer from a case of egocentrism


----------



## Melan

There is no broader point here. People need to try a shape and tell if it fits. There are plenty of people who won't touch an ergonomic mouse with a 10 foot stick. Me included.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I think you're missing the broader point Melan. You seem to suffer from a case of egocentrism


Because he says others should test the shape to see if they like it, he is being egocentric?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I agree the G303 shape is not bad for gaming. But for desktop use, where you're "floating" the cursor around? Forget about it, LMAO.
> 
> One could argue the G303 shape is all about "function", but I argue comfort is also a function. It's all about balance - yes, fantastic gaming function is fantastic, but there's no use in it if I can't use it properly for long periods of itme.


I use the g303 for work now. I find it a lot more comfortable than other mice. Have zero issues with the shape. Hand doesn't get tired at all.


----------



## fuzzybass

Not sure Melan was saying anything wrong here. Everyone's hands are different, and therefore their experiences with a mouse's comfort are subjective. Isn't that a fact?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Not sure Melan was saying anything wrong here. Everyone's hands are different, and therefore their experiences with a mouse's comfort are subjective. Isn't that a fact?


Shape is and always will be pure preference


----------



## hotwheels1997

It is ,but there will always be people that claim it's awful for everybody just because it doesn't work for them.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Not sure Melan was saying anything wrong here. Everyone's hands are different, and therefore their experiences with a mouse's comfort are subjective. Isn't that a fact?


'round here if its bad for you then you tell everyone the mouse is awful. No ifs ands or buts.

A cancer upon this forum it is.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> 'round here if its bad for you then you tell everyone the mouse is awful. No ifs ands or buts.
> 
> A cancer upon this forum it is.


More like personal agendas because people want to weigh in their favorites for the market researchers. It's understandable but annoying.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> More like personal agendas because people want to weigh in their favorites for the market researchers. It's understandable but annoying.


They probably hope this is how it works - post your personal likes and dislikes over and over again in some tech nerd forums and we will have our dream come true devices in no time.

That's why we have that WMO 2016 edition, an optical Sensei as well as a refreshed G400 version, right...RIGHT?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> But would you say that the g303 is more comfortable for everyday use compared to something like the g602?


Lol yes the g303 is infinitely better for me for every day use than something like that. Large mice that want to touch my palm feel terrible to me and make my hand all sweaty even just sitting there.


----------



## Omega215d

I have the MX518, G500, G502, briefly owned the G402, and G303. I find the G303 to be just as comfortable to use as a daily driver while my G502 is a daily driver for work now (tilt function comes in handy) and my hands are normal. Other mice I have on hand are Roccat Savu and CM Storm Spawn which has since gone to my parents' PC.


----------



## illitirit

Just got some hotline gaming competition level skates for G303. Honestly if your used to hyperglides, stay far away from these. Of all the hyperglide I have used in the past, these hotline ones just dont feel good. The corners on the feet are not rounded like hyperglides which I think is what is making it feel horrible. It has actually added friction.


----------



## kornedbeefy

So felt I should toss in my 2 cents. It appears this mouse gets a lot of flak for its shape. Well after a few years of chasing that perfect mouse, this is pretty much it for now in my case.

I have tiny hands and a claw grip, its perfect. It was weird at first but now my hand locks onto this mouse like it it was born with it. It also has a great sensor. Its *low profile* which it seems many mice developers cannot wrap their heads around anymore. Every mouse, even small has to have a huge hump in the palm area. I hate that! It is way to uncomfortable and destroys any attempt at a claw grip.

Mice I have used in order by best: I'll just list a few since I have over 20

Logitech G303 : my lead mouse. My k/d ratio is very in my favor in CS:GO and other FPSers I play online
Logitech G502: all around great mouse. Even though its long its lower profile allowing small handed gamers to easily grasp it.
Roccat Military: also a great mouse for small handed gamers
Mionix Caster
.......... after that its anything goes....the majority of the rest are either to long or to tall or a composition of both features. Or their sensor/features are not as good.

after 19 years of PC gaming I have come to realize that you can become accustom to any mouse. We are now spoiled. I used to be deadly in online fps with the original Razor death adder and the Logitech MX310. Today I would automatically throw them in the trash.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> after 19 years of PC gaming I have come to realize that you can become accustom to any mouse.


Gonna disagree with you there. I used the G303 for quite a while and went to my doctor when I started noticing incredible pain. He told me I should stop immediately using the mouse if that was causing this in order to avoid RSI. Some things are incompatible with some people, this mouse is great if it fits you but otherwise it is not. Shape>sensor.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Gonna disagree with you there. I used the G303 for quite a while and went to my doctor when I started noticing incredible pain. He told me I should stop immediately using the mouse if that was causing this in order to avoid RSI. Some things are incompatible with some people, this mouse is great if it fits you but otherwise it is not. Shape>sensor.


It's less to do with the mouse and more to do with you.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> It's less to do with the mouse and more to do with you.










I thought we just agreed a page ago that shape is personal preference, so why is it the fault of the user if the mouse doesn't work for him/her?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I can personally confirm that if the shape doesnt fit no amount of effort will make it comfortable. I tried ignoring the hand cramps but it steadily got worse.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we just agreed a page ago that shape is personal preference, so why is it the fault of the user if the mouse doesn't work for him/her?


Mouse should not require effort to use. If you need to use force to hold the mouse the way you need, muscles will tense up, later on pain will kick in and then you will enjoy your very own RSI.
Shape is a personal preference but no one can stop you from forcing your self to use something that doesn't really feel comfortable. Deathgrips never work in your favor in the end.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Mouse should not require effort to use. If you need to use force to hold the mouse the way you need, muscles will tense up, later on pain will kick in and then you will enjoy your very own RSI.
> Shape is a personal preference but no one can stop you from forcing your self to use something that doesn't really feel comfortable. Deathgrips never work in your favor in the end.


I agree with what you said. I remember when I used the rival and deathadder I was squeezing the mouse as hard as possible to 'focus' shots. I always thought that was just my grip style. However after swapping to the g303 I can hold the mouse very gently in a full claw and be extremely accurate. I use to say that logitech had alien shapes (I still think they kind of do lol) but the g303 for full claw is perfect. So if you're gripping your mouse very hard then I hate to say it but that mouses shape probably isn't for you. Holding this mouse feels effortless


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we just agreed a page ago that shape is personal preference, so why is it the fault of the user if the mouse doesn't work for him/her?


Shape IS personal preference. You asked a redundant question. If the person continuously uses a shape that causes discomfort you don't blame the mouse. People experience pain and muster on with their products and their Play-Doh wrists give out then that's entirely on them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> why is it the fault of the user if the mouse doesn't work for him/her?


Just had to double quote the hilarity and seriousness of this. Mouse shape isn't working out for me => mouse is at fault. That line of reasoning is top shelf.









DA shape never really worked out well for me, good to know I can blame the mouse.








As opposed to say, my preferences don't favor that shape.


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Shape IS personal preference. You asked a redundant question. If the person continuously uses a shape that causes discomfort you don't blame the mouse. People experience pain and muster on with their products and their Play-Doh wrists give out then that's entirely on them.
> Just had to double quote the hilarity and seriousness of this. Mouse shape isn't working out for me => mouse is at fault. That line of reasoning is top shelf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DA shape never really worked out well for me, good to know I can blame the mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to say, my preferences don't favor that shape.


Haven't you heard? its always the tool's fault when it doesn't do the job right, not the user.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> Haven't you heard? its always the tool's fault when it doesn't do the job right, not the user.


Just like IT at work, your computer not working? Gosh darn IT guys, never doing their job right...IT always breaking things.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> So felt I should toss in my 2 cents. It appears this mouse gets a lot of flak for its shape. Well after a few years of chasing that perfect mouse, this is pretty much it for now in my case.
> 
> I have tiny hands and a claw grip, its perfect. It was weird at first but now my hand locks onto this mouse like it it was born with it. It also has a great sensor. Its *low profile* which it seems many mice developers cannot wrap their heads around anymore. Every mouse, even small has to have a huge hump in the palm area. I hate that! It is way to uncomfortable and destroys any attempt at a claw grip.
> 
> Mice I have used in order by best: I'll just list a few since I have over 20
> 
> Logitech G303 : my lead mouse. My k/d ratio is very in my favor in CS:GO and other FPSers I play online
> Logitech G502: all around great mouse. Even though its long its lower profile allowing small handed gamers to easily grasp it.
> Roccat Military: also a great mouse for small handed gamers
> Mionix Caster
> .......... after that its anything goes....the majority of the rest are either to long or to tall or a composition of both features. Or their sensor/features are not as good.
> 
> after 19 years of PC gaming I have come to realize that you can become accustom to any mouse. We are now spoiled. I used to be deadly in online fps with the original Razor death adder and the Logitech MX310. Today I would automatically throw them in the trash.


I honestly don't mind the shape, is the loud ass scroll wheel and button clicks that are gonna make me refund this.


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> I honestly don't mind the shape, is the loud ass scroll wheel and button clicks that are gonna make me refund this.


Depending how adventurous you are, you could lubricate the wheel up a bit and limit down the noise


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Shape IS personal preference. You asked a redundant question. If the person continuously uses a shape that causes discomfort you don't blame the mouse. People experience pain and muster on with their products and their Play-Doh wrists give out then that's entirely on them.
> Just had to double quote the hilarity and seriousness of this. Mouse shape isn't working out for me => mouse is at fault. That line of reasoning is top shelf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DA shape never really worked out well for me, good to know I can blame the mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to say, my preferences don't favor that shape.


I see what you mean. You were blaming the RSI itself on the user, not necessarily the shape incompatibility. Well, that just makes you a bit of a judgmental jerk then







- what if the user just wanted to see if he could get used to it? What if the onset of RSI was sudden?

If you notice, he didn't say he kept using the mouse after he got the pain.

But otherwise, we do both agree, then, that mouse-shape incompatibility itself is not the fault or an issue with the user. Correct?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Gonna disagree with you there. I used the G303 for quite a while and went to my doctor when I started noticing incredible pain. He told me I should stop immediately using the mouse if that was causing this in order to avoid RSI. Some things are incompatible with some people, this mouse is great if it fits you but otherwise it is not. Shape>sensor.


Same here unfortunately. I like pretty much everything on that mouse, but after 2 weeks of using it as my only mouse and no swapping inbetween, I had very ugly pain in the upper area of my hand. Not the wrist or the fingers, but the back of my hand. Ditched it then and for the time used sth big and palm friendly like Rival where I could just slap my hand on top and won't need any pressure. That was the only mouse I could use after that 'accident'. Didn't go to the doctor though. The pain went away after 3-4 days.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexandero*
> 
> Haven't you heard? its always the tool's fault when it doesn't do the job right, not the user.


I'm pretty sure that saying is meant for people blaming their skill-level on their equipment, not whether or not their equipment is giving them pain.


----------



## CrazyNightOwl

I'd like to share with you my adventures with the G303. Was given one as a gift, was my thoroughly made choice, and at that moment was using the A4tech V3M (a Deathadder copy with anodised aluminum feet). Thought the G303 would be fine for holding it with my fingers only, same as I hold the V3M. The latter is in general a good mouse, except for the fact that when you click the hard blue (or are they red?) Huano switches, the mouse can glide a way a bit due to the metal feet xD Well you can get used to that, but I thought, that the G303 would've been better, and that a "better" sensor would be perceptible, not just a placebo. What it turned out to be: a week or two with pain in the pinky, exchanging in for a G502 (with the goal of getting the same sensor); the G502 was a piece of junk (sorry Logitech) that weighed like a brick, had a really stiff cord and of course no fingertip either! Plus, it had a faulty sensor since I couldn't aim the same pixel-perfect way in BC2 (which is why I buy these for, in the first place) as with the G303. Returned the G502 (hardly returned, since the sales assistant refused to accept my understanding of "this mouse doesn't work the way it should"). Then spent two or three hours at the shop comparing the Abyssus to the G303. And I must tell you, I was probably a fool to buy the G303 once again based on the fact that it has better cursor quality on the desktop! Since in the game, with a low sensitivity, they're all the same, including my old V3M (which uses the PixArt 3305PDK sensor).. And the G303 has a really, really stiff cord that seems to live its own life, and a weird shape that actually induces pain in the pinky. Wish I could just RMA it based on how unhealthy it is!

That said, it does have a very nice sensor and superb clicks. It's the ergonomics where Logitech have shot themselves in the foot.

P.S. How much can you sell a used G710+ for? I'm thinking about refurbing one by installing a few new keys obtained under warranty and get smth nicer, probably tenkeyless, that doesn't take as much space. Or maybe just mod the case and install decent keys?


----------



## ozzy1925

i would like to buy skates for my g303 and i know its personal preference but not sure which Hotline Games gives more control on artisan xsoft and soft pad?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ

performance 0.6-0.28 or comp 0.6-0.28


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i would like to buy skates for my g303 and i know its personal preference but not sure which Hotline Games gives more control on artisan xsoft and soft pad?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ
> 
> performance 0.6-0.28 or comp 0.6-0.28


Regardless of the pad, you'll have to replace the stock feet with the skates, not stack them on, and use surface calibration, or you'll experience skipping.


----------



## evilhf

êsFechar tela cheiaHello people..
I will post my experience using the g303.
Got the mouse in November 2015 and previously owned the abyssus 3500.
At the beginning right away realized that the sensor was too but much higher, but the shape, weight and low lod made me wonder the mouse.
Am player QuakeLive and missed agility muscle memory that it had acquired over the abyssus.
The weight of the mouse on a precision scale was 89 grams, 68 grams abyssus possessed.
Then I open the mouse and cut off some parts of plastic useless without changing the chassis and running.
also I changed the original thick cable with a braided also a taipan razer I had here.
Only these changes the weight of the mouse already decreased to 80 grams.
already I felt a huge difference in speed with the mouse, especially in flyck shots.
later I cut off the feet that are wrapped sensor.
now much already practicing with the mouse feel in ecstasy controlling the mouse.
and so naturally fluent and accurate.
the form already is not a problem for me and already tried to use non-slip tape on the sides of the mouse but found odd.
these days atraz called my old abyssus to compare and the difference is very large.
I love the sensor and now love the way.
not to mention design that is too much.
then my conclusion is that all of them have this mouse do these modifications and take a while to get used to it, because then never will want another!


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I see what you mean. You were blaming the RSI itself on the user, not necessarily the shape incompatibility. Well, that just makes you a bit of a judgmental jerk then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - what if the user just wanted to see if he could get used to it? What if the onset of RSI was sudden?
> 
> If you notice, he didn't say he kept using the mouse after he got the pain.
> 
> But otherwise, we do both agree, then, that mouse-shape incompatibility itself is not the fault or an issue with the user. Correct?


RSI has the word repetitive in there for a reason. Even sudden onset is caused by something over a peroid of time to have caused it. Unless I'm seeing some data that correlates G302/G303 use and a spike in RSI I'm not buying the shape alone caused it.

Shape incompatbility is a user preference. Not a "fault" per se but the call lies on the user and less on the mouse.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> RSI has the word repetitive in there for a reason. Even sudden onset is caused by something over a peroid of time to have caused it. Unless I'm seeing some data that correlates G302/G303 use and a spike in RSI I'm not buying the shape alone caused it.
> 
> Shape incompatbility is a user preference. Not a "fault" per se but the call lies on the user and less on the mouse.


Don't be naive. Some people can't use things. Just like a 4m^2 box cant fit into a 1m^2 hole.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i would like to buy skates for my g303 and i know its personal preference but not sure which Hotline Games gives more control on artisan xsoft and soft pad?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ
> 
> performance 0.6-0.28 or comp 0.6-0.28


I just got packs of 0.6 and 0.28 competition skates. Personally if you can, get some hyperglides instead. The hotline skates are not great. They are not bad, however there is really no difference vs the OEM skates. There is a huge difference in using hyperglides since they have rounded edges. The hotline ones are not rounded.

I can see if your using a pretty hard pad it should work okay, but if your using a cloth mousepad, those unrounded corners will just create more friction.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evilhf*
> 
> êsFechar tela cheiaHello people..
> I will post my experience using the g303.
> Got the mouse in November 2015 and previously owned the abyssus 3500.
> At the beginning right away realized that the sensor was too but much higher, but the shape, weight and low lod made me wonder the mouse.
> Am player QuakeLive and missed agility muscle memory that it had acquired over the abyssus.
> The weight of the mouse on a precision scale was 89 grams, 68 grams abyssus possessed.
> Then I open the mouse and cut off some parts of plastic useless without changing the chassis and running.
> also I changed the original thick cable with a braided also a taipan razer I had here.
> Only these changes the weight of the mouse already decreased to 80 grams.
> already I felt a huge difference in speed with the mouse, especially in flyck shots.
> later I cut off the feet that are wrapped sensor.
> now much already practicing with the mouse feel in ecstasy controlling the mouse.
> and so naturally fluent and accurate.
> the form already is not a problem for me and already tried to use non-slip tape on the sides of the mouse but found odd.
> these days atraz called my old abyssus to compare and the difference is very large.
> I love the sensor and now love the way.
> not to mention design that is too much.
> then my conclusion is that all of them have this mouse do these modifications and take a while to get used to it, because then never will want another!


I am just curious how did you cut the plastic? I want to make my g303 lighter.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> RSI has the word repetitive in there for a reason. Even sudden onset is caused by something over a peroid of time to have caused it.


Yea, but I've had experience with very minor RSI before (or something like it - wrist pain related to too much computer use), and there is still a thresh-hold between "no pain" to "pain". I can understand RSI having varying degrees of severity and pain, but you still need to fairly obviously pass the "no pain" line before you get it. And to a lot of people (like me), you don't know you're moving towards that line until you do.
Quote:


> Unless I'm seeing some data that correlates G302/G303 use and a spike in RSI I'm not buying the shape alone caused it.


I don't know why you insist on "defending" the mouse. The user, when he talked about his experiences with RSI on the G303 wasn't directly criticizing the G303, nor saying it was the cause of the RSI - he was responding to a point that "anyone can get used to any shape", which is clearly not true. If we all agree that shape preferences are due to differences in everyone's hand-size/shape, then it should imply that everyone can't adapt to any kind of mouse shape.
Quote:


> Shape incompatbility is a user preference. Not a "fault" per se but the call lies on the user and less on the mouse.


You know... even though I agree mouse-shape is personal preference, it is still possible for a mouse shape to be so bad that most people can't use it. If there is a mouse in the shape of a porcupine, it'd be unusable.
Quote:


> Not a "fault" per se but the call lies on the user and less on the mouse.


What does "the call lies on the user" even mean? It still sounds like "blaming the user" to me.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Speaking of keyboards I got my Steelseries Apex M800 about a week ago. And tbh I think it was worth the 217$ I paid for it. Now if only it had more complex illumination software...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Yea, but I've had experience with very minor RSI before (or something like it - wrist pain related to too much computer use), and there is still a thresh-hold between "no pain" to "pain". I can understand RSI having varying degrees of severity and pain, but you still need to fairly obviously pass the "no pain" line before you get it. And to a lot of people (like me), you don't know you're moving towards that line until you do.
> I don't know why you insist on "defending" the mouse. The user, when he talked about his experiences with RSI on the G303 wasn't directly criticizing the G303, nor saying it was the cause of the RSI - he was responding to a point that "anyone can get used to any shape", which is clearly not true. If we all agree that shape preferences are due to differences in everyone's hand-size/shape, then it should imply that everyone can't adapt to any kind of mouse shape.
> You know... even though I agree mouse-shape is personal preference, it is still possible for a mouse shape to be so bad that most people can't use it. If there is a mouse in the shape of a porcupine, it'd be unusable.
> What does "the call lies on the user" even mean? It still sounds like "blaming the user" to me.


Hes a logitech shill/fanboy, did the same thing with g402


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Yea, but I've had experience with very minor RSI before (or something like it - wrist pain related to too much computer use), and there is still a thresh-hold between "no pain" to "pain". I can understand RSI having varying degrees of severity and pain, but you still need to fairly obviously pass the "no pain" line before you get it. And to a lot of people (like me), you don't know you're moving towards that line until you do.


I've had my brush with RSI as well and I know better than to just slap blame on the mouse I was using.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I don't know why you insist on "defending" the mouse. The user, when he talked about his experiences with RSI on the G303 wasn't directly criticizing the G303, nor saying it was the cause of the RSI - he was responding to a point that "anyone can get used to any shape", which is clearly not true. If we all agree that shape preferences are due to differences in everyone's hand-size/shape, then it should imply that everyone can't adapt to any kind of mouse shape.


I don't agree anyone can adapt to any shape.

I'm not defending the mouse as much as I'm refuting the blanket statement that X mouse causes RSI. Yes, it has more to do with the person than the mouse. Some people can handle it, some people can't. It depends in the person. Its not a fault of the mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> You know... even though I agree mouse-shape is personal preference, it is still possible for a mouse shape to be so bad that most people can't use it. If there is a mouse in the shape of a porcupine, it'd be unusable.
> What does "the call lies on the user" even mean? It still sounds like "blaming the user" to me.


Of course when you use a terrible example like that listed. What if your car shot exhaust into your face when you drove it?

If I find that thicker steering wheels strain my hands when driving I'm not blaming the wheel on my problems. Its my hands with the issue.

(Within the realm of reason before I get another porcupine analogy)

If the shape was so bad it wouldn't be as much of a seller as it is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Hes a logitech shill/fanboy, did the same thing with g402


No you're just bitter no company finds use in making decent 3 button mice.

Fly a kite.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Don't be naive. Some people can't use things. Just like a 4m^2 box cant fit into a 1m^2 hole.


Another poor analogy.

Some people can't use things but is it the fault of the object...

If holding a 5.5 inch phone in one hand during use causes strain according to these posts I can blame the phone on my problems.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I've had my brush with RSI as well and I know better than to just slap blame on the mouse I was using.
> I don't agree anyone can adapt to any shape.
> 
> I'm not defending the mouse as much as I'm refuting the blanket statement that X mouse causes RSI. Yes, it has more to do with the person than the mouse. Some people can handle it, some people can't. It depends in the person. Its not a fault of the mouse.
> Of course when you use a terrible example like that listed. What if your car shot exhaust into your face when you drove it?
> 
> If I find that thicker steering wheels strain my hands when driving I'm not blaming the wheel on my problems. Its my hands with the issue.
> 
> (Within the realm of reason before I get another porcupine analogy)
> 
> If the shape was so bad it wouldn't be as much of a seller as it is.
> No you're just bitter no company finds use in making decent 3 button mice.
> 
> Fly a kite.


what do you mean no? its what you do, g402 and g303 are both trash mice. lol'ed when i tried the g303 shape at best buy. wait wut no company makes good 3 button mice, what is krait 2013 and sica?


----------



## turnschuh

Hey got a friend who has a G303 with the 1st batch (?) lens rattle issues and contacted support twice already with no response yet?
Any idea what to do? Can i just write here those two ticket numbers? Any active logitech guys in here?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> what do you mean no? its what you do, g402 and g303 are both trash mice. lol'ed when i tried the g303 shape at best buy. wait wut no company makes good 3 button mice, what is krait 2013 and sica?


Oh I thought you actually had a post of substance. Shame on me for expecting that.

And I said decent. Unless you think that 20ms+ clicks are nice and no onboard memory or DPI changing switch. Having to always use Synapse to get desired settings...

If you want to derail the thread more, great. Take it to PM if you want to continue.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Oh I thought you actually had a post of substance. Shame on me for expecting that.
> 
> And I said decent. Unless you think that 20ms+ clicks are nice and no onboard memory or DPI changing switch. Having to always use Synapse to get desired settings...
> 
> If you want to derail the thread more, great. Take it to PM if you want to continue.


Never tried the krait so cant comment on the latency of the clicks, and never heard of krait not having onboard memory (thats abyssus 2014), why would you want a dpi switch lmao? its called setting the dpi you want in the software and uninstalling. also you didnt comment on the sica which is better obviously. on topic though, yeah, you are a logitech shill, get mad and keep replying and white knighting a terrible shaped mouse


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> I just got packs of 0.6 and 0.28 competition skates. Personally if you can, get some hyperglides instead. The hotline skates are not great. They are not bad, however there is really no difference vs the OEM skates. There is a huge difference in using hyperglides since they have rounded edges. The hotline ones are not rounded.
> 
> I can see if your using a pretty hard pad it should work okay, but if your using a cloth mousepad, those unrounded corners will just create more friction.


thanks ,can you tell me where to get hyperglides for g303? i dont see any listing.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> thanks ,can you tell me where to get hyperglides for g303? i dont see any listing.


They dont exist for the G303, I doubt they ever will.

So all you can really do is purchase a universal set and stick them on. I recommend the MX-1 series since they are the only ones small enough to fit inside the mousefeet plastic cutouts.
I have seen that other sets work as well such as the MS-3 set, but they wont fit perfectly inside the mouse skate grooves, so it could produce wobble / unevenness.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i would like to buy skates for my g303 and i know its personal preference but not sure which Hotline Games gives more control on artisan xsoft and soft pad?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319?var=&hash=item1c5b860ddf:m:mNodHk81ZbE35qck3PcCfRQ
> 
> performance 0.6-0.28 or comp 0.6-0.28


Lol read the auction!

They don't make Hyperglides for G303.

Hotlines have better material than Logitech's (or most brand's) stock feet. Though it's less noticeable on smoother pads.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> I'm not defending the mouse as much as I'm refuting the blanket statement that X mouse causes RSI. Yes, it has more to do with the person than the mouse. Some people can handle it, some people can't. It depends in the person. Its not a fault of the mouse.
> 
> Of course when you use a terrible example like that listed. What if your car shot exhaust into your face when you drove it?
> 
> If I find that thicker steering wheels strain my hands when driving I'm not blaming the wheel on my problems. Its my hands with the issue.
> 
> (Within the realm of reason before I get another porcupine analogy)
> 
> If the shape was so bad it wouldn't be as much of a seller as it is.


So on one hand you agree that mouse shape is personal preference, yet on the other hand, you say it's the user's fault if he gets RSI from using a specific mouse.

Do you not see the contradiction in this? What part of "personal preference" do you not understand? If you blame RSI on the user, you're not respecting the person's "personal preference" much, are you?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> Never tried the krait so cant comment on the latency of the clicks, and never heard of krait not having onboard memory (thats abyssus 2014), why would you want a dpi switch lmao? its called setting the dpi you want in the software and uninstalling. also you didnt comment on the sica which is better obviously. on topic though, yeah, you are a logitech shill, get mad and keep replying and white knighting a terrible shaped mouse


The Sica has absolutely atrocious click latency. The did try to update it, but instead of Zowie which went from laughably bad to just bad the Sica went from probably the worst mouse ever tested for button delay to just laughably bad. On the upside you can actually flash the firmware instead of buying a new one. That is where he commented on the sica.

From a technical standpoint the g303 is one of if not the best mice available and there are some people, like me, that absolutely love the shape. It may be subjectively hated for its shape, but at least on the technical aspects it is objectively a very good mouse which is more than at least 90% of the competition can say.


----------



## bruzanHD

No I'm saying thay it is possible for a mouse to be incompatible with a user. It's neither the fault of the object or user, it is both or neither. Incompatible.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> No I'm saying thay it is possible for a mouse to be incompatible with a user. It's neither the fault of the object or user, it is both or neither. Incompatible.


Was that in response to me? Because my post was in response to SmashTV, not you.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Was that in response to me? Because my post was in response to SmashTV, not you.


I'm also responding to SmashTV


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> The Sica has absolutely atrocious click latency. The did try to update it, but instead of Zowie which went from laughably bad to just bad the Sica went from probably the worst mouse ever tested for button delay to just laughably bad. On the upside you can actually flash the firmware instead of buying a new one. That is where he commented on the sica.
> 
> From a technical standpoint the g303 is one of if not the best mice available and there are some people, like me, that absolutely love the shape. It may be subjectively hated for its shape, but at least on the technical aspects it is objectively a very good mouse which is more than at least 90% of the competition can say.


well if thats the only thing bad about sica is like 10-20ms click latency its still a great mouse with one of the best sensors that u can actually choose which dpi u want in 50 increments, good shape, no forced LEDs etc. and well you can say g502, rival 700, and finalmouse scream is "one of if not the best mice available" due to 3366... but they all have major flaws whether its alien design, bad shape, heavy weight, forced LEDs etc. if only a company released a flawless mouse with 3366....

also on you saying g303 shape is fine for you, yeah it may work but wouldnt a real shape like abyssus, FK, sensei, g100s, kinzu etc be a lot better anyways?


----------



## Melan

If it was working better, he would be using it by now.
There is nothing "real" about other shapes too. They either work or they don't. No one guaranteed you 100% compatibility with your hand.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> They either work or they don't.


Not entirely correct imo.

My biggest grip with Logitech shapes have always been the "strong" indentations and sharp edges. It's not the base shape per se that is the problem. A more minimalistic approach such as smooth curves of a Zowie, Deathadder, ... allows for higher compatibility.

I bet the hate for the G303 wouldn't be as strong, or even exist at all, if the shape was basically the same, but with the edges smoothed out (middle towards rear end, rear end itself, etc).


----------



## Melan

Well, sharp edges are a part of the shell and if they cause discomfort then it doesn't fit, like in your case.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> well if thats the only thing bad about sica is like 10-20ms click latency its still a great mouse with one of the best sensors that u can actually choose which dpi u want in 50 increments, good shape, no forced LEDs etc. and well you can say g502, rival 700, and finalmouse scream is "one of if not the best mice available" due to 3366... but they all have major flaws whether its alien design, bad shape, heavy weight, forced LEDs etc. if only a company released a flawless mouse with 3366....
> 
> also on you saying g303 shape is fine for you, yeah it may work but wouldnt a real shape like abyssus, FK, sensei, g100s, kinzu etc be a lot better anyways?


The only actual problem with the g303 is the cable which can be replaced. The shape is entirely subjective though I don't know what "real" shape means. The FK, sensei, and kinzu are actually quite bad shapes for me. The g100s is okay, but not as good as the g303 and I haven't really tried an abyssus to be honest, but the shape looks like it might be okay though almost certainly not as good as the g303.

Edit: Accidentally posted 1/2 my comment. I meant to also say: The main things I really look for in a shape is a flat top that doesn't have much of a hump and a narrow back of the mouse. I also love how the sides of the g303 slant quite a bit outwards towards the top because it makes my grip much more secure while lifting the mouse while holding the mouse more relaxed and lightly than other mice with flatter sides. Some of the mice you listed do that to varying extents, but none are as pronounced from what I remember.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Well, sharp edges are a part of the shell and if they cause discomfort then it doesn't fit, like in your case.


The shape itself works for me, the ridges can cause fatigue and pain however in some cases. The argument here isn't really the shape, but the excessiveness of edges, which basically indirectly tells users:

"Aw to bad, if only your fingers were half a centimeter longer... though luck."
"Aw, you would like to hold it slightly more in the back? Damn son, no such thing, we've got this ridge here right where you wanted to place that particular part of your thumb"

Smoother shapes like Zowie, Intelli, DA, ... :

No such thing, need to place your finger a tad more in X angle or more towards the back or front? No problem, you just do so.

The idea is that it imposes a limit basically. If you want to use the argument of "it fits", you could basically say that the more simplistic shapes have potentially bigger group of people where it can fit.


----------



## Melan

You say shape works for you but then parts of the shape cause fatigue and pain. So, does it fit or not? Yes or no will suffice.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quick question, does the logitech software allow you to enable prediction?


----------



## Melan

It has this "angle snapping" tick box in settings... it's just uhh... doesn't really snap for some reason for me.


----------



## Gonzalez07

hmmm ok thanks. I used to use the g9x with this option enabled and was just curious if the g303 had it.


----------



## CorruptBE

I've explained this before, but here goes...

The base shape is how the front goes from narrow into wide and then back into narrow, this works, the sharp edges are the problem.

*
To explain this, with a bit of over exaggeration:*

*1) The current shape:*



*2) How they could've done it, to avoid some issues for the sides of the mouse:*


----------



## Melan

I know what you've meant as I remember what you've posted long time ago in this thread.

What I'm trying to figure out is your "Shape fits but some parts cause pain (which mean it doesn't fit)" thing. Because if any part of the shape causes discomfort == shape doesn't work. Make up your mind.


----------



## daunow

I don't know it doesn't feel like it has sharp edges... at all.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> I've explained this before, but here goes...
> 
> The base shape is how the front goes from narrow into wide and then back into narrow, this works, the sharp edges are the problem.
> 
> *
> To explain this, with a bit of over exaggeration:*
> 
> *1) The current shape:*
> 
> 
> 
> *2) How they could've done it, to avoid some issues for the sides of the mouse:*


Here's how they could have done it:


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> Quick question, does the logitech software allow you to enable prediction?


Yes but its nigh unnoticeable for some reason


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Here's how they could have done it:


logitech logic: it has a normal office shape therefore its low end, am010 500hz only!


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> So on one hand you agree that mouse shape is personal preference, yet on the other hand, you say it's the user's fault if he gets RSI from using a specific mouse.
> 
> Do you not see the contradiction in this? What part of "personal preference" do you not understand? If you blame RSI on the user, you're not respecting the person's "personal preference" much, are you?


You're misunderstanding.

Yes, shape comfort is preference. A personal preference at that. There is no debating this.

The same example, restated: Let's say I can use a curved back smartphone no problems. If I used an iPhone and I felt pain and strained my wrists in doing so, would it be the fault of the iPhone for my discomfort? Or does the users hands not mesh well with that particular phone and exhibit discomfort?

One assumes the phone causes problems, the other assumes the user's incompatibility for whatever reasons. That is where the clarity is.

This has dragged on long enough in this thread so if you wish to continue it, drop a PM.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Yes but its nigh unnoticeable for some reason


Actually it only uses windows Enhanced precision, so the mouse itself stand alone does not have acceleration, from what I see.


----------



## ozzy1925

i hear quiet noise when shaking the mousr to test the lens rattle but i want to make sure if it really rattles.After i read on reddit "put your finger on the lens and shake the mouse if the cursor moves than you have problem ".Is that the correct way?


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i hear quiet noise when shaking the mousr to test the lens rattle but i want to make sure if it really rattles.After i read on reddit "put your finger on the lens and shake the mouse if the cursor moves than you have problem ".Is that the correct way?


Yes that would be the easiest way to detect if it is indeed suffering from sensor rattle


----------



## equlix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i hear quiet noise when shaking the mousr to test the lens rattle but i want to make sure if it really rattles.After i read on reddit "put your finger on the lens and shake the mouse if the cursor moves than you have problem ".Is that the correct way?


I would recommend using black tape or taping paper over the hole instead of using your finger.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> The same example, restated: Let's say I can use a curved back smartphone no problems. If I used an iPhone and I felt pain and strained my wrists in doing so, would it be the fault of the iPhone for my discomfort? Or does the users hands not mesh well with that particular phone and exhibit discomfort?


I think you're forgetting that it's the user who's buying the mouse, and the mouse was manufactured to be sold as much as possible. Do you think manufacturers, in their pursuit of making the most money, expect everyone to force themselves to adapt to whatever shape their mice are, or do you think manufacturers try to shape their mice to accommodate as many people as possible? Occam's Razor says the latter.

And, as someone else said, it's not a matter of "blaming" the user or the mouse. If a mouse just doesn't work for somebody, it just doesn't work for somebody. Blaming someone for getting RSI is ridiculous. This is my final say on the matter as well, so don't expect a PM from me.


----------



## illitirit

Holy crap i replaced the stock G303 cord just now with a stripped and unbraided deathadder wire (took me freaking 2 hours to unbraid). Also was quite hard to fit the DA cord into the G303. I had to snip alot of stuff from the wire.

The difference is ******ed. I cant believe how much the stock cable ruins the G303 experience. I feel like im flying now.


----------



## Melan

Makes me wonder how good paracord cable would be. Not that I'm having issues with stock one though.


----------



## qsxcv

yup, even a braided da cable is a huge improvement over the stock logitech cable.


----------



## illitirit

im almost disgusted after using the DA cord now for less than 10 minutes W T F logitech was thinking with that fail cord. I already threw it in the trash.


----------



## Melan

Alright, I'll bite. Gonna order one and see for my self. Any particular vendor on ebay?


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Alright, I'll bite. Gonna order one and see for my self. Any particular vendor on ebay?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/191138230522?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That is the one i purchased. Its nice too since the seller is in USA, got to me in 2 days.

I will warn you that you will have to snip off some rubber from the part of the cable that meets the chassis of the mouse.


----------



## Melan

Coolio. They also ship to EU and total price is still lower than ones from china. When I'm back gonna place an order.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Coolio. They also ship to EU and total price is still lower than ones from china. When I'm back gonna place an order.


oh and another bonus for this cable. When it came to me earlier today it was a nice surprise to find out the PIN arrangement on it is the same as the logitech G303, so no need to re-arrange the pin headers on the connector.


----------



## Melan

They are onto you. Run.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191138230522?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> That is the one i purchased. Its nice too since the seller is in USA, got to me in 2 days.
> 
> I will warn you that you will have to snip off some rubber from the part of the cable that meets the chassis of the mouse.


i also would like to buy this cable is that hard to install into g303?


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> logitech logic: it has a normal office shape therefore its low end, am010 500hz only!


All they have to to is update with 3366 or gyroscope/accelerometer (like G402) and I'll be perfectly happy.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> i also would like to buy this cable is that hard to install into g303?


Not hard at all just time consuming.

It took me about 2 hours to get done with everything but at least 90% of that time was stripping and unbraiding the cable.

If you dont want to take the time to unbraid the cable then i cant see the mod taking more than 20 minutes.

These are the steps I did :

1.) remove mouse feet
2.) unscrew 3 black screws (2 top, 1 bottom)
3.) carefully separate top half from bottom half of mouse chassis

you will now be looking at the mouse PCB

4.) unscrew 3 silver screws clearly marked on PCB.

now the PCB will be free from chassis

5.) Using a extremely small micro screw driver (flat head) , pry the original mouse cable loose from the socket.
6.) connect new DA cable
7.) Reverse all steps and reassemble.

It is very simple really. Not hard at all.

I would recommend before you start to have a fresh set of mouse feet available . The OEM ones are not reusable.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Not hard at all just time consuming.
> 
> It took me about 2 hours to get done with everything but at least 90% of that time was stripping and unbraiding the cable.
> 
> If you dont want to take the time to unbraid the cable then i cant see the mod taking more than 20 minutes.
> 
> These are the steps I did :
> 
> 1.) remove mouse feet
> 2.) unscrew 3 black screws (2 top, 1 bottom)
> 3.) carefully separate top half from bottom half of mouse chassis
> 
> you will now be looking at the mouse PCB
> 
> 4.) unscrew 3 silver screws clearly marked on PCB.
> 
> now the PCB will be free from chassis
> 
> 5.) Using a extremely small micro screw driver (flat head) , pry the original mouse cable loose from the socket.
> 6.) connect new DA cable
> 7.) Reverse all steps and reassemble.
> 
> It is very simple really. Not hard at all.
> 
> I would recommend before you start to have a fresh set of mouse feet available . The OEM ones are not reusable.


Make a cable from scratch. Just as hard but MUCH better result.


----------



## Z Overlord

so ever since I got back into a few weeks ago csgo, I've been notice I often accidentally scroll down somehow with this mouse. This never happened before, and I am wondering if it's just my fingers doing some funny movement or if my scrollwheel has gotten too sensitive. Is this a known thing with this mouse?


----------



## jaffa2843

Can you replicate this bug?


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> Not hard at all just time consuming.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 2 hours to get done with everything but at least 90% of that time was stripping and unbraiding the cable.
> 
> If you dont want to take the time to unbraid the cable then i cant see the mod taking more than 20 minutes.
> 
> These are the steps I did :
> 
> 1.) remove mouse feet
> 2.) unscrew 3 black screws (2 top, 1 bottom)
> 3.) carefully separate top half from bottom half of mouse chassis
> 
> you will now be looking at the mouse PCB
> 
> 4.) unscrew 3 silver screws clearly marked on PCB.
> 
> now the PCB will be free from chassis
> 
> 5.) Using a extremely small micro screw driver (flat head) , pry the original mouse cable loose from the socket.
> 6.) connect new DA cable
> 7.) Reverse all steps and reassemble.
> 
> It is very simple really. Not hard at all.
> 
> I would recommend before you start to have a fresh set of mouse feet available . The OEM ones are not reusable
> 
> 
> .


thanks for the info while i was searching for a good cable i decided to go with @CeeSA custom one.I think its the best choice ,will share my experience.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> thanks for the info while i was searching for a good cable i decided to go with @CeeSA custom one.I think its the best choice ,will share my experience.


I would LOVE to try his cable, unfortunately just dont have that extra cash at the moment.

Please update with your thoughts when you receive it and install it!


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Can you replicate this bug?


NVM, I did it...


----------



## TheGMT

I bought a couple a while back. They're an absolute revelation.

In future, if I buy another mouse, a CeeSA cable will be bought to accompany it EVERY time. Just like hyperglides, there's just no comparison to the stuff the manufacturer gives you. It's super light. Super flexible. Doesn't get tangled. Doesn't drag on any mouse surface I use. The best cable there is by some margin.


----------



## trism

I have to confirm that the loose lens causing issues is a valid concern. I guess the amount can vary though. The first one I tried it didn't really move the cursor, this other one certainly does. The cursor jumps ~10 pixels @ 400 CPI when shaking the mouse while holding a small piece of a plastic pad on the sensor area. The cursor always stabilizes to the same position though and it happens with a very slight shaking too.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> I have to confirm that the loose lens causing issues is a valid concern. I guess the amount can vary though. The first one I tried it didn't really move the cursor, this other one certainly does. The cursor jumps ~10 pixels @ 400 CPI when shaking the mouse while holding a small piece of a plastic pad on the sensor area. The cursor always stabilizes to the same position though and it happens with a very slight shaking too.


You should try with tape stuck over the sensor area. The way you word that it sounds like human error could be involved.


----------



## pixie99

Is the sensor rattling still an issue for the current batch sold on Amazon?

Tempted to buy it but would like to hear from others who have purchased it recently.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pixie99*
> 
> Is the sensor rattling still an issue for the current batch sold on Amazon?
> 
> Tempted to buy it but would like to hear from others who have purchased it recently.


it doens't annoy me, but I can see it becoming louder in the future, bough it 2 weeks ago by the way.
it's really not an issue I would have to 1. specifically positioned the mouse diagonally 2. shake it hard for it to rattle 3. the cable does more sound than the rattle.


----------



## EarlZ

Im planning to get the mouse soon, has logitech addressed the sensor rattle issue? I not a low sensitivity player so that might not affect me that much but will it affect the tracking if the sensor rattles ?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EarlZ*
> 
> Im planning to get the mouse soon, has logitech addressed the sensor rattle issue? I not a low sensitivity player so that might not affect me that much but will it affect the tracking if the sensor rattles ?


the issue still persists from batch to batch


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> NVM, I did it...


How? That stuff's mighty cool.


----------



## Melan

To solve rattle issue, Logitech will have to alter lens attachment to sensor, which I doubt they will do any time soon. Last time I checked, lens is attached with either 2 or 4 thin plastic posts which can be easily broken when mouse is assembled.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> How? That stuff's mighty cool.


It's pretty easy tbh.
Link

The only problem is that you can't save these setting into the mouse itself.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VagueRant*
> 
> You should try with tape stuck over the sensor area. The way you word that it sounds like human error could be involved.


I don't think tape works that well since it will be closer to the sensor (too close when it comes to the specification) than a surface like this. There was literally no chance for it to move or have a human error. Also, I tried it with a G303 that has a fixed lens and it doesn't move a single pixel.


----------



## sprite08

Perform g100s (with len of rival 100) on the paint is better g502 and g303


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sprite08*
> 
> 
> Perform g100s (with len of rival 100) on the paint is better g502 and g303


Now in English if I may ask.


----------



## wareya

"g100s performance with rival 100 lense on ms paint is better than g502 and g303"


----------



## Creo

So I just got one of these.



Came from a G9x, I'm fingertip occasional claw gripper. I've yet to game on it so my experience is only within the desktop environment so far.

Likes:

Feels accurate
Sensor tuning is great
Fits within my hand comfortably, couldn't do that with the g9x
Scroll wheel is nice, I had worries coming from the g9x I wouldn't find anything quite as good, granted it is not the same but it does not feel cheap either. The click is more satisfying than the mush of my g9x when pressing down.
Side buttons are nice and clicky, the g9x ones were mushy.
Left and right buttons give a satisfying feeling, the feedback feels slightly quicker than the g9x but then again I've had the g9x since release so it may be tired.
The cord is much better than my g9x, it isn't as rigid but it is slightly thicker. I don't feel the same tension on it as the g9x








Feels slightly lighter than the g9x but the difference is negligible, the weight is comfortable.
Glides on the surface of my cloth mat equally as well as my g9x

Dislikes:

Lights, I don't need them. They look cool but... I dislike the logo on the top, I am aware you can turn it off.
The shape is kind of odd, my grip is similar to the g9x but somehow slightly different. Can't put my finger on it.
The sides of the mouse with the lights, way too smooth. I would have preferred the texture to be the same around the entire mouse (rough). When I grip with finger tips my thumb and pinky rest on these surfaces and it makes me feel like I'm going to lose control of the mouse. I may stick some rubber tape on it.
I have sensor rattle. I'm going to keep the mouse for a bit and if I like it I'll open it up and fix it, I watched a video on youtube prior to buying this and it looks like a piece of cake.

I'm wondering... why did logitech go with a new shape, why didn't they just create another g9x shape? My only annoyance with the g9x shape is the fact that over time the alternate grips start to wobble which in turn will affect your accuracy.

Btw I bought a g502 on release, whilst it felt nice in most ways... It just felt too heavy (even pulling out all of the weights) and too long, I couldn't grip it in the way I was used to with the g9x.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sprite08*
> 
> 
> Perform g100s (with len of rival 100) on the paint is better g502 and g303


Pictures of the swap?


----------



## qsxcv

weird... the 3050 and am010 are supposed to use the same lens


----------



## 4IndividualInks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creo*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So I just got one of these.
> 
> 
> 
> Came from a G9x, I'm fingertip occasional claw gripper. I've yet to game on it so my experience is only within the desktop environment so far.
> 
> Likes:
> 
> Feels accurate
> Sensor tuning is great
> Fits within my hand comfortably, couldn't do that with the g9x
> Scroll wheel is nice, I had worries coming from the g9x I wouldn't find anything quite as good, granted it is not the same but it does not feel cheap either. The click is more satisfying than the mush of my g9x when pressing down.
> Side buttons are nice and clicky, the g9x ones were mushy.
> Left and right buttons give a satisfying feeling, the feedback feels slightly quicker than the g9x but then again I've had the g9x since release so it may be tired.
> The cord is much better than my g9x, it isn't as rigid but it is slightly thicker. I don't feel the same tension on it as the g9x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feels slightly lighter than the g9x but the difference is negligible, the weight is comfortable.
> Glides on the surface of my cloth mat equally as well as my g9x
> 
> Dislikes:
> 
> Lights, I don't need them. They look cool but... I dislike the logo on the top, I am aware you can turn it off.
> The shape is kind of odd, my grip is similar to the g9x but somehow slightly different. Can't put my finger on it.
> The sides of the mouse with the lights, way too smooth. I would have preferred the texture to be the same around the entire mouse (rough). When I grip with finger tips my thumb and pinky rest on these surfaces and it makes me feel like I'm going to lose control of the mouse. I may stick some rubber tape on it.
> I have sensor rattle. I'm going to keep the mouse for a bit and if I like it I'll open it up and fix it, I watched a video on youtube prior to buying this and it looks like a piece of cake.
> 
> I'm wondering... why did logitech go with a new shape, why didn't they just create another g9x shape? My only annoyance with the g9x shape is the fact that over time the alternate grips start to wobble which in turn will affect your accuracy.
> 
> Btw I bought a g502 on release, whilst it felt nice in most ways... It just felt too heavy (even pulling out all of the weights) and too long, I couldn't grip it in the way I was used to with the g9x.


Pls, I'm still rocking my LogiPro G9:




I bought 7 Protech G9's, 7 or 8 years ago, so I'm set for life. Unless Logitech decides to stop making space ship looking mice and get back to normal shapes for normal human beings.

I almost forgot. I also bought a G303 like 4 or 5 months ago...? And it felt just exactly like my G9, and also felt exactly like any other mouse i've ever used. The shape is all that matters, really. Unless you play with a very low sens, so you would benefit from a sensor with higher malfunction speed.


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> weird... the 3050 and am010 are supposed to use the same lens


Rival 100 has a different lens than the regular A3050 mice.


----------



## Creo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4IndividualInks*
> 
> Pls, I'm still rocking my LogiPro G9:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought 7 Protech G9's, 7 or 8 years ago, so I'm set for life. Unless Logitech decides to stop making space ship looking mice and get back to normal shapes for normal human beings.
> 
> I almost forgot. I also bought a G303 like 4 or 5 months ago...? And it felt just exactly like my G9, and also felt exactly like any other mouse i've ever used. The shape is all that matters, really. Unless you play with a very low sens, so you would benefit from a sensor with higher malfunction speed.


Put the alcohol down


----------



## 4IndividualInks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creo*
> 
> Put the alcohol down


Haha, no no







. I sanded it down to put a ptfe square at the bottom of the mouse that covered it completely. I don't have any pic of it, but it sucked a lot after 2 or 3 weeks.


----------



## ozzy1925

today, when surfing with slow mouse whell scroll speeds i realised web pages doesnt move ,that means i have a problem with the mouse wheel and is that a common problem with g303?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> today, when surfing with slow mouse whell scroll speeds i realised web pages doesnt move ,that means i have a problem with the mouse wheel and is that a common problem with g303?


Only if its extremely slow. The mouse ignores very slow rotation of the wheel.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Only if its extremely slow. The mouse ignores very slow rotation of the wheel.


yea i think its because of being slow because i just tested it with my g402 it does the same but weird thing is my m175 doesnt do such thing btw g402 and g303 uses same wheel?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> yea i think its because of being slow because i just tested it with my g402 it does the same but weird thing is my m175 doesnt do such thing btw g402 and g303 uses same wheel?


Nothing to do with the wheel actually. It has more to do with the firmware and the logic in the mouse. It basically measures the time between the trigger, and if it hasnt received another trigger after a certain timeout just ignores the scroll.

Its ghost scroll protection


----------



## qsxcv

i thought i was the only one frustrated by this.

imo logitech's timeout is too aggressive


----------



## EarlZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4IndividualInks*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Creo*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> So I just got one of these.
> 
> 
> 
> Came from a G9x, I'm fingertip occasional claw gripper. I've yet to game on it so my experience is only within the desktop environment so far.
> 
> Likes:
> 
> Feels accurate
> Sensor tuning is great
> Fits within my hand comfortably, couldn't do that with the g9x
> Scroll wheel is nice, I had worries coming from the g9x I wouldn't find anything quite as good, granted it is not the same but it does not feel cheap either. The click is more satisfying than the mush of my g9x when pressing down.
> Side buttons are nice and clicky, the g9x ones were mushy.
> Left and right buttons give a satisfying feeling, the feedback feels slightly quicker than the g9x but then again I've had the g9x since release so it may be tired.
> The cord is much better than my g9x, it isn't as rigid but it is slightly thicker. I don't feel the same tension on it as the g9x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feels slightly lighter than the g9x but the difference is negligible, the weight is comfortable.
> Glides on the surface of my cloth mat equally as well as my g9x
> 
> Dislikes:
> 
> Lights, I don't need them. They look cool but... I dislike the logo on the top, I am aware you can turn it off.
> The shape is kind of odd, my grip is similar to the g9x but somehow slightly different. Can't put my finger on it.
> The sides of the mouse with the lights, way too smooth. I would have preferred the texture to be the same around the entire mouse (rough). When I grip with finger tips my thumb and pinky rest on these surfaces and it makes me feel like I'm going to lose control of the mouse. I may stick some rubber tape on it.
> I have sensor rattle. I'm going to keep the mouse for a bit and if I like it I'll open it up and fix it, I watched a video on youtube prior to buying this and it looks like a piece of cake.
> 
> I'm wondering... why did logitech go with a new shape, why didn't they just create another g9x shape? My only annoyance with the g9x shape is the fact that over time the alternate grips start to wobble which in turn will affect your accuracy.
> 
> Btw I bought a g502 on release, whilst it felt nice in most ways... It just felt too heavy (even pulling out all of the weights) and too long, I couldn't grip it in the way I was used to with the g9x.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pls, I'm still rocking my LogiPro G9:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought 7 Protech G9's, 7 or 8 years ago, so I'm set for life. Unless Logitech decides to stop making space ship looking mice and get back to normal shapes for normal human beings.
> 
> I almost forgot. I also bought a G303 like 4 or 5 months ago...? And it felt just exactly like my G9, and also felt exactly like any other mouse i've ever used. The shape is all that matters, really. Unless you play with a very low sens, so you would benefit from a sensor with higher malfunction speed.
Click to expand...

I love the G9 form factor and how even the click feel is on the entire button. I should have bought that many too


----------



## ozzy1925

Can you tell if i do correct way of rattle test?
Cut some piece from my mouse pad and stick to the mouse with a tape :


----------



## Melan

Hold the buttons, shake the mouse. No audible rattling? Congrats, sensor is attached as it supposed to be.

For cursor to actually move with this method, lens posts have to be broken.


----------



## ozzy1925

i did the hold the buttons but hear a little noise and not sure about the problem but i did the same test with g402 and cursor doesnt move
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Hold the buttons, shake the mouse. No audible rattling? Congrats, sensor is attached as it supposed to be.
> 
> For cursor to actually move with this method, lens posts have to be broken.


----------



## Melan

Well if it affects your aim or w/e just fix it with 2-side tape. If you're fine as it is, just carry on and don't bother taking the mouse apart.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> Can you tell if i do correct way of rattle test?
> Cut some piece from my mouse pad and stick to the mouse with a tape :


Are you out of your effin mind? Just cover the hole with a piece of tape or whatever... actually you know what go ahead and cut your mouse pad... wait, omg you actually did it


----------



## daunow

Well the rattling just got worst...Guess it's time to return it.. I really liked it though.


----------



## lainx

Just received the mouse. Is there any downside in installing the software? Any upside? Like is there any important firmware updates that changes things for the better?
Mine's from batch 1513 and it rattles like crazy. Haven't used it enough to see if it causes issues yet. Will be using it for a couple of days to see how i like the shape (although going from the avior 7000 the difference is jarring to say the least).
The cable sucks as others have mentioned. If i like it i'll be fixating the sensor, changing cable and get some other feet.
Anything else i should check?

EDIT:
What's the default dpi steps from scratch w/o software installed? 400/800/1600/something unusable?

Thanks!


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lainx*
> 
> Just received the mouse. Is there any downside in installing the software? Any upside? Like is there any important firmware updates that changes things for the better?
> Mine's from batch 1513 and it rattles like crazy. Haven't used it enough to see if it causes issues yet. Will be using it for a couple of days to see how i like the shape (although going from the avior 7000 the difference is jarring to say the least).
> The cable sucks as others have mentioned. If i like it i'll be fixating the sensor, changing cable and get some other feet.
> Anything else i should check?
> 
> EDIT:
> What's the default dpi steps from scratch w/o software installed? 400/800/1600/something unusable?
> 
> Thanks!


Why wouldn't you use the software? if you don't like it here is what to do.

Install
set settings
uninstall

Hell you can keep it install and remove it from the startup, and only use it if you need it.

also yes it is those 3's IIRC, though I do think it's also 800/1600/3200.

Oh yeah forgot to say you can also change them on the software.


----------



## chr1spe

Default is 400/800/1600/3200 1000hz and I believe it goes back to 400dpi on restarts by default. AFAIK there is no downside to the software and I don't see anyway at all there would be a downside if you simply change the settings and do not run the program or uninstall it afterword. I run the software because I use my g430's virtual surround sound setting which requires the logitech software, but otherwise I probably would have just run it once to change the settings and not run it again. I don't think there has been a firmware update in a while.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Are you out of your effin mind? Just cover the hole with a piece of tape or whatever... actually you know what go ahead and cut your mouse pad... wait, omg you actually did it


well i did a mouse simulation other than just a test.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> well i did a mouse simulation other than just a test.


TBH I thought about doing the same thing because I have a small piece of mouse pad that was on the box of my Roccat Taito control so you could feel the texture in the store. I thought even taped down the piece of mouse pad may move a bit though unless you taped it down really securely and I didn't want to get tape residue all over my mouse.

Edit: Just tried it actually and I was getting some slight cursor movement at first, but then I secured the piece of mat better and there was none. My mouse rattles a bit, but isn't really loud or anything. You have to be looking for it to hear it.


----------



## Melan

Regarding cable stuff, if you were to put unbraided DA cable or zowie FK1 cable, which would you use? I have 2 zowie cables atm, so maybe I should put it instead of waiting for DA cable to arrive.


----------



## illitirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Can you replicate this bug?


I tried to....but cant....teach me how to do it sensei!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Regarding cable stuff, if you were to put unbraided DA cable or zowie FK1 cable, which would you use? I have 2 zowie cables atm, so maybe I should put it instead of waiting for DA cable to arrive.


I actually have a FK2 right next to me along with the G303 with DA cable (unbraided).

The zowie cable is very good, but DA cable unbraided is lighter and a tad bit thinner.

I would say if your not going to unbraid the DA cable then the zowie one is possibly better. But imo, unbraided DA cable > zowie Fk cable.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> I tried to....but cant....teach me how to do it sensei!


https://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/Custom-Zone-Colors-Effects-Including-Lock-Screen/td-p/1438886


----------



## Melan

Just received my DA cable. God damn this thing is amazing.


----------



## Creo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Just received my DA cable. God damn this thing is amazing.


What's wrong with the original cable?


----------



## Melan

Thick, stiff and tends to get in the way.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Thick, stiff and tends to get in the way.


Come on dude, this isn't the place to humblebrag about your anatomical struggles.


----------



## Melan

Hey, it isn't nice when it starts dangling left and right during fast swipes. Whipping sound it makes when it hits my second monitor... ugh.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Hey, it isn't nice when it starts dangling left and right during fast swipes. Whipping sound it makes when it hits my second monitor... ugh.


Easy. Sell the secont monitor, duh..


----------



## KanoSet

i have a deathadder chroma and i thought if i just took the cable from it and put it in my - future - g303 it would be much less expensive cuz shipping and stuff
but on the DA cable on ebay that was linked it says "*incompatible for Deathadder 4g/ Deathadder 2013".. so will my deathadder chroma cable work fine or there will be problems :\


----------



## jtl999

Probably pin arrangement problem.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I'll be reviewing and comparing the mouse to the EC2-A and DA 2013. Any specific things u want to see in the video?


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I'll be reviewing and comparing the mouse to the EC2-A and DA 2013. Any specific things u want to see in the video?


Aren't they almost completely different mouses, and shape...

Also I really want to send mines back cus of rattle but I am so lazy.. and there is no mouse in the market that seems worth the purchasing. might get the G402, but it just has to many ******* buttons, I know that sniper button is gonna annoy me to no end.....


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Aren't they almost completely different mouses, and shape...
> 
> Also I really want to send mines back cus of rattle but I am so lazy.. and there is no mouse in the market that seems worth the purchasing. might get the G402, but it just has to many ******* buttons, I know that sniper button is gonna annoy me to no end.....


Just fix the rattle yourself. No need to open the mouse either.


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Just fix the rattle yourself. No need to open the mouse either.


can you show how?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> can you show how?


Take a piece of paper (a4 paper, cut a piece approx 3 mm wide and around 5 mm long. Wedge the piece of paper between the lens and body in the sensor hole on the back. Use either an automatic pencil to do this or some other small tool. Make sure the edge of the paper is behind the prism of the lens ( that the paper will not interfere with tracking).

Done. No more rattle


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

having a white q700/b700 keyboard has made me realize that it would be really nice if logitech had all white editions of some of their mice.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> having a white q700/b700 keyboard has made me realize that it would be really nice if logitech had all white editions of some of their mice.


I would only own all white mice if they came in white gloss. The white EC1/2 and AM-FG are nice. I even bought a Kana because it was white.


----------



## qsxcv

well those old white wmo's which turn yellow-ish would make me kind of concerned.
i supposed glossy white coatings are white because of a layer of paint, so that wouldn't be an issue.

related question:
how durable is logitech's coating that is used for the buttons and top shell of the g302/3, g402, g502?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1564886/logitech-g502-users-has-the-finish-warn-off/0_100#post_24169139


----------



## aayman_farzand

I have the G303 and it doesn't really show any signs of wear and tear.


----------



## Melan

Button pieces are pretty durable. As for other top part, I got new G303 which had much rougher finish than early models.


----------



## illitirit

1 month wait my set of hyperglide MX-1 finally came in.

I stacked them on top of hotline gaming competition feet (0.28 mm) thin version.

Its so perfect on my artisan raiden. No plastic drag, feels like im gliding on air. The hyperglides are SOO much better than hotline gaming feet. Im done with mouses for now.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Hey does anyone else have a problem with the right side the mouse body flexing? I guess it's from how hard I grip the mouse, but where I put my thumb makes a noise and noticeably flexes inward. Is this bad for the mouse and is there any way to fix it?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Hey does anyone else have a problem with the right side the mouse body flexing? I guess it's from how hard I grip the mouse, but where I put my thumb makes a noise and noticeably flexes inward. Is this bad for the mouse and is there any way to fix it?


I just squeezed the mouse sides fairly hard and don't notice a flex. By the way if you're 'deathgripping' you may want to loosen that up or lower your sensitivity in-game. If you feel the need to hold your mouse super tight to aim then your sensitivity is not for you or you need to work on controlling it with a more loosened grip

As for the flexing - no idea, don't have that problem


----------



## bobsacamano86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I just squeezed the mouse sides fairly hard and don't notice a flex. By the way if you're 'deathgripping' you may want to loosen that up or lower your sensitivity in-game. If you feel the need to hold your mouse super tight to aim then your sensitivity is not for you or you need to work on controlling it with a more loosened grip
> 
> As for the flexing - no idea, don't have that problem


I'm not using a g303 but I find myself gripping mice too tight. I was thinking of raising my sensitivity so I wouldn't have to move it as much. I'd think if I lowered it, I'd be swiping more and have to hold it even tighter.


----------



## hotwheels1997

What's wrong about "deathgripping"? I almost always grip my mice suuuper tightly. I do that with everything (when I hold a pen ,for example. I hold it so tightly as if my life depends on it)


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> What's wrong about "deathgripping"? I almost always grip my mice suuuper tightly. I do that with everything (when I hold a pen ,for example. I hold it so tightly as if my life depends on it)


Causes pain down the road if you don't get cramps as it is, if I try to grip anything really hard it hurts my fingers/wrist after just a few moments.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Causes pain down the road if you don't get cramps as it is, if I try to grip anything really hard it hurts my fingers/wrist after just a few moments.


I can confirm it causes immense pain in my entire hand while handwriting ,but It doesn't really hurt when using a mouse. Now that i've switched my grip to a claw, my grip is actually looser than before.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> What's wrong about "deathgripping"? I almost always grip my mice suuuper tightly. I do that with everything (when I hold a pen ,for example. I hold it so tightly as if my life depends on it)


Everything.
Its inefficienct.
Its painful.
And you will most likely get some form of RSI/stiffness after a year (can confirm personally)
And it reduces your APM because a stiff muscle is a slow muscle


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Everything.
> Its inefficienct.
> Its painful.
> And you will most likely get some form of RSI/stiffness after a year (can confirm personally)
> And it reduces your APM because a stiff muscle is a slow muscle


Weird, I tense up my grip when I want to get a very accurate shot. I go from normal claw to a very aggressive one .
I used to have a very tight palm grip before and the somewhat relaxed claw I use now improved my consistency though.


----------



## Alya

If you have to grip your mouse really hard for better accuracy/tracking, it's possible that your sensitivity is too high for you, back when I was new to the PC (not implying you are, don't get the wrong idea here.) I used to use a really high sensitivity and a death grip on my DA to be accurate, I lowered it and my grip naturally relaxed more.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If you have to grip your mouse really hard for better accuracy/tracking, it's possible that your sensitivity is too high for you, back when I was new to the PC (not implying you are, don't get the wrong idea here.) I used to use a really high sensitivity and a death grip on my DA to be accurate, I lowered it and my grip naturally relaxed more.


My dexterity could be bad,but I can't go lower than 52cm/360. 400dpi @ 2.0 in-game, I have difficulties making micro adjustments which destroy my aim in pistol rounds but I can't do much about it besides lower my sens to 70ish cm/360,but that'll render my entry fragging ability useless. Are all these issues showing that I need a lower sens?


----------



## zaQon

RIP Englando. Man its showing you are a bit being dumb. I did this adventure not long ago lowered my sens to 65cm couldnt win anything for month then adjusted. But in the end it doesn't even matter. Its just a slump and you think- oh i need to lower my sens like all that pros so I will progress, but there are pros with 1400 edpi, your cm/360 doesnt make u better or worse its just cons and pluses. Use what you use and don't change it. Its not about dexterity its a habit thing. Just understand what your sens is good for and use it for advantage. Practice and Grind makes perfect not calculating perfect sens because there are no such thing. Constant sens also helps determine your mood like if u are overshooting u know u are too pumped and so on. I know that changing sensitivity helps grinding, oh i'm gonna try new sens and grind bots for hours easily, but it will make it worse. Next day you like **** it i adjusted already, no need to practice. Also you can always try 800dpi 1600dpi and 500hz, use fov_cs_debug 1 on local server to test it. I find closer dpi to 1 sens better overall.
Shortly no you don't need a lower sens, just practice more on pistol dm and retakes servers.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zaQon*
> 
> RIP Englando. Man its showing you are a bit being dumb. I did this adventure not long ago lowered my sens to 65cm couldnt win anything for month then adjusted. But in the end it doesn't even matter. Its just a slump and you think- oh i need to lower my sens like all that pros so I will progress, but there are pros with 1400 edpi, your cm/360 doesnt make u better or worse its just cons and pluses. Use what you use and don't change it. Its not about dexterity its a habit thing. Just understand what your sens is good for and use it for advantage. Practice and Grind makes perfect not calculating perfect sens because there are no such thing. Constant sens also helps determine your mood like if u are overshooting u know u are too pumped and so on. I know that changing sensitivity helps grinding, oh i'm gonna try new sens and grind bots for hours easily, but it will make it worse. Next day you like **** it i adjusted already, no need to practice. Also you can always try 800dpi 1600dpi and 500hz, use fov_cs_debug 1 on local server to test it. I find closer dpi to 1 sens better overall.
> Shortly no you don't need a lower sens, just practice more on pistol dm and retakes servers.


You could use a bit of decency and proper behavior and not call me certain things before you know the whole story. I'm perfectly aware changing sens won't make me a better player and I won't do it either, I was just responding to Alya's post. I actually use 800dpi @ 1.038 which is the my perfect sens . I have difficulties making small adjustments because I simply can't move my mouse in such small increments. Can that be improved by practice? Definitely, but it sure as hell doesn't come naturally and as easy as pistol rounds on lower sens.


