# Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion



## Nizzen

Here we go 










Stock 11700k on Apex z490 b-die @3200c14 2x16


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## MrTOOSHORT

Norway first again


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Yup i am trying lol ... any tips ?


just go gear 2 . 1:2. Lower all the turnaround timings.

Hero should be easy 4600 on SR bdie . even good DR bdie is easy.


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## MoeBen

Kinda Getting there ram is not my issue I was trying to run XMP 4400, but I clocked the ring like a 10900K … Unfortunately the 11700K did not like it ... now ram clocks fine I'm just having a hard time doing all core OC there are some cores that have to be limited


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Kinda Getting there ram is not my issue I was trying to run XMP 4400, but I clocked the ring like a 10900K … Unfortunately the 11700K did not like it ... now ram clocks fine I'm just having a hard time doing all core OC there are some cores that have to be limited
> View attachment 2481255


ring oc here diff.

btw its meaningless . ring has a high switching cost. meaning say your ring 42 only needs 1.25v stable. but to switch from 41 to 42 might require 1.5v..

rkl uses high vcore. based on v/f 5.1
thats the vmin


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## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> ring oc here diff.
> 
> btw its meaningless . ring has a high switching cost. meaning say your ring 42 only needs 1.25v stable. but to switch from 41 to 42 might require 1.5v..
> 
> rkl uses high vcore. based on v/f 5.1
> thats the vmin


Yeah, I figured that out lol… at 1.525 V it starts to shine


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Yeah, I figured that out lol… at 1.525 V it starts to shine


go LLC8. 

thats the fix


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## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> go LLC8.
> 
> thats the fix


Getting there im at LLC 5 ... im getting a 2nd one monday maybe monday i win the SL


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Getting there im at LLC 5 ... im getting a 2nd one monday maybe monday i win the SL
> 
> View attachment 2481262


cache just go LLC 8.. but i wouldnt bother. just leave it at auto

Whats your v/f btw . Do u mind posting a screenshot of the bios v/f...
this gonna be really interesting to compare to 11900k .


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## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> cache just go LLC 8.. but i wouldnt bother. just leave it at auto
> 
> Whats your v/f btw . Do u mind posting a screenshot of the bios v/f...
> this gonna be really interesting to compare to 11900k .


Yup will do in a few trying to max out this chip its beating my 5800x PBO2


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## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> cache just go LLC 8.. but i wouldnt bother. just leave it at auto
> 
> Whats your v/f btw . Do u mind posting a screenshot of the bios v/f...
> this gonna be really interesting to compare to 11900k .


I'm not using V/F Curve yet but all core around 1.475v and single Peaks to 1.604v 2 cores 5.0 4 cores 5.2 and best cores 5.3


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> I'm not using V/F Curve yet but all core around 1.475v and single Peaks to 1.604v 2 cores 5.0 4 cores 5.2 and best cores 5.3


rocket lake has pll controller on each core bro
u can run every core different clock...

but because its doesnt have IVR ( praise god it didnt).. the voltage control is either from the fixed or if your core falls within the v/f points.. use v/f

RKL has no flaw like skylake, no L0, no cpu internal parity.. its either stable or bsod..


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## MoeBen

I know I'm just finding cores limits


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> I know I'm just finding cores limits


do u mind posting the v/f bro.
want to see the silicon quality. whether retail improved.


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## MoeBen

i will


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> i will


thanks you.. both you and nizzen now also proved of one falsehood of a A9 for retail is not true...


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## MoeBen

Yeah I think both our chips are from mindfactory


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## MoeBen

here you go


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## MoeBen

I'm not very familiar with V/F curves I will tinker with it later but for now I'm trying to get max all core OC


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## MoeBen

5.2 All Cores ....


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> 5.2 All Cores ....


abit low. should be higher for 5.2 all core. 

ram @4400c16 tight

single should be 72x
all core 72xx


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## MoeBen

I agree ... Let me bring out the big guns lol Gskill Royal 4800mhz


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## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> here you go


What SP is this?


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## MoeBen

SP:79


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## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> SP:79


Mine is SP 63 LOL


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## MoeBen

Mehh I had a 10900k with SP 63 that did 5.4ghz all day all cores another 10900k I had did 83 SP same results but less current


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Mehh I had a 10900k with SP 63 that did 5.4ghz all day all cores another 10900k I had did 83 SP same results but less current


@Nizzen 

the highest sp i ever heard from ES was 8x ..

so..


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## MoeBen

11gen or 10th gen ?


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## cstkl1

@Nizzen SS of v:f please. 

sp doesnt matter

need to see 4.3, 4.8 and 5.1


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> 11gen or 10th gen ?


?? 11


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## MoeBen

When I run benchmarks @ 5.2 all core sometime Frequency gets clipped ... I tried disabling c-states but no luck


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## |2A|N

When single threads get in to the 1000 mark wake me up 💤


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## MoeBen

|2A|N said:


> When single threads get in to the 1000 mark wake me up 💤


Alder-lake maybe ....


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> When I run benchmarks @ 5.2 all core sometime Frequency gets clipped ... I tried disabling c-states but no luck


hmm dat smells like a nerfed bios power limit..

protect nda on performance numbers??


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## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> hmm dat smells like a nerfed bios power limit..
> 
> protect nda on performance numbers??


That's exactly what I thought ! it seems ppl are getting better result on Z490 .... my pch temps are pretty high at 73*

it seems my ram at 3600Mhz cl14 or 4600Mhz cl16 1:1 or 1:2 1T or 2T .... gives me the same result


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## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> 
> the highest sp i ever heard from ES was 8x ..
> 
> so..


There is no so  My first 10900k benchmarked Cinebench @ 5600mhz  5.3ghz @ 1.3v in CB 20. SP isn't everything, but my SP 87 had better IMC


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## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> There is no so  My first 10900k benchmarked Cinebench @ 5600mhz  5.3ghz @ 1.3v in CB 20. SP isn't everything, but my SP 87 had better IMC


apex .. best mobo to gauge cpu imc

from my testing its always use lower sa/io 
quite a significant margin at that


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## MoeBen

Love that board had x299 apex in the past really good oc board


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## maltamonk

Temps?


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## MoeBen

maltamonk said:


> Temps?


5.2 all core 1.55V under 70C


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## maltamonk

What cooler?


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## MoeBen

maltamonk said:


> What cooler?


D5 Vario + dual 480mm rad EK Velocity Block


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## Nizzen

Better than nothing


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## maltamonk

MoeBen said:


> D5 Vario + dual 480mm rad EK Velocity Block


Thank you


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## MoeBen

maltamonk said:


> Thank you


np man


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## MoeBen

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2481301
> 
> Better than nothing



that ram speed must be an error :O


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## Cpfan2

Damn, that doesnt seem good.. Ive been stuck without computer for months for this. Could you please do a benchmark in shadow of the tomb raider demo (its free on steam) on lowest possible settings at 1080p and 720p with best possible daily gaming tweaks? I wonder if it can match these two (10900k is ht off). 





PCBuilding


KingFaris10's Site




kingfaris.co.uk





Thank you


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## MoeBen

Cpfan2 said:


> Damn, that doesnt seem good.. Ive been stuck without computer for months for this. Could you please do a benchmark in shadow of the tomb raider demo (its free on steam) on lowest possible settings at 1080p and 720p with best possible daily gaming tweaks? I wonder if it can match these two (10900k is ht off).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCBuilding
> 
> 
> KingFaris10's Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingfaris.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you


Will do 😉


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## menko2

MoeBen said:


> 5.2 all core 1.55V under 70C


1.55v seems like a lot coming from my 10900k at 1.32v for 5.1ghz.

Is this the new standard for the new arquitecture?


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## MoeBen

Seems like it we will know for sure when new bios with new microcode drops


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## menko2

MoeBen said:


> Seems like it we will know for sure when new bios with new microcode drops


Do you know if the 11700k and 11900k will be the same chip but better binned or there are other differences? It's hard to see being both 8core/16threats.


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## MoeBen

Of course it's better binned intel won't make 2 8cores chips it's the same thing just better silicon


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## menko2

MoeBen said:


> Of course it's better binned intel won't make 2 8cores chips it's the same thing just better silicon


I mean, is there another differences apart of being better binned? Since there is no extra cores there should be something worth to be considered a i9 instead of i7.


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## MoeBen

Same chip Higher Single core boost ... Better binned ... Should oc better same cache same pcos lanes it's really the same thing


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## geriatricpollywog

How does single core compare to Ryzen 5950X?


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## MoeBen

Very close can't max out the chip yet due to bios


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## domdtxdissar

Cpfan2 said:


> Damn, that doesnt seem good.. Ive been stuck without computer for months for this. Could you please do a benchmark in shadow of the tomb raider demo (its free on steam) on lowest possible settings at 1080p and 720p with best possible daily gaming tweaks? I wonder if it can match these two (10900k is ht off).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCBuilding
> 
> 
> KingFaris10's Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingfaris.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you


1080p high @ 265 fps average is easymode...









Please do a SotTR run, i'm interested in seeing the CPU game score for this 11700k


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## Arni90

menko2 said:


> I mean, is there another differences apart of being better binned? Since there is no extra cores there should be something worth to be considered a i9 instead of i7.


The i9 has TVB support, which might gain you a couple of multiplier ticks at low temperatures.


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## MoeBen

I actually used tv on my 11700k today lol


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## maltamonk

Anandtech got one and reviewed it









Intel Core i7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake







www.anandtech.com


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## MoeBen

maltamonk said:


> Anandtech got one and reviewed it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.anandtech.com


Yeah great review but no oc


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## geriatricpollywog

No OC, no Flight Simulator.


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## MoeBen

0451 said:


> No OC, no Flight Simulator.


I mean they even forgot to mention the future microcode update 🤔


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## menko2

I'm shocked that they went backwards regarding gaming because of the slower L3 cache and core to core latency.

If the review is right I'll be very disapointed.


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## MoeBen

menko2 said:


> I'm shocked that they went backwards regarding gaming because of the slower L3 cache and core to core latency.
> 
> If the review is right I'll be very disapointed.


Microcode update is supposed to improve cache performance .....


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## D-EJ915

MoeBen said:


> Microcode update is supposed to improve cache performance .....


Would that be the first MC update that improves performance? lol


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## cstkl1

Cpfan2 said:


> Damn, that doesnt seem good.. Ive been stuck without computer for months for this. Could you please do a benchmark in shadow of the tomb raider demo (its free on steam) on lowest possible settings at 1080p and 720p with best possible daily gaming tweaks? I wonder if it can match these two (10900k is ht off).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCBuilding
> 
> 
> KingFaris10's Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingfaris.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you


sotr is bugged for rocketlake

u need to run the version prior to RT update to see scaling. 

the current version 480p,720p,1080p same fps

run horizon zero dawn performance preset


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Yeah great review but no oc


bad review by a noob who wanted to be first
1. we can see they are literally useless without intel etc guide on the new architecture. 
2. dont know what board those dufus used, but asus you can do training on the mrc code .
3. they fail to understand all the added control on avx, power, core pll. 
4. also wth.. temp test / work etc they let 
cpu full power on a board we have no clue is running the correct loadline. but gaming you limit the cpu to 125w. 

Latency of core to core .. their testing is wrong. its the outer cores are weaker. middle are stronger. theres no latency bias. its clock ipc. 

theres many more . ppl here can test it thoroughly.

reviewers are so stupid nowadays because they dont update themself on board testing. example running the correct loadline checking the board adheres to it so no overvolting on load..

they also dont seem to understand the value of v/f table

lets see has msi/giga boards reach asus standards in z490..


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## xV Slayer

cstkl1 said:


> bad review by a noob who wanted to be first
> 1. we can see they are literally useless without intel etc guide on the new architecture.
> 2. dont know what board those dufus used, but asus you can do training on the mrc code .
> 3. they fail to understand all the added control on avx, power, core pll.
> 4. also wth.. temp test / work etc they let
> cpu full power on a board we have no clue is running the correct loadline. but gaming you limit the cpu to 125w.
> 
> Latency of core to core .. their testing is wrong. its the outer cores are weaker. middle are stronger. theres no latency bias. its clock ipc.
> 
> theres many more . ppl here can test it thoroughly.
> 
> reviewers are so stupid nowadays because they dont update themself on board testing. example running the correct loadline checking the board adheres to it so no overvolting on load..
> 
> they also dont seem to understand the value of v/f table
> 
> lets see has msi/giga boards reach asus standards in z490..


You seem to be very defensive about this CPU. The guy who reviewed it is not a noob. You seem to be directing a lot of hatred towards the facts of this CPU being slower in games than the 10900k. Since you seem to be an expert on how this new CPU works based on what I quoted can you show me some of your benchmarks with it?


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## geriatricpollywog

I’ll wait for gaming reviews after launch. I don’t play a lot of Cinebench or CPU-Z.


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## danny9428

I looked into the core-latency chart and I thought I misclicked into an AMD 5800X review...


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## cstkl1

0451 said:


> I’ll wait for gaming reviews after launch. I don’t play a lot of Cinebench or CPU-Z.


why the every core ipc important. because it shows based on silicon lottery where your preferred core is.. theres a variance in result. 

anyway seriously disappointed that the noob AT just for clicks.. did this instead of getting to know the cpu first. also shows how bad they are .


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## cstkl1

anyway ram oc folks. waiting for ppl to post this.. 5k etc and above.


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## OLDFATSHEEP

lol insider info 11900K stocks can only last for the launch day.


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## 113802

cstkl1 said:


> why the every core ipc important. because it shows based on silicon lottery where your preferred core is.. theres a variance in result.
> 
> anyway seriously disappointed that the noob AT just for clicks.. did this instead of getting to know the cpu first. also shows how bad they are .


Most of these chips are going to be sold to gamers/content creators who buy OEM desktops. That's how performance should be evaluated at stock. I'm still frustrated by Intel allowing motherboard manufacturers to enable MCE by default since Ivy Bridge. Just like every review since Ivy Bridge we're going to see inconsistent results due to the motherboard used. Usually MSI and Gigabyte bench better at stock even though Asus boards perform better when overclocking.


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## cstkl1

WannaBeOCer said:


> Most of these chips are going to be sold to gamers/content creators who buy OEM desktops. That's how performance should be evaluated at stock. I'm still frustrated by Intel allowing motherboard manufacturers to enable MCE by default since Ivy Bridge. Just like every review since Ivy Bridge we're going to see inconsistent results due to the motherboard used. Usually MSI and Gigabyte bench better at stock even though Asus boards perform better when overclocking.


that holds true for non K,

amd has spun marketing disinfo that a K cpu should be reviewed @ stock and the K monicker is meaningless. even the ram favours and who is imc limited. 

but bro i here only for one thing. see v/f of retail 11700k . from here we can see whether than i9 moniker and price tag worth it or not

how are they gonna spin marketing to sell that "i9" when its same no cores,

motherboard etc. we are now better informed. 
first thing u should always test is loadline. get the mohm values and compare with intel published spec
second is the trained values vs v/f vid of a cpu. 

i can tell u theres a HUGE diff in 10900k v/f behavior in regards of loadline on rocketlake

this is why i am super disappointed in AT. it shows pure noob ness. its was a critical info. they are actually no better than any dufus youtuber. 

every gen we are getting better mobos, better ways to evaluate products. these guys dont seem to know how to use these information


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## 113802

cstkl1 said:


> that holds true for non K,
> 
> amd has spun marketing disinfo that a K cpu should be reviewed as stock.
> 
> but bro i here only for one thing. see v/f of retail 11700k . from here we can see whether than i9 moniker and price tag worth it or not
> 
> how are they gonna spin marketing to sell that "i9" when its same no cores,


That's incorrect, practically all high end gaming and workstations desktops ship with K chips. This has nothing to do with AMD, reviews have always been reviewed at stock with one page dedicated for overclocking.

I'm sure the NDA prevented them from showing overclocking results.


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## maltamonk

What? The reason mainstream reviews don't prioritize oc is bc it's not a guarantee. Like you said...Silicon lottery.


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## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> 5.2 All Cores ....


Is that a 10700k or 11700k?
6749 for 5.2 ghz all cores looks a bit low?


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## cstkl1

@maltamonk @WannaBeOCer 
thats now. 

coming from when XE cpu and then K variant. its always been oc cpu
the non K was bclk overclovking

then amd stopped selling their locked and unlock cpu like intel and made them all unlock

thats when unlock cpu started being evaluated at stock. it then proceed to thermal/power spec, mce etc. and then now we have evolved to loadline and v/f . it seems the later part hasnt caught on yet. 
this is critical as it also puts amd cpu on spotlight as we can evaluate the actual "stock" performance instead of power limit etc


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## cstkl1

WannaBeOCer said:


> That's incorrect, practically all high end gaming and workstations desktops ship with K chips. This has nothing to do with AMD, reviews have always been reviewed at stock with one page dedicated for overclocking.
> 
> I'm sure the NDA prevented them from showing overclocking results.


nda performance numbers
doesnt state oc vs non oc.

they didnt show it cause they didnt have time chasing first click.


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## cstkl1

cpu running higher default loadline vs intel spec can differ by 10-15c fyi.
motherboards need to be evaluated properly

just stating power is stupid.


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## geriatricpollywog

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> lol insider info 11900K stocks can only last for the launch day.


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## 113802

cstkl1 said:


> @maltamonk @WannaBeOCer
> thats now.
> 
> coming when i cane from when XE cpu and then K variant. its always been oc cpu
> the non K was bclk overclovking
> 
> then amd stopped selling their locked and unlock cpu like intel and made them all unlock
> 
> thats when unlock cpu started being evaluated at stock. it then proceed to thermal/power spec, mce etc. and then now we have evolved to loadline and v/f . it seems the later part hasnt caught on yet.
> this is critical as it also puts amd cpu on spotlight as we can evaluate the actual "stock" performance instead of power limit etc


I know the history of CPUs and overclocking. I started with an Athlon XP 1600+ Thoroughbred that I unlocked using a silver conductive pen.

My point is that every single review since I started this hobby always focused on stock performance with one page dedicated for overclocking. That's due to overclocking being a lottery. If I depended on overclocking reviews that get shipped golden samples I'd be very disappointed right now. Every single review I've seen run their 9700K at 5.1Ghz.


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## cstkl1

WannaBeOCer said:


> I know the history of CPUs and overclocking. I started with an Athlon XP 1600+ Thoroughbred that I unlocked using a silver conductive pen.
> 
> My point is that every single review since I started this hobby always focused on stock performance with one page dedicated for overclocking. That's due to overclocking being a lottery. If I depended on overclocking reviews that get shipped golden samples I'd be very disappointed right now. Every single review I've seen run their 9700K at 5.1Ghz.


hey i get that. things evolve. but it favored one company. and now theres new information to put another company in da spotlight but reviewers are noob hence they need to be hand hold, and guided. if this was youtuber.. sure but AT? 

you will realize how much things AT missed in chasing for first clicks

anyways thats my last comment on this. 

i am hoping for more v/f ss.


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## danny9428

cstkl1 said:


> hey i get that. things evolve. but it favored one company. and now theres new information to put another company in da spotlight but reviewers are noob hence they need to be hand hold, and guided. if this was youtuber.. sure but AT?
> 
> you will realize how much things AT missed in chasing for first clicks
> 
> anyways thats my last comment on this.
> 
> i am hoping for more v/f ss.


I'd say wait for official release and we'll probably get a more accurate and in-depth reviews especially those that are new features.
These recieving unreleased chips are probably still using a beta-bios that couldn't leverage everything the new chip has


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## xV Slayer

danny9428 said:


> I'd say wait for official release and we'll probably get a more accurate and in-depth reviews especially those that are new features.
> These recieving unreleased chips are probably still using a beta-bios that couldn't leverage everything the new chip has


You honestly think a BIOS update is going to fix the design of the L3 cache and the core latency issues? I don't think so.


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## MoeBen

Falkentyne said:


> Is that a 10700k or 11700k?
> 6749 for 5.2 ghz all cores looks a bit low?


11700K these where the first scores i need to optimize my settings then re run


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## OLDFATSHEEP

0451 said:


>


Only for i9


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## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> 11700K these where the first scores i need to optimize my settings then re run


i gave up on my dual rank 5ghz CL19 ram.. .. 
either go find a better kit or just be satisfied with 4900

killed the OS 5 times, 2 nvme gone.
it doesnt happen at 4950.. none at 4975 .. still fine at 4988.. 
just 5ghz Tight..


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## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> i gave up on my dual rank 5ghz CL19 ram.. ..
> either go find a better kit or just be satisfied with 4900
> 
> killed the OS 5 times, 2 nvme gone.
> it doesnt happen at 4950.. none at 4975 .. still fine at 4988..
> just 5ghz Tight..


That's not bad for now ... I capped at 4800 c19


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## Arni90

xV Slayer said:


> You honestly think a BIOS update is going to fix the design of the L3 cache and the core latency issues? I don't think so.


I doubt they can improve the latency in clock cycles, but a bump to the ring clock might result in a slight boost, judging by people's screenshots it seems to be running at 4.0 GHz stock


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## MoeBen

Arni90 said:


> I doubt they can improve the latency in clock cycles, but a bump to the ring clock might result in a slight boost, judging by people's screenshots it seems to be running at 4.0 GHz stock


I think both INTEL and AMD are sandbagging hard


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## domdtxdissar

At least Rocket lake is winning in the userbenchmark ranking


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## danny9428

xV Slayer said:


> You honestly think a BIOS update is going to fix the design of the L3 cache and the core latency issues? I don't think so.


Tbf I'm kinda shocked to see Intel may have nerfed their strength on their 11-gen cpus when it comes to winning it's main rival (AMD chiplets that are weak when it comes to absoulte core-to-core latency) but who knows? Maybe Intel has some magical power that allows them to undercut their tiny little L3 into something else


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## kairi_zeroblade

0451 said:


> I’ll wait for gaming reviews after launch. I don’t play a lot of Cinebench or CPU-Z.


the 20ns club members gonna hate you for this..not to mention the 30ns and 40ns..lmao..


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## MoeBen

Gaming is good hitting over 400fps cod modern warfare


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## Nizzen

danny9428 said:


> Tbf I'm kinda shocked to see Intel may have nerfed their strength on their 11-gen cpus when it comes to winning it's main rival (AMD chiplets that are weak when it comes to absoulte core-to-core latency) but who knows? Maybe Intel has some magical power that allows them to undercut their tiny little L3 into something else


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## menko2

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2481428
> 
> View attachment 2481429


Thank you for the benchmarks.

Here the L3 cache don't look too bad right? 

Or maybe the latency between cores is more important for gaming. 

I hope 11700k or 11900k are better for gaming than 10th gen.


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## geriatricpollywog

kairi_zeroblade said:


> the 20ns club members gonna hate you for this..not to mention the 30ns and 40ns..lmao..


I’m used to the hate from the i9 elite. I don’t play a lot of Aida64 either, but I guess I’m in the 30ns club.


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## Nizzen

Optane 900p performance on Rocketlake:
Looks like 4k random read QD=1 is OK


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## Cpfan2

MoeBen said:


> Gaming is good hitting over 400fps cod modern warfare


How much in warzone? 5950x gets 230-240 on avg


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## danny9428

0451 said:


> I’m used to the hate from the i9 elite. I don’t play a lot of Aida64 either, but I guess I’m in the 30ns club.


That is some crazy clocks there. Pretty rough the 11-gen i9 has to fight with 2 less cores against 10900k and match those clocks


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## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> Gaming is good hitting over 400fps cod modern warfare


MW has a 300 FPS cap. How did you remove that?


----------



## MoeBen

Falkentyne said:


> MW has a 300 FPS cap. How did you remove that?


There's no cap if you set you fps to unlimited 😁


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> Optane 900p performance on Rocketlake:
> Looks like 4k random read QD=1 is OK


That's a good score for the Optane. Straight to the CPU without passing through chipset is noticeable.

Did you compare the 11700k vs the 10th gen in games? Anandtech review is making the 11700k look very bad in gaming.


----------



## Cpfan2

I also vouch for SOTTR 1080p and 720p benchmarks with proper memory tuning.


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan2 said:


> I also vouch for SOTTR 1080p and 720p benchmarks with proper memory tuning.


----------



## Cpfan2

Nizzen said:


>


I forgot that sottr is bugged for rkl at the moment, someone mentioned it. "Only" 40 frames behind 10th gen i9.


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan2 said:


> I forgot that sottr is bugged for rkl at the moment, someone mentioned it. "Only" 40 frames behind 10th gen i9.


Do you mind post a good result of 10900k? My 10900k is outside the socket here now lol.
11700k installed


----------



## Cpfan2

Nizzen said:


> Do you mind post a good result of 10900k? My 10900k is outside the socket here now lol.
> 11700k installed


Ht off
Intel vs AMD - SotTR 

Also here, only demo version @ 720p results were allowed. 






lara BENCH 2.0 - Google Drive







docs.google.com


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan2 said:


> Ht off
> Intel vs AMD - SotTR
> 
> Also here, only demo version @ 720p results were allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lara BENCH 2.0 - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


I like to see the screenshots, so I can see all numbers. Wonder if 2080ti is faster in 720/1080p?


----------



## Cpfan2

Nizzen said:


> I like to see the screenshots, so I can see all numbers. Wonder if 2080ti is faster in 720/1080p?


I dunno


















720p low


----------



## domdtxdissar

Highest ive seen for Intel



> 10900k @5.5ghz, 2x16gb 4600c16, rtx 3090 2160mhz-2175mhz.
> 
> 5.2 cache. Sp104.
> 
> 1.35v llc8 or 1.55v llc6.











iam at 284 average with zen3


----------



## domdtxdissar

Cpfan2 said:


> Also here, only demo version @ 720p results were allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lara BENCH 2.0 - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


Where is this data from ? i have higher numbers for 5950x in free version from steam also..


----------



## Cpfan2

domdtxdissar said:


> Where is this data from ? i have higher numbers for 5950x in free version from steam also..


I found this on russian hardware board, anyone can participate in it.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Can someone with an 11700k try with these settings?


----------



## domdtxdissar

0451 said:


> Can someone with an 11700k try with these settings?


Neither resolution nor game quality matter for the "CPU Game" score in the SotTB benchmark, so there is no point to fiddle around with different settings..
It dont matter if you run [email protected] or [email protected], you get the same "CPU Game" score either way (within run to run variance)

Same CPU Game score at 1080p, 1440p and 2160p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
Same CPU Game score at 1440p and 2160p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
Same CPU Game score at 1080p and 5120p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
My own 1080p medium vs 1080p high here:













(can link more examples if necessary)

The only thing that matters for this bench is free steam version(patch15) vs paid steam version(patch19) which have a average ~20 fps difference in "CPU Game" numbers.

Lastly, i also did a run with one CCD disabled on my CPU to simulate a 5800x with 8 cores.. (something to compare against the 8core 11700k )


----------



## encrypted11

How's the memory controller performance like?

Differences in SKL-S derivatives (CFL-S, CML-S etc with a common power rail across cores than SKL HEDT derivatives) vs RKL in frequency per core control? Maybe BIOS pics on OC/ Voltage tabs?

I've been OCing with SpeedShift and C states on my Coffeelake.


----------



## Falkentyne

0451 said:


> Can someone with an 11700k try with these settings?
> 
> View attachment 2481469


I wish I had this game....


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> Neither resolution nor game quality matter for the "CPU Game" score in the SotTB benchmark, so there is no point to fiddle around with different settings..
> It dont matter if you run [email protected] or [email protected], you get the same "CPU Game" score either way (within run to run variance)
> 
> Same CPU Game score at 1080p, 1440p and 2160p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
> Same CPU Game score at 1440p and 2160p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
> Same CPU Game score at 1080p and 5120p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
> My own 1080p medium vs 1080p high here:
> 
> (can link more examples if necessary)
> 
> The only thing that matters for this bench is free steam version(patch15) vs paid steam version(patch19) which have a average ~20 fps difference in "CPU Game" numbers.
> 
> Lastly, i also did a run with one CCD disabled on my CPU to simulate a 5800x with 8 cores.. (something to compare against the 8core 11700k )


Didn't know that, thanks for the info.



Falkentyne said:


> I wish I had this game....


I was using the free Steam demo.


----------



## Falkentyne

0451 said:


> Didn't know that, thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> I was using the free Steam demo.


So this game has a bug on Rocket Lake with with the FPS or something? And it works correctly on a 10900k (or any skylake core?)


----------



## Nizzen

Fact of the day: 8 core is garbage in 2021 
RocketLake should have been 10900k with better IPC and better IMC. So 10900k with 5000mhz c17 b-die easy with 10-12 core and 30% better ipc.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Steam free trial:


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Fact of the day: 8 core is garbage in 2021
> RocketLake should have been 10900k with better IPC and better IMC. So 10900k with 5000mhz c17 b-die easy with 10-12 core and 30% better ipc.


delid da cpu bro. all shall be revealed. btw becareful ya. theres like transistors at the edge of the hsf. or just wait for roman


----------



## jomama22

domdtxdissar said:


> Neither resolution nor game quality matter for the "CPU Game" score in the SotTB benchmark, so there is no point to fiddle around with different settings..
> It dont matter if you run [email protected] or [email protected], you get the same "CPU Game" score either way (within run to run variance)
> 
> Same CPU Game score at 1080p, 1440p and 2160p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
> Same CPU Game score at 1440p and 2160p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
> Same CPU Game score at 1080p and 5120p @ Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
> My own 1080p medium vs 1080p high here:
> View attachment 2481470
> View attachment 2481471
> 
> (can link more examples if necessary)
> 
> The only thing that matters for this bench is free steam version(patch15) vs paid steam version(patch19) which have a average ~20 fps difference in "CPU Game" numbers.
> 
> Lastly, i also did a run with one CCD disabled on my CPU to simulate a 5800x with 8 cores.. (something to compare against the 8core 11700k )
> View attachment 2481472


So is the free version recording higher numbers or the paid version? Ones I'm running with paid seem to be lower than expected.


----------



## heavyrain

MoeBen said:


> Getting there im at LLC 5 ... im getting a 2nd one monday maybe monday i win the SL
> 
> View attachment 2481262


all core @5.3Ghz need 1.58v?


----------



## heavyrain

MoeBen said:


> 5.2 All Cores ....


what is the voltage


----------



## domdtxdissar

jomama22 said:


> So is the free version recording higher numbers or the paid version? Ones I'm running with paid seem to be lower than expected.


Free version is 20-25 fps lower in average fps compared to paid version.

We are benching SotTR on this Norwegian forum: Google Translate

But we only care about CPU Game numbers, so we are using resolution modifier to remove the GPU bottleneck

My latest submission was for this thread: Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark
But they demanded the game setting to be "highest" for whatever reason (wanted GPU bottleneck), and for those runs i didn't use resolution modifier

My highest CPU game score in free version(505.0_64) is 261 average fps
My highest CPU game score in paid version(298.0_64) is 284 average fps


----------



## cstkl1

11700k now available here.. for purchase.. in MY


----------



## cstkl1

Intel Imitates AMD's Memory Overclocking Approach With Rocket Lake CPUs


Team Blue may have its own Infinity Fabric-like feature.




www.tomshardware.com





lets update so toms sillyness to state "news"

they could have read this months ago as its on 10th gen mobile spec data sheet page 69


its 1:1 with mem controller with dram effective speed

meaning ram 3866 mem controller is 3866..
not 1933. the mem controller has stepping of 266
you can only use ram divider 100:133
so stupid to even think its the same as ryzen 
u can check this 11th gen mobile specsheet

theres no limit on 1:1 but it comes at very high sa/io

1:2 has zero bandwidth loss infact its higher. 
u get hit in latency. 

turnaround timings lowered so its performance boosted. hint RTL is 30s, 40s..iol is eol


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> 11700k now available here.. for purchase.. in MY


I don't have access to buy in Spain yet. Unless I use ebay.

Still I'm not sure what to do since I use the pc in gaming and the results until now are pretty bad for what i expected.

I don't understand why intel killed the gaming advantage it had over AMD.

I hope now you guys who have the 11700k can investigate more about gaming comparing the the 10th gen.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I don't have access to buy in Spain yet. Unless I use ebay.
> 
> Still I'm not sure what to do since I use the pc in gaming and the results until now are pretty bad for what i expected.
> 
> I don't understand why intel killed the gaming advantage it had over AMD.
> 
> I hope now you guys who have the 11700k can investigate more about gaming comparing the the 10th gen.


they didnt. 

you should ask why reviewers so stupid.

ask yourself what is the inherent flaw of current 10th "skylake". any gamer can answer. or just lurking here you will notice a trend popping up reporting an issue that @Falkentyne found out years ago

11th doesnt have it


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> they didnt.
> 
> you should ask why reviewers so stupid.
> 
> ask yourself what is the inherent flaw of current 10th "skylake". any gamer can answer. or just lurking here you will notice a trend popping up reporting an issue that @Falkentyne found out years ago
> 
> 11th doesnt have it


Thank you man.

So is gaming better with the 11700k? I have been reading here the posts and the review from anandtech. I see a mix bag of results.

If you can put a clear response it can be very helpful for many of us.

I have the Maximus xiii hero (z590) with a 10900k but waiting for a clear picture of what to expect with either 11700k or 11900k for gaming.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Thank you man.
> 
> So is gaming better with the 11700k? I have been reading here the posts and the review from anandtech. I see a mix bag of results.
> 
> If you can put a clear response it can be very helpful for many of us.
> 
> I have the Maximus xiii hero (z590) with a 10900k but waiting for a clear picture of what to expect with either 11700k or 11900k for gaming.


distro told me 11700k alot but 11900k is limited. 

i go with rocket-lake for gaming for that stability. 

performance intel will release the guide to handheld reviewers who dont seem to know anything about bios . figures. idiots dont even know rtl when its been there like since i7 920 when elpida hypers ddr3 rams made it apparent why its important.


----------



## cstkl1

from the SS. hmm the i9 vs i7 v/f

really wanna see retail


----------



## cstkl1

see how lazy some asses are.. hardware unbox.. had the cpu for a month. he just tested it one day
will just do game benches nearer to release date..

all lazy ppl


----------



## MoeBen

heavyrain said:


> what is the voltage


1.5v


----------



## Kana Chan

Any multiplayer games to bench?


----------



## MoeBen

Kana Chan said:


> Any multiplayer games to bench?


For now I only tested CS GO and COD MW Multiplayer ... so far better fps than 10900K OC @ 5.3 .... I'm getting a 2nd 11700K on Monday ... I will test more games ideally I would've waited for L3 Cache bios fix


----------



## MoeBen

Surprise Surprise


----------



## MoeBen

Issue was a ****ty EVGA Power supply that mined all its life now for some reason chip need less voltage to clock higer with new Seasonic Titanium Psu :O


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> Surprise Surprise
> View attachment 2481587


Memspeed now?
I got 1:2 mode work now with high speed memory. Had to use single rank 
4533mhz atm


----------



## MoeBen

zero mem optimization on this run just 4000mhz cl 16 16 16 36    ... will optimize and rerun running cine-bench R20 now


----------



## MoeBen




----------



## MoeBen

This shows how important a good quality PSU is LOL !!!


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> zero mem optimization on this run just 4000mhz cl 16 16 16 36    ... will optimize and rerun running cine-bench R20 now


So running 1:2?


----------



## MoeBen

I think so 1:2 but its on auto I did no ram tweaking what's so ever


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> I think so 1:2 but its on auto I did no ram tweaking what's so ever


You have a "few" hours of work ahead of you <3


----------



## MoeBen

Yup Coffe Time !!!


----------



## MoeBen

Nizzen said:


> Memspeed now?
> I got 1:2 mode work now with high speed memory. Had to use single rank
> 4533mhz atm


can you post you exact timmings ?


----------



## MoeBen

Got 4800Mhz to boot 5066 won't boot  Still sloppy timings


----------



## Kana Chan

Do you have any RTS games with custom mods/maps? ( At least 20-30x the usual amount of units vs the standard game )


MoeBen said:


> Issue was a ****ty EVGA Power supply that mined all its life now for some reason chip need less voltage to clock higer with new Seasonic Titanium Psu :O


Which EVGA psu was it?


----------



## MoeBen

no rts games psu was EVGA 850 G3


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> can you post you exact timmings ?


Just started tuning, so the performance sux 

That epic low write 😂










Still MILES away from my 10900k....


----------



## MoeBen

That's what I call Winning the silicon lottery (10900K) :O


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> That's what I call Winning the silicon lottery (10900K) :O


It's ok. Direct die cooled pretty much unlocked the performance


----------



## MoeBen

You're tempting me I have a deliding kit .... maybe I can torture that 11700K a bit more LOL


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> You're tempting me I have a deliding kit .... maybe I can torture that 11700K a bit more LOL


You first 
I'm ready with Der8auer delid tool 

11900k better pop off with insane imc 1:1 memory, if not there is zero reason to buy it. 8 core is already pretty lame


----------



## MoeBen

Alright when I get 2nd chip tomorrow we shall see


----------



## MoeBen

You think intel was dumb enough to put back TIM under the IHS ?


----------



## MoeBen

These Tech medias are high as **** lately its been 20 years intel had this LOL


----------



## YaqY

Has anyone here managed to hit 5000 + on single rank rams 1:2 mode on rocketlake? Saw this image of single rank bdie running memtest at 5066 1T on what looks to be evidently a rocketlake cpu. Perhaps the bios/microcode isn't ready for people with retail 11700k's at the moment which i hope to be the case limiting the 1:2 speeds.


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> These Tech medias are high as **** lately its been 20 years intel had this LOL
> View attachment 2481670


what ppl dont and bet u reviewers who dont game wont know

rocketlake has no flaws. 
zero game crashes. 

this is why better standards in checking loadlines of motherboard, voltage delivery of vrm etc is the way forward in gauging motherboard. just google hero vs strix and u see 99% click seeking sites thinks its the same. 

these guys better get up, do actual work for all the free stuff they get. evolve. 
this also will shine a light on amd instability issues


----------



## cstkl1

just look at hardwareunbox attitude
got da cpu a month ago
ran some synth
boxed it and will wait till nearer nda

zero testing zero curiosity of bios. 
this is where the industry is at. lazy


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> 1.5v


try llc2 start with 4.8, 5, 5.1 etc check the vmin vcore auto


----------



## Astral85

Is this legit? 1001 single core, 9991 multi:









Intel Core i7-11700K Rocket Lake CPU Already Sold To Customers, Various Performance Benchmarks at Stock & Overclocked Speeds Leaked


After being listed online just a few days ago, Intel's Core i7-11700K Rocket Lake CPU has landed in the hands of its first customers.




wccftech.com


----------



## SteveMcQueen

That's AVX512, not the normal bench.


----------



## danny9428

cstkl1 said:


> just look at hardwareunbox attitude
> got da cpu a month ago
> ran some synth
> boxed it and will wait till nearer nda
> 
> zero testing zero curiosity of bios.
> this is where the industry is at. lazy


They're in NDA (although not with intel but with a distributor), it isn't like they can speak any from the results they've got...


----------



## Nizzen

Got a new testbios for Apex z490 now from Shamino. Will test this tonight 😁


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> Got a new testbios for Apex z490 now from Shamino. Will test this tonight 😁


Any chance you can share this bios Nizzen, have a couple mates on the apex that need a new bios for retail chips.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> what ppl dont and bet u reviewers who dont game wont know
> 
> rocketlake has no flaws.
> zero game crashes.
> 
> this is why better standards in checking loadlines of motherboard, voltage delivery of vrm etc is the way forward in gauging motherboard. just google hero vs strix and u see 99% click seeking sites thinks its the same.
> 
> these guys better get up, do actual work for all the free stuff they get. evolve.
> this also will shine a light on amd instability issues


Please write coherent sentences with clear intent and meaning. I shouldn't have to interpret the meaning of your posts.

Rocket Lake has some obvious flaws: the L1 and L2 cache have both gotten more latency (and is probably not fixable by microcode), and the L3 cache has also increased latency (might be fixable by microcode). Judging by the results achieved here, the ring bus is also limited in transfer speed and latency compared to Comet Lake. Power consumption is also beginning to be an issue, even if the efficiency isn't worse than Skylake.

There's also bound to be undiscovered security issues with Rocket Lake, just like any modern microarchitecture.
As for zero game crashes, there's no way to prove this.

A motherboard's loadline is inherently defined by Intel specification, and not different between Maximus and Strix lines. The big difference lies in VCore measurement, and extra overclocking features like safe boot.

AMD instability issues (whatever they might be), aren't really the topic of this thread.


----------



## slayer6288

Astral85 said:


> Is this legit? 1001 single core, 9991 multi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i7-11700K Rocket Lake CPU Already Sold To Customers, Various Performance Benchmarks at Stock & Overclocked Speeds Leaked
> 
> 
> After being listed online just a few days ago, Intel's Core i7-11700K Rocket Lake CPU has landed in the hands of its first customers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wccftech.com


this is how they fool ya look at which test they used lol


----------



## slayer6288

Arni90 said:


> Please write coherent sentences with clear intent and meaning. I shouldn't have to interpret the meaning of your posts.
> 
> Rocket Lake has some obvious flaws: the L1 and L2 cache have both gotten more latency (and is probably not fixable by microcode), and the L3 cache has also increased latency (might be fixable by microcode). Judging by the results achieved here, the ring bus is also limited in transfer speed and latency compared to Comet Lake. Power consumption is also beginning to be an issue, even if the efficiency isn't worse than Skylake.
> 
> There's also bound to be undiscovered security issues with Rocket Lake, just like any modern microarchitecture.
> As for zero game crashes, there's no way to prove this.
> 
> A motherboard's loadline is inherently defined by Intel specification, and not different between Maximus and Strix lines. The big difference lies in VCore measurement, and extra overclocking features like safe boot.
> 
> AMD instability issues (whatever they might be), aren't really the topic of this thread.


that dude is ****ing brain dead intel shill dont even waste ur time reading his trash just block and move on I know who ur talking about without even having to see it


----------



## MoeBen

Someone asked for SOTTR Bench .... Running 5.1 AC


----------



## MoeBen

11700K vs 5900X Latency test Same ram same settings


----------



## Cpfan2

I wonder how much cooler the 11700k is compared to 10900k at same voltage


----------



## Cpfan2

MoeBen said:


> Someone asked for SOTTR Bench .... Running 5.1 AC
> View attachment 2481738


Seems like sottr doesnt work properly on 11th gen. You should test warzone @ 1080p/720p low.


----------



## MoeBen

Cpfan2 said:


> I wonder how much cooler the 11700k is compared to 10900k at same voltage


ain't cooler lol


----------



## MoeBen

Cpfan2 said:


> Seems like sottr doesnt work properly on 11th gen. You should test warzone @ 1080p/720p low.


I tried WZ but fps still under my 5800x/5900x 1080p low


----------



## Talon2016

MoeBen said:


> Someone asked for SOTTR Bench .... Running 5.1 AC
> View attachment 2481738





MoeBen said:


> I tried WZ but still under my 5800x/5900x 1080p low


 Slower than your AMD in Warzone?


----------



## MoeBen

Yup and slower than my 10900K


----------



## Talon2016

MoeBen said:


> Yup and slower than my 10900K


*** Intel. Is this a joke? Are the rumors true that it's simply a BIOS issue or did Intel seriously release a product that is going backwards in performance. They have never done something like that and it makes no sense as to why they would do that. Wouldn't they just scrap the damn thing.


----------



## Cpfan2

MoeBen said:


> I tried WZ but fps still under my 5800x/5900x 1080p low


Must be memory or latency releated problem. Even 9900k is faster than 5800x in wz, and from what ive seen 5800x is equal to 5900x in this game.

I would not benchmark anything until intel fixes latency.


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> *** Intel. Is this a joke? Are the rumors true that it's simply a BIOS issue or did Intel seriously release a product that is going backwards in performance. They have never done something like that and it makes no sense as to why they would do that. Wouldn't they just scrap the damn thing.


So far it ain't looking great but keep in mind this is not a released CPU look at the AIDA64 latency tests I posted it's not bad its just not polished yet. L3 cache read write are garbage which is probably going to get fixed in a Bios/Microcode update ... after playing around with the chip I think they limited the 11700K OC potential since 11900K is 8c/16t. Only thing we can do is wait and see


----------



## MoeBen

Cpfan2 said:


> Must be memory or latency releated problem. Even 9900k is faster than 5800x in wz, and from what ive seen 5800x is equal to 5900x in this game.
> 
> I would not benchmark anything until intel fixes latency.


Yup totally agree


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> *** Intel. Is this a joke? Are the rumors true that it's simply a BIOS issue or did Intel seriously release a product that is going backwards in performance. They have never done something like that and it makes no sense as to why they would do that. Wouldn't they just scrap the damn thing.


Yes Intel IS a joke 

I even got bios today from Shamino, and I tried to overclock memory and cpu/ring "to the max"
It's impossible to fix Rocketlake. Well it's pretty fast with 3733c14 tweaked (why not faster than 3733mhz *** !) in 1:1 mode with 5.1 ghz all core, but it's not even close to "max" overclocked 10900k in games with 4700c17 memory.
L1 cache is about 20% slower ! than 10900k LOL ***?
I can run 4533c14 1:2 mode, but still latency is pretty bad and bandwidth is average. Maybe I'm not a pro Rocketlake overclocker, but it looks like it's unfixable.


----------



## MoeBen

Nizzen said:


> Yes Intel IS a joke
> 
> I even got bios today from Shamino, and I tried to overclock memory and cpu/ring "to the max"
> It's impossible to fix Rocketlake. Well it's pretty fast with 3733c14 tweaked (why not faster than 3733mhz *** !) in 1:1 mode with 5.1 ghz all core, but it's not even close to "max" overclocked 10900k in games with 4700c17 memory.
> L1 cache is about 20% slower ! than 10900k LOL ***?
> I can run 4533c14 1:2 mode, but still latency is pretty bad and bandwidth is average. Maybe I'm not a pro Rocketlake overclocker, but it looks like it's unfixable.


When you say Bios you mean microcode updated Bios ?


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> When you say Bios you mean microcode updated Bios ?


The bios says 0009, so it's a new bios. Biosdate is today


----------



## domdtxdissar

MoeBen said:


> 11700K vs 5900X Latency test Same ram same settings


You should disable one CCD on the 5900x also, that will really show those AMD fanatics whos boss when their precious 12 core is losing in multithreaded apps against the 11700k   😇

(other secret tip if you want to lower the performance of the zen3 peasant CPU even more, SET BASECLOCK TO SOMETHING LIKE 98MHZ AND PPT LIMIT TO 35 WATT! cant wait to see their faces!!!111one😎)



Spoiler: dont click



yes i'm being sarcastic..


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> The bios says 0009, so it's a new bios. Biosdate is today


Did it actually fix anything or improve things?


----------



## JoeRambo

Nizzen said:


> It's impossible to fix Rocketlake. Well it's pretty fast with 3733c14 tweaked (why not faster than 3733mhz *** !) in 1:1 mode with 5.1 ghz all core, but it's not even close to "max" overclocked 10900k in games with 4700c17 memory.


If 1:1 mode won't go above 3733, RocketLake is DoA for memory OC community. I doubt anyone around here wants DDR4 5000 with sweet 50ns of Aida latency.


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> Did it actually fix anything or improve things?


Way faster memorytraining, and xmp with 4000c17 singlerank worked, 4266c17 dualrank worked. It didn't work on last bios. So it's better but it didn't fix the main problem. 3733 1:1 is WAY too low. 1:2 and the latency is too high, even at 4533 (max on 2x16 here)


----------



## Nizzen

JoeRambo said:


> If 1:1 mode won't go above 3733, RocketLake is DoA for memory OC community. I doubt anyone around here wants DDR4 5000 with sweet 50ns of Aida latency.


reposting my 10900k to compare.
Impossible to beat with Rocketlake atm.


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> Way faster memorytraining, and xmp with 4000c17 singlerank worked, 4266c17 dualrank worked. It didn't work on last bios. So it's better but it didn't fix the main problem. 3733 1:1 is WAY too low. 1:2 and the latency is too high, even at 4533 (max on 2x16 here)


PCIE 4.0 ?


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> PCIE 4.0 ?


Pci-e 4.0 works on z490 apex with my 3090 strix. I don't have a pci-e 4.0 ssd to test.


----------



## JoeRambo

Does ASRock Timing Configurator work with new chips? 4.03 or 4.04 ? Would be interesting to see how things look in 1:1 and 2:1 if it does.


----------



## MoeBen

Nizzen said:


> reposting my 10900k to compare.
> Impossible to beat with Rocketlake atm.


What's your SP prediction for this chip ?


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> What's your SP prediction for this chip ?


70 with this bios. Was 63 with the beta bios


----------



## MoeBen

Nizzen said:


> 70 with this bios. Was 63 with the beta bios


Ok **** it I'm deliding mine direct die time


----------



## Nizzen

Ignore the write, but this is sad...








XMP 4266c17 2x16


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> Way faster memorytraining, and xmp with 4000c17 singlerank worked, 4266c17 dualrank worked. It didn't work on last bios. So it's better but it didn't fix the main problem. 3733 1:1 is WAY too low. 1:2 and the latency is too high, even at 4533 (max on 2x16 here)


What if you raise base clock to 125 MHz (and lower CPU/ring multipliers)? That should make the 3733 strap hit 4666 MHz


----------



## GanjaSMK

So I'm no memory expert but here's my 10850K with 3200c14 @ 3800 15-15-15 (auto on rest) for reference/comparison: 










I (obviously) get better results on the cache/mem when I don't have a bunch of other stuff running but whatevs lol.


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> What if you raise base clock to 125 MHz (and lower CPU/ring multipliers)? That should make the 3733 strap hit 4666 MHz


On 1:1 ?


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> On 1:1 ?


Actually I think that is the way it worked on my old X99. I had to use a different strap to hit higher clocks. It was also Ring Bus. That would be interesting if that worked.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> On 1:1 ?


That's the idea: you stay in gear 1, and raise the base clock to reach a higher memory controller clock speed. It doesn't have to be 125 MHz, but that should give you a bit of breathing room.

The PCIe clock should be separately tweakable on an Apex if I remember correctly, so keep that at stock 100 MHz.


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> That's the idea: you stay in gear 1, and raise the base clock to reach a higher memory controller clock speed. It doesn't have to be 125 MHz, but that should give you a bit of breathing room.
> 
> The PCIe clock should be separately tweakable on an Apex if I remember correctly, so keep that at stock 100 MHz.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2481771


Well, can't you hit 4000 MHz at this point? Or does it stop booting?


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> Well, can't you hit 4000 MHz at this point? Or does it stop booting?


Don't like higher. Looks like there is a hardwall @ 3733. A bit higher, and there is no boot.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> Don't like higher. Looks like there is a hardwall @ 3733. A bit higher, and there is no boot.


That's quite disappointing. Sounds like Rocket Lake fails the pre-launch test.


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> That's quite disappointing. Sounds like Rocket Lake fails the pre-launch test.


Atleast I tried to get it fast. I think it's even slower than my old 9900k 5.3ghz with 4600c16 memory.

Ugg!

Make a cpu with "20%" better ipc, but nerfing it with 20% higher latency 😆

Almost zen 2 😅


----------



## MoeBen

i really hope they limited them until launch ....


----------



## ogider

Maybe they prep ground for alder ddr5. easier is to show gain from ddr5 vs rocket with max 3733 than rocket with 4600c16


----------



## cstkl1

52 post. all idiotic. zero info. guess thrash doesnt realize he is useless.
he know who he is. just ignore.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Don't like higher. Looks like there is a hardwall @ 3733. A bit higher, and there is no boot.


3866 can. 4k the 50:50

dont forget sa/io requirement is high


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> On 1:1 ?


1:2 default cmd MRC is 1T
setting 2T = 4T


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> Maybe they prep ground for alder ddr5. easier is to show gain from ddr5 vs rocket with max 3733 than rocket with 4600c16


alderlake afaik has two imc
ddr5 uses two
ddr4 uses one which nerfs the cpu


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Atleast I tried to get it fast. I think it's even slower than my old 9900k 5.3ghz with 4600c16 memory.
> 
> Ugg!
> 
> Make a cpu with "20%" better ipc, but nerfing it with 20% higher latency 😆
> 
> Almost zen 2 😅


suspect everything is prelude to ddr5.
theres sagv for rocketlake. 

they took it out now cause its meaningless for desktop pc users.


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> Atleast I tried to get it fast. I think it's even slower than my old 9900k 5.3ghz with 4600c16 memory.
> 
> Ugg!
> 
> Make a cpu with "20%" better ipc, but nerfing it with 20% higher latency 😆
> 
> Almost zen 2 😅


Any links to that bios  ? Have some people i know on the Apex not enjoying the current 2004 Beta Bios.


----------



## MoeBen

yup a z590 hero bios would be great too


----------



## MoeBen

Stock CB runs 11700K


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Stock CB runs 11700K


is your fav core on the outer 0/1/6/7 or middle??


----------



## MoeBen

Core 2 and Core 3 are the 2 Best ones


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Core 2 and Core 3 are the 2 Best ones


lucky
those are stronger clock to clock
the outer ones are weaker


----------



## MoeBen

I'm having a hard time getting 5.3 all core stable tho !


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> I'm having a hard time getting 5.3 all core stable tho !


do u mind showing your vmin for 5.2 prime fft 80 min/max avx disable

atm your 11700k looks pretty good.


----------



## MoeBen

I never tried to disable AVX ...and I run vcore override 1.495 for 5.2 and 1.565 for 5.3


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> I never tried to disable AVX ...and I run vcore override 1.495 for 5.2 and 1.565 for 5.3


its to gauge against your v/f and also to see hero vmin

avx disable is in prime.. not bios


----------



## MoeBen

Where can i see the value ?


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Where can i see the value ?


hwinfo vcore min
thats your voltage in die sense.


----------



## MoeBen

Alright I'm waiting for my 2nd chip ill post both tomorrow 

Cheers !


----------



## Groove2013

MoeBen said:


> Gaming is good hitting over 400fps cod modern warfare





MoeBen said:


> Someone asked for SOTTR Bench .... Running 5.1 AC
> View attachment 2481738





MoeBen said:


> I tried WZ but fps still under my 5800x/5900x 1080p low


Please, redo games benchmarks on your 11700K vs. 10900K and 5800/5900X, but this time at max 3600 or 3733 MHz CL14 1:1, instead of >4000 MHz 1:2 and report your findings here again.

Should be much better.

There is 0 benefits from increased RAM frequency/bandwidth, when memory controller is slowing down everything in 1:2 mode.

Numbers just for numbers doesn't bring anything.

Thx


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Please, redo games benchmarks on your 11700K vs. 10900K and 5800/5900X, but this time at max 3600 or 3733 MHz CL14 1:1, instead of >4000 MHz 1:2 and report your findings here again.
> 
> Should be much better.
> 
> Thx


no diff.

unless you use the pre patch rtx version for SOTR. only game that bugged


----------



## MoeBen

Groove2013 said:


> Please, redo games benchmarks on your 11700K vs. 10900K and 5800/5900X, but this time at max 3600 or 3733 MHz CL14 1:1, instead of >4000 MHz 1:2 and report your findings here again.
> 
> Should be much better.
> 
> Thx


I did test multiple ram setting did not really affect performance in WZ ... I think its cache related


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> no diff.
> 
> unless you use the pre patch rtx version for SOTR. only game that bugged


There was a game patch? The game is broken now?


----------



## MoeBen

Anyway i will redo game benchs in 1:1 3733 CL 14 14 14 30 1T


----------



## Groove2013

I'm also planning to buy RL with Maximus XIII Hero, but I can wait for official reviews and several BIOS versions before doing so.
Already have 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 waiting here.

If RAM latency and max frequency + cache performance won't be improved, I'll buy a 5800X with Crosshair VIII Dark Hero instead.


----------



## MoeBen

Groove2013 said:


> I'm also planning to buy RL with Maximus XIII Hero, but I can wait for official reviews and several BIOS versions before doing so.
> Already have 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 waiting here.
> 
> If RAM latency and max frequency + cache performance won't be improved, I'll buy a 5800X with Crosshair VIII Dark Hero instead.


Had a dark hero great board ... Hopefully microcode update fixes RL


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> There was a game patch? The game is broken now?


when the game launched.. just before it was patched for RT.
thats the only version if u want to compare.. other than that its bugged for RKL 480p, 720p, 1080p.. all same FPS.


----------



## cstkl1

.....


----------



## Groove2013

One really shouldn't test in Prime95 with AVX2/FMA3 and AVX enabled.
It only makes you additionally increase the voltage, which lowers max frequency and increases significantly heat output.

I've been testing with Prime95 for stability without AVX2/FMA3 and AVX for years now and the min voltage I find as stable has always been enough even for programs that use AVX, since such programs, even when using AVX, don't stress the CPU as much as Prime95 does without AVX.

On 11700K you additionally should disable AVX-512 as well in Prime95.

That's why you think the CPU requires such high voltage for selected frequency- because you test with everything ON, which makes 0 sense - only accelerates CPU degradation for nothing.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> 38ns not good enough??


?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> One really shouldn't test in Prime95 with AVX2/FMA3 and AVX enabled.
> It only makes you additionally increase the voltage, which lowers max frequency and increases significantly heat output.
> 
> I've been testing with Prime95 for stability without AVX2/FMA3 and AVX for years now and the min voltage I find as stable has always been enough even for programs that use AVX, since such programs, even when using AVX, don't stress the CPU as much as Prime95 does without AVX.
> 
> On 11700K you additionally should disable AVX-512 as well in Prime95.
> 
> That's why you think the CPU requires such high voltage for selected frequency- because you test with everything ON, which makes 0 sense - only accelerates CPU degradation for nothing.


part nobody mentioned
u can PERMA disable avx or avx 512 in bios
Not offset. disable it for good.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> ?


the latency of your kit.. 
but it will be 3866 though.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> part nobody mentioned
> u can PERMA disable avx2 or avx 512 in bios
> Not offset. disable it for good.


Yes, one should set AVX offset to 0 in the BIOS.


----------



## cstkl1

....


----------



## Groove2013

@MoeBen this is the best Prime95 version until now.
ftp://ftp.mersenne.org/gimps/p95v298b6.win64.zip

And here you can see what you should select for testing, like custom, Run FFTs in-place and disable AVX-512, AVX2/FMA3 and AVX.

This the proper way of using Prime95.


----------



## Groove2013

*1344K min and max = Vcore test
551K min and max = Cache/Uncore/Ring test
576K min and max = Cache/Uncore/Ring test
672-720K min-max = IO test
768K min and max = SA/IMC test
800K min and max = VDIMM/Timings test*


----------



## Groove2013

Testing with Prime95 without all the AVX-es will help you prevent accelerated CPU degradation and allow you to lower the voltage and temperature or further increase the frequency.


----------



## GeneO

cstkl1 said:


> part nobody mentioned
> u can PERMA disable avx or avx 512 in bios
> Not offset. disable it for good.


How? Not in my BIOS.


----------



## cstkl1

GeneO said:


> How? Not in my BIOS.


only for rocketlake cpu bro.
did u get one already??

U will love djr oc... its a lot of fun. wasted so much time on bdie . should have listen to HIM day 1


----------



## GeneO

cstkl1 said:


> only for rocketlake cpu bro.
> did u get one already??
> 
> U will love djr oc... its a lot of fun. wasted so much time on bdie . should have listen to HIM day 1


nah, z490. Likely to remain so. Not likely I would disable AVX permanently


----------



## heavyrain

Groove2013 said:


> *1344K min and max = Vcore test
> 551K min and max = Cache/Uncore/Ring test
> 576K min and max = Cache/Uncore/Ring test
> 672-720K min-max = IO test
> 768K min and max = SA/IMC test
> 800K min and max = VDIMM/Timings test*


how to set memory usage if i test vcore？DONT USE IT（set 0）？
in general，which test should i stress memory together？
what does FFT size mean？how to know the relation between FFT size and the type of test？have any data or reference


----------



## shamino1978

YaqY said:


> Any links to that bios  ? Have some people i know on the Apex not enjoying the current 2004 Beta Bios.











ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0009.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## MoeBen

shamino1978 said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Great ! Anything lying around for a z590 Maximus hero


----------



## Talon2016

@shamino1978

Asus Z490 Extreme BIOS? I'm on 2004, getting stupid error about case open every cold boot.

Also have 11700K being delivered tomorrow. Would like to test on most recent BIOS/beta.


----------



## MoeBen

Hmmmm


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Hmmmm


does that boot?? cause its missing few resistors compared to ES. i think its the vccin for pch. just my opinion.. 

but looks diff


----------



## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> does that boot?? cause its missing few resistors compared to ES. i think its the vccin for pch. just my opinion..
> 
> but looks diff


That's 10900K


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> That's 10900K


no wonder. was told to be careful with rkl. so just passing this along.


----------



## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> That's 10900K


 what. What's a nude 10900k doing here?


----------



## MoeBen

10900K was a guinea pig before I delid RL


----------



## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> 10900K was a guinea pig before I delid RL


The problem is the row of small capacitors that don't exist on 9900k and 10900k. And with the NDA, I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to help you. You can contact rockitcool and ask them if their delid kit will work with 11700k's without ripping off the caps, but the last time I emailed them, they never replied back.


----------



## MoeBen

Fu** .... I did delid skylake-x before is it similar


----------



## Zucker2k

MoeBen said:


> Fu** .... I did delid skylake-x before is it similar


Careful, careful.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> no wonder. was told to be careful with rkl. so just passing this along.


If I'll overclock all the cores to 5.2ghz for gaming like I do for the 10900k,

Does it matter if I get the 11700k or the 11900k?


----------



## Exilon

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2481771


How high can you raise Uncore? Looks like it's still at 4GHz there when Skylake ran it at Core - 0.3GHz


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> If I'll overclock all the cores to 5.2ghz for gaming like I do for the 10900k,
> 
> Does it matter if I get the 11700k or the 11900k?


hmm toughone.

@MoeBen hasnt provided a single SS of stability. they only thing is his v/f.
dude also is in canada. ambient still low. cause you got to remember tvb voltage will reduce the voltage required.

@Nizzen zero v/f SS. he doing some ram oc. so seems like some learning going on there.

need vmin of asus maximus mobo. and screenshots of v/f of more cpus.

atm not enough info to say atm 11700k close to 11900k.

plentt if lurkers with 11700k just learning from posting. they dont post any SS of stability other than in benchmark data base..

tough.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> hmm toughone.
> 
> @MoeBen hasnt provided a single SS of stability. they only thing is his v/f.
> dude also is in canada. ambient still low. cause you got to remember tvb voltage will reduce the voltage required.
> 
> @Nizzen zero v/f SS. he doing some ram oc. so seems like some learning going on there.
> 
> need vmin of asus maximus mobo. and screenshots of v/f of more cpus.
> 
> atm not enough info to say atm 11700k close to 11900k.
> 
> plentt if lurkers with 11700k just learning from posting. they dont post any SS of stability other than in benchmark data base..
> 
> tough.


Ok I'll wait a bit more then to decide what to go for.

I have the maximum xiii hero (z590) with the 10900k and can't wait to update it to 11th gen.


----------



## Nizzen

Exilon said:


> How high can you raise Uncore? Looks like it's still at 4GHz there when Skylake ran it at Core - 0.3GHz


4500mhz uncore


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 4500mhz uncore


do u mind showing something... for default 11700k
on avx section default the boost clock
and
if possible with default clocks load Asus Turbo V.. show the per core oc section..

TY

the 0009 suppose to have the new mrc code...


----------



## Cpfan2

Is UHD 750 any good? Wondering if it can run valorant or ow at 1080p low


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> do u mind showing something... for default 11700k
> on avx section default the boost clock
> and
> if possible with default clocks load Asus Turbo V.. show the per core oc section..
> 
> TY
> 
> the 0009 suppose to have the new mrc code...


Do you guys leave one core boost for gaming or is it better all core overclock in this generation?


----------



## AeonMW2

del


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Do you guys leave one core boost for gaming or is it better all core overclock in this generation?


new mrc code changed a few things..
@MoeBen post his and
if @Nizzen can post that with bios 0009..
it be interesting.


----------



## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> new mrc code changed a few things..
> @MoeBen post his and
> if @Nizzen can post that with bios 0009..
> it be interesting.


Link to Bios >.< ? It seems people got their hand on Maximus XIII Hero Bios 0603


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Link to Bios >.< ? It seems people got their hand on Maximus XIII Hero Bios 0603


then its more interesting for ya
check the two settings i mentioned
in bios see the avx tab do a SS
and then open turboV for stock cpu.. do a SS

then flash to the new bios and repeat...
curious what they did for 11700k


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Link to Bios >.< ? It seems people got their hand on Maximus XIII Hero Bios 0603





We'll be back.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Cpfan2 said:


> Is UHD 750 any good? Wondering if it can run valorant or ow at 1080p low


Possibly, but the bigger bump to the iGPU will be in the next gen from what I've read (when the new Xe iGPU will be introduced to the chips).


----------



## jvidia

What temps are you guys seeing on those i11700K ?


----------



## IronAge

MoeBen said:


> Link to Bios >.< ? It seems people got their hand on Maximus XIII Hero Bios 0603


The new Bios has been passed to a review editor of hardwareluxx.de.

He repeated some of the benchmarks with the new Bios and some things have improved:









Erfahrungen mit neuem BIOS - Seite 13 - Hardwareluxx


Rocket Lake-S als Core i7-11700K im Vorab-Test.




www.hardwareluxx.de





He is under NDA from Intel so he may not reveal all the information/details they have already got.


----------



## Talon2016

11700K just got delivered. SP76. Testing now.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> 11700K just got delivered. SP76. Testing now.


v/f Screenshot please

also if u dont mind

screen shot of avx option in bios
screenshot of turbo V cpu clocks stock

those using bios 0603 and 0009 on apex


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Do you guys leave one core boost for gaming or is it better all core overclock in this generation?


mrc code change something.


----------



## shamino1978

MoeBen said:


> Link to Bios >.< ? It seems people got their hand on Maximus XIII Hero Bios 0603


what i can offer right now








ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0603.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0603.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com













ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-2009.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0009.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-STRIX-Z490-E-GAMING-ASUS-2009.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2009.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2009.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Talon2016

shamino1978 said:


> what i can offer right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0603.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0603.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-STRIX-Z490-E-GAMING-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


THANK YOU!!



cstkl1 said:


> v/f Screenshot please
> 
> also if u dont mind
> 
> screen shot of avx option in bios
> screenshot of turbo V cpu clocks stock
> 
> those using bios 0603 and 0009 on apex


Not ignoring you, will get that uploaded soon!


----------



## GeneO

Thanks @Shamino 1978!


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> THANK YOU!!
> 
> 
> 
> Not ignoring you, will get that uploaded soon!


i know. just need larger sample. and then from the shop here i can get another 20-30. so far v/f only one in ocn. 

then we can answer the question is i9 viable.


----------



## RanFodar

Talon2016 said:


> 11700K just got delivered. SP76. Testing now.


I'm eager to see your results on this. Hopefully it's coming well!


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> v/f Screenshot please
> 
> also if u dont mind
> 
> screen shot of avx option in bios
> screenshot of turbo V cpu clocks stock
> 
> those using bios 0603 and 0009 on apex





cstkl1 said:


> i know. just need larger sample. and then from the shop here i can get another 20-30. so far v/f only one in ocn.
> 
> then we can answer the question is i9 viable.


Turbo V is bugged with this new CPU. CPU-Z is also bugged and doesn't read voltage correctly. 



http://imgur.com/a/c2Tbjpv


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> Turbo V is bugged with this new CPU. CPU-Z is also bugged and doesn't read voltage correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/c2Tbjpv


What's the bug in Turbo Vcore?
Specifics, please?

And CPU-Z is interesting. Seems like it reads the correct vcore for exactly half a second, right when it loads. Then it reads something in outer space.


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> What's the bug in Turbo Vcore?
> Specifics, please?
> 
> And CPU-Z is interesting. Seems like it reads the correct vcore for exactly half a second, right when it loads. Then it reads something in outer space.


Odd earlier it wasn't reading my multipliers correctly and now is working fine. Also couldn't adjust values earlier either, and now they seem to be adjusting.



http://imgur.com/grRxFof

 Not a bad single core speed.


----------



## Clukos

Talon2016 said:


> Odd earlier it wasn't reading my multipliers correctly and now is working fine. Also couldn't adjust values earlier either, and now they seem to be adjusting.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/grRxFof
> 
> Not a bad single core speed.


Close to my result with the 5800X at 5.0GHz, not bad










5.3 - 5.4 should be able to surpass that.


----------



## shamino1978

the fixed cpuz








cpuz_P1.zip_


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com













AISuite3.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## cstkl1

Clukos said:


> Close to my result with the 5800X at 5.0GHz, not bad
> 
> View attachment 2482051
> 
> 
> 5.3 - 5.4 should be able to surpass that.


dont even need that high clock.. ppl are still testing their rigs so their systems are not optimized etc...


----------



## ThinbinJim

MoeBen said:


> here you go





Talon2016 said:


> Turbo V is bugged with this new CPU. CPU-Z is also bugged and doesn't read voltage correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/c2Tbjpv


Interesting to see that the 800mhz point has a difference of 45mv, and 2.5ghz are off by 25mv while higher clocks are only 5-10mv difference.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Turbo V is bugged with this new CPU. CPU-Z is also bugged and doesn't read voltage correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/c2Tbjpv


ok so its confirmed. the new intel update.

no more preferred core boosting. its boosting on any core.

check turbo V and u will see 3 cores load boosting to 5ghz instead of the speculated 2


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> ok so its confirmed. the new intel update.
> 
> no more preferred core boosting. its boosting on any core.
> 
> check turbo V and u will see 3 cores load boosting to 5ghz instead of the speculated 2


Let me roll back to stock clocks and check.


----------



## ogider

cstkl1 said:


> alderlake afaik has two imc
> ddr5 uses two
> ddr4 uses one which nerfs the cpu


New rumors appear.








Intel "Raptor Lake" desktop and mobile series appear on a leaked roadmap - VideoCardz.com


Intel Raptor Lake to provide Gaming optimizations over Alder Lake We received a roadmap featuring Raptor Lake, Intel’s yet unannounced mainstream CPU series. The roadmap is clearly not new. It still claims that Rocket Lake would launch in 2020. The upcoming 11th Gen Core series was pushed back...




videocardz.com






If they turn out to be true in terms of improving the game cache...
for me that means that Rocket and then Alder will not be as big a leap in games as you would expect. But this is a kind of reflection based on rumors ofcoz


----------



## Talon2016

So PCIE 4.0 on my Z490 Extreme seems to be causing hard reboots during gameplay. Earlier in the day I thought it was me dialing in overclocks that were causing random system lockups and then reboots. No blue screen, just a lock up/black screen then reboot. So I began dialing things back slowly, then all the way back to BIOS defaults and still locked up and reboot. Then I thought to try and turn off PCIE 4.0/Auto to 3.0 in the BIOS for both x16 slots and played an hour without issue. Dialed my OC back in and played again without issue.

I actually locked up on the desktop a few times as well without blue screen and would just reboot. Never had this once with my 10900K and PCIE 3.0. As I said, PCIE 3.0 selection in the BIOS seems to have completely resolved it. I'll report back if it returns. 

Using a Kingpin 3090 @ stock for tests on latest Nvidia drivers with latest beta BIOS provided here.


----------



## Talon2016

Pushed the single core up a bit more.


----------



## Xdrqgol

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2482087
> 
> Pushed the single core up a bit more.
> View attachment 2482087


Would you be able to run some CBR20 single core ? Much appreciated!


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Let me roll back to stock clocks and check.
> [/QUOTE





ogider said:


> New rumors appear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel "Raptor Lake" desktop and mobile series appear on a leaked roadmap - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Raptor Lake to provide Gaming optimizations over Alder Lake We received a roadmap featuring Raptor Lake, Intel’s yet unannounced mainstream CPU series. The roadmap is clearly not new. It still claims that Rocket Lake would launch in 2020. The upcoming 11th Gen Core series was pushed back...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they turn out to be true in terms of improving the game cache...
> for me that means that Rocket and then Alder will not be as big a leap in games as you would expect. But this is a kind of reflection based on rumors ofcoz


bro alderlake put aside the whatever game thing

can this high core low core thing work for desktop??


----------



## MoeBen

shamino1978 said:


> what i can offer right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0603.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0603.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-STRIX-Z490-E-GAMING-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2009.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thank you So Much !


----------



## slayer6288

cstkl1 said:


> dont even need that high clock.. ppl are still testing their rigs so their systems are not optimized etc...


 so how much is intel payin ya ?


----------



## Zucker2k

slayer6288 said:


> so how much is intel payin ya ?


🤦‍♂️


----------



## Nizzen

Intel is paying with this 😎🤟


----------



## MoeBen

Hopefully it's fine


----------



## MoeBen

MoeBen said:


> Hopefully it's fine


Nizzen now your turn XD


----------



## Nizzen

MoeBen said:


> Mizzen now your turn XD


Try it first 

Nice job!


----------



## MoeBen

Gimme 15 mins 😂


----------



## MoeBen

It's alive 🤣😂


----------



## menko2

MoeBen said:


> It's alive 🤣😂


Good job! 

What about temps delided?


----------



## menko2

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2482087
> 
> Pushed the single core up a bit more.
> View attachment 2482087


My 10900k @5.1ghz does 1350 in single core so you have a good result.


Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2482087
> 
> Pushed the single core up a bit more.
> View attachment 2482087


My 10900k @5.1ghz does 1350 in single core so you have a good result for 5.2ghz with 11700k.


----------



## MoeBen

don't bother deliding I think mine died


----------



## Talon2016

MoeBen said:


> don't bother deliding I think mine died


O damn really?!? Did LM leak out or something?

Looking back at your delidded pictures, did you make sure to cover up those critical parts on top of the PCB with liquid electrical tape or something similar?


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> O damn really?!? Did LM leak out or something?


Nope zero leak I have no clue why it died


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2482087
> 
> Pushed the single core up a bit more.
> View attachment 2482087


Good result. Talon, what's the SP of your chip and what did you set to get 5.2 ghz on all cores?


----------



## speed_demon

MoeBen said:


> Hopefully it's fine


You're famous 









Intel Core i7-11700K Rocket Lake CPU has been delidded - VideoCardz.com


Intel Rocket Lake CPU loses its integrated head spreader Out of 210 Core i7-11700K processors sold, one has already been delidded. Since the german retailer has begun selling new 11th Gen Core CPUs, many of them have ended in hands of real enthusiasts. There are still many of them waiting for...




videocardz.com


----------



## MoeBen

Hahahahaha


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> O damn really?!? Did LM leak out or something?
> 
> Looking back at your delidded pictures, did you make sure to cover up those critical parts on top of the PCB with liquid electrical tape or something similar?


Yup I did I'm not shure if it's dead will recheck later on I had 2 of em now I have one 😆😂 might delid 2nd one. SP prediction was 127 on first boot but I think that was a bug. my cooler was making poor contact with the chip ... When I get my 11900k I'll delid the 2nd chip ... No mercy


----------



## MoeBen

Since they posted it let me upload high resolution pics 😆


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> Good result. Talon, what's the SP of your chip and what did you set to get 5.2 ghz on all cores?


SP76 (meh). I'm not sure how that # works out since it's a new gen and if they are basing this on i7 11700K or i9 SKUs as well. My chip seems to hard wall at 5Ghz all cores. 5.1Ghz won't pass CB23 so far but I stopped around 1.425v or so (it was late) at LLC6. Beyond that I don't see a point in trying. Although maybe this new chip/arch on well refined 14nm can take more abuse? 

But just like Comet Lake you can overclock by core ratio load and set something like 52x, 52x, 51x, 51x, 50x, 50x, 50x, 50x and see good multi core performance as well as hella strong single core. This seemed to work better than OC per core since it appears you can do that as well.

I have also discovered that although the i7 doesn't technically have TVB by default, you can definitely turn it on for the i7 and get 5.2Ghz boost and 4.8Ghz all cores. 

I've been having fun tinkering with the chip. Will definitely be picking up an 11900K and will soft retire my 10900k golden sample to another rig.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> SP76 (meh). I'm not sure how that # works out since it's a new gen and if they are basing this on i7 11700K or i9 SKUs as well. My chip seems to hard wall at 5Ghz all cores. 5.1Ghz won't pass CB23 so far but I stopped around 1.425v or so (it was late) at LLC6. Beyond that I don't see a point in trying. Although maybe this new chip/arch on well refined 14nm can take more abuse?
> 
> But just like Comet Lake you can overclock by core ratio load and set something like 52x, 52x, 51x, 51x, 50x, 50x, 50x, 50x and see good multi core performance as well as hella strong single core. This seemed to work better than OC per core since it appears you can do that as well.
> 
> I have also discovered that although the i7 doesn't technically have TVB by default, you can definitely turn it on for the i7 and get 5.2Ghz boost and 4.8Ghz all cores.
> 
> I've been having fun tinkering with the chip. Will definitely be picking up an 11900K and will soft retire my 10900k golden sample to another rig.


OH I thought you were doing 5.2 ghz all cores, with "Sync all cores"!!!!!!!. I was like *** did you win the lottery again like you did with your 5.4 ghz 10900k ??


----------



## MoeBen

Silicon Porn 









Rocket-Lake-Naked-2


Image Rocket-Lake-Naked-2 hosted in ImgBB




ibb.co












Rocket-Lake-Naked-3


Image Rocket-Lake-Naked-3 hosted in ImgBB




ibb.co


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> SP76 (meh). I'm not sure how that # works out since it's a new gen and if they are basing this on i7 11700K or i9 SKUs as well. My chip seems to hard wall at 5Ghz all cores. 5.1Ghz won't pass CB23 so far but I stopped around 1.425v or so (it was late) at LLC6. Beyond that I don't see a point in trying. Although maybe this new chip/arch on well refined 14nm can take more abuse?
> 
> But just like Comet Lake you can overclock by core ratio load and set something like 52x, 52x, 51x, 51x, 50x, 50x, 50x, 50x and see good multi core performance as well as hella strong single core. This seemed to work better than OC per core since it appears you can do that as well.
> 
> I have also discovered that although the i7 doesn't technically have TVB by default, you can definitely turn it on for the i7 and get 5.2Ghz boost and 4.8Ghz all cores.
> 
> I've been having fun tinkering with the chip. Will definitely be picking up an 11900K and will soft retire my 10900k golden sample to another rig.


Mine is SP 74 and I can do 5.3 all core but it needs a lot of current unless you have a crazy loop there's no point but 5.3 @ 1.520V is doable


----------



## Talon2016

ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with a 11th Gen Intel Core i7-11700K processor.



browser.geekbench.com





Right up there with most 11900K I was seeing. Beats out almost all 5800x. It's impressive what Intel has been able to pull off with ridiculously old 14nm.



MoeBen said:


> Mine is SP 74 and I can do 5.3 all core but it needs a lot of current unless you have a crazy loop there's no point but 5.3 @ 1.520V is doable


What motherboard? What LLC? What current settings are you using in the BIOS? I have mine on Auto, but that is because I've never found it to matter much. Might need to go back and start messing around more.


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with a 11th Gen Intel Core i7-11700K processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right up there with most 11900K I was seeing. Beats out almost all 5800x. It's impressive what Intel has been able to pull off with ridiculously old 14nm.
> 
> 
> 
> What motherboard? What LLC? What current settings are you using in the BIOS? I have mine on Auto, but that is because I've never found it to matter much. Might need to go back and start messing around more.


You can leave LLC on level 5 set AVX negative ratio to 3 set all cores to Sync All Cores Multiplier 53 V-Core Override and start with 1.5V


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> So PCIE 4.0 on my Z490 Extreme seems to be causing hard reboots during gameplay. Earlier in the day I thought it was me dialing in overclocks that were causing random system lockups and then reboots. No blue screen, just a lock up/black screen then reboot. So I began dialing things back slowly, then all the way back to BIOS defaults and still locked up and reboot. Then I thought to try and turn off PCIE 4.0/Auto to 3.0 in the BIOS for both x16 slots and played an hour without issue. Dialed my OC back in and played again without issue.
> 
> I actually locked up on the desktop a few times as well without blue screen and would just reboot. Never had this once with my 10900K and PCIE 3.0. As I said, PCIE 3.0 selection in the BIOS seems to have completely resolved it. I'll report back if it returns.
> 
> Using a Kingpin 3090 @ stock for tests on latest Nvidia drivers with latest beta BIOS provided here.


did this problem occur in 1:2 dram??


----------



## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> You can leave LLC on level 5 set AVX negative ratio to 3 set all cores to Sync All Cores Multiplier 53 V-Core Override and start with 1.5V


What happens with AVX offset of 0?
Don't be scared. You delidded, no need to be scared of AVX. Go big.


----------



## MoeBen

Falkentyne said:


> What happens with AVX offset of 0?
> Don't be scared. You delidded, no need to be scared of AVX. Go big.


Its just not going to work for AVX @ 5.3Ghz you need like 1.65V ... Delidded or not ...crazy loop or not .... I mean I'm not trying to burn the house down LOL


----------



## Elrick

Talon2016 said:


> Right up there with most 11900K I was seeing. Beats out almost all 5800x. It's impressive what Intel has been able to pull off with ridiculously old 14nm.


You can put it all on the Engineers here, working with huge limitations to deliver something viable whilst the management Goons had refused to provide any more money for them to expand R&D.

It's the engineers that deserve all the credit here, whilst the management deserves immediate sackings and replacement.


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> did this problem occur in 1:2 dram??


Occurred in 1:1. I’m not sure it occurred in 1:2 as I haven’t done as much testing with that. 

I hope Asus is aware of it and we will see a fix around release. For me PCI 4.0 is a no go on the GPU until then. Also hoping the Extreme board gets NVME PCIE since it should have the compatible hardware. Would be a bitter pill to swallow seeing as MSI just updated their entire line of Z490 with 4.0, even the cheap-o boards.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Occurred in 1:1. I’m not sure it occurred in 1:2 as I haven’t done as much testing with that.
> 
> I hope Asus is aware of it and we will see a fix around release. For me PCI 4.0 is a no go on the GPU until then. Also hoping the Extreme board gets NVME PCIE since it should have the compatible hardware. Would be a bitter pill to swallow seeing as MSI just updated their entire line of Z490 with 4.0, even the cheap-o boards.


just ruling out sa/io instabilities 1:1 
no risers right. plug on da board? 

then this is a mission for @shamino1978 

msi. lets see what works and dont ya. 

z490 extreme afaik the pcie lane is full 16x gen 4 and the dimm m.2 is 8x gen 4 i believe.


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> just ruling out sa/io instabilities 1:1
> no risers right. plug on da board?
> 
> then this is a mission for @shamino1978
> 
> msi. lets see what works and dont ya.
> 
> z490 extreme afaik the pcie lane is full 16x gen 4 and the dimm m.2 is 8x gen 4 i believe.


No risers. Direct plug to the board, no other PCIE cards, just the 3090.

So I got PCIE 4.0 on NVME working with the Dimm.2 as I suspected would be the avenue I would have to go. It only works in x4 mode with the GPU in x8 mode.

Also only one side of the Dimm.2 works at PCIE 4.0, with the other side only detected as 3.0.


----------



## shamino1978

Talon2016 said:


> No risers. Direct plug to the board, no other PCIE cards, just the 3090.
> 
> So I got PCIE 4.0 on NVME working with the Dimm.2 as I suspected would be the avenue I would have to go. It only works in x4 mode with the GPU in x8 mode.
> 
> Also only one side of the Dimm.2 works at PCIE 4.0, with the other side only detected as 3.0.


i think one side is from chipset another side from cpu


----------



## Falkentyne

shamino1978 said:


> i think one side is from chipset another side from cpu


I think:

Dimm.2 m2_2 is NVME only.
Dimm.2 m2_1 is SATA or NVME


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> I think:
> 
> Dimm.2 m2_2 is NVME only.
> Dimm.2 m2_1 is SATA or NVME


Looks correct, thanks. Figured it out through some trial and error and am going to test PCIE 4.0 further on the GPU tonight a bit to check for the hard reset issue. I imagine it will be there since I haven't changed anything else, and I'll be swapping the drives right back to their motherboard positions to get my pcie 3.0 x16 gpu back.

Edit:

Just played an hour or so of BFV and not a single hitch at PCIE 4.0 on the 3090. No random reboots/black screens. 

Forgot to mention that last night I updated the chipset drivers to the latest versions, could that have possibly been the fix was this totally unrelated. Either way glad it seems to be working correctly.


----------



## Spiriva

I got a "ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO" beeing delivered tomorrow, now i only need a 11900k.

Is there still no word on a release date for them (11900k)?


----------



## menko2

Spiriva said:


> I got a "ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO" beeing delivered tomorrow, now i only need a 11900k.
> 
> Is there still no word on a release date for them (11900k)?


I have also the Hero XIII with a 10900k stock bios. No problems so far and no coil wine.

Also waiting for 11700k or 11900k in Spain.


----------



## Cpfan2

Spiriva said:


> I got a "ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO" beeing delivered tomorrow, now i only need a 11900k.
> 
> Is there still no word on a release date for them (11900k)?


March 15 2021 preorder 
March 30 2021 release

I dont remember where i seen this.


----------



## cstkl1

Cpfan2 said:


> March 15 2021 preorder
> March 30 2021 release
> 
> I dont remember where i seen this.


two retailers here just told me zero preorder for intel. amd cpu preorder gone 4 months


----------



## cstkl1

gskill djr kit out

4400c18 single rank 2x8gb


----------



## rqabbirar

MoeBen said:


> Hopefully it's fine


Soldered or thermal paste?


----------



## ogider

btw..


http://imgur.com/uPnlu1k


mark in red. 

does that mean the 11900k can be armed with a better memory controller? Or I jump to hasty and wrong conclusions?


----------



## unclewebb

ogider said:


> does that mean


Nice find. It looks like Intel has deliberately limited the 11700K to encourage enthusiasts to buy the 11900K instead.


----------



## MoeBen

rqabbirar said:


> Soldered or thermal paste?


Soldered Indium


----------



## Exilon

unclewebb said:


> Nice find. It looks like Intel has deliberately limited the 11700K to encourage enthusiasts to buy the 11900K instead.


The difference seems to be only there to create space between the 11900K and 11700K on stock vs stock reviews.


----------



## Talon2016

Exilon said:


> The difference seems to be only there to create space between the 11900K and 11700K on stock vs stock reviews.


Basically this, there is no hardware limitation preventing from going higher in 1:1 ratio. I am running 3600Mhz 1:1 at CL14 currently on an the i7.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> gskill djr kit out
> 
> 4400c18 single rank 2x8gb


Link?


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> btw..
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/uPnlu1k
> 
> 
> mark in red.
> 
> does that mean the 11900k can be armed with a better memory controller? Or I jump to hasty and wrong conclusions?


err dude.
why is everybody jumping to conclusions.
intel favors bandwidth. when ppl are gonna learn this.

also that post of pic so blur on a img site that so bad in quality.



what 11700k doesnt have vs 11900k.. is one feature that will be made known on 30th.
but you can always oc a good 11700k to equal.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Link?











F4-4400C18D-16GVKC - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Ripjaws V DDR4-4400 CL18-24-24-44 1.50V 16GB (2x8GB) Ripjaws V series DDR4 DRAM memory is designed for sleek aesthetics and performance, making it an ideal choice for building a new PC system or for upgrading your system memory.




www.gskill.com





heard theres 4600 ones also

hope the 4600 are c18


----------



## cstkl1

Bdie DR
4266c17 vs 3866c14
both are about equal in fps
3866c14 requires higher sa/io and vdimm because its 1:1
4266c17 so low on sa/io and vdimm

Djr DR
4600c19 vs 3600c16
should we even say.

4600 uses higher vdimm but very low sa/io
it beats the crap out of 3600c16
but hey y not just go straight 5066


----------



## heavyrain

cstkl1 said:


> gskill djr kit out
> 
> 4400c18 single rank 2x8gb


how much


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> Bdie DR
> 4266c17 vs 3866c14
> both are about equal in fps
> 3866c14 requires higher sa/io and vdimm because its 1:1
> 4266c17 so low on sa/io and vdimm
> 
> Djr DR
> 4600c19 vs 3600c16
> should we even say.
> 
> 4600 uses higher vdimm but very low sa/io
> it beats the crap out of 3600c16
> but hey y not just go straight 5066


I'm going to get the 11900k for sure no matter the difference with the 11700k even if it's only a high binned one.

My question about ram is that I'm running a g.skill samsung b-die 2x8gb 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.35v. 
I overclock it to 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45.
The fps difference between the overclocked ram and the stock ram in games is 0. I tried to used a few games and none of them shows any difference.

I'm running a z590 MAXIMUS HERO XIII with a 10900k @5.1ghz and RTX 3090 KINGPIN.

Will this ram g.skill ram you mention F4-4600C18D-16GTZR make any difference in games instead of the ram-kit i have overclocked?


----------



## cstkl1

lol


heavyrain said:


> how much





heavyrain said:


> how much


ooh sorry read wrongly. they are not expensive.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I'm going to get the 11900k for sure no matter the difference with the 11700k even if it's only a high binned one.
> 
> My question about ram is that I'm running a g.skill samsung b-die 2x8gb 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.35v.
> I overclock it to 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45.
> The fps difference between the overclocked ram and the stock ram in games is 0. I tried to used a few games and none of them shows any difference.
> 
> I'm running a z590 MAXIMUS HERO XIII with a 10900k @5.1ghz and RTX 3090 KINGPIN.
> 
> Will this ram g.skill ram you mention F4-4600C18D-16GTZR make any difference in games instead of the ram-kit i have overclocked?


cause intel FAVORS BANDWIDTH. 

also its not those rams. these will be DJRs 
they have a C at the end if gskill naming. its not out yet. especially the dual rank ones. 

if [email protected] .. these will be clocking 5ghz easy.


----------



## cstkl1

btw dude if u can run [email protected]

those rams can do [email protected]


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> btw dude if u can run [email protected]
> 
> thise rams can do [email protected]


I'll give it a shot. My old mobo was the lower end z370-e and didn't go above 3900mhz.

What i don't understand is how it works this new 1:1 ram similar to infinity fabrik. 
I always overclocked the ram independent of the CPU-ring.

Is there any guide to understand how it works? (No idea about infinity fabrik of ryzens).


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I'll give it a shot. My old mobo was the lower end z370-e and didn't go above 3900mhz.
> 
> What i don't understand is how it works this new 1:1 ram similar to infinity fabrik.
> I always overclocked the ram independent of the CPU-ring.
> 
> Is there any guide to understand how it works? (No idea about infinity fabrik of ryzens).


this aint garbage infinity fabric

this what happens when a idiotic chemist writes a review. doctorate my foot. 

30th when numbers will be out. 

y do u want to run 1:1 when 1:2 is far superior.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> this aint garbage infinity fabric
> 
> this what happens when a idiotic chemist writes a review. doctorate my foot.
> 
> 30th when numbers will be out.
> 
> y do u want to run 1:1 when 1:2 is far superior.


Cool thank you. Good to know.

I just tried my samsung B-die 2x8gb kit in 3 different cases:

A) stock 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.35v
B) oc 3900mhz 14-15-15-15 @1.45v
C) oc 4400MHz 18-19-19-39 @1.45V

All of them makes no fps difference gaming at 4k in six games tested with the MAXIMUS HERO XIII z590, the 10900k @5.1ghz and 3090 Kingpin.

Do you think in this 11th gen the ram speed will make a difference in gaming?

Pd. I just found a deal for 329€. F4-4800C18D-16GTRS. If It's worth it for gaming with a 11900k I'll get it or keep my kit.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Cool thank you. Good to know.
> 
> I just tried my samsung B-die 2x8gb kit in 3 different cases:
> 
> A) stock 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.35v
> B) oc 3900mhz 14-15-15-15 @1.45v
> C) oc 4400MHz 18-19-19-39 @1.45V
> 
> All of them makes no fps difference gaming at 4k in six games tested with the MAXIMUS HERO XIII z590, the 10900k @5.1ghz and 3090 Kingpin.
> 
> Do you think in this 11th gen the ram speed will make a difference in gaming?
> 
> Pd. I just found a deal for 329€. F4-4800C18D-16GTRS. If It's worth it for gaming with a 11900k I'll get it or keep my kit.


4k is gpu bottleneck. gpu not fast enough for cpu to show any diff bro


----------



## cstkl1

anyway this is not hard.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> anyway this is not hard.
> 
> View attachment 2482474


Yawn.... My soon 4 years old 7980xe is laughing at the dualchannel with 125GB/s quadchannel and ~50ns memorylatency 

I'm hoping for a HEDT plattform with 200GB/s+ bandwidth ddr5 with ultra low latency. Like Sub 30ns


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Yawn.... My soon 4 years old 7980xe is laughing at the dualchannel with 125GB/s quadchannel and ~50ns memorylatency
> 
> I'm hoping for a HEDT plattform with 200GB/s+ bandwidth ddr5 with ultra low latency. Like Sub 30ns


its not 50ns. lol.

and 7980xe bro is slow on ipc.

games like nfs heat, warzone, vermintide 2 needs ipc and thread.

dat 7980xe nice synth. but half the time useless in gaming.

but the point is stop fretting about 1:1 vs 1:2. have fun with 1:2.. theres no iol to limit the imc.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> its not 50ns. lol.
> 
> and 7980xe bro is slow on ipc.
> 
> games like nfs heat, warzone, vermintide 2 needs ipc and thread.
> 
> dat 7980xe nice synth. but half the time useless in gaming.
> 
> but the point is stop fretting about 1:1 vs 1:2. have fun with 1:2.. theres no iol to limit the imc.


Sorry I remeber wrong 
I can tune it to 49ns, but abit lower bandwidth. Good enough


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Sorry I remeber wrong
> I can tune it to 49ns, but abit lower bandwidth. Good enough
> View attachment 2482477


49ns!!! tuned!!!!
latency still high though.
it lost to 1:2. sad . lol


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> 4k is gpu bottleneck. gpu not fast enough for cpu to show any diff bro


So even with the 11900k, a z590 hero xiii mobo and a F4-4800C18D-16GTRS kit i won't see any difference because of playing at 4k?


----------



## AeonMW2

menko2 said:


> So even with the 11900k, a z590 hero xiii mobo and a F4-4800C18D-16GTRS kit i won't see any difference because of playing at 4k?


dude at 4K you probably won't see much difference even if you downgrade your CPU to something like i5 10400...


----------



## menko2

AeonMW2 said:


> dude at 4K you probably won't see much difference even if you downgrade your CPU to something like i5 10400...


From 8700k to 10900k i saw the low fps at a much higher level so I don't get many stutter for example in horizon zero dawn.

I tried the x570 with a 5800x and also 5900x but in my games overall Intel had a bit better performance (only gaming).

Even at 4k you can still see a few differences. With the 11th gen i doubt for what i can see until now.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Rocket Lake Redux: 0x34 Microcode Offers Small Performance Gains on Core i7-11700K







www.anandtech.com





small gains with new microcode


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> From 8700k to 10900k i saw the low fps at a much higher level so I don't get many stutter for example in horizon zero dawn.
> 
> I tried the x570 with a 5800x and also 5900x but in my games overall Intel had a bit better performance (only gaming).
> 
> Even at 4k you can still see a few differences. With the 11th gen i doubt for what i can see until now.


My tuned 4.55GHz-4.5GHz 5950x performs better than my 5.3GHz 10900K in games under 2k. Besides, my 5950X 4000 16-19 1T memory outperforms my 10900K 4533 16-17 2T in stream-triad bench.

Looking forward to see what 11 gen can do.


----------



## cstkl1

CallMeODZ said:


> Rocket Lake Redux: 0x34 Microcode Offers Small Performance Gains on Core i7-11700K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.anandtech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> small gains with new microcode


really silly article again by AT.
Y even write anything until 30th.

seriously a click seeker.

how much of that is aib fae work?

they are making this like an AMD update where all work is done by amd with no credit to the board manufacturers fae.


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> anyway this is not hard.
> 
> View attachment 2482474


Memory config/type? Might considering swapping to some higher speed stuff since it seems z590 11th gen go hard in 1:2


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Memory config/type? Might considering swapping to some higher speed stuff since it seems z590 11th gen go hard in 1:2


go dual rank djr kits.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> My tuned 4.55GHz-4.5GHz 5950x performs better than my 5.3GHz 10900K in games under 2k. Besides, my 5950X 4000 16-19 1T memory outperforms my 10900K 4533 16-17 2T in stream-triad bench.
> 
> Looking forward to see what 11 gen can do.


You sure? Care to do some comparison with my [email protected]?


----------



## cstkl1

Rena Ryugu said:


> You sure? Care to do some comparison with my [email protected]?


u can do better than 5.3ghz 50 cache 4533CL17 DR he even has 4700-4800 1t SR

thats what that dude is comparing too...
lol


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Rena Ryugu said:


> You sure? Care to do some comparison with my [email protected]?


For a simple test you may use Intel Memory Latency Checker, see what it looks like. 2*32GB 4000 16-19 1T 1.5V on AMD was like 53500MB/s in the "Stream-triad like" test.

If 10 gen wants to achieve this you might need at least 4666 16-17 DR b-die or 4900 17-17 SR b-die.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone delided the 11gen can tell me the die height and dimension is the same as 10th gen?


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Rena Ryugu said:


> You sure? Care to do some co with my [email protected]?





cstkl1 said:


> u can do better than 5.3ghz 50 cache 4533CL17 DR he even has 4700-4800 1t SR
> 
> thats what that dude is comparing too...
> lol


I can do 5.3 core+5.1 ring+4500 16-16-16-36, and I doubt if any zen 3 can game better this.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> For a simple test you may use Intel Memory Latency Checker, see what it looks like. 2*32GB 4000 16-19 1T 1.5V on AMD was like 53500MB/s in the "Stream-triad like" test.
> 
> If 10 gen wants to achieve this you might need at least 4666 16-17 DR b-die or 4900 17-17 SR b-die.


You can do some gaming benchmark with me. I wouldn't mind.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Rena Ryugu said:


> You can do some gaming benchmark with me. I wouldn't mind.


Don't need to. You can just show me the MLC stream-triad bench.









My results with 10900K 5.3GHz all core 5.1GHz ring was like this:









I believe 11 gen with better ram logic structure and higher DR clocks can get higher actual bandwidth than this.

For a reference of the Stream-triad test, please check:


STREAM Benchmark Reference Information


----------



## Astral85

Did guy who's delidded 11700K that died find out what happened?


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> My tuned 4.55GHz-4.5GHz 5950x performs better than my 5.3GHz 10900K in games under 2k. Besides, my 5950X 4000 16-19 1T memory outperforms my 10900K 4533 16-17 2T in stream-triad bench.
> 
> Looking forward to see what 11 gen can do.


I only tested everything in 4k which is what I use for gaming.

At that resolution after weeks testing and playing with rams, dual ranks modules,...etc the intel processors had a little advantage over the amd systems i tried. I used the same Crosshair viii x570 mobo in both but I changed between 5800x and 5900x. I tried so many things from stock to oc the CPUs and memory's, infinity fabrik,...etc.
The gpu was at the same speed (profile afterburner).

All games benched and used in the same save-spot. What I tested the 10900k @5.1ghz game me a little better in benchmarks but the main thing for me is game play. I had higher mins fps. 
i remember very well Horizon Zero Dawn i had a save point where the intel gave me 95fps and the two ryzens 91fps. Same spot, same angle and no movement.

Im not a intel fan, just wanted to change to AMD for something better for gaming but back to intel and waiting to see if 11900k is better than 10900k for gaming.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I only tested everything in 4k which is what I use for gaming.
> 
> At that resolution after weeks testing and playing with rams, dual ranks modules,...etc the intel processors had a little advantage over the amd systems i tried. I used the same Crosshair viii x570 mobo in both but I changed between 5800x and 5900x. I tried so many things from stock to oc the CPUs and memory's, infinity fabrik,...etc.
> The gpu was at the same speed (profile afterburner).
> 
> All games benched and used in the same save-spot. What I tested the 10900k @5.1ghz game me a little better in benchmarks but the main thing for me is game play. I had higher mins fps.
> i remember very well Horizon Zero Dawn i had a save point where the intel gave me 95fps and the two ryzens 91fps. Same spot, same angle and no movement.
> 
> Im not a intel fan, just wanted to change to AMD for something better for gaming but back to intel and waiting to see if 11900k is better than 10900k for gaming.


for me 10th gen cpu. the saving grace was with asus maximus mobo bro. U get to keep full cpu function with high oc ram/cpu.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> for me 10th gen cpu. the saving grace was with asus maximus mobo bro. U get to keep full cpu function with high oc ram/cpu.


I forgot to mention my older system i was testing at the same time.

A cheaper z370-e gaming Strix, 8700k @5GHZ, the same b-die 2x8gb 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @ 1.45v and the 3090 kingpin.

The fps in this old system were very similar to
the 10900k, almost the same but the lows were a bit better in the 10900k.
If I knew I don't know if I would upgrade again the mobo-cpu but it's done now.

I don't know why both 5800x and 5900x fell a bit behind the 8700k but I tested and tried everything with the ryzens.

I remember clearly the same spot in Horizon Zero Dawn: 10900k 95fps, 8700k 94fps, 5800x-5900x 91fps. The benchmarks acted in similar way.

Let's see with the 11th gen.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I forgot to mention my older system i was testing at the same time.
> 
> A cheaper z370-e gaming Strix, 8700k @5GHZ, the same b-die 2x8gb 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @ 1.45v and the 3090 kingpin.
> 
> The fps in this old system were very similar to
> the 10900k, almost the same but the lows were a bit better in the 10900k.
> If I knew I don't know if I would upgrade again the mobo-cpu but it's done now.
> 
> I don't know why both 5800x and 5900x fell a bit behind the 8700k but I tested and tried everything with the ryzens.
> 
> I remember clearly the same spot in Horizon Zero Dawn: 10900k 95fps, 8700k 94fps, 5800x-5900x 91fps. The benchmarks acted in similar way.
> 
> Let's see with the 11th gen.


should a person from a highly tuned 10900k take a plunge to 11900k

this. hard one. 

but from what i seen competitive gamers will love what 11th gen cpu with z590 brings to the table. i dont know any of them were crazy enough to use a amd cpu. i would laugh if he lost because of bsod. lol


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> should a person from a highly tuned 10900k take a plunge to 11900k
> 
> this. hard one.
> 
> but from what i seen competitive gamers will love what 11th gen cpu with z590 brings to the table. i dont know any of them were crazy enough to use a amd cpu. i would laugh if he lost because of bsod. lol


I should have kept my z370-e and 8700k @5GHZ delided.

It's nice to have a new system but not worth for amd or even the 10900k (to play in 4k).


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I should have kept my z370-e and 8700k @5GHZ delided.
> 
> It's nice to have a new system but not worth for amd or even the 10900k (to play in 4k).


oh that one.. cant dude
i had a very good 8700k.. did 5.1ghz 1.216v on load...

but just steam downloads its 100% cpu core load.
[email protected] was the perfect cpu actually the 8 core..
10900k was overkill.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> I only tested everything in 4k which is what I use for gaming.
> 
> At that resolution after weeks testing and playing with rams, dual ranks modules,...etc the intel processors had a little advantage over the amd systems i tried. I used the same Crosshair viii x570 mobo in both but I changed between 5800x and 5900x. I tried so many things from stock to oc the CPUs and memory's, infinity fabrik,...etc.
> The gpu was at the same speed (profile afterburner).
> 
> All games benched and used in the same save-spot. What I tested the 10900k @5.1ghz game me a little better in benchmarks but the main thing for me is game play. I had higher mins fps.
> i remember very well Horizon Zero Dawn i had a save point where the intel gave me 95fps and the two ryzens 91fps. Same spot, same angle and no movement.
> 
> Im not a intel fan, just wanted to change to AMD for something better for gaming but back to intel and waiting to see if 11900k is better than 10900k for gaming.


Zen cpus need waaay too much effort to get stabled compared to intel, that 5 to 6 voltages need to be tuned accordingly. I spent several days getting the R23 score stabilized...Intel does provide a better OC exp. towards gaming. Wish I could grab a 11900K at the launch...

I would just sell that 5GHz 8700k. Unless its an 8086k😁


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> should a person from a highly tuned 10900k take a plunge to 11900k
> 
> this. hard one.
> 
> but from what i seen competitive gamers will love what 11th gen cpu with z590 brings to the table. i dont know any of them were crazy enough to use a amd cpu. i would laugh if he lost because of bsod. lol


Can't agree more...I won't use OCed zen 3 for anything that needs high stabilization...Even you can stabilize the cpu, sometimes the agesa can still play tricks on you...


----------



## DarthBaggins

cstkl1 said:


> oh that one.. cant dude
> i had a very good 8700k.. did 5.1ghz 1.216v on load...
> 
> but just steam downloads its 100% cpu core load.
> [email protected] was the perfect cpu actually the 8 core..
> 10900k was overkill.


I've still debated on snagging a 10700k to take the place of my 6900k, just due to platform advancements on the mainstream and within the cores themselves. I know MicroCenter has them listed at $249 +tax right now and would just need to bundle a board for the move - I would still be content using my 2400 c10 Dom Plats on that platform. (I've been running on the x99 platform since it's launch)


----------



## cstkl1

DarthBaggins said:


> I've still debated on snagging a 10700k to take the place of my 6900k, just due to platform advancements on the mainstream and within the cores themselves. I know MicroCenter has them listed at $249 +tax right now and would just need to bundle a board for the move - I would still be content using my 2400 c10 Dom Plats on that platform. (I've been running on the x99 platform since it's launch)


i had those 4x8gb 2400c10.. 
replaced my 4x4gb 2400c9 ripjaws. 

was unlucky. my dom plats were not very good samsungs. only could do 2600c10.. 
couldnt do 2666.


----------



## aznguyen316

Sorry if this is not the right place but many of you seem to know what you’re talking about.
Anyone have thoughts on z490 Maximus XII Hero vs a Z590 Strix E gaming? Both are similarly priced, obviously one has the newer chipset with better pcie 4.0 support, but wondering which you guys would prefer to buy for overclocking either a 10900k or an 119900k depending on benchmarks. These are the only two boards I would consider right now for pricing. 

The Maximus XII has the die sense and from marketing it doesn’t look like the z590 Strix will have it (only for Maximus?). Is this important for overclock?

Both have optimum III memory optimizations, but I wonder if overclocking ram and cpu if there will be much difference between these boards? Both VRMs seem to be very high tier for normal 360mm AIO, so I’m not that worried about it. Just wondering if I’m missing anything. Part of me wants to go Maximus z490 since it was high tier last Gen, but the Strix z590-E seems to be a near replacement of the same tier of last Gen with wifi 6e and if I go 11th Gen an additional m.2 slot. Thanks for input I’ll go check for any motherboard discussion threads to post in.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

aznguyen316 said:


> Sorry if this is not the right place but many of you seem to know what you’re talking about.
> Anyone have thoughts on z490 Maximus XII Hero vs a Z590 Strix E gaming? Both are similarly priced, obviously one has the newer chipset with better pcie 4.0 support, but wondering which you guys would prefer to buy for overclocking either a 10900k or an 119900k depending on benchmarks. These are the only two boards I would consider right now for pricing.
> 
> The Maximus XII has the die sense and from marketing it doesn’t look like the z590 Strix will have it (only for Maximus?). Is this important for overclock?
> 
> Both have optimum III memory optimizations, but I wonder if overclocking ram and cpu if there will be much difference between these boards? Both VRMs seem to be very high tier for normal 360mm AIO, so I’m not that worried about it. Just wondering if I’m missing anything. Part of me wants to go Maximus z490 since it was high tier last Gen, but the Strix z590-E seems to be a near replacement of the same tier of last Gen with wifi 6e and if I go 11th Gen an additional m.2 slot. Thanks for input I’ll go check for any motherboard discussion threads to post in.


M12H doesn't have the pcie 4.0 amps and switches, so if you would use 11 gen cpu and pcie 4.0, at least you need the Z590-E


----------



## domdtxdissar

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Don't need to. You can just show me the MLC stream-triad bench.
> View attachment 2482567
> 
> 
> My results with 10900K 5.3GHz all core 5.1GHz ring was like this:
> View attachment 2482568
> 
> 
> I believe 11 gen with better ram logic structure and higher DR clocks can get higher actual bandwidth than this.
> 
> For a reference of the Stream-triad test, please check:
> 
> 
> STREAM Benchmark Reference Information


Vsoc 1.26v ? Trying to fry your 5950x ?
IOD also.. and here should be minimum 50mv difference between those two.

64 gigs @ T1 GDM OFF at 2000:4000 speeds = are you sure those settings are stable/WHEA-free ?
Anyway here is my stream-triad numbers if you want to compare:


http://imgur.com/a/PNZBEGD


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

domdtxdissar said:


> Vsoc 1.26v ? Trying to fry your 5950x ?
> IOD also.. and here should be minimum 50mv difference when those two.
> 
> And where did you find those RTT timings ?
> 64 gigs @ T1 GDM OFF at 2000:4000 speeds = i dont think those settings are stable/WHEA-free
> Anyway here is my stream-triad numbers if you want to compare:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/PNZBEGD


Thanks for your results 

Zentimings didn't catch the correct SOC. The SOC in BIOS was 1.2375 and the IOD was 1.21. All the results were tested in "normal" Win10.

RTT on MSI was strange. Any changes in RTT will cause instability. I have tested all the Asus RTTs (including 6/3/3, 4/3/3, and 4/1/6), but only have to leave all three RTTs to auto.

Its "stable"---tested with TM5-Ollie 1hr and R23 30 min cycles (95℃ max), but not WHEA-19 free. It appears every 1 to 2 min under load. However network and GFX work fine in games. Seems its cause by the lame IF on this chip.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M12H doesn't have the pcie 4.0 amps and switches, so if you would use 11 gen cpu and pcie 4.0, at least you need the Z590-E


Was it today when we can pre-order the 11th? I'm going for the 11900k if I see one.

I can't see anything for sale here in Spain yet.


----------



## Spiriva

menko2 said:


> Was it today when we can pre-order the 11th? I'm going for the 11900k if I see one.
> 
> I can't see anything for sale here in Spain yet.


Same in Sweden, no shop have even listed the 11900k. I got the Asus hero xiii z590 at home now, but no cpu for it yet


----------



## menko2

Spiriva said:


> Same in Sweden, no shop have even listed the 1900k. I got the Asus hero xiii z590 at home now, but no cpu for it yet


 Exactly the same here. As well with a HERO XIII waiting.

Not even the 11700k is listed here in any shop.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Exactly the same here. As well with a HERO XIII waiting.
> 
> Not even the 11700k is listed here in any shop.


cause most ppl in the world understand trust > nda. 

anandtech think they are smart to circumvent nda but they just broke trust.


----------



## ogider

@cstkl1


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> @cstkl1


its only worth while watching if 

its both @ same ivdimm
3866cl14 DR vs 4533cl17

and turnaround diff. 

but all these is beyond them. 

the idea is to see latency vs bandwidth. which more beneficial.

but these guys dont know anything. so how? they claim they do end user experience to mask that they dont know 99% of the bios options.

dumbest thing gear vs gear on same frequency. do u even have to watch??

its like watching somebody do a video 1 + 1 apple is 2 apple.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> its only worth while watching if
> 
> its both @ same ivdimm
> 3866cl14 DR vs 4533cl17
> 
> and turnaround diff.
> 
> but all these is beyond them.
> 
> the idea is to see latency vs bandwidth. which more beneficial.
> 
> but these guys dont know anything. so how? they claim they do end user experience to mask that they dont know 99% of the bios options.
> 
> dumbest thing gear vs gear on same frequency. do u even have to watch??
> 
> its like watching somebody do a video 1 + 1 apple is 2 apple.


I'm shocked that i watched the whole video. Totally waste of time.

Specially with the processor bought in retail with no restriction to review properly.

I hope one decent review will come soon


----------



## robert98983

Hi guys,

I'll keep you posted this evening!


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I'm shocked that i watched the whole video. Totally waste of time.
> 
> Specially with the processor bought in retail with no restriction to review properly.
> 
> I hope one decent review will come soon


if they keep being silly. 
alderlake .. these guys wont know how to review it. 

look at jay2cent latest video

he been brainswashed calling how ryzen works this and that.. 

do u know what he was talking about??

he was talking about loadline. its NOT a ryzen thing. 

gear 1:2 NOT a ryzen thing

intel has no loss in bandwidth.


----------



## Talon2016

robert98983 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'll keep you posted this evening!
> 
> View attachment 2482726


Please be a good quality chip that overclocks. I need to know how the i9 compares to the i7. Got my i9 reserved at MC for launch day.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Please be a good quality chip that overclocks. I need to know how the i9 compares to the i7. Got my i9 reserved at MC for launch day.


he is using as rock. so.. wont know.


----------



## ogider

New 11th Gen Intel® Core™ Desktop Processor Product Brief


Brief: Reimagine the compute experience with an innovative new architecture and the new 11th Gen Intel® Core™ desktop processor family.




www.intel.com













Intel announces 11th Gen Core Rocket Lake-S desktop CPUs - VideoCardz.com


11th Gen Intel Core: Unmatched Overclocking, Game Performance The 11th Gen Intel® Core™ S-series desktop processors (code-named “Rocket Lake-S”) launched worldwide today, led by the flagship Intel® Core™ i9-11900K. Reaching speeds of up to 5.3GHz with Intel® Thermal Velocity Boost1, the Intel...




videocardz.com


----------



## Nizzen

Stock 4266 XMP 009 bios VS 0031


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> Stock 4266 XMP 009 bios VS 0031
> 
> View attachment 2482735
> 
> View attachment 2482736


Have you tried clocking single rank/dual rank higher on 1:2? Atleast from what i've seen the imc on these cpu can daily high speeds on 1:2.


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> Have you tried clocking single rank/dual rank higher on 1:2? Atleast from what i've seen the imc on these cpu can daily high speeds on 1:2.


I will try with this new bios. 4533c17 was max with my old 4000c17 single rank 2x8. Performance was bad


Will report back later


----------



## ogider

menko2 said:


> Was it today when we can pre-order the 11th? I'm going for the 11900k if I see one.
> 
> I can't see anything for sale here in Spain yet.


Yea from today.
in Poland, they are already in stores in the form of pre-sale



http://imgur.com/ZheWQAb


----------



## menko2

ogider said:


> Yea from today.
> in Poland, they are already in stores in the form of pre-sale
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/ZheWQAb


Nothing in Spain yet for 11900k.

Any retailer in europe that ships to Spain for preorder?


----------



## IronAge

shamino1978 said:


> what i can offer right now


can you offer the one with x39 Microcode compiled yesterday as well for the Z590 ROG lineup ? THX


----------



## Talon2016

IronAge said:


> can you offer the one with x39 Microcode compiled yesterday as well for the Z590 ROG lineup ? THX


Yes please! Z590 Hero XIII.


----------



## IronAge

Official Rocket Lake presentation:






Hardwareluxx Galerie - Intel-rocket-lake-s-deepdive - Hardwareluxx


Tägliche IT-News, Testberichte über Notebooks, Smartphones, Prozessoren, Grafikkarten und anderen Komponenten rund um PC-Hardware für Profis und Gamer.




www.hardwareluxx.de





Intel Extreme Tuning Utility should allow modifying Gear as well as memory bandwidth/latency within Windows.


----------



## Spiriva

menko2 said:


> Nothing in Spain yet for 11900k.
> 
> Any retailer in europe that ships to Spain for preorder?


I placed an order abit earlier today.









Intel Core i9-11900K CPU - Processor


Intel Core i9-11900K CPU - Socket-LGA1200, 8-Core, 16-Thread, 3.5/5.3GHz, Rocket Lake, utan kylare




www.komplett.se





5990kr ~€591


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> if they keep being silly.
> alderlake .. these guys wont know how to review it.
> 
> look at jay2cent latest video
> 
> he been brainswashed calling how ryzen works this and that..
> 
> do u know what he was talking about??
> 
> he was talking about loadline. its NOT a ryzen thing.
> 
> gear 1:2 NOT a ryzen thing
> 
> intel has no loss in bandwidth.


And 10ms higher latency? 1 fps loss. ONE FPS.
count it boys.
ONE.
FPS.


----------



## WatcherBackus

cstkl1 said:


> its only worth while watching if
> 
> its both @ same ivdimm
> 3866cl14 DR vs 4533cl17
> 
> and turnaround diff.
> 
> but all these is beyond them.
> 
> the idea is to see latency vs bandwidth. which more beneficial.
> 
> but these guys dont know anything. so how? they claim they do end user experience to mask that they dont know 99% of the bios options.
> 
> dumbest thing gear vs gear on same frequency. do u even have to watch??
> 
> its like watching somebody do a video 1 + 1 apple is 2 apple.


Gamersnexus is all weird, and it's pretty obvious he likes AMD.


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> And 10ms higher latency? 1 fps loss. ONE FPS.
> count it boys.
> ONE.
> FPS.


So you recommend going with 1:2 and keep bandwidth high?


----------



## shamino1978

Talon2016 said:


> Yes please! Z590 Hero XIII.


theres one other thread u can find it at, not too tough for you im sure


----------



## IronAge

shamino1978 said:


> theres one other thread u can find it at, not too tough for you im sure





shamino1978 said:


> Latest Bioses:
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0611.rar
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0610.rar
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0610.rar
> ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0610.rar


Thank you very much, sir.


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> I will try with this new bios. 4533c17 was max with my old 4000c17 single rank 2x8. Performance was bad
> 
> 
> Will report back later


Can you recommend a good ram kit for the 11900k?
I have seen this one that looks good but I'm not expert in memories F4-4600C18D-16GTRG (350€).

I have a g.skill samsung b die 2x8gb 3600 15-15-15-35 @1.35.
It's overclocked to 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45v.

I play in 4k so my 3090 Kingpin it's bottleneck for gaming but will be good to have a good rams for the future.


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> Can you recommend a good ram kit for the 11900k?
> I have seen this one that looks good but I'm not expert in memories F4-4600C18D-16GTRG (350€).
> 
> I have a g.skill samsung b die 2x8gb 3600 15-15-15-35 @1.35.
> It's overclocked to 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45v.
> 
> I play in 4k so my 3090 Kingpin it's bottleneck for gaming but will be good to have a good rams for the future.


2x8GB is too small for me, so I'm going to use my g.skill 4266 c17 2x16 dualrank kit.

I ordered 11900k today, but I have some dought it wil be faster than 10900k with 4700c17 tweaked memory 

For now, 11700k is a strange animal 😆 Still trying to figure it out.


----------



## bastian

Nizzen said:


> 2x8GB is too small for me, so I'm going to use my g.skill 4266 c17 2x16 dualrank kit.
> 
> I ordered 11900k today, but I have some dought it wil be faster than 10900k with 4700c17 tweaked memory
> 
> For now, 11700k is a strange animal 😆 Still trying to figure it out.


Should we assume kits with the 11900k will not be able to achieve at least similar settings/OC of memory that currently works fine with 10900k?


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> 2x8GB is too small for me, so I'm going to use my g.skill 4266 c17 2x16 dualrank kit.
> 
> I ordered 11900k today, but I have some dought it wil be faster than 10900k with 4700c17 tweaked memory
> 
> For now, 11700k is a strange animal 😆 Still trying to figure it out.


I thought 2x8gb should overclock easier than 2x16gb and for gaming doesn't matter much 32gb.

I can only find one 2x16gb kit in the hero xiii compability list that i can find to buy here in Spain. 

It's this one: F4-4000C19D-32GTZR @1.35v

Doesn't look very good as it's almost at the end of the compatible rams. 

Any recommendation?


----------



## Spiriva

menko2 said:


> I thought 2x8gb should overclock easier than 2x16gb and for gaming doesn't matter much 32gb.
> 
> I can only find one 2x16gb kit in the hero xiii compability list that i can find to buy here in Spain.
> 
> It's this one: F4-4000C19D-32GTZR @1.35v
> 
> Doesn't look very good as it's almost at the end of the compatible rams.
> 
> Any recommendation?











F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z RGB DDR4-4266 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Featuring the award-winning Trident Z heatspreader design, the Trident Z RGB memory series combines vivid RGB lighting with awesome DDR4 DRAM performance.




www.gskill.com





Ive been looking at this kit.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I thought 2x8gb should overclock easier than 2x16gb and for gaming doesn't matter much 32gb.
> 
> I can only find one 2x16gb kit in the hero xiii compability list that i can find to buy here in Spain.
> 
> It's this one: F4-4000C19D-32GTZR @1.35v
> 
> Doesn't look very good as it's almost at the end of the compatible rams.
> 
> Any recommendation?


stop wasting time on bdie like i did. should have listen to him from day 1.
so dont be me,

the fun all on djr ppl.

gskill/adata has DR djr kits coming out


----------



## cstkl1

Spiriva said:


> F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z RGB DDR4-4266 CL17-18-18-38 1.50V 32GB (2x16GB) Featuring the award-winning Trident Z heatspreader design, the Trident Z RGB memory series combines vivid RGB lighting with awesome DDR4 DRAM performance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ive been looking at this kit.


dont. DJR DJR..


----------



## cstkl1

bastian said:


> Should we assume kits with the 11900k will not be able to achieve at least similar settings/OC of memory that currently works fine with 10900k?


much much better. 
theres no iol, rtl tuning is eol

so its all about bios tuned by fae, 
your timings and voltage. thats it. 

and we have one hell of a fae. guys.


----------



## bastian

Something to keep in mind in my discussions with shamino, Z490 boards, even the high end ASUS Z490 Extreme are not the priority for Intel in regards to Rocket Lake microcode updates. So with all these talks about Intel improving things for Rocket Lake with new microcodes, that is for Z590 boards. Eventually the improvements will arrive for Z490 boards, but they don't know when its all on Intel.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> stop wasting time on bdie like i did. should have listen to him from day 1.
> so dont be me,
> 
> the fun all on djr ppl.
> 
> gskill/adata has DR djr kits coming out


16gb or 32gb. 32gb might be overkill for gaming but let's see what's around for sale.

Is there any djr kit recommended right now?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> 16gb or 32gb. 32gb might be overkill for gaming but let's see what's around for sale.
> 
> Is there any djr kit recommended right now?


this you guys need to find bro.

ddr4 comparing 3866c14 vs 4533c17..

its the same like comparing 4533c17/4700c17 (SR) vs 5066c19/20 (dr) 5333-5600 c20 (sr)

so go high. bandwidth overcomes the latency to point it will go down with high bandwidth.


----------



## cstkl1

dont use SA voltages as per cml. 

try auto first. SA high causes issues.


----------



## Profens

Nizzen said:


> reposting my 10900k to compare.
> Impossible to beat with Rocketlake atm.


What is the advantage of tWR 9?


----------



## FoVeS

cstkl1 said:


> this you guys need to find bro.
> 
> ddr4 comparing 3866c14 vs 4533c17..
> 
> its the same like comparing 4533c17/4700c17 (SR) vs 5066c19/20 (dr) 5333-5600 c20 (sr)
> 
> so go high. bandwidth overcomes the latency to point it will go down with high bandwidth.



Wait.. so what would be good RAM for 10900k Dual Rank 2x16? F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is the one I have and it is B-Die but you are saying B-Die isn't good??


----------



## YaqY

FoVeS said:


> Wait.. so what would be good RAM for 10900k Dual Rank 2x16? F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is the one I have and it is B-Die but you are saying B-Die isn't good??


From what i have gathered atleast DJR should be king on rocketlake for high clocks, for cometlake Dual Rank bdie is great for performance.


----------



## cstkl1

FoVeS said:


> Wait.. so what would be good RAM for 10900k Dual Rank 2x16? F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is the one I have and it is B-Die but you are saying B-Die isn't good??


eh u asking 10900k in 11900k thread 

odd. very odd. 

10900k go with bdie DR


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> From what i have gathered atleast DJR should be king on rocketlake for high clocks, for cometlake Dual Rank bdie is great for performance.


You missed C9BLG


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You missed C9BLG


I am also interested to see Micron Rev B on rocketlake . Stuff is much easier to get than djr with crucial.


----------



## menko2

Spain prices:

11700k 429€

11900k 649€

Shocked for the 11900k price.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Spain prices:
> 
> 11700k 429€
> 
> 11900k 649€
> 
> Shocked for the 11900k price.


thats high.


----------



## Antsu

menko2 said:


> Spain prices:
> 
> 11700k 429€
> 
> 11900k 649€
> 
> Shocked for the 11900k price.


LOL, the good old i9 tax. Proshop has the 11700K listed for 439, but i9 is 589.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> thats high.


The price for the 11700k is so so but the 11900k is horrible.

For what I have read heretge 11900k is just a better binned chip and better imc right?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> The price for the 11700k is so so but the 11900k is horrible.
> 
> For what I have read heretge 11900k is just a better binned chip and better imc right?


err remain to be seen on vcire

imc no indication its better

but i9 has atb, and other features.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> err remain to be seen on vcire
> 
> imc no indication its better
> 
> but i9 has atb, and other features.


I just pre-ordered two 11900k in Spain.

My z590 Asus Maximus Hero XIII will tell me which chip is better with the SP i guess.

Is the SP number reliable to determine which chip is better?


----------



## bastian

menko2 said:


> Is the SP number reliable to determine which chip is better?


In theory.


----------



## RanFodar

menko2 said:


> Spain prices:
> 
> 11700k 429€
> 
> 11900k 649€
> 
> Shocked for the 11900k price.


Yeah, i9 is priced WAY too high. At the moment, the 11700k should be the choice for mainstream gaming because it's better binned.


----------



## menko2

RanFodar said:


> Yeah, i9 is priced WAY too high. At the moment, the 11700k should be the choice for mainstream gaming because it's better binned.


Better binned the 11700k than the 11900k?


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> Better binned the 11700k than the 11900k?


NO


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> NO


That's what I thought.

RanFodar said it's better binned (don't know why to take that conclusion).


----------



## Kana Chan

menko2 said:


> Better binned the 11700k than the 11900k?


He probably meant the other way around

They probably binned them as 11900K[F] > 11900[F] > 11900T > 11700K in terms of voltage with the 2 in between locked?


----------



## bastian

What uncore/north bridge clock OCs should we be expecting with Rocket? Seems default is 3.8ghz on 11700k and 4.0ghz on 11900k? Pretty low considering people ran 4.7-4.9 on previous gen.


----------



## Talon2016

bastian said:


> What uncore/north bridge clock OCs should we be expecting with Rocket? Seems default is 3.8ghz on 11700k and 4.0ghz on 11900k? Pretty low considering people ran 4.7-4.9 on previous gen.


I think my 11700K maxes around 4.4Ghz cache. I'll go recheck in a bit.


----------



## Nizzen

bastian said:


> What uncore/north bridge clock OCs should we be expecting with Rocket? Seems default is 3.8ghz on 11700k and 4.0ghz on 11900k? Pretty low considering people ran 4.7-4.9 on previous gen.


My 11700k does 4500 cache.


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> My 11700k does 4500 cache.


Core voltage?


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> Core voltage?


1.38v for 4500 cache 😅


----------



## ogider

Nizzen said:


> 1.38v for 4500 cache 😅


wow...are you able to run few linx circles ?


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> 1.38v for 4500 cache 😅


Nice chip! Mine goes to 4.4Ghz at 1.375v. Tried 4.5Ghz and it boots then blue screen. But of course I have no idea how many memory dimms, speed, core ratios you're using etc nor your other voltages. Still it does seem they hit a wall around 4.4-4.5Ghz. I run mine at 4.2Ghz since it doesn't seem to make a difference either way.


----------



## Nizzen

ogider said:


> wow...are you able to run few linx circles ?


This cpu is for benchmarking and fun, so I don't care about prime95 avx2 stable or something like that. If it's stable in bencmarks and Battlefield V, it's good enough for me


----------



## cstkl1

bastian said:


> What uncore/north bridge clock OCs should we be expecting with Rocket? Seems default is 3.8ghz on 11700k and 4.0ghz on 11900k? Pretty low considering people ran 4.7-4.9 on previous gen.


default -9-10 from cpu.

so when its 5.1 its 4.1 etc


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Nice chip! Mine goes to 4.4Ghz at 1.375v. Tried 4.5Ghz and it boots then blue screen. But of course I have no idea how many memory dimms, speed, core ratios you're using etc nor your other voltages. Still it does seem they hit a wall around 4.4-4.5Ghz. I run mine at 4.2Ghz since it doesn't seem to make a difference either way.


LL8 + manual u should be able to do -6


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> That's what I thought.
> 
> RanFodar said it's better binned (don't know why to take that conclusion).


some ppl think v/f on asus is a magical number shamino dreamt. lol

thats what u use to compare

see 4.8 and 5.0/5.1

so use that for your own judgement.


----------



## Chamidorix

Alright @cstkl1 , I'll bite - I know you're from Malaysia so it could just be translation, but twice now in this thread you've referenced listening to "him" as being the first entity to bring up using hynix djr vs samsung b-die as better for rkl.

Who is this "him"? Who called it out so early?



cstkl1 said:


> stop wasting time on bdie like i did. should have listen to him from day 1.





cstkl1 said:


> U will love djr oc... its a lot of fun. wasted so much time on bdie . should have listen to HIM day 1


----------



## cstkl1

Chamidorix said:


> Alright @cstkl1 , I'll bite - I know you're from Malaysia so it could just be translation, but twice now in this thread you've referenced listening to "him" as being the first entity to bring up using hynix djr vs samsung b-die as better for rkl.
> 
> Who is this "him"? Who called it out so early?


the only dude presence in ocn and another forum.. i behave like a stalker..
he didnt state this in any public post afaik

all this is thanks to him


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> the only dude presence in ocn and another forum.. i behave like a stalker..
> he didnt state this in any public post afaik
> 
> all this is thanks to him


We don't have the 11900k yet or final bios microcodes for the 11700k but doing some thoughts I think this 11th gen is not going to be any better than 10900k for gaming.

Even if we have this ipc uplift to let's say 15%, but the latencies are higher plus 2 cores less than 10900k...

Is it not more or less the for gaming? Latencies is where intel beats amd for gaming as far as I know.

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## ogider

edit: del


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> We don't have the 11900k yet or final bios microcodes for the 11700k but doing some thoughts I think this 11th gen is not going to be any better than 10900k for gaming.
> 
> Even if we have this ipc uplift to let's say 15%, but the latencies are higher plus 2 cores less than 10900k...
> 
> Is it not more or less the for gaming? Latencies is where intel beats amd for gaming as far as I know.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


err those bios shamino shared is the latest ucode. it has suprises.

reviewers with their lazy attitude cant differiante all the mrc/ucode updates.
or fae skills.

intel favors bandwidth. bandwidth. it always has.

bandwidth kept hedt relevant at higher latency. so why does infinity fabric flaws has any relevance to intel.
theres too much "AMD" theories that somehow became universal truth.
odt on ram tweaking
ryzen agesa 
fclk etc 1/2 of effective ram speed..
1:1 is better because 1:2 looses on bandwidth etc.

rkl
architecture stability. no L0, no cpu paririty.
ram oc, no iol limitation
imc 1:1 to ram effective speed with stepping of 266. ram 3200, imc 3200. cpuz reporting it wrong.
only thing stopping u is ram kit, board..
1:2 superior turnaround timings.

as i mention before against a tuned up 10900k no comment

"but put that rig and rkl rig in a deathmatch scenario gaming 1v1.. in an arena with same cooling etc.. i choose rkl"


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Odt are a question how good the board training it, it's necessary to get no "reflexion's on signal".

The other things we will see.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> Odt are a question how good the board training it, it's necessary to get no "reflexion's on signal".
> 
> The other things we will see.


its a preset default.


----------



## cstkl1

we need more ram oc SS. @MoeBen where are u?


----------



## bastian

menko2 said:


> We don't have the 11900k yet or final bios microcodes for the 11700k but doing some thoughts I think this 11th gen is not going to be any better than 10900k for gaming.
> 
> Even if we have this ipc uplift to let's say 15%, but the latencies are higher plus 2 cores less than 10900k...
> 
> Is it not more or less the for gaming? Latencies is where intel beats amd for gaming as far as I know.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Frequency and latency yes is where Intel had the edge over AMD. Now that has narrowed. I expect the 11900k to beat AMD in quite a few titles. Intel and the mobo makers are better at fine tuning BIOS and boost algorithms. Most games still only use up to 8 physical cores.


----------



## robert98983

Hi,

Last two nights I did some basic benchmarking. (Windows 10, all services running etc.)
See my HWBOT profile for the scores 
https://hwbot.org/user/robert98983/#My_Submissions

Thing is safely clocked on All-core x51 1.35V

AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark if someone is interested:


----------



## bastian

robert98983 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Last two nights I did some basic benchmarking. (Windows 10, all services running etc.)
> See my HWBOT profile for the scores
> robert98983 @ HWBOT
> 
> Thing is safely clocked on All-core x51 1.35V
> 
> AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark if someone is interested:


I would double check your memory is in Gear 1 (1:1) and try boosting your North Bridge to 4.3ghz-4.5ghz


----------



## menko2

robert98983 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Last two nights I did some basic benchmarking. (Windows 10, all services running etc.)
> See my HWBOT profile for the scores
> robert98983 @ HWBOT
> 
> Thing is safely clocked on All-core x51 1.35V
> 
> AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark if someone is interested:


Man that doesn't look very good. 

I hope it can get better.


----------



## IronAge

He is on old Bios/MC Code and uses a mediocre memory kit, and owns a rather cheap Z590 Mobo.

SB fried his 11700K on a ASRock Z590 Taichi, most likely with very high SA/IO Voltage for Memory OC.

Some 11900KF have been available from a German etailer for 540€ and will be shipped as of today.


----------



## Talon2016

IronAge said:


> He is on old Bios/MC Code and uses a mediocre memory kit, and owns a rather cheap Z590 Mobo.
> 
> SB fried his 11700K on a ASRock Z590 Taichi, most likely with very high SA/IO Voltage for Memory OC.
> 
> Some 11900KF have been available from a German etailer for 540€ and will be shipped as of today.


What voltage killed the IMC. That is alarming.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> its a preset default.


Yes it's a question how good a Board can handle this, as example the Apex XII does this very fine at 4500/4600 it's in my case not really necessary to fix this values.


----------



## Falkentyne

robert98983 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Last two nights I did some basic benchmarking. (Windows 10, all services running etc.)
> See my HWBOT profile for the scores
> https://hwbot.org/user/robert98983/#My_Submissions
> 
> Thing is safely clocked on All-core x51 1.35V
> 
> AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark if someone is interested:


Can you do 5200 all core?


----------



## Nizzen

What does this mean?


----------



## roooo

robert98983 said:


> (...)
> Thing is safely clocked on All-core x51 1.35V


How far can you go with HTT disabled?


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> What does this mean?
> 
> View attachment 2482975


Pretty sure the 11900K/F will auto to gear 1 in bios till 3200, all the other chips will auto to gear 2 at that speed.


----------



## FlanK3r

But it works OK with 3200 MHz (manually) on 11700KF also, what I tried few weeks ago 

btw @robert98983 if u can, try to find newer BIOS. It helps with performance a little.


----------



## Nizzen

FlanK3r said:


> But it works OK with 3200 MHz (manually) on 11700KF also, what I tried few weeks ago
> 
> btw @robert98983 if u can, try to find newer BIOS. It helps with performance a little.


3733 manual 1:1 works on my 11700k. Looks like 3733mhz 1:1 is the hardwalll 
Max I got with 1:2 is 4533mhz. I have some good singlerank I will test later. 

I don't know how to get the REAL performance out of Rocketlake yet. Hope I (we) will find it soon


----------



## IronAge

Talon2016 said:


> What voltage killed the IMC. That is alarming.


Think its been on Auto, so it is more or less an assumption.

But these boards tend to set SA/IO way to high, especially on XMP Profile without manual re-adjusting.

Since Nick Shih left ASRock its not the same quality any more, remember Z170M/Z170 OC Formula and predecessors.

I guess the owner will have a hard time getting a replacement from Intel soon since the CPUs are not available officially.


----------



## D-EJ915

IronAge said:


> Since Nick Shih left ASRock its not the same quality any more, remember Z170M/Z170 OC Formula and predecessors.


Ah man that sucks, I was wondering why there was no new OCF models, the X99 and X299 ones are pretty nice.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Think its been on Auto, so it is more or less an assumption.
> 
> But these boards tend to set SA/IO way to high, especially on XMP Profile without manual re-adjusting.
> 
> Since Nick Shih left ASRock its not the same quality any more, remember Z170M/Z170 OC Formula and predecessors.
> 
> I guess the owner will have a hard time getting a replacement from Intel soon since the CPUs are not available officially.


@coolice 
🤭


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 3733 manual 1:1 works on my 11700k. Looks like 3733mhz 1:1 is the hardwalll
> Max I got with 1:2 is 4533mhz. I have some good singlerank I will test later.
> 
> I don't know how to get the REAL performance out of Rocketlake yet. Hope I (we) will find it soon


3866 is doable. 

4k is bootable. but this one ill advice as the amount of sa/io.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> 3866 is doable.
> 
> 4k is bootable. but this one ill advice as the amount of sa/io.


The amount of IO/SA to boot at 4k might kill the chip. Not smart to try unless you are sub-zero.


----------



## cstkl1

3733 aint a hardwall


----------



## slayer6288

cstkl1 said:


> 3733 aint a hardwall


on gear down 1 mode u dunce he even said he can do 4533 in gd2 sheesh read please


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> 3733 aint a hardwall


Why not show the performance in Aida or other programs? 🤔


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Why not show the performance in Aida or other programs? 🤔


cause other board vendors

and

30th.. only performance numbers

i did show is 6xk on all 3 right... read, write,copy


----------



## Nizzen

125 bclk


----------



## robert98983

Falkentyne said:


> Can you do 5200 all core?


x52 goes BSOD on 1.35/1.40/1.42. Didn't tried further.


----------



## robert98983

FlanK3r said:


> But it works OK with 3200 MHz (manually) on 11700KF also, what I tried few weeks ago
> 
> btw @robert98983 if u can, try to find newer BIOS. It helps with performance a little.


It's already the newest one from AsRock itself.


----------



## robert98983

roooo said:


> How far can you go with HTT disabled?


Didn't had time to check it. Pretty busy at work and sleepless nights aren't helping 😅


----------



## roooo

robert98983 said:


> Didn't had time to check it. Pretty busy at work and sleepless nights aren't helping 😅


Sleep, as eating and drinking, are highly overrated  

Sad to see you get BSOD at x52. If you should find the time to test without HTT, it'd be both interesting and much appreciated ;-)


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## robert98983

roooo said:


> Sleep, as eating and drinking, are highly overrated
> 
> Sad to see you get BSOD at x52. If you should find the time to test without HTT, it'd be both interesting and much appreciated ;-)


Will check next week. Weekend out of home 👌


----------



## cstkl1

eh this is new
intel performance maximizer software

pdf


https://downloadmirror.intel.com/30281/eng/11th%20Gen%20Core%20Processors%20v1.4.10100%20IPM%20Release%20Notes.pdf



software








Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors


Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ i9/i7/i5 Processors (Rocket Lake) – K SKUs




downloadcenter.intel.com


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> eh this is new
> intel performance maximizer software
> 
> pdf
> 
> 
> https://downloadmirror.intel.com/30281/eng/11th%20Gen%20Core%20Processors%20v1.4.10100%20IPM%20Release%20Notes.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors
> 
> 
> Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ i9/i7/i5 Processors (Rocket Lake) – K SKUs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> downloadcenter.intel.com


Good find.

I have never been a big fan of software overclock-performance uplift but who knows. We might get surprised with this tool.

Anyone has tested it with the 11700k?


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> eh this is new
> intel performance maximizer software
> 
> pdf
> 
> 
> https://downloadmirror.intel.com/30281/eng/11th%20Gen%20Core%20Processors%20v1.4.10100%20IPM%20Release%20Notes.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors
> 
> 
> Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ i9/i7/i5 Processors (Rocket Lake) – K SKUs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> downloadcenter.intel.com


Thanks. As a 95% Linux user I did not know there's such software. Linux loads can be quite a bit different from Windows but I guess I'm gonna give it a go and then see if the Windows-stable OC is Linux-stable as well.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> eh this is new
> intel performance maximizer software
> 
> pdf
> 
> 
> https://downloadmirror.intel.com/30281/eng/11th%20Gen%20Core%20Processors%20v1.4.10100%20IPM%20Release%20Notes.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> software
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors
> 
> 
> Intel® Performance Maximizer for 11th Generation Intel® Core™ i9/i7/i5 Processors (Rocket Lake) – K SKUs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> downloadcenter.intel.com


The journey stopped fast: 7 GB free space on non-removable GPT drive 😂

Can I use a USB drive? If not, f c k it


----------



## Nizzen

XMP with roundtrip enabled.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> XMP with roundtrip enabled.
> View attachment 2483080


turnaround needs tightening


Nizzen said:


> The journey stopped fast: 7 GB free space on non-removable GPT drive 😂
> 
> Can I use a USB drive? If not, f c k it


errr i am not installing that.. by the sheer size.. we can already guess its gonna screw up windows

and windows nowadays .. if u mess with EFI will just mess everything from booting etc.. even when that windows is not installed.. and even after u clear all the keys.. sometimes it just goes haywire until u fresh install a new windows with no other storage connected...

so dat software.. my 19th sense is saying.. it will screw up windows...


----------



## bastian

Nizzen said:


> XMP with roundtrip enabled.
> View attachment 2483080


Where did you get 0031 BIOS? Latest I've seen from shamino for my Z490 Extreme is 2009.


----------



## Nizzen

bastian said:


> Where did you get 0031 BIOS? Latest I've seen from shamino for my Z490 Extreme is 2009.


From the one and only 









ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0031.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Nizzen

Trying my old 4500 Team extreem Single rank: "Stock" 4533 with trfc 380:


----------



## Nizzen

Stock cpu








11700k @ 5ghz all core + 45 cache


----------



## bastian

Nizzen said:


> From the one and only
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0031.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


I assume that is newer than 2009?

Have to see if there is one for the Z490 Extreme!


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> Stock cpu
> View attachment 2483144
> 
> 11700k @ 5ghz all core + 45 cache
> 
> View attachment 2483149


Any tuning of subtimings for this or just stock subs?


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> Any tuning of subtimings for this or just stock subs?


Trc 400, rest stock subtimings. Trying to learn this strange cpu 😅

The strange thing is that I can't find the performance in games... Slower than my 5900x with 3600c14 memory in tombraider. Slower than 10900k with average memoryspeed.
On par in Farcry 5 with 5900x.

Is there any other games that like Rocketlake better than 10900k/5900x? For now, RocketLake looks like a scam....

I'm trying my best here, but the performance is VERY hidden 
19% ipc where are you?


----------



## Antsu

Nizzen said:


> The strange thing is that I can't find the performance in games... Slower than my 5900x with 3600c14 memory in tombraider. Slower than 10900k with average memoryspeed.
> On par in Farcry 5 with 5900x.


Subtimings tightened on 5900X system? They do give a significant boost, try to tighten them first. Start with tFAW 16, IIRC that alone had massive gains on previous generations.


----------



## Nizzen

Antsu said:


> Subtimings tightened on 5900X system? They do give a significant boost, try to tighten them first. Start with tFAW 16, IIRC that alone had massive gains on previous generations.


Are you talking about tFAW on 11700k?

My 11700k is slower than my 5900x system


----------



## Antsu

Nizzen said:


> Are you talking about tFAW on 11700k?


Yeah. I meant that if you have subtimings tightened on 5900X system and 11700K is still on auto, its not any miracle its worse.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> I'm trying my best here, but the performance is VERY hidden
> 19% ipc where are you?


But you do realize that you're comparing i7 with i9, with the latter having two more cores and clocking significantly higher?!


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> But you do realize that you're comparing i7 with i9, with the latter having two more cores and clocking significantly higher?!


I know....


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> I know....


If you had too much spare time you could just compare both at the same # of cores and the same fixed clock... 
I would give that a go but unfortunately my 11900k did not arrive yet.


----------



## Antsu

roooo said:


> But you do realize that you're comparing i7 with i9, with the latter having two more cores and clocking significantly higher?!


SOTR might scale with 10 cores a tiny bit, but atleast FC5 doesnt care if you have 6 or 10 cores, so it's good for this purpose. Most 10900Ks will do 5.3-5.4Ghz with good cooling, if 11th gen can only do 5Ghz then it should be compared to that IMO. But I must say that in my experience the first batches can be a little rough, my launch day 8700K did 5.0Ghz on same voltage as my later sample did 5.3Ghz...


----------



## roooo

Antsu said:


> Most 10900Ks will do 5.3-5.4Ghz with good cooling, if 11th gen can only do 5Ghz then it should be compared to that IMO.


Mine wouldn't go stable past 5.2GHz at 10C/20T with a very potent custom loop, but I am able to run it 10C/10T at 5.3GHz stable 24/7.


----------



## Antsu

roooo said:


> Mine wouldn't go stable past 5.2GHz at 10C/20T with a very potent custom loop, but I am able to run it 10C/10T at 5.3GHz stable 24/7.


Indeed. HT is useless for gaming so I didn't even remember it existed tbh


----------



## roooo

Antsu said:


> Indeed. HT is useless for gaming so I didn't even remember it existed tbh


Hehe yeah...it would gain me a couple of minutes when compiling a Linux kernel, but for most of real world usage I insist on being able to notice the higher snappiness of the extra 100MHz...


----------



## Nizzen

4800 tweaked


----------



## Nizzen

3dmark.com







www.3dmark.com


----------



## xV Slayer

@cstkl1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373343386434998274


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> XMP with roundtrip enabled.
> View attachment 2483080


Hi /This is dual rank memory? rocket lake can run DR cr1?


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> Hi /This is dual rank memory? rocket lake can run DR cr1?


Singlerank 
RCL don't like dualrank yet. Atleast for me here. 4266 max for now with dualrank.


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2483196


You may be asked ( if you have time ) to run the Shadow Tomb Rider benchmark in gear 1 mode (3733 or 3600 14 14 dr) 5.0 core . 4.5 ring.
Lowest graphics settings + 720p + anti-aliasing disabled.
It is necessary to compare the summary table from other processors. Thank.


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> You may be asked ( if you have time ) to run the Shadow Tomb Rider benchmark in gear 1 mode (3733 or 3600 14 14 dr) 5.0 core . 4.5 ring.
> Lowest graphics settings + 720p + anti-aliasing disabled.
> It is necessary to compare the summary table from other processors. Thank.


Post the summary table here


----------



## 2500k_2

[QUOTE = "Nizzen, post: 28760484, member: 343974"]
Разместите сводную таблицу здесь 
[/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]


----------



## domdtxdissar

My 8core "5800x" Zen3 @ 5ghz allcore for comparison









And my 5950x when its maxed out and dont have half the CPU disabled:


----------



## bastian

xV Slayer said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373343386434998274


So basically don't use Gear 2 for gaming lol


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> My 8core "5800x" Zen3 @ 5ghz allcore for comparison
> View attachment 2483212
> 
> 
> And my 5950x when its maxed out and dont have half the CPU disabled:
> View attachment 2483213
> 
> View attachment 2483219


"Only" 127% more expensive than 11700kf


----------



## Nizzen

bastian said:


> So basically don't use Gear 2 for gaming lol


Depends on the memory speed/tweaks?


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> [QUOTE = "Nizzen, post: 28760484, member: 343974"]
> Разместите сводную таблицу здесь
> [/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]
> View attachment 2483209
> 
> View attachment 2483210


11700k 5ghz all core
1:2 4800c17-18 tweaket memory









1130fps max gpu 😅


----------



## Nizzen

Comparing an "old" 10900k score of mine vs 11700k:
Look @ combined score....









Result







www.3dmark.com


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> Singlerank
> RCL don't like dualrank yet. Atleast for me here. 4266 max for now with dualrank.


There's no problem with DR on this platform now.


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> There's no problem with DR on this platform now.
> 
> View attachment 2483226


That' like my 4266mhz dual rank, just tweaked.
Why are you "hiding" the rest? Got a small screenshot from Discord?

Looks like you aren't blocking me anymore


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> 11700k 5ghz all core
> 1:2 4800c17-18 tweaket memory
> View attachment 2483222
> 
> 
> 1130fps max gpu 😅


Thanks for the test. I have a feeling that Intel has taken a step back.


----------



## MoeBen

Latency is getting better and better for me had no time to test the delided chip again, but I will, I'm kinda sure it was mounting pressure


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> That' like my 4266mhz dual rank, just tweaked.
> Why are you "hiding" the rest? Got a small screenshot from Discord?
> 
> Looks like you aren't blocking me anymore


NDA. Can't show what settings I'm running.


----------



## 2500k_2

Falkentyne said:


> NDA. Can't show what settings I'm running.


you don't have to show. Just advise me what is better to buy now for games: Gs 10900k 5.5ghz 4600 cl16 dr or 11900k + 3733 cl14 dr (gear 1)


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> you don't have to show. Just advise me what is better to buy now for games: Gs 10900k 5.5ghz 4600 cl16 dr or 11900k + 3733 cl14 dr (gear 1)


10900k with Apex = win

But not in firestrike combined score


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> 10900k with Apex = win
> 
> But not in firestrike combined score


Thanks for the advice. May I ask you to run R20 on your 11700k 5.0core 4.5 ring. The results of the single and multithread are interesting.


----------



## Falkentyne

2500k_2 said:


> you don't have to show. Just advise me what is better to buy now for games: Gs 10900k 5.5ghz 4600 cl16 dr or 11900k + 3733 cl14 dr (gear 1)


For Minecraft? 11900k / 11700k


----------



## overkillandreww

hello everyone
guys can someone here confirm to me that the 11th gen memory and cache LATENCY is worse and step back or better than 10th gen ??? is so important for me cuz im gonna buy it
speakin aida64 mem latencys in very particular

and what do you suggest me to buy ? 10900K//10900KF+ APEX (z490 apex or z590 apex//extreme) ??? or 11900K//11900KF + APEX Z590 ??? i want the lowest latency , intel is really f**d my feelings with this step back sh-tt wthell is going on ???? i was thinking this time we gonna get the best overclocking monster from intel like they advertised 5.6GHZ with 5600MHZ memory !!!! was that 5600MHZ memory a LIIEE???


----------



## MoeBen

I got 5.3 all core on a 11700K pretty sure 11900K would do a bit better


----------



## cstkl1

overkillandreww said:


> hello everyone
> guys can someone here confirm to me that the 11th gen memory and cache LATENCY is worse and step back or better than 10th gen ??? is so important for me cuz im gonna buy it
> speakin aida64 mem latencys in very particular
> 
> and what do you suggest me to buy ? 10900K//10900KF+ APEX (z490 apex or z590 apex//extreme) ??? or 11900K//11900KF + APEX Z590 ??? i want the lowest latency , intel is really f**d my feelings with this step back sh-tt wthell is going on ???? i was thinking this time we gonna get the best overclocking monster from intel like they advertised 5.6GHZ with 5600MHZ memory !!!! was that 5600MHZ memory a LIIEE???


hmmm
latency is what you are after 10900k+z490 apex. buy a sp 100 cpu
delid it. buy some dr 3800c14 kits

11th cpu oc. 5.3 needs baredie or very good silicon. 

ram 5600 on SR djr but DR in my opinion destroys this at much lower clock. 1:2 high clock beats 1:1. 

against a tuned 10900k.. hmm no comment

but it seems like alot of ppl dont actually game alot to come across the previous gen flaws.


----------



## bastian

MoeBen said:


> I got 5.3 all core on a 11700K pretty sure 11900K would do a bit better


Voltage?


----------



## MoeBen

1.56V


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> 1.56V


what LL. whats your vmin under load bro??


----------



## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> what LL. whats your vmin under load bro??


LLC 4 Vmin under load 1.52


----------



## o1dschoo1

Yall slapping 1.5+ through a 14nm cpu? Wonder how long thats gonna last...


----------



## MoeBen

I'm not suggesting its safe, but I really don't care I am planing on getting a 11900K this chip was my guinea pig 

Overall RL seems to like current


----------



## fenriquez

cstkl1 said:


> hmmm
> latency is what you are after 10900k+z490 apex. buy a sp 100 cpu
> delid it. buy some dr 3800c14 kits
> 
> 11th cpu oc. 5.3 needs baredie or very good silicon.
> 
> ram 5600 on SR djr but DR in my opinion destroys this at much lower clock. 1:2 high clock beats 1:1.
> 
> against a tuned 10900k.. hmm no comment
> 
> but it seems like alot of ppl dont actually game alot to come across the previous gen flaws.


What previous gen flaws for gaming do you speak of??


----------



## cstkl1

fenriquez said:


> What previous gen flaws for gaming do you speak of??


cpu parity error. 

even i have not 100% nailed this down. 
its getting more apparent now with latest games.


----------



## overkillandreww

cstkl1 said:


> hmmm
> latency is what you are after 10900k+z490 apex. buy a sp 100 cpu
> delid it. buy some dr 3800c14 kits
> 
> 11th cpu oc. 5.3 needs baredie or very good silicon.
> 
> ram 5600 on SR djr but DR in my opinion destroys this at much lower clock. 1:2 high clock beats 1:1.
> 
> against a tuned 10900k.. hmm no comment
> 
> but it seems like alot of ppl dont actually game alot to come across the previous gen flaws.


thanks for the answer but sorry i didnt understand some of the things you said
i just want to know finally after all does 11th gen have LOWER MEMORY AND CACHE LATENCY than 10th gen or not ? is 11900K faster or 10900K? 11700K faster or 10700K ?

before they start to sell these 11th gen cpus recently motherboard manufacturers were talkin about memory overclockings of 5600MHZ+ on their high-end motherboards companys like asus and msi
but NOW i see people are talkin about frequencies with with strugglings like from 3733-4266 to 4800 at highest which doesnt even have surprising results in AIDA64.

but intel hyped us for ez 5.3MHZ++ cpu clocks and ez 5000MHZ+ memory speeds , so the questions is WHAT IS GOING ON ??!!


----------



## Nizzen

fenriquez said:


> What previous gen flaws for gaming do you speak of??


Must be the Minecraft flaw 🤣


----------



## Nizzen

overkillandreww said:


> thanks for the answer but sorry i didnt understand some of the things you said
> i just want to know finally after all does 11th gen have LOWER MEMORY AND CACHE LATENCY than 10th gen or not ? is 11900K faster or 10900K? 11700K faster or 10700K ?
> 
> before they start to sell these 11th gen cpus recently motherboard manufacturers were talkin about memory overclockings of 5600MHZ+ on their high-end motherboards companys like asus and msi
> but NOW i see people are talkin about frequencies with with strugglings like from 3733-4266 to 4800 at highest which doesnt even have surprising results in AIDA64.
> 
> but intel hyped us for ez 5.3MHZ++ cpu clocks and ez 5000MHZ+ memory speeds , so the questions is WHAT IS GOING ON ??!!


Rocketlake has 20% higher latency on Level 1 cache vs 10900k. That's driving me crazy


----------



## overkillandreww

MoeBen said:


> LLC 4 Vmin under load 1.52


man lol what the F 1.5+ VOLTS ? for 5.3 on 11700k? what is happening man ,whats been voltages for 10th gen stable all core oc @5.3 5.5 ? because im coming from X299 platform iv never had dual channel platform its my first time that im gonna buy a Z series


----------



## overkillandreww

Nizzen said:


> Rocketlake has 20% higher latency on Level 1 cache vs 10900k. That's driving me crazy


man this is nightmare, have we entered cpu hell now? like the gpu hell that we have now ? 
i cant believe intel 11th gen is a step back even more than 1 step bnack if it is 20% worse latency as u say
have yo uactually bought any 11gen urself yet ? are they gonna fix anything?is it just a bios/microcode/or any software problem or it is really slower latency than 10th gen ?: (


----------



## MoeBen

overkillandreww said:


> man lol what the F 1.5+ VOLTS ? for 5.3 on 11700k? what is happening man ,whats been voltages for 10th gen stable all core oc @5.3 5.5 ? because im coming from X299 platform iv never had dual channel platform its my first time that im gonna buy a Z series


10900k did 5.3 all cores @ 1.375 Rock stable


----------



## overkillandreww

MoeBen said:


> 10900k did 5.3 all cores @ 1.375 Rock stable


wow and thats even 10 core,now that i wanted to buy the low latency platform dual channel series we got this sh-t , is 11900K any better so ? and i wasnt even thinkin about 5.3 i was thinkin to get this 11900K for @ 5.5 all core oc 24/7 stability


----------



## Nizzen

overkillandreww said:


> man this is nightmare, have we entered cpu hell now? like the gpu hell that we have now ?
> i cant believe intel 11th gen is a step back even more than 1 step bnack if it is 20% worse latency as u say
> have yo uactually bought any 11gen urself yet ? are they gonna fix anything?is it just a bios/microcode/or any software problem or it is really slower latency than 10th gen ?: (


Yes I bought 11700k retail in Norway, so it wasn't just the German e-tailer that sold them LOL. Already preordered a few 11900k's to test for fun. Confirmed delivery day 1  (release date)

We don't know how good/bad 11900k is yet. My bet is it aint going to be many % better than 11700k. Delidding is the way to go on this platform anyway. Direct die on 10900k is pretty much essensial for 5.4ghz +


----------



## MoeBen

Nizzen said:


> Yes I bought 11700k retail in Norway, so it wasn't just the German e-tailer that sold them LOL. Already preordered a few 11900k's to test for fun. Confirmed delivery day 1  (release date)


Keep us posted Nizzen


----------



## overkillandreww

Nizzen said:


> Yes I bought 11700k retail in Norway, so it wasn't just the German e-tailer that sold them LOL. Already preordered a few 11900k's to test for fun. Confirmed delivery day 1  (release date)
> 
> We don't know how good/bad 11900k is yet. My bet is it aint going to be many % better than 11700k. Delidding is the way to go on this platform anyway. Direct die on 10900k is pretty much essensial for 5.4ghz +


oh thats nice man wow so you are a pro overclocker im talking to a super enthusiast thats so cool NICE TO MEET YOU MATE : )
so youv had pre ordered a COUPLE of 11900Ks for your testings for the day1 im pretty surprised and waiting to see all your results

mate i didnt even know that i have to delidd them this time pppfffff arent they soldered? i have a 7820X ( on apex vi x299) my self and i had to delid it twice 2 years ago and i didnt have much difference in temps i dont know still if it is my chip itself that is so hot or my cooling (but i have tested on 2 different aio coolers already but any way)

ah im so lazy for deliding and direct die this time xxDDD i dont know maybe i have to go for it finally , but the problem is that L1 cache has that slower latencyy my godd i dont like that .....


----------



## overkillandreww

MoeBen said:


> Keep us posted Nizzen


oh hey moeben just now 1 min ago i opened the last video of derbauer youtube and he just mentioned a guys name moeben from overclock .net that he has delided a 11700K XXDDD WOW is itttttt YOU ??  :O
you are in roman video LOL cant believe it he just said it at the beggining of the video and i was like for a sec whatt?!! this name is familiar for me and then when he said "FROM OVERCLOCK . NET i paused it immediatley to come here again and check ur name ahahahahaaaaaaa


----------



## cstkl1

overkillandreww said:


> thanks for the answer but sorry i didnt understand some of the things you said
> i just want to know finally after all does 11th gen have LOWER MEMORY AND CACHE LATENCY than 10th gen or not ? is 11900K faster or 10900K? 11700K faster or 10700K ?
> 
> before they start to sell these 11th gen cpus recently motherboard manufacturers were talkin about memory overclockings of 5600MHZ+ on their high-end motherboards companys like asus and msi
> but NOW i see people are talkin about frequencies with with strugglings like from 3733-4266 to 4800 at highest which doesnt even have surprising results in AIDA64.
> 
> but intel hyped us for ez 5.3MHZ++ cpu clocks and ez 5000MHZ+ memory speeds , so the questions is WHAT IS GOING ON ??!!


huh?
where did u see INTEL hype?? 

are u confusing with Giga/Msi. ?? 
also seems like you cant diff how bad their clocks from their supposedly hci stable. 
10900k also requires same level of tweaking for it to beat zen 3. 

if plug and play and decent ram 3600... 

i suggest zen 3 dark hero combo.

these guys comparing here are not ure avg 10900k setup.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Must be the Minecraft flaw 🤣


apex Legend, warzone, ghostrunner

alot of new games with RT especially with DLSS 2.. 

the number of threads popping up even 9900k is increasing because of this. 

again what do GN and idiotubers know right.

in m12e 10900 k i solved it to 99% confidence. heck can even run cache/cpu equal for benching thanks to that but hmm that 1% game crashes with no even error popping up.. so not perfect. 

RKL has no flaw like this. no L0 also.


----------



## cstkl1

overkillandreww said:


> oh thats nice man wow so you are a pro overclocker im talking to a super enthusiast thats so cool NICE TO MEET YOU MATE : )
> so youv had pre ordered a COUPLE of 11900Ks for your testings for the day1 im pretty surprised and waiting to see all your results
> 
> mate i didnt even know that i have to delidd them this time pppfffff arent they soldered? i have a 7820X ( on apex vi x299) my self and i had to delid it twice 2 years ago and i didnt have much difference in temps i dont know still if it is my chip itself that is so hot or my cooling (but i have tested on 2 different aio coolers already but any way)
> 
> ah im so lazy for deliding and direct die this time xxDDD i dont know maybe i have to go for it finally , but the problem is that L1 cache has that slower latencyy my godd i dont like that .....


err youtubers are lukers in forums . thats why it became a situation no point sharing when ppl idolize these fools. 

take the famous one trending atm. buildzoid.


----------



## overkillandreww

cstkl1 said:


> huh?
> where did u see INTEL hype??
> 
> are u confusing with Giga/Msi. ??
> also seems like you cant diff how bad their clocks from their supposedly hci stable.
> 10900k also requires same level of tweaking for it to beat zen 3.
> 
> if plug and play and decent ram 3600...
> 
> i suggest zen 3 dark hero combo.
> 
> these guys comparing here are not ure avg 10900k setup.


 friend thanks i dont know if its ur english or what but i dont think anyone understands what u want to say exactlly
and my setup wont be average 10900k i always look for fastest cpu and memorys and i dont like amd and msi ....


----------



## overkillandreww

cstkl1 said:


> err youtubers are lukers in forums . thats why it became a situation no point sharing when ppl idolize these fools.
> 
> take the famous one trending atm. buildzoid.


??????????????????


----------



## cstkl1

overkillandreww said:


> friend thanks i dont know if its ur english or what but i dont think anyone understands what u want to say exactlly
> and my setup wont be average 10900k i always look for fastest cpu and memorys and i dont like amd and msi ....


cause ure posting is plug and play like comment. throwing money at it.

cause i cant discern your hmm knowledge atm.

reminds me that fan of ures @Nizzen 
framechaser


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


> in m12e 10900 k i solved it to 99% confidence. heck can even run cache/cpu equal for benching thanks to that but hmm that 1% game crashes with no even error popping up.. so not perfect.


Was 10900k any better in this regard compared to 9900k, 8700k, 7700k and 6700k?


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> Was 10900k any better in this regard compared to 9900k, 8700k, 7700k and 6700k?


i was on hedt. 
based on my oced 10700k. 
on nfs heat, v2 and overwatch 
no

but i recommended 10900k for the ease to find a 5.1> oc . 

10700k silicon lottery = 9900k
10700k was also easier on 4dimm ram oc btw than 10900k

there was discern-able diff vs 8700k oced.


----------



## MoeBen

overkillandreww said:


> oh hey moeben just now 1 min ago i opened the last video of derbauer youtube and he just mentioned a guys name moeben from overclock .net that he has delided a 11700K XXDDD WOW is itttttt YOU ??  :O
> you are in roman video LOL cant believe it he just said it at the beggining of the video and i was like for a sec whatt?!! this name is familiar for me and then when he said "FROM OVERCLOCK . NET i paused it immediatley to come here again and check ur name ahahahahaaaaaaa


yeah thats me, lots of YouTube/Media doing news about this lol I'm not even sure the chip died lol


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


> i was on hedt.
> based on my oced 10700k.
> on nfs heat, v2 and overwatch
> no
> 
> but i recommended 10900k for the ease to find a 5.1> oc .
> 
> 10700k silicon lottery = 9900k
> 10700k was also easier on 4dimm ram oc btw than 10900k
> 
> there was discern-able diff vs 8700k oced.


Sorry, I was talking about the parity error WHEAs within the skylake core/cache. I suppose it's just as bad on 10th gen as previous gens...


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> Sorry, I was talking about the parity error WHEAs within the skylake core/cache. I suppose it's just as bad on 10th gen as previous gens...


yeah they all have it.


----------



## Falkentyne

fenriquez said:


> What previous gen flaws for gaming do you speak of??


CPU Parity Error--something to do with low level cache problems. Parity errors that are reported are corrected by the CPU ECC. Ones that get through will crash your games.

CPU Cache L0 error--instability with the duplicated register store (virtual registers) on hyperthreaded enabled chips. Oddly enough this won't crash your games. It will just BSOD you. It acts like a RAM error.


----------



## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> LLC 4 Vmin under load 1.52


BS.
that's not stable.

Please run Cinebench R20 with hwinfo64 open and make sure NONE Of your cores are dropping below 5300 mhz.
Please post your CB score at the end 

Only SP 100 chips can do this....isn't your chip SP78 or something?


----------



## menko2

MoeBen said:


> yeah thats me, lots of YouTube/Media doing news about this lol I'm not even sure the chip died lol


I pre-ordered two 11900k. 

For what i can read here for users of the 11700k gaming will be better in the 10900k right? What a shame all this wait for rocket lake.


----------



## MoeBen

Falkentyne said:


> BS.
> that's not stable.
> 
> Please run Cinebench R20 with hwinfo64 open and make sure NONE Of your cores are dropping below 5300 mhz.
> Please post your CB score at the end
> 
> Only SP 100 chips can do this....isn't your chip SP78 or something?


I can run benchmarks and I never said that it was stable calm down m8 ROFL 😂


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> cpu parity error.
> 
> even i have not 100% nailed this down.
> its getting more apparent now with latest games.


I think that L0 cache errors are becoming more apparent as more games use AVX (e.g. DirectX12 games), and a general increase in general CPU demand (more hyperthreading needed). I thought I'd been running stable for months and then started playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider, which has been giving a level 0 cache error every few hours. I've been nudging Vcore up step by step, but still get them popping up occasionally. I'm not sure how much further I want to push up Vcore/LLC, or whether to just bite the bullet and drop CPU ratio down a notch (which does fix it). Lowering my RAM OC and cache ratio didn't eradicate the L0 errors so it is pointing to Vcore/CPU clock. I could also disable HT, but that's cheating, and brings a performance loss in highly threaded games compared to just dropping clock ratio by one.


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> I think that L0 cache errors are becoming more apparent as more games use AVX (e.g. DirectX12 games), and a general increase in general CPU demand (more hyperthreading needed). I thought I'd been running stable for months and then started playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider, which has been giving a level 0 cache error every few hours. I've been nudging Vcore up step by step, but still get them popping up occasionally. I'm not sure how much further I want to push up Vcore/LLC, or whether to just bite the bullet and drop CPU ratio down a notch (which does fix it). Lowering my RAM OC and cache ratio didn't eradicate the L0 errors so it is pointing to Vcore/CPU clock. I could also disable HT, but that's cheating, and brings a performance loss in highly threaded games compared to just dropping clock ratio by one.


L0 error easy to solve. 
its the false state of stability

that cpu parity error.. thats the difficult one.
its part turnaround issue


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> apex Legend, warzone, ghostrunner


I have no issues with these games @ 5.4Ghz HT off. I must admit that I used to have to drop my CPU by 1 multi when playing Apex to eliminate the very rare random crashes, but I am quite sure that is fixed now that I actually have my CPU stable, but can't confirm as I don't play it anymore. I have hundreds of hours of Warzone played tho, and not a single crash from CPU. OFC it's nice that this isn't a possibility on RKL, but what is the point if it's slower anyway than an actually stable OC on previous chips? Are you saying that these crashes can happen on a rock stable OC?


----------



## Antsu

fray_bentos said:


> I could also disable HT, but that's cheating, and brings a performance loss in highly threaded games compared to just dropping clock ratio by one.


Care to give a few examples where HT helps? I've found it to be useless or even have a negative impact in my use cases.


http://imgur.com/a/B0kRHqR


----------



## YaqY

@Nizzen Appreciate the benches, have you tested SOTTR with ht off, this may let you clock your core higher and it benches better in SOTTR with ht off. Also is it possible to run 800x600 lowest with AA/TAA off, just for comparison, Thanks.


----------



## cstkl1

Antsu said:


> I have no issues with these games @ 5.4Ghz HT off. I must admit that I used to have to drop my CPU by 1 multi when playing Apex to eliminate the very rare random crashes, but I am quite sure that is fixed now that I actually have my CPU stable, but can't confirm as I don't play it anymore. I have hundreds of hours of Warzone played tho, and not a single crash from CPU. OFC it's nice that this isn't a possibility on RKL, but what is the point if it's slower anyway than an actually stable OC on previous chips? Are you saying that these crashes can happen on a rock stable OC?


think u saw falken explanation. all of it happens with ht.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Antsu said:


> Care to give a few examples where HT helps? I've found it to be useless or even have a negative impact in my use cases.


Yes some game's like Cyberpunk, csgo, BF5, i think.
And it's better to have less frametimespike's, as to have some FPS more without HT.

The best benchsetting isnt equal "the best playable."


----------



## Antsu

PhoenixMDA said:


> Yes some game's like Cyberpunk, csgo, BF5, i think.
> And it's better to have less frametimespike's, as to have some FPS more without HT.
> 
> The best benchsetting isnt equal "the best playable."


I know for a fact CS:GO doesn't care about HT, if anything it makes the performance worse. Don't have Cyberpunk installed ATM, but I remember testing in some areas where CPU usage was 90%+ with HT off and turning HT on did nothing. Don't know about BF5 as I don't own it, in that game it might actually help but I doubt it. I am not a benchmarker, but a gamer and trust me, I know the importance of stable frametime. I would never sacrifice the stability of frametimes for a higher number on my monitoring program. But in any case, let's not turn this thread into a HT debate, everyone can use the settings they want to. Personally I've just never had a situation where it would benefit me, but maybe the games I play just happen to be like that.


----------



## fray_bentos

Antsu said:


> Care to give a few examples where HT helps? I've found it to be useless or even have a negative impact in my use cases.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/B0kRHqR


I was pretty sure that AC: Origins, Odyssey, and Battlefield all benefit from HT. However, I am on a 10600K, so the extra threads will count more than with an 8+ core CPU. For my 6C/12T CPU, I found that AC:Odyssey gave the same benchmark score, but worse minimums at 5.1 GHz all core HT off, vs. 4.9 GHz HT on (10600K RTX 3080). It's the minimums that really count.

Here is a recent video; it depends on the game, in some cases big swings either way! However, I am sure that the swing will be larger with HT off for my measly 10600K.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Antsu said:


> I know for a fact CS:GO doesn't care about HT, if anything it makes the performance worse. Don't have Cyberpunk installed ATM, but I remember testing in some areas where CPU usage was 90%+ with HT off and turning HT on did nothing. Don't know about BF5 as I don't own it, in that game it might actually help but I doubt it. I am not a benchmarker, but a gamer and trust me, I know the importance of stable frametime. I would never sacrifice the stability of frametimes for a higher number on my monitoring program. But in any case, let's not turn this thread into a HT debate, everyone can use the settings they want to. Personally I've just never had a situation where it would benefit me, but maybe the games I play just happen to be like that.


You are wrong i have tested these games and more, in some Benchmark threads.But the most cases is without faster like Forza 4.

But the FPS is not important , with HT you have in some games less or no frametimespikes and that is the thing, why i have it enable.


----------



## fray_bentos

I was curious so just checked this myself in the two most CPU-demanding games that I play (with the game settings that I actually use to play). I get better results with HT on, but there may be no benefit / penalty to having HT on with CPUs with higher core counts.

10600K 4.9 GHz all core (0AVX offset), 3900 MHz RAM 14-15-15-33, RTX 3080 FE.

*AC: Odyssey*
HT ON / OFF
Ave: 99 / 91
Min: 66 / 61
Max: 152 / 140

*SoTR* (retail game benchmark)
CPU frametimes are faster (green line is lower) with HT ON (top) vs. HT OFF (bottom). CPU render becomes the (CPU-side) bottleneck with HT OFF, while CPU game and CPU render are more evenly matched with HT ON. If I lowered my resolution/settings the GPU bottleneck would shift onto CPU render, making HT OFF impact frametimes more than with HT ON.

HT ON









HT OFF


----------



## YaqY

fray_bentos said:


> I was curious so just checked this myself in the two most CPU-demanding games that I play (with the game settings that I actually use to play). I get better results with HT on, but there may be no benefit / penalty to having HT on with CPUs with higher core counts.
> 
> 10600K 4.9 GHz all core (0AVX offset), 3900 MHz RAM 14-15-15-33, RTX 3080 FE.
> 
> *AC: Odyssey*
> HT ON / OFF
> Ave: 99 / 91
> Min: 66 / 61
> Max: 152 / 140
> 
> *SoTR* (retail game benchmark)
> CPU frametimes are faster (green line is lower) with HT ON (top) vs. HT OFF (bottom). CPU render becomes the (CPU-side) bottleneck with HT OFF, while CPU game and CPU render are more evenly matched with HT ON. If I lowered my resolution/settings the GPU bottleneck would shift onto CPU render, making HT OFF impact frametimes more than with HT ON.
> 
> HT ON
> View attachment 2483289
> 
> 
> HT OFF
> View attachment 2483290


You are benching in a gpu bound scenario, and also on a 6 core cpu.


----------



## cstkl1

hope ppl will stop using SOTR for RKL.. but guess that aint gonna happen

Stock Strix 3080
this was very early benchmarks anyway its buggy.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> hope ppl will stop using SOTR for RKL.. but guess that aint gonna happen


But I *need *200 FPS in a single player action/adventure 
/s


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> hope ppl will stop using SOTR for RKL.. but guess that aint gonna happen
> 
> Stock Strix 3080
> this was very early benchmarks anyway its buggy.


Extremely Fast.


----------



## fray_bentos

YaqY said:


> You are benching in a gpu bound scenario, and also on a 6 core cpu.


Irrelevant for SoTR, ignore the FPS and red GPU lines. It shows the equivalent "CPU framerates" = 1/frametime in the bottom right, and as green lines on the graphs. Yes, I am well aware it is 6-core... huh.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> hope ppl will stop using SOTR for RKL.. but guess that aint gonna happen
> 
> Stock Strix 3080
> this was very early benchmarks anyway its buggy.


plz test 720p lowest presset ? anti-aliasing - off / and show version game


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> 11700k 5ghz all core
> 1:2 4800c17-18 tweaket memory
> View attachment 2483222
> 
> 
> 1130fps max gpu 😅


For an 8 Core with only 5Ghz the Result is not bad, much more better than the first results.

In 24/7 with normal Voltage´s and 100% Rockstable, without crowbar.
[email protected]@High
an [email protected],2Ghz [email protected] does AVG arround 235FPS
an [email protected],2Ghz [email protected] does AVG arround 265FPS
For me is that the real power the 265FPS or 270FPS with 5,3Ghz.

Everytime it´s possible to do more this here is 5,5Ghz without HT and
stable 4700CL17-18.It´s also possible to do more FPS but this is then only benchstable.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> plz test 720p lowest presset ? anti-aliasing - off / and show version game


no. already stated long time ago. sotr is buggy on rkl. 480=720=1080p result and u get gpu bound.. 0%


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> no. already stated long time ago. sotr is buggy on rkl. 480=720=1080p result and u get gpu bound.. 0%


Lately when I bench for games i use Horizon Zero Dawn and AC Valhalla for example. Always 3dmark benchs as well.

Anyone has rocket lake and this games for testing and compare to the 10th gen and ryzens?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Lately when I bench for games i use Horizon Zero Dawn and AC Valhalla for example. Always 3dmark benchs as well.
> 
> Anyone has rocket lake and this games for testing and compare to the 10th gen and ryzens?


acV .. no point bro.. that game more GPu aka amd gpu dependent


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> acV .. no point bro.. that game more GPu aka amd gpu dependent


Yep, AC:V, there is no CPU scaling beyond 4C/4T, which is a major contrast to Origins and Odyssey.








Assassin's Creed Valhalla PC Performance Review and Optimization Guide | CPU Performance - Did Ubisoft Fix Assassin's Creed's CPU issues? | Software


CPU Performance - Did Ubisoft Fix Assassin's Creed's CPU issues?




www.overclock3d.net


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> Yep, AC:V, there is no CPU scaling beyond 4C/4T, which is a major contrast to Origins and Odyssey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assassin's Creed Valhalla PC Performance Review and Optimization Guide | CPU Performance - Did Ubisoft Fix Assassin's Creed's CPU issues? | Software
> 
> 
> CPU Performance - Did Ubisoft Fix Assassin's Creed's CPU issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock3d.net


tested that game 5900x, 10900k, 5600x, and ahem Test Cpu
with RTX 3080.. 1-2 fps variance at 1080p and 1440p..
cpu didnt do anything .
even ram jdec 2133 vs high ram clock .. nothing.

NFS heat loves this cpu. AVX games seems to love it ALOT


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> acV .. no point bro.. that game more GPu aka amd gpu dependent


I have compare the benchmarks from timespy and fire strike from the forum here with the 11700k with my 10900k @5.0.

So far the 10900k has better graphics results in a 3090 graphic card (a few things can differ depending of the 3090 model as every 3090 can behave different).

My mobo is z590 hero xiii and my 10900k has a SP 63. It doesn't Overclock very well.
A) I can still return the 10900k and get a better binned 10900k chip or
B) keep my pre-selling order of the 11900k.

For gaming what would you choose?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I have compare the benchmarks from timespy and fire strike from the forum here with the 11700k with my 10900k @5.0.
> 
> So far the 10900k has better graphics results in a 3090 graphic card (a few things can differ depending of the 3090 model as every 3090 can behave different).
> 
> My mobo is z590 hero xiii and my 10900k has a SP 63. It doesn't Overclock very well.
> A) I can still return the 10900k and get a better binned 10900k chip or
> B) keep my pre-selling order of the 11900k.
> 
> For gaming what would you choose?


pure gaming no fuss..
11900k
get a good dual dimm DJR
run that 4800CL19 or CL18.. done..


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> pure gaming no fuss..
> 11900k
> get a good dual dimm DJR
> run that 4800CL19 or CL18.. done..


I don't need 32gb for gaming so I can go for 16gb. The problem with going with 11900k is that on top of the price around 200€ difference i will have to buy a new RAM kit (currently i use samsung b die g.skill 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45v with the 10900k).

* F4-4800C18D-16GTRS @1.5v. hynix. Around 530€.

F4-4600C18D-16GTZR @1.45v. samsung. Around 440€.*

Is it worth the price to spend and which kit of this two? They are both ram-kits in the compability list of the mobo. The Samsung kit goes at 1.45v and looks a safer voltage.


----------



## Lownage

@cstkl1 is B-Die Dualrank any good with Rocket Lake? 
Just bought this kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZR (F4-4000C16D-32GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.).


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> @cstkl1 is B-Die Dualrank any good with Rocket Lake?
> Just bought this kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZR (F4-4000C16D-32GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.).


norm is 4266-4533

4600-4800 depends on the mobo
bdie is temp sensitive. 

djr not as much. 

thats good rams btw. 

1:2 u can use 1:100 and 1:133.. 

dual ranks trumps single on bandwidth especially copy.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I don't need 32gb for gaming so I can go for 16gb. The problem with going with 11900k is that on top of the price around 200€ difference i will have to buy a new RAM kit (currently i use samsung b die g.skill 3900mhz 14-15-15-35 @1.45v with the 10900k).
> 
> * F4-4800C18D-16GTRS @1.5v. hynix. Around 530€.
> 
> F4-4600C18D-16GTZR @1.45v. samsung. Around 440€.*
> 
> Is it worth the price to spend and which kit of this two? They are both ram-kits in the compability list of the mobo. The Samsung kit goes at 1.45v and looks a safer voltage.


those are all bdies bro

djr afaik for sr gskill is 4400c18d-16 (the heatsink alphabet) with C at the end

ripjaw version arnd usd 150-175.


----------



## Lownage

Already ordered a 11900K, now waiting for Apex to be released... "early Q2"


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> those are all bdies bro
> 
> djr afaik for sr gskill is 4400c18d-16 (the heatsink alphabet) with C at the end
> 
> ripjaw version arnd usd 150-175.


In my mobo compability list the higher-ends ones are this. But the description doesn't match (32gb and listed 2x8gb). That's why I'm confused.

Trying to find the one you sent me here in spain with no luck.

Any other djr you can recommend? Or go straight for the samsung's even they are not the best for rocket lake.


G.SKILLF4-4800C18D-32GTZR2x 8GB48004800SSSK Hynix18-26-26-461.51,2G.SKILLF4-4800C18D-32GTRS2x 8GB48004800SSSK Hynix


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> In my mobo compability list the higher-ends ones are this. But the description doesn't match (32gb and listed 2x8gb). That's why I'm confused.
> 
> Trying to find the one you sent me here in spain with no luck.
> 
> Any other djr you can recommend? Or go straight for the samsung's even they are not the best for rocket lake.
> 
> 
> G.SKILLF4-4800C18D-32GTZR2x 8GB48004800SSSK Hynix18-26-26-461.51,2G.SKILLF4-4800C18D-32GTRS2x 8GB48004800SSSK Hynix


those are not hynix. afaik.

these are


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> those are not hynix. afaik.
> 
> these are
> 
> View attachment 2483376
> 
> View attachment 2483377


The mobo compability list is not too big but it's not right. The better 4800mhz modules for the board don't even exist as you can see. 

Maybe just going for the dual rank someone posted here earlier today (F4-4000C16D-32GTZR samsung b die) might do the job just fine. I checked online and I can buy them in Spain (a challenge here to find certain things).


----------



## Nizzen

Lownage said:


> @cstkl1 is B-Die Dualrank any good with Rocket Lake?
> Just bought this kit: F4-4000C16D-32GTZR (F4-4000C16D-32GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.).


My b-die with rkl 11700k and Z490 Apex:


----------



## Kana Chan

Falkentyne said:


> NDA. Can't show what settings I'm running.


You have an ES chip or a retail one they sent you?


----------



## YaqY

Single rank djr and XII Apex with retail 11700k.


----------



## Talon2016

My local Microcenter has 5100Mhz CL19 Crucial Micron sticks in stock. Makes me want to go grab them seeing these crazy high memory overclocks. But they are super $$$$.


----------



## YaqY

Talon2016 said:


> My local Microcenter has 5100Mhz CL19 Crucial Micron sticks in stock. Makes me want to go grab them seeing these crazy high memory overclocks. But they are super $$$$.


Don't waste your money on those, get some 2x16 Crucial sticks, those 4000 and above are all Micron Rev B, Great for frequency .


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> My local Microcenter has 5100Mhz CL19 Crucial Micron sticks in stock. Makes me want to go grab them seeing these crazy high memory overclocks. But they are super $$$$.


edie...

they dont do DR


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> edie...
> 
> they dont do DR


Those aren't e-die, they are Micron Rev N, basically Micron Rev B SPD modded down to half density so 8gb sticks.


----------



## Talon2016

Lowest latency I can get so far. Would love to get sub 40ns.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2483417
> 
> 
> Lowest latency I can get so far. Would love to get sub 40ns.


This is 3600 1:1?
You should be able to get a little higher read, write and copy and a little lower latency if you can do 3733.
The same subs and terts should work that worked on Z490.


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> This is 3600 1:1?
> You should be able to get a little higher read, write and copy and a little lower latency if you can do 3733.
> The same subs and terts should work that worked on Z490.


3733 will not boot. Either I'm not pushing high enough SA/IO voltage or the IMC just sucks on this CPU. Hoping my 11900K is better binned.


----------



## IronAge

Yep. Left SA/IO @ Auto für 3866, setting both 1.25V has given me Post Code 55, Kit of 2x8GB Team Group Dark Pro 8Pack Ed. 3866 B-Die.


----------



## aznguyen316

YaqY said:


> Those aren't e-die, they are Micron Rev N, basically Micron Rev B SPD modded down to half density so 8gb sticks.





YaqY said:


> Don't waste your money on those, get some 2x16 Crucial sticks, those 4000 and above are all Micron Rev B, Great for frequency .


Any thoughts on Micron Rev E? I have some 2x16GB dual rank sticks 3000c15 stock but on a Ryzen build they did 3800c16-20-16-16 pretty easily never tried higher than that. Wonder if it could be worth trying those on RKL if I go that route.


----------



## YaqY

aznguyen316 said:


> Any thoughts on Micron Rev E? I have some 2x16GB dual rank sticks 3000c15 stock but on a Ryzen build they did 3800c16-20-16-16 pretty easily never tried higher than that. Wonder if it could be worth trying those on RKL if I go that route.


From what i have seen, Micron Rev B and Djr is better for higher clocks on Intel, but you could try it i guess, doesn't hurt.


----------



## aznguyen316

Ah Rev B. Okay if I go that route I may try. Might try to source some djr in the meantime.


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> Any thoughts on Micron Rev E? I have some 2x16GB dual rank sticks 3000c15 stock but on a Ryzen build they did 3800c16-20-16-16 pretty easily never tried higher than that. Wonder if it could be worth trying those on RKL if I go that route.


err dont do 1:1. 1:2 far superior


----------



## cstkl1

as usual






funny

intel WE must limit them cause board partners cheat. 10900k limit it. every intel MUST follow spec.

amd. well board partners cheat 135w is fine. power deviation.. board partners fault.

105w /65w spec fark it. let boards do them as they wish. we stupid. . we dont know how to limit them.

temp testing. wait. WE dont limit it or screw avg working temp show the spikes on tau.

funny as usual.

but i hope this continues so i can bin few cpu. was really difficult to get 10900k at launch. hoping to get few 11900k.

only interested in ram


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> as usual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny
> 
> intel WE must limit them cause board partners cheat. 10900k limit it. every intel MUST follow spec.
> 
> amd. well board partners cheat 135w is fine. power deviation.. board partners fault.
> 
> 105w /65w spec fark it. let boards do them as they wish. we stupid. . we dont know how to limit them.
> 
> temp testing. wait. WE dont limit it or screw avg working temp show the spikes on tau.
> 
> funny as usual.
> 
> but i hope this continues so i can bin few cpu. was really difficult to get 10900k at launch. hoping to get few 11900k.
> 
> only interested in ram


I don't know what you do you think but overall seems like Rocket Lake is a disappointment?

Not because of this review or anandtech but overall the few users here who have the 11700k can't get much better results or even worst than the previous generation in gaming.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I don't know what you do you think but overall seems like Rocket Lake is a disappointment?
> 
> Not because of this review or anandtech but overall the few users here who have the 11700k can't get much better results or even worst than the previous generation in gaming.


i dont know dude. dont know atm what 11700k or bioses/boards they are using.

the bandwidth on ram itself i dont know what everybody doing.

two games i play alot
nfs heat avx rkl @ stock with high ram clock = my 10900k @5.3 4400cl16
vermintide 2..
various cpu 7820x, 9900x, 8700k, 10700k and 10900k... all oced, rams oced not on your avg joe level..
10900k sort of tapped off the potential with it hardly making any diff compare to 10700k. rkl surpassed it.

amd. hmm 5900x in my testing > 10900k on 1080p or lower. but 1440p onwards about the same. but amd cpu irritating on stability.
i am not very invested in that platform. the very idea of odt tuning is crazy. ppl think the board "trains" odt.

i personally think its all stable to a point only.


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> as usual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny
> 
> intel WE must limit them cause board partners cheat. 10900k limit it. every intel MUST follow spec.
> 
> amd. well board partners cheat 135w is fine. power deviation.. board partners fault.
> 
> 105w /65w spec fark it. let boards do them as they wish. we stupid. . we dont know how to limit them.
> 
> temp testing. wait. WE dont limit it or screw avg working temp show the spikes on tau.
> 
> funny as usual.
> 
> but i hope this continues so i can bin few cpu. was really difficult to get 10900k at launch. hoping to get few 11900k.
> 
> only interested in ram


What did he mean when he couldn't get his voltage stable? What does that even mean?


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> What did he mean when he couldn't get his voltage stable? What does that even mean?


no idea.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> i dont know dude. dont know atm what 11700k or bioses/boards they are using.
> 
> the bandwidth on ram itself i dont know what everybody doing.
> 
> two games i play alot
> nfs heat avx rkl 4 stock with high ram clock = my 10900k @5.3 4400cl16
> vermintide 2..
> various cpu 7820x, 9900x, 8700k, 10700k and 10900k... all oced, rams oced not on your avg joe level..
> 10900k sort of tapped off the potential with it hardly making any diff compare to 10700k. rkl surpassed it.
> 
> amd. hmm 5900x in my testing > 10900k on 1080p or lower. but 1440p onwards about the same. but amd cpu irritating on stability.
> i am not very invested in that platform. the very idea of odt tuning is crazy. ppl think the board "trains" odt.
> 
> i personally think its all stable to a point only.


I bought three 10900k to replace mine because I got a sp 63 binned chip and doesn't oc very well. My return time ends early next week so I'll try to get a better chip before I can make a decision over the 11900k i pre-ordered. 

Maybe I'll wait a bit after 11900k launches to see where it stands over the 10900k. 
AMD i tried twice with 5800x and 5900x and it's a no-go for me.

Do they sell delidded 10900k in europe?


----------



## Astral85

Talon2016 said:


> What did he mean when he couldn't get his voltage stable? What does that even mean?


Probably that it took too much voltage to get anything stable and ran into thermal issues.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Probably that it took too much voltage to get anything stable and ran into thermal issues.


Yes, this "we had real trouble getting this thing to overclock to any level that was meaningful for performance before we ran into voltage issues and temperature throttling".


----------



## Talon2016

Astral85 said:


> Probably that it took too much voltage to get anything stable and ran into thermal issues.





fray_bentos said:


> Yes, this ""we had real trouble getting this thing to overclock to any level that was meaningful for performance before we ran into voltage issues and temperature throttling" "


And that actually makes sense to you? Is this really OC.net?


----------



## fray_bentos

Talon2016 said:


> And that actually makes sense to you? Is this really OC.net?


Yes, to me that means "little overclocking headroom", and seems to match with other reports from owners (I'm ignoring people loading with 1.5 Vcore). Isn't that what you are also experiencing? How far have you got with your 11700K so far?


----------



## Nizzen

OC anno 2021 is all about memory overclocking and memory tweaking 

Rocketlake: set all core to 5ghz, and go crazy on memory oc


----------



## bastian

Talon2016 said:


> What did he mean when he couldn't get his voltage stable? What does that even mean?


Means he had **** cooling


----------



## fray_bentos

bastian said:


> Means he had **** cooling


I think they use a 280 or 360 mm Arctic Liquid Freezer II as their cooler, hardly ****, but certainly not exotic.


----------



## menko2

fray_bentos said:


> I think they use a 280 or 360 mm Arctic Liquid Freezer II as their cooler, hardly ****, but certainly not exotic.


I have the Arctic Freezer II 420. Not exotic at all but it does the job very well with the 10900k.

I'm just worry that you need to put 1.5v to get all core oc. 1.5v is crazy high.


----------



## ogider

about arctic









Extended Warranty Period for All Liquid Freezer II Coolers


As an owner-managed company, ARCTIC is focused on reliability and quality. Every product meets the highest standards and deserves the trust of our customers.




www.arctic.de






EXTENDED WARRANTY PERIOD FOR ALL LIQUID FREEZER II COOLERS
23 March 2021
Outstanding cooling performance through liquid cooling without the complexity of conventional CPU water coolers: since entering the market, our all-in-one series Liquid Freezer II has been winning over hardware enthusiasts and independent tech reviewers worldwide. After numerous awards for performance, price and downtime, with the extension to 6 years the Liquid Freezer II now also sets the highest standards in terms of warranty length.


----------------
another 11700k cpu review



https://www.io-tech.fi/artikkelit/ennakkotesti-intel-core-i7-11700k/


----------



## skullbringer

So has anyone managed to boot B-Die over DDR4-5000 with Rocketlake on the Maximus XII Apex?
At 5000 and below the board sits at postcode 6A for a few secs, which seemingly is special memory training. Above that it doesn't do that anymore and fails to train with 03. DJR trains higher, even without 6A


----------



## fray_bentos

ogider said:


> about arctic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extended Warranty Period for All Liquid Freezer II Coolers
> 
> 
> As an owner-managed company, ARCTIC is focused on reliability and quality. Every product meets the highest standards and deserves the trust of our customers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arctic.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXTENDED WARRANTY PERIOD FOR ALL LIQUID FREEZER II COOLERS
> 23 March 2021
> Outstanding cooling performance through liquid cooling without the complexity of conventional CPU water coolers: since entering the market, our all-in-one series Liquid Freezer II has been winning over hardware enthusiasts and independent tech reviewers worldwide. After numerous awards for performance, price and downtime, with the extension to 6 years the Liquid Freezer II now also sets the highest standards in terms of warranty length.
> 
> 
> ----------------
> another 11700k cpu review
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.io-tech.fi/artikkelit/ennakkotesti-intel-core-i7-11700k/


Great news on the warranty; from reading around it seems that it is extended retrospectively for existing users too, so that's my 280 mm covered for a good few more years! Thanks for the review also!


----------



## Spiriva

Someone got the 11900k early.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> So has anyone managed to boot B-Die over DDR4-5000 with Rocketlake on the Maximus XII Apex?
> At 5000 and below the board sits at postcode 6A for a few secs, which seemingly is special memory training. Above that it doesn't do that anymore and fails to train with 03. DJR trains higher, even without 6A


SR bdie?? afaik 5 doable. but the 100:133 less strain on the io/sa on tight tcl 5066 vs 5000..

but afaik the best bdie taps out @5100 on ln2.. so... temps?? 

4800 on DR .. i need double noctuas on a rainy night just to boot.


----------



## IronAge

What are your SA/IO Settings like for B-Die 8GB SR Gear 1 3733/3866 ?


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> What are your SA/IO Settings like for B-Die 8GB SR Gear 1 3733/3866 ?


me?? DR bdie only.

SR.. i just cant do it bro. The thought of trying to chase mhz when DR beats it at much lower mhz.

but DJR SR however.. i have done up to 5333 but not stable.. very tight.. DJR DR is 5200 50:50 stable.

Still not sure its the SR ram or i am just being over ambitious with my timings on SR. and i personally feel some sacrifices need to be made 5200 onwards. I dont just look at syntethic benchmark like aida.. i have to see TM5 and HCI time to complete the cycle lowered to have a impact. 5066 DR are just sick. 37 minutes per 100% 1900x16.

Also not sure the problem is because of 100:100. It just seems 100:100 needs more io for DJR and more SA for bdie compared to 100:133. You can test 4800 which is on both divider
....

i am still chasing for CL19.. 5066 is easier than 5k


----------



## shamino1978

dont use 100:100, not worth it....


----------



## jomama22

Talon2016 said:


> What did he mean when he couldn't get his voltage stable? What does that even mean?


I would imagine he is referring to the heat generated by adding more voltage would only make it more unstable at the 5.1 oc he was going for or just that he couldn't get 5.1 stable enough to run his a benchmark suite on it.

Silicon lottery most likely.



cstkl1 said:


> as usual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny
> 
> intel WE must limit them cause board partners cheat. 10900k limit it. every intel MUST follow spec.
> 
> amd. well board partners cheat 135w is fine. power deviation.. board partners fault.
> 
> 105w /65w spec fark it. let boards do them as they wish. we stupid. . we dont know how to limit them.
> 
> temp testing. wait. WE dont limit it or screw avg working temp show the spikes on tau.
> 
> funny as usual.
> 
> but i hope this continues so i can bin few cpu. was really difficult to get 10900k at launch. hoping to get few 11900k.
> 
> only interested in ram


Steve has done full videos on amd motherboards doing the same thing and has also done videos on what AMD and Intel considers TDP (they are different...).






He wasn't limiting the cpu to a specific wattage (as shown by the power figures in the video where the chip+mobo would consume 190w). Only limiting it to intel specified tao timing boosting limits, that's it.

If you haven't worked on an amd chip, then you don't realize that current ryzen chips do not have modifiable boosting time (tao) or power limits at stock settings, that would require PBO. Previous ryzen chips could be lied to by the motherboard resulting if higher boost states for longer lengths, but this has been made null/void by the 5000 series (and agesa updates on 1000-3000 series). Mobo's used to report lower current draws to the cpu than what it was actually pulling, resulting in the above boosting behavior at stock.






On many amd mobo's you can still adjust the reported current to the cpu all you want, but it doesn't do a damn thing anymore.

So feeling like somehow Steve isn't being equal in what stock vs stock testing is, is misplaced and just false.


----------



## cstkl1

jomama22 said:


> I would imagine he is referring to the heat generated by adding more voltage would only make it more unstable at the 5.1 oc he was going for or just that he couldn't get 5.1 stable enough to run his a benchmark suite on it.
> 
> Silicon lottery most likely.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve has done full videos on amd motherboards doing the same thing and has also done videos on what AMD and Intel considers TDP (they are different...).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't limiting the cpu to a specific wattage (as shown by the power figures in the video where the chip+mobo would consume 190w). Only limiting it to intel specified tao timing boosting limits, that's it.
> 
> If you haven't worked on an amd chip, then you don't realize that current ryzen chips do not have modifiable boosting time (tao) or power limits at stock settings, that would require PBO. Previous ryzen chips could be lied to by the motherboard resulting if higher boost states for longer lengths, but this has been made null/void by the 5000 series (and agesa updates on 1000-3000 series). Mobo's used to report lower current draws to the cpu than what it was actually pulling, resulting in the above boosting behavior at stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On many amd mobo's you can still adjust the reported current to the cpu all you want, but it doesn't do a damn thing anymore.
> 
> So feeling like somehow Steve isn't being equal in what stock vs stock testing is, is misplaced and just false.


right right...
so allow one do as much as it wants to hit whatever it does because hey helpless. aib has a sio that can implement EXACT control. but hey agesa right.. blame aib when its all a front with agesa.

and limit the other cpu in this case intel. 
typical.

but guess which company has a detailed electrical spec data sheet and full breakdown?? 

who knows what the cpu doing. 

doubt silicon lottery from the idiot who spent so much time on 10700k on hero z490 just to get it to 5ghz.

anyway the fun on da cpu is ram oc.
have fun.


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> right right...
> so allow one do as much as it wants to hit whatever it does because hey helpless
> and limit the other. typical.
> doubt silicon lottery from the idiot who spent so much time on 10700k on hero z490 just to get it to 5ghz.


Not sure what you mean. He showed very early in the video that different motherboards produced different boosting results based on the tao they decided to implement (one from intel's own guide to reviewers and one not). He also tested two bios' for the gigabyte master (z590), both of which didn't use the tao Intel told reviewers to use.

A difference in cpu performance between the z490 and z590 is negligible at best, if one even exists.

He's not limiting either product from the specified stock setting at all. He is using a common base denominator for each cpu tested at stock, which is what AMD and Intel specify as stock and what is expected from merely plugging in and playing.

He even says that it is very possible Intel will release a microcode update that raises the tao timing baseline though it has yet to happen.

So what exactly are you on about with:
"so allow one do as much as it wants to hit whatever it does because hey helpless
and limit the other."? How is the amd chips not being run at stock and how they would perform at a baseline of what every consumer would get performance wise at the bare minimum?

Also, to be clear, the more interesting comparison here is the 10700/10900 comparison. I wouldn't recommend the 5800x to anyone unless they had a specific price limit and a specific workload that would be useful. The 10700/10900 can be had for cheaper or the same price as the 11700 will end up being at retail.

10900k @ $400: Intel Core i9-10900K Comet Lake 3.7GHz Ten-Core LGA 1200 Boxed Processor - Micro Center

10900kf @ $330:








Intel Core i9-10900KF Comet Lake 3.7GHz Ten-Core LGA 1200 Boxed Processor - Heatsink Not Included - Micro Center


Get it now! 10th Gen Intel Core i9-10900KF unlocked desktop processor, without processor graphics. Featuring Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.




www.microcenter.com





10700k @ $250:








Intel Core i7-10700K Comet Lake 3.8GHz Eight-Core LGA 1200 Boxed Processor - Heatsink Not Included - Micro Center


Get it now! 10th Gen Intel Core i7-10700K unlocked desktop processor. Featuring Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0, unlocked 10th Gen Intel Core desktop processors are optimized for enthusiast gamers and serious creators and help deliver high performance overclocking for an added boost.




www.microcenter.com





That 10900kf @ $330 is a steal and a crazy good price.

To rest of your comment you edited in: lol wut. You don't think amd gives out deep dives of how their architecture and power specs work? If the cpu operates that at stock for everybody, then that's the literal definition of stock...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Rocketlake is not what i expected in terms of performance.
I can't find any reason to change.


----------



## i9forever

Performance is there and I bet it will be even better with the microcode update. The only bad thing is that I have to wait still 7 days for pre-ordered 11900K


----------



## menko2

i9forever said:


> Performance is there and I bet it will be even better with the microcode update. The only bad thing is that I have to wait still 7 days for pre-ordered 11900K


I have the same motherboard as you and I pre-ordered two 11900k that will arrive the 30th.

But I'm getting less and less excited as everything I see is so similar than my 10900k. Or even worst in some cases.

Microcode and bios update will help but I don't think it'll make the difference we all expect from Rocket Lake.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

i9forever said:


> Performance is there and I bet it will be even better with the microcode update. The only bad thing is that I have to wait still 7 days for pre-ordered 11900K


In the same boat and egear to get my hands on it with this ASUS Strix z590 a gaming board.


----------



## fourthavenue

I have received my 11900k yesterday. I tested it on my Z490 maximus Xii Apex BIOS version 2004 and it was horrible. I just find the 0031 bios in this thread and I'm gonna test it tonight.


----------



## fourthavenue

i9forever said:


> Performance is there and I bet it will be even better with the microcode update. The only bad thing is that I have to wait still 7 days for pre-ordered 11900K


I preordered my 11900K and it was shipped on last Friday for some reason. I received it yesterday. But the lack of a fully functional BIOS makes it kind of useless to have received it early.


----------



## Nizzen

fourthavenue said:


> I preordered my 11900K and it was shipped on last Friday for some reason. I received it yesterday. But the lack of a fully functional BIOS makes it kind of useless to have received it early.


0031 is the bios to run 11900k on 








ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0031.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## bastian

I'm actually surprised still no official new BIOS for Rocket Lake Z490/Z590. Must be end of the week surely?


----------



## Nizzen

bastian said:


> I'm actually surprised still no official new BIOS for Rocket Lake Z490/Z590. Must be end of the week surely?


Cpu-z aren't official released yet.... Soon my friend, soon


----------



## Nizzen

fourthavenue said:


> I have received my 11900k yesterday. I tested it on my Z490 maximus Xii Apex BIOS version 2004 and it was horrible. I just find the 0031 bios in this thread and I'm gonna test it tonight.


Pleace show us SP number in Bios, and VF curve


----------



## Falkentyne

PhoenixMDA said:


> Rocketlake is not what i expected in terms of performance.
> I can't find any reason to change.


Stability.


----------



## cstkl1

was thinking how to show something without breaking anything and then let ppl judge by themseves

Stock cpu, Stock strix, Not stock ram, Plex/Torrent Windows.. so no optimization on this other than network.




jomama22 said:


> Not sure what you mean. He showed very early in the video that different motherboards produced different boosting results based on the tao they decided to implement (one from intel's own guide to reviewers and one not). He also tested two bios' for the gigabyte master (z590), both of which didn't use the tao Intel told reviewers to use.
> 
> A difference in cpu performance between the z490 and z590 is negligible at best, if one even exists.
> 
> He's not limiting either product from the specified stock setting at all. He is using a common base denominator for each cpu tested at stock, which is what AMD and Intel specify as stock and what is expected from merely plugging in and playing.
> 
> He even says that it is very possible Intel will release a microcode update that raises the tao timing baseline though it has yet to happen.
> 
> So what exactly are you on about with:
> "so allow one do as much as it wants to hit whatever it does because hey helpless
> and limit the other."? How is the amd chips not being run at stock and how they would perform at a baseline of what every consumer would get performance wise at the bare minimum?
> 
> Also, to be clear, the more interesting comparison here is the 10700/10900 comparison. I wouldn't recommend the 5800x to anyone unless they had a specific price limit and a specific workload that would be useful. The 10700/10900 can be had for cheaper or the same price as the 11700 will end up being at retail.
> 
> 10900k @ $400: Intel Core i9-10900K Comet Lake 3.7GHz Ten-Core LGA 1200 Boxed Processor - Micro Center
> 
> 10900kf @ $330:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-10900KF Comet Lake 3.7GHz Ten-Core LGA 1200 Boxed Processor - Heatsink Not Included - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! 10th Gen Intel Core i9-10900KF unlocked desktop processor, without processor graphics. Featuring Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10700k @ $250:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i7-10700K Comet Lake 3.8GHz Eight-Core LGA 1200 Boxed Processor - Heatsink Not Included - Micro Center
> 
> 
> Get it now! 10th Gen Intel Core i7-10700K unlocked desktop processor. Featuring Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0, unlocked 10th Gen Intel Core desktop processors are optimized for enthusiast gamers and serious creators and help deliver high performance overclocking for an added boost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.microcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That 10900kf @ $330 is a steal and a crazy good price.
> 
> To rest of your comment you edited in: lol wut. You don't think amd gives out deep dives of how their architecture and power specs work? If the cpu operates that at stock for everybody, then that's the literal definition of stock...


you seem to think alot of magical thing about bios

ASUS default is mce enabled. So he manually limited the cpu. Theres no diff bios that implemented tau diff. the ucode update is mainly for i9.
THERES NO INTEL GUIDELINE for 11700k for reviewers.
And you have no clue what data sheet is and the transparency it brings even on ram turnaround timings.

AMD is running their cpu out of wattage spec purposely because its the only way it can run as advertise. theres no electrical data sheet cause theres no default spec. ppl seem to always blame aib. they seem to think having high temp, low current on idle is fine. not having a proper working cstate is fine. a usb nonsense that related to cpu because of agesa is fine. that what happens when the cpu is faulty from the start. its very apparent when mobile versions works as advertise including power usage but desktop ones are purposely being pushed higher because their binning is faulty. 

you seem to make ALOT of assumptions.


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> was thinking how to show something without breaking anything and then let ppl judge by themseves
> 
> Stock cpu, Stock strix, Not stock ram, Plex/Torrent Windows.. so no optimization on this other than network.
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to think alot of magical thing about bios
> 
> ASUS default is mce enabled. So he manually limited the cpu.
> And u have no clue what what data sheet is.
> 
> AMD is running their cpu out of wattage spec purposely because its the only way it can run as advertise. theres no electrical data sheet cause theres no default spec. ppl seem ti always blame aib. they seem to think having high temp, low current on idle is fine. not having a proper working cstate is fine. a usb nonsense that related to cpu because of agesa is fine. that what happens when the cpu is faulty from the start. its very apparent when mobile versions works as advertise including power usage but desktop ones are purposely being pushed higher because their binning is faulty.


Mce is not an intel feature nor what intel intends as stock , that's why it is disabled. Not all motherboards will enable it by default and all will have different interpretations of it. It is used for motherboard manufacturers to make their mobo look better then the competition during reviews pure and simple. It's just another crappy auto oc.

Intel turbo/boost/whatever nomenclature they decide to use is what the stock form of boost is.

An lol, if you think intel or AMD hands out data sheets of their cpu then you're funny. Please find me one for any recent cpu that goes on to list a pinout, or the i2c commands, or the transient responses of each individual voltage rail. I can go on if you would like.

Clearly you didn't look up or watch that video I linked earlier. What AMD determines is TDP is not the power consumed by the cpu during usage. What intel determines is TDP is also not what you can expect power consumption to be. At the end of the day, TDP numbers are genuinely meaningless for CPUs, we all know this, this isn't something new. That's why you just compare power consumption for each cpu, that's it. No reason to even evaluate TDP.

Please continue to throw out insults though, it really makes your points that much more concrete, especially considering you havnt given a single piece of actual reasoning for your statements other than saying what you think without any evidence.

Edit:

If you want to reply to my comment, please stop just editing yours. You remove things I am responding to and I'm not about to reply to he same comment again that you decided to change verbage of.


----------



## bastian

Reviewers should really adapt to what most enthusiasts do. And most people who buy either AMD or Intel turn PBO on or MCE on. Both just remove power limits.

I think this we only follow spec argument is bullshit.


----------



## cstkl1

jomama22 said:


> Mce is not an intel feature nor what intel intends as stock , that's why it is disabled. Not all motherboards will enable it by default and all will have different interpretations of it. It is used for motherboard manufacturers to make their mobo look better then the competition during reviews pure and simple. It's just another crappy auto oc.
> 
> Intel turbo/boost/whatever nomenclature they decide to use is what the stock form of boost is.
> 
> An lol, if you think intel or AMD hands out data sheets of their cpu then you're funny. Please find me one for any recent cpu that goes on to list a pinout, or the i2c commands, or the transient responses of each individual voltage rail. I can go on if you would like.
> 
> Clearly you didn't look up or watch that video I linked earlier. What AMD determines is TDP is not the power consumed by the cpu during usage. What intel determines is TDP is also not what you can expect power consumption to be. At the end of the day, TDP numbers are genuinely meaningless for CPUs, we all know this, this isn't something new. That's why you just compare power consumption for each cpu, that's it. No reason to even evaluate TDP.
> 
> Please continue to throw out insults though, it really makes your points that much more concrete, especially considering you havnt given a single piece of actual reasoning for your statements other than saying what you think without any evidence.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> If you want to reply to my comment, please stop just editing yours. You remove things I am responding to and I'm not about to reply to he same comment again that you decided to change verbage of.


"verbiage"

and now you are back tracking as to what consist to Mobo default and Cpu spec default

MCE just a switch on the bios option. The naming by asus to help noobs understand the term.

transient data for Intel is RIGHT there with LOADLINE on the datasheet. Are you just assuming again and just throwing random irrelevant data.

there's so many falsehood in your first initial defense
1. Reviews guideline.. there is NONE for i7 11700k,
2. Mobo are changing boost clock ... u-code update.. etc for 11700k all FALSE. only thing that limits boost clock on intel cpus are power/current limit.
3. Amd working out of spec to work in spec.. yet mobile variant no issue.
4. Now latest on the list. TDP definition when we are talking about cpu package power and z590 Hero has a SIO on ACTUAL power draw from the VRM
5. all things fail you will be pointing out my statements are not clear because of my use of English

Are you [email protected] in disguise cause you seem to be defending that idiot in somewhat since all reference is back to him. Infact all insults was laid on him but you felt insulted.
So either a super fan boy or you are him. The way you are writing a story here with zero fact is akin to him.

I edit based that i just woke up taking a dump and replying that comment and it accidentally posted something i was thinking of posting yesterday.


----------



## bastian

Further, I do like Steve.. but this guy will talk about spec power and then do long ass live streams with overclocking. Guess what, overclocking isn't spec. Neither is running memory above the official spec, but they do that too. He knows most his audience overclock or tweak settings.


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> "verbiage"
> 
> and now you are back tracking as to what consist to Mobo default and Cpu spec default
> 
> MCE just a switch on the bios option. The naming by asus to help noobs understand the term.
> 
> transient data for Intel is RIGHT there with LOADLINE on the datasheet. Are you just assuming again and just throwing random irrelevant data.
> 
> there's so many falsehood in your first initial defense
> 1. Reviews guideline.. there is NONE for i7 11700k,
> 2. Mobo are changing boost clock ... u-code update.. etc for 11700k all FALSE. only thing that limits boost clock on intel cpus are power/current limit.
> 3. Amd working out of spec to work in spec.. yet mobile variant no issue.
> 4. Now latest on the list. TDP definition when we are talking about cpu package power and z590 Hero has a SIO on ACTUAL power draw from the VRM
> 5. all things fail you will be pointing out my statements are not clear because of my use of English
> 
> Are you [email protected] in disguise cause you seem to be defending that idiot in somewhat since all reference is back to him. Infact all insults was laid on him but you felt insulted.
> So either a super fan boy or you are him. The way you are writing a story here with zero fact is akin to him.
> 
> I edit based that i just woke up taking a dump and replying that comment and it accidentally posted something i was thinking of posting yesterday but was saved.


Yes, mce is a switch, just like pbo. Same difference but not what stock is or what intel and amd base their performance figures off of. Again, it's implemented by mobo manufacturers, not intel.


1. Yes, review samples are out and they are given guidance by intel what the chip does. In their own recent statement they even say they give guidance on tau, which is 56 seconds.

2. No one said anything about boost clocks. Tau is the time boost is held. MCE changes single core boost frequencies to all core. Those are the changes mobo makers can use to their advantage. As I sad before, this is what Steve says will most likely change in a microcode update.

3. There is no 'Spec' for amd to work in. Their TDP does not refer to their operating power. Do I need to repeat that? Intel does the same thing. Mobile chips are a completely different ball game and have to room in this conversation. If you are so worried about what tdp a cpu maker puts on the box, you have bigger things to worry about. Compare power consumption and be done with it.

4. Not sure why you are bringing up super IO. If this has to do with tdp look above.

5. I fully understand your points. The issue is you are making claims that are unsubstantiated or not even part of the discussion. 
-You claim turning off mce or using Intel guidance for Tau duration is not fair, which is not true considering that is what STOCK is. Someone buying a mobo with mce disabled and intel's 56 seconds of tau by default is the baseline. It is what the MINIMUM STOCK expectation is of the chip.
-You claim AMD are allowed to have stuff that allows them to look better in the review because there is stuff "you can't turn off" and that they abuse power limits. Again, TDP IS NOT POWER CONSUMPTION. The way the chip is benchmarked and reviewed is STOCK. It is how the user will receive and use the chip.


And lol, I'm not Steve. It could be any other reviewer and I'd say the same thing. Your complaints are just funny and don't have any real support. So I replied countering your statements.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> AMD is running their cpu out of wattage spec purposely because its the only way it can run as advertise. theres no electrical data sheet cause theres no default spec. ppl seem to always blame aib. they seem to think having high temp, low current on idle is fine. not having a proper working cstate is fine. a usb nonsense that related to cpu because of agesa is fine. that what happens when the cpu is faulty from the start. its very apparent when mobile versions works as advertise including power usage but desktop ones are purposely being pushed higher because their binning is faulty.
> 
> you seem to make ALOT of assumptions.


What are you even on about here? Out of wattage spec? Only way it can run as advertised? Binning is faulty?

My 5900X can easily run at 105W, it's just a matter of setting a 105W PPT limit in BIOS, and it will still boost to 4.8 GHz (and beyond) in lightly threaded loads


Anyway, here's a run I did with my 5900X at locked 4.7 GHz all core with SMT on, and memory tweaked:










"Prioriter ytelse" is the norwegian translation for "favor performance"


----------



## cstkl1

bastian said:


> Further, I do like Steve.. but this guy will talk about spec power and then do long ass live streams with overclocking. Guess what, overclocking isn't spec. Neither is running memory above the official spec, but they do that too. He knows most his audience overclock or tweak settings.


he is a terrible when it comes to cpu/gpu/ram review.



jomama22 said:


> Yes, mce is a switch, just like pbo. Same difference but not what stock is or what intel and amd base their performance figures off of. Again, it's implemented by mobo manufacturers, not intel.
> 
> 
> 1. Yes, review samples are out and they are given guidance by intel what the chip does. In their own recent statement they even say they give guidance on tau, which is 56 seconds.
> 
> 2. No one said anything about boost clocks. Tau is the time boost is held. MCE changes single core boost frequencies to all core. Those are the changes mobo makers can use to their advantage. As I sad before, this is what Steve says will most likely change in a microcode update.
> 
> 3. There is no 'Spec' for amd to work in. Their TDP does not refer to their operating power. Do I need to repeat that? Intel does the same thing. Mobile chips are a completely different ball game and have to room in this conversation. If you are so worried about what tdp a cpu maker puts on the box, you have bigger things to worry about. Compare power consumption and be done with it.
> 
> 4. Not sure why you are bringing up super IO. If this has to do with tdp look above.
> 
> 5. I fully understand your points. The issue is you are making claims that are unsubstantiated or not even part of the discussion.
> -You claim turning off mce or using Intel guidance for Tau duration is not fair, which is not true considering that is what STOCK is. Someone buying a mobo with mce disabled and intel's 56 seconds of tau by default is the baseline. It is what the MINIMUM STOCK expectation is of the chip.
> -You claim AMD are allowed to have stuff that allows them to look better in the review because there is stuff "you can't turn off" and that they abuse power limits. Again, TDP IS NOT POWER CONSUMPTION. The way the chip is benchmarked and reviewed is STOCK. It is how the user will receive and use the chip.
> 
> 
> And lol, I'm not Steve. It could be any other reviewer and I'd say the same thing. Your complaints are just funny and don't have any real support. So I replied countering your statements.


Lets see

1. Its not review sample the 11700k. No need for guidance as mobos implement everything perfectly in intel mobos by having an option to run default
2. Ah this is where you ****ed up badly.
RKL as per clock PLL. the core ALWAYS hits the boost clock as long its within TB 3.0 spec. The update is regarding i9 11900k
3. Its the same thing. Working within advertise spec.
4. Its shows coherency between cpu package power and vrm power draw. Intel TDP follows very accurately.
5. No you dont. Obviously. The argument is not what the Intel cpu was running on. It was AMD " Default".


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> What are you even on about here? Out of wattage spec? Only way it can run as advertised? Binning is faulty?
> 
> My 5900X can easily run at 105W, it's just a matter of setting a 105W PPT limit in BIOS, and it will still boost to 4.8 GHz (and beyond) in lightly threaded loads
> 
> 
> Anyway, here's a run I did with my 5900X at locked 4.7 GHz all core with SMT on, and memory tweaked:
> 
> View attachment 2483565
> 
> 
> "Prioriter ytelse" is the norwegian translation for "favor performance"


and that lost to a stock intel cpu with oced ram

but anyway you just pointed out the glaring obvious thing that the person above doesnt want to admit. Steve choosed NOT to run stock power envelope for ryzen.


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> and that lost to a stock intel cpu with oced ram
> 
> but anyway you just pointed out the glaring obvious thing that the person above doesnt want to admit. Steve choosed NOT to run stock power envelope for ryzen.


Where does it show GN is using PBO and overclocking for their stock AMD results? I don't see it in the video did they post it in their testing methodology on the website or something?


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> and that lost to a stock intel cpu with oced ram
> 
> but anyway you just pointed out the glaring obvious thing that the person above doesnt want to admit. Steve choosed NOT to run stock power envelope for ryzen.


It sure looks like my 5900X was a bit slower, I just like to test this stuff. I have the 11900K preordered for 10% off MSRP, along with an ASUS M13 Hero with a 20% discount, so I might even end up selling my 5900X and motherboard because of the incredible demand for AMD CPUs.

Here's a quick test in the same game at 105W PPT limit I did just now:









Now, I might be mistaken, but it seems like that's a slightly faster result? Memory still at 3733 MHz


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> It sure looks like my 5900X was a bit slower, I just like to test this stuff. I have the 11900K preordered for 10% off MSRP, along with an ASUS M13 Hero with a 20% discount, so I might even end up selling my 5900X and motherboard because of the incredible demand for AMD CPUs.
> 
> Here's a quick test in the same game at 105W PPT limit I did just now:
> View attachment 2483574
> 
> 
> Now, I might be mistaken, but it seems like that's a slightly faster result? Memory still at 3733 MHz


nope.
your cpu scores all lower still. only gpu went up...


----------



## cstkl1

D-EJ915 said:


> Where does it show GN is using PBO and overclocking for their stock AMD results? I don't see it in the video did they post it in their testing methodology on the website or something?


Amd run is as per mobo default.
Intel run.. not mobo default but MCE enabled.

The biggest outlier...
CB 20 - 5800x 120w.. where's the 65w cpu package power??

Since deviation is fine.. shall we deviate Intel TDP power under reporting current by 50%.. since u can do it now on z590. Since like that dude said.. DONT READ from SIO.


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> he is a terrible when it comes to cpu/gpu/ram review.
> 
> 
> Lets see
> 
> 1. Its not review sample the 11700k. No need for guidance as mobos implement everything perfectly in intel mobos by having an option to run default
> 2. Ah this is where you ****ed up badly.
> RKL as per clock PLL. the core ALWAYS hits the boost clock as long its within TB 3.0 spec. The update is regarding i9 11900k
> 3. Its the same thing. Working within advertise spec.
> 4. Its shows coherency between cpu package power and vrm power draw. Intel TDP follows very accurately.
> 5. No you dont. Obviously. The argument is not what the Intel cpu was running on. It was AMD " Default".


1. Yes, we know the 11700k in the review isn't the review sample. This isn't an argument of what a mobo default is. It's about running the chip at stock. Which is 56 second tau and no mce

2. Great, so glad TB3.0 is part of...wait for it...STOCK. We are talking about running chips at stock. That's it. Nothing more to it. Stop trying to ignore that fact. MCE and extended tau durations are not stock. That is what we are talking about here. If intel includes any sort of boost parameters on their chips at stock, guess what, they were part of the review.

3. TDP != Power consumption. Dude, seriously. You need to stop with this assumption. It is just wrong. From wiki: "The thermal design power, sometimes called thermal design point, is the maximum amount of heat generated by a computer chip or component that the cooling system in a computer is designed to dissipate under any workload." It is literally just the heat expected to be dissipated under whatever load it runs. Not all power goes into heat fyi. Also, and again, AMDs TDP is calculated completely differently than intel's. They are not comparable.

4. So spiking to 190w for a continuous period is now 'very accurate'. Ok man. Keep telling yourself that. Again, tdp is not power consumption.

5. AMD's is fricken default! Like *** are you on? Please tell me for the love of god what isn't default about the chip performing EXACTLY as it does on any motherboard you can buy for it at full stock settings. If you genuinely care so much about the TDP number on the box, you should get off overclock.net. 

Like dude, you are such a fanboy it's hilarious. I couldn't care less about what chip is better, all I care about is the fact that they are compared equally for what they are, as sold to the public at the settings they, amd and intel, refer to the chips as stock. That's it. 

You really are a brick wall man.


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> Amd run is as per mobo default.
> Intel run.. not mobo default but MCE enabled.
> 
> The biggest outlier...
> CB 20 - 5800x 120w.. where's the 65w cpu package power??
> 
> Since deviation is fine.. shall we deviate Intel TDP power under reporting current by 50%.. since u can do it now on z590. Since like that dude said.. DONT READ from SIO.


No it doesn't, pbo is not stock. No motherboard runs it's by default. Stop with the lies man.

Dude, I used the power deviation as an example of how mobo manufacturers used to get away with pumping up their reviews. THAT DOES NOT WORK ANY MORE AS IT DOES NOTHING TO ALTER BOOST ON AMD ANYMORE. Can you seriously just not read or enjoying your blissful ignorance?

What does TDP mean? How should you interpret this term? | Digital Citizen you need to read this now.


----------



## YaqY

10900KF with 4500C16 Dual rank on apex with 5.4/5.1. Does your result beat this @cstkl1 , I find it hard to get the values down but understand you can't share them. Obviously your rocketlake chip has stock core/ring to consider.


----------



## YaqY

jomama22 said:


> No it doesn't, pbo is not stock. No motherboard runs it's by default. Stop with the lies man.
> 
> Dude, I used the power deviation as an example of how mobo manufacturers used to get away with pumping up their reviews. THAT DOES NOT WORK ANY MORE AS IT DOES NOTHING TO ALTER BOOST ON AMD ANYMORE. Can you seriously just not read or enjoying your blissful ignorance?
> 
> What does TDP mean? How should you interpret this term? | Digital Citizen you need to read this now.


No need to argue here, I don't see the point, gamer's nexus appeals to a very casual audience nothing like the people here, they will never please us with their poor attempts of memory/cpu overclocking.


----------



## jomama22

YaqY said:


> No need to argue here, I don't see the point, gamer's nexus appeals to a very casual audience nothing like the people here, they will never please us with their poor attempts of memory/cpu overclocking.


Absolutely. Its for the majority of those that will buy the product. We have to remind ourselves that the majority of those who purchase cpus do not overclock them. That's the reality.

Overclocked benchmarks are definitely important, but it is difficult to find a good balance. You start getting into silicon lottery territory where someone who buys a chip may or may not be able to match those score. Also, where does the comparisons make sense? Should a 5.1 11700k be compared to just 5800x + pbo? Or should the amd part get to use curve optimizer as well to further increase boost? Should the amd part be set at a static overclock?

I'm all for just full maxed out oc vs oc, just makes it more difficult to judge whether you would get the same performance if you purchased the same part.


----------



## cstkl1

jomama22 said:


> 1. Yes, we know the 11700k in the review isn't the review sample. This isn't an argument of what a mobo default is. It's about running the chip at stock. Which is 56 second tau and no mce
> 
> 2. Great, so glad TB3.0 is part of...wait for it...STOCK. We are talking about running chips at stock. That's it. Nothing more to it. Stop trying to ignore that fact. MCE and extended tau durations are not stock. That is what we are talking about here. If intel includes any sort of boost parameters on their chips at stock, guess what, they were part of the review.
> 
> 3. TDP != Power consumption. Dude, seriously. You need to stop with this assumption. It is just wrong. From wiki: "The thermal design power, sometimes called thermal design point, is the maximum amount of heat generated by a computer chip or component that the cooling system in a computer is designed to dissipate under any workload." It is literally just the heat expected to be dissipated under whatever load it runs. Not all power goes into heat fyi. Also, and again, AMDs TDP is calculated completely differently than intel's. They are not comparable.
> 
> 4. So spiking to 190w for a continuous period is now 'very accurate'. Ok man. Keep telling yourself that. Again, tdp is not power consumption.
> 
> 5. AMD's is fricken default! Like *** are you on? Please tell me for the love of god what isn't default about the chip performing EXACTLY as it does on any motherboard you can buy for it at full stock settings. If you genuinely care so much about the TDP number on the box, you should get off overclock.net.
> 
> Like dude, you are such a fanboy it's hilarious. I couldn't care less about what chip is better, all I care about is the fact that they are compared equally for what they are, as sold to the public at the settings they, amd and intel, refer to the chips as stock. That's it.
> 
> You really are a brick wall man.


yes a fan boy who buys everything and test
yes thats a very definition of fanboy

instead of a dude who reads off from the internet and accepts truth..

anyway seeing so much falcy in everything you post. U basically accept current under reporting. hence TDP reporting as u said.

3. You accepted a fact based on trying to justify Amd cpu running out of spec to work as advertise. If this is not joke of the day .. i dunno what is.

4. Ure the one should **** off from OCN and maybe even this planet. U dont know anything .

anyway ending this tirade with u with just full on ignore cause everything u post is utterly to justify your purchases.
clear as day.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> View attachment 2483576
> 
> 
> 10900KF with 4500C16 Dual rank on apex with 5.4/5.1. Does your result beat this @cstkl1 , I find it hard to get the values down but understand you can't share them. Obviously your rocketlake chip has stock core/ring to consider.


lost on avg fps

cpu fps rkl higher
95% about the same
lost on 99%

cache is running 3900 as per stock

btw yours the pirate copy right or just a old SS??

not sure whether shader optimization does anything.. but havent done it on the game


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> lost on avg fps
> 
> cpu fps rkl higher
> 95% about the same
> lost on 99%
> 
> cache is running 3900 as per stock
> 
> btw yours the pirate copy right or just a old SS??
> 
> not sure whether shader optimization does anything.. but havent done it on the game


Not my picture, just a friend's bench from a while back i am on a 10700k, which explains the earlier game version he was running, real game version.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> Not my picture, just a friend's bench from a while back i am on a 10700k, which explains the earlier game version he was running, real game version.


i think its higher now.. so u got to test it on latest..
rkl stock around the same most cpu intensive games i test as 5.3ghz 10900k.
5.4 will beat it.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> The biggest outlier...
> CB 20 - 5800x 120w.. where's the 65w cpu package power??


The 5800X is rated at 105W TDP, and will boost up to 142W as long as the cooling and motherboard is capable.
Only the 5600X is rated at 65W, and that one will boost up to 88W as long as the cooling and motherboard is capable.

As for Horizon: Zero Dawn, the numbers for CPU and GPU can't be considered reliable. The game will report a different CPU result depending on how GPU bottlenecked the benchmark is, setting resolution scale to 50% resulted in 10 fps higher results for all CPU scores.


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> The 5800X is rated at 105W TDP, and will boost up to 142W as long as the cooling and motherboard is capable.
> Only the 5600X is rated at 65W, and that one will boost up to 88W as long as the cooling and motherboard is capable.
> 
> As for Horizon: Zero Dawn, the numbers for CPU and GPU can't be considered reliable. The game will report a different CPU result depending on how GPU bottlenecked the benchmark is, setting resolution scale to 50% resulted in 10 fps higher results for all CPU scores.


i am just posting what i can with the screenshots for ppl to make up their own mind bro.

resolution scaling is 100%. as advertise no funny biz just to boost the scores..
if anything u should be questioning what ram speeds i am running at.

the latest ucode will boost the cpu higher on all core with MCE enabled under the new adaptive turbo.. 

i kept it under the old ucode.


----------



## cstkl1

imagine the **** storm intel would be if they DID an AMD since some ppl are all brainwashed by current underreporting with cpu package power via agesa manipulation

50% current reporting in Bios
since some ppl love to see TDP the amd way. Screw SIO

so WOW only 116w..
my cooling and motherboard is CAPABLE..
lol




now i understand why this option was there in the bios.
most ppl dont care as they prefer honesty and transparency. but then the select few..


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> yes a fan boy who buys everything and test
> yes thats a very definition of fanboy
> 
> instead of a dude who reads off from the internet and accepts truth..
> 
> anyway seeing so much falcy in everything you post. U basically accept current under reporting. hence TDP reporting as u said.
> 
> 3. You accepted a fact based on trying to justify Amd cpu running out of spec to work as advertise. If this is not joke of the day .. i dunno what is.
> 
> 4. Ure the one should **** off from OCN and maybe even this planet. U dont know anything .
> 
> anyway ending this tirade with u with just full on ignore cause everything u post is utterly to justify your purchases.
> clear as day.


Enjoy you ignorance man. It will take you far. No reason to even try to talk to you. Glad this thread has you as it's representation.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Falkentyne said:


> Stability.


Why Stability?
The Apex XII with 10900k is perfekt in stability with oc, more is not possible.Its only a question of settings. 
Actually i had bought the apex xii for rocketlake, but nothing convince me at this point.
But I am still curious what is possible


----------



## Falkentyne

Only if there is enough voltage and perfect subtimings. The problem is the skylake flaw. 
There is L0 error with hyperthreading enabled. This error does not appear with HT disabled.

And there is Internal Parity Error, which first appeared with some thing with haswell microcode. There is a large thread you can search for on this forum where this was discussed, then it faded, but it never went away, but people didn't see it because of the low number of threads back then. Then 8C/16T CPU's and this started appearing, especially in Minecraft, and Apex Legends had a massive problem and a megathread with people crashing long ago. Some people on stock systems --and it was because of the parity error. The average gamer didn't even know what was going on.

The Apex programmer (oriostorm) changed the code path to limit the occurrence of what was causing this error, around March 2019, which gave massive stability improvements, but Minecraft still triggers this unless you yeet the vcore or the Loadline calibration. And the fix for Minecraft is to limit the # of threads in the EXE to 6...

And now more and more people are getting Parity errors in some newer games too.

RKL no longer has these flaws. It's stable. Or you get clock watchdog timeout.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> Why Stability?
> The Apex XII with 10900k is perfekt in stability with oc, more is not possible.Its only a question of settings.
> Actually i had bought the apex xii for rocketlake, but nothing convince me at this point.
> But I am still curious what is possible


try RTX DX12 Ghostrunner "The Climb" on repetition...

this the easiest.. 

u can solve it but if theres a single crash on cpu oced in this game even if whea event dont pop up.. its paririty


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Ghostrunner i don't have.
I don't have any problems in my case, but i know what you mean, some people have in hardwareluxx the same problem for example in tarkov.
The most people dont test really the 100% stability of their system, so it isn't in hole cases stable.

It's a question of settings, but that is not my personal problem.


----------



## Falkentyne

PhoenixMDA said:


> Ghostrunner i don't have.
> I don't have any problems in my case, but i know what you mean, some people have in hardwareluxx the same problem for example in tarkov.
> The most people dont test really the 100% stability of their system, so it isn't in hole cases stable.
> 
> It's a question of settings, but that is not my personal problem.


This is where you are wrong.
It's entirely possible to be AVX small FFT prime95 stable and STILL get a parity error! You can pass everything, cinebench loop, Y-cruncher (a test many people respect), OCCT, everything and STILL get a parity error! A parity error is NOT a L0 error. L0 error =you are really unstable with HT. These come out in stress tests first, not games. Parities are hard.
You won't get a L0 error if you can pass avx small FFT prime or OCCT small but you can still get a parity error in games.
It's also VERY difficult to get a parity error in prime95. You have to run some really whacky LLC and ring settings to get one there.


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> This is where you are wrong.
> It's entirely possible to be AVX small FFT prime95 stable and STILL get a parity error! You can pass everything, cinebench loop, Y-cruncher (a test many people respect), OCCT, everything and STILL get a parity error! A parity error is NOT a L0 error. L0 error =you are really unstable with HT. These come out in stress tests first, not games. Parities are hard.
> You won't get a L0 error if you can pass avx small FFT prime or OCCT small but you can still get a parity error in games.
> It's also VERY difficult to get a parity error in prime95. You have to run some really whacky LLC and ring settings to get one there.





Falkentyne said:


> Only if there is enough voltage and perfect subtimings. The problem is the skylake flaw.
> There is L0 error with hyperthreading enabled. This error does not appear with HT disabled.
> 
> And there is Internal Parity Error, which first appeared with some thing with haswell microcode. There is a large thread you can search for on this forum where this was discussed, then it faded, but it never went away, but people didn't see it because of the low number of threads back then. Then 8C/16T CPU's and this started appearing, especially in Minecraft, and Apex Legends had a massive problem and a megathread with people crashing long ago. Some people on stock systems --and it was because of the parity error. The average gamer didn't even know what was going on.
> 
> The Apex programmer (oriostorm) changed the code path to limit the occurrence of what was causing this error, around March 2019, which gave massive stability improvements, but Minecraft still triggers this unless you yeet the vcore or the Loadline calibration. And the fix for Minecraft is to limit the # of threads in the EXE to 6...
> 
> And now more and more people are getting Parity errors in some newer games too.
> 
> RKL no longer has these flaws. It's stable. Or you get clock watchdog timeout.


This is one of the first things I noticed with my 11700K. You are either stable, or you BSOD. No L0 errors have been logged since I got this CPU during my overclock testing which I was surprised by. It would just BSOD or be stable. Pretty crazy.

Thanks for the explanation about why this is.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Falkentyne 
Hwinfo i let often run by playing etc, to this time i don't get this problem.
So i can't say anything to this.
My System runs stable in my usecase.

I think not everyone has this problem.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> This is one of the first things I noticed with my 11700K. You are either stable, or you BSOD. No L0 errors have been logged since I got this CPU during my overclock testing which I was surprised by. It would just BSOD or be stable. Pretty crazy.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation about why this is.


thats what i meant rkl stability.
its yes or no. no in-between.


----------



## Talon2016

Arni90 said:


> What are you even on about here? Out of wattage spec? Only way it can run as advertised? Binning is faulty?
> 
> My 5900X can easily run at 105W, it's just a matter of setting a 105W PPT limit in BIOS, and it will still boost to 4.8 GHz (and beyond) in lightly threaded loads
> 
> 
> Anyway, here's a run I did with my 5900X at locked 4.7 GHz all core with SMT on, and memory tweaked:
> 
> View attachment 2483565
> 
> 
> "Prioriter ytelse" is the norwegian translation for "favor performance"












4.9Ghz, 3600Mhz CL15. Obviously GPU does not matter in this test and were comparing CPU performance. In fact I think using an older GPU might be beneficial as Ampere loves resolution, not 1080p uber low settings.


----------



## skullbringer

is 1:1 actually hard-limited at 3733?


----------



## Nizzen

My 11700k sample does not go over 3733 1:1. Haven't tested ln2 yet LOL.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> is 1:1 actually hard-limited at 3733?


no.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> My 11700k sample does not go over 3733 1:1. Haven't tested ln2 yet LOL.


current bios.. hmm i just tested.. for DJR and Bdie fine
but not worth it just for 38ns??


----------



## skullbringer

3800 just always throws post code 69, no matter what SA voltage, so seems like an artificial limit. I heard it was just implemented for the i7 and i9 can go higher, for product segmentation.
That would explain why higher 1:1 ratios can still be selected in bios, but don't actually work on the i7.

Also my chip can only post 3733 1:1 with djr and micron rev e. b-die caps out at 3600 for some reason.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> 3800 just always throws post code 69, no matter what SA voltage, so seems like an artificial limit. I heard it was just implemented for the i7 and i9 can go higher, for product segmentation.
> That would explain why higher 1:1 ratios can still be selected in bios, but don't actually work on the i7.
> 
> Also my chip can only post 3733 1:1 with djr and micron rev e. b-die caps out at 3600 for some reason.


DJR i only tested CL19.. didnt go lower.. its the timings i used for 4800
Bdie the one i posted was from way back so retested.. its fine. but hmm is it even worth it just for 38ns
SA 1.45 MC io 1.35

5066 .. 1.3/1.3

Theres no artificial limit afaik.... not many has done 3866 cause most are not bothered by it on i9.


----------



## cstkl1

appreciate if ppl could show me 1080p ultra FC5, FC new dawn rtx 3080 or 3090

Getting some weird FPS increase that doesnt make sense. ( I jack sparrowed it so.. hence deciding to buy it or not just for benchmark...)


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> appreciate if ppl could show me 1080p ultra FC5, FC new dawn rtx 3080 or 3090
> 
> Getting some weird FPS increase that doesnt make sense. ( I jack sparrowed it so.. hence deciding to buy it or not just for benchmark...)


Have FC 5 vanilla


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> DJR i only tested CL19.. didnt go lower.. its the timings i used for 4800
> Bdie the one i posted was from way back so retested.. its fine. but hmm is it even worth it just for 38ns
> SA 1.45 MC io 1.35
> 
> 5066 .. 1.3/1.3
> 
> Theres no artificial limit afaik.... not many has done 3866 cause most are not bothered by it on i9.


thing is, even for 1:2 5600 on DJR my chip only needs 1.3 SA, auto IO, auto IO mem, so I doubt its an SA limitation for 1:1 above 3733. so weird, but at least funny postcode from intel: 69, nice 

b-die will only post at 5000, does not like 5066 at all. also I have not noticed any difference in SA requirement between 100:100 and 100:133, either it boots with 1.3V SA or it does not, no matter which devider


----------



## cstkl1

games on sale.. just bought it with few others for the typical benchmark suite.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> thing is, even for 1:2 5600 on DJR my chip only needs 1.3 SA, auto IO, auto IO mem, so I doubt its an SA limitation for 1:1 above 3733. so weird, but at least funny postcode from intel: 69, nice
> 
> b-die will only post at 5000, does not like 5066 at all. also I have not noticed any difference in SA requirement between 100:100 and 100:133, either it boots with 1.3V SA or it does not, no matter which devider


apex bios a bit not as matured as extreme.. but afaik SR not really affected only DR.

for me bdie vs djr is opposite

djr very IMC io sensitive to train
Bdie is very SA sensitive to train


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Have FC 5 vanilla
> 
> View attachment 2483615


nice i am guessing this is strix rtx 3090?? with [email protected] 5?? 
bought da game and few others.. .. it was on sale..


----------



## FlanK3r

Talon2016 said:


> 3733 will not boot. Either I'm not pushing high enough SA/IO voltage or the IMC just sucks on this CPU. Hoping my 11900K is better binned.


do not be worry, push more DRAM IO voltage (it is separate rail), it could helps to stabilize it. It is new, not ame as Comet Lake or olders Intels....

@Nizzen 3733 MHz is really hard wall, some chips can not do it I know it, do not ask me from where ,-)


----------



## cstkl1

FlanK3r said:


> do not be worry, push more DRAM IO voltage (it is separate rail), it could helps to stabilize it. It is new, not ame as Comet Lake or olders Intels....
> 
> @Nizzen 3733 MHz is really hard wall, some chips can not do it I know it, do not ask me from where ,-)


try hero which should have inherited extreme tuning.

guessing its apex users??


----------



## weleh

My own 5800X @3800c14 @PBO/CO tweaked for comparison's sake.


----------



## cstkl1

weleh said:


> My own 5800X @3800c14 @PBO/CO tweaked for comparison's sake.


Nice

Next one
Stock Strix 3080, Stock CPU, Not Stock Ram

F1-2020
1080p Ultra High
TAA ( no idea why all reviewers dont use the default TAA checkerboard)
Australia
Camera = Cycle


----------



## Antsu

weleh said:


> My own 5800X @3800c14 @PBO/CO tweaked for comparison's sake.
> 
> View attachment 2483634


My 24/7 setting 9900KS and SR RAM:


----------



## Antsu

Nizzen said:


> Have FC 5 vanilla
> 
> View attachment 2483615


My 9900KS setup for comparison:


----------



## cstkl1

Stock CPU, Stock Strix , Not Stock Ram


----------



## cstkl1

oced cpu and much higher ram on 30th


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> nice i am guessing this is strix rtx 3090?? with [email protected] 5??
> bought da game and few others.. .. it was on sale..


Yes
Asus 3090 Strix White oc stock cooling
11700k @ 5ghz all core
4800c17-18 tweaked b-die


----------



## Nizzen

Antsu said:


> My 9900KS setup for comparison:


Looks like this game LOVES low latency  You have ~35ns?


----------



## Antsu

Nizzen said:


> Looks like this game LOVES low latency  You have ~35ns?


32.9ns with PPD 0


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> appreciate if ppl could show me 1080p ultra FC5, FC new dawn rtx 3080 or 3090
> 
> Getting some weird FPS increase that doesnt make sense. ( I jack sparrowed it so.. hence deciding to buy it or not just for benchmark...)


----------



## domdtxdissar

My daily 24/7 memory and PBO CO settings for my 5950x, have only turned off SMT for this benchmark:


----------



## weleh

domdtxdissar said:


> My daily 24/7 memory and PBO CO settings for my 5950x, have only turned off SMT for this benchmark:
> View attachment 2483652
> 
> View attachment 2483653


What kind of OC are you on the 3090? Your GPU numbers are very high compared to the other 3090's around here.


----------



## domdtxdissar

weleh said:


> What kind of OC are you on the 3090? Your GPU numbers are very high compared to the other 3090's around here.


Resolution modifier to focus solely on CPU


----------



## weleh

domdtxdissar said:


> Resolution modifier to focus solely on CPU


Thought so.
Doing render scale I get insane numbers too.


----------



## cstkl1

ppl are missing the point. 
This aint showing off thread. Its to show u what RKL can do and for you to compare. What dufus on da net vs what rkl actually capable off.

all these SS to a point now lower render.. different gpu and oced while at it... ... oced cpu... 
vs a stock RKL cpu with oced ram stock gpu 

what's all this ss you guys posting for??


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Looks like this game LOVES low latency  You have ~35ns?


nope.. lol.. beaten that easy with a stock Strix rtx 3080 with a slight bump on oc the cpu

the game LOVES ipc

also could be all the hwinfo stuff running in the back losing some fps there...


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> nope.. lol.. beaten that easy with a stock Strix rtx 3080 with a slight bump on oc the cpu
> 
> the game LOVES ipc
> 
> also could be all the hwinfo stuff running in the back losing some fps there...
> 
> View attachment 2483659


GPU doesn't matter, that game is light. How about you close the background apps and run it again instead of making excuses? I respect you for posting all this information but you seem really defensive, also saying that you beat it easy while blurring the actual data seems kinda stupid IMO. When I compare that graph to mine it seems pretty much equal. I wish it was the 30th already so we could see for real if upgrading from a 2018 platform is even an actual upgrade, because right now it doesn't seem that way which ****ing sucks. I want to join the APEX gang, but blowing 1200€ for nothing is something I don't have the funds for


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> ppl are missing the point.
> This aint showing off thread. Its to show u what RKL can do and for you to compare. What dufus on da net vs what rkl actually capable off.
> 
> all these SS to a point now lower render.. different gpu and oced while at it... ... oced cpu...
> vs a stock RKL cpu with oced ram stock gpu
> 
> what's all this ss you guys posting for??


As much as I want to see and compare with my scores you are totally right. 

There are so many variables in our individual set-ups that we can't compare. 

Either each of us wait until we get our 11700k or 11900k to compare with our rams and gpus or a good review once the embargo is lifted.

Also there is final bios release as I assume it's in beta state even the launch is close.

I use a 3090 Kingpin and even without overclock i get higher scores than a overclocked Strix so compare gaming is not valid in different systems.

cstkl1 did you get some gaming tests to compare from with your 10th chip? That could be useful in this scenario.


----------



## YaqY

domdtxdissar said:


> My daily 24/7 memory and PBO CO settings for my 5950x, have only turned off SMT for this benchmark:
> View attachment 2483652
> 
> View attachment 2483653


I don't see why people modify stuff like render resolution, fail to specify they used it in their original post and then post misleading results here, this forum is for us to get a sense of rocketlake overclocked performance which we won't see from reviewers, please don't mislead with cheesed results...


----------



## cstkl1

Antsu said:


> GPU doesn't matter, that game is light. How about you close the background apps and run it again instead of making excuses? I respect you for posting all this information but you seem really defensive, also saying that you beat it easy while blurring the actual data seems kinda stupid IMO. When I compare that graph to mine it seems pretty much equal. I wish it was the 30th already so we could see for real if upgrading from a 2018 platform is even an actual upgrade, because right now it doesn't seem that way which ****ing sucks. I want to join the APEX gang, but blowing 1200€ for nothing is something I don't have the funds for


it was a mistake before on revealing the fps numbers for stock cpu
anyway 30th all shall be revealed.

anyway the graph already enough for any indicator for anybody to make up their minds.

also u dont seem to realize something. that excuse is actually a negative for me to point that out. i am basically telling ya the oc didnt increase the fps that much.


----------



## Antsu

YaqY said:


> I don't see why people modify stuff like render resolution, fail to specify they used it in their original post and then post misleading results here, this forum is for us to get a sense of rocketlake overclocked performance which we won't see from reviewers, please don't mislead with cheesed results...


This, lmao. I could've posted this result as my 'daily settings'


----------



## FlanK3r

cstkl1 said:


> try hero which should have inherited extreme tuning.
> 
> guessing its apex users??


what do you mean exactly? This settings is aviable in new Hero...Aslo on Strix boards


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> As much as I want to see and compare with my scores you are totally right.
> 
> There are so many variables in our individual set-ups that we can't compare.
> 
> Either each of us wait until we get our 11700k or 11900k to compare with our rams and gpus or a good review once the embargo is lifted.
> 
> Also there is final bios release as I assume it's in beta state even the launch is close.
> 
> I use a 3090 Kingpin and even without overclock i get higher scores than a overclocked Strix so compare gaming is not valid in different systems.
> 
> cstkl1 did you get some gaming tests to compare from with your 10th chip? That could be useful in this scenario.


in general rkl stock = 5.3ghz 10900k. rkl on djr DR, cml on bdie dr. 
thats my opinion on based on nfs heat, and vermintide 2 . in games with inbuilt benchmark they are more less equal

thats y i kept saying vs oced tuned 10900k with good z490 mobo no comment

but z390 and below with the corresponding cpus of that gen might find this a upgrade better. those gen mobos are not as good as current motherboards in design and even bios. also there was too many intel microcode patches that nerfed them 

second is the stability of rkl. this is the major selling point. 

in my opinion this cpu is purely for gaming. 

theres few areas of this cpu i myself got lazy to test. it has per core pll. meaning you can oc every core different running different clock. since theres no ivr.. shamino genius v/f table comes to play. you can use that to control the [email protected] 

now comes the value proposition. i kinnda am leaning to what b560 can do with 11700F. if the mobos are given freedom abit. this combi might be gamers choice. but will they??


----------



## cstkl1

FlanK3r said:


> what do you mean exactly? This settings is aviable in new Hero...Aslo on Strix boards


ram tuning by fae differs on everyboard series.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> Have FC 5 vanilla
> 
> View attachment 2483615


I have the same vanilla version like you^^.
The 11900k have 300Mhz more allcore and perhaps some microcode update push also the performance.
At now it´s nearly the same performance by same clock i think by our systems.

I think the best reason for an rocketlake can be also the temp´s, for cometlake it´s also possible to get great temp´s but with heavy water cooling^^
and a good Chip.

5,2/4,8/4600CL17-17 with [email protected]









here that you see i dont have push with clock before 5,5Ghz without HT.


----------



## CallMeODZ

trigger warning: cstkl1 don't watch, you'll have da stroke man


----------



## DAM20

Lol this thread is amazing, full of fanboism, keep it up bois I'm getting some chips!


----------



## bastian

CallMeODZ said:


> trigger warning: cstkl1 don't watch, you'll have da stroke man


Ah yes, here comes the clickbait videos.


----------



## Talon2016

Life according to Steve. 

Running default 4.6Ghz all cores is now considered OVERCLOCKING since you aren't enforcing his power crusade against Intel. It's "not officially" a SPEC, but "should be".


----------



## Antsu

All I'm going to say on the subject is that he is running a business where clicks = money, and what gets more clicks these days than ****ting on Intel? Don't be surprised guys, I think there is plenty more to come


----------



## i9forever

CallMeODZ said:


> trigger warning: cstkl1 don't watch, you'll have da stroke man


Does this guy already know what is the difference between single rank / dual rank memory? Or still clueless?


----------



## bastian

GN always test with Intel's "official specs" and that is what they posted in their review a couple days ago.

BUT here is what happens if you unlock the features of the mobo:

You can saturate all cores and longer, yes it uses more power, but who cares. You bought an expensive CPU. Take advantage of it all.

Gains in the 2-8% performance in games, sometimes enough to go above the 5800X, 5-12% in productivity applications.

Therefore, take early reviews with a grain of salt. Especially with the 11900k. You can do more with it than these reviewers want to do. Its more interesting to crap on Intel for the clicks to feed the AMD fanboys.

Now all sudden that Anandtech review looks even more silly. I mean, it did a while ago when it wasn't using more recent microcode. Final microcode still isn't even here.


----------



## Zucker2k

jomama22 said:


> The way the chip is benchmarked and reviewed is STOCK. It is how the user will receive and use the chip.


And not the motherboard? Right!


----------



## bastian

Zucker2k said:


> And not the motherboard? Right!


Same guy also said AMD doesn't have any stock spec for power. Convenient. Well then, how about we throw out all of the power stuff then for both companies then? 

AMD is better right now with power simply because of process. But their chips still get pretty darn hot like Intel's do.


----------



## jomama22

Zucker2k said:


> And not the motherboard? Right!


Not every motherboards default is the same. That's the entire point. Some have mce enabled by default, some don't. Some have no tau duration limit, some have intel guidance of 56 seconds. You could take the same processor and plug it into both of those motherboards and receive vastly different results. 

That is the entire point of testing under stock conditions, as one of them will default to such, while the other decides to use some crappy auto oc out of the box.

Not sure why that's hard to understand.



bastian said:


> Same guy also said AMD doesn't have any stock spec for power. Convenient. Well then, how about we throw out all of the power stuff then for both companies then?
> 
> AMD is better right now with power simply because of process. But their chips still get pretty darn hot like Intel's do.


AMDs TDP is not a power consumption figure. The calculation doesn't even involve power anywhere in it other than deciding to write it out in watts. It is merely a number listed to advise the user what size cooler is needed to stock operation, that's it.

Intel's tdp is their power rating at stock levels, completely ignoring boost. During tau boosting, this number is fully ignored and it's new power usage is whatever limit they have in place for PL1/PL2. Once tau boosting is done, it will return close to it tdp value. 

Again, AMD's and intel's tdp's literally cannot be compared as they are both calculated differently. TDP != Power consumption. That is why actual power consumption should be compared.

I couldn't care less which gets hotter. You can blame intel mobo manufacturers for defaulting to mce and infinite tau limits for that bad rap. Stock settings for Intel CPUs do not get hot. This isn't some new revelation.

If you enable pbo on ryzen, guess what, it also gets hot! I know, unbelievable. Hence why stock amd settings have pbo disabled.

Intel and AMDs boosting are completely different and not comparable. Amd doesn't use any sort of time duration for their boosting, it is all power/current/temperature base. This is why when comparing power usage figures, whether it's for 10 second benchmarks or 1000 seconds, the power draw stays the same. With intel, with standard tau settings of 56seconds, that 10 second benchmark will show their chips consuming 190w+, yet the 1000 second benchmark will show 125w.


----------



## fourthavenue

Nizzen said:


> Pleace show us SP number in Bios, and VF curve


I tried the 0031 bios and the VF curve is very different from the 2004 bios. The 0031 gives oddly high voltage numbers (1.4xx V from 4300MHz and on). And the 0031 gives an SP of 80 and 2004 gives an SP of 89.
After tweaking with both versions of the BIOS, I found the overclocking potential is not different, almost the same. It's just the 0031 has slightly more features. 
So I flashed back to the 2004 BIOS and these pictures are the 2004 BIOS VF curve.

I use Prime 95 SmallFFT(default FFT size) as the criteria to determine whether a clock is stable enough to use and I use AIDA64 to benchmark my memory overclocking. I know that few people here likes these two methods. During my overclocking attempts, I couldn't find any voltage/LLC combination that would allow this CPU to run at all-core 5.0G and withstand the Prime95 torture, even 4.9Ghz is impossible. This is a huge degeneration from 9900KS and 10900K. It's incredible. However I managed to get the CPU to complete Cinebench R23 at all-core 5.1GHz and got a fairly good score (against Ryzen 5800X).

Memory overclocking is also mysterious. I'm using a pair of well-binned single rank Bdie to test the memory overclock. I choose this pair because single rank Bdie has now been widely supported by all latest CPUs and all motherboard makers so I should start with this easy one first. I found no matter how I configure it, it just won't boot at 3800 or above. I tried both 1:1 and 1:2. It won't boot on 1:2 either. I really can't understand it. But I can run 3733MHz and tighten the timing to 14-14-14-28 1T 1:1 with moderate voltage (1.5V ram, 1.25v for VCCIO and VCCSA).
I also found that the Write score in AIDA 64 is almost cut to half compared to the Read score. Is this normal for 11th gen or is this the immature Z490 BIOS?


----------



## aznguyen316

Thanks @fourthavenue. Mind sharing Aida memory bench screenshot? Curious how latency and speeds look at the 3733. Someone else mentioned hitting a 3733 wall but on 11700k. Also what was the r23 score? Anyway appreciate the post and efforts!


----------



## fray_bentos

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks @fourthavenue. Mind sharing Aida memory bench screenshot? Curious how latency and speeds look at the 3733. Someone else mentioned hitting a 3733 wall but on 11700k. Also what was the r23 score? Anyway appreciate the post and efforts!


Googling "11700k 3733mhz cap" gives quite a number of "worrying" hits. Is it the same for 11900K? If not then it's an artificial cap for 11700K / 11900K product segmentation.


----------



## FlanK3r

Its clear as day, memory 1:1 on Rocket is hard limit around 3733 MHz, on AUTO is it 3600 MHz and after is change to Gear2 (1:2 to memory controler). Its very similar like Zen2.


----------



## domdtxdissar

weleh said:


> Thought so.
> Doing render scale I get insane numbers too.
> 
> View attachment 2483654





YaqY said:


> I don't see why people modify stuff like render resolution, fail to specify they used it in their original post and then post misleading results here, this forum is for us to get a sense of rocketlake overclocked performance which we won't see from reviewers, please don't mislead with cheesed results...


I didnt know CPU score did get carried by GPU fps.. Anyway here is my 3090 numbers:

50% res scale









100% res scale









Settings:









BTW, what's up with your game version 154 ?


----------



## Nizzen

*Horizon Zero Dawn CODEX? *


----------



## cstkl1

DAM20 said:


> Lol this thread is amazing, full of fanboism, keep it up bois I'm getting some chips!


and here comes ppl who been brainwash by youtubers.


----------



## i9forever

FlanK3r said:


> Its clear as day, memory 1:1 on Rocket is hard limit around 3733 MHz, on AUTO is it 3600 MHz and after is change to Gear2 (1:2 to memory controler). Its very similar like Zen2.


But is it the same for 11900K as well?


----------



## cstkl1

fourthavenue said:


> I tried the 0031 bios and the VF curve is very different from the 2004 bios. The 0031 gives oddly high voltage numbers (1.4xx V from 4300MHz and on). And the 0031 gives an SP of 80 and 2004 gives an SP of 89.
> After tweaking with both versions of the BIOS, I found the overclocking potential is not different, almost the same. It's just the 0031 has slightly more features.
> So I flashed back to the 2004 BIOS and these pictures are the 2004 BIOS VF curve.
> 
> I use Prime 95 SmallFFT(default FFT size) as the criteria to determine whether a clock is stable enough to use and I use AIDA64 to benchmark my memory overclocking. I know that few people here likes these two methods. During my overclocking attempts, I couldn't find any voltage/LLC combination that would allow this CPU to run at all-core 5.0G and withstand the Prime95 torture, even 4.9Ghz is impossible. This is a huge degeneration from 9900KS and 10900K. It's incredible. However I managed to get the CPU to complete Cinebench R23 at all-core 5.1GHz and got a fairly good score (against Ryzen 5800X).
> 
> Memory overclocking is also mysterious. I'm using a pair of well-binned single rank Bdie to test the memory overclock. I choose this pair because single rank Bdie has now been widely supported by all latest CPUs and all motherboard makers so I should start with this easy one first. I found no matter how I configure it, it just won't boot at 3800 or above. I tried both 1:1 and 1:2. It won't boot on 1:2 either. I really can't understand it. But I can run 3733MHz and tighten the timing to 14-14-14-28 1T 1:1 with moderate voltage (1.5V ram, 1.25v for VCCIO and VCCSA).
> I also found that the Write score in AIDA 64 is almost cut to half compared to the Read score. Is this normal for 11th gen or is this the immature Z490 BIOS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2483699
> View attachment 2483700
> View attachment 2483701


mystery indeed when mem clock is 266 stepping and you tried 100:100..

mystery solved. lol


----------



## cstkl1

anyway i tested apex and saw y u guys having trouble with 3866

will post the setting on 30th

extreme plug and play. hero should be the same. 

forget that 1:1 dude

just reminder 1:1 only 100:133 
1:2 you can use both.


----------



## cstkl1

CallMeODZ said:


> trigger warning: cstkl1 don't watch, you'll have da stroke man


err this true. but sad part he doesnt realize the work the faes has done .

these guys work tirelessly.

v/f is right there ya. 1 year now. zero curiosity to understand what it can be used for.

also same conditions and limit?? err intel has VERY high oc factor.


----------



## cstkl1

also did anybody notice. he didnt use asus for the mce thermal testing as its accurate

and while are at it. why not the same yardstick for amd on spec/current/power. oh wait u cant. agesa. underreporting current to lower cpu package power is fine.the cpu wont work as advertise if it did. thats how they solved all previous zen cpu not working as advertise.

he just said asus sio reporting = cpu package power. 
y no curiosity since asus is accurate.. then how come theres deviation on amd. 
answer = agesa. agesa by amd.


----------



## Zucker2k

jomama22 said:


> That is the entire point of testing under stock conditions, as one of them will default to such, while the other decides to use some crappy auto oc out of the box.
> 
> Not sure why that's hard to understand.


And OEM systems perform the same? Do you go and buy a Brabus Merc and remove the turbos because you want to see how the stock engine performs? Maybe reviewers should be testing OEM boxes since most consumers would buy those?


----------



## jomama22

Zucker2k said:


> And OEM systems perform the same? Do you go and buy a Brabus Merc and remove the turbos because you want to see how the stock engine performs? Maybe reviewers should be testing OEM boxes since most consumers would buy those?


And that's why you go to motherboard reviews to see those differences. Also, it's not as though the cpu comes pre installed with those motherboards, does it? Your analogy is a completely different concept then building your own system piece by piece. If you were buying an engine to put into a car, you would look up the engine dyno results, correct? If you were adding turbos to your car, you would look up boost pressure and spool up the, correct? You wouldn't sit there and try to evaluate the turbo or engine based off of what it does I'm a different car then yours, correct?


----------



## cstkl1

Zucker2k said:


> And OEM systems perform the same? Do you go and buy a Brabus Merc and remove the turbos because you want to see how the stock engine performs? Maybe reviewers should be testing OEM boxes since most consumers would buy those?


and nobody ask why that car reporting accurate mileage, power etc. and the other seem ignorantly acting dumb.
on their mobile cpus since it involves batteries.. everything suddenly correct. 

i wonder y eh.


----------



## fourthavenue

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks @fourthavenue. Mind sharing Aida memory bench screenshot? Curious how latency and speeds look at the 3733. Someone else mentioned hitting a 3733 wall but on 11700k. Also what was the r23 score? Anyway appreciate the post and efforts!


coming


----------



## aznguyen316

fourthavenue said:


> coming
> View attachment 2483715
> View attachment 2483716


Thank you that's quite good @ 5.1Ghz with 11900K. Close to OC 10900K @5.1Ghz all core for MT which I have at 16893.


----------



## bastian

fourthavenue said:


> coming
> View attachment 2483715
> View attachment 2483716


Do some game benchmarks and 3dmark tests @ 1080p and 1440p 

What is your SP rating? 47 uncore is nice for Rocket Lake! EDIT: I see you are in the 80s depending on BIOS. Interesting effect.

Hopefully we get a new BIOS for Z490/Z590 soon Extreme/Apex, please oh @shamino1978


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> and nobody ask why that car reporting accurate mileage, power etc. and the other seem ignorantly acting dumb.
> on their mobile cpus since it involves batteries.. everything suddenly correct.
> 
> i wonder y eh.


And no one smart enough confuses tdp and power consumption, but happens all the time. Weird.


----------



## shamino1978

fourthavenue said:


> I tried the 0031 bios and the VF curve is very different from the 2004 bios. The 0031 gives oddly high voltage numbers (1.4xx V from 4300MHz and on). And the 0031 gives an SP of 80 and 2004 gives an SP of 89.


yes 0031 vf is off, will post new fixed bios later on


----------



## menko2

fourthavenue said:


> coming
> View attachment 2483715
> View attachment 2483716


Obviously the ipc gains are there in cinebench. My cpu and ram overclock are not big in my 10900k but it could be a little help to compare.