----------



## Alya

You don't need a lower sensitivity as the other poster said, I was simply pointing out that your sensitivity might be too high for you if you have to death grip your mouse hard to get good accuracy, as has been posted earlier doing things like that is strenuous and can cause RSI down the road.


----------



## CorruptBE

Death grip + Logitech hard edges and pointy ends = Pain

His sens isn't that high actually. I recon he'd be better off looking at ways to improve his comfort (shape!!) rather then change his settings.

Look for "smooth" and "simple" shapes (Zowie, Some Razer models, Some SS Mice, ... avoid Mionix Avior, front has hard edges).

Luckily for me my vice like grip only focuses on 2 specific fingers, which kind of "tighten" once locked onto a target, with the rest of my hand being more loose.

My sens is slightly faster then his, approximately ~1100 dpi if we were to convert it to sens 1.0. Also look into pads with lower static friction.

Even though my maximum potential is better with other mice, I keep going back to my FK2 because it's simply the best compromise between comfort/performance at the time being. And it will remain so till 3360 mice with similar shapes hit the market.

Better comfort will make you more consistent. Don't always look at the maximum potential, but look at the maximum consistent performance you can achieve.


----------



## Pa12a

Honestly, people still think too much about the sensor in this thing and are trying to force themselves into using the G303...

I had 2 of my IRL friends looking at me blasting away with a G303, being someone who's had several mouses without complaints when it came to shape as I'm very flexible and no mouse having caused pain yet, thinking if I would be able to use it then they could too.

They instantly returned it..

Even though I play at 1 sens and 1400 CPI in CS (3.5 @ 400 / 29.8cm per 360) I never had trouble with it since the first day I got the mouse. It's comfortable for me because my palm goes right against the back of the mouse and the way I put my thumb and ring/pinky finger to the sides that basically make the sharp edge at either side nonexistent for me.

If I wasn't fine with the G303 I would be just as fine with a DM1 or a Zowie FK, no doubt.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Death grip + Logitech hard edges and pointy ends = Pain
> 
> His sens isn't that high actually. I recon he'd be better off looking at ways to improve his comfort (shape!!) rather then change his settings.
> 
> Look for "smooth" and "simple" shapes (Zowie, Some Razer models, Some SS Mice, ... avoid Mionix Avior, front has hard edges).
> 
> Luckily for me my vice like grip only focuses on 2 specific fingers, which kind of "tighten" once locked onto a target, with the rest of my hand being more loose.
> 
> My sens is slightly faster then his, approximately ~1100 dpi if we were to convert it to sens 1.0. Also look into pads with lower static friction.
> 
> Even though my maximum potential is better with other mice, I keep going back to my FK2 because it's simply the best compromise between comfort/performance at the time being. And it will remain so till 3360 mice with similar shapes hit the market.
> 
> Better comfort will make you more consistent. Don't always look at the maximum potential, but look at the maximum consistent performance you can achieve.


I use a Zowie EC2-A. I'm posting here ,because i've been following this thread for a while. With my small hand, If I use a super relaxed claw on the EC2-A, I won't be able to lift it without dropping it. Had previous experiences with the G303 ,all of which ended up with a return . I used to use palm grip back then,so my experience now would probably be different. I have much easier time to do micro adjustments with my Deathadder,because the feet glide so easily,as if there is no friction whatsoever. I'm using TigerGaming Takasta's feet on it. Do all of his feet use the same material ,because I could swap my default ones for one of his on my EC2-A?
I use also a QCK+ which i've read is a high friction mouse pad,which doesn't seem believable to me, because the DA glides like butter. The EC2-A feels as if it's somewhat glued ,compared to it.


----------



## Dylan Nails

i can confirm qck is ridiculously high friction


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> i can confirm qck is ridiculously high friction


Compared to Goliathus Control?


----------



## CorruptBE

Do you have small hands? Because otherwise, simply losing a grip (lifting and dropping it) like that could actually be a first sign of RSI (loss of strength in fingers).


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Do you have small hands? Because otherwise, simply losing a grip (lifting and dropping it) like that could actually be a first sign of RSI (loss of strength in fingers).


17cm hand. It's as big as my gf's hand. I have a lot of strenght in my hands, I train rock climbing. + I don't mean dropping the mouse, the back of it just drops a bit,because I don't have a hand contact there. My palm is usually resting on the mouse and when I lift and I hold the mouse very lightly, the mouse detaches from my palm.


----------



## Dylan Nails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Compared to Goliathus Control?


compared to goliathus speed/roccat taito its really really slow. compared to mm200 its only a little slower


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> compared to goliathus speed/roccat taito its really really slow. compared to mm200 its only a little slower


Wow,didn't expect the Goliathus to be that much faster. I've read the control is even faster than the speed. Might look into one after my wear out my QCK+


----------



## ChaosLike

Are there any official statements from logitech that sensor rattle has been fixed? And would u recommend buying it now?


----------



## NeonFlak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChaosLike*
> 
> Are there any official statements from logitech that sensor rattle has been fixed? And would u recommend buying it now?


I just purchased 3 tonight at a Best Buy that got them in on Thur March 3rd. All 3 of them had sensor rattle.


----------



## Melan

I bought one from amazon somewhere in the end of February and it doesn't rattle.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Ive had one for a couple months and finally got around to cable swapping. Had a slight amount of rattle but when i opened it up the sensor was perfect. I think that little side button board has some room to move on my unit.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Swapped my cable with a zowie cable and fixed my sensor rattle a few days ago. Lovely results.


----------



## ChaosLike

Might just buy zowie EC1-A 2016 . I cant believe they still didnt adress this issue with g303.


----------



## Melan

To address it they will have to rework lens attachment to sensor, which isn't easy to do at all.


----------



## CorruptBE

Hard? In what sense?



You'd be surprised at how much glue/tape there is in smartphones these days.


----------



## Melan

You'll have to alter sensor shell, lens design, probably bottom shell of a mouse which has alignment notches. And just don't glue the lens to either sensor case or mouse shell, you'll just destroy the lens.


----------



## CorruptBE

Wouldn't it be easier to just change the mold of the bottom, so it offers more "support (aka tighter seal, more pressure). Then you make a small change in firmware to accomodate for the very tiny change in LOD (as the lens might be a tad more lifted away from the pad).


----------



## CorruptBE

double post.


----------



## Melan

Uhh... No. Changing the mold isn't "easy". The problem is fragility of plastic posts on the lens it self, which should really be looked into because it will keep breaking in later products too. They could make notches "fatter" so the lens would just tightly mount, but it has to be on the sensor for proper alignment.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Wouldn't it be easier to just change the mold of the bottom, so it offers more "support (aka tighter seal, more pressure). Then you make a small change in firmware to accomodate for the very tiny change in LOD (as the lens might be a tad more lifted away from the pad).


People are still buying a ton of G303's and I'm quite sure it's below 0.1% of the buyers who actually use the warranty on the rattling sensor, so they won't rework it. Or if they will it won't come any soon. Literally doesn't worth it for them.


----------



## dope-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> People are still buying a ton of G303's and I'm quite sure it's below 0.1% of the buyers who actually use the warranty on the rattling sensor, so they won't rework it. Or if they will it won't come any soon. Literally doesn't worth it for them.


I purchased a G303 recently from BestBuy. My sensor didn't rattle nor have that pressure-squeezing noise on the sides. I guess I just got lucky.


----------



## ChaosLike

For example Benq took zowie mouses off the market because people reported double clicks. And then they released them this march with the old switches that were working fine. Logitech didnt do anything with this issue. I dont want to buy a product and then hope I get lucky with the lense rattle.


----------



## cainy1991

I got mine a couple days ago no issues with rattle...

Cannot seem to get it to track correctly though, I assume it has something to do with the surface tuning... fails half of the attempts to tune it.. when it succeeds its MUCH worse than stock.


----------



## the1freeMan

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illitirit*
> 
> 1 month wait my set of hyperglide MX-1 finally came in.
> 
> I stacked them on top of hotline gaming competition feet (0.28 mm) thin version.
> 
> Its so perfect on my artisan raiden. No plastic drag, feels like im gliding on air. The hyperglides are SOO much better than hotline gaming feet. Im done with mouses for now.


Remember that you are raising height from 0.6 to 1.08 mm. That will lower your cpi. Using 0.5mm feet was enough to go from 800 to 850cpi.
0.6 hotlines or whatever don't have plastic drag. I'd rather go with that or Hyperglides only to keep height closer to nominal spec.


----------



## rpalmer92

I will be receiving my DM1 Pro today or tomorrow and I daresay it will become my main mouse, so I just wanted to post a quick tribute in remembrance of my trusty G303 and all the good times, the bad times and the feelings of the onset of carpal tunnel that it brought me. Also, just a quick shout out to Logitech for creating one tough mo-fo of a mouse. I experienced some severe gamer rage yesterday whilst versing random idiots in CS:GO MM and I'd just had enough of whiffing my shots; I lifted my mouse towards the sky, mouse in right hand, cord in left and I pulled that sucker so damn hard that I nearly crapped myself and I could not even get the cord to budge from the mouse. The LED stayed as lit as ever, as if to say "how dare you test those puny arms upon my mighty quality control".

You hurt my hand,
You hurt my soul,
I'll remember you,
Whilst using my DM1 Pro.
You are a friend,
You helped me win,
I'll probably end up,
Using you again.
Maybe today,
Maybe tomorrow,
I'm just scared of developing,
Carpal tunnel.
Your clicks are fine,
Your LED shines,
Every time I hold you,
My hand meets its demise.
Oh G303,
My dear old friend,
I will see you,
Around the bend.


----------



## Melan

"See you next week"


----------



## Maximillion

I didn't know dude had bars. Respect.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> feelings of the onset of carpal tunnel that it brought me.




Reminds me of what happened to Zenith's hands when he used the G303.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

My G303 issues were actually caused by a back issue (but I think the low LOD made me hold it in a specific way that caused more issues, specifically the edginess compressed my ring finger more than the other so recovery progress is slower) the cramping was from scoliosis caused by moving one arm far too much







but I am going to recover 90% of full functions if I stick to my PT.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Figure it out when I stopped playing osu


----------



## Melan

Osu hurting it's players has been confirmed. Ban osu.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I regret not learning tablet earlier
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Osu hurting it's players has been confirmed. Ban osu.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Melan

I use mouse exclusively in osu. Tried tabled, but decided I need it for work more than some game. Also sticking to mouse in osu helped my aim a lot in FPS games.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I use mouse exclusively in osu. Tried tabled, but decided I need it for work more than some game. Also sticking to mouse in osu helped my aim a lot in FPS games.


Same
Im glad Im not the only ones thinks that aim in 2D games transfer somewhat to 3D games.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



omg im not crazy


----------



## rpalmer92

Just got my DM1 Pro.

Cya G303. Won't be coming back this time.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Inb4 you come back


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> Just got my DM1 Pro.
> 
> Cya G303. Won't be coming back this time.


#1HourSober


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Inb4 you come back


No way man. I love my G303 -- the clicks, the tracking, the fact that it's just such an ugly duckling yet has provided me so many good times and headshots. I have had enough though. My stats and my hand are paying for it. Time to get used to something more normal and raise my skill ceiling. Also it'll be nice to not have so many obsessive thoughts about "whether my weird grip causing shaky hands caused me to miss that shot" etc.


----------



## Melan

I wonder how the hell my hand is still fine after using G302 for several months then G303 since release.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Possible variables affecting rsi risk:
Play osu: +30% risk
Not take breaks: +30% risk
Bad posture: +30% risk
Bad shape: +10% risk
Being an idiot: +100% risk


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> I will be receiving my DM1 Pro today or tomorrow and I daresay it will become my main mouse, so I just wanted to post a quick tribute in remembrance of my trusty G303 and all the good times, the bad times and the feelings of the onset of carpal tunnel that it brought me. Also, just a quick shout out to Logitech for creating one tough mo-fo of a mouse. I experienced some severe gamer rage yesterday whilst versing random idiots in CS:GO MM and I'd just had enough of whiffing my shots; I lifted my mouse towards the sky, mouse in right hand, cord in left and I pulled that sucker so damn hard that I nearly crapped myself and I could not even get the cord to budge from the mouse. The LED stayed as lit as ever, as if to say "how dare you test those puny arms upon my mighty quality control".
> 
> You hurt my hand,
> You hurt my soul,
> I'll remember you,
> Whilst using my DM1 Pro.
> You are a friend,
> You helped me win,
> I'll probably end up,
> Using you again.
> Maybe today,
> Maybe tomorrow,
> I'm just scared of developing,
> Carpal tunnel.
> Your clicks are fine,
> Your LED shines,
> Every time I hold you,
> My hand meets its demise.
> Oh G303,
> My dear old friend,
> I will see you,
> Around the bend.


I loved this mouse even with it's quirks, think I am gonna go back to ti since I didn't like the EVGA X5, every time I try to aim up close it feels really weird.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Same
> Im glad Im not the only ones thinks that aim in 2D games transfer somewhat to 3D games.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> omg im not crazy


Actually many people think that, at least the few csgo anime players I know that play that game.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Since we're talking about RSIs anyone ever had issues with shoulder looseness (feeling of shoulder not being properly attaching to torso)?


----------



## Maximillion

#ZenithPiccolo


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> #ZenithPiccolo


----------



## Soo8

Go see a doctor before you really fall apart.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Since we're talking about RSIs anyone ever had issues with shoulder looseness (feeling of shoulder not being properly attaching to torso)?


Do you sit with your arm far forwards so your shoulder is kinda forward aswell?
Aka bad posture? Do shoulder dislocations and other mobility exerices and train ur core and back ALOT.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Go see a doctor before you really fall apart.


I'm sure it's just the mouse. /s


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Go see a doctor before you really fall apart.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I'm sure it's just the mouse. /s


I shouldn't be laughing so much at this.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Since we're talking about RSIs anyone ever had issues with shoulder looseness (feeling of shoulder not being properly attaching to torso)?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you sit with your arm far forwards so your shoulder is kinda forward aswell?
> Aka bad posture? Do shoulder dislocations and other mobility exerices and train ur core and back ALOT.
Click to expand...

Yes I actually have scoliosis now because one of my psoas muscles are currently in spasm. I need to get a new chair too.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Go see a doctor before you really fall apart.


I already am but you see doctor copays are expensive. Fortunately I am switching to a new insurance but that does not go into effect until next month


----------



## CorruptBE

Don't visit a doctor, visit an osteopath and take it slow after that for a few days.

I go once every year, otherwise all this gaming and desk related work irl would just mess with my back. It's my yearly "reset" for all my joints and back.


----------



## ozzy1925

well i dont know why people call the g303 an ugly mouse?I really like mine


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Don't visit a doctor, visit an osteopath and take it slow after that for a few days.
> 
> I go once every year, otherwise all this gaming and desk related work irl would just mess with my back. It's my yearly "reset" for all my joints and back.


I plan to see my chiropractor again. Im going to get an ultrasound to check my bursae to make sure there is no fluid build up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> well i dont know why people call the g303 an ugly mouse?I really like mine


It looks like a spaceship. Not everyone wants a product that screams "GAMER" on their desk.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



then again who am I kidding tfw no one to hang out at my place


----------



## CorruptBE

Osteopath is basically a more educated chiropractor though, odds are he can do a lot more.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> It looks like a spaceship. Not everyone wants a product that screams "GAMER" on their desk.


YES and that is why you want to join the elite imaginary space corp, dispensing your version of 'justice and liberty' through out the solar system and beyond







.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Osteopath is basically a more educated chiropractor though, odds are he can do a lot more.


Hopefully my insurance covers it. Are they expensive out of pocket?


----------



## Maximillion

An outright medical discussion in a G303 thread, I can't make this stuff up.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Hopefully my insurance covers it. Are they expensive out of pocket?


€ 45 In my case per appointment. U earn some of it back if you consider money spent on painkilkers.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Hopefully my insurance covers it. Are they expensive out of pocket?
> 
> 
> 
> € 45 In my case per appointment. U earn some of it back if you consider money spent on painkilkers.
Click to expand...

Oh great as a college student I am not in a very good financial situation (no job atm)


----------



## Aventadoor

Its better to go to a manual therapist once or twice then to go to a chiropractor many times.
Chiropractors are kinda hit or miss. Some might get better after a few cracks, but more often they dont.
And they dont fix the issue like a manual therapist, which is an advanced physiotherapist basicly.
Athletes often have manual therapists with them


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> An outright medical discussion in a G303 thread, I can't make this stuff up.


With the shape of the G303 it was bound to happen.

*digital high five


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> I plan to see my chiropractor again. Im going to get an ultrasound to check my bursae to make sure there is no fluid build up.
> It looks like a spaceship. Not everyone wants a product that screams "GAMER" on their desk.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> then again who am I kidding tfw no one to hang out at my place


Well for starters, it has honeycomb transparent sides. That Logitech G gaming logo is also hideous, but it's expected with their new direction at trying to grab the attention of 12 year olds. Anyone remember when Logitech made clean and simplistic products?



Almost all these companies are doing this now. Just look at the corsair logo revision:



This garbage is one reason why I love Zowie. They seem like the only gaming peripherals company that design products for adults that don't want cheesy designs, racing stripes, lights, ridiculous logos, etc.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Well for starters, it has honeycomb transparent sides. That Logitech G gaming logo is also hideous, but it's expected with their new direction at trying to grab the attention of 12 year olds. Anyone remember when Logitech made clean and simplistic products?
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all these companies are doing this now. Just look at the corsair logo revision:
> 
> 
> 
> This garbage is one reason why I love Zowie. They seem like the only gaming peripherals company that design products for adults that don't want cheesy designs, racing stripes, lights, ridiculous logos, etc.


I actually am a fan of the logitech gaming logo "G" on the 303. However iirc they have an even newer version of the gaming G and I am not personally a fan of that one


----------



## xdmcdantex

Hey, just placed an order for my second g303 which hopefully doesn't have sensor rattle. When i had my first one i couldn't figure out how to take apart the mouse without screwing up the front mouse skate. There was a layer of like padding under the skate that was blocking access to the screws, i haven't heard anyone talk about this layer and when i modded my g402 it didn't have this problem. I want to know so i can just fix the sensor rattle myself and maybe swap the mouse cable for something less heavy. Do i just need to scrape this layer off and get new mouse skates? If i do what mouse skates would you guys suggest?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Hey, just placed an order for my second g303 which hopefully doesn't have sensor rattle. When i had my first one i couldn't figure out how to take apart the mouse without screwing up the front mouse skate. There was a layer of like padding under the skate that was blocking access to the screws, i haven't heard anyone talk about this layer and when i modded my g402 it didn't have this problem. I want to know so i can just fix the sensor rattle myself and maybe swap the mouse cable for something less heavy. Do i just need to scrape this layer off and get new mouse skates? If i do what mouse skates would you guys suggest?


As I ve written previously in this thread, sensor rattle can be fixed without opening the mouse.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> As I ve written previously in this thread, sensor rattle can be fixed without opening the mouse.


I know, i saw your post but no matter how i tried to wedge something in there it would not go in.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> I know, i saw your post but no matter how i tried to wedge something in there it would not go in.


My fix has been confirmed on 10+ g303s. So either you paper is too thick, or ou are doing something wrong

Also - if you open the mouse its very easy to skew the panels slightly and the sides will start to play when you grip. Not fun


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> My fix has been confirmed on 10+ g303s. So either you paper is too thick, or ou are doing something wrong
> 
> Also - if you open the mouse its very easy to skew the panels slightly and the sides will start to play when you grip. Not fun


Yeah i'm most likely doing something wrong i just didn't have the patience to figure out the right angle to get it wedged in there. When i tried it the paper just bent and never actually got wedged in anywhere. I tried with thin writing paper, printer paper and thin mac n cheese box cardboard all of which did not work. A picture or better explanation would be awesome so i don't have to deal with the side flex you are talking about because that sounds like a no bueno. Either way thanks for the info, ive been lurking hardcore on this forum for the last couple months ( this is my 3rd post just signed up to ask my originnal question) researching mice and have personally went through about 7 of them and i see a lot of your post and they help a lot.


----------



## Soo8




----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> As I ve written previously in this thread, sensor rattle can be fixed without opening the mouse.


Can you link?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*


You'll need to 'shop casts on their arms.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Can you link?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/5710#post_24934757


----------



## Aventadoor

I was thinking about "modding" my G303 by making the right side wider and not so much camber.
Anyone have a recommended material?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I was thinking about "modding" my G303 by making the right side wider and not so much camber.
> Anyone have a recommended material?


S
U
G
R
U


----------



## hotwheels1997

I'm about to pull the trigger on a second hand G303 from Amazon. There is ,of course, the return policy but I would rather not go through it if shape is fine. Is the sensor rattle really affecting performance and is it really possible to fix it using the A4 paper piece trick?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on a second hand G303 from Amazon. There is ,of course, the return policy but I would rather not go through it if shape is fine. Is the sensor rattle really affecting performance and is it really possible to fix it using the A4 paper piece trick?


Try local stores?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on a second hand G303 from Amazon. There is ,of course, the return policy but I would rather not go through it if shape is fine. Is the sensor rattle really affecting performance and is it really possible to fix it using the A4 paper piece trick?


The sensor rattle is extremely easy to fix. It didn't even bother me but I went ahead and fixed it w/ double-sided tape when I replaced the cable.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Try local stores?


75 euros for a new one in a local store with out a return policy vs 33 euros for a second hand one from the Amazon.de warehouse deals.


----------



## Melan

Wow, what a ripoff. Mediamarkt sells them for like 58 euros.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Wow, what a ripoff. Mediamarkt sells them for like 58 euros.


Just Bulgaria for you








On the other hand, Zowie's are cheap. Got my EC2-A for 50 euros.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 75 euros for a new one in a local store with a return policy vs 33 euros for a second hand one from the Amazon.de warehouse deals.


Amazon is extremely lenient when it comes to returns, regardless of whether you buy it from a third party or not. Im pretty sure their policy doesn't change when buying used products but i have returned third party mice that were considered new multiple times.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> S
> U
> G
> R
> U


Woooo!
Thats really nice! Instant buy!

Thank You sir


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Amazon is extremely lenient when it comes to returns, regardless of whether you buy it from a third party or not. Im pretty sure their policy doesn't change when buying used products but i have returned third party mice that were considered new multiple times.


They confirmed that their 30 day return policy is still in effect,even with Warehouse deals.


----------



## Foclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 75 euros for a new one in a local store with out a return policy vs 33 euros for a second hand one from the Amazon.de warehouse deals.


Just go with Amazon.

Also, I've heard they fixed the rattling issue. Though, it might not be a worldwide fix (maybe just NA for now).


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foclock*
> 
> Just go with Amazon.
> 
> Also, I've heard they fixed the rattling issue. Though, it might not be a worldwide fix (maybe just NA for now).


got 2 from amazon usa ,1 last week and 1 month ago both have rattling


----------



## Foclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> got 2 from amazon usa ,1 last week and 1 month ago both have rattling


Well, never mind then. That's pretty disappointing to hear.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> got 2 from amazon usa ,1 last week and 1 month ago both have rattling


Do you RMA them or just use them with the rattle?


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Do you RMA them or just use them with the rattle?


Fixed 1 myself with double tape and other as is for now


----------



## chr1spe

I'm not sure if mine has the same rattle as everyone else, but mine has absolutely zero effect on the performance of the mouse. The rattle on mine is so faint you have to really be looking for it to notice it though, but it is there and doesn't seem to be from any of the buttons or anything. I tested it using a small piece of mousepad that came on the box for my pad as a sample of the texture taped securely to the bottom. As long as the tape stayed secure and the pad didn't move I got absolutely zero counts no matter how hard I shook the mouse so I'm quite confident at least in my case this has zero effect on the mouse. I tested at 800dpi because that is what I use, but perhaps I should have tried going even higher to see if any DPI would cause a single count, but I doubt it would.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*


Didn't see this until today
I find it hilarious but as the victim I dont know why Im laughing.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Rip collarbone


----------



## Marctraider

So I was under the impression as if I had found the perfect mouse, the G303.

At first rattling sensor issues, fixed it myself with the tape trick.

But now, a one or two months later I'm seriously starting to endure the awkward shape less and less.

Pinky pain, ringfinger strain.... Its f*cked up.

I might take the sides out and put foam in.

Logitech, everything wrong with the G303, take lessons:

- Rattling sensor, no competitive player will ever use it.
- Mouse bottom should never be this small in width, unstable.
- Mouse feet overly complicated, requires small side feet to keep it from wobbling
- Stock feet quality is seriously bad.
- Awkward shape, nobody wants to hold their mouse with their thumb/pinky like this.
- Braided cable looks great, but nobody wants a huge heavy inflexible cable.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> So I was under the impression as if I had found the perfect mouse, the G303.
> 
> At first rattling sensor issues, fixed it myself with the tape trick.
> 
> But now, a one or two months later I'm seriously starting to endure the awkward shape less and less.
> 
> Pinky pain, ringfinger strain.... Its f*cked up.
> 
> I might take the sides out and put foam in.
> 
> Logitech, everything wrong with the G303, take lessons:
> 
> - Rattling sensor, no competitive player will ever use it.
> - Mouse bottom should never be this small in width, unstable.
> - Mouse feet overly complicated, requires small side feet to keep it from wobbling
> - Stock feet quality is seriously bad.
> - Awkward shape, nobody wants to hold their mouse with their thumb/pinky like this.
> - Braided cable looks great, but nobody wants a huge heavy inflexible cable.


You are so right.. :sadface: :-(


----------



## hotwheels1997

If judging by this photo:


The G303 isn't very suitable for Claw, given it's lack of palm support? I find that it works in claw (after testing in store), but is it some sort of a fingertip/claw hybrid in reality,since my palm is resting on the back of the mouse,but lightly,since it doesn't provide as much support as let's say, a Sensei?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Its not a good shape for any grip.
You can grip it but you can't grip it optimally.


----------



## TriviumKM

It's actually made for a very specific claw grip where your palm rests on top of the mouse and slightly off the mousepad rather than on the mousepad itself.

You can use it in other grips, but it wont be nearly as comfortable than the way Logitech intended you to grip it, and thats the sole reason why im still on the mouse hunt (shape didnt hurt my hand, but since i couldnt hold it how i wanted to my aim was affected).


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its not a good shape for any grip.
> You can grip it but you can't grip it optimally.


Plenty of people out there that would disagree with you but I don't want to start another argument about shape ,since it's as subjective as I gets. I find a claw grip on initial impression in store to be comfy with this mouse and a small hand


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Its not a good shape for any grip.
> You can grip it but you can't grip it optimally.
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of people out there that would disagree with you but I don't want to start another argument about shape ,since it's as subjective as I gets. I find a claw grip on initial impression in store to be comfy with this mouse and a small hand
Click to expand...

\
Didnt you say you had hand cramps too?


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozzy1925*
> 
> got 2 from amazon usa ,1 last week and 1 month ago both have rattling


Same here got mines from amazon and had rattle after a while.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Plenty of people out there that would disagree with you but I don't want to start another argument about shape ,since it's as subjective as I gets. *I find a claw grip on initial impression in store to be comfy with this mouse and a small hand*


I to found the shape not that bad when I first got my G303.
But then when the new mice syndrom went away I realized it was garbage.

Have Logitech ever mentioned that its even made for a spesific grip type?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Ive tried a lot of mice and I find the 303 to be the most comfortable for me. And I feel I can aim really well with it as well.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Didnt you say you had hand cramps too?


Once I modified my grip (used to be a heavy palmer) I don't experience them anymore. I have yet to bring it home and play with it ,so that might change. First impression is that the mouse is comfortable for a claw grip.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> The G303 isn't very suitable for Claw, given it's lack of palm support?


Seems much easier to claw than fingertip for me (and i use fingertip 100%)

put simply, it has a pretty fat butt.

Clawing puts the thumb further forward. The main difficulty that i have with fingertip is that the thumb has to be uncomfortably far forward to stay on/ahead of the ridge; it can't grip the area designed for the lighting.


----------



## CrazyNightOwl

Well I'm selling mine, enough finger pain xD Planning to get a Mionix Avior instead which seems to be a modern reincarnation of the Abyssus with a 3310 sensor. Using a self-developed fingertip grip that by the way worked perfectly on the A4tech V3, which is a Deathadder clone, more or less. But the G303 is simply too narrow and I have to cramp my hand in the X direction (given an imaginary XY coordinate space on the table with the Y axis pointing towards the monitor) because I prefer to hold the mouse as far as possible to the front for a finer control over the sensor. As I see it, holding it at the "butt" gives you more leverage when turning the mouse around your wrist (I don't slide, rather rotate the mouse) thus less accuracy.

Wish we had a Mionix Castor available in this marvelous computer parts store here (I live in Russia), though it's still a very lucky coincidence that the Avior is available in my city.

Given the above description, maybe I'm doing something wrong with my grip and mouse control?..


----------



## Aventadoor

I tried improving my G303 with Sugru.
It does improve alot. I could probably refine it even better.
But top of the mice is still too flat for my long fingers.


----------



## kevin-L

My g303 is starting to cause some serious pain and cramping in my ring and pinky fingers. I thought at first that I'd be able to adapt, but after trying many different grip styles over the past 6 months that I've been using it, I think it's time to give up before I cause permanent damage, since the pain and numbness is started to worsen. Anyone know of a mouse with similar weight, a good sensor, and low click latency that won't cause nerve damage to my hand?


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevin-L*
> 
> My g303 is starting to cause some serious pain and cramping in my ring and pinky fingers. I thought at first that I'd be able to adapt, but after trying many different grip styles over the past 6 months that I've been using it, I think it's time to give up before I cause permanent damage, since the pain and numbness is started to worsen. Anyone know of a mouse with similar weight, a good sensor, and low click latency that won't cause nerve damage to my hand?


Such a mouse doesn't exist. Otherwise everybody in this forum would use it.

I love these "i've been putting up with the 303 for a while and it's causing me pain" posts. Hilarious how hated this mouse shape is.


----------



## Melan

I love how people continue to use something that isn't comfortable and causes pain then come into this thread to complain about pain. I need to get my self a DA and spam DA thread how painful it is to use.


----------



## Alya

I actually used to use a G303, it never put me out of my comfort zone because apparently I have hands made of putty and I can grip any mouse without pain, I just didn't like the style of grip because I felt like I had poor control over the mouse.


----------



## hotwheels1997

What is the LOD btw? I'm hoping it's simular to Zowie's ,aka 1.5mm . WIth/without surface calibration?


----------



## chr1spe

I'm pretty happy with my g303, but now that I'm less excited by it I would like to try out a few more mice and on my list are the evga x5 (S3988, 85g, shape looks like it could be nice for me, but 9-10ms click delay vs around 5ms for the g303, 35-45$), the Genius scorpion m6-400/m6-600 (PMW3310 sensor, 93g after removing huge internal weight, abyssus 2014 like shape but a couple cm bigger, no clue on click delay, under 40$), and maybe the azio exo (3320, ~80g with weight removed apparently, shape looks like I might like it might not, click delay within a few ms of g303? http://www.overclock.net/t/1564279/3320-and-3988-on-pixart-website-now/30#post_24170706 , under 20$).


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> What is the LOD btw? I'm hoping it's simular to Zowie's ,aka 1.5mm . WIth/without surface calibration?


LOD is very low on 303. A lot lower than zowie.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> LOD is very low on 303. A lot lower than zowie.


Yeah, I haven't used zowies much, but the g303 lift off couldn't really be lower. I'm using a taito control right now and I actually don't use surface calibration because it seems like it makes the lift off too low, but maybe I just need to do it again. I had a couple of times where it seemed to stop tracking during flicks that don't happen with the default. On this pad the default is actually absurdly low, but not too low. Its more or less if the feet are touching it track, if they aren't it doesn't, but with the calibration it is almost like even if the feet are still touching, but the mouse isn't sitting with weight on the pad it doesn't track.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Yeah, I haven't used zowies much, but the g303 lift off couldn't really be lower. I'm using a taito control right now and I actually don't use surface calibration because it seems like it makes the lift off too low, but maybe I just need to do it again. I had a couple of times where it seemed to stop tracking during flicks that don't happen with the default. On this pad the default is actually absurdly low, but not too low. Its more or less if the feet are touching it track, if they aren't it doesn't, but with the calibration it is almost like even if the feet are still touching, but the mouse isn't sitting with weight on the pad it doesn't track.


Sounds perfect. Awesome.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I tried improving my G303 with Sugru.
> It does improve alot. I could probably refine it even better.
> But top of the mice is still too flat for my long fingers.


lmao


----------



## kevin-L

The thing for me is that at first, at least up until the last week or so, I didn't have any pain while using the mouse It was a bit awkward to hold, but I could game for hours without any aches, cramping, or numbness. But now, in just the past few days, I've started getting really bad pain and occasional numbness in the fingers I use on the right side of the mouse. For some reason, even though I've changed nothing about the way I hold the g303, I've been getting steadily worsening pain that lasts even a while after I stop gaming. I went and dug my g400s out of the closet and have been using it, and despite the technically inferior hardware I seem to be aiming better in-game. I guess that's the difference comfort makes.

Has anyone tried transplanting the g303 internals into a g400s shell? I have two of each so it might be something I could attempt if it seems possible.


----------



## Melan

G400S is double PCB. G303 is single.

G400S has been using same PCB design since MX500. G303 has unique PCB. So no transplanting.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Amazon delaying the dispatch of my order for an unknown reason . C'mon, I'm excited. The weird ergo shapes i've been using so far are just SO not me.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevin-L*
> 
> The thing for me is that at first, at least up until the last week or so, I didn't have any pain while using the mouse It was a bit awkward to hold, but I could game for hours without any aches, cramping, or numbness. But now, in just the past few days, I've started getting really bad pain and occasional numbness in the fingers I use on the right side of the mouse. For some reason, even though I've changed nothing about the way I hold the g303, I've been getting steadily worsening pain that lasts even a while after I stop gaming. I went and dug my g400s out of the closet and have been using it, and despite the technically inferior hardware I seem to be aiming better in-game. I guess that's the difference comfort makes.
> 
> Has anyone tried transplanting the g303 internals into a g400s shell? I have two of each so it might be something I could attempt if it seems possible.


How do you grip your g400s? Is it 3 fingers on top? Can one actually claw the g400s in such a way that the lip doesn't bother you?


----------



## kevin-L

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> How do you grip your g400s? Is it 3 fingers on top? Can one actually claw the g400s in such a way that the lip doesn't bother you?


I palm grip with the g400s even though I claw gripped the g303.


----------



## Maximillion

edit: nvm changed already lmao


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> LOD is very low on 303. A lot lower than zowie.


That's weird, I found that my G303 has a higher LOD than my ZA11 and Rival


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> That's weird, I found that my G303 has a higher LOD than my ZA11 and Rival


If you don't calibrate the surface, the lod is a bit higher.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> That's weird, I found that my G303 has a higher LOD than my ZA11 and Rival


What pad are you on? On my Roccat taito control even the preset for the logitech cloth pad is under 1mm by quite a bit. It is definitely significantly under 1 CD and that is about 1.2mm right? If I had to give my most accurate guess compared to the width of a CD I would actually say at most 1/2 of a CD and probably less. I literally can't imagine lower liftoff without it creating a problem.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> If you don't calibrate the surface, the lod is a bit higher.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> What pad are you on? On my Roccat taito control even the preset for the logitech cloth pad is under 1mm by quite a bit. It is definitely significantly under 1 CD and that is about 1.2mm right? If I had to give my most accurate guess compared to the width of a CD I would actually say at most 1/2 of a CD and probably less. I literally can't imagine lower liftoff without it creating a problem.


I use the HyperX Fury, and I have calibrated for that surface.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> I use the HyperX Fury, and I have calibrated for that surface.


So approximately what is your lift off with the g303, rival, and za11? I can't imagine its actually significantly lower than ~0.5mm. Do a CD test and check if each tracks through the hole in a CD. That only tells you if it is less than 1.2mm or not, but my g303 is much lower than that.


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> So approximately what is your lift off with the g303, rival, and za11? I can't imagine its actually significantly lower than ~0.5mm. Do a CD test and check if each tracks through the hole in a CD. That only tells you if it is less than 1.2mm or not, but my g303 is much lower than that.


I'll do some testing when I get home from work.


----------



## xdmcdantex

So i got 2 g303's with no sensor rattle! But the clicks feel like ass compared to my previous g303. On my first one the left click felt just as crisp as i remembered but the right click was so mushy and just didn't feel at all the same. On my second one both of the clicks feel mushy but they both feel the same. Idk what do, think im gonna go for another replacement and see if i can get better clicks. You guys think that whatever they did to fix the sensor rattle somehow messed with the clicks? I would compare good g303 clicks to that of a mechanical keyboard when you bottom the key out you get a click then a clack when it bottoms out and it feels perfect, but on these 2 that i got it just makes a click noise and kind of just slowly comes to a stop.

Also the main reason im sticking with this mouse is because of the clicks and shape, honestly in testing the sensor actually has more variance then a zowie 3310 sensor. It's not even speed related variance im going slow across a small 20cm mouse pad till the sensor stops tracking and my aim ends at slightly different spots each time i do it . I even tested it with my old g402 i have and the g402 has less variance. I mean its not a huge deal but its interesting considering how perfect this sensor is supposed to be. Or the mouse pad im using is only causing issues on the g303 im not sure.


----------



## Melan

Mushy clicks might be due to exsess glue on button piece "hammer". Logitech glued plastic/glass pad which hits the plunger on the switch, if some of glue got out it might make the button feel mushy/sticky. I got the same problem but I fixed it yesterday when I replaced switches. Just carefully clean the "hammer" below button piece.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Mushy clicks might be due to exsess glue on button piece "hammer". Logitech glued plastic/glass pad which hits the plunger on the switch, if some of glue got out it might make the button feel mushy/sticky. I got the same problem but I fixed it yesterday when I replaced switches. Just carefully clean the "hammer" below button piece.


Idk m8 taking this thing apart seems kinda spooky. I tried to take one apart that had sensor rattle and the front skate had like padding under it that you needed to scrape off, which means i would need a set of replacement feet. Not to mention the warranty voiding. Ill probably end up doing one more replacement then keeping the one that has the least issues and when i get sick of the clicks ill buy a set of replacement skates and fix it myself.


----------



## Melan

It wasn't a padding, just a crappy logitech skate. Get your self a set of hotline 303 skates from takasta and fix whatever is bothering you.

By the way, careful with screws on new g303 batches. Some inner flat screws are nearly impossible to unscrew. They will either break or you'll just scrape the head so badly you will have to dremel it.

Edit: http://www.itaktech.com/products/hotline-games-logitech-g303-mouse-feet-2014-edition


----------



## ozzy1925

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> It wasn't a padding, just a crappy logitech skate. Get your self a set of hotline 303 skates from takasta and fix whatever is bothering you.
> 
> By the way, careful with screws on new g303 batches. Some inner flat screws are nearly impossible to unscrew. They will either break or you'll just scrape the head so badly you will have to dremel it.


Since we are talking about the screws i stripped 2 of them and need new ones ,do you know what size?


----------



## Melan

No clue. I have spares thanks to G402 having buttload of those spread across shell in pointless places.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No clue. I have spares thanks to G402 having buttload of those spread across shell in pointless places.


Lol yeah that thing has like 30 screws in it and 15 of them are pointless. Had to take that thing apart to take out that sniper button. That thing is built like a jigsaw puzzle.


----------



## alexandero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Lol yeah that thing has like 30 screws in it and 15 of them are pointless. Had to take that thing apart to take out that sniper button. That thing is built like a jigsaw puzzle.


I guess thats what happens when the logitech design team are allowed to play with "no budget constraints" so to speak, lack of revisions to streamline down the interior etc. Meanwhile on the other hand razer had barely anything in their old death adders, mostly just a hollow shell. Two very opposite ends of extremes


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> No clue. I have spares thanks to G402 having buttload of those spread across shell in pointless places.


They're for the auto repair mechanism to get that unbreakable build quality


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> By the way, careful with screws on new g303 batches. Some inner flat screws are nearly impossible to unscrew.


Had to buy the set of tiny screwdrivers just for that. Unscrewed without the problems in the end, though.


----------



## Marctraider

Ok so i bought a zowie ec2-a and unfortunately it is not for me. Dont understand me wrong its a great mouse, way better base/feet and even scroll wheel on new model feels more premium. However it feels a bit heavier probably due to the shape, its simply too big for me and the new material used is great but not for my sweaty hands.

Also I think I might have RSI on my hand so perhaps I should just exercise on a frequent basis and the G303 might even be tolerable.

So I've decided to do some G303 modding, so far I've stripped the shielding/rubber off the cable and put the braiding back over the colored wires and glued it back on. Looks as new and ultra flexible!

Furthermore I placed the mouse feet a bit more to the edges of the mouse bottom, I first had to cut away a bit of plastic for that but the results are amazing in terms of stability.

Ive also bought DIY Mouse feet and hoping to cover most of the mouse with two huge mouse skates (curvy) without any sharp edges etc. ill post an update when and if it succeeds









image.jpeg 2040k .jpeg file


Btw the Feet around sensor are just for aesthetics and are only 0.3mm so they dont touch any surface.


----------



## Jeemil89

So, I did some testing about the LOD and comparing it to the Zowie ZA11 and Rival. I said that I felt that my G303 had a higher LOD than those even after i did the surface tuning. Well, it had a higher LOD but I did the surface tuning again and now it's really low, even lower than Zowie. I must have messed up the tuning earlier that caused the high LOD.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Sounds perfect. Awesome.


It may sound awesome to you until you get LOD malfunctions while the feet are still on the pad.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeemil89*
> 
> So, I did some testing about the LOD and comparing it to the Zowie ZA11 and Rival. I said that I felt that my G303 had a higher LOD than those even after i did the surface tuning. Well, it had a higher LOD but I did the surface tuning again and now it's really low, even lower than Zowie. I must have messed up the tuning earlier that caused the high LOD.


Did you try several LOD modes on the Zowie? They have hidden settings if you know the key combo.

But agreed, G303 LOD can defo go lower, i wish however there was a way to manually adjust 'surface tuning' profiles somehow.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It may sound awesome to you until you get LOD malfunctions while the feet are still on the pad.


Since Amazon were kind enough to pay for expedited shipping themselves because of a departure delay, I'll be able to test it out myself first thing tomorrow morning.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Mushy clicks might be due to exsess glue on button piece "hammer". Logitech glued plastic/glass pad which hits the plunger on the switch, if some of glue got out it might make the button feel mushy/sticky. I got the same problem but I fixed it yesterday when I replaced switches. Just carefully clean the "hammer" below button piece.


Hey got my third g303 and it has the most promise yet, right click feels perfect and the left feels tactile but it is a bit sticky like you said. Where as my other ones just felt mushy. So my plan is to take this one apart and fix it, now your saying on the plungers themselves there is glue like residue? Also what thickness of g303 skates are closest to stock or do you suggest getting thicker ones? Thanks m88.


----------



## Marctraider

I own two G303 and both had differences like one had fixed sensor rattle, there were subtle differences in actuation force on the mouse buttons though. Funnily having opened them up fixed it which makes me believe slight fabric differences in platic or too tight mounted parts could be the culprit.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Finally received my copy. Love the shape, the moment I had it in my hand, it felt perfect. Sensor rattle is very small and not affecting tracking. LOD is lower than on my EC2-A, yet it tracks perfectly. Can't wait to play some CS later tonight with it. Cable is awful, any ideas how to manage it before my bungee arrives?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Cable is awful, any ideas how to manage it before my bungee arrives?


I have mine taped to the desk with as much of it as i need + a little more. That doesn't work nearly as well for lowsens FPS play, though.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Finally received my copy. Love the shape, the moment I had it in my hand, it felt perfect. Sensor rattle is very small and not affecting tracking. LOD is lower than on my EC2-A, yet it tracks perfectly. Can't wait to play some CS later tonight with it. Cable is awful, any ideas how to manage it before my bungee arrives?


Secure it like this 

And give it more/less slack depending on how much you move your mouse. It's important that you secure it lined up with the left side of your mouse pad so when you move left it doesn't change the resistance. I used this method for a couple years then got a mouse bungee finally.


----------



## TriviumKM

@hotwheels1997: didn't you buy the g303 multiple times in the past and said you hated it? Did you change your grip preference since then? Just curious as to what changed.

(Couldn't quote for some reason)


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> @hotwheels1997: didn't you buy the g303 multiple times in the past and said you hated it? Did you change your grip preference since then? Just curious as to what changed.
> 
> (Couldn't quote for some reason)


Yes ,indeed. From a firm palm gripper, I became an aggressive claw gripper. Suddently, EC2-A wasn't suitable for me ,while the G303 fits like a glove. Sensor is amazing too, I don't know if it's the sensor or the fact that I don't think about how I grip the mouse but my aim is instantly improved. With ergo mice, I was always changing grips mid game and wasn't focusing enough on the game itself. I think I'll still use the EC2-A in windows, I use a relaxed palm/fingertip that doesn't work with the G303 much. It works, just not as comfortable as with the EC2-A.
Change in my grip:


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Secure it like this
> 
> And give it more/less slack depending on how much you move your mouse. It's important that you secure it lined up with the left side of your mouse pad so when you move left it doesn't change the resistance. I used this method for a couple years then got a mouse bungee finally.



That's how I had it. Gave it less freedom where the cable sits exactly like on your picture and is much better now.
P.S. I love how the mouse heats a bit where the lights are. My hands are usually super cold and this helps so much


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> right click feels perfect and the left feels tactile but it is a bit sticky like you said. Where as my other ones just felt mushy. So my plan is to take this one apart and fix it, now your saying on the plungers themselves there is glue like residue?


Glue residue can be on the bottom part of button pieces, on the "hammer" which hits the plunger on the switch.

Standard logitech feet are 0.5~0.6mm. Using anything above that isn't recommended since you already have very low lod. Get your self a set of hotline feet (http://www.itaktech.com/products/hotline-games-logitech-g303-mouse-feet-2014-edition), or hyperglide MX-1.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Yes ,indeed. From a firm palm gripper, I became an aggressive claw gripper. Suddently, EC2-A wasn't suitable for me ,while the G303 fits like a glove. Sensor is amazing too, I don't know if it's the sensor or the fact that I don't think about how I grip the mouse but my aim is instantly improved. With ergo mice, I was always changing grips mid game and wasn't focusing enough on the game itself. I think I'll still use the EC2-A in windows, I use a relaxed palm/fingertip that doesn't work with the G303 much. It works, just not as comfortable as with the EC2-A.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Change in my grip:


Ah, makes sense then as the g303 is pretty much almost perfect if you use a strict claw grip (depending on hand size)


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> P.S. I love how the mouse heats a bit where the lights are. My hands are usually super cold and this helps so much


Told ya I wasn't crazy when I said it heats up


----------



## Cyro999

I have not noticed any heating but i have my light on 100% or off


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Ah, makes sense then as the g303 is pretty much almost perfect if you use a strict claw grip (depending on hand size)


17.5cm hands here, just had a long gaming session with the G303 and I must say, comfort is amazing. Haven't for a single second thought of the way I hold it, it just glues to my hand. When I put my hand on it, my natural grip is the one the G303 requires. Tried the EC2-A after that. Still a good shape,but less comfort with my grip,way less . Constantly moving my hand trying different grips + the fact that I have to hold it diagonally in the hand to be comfy, while the G303 is nearly perfectly straight. My aim in-game is still adjusting, but I'm getting there, I've been hitting shots I couldn't with old mice, yet missing easy ones. Adjustment period shouldn't be long, still held my own on LEM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I have not noticed any heating but i have my light on 100% or off


It's a very subtle heat, but it is there. It's physically explainable.

P.S. How is the scroll wheel on yours guys? Mine is very easily scrollable. Is that normal? I have heard people complain about it being too stiff and loud, but the scroll on my EC2-A is both louder and harder. + Should I have High Performance enabled in my Power options? I remember watching a video,where the guy claimed it improved the mouse tremendously.


----------



## Furiosus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Secure it like this
> 
> And give it more/less slack depending on how much you move your mouse. It's important that you secure it lined up with the left side of your mouse pad so when you move left it doesn't change the resistance. I used this method for a couple years then got a mouse bungee finally.


Something like this is what I use. You can find them by searching for "goose neck phone holder" or "goose neck desk clamp".


----------



## Gonzalez07

Anyone with small hands not find the g303 comfy? I have 7 inch hands and just tried it out at my local store and I found the grip to be quite comfortable


----------



## chr1spe

One of my speakers is right behind my mouse pad so I just taped it to the top of the speaker with skotch tape or whatever you call that thin clear tape. It is still not ideal though because at the top of the pad the cord runs in to the speaker. I don't really see how a mouse bungee would prevent that though. Maybe I just need to reduce the amount of cable, but I want to be able to use the whole pad. Maybe I need a bigger desk that is deeper or whatever so I can place something farther back. I'll probably just replace the cable eventually though.

Also I would say my scroll wheel is very light to scroll with mediocre definition of the steps and a medium click. I don't use middle click much with any mice, but occasionally I get an accidental scrolls when I middle click. Scrolling is very quiet when scrolling slowly a little bit loud when scrolling quickly, but nothing ridiculous.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I have a question. I find myself in need of a lower sens using this mouse. WIth my zowie , I had 800dpi @ 1.038 (perfectly matching it is 0.94) ,but I find myself feeling comfortable with it at 0.87, which is way lower. Any of you experience same thing? Different sensor position has to have something to do with it. + G303 glides way easier on mousepad and is lighter.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I have a question. I find myself in need of a lower sens using this mouse. WIth my zowie , I had 800dpi @ 1.038 (perfectly matching it is 0.94) ,but I find myself feeling comfortable with it at 0.87, which is way lower. Any of you experience same thing? Different sensor position has to have something to do with it. + G303 glides way easier on mousepad and is lighter.


Have you checked the dpi on your g303? One of the g303's i got was 50dpi higher than 400, might be worthwhile to check dpi on yours to see if it has a large variance.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Have you checked the dpi on your g303? One of the g303's i got was 50dpi higher than 400, might be worthwhile to check dpi on yours to see if it has a large variance.


800dpi , spot on. My Zowie had around 750dpi ,hence why 1.038 on it is exactly the same as 0.95 on my G303. The mouse is in a way,less controllable than the Zowie, which had more friction on the pad.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 800dpi , spot on. My Zowie had around 750dpi ,hence why 1.038 on it is exactly the same as 0.95 on my G303. The mouse is in a way,less controllable than the Zowie, which had more friction on the pad.


I noticed that with the G100s, my cursor feels like it's flying all over the place and going to places where I'm not aiming, I got used to it after a few hours in casual but woooooooooooooooooo holy heck bud, I guess that's the feeling of virtually 0 processing.

EDIT: Also, I heard some buzz about the LGS causing clown cursor permanently, and I believe it happened on a past install of it when all the buzz was going around, but I didn't feel it this time around? It sounds to me like placebo.


----------



## Melan

LGS has no effect on my G303 or G402.


----------



## Alya

I don't feel any difference with my G100s making my cursor fly all over even when I have LGS uninstalled, so I'm sure it's placebo and it's just the lack of processing that I'm not used to. I'll get used to it over time I'm sure.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> LGS has no effect on my G303 or G402.


My mouse wasn't working before LGS and the firmware update it gave. I like the program. Last mouse driver I had was Synapse, and LGS is superior on many levels.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I noticed that with the G100s, my cursor feels like it's flying all over the place and going to places where I'm not aiming, I got used to it after a few hours in casual but woooooooooooooooooo holy heck bud, I guess that's the feeling of virtually 0 processing.
> 
> EDIT: Also, I heard some buzz about the LGS causing clown cursor permanently, and I believe it happened on a past install of it when all the buzz was going around, but I didn't feel it this time around? It sounds to me like placebo.


I'm getting used to ,but it does feel weird coming from the Zowie, whose's sensor seems to have some smoothing and delay compared to the 3366. The DA feels the same as the G303, way quicker and responsive ,but not to the same extent. You gotta love the 3366, goddamn amazing sensor.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> My mouse wasn't working before LGS and the firmware update it gave my mouse. I like the program.
> 
> @Alya: I'm getting used to ,but it does feel weird coming from the Zowie, whose's sensor seems to have some smoothing and delay compared to the 3366. The DA feels the same as the G303, way quicker and responsive ,but not to the same extent. You gotta love the 3366, goddamn amazing sensor.


Yep, that's how I feel coming from my FK, my FK feels way more sluggish in comparison to my G100s, it really does feel like it has some type of artificial processing (even on the 3090 versions) the thing that amazes me is how good the AM010 in the G100s feels in comparison to my FK using the 3090 which feels amazing to the 3310 in my EC1-A, I thought the 3310 felt off (well...still does to me.) but I think it's just all Zowie mice that feel off to me, the G100s feel really floaty in comparison but I'm 100% sure that it's because I'm used to the slow, lagged feeling of the Zowie mice.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Yep, that's how I feel coming from my FK, my FK feels way more sluggish in comparison to my G100s, it really does feel like it has some type of artificial processing (even on the 3090 versions) the thing that amazes me is how good the AM010 in the G100s feels in comparison to my FK using the 3090 which feels amazing to the 3310 in my EC1-A, I thought the 3310 felt off (well...still does to me.) but I think it's just all Zowie mice that feel off to me, the G100s feel really floaty in comparison but I'm 100% sure that it's because I'm used to the slow, lagged feeling of the Zowie mice.


Exactly. I don't want to hate on them since their products are of higher quality (EC2-A feels much more rigid than the G303 in all aspects) ,but their sensor implementation is off. At first ,I honestly thought the G303 wasn't for me and hurting my aim. THe more I get used to it, the better I start aiming with incredibly shots as of late. Even after 3-4 hours of continuous gaming, I feel less strain on my hand than with the EC2-A. It's shaped perfectly for my grip, I never even consider how I hold it. I have played with the G100s and it felt marvelous too.


----------



## Maximillion

I've experienced the same thing you guys are talking about. G303 feels "looser" (in a good way) at the same DPI compared to 3310. In fact, my Sensei Raw exhibits more "responsiveness" as well. I had a EC1 CL and the tracking felt sluggish on that too.

There's other factors such as weight and sensor position but there's definitely differences in cursor feel beyond the typical prediction/variance stuff.

I touched on this very topic in this thread awhile back. Long story short, if we're talking "pure" tracking (ignoring other features) the 3310 arguably isn't even a top 5 sensor.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I've experienced the same thing you guys are talking about. G303 feels "looser" (in a good way) at the same DPI compared to 3310. In fact, my Sensei Raw exhibits more "responsiveness" as well. I had a EC1 CL and the tracking felt sluggish on that too.
> 
> There's other factors such as weight and sensor position but there's definitely differences in cursor feel beyond the typical prediction/variance stuff.
> 
> I touched on this very topic in this thread awhile back. Long story short, if we're talking "pure" tracking (ignoring other features) the 3310 arguably isn't even a top 5 sensor.


The 3310 felt like trash to me, even in comparison to the 3090, but the AM010 blows both of them out of the water as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I've experienced the same thing you guys are talking about. G303 feels "looser" (in a good way) at the same DPI compared to 3310. In fact, my Sensei Raw exhibits more "responsiveness" as well. I had a EC1 CL and the tracking felt sluggish on that too.
> 
> There's other factors such as weight and sensor position but there's definitely differences in cursor feel beyond the typical prediction/variance stuff.
> 
> I touched on this very topic in this thread awhile back. Long story short, if we're talking "pure" tracking (ignoring other features) the 3310 arguably isn't even a top 5 sensor.


Great to see i'm not the only one experiencing this. The combination of lower weight /better glide / 3366 sensor makes for a different feeling as a whole. It is just hyper responsive and snappy, "loose" is the best term to describe it, as you did it yourself. I have to say, it takes some time to get used to , since I have minor difficulties keeping a steady crosshair on the same sensitivity as I used with the Zowie.I could try a lower sens, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
Have been using the mouse for 2 days so far.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> The 3310 felt like trash to me, even in comparison to the 3090, but the AM010 blows both of them out of the water as far as I'm concerned.


yeah, I'm using a Kova atm (3320) and the tracking is quite good imo.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Is this a normal scroll wheel? It just feels loose compared to my other mice. I can move it very lightly left-->right ,as if it's not properly installed.

It mainly wobbles in the fornt, where as you can see ,by design, has some free space around the scroll:


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 800dpi , spot on. My Zowie had around 750dpi ,hence why 1.038 on it is exactly the same as 0.95 on my G303. The mouse is in a way,less controllable than the Zowie, which had more friction on the pad.


Give it some time brand new mouse skates are usually super slick, depending on how much you play it could take a week or 2 to wear them in.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Give it some time brand new mouse skates are usually super slick, depending on how much you play it could take a week or 2 to wear them in.


Theoretically I bought the mouse used from amazon warehouse deals. When it came , it didn't even have the initial firmware update so no idae if it has been used or it's being sold as used just because of slightly damaged box. Will do and won't change my sens for now


----------



## LDV617

My FK1 (2014) had some tracking issues and I replaced it with a ZA12.

I got the ZA12 and liked everything about it, had better clicks, decent shape, great sensor, etc.

I saw this on sale for 40$ at Amazon and decided to take a stab at it. It replaced my ZA12 overnight. Why? THE MOUSE BUTTONS. OMG. Now I see why Logitech people can never switch to other mice. I play CS:GO and pretty much only CS:GO and this mouse was pretty game changing. I was planning to wait for Finalmouse Scream1 (I.e. Finalmouse x Logitech) but this has totally met my needs. Now the scream1 looks like it might be too big for me.

This is hands down the best small ambi mouse you can buy for FPS games. Perfect for Palm/ Claw hybrid players (I do have Trump hands though)

EDIT: Do you guys use the surface optimization? Should I run the Logitech software in the background when gaming, or just save my settings to the ROM and uninstall the software?


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> My FK1 (2014) had some tracking issues and I replaced it with a ZA12.
> 
> I got the ZA12 and liked everything about it, had better clicks, decent shape, great sensor, etc.
> 
> I saw this on sale for 40$ at Amazon and decided to take a stab at it. It replaced my ZA12 overnight. Why? THE MOUSE BUTTONS. OMG. Now I see why Logitech people can never switch to other mice. I play CS:GO and pretty much only CS:GO and this mouse was pretty game changing. I was planning to wait for Finalmouse Scream1 (I.e. Finalmouse x Logitech) but this has totally met my needs. Now the scream1 looks like it might be too big for me.
> 
> This is hands down the best small ambi mouse you can buy for FPS games. Perfect for Palm/ Claw hybrid players (I do have Trump hands though)
> 
> EDIT: Do you guys use the surface optimization? Should I run the Logitech software in the background when gaming, or just save my settings to the ROM and uninstall the software?


What do you mean by mouse buttons? I hope you are not talking about click latency, that has almost zero actual effect on ability in csgo, But if you are talking about the click feel, then yeah that's one of the major reasons i stuck with this mouse. Zowie mice had really nice feeling clicks but i could not for the life of me spam pistols or rapid click in csgo. The g303 is the lesser of all the evils in my opinion, good shape, good clicks, good sensor, no huge defects (once you get one without sensor rattle) Im super picky about mice and have tried almost all of the major mice out there. The g303 i have now just needs some fiddling with the left click and it should be perfect (it probably would be perfect if i wasn't so damn picky).


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Theoretically I bought the mouse used from amazon warehouse deals. When it came , it didn't even have the initial firmware update so no idae if it has been used or it's being sold as used just because of slightly damaged box. Will do and won't change my sens for now


Honestly if you are having trouble with your aim, just use whatever sensitivity that you perform well on. Then down the road if your mouse stops gliding so well up the sens again. I did the same thing you did with the g303, i went from 1.8 @400dpi to 1.6-1.7 But take that with a grain of salt because i change my sensitivity almost daily. But i almost always end up coming back to 1.8ish. Right now im on 2.2 @400dpi because i just perform better with that sens, even though it doesn't feel controllable like 1.8 does. I think it might have something to do with spray reset, on 1.8 i have to re-grip the mouse when i'm done spraying to get my aim back but who knows ill probably end up going back to 1.8 after a bad day of csgo.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Honestly if you are having trouble with your aim, just use whatever sensitivity that you perform well on. Then down the road if your mouse stops gliding so well up the sens again. I did the same thing you did with the g303, i went from 1.8 @400dpi to 1.6-1.7 But take that with a grain of salt because i change my sensitivity almost daily. But i almost always end up coming back to 1.8ish. Right now im on 2.2 @400dpi because i just perform better with that sens, even though it doesn't feel controllable like 1.8 does. I think it might have something to do with spray reset, on 1.8 i have to re-grip the mouse when i'm done spraying to get my aim back but who knows ill probably end up going back to 1.8 after a bad day of csgo.


After some tweaking, I decided to go for a sens that matches my muscle memory instead of the cm's i need for a 360. Using 1.0 gives me perfect tracking at close range. Anything less and i can't perfectly track running enemies up close. 0.87 is definitely better for taps and flicks, I can definitely hit some godly shots with it, but up close tracking is no bueno. 0.95 seems to be a good middle ground.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> What do you mean by mouse buttons? I hope you are not talking about click latency, that has almost zero actual effect on ability in csgo, But if you are talking about the click feel, then yeah that's one of the major reasons i stuck with this mouse. Zowie mice had really nice feeling clicks but i could not for the life of me spam pistols or rapid click in csgo. The g303 is the lesser of all the evils in my opinion, good shape, good clicks, good sensor, no huge defects (once you get one without sensor rattle) Im super picky about mice and have tried almost all of the major mice out there. The g303 i have now just needs some fiddling with the left click and it should be perfect (it probably would be perfect if i wasn't so damn picky).


Click latency was a huge factor for me. My shots would go off at the wrong times. I was more or less fighting an invisible force to time my bursts/taps and stutter steps. I agree that the Zowie mice are MUCH harder to spam with pistols, but I saw a major increase in accuracy for tapping / jiggling / flick shots. My Zowie mouse would not always fire the first shot when my mind wanted it to (click latency, imho)

I have some evidence of this as well. My burst accuracy went up ~15% after getting the G303. I keep a spreadsheet of my stats on the aim_training_csgo2 map (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=213240871)

As you can see from these screenshots, my ZA12 bursts were around 70-75% fairly consistently. But the first day with the G303 my bursts were over 80%. That is a significant increase in accuracy and I believe it has to do with first shot placement. First shot placement would directly relate to click latency.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The image below is a section of my spreadsheet regarding AK bursts. The settings should be pretty obvious, but I set the targets to 5 unit sizes, 3 shots to kill, 1 second to hit, and shoot from first platform. I improved from 60% to 75% over the course of a few months.



Now this image shows my FIRST attempt with the G303, and you can see it is a major difference considering it took months to improve by 10%


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> Click latency was a huge factor for me. My shots would go off at the wrong times. I was more or less fighting an invisible force to time my bursts/taps and stutter steps. I agree that the Zowie mice are MUCH harder to spam with pistols, but I saw a major increase in accuracy for tapping / jiggling / flick shots. My Zowie mouse would not always fire the first shot when my mind wanted it to (click latency, imho)
> 
> I have some evidence of this as well. My burst accuracy went up ~15% after getting the G303. I keep a spreadsheet of my stats on the aim_training_csgo2 map (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=213240871)
> 
> As you can see from these screenshots, my ZA12 bursts were around 70-75% fairly consistently. But the first day with the G303 my bursts were over 80%. That is a significant increase in accuracy and I believe it has to do with first shot placement. First shot placement would directly relate to click latency.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> The image below is a section of my spreadsheet regarding AK bursts. The settings should be pretty obvious, but I set the targets to 5 unit sizes, 3 shots to kill, 1 second to hit, and shoot from first platform. I improved from 60% to 75% over the course of a few months.
> 
> 
> 
> Now this image shows my FIRST attempt with the G303, and you can see it is a major difference considering it took months to improve by 10%


Going with you on this one. I was a firm believer that it didn't make any difference but ever since I started using the G303, my strafing peaks have miraculously been improving.. Couldn't explain it to myself so I tried again with the EC2-A and I just couldn't time everything as right as I can with the G303. Been enjoying it more and more. If I have to nitpick about flaws, I have only one:
Given the thin base, I find it slightly unstable, causing shakier aim . My hand needs to be warmed up and ready or else my aim will be all over the place.


----------



## LDV617

That reminds me I need to buy better mouse feet









The shape is really perfect for my hands though, which I wasn't expecting. My biggest complaint would be my accidental clicks giving away my position / accidental mousescroll jumps. But that will go away in time.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> That reminds me I need to buy better mouse feet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shape is really perfect for my hands though, which I wasn't expecting. My biggest complaint would be my accidental clicks giving away my position / accidental mousescroll jumps. But that will go away in time.


I just love when i'm flanking and about to pull the craziest clutch....and then i misclick and shoot my AK







 Or the usual "let's remove the suppressor of my M4" . I honestly started using the M4A4 right now ,just because of it.


----------



## LDV617

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> "let's remove the suppressor of my M4" . I honestly started using the M4A4 right now ,just because of it.


OMG THIS. I wish I could just unbind mouse2 for silenced weapons only, but sadly I haven't found a proper way to do it


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LDV617*
> 
> OMG THIS. I wish I could just unbind mouse2 for silenced weapons only, but sadly I haven't found a proper way to do it


I tried to unbind mouse2 alltogether, but then I picked up an AWP and realised something...


----------



## hallux

You guys have any tips on how to reduce the glide of the mouse feet? I feel like the amount of feet/surface area covered makes the mouse too slippery for me to really get a good feel. Other than that I love this mouse so any help is appreciated.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hallux*
> 
> You guys have any tips on how to reduce the glide of the mouse feet? I feel like the amount of feet/surface area covered makes the mouse too slippery for me to really get a good feel. Other than that I love this mouse so any help is appreciated.


http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2015/06/g100s.html


----------



## daunow

Has anyone bough a G303 from Amazon lately (1-2 weeks) and know if they have fixed the rattle on their version of the mouse?


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Has anyone bough a G303 from Amazon lately (1-2 weeks) and know if they have fixed the rattle on their version of the mouse?


I have got 3 from amazon in the past 2 weeks, only one of them had a slight rattle, hard to know if the rattle would have got worse or not because i just ordered a replacement and was only using it for 2 days. But if you are ordering from amazon i would just go for it and if it has rattle just do a return and select replacement and they will ship out a replacement while you use the one with the rattle then you can ship the rattling one/ones back with a prepaid label from amazon.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Anyone have any tips for cleaning the area where your thumb goes? My mouse gets gunk built up there and when I scrape it off it gets underneath the side buttons. And tips on how to keep that area clean in general?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Anyone have any tips for cleaning the area where your thumb goes? My mouse gets gunk built up there and when I scrape it off it gets underneath the side buttons. And tips on how to keep that area clean in general?


Wet wipe/towel?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Anyone have any tips for cleaning the area where your thumb goes? My mouse gets gunk built up there and when I scrape it off it gets underneath the side buttons. And tips on how to keep that area clean in general?