10900k @5.0ghz 
2x8gb 3900mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.45v.
Z590 Maximus Hero XIII (stock bios that came with mono).

Hopefully it will translate to gaming but I don't think it'll happen for what are seeing in the forum.


----------



## Zucker2k

jomama22 said:


> And that's why you go to motherboard reviews to see those differences. Also, it's not as though the cpu comes pre installed with those motherboards, does it? Your analogy is a completely different concept then building your own system piece by piece.


No, that's exactly my point! The motherboard you bought is designed to run that way, stock. That's the oem default setting. Bone stock, based on their own testing. The only difference between it and a Dell box is that MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, etc. allow you to meddle in their bios.
You carefully select your hardware piece by piece, to borrow your analogy, then once you put them together, you go into the bios and throw a switch that actually decreases the performance of the system you carefully researched and put together. Are you averse to performance? If so, go get yourself a Dell box.
After all, as you said yourself, a cpu needs a motherboard to function, and all astute builders carefully select, pair, and combine components to achieve a certain result. Even pure OEM boxes perform differently due to a variety of factors, including power, cooling, and boost settings.
Edit: In the end, you're building an Intel system, not merely assessing the degree to which Intel has neutered the boosting levels and duration of its own chips in order to conform to certain arbitrary standards you yourself claim neither Intel nor AMD adhere to. TDP is not power consumption, right? No wonder Intel chips are running cooler than AMD chips these days because outside of peak power draw (during boost), they tend to draw less over time, You did the math yourself:
If you're rendering over a period of 30 minutes and an Intel chip draws 190w for 56 seconds then slowly settles down to 125w, while an AMD chip draws 142w for the entire period because the cooling allows it, which system drew more power over the duration of work? The AMD chip will run hotter and faster while the Intel chip should take longer and run cooler. When you factor in process disparity, we shouldn't even be having this conversation, yet here we are. That should say something about both AMD and Intel's ability to execute, shouldn't it?


----------



## cstkl1

Zucker2k said:


> No, that's exactly my point! The motherboard you bought is designed to run that way, stock. That's the oem default setting. Bone stock, based on their own testing. The only difference between it and a Dell box is that MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, etc. allow you to meddle in their bios.
> You carefully select your hardware piece by piece, to borrow your analogy, then once you put them together, you go into the bios and throw a switch that actually decreases the performance of the system you carefully researched and put together. Are you averse to performance? If so, go get yourself a Dell box.
> After all, as you said yourself, a cpu needs a motherboard to function, and all astute builders carefully select, pair, and combine components to achieve a certain result. Even pure OEM boxes perform differently due to a variety of factors, including power, cooling, and boost settings.
> Edit: In the end, you're building an Intel system, not merely assessing the degree to which Intel has neutered the boosting levels and duration of its own chips in order to conform to certain arbitrary standards you yourself claim neither Intel nor AMD adhere to. TDP is not power consumption, right? No wonder Intel chips are running cooler than AMD chips these days because outside of peak power draw (during boost), they tend to draw less over time, You did the math yourself:
> If you're rendering over a period of 30 minutes and an Intel chip draws 190w for 56 seconds then slowly settles down to 125w, while an AMD chip draws 142w for the entire period because the cooling allows it, which system drew more power over the duration of work? The AMD chip will run hotter and faster while the Intel chip should take longer and run cooler. When you factor in process disparity, we shouldn't even be having this conversation, yet here we are. That should say something about both AMD and Intel's ability to execute, shouldn't it?


i get what you are saying

in nutshell.. its akin to
buying a rtx 3090 kingpin and nerf it to FE citing "Nvidia" Spec.

the board has dual bios (master) , postcode, multiple headers for wc etc..
what does ian cut do?? plug in a 15 year archaic copper cooler.

these guys are so idiotic to think they actually know what end user uses. they think ppl would spend usd 1k on cpu/mobo and slap on a usd 30 cooler.

if they are so convince thats the truth?? . why do they open their arms to accept high end mobos?? because its FREE. 
y dont they buy some low end that runs as per intel TAU and 3200 ram. 
same with amd cpu... u dont see them pairing it with some low end usd 100 mobo do u? since u dont need all the vrm and ability to run above 3200.

they lie to aib saying they want to test oc. come on. thats also a joke. they just brute force voltage. zero understanding on ram tweaking. even so many generations of the same architecture... zero interest to get good.

what really annoys me is these guys dont give credit to the faes.
zero credit to the guys who work their ass off so end user can auto everything efficiently.

if they really care about end users.. how come it is END users that always find all the issues and then get the issues raised to be fixed.
These reviewers had the board, cpu for months ya. Lazy. U mean that USB issue that amd is facing now.. it somehow eluded so many of them??
all the free stuff, holidaying etc.. they just missed a simple thing like USB?? If that issue was raised and forwarded to aib and then they worked with the cpu guys.. might have been fixed before launch
its march 2021.. when was zen 3 launch again??


----------



## bastian

Steve says its just easier to run "at spec" lol:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374855957088497664
Sadly it is the common thought amongst most reviewers. So various people will look at results and not realize there are more gains to have if you simply changed a few options.

AMD processors do tend to have more issues running "out of spec" than Intel. But that means you shouldn't run the extra options you paid for on Intel because its not fair to AMD?

I think the best guidance is not to listen to most these reviews. They want you to be boring and open the box and install the CPU and that's it.


----------



## jomama22

Zucker2k said:


> No, that's exactly my point! The motherboard you bought is designed to run that way, stock. That's the oem default setting. Bone stock, based on their own testing. The only difference between it and a Dell box is that MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, etc. allow you to meddle in their bios.
> You carefully select your hardware piece by piece, to borrow your analogy, then once you put them together, you go into the bios and throw a switch that actually decreases the performance of the system you carefully researched and put together. Are you averse to performance? If so, go get yourself a Dell box.
> After all, as you said yourself, a cpu needs a motherboard to function, and all astute builders carefully select, pair, and combine components to achieve a certain result. Even pure OEM boxes perform differently due to a variety of factors, including power, cooling, and boost settings.
> Edit: In the end, you're building an Intel system, not merely assessing the degree to which Intel has neutered the boosting levels and duration of its own chips in order to conform to certain arbitrary standards you yourself claim neither Intel nor AMD adhere to. TDP is not power consumption, right? No wonder Intel chips are running cooler than AMD chips these days because outside of peak power draw (during boost), they tend to draw less over time, You did the math yourself:
> If you're rendering over a period of 30 minutes and an Intel chip draws 190w for 56 seconds then slowly settles down to 125w, while an AMD chip draws 142w for the entire period because the cooling allows it, which system drew more power over the duration of work? The AMD chip will run hotter and faster while the Intel chip should take longer and run cooler. When you factor in process disparity, we shouldn't even be having this conversation, yet here we are. That should say something about both AMD and Intel's ability to execute, shouldn't it?



Like I have said multiple times. I do not care about what each chip pulls in power consumption. What I care about is testing and comparing what stock is as that is the lowest common denominator for reviewing just the cpu. We are looking at the chip in a vacuum with 0 influence from what the mobo could add to it. That's the point I am making.

If you want overclocking reviews, that's fine, they're out there, but that isn't what this is about, is it? It's about comparing stock vs stock performance. If mce or tau durations are on/increased, then the amd part can use pbo or dynamic oc switcher.

What's interesting here is the amd part has better performance per watt at the end of the day anyway.
















In this example, the 5800x (it's closest amd prices/spec'd part) is 1w more over a 5 min period and performs significantly better. It isn't until tau is deviated from stock, increasing it's power up to 50w more than the amd stock part, does it become close.

This same result is true for cinabench.



cstkl1 said:


> i get what you are saying
> 
> in nutshell.. its akin to
> buying a rtx 3090 kingpin and nerf it to FE citing "Nvidia" Spec.
> 
> the board has dual bios (master) , postcode, multiple headers for wc etc..
> what does ian cut do?? plug in a 15 year archaic copper cooler.
> 
> these guys are so idiotic to think they actually know what end user uses. they think ppl would spend usd 1k on cpu/mobo and slap on a usd 30 cooler.
> 
> if they are so convince thats the truth?? . why do they open their arms to accept high end mobos?? because its FREE.
> y dont they buy some low end that runs as per intel TAU and 3200 ram.
> same with amd cpu... u dont see them pairing it with some low end usd 100 mobo do u? since u dont need all the vrm and ability to run above 3200.
> 
> they lie to aib saying they want to test oc. come on. thats also a joke. they just brute force voltage. zero understanding on ram tweaking. even so many generations of the same architecture... zero interest to get good.
> 
> what really annoys me is these guys dont give credit to the faes.
> zero credit to the guys who work their ass off so end user can auto everything efficiently.
> 
> if they really care about end users.. how come it is END users that always find all the issues and then get the issues raised to be fixed.
> These reviewers had the board, cpu for months ya. Lazy. U mean that USB issue that amd is facing now.. it somehow eluded so many of them??
> all the free stuff, holidaying etc.. they just missed a simple thing like USB?? If that issue was raised and forwarded to aib and then they worked with the cpu guys.. might have been fixed before launch
> its march 2021.. when was zen 3 launch again??


You realize people compare the kingpin to...guess what...Nvidias owns FE to see the difference in stock and overclocked (and overclock ability) cards. That is how every aib gpu is compared...to stock!

You are such a fanboy that you forgot I don't give a crap about whether amd or intel is better. All I'm talking about is what stock is for each cpu and having them compared like that.

If you want overclocking reviews, cool, that's fine, they're out there for you. Not sure why it matters so much to you the Gamers Nexus does stock vs stock but ok? I'm guessing it's because of the outcome.


----------



## bastian

> If you want overclocking reviews, cool, that's fine, they're out there for you.


You are literally on a site called OVERCLOCK.NET getting annoyed people would prefer they also show what else can be done simply be adjusting a few settings in BIOS. 

Wild idea: show stock, out of stock, and overclock options.

And I'm pretty sure GN caters to people who like overclocking. They do freaking LN2 live streams whenever there is a new launch of a new CPU/GPU.

Its disingenuous to the millions of subscribers GN has to not show the whole picture.

Maybe cstkl1 is a fanboy. Maybe he isn't. Seems to me you just want to fight him and call him fanboy. I'd suggest moving on from this thread then.


----------



## fourthavenue

shamino1978 said:


> yes 0031 vf is off, will post new fixed bios later on


Is there a new BIOS for Z590 Maximus XIII Hero? I just purchased a Hero and I hope I could get better result with Z590 BIOS.


----------



## jomama22

bastian said:


> You are literally on a site called OVERCLOCK.NET getting annoyed people would prefer they also show what else can be done simply be adjusting a few settings in BIOS.
> 
> Wild idea: show stock, out of stock, and overclock options.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure GN caters to people who like overclocking. They do freaking LN2 live streams whenever there is a new launch of a new CPU/GPU.
> 
> Its disingenuous to the millions of subscribers GN has to not show the whole picture.
> 
> Maybe cstkl1 is a fanboy. Maybe he isn't. Seems to me you just want to fight him and call him fanboy. I'd suggest moving on from this thread then.


I don't want to fight anyone, my whole argument was literally based on his response to his interpretation of what stock is, to which I disagree. I lay my points out and that's it.

If you want some of what the 11700k does when using mce and infinite tau durations, it's right there in GN's power and thermal tests. Simple enough. There are plenty of what the 5800x does when static overclocked and how it performers under pbo, or both (using dynamic oc switcher).

Just because a reviewer uses and compares a product as it comes straight out of the box doesn't nullify it's results.

Tuners, overclockers, modders...doesn't matter what it is, you need to know what it is you're working with out of the box to get the maximum performance out of a product.

And again, GN lays out exactly why they do these types of stock vs stock comparisons. Jumping into overclocking starts to muddy the water in completely keeping a realistic view of what a chip you buy off the shelf can do. Where does the line get drawn? 5.1ghz? 5.2? 5.3? What about where the line is drawn for AMD? PBO only? Static overclock? Using dynamic oc switcher? What ram speeds and timings do we use? 

Stock vs stock is the only common denominator for a true baseline to begin from.


----------



## aznguyen316

cstkl1 said:


> these guys are so idiotic to think they actually know what end user uses. they think ppl would spend usd 1k on cpu/mobo and slap on a usd 30 cooler.
> 
> if they are so convince thats the truth?? . why do they open their arms to accept high end mobos?? because its FREE.
> y dont they buy some low end that runs as per intel TAU and 3200 ram.
> same with amd cpu... u dont see them pairing it with some low end usd 100 mobo do u? since u dont need all the vrm and ability to run above 3200.
> 
> they lie to aib saying they want to test oc. come on. thats also a joke. they just brute force voltage. zero understanding on ram tweaking. even so many generations of the same architecture... zero interest to get good.
> 
> what really annoys me is these guys dont give credit to the faes.
> zero credit to the guys who work their ass off so end user can auto everything efficiently.
> 
> if they really care about end users.. how come it is END users that always find all the issues and then get the issues raised to be fixed.
> These reviewers had the board, cpu for months ya. Lazy. U mean that USB issue that amd is facing now.. it somehow eluded so many of them??
> all the free stuff, holidaying etc.. they just missed a simple thing like USB?? If that issue was raised and forwarded to aib and then they worked with the cpu guys.. might have been fixed before launch
> its march 2021.. when was zen 3 launch again??





> _these guys are so idiotic to think they actually know what end user uses. they think ppl would spend usd 1k on cpu/mobo and slap on a usd 30 cooler._


I don't know, maybe you're in the OCN bubble, but there are so many tech support questions regarding these $1000+ USD CPU/Mobo combos that are very basic, but so many end users are stock and noobs just buying high end stuff. I just saw a question on /r/intel asking about fear of using above 2933 ram with their i9-10900k and Z490 aorus master mobo. 



> _if they are so convince thats the truth?? . why do they open their arms to accept high end mobos?? because its FREE._


Sure it's "FREE" but it is a two way street. ASUS or Gigabyte aren't going to send their low end boards to these channels. Their margins are much better for their high end stuff and branding and FREE Advertising as well. I just see these as a CPU review and they look at stock vs stock, that is their choice. I guess someone needs to make a successful channel on YT to want to look at enthusiast settings for the 1%. I wonder why it's not popular.. probably because it's a very small minority.

About the AMD USB thing, didn't you mention about CPU parity error that has been around since Haswell that is supposedly fixed in RKL? That definitely seems like a long time coming.

I do agree, if someone is going to look at a motherboard review, it would be nice to dive deep into the features and give credit where it is due. Asus BIOS has a lot of cool stuff in Z490/Z590 and they have added some interesting things I've tried messing with, like OCTVB. AI OC is pretty nifty and falkentyne has done some great write up on that which I really appreciate. I've messed with MSI motherboards too and I like some ram OC stuff they have.


----------



## bastian

aznguyen316 said:


> About the AMD USB thing, didn't you mention about CPU parity error that has been around since Haswell that is supposedly fixed in RKL? That definitely seems like a long time coming.


The parity issue is not nearly as annoying as the USB one would be. You could use the CPU all the time and never notice it.

The issue with these guys is many of them don't use the systems like many others do on a daily basis. They do their tests and move on. Many of them even run older hardware in most cases.




aznguyen316 said:


> I do agree, if someone is going to look at a motherboard review, it would be nice to dive deep into the features and give credit where it is due. Asus BIOS has a lot of cool stuff in Z490/Z590 and they have added some interesting things I've tried messing with, like OCTVB. AI OC is pretty nifty and falkentyne has done some great write up on that which I really appreciate. I've messed with MSI motherboards too and I like some ram OC stuff they have.


ASUS and @shamino1978 are at the top of the game. IMHO, ASUS BIOS doesn't even compete with anyone else ATM. Even on the X570 side with the Dark Hero, it is the only board people should be considering. I guess hence why it is always out of the stock compared to others.


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> I don't know, maybe you're in the OCN bubble, but there are so many tech support questions regarding these $1000+ USD CPU/Mobo combos that are very basic, but so many end users are stock and noobs just buying high end stuff. I just saw a question on /r/intel asking about fear of using above 2933 ram with their i9-10900k and Z490 aorus master mobo.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's "FREE" but it is a two way street. ASUS or Gigabyte aren't going to send their low end boards to these channels. Their margins are much better for their high end stuff and branding and FREE Advertising as well. I just see these as a CPU review and they look at stock vs stock, that is their choice. I guess someone needs to make a successful channel on YT to want to look at enthusiast settings for the 1%. I wonder why it's not popular.. probably because it's a very small minority.
> 
> About the AMD USB thing, didn't you mention about CPU parity error that has been around since Haswell that is supposedly fixed in RKL? That definitely seems like a long time coming.
> 
> I do agree, if someone is going to look at a motherboard review, it would be nice to dive deep into the features and give credit where it is due. Asus BIOS has a lot of cool stuff in Z490/Z590 and they have added some interesting things I've tried messing with, like OCTVB. AI OC is pretty nifty and falkentyne has done some great write up on that which I really appreciate. I've messed with MSI motherboards too and I like some ram OC stuff they have.


haswell doesnt have this flaw , hedt also. it has ivr.

this happens only on mainly on oc or ram third timings combination in conjunction with loadline.

boards need proper review. the idiocy of buying because of numbers is what lead to marketing hyping up 100amp phases for 8core. hence the prices. this is caused by a youtuber who now is backtracking everything he started.

the review should be BIOS with engineering behind it. this would help ppl to really justify paying for godlike/extreme etc vs formula/hero/unify etc.

a idiotuber just said this btw.. hey u get everything same on strix vs hero or unify vs ace.. do u guys actually believe the ram tuning, sio accuracy etc the same??
its not one tuning fits all board ya.

look at kitguru last year. thermaltake was crazy to send them a 4600 djr kit. he didnt know what to do with it. he had no problem accepting the kit though.
how old is that dude. zero curiosity in overclocking/tuning.

so many things are just being overlooked as "enthuiast only" when bioses now are tuned to plug and play level.

these influencers creates this fear of "the enthusiast" to stay stagnant because it helps their credibility.

btw if u look at asus sales/profit margin.. and their fan base. they dont need the west influencers.. the trust in ROG is so strong in asia.. its sometimes gone to crazy level. extreme boards like z490 asus sold here usd 1k was sold out for months.


----------



## cstkl1

no giga/msi users with rkl?

really curious on msi ram and giga tachyon. 
considering buying that board once i get a look at the bios .


----------



## DAM20

cstkl1 said:


> and here comes ppl who been brainwash by youtubers.


Not really... Most of these posts are blunt fanboism, you're free to buy whatever you want don't get me wrong, but "attacking" people with a different opinion than yours or keep inforcing your view by posting s****y benchmark pics, is just nonsense.

If you want to buy a 5800X that consumes more, go for it, but the reason should be price/perf, not "Made by Intel UwU".


----------



## Kana Chan

cstkl1 said:


> no giga/msi users with rkl?
> 
> really curious on msi ram and giga tachyon.
> considering buying that board once i get a look at the bios .


you reviewing the msi unify?


----------



## cstkl1

DAM20 said:


> Not really... Most of these posts are blunt fanboism, you're free to buy whatever you want don't get me wrong, but "attacking" people with a different opinion than yours or keep inforcing your view by posting s****y benchmark pics, is just nonsense.
> 
> If you want to buy a 5800X that consumes more, go for it, but the reason should be price/perf, not "Made by Intel UwU".


you just came in saying all fanbois and now reversed the context as you have came with all good intentions other than to start something on fanboism based on your narrative

funny. 
again zero useful posting from you other than to drive your narrative for youself. anyway high IQ my foot. Just ignore better.


----------



## cstkl1

Kana Chan said:


> you reviewing the msi unify?


unless they improve on their aida since z490... 
giga was not bad just on cml just bad on latency due odd RTL/iol
nobody curious about "tachyon"??


----------



## cstkl1

Stock Cpu, Stock Strix, Not Stock Ram
This game fps counter seems a bit whack. its affected even by having afterburner running.
Edit he used High.. hmm ok will retest later..

F1 2020
Settings
High, TAA checkered board, Australia, Cycle
nothing conclusive here since no idea what settings he use but here it is anyway

 

pretty sure its a different setting with GN.. cause the fps here doesnt make any sense..


----------



## fourthavenue

cstkl1 said:


> no giga/msi users with rkl?
> 
> really curious on msi ram and giga tachyon.
> considering buying that board once i get a look at the bios .


MSI has been working hard on memory overclocking. Their BIOS supports more memory models than ASUS does. ASUS does better at CPU overclocking.
I bought a few MSI motherboards for both AMD and Intel platforms because I value memory overclocking more. But MSI Z490 Ace really disappointed me. It seemed in 2020 MSI spent most their effort on advertising and social media marketing and weakened their R&D. So I'll keep sticking to ASUS in the future.


----------



## YaqY

fourthavenue said:


> MSI has been working hard on memory overclocking. Their BIOS supports more memory models than ASUS does. ASUS does better at CPU overclocking.
> I bought a few MSI motherboards for both AMD and Intel platforms because I value memory overclocking more. But MSI Z490 Ace really disappointed me. It seemed in 2020 MSI spent most their effort on advertising and social media marketing and weakened their R&D. So I'll keep sticking to ASUS in the future.


I had the MSI Z490 Unify, one of the worst bios for memory overclocking, switched to the Apex and it is infinitely better. MSI Z490 was a big disappointment. They also lack features such as VTT control in bios.


----------



## cstkl1

fourthavenue said:


> MSI has been working hard on memory overclocking. Their BIOS supports more memory models than ASUS does. ASUS does better at CPU overclocking.
> I bought a few MSI motherboards for both AMD and Intel platforms because I value memory overclocking more. But MSI Z490 Ace really disappointed me. It seemed in 2020 MSI spent most their effort on advertising and social media marketing and weakened their R&D. So I'll keep sticking to ASUS in the future.


dunno dude.. their gpu line up on Ampere also was totally unlike them. turing was decent.

they seem to do a year of good and second year of screw u.

also memory clocking.. i am not looking for "SUPPORT".. cause normally that comes with the expense of performance like msi z490 did.
so far challenger this time for me is giga.. since theres no IOL.. and curious how will they implement Intel MRC on RTL tuning.

err theres a few things asus did.. magic.. actually HIM that did it. .....magic... not sure the other board makers found the same things..


----------



## Nizzen

CB 23
11700k 5ghz all core
4800 mhz b-die









11700k 5ghz all core
3733 c14 1:1


----------



## bastian

Nizzen said:


> CB 23
> 11700k 5ghz all core
> 4800 mhz b-die
> View attachment 2483787
> 
> 
> 11700k 5ghz all core
> 3733 c14 1:1
> View attachment 2483788


I mean my 10900k at 5.1 is only a tad higher score in MT than 11700k. Not bad considering less core/threads.

Hilarious seeing the 16 core Threadripper 1950x matching the 8 core 11700k.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> CB 23
> 11700k 5ghz all core
> 4800 mhz b-die
> 
> 
> 11700k 5ghz all core
> 3733 c14 1:1


try this bro

Per core Usage
53 1-3 core
the rest all 50
Forgot the naming but its cpu core limit
limit your fav core to 53
the rest to 50
SET LLC 8
vcore auto
control via v/f for 53 and 50 voltage
set your desired cache maybe fixed at 45/46 or min 45 max 47 etc...


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> try this bro
> 
> Per core Usage
> 53 1-3 core
> the rest all 50
> Forgot the naming but its cpu core limit
> limit your fav core to 53
> the rest to 50
> SET LLC 8
> vcore auto
> control via v/f for 53 and 50 voltage
> set your desired cache maybe fixed at 45/46 or min 45 max 47 etc...


Only 2 cores is favored * .... Just pick a random 3. core to set to 53?

Use v/f, is it SVID Behavior? - Best case?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Only 2 cores is favored * .... Just pick a random 3. core to set to 53?
> 
> Use v/f, is it SVID Behavior?


no bro
v/f like the one that shows your vid
you can adjust the vcore for 5ghz over there based on the vid request
and sham has given i think for 11700k an option for one more vid above 5 right...

let me see moeben ss


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen

ok found @Talon2016 v/f


http://imgur.com/a/c2Tbjpv


so you can control 5ghz on V/F point 7
and you can control say 5.3ghz for example v/f point 8

First set per core usage instead of sync all core with cpu voltage auto
set 1-2 core load 53 and the rest all 50
then under specific core
limit your FAV 2 core to 53 or any other that you know has low temp

set LLC 8 so you can UP cache while you are doing this. ( i am not also sure this will work cause generally i had to use manual vcore to up cache high)

thats all bro.

11900k is
53,53,51,51,49,49,48,48


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> no bro
> v/f like the one that shows your vid
> you can adjust the vcore for 5ghz over there based on the vid request
> and sham has given i think for 11700k an option for one more vid above 5 right...
> 
> let me see moeben ss


LOL I think you need to write step buy step. Never did this before. Tried this for my 7980xe years ago. Gave up, and sat all core OC


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> LOL I think you need to write step buy step. Never did this before. Tried this for my 7980xe years ago. Gave up, and sat all core OC


eh this is different slightly..
@shamino1978 given us the ability to use vid request via V/F so we can maintain proper offset

so in RKL we have control per core what clocks we can run at. except since theres no IVR we are limited to one cpu voltage control
to circumvent this luckily asus has v/f

so in 11700k v/f point 7 controls up to 5ghz vid and point 8 controls anything beyond 5
so first thing is to up the fav core so u get the 2 core 5.3 ghz ( i think its in advance/cpu etc u can see which core that is.. or just choose a core that has the lowest temp based on your testing)
so set per core usage ( this means 1-2 core load will up to 5.3ghz etc etc)
so set 1 and 2 core load 5.3
the rest 5.0ghz
but the problem here is it can be on any core right.. it will be erratic
so this is where specific core option comes in
u choose which core to go to 53 limit and the rest 5ghz limit

and also since RKL vid = vmin approximately .. we can go LLC8 with this.

use point 8 on v/f for your 5.3ghz voltage.

also keep svid behavior on auto ya so all loadline works properly.


----------



## fourthavenue

cstkl1 said:


> try this bro
> 
> Per core Usage
> 53 1-3 core
> the rest all 50
> Forgot the naming but its cpu core limit
> limit your fav core to 53
> the rest to 50
> SET LLC 8
> vcore auto
> control via v/f for 53 and 50 voltage
> set your desired cache maybe fixed at 45/46 or min 45 max 47 etc...


how do you know which should be the favorable core?


----------



## cstkl1

fourthavenue said:


> how do you know which should be the favorable core?


if i am not mistaken go to advance/cpu its there somewhere..

currently doing something on that comp.. cant check..


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> 
> ok found @Talon2016 v/f
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/c2Tbjpv
> 
> 
> so you can control 5ghz on V/F point 7
> and you can control say 5.3ghz for example v/f point 8
> 
> First set per core usage instead of sync all core with cpu voltage auto
> set 1-2 core load 53 and the rest all 50
> then under specific core
> limit your FAV 2 core to 53 or any other that you know has low temp
> 
> set LLC 8 so you can UP cache while you are doing this. ( i am not also sure this will work cause generally i had to use manual vcore to up cache high)
> 
> thats all bro.
> 
> 11900k is
> 53,53,51,51,49,49,48,48


53 was too much. Running 52-52-rest 50 as we speak 

Running R23 singlecore.


----------



## Nizzen

fourthavenue said:


> how do you know which should be the favorable core?


In my bios it has "*" in front of the cores.
core 1
core 2
core 3
core 4*
core 5*
core 6
core 7
core 8


----------



## Nizzen

Per core OC
52 x2
50 x6


----------



## Nizzen

So does this sux compared to the 23% more expensive Ryzen 5800x?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone able to delid the 11th gen without kill it yet?


----------



## ogider

YaqY said:


> I had the MSI Z490 Unify, one of the worst bios for memory overclocking,


I have z490 unify with 2x16 bdie. Working ok. 4400c16 flat.I guess apex like could be 4700MHz but also cost 80% more.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> So does this sux compared to the 23% more expensive Ryzen 5800x?


did u do as i mention cause thats
52-2 load
50-8 load

but if u want
52-2 ,50-6 permanent

set sync all core 52
under specific core set 50 to limit all the other cores and 52 on the 2 core of your choosing
that will keep that two cores always 52..
but this one kindda bad cause 2 core load can be anycore...


----------



## i9forever

DAM20 said:


> Not really... Most of these posts are blunt fanboism, you're free to buy whatever you want don't get me wrong, but "attacking" people with a different opinion than yours or keep inforcing your view by posting s****y benchmark pics, is just nonsense.
> 
> If you want to buy a 5800X that consumes more, go for it, but the reason should be price/perf, not "Made by Intel UwU".


It was not an attack, it´s just a fact. Look, all those youtubers live of commercials. More views = more money. The AMD got more activists fans on the "internet" than the Intel. Those fans want to hear good things about the AMD and bad things about the Intel. Take a guess: If you want to have more views, comments, likes etc., which group of fans do you prefer? Considering youtubers have to pay bills, need money as everyone else etc., majority of them will prefer to do content for AMD. And now comes the brainwashing. Youtubers compete with each to other and their reviews are usually not objective. If you need more viewers, you are gonna use clickbaits like Intel is dead, Waste of silikon etc. And these influencers tell fans what they want to hear. If someone in the discussion expresses a different opinion, he is ridiculed and his post gets crap loads of down votes. We are presented here the crushing victory of AMD. But is it really so? Isn't it really just that after years of the 7 nanometers process, AMD has managed to catch up with Intel in games? Because the results in 1440p are almost the same between the Zen3 and 10th gen. The point is that Intel also has more room to increase its performance over "in stock", and upcoming 11th gen is gonna take gaming crown back to the Intel.
Whats AMD defense? PR. Youtubers doing "final like" reviews on unfinished microcode, claiming how bad the Intel is. AMD fans are in extase, swarming in all the discussions, shaming the Intel.
AMD got corrupted USB ports - AMD fans don´t care. Few months of WHEA errors? Not a problem! Random reeboots? Nah, who cares! Buggy AGESA all the time? No, AGESA is fine, it´s AIB fault! 90°C temperatures? It´s all right, working as intended! Lol Intel consumes nearly 300W! What about the fact that this consumption is only in the AVX512, and that when gaming, the consumption is almost the same. But AMD is faster (1 fps in 1440p?) lol who buys Intel nowadays lol haha xD. Brainwashing at its best.
Youtubers influence all the audience. And because of the money, the course is already set no matter what.


----------



## cstkl1

i9forever said:


> It was not an attack, it´s just a fact. Look, all those youtubers live of commercials. More views = more money. The AMD got more activists fans on the "internet" than the Intel. Those fans want to hear good things about the AMD and bad things about the Intel. Take a guess: If you want to have more views, comments, likes etc., which group of fans do you prefer? Considering youtubers have to pay bills, need money as everyone else etc., majority of them will prefer to do content for AMD. And now comes the brainwashing. Youtubers compete with each to other and their reviews are usually not objective. If you need more viewers, you are gonna use clickbaits like Intel is dead, Waste of silikon etc. And these influencers tell fans what they want to hear. If someone in the discussion expresses a different opinion, he is ridiculed and his post gets crap loads of down votes. We are presented here the crushing victory of AMD. But is it really so? Isn't it really just that after years of the 7 nanometers process, AMD has managed to catch up with Intel in games? Because the results in 1440p are almost the same between the Zen3 and 10th gen. The point is that Intel also has more room to increase its performance over "in stock", and upcoming 11th gen is gonna take gaming crown back to the Intel.
> Whats AMD defense? PR. Youtubers doing "final like" reviews on unfinished microcode, claiming how bad the Intel is. AMD fans are in extase, swarming in all the discussions, shaming the Intel.
> AMD got corrupted USB ports - AMD fans don´t care. Few months of WHEA errors? Not a problem! Random reeboots? Nah, who cares! Buggy AGESA all the time? No, AGESA is fine, it´s AIB fault! 90°C temperatures? It´s all right, working as intended! Lol Intel consumes nearly 300W! What about the fact that this consumption is only in the AVX512, and that when gaming, the consumption is almost the same. But AMD is faster (1 fps in 1440p?) lol who buys Intel nowadays lol haha xD. Brainwashing at its best.
> Youtubers influence all the audience. And because of the money, the course is already set no matter what.


btw you can PERMA disable avx and avx 512 in the bios.
( dont do avx though as some games etc uses it)

but stevo from GN with da hero board.. and No F given on spending time with bios.. who gives a damn right..

also here is a fact in OCN..
if i behave like how some of these guys behave on this thread.. in AMD section.... its insta warning. cause it will be reported. But here were all adults right.. just ignore the dude.

@YaqY you remember reddit. when i just mentioned one time intel favors bandwidth and not latency.. the **** i got for that because apparently AMD truth is universal just because they have a ****ty infinity fabric IMC that punishes 1:2.

embrace 1:2.. go HIGH..


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> did u do as i mention cause thats
> 52-2 load
> 50-8 load
> 
> but if u want
> 52-2 ,50-6 permanent
> 
> set sync all core 52
> under specific core set 50 to limit all the other cores and 52 on the 2 core of your choosing
> that will keep that two cores always 52..
> but this one kindda bad cause 2 core load can be anycore...


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone able to delid the 11th gen without kill it yet?


I don't want to kill my 11700k before 11900k arrives 
Chill bro


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> btw you can PERMA disable avx and avx 512 in the bios.
> ( dont do avx though as some games etc uses it)


You mean not just set an offset but actually disable it entirely? With what BIOS/board is that?


----------



## Kana Chan

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone able to delid the 11th gen without kill it yet?


 This should work for any soldered IHS ( some ppl flip it upside down with a lighter to weaken the IHS ) taken from a vid


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> You mean not just set an offset but actually disable it entirely? With what BIOS/board is that?


Like z490 Apex


----------



## roooo

Obviously not with Z490 Formula, which I have. Do you know about the Z590 Hero?


----------



## weleh

Nizzen said:


> So does this sux compared to the 23% more expensive Ryzen 5800x?


It's pretty close to my fully tunned 5800X, bit worse the 11700K you posted.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> You mean not just set an offset but actually disable it entirely? With what BIOS/board is that?


yup. any asus board. perma disable. even cpuz wont show it. 
prime will grey out


----------



## Nizzen

weleh said:


> It's pretty close to my fully tunned 5800X, bit worse the 11700K you posted.


Care to post Timespy cpu score?


----------



## weleh

Nizzen said:


> Care to post Timespy cpu score?
> 
> View attachment 2483803


This is 800 points faster than my best score.


----------



## Nizzen

weleh said:


> This is 800 points faster than my best score.


Perfect, because I just started to tune the memory with "stock" cpu


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## weleh

Nizzen said:


> Perfect, because I just started to tune the memory with "stock" cpu


To be fair, my 5800X ****s on 10700K but gets wrecked in Time Spy too by about the same margin or so, so to me it was expected.


----------



## roooo

It seems Asus released BIOS version 0605 for the Z590 Hero today. The website reads "Update Intel Microcode for RKL-S Processors" among others. Unfortunately, I can't test it yet. Anyone with that board and RKL gave it a go yet?


----------



## Nizzen

weleh said:


> To be fair, my 5800X ****s on 10700K but gets wrecked in Time Spy too by about the same margin or so, so to me it was expected.


To be fair, I haven't seen any of your scores yet. So it's a bit difficult to compare to you epic 5800x


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2483805
> 
> View attachment 2483807


What voltages: Vdimm, SA, IO?


----------



## fourthavenue

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2483805


How did you get it running at 4800? I can't boot at any clock higher than 3733


----------



## Nizzen

fray_bentos said:


> What voltages: Vdimm, SA, IO?


1.6 Vdram
1.3 SA
1.25 IO


----------



## Nizzen

fourthavenue said:


> How did you get it running at 4800? I can't boot at any clock higher than 3733


Running Single Rank @ 1:2 mode


----------



## fourthavenue

Nizzen said:


> To be fair, I haven't seen any of your scores yet. So it's a bit difficult to compare to you epic 5800x


The score of my 11900K running at all-core 5.1GHz is almost identical to a PBO 5800x. You can take this as a reference and your 11700K is apparently amazing value.


----------



## weleh

Nizzen said:


> To be fair, I haven't seen any of your scores yet. So it's a bit difficult to compare to you epic 5800x


Don't want to flood 11th gen thread with Zen 3 benches but I'm watching you guys and atm, not "impressed" but it's still too early because bios/tweaking/nda, etc.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> To be fair, I haven't seen any of your scores yet. So it's a bit difficult to compare to you epic 5800x


Are you sure you want to compare your rocket lake cpu against a optimized 8 core zen3 PBO CO setup, in Cinebench ?
It wont be pretty..


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> Are you sure you want to compare your rocket lake cpu against a optimized 8 core zen3 PBO CO setup, in Cinebench ?
> It wont be pretty..


You have a 5950x 
We know that....

I just want to compare in different things. Not just Cinebench, because playing CB all day long is pretty boring


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> You have a 5950x
> We know that....


You know its easy peasy to disable one CCD and run it as a 8core 5800x


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> You know its easy peasy to disable one CCD and run it as a 8core 5800x


Yes, and?
It still ain't a 5800x 
Disable one CCD, and still uses 72MB cache vs 36MB on 5800x?


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> Yes, and?
> It still ain't a 5800x
> Disable one CCD, and still uses 72MB cache vs 36MB on 5800x?


You are mistaken, 32mb L3 cache per CCD.. 
With one CCD disabled it behave 100% like a 5800x, just really good binned 5800x


----------



## Zucker2k

domdtxdissar said:


> You are mistaken, 32mb L3 cache per CCD..
> With one CCD disabled it behave 100% like a 5800x, just really good binned 5800x


Thought Zen 3 cache is unified?


----------



## domdtxdissar

Zucker2k said:


> Thought Zen 3 cache is unified?


Yes, but only per CCD
5950 = 2x 8core CCD with 32mb L3 each (64mb L3 in total for the whole CPU)
5900 = 2x 6core CCD with 32mb L3 each (64mb L3 in total for the whole CPU)

5950x with one CCD disabled = 8core 5800x with 32mb L3 in total = behave exactly like a good binned 5800x (higher default boost clocks. 4900mhz vs 4700mhz)
5900x with one CCD disabled = 6core 5600x with 32mb L3 in total = behave exactly like a good binned 5600x (higher default boost clocks, 4800mhz vs 4600mhz)







1 CCD = 8 core chiplet with 32mb L3
These CCDs used in 5900x and 5600x have 2 cores disabled from the maximum 8 core per CCD (binning and silicon quality)


----------



## menko2

I'm still trying to get a decent dual rank 2x16gb ram kit for my Z590 Maximus Hero XIII.

I want to get one from the compability list of my motherboard but it's strange. It's supposed to be daisy chain but there are many 4x8gb kits and only three 2x16gb.

The best of my options is g.skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZR. It's a samsung b die @1.35v.

Will be enough for gaming with the 11900k?


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> I'm still trying to get a decent dual rank 2x16gb ram kit for my Z590 Maximus Hero XIII.
> 
> I want to get one from the compability list of my motherboard but it's strange. It's supposed to be daisy chain but there are many 4x8gb kits and only three 2x16gb.
> 
> The best of my options is g.skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZR. It's a samsung b die @1.35v.
> 
> Will be enough for gaming with the 11900k?


Why not g.skill 4266c17 2x16. Comp list to 

Intel Z490
ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME
ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA
ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI)

Intel Z490 (DIMM slot x2)
ROG MAXIMUS XII APEX

So 100% in comp list to any z590 Asus boards too


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> Why not g.skill 4266c17 2x16. Comp list to
> 
> Intel Z490
> ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME
> ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA
> ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI)
> 
> Intel Z490 (DIMM slot x2)
> ROG MAXIMUS XII APEX
> 
> So 100% in comp list to any z590 Asus boards too


I have been looking for this one but I can't find it here in Spain.

Maybe since the one I can get is slower and worst latency but with 1.35v...could get to similar to the one you sent me (4266c17) pushing the voltage to 1.5v?


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> I have been looking for this one but I can't find it here in Spain.
> 
> Maybe since the one I can get is slower and worst latency but with 1.35v...could get to similar to the one you sent me (4266c17) pushing the voltage to 1.5v?


4266c17 kit has a new pcb that is capable of 4700+mhz on dualrank  That is why we want this kits. I have 4000c19 2x16 g.skill, and it does 4400 "max"


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> 4266c17 kit has a new pcb that is capable of 4700+mhz on dualrank  That is why we want this kits. I have 4000c19 2x16 g.skill, and it does 4400 "max"


Ok got it. I didn't know about that. 

But with 1.5v for 4266c17 you can't put the voltage up to get 4700mhz no? Over 1.5v for 24/7 sounds like a lot.


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> Ok got it. I didn't know about that.
> 
> But with 1.5v for 4266c17 you can't put the voltage up to get 4700mhz no? Over 1.5v for 24/7 sounds like a lot.


Fan over the Dimms, or watercool them 

Fan does the trick, but water is <<cooler>>


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> So does this sux compared to the 23% more expensive Ryzen 5800x?


Nice score!


----------



## Groove2013

domdtxdissar said:


> You know its easy peasy to disable one CCD and run it as a 8core 5800x


Nobody will buy a 5950X to disable half of it in the end.
So 5800X stays lower bin = lower frequency at same or even higher voltage and temperature.


----------



## Talon2016

roooo said:


> It seems Asus released BIOS version 0605 for the Z590 Hero today. The website reads "Update Intel Microcode for RKL-S Processors" among others. Unfortunately, I can't test it yet. Anyone with that board and RKL gave it a go yet?


I doubt this is newer than the 0610 I am running. Maybe it is though since mine is likely a beta. Anyone know?


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> haswell doesnt have this flaw , hedt also. it has ivr.
> 
> this happens only on mainly on oc or ram third timings combination in conjunction with loadline.
> 
> boards need proper review. the idiocy of buying because of numbers is what lead to marketing hyping up 100amp phases for 8core. hence the prices. this is caused by a youtuber who now is backtracking everything he started.
> 
> the review should be BIOS with engineering behind it. this would help ppl to really justify paying for godlike/extreme etc vs formula/hero/unify etc.
> 
> a idiotuber just said this btw.. hey u get everything same on strix vs hero or unify vs ace.. do u guys actually believe the ram tuning, sio accuracy etc the same??
> its not one tuning fits all board ya.
> 
> look at kitguru last year. thermaltake was crazy to send them a 4600 djr kit. he didnt know what to do with it. he had no problem accepting the kit though.
> how old is that dude. zero curiosity in overclocking/tuning.
> 
> so many things are just being overlooked as "enthuiast only" when bioses now are tuned to plug and play level.
> 
> these influencers creates this fear of "the enthusiast" to stay stagnant because it helps their credibility.
> 
> btw if u look at asus sales/profit margin.. and their fan base. they dont need the west influencers.. the trust in ROG is so strong in asia.. its sometimes gone to crazy level. extreme boards like z490 asus sold here usd 1k was sold out for months.


Technically, the "parity error" goes back farther than Ivy Bridge. But it was never a real concern until Skylake and only became a bigger problem with larger thread counts.








WHEA Error Alert Guide (or "How I got out of...


WHEA Error Alert Guide (or "How I got out of WHEAville") This guide is to show you how to assign a task to a WHEA Error event that will display a message (or maybe send you an email) when a WHEA Error occurs. WHEA Errors are considered a sign by some people that your overclock is unstable. If...




www.overclock.net




It only got noticed when there was a microcode update for Haswell which started spamming parity errors like crazy, which I think was an errata.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

menko2 said:


> Ok got it. I didn't know about that.
> 
> But with 1.5v for 4266c17 you can't put the voltage up to get 4700mhz no? Over 1.5v for 24/7 sounds like a lot.


The 2x16gb 4266CL17 Bin is one of the best b-die bins you can buy.
But it's like every time luck, i have selected 3200Cl14-14 kit's and there was also a kit that can't boot @1,5v CL16-16 over 3600mhz.
My Kit boot [email protected],5v up to 4400Mhz.

It's easier to find an awesome kit with a bin like the 2x16gb 4266'er.


----------



## Nizzen

*@cstkl1 
Is it far away from 11900k and 5000mhz+ DJR ?*


----------



## Falkentyne

So what's the highest you guys can PLAY VIDEO GAMES stable on your CPU's on all core?
E.g. Battlefield 5?


----------



## Nizzen

Nizzen said:


> *@cstkl1
> Is it far away from 11900k and 5000mhz+ DJR ?*
> 
> View attachment 2483831





cstkl1 said:


> was thinking how to show something without breaking anything and then let ppl judge by themseves
> 
> Stock cpu, Stock strix, Not stock ram, Plex/Torrent Windows.. so no optimization on this other than network.
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to think alot of magical thing about bios
> 
> ASUS default is mce enabled. So he manually limited the cpu. Theres no diff bios that implemented tau diff. the ucode update is mainly for i9.
> THERES NO INTEL GUIDELINE for 11700k for reviewers.
> And you have no clue what data sheet is and the transparency it brings even on ram turnaround timings.
> 
> AMD is running their cpu out of wattage spec purposely because its the only way it can run as advertise. theres no electrical data sheet cause theres no default spec. ppl seem to always blame aib. they seem to think having high temp, low current on idle is fine. not having a proper working cstate is fine. a usb nonsense that related to cpu because of agesa is fine. that what happens when the cpu is faulty from the start. its very apparent when mobile versions works as advertise including power usage but desktop ones are purposely being pushed higher because their binning is faulty.
> 
> you seem to make ALOT of assumptions.





weleh said:


> My own 5800X @3800c14 @PBO/CO tweaked for comparison's sake.
> 
> View attachment 2483634





cstkl1 said:


> What dufus on da net vs what rkl actually capable off.





Antsu said:


> This, lmao. I could've posted this result as my 'daily settings'
> View attachment 2483666


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> So what's the highest you guys can PLAY VIDEO GAMES stable on your CPU's on all core?
> E.g. Battlefield 5?


5.1ghz 11700k and 5.5ghz 10900k. 

Hoping for 5.5ghz 11900k direct die


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> 5.1ghz 11700k and 5.5ghz 10900k.
> 
> Hoping for 5.5ghz 11900k direct die


Try 5.2 ghz? Don't stress test and don't run cinebench.
Just videogames.
Try 1.55v set LLC6.


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Try 5.2 ghz? Don't stress test and don't run cinebench.
> Just videogames.
> Try 1.55v set LLC6.


Can't try 10900k now, because Rocket Lake is borrowing the socket now LOL


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> Try 5.2 ghz? Don't stress test and don't run cinebench.
> Just videogames.
> Try 1.55v set LLC6.


Damn is RKL just able to use higher voltages safely?


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> Can't try 10900k now, because Rocket Lake is borrowing the socket now LOL


nonono I mean 5.2 ghz on rocket lake.
1.55v LLC6.
Comet lake is old and too easy (except parity error).


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> nonono I mean 5.2 ghz on rocket lake.
> 1.55v LLC6.
> Comet lake is old and too easy (except parity error).


I'll try, but I don't think my poor 11700k will like it  
Not the best bin in the world LOL


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> I'll try, but I don't think my poor 11700k will like it
> Not the best bin in the world LOL


Remember just gaming test.


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Remember just gaming test.


For me it's Battlefield V or Hell Let Loose


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> For me it's Battlefield V or Hell Let Loose


BF5 works.


----------



## Astral85

It doesn't look like anyone's mentioned temps yet. Can the guys with 11700K/11900K give some indication of load temps/thermals?


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> Are you sure you want to compare your rocket lake cpu against a optimized 8 core zen3 PBO CO setup, in Cinebench ?
> It wont be pretty..





Nizzen said:


> Care to post Timespy cpu score?


post bro. no problem. 

@Nizzen 
nice scores bro

@weleh 
10700k needs like 5.4ghz for 14k on ts physics score.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 4266c17 kit has a new pcb that is capable of 4700+mhz on dualrank  That is why we want this kits. I have 4000c19 2x16 g.skill, and it does 4400 "max"


errr i didnt know that about da new pcb

looking at that ram chucked into the drawer..
didnt bother with it since it couldnt beat my other DR djr 4kc17 kit..


----------



## cstkl1

if possible cml guys
F1 2020
High 1080/1440, TAA checkered
Aus , cycle

i really have no clue what reviewers are running. only a pinoy review actually stated what they set except he used a 3070.


----------



## aznguyen316

Is the specific cores a Maximus only thing or a RKL only thing or both? Don’t recall seeing it on a z590-E Strix with 10900k but would like to try to set that once I get a 11700k in to mess with.


----------



## GanjaSMK

aznguyen316 said:


> Is the specific cores a Maximus only thing or a RKL only thing or both? Don’t recall seeing it on a z590-E Strix with 10900k but would like to try to set that once I get a 11700k in to mess with.


You've been able to select specific cores for boost for several iterations ifrc.


----------



## Talon2016

The more I use RKL and get it tuned up I love it. RKL loves tuned memory for huge gains in performance. I don't miss my 10900K one bit, the loss of 2 cores is easily made up for with the additional IPC and it's no competition in gaming or single core tasks. Not to mention Skylake is a very well tuned, updated, ancient arch. Rocket Lake has barely been given a chance.


----------



## Falkentyne

GanjaSMK said:


> You've been able to select specific cores for boost for several iterations ifrc.


Yes you can change the "favored cores" for boost manually.
This was first added on Z390 but was completely undocumented with absolutely no explanation on how this worked, and only some motherboards even allowed you to do this and there were no favored cores. You were on your own here. It was also next to impossible to get this working reliably in windows the way you wanted it to work because windows thread scheduler didn't support such a feature reliably.

This became a documented feature for Z490 on Winver 1903 and newer, with the addition of the "favored cores" but the favored cores are always the best cores, so you really shouldn't change the ones that get the highest boost.
More information after NDA expires.


----------



## aznguyen316

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2483793
> View attachment 2483794


I mean this option that says specific cores. I don’t even remember seeing it even on z490 hero I had briefly. 

I know there’s by core usage for #cores and ratios but I don’t recall seeing specific cores options like in the pic above.

See here is my 0610 z590-E Strix with 10900k. Nothing below by core usage that says specific cores.


----------



## shamino1978

aznguyen316 said:


> I mean this option that says specific cores. I don’t even remember seeing it even on z490 hero I had briefly.
> 
> I know there’s by core usage for #cores and ratios but I don’t recall seeing specific cores options like in the pic above.
> 
> See here is my 0610 z590-E Strix with 10900k. Nothing below by core usage that says specific cores.


It is added only for rkl since previously all cores share the same pll and not very meaningful to cap by specific core since at any tine they can only be same freq


----------



## aznguyen316

shamino1978 said:


> It is added only for rkl since previously all cores share the same pll and not very meaningful to cap by specific core since at any tine they can only be same freq


Perfect. This is what I was curious about. So when I put in a RKL cpu it should be available. Thank you very much!


----------



## cstkl1

edit he answered.. so kindda nuts for me to..

so nobody with F1 2020??

hedt had individual control of voltage since FIVR.


----------



## Astral85

Talon2016 said:


> The more I use RKL and get it tuned up I love it. RKL loves tuned memory for huge gains in performance. I don't miss my 10900K one bit, the loss of 2 cores is easily made up for with the additional IPC and it's no competition in gaming or single core tasks. Not to mention Skylake is a very well tuned, updated, ancient arch. Rocket Lake has barely been given a chance.


11700K or 11900K?


----------



## Astral85

I've brought the Maximus XIII hero and a 10900K (coming from Z390/8700K). I've been following the thread and not yet opened my 10900K retail box. I'm still not convinced to return the 10900K for a 11700K or 11900K but it is starting to look more promising. What are you guys thoughts?


----------



## Brainlet

Please post IMLC bench and screenshot of timings as well.
Intel Memory Latency Checker
Download Link
Extract twice (with 7z or similar), open CMD as admin, navigate to the folder and type mlc.exe (CMD doesn't close after completion this way).


----------



## YaqY

5.3/4.9 10700K with 4500C16 Dual Rank Bdie For Comparison.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> View attachment 2483867
> 
> 5.3/4.9 10700K with 4500C16 Dual Rank Bdie For Comparison.


i think there is a bug in TS.. 

if u look at previous gen 9900k on older version of TS..they were scoring higher the physics same clock as 10700k.

something changed...


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> I've brought the Maximus XIII hero and a 10900K (coming from Z390/8700K). I've been following the thread and not yet opened my 10900K retail box. I'm still not convinced to return the 10900K for a 11700K or 11900K but it is starting to look more promising. What are you guys thoughts?


told ya bro.. stability
thats the biggest contributing factor compared to a well tune 10900k.
thats all.

and if u like ram overclocking.. its fun.

the architecture is so stable.. that u can actually oc this and bring this to compete in cash/prize lan gaming session. 
You can have complete trust on this cpu.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> i think there is a bug in TS..
> 
> if u look at previous gen 9900k on older version of TS..they were scoring higher the physics same clock as 10700k.
> 
> something changed...


I have seen 9900k results score better than my 10700k, even if i have faster ram because dual rank and at same clocks, i assumed it was maybe some sort of spectre patch or something but never really knew. Mates 53/49 9900K with 4600C17 single rank ram on XI Apex scores about 14200, even if slower in games like SOTTR for example.


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> told ya bro.. stability
> thats the biggest contributing factor compared to a well tune 10900k.
> thats all.
> 
> and if u like ram overclocking.. its fun.
> 
> the architecture is so stable.. that u can actually oc this and bring this to compete in cash/prize lan gaming session.
> You can have complete trust on this cpu.


I'm just worried that no one has delidded RKL successfully yet... Der8auer mentioned some resistors that could be a problem when popping/sliding the IHS off...


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> I'm just worried that no one has delidded RKL successfully yet... Der8auer mentioned some resistors that could be a problem when popping/sliding the IHS off...


Is a Delid really necessary? The die is so large that a 360mm aio or a custom loop should handle the cpu just fine.


----------



## Astral85

YaqY said:


> Is a Delid really necessary? The die is so large that a 360mm aio or a custom loop should handle the cpu just fine.


I don't know, no one has posted any temp data yet that I'm aware of.


----------



## Falkentyne

shamino1978 said:


> It is added only for rkl since previously all cores share the same pll and not very meaningful to cap by specific core since at any tine they can only be same freq


Welp there goes my fun 
Was hoping to surprise people. But I guess since 11700k is out everyone knows...


----------



## Talon2016

Astral85 said:


> 11700K or 11900K?


11700K, but grabbing 11900K on 30th from Microcenter.


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> Is a Delid really necessary? The die is so large that a 360mm aio or a custom loop should handle the cpu just fine.


5ghz all core 11700k. 1.28v
360 aio








Delidding mainstream cpu's allways helps. My plan is to delid 11900k when it's here.


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> post bro. no problem.
> 
> @Nizzen
> nice scores bro
> 
> @weleh
> 10700k needs like 5.4ghz for 14k on ts physics score.


I have already sent Nizzen the scores in private messages but okai, can share them here also:

8 core zen3 scores in cinebench (5950x with 1 CCD disabled)








all 16 cores in Cinebench score:








8 cores in SotTR








all 16cores in SotTR scores:








Cant remember if i used 8 or 16 cores in this farcry bench:








8 cores in Zero Dawn
50% res scale 








8 cores in Zero Dawn
100% res scale


----------



## Astral85

Nizzen said:


> 5ghz all core 11700k. 1.28v
> 360 aio
> View attachment 2483873
> 
> Delidding mainstream cpu's allways helps. My plan is to delid 11900k when it's here.


Those are very good temps for stock paste. Are these soldered? Can you get that 11700K past 5Ghz?


----------



## Astral85

Why does the 11700K top out at 5.0Ghz? Is it so they can sell the 11900K with a better bin? The previous 10700K max turbo is 5.1Ghz.


----------



## Talon2016

Astral85 said:


> Why does the 11700K top out at 5.0Ghz? Is it so they can sell the 11900K with a better bin? The previous 10700K max turbo is 5.1Ghz.


Max turbo is largely useless since it's a single core. I can run my kinda crap 11700K at 5.2Ghz on a single core. 51x runs on all cores but with 1.5v LLC6. I run varied multis based on core usage. Comparing a 10700K vs 11700K based on clocks alone is not useful either since the 11700K will clobber the 10th gen part. 

And not all silicon is created equally, they need to bin parts and the best chips are going to the 11900K with the rest going down the product stack. AMD does the same thing and all gens have been this way since forever. GPUs too.


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> Why does the 11700K top out at 5.0Ghz? Is it so they can sell the 11900K with a better bin? The previous 10700K max turbo is 5.1Ghz.


Not ideal to compare a 10700k and 11700k sku, the 10700K is the main 8 core cometlake cpu, there is no downbin of this cpu like the 10850K so it can potentially still have a strong core but have disabled cores if a core or two didn't make it for 10900K silicon or they were defective. On rocketlake the 11900K is evidently the higher binned 8 core, so it should be expected to clock higher than the 11700K on average. By the looks of it, it seems unlikely to see 11900k at 5.4 daily or so like we have on some stronger 10900K samples likely due to the changes to the cores from 10th-11th gen.


----------



## roooo

Talon2016 said:


> I doubt this is newer than the 0610 I am running. Maybe it is though since mine is likely a beta. Anyone know?


Hehe good point and you may be right...just checked and the CAP file inside the ZIP dates 11 March 3:30 pm. Is this a pity? 

Please check and report your BIOS file date!


----------



## Astral85

Talon2016 said:


> Max turbo is largely useless since it's a single core. I can run my kinda crap 11700K at 5.2Ghz on a single core. 51x runs on all cores but with 1.5v LLC6. I run varied multis based on core usage. Comparing a 10700K vs 11700K based on clocks alone is not useful either since the 11700K will clobber the 10th gen part.
> 
> And not all silicon is created equally, they need to bin parts and the best chips are going to the 11900K with the rest going down the product stack. AMD does the same thing and all gens have been this way since forever. GPUs too.


5.1 all core @ 1.5V is that bad SL or what we're seeing with the 11700K?


----------



## Astral85

YaqY said:


> Not ideal to compare a 10700k and 11700k sku, the 10700K is the main 8 core cometlake cpu, there is no downbin of this cpu like the 10850K so it can potentially still have a strong core but have disabled cores if a core or two didn't make it for 10900K silicon or they were defective. On rocketlake the 11900K is evidently the higher binned 8 core, so it should be expected to clock higher than the 11700K on average. By the looks of it, it seems unlikely to see 11900k at 5.4 daily or so like we have on some stronger 10900K samples likely due to the changes to the cores from 10th-11th gen.


Do you think the 11700K has purposely been down binned?


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> Do you think the 11700K has purposely been down binned?


Well it is just likely poorer silicon that doesn't meet 11900K turbo figures, unless there is something else different between the chips that i am not aware of.


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> I have already sent Nizzen the scores in private messages but okai, can share them here also:
> 
> 8 core zen3 scores in cinebench (5950x with 1 CCD disabled)
> View attachment 2483875
> 
> all 16 cores in Cinebench score:
> View attachment 2483877
> 
> 
> 8 cores in SotTR
> View attachment 2483876
> 
> 
> all 16cores in SotTR scores:
> View attachment 2483878
> 
> 
> Cant remember if i used 8 or 16 cores in this farcry bench:
> View attachment 2483879
> 
> 
> 8 cores in Zero Dawn
> 50% res scale
> View attachment 2483880
> 
> 
> 8 cores in Zero Dawn
> 100% res scale
> View attachment 2483881


nice but think you wont like whats coming on 30th for oc result for r20/23. 

nice single threaded score though.


----------



## Astral85

YaqY said:


> Well it is just likely poorer silicon that doesn't meet 11900K turbo figures, unless there is something else different between the chips that i am not aware of.


TVB? 11700K doesn't have Thermal Velocity Boost.


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> TVB? 11700K doesn't have Thermal Velocity Boost.


it doesnt have ATB


----------



## cstkl1

hmm i think ppl should start actually examining v/f vid of cml / rkl etc. 

theres a clear diff. 

lets start with cml

what does v:f tells u. at what point with which LL can u use the v/f with cpu voltage auto to get the best vmin on load??

the man spend so much time on this. 
z590 apex and extreme has a feature that extends this understanding. it will be a pity if ppl dont evolv in their understanding of vid request etc. 

its really interesting.

just stating 1.5v LL6?? err vmin dude state the vmin.


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> it doesnt have ATB


I meant the 11900K has TVB, the 11700K doesn't...


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> I meant the 11900K has TVB, the 11700K doesn't...


thats just just a form of oc bro with temp conditions

@Nizzen just did "tvb" type manipulation on two preferred core boosting etc

ATB keeps the cpu boosted 5.1 all core.


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> hmm i think ppl should start actually examining v/f vid of cml / rkl etc.
> 
> theres a clear diff.
> 
> lets start with cml
> 
> what does v:f tells u. at what point with which LL can u use the v/f with cpu voltage auto to get the best vmin on load??
> 
> the man spend so much time on this.
> z590 apex and extreme has a feature that extends this understanding. it will be a pity if ppl dont evolv in their understanding of vid request etc.
> 
> its really interesting.
> 
> just stating 1.5v LL6?? err vmin dude state the vmin.


Can you explain this in more simple terms? ATB? Not even google recognizes that.


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> Can you explain this in more simple terms?


lets start with 10900k

whats your 5.1ghz vid. see the v/f in your bios.

edit. sorry u were talking about atb.


----------



## fray_bentos

Astral85 said:


> Can you explain this in more simple terms? ATB? Not even google recognizes that.











Intel introduces Adaptive Boost Technology for 11th Gen Core i9 Series - VideoCardz.com


Intel Adaptive Boost for Rocket Lake-S Another Intel launch another boost technology. The 11th Gen Core series codenamed “Rocket Lake-S” will feature a new technology called Adaptive Boost, HardwareLuxx reports. This is a new clock adjusting technique that will be available only with certain...




videocardz.com


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> lets start with 10900k
> 
> whats your 5.1ghz vid. see the v/f in your bios.


I'm still on my 8700K build. Have 10900K, just waiting for further RKL results...


----------



## Talon2016

roooo said:


> Hehe good point and you may be right...just checked and the CAP file inside the ZIP dates 11 March 3:30 pm. Is this a pity?
> 
> Please check and report your BIOS file date!


3/16/21 0952am.


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> I'm still on my 8700K build. Have 10900K, just waiting for further RKL results...


well plug it in. time for you to learn
@shamino1978 effort for mankind. 
lol. 

its a interesting thing asus has given us in z490 etc.


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> well plug it in. time for you to learn
> @shamino1978 effort for mankind.
> lol.
> 
> its a interesting thing asus has given us in z490 etc.


Can you tell us anymore without doing the plugging in yet?


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> Can you tell us anymore without doing the plugging in yet?


you got to see it for youself. test for youself to appreciate something .


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> you got to see it for youself. test for youself to appreciate something .


Don't think I'm plugging anything in until I've seen the final RKL results on 30th.


----------



## MoeBen

Waiting on some new toys will post some benchs soon .... I am now officially retiring my 5900X build


----------



## Astral85

MoeBen said:


> Waiting on some new toys will post some benchs soon .... I am now officially retiring my 5900X build


Suspect something like a 11900K?


----------



## MoeBen

2 11900K Pre Ordered Optimus Water Block, and I'm debating on EK/Intel Cryo Cooler and maybe some extreme ram


----------



## MoeBen

Oh, and I will be shipping the dead 11700K to rockitcool, so they can develop a delid tool for RL i think the direct die frame was too high to make good contact


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> 2 11900K Pre Ordered Optimus Water Block, and I'm debating on EK/Intel Cryo Cooler and maybe some extreme ram


no point that cryo cooler.
sustain gaming load.. it will be worse off normal aio.

need to triple that EK tec to 400w but i doubt at this point u can control dew point etc... 
so might as well go chilled water etc...


----------



## Astral85

MoeBen said:


> Oh, and I will be shipping the dead 11700K to rockitcool, so they can develop a delid tool for RL i think the direct die frame was too high to make good contact


Der8uer mentioned some new resistors or caps on the RKL PCB when he examined your images. I wonder if you scraped these caps when you popped/slid the IHS off? What delid tool did you use?


----------



## Groove2013

Possibility to OC each core independently is very nice, so you don't have to keep all cores at the frequency of the worst core of all cores.

Still wondering what will be possible as max RAM frequency in 1:1 on Maximus XIII Hero or Apex (Z590) using an 11900K...

Hope to see custom IHS for 11900K from @bartx for a perfectly flat IHS without sanding down the original one with all the CPU info on it.


----------



## roooo

Talon2016 said:


> 3/16/21 0952am.


May I ask where you got your BIOS from?


----------



## shamino1978

Z490 bioses, fixed vf and other bugs








ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-0098.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0098.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





z590 bioses








ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0703.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0703.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0703.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0703.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## FlanK3r

Groove2013 said:


> Possibility to OC each core independently is very nice, so you don't have to keep all cores at the frequency of the worst core of all cores.
> 
> Still wondering what will be possible as max RAM frequency in 1:1 on Maximus XIII Hero or Apex (Z590) using an 11900K...
> 
> Hope to see custom IHS for 11900K from @bartx for a perfectly flat IHS without sanding down the original one with all the CPU info on it.


It is +- same in 1:1. Around 3733 MHz (a little tweak by BCLK) As I said before, it is more similar like Zen2 than Zen3. But with 1:2 and very high memory speeds you cna get similar results like with 3733 MHz cl14 example. (And also the same true is it for Zen2)


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Possibility to OC each core independently is very nice!
> 
> Still wondering what will be possible as max RAM frequency in 1:1 on Maximus XIII Hero or Apex (Z590) using an 11900K...


3733. no bclk tweak needed. 3866. 
ppl are still trying to be "zen"

forget this guys. go high.


----------



## cstkl1

FlanK3r said:


> It is +- same in 1:1. Around 3733 MHz (a little tweak by BCLK) As I said before, it is more similar like Zen2 than Zen3. But with 1:2 and very high memory speeds you cna get similar results like with 3733 MHz cl14 example. (And also the same true is it for Zen2)


3866 is not difficult
alot of ppl are setting their timings wrong. 

but dont chase after this. go high. 1:2..


----------



## Groove2013

I have here 2x16 GB Trident Z Neo 3800 14-16-16 1.5 V XMP.
Don't know how high it will be possible to push them safely on air for 24/7 and with what timings +-.
Otherwise I will have to go for 3866.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> I have here 2x16 GB Trident Z Neo 3800 14-16-16 1.5 V XMP.
> Don't know how high it will be possible to push them safely on air for 24/7 and with what timings +-.
> Otherwise I will have to go for 3866.


nice sticks.
4533c17? @1.5??
4600c18? @1.5??

dr bdie do get hot. 
so wc needed or some delta fans.. lol for higher.


----------



## Groove2013

I have 1x140 mm fan in the top of the case blowing air down/inside, directly onto the RAM sticks.

Don't know if they will be able to do 4533-4600 MHz 1:2 and if so, would the increased bandwidth (worse latency but lower SA/IO) provide same or better performance than 3866 MHz 1:1 with lower latency and higher SA/IO.

Is Apex worth the extra $$$ over Hero for 2 RAM slots and shorter distance to CPU?
Slightly lower timings than on Hero or same but slightly lower SA/IO thanks to less slots/shorter distance to the CPU?

I think I've read somewhere that there is atleast 1 additional/new voltage for RAM with Rocket Lake? RAM LLC?

What max SA/IO voltages are safe for 24/7?

I don't care about M.2 PCI-E 4.0, since I'm using PCI-E 3.0 Intel Optane 900P.


----------



## Astral85

Don't think you ever want to go over 1.3V on SA/IO @Groove2013. 1.2 - 1.25V is fine from what I understand.


----------



## FlanK3r

cstkl1 said:


> 3866 is not difficult
> alot of ppl are setting their timings wrong.
> 
> but dont chase after this. go high. 1:2..


show me your proof (CPUZ+MEM test) u have 3866 MHZ 1:1 on Rocket...


----------



## roooo

shamino1978 said:


> Z490 bioses, fixed vf and other bugs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-0098.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0098.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> z590 bioses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thanks - much appreciated!


----------



## cstkl1

FlanK3r said:


> show me your proof (CPUZ+MEM test) u have 3866 MHZ 1:1 on Rocket...




i tested this thoroughly.. waste of time.. go high 1:2


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> Don't think you ever want to go over 1.3V on SA/IO @Groove2013. 1.2 - 1.25V is fine from what I understand.


We used 1.5v+ SA for years now with 8700k/80806/9900k/9900ks/10900k, so.... 

On Rocketlake 1.3v-1,35v SA is enough for 4800c17 b-die  Same on 10900k was 1,5-1.6SA


----------



## aznguyen316

Thanks @shamino1978 for the 0703 BIOS. Very pleased that the Z590-E Strix have been included in these BIOS updates along with the Maximus line. I had both a Z490 M12H and got a nice deal on the Z590-E and I decided to keep the Z590-E strix and sell to my brother the M12H since he doesn't want to upgrade to 11th gen anyway. Both mobo seemed very similar in components and features.


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> We used 1.5v+ SA for years now with 8700k/80806/9900k/9900ks/10900k, so....
> 
> On Rocketlake 1.3v-1,35v SA is enough for 4800c17 b-die  Same on 10900k was 1,5-1.6SA


The sort of people who use such (1.4 V+) voltages are the sort of people who change their CPU every year.


----------



## FlanK3r

@cstkl1 propably golden IMC sample ...I can not over 3733 and believe, Im not newbie


----------



## cstkl1

FlanK3r said:


> @cstkl1 propably golden IMC sample ...I can not over 3733 and believe, Im not newbie


i know your are not dude.

its not golden. ..afaik few ppl has no issue with it

but nobody is bothered about it bro. cause its not worth it.. when i was harping on it ( i was late in da game.. ppl already moved past this)
which is why i said i should have listened to HIM from the start. wasted time, electricity, brain power

say for fae or ocer to spend time on this

1:1 we know the end game. death of the cpu. ( i am just guessing with the way its scaling on sa/mc io)

1:2 we are now seeing what DDR4 can really do. No iol or pesky rtl. just base mathematics on timings and voltages and hopefully with decent
rams and bios getting better and better... Intel on this has better turnarounds and on bandwidth it surpasses CML .. flaw is just latency

so spend time on 1:2 right??


----------



## menko2

Another bios for Hero XIII today. This time beta bios.


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> Is Apex worth the extra $$$ over Hero for 2 RAM slots and shorter distance to CPU?
> Slightly lower timings than on Hero or same but slightly lower SA/IO thanks to less slots/shorter distance to the CPU?


When you are into memory OC and have several high binned DIMM Kits it is worth it.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> When you are into memory OC and have several high binned DIMM Kits it is worth it.


and then ppl start binning apex...

omg.. lol..


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> and then ppl start binning apex...
> 
> omg.. lol..


Before we do that I suggest someone starts binning MS Windows first.... ;-)


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> i tested this thoroughly.. waste of time.. go high 1:2


Sa -? 
Io - ?


----------



## fourthavenue

shamino1978 said:


> Z490 bioses, fixed vf and other bugs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-0098.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0098.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> z590 bioses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0703.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Hello, 
When would Z590 Apex be available on the market?
Thanks!


----------



## Falkentyne

2500k_2 said:


> Sa -?
> Io - ?


NDA, dude!


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> 1:2 we are now seeing what DDR4 can really do. No iol or pesky rtl. just base mathematics on timings and voltages and hopefully with decent
> rams and bios getting better and better... Intel on this has better turnarounds and on bandwidth it surpasses CML .. flaw is just latency
> 
> so spend time on 1:2 right??


RTL and IOL tweaking is gone? That's a huge negative, the whole point is to give the memory controller breathing room for higher frequencies


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> RTL and IOL tweaking is gone? That's a huge negative, the whole point is to give the memory controller breathing room for higher frequencies


no. thats a positive. rtl is there. no iol. rtl cannot be entered manually.


----------



## MoeBen

Astral85 said:


> Der8uer mentioned some new resistors or caps on the RKL PCB when he examined your images. I wonder if you scraped these caps when you popped/slid the IHS off? What delid tool did you use?


I used 8700k tool and no cap was damaged


----------



## MoeBen




----------



## MoeBen

getting there =)


----------



## roooo

Nice. The top of the case slightly bends under the load of the rad... ;-)


----------



## MoeBen

roooo said:


> Nice. The top of the case slightly bends under the load of the rad... ;-)


it does that rad is thiccc boy lol


----------



## MoeBen

@Shamino any bios update ... is 0703 the latest ?


----------



## Astral85

MoeBen said:


> View attachment 2483938


No issues fitting the Optimus to the XIII Hero?


----------



## MoeBen

Astral85 said:


> No issues fitting the Optimus to the XIII Hero?


Nope !


----------



## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> @Shamino any bios update ... is 0703 the latest ?


703 just came out two days ago....


----------



## MoeBen

Falkentyne said:


> 703 just came out two days ago....


Yes I know I was wondering if the version shamino posted were actually more recent


----------



## Astral85

Just inspected mine, looks to be in perfect physical condition.


----------



## Falkentyne

MoeBen said:


> Yes I know I was wondering if the version shamino posted were actually more recent


You sure you aren't getting confused with the Z490 bios?


----------



## MoeBen

No no he posted z590 too


----------



## roooo

MoeBen said:


> it does that rad is thiccc boy lol


Had to mount mine at the front because I use push/pull, which is getting a bit tight at the top. Anyway, I like their cases.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

Astral85 said:


> Just inspected mine, looks to be in perfect physical condition.
> 
> View attachment 2483961












Mine too .. Im getting excited now


----------



## Astral85

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Mine too .. Im getting excited now


Like the color scheme on that.


----------



## IronAge

We want Apex XIII.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

Astral85 said:


> Like the color scheme on that.


Yours too


----------



## cstkl1

thread like asus exclusive..

nobody bought giga/msi etc??

asrock??


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> thread like asus exclusive..
> 
> nobody bought giga/msi etc??
> 
> asrock??


Asus best BIOS and software.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> thread like asus exclusive..
> 
> nobody bought giga/msi etc??
> 
> asrock??


I have msi z490 unify itx that I maybe will try later in Easter. Now ; vaccation in the "cabin" in the montains. Skiing most of the days 
What's the point with the second best, when you can use the best? Asus Extreme/Apex 🤓


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> I have msi z490 unify itx that I maybe will try later in Easter. Now ; vaccation in the "cabin" in the montains. Skiing most of the days


eh the answer to covid is to go skiing where nobody arnd bro ?? 

i really really hope theres good b560.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> eh the answer to covid is to go skiing where nobody arnd bro ??
> 
> i really really hope theres good b560.



















Love from Norway


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> thread like asus exclusive..
> 
> nobody bought giga/msi etc??
> 
> asrock??


I've been using Asus boards a while now but I really liked the look of the EVGA Dark ZX590's, they look awesome.









EVGA - Articles - EVGA Z590


EVGA Z590 motherboards paired with 11th Gen Intel® Core™ processors bring unprecedented speed and bandwidth to the latest graphics cards and M.2 NVMe SSDs, along with improved performance across the board.




www.evga.com


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2484027
> 
> View attachment 2484026
> 
> Love from Norway


I'm a bit jealous! Enjoy!!!


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> I've been using Asus boards a while now but I really liked the look of the EVGA Dark ZX590's, they look awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVGA - Articles - EVGA Z590
> 
> 
> EVGA Z590 motherboards paired with 11th Gen Intel® Core™ processors bring unprecedented speed and bandwidth to the latest graphics cards and M.2 NVMe SSDs, along with improved performance across the board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.evga.com


Don't get a Dark, they don't even have die sense vcore monitoring, lack many features that Asus exposes in bios.


----------



## Groove2013

Astral85 said:


> I've been using Asus boards a while now but I really liked the look of the EVGA Dark ZX590's, they look awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVGA - Articles - EVGA Z590
> 
> 
> EVGA Z590 motherboards paired with 11th Gen Intel® Core™ processors bring unprecedented speed and bandwidth to the latest graphics cards and M.2 NVMe SSDs, along with improved performance across the board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.evga.com


The nicest looking boards with best possible hardware are useless, when software is not at the level it should/could be.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> eh the answer to covid is to go skiing where nobody arnd bro ??
> 
> i really really hope theres good b560.


Could you check the m.2. latency difference with plugin the ssd into a m.2 pcie 4 port straight to the CPU without having to pass through the chipset?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Could you check the m.2. latency difference with plugin the ssd into a m.2 pcie 4 port straight to the CPU without having to pass through the chipset?


u mean put a gen 3 nvme and test cpu vs dmi?? of course cpu better bro. 
but its marginal. its not gonna make any diff. just that cpu dedicated one doesnt share its bandwidth.


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> The nicest looking boards with best possible hardware are useless, when software is not at the level it should/could be.











Z590 AORUS TACHYON (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com





This one really looks nice as well, DIMM Slots very close to the Socket, there should be very low ripple/noise.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> u mean put a gen 3 nvme and test cpu vs dmi?? of course cpu better bro.
> but its marginal. its not gonna make any diff. just that cpu dedicated one doesnt share its bandwidth.


Yes i always wonder how much penalty will get the ssd when they go through the chipset. As soon I mount the 11900k will test the 905p optane i have.


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> Yes i always wonder how much penalty will get the ssd when they go through the chipset. As soon I mount the 11900k will test the 905p optane i have.


I got 305MB/s 4k random read qd=1 with 900p 480GB. With 11700k on Apex z490. Slot #2 right beside gpu.


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> I got 305MB/s 4k random read qd=1 with 900p 480GB. With 11700k on Apex z490. Slot #2 right beside gpu.


I get 249MB/s with the 950p 980GB and 10900k in the Maximus Hero XIII so it's a little jump. 

Definitely the latency will be better as well.

I'll test it and compare when 11900k arrives.

Pd. Nizzen you have a private from me.


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2484027
> 
> View attachment 2484026
> 
> Love from Norway


It's good to live in Norway.
Opened the window - got 5.6 GHz on an air cooler


----------



## Ex0duS5150

2500k_2 said:


> It's good to live in Norway.
> Opened the window - got 5.6 GHz on an air cooler


LOL! Can't argue that I guess.


----------



## roooo

menko2 said:


> I get 249MB/s with the 950p 980GB and 10900k in the Maximus Hero XIII so it's a little jump.


249MB/s appear pretty low, I hope it's not the board because I ordered that one, too.
Just for comparison, these are 4k random read QD1 with 10900k on Z490 Formula:

900p 280GB on PCIe X8: 317MB/s
905p 380GB on M2_1: 305MB/s

The 905p is spec'ed a little faster than the 900p in sequential transfers, so I doubt there is a significant gain over the 900p in random r/w. So it looks like direct CPU will get you an additional 10..20MB/s in small random r/w at low QD, which you won't notice.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

ASUS gang..


----------



## menko2

roooo said:


> 249MB/s appear pretty low, I hope it's not the board because I ordered that one, too.
> Just for comparison, these are 4k random read QD1 with 10900k on Z490 Formula:
> 
> 900p 280GB on PCIe X8: 317MB/s
> 905p 380GB on M2_1: 305MB/s


I hope it will be a bios or driver thing. Mine is a 905p 980GB in m.2. format.

We'll know soon.


----------



## roooo

menko2 said:


> I hope it will be a bios or driver thing. Mine is a 905p 980GB in m.2. format.


I do hope so, too.
Does the Z590 Hero have another M2 110mm slot you could try the 905p in? The Z490 Formula only has one slot of that size.


----------



## menko2

roooo said:


> I do hope so, too.
> Does the Z590 Hero have another M2 110mm slot you could try the 905p in? The Z490 Formula only has one slot of that size.


It does have it but I until I use the rocket lake we can't attach it. M_1 is reserved for 4xpcie 4 lines direct to the CPU.


----------



## bastian




----------



## Electrosoft

Ex0duS5150 said:


> ASUS gang..


I am contemplating both of these as they hit nice low and medium price points in the Asus lineup with three full length slots and the ASUS BIOS. I was leaning towards the Prime as it is sub $300 USD.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> thread like asus exclusive..
> 
> nobody bought giga/msi etc??
> 
> asrock??


The stores in Norway have a 20% discount on ASUS boards when purchased with an 11th gen CPU.

I would end up paying more for a Z590 Ace or Taichi, and I'm not going to consider Gigabutt so soon after the ****show that was the Z390 Aorus Master
The Apex XIII and Unify is set to arrive in early May, so those aren't an option either.


----------



## munternet

Electrosoft said:


> I am contemplating both of these as they hit nice low and medium price points in the Asus lineup with three full length slots and the ASUS BIOS. I was leaning towards the Prime as it is sub $300 USD.


Looks like the strix audio is better


----------



## BURGER4life

MoeBen said:


> View attachment 2483938











Same case & mobo🔥


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> Z590 AORUS TACHYON (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
> 
> 
> Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gigabyte.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one really looks nice as well, DIMM Slots very close to the Socket, there should be very low ripple/noise.


Horrible and BIOS not on same level as Asus.
PCI-E slots placement...


----------



## Clausewitz

Have any of you tried RKL on a Z490 board that supports PCIE4.0? I have a Z490 MSI Gaming Edge WIFI. I am curious to know how good the support for PCIE4.0 is on a Z490 board.

I've read mixed things, like there only being enough lanes for either a GPU or single m.2 to run at PCIE4.0

Confirmed support: MSI Z490 motherboards will be PCIe 4.0 compatible with a new BIOS update


----------



## Groove2013

@Clausewitz in the manual of your Z490 Gaming Edge Wi-Fi you can see that both M.2 slots come from the chipset that supports only PCI-E 3.0.
So if you buy a 11th gen CPU, only both PCI-E 16x slots will give you PCI-E 4.0.
If you want PCI-E 4.0 for a M.2 SSD, you will have to buy a PCI-E card where you can install PCI-E 4.0 M.2 SSD and install such a card in the 2nd PCI-E 16x slot, taking away 8 of 16 lanes from the GPU.

When it's said that the motherboard supports PCI-E 4.0, it doesn't automatically mean that it applies to M.2 SSD as well, additionally to the GPU.

But nobody will tell you this, since it's marketing - all our motherboards support PCI-E 4.0, without any further details.


----------



## aznguyen316

bastian said:


>


is this one of those cases of $1000+ USD on CPU and mobo with $30 cooler Lolol


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> is this one of those cases of $1000+ USD on CPU and mobo with $30 cooler Lolol


the guy running alot of background stuff based on r20 single score.

oh you didnt u see his vid before. it was fluke he got it early. he building a full wc hence y the temp cheaper cooler.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> It does have it but I until I use the rocket lake we can't attach it. M_1 is reserved for 4xpcie 4 lines direct to the CPU.
> View attachment 2484065


you be suprise how many ppl dont read the first few pages of motherboard manuals. 

and then come to forums etc and complain. 
rog forum crazy full of these guys.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> 10700k needs like 5.4ghz for 14k on ts physics score.


True
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-10700K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z490 UNIFY (MS-7C71) (3dmark.com)

I'm looking through the past few pages of this thread to find all the DJR kits you linked.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> True
> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-10700K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z490 UNIFY (MS-7C71) (3dmark.com)
> 
> I'm looking through the past few pages of this thread to find all the DJR kits you linked.


go DR djr if u want daily

4800c19/18

Kingston HyperX Predator 3600c17
Adata XPG gammix s50 ( sometimes it bdie)
Klevv Bolt XR

5066c19/5200c20
Klevv Bolt XR

Klevv recommend change the heatsink/pads etc.
Recommend
1.6-1.7v daily on DR
1.7-1.8 daily on SR

SR sticks so far Klevvs i had no luck. 5200/[email protected] @1.7/1.8
not stable

DJR are very finicking with trfc. the good ones always has low trfc.

Diff between good and bad djr is wide. like 0.2-0.3v wide.

heatsink
byksi/freezemod i dont recommend. they are just short on contact with ic

barrows are good stuff

SR make sure to have thick pads back of the ic. that will increase the thermal transfer to the heatsink so fan can cool it.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## Satanello

@*cstkl1 *Atm I've not planned to upgrade to 11 gen (I have 2x 10700k and 1x 10850k) but I found 2x16Gb " Kingston HyperX Predator 3600c17'' HX436C17PB3K2/32 kit at very good price; someone tested this memory kit ? I can't find any good review with IC confirmation.
Found this review 2x8Gb kit with CJR ICs and this review of the RGB kit with B-die ICs
Another review of the 64Gb kit (4x16Gb) with CJR ICs


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> go DR djr if u want daily
> 
> 4800c19/18
> 
> Kingston HyperX Predator 3600c17
> Adata XPG gammix s50 ( sometimes it bdie)
> Klevv Bolt XR
> 
> 5066c19/5200c20
> Klevv Bolt XR
> 
> Klevv recommend change the heatsink/pads etc.
> Recommend
> 1.6-1.7v daily on DR
> 1.7-1.8 daily on SR
> 
> SR sticks so far Klevvs i had no luck. 5200/[email protected] @1.7/1.8
> not stable
> 
> DJR are very finicking with trfc. the good ones always has low trfc.
> 
> Diff between good and bad djr is wide. like 0.2-0.3v wide.
> 
> heatsink
> byksi/freezemod i dont recommend. they are just short on contact with ic
> 
> barrows are good stuff
> 
> SR make sure to have thick pads back of the ic. that will increase the thermal transfer to the heatsink so fan can cool it.


This?









HyperX Predator - DDR4 - sett - 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB - DIMM 288-pin - 3600 MHz / PC4-28800 - CL17 - 1.35 V - ikke-bufret - ikke-ECC - svart


Produktbeskrivelse er ikke tilgjengelig.




www.computersalg.no


----------



## menko2

It seems that 30th also we will be receiving the bios and Vbios for BAR as well.

I hope they are included in the bios for rocket lake launch.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> This?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HyperX Predator - DDR4 - sett - 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB - DIMM 288-pin - 3600 MHz / PC4-28800 - CL17 - 1.35 V - ikke-bufret - ikke-ECC - svart
> 
> 
> Produktbeskrivelse er ikke tilgjengelig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.computersalg.no





Satanello said:


> @*cstkl1 *Atm I've not planned to upgrade to 11 gen (I have 2x 10700k and 1x 10850k) but I found 2x16Gb " Kingston HyperX Predator 3600c17'' HX436C17PB3K2/32 kit at very good price; someone tested this memory kit ? I can't find any good review with IC confirmation.
> Found this review 2x8Gb kit with CJR ICs and this review of the RGB kit with B-die ICs
> Another review of the 64Gb kit (4x16Gb) with CJR ICs


i got one it does [email protected]
couldnt go higher.
klevvs were much better able to do 4800c18, 5k,

cml cannot drive djr bro or even any bdies unless u found a golden one. the sa/io requirement..

see clockemup vid.. think he is pumping 1.6v on sa with z590/10900k


----------



## BubiSlav

I hope this is the right place. I'm looking to get a recommendation from you guys who obviously know a lot more than me. I'm having a difficult time choosing between the 10900k and the 11900k. All I care about is gaming in [email protected] Been planning to upgrade from a 6700k since before comet lake released and my original plan was that rocket lake would be the last and greatest of intel's 14nm and would serve me well for a few years while all the new technology on alder lake matured and got cheaper. But then benchmarks started being released from 11th gen and it seems a tad underwhelming. Can a bios update save it? If 10th gen had pcie 4 I'd definitely go for that but it doesn't and so I'm very torn on which to go for. I have everything else purchased, including asus z590-e mobo, only waiting on my cpu. What would you guys get in my position?


----------



## cstkl1

BubiSlav said:


> I hope this is the right place. I'm looking to get a recommendation from you guys who obviously know a lot more than me. I'm having a difficult time choosing between the 10900k and the 11900k. All I care about is gaming in [email protected] Been planning to upgrade from a 6700k since before comet lake released and my original plan was that rocket lake would be the last and greatest of intel's 14nm and would serve me well for a few years while all the new technology on alder lake matured and got cheaper. But then benchmarks started being released from 11th gen and it seems a tad underwhelming. Can a bios update save it? If 10th gen had pcie 4 I'd definitely go for that but it doesn't and so I'm very torn on which to go for. I have everything else purchased, including asus z590-e mobo, only waiting on my cpu. What would you guys get in my position?


go 11900k and get some decent rams. 

👍🏼


----------



## MoeBen

BURGER4life said:


> View attachment 2484090
> 
> Same case & mobo🔥


Fractal is the Shi* Looking great i went back to 5900x and did Metal tubing ill post a pic


----------



## BubiSlav

cstkl1 said:


> go 11900k and get some decent rams.
> 
> 👍🏼


Is 3600mhz cl18 decent enough? Bought a 32GB set about a year ago for a good enough price.


----------



## Astral85

menko2 said:


> It seems that 30th also we will be receiving the bios and Vbios for BAR as well.
> 
> I hope they are included in the bios for rocket lake launch.


Resizable BAR is only for 11th gen correct?


----------



## menko2

Astral85 said:


> Resizable BAR is only for 11th gen correct?


It will be also for 10th gen too.

Z490 and some z390 boards will get it as well.


----------



## MoeBen




----------



## Arni90

Groove2013 said:


> Horrible and BIOS not on same level as Asus.
> PCI-E slots placement...


The Gigabye Tachyon actually has quite good PCIe slot placement in my opinion:
First slot is x4 from chipset
Second slot is x16 from CPU
Third slot is x8 from CPU, and if used will turn second slot to x8 as well
Fourth slot is x1

If you want to run an x4 expansion card, you can do so without impacting cooling on the GPU.
If you want to run 3090 SLI, the spacing is correct for the SLI bridge.

Now if only they could make a BIOS without stupid bugs...



Clausewitz said:


> Have any of you tried RKL on a Z490 board that supports PCIE4.0? I have a Z490 MSI Gaming Edge WIFI. I am curious to know how good the support for PCIE4.0 is on a Z490 board.


MSI placed PCIe-switches between the CPU socket and chipset for the first M.2 slot on their Z490 motherboards. If you plug in a Rocket Lake CPU you get PCIe 4.0 x4 from CPU on that slot, if you use Comet Lake it'll run at PCIe 3.0 x4 from the chipset


----------



## Ex0duS5150

MoeBen said:


> View attachment 2484197


Holy $h17 dude! nice rig... Impressive


----------



## MoeBen

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Holy $h17 dude! nice rig... Impressive


Ty not perfect yet but it will be soon


----------



## Ex0duS5150

This Forum has always been a good source of information from knowledgeable and well informed people with extensive experience and I'm glad to be apart of it.

Can't wait to OC my CPU to its thermal limits on my cooler and RAM to the silicons potential on this newer z590 platform. As you can see from my sig I am coming from an older rig. I have bills to pay as do we all and budget plays it's necessary part in my ultimate builds outcome. All I can say with you guys is, "I'm going to have some fun"!! 

*i7-11700K* and *F4-4000C18D-32GTZR *


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> This?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HyperX Predator - DDR4 - sett - 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB - DIMM 288-pin - 3600 MHz / PC4-28800 - CL17 - 1.35 V - ikke-bufret - ikke-ECC - svart
> 
> 
> Produktbeskrivelse er ikke tilgjengelig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.computersalg.no


These have Hynix CJR, i have a Kit incoming and i have already owned another one, got them cheap on Ebay for about ~130€.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> told ya bro.. stability
> thats the biggest contributing factor compared to a well tune 10900k.
> thats all.
> 
> and if u like ram overclocking.. its fun.
> 
> the architecture is so stable.. that u can actually oc this and bring this to compete in cash/prize lan gaming session.
> You can have complete trust on this cpu.


Apologies but I might have missed something, just wondering where is the information/facts/data about 11th gen being more stable/improved over the previous intel generations instability issues/whea errors as I'd like to learn more about it.

I may have the opportunity to pass down my 10850k to the wife and switch over to the 10/11900k. I greatly care about stability and gaming/fps performance at 1440p/4k it would also be nice if my IMC was stronger to support a better ram OC without high uncomfortable voltages. I guess it's impossible to know until further reviews come out of NDA on the 30th and the microcodes get updated.


----------



## cstkl1

pic of the kingston kit


Spoiler







Plug & Play


----------



## cstkl1

the kit hates c20. 
5kc19 booted but i didnt stress it . 
need to change heatsink


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> the kit hates c20.
> 5kc19 booted but i didnt stress it .
> need to change heatsink


Have you noticed large variation on the frequency dual rank DJR can do for you, i know dual rank bdie can be bitchy even above 4500 on some kits.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> Have you noticed large variation on the frequency dual rank DJR can do for you, i know dual rank bdie can be bitchy even above 4500 on some kits.


DR not as much as SR. 

SR are big bro. like 5333 vs [email protected]
on same latency. 

DR variance so far not sure i am lucky or
@shamino1978 magic drug induced bios.. all of the rams do 4800c19.

hence y my recommendation as sweet spot.

this kit apparent couldn't go higher than 4200 on zen

also from the cycle completion time.. u can tell i didnt skimp on timings. its tight.


----------



## YaqY

This is what i have seen on single rank DJR, couldn't post over 5600, on bdie 5000 was max for single rank.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> This is what i have seen on single rank DJR, couldn't post over 5600, on bdie 5000 was max for single rank.
> View attachment 2484207


those are bad timings. 
thats like my 5333/5400 c20 bandwidth.

30th asus should be surprising ppl on whats daily stable.

hold on ya. will do some SR. 
i dont have much luck on this but 5600 c22 @1.67 those are bad SR. 

they scale arnd 0.1v every cl between 19 to 22.. so that kit you posted arnd same as my bad SR.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> those are bad timings.
> thats like my 5333/5400 c20 bandwidth.
> 
> 30th asus should be surprising ppl on whats daily stable.
> 
> hold on ya. will do some SR.
> i dont have much luck on this but 5600 c22 @1.67 those are bad SR.
> 
> they scale arnd 0.1v every cl between 19 to 22.. so that kit you posted arnd same as my bad SR.


Yep, i think he was just benching for frequency, nothing for daily, anyways dual rank djr seems to be the way if it can clock 4800+ daily stable, i wonder how micron rev B dual rank does, it does nice tight tcl and good trcd with tight subs. Can clock high too.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> Yep, i think he was just benching for frequency, nothing for daily, anyways dual rank djr seems to be the way if it can clock 4800+ daily stable, i wonder how micron rev B dual rank does, it does nice tight tcl and good trcd with tight subs. Can clock high too.


too expensive to dabble and buildzoid keep saying its temp sensitive.


----------



## cstkl1

@YaqY 
check Kevin Wu Facebook. 
he is from teamgroup

stalk safedisk on facebook. ( u can find his name. lol)


----------



## Nizzen

Pleace post what kit to buy for Rocketlake. 2x16GB -> GO!
It better beat my b-die 4800c17 singlerank


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Pleace post what kit to buy for Rocketlake. 2x16GB -> GO!
> It better beat my b-die 4800c17 singlerank


latency to beat that of course difficult but not so much on bandwidth.. thats easy.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> latency to beat that of course difficult but not so much on bandwidth.. thats easy.


What gives me best fps in Battlefield V, pleace post memorykit  4800+ oc 2x16...


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> What gives me best fps in Battlefield V, pleace post memorykit  4800+ oc 2x16...


djr differ alot bro. 

theres a reasom adata pricing that SR 5kc19 kit usd 900..


----------



## Arni90

Looks like I'll try my DR B-die first, if DR DJR ends up better later I can always get that later


----------



## Ikaros007

Hello,I have a 10900k and I will go for the 11gen beacause of the pcie4 support (have the Samsung 980). And my question is..must buy 11700k or 11900k?.how much oc can handle a 11700k and how much a 11900k? (Average chips)
My second question is I have the patriot Viper 4400 2x8
Can go with them 17 18 18 39 @ 4400mhz
These sticks Can do the work for 11gen?..


----------



## Falkentyne

Ikaros007 said:


> Hello,I have a 10900k and I will go for the 11gen beacause of the pcie4 support (have the Samsung 980). And my question is..must buy 11700k or 11900k?.how much oc can handle a 11700k and how much a 11900k? (Average chips)
> My second question is I have the patriot Viper 4400 2x8
> Can go with them 17 18 18 39 @ 4400mhz
> These sticks Can do the work for 11gen?..


NDA....

Yes your sticks will work.


----------



## morph.

@cstkl1 got any more information, please?









Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


@cstkl1 Atm I've not planned to upgrade to 11 gen (I have 2x 10700k and 1x 10850k) but I found 2x16Gb " Kingston HyperX Predator 3600c17'' HX436C17PB3K2/32 kit at very good price; someone tested this memory kit ? I can't find any good review with IC confirmation. Found this review 2x8Gb kit...




www.overclock.net





@Falkentyne NDA aside what would you suggest ^


----------



## morph.

Ikaros007 said:


> Hello,I have a 10900k and I will go for the 11gen beacause of the pcie4 support (have the Samsung 980). And my question is..must buy 11700k or 11900k?.how much oc can handle a 11700k and how much a 11900k? (Average chips)
> My second question is I have the patriot Viper 4400 2x8
> Can go with them 17 18 18 39 @ 4400mhz
> These sticks Can do the work for 11gen?..


AFAIK if you keep your z490 board it's likely that only the PCI-E 4.0 will be enabled on theGPU and not the m2 nvme port. best to confirm with your manufacturer else you will need a z590 etc...


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> @cstkl1 got any more information, please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> @cstkl1 Atm I've not planned to upgrade to 11 gen (I have 2x 10700k and 1x 10850k) but I found 2x16Gb " Kingston HyperX Predator 3600c17'' HX436C17PB3K2/32 kit at very good price; someone tested this memory kit ? I can't find any good review with IC confirmation. Found this review 2x8Gb kit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Falkentyne NDA aside what would you suggest ^


i didnt really bench any SR bdie.. so hence why i cant say
but ..i know 5k no issue..


----------



## OCPG

Any1 know if the new 11900K OC's better on z590 boards over z490? Any reason I need a z590 board regarding CPU/ram perf? I don't care about the features like WiFi 6/Thunderbolt. My current MSI board supports PCIe Gen 4 on GPU/M.2.


----------



## Falkentyne

OCPG said:


> Any1 know if the new 11900K OC's better on z590 boards over z490? Any reason I need a z590 board regarding CPU/ram perf? I don't care about the features like WiFi 6/Thunderbolt. My current MSI board supports PCIe Gen 4 on GPU/M.2.


Don't know about others, but Asus Z590 board has a better VRM.
Intersil instead of International rectifier.
10900k OC's with tighter regulation on Z590 than Z490. Load vmin is the same. Bios voltage set is slightly lower for same vmin.


----------



## 2500k_2

Some answers to your questions without NDA.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> i didnt really bench any SR bdie.. so hence why i cant say
> but ..i know 5k no issue..


@cstkl1 I'm referring to where the information you have regarding 11th gen being 100% stable etc...


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> @cstkl1 I'm referring to where the information you have regarding 11th gen being 100% stable etc...


buy ghostrunner
open hwinfo in the background
enable RT

try climb level especially.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> buy ghostrunner
> open hwinfo in the background
> enable RT
> 
> try climb level especially.


Hrmm okay, I understand what you are comparing but this is based on 1 game? That can be poorly optimised? As an example, Cold War seems to give me a fair bit of WHEA errors but stable with mostly everything else I play...

Few possible variables here could be GPU driver/poor game optimisation as well. Was hoping for something more conclusive is all as this could sway me to the 11900k over the 10900k's slightly better performance and thermals.


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Hrmm okay, I understand what you are comparing but this is based on 1 game? That can be poorly optimised? As an example, Cold War seems to give me a fair bit of WHEA errors but stable with mostly everything else I play...
> 
> Few possible variables here could be GPU driver/poor game optimisation as well. Was hoping for something more conclusive is all as this could sway me to the 11900k over the 10900k's slightly better performance and thermals.


if u want to argue instead of testing and assuming its only one game which later u stated cold war and then blaming the game...

this is gonna be about me trying to convince u with so much effort and no gain

asked and answered dude.

your comp is not stable.

rkl doesnt have these instabilities.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> Hrmm okay, I understand what you are comparing but this is based on 1 game? That can be poorly optimised? As an example, Cold War seems to give me a fair bit of WHEA errors but stable with mostly everything else I play...
> 
> Few possible variables here could be GPU driver/poor game optimisation as well. Was hoping for something more conclusive is all as this could sway me to the 11900k over the 10900k's slightly better performance and thermals.


You really should listen to cstkl1.
He knows what he's talking about.
You can't just say "oh I got WHEA's in cold war" but I'm' stable.
If you get Parity Errors in one game, it means OTHER games can also give these errors.
It's an issue with Skylake's design when you exceed a certain # of threads. The arch was never made for 20 threads.

Try playing Minecraft. You'll be bombed with WHEA's. All parity errors.
Then if you set affinity to 6 threads, there will be no errors and no FPS drop either. Why is that?


----------



## morph.

@cstkl1 @Falkentyne.

Not arguing, I'm merely just trying to learn and do all my due diligence to understand the context of why it is unstable, I like to know why not just take information at face value. Forgive me if I found a singular example(game) as inconclusive. However, with the examples of Cold War/Minecraft, it's starting to make more sense. I guess it also explains why I seem to crash out of cold war/warzone more frequently with my 10850k over my 8700k. I was never able to really pinpoint why even though stress testing my 10850k / ram OC's seemed perfectly stable and pass.

To be honest, never occurred to me to try to lower the affinity to fewer threads. I wonder if 10th gen runs more stable with HT disabled or the issue still occurs regardless of that?

Do these parity WHEA errors plague the zen3 platform as well I don't follow team red at all so this is just a by-product of curiosity or is it an intel architectural design flaw from eeking out as many cores as possible.

The 11900k is now starting to look a lot more appealing hoping the thermal/voltage requirements are better than what I'm seeing currently for 5.3ghz all cores as well as RAM OC / Latency is equal and not worse like earlier on this thread I seemed to read.

Thanks.


----------



## encrypted11

Can anyone with a rocket lake run Google Stressapptest for maybe 60 seconds and see how it looked in terms of memory copy rate?

Can be done with the Linux shell enabled and after obtaining a linux build from the microsoft store.

stressapptest -M <have memory usage of at least 95%> -w -s 60


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> @cstkl1 @Falkentyne.
> 
> Not arguing, I'm merely just trying to learn and do all my due diligence to understand the context of why it is unstable, I like to know why not just take information at face value. Forgive me if I found a singular example(game) as inconclusive. However, with the examples of Cold War/Minecraft, it's starting to make more sense. I guess it also explains why I seem to crash out of cold war/warzone more frequently with my 10850k over my 8700k. I was never able to really pinpoint why even though stress testing my 10850k / ram OC's seemed perfectly stable and pass.
> 
> To be honest, never occurred to me to try to lower the affinity to fewer threads. I wonder if 10th gen runs more stable with HT disabled or the issue still occurs regardless of that?
> 
> Do these parity WHEA errors plague the zen3 platform as well I don't follow team red at all so this is just a by-product of curiosity or is it an intel architectural design flaw from eeking out as many cores as possible.
> 
> The 11900k is now starting to look a lot more appealing hoping the thermal/voltage requirements are better than what I'm seeing currently for 5.3ghz all cores as well as RAM OC / Latency is equal and not worse like earlier on this thread I seemed to read.
> 
> Thanks.


only way on oc was to disable HT

with ht and oced
also setting dram switching frequency
the correct dr/dd value solved it 98-99%

then u get crashes once in a blue moon where no event parity triggers.

this doesnt happen in rkl.

latency so far only sotr was buggy. every other game with high 1:2 tight turnaround..

its equivalent of my cml 5.3


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> @cstkl1 @Falkentyne.
> 
> Not arguing, I'm merely just trying to learn and do all my due diligence to understand the context of why it is unstable, I like to know why not just take information at face value. Forgive me if I found a singular example(game) as inconclusive. However, with the examples of Cold War/Minecraft, it's starting to make more sense. I guess it also explains why I seem to crash out of cold war/warzone more frequently with my 10850k over my 8700k. I was never able to really pinpoint why even though stress testing my 10850k / ram OC's seemed perfectly stable and pass.
> 
> To be honest, never occurred to me to try to lower the affinity to fewer threads. I wonder if 10th gen runs more stable with HT disabled or the issue still occurs regardless of that?
> 
> Do these parity WHEA errors plague the zen3 platform as well I don't follow team red at all so this is just a by-product of curiosity or is it an intel architectural design flaw from eeking out as many cores as possible.
> 
> The 11900k is now starting to look a lot more appealing hoping the thermal/voltage requirements are better than what I'm seeing currently for 5.3ghz all cores as well as RAM OC / Latency is equal and not worse like earlier on this thread I seemed to read.
> 
> Thanks.


zen gets unexplained bsod
etc partly due to bad binning

and then the whea agesa thing.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> @cstkl1 @Falkentyne.
> 
> Not arguing, I'm merely just trying to learn and do all my due diligence to understand the context of why it is unstable, I like to know why not just take information at face value. Forgive me if I found a singular example(game) as inconclusive. However, with the examples of Cold War/Minecraft, it's starting to make more sense. I guess it also explains why I seem to crash out of cold war/warzone more frequently with my 10850k over my 8700k. I was never able to really pinpoint why even though stress testing my 10850k / ram OC's seemed perfectly stable and pass.
> 
> To be honest, never occurred to me to try to lower the affinity to fewer threads. I wonder if 10th gen runs more stable with HT disabled or the issue still occurs regardless of that?
> 
> Do these parity WHEA errors plague the zen3 platform as well I don't follow team red at all so this is just a by-product of curiosity or is it an intel architectural design flaw from eeking out as many cores as possible.
> 
> The 11900k is now starting to look a lot more appealing hoping the thermal/voltage requirements are better than what I'm seeing currently for 5.3ghz all cores as well as RAM OC / Latency is equal and not worse like earlier on this thread I seemed to read.
> 
> Thanks.


Disabling hyperthreading removes the Cache L0 error (virtualized instruction register store corruption) since you aren't using virtualized registers anymore.
Yes it can reduce Parity Errors but you still have 8-10 active cores regardless.
Zen gets WHEA's for completely different reasons. It isn't skylake++++ cores.
Bottom line is Intel pushed Skylake till it broke. There's a reason why HEDT doesn't have ring and has much lower mesh clocks.


----------



## morph.

mmm, interesting thankyou gents reviews will drop tomorrow so looking forward to that guess I'll preorder the 11900k and switch it out with my 10850k...


----------



## Astral85

Falkentyne said:


> Don't know about others, but Asus Z590 board has a better VRM.
> Intersil instead of International rectifier.
> 10900k OC's with tighter regulation on Z590 than Z490. Load vmin is the same. Bios voltage set is slightly lower for same vmin.


What do you mean 10900K OC's with tighter regulation?


----------



## Falkentyne

Astral85 said:


> What do you mean 10900K OC's with tighter regulation?


Newer VRM. Intersil has "ATA" (what was known as Adaptive Transient Algorithm for International Rectifier) properly built into the VRM, which Intersil previously called Active Transient Response, which may be called something different now. I noticed improvements with 0 mOhm (no vdroop) LLC on the Z490 Aorus Master, when testing Prime95 FMA3 with Ultra Extreme LLC at borderline settings with 500 khz switching freq compared to 300 khz sw freq. On the International Rectifier VRM (M12 Extreme) improvements were hard to come buy unless you enabled ATA manually by accessing the VRM, but ATA has been known to fry VRM's in the past. I actually degraded my VRM on my Z390 Aorus Master / i9 9900k slightly, when testing ATA for Asus to determine if a low amount of ATA was safe for end users to have enabled on Z490, by running Prime95 FMA3 at Ultra Extreme LLC for 4 hours with ATA set aggressively via direct access to the VRM. Chip didn't degrade but the board would just power off and reboot unless Current protection was maxed out after that run (which didn't happen before). Not exactly the best board for testing that with Gigabyte's bad transients.

ATA is enabled at a small level at LLC 6-8 (at boot time) on Asus Z490 M12E and M12A only. Disabled at LLC 1-5. Tests showed about a 10mv vmin improvement.
Not necessary on Z590.

Some old ATR stuff here. Intersil explains this a hell of a lot better than IR does ATA.





ISL6580 Datasheet by Renesas Electronics America Inc | Digi-Key Electronics


View datasheets for ISL6580 by Renesas Electronics America Inc and other related components here.



www.digikey.be





Vdroop is slightly lower at same LLC. Vlatch delta is lower.


----------



## FlanK3r

Also I am ready, but it will be in local language 
But on Z490 platform only :-/


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> only way on oc was to disable HT
> 
> with ht and oced
> also setting dram switching frequency
> the correct dr/dd value solved it 98-99%
> 
> then u get crashes once in a blue moon where no event parity triggers.
> 
> this doesnt happen in rkl.
> 
> latency so far only sotr was buggy. every other game with high 1:2 tight turnaround..
> 
> its equivalent of my cml 5.3


I found the kit you recommended but the ripjaw version. The pcb is 8 layer versus 10 layer of the royal or trident kits.
F4-4266C17D-32GVKB

Cant find in Spain the 10 layer kits. Do you think it will affect much in performance- overclocking it?


----------



## encrypted11

MSI's Toppc


----------



## FlanK3r

I remember this guy from old times, he was one of the first who did leaks of Phenom Agena many years ago


----------



## cstkl1

not sure to write a guide on ram oc for rkl..
some ppl will monetize things on discord charging ppl usd 500 to optimize their comp based on reading other ppl effort..

will just post aida


----------



## Nizzen

First retail 11900k arrived today 

Best hobby 🤗


----------



## FatedWolf

So I'm going to drop into a store and get an 11700k or 11900k tomorrow, but still stuck deciding between the two. Price : Performance aside, do the 11900k seem to be binning any higher than the 11700k? Know we've got a mix of limited information and NDAs, but I was hoping we'd have something.

That aside, I've been reading through as much of this thread as possible, but there are a few things that I haven't been understanding :

About the 1:1 vs 1:2, it seems that people are recommending running higher ram clock on 1:2 over lower on 1:1-- could someone explain this to me?

Would this be relevant to me, with micron e-die? People have said I can expect up to maybe4000mhz from them, but they're definitely not top tier for overclocking.
Since I'm likely not reaching super high ram clocks, should I run lower clock at 1:1?

Thanks, this is my first post on oc.net, hope to get along with you all!


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> not sure to write a guide on ram oc for rkl..
> some ppl will monetize things on discord charging ppl usd 500 to optimize their comp based on reading other ppl effort..
> 
> will just post aida


cstkl1 can you check the post I put above? It's about the ram-kit you recommended.


----------



## Emmett

Will Any of these be decent for 11900K? I feel like I have not made the best ram purchases.

F4-4500C19-8GTZKKE 19-19-19 1.450V @4500 Gskill SR
HX440C19PB3AK2/16 19-21-21 1.35V @4000 HyperX SR
BLM2K16G44C19U4B 19-19-19 1.40V @4400 Crucial SR
BL2K16G36C16U4B 16-18-18 1.35 @3600 Crucial DR


----------



## GanjaSMK

@cstkl1 @Falkentyne

After reading all your information here and another thread, thanks for all the input. 

Quick question - on WHEA parity error logs (warnings) - this is happening when the clocks are both high (5ghz+) or at stock, and/or at all clocks, even under 'stock' where the cores boost based on thermal velocity/TAU etc?

Meaning - I was seeing warning logs of parity errors but not for 3 weeks after letting this board handle voltages instead of manual input. And they are within 'range' but would generally be considered 'high' (10850k). Is this the same for all CML or just i9 variants? 🤔


----------



## Falkentyne

GanjaSMK said:


> @cstkl1 @Falkentyne
> 
> After reading all your information here and another thread, thanks for all the input.
> 
> Quick question - on WHEA parity error logs (warnings) - this is happening when the clocks are both high (5ghz+) or at stock, and/or at all clocks, even under 'stock' where the cores boost based on thermal velocity/TAU etc?
> 
> Meaning - I was seeing warning logs of parity errors but not for 3 weeks after letting this board handle voltages instead of manual input. And they are within 'range' but would generally be considered 'high' (10850k). Is this the same for all CML or just i9 variants? 🤔


This is what happens when a company pushes a SKU to its breaking point. And it's why mesh speeds are so low on HEDT (e.g. 10980XE).
To stop parity errors: Reduce the cache ratio, Increase your loadline calibration, increase Vcore, or lower both Core and cache ratio and increase LLC/VCore.


----------



## Kana Chan

z590 mocf?


----------



## Knoxx29

⁸


morph. said:


> Cold War seems to give me a fair bit of WHEA errors but stable with mostly everything else I play...


I was having the same issue ( 10700K ) fixed the WHEA errors Increasing VCCIO and VCCSA and to confirm if/that my PC was stable or not ran Prime95 and it passed 5 hours,


----------



## fray_bentos

Knoxx29 said:


> ⁸
> 
> I was having the same issue ( 10700K ) fixed the WHEA errors Increasing VCCIO and VCCSA and to confirm if/that my PC was stable or not ran Prime95 and it passed 5 hours,


What did you raise them to?


----------



## GanjaSMK

I have similar example... my IO 1.25 and SA 1.3 - 10850K


----------



## morph.

Knoxx29 said:


> I was having the same issue ( 10700K ) fixed the WHEA errors Increasing VCCIO and VCCSA and to confirm if/that my PC was stable or not ran Prime95 and it passed 5 hours,





GanjaSMK said:


> I have similar example... my IO 1.25 and SA 1.3 - 10850K


My in system IO is 1.328v & SA is 1.344v and LLC is at 7.


----------



## GanjaSMK

morph. said:


> My in system IO is 1.328v & SA is 1.344v and LLC is at 7.


@ 5.2 All core 24/7 ???


----------



## morph.

GanjaSMK said:


> @ 5.2 All core 24/7 ???


Yep got a custom water loop, SP 79


----------



## IronAge

@Kana Chan 

Well if it was matx form factor i would suppose Z590M OC Formula, but nice find.


----------



## GanjaSMK

mm... I am on MSI ; no SP to tell. Also AFII 280.... lol .... 5Ghz/47ring @ io 1.24/sa 1.3 working so far with VCORE @ 1.3

RAM @ 2x16GB DR SS B-DIE @ 3800-15-15-15 1.45v active fans cooling (kit G.Skill 3200/C14)


----------



## karate

morph. said:


> My in system IO is 1.328v & SA is 1.344v and LLC is at 7.


10700 5.1ghz IO1.3 SA1.35 LLC6 I am not see WHEA error. May be can tune those down some more but I having problem with keep the memory stable.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I found the kit you recommended but the ripjaw version. The pcb is 8 layer versus 10 layer of the royal or trident kits.
> F4-4266C17D-32GVKB
> 
> Cant find in Spain the 10 layer kits. Do you think it will affect much in performance- overclocking it?


i dunno dude. luumi has the ripjaw version and he is running 4800..

so


----------



## Knoxx29

fray_bentos said:


> What did you raise them to?


1.18 both


----------



## cstkl1

whea paririty is not a SA/IO issue

if you want to be sure your SA/IO is the correct pairing.
Do @Falkentyne Prime FFT112min/max, fft in place, all avx disable. and must be in HT on for CML


----------



## Knoxx29

cstkl1 said:


> whea paririty is not a SA/IO issue
> 
> if you want to be sure your SA/IO is the correct pairing.
> Do @Falkentyne Prime FFT112min/max, fft in place, all avx disable. and must be in HT on for CML


Pretty weird, paririty was the the error i found in event viewer, less than 1.18 and got WHEA errors Everytime and at 1.18 works great, i ran Prime95 set the same way you are mentioning.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

Any good? Im on a buget and also getting what is available.


----------



## YaqY

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Any good? Im on a buget and also getting what is available.


Those are trash, hynix mjr clocks very badly and doesn't do good mains.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

YaqY said:


> Those are trash, hynix mjr clocks very badly and doesn't do good mains.


"trash" well I asked for it


----------



## Knoxx29

Was enough to say they're not good Overclockable


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Any good? Im on a buget and also getting what is available.


Booted 4600, but very hard to tighten the timings since 4133.


----------



## YaqY

Knoxx29 said:


> Was enough to say they're not good Overclockable


Not sure what you are complaining about, mjr should be avoided, stuff doesn't tighten well, just get some micron rev B if you want something cheaper than bdie, djr is also an option.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

YaqY said:


> Not sure what you are complaining about, mjr should be avoided, stuff doesn't tighten well, just get some micron rev B if you want something cheaper than bdie, djr is also an option.


Arogance is not becoming. He means It would have been enough to say they are not good overclockers, but you had to go that extra mile and say they are "*trash*". Again I asked for it so whatever man.

I wanted a bit of overclock out of them. No big deal.


----------



## YaqY

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Arogance is not becoming. He means It would have been enough to say they are not good overclockers, but you had to go that extra mile and say they are "*trash*". Again I asked for it so whatever man.
> 
> I wanted a bit of overclock out of them. No big deal.


I don't get how that is arrogant, it is like me calling samsung c-die trash, not a personal insult just saying you won't get good overclocking capability from those.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

YaqY said:


> I don't get how that is arrogant, it is like me calling samsung c-die trash, not a personal insult just saying you won't get good overclocking capability from those.


One more time, I asked for it, you're right. Fair point... Point made. Got it. Thanks.


----------



## YaqY

Ex0duS5150 said:


> One more time, I asked for it, you're right. Fair point... Point made. Got it. Thanks.


Look at crucial and see what they offer if you are looking for something cheaper, are you looking for dual rank?


----------



## cstkl1

4 more hours


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> i dunno dude. luumi has the ripjaw version and he is running 4800..
> 
> so


Will this kit be good for 10900k as well?

Correct me because I might be wrong but maybe you said 10th gen prefers latency and 11th gen frequency?


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> Will this kit be good for 10900k as well?
> 
> Correct me because I might be wrong but maybe you said 10th gen prefers latency and 11th gen frequency?


Dual rank bdie is the way to go for cometlake.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Will this kit be good for 10900k as well?
> 
> Correct me because I might be wrong but maybe you said 10th gen prefers latency and 11th gen frequency?


intel ALWAYS prefer bandwidth

i said go 1:2 on intel because bandwidth trumps latency 1:1


----------



## Astral85

@cstkl1 Vermintide 11900K/10900K?


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> @cstkl1 Vermintide 11900K/10900K?


v2.. 11900k FTW..
v2 no diff after 5.1ghz 10700k vs 10900k
but bump in fps on stock 11900k.


----------



## Falkentyne

Minecraft !!!!!!!!!


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> v2.. 11900k FTW..
> v2 no diff after 5.1ghz 10700k vs 10900k
> but bump in fps on stock 11900k.


Do you mean 10700K/10900K matches stock 11900K above 5.1 or no difference between 10700K/10900K @ 5.1+? Is 0.1/1% better with 11900K or just max fps?


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> Do you mean 10700K/10900K matches stock 11900K above 5.1 or no difference between 10700K/10900K @ 5.1+? Is 0.1/1% better with 11900K or just max fps?


alot of games maxes out on skylake 9900k/10700k @ 5.1.. so using 10900k no diff 
unless u try different architecture or massively increase to like 5.4ghz

so rkl has major ipc boost on clock to clock vs skylake.. so v2 gets more fps...


----------



## menko2

I payed 650€ for the 11900k here in spain and o just saw this in spain as well. 150€ difference.

Does the 11900kf get a worst bin than 11900k or it's just the igpu?


----------



## weleh

CML wise, KF was better binned than K.

Who knows about RKL...


----------



## cstkl1

some aidas...

11900k ES : SP 76
M13A - Bios 0703
GSKILL 4000C17D-32GTRSB
Klevv Bolt XR 3600C18 2x16gb
Klevv Bolt XR 4000C19 2x8gb

3866C14 @ 1.5v SA/IO 1.4


4533C17 @ 1.5v SA/IO 1.4, 1.3


5066C20 @ 1.6v SA/IO 1.3/1.3


5333C20 @ 1.8v sa/io 1.35/1.35


M13E - Bios 02xx (This is old mrc code so just OC should be around the same except ram latency a bit higher--2-3ns compare to current bios)

5.2ghz all core 4400C16 SA 1.3 MC IO 1.05
5.3ghz boosted on the two prefered core













WD SN850 OEM
 

Stock CPU 11900k



F1 2020 Stock strix, Stock cpu , 3733C14
Australia, Cycle


----------



## Astral85

@cstkl1 1.459V CPU? Is that auto or manual set?


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> @cstkl1 1.459V CPU? Is that auto or manual set?


nah it not reading it correctly.. its auto.. i always just auto oc just change loadline until prime passes..
all these were LLC4

Prime 95 load small FFT , all avx disable
5.2ghz vmin 1.39v
5.1ghz vmin 1.33v
4.8ghz vmin 1.21v

temps clock to clock around 5c more than my
10900k vmin
5.2ghz @ 1.24v
5.1ghz @ 1.17v


----------



## cstkl1

some of these i need to retest.. cause a lot of it havent bench on apex.

thanks to
@shamino1978

that dude has been working non stop for everybody for months.. think the only time he took a break was CNY.
if not intel, its amd.. he always fixing something testing something coming up with crazy stuff


----------



## cstkl1

cpu stuff check @Falkentyne

i really didnt do anything for cpu oc indepth etc

even have a tool was suppose to run to find best loadline but everyday been bz with ram.


----------



## cstkl1

also be a stalker. stalk safedisk on his FB
that guy insane.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> also be a stalker. stalk safedisk on his FB
> that guy insane.


What is his facebook, haven't found his posts.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> What is his facebook, haven't found his posts.


i cant post that link publicly but
search safedisk and you will see him


----------



## cstkl1

rams brands u can try
the one safedisk uses v-color





__





v-color Technology Inc.-Your Ultimate Memory Solution


Professionalism




www.v-color.com.tw





good djr SR sticks are very hard to get 

gskill did 19-26-26-46 5k @1.55 back in april 2020


----------



## cstkl1

gskill, team, kingston [email protected] kit incoming..


----------



## cstkl1

6666


----------



## Kana Chan

__





ASRock OC Formula


Personal CV/Resume HTML5 Template




www.asrock.com




New colors+metallic looking instead of the yellow paint


----------



## OCPG

Would this Micron E Die kit be a decent budget option? https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-28800-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07TB4J2DD/


----------



## cstkl1

G.SKILL Announces New Extreme Speed Memory Kits Up to DDR4-5333 for Intel Z590 Platform - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


30 March 2021 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is elated to announce new extreme-speed DDR4 memory kits that push memory speed to the extreme limits on the latest Intel Z590 platform, including...




gskill.com


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## cstkl1

for those who dont know safedisk/shamino


----------



## FlanK3r

Of course, Soonho is good OC friend from crazy community  And I saw Shammy in real life, in 2015 at Computex, wow.


This were nice days. I was as only one Czech guy there, so I joined to in India team  and at opposite side Roman and 8Pack


----------



## cstkl1

asus rebar driver out





ROG Strix GeForce RTX 3080 OC Edition 10GB GDDR6X | Graphics Cards


The ROG Strix GeForce RTX 3080 OC Edition 10GB GDDR6X unleash the maximum performance on NVIDIA Ampere Architecture, by featuring Axial-tech fan design, 0dB technology, 2.9-slot Design, Dual BIOS, Auto-Extreme Technology, SAP II, MaxContact Technology, and more.



rog.asus.com




nvidia rebar driver also








GeForce RTX 30 Series Performance Accelerates With Resizable BAR Support | GeForce News | NVIDIA


Support available now for all GeForce RTX 30 Series Founders Edition graphics cards, and select GeForce RTX 30 Series laptops.<br/>



www.nvidia.com


----------



## Falkentyne

+250 points in Port Royal from 3090 FE Resize Bar and game ready drivers. Nice!









I scored 14 833 in Port Royal


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## Nizzen

Easter deliver this year! Rocketlake and ReBar 🥳


----------



## tomwarren

Anyone tried today’s 0704 BIOS for the MAXIMUS XIII HERO?


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> nice but think you wont like whats coming on 30th for oc result for r20/23.
> 
> nice single threaded score though.


So where is it ?


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> So where is it ?


already beat ure multi.. u want me to beat that single.. thats not difficult. just have to change the cores to middle ones.

thats on december 2020

anyway.

hmm rebar bad for rkl
test using F1 2020

rebar on 268
rebar off 3xx...


----------



## aznguyen316

This is an interesting video from Der8auer






Delidding 11900k saw some great results. Stock IHS and liquid metal. 12 degree difference.


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> already beat ure multi.. u want me to beat that single.. thats not difficult. just have to change the cores to middle ones.
> 
> thats on december 2020
> 
> anyway.
> 
> hmm rebar bad for rkl
> test using F1 2020
> 
> rebar on 268
> rebar off 3xx...


Hmm ?










VS










Anyway, nice scores, seems like you are running one of the most optimized rocket lake setups


----------



## aznguyen316

Astral85 said:


> I don't know, no one has posted any temp data yet that I'm aware of.


Check Der8auer video I linked a few posts ago. He’s pretty surprised but that’s a nice result. 12c lower temp.


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> Hmm ?
> 
> View attachment 2484433
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> View attachment 2484431
> 
> 
> Anyway, nice scores, seems like you are running one of the most optimized rocket lake setups


lol and changing the narrative when u said we dont want to see 5950x one ccd.

bro can u test f1 2020 etc rebar seems worse on rkl.

err thats not even a good test. it was on raw bios m13e back in december. 

not even close to current bios.


----------



## Emmett

Hope it's decent!


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> lol and changing the narrative when u said we dont want to see 5950x one ccd.
> 
> bro can u test f1 2020 etc rebar seems worse on rkl.
> 
> err thats not even a good test. it was on raw bios m13e back in december.
> 
> not even close to current bios.


Is there any independent reviewers you follow we can trust? 

Gaming reviews are all over the place.

Would like to see a watch a review that use OC and good rams.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Is there any independent reviewers you follow we can trust?
> 
> Gaming reviews are all over the place.
> 
> Would like to see a watch a review that use OC and good rams.


theres one guy.



https://youtube.com/c/HardwareNumb3rs



the amount of work he puts in..

but generally end users are better 
they tell us also the cons.


----------



## ALSTER868

@*cstkl1*
What are the chances for a b-die 2x16 3600C16 on RKL platform? It can do 4200 16-16 on Z390 and somewhere around 4400 16-17 or a little better on Z490.
What behaviour and results should I expect on Z590 with this kit, on M13A for ex? Is at least 4400C16 possible or should I look for another better kit?
Thx


----------



## cstkl1

ALSTER868 said:


> @*cstkl1*
> What are the chances for a b-die 2x16 3600C16 on RKL platform? It can do 4200 16-16 on Z390 and somewhere around 4400 16-17 or a little better on Z490.
> What behaviour and results should I expect on Z590 with this kit, on M13A for ex? Is at least 4400C16 possible or should I look for another better kit?
> Thx


extreme vs apex was the sa/io diff. vdimm still same.
dr bdies are fun to a point..
see safedisk that crazy fella. 73/73/73 read/write/copy on dr bdie 4700 c17 stable..

bdie is all about temps and apex.


----------



## ALSTER868

cstkl1 said:


> i wouldnt invest in bdie.


Well I'm not going to invest in it, question was if I should keep or ditch this b-die which I was generally satisfied with for a better kit like DJR as you say or MIcron.


----------



## Electrosoft

cstkl1 said:


> theres one guy.
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtube.com/c/HardwareNumb3rs
> 
> 
> 
> the amount of work he puts in..
> 
> but generally end users are better
> they tell us also the cons.


I second this. Not only the amount of work he puts in but his dedication to how it reflects in WoW which is still my staple game.


----------



## cstkl1

ALSTER868 said:


> Well I'm not going to invest in it, question was if I should keep or ditch this b-die which I was generally satisfied with for a better kit like DJR as you say or MIcron.


micron are damn expensive and is single sided.

djr SR. 1.8v no fear.


----------



## encrypted11

Any chance of running mem tweakit or asrock tc for your timings (if they already support rkl?)


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> Any chance of running mem tweakit or asrock tc for your timings (if they already support rkl?)


asrock doesnt work

memtweakit. youtubers bro da pesky lukers who went on holiday now lurking in forums to finish their oc review..

once they are done all shall be shared. 

you must always allow them to make a fool of themself.lol.


----------



## Talon2016

domdtxdissar said:


> Hmm ?
> 
> View attachment 2484433
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> View attachment 2484431
> 
> 
> Anyway, nice scores, seems like you are running one of the most optimized rocket lake setups


Nice CB23 single core. Pretty close to my first run with my 11900K OC.


----------



## Emmett

Not so good.


----------



## fourthavenue




----------



## encrypted11

cstkl1 said:


> asrock doesnt work
> 
> memtweakit. youtubers bro da pesky lukers who went on holiday now lurking in forums to finish their oc review..
> 
> once they are done all shall be shared.
> 
> you must always allow them to make a fool of themself.lol.


Well sounds like a plan.
They need to start working on their own content than getting paid for copying off the internet, clickbaits aside.


----------



## MoeBen

Emmett said:


> Not so good.


Aww 55 is pretty low


----------



## menko2

MoeBen said:


> Aww 55 is pretty low


Return that. 55 is a bad one.

One of my reasons of doubt upgrade from 10900k is because I have a sp 92.


----------



## IronAge

Emmett said:


> Not so good.


That is really bad, worst i seen for this Socket so far, try to RMA it.  My first 11700K @ M13H has SP69.


----------



## menko2

So far for gaming against the 10900k the 11900k is not what I expected at all. 

So you agree guys?


----------



## fray_bentos

Can anyone inform whether Intel Adaptive Boost is supported on Z490 boards?


----------



## FlanK3r

yes, its working, tested on M12Apex


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> bro can u test f1 2020 etc rebar seems worse on rkl.


dont know if i have time to test f1 tonight or tomorrow, but i have bought it and plan to bench it atleast.


----------



## aznguyen316

Electrosoft said:


> I second this. Not only the amount of work he puts in but his dedication to how it reflects in WoW which is still my staple game.


This is how I originally found him. Through some wow benchmarks. Good stuff. Knowledgeable person.


----------



## fray_bentos

FlanK3r said:


> yes, its working, tested on M12Apex


Thanks, I get the feeling that support for Intel Adaptive Boost on Z490 may vary from board to board, since I haven't read anywhere about it being "supported on all Z490 boards".


----------



## bastian

Steve isn't even trying to hide his click baiting anymore:


----------



## Nizzen

bastian said:


> Steve isn't even trying to hide his click baiting anymore:


While "ScatterBencher" running 5866mhz xmp on 11900k (g.skill prototype)


----------



## i9forever

bastian said:


> Steve isn't even trying to hide his click baiting anymore:


You know, more clicks = more views = more $$$. It´s tailored to his audience.


----------



## CallMeODZ

nobody really makes videos to counter his points. i guess the people that would do that, probably wouldn't fit on camera thou lol


----------



## jomama22

At the end of the day. It's just a hard sell vs the 10900k, especially the past few weeks where a 10900k/kf can be had for quite cheap(sub $400). Even against its own 11700k, it doesn't make all that much sense.

If you are going for broke and binning multiple cpus, then w.e., none of that will matter. But for anyone just buying a cpu and throwing it into their system, it would would hard to recommend the 11900k, especially with alder lake releasing (hopefully) sometime this year.


----------



## menko2

jomama22 said:


> At the end of the day. It's just a hard sell vs the 10900k, especially the past few weeks where a 10900k/kf can be had for quite cheap(sub $400). Even against its own 11700k, it doesn't make all that much sense.
> 
> If you are going for broke and binning multiple cpus, then w.e., none of that will matter. But for anyone just buying a cpu and throwing it into their system, it would would hard to recommend the 11900k, especially with alder lake releasing (hopefully) sometime this year.


Yes man, the more I read the more disapointed i get with 11900k over the 10900k.

I waited for some months for nothing.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> While "ScatterBencher" running 5866mhz xmp on 11900k (g.skill prototype)


yeah good video


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> yeah good video


It is the best video on the planet about Rocketlake


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> At the end of the day. It's just a hard sell vs the 10900k, especially the past few weeks where a 10900k/kf can be had for quite cheap(sub $400). Even against its own 11700k, it doesn't make all that much sense.
> 
> If you are going for broke and binning multiple cpus, then w.e., none of that will matter. But for anyone just buying a cpu and throwing it into their system, it would would hard to recommend the 11900k, especially with alder lake releasing (hopefully) sometime this year.


I'd rather have a RKL than CML however if I intend to use the CPU for awhile while waiting for Meteor Lake or something. The Parity Error problem is only going to get worse for Skylake multicores with devs focusing on optimizing for new arch. Respawn had to deliberately change the code path to avoid 9900k's chain crashing in Apex Legends on King's Canyon. The old code path was available for awhile before World's Edge, with the command line -Force_Old_Gather_Props ,but seemed to stop working after World's Edge map came out (Possibly the entire old code path was removed).

For those who are instajumping to Alder Lake, holding onto CML is smart. Of course people who have lots of money will upgrade to whatever comes out as soon as it comes out...


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> I'd rather have a RKL than CML however if I intend to use the CPU for awhile while waiting for Meteor Lake or something. The Parity Error problem is only going to get worse for Skylake multicores with devs focusing on optimizing for new arch. Respawn had to deliberately change the code path to avoid 9900k's chain crashing in Apex Legends on King's Canyon. The old code path was available for awhile before World's Edge, with the command line -Force_Old_Gather_Props ,but seemed to stop working after World's Edge map came out (Possibly the entire old code path was removed).
> 
> For those who are instajumping to Alder Lake, holding onto CML is smart. Of course people who have lots of money will upgrade to whatever comes out as soon as it comes out...


That's where the pickle comes it. An 11700k is already nabbing at the heels and is far cheaper and, as shown in this thread, can probably match very closely oc vs oc.

As I said, if someone is going to buy it anyway, w.e., that was already going to happen regardless. The hard choice is more for those who have a 7700k-10900k and were waiting for this cpu to come out. With a a 7700k - 9900k, you have already been waiting for a while and if you have to get a cpu and you want intel, then the 11700k just makes more sense, especially if you end up deciding you want alder lake later this year.

For those already on a 10900k, it would be really hard to want to jump onto the 11900k.

To your point about cml and rkl, this is where it just doesn't make sense to buy it. You may as well wait for alder lake. In the 9 months between now and when that is (hopefully) released, there isn't nerely enough leadtime for those developers to code and push applications that just toss skylake arch into the dumpster. The platform is much too popular for developers to just ignore it's userrbase. It was hard enough to get developers to begin multi-thread enhancements over the last decade. Also, let's not also make a mountain out of a mole hill. While these issues exist, they are rare and if brought to the attention of a developer, will most likely be corrected.


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> That's where the pickle comes it. An 11700k is already nabbing at the heels and is far cheaper and, as shown in this thread, can probably match very closely oc vs oc.
> 
> As I said, if someone is going to buy it anyway, w.e., that was already going to happen regardless. The hard choice is more for those who have a 7700k-10900k and were waiting for this cpu to come out. With a a 7700k - 9900k, you have already been waiting for a while and if you have to get a cpu and you want intel, then the 11700k just makes more sense, especially if you end up deciding you want alder lake later this year.
> 
> For those already on a 10900k, it would be really hard to want to jump onto the 11900k.
> 
> To your point about cml and rkl, this is where it just doesn't make sense to buy it. You may as well wait for alder lake. In the 9 months between now and when that is (hopefully) released, there isn't nerely enough leadtime for those developers to code and push applications that just toss skylake arch into the dumpster. The platform is much too popular for developers to just ignore it's userrbase. It was hard enough to get developers to begin multi-thread enhancements over the last decade. Also, let's not also make a mountain out of a mole hill. While these issues exist, they are rare and if brought to the attention of a developer, will most likely be corrected.


You want to know what I find interesting?

Read this post.









Overclocking 10900k results, bins and discussion


Yeah but explain this to me. Please. LLC8=worse transients than LLC4. Right? (ok, on your board, Ultra Extreme=worse transients than "Medium" LLC, right?). Minecraft puts a TINY load on the CPU. Like...30 amps maximum. But it puts a 100% load on one thread of 1 core, and a partial load on...




www.overclock.net





Then compare what he says with the line which forced the old code path (the path which crashed so many 9900k's) after the May 2019 Apex Legends patch: (this wasn't mentioned in the patch notes. Oriostorm posted this in the Apex crash thread right after the patch).
-Force_Old_Gather_Props

Gather is basically the same word as "collection". Now I don't know what props are nor do I understand anything about programming (only took a few classes back during the 386 days), but it sure seems like they're both related to generating parity errors...


----------



## aznguyen316

Emmett said:


> Not so good.


Just installed a 11700K. Sp57 but I expected 11700k to be worse than most 11900k. I don’t think I’d keep a sp55 11900k with that price premium. 

Here’s my VF curve. Kind of hard to compare since it doesn’t show the same VF points but I’ll have to do some testing to see if I can maybe do 4.8-4.9 all core.


----------



## cstkl1

since most ppl are 5ghz on da tube


----------



## Groove2013

I've seen a video of Maximus XIII Hero in 1:2 mode and 4600 and 4700 MHz weren't available to select.
Only 4533 and then directly 4800 MHz.
Is it the same on Apex or it's a "bug" on Hero or made on purpose for people to buy Apex?

Also wondering how high one can push cache frequency, since it helps with RAM latency and increases L3 bandwidth.

I see people reporting they can't get RAM to work at 4266 or higher on Hero, despite 1:2.

And also seen a video where dual rank B-Die had lower Aida values than single rank B-Die for some reason, also on Hero 13.

Also is the RAM OC, how high RAM can be clocked and how much lower timings can be on Apex vs. Hero or it's only marginal if one isn't chasing 5000 GHz or higher RAM frequency for 24/7 setting?

Because I really like the Hero and considering to buy it.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> I've seen a video of Maximus XIII Hero in 1:2 mode and 4600 and 4700 MHz weren't available to select.
> Only 4533 and then directly 4800 MHz.
> Is it the same on Apex or it's a "bug" on Hero or made on purpose for people to buy Apex?
> 
> Also wondering how high one can push cache frequency, since it helps with RAM latency and increases L3 bandwidth.
> 
> I see people reporting they can't get RAM to work at 4266 or higher on Hero, despite 1:2.
> 
> And also seen a video where dual rank B-Die had lower Aida values than single rank B-Die for some reason, also on Hero 13.
> 
> Also is the RAM OC, how high RAM can be clocked and how much lower timings can be on Apex vs. Hero or it's only marginal if one isn't chasing 5000 GHz or higher RAM frequency for 24/7 setting?


bclk.. 4700
change the core multiplier

ASUS boards has bclk aware v/f change.. so if u change bclk the board will adjust the v/f to match that clock on auto.

and these ppl. if they dont come to forums and show what the did which bios.. nobody can help them.


----------



## aznguyen316

If my RAM is at best 4000C17 after overclocking it, is it probably better to just lower speed to 3733 or 3600 and tighten timings for 1:1 or should I just run 4000C17 at 1:2? Obviously I will test, but any thoughts would help save some time =D

I will test some lower speed overclock and see as I've always just run at 4000C17 since that's what I've gotten it stable (original is 2x16gb 3200C15 bdie F4-3200C15D-32GTZKW)


----------



## Groove2013




----------



## Groove2013

And still not answered if Apex allows to have so much tighter timings vs. Hero at let's say 4700 MHz.
Or is the difference marginal in real world usage, other than for benchmarking numbers?


----------



## Groove2013

Also still not clear if most people can't do more than 3733 MHz due to boards with 4 RAM slots, BIOS, IMC or not high enough SA/IO voltages.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Also still not clear if most people can't do more than 3733 MHz due to boards with 4 RAM slots, BIOS, IMC or not high enough SA/IO voltages.


the hci stable is on extreme in december on raw bios.. 
so....


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> And still not answered if Apex allows to have so much tighter timings vs. Hero at let's say 4700 MHz.
> Or is the difference marginal in real world usage, other than for benchmarking numbers?


you are generalizing alot of things and assuming a lot dude...

its not...apex is on sensing with higher clock dude to nature of sa/io just better with it.


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> If my RAM is at best 4000C17 after overclocking it, is it probably better to just lower speed to 3733 or 3600 and tighten timings for 1:1 or should I just run 4000C17 at 1:2? Obviously I will test, but any thoughts would help save some time =D
> 
> I will test some lower speed overclock and see as I've always just run at 4000C17 since that's what I've gotten it stable (original is 2x16gb 3200C15 bdie F4-3200C15D-32GTZKW)


go high 4266C17 and above.

anyway will post PDF's etc for timings for ppl to try out..


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> you are generalizing alot of things and assuming a lot dude...
> 
> its not...apex is on sensing with higher clock dude to nature of sa/io just better with it.


I'm not assuming, but asking and still no answer.

Not what?
Difference from Apex to Hero is more than marginal or the difference with Apex is visible like in games as well and not only benchmarks?

What about DR performing worse in Aida than SR at same settings?


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> I'm not assuming, but asking and still no answer.
> 
> Not what?
> Difference from Apex to Hero is more than marginal or the difference with Apex is visible like in games as well and not only benchmarks?
> 
> What about DR performing worse in Aida than SR at same settings?


The picture is when someone change back and forward in bios, and have no clue what they are doing. Tell them to test xmp on dualrank, and get more performance


This is 3733 c14-14-28 , rest auto in bios
2x16 b-die








Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


That's incorrect, practically all high end gaming and workstations desktops ship with K chips. This has nothing to do with AMD, reviews have always been reviewed at stock with one page dedicated for overclocking. I'm sure the NDA prevented them from showing overclocking results. nda...




www.overclock.net


----------



## aznguyen316

cstkl1 said:


> go high 4266C17 and above.
> 
> anyway will post PDF's etc for timings for ppl to try out..


Thanks. I’ve only tried a couple of times but I don’t think I can get this ram at 4266 to boot. Tried with 18-20-40 1.5V. Didn’t do much tweaking beside that decided to stick with 4000c17 and tune and karhu and gaming stable. I will Google and see if there’s other settings I can tweak to get it to boot at 4266. IO higher? Maybe 1.3 or 1.35?

Asrock timing config 4.0.3 seems to work with Z590 Strix E btw


----------



## Nizzen

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks. I’ve only tried a couple of times but I don’t think I can get this ram at 4266 to boot. Tried with 18-20-40 1.5V. Didn’t do much tweaking beside that decided to stick with 4000c17 and tune and karhu and gaming stable. I will Google and see if there’s other settings I can tweak to get it to boot at 4266. IO higher? Maybe 1.3 or 1.35?
> 
> Asrock timing config 4.0.3 seems to work with Z590 Strix E btw


Set memory oc IO to 1.35v
Io to 1.05 -1.1v
SA to 1.25v


----------



## aznguyen316

Nizzen said:


> Set memory oc IO to 1.35v
> Io to 1.05 -1.1v
> SA to 1.25v


Well damn, that booted. THANK YOU! I had been using a 10900K previous to the 11700K before, but never tried that 1.35V IO.

I left my sub timings the same as 4000 so I'll need to validate via Karhu but this is promising.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> I'm not assuming, but asking and still no answer.
> 
> Not what?
> Difference from Apex to Hero is more than marginal or the difference with Apex is visible like in games as well and not only benchmarks?
> 
> What about DR performing worse in Aida than SR at same settings?


post bro. got to see the settings he used. 
should be his turnarounds


----------



## Groove2013

The settings are not shown in the video.

Is it so difficult to answer if Apex allows much lower timings at same frequency than Hero or not and if the difference can be visible in games?

Don't understand why you're ignoring my question.


----------



## Falkentyne

Groove2013 said:


> The settings are not shown in the video.
> 
> Is it so difficult to answer if Apex allows much lower timings at same frequency than Hero or not and if the difference can be visible in games?
> 
> Don't understand why you're ignoring my question.


He already answered your question but you clearly didn't understand him.
Or maybe you're just getting in WAY over your head.

I suggest you take some time to read the DDR4 memory overclocking thread and learn about some of the terms. Maybe start with Integral's FAQ.

Start here.









integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





And I'll answer your question.
Apex has better signal margins because it's a 2 dimm board and slightly different components onboard to improve trace reflections and terminations.
It will allow higher memory overclocks when you start pushing the limits. Timings are not as relevant, but there's too much stuff to put in a post when dealing with slopes, reflections, terminations, amplitude, wavelengths...you get the point.. It all has to do with signal integrity.
You need to learn how clock signals work.

Then when you're done you can read about slopes








The Importance of Setting Slopes for Memory Overclocking


As the title suggests setting rising and falling data slopes seems important for overclocking memory if you want to push it a little If this seems familiar it's probably because I copied and pasted it from my last thread on skew control and changed a few words :p I spent an afternoon testing...




www.overclock.net





and check some of Phoenix's recent posts in the DDR4 memory overclocking thread. Don't expect a simple answer to difficult questions that take work and study. Memory overclocking is not for beginners.


----------



## Groove2013

As I already mentioned, I'm not chasing highest possible frequency, which is where APex would shine. I also understand that Apex is capable of more tight timings.

My question was if the real world difference (in games) can be noticed or only measured vs. Hero. Not more not less.

Because I'm not somebody who spend a lot of time benching and sqeezing out the last bits thanks to 1000 additional settings for few digits difference to post screenshot of it and be happy about it.

If real FPS difference is almost nonexistent Apex vs. Hero, then I'll buy Hero that will cost me less and have an amplifier for my headphones that are not that easy to drive.


----------



## Falkentyne

Groove2013 said:


> As I already mentioned, I'm not chasing highest possible frequency, which is where APex would shine. I also understand that Apex is capable of more tight timings.
> 
> My question was if the real world difference (in games) can be noticed or only measured vs. Hero. Not more not less.
> 
> Because I'm not somebody who spend a lot of time benching and sqeezing out the last bits thanks to 1000 additional settings for few digits difference to post screenshot of it and be happy about it.
> 
> If real FPS difference is almost nonexistent Apex vs. Hero, then I'll buy Hero that will cost me less and have an amplifier for my headphones that are not that easy to drive.


How is he supposed to know the answer to that question?
He doesn't have a hero.


----------



## Emmett

MoeBen said:


> Aww 55 is pretty low





menko2 said:


> Return that. 55 is a bad one.
> 
> One of my reasons of doubt upgrade from 10900k is because I have a sp 92.





aznguyen316 said:


> Just installed a 11700K. Sp57 but I expected 11700k to be worse than most 11900k. I don’t think I’d keep a sp55 11900k with that price premium.
> 
> Here’s my VF curve. Kind of hard to compare since it doesn’t show the same VF points but I’ll have to do some testing to see if I can maybe do 4.8-4.9 all core.


Yes, I should return this thing, almost thinking of keeping it to have worst 11900K, Hope I did not get COVID waiting in line for this thing. LOL..


----------



## D-EJ915

Groove2013 said:


> Because I'm not somebody who spend a lot of time benching and sqeezing out the last bits thanks to 1000 additional settings for few digits difference to post screenshot of it and be happy about it.
> 
> If real FPS difference is almost nonexistent Apex vs. Hero, then I'll buy Hero that will cost me less and have an amplifier for my headphones that are not that easy to drive.


Apex is for benching with custom settings on the verge of stability, if you're just playing games just get the hero , having "2 FPS" higher is not going to impact your gameplay like it does a bench score. The auto settings are going to be the same between the two.


----------



## Antsu

Groove2013 said:


> As I already mentioned, I'm not chasing highest possible frequency, which is where APex would shine. I also understand that Apex is capable of more tight timings.
> 
> My question was if the real world difference (in games) can be noticed or only measured vs. Hero. Not more not less.
> 
> Because I'm not somebody who spend a lot of time benching and sqeezing out the last bits thanks to 1000 additional settings for few digits difference to post screenshot of it and be happy about it.
> 
> If real FPS difference is almost nonexistent Apex vs. Hero, then I'll buy Hero that will cost me less and have an amplifier for my headphones that are not that easy to drive.


You should definitely just buy the Hero.


----------



## Emmett

What is this craziness, not stable at all, just made me laugh.


----------



## shamino1978

cstkl1 said:


> yeah good video


this is by far the most informative oc video out there about RKL.


----------



## Groove2013

Thanks to those who simply answered, without going too much in the details.

I can OC RAM and will do it for sure, that's why I've bought my 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 XMP 1.5V.
But sure, I'm not that savvy concerning every possible setting there is and won't spend months tweaking.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Thanks to those who simply answered, without going too much in the details.
> 
> I can OC RAM and will do it for sure, that's why I've bought my 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 XMP 1.5V.
> But sure, I'm not that savvy concerning every possible setting there is and won't spend months tweaking.


4266/4400 easy bro on that ram. 4533 i cant say.


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> Well damn, that booted. THANK YOU! I had been using a 10900K previous to the 11700K before, but never tried that 1.35V IO.
> 
> I left my sub timings the same as 4000 so I'll need to validate via Karhu but this is promising.
> 
> View attachment 2484558


1:2 default mrc is 1T (auto)

setting 2T actually ends up like 4T


----------



## cstkl1

remember guys gskill validated 5333 or was it 5066 on strix for djr ..

so dont start doubting what what hero can do.


----------



## robertr1

shamino1978 said:


> this is by far the most informative oc video out there about RKL.


I‘ve been spamming that video all over since I saw elmor post it,

You guys seriously need to have him do more content. He has a great way of explaining things and getting to the point and relaying important info.


----------



## robertr1

Groove2013 said:


> As I already mentioned, I'm not chasing highest possible frequency, which is where APex would shine. I also understand that Apex is capable of more tight timings.
> 
> My question was if the real world difference (in games) can be noticed or only measured vs. Hero. Not more not less.
> 
> Because I'm not somebody who spend a lot of time benching and sqeezing out the last bits thanks to 1000 additional settings for few digits difference to post screenshot of it and be happy about it.
> 
> If real FPS difference is almost nonexistent Apex vs. Hero, then I'll buy Hero that will cost me less and have an amplifier for my headphones that are not that easy to drive.


For daily use, both will be great. For absolute benching performance, Apex will pull ahead. Whether that’s 2% or 5%, depends on the silicon lottery and the knowledge of the operator and how much time they’re willing to dedicate.

All things being equal, the apex can perhaps squeeze around 5% absolute max over a hero when both are maxed out and most of that will come down to ram oc advantages on a 2dimm board.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> remember guys gskill validated 5333 or was it 5066 on strix for djr ..
> 
> so dont start doubting what what hero can do.


It's most certainly only 16 GB SR and not B-Die, so not a good indicator for me (


----------



## encrypted11

@shamino1978 no M13I for 11th Gen?


----------



## wuttman

Are there any limitations with gear mode for B560 boards and locked cpu's?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> It's most certainly only 16 GB SR and not B-Die, so not a good indicator for me (


bdie official DR binned are 4266

theres a reason why after 11 months gskill never sold the 4400c17 kit

SR bdie are strong.


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> Disabling hyperthreading removes the Cache L0 error (virtualized instruction register store corruption) since you aren't using virtualized registers anymore.
> Yes it can reduce Parity Errors but you still have 8-10 active cores regardless.
> Zen gets WHEA's for completely different reasons. It isn't skylake++++ cores.
> Bottom line is Intel pushed Skylake till it broke. There's a reason why HEDT doesn't have ring and has much lower mesh clocks.


Heh interesting when i disabled Hyper Threading warzone had fairly frequently jitters.


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Heh interesting when i disabled Hyper Threading warzone had fairly frequently jitters.


yup. cause games are designed with ht/smt in mind


----------



## YaqY

morph. said:


> Heh interesting when i disabled Hyper Threading warzone had fairly frequently jitters.


Try delete the config, the renderer count is probably bugged. I can play warzone ht off on a 10700k no stutters.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> Heh interesting when i disabled Hyper Threading warzone had fairly frequently jitters.


Probably should manually set CPU render threads to 6 in adv_options.ini, for a 10 core CPU with HT disabled.


----------



## Astral85

.


----------



## fray_bentos

ALSTER868 said:


> @*cstkl1*
> What are the chances for a b-die 2x16 3600C16 on RKL platform? It can do 4200 16-16 on Z390 and somewhere around 4400 16-17 or a little better on Z490.
> What behaviour and results should I expect on Z590 with this kit, on M13A for ex? Is at least 4400C16 possible or should I look for another better kit?
> Thx


As I understand it gear 1 won't work above 3733 MHz on Rocketlake. The TechPowerup review showed that 10900K with b die at DDR4-3800 16-16-16-34 1T universally outperforms a 11900K gear 1 at 3400 CL14 in gaming. I'm not sure whether b die at 3733 CL14 Gear 1 on RocketLake would beat CometLake. If you already have B die and don't want to invest, then It seems like Rocketlake should be skipped. I expect large discounts on Rocket Lake to be incoming within the next few months.


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> While "ScatterBencher" running 5866mhz xmp on 11900k (g.skill prototype)


Sure, but the average consumer, or even a fairly high end one is not going to be investing in such RAM, especially if they already own what they consider to be a good-quality B die kit. Rocket Lake needing expensive, high-clocking RAM to convincingly beat Comet Lake is quite damning (let alone Ryzen 5000).
Edit: Nizzen informs that hynix DJR isn't expensive.


----------



## ALSTER868

fray_bentos said:


> If you already have B die and don't want to invest, then Rocketlake looks like it should be skipped. I expect large discounts on Rocket Lake to be incoming within the next few months.


Do you think there is not a way to achieve 4000+ on a M13A for ex? If it can do 4200-4400 on older platform. Can't believe it.


----------



## fray_bentos

ALSTER868 said:


> Do you think there is not a way to achieve 4000+ on a M13A for ex? If it can do 4200-4400 on older platform. Can't believe it.


My understanding is that on RKL you *have* to use Gear 2 over 3733 MHz which incurs a large latency penalty. Can anyone confirm that this is not the case? This is why recommenations in this thread have been for super high-frequency RAM to offset the penalty of using gear 2. Sadly, b die is better for tight timings and not so much super high clocks (at reasonable voltages).

Edit to quote Falkentyne here:








Asus Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed.


Thanks to Asus and the wizard Shamino for allowing me to test drive their Maximus 13 Extreme and RKL 11900k sample for this user guide. Welcome to a strange time in PC land. Where scalpers, miners, scammers and the pandemic have changed a landscape that was once standard fare and far too...




www.overclock.net




"Memory can run 1:1 (synch) mode up to 3733 mhz. This will usually require a hefty increase in VCCIO and VCCSA. 3866 mhz requires work and silicon lottery and sometimes a large increase in IO/SA. 4000 1:1 is possible on SOME chips with maybe 1.65v IO/SA but do not bother. Listen to cstkl1. Just use 1:2. There is no bandwidth penalty from using 1:2 versus 1:1... At Gear 1 (1:1) you can use 100:133 only. At gear 2, you can use both 100:100 and 100:133, but 100:100 is significantly worse than 100:133 and is not recommended"


----------



## Nizzen

fray_bentos said:


> Sure, but the average consumer, or even a fairly high end one is not going to be investing in such RAM, especially if they already own what they consider to be a good-quality B die kit. Rocket Lake needing expensive, high-clocking RAM to convincingly beat Comet Lake is quite damning (let alone Ryzen 5000).


120$ b-die does 4800mhz easy
120$ hynx does 5000mhz + easy
"expensive"


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 120$ b-die does 4800mhz easy
> 120$ hynx does 5000mhz + easy
> "expensive"


even bro u post 4000 1:1

youtubers and lazy tech sites influencing ppl still wins.


----------



## fray_bentos

Nizzen said:


> 120$ b-die does 4800mhz easy
> 120$ hynx does 5000mhz + easy
> "expensive"


Ok, I stand corrected if that's the case on prices! My understanding is that crazy high voltages are needed, at least on CML. For example, my 3600 CL15 kit can do 3900 MHz CL14, but timings go to hell if I increase clocks further than 4000 MHz (at 1.45 V). Are you saying that the same kit in 1:2 gearing on RKL would run at much higher frequencies compared to CML?


----------



## cstkl1

F1 2020 High , TAA Checkered, AF None, Australia, Dry, Cam:Cycle : 1080p
Stock Cpu, Stock Strix 3080, 3866C14 1:1

Rebar = 269 FPS


Spoiler



 


Rebar Disabled = 388


Spoiler







hmm still trying to figure this out.. so just wanna see is it Zen exclusive or what..


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> F1 2020 High , TAA Checkered, AF None, Australia, Dry, Cam:Cycle : 1080p
> Stock Cpu, Stock Strix 3080, 3866C14 1:1
> 
> Rebar = 269 FPS
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rebar Disabled = 388
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm still trying to figure this out.. so just wanna see is it Zen exclusive or what..


What is "Rebar" ? 
Is it "Resizable BAR" for Nvidia you mean ?

I will bench and come back with results in a few hours for 5950x + 3090 (with "SAM" enabled)


----------



## IronAge

fray_bentos said:


> I expect large discounts on Rocket Lake to be incoming within the next few months.


Sorry but thats BS, the supplies are very low, especially for 11900K. 

Some german distributors have new ETAs of july after the first small delivery has been sold.

Whole semiconductor industry has problems with delivery/availabilty and you fantasize about rebates, sure.


----------



## fray_bentos

IronAge said:


> Sorry but thats BS, the supplies are very low, especially for 11900K.
> 
> Some german distributors have new ETAs of july after the first small delivery has been sold.
> 
> Whole semiconductor industry has problems with delivery/availabilty and you fantasize about rebates, sure.


Time will tell. There is currently no shortage of 10th Gen chips, and many reviews are showing 10th gen outperforming 11th gen in some cases. Given current low prices of 10th gen stock, I expect those to sell out in preference to 11th gen. In addition, if 12th Gen is good, there will be a further drop.


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> hmm still trying to figure this out.. so just wanna see is it Zen exclusive or what..


mabye they should rename it to fuBAR.


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> What is "Rebar" ?
> Is it "Resizable BAR" for Nvidia you mean ?
> 
> I will bench and come back with results in a few hours for 5950x + 3090 (with "SAM" enabled)


wow.. 10 sec benchmark takes few hours for zen.. 
sad..

must be bsod or he cant plug his kb/mouse on da usb part.. 
lol

anyway ya post it bro..
cause nvidia slides showed a 5950x...


----------



## bastian

Another real professional click bait "review"


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> wow.. 10 sec benchmark takes few hours for zen..
> sad..
> 
> must be bsod or he cant plug his kb/mouse on da usb part..
> lol
> 
> anyway ya post it bro..
> cause nvidia slides showed a 5950x...


lol man.. do you understand how timezones work ? I was at work when i wrote that.
Just got home, and i have ran the benchmarks.
Nvidia have screwed the pooch, SAM(Rebar) lowers the performance in F1 2020..



cstkl1 said:


> lol and changing the narrative when u said we dont want to see 5950x one ccd.
> 
> bro can u test f1 2020 etc rebar seems worse on rkl.
> 
> err thats not even a good test. it was on raw bios m13e back in december.
> 
> not even close to current bios.


Australia, Cycle
*SAM (rebar) enabled*
5950x + 3090
1080p = 390 fps average









1440p = 374 fps average









Australia, Cycle
*SAM (rebar) disabled*
5950x + 3090
1080p = 446 fps average









1440p = 408 fps average









Settings used:














And since you demand i disable half my cpu for it to be "fair comparison" for rocket lake, i did a new cinebench run with only 1 CCD enabled (gimped my cpu to only 8 cores)











Spoiler: My other 5950x game benches




















50% res scale








100% res scale











In what games does a optimized 11900 setup score better than a optimized 10900k and/or a optimized Zen3 setup ?
Rocketlake seems to lose on pretty much everything, even with the fastest memory money can buy (?)


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> lol man.. do you understand how timezones work ? I was at work when i wrote that.
> Just got home, and i have ran the benchmarks.
> Nvidia have screwed the pooch, SAM(Rebar) lowers the performance in F1 2020..
> 
> 
> 
> Australia, Cycle
> *SAM (rebar) enabled*
> 5950x + 3090
> 1080p = 390 fps average
> View attachment 2484591
> 
> 
> 1440p = 374 fps average
> View attachment 2484592
> 
> 
> Australia, Cycle
> *SAM (rebar) disabled*
> 5950x + 3090
> 1080p = 446 fps average
> View attachment 2484593
> 
> 
> 1440p = 408 fps average
> View attachment 2484594
> 
> 
> Settings used:
> View attachment 2484595
> View attachment 2484596
> 
> 
> And since you demand i disable half my cpu for it to be "fair comparison" for poor rocket lake with only 8 cores, i did a new bench with only 1 CCD enabled
> View attachment 2484597
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: My other 5950x game benches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2484598
> 
> View attachment 2484599
> 
> 50% res scale
> View attachment 2484600
> 
> 100% res scale
> View attachment 2484601
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In what games does a optimized 11900 setup score better than a optimized 10900k and/or a optimized Zen3 setup ?
> Rocketlake seems to lose on pretty much everything, even with the fastest memory money can buy (?)


oh poor 5950x.. after the poor man came back
.. it had trouble with booting and getting mouse and keyboard to work and still lost to a intel setup..
i demand anything. you said to @Nizzen 
he would like it if u ran 8 core. 
seems like 5950x bsods makes ppl forget what they said. 

side note i think the rebar thing has something to do with DLSS on high resolution.. its bad for cpu driven resolution...

errr cb beat a 11900k??.. errr still looking at it.. dont see it...

wow.. lol a 3090 and a oced cpu.. lol...

anyway this is a 5.2/[email protected]/21gbps 5066vl20. think this will suffice to show the garbage 5950x ...



will plug in my 3090 strix in few months time after when i have to change the fluid on this rig...hopefully your comp still running or booting.. so between now and then.. also hope the number of bsods your windows still intact to redownload. hope u kept more buffer on your 3090..

tested dlss works on 1440p or higher. its bad @1080p

hmm seems like rebar only for high res for nvidia.

testing valhalla next


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> oh poor 5950x.. after the poor man came back
> .. it had trouble with booting and getting mouse and keyboard to work and still lost to a intel setup..
> 
> 
> side note i think the rebar thing has something to do with DLSS on high resolution.. its bad for cpu driven resolution...
> 
> errr cb beat a 11900k??.. errr still looking at it.. dont see it...
> 
> wow.. lol a 3090 and a oced cpu.. lol...
> 
> anyway this is a oced cpu/ 3080 / and some DJR's.. think this will suffice to show the garbage 5950x ...
> 
> 
> 
> will plug in my 3090 strix in few months time after when i have to change the fluid on that rig...hopefully your comp still running or booting.. so between now and then.. also hope the number of bsods your windows still intact to redownload.


You are really a strange man 
How tinted are your glasses ? I dont understand what you and seemingly only you are seeing !?

First we have the comparison in cinebench:


> "errr cb beat a 11900k??.. errr still looking at it.. dont see it..."












VS










Then we have F1 2020 since you link it and try to make a point out of it:


> "anyway this is a 5.2/[email protected]/21gbps 5066vl20. think this will suffice to show the garbage 5950x ..."












VS










446 >431 right ???

And then we have all the other game benchmarks ive linked above.. How are you coming to your conclusions ? 😂
Where are your rocketlake SotTR benches ?


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

the bloodbath...ohhhh..


_time to open some chips.._


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> You are really a strange man
> How tinted are your glasses ? I dont understand what you and seemingly only you are seeing !?
> 
> First we have comparison in cinebench:
> View attachment 2484603
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> View attachment 2484604
> 
> 
> Then we have F1 2020 since you link it and try to make a point out of it:
> View attachment 2484605
> 
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2484606
> 
> 
> 446 >431 right ???
> 
> And then we have all the other game benchmarks ive linked above.. How are you coming to your conclusions ? 😂
> Where are your rocketlake SotTR benches ?


lol
when all things fail.. sudden loss of memory is common.










and you needed a 3090 to beat a 3080 5%...
anyway no bloodbath.. the 5950x lost

will repeat this later on some SR djr or 5200 DR kit incoming.


----------



## cstkl1

other games later dude. currently thats the only game installed with v2

unlike a 5950x which has no potential

11900k end .. still got lot of ram kits to test.


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> lol
> when all things fail.. sudden loss of memory is common.
> 
> View attachment 2484609
> 
> 
> and you needed a 3090 to beat a 3080 5%...
> anyway no bloodbath.. the 5950x lost
> 
> will repeat this later on some SR djr or 5200 DR kit incoming.


let me see if I understood.

Did you buy an I9 11900K, $ 600, watercooler (expensive) and high-end memories, to overclock and still lose to a 5950X (basic oc) in games, single-thread and multi-threading?

and still consider it a victory? LOL

you spent more and received less .


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> let me see if I understood.
> 
> Did you buy an I9 11900K, $ 600, watercooler (expensive) and high-end memories, to overclock and still lose to a 5950X (basic oc) in games, single-thread and multi-threading?
> 
> and still consider it a victory? LOL
> 
> you spent more and received less .


usd 125 on ram, heatsink, pads

not forget the biggest assumption
the sillyness you think a person buys an ES.

again when all argument fails ppl resort to memory loss or start finding some nonsense.

add everything will cost half of his rig. 
guess math not for everybody.


----------



## ldt

Emmett said:


> Not so good.


Can you help me understand what SP mean? Thanks


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> usd 125 on ram, heatsink, pads
> 
> not forget the biggest assumption
> the sillyness you think a person buys an ES.
> 
> again when all argument fails ppl resort to memory loss or start finding some nonsense.
> 
> add everything will cost half of his rig.
> guess math not for everybody.


I didn't know it was an ES, sorry!

You still need to show better performance in games, ST and MT, I'm waiting!


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> I didn't know it was an ES, sorry!
> 
> You still need to show better performance in games, ST and MT, I'm waiting!


errr this is not a convince you to buy intel thread bro.

lol. its where adults figure out flaws and get them fix thread or post potential of the cpu/ram/mobo if they choose to
and help those who has issues with their setup.

infact this if u didnt know both of us just now was just messing around. the issue was rebar on F1 2020.
wasnt sure rkl has problem with rebar. and hence nvidia slide demo was 5950x...so asked him to test

seems like rebar is bs to high fps scenario.

intel seems to have a bigger hit 25% loss


----------



## Emmett

ldt said:


> Can you help me understand what SP mean? Thanks


It is meant to be an indicator of chip/silicon quality. So my chip at SP 55 (LOW) will require more voltage at a
certain clock compared to someone with an SP of 65+ will need in some cases MUCH less voltage at the same
clock, so the higher SP the better.


----------



## i9forever

domdtxdissar said:


> You are really a strange man
> How tinted are your glasses ? I dont understand what you and seemingly only you are seeing !?
> 
> First we have the comparison in cinebench:
> 
> View attachment 2484603
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> View attachment 2484604
> 
> 
> Then we have F1 2020 since you link it and try to make a point out of it:
> 
> View attachment 2484605
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> View attachment 2484606
> 
> 
> 446 >431 right ???
> 
> And then we have all the other game benchmarks ive linked above.. How are you coming to your conclusions ? 😂
> Where are your rocketlake SotTR benches ?


Well about the F1... you use 3090 vs 3080, like you got 446 with 3090, vs 431 with 3080. Not a victory imo.


----------



## ldt

Emmett said:


> It is meant to be an indicator of chip/silicon quality. So my chip at SP 55 (LOW) will require more voltage at a
> certain clock compared to someone with an SP of 65+ will need in some cases MUCH less voltage at the same
> clock, so the higher SP the better.


Thanks you !


----------



## PhoenixMDA

ldt said:


> Can you help me understand what SP mean? Thanks


It´s like he had say, but also as example between 2 SP 80 it givés difference in quality.Like my SP83, the chip is better than the most SP90+ chip´s.
Sometimes it give also low SP, which goes like SP90+, in HWL one have a SP50 the chip was like SP99.


----------



## Nizzen

Finally home!

New package has arrived!


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

That box is gorgeous as hell..lol..only the i9..

edit..I just got a boner staring at the box..😖🍌


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Finally home!
> 
> New package has arrived!
> 
> View attachment 2484620


hope ure rams as good as clockemup. 
think his 4900c19 < 1.6v right cause he was doing [email protected]


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> hope ure rams as good as clockemup.
> think his 4900c19 < 1.6v right cause he was doing [email protected]


Hope so


----------



## Spiriva

Have you guys tried oc the 11900k yet? I read somewhere that up too 1.5V was okay to use for daily use, is that true tho?
Like All core 52 or 53 and 1.48v, or is it better to just let "Adaptive Boost Technology" do its thing?

I got the Hero xiii & 11900k, but i havent tried it yet, gotta wait till the weekend before i have time to drain the loop and put the 11900k under water.


----------



## Rpro

[QUOTE = "Spiriva, сообщение: 28766828, участник: 416143"]
Ребята, вы уже пробовали oc 11900k? 1,5 В тоже можно использовать для повседневного использования, правда ли?
Как All core 52 или 53 и 1,48 В, или лучше просто технологии Adaptive Boost делать свое дело?

У меня есть Hero xiii и 11900k, но я еще не пробовал, нужно подождать до выходных, прежде чем у меня будет время осушить шлейф и опустить 11900k под воду.
[/ ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]
Пакет фотографий? SN Batch


----------



## cstkl1

Spiriva said:


> Have you guys tried oc the 11900k yet? I read somewhere that up too 1.5V was okay to use for daily use, is that true tho?
> Like All core 52 or 53 and 1.48v, or is it better to just let "Adaptive Boost Technology" do its thing?
> 
> I got the Hero xiii & 11900k, but i havent tried it yet, gotta wait till the weekend before i have time to drain the loop and put the 11900k under water.


based what i have seen
5ghz vmin most ppl will be 1.2x


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> errr this is not a convince you to buy intel thread bro.
> 
> lol. its where adults figure out flaws and get them fix thread or post potential of the cpu/ram/mobo if they choose to
> and help those who has issues with their setup.
> 
> infact this if u didnt know both of us just now was just messing around. the issue was rebar on F1 2020.
> wasnt sure rkl has problem with rebar. and hence nvidia slide demo was 5950x...so asked him to test
> 
> seems like rebar is bs to high fps scenario.
> 
> intel seems to have a bigger hit 25% loss


Thanks for explaining!!

I'm still looking forward to seeing the result in games, there are no decent reviews of the 11900K in oc!


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> Thanks for explaining!!
> 
> I'm still looking forward to seeing the result in games, there are no decent reviews of the 11900K in oc!


There is.
simple selling point

DO YOU WANT a WORKING USB??
DO U WANT FULL CSTATE??
DO U WANT NO WHEA BSOD??
DO U WANT NO WHEA OR UNEXPLAINABLE GAME CRASHES??
DO U WANT A STABILITY LIKE NONE OTHER??

btw
i dont recommend RKL as a pure productivity cpu.
for that go get a cheap 10980xe or 10900 non K.. they are so cheap atm. or even 3950x with b550.
as for zen 3.. if it works it works. if it doesnt it doesnt.. if it works now and doesnt later.. be ZEN.


----------



## IronAge

aerotracks`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 16584 cb with a Core i7 11700K


The Core i7 11700K @ 5101.2MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. aerotracksranks #100 worldwide and #6 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org





First result of a 11700K on a Gigabyte Aorus Tachyon owned by a m8, HS is a Corsair H110i GT.


----------



## aznguyen316

cstkl1 said:


> 1:2 default mrc is 1T (auto)
> 
> setting 2T actually ends up like 4T


Thanks. I set to 1T. 

Anyone have suggestions on timings to get 4266 stable? It boots and benchmarks fine at 4266 with the same timings at 4000 and using 1.5V with 1.35 IO and 1.25 SA. however, karhu immediately errors within a minute or two. 4000c17-19-39 and timings I had shown are karhu stable. 

I’ve tested 18-22-42 and loosened tRFC and some other timings but no luck so far. I’ve been referencing the GitHub memory overclocking guide a ton. Maybe I should do auto secondary and tertiary timings and find stable primary timings first and work through again. 

This is bdie (though lower binned since xmp is 3200c15). Paired with z590 Strix E and 11700k. Otherwise I’ll keep 4000c17 and focus on cpu Oc next


----------



## Nitrius

Just quick question regarding RAM overclocking and 11th gen, is the consensus here to set loose timings and try to get as much MHz out of the sticks as possible the best way to increase performance here?


----------



## Emmett

A little better.


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks. I set to 1T.
> 
> Anyone have suggestions on timings to get 4266 stable? It boots and benchmarks fine at 4266 with the same timings at 4000 and using 1.5V with 1.35 IO and 1.25 SA. however, karhu immediately errors within a minute or two. 4000c17-19-39 and timings I had shown are karhu stable.
> 
> I’ve tested 18-22-42 and loosened tRFC and some other timings but no luck so far. I’ve been referencing the GitHub memory overclocking guide a ton. Maybe I should do auto secondary and tertiary timings and find stable primary timings first and work through again.
> 
> This is bdie (though lower binned since xmp is 3200c15). Paired with z590 Strix E and 11700k. Otherwise I’ll keep 4000c17 and focus on cpu Oc next


wrong sa/io


----------



## cstkl1

Nitrius said:


> Just quick question regarding RAM overclocking and 11th gen, is the consensus here to set loose timings and try to get as much MHz out of the sticks as possible the best way to increase performance here?


toppc and hicookie will love that. 

but nope. basics. tighten turnaround. then secondary based on turnaround math. 
secondary are all about twcl.


----------



## Spiriva

cstkl1 said:


> There is.
> simple selling point
> 
> DO YOU WANT a WORKING USB??
> DO U WANT FULL CSTATE??
> DO U WANT NO WHEA BSOD??
> DO U WANT NO WHEA OR UNEXPLAINABLE GAME CRASHES??
> DO U WANT A STABILITY LIKE NONE OTHER??
> 
> btw
> i dont recommend RKL as a pure productivity cpu.
> for that go get a cheap 10980xe or 10900 non K.. they are so cheap atm. or even 3950x with b550.
> as for zen 3.. if it works it works. if it doesnt it doesnt.. if it works now and doesnt later.. be ZEN.


This was my experiance with the 5950x. It crashed, it rebooted, it rebooted in bios, it gave WHEA errors. It was the worse crap i ever tired.
Never again AMD.


----------



## Nizzen

First test of the day of 11900k:
CB23 5300mhz all core
2x8GB b-die 4533c17 (edit Was wrong speed) Update soon 50k read LOL
Power savings on LOL


----------



## Spiriva

Nizzen said:


> First test of the day of 11900k:
> CB23 5300mhz all core
> 2x8GB b-die 4533c17
> Power savings on LOL


How much volt did you use on the cpu for 5.3 all cores ?


----------



## Nizzen

Spiriva said:


> How much volt did you use on the cpu for 5.3 all cores ?


1,46v LLC8


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> 1,46v LLC8


Yeet.
One of the rare SP 90 chips, I assume?


----------



## Nizzen

My team extreem 4500c18 b-die works pretty good on Apex z490 and 11900k 
BCLK 125mhz

















No hickups yet


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Yeet.
> One of the rare SP 90 chips, I assume?


SP is changing every time I try a new bios. Now it's 76 LOL. One bios was 54


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> SP is changing every time I try a new bios. Now it's 76 LOL. One bios was 54


If you have extra thermal paste, unplug the system, take the CPU out of the socket, wait 1 minute then insert it back in.
It will say "New CPU Detected" and the SP will change again.
Then reboot and the SP will change once again and should remain there.

@cstkl1 said its something to do with the system running LLC level 7 the very first time when you install a new CPU. 
Have you ever noticed, after a new CPU insertion, or a "deep" CMOS clear (1 minute power off unplug, then pressing clear CMOS for 30 seconds), it will show Loadline Calibration: level 7 on the very first BIOS boot? Then it changes to level 2 after?


----------



## Nizzen

Fresh restart CB R20 Multi:
Must be close to Ryzen 5800x soon?


----------



## Nizzen

Some asked for Temperature:
1x360 raidator silent fans and EK block.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Does anyone have 0×39 BIOS for M12A yet?


----------



## Nizzen

Rena Ryugu said:


> Does anyone have 0×39 BIOS for M12A yet?


So what is that? 0098 bios looks like it's VERY good


----------



## aznguyen316

Nizzen said:


> SP is changing every time I try a new bios. Now it's 76 LOL. One bios was 54


When you get a chance mind sharing the VF curve? Would like to compare with the other 11900K that was posted with sp55.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Nizzen said:


> So what is that? 0098 bios looks like it's VERY good


Could you give me the link of 0098 BIOS please? I'd like to try that out.


----------



## encrypted11

Taking maybe 20 seconds to POST any normal at 4800 mem? (MRC fastboot disabled) 

DJR DR Klevvs 16G x2 B1 PCB. Z590I Strix.


----------



## Nizzen

encrypted11 said:


> Taking maybe 20 seconds to POST any normal at 4800 mem? (MRC fastboot disabled)
> 
> DJR DR Klevvs 16G x2. Z590I Strix.


She needs to train 

Tip of the day: Set Vccio, Vccsa and mem vccio manual 

Vccio 1.05c
Vccsa 1.25v
Vccio Mem oc 1.35-1.45 (depends on how high you will go) 1.45 is enough for 5866mhz


----------



## Nizzen

Rena Ryugu said:


> Could you give me the link of 0098 BIOS please? I'd like to try that out.











ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0098.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## tomwarren

Nizzen said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-0098.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Awesome. Do you have anything newer than 0704 for the ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO? Thanks!


----------



## Nizzen

tomwarren said:


> Awesome. Do you have anything newer than 0704 for the ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO? Thanks!


0704 is the last. Only Apex and Extreme got the "special" bios love from Shamino


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> 0704 is the last. Only Apex and Extreme got the "special" bios love from Shamino


I didn't see the extreme 0098 bios posted anywhere. Is there a link?


----------



## tomwarren

Nizzen said:


> 0704 is the last. Only Apex and Extreme got the "special" bios love from Shamino


Aww damn, thanks anyways


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> I didn't see the extreme 0098 bios posted anywhere. Is there a link?











ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-0098.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-0098.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Oh no wonder, these are for the 12, not 13.


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Oh no wonder, these are for the 12, not 13.


Sorry, you didn't specify


----------



## mount333

Nizzen said:


> My team extreem 4500c18 b-die works pretty good on Apex z490 and 11900k
> BCLK 125mhz
> View attachment 2484689
> 
> View attachment 2484690
> 
> 
> No hickups yet
> View attachment 2484692


VCCSA? is it possible this oc daily without any problems? thank you very much.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Sorry, you didn't specify


try again 3866c14.. this i am curious

so u find 11900k imc better than 11700k

btw mine is sp76..


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> F1 2020 High , TAA Checkered, AF None, Australia, Dry, Cam:Cycle : 1080p
> Stock Cpu, Stock Strix 3080, 3866C14 1:1
> 
> Rebar = 269 FPS
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rebar Disabled = 388
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm still trying to figure this out.. so just wanna see is it Zen exclusive or what..


Got 128 FPS average in Watch dogs:Legion Benchmark at 1080p Ultra, Ray Tracing disabled, DLSS Off, with rebar disabled (180 FPS max)
117 FPS average with Rebar enabled (171 FPS max).

..............

With Ray Tracing on Ultra, FPS was identical for both Rebar and off (87 FPS).


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Got 128 FPS average in Watch dogs:Legion Benchmark at 1080p Ultra, Ray Tracing disabled, DLSS Off, with rebar disabled (180 FPS max)
> 117 FPS average with Rebar enabled (171 FPS max).
> 
> ..............
> 
> With Ray Tracing on Ultra, FPS was identical for both Rebar and off (87 FPS).


eh. was told rebar works best on rt/dlss. 

so all this just a fud??


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> She needs to train
> 
> Tip of the day: Set Vccio, Vccsa and mem vccio manual
> 
> Vccio 1.05c
> Vccsa 1.25v
> Vccio Mem oc 1.35-1.45 (depends on how high you will go) 1.45 is enough for 5866mhz


Yep after watching Skatterbencher video I realized I was applying waaay too much to my VCCIO as a bad habit carry over from SKL. Rolled back to 1.050v and now I can use 3733Mhz CL15 1:1 tuned with 1.25v SA/VCCIO Mem OC. Will start messing around with 1:2 later but I need to get new sticks for that. Trying to push 4x8gb 4400Mhz CL19 B-Die GSkill sticks seems to stop at 4266 CL15. I tried 4533 and it was no go last night but I didn't go high enough on VCCIO Mem I think. Maybe I'll pull 2 sticks and try again.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

Just putting my results in here in case anyone finds them useful, and in case I forget what I ended up stable with when I inevitably reflash my bios.

11900k [email protected] LLC7. 
MB: Asus Maximus Hero XIII
BIOS: 0704 beta

I haven't really messed with any other settings, other than XMP profile 1 and cranking my power limits per usual since the plan is to have this as a daily driver OC and I'm not going for any benchmark targets.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> eh. was told rebar works best on rt/dlss.
> 
> so all this just a fud??


Probably beta support is OP.
Maybe why Asus "Improved Re-bar" support (first in 2004 Bios in M12E) to allow you to turn on and off Re-bar directly, rather than having it on all the time.
I guess the game has to be coded to use it properly.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> Yep after watching Skatterbencher video I realized I was applying waaay too much to my VCCIO as a bad habit carry over from SKL. Rolled back to 1.050v and now I can use 3733Mhz CL15 1:1 tuned with 1.25v SA/VCCIO Mem OC. Will start messing around with 1:2 later but I need to get new sticks for that. Trying to push 4x8gb 4400Mhz CL19 B-Die GSkill sticks seems to stop at 4266 CL15. I tried 4533 and it was no go last night but I didn't go high enough on VCCIO Mem I think. Maybe I'll pull 2 sticks and try again.


What did those dual rank sticks go up to on your Z490?
Didn't you get 4400 or higher with them at (unknown) timings? 
I tried 4533 17/17/39 on my year 2020 (Feb 2020) 2x16 GB Gskill sticks on the M13E (Z590) and memtest86 in BIOS reported errors at 1.6v VDIMM. Didn't matter what i had mem vccio set to. Then I gave up.

4266 16/16/36 gave no memtest86 errors but Prime95 Large FFT errored out. 16/17/37 was no errors though. (1.5v vdimm).

Maybe it's because of the auto Command rate setting 1T??


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> There is.
> simple selling point
> 
> DO YOU WANT a WORKING USB??
> DO U WANT FULL CSTATE??
> DO U WANT NO WHEA BSOD??
> DO U WANT NO WHEA OR UNEXPLAINABLE GAME CRASHES??
> DO U WANT A STABILITY LIKE NONE OTHER??
> 
> btw
> i dont recommend RKL as a pure productivity cpu.
> for that go get a cheap 10980xe or 10900 non K.. they are so cheap atm. or even 3950x with b550.
> as for zen 3.. if it works it works. if it doesnt it doesnt.. if it works now and doesnt later.. be ZEN.


Tbf, I haven't had any issues you described with my 5950x as well. No sound issues either (related to the usb issues).

Definitely an odd issue, but is well in the minority


Falkentyne said:


> Probably beta support is OP.
> Maybe why Asus "Improved Re-bar" support (first in 2004 Bios in M12E) to allow you to turn on and off Re-bar directly, rather than having it on all the time.
> I guess the game has to be coded to use it properly.


Nvidia claims they just have game profiles loaded in the driver and if the game isn't there, it's not used. Shouldn't need to manually disable unless you don't want it on in a game that supports it.


----------



## cstkl1

@domdtxdissar
5|cache stock , 3080 @ 2100/21, 5066 CL20 DR. daily



bro been testing few games i really find this nvidia claim of improvement on rebar a fud
can u test it on the games they said and not sure there's exact details reso etc on their site..
but they used a 5950x...

the penalty on RKL is bad when rebar is screwed up. Not sure 10900k suffers the same as hmm i really dont want to flash my M12E bios ...its running perfect atm.


----------



## FatedWolf

Having a hard time figuring out how to limit my cpu's max voltage draw.
11700k
Gigabyte z590 aorus elite
I've tried fixed but it's still climbing above what I set, and on adaptive it's great during idle, but pulls up to 1.5 under load (Stock boost but boost limits disabled).

I'd really like to get my voltage down lower, since I'm only clocking up to 5ghz boost.


----------



## cstkl1

FatedWolf said:


> Having a hard time figuring out how to limit my cpu's max voltage draw.
> 11700k
> Gigabyte z590 aorus elite
> I've tried fixed but it's still climbing above what I set, and on adaptive it's great during idle, but pulls up to 1.5 under load (Stock boost but boost limits disabled).
> 
> I'd really like to get my voltage down lower, since I'm only clocking up to 5ghz boost.


Guide for 5ghz on any board

set MAX LLC
set vcore from 1.2-1.3v
test FFT 80 min max, FFT in place all avx disable.
once u find the vmin.. remember it
now leave vcore auto. set ure 5ghz.. and then try to find the best loadline that gives u that vmin at the lowest temp.

asus 5ghz seems to be the 4.8vid in v/f around there...that sp9x dude most prob 1.15-1.2v


----------



## Talon2016

Spiriva said:


> This was my experiance with the 5950x. It crashed, it rebooted, it rebooted in bios, it gave WHEA errors. It was the worse crap i ever tired.
> Never again AMD.


I literally laughed when I read this. Head on over to r/AMD if you want to read about all the WHEA errors, continued USB issues even after AGESA update. It's hilarious. No thanks, I'll take my high power use and 14nm all day. RKL so far for me has been the most stable platform I've ever used and bodes well for Alder Lake launch late this year.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> I literally laughed when I read this. Head on over to r/AMD if you want to read about all the WHEA errors, continued USB issues even after AGESA update. It's hilarious. No thanks, I'll take my high power use and 14nm all day. RKL so far for me has been the most stable platform I've ever used and bodes well for Alder Lake launch late this year.


its refreshing right. 
i havent had a single game crash.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> I literally laughed when I read this. Head on over to r/AMD if you want to read about all the WHEA errors, continued USB issues even after AGESA update. It's hilarious. No thanks, I'll take my high power use and 14nm all day. RKL so far for me has been the most stable platform I've ever used and bodes well for Alder Lake launch late this year.


Talon did you see my message?


----------



## encrypted11

Nizzen said:


> She needs to train
> 
> Tip of the day: Set Vccio, Vccsa and mem vccio manual
> 
> Vccio 1.05c
> Vccsa 1.25v
> Vccio Mem oc 1.35-1.45 (depends on how high you will go) 1.45 is enough for 5866mhz



Trying to figure out RKL.
My DR DJRs might be good for just 4533 pretty close on passing 1hr google stressapptest, dimm error'd around 30 min mark- . 
I'm still unfamiliar with DJR scaling and timings, I last OC'd A1 PCB SR B Dies on CFL.

Wondering if the MSI Unify ITX with SMT DIMMs are any good, have a Vision D Z590I coming in.
The strix ITX is pretty bad in clearing CLC AIOs from the plastic shield and vertically stacked M.2/onboard audio (single orientation only). I hope one of the other boards will work a little better.


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> Trying to figure out RKL.
> My DR DJRs might be good for just 4533 pretty close on passing 1hr google stressapptest, dimm error'd around 30 min mark- .
> I'm still unfamiliar with DJR scaling and timings, I last OC'd A1 PCB SR B Dies on CFL.
> 
> Wondering if the MSI Unify ITX with SMT DIMMs are any good, have a Vision D Z590I coming in.
> The strix ITX is pretty bad in clearing CLC AIOs from the plastic shield and vertically stacked M.2/onboard audio (single orientation only). I hope one of the other boards will work a little better.


the apex/extreme and suspect hero

they forgot gpu now has backplate.
very narrow to press down the latch to remove the gpu without scratching the backplate with a sharp thin screw.

safest is tedious which is remove the heatsink above it ( the gen 4 nvme) and then remove the gpu.

nice cpu btw.


----------



## MrFox

cstkl1 said:


> There is.
> simple selling point
> 
> DO YOU WANT a WORKING USB??
> DO U WANT FULL CSTATE??
> DO U WANT NO WHEA BSOD??
> DO U WANT NO WHEA OR UNEXPLAINABLE GAME CRASHES??
> DO U WANT A STABILITY LIKE NONE OTHER??
> 
> btw
> i dont recommend RKL as a pure productivity cpu.
> for that go get a cheap 10980xe or 10900 non K.. they are so cheap atm. or even 3950x with b550.
> as for zen 3.. if it works it works. if it doesnt it doesnt.. if it works now and doesnt later.. be ZEN.





Spiriva said:


> This was my experiance with the 5950x. It crashed, it rebooted, it rebooted in bios, it gave WHEA errors. It was the worse crap i ever tired.
> Never again AMD.





Talon2016 said:


> I literally laughed when I read this. Head on over to r/AMD if you want to read about all the WHEA errors, continued USB issues even after AGESA update. It's hilarious. No thanks, I'll take my high power use and 14nm all day. RKL so far for me has been the most stable platform I've ever used and bodes well for Alder Lake launch late this year.





cstkl1 said:


> its refreshing right.
> i havent had a single game crash.


There has been nothing but an endless stream of rubbish from AMD (CPU and GPU) for more than a decade.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

encrypted11 said:


> Trying to figure out RKL.
> My DR DJRs might be good for just 4533 pretty close on passing 1hr google stressapptest, dimm error'd around 30 min mark- .
> I'm still unfamiliar with DJR scaling and timings, I last OC'd A1 PCB SR B Dies on CFL.
> 
> Wondering if the MSI Unify ITX with SMT DIMMs are any good, have a Vision D Z590I coming in.
> The strix ITX is pretty bad in clearing CLC AIOs from the plastic shield and vertically stacked M.2/onboard audio (single orientation only). I hope one of the other boards will work a little better.


Terrible VRM temp on Z590I Unify


----------



## Ex0duS5150

For what its worth, on 703 BIOS I7 11700k


----------



## cstkl1

Ex0duS5150 said:


> For what its worth, on 703 BIOS I7 11700k


not worth anything if no v/f


----------



## Ex0duS5150

cstkl1 said:


> not worth anything if no v/f


Huh? I just booted it up for the 4th time. Also I got better RAM on the way. I saw others posting just the SP number. I understand it might not mean much.


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> What did those dual rank sticks go up to on your Z490?
> Didn't you get 4400 or higher with them at (unknown) timings?
> I tried 4533 17/17/39 on my year 2020 (Feb 2020) 2x16 GB Gskill sticks on the M13E (Z590) and memtest86 in BIOS reported errors at 1.6v VDIMM. Didn't matter what i had mem vccio set to. Then I gave up.
> 
> 4266 16/16/36 gave no memtest86 errors but Prime95 Large FFT errored out. 16/17/37 was no errors though. (1.5v vdimm).
> 
> Maybe it's because of the auto Command rate setting 1T??


I ran mine at a super conservative 4000mhz CL16 with just 1.4vdimm. I did at one point use 4400mhz but it required high voltage on the SA/IO so I backed it off and struck a balance of clock/cas for low voltage. 

Let me go retest 1:2 and get back to you. What SA/Mem IO does 4533 take on your M13E?


----------



## shamino1978

2101 *Z490*








ROG-STRIX-Z490-E-GAMING-ASUS-2101.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2101.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-2101.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-2101.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Ex0duS5150

cstkl1 said:


> not worth anything if no v/f


My bad









F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is on the way


----------



## Spiriva

I hooked it up outside the loop with an old corsair AIO to see that the cpu worked fine.
No problems yet 










An old GTX 1080 was the only card i had with a air cooler on


----------



## Ex0duS5150

Spiriva said:


> I hooked it up outside the loop with an old corsair AIO to see that the cpu worked fine.
> No problems yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An old GTX 1080 was the only card i had with a air cooler on


LOL! very nice. Im poor so Ive only got a 570 laying around


----------



## cstkl1

Ex0duS5150 said:


> My bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is on the way


thats a good cpu.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

cstkl1 said:


> thats a good cpu.


Yes sir I know. I'm really excited now.


----------



## menko2

Ex0duS5150 said:


> My bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is on the way


Really looking for your results with the new ram kit.

Can you make gaming benchmarks? All reviews put bad the 11900k comparing to the 10900k (i don't count AMD cause I won't change to AMD for sure).

IPC uplift is clear but gaming is all over the place in reviews.


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> I ran mine at a super conservative 4000mhz CL16 with just 1.4vdimm. I did at one point use 4400mhz but it required high voltage on the SA/IO so I backed it off and struck a balance of clock/cas for low voltage.
> 
> Let me go retest 1:2 and get back to you. What SA/Mem IO does 4533 take on your M13E?


if fully hci needs 1.4 on sa, 1.3 on io


menko2 said:


> Really looking for your results with the new ram kit.
> 
> Can you make gaming benchmarks? All reviews put bad the 11900k comparing to the 10900k (i don't count AMD cause I won't change to AMD for sure).
> 
> IPC uplift is clear but gaming is all over the place in reviews.


i gonna spend the weekend and see why reviewers are struggling

some is idiocy i seen them do is 4dpc instead of DR 2dpc

the problem is none of them are transparent on settings used.

one thing though. the idiocy to use test setupdr 4dpc.. is just shows how stupid reviewers are.
u think zen 1/2/3 was launch ppl use these kits ?


----------



## Nizzen

Is this good for a 8 core i SOTR?


----------



## Ex0duS5150

menko2 said:


> Really looking for your results with the new ram kit.
> 
> Can you make gaming benchmarks? All reviews put bad the 11900k comparing to the 10900k (i don't count AMD cause I won't change to AMD for sure).
> 
> IPC uplift is clear but gaming is all over the place in reviews.


I have a really crappy set of RAM right now but when I get the new Kit, I will do testing and gaming benches as this is what I want the rig for mainly. 
Also my main rig is still up and running I need to salvage the PSU and ASUS strix 1080ti for now before I can start fully testing the games.
As far as the memory OCs go, I am a complete n00b and have some hefty reading to do. These forums help SO MUCH! Also my Kit is not rated for anything above 4000Mhz so we shall see. These guys here make me think of engineers, I have a lot of reading to do.. LOLz


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> Is this good for a 8 core i SOTR?
> View attachment 2484740


This is worse than my 10700k with 5.3/4.9 and 4400C16 dual rank bdie. Note the cpu game.


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> This is worse than my 10700k with 5.3/4.9 and 4400C16 dual rank bdie. Note the cpu game.
> View attachment 2484741


It's slower than my 10900k too. Maybe I have to tune the stock windows on my benchtable 

There is some extra performance in Dual rank too in SOTR.


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> It's slower than my 10900k too. Maybe I have to tune the stock windows on my benchtable
> 
> There is some extra performance in Dual rank too in SOTR.


What settings did you run on the 11900k cpu and mem?


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> What settings did you run on the 11900k cpu and mem?


5250mhz core
5000mhz singlerank memory


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> 5250mhz core
> 5000mhz singlerank memory


It isn’t looking good for rocketlake sadly, not sure how much performance can be squeezed out but it’s slower than a 10700k in this title which is worrying.


----------



## weleh

Nizzen said:


> Is this good for a 8 core i SOTR?
> View attachment 2484740


Much slower than my ****ty whea bsoding no sound usb issues 5800X


----------



## IronAge

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Huh? I just booted it up for the 4th time. Also I got better RAM on the way. I saw others posting just the SP number. I understand it might not mean much.


Very likely it is one of the better ones.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Is this good for a 8 core i SOTR?
> View attachment 2484740


sotr buggy bro...
so i dont even see anything on it...

480p, 720p, 1080p same fps


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> 5250mhz core
> 5000mhz singlerank memory


Have you tried 800x600 lowest by chance?


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> Is this good for a 8 core i SOTR?
> View attachment 2484740


This is my score with:

Z590 Maximus Hero xiii
[email protected] all core 
2x8gb 3900mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.45v
3090 Kingpin

My score is pretty bad comparing to others with similar setups no? Even i lost to your 11900k.


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> This is my score with:
> 
> Z590 Maximus Hero xiii
> [email protected] all core
> 2x8gb 3900mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.45v
> 3090 Kingpin
> 
> My score is pretty bad comparing to others with similar setups no? Even i lost to your 11900k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2484757


Sottr loves tuned ram and dual rank bdie. Subtimings etc all tuned


----------



## IronAge

Really insane.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

its like 2nd/3rd christmas in here...


----------



## menko2

YaqY said:


> Sottr loves tuned ram and dual rank bdie. Subtimings etc all tuned


I tunned the subtimings. Can't remember cause it's been some time. I'll check them but I'm with single rank.

What are the most important subtiming values so I can post them?


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> I tunned the subtimings. Can't remember cause it's been some time. I'll check them but I'm with single rank.
> 
> What are the most important subtiming values so I can post them?


Send a picture of asrock timing configurator, if you have 2x8 bdie you should be able to do 4200 + on that board as well.


----------



## menko2

YaqY said:


> Send a picture of asrock timing configurator, if you have 2x8 bdie you should be able to do 4200 + on that board as well.


I'm not that sure if I tweaked them now. In my other system i did but I don't have screenshots. ASRock timing 4.0.4 doesn't work (says something about a code violation).

G.skill 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.35v is the stock ram.

Im running the kit [email protected] with this timings (sorry for the pictures taken with my phone).


----------



## YaqY

Recommend some manual tuning, this guide is an amazing place to start integralfx/MemTestHelper . I'd be aiming for around 4400 or so on 2x8 on that board and cpu, should be very achievable.
Ask here if you have any questions *Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread .


----------



## IronAge

@menko2

Try an USB stick and F12 for Screenshots in UEFI, we can see the man in the mirror.


----------



## roooo

IronAge said:


> @menko2
> 
> Try an USB Stick and F12 for Screenshots in UEFI, your CPU has SP92, that's the best prediction for RKL i have seen yet.


As far as I understand, he's running a 10900k?


----------



## cstkl1

edit. 
lol. 
lurkers hate them.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> sotr buggy bro...
> so i dont even see anything on it...
> 
> 480p, 720p, 1080p same fps


It's not buggy, if you are testing 16:9 the CPU load is the same in synthetic cpu benchmark.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> It's not buggy, if you are testing 16:9 the CPU load is the same in synthetic cpu benchmark.


it is.. i dunno why ppl assume that i made that statement like just blurted it out of the sky or something

tested this over already on many diff cpu config.
the code path bad for RKL with the DX12 ever since the RT patch.
pre patch alll cpus still the same but u can see RKL finally working as intended. other cpus = after patch.. no diff.

anyway already stated this many time but if this is ure cup of tea as measurement .. go ahead..

also we are talking about a game that has issue with running fullscreen exclusive after the patch on rkl. no issue with cml


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I get in 720p 1080p etc the same CPU Score, with 8700k/9900k/10900k that i mean.

The graphic driver is important, there are difference between, its only possible to compare with the same driver.
Some older driver push the CPU FPS.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> what screwed up timings are those
> and why 3900C15??
> 
> Good
> 
> 2nd
> 4,4,265 or 280, auto auto, 65535 ( just max it out), 7,6,16,5,5,1,4,13
> 3rd
> auto, auto, auto, auto, 11,11,auto,auto, 24,20, reserved, reserved, 11,11,reserved v2,reserved v2,reserved,reserved
> txp = 4
> ppd = 0
> 
> Decent
> 2nd
> 4,4,265 or 280, auto auto, 65535 ( just max it out), 8,6,16,6,6,1,4,13
> 3rd
> auto, auto, auto, auto, 12,12,auto,auto, 25,20, reserved, reserved, 12,12,reserved v2,reserved v2,reserved,reserved
> txp = 4
> ppd = 0
> 
> reserved part
> DR= different rank
> DD= different dimm
> DD
> so if 4 dimm u need to set this to whatever can boot at lowest, if 2 dimm just use value 4
> DR
> same concept with DD if ures dual rank vs single rank.. single rank can set 4 dual rank set whatever can boot
> 
> reserved 2, part
> i recommend 7,7 or 8,8 for longer term stability


Ok so I have a total mess. I can't remember if I did the tweaking there.

Those timings you recommend are for the 3900mhz i have or for going up to around 4200-4400mhz?


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I get in 720p 1080p etc the same CPU Score, with 8700k/9900k/10900k that i mean.
> 
> The graphic driver is important, there are difference between, its only possible to compare with the same driver.
> Some older driver push the CPU FPS.


tried that all. even pirated it to check.
up to you anyway. 
my 10900k/3080 scales on steam and demo. no issue with fullscreen exclusive. 

plug da os to 11900k. it crashes cannot boot unless full screen exclusive disable 

theres more but seriously just tired explaining the extent i went with this..



menko2 said:


> Ok so I have a total mess. I can't remember if I did the tweaking there.
> 
> Those timings you recommend are for the 3900mhz i have or for going up to around 4200-4400mhz?


depend on your imc.
these are for bdies only ya.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I have steam Version, by me is like i have sayed.

RKL is very new...perhaps some Updates come, one game is also no statement for performance and often the graphic driver influence the results.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I have steam Version, by me is like i have sayed.
> 
> RKL is very new...perhaps some Updates come, on game is also no statement for performance and often the graphic driver influence the results.


nah not going to be updated. 
some issue also on zen 3 to some extent and they didnt bother


----------



## ViTosS

menko2 said:


> This is my score with:
> 
> Z590 Maximus Hero xiii
> [email protected] all core
> 2x8gb 3900mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.45v
> 3090 Kingpin
> 
> My score is pretty bad comparing to others with similar setups no? Even i lost to your 11900k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2484757


My result, it wasn't with everything lowest but it was already CPU bound, GPU was never at 90%+ usage, 9900k 5.0Ghz/4.6Ghz and [email protected] RAM SR with tight subtimings


----------



## IronAge

roooo said:


> As far as I understand, he's running a 10900k?


True missed that and edit, hopefully sb will get a golden RKL sample soon.


----------



## FlanK3r

PC setup: i9-11900K, SP72
Maximus XII Apex, HOF RAM 4000MHz B-die A1 kit 2x 8GB. ROG Ryujin 360 as cooler.



Few my results with Gear1 (strong IMC)


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> it is.. i dunno why ppl assume that i made that statement like just blurted it out of the sky or something
> 
> tested this over already on many diff cpu config.
> the code path bad for RKL with the DX12 ever since the RT patch.
> pre patch alll cpus still the same but u can see RKL finally working as intended. other cpus = after patch.. no diff.
> 
> anyway already stated this many time but if this is ure cup of tea as measurement .. go ahead..
> 
> also we are talking about a game that has issue with running fullscreen exclusive after the patch on rkl. no issue with cml


You keep stating SotTR is "buggy", or "using bad codepath for RKL", but you have still not explained why.

Why is SotTR buggy?
How does it manifest it's bugginess?
What does a "bad codepath for RKL" mean?

If SotTR has issues running exclusive full screen on RKL, but not on CML, doesn't that invalidate your previous statement that RKL is bug free?

I have never noticed any issues with SotTR benchmark apart from it not being perfectly representative of gaming performance, and the slightly higher reported CPU game performance while GPU bottlenecked.


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> You keep stating SotTR is "buggy", or "using bad codepath for RKL", but you have still not explained why.
> 
> Why is SotTR buggy?
> How does it manifest it's bugginess?
> What does a "bad codepath for RKL" mean?
> 
> If SotTR has issues running exclusive full screen on RKL, but not on CML, doesn't that invalidate your previous statement that RKL is bug free?
> 
> I have never noticed any issues with SotTR benchmark apart from it not being perfectly representative of gaming performance, and the slightly higher reported CPU game performance while GPU bottlenecked.


yes yes u TESTED a lot of cpus windows, diff versions of the game diff gpu diff ram. contacted the dev etc

yes u are the man


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> yes yes u TESTED a lot of cpus windows, diff versions of the game diff gpu diff ram. contacted the dev etc
> 
> yes u are the man


Have you contacted the developers?


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> Have you contacted the developers?


yes.
heck even intel knows.

btw how many ppl actually play this game..


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> yes.
> heck even intel knows.
> 
> btw how many ppl actually play this game..


I'm playing through it right now. I'm about three quarters of the way through.


----------



## cstkl1

watchdog legion
edit
nope it doesnt.. i just checked.. past was around the same.. 

 

AC V rebar.. it was always 85 and now its 94
but still looks like crap the drops









use the same conditions i normally played with during first two months of launch...


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> yes yes u TESTED a lot of cpus windows, diff versions of the game diff gpu diff ram. contacted the dev etc
> 
> yes u are the man


That doesn't answer my questions.

Why is SotTR buggy?
How does it manifest it's bugginess?
What does a "bad codepath for RKL" mean?

Since you have contacted Intel and Nixxes about these problems, it shouldn't be difficult to explain what these bugs are.


----------



## KyloRen

Hi guys, I got myself a 11700k with a z590 viii hero coming soon. 
I was searching around for 11700k overclocking guides and I asked a guy who did a youtube video on his rkl oc experience. I was wondering if somebody can also confirm these settings :
1. 11700k 5ghz all core oc is around 1.375v up to 1.4v+ depending on silicon quality from what I see around on forums. He got 11700k at 1.38v. 11900k is below 1.3v for 5ghz all oc because better bin.
2. He said Ring ratio oc on rkl not worth it due to way too much required voltage and best to keep stock. The guy said he could barely get stable 4.3ghz on his 11700k, and it seems to range up to 4.4/4.5ghz for others.
3. He said beyond 3200mhz ram gear 1 requires a lot of sa/io voltage. I thought the consensus for rkl was Gear 1 was okay up to around 3600mhz to 3733mhz. 
So what gear and frequency should I aim for then?


----------



## domdtxdissar

This is the fastest intel 8core ive seen in SotTR








270 fps average


> 10900k @5.5ghz, 2x16gb 4600c16, rtx 3090 2160mhz-2175mhz.
> 
> 5.2 cache. Sp104.
> 
> 1.35v llc8 or 1.55v llc6.


And no, "SotTR is not bugged for rocketlake", the architecture just sucks for gaming, period.
The only thing seemingly intel gen11 dont regress in compared to previous gen10 is aida64 bandwidth bench and Cinebench it seems. And i guess that's why those with the thickest tinted glasses only are benching those programs 😂

Btw lol at intel PR and the fanboys that have been complaining about Cinebench not being a "Real-World" bench for the past years, now they cant get enough of it it seems 

Remember these ?
















https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2019/09/2019-IFA-Intel-RWPE.pdf 

_edit_ 
Some more 











> We have already seen several instances in the past where Intel's presented benchmarks show its Core CPU family scoring huge leads against AMD Ryzen CPUs. This was only later to be found that most of the benchmarks used were tailored for Intel CPUs.* Intel also had to ask the press to stop relying on Cinebench and a range of other benchmarks for CPU comparison as they don't reflect actual user experiences while going onward to show benchmarks with huge discrepancies in test conditions. *


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> This is the fastest intel 8core ive seen in SotTR
> View attachment 2484772
> 
> 270 fps average
> 
> 
> And no, "SotTR is not bugged for rocketlake", the architecture just sucks for gaming, period.
> The only thing seemingly intel gen11 dont regress in compared to previous gen10 is aida64 bandwidth bench and Cinebench it seems. And i guess that's why those with the thickest tinted glasses only are benching those programs 😂
> 
> Btw lol at intel PR and the fanboys that have been complaining about Cinebench not being a "Real-World" bench for the past years, now they cant get enough of it it seems
> 
> Remember these ?
> View attachment 2484778
> 
> View attachment 2484779
> 
> https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2019/09/2019-IFA-Intel-RWPE.pdf


lucky u manage to post all that without bsod..


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> I ran mine at a super conservative 4000mhz CL16 with just 1.4vdimm. I did at one point use 4400mhz but it required high voltage on the SA/IO so I backed it off and struck a balance of clock/cas for low voltage.
> 
> Let me go retest 1:2 and get back to you. What SA/Mem IO does 4533 take on your M13E?


4533 is badly unstable even at 17/17/39 and 1.6v vdimm. It might be the 1T setting that auto command rate sets. I have not tried setting this setting manually. On Z490, my RAM was unstable with 1T even at XMP settings. At 2T, it did 4400 16/17/37 @ 1.5v if I used skews and RTL tweaking. 4533 was again badly unstable at 17/17/39.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> 4533 is badly unstable even at 17/17/39 and 1.6v vdimm. It might be the 1T setting that auto command rate sets. I have not tried setting this setting manually. On Z490, my RAM was unstable with 1T even at XMP settings. At 2T, it did 4400 16/17/37 @ 1.5v if I used skews and RTL tweaking. 4533 was again badly unstable at 17/17/39.


atleast u didnt have to unplug/plug back your kb/mouse even on unstable ram like poor old @domdtxdissar .


----------



## mount333

We need more gaming benchmarks!


domdtxdissar said:


> This is the fastest intel 8core ive seen in SotTR
> View attachment 2484772
> 
> 270 fps average
> 
> 
> And no, "SotTR is not bugged for rocketlake", the architecture just sucks for gaming, period.
> The only thing seemingly intel gen11 dont regress in compared to previous gen10 is aida64 bandwidth bench and Cinebench it seems. And i guess that's why those with the thickest tinted glasses only are benching those programs 😂
> 
> Btw lol at intel PR and the fanboys that have been complaining about Cinebench not being a "Real-World" bench for the past years, now they cant get enough of it it seems
> 
> Remember these ?
> View attachment 2484778
> 
> View attachment 2484779
> 
> https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2019/09/2019-IFA-Intel-RWPE.pdf
> 
> _edit_
> Some more
> View attachment 2484781


You need arguments about your statements. The 11600K performs considerably above 10600K, even in stock.


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> We need more gaming benchmarks!
> 
> You have to have arguments about your statements. The 11600K performs considerably above 10600K, even in stock.


he cant. cause he has to say a prayer type plug kb/mouse type, bsod, repeat..

lol


----------



## weleh

Arni90 said:


> That doesn't answer my questions.
> 
> Why is SotTR buggy?
> How does it manifest it's bugginess?
> What does a "bad codepath for RKL" mean?
> 
> Since you have contacted Intel and Nixxes about these problems, it shouldn't be difficult to explain what these bugs are.


Because it doesn't fit his narrative.

If it performs good on Intel = Good benchmark **** so good ***** lol so good
If it performs bad on Intel = *****, **** benchmark doesn't work, bad code, bad whatever insert reason lol doesn't fit my narrative lolol ahaha lol alaahadshdh lolo lalal oal


----------



## Nizzen

weleh said:


> Because it doesn't fit his narrative.
> 
> If it performs good on Intel = Good benchmark *** so good **** lol so good
> If it performs bad on Intel = ***, **** benchmark doesn't work, bad code, bad whatever insert reason lol doesn't fit my narrative lolol ahaha lol alaahadshdh lolo lalal oal


Why not open up a new thread about this? This doesn't belong in this thread 
Get a room 

/Nizzen


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> omg.
> 
> lets forward that statement to jdec ddr4 documentation which came out in 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he just reiterated part of the jdec ddr4 spec
> 
> guess reading is not everybody forte. nevermind watch a video.


Could you make some benchmarks in games? 720p low.


----------



## MACHWC

Check out the SP on this chip! I'll give you 2 guesses as to why it ultimately doesn't matter.


----------



## cstkl1

what else did amd mythically invented??


MACHWC said:


> Check out the SP on this chip! I'll give you 2 guesses as to why it ultimately doesn't matter.
> 
> View attachment 2484795


norm we have seen it when CML was launched
your v/f bugged
i had sp 2xx on my 10900k.
have to reseat the cpu if not the auto vcore for loadline wont work.


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> Could you make some benchmarks in games? 720p low.


AC Valhalla , Watchdog Legion , FC5 , FC New Dawn, Warhammer : Vermintide 2, F1 2020, and NFS heat on this ssd


----------



## Nizzen

First boot @ 5333mhz memory:
stock settings


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> AC Valhalla , Watchdog Legion , FC5 , FC New Dawn, Warhammer : Vermintide 2, F1 2020, and NFS heat on this ssd


Pls, FC New Dawn, WD Legion and AC Vallhala, 720p low.


----------



## Nizzen

5600c22 booted easy


----------



## FlanK3r

@Nizzen what type of kit is it? Im really thinking now about some DJR, but I have not much money yet (flat, I bought also 11900KF yesterday for OC fun , so my CPU colection is bigger and bigger. Ussually I do not sell older chips, all for colection)


----------



## Nizzen

FlanK3r said:


> @Nizzen what type of kit is it? Im really thinking now about some DJR, but I have not much money yet (flat, I bought also 11900KF yesterday for OC fun , so my CPU colection is bigger and bigger. Ussually I do not sell older chips, all for colection)


TT 4600c19 GX2


----------



## auraofjason

Hey guys, just noticed something weird. I'm using a z490 hero with the new 2101 bios and when I put my 11900k in it, my top pci-e slot runs at 8x max (in bios and gpu-z etc). When I put my 10700k back into it, it runs at 16x fine. 

Is anyone able to check if this happens on their z490? I'm not sure if it's just an issue with the beta bios, or maybe my 11900k is defective?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> TT 4600c19 GX2


klevv bolt xr 4kc19 runs 4800c19-25-25 @1.6v

usd 110


----------



## cstkl1

auraofjason said:


> Hey guys, just noticed something weird. I'm using a z490 hero with the new 2101 bios and when I put my 11900k in it, my top pci-e slot runs at 8x max (in bios and gpu-z etc). When I put my 10700k back into it, it runs at 16x fine.
> 
> Is anyone able to check if this happens on their z490? I'm not sure if it's just an issue with the beta bios, or maybe my 11900k is defective?


thats correct. z490 hero supports 8x gen 4


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> klevv bolt xr 4kc19 runs 4800c19-25-25 @1.6v
> 
> usd 110


Too slow for my liking


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 5600c22 booted easy
> View attachment 2484800


its fun right.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Too slow for my liking


yeah thats my thought when i saw c22..
lol

[email protected] semi stable atm..


----------



## auraofjason

cstkl1 said:


> thats correct. z490 hero supports 8x gen 4


Ah I didn't realize that, thanks!


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> Pls, FC New Dawn, WD Legion and AC Vallhala, 720p low.


Stock cpu, Stock Strix 3080, 4800C19


----------



## i9forever

Well, my build is done, I am satisfied  I will do some tests during this weekend.


----------



## cstkl1

i9forever said:


> Well, my build is done, I am satisfied  I will do some tests during this weekend.


nice v/f


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> Stock cpu, Stock Strix 3080, 4800C19


Pleace post Aida64 mem bench <3


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Pleace post Aida64 mem bench <3
> 
> View attachment 2484813


i havent?? 
?? later bro. trying to get this ram 5k c19
dunno why but not able to do this just bugs me.


----------



## auraofjason

So I'm still new to this here's my 11900k, is this right? From what I've read this is supposed to be really good?


----------



## Nizzen

auraofjason said:


> So I'm still new to this here's my 11900k, is this right? From what I've read this is supposed to be really good?
> 
> View attachment 2484816


This is epic 

Congratulation


----------



## encrypted11

@cstkl1 are Bolt XRs DJR-VKC (2666 Downbin JEDEC) or DJR-XNC (3200 JEDEC) on thaiphoon?

I have 4 Bolt Xs DR they are VKC


----------



## MACHWC

auraofjason said:


> So I'm still new to this here's my 11900k, is this right? From what I've read this is supposed to be really good?


Very good! Can you take a picture of the sticker on the CPU box? I just want to see your Batch #. Thanks!


----------



## nievz

It looks like there isn't much to gain with fast memory?


----------



## SuperMumrik

nievz said:


> It looks like there isn't much to gain with fast memory?
> 
> View attachment 2484818


That's not even close to fast memory


----------



## Nizzen

nievz said:


> It looks like there isn't much to gain with fast memory?
> 
> View attachment 2484818


This is from a noobtuber, I can smell it


----------



## aznguyen316

Awesome chip @auraofjason. Hope you plan to OC it.


----------



## auraofjason

MACHWC said:


> Very good! Can you take a picture of the sticker on the CPU box? I just want to see your Batch #. Thanks!


Thanks guys! And yeah the batch # says X102K522.


----------



## aznguyen316

cstkl1 said:


> Guide for 5ghz on any board
> 
> set MAX LLC
> set vcore from 1.2-1.3v
> test FFT 80 min max, FFT in place all avx disable.
> once u find the vmin.. remember it
> now leave vcore auto. set ure 5ghz.. and then try to find the best loadline that gives u that vmin at the lowest temp.
> 
> asus 5ghz seems to be the 4.8vid in v/f around there...that sp9x dude most prob 1.15-1.2v


So I did the first 3 steps (this is now on an M13H) LLC8, vcore 1.28V manual, prime95 set FFT 80 min/max FFT in place and disabled all AVX. I ran prime95 and the VID minimum during the 5 minutes I let it run was 1.214V. This is an 11700K and SP64

Now I'm unclear on what to do after setting Vcore to auto voltage and sync all cores to 5.0 Ghz.
Do I sit at idle on desktop and see VID min? do I run a load and see if any drops?

Would I be able to set a manual voltage + LLC after determining the 5Ghz vmin for example? Thanks for your assistance. I'll keep reading falkentyne write ups. There was a good one on 10th Gen LLC and VID I’m trying to better understand.


----------



## Falkentyne

aznguyen316 said:


> So I did the first 3 steps (this is now on an M13H) LLC8, vcore 1.28V manual, prime95 set FFT 80 min/max FFT in place and disabled all AVX. I ran prime95 and the VID minimum during the 5 minutes I let it run was 1.214V. This is an 11700K and SP64
> 
> Now I'm unclear on what to do after setting Vcore to auto voltage and sync all cores to 5.0 Ghz.
> Do I sit at idle on desktop and see VID min? do I run a load and see if any drops?
> 
> Would I be able to set a manual voltage + LLC after determining the 5Ghz vmin for example? Thanks for your assistance. I'll keep reading falkentyne write ups. There was a good one on 10th Gen LLC and VID I’m trying to better understand.


Your vmin is 1.241v. 
That means you want to increase your bios starting voltage and use a LLC level which will give you about 1.240v load voltage. That's what he means.
You need to do your own experiments to see what LLC you need to use. We can't tell you.

I suggest starting at 1.40v set, LLC5 and then go from there.
(note this only works on boards with Die-sense voltage (Maximus, etc) or VR VOUT monitoring. I have no idea if MSI fixed their die sense whacky voltage readings either).


----------



## aznguyen316

Falkentyne said:


> Your vmin is 1.241v.
> That means you want to increase your bios starting voltage and use a LLC level which will give you about 1.240v load voltage. That's what he means.
> You need to do your own experiments to see what LLC you need to use. We can't tell you.
> 
> I suggest starting at 1.40v set, LLC5 and then go from there.
> (note this only works on boards with Die-sense voltage (Maximus, etc) or VR VOUT monitoring. I have no idea if MSI fixed their die sense whacky voltage readings either).


Thank you. I understand better now. I picked up a Maximus XIII Hero  This is what kind of remember doing awhile ago with my 10900k after reading your content on Reddit. I’m doing some testing now just with AI overclock and it’s giving me 51/50 heavy/light load and it is performing pretty well with decent temps. I’ll compare with manual voltage since I want to use the specific cores feature to get a core or two up higher


----------



## Electrosoft

Talon2016 said:


> I literally laughed when I read this. Head on over to r/AMD if you want to read about all the WHEA errors, continued USB issues even after AGESA update. It's hilarious. No thanks, I'll take my high power use and 14nm all day. RKL so far for me has been the most stable platform I've ever used and bodes well for Alder Lake launch late this year.





cstkl1 said:


> its refreshing right.
> i havent had a single game crash.


Not a single game crash on my 5800x, but I can attest to continued USB issues on the newest MSI x570 Tomahawk beta bios for very large file transfers and WHEA issues but only when tightening timings on B-Die attempting CL12 @ 3600 trying to make a dent in that high latency


Ex0duS5150 said:


> My bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZR is on the way


That's a damn decentcurve on an 11700k, nice.

Decided to go the toe in water frugal route with an 11700k and dirt cheap MSI Z590 for fun times in my spare case:


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> Stock cpu, Stock Strix 3080, 4800C19


5ghz all core
42 ring
5066 c19 too slow it looks like


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> Is this good for a 8 core i SOTR?
> View attachment 2484740


8 core


----------



## PhoenixMDA

AC i can push with bar support and grakaoc^^, i think not good benchmark to compare.5,2/4,8ghz


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 5ghz all core
> 42 ring
> 5066 c19 too slow it looks like
> View attachment 2484834
> 
> View attachment 2484836


i disabled rebar

u need z590. copy..


----------



## Bilco

On my MSI z490 Godlike I can't seem to 4000mhz or above unless io is around 1.5v with G.Skill F4-4266C17D-32GVKB in gear 2.
Just backed down SA/IO to 1.25/1.25 and will try to go with XMP settings from 3600 back up.


----------



## cstkl1

stock cpu , stock gpu, 4800C19 DR DJR
ACV 720p low rebar


----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> stock cpu , stock gpu, 4800C19 DR DJR
> ACV 720p low rebar


capped by memory i think?


----------



## aznguyen316

So I've been testing different voltages and clock ratios on the 11700K + Maximus XIII Hero this evening and I noticed my wifi would occasionally disconnect, or also just stop working - only during this time I've been running cinebench/geekbench gaming benchmarks. Maybe 4 times in the last 3 hours of stress testing and going in and out of BIOS. I've had HwInfo up but had not seen any errors even when the wifi was getting disconnected when I was stress testing. I've been testing a ton of different voltages/LLC/ratio settings and have not seen an error on HwInfo yet. Basically if system was unstable I would get BSOD pretty quickly watchdog issue. No problem. But this was the first time I've seen an error count on Hwinfo and it was labled in Hwinfo as pcie bus error. I went to event viewer and I see a few errors all related to my WiFi6e. It seems to be some error that occurs during stress testing and my OC may be unstable. Haven't seen anyone mention this so I figured I'd report it. Reboot resolves my wifi disconnect problem.










Netwtw10 shows: Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6E AX210 160MHz #2 : The network adapter has returned an invalid value to the driver.


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> capped by memory i think?


capped by optimized windows. lol. 

err bit surprise rebar works so good in acv


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> So I've been testing different voltages and clock ratios on the 11700K + Maximus XIII Hero this evening and I noticed my wifi would occasionally disconnect, or also just stop working - only during this time I've been running cinebench/geekbench gaming benchmarks. Maybe 4 times in the last 3 hours of stress testing and going in and out of BIOS. I've had HwInfo up but had not seen any errors even when the wifi was getting disconnected when I was stress testing. I've been testing a ton of different voltages/LLC/ratio settings and have not seen an error on HwInfo yet. Basically if system was unstable I would get BSOD pretty quickly watchdog issue. No problem. But this was the first time I've seen an error count on Hwinfo and it was labled in Hwinfo as pcie bus error. I went to event viewer and I see a few errors all related to my WiFi6e. It seems to be some error that occurs during stress testing and my OC may be unstable. Haven't seen anyone mention this so I figured I'd report it. Reboot resolves my wifi disconnect problem.
> 
> View attachment 2484870
> 
> 
> Netwtw10 shows: Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6E AX210 160MHz #2 : The network adapter has returned an invalid value to the driver.


dont use wifi but generally asus

new windows.. let mobo download armory crate. update everything
disable windows from updating drivers
go to asus/support and download armory crate uninstaller. 
uninstall it.


----------



## CallMeODZ

wow, gotta say i love the look of that board. those caps!

soz if repost


----------



## cstkl1

CallMeODZ said:


> wow, gotta say i love the look of that board. those caps!
> 
> soz if repost


giga caught up.. v/f

again his content is so good..


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

CallMeODZ said:


> wow, gotta say i love the look of that board. those caps!
> 
> soz if repost


Gigabyte does still favor Intel as it seems..that tachyon board quality is off the charts..as if an OCD engineer was designing it..lol..never saw this kind of quality for AMD..even the AORUS Extreme X570 was sub par..


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Gigabyte does still favor Intel as it seems..that tachyon board quality is off the charts..as if an OCD engineer was designing it..lol..never saw this kind of quality for AMD..even the AORUS Extreme X570 was sub par..


intel has fixed datasheet spec they adhere to
and theres more potential for aibs to exploit

amd agesa= usb 
a thing where norm is aib to fix that
amd bsod=agesa

and on and on and on


----------



## nievz

SuperMumrik said:


> That's not even close to fast memory


Minimal gain for him going from 3000 to 4000. Anyone have a link to a decent review showing memory scaling? Or care to share your experience? 😃


----------



## cstkl1

nievz said:


> Minimal gain for him going from 3000 to 4000. Anyone have a link to a decent review showing memory scaling? Or care to share your experience? 😃


my own testing 3866c14 and 4266c15 around the same.


----------



## mount333

4266 CL16 1:2 still has less fps than 3733 CL14. 1:2 need atleast 4800 + to be worth it.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> stock cpu , stock gpu, 4800C19 DR DJR
> ACV 720p low rebar


At stock graka, cpu i get 177fps, the cpu drive´s then 5,3/4,3 ghz allcore^^, without rebar 171fps.
the performance of the rkl don't knock me off my socks, but the motherboard are really good, they have all done to get performance from rkl.
whether amd cometlake rocketlake, they are all pretty much on par, it doesn't really matter what you have there.

the memory oc is the craziest what i ever seen on an generation, for ln2 overclocker i think is it a dream.


----------



## Falkentyne

mount333 said:


> 4266 CL16 1:2 still has less fps than 3733 CL14. 1:2 need atleast 4800 + to be worth it.


Is that 3733 CL14 command rate 1T? Or 2T?

My (Feb 2020) gskill 2x16 GB sticks can't do 3733 CL 15 at 1T. Massive errors even at 1.6v. They can't even do 3200 CL14 at XMP timings 1T stable at stock vdimm. (tested on Z490 and 10900k originally), but scale decently at 2T (if i recall, I think 4000 was possible CL15 with some volts, 4266 was possible CL 16/16/36, and 4400 at 16/17/37 with skews and RTL tweaks, but I could never get 4533 stable and anything higher fell on its face or didn't POST, even at CL 19...

My 2018 gskill sticks, funny enough, can do 3200 CL14, 1T, tight timings stable at stock vdimm, and CL15 @ 3600 1T sort of stable (I think at 1.45v i forgot), but they don't scale worth anything. 4000 19/19/39, 2T isn't even stable with those sticks...highest I could get them on Z490 M12E was 3866 CL17.

For some reason in Z590 M13E, I can't do 16/16/36 1:2 @ 4266 @ 1.5v stable, but 16/17/37 is no problem. On Z490, 4266 was easy at 16/16/36 at 1.5v with some skews and DLLBWen 0, so that's a bit confusing.


----------



## encrypted11

SP85 with much better IMC, booting 4800MHz C19 around 1.15 IO (Mem) 1.05 SA.
My DR DJRs are a disappointment, the best one booted 1.55-1.6 4800 C19
One 4533 C18 1.5
Two booted 1.55 4533 C19
So I'm stuck with 4533 C18 ish tuning being the weakest link of the 2.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Falkentyne
I don't know how good your kit is, but i can say to you the difference between the ripjaw 2x16GB 3200Cl14-14 kit's are really big.
The worst kit 10/2020 wouldn't post @1,5v over 3600mhz with cl16-16, but with cl16-18 and more voltage its able to boot 4500CL16-18.
My best kit 9/2020 boot CL16-16 @1,5V up to 4400mhz and is able to do 4000CL14-14 stable under 1,6V and can do over 4700mhz.

In high frequency it's more difficult not all kit's which are able to do [email protected],5V are able to do 4500+, one kit of 7/2020 was not able to post over 4400mhz at cl16/17/18/19, but it does [email protected],5v stable.


----------



## fray_bentos

CallMeODZ said:


> wow, gotta say i love the look of that board. those caps!
> 
> soz if repost


Or, to give this video the proper title, "5.1 GHz all core with -5 AVX offset (-6 for AVX512)" = 4.6 GHz in anything with AVX. The guy seems to know his stuff, but then always uses AVX offsets and silly voltages. I don't get it.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> At stock graka, cpu i get 177fps, the cpu drive´s then 5,3/4,3 ghz allcore^^, without rebar 171fps.
> the performance of the rkl don't knock me off my socks, but the motherboard are really good, they have all done to get performance from rkl.
> whether amd cometlake rocketlake, they are all pretty much on par, it doesn't really matter what you have there.
> 
> the memory oc is the craziest what i ever seen on an generation, for ln2 overclocker i think is it a dream.


without rebar.. so yours better than 11900k stock cpu.

so 11900k.. seems to be affected by it more then.. 

now makes me wonder is rebar affected by Gen 3 vs Gen 4


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> SP85 with much better IMC, booting 4800MHz C19 around 1.15 IO (Mem) 1.05 SA.
> My DR DJRs are a disappointment, the best one booted 1.55-1.6 4800 C19
> One 4533 C18 1.5
> Two booted 1.55 4533 C19
> So I'm stuck with 4533 C18 ish tuning being the weakest link of the 2.


DR Djrs are luck of the draw bro.. but better try with klevvs than spend 3-4x the amount for Gskill.. 
DJR binned kits aint gonna be cheap.


----------



## 646218

Has anyone ran latency mon on their 11900K yet?


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> 5600c22 booted easy
> View attachment 2484800


Have you managed to post past 5600 yet? I haven't on my DJR kit, no matter how loose I set the timings or how much I tweak SA / IOmem...
I think the sticks can do it and the IMC too, just the board somehow seems to glitch out



Falkentyne said:


> Is that 3733 CL14 command rate 1T? Or 2T?
> 
> My (Feb 2020) gskill 2x16 GB sticks can't do 3733 CL 15 at 1T. Massive errors even at 1.6v. They can't even do 3200 CL14 at XMP timings 1T stable at stock vdimm. (tested on Z490 and 10900k originally), but scale decently at 2T (if i recall, I think 4000 was possible CL15 with some volts, 4266 was possible CL 16/16/36, and 4400 at 16/17/37 with skews and RTL tweaks, but I could never get 4533 stable and anything higher fell on its face or didn't POST, even at CL 19...
> 
> My 2018 gskill sticks, funny enough, can do 3200 CL14, 1T, tight timings stable at stock vdimm, and CL15 @ 3600 1T sort of stable (I think at 1.45v i forgot), but they don't scale worth anything. 4000 19/19/39, 2T isn't even stable with those sticks...highest I could get them on Z490 M12E was 3866 CL17.
> 
> For some reason in Z590 M13E, I can't do 16/16/36 1:2 @ 4266 @ 1.5v stable, but 16/17/37 is no problem. On Z490, 4266 was easy at 16/16/36 at 1.5v with some skews and DLLBWen 0, so that's a bit confusing.


When you specify your memory voltage with 1.5V or 1.6V, have you tweaked VTT DDR in relation to Vdimm at all?


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> Have you managed to post past 5600 yet? I haven't on my DJR kit, no matter how loose I set the timings or how much I tweak SA / IOmem...
> I think the sticks can do it and the IMC too, just the board somehow seems to glitch out
> 
> 
> 
> When you specify your memory voltage with 1.5V or 1.6V, have you tweaked VTT DDR in relation to Vdimm at all?


5600Mhz was easy too boot  Posted a picture here yeasterday


----------



## skullbringer

Nizzen said:


> 5600Mhz was easy too boot  Posted a picture here yeasterday


yeah, that's what I quoted  I meant higher than 5600, e.g. 5733 or 5800?


----------



## robertr1

cstkl1 said:


> my own testing 3866c14 and 4266c15 around the same.


PCBuilding - RAM OC - Introduction timings and details are all listed


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> yeah, that's what I quoted  I meant higher than 5600, e.g. 5733 or 5800?


Sorry I miss red it 

5600 is max atm with the timings I used.


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## cstkl1

robertr1 said:


> PCBuilding - RAM OC - Introduction timings and details are all listed


edit it was 10900k..
but still it holds.. their sillyness in understanding ram timings..
casue they dont read specsheets

4400C16 vs 4400C17 bandwidth gain is marginal.. its latency the big difference.


----------



## Cpfan1

Nizzen said:


> Sorry I miss red it
> 
> 5600 is max atm with the timings I used.


Have you tried this kit on 10900k? I wonder where it caps with daily gaming voltages.

Thx


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan1 said:


> Have you tried this kit on 10900k? I wonder where it caps with daily gaming voltages.
> 
> Thx


No time for 10900k for weeks now


----------



## Falkentyne

skullbringer said:


> Have you managed to post past 5600 yet? I haven't on my DJR kit, no matter how loose I set the timings or how much I tweak SA / IOmem...
> I think the sticks can do it and the IMC too, just the board somehow seems to glitch out
> 
> 
> 
> When you specify your memory voltage with 1.5V or 1.6V, have you tweaked VTT DDR in relation to Vdimm at all?


Yes I always set it manually 1/2.


----------



## mount333

Falkentyne said:


> Is that 3733 CL14 command rate 1T? Or 2T?
> 
> My (Feb 2020) gskill 2x16 GB sticks can't do 3733 CL 15 at 1T. Massive errors even at 1.6v. They can't even do 3200 CL14 at XMP timings 1T stable at stock vdimm. (tested on Z490 and 10900k originally), but scale decently at 2T (if i recall, I think 4000 was possible CL15 with some volts, 4266 was possible CL 16/16/36, and 4400 at 16/17/37 with skews and RTL tweaks, but I could never get 4533 stable and anything higher fell on its face or didn't POST, even at CL 19...
> 
> My 2018 gskill sticks, funny enough, can do 3200 CL14, 1T, tight timings stable at stock vdimm, and CL15 @ 3600 1T sort of stable (I think at 1.45v i forgot), but they don't scale worth anything. 4000 19/19/39, 2T isn't even stable with those sticks...highest I could get them on Z490 M12E was 3866 CL17.
> 
> For some reason in Z590 M13E, I can't do 16/16/36 1:2 @ 4266 @ 1.5v stable, but 16/17/37 is no problem. On Z490, 4266 was easy at 16/16/36 at 1.5v with some skews and DLLBWen 0, so that's a bit confusing.


3733 CL14 1T.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> without rebar.. so yours better than 11900k stock cpu.
> 
> so 11900k.. seems to be affected by it more then..
> 
> now makes me wonder is rebar affected by Gen 3 vs Gen 4


I have Bios 1003...but i does more effekt than to push the frequency^^
5,5/5,1/ht on [email protected] i think that is not good game to compare cpu power


----------



## mount333

Try AC Odyssey.


----------



## Aaq

Haha, smoked you guys.


----------



## nievz

Aaq said:


> Haha, smoked you guys.
> 
> View attachment 2484934


This is probably due to the driver Nvidia overhead the Hardware Unboxed uncovered.


----------



## Aaq

nievz said:


> This is probably due to the driver Nvidia overhead the Hardware Unboxed uncovered.


I think so too  AMD POWA!


----------



## mount333

Aaq said:


> Haha, smoked you guys.
> 
> View attachment 2484934


Try 1080p low/medium. FC5, Odyssey.


----------



## Aaq

1440p Max


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Aaq said:


> Haha, smoked you guys.
> 
> View attachment 2484934


Like i have sayed, in Metro exodus @720p low benchmark i get no more gain from graphic card.
Perhaps this is better to compare.🤷‍♂️ 10900k 5,2ghz4600cl17 by me 100% cpu limited


----------



## BURGER4life

Guys what's your stock VCCSA?
Just built a 11900k/M13H setup, everything still on auto except i loaded up the XMP profile.

VCCSA is at 1.568V right now, seems a bit high doesn't it?

Edit: M13H bios 0704


----------



## Bilco

So do we have enough data to establish a general consensus or rule of thumb for the 11900k beating an average tuned 5.1-5.2ghz 10900k?

It seems like RLK requires you to have a good IMC + mobo that can handle gear 2 at greater than 4800mhz in order to do this?

This has been my experience so far:

[email protected], Gear 2, 4400mhz cl17 < [email protected] cl17 4266mhz

From what I have seen some mention [email protected] Gear 1 3600mhz cl17 will also lose to a [email protected] cl17 4266mhz???


Has anyone had success beating a mediocre tuned 10900k with an 11900k with 3600mhz or below ram and right timings?

I have some DJR hyjinx kits coming in this sunday and today... I will try them on my MSI z490 Godlike... But this bios is from Feb. 4th (LOL) so my hopes are not too high... I did decide to order an ASUS z590 hero in hopes to get the better ram clocking.

Maybe it is worth it for us with bad mobo/bios or bad IMCs to try for 5.1ghz instead of higher/tighter ram timings? Thoughts?


----------



## Bilco

BURGER4life said:


> Guys what's your stock VCCSA?
> Just built a 11900k/M13H setup, everything still on auto except i loaded up the XMP profile.
> 
> VCCSA is at 1.568V right now, seems a bit high doesn't it?
> 
> Edit: M13H bios 0704


For gskill cl17-18-18 @4266 gear 2 my z490 godlike was doing 1.26SA and rkl memory io 1.500.

I am not able to get it to boot unless the IO is at 1.5 with my current bios.

at 1.25 SA/IO I am able to do cl17 gear 2 @4000mhz, 4266 is crash... not impressive. I havent worked on tightening the timings, but I am NOT hopeful.


----------



## Aaq

Is this any good?


----------



## Talon2016

Aaq said:


> View attachment 2484966
> 
> 
> Is this any good?


Yes very good!


----------



## Humafold

Is the MSI z590 Carbon WiFi a good enough board to buy and push mem oc? I see no reviews. It sits at a $350 price point. I’ve always used ASUS, but I have access to the MSI now. I tore down my old wc build so I’m working with a Corsair h100i until I get a new pump and blocks for the cpu, so it will be a little time to see what my chip can do. I wanted to save $200 on the board for supplies.


----------



## Nizzen

Aaq said:


> 1440p Max
> 
> View attachment 2484942


1440p max
Stock 3090 gpu

6900xt looks to be king in this game.

Maybe they nerfed nVidia since it says "RYZEN" when loading the game


----------



## Falkentyne

BURGER4life said:


> Guys what's your stock VCCSA?
> Just built a 11900k/M13H setup, everything still on auto except i loaded up the XMP profile.
> 
> VCCSA is at 1.568V right now, seems a bit high doesn't it?
> 
> Edit: M13H bios 0704


Memory timings please?
If that's beyond 3200 mhz and it's Gear 1, that's normal to make sure it will work. Just lower it. 3733 Gear 1 requires yeet IO/SA just to be stable. Kingfaris was testing that with CL 14/15/15.
Remember you can set auto voltage caps also.


----------



## Aaq

Nizzen said:


> 1440p max
> Stock 3090 gpu
> 
> 6900xt looks to be king in this game.
> 
> Maybe they nerfed nVidia since it says "RYZEN" when loading the game
> View attachment 2484971


Big difference between the two! How is that even possible???


----------



## Aaq

Falkentyne said:


> Memory timings please?
> If that's beyond 3200 mhz and it's Gear 1, that's normal to make sure it will work. Just lower it. 3733 Gear 1 requires yeet IO/SA just to be stable. Kingfaris was testing that with CL 14/15/15.
> Remember you can set auto voltage caps also.


Mine is also this high?


----------



## Ex0duS5150

Loaded XMP first boot CPU 3 error on memtest.. Upped SA voltage to 1.08 changed last command rate to T2 instead of auto so far so good MoBo Memtest loaded now at 15mins no errors. On second pass now fingers crossed


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 1440p max
> Stock 3090 gpu
> 
> 6900xt looks to be king in this game.
> 
> Maybe they nerfed nVidia since it says "RYZEN" when loading the game
> View attachment 2484971


gpu utilization bro
the game.. caps the 3080 at under 300w and 3090 under 350

while rdna 2 runs full throttle.
5600x, 5900x , 10900k, 11900k all 1440p rtx 3080 85 fps during lainch the first month.

also rebar boost the game atm.. on all reso.. 10%-15%


----------



## TK421

cstkl1 said:


> gpu utilization bro
> the game.. caps the 3080 at under 300w and 3090 under 350
> 
> while rdna 2 runs full throttle.
> 5600x, 5900x , 10900k, 11900k all 1440p rtx 3080 85 fps during lainch the first month.


@cstkl1 do you by any chance have a working version of memtweakit for M13A/M12A? the one found on hwbot uses an old driver that's now blocked by newer version of windows


----------



## Falkentyne

I have it but no idea how or where to post it.
It was posted on the jedec discord.



https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813711764302462997/826792304140484615/MemTweakIt.zip


----------



## cstkl1

TK421 said:


> @cstkl1 do you by any chance have a working version of memtweakit for M13A/M12A? the one found on hwbot uses an old driver that's now blocked by newer version of windows


one sec let me find
Pmed ya


----------



## TK421

cstkl1 said:


> one sec let me find
> Pmed ya


thanks I'll check the PM


----------



## GeneO

Falkentyne said:


> I have it but no idea how or where to post it.
> It was posted on the jedec discord.
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813711764302462997/826792304140484615/MemTweakIt.zip


Thanks Falkentyne! This is the first version that has worked on Windows 10 with correct z490 numbers.

EDIT: Ack. Spoke two soon. tRAS is reported correctly (18 instead of 36). tRRD are way off too (25 and 19!).. Hope it works OK for you all with Z590.


----------



## Falkentyne

GeneO said:


> Thanks Falkentyne! This is the first version that has worked on Windows 10 with correct z490 numbers.
> 
> EDIT: Ack. Spoke two soon. tRAS is reported correctly (18 instead of 36). tRRD are way off too (25 and 19!).. Hope it works OK for you all with Z590.


This only works correctly on z590. Someone else posted it and I assume they got it from Shamino.


----------



## cstkl1

as usual.. bash on intel.. not deleted. amd dude comes to intel.. bashes.. my post gets deleted...

the epic one the dude thought gearing was by amd.. also gone looks like it...

seems like master z590 cannot do DJR DR above 4600


----------



## IronAge




----------



## mount333

cstkl1 said:


> as usual.. bash on intel.. not deleted. amd dude comes to intel.. bashes.. my post gets deleted...
> 
> the epic one the dude thought gearing was by amd.. also gone looks like it...
> 
> seems like master z590 cannot do DJR DR above 4600


for now, what is your experience with 11900k compared to 10900k?


----------



## cstkl1

mount333 said:


> for now, what is your experience with 11900k compared to 10900k?


for me it was parity error for gaming
but errr a well optimized 10900k.. even zen 3 will be hard to compete with that.
my setup i am getting the same as my 10900k with no error.. so..

i hope b560 wont be nerfed...

11900k if u dont like ram oc.. hmm
from the start i think the thread.. i really not sure how intel justifying i9 vs i7 but i am seeing most i7 5ghz are 1.3x and i9 are 1.2x

and the retail 11900k are better than ES.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

At Microcenter 11900k is $700 and 11700K is $400. I might pick up an 11700k and immediately go direct die.


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> i hope b560 wont be nerfed...


People will still have stigma over b and h series being cheapo and crap so I imagine board vendors won't push too much effort into them to be honest just because of that.


----------



## Electrosoft

0451 said:


> At Microcenter 11900k is $700 and 11700K is $400. I might pick up an 11700k and immediately go direct die.


It was $613.99 just up to yesterday and then they raised it. I went 11700k @ 399.99.

Keep an eye out on best buy, as they are sanely priced at $549.99.


----------



## cstkl1

Electrosoft said:


> It was $613.99 just up to yesterday and then they raised it. I went 11700k @ 399.99.
> 
> Keep an eye out on best buy, as they are sanely priced at $549.99.


11900k was priced here usd 549



D-EJ915 said:


> People will still have stigma over b and h series being cheapo and crap so I imagine board vendors won't push too much effort into them to be honest just because of that.


maybe. for now asus optimem III only given to strix-E and above


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k was priced here usd 549
> 
> 
> maybe. for now asus optimem III only given to strix-E and above


Microcenter prices based on demand and typically has in-store only deals where processors are $50-$100 below retail.


----------



## encrypted11

Managed to put GSAT through RKL+ an average DR DJR pair. They're definitely less temperature sensitive than B-die. GSAT's cooking the DIMMs they made it through an hour run.
Timings are not great but I now have a stable baseline.

Are there any BIOSes later than 0704 available for the Z590I Strix?


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> depend on your imc.
> these are for bdies only ya.


I did follow your advice and went to tweak the ram using more frequency. My B-die kit doenst like more than 4400mhz even with 1.50v. Or maybe its the imc.

Gaming i can't see much difference. Aida scores are higher.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> as usual.. bash on intel.. not deleted. amd dude comes to intel.. bashes.. my post gets deleted...


This might just be my imagination, but a good portion of your posts seem to focus on bashing AMD processors.

Why not quit with the bashing, and start discussing how to extract the most performance possible out of these processors?

8 hours until I can pick up my 11900K and motherboard, gotta finish benching on X570 and get some sleep.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I did follow your advice and went to tweak the ram using more frequency. My B-die kit doenst like more than 4400mhz even with 1.50v. Or maybe its the imc.
> 
> Gaming i can't see much difference. Aida scores are higher.
> 
> View attachment 2485018
> View attachment 2485019


its not the high, its the min fps...
Skylake architecture is based on ipc gain from DDR4 speeds

when it was launch.. it had a hard time beating 4790k until the ram speeds started ramping up with ddr4
so the nonsense about intel liking latency.. and not bandwidth.. if that was true 4790k wouldnt have loss.


----------



## Cpfan1

cstkl1 said:


> as usual.. bash on intel.. not deleted. amd dude comes to intel.. bashes.. my post gets deleted...
> 
> the epic one the dude thought gearing was by amd.. also gone looks like it...
> 
> seems like master z590 cannot do DJR DR above 4600


Ive seen people running 5200+ on z490 elite


----------



## YaqY

Cpfan1 said:


> Ive seen people running 5200+ on z490 elite
> View attachment 2485027


That picture is also a fake .


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> That picture is also a fake .


Is there more fake and cheating from Russia?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Is there more fake and cheating from Russia?


why only russia bro. some are posting like its a competition here.

stock cpu/stock gpu/rebar/4800c19/cstate on/Optimized windows lol


stock cpu/stock gpu/ rebar/4800C19/ cstate off/OPTIMIZED windows lol


11900k min fps > [email protected]


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> why only russia bro. some are posting like its a competition here.
> 
> stock cpu/stock gpu/rebar/4800c19/cstate on/Optimized windows lol
> 
> 
> stock cpu/stock gpu/ rebar/4800C19/ cstate off/OPTIMIZED windows lol
> 
> 
> 11900k min fps > [email protected]


Have you ran this by chance with a core/cache overclock? Thanks for the results.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> Have you ran this by chance with a core/cache overclock? Thanks for the results.


no. i know this game bro. u can oc cpu and gpu to the wazoo but gpu power usage aint gonna increase, all this chasing of 1-5fps just a bs thing. 
gpu vram might help the texture streaming or raid two gen 4 nvme.

but thats like out of topic right. to see what a stock 11900k can do and my claims the stock setup i am using with oced ram = my 10900k rig.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> no. i know this game bro. u can oc cpu and gpu to the wazoo but gpu power usage aint gonna increase, all this chasing of 1-5fps just a bs thing.
> gpu vram might help the texture streaming or raid two gen 4 nvme.
> 
> but thats like out of topic right. to see what a stock 11900k can do any my claims the stock setup i am using with oced ram = my 10900k rig.


Just trying to get an idea if going from the all core stock turbo of 4.8 to say 5.1 all core or so has a negligible difference. In the end a lot of us here like to push our cpus/ram.


----------



## cstkl1

i suspect


YaqY said:


> Just trying to get an idea if going from the all core stock turbo of 4.8 to say 5.1 all core or so has a negligible difference. In the end a lot of us here like to push our cpus/ram.


this game atm i suspect its rebar + gen 4..
thats where the actual boost is helping 11900k.

atm i am just looking at all these optimized windows that been going arnd. 

techcity version garbage
ghost spectre is good but he change the icons to some neon thing which i hate. 

install a version no defender and thats another 1-2fps increase.

hmm i wonder 980 pro x 3 raid 0 on m13e.

atm giga tachyon and asrock looks like over-engineered board with very little work on bios on ram. 

latency i havent seen any good numbers from giga.


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> atm giga tachyon and asrock looks like over-engineered board with very little work on bios on ram.
> 
> latency i havent seen any good numbers from giga.


Might be different this time around, but that's how it's usually been. Wish the Z590 Apex was launched already


----------



## cstkl1

Antsu said:


> Might be different this time around, but that's how it's usually been. Wish the Z590 Apex was launched already


engineering + @shamino1978 > over-engineering 

lol.


----------



## Spiriva

Im very pleased with the 11900k, not a single crash, reboot, bsod etc.


















Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5300 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[smwg64] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-3JN9341 (2021-04-02 19:58:21) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr





I havent touched my memory yet, only been oc the cpu (x53 all cores).

I dunno why all these reviewers are about calling the 11900k "very hot" unless they mean it looks "very sexy" i dont get it.
The 11900k runs no warmer then my old 9900k, with the same cpu block from EK on it.
In games at 5.3ghz all cores, ~1.380v it sits fine around 47c-55c and in 3dmark cpu test & cinebench it reaches 71c

Later this weekend ill try to work on my ddr4 some, its a 3600mhz g skill kit (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN) I got them from a friend who bought them for a Ryzen cpu, ofc he had nothing but bad luck and his Ryzen cpu was garbage. He ended up getting some faster ram and a 10900k.

If someone is in the marked for a new cpu/mobo and like playing games I would absolutly recommend the 11900k.

If anyone got a recommendation for some faster ram then what im using now, that works well with the 11900k id be happy for the advice.


----------



## cstkl1

Spiriva said:


> Im very pleased with the 11900k, not a single crash, reboot, bsod etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5300 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [smwg64] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-3JN9341 (2021-04-02 19:58:21) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I havent touched my memory yet, only been oc the cpu (x53 all cores).
> 
> I dunno why all these reviewers are about calling the 11900k "very hot" unless they mean it looks "very sexy" i dont get it.
> The 11900k runs no warmer then my old 9900k, with the same cpu block from EK on it.
> In games at 5.3ghz all cores, ~1.380v it sits fine around 47c-55c and in 3dmark cpu test & cinebench it reaches 71c
> 
> Later this weekend ill try to work on my ddr4 some, its a 3600mhz g skill kit (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN) I got them from a friend who bought them for a Ryzen cpu, ofc he had nothing but bad luck and his Ryzen cpu was garbage. He ended up getting some faster ram and a 10900k.
> 
> If someone is in the marked for a new cpu/mobo and like playing games I would absolutly recommend the 11900k.
> 
> If anyone got a recommendation for some faster ram then what im using now, that works well with the 11900k id be happy for the advice.


will pm u a c17 profile later for that ram.. you can try that.. should work up to 4533C17.. 
but that's depends on the ram and CPU imc ya..


----------



## YaqY

Spiriva said:


> Im very pleased with the 11900k, not a single crash, reboot, bsod etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5300 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [smwg64] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-3JN9341 (2021-04-02 19:58:21) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I havent touched my memory yet, only been oc the cpu (x53 all cores).
> 
> I dunno why all these reviewers are about calling the 11900k "very hot" unless they mean it looks "very sexy" i dont get it.
> The 11900k runs no warmer then my old 9900k, with the same cpu block from EK on it.
> In games at 5.3ghz all cores, ~1.380v it sits fine around 47c-55c and in 3dmark cpu test & cinebench it reaches 71c
> 
> Later this weekend ill try to work on my ddr4 some, its a 3600mhz g skill kit (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN) I got them from a friend who bought them for a Ryzen cpu, ofc he had nothing but bad luck and his Ryzen cpu was garbage. He ended up getting some faster ram and a 10900k.
> 
> If someone is in the marked for a new cpu/mobo and like playing games I would absolutly recommend the 11900k.
> 
> If anyone got a recommendation for some faster ram then what im using now, that works well with the 11900k id be happy for the advice.


Nice chip, what SP is it? What llc and set voltage are you using.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> its not the high, its the min fps...
> Skylake architecture is based on ipc gain from DDR4 speeds
> 
> when it was launch.. it had a hard time beating 4790k until the ram speeds started ramping up with ddr4
> so the nonsense about intel liking latency.. and not bandwidth.. if that was true 4790k wouldnt have loss.


Ok I got it. I tried to put this rams to higher frequency but it's a no-go so I'll try a different kit.

Still it's much better now than before so thank you.

For 10900k what the average max frequency for single and dual rank kits?


----------



## IronAge

Antsu said:


> Might be different this time around, but that's how it's usually been. Wish the Z590 Apex was launched already


It is available from a European Etailer:






ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX Mainboard - Intel Z590 - Intel LGA1200 socket - DDR4 RAM - ATX


478,32 € Mainboard, ATX, Intel LGA1200 Socket, Intel Z590, 1 x PCI-Express 4.0 x16 (11th Gen) & 1 x PCI-Express 3.0 x16, Dual DDR4-3200 - 2 x DIMM slots, 8 x SATA-600 / 3 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 & 1 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 4.0 (2242 / 2260 / 2280), USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type A & C, Intel I225-V 2.5...




www.proshop.de


----------



## Spiriva

cstkl1 said:


> will pm u a c17 profile later for that ram.. you can try that.. should work up to 4533C17..
> but that's depends on the ram and CPU imc ya..


Thank you, I appreciate it.



YaqY said:


> Nice chip, what SP is it? What llc and set voltage are you using.


SP 81, lcc 6, 1,380v


----------



## Nizzen

Spiriva said:


> Thank you, I appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> SP 81, lcc 6, 1,380v





cstkl1 said:


> will pm u a c17 profile later for that ram.. you can try that.. should work up to 4533C17..
> but that's depends on the ram and CPU imc ya..


Can I be on that list to? For me it's hard to get 4533mhz work with 2x16 b-die. The same kit does 4700 on 10900k. 4266c17 2x16. Strange. Hynix kit does 5600mhz, so can't be the IMC? Maybe Dualrank on Rocketlake is hard?


----------



## jaghsar

I have a 11900K on the way and I plan to use these Ripjaws. Will they work alright in 1:1? Anyone with similar setup? It will be used 99% for gaming so I guess RAM OC isn't super important since the stock speeds are okay.


----------



## Nizzen

jaghsar said:


> I have a 11900K on the way and I plan to use these Ripjaws. Will they work alright in 1:1? Anyone with similar setup? It will be used 99% for gaming so I guess RAM OC isn't super important since the stock speeds are okay.
> 
> View attachment 2485062


I have the same kit. Running 4266 1:2. 1:1 is no chance at that speed


----------



## aznguyen316

Nizzen said:


> I have the same kit. Running 4266 1:2. 1:1 is no chance at that speed


Mind sharing some sub timings when you get a chance. Whether it’s XMP or your settings? Thanks!

Trying to stabilize my 2x16GB bdie overclocked up to 4266.


----------



## jaghsar

Nizzen said:


> I have the same kit. Running 4266 1:2. 1:1 is no chance at that speed


Ah, okay. Does 1:2 matter in gaming performance?


----------



## ALSTER868

Spiriva said:


> Later this weekend ill try to work on my ddr4 some, its a 3600mhz g skill kit (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN


Please keep us informed about the progress on this RAM. I have the very same kit and going to buy 11900K, very interested to know what this kit can do on Z590.

Thx


----------



## ALSTER868

Nizzen said:


> For me it's hard to get 4533mhz work with 2x16 b-die


What have you been able to achieve with this kit so far? Are you on Z490 or 590?


----------



## Nizzen

ALSTER868 said:


> What have you been able to achieve with this kit so far? Are you on Z490 or 590?


z490 apex and 10900k. 4700c17


----------



## Nizzen

jaghsar said:


> Ah, okay. Does 1:2 matter in gaming performance?


Memory DOES matter in gaming


----------



## ALSTER868

Nizzen said:


> z490 apex and 10900k. 4700c17


I meant what you have achieved on 11900K with this memory. Tried it with the new cpu?


----------



## Nizzen

ALSTER868 said:


> I meant what you have achieved on 11900K with this memory. Tried it with the new cpu?


g.skill 4266c17 2x16 kit
Tweaked










VS stock xmp on the same system


----------



## ALSTER868

Nizzen said:


> g.skill 4266c17 2x16 kit


Perhaps not very excellent but not bad either IMO 
Though I had some expectations about the IMC on RKL, thought it could be better than on CML


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

jaghsar said:


> I have a 11900K on the way and I plan to use these Ripjaws. Will they work alright in 1:1? Anyone with similar setup? It will be used 99% for gaming so I guess RAM OC isn't super important since the stock speeds are okay.
> 
> View attachment 2485062


The highest 1:1 IMC I know so far is 4133. So you can try to lower the speed and shrink some timings.

Nice kit btw.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The highest 1:1 IMC I know so far is 4133. So you can try to lower the speed and shrink some timings.
> 
> Nice kit btw.


Any pictures of this?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> Any pictures of this?


None. That was a personal communication with TOPPC. He tested hundreds of 11 gen, only found one.


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> None. That was a personal communication with TOPPC. He tested hundreds of 11 gen, only found one.


One in a million


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

should I upgrade 10900k 5.5 with 4600c16 dual rank to 11900k? Just for gaming. I already have a cpu on my hand but reluctant to use it.


----------



## Arni90

Just set this up, flashed BIOS, and got this.
Now to see how bad the temperatures actually are.

EDIT: 74C in a single Cinebench R23 run with ABT and MCE on, 264W package power. Not too bad


----------



## KyloRen

jaghsar said:


> Ah, okay. Does 1:2 matter in gaming performance?


Unless you can achieve 4500+ mhz in speeds best to stick to 3600mhz 1:1 low timings


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> should I upgrade 10900k 5.5 with 4600c16 dual rank to 11900k? Just for gaming. I already have a cpu on my hand but reluctant to use it.


Sidegrade and a small upgrade in a few scenarioes. Upgrade in fun with high speed memory 

Like this I'm testing:


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> View attachment 2485076
> 
> Just set this up, flashed BIOS, and got this.
> Now to see how bad the temperatures actually are.
> 
> EDIT: 74C in a single Cinebench R23 run with ABT and MCE on, 264W package power. Not too bad


84 is pretty good


----------



## Steve_R

Just got i9 11900k, Asus z590 strix gaming-a, 32gb c18 3600 ram, WD sn850 1tb pcie 4.0 ssd, upgraded from a pc with i7 6900k, x99 asrock fata1ty gaming professional, 16gb ddr4 2133 ram, gtx 1080 ti and 250gb ssd. CPU auto clocked to 5.1 and in gaming reaches 61c, just need a rtx 3080 now. Running on igpu atm. Got it cooled by a Corsair h150i 360mm radiator.


----------



## Nizzen

This is potensial 24/7 settings with 1.55v vdram aircooling. Higher, watercooling is smart for hot enviroment. Read: In small cases
2x16 4266c17 @ 4400c17 tweaked

Fast Ram Test to see if it's a bit stable.


----------



## Arni90

@Nizzen Your read and write speeds are impressive, but why is copy so low? You need to get those tertiaries under control

Here's what I pulled together quickly with 2x16GB B-die at 1.65V, hasn't crashed yet:


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> This is potensial 24/7 settings with 1.55v vdram aircooling. Higher, watercooling is smart for hot enviroment. Read: In small cases
> 2x16 4266c17 @ 4400c17 tweaked
> 
> Fast Ram Test to see if it's a bit stable.
> 
> View attachment 2485093


It looks good man. 

Did you run any gaming tests with this set-up?


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> @Nizzen Your read and write speeds are impressive, but why is copy so low? You need to get those tertiaries under control
> 
> Here's what I pulled together quickly with 2x16GB B-die at 1.65V, hasn't crashed yet:
> 
> View attachment 2485102


Pleace help me with copy  I haven't figured out that yet...


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> It looks good man.
> 
> Did you run any gaming tests with this set-up?


4400c17 2x16 tweaked

Maybe I need to have a tweaked windows to get higher, or 5950x LOL

Need to compare this results with Hynix memory later.

HT=on








HT=off








HT=on








HT=Off









Looks like HT= off still is a thing


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> @Nizzen Your read and write speeds are impressive, but why is copy so low? You need to get those tertiaries under control
> 
> Here's what I pulled together quickly with 2x16GB B-die at 1.65V, hasn't crashed yet:
> 
> View attachment 2485102


Nice scores. But
1.65v DDR voltage? Isn't that really high for 4266? Or was that a typo?
What were your Mem VCCIO and VCCSA set to?


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> Nice scores. But
> 1.65v DDR voltage? Isn't that really high for 4266? Or was that a typo?
> What were your Mem VCCIO and VCCSA set to?


I just set 1.65V on memory to see how high I could boot, 4533 booted, but wasn't remotely stable, so I went back to 4266 to see if I could get something bench-stable. The sticks are watercooled, so it's not like I'll meet the typical temperature issues B-die users typically get at 1.65V
And it's dual rank B-die, which doesn't clock all that high.

I think I set 1.3V VCCSA and 1.4V VCCIO MemOC, going 1.45/1.55 didn't help stability for 4533. Again I didn't really bother trying to minimize voltage, I just picked values slightly higher than what booted on auto settings (4266) to see if I could push higher.

EDIT:
17K in Cinebench R23!
And 370W Package power 🔥

I now see my system time is off, but I have to get myself some dinner now!


----------



## mount333

Nizzen said:


> 4400c17 2x16 tweaked
> 
> Maybe I need to have a tweaked windows to get higher, or 5950x LOL
> 
> Need to compare this results with Hynix memory later.
> 
> HT=on
> View attachment 2485108
> 
> HT=off
> View attachment 2485113
> 
> HT=on
> View attachment 2485109
> 
> HT=Off
> View attachment 2485114
> 
> 
> Looks like HT= off still is a thing


bad performance in gaming vs 10900k and ryzen.


----------



## Nizzen

mount333 said:


> bad performance in gaming vs 10900k and ryzen.


It's garbage

Post your result


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> I just set 1.65V on memory to see how high I could boot, 4533 booted, but wasn't remotely stable, so I went back to 4266 to see if I could get something bench-stable. The sticks are watercooled, so it's not like I'll meet the typical temperature issues B-die users typically get at 1.65V
> And it's dual rank B-die, which doesn't clock all that high.
> 
> I think I set 1.3V VCCSA and 1.4V VCCIO MemOC, going 1.45/1.55 didn't help stability for 4533. Again I didn't really bother trying to minimize voltage, I just picked values slightly higher than what booted on auto settings (4266) to see if I could push higher.
> 
> EDIT:
> 17K in Cinebench R23!
> And 370W Package power 🔥
> 
> I now see my system time is off, but I have to get myself some dinner now!
> 
> View attachment 2485115


Holy crap.
I cranked out your terts with my primaries and corked this out.
No idea if stable yet. I'm at 1.5v. Going to run prime95 large FFT and see if threads start crashing.


----------



## Bilco

For those of you experienced swapping motherboards... Do you think I can expect to get the same cpu OC on this Z590 hero as I currently am getting on the Z490 msi godlike? 

The hero has 2 less phase so I don't know. Wondering what you guys have seen from experience.


----------



## encrypted11

Received some nice tertiaries.Works well and pases google stressapptest.

A nicer DR DJR sample would probably do 4533 or 4800 at better CAS.

I can see how some of these $160 (before taxes) pairs of 32GB go well with a i7-11700K build on a tighter budget.