I use a microfible cloth every day before I go to bed. My mice are always clean af. Wash hands too.
On another topic, thanks G303:

G]


----------



## killuchen

Free trial on amazon prime was back up on my account. Going to try this mouse out. I'm coming from a zowie za11


----------



## hotwheels1997

I made some grip improvements. Since my thumb ends up sliding down and pushing the mouse up a bit while spraying, I fixed the issue by doing this:


It basically stops my finger from slipping.


----------



## James N

Can someone who ordered the g303 on amazon lately tell me. Has the sensor rattling issue been fixed?


----------



## Melan

It's random. I got one from amazon and it didn't rattle (until I broke off the lens), and one from logitech store which didn't rattle either.


----------



## LDV617

I have had mine for about 2-3 weeks and didn't even know there was a rattle problem until today. I haven't experienced it and neither has the person who recommended it.


----------



## killuchen

I ordered one yesterday from amazon. Says it was supposed to be here today. 9:40pm est and it's still not here :x


----------



## James N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I ordered one yesterday from amazon. Says it was supposed to be here today. 9:40pm est and it's still not here :x


When you received your mouse, please let me know if yours has the sensor rattle or not.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I ordered one yesterday from amazon. Says it was supposed to be here today. 9:40pm est and it's still not here :x




sup cuz
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> When you received your mouse, please let me know if yours has the sensor rattle or not.


I'll let you know if anything. I doubt they have fixed it.


----------



## kingfoxii

i have this mose since release and i am still not happy with it. the shape makes my hand hurt so fast compared to every other mice i used.


----------



## pnoozi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I just love when i'm flanking and about to pull the craziest clutch....and then i misclick and shoot my AK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or the usual "let's remove the suppressor of my M4" . I honestly started using the M4A4 right now ,just because of it.


+ shorter barrel
+ 10 more bullets in magazine
+ M4A1-S was nerfed a while ago

No brainer at this point. I personally made the switch just recently and it's so much better.


----------



## killuchen

Paid for 1 day shipping on my G303 and the shipping is delayed until this coming Thursday -_-. Just had a chat with amazon and they refunded me the whole payment


----------



## Dylan Nails

refunded all shipping costs or the whole mouse


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dylan Nails*
> 
> refunded all shipping costs or the whole mouse


The whole mouse.


----------



## daunow

Jesus.
How do I not get this lucky with customer supports when it happens to me, than again I've never had any problems with amazon.


----------



## hotwheels1997

They also paid for expedited shipping from Germany to Bulgaria ,since they delayed the departure by a day. Got the mouse for 30 euros shipped, while retailing @ 75 euros here.
Was thinking of a reason to make a post just so I can say how much I love the mouse. Didn't think of a valid reason, but still here it is: I LOVE IT , after 2 years of being in the mouse market, perfecting my grip and trying mice, I have finally found the perfect combo. The best grip for me and the best mouse there is out there. Shape is so amazing I can't imagine myself ever playing again with something else.


----------



## kingfoxii

letz see what you say after 8h of gaming.. i dont think that your hand will not hurt than.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> letz see what you say after 8h of gaming.. i dont think that your hand will not hurt than.


Actually had a gaming marathon that lasted throughtout the entire Sunday. Started playing at ~10-11AM and stopped at ~1-2AM . Needless to say, it's more than 8hr and my hand is all good.
I never usually play more than 2-3hr though.


----------



## kingfoxii

srsly i cant understand this.. i try to use this mouse for years now.. i play extremly well with it but after 2h my performence goes to hell and my hand starts to hurt.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> srsly i cant understand this.. i try to use this mouse for years now.. i play extremly well with it but after 2h my performence goes to hell and my hand starts to hurt.


Perhaps, just perhaps, it's not the right shape for you. I often play badly the first ~1hr till I warmup and then I can perform on level till I get tired or bored,which takes around 2-3 hours.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> srsly i cant understand this.. i try to use this mouse for years now.. i play extremly well with it but after 2h my performence goes to hell and my hand starts to hurt.


It is probably just a bad shape FOR YOU.

People who won't give the shape a rest make me want to go spam the deathadder and rival threads with complaints about how awful the shape is. I don't get why people think this shape must not work for anyone just because some people don't like it. I find any large mouse especially ergo ones really uncomfortable, so I just avoid them. Its unfortunate that there aren't more options as nice as the g303 with different shapes and sizes with decent weights, but they are coming.

AFAIK the first public 3360 mouse released today, the corsair m65 pro, and while it probably isn't great I'm sure there will be a ton more coming in the next few months.


----------



## killuchen

Should i calibrate the mouse to my zowie gsr mouse pad or leave it at default?


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Perhaps, just perhaps, it's not the right shape for you. I often play badly the first ~1hr till I warmup and then I can perform on level till I get tired or bored,which takes around 2-3 hours.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> It is probably just a bad shape FOR YOU.
> 
> People who won't give the shape a rest make me want to go spam the deathadder and rival threads with complaints about how awful the shape is. I don't get why people think this shape must not work for anyone just because some people don't like it. I find any large mouse especially ergo ones really uncomfortable, so I just avoid them. Its unfortunate that there aren't more options as nice as the g303 with different shapes and sizes with decent weights, but they are coming.
> 
> AFAIK the first public 3360 mouse released today, the corsair m65 pro, and while it probably isn't great I'm sure there will be a ton more coming in the next few months.


i just try to find out why. becouse i realy like the mouse itself. Maybe its the way i play. Are you guys wristplayers or armplayers? What dpi / sense do you use? I play on 900 dpi almost only with my wrist. Maybe that is the problem idk.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> i just try to find out why. becouse i realy like the mouse itself. Maybe its the way i play. Are you guys wristplayers or armplayers? What dpi / sense do you use? I play on 900 dpi almost only with my wrist. Maybe that is the problem idk.


800dpi @ 1 sens.
Can't say if I'm a wrist or an arm player. It depends on the amount of movement I have to do . I usually track with wrist and flick with arm. Depends mostly on grip. Here's mine:


Spoiler: Pics


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> i just try to find out why. becouse i realy like the mouse itself. Maybe its the way i play. Are you guys wristplayers or armplayers? What dpi / sense do you use? I play on 900 dpi almost only with my wrist. Maybe that is the problem idk.


I use both my wrist and arm. 800dpi 1.6 in game so kind of high sensitivity. If I'm doing more than a 90 degree turn I definitely use my arm, but for small turns and actual aiming I mostly use my wrist I guess.


----------



## crovean

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 800dpi @ 1 sens.
> Can't say if I'm a wrist or an arm player. It depends on the amount of movement I have to do . I usually track with wrist and flick with arm. Depends mostly on grip. Here's mine:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pics


i'm a fingertip player with the same sensitivity and nearly the same finger placement as you, except that my ringfinger and pinky are placed a bit more back so i have one in before and one after the bump. this also makes me tilt my mouse in a ~30-45 degree angle.
i rarely every use my entire arm when i'm in a position where i would need to suddenly aim because i use my arm and wrist at the same time when doing so and it leaves my hand in an awkward and uncomfortable position where my fingers have trouble controlling my mouse precisely.


----------



## killuchen

Ok, so I just got my G303. I took a video of me shaking my mouse. Is this the rattle you guys are talking about? Should I return it for a new one? Will it affect the performance of my mouse?

I shook my ZA11 and it does the same thing lol.


----------



## kingfoxii

mine does the same, but i dont hear this while playing.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> mine does the same, but i dont hear this while playing.


Yea, I don't hear this when I'm playing.


----------



## fuzzybass

The rattle in your video could just be the mouse wheel. You should hold the wheel in place to make sure the rattle isn't coming from the lens.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> The rattle in your video could just be the mouse wheel. You should hold the wheel in place to make sure the rattle isn't coming from the lens.


Just did this and the rattle sound is not coming from my scroll wheel. Would you recommend I try returning it for a new one?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Just did this and the rattle sound is not coming from my scroll wheel. Would you recommend I try returning it for a new one?


If it affects tracking,yes. Otherwise, why bother honestly?


----------



## kingfoxii

i would stay with it, this is the same like mine do it just happens when you take it in the hand and shake it. while gaming you have absolutly nothing. i saw other g303 that rattle while gaming. and that is a nogo!


----------



## Proxzor

Took me a while to fix the sensor rattle, I had some zowie skates and tried to use those instead of tape, turns out that didn't really work, so in the end I just used regular tape and its much better now. The only problem I have left with my g303 is that the mouse drag feels absolutely awful, the cord is just so heavy and since I play with a low sensitivity I can feel every little thing when I move my mouse and try to turn a bit faster than normal. I have a mouse bungee but honestly I don't feel any difference with this, does anyone else have a trick to perhaps make it more bareable?


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Proxzor*
> 
> Took me a while to fix the sensor rattle, I had some zowie skates and tried to use those instead of tape, turns out that didn't really work, so in the end I just used regular tape and its much better now. The only problem I have left with my g303 is that the mouse drag feels absolutely awful, the cord is just so heavy and since I play with a low sensitivity I can feel every little thing when I move my mouse and try to turn a bit faster than normal. I have a mouse bungee but honestly I don't feel any difference with this, does anyone else have a trick to perhaps make it more bareable?


Open that sucker back up and put in a zowie or other smooth light cable... Sand down the bottom til nice and flat and throw on some hyperglides. Great mouse after that







p.s. Or you can get a g302 cable to make it easy. Zowie cable requires you to move around the different colored cables to match the logitech layout


----------



## Melan

G302 cable is even worse. Don't use it. You can just debraid the original one if it annoys you.


----------



## Proxzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> G302 cable is even worse. Don't use it. You can just debraid the original one if it annoys you.


how to even do that **** man, sounds so difficult lol


----------



## Melan

Step 1: Take fine point scissors.
Step 2: Start cutting.


----------



## Proxzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Step 1: Take fine point scissors.
> Step 2: Start cutting.


One eternity later, not everything is gone but enough to make me satisfied I suppose...


----------



## m0uz

In excess of 300ips, they said


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> In excess of 300ips, they said


The mouse is not literally a space ship. You aren't supposed to try to achieve escape velocity.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> In excess of 300ips, they said


Holy .... how does one achieve this?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> In excess of 300ips, they said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy .... how does one achieve this?
Click to expand...

Lag


----------



## zantetheo

I have the G502 for over a year now. Yesterday i decided to buy the the G302 cause i really like lightweight mouse for gaming plus i heave small hands.

First impressions with the G302 is really positive about the gaming aspect. Although i miss the option of the free scroll wheel of the G502.


----------



## Proxzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> I have the G502 for over a year now. Yesterday i decided to buy the the G302 cause i really like lightweight mouse for gaming plus i heave small hands.
> 
> First impressions with the G302 is really positive about the gaming aspect. Although i miss the option of the free scroll wheel of the G502.


what made you go with the g302 instead of the g303?


----------



## zantetheo

Because G303 is 15 euros more expensive in my country ( and i don't really care about the cable or that it is more steady or the colours).

But mainly i decided to pick G302 from Rocket Jump Ninja review




This guy reviews on mouse are by far the best reviews i have ever seen.

P.s Getting used of G302 today and i must say i am impressed how well it works on FPS games.

I'm sorry about my English, not my native language


----------



## m0uz

Zy is quite thorough but includes some ridiculous (in a funny way) stuff as well. Like banging the mouse on the pad to check build quality. Still love him, though


----------



## coldc0ffee

I agree Zy is awesome!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Zy is quite thorough but includes some ridiculous (in a funny way) stuff as well. Like banging the mouse on the pad to check build quality. Still love him, though


His actual knowledge of sensors actually ... Is non-existent. I find it funny that he has played quake for 17 years and as he told me, he has never taken part of any international or big tournament, because it doesn't have clan arena.

Edit: but yeah his videos themselves are pretty good.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> Because G303 is 15 euros more expensive in my country ( and i don't really care about the cable or that it is more steady or the colours).
> 
> But mainly i decided to pick G302 from Rocket Jump Ninja review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy reviews on mouse are by far the best reviews i have ever seen.
> 
> P.s Getting used of G302 today and i must say i am impressed how well it works on FPS games.
> 
> I'm sorry about my English, not my native language


That video is funnily lacking in detail. I literally said "that's it?" when the video ended.

I read newer G302s come with the side feet. Did yours come with those?


----------



## maxkill

Hey! I just got this and I seem to be superpleased with the grip on this, just so logical the design to me.

However the separate X Y axis settings for this mouse is missing in the software. I need to use the same dpi for both axis.

Is there a workaround to be able to set the X Y separately? Maybe installing older LGM or setpoint software or something?

(Am using dll call in autohotkey script for different sens while holding keys, so if there is a way to use autohotkey to set different x y sens that would work too but don't know how to put this in the script.)


----------



## zantetheo

No they didn't come with side feet but honestly i don't even notice that the mouse is not stable not in gaming not in general use.

I really like the review on both of them though


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> His actual knowledge of sensors actually ... Is non-existent. I find it funny that he has played quake for 17 years and as he told me, he has never taken part of any international or big tournament, because it doesn't have clan arena.
> 
> Edit: but yeah his videos themselves are pretty good.


I partially agree. He definitely doesn't include other important aspects of the mouse's performance but, as a dirty casual myself, I'm not bothered by them, so I guess it's a personal thing. I'm not hindered or really care about an extra "X" ms of click delay or "Y" amounts of smoothing. The only things I really care about, again as a casual player, are the PCS, LOD and CPI steps. Maybe add jitter to that list. For me, he covers everything I care about in a mouse but, again, his knowledge is "good, but not great"


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> I partially agree. He definitely doesn't include other important aspects of the mouse's performance but, as a dirty casual myself, I'm not bothered by them, so I guess it's a personal thing. I'm not hindered or really care about an extra "X" ms of click delay or "Y" amounts of smoothing. The only things I really care about, again as a casual player, are the PCS, LOD and CPI steps. Maybe add jitter to that list. For me, he covers everything I care about in a mouse but, again, his knowledge is "good, but not great"


I don't mean those things like latency. I was more referring to knowledge about specific architectures. Like he recommends people to use 3000 or generally high cpi because it is more 'accurate'. On the 3988, for example you shouln't use high steps because of added delay/smoothing. Then he says that all mice perform worse at 400 cpi. This is utter bs. He also doesn't know what native cpi steps are because he is mainly testing 3988/3310. Our senpai woll3 has pointed out some blatant mistakes of his but he ignores it and doesn't even listen.

Then, he says that 3989 is the most responsive sensor he he ever used. And he uses 3200 cpi... Everybody knows it has added smoothing at higher cpis, even higher than 3310... Like it confuses me how he doesn't know that or how he can say stuff without actual theoretical knowledge. Also his recommendations often have no facts or real data. He doesn't even measure pcs.

Then he invents certain words like sensor wobble. Nobody knows what it is.

Then he says that the golden width for a mouse is 55 mm and the perfect base length is 11 cm... This depends on hand size, gripstyle etc.

I'm not against him by any means, but what he says is often incorrect, unintelligent or plain makes me cringe, because it's based on nothing. I still try not to focus on those aspects and enjoy his videos though, since he does good vids and camerawork for a youtubber. And he isn't bad at quake.


----------



## qsxcv

^stuff like that is why i never bother with watching youtube reviews of anything


----------



## Melan

And then I have people telling me how their a4 tech mouse is most accurate at max cpi and get salty when I tell them otherwise. Watching these reviews makes me cringe.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I don't mean those things like latency. I was more referring to knowledge about specific architectures. Like he recommends people to use 3000 or generally high cpi because it is more 'accurate'. On the 3988, for example you shouln't use high steps because of added delay/smoothing. Then he says that all mice perform worse at 400 cpi. This is utter bs. He also doesn't know what native cpi steps are because he is mainly testing 3988/3310. Our senpai woll3 has pointed out some blatant mistakes of his but he ignores it and doesn't even listen.
> 
> Then, he says that 3989 is the most responsive sensor he he ever used. And he uses 3200 cpi... Everybody knows it has added smoothing at higher cpis, even higher than 3310... Like it confuses me how he doesn't know that or how he can say stuff without actual theoretical knowledge. Also his recommendations often have no facts or real data. He doesn't even measure pcs.
> 
> Then he invents certain words like sensor wobble. Nobody knows what it is.
> 
> Then he says that the golden width for a mouse is 55 mm and the perfect base length is 11 cm... This depends on hand size, gripstyle etc.
> 
> I'm not against him by any means, but what he says is often incorrect, unintelligent or plain makes me cringe, because it's based on nothing. I still try not to focus on those aspects and enjoy his videos though, since he does good vids and camerawork for a youtubber. And he isn't bad at quake.


Well its all preference. But i also can say by testing my self, the 3989 Sensor in the deathadder feels more responsiv than any other ive used. But i can also say, the clicks in Logitech mice feel more responsive as in every other mice. The main question is, wich wich mouse you can get the best performence. People go pro even with bad mice sometimes. Horrible clicklatency for example. But who cares if it feels good, use it. Its more worth than a review that says this mouse is 2ms faster. When you get cramps in your hand or it feels exhausted you lose more than 2 ms. I think thats what he trys to tell people in his reviews. More about the feeling.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> Well its all preference. But i also can say by testing my self, the 3989 Sensor in the deathadder feels more responsiv than any other ive used. But i can also say, the clicks in Logitech mice feel more responsive as in every other mice. The main question is, wich wich mouse you can get the best performence. People go pro even with bad mice sometimes. Horrible clicklatency for example. But who cares if it feels good, use it. Its more worth than a review that says this mouse is 2ms faster. When you get cramps in your hand or it feels exhausted you lose more than 2 ms. I think thats what he trys to tell people in his reviews. More about the feeling.


I mean responsiveness can be objectively measured. I guess you could prefer the feeling of smoothing or delay, but that is kind of counter intuitive. Also the 3989 or at least the deathadder chroma has been measured for responsiveness and is objectively less responsive than the pmw3366. Unless you can show there is a flaw in the tests that have been done you can't really argue that it is more responsive. I guess you could still say the tracking feels better, but most people don't like delay.

Edit: Also it is probably even enough delay that some people would most likely be able to feel the delay if you did a blind side by side test. Most probably would not directly be able to tell the difference, but that still doesn't mean it isn't bad.


----------



## tunelover

I went back to this mouse after almost 2 years 1 year* after deciding to tape the sides and the back edges where the curves were sharp using this graff tape(thanks @popups for the idea): http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Premium-Grade-Gaffer-Tape/dp/B00TQ7DQU4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

on the left side toward the butt, that is where I added a chunk of tape carefully cut with a scissor when neccessary. This was the area on the mouse that pushed against the back of my palm. I added some on the right side butt as well but here it was not that neccessary, although it helps in feeling bietter.

on the right side front where you rest your pinky(maybe even ring finger, depending on user) I added a chunk as u can see and now after I've done this the mouse is actually usable again

pics below:






Edit: I will add more tape if neccessary to the left side(thumb side) and maybe even try to make it round like the g100s on its butt. this tape is really nice to work with. I will upload my results here if i find more ways to add this tape and make it even more comfortable


----------



## LocoDiceGR

Quick question guys, im considering buying this mouse,

does the rattle problem fixed in the latest batch?? or its still going...??

Thanks!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I don't mean those things like latency. I was more referring to knowledge about specific architectures. Like he recommends people to use 3000 or generally high cpi because it is more 'accurate'. On the 3988, for example you shouln't use high steps because of added delay/smoothing. Then he says that all mice perform worse at 400 cpi. This is utter bs. He also doesn't know what native cpi steps are because he is mainly testing 3988/3310. Our senpai woll3 has pointed out some blatant mistakes of his but he ignores it and doesn't even listen.
> 
> Then, he says that 3989 is the most responsive sensor he he ever used. And he uses 3200 cpi... Everybody knows it has added smoothing at higher cpis, even higher than 3310... Like it confuses me how he doesn't know that or how he can say stuff without actual theoretical knowledge. Also his recommendations often have no facts or real data. He doesn't even measure pcs.
> 
> Then he invents certain words like sensor wobble. Nobody knows what it is.
> 
> Then he says that the golden width for a mouse is 55 mm and the perfect base length is 11 cm... This depends on hand size, gripstyle etc.
> 
> I'm not against him by any means, but what he says is often incorrect, unintelligent or plain makes me cringe, because it's based on nothing. I still try not to focus on those aspects and enjoy his videos though, since he does good vids and camerawork for a youtubber. And he isn't bad at quake.


RJN is very biased towards high sens gameplay, which explains some of his statements regarding high cpi. But that is also because his actual test for that is going fov 0 (some low number, not really sure what it was) and then look if the is pixel precise. Of course that only works with veeeeeery small turning angles so higher cpi/lower sens always wins there. It's not a realistic scenario though.


----------



## Bucake

RJN, sigh. he should just stick with practical stuff, because he knows about those things - shape, button presses, coating, button-placement, etc..
him talking about sensor performance would be me talking about rocket science. (i do not know anything about rocket science.)

and it's also unfortunate that terms like responsiveness are miss-used like that.
i suppose when cursor movement feels smooth or accurate to them, they think of responsive..?
oh well


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> RJN, sigh. he should just stick with practical stuff, because he knows about those things - shape, button presses, coating, button-placement, etc..
> him talking about sensor performance would be me talking about rocket science. (i do not know anything about rocket science.)
> 
> and it's also unfortunate that terms like responsiveness are miss-used like that.
> i suppose when cursor movement feels smooth or accurate to them, they think of responsive..?
> oh well


That's what I was saying. There is nothing wrong with his videos, just what he says is often bs or not factual.


----------



## LLabwons

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocoDiceGR*
> 
> Quick question guys, im considering buying this mouse,
> 
> does the rattle problem fixed in the latest batch?? or its still going...??
> 
> Thanks!


I just picked up one from Best Buy (batch number 4380) and taken aback at how bad it was - the sensor rattle was comically loud, the scroll wheel, going down, would skip sometimes as well as was palpably mushier than going up, and when the back side button was pressed, a spring would ring out like it was about to shoot off. The sensor was exceeded my expectations marvelously though, so I returned it for a new one - same batch. Lo! - and behold, 0 issues. No rattle, buttons are fine, scroll wheel perfect. It's truly a mouse deserving of praise. Not sure what to say about purchasing this mouse other than I would buy it from a store near you and with at least a 14 day return policy. Good luck, man, it's really something special if you get a good one.

Edit:4380


----------



## crovean

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LLabwons*
> 
> I
> I just picked up one from Best Buy (batch number 4380) and taken aback at how bad it was - the sensor rattle was comically loud, the scroll wheel, going down, would skip sometimes as well as was palpably mushier than going up, and when the back side button was pressed, a spring would ring out like it was about to shoot off. The sensor was exceeded my expectations marvelously though, so I returned it for a new one - same batch. Lo! - and behold, 0 issues. No rattle, buttons are fine, scroll wheel perfect. It's truly a mouse deserving of praise. Not sure what to say about purchasing this mouse other than I would buy it from a store near you and with at least a 14 day return policy. Good luck, man, it's really something special if you get a good one.
> 
> Edit:4380


i have the exact same issues as you had with your first one. it's just a giant pain to send it back to amazon us to have another 50/50 on a proper one. the sensor and mouse1/2 are the only reason i still sometimes use it and it's the only sensor that i can use seconds after a mlt04 and be perfectly fine with.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> I went back to this mouse after almost 2 years 1 year* after deciding to tape the sides and the back edges where the curves were sharp using this graff tape(thanks @popups for the idea): http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Premium-Grade-Gaffer-Tape/dp/B00TQ7DQU4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
> 
> on the left side toward the butt, that is where I added a chunk of tape carefully cut with a scissor when neccessary. This was the area on the mouse that pushed against the back of my palm. I added some on the right side butt as well but here it was not that neccessary, although it helps in feeling bietter.
> 
> on the right side front where you rest your pinky(maybe even ring finger, depending on user) I added a chunk as u can see and now after I've done this the mouse is actually usable again
> 
> Edit: I will add more tape if neccessary to the left side(thumb side) and maybe even try to make it round like the g100s on its butt. this tape is really nice to work with. I will upload my results here if i find more ways to add this tape and make it even more comfortable


Did you use regular/scotch tape as the base before adding the gaffer tape? If you didn't, I suggest you remove the gaffer tape and do so. The adhesive from the gaffer tape is more sticky than that of regular tape. The adhesive from regular tape will be easier to remove.


----------



## James N

I just received my G303 from amazon. i placed some black electric tape on top the sensorhole and shook it. The lens rattle noise was pretty quiet (not as loud as described or shown by some poeple), but i was still able to see the cursor move. I also tested it with the "mouse tester" software. Batch number 4382 .


So yea, still not fixed. Which is a shame, the sensor feels amazing. Let's see how often i have to return it, to get a good one. I will let you guys know.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> I just received my G303 from amazon. i placed some black electric tape on top the sensorhole and shook it. The lens rattle noise was pretty quiet (not as loud as described or shown by some poeple), but i was still able to see the cursor move. I also tested it with the "mouse tester" software. Batch number 4382 .
> 
> 
> So yea, still not fixed. Which is a shame, the sensor feels amazing. Let's see how often i have to return it, to get a good one. I will let you guys know.


I'm curious on if my mouse will do the same thing. There's sensor rattle if I shake it really hard. But on normal use you can't hear it. I also got mine from amazon last week.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I'm curious on if my mouse will do the same thing. There's sensor rattle if I shake it really hard. But on normal use you can't hear it. I also got mine from amazon last week.


If the speed goes below 0, it's the sensor rattle or what?


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> If the speed goes below 0, it's the sensor rattle or what?


I'm not sure lol


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I'm not sure lol


I just played around with the program. If the mouse moves the opposite direction, it gives below 0 readings. Getting slight reading below 0 after a flick in that case is normal,because my hand resets and probably moves a bit . I get them ,but my cursor doesn't move a pixel with a black tape above the sensor at 12k DPI.


----------



## James N

Since the sensor wobbles when you do a hard flick, you can see it on the graph. If you move your hand to the right it shows it as above 0 and if you move it to the left it shows it below 0. Since i only flicked to the right it shouldn't show a negative value.

I tested this with a deathadder, zowie za-11 and g100s . Neither of them went below 0 . Of course you need to do a clean movement.

The best test is to set your g303 to the highest dpi setting and then use black electric tape on top of the sensor hole. Your mouse cursor shouldn't move at all. If it does, you got a loose sensor. Or you can also do it in your favorite FPS game and crank up your ingame sensitivity.


----------



## James N

The tape test is more reliable since with this software your movement needs to be really clean. I tested it like 20 times to be sure with each mouse. And only my g303 did that.

So if your cursor doesn't move with the tape apllied to it, you got a good one. Make sure to not only shake it left right but also up and down, my lense wobbles hardcore when i move it up and down.


----------



## zaQon

Nice tape trick, checked my g502 and its confirmed wobble. Thanks a lot ;D


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> I just received my G303 from amazon. i placed some black electric tape on top the sensorhole and shook it. The lens rattle noise was pretty quiet (not as loud as described or shown by some poeple), but i was still able to see the cursor move. I also tested it with the "mouse tester" software. Batch number 4382 .
> 
> So yea, still not fixed. Which is a shame, the sensor feels amazing. Let's see how often i have to return it, to get a good one. I will let you guys know.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> If the speed goes below 0, it's the sensor rattle or what?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I just played around with the program. If the mouse moves the opposite direction, it gives below 0 readings. Getting slight reading below 0 after a flick in that case is normal,because my hand resets and probably moves a bit . I get them ,but my cursor doesn't move a pixel with a black tape above the sensor at 12k DPI.


If the sensor continues to perceive movement after stopping, that would ruin your likelihood of landing a head shot. You would have to wait longer after a flick before you can shoot.


----------



## coldc0ffee

So on my [older] g303 I installed a zowie cable, sanded down the bottom to a nice smooth finish, put on mx300/g1 hyperglides, and put in Japanese D2F-F omrons. Also fixed the rattling sensor. It's awesome if I do say so myself


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I'm curious on if my mouse will do the same thing. There's sensor rattle if I shake it really hard. But on normal use you can't hear it. I also got mine from amazon last week.
> 
> 
> 
> If the speed goes below 0, it's the sensor rattle or what?
Click to expand...

it's almost impossible to be sure whether it's due to the lens or due to your hand.


----------



## SmashTV

I'd reckon due to hand. Happens in 90% of my mouse tester plots.


----------



## TriviumKM

That's not how the mouse tester plot looks when you have legit sensor rattle; your g303 is fine, that's your hand movement.

My g303 with sensor rattle had terrible looking mouse tester plots with counts going everywhere.


----------



## James N

well mine isnt as horrible as some of the examples i saw on youtube. But it still moves quite a bit when i use the tape on top of the sensorhole. Also my ZA-11 plots stop at 0. Even if it is not as bad now, i can't be sure that it won't get worse over time. And it is still bad enough for me to return the mouse. Do you have any of your plots still? That would be interesting to see.


----------



## TriviumKM

Wish I did, I deleted all of them a while ago.

All I can say is if you do indeed have legit sensor rattle and it's affecting you all you can really do is fix it yourself or opt to rma it, logitech has good customer service from my experience.


----------



## James N

I wil just keep replacing it, til i get a good one. Amazon sends out replacements asap.


----------



## maxkill

Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. If anyone has any info of this "how to change X and Y axis independently of each other" on the g303 it would be amazing!
I've searched the internet for 15 hours to no avail about this. I need this in some games I play.
Even if tricking computer to think g303 is another mouse or whatever to get the independant x y sliders working for this... Anyone?


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxkill*
> 
> Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. If anyone has any info of this "how to change X and Y axis independently of each other" on the g303 it would be amazing!
> I've searched the internet for 15 hours to no avail about this. I need this in some games I play.
> Even if tricking computer to think g303 is another mouse or whatever to get the independant x y sliders working for this... Anyone?


The option is in Logitech Gaming Software suite under Pointer Settings. Not really that hard to find. You tick the box and it gives you separate DPI options.


----------



## maxkill

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by [B]Soo8[/B] [URL=https://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/6000#post_25045559][IMG alt="View Post"]https://www.overclock.net/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/URL]

The option is in Logitech Gaming Software suite under Pointer Settings. Not really that hard to find. You tick the box and it gives you separate DPI options.[/QUOTE]
I hope you are correct but think not unfortunately

I've rechecked many times but can not find the settings.


----------



## Soo8

Ehhh. Works on my part.

Maybe the profiles are disabling the option?


----------



## maxkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Ehhh. Works on my part.
> 
> Maybe the profiles are disabling the option?


Oh really :O

This would be perfect! You have the g303 and this option I take it, what exact software are you using?


----------



## Soo8

I'm currently on a G400. But the G303 I used had that option as well. I'm using the latest LGS from Logitech's site.


----------



## maxkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> I'm currently on a G400. But the G303 I used had that option as well. I'm using the latest LGS from Logitech's site.


Oh, well I use the latest lgs software. I guess they might have disabled it if you say this worked for your g303 mouse on older software. Do you remember what lgs version you used that worked with the separate axis?

I put it on automatic game detection, I presume this is the option I need to put it on, not onboard memory.

edit: It unfortunately seems to be a firmware thing, since I installed the oldest lgs software available from june 2015 or something, and still no separate x y axis. :/

Any idea how to rollback firmware on the mouse and try it?


----------



## Soo8

At the time I had 8.7x.xx drivers. Try messing around with the profiles. Maybe defaulting the mouse and see if it shows the separate X and Y option.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Did you use regular/scotch tape as the base before adding the gaffer tape? If you didn't, I suggest you remove the gaffer tape and do so. The adhesive from the gaffer tape is more sticky than that of regular tape. The adhesive from regular tape will be easier to remove.


I didn't use any other tape besides the gaffer but this gaffer tape doesn't leave any sticky residue so I won't have to use other tape as base. The tape is called "Professional Premium Grade Gaffer Tape" made by Gaffer Power. Link to the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Premium-Grade-Gaffer-Power%C2%AE/dp/B00GZE3UJ8

I made some changes as well and the mouse is so much more comfortable now. The left side from the top resembles a g100s' left side I think. I used as little tape as possible and I found the way I taped to be the most I can put(as far as I can tell, for now) on it without changing its weight significantly. I can probably remove some tape from the left side without the back left edge pinching my palm though
Pics:




It's a bit difficult to get used to aiming with this reformed shape but I'm putting in hours dm'ing in cs:go and trying to get used to it


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

So I went to a local Best Buy today, found a G303, and, surprise, it's actually pretty comfy for me to hold! Question since I'm pretty close to buying one: Should you install Logitech's mouse software for the G303? I remember reading on these forums that mouse software is coded poorly and interpolates mouse movement, so it's better to stick with the default plug-and-play driver.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> So I went to a local Best Buy today, found a G303, and, surprise, it's actually pretty comfy for me to hold! Question since I'm pretty close to buying one: Should you install Logitech's mouse software for the G303? I remember reading on these forums that mouse software is coded poorly and interpolates mouse movement, so it's better to stick with the default plug-and-play driver.


The software is fine.


----------



## maxkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> At the time I had 8.7x.xx drivers. Try messing around with the profiles. Maybe defaulting the mouse and see if it shows the separate X and Y option.


Okay so I plugged in a old win 7 harddrive and installed oldest lgs software from may 2015 and still no separate x y dpi settings. So we can pretty much rule out the lgs software version.

So anyone know of any way to rollback built mouse *firmware* and where to find this firmware if so?

I really need this setting to be enabled.


----------



## Melan

3366 doesn't have separate axis controls afaik.


----------



## maxkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> 3366 doesn't have separate axis controls afaik.


Umm well this other guy says he had this setting! You sure can't be enabled on the g303 mouse?


----------



## Melan

Through LGS? Pretty sure.


----------



## maxkill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Through LGS? Pretty sure.


Okay. Is there another way? Any help would be fantastic, I'm stuck atm.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxkill*
> 
> Okay. Is there another way? Any help would be fantastic, I'm stuck atm.


g100s has separate x and y axis for dpi if u wanna try that mouse


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> So I went to a local Best Buy today, found a G303, and, surprise, it's actually pretty comfy for me to hold! Question since I'm pretty close to buying one: Should you install Logitech's mouse software for the G303? I remember reading on these forums that mouse software is coded poorly and interpolates mouse movement, so it's better to stick with the default plug-and-play driver.


It grows on you. It's the best mouse I have yet, but at a cost. I have medium to small hands and thankfully I have a hybrid claw grip that caters to the G303's shape. I've been aiming more precise and reacting quickly due to it's light weight with quick swipes here and there. But I said it was at a cost. Gaming with this thing for me for over an hour tends get my wrist sore and cramped up. It's definitely not one of Logitech's ergonomic mice in their lineup. Coming from an EC2-A, I didn't think the G303 would be a game changer. To me, it is. It's also got some of the BEST M1 and M2 buttons I have ever used. Whenever click latency tests are done, this mouse always seems to be the benchmark for comparison.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> It grows on you. It's the best mouse I have yet, but at a cost. I have medium to small hands and thankfully I have a hybrid claw grip that caters to the G303's shape. I've been aiming more precise and reacting quickly due to it's light weight with quick swipes here and there. But I said it was at a cost. Gaming with this thing for me for over an hour tends get my wrist sore and cramped up. It's definitely not one of Logitech's ergonomic mice in their lineup. Coming from an EC2-A, I didn't think the G303 would be a game changer. To me, it is. It's also got some of the BEST M1 and M2 buttons I have ever used. Whenever click latency tests are done, this mouse always seems to be the benchmark for comparison.


well the roccat kone pure black editon is 2 ms faster (click latency).


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> well the roccat kone pure black editon is 2 ms faster (click latency).


I agree. I think the Roccat Kone Pure's M1 and M2 buttons are fantastic. They feel not too crisp and not too stiff (take note, Zowie! Ha ha). The right side of the KP has this weird groove on it that cramps up my ring and pinky finger. Other than that, it was a fantastic mouse that I enjoyed for a few months till I gave it away to my cousin.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Okay, is it wrong that my DA feels still more responsive than even the PMW3366 in my G303? It might be the feet, since I have TigerGaming on the DA,but it just feels more responsive...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> I didn't use any other tape besides the gaffer but this gaffer tape doesn't leave any sticky residue so I won't have to use other tape as base. The tape is called "Professional Premium Grade Gaffer Tape" made by Gaffer Power. Link to the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Premium-Grade-Gaffer-Power%C2%AE/dp/B00GZE3UJ8


It wasn't a problem for me until I took it off years later. That's why, on my ZA13, I put regular tape on before the gaffer tape. Maybe the tape you are using won't have that issue. I had to warn you just in case -- that way you won't need to use lighter fluid to remove the adhesive.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay, is it wrong that my DA feels still more responsive than even the PMW3366 in my G303? It might be the feet, since I have TigerGaming on the DA,but it just feels more responsive...


no it also feels more responisv to me.. its the most responsive mouse on the market. Thats one of the main goals from the Deathadder.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I agree. I think the Roccat Kone Pure's M1 and M2 buttons are fantastic. They feel not too crisp and not too stiff (take note, Zowie! Ha ha). The right side of the KP has this weird groove on it that cramps up my ring and pinky finger. Other than that, it was a fantastic mouse that I enjoyed for a few months till I gave it away to my cousin.


I think the KPM doesnt have a perfect shape, bit at least 200x better than the G303. I would giv the shape 6/10 while i would giv the G303 3/10.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> no it also feels more responisv to me.. its the most responsive mouse on the market. Thats one of the main goals from the Deathadder.


3310 is painfully sluggish, but I didn't expect the 3366 to feel "swamp"ish compared to the S3988. Gosh but do I love the shape of the G303.
I still believe some of the responsiveness is due the mouse feet. The DA glides as if it's on ice, while my stock G303 feels glued to the pad. To those with takasta's feet, do they glide better than stock feet + competition or regular?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 3310 is painfully sluggish, but I didn't expect the 3366 to feel "swamp"ish compared to the S3988.


When I am using my ZA13, on a hard mat with a logo, it pauses for a noticeable amount of time as I pass over the logo. I don't think that happens with any of my non 3310 mice.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> When I am using my ZA13, on a hard mat with a logo, it pauses for a noticeable amount of time as I pass over the logo. I don't think that happens with any of my non 3310 mice.


I'm very dissapointed in Zowie's implementation of the 3310. 3366 is so much better and so is S3988.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I'm very dissapointed in Zowie's implementation of the 3310. 3366 is so much better and so is S3988.


I agree. I've used the EC2-A, Castor and Fnatic Flick G1 and for some reason, the 3310 on the EC2-A just doesn't feel as snappy that sensor's implementation on the other 2 I mentioned.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> When I am using my ZA13, on a hard mat with a logo, it pauses for a noticeable amount of time as I pass over the logo. I don't think that happens with any of my non 3310 mice.


That has never happened to me on the blue G-SR (name? Cloth at least) with the white logo in the middle. But I've heard many people having problems with 3310 on hard pads. I don't have a hard pad myself so I can't test it. Do you know any big hard pads, might want to test one someday.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> That has never happened to me on the blue G-SR (name? Cloth at least) with the white logo in the middle. But I've heard many people having problems with 3310 on hard pads. I don't have a hard pad myself so I can't test it. Do you know any big hard pads, might want to test one someday.


The only hard pads I have used were an aluminum SteelSeries pad and a generic plastic with two different sides. I no longer buy hard pads because I can't transport them and get the size I want.


----------



## Bucake

the 3310 mice i've had tracked like absolute garbage on all hard pads i owned. they would just stop tracking all the time. literally unusable.
but it's not the only sensor that i've had that had trouble on hard pads, so i feel i can't entirely "blame" the 3310 specifically.

funnily enough.. the MLT04 seems to track on everything (relatively). it tracks great on cloth, aluminium, plastic, different colors, patterns, etc. all newer sensors i own are (way) more picky. either the tracking just goes to crap or there will be other inconveniences like high LOD, lowered perfect tracking speed, excessive jitter, etc.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> the 3310 mice i've had tracked like absolute garbage on all hard pads i owned. they would just stop tracking all the time. literally unusable.
> but it's not the only sensor that i've had that had trouble on hard pads, so i feel i can't entirely "blame" the 3310 specifically.
> 
> funnily enough.. the MLT04 seems to track on everything (relatively). it tracks great on cloth, aluminium, plastic, different colors, patterns, etc. all newer sensors i own are (way) more picky. either the tracking just goes to crap or there will be other inconveniences like high LOD, lowered perfect tracking speed, excessive jitter, etc.


Well I mean you can't get much higher of a LOD or lower perfect tracking speed than the MLT04 so there isn't as much to mess up







. I thought optical sensors were supposed to track well on hard pads. There was that logitech video where Morier said a textured black plastic was the best for tracking with optical sensors.


----------



## qsxcv

wat? mlt04 lod is low for me. not 3366 low, but lower than am010 for sure


----------



## chr1spe

I didn't measure the IMO1.1 I had, but that had to be at least 2CDs probably 3 and maybe more. I guess I really should try another MLT04 mouse though. My entire experience seems different than other peoples. I literally couldn't use the mouse due to the sensor. I had quite a few problems due to the PCS and the LOD made it very difficult for me to use. It was honestly my least favorite mouse I've ever used. I hated the shape as well though.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay, is it wrong that my DA feels still more responsive than even the PMW3366 in my G303? It might be the feet, since I have TigerGaming on the DA,but it just feels more responsive...


Last time I used DA Chroma was 4 months ago. Back then the sensor felt good but definitely not more responsive than 3366. But then again I don't know what happened after that or if they released udates.

What cpi do you use?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Last time I used DA Chroma was 4 months ago. Back then the sensor felt good but definitely not more responsive than 3366. But then again I don't know what happened after that or if they released udates.
> 
> What cpi do you use?


I owned a DA:Chroma before I gave it away due to the size too large for me. I definitely would say the sensor's implementation for the DA felt snappier. Almost as if 800dpi was really 900 dpi. But I could be wrong. I have many mice. Of the EC2-A, Fnatic Flick G1 and DA:Chroma, I'd say the EC2-A was the slowest and the DA:Chroma was the most responsive. Again, it could be because gaming at 800dpi via Razer's Synapse software is really 850dpi or higher (at least it feels that way). Overall, I think the sensor in the DA is pretty good.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay, is it wrong that my DA feels still more responsive than even the PMW3366 in my G303? It might be the feet, *since I have TigerGaming* on the DA,but it just feels more responsive...


About time people stop exchanging friction and grip properties for sensor behaviors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> no it also feels more responisv to me.. its the most responsive mouse on the market. Thats one of the main goals from the Deathadder.


Please.


----------



## James N

Ok for anyone who is interested, i received my replacement. This time the sensor wobble was even worse than on the first one. On top of that, the mousecord was so bent, that i could not straighten it out (the cord was pretty much bent 180 degrees towards the mouse itself 4 cm where the cord leaves the mouse).

Third time lucky? Let's see.

Batch 4382


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> Ok for anyone who is interested, i received my replacement. This time the sensor wobble even worse than the first one. On top of that, the mousecord was so bent, that i could not straighten it out (the cord was pretty much bent 180 degrees towards the mouse itself 4 cm where the cord leaves the mouse).
> 
> Damn i am lucky. Third time lucky? Let's see.


Seriously, if you have a Best Buy nearby, buy your G303 there. Heck, they let me open the box before I purchased it. That way, you can determine whether or not there's serious sensor rattle or not. I was lucky to get a copy that had almost no sensor rattle at all (I literally would need to shake the crap out of it just to hear some 'rattle').

As for the cord, I sorta had to live with it. I use a cheap $5 mouse bungee that I got from Amazon and it does the trick. But once you're all situated with this mouse, it's pretty fantastic to use.

Good luck to ya!


----------



## killuchen

Do I have my mouse cord setup correctly on my bungee? Should i tighten it? Lol


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have my mouse cord setup correctly on my bungee? Should i tighten it? Lol


Here you go..


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have my mouse cord setup correctly on my bungee? Should i tighten it? Lol


Nice! You actually got your hands on a Camade? It's whatever suits your play style. I generally have mine setup with enough slack so that my mouse isn't tugging on the bungee too much whenever I reach the edge of my mouse pad.

The G303 may have a thick braided cable, but I think the most difficult one to work with in my experience is the Fnatic Gear G1's - it's as if they saturated their braided cables in starch or something.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Here you go..


Thank you









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Nice! You actually got your hands on a Camade? It's whatever suits your play style. I generally have mine setup with enough slack so that my mouse isn't tugging on the bungee too much whenever I reach the edge of my mouse pad.
> 
> The G303 may have a thick braided cable, but I think the most difficult one to work with in my experience is the Fnatic Gear G1's - it's as if they saturated their braided cables in starch or something.


Haha thanks! I got it as a bundle with my za11. I think it cost like $10 at the time. I kind of like the fact that the cord on the g303 is thicker. It fits the bungee more imo. Thank you for the advice! I think I'm going to adjust it.


----------



## Melan

God damn this mouse is slippery on 800 cpi and 1khz. I still can't get this thing to work for me without dropping down to 500hz or doing surface calibration.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay, is it wrong that my DA feels still more responsive than even the PMW3366 in my G303? It might be the feet, since I have TigerGaming on the DA,but it just feels more responsive...


I still remember when I was the first person who wrote about this ages ago and I was flamed relentlessly for it, by a bunch of toxic forum Nazis.
This was later discussed at length by people who were debugging the sensor, yet no apology was even given the original (not by the same trolls) inflammatory insulting comments towards me (even if I didn't know the right terms--I'm just a gamer, after all, it doesn't give jerks the right to insult me). I believe I called it a "dead zone" at that time. Like, sue me for not being a mouse maker who knows the exact term....

the "responsiveness" issue you are seeing is some sort of movement compensation that the 3.5G deathadder sensor does to pick up movements in the opposite direction as soon as the mouse is given data. It's not something that is considered "normal" behavior for a sensor, as I do think this is srom related, but it's done deliberately to improve pixel aiming on extremely tiny movements.

This ONLY affects movement switching from one axis to another (left to right, right to left, up to down, etc).

The original Deathadder 3G does not do this at the same DPI (1800). I don't know about the 2013 and newer versions, but it definitely improved pixel aiming in the 3.5g/black edition.

To get this type of pixel response on the PMW 3366 for 1 pixel "switching" movements requires around 4000 DPI.

I believe this was discussed in a Logitech factory video some time ago.

*edit*
For those of you who complained so hard about the G402 cable (not g303), try using the deathadder black edition and THEN complain about the Logitech cable.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> *edit*
> For those of you who complained so hard about the G402 cable (not g303), try using the deathadder black edition and THEN complain about the Logitech cable.


I don't have much trouble with the BE DeathAdder's cable because I can bend it to the shape/placement I need and it will stay there (similar to the G100s cable).


----------



## chr1spe

Well measurements do show the deathadder is not as responsive as the pwm3366. I have no clue what you are talking about with deadzones and movement in the opposite direction and whatnot though.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well measurements do show the deathadder is not as responsive as the pwm3366. I have no clue what you are talking about with deadzones and movement in the opposite direction and whatnot though.


Basically, my DA feels as if it's on higher DPI. Probably because of better aftermarket feet on it, I prefer not to start a sensor war in here.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Basically, my DA feels as if it's on higher DPI. Probably because of better aftermarket feet on it, I prefer not to start a sensor war in here.


I agree! When I had my DA:Chroma, it felt like I was on 900dpi despite Razer Synapse stating I was on 800dpi.

And yeah, I don't understand the "XXXX sensor is inferior to XXXX sensor! You don't know what you're talking about!" --- I really don't think the better sensor makes you a better player in whatever game you play. It helps, but it's like saying this camera is better than that camera so I should be able to shoot pics like Ansel Adams, right?


----------



## Falkentyne

For cm/360 test comparing Deathadder 3.5G and Logitech G502:

G502 needs to be at 1800 DPI to match Deathadder 3.5G at 1600 DPI.

I tested this extensively in Unreal Tournament 2004 (which was known to get negative acceleration if you went too fast, even if you are not at the sensor limit) and Team fortress 2 (without the acceleration bug of the UT engine).

the "deadzone" issue also gives the illusion that the Deathadder is more responsive (even at 1600 DA 3.5g=1800 Logitech).
The 3.5g has some sort of artificial compensation built into it to improve pixel switching responsiveness. The 3G deathadder and G502 do not.


----------



## Bucake

but you mustn't confuse high cpi with responsive, guys..
if a mouse feels fast.. then just call it fast?

responsive is a what you'd call a quick response to physical movement, as in low latency/delay.
if you claim that the DA chroma is more responsive and people complain about it, it's because it's not true. it has higher motion latency than for example the G303.
people are not complaining about the fact that you like the (feel of the) DA more than the G303, but about wrong claims. just use the right word to describe what you experience and no-one should bother you about your opinion.

i feel like there's just misunderstanding after misunderstanding simply because wrong terms/words are being used.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> the "deadzone" issue also gives the illusion that the Deathadder is more responsive (even at 1600 DA 3.5g=1800 Logitech).
> The 3.5g has some sort of artificial compensation built into it to improve pixel switching responsiveness. The 3G deathadder and G502 do not.


how do you know this? about the compensation?
there have been plenty of claims about the 3g and 3.5g feeling different, but i've never seen any proof, tests or explanations. i remember skylit saying nothing is different except for LOD. i'm still curious tbh

also, did you make sure with something like MouseTester that you were actually on 1600 and 1800? it's quite common for cpi-steps to be off from the advertised ones, especially with stacked feet or certain surfaces.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> but you mustn't confuse high cpi with responsive, guys..
> if a mouse feels fast.. then just call it fast?
> 
> responsive is a what you'd call a quick response to physical movement, as in low latency/delay.
> if you claim that the DA chroma is more responsive and people complain about it, it's because it's not true. it has higher motion latency than for example the G303.
> people are not complaining about the fact that you like the (feel of the) DA more than the G303, but about wrong claims. just use the right word to describe what you experience and no-one should bother you about your opinion.
> 
> i feel like there's just misunderstanding after misunderstanding simply because wrong terms/words are being used.
> how do you know this? about the compensation?
> there have been plenty of claims about the 3g and 3.5g feeling different, but i've never seen any proof, tests or explanations. i remember skylit saying nothing is different except for LOD. i'm still curious tbh
> 
> also, did you make sure with something like MouseTester that you were actually on 1600 and 1800? it's quite common for cpi-steps to be off from the advertised ones, especially with stacked feet or certain surfaces.


^This

Also he basically just said that part of what he was talking about was a CPI miss match as far as I can tell because he said that he needed to set 1800 CPI on the G502 to get the same distance to 360 as the DA set to 1600. That in no way has anything to remotely do with responsiveness as you said though. I'm really confused by what this guy is trying to say. I have no clue what "pixel switching responsiveness" would refer to on a mouse. It sounds like he is talking about pixel response times on a monitor to me, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what he is talking about.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> but you mustn't confuse high cpi with responsive, guys..
> if a mouse feels fast.. then just call it fast?
> 
> responsive is a what you'd call a quick response to physical movement, as in low latency/delay.
> if you claim that the DA chroma is more responsive and people complain about it, it's because it's not true. it has higher motion latency than for example the G303.
> people are not complaining about the fact that you like the (feel of the) DA more than the G303, but about wrong claims. just use the right word to describe what you experience and no-one should bother you about your opinion.
> 
> i feel like there's just misunderstanding after misunderstanding simply because wrong terms/words are being used.
> how do you know this? about the compensation?
> there have been plenty of claims about the 3g and 3.5g feeling different, but i've never seen any proof, tests or explanations. i remember skylit saying nothing is different except for LOD. i'm still curious tbh
> 
> also, did you make sure with something like MouseTester that you were actually on 1600 and 1800? it's quite common for cpi-steps to be off from the advertised ones, especially with stacked feet or certain surfaces.


How do I know this? Because I tested it directly.
Because I have a 3G V2, 3.5g (BE) and a G502 and G900










The 3.5G BE was my daily driver until I got the G502 and the first thing I noticed was that I could not pixel aim to drop sight wards on the very edges of brush pixels on the G502, without having to work much harder to move the mouse a pixel (nothing to do with weight). It was only after I did a cursor test that I saw what was happening.

G502 and Deathadder 3G V2 worked the same way. Black Edition (3.5G) reacted much faster to a single pixel movement.
this has nothing to do with LAG. The 3G deathadder and the G502 both required more movement to register a 1 pixel change in direction than the 3.5G BE. All were set to 1800 DPI.

I've owned a lot of mice.
I just don't have the V1 3G deathadder anymore







I think it broke or I threw it away







You know, the one that allowed you to put a red sensor in without any extra work...


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I could not pixel aim to drop sight wards on the very edges of brush pixels on the G502, without having to work much harder to move the mouse a pixel (nothing to do with weight).


What does this mean. Your English makes very little sense at times and it makes it entirely impossible to understand what you are actually trying to describe. I'm fairly certain it isn't responsiveness, but I couldn't tell you what it is.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> ^This
> 
> Also he basically just said that part of what he was talking about was a CPI miss match as far as I can tell because he said that he needed to set 1800 CPI on the G502 to get the same distance to 360 as the DA set to 1600. That in no way has anything to remotely do with responsiveness as you said though. I'm really confused by what this guy is trying to say. I have no clue what "pixel switching responsiveness" would refer to on a mouse. It sounds like he is talking about pixel response times on a monitor to me, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what he is talking about.


I don't know what I'm talking about?
I've been using mice since the original Intellimouse optical days of the very low max speed (worthless for FPS) versions, and I'm not some know it all teenager. I'm a 44 year old adult. I think I know full well what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be posting here.

Insult me again and you will not get any more of my help.

Just because 1 mouse has 1600 dpi and a 2nd mouse has 1600 dpi does NOT mean that BOTH mice require the same amount of physical movement to register a pixel switch in the opposite direction. I believe Chris Pate called this "Pixel Walk". This is NOT input lag or response time.

You haven't tested the Deathadder 3G, 3.5G and 3366 in moving 1 pixel left and right. I have. Do NOT try to act like an expert on something I have tested and you have not. I don't appreciate ignorant people.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> What does this mean. Your English makes very little sense at times and it makes it entirely impossible to understand what you are actually trying to describe. I'm fairly certain it isn't responsiveness, but I couldn't tell you what it is.


My English makes very little sense?
I am an American born 44 year old adult. I'm sorry that I don't work at Logitech or razer. The term is pixel walk, I'm rather sure.
I'm done posting here. You evil, selfish rude people are not worth my time or effort. Enjoy your mice.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know what I'm talking about?
> I've been using mice since the original Intellimouse optical days of the very low max speed (worthless for FPS) versions, and I'm not some know it all teenager. I'm a 44 year old adult. I think I know full well what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be posting here.
> 
> Insult me again and you will not get any more of my help.


I'm not trying to insult you I'm trying to help you get what you are saying across in a manor that is actually intelligible to other people. I've been using optical mice since 2000 or 2001 when they first started really becoming a thing as well, but that doesn't actually mean anything at all. How you feel a mouse acts can be drastically different than what is actually happening and you need to be careful to describe what you are feeling accurately, admit that "feeling" isn't an accurate form of measurement, actually do some sort of test that is reliable and reproducible if you want to actually make a claim about something, and describe it in a manner that is accurate and understandable if you actually want to have any sort of conversation.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I'm not trying to insult you I'm trying to help you get what you are saying across in a manor that is actually intelligible to other people. I've been using optical mice since 2000 or 2001 when they first started really becoming a thing as well, but that doesn't actually mean anything at all. How you feel a mouse acts can be drastically different than what is actually happening and you need to be careful to describe what you are feeling accurately, admit that "feeling" isn't an accurate form of measurement, actually do some sort of test that is reliable and reproducible if you want to actually make a claim about something, and describe it in a manner that is accurate and understandable if you actually want to have any sort of conversation.


You don't understand.
When I *DID* use SIMPLE English, back when the G502 was brand new, I got relentlessly FLAMED for it. I called it a "DEAD ZONE"
Now that I used a more complicated explanation to explain it, people are STILL flaming.

If I shipped you a 3G, 3.5G and a G502 to test it and you saw it for yourself, you would fully understand.
I was only trying to answer why the other person said his deathadder (3.5G) felt more "responsive'. It was because of registering 1 pixel changes of direction with less motion required. The 3G deathadder acts like the G502.

I've tested all three mice.
Anyway I helped all I can. I have to work to do now. And I'm extremely angry.


----------



## Maximillion

This discussion seems to be going nowhere, but I really want to try a 3.5G DA now


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I'm not trying to insult you I'm trying to help you get what you are saying across in a manor that is actually intelligible to other people
> MANOR
> .


Just a pro tip. Don't criticize others' grammar if you make mistakes like that.
Just ask him to clarify what he means, instead of being impatient. Makes the forum a better place.

But yeah, pixelwalk is the term used by Logitech, which is what it refers to. It is very hard to measure sensor accuracy in paint with equipment, so yes there is some feel involved. Some things are meant to be regarded as subjective / tested subjectively.


----------



## Maximillion

Hey, just because he wants to take this debate to a leisurely countryside manor that's no reason to scold the guy. I suppose the comfort of such a venue would ease the tension and make the discussion a bit easier to grasp for all of us.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Just a pro tip. Don't criticize others' grammar if you make mistakes like that.
> Just ask him to clarify what he means, instead of being impatient. Makes the forum a better place.
> 
> But yeah, pixelwalk is the term used by Logitech, which is what it refers to. It is very hard to measure sensor accuracy in paint with equipment, so yes there is some feel involved. Some things are meant to be regarded as subjective / tested subjectively.


It wasn't really about the grammar. It was about the fact that what he said seems completely incomprehensible. I have no clue what "drop sight wards" is supposed to mean whereas with my small error it is clear what I meant to write. Also I didn't mean to be impatient and I didn't ever say he doesn't know what he is talking about like he claims. I just said what he is writing does not make sense. A spelling mistake is completely different than saying something which completely doesn't make sense.


----------



## 44TZL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> also, did you make sure with something like MouseTester that you were actually on 1600 and 1800? it's quite common for cpi-steps to be off from the advertised ones, especially with stacked feet or certain surfaces.


Spot on comment in my view... I recently compared the 303, DA Chroma, Zowie EC-1A, Mionix Naos 7000 and Taipan to see the differences for myself... the 303 had to be set to 1400cpi, the DA to 1550 to actually be 1600cpi. Once I create a level playing field, the differences in 'feel/responsiveness' between mice reduced a lot.

One technical thing I test is drawing very quick circles and see if on screen the 'circle' walks in a certain direction. Only the 303 managed to stay in the same spot. The Zowie however scored higher in Enotus mouse test accuracy (it tests slow movement accuracy).

Anyway after testing all of them the only conclusion I drew from it that any technological superiority around pixelwalk, small lag difference..are all beaten by a superior shape / weight that fits best with your (1) grip (2) size of hand and (3) playstyle.

- the Naos 7000 and EC-1A share the same sensor, but my hitstats drop dramatically with the Naos 7000- (worst of all mice mentioned, despite the Taipan being inaccurate)
- The 303's sensor feels best in tracking but can't beat the Zowie for my grip/handsize/playstyle in hitstats.. or long term comfort (big hands + 303.. no)

So anyway I am no longer all that hung up on tech specs, I would focus on getting a mouse that fits you once it's technology is up there with the best mice. Follow some of the 30+ mouse reviews of 'Rocket Jump Ninja' on youtube.. he's a skilled player and got the whole handsize + gripstyle thing well worked out in my opinion.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ok guys here are my awesome MS Paint skills.

This is the best way to describe what you were experiencing with the Deathadder (3.5G) vs the 3366 sensor and the 3G deathadder V3 (I actually think my working one is V3; I had a V2 but I believe that broke a long time ago









You can call it dead zone, Pixel walk, whatever, but when switching directions, the Deathadder 3.5G requires LESS physical movement for the cursor to change position than either the 3G Deathadder (release edition version) or the 3366 sensor.

All mice are set to 1800 DPI. Both deathadders are using hyperglides.
Just pretend the dot in the middle is the "starting" pixel position for the mouse. You can see there's some sort of processing or something going on with the 3.5G when you switch pixel directions.

The 3366 sensor performs like the right circle "deadzone" (in amount of distance required to register a pixel change in direction) when it's at 4000 DPI'ish.


----------



## chr1spe

Does the size of the center dot represent anything there or are you just making that larger to make the area you are labeling the dead zone smaller? Also this only occurs when changing directions?


----------



## Falkentyne

The size of the center dot represents the starting "pixel". That was the only way to scale it without making the "second" pixel zone smaller, while showing the "dead zone" explanation I was trying to talk about.

Sorry I'm not exactly good at drawing stuff.
The width of the circle ring is how far you have to move normally.
So the G502 and DA 3G has the same distance.
you can see on the G502, it remains constant pixel to pixel even when changing directions.

I did it to illustrate the 'dead zone' comparison.
Yes, this only happens when changing directions.
the center dot of the Black Edition is representative of changing directions, relative to the "dead zone"

(you can only tell if you are moving the mouse very slowly, e.g. trying to change from 1 pixel to another).

Heh now that I look at the picture, I think I could have done a much better job than the oversized pixel







I just wanted to illustrate the dead zone effect being less on the Deathadder 3.5G, that's all.

I'll probably do another one that makes more sense.


----------



## chr1spe

I don't really understand what the size of the starting pixel would be or why it would be a different size at the same CPI though I do now understand what you are trying to say for the most part I think. I also don't really feel any noticeable difference in the motion to move one more pixel in the same direction or move a pixel in the opposite direction while moving the mouse very slowly. Apparently I'm not nearly as coordinated and confident about my ability to discern differences in micrometer scale movements as many people on this forum though.


----------



## TriviumKM

Just because you set all mice to 1800 dpi doesn't mean they are all 1800 dpi. You should double check that the dpi actually matches; measure it using something like mousetester.


----------



## Falkentyne

I'm not a hardware tester nor do I know how to use mousetester so I won't bother. I don't even understand the program. I have other things to focus on in my life.

As I said before, 1600 DPI on Deathadder 3.5G= roughly 1800 DPI on Logitech G502, in my 45cm/360 test. that doesn't affect the 'deadzone' thing. As I said before I need 4000 DPI on the 3366 to equal the 3.5G DA and that's an estimate from feel.

If you don't like my conclusions please add me to your ignore list. I have other things to do.


----------



## Falkentyne

Here's a better representation, sorry guys.


----------



## Alya

Despite the snarky attitude which I find unneeded, I do find this quite interesting, sure physical feeling is entirely subjective but humans can definitely feel when something feels different or slightly off/processed, it may not be objective but he does bring up a point which I find interesting about pixel or movement dead zones, do you have an MLT04 mouse by chance? If so, could you compare that as well? I've heard the MLT04 has a pixel dead zone and I'd like to see all 3 mice compared. Thanks.


----------



## Falkentyne

I did. It was an IME 1.1. I gave it to someone in 2006 or 2007, I forgot. It was after I bought the original deathadder. I didn't think I needed the MLT anymore as I couldn't handle the 400 dpi (im low sens).


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I'm not a hardware tester nor do I know how to use mousetester so I won't bother.


yea... you'd need one of these to test it
http://www.newport.com/XY-Linear-Translation-Stages/1008296/1033/content.aspx

but imo it's not very important unless you're using very high sens


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

Just picked up the G303 today. My experience with it has been pretty much the polar opposite of many in this thread who find it uncomfortable, but easy to aim. I find the mouse very comfortable. The slanted sides are perfect for traction on a claw grip, and the corners of the diamond are placed perfectly so that you can manipulate the mouse by pulling down with your thumb and ring finger. I think that this design and the design with an high extended ring/pinky ridge (like the CMStorm Xornet) are probably the ultimate shapes for claw grips.

The problem, though? I can't aim this thing for beans. Doing aim_training on CS:GO with Friberg's settings (



), I still score low-mid 70's which is only a little lower than what I score with the WMO. But when it comes to aim in DM and comp, it's just a mess. Best Buy gives me two weeks to mess around with this this before I can't return it anymore, so I'll see if it gets better from here. It's still depressing me that my performance with the WMO is so far above everything else, especially since the click delay and click feel is SO much better on the G303.


----------



## coldc0ffee

For me, pointer manipulation in windows with my g303 was amazing. Felt such precision and control with it. Now when it came to aiming in-game, I was pretty much all over the place. Well, not all over the place but not very accurate let's just say


----------



## emexci

after i return my g303 because of rattle i used yesterday my microsoft intelliexplorer 1.1 mouse and wow. everyone called me hacker and wished cancer for me. that was very interesting.









edit: game is black ops 3 mp hc sd


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Just picked up the G303 today. My experience with it has been pretty much the polar opposite of many in this thread who find it uncomfortable, but easy to aim. I find the mouse very comfortable. The slanted sides are perfect for traction on a claw grip, and the corners of the diamond are placed perfectly so that you can manipulate the mouse by pulling down with your thumb and ring finger. I think that this design and the design with an high extended ring/pinky ridge (like the CMStorm Xornet) are probably the ultimate shapes for claw grips.
> 
> The problem, though? I can't aim this thing for beans. Doing aim_training on CS:GO with Friberg's settings (
> 
> 
> 
> ), I still score low-mid 70's which is only a little lower than what I score with the WMO. But when it comes to aim in DM and comp, it's just a mess. Best Buy gives me two weeks to mess around with this this before I can't return it anymore, so I'll see if it gets better from here. It's still depressing me that my performance with the WMO is so far above everything else, especially since the click delay and click feel is SO much better on the G303.


I had to lower my sens from 1.7 to 1.6 (@400DPI) after getting the G303. It is so much lighter and glided better than my Rival. After lowering the sens I started doing better.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> I just received my G303 from amazon. i placed some black electric tape on top the sensorhole and shook it. The lens rattle noise was pretty quiet (not as loud as described or shown by some poeple), but i was still able to see the cursor move. I also tested it with the "mouse tester" software. Batch number 4382 .
> 
> 
> So yea, still not fixed. Which is a shame, the sensor feels amazing. Let's see how often i have to return it, to get a good one. I will let you guys know.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> If the speed goes below 0, it's the sensor rattle or what?


I didn't see this answered yet: speed going below zero just means that the mouse is moving in a different direction. Like after a quick flick right you swipe back a bit to the left. What you see here might also be lifting the mouse just slightly, hitting the edge of the pad or something else. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## zaQon

Man I forgot to thank that guy with tape trick. I rmaed my G502 because its easy to show sensor rattle with this method. Hey can anyone answer why im having 12k hz ? https://i.gyazo.com/bc056a5f2176b6251cf6366d99206ae8.png windows10 ?


----------



## Bucake

how fast after receiving the mouse do you guys say you do not aim well with it? i mean.. if i switch between mice, it can take 2+ hours for me to really get used the the different shape.
i can imagine it could be even more if the mouse was totally new to me. and you might have to find your "new sens" with it, as well.
just saying give it a fair chance 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> As I said before, 1600 DPI on Deathadder 3.5G= roughly 1800 DPI on Logitech G502, in my 45cm/360 test. that doesn't affect the 'deadzone' thing. As I said before I need 4000 DPI on the 3366 to equal the 3.5G DA and that's an estimate from feel.


if the old DA is set to 1600cpi wouldn't it be throwing away counts because of interpolation down from 1800 or 3500?

also thanks for the pictures, i'll be testing this later today. 
unfortunately i don't have a 3366 mouse, so i guess i'll just test it against all the mice i have on my desk here.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> Just picked up the G303 today. My experience with it has been pretty much the polar opposite of many in this thread who find it uncomfortable, but easy to aim. I find the mouse very comfortable. The slanted sides are perfect for traction on a claw grip, and the corners of the diamond are placed perfectly so that you can manipulate the mouse by pulling down with your thumb and ring finger. I think that this design and the design with an high extended ring/pinky ridge (like the CMStorm Xornet) are probably the ultimate shapes for claw grips.