----------



## bigcid10

I just sold my AMD stuff and bought a rog strix z590-e gaming and a 11900k
I just installed it last night and went through some preliminary testing
SP on the cpu is 82 ,I think 139 on the cooler
Temps are fine on the h150 pro in temp settings , I get 5.3 encore clocks I'm using 3600 b dies at stock settings right now 16 16 16 36 1T

My only issue that I have so far is random crash to desktop on games like after an hour or so
When I used to have an x299
I would just increase system agent voltage a little bit that would get rid of it would apply in a situation like this,or or is there something else that someone can think of that would be an easy fix
Everything else seems to be fine it works real well
I've been out of the Intel loop for a little bit of time I'm back in now with the 11 series
Thank you


----------



## i9forever

bigcid10 said:


> I just sold my AMD stuff and bought a rog strix z590-e gaming and a 11900k
> I just installed it last night and went through some preliminary testing
> SP on the cpu is 82 ,I think 139 on the cooler
> Temps are fine on the h150 pro in temp settings , I get 5.3 encore clocks I'm using 3600 b dies at stock settings right now 16 16 16 36 1T
> 
> My only issue that I have so far is random crash to desktop on games like after an hour or so
> When I used to have an x299
> I would just increase system agent voltage a little bit that would get rid of it would apply in a situation like this,or or is there something else that someone can think of that would be an easy fix
> Everything else seems to be fine it works real well
> I've been out of the Intel loop for a little bit of time I'm back in now with the 11 series
> Thank you


Just an idea, your score for the h150 is low, do you have properly mounted the cooler? Your score should be at least 160-170+, I would remove the cooler, clean/repaste you know the drill, and seat the cooler again.


----------



## bigcid10

i9forever said:


> Just an idea, your score for the h150 is low, do you have properly mounted the cooler? Your score should be at least 160-170+, I would remove the cooler, clean/repaste you know the drill, and seat the cooler again.


I'm sorry,I made a mistake on the cooler part 
It was 181


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> For those of you experienced swapping motherboards... Do you think I can expect to get the same cpu OC on this Z590 hero as I currently am getting on the Z490 msi godlike?
> 
> The hero has 2 less phase so I don't know. Wondering what you guys have seen from experience.


14 phases * 90A = 1260A. Considering the 40~50% efficiency range would be 630A, far enough for the i9.

My M13H will arrive on Monday. I will check how it would go with 11900K.


----------



## bigcid10

bigcid10 said:


> I'm sorry,I made a mistake on the cooler part
> It was 181


I'm going to post bios pics in a little bit
Thank you


----------



## Steve_R




----------



## aznguyen316

Any idea if this RAM might be DJR?

Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model PVB416G440C8K

Didn't come up much with google with the model. Only a review comparing to the Klevv which I can't find in the US.

Otherwise, the next kit that's cheapest is F4-4400C18D-16GVKC which I think is DJR with the C at the end of the SKU which @cstkl1 mentioned before.

Don't care to spend too much more for ram just to mess around with since I am using 2x16GB bdie right now.


----------



## encrypted11

VKC is the suffix for JEDEC 2666 bin on SK-Hynix chip.


----------



## Carls_Car

Question:

11900K, z590 Aorus Ultra, 14-15-15-35 3600 @ 1.45V (default for this kit)

I manually set my vcore in BIOS to 1.3, but my VROUT/Vcore HWinfo / CPUz is saying it's jumping between either ~0.8 <-> 1.45?

Am I missing something??


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Can I be on that list to? For me it's hard to get 4533mhz work with 2x16 b-die. The same kit does 4700 on 10900k. 4266c17 2x16. Strange. Hynix kit does 5600mhz, so can't be the IMC? Maybe Dualrank on Rocketlake is hard?


err no. hmm every time theres a new mrc code
bdie dr seems to go whack somewhere and improves something else


Nizzen said:


> Pleace help me with copy  I haven't figured out that yet...
> 
> View attachment 2485107


ok will pass the 4533 setting in an hour.. havent retested it on the current bios.


----------



## encrypted11

Good way to find out the IC type:
MSI's Memory QVL





MSI USA


Welcome to the MSI USA website. MSI designs and creates Mainboard, AIO, Graphics card, Notebook, Netbook, Tablet PC, Consumer electronics, Communication, Barebone, Server, industrial computing, Multimedia, Clean Machine and Car Infotainment.




us.msi.com





Some product lines may use different ICs depending on batch (usually the mid range and entry corsairs for example)


----------



## Antsu

IronAge said:


> It is available from a European Etailer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX Mainboard - Intel Z590 - Intel LGA1200 socket - DDR4 RAM - ATX
> 
> 
> 478,32 € Mainboard, ATX, Intel LGA1200 Socket, Intel Z590, 1 x PCI-Express 4.0 x16 (11th Gen) & 1 x PCI-Express 3.0 x16, Dual DDR4-3200 - 2 x DIMM slots, 8 x SATA-600 / 3 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 & 1 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 4.0 (2242 / 2260 / 2280), USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type A & C, Intel I225-V 2.5...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proshop.de


Holy balls, the easter bunny must've visited Proshop warehouse, haha. Ordered one, now just waiting for my 11900K to ship. The gaming benchmarks look pretty dissapointing tbh... My 2019 Z390 setup with single rank memory is actually beating these results, I really want to upgrade but I don't want to spend 1150€ (+450€ for dual rank 4266C17 kit...) to get lower performance, lmao. Maybe the latency from 1:2 just hurts gaming too much and Z590 + 10900K is actually the best for gaming?



Nizzen said:


> 4400c17 2x16 tweaked
> 
> Maybe I need to have a tweaked windows to get higher, or 5950x LOL
> 
> Need to compare this results with Hynix memory later.
> HT=off
> View attachment 2485113
> 
> HT=Off
> View attachment 2485114


----------



## Antsu

Carls_Car said:


> Question:
> 
> 11900K, z590 Aorus Ultra, 14-15-15-35 3600 @ 1.45V (default for this kit)
> 
> I manually set my vcore in BIOS to 1.3, but my VROUT/Vcore HWinfo / CPUz is saying it's jumping between either ~0.8 <-> 1.45?
> 
> Am I missing something??


Turn off all power saving stuff and only read VRVOUT from HWiNFO64.


----------



## menko2

Antsu said:


> Holy balls, the easter bunny must've visited Proshop warehouse, haha. Ordered one, now just waiting for my 11900K to ship. The gaming benchmarks look pretty dissapointing tbh... My 2019 Z390 setup with single rank memory is actually beating these results, I really want to upgrade but I don't want to spend 1150€ (+450€ for dual rank 4266C17 kit...) to get lower performance, lmao. Maybe the latency from 1:2 just hurts gaming too much and Z590 + 10900K is actually the best for gaming?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2485188
> View attachment 2485189
> View attachment 2485190


You are getting even better scores than me with 10900k and similar ram. My cpu is at 5.1ghz and yours 5.4ghz but the rest is quite similar.

If things don't change with microcode a i won't upgrade either.


----------



## mount333

Antsu said:


> Holy balls, the easter bunny must've visited Proshop warehouse, haha. Ordered one, now just waiting for my 11900K to ship. The gaming benchmarks look pretty dissapointing tbh... My 2019 Z390 setup with single rank memory is actually beating these results, I really want to upgrade but I don't want to spend 1150€ (+450€ for dual rank 4266C17 kit...) to get lower performance, lmao. Maybe the latency from 1:2 just hurts gaming too much and Z590 + 10900K is actually the best for gaming?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2485188
> View attachment 2485189
> View attachment 2485190


so far, 10900k> 11900k. unless someone here gets better results.


----------



## Nizzen

mount333 said:


> so far, 10900k> 11900k. unless someone here gets better results.


That' my conclution too, coming from 10900k 5.5ghz with 4700mhz sub 35ns memory.

Funny part is that I'm using most of the time a 3.5 years old delidded 7980xe 4.7ghz ~50ns latency. Fast enough for 3440x1440 144hz gaming in Battlefield


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> That' my conclution too, coming from 10900k 5.5ghz with 4700mhz sub 35ns memory.
> 
> Funny part is that I'm using most of the time a 3.5 years old delidded 7980xe 4.7ghz ~50ns latency. Fast enough for 3440x1440 144hz gaming in Battlefield


What's your memory kit for 4700mhz? Impressive!


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> That' my conclution too, coming from 10900k 5.5ghz with 4700mhz sub 35ns memory.
> 
> Funny part is that I'm using most of the time a 3.5 years old delidded 7980xe 4.7ghz ~50ns latency. Fast enough for 3440x1440 144hz gaming in Battlefield












just noticed

gskill must be finally releasing the 4400c17 kit. that bdie dr

and that 4800c17-19?? micron?? bdie??

the 4533c17 bdie DR only works on bios equivalent to 0611 apex or older. not the current one.

just doing some test without fan etc to confirm.


----------



## YaqY

4800 kit is bdie.


----------



## skullbringer

After updating to latest m12a bios, my 11700K is SP75 again, so that's cool and I re-tried to get highest CB20 stable static OC.

even though I give my chip plenty of vcore and temps are fine, the CPU keeps downclocking individual cores to 5 GHz about halfway through CB20 and shortly thereafter crashes with clock_watchdog_timeout.

anyone seen this behavior before, know how to fix this?


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> After updating to latest m12a bios, my 11700K is SP75 again, so that's cool and I re-tried to get highest CB20 stable static OC.
> 
> even though I give my chip plenty of vcore and temps are fine, the CPU keeps downclocking individual cores to 5 GHz about halfway through CB20 and shortly thereafter crashes with clock_watchdog_timeout.
> 
> anyone seen this behavior before, know how to fix this?
> 
> View attachment 2485210


seek @Falkentyne

intel cpu testers told him alot of things

and he really into this kindda stuff

btw u disabled svid??


----------



## YaqY

skullbringer said:


> After updating to latest m12a bios, my 11700K is SP75 again, so that's cool and I re-tried to get highest CB20 stable static OC.
> 
> even though I give my chip plenty of vcore and temps are fine, the CPU keeps downclocking individual cores to 5 GHz about halfway through CB20 and shortly thereafter crashes with clock_watchdog_timeout.
> 
> anyone seen this behavior before, know how to fix this?
> 
> View attachment 2485210


Disable the TVB settings in bios, this might help. Also you can see throttle reason in hwinfo "IA Max Turbo Limit".


----------



## YaqY

@cstkl1 What voltages did you run in this vdimm/sa/io/vtt? Trying to help a mate on xii apex stabilise 5333 djr sr.


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> seek @Falkentyne
> 
> intel cpu testers told him alot of things
> 
> and he really into this kindda stuff
> 
> btw u disabled svid??


was just trying to disable svid to see if it does something



YaqY said:


> Disable the TVB settings in bios, this might help. Also you can see throttle reason in hwinfo "IA Max Turbo Limit".


cheers for pointing that out, had not seen that. but still it happens, even when I disable tvb in bios and also all other boost settings, except the ones needed for higher than base frequency

I've also set maximum power envelopes to 4095 W, temps to 115 and current cap at 140 %, still triggers the same IA: max turbo limit 🤔


----------



## 2500k_2

@cstkl1
Can you find the time to test different frame sets in games?
I would like to compare 3733 cl14 *double rank bdie* gear 1 vs 4533 cl17 *double rank bdie* gear2 vs 5066 cl 20 *single rank djr* gear2
Interesting games where there is a benchmark - _*Shadow of the Tomb Raider*_ ,* Assassin’s Creed Valhalla*
, *Horizon Zero Dawn*. \ (720 p min presset).
You will give the answers that are of interest to many. If it's over you find the time.


----------



## 2500k_2

YaqY said:


> @cstkl1 What voltages did you run in this vdimm/sa/io/vtt? Trying to help a mate on xii apex stabilise 5333 djr sr.
> View attachment 2485211


This post is cstkl1 .i just took a screenshot


----------



## Bexak

Is this above or below average for a 11900k?


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> @cstkl1 What voltages did you run in this vdimm/sa/io/vtt? Trying to help a mate on xii apex stabilise 5333 djr sr.
> View attachment 2485211


1.75, sa 1.35, mcio 1.45


----------



## cstkl1

Bexak said:


> Is this above or below average for a 11900k?


its now looking like this is the above avg for 11900k retail

so guessing the insane one will be crazy


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> @cstkl1
> Can you find the time to test different frame sets in games?
> I would like to compare 3733 cl14 *double rank bdie* gear 1 vs 4533 cl17 *double rank bdie* gear2 vs 5066 cl 20 *single rank djr* gear2
> Interesting games where there is a benchmark - _*Shadow of the Tomb Raider*_ ,* Assassin’s Creed Valhalla*
> , *Horizon Zero Dawn*. \ (720 p min presset).
> You will give the answers that are of interest to many. If it's over you find the time.


thats alot of time dude. dont have time for that..

3866c14 dr 1:1 vs 4533c17 1:2 vs 5066c19 DR 1:2 vs 5333c20 SR 1:2
(the last one gave the kit to a friend atm)

theres few settings still wip and way higher
5200c20 dr, 4666c17, 4kc14 1:1 (this i might just forget it cause its insane on sa:io for tight)


----------



## bigcid10

bigcid10 said:


> I'm sorry,I made a mistake on the cooler part
> It was 181


seem that all the CTD that I get is from when I try to set CR1 from default (CR2)
is there any way to better tune this 3600 b-die memory from stock
gskill TridentZ F4-3600C16D-32GTZR 16-16-16-36
any help would be appreciated, Thank you


----------



## cstkl1

0703 bios better in latency

can giga and msi or asrock catchup to this??


----------



## ldt

cstkl1 said:


> 0703 bios better in latency
> 
> can giga and msi or asrock catchup to this??
> View attachment 2485221


Can you share me this Bios version? Thanks !


----------



## i9forever

ldt said:


> Can you share me this Bios version? Thanks !


Maximus XIII Series Megathread / Discussion | Page 4 | Overclock.net


----------



## IronAge

ldt said:


> Can you share me this Bios version? Thanks !











ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0703.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## kalston

Second https://media.discordapp.net/attach...38493597706/IMG_0264.jpg?width=808&height=606

And that's actually at stock. Seriously ***? That was not during stress tests, both times during very light gaming (1 core loaded mostly, and not fully). Stress tests actually seem fine.

11900k / Asus Z590 Strix E with Intel limits ON and XMP ON with a kit that's on the QVL (exact same reference). I have the latest BIOS for the board but it's a beta and maybe that's my mistake. But the BIOS I got out the box did not even offer XMP so I felt obliged to upgrade.


----------



## Bexak

kalston said:


> Second https://media.discordapp.net/attach...38493597706/IMG_0264.jpg?width=808&height=606
> 
> And that's actually at stock. Seriously ***? That was not during stress tests, both times during very light gaming (1 core loaded mostly, and not fully). Stress tests actually seem fine.
> 
> 11900k / Asus Z590 Strix E with Intel limits ON and XMP ON with a kit that's on the QVL (exact same reference). I have the latest BIOS for the board but it's a beta and maybe that's my mistake. But the BIOS I got out the box did not even offer XMP so I felt obliged to upgrade.


That sucks. I'd open a thread in another part of the forum if you need troubleshooting help, as this is the thread for overclocking/bins etc, not for faulty/unstable at stock systems.


----------



## Encode_GR

Hey guys, i need your opinion on my overclock. I'm on a MAXIMUS XIII Hero with i7-11700K.

My SP (63) is not particularly good, oh well, so i couldn't push it too much, and i'm on an air cooler, yet decent one (Noctua NH-U12A). I'm a bit woried about the voltage. I played around with By Core Usage ratios and V/F on LLC 4 a bit but not sure. Would that overclock around ~1.38-1.39V be stable for *daily* usage for a few years ? RKL seems to like higher voltage, but i really don't want to degrade my chip.

Right now i'm on 1:1. I'm also gonna try 1:2 for RAM for higher clocks, however i'm ok with the 3600 CL15 with ~46ns latency for now.
(Kit: HyperX Predator - KHX3600C17D4/8GX - SR).


----------



## nievz

One of the few reviewers who is a true gamer.


----------



## Nizzen

nievz said:


> One of the few reviewers who is a true gamer.


OpiumTech?


----------



## Nizzen

Nizzen said:


> 4400c17 2x16 tweaked
> 
> Maybe I need to have a tweaked windows to get higher, or 5950x LOL
> 
> Need to compare this results with Hynix memory later.
> 
> HT=on
> View attachment 2485108
> 
> HT=off
> View attachment 2485113
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like HT= off still is a thing


Tombraider on my Stock! 5900x and 3600c14 tweaked memory. F-M-L, 11900k is bad compared to Ryzen 3 in Tombraider


----------



## Kana Chan

cstkl1 said:


> stock cpu/stock gpu/rebar/4800c19/cstate on/Optimized windows lol








TechnologyGuide


Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




forum.notebookreview.com




have you tried these by any chance?


----------



## mount333

Nizzen said:


> Tombraider on my Stock! 5900x and 3600c14 tweaked memory. F-M-L, 11900k is bad compared to Ryzen 3 in Tombraider


unfortunately, it looks like 11900K is fun for OC only.


----------



## aznguyen316

Encode_GR said:


> Hey guys, i need your opinion on my overclock. I'm on a MAXIMUS XIII Hero with i7-11700K.
> 
> My SP (63) is not particularly good, oh well, so i couldn't push it too much, and i'm on an air cooler, yet decent one (Noctua NH-U12A). I'm a bit woried about the voltage. I played around with By Core Usage ratios and V/F on LLC 4 a bit but not sure. Would that overclock around ~1.38-1.39V be stable for *daily* usage for a few years ? RKL seems to like higher voltage, but i really don't want to degrade my chip.
> 
> Right now i'm on 1:1. I'm also gonna try 1:2 for RAM for higher clocks, however i'm ok with the 3600 CL15 with ~46ns latency for now.
> (Kit: HyperX Predator - KHX3600C17D4/8GX - SR).
> 
> View attachment 2485240
> View attachment 2485242
> View attachment 2485243
> View attachment 2485244
> 
> View attachment 2485246
> View attachment 2485247
> View attachment 2485248


Hey I have a similar set up. I think for 11700k that sp is pretty decent. I did see a really high one but I had a 57 and it does okay so far overclocking. I have 1.45V bios set LLC5 for 49x with two cores 52x. So far in gaming it’s been fine and the specific core boost is nice. During load it drops down a lot on full load and during horizon zero dawn the load is pretty light. Below 100w and hangs around 1.4Vcore gaming. 

Temps with 360mm AIO while gaming 2 hour session averaged around 59-61C with a 3070 at 63C. 3440x1440 



Here is an Intel rep answering an AMA on Reddit regarding voltages. 

“The ideal voltage to reach the maximum OC frequency for a given cooling solution does change with new architectures.
Intel does not publish safe OC voltages as any voltage change is considered outside of specifications. However, when I get a RKL in my home system I will keep the voltages around 1.45v. Also, I will use the AVX offset knobs.”
-Dan R.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/memyfv/_/gstkeas


----------



## Arni90

nievz said:


> One of the few reviewers who is a true gamer.


While the title is a bit clickbaity, his conclusions regarding Z590 vs B560 and 11900K vs the 11700 non-K are probably spot on. The only reason to consider Z590 is the I/O options and looks, and a good B560 board (for example the B560 Tomahawk or Strix B560-F) will probably cover most people's needs perfectly fine.

Even with my MO-RA3 keeping water temperatures in the low 20s, it's impossible to run my 11900K at higher than 5100 MHz stable on all cores, at which point I might as well run Intel ABT. I can bench 5200 MHz just fine, and even 5300 in some cases, but the only way to prevent OCCT from throwing errors at 5200 MHz was to increase load voltage past 1.40V (at which point it hit mid-high 90s at night with water temps in the low 10s)
Sure, I'm hitting 5.1 GHz on all cores instead of the 4.5 GHz an 11700F would hit, but that's barely 10%


----------



## Steve_R

Is this safe voltage while gaming?


----------



## Encode_GR

aznguyen316 said:


> Hey I have a similar set up. I think for 11700k that sp is pretty decent. I did see a really high one but I had a 57 and it does okay so far overclocking. I have 1.45V bios set LLC5 for 49x with two cores 52x. So far in gaming it’s been fine and the specific core boost is nice. During load it drops down a lot on full load and during horizon zero dawn the load is pretty light. Below 100w and hangs around 1.4Vcore gaming.
> 
> Temps with 360mm AIO while gaming 2 hour session averaged around 59-61C with a 3070 at 63C. 3440x1440
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an Intel rep answering an AMA on Reddit regarding voltages.
> 
> “The ideal voltage to reach the maximum OC frequency for a given cooling solution does change with new architectures.
> Intel does not publish safe OC voltages as any voltage change is considered outside of specifications. However, when I get a RKL in my home system I will keep the voltages around 1.45v. Also, I will use the AVX offset knobs.”
> -Dan R.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/memyfv/_/gstkeas


Thank you for the details mate. I will aim for 1.40v - 1.45v i guess then. Will test for 52x 2-core too.
One thing i just noticed though, is that Vcore jumps to *1.52v* from time to time, my guess is due to AVX-512 instructions that some benchmarks have. It happened for example while running Geekbench CPU Benchmark, i think during the "machine learning" test. The strange thing however is that this shouldn't happen, since i have the "Auto Voltage Cap" for CPU Vcore set to 1.450.


----------



## Falkentyne

Steve_R said:


> Is this safe voltage while gaming?
> View attachment 2485259


Your voltages aren't showing. And use Hwinfo64 not hwmonitor.
Common beginner mistake here.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> Any pictures of this?


Another one.


----------



## truth hurts

any tips on how to get 4800 ram or 3733 working?


----------



## aznguyen316

Lurker calling out OCN on gear 2 mode. 23min mark or so


----------



## Nizzen

aznguyen316 said:


> Lurker calling out OCN on gear 2 mode. 23min mark or so


I'm the first idiot there LOL


----------



## CallMeODZ

that guys a class act, charges 500 usd for a consult, recommends the user buy all the hardware he is familiar with then provides timings 
him and buildzoid need to have a fist fight to settle the score once and for all as to who can create the best 40-minute video that a simple image with 10 bullet points could cover, a meme could get more of a point across


----------



## Steve_R

Safe voltage?


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> 4800 kit is bdie.


How do you know this for sure?


----------



## Falkentyne

Steve_R said:


> Safe voltage?
> View attachment 2485314
> View attachment 2485315


It's showing max clocks of 5100 mhz and max voltage of 1.462v.
But this chart doesn't show what the LOAD Voltage is. Because if it was really 1.462v at full load at 5.1 ghz, you would NOT have a CPU temp max of 63C. Assuming you actually put a decent load on it it would be way beyond 63C. You would need a custom loop to keep it that cool otherwise.

Please run something like Cinebench R23, and while it's running, give us another screenshot of your "CPU Clock" and "Vcore" sections (NOT VID, but vcore!) with CB R23 actively running. Then we will see. Good work getting hwinfo though.


----------



## Falkentyne

Steve_R said:


> Safe voltage?
> View attachment 2485314
> View attachment 2485315


Ok, you sent me a private message showing me _IDLE_ CPU voltages and speeds, with a completed Cinebench R23 run. I told you to take a picture _DURING_ the run, not AFTER the run.
Your CPU slows down to 800 mhz when the run is complete, and 0.70v. This is unhelpful. I need to see what your CPU frequency and voltage is _DURING_ the run (in the "current" field), not after the run. Because your voltage will drop at load (compared to 1.468v), but I don't know how much it will drop.

Your performance is normal and this is considered stock operation, but it's impossible for me to answer your question "if your voltage is safe or not".


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Another one.
> View attachment 2485280


I wonder how it's possible to do 4133 MHz in 1:1, whether it's stable and look at the timings.

Good IMC? Board? Super high SA/IO?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> I wonder how it's possible to do 4133 MHz in 1:1, whether it's stable and look at the timings.
> 
> Good IMC? Board? Super high SA/IO?


Just need a good chip.


----------



## Arni90

CallMeODZ said:


> that guys a class act, charges 500 usd for a consult, recommends the user buy all the hardware he is familiar with then provides timings
> him and buildzoid need to have a fist fight to settle the score once and for all as to who can create the best 40-minute video that a simple image with 10 bullet points could cover, a meme could get more of a point across


While they both ramble a lot, buildzoid does at least test stuff and will learn from his experiences (unless it's Gigabyte which he seemingly will defend to death).
FC seems to be hung up on AIDA64 memory latency without any understanding of what it represents, it's *far *from an all-encompassing metric of gaming performance.


----------



## Bilco

So what do we think the safe daily driving with about 70C max is for core voltage and SA/IO?

I was able to get near 3700mhz gear 1 on bdie wtih some decent timings but I am at 1.36SA/IO and am going to try to work on backing them down some. What should be the goal for that?


----------



## Encode_GR

Regarding Asus Z590 Hero board + 11700K. 
I'm afraid i have to give up on Auto Voltage with V/F Curve. I love the Auto Voltage + By Core Usage + V/F Curve, but i'm getting *terrible *coil whine from the VRMs.
All that Vcore fluctuation...

Already tried disabling C-States, which works, but the OC by core usage gets messed up and locked at the lowest core ratio.
Manual / Fixed Voltage works as well, no coil whine at all.
Last thing i need to try is to play around with *VRM Switching Frequency* in Bios. Might do something if i raise it at the cost of efficiency and temps.
God i hate it when those things happen.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Encode_GR said:


> Regarding Asus Z590 Hero board + 11700K.
> I'm afraid i have to give up on Auto Voltage with V/F Curve. I love the Auto Voltage + By Core Usage + V/F Curve, but i'm getting *terrible *coil whine from the VRMs.


a coil whine this early?? wow..maybe BIOS/firmware/microcode needs to mature a bit..


----------



## Encode_GR

kairi_zeroblade said:


> a coil whine this early?? wow..maybe BIOS/firmware/microcode needs to mature a bit..


I've been testing it 3 days in a row. It just doesn't like Vcore fluctuations.

Idle = Vcore is minimum. No coil whine
Bench / Stress Test = .Vcore is maxed. No Coil whine
Idle + Mouse Movement = Vcore Changes. Constant coil whine
Basically anything that is not in either Max or Min VCore, causes coil whine.
Again, anything that is running with stabilized Vcore, no coil whine at all.
I know right, this thing drives me crazy.


----------



## menko2

MikeBVG said:


> [QUOTE = "menko2, publicación: 28764664, miembro: 22053"]
> Parece que el 30 también estaremos recibiendo la BIOS y Vbios para BAR.
> 
> Espero que estén incluidos en la BIOS para el lanzamiento de Rocket Lake.
> [/CITA]
> 
> Hola, tengo la misma configuración de placa y 10850k, ¿podría decirme cómo overclockear manualmente esta placa?


I have the voltage of the core at 1.31v and all core frequency at 5.1ghz. "Yo tengo el voltage de la bios en 1.31v y todos los núcleos a 5.1ghz."

Which SP value gives you the bios of your cpu? "Que valor de SP te da la bios sobre tu núcleo?"

RAM overclock es más complicado. Depende de las memorias que tengas. "RAM oc is more complicated. It's depends of the modules you have".


Im spanish but I don't know if we can only post in english in the forum 

Edit: MarkBVG you should post this in the 10900k overclock post. This is for 11700k-11900k


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Encode_GR said:


> I've been testing it 3 days in a row. It just doesn't like Vcore fluctuations.
> 
> Idle = Vcore is minimum. No coil whine
> Bench / Stress Test = .Vcore is maxed. No Coil whine
> Idle + Mouse Movement = Vcore Changes. Constant coil whine
> Basically anything that is not in either Max or Min VCore, causes coil whine.
> Again, anything that is running with stabilized Vcore, no coil whine at all.
> I know right, this thing drives me crazy.


maybe software regulation (or a BIOS update) needs rework or something..hmm this is the 1st time I see that behavior..eventually you are not OC'd (on the CPU) right??


----------



## Encode_GR

kairi_zeroblade said:


> maybe software regulation (or a BIOS update) needs rework or something..hmm this is the 1st time I see that behavior..eventually you are not OC'd (on the CPU) right??


Well, i hope so.
I am. I was running Auto VCore, ratios By Core Usage 52-52-50-50-49-49-49-49 with offsets at V/F Curve before.
Now i switched to Manual Vcore ~1.4v, ratios Sync All Core 49x, to relax from that coil whine


----------



## flyleaf_

So I really did get lucky this time around? 


















Bios 0704, didn't change since installing it. Was quite hyped about the score and V/F curve but after a first quick try, it doesn't seem to be that good. 1.4v in BIOS + LLC4 @5.1GHz isn't even CB20 multicore stable.



Encode_GR said:


> I've been testing it 3 days in a row. It just doesn't like Vcore fluctuations.
> 
> Idle = Vcore is minimum. No coil whine
> Bench / Stress Test = .Vcore is maxed. No Coil whine
> Idle + Mouse Movement = Vcore Changes. Constant coil whine
> Basically anything that is not in either Max or Min VCore, causes coil whine.
> Again, anything that is running with stabilized Vcore, no coil whine at all.
> I know right, this thing drives me crazy.


Getting exactly the same issue with the Hero XIII and a 11900k, really annoying especially because even the Intel CPUs are now better tuned with dynamic OCs and not the oldschool sync all cores. 

Just one thing to give us a bit of hope got the same issue with an early Z490 Bios on the Formula, later BIOS updates fixed the noise completely. Maybe the software voltage control for the vcore isn't all that matured as of now.


----------



## Ikaros007

Guys I have very hard time to play my sticks without problems..
I have Asus z590 e gaming 
11700k 
And patriot Viper Steel @4400
Any suggestions??
And where is the gear 1,gear 2 option at Asus bios? Can't find it...


----------



## aznguyen316

Ikaros007 said:


> Guys I have very hard time to play my sticks without problems..
> I have Asus z590 e gaming
> 11700k
> And patriot Viper Steel @4400
> Any suggestions??
> And where is the gear 1,gear 2 option at Asus bios? Can't find it...


Above dram frequency setting. 

1:1 is gear 1 and 1:2 is gear 2


----------



## Falkentyne

flyleaf_ said:


> So I really did get lucky this time around?
> View attachment 2485355
> 
> 
> View attachment 2485356
> 
> 
> Bios 0704, didn't change since installing it. Was quite hyped about the score and V/F curve but after a first quick try, it doesn't seem to be that good. 1.4v in BIOS + LLC4 @5.1GHz isn't even CB20 multicore stable.
> 
> 
> Getting exactly the same issue with the Hero XIII and a 11900k, really annoying especially because even the Intel CPUs are now better tuned with dynamic OCs and not the oldschool sync all cores.
> 
> Just one thing to give us a bit of hope got the same issue with an early Z490 Bios on the Formula, later BIOS updates fixed the noise completely. Maybe the software voltage control for the vcore isn't all that matured as of now.


What is the avx prediction for 5.1 ghz LLC4?

1.40 set in bios LLC4 is going to be like 1.25v load. That's sort of optimistic.


----------



## flyleaf_

Falkentyne said:


> What is the avx prediction for 5.1 ghz LLC4?
> 
> 1.40 set in bios LLC4 is going to be like 1.25v load. That's sort of optimistic.


I did try with -2 AVX offset, 5.1 non-avx was predicted to be 1.38v LLC4. 
Currently running 5.0 without AVX offset at 1.385v in BIOS LLC4. It did pass 30min RealBench and Prime Non-AVX, guess I'll just use this until a new, non-beta BIOS comes out.


----------



## truth hurts

flyleaf_ said:


> So I really did get lucky this time around?
> View attachment 2485355
> 
> 
> View attachment 2485356
> 
> 
> Bios 0704, didn't change since installing it. Was quite hyped about the score and V/F curve but after a first quick try, it doesn't seem to be that good. 1.4v in BIOS + LLC4 @5.1GHz isn't even CB20 multicore stable.
> 
> 
> Getting exactly the same issue with the Hero XIII and a 11900k, really annoying especially because even the Intel CPUs are now better tuned with dynamic OCs and not the oldschool sync all cores.
> 
> Just one thing to give us a bit of hope got the same issue with an early Z490 Bios on the Formula, later BIOS updates fixed the noise completely. Maybe the software voltage control for the vcore isn't all that matured as of now.


Update to 2101 , set 1.4v LLC7 5.3ghz will r23 all day on sp85 so should be no problem on yours


----------



## Encode_GR

flyleaf_ said:


> Just one thing to give us a bit of hope got the same issue with an early Z490 Bios on the Formula, later BIOS updates fixed the noise completely. Maybe the software voltage control for the vcore isn't all that matured as of now.


Ah, that's good to hear ! I hope there will be some kind of fix in later Bios, my brain can't ignore its whining frequency X_x
It's like the motherboard is tracking my mouse xD


----------



## flyleaf_

truth hurts said:


> Update to 2101 , set 1.4v LLC7 5.3ghz will r23 all day on sp85 so should be no problem on yours


2101 is a way older version according to the ASUS website or do I miss something?


----------



## unclewebb

Can someone with an Asus board running a recent BIOS version show me what microcode version your 11th Gen CPU is using? HWiNFO can be used to report this information. Trying to help a friend with a Clevo laptop that has a Z590 board and an 11900K. His AIDA memory read and L3 cache read numbers are terrible.


----------



## aznguyen316

unclewebb said:


> Can someone with an Asus board running a recent BIOS version show me what microcode version your 11th Gen CPU is using? HWiNFO can be used to report this information. Trying to help a friend with a Clevo laptop that has a Z590 board and an 11900K. His AIDA memory read and L3 cache read numbers are terrible.
> 
> View attachment 2485379



Sure.


----------



## Encode_GR

I think i can confirm there is a bug in Z590 Hero Bios, with power saving when OCing using "By Core Usage".
After extensive testing i found that:


"*Sync All Core*" 50x + Auto Voltage = NO Coil Whine (C-States = Auto).
"*By Core Usage*" 50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x + Auto Voltage = CONSTANT Coil Whine. (C-States = Auto)

The above two OC configurations should result into the same thing, same clocks, same voltage applied. Only "By Core Usage" though results in constant coil whine.

Few Things About "By Core Usage":
It's weird that while all "high performance" / "balanced" / "power save" modes in Windows behave as they should in term of clock speeds (meaning while idle, either: Full Speed / Base Clock / Minimum Clock ), in terms of voltage there is some strange behaviour, resulting in voltage drops to 0.666v in EVERY profile.


----------



## bigcid10

Ok,been playing with this new setup for the past few days and learning
Got the gskill 3600 b-dies at 4000
Need some advice from the elders,lol


----------



## Falkentyne

flyleaf_ said:


> I did try with -2 AVX offset, 5.1 non-avx was predicted to be 1.38v LLC4.
> Currently running 5.0 without AVX offset at 1.385v in BIOS LLC4. It did pass 30min RealBench and Prime Non-AVX, guess I'll just use this until a new, non-beta BIOS comes out.


1.385v LLC4 at 5 ghz is easy. My SP76 can pass that in Realbench 2.56 and Cinebench R20. You should try 1.350v LLC4 for your SP 97 chip for 5 ghz. That should be a better test to make sure your V/F curve isn't glitched.

Can you try R20 please at 1.50v LLC6 (not 4) at 5.2 ghz? This should pass for you (I get BSOD).


----------



## Arni90

I have no idea what's happening here, but tRFC can apparently go stupid low on RKL.
They did 225 tRFC at the same frequency on 5900X, which makes this even more silly.
Going too low still causes a hard crash, so I don't think it's a bug either.


----------



## Falkentyne

So like this guy I helped fix his overheating 10900k, goes and buys a 11900k today and corks out a SP98. Like what the living hell......

He's on a z490 maximus 12 extreme (2101) so I wonder if the SP is bugged.


----------



## flyleaf_

Falkentyne said:


> 1.385v LLC4 at 5 ghz is easy. My SP76 can pass that in Realbench 2.56 and Cinebench R20. You should try 1.350v LLC4 for your SP 97 chip for 5 ghz. That should be a better test to make sure your V/F curve isn't glitched.
> 
> Can you try R20 please at 1.50v LLC6 (not 4) at 5.2 ghz? This should pass for you (I get BSOD).


1.385v was a bit pessimistic on my part, just wanted to be stable quickly. 
I think 1.350v should work for 5.0, will try 5.2 later or tomorrow and report back.


----------



## jomama22

Encode_GR said:


> I think i can confirm there is a bug in Z590 Hero Bios, with power saving when OCing using "By Core Usage".
> After extensive testing i found that:
> 
> 
> "*Sync All Core*" 50x + Auto Voltage = NO Coil Whine (C-States = Auto).
> "*By Core Usage*" 50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x + Auto Voltage = CONSTANT Coil Whine. (C-States = Auto)
> 
> The above two OC configurations should result into the same thing, same clocks, same voltage applied. Only "By Core Usage" though results in constant coil whine.
> 
> Few Things About "By Core Usage":
> It's weird that while all "high performance" / "balanced" / "power save" modes in Windows behave as they should in term of clock speeds (meaning while idle, either: Full Speed / Base Clock / Minimum Clock ), in terms of voltage there is some strange behaviour, resulting in voltage drops to 0.666v in EVERY profile.


You should try and Manually set digi+ settings for cpu vrm to be the same under both circumstances (not using auto in there). It's possible having auto set for per core uses a different if/then for auto. It's also possible c-states are being disabled for all core sync vs per core. Should set that to either enabled or disabled. Coil whine is a repercussion of switching frequency and load through the vrms, nothing inherent to clocks.


----------



## truth hurts

unclewebb said:


> Can someone with an Asus board running a recent BIOS version show me what microcode version your 11th Gen CPU is using? HWiNFO can be used to report this information. Trying to help a friend with a Clevo laptop that has a Z590 board and an 11900K. His AIDA memory read and L3 cache read numbers are terrible.
> 
> View attachment 2485379


----------



## Encode_GR

jomama22 said:


> You should try and Manually set digi+ settings for cpu vrm to be the same under both circumstances (not using auto in there). It's possible having auto set for per core uses a different if/then for auto. It's also possible c-states are being disabled for all core sync vs per core. Should set that to either enabled or disabled. Coil whine is a repercussion of switching frequency and load through the vrms, nothing inherent to clocks.


Possibly, yes, even though i had set *Spread Spectrum = Disabled* and *Switching Frequency = 500*, in both configurations. Anyway, if that's the case for C-States or VRMs it's still a Bios issue and incorrect Auto settings, because windows power modes don't behave as they should when By Core Usage OC. Voltages go all over the place and drop to 0.666v under "High Performance". Even under gaming the coil whine (not GPU coil whine) is the same, perhaps even worse. I can't find any pattern as to what's wrong but It looks really buggy. I'm pretty sure something is messed up, regarding the power saving in relation to voltage.

While All-Core OC is absolutely perfect, and power modes works exactly as expected.


----------



## flyleaf_

Falkentyne said:


> Can you try R20 please at 1.50v LLC6 (not 4) at 5.2 ghz? This should pass for you (I get BSOD).


Did one R20 run and it finished without BSOD or WHEA errors but was really close to thermal throttling.


----------



## Falkentyne

flyleaf_ said:


> Did one R20 run and it finished without BSOD or WHEA errors but was really close to thermal throttling.


Nice chip. Your SP is accurate then.
Congratulations on that winner. (I can game stable at 5.2 ghz 1.510v LLC6 (even passes Battlefield 5 nonstop and Minecraft !) but CB R20 BSOD's no matter what I do. Max I can R20 is 5.1 ghz). Mine is SP76 ES. and apparently not as good as @cstkl1 's SP76 ES  even though we seem to have the same v/f curve. Ouch.


----------



## Arni90

flyleaf_ said:


> Did one R20 run and it finished without BSOD or WHEA errors but was really close to thermal throttling.


This was done at 1.50V VCore and LLC6, a good 15C away from thermal throttling.










Though my loop is cooled by a MO-RA3 with 4x NF-A20 at 400 RPM

EDIT: my chip is SP 84


----------



## flyleaf_

Arni90 said:


> This was done at 1.50V VCore and LLC6, a good 15C away from thermal throttling.
> 
> View attachment 2485404
> 
> 
> Though my loop is cooled by a MO-RA3 with 4x NF-A20 at 400 RPM
> 
> EDIT: my chip is SP 84


I'm just using a 360 Corsair AIO right now, water temp was like 33° while running CB20 so this makes sense.


----------



## Emmett

I still have my SP 55 chip. I believe it showed SP 55 with MXIII Hero bios 703. if it still shows same SP with 704 (Beta) should I consider it accurate? 
I still have about a week to return it. Maybe Another BIOS will be out by then. Or shop Exchange if they get more stock.
I have 3 of these, from two different shops, and all same batch #. LOL.
The third is still sealed, thinking about just returning IT also. I fear it's gonna be a 6? something.


----------



## Falkentyne

flyleaf_ said:


> I'm just using a 360 Corsair AIO right now, water temp was like 33° while running CB20 so this makes sense.


K that guy's chip is an SP87, after he flashed his M12E with latest manually patched microcode with USBflashback.
So same as yours. Both winners, both better than mine  Good job.


----------



## Arni90

Just passed 30 minutes of CB R23 at 5.2 GHz all core, this should be quite stable long-term I believe?
Batch: X102K522
LLC4, the option for syncing AC/DC loadline to LLC was disabled, so I added 0.015V to V/F point 6 and 7


----------



## aznguyen316

Emmett said:


> I still have my SP 55 chip. I believe it showed SP 55 with MXIII Hero bios 703. if it still shows same SP with 704 (Beta) should I consider it accurate?
> I still have about a week to return it. Maybe Another BIOS will be out by then. Or shop Exchange if they get more stock.
> I have 3 of these, from two different shops, and all same batch #. LOL.
> The third is still sealed, thinking about just returning IT also. I fear it's gonna be a 6? something.


It might change. I had taken my 11700k out which was sp57 and put in a 10900k to run some tests. Swapped back in the 11700k and it showed sp63 with slightly different VF curve all on the same 0704 BIOS. VF curve not big enough change really for me to change the OC I have on it right now.


----------



## FlanK3r

guys, tested someone Microns-E on Z490? I had issues with stability, can not get to the OS on 4533 MHz, 4800 MHz no post. Kits are Crucial balistix max 5100 MHz. On AMD working fine...


----------



## karate

FlanK3r said:


> guys, tested someone Microns-E on Z490? I had issues with stability, can not get to the OS on 4533 MHz, 4800 MHz no post. Kits are Crucial balistix max 5100 MHz. On AMD working fine...


Same problems use 4400 kit in z490 2x16gb. Can reach OS but can not stable will definintely lock from ram test. 4266 not have problem if standard timings.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

I got some more parts in and was able to do some testing. Dont laugh this is quick and dirty. It is stable in Prime 4 hours so far. I haven't let it run more than that because I was going to try to find max OC. I already know 1.456v on CPU is thermal max.









RAM still wont stop getting rounding errors in 8 mins with just XMP profile enabled. The first Kit was G-skill 32 gig 18 cas non B-die 200$ Kit WAS in fact trash as someone here pointed out. Got F4-4000C16D-32GTZR's which are B-dies Still wont run 4000Mhz @ XMP profile settings. 
Not very happy about a 400$ kit not running XMP out of the box even with SA voltage upped and MemOC IO upped. Also tried upping the CPU IO a bit still no joy. Anyone have any advice? It would be highly appreciated  I need sleep......


----------



## i9forever

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I got some more parts in and was able to do some testing. Dont laugh this is quick and dirty. It is stable in Prime 4 hours so far. I haven't let it run more than that because I was going to try to find max OC. I already know 1.456v on CPU is thermal max.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RAM still wont stop getting rounding errors in 8 mins with just XMP profile enabled. The first Kit was G-skill 32 gig 18 cas non B-die 200$ Kit WAS in fact trash as someone here pointed out. Got F4-4000C16D-32GTZR's which are B-dies Still wont run 4000Mhz @ XMP profile settings.
> Not very happy about a 400$ kit not running XMP out of the box even with SA voltage upped and MemOC IO upped. Also tried upping the CPU IO a bit still no joy. Anyone have any advice? It would be highly appreciated  I need sleep......


I have the same 4000C16D-32GTZR kit, working no problem on XMP, even on 4266 tuned. Whats your VCCIO VCCSA and VCCIO mem?


----------



## Ex0duS5150

i9forever said:


> I have the same 4000C16D-32GTZR kit, working no problem on XMP, even on 4266 tuned. Whats your VCCIO VCCSA and VCCIO mem?


I was afraid of this. I think something maybe wrong with CPU memcontroller or board then. Second kit that will not run XMP at all. F*#&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your reply i9forever










This is on ASUS z590 Strix Gaming A board. Anyone have any Idea why this is happening to me other than I have zero luck? Ugh!!


----------



## Bilco

karate said:


> Same problems use 4400 kit in z490 2x16gb. Can reach OS but can not stable will definintely lock from ram test. 4266 not have problem if standard timings.


I can't do that on my z490 godlike unless the SA/IO is 1.55 which is insane, I think it's just bios compatibility.


----------



## cstkl1

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I was afraid of this. I think something maybe wrong with CPU memcontroller or board then. Second kit that will not run XMP at all. F*#&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Thanks for your reply i9forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is on ASUS z590 Strix Gaming A board. Anyone have any Idea why this is happening to me other than I have zero luck? Ugh!!


set
xmp
100:133
1:2
mc io/sa 1.05/1.2


----------



## Ex0duS5150

cstkl1 said:


> set
> xmp
> 100:133
> 1:2
> mc io/sa 1.05/1.2


I will try those settings as well thanks for your input !

Currently testing another run on Prime95 large 800-1600 FFTs 6mins upped CPU SA "a few notches". Passed 15mins when before crash at 8mins. I need to go to sleep, lol have not had much lately. Also have not had my head in a BIOS for 6years now as you can see by my sig. So im lost to say the least and should do a ton more reading.

Thanks for taking time to reply cstkl1


----------



## aznguyen316

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I will try those settings as well thanks for your input !
> 
> Currently testing another run on Prime95 large 800-1600 FFTs 6mins upped CPU SA "a few notches". Passed 15mins when before crash at 8mins. I need to go to sleep, lol have not had much lately. Also have not had my head in a BIOS for 6years now as you can see by my sig. So im lost to say the least and should do a ton more reading.
> 
> Thanks for taking time to reply cstkl1


For getting an understanding on the BIOS, watch some of scatterbench's videos on YT. he has a recent rocket lake one with an asus board and there are a couple others with some asus BIOS to cover various things like adaptive voltage, VF curve, etc. May not help too much for your memory kit, but at least you can see what some of the BIOS settings are for. Good luck!


----------



## cstkl1

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I will try those settings as well thanks for your input !
> 
> Currently testing another run on Prime95 large 800-1600 FFTs 6mins upped CPU SA "a few notches". Passed 15mins when before crash at 8mins. I need to go to sleep, lol have not had much lately. Also have not had my head in a BIOS for 6years now as you can see by my sig. So im lost to say the least and should do a ton more reading.
> 
> Thanks for taking time to reply cstkl1


try this

ignore the multi/add








set
100:133
1:2
4266
vdimm 1.45 or 1.5

with mcio 1.05 , sa 1.2

16-17-36 leave cmd auto
trfc set either 265 or 280 or 296
trefi max it out
go to memory algo
set round trip latency enabled

third timing
trdrd _dd/dr -4/4
twrwr _dd/dr -7/7
twrrd _dd/dr -4/4
mrc fast boot enabled


----------



## Ex0duS5150

aznguyen316 said:


> For getting an understanding on the BIOS, watch some of scatterbench's videos on YT. he has a recent rocket lake one with an asus board and there are a couple others with some asus BIOS to cover various things like adaptive voltage, VF curve, etc. May not help too much for your memory kit, but at least you can see what some of the BIOS settings are for. Good luck!


Yes! I have him bookmarked and have watched some of his content. Only reason Ive made it this far is the reading of these forums and his videos , I got from this forum. lolz Thanks aznguyen316.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

cstkl1 said:


> try this
> 
> ignore the multi/add
> View attachment 2485438
> 
> set
> 100:133
> 1:2
> 4266
> vdimm 1.45 or 1.5
> 16-17-36 leave cmd auto
> with mcio 1.05 , sa 1.2
> trfc set either 265 or 280 or 296
> trefi max it out
> go to memory algo
> set round trip latency enabled
> 
> third timing
> trdrd _dd/dr -4/4
> twrwr _dd/dr -7/7
> twrrd _dd/dr -4/4
> mrc fast boot enabled


I had to take one last look at my run and saw only one worker with a rounding error not all workers stopped so its getting closer. I am currently on another run with the voltages you set forth.

I will also set these timings and alter the other settings youve provided cstkl1. Again I really appreciate the help !

EDIT: ok I need sleep back at it tomorrow, thanks again.


----------



## cstkl1

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I had to take one last look at my run and saw only one worker with a rounding error not all workers stopped so its getting closer. I am currently on another run with the voltages you set forth.
> 
> I will also set these timings and alter the other settings youve provided cstkl1. Again I really appreciate the help !
> 
> EDIT: ok I need sleep back at it tomorrow, thanks again.


run cpu at stock first. i havent seen any indication of cpu oc needing to adjust ram related voltage up to 5.2 cache 46


----------



## shamino1978

my point of view is that you should validate stability of xmp first on auto voltages first then trim down manually after.


----------



## Carls_Car

Encode_GR said:


> I've been testing it 3 days in a row. It just doesn't like Vcore fluctuations.
> 
> Idle = Vcore is minimum. No coil whine
> Bench / Stress Test = .Vcore is maxed. No Coil whine
> Idle + Mouse Movement = Vcore Changes. Constant coil whine
> Basically anything that is not in either Max or Min VCore, causes coil whine.
> Again, anything that is running with stabilized Vcore, no coil whine at all.
> I know right, this thing drives me crazy.


My z390 Asus board had awful coil whine in the exact way you’re describing. I went with Gigabyte this time around. Dead silent.


----------



## wuttman

Nizzen said:


> F-M-L, 11900k is bad compared to Ryzen 3 in Tombraider


Can you please run sottr with maxed out quality settings and 2k resolution, minus motion blur and rtx? I'm interested in cpu game numbers. Or anyone else with the rocket lake.


----------



## shamino1978

Encode_GR said:


> I think i can confirm there is a bug in Z590 Hero Bios, with power saving when OCing using "By Core Usage".
> After extensive testing i found that:
> 
> 
> "*Sync All Core*" 50x + Auto Voltage = NO Coil Whine (C-States = Auto).
> "*By Core Usage*" 50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x-50x + Auto Voltage = CONSTANT Coil Whine. (C-States = Auto)
> 
> The above two OC configurations should result into the same thing, same clocks, same voltage applied. Only "By Core Usage" though results in constant coil whine.
> 
> Few Things About "By Core Usage":
> It's weird that while all "high performance" / "balanced" / "power save" modes in Windows behave as they should in term of clock speeds (meaning while idle, either: Full Speed / Base Clock / Minimum Clock ), in terms of voltage there is some strange behaviour, resulting in voltage drops to 0.666v in EVERY profile.


can u try this bios to see if the whine is still there?








ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0037.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Encode_GR

shamino1978 said:


> can u try this bios to see if the whine is still there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0037.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Hey shamino,

Sure, i'll try it in a few hours when i get home, cause i'm at work right now.
Thanks for the update !


----------



## Arni90

Here's CB R20 and R23 at 5.3 GHz core, 4.9 GHz ring
VCore was 1.58V in BIOS with LLC7

I placed my MO-RA3 in the window at night to get this. Water temps were around 10C
Power draw from the wall managed to go beyond 600W while running this



Spoiler


----------



## flyleaf_

shamino1978 said:


> can u try this bios to see if the whine is still there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0037.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thanks for the link but it sadly didn't change the noise for me.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

cstkl1 said:


> run cpu at stock first. i havent seen any indication of cpu oc needing to adjust ram related voltage up to 5.2 cache 46


CPU is at stock settings no OC. XMP refuses to run at any IO/SA voltages. Ive already gone higher than I wanted to. So Im not sure what the problem is, RAM is bad ? Memory controller on chip is bad? Slots on the motherboard are bad? So Ive gone down to 3733Mhz with XMP timings. Im really regretting returning the other Kit for 200$ when this 400$ kit wont run any better really.


----------



## Encode_GR

shamino1978 said:


> can u try this bios to see if the whine is still there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0037.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com





flyleaf_ said:


> Thanks for the link but it sadly didn't change the noise for me.


No change for me either unfortunately.
Even at stock settings without OC it's the same noise, and same problems with windows power modes.
Only All-Core OC with auto or static voltage *or* disabled C-State solves the issue and make power modes work properly.


----------



## Ikaros007

Thermal velocity boost dosent work with the 11700k...
When it reach 70 degrees drops down to the original boost clock at 4.6mhz..
I did apply an offset of -1 at 80 degrees But dident work.
Anyone know how to deal with that?


----------



## Talon2016

Ikaros007 said:


> Thermal velocity boost dosent work with the 11700k...
> When it reach 70 degrees drops down to the original boost clock at 4.6mhz..
> I did apply an offset of -1 at 80 degrees But dident work.
> Anyone know how to deal with that?


11700K doesn't feature TVB.


----------



## Arni90

Ikaros007 said:


> Thermal velocity boost dosent work with the 11700k...
> When it reach 70 degrees drops down to the original boost clock at 4.6mhz..
> I did apply an offset of -1 at 80 degrees But dident work.
> Anyone know how to deal with that?


I have the same experience with 11900K, but an 11700K shouldn't have TVB?


----------



## unclewebb

Ikaros007 said:


> When it reach 70 degrees drops down to the original boost clock at 4.6mhz.


Use HWiNO64 and watch the throttling flags when your CPU drops speed. The 11700K is not supposed to have TVB so it might be one of the power limits that is set too low that is causing your throttling problem.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

3733Mhz 16-19-19-38 T1, rounding error 2Hrs in.  Maybe Ill return the board ? Im lost completely now. The system is not stable in any config im throwing at it.
Going to clear CMOS and start over with stock settings and try one more time before I just return everything


----------



## encrypted11

If you’re trying to run IMC and Memory 1:1 3600-4133 is the hard limit depending on IMC strength. Go 1:2 mode if you’ve yet to try that.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

encrypted11 said:


> If you’re trying to run IMC and Memory 1:1 3600-4133 is the hard limit depending on IMC strength. Go 1:2 mode if you’ve yet to try that.


1:2 mode only. Havent tried 1:1 yet only with 2133Mhz.

After COMS reset still same, fails right a way with rounding error.

Been OCing and building PCs since the 90s and have never had so much trouble. This system is unstable at XMP profile for RAM? Ive just never had this issue ever... XMP should work no matter what. Again im at a loss as to what is causing it. Im of the opinion something is just broken. CPU Memory controller is crap, MoBo NB is defective in some way, or RAM slots on board are defective. Leaning towards getting another board.. Sorry for all the repeating of what Ive said already just frustrated at this point.


----------



## jomama22

Ex0duS5150 said:


> 1:2 mode only. Havent tried 1:1 yet only with 2133Mhz.
> 
> After COMS reset still same, fails right a way with rounding error.
> 
> Been OCing and building PCs since the 90s and have never had so much trouble. This system is unstable at XMP profile for RAM? Ive just never had this issue ever... XMP should work no matter what. Again im at a loss as to what is causing it. Im of the opinion something is just broken. CPU Memory controller is crap, MoBo NB is defective in some way, or RAM slots on board are defective. Leaning towards getting another board.. Sorry for all the repeating of what Ive said already just frustrated at this point.


Probably just a bad imc.

Btw, xmp makes no guarantees about working. It only guarantees that the ram will hit that with an imc that is willing to do it.

Your best bet is to try one stick at a time and see what happens. Manually set the xmp timings and leave all other timings at auto. If one stick works as intended and the other doesn't, you found your issue. If they both work by themselves but not together, definitely imc and possibly mobo, but mobo shouldn't really have an impact at such low frequencies.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can I have the latest bios for m12a?


----------



## Ex0duS5150

jomama22 said:


> Probably just a bad imc.
> 
> Btw, xmp makes no guarantees about working. It only guarantees that the ram will hit that with an imc that is willing to do it.
> 
> Your best bet is to try one stick at a time and see what happens. Manually set the xmp timings and leave all other timings at auto. If one stick works as intended and the other doesn't, you found your issue. If they both work by themselves but not together, definitely imc and possibly mobo, but mobo shouldn't really have an impact at such low frequencies.


I will try this.
If it is the Internal Memory Controller on the chip im kinda screwed because the chip functions. Cant return it.

Would iGPU being used have an effect? I am using the chips iGPU right now instead of a graphics card.

Update: shut down system to remove one stick of RAM, shut PSU off hit power button to discharge board, removed stick, turned PSU back on and board is now dead... 😕


----------



## Talon2016

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I will try this.
> If it is the Internal Memory Controller on the chip im kinda screwed because the chip functions. Cant return it.
> 
> Would iGPU being used have an effect? I am using the chips iGPU right now instead of a graphics card.
> 
> Update: shut down system to remove one stick of RAM, shut PSU off hit power button to discharge board, removed stick, turned PSU back on and board is now dead... 😕


I'm assuming you tried the other stick?


----------



## jomama22

Ex0duS5150 said:


> I will try this.
> If it is the Internal Memory Controller on the chip im kinda screwed because the chip functions. Cant return it.
> 
> Would iGPU being used have an effect? I am using the chips iGPU right now instead of a graphics card.
> 
> Update: shut down system to remove one stick of RAM, shut PSU off hit power button to discharge board, removed stick, turned PSU back on and board is now dead... 😕


Make sure the one stick you left in is the slot only 1 stick would go in. At the very least if its in the correct slot, a clear cmos would take you to bios.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

Talon2016 said:


> I'm assuming you tried the other stick?


Never got a chance after removing it board would not power up. removed the battery and power cables from board for 15mins and it is now starting again. I think im going to return it anyway.


----------



## Ex0duS5150

jomama22 said:


> Make sure the one stick you left in is the slot only 1 stick would go in. At the very least if its in the correct slot, a clear cmos would take you to bios.


Right, thanks for the reply Ive started RMA on board.


----------



## 646218

Ex0duS5150 said:


> Right, thanks for the reply Ive started RMA on board.


Do you know what your board prefers for tRC calculation? I'm not on z590 but my board prefers tRC= tcl +tras for all frequencies regardless of the ram kit used(tested several kits). XMP on my sticks ends up setting tRC to tcl+tras+1 which results in instability, but if I manually set primaries/frequency the same as the xmp profile and manually set tRC to tcl+tras instead of letting xmp set tRC to tcl+tras+1 then its stable. Basically what i'm saying is that your xmp could be setting tRC to a value that the board doesn't prefer resulting in memory instability. The board might be fine and a wrong tRC calculation could be the issue.


----------



## cstkl1

Amouranth'sFarts said:


> Do you know what your board prefers for tRC calculation? I'm not on z590 but my board prefers tRC= tcl +tras for all frequencies regardless of the ram kit used(tested several kits). XMP on my sticks ends up setting tRC to tcl+tras+1 which results in instability, but if I manually set primaries/frequency the same as the xmp profile and manually set tRC to tcl+tras instead of letting xmp set tRC to tcl+tras+1 then its stable. Basically what i'm saying is that your xmp could be setting tRC to a value that the board doesn't prefer resulting in memory instability. The board might be fine and a wrong tRC calculation could be the issue.


what talkin u trc on intel??


----------



## 646218

cstkl1 said:


> what talkin u trc on intel??


Ya z390/Intel.


----------



## cstkl1

Amouranth'sFarts said:


> Ya z390/Intel.


theres no trc on intel...


----------



## 646218

cstkl1 said:


> theres no trc on intel...


My bios has tRC. I am on z390 platform and a 9900K. I could video the bios to show you. Maybe your bios on the platform you are on doesn't allow you to set tRC?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Ex0duS5150 said:


> 1:2 mode only. Havent tried 1:1 yet only with 2133Mhz.
> 
> After COMS reset still same, fails right a way with rounding error.
> 
> Been OCing and building PCs since the 90s and have never had so much trouble. This system is unstable at XMP profile for RAM? Ive just never had this issue ever... XMP should work no matter what. Again im at a loss as to what is causing it. Im of the opinion something is just broken. CPU Memory controller is crap, MoBo NB is defective in some way, or RAM slots on board are defective. Leaning towards getting another board.. Sorry for all the repeating of what Ive said already just frustrated at this point.


In the most cases is anything with the motherboard, like bents socket pins.Also posible that a memory stick is damaged.

Give it back is the best.


----------



## cstkl1

Amouranth'sFarts said:


> My bios has tRC. I am on z390 platform and a 9900K. I could video the bios to show you. Maybe your bios on the platform you are on doesn't allow you to set tRC?


theres no trc in intel... u can show me jesus.. its aint there part of the mrc code or even on the data sheet


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> what talkin u trc on intel??


I know what he's talking about.
Gigabyte BIOS has TRC in its BIOS. At least on the Z390 Aorus Master/Xtreme. There was a bug at least on older bios versions where TRC wouldn't go higher than a certain amount. (I think it was 63, there was no menu selection for it going any higher). So for certain high latency RAM, if CL+TRAS was higher than 63, the motherboard wouldn't even train. I'm not sure if this was the exact formula or if there was another timing involved here, because it was so long ago. But it was something like that. 

It was just a Gigabyte thing.


----------



## 646218

cstkl1 said:


> theres no trc in intel... u can show me jesus.. its aint there part of the mrc code or even on the data sheet


It's on every DDR4 ram kit's data sheet and the timing is in my bios. It's even on ram kits designed specifically for Intel z390/z490/z590 platforms. tRC is indeed a thing on Intel so what is with the trolling? I know you are extremely experienced in ram overclocking so I can't help but think you are trolling.


----------



## cstkl1

Amouranth'sFarts said:


> It's on every DDR4 ram kit's data sheet and the timing is in my bios. It's even on ram kits designed specifically for Intel z390/z490/z590 platforms. tRC is indeed a thing on Intel so what is with the trolling? I know you are extremely experienced in ram overclocking so I can't help but think you are trolling.


5th


https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/desktop-5th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.pdf



6th


https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/desktop-6th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-2.pdf



7th


https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1Ol%2BvdSXDS.pdf



8th and 9th


https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/8th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-2.pdf


come show me this datasheet spec u are talking about on intel

and whats with suddenly trying to divert topic to trc on dram datasheet.. when i already said its not on INTEL

and its u who is trolling misinformation but refuse to accept it.

@Falkentyne
giga at it again eh


----------



## 646218

Did some further research, tRC is not available on all Intel UEFIs, only some. I guess that's one of the perks of using a gigabyte motherboard these days, tRC adjustment on Intel for better memory compatibility. Screenshot taken directly from github ddr4 overclocking guide, a guide written by one of the best. I guess that settles that. These gigabyte boards are insanely good, really happy I bought one.


----------



## truth hurts

For 1:2 4533 cl17 1t 
I use 1.3 sa and 1.3 memio , secondary timings tcwl 14 tight but cke won't go below 5 

For 1:1 3866 cl15 2t won't 1t
I use 1.35 SA and 1.35 memio , same secondary timing as above


----------



## Arni90

Amouranth'sFarts said:


> Did some further research, tRC is not available on all Intel UEFIs, only some. I guess that's one of the perks of using a gigabyte motherboard these days, tRC adjustment on Intel for better memory compatibility. Screenshot taken directly from github ddr4 overclocking guide, a guide written by one of the best. I guess that settles that. These gigabyte boards are insanely good, really happy I bought one.


If you consider it a perk that memory compatibility and training is awful, and that there's no RTL/IOL control resulting in awful RTLs past 3900 MHz, then sure. Another *perk* of the Z390 Aorus Master is how the VRM switching frequency setting is bugged, and 300 kHz results in better transient response than 400 or 500 kHz.

I can't fathom how Gigabyte keeps being recommended as a motherboard brand, their only claim to fame is ridiculously overkill VRMs.


----------



## cstkl1

Amouranth'sFarts said:


> Did some further research, tRC is not available on all Intel UEFIs, only some. I guess that's one of the perks of using a gigabyte motherboard these days, tRC adjustment on Intel for better memory compatibility. Screenshot taken directly from github ddr4 overclocking guide, a guide written by one of the best. I guess that settles that. These gigabyte boards are insanely good, really happy I bought one.
> View attachment 2485551


no dude. there is no trc in intel. the last time one had this on intel was way back with nvidia chipset.

quoting another reditor because you couldnt find any valid documentation from intel .. is like me quoting bob next door.

that one of the best. took excerpts from many ppl. same like bob next door quoting what he/she said with zero fact.
bob said the local butcher has the best meat in the world because of what he/she said and he never gone out of town in his entire life.


----------



## YaqY

Trc doesn't exist on intel, board vendors like giga who put it in bios changing it does nothing.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> what talkin u trc on intel??


cstkl1, i think you have been with nizzen the ones who knows more about rocket lake performance.

I'm only interested in gaming and i have read so many reviews and videos and there is no conclusion at all about some things.

To recap what i think is that 10900k has still the edge in gaming (latency beats ipc improvement) even with 11900k with the fastest memories. I read you mention about there is more stability with 11900k but I had no problems with my 10900k.

My questions go towards memory mainly because some reviews say gear 1 is the way to go for gaming and you mention that gear 2 with very high frequency is better.
Could you test both gear modes to see the differences in gaming?

At the end i think the only reason to upgrade to 11900k is the pcie 4 for a future GPU. But by that time Alder Lake might be here.

What are your thoughts about it? I have a MAXIMUS XIII Hero z590 and a 10900k sp92. Not easy to give away sp92 chip for rocket lake.


----------



## mount333

menko2 said:


> cstkl1, i think you have been with nizzen the ones who knows more about rocket lake performance.
> 
> I'm only interested in gaming and i have read so many reviews and videos and there is no conclusion at all about some things.
> 
> To recap what i think is that 10900k has still the edge in gaming (latency beats ipc improvement) even with 11900k with the fastest memories. I read you mention about there is more stability with 11900k but I had no problems with my 10900k.
> 
> My questions go towards memory mainly because some reviews say gear 1 is the way to go for gaming and you mention that gear 2 with very high frequency is better.
> Could you test both gear modes to see the differences in gaming?
> 
> At the end i think the only reason to upgrade to 11900k is the pcie 4 for a future GPU. But by that time Alder Lake might be here.
> 
> What are your thoughts about it? I have a MAXIMUS XIII Hero z590 and a 10900k sp92. Not easy to give away sp92 chip for rocket lake.


wait for alder lake. best case, 10% more fps in gaming (11900K vs 10900K).


----------



## cstkl1

ucode 24 seems lower latency
ucode 3c better copy


menko2 said:


> cstkl1, i think you have been with nizzen the ones who knows more about rocket lake performance.
> 
> I'm only interested in gaming and i have read so many reviews and videos and there is no conclusion at all about some things.
> 
> To recap what i think is that 10900k has still the edge in gaming (latency beats ipc improvement) even with 11900k with the fastest memories. I read you mention about there is more stability with 11900k but I had no problems with my 10900k.
> 
> My questions go towards memory mainly because some reviews say gear 1 is the way to go for gaming and you mention that gear 2 with very high frequency is better.
> Could you test both gear modes to see the differences in gaming?
> 
> At the end i think the only reason to upgrade to 11900k is the pcie 4 for a future GPU. But by that time Alder Lake might be here.
> 
> What are your thoughts about it? I have a MAXIMUS XIII Hero z590 and a 10900k sp92. Not easy to give away sp92 chip for rocket lake.


almost like repeating every few pages
1. reviewers are wrong about gearing cause they bodoh. then are brainwashed by zen. instead they should question amd agesa which has been lieing to consumers than gear 2 has bad write/copy etc.. (amd just lazy dude)
2. stability stability stability alot of you dont game or you think you do. because its 2021 and some ppl think paririty error is a fairy tale @Falkentyne and myself and few others made up. thats what 11900k offers. so if you are not really into gaming ..( 50-100hrs per 2 week) ..10900k is fine.
3. theres some ppl i have no idea why they are in this thread. they just here to defend their purchase. SOTR seems to be their only game they play. Try vermintide 2 if you are good enough. 11900k> 10900k

Flight simulator, cyberpunk, F1 2020, vermintide 2, nfs heat.. 11900k stock sits at the top.


----------



## Falkentyne

I just had someone Private message me on how to get rid of parity errors on his 10850K on Warzone at Auto voltages and LLC and x43 ring with x50 manually set core.
And you guys still think RKL is a joke? Yes it has issues but at least it doesn't have random crashes when you think you should be stable (unless you yeeted your RAM).

3 weeks in and I still have yet to see a single WHEA error appear on hwinfo64. The only errors i have in event viewer were from me trying to load windows after I yeeted my RAM to 4533 unstable.


----------



## Intrud3r

You guyz mean these parity errors ? Got these running 5.3 HT=off with too little vcore. Was running 4.3 cache and xmp memory.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Falkentyne said:


> I just had someone Private message me on how to get rid of parity errors on his 10850K on Warzone at Auto voltages and LLC and x43 ring with x50 manually set core.
> And you guys still think RKL is a joke? Yes it has issues but at least it doesn't have random crashes when you think you should be stable (unless you yeeted your RAM).
> 
> 3 weeks in and I still have yet to see a single WHEA error appear on hwinfo64. The only errors i have in event viewer were from me trying to load windows after I yeeted my RAM to 4533 unstable.


i don't remember people complaining about this, did you ever criticize these errors during the run of the 10900k? this isn't meant to put you on the spot i just don't recall seeing any complaints in the 10900k thread (but i was not looking for them to be fair)

i dont think warzone is a good game to use as an example, its been a buggy mess for 1+ years now and the devs have openly admitted the game play glitches are beyond them i dare say the hardware issues are further beyond them too. black ops br was a pos for stability


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> almost like repeating every few pages
> 1. reviewers are wrong about gearing cause they bodoh. then are brainwashed by zen. instead they should question amd agesa which has been lieing to consumers than gear 2 has bad write/copy etc.. (amd just lazy dude)


I managed to reach 4400 MHz on Gear 2 with DR B-die 5 hour Karhu stable, and it's come out slightly worse than 3733 Gear 1 with the same sticks in all gaming benchmarks I've tried. While I have no doubt that Gear 2 can yield better gaming results, there seems to be a "hole" where you're better off staying in Gear 1.

The games I've tried as of yet: Horizon Zero Dawn, Far Cry 5, SotTR, F1 2020, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, and Civilization VI


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> ucode 24 seems lower latency
> ucode 3c better copy
> 
> almost like repeating every few pages
> 1. reviewers are wrong about gearing cause they bodoh. then are brainwashed by zen. instead they should question amd agesa which has been lieing to consumers than gear 2 has bad write/copy etc.. (amd just lazy dude)
> 2. stability stability stability alot of you dont game or you think you do. because its 2021 and some ppl think paririty error is a fairy tale @Falkentyne and myself and few others made up. thats what 11900k offers. so if you are not really into gaming ..( 50-100hrs a week) ..10900k is fine.
> 3. theres some ppl i have no idea why they are in this thread. they just here to defend their purchase. SOTR seems to be their only game they play. Try vermintide 2 if you are good enough. 11900k> 10900k
> 
> Flight simulator, cyberpunk, F1 2020, vermintide 2, nfs heat.. 11900k stock sits at the top.


100 hours per week gaming = 14.3 hours per day... that's not "into gaming", that's serious mental illness/lack of job/school.


----------



## Ikaros007

Any m2 ssd benchmark?
5300read 4000 write with Samsung 980 512gb 
11700k.


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> ucode 24 seems lower latency
> ucode 3c better copy
> 
> almost like repeating every few pages
> 1. reviewers are wrong about gearing cause they bodoh. then are brainwashed by zen. instead they should question amd agesa which has been lieing to consumers than gear 2 has bad write/copy etc.. (amd just lazy dude)
> 2. stability stability stability alot of you dont game or you think you do. because its 2021 and some ppl think paririty error is a fairy tale @Falkentyne and myself and few others made up. thats what 11900k offers. so if you are not really into gaming ..( 50-100hrs a week) ..10900k is fine.
> 3. theres some ppl i have no idea why they are in this thread. they just here to defend their purchase. SOTR seems to be their only game they play. Try vermintide 2 if you are good enough. 11900k> 10900k
> 
> Flight simulator, cyberpunk, F1 2020, vermintide 2, nfs heat.. 11900k stock sits at the top.


He didn't even bring up amd...was merely asking if jumping from 10900k to 11900k makes sense if you plan to get alder lake anyway...which it really just doesn't. For ever game you want to say the 11900k is better in, there are 2 the 10900k is better in. Just the reality of the situation.

You rage about people "defending" their purchase when it really seems like you're just projecting yourself onto them. Quite hilarious honestly.

Don't let your blue blood show so much.



Falkentyne said:


> I just had someone Private message me on how to get rid of parity errors on his 10850K on Warzone at Auto voltages and LLC and x43 ring with x50 manually set core.
> And you guys still think RKL is a joke? Yes it has issues but at least it doesn't have random crashes when you think you should be stable (unless you yeeted your RAM).
> 
> 3 weeks in and I still have yet to see a single WHEA error appear on hwinfo64. The only errors i have in event viewer were from me trying to load windows after I yeeted my RAM to 4533 unstable.


I mean, no one thinks rkl is a joke, just that taking a step back and reviewing the options available to you, the 11900k is very difficult to recommend for it's price. No more, no less. The 11700k falls into this same situation, all because the 10900k exists and could be found for cheap (but not anymore, because of how the 11900k and 11700k performes).

You hammer on about the errors the 10900k deals with but again, mountain out of a mole hill. Clearly not everyone has that issue, it's the vast minority that do. There are clearly plenty of people that either solve by actually stabilizing their oc (like above). If it was such a massive issue, it would be much more in the spotlight, but that's just not the reality of the situation.

If you're happy with your 11900k, w.e., you need not care what others options are of the chip.


----------



## Bilco

CallMeODZ said:


> i don't remember people complaining about this, did you ever criticize these errors during the run of the 10900k? this isn't meant to put you on the spot i just don't recall seeing any complaints in the 10900k thread (but i was not looking for them to be fair)
> 
> i dont think warzone is a good game to use as an example, its been a buggy mess for 1+ years now and the devs have openly admitted the game play glitches are beyond them i dare say the hardware issues are further beyond them too. black ops br was a pos for stability


I doubt this is something you would be aware of in the first weeks of a products life. Also, as stated in his small 11900k introductory novel, he mentioned it has only grown worse with more modern titles. I think one could easily infer this wasn't known and didn't come to light as a bug until sometime after the 10-nine hundoos launch.



Arni90 said:


> I managed to reach 4400 MHz on Gear 2 with DR B-die 5 hour Karhu stable, and it's come out slightly worse than 3733 Gear 1 with the same sticks in all gaming benchmarks I've tried.


What were your SA/IO voltages for those G1 and G2 clocks?

I am able to do fairly tight bdie timings at 3700mhz G1 with 1.3sa/io...

G2 I couldn't get 4266 on my DR bdie even with 1.5sa/io which I wouldn't be comfortable with even if it was stable.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Just chipping in before I start reading. 11900K on Asus XIII Hero Z590 board. Using all automatic clock settings including thermal velocity boost and all the other stuff, and only changing TVB to +1 bin, it hits 5.4GHz. Memory appears to be stable at 4000MHz 14-14-29 T1 after a few hours of gaming no issues yet. Had a bit of instability from the memory earlier but upping voltage seems to have resolved it. CPU temps under full load (non-AVX) appear to be around 60-70C. AVX does hit 80C and a few degrees higher with intelburntest.

Going to be reading to see if people are commonly able to get +2 bin boost for 5.5GHz/5.3GHz with TVB to know if I should crack open another 11900k to try out since I apparently bought 6 of them.  My current CPU has an SP score of 85.


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> 100 hours per week gaming = 14.3 hours per day... that's not "into gaming", that's serious mental illness/lack of job/school.


semantics based on assumption reflected on what you assume is norm.

i assure you these ppl are earning much higher or even retired at age of 30 and some doesnt have to work for life. each to his own.
and there are some who are at the other end of that spectrum.

anyway parity issue is as real as the existence of ppl who are beyond your social circle.

this thread seems to be more about ppl who has zero interest in this cpu. they come here to defend their purchases.

edit i got the numbers wrong.. its based off my steam survey of few ppl.
its per 2 weeks.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> I doubt this is something you would be aware of in the first weeks of a products life. Also, as stated in his small 11900k introductory novel, he mentioned it has only grown worse with more modern titles. I think one could easily infer this wasn't known and didn't come to light as a bug until sometime after the 10-nine hundoos launch.
> 
> 
> 
> What were your SA/IO voltages for those G1 and G2 clocks?
> 
> I am able to do fairly tight bdie timings at 3700mhz G1 with 1.3sa/io...
> 
> G2 I couldn't get 4266 on my DR bdie even with 1.5sa/io which I wouldn't be comfortable with even if it was stable.


mobo? 

1.05/1.2 was enough for me. 

i think alot of ppl have been getting away with twcl being -1/-2 from tcl in cml etc. 

try diff twcl pairing.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Nizzen said:


> Tombraider on my Stock! 5900x and 3600c14 tweaked memory. F-M-L, 11900k is bad compared to Ryzen 3 in Tombraider


I've never understood people benchmarking at resolutions and frame rates that they're never going to play at. If the 11900k performs worse at standard gaming resolution/settings, that's when I care. But if 1440p/4k gaming on it happens to be faster....I'm not going to be upset that it gets beat out by another CPU at 720p.



aznguyen316 said:


> Lurker calling out OCN on gear 2 mode. 23min mark or so


I'm surprised this guy is quoted as much as he is here on OCN. He is really clueless about most of what he talks about, and in general he's very cringey on the level of the moore's law is dead guy. They exist. Some people watch them. Sometimes they're right. But they should never be relied on as a source of information because even when they're right about something, they've literally been told it by someone else. They don't have a proper understanding of the content they comment on.





truth hurts said:


> Update to 2101 , set 1.4v LLC7 5.3ghz will r23 all day on sp85 so should be no problem on yours
> View attachment 2485373





Falkentyne said:


> 1.385v LLC4 at 5 ghz is easy. My SP76 can pass that in Realbench 2.56 and Cinebench R20. You should try 1.350v LLC4 for your SP 97 chip for 5 ghz. That should be a better test to make sure your V/F curve isn't glitched.
> 
> Can you try R20 please at 1.50v LLC6 (not 4) at 5.2 ghz? This should pass for you (I get BSOD).


Hey Falk. I was reading up on SP a while back and I remember they said that it's not an entirely accurate metric. It's a good indicator, but you could still have an SP60 chip that outclocks an SP100. So while you'd be right 4 out of 5 times by picking the chip with the higher SP, there is still a 1 in 5 possibility that the high SP chip you have clocks very poorly or the low SP chip you have is an amazing overclocker. It had something to do with the inability of Asus to be able to determine the leakage present in each individual chip. Good bit of into to keep in the back of your mind when trying to compare CPUs.


----------



## Falkentyne

CallMeODZ said:


> i don't remember people complaining about this, did you ever criticize these errors during the run of the 10900k? this isn't meant to put you on the spot i just don't recall seeing any complaints in the 10900k thread (but i was not looking for them to be fair)
> 
> i dont think warzone is a good game to use as an example, its been a buggy mess for 1+ years now and the devs have openly admitted the game play glitches are beyond them i dare say the hardware issues are further beyond them too. black ops br was a pos for stability


I posted a direct link in my 11900k / Maximus 13 review posts to direct discussions about Minecraft and Parity Errors and Java cache garbage collection directly in the review, as well as the gigantic Apex Legends crash issue that had to be resolved by Respawn's programmer. And that Apex issue happened in the 9900K days.


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> He didn't even bring up amd...was merely asking if jumping from 10900k to 11900k makes sense if you plan to get alder lake anyway...which it really just doesn't. For ever game you want to say the 11900k is better in, there are 2 the 10900k is better in. Just the reality of the situation.
> 
> You rage about people "defending" their purchase when it really seems like you're just projecting yourself onto them. Quite hilarious honestly.
> 
> Don't let your blue blood show so much.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, no one thinks rkl is a joke, just that taking a step back and reviewing the options available to you, the 11900k is very difficult to recommend for it's price. No more, no less. The 11700k falls into this same situation, all because the 10900k exists and could be found for cheap (but not anymore, because of how the 11900k and 11700k performes).
> 
> You hammer on about the errors the 10900k deals with but again, mountain out of a mole hill. Clearly not everyone has that issue, it's the vast minority that do. There are clearly plenty of people that either solve by actually stabilizing their oc (like above). If it was such a massive issue, it would be much more in the spotlight, but that's just not the reality of the situation.
> 
> If you're happy with your 11900k, w.e., you need not care what others options are of the chip.


I'm sorry but you know it gets a bit annoying when someone private messages me asking how to fix parity errors on their 10900k.
Not to be rude but I don't think you're in my position here. If it wasn't an issue, I wouldn't get asked questions like this, would I?









Apex Legends May Performance Update 1.1.3


Check out all the tweaks and fixes in the Apex Legends May update.




www.ea.com





Whenever a company has to re-code a game to bypass a crash bug on Intel skylake processors, that's a problem.
And yes it affected me too. And this was on a 9900k. You have no idea how much my game randomly crashed because of the parity error.

I'm not trying to be rude to you but look at this old thread.









Apex Legends Crash no error - PC (apex_crash.txt)


So I just received a new crash from apex legends since reinstalling today, thank God that it had a apex_crash.txt Now can someone help me understand this poorly optimized crash fest of a game? Cheers :) crash: { R5Apex: 00000000002F2E2A EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION(write): 000000000000064F }...




answers.ea.com





Look at that guy's crash. PARITY ERROR.

Yes, this _IS_ a big issue.


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> I'm sorry but you know it gets a bit annoying when someone private messages me asking how to fix parity errors on their 10900k.
> Not to be rude but I don't think you're in my position here. If it wasn't an issue, I wouldn't get asked questions like this, would I?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex Legends May Performance Update 1.1.3
> 
> 
> Check out all the tweaks and fixes in the Apex Legends May update.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ea.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever a company has to re-code a game to bypass a crash bug on Intel skylake processors, that's a problem.
> And yes it affected me too. And this was on a 9900k. You have no idea how much my game randomly crashed because of the parity error.
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude to you but look at this old thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex Legends Crash no error - PC (apex_crash.txt)
> 
> 
> So I just received a new crash from apex legends since reinstalling today, thank God that it had a apex_crash.txt Now can someone help me understand this poorly optimized crash fest of a game? Cheers :) crash: { R5Apex: 00000000002F2E2A EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION(write): 000000000000064F }...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> answers.ea.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at that guy's crash. PARITY ERROR.
> 
> Yes, this _IS_ a big issue.


You show the same example over and over. Can you please show another program or game this is happening to and one that can't/hasn't been fixed at a code level.

Yes, the issue exists, but again, can be avoided through changes in code. Intel has already sent out and provided guidance to avoid this issue. The example you always provide is the only one that seemed to affect the majority of users.

Again, yes, what you describe is an issue, but it's solvable through coding changes. 

The only other thing I can find myself is in cod cold war and POSSIBLY metro, but there are so few examples of it that it just again leaves me to believe it is a vast minority issue. Even if inherent to the architecture of cml, it clearly doesn't deer it's head very often.

I would expect people who overclock to bring out more errors even if their system is 1000% stable. If there is a strain/flaw in a cpu architecture, oc'ing it will only exasperate the issue.


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> You show the same example over and over. Can you please show another program or game this is happening to and one that can't/hasn't been fixed at a code level.


I don't play a lot of various games. I tend to only play 2 or 3 at once. 
I show this because it affected me directly. The point still stands---any type of code should NEVER crash a perfectly working CPU running at stock speeds. If a stock CPU that is not overheating or overvolted crashes--that's a problem (and this was mentioned in that thread).

It doesn't matter what the cause was. If it's related to garbage collection from thread hammering, oh well. The bottom line is Skylake needed to die. 
Just rest tight. In six months, no one will care about rocket lake anymore, when DDR5 and ADL drops.
And that's when the real wars will begin.


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> I don't play a lot of various games. I tend to only play 2 or 3 at once.
> I show this because it affected me directly. The point still stands---any type of code should NEVER crash a perfectly working CPU running at stock speeds. If a stock CPU that is not overheating or overvolted crashes--that's a problem (and this was mentioned in that thread).
> 
> It doesn't matter what the cause was. If it's related to garbage collection from thread hammering, oh well. The bottom line is Skylake needed to die.
> Just rest tight. In six months, no one will care about rocket lake anymore, when DDR5 and ADL drops.
> And that's when the real wars will begin.


This isn't even an argument about anything beyond intel vs intel. There is no war I care about. It's the simple matter of $620 11900k vs sub $500 10900k.

Like I said to you previously, there is 0 reason to jump to rkl with alder lake coming soon enough, especially if you are on the cml platform. That goes for even people who only want to upgrade once every 5 years, there is no reason at all to upgrade.

Edit: here is the intel errata that deals with the apex issue btw.

"https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw0Vs_tLDIMCbidUvIKCH4BU&cshid=1617846099906"


This is an example of how these type of errata are dealt with when developing and compiling code:








JCC Erratum Mitigation in MSVC


The content of this blog was provided by Gautham Beeraka from Intel Corporation. Intel recently announced Jump Conditional Code (JCC) Erratum which can occur in some of its processors. The MSVC team has been working with Intel to provide a software fix in the compiler to mitigate the performance...




devblogs.microsoft.com





So if the developers have updated compilers and perform appropriate testing, the issues can be mitigated just fine.

Also, it should be noted that erratas like this exist for every cpu out there. It's just part of the process unfortunately.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

HyperMatrix said:


> Just chipping in before I start reading. 11900K on Asus XIII Hero Z590 board. Using all automatic clock settings including thermal velocity boost and all the other stuff, and only changing TVB to +1 bin, it hits 5.4GHz. Memory appears to be stable at 4000MHz 14-14-29 T1 after a few hours of gaming no issues yet. Had a bit of instability from the memory earlier but upping voltage seems to have resolved it. CPU temps under full load (non-AVX) appear to be around 60-70C. AVX does hit 80C and a few degrees higher with intelburntest.
> 
> Going to be reading to see if people are commonly able to get +2 bin boost for 5.5GHz/5.3GHz with TVB to know if I should crack open another 11900k to try out since I apparently bought 6 of them.  My current CPU has an SP score of either 84 or 86.
> 
> View attachment 2485645
> 
> View attachment 2485646


The current best is 102 out of 360+ chips so you may keep trying 😁


----------



## MoW

cstkl1 said:


> semantics based on assumption reflected on what you assume is norm.
> 
> i assure you these ppl are earning much higher or even retired at age of 30 and some doesnt have to work for life. each to his own.
> and there are some who are at the other end of that spectrum.
> 
> anyway parity issue is as real as the existence of ppl who are beyond your social circle.
> 
> this thread seems to be more about ppl who has zero interest in this cpu. they come here to defend their purchases.
> 
> edit i got the numbers wrong.. its based off my steam survey of few ppl.
> its per 2 weeks.


After all those brainwashing negative reviews by sites; it's little wonder ppl will accept RKL is the step forward.
Looks like the world is only preoccupied with the Highest/Most framerates or that sort of thing. If the product churns out top of the charts FPS ; it's gold and earn the recommendations.
Hardly they Ever discuss the real user experience or bugs or annoyances the product/platform might bring.
Eg. 5950x BSODs . No one care to bother abt it. They assume it's a small minority of ppl have them. I have experienced it , and I say It literally Destroys the overall user experience of zen 3 no matter how chart topping the performance is.




Falkentyne said:


> I posted a direct link in my 11900k / Maximus 13 review posts to direct discussions about Minecraft and Parity Errors and Java cache garbage collection directly in the review, as well as the gigantic Apex Legends crash issue that had to be resolved by Respawn's programmer. And that Apex issue happened in the 9900K days.


Read that. It's informative. I tend to agree that RKL is all abt addressing stability rather than pure performance.


----------



## HyperMatrix

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The current best is 102 out of 360+ chips so you may keep trying 😁
> 
> View attachment 2485682


Any idea what clocks should be expected from that 102 SP chip?


----------



## encrypted11

I was kind of surprised how a 15W TDP TGL-U's Memory Copy numbers on LPDDR4x turned out on on Google Stressapptest. Just 7000MB/s under a moderately tuned 4533 C19 Dual Rank Dual Channel 11900K at 54.7K.

There's a serious lack of data point for Memory Copy rates of Zen 2 and Zen 3 in the 24/7 Memory Stability thread so I wonder how these compare.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

HyperMatrix said:


> Any idea what clocks should be expected from that 102 SP chip?


No...It was directly sent to asus HQ.


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> I was kind of surprised how a 15W TDP TGL-U's Memory Copy numbers on LPDDR4x turned out on on Google Stressapptest. Just 7000MB/s under a moderately tuned 4533 C19 Dual Rank Dual Channel 11900K at 54.7K.
> 
> There's a serious lack of data point for Memory Copy rates of Zen 2 and Zen 3 in the 24/7 Memory Stability thread so I wonder how these compare.
> 
> View attachment 2485683


laptop might have sagv enabled bro.


----------



## encrypted11

Yes it does have dvfs on the LPDDR4x and SA.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Falkentyne said:


> I posted a direct link in my 11900k / Maximus 13 review posts to direct discussions about Minecraft and Parity Errors and Java cache garbage collection directly in the review, as well as the gigantic Apex Legends crash issue that had to be resolved by Respawn's programmer. And that Apex issue happened in the 9900K days.


ah ok, ill have to have a look-see 
would be interesting to see if the errors still occur on cold war as its a dif engine to mw2020, i think the new warzone map is on the new engine also
i know zombies was kinda glitchy with some crashes but that's always been the runt in the lineup (you've probably answered this in your post mentioned above, ill track it down now)


----------



## HyperMatrix

So for anyone unfamiliar with it, TVB can be set up this way right now:

Up to 3 core load: 5400MHz
4-5 core load: 5300MHz
6-8 core load: 5200MHz

All of this while temps are staying in the low to mid 60s under full load after a half hour. Can't complain too much about that. Because of that performance, I was hopeful that maybe I could set a 5300MHz or 5400MHz all core turbo. Unfortunately that was short lived. Even trying to get 5300MHz to work looked impossible. I had to set manual core voltage to 1.6V at LL4 to be able to complete a run of intelburntest. But even then after a minute of running cinebench it'd freeze up on me. Before it froze up, the multi-core performance score increase over the auto-boosting mode was just under 2%. But at the same time the single core was also down about 1.1%. And temps were also far higher.

At this point...I really have to commend Intel and Asus for doing an amazing job with their multiple boost systems and profiles. It gave such a great result that I didn't even care to look up proper guides on how to OC this chip any further. Using the same automatic boost algorithm from the same motherboard on my 10900k, I was hitting 90-100C under full load and throttling down to 4900MHz. But on this chip it can maintain 5200MHz while staying under 70C under the same cooling setup. I'm sure some of it is due to the new thinner gold plated IHS and larger die surface area because the CPU itself is still hitting up to 290W under load, but it's also doing a great job of staying cool.

I'm happier with this CPU than I thought I would be. And I still haven't received my PCIe 4.0 riser and NVMe drive to gain the full advantage but at least I have something to look forward to next week.


----------



## roooo

HyperMatrix said:


> So for anyone unfamiliar with it, TVB can be set up this way right now:
> 
> Up to 3 core load: 5400MHz
> 4-5 core load: 5300MHz
> 6-8 core load: 5200MHz


Thanks for the numbers, that sounds nice. What's your SP and what VCore etc. did you use?


----------



## roooo

Ikaros007 said:


> Any m2 ssd benchmark?
> 5300read 4000 write with Samsung 980 512gb
> 11700k.


These numbers are pretty meaningless without further info ;-)
Please post CDM screenshot.


----------



## HyperMatrix

roooo said:


> Thanks for the numbers, that sounds nice. What's your SP and what VCore etc. did you use?


It's SP 85. I'm using automatic settings for the most part, including for voltage. While running Cinebench R23.2 multi-core, CPU-Z is showing core voltage going anywhere from 1.488V and 1.557V. This would be while it's at 5200MHz since it's an all core bench. During the single core test, it's pulling a beautiful 1.646v for 5400MHz and temp average of 47-53C for the core in use.


----------



## roooo

HyperMatrix said:


> While running Cinebench R23.2 multi-core, CPU-Z is showing core voltage going anywhere from 1.488V and 1.557V. This would be while it's at 5200MHz since it's an all core bench. During the single core test, it's pulling a beautiful 1.646v for 5400MHz and temp average of 47-53C for the core in use.


1.646V - seriously?! I think this is way to high for anything except a quick benchmarking run, and even then. That's voltages the LN2 guys are dealing with. I wouldn't even throw any stability test at it with vcore >1.5V. Did you try lowering voltages yet? Any suggestions regarding safe maximum 24/7 vcore @cstkl1?


----------



## HyperMatrix

roooo said:


> 1.646V - seriously?! I think this is way to high for anything except a quick benchmarking run, and even then. I wouldn't even throw any stability test at it with voltages >1.5V. Did you try lowering voltages yet? Any suggestions regarding safe maximum 24/7 vcore @cstkl1?


Definitely seems high. But it’s all auto and it’s only 1.646 during light usage (3 or less cores). And temps are very low (50C under load per active core). So no worries there. And not really worried about electron migration since I won’t be keeping the chip for that long.

If the 1.646V scares you, then I wonder what you think about when I loaded in an offset voltage and booted into windows to see core voltage was at 1.95V. Temps hit 90-100C when I ran a quick bench on that. 

As for what’s safe, I’d say anything under 1.6V is probably safe if temps are in check. 1.55V if you want to be conservative. Remember each chip generation has different safe voltage limits. And based on the estimated voltage requirements shown in ASUS bios it looks like this chip needs more voltage than we’re used to. But obviously don’t do anything you’re not comfortable with.


----------



## roooo

HyperMatrix said:


> Definitely seems high. But it’s all auto ....


Auto != always appropriate ;-)

I'm sincerely wishing you that you won't be the first to report a fried RKL here... 

What cooler are you using, btw?


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> 1.646V - seriously?! I think this is way to high for anything except a quick benchmarking run, and even then. That's voltages the LN2 guys are dealing with. I wouldn't even throw any stability test at it with vcore >1.5V. Did you try lowering voltages yet? Any suggestions regarding safe maximum 24/7 vcore @cstkl1?


any cpu stuff ask @Falkentyne 
ram djr seems fine 1.7-1.8v


----------



## HyperMatrix

roooo said:


> Auto != always appropriate ;-)
> 
> I'm sincerely wishing you that you won't be the first to report a fried RKL here...
> 
> What cooler are you using, btw?


I have 5 more 11900Ks at the moment if anything happens to this one so I’m not too worried. Haha. And I’m running a custom loop. Aqua computer Kryos next block. 2x 360mm rads and 1x 480mm hardware labs GTR rads with 3000 RPM fans and dual d5 pump just for my CPU.

Honestly like I said temperature is the key. The voltage isn’t high enough to cause any catastrophic failure. The only thing that could happen is faster degradation due to electron migration but that takes time and I hopefully won’t have to be on 14nm anymore in the years it would take for that to happen.


----------



## AeonMW2

About that parity error - I've only seen a single one in almost a year since i bought 10900K in may 2020.
That was when I had not perfectly stable 5.1 and playing Apex.
After that I dropped frequency to 5.0 all core/4.5 cache and bumped vcore to 1.36 bios/high LLC (gigabyte) resulting in a minimum of 1.275 VRVOUT under cinebench R20 load.
Since not a single whea error in hundreds and hundreds of hours of Apex, Warzone, Battlefield 5
I have a custom filter in windows event viewer and hwinfo running all the time so can't miss any of them.


----------



## domdtxdissar

While its maybe not nice to write it straight up like that, but i think i mostly agree with *slayer6288*
The narrative coming from some people i find really over the top, and its almost like they work in the Intel PR department and their job is to spread fud about anything not rocketlake.. and they cant seem to stop talk about AMD when its gen10 vs gen11 that's being compared


----------



## menko2

domdtxdissar said:


> While its maybe not nice to write it straight up like that, but i think i mostly agree with *slayer6288*
> The narrative coming from some people i find really over the top, and its almost like they work in the Intel PR department and their job is to spread fud about anything not rocketlake


I'm keeping my 10900k so I'm not a fan of the rocket lake launch but at least they both help without insulting. 

At the end we all decide what to do and keep but insults are never welcome for people that at least try to help (even if they have a preference for RKL).


----------



## Spiriva

5950x was the worse garbage i ever had. It was so fking bad it was insane. Reboot, crash, blue screen. It even crashed in bios.

With 11900k everything been good, i sat it to 5300mhz all core, 1,380v, llc6, i sat the g.skill ddr4 3600mhz to 4266mhz, save bios and go. 
Everything works fine.

And yes, when Alder Lake comes out ill just get one of those.
I will however *NEVER* get another garbage AMD cpu.


----------



## MoW

Spiriva said:


> 5950x was the worse garbage i ever had. It was so fking bad it was insane. Reboot, crash, blue screen. It even crashed in bios.
> 
> With 11900k everything been good, i sat it to 5300mhz all core, 1,380v, llc6, i sat the g.skill ddr4 3600mhz to 4266mhz, save bios and go.
> Everything works fine.
> 
> And yes, when Alder Lake comes out ill just get one of those.
> I will however *NEVER* get another garbage AMD cpu.


I have this 5950x too previously. A nasty experience with Bsod. It's not that we are against Amd. Ppl will only understand if they are in our shoes and stop accusing us for bashing Amd. Buying a flagship product and later discovered it's not working the way it should be.


----------



## Arni90

Spiriva said:


> With 11900k everything been good, i sat it to 5300mhz all core, 1,380v, llc6, i sat the g.skill ddr4 3600mhz to 4266mhz, save bios and go.
> Everything works fine.


How is that even remotely stable? Can you pass a single run of Cinebench R20 at that voltage?


----------



## Spiriva

Arni90 said:


> How is that even remotely stable? Can you pass a single run of Cinebench R20 at that voltage?


And 3dmark too.


----------



## Arni90

Spiriva said:


> And 3dmark too.


Do you have a picture or link of that?


----------



## Talon2016

Spiriva said:


> And 3dmark too.


Nice chip! What SP if you have Asus?


----------



## morph.

What sort of temps are we looking at with an overclocked 11900k with gaming workloads and not benchmarks? e.g. Warzone/outriders?

Looks like I'll beable to pickup my 11900k today to replace my 10850k a bit pensive though.


----------



## HyperMatrix

morph. said:


> What sort of temps are we looking at with an overclocked 11900k with gaming workloads and not benchmarks? e.g. Warzone/outriders?
> 
> Looks like I'll beable to pickup my 11900k today to replace my 10850k a bit pensive though.


For me personally...under the same cooling...it runs at least 30C cooler than my 10900kf. And this is when comparing them both with their standard auto-boosting settings. 10900kf would hit 90-100C under full load. This guy likes to stay in the 60-65C range with 5200MHz all core at around 1.55V. Other people are getting higher clocks with even less voltage. In general...expect better cooling compared to 10 series due to the larger die size, and also thinner IHS.


----------



## OOBIDUB

Thoughts on this chip's SP rating? Should I return it for another? (11900k)


----------



## HyperMatrix

OOBIDUB said:


> Thoughts on this chip's SP rating? Should I return it for another?
> View attachment 2485790


Lowest I've seen is 55. Highest we've _heard of_ but haven't seen is 102. 78 isn't terrible. I'd consider it middle class. I think there were a couple people who have seen or have chips in the 90s. Several have chips in the 80s. High 70s to Low 80s seems like a decent place to be. If you return it for another chip...you're more likely to get a worse SP than a better SP just as a matter of probability. If you're planning on binning a few, I'd recommend buying another one to see how it does. Sell the lower SP or lower performing chip (not always the same). Would suck to get rid of this and then get a chip with an SP in the 60s. Also I don't approve of returning a chip that's working fine just to hunt for a better SP. You want to bin and get a better chip? Then you should buy, test, and sell off the ones you choose not to keep.


----------



## Talon2016

OOBIDUB said:


> Thoughts on this chip's SP rating? Should I return it for another? (11900k)
> View attachment 2485790


Test the chip and see how it does. My 11900K is SP80 or 83 depending on the day/bios flash it seems lol. 

I just tested 53x all cores in CB23 with 1.45v LLC7 and it passed no issues. I run mine daily 5Ghz 1.31v LLC5 fully stable. Obviously I can push a lot higher but will keep it this way for awhile as I like low temps. I imagine that SP78 is going to perform just fine and I would not return it over that. If anything I would sell it. Returning due to bad bin is kinda a ****ty move/behavior. It only makes the chip expensive for everyone else, and goes against good faith return policies offered at various stores. Now if you truly got a **** chip, say SP55, then I would say F that and I would return it since that thing should have never been made a 11900K. Anything in the 70s and 80s seem to all be great chips. SP90 are amazing most likely and SP100 are unicorns. If you want a higher bin, do what everyone else does and buy a few and bin them and sell the worst chips at a slight loss. A lot of people don't care about overclocking and won't bother them to buy something so new second hand for a discount.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

OOBIDUB said:


> Thoughts on this chip's SP rating? Should I return it for another? (11900k)
> View attachment 2485790


VF is bad since 5.1GHz VF for good chips is supposed to be lower than 1.4V.

Besides, try to see if this IMC can run dual-channel SR 4000 1:1, or single-channel SR 4133 1:1.


----------



## cstkl1

MoW said:


> You have misunderstood both of them. It's just their style of expression. Could be harsh for some. But at least they are helpful.





menko2 said:


> I'm keeping my 10900k so I'm not a fan of the rocket lake launch but at least they both help without insulting.
> 
> At the end we all decide what to do and keep but insults are never welcome for people that at least try to help (even if they have a preference for RKL).


there is nothing to misunderstand

one idiot been trolling and is a amd idiot but think he is fair. he doesnt buy anything but defend his purchases.
idiot so dumb even cant read cpuz is gear 1.. 96 post of garbage
then you got another idiot who came into the thread.. saying.. OH u dont want to see my 1ccd etc..
then sudden memory loss as usual.

You got to understand these ppl are literally trolls. they act impartial and then when they are caught being a fool they start throwing words like shill etc.

What are they doing in this thread.. ?? discussing about rkl.. nope. look at their posting and you see what they truly are.
Amd nuts. we had so many already on this thread. now they are using the 10th gen flaw to hide their incompetence and saying another narattive so ppl will forget their older postings.

ignore them dude ..there's nothing they will ever post is helpful to anybody but themselves.

btw u can search my whole history on my topic about amd
its only one comment that i drive that seems to be something these ppl all ignore
the incompetence of agesa and hiding working spec of a cpu.. its a fact but these guys think we are talking SO MUCH about amd. if intel did this **** .. it will be a topic as well. just as paririty issue of skylake. so instead you should ask whats with this two dufus allegiance to amd till they have to be in all threads defending them.

both of us has a main rig
10900k+m13E+3090. we spent a lot of time on it. from start again its like repeat.. vs a tuned 10900k .. no comment.. except stability aka parity error.


----------



## MoW

cstkl1 said:


> there is nothing to misunderstand
> 
> one idiot been trolling and is a amd idiot but think he is fair. he doesnt buy anything but defend his purchases.
> idiot so dumb even cant read cpuz is gear 1.. 96 post of garbage
> then you got another idiot who came into the thread.. saying.. OH u dont want to see my 1ccd etc..
> then sudden memory loss as usual.
> 
> You got to understand these ppl are literally trolls. they act impartial and then when they are caught being a fool they start throwing words like shill etc.
> 
> What are they doing in this thread.. ?? discussing about rkl.. nope. look at their posting and you see what they truly are.
> Amd nuts. we had so many already on this thread. now they are using the 10th gen flaw to hide their incompetence and saying another narattive so ppl will forget their older postings.
> 
> ignore them dude ..there's nothing they will ever post is helpful to anybody but themselves.
> 
> btw u can search my whole history on my topic about amd
> its only one comment that i drive that seems to be something these ppl all ignore
> the incompetence of agesa and hiding working spec of a cpu.. its a fact but these guys think we are talking SO MUCH about amd. if intel did this **** .. it will be a topic as well. just as paririty issue of skylake. so instead you should ask whats with this two dufus allegiance to amd till they have to be in all threads defending them.
> 
> both of us has a main rig
> 10900k+m13E+3090. we spent a lot of time on it. from start again its like repeat.. vs a tuned 10900k .. no comment.. except stability aka parity error.


Yeah, sometimes these fiends have to be silenced. Just ordered 11900k/z590 xtreme from ebucket. want to see for myself those negative reviews have been talking abt.


----------



## Spiriva

Arni90 said:


> Do you have a picture or link of that?


----------



## cstkl1

Spiriva said:


>


nice. 

@MoW 
asus z590 extreme release for sale??

so far here in MY asus only bringing in hero apex is a no.extreme they are waiting godlike / giga extreme pricing. Asus MY always price the extreme higher than both even if the components are no where close. z490 was usd 1k..

z590 hero seems like way better built than z490 hero
@Gandyman had lot of trouble though and his issues was resolved when he bought a z490 extreme. bios??

atm rkl seems to have a huge negative impact when a approved rebar game doesnt work.

ucode 24 vs 3c i am facing stability issues on the later on ram.

a buddy of mine on giga z590 master vs giga b560 AX matx.
damn weird. the later can boot 4800c19 on djr DR. the master cant.

retail 11900k atm is crazy priced here. waiting for more stock. hoping to get a good one. hopefully then can do oc comparison vs 10900k.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Just delid the 11900k and install supercool direct die for 10900k and flash bios 2101 on m12a.
First problem, window has weird lag and does not detect nvidia card after install driver.
Second problem, flash bios 2004 beta and now it posts code 00. 
is the chip dead?


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> asus z590 extreme release for sale??
> 
> so far here in MY asus only bringing in hero apex is a no.extreme they are waiting godlike / giga extreme pricing. Asus MY always price the extreme higher than both even if the components are no where close. z490 was usd 1k..
> 
> z590 hero seems like way better built than z490 hero
> @Gandyman had lot of trouble though and his issues was resolved when he bought a z490 extreme. bios??
> 
> atm rkl seems to have a huge negative impact when a approved rebar game doesnt work.
> 
> ucode 24 vs 3c i am facing stability issues on the later on ram.
> 
> a buddy of mine on giga z590 master vs giga b560 AX matx.
> damn weird. the later can boot 4800c19 on djr DR. the master cant.
> 
> retail 11900k atm is crazy priced here. waiting for more stock. hoping to get a good one. hopefully then can do oc comparison vs 10900k.


I bought mine for 650€ in spain (773$). Way too expensive.

I haven't opened and I'll return it. Will wait for better price and also to mature the bios for the z590 hero.

Get rid of my 10900k SP 92 is not easy.


----------



## BURGER4life

Thanh Nguyen said:


> is the chip dead?


You ripped off several resistors and scratched the pcb severely.


----------



## cstkl1

@MoW
dam the 2nd covid shot given me fever until i never realized

lol MY. ebucket ya i saw that combo
nrw the one having the issue atm.

@stasio link









GIGABYTE Latest Beta BIOS - TweakTown Forums


Warning Some of beta BIOSes are still undergoing compatibility testing. GIGABYTE is sharing these BIOSes for testing purposes only and are not meant for general release. If you are not familiar with beta BIOS testing, then please only flash the recommended release BIOSes that are posted on the...




www.tweaktownforum.com


----------



## HyperMatrix

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Just delid the 11900k and install supercool direct die for 10900k and flash bios 2101 on m12a.
> First problem, window has weird lag and does not detect nvidia card after install driver.
> Second problem, flash bios 2004 beta and now it posts code 00.
> is the chip dead?
> View attachment 2485819


Unless you can re-solder all those resistors back on, and that’s assuming you didn’t fry it already by powering it on, and also assuming you didn’t also cut any traces in the PCB where you scratched it....then yes it’s dead.

Did you watch der8auer’s video on how to delid it?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I bought mine for 650€ in spain (773$). Way too expensive.
> 
> I haven't opened and I'll return it. Will wait for better price and also to mature the bios for the z590 hero.
> 
> Get rid of my 10900k SP 92 is not easy.


did u face the same problem as @Gandyman ??

his wasnt even boosting correctly
he had a 10900ka. was screwed up with strix 490. he change the cpu to K and problem solved. then went z590 hero. other problems. and now z490 extreme. all good.


----------



## encrypted11

Anyone knows a Gigabyte NA rep after Matthew H left for AMD?
I'm trying to find out when the Vision D ITX launches and I'm buying one.

While the memory overclocks on STRIX ITX are good, the STRIX line is still the rebranded successor of the Pro Gaming line on Z170 and there's always something to be desired about the hardware component choices with deep compromises/cost cutting somewhere unlike the Impacts whenever they're available.
-Parallel phases / Really cut down PWMs rebranded into ASP parts.
-Use of cheap 5K Taiwanese Apaq capacitors (rebranded MIL) over Japanese 5K or better caps (though a number of the Apaq spots were replaced with tantalums), not good when ITX board temperatures are hotter with a lot less copper for sinking heat

The Vision D has pretty much everything DESIRED (plus fully tantalum, no polymer caps) for ITX boards though I haven't touched Gigabyte BIOSes in maybe 5 years and it may not be that great of an experience.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> did u face the same problem as @Gandyman ??
> 
> his wasnt even boosting correctly
> he had a 10900ka. was screwed up with strix 490. he change the cpu to K and problem solved. then went z590 hero. other problems. and now z490 extreme. all good.


I'm using the original BIOS that came with the board. The very first one and it's working well with the 10900k.

I was really eager to get the 11900k but between the price and the good 10900k i have i rather wait a bit. I hope the price will lower because 650€ is quite a lot for 8 core.

I saw the 11900kf for 525€ one day was in a few hours went out of stock. In spain everything is hard to get and more expensive.

To prepare for a 11th gen I was thinking to go dual rank with four sticks because I have a F4-3600C15D-16GTZ and i saw the same kit for 125€.

I know daisy chain mobo will be better with a 2x16gb. But will the overlock be limited by much with four sticks?

My overclock now is this one with single rank:


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> Anyone knows a Gigabyte NA rep after Matthew H left for AMD?
> I'm trying to find out when the Vision D ITX launches and I'm buying one.
> 
> While the memory overclocks on STRIX ITX are good, the STRIX line is still the rebranded successor of the Pro Gaming line on Z170 and there's always something to be desired about the hardware component choices with deep compromises/cost cutting somewhere unlike the Impacts whenever they're available.
> -Parallel phases / Really cut down PWMs rebranded into ASP parts.
> -Use of cheap 5K Taiwanese Apaq capacitors (rebranded MIL) over Japanese 5K or better caps (though a number of the Apaq spots were replaced with tantalums), not good when ITX board temperatures are hotter with a lot less copper for sinking heat
> 
> The Vision D has pretty much everything DESIRED (plus fully tantalum, no polymer caps) for ITX boards though I haven't touched Gigabyte BIOSes in maybe 5 years and it may not be that great of an experience.


z490 master was good. z590 master built is good but bios.. they have alot of work still need to do. 






tachyon has v/f. so asus not exclusive on this anymore. but the implementation etc all question mark

for latency apex still the best. 
lower rtl + @shamino1978 tweaks


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I'm using the original BIOS that came with the board. The very first one and it's working well with the 10900k.
> 
> I was really eager to get the 11900k but between the price and the good 10900k i have i rather wait a bit. I hope the price will lower because 650€ is quite a lot for 8 core.
> 
> I saw the 11900kf for 525€ one day was in a few hours went out of stock. In spain everything is hard to get and more expensive.
> 
> To prepare for a 11th gen I was thinking to go dual rank with four sticks because I have a F4-3600C15D-16GTZ and i saw the same kit for 125€.
> 
> I know daisy chain mobo will be better with a 2x16gb. But will the overlock be limited by much with four sticks?
> 
> My overclock now is this one with single rank:
> View attachment 2485820


hmm atm to advise somebody to invest in ddr4.. 

if u see them cheap. go for it. if not.. waiting a sound idea.


----------



## cstkl1

https://youtube.com/c/SkatterBencher



watch his vids.its superb. the amount of work he has put in also ocovers diff aib bioses etc.


----------



## clackersx

we


Ikaros007 said:


> Any m2 ssd benchmark?
> 5300read 4000 write with Samsung 980 512gb
> 11700k.


11900K stock with ABT enabled, ram at 2133 auto. RAM and CPU speed should impact M2 speeds a little in some way in some scenarios.
Single 2TB 980 Pro (GEN4 X4 CPU lanes)









2X 2TB 980 Pro RAID0 (64K stripe intel RST 18.31.5.1038) (GEN3 X4 PCH lanes)









_EDIT_ forgot I had a result from Magician


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## roooo

Talon2016 said:


> I run mine daily 5Ghz 1.31v LLC5 fully stable.


Is that 5GHz fixed all-core or do you still have TVB enabled? If TVB, what multis do you use?


----------



## cstkl1

clackersx said:


> we
> 
> 1190K stock with TVB enabled, ram at 2133 auto. RAM and CPU speed should impact M2 speeds a little in some way in some scenarios.
> Single 2TB 980 Pro (GEN4 X4 CPU lanes)
> View attachment 2485822
> 
> 
> 2X 2TB 980 Pro RAID0 (64K stripe intel RST 18.31.5.1038) (GEN3 X4 PCH lanes)
> View attachment 2485823


been testing something atm
avx disabled with bios + cstate on/off

acV in particular has texture streaming that prefers cstate off. lesser dips


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Is that 5GHz fixed all-core or do you still have TVB enabled? If TVB, what multis do you use?


intel abandon tvb bro for 11900k

only atb (adaptive turbo boost)


----------



## MoW

cstkl1 said:


> @MoW
> dam the 2nd covid shot given me fever until i never realized
> 
> lol MY. ebucket ya i saw that combo
> nrw the one having the issue atm.
> 
> @stasio link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GIGABYTE Latest Beta BIOS - TweakTown Forums
> 
> 
> Warning Some of beta BIOSes are still undergoing compatibility testing. GIGABYTE is sharing these BIOSes for testing purposes only and are not meant for general release. If you are not familiar with beta BIOS testing, then please only flash the recommended release BIOSes that are posted on the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tweaktownforum.com


ha ha....i nvr quote z590 extreme. it's z590 xtreme (aorus). also to match back my 3090 xtreme.


----------



## roooo

clackersx said:


> we
> 
> 11900K stock with TVB enabled, ram at 2133 auto. RAM and CPU speed should impact M2 speeds a little in some way in some scenarios.
> Single 2TB 980 Pro (GEN4 X4 CPU lanes)
> View attachment 2485822
> 
> 
> 2X 2TB 980 Pro RAID0 (64K stripe intel RST 18.31.5.1038) (GEN3 X4 PCH lanes)
> View attachment 2485823
> 
> 
> _EDIT_ forgot I had a result from Magician
> View attachment 2485830


Those are not looking good. Can you add Crystal Disk Mark please? Anyone (else) seeing NVME performance regressions after switching to the Hero XIII? I recall some post about an Intel Optane on Hero XIII with 10900k which also gave sub-par results.


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> intel abandon tvb bro for 11900k
> 
> only atb (adaptive turbo boost)


Errm...huh?! Should I get you or myself a coffee quickly? ;-)
I did not mean all-core boost, I meant 2-core TVB.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Errm...huh?! Should I get you or myself a coffee quickly? ;-)
> I did not mean all-core boost, I meant 2-core TVB.


oh u meant that one its not tvb bro. its pll control + core usage

tvb is based on temps.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Those are not looking good. Can you add Crystal Disk Mark please? Anyone (else) seeing NVME performance regressions after switching to the Hero XIII? I recall some post about an Intel Optane on Hero XIII with 10900k which also gave sub-par results.


theres been reports that some games was worse with cstate off.


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> theres been reports that some games was worse with cstate off.


That's a good pointer but how does it relate to NVME performance affecting games (=fps)?


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> That's a good pointer but how does it relate to NVME performance affecting games (=fps)?


i think cpu/imc affected.. hence dmi/pcie lane affected. again some user reported. not sure yet. ppl still checking for flaws atm. so many ucode changes. so have to retest .


----------



## Falkentyne

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Just delid the 11900k and install supercool direct die for 10900k and flash bios 2101 on m12a.
> First problem, window has weird lag and does not detect nvidia card after install driver.
> Second problem, flash bios 2004 beta and now it posts code 00.
> is the chip dead?
> View attachment 2485819


Is this a troll post?


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> i think cpu/imc affected.. hence dmi/pcie lane affected. again some user reported. not sure yet. ppl still checking for flaws atm. so many ucode changes. so have to retest .


K...got that. Looking forward to receiving my 11900kf during the next days, will report on my findings. Severe NVME regressions would indeed be a reason to return CPU and mobo.


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> Is this a troll post?


My first thought, too 
It's probably a post-easter surprise - find them lil resistors...


----------



## HyperMatrix

roooo said:


> My first thought, too
> It's probably a post-easter surprise - find them lil resistors...


I hope it's a troll. Because there's no way he'd be able to solder those resistors back on. Even for me it's only a 40% chance. Those resistors are way too small and too close to each other. If you're not using a digital microscope and a micro soldering iron...good luck....heck it would probably be easier to apply sufficient solder to the pads, then glue the resistors in place with a glue stick and the bake it in the oven to make it stick. Haha. But even then he may have already fried it.


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> @MoW
> dam the 2nd covid shot given me fever until i never realized


Lucky you, that's a good indicator the 1st was pretty effective already. What vaccine if I may ask? Over here in Bureaucrameny it's very likely I'll get my hands on Alder Lake before getting the vaccination..........


----------



## encrypted11

cstkl1 said:


> https://youtube.com/c/SkatterBencher
> 
> 
> 
> watch his vids.its superb. the amount of work he has put in also ocovers diff aib bioses etc.


Well that's Pieter-Jan Plaisier (Massman) from HWBot. He's one of the former HWBot admins so it's expected that he knows is stuff


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> hmm atm to advise somebody to invest in ddr4..
> 
> if u see them cheap. go for it. if not.. waiting a sound idea.


The same F4-3600C15D-16GTZ kit i have is just 125€. It's cheap price comparing to the dual rank 2x16gb for around 400€.

I'm just not sure if 4 sticks dual rank will limit my overclock of my single rank and i end up with worst performance.

Do you have an idea if it will be better with dual rank with the overclock being a bit lower?


----------



## roooo

For all those who are interested in RKL Linux performance, Michael of Phoronix has done some pretty extensive benchmarking:
Intel Core i5 11600K + Core i9 11900K Linux Performance Across ~400 Benchmarks

He also had a look at the current gen performance penalty with mitigations for Spectre et al. enabled:
Spectre Mitigation Performance Impact For Intel's Rocket Lake


Enjoy!


----------



## morph.

Picked her up will need to slap it in later tonight gotta drain the loop.

Looks like the latest bios for M12F is still only v2004 beta released mid Jan... @shamino1978 anything in the works? Actually, just found this v2102 ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME (Z490) Discussion &amp... is that the latest?


----------



## fray_bentos

encrypted11 said:


> Well that's Pieter-Jan Plaisier (Massman) from HWBot. He's one of the former HWBot admins so it's expected that he knows is stuff


He knows his stuff, then applies an AVX offset of -5. The mind boggles.



morph. said:


> Picked her up will need to slap it in later tonight gotta drain the loop.


Just checking that you are talking about a CPU here, right?😆


----------



## morph.

fray_bentos said:


> He knows his stuff, then applies an AVX offset of -5. The mind boggles.
> 
> 
> Just checking that you are talking about a CPU here, right?😆


lol


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Lucky you, that's a good indicator the 1st was pretty effective already. What vaccine if I may ask? Over here in Bureaucrameny it's very likely I'll get my hands on Alder Lake before getting the vaccination..........


its the Pfizer one


fray_bentos said:


> He knows his stuff, then applies an AVX offset of -5. The mind boggles.
> 
> 
> Just checking that you are talking about a CPU here, right?😆


havent tested that part.. but yeah weird thing for rkl since bios can pema disable it..


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> its the Pfizer one
> 
> havent tested that part.. but yeah weird thing for rkl since bios can pema disable it..


Indeed, makes sense to have AVX512 disabled and zero AVX offset for "normal AVX" loads encountered in apps and games.


----------



## Arni90

Spiriva said:


>



I meant a picture of 3DMark Time Spy, or Cinebench R20 running at 1.38V and 5.3 GHz

Validating 5.3 GHz around 1.38V isn't difficult: Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5300 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
And I have no problems stating that this is not even remotely stable.


----------



## Electrosoft

cstkl1 said:


>


Watched this yesterday. 11th gen seems to have better overall lows and WoW responded best to G1 very tight timings, even up against tight 4600.

I've have my 11700k (since Monday), but Best Buy lost my motherboard somewhere between their warehouse and our local store (in BB speak, "Delayed" on the day of delivery two days ago). I definitely want to tune up to a flat 5ghz and take these B-die sticks for a whirl and see where my fps land in known trouble spots in Shadowlands.


----------



## cstkl1

Electrosoft said:


> Watched this yesterday. 11th gen seems to have better overall lows and WoW responded best to G1 very tight timings, even up against tight 4600.
> 
> I've have my 11700k (since Monday), but Best Buy lost my motherboard somewhere between their warehouse and our local store (in BB speak, "Delayed" on the day of delivery two days ago). I definitely want to tune up to a flat 5ghz and take these B-die sticks for a whirl and see where my fps land in known trouble spots in Shadowlands.


no sure his timings.. if he had posted some aidas.. could have seen his so call tight...

cause running 3333C14.. is no where close to my 4600C17...latency the 4600C17 already the same as 3333C14..... 43+ns


----------



## kalston

My 11900k has a score of 95+ according to my Asus z590 Rog Strix E. I have no clue how it is calculated, but is that really something special? I have not really started tweaking it yet, just playing with the memory for now. 3733mhz cl14 in 1:1 mode and working on tightening the timings further.

I mentioned clock_watchdog_timeout BSODs I've been having before (when running @ stock with Intel limits), they only happen during very light loads so I guess it's some weird bug... (stress tests never crash). I've found other people reporting the exact same thing (on Asus forums, a Swedish forum and a Turkish forum - thanks Google Translate) but I'm not sure how widespread it is.

Disabling HT seemingly fixes it but that is a terrible workaround of course since many games actually make great use of it nowadays. In Total War Troy HT off is a 30% drop in framerate, lol (and that's at 4k ultra, I can't imagine with 1080p and low settings).

Even with HT off though; it is an overall massive upgrade over my tweaked 8700k setup for absolutely everything (including TW Troy which performs much better with the 8 physical cores of RKL vs the 12 threads of Coffee Lake). And this will only get better when I start tweaking the CPU itself (and reenable HT).


----------



## aznguyen316

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone able to delid the 11th gen without kill it yet?





Thanh Nguyen said:


> Just delid the 11900k and install supercool direct die for 10900k and flash bios 2101 on m12a.
> First problem, window has weird lag and does not detect nvidia card after install driver.
> Second problem, flash bios 2004 beta and now it posts code 00.
> is the chip dead?
> View attachment 2485819


Holy **** dude it feels like a troll post but then again previous posts mention having an 11900K on hand and asking about delid. OOF.


----------



## morph.

In abit of a bind now... Updated my bios for my m12F to v2102 used the rename util flashed it and worked fine on my 10850k reverted everything to default.

Drained my loop Swapped to my 11900k and getting one of two error codes on boot and can’t see any post.

94 - “load vga bios”
D7 - “load vga bios”
A2 - “HDD detect hdd”

Hmm what’s going on here... reseated my ram/pcie ribbon as well just to be sure everything is tight and not loose.

I may have to redrain my loop to access the nvme to reseat that but it’s unlikely that as those are fastened in....


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> In abit of a bind now... Updated my bios for my m12F to v2102 used the rename util flashed it and worked fine on my 10850k reverted everything to default.
> 
> Drained my loop Swapped to my 11900k and getting one of two error codes on boot and can’t see any post.
> 
> 94 - “load vga bios”
> D7 - “load vga bios”
> A2 - “HDD detect hdd”
> 
> Hmm what’s going on here... reseated my ram/pcie ribbon as well just to be sure everything is tight and not loose.
> 
> I may have to redrain my loop to access the nvme to reseat that but it’s unlikely that as those are fastened in....


This has happened before.
Swap back to the 10850k.
Then get the latest ME firmware from the ROG forums for Z490 then upgrade the ME firmware in windows.
After that, then use USB flashback and flash the bios to 2102..

If you want the newest microcode, you need to use "MMTool" on the bios image to manually patch in microcode 3C into the CPU patch area, and delete the older microcode 24 from the patch area. Then save the file as M12F,cap and then use USB flashback to upgrade (you can NOT use ezflash). Several people have done this successfully and it greatly will improve memory speeds and game FPS.


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> If you want the newest microcode, you need to use "MMTool" on the bios image to manually patch in microcode 3C into the CPU patch area, and delete the older microcode 24 from the patch area. Then save the file as M12F,cap and then use USB flashback to upgrade (you can NOT use ezflash). Several people have done this successfully and it greatly will improve memory speeds and game FPS.


Will this be necessary for the Z590 Hero, too or is it only relevant for Z490?


----------



## morph.

Managed to get inventive and got it to boot with an old vga card. I think I need to hard set it to pcie 3.0 for now some where...

Anyway SP85


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> This has happened before.
> Swap back to the 10850k.
> Then get the latest ME firmware from the ROG forums for Z490 then upgrade the ME firmware in windows.
> After that, then use USB flashback and flash the bios to 2102..
> 
> If you want the newest microcode, you need to use "MMTool" on the bios image to manually patch in microcode 3C into the CPU patch area, and delete the older microcode 24 from the patch area. Then save the file as M12F,cap and then use USB flashback to upgrade (you can NOT use ezflash). Several people have done this successfully and it greatly will improve memory speeds and game FPS.


@Falkentyne do you mean Maximus extreme firmware or intel me?

Can I trouble you to elaborate more regarding the firmware version. Are we talking about this one or something newer?










Would love a bit more direction about this MMTool & Microcode patch, please

I'm poking around in here too: Asus Z490 stuff

Thanks,


----------



## roooo

morph. said:


> Anyway SP85


Congrats!


----------



## satinghostrider

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Just delid the 11900k and install supercool direct die for 10900k and flash bios 2101 on m12a.
> First problem, window has weird lag and does not detect nvidia card after install driver.
> Second problem, flash bios 2004 beta and now it posts code 00.
> is the chip dead?
> View attachment 2485819


The reason why this is happening is because your ribbon is pcie 3.0 on a pcie 4.0 board. Depending on bios versions from my experience, you will consistently get failed nvidia driver with an exclamation mark in device manager.

As you may have already figured it out, you need to hard set it to pcie 3.0. It does this even with AMD boards. But varies from bios versions from my expsrience and setting it to auto creates more problems. Just set it to pcie 3.0 until you manage to change out your ribbon to a pcie 4.0 one then hard set it to pcie 4.0.


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> The reason why this is happening is because your ribbon is pcie 3.0 on a pcie 4.0 board. Depending on bios versions from my experience, you will consistently get failed nvidia driver with an exclamation mark in device manager.
> 
> As you may have already figured it out, you need to hard set it to pcie 3.0. It does this even with AMD boards. But varies from bios versions from my expsrience and setting it to auto creates more problems. Just set it to pcie 3.0 until you manage to change out your ribbon to a pcie 4.0 one then hard set it to pcie 4.0.


Yeah I've now hard set that to 3.0 for now will plug the 3090 back in and see what happens...

Dead curious about what @Falkentyne was referring to with microcode update etc...


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> Yeah I've now hard set that to 3.0 for now will plug the 3090 back in and see what happens...
> 
> Dead curious about what @Falkentyne was referring to with microcode update etc...


If you were experiencing what I've described as well, that is the only fix you need. I'm not sure about what he was saying too but it seems entirely different from your problem because I've faced it with my customers Systems, both Intel and AMD.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

satinghostrider said:


> If you were experiencing what I've described as well, that is the only fix you need. I'm not sure about what he was saying too but it seems entirely different from your problem because I've faced it with my customers Systems, both Intel and AMD.


I have that no detect gpu problem and a weird lag problem. For example when I type the word “ core” in google,it lags then it auto type corrrrrrrrrer.


----------



## satinghostrider

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I have that no detect gpu problem and a weird lag problem. For example when I type the word “ core” in google,it lags then it auto type corrrrrrrrrer.


Have you tried force setting to PCIE 3.0 in your bios?


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> If you were experiencing what I've described as well, that is the only fix you need. I'm not sure about what he was saying too but it seems entirely different from your problem because I've faced it with my customers Systems, both Intel and AMD.


Yep can confirm switching auto to PCIE 3.0 fixed it my 3090 is back online.... lucky I didn't re-drain my loop again haha it is a pita to do.


Now i need to figure out how to OC this thing as previously I used static sync all core method for my 8700k/10850k. This time I'll probably look at VF/VID offset points and per core etc... where to start hrmm...


----------



## clackersx

morph. said:


> @Falkentyne do you mean Maximus extreme firmware or intel me?
> 
> Can I trouble you to elaborate more regarding the firmware version. Are we talking about this one or something newer?
> 
> View attachment 2485855
> 
> 
> Would love a bit more direction about this MMTool & Microcode patch, please
> 
> I'm poking around in here too: Asus Z490 stuff
> 
> Thanks,


You could always check out UBU on the winraid forums. Automated tool for updating modules, roms and microcode in AMI UEFI. Requires installing python, installing a couple python tools, unzipping and renaming two different MMTOOL versions and most antivirus software hate some parts of it.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> Yeah I've now hard set that to 3.0 for now will plug the 3090 back in and see what happens...
> 
> Dead curious about what @Falkentyne was referring to with microcode update etc...





We'll be back.


----------



## i9forever

cstkl1 said:


> no sure his timings.. if he had posted some aidas.. could have seen his so call tight...
> 
> cause running 3333C14.. is no where close to my 4600C17...latency the 4600C17 already the same as 3333C14..... 43+ns


I am running stable at 4266, but I did some experiments on Gear1 today. I did not want to go below 3733 so there it is, 14-14-14-35, 43+ ns latency. MemTestPro about 400% 0 errors, Integrated memtest in the XIII Hero BIOS passed. Latency is indeed better than on my 4266 Gear2, but I am losing like 10GB/s read/write/copy. And the fact is, my 4266 is not fully tuned yet. And I am not an experienced overclocker. Guess I will go back to the 4266 and try to play with it a bit more. 11900K is just MCE enabled, did not have time to play with the honey yet  So many possibilities and so little time lol.


----------



## clackersx

Best I can do with gear 1


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> We'll be back.


Any better performance with this? If not, is there any advantage to upgrade?

I want the best performance, so "security" patches I don't care


----------



## clackersx

SSD Benchmarks.
11900K MCE/ABT otherwise auto/stock.
Gear 1 3733 14-15-15-30-2T. This time windows power plan set to high performance (note also last time ram was auto 2133 and with balanced power plan).
Full gallery
I ran the default settings and the nvme default settings in the latest crystaldiskmark and reran the samsung magician

GEN4 CPU









GEN3 CHIPSET INTEL RAID0


----------



## roooo

clackersx said:


> SSD Benchmarks.
> 11900K MCE/TVB otherwise auto/stock.
> Gear 1 3733 14-15-15-30-2T. This time windows power plan set to high performance (note also last time ram was auto 2133 and with balanced power plan).
> Full gallery
> I ran the default settings and the nvme default settings in the latest crystaldiskmark and reran the samsung magician
> 
> GEN4 CPU
> View attachment 2485885
> 
> 
> GEN3 CHIPSET INTEL RAID0
> View attachment 2485887


Thanks for sharing! Those are looking pretty promising, in contrast to a previous post today.

What BIOS version are you using?


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> Any better performance with this? If not, is there any advantage to upgrade?
> 
> I want the best performance, so "security" patches I don't care


to avoid 00 or no power button when trying to upgrade from an old bios.


----------



## clackersx

roooo said:


> Thanks for sharing! Those are looking pretty promising, in contrast to a previous post today.
> 
> What BIOS version are you using?


Just the latest from the asus website, 0704.


----------



## fray_bentos

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I have that no detect gpu problem and a weird lag problem. For example when I type the word “ core” in google,it lags then it auto type corrrrrrrrrer.


Might work better if you resolder those capacitors/resistors back onto your CPU.


----------



## HyperMatrix

fray_bentos said:


> Might work better if you resolder those capacitors/resistors back onto your CPU.


You mean these aren't optional?


----------



## aznguyen316

I did a thread search and found maybe two batch # posts but if anyone wants to share batch# and some SP values I would love to see. I know batch may not mean much but in my experience having same batch all had very similar SP on 10th Gen. 

The two I’ve seen in this thread are X10# with SP in the 80s. 

Anyone with SP90+ care to comment their batch for 11900K?

I’m asking because I have two new 11900K one my brother bought and one I have in hand. I will only open one. One has batch X104 the other one has V110 so different place of manufacturing and one is week 04 the other is week 10 of 2021, which is pretty recent. Haven’t seen any comment on having a V batch. Feel free to share please, you can find batch on the box label. Thanks all!


----------



## CallMeODZ

HyperMatrix said:


> You mean these aren't optional?


they are speed bumps to stop the chisel from hitting the die


----------



## HyperMatrix

CallMeODZ said:


> they are speed bumps to stop the chisel from hitting the die


Honestly I think he's optimized the CPU by moving the components closer to the die in order to lower latency.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Regarding batch # and SP
Most recent chip I got my hands on is from batch V110H184. I'm using an ROG Z590-I, and it gave me a 98. I've got two others, one at SP 93 and the other at SP 55, both from Vietnam. The SP 93 had a terrible IMC, the other two seem to have IMCs pretty close to the same.


----------



## MoeBen

HyperMatrix said:


> You mean these aren't optional?
> 
> View attachment 2485923


God .... what did you do you delided with a grinder LOL


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

MoeBen said:


> God .... what did you do you delided with a grinder LOL


I put it to the oven then uses too much force on the direct die mate kit.


----------



## Nizzen

Nizzen said:


> My team extreem 4500c18 b-die works pretty good on Apex z490 and 11900k
> BCLK 125mhz
> View attachment 2484689
> 
> View attachment 2484690
> 
> 
> No hickups yet
> View attachment 2484692


No more people with b-die and rocketlake here?


----------



## HyperMatrix

Nizzen said:


> No more people with b-die and rocketlake here?


Well I didn’t share cuz for some reason my memory latency is way higher than yours. It’s like 52.4ns even though I’m running 4000 CL14 with T1.


----------



## Nizzen

HyperMatrix said:


> Well I didn’t share cuz for some reason my memory latency is way higher than yours. It’s like 52.4ns even though I’m running 4000 CL14 with T1.


4000mhz is so 2017 😇


----------



## aznguyen316

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Regarding batch # and SP
> Most recent chip I got my hands on is from batch V110H184. I'm using an ROG Z590-I, and it gave me a 98. I've got two others, one at SP 93 and the other at SP 55, both from Vietnam. The SP 93 had a terrible IMC, the other two seem to have IMCs pretty close to the same.


Well damn the 11900K I received today from NewEgg is a V110H184 batch made in China. I may end up installing that one. Who knows though, still could have a huge variance. The X batches “Made in Vietnam” seem to be the most common right now. 

Thanks for sharing your batch and sp!


----------



## HyperMatrix

Nizzen said:


> 4000mhz is so 2017 😇


Latency should be about the same as your 5000 CL17 though. Unfortunately not playing out that way. Of course I also have 0 experience with memory overclocking so that’s not surprising. Haha.


----------



## MoeBen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I put it to the oven then uses too much force on the direct die mate kit.


i see next time no need for oven just heat gun and follow this


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> 4000mhz is so 2017 😇


The latencies around the 30s in CML will be more important than the latencies around the 40s in RKL for gaming even with the IPC improvement from RKL right?

I mean no matter how much the IPC improves in RKL, the latency is more important for gaming.


----------



## Nizzen

New 11900k arrived. Vietnam batch x103k331


----------



## roooo

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Regarding batch # and SP
> I've got two others, one at SP 93 and the other at SP 55, both from Vietnam. The SP 93 had a terrible IMC, the other two seem to have IMCs pretty close to the same.


Are they the same batch as the 98er?


----------



## fray_bentos

MoeBen said:


> i see next time no need for oven just heat gun and follow this


Have you confirmed whether or not you killed your delidded one yet?


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> No more people with b-die and rocketlake here?


Looking forward to sharing some later this weekend, if everything is panning out nicely...


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> New 11900k arrived. Vietnam batch x103k331
> View attachment 2485967


seems like a lot of variation on the 4.8 but not so much on the 5.1.. but still thats awesome cpu...


----------



## Arni90

HyperMatrix said:


> Latency should be about the same as your 5000 CL17 though. Unfortunately not playing out that way. Of course I also have 0 experience with memory overclocking so that’s not surprising. Haha.


That's only if you're looking at the time the memory chips themselves take to deliver data. The memory controller's latency varies with clock speed and the RTL value.
I'm guessing you're running your 4000 CL14 memory in gear 2, in which case you lose a lot of latency compared to those who can run 3866 in Gear 1 with very slight increases to theoretical bandwidth.



menko2 said:


> The latencies around the 30s in CML will be more important than the latencies around the 40s in RKL for gaming even with the IPC improvement from RKL right?
> 
> I mean no matter how much the IPC improves in RKL, the latency is more important for gaming.


Memory latency and bandwidth cannot be expressed as scalar values, different programs will create different access patterns and react differently to the same memory setup.
As Rocket Lake has improvements to branch prediction, larger registers, and larger caches to hide memory latency, it doesn't react the same to memory overclocking as Comet Lake did.
AIDA64 measures memory bandwidth using _synthetic_ code to determine the absolute maximum possible memory bandwidth, and minimum possible memory latency. The copy bandwidth in particular seems prone to hit the L3 cache, which is why Zen 2 used to hit numbers beyond what's theoretically possible, and probably why Rocket Lake copy numbers also reports memory copy as higher than theoretically possible at highly optimized Gear 1 settings.

Simply put: _*AIDA64 numbers are useless to determine performance differences between different CPU architectures*_, and should really only be used to compare the same memory frequency and CPU clock speeds.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Arni90 said:


> That's only if you're looking at the time the memory chips themselves take to deliver data. The memory controller's latency varies with clock speed and the RTL value.
> I'm guessing you're running your 4000 CL14 memory in gear 2, in which case you lose a lot of latency compared to those who can run 3866 in Gear 1 with very slight increases to theoretical bandwidth.


I’m running in gear 1. I’m just using XMP profile though which is the likely culprit. Even falkentyne had a screenshot where he was at 38ns latency.


----------



## menko2

Arni90 said:


> That's only if you're looking at the time the memory chips themselves take to deliver data. The memory controller's latency varies with clock speed and the RTL value.
> I'm guessing you're running your 4000 CL14 memory in gear 2, in which case you lose a lot of latency compared to those who can run 3866 in Gear 1 with very slight increases to theoretical bandwidth.
> 
> 
> Memory latency and bandwidth cannot be expressed as scalar values, different programs will create different access patterns and react differently to the same memory setup.
> As Rocket Lake has improvements to branch prediction, larger registers, and larger caches to hide memory latency, it doesn't react the same to memory overclocking as Comet Lake did.
> AIDA64 measures memory bandwidth using _synthetic_ code to determine the absolute maximum possible memory bandwidth, and minimum possible memory latency. The copy bandwidth in particular seems prone to hit the L3 cache, which is why Zen 2 used to hit numbers beyond what's theoretically possible, and probably why Rocket Lake copy numbers also reports memory copy as higher than theoretically possible at highly optimized Gear 1 settings.
> 
> Simply put: _*AIDA64 numbers are useless to determine performance differences between different CPU architectures*_, and should really only be used to compare the same memory frequency and CPU clock speeds.


I mean not Aida benchmark. I talk about gaming performance overall looking at the comparisons between the 10900k and 11900k both with high end ram kits. 

At the moment it seems the 10900k has a little edge over the 11900k.


----------



## Arni90

HyperMatrix said:


> I’m running in gear 1. I’m just using XMP profile though which is the likely culprit. Even falkentyne had a screenshot where he was at 38ns latency.


If your AIDA64 latency is as high as 52ns, you're definitely in Gear 2


----------



## Arni90

menko2 said:


> I mean not Aida benchmark. I talk about gaming performance overall looking at the comparisons between the 10900k and 11900k both with high end ram kits.
> 
> At the moment it seems the 10900k has a little edge over the 11900k.


It might be the memory access latency, but it might also be other parts of Comet Lake helping out, like the lower L1, L2, and L3 access latencies, or some instructions taking less clocks. Or simply code being highly optimized for Skylake-based cores...

The point is that laying the blame on a single, highly synthetic value like AIDA64 latency is a gross oversimplification at best. Zen 3 easily beats Comet Lake in quite a few games despite having higher memory access latency.


----------



## kalston

Arni90 said:


> If your AIDA64 latency is as high as 52ns, you're definitely in Gear 2


Yeah it probably couldn't boot in Gear 1 and BIOS auto switched it. Gear 2 4000mhz cl15 is 50+ ns for me (was it 55? not sure right now). Gear 1 3733mhz cl15 is 45ns with some apps open in the background. And that's with default xmp profile, no manual change to the timings.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

I'll grab a BIOS screenshot with V/f curve so we can compare. Currently validating a memory profile with 2x16 G.Skill 4266 C17 B dies @ 3866 C14 G1. Seems to be the best option for this CPU, as 4266 C16 G2 doesn't seem to do anything for me other than improve max bandwidth at the cost of significantly higher bandwidth and I can't seem to get 4533 C18 stable for the life of me. I've got a DR DJR kit that can do 4800 C18, not sure if the improved bandwidth is enough to offset the latency penalty from the B die @ 3866. It's ~43 vs ~51. The SP 93 chip couldn't even boot either of these profiles, so I was banging my head against the wall, wondering if I had crappy mem kits, crappy board etc. Decided to crack open the other two chips I had on hand and was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Nizzen

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I'll grab a BIOS screenshot with V/f curve so we can compare. Currently validating a memory profile with 2x16 G.Skill 4266 C17 B dies @ 3866 C14 G1. Seems to be the best option for this CPU, as 4266 C16 G2 doesn't seem to do anything for me other than improve max bandwidth at the cost of significantly higher bandwidth and I can't seem to get 4533 C18 stable for the life of me. I've got a DR DJR kit that can do 4800 C18, not sure if the improved bandwidth is enough to offset the latency penalty from the B die @ 3866. It's ~43 vs ~51. The SP 93 chip couldn't even boot either of these profiles, so I was banging my head against the wall, wondering if I had crappy mem kits, crappy board etc. Decided to crack open the other two chips I had on hand and was pleasantly surprised.


What voltages do you use for 3866?
VCCIO
VCCSA
VCCIO mem oc

Tnx


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Nizzen said:


> What voltages do you use for 3866?
> VCCIO
> VCCSA
> VCCIO mem oc
> 
> Tnx


1.05
1.35
1.35

3 hour run of TM5 passes at these values, just dropped IO mem and SA to 1.3 to see if that pulls any errors out. Obviously the lower the value I can get away with the better.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

aznguyen316 said:


> Well damn the 11900K I received today from NewEgg is a V110H184 batch made in China. I may end up installing that one. Who knows though, still could have a huge variance. The X batches “Made in Vietnam” seem to be the most common right now.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your batch and sp!


FWIW mine also came from NewEgg, I received it yesterday.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> What voltages do you use for 3866?
> VCCIO
> VCCSA
> VCCIO mem oc
> 
> Tnx


apex more problematic for gear 1 compare to extreme bro. until today cannot boot 4k. extreme can.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

roooo said:


> Are they the same batch as the 98er?


The first two are different X batches from Vietnam.
SP 93 - X110K737
SP 55 - X104L448


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> apex more problematic for gear 1 compare to extreme bro. until today cannot boot 4k. extreme can.


3733mhz for my new cpu too on Gear 1 with z490 Apex. z590 Apex coming monday, but have no high hopes for better results. For me it's Apex or nothing


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Anyone know if the V/f curves are dependent on the VRM design? I.E. the Strix-I has an effective 4 phase while the Hero has a 7 phase, would the V/f curve account for that in it's predictions? Or is it static across all boards with different VRM implementations?
As a side note, I think it was said that Asus was finally using Intersil designs, anyone know if the Strix-I is on Intersil as well? Or is it another rebranded ASP controller?



Nizzen said:


> 3733mhz for my new cpu too on Gear 1 with z490 Apex. z590 Apex coming monday, but have no high hopes for better results. For me it's Apex or nothing


Where did you order the Apex from? I haven't seen it available anywhere in North America.


----------



## IronAge

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> The first two are different X batches from Vietnam.
> SP 93 - X110K737
> SP 55 - X104L448


More recent Batches seem to be a lot better ?!


----------



## IronAge

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Where did you order the Apex from? I haven't seen it available anywhere in North America.


As of now it is available in Europe from just one Etailer,






ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX Mainboard - Intel Z590 - Intel LGA1200 socket - DDR4 RAM - ATX


478,32 € Mainboard, ATX, Intel LGA1200 Socket, Intel Z590, 1 x PCI-Express 4.0 x16 (11th Gen) & 1 x PCI-Express 3.0 x16, Dual DDR4-3200 - 2 x DIMM slots, 8 x SATA-600 / 3 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 & 1 x M.2 NVMe PCI-Express 4.0 (2242 / 2260 / 2280), USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type A & C, Intel I225-V 2.5...




www.proshop.de


----------



## morph.

Hrrm what's a safe 24x7 daily vid core voltage for the 11900k?

I feel like this looks abit high with my attempted oc/vf offset:


----------



## morph.

Nizzen said:


> No more people with b-die and rocketlake here?


I run a set of F4-3600C14D-32GTRS (2x16 3600 14-15-15-35)

Trying to wrap my head around getting a stable/solid cpu oc baseline first....

Previously on my 10850k's IMC, it managed a mediocre 4400MHz 17-18-18-37


----------



## morph.

removed my vf offset and the vid voltages look abit tamer they were previously pt 6 +0.050, pt7 +0.050, pt8 +0.0125


----------



## morph.

clackersx said:


> Best I can do with gear 1
> 
> View attachment 2485874


Did you touch secondary/tertiary timings as well as RTL/IOL?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 3733mhz for my new cpu too on Gear 1 with z490 Apex. z590 Apex coming monday, but have no high hopes for better results. For me it's Apex or nothing


bdie sr, djr sr/dr apex good

just bdie dr.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> bdie sr, djr sr/dr apex good
> 
> just bdie dr.


Yes dualrank is VERY hard for Rocketlake. I can't get over 4500/4533mhz c17 on DR 2x16.... CL 10900k does DR 4700c17 easy

Maybe we need some bioslove from the boss


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

I don't have any nice SR kits on hand... Trying to decide whether I should go for a SR B die or DJR kit to see what's possible.


----------



## morph.

I feel like my auto vccsa at the moment is way too high at 1.664v lol.... perhaps ill drop it to 1.35v


----------



## fray_bentos

morph. said:


> I run a set of F4-3600C14D-32GTRS (2x16 3600 14-15-15-35)
> 
> Trying to wrap my head around getting a stable/solid cpu oc baseline first....
> 
> Previously on my 10850k's IMC, it managed a mediocre 4400MHz 17-18-18-37
> View attachment 2485985
> 
> 
> View attachment 2485986


What IO / SA / Vdimm voltages were you running on your 10850K? I am curious because I am running a similar kit and may try your timings (depending on voltages).


----------



## Lownage

Apex XIII + 11900k (SP 97)
All Core 5.1 @ 1.45v @ LLC4; RAM @ XMP 4000c16-19-19-39 B-Die DR









CPU-Z IDLE Voltage seems off. 
HWInfo 1.35V - 1.385V 
CPU-Z: 1.6V









Is 1.45V safe for 24/7?


----------



## fray_bentos

Lownage said:


> Apex XIII + 11900k (SP 97)
> All Core 5.1 @ 1.45v @ LLC4; RAM @ XMP 4000c16-19-19-39 B-Die DR
> 
> CPU-Z IDLE Voltage seems off.
> HWInfo 1.35V - 1.385V
> CPU-Z: 1.6V
> 
> Is 1.45V safe for 24/7?


Your HWiNFO shots aren't showing Vcore. VID is not Vcore. The Vcore or VRout readings when you find them in HWiNFO should be close/same to those reportd by CPU-Z (VRout if you have that will likely be lower).


----------



## morph.

fray_bentos said:


> What IO / SA / Vdimm voltages were you running on your 10850K? I am curious because I am running a similar kit and may try your timings (depending on voltages).


They were:


----------



## Lownage

My Bad:


----------



## shamino1978

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Anyone know if the V/f curves are dependent on the VRM design? I.E. the Strix-I has an effective 4 phase while the Hero has a 7 phase, would the V/f curve account for that in it's predictions? Or is it static across all boards with different VRM implementations?
> As a side note, I think it was said that Asus was finally using Intersil designs, anyone know if the Strix-I is on Intersil as well? Or is it another rebranded ASP controller?
> 
> Where did you order the Apex from? I haven't seen it available anywhere in North America.


the v/f curve shown for the vf points is not directly related with any predictions but simply presenting the native curve 'gotten' from the cpu.
the pane on the right hand side has the actual predictions based on what you set, it is slightly different for some of the non-Maximus boards but not by much since the loadline levels are comparable 

it should be using an ASP chip


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Yes dualrank is VERY hard for Rocketlake. I can't get over 4500/4533mhz c17 on DR 2x16.... CL 10900k does DR 4700c17 easy
> 
> Maybe we need some bioslove from the boss


errr he knows.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Arni90 said:


> If your AIDA64 latency is as high as 52ns, you're definitely in Gear 2


It’s possible. I assumed Mode 1 and Mode 2 of “Maximus tweak” under memory settings was what Asus was calling Gear 1 and Gear 2. If anyone can pitch in on this it would be appreciated.


















Update: So either that’s not the gear selection setting and it’s running at full automatic right now, or the motherboard is ignoring it and defaulting to gear 2 when it has trouble running gear 1, without giving any messages/indicators. I dropped clocks from 4000MHz to 3200MHz and my latency dropped from 52ns to 46ns in AIDA64 indicating gear 1.


----------



## Humafold

Been away awhile. SP is Asus only correct? No way to check on an MSI board? Also any kit recommendations for 32gb? I’m going to see what this chip can do. Gear 2 above 4000 seems likely from what I see.


----------



## roooo

HyperMatrix said:


> It’s possible. I assumed Mode 1 and Mode 2 of “Maximus tweak” under memory settings was what Asus was calling Gear 1 and Gear 2. If anyone can pitch in on this it would be appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 2486008
> 
> 
> 
> Update: So either that’s not the gear selection setting and it’s running at full automatic right now, or the motherboard is ignoring it and defaulting to gear 2 when it has trouble running gear 1, without giving any messages/indicators. I dropped clocks from 4000MHz to 3200MHz and my latency dropped from 52ns to 46ns in AIDA64 indicating gear 1.


No, gear modes can be found under Extreme Tweaker - Memory Controller : DRAM Frequency Ratio.


----------



## wuttman

Arni90 said:


> Simply put: _*AIDA64 numbers are useless to determine performance differences between different CPU architectures*_, and should really only be used to compare the same memory frequency and CPU clock speeds.


I would disagree. Ram IO performance is L3 cache + the latency. L2 and L1 cache I think work more towards ipc and processing power. So you can't really compare latency to zen3 with 32mb L3, but sky vs rocket comparision is fair and pretty much explains why 11th gen so disappointing at gaming.


----------



## HyperMatrix

roooo said:


> No, gear modes can be found under Extreme Tweaker - Memory Controller : DRAM Frequency Ratio.


Well F me. That’s the ticket. Thanks mate. Now to figure out how to make her post. Haha.


----------



## GanjaSMK

Humafold said:


> Been away awhile. SP is Asus only correct? No way to check on an MSI board? Also any kit recommendations for 32gb? I’m going to see what this chip can do. Gear 2 above 4000 seems likely from what I see.


Specifically only because I have them and have enjoyed the performance. No idea on others. Don't base off my singular recommendation; but this kit has been great for me so far.

G.Skill Ripjaws 5 3200/C14 2x16GB


----------



## Lownage

This is the best I can boot atm. Aborted RAMTEST @ 1000%
VCCIO MEM OC: 1.4V
SA: 1.2V
VDIMM: 1.5V
4266 @ 1:2 @ 1T









Any tips on how to boot 4533?


----------



## Falkentyne

Lownage said:


> This is the best I can boot atm. Aborted RAMTEST @ 1000%
> VCCIO MEM OC: 1.4V
> SA: 1.2V
> VDIMM: 1.5V
> 4266 @ 1:2 @ 1T
> View attachment 2486014
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to boot 4533?


How many times did you run AIDA?
If it's just once that may be why your latency is too high.
Try running it a few more times and see if it drops a bit. Those timings should give about 46.5ns


----------



## GanjaSMK

@Humafold 

I am on 10850K though not 11 series - FYI ;p


----------



## Arni90

wuttman said:


> I would disagree. Ram IO performance is L3 cache + the latency.


No.



wuttman said:


> L2 and L1 cache I think work more towards ipc and processing power.


This statement doesn't even make sense, *all caches and memory have an impact on IPC*.
Even your SSD impacts IPC.



wuttman said:


> So you can't really compare latency to zen3 with 32mb L3, but sky vs rocket comparision is fair and pretty much explains why 11th gen so disappointing at gaming.


You can absolutely compare *memory latency* between different architectures, but the values you obtain *cannot* be used as a predictor for actual performance achieved in different workloads. You can make assumptions (especially with good models), but the only way to know for certain is to *benchmark the software in question*.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

The ssd impacts the IPC?***^^


----------



## roooo

Weird issue here, 11900k on Hero XIII with 0704 BIOS: It seems I can't change the Long Duration Package Power Limit - it will always show me a current value of 125 W.

Any suggestions, especially @Falkentyne ?


----------



## Arni90

PhoenixMDA said:


> The ssd impacts the IPC?***^^


Open up any program, and the CPU will perform some amount of *instructions*, depending on how fast your SSD is, the application will take a different time to open.
If one SSD+CPU+RAM opens the program in X seconds, and another SSD+CPU+RAM opens the program in 2X seconds, the *Instructions Per Cycle* is either halved or doubled depending on your perspective.


----------



## wuttman

Arni90 said:


> This statement doesn't even make sense, *all caches and memory have an impact on IPC*.
> Even your SSD impacts IPC.


Is that so for cinebench?


----------



## Arni90

wuttman said:


> Is that so for cinebench?


I don't think Cinebench gives a higher score with an SSD than HDD (unless you force the benchmark to reside in the pagefile), but faster memory timings does impact the score.
Even the single-threaded benchmark has a small portion which is multithreaded .


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@Arni90
In the most cases it will be work from ram, i know that you mean, but that is no direct impact to the IPC of the CPU.

Aida64 is very good to optimise the own system, but for performance check its good to take real workloads games and so on.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Falkentyne said:


> How many times did you run AIDA?
> If it's just once that may be why your latency is too high.
> Try running it a few more times and see if it drops a bit. Those timings should give about 46.5ns


Falk I'm running into the same issues with higher than expected latency. Share some of your wisdom please.


----------



## Arni90

PhoenixMDA said:


> @Arni90
> Aida64 is very good to optimise the own system, but for performance check its good to take real workloads games and so on.


I used to think the same, but this point made me reconsider: tRRDS, tRRDL, tFAW, and tWR: Coincidence or G.SKILL...


----------



## Nizzen

Lownage said:


> This is the best I can boot atm. Aborted RAMTEST @ 1000%
> VCCIO MEM OC: 1.4V
> SA: 1.2V
> VDIMM: 1.5V
> 4266 @ 1:2 @ 1T
> View attachment 2486014
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to boot 4533?


Is this 2x8 or 2x16?


----------



## wuttman

Arni90 said:


> I don't think Cinebench gives a higher score with an SSD than HDD


So you have no idea what you're taking about. As for ram tuning, it has very minor impact on score, unlike games.


----------



## Falkentyne

Lownage said:


> This is the best I can boot atm. Aborted RAMTEST @ 1000%
> VCCIO MEM OC: 1.4V
> SA: 1.2V
> VDIMM: 1.5V
> 4266 @ 1:2 @ 1T
> View attachment 2486014
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to boot 4533?





HyperMatrix said:


> Falk I'm running into the same issues with higher than expected latency. Share some of your wisdom please.
> 
> View attachment 2486018


Go into your BIOS DRAM, Memory training algorithms, enable "Round Trip Latency training", then try again.
(there are two settings right above and below Round Trip Latency Training. I think one is Turn around command timing training, and another one is I forgot, on the opposite side of Round Trip Latency. You can set both of those to "Disable").


----------



## encrypted11

MRC Fastboot disable, enable MCH Full check for full memory training.

But it'll be better if you txt dump your BIOS settings under the tools tab on the M13 thread or this thread.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Arni90 said:


> I used to think the same, but this point made me reconsider: tRRDS, tRRDL, tFAW, and tWR: Coincidence or G.SKILL...


Aida64 is only like a fast check, the Real Performance i test in FPS and other tests.better values in aida64 not every time mean that it is faster.

To find perfekt subs takes time and also the cooling of the dimms is very important thats also the reason why i dont drive CL16 at 4600+ or to hard subs.

Its like to find the perfekt sweetspot.


----------



## kylethepenguin

cstkl1 said:


> right right...
> so allow one do as much as it wants to hit whatever it does because hey helpless. aib has a sio that can implement EXACT control. but hey agesa right.. blame aib when its all a front with agesa.
> 
> and limit the other cpu in this case intel.
> typical.
> 
> but guess which company has a detailed electrical spec data sheet and full breakdown??
> 
> who knows what the cpu doing.
> 
> doubt silicon lottery from the idiot who spent so much time on 10700k on hero z490 just to get it to 5ghz.
> 
> anyway the fun on da cpu is ram oc.
> have fun.


This is forever ago, I'm curious if you have a link for the i9 11900k detailed electrical spec data sheet and full breakdown? I would love to review this material to better understand my overclocking strategy with my 11900k.

Thanks in advance. Looking at your post history in this thread, you're a pro.


----------



## Groove2013

wuttman said:


> I would disagree. Ram IO performance is L3 cache + the latency. L2 and L1 cache I think work more towards ipc and processing power. So you can't really compare latency to zen3 with 32mb L3, but sky vs rocket comparision is fair and pretty much explains why 11th gen so disappointing at gaming.


Yes, since cache frequency further helps to get lower Aida RAM latency, additionally to gear 1 or 1:1 mode.
But since 4.5 GHz is pretty much the max you can do as cache frequency, it further increases Aida RAM latency.


----------



## Falkentyne

Groove2013 said:


> Yes, since cache frequency further helps to get lower Aida RAM latency, additionally to gear 1 or 1:1 mode.
> But since 4.5 GHz is pretty much the max you can do as cache frequency, it further increases Aida RAM latency.


Mine's 4.7 ghz cache as I posted in the SS. And that's just an average chip.


----------



## jomama22

kylethepenguin said:


> This is forever ago, I'm curious if you have a link for the i9 11900k detailed electrical spec data sheet and full breakdown? I would love to review this material to better understand my overclocking strategy with my 11900k.
> 
> Thanks in advance. Looking at your post history in this thread, you're a pro.











Intel® Core™ Processors Technical Resources


Intel® Core™ processors technical resources list includes applications notes, datasheets, packing information, product briefs, and more.




www.intel.com





This is what you are looking for. Volume 1 and volume 2 what you want to look for. 

Just gives voltage specs and such for different rails. How much that will help is up to you, but just give their spec maximums.


----------



## Arni90

wuttman said:


> So you have no idea what you're taking about. As for ram tuning, it has very minor impact on score, unlike games.


So AIDA64 memory latency is a good indicator of gaming performance given similar L3 cache capacity?

I have never found that to be true, _but you are of course the expert_, as I have _no_ idea what I'm talking about.

EDIT: And obviously, since you are the expert here, only L1 and L2 caches impact IPC. So overclocking memory is pointless


----------



## Groove2013

2x8 GB Triden Z (B-DIE) XMP 4000 MHz 15-16-16-36 1.5V
@ 4800 MHz 16-17-17-28-265-1 | VCCSA/VCCIO 1.072V | vDIMM 1.611V
@ sub 30°C for RAM modules
@ Apex Z490 BIOS 0098
@ 5.2/4.5 GHz core/cache *SP97*


----------



## Groove2013

2x8 GB Triden Z (B-DIE) XMP 4000 MHz 15-16-16-36 1.5V
@ 5000 MHz *17*-17-17-28-*320*-1 | VCCSA *1.488*V | VCCIO 1.072V | vDIMM 1.611V
@ 30°C for RAM modules
@ Apex Z490 BIOS 0098
@ 5.2/4.5 GHz core/cache *SP97*


----------



## Groove2013

Really borring since dual rank B-DIE can't go past 4133-4266 MHz, for most people, for the moment and single rank only like 4800 MHz, but only 16 GB, which nowadays is almost like 8 GB from some time ago and in games still can't beat 1:1 Comet Lake 4266-4600 MHz CL16/17 dual rank B-DIE.


----------



## Groove2013

And buying super expensive boards like Apex or Extreme in order to do 3800 or 4000 MHz 1:1 or 4800-5066 MHz 1:2 just to post screens here and in other places, but still only 16 GB, not 24/7 stable and worse in games than cheaper Comet Lake... I don't know.


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> Go into your BIOS DRAM, Memory training algorithms, enable "Round Trip Latency training", then try again.
> (there are two settings right above and below Round Trip Latency Training. I think one is Turn around command timing training, and another one is I forgot, on the opposite side of Round Trip Latency. You can set both of those to "Disable").


Just a heads-up from my perspective, enabling Round Trip Latency Training in BIOS reduced my RTLs from 72/74 to 61/62 at 3733 MHz, that's a massive improvement. I went from 217 to 230 fps in SotTR at Highest preset with resulotion set to minimum just by enabling RTL training.


----------



## morph.

Arni90 said:


> Just a heads-up from my perspective, enabling Round Trip Latency Training in BIOS reduced my RTLs from 72/74 to 61/62 at 3733 MHz, that's a massive improvement. I went from 217 to 230 fps in SotTR at Highest preset with resulotion set to minimum just by enabling RTL training.


 Did you play with ppd/txp as well these give some latency improvements too.

what are your actual sub timings?


----------



## cstkl1

kylethepenguin said:


> This is forever ago, I'm curious if you have a link for the i9 11900k detailed electrical spec data sheet and full breakdown? I would love to review this material to better understand my overclocking strategy with my 11900k.
> 
> Thanks in advance. Looking at your post history in this thread, you're a pro.


aint a pro. just a ram nut. leave that to nizzen, oldfatsheep, gunslinger etc

google dude. 









Intel® Core™ Processors Technical Resources


Intel® Core™ processors technical resources list includes applications notes, datasheets, packing information, product briefs, and more.




www.intel.com


----------



## bscool

morph. said:


> Did you play with ppd/txp as well these give some latency improvements too.
> 
> what are your actual sub timings?


What are you setting PPD to? It has no effect on z490 Apex and 11900k as far as I can tell. Using the latest memtweak it shows 1 no matter what it is set to in the bios.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> What are you setting PPD to? It has no effect on z490 Apex and 11900k as far as I can tell. Using the latest memtweak it shows 1 no matter what it is set to in the bios.












Its one of the power down options. Disable it (==0) allows your ram to run full speed all the time. 

MSI has an option to disable all three of them by one click. Or per the def. you can just set tCKE=0.


----------



## bscool

Yes I know what it is and does I am saying it does not work for me on 11900k, does it still work for you with z590?

Maybe it is my combo of z490 mb and 11900k I know it worked with z490 cpus for me.

Edit also tried setting tCKE to 0 and no difference using adia64 to check latency.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> Yes I know what it is and does I am saying it does not work for me on 11900k, does it still work for you with z590?


It has a tiny boost in aida latency and MLC bench. I am now rocking an MSI Z590i. I have sold my M12A so cant really tell.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> 2x8 GB Triden Z (B-DIE) XMP 4000 MHz 15-16-16-36 1.5V
> @ 4800 MHz 16-17-17-28-265-1 | VCCSA/VCCIO 1.072V | vDIMM 1.611V
> @ sub 30°C for RAM modules
> @ Apex Z490 BIOS 0098
> @ 5.2/4.5 GHz core/cache *SP97*





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It has a tiny boost in aida latency and MLC bench. I am now rocking an MSI Z590i. I have sold my M12A so cant really tell.


try using runmemtestpro 5.0
curious to see ure actual performance

like this


----------



## kylethepenguin

Arni90 said:


> 's a run I did with my 5900X at locked 4.7 GHz all core with SMT on, and memory tweaked:





cstkl1 said:


> thread like asus exclusive..
> 
> nobody bought giga/msi etc??
> 
> asrock??


I just got an 11900k running on an MSI MEG z490 ACE.

Most recent bios from msi is from February. I'm hoping there is more features coming with the update, but this bios is pretty sparse when it comes to CPU tuning.

No options for v/f chart / setup. Can't individually select your best cores in bios. 

I'm relatively noob, so I like the RAM presets. But I'm going to dig in and get my Trident Z b-dies (3200 cl14) running fast.


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> What are you setting PPD to? It has no effect on z490 Apex and 11900k as far as I can tell. Using the latest memtweak it shows 1 no matter what it is set to in the bios.


On my z490 M12F

My default memory settings baseline with XMP 1 enabled:









Setting PPD to 0 and TXP to 4 from auto - shaved 2.6ns of the latency.


----------



## bscool

@morph have you compared it after tweaking all sub timings? I know it doesn't make a difference for me on z490 Apex and 11990k once I tweak subs, maybe it does just using xmp. I will have to try it sometime. I also see @Groove2013 posted in his latest video notes z490 Apex cant adjust

Another thought, unless it is a bug were it works under certain clocks. I notice round trip latency does not work for me in 1:1 and 1t. I see you are using cr2 maybe that is why. You should be using cr1 I would think. But then i think it really limits the clocks. I think I am stuck at 3333 with 1t and 1:1. Hmmm a lot of I don't knows 

Edit; I just Ran xmp 3600 cr2 and compared Xmp 3600 cr2 with ppd0 and txp 4 makes no difference on z490 Apex and 11900k.


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> @morph have you compared it after tweaking all sub timings? I know it doesn't make a difference for me on z490 Apex and 11990k once I tweak subs, maybe it does just using xmp. I will have to try it sometime. I also see @Groove2013 posted in his latest video notes z490 Apex cant adjust


I did with my 10850k and it behaved the same.

Not really planning to invest much time in overclocking/optimising ram/sub timings just yet. As new bios's will constantly come out. I plan to wait a little while till it matures abit then do it as it will be a lot of time sunk.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> try using runmemtestpro 5.0
> curious to see ure actual performance
> 
> like this
> View attachment 2486083


Great. Wasn't aware of such a function in 5.0. I'll try it when my 3rd 11900K is here. The previous 2 were just junk...


----------



## HyperMatrix

Memory still not great. But that's the best single core CPU-Z score I've gotten so far. Having trouble getting memory stable at 4533MHz. It's 1.55V at 4266MHz with 15-15-15-36 and T1. And I can boot into windows and run AIDA64 no problem with same settings at 4533MHz, and I actually see the improvement to bandwidth and latency. But there are still memory errors occuring. Tried upping voltage to 1.65V but no go. Still boots into windows fine, but still dealing with memory instability.

















Highest single core score:


----------



## wuttman

Arni90 said:


> EDIT: And obviously, since you are the expert here, only L1 and L2 caches impact IPC. So overclocking memory is pointless


Are you sure you read my comments properly? Gaming performance = IO performance + compute performance. First depends on L3 design + ram latency and bandwidth, second - ipc and clocks.


----------



## Bilco

kylethepenguin said:


> I just got an 11900k running on an MSI MEG z490 ACE.
> 
> Most recent bios from msi is from February. I'm hoping there is more features coming with the update, but this bios is pretty sparse when it comes to CPU tuning.
> 
> No options for v/f chart / setup. Can't individually select your best cores in bios.
> 
> I'm relatively noob, so I like the RAM presets. But I'm going to dig in and get my Trident Z b-dies (3200 cl14) running fast.


Start hounding MSI on social media with me about lacking support on their 400 series boards which they sold under pretext of supporting 11th gen. I am not happy about dropping $700 on a flagship mobo for it to be abandoned 18 months later when the next gen chip launched on it.


----------



## fray_bentos

kylethepenguin said:


> I just got an 11900k running on an MSI MEG z490 ACE.
> 
> Most recent bios from msi is from February. I'm hoping there is more features coming with the update, but this bios is pretty sparse when it comes to CPU tuning.
> 
> No options for v/f chart / setup. Can't individually select your best cores in bios.
> 
> I'm relatively noob, so I like the RAM presets. But I'm going to dig in and get my Trident Z b-dies (3200 cl14) running fast.


V/F should be available under "advanced offset" under voltage settings and then click the new option that appears. Is that missing?


----------



## fray_bentos

morph. said:


> Did you play with ppd/txp as well these give some latency improvements too.
> 
> what are your actual sub timings?


I tried changing PPD and TXP previously, it gave improved scores in synthetic benchmarks, but in games it gave noticeable frame pacing issues and stuttering. E.g. latency dropped a lot in AIDA, but there were clear downward spikes in the Assassin's Creed Odyssey benchmark, even though the average score improved, for example. Has anyone had success with such settings without introducing such issues in real life usage?


----------



## Arni90

wuttman said:


> Are you sure you read my comments properly? Gaming performance = IO performance + compute performance. First depends on L3 design + ram latency and bandwidth, second - ipc and clocks.


The problem is that your statement contradicts itself. Software performance is dependent upon how many instructions per second are processed, and IPS can then be broken down into frequency and IPC.

IPC is an abbreviation for instructions per cycle, and refers to the amount of instructions a processor will perform per given cycle. IPC is by no means a static number, and will vary depending on program code, microarchitecture, caching, microcode, and OS scheduling.

In any game, there's a lot of branching, which results in the CPU having to either wait for the correct data (either from memory or storage) to evaluate what to do. It can either wait for the data (stall), pick a branch and continue working on the code (branch prediction), or try to evaluate several branches at once and discard the non-used branch when the relevant data arrives (speculative execution). _This is why memory overclocking helps in games: it increases the amount of IPC calculated_.

In older games which lacked caching algorithms, the game would also freeze whenever you saved, the IPC in this window was then dependent upon how fast your storage was.


----------



## weleh

HyperMatrix said:


> Memory still not great. But that's the best single core CPU-Z score I've gotten so far. Having trouble getting memory stable at 4533MHz. It's 1.55V at 4266MHz with 15-15-15-36 and T1. And I can boot into windows and run AIDA64 no problem with same settings at 4533MHz, and I actually see the improvement to bandwidth and latency. But there are still memory errors occuring. Tried upping voltage to 1.65V but no go. Still boots into windows fine, but still dealing with memory instability.
> 
> View attachment 2486097
> View attachment 2486096
> 
> 
> Highest single core score:
> View attachment 2486099


Not bad


----------



## morph.

fray_bentos said:


> I tried changing PPD and TXP previously, it gave improved scores in synthetic benchmarks, but in games it gave noticeable frame pacing issues and stuttering. E.g. latency dropped a lot in AIDA, but there were clear downward spikes in the Assassin's Creed Odyssey benchmark, even though the average score improved, for example. Has anyone had success with such settings without introducing such issues in real life usage?


Never noticed these adverse effects.


----------



## roooo

I just discovered a nifty Intel tool which is supposed to measure memory latency and bandwidth and also allows to disable prefetching (default). I'm currently toying with the Linux version but it also comes with a Windows command line version. Has anyone tried this yet and compared it to AIDA et al.?









Intel® Memory Latency Checker v3.9a


Intel® Memory Latency Checker (Intel® MLC) is a tool used to measure memory latencies and b/w, and how they change with increasing load on the system.




software.intel.com


----------



## ldt

Lownage said:


> This is the best I can boot atm. Aborted RAMTEST @ 1000%
> VCCIO MEM OC: 1.4V
> SA: 1.2V
> VDIMM: 1.5V
> 4266 @ 1:2 @ 1T
> View attachment 2486014
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to boot 4533?


Can you share me 0704 BIOS Version for M13 Apex , Thanks !


----------



## fray_bentos

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Great. Wasn't aware of such a function in 5.0. I'll try it when my 3rd 11900K is here. The previous 2 were just junk...


Insert quote about "the definition of insanity..."


----------



## Lownage

ldt said:


> Can you share me 0704 BIOS Version for M13 Apex , Thanks !





https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/ROG_MAXIMUS_XIII_APEX/ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0704.ZIP


----------



## Nizzen

fray_bentos said:


> Insert quote about "the definition of insanity..."


Yes good luck finding a 11900k that has the performance fixed 😇

One question I wonder about: Why is the L1 cache on Rocketlake 20% slower than Comedylake? They killed the ipc improvement with higher latency cache?


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> Go into your BIOS DRAM, Memory training algorithms, enable "Round Trip Latency training", then try again.
> (there are two settings right above and below Round Trip Latency Training. I think one is Turn around command timing training, and another one is I forgot, on the opposite side of Round Trip Latency. You can set both of those to "Disable").


THANKS - turning on RTL training was very helpful and reduced latency by roughly 3ns for me. However, both disabling Late Command Training and Timing Training would prevent my system from POSTing.


----------



## Encode_GR

Falkentyne said:


> Go into your BIOS DRAM, Memory training algorithms, enable "Round Trip Latency training", then try again.
> (there are two settings right above and below Round Trip Latency Training. I think one is Turn around command timing training, and another one is I forgot, on the opposite side of Round Trip Latency. You can set both of those to "Disable").


Is this for Gear 2 only ?


----------



## roooo

Encode_GR said:


> Is this for Gear 2 only ?


I have only tried in Gear 1 so far, where it gave me 3ns lower latencies.


----------



## Encode_GR

roooo said:


> I have only tried in Gear 1 so far, where it gave me 3ns lower latencies.


I'm on Gear 1 as well, ok will try it.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Alright, here we go:










Here's the best I could manage in Gear1 mode:










Does the Apex just allow for that much better latency? I remember @cstkl1 posting a run with sub 40ns on launch day. Not sure there's much else to tune at this point, subs, turnarounds and RTLs are just about as tight as I can get them.


----------



## Arni90

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Alright, here we go:
> 
> View attachment 2486132
> 
> 
> Here's the best I could manage in Gear1 mode:
> 
> View attachment 2486133
> 
> 
> Does the Apex just allow for that much better latency? I remember @cstkl1 posting a run with sub 40ns on launch day. Not sure there's much else to tune at this point, subs, turnarounds and RTLs are just about as tight as I can get them.


Raise cache frequency to 45-47x


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll see what I can do. Haven't done much in the way of core/cache tuning, is 5.3 all core realistic for good samples? Cache is driven off of core as well, correct?


----------



## ezsdfl

I have an i7-11700k arriving on Friday. I’ve been trying to go back several pages looking for anticipated OC voltages — hoping for 49x overclock (or 50x if lucky), with a few turbo core offsets at 52x or 53x. However, I haven’t found many videos or forum posts yet. 

Hoping 1.3v for 49x.. 1.35v for 50x? However, reading it’s power hungry, so I suspect these are likely wishful thinking..? 

If 1.35v - 1.4v were upper limit “safer” peaks for Comet Lake — has Rocket Lake i7 equivalents been identified yet?

Thanks


----------



## HyperMatrix

Running into an issue with my cpu. I’m able to run 6 cores at 5400MHz (limiting core affinity through task manager while running intel burn test) but get WHEA errors trying even 5200MHz all core, regardless of voltage. Temps in the low 60s. So I’m thinking I have one bum core holding everything back. Gonna pop in a new 11900k from the same batch tomorrow to see what happens. Sad panda. Was a good chip otherwise.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Think I'm just about ready to finish up my tuning and start actually playing some games at this point. Thanks @Arni90 for suggesting a cache multiplier increase.
That plus Per Core usage clocking of:

53
53
53
53
52
52
51
51

Has gotten me some really excellent performance gains across the board, not just Aida. Temps are low low 70s for all core AVX work loads, which is pretty great honestly. What drew me to Rocket Lake is the fact that initial reviews show a pretty substantial in FPS lows across the board - even compared to 5800/5900x. I only expect that tuning will expose even greater gains here. Don't really care for the highest averages - in my experience, the number one metric to look for for fluid, high refresh experiences is in the lows.

As a side note, how are some Aida runs showing higher than theoretical maximum bandwidth numbers? That's wild.


----------



## PovGRide742

morph. said:


> default memory settings baseline with XMP 1 enabled:
> View attachment 2486089


How?! I'm guessing the same memory kit, stock XMP:









Even with days of fine tuning I'm still over 50ns. 

I'm running 2x16GB if it means anything.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

PovGRide742 said:


> How?! I'm guessing the same memory kit, stock XMP:
> View attachment 2486161
> 
> 
> Even with days of fine tuning I'm still over 50ns.
> 
> I'm running 2x16GB if it means anything.


This is in gear 2 (1:2). You should manually set "1:1" in the BIOS


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Also looks like your cache may have down binned - it will definitely impact your results running at that speed.


----------



## PovGRide742

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This is in gear 2 (1:2). You should manually set "1:1" in the BIOS


While I wish it was, it's not. Even manually set to 1:1, 3733, and 1.5V, I'm still about 50ns.



Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Also looks like your cache may have down binned - it will definitely impact your results running at that speed.


I'm gonna Google what you mean by this but if you're willing to explain what you mean I won't stop you, lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

PovGRide742 said:


> While I wish it was, it's not. Even manually set to 1:1, 3733, and 1.5V, I'm still about 50ns.
> 
> 
> I'm gonna Google what you mean by this but if you're willing to explain what you mean I won't stop you, lol.


Your memory bus shows as gear 2. Look at the screenshot in AIDA. 1800 mhz. If it were gear 1 it would show 3600 mhz.
Can you post a screenshot of your BIOS settings, in that area, please?


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

PovGRide742 said:


> While I wish it was, it's not. Even manually set to 1:1, 3733, and 1.5V, I'm still about 50ns.
> 
> 
> I'm gonna Google what you mean by this but if you're willing to explain what you mean I won't stop you, lol.


The cache will downclock to save power. I haven't been inside your BIOS, but mine has an option to force the cache to run at the maximum requested frequency by explicitly disabling down binning.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> View attachment 2486159
> 
> 
> Think I'm just about ready to finish up my tuning and start actually playing some games at this point. Thanks @Arni90 for suggesting a cache multiplier increase.
> That plus Per Core usage clocking of:
> 
> 53
> 53
> 53
> 53
> 52
> 52
> 51
> 51
> 
> Has gotten me some really excellent performance gains across the board, not just Aida. Temps are low low 70s for all core AVX work loads, which is pretty great honestly. What drew me to Rocket Lake is the fact that initial reviews show a pretty substantial in FPS lows across the board - even compared to 5800/5900x. I only expect that tuning will expose even greater gains here. Don't really care for the highest averages - in my experience, the number one metric to look for for fluid, high refresh experiences is in the lows.
> 
> As a side note, how are some Aida runs showing higher than theoretical maximum bandwidth numbers? That's wild.


What sort of core vid voltages are you getting?

With MCE/power limits unlocked and LLC at 6, I'm getting up to 1.525v for core vid unsure if that is too high or not tbh for 24x7 did you bother increasing the vf curve offset when running 4 cores at 53 etc?


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

I get about 1.42 VID on auto settings, leading to ~1.368 under load. I'm playing with offsets to see how low I can go while maintaining stability. I tried v/f offsets but they didn't behave as I expected at all - everything I tried les to higher requests at all frequencies. Maybe I just don't know how to set it lol.


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> How?! I'm guessing the same memory kit, stock XMP:
> View attachment 2486161
> 
> 
> Even with days of fine tuning I'm still over 50ns.
> 
> I'm running 2x16GB if it means anything.


The only thing I changed for ram after loading xmp 1 is PPD 0, TXP 4. My uncore ratio is still at its default value for now.


----------



## bscool

@PovGRide742 

Do you have other programs running in windows, are you high power plan, power savings features turned off in bios etc. All those things will affect latency. I can see you are in gear 1 as you would not be able to select 3600 in gear 2. At least I cant on the z490 Apex. It is jumps from 3466 to 3733 in gear 2. 

Use Asrock timing config to see gear mode in windows. Download in this thread ASRock Z590 OC Formula Overclocking Thread

Then you can screen shot all your timings and post them.


----------



## bscool

@shamino1978 what is the scoop, does ppd/txp have an affect on z590 or is it just not working with z490 Apex and 11900k. Inquiring minds need to know


----------



## PovGRide742

Falkentyne said:


> Your memory bus shows as gear 2. Look at the screenshot in AIDA. 1800 mhz. If it were gear 1 it would show 3600 mhz.
> Can you post a screenshot of your BIOS settings, in that area, please?


If I'm not mistaken, and from what I read here, in Gear 1, the memory bus will read at the Data Rate of the memory, and being that DDR4 is Dual Data Rate, 1800 would be correct, and 900 would be 1:2. But anyway, here you go:









EDIT: Just realized I didn't get a screenshot of 1:1. Anyway, I choose 100:133, 1:1, and DDR4-3600MHz. Here you go:











Dead_Bot_42 said:


> The cache will downclock to save power. I haven't been inside your BIOS, but mine has an option to force the cache to run at the maximum requested frequency by explicitly disabling down binning.
> 
> View attachment 2486163


Found it. Did net me some gains but still not below 50. What's the actual risk of this overvolting the CPU like it mentions in the BIOS? Here are my results after disabling:











morph. said:


> The only thing I changed for ram after loading xmp 1 is PPD 0, TXP 4. My uncore ratio is still at its default value for now.


Did you disable Ring Down Bin as well (just so I'm comparing apples to apples)? And you posted two results I thought, one before PPD 0, TXP 4, and one after, to show what it netted you?



bscool said:


> @PovGRide742
> 
> Do you have other programs running in windows, are you high power plan, power savings features turned off in bios etc. All those things will affect latency. I can see you are in gear 1 as you would not be able to select 3600 in gear 2. At least I cant on the z490 Apex. It is jumps from 3466 to 3733 in gear 2.
> 
> Use Asrock timing config to see gear mode in windows. Download in this thread ASRock Z590 OC Formula Overclocking Thread
> 
> Then you can screen shot all your timings and post them.


Sooo, maybe, lol. Avast, Afterburner, and CAM. Balanced Plan Setting, haven't touched any power settings in BIOS. I'll try when I have some more time to try it without that stuff. Gear 1 requires 100:133 so you are correct, can't do 3600 in Gear 2 (if I'm not mistaken).

Edit: What I said didn't make sense. Gear 1 is limited to 100:133, Gear 2 can do either, so Gear 2 should be able to do 3600. Regardless... I'm in Gear 1.

I wasn't aware the timing config worked on Z590 yet... thank you!


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Mmm, those programs are probably gonna kill your latency results. I installed Aqua computer Aquasuite to set up my quadro and it added ~3 ns on its own before I uninstalled it.

Also, I didn't see any difference in vcore before/after disabling that setting myself. Keep an eye on it just in case.


----------



## menko2

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> The first two are different X batches from Vietnam.
> SP 93 - X110K737
> SP 55 - X104L448


I haven't opened yet until I decide between the 10900k and the 11900k.

10900k is SP 92.

11900k is batch V052G589 made in china.

Is the batch of the 11900k from China or worse than Vietnam?


----------



## PovGRide742

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Mmm, those programs are probably gonna kill your latency results. I installed Aqua computer Aquasuite to set up my quadro and it added ~3 ns on its own before I uninstalled it.
> 
> Also, I didn't see any difference in vcore before/after disabling that setting myself. Keep an eye on it just in case.


Didn't think it would affect latency that much. But as long as it decreases with timing changes, I guess it doesn't much matter if they're on because they always are when I use my computer. Not trying to be competitive... just making sure my computer isn't underperforming.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

The first from Vietnam was SP 93, clocked decently from what I could see, but had an awful IMC. The second one read as SP 55, had a better IMC though. The one from China is running very nicely, seems to be an average to above average IMC as well. I'm curious to see if the other CPU from the same batch is similar.


----------



## menko2

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> The first from Vietnam was SP 93, clocked decently from what I could see, but had an awful IMC. The second one read as SP 55, had a better IMC though. The one from China is running very nicely, seems to be an average to above average IMC as well. I'm curious to see if the other CPU from the same batch is similar.


I'm tempted to install the 11900k but my 10900k is SP92 and took me a lot to find a good chip.

As well i have a samsung b die single rank 2x8gb. Might not be good enough for 11900k. It's 3600mhz 15-15-15-35 @1.35v stock.

But I'm tempted.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I get about 1.42 VID on auto settings, leading to ~1.368 under load. I'm playing with offsets to see how low I can go while maintaining stability. I tried v/f offsets but they didn't behave as I expected at all - everything I tried les to higher requests at all frequencies. Maybe I just don't know how to set it lol.


did you dial in LLC? Mines currently at 6.

Yeah i'm seeing these "max" corevid voltages and this is on stock core ratios, for now and it makes me a little nervous:










Especially when this is my VF offset:


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, and from what I read here, in Gear 1, the memory bus will read at the Data Rate of the memory, and being that DDR4 is Dual Data Rate, 1800 would be correct, and 900 would be 1:2. But anyway, here you go:
> View attachment 2486172
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just realized I didn't get a screenshot of 1:1. Anyway, I choose 100:133, 1:1, and DDR4-3600MHz. Here you go:
> View attachment 2486174
> 
> 
> 
> Found it. Did net me some gains but still not below 50. What's the actual risk of this overvolting the CPU like it mentions in the BIOS? Here are my results after disabling:
> View attachment 2486173
> 
> 
> 
> Did you disable Ring Down Bin as well (just so I'm comparing apples to apples)? And you posted two results I thought, one before PPD 0, TXP 4, and one after, to show what it netted you?
> 
> 
> Sooo, maybe, lol. Avast, Afterburner, and CAM. Balanced Plan Setting, haven't touched any power settings in BIOS. I'll try when I have some more time to try it without that stuff. Gear 1 requires 100:133 so you are correct, can't do 3600 in Gear 2 (if I'm not mistaken).
> 
> Edit: What I said didn't make sense. Gear 1 is limited to 100:133, Gear 2 can do either, so Gear 2 should be able to do 3600. Regardless... I'm in Gear 1.
> 
> I wasn't aware the timing config worked on Z590 yet... thank you!


Yes RDB is disabled.

Im running XMP1 not XMP2 (afaik xmp1 has better sub timings)


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

morph. said:


> did you dial in LLC?


Working @ LLC4 right now. After -.050 offset I'm looking at ~ 1.332 under load, hasn't crashed --- yet.



morph. said:


> Yeah i'm seeing these "max" corevid voltages and this is on stock core ratios, for now and it makes me a little nervous:
> 
> View attachment 2486183
> 
> 
> Especially when this is my VF offset:
> 
> View attachment 2486182


This is my first Asus board ever, so I may be mistaken but isn't LLC 6 higher than 4? As in 0 is most vdroop, 7 is least? I did set my SVID behavior in BIOS to "trained" and that may be what's giving me lower values. Those voltages are definitely a bit high for comfort though.


----------



## PovGRide742

morph. said:


> Yes RDB is disabled.
> 
> Im running XMP1 not XMP2 (afaik xmp1 has better sub timings)


Ah okay.

I noticed that but I got slightly worse (but extremely close) results with XMP I. Some things it sets slightly tighter tFAW, but looser tRRDS/L.

It's been a long past several days:








Where the AIDA64 columns go black is when I started noticing backwards performance and switched to Intel MLC, Metro Exodus in-game benchmark, and GeekBench. I don't really pay too much attention to GeekBench, but when all this was only netting 1-2 FPS, I stopped testing, just set XMP II, and called it a day.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Working @ LLC4 right now. After -.050 offset I'm looking at ~ 1.332 under load, hasn't crashed --- yet.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my first Asus board ever, so I may be mistaken but isn't LLC 6 higher than 4? As in 0 is most vdroop, 7 is least? I did set my SVID behavior in BIOS to "trained" and that may be what's giving me lower values. Those voltages are definitely a bit high for comfort though.


Yep that is correct mine goes up to llc 8. I've always used llc6/7 in the past so I guess that it is why I stuck to that value. My SVID was set to auto and it is now to "Trained" Yep much more palatable thankyou 










Perhaps ill also look at dialing in a little negative vf offset instead.

Am I missing something is ABT supposed to be a switch in the bios or is that automatic or z590 only?


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> Ah okay.
> 
> I noticed that but I got slightly worse (but extremely close) results with XMP I. Some things it sets slightly tighter tFAW, but looser tRRDS/L.
> 
> It's been a long past several days:
> View attachment 2486184
> 
> Where the AIDA64 columns go black is when I started noticing backwards performance and switched to Intel MLC, Metro Exodus in-game benchmark, and GeekBench. I don't really pay too much attention to GeekBench, but when all this was only netting 1-2 FPS, I stopped testing, just set XMP II, and called it a day.


WOW that is some comprehensive testing... Are you doing stability tests per setting too or is this just boot in load aida/game benchmarks? Whats your SA/IO's for all of that?

Oh I did disable DIM0 for channel A&B too as I'm on DIMM 1 for that not sure if that makes any difference but I don't see a reason to have them enabled if they aren't
populated.


----------



## PovGRide742

morph. said:


> WOW that is some comprehensive testing... Are you doing stability tests per setting too or is this just boot in load aida/game benchmarks? Whats your SA/IO's for all of that?
> 
> Oh I did disable DIM0 for channel A&B too as I'm on DIMM 1 for that not sure if that makes any difference but I don't see a reason to have them enabled if they aren't
> populated.


I run MemTest86 for one pass with almost every change. The first green row passed RAM Test at over 6400% coverage with 0 errors. The red row passed RAM Test at over 8000% coverage. But unfortunately performance was worse in AIDA64 and the Metro Exodus in-game benchmark. I'll be honest, they're set to Auto, and they are up there. I figured I'd dial them in when I finished manually tuning. But now you have me thinking, could the increased voltage from Auto be causing worse performance as a result of increased heat?

Hmm, interesting... I'll have to see if that makes any difference!


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> View attachment 2486159
> 
> 
> Think I'm just about ready to finish up my tuning and start actually playing some games at this point. Thanks @Arni90 for suggesting a cache multiplier increase.
> That plus Per Core usage clocking of:
> 
> 53
> 53
> 53
> 53
> 52
> 52
> 51
> 51
> 
> Has gotten me some really excellent performance gains across the board, not just Aida. Temps are low low 70s for all core AVX work loads, which is pretty great honestly. What drew me to Rocket Lake is the fact that initial reviews show a pretty substantial in FPS lows across the board - even compared to 5800/5900x. I only expect that tuning will expose even greater gains here. Don't really care for the highest averages - in my experience, the number one metric to look for for fluid, high refresh experiences is in the lows.
> 
> As a side note, how are some Aida runs showing higher than theoretical maximum bandwidth numbers? That's wild.



Wow that's pretty decent nearly making me consider looking at quick ram oc.

What are your sub timings? IA/SO voltages here?

Did you end up applying any avx offsets to avx2/512?


----------



## cstkl1

PovGRide742 said:


> Ah okay.
> 
> I noticed that but I got slightly worse (but extremely close) results with XMP I. Some things it sets slightly tighter tFAW, but looser tRRDS/L.
> 
> It's been a long past several days:
> View attachment 2486184
> 
> Where the AIDA64 columns go black is when I started noticing backwards performance and switched to Intel MLC, Metro Exodus in-game benchmark, and GeekBench. I don't really pay too much attention to GeekBench, but when all this was only netting 1-2 FPS, I stopped testing, just set XMP II, and called it a day.


thats trfc 2/4 formula 
theres no such formula. bdie jdec 2/4/8gb dimm density is not the standard for EVERY chip/config etc.


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> I run MemTest86 for one pass with almost every change. The first green row passed RAM Test at over 6400% coverage with 0 errors. The red row passed RAM Test at over 8000% coverage. But unfortunately performance was worse in AIDA64 and the Metro Exodus in-game benchmark. I'll be honest, they're set to Auto, and they are up there. I figured I'd dial them in when I finished manually tuning. But now you have me thinking, could the increased voltage from Auto be causing worse performance as a result of increased heat?
> 
> Hmm, interesting... I'll have to see if that makes any difference!


Hrmm not entirely sure there as it depends on the auto value....

@cstkl1 could probably explain better how SA/IO/MCIO could impact stability.


----------



## menko2

Wrong question


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Hrmm not entirely sure there as it depends on the auto value....
> 
> @cstkl1 could probably explain better how SA/IO/MEMSA could impact stability.


bdie sensitive to sa (overvolt errors)
djr sensitive to mcio (overvolt errors)


----------



## PovGRide742

cstkl1 said:


> thats trfc 2/4 formula
> theres no such formula. bdie jdec 2/4/8gb dimm density is not the standard for EVERY chip/config etc.


Yeah I tried the 180, 160, and 140ns conversions for 3733 and then did tRFC2=tRFC/1.346 and tRFC4=tRFC2/1.625.

Are you saying I shouldn't? Should I just set them to Auto? The UEFI doesn't tell me what they are when set to Auto unfortunately.



morph. said:


> Hrmm not entirely sure there as it depends on the auto value....
> 
> @cstkl1 could probably explain better how SA/IO/MEMSA could impact stability.


These are the Autos when manually setting 3733 and 1.5V DRAM. It's bad:









What are yours set to? I read 1.25V-1.45V should be fine up to 6000.


----------



## morph.

@PovGRide742 @bscool

Increased my uncore ratio to x46 saved another 0.5ns from x43. I'll probably dial this up a bit further once I set per core usage to 5.1 locked when all 8 cores are active.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

morph. said:


> Wow that's pretty decent nearly making me consider looking at quick ram oc.
> 
> What are your sub timings? IA/SO voltages here?
> 
> Did you end up applying any avx offsets to avx2/512?


VCCIO : 1.05
VCCIO Mem: 1.3
VCCSA: 1.3

As far as subs go, pretty standard fare based on my other experience clocking B-die. Turnaround timings are crucial for max bandwidth, those have to be set on a per system basis because they can change based on memory layout. I typically adjust my timings in groups and then run benchmarks to confirm a performance uplift, then start with the stability testing once I've gotten performance near where I want to. I disabled AVX512 since I likely won't need it and left AVX2 with no offset.


----------



## PovGRide742

morph. said:


> @PovGRide742 @bscool
> 
> Increased my uncore ratio to x46 saved another 0.5ns from x43. I'll probably dial this up a bit further once I set per core usage to 5.1 locked when all 8 cores are active.
> 
> View attachment 2486191


Nuts... you have like 10ns on me.


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> Nuts... you have like 10ns on me.


Hah this a bit strange especially if this is just mostly XMP1 profile doing the work with a few minor tweaks, if you have basically the same kit as me... is DRAM switching frequency available for you? I did put mine to 400kHz.

@cstkl1 what would you recommend this to be set at 500kHz (max) or somewhere in between like mine at 400kHz I believe the default is 300kHz.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> VCCIO : 1.05
> VCCIO Mem: 1.3
> VCCSA: 1.3
> 
> As far as subs go, pretty standard fare based on my other experience clocking B-die. Turnaround timings are crucial for max bandwidth, those have to be set on a per system basis because they can change based on memory layout. I typically adjust my timings in groups and then run benchmarks to confirm a performance uplift, then start with the stability testing once I've gotten performance near where I want to. I disabled AVX512 since I likely won't need it and left AVX2 with no offset.


Nice yeah I did that and spent a lot of time with it on my 10850k but I think I hit a wall with its IMC...

















However since time is precious for me at the moment with a 9month old... I figured I'd wait till the bio's iterations are a bit more mature before dedicating time to really dial stuff in as we know pretty much start from scratch when a new bios version gets released.

I think I'll just optimise some of the low hanging fruit for now. I might try to dial in 3733 but I think I tried that previously earlier but wouldn't post. I could probably reuse a lot of those secondary/tertiary timings though.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

I finally decided to wait for more BIOS releases before sinking a while lot more time into Mem OC. Not sure if BIOS updates will help, but my setup seems to just hate clocking my kit very high. Times pretty well though.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I finally decided to wait for more BIOS releases before sinking a while lot more time into Mem OC. Not sure if BIOS updates will help, but my setup seems to just hate clocking my kit very high. Times pretty well though.


Don't you have sub 40ns? in G1 mode with 3866? that's right up there soo far.


----------



## menko2

Prices in Spain from PcComponentes today:

11900k 650€
11900kf 600€ (out of stock now)
11700k 423€
11700kf 409€

I only buy from this shop (or amazon) because is the most reliable one in the case of any problem.

The only difference between 11700k and 11900k for us that will overclock is the binning right? The price jump for the 11900k is quite big. It should well worth the binning.


----------



## morph.

menko2 said:


> Prices in Spain from PcComponentes today:
> 
> 11900k 650€
> 11900kf 600€ (out of stock now)
> 11700k 423€
> 11700kf 409€
> 
> I only buy from this shop (or amazon) because is the most reliable one in the case of any problem.
> 
> The only difference between 11700k and 11900k for us that will overclock is the binning right? The price jump for the 11900k is quite big. It should well worth the binning.


ABT as well


----------



## Falkentyne

PovGRide742 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, and from what I read here, in Gear 1, the memory bus will read at the Data Rate of the memory, and being that DDR4 is Dual Data Rate, 1800 would be correct, and 900 would be 1:2. But anyway, here you go:
> View attachment 2486172
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just realized I didn't get a screenshot of 1:1. Anyway, I choose 100:133, 1:1, and DDR4-3600MHz. Here you go:
> View attachment 2486174
> 
> 
> 
> Found it. Did net me some gains but still not below 50. What's the actual risk of this overvolting the CPU like it mentions in the BIOS? Here are my results after disabling:
> View attachment 2486173
> 
> 
> 
> Did you disable Ring Down Bin as well (just so I'm comparing apples to apples)? And you posted two results I thought, one before PPD 0, TXP 4, and one after, to show what it netted you?
> 
> 
> Sooo, maybe, lol. Avast, Afterburner, and CAM. Balanced Plan Setting, haven't touched any power settings in BIOS. I'll try when I have some more time to try it without that stuff. Gear 1 requires 100:133 so you are correct, can't do 3600 in Gear 2 (if I'm not mistaken).
> 
> Edit: What I said didn't make sense. Gear 1 is limited to 100:133, Gear 2 can do either, so Gear 2 should be able to do 3600. Regardless... I'm in Gear 1.
> 
> I wasn't aware the timing config worked on Z590 yet... thank you!


Ok maybe I've just had too many people asking me for help today or maybe my brain is fried, but I just give up right now.
What I can tell you directly is that when I set "gear 1" at 3733 mhz on my system, my AIDA64 said "memory bus: 3733 mhz". It did NOT say "1866". I know this for a fact.
Yours says 1800 which implies gear 2 mode. I know because when I was having 3733 mhz DDR4 with all "Auto", my BIOS trained it as gear 2 and AIDA64 said 1866 mhz. I had to force it 1:1 and then it retried a few times and finally came up as 3733 Memory bus. Yes, with a 10900k installed in the same board, it will show 1/2 for memory because CML _only_ operates in one mode. Maybe this is some quirk with AIDA, I dont know. But at this point I'm going to step out and let someone else help you. I'm exhausted and drained from too many people picking my brain to bits.

This is my 4266. Gear 2. You can see the exact same thing. Gear 2, 1/2 memory bus. According to what you posted just now, that is "Gear 1", when it clearly is not gear 1.


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> Ok maybe I've just had too many people asking me for help today or maybe my brain is fried, but I just give up right now.
> What I can tell you directly is that when I set "gear 1" at 3733 mhz on my system, my AIDA64 said "memory bus: 3733 mhz". It did NOT say "1866". I know this for a fact.
> Yours says 1800 which implies gear 2 mode. I know because when I was having 3733 mhz DDR4 with all "Auto", my BIOS trained it as gear 2 and AIDA64 said 1866 mhz. I had to force it 1:1 and then it retried a few times and finally came up as 3733 Memory bus. Yes, with a 10900k installed in the same board, it will show 1/2 for memory because CML _only_ operates in one mode. Maybe this is some quirk with AIDA, I dont know. But at this point I'm going to step out and let someone else help you. I'm exhausted and drained from too many people picking my brain to bits.
> 
> This is my 4266. Gear 2. You can see the exact same thing. Gear 2, 1/2 memory bus. According to what you posted just now, that is "Gear 1", when it clearly is not gear 1.
> 
> View attachment 2486196


Interesting I've hard set mine to 1:1 in the bios. However memory bus says half in AIDA and we have the same version of aida:









However to my understanding, Mem Controller Freq = DRAM Freq via CPUZ means Gear 1 mode as per:


----------



## shamino1978

for the bdie DR stuck at 4266 people, roughly describe the symptom,
no boot or unstable?
tried with the simplest setting? defaults + 4533 (or add bclk with 4266 ratio)ratio, tCL 17-25-45, 1.45v save exit (dont "overset" the bios with a tonne of custom settings first)
a bunch of my old x299 BDie DRs would boot like that on my Apex at least.
once again i remind you to avoid using the 100 based ratios such as 4400 and so on as they are worse


----------



## HyperMatrix

morph. said:


> Interesting I've hard set mine to 1:1 in the bios. However memory bus says half in AIDA and we have the same version of aida:
> View attachment 2486209
> 
> 
> However to my understanding, Mem Controller Freq = DRAM Freq via CPUZ means Gear 1 mode as per:
> View attachment 2486210


Don’t want falkentyne yelling at me as he is far more knowledgeable than I am with regard to memory overclocking, but if you’re showing 1800MHz memory controller frequency in cpu-z then you’re in gear 1.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> Interesting I've hard set mine to 1:1 in the bios. However memory bus says half in AIDA and we have the same version of aida:
> View attachment 2486209
> 
> 
> However to my understanding, Mem Controller Freq = DRAM Freq via CPUZ means Gear 1 mode as per:
> View attachment 2486210


Yes that's indeed gear 1 mode.
I guess the aida stuff is aida doing aida things.


----------



## cstkl1

PovGRide742 said:


> Yeah I tried the 180, 160, and 140ns conversions for 3733 and then did tRFC2=tRFC/1.346 and tRFC4=tRFC2/1.625.
> 
> Are you saying I shouldn't? Should I just set them to Auto? The UEFI doesn't tell me what they are when set to Auto unfortunately.
> 
> 
> These are the Autos when manually setting 3733 and 1.5V DRAM. It's bad:
> View attachment 2486190
> 
> 
> What are yours set to? I read 1.25V-1.45V should be fine up to 6000.


example



350/260 = 1.34x....
260/160 = 1.625

auto is not using these.

messing with trfc2 sometimes help but its a pseudo thing that might be just helpful for that one training boot or helps stabilize the use of lower trfc. there no conclusive answer.


----------



## YaqY

shamino1978 said:


> for the bdie DR stuck at 4266 people, roughly describe the symptom,
> no boot or unstable?
> tried with the simplest setting? defaults + 4533 (or add bclk with 4266 ratio)ratio, tCL 17-25-45, 1.45v save exit (dont "overset" the bios with a tonne of custom settings first)
> a bunch of my old x299 BDie DRs would boot like that on my Apex at least.
> once again i remind you to avoid using the 100 based ratios such as 4400 and so on as they are worse


Mate on XII Apex with latest 2102 bios cannot post over 4266 on DR bdie with rocketlake. These same sticks posted to 4700 fine on cometlake, 4500 16-17 daily stable. Also have a friend on XIII Apex with dr bdie and cometlake who is having trouble stabilising even 4266 when the XIII Hero did 4400 stable fine.


----------



## morph.

Thought I'd quickly share my real bench scores from my 10850k to 11900k quick maths 8% score uplift. my observation says it is largely carried by the huge IPC gains for image editing. Haven't even dialled in my ram properly yet.

Currently oc'd based on core usage:

1 core = 54x
2 core = 54x
3 core = 53x
4 core = 53x
5 core = 53x
6 core = 53x
7 core = 52x
8 core = 52x


----------



## shamino1978

YaqY said:


> Mate on XII Apex with latest 2102 bios cannot post over 4266 on DR bdie with rocketlake. These same sticks posted to 4700 fine on cometlake, 4500 16-17 daily stable. Also have a friend on XIII Apex with dr bdie and cometlake who is having trouble stabilising even 4266 when the XIII Hero did 4400 stable fine.


ok, lets bring the focus back to you. how high does it boot with bclk+4266? do the test suggested in my statement 2


----------



## YaqY

shamino1978 said:


> ok, lets bring the focus back to you. how high does it boot with bclk+4266? do the test suggested in my statement 2


Haven't tested with bclk yet, was using 133 based ratios so 4533 etc and wouldn't post at all, seems like something is not right in the training. Dual rank rev B posted to 4533 max without bclk. I will see if he can test w bclk.


----------



## truth hurts

nice one on the 2102 bios thanks shamino just need that 1t and all will be forgiven intel 
any word on the microcode in next bios


----------



## truth hurts

not many results


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> VCCIO : 1.05
> VCCIO Mem: 1.3
> VCCSA: 1.3
> 
> As far as subs go, pretty standard fare based on my other experience clocking B-die. Turnaround timings are crucial for max bandwidth, those have to be set on a per system basis because they can change based on memory layout. I typically adjust my timings in groups and then run benchmarks to confirm a performance uplift, then start with the stability testing once I've gotten performance near where I want to. I disabled AVX512 since I likely won't need it and left AVX2 with no offset.



What did your Vcore end up being?

My core vid range is now healthy and as I expected but my Vcore has jumped up to 1.543v


----------



## cstkl1

11900K ES- SP76
M13A-0091 Mod (611)

STOCK - LL2
Klevv Bolt XR 3600 2x16gb DJR DR
5066C20 - 20-28-28-48-1N @1.6v
MC-IO/SA - 1.3/1.3v


----------



## truth hurts

speaking of avx heres my 512 results


----------



## IronAge

*@cstkl1 

Please let us know what Max Mem the M13A can do in Gear1 / 1:1 ?*


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> *@cstkl1
> 
> Please let us know what Max Mem the M13A can do in Gear1 / 1:1 ?*


I think he posted it already before and it was 3800 or 3866.

But the problem is the IMC and not the board, since I've seen few people doing 3866 MHz on a simple Strix board.
So CPU IMC it is.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> *@cstkl1
> 
> Please let us know what Max Mem the M13A can do in Gear1 / 1:1 ?*


APEX is not stable like Extreme. 3866C14 is not stable at all...


extreme i could boot 4k.. but i didnt persue getting it stable cause the mcio/sa was 1.6v

the only chance of booting 1:1 is with bdie..
DJR will bsod trying 3866


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> 11900K ES- SP76
> M13A-0091 Mod (611)
> 
> STOCK - LL2
> Klevv Bolt XR 3600 2x16gb DJR DR
> 5066C20 - 20-28-28-48-1N @1.6v
> MC-IO/SA - 1.3/1.3v


Is your ram model this one? 

*(2 x 16 GB) KLEVV Bolt X*

Model number: KD4AGU880-36A180U


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Is your ram model this one?
> 
> *(2 x 16 GB) KLEVV Bolt X*
> 
> Model number: KD4AGU880-36A180U


klevv bolt XR






KLEVV







www.klevv.com





KD4AGU880-36A180C


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> klevv bolt XR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KLEVV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.klevv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KD4AGU880-36A180C


Shame i can't find your kit here in Spain. Only the other model.


----------



## Lownage

What are the safe voltages for 24/7?

I have the following settings in bios (Apex XIII + 11900k):

CPU Core: 1.475V @ LLC4
VCCIO Mem: 1.35V
VCCSA: 1.15V
All Cores: 5.2GHz
Cache: 4.5GHz

HWInfo shows:

Max: 1.474V (idle)
Min: 1.305V (CB load)









Max temp CB:








Is this fine or can I go even higher with Vcore?


----------



## Satanello

cstkl1 said:


> klevv bolt XR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KLEVV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.klevv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KD4AGU880-36A180C


I've found and ordered the "X" version but on Klevv website the only difference between Bolt X and XR seem the heatsink (all other specification is the same), sane ICs (Hynix DJR dual rank) and same timings/voltage

Inviato dal mio LYA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## menko2

Satanello said:


> I've found and ordered the "X" version but on Klevv website the only difference between Bolt X and XR seem the heatsink (all other specification is the same), sane ICs (Hynix DJR dual rank) and same timings/voltage
> 
> Inviato dal mio LYA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk


It's 253€ for the X model.

Since it needs some voltage to get very high speed in gear 2 I'm afraid the heatsink is very important. The one you have seems much better.

Do you still recomend this kits in gear 2 than tight timings with gear 1 for gaming?

My g.skill samsung b.die is single rank but gets good tight timings around 3800mhz. Not sure if I should change them.
Dual rank samsung B-die they have the F4-4000C16D-32GTZR for 400€.


----------



## morph.

Lownage said:


> What are the safe voltages for 24/7?
> 
> I have the following settings in bios (Apex XIII + 11900k):
> 
> CPU Core: 1.475V @ LLC4
> VCCIO Mem: 1.35V
> VCCSA: 1.15V
> All Cores: 5.2GHz
> Cache: 4.5GHz
> 
> HWInfo shows:
> 
> Max: 1.474V (idle)
> Min: 1.305V (CB load)
> View attachment 2486236
> 
> 
> Max temp CB:
> View attachment 2486237
> 
> Is this fine or can I go even higher with Vcore?


Hah I've been trying to work this out as well...

Instead of taking the traditional oc approach of syncing all cores I took a core usage method:
1 core = 54x
2 core = 54x
3 core = 53x
4 core = 53x
5 core = 53x
6 core = 53x
7 core = 52x
8 core = 52x

My core vid ranges are within my expectations and comfort of 1.38v idle to 1.44vmax and 1.26v on load vmin.

However on idle now it looks like my "Vcore" has jumped up pretty high 1.543v on idle. Admittedly it's set on auto but feels uncomfortably high. Therefore I dropped the vcore down manually at the moment to 1.490v. With an uncore ratio of 45x and LLC 6. CPU SP85.

Did a 1hr OCCT stability test and it went well, temps weren't too bad as well.

However, vcore is sitting a bit higher than I'd like on idle (perhaps I'm old fashioned I don't know as there's nothing out there conclusive):










Guess the only way to see what gives is just dropping the vcore to the point where OCCT/Realbench/prime fails.


----------



## Satanello

menko2 said:


> It's 253€ for the X model.
> 
> Since it needs some voltage to get very high speed in gear 2 I'm afraid the heatsink is very important. The one you have seems much better.
> 
> Do you still recomend this kits in gear 2 than tight timings with gear 1 for gaming?
> 
> My g.skill samsung b.die is single rank but gets good tight timings around 3800mhz. Not sure if I should change them.
> Dual rank samsung B-die they have the F4-4000C16D-32GTZR for 400€.


I've tried to send you a pm but dunno if it arrived. I ordered my kit from Am.... Uk at a great price! 

Inviato dal mio LYA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

morph. said:


> What did your Vcore end up being?
> 
> My core vid range is now healthy and as I expected but my Vcore has jumped up to 1.543v





Lownage said:


> What are the safe voltages for 24/7?
> 
> I have the following settings in bios (Apex XIII + 11900k):
> 
> CPU Core: 1.475V @ LLC4
> VCCIO Mem: 1.35V
> VCCSA: 1.15V
> All Cores: 5.2GHz
> Cache: 4.5GHz
> 
> HWInfo shows:
> 
> Max: 1.474V (idle)
> Min: 1.305V (CB load)
> View attachment 2486236
> 
> 
> Max temp CB:
> View attachment 2486237
> 
> Is this fine or can I go even higher with Vcore?


I'm looking at ~1.32 - 1.34 depending on workload right now, not too bad. I'm likely going to start tuning for some per core max ratios with P95 soon, thinking that this chip will definitely do 5.4 at sane voltages on at least some of the cores at this point. My main focus is going to be stability without going too far above where I'm already at. @Lownage if that's stable I would say that's pretty nice, mine won't do an all core 5.2 down at just over 1.3v.


----------



## Lownage

I can run CB20 and play games, thats "stable" enough for me.

Yesterday I played Apex for 4 hours straight with zero crashes.

Per Core OC as follows:
2 Cores @ 5.4GHz
3-5 Cores @ 5.3GHz
6-8 cores @ 5.2GHz


----------



## PovGRide742

morph. said:


> Hah this a bit strange especially if this is just mostly XMP1 profile doing the work with a few minor tweaks, if you have basically the same kit as me... is DRAM switching frequency available for you? I did put mine to 400kHz.
> 
> @cstkl1 what would you recommend this to be set at 500kHz (max) or somewhere in between like mine at 400kHz I believe the default is 300kHz.


Not sure to be honest... will have to check!



Falkentyne said:


> Ok maybe I've just had too many people asking me for help today or maybe my brain is fried, but I just give up right now.
> What I can tell you directly is that when I set "gear 1" at 3733 mhz on my system, my AIDA64 said "memory bus: 3733 mhz". It did NOT say "1866". I know this for a fact.
> Yours says 1800 which implies gear 2 mode. I know because when I was having 3733 mhz DDR4 with all "Auto", my BIOS trained it as gear 2 and AIDA64 said 1866 mhz. I had to force it 1:1 and then it retried a few times and finally came up as 3733 Memory bus. Yes, with a 10900k installed in the same board, it will show 1/2 for memory because CML _only_ operates in one mode. Maybe this is some quirk with AIDA, I dont know. But at this point I'm going to step out and let someone else help you. I'm exhausted and drained from too many people picking my brain to bits.
> 
> This is my 4266. Gear 2. You can see the exact same thing. Gear 2, 1/2 memory bus. According to what you posted just now, that is "Gear 1", when it clearly is not gear 1.
> 
> View attachment 2486196





Falkentyne said:


> Yes that's indeed gear 1 mode.
> I guess the aida stuff is aida doing aida things.


"I guess the aida stuff is aida doing aida things."
I think this about summarizes it, lol.



cstkl1 said:


> example
> 
> 
> 
> 350/260 = 1.34x....
> 260/160 = 1.625
> 
> auto is not using these.
> 
> messing with trfc2 sometimes help but its a pseudo thing that might be just helpful for that one training boot or helps stabilize the use of lower trfc. there no conclusive answer.
> View attachment 2486212


I see. G.SKILL used those formulas when I reverse calculated the tRFC, tRFC2, and tRFC4 they programmed with XMP II, so I just reapplied it when I set tRFC to tRFC2 and tRFC4. Adjusting tRFC is where I saw the best gains. tRRDS, tRRDL, tFAW... that's where AIDA64 started going backwards with tightening.


----------



## Lownage

Just installed MW which bluescreened during shader initialization.
Dropped Vcore to 1.47V and changed LLC from 4 to 5 which gives me 1.34V load voltage.

Does MW trigger AVX? Currently using AVX offset 0.


----------



## menko2

Satanello said:


> I've tried to send you a pm but dunno if it arrived. I ordered my kit from Am.... Uk at a great price!
> 
> Inviato dal mio LYA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk


It didn't arrive.

Can you send it again please?


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> Just installed MW which bluescreened during shader initialization.
> Dropped Vcore to 1.47V and changed LLC from 4 to 5 which gives me 1.34V load voltage.
> 
> Does MW trigger AVX? Currently using AVX offset 0.


err bro 
theres no half stable stare for rkl

is ure 5.2 able to run prime95 small frt avx disabled??


----------



## Lownage

Prime non AVX for 15min @ 1,35V 5,2Ghz All Core


----------



## aznguyen316

Lownage said:


> Just installed MW which bluescreened during shader initialization.
> Dropped Vcore to 1.47V and changed LLC from 4 to 5 which gives me 1.34V load voltage.
> 
> Does MW trigger AVX? Currently using AVX offset 0.


I do believe MW uses AVX. If I have an offset when I play Warzone, it will run at the avx offset. Game is pretty CPU intensive too, so I find it to be a decent gaming CPU stability test for myself


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

@aznguyen316 did you end up opening that chip you got? Curious to see how yours compares.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> err bro
> theres no half stable stare for rkl
> 
> is ure 5.2 able to run prime95 small frt avx disabled??


What? Of course you can reach a semi-stable overclock on RKL.

Handbrake with AVX512 will easily break anything that's merely CBR23 stable


----------



## aznguyen316

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> @aznguyen316 did you end p opening that chip you got? Curious to see how yours compares.


Hey bud, I did last night, sorry I forgot to report back as I've been trying to do some testing. I think you took the best of the batch =) Batch: V110H184 From Newegg.

SP80, VF Curve isn't great for 5.1Ghz either. It is still better than the 11700K I had obviously, as it can do 5.0 and 5.1Ghz all core gaming, but needs more voltage than what I've seen others report here for 5.0 or 5.1Ghz. I haven't tuned it much at all, but it does handle 4000C17 DR Bdie 1.45V just like the 11700k/10900K have done. Don't have any high freq ram to test though.

Any thoughts on some clocks/voltages I can try to dial in for gaming? I did a quick and dirty 1.45V LLC4 5.1Ghz and played Horizon Zero Dawn for an hour without much issue but did not have time to test if I can go lower. Also tested 1.32V 5.0Ghz LLC4 and that ended up crashing. AVX Offset = 0


----------



## menko2

aznguyen316 said:


> Hey bud, I did last night, sorry I forgot to report back as I've been trying to do some testing. I think you took the best of the batch =) Batch: V110H184 From Newegg.
> 
> SP80, VF Curve isn't great for 5.1Ghz either. It is still better than the 11700K I had obviously, as it can do 5.0 and 5.1Ghz all core gaming, but needs more voltage than what I've seen others report here for 5.0 or 5.1Ghz. I haven't tuned it much at all, but it does handle 4000C17 DR Bdie 1.45V just like the 11700k/10900K have done. Don't have any high freq ram to test though.
> 
> Any thoughts on some clocks/voltages I can try to dial in for gaming? I did a quick and dirty 1.45V LLC4 5.1Ghz and played Horizon Zero Dawn for an hour without much issue but did not have time to test if I can go lower. Also tested 1.32V 5.0Ghz LLC4 and that ended up crashing. AVX Offset = 0
> 
> View attachment 2486251


How was the fps from Horizon comparing to 10th gen?


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

aznguyen316 said:


> Any thoughts on some clocks/voltages I can try to dial in for gaming? I did a quick and dirty 1.45V LLC4 5.1Ghz and played Horizon Zero Dawn for an hour without much issue but did not have time to test if I can go lower. Also tested 1.32V 5.0Ghz LLC4 and that ended up crashing. AVX Offset = 0
> 
> View attachment 2486251


Stability is a tricky thing. I've been able to run stress tests for days, then one random old game I like to play will give me problems like no tomorrow. At the end of the day what's most important is your own standards for stability. There are certain games that tend to show errors pretty quickly, whether it's core/cache/memory related, I've seen BFV in particular give lots of people problems after OC. If what you do with your system on a regular basis doesn't cause any issues at your voltage/frequency settings and you're okay with the resulting heat output and power draw, I'd say run with it until you do encounter issues.

Thanks for the update on the SP as well.


----------



## cstkl1

intel has binned the cpu vid pretty edge to prime95 non avx stable

just try vcore auto LL4 sync all core.

this was true in ES. not sure on retail


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> How was the fps from Horizon comparing to 10th gen?


Really similar haha, I did a bit of testing between 10900K and 11700K and last night some 11900k runs, at 1080p fullscreen, favor performance with a 3070. Average game FPS between all 3 CPU's and the same 3070 was 175-185FPS. CPU FPS was around 193-200 FPS average, depending on the OC I was testing. I bounced around AI OC, 5.0Ghz, 5.1Ghz, and some other settings, but they're all pretty much the same. I actually GAME at a much higher res, 5120x1440 32:9 Super UW, so the CPU doesn't even matter that much lol. my 10900K is SP88, I can do 5.1Ghz on it at a decent Voltage, but I really want to use 11th gen just because I got a great deal on a Z590 M13H and I want pcie 4.0 to slap in a 4.0 Drive in the future.

The 11700K really is good enough, but I like messing around with BIOS tuning and grabbed the 11900K. 10900k I really would like to keep but I can't get myself to ignore 11th gen. maybe because of this damn thread.



Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Stability is a tricky thing. I've been able to run stress tests for days, then one random old game I like to play will give me problems like no tomorrow. At the end of the day what's most important is your own standards for stability. There are certain games that tend to show errors pretty quickly, whether it's core/cache/memory related, I've seen BFV in particular give lots of people problems after OC. If what you do with your system on a regular basis doesn't cause any issues at your voltage/frequency settings and you're okay with the resulting heat output and power draw, I'd say run with it until you do encounter issues.
> 
> Thanks for the update on the SP as well.


I appreciate your reply. Yeah I understand. I was hoping to hit some of the similar voltages others were posting with Sp scores in the same range 76, 78, 85 etc. I think I just need to do more testing, but I also just want to get to gaming and stop with all the restarts into BIOS lol

When I use the default AI Overclock with cooler score 168 (360mm EK AIO) the Vcore shoots up to damn 1.55-1.6 just benching HZD, temps vary wildly like 65-85C and I did not like that at all. the 10900K AI OC did not shoot up Vcore like that with AI OC and auto voltages etc, so now I'm trying to do some auto testing on 11900K as I like seeing the voltage vary, but I might end up sticking with manual voltage set, LLC5 and an all core OC.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

cstkl1 said:


> intel has binned the cpu vid pretty edge to prime95 non avx stable
> 
> just try vcore auto LL4 sync all core.
> 
> this was true in ES. not sure on retail


That sounds interesting. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. That would make it pretty easy at that point, that's for sure.


----------



## morph.

Lownage said:


> Just installed MW which bluescreened during shader initialization.
> Dropped Vcore to 1.47V and changed LLC from 4 to 5 which gives me 1.34V load voltage.
> 
> Does MW trigger AVX? Currently using AVX offset 0.


Don't believe it uses any avx might need to increase your vf offset point to +.025v or something your LLC is pretty low though heh I generally run 6 or 7 with Asus boards.


----------



## morph.

aznguyen316 said:


> I actually GAME at a much higher res, 5120x1440 32:9 Super UW, so the CPU d





aznguyen316 said:


> Really similar haha, I did a bit of testing between 10900K and 11700K and last night some 11900k runs, at 1080p fullscreen, favor performance with a 3070. Average game FPS between all 3 CPU's and the same 3070 was 175-185FPS. CPU FPS was around 193-200 FPS average, depending on the OC I was testing. I bounced around AI OC, 5.0Ghz, 5.1Ghz, and some other settings, but they're all pretty much the same. I actually GAME at a much higher res, 5120x1440 32:9 Super UW, so the CPU doesn't even matter that much lol. my 10900K is SP88, I can do 5.1Ghz on it at a decent Voltage, but I really want to use 11th gen just because I got a great deal on a Z590 M13H and I want pcie 4.0 to slap in a 4.0 Drive in the future.
> 
> The 11700K really is good enough, but I like messing around with BIOS tuning and grabbed the 11900K. 10900k I really would like to keep but I can't get myself to ignore 11th gen. maybe because of this damn thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate your reply. Yeah I understand. I was hoping to hit some of the similar voltages others were posting with Sp scores in the same range 76, 78, 85 etc. I think I just need to do more testing, but I also just want to get to gaming and stop with all the restarts into BIOS lol
> 
> When I use the default AI Overclock with cooler score 168 (360mm EK AIO) the Vcore shoots up to damn 1.55-1.6 just benching HZD, temps vary wildly like 65-85C and I did not like that at all. the 10900K AI OC did not shoot up Vcore like that with AI OC and auto voltages etc, so now I'm trying to do some auto testing on 11900K as I like seeing the voltage vary, but I might end up sticking with manual voltage set, LLC5 and an all core OC.


Honestly overclocking the CPU these days with the various methods is very easy... I wouldn't touch AI Overclock its not the best imho.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> intel has binned the cpu vid pretty edge to prime95 non avx stable
> 
> just try vcore auto LL4 sync all core.
> 
> this was true in ES. not sure on retail


vcore on auto shot my vcore up to 1.543v or something like that. I've since dialled down vcore manually currently to around 1.48v and it's stable in the coming day's l'll dial that down a bit more till I hit a stability problem then bring it up a notch. However, I'm running an adaptive oc approach similar to what Scatter Bench was suggesting for best performance.


----------



## menko2

aznguyen316 said:


> Really similar haha, I did a bit of testing between 10900K and 11700K and last night some 11900k runs, at 1080p fullscreen, favor performance with a 3070. Average game FPS between all 3 CPU's and the same 3070 was 175-185FPS. CPU FPS was around 193-200 FPS average, depending on the OC I was testing. I bounced around AI OC, 5.0Ghz, 5.1Ghz, and some other settings, but they're all pretty much the same. I actually GAME at a much higher res, 5120x1440 32:9 Super UW, so the CPU doesn't even matter that much lol. my 10900K is SP88, I can do 5.1Ghz on it at a decent Voltage, but I really want to use 11th gen just because I got a great deal on a Z590 M13H and I want pcie 4.0 to slap in a 4.0 Drive in the future.
> 
> The 11700K really is good enough, but I like messing around with BIOS tuning and grabbed the 11900K. 10900k I really would like to keep but I can't get myself to ignore 11th gen. maybe because of this damn thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate your reply. Yeah I understand. I was hoping to hit some of the similar voltages others were posting with Sp scores in the same range 76, 78, 85 etc. I think I just need to do more testing, but I also just want to get to gaming and stop with all the restarts into BIOS lol
> 
> When I use the default AI Overclock with cooler score 168 (360mm EK AIO) the Vcore shoots up to damn 1.55-1.6 just benching HZD, temps vary wildly like 65-85C and I did not like that at all. the 10900K AI OC did not shoot up Vcore like that with AI OC and auto voltages etc, so now I'm trying to do some auto testing on 11900K as I like seeing the voltage vary, but I might end up sticking with manual voltage set, LLC5 and an all core OC.


I'm having a hard time because I'm in a similar position as you. It's hard to get of the 10900k i have cause it's a SP 92 but I can still return and get the 11900k.

I play in 4k so the min fps matters more than average fps as I'm gpu bound.

You 11900k what SP is? Did you check the mins fps of the 10900k and the 11900k in horizon?


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> klevv bolt XR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KLEVV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.klevv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KD4AGU880-36A180C


@cstkl1 : As others commented, these unfortunately don't seem to be available in Europe. Any suggestions/experience which 2x8GB kit from the usual suspects (G.Skill, Corsair, Crucial) would clock & time this nicely with RKL?

Thanks.
r.


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> I'm having a hard time because I'm in a similar position as you. It's hard to get of the 10900k i have cause it's a SP 92 but I can still return and get the 11900k.
> 
> I play in 4k so the min fps matters more than average fps as I'm gpu bound.
> 
> You 11900k what SP is? Did you check the mins fps of the 10900k and the 11900k in horizon?


11900K SP = 80.
Yes I did jot down my 95% and 99% for 10900k and 11900k and they're very similar, same settings for the 3070.
10900k all core 5.1Ghz: CPU avg, 95%, 99% was 201, 157, 134
11900K all core 5.0Ghz was 202, 154, 134

Oh if you meant just GAME FPS: 10900K 332 max 67 min; avg fps 182
11900K 5.0Ghz 332 max, 60 min; avg fps 186

_edit_

I also did some very basic warzone test, I did not record any data, but I felt like warzone was a little smoother? Really no data to support it myself.

I think this video for HZD and Warzone are what my experiences are. HZD having just barely better average FPS with 11900K, but lower min and warzone having better .1% and 1% lows with 11900k.


----------



## Lownage

This is as good as it gets:









Set all cores to 53 and limited core by core to 52 to find the "bad" ones.

5 Cores @ 5.3GHz and 3 @ 5.2Ghz
1.475V @ Bios @ LLC5 ~ 1,35V under load (CB20)

Should I be worried about 1,617V VID and 1.475V standby voltage? 
no load = no amps = no excessive wear on the CPU I guess?!


----------



## cstkl1

hand shaky. 

but this is stock cpu with 3866c13


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> @cstkl1 : As others commented, these unfortunately don't seem to be available in Europe. Any suggestions/experience which 2x8GB kit from the usual suspects (G.Skill, Corsair, Crucial) would clock & time this nicely with RKL?
> 
> Thanks.
> r.


kingston hyperX predator 3600c17 2x16gb
these did 4800-5kc19


----------



## CENS

Guys,

I just installed a 11900k in my Z490 Apex, switched to the second bios, loaded bios 2102 via the port in the back, bios flashback or whatever it's called, which seemed to have worked fine.

However when I try to boot it seems to to go through the cycle fine up until a point where it's almost done and then turns off the system and then does the same thing over and over.

Am I missing something?

thank you for any input!


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> kingston hyperX predator 3600c17 2x16gb
> these did 4800-5kc19


Thank you. Is this one the model number? 

HX436C17PB3AK2/32


----------



## Kana Chan

By any chance you could test 150 bclk / 2400 MT/s = 3600 MT/s + a cpu-z pic? Just curious


----------



## menko2

aznguyen316 said:


> 11900K SP = 80.
> Yes I did jot down my 95% and 99% for 10900k and 11900k and they're very similar, same settings for the 3070.
> 10900k all core 5.1Ghz: CPU avg, 95%, 99% was 201, 157, 134
> 11900K all core 5.0Ghz was 202, 154, 134
> 
> Oh if you meant just GAME FPS: 10900K 332 max 67 min; avg fps 182
> 11900K 5.0Ghz 332 max, 60 min; avg fps 186
> 
> _edit_
> 
> I also did some very basic warzone test, I did not record any data, but I felt like warzone was a little smoother? Really no data to support it myself.
> 
> I think this video for HZD and Warzone are what my experiences are. HZD having just barely better average FPS with 11900K, but lower min and warzone having better .1% and 1% lows with 11900k.


Ok sounds very similar then. The benefit in the future for PCIe4 gpu is there for RKL.

Did you have the rams tweaked for both CPUs?


----------



## roooo

shamino1978 said:


> for the bdie DR stuck at 4266 people, roughly describe the symptom,
> no boot or unstable?
> tried with the simplest setting? defaults + 4533 (or add bclk with 4266 ratio)ratio, tCL 17-25-45, 1.45v save exit (dont "overset" the bios with a tonne of custom settings first)
> a bunch of my old x299 BDie DRs would boot like that on my Apex at least.
> once again i remind you to avoid using the 100 based ratios such as 4400 and so on as they are worse


Your efforts are much appreciated! Though mine are SR, I'm still stuck at 4266 (or 4309 with a little BLCK adjustment). My sticks are 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR (B-Die) on Hero XIII with 11900K. I tried with even looser timings than those you gave, but anything beyond 4266..4309 would not POST and eventually return me to BIOS. Tried with higher and lower VDIMM/IO/SA as well. Temperature is not an issue.

Thanks!


----------



## Falkentyne

shamino1978 said:


> for the bdie DR stuck at 4266 people, roughly describe the symptom,
> no boot or unstable?
> tried with the simplest setting? defaults + 4533 (or add bclk with 4266 ratio)ratio, tCL 17-25-45, 1.45v save exit (dont "overset" the bios with a tonne of custom settings first)
> a bunch of my old x299 BDie DRs would boot like that on my Apex at least.
> once again i remind you to avoid using the 100 based ratios such as 4400 and so on as they are worse


2x16 GB Feb 2020 date code, Gskill 3200 CL14 B-die.

I can get into windows at 4533 17/17/39 with yeet vdimm (1.60v) but massively unstable (windows even reports WHEA corrected error after loading), but can run AIDA benchmark.
BIOS memtest86 reports errors.

1.50v will crash in BIOS.
With 10900k installed, 4533 17/17/39 @ 1.50v will load windows but fail TM5.

IO_Mem / SA =1.4v does not help.
I did not try 17/18/39 or 19/19/etc, don't think that's worth it over 4266 tight timings, so I gave up.


----------



## kylethepenguin

cstkl1 said:


> d 3090 under 350





jomama22 said:


> Intel® Core™ Processors Technical Resources
> 
> 
> Intel® Core™ processors technical resources list includes applications notes, datasheets, packing information, product briefs, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.intel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you are looking for. Volume 1 and volume 2 what you want to look for.
> 
> Just gives voltage specs and such for different rails. How much that will help is up to you, but just give their spec maximums.


Thanks for providing that bro.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> hand shaky.
> 
> but this is stock cpu with 3866c13
> View attachment 2486267


Show me how to do this, because z590 Apex is coming to me tomorrow


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> Ok sounds very similar then. The benefit in the future for PCIe4 gpu is there for RKL.
> 
> Did you have the rams tweaked for both CPUs?


yeah, for both CPU's I had the ram set at the best I could get these sticks to on both systems, which is 4000C17-19-39 and relatively tightened sub timings. 2x16GB Bdie that are originally (3200C15-15-35 XMP). I didn't bother with 1:1 as it was very picky on booting much of any settings outside of XMP.


----------



## menko2

aznguyen316 said:


> yeah, for both CPU's I had the ram set at the best I could get these sticks to on both systems, which is 4000C17-19-39 and relatively tightened sub timings. 2x16GB Bdie that are originally (3200C15-15-35 XMP). I didn't bother with 1:1 as it was very picky on booting much of any settings outside of XMP.


At 4000mhz you were running the 11900k in gear 2.

You will get better results running in gear 1 at around 3733mhz with tighter timings with the 11900k.

If you have a little time give it a go because it should be a good improvement.


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> At 4000mhz you were running the 11900k in gear 2.
> 
> You will get better results running in gear 1 at around 3733mhz with tighter timings with the 11900k.
> 
> If you have a little time give it a go because it should be a good improvement.


Yes sorry, after posting I thought that might read a little confusing, but I thought maybe it was assumed I knew 4000 could not run at 1:1.

I meant I tested a few timings at 1:1, such as 3600C16 which booted but it resulted in karhu error. If I just changed my 4000 timings to 3733 frequency with 1:1 and let SA and IO voltage auto, PC would not ever post. 11700K and 11900K didn't seem to like 3733 1:1 for me (could be some sub-menu settings of mine I guess), so I just said **** it because I didn't want to spend any additional time tuning ram when I had the 4000 speed karhu validated/stable on both CML and RKL and I rather spend the time trying to dial in my CPU overclock to see if the CPU upgrade was worth it. I figured if I am stable with 4000c17-19-39, just changing the frequency to 3733 should be safe sub timings too? But that did not like 1:1. 1.45V vdimm, 1.22 sa/io for gear 2, but for gear 1 I tried auto on both as I wasn't sure what voltage to really set here.

if you have any suggested timings to test given my stock XMP timings (2x16 3200C15-15-35 a lower bin of Bdie dual rank), and voltages, I would be happy to try with some hand holding - aka some settings to input. Otherwise, 1:1 has been a bit frustrating (RAM overall on RKL) for me. I did a quick test a Micron E kit 2x16GB 3600 speeds that I validated on ryzen platform, with similar timings and RKL didn't like it 1:1 so I said screw it too haha.


----------



## Satanello

menko2 said:


> It didn't arrive.
> 
> Can you send it again please?


I can't send you any pm! When i click on your nickname I have the private mesaage option disabled.
Anyway, search on amazon uk : Klevv Bolt x 32gb kit 3600 Mhz. 



Inviato dal mio LYA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## GanjaSMK

aznguyen316 said:


> Yes sorry, after posting I thought that might read a little confusing, but I thought maybe it was assumed I knew 4000 could not run at 1:1.
> 
> I meant I tested a few timings at 1:1, such as 3600C16 which booted but it resulted in karhu error. If I just changed my 4000 timings to 3733 frequency with 1:1 and let SA and IO voltage auto, PC would not ever post. 11700K and 11900K didn't seem to like 3733 1:1 for me (could be some sub-menu settings of mine I guess), so I just said **** it because I didn't want to spend any additional time tuning ram when I had the 4000 speed karhu validated/stable on both CML and RKL and I rather spend the time trying to dial in my CPU overclock to see if the CPU upgrade was worth it. I figured if I am stable with 4000c17-19-39, just changing the frequency to 3733 should be safe sub timings too? But that did not like 1:1. 1.45V vdimm, 1.22 sa/io for gear 2, but for gear 1 I tried auto on both as I wasn't sure what voltage to really set here.
> 
> if you have any suggested timings to test given my stock XMP timings (2x16 3200C15-15-35 a lower bin of Bdie dual rank), and voltages, I would be happy to try with some hand holding - aka some settings to input. Otherwise, 1:1 has been a bit frustrating (RAM overall on RKL) for me. I did a quick test a Micron E kit 2x16GB 3600 speeds that I validated on ryzen platform, with similar timings and RKL didn't like it 1:1 so I said screw it too haha.


I dunno about 11 series; but I'm on 10 gen with 32gb DR SS b-die. MSI z490 

3900 @ 1.5v 15-15-15-42-683. Not anywhere near ultra fast but pretty good pairing with my cpu. These are the G.Skill Ripjaws 5 3200/C14 kit. 

For ref / wiw ~


----------



## aznguyen316

GanjaSMK said:


> I dunno about 11 series; but I'm on 10 gen with 32gb DR SS b-die. MSI z490
> 
> 3900 @ 1.5v 15-15-15-42-683. Not anywhere near ultra fast but pretty good pairing with my cpu. These are the G.Skill Ripjaws 5 3200/C14 kit.
> 
> For ref / wiw ~


Thanks. I actually would like something that would work Gear 1 to test 11900K with my RAM kit, so 3600-3733 frequency or so would be a good start, but just some input on voltages SA/IO on Z590 plus primary timings and maybe other subtimings. Otherwise, it's no big deal. I just figured I'd ask so I can do some gear 1 testing, otherwise, I'm sticking with my current settings as I'm tired of powering down for failure to POST haha


----------



## Falkentyne

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks. I actually would like something that would work Gear 1 to test 11900K with my RAM kit, so 3600-3733 frequency or so would be a good start, but just some input on voltages SA/IO on Z590 plus primary timings and maybe other subtimings. Otherwise, it's no big deal. I just figured I'd ask so I can do some gear 1 testing, otherwise, I'm sticking with my current settings as I'm tired of powering down for failure to POST haha


Power down? Just set your case "Reset" button as "Safe Boot" and off you go.
What board do you have?


----------



## morph.

Lownage said:


> This is as good as it gets:
> View attachment 2486263
> 
> 
> Set all cores to 53 and limited core by core to 52 to find the "bad" ones.
> 
> 5 Cores @ 5.3GHz and 3 @ 5.2Ghz
> 1.475V @ Bios @ LLC5 ~ 1,35V under load (CB20)
> 
> Should I be worried about 1,617V VID and 1.475V standby voltage?
> no load = no amps = no excessive wear on the CPU I guess?!


Your voltages make me feel uncomfortable... 1.475v isn't horrible though but it really depends on your vfcurve/cpu sp etc

Have you tried to put your 2 favoured cores to 54x? Think i changed my svid behaviour to "Trained" which helped lower the voltages that align to the vf curve


----------



## CENS

5k 14-13-1T geek3 M12A check

@Falkentyne I modded the bios with the new microcode from the get go, as you suggested, so Idk if that helped on the old board.


----------



## CENS

Decent chip


----------



## morph.

aznguyen316 said:


> Yes sorry, after posting I thought that might read a little confusing, but I thought maybe it was assumed I knew 4000 could not run at 1:1.
> 
> I meant I tested a few timings at 1:1, such as 3600C16 which booted but it resulted in karhu error. If I just changed my 4000 timings to 3733 frequency with 1:1 and let SA and IO voltage auto, PC would not ever post. 11700K and 11900K didn't seem to like 3733 1:1 for me (could be some sub-menu settings of mine I guess), so I just said **** it because I didn't want to spend any additional time tuning ram when I had the 4000 speed karhu validated/stable on both CML and RKL and I rather spend the time trying to dial in my CPU overclock to see if the CPU upgrade was worth it. I figured if I am stable with 4000c17-19-39, just changing the frequency to 3733 should be safe sub timings too? But that did not like 1:1. 1.45V vdimm, 1.22 sa/io for gear 2, but for gear 1 I tried auto on both as I wasn't sure what voltage to really set here.
> 
> if you have any suggested timings to test given my stock XMP timings (2x16 3200C15-15-35 a lower bin of Bdie dual rank), and voltages, I would be happy to try with some hand holding - aka some settings to input. Otherwise, 1:1 has been a bit frustrating (RAM overall on RKL) for me. I did a quick test a Micron E kit 2x16GB 3600 speeds that I validated on ryzen platform, with similar timings and RKL didn't like it 1:1 so I said screw it too haha.


the sweet spot for gear 1 would be like 3733 c14 or there abouts could be asking a bit too much from your sample if it's a 3200c15.


----------



## aznguyen316

Falkentyne said:


> Power down? Just set your case "Reset" button as "Safe Boot" and off you go.
> What board do you have?


O11D doesn’t have reset button. Normally I would do this with my Fractal Design S to a clear CMOS or something. 

I have a M13H that’s in a case and not easily accessible for flex key either for where the case is placed. Fortunately the M13H does a great job of rebooting in safe boot after a failed post and power down. It just gets annoying after so many times.


----------



## Falkentyne

aznguyen316 said:


> O11D doesn’t have reset button. Normally I would do this with my Fractal Design S.
> 
> I have a M13H that’s in a case and not easily accessible for flex key either for where the case is placed.


This is an EXTREMELY easy problem to mod.
Just buy a pushbutton. ANY pushbutton. Even an old Arcade style sanwa / cherry microswitch+pushbutton.
Grab a male to female jumper cable (or any with female on the other end). This should work. I tested these just right now on a Z390's case jumper block pin and they (the female end) fit like a glove on the pins.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EV70C78/



Wire them up on the other side to your pushbutton. Strip/crimp/solder, whatever. Hook the two female ends to the two active pins on the reset jumper (usually the two left pins).

Set "Reset button" to "Safe Boot".

Profit.

Please like me.


----------



## aznguyen316

morph. said:


> the sweet spot for gear 1 would be like 3733 c14 or there abouts could be asking a bit too much from your sample if it's a 3200c15.


Yeah and 3733 with much looser primary doesn’t seem to want to POST on either a 11700k or 11900k with my dimms

I got a deal on some g.skill 4x8 3600 16-19-19-39

f4-3600c16q-32gtznc

Might just wait to test at 1:1 but these timings are childs play compared to most on here lol


----------



## GanjaSMK

aznguyen316 said:


> Yeah and 3733 with much looser primary doesn’t seem to want to POST on either a 11700k or 11900k with my dimms
> 
> I got a deal on some g.skill 4x8 3600 16-19-19-39
> 
> f4-3600c16q-32gtznc
> 
> Might just wait to test at 1:1 but these timings are childs play compared to most on here lol


You're going to find that you can get reasonably fast and responsive bandwidth without diving too far into the RAM overclocking rabbit hole. There are for sure significant gains but understanding sub and tertiary timings and how they affect performance - it's a steep curve for most. And lots of testing. And lots of time. Buildzoid's rule of thumb for generic speed increase based on CL and bandwidth are helpful for getting even mid-range better than basic RAM overclocks. 3200/14 = 228.5 vs 3600/14 = 257.1 vs 4000/15 = 266.6. Then you get a great boost if you're able to get identical or lower primaries. 

FWIW~


----------



## aznguyen316

GanjaSMK said:


> You're going to find that you can get reasonably fast and responsive bandwidth without diving too far into the RAM overclocking rabbit hole. There are for sure significant gains but understanding sub and tertiary timings and how they affect performance - it's a steep curve for most. And lots of testing. And lots of time. Buildzoid's rule of thumb for generic speed increase based on CL and bandwidth are helpful for getting even mid-range better than basic RAM overclocks. 3200/14 = 228.5 vs 3600/14 = 257.1 vs 4000/15 = 266.6. Then you get a great boost if you're able to get identical or lower primaries.
> 
> FWIW~


Yeah definitely feel you on that, I've spent a lot of hours on it from ryzen to 10th gen and now 11th, but not nearly as educated as many here. I've read the github memory oc page so many times as well. Just to get this 3200C15 bdie kit to 4000C17 for me, was a nice feat in itself as that took a lot of time and testing for stability. That is probably why I'm just happy with where it's at now. I'll probably try tuning 3600 again when I am in the mood, but Horizon Zero Dawn is calling me and I am stable on my CPU OC and RAM OC that I'm just happy to play some games right now =D


----------



## morph.

aznguyen316 said:


> Yeah definitely feel you on that, I've spent a lot of hours on it from ryzen to 10th gen and now 11th, but not nearly as educated as many here. I've read the github memory oc page so many times as well. Just to get this 3200C15 bdie kit to 4000C17 for me, was a nice feat in itself as that took a lot of time and testing for stability. That is probably why I'm just happy with where it's at now. I'll probably try tuning 3600 again when I am in the mood, but Horizon Zero Dawn is calling me and I am stable on my CPU OC and RAM OC that I'm just happy to play some games right now =D


For hand holding this is a good start: integralfx/MemTestHelper


----------



## HyperMatrix

Opened a second CPU from the same batch# X102K522 from Vietnam. First one was SP 85. This one is SP 88. Got another one from the same batch left. Will open and test depending on how this one works out.


----------



## IronAge

aznguyen316 said:


> Yeah and 3733 with much looser primary doesn’t seem to want to POST on either a 11700k or 11900k with my dimms


it is not the only the DIMMs, it is either IMC or mobo or both. M8 of mine changed the Bios of his M12E to 2102.

Before updating he was not able to get his 11900K above 3733, after he flashed Bios 2102 he is running benchmarks with 3933 1:1.

Not the Best 11900K, it has a prediction of like ~SP72.

On my M13H there is no way getting above 3733, i have like 10 SR B-Die Kits.Some HyperX, some Team Group 8Pack, some G.Skill TridentZ.

About to put my second 11700K on the M12F and trying above 3733 1:1 with Bios 2102.


----------



## menko2

HyperMatrix said:


> Opened a second CPU from the same batch# X102K522 from Vietnam. First one was SP 85. This one is SP 88. Got another one from the same batch left. Will open and test depending on how this one works out.





Falkentyne said:


> This is an EXTREMELY easy problem to mod.
> Just buy a pushbutton. ANY pushbutton. Even an old Arcade style sanwa / cherry microswitch+pushbutton.
> Grab a male to female jumper cable (or any with female on the other end). This should work. I tested these just right now on a Z390's case jumper block pin and they (the female end) fit like a glove on the pins.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EV70C78/
> 
> 
> 
> Wire them up on the other side to your pushbutton. Strip/crimp/solder, whatever. Hook the two female ends to the two active pins on the reset jumper (usually the two left pins).
> 
> Set "Reset button" to "Safe Boot".
> 
> Profit.
> 
> Please like me.


Does dual rank b-die have same uplift in performance in 11900k as the new 11900k?

My kits now is single rank 2x8gb B-die 3600mhz [email protected] 10 layer PCB.

This is the kits I'm looking dual rank:

*F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB*
Trident Z RGB
DDR4-4266MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.50V
32GB (2x16GB).

Board: Maximus Hero XIII


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

menko2 said:


> Does dual rank b-die have same uplift in performance in 11900k as the new 11900k?
> 
> My kits now is single rank 2x8gb B-die 3600mhz [email protected] 10 layer PCB.
> 
> This is the kits I'm looking dual rank:
> 
> *F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB*
> Trident Z RGB
> DDR4-4266MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.50V
> 32GB (2x16GB).
> 
> Board: Maximus Hero XIII


I have the Ripjaws V version of that kit, it does 3866 @ gear 1 for me at pretty nice timings. Reads as an 8 layer PCB. Possibly the TridentZ RGB has a different PCB though? Can't get 4266 @ gear 2 stable, and 4533 simply won't post. Hopefully a new BIOS will help that, but I'm on the Strix-I so that may just be as good as it gets.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I have the Ripjaws V version of that kit, it does 3866 @ gear 1 for me at pretty nice timings. Reads as an 8 layer PCB. Possibly the TridentZ RGB has a different PCB though? Can't get 4266 @ gear 2 stable, and 4533 simply won't post. Hopefully a new BIOS will help that, but I'm on the Strix-I so that may just be as good as it gets.


@Dead_Bot_42 @cstkl1 perhaps you guys can chime in... mmm those are decent gear 1 results for now with bios 2102.. My kits F4-3600C14D-32GTRS 14-15-15-35 1.45v 2x16 bdie dr in theory our kits are binned fairly similar. From what I gather bdie dr is pretty hard to get much out of with the current asus bios iterations. I honestly wonder how MSI/GB are going with pushing G1 with DR bdie haven't heard much here about it.

With gear 1 I managed to get it to boot in with xmp1 but bumping the frequency up to 3733 but haven't gotten 3866 to post... (haven't bothered loosening timings or whatever to try though perhaps xmp 2 might work but yet to try that as well.

CIOM @ 1.33v
Dram V @ 1.50v
SA @ 1.31v

Any tips? Not sure if I'm willing to dive too deep with manual timings for now as when more mature bios's get released this whole process has to start agian.

I'd honestly be pretty content if I can get it up to 3866 while keeping the primary timings with gear 1.


----------



## menko2

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I have the Ripjaws V version of that kit, it does 3866 @ gear 1 for me at pretty nice timings. Reads as an 8 layer PCB. Possibly the TridentZ RGB has a different PCB though? Can't get 4266 @ gear 2 stable, and 4533 simply won't post. Hopefully a new BIOS will help that, but I'm on the Strix-I so that may just be as good as it gets.


Thank you.

Dual rank has the same benefits in rocket lake as comet lake? My kit is single rank.


----------



## HyperMatrix

I opened up another cpu from the same batch # as my 85 SP and 88 SP. this is 73 SP. The 73 SP chip is actually the most capable overclocker. But it also has massive leakage so it burns red hot. I pulled over 300W with it. 5300MHz with 1.5V at LL5. The SP85 chip had the absolute lowest leakage and stayed ridiculously cool (low to mid 60s) but it had one core that couldn’t handle 5200MHz and gave WHEA errors. The SP 88 chip would be in the 70s in 5300MHz non-AVX workloads but was giving watchdog error/hang when running Cinebench. It didn’t happen with intel burn test which uses AVX 1. But cinebench R23 with AVX2 triggers a hang immediately. Interestingly, the SP73 chip with the same settings tool 15 seconds before it froze on cinebench r23, whereas the SP88 chip did so within a second of launching the benchmark.

Unfortunately the SP85 chip which would have been my favorite has that one bad core that prevents me from being able to run at least 5200MHz all core clock. So I’m going to pop the SP 88 in there and see if I can push some more voltage its way to stabilize it.

I am impressed by the SP 73 chip though. If you have enough cooling, it can do the 5200MHz than the SP 85 chip couldn’t.


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> it is not the only the DIMMs, it is either IMC or mobo or both. M8 of mine changed the Bios of his M12E to 2102.
> 
> Before updating he was not able to get his 11900K above 3733, after he flashed Bios 2102 he is running benchmarks with 3933 1:1.
> 
> Not the Best 11900K, it has a prediction of like ~SP72.
> 
> On my M13H there is no way getting above 3733, i have like 10 SR B-Die Kits.Some HyperX, some Team Group 8Pack, some G.Skill TridentZ.
> 
> About to put my second 11700K on the M12F and trying above 3733 1:1 with Bios 2102.





Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I have the Ripjaws V version of that kit, it does 3866 @ gear 1 for me at pretty nice timings. Reads as an 8 layer PCB. Possibly the TridentZ RGB has a different PCB though? Can't get 4266 @ gear 2 stable, and 4533 simply won't post. Hopefully a new BIOS will help that, but I'm on the Strix-I so that may just be as good as it gets.


@shamino1978


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> @Dead_Bot_42 @cstkl1 perhaps you guys can chime in... mmm those are decent gear 1 results for now with bios 2102.. My kits F4-3600C14D-32GTRS 14-15-15-35 1.45v 2x16 bdie dr in theory our kits are binned fairly similar. From what I gather bdie dr is pretty hard to get much out of with the current asus bios iterations. I honestly wonder how MSI/GB are going with pushing G1 with DR bdie haven't heard much here about it.
> 
> With gear 1 I managed to get it to boot in with xmp1 but bumping the frequency up to 3733 but haven't gotten 3866 to post... (haven't bothered loosening timings or whatever to try though perhaps xmp 2 might work but yet to try that as well.
> 
> CIOM @ 1.33v
> Dram V @ 1.50v
> SA @ 1.31v
> 
> Any tips? Not sure if I'm willing to dive too deep with manual timings for now as when more mature bios's get released this whole process has to start agian.
> 
> I'd honestly be pretty content if I can get it up to 3866 while keeping the primary timings with gear 1.


msi doing way better 4800 
but the bandwidth/latency still bad afaik

giga 4533


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Dual rank has the same benefits in rocket lake as comet lake? My kit is single rank.


of course higher bandwidth.

try using the new hci memtest gui launcher
runmemtest pro 5.0

y can see the avg cover speeds.. 
5066c20 DR is 84 MB/s. 
the higher read/write/copy of dual rank at work here
3866c14 DR for example is 6x MB/s


----------



## Nizzen

CENS said:


> View attachment 2486342
> 
> 
> Decent chip


What is the voltage under load?
My SP87 does 5.3 all core with 1.4v set in bios LLC8. 1.41v load in windows according to hwinfo.

Pretty much spot on with the V/F curve


----------



## Lownage

morph. said:


> Your voltages make me feel uncomfortable... 1.475v isn't horrible though but it really depends on your vfcurve/cpu sp etc
> 
> Have you tried to put your 2 favoured cores to 54x? Think i changed my svid behaviour to "Trained" which helped lower the voltages that align to the vf curve


Can you show me your bios settings? Have no experience with vfcurve 
I set it up like this



























edit: Set VID to "Training", its much lower now:


----------



## encrypted11

Any GSAT 4800 30 mins or higher on dual rank memory so far? 
Trying out my Bolt XRs after Bolt Xs


----------



## HyperMatrix

I broke one of the pins on my CPU block while swapping in new CPUs tonight. Took my idle temps from 24C to 35C. Ordered a new optimus block to replace it. For now, running it at 5GHz and using standard settings and memory timings/etc etc. Just 5GHz all core with 4000MHz CL15 memory with T2 and no other memory settings adjusted. I installed a new 2TB PCIe 4.0 drive and was going to set up my previous 2 PCIe 3.0 NVMe drives in Raid 0. So I figured it'd be a great opportunity to do a quick benchmark comparison of 1x PCIe 3.0 vs 2x PCIe 3.0 in Raid-0 vs 1x PCIe 4.0 drive as I was making the change. I mentioned CPU clock and memory timings above as they would have some impact on the scores here. Anyway, here are the results for anyone wondering what kind of setup to go with considering the limited PCIe 4.0 lanes on the 11900K.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> of course higher bandwidth.
> 
> try using the new hci memtest gui launcher
> runmemtest pro 5.0
> 
> y can see the avg cover speeds..
> 5066c20 DR is 84 MB/s.
> the higher read/write/copy of dual rank at work here
> 3866c14 DR for example is 6x MB/s


Man, those speeds are crazy. 5066c20- 84mb/s! Well done.
3866c14 DR doesn't sound bad either.

How does turn up gear 1 vs gear 2 at those speeds and latency for gaming?


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

morph. said:


> @Dead_Bot_42 @cstkl1 perhaps you guys can chime in... mmm those are decent gear 1 results for now with bios 2102.. My kits F4-3600C14D-32GTRS 14-15-15-35 1.45v 2x16 bdie dr in theory our kits are binned fairly similar. From what I gather bdie dr is pretty hard to get much out of with the current asus bios iterations. I honestly wonder how MSI/GB are going with pushing G1 with DR bdie haven't heard much here about it.
> 
> With gear 1 I managed to get it to boot in with xmp1 but bumping the frequency up to 3733 but haven't gotten 3866 to post... (haven't bothered loosening timings or whatever to try though perhaps xmp 2 might work but yet to try that as well.
> 
> CIOM @ 1.33v
> Dram V @ 1.50v
> SA @ 1.31v
> 
> Any tips? Not sure if I'm willing to dive too deep with manual timings for now as when more mature bios's get released this whole process has to start agian.
> 
> I'd honestly be pretty content if I can get it up to 3866 while keeping the primary timings with gear 1.


When I'm trying for harder speed bins, especially on DR B die, sometimes I just have to yeet the VDIMM just to get it to post. If you can throw a fan in front of your memory you might want to give that a try? I'm not sure mine will post @ 1.5 VDIMM, I set it at 1.525 and it not only posts, but passes every test I've tried. Cooling isn't an issue as it's part of my loop. What are your temperatures? Ambient/DIMM/CPU etc. Warm IMCs can give issues as well. Also keep in mind that trying for really low TRCD can be limiting to max frequency.


----------



## morph.

Lownage said:


> Can you show me your bios settings? Have no experience with vfcurve
> I set it up like this
> View attachment 2486362
> View attachment 2486363
> View attachment 2486364
> View attachment 2486365
> 
> 
> 
> edit: Set VID to "Training", its much lower now:
> View attachment 2486366


Yup trained svid behaviour is what seemed to make the vid voltages adhere to the vf curve.

What is your LLC again?

Also just keep an eye on your vcore mine shot up a bit after my oc so i had to manually put it back down etc.


----------



## morph.

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> When I'm trying for harder speed bins, especially on DR B die, sometimes I just have to yeet the VDIMM just to get it to post. If you can throw a fan in front of your memory you might want to give that a try? I'm not sure mine will post @ 1.5 VDIMM, I set it at 1.525 and it not only posts, but passes every test I've tried. Cooling isn't an issue as it's part of my loop. What are your temperatures? Ambient/DIMM/CPU etc. Warm IMCs can give issues as well. Also keep in mind that trying for really low TRCD can be limiting to max frequency.


Ahh so you went past 1.5v guess I can try that later haha I'm adding a 3rd 360 radiator in soon and will be changing my top fans to be intake so that should keep the ram cool so guess I'll try that then! Honestly my ram doesn't get too hot with gaming loads usually sit around 40-45 etc only when testing stability/benching might warm up a bit more.


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen and basically anybody with bdie DR with rkl + asus mobo.. suspect its a apex thing

bios with ucode 3c
1:1, 100:133 , 3866
1.5-1.55vdimm
sa/mcio 1.4
14-15-28
twcl 12,
all trdwr 12
disable read voltage centering 1d

btw it wont be super hci stable but booting should be easy.

want to see how many ppl need that algo disabled to boot easy.


----------



## morph.

Mmm went up to 1.535v dram & 1.34v mcio out of curiosity it wouldn’t boot haha


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Mmm went up to 1.535v dram & 1.34v mcio out of curiosity it wouldn’t boot haha


1.55, mcio/sa 1.4 ( max 1.45)
important thing with this and disabling that algo

extreme doesnt require. so suspect hero and strix-e as well doesnt need to. i think its a apex problem


----------



## shamino1978

cstkl1 i think you need this:



















Courtesy of Tom Kuz of Taiwan


----------



## cstkl1

shamino1978 said:


> cstkl1 i think you need this:
> View attachment 2486399
> 
> 
> View attachment 2486400
> 
> 
> 
> Courtesy of Tom Kuz of Taiwan


damn.

but err we just need this guy...









🤭😱🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen and basically anybody with bdie DR with rkl + asus mobo.. suspect its a apex thing
> 
> bios with ucode 3c
> 1:1, 100:133 , 3866
> 1.5-1.55vdimm
> sa/mcio 1.4
> 14-15-28
> twcl 12,
> all trdwr 12
> disable read voltage centering 1d
> 
> btw it wont be super hci stable but booting should be easy.
> 
> want to see how many ppl need that algo disabled to boot easy.


I could already boot and run 3866 MHz, but that's on a Maximus XIII Hero.
Disabling the algorithm didn't make it possible to boot 4000 MHz gear 1 either.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen and basically anybody with bdie DR with rkl + asus mobo.. suspect its a apex thing
> 
> bios with ucode 3c
> 1:1, 100:133 , 3866
> 1.5-1.55vdimm
> sa/mcio 1.4
> 14-15-28
> twcl 12,
> all trdwr 12
> disable read voltage centering 1d
> 
> btw it wont be super hci stable but booting should be easy.
> 
> want to see how many ppl need that algo disabled to boot easy.


Some things I noticed.
On Extreme:
These settings and 15/15/32 helped me boot "eventually"
Memtest86 wasn't stable.
The HIGHER Mem IO was, the more unstable memtest86 was.
Had to reduce memio to 1.35v to make memtest86 test 6 and 7 pass.
Then windows loaded and prime95 large FFT no avx passed too.
Then I simply rebooted and it 55'd. Since I guess memio was too low. But it needs low memio to not get memtest errors. Then kept failing training.

Time to give up.


----------



## YaqY

Falkentyne said:


> Some things I noticed.
> On Extreme:
> These settings and 15/15/32 helped me boot "eventually"
> Memtest86 wasn't stable.
> The HIGHER Mem IO was, the more unstable memtest86 was.
> Had to reduce memio to 1.35v to make memtest86 test 6 and 7 pass.
> Then windows loaded and prime95 large FFT no avx passed too.
> Then I simply rebooted and it 55'd. Since I guess memio was too low. But it needs low memio to not get memtest errors. Then kept failing training.
> 
> Time to give up.


Can you not set boot mem io higher then set mem io lower so that it boots windows with a lower value but trains with higher?


----------



## cstkl1

apex is apex.


----------



## YaqY

@cstkl1 Do you have the turbovcore for xiii apex i saw you mention it, need a copy much appreciated.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

So playing with V/f offsets (I figured it out lol) I was able to get very nice performance at lower than stock voltages.

I used Prime95 to weed out the worst cores, then set: 54 - 54 - 53 - 53 - 53 - 52 - 52 - 52

Using max per core ratios to keep the worst cores from crashing the system.

I used CB R23 to check voltages while running single/multicore loads vs stock.

Stock Single Core - 1.412

Tuned Single Core - 1.385

Stock Multi Core - 1.376

Tuned Multi Core - 1.341

So overall very impressed, I'll attach some benchmark runs as well.

Ended up using "Best case scenario" SVID behavior if anyone was wondering.

FireStrike results: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI (3dmark.com) 

Timespy results: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI (3dmark.com) 

Cinebench scores attached as screenshots


----------



## Encode_GR

Any recommendations to get better performance for *daily long term use* for this kit (HX436C17PB4AK4/32 ) ?
I saw a few things in previous posts, recommended by @cstkl1 but can't decide if it's better to go Gear 2 due to latency, and also don't want to push things too far, since i will be using this system most likely for the next 5 years.

Right now i'm at 3600 @1.40v ,Gear 1 with tighter timings than stock xmp.
Also, VCCIO Mem = 1.20v, VSSCA = 1.20v. No errors after days of testing.