I think this is one of the best mice I've ever owned. I have medium/small hands with a hybrid claw/fingertip grip. I find it a joy to aim and it does feel comfortable, UNTIL, about 45 minutes or so, my wrist starts to feel sore. I was using it in the office one day (sort've a way for me to get used to a new mouse ---- use it at work, ha ha) and there was an ergonomics specialist that came in and was assisting us on improving our cubicle environment with desk height, posture, keyboard positioning, etc. etc. She came by my cube and saw my G303 and right off the bat she said: "That has to be one of the worst designed carpal tunnel syndrome inducing mouse I've ever seen!"


----------



## wonderboysam

4th one arrived today, rattled its way out of the box









serial no: 1549


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> 4th one arrived today, rattled its way out of the box


Wow. That's just bad quality control. I guess I'm one of the few lucky ones who got a G303 with no sensor rattle on the 2nd try. It's just sad that you can be subject to more than 1 exchange when it comes to this mouse. I've never had this issue (severe sensor rattle) with any other mouse I've bought from Mionix and Zowie. I did have a similar issue with Fnatic Gear's G1. The sensor rattle on that mouse was so bad, it sounded like there were a few loose pebbles in it!


----------



## Falkentyne

Even if you think you don't have sensor rattle, you still need to test it.
Put the mouse on a table and hold it down hard so there is no movement at all.
Then hit another part of the table close to the mouse with your hand so there is vibration/shock, but not too hard. Make sure the mouse is being held down very firmly.
If the sensor jitters around when you do this, then there is sensor rattle.


----------



## Melan

Err, no. You don't test it like that at all. All you will prove is mouse picking up vibrations when on very high CPI. Set it to 12000 and any minor vibration will set it off.


----------



## James N

I already answered it, i tested this multiple times with different mice. And while it does occur if your movement isn't clean, in this example i made sure to move it super clean. I couldn't smooth it out, with all the other mice i tested i never had those negative values when moving it correctly. And the g303 i tested definitely had the rattle, same as the second one i received. I will get a third one tomorrow and test that one as well.

Like already mentioned this test is not the easiest/safest way and was a bad example.

The best and easiest way to test it, is to set your mouse to the highest dpi value and put black electric tape on the sensorhole and then shake the mouse. If the mouse cursor moves, the mouse is faulty.

This test works 100%.

I tested the 2 G303 i received and both had the problems, the second one was worse than the first one.

ZA-11 , didn't move at all.
Deathadder, didn't move at all
G502, didn't move at all
G100s, didn't move at all


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> in this example i made sure to move it super clean.


It's obviously isn't clean. I get the same results with lens being glued onto the shell, so yeah.


----------



## James N

If your movement isnt clean, then yea.

I could not for the love of me get one without those negative values with the g303 and the mouse 100% had the sensor rattle (i tested it with the tape method).
I was able to get 8 out of 10 tries without those lines on other mice without the issue.

I already mentioned that this test method is not optimal due to human error (so please ignore this screenshot), and i provided a better way of testing it with the black electric tape.

I have plenty of other screenshots, but why should i post them to prove something, when i already mentioned that those tests are not optimal to test your mouse for the issue.

In addition i am doing this so people know that this problem isn't fixed in the latest batch that is being sold on amazon. contrary to what some poeple say that this issue has been fixed in the latest batch.


----------



## Melan

The one I got from amazon recently didn't have this issue (until I broke the lens and had to glue it). All in all it's still a lottery. To fix this you'll need to alter the pixart's way of fixing lens to the sensor, which won't happen.


----------



## James N

Good to know! So this mouse is a fail and everyone who doesn't want to fix it himself or rma it multiple times till he gets lucky should look into buying another mouse.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> Good to know! So this mouse is a fail for *everyone who plays with 8000 CPI and up* and everyone who doesn't want to fix it himself or rma it multiple times till he gets lucky should look into buying another mouse.


FTFY.


----------



## James N

I play with 400dpi and the sensor wobble was bad for me in quake and other games on fast flicks, since i play on a low sense in all fps games. Anyone who wouldn't be bothered by this, probably doesn't check this forum anyways.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Err, no. You don't test it like that at all. All you will prove is mouse picking up vibrations when on very high CPI. Set it to 12000 and any minor vibration will set it off.


Um, yes you do test it like that.
Set the mouse on 1600 DPI and test it. I never claimed it was on 12000 DPI !!!!
I only use my mice at 1600 dpi.

My G303 would 'vibrate' even if I tapped the desk LIGHTLY with my fingers.
My G502 would not move an inch unless I hit the desk hard with my fist. Even palming the desk with my hand, the G502 would not move. The same goes for the G900, although since the mouse is lighter and the feet -much- slicker (probably due to my worn out mouse pad), you have to press down even harder than the G502. The G303 would go all over the place even on very light taps. This was the giveaway.
Another test is to tap the top of the mouse case with your finger. G502 and G900=no movement. G303? You can guess.
Yet there was no rattle at all.

please think for a moment because I KNOW you are smarter than this.

is it possible for a sensor to be SLIGHTLY loose and cause cursor drifting all over the place without ANY rattle?

Of course it is.
All there needs to be is very slight play . Even a shift of a few micrometers can cause huge sensor jump.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> I play with 400dpi and the sensor wobble was bad for me in quake and other games on fast flicks, since i play on a low sense in all fps games. Anyone who wouldn't be bothered by this, probably doesn't check this forum anyways.


I can't imagine how loose lens has to be for you to notice it on 400 CPI.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> I play with 400dpi and the sensor wobble was bad for me in quake and other games on fast flicks, since i play on a low sense in all fps games. Anyone who wouldn't be bothered by this, probably doesn't check this forum anyways.


Where are you buying the G303? If you have a Frys Electronics or Best Buy nearby, you ought to just go there, open up the box and check for yourself before you buy it. The problem with this mouse is that after months of playing with it, the sensor starts to get loose with time. I just think Logitech skimped out on putting decent effort when assembling this fine mouse.


----------



## chr1spe

I must be incredibly lucky. My first G303 has an extremely faint rattle if I shake it very hard right next to my ear, but it does not have any effect on performance. I got it from best buy online during the black friday sale. I do think the tape over the sensor and shake probably works to see what is happening, but I really really doubt the reverse movement after a swipe is from sensor rattle and it is definitely pretty unscientific. Far too many people on these forums trust their movements far too much and think they are precise machines that can make perfectly reproducible movements. Also most of them look like they move way too far to be due to sensor rattle. I don't care how good your coordination is or your aim is you really can't say for certain exactly what is happening without measuring it. Also slamming the desk seems susceptible to all kinds of errors.


----------



## VESPA5

I'm one of the few lucky ones too I guess (my first one was a bummer but 2nd time is a charm, right?). This thing is fantastic if you can get past the shape and size (and if your grip caters to the shape). The implementation of this sensor is top notch and still don't think I've used switches that felt as good as these (although people have said the Roccat KPM is up there in regards to button quality).

I think the only reason I don't use this mouse so much anymore is because my wrist literally gets sore after using it for about 45 minutes. Sure, I'll be doing well at whatever FPS game I'm using it at, but oh boy, it's at a cost. It's like my wrist and part of me is telling me "Yeah, keep using that G303 and you're well on your way on the Expressway to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome". Since then, I have reverted back to my EC2-A and had to re-train myself into getting used to those damn Huano switches


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I must be incredibly lucky. My first G303 has an extremely faint rattle if I shake it very hard right next to my ear, but it does not have any effect on performance. I got it from best buy online during the black friday sale. I do think the tape over the sensor and shake probably works to see what is happening, but I really really doubt the reverse movement after a swipe is from sensor rattle and it is definitely pretty unscientific. Far too many people on these forums trust their movements far too much and think they are precise machines that can make perfectly reproducible movements. Also most of them look like they move way too far to be due to sensor rattle. I don't care how good your coordination is or your aim is you really can't say for certain exactly what is happening without measuring it. Also slamming the desk seems susceptible to all kinds of errors.


I don't mean to sound rude, but if the sensor is loosely mounted, then vibration of any sort will cause the sensor to shift and cause tracking errors. It might manifest differently from mouse to mouse depending on how well or not well the sensor is mounted, but I did pass high school science. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that vibration will cause something loose to rattle. And if it's a sensor and it's tracking a surface, guess what?

Maybe you don't agree, but I think my IQ level is high enough (I am a USCF chess master after all).

If 1) Tap G502 case and sensor remains firm and doesn't shift, 2) Tap G900 case and sensor remains firm and doesn't shift, 3) tap G300 case and sensor JUMPS all around the place even if PRESSING SUPER hard on the mouse to make SURE there is NO movement between the surface and sensor......I don't need forum people who disagree with me to come to my conclusion that in MY mouse, the G303 sensor shifts around with contact.

Your own mileage may vary. But I did my work and I don't need to prove my manlihood to randoms on a computer forum. My G303 is retired and I'm using my G900 and G502 that does NOT have a loose sensor. Sorry that you don't approve of my testing. I know how to test things.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Have to say, after giving it a decent chunk of time , I do believe some sort of engineering went into the shape. Can't believe a mouse can be so comfy. It was since day 1 ,but decided to give it a couple of weeks to see If I develop any hand pain. None yet and I believe it'll stay like that . I usually had some wrist pain using the EC2-A and all-around hand fatigue, hands are sensitive enough to induce pain immediately. Weirdly shaped, yet following my most natural grip.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't mean to sound rude, but if the sensor is loosely mounted, then vibration of any sort will cause the sensor to shift and cause tracking errors. It might manifest differently from mouse to mouse depending on how well or not well the sensor is mounted, but I did pass high school science. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that vibration will cause something loose to rattle. And if it's a sensor and it's tracking a surface, guess what?
> 
> Maybe you don't agree, but I think my IQ level is high enough (I am a USCF chess master after all).
> 
> If 1) Tap G502 case and sensor remains firm and doesn't shift, 2) Tap G900 case and sensor remains firm and doesn't shift, 3) tap G300 case and sensor JUMPS all around the place even if PRESSING SUPER hard on the mouse to make SURE there is NO movement between the surface and sensor......I don't need forum people who disagree with me to come to my conclusion that in MY mouse, the G303 sensor shifts around with contact.
> 
> Your own mileage may vary. But I did my work and I don't need to prove my manlihood to randoms on a computer forum. My G303 is retired and I'm using my G900 and G502 that does NOT have a loose sensor. Sorry that you don't approve of my testing. I know how to test things.


That just isn't a reliable test in any way shape or form because there are many ways to create an error in that test. I'm not even sure exactly what you are doing because the first post said hit the desk and this one says hit the case which I assume means the body of the mouse, but doing both I can get the cursor to move even though I am 100% certain that my sensor does not have any problems due to rattle. The way I tested my mouse specifically was to securely tape a small piece of mousepad which came with my mouse mat as a sample of the surface below the sensor and then shake it with mousemovementrecord open. Not a single count was registered no matter how hard I shook the mouse as long as the piece of mouse pad was secure. I did get a few counts at first, but I re-secured the piece of pad and no longer got any so that was almost certainly due to movement of the piece of pad. Tape should work fine if the mouse can track on the surface, but I didn't want to go searching for different tape and wasn't confident about tracking on scotch tape.

If we are talking about credentials I actually have a masters degree in physics, specifically I was working on experimental hadronic physics, but it doesn't take a scientist to realize there is a possibility of relative movement between the mouse and pad doing what you suggest. Science is about reliable reproducible tests and that doesn't seem like either to me.


----------



## Melan

1. Take a 0.5mm double side tape and put it around sensor hole. This should be about the same thickness as mouse feet.
2. Take piece of cloth pad and stick it on the tape.
3. Shake the mouse.

This should replicate, somewhat, the same behavior as you'll get on the pad. Since mouse feet are 0.5-0.6mm thick, you'll get the same distance between lens and piece of pad. Keep shaking, start from 400 CPI and go 800, 1600/1800, 3200 etc up to the point when cursor on the screen starts to move.

Now i'm not really sure if you can easily put the tape around standard G303 bottom shell, but for me it's easy since it's sanded down.


----------



## chr1spe

The piece of pad I had was large enough to go over the center feet so as long as you use a piece of pad ~2.5cm long it should be at the right height due to the feet around the sensor.


----------



## chr1spe

Also with that method if the tape or pad isn't 100% secure it is still definitely possible to get counts when the lens rattle isn't causing an issue, but I don't see any way to get no counts if the lens rattle is causing issues.


----------



## Melan

Here.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Red is patch with 0.5mm double sided tape and piece of clothpad. Size is roughly 2x2cm.
Sensor hole is 5mm wide and 8mm long.


----------



## duhizy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Have to say, after giving it a decent chunk of time , I do believe some sort of engineering went into the shape. Can't believe a mouse can be so comfy. It was since day 1 ,but decided to give it a couple of weeks to see If I develop any hand pain. None yet and I believe it'll stay like that . I usually had some wrist pain using the EC2-A and all-around hand fatigue, hands are sensitive enough to induce pain immediately. Weirdly shaped, yet following my most natural grip.


You mind taking pictures of how you hold it? I've had it for 6 months and I still haven't figured out how to hold it without causing pain in the right side of my right hand where the wrist join meets the forearm. I can't just keep shelling out 60-80 dollars for mice every few month on a students income, I kept it for the sensor in hopes of making it work.


----------



## James N

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I can't imagine how loose lens has to be for you to notice it on 400 CPI.


When i flick to someone's head in cs or try to flick on someone with a railgun in quake and stop on them, my crosshair moves enough after i stopped, so i will miss every now and then. At least for medium to long range shots (which is not tolerable for me). Sorta defeats the whole purpose of a gaming grade mouse, it is like having a car that pulls to the right randomly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Where are you buying the G303? If you have a Frys Electronics or Best Buy nearby, you ought to just go there, open up the box and check for yourself before you buy it. The problem with this mouse is that after months of playing with it, the sensor starts to get loose with time. I just think Logitech skimped out on putting decent effort when assembling this fine mouse.


I bought it on amazon, i will get the third replacement tomorrow. Unfortunately amazon is the only way of obtaining this mouse for now. Unless i want to drive 3 hours(which i am not willing to do). I don't get how fixing this issue is not a priority for a big company like Logitech. I mean having like 10% in a batch having that issue would be tolerable, but 90% and then the remaining 10% might develope the same issue over time, ***.

The bottom line seems to be, fix it yourself or get a refund (or pretend that it is not an issue and ignore it).


----------



## 44TZL

My sensor rattle 100% fix: Just put a bit of plastic from a glue gun at the bottom of the sensor so it doesn't interfere with the led and lens... rattle gone - no mess, never comes loose.

Personally can't wait until the 3366 sensor comes in an ergonomic but light, larger shape (= Final Mouse Scream 1 should be interesting)


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James N*
> 
> When i flick to someone's head in cs or try to flick on someone with a railgun in quake and stop on them, my crosshair moves enough after i stopped, so i will miss every now and then..


What mouse are you mainly using? I have this issue any time I use a mouse 10g or more lighter than the main one I'm using. Even after getting used to the g303 it happens very occasionally, but it is my hand not the mouse. I don't have a g303 with rattle to test, but I really doubt it could possibly cause what is shown in your mouse tester plot. That shows around almost a full centimeter of movement (~.75cm as far as I can tell) which would be a giant effect for lens rattle. Unless you are getting 50-100 counts on 400 CPI shaking the mouse with tape I would never be convinced that is anything but human error.


----------



## altf4

Is this normal behaviour? Shouldn't it be like 999-1000hz all the time?


----------



## ncck

Looks normal altf4, with a 3310 you'd be nowhere in that range









I also heard if you have sky lake CPU and above there is no longer a separate USB 2.0 controller.. Not sure how true that is but could make a minor difference


----------



## killuchen

What after market mousefeet do you guys recommend for the G303?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> You mind taking pictures of how you hold it? I've had it for 6 months and I still haven't figured out how to hold it without causing pain in the right side of my right hand where the wrist join meets the forearm. I can't just keep shelling out 60-80 dollars for mice every few month on a students income, I kept it for the sensor in hopes of making it work.





Spoiler: Pics


----------



## SmashTV

I really question how some people hold it. Even palming I don't get any issues.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I really question how some people hold it. Even palming I don't get any issues.


How big are your hands?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> How big are your hands?


18.5 cm.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> 18.5 cm.


Mine are 19 cm. I never had pain in my hand, just achy feeling in my wrist. Right side below my thumb.


----------



## Melan

I get that too sometimes but that's due to the pad.


----------



## b0z0

I just switches to a black GSR pad. I loved the g303 but didn't want to risk any issues of it was the mouse.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Here.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red is patch with 0.5mm double sided tape and piece of clothpad. Size is roughly 2x2cm.
> Sensor hole is 5mm wide and 8mm long.


Quick question, do you use a hole punch to get those mouse feet? That's what I do and after punching out 50+ feet, the punch is starting to wear and make the edges of the feet rough and they end up scratching the mouse pad. How do you make them?


----------



## Melan

I go to hyperglide.net and order them.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I go to hyperglide.net and order them.


Well then...

*runs away before getting laughed at*


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> hole punch


pretty cool! do you just smack right through .5mm (or 1mm) of teflon?
i go peasant-style and use scissors -> sandpaper -> sharpening steel (lol)
these mouse feet are 90+% (compared to hyperglides) and work great, but it's extremely time-consuming if you're doing "funny shapes".

hyperglides are still better, though - machines win.
they're just that little bit more smooth that your hands and tools will probably not accomplish. i certainly don't know how i would get it that perfect.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> pretty cool! do you just smack right through .5mm (or 1mm) of teflon?
> i go peasant-style and use scissors -> sandpaper -> sharpening steel (lol)
> these mouse feet are 90+% (compared to hyperglides) and work great, but it's extremely time-consuming if you're doing "funny shapes".
> 
> hyperglides are still better, though - machines win.
> they're just that little bit more smooth that your hands and tools will probably not accomplish. i certainly don't know how i would get it that perfect.


I stick some 3M double sided tape onto some .5mm teflon and punch it through the face where the tape is applied. If I punch it on the opposite face, it always ends up jaggy for some reason. Probably because I'm using a £2 hole punch


----------



## Melan

I would need a hole puncher when my hotline feet arrive. Gotta make holes for screws in feet if I decide to put old base on. Mouse is literally unusable on any CPI beyond 400 with sanded base and hyperglides due to insane amount of glide.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I really question how some people hold it. Even palming I don't get any issues.


I have a hybrid claw/fingertip grip. I've used a bunch of different mice (all shapes and sizes) and despite the nice performance I get using the G303, no matter how I adjust my grip, there's something about that shape that just starts making my hand really fatigued. Hell, I started resenting the thought of using it whenever I jumped into an online match and it made me lean more towards using my ZA13.


----------



## zantetheo

2 weeks now with G302.

I came to the conclusion that i will use 2 mice for my pc:

1) G502 for general use which is very comfortable and has the free scrolling wheel, a lock that can be disengaged to allow the wheel to spin freely with no resistance. It seems like a small thing, and almost detrimental due to the hypersensitivity. But when someone get used to it, the ability to blast through long text files at high speed with a flick and stop on a dime anywhere has really spoiled me. I catch myself doing the same 'flick' motion with G302 before realizing I'm not using a G502.



2) G302 for gaming which is better than G502. Its very light and perfect for gaming but when i use it for general purpose it hurts my hand.

So the solution is to use them both. Its better that way


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> 2 weeks now with G302.
> 
> I came to the conclusion that i will use 2 mice for my pc:
> 
> 1) G502 for general use which is very comfortable and has the free scrolling wheel, a lock that can be disengaged to allow the wheel to spin freely with no resistance. It seems like a small thing, and almost detrimental due to the hypersensitivity. But when someone get used to it, the ability to blast through long text files at high speed with a flick and stop on a dime anywhere has really spoiled me. I catch myself doing the same 'flick' motion with G302 before realizing I'm not using a G502.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) G302 for gaming which is better than G502. Its very light and perfect for gaming but when i use it for general purpose it hurts my hand.
> 
> So the solution is to use them both. Its better that way


You've got over $100+ on just mice alone on your desk! Then again, you can't go wrong with either of these (the G502 is a bit too heavy for me to use in fast paced FPS games).


----------



## hotwheels1997

Okay, what causes results like this?


----------



## ejohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> 2 weeks now with G302.
> 
> I came to the conclusion that i will use 2 mice for my pc:
> 
> 1) G502 for general use which is very comfortable and has the free scrolling wheel, a lock that can be disengaged to allow the wheel to spin freely with no resistance. It seems like a small thing, and almost detrimental due to the hypersensitivity. But when someone get used to it, the ability to blast through long text files at high speed with a flick and stop on a dime anywhere has really spoiled me. I catch myself doing the same 'flick' motion with G302 before realizing I'm not using a G502.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) G302 for gaming which is better than G502. Its very light and perfect for gaming but when i use it for general purpose it hurts my hand.
> 
> So the solution is to use them both. Its better that way


I do the same thing, but I am using the 502 for gaming and the 303 for general use. I like the dpi switch and the grip of the 502 better than the 303, but the 303 is less fatiguing for general use


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay, what causes results like this?


Doesn't beat my 800m/s result









Edit: Page 597, for anyone interested


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay, what causes results like this?


Delayed reports most likely due to some type of stutter from a running process. If you save the log you will see you get no reports for an few ms, then you get exactly the number of reports you missed all less than 0.1ms apart. Basically the it is just catching up on the delayed reports, but since the time between the reports is very small it says really high velocity. If you look at the number of counts it should not spike.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Major thanks to user @2shellbonus , managed to *fix my sensor rattle without opening the mouse* ,thanks to his explanation:
Quote:


> Take a piece of paper (a4 paper, cut a piece approx 3 mm wide and around 5 mm long. Wedge the piece of paper between the lens and body in the sensor hole on the back. Use either an automatic pencil to do this or some other small tool. Make sure the edge of the paper is behind the prism of the lens ( that the paper will not interfere with tracking).
> 
> Done. No more rattle


Pics of mine:

I've circled the jammed paper . It's easily reversible ,it can be pulled out rather easily with a pen . I used a 0.5mm pen to jam it. It feels good to not rattle, even though my rattle wasn't affecting tracking, the sound was annoying and increasing with time. Did some 5m/s flicks and paper is still in place and rattle nowhere to be found. Thank you , @2shellbonus , again.


----------



## VESPA5

It's gotta be something to do with whatever Logitech uses to secure the sensor onto the body. I'm already on my 2nd one. It's only been 3 months and the rattle is getting louder and louder. It's my favorite mouse and it pains me to know that I might be exchanging this for my 3rd one! And I'm not even shaking the crap out of it to hear the rattle.

It concerns me because I've done the "tape paper to the bottom" test and the slight rattle results in the cursor moving when swiping left or right and suddenly stopping. That might not be enough to bug other people but it bugs me. If you're a flick/quick swipe type player, you might have to readjust your aim ever so slightly (and that might result in you losing in quick draw encounters)


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> It's gotta be something to do with whatever Logitech uses to secure the sensor onto the body. I'm already on my 2nd one. It's only been 3 months and the rattle is getting louder and louder. It's my favorite mouse and it pains me to know that I might be exchanging this for my 3rd one! And I'm not even shaking the crap out of it to hear the rattle.
> 
> It concerns me because I've done the "tape paper to the bottom" test and the slight rattle results in the cursor moving when swiping left or right and suddenly stopping. That might not be enough to bug other people but it bugs me. If you're a flick/quick swipe type player, you might have to readjust your aim ever so slightly (and that might result in you losing in quick draw encounters)


As said in previous post, fix is as easy as it gets. Absolutely no rattle during even the fierest of flicks.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> As said in previous post, fix is as easy as it gets. Absolutely no rattle during even the fierest of flicks.


I tried your method. I must have unskillful hands with a tweezer and small wad of paper, but I think I did more harm than good because now the sensor doesn't track at all. I may just take it apart while keeping the mouse feet intact as much as possible, and do it the tedious way (there's a video that was contributed on this thread that shows how to do it). That and now I gotta figure out how to dislodge that piece of paper I jammed in there that is actually messing up the tracking. What a pain. I might just end up going back to Best Buy to get yet another G303.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I tried your method. I must have unskillful hands with a tweezer and small wad of paper, but I think I did more harm than good because now the sensor doesn't track at all. I may just take it apart while keeping the mouse feet intact as much as possible, and do it the tedious way (there's a video that was contributed on this thread that shows how to do it). That and now I gotta figure out how to dislodge that piece of paper I jammed in there that is actually messing up the tracking. What a pain. I might just end up going back to Best Buy to get yet another G303.


Did you place the paper on top of the sensor? I jammed it behind the bridge, where is has no tracking effect. A tweezer sounds too big to do it successfully with. I used a 0.5mm ball pen, which is as thin as a needle, which can also work . It's extremely easy to get it out through the sensor hole, why not do it that way?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Did you place the paper on top of the sensor? I jammed it behind the bridge, where is has no tracking effect. A tweezer sounds too big to do it successfully with. I used a 0.5mm ball pen, which is as thin as a needle, which can also work . It's extremely easy to get it out through the sensor hole, why not do it that way?


Nope, I placed it behind the bridge like you. I think the piece of paper I used was not the right size and actually moved the sensor's aim. I'll figure it out. It's not the first time I've taken a mouse apart to perform amateur surgery on


----------



## Falkentyne

Can't you guys understand that something that SEEMS brainless for YOU might be extremely difficult or impossible for some other people to do?
Not everyone has the same mechanical competence or dexterity when working with small objects.
I saw an immediate red flag when you said "as easy as it gets." Clearly it's NOT as easy as it gets if it didn't work for the poster above me.

I see the same stuff with people talking about soldering, when some people could burn their hands off by trying to solder. Not everything is as easy as putting mouse feet on a mouse (and even THAT has gone wrong for me before).


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Nope, I placed it behind the bridge like you. I think the piece of paper I used was not the right size and actually moved the sensor's aim. I'll figure it out. It's not the first time I've taken a mouse apart to perform amateur surgery on


I used a 5mm x 3mm paper. When jamming it, I made it flex in half length, so it's in a "c" shape , having the sensor on top and the shell on the bottom. To reassure myself, before finally inserting it, I had a string go through the paper so I can pull it out if something harmful did happen. Anyways, good luck with the disassembly .


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Here.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red is patch with 0.5mm double sided tape and piece of clothpad. Size is roughly 2x2cm.
> Sensor hole is 5mm wide and 8mm long.


What grit did you use to sand it down?


----------



## Melan

Started with dremel to remove excess plastic. Then 320 > 600 > 1200 sandpaper.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Cool thanks. Going to try it out on my g100s. Dont have a dremel though


----------



## Melan

Dremel isn't necessary. Just use 100 grit paper instead.


----------



## popups

Sandpaper works well. A dremel can create excess heat, which can melt the plastic. Maybe wet sand it?

http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2015/06/g100s.html


----------



## Bucake

that sanded bottom looks so clean, i'd almost do it just because of that


----------



## Takonic

just jumped the gun on this. I'll be damned, couldnt demo the unit but as soon as I cracked it open..it's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used that doesnt look ergo. How hard am I supposed to shake it to notice a sensor rattle that everyone talks about? and how long does the "steps" in the scroll wheel last (I seem to destroy these steps on all my previous mice)?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Takonic*
> 
> just jumped the gun on this. I'll be damned, couldnt demo the unit but as soon as I cracked it open..it's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used that doesnt look ergo. How hard am I supposed to shake it to notice a sensor rattle that everyone talks about? and how long does the "steps" in the scroll wheel last (I seem to destroy these steps on all my previous mice)?


As someone who does scrolling to do everything and middle click to close tabs, my G303 lasted for the several months that I used it, in fact, the wheel didn't even become "lighter" or "less tactile" as for the sensor rattle, the way I found out about it was I flicked the mouse around on my mousepad, probably at about... 2.5m/s and felt a slight weight shift and heard a slight rattle, however when I lifted it in the air and moved it back and forth, didn't even have to be that fast, I could hear it. Best of luck.


----------



## Takonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> As someone who does scrolling to do everything and middle click to close tabs, my G303 lasted for the several months that I used it, in fact, the wheel didn't even become "lighter" or "less tactile" as for the sensor rattle, the way I found out about it was I flicked the mouse around on my mousepad, probably at about... 2.5m/s and felt a slight weight shift and heard a slight rattle, however when I lifted it in the air and moved it back and forth, didn't even have to be that fast, I could hear it. Best of luck.


thanks! im litterally shaking the thing like a shake weight, doesnt seem to be a rattle..and thanks! hopefully this lasts forever..specially since theres no rubber/soft-touch coating to worry about


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Takonic*
> 
> thanks! im litterally shaking the thing like a shake weight, doesnt seem to be a rattle..and thanks! hopefully this lasts forever..specially since theres no rubber/soft-touch coating to worry about


Don't hold your breath and cross your fingers







Over time (in my case, 3 months), whatever Logitech used to place the sensor eventually starts to loosen up. You can't hear it unless your ear is really close. But then, you start seeing your cursor/aim over shooting the mark each time you swipe left or right in-game. It gets worse with time but you would think a gaming mouse would last you longer than 6 months. I think Logitech is doing so well that they don't mind the exchange/return ratio on this otherwise fantastic mouse (in my opinion).


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Takonic*
> 
> thanks! im litterally shaking the thing like a shake weight, doesnt seem to be a rattle..and thanks! hopefully this lasts forever..specially since theres no rubber/soft-touch coating to worry about


Sounds like you got one of the newer batches then, since that should definitely make it rattle if you're shaking it left and right. Lucky you. Did you get it from a local place or online?


----------



## Takonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Sounds like you got one of the newer batches then, since that should definitely make it rattle if you're shaking it left and right. Lucky you. Did you get it from a local place or online?


local best buy, last on the shelf too. serial number starts with 1543 if that matters or not


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Takonic*
> 
> local best buy, last on the shelf too. serial number starts with 1543 if that matters or not


Darn, shame I sold my G303 away (and threw the box away) and my significant other doesn't have his box anymore, otherwise I'd tell you the first 4 digits for mine. I think that if it's local, you probably did get a new batch since big retailers like Amazon usually get tons of those mice after they're released and sell them for forever before needing a new batch.


----------



## killuchen

Here's my 2 week old g303. It doesn't really rattle unless I hardcore shake it. On normal use I don't hear a rattle at all when I flick swipe or do any fast movements. I love this mouse to death and I'm praying it won't loosens over time


----------



## VESPA5

I thought mine was 'flawless' for the first 2 months. Thought I got one of the ones from the "good batch". And then......................................... the sensor started to slightly rattle. You start noticing it when you can sorta feel something moving inside the mouse. If that doesn't make you flinch, the way the cursor moves after flicks starts to get noticeable too. Before you know it, it's rattling







I don't bang or rage to the point where my mouse gets tossed around. I generally take good care of my gaming mice. But with the G303, gosh, I think it's just poor design or a half-assed assembly effort from Logitech.


----------



## Melan

QC only checks if the lens is attached, not if it's wobbling.


----------



## ncck

From what you guys are saying I should probably throw my g303 on e-bay soon since I don't have this crazy rattle you all speak of.







I have seen it in a youtube video though so I'm guessing you guys keep getting old stock of it?


----------



## chr1spe

Not all of them get worse. I've had mine for about 5 months now and still doesn't really rattle. There is some very slight noise if I really violently shake it in the air, but that has always been there.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> From what you guys are saying I should probably throw my g303 on e-bay soon since I don't have this crazy rattle you all speak of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen it in a youtube video though so I'm guessing you guys keep getting old stock of it?


As crazy as this sounds, the only gaming mouse I've owned that lasted over a year and keeps on ticking is my DeathAdder Chroma. As much crap as that manufacturer gets, that mouse actually took a beating and kept on ticking. One of the only times I've raged during a game of BF4 and threw my mouse was with the DA:C.............. and it still works perfectly! When I switched to a smaller and lighter mouse, it was like my skills were enhanced (found out late that the DeathAdder was too bulky for my small/medium hands which led to so so gaming on my part). I never understood this "million clicks rating" since previous mice I've owned had the switches die out or have double click issues after only 4 months (cough cough, CORSAIR, cough)









I'm on my 2nd G303. My only assumption is that the 'rattle' that results in returns/exchanges is minuscule in comparison to the overall sales. The 'rattle' occurs without me having to shake the crap out of it. It seriously happens (and you can feel it) when you swipe from left to right. First world problems, I know...........


----------



## Melan

I've played on my MX500 today. Still going strong. Overclocked A2020 is great.


----------



## zaQon

Stop shacking your mouse mid air, tape smth on sensor and watch cursor you will see if it rattles or not.


----------



## duhizy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pics


Yup, your hands are big enough where there is no forced grip to one side. My 17 cm hands are forced into the position shown in the image to achieve any sort of comfort. Notice the angle my hand is at, swiping when your hand is at this angle puts all the force on the circled right side of my wrist joint and it has been causing pain. Not sure
whether I should be lowering/raising my sensitivity to make this better or just waiting until someone makes a 3366 ergo mouse with low weight so I can sell this thing.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> Yup, your hands are big enough where there is no forced grip to one side. My 17 cm hands are forced into the position shown in the image to achieve any sort of comfort. Notice the angle my hand is at, swiping when your hand is at this angle puts all the force on the circled right side of my wrist joint and it has been causing pain. Not sure
> whether I should be lowering/raising my sensitivity to make this better or just waiting until someone makes a 3366 ergo mouse with low weight so I can sell this thing.


I had exactly the same problem.. even after 6 month of testing the area of the red circle startet to hurt after 1-2h of playing. Overall my performence with this mouse was awesome.

My Hands are 17,5 x 8 cm.


----------



## duhizy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> I had exactly the same problem.. even after 6 month of testing the area of the red circle startet to hurt after 1-2h of playing. Overall my performence with this mouse was awesome.
> 
> My Hands are 17,5 x 8 cm.


Even then, I don't think this mouse shape lets me perform to my max, I only kept it because i gave away my FK1 when a friend couldn't afford a new mouse (huanos ended up being a problem when I switched to MOBA games), been trying to find a light deathadder like shape with a good sensor but apparently that isn't possible :/


----------



## CorruptBE

Zowie EC series?

Still Huano's but they feel better on the EC series vs the FK's, probably because of the shell stiffness.


----------



## k4rstar

Is it possible to mod the cable on this mouse to safely remove the braiding?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *k4rstar*
> 
> Is it possible to mod the cable on this mouse to safely remove the braiding?


----------



## Derp

It's refreshing to see a youtuber use his brain. Reading the comment section of that video brings us back to the reality of why braided cables exist though.... stupid people will buy into anything if they're told it's a premium feature.

Braided cables on mice need to go away.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> Yup, your hands are big enough where there is no forced grip to one side. My 17 cm hands are forced into the position shown in the image to achieve any sort of comfort. Notice the angle my hand is at, swiping when your hand is at this angle puts all the force on the circled right side of my wrist joint and it has been causing pain. Not sure
> whether I should be lowering/raising my sensitivity to make this better or just waiting until someone makes a 3366 ergo mouse with low weight so I can sell this thing.


Wait so you consider it normal for your hand to be entirely flat? I don't consider that normal at all and have never gripped a mouse that way. From an ergonomics standpoint your hand shouldn't be flat as it isn't really a very natural hand position. Hell even my keyboard hand is at an angle. Supposedly vertical mice are the best to prevent wrist problems, but obviously they aren't meant for gaming. Your hand being at an angle is fairly natural though and the flat it is the more wrist problems I would expect.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Wait so you consider it normal for your hand to be entirely flat? I don't consider that normal at all and have never gripped a mouse that way. From an ergonomics standpoint your hand shouldn't be flat as it isn't really a very natural hand position. Hell even my keyboard hand is at an angle. Supposedly vertical mice are the best to prevent wrist problems, but obviously they aren't meant for gaming. Your hand being at an angle is fairly natural though and the flat it is the more wrist problems I would expect.


Depends on what angle you have your elbow.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> Yup, your hands are big enough where there is no forced grip to one side. My 17 cm hands are forced into the position shown in the image to achieve any sort of comfort. Notice the angle my hand is at, swiping when your hand is at this angle puts all the force on the circled right side of my wrist joint and it has been causing pain. Not sure
> whether I should be lowering/raising my sensitivity to make this better or just waiting until someone makes a 3366 ergo mouse with low weight so I can sell this thing.


Have you tried tilting the mouse slightly so your hand goes over it from the bottom left towards the top right?!
because it looks like you try to grip it as straight as it goes into your hand.
doing that would def. give you a little more support in the area below your pinky which also might remove the pain.

sth. like this


http://imgur.com/CBHeD

warning awful images its late and dark in here


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Depends on what angle you have your elbow.


Yeah I guess. I can't find a position for my elbow that isn't extremely awkward while having my wrist in a neutral position and my hand flat though. I guess everyone is a bit different though.


----------



## duhizy

I figured it out. The issue is caused by the fact that it essentially sways when i flick, the momentum makes my wrist essentially wiggle in that direction and it eventually causes pain because I have to swipe and I use a relaxed grip, it is fixed by essentially squeezing the base with my palm so that my wrist never moves. It's uncomfortable but it stops the pain. I feel like it's one of those things that will become comfortable when I condition my hand to be used to the extra pressure i need to put on the mouse.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It's refreshing to see a youtuber use his brain. Reading the comment section of that video brings us back to the reality of why braided cables exist though.... stupid people will buy into anything if they're told it's a premium feature.
> 
> Braided cables on mice need to go away.


yeah, hateful :-(

i've de-braided my first cable the other day, and it was way easier than the interwebs made me think. (though maybe some are easier than others.)
the only stupid thing i did was trying to make a start by using a razor blade, of course it went through the rubber like butter. luckily for me it was at the end of the cable and it'll probably never be an issue.
i still haven't seen a better cable than the non-braided DA 3g one, i wish i could buy that cable for every mouse. the flex is just sexy


----------



## VESPA5

Now if there was only some way to get Logitech to do a better job with quality control and the sensor rattle issue. I don't think it's gotten any better. Only 3 months in on my 2nd one (which initially had zero rattle or jitter even with the "taping paper of the sensor test") - and now, my aim is off each time I flick to the left and right. Back to the Castor I go


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Now if there was only some way to get Logitech to do a better job with quality control and the sensor rattle issue. I don't think it's gotten any better. Only 3 months in on my 2nd one (which initially had zero rattle or jitter even with the "taping paper of the sensor test") - and now, my aim is off each time I flick to the left and right. Back to the Castor I go


RMA it with logitech they will replace it for u


----------



## ncck

My hand is sideways when I claw, also my keyboard is slanted to. But keyboard I can have straight without any issues

Keeping it flat feels awful for me but I feel bad for any of you experiencing pain. Haven't had gaming pain since when I used a death adder in like 2011. I can play for 10 hours straight with claw grip and feel nothing. But back pain is a different story heh


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> RMA it with logitech they will replace it for u


Due to past experiences with Logitech's customer service, I can either a) RMA it and wait for 2-3 weeks or b) Go back to Best Buy, exchange it for a brand new one in less than 20-30 minutes









Logitech's CS department isn't exactly, how shall I say this, 'quick'.


----------



## D4free

Hi y'all, i had question.
I also had the mouse rattle issues, did the "tape test" and indeed it was moving around. I have send my mouse back and the shop send me new one with the same batch but different S/N.
This one does not shake ( at least, u barely hear it, and for now, it does not look to move at the "tape test", however what i wonder is, why this time it did not ask me for a firmware update?
Which version is currently the latest? Looks like i have firwmare version 95.2.26 on it.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D4free*
> 
> Hi y'all, i had question.
> I also had the mouse rattle issues, did the "tape test" and indeed it was moving around. I have send my mouse back and the shop send me new one with the same batch but different S/N.
> This one does not shake ( at least, u barely hear it, and for now, it does not look to move at the "tape test", however what i wonder is, why this time it did not ask me for a firmware update?
> Which version is currently the latest? Looks like i have firwmare version 95.2.26 on it.


I think that is the most recent version. At least that is what mine has at it claims to be up to date.


----------



## killuchen

does the g303 have mouse accel??


----------



## Buckmoney

Got my G303 from best buy and my S/N at the bottom started with 1542LZ. No rattle and I love it!


----------



## cainy1991

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Due to past experiences with Logitech's customer service, I can either a) RMA it and wait for 2-3 weeks or b) Go back to Best Buy, exchange it for a brand new one in less than 20-30 minutes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Logitech's CS department isn't exactly, how shall I say this, 'quick'.


My experience is rather counter to that, Logi have some of the fastest RMA service I have dealt with(different country though) I just wish the products would stop dying so much, so I didn't need to use it so often lol.

The 303 is going strong still, lets hope it stays that way


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> does the g303 have mouse accel??


Just a very tiny tiny bit.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cainy1991*
> 
> My experience is rather counter to that, Logi have some of the fastest RMA service I have dealt with(different country though) I just wish the products would stop dying so much, so I didn't need to use it so often lol.
> 
> The 303 is going strong still, lets hope it stays that way


I've RMA's an old M305 and it literally took 2 months. I guess they're getting better because I recently returned the G900 and I should be seeing money back in my account sometime in May









This is the email I got for returning the G900. Great mouse, it's just too bulky/large for my hands.


----------



## duhizy

Never mind, pain came back. Just gunna sit here until scream one reviews come out


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> Never mind, pain came back. Just gunna sit here until scream one reviews come out


I'd be careful with FinalMouse products. You can usually tell what kind of quality control a mouse has when vendors start pulling them off their shelves within months of release (like Amazon).


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> Never mind, pain came back. Just gunna sit here until scream one reviews come out


I've been doing that since January, stopped waiting when they confirmed its goign to release late May.

I hope to God that I like the G900.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> I've been doing that since January, stopped waiting when they confirmed its goign to release late May.
> 
> I hope to God that I like the G900.


I went through the same scenario as you did. If you've been gaming on medium to small mouse for a while such as the G303, going to the G900 might take a little getting used to. It's a tad on the bulky side of a mouse and is almost 20 grams heavier than the G303. So, there might be a learning curve. Other than that (despite the price point), it's quite a nice mouse (G900). I returned mine mainly because it was a tad too large for my play style. Who knows. You might actually like it! I haven't heard or read of any sensor rattle issues on that mouse yet. I do get really skeptical about a mouse that gets way too many positive reviews (cough cough, Castor, cough). Eventually, down to earth realistic and fair reviews come out of the woodwork. So far, the G900 seems to live to the hype.


----------



## Bumbsan

I can get this mouse through amazon for ~30€ used I know that that the sensor rattle is probably gonna be a problem, but with the "paper fix" already known in this thread, is it worth it? Atm I got a Zowie AM which scroll is clicking for itself, very hard to ignore when I'm usually using the scroll to jump in games.


----------



## Poopsticker

If you think you can get used to the shape, it is definitely worth it. If you're lucky you might get one with less rattle or none at all.


----------



## MonarchX

I doubt its barely any better than my Hyperion Fury...


----------



## Bumbsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> If you think you can get used to the shape, it is definitely worth it. If you're lucky you might get one with less rattle or none at all.


I don't think the shape is gonna be a problem, got small hands and fingertip grip so it "SHOULD" (always a little gamble) be a good match. The sensor just sounds sooooooo good. Probably gonna order one, because for under 30€, used, it's a real snatch if it works out my way.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bumbsan*
> 
> I don't think the shape is gonna be a problem, got small hands and fingertip grip so it "SHOULD" (always a little gamble) be a good match. The sensor just sounds sooooooo good. Probably gonna order one, because for under 30€, used, it's a real snatch if it works out my way.


30€ is definitely a steal for the G303. I'm actually using the G303 right now that I purchased for $15 from Best Buy (used a $15 gift card). For me, I tend to hybrid palm/claw the mouse. I'll admit the shape may be awkward at first, but I was able to become accustomed to it. Personally, i've never had issues with using the mouse over longer periods of time.

EDIT: My hands are about 17-18 cm


----------



## VESPA5

I want to love this mouse. I've started the tedious process of taking it apart to fix the sensor rattle and noticed how poorly the sensor was attached to the shell. It's literally wobbling. Even if I end up finishing the securing process of the sensor of my G303, my medium/small hands w/hybrid claw/fingertip grip still finds this mouse rather painful to use after only an hour of usage. Yoda bless you if the unique size has no physical effects on your wrist.


----------



## qsxcv

gotta melt that lens with the sensor to fix the rattle





























http://www.overclock.net/t/1595799/corsair-m65-pro-rgb-heard-of-it/100_100#post_25085093


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bumbsan*
> 
> I can get this mouse through amazon for ~30€ used I know that that the sensor rattle is probably gonna be a problem, but with the "paper fix" already known in this thread, is it worth it? Atm I got a Zowie AM which scroll is clicking for itself, very hard to ignore when I'm usually using the scroll to jump in games.


Got mine from there, totally worth it. It was basically new. Sensor rattle fixed with paper.


----------



## Bucake

what brand/source for mouse feet do you guys recommend?

also lol, unusable because of the loose lens. if i do a flick, my cursor keeps vibrating.. ;D didn't realize it was this bad


----------



## Falkentyne

Yes its bad and the sensor can move even if there is no rattle. I tested it. These toxic people on this forum don't know that I've tested hardware for various companies and I know how to test things other people do NOT. If they want to insult someone who knows what they're doing, their loss. I had to put so many people in this thread on permanent ignore because they don't know the things I know--many of which are COMMON SENSE. Works for me though. Someone insults me for knowing how to test if a sensor is not stable, I ignore them. period.

So let me make this clear for you rude teenagers and arrogant college kids.
You insult MY hard work and MY findings--I put you on my permanent block list. Is that clear? I don't have time for creeps on the internet.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I'm just glad this mouse isn't as intricate as the EVGA X10. I still have not fully put that thing back together. G303 is a cakewalk.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> what brand/source for mouse feet do you guys recommend?
> 
> also lol, unusable because of the loose lens. if i do a flick, my cursor keeps vibrating.. ;D didn't realize it was this bad


Im curious on the aftermarket mousefeet as well


----------



## Melan

Hotline for G303 or Hyperglide MX-1.


----------



## LLabwons

Given how notorious the sensor rattle issue is with G303, I was curious if anyone knew whether the line test I did in paint here (fast flicks to either side) would be a consequence of the sensor rattling back as I stop the mouse or my arm making these imperceptive movements.

When I flicked left to right, the downward curl is pronounced and I took great exception to ensure my arm was not making this movement, however I could be mistaken still - of course.

When I flicked right to left, I didn't seem to get the same results, however the sensor does seem to rebound appreciably (assuming it's not my arm). If I had other mice to test this out with, I would but I currently have only this g303, my brother's g303 and my friend's g303. All exhibit the same behavior when performed by each of us.

Edit: Forgot to mention, 400 DPI.


----------



## Bucake

could be. but it's normal to physically "jitter" a bit at the end of a swipe. try to clamp your mouse tightly and focus on coming to a full stop.

here's is what fat sensor jiggle looks like on 3600cpi:
http://i.imgur.com/yzX81tg.png?1


the sensor jiggle is very apparent with my G303 even at lower steps like 800 and 400.
but it's easier to make sure (in paint) by increasing the cpi a bit.


----------



## Melan

I get the same with MX500, FK, even my crappy 90 cent chinese mouse. It's not the lens rattle, it's a human error.


----------



## SnowShovel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LLabwons*
> 
> Given how notorious the sensor rattle issue is with G303, I was curious if anyone knew whether the line test I did in paint here (fast flicks to either side) would be a consequence of the sensor rattling back as I stop the mouse or my arm making these imperceptive movements.
> 
> When I flicked left to right, the downward curl is pronounced and I took great exception to ensure my arm was not making this movement, however I could be mistaken still - of course.
> 
> When I flicked right to left, I didn't seem to get the same results, however the sensor does seem to rebound appreciably (assuming it's not my arm). If I had other mice to test this out with, I would but I currently have only this g303, my brother's g303 and my friend's g303. All exhibit the same behavior when performed by each of us.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to mention, 400 DPI.


I guarantee that's human error


----------



## qsxcv

bucake's drawing does not look like human error.....

drawing lines in paint usually is mostly human error though


----------



## Melan

I've meant the lines. Should've quoted the post.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> could be. but it's normal to physically "jitter" a bit at the end of a swipe. try to clamp your mouse tightly and focus on coming to a full stop.
> 
> here's is what fat sensor jiggle looks like on 3600cpi:
> http://i.imgur.com/yzX81tg.png?1
> 
> 
> the sensor jiggle is very apparent with my G303 even at lower steps like 800 and 400.
> but it's easier to make sure (in paint) by increasing the cpi a bit.


Wow. That's really bad. I've never had sensor jitter this bad with this mouse. It's always been the rattle that's the culprit. Dare I say it's one of the most accurate and precise sensors I've ever used. Plus the games I play have me always on sweet 800dpi. The only reason I was able to tell that the performance was affecting my game play was the obvious rattle (when it was non-existent when I bought it 3 months ago) and how my aim would frequently overshoot the mark whenever I flicked to the left/right to aim and had to compensate for the sensor's overshoot. This mouse was once sold around $69.99 everywhere. But it feels like a $29.99 mouse (lol)


----------



## qsxcv

PSA:
g303 is ~8ms slower than mlt04, when both are at 125hz (set in LGS):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








g303 is ~4ms slower than mlt04, when both are at 250hz (set in LGS):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








for 500/1000hz it's hard to say since this method is only accurate to ~1ms. but i'm fairly sure the pattern continues.
3 plots for 500hz:


http://imgur.com/3IoH9

3 plots for 1000hz:


http://imgur.com/clgiG


other newer logitech mice are like the same. i'm too lazy to test
i'll explain all this is a long post sometime in the near future


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> PSA:
> g303 is ~8ms slower than mlt04, when both are at 125hz (set in LGS):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g303 is ~4ms slower than mlt04, when both are at 250hz (set in LGS):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for 500/1000hz it's hard to say since this method is only accurate to ~1ms. but i'm fairly sure the pattern continues.
> 3 plots for 500hz:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/3IoH9
> 
> 3 plots for 1000hz:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/clgiG
> 
> 
> other newer logitech mice are like the same. i'm too lazy to test
> i'll explain all this is a long post sometime in the near future


Thank you! I'm hoping that the 1,000Hz setting has negligible delay or that it is the margin of error.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> PSA:
> g303 is ~8ms slower than mlt04, when both are at 125hz (set in LGS):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g303 is ~4ms slower than mlt04, when both are at 250hz (set in LGS):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for 500/1000hz it's hard to say since this method is only accurate to ~1ms. but i'm fairly sure the pattern continues.
> 3 plots for 500hz:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/3IoH9
> 
> 3 plots for 1000hz:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/clgiG
> 
> 
> other newer logitech mice are like the same. i'm too lazy to test
> i'll explain all this is a long post sometime in the near future


Is that the newest version of mousetester? Because in that one you can change the "lag" of the second device in steps of 1ms, so you can visually overlap them by increasing/decreasing lag and check the value when they match.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Wow. That's really bad. I've never had sensor jitter this bad with this mouse. It's always been the rattle that's the culprit. Dare I say it's one of the most accurate and precise sensors I've ever used. Plus the games I play have me always on sweet 800dpi. The only reason I was able to tell that the performance was affecting my game play was the obvious rattle (when it was non-existent when I bought it 3 months ago) and how my aim would frequently overshoot the mark whenever I flicked to the left/right to aim and had to compensate for the sensor's overshoot. This mouse was once sold around $69.99 everywhere. But it feels like a $29.99 mouse (lol)


Meanwhile I'm sitting here with my 25$ g303 that has no problems what so ever and it feels better than any other mouse I have used. If I had the choice of mine or pretty much any other 70$ mouse I would pick mine in a heart beat. Much nicer than other 60-70$ mice I've tried.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Meanwhile I'm sitting here with my 25$ g303 that has no problems what so ever and it feels better than any other mouse I have used. If I had the choice of mine or pretty much any other 70$ mouse I would pick mine in a heart beat. Much nicer than other 60-70$ mice I've tried.


Good for you. Then you're one of the lucky ones!










I paid $46 for my G303 and I'm on my third one. Now if I was the only one who had sensor rattle issues, I'd be the only human being on this planet chiming in on this issue on forums and with Logitech's customer service. But that's not the case. I'd pay $25 in a heartbeat for a used G303 that had zero issues. Who knows what the previous owner did with his right hand while handling that mouse before selling it to whomever used for $25







Buying a used mouse to me is like buying used underwear. I'm a clean freak.

I'd pick a $60-$70 fantabulous meal with a steak over a $25 mouse any day


----------



## chr1spe

I got it new for 25$ on sale


----------



## kevinzone

whats the click latency like for the g303?


----------



## Melan

Very low.


----------



## qsxcv

imo i wouldn't say "very"
http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_100#post_24250938
http://www.overclock.net/t/1572872/firmware-added-button-delay-testing-attempts-tapping-mouse-buttons-lightly/100_100#post_24779930


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> imo i wouldn't say "very"
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1411332/mouse-button-lag-comparison/400_100#post_24250938
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1572872/firmware-added-button-delay-testing-attempts-tapping-mouse-buttons-lightly/100_100#post_24779930


Do you know which firmware has the lowest click delay? I updated my G303 a while back, so it might have the older firmware, if I interpreted the links right, and not the added delay from newer firmware.


----------



## qsxcv

idk i suspect it hasn't changed since release


----------



## ncck

Good news g303 users. The g303 is going to get hyper glide mouse feet in the future. No release date yet. Make sure to show your support! If it does well maybe we can get g900 feet!


----------



## Melan

That's what they said a year ago. Still no feet.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> That's what they said a year ago. Still no feet.


Right there's no release date. Was just confirming that they are being made which is nice


----------



## Gauanqh6764

..


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nobelharvards*
> 
> Is this a good deal?
> 
> http://www.dicksmith.com.au/pc-peripherals/logitech-para-copy-g303-daedalus-apex-fnof-iquest-frac12-performance-edition-gaming-mouse-dsau-yg10807
> 
> $25 AUD, can pick it up in a store < 3km away from my residence.


If you can live with the diamond shape this mouse is a steal for 25 AUD. Just keep your fingers crossed that you get a unit without sensor rattle!


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk




----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*


Oh god, we've entered the realm of classic bike parts.



Everyone run


----------



## sjukungen

So I bought one of these and started off getting a defect product with lens rattle. I exchanged it, opened the box and shook it, no rattle and I was overly joyed. However my right button is heavily tactile with almost the feeling of a huano switch which is really weird.

My first G303 didn't have this heavy tactile feeling on any of the buttons. Are they supposed to be heavily tactile or super light and responsive? I'm thinking of buying another one and see if I get a rattleless with proper clicks and send back the least defective one..

Why can't they put their resources into developing proper mechanics instead of useless RGB lighting....


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sjukungen*
> 
> So I bought one of these and started off getting a defect product with lens rattle. I exchanged it, opened the box and shook it, no rattle and I was overly joyed. However my right button is heavily tactile with almost the feeling of a huano switch which is really weird.
> 
> My first G303 didn't have this heavy tactile feeling on any of the buttons. Are they supposed to be heavily tactile or super light and responsive? I'm thinking of buying another one and see if i get and get a rattleless with proper clicks and send back the least defective one..


They're supposed to be very light, like...light to the point where my "heavy finger" syndrome, would have me misclick my G303 when watching angles pretty often.


----------



## SmashTV

Dunno if its something with the shape and the grip points but I'm having an infinitely better time tracking targets with the mouse in all my shooters since I cycled back to this mouse for a week.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> They're supposed to be very light, like...light to the point where my "heavy finger" syndrome, would have me misclick my G303 when watching angles pretty often.


In my experience, the G303's buttons are pretty top notch. They are light, but I'd say they're not as hair-trigger-like as my DA:Chroma or Castor. If the perception of the G303's buttons are light, try some of Mionix's mice. So light and great for spamming but horrible if you like to flick your wrist and your fingers are resting on the buttons (resulting in misfires)


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> In my experience, the G303's buttons are pretty top notch. They are light, but I'd say they're not as hair-trigger-like as my DA:Chroma or Castor. If the perception of the G303's buttons are light, try some of Mionix's mice. So light and great for spamming but horrible if you like to flick your wrist and your fingers are resting on the buttons (resulting in misfires)


Oh yeah they're definitely not hair trigger light, I just have as I said, "heavy finger" syndrome where I like to rest my fingers on the mouse, and sometimes when flicking my mouse really hard, I'll push my fingertips down gently and with the G303 that'd actuate the switches, it also happened when watching angles and going to do a 180 or something. That's just my experience though, as you said.


----------



## Melan

Just received my hotline 303 feet and reinstalled default base. CPI is now at 402 @ 400, instead of 420 with modified base. Yey.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

I'm going to point out after what happened and how long it's gone on that this is why we ask that rule-breaking posts be reported (the older ones were not). This is ALSO why we ask that you do not reply to rule-breaking posts, it's only more to clean up even if the replies don't break the rules.

Let's continue properly, please.


----------



## gujukal

Just a received my G303 that i bought used, only problem it has is sensor rattle. Will the rattle affect the tracking or any other issues? The tracking seems fine but im not too picky, the rattle sound is a bit annoying though.


----------



## Melan

Well, if it seems fine - it's fine. Rattle didn't affect tracking on two of my 303s either but I fixed the lens for the same "it's annoying" reason.

Of course if you use high CPI steps (somewhere around 5000 and higher) it did show some issues with cursor picking up movements.


----------



## gujukal

Thats true, I might fix the rattle since it seems not too complicated. Just have to find replacement mouse feet so i can open it up.


----------



## Melan

http://www.itaktech.com/products/hotline-games-logitech-g303-mouse-feet-2014-edition

There you go.


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Dunno if its something with the shape and the grip points but I'm having an infinitely better time tracking targets with the mouse in all my shooters since I cycled back to this mouse for a week.


Not just you mate, my kill death ratio in all shooters goes up when I switch to this mouse every single time, I hold it weird too, I have my thumb on the glossy light up back part, in like this weird claw grip im pretty sure no one else does, lol


----------



## gujukal

Thanks


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> Not just you mate, my kill death ratio in all shooters goes up when I switch to this mouse every single time, I hold it weird too, I have my thumb on the glossy light up back part, in like this weird claw grip im pretty sure no one else does, lol


See? Deal with the devil isn't so bad. You get better at all shooters at the price of infinite physical suffering.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> Not just you mate, my kill death ratio in all shooters goes up when I switch to this mouse every single time, I hold it weird too, I have my thumb on the glossy light up back part, in like this weird claw grip im pretty sure no one else does, lol
> 
> 
> 
> See? Deal with the devil isn't so bad. You get better at all shooters at the price of infinite physical suffering.
Click to expand...

Can confirm


----------



## ejohnson

Mine goes up when I switch back to my 502. I have monster hands tho.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> Not just you mate, my kill death ratio in all shooters goes up when I switch to this mouse every single time, I hold it weird too, I have my thumb on the glossy light up back part, in like this weird claw grip im pretty sure no one else does, lol


My K/D and performance spikes up greatly any time I switch from a Zowie mouse to my G303 (when you go from Huano to Omron - the transition is like night and day). But as weird as this is for me (in my experience), I have played my best games using a Mionix Castor and supposedly the button 'lag' is worse than the G303's. Lag or no lag, if the overall feel of the mouse helps you aim and play well overall, that's all that should really matter


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> My K/D and performance spikes up greatly any time I switch from a Zowie mouse to my G303 (when you go from Huano to Omron - the transition is like night and day). But as weird as this is for me (in my experience), I have played my best games using a Mionix Castor and supposedly the button 'lag' is worse than the G303's. Lag or no lag, if the overall feel of the mouse helps you aim and play well overall, that's all that should really matter


Mouse shape and mousepad glide are the biggest performance changers and always will be (in my opinion)

I can't aim as best as I can unless I have a qck heavy or mionix alioth, I've tried every pad - after wear I can't aim anymore unless I change sensitivity which I have no interest in doing. So I just stock up on both of those pads and leave extras in the closet! =]

If you find something that works best - keep it or even get doubles of it later, cause chances are low you will find something better than your favorite


----------



## hotwheels1997

Unfortunately, even though I aim better with it, the G303 started causing me very slight pain in wrist and forearm. Will miss the sensor and buttons, had even fixed the rattle. EC2-A main driver now. Will give it a try or two after a while ,hope It doesn't build up pain in any areas. It's still the most comfortable mouse shape i've used, but my body doesn't agree.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Unfortunately, even though I aim better with it, the G303 started causing me very slight pain in wrist and forearm. Will miss the sensor and buttons, had even fixed the rattle. EC2-A main driver now. Will give it a try or two after a while ,hope It doesn't build up pain in any areas. It's still the most comfortable mouse shape i've used, but my body doesn't agree.


You should try doing these. They might help with your pain issues. These in general should be a must for G303 users.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> These in general should be a must for *all users*.


FTFY.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> FTFY.


It is ,in general, useful not only for gamers too. My wrist is very weak and often hurts ,will try out these exercices.


----------



## ncck

Resistance squeeze for the wrist, the little coil thing


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Resistance squeeze for the wrist


You simply sound stupid. I lift weights, but simply have problems with my wrist and back.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

I'm thinking about debraiding my cord because it's just really heavy and annoying. If I flick fast I can feel the cord move back and forth. I'm just wondering if the rubber cord is actually thin or not, because I won't bother if it's just the same thickness basically.


----------



## Melan

Get your self a DA cord and debraid it. It's really light and flexible.


----------



## Bucake

optionally, i think the G302 cable is a perfect fit. you can get them @ ebay


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> You should try doing these. They might help with your pain issues. These in general should be a must for G303 users.


Some of these you shouldn't do unless you are properly warmed up. I would probably add 1-2 mins of warmup before you do these. Could be a stretching regiment (there are some stretch excercises designed to warm up, carefully used ofc), intu-flow, situps/pushups, jump rope, some shadow boxing or similar. This will have the added effect that you will be better after since both your brain and muscle work faster when you are warmed up.


----------



## VESPA5

Interesting. My hand stopped cramping up and getting sore when I stopped using my G303 and started using my Castor and EC2-A more. Coincidence? Maybe


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Interesting. My hand stopped cramping up and getting sore when I stopped using my G303 and started using my Castor and EC2-A more. Coincidence? Maybe


You're comparing an unorthodox ambidextrous shaped mouse that is specifically made for certain grips, with mice that are full ergonomic with finger rests..... Of course your hand is gonna stop cramping up and getting sore, if you weren't comfortable with the grip in the first place.


----------



## Robobot

I had a G303 at work and had horrible hand cramps till I brought in my FK. The shape is really... it either works really well for you, or it's extremely uncomfortable. It's not an in-between like other shapes are.


----------



## duhizy

I figured out what was causing my pain, but it probably isn't a fix that most people here will like. I raised my DPI to 600 from 400, I believe it stopped the pain from occurring because it decreases the amount of force that is exerted on my wrist when I swipe and it was a big help when I tried to play MOBAs like league that are likely to be more damaging to the wrist because its 2Dness requires you to move your mouse less distance then something like CSGO (this meant more wrist movement for me). For games like CSGO your wrist is likely to be more rigid when holding this mouse because you are constantly lifting and swiping across your mouse pad, the shape of this mouse seems to require you to exert more pressure then other shapes when doing this to gain stability; however, when you are at this midway point for other games you don't need this extra grip so you relax and end up using more wrist. Shape still sucks tho, I never had pain with I used an FK, still gunna sell this thing the second Zowie gives us a 3366 mouse or the scream one has good reviews.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> You're comparing an unorthodox ambidextrous shaped mouse that is specifically made for certain grips, with mice that are full ergonomic with finger rests..... Of course your hand is gonna stop cramping up and getting sore, if you weren't comfortable with the grip in the first place.


I agree with ya! It's a risk/reward thing for me and the G303. Of all the mice I own, the G303 has the most insanely accurate and responsive sensor of them all (in my experience of course - purely subjective). My aim with the G303 is just a tad better than if I were to use my Castor or EC2-A BUT at the cost of my hand cramping up. Risk/reward. So if I knew I was only going to play a round or two of BF4 Conquest (and the ticket count isn't set to a gazillion or the timer isn't set to 90-120 friggin' minutes) ---- I'll use the G303. But for periods of over an hour or so, I'll use a more ergonomic mouse.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> I raised my DPI to 600 from 400, I believe it stopped the pain from occurring because it decreases the amount of force that is exerted on my wrist when I swipe


on this subject, gamers are so obsessed with keeping the same cm/360 when they switch between mice. i however found that i don't want this at all.. i handle all mice differently based on their shape and weight, and with all of them i prefer a different cm/360.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> on this subject, gamers are so obsessed with keeping the same cm/360 when they switch between mice. i however found that i don't want this at all.. i handle all mice differently based on their shape and weight, and with all of them i prefer a different cm/360.


Pretty much. "My" sensitivity is whatever makes a 180° snap feel natural/fluid/controlled...weight,surface, sensor and believe it or not even things like LOD all play into this. My original "default" measure of a 360 was just literally the width of whatever pad I'd be using at the time, which I guess is why I've always hovered in the 40-45cm range.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I agree with ya! It's a risk/reward thing for me and the G303. Of all the mice I own, the G303 has the most insanely accurate and responsive sensor of them all (in my experience of course - purely subjective). My aim with the G303 is just a tad better than if I were to use my Castor or EC2-A BUT at the cost of my hand cramping up. Risk/reward. So if I knew I was only going to play a round or two of BF4 Conquest (and the ticket count isn't set to a gazillion or the timer isn't set to 90-120 friggin' minutes) ---- I'll use the G303. But for periods of over an hour or so, I'll use a more ergonomic mouse.


I don't think it's worth it in the long round, I agree that the G303 can be more accurate and overall feel better at aiming, but if it bothers you to hold it, you are only going to feel worse about it.

Keep playing with the mouse you feel is most comfortable, and practice with it / don't change mice that often so you 'feel at home' and get to aim just as good as the G303.

I can sit and compare my ZA13 and G303 side by side all the time, saying the g303 is more accurate, this and that.. but if I played with the ZA13 for a week, I'd forget all about the g303 completely. Sooner or later, a good 3366 release is gonna come out


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> on this subject, gamers are so obsessed with keeping the same cm/360 when they switch between mice. i however found that i don't want this at all.. i handle all mice differently based on their shape and weight, and with all of them i prefer a different cm/360.


I find it helpful for my self. It keeps mind off the "damn sens feels a little bit wrong" thought and I've always found my 65cm/360 sens to be pretty much the perfect balance between mobility and precision in any game. Granted in games like quake and tribes I use accel and higher sens respectively.