----------



## kylethepenguin

fray_bentos said:


> V/F should be available under "advanced offset" under voltage settings and then click the new option that appears. Is that missing?


It is there where you can set voltage / frequency. Only multiplier is auto populated though. Voltage has to be manually set per each multiplier. It's my understanding that on the Asus Maximus boards, the v/f chart auto populates based on the MOBO algorithms CPU quality determination.


----------



## roooo

Encode_GR said:


> Any recommendations to get better performance for *daily long term use* for this kit (HX436C17PB4AK4/32 ) ?
> I saw a few things in previous posts, recommended by @cstkl1 but can't decide if it's better to go Gear 2 due to latency, and also don't want to push things too far, since i will be using this system most likely for the next 5 years.
> 
> Right now i'm at 3600 @1.40v ,Gear 1 with tighter timings than stock xmp.
> Also, VCCIO Mem = 1.20v, VSSCA = 1.20v. No errors after days of testing.
> 
> View attachment 2486445
> View attachment 2486446
> View attachment 2486447


I don't know the kit, but these timings don't appear particularly tight ;-) Try to tighten further, there could be significant gain. Try if you can go 15-17-17-25 CR1. Further you could try tRFC ~300, tFAW~16 and enable RTL training, which gave me an extra 3ns of latency gain. Have fun!


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2486428
> 
> 
> apex is apex.


Nice... the Essencore line suggests these are still the Bolt XR? So sad we can't get them in Europe... :-(


----------



## roooo

Encode_GR said:


> I saw a few things in previous posts, recommended by @cstkl1 but can't decide if it's better to go Gear 2 due to latency, and also don't want to push things too far, since i will be using this system most likely for the next 5 years.


I'm no pro but it appears to me that if you can't get the kit to clock significantly north of 4500 with decent timings, then you better stick with trying to max out Gear 1. That is, 3600/3733 or so with tight timings.


----------



## OCmember

Seen a ST R20 score of 650 with an 11900K.. what are you guys n gals getting?


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

OCmember said:


> Seen a ST R20 score of 650 with an 11900K.. what are you guys n gals getting?


I posted a screenshot above, 661 SC.


----------



## Nizzen

OCmember said:


> Seen a ST R20 score of 650 with an 11900K.. what are you guys n gals getting?


St r20 is boring. Takes to long time. Playing games instead


----------



## Dancop

Bought 1 chip retail. 
5325mhz at 1.359v and Max 75 degrees in r15. 
SP 99


----------



## bscool

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> So playing with V/f offsets (I figured it out lol) I was able to get very nice performance at lower than stock voltages.
> 
> I used Prime95 to weed out the worst cores, then set: 54 - 54 - 53 - 53 - 53 - 52 - 52 - 52
> 
> Using max per core ratios to keep the worst cores from crashing the system.
> 
> I used CB R23 to check voltages while running single/multicore loads vs stock.
> 
> Stock Single Core - 1.412
> 
> Tuned Single Core - 1.385
> 
> Stock Multi Core - 1.376
> 
> Tuned Multi Core - 1.341
> 
> So overall very impressed, I'll attach some benchmark runs as well.
> 
> Ended up using "Best case scenario" SVID behavior if anyone was wondering.
> 
> FireStrike results: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI (3dmark.com)
> 
> Timespy results: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI (3dmark.com)
> 
> Cinebench scores attached as screenshots


It doesnt seem like you really gain much from setting those higher cores. Not that I can tell anyway. I have run benches that get those scores or higher running straight 52. but it could be ram and cach differences too I suppose.









I scored 14 695 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





I didn't screen shot the Cinebench r20 but it was something like 6550 area at 52/46


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Well, as far as 3DMark, sure. Those are all core work loads. I haven't seen many Single thread CB scores that high though. I was also happy to see I had the top scores for 11900k + 6900 XT... Out of five lol.


----------



## bscool

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Well, as far as 3DMark, sure. Those are all core work loads. I haven't seen many Single thread CB scores that high though. I was also happy to see I had the top scores for 11900k + 6900 XT... Out of five lol.


Oh yeah I totally overlooked that. Not sure what I ran in single thread.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Got a 11900K today. SP89 (same as my 10900K). Quick run passed CB R15 5.3GHz / 4.4GHz 1.475v LLC5 1.341v underload Max temp: 73C. Is it good?


----------



## fray_bentos

kylethepenguin said:


> It is there where you can set voltage / frequency. Only multiplier is auto populated though. Voltage has to be manually set per each multiplier. It's my understanding that on the Asus Maximus boards, the v/f chart auto populates based on the MOBO algorithms CPU quality determination.


In contrast to the ASUS boards, you don't get to see the default V/F numbers in the MSI, but you can set offsets for each pre-set multiplier. You may possibly be able to see the default V/F curve in Intel XTU if you have clocks and voltage set on auto. However, beware that XTU will override BIOS settings, so if you do look at that, it's best to uninstall it so it doesn't mess with subsequent overclocking attempts!


----------



## aznguyen316

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> So playing with V/f offsets (I figured it out lol) I was able to get very nice performance at lower than stock voltages.
> 
> I used Prime95 to weed out the worst cores, then set: 54 - 54 - 53 - 53 - 53 - 52 - 52 - 52
> 
> Using max per core ratios to keep the worst cores from crashing the system.
> 
> I used CB R23 to check voltages while running single/multicore loads vs stock.
> 
> Stock Single Core - 1.412
> 
> Tuned Single Core - 1.385
> 
> Stock Multi Core - 1.376
> 
> Tuned Multi Core - 1.341
> 
> So overall very impressed, I'll attach some benchmark runs as well.
> 
> Ended up using "Best case scenario" SVID behavior if anyone was wondering.
> 
> FireStrike results: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI (3dmark.com)
> 
> Timespy results: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI (3dmark.com)
> 
> Cinebench scores attached as screenshots


Thanks for sharing your findings. I'm liking the per core + specific core ratios as they are really nice for dialing in the OC as best as it can go. I've been messing around some today regarding that. My silicon isn't as good as yours, but I do have some questions on how you have your BIOS settings. Are you going through each VF Point 1-8 and adding a negative offset? 
For the BIOS to utilize the VF curve, do you need to set the Core Voltage as "Auto" or "Adaptive"? My understanding is Adaptive will only use the input voltage for above 53x ratio or the VF point 8 set? What is your VF Point 8 voltage point and offset voltage for 54x to be stable on your chip? I think my default VF8 is 1.478 or something.

On setting your specific core ratios, have you determined your bad cores via which cores get highest overall temps or how else are you determining bad cores? I know on 10900K it was a easy to find out poor cores via WHEA errors associated with core ID to see which cores dropped out on prime95 first, but RKL seems to BSOD rather than having threads crash? I haven't tested so this is just an assumption based on how my system seems to crash with BSOD: machine check or watchdog error (or PCIE to wifi crashes out before BSOD). 

Thank you for any input as I try to dial in my clocks. I'm mostly sticking with 50x all core, such as maybe 54, 53, 52, 51, 50, 50, 50, 50 but I'm still trying to make my system fully stable as randomly either a specific SATA port seems to not connect on boot or my on-board wifi driver doesn't load, so I'm guessing that's something to do with the overclock... often a reboot fixes it but these are something my 10900K did not experience on the same motherboard (Asus Maximus Hero XIII).


----------



## Talon2016

SoldierRBT said:


> Got a 11900K today. SP89 (same as my 10900K). Quick run passed CB R15 5.3GHz / 4.4GHz 1.475v LLC5 1.341v underload Max temp: 73C. Is it good?
> 
> View attachment 2486468
> 
> 
> View attachment 2486469


Yes looks great! Where did you get yours from?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Talon2016 said:


> Yes looks great! Where did you get yours from?


Pre-ordered it on Best Buy. They shipped it yesterday and arrived today.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings. I'm liking the per core + specific core ratios as they are really nice for dialing in the OC as best as it can go. I've been messing around some today regarding that. My silicon isn't as good as yours, but I do have some questions on how you have your BIOS settings. Are you going through each VF Point 1-8 and adding a negative offset?
> For the BIOS to utilize the VF curve, do you need to set the Core Voltage as "Auto" or "Adaptive"? My understanding is Adaptive will only use the input voltage for above 53x ratio or the VF point 8 set? What is your VF Point 8 voltage point and offset voltage for 54x to be stable on your chip? I think my default VF8 is 1.478 or something.
> 
> On setting your specific core ratios, have you determined your bad cores via which cores get highest overall temps or how else are you determining bad cores? I know on 10900K it was a easy to find out poor cores via WHEA errors associated with core ID to see which cores dropped out on prime95 first, but RKL seems to BSOD rather than having threads crash? I haven't tested so this is just an assumption based on how my system seems to crash with BSOD: machine check or watchdog error (or PCIE to wifi crashes out before BSOD).
> 
> Thank you for any input as I try to dial in my clocks. I'm mostly sticking with 50x all core, such as maybe 54, 53, 52, 51, 50, 50, 50, 50 but I'm still trying to make my system fully stable as randomly either a specific SATA port seems to not connect on boot or my on-board wifi driver doesn't load, so I'm guessing that's something to do with the overclock... often a reboot fixes it but these are something my 10900K did not experience on the same motherboard (Asus Maximus Hero XIII).


Okay, so for core "binning" I actually used Prime95 AVX @ 1.35 vcore. I set all cores to cap out at 50, then individually tested each one starting at 54. Most instacrashed @ 53 and 54, so those were easy. The worst cores would BSOD, but the not too awful ones could go for longer, then throw out a rounding error at which point P95 would stop that worker. If it ran for one hour I considered it good enough for my purposes - ended up as 51 - 51 - 50 - 51 - 52 - 50 - 50 - 51. 52 was marked as a preferred core, and then I set the cores that took longer to fail at 52 to 53 max ratios. So it ended up like this: 53 - 53 - 52 - 53 - 54 - 52 - 52 - 53. I'm using "Auto" voltage without offsets and "Best case scenario" for SVID behavior. I only set V/f point offsets for the top two bins - 52 and 54. I actually needed a positive offset for 52 because it would run all the way down at 1.27, which would pass R20 but not R23. I also set the highest C state to C3 because I don't feel like dealing with weird stability issues at medium transient load or idle.


----------



## Bilco

Anyone know what the street date will be for the Max 13 Apex/Extreme in the USA? I've been checking here and there every day but haven't seen or heard anything...


----------



## cstkl1

Encode_GR said:


> Any recommendations to get better performance for *daily long term use* for this kit (HX436C17PB4AK4/32 ) ?
> I saw a few things in previous posts, recommended by @cstkl1 but can't decide if it's better to go Gear 2 due to latency, and also don't want to push things too far, since i will be using this system most likely for the next 5 years.
> 
> Right now i'm at 3600 @1.40v ,Gear 1 with tighter timings than stock xmp.
> Also, VCCIO Mem = 1.20v, VSSCA = 1.20v. No errors after days of testing.
> 
> View attachment 2486445
> View attachment 2486446
> View attachment 2486447


try this


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> 1.55, mcio/sa 1.4 ( max 1.45)
> important thing with this and disabling that algo
> 
> extreme doesnt require. so suspect hero and strix-e as well doesnt need to. i think its a apex problem





Arni90 said:


> I could already boot and run 3866 MHz, but that's on a Maximus XIII Hero.
> Disabling the algorithm didn't make it possible to boot 4000 MHz gear 1 either.


Sorry gents disable which algorithm?


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> It doesnt seem like you really gain much from setting those higher cores. Not that I can tell anyway. I have run benches that get those scores or higher running straight 52. but it could be ram and cach differences too I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 14 695 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't screen shot the Cinebench r20 but it was something like 6550 area at 52/46


@Nizzen , @SoldierRBT , @Esenel and the rest
time to teach u guys a bug that exclusive to rkl. funny nobody noticed this yet. i saw this on the first week back in december. 

try disabling both avx in bios and rerun that timespy physics.. should be 15k+ plus

bios avx enabled
prime95 avx disabled
each fft per 6 min u get like normal 3-6 runs of the same fft

bios avx disable
prime95 avx option grey out
each fft per 6 min .. it goes hyperspeed doing 1 same fft run under 1 min.. so 10-14 same fft in that 6 min.

its like a "fast path" kind of thing

some games u get better fps.


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Sorry gents disable which algorithm?


read voltage centering 1D


----------



## mpbrown2020

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2486428
> 
> 
> apex is apex.


What is that "RunMemtestPro" software? Google not really turning up anything. I have HCI MemtestPro 7.0, but it doesn't look like that.


----------



## cstkl1

mpbrown2020 said:


> What is that "RunMemtestPro" software? Google not really turning up anything. I have HCI MemtestPro 7.0, but it doesn't look like that.











[下載] RunMemtestPro 記憶體測試軟體 - BenchLife.info


下載 RunMemtestPro 4.0 進行記憶體穩定度測試吧！ 記憶體時脈與參數調整後，想知道是 […]




benchlife.info





latest version which can read from cpuz & aida etc






旧帖归档 - Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验


旧帖归档Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验 ,Chiphell - 分享与交流用户体验




www.chiphell.com





u need a chinese mobile no to download from baidu. or ask guys here to help out.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> read voltage centering 1D


yeah disabled that still 3866 no boot sigh 

FYI @PovGRide742

Oh well, I've dropped trcd/trp down a little further latency is decent at 41.8ns all things considered... Could probably get more bandwidth if I adjust with the tertiary and secondary timings.... Only thing I changed was PPD 0, TXP 4, TREFI 55535 & tRFC 280










Could also try to get tcl to 13 and tRAS down to 28 maybe...

View attachment 2486493


@cstkl1 @OLDFATSHEEP I honestly wonder where the sweet spot is with latency vs bandwidth for gaming...


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> yeah disabled that still 3866 no boot sigh
> 
> Oh well, I've dropped tried/trp down a little further latency is decent at 41.8ns all things considered... Could probably get more bandwidth if I adjust with the tertiary and secondary timings....
> 
> View attachment 2486491
> 
> 
> Could also try to get tRAS down to 28 maybe...
> 
> I've noticed that my ATC isn't reporting values properly like the tRAS/TWTR_L/TWTR_S.... what am i missing here?
> 
> View attachment 2486493


rkl _dd/_dr works differently

intel spec-sheet lowest min is 4
setting 0 can result the board actually setting a high value

rkl _dd is important. both SR/DR kits
_dr has not much impact so generally just = _dd or 4.. whatever passes hci etc.









ASRock Z590 OC Formula Overclocking Thread


Even though it's not in retail stores yet, I wanted to get the thread started for the new ASRock Z590 OC Formula board!! This is the first mainstream 'OC Formula' board since the legendary Z170M OC Formula, so I figured we need a place to talk about it and share information. I also wanted to...




www.overclock.net





link to asrock timing config on the thread


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> rkl _dd/_dr works differently
> 
> intel spec-sheet lowest min is 4
> setting 0 can result the board actually setting a high value
> 
> rkl _dd is important. both SR/DR kits
> _dr has not much impact so generally just = _dd or 4.. whatever passes hci etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASRock Z590 OC Formula Overclocking Thread
> 
> 
> Even though it's not in retail stores yet, I wanted to get the thread started for the new ASRock Z590 OC Formula board!! This is the first mainstream 'OC Formula' board since the legendary Z170M OC Formula, so I figured we need a place to talk about it and share information. I also wanted to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> link to asrock timing config on the thread


Oh, I just thought DD is only used when populating all DIMM slots. As mines just a kit of 2 interesting


----------



## mpbrown2020

Anyone here with a download link to recent version of "RunMemtestPro 5.0.2860" ????

I already purchased the HCI Memtest Pro 7.0. Thanks


----------



## cstkl1

@morph. 

theres alot of things ppl seem to misunderstand rkl on bandwidth latency

have u noticed. 
cml and before u need a good boot, backgroundless apps to get aida consistent??

but rkl u dont really (except for latency gets affected but not read, write, copy)
the variation is not as big as cml


----------



## cstkl1

currenlt the biggest flaw i noticed but cant confirm unless amd gpu guys check

rkl is badly affected on games where rebar doesnt work. 
cml maybe 3-8%.. but rkl can be 25-30%..
f1 2020


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

cstkl1 said:


> currenlt the biggest flaw i noticed but cant confirm unless amd gpu guys check
> 
> rkl is badly affected on games where rebar doesnt work.
> cml maybe 3-8%.. but rkl can be 25-30%..
> f1 2020


What games are you looking at specifically? Just F1 2020? Are there other titles? Seems like I'm one of few who owns an AMD GPU, haven't done much testing with it.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> @morph.
> 
> theres alot of things ppl seem to misunderstand rkl on bandwidth latency
> 
> have u noticed.
> cml and before u need a good boot, backgroundless apps to get aida consistent??
> 
> but rkl u dont really (except for latency gets affected but not read, write, copy)
> the variation is not as big as cml


Yeah, something I've noticed too with CML I had to close most apps to get the best latency result with Aida.
RKL seems to behave better and I'm just closing down a few core apps and the results seem pretty consistent.

Haha, I actually haven't enabled rebar yet I've heard some positive and negatives about it.

Admittedly I've only been playing outriders since I got my RKL but will usually circle back to warzone at some point.

perfect looking much better thanks @cstkl1 re atc version.


----------



## cstkl1

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> What games are you looking at specifically? Just F1 2020? Are there other titles? Seems like I'm one of few who owns an AMD GPU, haven't done much testing with it.


test any of the 17games nvidia whitelisted as rebar bro

most of the games except acV afaik requires dlss for nvidia rebar to work. so try the games that has dlss see the negative impact. .. is it same on amd or not?


----------



## Bilco

I didn't see any improvement setting txp from 13 to 4.

Also setting PPD to zero and tcke from 7 to 2 didnt seem to do anything.

z490 MSI godlike here =[


----------



## morph.

Bilco said:


> I didn't see any improvement setting txp from 13 to 4.
> 
> Also setting PPD to zero and tcke from 7 to 2 didnt seem to do anything.
> 
> z490 MSI godlike here =[


should usually see 2-3ns latency drop.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

cstkl1 said:


> test any of the 17games nvidia whitelisted as rebar bro
> 
> most of the games except acV afaik requires dlss for nvidia rebar to work. so try the games that has dlss see the negative impact. .. is it same on amd or not?


I'll take a look and see which games I currently own and get back to you on it. Interesting comparison to be made regardless.


----------



## morph.

wont boot with CL 13 didnt try higher voltages but managed to tRAS 28









Heh not stable oh well time to loosen it


----------



## roooo

SoldierRBT said:


> Pre-ordered it on Best Buy. They shipped it yesterday and arrived today.


Please post the batch, it can be found on the package, should contain sth like V... or X.... Thanks.


----------



## SoldierRBT

roooo said:


> Please post the batch, it can be found on the package, should contain sth like V... or X.... Thanks.


X104L512


----------



## Nizzen

morph. said:


> should usually see 2-3ns latency drop.


There was no improvement on my 11900k when adjusting txp and ppd on my z490 apex. There is improvement with my 10900k. Maybe it's not working on z490 apex or/and rocketlake. 

Will test txp/ppd with z590 Apex in the weekend


----------



## Lownage

morph. said:


> should usually see 2-3ns latency drop.












Worked for me, went from 48ns to 46ns. Thanks mate.


----------



## Nizzen

Lownage said:


> View attachment 2486519
> 
> 
> Worked for me, went from 48ns to 46ns. Thanks mate.


So maybe only working on z590?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> So maybe only working on z590?


no effect. 
u can check memtweakit. 
it didnt change


----------



## morph.

meh, quick and nasty gear 1 oc on 3733 dr bdie / stable. Good enough for now I guess...:










Maybe ill explore gear 2 limits for dr bdie but 4233 isn't enough to tempt me yet maybe next bios versions....


----------



## cstkl1

no reply from anybody on

da 1d voltage centering disable for 3866 bdie DR.. except that formula dude

guess nobody cares lol on it getting hci stable on apex z490/z590 bioses with ucode 3c

bdie DR up to 3866 1:1 is not using the same tuning as 1:2 btw on apex if you must know

diff skews. odt read etc.


----------



## truth hurts

I would like to try that 3c for z490 apex but I looked on that winraid forum but could not find it , could someone post a modded 2102 save us having to figure it out , I don't have dual rank but would like to see if I could hit 1:1 4000 or 1t


----------



## cstkl1

truth hurts said:


> I would like to try that 3c for z490 apex but I looked on that winraid forum but could not find it , could someone post a modded 2102 save us having to figure it out , I don't have dual rank but would like to see if I could hit 1:1 4000 or 1t


the ucode was just a identifier so its similar to bios 07xx on z590 apex

0611 equivalent bios which i think uses ucode 36 or something like dat.. 
the one before that was ucode 24

that bios both 1d enabled better and doesnt require disabled for boot but the tuning on 1:1 up to 3866 is still same as 07xx 

3x onwards has atb . 3c seems to have higher copy

3600 was doable for 1T.


----------



## Encode_GR

cstkl1 said:


> try this


Amazing, thank you for that !
May i ask tho, since i'm inexperienced, is DRAM 1.6v considered safe for daily long term usage ?


----------



## truth hurts

cstkl1 said:


> the ucode was just a identifier so its similar to bios 07xx on z590 apex
> 
> 0611 equivalent bios which i think uses ucode 36 or something like dat..
> the one before that was ucode 24
> 
> that bios both 1d enabled better and doesnt require disabled for boot but the tuning on 1:1 up to 3866 is still same as 07xx
> 
> 3x onwards has atb . 3c seems to have higher copy
> 
> 3600 was doable for 1T.


ok i am still on ucode 24 , have you seen the adoredtv website review he showed two different aidas and said it was the microcode making the difference in latency when the settings werent even close 6400 cl 16 16 16 36 ring 41 compared to 6933 16 18 18 38 ring 28 lol


----------



## cstkl1

truth hurts said:


> ok i am still on ucode 24 , have you seen the adoredtv website review he showed two different aidas and said it was the microcode making the difference in latency when the settings werent even close 6400 cl 16 16 16 36 ring 41 compared to 6933 16 18 18 38 ring 28 lol
> View attachment 2486536


youtubers and their farking assumptions

it was @shamino1978 tweaking

ucode gains biggest i have seen was 3c which was copy 1k more and some latency 0.5ns less

every other bandwidth/latency gain/redux was by ASUS faes hardwork and ingenuity. their r&d engineering and optimem iii tech.. its not marketing gimmick....
just look at how close asus dimm slots are compared to say a giga..


----------



## cstkl1

Encode_GR said:


> Amazing, thank you for that !
> May i ask tho, since i'm inexperienced, is DRAM 1.6v considered safe for daily long term usage ?


dram heat affects timings and stability. diff chipset.. sr/dr .. two dimm vs 4dimm.. so if 
can keep it cool. y not bro?? 

safedisk 5600c20 tight hci is 1.8v 24/7 temps 20-30c


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

cstkl1 said:


> no reply from anybody on
> 
> da 1d voltage centering disable for 3866 bdie DR.. except that formula dude
> 
> guess nobody cares lol on it getting hci stable on apex z490/z590 bioses with ucode 3c
> 
> bdie DR up to 3866 1:1 is not using the same tuning as 1:2 btw on apex if you must know
> 
> diff skews. odt read etc.


Mine works without disabling it, maybe if I enable it it won't work? Pretty sure it is set to Auto right now, which might be default disabled on this board. I can check.

As far as rebar goes, I have Borderlands 3, Metro, Forza Horizon 4, F1 2020 and all of them show what you would expect - F1 definitely takes a hit, Borderlands takes a small hit, Metro and Forza are pretty close to the same - though I haven't compared low FPS, just averages.


----------



## cstkl1

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Mine works without disabling it, maybe if I enable it it won't work? Pretty sure it is set to Auto right now, which might be default disabled on this board. I can check.
> 
> As far as rebar goes, I have Borderlands 3, Metro, Forza Horizon 4, F1 2020 and all of them show what you would expect - F1 definitely takes a hit, Borderlands takes a small hit, Metro and Forza are pretty close to the same - though I haven't compared low FPS, just averages.


1d voltage centering is enabled by default

and its more of a 2dimm board thing. on apex


----------



## pdixon0

Hey guys

Hoping for a little advice please regarding memory speeds and gears.

I have a 11700K running on a STRIX E board (BIOS 0704). RAM is G.Skill 2x16GB 3733MHz CL17 RAM which I believe is B die? Part number is F4-3733C17D-32GTZR

Would you recommend running at 3733 Gear 1 or should I attempt to run it faster in Gear 2? For example it will run quite happily at 4000MHz on the same timings in Gear 2 in 1T.

I don't pretend to understand anything about memory timings and bandwidth etc.

11700K is SP55 unfortunately with the attached V/F curve, currently running at 1.45 Adaptive set in BIOS LLC5 for 52,52,50,50,49,49,49,49 default cache with 1.05 VCCIO, 1.25 OC VCCIO and 1.25 VCCSA.

Thanks


----------



## cstkl1

pdixon0 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Hoping for a little advice please regarding memory speeds and gears.
> 
> I have a 11700K running on a STRIX E board (BIOS 0704). RAM is G.Skill 2x16GB 3733MHz CL17 RAM which I believe is B die? Part number is F4-3733C17D-32GTZR
> 
> Would you recommend running at 3733 Gear 1 or should I attempt to run it faster in Gear 2? For example it will run quite happily at 4000MHz on the same timings in Gear 2 in 1T.
> 
> I don't pretend to understand anything about memory timings and bandwidth etc.
> 
> 11700K is SP55 unfortunately with the attached V/F curve, currently running at 1.45 Adaptive set in BIOS LLC5 for 52,52,50,50,49,49,49,49 default cache with 1.05 VCCIO, 1.25 OC VCCIO and 1.25 VCCSA.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> View attachment 2486544


go 3733 tight

or 4266


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can someone post your gaming benchmark with your OC 11900k? I want to see if its worth a shot to get another 11900k.


----------



## Arni90

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone post your gaming benchmark with your OC 11900k? I want to see if its worth a shot to get another 11900k.


We play AIDA64 and CPU-Z here, it's extremely P2W.

Got myself some Gigabyte SR DJR sticks for fun, they were able to boot 5600 MHz on a M13 Hero: Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5100 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

EDIT: on a more serious note, what games would you like to see?


----------



## kylethepenguin

jomama22 said:


> Also, it should be noted that erratas like this exist for every cpu out there. It's just part of the process unfortunately.





HyperMatrix said:


> also doing a great job of staying cool.





fray_bentos said:


> In contrast to the ASUS boards, you don't get to see the default V/F numbers in the MSI, but you can set offsets for each pre-set multiplier. You may possibly be able to see the default V/F curve in Intel XTU if you have clocks and voltage set on auto. However, beware that XTU will override BIOS settings, so if you do look at that, it's best to uninstall it so it doesn't mess with subsequent overclocking attempts!


This is awesome info. Thanks for providing it. I will take a look and report back


----------



## i9forever

I got a message that I will get 4800 DJR 2x 8GB kit tomorrow, it is ADATA XPG SPECTRIX D50 XTREME 16GB KIT DDR4 4800MHz CL19. I am curious how high I can get it on the XIII Hero.


----------



## cstkl1

i9forever said:


> I got a message that I will get 4800 DJR 2x 8GB kit tomorrow, it is ADATA XPG SPECTRIX D50 XTREME 16GB KIT DDR4 4800MHz CL19. I am curious how high I can get it on the XIII Hero.


if it can do [email protected] than its pretty good

if closer to 1.6v.. @4800c19
hmm klevv 4kc19 bolt xr. 1/4th da price bro. 

adata was asking crazy price for the 5kc19


----------



## roooo

Arni90 said:


> We play AIDA64 and CPU-Z here, it's extremely P2W.
> 
> Got myself some Gigabyte SR DJR sticks for fun, they were able to boot 5600 MHz on a M13 Hero: Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5100 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


Talking of which...so what does AIDA tell you about these?!


----------



## roooo

@cstkl1 : Do you have any experience with the Klevv Bolt XR 4000 16 GB Kit (2x8GB, KD48GU880-40B190C)? Are they DJR, too?

Thanks.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> @cstkl1 : Do you have any experience with the Klevv Bolt XR 4000 16 GB Kit (2x8GB, KD48GU880-40B190C)? Are they DJR, too?
> 
> Thanks.


i posted here 5333c20 tight 1.75v stable


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> i posted here 5333c20 tight 1.75v stable


Ooops my bad...just did a quick search but could not find that post....would you mind giving me the link? I thought you had toyed with the 3600 16x2 kit but not the 4000 8x2?!


----------



## kylethepenguin

Man, seeing everyone here with their good memory scores even from low clocked RAM.

MSI z490 Ace bios is still a mess right now. Bugged where write and copy speeds are ridiculously low...










Beta bios / bios update cannot come soon enough.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> no reply from anybody on
> 
> da 1d voltage centering disable for 3866 bdie DR.. except that formula dude
> 
> guess nobody cares lol on it getting hci stable on apex z490/z590 bioses with ucode 3c
> 
> bdie DR up to 3866 1:1 is not using the same tuning as 1:2 btw on apex if you must know
> 
> diff skews. odt read etc.


Sorry 
Too much work at work LOL
I didn't forget it 😘


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> no effect.
> u can check memtweakit.
> it didnt change


So these guys saying it works on z590 mb are seeing run to run variance or what? Maybe they can post screen shots of it changed to 0 in memtweakit.

Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion Link to download latest portable memtweakit so we can see it at 0.


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> no reply from anybody on
> 
> da 1d voltage centering disable for 3866 bdie DR.. except that formula dude
> 
> guess nobody cares lol on it getting hci stable on apex z490/z590 bioses with ucode 3c
> 
> bdie DR up to 3866 1:1 is not using the same tuning as 1:2 btw on apex if you must know
> 
> diff skews. odt read etc.


I do not have ucode 3c but I tried disabling 1d read volt center and it did not let me boot 3866 at the settings you listed in your previous post.


----------



## roooo

kylethepenguin said:


> Man, seeing everyone here with their good memory scores even from low clocked RAM.
> 
> MSI z490 Ace bios is still a mess right now. Bugged where write and copy speeds are ridiculously low...
> 
> View attachment 2486590
> 
> 
> Beta bios / bios update cannot come soon enough.


Didn't check your previous posts - are you topping out at 3200 or didn't you try any higher? I'm assuming this is gear 1 (preferred), also did you give CR1 a go?


----------



## Arni90

@cstkl1 at what clock speed/timings do you expect SR/DR DJR to surpass tuned DR B-die @3866 MHz in actual games?

I got the attached screenshot to be relatively stable, but it didn't pan out in better gaming performance.


----------



## macol

roooo said:


> Didn't check your previous posts - are you topping out at 3200 or didn't you try any higher? I'm assuming this is gear 1 (preferred), also did you give CR1 a go?


Thats what it looks for me with yesterdays Beta Bios (Link). No Chance of running CR1 in Gear1.

A81 vs. A82, Stock CPU XMP
















A81 vs. A82, 5GHz 3733 Gear1
















And i can`t boot 4266 anymore with the new Bios, here A81


----------



## SoldierRBT

11900K 5.2GHz / 4.5GHz 32GB 3733 14-14-14-28 1.50v 1.30v IO/SA. Didn't tweak much just ram values, voltages and round trip enable.


----------



## aznguyen316

kylethepenguin said:


> Man, seeing everyone here with their good memory scores even from low clocked RAM.
> 
> MSI z490 Ace bios is still a mess right now. Bugged where write and copy speeds are ridiculously low...
> 
> View attachment 2486590
> 
> 
> Beta bios / bios update cannot come soon enough.


Yikes. Here is stock XMP II setting on my 2x16GB kit 3200-15-15-35. I may try to tune 3600. 3733 doesn't seem to want to boot, but I need look around this thread for IO/SA voltages.


----------



## encrypted11

Anyone has a Z590 version of Asus TurboV?


----------



## menko2

SoldierRBT said:


> 11900K 5.2GHz / 4.5GHz 32GB 3733 14-14-14-28 1.50v 1.30v IO/SA. Didn't tweak much just ram values, voltages and round trip enable.
> 
> View attachment 2486610


I'm thinking to go from single rank 2x8gb 3600 [email protected] Samsung B-die.

To dual rank F4-4000C16D-32GTZR samsung B-die.

I'll tweak it to 3733mhz gear mode 1 for gaming in 4k.

Will i notice much difference in performance from going single to dual rank in gaming 4k?


----------



## shamino1978

encrypted11 said:


> Anyone has a Z590 version of Asus TurboV?











TurboV_Core_1.10.12.7z


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I'm thinking to go from single rank 2x8gb 3600 [email protected] Samsung B-die.
> 
> To dual rank F4-4000C16D-32GTZR samsung B-die.
> 
> I'll tweak it to 3733mhz gear mode 1 for gaming in 4k.
> 
> Will i notice much difference in performance from going single to dual rank in gaming 4k?


@shamino1978 really closed the gap this time between sr and dr on bdie. 

so hmm if u dont need 32.. go 16gb sr bdie.


----------



## Lownage

Is anyone playing games in here?

I got a feeling RKL is much snappier and inputlag is lower compared to my old 5,2GHz Allcore 9900k... Placebo?!


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> Is anyone playing games in here?
> 
> I got a feeling RKL is much snappier and inputlag is lower compared to my old 5,2GHz Allcore 9900k... Placebo?!


vermintide 2 rkl > 10900k
its a cpu intensive game. 

4000hrs on this game. new dlc coming in next week.

z490/z590 have better mobos do hard to say


----------



## morph.

Can't say I noticed much input lag difference from my 10850k to 11900k however only currently playing OutRiders when I go back to a twitch shooter I might notice something such as warzone.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> @shamino1978 really closed the gap this time between sr and dr on bdie.
> 
> so hmm if u dont need 32.. go 16gb sr bdie.


Thank you cstkl1.

I'm going to install the 11900k today and see how my games deal with it. I have different games and engines.
A few questions:

1) Since I don't have a lot of time to be playing with the bios I'm going to go for gear 1 with my samsung B-die kit around 3733 gear 1 cl14.
Is there any particular reason for dual rank not better than single rank as 10th gen.

I have a whole bunch of benchmarks of games to see the difference with my [email protected], ram 4400mhz 17-18-18-38.

2) About CPU cores i was thinking to leave all cores at 5.0ghz until BIOS mature. Similar than what I have in 10900k.

I just don't want to leave it at stock with the voltages going way so high as they do by default for what i have read here and reviews.

Do you think it's a good idea until BIOS develop properly?

3) My 11900k batch is V052G589. China. Are they getting SP better or worst over the ones made in Vietnam?

4) I also could return 11900k and keep my [email protected] SP 92 that goes very well in my system for some time and get instead this B-die kit F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB. 
Then in the future when bios for my z590 hero xiii mature see if it's worth get 11900k or wait for Alder Lake.

5) I like to keep my systems for around 2 years so with PCIe4 from rocket lake i could be fine when new GPUs launch. 10900k pcie3 won't be good for that.

Recomendations?


----------



## roooo

macol said:


> Thats what it looks for me with yesterdays Beta Bios (Link). No Chance of running CR1 in Gear1.
> 
> A81 vs. A82, Stock CPU XMP
> View attachment 2486605
> View attachment 2486606
> 
> 
> A81 vs. A82, 5GHz 3733 Gear1
> View attachment 2486601
> View attachment 2486602
> 
> 
> And i can`t boot 4266 anymore with the new Bios, here A81
> View attachment 2486608


Ok...the A82 / 3733 values are looking pretty good and are close to what I am getting with 11900K/Hero XIII/F4-4600C18-8GTZR.

Last night I did some benchmarking under Linux (Ubuntu 20.04 with 5.11.0-14.1-liquorix-amd64 kernel) comparing 3733-14-14 vs. 4309-16-16 in terms of various applications startup times (file manager, gimp, large excel/open office spreadsheet, pdf viewer with large documents; startup was measured with external 30FPS video camera and counting frames), 7z compression, rsync of 17GB Windows folder, single 17GB file copy on Optane SSD and startup of a Windows7 virtual machine and the differences are within margin of error. I also measured memory read/write/copy/latency with Intel's MLC tool for Linux and the values are very close to what AIDA64 gave me under Win10.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

macol said:


> Thats what it looks for me with yesterdays Beta Bios (Link). No Chance of running CR1 in Gear1.
> 
> A81 vs. A82, Stock CPU XMP
> View attachment 2486605
> View attachment 2486606
> 
> 
> A81 vs. A82, 5GHz 3733 Gear1
> View attachment 2486601
> View attachment 2486602
> 
> 
> And i can`t boot 4266 anymore with the new Bios, here A81
> View attachment 2486608


3733C13 latency still seems not right. Here's 3600 14-15-35 gear 1. RTL default.


----------



## encrypted11

You’re actually not able to tell where the dies came from. They could be from Israel, Ireland, or USA. It’s pretty much a black box.

Vietnam, China or Malaysia marks just the final assembly and testing point which is a "Copy Exactly!" manufacturing site where the dies are mounted on the PCB.




menko2 said:


> Thank you cstkl1.
> 
> I'm going to install the 11900k today and see how my games deal with it. I have different games and engines.
> A few questions:
> 
> 1) Since I don't have a lot of time to be playing with the bios I'm going to go for gear 1 with my samsung B-die kit around 3733 gear 1 cl14.
> Is there any particular reason for dual rank not better than single rank as 10th gen.
> 
> I have a whole bunch of benchmarks of games to see the difference with my [email protected], ram 4400mhz 17-18-18-38.
> 
> 2) About CPU cores i was thinking to leave all cores at 5.0ghz until BIOS mature. Similar than what I have in 10900k.
> 
> I just don't want to leave it at stock with the voltages going way so high as they do by default for what i have read here and reviews.
> 
> Do you think it's a good idea until BIOS develop properly?
> 
> 3) My 11900k batch is V052G589. China. Are they getting SP better or worst over the ones made in Vietnam?
> 
> 4) I also could return 11900k and keep my [email protected] SP 92 for some time and get instead this B-die kit F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB. Then in the future see if it's worth get 11900k or wait for Alder Lake.
> 
> 5) I like to keep my systems for around 2 years so with PCIe4 from rocket lake i could be fine when new GPUs launch. 10900k pcie3 won't be good for that.
> 
> Recomendations?


----------



## munternet

shamino1978 said:


> TurboV_Core_1.10.12.7z
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thankyou 
I am using it on MA12 as I had trouble with the previous version freezing up all the time


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> Thank you cstkl1.
> 
> I'm going to install the 11900k today and see how my games deal with it. I have different games and engines.
> A few questions:
> 
> 1) Since I don't have a lot of time to be playing with the bios I'm going to go for gear 1 with my samsung B-die kit around 3733 gear 1 cl14.
> Is there any particular reason for dual rank not better than single rank as 10th gen.
> 
> I have a whole bunch of benchmarks of games to see the difference with my [email protected], ram 4400mhz 17-18-18-38.
> 
> 2) About CPU cores i was thinking to leave all cores at 5.0ghz until BIOS mature. Similar than what I have in 10900k.
> 
> I just don't want to leave it at stock with the voltages going way so high as they do by default for what i have read here and reviews.
> 
> Do you think it's a good idea until BIOS develop properly?
> 
> 3) My 11900k batch is V052G589. China. Are they getting SP better or worst over the ones made in Vietnam?
> 
> 4) I also could return 11900k and keep my [email protected] SP 92 that goes very well in my system for some time and get instead this B-die kit F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB.
> Then in the future when bios for my z590 hero xiii mature see if it's worth get 11900k or wait for Alder Lake.
> 
> 5) I like to keep my systems for around 2 years so with PCIe4 from rocket lake i could be fine when new GPUs launch. 10900k pcie3 won't be good for that.
> 
> Recomendations?


SP is random, even in the same batch. Want better chance? Buy 100x 11900k and take the best


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> SP is random, even in the same batch. Want better chance? Buy 100x 11900k and take the best


Probably easier to pay you a healthy premium so you're gonna sell one of your SP9x....


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> no reply from anybody on
> 
> da 1d voltage centering disable for 3866 bdie DR.. except that formula dude
> 
> guess nobody cares lol on it getting hci stable on apex z490/z590 bioses with ucode 3c
> 
> bdie DR up to 3866 1:1 is not using the same tuning as 1:2 btw on apex if you must know
> 
> diff skews. odt read etc.


Unfortunately I did not receive my Apex yet... ;-)


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Thank you cstkl1.
> 
> I'm going to install the 11900k today and see how my games deal with it. I have different games and engines.
> A few questions:
> 
> 1) Since I don't have a lot of time to be playing with the bios I'm going to go for gear 1 with my samsung B-die kit around 3733 gear 1 cl14.
> Is there any particular reason for dual rank not better than single rank as 10th gen.
> 
> I have a whole bunch of benchmarks of games to see the difference with my [email protected], ram 4400mhz 17-18-18-38.
> 
> 2) About CPU cores i was thinking to leave all cores at 5.0ghz until BIOS mature. Similar than what I have in 10900k.
> 
> I just don't want to leave it at stock with the voltages going way so high as they do by default for what i have read here and reviews.
> 
> Do you think it's a good idea until BIOS develop properly?
> 
> 3) My 11900k batch is V052G589. China. Are they getting SP better or worst over the ones made in Vietnam?
> 
> 4) I also could return 11900k and keep my [email protected] SP 92 that goes very well in my system for some time and get instead this B-die kit F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB.
> Then in the future when bios for my z590 hero xiii mature see if it's worth get 11900k or wait for Alder Lake.
> 
> 5) I like to keep my systems for around 2 years so with PCIe4 from rocket lake i could be fine when new GPUs launch. 10900k pcie3 won't be good for that.
> 
> Recomendations?


err the bios pretty much there bro unless intel releases a new ucode

asus ahead on djr dr, does tight djr sr, does bdie sr tight. 

djr dr especially i think asus the only board plug and play 4800c19 easy & 5066 etc depends on ram. 

atm
its just one pest @cstkl1 bothering
@shamino1978 on his breaktime on bdie dr. 

hence we need more ppl to change from one pest to MANY.


----------



## IronAge

@cstkl1

What about CJR dr ? Should be similiar to DJR dr or worse ? thx


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> What about CJR dr ? Should be similiar to DJR dr or worse ? thx


dunno dude... 

I was on bdie for months
and just like 1 month before the launch only went DJR ( was pretty hard to find until another fellow german helped me out)


----------



## fray_bentos

menko2 said:


> Thank you cstkl1.
> 
> I'm going to install the 11900k today and see how my games deal with it. I have different games and engines.
> A few questions:
> 
> 1) Since I don't have a lot of time to be playing with the bios I'm going to go for gear 1 with my samsung B-die kit around 3733 gear 1 cl14.
> Is there any particular reason for dual rank not better than single rank as 10th gen.
> 
> I have a whole bunch of benchmarks of games to see the difference with my [email protected], ram 4400mhz 17-18-18-38.
> 
> 2) About CPU cores i was thinking to leave all cores at 5.0ghz until BIOS mature. Similar than what I have in 10900k.
> 
> I just don't want to leave it at stock with the voltages going way so high as they do by default for what i have read here and reviews.
> 
> Do you think it's a good idea until BIOS develop properly?
> 
> 3) My 11900k batch is V052G589. China. Are they getting SP better or worst over the ones made in Vietnam?
> 
> 4) I also could return 11900k and keep my [email protected] SP 92 that goes very well in my system for some time and get instead this B-die kit F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB.
> Then in the future when bios for my z590 hero xiii mature see if it's worth get 11900k or wait for Alder Lake.
> 
> 5) I like to keep my systems for around 2 years so with PCIe4 from rocket lake i could be fine when new GPUs launch. 10900k pcie3 won't be good for that.
> 
> Recomendations?


Recommendation: stick with what you have got. At best you'll see a sidegrade, at worst, a downgrade. Wasted time and money (well, it would be for me).


----------



## cstkl1

11900k finally arrived to MY. 100 units only.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k finally arrived to MY. 100 units only.


Here in spain there is stock. But Rams...only the low-middle end ones.

Prices went down from 659€ to 599€ in 11900k.


----------



## PovGRide742

*What VCCIO (memory) and VCCSA voltages are you all running at?* I get 3A post-code errors at 1.35V for both, and a 55 post-code error at 1.45V. Auto lets me through, but man those voltages are high.

3600 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II):









3733 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM):









3733 14-13-13-29 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM, Primary Timing Changes):


----------



## Intrud3r

Prices dropped in the Netherlands also ...


----------



## fray_bentos

Intrud3r said:


> Prices dropped in the Netherlands also ...
> 
> View attachment 2486675


Prices have dropped across the entire 11th Gen series in the UK by about 10% so far.


----------



## roooo

PovGRide742 said:


> *What VCCIO (memory) and VCCSA voltages are you all running at?* I get 3A post-code errors at 1.35V for both, and a 55 post-code error at 1.45V. Auto lets me through, but man those voltages are high.
> 
> 3600 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II):
> View attachment 2486672
> 
> 
> 3733 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM):
> View attachment 2486673
> 
> 
> 3733 14-13-13-29 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM, Primary Timing Changes):
> View attachment 2486674


3733-14-15-15-22 CR1 Gear 1 and 4309-16-16-16-25 CR1 Gear 2 at VDIMM 1.45, VCCIO 1.05, VCCIO Mem OC 1.35, VCCSA 1.25. This is with 11900K on Hero XIII 0704, 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR (B-Die) on 100:133, XMP1 with some Subs tightened. Have to add that I'm running Linux 95% of the time, did not stress test yet but have been using these settings on my work horse for several days now without any glitches.


----------



## Encode_GR

PovGRide742 said:


> *What VCCIO (memory) and VCCSA voltages are you all running at?* I get 3A post-code errors at 1.35V for both, and a 55 post-code error at 1.45V. Auto lets me through, but man those voltages are high.
> 
> 3600 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II):


My Kingston kit at XMP 3600,1:1, 100:133, with tighter than stock timings, runs fine at DRAM = 1.4V, MemVCCIO = 1.20, VCCSA = 1.20.


----------



## aznguyen316

PovGRide742 said:


> *What VCCIO (memory) and VCCSA voltages are you all running at?* I get 3A post-code errors at 1.35V for both, and a 55 post-code error at 1.45V. Auto lets me through, but man those voltages are high.
> 
> 3600 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II):
> 
> 
> 3733 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM):
> 
> 
> 3733 14-13-13-29 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM, Primary Timing Changes):


On stock XMP 3200C15-15-35 is pretty low on gear MemOC IO 1.125V and SA 1.12V

When I OC to 3600C16-16-36 CR2 DRAM 1.4V and auto IO/SA, IO goes to 1.3V ish and SA 1.5V so yeah I was wondering about that. Gear 1 auto SA voltage is high, but when it goes to Gear 2 it goes way down to 1.12V or so if I remember. If i set manual IO/SA to 1.3V it boots but I cannot get further than 200% on karhu before an error. I haven't tested auto IO/SA stability at 3600-16-16-36 yet on my kit.

If I try auto settings with 3733-16-16-36 it wants to do Gear 2 CR1, and lower IO/SA. Gear 1 will not POST.


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> *What VCCIO (memory) and VCCSA voltages are you all running at?* I get 3A post-code errors at 1.35V for both, and a 55 post-code error at 1.45V. Auto lets me through, but man those voltages are high.
> 
> 3600 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II):
> View attachment 2486672
> 
> 
> 3733 14-15-15-35 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM):
> View attachment 2486673
> 
> 
> 3733 14-13-13-29 2T (XMP II bumped to 3733, 100:133, 1:1, 1.50V DRAM, Primary Timing Changes):
> View attachment 2486674


Have you tested stability on 14-13-13-29??

Currently with: 2x16dr bdie 3733 14-15-15-32, tightened secondaries & tertiaries
CIO 1.072v
CIOM 1.33v
SA 1.31v
DRAM1.5v


----------



## menko2

aznguyen316 said:


> On stock XMP 3200C15-15-35 is pretty low on gear MemOC IO 1.125V and SA 1.12V
> 
> When I OC to 3600C16-16-36 CR2 DRAM 1.4V and auto IO/SA, IO goes to 1.3V ish and SA 1.5V so yeah I was wondering about that. Gear 1 auto SA voltage is high, but when it goes to Gear 2 it goes way down to 1.12V or so if I remember. If i set manual IO/SA to 1.3V it boots but I cannot get further than 200% on karhu before an error. I haven't tested auto IO/SA stability at 3600-16-16-36 yet on my kit.
> 
> If I try auto settings with 3733-16-16-36 it wants to do Gear 2 CR1, and lower IO/SA. Gear 1 will not POST.


What's the difference in running 100:100 vs 100:133?


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> What's the difference in running 100:100 vs 100:133?


choose ram speeds at 100:133 shamino and others said those are much faster.. so 3600, 3733, 4000, 4266 etc


----------



## menko2

aznguyen316 said:


> choose ram speeds at 100:133 shamino and others said those are much faster.. so 3600, 3733, 4000, 4266 etc


I'm my mobo z590 hero that option is at auto.

So 100:133 is the option to leave right?


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> I'm my mobo z590 hero that option is at auto.
> 
> So 100:133 is the option to leave right?


If you are manually setting your DRAM Freq, then auto will know if it's 100:100 or 100:133, based on the DRAM frequency selected, If you manually set 100:133 then you'll see the non 100:133 frequencies greyed out in the frequency drop down options. Either way works.


----------



## YoungChris

YaqY said:


> That picture is also a fake .


bit of a late reply
pic def fake but the board is capable of such
not a far leap from being able to do 4800c14 1t comet lake benching to that in terms of board quality (if any at all)


----------



## roooo

Alright, here's another one to confirm that the combo 11900K + Hero XIII does have severe issues with DIMMs: Until two hours ago, I've been toying around with this combo (BIOS 0704) and 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR (B-Die). I could not go any higher than 3733 in Gear 1 and 4309 in Gear 2, no matter what voltages and how loose timings I chose. I also tried with a brand new kit of HyperX Predator 3600-CL17 2x16GB (thanks @cstkl1 for that suggestion) but this kit would not even post at 3733 Gear 1 and 4267 Gear 2, so I had to revert back to stock 3600.

Today I also received my Apex XIII. I installed it with the 11900K and 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR and flashed BIOS to 0704. Then I dialed in XMP2 and successively upped freq from 4267 over 4533 to 4800 at stock timings (18-22-22-42) CR2 in Gear 2, 100:133. 4800 required me to bump VDIMM to 1.5V, VCCIO Mem to 1.45 and VCCSA to 1.35V but MemTest is in pass #4 now without errors. I did not touch timings yet and voltages are not optimized either, I just wanted to check if it really is the board - and there you have it!

If I find the time during the next days I'll optimize my mem O/C and report back.


----------



## Vld

Deliding 11 gen is easy !

Today got my hands on 11700kf a.k. guinea pig. Straight out of box it went not to cpu socket but on the table for deliding 

What can i say - not much difference comparing to 10 gen, no high risk, only thing is that you have to be patient since it takes 10-20 x more time compared to 10 gen.


What you need :

11 gen cpu
Rockit Cool delid kit ( or similar )
Hot air gun with temperature control ( i used hikoki RH650V )
Pair of gloves that can stand heat
Heat resistant surface
Thin, sharp knive

Process :

Take the sucker out of box, put it on heat resistant surface - in my case i did put it straight on base of delid tool.

Open beer.

Grab hot air gun, set it to 170-180 C and start heating cpu, 5 cm distance.

Do it for 2-3 minutes, put in to delider, does not matter much in what direction since indium tim and glue has softened.

Gently tighten screw till you feel resistance. Now this is important - you do want to move IHS no more then 1-1.5 mm !!! You need to visualy check how far it has moved. I used top opening on Rockit Cool delid kit and letters on cpu to measure.

Start to tighten screw - there should be not that much resistance as in der8auer’s video 




If you feel that it does not move - heat it more for minute or two. Once IHS has moved - remove cpu from delid tool, rotate cpu 180 degrees and repeat.

Remember - you need to do all these steps as fast as you possibly can to keep cpu hot. It cools down in 3-5 minutes to the point when indium tim stiffens.

Heat cpu for 2-3 minutes, this time rotate 90 degrees, tighten screw, remove from deliding tool, rotate 180 degrees, repeat.

Remove cpu from delid tool, remove IHS. Open beer. Done.

Then as usual - cleaning of surface, i used sharp knive, after that some metal polish ( one that came with Rockit Cool delid kit ) , 100% alcohol.

Hope it helps !

p.s. english is not my native


----------



## bscool

The latest 2103 bios lets me boot and run 4533 2x16 b die on z490 Apex with 11900k. Seems like I cannot go lower than c18 or it wont boot. Haven't tested stability just ran a quick aida64. Still cannot boot 3866 with 1:1 limited to 3733. ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME (Z490) Discussion &amp...


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> The latest 2103 bios lets me boot and run 4533 2x16 b die on z490 Apex with 11900k. Seems like I cannot go lower than c18 or it wont boot. Haven't tested stability just ran a quick aida64. Still cannot boot 3866 with 1:1 limited to 3733. ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME (Z490) Discussion &amp...


\


menko2 said:


> What's the difference in running 100:100 vs 100:133?


try disabling 1d read voltage centering
sa/io 1.4
3866c15 twcl 13
trdwr dg/sg/dr/dd 13


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> \
> 
> try disabling 1d read voltage centering
> sa/io 1.4
> 3866c15 twcl 13
> trdwr dg/sg/dr/dd 13


I just tried those settings along with earlier I had tried looser timings and nothing. Just boot loops. 4533 dual rank b dies doesn't look good for getting stable with some quick testing. Throws errors right away with any kind of mem test.

It looks like I won or tied the lotto for lowest 11900k SP with a 54-55 depending on bios  I was hoping the new bios would show a higher sp. Even removing and replacing the CPU it still shows 55. This is a screen from a previous bios

Vietnam batch x106m319


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I just tried those settings along with earlier I had tried looser timings and nothing. Just boot loops. 4533 dual rank b dies doesn't look good for getting stable with some quick testing. Throws errors right away with any kind of mem test.
> 
> It looks like I won or tied the lotto for lowest 11900k SP with a 54-55 depending on bios  I was hoping the new bios would show a higher sp. Even removing and replacing the CPU it still shows 55. This is a screen from a previous bios
> 
> Vietnam batch x106m319
> 
> View attachment 2486744


its better than my es


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> The latest 2103 bios lets me boot and run 4533 2x16 b die on z490 Apex with 11900k. Seems like I cannot go lower than c18 or it wont boot. Haven't tested stability just ran a quick aida64. Still cannot boot 3866 with 1:1 limited to 3733. ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME (Z490) Discussion &amp...


nice wonder what the formula board can do 3866 g1 maybe?


----------



## Bilco

Hahaha... MSI 1.8 beta bios actually added nearly 6ns latency i was getting over 5.4 with better timings, though I can no longer reach 102blck only 101blck:
Release:








vs beta:








MS-Sigh!!!


----------



## Grog_XMP

Running the MSI Beta BIOS - I did see a few NS drop in latency.
Stock CPU and just some quick timings I setup tonight, much room for tweaking.








It's doing better in benchmarks across the board with the new microcode. MSI needs to fully release this!


----------



## morph.

Can't post with 2103 with 3866 gear 1, c15 or g2 4533 c17 didn't try c18 with my DR bdie.

Has anyone been able to run the uncore cache > 4.5ghz stable with memory tests if so what vcore are u running?


----------



## SoldierRBT

morph. said:


> Can't post with 2103 with 3866 gear 1, c15 or g2 4533 c17 with my DR bdie.
> 
> Has anyone been able to run the uncore cache > 4.5ghz stable with memory tests if so what vcore are u running?


Same. 3866 Gear 1 4533 Gear 2 won’t boot. I’ve been using 5.2GHz / 4.5GHz 1.42v LLC5 no issues with Apex Z490. RAM 3733 14-14-14-28 1.50v 1.30v IO/SA tight timings. 

I can bench 4.7GHz ring. 4.8GHz won’t boot. DR 3733 13-13-13-28 bench stable


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Same. 3866 Gear 1 4533 Gear 2 won’t boot. I’ve been using 5.2GHz / 4.5GHz 1.42v LLC5 no issues with Apex Z490. RAM 3733 14-14-14-28 1.50v 1.30v IO/SA tight timings.
> 
> I can bench 4.7GHz ring. 4.8GHz won’t boot. DR 3733 13-13-13-28 bench stable


DR or SR??


----------



## cstkl1

alienware lol is garbage...

20k on aida 3200C14 xmp
and it sues gear 2 + z490


----------



## Arni90

SoldierRBT said:


> Same. 3866 Gear 1 4533 Gear 2 won’t boot. I’ve been using 5.2GHz / 4.5GHz 1.42v LLC5 no issues with Apex Z490. RAM 3733 14-14-14-28 1.50v 1.30v IO/SA tight timings.
> 
> I can bench 4.7GHz ring. 4.8GHz won’t boot. DR 3733 13-13-13-28 bench stable


Have you tried higher VCCSA? I need VCCSA at 1.5V to train 3866 MHz 14-14-28 with dual rank B-die

@cstkl1 : which games benefit from running really high speed DJR kits? Compared to DR B-die at 3733 or 3866 that is.


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> Have you tried higher VCCSA? I need VCCSA at 1.5V to train 3866 MHz 14-14-28 with dual rank B-die
> 
> @cstkl1 : which games benefit from running really high speed DJR kits? Compared to DR B-die at 3733 or 3866 that is.


F1 2020, csgo, vermintide 2,

theres a correlation on SA/mc io requirement on certain kits depending on the vdimm
example one guy need 3866C14 1.55v might need sa 1.5v and another guy 3866C1.5v need 1.35v

in happens in cml also but not the the extent we are seeing with RKL .. its on all chips afaik.. bdie/djr..


----------



## bscool

ppd 0 msi unify z490 with 11900k On z490 unify best setting with z590 cpu is ppd1. Setting ppd0 adds around 3-4ns in aida64. Just put the cpu in but boots and trains faster than z490 Apex trying 4266 dual rank b die.

Edit updated bios to latest a82 beta bios and now 4266 doesn't boot with dual rank b die. Worked the little I tried with bios a81 beta

Also no boot at 3733 with a82, didnt try with a81 @3733


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> ppd 0 msi unify z490 with 11900k On z490 unify best setting with z590 cpu is ppd1. Setting ppd0 adds around 3-4ns in aida64. Just put the cpu in but boots and trains faster than z490 Apex trying 4266 dual rank b die.
> 
> View attachment 2486776


suspect wrong implementation of SAGV hence why u are getting all this results

but hmm the datasheet does show its similar to 10th gen.. no idea why no effect on asus.
and changing the value in bios doesnt change in memtweakit..


----------



## Arni90

This is probably the best I can do at 3866 with the M13 Hero








Weirdly enough, tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg performed *better* at 7 than 5

AIDA's gonna AIDA, the theoretical bandwidth of 3866 MHz memory is 61800 MB/s, while AIDA reports copy bandwidth above 62000


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> This is probably the best I can do at 3866 with the M13 Hero
> View attachment 2486787
> 
> 
> Weirdly enough, tRDRD_sg and tWRWR_sg performed *better* at 7 than 5
> 
> AIDA's gonna AIDA, the theoretical bandwidth of 3866 MHz memory is 61800 MB/s, while AIDA reports copy bandwidth above 62000


thats been the trait for DR bdie back in z490...


----------



## morph.

Best I can do with a stable Gear 1, 4733, 2103 on the M12 Formula with out going too yeet on voltages DR B-Die.:


----------



## PovGRide742

roooo said:


> 3733-14-15-15-22 CR1 Gear 1 and 4309-16-16-16-25 CR1 Gear 2 at VDIMM 1.45, VCCIO 1.05, VCCIO Mem OC 1.35, VCCSA 1.25. This is with 11900K on Hero XIII 0704, 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR (B-Die) on 100:133, XMP1 with some Subs tightened. Have to add that I'm running Linux 95% of the time, did not stress test yet but have been using these settings on my work horse for several days now without any glitches.





Encode_GR said:


> My Kingston kit at XMP 3600,1:1, 100:133, with tighter than stock timings, runs fine at DRAM = 1.4V, MemVCCIO = 1.20, VCCSA = 1.20.





aznguyen316 said:


> On stock XMP 3200C15-15-35 is pretty low on gear MemOC IO 1.125V and SA 1.12V
> 
> When I OC to 3600C16-16-36 CR2 DRAM 1.4V and auto IO/SA, IO goes to 1.3V ish and SA 1.5V so yeah I was wondering about that. Gear 1 auto SA voltage is high, but when it goes to Gear 2 it goes way down to 1.12V or so if I remember. If i set manual IO/SA to 1.3V it boots but I cannot get further than 200% on karhu before an error. I haven't tested auto IO/SA stability at 3600-16-16-36 yet on my kit.
> 
> If I try auto settings with 3733-16-16-36 it wants to do Gear 2 CR1, and lower IO/SA. Gear 1 will not POST.


Wonder if I just have a weak memory controller then or if I'm just expecting too much from it.



morph. said:


> Have you tested stability on 14-13-13-29??
> 
> Currently with: 2x16dr bdie 3733 14-15-15-32, tightened secondaries & tertiaries
> CIO 1.072v
> CIOM 1.33v
> SA 1.31v
> DRAM1.5v


Nah. I was trying to see how far I could take 3733 before it didn't boot. 13-15-15-35 didn't boot and 14-12-12-35 didn't boot. 14-13-13-35 did and the old tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS to try 14-13-13-29 and it booted. But didn't bother stability testing after getting a performance decrease:


----------



## morph.

PovGRide742 said:


> Wonder if I just have a weak memory controller then or if I'm just expecting too much from it.
> 
> 
> Nah. I was trying to see how far I could take 3733 before it didn't boot. 13-15-15-35 didn't boot and 14-12-12-35 didn't boot. 14-13-13-35 did and the old tCL+tRCD+2=tRAS to try 14-13-13-29 and it booted. But didn't bother stability testing after getting a performance decrease:
> View attachment 2486795


Ah okay was thinking no way it was stable haha you would be lucky to get 14 flat 3733 stable with dr bdie unless you go for big voltages I think. I can boot 14 flat but errors within a few mins of mem test. Nor can I seem to run higher than 4500 uncore else I crash/get errors with memtest  tried 1T CR as well but wouldn’t post even with trace cantering enabled...

14-15-15-32 is the lowest primaries I can go with my voltages for stability and can’t seem to get 5.3ghz stable with 8 cores so back to 5.2 for 7-8 active cores, 5.3 for up to 6 active cores and 5.4 ghz with 2active cores.

I’ll be adding a 3rd 360 radiator and redoing my custom loop in the next couple of weeks that should give my ram some active cooling too so will try for slightly higher voltages then... or if there’s a new bios for DR Bdie


----------



## morph.

Managed to get 6th in Time spy, I have previously gotten 22.9k GPU score with my 10850k so when I go back to horizontal (with PCIE4) mount ill try again haven't enabled re-bar too so I wonder if that impacts TimeSpy scores. However, with my 10850k I seemed to easily break into 22k GPU score even though my current oc for my 3090 is higher so that's a bit weird.










My Best 11900k run: I scored 20 348 in Time Spy

My Best 10850k run: I scored 21 616 in Time Spy


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Managed to get 6th in Time spy, I have previously gotten 22.9k GPU score with my 10850k so when I go back to horizontal (with PCIE4) mount ill try again haven't enabled re-bar too so I wonder if that impacts TimeSpy scores. However, with my 10850k I seemed to easily break into 22k GPU score even though my current oc for my 3090 is higher so that's a bit weird.
> 
> View attachment 2486799
> 
> 
> My Best 11900k run: I scored 20 348 in Time Spy
> 
> My Best 10850k run: I scored 21 616 in Time Spy


my physics is 152xx on 5.2


----------



## SoldierRBT

cstkl1 said:


> DR or SR??


Dual rank. 4266C17 2x16GB



Arni90 said:


> Have you tried higher VCCSA? I need VCCSA at 1.5V to train 3866 MHz 14-14-28 with dual rank B-die


3733 14-14-14-28 tight timings needs 1.30v IO/SA to be daily stable. 3733 13-13-13-28 needs 1.35v IO/SA to boot. I've tried up to 1.45v IO/SA for 3866 14-15-15-28 auto timings it won't boot.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SoldierRBT said:


> Dual rank. 4266C17 2x16GB
> 
> 
> 
> 3733 14-14-14-28 tight timings needs 1.30v IO/SA to be daily stable. 3733 13-13-13-28 needs 1.35v IO/SA to boot. I've tried up to 1.45v IO/SA for 3866 14-15-15-28 auto timings it won't boot.


If gear 1 try to increase IO. Or gear 2 increase Mem OC.


----------



## SoldierRBT

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If gear 1 try to increase IO. Or gear 2 increase Mem OC.


What voltage would be safe for IO? I've been using 1.05v. IO Mem OC and SA on Gear 1 I use 1.30v for 3733C14


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> What voltage would be safe for IO? I've been using 1.05v. IO Mem OC and SA on Gear 1 I use 1.30v for 3733C14


1.52 SA
mcio whatever boots

sa/io is just like cpu.. what damages is the current. daily nobody stresses anything close to hci..


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> 1.52 SA
> mcio whatever boots


Thanks. Does have VCCIO any impact at all, or is it better to keep it locked to 1.05V?


----------



## morph.

SoldierRBT said:


> Dual rank. 4266C17 2x16GB
> 
> 
> 
> 3733 14-14-14-28 tight timings needs 1.30v IO/SA to be daily stable. 3733 13-13-13-28 needs 1.35v IO/SA to boot. I've tried up to 1.45v IO/SA for 3866 14-15-15-28 auto timings it won't boot.


You are referring to mem io yeah? I tried that fails within minutes in mem test  even with looser tras.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> my physics is 152xx on 5.2


Damn that's high... what cooling?

My best cpu score for 11900k for now is:









Perhaps the 3rd 360 radiator for me will help a little and comming into winter...


----------



## encrypted11

roooo said:


> Thanks. Does have VCCIO any impact at all, or is it better to keep it locked to 1.05V?


I'm trying the Z590I Vision D after my Strix-I.

Although VCCIO is on auto, HWINFO is suggesting 1.072V which is probably 1.05V in BIOS (Intel Spec). So you will likely just need MCIO.

Gigabyte labels VCCIO as VCCIO1 1.05V Intel Spec and VCCIO2 1.0V Intel Spec (with no clear description of IMC). I'm still in early stages of experimenting with the BIOS. Based on defaults, it seems like I'm needing both than just one of the 2 or just VCCIO2 which confuses me from what I knew from the STRIX. I've not gotten high frequency stable yet.









The GSAT memory copy rate is a lot worse (maybe 8000MB/s less at the same speed). But the hardware is a lot better than STRIX-I, tantalum caps on entire VRM and there were about just 3 Nichicon FPcaps on the board.

I couldn't identify MCIO by far as there are VCCIO1 (Intel Spec 1.05V & VCCIO2 1.00V) but I've been setting these 2 voltages manually. Not sure if it's gigabyte but it seems to need some of both unlike the strix?.. But the BIOS does seem very faulty for now.


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> Holy crap.
> I cranked out your terts with my primaries and corked this out.
> No idea if stable yet. I'm at 1.5v. Going to run prime95 large FFT and see if threads start crashing.
> 
> View attachment 2485117


Wowser cr1 what magic was done?


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Damn that's high... what cooling?
> 
> My best cpu score for 11900k for now is:
> View attachment 2486810
> 
> 
> Perhaps the 3rd 360 radiator for me will help a little and comming into winter...


just water . this was back in December on a not mature bios with 4400c16 DR on extreme

it was when i notice the avx bug so was testing which benchmark shows massive gain
timespy


----------



## kylethepenguin

roooo said:


> Didn't check your previous posts - are you topping out at 3200 or didn't you try any higher? I'm assuming this is gear 1 (preferred), also did you give CR1 a go?


Hey bud. I didn't try overclocking at that point really because I didn't want to spend the time on an outdated bios.

I have since updated to the latest beta bios for msi z490 ACE (v 1.81, shout out to Macol). Here is my updated aida64 benches with 3200mhz and 3733mhz:


----------



## kylethepenguin

aznguyen316 said:


> Yikes. Here is stock XMP II setting on my 2x16GB kit 3200-15-15-35. I may try to tune 3600. 3733 doesn't seem to want to boot, but I need look around this thread for IO/SA voltages.
> 
> View attachment 2486637


I have since installed a bios update for my board with updated microcode (3c). Results are much better now:


----------



## kylethepenguin

So, I am really new to this whole ram overclocking thing.

Currently I'm running this:









Do you guys have any suggestions to help me decrease my latency? I'm currently running Nov 2016 batch b-die (trident-z F4-3200C14Q-32GTZ).

My SA is at 1.25, and my memory IO is at 1.30. RAM is at 1.4v. I do have all 4 sticks in, and I have a fan cooling them.

Thanks in advance. This thread is awesome seeing how much performance you are all able to wring out of the 11900k.


----------



## cstkl1

kylethepenguin said:


> I have since installed a bios update for my board with updated microcode (3c). Results are much better now:
> 
> View attachment 2486826


msi should really do some work instead of just waiting for intel ucode to save them...

they seem to be chasing high clock loosing timings...

edit.. bro is that 4x8gb?? nice. check asrock z590 thread to get the latest atc


----------



## Grog_XMP

cstkl1 said:


> msi should really do some work instead of just waiting for intel ucode to save them...
> 
> they seem to be chasing high clock loosing timings...


There is something wrong there. I got 43-44ns on 3733 13-13-13-28 using the msi beta bios.


----------



## macol

Far from stable...
but anyway:


----------



## KyloRen

macol said:


> Far from stable...
> but anyway:
> View attachment 2486836


What's your voltages like for memory and cpu, and what other settings did you adjust? My 11700k can do 1:1 4x8gb 3600 cl14-15-15-35 at xmp 1.45v. But won't boot 3733 1:1 auto timings at sa/mem io 1.35v


----------



## macol

Not for 24/7! SA 1,5 ; IO 1,55 ; Ram 1,65
I was hunting for sub 40ns.
It is 2x16 3200CL14 B-Die and my 11700 is crap...^^
Which board do you have?


----------



## KyloRen

macol said:


> Not for 24/7! SA 1,5 ; IO 1,55 ; Ram 1,65
> I was hunting for sub 40ns.
> It is 2x16 3200CL14 B-Die and my 11700 is crap...^^
> Which board do you have?


I've got a ASUS Z590 Maximus Hero XIII. I haven't done any cpu oc yet but with "let bios optimize" cpu setting and 1:1 3600 cl14 xmp i'm getting around 52ns in aida64. I'm going to try for 1.4v sa/io to see if 3733 boots. If not i'll tighten 3600 and overclock my cpu and aim for 45-48ns. Not a lot of guides out there for 11700k everyday overclocking so i'm pushing my amateur overclocking skills to the limit haha


----------



## macol

Your are at the right place! But dont ask me, ask the other guys here...^^
This thread should get u started, i had my cpu even before Nizzen and still figuring things out.
And on an Asus Board its much easier because more people sharing their results and giving tips.
MSI did a good job, the CPU was running a month before the release without issues but ASUS or this case espacially Shamino
updated and tweaked the Bios to a point were they are quiet ahead.


----------



## eeroo94

KyloRen said:


> What's your voltages like for memory and cpu, and what other settings did you adjust? My 11700k can do 1:1 4x8gb 3600 cl14-15-15-35 at xmp 1.45v. But won't boot 3733 1:1 auto timings at sa/mem io 1.35v


 Might not like 4x8gb, try if it boots with 2x8gb in correct slots.


----------



## bscool

Possible warning for people with z490 Unify and z590 cpu. I tried to flash back to a81 from a82 with 11900k and now the board seems bricked. Even replacing cpu with 10850k does nothing. Trying to flash bios with flashback just gives upside down A code

Just to add it did reboot and work after flashing back to a81 with 11900k. Then I set mem oc to 3733 14-15-15 1.55v ram and left everything else on auto and it was on the reboot where it just seemed to die.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Not bad for 8 cores...


----------



## macol

@bscool
Can you flash it back to a82 with the Flash BIOS Button? Support told me to Clear CMOS after update.


----------



## bscool

macol said:


> @bscool
> Can you flash it back to a82 with the Flash BIOS Button? Support told me to Clear CMOS after update.


I tried that, just gives upside down A code. Put the 11900k back in z490 apex and it works. I was kind of hoping it killed it lol. being a 54 SP.

Edit oh wait, I didn't try a82 just a81. thank I will try that.

Edit edit, it was a82 I was try to flashback. Maybe I will try a81. I guess I have nothing to lose.

Just tried a81 and same. I think it is dead. Could be a short somewhere or PSU that just happen to go bad at that time but I am guessing it is the MB. I will update if I find it is something else.


----------



## kylethepenguin

cstkl1 said:


> msi should really do some work instead of just waiting for intel ucode to save them...
> 
> they seem to be chasing high clock loosing timings...
> 
> edit.. bro is that 4x8gb?? nice. check asrock z590 thread to get the latest atc


Yeah, running 4x8.

I will try messing with higher SA and IO to push primaries lower.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Not bad for 8 cores...
> 
> View attachment 2486845


dude where ure crazy evga rtx 3080 that does [email protected]??


----------



## SoldierRBT

cstkl1 said:


> dude where ure crazy evga rtx 3080 that does [email protected]??


In its original box somewhere in my house. Haven’t used it since I got the 3090 KPE.


----------



## bscool

Update on the z490 Unify and 11900k issue, I removed everything so it was just cpu and psu connected. Disconnected GPU, RAM, all NVME/SATA, bios battery and then did flashback using bios a81 and it is back working. I have the 10850k back in and will leave it with that.

I guessing it corrupted bios trying the 3733 with bios a81 with 11900k.


----------



## omeds

Hey guys, just wondering if anyone might know why my L1 cache scores are so low? The 4533 settings are far from stable, just tuning, but the 3600 settings are stable, still with low result.


----------



## Falkentyne

omeds said:


> Hey guys, just wondering if anyone might know why my L1 cache scores are so low? The 4533 settings are far from stable, just tuning, but the 3600 settings are stable, still with low result.
> View attachment 2486869
> View attachment 2486870


Your L1 cache scores are perfectly normal. Well at least they are similar to mine at the same frequency.
I saw the 11700k scores above. I don't know if that's standard or an anomaly.


----------



## omeds

Thanks, I was hoping that was the answer. It's just that I notice a lot of other peoples scores are exactly double - AIDA64 bug?


----------



## Falkentyne

omeds said:


> Thanks, I was hoping that was the answer. It's just that I notice a lot of other peoples scores are exactly double - AIDA64 bug?


I'm not sure but I just now stole some of @encrypted11 's terts timings and yeeted this out.


----------



## OCmember

Does Intel do a type of Gear Down Mode like AMD chips?


----------



## Falkentyne

@cstkl1 
disabling AVX cuts the L1 speed in half in aida64.










How are people getting L1 cache 4k read and copy?


----------



## Falkentyne

omeds said:


> Thanks, I was hoping that was the answer. It's just that I notice a lot of other peoples scores are exactly double - AIDA64 bug?


Ok I enabled AVX 512 and got this.
seems like disabling any AVX option cuts your L1 speed.


----------



## omeds

I was just going to say you hit the nail on the head with AVX - I had AVX512 disabled! Thanks.

Any chance you can PM me those 4266 timings?


----------



## encrypted11

Anyone tried changing FCLK on Early Power On from 1000MHz to 800MHz (I might be wrong on the default ratios) if your SA's been peaked on voltages? Pretty sure I've seen this option available on RKL as well but I've haven't had the need to mess with that.

Used to work for Skylake (Cuts SA and IO voltage requirements to get memory stable at a particular speed) but it might hurt the performance of PCI and SA related buses a little.


----------



## encrypted11

Falkentyne said:


> I'm not sure but I just now stole some of @encrypted11 's terts timings and yeeted this out.
> 
> View attachment 2486873


If they were b-die SR timings on the TridentZ, a part of them were likely from @[email protected] profiles on Maximus 8-10 Apex BIOSes


----------



## omeds

Have a set of 4 x F4-4000C15-8GTZR. If anyone could help point me in the right direction for terts it would be greatly appreciated. XMP are very loose. Would like to get around 4266-4533 stable at 1.5v or slightly above if possible.


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> @cstkl1
> disabling AVX cuts the L1 speed in half in aida64.
> 
> View attachment 2486875
> 
> 
> How are people getting L1 cache 4k read and copy?


not surprised. that disabling thing is a bug. 

but that makes it harder to explain why prime95 runs like on steroids with avx disabled. 

afaik i havent seen adverse effect of it being disabled in non avx load.


----------



## cstkl1

omeds said:


> Have a set of 4 x F4-4000C15-8GTZR. If anyone could help point me in the right direction for terts it would be greatly appreciated. XMP are very loose. Would like to get around 4266-4533 stable at 1.5v or slightly above if possible.


hint two sticks of that kit is what safedisk running 5kc17.. 

so.. 

4x8gb on daisy.. hmm 4266 should be fine. 4533.. err


----------



## omeds

I'll aim for 4266 then. It was stable using XMP/Auto but terts very loose and TBH I'm a bit lost with where I should start.


----------



## Falkentyne

omeds said:


> I was just going to say you hit the nail on the head with AVX - I had AVX512 disabled! Thanks.
> 
> Any chance you can PM me those 4266 timings?


----------



## cstkl1

manage to grab one retail 11900k


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

MSI's "SP" function.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> not surprised. that disabling thing is a bug.
> 
> but that makes it harder to explain why prime95 runs like on steroids with avx disabled.
> 
> afaik i havent seen adverse effect of it being disabled in non avx load.


Cold War gave 2 less FPS on the Apocalypse map in solo multiplayer mode with AVX disabled.
Try running prime95 in benchmark mode also, to test the speed.
Disable AVX512, FMA3 and AVX by editing local.txt in the prime folder and enter the lines:

CpuSupportsAVX512F=0 (pay attention to the spelling)
CPUSupportsFMA3=0
CPUSupportsAVX=0

Then run benchmark mode, 15 seconds per iteration, with AVX512 and AVX2 enabled in the BIOS first.
I guess you can try 8 cores, 15 seconds 5k to 12k FFT and record the throughput.

Then disable avx512 and avx2 in BIOS and run the same benchmark with the same settings and compare the results.

Also I'm pretty >99% sure the FFT finishing fast is a bug in Prime95.
I'll probably report it if I'm not too lazy.

if you disable AVX512, AVX2 and AVX in the stress test options manually, with all AVX enabled in the BIOS, the FFT goes slow.
If you disable AVX512F, FMA3 and AVX in "Local.txt", the FFT goes fast.

So, disabling AVX in the BIOS is the exact same as having AVX disabled in "Local.txt".

This seems to be a bug with disabling it in "stress test options" when it's enabled by default already.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> hint two sticks of that kit is what safedisk running 5kc17..
> 
> so..
> 
> 4x8gb on daisy.. hmm 4266 should be fine. 4533.. err


Do you know which of this two kits have better binned chips?

F4-4000C16D-32GTZR [email protected] 1.4v

F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB [email protected] 1.5v


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> MSI's "SP" function.
> View attachment 2486881


safedisk

just did 3900c11 sp32m and now is no 1..

so there goes running 5200-5333c14/13...









safedisk`s SuperPi - 32M score: 3min 39sec 875ms with a Core i9 11900K


The Core i9 11900K @ 7119MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 32M benchmark. safediskranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Do you know which of this two kits have better binned chips?
> 
> F4-4000C16D-32GTZR [email protected] 1.4v
> 
> F4-4266C17D-32GTZRB [email protected] 1.5v


norm is 
[email protected]
good is 
[email protected]
insane is 
[email protected]

luck of the draw + cpu luck + mobo+ users knowledge.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> norm is
> [email protected]
> good is
> [email protected]
> insane is
> [email protected]
> 
> luck of the draw + cpu luck + mobo+ users knowledge.


I know bin luck we can't control.

But if you have to buy one of this two kits which one will you pick?


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I know bin luck we can't control.
> 
> But if you have to buy one of this two kits which one will you pick?


i am bias to the 4kc17 because mine is good
but safedisk is 4kc16 which is the insane one. while i know many on both kits are at the norm

so..


----------



## bscool

menko2 said:


> I know bin luck we can't control.
> 
> But if you have to buy one of this two kits which one will you pick?


What about waiting a month or so for the new kits from g skill? But who knows that month could be 2 or 3 or never like a lot of their kits they say are coming.

That 4400c17 2x16 looks nice if it ever comes out. G.SKILL Announces New Extreme Speed Memory Kits Up to DDR4-5333 for Intel Z590 Platform-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. or G.SKILL Announces New High-End Trident Z Royal Elite Series DDR4 Memory-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## menko2

bscool said:


> What about waiting a month or so for the new kits from g skill? But who knows that month could be 2 or 3 or never like a lot of their kits they say are coming.
> 
> That 4400c17 2x16 looks nice if it ever comes out. G.SKILL Announces New Extreme Speed Memory Kits Up to DDR4-5333 for Intel Z590 Platform-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. or G.SKILL Announces New High-End Trident Z Royal Elite Series DDR4 Memory-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


I really would like to get one of this but I'm running now a single rank 2x8gb. 

They are samsung B-die and Overclock well. 

I play in 4k so it won't be much noticeable but reading igorslab article about single and dual rank even at 4k i should get more stable fps with dual rank.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> What about waiting a month or so for the new kits from g skill? But who knows that month could be 2 or 3 or never like a lot of their kits they say are coming.
> 
> That 4400c17 2x16 looks nice if it ever comes out. G.SKILL Announces New Extreme Speed Memory Kits Up to DDR4-5333 for Intel Z590 Platform-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. or G.SKILL Announces New High-End Trident Z Royal Elite Series DDR4 Memory-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


they announced that kit 1 year ago bro
never released. 
and then now in royal elite its missing


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> they announced that kit 1 year ago bro
> never released.
> and then now in royal elite its missing


My z590 hero xiii is daisy chain.

Is it better to go for 2x16gb or 4x8gb?

Daisy chain is better for 2x16 but in igorslab article 4x8gb gets a little better results in gaming.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@ menko2
Both is 4Way-Interleaving, no difference in performance on 4Dimm Board.
2x16gb ist better because DaisyChain.


----------



## cstkl1

@menko2

Intel 11900k - SP76
*Asus Z590 Maximus XIII APEX* - Bios 0611

CPU - ATB enabled 50/[email protected] 1.24 LLC2

GSKILL F4-4000CL17-32GTRSB (Bdie DR) @ 1.5v

3866 14-15-15-28-2N
SA/MCIO - 1.4/1.4


4400 16-17-17-28-1N
SA/MCIO - 1.25/1.25


4533 17-17-17-34-1N
SA/MCIO - 1.3/1.3



apex is apex


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> My z590 hero xiii is daisy chain.
> 
> Is it better to go for 2x16gb or 4x8gb?
> 
> Daisy chain is better for 2x16 but in igorslab article 4x8gb gets a little better results in gaming.


theres a reason why those guys dont step into ocn/chiphell/hardwarelux and talk about ram.


----------



## Bilco

So I am not sure if I should stick it out with this z490 godlike with the way MSI's bios support has been going. I would like to get a XIII Apex but I have not seen one for retail in the US at all. I do have access to the XIII Hero. Is there that much of a capability difference in OCing between the Apex and Hero? Is the performance difference between the z490 godlike and z590 Asus boards going to even really be noticeable outside of numbers?

Right now I am able to get 5.25ghz at 1.36v gaming stable with the z490... sort of concerned that the 2 less phases on the Hero may result in a worse overclock.

Wondering if its worth it to just be content with this MSI z490 GL or go through the hassle and $500 to swap to the hero/wait for apex. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> @menko2
> 
> Intel 11900k - SP76
> *Asus Z590 Maximus XIII APEX* - Bios 0611
> 
> CPU - ATB enabled 50/[email protected] 1.24 LLC2
> 
> GSKILL F4-4000CL17-32GTRSB (Bdie DR) @ 1.5v
> 
> 3866 14-15-15-28-2N
> SA/MCIO - 1.4/1.4
> 
> 
> 4400 16-17-17-28-1N
> SA/MCIO - 1.25/1.25
> 
> 
> 4533 17-17-17-34-1N
> SA/MCIO - 1.3/1.3
> 
> 
> 
> apex is apex


Nice what sort of secondary/tertiary timings are u running for them? Would love to take a look at your timings for all 3, please.

Are they all just running dram 1.5v?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> safedisk
> 
> just did 3900c11 sp32m and now is no 1..
> 
> so there goes running 5200-5333c14/13...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> safedisk`s SuperPi - 32M score: 3min 39sec 875ms with a Core i9 11900K
> 
> 
> The Core i9 11900K @ 7119MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 32M benchmark. safediskranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org


No surprise since air cooling can do 6450 MHz already 😁


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Nice what sort of secondary/tertiary timings are u running for them? Would love to take a look at your timings for all 3, please.
> 
> Are they all just running dram 1.5v?


yes all 1.5v


----------



## bscool

Bilco said:


> So I am not sure if I should stick it out with this z490 godlike with the way MSI's bios support has been going. I would like to get a XIII Apex but I have not seen one for retail in the US at all. I do have access to the XIII Hero. Is there that much of a capability difference in OCing between the Apex and Hero? Is the performance difference between the z490 godlike and z590 Asus boards going to even really be noticeable outside of numbers?
> 
> Right now I am able to get 5.25ghz at 1.36v gaming stable with the z490... sort of concerned that the 2 less phases on the Hero may result in a worse overclock.
> 
> Wondering if its worth it to just be content with this MSI z490 GL or go through the hassle and $500 to swap to the hero/wait for apex. Anyone have any thoughts?


No you will not be able to tell outside of bench marks or reading #. Probably get a little more out of ram oc. But is it worth it to you to go from say 4266 to 4533 or 4800 just so you know you have the highest #.


----------



## Bilco

bscool said:


> No you will not be able to tell outside of bench marks or reading #. Probably get a little more out of ram oc. But is it worth it to you to go from say 4266 to 4533 or 4800 just so you know you have the highest #.


Can't even get 4266 on z490 godlike with this 119k


----------



## bscool

*i9 10900K vs i9 11900K - Gaming*






PCBuilding


KingFaris10's Site




kingfaris.co.uk


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> So I am not sure if I should stick it out with this z490 godlike with the way MSI's bios support has been going. I would like to get a XIII Apex but I have not seen one for retail in the US at all. I do have access to the XIII Hero. Is there that much of a capability difference in OCing between the Apex and Hero? Is the performance difference between the z490 godlike and z590 Asus boards going to even really be noticeable outside of numbers?
> 
> Right now I am able to get 5.25ghz at 1.36v gaming stable with the z490... sort of concerned that the 2 less phases on the Hero may result in a worse overclock.
> 
> Wondering if its worth it to just be content with this MSI z490 GL or go through the hassle and $500 to swap to the hero/wait for apex. Anyone have any thoughts?


M13A is definitely superior to Z490GL, especially DR bdie. Computeruniverse sells M13A and ships to USA for about $520 incl. shipping.

MSI just begins to optimize 4-Dimm boards. If you don't want to switch to another board and rebuy windows, etc., You may wait for a little while to see if the new bios could improve.


----------



## Arni90

bscool said:


> *i9 10900K vs i9 11900K - Gaming*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCBuilding
> 
> 
> KingFaris10's Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingfaris.co.uk


Inb4 _a certain someone _claims he tested bugged games, or he overclocked his memory wrong.


----------



## bscool

Bilco said:


> Can't even get 4266 on z490 godlike with this 119k


I still do not think you will "notice" a difference in actual use other than benches. If you want to do it for fun and to OC higher sure. But in actual use there is no way I would be able to tell the difference from 3600c16 or 4533c16 mem OC.


----------



## bscool

Get em while they are hot  Products

Only $879 for 5.1 all core 11900k









Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5.1GHz Boxed Processor


Intel Core i9 11900K Overclocked and Binned CPU.




siliconlottery.com


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> Inb4 _a certain someone _claims he tested bugged games, or he overclocked his memory wrong.


look legit to me.. he oced both setup like an idiot. sometimes i blame apex for making things so easy for ppl until they they think its correct.

10900k
tfaw 47 ?? trrd_sg 6?? on DR?? _dd=1??

why dual rank on 10900k and single rank on 11900k??

i dunno why ppl chase for clicks etc instead of like learning ram oc and getting it stable etc

stock 11900k 4800C19 DR djr + Strix 3080
1080p Very High AC Origins










seems like it beats a 5.2ghz OCED 11900k + STRIX 3090



bscool said:


> Get em while they are hot  Products
> 
> Only $879 for 5.1 all core 11900k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5.1GHz Boxed Processor
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K Overclocked and Binned CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconlottery.com



some ppl like to be scammed by them

they are literally one of the biggest scammers.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> Get em while they are hot  Products
> 
> Only $879 for 5.1 all core 11900k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5.1GHz Boxed Processor
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K Overclocked and Binned CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconlottery.com


I have tested 4 retaill 11900Ks so far. All can do 5.1 all core 30min R23 @socket sense 1.35~1.42V, llc set to no vdrop.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I have tested 4 retaill 11900Ks so far. All can do 5.1 all core 30min R23 @socket sense 1.35~1.42V, llc set to no vdrop.



Kinda makes me want to check that SP 55 sample I have to see. Interestingly, that sample also boots DR B die @ 3866 CL14 Gear1. Didn't do any stability testing on it, but apparently its much more rare than I originally thought to have a chip that can run DR B die that high in G1.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I have tested 4 retaill 11900Ks so far. All can do 5.1 all core 30min R23 @socket sense 1.35~1.42V, llc set to no vdrop.


of course bro
silicon lottery is scammer

they did the same **** on 10900k and sold sp63

its obvious they are using asus, so why not just state the SP right and show the v/f


----------



## Grog_XMP

bscool said:


> *i9 10900K vs i9 11900K - Gaming*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCBuilding
> 
> 
> KingFaris10's Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingfaris.co.uk


This review uses an old BIOS with old microcode vs a mature tuned 10900k among other weird choices. It's not a good comparison.


----------



## Grog_XMP

Result not found







www.3dmark.com




Stock power limits on my 3080 FE. I'm becoming pretty happy with the performance of this system after some tweaking, still a ways to go improving both RAM and CPU OC.


----------



## cstkl1

Grog_XMP said:


> This review uses an old BIOS with old microcode vs a mature tuned 10900k among other weird choices. It's not a good comparison.


he is legit.. not saying he is not.. cause he nerfs everything.
i wouldnt put any merit on his ( OC)


----------



## cstkl1

Grog_XMP said:


> Result not found
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stock power limits on my 3080 FE. I'm becoming pretty happy with the performance of this system after some tweaking, still a ways to go improving both RAM and CPU OC.


disable avx in bios and u will gain another 1k on cpu score


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I have tested 4 retaill 11900Ks so far. All can do 5.1 all core 30min R23 @socket sense 1.35~1.42V, llc set to no vdrop.


Yeah mine can do R20/R23, 5.1 ghz, 1.50v set + LLC3 and x47 cache, no problem (I think vcore is 1.32v load?). About 10mv above the Asus Non-AVX prediction for SP76
LLC5 prediction is 1.449v for non AVX (1.450v bios set worked for that, I think vcore was 1.332v, slightly higher than the 1.50v set +LLC3, I forgot actually, but temps were 3C hotter).
No AVX offsets. So that's already better than the SL -1 AVX offsets.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> of course bro
> silicon lottery is scammer
> 
> they did the same **** on 10900k and sold sp63
> 
> its obvious they are using asus, so why not just state the SP right and show the v/f


That's not really the problem.
There have been some SP63 chips posted in the other thread that did better than SP70-80, although not sure if they ran hotter.
The problem is they use an AVX offset. They should test all their chips with AVX 0 offset. 30 min R23/R20 loop is good enough.
I can understand if they don't test Prime small FFT AVX. That will fail clock watchdog on non golden chips at 5.1 ghz or reach 100C.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Anyone having issues 11900K + Z490 Apex? Computer reboots randomly while playing games even with defaults BIOS settings. Swapped to 10900K 4600C17 no issues. Using latest BIOS 2103 (reboots also happened on 2102).


----------



## Grog_XMP

cstkl1 said:


> disable avx in bios and u will gain another 1k on cpu score


Is that a 3dmark specific tweak? 
Working on an optimal daily OC with this using turbo ratio. Once I get that figured out I may push for the top 3dmark score although its pretty good so far.


----------



## Grog_XMP

SoldierRBT said:


> Anyone having issues 11900K + Z490 Apex? Computer reboots randomly while playing games even with defaults BIOS settings. Swapped to 10900K 4600C17 no issues. Using latest BIOS 2103 (reboots also happened on 2102).


Try running AIDA64 stability test for awhile and see if it fails. Could also be PSU related?


----------



## cstkl1

Grog_XMP said:


> Is that a 3dmark specific tweak?
> Working on an optimal daily OC with this using turbo ratio. Once I get that figured out I may push for the top 3dmark score although its pretty good so far.


bug in rkl


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> Anyone having issues 11900K + Z490 Apex? Computer reboots randomly while playing games even with defaults BIOS settings. Swapped to 10900K 4600C17 no issues. Using latest BIOS 2103 (reboots also happened on 2102).


Run prime95 (latest version on their forum), large FFT with AVX disabled and report your results.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Anyone having issues 11900K + Z490 Apex? Computer reboots randomly while playing games even with defaults BIOS settings. Swapped to 10900K 4600C17 no issues. Using latest BIOS 2103 (reboots also happened on 2102).


i get that on rams bdie. until today i cant get bdie stable consistently

its like some issue on vref

edit 
only the 4266c17, 4400c17 is rock solid. 
this on both extreme and apex.


----------



## encrypted11

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I have tested 4 retaill 11900Ks so far. All can do 5.1 all core 30min R23 @socket sense 1.35~1.42V, llc set to no vdrop.


They should all do 5.1GHz all core at reasonable voltages at least. Considering the factory fused ratios from Intel are all 51 with the exception of the 2 favored cores at 53. (With 1 to 8 core active ratio going at 48-53 for TDP reasons).


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> They should all do 5.1GHz all core at reasonable voltages at least. Considering the factory fused ratios from Intel are all 51 with the exception of the 2 favored cores at 53. (With 1 to 8 core active ratio going at 48-53 for TDP reasons).


they did the samething bro on 10900k claiming some nonsensical percentage only could do 5-5.1ghz


----------



## SoldierRBT

Falkentyne said:


> Run prime95 (latest version on their forum), large FFT with AVX disabled and report your results.


Tested prime95 avx disabled small ffts, TM5 extreme and GSAT. All good but in gaming I get freeze image, weird noise then reboots. Same issue with everything on auto in BIOS.


cstkl1 said:


> i get that on rams bdie. until today i cant get bdie stable consistently
> 
> its like some issue on vref


I'm using Bdie 4266C17 2x16GB. Does it happen on Z590 boards?


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> Tested prime95 avx disabled small ffts, TM5 extreme and GSAT. All good but in gaming I get freeze image, weird noise then reboots. Same issue with everything on auto in BIOS.
> 
> 
> I'm using Bdie 4266C17 2x16GB. Does it happen on Z590 boards?


Large FFT's please.


----------



## bscool

@


SoldierRBT said:


> Anyone having issues 11900K + Z490 Apex? Computer reboots randomly while playing games even with defaults BIOS settings. Swapped to 10900K 4600C17 no issues. Using latest BIOS 2103 (reboots also happened on 2102).


That must be the performance boost from the new microcode @Grog_XMP is talking about  I think that has the newer microcode anyway. I have only used it a little but didn't test it much. I see @cstkl1 said he is having issues with it too. Dang if that is true rocket lake is really a mess when used with z490 MB.

I know I had never seen the issues I saw the other day putting the 11900k in the z490 Unify. I thought it was bricked.


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Tested prime95 avx disabled small ffts, TM5 extreme and GSAT. All good but in gaming I get freeze image, weird noise then reboots. Same issue with everything on auto in BIOS.
> 
> 
> I'm using Bdie 4266C17 2x16GB. Does it happen on Z590 boards?


yes.
issue is bdie.

doesnt happen on djr dr/sr even sr 5333c20 tight or semi stable 5200c20 dr

4266c17, 4400c17 and 3734c14 was rock stable. no issue. 

its just funny that djr gets away with semi stable but can game..
while bdie is a no no.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Kinda makes me want to check that SP 55 sample I have to see. Interestingly, that sample also boots DR B die @ 3866 CL14 Gear1. Didn't do any stability testing on it, but apparently its much more rare than I originally thought to have a chip that can run DR B die that high in G1.


Yeah all that 4 samples I believe were around SP78 or so. If you can boot DR Bdie 3866 gear1, that would be an awesome chip!


----------



## Bilco

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> M13A is definitely superior to Z490GL, especially DR bdie. Computeruniverse sells M13A and ships to USA for about $520 incl. shipping.
> 
> MSI just begins to optimize 4-Dimm boards. If you don't want to switch to another board and rebuy windows, etc., You may wait for a little while to see if the new bios could improve.


Im not seeing it listed, you have a link you could pm?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> of course bro
> silicon lottery is scammer
> 
> they did the same **** on 10900k and sold sp63
> 
> its obvious they are using asus, so why not just state the SP right and show the v/f


I may only trust them for the 1% silicon chips. My friends bought a 1% 10900K from them and that was a great chip, almost the same as that sp126 10900KF


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

encrypted11 said:


> They should all do 5.1GHz all core at reasonable voltages at least. Considering the factory fused ratios from Intel are all 51 with the exception of the 2 favored cores at 53. (With 1 to 8 core active ratio going at 48-53 for TDP reasons).


I believe so. Intel should leave some safety rooms for that ABT all core 5.1.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Im not seeing it listed, you have a link you could pm?


PMed.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> yes.
> issue is bdie.
> 
> doesnt happen on djr dr/sr even sr 5333c20 tight or semi stable 5200c20 dr
> 
> 4266c17, 4400c17 and 3734c14 was rock stable. no issue.
> 
> its just funny that djr gets away with semi stable but can game..
> while bdie is a no no.


I haven't noticed any freezing or stuttering yet with outriders for bdie.


----------



## morph.

I run active core oc with the 2 favored cores or less at 5.4ghz with 3-6 cores active at 5.3ghz but with 7- 8 cores active it runs 5.2ghz no issues.

5.3ghz insta crash on load with all cores even when I increased the voltages.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yeah all that 4 samples I believe were around SP78 or so. If you can boot DR Bdie 3866 gear1, that would be an awesome chip!


apex harder to boot compare to extreme bro

extreme was doing this on bios 02xx


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> I haven't noticed any freezing or stuttering yet with outriders for bdie.


in extreme i dont get it as much as apex.
djr not affected at all.
as i mention before.. u can even do semistable and game with it.

vermintide 2 very sensitive to ram and cpu
any crashes in this game its always hardware.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> apex harder to boot compare to extreme bro
> 
> extreme was doing this on bios 02xx


That would be awesome, but no M13E is officially in the us yet. 💀 And MSI sucks in DR...


----------



## cstkl1

@bscool @OLDFATSHEEP 

this just my theory which i pointed it to @Falkentyne last year..

rkl seems to have a "prefered" distance on mcio/sa to vdimm

the closer it gets to vdimm.. is where we see issues.

djr vdimm so high sa/io low
4800c19 DR 1.55v only uses 1.2/1.2 on sa/io

bdie dr
1:1 3600/3733c14 vdimm 1.4/1.45 sa/io pretty low 1.15-1.25

then comes [email protected] sa/io 1.4 v.. sure it boots but this seems to cause issue.

apex since its shorter trace seems to be pro
sa/io requirement which also a con it seems to be affected by that also.

just my theory. nothing conclusive.

bdie SR io/sa low. not affected like bdie DR.


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool @OLDFATSHEEP
> 
> this just my theory which i pointed it to @Falkentyne last year..
> 
> rkl seems to have a "prefered" distance on mcio/sa to vdimm
> 
> the closer it gets to vdimm.. is where we see issues.
> 
> djr vdimm so high sa/io low
> 4800c19 DR 1.55v only uses 1.2/1.2 on sa/io
> 
> bdie dr
> 1:1 3600/3733c14 vdimm 1.4/1.45 sa/io pretty low 1.15-1.25
> 
> then comes [email protected] sa/io 1.4 v.. sure it boots but this seems to cause issue.
> 
> apex since its shorter trace seems to be pro
> sa/io requirement which also a con it seems to be affected by that also.
> 
> just my theory. nothing conclusive.
> 
> bdie SR io/sa low. not affected like bdie DR.


Maybe setting boot Mem IO/Boot SA to 1.52v/1.52v with the regular values lower (like 1.30v/1.35v) will help?
I didn't test this.


----------



## bscool

Looks like a good guide to help people new to mem OC get started


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool @OLDFATSHEEP
> 
> this just my theory which i pointed it to @Falkentyne last year..
> 
> rkl seems to have a "prefered" distance on mcio/sa to vdimm
> 
> the closer it gets to vdimm.. is where we see issues.
> 
> djr vdimm so high sa/io low
> 4800c19 DR 1.55v only uses 1.2/1.2 on sa/io
> 
> bdie dr
> 1:1 3600/3733c14 vdimm 1.4/1.45 sa/io pretty low 1.15-1.25
> 
> then comes [email protected] sa/io 1.4 v.. sure it boots but this seems to cause issue.
> 
> apex since its shorter trace seems to be pro
> sa/io requirement which also a con it seems to be affected by that also.
> 
> just my theory. nothing conclusive.
> 
> bdie SR io/sa low. not affected like bdie DR.


Not a pro but I think I got no problems. Just tested MCIO/SA 1.5/1.49v with 1.55v vdimm at 3733c14 near 58 celsius ram temp, seems OK.









MSI bios keeps IO1=1.05V by default all the time, but rises MCIO to sky-high, sth around 1.5~1.6v for 3733~3866 gear1, which should be far over the vdimm in gear 1 range.

The closer you get between the vdimm and the io/sa might means you're closer to the limit of your IMC.

Another thing is the vdrop. If you take all the resistances into considerations, including the wires and caps or so, higher volt get more "absolute vdrops" on those resistances. Change SA llc might help.


----------



## kalston

Shamino sent me and a few other people a beta BIOS to fix the clock_watchdog_timeout with Intel default settings on some Asus z590 boards. Not only did it _work_, but it improved my *overall *gaming performance. 

Funny enough it broke my ability to boot in Gear 1 mode 3733mhz cl14 (even cl15 won't boot now actually). But with Gear 2, 4000mhz & cl15 on this BIOS I'm having better gaming performance than I ever did with Gear 1 3733 cl14 - despite Aida looking much worse latency wise. Since the BSODs pointed to a vcore issue it's probably the CPU boosting behaviour that was buggy though. But still - it seems they changed something related to memory too. Guess I'd need to mess around with voltages now to boot in Gear 1 mode (didn't try going all the way down to 3600). Most likely I'll just wait for a few more BIOS iterations before I start tweaking the memory again.


----------



## encrypted11

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Not a pro but I think I got no problems. Just tested MCIO/SA 1.5/1.49v with 1.55v vdimm at 3733c14 near 58 celsius ram temp, seems OK.
> View attachment 2486970
> 
> 
> MSI bios keeps IO1=1.05V by default all the time, but rises MCIO to sky-high, sth around 1.5~1.6v for 3733~3866 gear1, which should be far over the vdimm in gear 1 range.
> 
> The closer you get between the vdimm and the io/sa might means you're closer to the limit of your IMC.
> 
> Another thing is the vdrop. If you take all the resistances into considerations, including the wires and caps or so, higher volt get more "absolute vdrops" on those resistances. Change SA llc might help.


Out of curiosity, what are the peak PD charge rates on its thunderbolt c ports?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

encrypted11 said:


> Out of curiosity, what are the peak PD charge rates on its thunderbolt c ports?


Haven't tested but the spec states max 5V/3A


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Not a pro but I think I got no problems. Just tested MCIO/SA 1.5/1.49v with 1.55v vdimm at 3733c14 near 58 celsius ram temp, seems OK.
> View attachment 2486970
> 
> 
> MSI bios keeps IO1=1.05V by default all the time, but rises MCIO to sky-high, sth around 1.5~1.6v for 3733~3866 gear1, which should be far over the vdimm in gear 1 range.
> 
> The closer you get between the vdimm and the io/sa might means you're closer to the limit of your IMC.
> 
> Another thing is the vdrop. If you take all the resistances into considerations, including the wires and caps or so, higher volt get more "absolute vdrops" on those resistances. Change SA llc might help.


its not heat.

i used every config for tm5. they just good for vdimm and basic timing consistency

@Nizzen Fav karhu shines in rkl.

bdie DR sa/io quirks are just odd

i cant do [email protected] my daily on cml on rkl
what happens is any stress test ends up reboot after 15 -20 mins or sometimes 1 hr.
on extreme.
apex no problem on 0611 but didnt test every bios .

until today both board only djr sr/dr do 1000% consistenrly. bdie dr does not.
could he my es hence next few days when some of the retail units arrive .. can test.

since asrock and others are still tuning bdie dr.. so might be rkl issue with it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> its not heat.
> 
> i used every config for tm5. they just good for vdimm and basic timing consistency
> 
> @Nizzen Fav karhu shines in rkl.
> 
> bdie DR sa/io quirks are just odd
> 
> i cant do [email protected] my daily on cml on rkl
> what happens is any stress test ends up reboot after 15 -20 mins or sometimes 1 hr.
> on extreme.
> apex no problem on 0611 but didnt test every bios .
> 
> until today both board only djr sr/dr do 1000% consistenrly. bdie dr does not.
> could he my es hence next few days when some of the retail units arrive .. can test.
> 
> since asrock and others are still tuning bdie dr.. so might be rkl issue with it.


I have experienced some sudden reboots with MSI. They were caused by the new sa pwm ic that cant bear that pwm freq (or too high temp on the pwm ic). This may related to your issue since volt also affects temp. Now I can only set sa pwm to 500 Hz on MSI Z590i. Anything higher than 700 Hz can cause random reboots.


----------



## shamino1978

kalston said:


> Shamino sent me and a few other people a beta BIOS to fix the clock_watchdog_timeout with Intel default settings on some Asus z590 boards. Not only did it _work_, but it improved my *overall *gaming performance.
> 
> Funny enough it broke my ability to boot in Gear 1 mode 3733mhz cl14 (even cl15 won't boot now actually). But with Gear 2, 4000mhz & cl15 on this BIOS I'm having better gaming performance than I ever did with Gear 1 3733 cl14 - despite Aida looking much worse latency wise. Since the BSODs pointed to a vcore issue it's probably the CPU boosting behaviour that was buggy though. But still - it seems they changed something related to memory too. Guess I'd need to mess around with voltages now to boot in Gear 1 mode (didn't try going all the way down to 3600). Most likely I'll just wait for a few more BIOS iterations before I start tweaking the memory again.


I think its sa voltage lowered in new bios for gear1. I convinved my co worker to lower it as people were complaining about it being too high. You can try brute forcing it with 1 6v sa


----------



## cstkl1

shamino1978 said:


> I think its sa voltage lowered in new bios for gear1. I convinved my co worker to lower it as people were complaining about it being too high. You can try brute forcing it with 1 6v sa


bro forgot to ask
since now asus binned tray retail units which has lower vcore.

does it affect sa/io etc??
better/worse or no diff??


----------



## kalston

shamino1978 said:


> I think its sa voltage lowered in new bios for gear1. I convinved my co worker to lower it as people were complaining about it being too high. You can try brute forcing it with 1 6v sa


Good to know, thanks!


----------



## shamino1978

cstkl1 said:


> bro forgot to ask
> since now asus binned tray retail units which has lower vcore.
> 
> does it affect sa/io etc??
> better/worse or no diff??


actually its not me or people nearby doing this so i cant answer this.i think its much more tedious to consolidate data of io/sa vmin since it can depend a lot on rams used and sub-timings set and even vdimm as you probably know. there can be so many permutations.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> bro forgot to ask
> since now asus binned tray retail units which has lower vcore.
> 
> does it affect sa/io etc??
> better/worse or no diff??


I think it doesn't matter. In a brief test, that SP102 only did dual SR 3733 in gear 1, and only did all core 7035 MHz @1.9V.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I think it doesn't matter. In a brief test, that SP102 only did dual SR 3733 in gear 1, and only did all core 7035 MHz @1.9V.


on apex right. hmm can guess already y it couldnt do 3866. its not the cpu.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> on apex right. hmm can guess already y it couldnt do 3866. its not the cpu.


Yup was on apex.🤣


----------



## Arni90

kalston said:


> Shamino sent me and a few other people a beta BIOS to fix the clock_watchdog_timeout with Intel default settings on some Asus z590 boards. Not only did it _work_, but it improved my *overall *gaming performance.
> 
> Funny enough it broke my ability to boot in Gear 1 mode 3733mhz cl14 (even cl15 won't boot now actually). But with Gear 2, 4000mhz & cl15 on this BIOS I'm having better gaming performance than I ever did with Gear 1 3733 cl14 - despite Aida looking much worse latency wise. Since the BSODs pointed to a vcore issue it's probably the CPU boosting behaviour that was buggy though. But still - it seems they changed something related to memory too. Guess I'd need to mess around with voltages now to boot in Gear 1 mode (didn't try going all the way down to 3600). Most likely I'll just wait for a few more BIOS iterations before I start tweaking the memory again.


Different microcode, or still 3C?


----------



## kalston

Arni90 said:


> Different microcode, or still 3C?


Aida says "3Ch"


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> look legit to me.. he oced both setup like an idiot. sometimes i blame apex for making things so easy for ppl until they they think its correct.
> 
> 10900k
> tfaw 47 ?? trrd_sg 6?? on DR?? _dd=1??
> 
> why dual rank on 10900k and single rank on 11900k??
> 
> i dunno why ppl chase for clicks etc instead of like learning ram oc and getting it stable etc
> 
> stock 11900k 4800C19 DR djr + Strix 3080
> 1080p Very High AC Origins
> 
> View attachment 2486965
> 
> 
> seems like it beats a 5.2ghz OCED 11900k + STRIX 3090


So what if your 11900K OC beats his, it's still not better than the 10900K result?!?
I tested myself, and my 11900K at 5.1 GHz all cores with DR Bdie at 3866 MHz outperformed his result in the 1280x720 Very Low:









_However, that's *still not better than his 10900K* reaching 225.7 fps_


Your reading comprehension is frankly appalling, you manage to click on the picture to see memory settings, but fail to actually read the text above
_tFAW is actually at 16._

And a bit further below, in the FAQ:
*Why was single rank used for 11900K Gear 2*_ - With the 2102 BIOS, the maximum frequency that could POST was 4266MHz with dual rank B-Die for most people including myself. This meant that single rank had to be used to bruteforce bandwidth. _

Can you please try to explain your points a bit more clearly?
Most of your posts are just vague statements about how everyone else's setup is bad because they're not using exactly what you're using. 

For reference, this is the memory setup I used for the bench above:


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> So what if your 11900K OC beats his, it's still not better than the 10900K result?!?
> I tested myself, and my 11900K at 5.1 GHz all cores with DR Bdie at 3866 MHz outperformed his result in the 1280x720 Very Low:
> View attachment 2486995
> 
> 
> _However, that's *still not better than his 10900K* reaching 225.7 fps_
> 
> 
> Your reading comprehension is frankly appalling, you manage to click on the picture to see memory settings, but fail to actually read the text above
> _tFAW is actually at 16._
> 
> And a bit further below, in the FAQ:
> *Why was single rank used for 11900K Gear 2*_ - With the 2102 BIOS, the maximum frequency that could POST was 4266MHz with dual rank B-Die for most people including myself. This meant that single rank had to be used to bruteforce bandwidth. _
> 
> Can you please try to explain your points a bit more clearly?
> Most of your posts are just vague statements about how everyone else's setup is bad because they're not using exactly what you're using.
> 
> For reference, this is the memory setup I used for the bench above:
> View attachment 2486996


whats more appalling is now i regret unignoring you.
i thought it was one off but seems like this is just u.

run both at single rank. like duh. thinking is not for every one.

4600C17 SR BDIE on 10900k is not a difficult thing to do.

and whats shocking is that you just pointed out his values has a disparity but you decided came here to post questioning me for questioning him instead of wondering if his 11900k has problems... which means can anybody really trust his 10900k results etc . i gave that dude the benefit of that doubt 
..i question how stable is he on both test setup and that ram setup timings are bad. 

anyway back to the ignorelist. peace of mind.

also. talking about reading comprehension. I clearly posted @ STOCK!!! 11900k with strix 3080


----------



## IronAge

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup was on apex.🤣


On M12A with older than 2102 Bios ? 2102 helped on other Z490 Boards too for +3733 Gear1.

Just placed order for M13A now, could not resist for 464€.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I saw a 5950x hit 300fps in this game. Hows about 11900k?


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Just want to say that I haven't had a single crash on this CPU, ever. Coming from a 5600x/5800x/5900x that's a huge deal. I endlessly tried to figure out how to keep Cold War from crashing, nothing I did ever stopped the problem. I've now played for hours on end without issue. Also, the WHEA errors can go right to hell lol. Audio issues, intermittent USB connectivity issues, terrible all around. TBF, I haven't tried the latest AGESA, but I'm not hopeful that actually solved any problems. Sure, Zen 3 or CML might have some better performance in some instances. But I can't get over how stable this platform has been for me. I'm likely going to keep this setup until DDR5 matures, likely 4 years or more.

I know @Falkentyne and @cstkl1 have already said this, but I just want to reiterate that it really is a breath of fresh air not having a system that crashes randomly.


----------



## Falkentyne

kalston said:


> Shamino sent me and a few other people a beta BIOS to fix the clock_watchdog_timeout with Intel default settings on some Asus z590 boards. Not only did it _work_, but it improved my *overall *gaming performance.
> 
> Funny enough it broke my ability to boot in Gear 1 mode 3733mhz cl14 (even cl15 won't boot now actually). But with Gear 2, 4000mhz & cl15 on this BIOS I'm having better gaming performance than I ever did with Gear 1 3733 cl14 - despite Aida looking much worse latency wise. Since the BSODs pointed to a vcore issue it's probably the CPU boosting behaviour that was buggy though. But still - it seems they changed something related to memory too. Guess I'd need to mess around with voltages now to boot in Gear 1 mode (didn't try going all the way down to 3600). Most likely I'll just wait for a few more BIOS iterations before I start tweaking the memory again.


Is that 0705? Saw it posted on hwbot. Is there one for the Extreme?


----------



## cstkl1

Falkentyne said:


> Is that 0705? Saw it posted on hwbot. Is there one for the Extreme?


for apex afaik.. its just some bdie fixing etc...
afaik
and some improvement on SR/DR bdie...
4600C18 boots easy on that bios


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

IronAge said:


> On M12A with older than 2102 Bios ? 2102 helped on other Z490 Boards too for +3733 Gear1.
> 
> Just placed order fo M13A now, could not resist for 464€.


Nah...That test run was on M13A.


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> Is that 0705? Saw it posted on hwbot. Is there one for the Extreme?


Mind sharing the link?!


----------



## IronAge

ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0705.CAP


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





fix oc panel 80-port function
improve system performance


----------



## IronAge

Found another one, probably sb wants to try it:









ROG-STRIX-Z590-I-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0705.CAP


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Nizzen

Ready to rumble 😅


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Ready to rumble 😅
> 
> View attachment 2487025


Didn't know there's such thing as a triple-socket M13A.... :-D


----------



## roooo

IronAge said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0705.CAP
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fix oc panel 80-port function
> improve system performance


Thanks, will try that one...


----------



## Arni90

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I saw a 5950x hit 300fps in this game. Hows about 11900k?
> View attachment 2487010


Quite a bit worse:









That's at 5.1 GHz all cores, then 5-6 cores at 5.2 GHz, up to 5.4 GHz for 2 cores.
And 3866 MHz 14-14-28 with tRFC at 220


----------



## Esenel

Entering the ring now as well.
Thanks @cstkl1 ;-)

*Benching the sticks 2x8GB B-Die:*









*And stable in HCI 200% & GSAT 1h*


----------



## bscool

@Esenel what mem kit is that?


----------



## bscool

Anyone know of a better place to buy z590 Apex https://www.computeruniverse.net/de/asus-rog-maximus-xiii-apex it is for a "friend"  He is in the US.


----------



## morph.

What am I missing?
So I tried for a few hours last night to post 4533/4400/4233 (all timings on auto) and none of those wanted to post other than 4000.... I even ramped up SA/IOM to 1.4v dram on 1.5v

The same kit/board easily ran 4400 on my 10850k...









On another note managed to tighten my 3733 g1 a fraction more:


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> What am I missing?
> So I tried for a few hours last night to post 4533/4400/4233 (all timings on auto) and none of those wanted to post other than 4000.... I even ramped up SA/IOM to 1.4v dram on 1.5v
> 
> The same kit/board easily ran 4400 on my 10850k...
> View attachment 2487106
> 
> 
> On another note managed to tighten my 3733 g1 a fraction more:
> View attachment 2487105


Are you swapping chips in the same board?
Try a deep cmos clear with the power unplugged/PSU shut off in the back (hold down the clear cmos button for 30 seconds) and then go directly from there.
This usually fixes strange issues.


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> Are you swapping chips in the same board?
> Try a deep cmos clear with the power unplugged/PSU shut off in the back (hold down the clear cmos button for 30 seconds) and then go directly from there.
> This usually fixes strange issues.


Yeah same M12F board, Oh really maybe a germlin has hidden inside eh. I'll do that after pulling my loop apart for a new distro plate and a 3rd 360 radiator so probably a couple weeks away till I'm motivated/have enough time to do it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Gear 1, 3600 MHz, 14-15-15-35-260 VDimm=1.45V. N:1 mode=2


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

If you want to run real 1T, set N:1 mode to 1. Directly set 1T in BIOS or set N:1 mode to 2 or 3 will jump some back to back write command cycles.


----------



## Arni90

encrypted11 said:


> They should all do 5.1GHz all core at reasonable voltages at least. Considering the factory fused ratios from Intel are all 51 with the exception of the 2 favored cores at 53. (With 1 to 8 core active ratio going at 48-53 for TDP reasons).


I dare anyone in this thread to pass Linpack Xtreme 8GB at 5.1 GHz and no AVX512 offset. With residuals properly aligning, and no throttling.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> If you want to run real 1T, set N:1 mode to 1. Directly set 1T in BIOS or set N:1 mode to 2 or 3 will jump some back to back write command cycles.


looks like 1t 3600 > 2t 3733 

were you able to run 14 flat or even cl13 at 3600?


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> for apex afaik.. its just some bdie fixing etc...
> afaik
> and some improvement on SR/DR bdie...
> 4600C18 boots easy on that bios


4600c18 for bdie DR too?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> looks like 1t 3600 > 2t 3733
> 
> were you able to run 14 flat or even cl13 at 3600?


No problem with higher vdimm for c13. I need to control dimm temp without active coolings and with an air cooled 3080, so increase tRCD for a better temp tolerance.


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> 4600c18 for bdie DR too?


was talking about dr bro. 

sr ppl are flying 4800-5066


----------



## Esenel

bscool said:


> @Esenel what mem kit is that?


One of those.


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> was talking about dr bro.
> 
> sr ppl are flying 4800-5066


 4533c18 does not boot for me. 4266 no problems though 

Anything I have to set in bios to get it booted?


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> 4533c18 does not boot for me. 4266 no problems though
> 
> Anything I have to set in bios to get it booted?


have u tried c17


----------



## Arni90

So I asked this question to @cstkl1 a couple of days ago:


Arni90 said:


> @cstkl1 : which games benefit from running really high speed DJR kits? Compared to DR B-die at 3733 or 3866 that is.


And I got an answer:



cstkl1 said:


> F1 2020, csgo, vermintide 2,


Now, I didn't try CS:GO (I'm really not familiar enough with the needed launch commands of that game), but I did test the integrated benchmark in F1 2020 and Vermintide 2 with DR Bdie @ 3866 MHz and SR DJR @ 5066 MHz. Anyone want to make predictions about which setup performed best?



Spoiler: DJR



Vermintide 2








F1 2020 (The game was booted at High settings, but I tried to see which other presets were possible, and ran the benchmark without restarting the game)












Spoiler: B-die



Vermintide 2








F1 2020












Spoiler: F1 2020 settings































I have also tested other games with similar results, so if you have 2x16GB of B-die there's no reason to even consider getting your hands on DJR.
And if you want the best performance possible, you should probably also consider DR B-die.

I have a M13 Apex coming, which might allow me to run the SR DJR kit a bit faster, but I seriously doubt it will improve the results to such a degree that DJR beats out DR Bdie for gaming.

If you want to push memory frequency for big numbers on the other hand, DJR is a lot of fun.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## cstkl1

new bios/work tool etc.. 0706 for asus maximus z590s






ROG Maximus XIII Apex


Reserved for more Stuff/Guides. --- There quite a few significant changes, however and below is a list that compares traditional expectations vs actual behavior of RKL: Traditional Expectations Actual RKL Behavior Memory and controller can only run in synch Memory and controller can run 1:1 or 1:...



community.hwbot.org


----------



## ldt

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2487162


really nice results, By the way, please share me this BIOS version 0705 . Thank you in advance!


----------



## cstkl1

ldt said:


> really nice results, By the way, please share me this BIOS version 0705 . Thank you in advance!


hwbot link above bro. 0706..


----------



## roooo

ldt said:


> really nice results, By the way, please share me this BIOS version 0705 . Thank you in advance!


0705 for M13A is here: ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0705.CAP
0706 for M13A see cstkl1's above post.


----------



## shamino1978

Some refinements to gear 1 , in particular cmd rate 1t mode , plc check if helps!!
I use 1.45v io mem and 1.6v SA for 3866 1t just to rule out voltages
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0062.rar
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0062.rar


----------



## roooo

shamino1978 said:


> Some refinements to gear 1 , in particular cmd rate 1t mode , plc check if helps!!
> I use 1.45v io mem and 1.6v SA for 3866 1t just to rule out voltages
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0062.rar
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0062.rar


Um...thanks a lot - are that the same as the 0706 linked above?


----------



## shamino1978

based on that but newer


----------



## domdtxdissar

Arni90 said:


> So I asked this question to @cstkl1 a couple of days ago:
> 
> And I got an answer:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I didn't try CS:GO (I'm really not familiar enough with the needed launch commands of that game), but I did test the integrated benchmark in F1 2020 and Vermintide 2 with DR Bdie @ 3866 MHz and SR DJR @ 5066 MHz. Anyone want to make predictions about which setup performed best?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DJR
> 
> 
> 
> Vermintide 2
> View attachment 2487152
> 
> 
> F1 2020 (The game was booted at High settings, but I tried to see which other presets were possible, and ran the benchmark without restarting the game)
> View attachment 2487154
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: B-die
> 
> 
> 
> Vermintide 2
> View attachment 2487153
> 
> 
> F1 2020
> View attachment 2487155
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: F1 2020 settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2487156
> 
> View attachment 2487157
> 
> View attachment 2487158
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have also tested other games with similar results, so if you have 2x16GB of B-die there's no reason to even consider getting your hands on DJR.
> And if you want the best performance possible, you should probably also consider DR B-die.
> 
> I have a M13 Apex coming, which might allow me to run the SR DJR kit a bit faster, but I seriously doubt it will improve the results to such a degree that DJR beats out DR Bdie for gaming.
> 
> If you want to push memory frequency for big numbers on the other hand, DJR is a lot of fun.


Fear not, cstkl1 will find something wrong with your DJR timings and/or you are running too slow.. According to him gear2 DJR is fastest, you only need to run it at 5800 MT/s or above to outperform bdie gear1 at 3866


----------



## kalston

shamino1978 said:


> Some refinements to gear 1 , in particular cmd rate 1t mode , plc check if helps!!
> I use 1.45v io mem and 1.6v SA for 3866 1t just to rule out voltages
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0062.rar
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0062.rar


So those voltages were for testing but are probably not recommended for long term use? I am struggling to find good information on how high I can safely push voltages for long term use with z590 and RKL.


----------



## shamino1978

kalston said:


> So those voltages were for testing but are probably not recommended for long term use? I am struggling to find good information on how high I can safely push voltages for long term use with z590 and RKL.


good luck on that, number one question nobody wants to answer 
at least nobody legit 
who would you trust to give an authoritative reply on that?


----------



## bscool

domdtxdissar said:


> Fear not, cstkl1 will find something wrong with your DJR timings and/or you are running too slow.. According to him gear2 DJR is fastest, you only need to run it at 5800 MT/s or above to outperform bdie gear1 at 3866


I think @cstkl1 is using dual rank DJR and dual ranks pretty much always perform better as far as I know. So to really compare more apples to apples it should have been dual rank DJR, not? Since the b die compared against was dual rank.

Not knocking the comparison just saying. Still good info for someone that has single rank DJR so they know what to expect going to dual rank b die or the other way around.


----------



## Arni90

shamino1978 said:


> good luck on that, number one question nobody wants to answer
> at least nobody legit
> who would you trust to give an authoritative reply on that?


I assume the BIOS doesn't push those voltages if someone simply enables XMP 3866 MHz?
And doesn't Intel give motherboard/BIOS makers some guidelines on where to stop?


----------



## shamino1978

Arni90 said:


> I assume the BIOS doesn't push those voltages if someone simply enables XMP 3866 MHz?
> And doesn't Intel give motherboard/BIOS makers some guidelines on where to stop?


no
you only get the standard reply:
"any adjustments outside of spec = take your own risk"


----------



## kalston

As I feared


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I think @cstkl1 is using dual rank DJR and dual ranks pretty much always perform better as far as I know. So to really compare more apples to apples it should have been dual rank DJR, not? Since the b die compared against was dual rank.
> 
> Not knocking the comparison just saying. Still good info for someone that has single rank DJR so they know what to expect going to dual rank b die or the other way around.


???
i did do sr djr 5333c20 tight. 

just a avg kit usd 100..


----------



## Arni90

shamino1978 said:


> no
> you only get the standard reply:
> "any adjustments outside of spec = take your own risk"


Such a silly attitude, they have the models at hand.

Does tRFC2 and tRFC4 actually do anything once we have set the main tRFC?


----------



## roooo

Arni90 said:


> I assume the BIOS doesn't push those voltages if someone simply enables XMP 3866 MHz?


I did not try 3866 yet, but at least VCCIO Mem OC on Auto will set shy of 1.5V with 4800C18 on M13A according to BIOS.


----------



## menko2

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Just want to say that I haven't had a single crash on this CPU, ever. Coming from a 5600x/5800x/5900x that's a huge deal. I endlessly tried to figure out how to keep Cold War from crashing, nothing I did ever stopped the problem. I've now played for hours on end without issue. Also, the WHEA errors can go right to hell lol. Audio issues, intermittent USB connectivity issues, terrible all around. TBF, I haven't tried the latest AGESA, but I'm not hopeful that actually solved any problems. Sure, Zen 3 or CML might have some better performance in some instances. But I can't get over how stable this platform has been for me. I'm likely going to keep this setup until DDR5 matures, likely 4 years or more.
> 
> I know @Falkentyne and @cstkl1 have already said this, but I just want to reiterate that it really is a breath of fresh air not having a system that crashes randomly.


Zen 3 was terrible when I tested it. Even with the best motherboard and also two different CPUs (5800x and 5900x).

My 10900k didn't give me any problem. It's actually easy to overclock and manage ram, voltages,... obviously is matured. 

Did you have problems with cml?


----------



## shamino1978

Does tRFC2 and tRFC4 actually do anything once we have set the main tRFC?
[/QUOTE]
i dont think so, least not on this platform


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> ???
> i did do sr djr 5333c20 tight.
> 
> just a avg kit usd 100..


The Klevv Bolt XR Kit ?


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> The Klevv Bolt XR Kit ?


yup. 4kc19. avg kit.


----------



## i9forever

Arni90 said:


> So I asked this question to @cstkl1 a couple of days ago:
> 
> And I got an answer:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I didn't try CS:GO (I'm really not familiar enough with the needed launch commands of that game), but I did test the integrated benchmark in F1 2020 and Vermintide 2 with DR Bdie @ 3866 MHz and SR DJR @ 5066 MHz. Anyone want to make predictions about which setup performed best?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DJR
> 
> 
> 
> Vermintide 2
> View attachment 2487152
> 
> 
> F1 2020 (The game was booted at High settings, but I tried to see which other presets were possible, and ran the benchmark without restarting the game)
> View attachment 2487154
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: B-die
> 
> 
> 
> Vermintide 2
> View attachment 2487153
> 
> 
> F1 2020
> View attachment 2487155
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: F1 2020 settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2487156
> 
> View attachment 2487157
> 
> View attachment 2487158
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have also tested other games with similar results, so if you have 2x16GB of B-die there's no reason to even consider getting your hands on DJR.
> And if you want the best performance possible, you should probably also consider DR B-die.
> 
> I have a M13 Apex coming, which might allow me to run the SR DJR kit a bit faster, but I seriously doubt it will improve the results to such a degree that DJR beats out DR Bdie for gaming.
> 
> If you want to push memory frequency for big numbers on the other hand, DJR is a lot of fun.


Hmm I don´t have any of that games, hovewer according to my own benchmarks of SOTR, Watch Dogs Legion and Resident Evil 6, i tested all 3 games at 1280*720, lowest possible graphics details, with 3733 14-15-15-35, 4266 19-19-19-39 and 4800 19-26-26-46. Rest of the timings was as tight as possible to be rock stable. Couldn´t boot at 3866 no matter of timings nor voltages. 4800 wins, followed by 3733, 4266 was slowest. 4800 is DJR 2* 8GB, 3733 + 4266 Bdie 2* 8GB, so both single rank. I want to do more tests at 5066 with DJR, which I finally tuned to stable tight timings during yesterday, but Shamino posted the new BIOS 0706 today and I am gonna rather play with the new BIOS instead.


----------



## Lownage

Still not able to Boot bdie DR 4533 c17/18
Bios 0706 on MA13.


----------



## bscool

Lownage said:


> Still not able to Boot bdie DR 4533 c17/18
> Bios 0706 on MA13.


Maybe your kit just cant do it or IMC? Maybe try 1 stick at a time to see if one stick is weaker? 

I was booting and benching with 4533c18 with the z490 Apex and 11900k. I didn't mess with it much and couldn't it stable with memtest @4533 with 2x16. I have been messing with 2x8 b die mostly. Will go back to 2x16 soon.


----------



## roooo

Lownage said:


> Still not able to Boot bdie DR 4533 c17/18
> Bios 0706 on MA13.


Did you also try Shamino's special sauce (see above)?
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0062.rar
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0062.rar


----------



## shamino1978

roooo said:


> Did you also try Shamino's special sauce (see above)?
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0062.rar
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0062.rar


thats really just geared towards gear 1


----------



## roooo

shamino1978 said:


> thats really just geared towards gear 1


Ah ok I see...thanks for the pointer.


----------



## Lownage

Since many people can´t boot higher than 4266 (DR Bdie on MA13), I don´t think its the IMC or the memory sticks. I could be wrong though...


----------



## bscool

Lownage said:


> Since many people can´t boot higher than 4266 (DR Bdie on MA13), I don´t think its the IMC or the memory sticks. I could be wrong though...


I didn't realize that many people even had the MA13. I had only seen a couple of people post having them.


It is strange that I can boot 4533 with MA12 and MA13 cant for many? Doesn't make sense to me. I saw @Nizzen post dual ranks @4533 on MA12 also.