----------



## Mx518

Hello, I bought a refurbished G303 from Amazon, I'm still waiting for it to arrive.
Is it safe - and especially useful - to remove the braided cord and leave just the rubber one?
Option two would be buy/find a cheap mouse and use their (i suppose) thinner cord...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291686378638
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162003761551

I've got another question, is suggested to update the firmware or it might increase click input latency? I saw stock dpi are 400/800/1600/3200 (which are plenty for me) so I'd like to avoid Logitech software if possible...


----------



## Melan

You can just buy a cord instead of a entire mouse.

Debraiding 303 cord is easy but time consuming.


----------



## chr1spe

Maybe my fiery
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mx518*
> 
> Hello, I bought a refurbished G303 from Amazon, I'm still waiting for it to arrive.
> Is it safe - and especially useful - to remove the braided cord and leave just the rubber one?
> Option two would be buy/find a cheap mouse and use their (i suppose) thinner cord...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291686378638
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/162003761551
> 
> I've got another question, is suggested to update the firmware or it might increase click input latency? I saw stock dpi are 400/800/1600/3200 (which are plenty for me) so I'd like to avoid Logitech software if possible...


You can buy old deathadder unbraided cables for like 5$ on ebay. I don't think the G303 click latency has been changed and a refurbished mouse may or may not come with the stock firmware. I'm pretty sure you can use the software without updating the firmware anyway.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> You can buy old deathadder unbraided cables for like 5$ on ebay.


are you sure? i've only seen braided ones for the DA.
if you happen to have a link, i'd appreciate it ^^


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> are you sure? i've only seen braided ones for the DA.
> if you happen to have a link, i'd appreciate it ^^


Hmm, I can't find them, but I was sure someone linked them before. Maybe I'm just blind and it was braided. I actually have the original cable, but i have my cable set up in such a way that the cable almost doesn't matter at all and feels fine even with the horrible original g303 cable.


----------



## Mx518

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You can just buy a cord instead of a entire mouse.


True, but I cant find new mice for 1-2€ with thin (=cheap?) cable...


----------



## Melan

Cable in these 1$ mice is soldered (poorly) to the pcb. 5$ can get you a good DA cable.


----------



## Mx518

My G303 arrived. Had sensor rattle but I fixed it in 10 minutes...

Compared to my Mx518, its lighter and quicker so I had to reduce my in-game sensivity...

1) Polling rate is not 1000 MHz stable (all energy saving features disabled)... it polls between 0.7 and 1.3ms... is that OK?

2) Shape is not that good compared to mx518... first games I played ****, then I started slowly improving but I could even need a week to get good again...

3) Tracking seems outstanding and the sensor is super super super snappy but I dont know if it's caused by reduced weight or not... without "Angle snapping" it feels very raw compared to Mx518.

I have got my Mx518 from 11 years, always used at 250hz or 500hz...
Mousepad Steelpad 4S (aluminium), on that surface the Mx518 has a PCS of 2m/s.


----------



## Bucake

1) not ok, unless it's the same with your MX518 on 1khz. keep in mind that polling rate will always fluctuate a bit, and more so with increased CPU activity. as in if you compare mice then make sure circumstances are the same.
in good circumstances it should be polling very close to 1khz consistently, with maybe the occasional fluctuation of 1 or 2 dozens.


----------



## Mx518

*Polling rate 1000hz at 1m/s movements, IRRC I've already seen people within 1.05/0.95ms range, but not 1.2/0.8ms range*










*Mouse tested at a medium speed, counts look good but far from perfect*










*Same test, velocity doesn't look good (IMHO it's related to unstable polling)*










Any thoughts? I'm testing this G303 on a modern Laptop with USB 3.0 only ports... Later I'm installing Setpoint and testing with 500hz...

*Can somebody test G303 on XHCI Usb3 ports? Thanks*


----------



## IaVoR

I can do a test on my G303 however.. I have no clue what to do or even how to read these things


----------



## zaQon

https://gyazo.com/3c797baaa5b6d7ddb49427abc1f30681 16k hz get on my level.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zaQon*
> 
> https://gyazo.com/3c797baaa5b6d7ddb49427abc1f30681 16k hz get on my level.


1000m/s get on my level

http://cdn.overclock.net/2/24/2489dc10_01.png


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IaVoR*
> 
> I can do a test on my G303 however.. I have no clue what to do or even how to read these things


^^This







All I want to understand is stuff on my screen that says "Your Team Won" or "Your Team Lost" or "Did you enjoy helping your team win for over 90% of this match's duration? Good, because you're going to the losing team now for auto-balance." <--









These graphs are pretty neat. Unless I nitpick my mice's performance with a microscope, these mini-spikes in polling rate here and there are pretty, what's the word I'm looking for, oh, yeah: "negligible"


----------



## Mx518

Testing @ 400 DPI - 1000hz

It seems ever worse... is that normal? I am looking from 400 dpi tests from INO or other users...

Mayb it's just my hand movement... or maybe it's Windows 10: http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/1530#post_23691604


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mx518*
> 
> My G303 arrived. Had sensor rattle but I fixed it in 10 minutes...


What did you do to fix it, please?


----------



## Mx518

Open youtube and write *g303 fix*... you need some two-side tape (0.5-1mm width) and a very small X screwdriver 

I have tried the mouse on my desktop and it does stable polling, from 0.998 to 1.002 ms range.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mx518*
> 
> Open youtube and write *g303 fix*... you need some two-side tape (0.5-1mm width) and a very small X screwdriver


Yup. I saw vids on how to do this on YouTube. The precautionary part are the mice feet. They're slapped on there pretty well and I actually had a tough time trying not to mess them up. If you're not careful, you'll end up with a new problem (uneven mice feet or having to buy replacements which cost about 1/3 of the mouse itself!) after fixing an existing one (the sensor rattle).

Speaking of the sensor, when I took my G303 apart, I was amazed on how weak the sensor was attached to the unit itself. No wonder there's sensor wobble. It's sad that this seems to be the mouse's weakest attribute when it comes to build. I guess when you're mass producing this mouse, it would be too costly to add 2 pieces of tape to secure the sensor in place


----------



## Mx518

Please could somebody perform a MouseTester at medium / slow speeds @ 1000Hz and post it ?
Thanks!!!


----------



## zzuper

http://www.elgiganten.se/product/datorer-tillbehor/mus-och-tangentbord/LTG303/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-pe-gaming-mus


"Utgående modell! Gäller så långt lagret räcker!"

which means; "End of life model! Valid while supplies last!"

: ] g303 successor confirmed?


----------



## m0uz

Introducing the Logitech G304 Daedalus OkWeAdmitItWeMessedUpTheShape!

Improved with seventeen more angular corners to stick into your hand!


----------



## Melan

I'd rather see them rework the lens mount with pixart.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Introducing the Logitech G304 Daedalus OkWeAdmitItWeMessedUpTheShape!
> 
> Improved with seventeen more angular corners to stick into your hand!


It's pretty interesting how Logitech will sell mice that is ergonomically comfy (most of the time) when it specifically caters to productivity, web browsing, etc. like the MX Master or M705. But when it comes to 'gamers' - it's "woah woah woah! Let's release an awesome sensor and slap it on body that LOOKS _cool_." It's like they took a page out of Mad Catz blueprint books and sat down and watched Michael Bay's rendition of Transformers while they were designing their gaming mice.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I'd rather see them rework the lens mount with pixart.


That's something Logitech can fix themselves though.


----------



## qsxcv

yup it's easy
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 
> see logitech?
> this is how you gotta heat-stake the lens to the sensor. gotta melt the post with the shell of the ic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lens is super tight; no rattle at all.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> It's pretty interesting how Logitech will sell mice that is ergonomically comfy (most of the time) when it specifically caters to productivity, web browsing, etc. like the MX Master or M705. But when it comes to 'gamers' - it's "woah woah woah! Let's release an awesome sensor and slap it on body that LOOKS _cool_." It's like they took a page out of Mad Catz blueprint books and sat down and watched Michael Bay's rendition of Transformers while they were designing their gaming mice.


Those mice look horrendous for me. I'm pretty sure there is no possible way you could grip those mice with anything except a palm grip. People really really really need to get over calling shapes bad in general and just say the shape doesn't work for them. I would choose the g303 shape over those in an instant and you probably couldn't pay me to use those shapes. Well maybe you could, but it would cost quite a lot. The g303 is one of the best fingertip shapes on the market imo.


----------



## Melan

Why go with that? You can just super glue it. /s


----------



## subreach87

tried the g303, the shape is disguisting and cramped my hands even though im a fingertip/claw gripper. If I had the balls and a brain I'd put a g303 in a kinzu with omrons.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> If I had the balls and a brain I'd put a g303 in a kinzu with omrons.


which do you have?


----------



## subreach87

Neither, but at least I dont subject myself to logitech shapes.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Those mice look horrendous for me. I'm pretty sure there is no possible way you could grip those mice with anything except a palm grip. People really really really need to get over calling shapes bad in general and just say the shape doesn't work for them. I would choose the g303 shape over those in an instant and you probably couldn't pay me to use those shapes. Well maybe you could, but it would cost quite a lot. The g303 is one of the best fingertip shapes on the market imo.


I'm no expert but the doctor we had come into our office to help with our staff's workstation setups and ergonomics came to my cramped up cubicle and saw my G303 at my desk and the very first thing she said was without hesitation: "_That has to be the most carpal tunnel syndrome inducing shape for a mouse that I have ever seen_."







Again, if you feel that this mouse or that mouse feels great in your hand, then, you win!


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I'm no expert but the doctor we had come into our office to help with our staff's workstation setups and ergonomics came to my cramped up cubicle and saw my G303 at my desk and the very first thing she said was without hesitation: "_That has to be the most carpal tunnel syndrome inducing shape for a mouse that I have ever seen_."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, if you feel that this mouse or that mouse feels great in your hand, then, you win!


One random doctor's opinion doesn't really concern me that much. Maybe if there was research to back it up, but I've never seen anything. I've heardopinions from doctors that are entirely contrary to what works for me. For example I've seen claims ambi mice are worse for your hands than ergo, but for me I get a ton of cramping and problems with by far a majority of ergo shapes. I've still not seen any research to back that claim up though and it would be extremely difficult to actually conduct considering that there are tons of different ergo and ambi shapes to take in to account.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> One random doctor's opinion doesn't really concern me that much. Maybe if there was research to back it up, but I've never seen anything. I've heardopinions from doctors that are entirely contrary to what works for me. For example I've seen claims ambi mice are worse for your hands than ergo, but for me I get a ton of cramping and problems with by far a majority of ergo shapes. I've still not seen any research to back that claim up though and it would be extremely difficult to actually conduct considering that there are tons of different ergo and ambi shapes to take in to account.


I hear ya. PhD or not, doctor or not, I just go with what my body tells me. If my wrist is getting sore using my G303 but I'm wrecking the opponents, I have to ask myself if this is worth the collateral damage down the road (carpal tunnel, blah blah blah). Same goes for my EC2-A. I aim well but damn my index and middle fingers get really tired after only a few matches of BF4 (I do a lot of short controlled bursts with assault rifles). First world problems or so-called Platinum Plated Problems, I know


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The G303 is known to activate certain pressure points.

Just look at what it can do!



Just touching it is not safe!


----------



## SmashTV

I decided to switch hands the other day and oddly enough the mouse was by far the most comfortable one in my left hand as opposed to my right.


----------



## trism

G303 does not by itself cause anyone to have the carpal tunnel syndrome. The shape may not be suitable for your own grip style and forcing yourself to use the mouse is what can cause the CTS. I can see forced grips being bad with any shape, really.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> G303 does not by itself cause anyone to have the carpal tunnel syndrome. The shape may not be suitable for your own grip style and forcing yourself to use the mouse is what can cause the CTS. I can see forced grips being bad with any shape, really.


Who knows what actually cause CTS. I do know that people have different hands/grips and play styles that result in any given mouse causing soreness or pain. This particular mouse, G303, seems to top the list of gamers reporting pain (myself included).

This was taken from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/detail_carpal_tunnel.htm - For all we know, hell, what we eat while sitting down could cause this to happen.

_"There is little clinical data to prove whether repetitive and forceful movements of the hand and wrist during work or leisure activities can cause carpal tunnel syndrome."_


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Who knows what actually cause CTS. I do know that people have different hands/grips and play styles that result in any given mouse causing soreness or pain. This particular mouse, G303, seems to top the list of gamers reporting pain (myself included).
> 
> This was taken from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/detail_carpal_tunnel.htm - For all we know, hell, what we eat while sitting down could cause this to happen.
> 
> _"There is little clinical data to prove whether repetitive and forceful movements of the hand and wrist during work or leisure activities can cause carpal tunnel syndrome."_


Sure, no one knows what ultimately causes the CTS but even still, it is not the shape itself, it never is - if one gets pain (or even the possibly resulting CTS eventually) by using the G303, it is because they are using something what they should not be using or they are using it wrong. Why use the mouse if you get pain from doing it? I don't personally have any issues with the shape because I use a natural non-forced claw grip. It feels fine in my grip albeit I hate the narrow base and curved bottom which make the mouse to easily tilt while playing. Low LOD does not help either. I've tried palming it and that will no doubt cause pain but it applies for literally any ambidextrous shape for me at least.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zzuper*
> 
> http://www.elgiganten.se/product/datorer-tillbehor/mus-och-tangentbord/LTG303/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-pe-gaming-mus
> 
> 
> "Utgående modell! Gäller så långt lagret räcker!"
> 
> which means; "End of life model! Valid while supplies last!"
> 
> : ] g303 successor confirmed?


If anyone sees a new model for sale, please link! insta-buy for me


----------



## equlix

It's never to early to start the g304 hype train


----------



## wonderboysam

Hah, just hoping for a G303 with a fixed sensor!


----------



## kingfoxii

I hope for a G303 with a fixed shape. Maybe a G403..


----------



## qsxcv

makes no sense for g303 to become end of life before g302 right?
edit: well that site lists both so idk


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *equlix*
> 
> It's never to early to start the g304 hype train


Too right







.

About time they bury the awful g302/303 series and chalk it down to someone's insane (drunk) effort to present a so-called comfortable gaming mouse.

Really hoping the next gaming series mouse takes on the famed G3 shape, then I shall purchase a whole retail shipment box from the distributor myself. Please bring back that wonderful G3 series shape but with an updated 3366 sensor.

Suspect Logitech will sell more of the next new design than they ever did with the now defunct G302/303 models, that is if they stick with the desired and wanted G3 shape.


----------



## m0uz

I might be wrong and, to be honest, I hope I'm wrong but I think it's just a language barrier issue. Maybe they're stopping selling Logitech products? Unlikely, but still possible.


----------



## SmashTV

Too soon for that to happen.


----------



## VESPA5

I never really understood companies that for the most part, ignored feedback and did whatever the hell they wanted to do in regards to innovation and design (kinda like Apple, they'll release something that's 'innovative' when it was an idea that was already used years ago). The G3 was a well liked mouse? Let's start releasing mice that look like they cater to alien hands or steal a page from the Mad Catz drawing board!









On the flipside: "If Henry Ford had asked his customers, they would have told him they want a faster horse..."


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> or steal a page from the Mad Catz drawing board!


Well iirc Mad Catz's signature shape was originally the product of Dexin id. Now if you want to name a company that seemingly stole a page out of Mad Catz's/Dexin's drawing board that would be Razer.

Mad Catz even took them to court over it(i didn't read up on it, so i might be incorrect as to what the lawsuit pertained to).


----------



## FeelKun

I finally bought a 303 from best buy to replace my fk1 2015 edition (White logo) and I have no issues with the shape. I palm grip it sort of.

My question is with the logitech surface tuning do I leave it default? Using a Zowie GS-R

400 DPI/1000hz

Thanks


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Midgetaur*
> 
> I finally bought a 303 from best buy to replace my fk1 2015 edition (White logo) and I have no issues with the shape. I palm grip it sort of.
> 
> My question is with the logitech surface tuning do I leave it default? Using a Zowie GS-R
> 
> 400 DPI/1000hz
> 
> Thanks


if u like your LOD now, u don't need to calibrate the surface, if u wanna lower the LOD u can


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Midgetaur*
> 
> I finally bought a 303 from best buy to replace my fk1 2015 edition (White logo) and I have no issues with the shape. I palm grip it sort of.
> 
> My question is with the logitech surface tuning do I leave it default? Using a Zowie GS-R
> 
> 400 DPI/1000hz
> 
> Thanks


Just picked up a G303 as well. I am actually liking it so far, it's a darn good mouse. Full palm feels weird for the index & middle finger. So i have those slightly clawed so my fingers aren't hanging over the buttons. Shape doesn't bother me at all. I played for a good 3-4 hours yesterday with 0 issues. Sensor is grrrreat, buttons are top notch.


----------



## Pragmatist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Just picked up a G303 as well. I am actually liking it so far, it's a darn good mouse. Full palm feels weird for the index & middle finger. So i have those slightly clawed so my fingers aren't hanging over the buttons. Shape doesn't bother me at all. I played for a good 3-4 hours yesterday with 0 issues. Sensor is grrrreat, buttons are top notch.


Yeah, it's a great mouse and I actually improved my aim that is fairly good even more with the G303 since it suits my hybrid claw grip. However, I have the dreaded sensor rattle, but it doesn't seem to cause any performance issues luckily.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pragmatist*
> 
> Yeah, it's a great mouse and I actually improved my aim that is fairly good even more with the G303 since it suits my hybrid claw grip. However, I have the dreaded sensor rattle, but it doesn't seem to cause any performance issues luckily.


I had a similar issue where I had no sensor rattle. Then as weeks went by while using it, the rattle sounded louder and louder to the point where I could see the pointer on my screen have post-travel after I stopped. The 'ol tape a piece of paper underneath the sensor and shake it gently test will show you how much pre/post travel your aim is having if you like flicking the mouse or do a lot of snap aiming. Otherwise, the switches are fantastic and the sensor is quite awesome.


----------



## Venrar

The replacement they sent me rattles worse than my original g303.

It's sort of different though. My original rattles left to right, this one rattles up and down.


----------



## Pa12a

I'm fairly certain they don't give two flying Tootsie Rolls about the rattle issue anymore.

You could send in every G303 like 5 times and get the same result each and every time.


----------



## Venrar

They were pretty good about it. They just straight up sent me a new one. But when I shake it, sounds like there's a screw loose on the inside. It's way worse than the original one I have.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I made sure to get the replacement plan at best buy so as soon as i hear some rattling, bes believe i am taking that back a$ap like rocky.


----------



## Venrar

I got mine right at release -- never really knew it would be that bad. It's not something I've ever really expected from Logitech. Most of the peripherals I've bought from them have been fine.


----------



## Bucake

yeah they failed hard at doing a relatively simple copy-paste + change around the model a bit to implement the 3366/pcb.
-50 points for logicool with this one

and on that note, qsxcv bettered them :-/
so much for complete faith in logitech with technicalities! but yeah, it's a company after all, maybe they just can't be bothered putting more money and time in to perfect it all.

booooo...


----------



## Venrar

It's a conspiracy against finger-tip grip users I'm sure. If you look at the evidence -- literally every single mouse geared towards fingertip grip users has very glaring flaws. It's discrimination. It's prejudice. It's racism. I can just picture the fingertip grip hating neo-nazis of these faceless organizations goose stepping as they gleefully breaking every single g303 that rolls along the coveryer belt on the assembly line just to cause consternation to finger-tip users. Or refusing to put on board memory on the abysus. Or the disgustingly stiff clicks of the fk2. Or the three thousand ms button latency on the castor. Disgusting.


----------



## Klopfer

I like to use my Xornet II in a "relaxed" Fingertip ...
hope CM will offer a "Spawn II" with 3360 and 20M Omrons ...
( yea, I got big Hands







, ~20cm length and ~10-10.5cm width ... )


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> hope CM will offer a "Spawn II" with 3360 and 20M Omrons ...
> ( yea, I got big Hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , ~20cm length and ~10-10.5cm width ... )


Exactly what i'm waiting for.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> It's a conspiracy against finger-tip grip users I'm sure. If you look at the evidence -- literally every single mouse geared towards fingertip grip users has very glaring flaws. It's discrimination. It's prejudice. It's racism. I can just picture the fingertip grip hating neo-nazis of these faceless organizations goose stepping as they gleefully breaking every single g303 that rolls along the coveryer belt on the assembly line just to cause consternation to finger-tip users. Or refusing to put on board memory on the abysus. Or the disgustingly stiff clicks of the fk2. Or the three thousand ms button latency on the castor. Disgusting.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Hey not sure if this is allowed but i decided not to keep my g303 and have an unopened pack of hotline games competition mouse skates that have 2 sets in it. Selling it on ebay at the moment you won't have to wait a month to receive them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/111998888654?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Major thanks to user @2shellbonus , managed to *fix my sensor rattle without opening the mouse* ,thanks to his explanation:
> Pics of mine:
> 
> I've circled the jammed paper . It's easily reversible ,it can be pulled out rather easily with a pen . I used a 0.5mm pen to jam it. It feels good to not rattle, even though my rattle wasn't affecting tracking, the sound was annoying and increasing with time. Did some 5m/s flicks and paper is still in place and rattle nowhere to be found. Thank you , @2shellbonus , again.


I can't believe I'm resorting to soviet era patchwork adhoc diy fixit solutions to fix a mouse I spent a hundred dollars on. The quality control manager in whatever eastern bloc factory Logitech is building these things in should be dragged out in the street and shot. I feel like I bought a Yugo, or I'm touring some decrepit old Ukranian nuclear facility and they're patching leaks with duct tape and orthodox prayer.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> I can't believe I'm resorting to soviet era patchwork adhoc diy fixit solutions to fix a mouse I spent a hundred dollars on. The quality control manager in whatever eastern bloc factory Logitech is building these things in should be dragged out in the street and shot. I feel like I bought a Yugo, or I'm touring some decrepit old Ukranian nuclear facility and they're patching leaks with duct tape and orthodox prayer.


I just can't believe they're still selling it and most likely still producing it, damaging their reputation no doubt


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Venrar*
> 
> The quality control manager in whatever eastern bloc factory Logitech is building these things in should be dragged out in the street and shot. I feel like I bought a Yugo, or I'm touring some decrepit old Ukranian nuclear facility and they're patching leaks with duct tape and orthodox prayer.


Unfortunately sunshine, you have an exclusive all Made in China product so get use to the lower standards currently available for any Company wanting to build their input devices there.

The only thing they're building now in the Eastern block countries, is hatred and suspicion which might actually beat the United States level of fear and hate, go figure







.


----------



## Mx518

Has somebody de-braided the stock cable? I'd like to know if it feels better then... it the braid thin or thick?








Thanks!


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mx518*
> 
> Has somebody de-braided the stock cable? I'd like to know if it feels better then... it the braid thin or thick?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


I have de-braided my G303, there are several ways to do it...

- Keep rubber and lose braid.
- Keep braid but remove rubber
- Keep braid but remove rubber and shielding.
- Remove everything and just go bare naked with the tiny cables.

Losing either the rubber or the braid, but preferably the rubber and put the braid back on afterwards is most flexible imho. Feels like my Zowie FC2/FK2 flexible








You can see in the picture how the cable got reattached, I need to find a better way to do this so it doesnt look like a mess. I still have 1 leftover cable from my G502 haha. Anyone any tips?

Also, the crappy feet are solved for me, i just figured i could put on original FK2 shoes after using a knife to make the base flat:




The sides bend upwards a little bit which is no issue, in fact it keeps the rather lightweight G303 from becoming unstable, even more so than the standard left/right feet.

So far I've played a full day and non of my fingers ever touched the small area that's sticking out, not even close.


----------



## Bucake

haha, that looks horrendous. but i like it









the parts of the feet that stick out would probably annoy like a lot, though


----------



## kingfoxii

Thats not a mouse anymore..
..its a hamster!


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> haha, that looks horrendous. but i like it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the parts of the feet that stick out would probably annoy like a lot, though


It would help it fly though like the advert


----------



## daunow

double post


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*


but why


----------



## Marctraider

Dear Mouse users.

Please, any complaint you have about my Hamster you can pass along to the Logitech Mouse team! \o/

I still have feet from EC2-a i could probably use those since they are a bit more 'rounded off'

These pads are so thin i could probably bend and stick then to the sides


----------



## Mx518

I have removed the braided cord and feels better, the cable is now more flexible! It tooks 10 minutes


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mx518*
> 
> I have removed the braided cord and feels better, the cable is now more flexible! It tooks 10 minutes


yeah, but you are not allowed to use a mouse other than the mx518, traitor


----------



## Mx518

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> yeah, but you are not allowed to use a mouse other than the mx518, traitor


Mx518 still feels very very good, but I wanted to try a mouse without angle snapping. *Still, cannot tell you if it's better with or without that "prediction".* Also, Mx518 works flawless up to only 250hz. 500hz are stable, but counts are reported in a very strange manner...


----------



## Marctraider

Ok I've replaced feet again this time with FC2-A, surprisingly the top feet is almost a perfect fit.
These pads's shape are less 'sharp' than the FK2's so the glide feels even better on my Xtrfy Mousepad



















Surprisingly the top feet only stick out a few mm at most which make the top feet really stiff and I forsee zero issues with it.

The bottom feet is still a bit too wide and sticks out 6-7mm or so, but even those feel sturdy and unless you actually use force to press on them hard they will just stay entirely flat









The original feet on the sides and sensor are just 0.3mm in height and serve no purpose other than aesthetics.
This is how the G303 is supposed to feel







Zowie feet quality with lightweight mouse and superb sensor!









I would bet that some of the other Zowie models might have a real fitting bottom feet for the G303 I'll look into that shortly.


----------



## Bucake

i always thought the MX518 was good for 1khz, but not even for 500hz? booooo, bad mouse.


----------



## Randallel

Has anyone recently bought a G303 without rattle? Just bought two and both had it. And is anyone's braided cord starting to tear? Seems like the braid isn't very durable, even though it's pretty thick.


----------



## Marctraider

Yes, the two ordered online here both had rattling. Fixed with double sided tape.

The third one I decided to get in a store where they don't keep high stock, it appeared to have been a correct model.

Too bad there is no way of knowing, the packaging seems equal.

And yeah the braiding isnt durable at all, it starts to wear fast and get messy. Its probably best to replace the whole cable and im actually going to seek a full replacement as most connectors are the same. If it means swapping out a few wires.


----------



## Buckmoney

I just bought mine about a month ago and still has yet to rattle.


----------



## Marctraider

Ok, I raped my Zowie FK2 and replaced the crappy cable with the awesome flexible Zowie cable







I had to swap over a few pins on the connector and cut some internal plastic which was easy with a knife.





(The base of the cable will sit properly when re-assembling mouse and tighten screws)


----------



## Bucake

i'm looking at these hotline gaming feet. has anyone here compared performance vs competition?
i presume 0.6mm is fine for G303?


----------



## Melan

Yes. I found no difference tbh.


----------



## Bucake

ok then.
if you turn out to be lying, i will find you Melan

anyone else have that his G303 does not 100% close? i have about half a mm space between the bottom and top shells. not that it's hindering, but.. it's just a shame!
this isn't my picture, but it shows well here: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XZc5_qDmka8/maxresdefault.jpg

booooo


----------



## IaVoR

Mine is closed like in the picture..


----------



## Bucake

closed?
i mean this: http://i.imgur.com/J2nRRiV.jpg

but i suppose it just wasn't designed to be fully shut


----------



## IaVoR

well since the picture was taken from the back I assumed only the back side of the mouse ... on the right side I have a small opening just before the button


----------



## Marctraider

Bad assembly, both my models cloae fine even interchanging parts. Be sure it doesnt affect button clicking...


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i'm looking at these hotline gaming feet. has anyone here compared performance vs competition?
> i presume 0.6mm is fine for G303?


Competition is more glide, performance is a bit rougher. Honestly though you won't feel much difference as pointer out earlier.

0.6mm is fine, the 0.28mm are just to put on top of the old logitechs.

Quality wise i think they are a bit meh. If i have to compare material vs Zowie feet the zowie's win hands down when it comes down to friction.

I'd probably take huperglides over them as well even if i never tried them.


----------



## Mx518

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i always thought the MX518 was good for 1khz, but not even for 500hz? booooo, bad mouse.


Polling is stable at 500hz, but it reports strange counts. In example, you are moving (average) 10 counts for every poll, it will report one 15 counts and one 5 counts report (average still 10)...









Also I don't find this G303 perfectly stable, a larger base would be better...


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> ok then.


I used standard base and hotline comp 303 feet for a month or so. Just went back to my sanded base with hyperglides and it's a lot better on glide and control despite extra cpi. Hotline get muddy with time on my corepad.


----------



## toastiro

Picked up one of CeeSA's paracord cables for my g303 in white, I'm using electro tape where it exits the mouse for now until some shrink tubing comes in the mail, also replaced the mouse feet with hotline games performance 0.6



The cable is perfect 10/10 feels like wireless which was my only real problem with the mouse so now its perfect! The feet feel like they were cut better so there's less drag than the stock feet, but they slide the same I would say(placebo?)

If you are annoyed by the cable hit up CeeSA it was fast shipping, great quality, good price, YMMV with the feet.

edit: shoutout to this thread where I learned of both of these mods, thanks guys I owe you for my perfect mouse.


----------



## dwnfall

Is there a mouse with similar clicks but with different shape? I love the clicks on this perfect for LoL gaming. But the shape does not work for me. Ideas?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> Is there a mouse with similar clicks but with different shape? I love the clicks on this perfect for LoL gaming. But the shape does not work for me. Ideas?


The only other mice with a small shape would be the Xornet II and the G100S.

Although both models mentioned, have inferior sensors compared to the G303's.


----------



## dwnfall

The size isn't the thing I want, the clicks is more what I want.. any mice have the same switches?


----------



## Bucake

well the G100s certainly does not have clicks as nice as the G303, but the shape of the G100s is better.
anyone who prefers the G303 shape is a demon - do not listen to them!


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> well the G100s certainly does not have clicks as nice as the G303, but the shape of the G100s is better.


The G100S costs like only $11.00USD hence what did you expect.

Far better to buy some decent switches and replace them on the G100S problem solved, plus you'll finally have the mouse clicks your heart desires.


----------



## kingfoxii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> well the G100s certainly does not have clicks as nice as the G303, but the shape of the G100s is better.
> anyone who prefers the G303 shape is a demon - do not listen to them!


this is 100% true.. i play super good with the G303, but i dont like the shape.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> this is 100% true.. i play super good with the G303, but i dont like the shape.


same and it drives me crazy.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> this is 100% true.. i play super good with the G303, but i dont like the shape.


Ever considered despite the awkward RSI inducing shape is EXACTLY why this mouse works so well?

Ive been back from the EC2-a and initially believed it was way better than G303.

I went back to G303 cuz something witb the EC2-a didnt feel good.

My accuracy notixably went up, i have no idea why but i just can be so much faster/accurate with it.

EC2-a has theoretically:

- best ergonomical shape
- same light weight
- better flexible cable
- superior mouse feet
- same accurate sensor (practically) although the logitechs are better on paper

All odds are against g303, but i think i know why. Its the shape and size, smaller size makes it easier to use fingers for precision, altho i also used ec2a with fingertip it was spreading my fingers to wide?

As for ergonomic/smooth shape it felt slippery due to that, im a sweaty person by nature and it felt like i had
Nothing in my hand, throwing me off at times.

The only awkward thing about logitech g303 are the sides sticking out









Written from iPhone


----------



## CorruptBE

Like I said a of pages ago, the initial "idea" behind the shape isn't bad, just the execution is to "sharp", needs to be smoothed out.


----------



## kingfoxii

Well my main problem is that my hand starts to hurt and after some time i get cramps. I play same as good with my FK2 and dont get cramps. I just like the sensor and the clicks of the G303 more. If it had the FK2 shape i would rename my unborn child like this mouse.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

In my ideal mouse rotation the G303 would be in it. That's ignoring the sensor too. The shape works.

Hell I like the Diamondback and Krait shape more, but I wouldn't want the G303 in that shape.


----------



## Bucake

i don't enjoy using it very much, especially because of those sharp edges. i perform well with it, but still i don't use it much.
a mixture of the G303 and G100s would probably work quite well for me, but right now i prefer the G100s over the G303.
too bad, because i like M1 and M2 of the G303 a lot, as well as its grippy sides.

maybe i haven't given it a fair chance though, i should probably use of exclusively for a few days


----------



## wonderboysam

7th time lucky boys!! Finally got a good g303







ordered from Logitech's eu store this time instead of amazon.co.uk who had been giving me old models!

Feels nice and secure performing well

S/N: 1552LZ


----------



## Bucake

old models? S/N?
so there's a difference between old / new?


----------



## wonderboysam

yea well the ones I was getting from amazon were SN: 1515~ which was around the same number as the first one I bought over a year ago

This one just felt better from the get go, I'm not sure how exactly more secure? better fitted? The last couple I bought rattled their way out of the box and just felt like there was no love was put into them!!

I dare not open this one even though I am curious to see if they have implemented a mechanism to secure the lens


----------



## e4stw00t

Got mine today from Amazon Germany, has distinct lens rattle - far more noticeable as on some youtube clips I have seen been uploaded as of late. S/N being 1526LZ.

Will be sent back tomorrow.


----------



## duhizy

Switch back to 3.5g deathadder for a week and the wrist pain i've had for the past few months is all but gone, never did I think that switching from an 89g mouse to a 115g would be healthier for my wrist....


----------



## kingfoxii

Everyone that thinks the G303 is compy is a demon. i can play with it yes, but there are a lot better shapes on the market.


----------



## Melan

I can play with DA, but it's awful. Same goes to pretty much any ergonomic shape out there (maybe minus MX500). G302/3 shape works just fine.


----------



## crovean

No issues with the shape here either. Just as comfortable as say a wmo to me. My fingers are pretty much on a 90 degree angle from my mousepad tho. I can imagine the shape being awful if you have your ring- and pinky finger flat like with palm grip or something.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> Everyone that thinks the G303 is compy is a demon. i can play with it yes, but there are a lot better shapes on the market.


If you claw I feel it's sent from heaven. This is coming from someone who palms everthing from Bae's booty to my mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crovean*
> 
> No issues with the shape here either. Just as comfortable as say a wmo to me. My fingers are pretty much on a 90 degree angle from my mousepad tho. I can imagine the shape being awful if you have your ring- and pinky finger flat like with palm grip or something.


After 4 Years of palm, once I touched the G303 my hands initially were set on the mouse palming, they shifted into claw naturally & I instantly saw the light.


----------



## frunction

How do you claw grippers make small aim adjustments?

I can fingertip or hybrid palm, but when clawing it feels like I can't make precise movements with my fingers like I can in the other two.


----------



## Klopfer

when I use a Mouse which I claw more , I always lower my sense







and make the small movements out of my wrist ... btw I prefer a lowered Sensor position too







...
but most Time I use a Palm / Claw Mix ...


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> Everyone that thinks the G303 is compy is a demon. i can play with it yes, but there are a lot better shapes on the market.


Nobody ever claimed it was the best shape? ??


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingfoxii*
> 
> Well my main problem is that my hand starts to hurt and after some time i get cramps. I play same as good with my FK2 and dont get cramps. I just like the sensor and the clicks of the G303 more. If it had the FK2 shape i would rename my unborn child like this mouse.


The Fk2 sadly feels even more awkward than even the G303 in my book, its supposed to be symmetrical / ambidextrous but for some reason it feels misshaped. Also the right side buttons feel really awkward.

Shows how much mice can be personal preference.


----------



## e4stw00t

Liked the FK much more than the G303 in terms of shape but both the FK1 as well as the FK2 been not wide enough at centre which made my hand cramp after some time - might look at the FK1+ but then again there are just too much things I personally dislike about Zowie that I might keep using my G100s till the end of time.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *e4stw00t*
> 
> I might keep using my G100s till the end of time.


Nothing wrong with that.

Don't forget you will have solid gamers still using the ancient WMO or IE 3.0 series and have no problems beating their competitors, using current spec gaming mice.


----------



## realistic01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> ancient WMO or IE 3.0 series and have no problems beating their competitors, using current spec gaming mice.


Thats because many people feel the MLT04, despite its flaws, is still king of sensor technology.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> The Fk2 sadly feels even more awkward than even the G303 in my book, its supposed to be symmetrical / ambidextrous but for some reason it feels misshaped. Also the right side buttons feel really awkward.
> 
> Shows how much mice can be personal preference.


Is that possible to be more awkward than the G303? lol

Fk feels pretty straight forward to me, surprised to read that it feels like so for you.


----------



## John665

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> How do you claw grippers make small aim adjustments?
> 
> I can fingertip or hybrid palm, but when clawing it feels like I can't make precise movements with my fingers like I can in the other two.


Agree! when I try to claw I feel like I can't make the small adjustment when aiming on the enemy's head for example


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John665*
> 
> Agree! when I try to claw I feel like I can't make the small adjustment when aiming on the enemy's head for example


It could be that you just aren't fully adjusted to the style is all.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> Switch back to 3.5g deathadder for a week and the wrist pain i've had for the past few months is all but gone, never did I think that switching from an 89g mouse to a 115g would be healthier for my wrist....


I know what you mean.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> How do you claw grippers make small aim adjustments?
> 
> I can fingertip or hybrid palm, but when clawing it feels like I can't make precise movements with my fingers like I can in the other two.


I have a claw/fingertip hybrid grip and a medium/small hand. Everyone is different but I've had the most precise aiming and versatility with this mouse (despite it's odd shape) than any other mouse. My only gripe with it involves quality control. The sensor rattle issue is real. Thankfully, there's a Best Buy nearby my house and they always seem to be cool with me exchanging mine for a new one. I just wonder why Logitech doesn't actually address this issue as much as we think they do. Perhaps maybe because they invest all their research on that extremely expensive G900 of theirs? Who knows.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I know what you mean.
> I have a claw/fingertip hybrid grip and a medium/small hand. Everyone is different but I've had the most precise aiming and versatility with this mouse (despite it's odd shape) than any other mouse. My only gripe with it involves quality control. The sensor rattle issue is real. Thankfully, there's a Best Buy nearby my house and they always seem to be cool with me exchanging mine for a new one. I just wonder why Logitech doesn't actually address this issue as much as we think they do. Perhaps maybe because they invest all their research on that extremely expensive G900 of theirs? Who knows.


We have heard more stories about the newer batches finally making rounds in multiple areas which is good. I am glad Logi is understanding with the issus when people hit them up about it. Also good that your Best Buy is understanding as well.

I have said it multiple times in the last week. But if you can adjust to the shape this mouse is the best bang you can get. I just snatched one up with no sensor rattle & a 2 year replacement plan from Best Buy for less than $53 dollars. Great deal.


----------



## Z Overlord

In MouseMovementRecorder (from MarkC) on the desktop, I sometimes get one green bar and one red bar when moving my G303, is that normal? It's the same in 250, 500, and 100Hz polling rates and 400 and 800 CPI. I don't have the MarkC fixed installed, this is just me moving the mouse on my desktop, no game open. My firmware is the newest version, software closed.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> In MouseMovementRecorder (from MarkC) on the desktop, I sometimes get one green bar and one red bar when moving my G303, is that normal? It's the same in 250, 500, and 100Hz polling rates and 400 and 800 CPI. I don't have the MarkC fixed installed, this is just me moving the mouse on my desktop, no game open. My firmware is the newest version, software closed.


Never heard of this issue so i will say no it's not normal.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Never heard of this issue so i will say no it's not normal.


huh, really? This is what it looks like:


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

My bad, i totally missed that you said moustester, lol i literally missed that when reading. I literally envisioned a red & green random bar on your screen when moving the mouse. I should pay better attention BUT i am watching the NBA finals. Lol

So i have no idea if it's normal, someone else can help here i'm sure.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> huh, really? This is what it looks like:


Something is definitely wrong.it looks like you aren't moving the mouse that fast then either your system or the mouse lags, gets a delayed report, and somehow shows way too many counts. You can see that you are getting huge jumps in the number of counts at the same times as drops in your polling rate. The jumps in the number of counts don't seem appropriate for the change in polling rate either. If you don't have really high fluctuations in polling rate with other mice I would RMA your mouse. If you do it is probably a problem with your system.


----------



## dwnfall

DO any mice have the easy click/ spam like these mouse switches? There is a metal spring so I can spam click all day perfect for LoL.. the shape is just off.. any ideas?


----------



## Nivity

I picked up a G303, I have no Idea why.
I bought the G302, returned it, bought the G303 returned it.

But now the mouse was on sale (Discontinued item) on both the G302 and G303.
Was 30$, (Here it have been retailed for around 80$ since its release) so thought, what the hell lol.

No interesting mice to buy atm until more 3360 comes out.

But yeah, they had 3 g303 left. all of them had sensor rattle.

But **** this, im going to the beach, to damn warm to sit infront of the computer without any AC in my apartment.
Will try it out tonight I guess


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> DO any mice have the easy click/ spam like these mouse switches? There is a metal spring so I can spam click all day perfect for LoL.. the shape is just off.. any ideas?


The Rival 700 has spammable clicks, they feel great as well. The Deathadder is always an option too for spamming clicks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I picked up a G303, I have no Idea why.
> I bought the G302, returned it, bought the G303 returned it.
> 
> But now the mouse was on sale (Discontinued item) on both the G302 and G303.
> Was 30$, (Here it have been retailed for around 80$ since its release) so thought, what the hell lol.
> 
> No interesting mice to buy atm until more 3360 comes out.
> 
> But yeah, they had 3 g303 left. all of them had sensor rattle.
> 
> But **** this, im going to the beach, to damn warm to sit infront of the computer without any AC in my apartment.
> Will try it out tonight I guess


Welcome back


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Something is definitely wrong.it looks like you aren't moving the mouse that fast then either your system or the mouse lags, gets a delayed report, and somehow shows way too many counts. You can see that you are getting huge jumps in the number of counts at the same times as drops in your polling rate. The jumps in the number of counts don't seem appropriate for the change in polling rate either. If you don't have really high fluctuations in polling rate with other mice I would RMA your mouse. If you do it is probably a problem with your system.


So it's supposed to be 1000Hz at all times, even if moving the mouse slow too? Huh I don't think any mouse I've ever had has done that, on any system I've owned. What in the system can do that?


----------



## Nivity

Well something is really wrong with my G303.
If you do a small movement/swipe left->right when you stop the cursor jumps when you stop the mouse.

Tried 4 pads, surface calibration same thing.
Does not do that on anyt other mice I have.

Bleh, I noticed the weird behaviour quite fast, something felt off when trying to do **** in windows. Like close windows etc.


----------



## Bucake

that's a loose lens.. you might not hear any rattle, but that doesn't mean the lens isn't moving.
you're gonna have to RMA, or open it up and fix it yourself.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Well something is really wrong with my G303.
> If you do a small movement/swipe left->right when you stop the cursor jumps when you stop the mouse.
> 
> Tried 4 pads, surface calibration same thing.
> Does not do that on anyt other mice I have.
> 
> Bleh, I noticed the weird behaviour quite fast, something felt off when trying to do **** in windows. Like close windows etc.


Like the previous poster said, it's a loose sensor or lens. If you have careful hands (careful as in not to mess up the adhesive material on the feet when taking it apart - or you can just buy new feet), and a few screwdrivers, all it takes is a few pieces of tape to stabilize the sensor. If you successfully take it apart, you might be surprised on how it seems so lazy of Logitech to connect "the best sensor in the market" in the manner they did.


----------



## Nivity

Okey so its the sensor/lens thats loose, I contacted Logitech, lets see if I get an answer in the years to come.
The store could give the money back since I bought the last one.

My KPM have sensor rattle as well but cursor is rock solid on that one ;O

Will wait for logitech before I open the thing I guess.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> when I use a Mouse which I claw more , I always lower my sense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and make the small movements out of my wrist ... btw I prefer a lowered Sensor position too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> but most Time I use a Palm / Claw Mix ...


I gave it a few more days and the G303 is starting to feel familiar with the clawish grip. I did a test I read which is to palm whatever mouse you're using and make small circles, then claw and make small circles noticing how much more precision you can get with claw.

What I can appreciate is the ability to go from target to target really fast with this mouse. If I snipe with Widowmaker in Overwatch for instance, this feels "fast", the G900 or Chroma I have just feel sluggish if I try them now. For CS:GO I would prefer a palm grip, but for faster paced game I think this mouse/grip is a really good option. Also doesn't make my right lower palm and right side of arm hurt like the G900 does.

I think it's a keeper, at least until ScreamOne or even lighter 3360 mouse comes out.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Something is definitely wrong.it looks like you aren't moving the mouse that fast then either your system or the mouse lags, gets a delayed report, and somehow shows way too many counts. You can see that you are getting huge jumps in the number of counts at the same times as drops in your polling rate. The jumps in the number of counts don't seem appropriate for the change in polling rate either. If you don't have really high fluctuations in polling rate with other mice I would RMA your mouse. If you do it is probably a problem with your system.


I think I solved it by closing F.lux, it seems to only happen when F.lux is open. Also Is it normal that towards the end of the mouse movement the polling rate drops? I assume so because it probably doesn't go straight from 1000Hz to zero. *Edit:* You can also set F.lux to safe mode which fixes the issue as well, it can also fix possible game stuttering if that was occurring. Recommended anyways regardless, F.lux safe mode has no real downsides.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> So it's supposed to be 1000Hz at all times, even if moving the mouse slow too? Huh I don't think any mouse I've ever had has done that, on any system I've owned. What in the system can do that?


If the mouse is showing more than 1 or 2 counts per report it should be near 1000hz if it is set to it. It is entirely reasonable to get 1x0, 0x1 etc. at <1000hz and maybe 1x1 or 2x0, but if you are getting anything higher than that something is wrong.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I think I solved it by closing F.lux, it seems to only happen when F.lux is open. Also Is it normal that towards the end of the mouse movement the polling rate drops? I assume so because it probably doesn't go straight from 1000Hz to zero.


Yes, that looks better and normal. Like I said above it is fine to get 1x0 and stuff like that at lower polling rates and that will happen at the beginning and end of swipes. What you don't want to see is something with a low polling rate and a bunch of counts in the middle of a swipe.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> If the mouse is showing more than 1 or 2 counts per report it should be near 1000hz if it is set to it. It is entirely reasonable to get 1x0, 0x1 etc. at <1000hz and maybe 1x1 or 2x0, but if you are getting anything higher than that something is wrong.
> Yes, that looks better and normal. Like I said above it is fine to get 1x0 and stuff like that at lower polling rates and that will happen at the beginning and end of swipes. What you don't want to see is something with a low polling rate and a bunch of counts in the middle of a swipe.


Alright cool. Also it turns out you can set F.lux to safe mode which also fixes the issue, just in case anyone else here has the problem and doesn't wanna give up flux.


----------



## Nivity

Returned mine for money back.
I tried doing the sensor thing with paper/tape (stuff it behing the lens). It got better but still not 100% stable cursor.

And I cant be arsed to wait for logitechs support which is even longer during holiday season.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Returned mine for money back.
> I tried doing the sensor thing with paper/tape (stuff it behing the lens). It got better but still not 100% stable cursor.
> 
> And I cant be arsed to wait for logitechs support which is even longer during holiday season.


Holiday season?? It's summer time!

Judging by what Cpate said in the logitech interview/question thread, the G303 won't be produced much longer at all. So soon then may be rare. So for those who care maybe grab an extra one, especially if you catch a sale on it lower than the current price. That is if you really like the mouse that much. He said they tried something new with the shape & it wasn't as well liked as they had hoped. Something along those lines.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Returned mine for money back.
> I tried doing the sensor thing with paper/tape (stuff it behing the lens). It got better but still not 100% stable cursor.
> 
> And I cant be arsed to wait for logitechs support which is even longer during holiday season.
> 
> 
> 
> Holiday season?? It's summer time!
> 
> Judging by what Cpate said in the logitech interview/question thread, the G303 won't be produced much longer at all. So soon then may be rare. So for those who care maybe grab an extra one, especially if you catch a sale on it lower than the current price. That is if you really like the mouse that much. He said they tried something new with the shape & it wasn't as well liked as they had hoped. Something along those lines.
Click to expand...

Hey everything can be a Holiday! Summer vacation = Holiday! hehe but yeah









I suppose so, I mean the store I bought it in had both G302 and G303 as discontinued products, hence the low price.
But hey, there might be hope for a slightly more standard curved mouse but same size, buttons, sensor, weight as G303. That would be so amazing








They have enough big mice now I feel with G402, G502, G900. Time to refresh the smaller lineup









It did feel good just to have the G303 buttons again though, those buttons are so amazing.
Doing quick scopes as Widow in overwatch was such a breeze, however the aim was horrible with cursor having its own life


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Judging by what Cpate said in the logitech interview/question thread, the G303 won't be produced much longer at all. So soon then may be rare.


The G303 is _actually_ going to stop being made?


----------



## killuchen

New model inc???


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Judging by what Cpate said in the logitech interview/question thread, the G303 won't be produced much longer at all. So soon then may be rare.
> 
> 
> 
> The G303 is _actually_ going to stop being made?
Click to expand...

Waiting for G304 or even G305 version that finally looks like the original G3-shaped version.

When that happens, I will run down my road naked only carrying a Logitech flag high above my head and when I've finished running, I shall lay down and die of a massive heart attack knowing they finally done something right with their existence







.


----------



## Melan

I hope they get the bottom part right, beside a more friendly shape for people incapable of comprehending that you don't have to use a mouse that doesn't fit. Extra plastic near teflon feet has to go. Tired of sanding it all down.


----------



## DRKreiger

I actually tried this mouse for a few days, and with quite large hands i needed something larger, more right hand geared ergonomic shape. I went with the G602. just wish i had some RGB on it.
Any way to add lighting to this thing?? would be cool even to have just blue, or red


----------



## m0uz

For the first time in forever, I actually have faith in Logitech. Come on Chrissy boy don't let us down!


----------



## drewno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> For the first time in forever, I actually have faith in Logitech. Come on Chrissy boy don't let us down!


inbefore:


----------



## chr1spe

If they are discontinuing the g303 I don't know if I should buy a spare or just hope they make a BJ-58/MX300/g1/g3/g100s shape with g303 clicks and a 3366. I'll probably just buy an extra if I can get one for under 35$ or so. I'm actually pretty torn on whether I like the g100s etc shape or the g303 shape more. If they could kind of be blended in to one shape it would be about perfect. The clicks better be like the g303 though. I don't think I can play with anything else anymore.


----------



## Bucake

i agree with the G100s vs G303, i think a mix of'em would work better than either mouse does for me.


----------



## TriviumKM

The overall shape of the g303 is fine, its just the aggressive sides that need reworking imo, as others have also pointed out before.

Make the sides more subtle and / or g900'ish like and you'll have a mouse that can comfortably be used in many variations of claw and fingertip grips rather than forcing one specific claw grip.

Edit: OR they can just release a wired mx anywhere 1/2 with the 3366 for us fingertippers


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I can understand from read explanations, why some would like the shape changed up a bit. For me personally I have no quarrels with the shape at all, my only wish is the scroll wheel be moved forward. Besides that I'm good. Even that isn't a big issue to me.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Silly lens shroud adding 0.5g. Away with you!


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Judging by what Cpate said in the logitech interview/question thread, the G303 won't be produced much longer at all.


From what quote was this plucked out? I didn't hear anything like that at all in the stream.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> From what quote was this plucked out? I didn't hear anything like that at all in the stream.


Talked about it in a thread, not on the stream.


----------



## Z Overlord

Are there any skates out there that are better than the default Logitech feet for this mouse?


----------



## Klopfer

Hotline Games ( Takasta )
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319
Competition Series are really nice


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> Hotline Games ( Takasta )
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G303-Mouse-Feet-/121794596319
> Competition Series are really nice


.6 or .28mm? How does that affect things?


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> .6 or .28mm? How does that affect things?


0.28's are used to stack on top of old ones. Buy 0.6 mm's if you want to replace the old ones completely!


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> 0.28's are used to stack on top of old ones. Buy 0.6 mm's if you want to replace the old ones completely!


*This*
and I prefer 0.6 , coz I replace the old ones or could use them to lower the LoD ( not necessary on g303 , but for example some 3320 Sensor mices or older 3090 )
btw they got a transparent plastic foil on top of the skatez to protect for , dunno dust sand ...
you need to remove it after installing the skatez


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Talked about it in a thread, not on the stream.


I'll have a peak in the thread. Thanks for clarifying!

EDIT: Still don't see where that conclusion was drawn.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I'll have a peak in the thread. Thanks for clarifying!
> 
> EDIT: Still don't see where that conclusion was drawn.


I think it was when Chris said people didn't take too well to the shape. At least they're aware that people would prefer something less angular.

Edit:

"We tried something new and different and it wasn't as well-liked as we might have hoped. That happens. As a plus, people did like the button design, so we learned at least two things."


----------



## dwnfall

Are the G900 or G502 clicks similar to the G303? The spring or whatever in the G303 makes spam clicking feel so good.


----------



## kingfoxii

not as good as the G303 but still very good.


----------



## dwnfall

If I am going to be using wired only should I just go for the G502 over the G900?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> If I am going to be using wired only should I just go for the G502 over the G900?


Depends. It really boils down to how much you care about shape and weight (and if it's worth dishing out the extra $). To be honest I'd say at least try the G502 (make sure it's returnable) and if there's something glaringly wrong w/ it (namely weight and/or shape) then go G900. Same applies to the G303.

What makes the G900 special within the 3366 lineup isn't so much the wireless, but the fact on a physical level it remedied issues users had w/ the other two offerings.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drewno*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> For the first time in forever, I actually have faith in Logitech. Come on Chrissy boy don't let us down!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> inbefore:
Click to expand...


----------



## Zhuni

In before


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Depends. It really boils down to how much you care about shape and weight (and if it's worth dishing out the extra $). To be honest I'd say at least try the G502 (make sure it's returnable) and if there's something glaringly wrong w/ it (namely weight and/or shape) then go G900. Same applies to the G303.
> 
> What makes the G900 special within the 3366 lineup isn't so much the wireless, but the fact on a physical level it remedied issues users had w/ the other two offerings.


Yes, namely the ridged undersides and the tilt heavy balance towards the right, on the G502.


----------



## reqq

just got this mouse..please Logitech never change it!


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reqq*
> 
> just got this mouse..please Logitech never change it!


They already kinda discontinued it. So if you like it you might want to stock up before its removed for good


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> They already kinda discontinued it. So if you like it you might want to stock up before its removed for good


Is it getting replaced with something similar?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Is it getting replaced with something similar?


We have no idea, most hope they take what the G303 & put it in a better shape that will be much more universal. I personally love it. I am trying to decide if i should stay with it or stay with the G900 since i picked up a brand new white pad & it would look quite nice to for my lil' set up with even less wires.

The G303 is fighting for it's spot though. Lol


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Ok, just recently my mouse isn't saving the color profile settings. I have it set to color cycle, but it seems like every time I restart my PC and sometimes when it comes out of sleep mode it will change to the default light blue color with breathing sides. It fixes itself when I go into the Logitech gaming software but it does not keep the color settings all the time anymore. It does seem to keep the dpi + polling rate however so I really don't know what's going on. I have it set to use the onboard memory, and I've tried uninstalling + reinstalling the software and it keeps doing this. Anybody else have this problem?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Ok, just recently my mouse isn't saving the color profile settings. I have it set to color cycle, but it seems like every time I restart my PC and sometimes when it comes out of sleep mode it will change to the default light blue color with breathing sides. It fixes itself when I go into the Logitech gaming software but it does not keep the color settings all the time anymore. It does seem to keep the dpi + polling rate however so I really don't know what's going on. I have it set to use the onboard memory, and I've tried uninstalling + reinstalling the software and it keeps doing this. Anybody else have this problem?


Mine has been doing this too. Are you using the most recent software because I think mine only does it with that version. I upgraded it because i use virtual surround in some games and there was a bug with lgs virtual surround and teamspeak eating processor power. I guess I could go back to a quite old version, but it doesn't really bother me. Also mine doesn't do the full breathing. The sides breath at the top is constant.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Mine has been doing this too. Are you using the most recent software because I think mine only does it with that version. I upgraded it because i use virtual surround in some games and there was a bug with lgs virtual surround and teamspeak eating processor power. I guess I could go back to a quite old version, but it doesn't really bother me. Also mine doesn't do the full breathing. The sides breath at the top is constant.


Yeah that sounds like what's happening. Oh well, I'll live with it. As long as it doesnt change my dpi/polling rate I'm fine.


----------



## Bucake

LGS









trash


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I finally got my spare G303's weight down to what I wanted. 2006 Krait's weight plus or minus 1.5 grams. Krait's pretty much useless to me now.


----------



## Bucake

i don't mind the weight, i just wish it was a bit more balanced towards the front. not that it's badly balanced, but the shape makes me grip the mouse so that the balance is off..
and i just replaced the cable with one of the G302, it's instantly a way better mouse. this is the first mouse that actually got me frustrated because of the cable. man, i felt like throwing it out my window.. in fact, i think i'm actually traumatized.

but yeah, i still think it's a shame the mouse isn't a tad rounder. and the glossy parts are also a mistake. (but gotta have cool LED windowz!!!112i)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I used a DA cable on mine.


----------



## qsxcv

razer cables best cables

maybe not most durable but who cares


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

But what about paracord? D:
OCN OCD acting up again


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> razer cables best cables
> 
> maybe not most durable but who cares


Plus they're dirt cheap, so ongoing replacements won't bankrupt anyone.


----------



## Brightmist

I didn't know they discontinued this, meh. Hopefully they'll replace it with a better shape.

My original one works as good as it's expected after 14 months. Mouse1 started to double-click, had to fix that. Mouse6 is also starting to double click on me these days, gonna have to fix that too. I also bought a spare on last BF so even if they release a triangle instead of diamond this time around, I should be good


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i don't mind the weight, i just wish it was a bit more balanced towards the front. not that it's badly balanced, but the shape makes me grip the mouse so that the balance is off..
> and i just replaced the cable with one of the G302, it's instantly a way better mouse. this is the first mouse that actually got me frustrated because of the cable. man, i felt like throwing it out my window.. in fact, i think i'm actually traumatized.
> 
> but yeah, i still think it's a shame the mouse isn't a tad rounder. and the glossy parts are also a mistake. (but gotta have cool LED windowz!!!112i)


I put the 302 cable in mine as well, fits like a glove. Patiently waiting for mx300 shape replacement.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Patiently waiting for mx300 shape replacement.


YOU and nearly 20 million other people around this planet







.


----------



## Bucake

replacement? i always presumed it was MX300 -> G100 -> G302

i'm starting to prefer the G303 over the G100s, i can imagine it helps that the G303 has better texture and nicer clicks though. never really enjoyed using the G100s all that much, something just doesn't feel right.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> replacement? i always presumed it was MX300 -> G100 -> G302
> 
> i'm starting to prefer the G303 over the G100s, i can imagine it helps that the G303 has better texture and nicer clicks though. never really enjoyed using the G100s all that much, something just doesn't feel right.


Funny you should mention that. I used to adore the G100s shape. I hadn't used it in several months and only recently swapped back to it. I don't like it anymore at all. The top feels too angled and digs into my ring finger. Funny how using so many other mice has made me hate a mouse I used to love.


----------



## Marctraider

If you are reading this Logitech:

1. Cut the crap, awkward design. Distribute the weight evenly. G303 Shape is fine other than the two bumps sticking out its sides.

2. Stop the f'n braided cords. It makes no sense on a 130+ gram mouse, let alone 87g. Figure something else out to make the mouse look
premium, without impairing performance.

3. Scrollwheel can be a bit more premium, like G502, but no plastic crap.

4a. Design a FLAT bottom. Around the sensor skate/feet should NOT be necessary. We shount have to polish the base to make it mirror flat...

4b. With a design like the G303, you want the mouse skates/feet to be as far outwards as possible to remain the highest amount of stability.

4c. You left like 2mm at each side of the mouse edges by void space. Makes zero sense to do on a mouse bottom which is less wide than the rest of the mouse.

4d. Use Round skates like hyperglides, or even better two big pads like the Zowie's use (EC2-A anyone), now THATS a stable mouse base.

4e. Make the bottom wider for stability sake.

5. Stop making sensors wobble, who cares about the best sensor in the world of it has to be glued like a kid.

6. If all this gets corrected you will retain a loyal customer.


----------



## Melan

Feet around the sensor are necessary for soft pads as it evens out surface for the sensor.

Also, large zowie feet are terrible. Round G1 feet are all you will ever need.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Also, large zowie feet are terrible. Round G1 feet are all you will ever need.


That is a highly subjective statement. They have some of the best feet on a mice I've ever used (that and the Castor). And even my statement is subjective. I can't really justify dropping $15 on Hyperglide stickers, I mean feet, on a mouse though.


----------



## Melan

15$? Hyperglides cost 5$ with delivery.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> 15$? Hyperglides cost 5$ with delivery.


I must be searching the wrong places to shop then. At least with Amazon, if you're not satisfied, 9 times out of 10 they'll send you another one or refund your money.


And here's another shot directly from the manufacturer themselves. Add the $5 shipping charge and it's still $15. Maybe if I went to eBay or something? Who knows.


----------



## Manspider

Recently bought a G303. After 2 days I couldn't handle the awkwardness of the shape anymore.

Why can't Logitech just make a mouse that isn't shaped like a transformers scrotum?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Manspider*
> 
> Why can't Logitech just make a mouse that isn't shaped like a transformers scrotum?


They can. What you have to do is search "Logitech mouse" instead of "Logitech gaming mouse". Works wonders


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> And here's another shot directly from the manufacturer themselves. Add the $5 shipping charge and it's still $15. Maybe if I went to eBay or something? Who knows.


Shipping is $1.65 and it's already included. I buy them from their worldwide store and I pay roughly 8 euros for this with shipping. Granted it's not $5 but it's nowhere 15 either.


----------



## Bucake

it's ~€8 for two sets though, right?

i don't often bother with hyperglides anymore though. i use hard pad so it's not really a problem when feet aren't smoothed out like hyperglides are. i mostly just "punch" 5mm teflon circles after i apply double-sided tape. cheapy cheapy!
sometimes i even just cut an ugly rectangle with scissors, works for me!


----------



## Melan

Yup, two sets. For me it's one since I need 6 feet for G303.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Feet around the sensor are necessary for soft pads as it evens out surface for the sensor.
> 
> Also, large zowie feet are terrible. Round G1 feet are all you will ever need.


I could potentially see the logic behind the sensor feet on cloth pad, but that totally depends on the materials used for Cloth pad.

not to mention what surface you use UNDER the mousepad itself.

I use a XTRFY Mousepad with a mirror surface beneath it, and I can tell you now that the pad is smooth as butter and totally straight, no bendings or wavyness anywhere.

Quite interesting as about all mousepads including this one are rolled up in their package, the XTRFY's come out quite nice and are easy to make straight.

As for zowie feet are terrible, I totally disagree with you but again that is totally personal preference and depends on what games you play imho.

I have two mice, one with Microsoft Explorer hyperglides (5 pieces) and the EC2-A stock's replaced with appropriate Hyperglides, and i can tell you the zowie is smoother and glides better (less friction)

Both mice are about the same weight (give or take a few grams)

Bigger feet also make less dents in the cloth pad altho with XTRFY the material barely allows any downward pressure.

The game I play requires precise tracking even at very slow speeds, so i need as much glide as i can get no matter what speed i track on.

On a side note, tanaka's ebay pads are good, and for plastic pads I doubt it matters, but on cloth the hyperglides are just so much better / less friction


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> I use a XTRFY Mousepad with a mirror surface beneath it, and I can tell you now that the pad is smooth as butter and totally straight, no bendings or wavyness anywhere.


I don't use sensor feet either. My corepad isn't soft at all for a cloth pad, so I removed sensor feet from both G303 and G402 (later just put on G1 hyperglides anyways)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> As for zowie feet are terrible, I totally disagree with you but again that is totally personal preference and depends on what games you play imho.


Zowie feet are very thin. My FK1 was gliding on plastic within a month and that's on a cloth pad. The reason why hyperglides are better, beside the glide, is their thickness thus higher life span. I used same G1 hyperglides on my FK1 for a very long time.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i'm starting to prefer the G303 over the G100s, i can imagine it helps that the G303 has better texture and nicer clicks though. never really enjoyed using the G100s all that much, something just doesn't feel right.


Bukkie, what gives







?

So you are now a 100% confirmed G303 user? Thought you had better sense than to submit to the orthopedically regressed design of a G303.

Despite some of the G100S's detraction, it's shape is still far better than any G303.


----------



## sk0g

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Bukkie, what gives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> So you are now a 100% confirmed G303 user? Thought you had better sense than to submit to the orthopedically regressed design of a G303.
> 
> Despite some of the G100S's detraction, it's shape is still far better than any G303.


I swear all you do is trash on the G303. The shape doesn't work for most people, but some people are allowed to like it, move on. I have one myself and it's about as comfortable as the G502 (which wasn't a very comfortable mouse for me,) but the lower weight, better clicks and better sensor outweigh it having a worse shape than the original Rival for me at least.


----------



## Gonzalez07

the g303 is pretty comfy for me... i hold it the same way I did the mx518 so I guess im used to it.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sk0g*
> 
> The shape doesn't work for most people, but some people are allowed to like it, move on.


You said it, MOST people don't like it simply due to the shape.

I'll give Bukkie another few weeks then see what he says, after he sees his local Orthopedist.

Now if Logitech had the foresight to put that very same sensor inside a G100S-like shell, watch all the complaints disappear. Maybe there's truth to the tale of the right shape shall inherit the gamers domain because they'll be playing for days with that perfect shape without feeling any pain whatsoever.

Remember Logitech shills are everywhere hence always highlight their fatal mistake of supporting the Carpal Killing G303 series at every opportunity







.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Bukkie, what gives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> So you are now a 100% confirmed G303 user? Thought you had better sense than to submit to the orthopedically regressed design of a G303.
> 
> Despite some of the G100S's detraction, it's shape is still far better than any G303.


i tried to resist man, but the sensor, clicks and texture are just so sweet, i'm performing great with this mouse.
with the G100s, the combination of its round-ness and how small it is is not a good combination for my hand/grip.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I still use my G303 (tho I cut my playtime to like 20% of what it used to be). I find having a proper ergonomic chair relieved most of my issues and ofc weekly visits to a chiropractor for the last 2 months.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Now if Logitech had the foresight to put that very same sensor inside a G100S-like shell, watch all the complaints disappear.


There would've been different complaints, like people being hospitalized because they were trying to make love to a mouse because it was so damn nice.


----------



## sk0g

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> You said it, MOST people don't like it simply due to the shape.
> 
> I'll give Bukkie another few weeks then see what he says, after he sees his local Orthopedist.
> 
> Now if Logitech had the foresight to put that very same sensor inside a G100S-like shell, watch all the complaints disappear. Maybe there's truth to the tale of the right shape shall inherit the gamers domain because they'll be playing for days with that perfect shape without feeling any pain whatsoever.
> 
> Remember Logitech shills are everywhere hence always highlight their fatal mistake of supporting the Carpal Killing G303 series at every opportunity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I wish there was some for of foam mod or something, make the shape a bit more bearable. Ghetto, but it might just work for my non-diamond shaped hands.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> There would've been different complaints, like people being hospitalized because they were trying to make love to a mouse because it was so damn nice.


Why does the quote say I said that







I like the g303 shape about as much as the g100s, but while there are things that could be improved on both they are 2 of the best shapes available imo.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> it's ~€8 for two sets though, right?
> 
> i don't often bother with hyperglides anymore though. i use hard pad so it's not really a problem when feet aren't smoothed out like hyperglides are. i mostly just "punch" 5mm teflon circles after i apply double-sided tape. cheapy cheapy!
> sometimes i even just cut an ugly rectangle with scissors, works for me!


Yeah, you're right. I bought into the Hyperglide hype once already and I was thinking to myself: "Somebody must've been laughing their asses off when they decided to provide white mouse feet that are of the same material as the stock feet and sell it at a ripoff premium price"


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Yeah, you're right. I bought into the Hyperglide hype once already and I was thinking to myself: "Somebody must've been laughing their asses off when they decided to provide white mouse feet that are of the same material as the stock feet and sell it at a ripoff premium price"


Quite right, so what's wrong with that?

Every Company has a right to sell something "EXCLUSIVE" to it's customers, even though there is nothing different besides the colour.

That is how Cars, Fridges, TVs, Stereos and a million other things are sold these days. Just show me the COLOUR







.


----------



## Falkentyne

There was a market for hyperglides once. At one time, replacement mouse skates were not available from anyone, unless you built them yourself, and not every person has the tools or time to build one. People on this forum sometimes think that EVERYONE should build their own stuff, just like people think everyone should mod their own custom arcade joysticks and get modified PCBS and solder and padhack everything. This is part of the good old "ego elitist" attitude you get when learning something that other people don't know.

Hyperglides were the ONLY game in town back when the Deathadder and MX518 and Diamondback and Microsoft IME 3.0 were the most common mice. Unless you could convince Razer to send you replacement feet, that was what you had to deal with. How does that make hyperglide an evil, selfish capitalistic pig abusing company? They're a company. if you were running a company you'd do the same thing.

Hyperglide feet are still high quality and well cut. The only real issue is sometimes you might get a set where the glue tape comes off the pad before it's even on the mouse, but that's rare (and you can RMA for that). But they were expensive..

Nowadays, with cheap ($$) and decent quality hotline games feet out there, that are *BETTER* than the stock feet, even if they aren't fully up to the level of hyperglides, for the price you pay, isn't that good enough? (Tiger Gaming feet are garbage Hyperglide clones that are mated to two surfaces that are not even on a firm surface (the white top gets dented, but they're "okay" for hard pads). Hotline games F4 and even performance (original) feet are the only ones people should be buying.


----------



## Pirx

i might try with some putty i bought from amazon, just to make the diamond-shaped butt rounder.

anyone who has debraided the cable? the mouse is light and the cable heavy in comparison so it pulls the mouse when you throw it around.


----------



## granitov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Tiger Gaming feet are garbage Hyperglide clones that are mated to two surfaces that are not even on a firm surface (the white top gets dented, but they're "okay" for hard pads).
> Hotline games F4 and even performance (original) feet are the only ones people should be buying.


Don't see much difference on a cloth pad once they break in. Tigers were fine to me, although Hotline seemed more well-polished.

On topic - tried the OP mouse at a store recently. It's so well-built but so poorly shaped. Preference, of course, but it's corners are even more aggressively shaped than those on Abyssus, which is already built for a pure claw grip.

Separate levers for main buttons feel almost too good; the only drawback could be more dirt collected over time. Razer and co. shells feel like a cheap piece of plastic compared to this one. Unsure if it's plain ABS with some coating and/or treatment to it or a more expensive material.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirx*
> 
> i might try with some putty i bought from amazon, just to make the diamond-shaped butt rounder.
> 
> anyone who has debraided the cable? the mouse is light and the cable heavy in comparison so it pulls the mouse when you throw it around.


I have removed the braid from the cable. There's no glue between the underlying rubber cable and the braid, so removing it works without problem. The cable that's hidden under the braid is nice. It feels soft and flexible and is still pretty thick.

I can't quite judge how much better the cable got after removing the braid. It's not a lot better, I think, but I can't really remember how it felt with the braid.


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Yeah, you're right. I bought into the Hyperglide hype once already and I was thinking to myself: "Somebody must've been laughing their asses off when they decided to provide white mouse feet that are of the same material as the stock feet and sell it at a ripoff premium price"


At some point I just bought these Teflon-"Plates"
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00C9IB1Q8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Had to clean them a bit, just put some doublesided tape on it, used a regular office-punch to basically get the same like the MX-2 Hyperglides (IIRC), bent them flat and used some sandpaper on the edges.










Much cheaper and works just fine. And got a looooot more for the money.

EDIT:

Added a picture just to show how much I could get out of one plate.


----------



## DroppedFrame

So I went ahead and got myself the g303 and then ran it thorugh the mousetester used here on OCN and got these weird results (drawing a circle):

















What is that? It looks nothing like the other charts being posted here to OCN

The mouse seems to be working fine (I even went so far as to purchase from Logitech directly, in the hopes of avoiding any models with the sensor rattle), and the issue dissapears when setting the polling rate to 125Hz.

Settings are 3000 cpi (3200 as measured by mousetester), Angle Snapping off, EPP off, Windows sensitivity at 6, and the mouse is on a cloth pad.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DroppedFrame*
> 
> So I went ahead and got myself the g303 and then ran it thorugh the mousetester used here on OCN and got these weird results (drawing a circle):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is that? It looks nothing like the other charts being posted here to OCN
> 
> The mouse seems to be working fine (I even went so far as to purchase from Logitech directly, in the hopes of avoiding any models with the sensor rattle), and the issue dissapears when setting the polling rate to 125Hz.
> 
> Settings are 3000 cpi (3200 as measured by mousetester), Angle Snapping off, EPP off, Windows sensitivity at 6, and the mouse is on a cloth pad.


I'm not sure. Nothing there looks weird to me other than that you are doing a microscopic circle I guess? If you are doing a large circle then I have no idea, but this just looks like the mouse is hardly moving. You are probably getting some delayed reports that are causing the spikes in the second graph, but according to the first graph you are only moving the mouse like 0.03 m/s.


----------



## Melan

Move mouse faster.


----------



## DroppedFrame

Ah, ok. I usually use only the wrist to move it around, so yes, the distances are pretty small. Tried doing a bigger/faster circle this time with the whole arm:



So does any of this matter then, if I don't usually move the mouse this much?


----------



## chr1spe

Usually people do this to check the polling rate which you can see in the interval vs time plot.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Twice already today my mouse has spazzed out and pointed straight to the ground. It's really irritating, anyone know of a fix? My surface tuning is on the default setting.


----------



## Gonzalez07

have you tried setting your pc to high performance in the power options?


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> have you tried setting your pc to high performance in the power options?


it is on high performance


----------



## Gonzalez07

have you updated the firmware? weird that youre experiencing this..been using it for a few weeks and haven't had that happen once. happened quite a bit with the g100s though.
maybe its an issue with the profiles? you could try following this and see if it helps http://www.overclock.net/t/1522857/how-i-debugged-the-g502-read-logitech-people


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Twice already today my mouse has spazzed out and pointed straight to the ground. It's really irritating, anyone know of a fix? My surface tuning is on the default setting.


Happened to me also, stopped happening when I changed mouse pads. I ultimately stopped using the mouse. Weird part is the G900 doesn't experience it.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Twice already today my mouse has spazzed out and pointed straight to the ground. It's really irritating, anyone know of a fix? My surface tuning is on the default setting.


What's the mousepad causing this with the G303?


----------



## crovean

i've had that happen on every mousepad i own when using anything beside default surface tuning and it even happens on default when using the puretrak talent.


----------



## Bucake

it happens for me sometimes on the Xtrfy GP3 (rough plastic pad). i haven't seen it happen on any of my other pads, but then again, i haven't done extensive testing.
i assume it's a LOD-thing and that re-calibrating fixes it, but i haven't tried it out myself. (i just switch to a different pad.)
if you have the software installed then just try the LOD thing


----------



## enthusedsock

I just picked up this mouse and have noticed a big disparity on the activation pressure between the right button and the left button. The right button is way more sensitive to activation than the left button, to the point where I am performing accidental clicks in game.

Just seeing if this is a common experience, if not then that will give me cause to return it.


----------



## Melan

Mine are identical but I also do accidental right clicks at times. If the difference is really that big, even when using left hand for mouse, go for rma.


----------



## Longasc

Update of a long-time user:

I needed some time to get used to the shape of the G302/G303 but used it extensively since November 2014. A few months later I got the G303 right away and used it since then.

Now I am back to the G302, for now...^^

~14 months use and the left button of the G303 starts acting up, double-clicks or no clicks now and then. Tried cleaning, but it seems to be a permanent problem now.

I got way more mileage out of my MX518 and G400. Those lasted for years or till even better sensors became available and they got replaced because of that.

I am disappointed!


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Mine are identical but I also do accidental right clicks at times.


same.
but i can imagine it's not that hard to get used to it


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> Update of a long-time user:
> 
> I needed some time to get used to the shape of the G302/G303 but used it extensively since November 2014. A few months later I got the G303 right away and used it since then.
> 
> Now I am back to the G302, for now...^^
> 
> ~14 months use and the left button of the G303 starts acting up, double-clicks or no clicks now and then. Tried cleaning, but it seems to be a permanent problem now.
> 
> I got way more mileage out of my MX518 and G400. Those lasted for years or till even better sensors became available and they got replaced because of that.
> 
> I am disappointed!


Sucks to hear you have had some issues, how adjusted to the shape are you after this long? How is your performance & have you had any issues with your wrists or any pain?


----------



## Huzzaa

Well, bought mine and got it today.

After some runs, most is okay except a few snippets of in-game swipes where it seemingly didnt move.

Sensor is rattling too.

Will be returning it. I'm not gonna RMA g303 to basically risk a near 100% chance of getting another rattling one. And yeah, I managed to actually move the sensor in the shell with a wooden stick. It's loose.
I have the batch with ending number 2.

In-game performance vs g502 spectrum, really good though.

Ultimately though, currently I own 2 g502's, 1 core and the other spectrum and the way they move, feels so much more different.
I like the old g502 more and am currently going to be ditching logitech as my daily driver I think because after "upgrading" to g502 spectrum, the new one. My performance has gone worse.

The original had a scroll wheel tick skipping issue that can easily be replicated on the new one as well by moving the wheel extremely slowly over ticks but it never happens in normal use, which is good.
But something is really wrong with the firmware IMO. It moves as it's supposto and has no real "issues" but the sensor is off. And I honestly think the thing has a large amount of inherent lag.

Anyways, wanted to post because... got g303 and it's going back first thing come monday.


----------



## Longasc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Sucks to hear you have had some issues, how adjusted to the shape are you after this long? How is your performance & have you had any issues with your wrists or any pain?


The shape wasn't a problem anymore after the first odd 2-3 days, so no issues here at all - also didn't have any kind of a RSI or similar stress of the mouse hand despite quite heavy gaming and everyday use. I was used to the MX518/G400 shape before. I even find it a very relaxing and comfortable mouse as it is very light and easy to control with just thumb and pinky if you want.

The buttons going defective doesn't seem to be only me, a friend of mine who bought the mouse, too, already experienced button failure 2-3 months earlier, and that after buying it some time after me. He also had the rattling sensor problem, which my mouse didn't have.

Maybe it's time for a remake with a more conservative shape, more leaning towards the G100. That the highly praise "spring-tensioned" buttons failed me quite early is a real bummer though. I am simply used to better durability from Logitech mice.

Edit: It's a very accurate mouse for pixel accuracy, but if you have really large hands, it might still be too small. You are basically covering the entire mouse with your hand and control it with thumb and pinky, which is to me somewhat surprisingly a very accurate kind of grip.


----------



## deepor

I also got problems with the clicks. I first had a bit of problems in the left mouse button, then after a while the right mouse button also started behaving weird (for example, context menus opened and then closed immediately). In my case, it had nothing to do with that "spring tensioned button" thingy the mouse has. The switches were the problem.

I opened up the mouse and put a drop of sewing machine oil / gun oil onto the switches, then clicked the plunger for a bit with the tip of a screwdriver until the drop of oil had mostly disappeared into the switch. After this, the double-clicking problems were gone. This was several months ago and the mouse still works fine.

I didn't install that firmware update that adds latency to the mouse buttons, this is still with the original firmware with the lower latency.

These double-click problems happened with both my G302 and my G303. They first appeared with my G303, then when they showed up in the right mouse button as well, I moved back to my older G302, and a few weeks later they also showed up there. I had first planned to send the G303 back for RMA, but was feeling lazy and took my time with that. While I was dragging my feet, the G302 I was using also developed the same problems. That's when I decided to try to oil the switches. It fixed the problems on both the G302 and the G303.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Well, bought mine and got it today.
> Will be returning it. I'm not gonna RMA g303 to basically risk a near 100% chance of getting another rattling one.


Where did you buy it from? I bought/returned about 5 from amazon uk all which had the rattle and felt like crap out of the box. Bought one directly from Logitech's eu website and it has zero rattle, feels much more sturdy as though it will never rattle


----------



## Huzzaa

Local retailer that ordered it from some warehouse.

Part # 910-004382
They have ones ending with 3 as well that are supposedly after digging Swiss market ones. Then again russians got it as well.

I live in Estonia so the one I got is probably from the russian market.

I haven't looked into direct purchases from Logitech. And where exactly are they doing it anyway? Usually the manufacturers only retail stuff through retailers.

Either way, I'mma head out in 30 minutes to purchase 2 new ones.

I play MMOs mainly and odd-fps as well, at a pretty high level actually, both.

I really would love to love Roccat Tyon, so I'm gonna try that one and just for the safe bet, get a Deathadder Chroma as well, even though I really dislike most of Razer....


----------



## killuchen

Any csgo players here find it hard to control your sprays sometimes? It happens at random but it's like I can't pull crosshair down lol. It's hard to explain and it only happens when I use the g303


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Any csgo players here find it hard to control your sprays sometimes? It happens at random but it's like I can't pull crosshair down lol. It's hard to explain and it only happens when I use the g303


Yep, it's called being bad at counter-strike







Hence the reason I never play it anymore. Don't have time for that shizzle

jk m8


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> Yep, it's called being bad at counter-strike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the reason I never play it anymore. Don't have time for that shizzle
> 
> jk m8


Actually i think im decent at the game lol. Smfc rank and i average 10-11 rws on esea


----------



## zaQon

I had the same problem with spray in cs go but with g502 =) It turned out lod being too low, just a little tilt of mouse and it stopped working but in intense moments I couldn't tell what was the cause. I'm happy I figured it down







LEM/Supreme eu. Logitech needs to add lift off distance to LGS.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Actually i think im decent at the game lol. Smfc rank and i average 10-11 rws on esea


"jk m8"

Also, I don't know what your counter-strike jargon means.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Any csgo players here find it hard to control your sprays sometimes? It happens at random but it's like I can't pull crosshair down lol. It's hard to explain and it only happens when I use the g303


Yea I have this too, I find setting the surface to "Logitech g240 cloth" (mousemat I'm using) fixes it but feels a bit sluggish









I'm seem to be opposite of most in that I actually really like the shape but am not too fond of the sensor/tracking :S


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wonderboysam*
> 
> Yea I have this too, I find setting the surface to "Logitech g240 cloth" (mousemat I'm using) fixes it but feels a bit sluggish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I'm the opposite of most in that I actually really like the shape but am not too fond of the sensor/tracking :S


i'll give that a try thanks







. I use the Zowie G-SR pad


----------



## wonderboysam

I kind of feel like it might be to do with having a black surface although I haven't seen anyone else suggest it

A logitech employee said on reddit:
"The most improvement is seen when you tune to a pure black or white surface."
when talking about surface tuning which makes me wonder


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/3gbt7o/does_surface_tuning_make_a_difference/


----------



## cryptos9099

I just got a G303 today from Amazon and there is no sensor rattle... I found the Diamond in the Rough. Happy camper









S/N begins: 1539
Part # ends 4380


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cryptos9099*
> 
> I just got a G303 today from Amazon and there is no sensor rattle... I found the Diamond in the Rough. Happy camper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/N begins: 1539
> Part # ends 4380


That one must have been sitting around for a while, but I've had one from the same week since November and it still hasn't developed any rattle. 1539 means it was made in the 39th week of 2015 in case anyone didn't know.


----------



## Bucake

developed? why would it _develop_ rattle?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> developed? why would it _develop_ rattle?


Some of them literally just start rattling. I've heard about it before, sucks a lot if that was to happen.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> developed? why would it _develop_ rattle?


Quite a few people have said theirs didn't rattle at first and then started rattling or that the rattle got worse over time.


----------



## granitov

Plastic doesn't last forever. Tight joints become loose. However, that would be an unlikely case with a lens (which is immobile under normal circumstances).


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

$24.99 at Best Buy. Looks like it's time for me to pick up another spare.


----------



## dwnfall

Now that is a steal. Gonna buy one even though I had one and didn't like shape.. that price is great.


----------



## zeflow

Hopefully this means they're getting rid of all the stock?


----------



## Gonzalez07

damn nice price going to pick another up too.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> $24.99 at Best Buy. Looks like it's time for me to pick up another spare.


Pick up 2. Lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dwnfall*
> 
> Now that is a steal. Gonna buy one even though I had one and didn't like shape.. that price is great.


Absolute steal.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Hopefully this means they're getting rid of all the stock?


Yep HIGHLY likely they are since logitech pulled the G303's card, looking toward the future now. The buttons are amazing hopefully they bring that back with future mice.


----------



## chr1spe

Well then I'm probably going to buy my second g303 for 25$. My first one was 25$ on black friday. Kind of ridiculous I can get 2 of these on separate occasions for less than a ton of other mice.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well then I'm probably going to buy my second g303 for 25$. My first one was 25$ on black friday. Kind of ridiculous I can get 2 of these on separate occasions for less than a ton of other mice.


Well logitech is aborting the child so i understand.


----------



## killuchen

Please give us an updated G303 logitech i beg.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Please give us an updated G303 logitech i beg.


YES with a complete new skin job, mimicking a G3







.


----------



## john88

G303 is on sale at best buy right now for $25!









Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Falkentyne

Have you ignored the last 15 posts in this thread to post something we already know?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Well then I'm probably going to buy my second g303 for 25$. My first one was 25$ on black friday. Kind of ridiculous I can get 2 of these on separate occasions for less than a ton of other mice.


My G303 is the most frequently exchanged item I've brought to Best Buy. So much that the clerk at the returns counter recognizes it and says: "We get 3-4 of this same mouse returned per week." The loss is pinned on Logitech but it tells you a lot about this specific mouse, at least in my area.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

FYI Amazon price matched the deal. I bought it from them for the free shipping, and because of a vague superstition that Amazon might have a better/newer batch than Best Buy.

edit: Doesn't look like it's in stock on Amazon anymore


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> My G303 is the most frequently exchanged item I've brought to Best Buy. So much that the clerk at the returns counter recognizes it and says: "We get 3-4 of this same mouse returned per week." The loss is pinned on Logitech but it tells you a lot about this specific mouse, at least in my area.


Its strange to me that so many people on here have problems and say everyone hates the shape, but then if you look at best buy's website the mouse has a very high rating. Hell amazon has basically the same rating. Obviously those people aren't as picky as many here on OCN, but if the shape was so bad and so many of them had huge lens rattle problems I don't see why they would be rated so highly on basically all shopping sites. I've only had 1 g303 so far, but it has no problems. I'm going to be extremely confused what all the complaints are about if my second one doesn't have any problems either.


----------



## Aymanb

How to know if the sensor rattles?


----------



## Melan

There will be clicking from inside if the lens is loose. Shake it and listen.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> FYI Amazon price matched the deal. I bought it from them for the free shipping, and because of a vague superstition that Amazon might have a better/newer batch than Best Buy.
> 
> edit: Doesn't look like it's in stock on Amazon anymore


I managed to place my order while it was $25.

Yeah I bought another G303.........


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> There will be clicking from inside if the lens is loose. Shake it and listen.


Well, you should hold the buttons down too because those can make a little noise. Also my mouse does make a slight rattle when I shake it violently, but that is from the cable. It makes the same noise if I just jiggle the cable without the mouse moving.


----------



## Melan

Well, yeah. Obviously. Most rattle I found was from CPI button tho.


----------



## Bucake

if you're not sure if the rattle comes from the lens, just use high cpi and do a swipe in Paint. if the lens is loose you'll see jiggle at the end, rather than a full stop
this was mine at 3600 before i applied some double-sided tape: http://i.imgur.com/yzX81tg.png?1


----------



## Soo8

Cheapest used G303 that ships to Lithuania is 54$. God bless the eastern block.


----------



## Bucake

they're still ~€60 here in the netherlands if you want a new one. none of them sweet $25 deals like you see in america.
most used ones i can find close-by are also still quite expensive as most people just look up what they cost new, and ask only ~€15 less. others just copy those prices i guess.
i got my used one for €30 and consider myself lucky about it. don't really use it all that much though


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> if you're not sure if the rattle comes from the lens, just use high cpi and do a swipe in Paint. if the lens is loose you'll see jiggle at the end, rather than a full stop
> this was mine at 3600 before i applied some double-sided tape: http://i.imgur.com/yzX81tg.png?1


Why are people still suggesting this. Most of the time all you are seeing is imperfections in your motion.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> Why are people still suggesting this. Most of the time all you are seeing is imperfections in your motion.


please.
did you even look at the picture?
i don't have any physical disabilities and can move my hand around just fine. all the funny jiggling you see there, i can assure you it didn't come from my hand.
maybe if you actually had one with a loose lens, you'd see what i mean.

just come on dude

edit: again 3600cpi, similar motions, similar movement speed, after applying tape: http://i.imgur.com/KGnbl46.png?1


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> if you're not sure if the rattle comes from the lens, just use high cpi and do a swipe in Paint. if the lens is loose you'll see jiggle at the end, rather than a full stop
> this was mine at 3600 before i applied some double-sided tape: http://i.imgur.com/yzX81tg.png?1





http://imgur.com/tjSp4


still not sure, this was high dpi.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> please.
> did you even look at the picture?
> i don't have any physical disabilities and can move my hand around just fine. all the funny jiggling you see there, i can assure you it didn't come from my hand.
> maybe if you actually had one with a loose lens, you'd see what i mean.
> 
> just come on dude
> 
> edit: again 3600cpi, similar motions, similar movement speed, after applying tape: http://i.imgur.com/KGnbl46.png?1


I did look at the image, but the image is nothing like what you suggested to do.

Edit: Also I still think taping something that the mouse tracks on over the sensor and shaking is a better idea.


----------



## Bucake

if you set cpi to 12000 and do a swipe, the end will show jiggle that no human hand could've produced.
and you don't exactly need to do a 10m/s swipes to see conclusive results. surely people can work out how fast they can swipe while still able to bring the mouse to a quick stop. i would've posted my swipes if i still had them, but i don't.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> maybe if you actually had one with a loose lens, you'd see what i mean.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/tjSp4
> 
> 
> still not sure, this was high dpi.


if that was anything near / above 3600cpi, then that doesn't look very loose to me.
but if you feel unsure, just do a few more tests. (there's not much else you can do, besides listening for rattle.)
fast circles, or the end of short swipes will look bad if the lens is loose.
small tip: use the Pencil tool with 1px size, it shows the output more accurately


----------



## coldc0ffee

Well Best Buy stock sold out quick....But Newegg reduced their price to 24.99 now. Got one for 30 including shipping...Just can't pass a steal like this up


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> [...]
> 
> still not sure, this was high dpi.


See if you can move the lens around when pushing on it with something like a toothpick (something that won't scratch it). It should not move at all if it's not loose.


----------



## b0z0

Just picked one up from bestbuy again. No lens rattle.


----------



## VESPA5

You're lucky! I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, but for my (3) G303s that I exchanged from Best Buy, they initially had no rattle. Something about a few swipes here and there after a few hours of gaming that somehow loosens up the adhesive to the lens. I'm not sure. It's when you notice the pointer on your screen having a noticeable post-travel or slight lag when you swipe do you realize that you have sensor rattle issues.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Something about a few swipes here and there after a few hours of gaming that somehow loosens up the adhesive to the lens.


For ALL the G303 fanatics out there, why don't you open up your mouse and re-glue the lens?

Just use some quality, polyurethane glue because it sticks to anything and resists a huge range of temps.

That would be my option if I decided to ever purchase a G303 (which I did)







.


----------



## Melan

As long as you glue it to the sensor, this solution should be fine.


----------



## coldc0ffee

I glued my first one... And I will glue my second one (if I need to).


----------



## deepor

I fixed it like this, with a bit of scotch tape:

The plastic part that has the lens in the middle has grooves that are supposed to fit into grooves in the bottom shell, and it's not a tight fit. I put tape on top of those grooves to make it tight.


----------



## tunelover

G303 is being sold for $24.99 by Best Buy and Newegg....
Maybe Logitech is in the process of refreshing their g3 series lineup


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> G303 is being sold for $24.99 by Best Buy and Newegg....
> Maybe Logitech is in the process of refreshing their g3 series lineup


We know it is, it's been said on the previous pages lol

refreshing I doubt, mainly getting rid of the g303. We'll see how long it takes, if they ever refresh it.


----------



## Diogenes5

Got this mouse because it was so cheap. The ergonomics are terrible but it's fine for short counterstrike matches. If they had used the same shape that they use on their cheap bluetooth mice, this mouse would be 1000x better but they want you to buy their more expensive mice I think. Just think if they had a g9x shape but everything else was the same. That mouse would be godly.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> We know it is, it's been said on the previous pages lol
> 
> refreshing I doubt, mainly getting rid of the g303. We'll see how long it takes, if they ever refresh it.


I very seriously doubt there isn't another similar mouse coming out very soon if they are in fact discontinuing the g303. Whether or not it is popular on this forum it is very popular in general and they don't currently really have a directly competing product. I highly doubt they are going to just let the niche the g303 is in slip though I guess it isn't particularly common with other manufacturers (small mice with top of the line sensors). The g303 may not have done as well as it could have, but from a business perspective I highly doubt it was by any means a failure or anything. Unless they are just going to do like other companies and only offer cheaper sensors in smaller mice there should be another 3366 small mouse in the works. Maybe they are just going to stick with am010 in small mice like most other brands would do in which case I'm going to be very disappointed. I don't get why small mice = cheaper sensor for so many mice.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> G303 is being sold for $24.99 by Best Buy and Newegg....
> Maybe Logitech is in the process of refreshing their g3 series lineup


Newegg raised the price back.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> I very seriously doubt there isn't another similar mouse coming out very soon if they are in fact discontinuing the g303. Whether or not it is popular on this forum it is very popular in general and they don't currently really have a directly competing product. I highly doubt they are going to just let the niche the g303 is in slip though I guess it isn't particularly common with other manufacturers (small mice with top of the line sensors). The g303 may not have done as well as it could have, but from a business perspective I highly doubt it was by any means a failure or anything. Unless they are just going to do like other companies and only offer cheaper sensors in smaller mice there should be another 3366 small mouse in the works. Maybe they are just going to stick with am010 in small mice like most other brands would do in which case I'm going to be very disappointed. I don't get why small mice = cheaper sensor for so many mice.


If they actuallt launch something as a successor i'll be happy to see it. I just don't see it for sometime really, though i could be very wrong. If they have something up the pipeline maybe it could be close since this flash sale cleaned out a lot of stock in stores.


----------



## qsxcv

just consider the fact that g302 still isn't discontinued


----------



## deanwin913

Hi,

I've a question regarding my newly bought g303, I seem to have trouble avoiding a misclick of both buttons (left and right) when I swipe the mouse and bring it down quickly/hard. Therefore, when I play cs go, I tend not to rest my middle finger on the right click but it feels a little bit uncomfortable, sometimes without realized, my middle finger will twitch a little and click the right button.

Have you guys experienced this problem? I really hope its not a faulty product because I've been waiting for this mouse for such as long time and I dun wanna send the mouse back after just one day of use.

I reckon since it is same on both sides, maybe its just how it was built? I could try and slot thin papers underneath the buttons and it did help but I l wanna confirm whether its supposed to be like that.

P.S. I can rest my fingers on the buttons without clicking them but when I lift the mouse and put it down quickly, the click happens. I used to use palm grip but now im using claw grip which im not familiar with, anyone can tell me how is a claw grip supposed to feel/look like?

Thanks!


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deanwin913*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've a question regarding my newly bought g303, I seem to have trouble avoiding a misclick of both buttons (left and right) when I swipe the mouse and bring it down quickly/hard. Therefore, when I play cs go, I tend not to rest my middle finger on the right click but it feels a little bit uncomfortable, sometimes without realized, my middle finger will twitch a little and click the right button.
> 
> Have you guys experienced this problem? I really hope its not a faulty product because I've been waiting for this mouse for such as long time and I dun wanna send the mouse back after just one day of use.
> 
> I reckon since it is same on both sides, maybe its just how it was built? I could try and slot thin papers underneath the buttons and it did help but I l wanna confirm whether its supposed to be like that.
> 
> P.S. I can rest my fingers on the buttons without clicking them but when I lift the mouse and put it down quickly, the click happens. I used to use palm grip but now im using claw grip which im not familiar with, anyone can tell me how is a claw grip supposed to feel/look like?
> 
> Thanks!


This is subjective, but in my experience, the G303 has some of the best mouse buttons I've ever used in FPS games (that along with my G900). With any mouse, it takes getting used to. The G303 is so light that you're almost tempted to swipe so hard to accidentally misfire. I ran into this problem when I switched from an EC2-A (stiff mouse clicks) to the G303. Like with everything else, give yourself time to fully feel comfortable with the mouse and the muscle memory and the way the mouse feels in your hand should settle in (as well as the misfires slowly going away).


----------



## deanwin913

Oh yea, ive only used it for a day, so i probably need time to get used to it. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## frunction

I misclick mine occasionally even though I've been using it almost a week, always right click. A related issue is also when holding the right button down, say sniping, something is just weird feeling. It's like I can't fluidly use right click to zoom. I think it's the grip that makes my hand feel locked in having the right button up or down once pressed. I suspect is may also be the springy buttons.

I keep swapping around mice, but I really like the G303 other than above. Probably just need a bit more time with it.


----------



## deanwin913

Oic! You are also new to the mouse? Thats right, that worried feeling just makes me tense up my middle finger so as to not touch the right button. But when it comes to sniping, i will still draw back a little haha. I think i need more time to adapt. N yes, the mouse is pretty springy. Btw, u are using the claw grip, right?


----------



## Aymanb

I used to always misclick with the G303 when I rest my fingers, specially when I'm shift-walking in csgo being sneaky with an m4 and it suddenly fires a bullet, completely pisses me off that they are so easy to click.. but eventually I got to be more careful, you will adapt with time.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> I keep swapping around mice, but I really like the G303 other than above. Probably just need a bit more time with it.


I'd say give it about a week or two. Even with my other mice, I tend to misclick randomly. The only mouse that I can't seem to do that with is my EC1-A. Which is probably why the Zowie mice are so popular. But my play style involve a lot of short controlled spam bursts (for me, spamming Zowie mouse buttons isn't exactly fun and hand fatigue kicks in faster). Other than that, the G303 is a pretty sweet mouse.


----------



## Jinto

Just re-purchased the G303 after previously returning it back to Amazon several weeks ago. As of this post it is currently $24.99 for Prime members so I figured why not. The reason I returned it was due to the fact the left click become noticeably looser (like a hang nail) as opposed to the right click. Initially they both felt solid and crisp and honesty were the most satisfying right and left clicks I have ever experienced. But after a few weeks the left click became less crisp and defined, it drove me nuts. No sensor rattle fortunately. Hoping this new one remains consistent with its clicks.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

I bought new one after returning one previously too, lol. Can still aim pretty well with it, but not up to my potential with the WMO. Now here I am debating whether I should return a perfect, zero rattle G303, or if I should keep it on my desk just to click these nice buttons while wishing I could use something besides an office mouse


----------



## Falkentyne

Return it and get the new upcoming Logitech mouse with an ass.

Currently the only mouse that has an ass on it is the G900 and it feels good.


----------



## TriviumKM

The lack of a butt isn't the 'problem' with the g303 imo, it's the aggressive protruding sides
Quote:


> Return it and get the new upcoming Logitech mouse...


Has a new mouse actually been confirmed?


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> The lack of a butt isn't the 'problem' with the g303 imo, it's the aggressive protruding sides
> Has a new mouse actually been confirmed?


nope , but was seen in stream







TSM vs C9


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> nope , but was seen in stream
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TSM vs C9


HMMM Who was using it? about to go look this up


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> HMMM Who was using it? about to go look this up


Just check the thread that's going on it.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> HMMM Who was using it? about to go look this up


Skadoodle, n0thing, and semphis


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Just check the thread that's going on it.


Will do
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> Skadoodle, n0thing, and semphis


Thanks


----------



## Derp

The $25 G303 I purchased from Amazon doesn't have any sensor rattle. The front and back feet are extremely thin though..... This wasn't the case with my original G303. Two weeks of use and the plastic dust guard walls around the feet will be scratching into my mouse pad. The four feet in the center are normal thickness. Figures.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> Will do
> Thanks


Actually just semphis and ska. My bad


----------



## Soo8

I've bought a used G303 today just to try the sensor again and I have a problem: I like the shape. This thing destroyed my hand half a year ago, and now, after I've been using the Castor for a solid 3 months, it's not that bad. What is wrong with me? Please help.


----------



## DroppedFrame

Some latent version of Stockholm syndrome perhaps?


----------



## Melan

Give it a week or so and you will be posting "mai wrist hurts, send hlep pls" again.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Give it a week or so and you will be posting "mai wrist hurts, send hlep pls" again.


Ive been using it a couple weeks straight and my wrist/hand are fine. Where the G303 make me hurt is the ring finger. The shape up front is so angled where my ring finger sits, causes the middle knuckle to hurt.


----------



## Melan

I have the same with ergonomic mice. Mx500 tends to hurt my ring finger if I try to grip it like an ambidextrous mouse (ring finger and pinky on the side instead of ring finger resting near rmb).


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> I've bought a used G303 today just to try the sensor again and I have a problem: I like the shape. This thing destroyed my hand half a year ago, and now, after I've been using the Castor for a solid 3 months, it's not that bad. What is wrong with me? Please help.


Give it a week or two as said above. See how the results are around that time & if you have any pain. If so, scrap the mouse.


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I have the same with ergonomic mice. Mx500 tends to hurt my ring finger if I try to grip it like an ambidextrous mouse (ring finger and pinky on the side instead of ring finger resting near rmb).


I think you're right, my ring finger naturally wants to sit pointing more forward riding the shape of the RMB, but the mouse is designed to hold with ring/pinky pointing down.

I have adjusted my grip to ambi style, but with my larger hand, the ledge angle is sharp up front. I saw some people earlier in the thread modded the right side to make the ledge less extreme, ill probably do the same if a decent 3360 doesnt come out soon.


----------



## muso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> Ive been using it a couple weeks straight and my wrist/hand are fine. Where the G303 make me hurt is the ring finger. The shape up front is so angled where my ring finger sits, causes the middle knuckle to hurt.


I get the exact same thing.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *muso*
> 
> I get the exact same thing.


The G303 is the only mouse I own that I love to use but at a physical cost. It's the only mouse I own where I can play significantly well in a multiplayer game but only for about an hour or else my hand starts to cramp. There are people on this forum who will defend this mouse's ergonomics and that's good for them. But I had this mouse at my cubicle and we had an ergonomics expert come by and look at our workstation setups (PhD and expert on handling carpal tunnel syndrome cases) and saw my G303 and immediately said that this mouse was a carpal tunnel syndrome lawsuit waiting to happen







- with that, I was told not to use that mouse in the workplace


----------



## tp4tissue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> The G303 is the only mouse I own that I love to use but at a physical cost. It's the only mouse I own where I can play significantly well in a multiplayer game but only for about an hour or else my hand starts to cramp. There are people on this forum who will defend this mouse's ergonomics and that's good for them. But I had this mouse at my cubicle and we had an ergonomics expert come by and look at our workstation setups (PhD and expert on handling carpal tunnel syndrome cases) and saw my G303 and immediately said that this mouse was a carpal tunnel syndrome lawsuit waiting to happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - with that, I was told not to use that mouse in the workplace


The G303 CAN be ok, if your control surface height is higher.. meaning your elbows rest above your ribs, close to chest height.

Because when your arm is up and out, the wrist is naturally more horizontal than vertical..

That said.. Most people's desks are not up to their chest, so it's a moot point. .hahaha..


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I think the only braided cable more stiff than the G303's was the Fnatic Flick G1's. It's as if they saturated the cord in starch before shipping it.


Don't remind me of that... thing!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I think the only braided cable more stiff than the G303's was the Fnatic Flick G1's. It's as if they saturated the cord in starch before shipping it. And the G303 is so light that you can actually feel the cable applying resistance sometimes when you flick the mouse.


Dm1 pro has the worst braided cable i have ever used. I would rather take a DDT from Jake The Snake, than to ever use a braided cable like that one ever again. The cable for the G303 isn't crappy. It's just not a good braided cable mix with the mouse to me. Unbraided i am sure it is great. Possibly the same with the DM1.


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I think the only braided cable more stiff than the G303's was the Fnatic Flick G1's. It's as if they saturated the cord in starch before shipping it. And the G303 is so light that you can actually feel the cable applying resistance sometimes when you flick the mouse.


It's not crappy. It's just... braided.


----------



## qsxcv

yea g303 cable is quite heavy. its flexibility is not an issue (for my g303 at least)


----------



## AnimalK

I have a launch g303 which I pre-ordered directly from logitech's website.

I have always had a very slight lens rattle which I have been fixing by simply applying pressure on the lens every couple of weeks.

I've gotten fed up with it so I decided to make a support ticket. Two days later I have a replacement on the way.

Logitech has the best customer support I've ever seen when It comes to computer accessories and peripherals.
Only other companies that I've experienced the same level of customer care are Bose and Apple.


----------



## Pacc

Took me about a hour and a half but I unbraided my G303's cable without damaging it. I used a little razor to pick out the threads and started slicing making sure I don't hit the cord. Its 100% worth it, mouse feels lighter and the cable isn't so stubborn and annoying.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pacc*
> 
> Its 100% worth it, mouse feels lighter and the cable isn't so stubborn and annoying.


Everyone that owns a mouse, has to de-braid their cable. Once they do, everything shall change for them because every other mouse they buy in the future will be skinned.


----------



## Falkentyne

Everyone?
I've damaged too many unbraided cables that came unbraided to 'want' to unbraid cables. One of my good deathadders stopped working because the cable got a cut in it. I'd rather have a braided cable which works than a thin, smooth, flexible unbraided cable which is damaged. Not saying I like braided cables but I have too many things to deal with to have to also worry about modding mice as well.

The only cable I would unbraid are removable cables that you can replace if the cable gets broken, so you don't get stuck with a dead mouse.


----------



## Melan

Debraided DA cord been working well for months now. Extremely light and flexible.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Debraided DA cord been working well for months now. Extremely light and flexible.


Same


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Debraiding cables is easy if you aren't Michael J Fox.

The debraided deathadder cable in my ~78g G303 is amazing.


----------



## wonderboysam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Debraiding cables is easy if you aren't Michael J Fox.


looool


----------



## daniel0731ex

Why unbraid a cable when you can just transplant the PCB-side connector to the cable of your liking?


----------



## Hyperdimension

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kermit879*
> 
> I stippled my g303 on the sides using a Sautering(sp?) iron to give it some grip, very happy with results. Excuse the probable foot particles that have gotten into the grooves but I do clean it.


What the ****? How is no one talking about this? Yooooooo. This is so freakish. Saw this yesterday, and it's been ingrained into my head ever since. *** man. I keep getting shivers all the time. ****. you've ruined me with this


----------



## Melan

Probably because it was buried under almost 200 pages and you dug it up.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

It doesn't look so nice i agree. Lol


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyperdimension*
> 
> What the ****? How is no one talking about this? Yooooooo. This is so freakish. Saw this yesterday, and it's been ingrained into my head ever since. *** man. I keep getting shivers all the time. ****. you've ruined me with this


It does look a bit like a bad rash or a mouse with an STD. But hey, if it helps the person grip it better and game better, more power to him or her!


----------



## delledonne

I don't know if it's trypophobia but that picture turns my stomach.


----------



## ncck

Looks like a fungi infection... if I saw that not knowing what it was I'd probably take out the Louisville Slugger on that S.O.B


----------



## Zhuni

Yeah that is horrible. It turns my stomach as well


----------



## Ino.

Are you the guys who are afraid of this flower?



I thought that was just a joke?


----------



## delledonne

Yep that definitely makes me feel sick. Done lurking this forum for awhile.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

lotus op pls nerf


----------



## Ukkooh

Guys if you keep posting these images please put them inside spoiler tags. Thank you.


----------



## Zhuni

Yeah that will do it Ino. I saw someone with that tattooed on shoulder.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Lol i do not like that flower no.


----------



## Jinto

Are those blueberries up in there?


----------



## Ino.

I honestly thought that was just a hoax, people are actually irritated by these pictures?

Btw: do you know the Surinam Toad?










Spoiler: Watch it, you know you want to!


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Btw: do you know the Surinam Toad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Watch it, you know you want to!


----------



## Tmfs

Got a 1611 batch 303 from best buy site during the most recent $24.99 sale which has a little rattle. Not sure what exactly it's coming from. No noticeable effect on tracking so I'm not going to worry about it until there is.


----------



## Pinp0int

I've been using G303 for a year now (I actually have two) and while it's technically a fantastic mouse, I've grown to dislike its shape and weight. Like many of us here, I've been impatiently waiting for Scream One to release.

Yesterday I bought a G100s from a local sale for 13eur/14usd. For a such a price I'd be stupid not to give it a try. My first impressions were great - this mouse is pretty much the size of G303 but the shape being a lot better. I could instantly get a good grip of the mouse. It also feels a lot lighter. The M1/M2 buttons don't click as nicely as those of G303's, but they are decent.

First weakness I notice is that the middle mouse skate around the sensor is not really gliding well on my Razer Goliathus Control mat, as it seems to be made of some hard plastic material unlike the other two. Not really thinking much about it, I put an extra pair of the G303's Hotline Gaming Competitive mouse skates on top of the standard skates. They're not the exact shape but close enough. Now it glides well and the LOD is lowered. Problem solved.

First thing I notice when I open up CSGO and go in game is that the sensor feels much snappier in comparison to g303, but that could be be caused by the shape. I'm running the default and maximum refresh rate of 500hz with 1000 dpi. I'm thinking there must be at least some negative acceleration in the sensor, but there is none. It feels perfect and 'raw', not worse than any 3366/3310 implementation I've tried.

With a single day with the mouse, I prefer it over G303. You might as well


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pinp0int*
> 
> the sensor feels much snappier in comparison to g303


Hurry up dude, hop in.


----------



## Pinp0int

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Hurry up dude, hop in.


dafuq?


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pinp0int*
> 
> the sensor feels much snappier in comparison to g303, but that could be be caused by the shape.


I know where you're coming from. When I got my first G100s, I plugged it in and I immediately noticed that the cursor movement felt smooth and just nice in comparison to everything else I'd tried. It didn't feel any more responsive than any other mouse, it just felt really nice and I have a feeling it was because I was really comfortable with the shape.

Then the G303 came along and made me uncomfortable with the G100s. However, I've started using the G100s again and I'm back to loving it and can't stand the G303 now. That's how much the G303 altered my grip


----------



## Melan

My G303 started randomly spazz out and lose tracking recently. After short examination of my corepad I figured out that 3366 doesn't like filthy mouse pads. Grey spots of skin particles and sweat make 3366 go nuts.


----------



## Trippy

Is it best to uninstall the Logitech Gaming Software after you have all your mouse settings set. I have left it installed since I got the mouse last year and I'm just wondering what everyone else does. I always use to uninstall Razer Synapse when I used a Deathadder so I'm wondering if maybe this driver is similar?


----------



## tp4tissue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> Is it best to uninstall the Logitech Gaming Software after you have all your mouse settings set. I have left it installed since I got the mouse last year and I'm just wondering what everyone else does. I always use to uninstall Razer Synapse when I used a Deathadder so I'm wondering if maybe this driver is similar?


There were issues with the surface calibration in-mouse settings not working..

I'm not sure if they fixed this yet.. ?

Also, has there been tests of latency with/without the software installed ? I can't imagine it taking up that many CPU cycles.. it's designed to be transparent..


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tp4tissue*
> 
> There were issues with the surface calibration in-mouse settings not working..
> 
> I'm not sure if they fixed this yet.. ?
> 
> Also, has there been tests of latency with/without the software installed ? I can't imagine it taking up that many CPU cycles.. it's designed to be transparent..


It's all fine, the surface calibration was fixed a long time ago. If I ever use the G303 I won't go without it personally so I used it long enough to say that...

Input lag is no problem if you don't have something old like an MX518 alongside the LGS or so. The more recent models are okay.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> Is it best to uninstall the Logitech Gaming Software after you have all your mouse settings set. I have left it installed since I got the mouse last year and I'm just wondering what everyone else does. I always use to uninstall Razer Synapse when I used a Deathadder so I'm wondering if maybe this driver is similar?


You only need the software if you want that feature where the settings automatically change depending on the game you are playing.

Other than that, the mouse itself seems to do all of the work. It can even play keyboard macros you've programmed onto a button without the software. This means you don't really need the software after you've configured the mouse, and can uninstall it.


----------



## Melan

For some reason, my CPI on 400 step is around 435 now. It used to be around 420 when I sanded down the base. God damn magic.


----------



## Trippy

Ya, I understand that. My question was more along the line of does having the program open/installed add smoothing or anything like that?


----------



## qsxcv

no


----------



## Aymanb

Anybody knows when/how logitech stops selling/production of mice after new ones are released? G303 is so far one of my favourite so I know when to start buying backups if necessary.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Anybody knows when/how logitech stops selling/production of mice after new ones are released? G303 is so far one of my favourite so I know when to start buying backups if necessary.


USA? If you have any other mice I wouldn't mind a trade for my G303.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> Anybody knows when/how logitech stops selling/production of mice after new ones are released? G303 is so far one of my favourite so I know when to start buying backups if necessary.


Might as well start buying & get it out the way now.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I've been seeing Best Buy's restocking it. So it should be easy to get.


----------



## biochem

hi!

As I am getting a little bit into overwatch (rank 63 right now) I would like to get something new mice wise. I have been using a WMO for ages - but sometimes I get the feeling of getting something new. It is not necessary i believe .. I guess you know that feeling.

So a g303 came into my mind (after some research those are the candidates :g303, FK2) . I am a left handed user (with the typical right hand button placement - left click on left etc.)
I know the side buttons are unusable for me - dont need those anyway.

Would you guys still recommend the g303? Or should I look for something else? Fk2 maybe..


----------



## czerro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biochem*
> 
> hi!
> 
> As I am getting a little bit into overwatch (rank 63 right now) I would like to get something new mice wise. I have been using a WMO for ages - but sometimes I get the feeling of getting something new. It is not necessary i believe .. I guess you know that feeling.
> 
> So a g303 came into my mind (after some research those are the candidates :g303, FK2) . I am a left handed user (with the typical right hand button placement - left click on left etc.)
> I know the side buttons are unusable for me - dont need those anyway.
> 
> Would you guys still recommend the g303? Or should I look for something else? Fk2 maybe..


Your scenario is very unique. I would say you often have to 'do with' bad shapes, as a lefty. g303 is a bad ambi in my opinion. You seem to be doing fine with your current setup. There are a bunch of companies releasing sensei style shapes suddenly. Shells must be rolling around for cents on cents. It's a good shell. Wait for the dust to settle.

If these sensei clones don't match up, go in on the FK2.

Logitech is very good in the sensor department..they are very bad in the ergonomics department.


----------



## biochem

Thanks for your comment.
Yea someday I just stopped looking for a new mouse cause of shape issues. I was rolling pretty good with my WMO.
Some days ago I went to a store and grabbed the g303 .. shape wise it was ok. Its impossible to give a "this will work" statement after one minute.
I read a lot about the g303 being uncomfortable after a couple of time so that might be a problem ..
Although I am a little bit into the sensor and the buttons on the g303.

What "sensei style" mice do you mean?


----------



## czerro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biochem*
> 
> Thanks for your comment.
> Yea someday I just stopped looking for a new mouse cause of shape issues. I was rolling pretty good with my WMO.
> Some days ago I went to a store and grabbed the g303 .. shape wise it was ok. Its impossible to give a "this will work" statement after one minute.
> I read a lot about the g303 being uncomfortable after a couple of time so that might be a problem ..
> Although I am a little bit into the sensor and the buttons on the g303.
> 
> What "sensei style" mice do you mean?


Steelseries Sensei. Really good ambi shell crippled by a laser sensor and poor implementation. Nixeus/Finalmouse/DreamMachine are suddenly coming into this vacuum. The sensei shell has been repurposed tons of times from cheap knock-off companies. These aren't knock-offs, they are new ambi's with a new sensor, in sensei molds.

Nixeus Revel
DM Pro S
Finalmouse Scream (don't consider this one)

Edit: I think Cougar has an ambi in the same vein...

A g303 is like holding a polygon incorrectly and the sensor placement is weird. It's uncomfortable all around.


----------



## gunit2004

Is there a certain DPI you should not go above with the G303 and 3366 sensor or is it pretty much the same all the way up till 12,000 DPI?


----------



## zzuper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Is there a certain DPI you should not go above with the G303 and 3366 sensor or is it pretty much the same all the way up till 12,000 DPI?


All steps are native as far as we know.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Is there a certain DPI you should not go above with the G303 and 3366 sensor or is it pretty much the same all the way up till 12,000 DPI?


Other than jitter there is no problem with any dpi setting that has been shown by anyone so far I'm pretty sure. The new 3360 which is the public version of the 3366 has more smoothing above 2000 dpi, but logitech's version in the g303 does not have that.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

*Well~* depending on the firmware for the G303. Which turns out you *CAN* reflash/downgrade. I'd say how to but I have this feeling I'd regret it once the first "mouse no work now fix pls help" happens.

However, it's something I accidentally did. But it *was* a previously posted method on these forums. Only I did the last step incorrectly and put the mouse into bootloader mode. Just have a second mouse ready and you should be good. You will also have to use older software to avoid the stupid "you can't use this mouse until you update the firmware" bs. It's super easy once you figure it out.

G303Update v24 aka 95.1.24.0 is the one you are looking for.


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> *Well~* depending on the firmware for the G303. Which turns out you *CAN* reflash/downgrade. I'd say how to but I have this feeling I'd regret it once the first "mouse no work now fix pls help" happens.
> 
> However, it's something I accidentally did. But it *was* a previously posted method on these forums. Only I did the last step incorrectly and put the mouse into bootloader mode. Just have a second mouse ready and you should be good. You will also have to use older software to avoid the stupid "you can't use this mouse until you update the firmware" bs. It's super easy once you figure it out.
> 
> G303Update v24 aka 95.1.24.0 is the one you are looking for.


True, you can reflash different firmwares. Not sure what that post was about or if it was even mine or I forgot to post it, but that's how I did it the last time.

You can just open the firmwareupdate tool with Resource Hacker for example and swap out the firmware-files.
I actually can't remember if I changed the version-string in the firmware-file or not.

Edit:
Also you actually don't even need to install the different LGS-Version. Just extract the installer with 7-Zip then

Code:



Code:


$_OUTDIR\1-LGS-x64\Setup\$_OUTDIR\FWUpdate\G303\G303Update_v24\.rsrc\FIRMWARE

for example.

The firmware above mentioned is available in the LGS_8.70.315 for example


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> cool stuff


Hahaha oh wow. I thought of that but I didn't think they would be dumb enough to make it that easy. Nice work.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Is there a certain DPI you should not go above with the G303 and 3366 sensor or is it pretty much the same all the way up till 12,000 DPI?


Smoothing (amount of milliseconds) increases beyond 1550 or 1600 dpi if I recall.


----------



## qsxcv

that's for 3988

3366 doesn't care about dpi


----------



## Bucake

@uaokkkkkkkk
@c0dy

thanks a lot for sharing guys. all i did was extract the v24 firmware and put it into the v26 installer. running it downgraded the firmware successfully. didn't even need LGS.

apparently this firmware version has minor issues with lighting?
when i (re)boot / plug in the mouse, the LEDs first starts some default pattern (breathing + color rotation) before switching to my set preference. and the color is off from what i set, too.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @uaokkkkkkkk
> @c0dy
> 
> thanks a lot for sharing guys. all i did was extract the v24 firmware and put it into the v26 installer. running it downgraded the firmware successfully. didn't even need LGS.
> 
> apparently this firmware version has minor issues with lighting?
> when i (re)boot / plug in the mouse, the LEDs first starts some default pattern (breathing + color rotation) before switching to my set preference. and the color is off from what i set, too.


Hit the gear thing to get to settings in LGS, click the g303 tab, uncheck "enable startup effect when connecting the device". That should turn off the color rotation thing on startup.


----------



## Melan

Flashed v24 firmware. LGS told me to update again... and it used v26 firmware file with v24 innards. Le sigh.


----------



## xSociety

Has anybody here un-sleeved their cable? I was wondering what the best way to go about it is? I don't want to damage the cable obviously.


----------



## qsxcv

i haven't do it for the g303 specifically, but something like these: https://www.amazon.com/Vetmed-USA-132-391-Scissors-Straight/dp/B00BTKUGKO/ (look around; this particular one has some negative reviews apparently)
would probable be ideal.

you'll want to start by breaking a ring of the braiding near the ferrite bead. then slide the braiding down towards the mouse so that it's more loose, and start cutting. and it will probably get messy with little fibers getting everywhere, so prepare for that beforehand


----------



## frunction

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Has anybody here un-sleeved their cable? I was wondering what the best way to go about it is? I don't want to damage the cable obviously.


I did it with an exacto knife, just be careful starting the cut. It's easy but very time consuming and messy. If I had it to do over again I would have just bought replacement cable.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Has anybody here un-sleeved their cable? I was wondering what the best way to go about it is? I don't want to damage the cable obviously.


After the first cut, I unraveled the rest of the braid by scratching on it with a fine comb. I unraveled two or three inches or so with the comb before cutting that unraveled part off, then repeated. It took a pretty long time to go through the whole cable, but that method meant that only the very first cut was done on top of the actual cable. The rest of the cuts, I could do away from the cable.


----------



## qsxcv

actually the fastest way is to cut off the usb plug+ferrite bead, break the braiding near the mouse, slide it off, then solder to a new usb plug.


----------



## daniel0731ex

Why do you want to unbraid the whole thing when it's only the section near the mouse that interferes with your motion?


----------



## xSociety

Thanks for the help guys!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frunction*
> 
> I did it with an exacto knife, just be careful starting the cut. It's easy but very time consuming and messy. If I had it to do over again I would have just bought replacement cable.


Where can I buy a replacement cable?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Thanks for the help guys!
> Where can I buy a replacement cable?


Hit up Ceesa, great cables.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1NwKa8J-4IFjwrnMHCNbm-iYIUsfxX1Jma20VMZca9jg/viewform?c=0&w=1


----------



## victorrz

Why are you downgrading the firmware? I have 95.2.26 version. What's the difference between this version and v24?
Thanks


----------



## Melan

V26 has 2 frames of smoothing on all steps.
V24 has no smoothing at all.
No difference really, performance is the same, though I downgraded because reasons.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> V26 has 2 frames of smoothing on all steps.
> V24 has no smoothing at all.


You sure about this? Or did I miss something important in this thread?


----------



## Melan

You missed something important in 3366/3360 thread.
Qsxcv something something 0x07 something smoothing. Can't provide a link coz I'm on a phone.


----------



## Bucake

(srom) 8 has no smoothing, but 7 and 9 have two frames of it.

edit: removed incorrect information


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

No. That only applies to the G402 and G502. G302 and G303 were always +5ms.


----------



## qsxcv

not completely sure about this, but i recall srom8 has less jitter at 12000dpi (i.e. cursor movement when mouse is stationary) than srom9. maybe due to deadzone differences?

anyway, 2 frames should never be a reason to downgrade firmware.


----------



## Buckmoney

I know this mouse is not supposed to have acceleration being it has the 3360 sensor in it. I have had my mouse for over two months now and have been playing competitive Overwatch and just all around desktop usage with the mouse. I have always had a problem with this mouse as far as accuracy is concerned. My sensor has never rattled. I have always noticed that I am always going way over when trying to click on something and have to readjust. It's hard to consistently stay on targets in Overwatch. It's very noticeable and I have actually just recently switched back over to my SS Sensei because of it. I know its a laser and it has negative accel but I find I just consistently aim better with the Sensei. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckmoney*
> 
> I know this mouse is not supposed to have acceleration being it has the 3360 sensor in it. I have had my mouse for over two months now and have been playing competitive Overwatch and just all around desktop usage with the mouse. I have always had a problem with this mouse as far as accuracy is concerned. My sensor has never rattled. I have always noticed that I am always going way over when trying to click on something and have to readjust. It's hard to consistently stay on targets in Overwatch. It's very noticeable and I have actually just recently switched back over to my SS Sensei because of it. I know its a laser and it has negative accel but I find I just consistently aim better with the Sensei. Anyone else experiencing this?


My guess as to why you're over-aiming with the g303 is the weight difference. You might just prefer heavier mouse or you never got used to the lighter g303, causing your arm to move it more because you were so used to your mouse being heavier.

Try lowering your dpi (or in-game sens) with the g303 a bit and see if that helps.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> My guess as to why you're over-aiming with the g303 is the weight difference. You might just prefer heavier mouse or you never got used to the lighter g303, causing your arm to move it more because you were so used to your mouse being heavier.
> 
> Try lowering your dpi (or in-game sens) with the g303 a bit and see if that helps.


Was literally gonna write the same thing. Fully agree.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckmoney*
> 
> I know this mouse is not supposed to have acceleration being it has the 3360 sensor in it. I have had my mouse for over two months now and have been playing competitive Overwatch and just all around desktop usage with the mouse. I have always had a problem with this mouse as far as accuracy is concerned. My sensor has never rattled. I have always noticed that I am always going way over when trying to click on something and have to readjust. It's hard to consistently stay on targets in Overwatch. It's very noticeable and I have actually just recently switched back over to my SS Sensei because of it. I know its a laser and it has negative accel but I find I just consistently aim better with the Sensei. Anyone else experiencing this?


How long have you used the Sensei prior to picking up the 303?


----------



## Buckmoney

I had it for about 6 months. I have always been a fingertip user using smaller mouse. My all time favorite was the Razer Salmosa.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckmoney*
> 
> I had it for about 6 months. I have always been a fingertip user using smaller mouse. My all time favorite was the Razer Salmosa.


Have you measured the actual DPI of both mice. It sounds to me like they just have miss-matched DPI even if you set them to the same thing and you are having trouble adjusting.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckmoney*
> 
> I know this mouse is not supposed to have acceleration being it has the 3360 sensor in it. I have had my mouse for over two months now and have been playing competitive Overwatch and just all around desktop usage with the mouse. I have always had a problem with this mouse as far as accuracy is concerned. My sensor has never rattled. I have always noticed that I am always going way over when trying to click on something and have to readjust. It's hard to consistently stay on targets in Overwatch. It's very noticeable and I have actually just recently switched back over to my SS Sensei because of it. I know its a laser and it has negative accel but I find I just consistently aim better with the Sensei. Anyone else experiencing this?


just curious what dpi are you using? 800 dpi felt bad on the g303 not really sure why..400 and 1600 felt really good though, no complaints.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> just curious what dpi are you using? 800 dpi felt bad on the g303 not really sure why..400 and 1600 felt really good though, no complaints.


I thought the 800 dpi was just fine. It's pretty snappy like the G502's and G900's (same sensor, I know). It isn't the snappiest mouse I've ever used. The sensor on my DeathAdder Chroma still feels a tad snappier @ 800 dpi than my G303 and G900 (despite having the "best sensor in the market" label)


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I thought the 800 dpi was just fine. It's pretty snappy like the G502's and G900's (same sensor, I know). It isn't the snappiest mouse I've ever used. The sensor on my DeathAdder Chroma still feels a tad snappier @ 800 dpi than my G303 and G900 (despite having the "best sensor in the market" label)


Same here. The DA is still to this day the most snappy i have used, no clue why. It just feels like it responds extremely quickly.


----------



## biochem

Hi!

Just got myself a G303 ... plugged it in an the logitech Software is asking for an Firmware update. Any way to skip this one?
Someone posted that the new Firmware is adding delays + smoothing. Advice?


----------



## Melan

It doesn't add any delays. Just update it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I never actually got to play around with the mouse without v24 firmware on it


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biochem*
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Just got myself a G303 ... plugged it in an the logitech Software is asking for an Firmware update. Any way to skip this one?
> Someone posted that the new Firmware is adding delays + smoothing. Advice?


I recently updated my G303's firmware to v26, thinking that it would be better. After reading that it reportedly added "smoothing", I read this thread to see how to revert back to v24. I luckily had the older LGS and v24 firmware on another PC, so I used Resource Hacker to "replace" v26's firmware with the extracted v24 firmware file "2000" from folder "9", and it reverted without a problem...
The new LGS software will tell you that it cannot manipulate settings until you update firmware, so you should make changes before reverting, as it saved mine.

I would upload the .exe, but OCN won't let me, so I could email it to you if needed, but it was relatively simple if you have the software.


----------



## Melan

Or you could just use V26 because 2 frames of that "smoothing" is only visible on mouse tester.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

i'd lol if the updater would let me pass go and collect a broken mouse if i switched out the file for the g502 one and it didn't bother to check


----------



## Melan

I dare you to try it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Nothing happened as expected.









It'll just say the update failed and the mouse will work again.


----------



## Melan

Damn.


----------



## biochem

Why would they add smoothing afterwards? Dont get it.

Another question: the wire is quite stiff. Someone here in the forum sells a replacement.
Anyone done that with his own g303? Do i have to buy new mouse feet after the replacement or just reuse them? Unbraiding would ne another options - but is seems to be quite a lot of work?


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Or you could just use V26 because 2 frames of that "smoothing" is only visible on mouse tester.


I don't doubt what you're saying, as I never noticed it, but it bothered me after reading this thread, meaning it was psychological; I was fine if I could not revert back anyway...

More importantly, is this considered false advertisement?
"For maximum responsiveness, the PMW3366 sensor has zero smoothing or filtering across the entire DPI range-even at high sensitivity."
http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I don't doubt what you're saying, as I never noticed it, but it bothered me after reading this thread, meaning it was psychological; I was fine if I could not revert back anyway...
> 
> More importantly, is this considered false advertisement?
> "For maximum responsiveness, the PMW3366 sensor has zero smoothing or filtering across the entire DPI range-even at high sensitivity."
> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303


I think you're taking this in a little too much.


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biochem*
> 
> Why would they add smoothing afterwards? Dont get it.
> 
> Another question: the wire is quite stiff. Someone here in the forum sells a replacement.
> Anyone done that with his own g303? Do i have to buy new mouse feet after the replacement or just reuse them? Unbraiding would ne another options - but is seems to be quite a lot of work?


Actually the cable is quite flexible after unbraiding. But still thick and heavy compared to other unbraided cables. If you're careful you can reuse the feet, but most people destroy them while taking them off. If you're looking for a replacement cable @CeeSA is the man to talk to. But still I'd recommend you to unbraid the cable first and see if it solves your problem.


----------



## c0dy

I used my parachord-cable on my G303. And the G303 is actually the first mouse where I could reuse the stockfeet after taking them off.

Probably because of these gaps at the feet.

In case you want to remove them to open up the mouse, you only have to remove the top and bottom one.

Two screws at the top and one at the bottom


----------



## Marctraider

Highly recommend Razer Orochi mouse cable, debraided its ultra thin, feels 100% wireless LOL

At least, its the smallest mouse cord ive seen.


----------



## biochem

Thank you for all the input!

It looks like I should start with unbraiding the cable. If it will still bug me .. get one another one.
I guess the mouse loses some weight after this procedure - do you feel that difference or is it simply something you only can weight but not feel?


----------



## iARDAs

Just got this Mice... I had an issue with g502 with random double clicking at times...

I love the 303 more over the 502... It is lighter and I figured out I love lighter mice.

Really great mice. All the buttons I need are there.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> I don't doubt what you're saying, as I never noticed it, but it bothered me after reading this thread, meaning it was psychological; I was fine if I could not revert back anyway...
> 
> More importantly, is this considered false advertisement?
> "For maximum responsiveness, the PMW3366 sensor has zero smoothing or filtering across the entire DPI range-even at high sensitivity."
> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/gaming-mouse-g303


Oh it had zero smoothing. But mouse was acting up by spinning out, so they put sub millisecond of smoothing to prevent it. Idk if it works because my 303 never spin out and frankly I believe it's just a case of filthy mouse pad. You wouldn't even know that smoothing is there if qsxcv didn't tell us.


----------



## Bucake

what made you think that smoothing and that bug are connected at all


----------



## Melan

I never said they are connected. But the fact that some people complain about it spinning out back when V24 firmware was used, and then suddenly V26 has smoothing makes me guess that it's related.

As I already said, I think it's just a case of filthy mouse pad, as people don't really wash them anyways. My 303 can't track on patches of skin/sweat after 2-3 months.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Oh it had zero smoothing. But mouse was acting up by spinning out, *so* they put sub millisecond of smoothing to prevent it.


----------



## Melan

You have a better idea why it acts up?


----------



## Bucake

yeah i think it's your fault


----------



## Melan

Well, kind of. Logitech gave me the only flawless 303 in existence. Failed samples were sold to commoners for obscene price.


----------



## qsxcv

smoothing doesn't affect the spin-out.

but the srom update affected both apparently.

and srom7 (what g502 had before the spinout fix) also had 2 frames


----------



## Melan

But did G502 spin out? Because I remember only G303 having this issue.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> But did G502 spin out? Because I remember only G303 having this issue.


My G502 would spin out with surface tuning early on.


----------



## Melan

Ah. I forgot surface tuning was a thing on 3366 lol. Never used it.


----------



## VESPA5

I've tried the surface tuning for my G900 and I would say that there's a significant difference between the stock calibration vs. calibrating it to your desired surface (in my case, Goliathus Speed Mat). It made my G900 feel a lot 'snappier'. Could it be added smoothing? Who knows


----------



## iARDAs

I believe this is the best mouse I have ever used. SOOOO much better than my g502. Man I love it.


----------



## reqq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I believe this is the best mouse I have ever used. SOOOO much better than my g502. Man I love it.


Yes i love the buttons and the sensor. What a pity they discontinue it. I hope the new one will have same button feel..buttons that are seperated from the shell.


----------



## biochem

Same for me - got this mouse for 3 days now. Love it! I use it with my left hand.. no problems at all.
How you know the G303 ist being discontinued?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biochem*
> 
> Same for me - got this mouse for 3 days now. Love it! I use it with my left hand.. no problems at all.
> How you know the G303 ist being discontinued?


It was talked about in other threads & hinted by a logitech rep. Plus the random price drop to under $30 not too long ago. Every best buy is pretty much outta stock now.


----------



## iARDAs

If it is being discontinued than I am pretty sure there is a better one coming.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> If it is being discontinued than I am pretty sure there is a better one coming.


We are waiting the announcement for the G200.


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> We are waiting the announcement for the G200.


*Not patiently*


----------



## Buckmoney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Was literally gonna write the same thing. Fully agree.
> How long have you used the Sensei prior to picking up the 303?


No matter what I do I have a problem aiming with this mouse. Don't know what it is.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Oh it had zero smoothing. But mouse was acting up by spinning out, so they put sub millisecond of smoothing to prevent it. Idk if it works because my 303 never spin out and frankly I believe it's just a case of filthy mouse pad. You wouldn't even know that smoothing is there if qsxcv didn't tell us.


Mine never exhibited the spinning bug either, and I used it with v24 firmware.


----------



## Natskyge

Any hyperglides that fit on it? If yes how do i go about getting em on?


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Ah. I forgot surface tuning was a thing on 3366 lol. Never used it.


It's actually Logitech's 'way' to approach Lift-off distance. Frankly it works subpar. I hear from all corners, including my own that it screws up with tracking, so its not even working properly.

The default Logitech cloth/hard/default profiles actually work decently. They are in fact just different LoD settings.

The zowie's have the same functionality, plug it in with mouse button combo and it will set a specific lift off distance. (Different sensor)


----------



## Buckmoney

Quote:


> 1. open paint, use the pencil tool
> 2. set the dpi to 12000
> 3. put a piece of tape over the sensor hole. Make sure the tape's surface is trackable by tapping it lightly. At 12000dpi, the cursor should jump quite a bit.
> 4. lift up the mouse, click to use the pencil tool of paint, and shake the mouse midair


So I just did this step by step and I got this in MSPaint. It looks like my sensor has rattle. Does it?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> It's actually Logitech's 'way' to approach Lift-off distance. Frankly it works subpar. I hear from all corners, including my own that it screws up with tracking, so its not even working properly.
> 
> The default Logitech cloth/hard/default profiles actually work decently. They are in fact just different LoD settings.
> 
> The zowie's have the same functionality, plug it in with mouse button combo and it will set a specific lift off distance. (Different sensor)


Yep default works best for me with logitech

Zowie's LOD adjustment seems to work better/similar - logitechs would make me lose tracking entirely on some surfaces.. so I recommend default setting!


----------



## iARDAs

This mice with a cable holder is like the lightest wireless mouse with the best sensor ever.


----------



## Buckmoney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckmoney*
> 
> So I just did this step by step and I got this in MSPaint. It looks like my sensor has rattle. Does it?


Anyone?


----------



## Bucake

yup


----------



## Buckmoney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> yup


Crap. that explains a lot. Like why I can't whip my mouse and be accurate on the end result. Guess I need a new mouse and am clueless on what to get.


----------



## Bucake

by that you mean that you will return it?
because if not, it's not very complicated to fix it, the only downsides are that it voids warranty, and most likely will deform or damage the mouse feet.

if you like the shape, you might be comfortable with the G100s.
but there's also a new logitech mouse pending to be announced, you could wait for that i suppose.


----------



## Buckmoney

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> by that you mean that you will return it?
> because if not, it's not very complicated to fix it, the only downsides are that it voids warranty, and most likely will deform or damage the mouse feet.
> 
> if you like the shape, you might be comfortable with the G100s.
> but there's also a new logitech mouse pending to be announced, you could wait for that i suppose.


Can't return it. I have had for about 3 months now. The sensor has always felt off to me. I have seen many times where people say it is one of the best sensors on the market which I don't doubt. Previously in this thread I asked if anyone had problems with it. I have always been unable to accurately stay on someone while shooting in Overwatch or unable to quickly snap over to what I'm trying to hit.


----------



## crovean

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> Any hyperglides that fit on it? If yes how do i go about getting em on?


just replaced my cable and this is what i went with: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpTlC1-UEAEta-c.jpg:large
hotline instead of hyperglides because i only wanted did this to have a feel of the 3366 again.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crovean*
> 
> just replaced my cable and this is what i went with: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpTlC1-UEAEta-c.jpg:large
> hotline instead of hyperglides because i only wanted did this to have a feel of the 3366 again.


Damn dude, thats like 1cm thick cable it looks like lol


----------



## crovean

it's paracord which makes the cable extremely lightweight and flexible.


----------



## biochem

Just unbraided the cable of my G303 .. now I love it even more!








Took me like 10min max. It is easier once you start on one point


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @uaokkkkkkkk
> @c0dy
> 
> thanks a lot for sharing guys. all i did was extract the v24 firmware and put it into the v26 installer. running it downgraded the firmware successfully. didn't even need LGS.
> 
> apparently this firmware version has minor issues with lighting?
> when i (re)boot / plug in the mouse, the LEDs first starts some default pattern (breathing + color rotation) before switching to my set preference. and the color is off from what i set, too.


Cool, I did something similar and also load the v24 firmware and can still use the Logitech Gaming Software. Kept my settings anyway, and doesn't ask me to update or force an update either. Gonna test it now >: )


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buckmoney*
> 
> Crap. that explains a lot. Like why I can't whip my mouse and be accurate on the end result. Guess I need a new mouse and am clueless on what to get.


Just rip a tiny piece of a sponge off and shove it between the sensor lens (the flat piece) and the edge of the housing. that should fix things up for you.
Give that a try before you throw in the towel. it worked well for me.


----------



## whiteweazel21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Just rip a tiny piece of a sponge off and shove it between the sensor lens (the flat piece) and the edge of the housing. that should fix things up for you.
> Give that a try before you throw in the towel. it worked well for me.


Can you use hot glue or something also, like on the sides or whatever? I'm thinking of doing the Ceesa cable mod, so when and if I do open it up I'd like the fix the rattle issue, because there appears to be some very minuscule amounts of shaking of the sensor.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Can you use hot glue or something also, like on the sides or whatever? I'm thinking of doing the Ceesa cable mod, so when and if I do open it up I'd like the fix the rattle issue, because there appears to be some very minuscule amounts of shaking of the sensor.


You can put something between the plastic part that contains the lens and the bottom shell of the mouse. You could use a thin piece of paper or something. I used a bit of scotch tape. After you open up the mouse and look at everything in there, it will be very obvious what you can do to fix it, so don't worry.


----------



## Melan

I received new MX2 hyperglides. My old wore down to 0.1mm in 7 months on cloth. With new feet CPI went from 435 to 415. Gotta change all sensitivities again, sigh.

Left one is new MX-2 hyperglide 0.5mm, right one is worn down MX-2. Took 6-7 month to get it that thin.


----------



## Yahar

Has anyone been able to create frankenmouse WMO as shell with g303's internals + omron's? I'm curious and will probably try soon.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yahar*
> 
> Has anyone been able to create frankenmouse WMO as shell with g303's internals + omron's? I'm curious and will probably try soon.


Not that i have seen. Someone did the 303 inside the G100s shell recently.


----------



## domon

Is there a way have all the lights off without having LGS running in the background? Or, even better, without having it installed? Are lighting settings saved to the on-board memory? I was messing around in the software a few days ago when something freaked out and all of my settings were reset. Ever since then, the lighting stays on the stock breathing profile until I open the software AND navigate to the lighting tab. I've tried reinstalling windows drivers and LGS multiple times.


----------



## Bucake

yep, saved on the mouse.
can install, turn off LEDs, uninstall.


----------



## domon

hey wow that was easy im so stupid thanks


----------



## IaVoR

I've been reading about downgrading to v24

so far I've downloaded and installed LGS_8.70.315, but I'm not sure what to do next, can't I just flash the v24 firmware which is located in the LGS directory?


----------



## Melan

No. You need to replace firmware in V26 for V24 then flash it. There's no reason to downgrade though.


----------



## Bucake

i agree there's no good reason. i thought that the latest firmware added 4-5 ms button latency, but it turned out that was only the case for a few other logitech mice (g502, g402, and maybe others?)
however, if you insist, this post helped me downgrade the firmware


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Only applied to G502(excluding Spectrum version) & 402.

I'm sticking with v24 simply because on my rig v26 adds a startup delay to the mouse. I'm pretty sure it's a special snowflake bug though and it wouldn't happen on other rigs. But now that's it gone I'm not updating.


----------



## Alya

That painful feeling when I just recently bought a G402 and Lolgitech pushes a firmware update to add in more button latency, so I'm gonna have to do this.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> That painful feeling when I just recently bought a G402 and Lolgitech pushes a firmware update to add in more button latency, so I'm gonna have to do this.


You can blame people complaining about double clicking. Even with the higher debounce on the g303 I can make it double click if I try, but I have to basically tap the button extremely fast In a way I normally wouldn't. I only noticed it messing with that debounce testing program from the button latency thread, but I can recreate it around 25% of clicks if I really try to do it. It never effects normal operation though.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> That painful feeling when I just recently bought a G402 and Lolgitech pushes a firmware update to add in more button latency, so I'm gonna have to do this.


You have a daily driver already, so no!! No touchy your other mice! Lol


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You have a daily driver already, so no!! No touchy your other mice! Lol


But dad!








I do plan to stop buying mice so often after the G200 comes out, if it's good it'll become main driver, if it's a flop then I'll just continue with whatever I'm using by then, either way I'm gonna start selling the mice I don't use.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I do plan to stop buying mice


this guy


----------



## darkfirebg

Hello everyone,
I've recently swapped my g303 with my WMO, and WMO feels much more precise in CS GO and Overwatch..
So i installed the MouseMovementRecorder program to see if there is anything wrong with tracking and it seems there is:

Every like 100lines i have some green+red lines. Anyone else experiencing this behavior?

OS: Windows 10


----------



## wareya

mouse movement recorder is only useful to test that windows acceleration is not enabled. in that image, it's plainly not enabled. the discrepancy is because MMR's timing between raw input and cursor input are different, or you hit the edge of the screen. nothing is wrong.


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah, that should be a function of your OS and shouldn't vary from mouse to mouse. The mouse reports counts and MMR checks differences between what is reported by the mouse and what is reported by the cursor or something along those lines and can't really see any problems with a mouse other than perhaps polling problems. You can see that you also got a polling rate problem possibly right there so your system probably just lagged a bit.


----------



## wareya

no, polling problems would end up synced in both

this is just rawinput vs cursor input desync, which is also normal


----------



## darkfirebg

Thanks everyone.
It is possible that the "issues" are just in my head.
Still, i'm planning to try few other mouse options (Deathadder, Zowie, the new Logitech pro mouse) to see what feels most responsive.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> no, polling problems would end up synced in both
> 
> this is just rawinput vs cursor input desync, which is also normal


Well it is happening at the same time as a polling problem. It probably has something to do with the computer itself lagging a bit.


----------



## biochem

Just changed my original cable to the paramode .. holy moly. The G303 feels like a wireless mouse now. A completely different feeling!
While it was opened I also fixed the sensor rattle gently. Removing the mouse feet was also very easy + I could reuse them without any slightest trouble.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

I first got the 303 because it was cheap. lightweigt and had the best sensor and buttons on the market. However, I could not stand the shape. So I replaced it with an FK2 and used the G303 only at the office. Somehow it grew on me over the weeks. Now I actually prefer its shape to every mouse I ever owned. Putting two Hotline rubber stickers on the buttons for better grip also helped


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ColinMacLaren*
> 
> Somehow it grew on me over the weeks. Now I actually prefer its shape to every mouse I ever owned.


Suspect you are a youngster here hence you can get use to anything, even if it had cactus spikes protruding from the top and sides







.

I use to use the early Imac Apple mouse when I was your age and even after using it for six months I swore it was the best ever mouse I have used thus far. Boy was I wrong, after all these years and using hundreds of other mice my view has changed immensely regarding that awful Hockey Puck Mouse.

The same with the G303 series, which fortunately is being erased from history when their new G-Pro is released







.


----------



## L4dd

Count me as another G303 owner who likes the shape. When I hold it by my thumb on the back side of the corner and my ring and pinky fingers on the front side of the corner, it helps alignment of the sensor, keeping it straight, so that helps tracking.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Suspect you are a youngster here hence you can get use to anything, even if it had cactus spikes protruding from the top and sides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The same with the G303 series, which fortunately is being erased from history when their new G-Pro is released
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thanks, but I am 33 and have used plenty of diffrent mice in my life


----------



## Aymanb

First time I got the G303 I was vomiting for the feeling of the money I just wasted on buying it. I ended up returning it within a few days. I bought a g100s, ZA13 and liked them both much more. Until I snapped and missed the sensor of the G303 and wanted to give it another go. I bought it from another store, and I hated it just as much the first few days.

Then a week went by and I swapped my mousepad from goliathus speed (which was my favourite with g400) to a Qck Heavy and it got to be the best mouse I've ever had. I don't know what happened, or if I got possessed by some logitech loving demon, but it's by far the mouse that I've had the best performance ingame with, all sort of plays that even surprises me for having done them. I don't know what changed my opinion from hate to love, but I think it's a mixture of getting used to it, luck with actually fitting my grip perfectly, and of course the sensor.

So for anybody doubting the G303 I suggested trying it on another surface, always keep the surface calibration on default, and give the shape a few days to a week to adjust to it. If you're a palmer, stay away. I think this is meant to be for claw/fingertip.

I'm buying a reserve as we speak, in case I wont like the new G Pro... everything about the G pro sounds nice, but I'm a HUGE fan of mice with any sort of thumb grips, because it's the most important spot for me in mice.. and the g pro doesn't have anything, so it's going to be a gamble.

But no matter what, I think the G303 is always going to be a very special unorthodox styled mouse, where it works PERFECTLY for some, and a complete disaster for others.

Also the biggest mistake I see with people owning the G303 is the constant comparing with other mice... If you have a G303 and you constantly use another mouse that is much more comfortable besides it, then you will never adjust to the G303 shape, because your mind is always going to hate it, just because you prefer the other one.. then they start ranting about how bad the shape is. Instead of actually leaving any other mouse away, go ingame, play with it and having as a main mouse for atleast 2 weeks and see how you feel then.

*TL;DR*: try the g303 on a different surface, more smooth/slow styled where the 3366 sensor gets the freedom and air to track around. With my goliathus it was like my 3366 tracking is so damn fast, and the mousepad is damn fast that everything was just unbalanced. Don't compare the shape side by side with another mouse, leave it as a main mouse for 2 weeks and let it grow on you.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> If you're a palmer, stay away. I think this is meant to be for claw/fingertip.


That was the original angle for the shape in terms of grip but people saw the sensor update and recommended it for every grip for whatever reason.

Reddit was a poor conductor of that for a long time. Threads asking for a palm grip mouse similar to a Rival 300 usually resulted in the top comment recommending a G303.


----------



## hylight

can someone recommend me some mouse feet/skates to buy?


----------



## Melan

http://www.itaktech.com/products/hotline-games-logitech-g303-mouse-feet-2014-edition
Make sure you choose 0.6mm

Or MX-1 hyperglides.


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> Hello everyone,
> I've recently swapped my g303 with my WMO, and WMO feels much more precise in CS GO and Overwatch..
> So i installed the MouseMovementRecorder program to see if there is anything wrong with tracking and it seems there is:
> 
> Every like 100lines i have some green+red lines. Anyone else experiencing this behavior?
> 
> OS: Windows 10


Today i took my friend's Roccat KPM and i must say i'm really impressed how predictable the sensor felt!
Within 5 minutes i was already playing ESEA and scoring pretty well without even getting used to the shape/sensor.
I tracked targets with ease and performed few very nice flickshot.
Then i ran the mousemovementrecorder and guess what? No matter how i moved it not a single green/red line.
I think I'm done with Logitech and their "perfect" on paper sensor. Putting my G303 on sale tomorrow.


----------



## deepor

Aren't the red/green lines in that tool things that happen in Windows to the mouse pointer? Like in that example screenshot, the mouse sent data (0, -2) and (1, -1), and Windows didn't update the mouse pointer at the same time, instead delayed things and first did (0, 0), then (1, -3) which together does add up to the same values. The colors are to show that Windows delayed things for some reason.


----------



## Melan

He was already told that nothing is wrong 1 page before. In case if reminder is needed:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> mouse movement recorder is only useful to test that windows acceleration is not enabled. in that image, it's plainly not enabled. the discrepancy is because MMR's timing between raw input and cursor input are different, or you hit the edge of the screen. nothing is wrong.


He also stated that it's all in his head. I guess placebo strikes again.


----------



## darkfirebg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> He was already told that nothing is wrong 1 page before. In case if reminder is needed:
> He also stated that it's all in his head. I guess placebo strikes again.


At least i thought so.
But if that's the case how can you explain why the KPM doesn't show any red/green lines and also feels more consistent?
I've tried literally everything to get used to the mouse and the sensor.. well nothing worked for me.
Of course it can be that my g303 is somehow faulty.. #1513 .. but i seriously doubt it.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> At least i thought so.
> But if that's the case how can you explain why the KPM doesn't show any red/green lines and also feels more consistent?
> I've tried literally everything to get used to the mouse and the sensor.. well nothing worked for me.
> Of course it can be that my g303 is somehow faulty.. #1513 .. but i seriously doubt it.


Well either something is wrong with your system that only happens when you have the g303 plugged in or you just aren't paying close enough attention or testing long enough with other mice. That is almost 100% certainly a problem with your system and not the mouse considering it is only looking at the difference between what is received and what windows reports. Are you using them with the same report rate and CPI and are you testing this on the desktop or in a game, also are you making 100% sure to not hit the edge of the screen when testing on desktop? That test is entirely for telling what your system is doing with the mouse movements and since logitech mice use the default windows mouse drivers it shouldn't happen only with logitech mice. Have you tried on other computers? Have you tried with LGS on and off? What all is running on your computer that could be causing a high load and causing your system to bind because that is what is happening here.

Edit: Also LGS entirely shouldn't matter, but you need to have the same things running when testing different mice. LGS puts extremely little load on your system, but I guess if your system is already overloaded somehow it could possibly make a difference just because it is another program running. This is a problem of your system freezing up for a fraction of a second not the mouse doing anything wrong so I'm not really certain how the mouse could possibly cause it unless it is sending a bunch of bad signals somehow.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> how can you explain why the KPM doesn't show any red/green lines


Look at polling rate on your screenshot. 1 x -3 has 387hz. Windows got delayed with polling.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkfirebg*
> 
> and also feels more consistent?


Shape.

What will you do when MMR will start showing red lines for KPM? Get a new mouse? Issue is with windows here.


----------



## deepor

About the different feel, I would suspect that it's the shape instead of something about the hardware. The G303 shape is very strange after all, and your brain and hand probably just like the KPM and WMO shapes a lot better, and might be a lot more successful making those move around like intended.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I think I found the best way to found a shape that suits you the most. I have a few mice and I used to be always uncomfortable with one after thinking it's the best for a week prior. Well, just so it happened, if you were to smoke one for Bob Marley, instantly you'll find the best mouse for you. Once I settled with one that way, never have I thought of change and selled my other mice.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I think I found the best way to found a shape that suits you the most. I have a few mice and I used to be always uncomfortable with one after thinking it's the best for a week prior. Well, just so it happened, if you were to smoke one for Bob Marley, instantly you'll find the best mouse for you. Once I settled with one that way, never have I thought of change and selled my other mice.


Not sure i fully understand that.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Not sure i fully understand that.


The top shelf is good for his health.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Not sure i fully understand that.


Being intoxicated allows you to feel the smallest annoyance. Hence why picking up a mouse is easy - you don't lie to yourself, you just throw it if not comfortable. It's the dumbest advice i've given, but it worked for me, why not spread the word


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Being intoxicated allows you to feel the smallest annoyance. Hence why picking up a mouse is easy - you don't lie to yourself, you just throw it if not comfortable. It's the dumbest advice i've given, but it worked for me, why not spread the word


Noooooow i understand. Lol


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Noooooow i understand. Lol


Most random advice on OCN.net


----------



## xtenglong

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I think I found the best way to found a shape that suits you the most. I have a few mice and I used to be always uncomfortable with one after thinking it's the best for a week prior. Well, just so it happened, if you were to smoke one for Bob Marley, instantly you'll find the best mouse for you. Once I settled with one that way, never have I thought of change and selled my other mice.


Best advice I've seen to determine your favorite mice. Now just have to wait for these new Logitech mice to come to the US and stock up on that Devil's Lettuce


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

After putting my G303 back together, I now realize how god awful the scroll wheel is on these things.

Well~ all three of the units I own are bad. At least it's consistent I guess.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Ok, after using the G pro and deciding that the G303 is better, I wanted to pick up a new one. Is the sensor rattle still prevalent? I haven't noticed any on mine currently but I don't want to pick up a new one and have the rattle. Should I just pick up the G302 instead? How big is the sensor difference?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Ok, after using the G pro and deciding that the G303 is better, I wanted to pick up a new one. Is the sensor rattle still prevalent? I haven't noticed any on mine currently but I don't want to pick up a new one and have the rattle. Should I just pick up the G302 instead? How big is the sensor difference?


Just take the chance and get the 303. The 302 sensor is assssssss but it is not the 3366. That much is obvious. The Lens rattle is not as bad with the current batches, You should be ok.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Lens rattle. Don't bother looking for the "latest batch" or a certain batch number. If it's there, it's there, if it's not, it's not.

Anyway, the G303 I popped open last night had perfectly melted posts. I had applied that tape fix already lol. I never bothered to see if the posts had broken off or not.

Then again, when I like a mouse I'm never worried about warranties. So stuff like that is super easy to fix.

btw g302 is not ass. there are worse mice. much worse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> Lens rattle. Don't bother looking for the "latest batch" or a certain batch number. If it's there, it's there, if it's not, it's not.
> 
> Anyway, the G303 I popped open last night had perfectly melted posts. I had applied that tape fix already lol. I never bothered to see if the posts had broken off or not.
> 
> Then again, when I like a mouse I'm never worried about warranties. So stuff like that is super easy to fix.
> 
> btw g302 is not ass. there are worse mice. much worse.


Like the Flick G1....lol screw you Fnatic.


----------



## biochem

I know it is a stupid question... but: Is there someone who modded his WMO with the G303 sensor and buttons? No need for side buttons.
Not possible - am I right?


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biochem*
> 
> I know it is a stupid question... but: Is there someone who modded his WMO with the G303 sensor and buttons? No need for side buttons.
> Not possible - am I right?


I think one guy did it with the g502 sensor/pcb on a wmo or ime3? Not exactly sure, I think it was also easier of a mod with the g502 internals

Edit: it was h8m3
http://www.esreality.com/post/2625330/3310-on-sacrifice-wmo-shell/


----------



## gunit2004

Pulled my G303 out of the drawer (I don't know what keeps me coming back to this mouse, time and time again, lol).

It feels so much better in my hand than the G Pro for claw grip. It gives you plenty to HOLD ON to where is the G Pro shape is a safe shape but is TOO safe. It's way too round and there is nothing to hold onto, causing you to death grip the mouse to have any sort of control. The clicks of the G303 blow away the G Pro clicks by far. My G Pro copy has uneven clicks and even the better click on it is no where close to the G303. G Pro clicks feel really cheap for some reason. Another thing where G303 beats the G Pro is the coating. G Pro has this coarse cheap plasticky feeling to it that I do not enjoy that ruins the feeling of the sides (which are already ruined by being too rounded). G303 sides feel nice and smooth and are at a nice straight angle to hold onto the mouse and lift easily.

My G Pro is going back to Logitech and I will simply look into getting a Ceesa cable for my G303 and some new feet. It is the much better choice, to me at least.

G Pro simply does not feel like the usual quality products that I expect from Logitech. It does not feel like it is worth it's asking price at all.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> Pulled my G303 out of the drawer (I don't know what keeps me coming back to this mouse, time and time again, lol).
> 
> It feels so much better in my hand than the G Pro for claw grip. It gives you plenty to HOLD ON to where is the G Pro shape is a safe shape but is TOO safe. It's way too round and there is nothing to hold onto, causing you to death grip the mouse to have any sort of control. The clicks of the G303 blow away the G Pro clicks by far. My G Pro copy has uneven clicks and even the better click on it is no where close to the G303. G Pro clicks feel really cheap for some reason. Another thing where G303 beats the G Pro is the coating. G Pro has this coarse cheap plasticky feeling to it that I do not enjoy that ruins the feeling of the sides (which are already ruined by being too rounded). G303 sides feel nice and smooth and are at a nice straight angle to hold onto the mouse and lift easily.
> 
> My G Pro is going back to Logitech and I will simply look into getting a Ceesa cable for my G303 and some new feet. It is the much better choice, to me at least.
> 
> G Pro simply does not feel like the usual quality products that I expect from Logitech. It does not feel like it is worth it's asking price at all.


The pros that switched to it seem to be doing fine if not better with the Pro than the G303.

Doesn't the Pro use the exact same plastic and coatings as the G303? Aren't the switches the exact same model in the G303 and Pro?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The pros that switched to it seem to be doing fine if not better with the Pro than the G303.
> 
> Doesn't the Pro use the exact same plastic and coatings as the G303? Aren't the switches the exact same model in the G303 and Pro?


The plastic isn't the exact same but feels similar except for the button pieces where the G303 has a smoother finish that gets less grimy after playing for a while. G Pro clicks are more tactile and much, much louder. I have two G303s and both of their clicks are more sensitive and more crisp than my G Pro's. I prefer the quiet, hair trigger style of the G303 but both are good.

In game I feel like both mice have their pros and cons and overall perform about the same. It's out of game that the comfort of the G Pro takes over imo.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The pros that switched to it seem to be doing fine if not better with the Pro than the G303.
> 
> Doesn't the Pro use the exact same plastic and coatings as the G303? Aren't the switches the exact same model in the G303 and Pro?


The shape of the two is so different that you use them very differently. If you put your fingers into a strong claw shape on the Pro, it feels more awkward trying to find a good spot on the right side, and it feels a bit hard to lift. If you like to have your fingers more straight, the Pro gets easier to control, but the G303 is then completely impossible to use. On the G303 there's no spot for a straight finger on the right side of the mouse. I feel it's a bit impossible to know for sure how someone's performance will compare between the two.

About the click, the surface area of the buttons is a lot shorter on the G303. I assume people probably click the buttons somewhere close to where the scroll wheel is, so that moving a finger tip from a button and onto the wheel feels natural. If you then line the two mice up, put them next to each other and arrange them so that the wheels are on the same line, you'll see that you are a lot closer to where the button area starts (in the back) with the G303.

I don't know what's happening on the inside of the mouse with the buttons. You are perhaps closer to where the hinge is with the G303? With the Pro you are then a lot further away from the hinge and that's why the click feels lighter? I feel the required weight also changes more on the Pro when you move a finger tip slightly forward or backward from its spot next to the wheel, while the weight required to click changes a bit less when you do the same on the G303, but I'm not quite sure if that's true.

Or there's something else going on and the hinge is still somewhat similar distance from the finger tip on both. What you see about the surface of the button from the outside might be misleading. This could be the case because when you try to click the Pro's button in the back, it gets pretty hard to click. I feel this is a bit different on the G303 so the hinge might be further in the back on the inside of the mouse than you'd think. If the hinge is in a similar spot on both mice compared to where the wheel is, I don't know why there's a difference in the clicks between the two.

About the material, the top part feels the same on both. The sides in the front where you'll have your thumb and the right side finger might be the same material on both mice, but the texture of the surface is different. It's more coarse on the Pro. The back on the G303 is of course very different and is glossy while on the Pro it's the same texture as in the front.


----------



## LocoDiceGR

This is a famous mouse lol...how is the firmware/software any ''bugs'' there?
1000hz polling rate working ok? or there is any conflict with the rgb?
Thanks


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Are Logitech discontinuing the G303 because of the G Pro?


----------



## Moohlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Are Logitech discontinuing the G303 because of the G Pro?


I hope not because the G Pro is not a replacement or clearly superior version. Imo, if you can handle the G303 shape it is the better mouse because of slightly better buttons and still a great mouse wheel.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Are Logitech discontinuing the G303 because of the G Pro?


I'd bet they'll do that, but who knows. They still sell the weird G300s so sometimes they keep mice that people on forums think are strange.


----------



## Aliandro1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Are Logitech discontinuing the G303 because of the G Pro?


no. G303 is a purely claw grip mouse and is meant to like the g300 be purely ambidextrous ie. No side buttons but logitech love their side buttons for right handers so it's not. Anyway the g100 series is the egg shape small symmetrical right handed series so no the g303 won't be it's (meant to be) a completely different concept


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aliandro1d*
> 
> no. G303 is a purely claw grip mouse and is meant to like the g300 be purely ambidextrous ie. No side buttons but logitech love their side buttons for right handers so it's not. Anyway the g100 series is the egg shape small symmetrical right handed series so no the g303 won't be it's (meant to be) a completely different concept


It works perfectly well for finger tip grip for me. Honestly I'm not even sure how you could claw it. The way I hold it the butt of the mouse barely extends farther back than my knuckles. I'm sure it is possible to claw it, but that is really uncomfortable to me.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocoDiceGR*
> 
> This is a famous mouse lol...how is the firmware/software any ''bugs'' there?
> 1000hz polling rate working ok? or there is any conflict with the rgb?
> Thanks


Sometimes changing RGB levels or settings can make the mouse freeze and reset (In LGS only).
Mouse never crashes in normal use.


----------



## Jonny321321

Just to clarify (for the umpteenth time), there's really no reason to downgrade the G303's firmware to V24?


----------



## Bucake

nah it just gets rid of 2 frames of smoothing which you would never notice.
i have not noticed any difference between 24 and 26 so i have honestly no clue what it's supposed to fix or improve

edit: maybe the 2 frames is actually good for something. an uneducated guess of mine was to help smooth out fps transitions when crossing thresholds. probably not, though


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> nah it just gets rid of 2frames of smoothing which you would never notice.
> i have not noticed any difference between 24 and 26 so i have honestly no clue what it's supposed to fix or improve
> 
> edit: maybe the 2frames is actually good for something. an uneducated guess of mine was to help smooth out fps transitions when crossing thresholds. probably not, though


What is 2 frames?


----------



## Maximillion

To see the bigger picture you need a 2nd frame.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> What is 2 frames?


So first I guess here is how logitech (CPate) talk about smoothing (in this post about the AM010 smoothing for g402/g302)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Same sensor with new settings.
> 
> CPI steps are 240-4000 in steps of 80 - so you can get native 400/800/1600/etc.
> 
> CPI range was extended, but there is still zero smoothing at 2000 CPI and below. 2080 CPI and above implement 4 frames (<1ms) of smoothing in order to mitigate ripple. Sensors with smoothing levels that people find problematic are typically around 4-7ms.


Here is a post qsxcv did which I think describes it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ...
> first, the 3310 sensor itself has a little bit of smoothing. basically it does an arithmetic average of the last ~8 frames or so of raw data.
> the finalmouse's firmware applies an exponential moving average to the data it receives from the sensor. (most?) other 3310 mice don't do this.
> ...


So apparently the 3310 sensor averages the last ~8 frames, the logitech 3366 does 2 frames instead.

he also says
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ...
> fyi, 2frames smoothing is literally impossible to detect. like if you're moving at 8000 pixels/second, you'd be off by 1 pixel. which makes it weird why it's not just off completely...
> ...


So it is strange to have logitech apply the update to add 2 frames of smoothing if you can't notice the difference.


----------



## Jonny321321

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> nah it just gets rid of 2 frames of smoothing which you would never notice.
> i have not noticed any difference between 24 and 26 so i have honestly no clue what it's supposed to fix or improve
> 
> edit: maybe the 2 frames is actually good for something. an uneducated guess of mine was to help smooth out fps transitions when crossing thresholds. probably not, though


Nixeus recently released a firmware for their Revel in order to remove the 2 frames of smoothing at the behest of qsxcv.

I'm curious how these two situations differ.


----------



## LocoDiceGR

Someone said that g303 is pure claw grip?

I wanna palm grip it, is it even possible?

I'ma about to order it.....


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocoDiceGR*
> 
> Someone said that g303 is pure claw grip?
> 
> I wanna palm grip it, is it even possible?
> 
> I'ma about to order it.....


possible yes but not very comfortable imo. the mouse is super flat apart from the initial hump at the back which makes resting your hand on it a bit weird.

i used to try and palm the 303 when i first got it aswell but after a few days i just stopped using it alltogether because for palm grip there are so many better mice out there for me. nowdays i just claw it and is completely fine for me.
now i pretty much switch whatever grip i use based on what mouse i have. doesnt really need much of an adjustment period for me.

obv. all depends on your hand tho at the end of the day so you just gotta try yourself.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jonny321321*
> 
> Nixeus recently released a firmware for their Revel in order to remove the 2 frames of smoothing at the behest of qsxcv.
> 
> I'm curious how these two situations differ.


They aren't removing the 2 frames of smoothing on the Revel they are removing MCU smoothing. Also I'm pretty sure qsxcv said all sroms had 2 frames of smoothing he just didn't see it on that srom immediately or something. Maybe I'm wrong about that part.


----------



## Bucake

one of the 3366 sroms has no smoothing but i'm thinking that might've been a mistake on pixart their part

and i assume nixeus removed only the mcu smoothing like chr1spe suggested. the 2 frames - 32 frames are probably still there.


----------



## ashr

The left click has started to double click on mine and stops registering when I'm holding it down for a split second so makes things like dragging windows really annoying. Is there any way I can fix it? I've already contacted Logitech and they said there's nothing they can do since I purchased it off ebay.


----------



## Bucake

you can open up the switch and 'change' the leaf to be under more pressure (bend / straighten it). i've also seen suggested that you scratch the two parts that make contact.
or the most reliable option would be to just replace the entire switch, if you can (solder)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ashr*
> 
> The left click has started to double click on mine and stops registering when I'm holding it down for a split second so makes things like dragging windows really annoying. Is there any way I can fix it? I've already contacted Logitech and they said there's nothing they can do since I purchased it off ebay.


Cleaning the contacts like Bucake mentioned fixed the left click on my G100s.


----------



## ashr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> you can open up the switch and 'change' the leaf to be under more pressure (bend / straighten it). i've also seen suggested that you scratch the two parts that make contact.
> or the most reliable option would be to just replace the entire switch, if you can (solder)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Cleaning the contacts like Bucake mentioned fixed the left click on my G100s.


Did what you suggested and it seems to be fixed! Thanks guys.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ashr*
> 
> The left click has started to double click on mine and stops registering when I'm holding it down for a split second so makes things like dragging windows really annoying. Is there any way I can fix it? I've already contacted Logitech and they said there's nothing they can do since I purchased it off ebay.


I fixed this by putting a drop of oil on top of the switch, where the plunger is. I then clicked the switch a lot with the tip of a screwdriver until the drop of oil had disappeared into the switch.

I had this problem on both my G302 and G303 mice. After fixing it with the oil, I used the G302 for two or three weeks without a problem. The G303 I used for several months. I did this to both left and right button switches of the mice, so that's four different switches that survived that oil treatment without bad results.

The oil I used is some sort of sewing machine or gun oil. I think the product's main ingredient is medicinal mineral oil ("liquid paraffin" in English).


----------



## qsxcv

i fixed one of my g100s's switch by opening it up and scratching the contacts with a screwdriver

probably the easiest way


----------



## Poopsticker

What kind of double-sided tape should I use to fix my G303 rattle?


----------



## deepor

If you mean tape to put between the plastic of the bottom shell and the plastic that's surrounding the lens, then it does not have to be double-sided tape. It can be any tape. The parts have grooves that fit into each other, but they don't fit exactly and the parts can slide sideways because of that. The tape will make the grooves on the two parts fit into each other tight and that can fix the rattle without glue.


----------



## Poopsticker

So I can just apply tape onto the grooves of the bottom shell?


----------



## deepor

Yeah, that's how I did it on my G303. I put a piece of scotch tape on the inside of the bottom shell, then used a cutter to cut around the hole for the lens, then reassembled the mouse.


----------



## turbocrea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> If you mean tape to put between the plastic of the bottom shell and the plastic that's surrounding the lens, then it does not have to be double-sided tape. It can be any tape. The parts have grooves that fit into each other, but they don't fit exactly and the parts can slide sideways because of that. The tape will make the grooves on the two parts fit into each other tight and that can fix the rattle without glue.


Thanks man you saved me. I was going to send my g303 back since it had the rattle, but Logitech support is not answering since 3 full weeks.
So I tried the DIY repair because of your explanation and it worked fine!

I modified slightly, instead of cutting a shape I cut the tape in tiny strips of 2 layers and put those onto the groves, which was easier to do for me


----------



## fxniqab

the cursor of my g303 is very jittery sometimes or does not track at all for short time. i dont have the proof of purchase anymore. i live in germany u think logitech will replace this broken mouse for a flawless one. it was like this from day one.


----------



## Melan

Why didn't you return it on day one when you had the receipt?

My take on this is no, they wont. I got asked for receipt every time I asked for RMA.


----------



## Neshy414

Who knows, give it a try. Be up front with that you've misplaced the receipt/can't find the email and see what their answer is. There are times where these companies just prioritise customer satisfaction over staying strict to the book. Can't hurt to try. Though yeah you really should have replaced it when you first noticed it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I really wish they would have released a white version before they discontinued it.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I really wish they would have released a white version before they discontinued it.


What about an all Yellow, Red or Blue one as well







?


----------



## ashr

Has anyone purchased replacement feet from Logitech? I got some a few days ago and they don't feel or look the same as the stock feet. Do they usually use different material for replacement feet?


----------



## fxniqab

When i calibrate the surface for plastic pads my g303 does not track at all. When i use the preset cloth profile it tracks very poorly and when i calibrate it by myself on my logitech cloth pad it also tracks like ****. Only setting i can use is the default one. Am i the only one *** is wrong with my mouse


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> When i calibrate the surface for plastic pads my g303 does not track at all. When i use the preset cloth profile it tracks very poorly and when i calibrate it by myself on my logitech cloth pad it also tracks like ****. Only setting i can use is the default one. Am i the only one *** is wrong with my mouse


it is easy just don't use the surface tuning ever








nothing wrong with using the factory default anyway or is there? the tuning didn't make anything any better for me either so i just use the default.


----------



## turbocrea

Exactly. The 303 has near perfect lift-of distance (lod) on any mousepad I tried it with. It's below 1 cd, around 1- 1.2 mm.

I wonder why the function is even there... maybe to counter for variance in production?


----------



## wareya

it still amazes me that they managed to make a shape that I *need* to use a glove with or else it triggers my RSI


----------



## Pragmatist

The G303 feels much better in my hand than the G Pro. The G Pro feels awkward, so much so my hand cramps and that's wierd af since I favour ambi mice in general. Good thing we're all different.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> it still amazes me that they managed to make a shape that I *need* to use a glove with or else it triggers my RSI


It amazes you that there are shapes that are bad for you? There are plenty of shapes that cause me serious discomfort and would probably cause problems if I use them long term, but I don't go in zowie ec and IMO threads and randomly talk about how bad the shape is for me and how much pain they cause.


----------



## trism

Even if the G303 is not the optimal shape for me, I can at least hold it without getting pain after 20 minutes. G Pro would've been the mouse for me if it'd been a 100% copy of the G100s.


----------



## wareya

Bad shapes are normal, like the DA (palm mouse) and zm600r, but there is *literally* no way for me to grip this mouse without it triggering my RSI. There are minor proportions changes thet could've made that wouldn't affect claw grips and would make it not literally painful for me, but apparently variety is a valid defense in a world where the overwhelming majority of gaming mice, and thus mice with unique ergonomic shapes like the xornet, are basically trash in terms of performance. I can see the g pro possibly being badly shaped too, but I haven't used it.


----------



## fxniqab

which batch numner of the g303 has no sensor rattle ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> which batch numner of the g303 has no sensor rattle ?


I don't think any batches are completely safe. I bought a G303 only a couple months ago and it had a loose lens.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> Bad shapes are normal, like the DA (palm mouse) and zm600r, but there is *literally* no way for me to grip this mouse without it triggering my RSI. There are minor proportions changes thet could've made that wouldn't affect claw grips and would make it not literally painful for me, but apparently variety is a valid defense in a world where the overwhelming majority of gaming mice, and thus mice with unique ergonomic shapes like the xornet, are basically trash in terms of performance. I can see the g pro possibly being badly shaped too, but I haven't used it.


I mean I don't have RSI, but there is literally no way for me to use an IMO or a majority of ergo shapes without severe cramps unless I use a very high sensitivity and never lift the mouse. They all feel like I'm trying to lift an upside down bowl which causes me to grip tight which isn't good for repetitive lifting. At this point I almost see "ergonomic" as just a keyword for that there will be nothing to grip the mouse with on the right side and it will be terrible.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> G Pro would've been the mouse for me if it'd been a 100% copy of the G100s.


ikr i didn't even like the g100s's shape but after using the gpro for a while, i'd take the g100s over it any day. i found that bizarre for some reason.


----------



## Pragmatist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fxniqab*
> 
> which batch numner of the g303 has no sensor rattle ?


Mine is solid as a rock and I've had it for a while. Batch number 4383.

Edit: My first one had lens rattle, though.


----------



## wareya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> At this point I almost see "ergonomic" as just a keyword for that there will be nothing to grip the mouse with on the right side and it will be terrible.


I get the same feeling. I don't know about the IMO, though I can grip the WMO without getting cramped, but I do have a high sens, and it's not comfortable either way since I can barely grab it.


----------



## k4rm4n

Hello,

After try to get used to the new g pro, I come back to the 303. For me the most reliable mouse actually, I didnt need to buy a g pro...

The only problem is the len rattle but is easy to fix. In my case I listened some noise shaking the mouse but not related with the len, anyway I placed a double tap in the bottom sides and all is perfect.

One question... I would like to replace the cable(i am not really unhappy with the default one). Does deserve install the g302 cable? Is possible the 102 one can fit?


----------



## DashKingpin

Was the g303 discontinued?? Cause if so I should start stocking up asap.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> I really wish they would have released a white version before they discontinued it.


----------



## asp93

got a g303 yesterday, very little lens rattle, left click much more tactile than right click, shape is far from good to me but is usable i guess, need more time


----------



## fakeusername

I recently bought a second G303, with the newer styled box. Can someone tell me what the difference between the mice is?


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Last I checked there were two versions of the front box art. Models produced in 2015 have the cloud art and models after that have the current box art.


----------



## jthomp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asp93*
> 
> got a g303 yesterday, very little lens rattle, left click much more tactile than right click, shape is far from good to me but is usable i guess, need more time


Round off the edge here with a rotary tool and it's much better. I'd like it even a bit more rounded of course, but this is better getting rid of that awkward hard edge.

I find the overall shape nice for claw grip though. I was a hardcore palm gripper before I got the g303. Sad that they are discontinuing it instead of refining the shape further. The diamond shape actually gives you good ability to pivot (yaw) and grip the mouse claw style.


----------



## asp93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jthomp*
> 
> Round off the edge here with a rotary tool and it's much better. I'd like it even a bit more rounded of course, but this is better getting rid of that awkward hard edge.
> 
> I find the overall shape nice for claw grip though. I was a hardcore palm gripper before I got the g303. Sad that they are discontinuing it instead of refining the shape further. The diamond shape actually gives you good ability to pivot (yaw) and grip the mouse claw style.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2918751/width/500/height/1000
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2918752/width/500/height/1000
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2918753/width/500/height/1000


maybe i'll try this later, the sharp edges isn't bothering me too much atm, but of course, a less noticiable edges would be better


----------



## jthomp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *asp93*
> 
> maybe i'll try this later, the sharp edges isn't bothering me too much atm, but of course, a less noticiable edges would be better


For awhile I dealt with it but I was going back and forth between my g400s one day and I just couldn't take it anymore.

It feels more like this now:



or this:



Instead of this:


----------



## csgofreek

I mainly play CS:GO, and absolutely love my G303. I just played a game of MM and my fire button would stop firing after one shot, so I couldn't spray. It was incredibly frustrating. Anyone experience anything like this before? (I deathmatched a bit and it seemed to have gone away and I can now spray again)

Just very strange.


----------



## repl0id

IMG_1990.JPG 357k .JPG file


IMG_1993.JPG 399k .JPG file


Awesome shape and totally comfortable. Use one at the office all day working and one at home for ut2004, overwatch, wow, doom.. I also love the G Pro, don´t have a problem with either shape. Hands are 17,5cm long and 10,5 wide. Hope that the 304 retains the 303 shape and adds an extra button at the top.. (the lil cream colored bit on the image is a piece of rubber that i placed under the lens to stop it from rattling, works like a charm).


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whiteweazel21*
> 
> Cool, I did something similar and also load the v24 firmware and can still use the Logitech Gaming Software. Kept my settings anyway, and *doesn't ask me to update or force an update* either. Gonna test it now >: )


How do you get that to work? lgs keeps wanting to force the update if I don't use the old version.
What version of lgs with v26 are you using?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> You can just open the firmwareupdate tool with Resource Hacker for example and swap out the firmware-files.
> I actually can't remember if I *changed the version-string in the firmware-file* or not.


What line would that be?
I tried searching for the version number in the firmware hex code but no luck.

btw "version info" file is strangely exactly the same on both versions. v26 shows 95.1.24.0 on its own


----------



## OrangeRaptor

I'm not gonna lie, I completely forgot the g303 had a matte texture to it. I've used mine so much it looks shiny.


----------



## Mx518

After 6 months with G303, I've tried to enable ANGLE SNAPPING ... I play Overwatch and while I think it helps strafe hitscan aiming, it looks like there is more smoothing or latency. Is that possible?









I played 6 months without Logitech Software ... now it is installed... maybe this is the problem.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mx518*
> 
> After 6 months with G303, I've tried to enable ANGLE SNAPPING ... I play Overwatch and while I think it helps strafe hitscan aiming, it looks like there is more smoothing or latency. Is that possible?


If angle snapping feature is made by storing several frames of motion and then determining whether off-axis motion is small enough to be cut off - yes, delay is a part of algorithm.


----------



## scionix

I ordered this mouse, loved the left click, but the right click had a different feel from the left click. Thinking this was a defect, I got a refund and ordered a new one. The new is the same deal. Is the right click SUPPOSED to feel different from the left click?


----------



## fartman

Love this mice so much i bought two, have tried the G pro as well but i find that with the G303 finger tip grip the thumb sits perfectly before the middle bend making it amazing for flicks quick mouse movement. i guess with other grips that middle bend is awkward but its perfect for me


----------



## OrangeRaptor

So I was cleaning my G303 and noticed the scroll wheel has some kind of a texture to it. Isnt the scroll wheel supposed to be smooth? I'll post pics when my camera is charged.


----------



## wareya

It's rubber, which has a texture. If you mean something other than the rubber texture, no, it shouldn't have that kind of texture.


----------



## Poopsticker

Does anyone know if the G303 Mouse feet that's sold on Amazon are the original stock feet by Logitech? I'm looking to buy some but I don't want purchase through Logitech because of their shipping charges. I also prefer the original stock feet over the Hotline Games feet.

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Skatez-Mousepads-Logitech-replacement/dp/B01HY597RA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485052535&sr=8-1&keywords=g303+replacement+feet

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Replacement-Mice-Feet-G303/dp/B01960O2V2


----------



## Maximillion

lol @ the first link. 2nd link is good tho, those are official.


----------



## wareya

not necessarily, it's a third party seller

it supports prime tho which is the second thing that actually matters, so it's good enough


----------



## cdcd

So I've been thinking about getting this mouse since it's discontinued and sold pretty cheap these days. Coming from a Zowie FK1 I'd like to try an even smaller shape since I think smaller mice help me aim better. The lens rattle issues should be fixed by now as well I suppose. Should I give it a shot for 40 bucks?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> So I've been thinking about getting this mouse since it's discontinued and sold pretty cheap these days. Coming from a Zowie FK1 I'd like to try an even smaller shape since I think smaller mice help me aim better. The lens rattle issues should be fixed by now as well I suppose. Should I give it a shot for 40 bucks?


Have you thought about an FK2? The g303 is good but I'm not sure if your specification of something smaller really fits the transition from an fk to a g303


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Have you thought about an FK2? The g303 is good but I'm not sure if your specification of something smaller really fits the transition from an fk to a g303


I'd also like to try different clicks and a different sensor, therefore no FK2 for me.
Nixeus Revel would be another contender, but it's not that much smaller than the FK1. I'm also considering a G Pro or G102/203.


----------



## ncck

Well a g303 may be a hit or a miss for you. I think it's good but it may be very foreign compared to fk.

The g203 you.. may like? It's better to get over the g pro because it's cheaper I believe and similar performance.. plus it comes with a braided cord. The revel is another decent pick as well.. it's up to you mate. I just hope you won't use another mouse and then immediately miss your FK. FK was a weird mouse for me, I used it for 2 years? It was just so simple and I loved that about it.. I do hope it gets a refresh in the future.

G203 is looking decent for you.. and it ship&sold via amazon so if you really hate it you can send it back!


----------



## DiGY

The g303 was on sale for $30 today and I was going to buy on instinct until I remembered all the issues that the g303 had regarding build quality. Not sure if the later batches still have issues but I'm still hesitant on buying one.


----------



## gunit2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiGY*
> 
> The g303 was on sale for $30 today and I was going to buy on instinct until I remembered all the issues that the g303 had regarding build quality. Not sure if the later batches still have issues but I'm still hesitant on buying one.


G303 build quality is fantastic compared to their craptacular quality control on their newest releases (G Pro and G403).


----------



## DiGY

Seems like a hit and miss tbh. I tried my relatives g403 and it seemed pretty good but there was some rattle in the front of the mouse (not coming from the scroll wheel though). My g pro on the other hand seems pretty solid in build quality.


----------



## OrangeRaptor

It's so worn. For some reason the scroll wheel formed a sort of texture instead of the normal smooth surface.Had it for about a year and a half now and I really like it. I actually keep it clean for how much I use it. I rarely clean it as well.


----------



## danceroid

I'm going to buy it today. Which i could not decide G102, G203 or g303?


----------



## bellissimo

G102 and G203 are the same mouse if i'm not wrong. You may prefer the shape, but tha G303 has a better sensor


----------



## CTV

Hey guys

Its been a while since I have been active on OCN. I noticed that I have been able to identify at least 3 different part numbers for the G303Daedalus Apex:

1.) 910-004380 --> as per Amazon see https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Gaming-910-004380/dp/B00TKFD51M
2.) 910-004383 --> as per the packaging of the one I personally own
3.) 910-004384 --> as per one this link on Logitech's website see http://gaming.logitech.com/en-hk/product/gaming-mouse-g303 (Specifications tab)

Does anyone know what the differences are? Thanks.

CTV


----------



## cdcd

So I picked one up used (complete with tape fix for lens rattle and paracord) and I'm really loving it. I don't know how the shape could be uncomfortable for anyone since it's incredibly comfy for me (hands are 19/10cm). The weight is great, tracking and flicks shots are both equally easy. LOD could actually be a bit higher though since even lifting it up ever so slightly can cause it to lose tracking or behave weird. A slightly bigger base providing extra stability would be better as well. Overall it's a great mouse though, I'm even comtemplating getting a spare one given that it is EOL.


----------



## zackowns

Where did u buy the g303 with papacord?


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zackowns*
> 
> Where did u buy the g303 with papacord?


Ebay perhaps? I sold my G Pro with a neon green Paracord and Hotline Game's feet a few months ago. ^-^


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Ebay perhaps?


German Ebay, to be precise. Seller was a fellow OCN user


----------



## zackowns

Couldn't find any on eBay in the us


----------



## Mastoras78

Anyone can recommend a source to buy a new G303 for a decent price ? I can only find cheap refurbished or expensive new ones. I live in Europe. Thank's !


----------



## cdcd

Check german ebay. Sometimes local Media Markt stores offer one or two there. I actually got a spare one that way (RMAing right now due to lens that is shifting around by ~1cm).


----------



## DiGY

Is it safe to order a used g303 on Amazon? Most of them are being sold around $30, but I'm not sure if they are the old batch with the rattle issues.


----------



## cdcd

There is no batch that hasn't some degree of lens rattle (or might develop it later on). So pretty much your best (and only) bet is to fix it yourself at some point.


----------



## nicolovbg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> There is no batch that hasn't some degree of lens rattle (or might develop it later on). So pretty much your best (and only) bet is to fix it yourself at some point.


Must disagree. I received a replacement for my G303 which has lens rattle and the cursor with the new mouse does not move by a single pixel on 12K DPI with the tape test.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicolovbg*
> 
> Must disagree. I received a replacement for my G303 which has lens rattle and the cursor with the new mouse does not move by a single pixel on 12K DPI with the tape test.


Meaning: something else is rattling.
(buttons, little white piece around the logo led, etc..)


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> little white piece around the logo led


In my opinion, literally the most useless thing inside the mouse. Oh, and that plastic sensor cover....


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nicolovbg*
> 
> Must disagree. I received a replacement for my G303 which has lens rattle and the cursor with the new mouse does not move by a single pixel on 12K DPI with the tape test.


Do you mean 'had' lens rattle instead of 'has' (i.e. the one you got replaced has lens rattle)?

Consider yourself lucky then, getting a G303 with zero lens movement is not a common thing. It might loosen itself over time though.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

The first two units I purchased only had lens movement after opening them up. The last one I purchased also did not have it. However, I opened it and applied the fix out of boredom.

Now, I chased down extremely early batches last year. I ended up getting two.

First sealed one was from a month after release. Second sealed one was from when it was first possible to buy one and had an early firmware. Both had a laughably absurd amount of lens movement.


----------



## Melan

Can confirm. Uaok opened my G303 too and lens was moving after that. It's all his fault.


----------



## RevanCorana

Jokes aside just put some adhesive molding paste between the lense and pcb.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Can confirm. Uaok opened my G303 too and lens was moving after that. It's all his fault.


Well~ someone's upset that I can open the G403 without breaking the front plastic pieces. You could only do it once. Hah. Get gud.


----------



## Melan

I can open G403 without breaking front plastic as much as I want, it's just not worth the time doing it carefully.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Looking for a G303 replacement as I am now back to becoming a video game playing nerd who likes to destroy hand playing the worst game using the most ill fitted mouse in existence.


----------



## wareya

well the kone pure 2017 finally exists so


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wareya*
> 
> well the kone pure 2017 finally exists so


Different shape.

Besides there's nothing like the cramp that is left upon your hand, when using the G303 series.

Pain that will last long after the device is worn away and broken, after many years of faithful usage







.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> In my opinion, literally the most useless thing inside the mouse. Oh, and that plastic sensor cover....


Yeah, never fully understood it's use either, is the logo light the exactly the same without it?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Looking for a G303 replacement as I am now back to becoming a video game playing nerd who likes to destroy hand playing the worst game using the most ill fitted mouse in existence.


Welcome back, self loathing drives us all.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Yeah, never fully understood it's use either, is the logo light the exactly the same without it?


It's there for a reason. If it's removed, some light intensity for the logo led is lost. Which is meaningless to me.


----------



## jjpjimmy

After almost 2 years of use my G303 has begun to double click on the left click. Though certainly didn't last as long as the G400.

Fortunately happened just a couple weeks from when my warranty would have expired. Lets see if Logitech is okay with a de-braided cable.


----------



## Melan

I doubt they'll ask for your G303 to be returned. Just don't mention the debraided cord to them.


----------



## cdcd

Will be interesting to see whether you'll be able get a new one as a replacement. Support told me that they don't have any 303 as replacement anymore and offered me a 403 instead.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> Will be interesting to see whether you'll be able get a new one as a replacement. Support told me that they don't have any 303 as replacement anymore and offered me a 403 instead.


You reminded me that my wireless g403 has collected some dust. It's been sitting out on my desk unused for the past several months. I need to put that thing in storage.


----------



## ncck

So is the G303 officially discontinued? Will it be replaced by a newer model? I hope the G Pro wasn't the intended replacement because they're two very different shapes and I find the G303 superior to the pro.

I think a G303 with the same shape but a rounded rear without the texture change (LEDs portion and a rounded back) would have been a much bigger hit for claw users. I could never really explain it but the G303 always felt super responsive for aiming. I guess the aggressive shape mixed with size/sensor position is why but it always felt like voodoo when gaming with it compared to other logitech mice - as if it was just more accurate. I also find it has the best clicks/scroll wheel compared to the Gpro/G203. I only found the side buttons to be a little rough on actuation. Anyway if it is discontinued I'm personally sad to see it go. Oh also the cable underneath the braid is pretty solid. They should have never had the braid too


----------



## m0uz

What's even more stupid is how the G300s is still on their site. I don't like either shape but get rid of that turd and keep the 303.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m0uz*
> 
> What's even more stupid is how the G300s is still on their site. I don't like either shape but get rid of that turd and keep the 303.


The G302 is still up too... I'm not sure if it's just up until stock is out or..


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> Will be interesting to see whether you'll be able get a new one as a replacement. Support told me that they don't have any 303 as replacement anymore and offered me a 403 instead.


How long has it been?

Logitech support finally got around to an RMA and they have told me the same message as yours. No more G303s...

They gave the okay for a GPro instead of the g403.


----------



## racer11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjpjimmy*
> 
> How long has it been?
> 
> Logitech support finally got around to an RMA and they have told me the same message as yours. No more G303s...
> 
> They gave the okay for a GPro instead of the g403.


They offered me a G502 lol.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *racer11*
> 
> They offered me a G502 lol.


Completely different in size and shape, THEY should of given you the current model G203 or G Pro series.

So much for servicing the Gaming Community, when they take your tiny G303 and substitute it with a BUS sized model.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Completely different in size and shape, THEY should of given you the current model G203 or G Pro series.
> 
> So much for servicing the Gaming Community, when they take your tiny G303 and substitute it with a BUS sized model.


Iz a cozy bus, though.. ;3


----------



## Yukon Trooper

They'd probably concede to replacing the G303 with whatever mouse model you want and they have in stock, sans the wireless gaming mice.


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Just received my G303 today. Love the shape and size. Aim is instantly better. Coming from an MX518, G602 and G403 the G303 beats them all for me. I now appreciate how the previous mice have all been too large for my 17.5x9.5cm hands in competitive FPS. I'll be keeping my G602 for daily use and casual gaming. Having a wire again is a pain in the ass, even with a bungee. I can't wait until Logitech starts putting their wireless tech into smaller gaming mice.

I find my hand naturally rests in a palm grip with maybe a tiny bit of gap for a semi-claw/palm hybrid grip. My thumb and pinky fit perfectly on the flat edge before the hump with my ring finger in front of my pinky on the flat edge. The humps don't bother me at all and really help lock in the grip. It's not a safe shape, but if fits your hand you'll love it.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> So is the G303 officially discontinued?


Yes it is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjpjimmy*
> 
> How long has it been?
> 
> Logitech support finally got around to an RMA and they have told me the same message as yours. No more G303s...
> 
> They gave the okay for a GPro instead of the g403.


Overall the RMA process took about 2 weeks.

I've gotten a G403 which I'm going to sell. Gonna apply the tape fix on the spare G303 myself.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

I think the G303 will end up being the best mouse I'll ever have in my hand in my life.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PrincessSlipper*
> 
> I think the G303 will end up being the best mouse I'll ever have in my hand in my life.


Indeed, all of my minions seem to love it as well divided equally among the girls and boys







.


----------



## Poopsticker

I hope they create a G304. Currently trying to force myself to get used the G Pro's shape (hybrid palm/claw grip here w/ 17-18 x 10 cm).


----------



## PrincessSlipper

Nothing at all wrong with this sensor and I think it's overall "cleaner" than the Mercury which can be rough at the middle framerate transition. With that shape I put my thumb brushing against the lower button and don't use the forward side button at all and exert good force with my thumb bent. Only way to stabilize that thing properly I feel and with that button there you might as well use it.

With the G303 I eventually fell into a sort of IMO 1.1 grip using both thumb buttons naturally. Should I thank Skadoodle for this?


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> I hope they create a G304. Currently trying to force myself to get used the G Pro's shape (hybrid palm/claw grip here w/ 17-18 x 10 cm).


What would they change though? I guess I would prefer a mechanical encoder and for the mouse to weigh about 10g less.


----------



## Poopsticker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chr1spe*
> 
> What would they change though? I guess I would prefer a mechanical encoder and for the mouse to weigh about 10g less.


Not exactly sure. G Pro isn't exactly a replacement for the G303. I can grip the G303, but not the G Pro as I feel like I'm losing grip on it (hybrid palm/claw). The hump on the G Pro is less pronounced compared to the g303 and the G Pro sides aren't straight which make it a bit harder to get a good grip on. I guess a shape/size between a g403 and G Pro? The G303 always felt a bit bigger than the G Pro to me (probably because of the hump).


----------



## Menthalion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poopsticker*
> 
> Not exactly sure. G Pro isn't exactly a replacement for the G303. I can grip the G303, but not the G Pro as I feel like I'm losing grip on it (hybrid palm/claw). The hump on the G Pro is less pronounced compared to the g303 and the G Pro sides aren't straight which make it a bit harder to get a good grip on. I guess a shape/size between a g403 and G Pro? The G303 always felt a bit bigger than the G Pro to me (probably because of the hump).


I have the same problem, but I attribute the higher / longer hump on the G Pro to be the root of the problem.


----------



## the1onewolf

I think the sides of the g303 and gpro are just very hit or miss for most people.

The G303 has a very extreme \/ slant so it's actually a "normal" width where the side grip begins but it's just so thin towards the middle and the end. If the width gradually tapered in I think most people wouldn't have cramps or issues using the g303.

I think the gpro's problem is the general () egg shape of the models where's I think the g100 had much flatter sides. I think the "miss" from this mouse stems from the egg shape making the mouse feels much smaller than it actually is (compared to say the g100) and also giving some people trouble gripping it.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

My cramping issues with the 3.5 abyssus were caused by how tightly I felt I had to hold the mouse. The G303 doesn't need to be held roughly at all I think unless you're trying to force it to be a pure fingertip mouse while also using both thumb buttons.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

@ 500hz this mouse actually points and clicks correctly and feels much more normal. I think it might just be the polling rate being different numbers constantly. @ 1000hz I could sometimes lose the cursor but at the lower report rate I never lose it and also I fall into a more normal and comfortable grip which lets me handle the device better.

This is sort of bizarre to me. I think maybe at 500hz it might just stop doing funny stuff in terms of code execution which needs to be there to make it send all of those reports. It feels very much like a normal mouse at this setting, but also retains it's incredible tight aiming utility (darkfield). I'm very happy with the device at this setting. With the Mercury you suffer a low framerate and it's a normal mouse in terms of aiming. The darkfield 3366 runs at a better framerate and aims better and maybe @ 500hz it just stops doing nonsense.

Conceptually, this thing can make a report for every frame that it takes so long as it's fast enough with the right code execution. When it tries to send 1000 reports a second - first of all, that's alot of work to do in 1ms given darkfield is being implemented. Also, it's a target but in practice you're talking about big changes in reports/second based on what you're doing with the mouse. Also, the device sometimes freaks out and sends 1500+ sometimes, which is normal. I also think it's doing formatting to try to hit target tight aiming first, and then try to keep things fluid. When you set it at 500hz you are removing a variable which probably doesn't need to be there and maybe you're also simply deactivating features of the mouse which hurt more than help performance.

At precisely 500hz and 800 CPI this device feels awesome. It feels like around 7000 frames vs the Mercury's 4500 at mid speeds and it's a better 7000 frames when it comes to aiming given a tuned LOD and tracking implementation which is basically darkfield.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PrincessSlipper*
> 
> I think the G303 will end up being the best mouse I'll ever have in my hand in my life.


Crappy scroll wheel and impossible to grip from the back of the sides. Otherwise this mouse would have been my top 1. It's number 2 behind the G Pro though.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

I've decided that the 3366 is simply not correct in it's behaviour. First of all, when executing sweeping motions the output is too unnaturally smoothed out, almost as if there have been spacing points inserted. There's almost certainly horseplay going on there I feel. Also if you zoom in and just draw small circles and also waggle slowly it's just wrong in it's output. The product is not appropriately granular and it's also jumping from point to point rather than being granular and just honest. There's also clear delay - maybe that's just local sync issues but I'm not moving enough in a small enough time to make the frame jump around like this IMO. I can't even think of what it would be like to try to pistol round with this thing against good players. The Mercury is honest. It works properly. It's like the 3888 or the MLT-04. Also pretty sure that the Mercury does a 1:1 or slightly downscaled "850" CPI and that the 1k report rate is very well done. The 900 CPI step should feel 1:1 but isn't I feel.

I think with the 3366 it's a blind man's mouse. If you put this thing on a bench and measure at different speeds it'll do pretty well - not as well as a 3888 or MLT-04 or Mercury, but pretty well. The benefits of it are that it gives a 1:1 800 CPI @ 1000hz well with superior framerates relative to it's direct competitor (Mercury). I like it fine if you leave surface turning off and run it at exactly 800 CPI and I think that the 1000hz is pretty OK - it doesn't need to be run at 500hz. It's quite nice.

But the Mercury is just basically totally raw with a well done 1000hz except for it's framerate problems.


----------



## the1freeMan

For all the women that have been wronged by manipulative 3366's chose an honest man, I mean sensor, like Mercury.
He is a hard working mansensor that will take care of your emotional needs, just do't go too rough with it, the chord is kinda flimsy..

Btw, cpi is out of spec an "all" mice using the merc.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

With this mouse I have to make an effort to put my hand on it in the exact right way to use it properly, sort of like a golf club or something. Then I never move any part of my hand unneccessarily unless I've willing to give up the grip (which enables effective use of all the buttons). It's hilarious to me. The G203 I can just do whatever with it and it works except for giving me a headache.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> For all the women that have been wronged by manipulative 3366's chose an honest man, I mean sensor, like Mercury.
> He is a hard working mansensor that will take care of your emotional needs, just do't go too rough with it, the chord is kinda flimsy..
> 
> Btw, cpi is out of spec an "all" mice using the merc.


Most women don't seem to care about mice it's basically us tossers who get all zealous about it all.

My 12 year old doesn't care about the sensor, as long as it helps her score big in Assassin's Creed







.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjpjimmy*
> 
> After almost 2 years of use my G303 has begun to *double click* on the left click. Though certainly didn't last as long as the G400.
> 
> Fortunately happened just a couple weeks from when my warranty would have expired. Lets see if Logitech is okay with a de-braided cable.


damn... & here I thought the metal spring button solve that problem. Oh well Not buying then.

I have a G502, it also double click after a while.

I play Path of exile (diablo 2/3 clone). So I will be clicking far more than usual.

Do we have mouse that actually immune to this double click issue?


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> damn... & here I thought the metal spring button solve that problem. Oh well Not buying then.
> 
> I have a G502, it also double click after a while.
> 
> I play Path of exile (diablo 2/3 clone). So I will be clicking far more than usual.
> 
> Do we have mouse that actually immune to this double click issue?


There's none. It's the microswitch, they break down eventually. Just solder in new ones in and it's done, can't see the fuss behind this really.


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> damn... & here I thought the metal spring button solve that problem. Oh well Not buying then.
> 
> I have a G502, it also double click after a while.
> 
> I play Path of exile (diablo 2/3 clone). So I will be clicking far more than usual.
> 
> Do we have mouse that actually immune to this double click issue?


a4tech's light strike switches are allegedly immune, but there's hardware mods that can prevent it also.

edit

I've seen many switches that physically break down, losing their click so I am unsure if preventing double click extends life in a meaningful way, unless it is for a switch that was faulty from the factory. what i mean is when double click occurs the switch is on its last leg.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

Does anyone know if running it at 500hz removes the "2 frames" of "smoothing"? Pretty sure it works properly at 500hz, meaning traditionally.


----------



## Melan

No.


----------



## chr1spe

No, also according to qsxcv logitech mice have a delay proportional to the polling rate over what is possible at that polling rate so lowering the polling rate introduces more latency even besides that just due to lower polling rate.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> I've seen many switches that physically break down, losing their click so I am unsure if preventing double click extends life in a meaningful way, unless it is for a switch that was faulty from the factory. what i mean is when double click occurs the switch is on its last leg.


Last leg? Assuming I am gonna to use that mouse for 5yrs, I am pretty sure I do not click 10K everyday for 5yrs, that 20 million clicks claim by Logitech seems far fetch.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> There's none. It's the microswitch, they break down eventually. Just solder in new ones in and it's done, can't see the fuss behind this really.


the fuss is having to replace it. If you are heavy user it will fail earlier than usual. Both G502, G303 these mouse are gaming mouse, it was suppose to last a lot longer on clicks than a regular mouse.


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> damn... & here I thought the metal spring button solve that problem. Oh well Not buying then.
> 
> I have a G502, it also double click after a while.
> 
> I play Path of exile (diablo 2/3 clone). So I will be clicking far more than usual.
> 
> Do we have mouse that actually immune to this double click issue?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> There's none. It's the microswitch, they break down eventually. Just solder in new ones in and it's done, can't see the fuss behind this really.


I've spent some time thinking about this. double click is only needed on left button, all the rest can be solved with extended delay periods using autohotkey or equivalent. If you wanted to sacrifice a spare mouse button you could solder a wire from the sacrificed button contact to the unused left mouse button contact. Then use autohotkey or xbindkey to program a state machine. I may try it at some time for the lulz. I doubt this code works, just giving the gist of it.

# specify a mouse button
"xte 'Button1 Up'"
b:1

"xte 'Button1 Down'"
b:6


----------



## Melan

If you'll be soldering stuff, might as well just replace the switch altogether.


----------



## gipetto

That's true, though it's said that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


----------



## Clocknut

Sometimes it is pretty frustrating when We pay top dollar for a mouse and it didnt last long enough.

I have both Logitech G700, G502 have double click issue(b4 these 2 mice, I have 3 razer & a gigbyte gaming mouse all of them have the same problem) *triple_facepalm

Now i am not even sure I wanna drop a lot money on "gaming" mouse anymore.


----------



## vanir1337

Once again: it's not the mouse's fault, it's the microswitch's fault. They break down. You can't do anything with it, that's their lifetime. Just solder in new ones once they go kaput and they will last another few years. Or buy a new mouse.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

I think I have this mouse sorted out. Firstly you absolutely need a good and firm and flat and consistent surface. Firmness is the most important thing I think. I got a QcK+ Limited and the mouse is beautiful on it. Secondly, do sensor calibration just in the way the software directs you to because it helps alot. Finally, put it on a USB 2.0 port. It's doing 1000hz properly now at 800 CPI and it feels excellent and the graphs look great. I think you also need time to acclimate to the 3366. It's just very different from everything else that I've used by a large amount and I think you sort of need to just trust that Pixart/Logitech aren't doing anything too funny.

//This mouse is really incredible. You get 800 CPI 1:1 in a shape that lets you do everything - you can fingertip it and also have hand/wrist control and also do counter-strikey type arm stuff if you want on top of that. I'm very happy with this thing. To have 800 CPI 1:1 with this framerate and a good 1000hz is really crazy.

Some more thoughts on the mouse:

-premiere implementation of the 336x, it's just done right and the latencies and everything are good. Logitech really worked hard to write everything for this well and did an excellent low-level implementation. 3330 mice aren't anywhere near this almost certainly - they use multiplier scaling LOL.

-a heavy mouse but acceptable given that it's back heavy for stability and super solid. I actually like that it's a heavier mouse. Compared to my G203 it feels like I could really brain someone with this. I have absolutely no desire at all to even look at any ergo mouse anymore now that I've wrapped my fingers around this mouse.

-really beautiful shape for graceful players who can figure out how to really use it, I heavily fawn over it's form even if I don't really want to touch it all the time and I often plug in my G203 - but still it's really awesomely shaped.

-I've turned out to not really use the forward thumb button, but I can use it if I want/need to with a minor grip change that doesn't, like, destroy my desired control over the mouse. It's just different.

-tightest aiming mouse I've ever had in my hand. It's not really a click flicker for flying through spreadsheets or Wraeclast inventory management but for shooters it's the best.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

This is now my main mouse among the G900 and G203. I modded it, adjusting the clicks and stuff and it's perfect now. It's an acceptably easy mod but you have to know what you're doing. It's just perfect in every way unless I need to approximate using a mouse as a joystick and even that can be done with AHK. I can use the buttons now and it'll never cause me pain and the sensor is good enough @ 500hz/800 CPI. I can whip it around and precision work is easier. It's just the most correct device I've ever had including my old ride and the headroom desktop dac/amp and the old IPod and even my damned Gravatis.

Note on the feet. They're double layered feet and if you like, destroy the bottom feet totally or something like that altering the tolerances of the device in a fundamental way I would advise getting replacement feet from exactly logitech. This is a very precision device and changing the distance from surface in even a minute way can really alter it's performance. Like, after putting the feet back technically even totally changes it cuz then maybe you won't ever get a a correct surface tune after that due to minute irregularities based on swiping direction and stuff. Beware.

Which reminds me to stock up on QcK+ Limiteds. Oh joy.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I was hoping for a few more paragraphs. However, it seems that boredom set in halfway through the second one.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PrincessSlipper*
> 
> This is now my main mouse among the G900 and G203. I modded it, adjusting the clicks and stuff and it's perfect now. It's an acceptably easy mod but you have to know what you're doing. It's just perfect in every way unless I need to approximate using a mouse as a joystick and even that can be done with AHK. I can use the buttons now and it'll never cause me pain and the sensor is good enough @ 500hz/800 CPI. I can whip it around and precision work is easier. It's just the most correct device I've ever had including my old ride and the headroom desktop dac/amp and the old IPod and even my damned Gravatis.
> 
> Note on the feet. They're double layered feet and if you like, destroy the bottom feet totally or something like that altering the tolerances of the device in a fundamental way I would advise getting replacement feet from exactly logitech. This is a very precision device and changing the distance from surface in even a minute way can really alter it's performance. Like, after putting the feet back technically even totally changes it cuz then maybe you won't ever get a a correct surface tune after that due to minute irregularities based on swiping direction and stuff. Beware.
> 
> Which reminds me to stock up on QcK+ Limiteds. Oh joy.


i doubt the feet make that much difference. just using intellimouse 1.1 skates for the top/bottom and notice no difference...and who really uses logitech surface calibration?


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> i doubt the feet make that much difference. just using intellimouse 1.1 skates for the top/bottom and notice no difference...and who really uses logitech surface calibration?


Don't take trolls seriously.


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Once again: it's not the mouse's fault, it's the microswitch's fault. They break down. You can't do anything with it, that's their lifetime. Just solder in new ones once they go kaput and they will last another few years. Or buy a new mouse.


They don't break down immediately. the bounce period increases gradually and problems occur when that exceeds the value compensated for in firmware. even a brand new switch will bounce if not debounced in software.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Even though I havent been using my G303 recently, I bought ANOTHER extra one since they're gonna be really hard to find in the future. I'll probably end up going back to the G303 anyway, always do...


----------



## Hordie

It's a solid beater mouse with a crazy good sensor. What's not to love?


----------



## Avalar

I never used one. Kinda want to, though. Would it even work for me?

Palm grip, 19.5 x 10.5 cm hands


----------



## PrincessSlipper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> They don't break down immediately. the bounce period increases gradually and problems occur when that exceeds the value compensated for in firmware. even a brand new switch will bounce if not debounced in software.


If condensation is building at all that's what kills it. Tape fix makes this worse and doesn't do anything favorable, quite the contrary. Just having the device breath to some minor extent ameliorates this heavily, and then eventually you just switch feet/switches. With power saving/USB features/unplugging this thing will live forever (the PCB and everything on it) cuz LEDs last a really really long time. A G303 well cared for run pretty open (physically) can work for like 70 years probably never having to do anything for it aside from blasting it out with air and turning off the computer.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gonzalez07*
> 
> i doubt the feet make that much difference. just using intellimouse 1.1 skates for the top/bottom and notice no difference...and who really uses logitech surface calibration?


Those feet are thick, I remember that thing. You probably shouldn't surface tune if you put those things on, the result would be interesting. Enjoy your 3360.


----------



## gipetto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PrincessSlipper*
> 
> If condensation is building at all that's what kills it. Tape fix makes this worse and doesn't do anything favorable, quite the contrary. Just having the device breath to some minor extent ameliorates this heavily, and then eventually you just switch feet/switches. With power saving/USB features/unplugging this thing will live forever (the PCB and everything on it) cuz LEDs last a really really long time. A G303 well cared for run pretty open (physically) can work for like 70 years probably never having to do anything for it aside from blasting it out with air and turning off the computer.


Anecdotally I have read that it is caused by the spring in the switch bending over time and repaired by many simply by bending it in the opposite direction.


----------



## PrincessSlipper

Makes sense, it's metal which sweats and force is more going one way than the other. Thx.


----------



## haderon

I got a brand new g303 yesterday and so far I LOVE THIS MOUSE. Perfect shape for my fingertip/claw grip.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haderon*
> 
> I got a brand new g303 yesterday and so far I LOVE THIS MOUSE. Perfect shape for my fingertip/claw grip.


Keep looking for them then. Might need a back up at some point. Doubt Logitech will ever refresh it.


----------



## Avalar

You guys ought to update this thread now and again if you find new or barely used G303s. You know, for scientific purposes...


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> You guys ought to update this thread now and again if you find new or barely used G303s. You know, for scientific purposes...


I can't harm mine. I have 2 stocked.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I can't harm mine. I have 2 stocked.


I only have one D;


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> I only have one D;


Stop liking yours so i can get that one too. Lol


----------



## Menthalion

Funny how people are now fighting for them after all the flack it got for shape.

Saw a few boxes still at the MediaMarkt (German/Dutch high street electrics shop) last week.

Hadn't been there for ages, they used to stock a nice selection, now it's only Logitech, Razer and low quality stuff like Trust and Rapoo.


----------



## chr1spe

Yeah, I'm torn about getting more. I want spares, but I don't like paying much for mice and it pains me especially since I only paid 25$ for mine. I'll probably just wait until one of mine die and hope they are ridiculously expensive.


----------



## SmashTV

Still have one I haven't gotten rid of rotting in its box. Barely used.

Maybe I can use it as a bartering item in the future.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Still have one I haven't gotten rid of rotting in its box. Barely used.
> 
> Maybe I can use it as a bartering item in the future.


How much do you want for it? lol


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> You guys ought to update this thread now and again if you find new or barely used G303s. You know, for scientific purposes...


Mine is in pristine condition, sleeping inside a desk drawer. No plans to sell or trade it unless someone makes me an offer i can't refuse.


----------



## haderon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menthalion*
> 
> Funny how people are now fighting for them after all the flack it got for shape..


The shape was always either you LOVE it or you HATE it. The flack was cuz of the sensor rattle, Logitech just couldn't fix it for the one year this mouse was in production.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> How much do you want for it? lol


Not much tbh. More open to trading than a sale right now.

I can take photos once I fish it out of the storage closet.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haderon*
> 
> The flack was cuz of the sensor rattle


Gotta remember to solder the sensors onto the pcb's!


----------



## SynergyCB

To be honest, I hope Logitech brings back an updated G303. Even though the G Pro is great, I preferred the shape of the G303. I also thought the RGB lighting looked really cool on the G303. Loved how the RGB lighting would reflect some on the mouse pad.

Just fix the sensor rattle issue, update the scrollwheel, and update the M1/M2 buttons to the new omrons with 50 million click life span (Ones used on the G703)

Also remove the braided cable, but I'm pretty sure Logitech wont do that


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

I'd like them to bring it back, but, on one condition. No changes are to be made to the shape. This being Logitech, that's impossible.

It's dead, let it be.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I wish I didn't waste my money on the G Pro though. Wireless G403 too. I don't know why I thought Logitech was somehow going to make me magically not hate ergonomically shaped mice.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> How much do you want for it? lol


All right got the gallery in. My phone camera is super hit or miss.I'll try to do a better one next time. Note it was registered to warranty.



http://imgur.com/JLXKy


Used it probably for two days, boxed it, then used it once more down the road before I perma-boxed it.


----------



## Melan

Nice pants nerd.


----------



## SmashTV

Thank you.


----------



## Melan

If who ever wants those G303 in their possession, ask @Elrick. That crazy old man buried entire shipment of G303 mice somewhere in the australian outback out of pure hatred.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I love anytime the 303 gets new users. Mouse is fantastic.

I would LOVE for the to re-up the mouse. Make it lighter, MUCH better cable. Only changes i would like.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> All right got the gallery in. My phone camera is super hit or miss.I'll try to do a better one next time. Note it was registered to warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/JLXKy
> 
> 
> Used it probably for two days, boxed it, then used it once more down the road before I perma-boxed it.


I'll legit give you my barely used G900 for it. Nothing wrong with it. Has two sets of Corepad skatez on it.

Assuming there's nothing wrong with the G303, though. A little sensor rattle, I'm fine with. Kinda expecting the buttons to feel the same, though.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> I'll legit give you my barely used G900 for it. Nothing wrong with it. Has two sets of Corepad skatez on it.
> 
> Assuming there's nothing wrong with the G303, though. A little sensor rattle, I'm fine with. Kinda expecting the buttons to feel the same, though.


They feel fine to me, but we are diff people. Let's not clutter the thread and PM instead.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haderon*
> 
> The shape was always either you LOVE it or you HATE it. The flack was cuz of the sensor rattle, Logitech just couldn't fix it for the one year this mouse was in production.


It's even more complicated than that. I absolutely love it for FPS games, i find it ok for other game types, i hate it for general Windows use.


----------



## SynergyCB

If Logitech plan on keeping their cords braided, they need to find out what Razer does with their cords. Razer, imo, has the best mouse cord. Its braided, not too thick, and super flexible and light. Not sure how they do it, but I wouldn't mind using a G303 with that cord.

Talking about the cords on the newer Razer mice: DA:E, Lancehead, and Basilisk.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> If Logitech plan on keeping their cords braided, they need to find out what Razer does with their cords. Razer, imo, has the best mouse cord. Its braided, not too thick, and super flexible and light. Not sure how they do it, but I wouldn't mind using a G303 with that cord.
> 
> Talking about the cords on the newer Razer mice: DA:E, Lancehead, and Basilisk.


Yup, razer has it figured out cable wise.


----------



## Gonzalez07

+1 on the razer da:e cable


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Nice pants nerd.


----------



## Avalar

Getting another one, boys.









Thanks @SmashTV


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Getting another one, boys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @SmashTV


A dude I know here in my city has a G303 barely used, he keeps checking ebay everytime I ask him for a price lol. So what should be the right price for a g303 according to your last purchases? And no, this one can't be yours because we are in South America


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Getting another one, boys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @SmashTV


You are welcome.

I have plenty more mice rotting in their boxes if anyone ever wanted a swap or buy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*


TMNT pajamas will never go out of style.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> A dude I know here in my city has a G303 barely used, he keeps checking ebay everytime I ask him for a price lol. So what should be the right price for a g303 according to your last purchases? And no, this one can't be yours because we are in South America


The one I got on ebay, considering it was Brand New, never used, was a steal for $37. I've only seen one New one go for less than $100 since.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> The one I got on ebay, considering it was Brand New, never used, was a steal for $37. I've only seen one New one go for less than $100 since.


Alright, thanks. You were so lucky, I'm being asked $40 for this barely used G303 so it looks like new. I convinced him to let me test it first for a couple of days and he accepted. Thing is I had a G303 before but that was when I used to have a claw grip. I just changed my grip to fingertip.. These main buttons omg


----------



## Nivity

Guess I should have bought every G303 the stores here sold out few months ago for like 20$ a piece


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Guess I should have bought every G303 the stores here sold out few months ago for like 20$ a piece


Yep i bought 2 with replacement plans from Best Buy. Lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benllok*
> 
> These main buttons omg


Welcome to the best mouse on the planet.


----------



## benllok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Welcome to the best mouse on the planet.


Ya, it's a welcome back, actually







. Great mouse for those who like the shape, it's got the right engineering and quality a mouse should have.. excluding the lense rattle thing which is not present on my unit. Well, now that I changed to a fingertip grip I can see why I couldn't use more than 2.4 sensitivity with my claw grip before on this mouse and others: I'd lose control and precision. Now I use 2.6 sensitivity with a fingertip grip and there's so much room for micro adjustments, definitely worth it. Here's my first hour of testing with this G303 (I suck with the AWP btw)


----------



## Trippy

I'd be willing to trade my second g303 that I got as a warranty replacement for my old one that had a fraying cable if anyone else is looking for one. I ended up just stripping the braid off my older one and continued using it because I like it better. The new one has less than 10 hours of use on ot. I'm looking for like new condition Deathadder Chroma/EC1-A/G403 Wireless/g900. Pm me and I'll send you pictures.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I'd be willing to trade my second g303 that I got as a warranty replacement for my old one that had a fraying cable if anyone else is looking for one. I ended up just stripping the braid off my older one and continued using it because I like it better. The new one has less than 10 hours of use on ot. I'm looking for like new condition Deathadder Chroma/EC1-A/*G403 Wireless*/g900. Pm me and I'll send you pictures.


----------



## Trippy

Sorry for the bad writing. I think I still got my point across though.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> Sorry for the bad writing. I think I still got my point across though.


Nah, that's not what I meant. That's me calculating if the trade is worth it lmao.


----------



## Trippy

Oh, my bad. I re-read it and realized I sounded a bit dense. I didn't notice the bold in your reply either







.


----------



## gunit2004

G303 has the best clicks. Much better than G Pro IMO.

G Pro are a bit too light and easy to accidently activate. They feel cheaper as well.

G303 are nice and tactile and just ooze quality.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gunit2004*
> 
> G303 has the best clicks. Much better than G Pro IMO.
> 
> G Pro are a bit too light and easy to accidently activate. They feel cheaper as well.
> 
> G303 are nice and tactile and just ooze quality.


My g303 and g pro are within a gram or two of each other and feel basically identical. I measured them and both take something like 42g to actuate at the place where I put my fingers.


----------



## codesoho

All this recent talk made me nervous and I just impulse bought another unit as a backup









you're not helping guys....


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *codesoho*
> 
> All this recent talk made me nervous and I just impulse bought another unit as a backup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're not helping guys....


Buying them is still possible ? You're right to do so, i'll keep mine and treat it like a treasure, this mouse is unique.


----------



## codesoho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> Buying them is still possible?


I bought one on amazon.de but for some reason they pushed back the delivery to next week. Ordered on 24th btw, paid 37 EUR.
I dont mind waiting since its intended as backup and wont be needing it (hopefully) for quite a while.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *codesoho*
> 
> I bought one on amazon.de but for some reason they pushed back the delivery to next week. Ordered on 24th btw, paid 37 EUR.
> I dont mind waiting since its intended as backup and wont be needing it (hopefully) for quite a while.


I think you ordered a G302, not G303.

Logitech G302 @ Amazon.de


----------



## codesoho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I think you ordered a G302, not G303.


LOL, I'm an idiot! Well... in my defence I did said it was an impulse buy


----------



## CeeSA

unfinished

(mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)


----------



## Lolcarrots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unfinished
> (mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)


y tho


----------



## FeDoK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unfinished
> (mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)


----------



## sledgefinn

Yeah I have two different 303's one with sensor rattle and one without. I still am using this mouse as my main, I have small hands and
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unfinished
> (mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)


Is this going to ship soon? The model itself looks flawless, reminds me of a Porsche 911 GT3, with the seamless design.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unfinished
> (mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)


What is this heresy ?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogoki*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unfinished
> (mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)
> 
> 
> 
> What is this heresy ?
Click to expand...

This now looks like a serious crime act, you can't look directly at it but you just want to spot the exposed travesty done to this poor innocent G303.

I hate this model but this is a crime best referred to Homicide for further investigation and the murderer needs to face the Death Penalty without haste.


----------



## Notty

What did I just see? Is it Halloween Version?


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> 
> 
> unfinished
> 
> (mouse wheel is too far back, but the clicks... phew)


OFFICIAL ZOMBIED MOUSE!


----------



## tygeezy

Mice i've been through recently:

g403 (too long of a mouse)
venator (grip a little too narrow and slippery)
g 203 (I hate how the mouse slopes down. This makes it uncomfortable for long time use and not a very steady grip. Also, the clicks are way too light

I remembered my girlfriend was using a g303 at work and asked her to bring it back as i've never used it. Perfect with for my grip and the way it's angled gives me a solid grip. The only thing I dislike is the braided cable. I'm thinking about getting a bungee for this mouse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> Mice i've been through recently:
> 
> g403 (too long of a mouse)
> venator (grip a little too narrow and slippery)
> g 203 (I hate how the mouse slopes down. This makes it uncomfortable for long time use and not a very steady grip. Also, the clicks are way too light
> 
> I remembered my girlfriend was using a g303 at work and asked her to bring it back as i've never used it. Perfect with for my grip and the way it's angled gives me a solid grip. The only thing I dislike is the braided cable. I'm thinking about getting a bungee for this mouse.


Yea i have used a bungee for so long now i see no other way with a wired mouse. Especially with how thick the braided cable is on the 303.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea i have used a bungee for so long now i see no other way with a wired mouse. Especially with how thick the braided cable is on the 303.


What bungee are you using? Id like to be able to elevate the cord as it drags on the edge of the mouse pad and being that it's braided you can feel that drag in mouse movement.


----------



## chr1spe

TBH, I would suggest just taping it to your monitor or sticking one of these https://www.amazon.com/Philonext-Desktop-Cable-Organizer-Electrical/dp/B01FXG6TGO/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_147_lp_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FMNMR6FRH8079D13MVTR type of things on your monitor. I find that works better than bungees at least for me as it gives the cable more elevation. It might not be good for some people depending on where your monitor is relative to your pad though.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> What bungee are you using? Id like to be able to elevate the cord as it drags on the edge of the mouse pad and being that it's braided you can feel that drag in mouse movement.


Zowie Camade. I dislike the price but it is what it is.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea i have used a bungee for so long now i see no other way with a wired mouse. Especially with how thick the braided cable is on the 303.


Does your 303 have pens rattle? Mine quite obviously does. I even taped a cut out piece of paper over the sensor tightly. Shaking the mouse makes the cursor jitter.

I tried this on my Venator and the cursor doesn't move so it most definitely causes jitter.

I'm going to apply the tape fix to this mouse because I doubt an rma will even send me a 303 back.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> Does your 303 have pens rattle? Mine quite obviously does. I even taped a cut out piece of paper over the sensor tightly. Shaking the mouse makes the cursor jitter.
> 
> I tried this on my Venator and the cursor doesn't move so it most definitely causes jitter.
> 
> I'm going to apply the tape fix to this mouse because I doubt an rma will even send me a 303 back.


My current one does have a lense rattle, doesn't really bother me or my aim though. Kinda just adjusted to it. Lol

If you Rma you will not get a 303 back no.

Refurbished ones are offered at $20

If you all would like i can post the link.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> My current one does have a lense rattle, doesn't really bother me or my aim though. Kinda just adjusted to it. Lol
> 
> If you Rma you will not get a 303 back no.
> 
> Refurbished ones are offered at $20
> 
> If you all would like i can post the link.


Manufacturer refurbished for only $20? Is there something wrong with them all? Lowest I've seen them go lately is $30-40 Used on Ebay.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Manufacturer refurbished for only $20? Is there something wrong with them all? Lowest I've seen them go lately is $30-40 Used on Ebay.


Mine has a little lense rattle besides that, 0 issues.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Mine has a little lense rattle besides that, 0 issues.


And it seems you can easily fix it if you like. Go ahead and throw up that link.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> And it seems you can easily fix it if you like. Go ahead and throw up that link.


Yep not a hard fix at all.

Here it is, 10 left in stock currently with prime shipping. Enjoy.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B071KWP1VM/ref=pd_sbs_147_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B071KWP1VM&pd_rd_r=NWS3B768RJS5FMDF8S2R&pd_rd_w=YqEzA&pd_rd_wg=AnQu3&psc=1&refRID=NWS3B768RJS5FMDF8S2R


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yep not a hard fix at all.
> 
> Here it is, 10 left in stock currently with prime shipping. Enjoy.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Daedalus-Performance-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B071KWP1VM/ref=pd_sbs_147_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B071KWP1VM&pd_rd_r=NWS3B768RJS5FMDF8S2R&pd_rd_w=YqEzA&pd_rd_wg=AnQu3&psc=1&refRID=NWS3B768RJS5FMDF8S2R


Huh, no wonder I didn't find it. Not in the search results for "Logitech G303", at least for me. What shows up for me is an entry that says they're unavailable.



But dang, that's a steal, assuming they don't have anymore to restock. I'll take two!









Thanks for the heads up! ;3


----------



## Avalar

Something potentially even better. Maaaybe you could call it social engineering, but it'd be the seller's fault. Some people ended up getting the G302 instead of the G303 as described. Buy three and refund for $60 if they send you G302s instead, cuz the G303 is no longer produced. ;0

Edit: Just did exactly this


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Huh, no wonder I didn't find it. Not in the search results for "Logitech G303", at least for me. What shows up for me is an entry that says they're unavailable.
> 
> 
> 
> But dang, that's a steal, assuming they don't have anymore to restock. I'll take two!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up! ;3


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Something potentially even better. Maaaybe you could call it social engineering, but it'd be the seller's fault. Some people ended up getting the G302 instead of the G303 as described. Buy three and refund for $60 if they send you G302s instead, cuz the G303 is no longer produced. ;0
> 
> Edit: Just did exactly this


Yep I made sure to check it all out first. A-ok on this side. Snag away. lol


----------



## Avalar

Lmao, I have 7 of these now. Serious issues, man.

I'm correct in saying that the G303 is the first implementation of the 3366 sensor, right? How much do you guys think these will be worth in a year?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Lmao, I have 7 of these now. Serious issues, man.
> 
> I'm correct in saying that the G303 is the first implementation of the 3366 sensor, right? How much do you guys think these will be worth in a year?


G502 was first.

Well seeing how brand new ones for for $100 & up. I'd say a used might be around 70-100 in a year once they are even more rare.


----------



## ncck

I wouldn't be surprised if a wireless g303 popped up out of no where from logi, being one of their first lightweight wireless mice


----------



## gipetto

If the price increased to that extent it would be cloned as happened with the gpro, then the speculators would be burned.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if a wireless g303 popped up out of no where from logi, being one of their first lightweight wireless mice


Wouldn't that be something. Lol

Afterall they have kept the 302 around still after killing off the 303. Clearly the shape isn't hated tht much.

Edit: I still think the g pro gets the wireless treatment first though.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> G502 was first.
> 
> Well seeing how brand new ones for for $100 & up. I'd say a used might be around 70-100 in a year once they are even more rare.


Ooo. I've still got one that's Like New, and one barely used with it's original box. ^-^
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if a wireless g303 popped up out of no where from logi, being one of their first lightweight wireless mice


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Wouldn't that be something. Lol
> 
> Afterall they have kept the 302 around still after killing off the 303. Clearly the shape isn't hated tht much.
> 
> Edit: I still think the g pro gets the wireless treatment first though.


I just wish, if they were going to make another wireless mouse, that they'd use a shape we already have.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if a wireless g303 popped up out of no where from logi, being one of their first lightweight wireless mice


I would cry tears of joy.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I would cry tears of joy.


Same here, if they were to release the G502 shape with at least half the amount of buttons, wireless, ~100g.

Tbh, anything creative they can do with the G502 shape and the latest sensor.


----------



## 0mega1Spawn

It's still possible to buy the Logitech G303 for a reasonable price?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0mega1Spawn*
> 
> It's still possible to buy the Logitech G303 for a reasonable price?


I posted a link from Amazon, they were going for $20 a pop. The seller has now sold out, sadly. Currently i see no place close to that type of price.


----------



## Harcoreta

Hi guys!
This is my first message in this forums









Recently I've finished a extreme G303 mod xD, I designed a new 3D printed shell








I bought a G402 and I real love the shape, but it's a little big for me, I have small hands and I use fingertip grip, looking for a smaller mouse I bought a G303.. but... meeeh!!! sorry but this shape is not for me.
As I did not see any small mouse with good sensor, I decided to design a new shape using the G303 electronics, inspired in the G402 and older logi shapes with smaller dimensions, I started the project two years ago, I designed only the shape and the project was stoped until 3 months ago that I designed the internals and I built the first prototype. The final dimensions are 115mm length, 57mm width approx and 38mm height.
I see than the member M1st was working also in a similar project








http://www.overclock.net/t/1594177/3d-printed-shell-for-g303-mousealchemy-project

All buttons including the scroll whell are working perfect! I had to do a lot of tweaks on the design and in the printed parts, It have also the button springs for pre tensioning.
It's printed in ABS plastic, the sides were painted with a vinyl spray paint, similar to plasti dip, the grip is also perfect! The top cover and buttons were only sanded, and sanded, and... (it was a real nightmare), finally applied a thin layer of acrylic solvent for a glossy finish.

It's called "El Raton Definitivo" in spanish, please tell me if "The Definitive Mouse" is the correct translation xD, and.. sorry for my poor english









I'll work with the files and the way for share them







, I suppose it'll work well with small-medium size hands in fingertip and claw grips, palm grip only for small hands.

I've uploaded a lot of photos.
Cheeers


----------



## Avalar

Damn.

You need some Hyperglides!









Excuse my lack of input lol. At work atm. Crazy awesome mod though, dood. Welcome to Mouse Addiction Counseling Subforum.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harcoreta*
> 
> Hi guys!
> This is my first message in this forums
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recently I've finished a extreme G303 mod xD, I designed a new 3D printed shell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a G402 and I real love the shape, but it's a little big for me, I have small hands and I use fingertip grip, looking for a smaller mouse I bought a G303.. but... meeeh!!! sorry but this shape is not for me.
> As I did not see any small mouse with good sensor, I decided to design a new shape using the G303 electronics, inspired in the G402 and older logi shapes with smaller dimensions, I started the project two years ago, I designed only the shape and the project was stoped until 3 months ago that I designed the internals and I built the first prototype. The final dimensions are 115mm length, 57mm width approx and 38mm height.
> I see than the member M1st was working also in a similar project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1594177/3d-printed-shell-for-g303-mousealchemy-project
> 
> All buttons including the scroll whell are working perfect! I had to do a lot of tweaks on the design and in the printed parts, It have also the button springs for pre tensioning.
> It's printed in ABS plastic, the sides were painted with a vinyl spray paint, similar to plasti dip, the grip is also perfect! The top cover and buttons were only sanded, and sanded, and... (it was a real nightmare), finally applied a thin layer of acrylic solvent for a glossy finish.
> 
> It's called "El Raton Definitivo" in spanish, please tell me if "The Definitive Mouse" is the correct translation xD, and.. sorry for my poor english
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll work with the files and the way for share them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I suppose it'll work well with small-medium size hands in fingertip and claw grips, palm grip only for small hands.
> 
> I've uploaded a lot of photos.
> Cheeers


wow, A+++++ on the work, looks great. Thanks for all the pictures as well.


----------



## munchzilla

that does look amazing... shape looks very similar to what I prefer. a slightly flatter G402-ish shape. VERY nicely done


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Damn.
> 
> You need some Hyperglides!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse my lack of input lol. At work atm. Crazy awesome mod though, dood. *Welcome to Mouse Addiction Counseling Subforum*.


So that is what that is.


----------



## dontspamme

Amazing work! Respect!









You take custom orders?








I've been after the only mouse shape that I truly ever loved: the Logitech MX310.
I'd pay good money for a mouse with the same shape with a modern sensor in it.

I wish I knew how to do all of this.


----------



## gipetto

Harcoreta just raised the bar for amateur mouse case mods. there is a serious amount of engineering that went into that, especially around the scroll wheel. I've tried similar mods and failed. I suspect anyone who recreates this will be using the g102 pcb due to scarcity, i understand it to be similar sized to the g303.


----------



## Harcoreta

Thanks for the comments!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> Amazing work! Respect!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You take custom orders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been after the only mouse shape that I truly ever loved: the Logitech MX310.
> I'd pay good money for a mouse with the same shape with a modern sensor in it.
> 
> I wish I knew how to do all of this.


Thank you! An exact copy is a hard work, recreate measurable pieces is easy, but shapes with lot of curves is very very hard. Sorry but with my basic design skills and my method of trial and error It could take too long









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> Harcoreta just raised the bar for amateur mouse case mods. there is a serious amount of engineering that went into that, especially around the scroll wheel. I've tried similar mods and failed. I suspect anyone who recreates this will be using the g102 pcb due to scarcity, i understand it to be similar sized to the g303.


The scroll wheel is practically a copy of the original, the only difference is that it can be disassembled by two screws xD. And yes, the G303 is discontinued, maybe it can be modified for G102, G203 or G pro, I would need one and take a look for switch placement, scroll wheel height and the PCB dimensions, seems a bit wider, finally evaluate if is easy a re-mod xD.


----------



## Scotty99

I know the 302 isnt the 303 but newegg has it on sale for 16 dollars right now:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826197023&cm_re=g302-_-26-197-023-_-Product

Picked one up to give it a shot.


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harcoreta*
> 
> I'll work with the files and the way for share them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I suppose it'll work well with small-medium size hands in fingertip and claw grips, palm grip only for small hands.


Amazing work. I'll definitely give it a try when you get around sharing it!


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harcoreta*
> 
> I see than the member M1st was working also in a similar project


Cheers ^).

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind. Was the ABS printer's accuracy good enough for parts to fit tightly or you had to sand/correct the contact areas? I dropped the idea of ABS in first place cuz i thought tolerances would be too high.

What software did you use to model the shell?

Got any bright ideas of how to measure the coordinates of screw holes/switch positions etc? I did that already for G303 with caliper and camera, but it's really annoying and i wanna do it for G102.


----------



## dontspamme

What price range of 3D printers are we looking at if its capable of doing proper mouse shells?

I dream of the day where we have our own, little forum subsection here where people share their mouse shell designs.
All people would have to do is find a shell that they like, and plug in the latest, smallest PCB from Logitech/whomever.

Also, whenever a new mouse is released, the reviewer could 3D scan it and upload the file, so we could print out the shell and fell/test how we like the shape before deciding to buy it.

Ah what good times we shall have.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> What price range of 3D printers are we looking at if its capable of doing proper mouse shells?
> 
> I dream of the day where we have our own, little forum subsection here where people share their mouse shell designs.
> All people would have to do is find a shell that they like, and plug in the latest, smallest PCB from Logitech/whomever.
> 
> Also, whenever a new mouse is released, the reviewer could 3D scan it and upload the file, so we could print out the shell and fell/test how we like the shape before deciding to buy it.
> 
> Ah what good times we shall have.


The future is bright.


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> What price range of 3D printers are we looking at if its capable of doing proper mouse shells?
> 
> I dream of the day where we have our own, little forum subsection here where people share their mouse shell designs.
> All people would have to do is find a shell that they like, and plug in the latest, smallest PCB from Logitech/whomever.
> 
> Also, whenever a new mouse is released, the reviewer could 3D scan it and upload the file, so we could print out the shell and fell/test how we like the shape before deciding to buy it.
> 
> Ah what good times we shall have.


You don't even have to have 3D printer. Services like shapeways can print a shell for you for around $30 (for small mouse) in nylon (lighter and slightly more flex than ABS, has rough texture that collects grime so has to be painted/coated) on industry level printer. Theshell development for it would cost several times more since there is a trial and error. So the pipeline would be - design a shell, upload on shapeways, let users order from shapeways directly.

Scanning however is either not precise enough or expensive as hell last time i checked. I think at this time the best use of it is to have a rough scan and then design around it. Akin to vector tracing a raster image.


----------



## senileoldman

A smaller Scream1.

A smaller exact copy of the G400.

Oh, ahh. Jesus Christ. I might end up buying a 3d printer after all.


----------



## Harcoreta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Cheers ^).
> 
> I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind. Was the ABS printer's accuracy good enough for parts to fit tightly or you had to sand/correct the contact areas? I dropped the idea of ABS in first place cuz i thought tolerances would be too high.


Yes! Print in ABS is a little tricky. To minimize the warping isues you must use a high quality ABS and the 3D printer must to be enclosed to prevent sudden temperature changes, also works better with high ambient temperature.
Also in the design I intruduced some "errors" to minimize the isues. For example I leave gap a 0.2mm between the contact areas of the sides with the top cover. I leave small flatter areas in the Z axix only with 0.0mm gap, example buttons with the top cover, and top cover with the base.
I introduced a design error on the glides height, the difference in height is also 0.2mm between the sensor and sides glides with the top and bottom glides, with this error the mouse is total flat on the table








If the piece is to complex or you must generate to much support is better to divide it in two or more pieces and glue them, example the main buttons are divided in two parts.
I like to work with ABS because is easy to sand, drill, paint.. also for bound the parts you only need to use a solvent (acetone, acrylic solvent,...), apply on contact areas and left it to cure.
PLA plastic have no warping issues or are very minimal, but is a little more difficult to leave it with a good finish.
I hope to upload some images tomorrow, I know that my English is not very good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> What software did you use to model the shell?


Autodesk Fusion 360, I tried a lot of them, and for me is the most intuitive. I use practically direct modelling only, my projects are a total chaos xD
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Got any bright ideas of how to measure the coordinates of screw holes/switch positions etc? I did that already for G303 with caliper and camera, but it's really annoying and i wanna do it for G102.


Yes, there are no more options for me!


----------



## M1st

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harcoreta*
> 
> Yes!


Thanks for detailed response, actually i forgot to ask about gaps between parts but you somehow answered, lol.


----------



## vf-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> What price range of 3D printers are we looking at if its capable of doing proper mouse shells?
> 
> I dream of the day where we have our own, little forum subsection here where people share their mouse shell designs.
> All people would have to do is find a shell that they like, and plug in the latest, smallest PCB from Logitech/whomever.
> 
> Also, whenever a new mouse is released, the reviewer could 3D scan it and upload the file, so we could print out the shell and fell/test how we like the shape before deciding to buy it.
> 
> Ah what good times we shall have.


I'd love to see someone try a 3D project on creating the same shell on the Razer Lancehead TE but get it down to 90g or just below. Sadly I doubt they could recreate that lovely matte coating that feels so nice.


----------



## 0mega1Spawn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> A smaller Scream1.
> 
> A smaller exact copy of the G400.
> 
> Oh, ahh. Jesus Christ. I might end up buying a 3d printer after all.


An FK2 with a 3360.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0mega1Spawn*
> 
> An FK2 with a 3360.


A lighter, ergo and ambi version of the G502.


----------



## Harcoreta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> A lighter, ergo and ambi version of the G502.


Wow! Everyone wants their favorite modified mouse








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M1st*
> 
> Thanks for detailed response, actually i forgot to ask about gaps between parts but you somehow answered, lol.


I've missed some details. you're right, 3d printed parts requires a lot of post process. In the top cover I reinforcered some edges, the problem is that this part must be printed upside down with a lot of support, lots of sanding is nedded and other tricks I'll post with the assembly guide.
On the sides I also added a thin support for better adhesion to the heat bed and minimize the warping issue.
I uploaded some images and a example of gaps introduced in the design.




Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gipetto*
> 
> Harcoreta just raised the bar for amateur mouse case mods. there is a serious amount of engineering that went into that, especially around the scroll wheel. I've tried similar mods and failed. I suspect anyone who recreates this will be using the g102 pcb due to scarcity, i understand it to be similar sized to the g303.


I was looking for details of G203 and G PRO PCB and I found one similar thread here









http://www.overclock.net/t/1642193/g-pro-pcb-dimensions-possiblities



With the measures I think I can modify my design for its PCB, I don't like much the distance between the M1 and M2 switches, my design is narrower and those placement is not ideal. I like that the scroll wheel is integrated on the PCB, more easy to assembly, I uploaded one photo of mine, also some tricky xD. I will have to buy a G203 for disassembly xD



I've uploaded one STL file with the shape, I recommend to print and try the shape before build one, maybe you like it or not 









TheDefinitiveMouse-shapeonly.zip 921k .zip file


----------



## Avalar

Was watching this auction on Ebay. Never thought it would escalate this much.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322967018116?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l5997&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI322967018116.N34.S1.R1.TR2

Over $100 for a NIB G303. .-.

This is looking _really_ good for me, seeing as I have 7.


----------



## LoadSounds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Was watching this auction on Ebay. Never thought it would escalate this much.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/322967018116?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l5997&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI322967018116.N34.S1.R1.TR2
> 
> Over $100 for a NIB G303. .-.
> 
> This is looking _really_ good for me, seeing as I have 7.


There's a (trustworthy/popular) retailer selling new G303s for about €45 in europe. I bought one a few months back, then they went out of stock, but they're back in stock now.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoadSounds*
> 
> There's a (trustworthy/popular) retailer selling new G303s for about €45 in europe. I bought one a few months back, then they went out of stock, but they're back in stock now.


*inhales*

Tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us tell us


----------



## m0uz

Hmm...


----------



## Scotty99

Im curious, how do "pro's" deal with dpi settings? I do want to give low (400-600) dpi a shot in overwatch, but that is simply unusable on the desktop. I tried enabling the per profile pointer settings in logitech software but it does not work as i assumed it would, i get 400 dpi on desktop rather than when i open overwatch.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> Im curious, how do "pro's" deal with dpi settings? I do want to give low (400-600) dpi a shot in overwatch, but that is simply unusable on the desktop. I tried enabling the per profile pointer settings in logitech software but it does not work as i assumed it would, i get 400 dpi on desktop rather than when i open overwatch.


Use 800 everywhere, done.


----------



## Scotty99

True then i could just lower my OW sens i guess.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Use 800 everywhere, done.


Won't you skip pixels at lower dpis and higher resolutions? When 4k becomesm ore common place, i'd think the need for sensor that can do high dpi without smoothing will be needed.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> Won't you skip pixels at lower dpis and higher resolutions? When 4k becomesm ore common place, i'd think the need for sensor that can do high dpi without smoothing will be needed.


On the desktop? Yes. In 3D games? No.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> On the desktop? Yes. In 3D games? No.


I've seen videos online about this in game. Is there something wrong with their methodology?


----------



## Scotty99

lul i just got done watching that second video you linked. I play at 1440p and when i enter the settings ive been using for years (1600 dpi 4 sens) it says i skip pixels, but ive never noticed it.

I think ill just keep using 1600 dpi and mess with lowering sens, even 800 dpi is a tad low for desktop use at 1440p.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scotty99*
> 
> lul i just got done watching that second video you linked. I play at 1440p and when i enter the settings ive been using for years (1600 dpi 4 sens) it says i skip pixels, but ive never noticed it.
> 
> I think ill just keep using 1600 dpi and mess with lowering sens, even 800 dpi is a tad low for desktop use at 1440p.


It's probably not going to be that noticeable unless you're using a really low DPI at a high resolution. I'm betting there isn;t a shot you need to make that is a few pixels in size, but it's good to know anyway your mouse isn't letting you down.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> It's probably not going to be that noticeable unless you're using a really low DPI at a high resolution. I'm betting there isn;t a shot you need to make that is a few pixels in size, but it's good to know anyway your mouse isn't letting you down.


Lol, ikr? I'd like to meet the poor guy that can spot 1-2 pixels change color (indicating an enemy player coming into view, for example), react to it, and miss it because of his sensitivity in any fast-paced FPS game. Any at all, for that matter.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> I've seen videos online about this in game. Is there something wrong with their methodology?


It has nothing do to with resolution but with angular granularity. You'll be 'skipping' _angles_ with a too high in-game sensitivity.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> It has nothing do to with resolution but with angular granularity. You'll be 'skipping' _angles_ with a too high in-game sensitivity.


These videos show the same effective sensitivity though with clear skipping when you zoom in.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> These videos show the same effective sensitivity though with clear skipping when you zoom in.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/6pe220/to_those_of_you_who_still_believe_in_the/

Again, nothing to do with resolution. And of course the effective sensitivity stays the same, that's the whole point.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/6pe220/to_those_of_you_who_still_believe_in_the/
> 
> Again, nothing to do with resolution. And of course the effective sensitivity stays the same, that's the whole point.


That's more in line with what I was looking for. I'll give that a read. I'm flexible with my beliefs, so i'm definitely not married to this idea that higher dpi lower sens is better than lower dpi higher sens.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> Won't you skip pixels at lower dpis and higher resolutions? When 4k becomesm ore common place, i'd think the need for sensor that can do high dpi without smoothing will be needed.


You won't skip pixels with 800 DPI on 4K, I'm pretty sure about that. Or if so, the game is bad.
PMW3366 can do at least 2000 DPI without smoothing afaik, probably even more.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> That's more in line with what I was looking for. I'll give that a read. I'm flexible with my beliefs, so i'm definitely not married to this idea that higher dpi lower sens is better than lower dpi higher sens.


It is better (in a way), but nothing to really worry about unless you're running a super high sensitivity to begin with.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> It is better (in a way), but nothing to really worry about unless you're running a super high sensitivity to begin with.


Can you explain why it's better? Could it be that the unsmooth movement at lower dpi was due to the sensor not functioning as well at a lower dpi?


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> Can you explain why it's better? Could it be that the unsmooth movement at lower dpi was due to the sensor not functioning as well at a lower dpi?


Sensor's functioning just as well, lower in-game sensitivity combined with higher CPI simply allows for finer angular granularity. This is what people usually describe as 'smoother' cursor motion when using high CPI. For most purposes, however, the only thing to worry about is to choose an effective sensitivity that enables you to hit even the smallest target.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> Sensor's functioning just as well, *lower in-game sensitivity combined with higher CPI simply allows for finer angular granularity. This is what people usually describe as 'smoother' cursor motion when using high CPI.* For most purposes, however, the only thing to worry about is to choose an effective sensitivity that enables you to hit even the smallest target.


So this will be regardless of the resolution correct?


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> So this will be regardless of the resolution correct?


Correct!


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> Correct!


Excellent, thanks for showing me this! 800 dpi is the most comfortable desktop resolution for me. It's also what I use in wow for a more comfortable cursor speed. I'm assuming 1600 dpi would be just fine for 4k desktop use. So really, you won't ever need crazy high dpis unless we're talking insane resolutions for cursor comfort.

I should probably go and convert all the games i'm running with a 1600 dpi setting. I play at 33 cm for a 360, so I could probably get away with lower dpis in games.

Actually, there are games like gta v and I remember Borderlands 2 not being able to adjust the in game sensitivity low enough at higher dpis and had to use 400 dpi.


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tygeezy*
> 
> Actually, there are games like gta v and I remember Borderlands 2 not being able to adjust the in game sensitivity low enough at higher dpis and had to use 400 dpi.


Yes, the ability to more finely tune in-game sensitivity is among the most common reasons why people use low CPI.


----------



## SmashTV

There's a python tool for Borderlands 2. Needs a hex editor too. Kind of complicated but otherwise works.

If you use it be careful. You can really ruin a save. Make sure you back up and watch out for steam cloud.


----------



## tygeezy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> There's a python tool for Borderlands 2. Needs a hex editor too. Kind of complicated but otherwise works.
> 
> If you use it be careful. You can really ruin a save. Make sure you back up and watch out for steam cloud.


Thanks, i'm done with that game and have no plans to go back to it. I just remember it was a pain having to lower the dpi to get a comfortable sensitivity.


----------



## Avalar

Actually just bought my eighth G303. Opened, but New; plastic film still on the underside. Was already bidding on another one Used, but had to get this one cuz it's New.


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Actually just bought my eighth G303. Opened, but New; plastic film still on the underside. Was already bidding on another one Used, but had to get this one cuz it's New.


I'd understand like 2-3 maybe even 4, but this is some approaching some serious hoarding.


----------



## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johan450*
> 
> I'd understand like 2-3 maybe even 4, but this is some approaching some serious hoarding.


Gonna be selling half of them. The other half is for me to keep and use for as long as possible when no one can get their hands on one.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avalar*
> 
> Gonna be selling half of them. The other half is for me to keep and use for as long as possible when no one can get their hands on one.


Give it exactly 1 year then toss them up on Ebay and watch the bidding war.


----------



## Scotty99

I gave the 302 a shot and it just felt weird. I have tiny little kid hands, and this mouse was too small for me.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/6pe220/to_those_of_you_who_still_believe_in_the/
> 
> Again, nothing to do with resolution. And of course the effective sensitivity stays the same, that's the whole point.


Lol looks like a less "ranty" version of my thread..

Guess I just can't take some people seriously..

I wonder who "everythingllbeok" is on OCN btw..


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1freeMan*
> 
> Lol looks like a less "ranty" version of my thread..
> 
> Guess I just can't take some people seriously..
> 
> I wonder who "everythingllbeok" is on OCN btw..


Look here.


----------



## banjogood

Harcoreta said:


> I've uploaded one STL file with the shape, I recommend to print and try the shape before build one, maybe you like it or not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheDefinitiveMouse-shapeonly.zip 921k .zip file


Here it is! I love the shape. Would love to try out the real thing with my g303 pcb!


----------



## jthomp

arsn said:


> Here it is! I love the shape. Would love to try out the real thing with my g303 pcb!


It looks neat, however, I am very happy with the stock g303 shape after simply rounding the edges. It's really comfy now and still a fast aimer.

Too bad Logitec discontinued it instead of just revising the shape a bit. So underrated, but that damn edge....

They could have done all sorts of cool things like modular grips for it (sort of like pistol backstraps)

Instead they put the idea of modularity into a mouse no reasonable gamer with a modest income can afford or justify buying (G900) and we got left with a flawed, pseudo-ambidextrous discontinued mouse many wanted to love...


----------



## Harcoreta

arsn said:


> Here it is! I love the shape. Would love to try out the real thing with my g303 pcb!


Well done! 
Nice in red! Is PLA plastic?

I hope to upload the files in two or three weeks, I'm a bit busy planning my home reform.

I purchased a G203, but I finally discarded a mod for it. It could be done but implies a lot of modifications in the design, I prefer to do something different, maybe go wireless.


----------



## banjogood

Harcoreta said:


> Well done!
> Nice in red! Is PLA plastic?
> 
> I hope to upload the files in two or three weeks, I'm a bit busy planning my home reform.
> 
> I purchased a G203, but I finally discarded a mod for it. It could be done but implies a lot of modifications in the design, I prefer to do something different, maybe go wireless.


Yup in PLA. Not sure how better ABS would be. I don't have much experience with 3D printing. It feels sturdy but I'm not sure how flexible the clicks would be, and it would definitely need coating because it's kinda slippery (just like ABS I suppose).

No rush for the release, I'm quite busy myself but I'll make time for the mod when it's out


----------



## Aliandro1d

arsn said:


> Yup in PLA. Not sure how better ABS would be. I don't have much experience with 3D printing. It feels sturdy but I'm not sure how flexible the clicks would be, and it would definitely need coating because it's kinda slippery (just like ABS I suppose).
> 
> No rush for the release, I'm quite busy myself but I'll make time for the mod when it's out


GJ dude


----------



## banjogood

Aliandro1d said:


> GJ dude


all the praise on Harcoreta!


----------



## PrincessSlipper

starcraft players like 800ish CPI on a range of mice. shooters like 400 nearly universally. casual gamers who are good tend to follow what the pros do.

personally i set the mouse to it's best setting and try to use that. i use the G303 at 850cpi and the G203 at 900. The G203 is actually at around 870 at that setting and is using the actual capture without interpolation/calculation. I think that with the 3366 if you set it at 800 cpi it's downscaled and if you set it at 850 it's upscaled. I'd rather have it upscaled than down so I use it at 850.

i used a 3310 at 650 cpi. feel is the most important thing i thing. if you play RTS the resolution of the gamescreen and the mouse CPI is very important for control and general manipulation of the screen.


----------



## assface

I want to get new skates for this mouse, preferably Hyperglides because everyone says theyre the best. 

Hyperglide obviously doesnt have g303 skates which uses .6 mm so Im wondering which ones would be best:

MX-2 Hyperglides - 0.65 mm
MX-1	Hyperglides - 0.50 mm

So the question is .1 mm less or .05 mm more? 

Also if I get the .1 mm less Hyperglides, Im wondering if I can put some double sided scotch tape underneath it to add some height? Or would that not be recommended?


----------



## Avalar

assface said:


> I want to get new skates for this mouse, preferably Hyperglides because everyone says theyre the best.
> 
> Hyperglide obviously doesnt have g303 skates which uses .6 mm so Im wondering which ones would be best:
> 
> MX-2 Hyperglides - 0.65 mm
> MX-1	Hyperglides - 0.50 mm
> 
> So the question is .1 mm less or .05 mm more?
> 
> Also if I get the .1 mm less Hyperglides, Im wondering if I can put some double sided scotch tape underneath it to add some height? Or would that not be recommended?


Logitech?s software has surface tuning, so thickness won?t be a problem. Just get the thickest ones that?ll fit.


----------



## assface

Avalar said:


> Logitech?s software has surface tuning, so thickness won?t be a problem. Just get the thickest ones that?ll fit.


So surface tuning will adjust the LOD if I increase it by a few mm? Is this software recommended for gamers?


----------



## Avalar

assface said:


> Avalar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Logitech?s software has surface tuning, so thickness won?t be a problem. Just get the thickest ones that?ll fit.
> 
> 
> 
> So surface tuning will adjust the LOD if I increase it by a few mm? Is this software recommended for gamers?
Click to expand...

Yes. Simply use the surface tuning tool. And Logitech?s software is very lightweight. I personally can?t tell the difference between having it running vs. not running using on-board profiles. I did notice it was slower using computer-saved profiles, though.


----------



## Avalar

And why tf are my apostrophes replaced with question marks now? New phone...?


----------



## banjogood

Harcoreta said:


> Well done!
> Nice in red! Is PLA plastic?
> 
> I hope to upload the files in two or three weeks, I'm a bit busy planning my home reform.
> 
> I purchased a G203, but I finally discarded a mod for it. It could be done but implies a lot of modifications in the design, I prefer to do something different, maybe go wireless.


Any progress on the home and the mouse design?


----------



## 3Shells

Does anyone know if the g302 and g303 use the same lens? I'm wondering if you can just swap the PCB of 302 with a 303.


----------



## wein07

Anyone know the height of the default mousefeet on G302? I was quoted the corepad G303 ones are 0.08mm and they seemed taller than the default ones and concerned if they would affect tracking. Thanks!


----------



## Nx87

wein07 said:


> Anyone know the height of the default mousefeet on G302? I was quoted the corepad G303 ones are 0.08mm and they seemed taller than the default ones and concerned if they would affect tracking. Thanks!


Stock are nowhere near 0.8mm, closer to 0.5 or under.
I use MS-3 Hyperglides which are 0.8 and they track perfect with surface tuning.


----------



## wein07

Does any know if the height of the default mouse feet is 0.6m?


----------



## gonX

wein07 said:


> Does any know if the height of the default mouse feet is 0.6m?


I'm pretty sure they're not 0.6m (60 cm), but what do you need this information for? The sensor can be tuned for a reasonable range of LOD's.
FWIW, I used the tallest appropriate skates from Hotline Games (0.6cm?) and they seem to be very close to the stock feet height.


----------



## Nopileus

Having replaced the double clicking switches in my G303 i can conclude that D2F-01F maybe weren't the best choice, main buttons are now very light. 
Side buttons on the other hand feel great.

They use a rather thick high quality PCB in the mouse making the switch replacement surprisingly hard despite having a high power soldering station.


----------



## gonX

Nopileus said:


> Having replaced the double clicking switches in my G303 i can conclude that D2F-01F maybe weren't the best choice, main buttons are now very light.
> Side buttons on the other hand feel great.
> 
> They use a rather thick high quality PCB in the mouse making the switch replacement surprisingly hard despite having a high power soldering station.


That'd be a pretty fun hobby project for me to do. I have double clicking switches as well.
I know how to solder, so do you have any pointers to what switches I could try replacing them with?


----------



## vanir1337

gonX said:


> That'd be a pretty fun hobby project for me to do. I have double clicking switches as well.
> I know how to solder, so do you have any pointers to what switches I could try replacing them with?


I'd say if you don't like extra light clicks, but you'd want a good durability go with D2FC-F-K(50M). Shares the sane operating force as the default switches in this mouse afaik. Or if you'd like something heavier I'd go with blue Huanos.


----------



## gonX

vanir1337 said:


> I'd say if you don't like extra light clicks, but you'd want a good durability go with D2FC-F-K(50M). Shares the sane operating force as the default switches in this mouse afaik. Or if you'd like something heavier I'd go with blue Huanos.


Thanks for the response. I did some research of my own in the mean time, and found a decent thread on Geekhack describing the differences between Omron models.

I ended up looking at the non-Chinese ones because of their slightly higher bump.
They say it can be done on Logitech mice at the expense of some button flop which I really would not mind going away.


----------



## Nopileus

The japanese D2F-01F omrons are what i used, we're talking feather light clicks. It's it's not necessarily bad but i'd need some time to get used to it, G303 is only my backup at this point. (305 got the better of me)
I didn't want to use the 20m chinese ones again due to their tendency to start double clicking faster than others, i have no clue how the 50m variant behaves.

More importantly unless you have experience soldering i wouldn't recommend doing it on the G303, the PCB soaks up heat like crazy due to the thickness and material used (1.7 or 2mm FR4, double sided) and the lead free solder used makes it even harder.


----------



## gonX

Nopileus said:


> The japanese D2F-01F omrons are what i used, we're talking feather light clicks. It's it's not necessarily bad but i'd need some time to get used to it, G303 is only my backup at this point. (305 got the better of me)
> I didn't want to use the 20m chinese ones again due to their tendency to start double clicking faster than others, i have no clue how the 50m variant behaves.
> 
> More importantly unless you have experience soldering i wouldn't recommend doing it on the G303, the PCB soaks up heat like crazy due to the thickness and material used (1.7 or 2mm FR4, double sided) and the lead free solder used makes it even harder.


The only difference I was seeing with the Japanese was the slightly higher resting notch and supposedly better build quality.
Wouldn't really call myself an expert but I have made some solder jobs throughout the years which still work fine today. But good call, may test on a donor mouse or 2 first.


----------



## Nopileus

It's just the geometry of the G303s buttons or maybe the pretensioning. 
The D2F-01F tend to have a bit of a softer, less snappy actuation to them that feels great in mice like a WMO but here i think we need something more crisp.

Trying Huanos might be an interesting experiment, otherwise i reckon the D2FC-F-K 50m are probably the right choice.


----------



## intelli303

Anyone know if the G303 uses some sort of sticky residue or glue under the side buttons? Went to solder in a new switch and thought I'd clean it up while it was open and removed some yellowish residue from underneath the side buttons. Now the side buttons don't stick out anymore and can't actually click the side switches so I guess whatever that material was was holding them in place? Not sure. 

Fairly new to messing with the internals of a mouse so any ideas would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## gipetto

I'd say the glue has nothing to do with the buttons not protruding. sometimes the button actuator misses the switch and needs to be realigned.


----------



## 7175

Anyone know if the g305 internals can be modded into g303?


----------



## SynergyCB

Not sure how legitimate this is, but this guy is selling G303's for reasonable prices: https://www.mercari.com/u/305127690/

I took the chance and bought 2 for $140. He's also selling just one for $80. 

Condition says "like new".

I'll let you know guys know if its legitimate once I receive mine in 3-4 days. If not, Mercari has a return policy for items that are fake, damaged, etc.

Apparently he only has 9 left


----------



## SynergyCB

Just received my 2 G303's and I must say, they are pretty much in perfect condition. Literally no signs of use. Mouse feet looked brand new as well. One of the G303's had some slight sensor rattle which I can easily fix with some double sided tape. Other G303 had no sensor rattle. 

Now I'm just waiting for my Paraflex cables to come in. Not sure which mouse skates I should buy. Directly from Logitech or some after market ones? Any recommendations? 

Happy I finally have a G303 again. Theres was no way I was paying between $200-$300 for one from amazon or ebay.


----------



## Avalar

SynergyCB said:


> Just received my 2 G303's and I must say, they are pretty much in perfect condition. Literally no signs of use. Mouse feet looked brand new as well. One of the G303's had some slight sensor rattle which I can easily fix with some double sided tape. Other G303 had no sensor rattle.
> 
> Now I'm just waiting for my Paraflex cables to come in. Not sure which mouse skates I should buy. Directly from Logitech or some after market ones? Any recommendations?
> 
> Happy I finally have a G303 again. Theres was no way I was paying between $200-$300 for one from amazon or ebay.


I've used G Pro Hyperglides. Works great.


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## gonX

Haven't tried Hyperglides on my G303, but historically they've been very solid.

I haven't tried Hyperglides in the more recent years, but I did browse for skates a few years back and also tried PureTrak's, which are nice as long as you don't get the old variant.
The older variant I find has very poor glide, but it seems to be traded off with longer durability since I never had to change them aside from being disappointed with the glide.
Their HD variants seem similar to Hyperglides, but both variants really demand some wear-in before they're comfortable.

I eventually ended up with the thicker variant of Hotline Games skates for all the mice in my household. They keep a more uniform glide over its lifespan which is a nice contrast to Hyperglides, and they're extremely cheap in comparison. I buy mine from takasta on eBay, which seems to be the OG of the lot.


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## Ickz

G303 will always have a place in my heart. I was one of the weirdos that actually liked the shape. Best r/lmb click mechanics I've ever felt in a mouse. Terrible wheel and side buttons.

I know there was rumor of Shroud getting his own branded mouse - would be cool if it was a wireless G303 (since he's known for always using the g302/3) with some tweaks to the above negatives.


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## SynergyCB

Ickz said:


> G303 will always have a place in my heart. I was one of the weirdos that actually liked the shape. Best r/lmb click mechanics I've ever felt in a mouse. Terrible wheel and side buttons.
> 
> I know there was rumor of Shroud getting his own branded mouse - would be cool if it was a wireless G303 (since he's known for always using the g302/3) with some tweaks to the above negatives.


Since one of his main sponsors is HyperX, I wouldn't be surprised if he collaborates with them to create his own mouse. I always remember him saying he would want his mouse wireless. A wireless mouse that's similar to the G303 would be amazing. Now THAT would be my end game.


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## daunow

Why is this mice so pricey even for used ones? did it sold that badly? Isn't the g203/102 the same shape?


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## fnade

daunow said:


> Why is this mice so pricey even for used ones? did it sold that badly? Isn't the g203/102 the same shape?


i believe its because of shroud... :-D


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## fnade

daunow said:


> Why is this mice so pricey even for used ones? did it sold that badly? Isn't the g203/102 the same shape?


i believe its because of shroud... :-D


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## PhiZaRoaH

daunow said:


> Why is this mice so pricey even for used ones? did it sold that badly? Isn't the g203/102 the same shape?


They are not the same shape. It being discontinued is a big part of that. Some feel that since shroud uses it that helps the price hike you see.


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## Jonny321321

Is anyone's G303 ridiculously unstable, rocking back and forth, side to side etc? Even though i can grip the shape well my mouse is just unusable because of this instability (plus it seems to tip backwards when I use it). Somehow went down the road of sanding it down to flatten the base which just seemed to worsen the issue. If anyone has the bottom shell of a G303 that would be willing to sell me I'd appreciate it a lot. I tried modifying a G302 shell for it to fit, but alas the sensor sits a little too high in the shell (even with some sanding where the lens sits)


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## connectwise

Jonny321321 said:


> Is anyone's G303 ridiculously unstable, rocking back and forth, side to side etc? Even though i can grip the shape well my mouse is just unusable because of this instability (plus it seems to tip backwards when I use it). Somehow went down the road of sanding it down to flatten the base which just seemed to worsen the issue. If anyone has the bottom shell of a G303 that would be willing to sell me I'd appreciate it a lot. I tried modifying a G302 shell for it to fit, but alas the sensor sits a little too high in the shell (even with some sanding where the lens sits)


My earlier version did.


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## fnade

Anyone still maybe selling their G303 ? would love to buy, as the one i use has started having double clicking issues...


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## Melan

Use contact cleaner on the switch or just solder in a new one.


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## muso

i'm selling a g303 from australia @fnade


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## MaTpr0F

fnade said:


> Anyone still maybe selling their G303 ? would love to buy, as the one i use has started having double clicking issues...


Thank God, I've stocked up these badboys, Now I have 4. 
But yes, you just have to take it apart and solder in a pair of new switches. Or find someone locally who can do it for you (it's better if you've never soldered before, you can destroy the pcb).


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## Roads

Whats so special about the G303? Read beginning and End of thread but nothing there.


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## e4stw00t

Roads said:


> Whats so special about the G303? Read beginning and End of thread but nothing there.


Comes down to its unique shape - a lot of people disliked it because of the pointy rear design but for those who did like it, the G303 basically became endgame.


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## Roads

Thanks are you 303 worshippers palm players then an dthe v-shape fits the palm so nicely? Should matter to a claw gripper?


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## e4stw00t

Personally I have moved on long time ago, but back then I kinda liked it for my claw grip.
Claw doesn't mean your palm doesn't have contact with the mouse rear end but just that your hand is arched over the mouse, so your knuckles (and fingers outside of the tips) don't have contact.
Palm you completely lay your hand on the mouse shell and have contact from your palm all the way through your finger tips.


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## MaTpr0F

Roads said:


> Whats so special about the G303? Read beginning and End of thread but nothing there.


I think it's shape is almost as legendary as the G100s or mx518. Plus Logitech uses the same spring tension system on all of their mice but it's still the best on the 303. 
All of this is my personal opinion/experience of course.


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## James N

Roads said:


> Thanks are you 303 worshippers palm players then an dthe v-shape fits the palm so nicely? Should matter to a claw gripper?


The g303 is probably the only mouse that can't be comfortably palmed regardless of handsize. Its a true clawgrip mouse for sure.


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## mefxes

I had the G303 for some time as a palm gripper and the buttons being open to the sides were my turn off, not the shape. I could use it very fine except for the buttons. 

I purchased it as soon as it was lauched to try the new sensor at the time. Very good mouse and in my opinion the best product of that logitech generation.


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## Yukon Trooper

17.5 x 9.5. I palm the G303, the way God intended. The rear end of the mouse only reaches about half way down my palm, however.


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## MaTpr0F

I use a fingertip/claw hybird grip, and the shape is just perfect for that. My ring finger isn't forced too far out and my pinky too in.


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## zendoj

how to downgrade? 26 to 24


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