Edit: I just put a 4226c17 kit in the MA12 with 11900k and it wont boot 4533, just boots loops. I put in a 3600c14 neo kit and it boots but it very unstable. I don't remember what settings I had in last time with the Neo kit but I could run Aida64. Now it was so unstable just trying to take a screenshot it would crash. Not in the mood to mess with it right now.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

menko2 said:


> Zen 3 was terrible when I tested it. Even with the best motherboard and also two different CPUs (5800x and 5900x).
> 
> My 10900k didn't give me any problem. It's actually easy to overclock and manage ram, voltages,... obviously is matured.
> 
> Did you have problems with cml?


The problem I had with CML is I couldn't get stability that I was comfortable with. Unless I used an insane amount of voltage, I would get WHEAs or LOL cache errors, and I wasn't even aware of the parity errors at the time. Some projects I run can take days or even more than a week to finish running 24/7, so stability in these workloads is crucial. And I would get problems even running at stock BTW.

Another reason why I think the comparison that Faris dude did was a little.... Unfair, to say the least. Running 5.4 lolhertz on the 10900k, no way in heck that's actually stable. Disabling HT on both samples even though the 11900k can absolutely be stable with it enabled and without insane voltages.... Different memory configuration etc. Etc. If you don't want an 11900k, that's just fine. But there are some pretty good reasons to consider one IMO.


----------



## napata

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> The problem I had with CML is I couldn't get stability that I was comfortable with. Unless I used an insane amount of voltage, I would get WHEAs or LOL cache errors, and I wasn't even aware of the parity errors at the time. Some projects I run can take days or even more than a week to finish running 24/7, so stability in these workloads is crucial. And I would get problems even running at stock BTW.
> 
> Another reason why I think the comparison that Faris dude did was a little.... Unfair, to say the least. Running 5.4 lolhertz on the 10900k, no way in heck that's actually stable. Disabling HT on both samples even though the 11900k can absolutely be stable with it enabled and without insane voltages.... Different memory configuration etc. Etc. If you don't want an 11900k, that's just fine. But there are some pretty good reasons to consider one IMO.


If he tested with a 5.3 ghz 10900k the conclusion wouldn't change. The point wasn't to compare them 1:1 but both at their most. That's why he used a different memory configuration. There are good reasons to consider a 11900k but not from a performance perspective.

I thought his test was interesting in showing that you probably should just stick with Gear 1 at this point in time.


----------



## mount333

i9forever said:


> Hmm I don´t have any of that games, hovewer according to my own benchmarks of SOTR, Watch Dogs Legion and Resident Evil 6, i tested all 3 games at 1280*720, lowest possible graphics details, with 3733 14-15-15-35, 4266 19-19-19-39 and 4800 19-26-26-46. Rest of the timings was as tight as possible to be rock stable. Couldn´t boot at 3866 no matter of timings nor voltages. 4800 wins, followed by 3733, 4266 was slowest. 4800 is DJR 2* 8GB, 3733 + 4266 Bdie 2* 8GB, so both single rank. I want to do more tests at 5066 with DJR, which I finally tuned to stable tight timings during yesterday, but Shamino posted the new BIOS 0706 today and I am gonna rather play with the new BIOS instead.


When possible, submit these results here. It is increasingly difficult to obtain valid RKL-S results. 

Thanks


----------



## Arni90

i9forever said:


> Hmm I don´t have any of that games, hovewer according to my own benchmarks of SOTR, Watch Dogs Legion and Resident Evil 6, i tested all 3 games at 1280*720, lowest possible graphics details, with 3733 14-15-15-35, 4266 19-19-19-39 and 4800 19-26-26-46. Rest of the timings was as tight as possible to be rock stable. Couldn´t boot at 3866 no matter of timings nor voltages. 4800 wins, followed by 3733, 4266 was slowest. 4800 is DJR 2* 8GB, 3733 + 4266 Bdie 2* 8GB, so both single rank. I want to do more tests at 5066 with DJR, which I finally tuned to stable tight timings during yesterday, but Shamino posted the new BIOS 0706 today and I am gonna rather play with the new BIOS instead.


It's absolutely possible my results aren't representative for everyone, or that I made some mistake with subtimings.
And it's absolutely possible DJR SR beats B-die SR, but that's why we should test this (and not rely on someone else to tell us their viewpoint).


----------



## 2500k_2

i9forever said:


> Hmm I don´t have any of that games, hovewer according to my own benchmarks of SOTR, Watch Dogs Legion and Resident Evil 6, i tested all 3 games at 1280*720, lowest possible graphics details, with 3733 14-15-15-35, 4266 19-19-19-39 and 4800 19-26-26-46. Rest of the timings was as tight as possible to be rock stable. Couldn´t boot at 3866 no matter of timings nor voltages. 4800 wins, followed by 3733, 4266 was slowest. 4800 is DJR 2* 8GB, 3733 + 4266 Bdie 2* 8GB, so both single rank. I want to do more tests at 5066 with DJR, which I finally tuned to stable tight timings during yesterday, but Shamino posted the new BIOS 0706 today and I am gonna rather play with the new BIOS instead.


A large number of people are waiting for the publication of such tests to know at what frequency *gear 2* begins to defeat *Gear1*. Interested in _*3733 dr bdie Gear1*_ vs _*Gear2 4400- 4533 dr bdie*_ vs _*Gear2 5066- 5200 dr djr*_ vs _*Gear 2 5600 sr djr*_. If you have time then spend them and upload the results here. I asked @cstkl1 to do them, but he says he doesn't have time for them. I am interested in exactly those games where there is a repeatable benchmark - for example, *Shadow of the Tomb Raider*, *Assassin's Creed Valhalla*, *Horizon Zero Dawn* or others (720 p min presset).
If you have time, you will give the answers that many are waiting for. Unfortunately, most reviewers were unable to get good results in gear 2 mode, so they ignored it. Thanks in advance.


----------



## chibi

Wow pricing on new Apex XIII is crazy in Canada. z490 has one left at $499 CAD. z590 Apex showing price of $777 CAD!


----------



## IronAge

__





HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 於 MSI Z590 Tomahawk WiFi 測試


HyperX Predator DDR4 系列是屬於高效能取向，目前官網上有市售的版本最高為 DDR4 4800MHz 的時脈，不過鑒於現在平台以及記憶體顆粒對於高時脈支援越來越簡單輕鬆，最近應該會推出 DDR4 5000MHz 或以上的版本。 HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 還未上市，手上這組是 HyperX 所提供的樣品，從 SPD 上看來有可能是 DDR4 4800MHz 的挑選版，也就是體質比較好能穩跑 5000 的版本。 收到時並沒有包裝，這組 HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 的散熱片與目前...




coolaler.com





DJR on a mediocre MSI Mobo


----------



## IronAge

chibi said:


> Wow pricing on new Apex XIII is crazy in Canada. z490 has one left at $499 CAD. z590 Apex showing price of $777 CAD!


Best price for M13A in germany is about $699 CAD and that includes 19% VAT, so $499 CAD for Z490 M12A looks like a steal.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> A large number of people are waiting for the publication of such tests to know at what frequency *gear 2* begins to defeat *Gear1*. Interested in _*3733 dr bdie Gear1*_ vs _*Gear2 4400- 4533 dr bdie*_ vs _*Gear2 5066- 5200 dr djr*_ vs _*Gear 2 5600 sr djr*_. If you have time then spend them and upload the results here. I asked @cstkl1 to do them, but he says he doesn't have time for them. I am interested in exactly those games where there is a repeatable benchmark - for example, *Shadow of the Tomb Raider*, *Assassin's Creed Valhalla*, *Horizon Zero Dawn* or others (720 p min presset).
> If you have time, you will give the answers that many are waiting for. Unfortunately, most reviewers were unable to get good results in gear 2 mode, so they ignored it. Thanks in advance.


its not that. all the rams are still being tested
new bios, new ucode, new ram tuning, new problems.

so its not settled yet. its not a matter of plug and play and run stupid timings and make excuses just for gaming stable.

just look at bios 062 sham posted yesterday is fantastic. but comes with its own issues.

what you are thinking is everything is already finalized.. its not on the high clock. 

still testing rams. sr/dr/bdie/djr.. diff speed/timings etc.

so literally no time to go do what you asked. and i am rushing. vermintide 2 dlc out today.

also two-three ppl doesnt constitute "Many"

dont be influenced by the few who keep using "we", "many" . when they are just trashy ppl.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 於 MSI Z590 Tomahawk WiFi 測試
> 
> 
> HyperX Predator DDR4 系列是屬於高效能取向，目前官網上有市售的版本最高為 DDR4 4800MHz 的時脈，不過鑒於現在平台以及記憶體顆粒對於高時脈支援越來越簡單輕鬆，最近應該會推出 DDR4 5000MHz 或以上的版本。 HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 還未上市，手上這組是 HyperX 所提供的樣品，從 SPD 上看來有可能是 DDR4 4800MHz 的挑選版，也就是體質比較好能穩跑 5000 的版本。 收到時並沒有包裝，這組 HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 的散熱片與目前...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coolaler.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DJR on a mediocre MSI Mobo


asus b560 strix qvl validated 5066 bro.






ROG STRIX B560-I GAMING WIFI | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Malaysia


ROG STRIX B560-I GAMING WIFI motherboard features solid power design, comprehensive cooling controls, PCIe® 4.0, WiFi 6, Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation and cyberpunk-inspired aesthetics



rog.asus.com


----------



## Arni90

IronAge said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 於 MSI Z590 Tomahawk WiFi 測試
> 
> 
> HyperX Predator DDR4 系列是屬於高效能取向，目前官網上有市售的版本最高為 DDR4 4800MHz 的時脈，不過鑒於現在平台以及記憶體顆粒對於高時脈支援越來越簡單輕鬆，最近應該會推出 DDR4 5000MHz 或以上的版本。 HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 還未上市，手上這組是 HyperX 所提供的樣品，從 SPD 上看來有可能是 DDR4 4800MHz 的挑選版，也就是體質比較好能穩跑 5000 的版本。 收到時並沒有包裝，這組 HyperX Predator DDR4 5000MHz 8GBx2 的散熱片與目前...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coolaler.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DJR on a mediocre MSI Mobo


I don't know if I'd call a motherboard with DDR4-5600 on the QVL list as mediocre.





MAG Z590 TOMAHAWK WIFI


Powered by Intel 11th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG Z590 TOMAHAWK WIFI is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr, USB 3.2




www.msi.com


----------



## D-EJ915

SoldierRBT said:


> Anyone having issues 11900K + Z490 Apex? Computer reboots randomly while playing games even with defaults BIOS settings. Swapped to 10900K 4600C17 no issues. Using latest BIOS 2103 (reboots also happened on 2102).


Mine does this with certain bios on 10900k, it seems to be a bios/board issue, my z490 extreme doesn't exhibit this at all.


----------



## techenth

Does the new Apex have any mem oc advantage over the old one if you're using a 10900k?


----------



## cstkl1

👍


----------



## tomwarren

shamino1978 said:


> thats really just geared towards gear 1


Any new BIOS updates for ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO beyond the 0704 release?


----------



## YaqY

tomwarren said:


> Any new BIOS updates for ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO beyond the 0704 release?








ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0706.7z







drive.google.com


----------



## YaqY

techenth said:


> Does the new Apex have any mem oc advantage over the old one if you're using a 10900k?


Atleast on dual rank bdie i wouldn't switch from the M12A to the M13A, seems like at the moment that the M13A isn't optimised for dual rank bdie.


----------



## Falkentyne

tomwarren said:


> Any new BIOS updates for ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO beyond the 0704 release?








ROG Maximus XIII Apex


Reserved for more Stuff/Guides. --- There quite a few significant changes, however and below is a list that compares traditional expectations vs actual behavior of RKL: Traditional Expectations Actual RKL Behavior Memory and controller can only run in synch Memory and controller can run 1:1 or 1:...



community.hwbot.org





Someone posted an XOC bios for the Hero somewhere too. I think it was on hwbot discord or something.
I don't think you want that one.


----------



## Falkentyne

techenth said:


> Does the new Apex have any mem oc advantage over the old one if you're using a 10900k?


I got the exact same speeds/freq and was able to use the exact same skews and timings on M12E and M13E with a 10900k.
So I assume that would probably also apply to the M13A vs E, if the A is simply a 2 dimm version of the E, but without iGPU support.
Only difference was that amps at load seemed to be lower at the exact same load vcore during a prime95 FMA3 test. I guess because of the ASP->Intersil change.
You may end up slightly more stable at the same load vcore due to better transient response.


----------



## cstkl1

apex bios 062
easy 3866c14 stable. 

no problem.


----------



## cstkl1

ldt said:


> really nice results, By the way, please share me this BIOS version 0705 . Thank you in advance!


use 062 

so far 
gear 1 3866c14 damn easy on this bios
gear 2 4400c16 easy


----------



## bscool

Looks like NE has some new kits out [email protected] G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA - Newegg.com


----------



## menko2

shamino1978 said:


> thats really just geared towards gear 1


For the Hero XIII which bios is the more stable for 10900k? I'm going to wait a bit until bios for 11900k matures. Too much work now. 

I'm still in the very first BIOS in Asus Website.


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> For the Hero XIII which bios is the more stable for 10900k? I'm going to wait a bit until bios for 11900k matures. Too much work now.
> 
> I'm still in the very first BIOS in Asus Website.


Try for yourself is the best. There are just too many different combination of systems to have "one bios is the best"


----------



## cstkl1

sp88 retail. 
testing. 3866c14 easy. so how much BS ppl gonna keep spouting its a limit.. or i am just twice lucky??


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> sp88 retail.
> testing. 3866c14 easy. so how much BS ppl gonna keep spouting its a limit.. or i am just twice lucky??


I spoke with siliconlottery and their highest SP they have tested is 95 so sp88 is a good one. 

They even charge 50$ more if you want the sp95 chip on top of their price for the highest binned 11900k. 

No delid option for them yet.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> I spoke with siliconlottery and their highest SP they have tested is 95 so sp88 is a good one.
> 
> They even charge 50$ more if you want the sp95 chip on top of their price for the highest binned 11900k.
> 
> No delid option for them yet.


theres so many here bro high sp 9x


----------



## cstkl1

batch v109G875


----------



## IronAge

Arni90 said:


> I don't know if I'd call a motherboard with DDR4-5600 on the QVL list as mediocre.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MAG Z590 TOMAHAWK WIFI
> 
> 
> Powered by Intel 11th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG Z590 TOMAHAWK WIFI is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr, USB 3.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com


Well its considered mediocre, it costs like 50% of the Apex/Hero and runs not that bad after all, thats why i posted the link to the results.

One of the most mentoined arguments versus Intel CML/RKL is the high costs for Z Chipset series motherboards.

Proven wrong i guess, when even a B560 based Boards can overclock memory and cpu.


----------



## Spiriva

YaqY said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0706.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Do you know if there are any release notes or such?


----------



## cstkl1

Spiriva said:


> Do you know if there are any release notes or such?


should be

"improved stability / performance" 

lol as vague as anybody can guess. . all these are test bios.


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> 👍


Sets AVX offset of minus 7 (seven) @4:06. _facepalm_
Also using 4266 Gear 2, which will perform (substantially) worse than 3733 Gear 1... I think he simply chases clicks and likes with high clock numbers.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> should be
> 
> "improved stability / performance"
> 
> lol as vague as anybody can guess. . all these are test bios.


Do you think rocket lake will be enough for gaming when the next gen GPUs comes out in 2022? 

10900k provably not because it is limited with PCIe3.


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> Sets AVX offset of minus 7 (seven) @4:06. _facepalm_
> Also using 4266 Gear 2, which will perform (substantially) worse than 3733 Gear 1... I think he simply chases clicks and likes with high clock numbers.


but he saves alot of time 
when ppl starts a thread wondering
1. how v/f works
2. octvb
3. xmp

literally like 50% on the threads ppl open to wonder about things can just point to his youtube channel.


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Do you think rocket lake will be enough for gaming when the next gen GPUs comes out in 2022?
> 
> 10900k provably not because it is limited with PCIe3.


i am like da last person you should ask that question bro. i am always for da NOW. rkl solved the headache i had with cml on parity


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> but he saves alot of time
> when ppl starts a thread wondering
> 1. how v/f works
> 2. octvb
> 3. xmp
> 
> literally like 50% on the threads ppl open to wonder about things can just point to his youtube channel.


Point them to a youtube channel so that they can blindly follow a guide that they don't understand, which gives them "big numbers", but worse real-life (gaming) performance than stock settings. How very helpful.


----------



## CallMeODZ

fray_bentos said:


> Point them to a youtube channel so that they can blindly follow a guide that they don't understand, which gives them "big numbers", but worse real-life (gaming) performance than stock settings. How very helpful.



^ 90% of ryzen users


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> Point them to a youtube channel so that they can blindly follow a guide that they don't understand, which gives them "big numbers", but worse real-life (gaming) performance than stock settings. How very helpful.


that. ya.
i dont know why he still on avx offset . especially when rkl has other means to throttle down.
but thats also no diff than ppl using that 1usmus ryzen dram calculator. 


i find his vids on tech explanation good.


----------



## bscool

Here is a screenshot showing z490 Apex running dual rank b die at 4533. Loose timings. I am not going to spend much time on it as I don't see any hope of getting it stable with this bios

Edit: Tried the same setting with gskill 4266c17 kit and it will not boot 4533. Weird because that kit with 10700k and 10850k did 4533c16. So for some reason with the 11900k it likes the neo kit better. even at lower clocks the 4266c17 is not as good with 11900k. Unless they got damage or something switching them in and out. Tried cleaning contact with alcohol and blowing out mem slots.








.


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> that. ya.
> i dont know why he still on avx offset . especially when rkl has other means to throttle down.
> but thats also no diff than ppl using that 1usmus ryzen dram calculator.
> 
> 
> i find his vids on tech explanation good.


I agree that he knows his stuff and explains it well, but these AVX offsets indicate to me it is just for the high clocks = clicks.


----------



## frantatech

DJR on RKL is fun  Guess I can consider this settings as stable. Now I am tempted to go to 5066, perhaps 5333. This is single rank with two 8GB sticks btw.


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> I agree that he knows his stuff and explains it well, but these AVX offsets indicate to me it is just for the high clocks = clicks.


ya. he was doing that on cml also. 
thats like so few years ago when ppl didnt know any bettet. 
and he runs avx stress test on prime.


----------



## Spiriva

cstkl1 said:


> should be
> 
> "improved stability / performance"
> 
> lol as vague as anybody can guess. . all these are test bios.


Haha true that  
I flashed this bios (0706) and it seem to be working fine, atleast they didnt break anything from 0704


----------



## Esenel

@shamino1978 
It seems that bios 0706 creates more heat on the cores compared to 0705 and froze my pc.

5.2GHz Allcore LLC6 1.44V in bios having 1.35V during load in CB20.

On bios 0705 sub 89°C.
On bios 0706 peaked to 97°C before freezing.

Hope this helps in some way.

0706 didn't give me any advantage in booting higher than 4800MHz RAM wise with Samsung B-Die SR, which is also working with bios 0705.

Cheers


----------



## roooo

Esenel said:


> @shamino1978
> 0706 didn't give me any advantage in booting higher than 4800MHz RAM wise with Samsung B-Die SR, which is also working with bios 0705.


@shamino1978 
Just chiming in: Same with 2xF4-4600C18-8GTZR (B-Die SR) on M13A and 11900K - won't post any higher than 3866 Gear1 and 4800 Gear2 with 0706/0062 vs. 0704.


----------



## bscool

Seems weird that z490 Apex can boot and run higher mem speeds than z590 Apex. My guess is it is coming down to the sticks. I have some that will not boot past 4800 and other that I have ran 5333 with single rank b die. One thing I did notice though comparing my z490 Adia64 score to those with z590 Apex is the z590 Apex copy is around 3500 higher than what I get(when using same timings). It doesn't seem like round trip latency works in gear 2 on z490 Apex.


----------



## IronAge

fray_bentos said:


> Point them to a youtube channel so that they can blindly follow a guide that they don't understand, which gives them "big numbers", but worse real-life (gaming) performance than stock settings. How very helpful.


there is no such thing as a free meal.

for good Gear1 numbers it needs manual tweaking, using/trying different beta bioses etc.

for some people it is way easier to buy a high binned kit and load XMP and there you go with gear2 and high bandwidth in AIDA.


----------



## IronAge

if intel releases a 10 core Rocket Lake without iGPU, maybe call it Extreme Edition, that would make many people happy.

the iGPU and 8 core is mainly there because the OEMs demand it.


----------



## cstkl1

hmm found something off retail
on certain bios with bdie dr.



bscool said:


> Seems weird that z490 Apex can boot and run higher mem speeds than z590 Apex. My guess is it is coming down to the sticks. I have some that will not boot past 4800 and other that I have ran 5333 with single rank b die. One thing I did notice though comparing my z490 Adia64 score to those with z590 Apex is the z590 Apex copy is around 3500 higher than what I get(when using same timings). It doesn't seem like round trip latency works in gear 2 on z490 Apex.


use algo round trip latency for mrc to reduce . it will stick since no iol. no deviation unless big change in voltage/subs.

i am guessing you are on ucode 24??


----------



## Arni90

IronAge said:


> if intel releases a 10 core Rocket Lake without iGPU, maybe call it Extreme Edition, that would make many people happy.
> 
> the iGPU and 8 core is mainly there because the OEMs demand it.


I'd personally prefer getting a Tiger Lake-H chip on LGA1200. Dual ring bus, and improved caches would probably be a massive boon for gaming performance.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> use algo round trip latency for mrc to reduce . it will stick since no iol. no deviation unless big change in voltage/subs.


wat

I'm serious, what are you even trying to say here?


----------



## fray_bentos

IronAge said:


> if intel releases a 10 core Rocket Lake without iGPU, maybe call it Extreme Edition, that would make many people happy.
> 
> the iGPU and 8 core is mainly there because the OEMs demand it.


Would the extreme stand for "extreme latency"? Making the ring larger by using space used for the iGPU would increase latency, which is already poor with the current design. In addition to huge power consumption, this is likely why RKL is stuck on 8 cores. Also pointless, given that the hopefully much superior 12th Gen is coming out in the very near future. 11th Gen is set to be a very short generation. Remember 7th gen?


----------



## IronAge

Arni90 said:


> I'd personally prefer getting a Tiger Lake-H chip on LGA1200. Dual ring bus, and improved caches would probably be a massive boon for gaming performance.


Alder Lake production will begin in week 35 due to a new leaked roadmap.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382966601654276100


----------



## IronAge

fray_bentos said:


> Would the extreme stand for "extreme latency"? Making the ring larger by using space used for the iGPU would increase latency, which is already poor with the current design.


As long as it has much better latency than AMD Ryzen everything is fine.  

i would trade +10ns for two additional cores, of course this will not happen.


----------



## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> Would the extreme stand for "extreme latency"? Making the ring larger by using space used for the iGPU would increase latency, which is already poor with the current design. In addition to huge power consumption, this is likely why RKL is stuck on 8 cores. Also pointless, given that the hopefully much superior 12th Gen is coming out in the very near future. 11th Gen is set to be a very short generation. Remember 7th gen?


alderlake really curious how the small/big core will work. isnt affinity etc scheduled by windows. 

but from all info.. alderlake looks like will go back to fivr.


----------



## aznguyen316

bscool said:


> Looks like NE has some new kits out [email protected] G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GVKA - Newegg.com


Thanks for the link. 

Comparing to the 4266C17-18-18-38 @1.5V but same price the new kit you posted should be better? Potentially for overclocking headroom. 

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB NewEgg link


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Comparing to the 4266C17-18-18-38 @1.5V but same price the new kit you posted should be better? Potentially for overclocking headroom.
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB NewEgg link


asus + djr DR is rock solid. 4800c19. i havent had a ram that cant do that with my pdf for profile setup that i shared thats gone viral


----------



## aznguyen316

cstkl1 said:


> asus + djr DR is rock solid. 4800c19. i havent had a ram that cant do that with my pdf for profile setup that i shared thats gone viral


Yeah I may end up looking for DJR DR. I found a CJR kit any thoughts on CJR with RKL?


----------



## IronAge

aznguyen316 said:


> Yeah I may end up looking for DJR DR. I found a CJR kit any thoughts on CJR with RKL?


DJR should be better, i got a DR CJR HyperX Predator Kit from 2020, but my frickin M13A has not shipped yet, sold out in germany. 

probably give it a try with the M13H.


----------



## aznguyen316

IronAge said:


> DJR should be better, i got a DR CJR HyperX Predator Kit from 2020, but my frickin M13A has not shipped yet, sold out in germany.
> 
> probably give it a try with the M13H.


Yeah the one I’m considering is a 2x16GB hyperx 3600c17 kit 1.35 V. I’m not exactly chasing highest speeds but my 2x16GB Bdie DR doesn’t seem to like RKL so much so I’ve been shopping around. Or maybe just get the 2x16GB 3600-16-19-19-39 GSkill Neo kit which I believe is DJR


----------



## IronAge

@aznguyen316 

That is exactly the kit i own - HX436C17PB3K2/32 to put it more precise.


----------



## aznguyen316

IronAge said:


> @aznguyen316
> 
> That is exactly the kit i own - HX436C17PB3K2/32 to put it more precise.


Ah cool! Yeah that’s the one. I assume gear 1 stock xmp wouldn’t have any issues. Just curious about gear 2 OC. Would also be using on a M13H. If you ever get around to testing let me know  thanks


----------



## IronAge

@aznguyen316 

actually i got plans to try this kit tonight or mabye tomorrow morning.


----------



## frantatech

cstkl1 said:


> asus + djr DR is rock solid. 4800c19. i havent had a ram that cant do that with my pdf for profile setup that i shared thats gone viral


Can confirm this, and thank you for the sharing the pdf sheet


----------



## Arni90

IronAge said:


> As long as it has much better latency than AMD Ryzen everything is fine.
> 
> i would trade +10ns for two additional cores, of course this will not happen.


Rocket Lake memory latency in Gear 1 is barely 15 ns ahead of Zen 3 as it is, and more cores really wouldn't help outside of rendering, encoding, and numerical simulations (i. e. work).

More L3 cache or a faster memory controller in gear 1 would on the other hand help significantly.


----------



## bscool

aznguyen316 said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Comparing to the 4266C17-18-18-38 @1.5V but same price the new kit you posted should be better? Potentially for overclocking headroom.
> 
> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4266C17D-32GVKB NewEgg link


I have a a few 2x16 kits (4266c17, 3200c14 Gskill, 3200c14 Team, 3600c14 Neo). Just ordered the 4000c16 Neo kit to see how it is. All are very close when comparing on CML on RKL the 3600c14 neo has been the best by a tiny bit. The 3600c14 neo will boot 4533 and none of the other do.

My guess is the [email protected] should be some of the best. But who knows.

Anyone looking at buying the new kits there is 5% off on ebay if you qualify for the next couple of days. Edit 5% in ebucks


----------



## IronAge

@Arni90

try having higher bandwidth with Ryzen, then see what kind of latency you get. 

you think that there will be a smaller latency tradeoff for higher bandwidth with Alder Lake + DDR5 ?!


----------



## cstkl1

@shamino1978

latest bios just insane for djr dr


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2487277
> 
> 
> @shamino1978
> 
> latest bios just insane for djr dr


Congrats - may I ask at what voltages?


----------



## Arni90

IronAge said:


> @Arni90
> 
> try having higher bandwidth with Ryzen, then see what kind of latency you get.
> 
> you think that there will be a smaller latency tradeoff for higher bandwidth with Alder Lake + DDR5 ?!


The bandwidth/latency-tradeoff on Ryzen isn't actually that bad. 2x8GB at 4400 MHz unsynchronized ends up with a penalty at about 5 ns compared to 2x8GB at 3800 MHz 1:1. And Zen 3 can hit 54 ns at 3800 MHz 1:1 with B-die. The reason higher memory clocks aren't considered on AMD Ryzen is because the bandwidth to a chiplet is hard-limited by the Infinity Fabric, Zen 3 chiplets has 128b read and 64b write, so higher memory frequencies will only really affect memory-heavy workloads that use a lot of cores (Linpack for example).

There will probably be a smaller latency vs. bandwidth tradeoff with Alder Lake, as running 6400 MHz in Gear 2 will have the memory controller at the same frequency as 3200 MHz in Gear 1. Unless Intel manages to run the memory controller at 2500 MHz (compared to Rocket Lake's limit around 2000 MHz), I doubt the option will be considered viable for anything outside of SuperPI. If DDR5 manages to reach 9000 MHz daily stable in it's first iteration, there's even less of a reason to consider Gear 1


----------



## chibi

IronAge said:


> Best price for M13A in germany is about $699 CAD and that includes 19% VAT, so $499 CAD for Z490 M12A looks like a steal.


Apex z490 @ $499 is indeed a good price. It's on clearance as last item. The only thing that concerns me is the older Intel I225V lan chipset. Otherwise I would jump on that + 10900K.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Congrats - may I ask at what voltages?


1.75


----------



## tomwarren

YaqY said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0706.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Thanks! Any release notes or idea on the changes?


----------



## YaqY

tomwarren said:


> Thanks! Any release notes or idea on the changes?


Sadly not.


----------



## Arni90

Apex might be decent at memory overclocking, but I'm not noticing a huge difference from the Hero.









This was achieved by adjusting termination resistances, it wasn't stable on all auto. 1.75V DRAM, 1.35V memIO, 1.25V SA


----------



## YaqY

Arni90 said:


> Apex might be decent at memory overclocking, but I'm not noticing a huge difference from the Hero.
> 
> View attachment 2487343
> 
> 
> This was achieved by adjusting termination resistances, it wasn't stable on all auto. 1.75V DRAM, 1.35V memIO, 1.25V SA


Nice job, what termination resistances did you use?


----------



## IronAge

Arni90 said:


> The bandwidth/latency-tradeoff on Ryzen isn't actually that bad. 2x8GB at 4400 MHz unsynchronized ends up with a penalty at about 5 ns compared to 2x8GB at 3800 MHz 1:1. And Zen 3 can hit 54 ns at 3800 MHz 1:1 with B-die.


Many Zen3 just don't do FCLK 1900 properly, so most people end up using 3733/1866 or even less, and still have WHEA Errors from time to time. I have got a built out 5900X sitting on my Desktop and i have dropped my plans to replace 2066/Cascade Lake X with it.



> According to Longsys' provided RAM benchmarks, the DDR5 memory module outperformed the DDR4 memory module in AIDA64's read, write and copy tests. The performance gains came down to 39%, 36%, and 12%, respectively. *However, the DDR5 memory module did show a 97% higher latency than the DDR4 offering, though.*


Source: tomshardware.com

That was done with an Alder Lake ES. Guess we will see about that "probable" less latency trade-off with Alder Lake and DDR5. Jedec A Specification is CL46 for DDR5 6400 AFAIK.


----------



## Arni90

YaqY said:


> Nice job, what termination resistances did you use?


In the order ODT RTT _WR - PARK - NOM_: 80-120-0

My method for determining the best option was:
1. See if it booted at 5066
2. Move up from 5066 to 5333
3. Test the "good" values on 5066.
4. Find whatever was stable in GSAT run from a bootable USB.

I'm going to run a few gaming tests at this, then compare against 3866 DR B-die.

EDIT: I have a feeling I have reached the limit of these memory sticks, 5600 MHz can merely boot into Windows. Still not a bad result for a kit rated at 4400 19-26-26


----------



## menko2

Arni90 said:


> In the order ODT RTT _WR - PARK - NOM_: 80-120-0
> 
> My method for determining the best option was:
> 1. See if it booted at 5066
> 2. Move up from 5066 to 5333
> 3. Test the "good" values on 5066.
> 4. Find whatever was stable in GSAT run from a bootable USB.
> 
> I'm going to run a few gaming tests at this, then compare against 3866 DR B-die.


Anyone is doing game tests to see how the improvements in overclocking and the bios?

Specially against the 10900k.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Many Zen3 just don't do FCLK 1900 properly, so most people end up using 3733/1866 or even less, and still have WHEA Errors from time to time. I have got a built out 5900X sitting on my Desktop and i have dropped my plans to replace 2066/Cascade Lake X with it.
> 
> 
> Source: tomshardware.com
> 
> That was done with an Alder Lake ES. Guess we will see about that "probable" less latency trade-off with Alder Lake and DDR5. Jedec A Specification is CL46 for DDR5 6400 AFAIK.


was the same case ddr1 to ddr2 to ddr3 to ddr4

ram speed will improve the cpu ipc until the latency part wont matter.

as i mention before initially 6700k had a hard time beating 4790k 2400C9/2600C10 trdrd 4


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> as i mention before initially 6700k had a hard time beating 4790k 2400C9/2600C10 trdrd 4


i can remember that, i had a Kit of F3-2600C10-4GTXD that did 2800C10-13-13-33 or 2666C10-12-12-32.


----------



## Bexak

menko2 said:


> Do you think rocket lake will be enough for gaming when the next gen GPUs comes out in 2022?
> 
> 10900k provably not because it is limited with PCIe3.


What resolution? If at peasant 1080P, then the 5900X/5950X is already a better choice.

If your sensible, and game at 4k (on a 120Hz+ TV/monitor), then a 11900k will max out the next 2-3 generations (if not more) of Nvidia GPU's, as games are still GPU limited at 4K.


----------



## frantatech

Because some of you asking for some gaming benchmarks, I may show you my results in WatchDogs Legion and SOTR. Lowest graphics settings, 1280.720.
11900K, MCE enabled, XIII Hero (bios 0706) and 3070 (rebar disabled)
RAM: 3733, 14-15-15-34, 2x16GB Bdie and 4800, 2x8GB DJR 19-25-25-45.
So yea, 3733 is *dual rank* vs 4800 *single rank*, so *take the results with grain of salt. *


----------



## menko2

Bexak said:


> What resolution? If at peasant 1080P, then the 5900X/5950X is already a better choice.
> 
> If your sensible, and game at 4k (on a 120Hz+ TV/monitor), then a 11900k will max out the next 2-3 generations (if not more) of Nvidia GPU's, as games are still GPU limited at 4K.


4k 120hz is what I use. 

Until now 10900k still gets better fps overall than 11900k. Unless someone has done more testing with new BIOS-microcodes.


----------



## menko2

frantatech said:


> Because some of you asking for some gaming benchmarks, I may show you my results in WatchDogs Legion and SOTR. Lowest graphics settings, 1280.720.
> 11900K, MCE enabled, XIII Hero (bios 0706) and 3070 (rebar disabled)
> RAM: 3733, 14-15-15-34, 2x16GB Bdie and 4800, 2x8GB DJR 19-25-25-45.
> So yea, 3733 is *dual rank* vs 4800 *single rank*, so *take the results with grain of salt. *


Thank you. I will test with your settings my 10900k. I have the same mobo.

I'll post results.


----------



## Arni90

I have now tested DJR SR 5333 vs B-die DR 3866 and B-die SR 3866



Spoiler: AIDA64 and Memory Latency Checker



DJR















B-die















B-die SR



















Spoiler: F1 2020



DJR








DR B-die








SR B-die








1920x1080 High TAA Checkerboard





Spoiler: SotTR



DJR








DR B-die








SR B-die








1920x1080 Highest preset with minimum resolution scale





Spoiler: Civ 6 GS A.I. test



DJR








DR B-die








Forgot SR B-die

3440x1440 maximum settings





Spoiler: Far Cry 5



DJR








DR B-die








SR B-die








1920x1080 Ultra preset





Spoiler: Horizon Zero Dawn



DJR








DR B-die








SR B-die








1920x1080 Maximum graphics, 50% res scale



The GPU used was an RTX 3080 at 1995 MHz core, +800 MHz memory


----------



## 2500k_2

@Arni90
Thanks for the tests. Although they are not complete (I would like to see *dr djr 5066-5200* and* sr bdie 4800* and c) for comparison, but preliminary conclusions can already be drawn. At the present moment I see no point in 2 dimm boards (apex, tachyllion, or forumula) + rocket lake. Since Gear 2 is less efficient in games even at 5333 cl 20. Any b560 or z490 board can run 3733 - 3866 dr bdie gear 1

Some will say that the wrong BIOS, the wrong memory, the wrong timings, the wrong game, the wrong motherboard, the wrong vendor, but the numbers are the most stubborn thing in the world

p.s You have gpu bound on horizon zero dawn. Probably need 720p + minimum preset for comparison


----------



## Ikaros007

Arni90 said:


> I have now tested DJR SR 5333 vs B-die DR 3866 and B-die SR 3866
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: AIDA64 and Memory Latency Checker
> 
> 
> 
> DJR
> View attachment 2487371
> 
> View attachment 2487376
> 
> 
> B-die
> View attachment 2487372
> 
> View attachment 2487374
> 
> 
> B-die SR
> View attachment 2487373
> 
> View attachment 2487375
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: F1 2020
> 
> 
> 
> DJR
> View attachment 2487377
> 
> 
> DR B-die
> View attachment 2487378
> 
> 
> SR B-die
> View attachment 2487379
> 
> 
> 1920x1080 High TAA Checkerboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SotTR
> 
> 
> 
> DJR
> View attachment 2487380
> 
> 
> DR B-die
> View attachment 2487381
> 
> 
> SR B-die
> View attachment 2487382
> 
> 
> 1920x1080 Highest preset with minimum resolution scale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Civ 6 GS A.I. test
> 
> 
> 
> DJR
> View attachment 2487383
> 
> 
> DR B-die
> View attachment 2487384
> 
> 
> Forgot SR B-die
> 
> 3440x1440 maximum settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Far Cry 5
> 
> 
> 
> DJR
> View attachment 2487385
> 
> 
> DR B-die
> View attachment 2487386
> 
> 
> SR B-die
> View attachment 2487387
> 
> 
> 1920x1080 Ultra preset
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Horizon Zero Dawn
> 
> 
> 
> DJR
> View attachment 2487388
> 
> 
> DR B-die
> View attachment 2487389
> 
> 
> SR B-die
> View attachment 2487390
> 
> 
> 1920x1080 Maximum graphics, 50% res scale
> 
> 
> 
> The GPU used was an RTX 3080 at 1995 MHz core, +800 MHz memory



Your vccio oc memory, system Agent, dram 
Voltages on B-die values?


----------



## YaqY

2500k_2 said:


> @Arni90
> Thanks for the tests. Although they are not complete (I would like to see *dr djr 5066-5200* and* sr bdie 4800* and c) for comparison, but preliminary conclusions can already be drawn. At the present moment I see no point in 2 dimm boards (apex, tachyllion, or forumula) + rocket lake. Since Gear 2 is less efficient in games even at 5333 cl 20. Any b560 or z490 board can run 3733 - 3866 dr bdie gear 1
> 
> Some will say that the wrong BIOS, the wrong memory, the wrong timings, the wrong game, the wrong motherboard, the wrong vendor, but the numbers are the most stubborn thing in the world
> 
> p.s You have gpu bound on horizon zero dawn. Probably need 720p + minimum preset for comparison


Personally don't even see the point of RKL 11900k besides hwbot when the 10900k is cheaper and faster in games.


----------



## Arni90

Ikaros007 said:


> Your vccio oc memory, system Agent, dram
> Voltages on B-die values?


VCCIO OC memory ran at 1.20V for B-die 3866, and 1.35V on 5333
VCCSA was at 1.45V for B-die 3866, and 1.25V for 5333
B-die ran at 1.60V
DJR ran at 1.75V


----------



## menko2

frantatech said:


> Because some of you asking for some gaming benchmarks, I may show you my results in WatchDogs Legion and SOTR. Lowest graphics settings, 1280.720.
> 11900K, MCE enabled, XIII Hero (bios 0706) and 3070 (rebar disabled)
> RAM: 3733, 14-15-15-34, 2x16GB Bdie and 4800, 2x8GB DJR 19-25-25-45.
> So yea, 3733 is *dual rank* vs 4800 *single rank*, so *take the results with grain of salt. *


This is at 720p lowest but my gpu is a 3090. Not sure if the cpu numbers can be separated from gpu in the benchmark.

Ram is B-die dual rank 2x16gb 3800mhz 14-14-14-30.
[email protected]


----------



## Arni90

2500k_2 said:


> @Arni90
> Thanks for the tests. Although they are not complete (I would like to see *dr djr 5066-5200* and* sr bdie 4800* and c) for comparison, but preliminary conclusions can already be drawn. At the present moment I see no point in 2 dimm boards (apex, tachyllion, or forumula) + rocket lake. Since Gear 2 is less efficient in games even at 5333 cl 20. Any b560 or z490 board can run 3733 - 3866 dr bdie gear 1
> 
> Some will say that the wrong BIOS, the wrong memory, the wrong timings, the wrong game, the wrong motherboard, the wrong vendor, but the numbers are the most stubborn thing in the world
> 
> p.s You have gpu bound on horizon zero dawn. Probably need 720p + minimum preset for comparison


The only sticks of SR B-die I have on hand are on A0 PCB, and crap out past 4400 MHz. They handle 3866 MHz just fine however.
I'm not going to bother purchasing DR DJR, what would even be the point?
The Apex can run 3866 MHz in Gear 1 at 0.05V lower SA voltage than the Hero, it's not much, but it's something at least. V-latch is cool though.

I am actually not GPU-bound in Horizon: Zero Dawn, the in-game benchmark simply doesn't scale all that much with memory speeds it seems...
Here's a screenshot of MSI Afterburner after running it:


----------



## napata

menko2 said:


> View attachment 2487393
> 
> 
> This is at 720p lowest but my gpu is a 3090. Not sure if the cpu numbers can be separated from gpu in the benchmark.
> 
> Ram is B-die dual rank 2x16gb 3800mhz 14-14-14-30.
> [email protected]


That seems low for a 10900k. I've seen them do 250+ fps at lowest settings with tweaked ram.

Below are my results on a stock [email protected] with 2x16gb DR 3600 16-19-19-39 with tweaked, but not optimal, timings (49ns in AIDA). My results are less than 5% lower than yours which I don't think should be the case. Same game build, drivers & Windows version. GPU shouldn't matter.


----------



## YaqY

napata said:


> That seems low for a 10900k. I've seen them do 250+ fps at lowest settings with tweaked ram.
> 
> Below are my results on a stock [email protected] with 2x16gb DR 3600 16-19-19-39 with tweaked, but not optimal, timings (49ns in AIDA). My results are less than 5% lower than yours which I don't think should be the case. Same game build, drivers & Windows version. GPU shouldn't matter.


Yep that FPS is quite bad for a 10900k, my 10700k at 5.3/4.9 and 4400C16 DR Bdie tuned gets 257 cpu fps in 1920x1080 lowest, 275 FPS in cpu game 800x600 Lowest.


----------



## Arni90

Note that if you run SotTR benchmark in a GPU-limited scenario, the CPU Game score will be higher than in a purely CPU-restricted scenario. The best way to compare CPUs in this game is to run the resolution scale at minimum


----------



## YaqY

Arni90 said:


> Note that if you run SotTR benchmark in a GPU-limited scenario, the CPU Game score will be higher than in a purely CPU-restricted scenario. The best way to compare CPUs in this game is to run the resolution scale at minimum


Can you try 800x600 lowest with normal render scale no taa by chance pls?


----------



## YaqY

Sorry to clarify this is 800x600 I just put it back on 1920x1080 for a clear image.


----------



## menko2

napata said:


> That seems low for a 10900k. I've seen them do 250+ fps at lowest settings with tweaked ram.
> 
> Below are my results on a stock [email protected] with 2x16gb DR 3600 16-19-19-39 with tweaked, but not optimal, timings (49ns in AIDA). My results are less than 5% lower than yours which I don't think should be the case. Same game build, drivers & Windows version. GPU shouldn't matter.


I tried to copy your resolution and settings and this is what I get: 

So i guess there is something I'm doing wrong in my oc...


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

YaqY said:


> View attachment 2487418
> 
> Sorry to clarify this is 800x600 I just put it back on 1920x1080 for a clear image.


What clock? My 5.5ghz has similar fps.


----------



## Arni90

YaqY said:


> Can you try 800x600 lowest with normal render scale no taa by chance pls?


----------



## menko2

YaqY said:


> View attachment 2487418
> 
> Sorry to clarify this is 800x600 I just put it back on 1920x1080 for a clear image.


I did the same and there is something for sure wrong with my overclock.
[email protected] all core. 4.9ghz cache.
2x16gb B-die 3800mhz 14-14-14-30.

I'm going to try with higher ram speed and looser timings.

This is 800x600:


----------



## roooo

menko2 said:


> I did the same and there is something for sure wrong with my overclock.
> [email protected] all core. 4.9ghz cache.
> 2x16gb B-die 3800mhz 14-14-14-30.


Do you get 3800 with 100:100 or 100:133 and BLCK? I recall someone wrote that 100:100 should be avoided because it gives worse results than 100:133, though I don't know if that is only true for RKL and if it still holds with the recent BIOS versions.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

roooo said:


> Do you get 3800 with 100:100 or 100:133 and BLCK? I recall someone wrote that 100:100 should be avoided because it gives worse results than 100:133, though I don't know if that is only true for RKL and if it still holds with the recent BIOS versions.


100MHz is harder since it requires 38x multiplier to get 3800. Most of the i9s could only do 29x~30x.


----------



## menko2

roooo said:


> Do you get 3800 with 100:100 or 100:133 and BLCK? I recall someone wrote that 100:100 should be avoided because it gives worse results than 100:133, though I don't know if that is only true for RKL and if it still holds with the recent BIOS versions.





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 100MHz is harder since it requires 38x multiplier to get 3800. Most of the i9s could only do 29x~30x.


I always used the Auto mode regarding 100:100 or 100:133.

So what should I aim for changing this setting to 100:133? I mean what changes in my overclock should I do when I change this setting?


----------



## menko2

YaqY said:


> Can you try 800x600 lowest with normal render scale no taa by chance pls?


800x600 lowest and no taa.

Is it ok?


----------



## roooo

menko2 said:


> I always used the Auto mode regarding 100:100 or 100:133.
> 
> So what should I aim for changing this setting to 100:133? I mean what changes in my overclock should I do when I change this setting?


Try 100:133 and 3866, for example.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> I always used the Auto mode regarding 100:100 or 100:133.
> 
> So what should I aim for changing this setting to 100:133? I mean what changes in my overclock should I do when I change this setting?


So in AUTO mode, if this freq can be done in 133 with multi, the board automatically switches to 133.


----------



## menko2

roooo said:


> Try 100:133 and 3866, for example.


So if I set in bios 3866mhz and 100:133. What timings should I head for? 

I know the timings I could go around 14-14-14-30 if it's was 100:100 3866mhz but no idea with 100:133.


----------



## roooo

menko2 said:


> So if I set in bios 3866mhz and 100:133. What timings should I head for?
> 
> I know the timings I could go around 14-14-14-30 if it's was 100:100 3866mhz but no idea with 100:133.


I don't know your kit, just try. For me, going from 14-14-14-32-CR1 to 14-14-14-36-CR1 made a large difference, stability-wise.


----------



## menko2

roooo said:


> I don't know your kit, just try. For me, going from 14-14-14-32-CR1 to 14-14-14-36-CR1 made a large difference, stability-wise.


I'm using two kits B-die.

2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]
2x16gb 4000mhz [email protected]

What I'm trying to understand what it means this 100:100 and 100:133. 

I'm right now looking in google to understand it.

Does everyone in the forum use 100:133?


----------



## bscool

@menko2 I would try for something like 4266c16-17 or 4400c16-17 if c16 is to tight try c17. Or is running 3800-3866 the new things with 10th gen? I thought most run 4400c16+ for best FPS.






PCBuilding


KingFaris10's Site




kingfaris.co.uk


----------



## Arni90

menko2 said:


> I'm using two kits B-die.
> 
> 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]
> 2x16gb 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> What I'm trying to understand what it means this 100:100 and 100:133.
> 
> I'm right now looking in google to understand it.
> 
> Does everyone in the forum use 100:133?


Go for 100:133, Gear 1 if you're gaming, Gear 2 if you're chasing Geekbench


----------



## bscool

Arni90 said:


> Go for 100:133, Gear 1 if you're gaming, Gear 2 if you're chasing Geekbench


He has a 10900k so they have gear 2 now with z590 MB?


----------



## menko2

bscool said:


> @menko2 I would try for something like 4266c16-17 or 4400c16-17 if c16 is to tight try c17. Or is running 3800-3866 the new things with 10th gen? I thought most run 4400c16+ for best FPS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCBuilding
> 
> 
> KingFaris10's Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingfaris.co.uk


I was using 3800mhz 14-14-14-30 for better IO and SA voltages at 1.25v.

I'm trying 4400c16+ now.

The problem i found is the values of IO and specially SA have to be very high. I read in the guides that 1.25-1.30v are safe for 24/7. 

For 4400mhz i have to go around 1.50v in SA to make it stable.

Is it ok to keep 1.50v SA for 24/7?


----------



## bscool

menko2 said:


> I was using 3800mhz 14-14-14-30 for better IO and SA voltages at 1.25v.
> 
> I'm trying 4400c16+ now.
> 
> The problem i found is the values of IO and specially SA have to be very high. I read in the guides that 1.25-1.30v are safe for 24/7.
> 
> For 4400mhz i have to go around 1.50v in SA to make it stable.
> 
> Is it ok to keep 1.50v SA for 24/7?


I try to stay under 1.45 for io/sa. If you need it that high for 4400 then try 4266. That seems strange you need 1.5v sa. I have had a couple 10700k and 10850k CPUs on z490 Hero, Apex and Unify and all could do 4400c16 2x16 under 1.45io/sa.

Unless z590 MB used with z490 acts weird. Seems like whenever they do a 2 gen cpu and mb it always works best when using z490MB with z490 CPU and z590mb with z590 cpu. I noticed the same thing with z370 and z390 mb and cpus.


----------



## aznguyen316

menko2 said:


> I'm using two kits B-die.
> 
> 2x8gb 3600mhz [email protected]
> 2x16gb 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> What I'm trying to understand what it means this 100:100 and 100:133.
> 
> I'm right now looking in google to understand it.
> 
> Does everyone in the forum use 100:133?


Yes pretty much because it’s been determined it’s faster for this platform. 

This is the BCLK and DRAM Frequency ratio. 100:133. I think we discussed this a few days ago I mentioned before 3200, 3600 or 3733 or 3866 or 4000 or 4266, 4400 etc it’s all in 133 ratio and more common DRAM frequencies. Just add or subtract 133 to figure out what you might want to use. When 11th gen is installed and you choose 100:133 you’ll see options greyed out that won’t work.


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> 800x600 lowest and no taa.
> 
> Is it ok?
> 
> View attachment 2487424


Sottr loves memory dude tight subs and terts on your board and ram 4200+ should be doable with tight timings.


----------



## bscool

Most people are posting or giving advice as if @menko2 is on 11900k he is using 10900k on z590 mb.


----------



## Arni90

bscool said:


> Most people are posting as if @menko2 is on 11900k he is using 10900k


This *is *the thread titled *Overclocking 11700/11900K*


----------



## bscool

Arni90 said:


> This *is *the thread titled *Overclocking 11700/11900K*


I know but look at what cpu it shows he is using.


----------



## YoungChris

HyperMatrix said:


> I opened up another cpu from the same batch # as my 85 SP and 88 SP. this is 73 SP. The 73 SP chip is actually the most capable overclocker. But it also has massive leakage so it burns red hot. I pulled over 300W with it. 5300MHz with 1.5V at LL5. The SP85 chip had the absolute lowest leakage and stayed ridiculously cool (low to mid 60s) but it had one core that couldn’t handle 5200MHz and gave WHEA errors. The SP 88 chip would be in the 70s in 5300MHz non-AVX workloads but was giving watchdog error/hang when running Cinebench. It didn’t happen with intel burn test which uses AVX 1. But cinebench R23 with AVX2 triggers a hang immediately. Interestingly, the SP73 chip with the same settings tool 15 seconds before it froze on cinebench r23, whereas the SP88 chip did so within a second of launching the benchmark.
> 
> Unfortunately the SP85 chip which would have been my favorite has that one bad core that prevents me from being able to run at least 5200MHz all core clock. So I’m going to pop the SP 88 in there and see if I can push some more voltage its way to stabilize it.
> 
> I am impressed by the SP 73 chip though. If you have enough cooling, it can do the 5200MHz than the SP 85 chip couldn’t.


What's the die sense load vcore of the SP 73 chip at 5.3/1.5vcore llc5?


----------



## HyperMatrix

YoungChris said:


> What's the die sense load vcore of the SP 73 chip at 5.3/1.5vcore llc5?


Very high. I only played around with it for a bit but I believe for all core 5.3GHz it was pulling 1.67V under load.


----------



## Falkentyne

bscool said:


> I try to stay under 1.45 for io/sa. If you need it that high for 4400 then try 4266. That seems strange you need 1.5v sa. I have had a couple 10700k and 10850k CPUs on z490 Hero, Apex and Unify and all could do 4400c16 2x16 under 1.45io/sa.
> 
> Unless z590 MB used with z490 acts weird. Seems like whenever they do a 2 gen cpu and mb it always works best when using z490MB with z490 CPU and z590mb with z590 cpu. I noticed the same thing with z370 and z390 mb and cpus.


I noticed no change at all (Except slightly lower cpu voltage required) in any memory voltages and timings with 10900k in Z490 Maximus 12 Extreme and Z590 Maximus 13 Extreme, at 4400 2x16 GB, although the skews seemed slightly different.


----------



## Falkentyne

HyperMatrix said:


> Very high. I only played around with it for a bit but I believe for all core 5.3GHz it was pulling 1.67V under load.


1.5v set in BIOS for 1.67v under load? How does that work....? That's either not die sense or that's some sort of auto or adaptive...


----------



## HyperMatrix

Falkentyne said:


> 1.5v set in BIOS for 1.67v under load? How does that work....? That's either not die sense or that's some sort of auto or adaptive...


Just reading core voltage through CPU-Z. My block is broken at the moment so I have limited testing ability but with LL4 and 1.4 manual voltage set right now, under full load it goes up to 1.459V. Previously when testing on another chip I believe with LL5 and 1.55V manual voltage it was hitting up to around 1.73V under. I do have CPU Current Capability set to 140% in bios. I’m not sure if that was under load or if it popped up during the transition phase between AVX workloads or not as I stopped it quickly when I saw the voltage. The CPU was pulling about 320W at this point.


----------



## YoungChris

HyperMatrix said:


> Very high. I only played around with it for a bit but I believe for all core 5.3GHz it was pulling 1.67V under load.


that is a typo, supposed to be 1.37v, right?


----------



## HyperMatrix

YoungChris said:


> that is a typo, supposed to be 1.37v, right?


No sir. It’s SP73. 5300MHz all core takes a lot.


----------



## roooo

Arni90 said:


> VCCIO OC memory ran at 1.20V for B-die 3866, and 1.35V on 5333
> VCCSA was at 1.45V for B-die 3866, and 1.25V for 5333
> B-die ran at 1.60V
> DJR ran at 1.75V


@Arni90 Thanks for sharing. Did you chose 1.20V VCCIO Mem OC because higher wasn't necessary, or because higher voltages would cause instabilities?


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> I was using 3800mhz 14-14-14-30 for better IO and SA voltages at 1.25v.
> 
> I'm trying 4400c16+ now.
> 
> The problem i found is the values of IO and specially SA have to be very high. I read in the guides that 1.25-1.30v are safe for 24/7.
> 
> For 4400mhz i have to go around 1.50v in SA to make it stable.
> 
> Is it ok to keep 1.50v SA for 24/7?


Up to 1.5 SA is no problems. We used it for years, even from 8700k days. Most hugh end memorykits have 1.4v+ on SA. For IO voltage, keep under 1.4v. This is my opinion.

I think high IO voltage is bad for the cpu, not SA 

I benchmarked with 1.65 Vccsa on 10900k


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> For IO voltage, keep under 1.4v. This is my opinion.


I'm assuming you mean VCCIO Mem OC, not VCCIO? Cause for the latter most ppl suggest leaving it a stock 1.05V...


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> I'm assuming you mean VCCIO Mem OC, not VCCIO? Cause for the latter most ppl suggest leaving it a stock 1.05V...


Sorry, I talk about 8-9 and 10 series cpu's, not Rocketlake.


----------



## Arni90

roooo said:


> @Arni90 Thanks for sharing. Did you chose 1.20V VCCIO Mem OC because higher wasn't necessary, or because higher voltages would cause instabilities?


I just went down in steps of 100 mV at a time, and went back when I couldn't boot. The actually needed value is probably somewhere between 1.10V and 1.20V


----------



## safedisk

Both BIOS can easily boot the GEAR1 1:1 3866 from air. 0707 and 0409 mod bios

*From shamino*
Some refinements to gear 1 , in particular cmd rate 1t mode , plc check if helps!!
I use 1.45v io mem and 1.6v SA for 3866 1t just to rule out voltages

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0707 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0707.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0707 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0707.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME 0707 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0707.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL 0707 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-GLACIAL-ASUS-0707.7z

*For SUPERPI (APEX 0409 MOD BIOS)
This is an old BIOS, so it is recommended to use it only when running SUPERPI. Because the latest BIOS has better performance*
M13A_0409_MOD.7z


----------



## IronAge

@safedisk

Thanks for sharing the BIOS, my M13A has been delayed until 27.04. 

Probably you got something for M12A too ?


----------



## Spiriva

safedisk said:


> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0707 BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0707.7z


Thank you, the 0707 bios shaved off abit of latency for me in aida64. From 48ns to like 44.5ns with the same settings. (gear 1 3733mhz 14 14 14 32 1.5V)
gskill 3600mhz 16 16 16 36 1.35V @ gear 1 3733mhz 14 14 14 32 1.5V


----------



## aznguyen316

Spiriva said:


> Thank you, the 0707 bios shaved off abit of latency for me in aida64. From 48ns to like 44.5ns with the same settings. (gear 1 3733mhz 14 14 14 32 1.5V)
> gskill 3600mhz 16 16 16 36 1.35V @ gear 1 3733mhz 14 14 14 32 1.5V


what is your mem IO/SA voltages? Any other minor settings to boot 3733 Gear 1? I've had two chips 11700k/11900K not liking gear 1 3733.. 3600 boots but I haven't stabilized dram timings yet though. Guess I can try with 0707 bios. my kit is gskill 3200-15-15-35 1.35V DR Bdie on MH13.. I've validated it at 4000C17-19-39 @.145V though on 10900K and 11700K gear 2.


----------



## Spiriva

aznguyen316 said:


> what is your mem IO/SA voltages? Any other minor settings to boot 3733 Gear 1? I've had two chips 11700k/11900K not liking gear 1 3733.. 3600 boots but I haven't stabilized dram timings yet though. Guess I can try with 0707 bios. my kit is gskill 3200-15-15-35 1.35V DR Bdie on MH13.. I've validated it at 4000C17-19-39 @.145V though on 10900K and 11700K gear 2.


I havent changed them from Auto










I got g skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZN (the ones that were advertised for Ryzen cpu´s)


----------



## frantatech

safedisk said:


> Both BIOS can easily boot the GEAR1 1:1 3866 from air. 0707 and 0409 mod bios


Can confirm boot 3866 1:1 CR2, with 2x16GB Bdie. Could not do that with 0704/0706, so this is clearly an improvement for me, thank you! Timings are safe so far, just a basic tuning.
Lowest voltages i could boot 3866:
VCCSA 1.5V, VCCIO MEM 1.38V, DRAM 1.45V Could not boot to 3866 1t at this voltage, did not tried more V to be able to boot to 3866 the 1t yet.


----------



## Spiriva

frantatech said:


> Can confirm boot 3866 1:1 CR2, with 2x16GB Bdie. Could not do that with 0704/0706, so this is clearly an improvement for me, thank you! Timings are safe so far, just a basic tuning.
> Lowest voltages i could boot 3866:
> VCCSA 1.5V, VCCIO MEM 1.38V, DRAM 1.45V Could not boot to 3866 1t at this voltage, did not tried more V to be able to boot to 3866 the 1t yet.


Same for me, i just tried 3866mhz. gear 1, 15 15 15 34 with 1.5volt and with this 0707 bios it worked fine. With 04/06 it wouldnt boot over 3733mhz in gear 1.
Nice work Asus!


----------



## aznguyen316

well Gear 1 3733 finally booted for me on 2x16GB DR BDie on 0707 Bios. Auto Mem IO is around 1.45V and auto SA is 1.36

Will do some more testing.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

frantatech said:


> Can confirm boot 3866 1:1 CR2, with 2x16GB Bdie. Could not do that with 0704/0706, so this is clearly an improvement for me, thank you! Timings are safe so far, just a basic tuning.
> Lowest voltages i could boot 3866:
> VCCSA 1.5V, VCCIO MEM 1.38V, DRAM 1.45V Could not boot to 3866 1t at this voltage, did not tried more V to be able to boot to 3866 the 1t yet.


What's the rtl? Think the latency might be a little high.


----------



## kylethepenguin

frantatech said:


> Can confirm boot 3866 1:1 CR2, with 2x16GB Bdie. Could not do that with 0704/0706, so this is clearly an improvement for me, thank you! Timings are safe so far, just a basic tuning.
> Lowest voltages i could boot 3866:
> VCCSA 1.5V, VCCIO MEM 1.38V, DRAM 1.45V Could not boot to 3866 1t at this voltage, did not tried more V to be able to boot to 3866 the 1t yet.


Is that VCCSA @ 1.5V okay for day to day use, or is that going to cause accelerated degradation? I was able to boot my 4x8 3200mhz b-die at 3866, but it took a good 1.45V on VCCSA.


----------



## YoungChris

(for the Apex)

Made 3 more variants of 0409, each with a different newer RKL microcode. 34, 39, 3c. Base bios with the microcode it originally had, 24, is also included. Would be nice to compare the same bios with different microcodes for SuperPi 32m. Also, maybe interesting to compare 0707 to 0409 w/3c, as those have the same microcode now.

M13A 0409 with various microcodes.7z

Also made 3 more variants of 0707, each with a different older RKL microcode. 39, 34, 24. Base bios with the microcode it originally had, 3c is also included. Would be nice to compare the same bios with different microcodes for Geekbench 3 single/multi overall/memory score. Also, maybe interesting to compare 0409 to 0707 w/24, as those have the same microcode now.

M13A 0707 with various microcodes.7z

The bioses may or may not work, as I don't have an Apex 13 to check with. SP or other features may have issues. These microcode-swapped versions may not be useful at all, even if they do work, but I figured I might as well put them out there for other curious OCers. Aida comparisons may also be interesting.
Be sure that when you make comparison screens, show as much relevant detail as you can. I would recommend CPU-Z v1.96 CPU/Memory/Memory and maybe SPD tab and ASRock Timing Configurator ver 4.0.9.


----------



## frantatech

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> What's the rtl? Think the latency might be a little high.


Round trip latency enabled. There is memtweak screen, Asrock one does not work for me, no idea why. A bit better results with few timing changes.


----------



## safedisk

YoungChris said:


> (for the Apex)
> 
> Made 3 more variants of 0409, each with a different newer RKL microcode. 34, 39, 3c. Base bios with the microcode it originally had, 24, is also included. Would be nice to compare the same bios with different microcodes for SuperPi 32m. Also, maybe interesting to compare 0707 to 0409 w/3c, as those have the same microcode now.
> 
> M13A 0409 with various microcodes.7z
> 
> Also made 3 more variants of 0707, each with a different older RKL microcode. 39, 34, 24. Base bios with the microcode it originally had, 3c is also included. Would be nice to compare the same bios with different microcodes for Geekbench 3 single/multi overall/memory score. Also, maybe interesting to compare 0409 to 0707 w/24, as those have the same microcode now.
> 
> M13A 0707 with various microcodes.7z
> 
> The bioses may or may not work, as I don't have an Apex 13 to check with. SP or other features may have issues. These microcode-swapped versions may not be useful at all, even if they do work, but I figured I might as well put them out there for other curious OCers. Aida comparisons may also be interesting.


Using the mix microcode bios will change the sp value So it is not recommended to use it.
Even if apply the old microcode to the latest BIOS, the superpi is still slow.
Only in superpi the old bios is better. in general, it is performance better to use the latest BIOS.


----------



## safedisk

IronAge said:


> @safedisk
> 
> Thanks for sharing the BIOS, my M13A has been delayed until 27.04.
> 
> Probably you got something for M12A too ?


The latest BIOS version of M13A is 2103


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

frantatech said:


> Round trip latency enabled. There is memtweak screen, Asrock one does not work for me, no idea why. A bit better results with few timing changes.


You may try Timing configurator 4.0.8.

3600 can do 38ns latency.


----------



## Nizzen

Timing Configurator http://picx.xfastest.com/nickshih/asrock/AsrTCSetup(v4.0.9).rar


----------



## Talon2016

menko2 said:


> I was using 3800mhz 14-14-14-30 for better IO and SA voltages at 1.25v.
> 
> I'm trying 4400c16+ now.
> 
> The problem i found is the values of IO and specially SA have to be very high. I read in the guides that 1.25-1.30v are safe for 24/7.
> 
> For 4400mhz i have to go around 1.50v in SA to make it stable.
> 
> Is it ok to keep 1.50v SA for 24/7?


Is this 10th or 11th gen?


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> What's the rtl? Think the latency might be a little high.


trfc. ☹😢😭


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> (for the Apex)
> 
> Made 3 more variants of 0409, each with a different newer RKL microcode. 34, 39, 3c. Base bios with the microcode it originally had, 24, is also included. Would be nice to compare the same bios with different microcodes for SuperPi 32m. Also, maybe interesting to compare 0707 to 0409 w/3c, as those have the same microcode now.
> 
> M13A 0409 with various microcodes.7z
> 
> Also made 3 more variants of 0707, each with a different older RKL microcode. 39, 34, 24. Base bios with the microcode it originally had, 3c is also included. Would be nice to compare the same bios with different microcodes for Geekbench 3 single/multi overall/memory score. Also, maybe interesting to compare 0409 to 0707 w/24, as those have the same microcode now.
> 
> M13A 0707 with various microcodes.7z
> 
> The bioses may or may not work, as I don't have an Apex 13 to check with. SP or other features may have issues. These microcode-swapped versions may not be useful at all, even if they do work, but I figured I might as well put them out there for other curious OCers. Aida comparisons may also be interesting.
> Be sure that when you make comparison screens, show as much relevant detail as you can. I would recommend CPU-Z v1.96 CPU/Memory/Memory and maybe SPD tab and ASRock Timing Configurator ver 4.0.9.


i wouldnt do that bro. new ucode is 40

afaik atb official was 03x
3c has copy increase

and subsequent has no performance but some update feature base bios

retail doesnt seem to like 24


----------



## menko2

Talon2016 said:


> Is this 10th or 11th gen?


That was 10th gen. Sorry I made it in the wrong post.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> trfc. ☹😢😭


Yup. Just saw it...😁


----------



## safedisk

11900K Retail / ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0707 BIOS / 16G x 2 Dual Rank B-DIE

HCI TEST 4700 17-17-17-31 1T / Aida64 74K 73K 73K
16 T Cover Speed 1288.73 MB/s
Avg Cover Speed 80.55 MB/s

Samsung B-DIE is still strong


----------



## Nizzen

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2487676
> 
> 
> 11900K Retail / ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0707 BIOS / 16G x 2 Dual Rank B-DIE
> 
> HCI TEST 4700 17-17-17-31 1T / Aida64 74K 73K 73K
> 16 T Cover Speed 1288.73 MB/s
> Avg Cover Speed 80.55 MB/s
> 
> Samsung B-DIE is still strong


Care to share bios CMO profile? ❤


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Care to share bios CMO profile? ❤


@safedisk 
+ share friend who can give/sell us such a ram also ya. 

lol.


----------



## frantatech

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup. Just saw it...😁


Aye, oh well. Anyway, few more tweaks and this is the lowest ns I can do without raising V above 1.45, which I would not like to do so, yet. The bandwidth is decent at least?

@Nizzen many many thanks for the link to ASrock Timing Configurator - that one finally works flawlessly for me


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

frantatech said:


> Aye, oh well. Anyway, few more tweaks and this is the lowest ns I can do without raising V above 1.45, which I would not like to do so, yet. The bandwidth is decent at least?
> 
> @Nizzen many many thanks for the link to ASrock Timing Configurator - that one finally works flawlessly for me


Yup, bandwidth seems no problem. 

RTL=15*2+21+12(14)=63(65) this is already close to the 10th gen.

I've seen some ppl get 70+ RTL in gear 1. Probably they didn't turn on that rtl training.


----------



## 2500k_2

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2487676
> 
> 
> 11900K Retail / ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0707 BIOS / 16G x 2 Dual Rank B-DIE
> 
> HCI TEST 4700 17-17-17-31 1T / Aida64 74K 73K 73K
> 16 T Cover Speed 1288.73 MB/s
> Avg Cover Speed 80.55 MB/s
> 
> Samsung B-DIE is still strong


Impressive. Please share a screenshot of the timing configurator. 
What is the Dram voltage?


----------



## roooo

I just did an MS Flight Simulator 2020 and FC5 benchmark comparison for 3866-14-15-15-36 CR1 Gear 1 vs. 4533-19-25-25-40 CR1 Gear 2 (GSkill 2x8GB F4-4600C18D, SR B-Die). [email protected] all-core, M13A 0707, RTX3080. I was running MSFS and FC5 at 4K Ultra because these are the settings I'm gaming at, however, I also included MSFS with 1024x768. For MSFS I disabled dynamic weather etc., set fixed airport, started mid-air with a Cessna at the same location and local time, waited for 5s for the initial stutters to settle, then set throttle to 0 and started CapFrameX recording for 50s while the plane slowly dived. I aggregated & averaged over 3 runs, however StdDev was very low. For FC5, I averaged over three runs of the built-in benchmark, deviations were no higher than 1FPS.

MSFS, FPS results are 95% / Avg / 1% / Min

3866, UHD: 56.1 44.1 35.5 23.2
3866, XGA: 120.4 95.4 60.4 35.5 
4533, UHD: 56.1 44.1 34.9 17.8
4533, XGA: 111.5 91.2 65.8 38.0

FC5, FPS results are Min / Avg / Max

3866, UHD: 88/98/111
4533, UHD: 88/97/110

So yes, in my MSFS 4K scenario Gear 1 has a little edge over Gear 2 in minimum FPS, at 1% it's within margin of error I'd say. In the synthetic XGA benchmark, however, the low FPS are actually a tad higher for Gear 2. But who's gaming at XGA?!


----------



## bscool

@Rooo I take it your kit is not very good if you have to run [email protected] 19-25-25? I would think at those clocks timings more like 17-17-17. XMP is [email protected] on that kit.


----------



## roooo

I was able to run 4800 with as low as 18-18-18-40 but it wasn't HCI stable and made MSFS crash several times. This resulted in MSFS file corruption, so I had to reinstall all 170GB - no fun. Therefore, I played safe with 4533-19-25-25 ;-) But yeah, I would not get this kit to post at 5066, however, I also did not have the time to toy around with voltages and timings that much.


----------



## roooo

If you know this kit and have any suggestions regarding voltages / timings, please let me know!


----------



## bscool

It will vary as it is the lotto with any kit. I do own that kit and mine does [email protected] in z390 Apex. I really haven't used it as I have better kits.


----------



## 2500k_2

Toppc`s Memory Frequency score: 3600.2 MHz with a DDR4 SDRAM


The DDR4 SDRAM @ 3600.2MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Memory Frequency benchmark. Toppcranks #1 worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org




Mby at 7200 MHz, Rocket Lake will show better performance in games than Comet Lake 😄


----------



## Esenel

roooo said:


> I just did an MS Flight Simulator 2020 and FC5 benchmark comparison for 3866-14-15-15-36 CR1 Gear 1 vs. 4533-19-25-25-40 CR1 Gear 2 (GSkill 2x8GB F4-4600C18D, SR B-Die). [email protected] all-core, M13A 0707, RTX3080.


Comparing the tightest possible Gear1 setting with a ****ty Gear 2 helps how?

Makes more sense with such a setting.
2x8GB 4800 17-19.
1h GSAT, 200% HCI and 45 minutes Prime custom.


----------



## roooo

You're welcome to post more helpful benchmark results!


----------



## Salve1412

EDIT
Sorry, wrong thread.


----------



## Esenel

roooo said:


> You're welcome to post more helpful benchmark results!


I am not rushing benchmark results.
At first bios versions need to be somehow robust.
And a final max settings needs to be found.

Creating a Gear1 setting afterwards is much easier.
So don't expect too soon any comparison from my side.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Finally APEX is here in the US


----------



## aznguyen316

Esenel said:


> Comparing the tightest possible Gear1 setting with a ****ty Gear 2 helps how?
> 
> Makes more sense with such a setting.
> 2x8GB 4800 17-19.
> 1h GSAT, 200% HCI and 45 minutes Prime custom.
> View attachment 2487725


I think any information and data points are helpful to share. Not everyone will be tweaking their **** to the highest bounds. Maybe those gear 2 speeds are the best I can get for a basic djr kit vs wondering if I should upgrade from an older dr bdie kit that can’t go above 3600/3733. Who knows but any sort of data helps.


----------



## cstkl1

bios 0707 
retail cpu
easy bdie dr 
[email protected] sa/io 1.25

yawn.


----------



## D-EJ915

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Finally APEX is here in the US
> 
> View attachment 2487732


My question, besides vlatch is it really any better that it is 180 dollars more over 12 if I have apex 12 already?


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> bios 0707
> retail cpu
> easy bdie dr
> [email protected] sa/io 1.25
> 
> yawn.


Do you know why the price of the 11900k is so high?

It's getting more and more expensive here in spain. I thought 650€ was expensive and now even more.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

D-EJ915 said:


> My question, besides vlatch is it really any better that it is 180 dollars more over 12 if I have apex 12 already?


If you are using 11th gen then yes, you need to upgrade. Even if the microcode in the BIOS is the same, there is a slight difference in mem OC between z490 and z590.


----------



## IronAge

@menko2

11900K supplies are short, best price is ~550€ including VAT here, could get a 11900KF for 565€ Boxed as well.


----------



## IronAge

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Finally APEX is here in the US


Getting mine tomorrow, you have to pay sales tax on top of that price ?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

IronAge said:


> Getting mine tomorrow, you have to pay sales tax on top of that price ?


Yup...an additional 8.25% here, and they just won't deliver on weekends...


----------



## cstkl1

menko2 said:


> Do you know why the price of the 11900k is so high?
> 
> It's getting more and more expensive here in spain. I thought 650€ was expensive and now even more.


same answer i guess after 127pages
why are you on this thread? 
i dont know. lol. 
scalpers?? i bought mine usd 569


----------



## YaqY

Esenel said:


> Comparing the tightest possible Gear1 setting with a ****ty Gear 2 helps how?
> 
> Makes more sense with such a setting.
> 2x8GB 4800 17-19.
> 1h GSAT, 200% HCI and 45 minutes Prime custom.
> View attachment 2487725


What program is this "Intel Mem Timings", got a link?


----------



## cstkl1

11900k sp 89
[email protected] sa/io 1.25



easy.


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> i wouldnt do that bro. new ucode is 40
> 
> afaik atb official was 03x
> 3c has copy increase
> 
> and subsequent has no performance but some update feature base bios
> 
> retail doesnt seem to like 24


what bios has 40? can update


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> what bios has 40? can update


just a new feature coming.


----------



## cstkl1

bios 0707
4600c17 dr bdie 1.475v easy


----------



## bscool

menko2 said:


> Do you know why the price of the 11900k is so high?
> 
> It's getting more and more expensive here in spain. I thought 650€ was expensive and now even more.


Because you will be a gaming god and respected by your enemies and your peers if you have 11900k and even AMD fans will be jealous . My life has changed since receiving the11900k end game CPU ..........


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Because you will be a gaming god and respected by your enemies and your peers if you have 11900k and even AMD fans will be jealous . My life has changed since receiving the11900k end game CPU ..........


lol.

hmm 3c and asus tweaking atm pushed the io/sa voltage to the limit and sometimes need adjustment .

now just waiting my my bdie sr kit to arrive. regret selling my quads that do [email protected]


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> bios 0707
> 4600c17 dr bdie 1.475v easy
> View attachment 2487827


1.475v SA seems a bit high for 24/7. Isnt it?


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> 1.475v SA seems a bit high for 24/7. Isnt it?


1.475 vdimm


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> 1.475 vdimm


What is your secret? Cant seem to boot above 4266Mhz. Mind to share a cmo file of your settings?


----------



## IronAge

Lownage said:


> What is your secret? Cant seem to boot above 4266Mhz. Mind to share a cmo file of your settings?


Better Modules with A02 PCB i guess.


----------



## Nizzen

Lownage said:


> What is your secret? Cant seem to boot above 4266Mhz. Mind to share a cmo file of your settings?


Did you try bclk 110 for 4400mhz? 

I can now run 4400mhz dualrank b-die on *z490* apex on 11900k. 4533 doesn't work.


----------



## bscool

@Nizzen Did you get the z590 Apex going?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Did you try bclk 110 for 4400mhz?
> 
> I can now run 4400mhz dualrank b-die on *z490* apex on 11900k. 4533 doesn't work.


wired...4400=*22**100*2, 4533=*17**133*2, maybe ODT tuning can help.


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> What is your secret? Cant seem to boot above 4266Mhz. Mind to share a cmo file of your settings?


not now bro. ocn . so many entitled ppl who once gets a taste of free stuff think it was easy and then start **** talking like they could do it. theres a reason why they dont post aida+hci etc.

4400c17 easy, no bclk needed ..c16 need to figure out the timing .. cause something changed.

@Nizzen go low
but atm testing sa 1v for 4533c17


----------



## Lownage

IronAge said:


> Better Modules with A02 PCB i guess.


I have a kit of F4-4000C16D-32GTZR manufacturing date march 2021.

Taiphoon Burner shows B1.

Anything above 4266 wont boot. No matter what voltages, bclk clock etc. 


4266-16-17-17-32 1T is stable though.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Better Modules with A02 PCB i guess.


no bro. z590 apex tracelines at work.


----------



## i9forever

cstkl1 said:


> but atm testing sa 1v for 4533c17


What? vccsa 1V? at 4533? It´s crazy! I am fighting dr bdie at 1866 and can´t get under 1.42V vccsa in bios (hwinfo shows 1.37V - 1.39V tho)


----------



## roooo

Just out of curiosity: did anyone around here get 4000/4133 working on Gear 1 under ... errm ... "normal" conditions (air cooling, vdimm <=1.75V, etc.) ?


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Just out of curiosity: did anyone around here get 4000/4133 working on Gear 1 under ... errm ... "normal" conditions (air cooling, vdimm <=1.75V, etc.) ?


not a vdimm problem

z590 extreme back in december. sa 1.75 io 1.65

bsod trying to enter windows.


----------



## cstkl1

i9forever said:


> What? vccsa 1V? at 4533? It´s crazy! I am fighting dr bdie at 1866 and can´t get under 1.42V vccsa in bios (hwinfo shows 1.37V - 1.39V tho)


0707 boots 0.9v
can stresstest also just errors quick
1v karhu latest 800%.


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> not a vdimm problem
> 
> z590 extreme back in december. sa 1.75 io 1.65
> 
> bsod trying to enter windows.


Ouch. Seems to be a wall here....


----------



## roooo

roooo said:


> I just did an MS Flight Simulator 2020 and FC5 benchmark comparison for 3866-14-15-15-36 CR1 Gear 1 vs. 4533-19-25-25-40 CR1 Gear 2 (GSkill 2x8GB F4-4600C18D, SR B-Die). [email protected] all-core, M13A 0707, RTX3080. I was running MSFS and FC5 at 4K Ultra because these are the settings I'm gaming at, however, I also included MSFS with 1024x768. For MSFS I disabled dynamic weather etc., set fixed airport, started mid-air with a Cessna at the same location and local time, waited for 5s for the initial stutters to settle, then set throttle to 0 and started CapFrameX recording for 50s while the plane slowly dived. I aggregated & averaged over 3 runs, however StdDev was very low. For FC5, I averaged over three runs of the built-in benchmark, deviations were no higher than 1FPS.
> 
> MSFS, FPS results are 95% / Avg / 1% / Min
> 
> 3866, UHD: 56.1 44.1 35.5 23.2
> 3866, XGA: 120.4 95.4 60.4 35.5
> 4533, UHD: 56.1 44.1 34.9 17.8
> 4533, XGA: 111.5 91.2 65.8 38.0
> 
> FC5, FPS results are Min / Avg / Max
> 
> 3866, UHD: 88/98/111
> 4533, UHD: 88/97/110
> 
> So yes, in my MSFS 4K scenario Gear 1 has a little edge over Gear 2 in minimum FPS, at 1% it's within margin of error I'd say. In the synthetic XGA benchmark, however, the low FPS are actually a tad higher for Gear 2. But who's gaming at XGA?!


Sooo...I got my Klevv 2x8GB 4000-19 Kit today (KD48GU880-40B190C) and managed to get it running and HCI 100% stable at 5066-20-28-28-50 CR1 on M13A 0707 with 11900K. Voltages are Vdimm=1.65V, VCCIOMemOC=VCCSA=1.30V. Timings and voltages have not been optimized yet. Here are updated MSFS and FC5 results (averaged over 3 passes each):

MSFS, FPS results are 95% / Avg / 1% / Min 

GSkill B-Die 3866-14-15-15-36 CR1 Gear 1, UHD: 56.1 44.1 35.5 23.2
Klevv DJR 5066-20-28-28-50 CR1 Gear 2, UHD: 56.2 44.3 35.4 22.9
GSkill B-Die 3866-14-15-15-36 CR1 Gear 1, XGA: 120.4 95.4 60.4 35.5 
Klevv DJR 5066-20-28-28-50 CR1 Gear 2, XGA: 110.1 86.1 52.5 32.1

FC5, FPS results are Min / Avg / Max 

GSkill B-Die 3866-14-15-15-36 CR1 Gear 1, UHD: 88/98/111
Klevv DJR 5066-20-28-28-50 CR1 Gear 2, UHD: 86/97/110

In MSFS, Gear1 obviously has a significant edge over Gear2 at low res, for what it's worth. At 4K, however, differences are within margin of error. If anyone wants me to bench MSFS at a different res, let me know.

Side note: You may notice some inconsistency when comparing with the 4533 results I posted yesterday. Reason is that for some reason I ran the test with XGA 4533 not at all-core 50x, but 51x with 2 cores at 52x. The rest of the results as well as today's data are obtained consistently at all-core 51x with TVB and ATB off.


----------



## roooo

roooo said:


> Sooo...I got my Klevv 2x8GB 4000-19 Kit today (KD48GU880-40B190C) ....


Interestingly, I can't get this kit to post at Gear1 3866 even with loose timings. Any ideas?!


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> @Nizzen Did you get the z590 Apex going?


Testing now. Trying to get 4533+ on memory b-die DR. Looks like I need a trick to get it too boot...


----------



## Esenel

Nizzen said:


> Testing now. Trying to get 4533+ on memory b-die DR. Looks like I need a trick to get it too boot...


When found tell me 🙃


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> not now bro. ocn . so many entitled ppl who once gets a taste of free stuff think it was easy and then start **** talking like they could do it. theres a reason why they dont post aida+hci etc.
> 
> 4400c17 easy, no bclk needed ..c16 need to figure out the timing .. cause something changed.
> 
> @Nizzen go low
> but atm testing sa 1v for 4533c17


Please tell us how to set 4400mhz memory without setting like 110mhz bclk, or do we talk past each other?


----------



## bscool

Nizzen said:


> Please tell us how to set 4400mhz memory without setting like 110mhz bclk, or do we talk past each other?


Did you try read voltage centering 1d disabled? I can boot 4533c18 dual rank but it is not stable


----------



## Kana Chan

Nizzen said:


> Please tell us how to set 4400mhz memory without setting like 110mhz bclk, or do we talk past each other?


100:100?
2x22x100x1.00


----------



## Nizzen

LOL, I think I figured it out now. I thought I couldn't choose it when it was "grayed" out on 100 multiplayer.

4400 worked without bclk now. I AM STUPID 😅

Something strange is happening after 4400mhz. There is no boot.

4400mhz is easy VERY easy, like on z490 Apex. Testing now on z590 apex.

I must be missing something, or maybe My RAM doesn't like over 4400mhz with rocketlake. 4266c17 2x16 b-die

4700c17 + works on the same kit on 10900k.....


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> LOL, I think I figured it out now. I thought I couldn't choose it when it was "grayed" out on 100 multiplayer.
> 
> 4400 worked without bclk now. I AM STUPID 😅


lol. i thought that too in da beginning..and then one day i was like sure not


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> Did you try rv? I can boot 4533c18 dual rank but it is not stable


No difference with read voltage centering 1d disabled


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> LOL, I think I figured it out now. I thought I couldn't choose it when it was "grayed" out on 100 multiplayer.
> 
> 4400 worked without bclk now. I AM STUPID 😅
> 
> Something strange is happening after 4400mhz. There is no boot.
> 
> 4400mhz is easy VERY easy, like on z490 Apex. Testing now on z590 apex.
> 
> I must be missing something, or maybe My RAM doesn't like over 4400mhz with rocketlake. 4266c17 2x16 b-die
> 
> 4700c17 + works on the same kit on 10900k.....


4600 dividers works also


----------



## Nizzen

If I can't get 4533+ working on Dualrank 11900k, I swear I will throw it in the garbage VERY soon! 🤬


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> If I can't get 4533+ working on Dualrank 11900k, I swear I will throw it in the garbage VERY soon! 🤬


da ram??
da mobo??
da cpu??

or all three??

can i arrange dhl to come with a soft box 10layer bubble wrap so u can throw da damn things inside ??


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> bios 0707
> 4600c17 dr bdie 1.475v easy
> View attachment 2487827


That vdimm is quite low for 4600c17, can you show ASRock Timing Config?


----------



## YoungChris

Lownage said:


> I have a kit of F4-4000C16D-32GTZR manufacturing date march 2021.
> 
> Taiphoon Burner shows B1.
> 
> Anything above 4266 wont boot. No matter what voltages, bclk clock etc.
> 
> 
> 4266-16-17-17-32 1T is stable though.


Could just be an odd compatibility issue, maybe try gear 1 instead?


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> That vdimm is quite low for 4600c17, can you show ASRock Timing Config?


 not yet. 

target is 4800c17


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## YoungChris

roooo said:


> Just out of curiosity: did anyone around here get 4000/4133 working on Gear 1 under ... errm ... "normal" conditions (air cooling, vdimm <=1.75V, etc.) ?


vdimm <1.75 and air cooled memory should be easy as pie, gear 1 is not memory dependent. However, CPU is another case. 4133 gear 1 would need some serious imc binning to do on ambient, even with generous voltages. However, I heard it has been done before.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2487873


Oh...you might as well throw it south, DE is a bit closer than MY....


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2487873


ucode 24 or 3c?? 
check advance/cpu

that should be 1.12v or maybe lower vmin 5ghz.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Oh...you might as well throw it south, DE is a bit closer than MY....


dhl worldwide. ..


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> vdimm <1.75 and air cooled memory should be easy as pie, gear 1 is not memory dependent. However, CPU is another case. 4133 gear 1 would need some serious imc binning to do on ambient, even with generous voltages. However, I heard it has been done before.


I've only seen it with a single dimm. For dual-channel even 4000 would not be easy.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> ucode 24 or 3c??
> check advance/cpu
> 
> that should be 1.12v or maybe lower vmin 5ghz.


SP 97 with ucode 24 and SP86 with 3c LOL


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> SP 97 with ucode 24 and SP86 with 3c LOL


ignore the sp bias to the 5.2/5.3

ure 4.8 especially says diff. its superb.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Mine went from SP89 to SP88 with 3C. OC is the same just VID has increased (both on load and idle in HWINFO64).


----------



## E-Curbi2

You gents are amazing! Woohoo!

Just got my board yesterday, now the fun begins! 

That 90degree 24-pin adapter is from MNPCtech, grabbed (2) of them, looks pretty cool, hoping it doesn't create any power issues when pushing high clocks...

Got a binned 11600K from Siliconlottery, I don't know man but I just couldn't spend $900 binned on the 11900K, maybe I should have, but moving from an 8086K 5.6Ghz capable, just couldn't move to an 8core this time around. Maybe with Alder or Raptor I can grab the nerve. lol

Single Thread air-cooled track racer is what I'm hoping for. It's a work PC so yea inaudible is a must have. Primochill Wetbench SX Pro is freaking amazing!


----------



## encrypted11

Just a quick test, I'l probably be able to stabilize this with fans on the DJR.
Having some AIDA problems with 0MB/s & 0ns.

Edit: I used a fixed version of AIDA

4533 C18 benches at 54K GSAT.
5066 C20 benches at 59K GSAT.
MLC numbers included


Spoiler


----------



## Nizzen

encrypted11 said:


> Just a quick test, I'l probably be able to stabilize this with fans on the DJR.
> Having some AIDA problems with 0MB/s & 0ns.
> 
> 4533 C18 benches at 54K GSAT.
> 5066 C20 benches at 59K GSAT.
> MLC numbers included
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2487891
> 
> View attachment 2487894


What memorykit is this? 

Nice job!


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> not now bro. ocn . so many entitled ppl who once gets a taste of free stuff think it was easy and then start **** talking like they could do it. theres a reason why they dont post aida+hci etc.


So your reason for not helping other people is that you feel insulted? Insulted by someone you don't know, who doesn't know what they're talking about?


Seriously?


----------



## encrypted11

Nizzen said:


> What memorykit is this?
> 
> Nice job!


KLEVV Bolt XR 3600 XMP B1 PCB Kit.

It is possible to get decent ones in the "top bin XMP 3600" with a bunch of these since KLEVV barely bin their kits unlike RAM vendors where it's pay2win. Bolt XR's are better binned than Bolt X.

For SR kits 4266 CRAS XR (RGB) seemed like their best bin.

For DR, it's inconclusive if the RGBs are better binned.


----------



## Nizzen

Max I can do with This 4266c17 kit 2x16 kit on Apex z590 atm. Max tweaked that is stable.
Stock cpu and stock ring.









Setting for people jus want to plot them in, without any hazzle like watching Asrock timing config...


DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [320]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [6]
DRAM Write Latency [16]


tRDRD_sg_Training [6]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [11]
tRDWR_dg [11]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [28]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [11]
tRDWR_dd [11]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [7]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [Auto]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]


----------



## Nizzen

So how is this performance compared to other systems?
z590 Apex
11900k stock
3090 strix oc white stock
4400c17 2x16 b-die "max tweaked"
<<Prioritize performance>> Setting in game 1080p

Look @ numbers cpu/gpu between Bar OFF and BAR ON

Bar OFF









BAR ON


----------



## E-Curbi2

n


Nizzen said:


> Max I can do with This 4266c17 kit 2x16 kit on Apex z590 atm. Max tweaked that is stable.
> Stock cpu and stock ring.
> View attachment 2487903
> 
> 
> Setting for people jus want to plot them in, without any hazzle like watching Asrock timing config...
> 
> 
> DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
> DRAM Command Rate [2N]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [320]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [6]
> DRAM Write Latency [16]
> 
> 
> tRDRD_sg_Training [6]
> tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
> tRDRD_dg [4]
> tRDWR_sg [11]
> tRDWR_dg [11]
> tWRWR_sg [6]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [28]
> tWRRD_dg [23]
> tRDRD_dr [6]
> tRDRD_dd [7]
> tRDWR_dr [11]
> tRDWR_dd [11]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [7]
> tWRRD_dr [6]
> tWRRD_dd [6]
> TWRPRE [Auto]
> TRDPRE [Auto]
> tREFIX9 [Auto]
> OREF_RI [Auto]


Wow, I have a 4600/18 kit, is 40ns range the best we can expect from RKL?


----------



## Nizzen

E-Curbi2 said:


> n
> 
> Wow, I have a 4600/18 kit, is 40ns range the best we can expect from RKL?


+10 ns from ComedyLake with 1:2 mode
+5ns with way less bandwidth 1:1 mode

We are still searching for that one game that performing better with Rocketlake VS ComedyLake


----------



## E-Curbi2

Nizzen said:


> +10 ns from ComedyLake with 1:2 mode
> +5ns with way less bandwidth 1:1 mode
> 
> We are still searching for that one game that performing better with Rocketlake VS ComedyLake


I'm kinda glad I only bought the 6core 11600K $339USD from Siliconlottery, I'm only building an office work machine, still would love the lowest AIDA latency possible 40ns seems ok if I can grab 5000Mhz - wishful thinking.


----------



## Esenel

@shamino1978
Bios 0707:
Why is everything beyond 4400 with Samsung DR B-Die just not bootable?
Is it a training issue?
Would be great if you can make it achieveable 
Because only from 4600 upwards RKL could be faster than CometLake.


4400 17-17-17-37-320 runs just fine. Although of course the performance is mediocre.
1-2 ns can be gained by forcing the cache to 46 which is quite thirsty.

500% HCI Memtest








1h GSAT








1h Prime non AVX Custom








AIDA


----------



## encrypted11

Nizzen said:


> If I can't get 4533+ working on Dualrank 11900k, I swear I will throw it in the garbage VERY soon! 🤬


Try tuning ODTs NOM WR PARK, DLLBwEn, IMC / SA PLL?
I don't know a good ODT value for B-die. Haven't owned one in 2 years.


----------



## E-Curbi2

Speed Racer  

Office work machine, ho hum, I'm trying my best.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> So how is this performance compared to other systems?
> z590 Apex
> 11900k stock
> 3090 strix oc white stock
> 4400c17 2x16 b-die "max tweaked"
> <<Prioritize performance>> Setting in game 1080p
> 
> Look @ numbers cpu/gpu between Bar OFF and BAR ON
> 
> Bar OFF
> View attachment 2487904


That's almost 30 fps faster than what I got on 0062!
I double-checked, and with 0707 I can also reach 225 fps with memory at 3866 MHz and CPU multipliers at stock!

EDIT:
0062:









0707:


----------



## E-Curbi2

I'm sorry guys, I tried to transfer my single thread results to a simple build log and the moderator took it down. 

Why?


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I've only seen it with a single dimm. For dual-channel even 4000 would not be easy.


From what I've seen 3800 is reasonable for ambient benching.


----------



## YoungChris

E-Curbi2 said:


> I'm kinda glad I only bought the 6core 11600K $339USD from Siliconlottery, I'm only building an office work machine, still would love the lowest AIDA latency possible 40ns seems ok if I can grab 5000Mhz - wishful thinking.
> 
> View attachment 2487913


lowest Aida possible? In about a week or two I'll be shooting for the 30-33ns range for Gear 1 and maybe the 38-41ns range Gear 2 with low CPU clocks.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> lowest Aida possible? In about a week or two I'll be shooting for the 30-33ns range for Gear 1 and maybe the 38-41ns range Gear 2 with low CPU clocks.


1:1 4000 14-14 gear 1 was 35.9ns in aida. Probably you need to go 4000 12-12 gear 1 to reach 32ns.


----------



## E-Curbi2

YoungChris said:


> lowest Aida possible? In about a week or two I'll be shooting for the 30-33ns range for Gear 1 and maybe the 38-41ns range Gear 2 with low CPU clocks.


I right there brother. hoping my Gskill 4600/18 kit can perform well with the new RKL IMC. 

I'm limited by air, and I don't care!


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> So how is this performance compared to other systems?
> z590 Apex
> 11900k stock
> 3090 strix oc white stock
> 4400c17 2x16 b-die "max tweaked"
> <<Prioritize performance>> Setting in game 1080p
> 
> Look @ numbers cpu/gpu between Bar OFF and BAR ON
> 
> Bar OFF
> View attachment 2487904
> 
> 
> BAR ON
> 
> View attachment 2487911


yeah thats what i am seeing also
11900k when rebar is bad the effect is 20-30% drop. 10900 only 10%


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 1:1 4000 14-14 gear 1 was 35.9ns in aida. Probably you need to go 4000 12-12 gear 1 to reach 32ns.


3900 c12 1t sr bdie can do that


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## cstkl1

thats 4400


----------



## cstkl1

E-Curbi2 said:


> n
> 
> Wow, I have a 4600/18 kit, is 40ns range the best we can expect from RKL?
> 
> View attachment 2487912


5kc17 dr maybe can touch 39
5200c17 sr


----------



## mount333

Do we have any conclusions here? so far 11900K just seems like an interesting option for memory OC and PCIe 4.0.


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> 5kc17 dr maybe can touch 39
> 5200c17 sr


I have some of my own test videos. With Z490 Apex, my test shows 40.4ns with 5066 CL15.




If Z590 Apex shows lower latency with the same setting, 39ns is possible.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> I have some of my own test videos. With Z490 Apex, my test shows 40.4ns with 5066 CL15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Z590 Apex shows lower latency with the same setting, 39ns is possible.


@safedisk
he did 34ns on his bdie sr.


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> @safedisk
> he did 34ns on his bdie sr.


I am just sharing my experience that even 5000 cl15 can't touch 39ns with Z490 apex. not to compete with someone.
Anyway, thanks for lots of info you have shared with this community.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> I am just sharing my experience that even 5000 cl15 can't touch 39ns with Z490 apex. not to compete with someone.
> Anyway, thanks for lots of info you have shared with this community.


i know. infact u did that hci stable really impressive

i am waiting for my bdie sr kits .

z590 apex afaik has lower latency higher copy bios.
bdie sr on it doesnt loose out much to dr atm. only hci coverage speed slightly

based on safedisk aidas ya.


----------



## menko2

Arni90 said:


> So your reason for not helping other people is that you feel insulted? Insulted by someone you don't know, who doesn't know what they're talking about?
> 
> 
> Seriously?


Armi90 don't waste your time with this guy. I wish his level of knowledge (which is a lot) was the same as his level of a nice person. But they are quite the opposite. 

He doesn't need to be insulted not to help. He also insult people with no reason because we are in a low level of knowledge about overclock and all this.

Talk to Nizzen instead. Much better guy.


----------



## cstkl1

@sugi0lover 
watch your youtube
your 5k vs 5066

was 5066 easier than 5k on training?


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 1:1 4000 14-14 gear 1 was 35.9ns in aida. Probably you need to go 4000 12-12 gear 1 to reach 32ns.


IMC wise, might be tough. Memory wise, not even a challenge.


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> @sugi0lover
> watch your youtube
> your 5k vs 5066
> 
> was 5066 easier than 5k on training?


5066 was harder than 5k.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> 5066 was harder than 5k.


in djr dr/sr was other way arnd. 5066 easier.


----------



## roooo

Esenel said:


> @shamino1978
> Bios 0707:
> Why is everything beyond 4400 with Samsung B-Die just not bootable?


I assume you mean DR? Because two of my kits are Samsung B-Die SR and they do boot fine up to 5066 with 0707 (M13A, 11900K).


----------



## roooo

Here's something really interesting I observed, maybe others can confirm this: My two B-Die SR 2x8GB kits (Gskill F4-4600C18 and F4-4800C18) are both very sensitive to a too high VCCIO Mem OC voltage. The sweet spot seems to be around 1.20..1.27V even for high clocks and/or tight timings. However, as soon as I go past 1.35..1.40, memtests are starting to throw (more) errors. This is with M13A 0707 and 11900K. Maybe this info is helpful for those who are trying to get B-Die running...


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Here's something really interesting I observed, maybe others can confirm this: My two B-Die SR 2x8GB kits (Gskill F4-4600C18 and F4-4800C18) are both very sensitive to a too high VCCIO Mem OC voltage. The sweet spot seems to be around 1.20..1.27V even for high clocks and/or tight timings. However, as soon as I go past 1.35..1.40, memtests are starting to throw (more) errors. This is with M13A 0707 and 11900K. Maybe this info is helpful for those who are trying to get B-Die running...


100:100 vs 100:133 has diff traits also

also i tend to stick to lowest that boots


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> 100:100 vs 100:133 has diff traits also


Thanks - I forgot to mention I was referring to 100:133 exclusively, because I tried to avoid 100:100 until now. Does the "100:100 = Evil" still hold with current BIOS versions?


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Thanks - I forgot to mention I was referring to 100:133 exclusively, because I tried to avoid 100:100 until now. Does the "100:100 = Evil" still hold with current BIOS versions?


SA

bdie dr
4400c17 needed 1.2
100:133 4533 can boot even 0.9 sa. currently stable testing 1.05
[email protected] bclk 98.6 on 4600 multi need 1.2

Djr dr
4800c19 100:133
sa / io 1.2
5000c19 100:100
sa/io 1.35-1.4
5066c19 100:133
sa/io 1.25

SR kits behave totally diff more mcio prone.
5333c20 was easier than 5200/5400


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> So how is this performance compared to other systems?
> z590 Apex
> 11900k stock
> 3090 strix oc white stock
> 4400c17 2x16 b-die "max tweaked"
> <<Prioritize performance>> Setting in game 1080p
> 
> Look @ numbers cpu/gpu between Bar OFF and BAR ON
> 
> Bar OFF
> View attachment 2487904
> 
> 
> BAR ON
> 
> View attachment 2487911


10900k 5.5


----------



## Talon2016

Thanh Nguyen said:


> 10900k 5.5
> 
> View attachment 2488020


Damn it really took 5.5Ghz to keep up with a stock RKL CPU? Impressive for RKL. Also you ran custom run vs the stock prefer performance profile so hard to know what you changed.


----------



## IronAge

SB got some AIDA64 Benchmark with high SR Micon E-Die 1:2 ?


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> So how is this performance compared to other systems?
> z590 Apex
> 11900k stock
> 3090 strix oc white stock
> 4400c17 2x16 b-die "max tweaked"
> <<Prioritize performance>> Setting in game 1080p
> 
> Look @ numbers cpu/gpu between Bar OFF and BAR ON
> 
> Bar OFF
> View attachment 2487904
> 
> 
> BAR ON
> 
> View attachment 2487911


----------



## bscool

@domdtxdissar is that with rebar on or off?


----------



## domdtxdissar

bscool said:


> @domdtxdissar is that with rebar on or off?


rebar off
In all games ive tested rebar reduce performance.. Its a joke with Nvidia

This is Zero Dawn with lowest 50% res scale


----------



## napata

domdtxdissar said:


> rebar off
> In all games ive tested rebar reduce performance.. Its a joke with Nvidia
> 
> This is Zero Dawn with lowest 50% res scale
> View attachment 2488030


If I look at Nizzen's results Rebar increases performance by a lot if you're GPU bottlenecked. This comes at the cost of CPU performance though, but most people will be GPU bottlenecked in games. Not sure if the same happens on AMD GPUs.


----------



## Kana Chan

cstkl1 said:


> SA
> 
> bdie dr
> 4400c17 needed 1.2
> 100:133 4533 can boot even 0.9 sa. currently stable testing 1.05
> [email protected] bclk 98.6 on 4600 multi need 1.2
> 
> Djr dr
> 4800c19 100:133
> sa / io 1.2
> 5000c19 100:100
> sa/io 1.35-1.4
> 5066c19 100:133
> sa/io 1.25
> 
> SR kits behave totally diff more mcio prone.
> 5333c20 was easier than 5200/5400


By any chance you could also test [email protected] 125 bclk 100:100 and [email protected] 125 bclk 100:133? Any differences vs the above?


----------



## cstkl1

Kana Chan said:


> By any chance you could also test [email protected] 125 bclk 100:100 and [email protected] 125 bclk 100:133? Any differences vs the above?


got to do that with djr . my sr bdie kit hasnt arrived. 

normally i dont do high bclk cause i depend on v/f .. asus bclk v/f does auto adjustments but hmm might have stress test more cause of cache

can try later bro . atm testing bdie dr consistency

1:1 3866 is good, 4400c17 good. 4533 seems like vref.


----------



## cstkl1

napata said:


> If I look at Nizzen's results Rebar increases performance by a lot if you're GPU bottlenecked. This comes at the cost of CPU performance though, but most people will be GPU bottlenecked in games. Not sure if the same happens on AMD GPUs.


huh. other way around. rebar off good. 

when rebar doesnt work rkl takes a massive hit. cml might get -9 to 10%.. but rkl in some games i tested when rebar screwed up 20-30%. watch dog legion and f1 2020 for example. 

the only game rebar works superbly is ac valhalla
its independent of dlss etc.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> got to do that with djr . my sr bdie kit hasnt arrived.
> 
> normally i dont do high bclk cause i depend on v/f .. asus bclk v/f does auto adjustments but hmm might have stress test more cause of cache
> 
> can try later bro . atm testing bdie dr consistency
> 
> 1:1 3866 is good, 4400c17 good. 4533 seems like vref.


How would you tell it’s a vref issue, I’ve tried the same thing on z490 apex and dr bdie gets inconsistent 4500 and above, changing vref didn’t help, manual odts etc too.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> So how is this performance compared to other systems?
> z590 Apex
> 11900k stock
> 3090 strix oc white stock
> 4400c17 2x16 b-die "max tweaked"
> <<Prioritize performance>> Setting in game 1080p
> 
> Look @ numbers cpu/gpu between Bar OFF and BAR ON
> 
> Bar OFF
> View attachment 2487904
> 
> 
> BAR ON
> 
> View attachment 2487911


Test it with Bar Support off, 1 time with [email protected] and one time with oc.
You will see you will do more FPS like i, i have not the same version as you^^, so no real compare to show more fps.
You can reach much more.

It´s better to compare with game´s like anno 1800, where are only few Core´s used and heavy CPU limited.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> How would you tell it’s a vref issue, I’ve tried the same thing on z490 apex and dr bdie gets inconsistent 4500 and above, changing vref didn’t help, manual odts etc too.


when u pust dram vtt to a nonsensical level and see temporary improvement. (after training) not during. 

or situation where lower vdimm trains and not higher..

that kind of thing

recommend tm5 for this. choose more cycle configs.


----------



## safedisk

Nizzen said:


> Care to share bios CMO profile? ❤


This is my 4700 setting. 

BCLK Frequency [103.7000]

Maximus Tweak [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
DRAM Command Rate [1N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [310]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
DRAM Write Latency [14]

Round Trip Latency [Enabled]

tRDRD_sg_Training [Auto]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
tRDRD_dg_Training [Auto]
tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
tRDWR_sg [14]
tRDWR_dg [14]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [5]
tRDRD_dd [5]
tRDWR_dr [14]
tRDWR_dd [14]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [7]
tWRRD_dr [5]
tWRRD_dd [5]
TWRPRE [Auto]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]
TXP [Auto]
PPD [Auto]

CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
DRAM Voltage [1.54000]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.25000]
VCCIO Mem OC Voltage [1.45000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Manual Mode]
- CPU VCCSA Voltage Override [1.40000]
PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
PCH VCCIN 1.8V [Auto]


----------



## safedisk

2500k_2 said:


> Impressive. Please share a screenshot of the timing configurator.
> What is the Dram voltage?


Hey Here my memory timing settings.

BCLK Frequency [103.7000]

Maximus Tweak [Auto]
DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
DRAM Command Rate [1N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [310]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
DRAM Write Latency [14]

Round Trip Latency [Enabled]

tRDRD_sg_Training [Auto]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
tRDRD_dg_Training [Auto]
tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
tRDWR_sg [14]
tRDWR_dg [14]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [27]
tWRRD_dg [23]
tRDRD_dr [5]
tRDRD_dd [5]
tRDWR_dr [14]
tRDWR_dd [14]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [7]
tWRRD_dr [5]
tWRRD_dd [5]
TWRPRE [Auto]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]
TXP [Auto]
PPD [Auto]

CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
DRAM Voltage [1.54000]
CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.25000]
VCCIO Mem OC Voltage [1.45000]
CPU System Agent Voltage [Manual Mode]
- CPU VCCSA Voltage Override [1.40000]
PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
PCH VCCIN 1.8V [Auto]


----------



## cstkl1

feature requested. 
was added. 
consistency looking very good.


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2488075
> 
> 
> feature requested.
> was added.
> consistency looking very good.


Nice, did changing vref help this?


----------



## fray_bentos

safedisk said:


> Hey Here my memory timing settings.
> 
> BCLK Frequency [103.7000]


So RKL has no 103 MHz BLCK cap like 8th to 10th gen, or has it never been capped on the non-K variants? e.g. could a 11500(F), 11600(F), 11700(F) be overclocked using BCLK, or do they have a BCLK limit?
Edit: on further reading it seems just non-K variants have a BCLK cap.


----------



## Arlina

Is there any tip you can give to lower latency for rocket lake? Like round trip latency and ppd. i use msi z490 board.


----------



## Nizzen

Arlina said:


> Is there any tip you can give to lower latency for rocket lake? Like round trip latency and ppd. i use msi z490 board.


Buy 10900k LOL


----------



## Lownage

safedisk said:


> This is my 4700 setting.
> 
> BCLK Frequency [103.7000]
> 
> Maximus Tweak [Auto]
> DRAM CAS# Latency [17]
> DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [17]
> DRAM RAS# ACT Time [32]
> DRAM Command Rate [1N]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
> DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time [310]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
> DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
> DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
> DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
> DRAM READ to PRE Time [8]
> DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [6]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [6]
> DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [2]
> DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [4]
> DRAM Write Latency [14]
> 
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> 
> tRDRD_sg_Training [Auto]
> tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
> tRDRD_dg_Training [Auto]
> tRDRD_dg_Runtime [4]
> tRDWR_sg [14]
> tRDWR_dg [14]
> tWRWR_sg [6]
> tWRWR_dg [4]
> tWRRD_sg [27]
> tWRRD_dg [23]
> tRDRD_dr [5]
> tRDRD_dd [5]
> tRDWR_dr [14]
> tRDWR_dd [14]
> tWRWR_dr [7]
> tWRWR_dd [7]
> tWRRD_dr [5]
> tWRRD_dd [5]
> TWRPRE [Auto]
> TRDPRE [Auto]
> tREFIX9 [Auto]
> OREF_RI [Auto]
> TXP [Auto]
> PPD [Auto]
> 
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Auto]
> DRAM Voltage [1.54000]
> CPU VCCIO Voltage [1.25000]
> VCCIO Mem OC Voltage [1.45000]
> CPU System Agent Voltage [Manual Mode]
> - CPU VCCSA Voltage Override [1.40000]
> PLL Termination Voltage [Auto]
> PCH VCCIN 1.8V [Auto]


 Sadly this doesnt work for me. Even at 4533 no boot


----------



## satinghostrider

Setting up my 11900k with the Aorus Master. Will be up running in a few days time hopefully!


----------



## napata

cstkl1 said:


> huh. other way around. rebar off good.
> 
> when rebar doesnt work rkl takes a massive hit. cml might get -9 to 10%.. but rkl in some games i tested when rebar screwed up 20-30%. watch dog legion and f1 2020 for example.
> 
> the only game rebar works superbly is ac valhalla
> its independent of dlss etc.


Nizzen's results speak for themselves: you gain GPU performance & take a hit in CPU performance. Again, if you're GPU bottlenecked Rebar seems good & most people are going to be GPU bottlenecked.
If Rebar doesn't work then it shouldn't influence anything. WD & F1 are both games that support Rebar though so I assume you're talking about a CPU bottlenecked scenario? In those cases it's indeed better to disable it.

If RL takes a bigger hit than CL then it's also not certain if that's the case on AMD GPUs as it might be a GPU driver thing.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Booted 3866 dual rank, tested up to dimm temp 60c stable. Will try 4000 later.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - SP89
M13A - Bios 0707

Stock CPU LLC2
[email protected] 
SA/MCIO - 1.05/1.25


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## Feklar

Is that you?


----------



## cstkl1

Feklar said:


> Is that you?


?? me?? no.. my name is Low T.J .. 🤫🤫🤫


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

DR 4000 is still no go...working on gear 1 3866 now


----------



## eeroo94

Is this good/bad with 11700k?


----------



## encrypted11

The average 11900K has SP 70+
Above average/good SP 80+
Really good / lotto winner 90+


----------



## cstkl1

eeroo94 said:


> Is this good/bad with 11700k?
> 
> View attachment 2488261


which ucode

example


----------



## eeroo94

cstkl1 said:


> which ucode
> 
> example
> View attachment 2488263


3C, 0704 bios.


----------



## aznguyen316

eeroo94 said:


> Is this good/bad with 11700k?
> 
> View attachment 2488261


For an 11700K I would say it’s above average. 

I’ve seen 57, 62 and 64 for 11700k first hand.


----------



## GanjaSMK

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> DR 4000 is still no go...working on gear 1 3866 now
> View attachment 2488238


OMG YOUR 12V IS 5V LOW.  Softare NFTW.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

GanjaSMK said:


> OMG YOUR 12V IS 5V LOW.  Softare NFTW.


ummm...would be surprised how my hardware can survive 😁


----------



## cstkl1

eeroo94 said:


> 3C, 0704 bios.


your cpu arnd the same as es/review 11900k


----------



## shamino1978

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> DR 4000 is still no go...working on gear 1 3866 now


special tweak only engage for short range below 4000 to be safe
so added tweak to maximus tweak mode 2 for a much wider range without affecting normal XMPs: just choose mode 2 in below bios








Apex_moremod.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com




this also has the eventual vtt voltage cstk1 asked for
m12








M12A_Mod.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## YaqY

shamino1978 said:


> special tweak only engage for short range below 4000 to be safe
> so added tweak to maximus tweak mode 2 for a much wider range without affecting normal XMPs: just choose mode 2 in below bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex_moremod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this also has the eventual vtt voltage cstk1 asked for
> m12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M12A_Mod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


What bios is the M12A bios based on? I assume 2103.


----------



## shamino1978

YaqY said:


> What bios is the M12A bios based on? I assume 2103.


yes


----------



## encrypted11

i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4800Mhz-C19-28-28-48-1T----1.66V---SA 1.2V---MCIO 1.26V---Stressapptest----1 Hour










Trying mem OC on my SP89, turns out the IMC is a lot more finicky requiring specific voltage ranges for SA/IO to stay away from errors.

My SP85 would train 5066MHz C20 1T easily though it needs a little more voltage in the IMC and does away with 10-20mV less VDIMM at each frequency point. SP89 has a noticeable hard wall with memory scaling, mostly no POST up till 1.4V SA/IO for 5066 C20.

Might attempt 5066 C20 1T GSAT 1H on my SP85 soon.


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4800Mhz-C19-28-28-48-1T----1.66V---SA 1.2V---MCIO 1.26V---Stressapptest----1 Hour
> 
> View attachment 2488354
> 
> 
> Trying mem OC on my SP89, turns out the IMC is a lot more finicky requiring specific voltage ranges for SA/IO to stay away from errors.
> 
> My SP85 would train 5066MHz C20 1T easily though it needs a little more voltage in the IMC and does away with 10-20mV less VDIMM at each frequency point. SP89 has a noticeable hard wall with memory scaling, mostly no POST up till 1.4V SA/IO for 5066 C20.
> 
> Might attempt 5066 C20 1T GSAT 1H on my SP85 soon.


odd. i havent seen 11900k on gear 2 showing any diff on imc ..

maybe gear 1 or the upper ranges of gear 2.

interesting. 

you verified your cpu sp on which board bro?


----------



## encrypted11

Z590-I STRIX 0704

Yes it's probably going to be the upper ranges of a daily OC.


cstkl1 said:


> odd. i havent seen 11900k on gear 2 showing any diff on imc ..
> 
> maybe gear 1 or the upper ranges of gear 2.
> 
> interesting.
> 
> you verified your cpu sp on which board bro?


----------



## cstkl1

encrypted11 said:


> Z590-I STRIX 0704
> 
> Yes it's probably going to be the upper ranges of a daily OC.


strix-E most probably can run that DR DJR 4800C19 with much better timings and better bandwidth/latency bro...

dump that unify

lol


----------



## omeds

What would be regarded as safe SA voltage 24/7? Currently running 4 x 3733 CL14 with 11900k SP94 and 0707 BIOS on MH13. Was hoping to push it to 3866 for now before venturing into gear 2 mode.

Can anyone recommend timings to tighten for sub 40ns? Currently ~43-44ns in AIDA just using BIOS mode 2. Complete n00b with memory OC, I usually just follow guides and hope for the best with each new build.

Asrock timing config isn't reading timings correctly, any idea why?












Thanks


----------



## cstkl1

omeds said:


> What would be regarded as safe SA voltage 24/7? Currently running 4 x 3733 CL14 with 11900k SP94 and 0707 BIOS on MH13. Was hoping to push it to 3866 for now before venturing into gear 2 mode.
> 
> Can anyone recommend timings to tighten for sub 40ns? Currently ~43-44ns in AIDA just using BIOS mode 2. Complete n00b with memory OC, I usually just follow guides and hope for the best with each new build.
> 
> Asrock timing config isn't reading timings correctly, any idea why?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2488356
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


get the updated one listed in the z590 oc formula mobo thread


----------



## omeds

That's better, thank you.


----------



## Arni90

omeds said:


> That's better, thank you.
> 
> View attachment 2488357


Under memory training algorithms, set _Round Trip Latency _to _Enabled_


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

shamino1978 said:


> special tweak only engage for short range below 4000 to be safe
> so added tweak to maximus tweak mode 2 for a much wider range without affecting normal XMPs: just choose mode 2 in below bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex_moremod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thank you for this modification. Briefly tried this BIOS, under mode 2 is still a no go for DR 4000, probably it just walled by my imc 💀


----------



## Arni90

So I did some testing regarding power consumption and voltage requirements: 11900k V/F testing

This was done with a custom loop, and the minimum required VCore to run Cinebench R23.
As this was with water temperatures around 25C, and not 5C, I couldn't get 5.3 GHz to pass
It's easy to see why the 11900K doesn't have a 5.0 GHz all-core boost at stock.

EDIT: LLC was set to 4


----------



## eeroo94

Arni90 said:


> So I did some testing regarding power consumption and voltage requirements: 11900k V/F testing
> 
> 
> 
> This was done with a custom loop, and the minimum required VCore to run Cinebench R23.
> 
> As this was with water temperatures around 25C, and not 5C, I couldn't get 5.3 GHz to pass
> 
> It's easy to see why the 11900K doesn't have a 5.0 GHz all-core boost at stock.


What LLC level you used for your tests?


----------



## encrypted11

cstkl1 said:


> strix-E most probably can run that DR DJR 4800C19 with much better timings and better bandwidth/latency bro...
> 
> dump that unify
> 
> lol


I need ITXs for my Dan A4s

That OC was cooled by a 92mm AIO and case airflow with a secondary A9x14 so it's not going to beat an ATX. 
Very restrictive airflow around the DIMMs so the numbers weren't too bad. Btw it does run around 530 tRFC and RDWR at 14 GSAT but I needed a quick run for my SP89 because its IMC is a time hog.

That was my best BOLT XR pair, not great but not too shabby. I'm almost walled with my RAMs.


----------



## bigcid10

Esenel said:


> @shamino1978
> Bios 0707:
> Why is everything beyond 4400 with Samsung DR B-Die just not bootable?
> Is it a training issue?
> Would be great if you can make it achieveable
> Because only from 4600 upwards RKL could be faster than CometLake.
> 
> 
> 4400 17-17-17-37-320 runs just fine. Although of course the performance is mediocre.
> 1-2 ns can be gained by forcing the cache to 46 which is quite thirsty.
> 
> 500% HCI Memtest
> View attachment 2487920
> 
> 1h GSAT
> View attachment 2487921
> 
> 1h Prime non AVX Custom
> View attachment 2487923
> 
> AIDA
> View attachment 2487924


Thank you for this post ,I was having a hard time getting over the 4266 hump
with my gskill 3600 b-dies
your post really helped me out and gave me some direction
next job is to try and get the latency down to >45ns


----------



## Falkentyne

bigcid10 said:


> Thank you for this post ,I was having a hard time getting over the 4266 hump
> with my gskill 3600 b-dies
> your post really helped me out and gave me some direction
> next job is to try and get the latency down to >45ns


The reason why you have 4400 CL 17 stable is because your bandwidth is lower than expected.
I get faster scores at 4266.










Worth noting that I can get 69.8k read at 4400 17/17/39, but I was simply unable to stabilize it no matter what I did. Might have to use skews but I don't have the time to spend hours testing skews. And the old 80/48/40 seemed unstable on 11900k but works on 10900k.

If you want the timings: + PPD0 and DLLBWEN 0 (no idea if this does anything) + Round Trip Latency enabled.


----------



## bigcid10

Falkentyne said:


> The reason why you have 4400 CL 17 stable is because your bandwidth is lower than expected.
> I get faster scores at 4266.
> 
> View attachment 2488446


probably,my board is the reason
any advice would be appreciated,thank you


----------



## bigcid10

bigcid10 said:


> probably,my board is the reason
> any advice would be appreciated,thank you


ok,thank you
will give it a go and report back

here are the full timings ,any adjustments needed?
also ,should I go to manual vcore or offset and what would you advise ?
Thank you


----------



## Bilco

Question about the DDR4 DIMM.2 slot on these apex boards: If you occupy them with nvme drives does this impact the IMC/memory overclocking capabilities of the board? Can't seem to find the answer anywhere.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Question about the DDR4 DIMM.2 slot on these apex boards: If you occupy them with nvme drives does this impact the IMC/memory overclocking capabilities of the board? Can't seem to find the answer anywhere.


It goes through PCH so probably only affects the ring.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> Question about the DDR4 DIMM.2 slot on these apex boards: If you occupy them with nvme drives does this impact the IMC/memory overclocking capabilities of the board? Can't seem to find the answer anywhere.


no. 

it impacts the ram only because of proximity and height which is a pain for airflow.


----------



## kylethepenguin

Hey Nizzen


Nizzen said:


> Buy 10900k LOL


Hey Nizzen, sorry for the awkward quote. I know earlier in this thread you mentioned you had purchased these Thermaltake RAM:

R009D408GX2-4600C19A

Did you have any advice for tuning it with the 11900k? I'd be happy to get some advice as I'm going to take the plunge to upgrade from my 3733mhz 15-15-15-32 TRFC 300 oc'd b-die. I want to get a chance to push the mhz!


----------



## YoungChris

shamino1978 said:


> special tweak only engage for short range below 4000 to be safe
> so added tweak to maximus tweak mode 2 for a much wider range without affecting normal XMPs: just choose mode 2 in below bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex_moremod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this also has the eventual vtt voltage cstk1 asked for
> m12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M12A_Mod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Any chance you could release bioses for M12A that allow for tRAS below 28? It appears Gigabyte has an advantage in SuperPi there.








Also, reports from Gigabyte users is that new bios/microcode is good for both SuperPi and Geekbench 3, so separate old bios may not be needed.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> Any chance you could release bioses for M12A that allow for tRAS below 28? It appears Gigabyte has an advantage in SuperPi there.
> View attachment 2488470
> 
> Also, reports from Gigabyte users is that new bios/microcode is good for both SuperPi and Geekbench 3, so separate old bios may not be needed.


again you made an assumption rkl optimization is from ucode only bro.

that mod bios for sp32m is based on tuning before + older ucode + current tweak

the bios numbering using old number was just a convenience factor. they can name it anything they want. its just a sp32m specific bios.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Any 11900k here beat this in f1 2020 ?


----------



## YaqY

I thought tras was limited to 28 on mainstream intel with our current platforms. Is that tras at 14 even doing anything or is it just a change via memtweakit program?


----------



## cstkl1

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Any 11900k here beat this in f1 2020 ?
> View attachment 2488479
> 
> 
> View attachment 2488475


stock 11900k, stock 3080 strix, xmp 3866c14 (testing)
374/464/500

testing 3866 issue in the past that use to hang after awhile. so far nothing. completed 3 session of v2 dlc map on cata/legend.. thats like 4 hours.


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> again you made an assumption rkl optimization is from ucode only bro.
> 
> that mod bios for sp32m is based on tuning before + older ucode + current tweak
> 
> the bios numbering using old number was just a convenience factor. they can name it anything they want. its just a sp32m specific bios.


No, I did not assume RKL optimization from microcode alone. I remember Coffee and Comet Lake, where different bioses could have significantly different performance regardless of what microcode was included.
From what I understand for the M13A:
The SuperPi bios (0409) is a modification of an old bios (the important detail) and happens to use old microcode (24, the less important detail).
The general OC use bios (0707) is a new bios with various new optimizations relevant to more modern benchmarks (the important detail) and happens to use new microcode (3c, the less important detail).
What I heard was that the most recent XOC bios for the Tachyon, X2g, was reported to be better for both SuperPi (WinXP 32bit, single threaded, prefers Gear 1, old) and Geekbench 3 (Win10 64bit, multi threaded, prefers Gear 2, newish). I have not seen side by side comparisons.
I have done side by side comparisons on Coffee and Comet Lake.


----------



## YoungChris

YaqY said:


> I thought tras was limited to 28 on mainstream intel with our current platforms. Is that tras at 14 even doing anything or is it just a change via memtweakit program?


I have seen some side by side scores, it is direct booted from bios and does have tangible benefits in at least SuperPi.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> I have seen some side by side scores, it is direct booted from bios and does have tangible benefits in at least SuperPi.


should be pseudo


----------



## Arni90

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Any 11900k here beat this in f1 2020 ?
> View attachment 2488479
> 
> 
> View attachment 2488475


11900K @ 5.1 / 4.7
3866 14-14-28







Standard benchmark settings (Australia, Clear, Cycle)


----------



## omeds

Thanks guys, I enabled round trip latency training and dropped tRCD and tRP to 14, and tRFC to 374 and achieved the following at 3733 x 4 . Ran memtest included in BIOS and it completed 4 passes all good.




















Chip seems like a decent one:

















Thanks for your help guys. I would really appreciate any more tips you can offer for memory. Once memory is sorted out I'll work on CPU boost frequencies.


----------



## roooo

Um...a kinda stupid and little OT question: the time I set to UTC+2 in BIOS will occasionally/frequently be reset to UTC+0 even if I do not reset BIOS settings. This occurs with both M13A and M13H. Did I miss some switch? Is this a bug?!


----------



## safedisk

Memory Timing TRAS Fix and Improve system performance
0801 and 0070 bios Can be set below TRAS 28

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0801 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0801.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0801 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0801.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME 0801 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0801.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL 0801 BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-GLACIAL-ASUS-0801.7z

*For SUPERPI and Windows 7 support (APEX 0070 BIOS)
This is an old BIOS, so it is recommended to use it only when running SUPERPI. Because the latest BIOS has better performance*
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0070.7z


----------



## omeds

What sort of dram voltage are you running for that? Great results. What SA? I'm just after tips and hints. This is a 24/7 gaming rig, but I don't mind pushing it along with voltages. 

Also what's the RKL consensus for gaming rig? Higher memory speed 1:2, say 4266 to 4800, or much tighter timings 1:1 3733-3866 ?


----------



## roooo

omeds said:


> Also what's the RKL consensus for gaming rig? Higher memory speed 1:2, say 4266 to 4800, or much tighter timings 1:1 3733-3866 ?


This will to some degree depend on game and settings, but it appears that most games will prefer Gear 1 due to the lower latency. YMMV, though... ;-)


----------



## cstkl1

@YoungChris 
nice find


----------



## bscool

roooo said:


> Um...a kinda stupid and little OT question: the time I set to UTC+2 in BIOS will occasionally/frequently be reset to UTC+0 even if I do not reset BIOS settings. This occurs with both M13A and M13H. Did I miss some switch? Is this a bug?!


bios/uefi time will sync with Windows/OS time as far as I know.


----------



## roooo

bscool said:


> bios/uefi time will sync with Windows/OS time as far as I know.


Oh...I thought it was the other way round?! Point is that Windows will in most cases be 2h off and appears to be lazy to sync with the web. Therefore I have to manually force sync time. With Linux this is usually not an issue, because my Ubuntu install will sync with an NTP server upon boot/login.


----------



## omeds

roooo said:


> This will to some degree depend on game and settings, but it appears that most games will prefer Gear 1 due to the lower latency. YMMV, though... ;-)


Ok thanks, think I'll settle on 1:1 speeds then. Plays nicer with 4 sticks.

What about BCLK OC? I don't see a way to lock it to 100 for everything else besides CPU and mem on MH13, am I missing something? Will push it to 102-105 for a little extra mem and core speed if possible.


----------



## pdixon0

Hey guys

Does this sound like my 11700K is dying?

Have been running 52, 52, 50, 50, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49 quite happily with 100:133, Gear 1, 3733MHz DDR4 @ 1.4V, Adaptive Voltage at 1.45V LLC5, VCCIO 1.05V, VCCIO OC 1.35V, VCCSA 1.25V and I had a game crash last night after which I couldn't POST at the same settings. Kept getting 55, 5d, 38 and 3A errors on the board. Been able to get back in today by setting VCCSA to Auto which according to HWiNFO is at 1.376V now. I haven't tried any games as yet as this is not really a comfortable voltage?


----------



## eeroo94

1.25V for SA is probably too low for 3733 1:1.


----------



## Esenel

@shamino1978 
Is there any new bios for SR B Die in sight that I might be able to go beyond 5000?

This is now stable on 0705:

1h GSAT. 1 Prime Custom. 10.000% Karhu. 400% HCI

2x8 4800 17-19-19-39-296 - Gear2 - 1.525VDIMM - 1.10V MIO - 1.10V SA


----------



## musician

pdixon0 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Does this sound like my 11700K is dying?
> 
> Have been running 52, 52, 50, 50, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49 quite happily with 100:133, Gear 1, 3733MHz DDR4 @ 1.4V, Adaptive Voltage at 1.45V LLC5, VCCIO 1.05V, VCCIO OC 1.35V, VCCSA 1.25V and I had a game crash last night after which I couldn't POST at the same settings. Kept getting 55, 5d, 38 and 3A errors on the board. Been able to get back in today by setting VCCSA to Auto which according to HWiNFO is at 1.376V now. I haven't tried any games as yet as this is not really a comfortable voltage?


Well I need to set the VCCSA to 1.44V for 3866. It´s normal.


----------



## roooo

Esenel said:


> @shamino1978
> Is there any new bios for SR B Die in sight that I might be able to go beyond 5000?
> 
> This is now stable on 0705:
> 
> 1h GSAT. 1 Prime Custom. 10.000% Karhu. 400% HCI
> 
> 2x8 4800 17-19-19-39-296 - Gear2 - 1.525VDIMM - 1.10V MIO - 1.10V SA
> View attachment 2488528


I suggest you update your BIOS to 0707 first, because I'm getting ~42.5nm with a little lower R/W/C on 4800-18-18-18-42 CR1. That is, if latency matters for you... ;-)


----------



## Esenel

I guess you have a fixed cache ratio?
I was told 0704 to 0707 is the same basis.


----------



## pdixon0

musician said:


> Well I need to set the VCCSA to 1.44V for 3866. It´s normal.


Ah, OK, phew! I thought it was dying!

Thank you so much, really appreciate the quick responses 👍


----------



## YoungChris

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2488499
> 
> 
> Memory Timing TRAS Fix and Improve system performance
> 0801 and 0070 bios Can be set below TRAS 28
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0801 BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0801.7z
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0801 BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0801.7z
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME 0801 BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0801.7z
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL 0801 BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-GLACIAL-ASUS-0801.7z
> 
> *For SUPERPI (APEX 0070 BIOS)
> This is an old BIOS, so it is recommended to use it only when running SUPERPI. Because the latest BIOS has better performance*
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0070.7z


Will bios equivalent to 0801 and 0070 be released for Maximus XII Apex?


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> should be pseudo


Never said that it should have effect, just that it does. In my experience that applies to a lot of the subtimings that you can "just set to 1" as well.
Whatever it is, tRAS was important enough for safedisk to listen in


----------



## Bilco

So what's Apex XIII bios to be using for good gear 1 timings with DR B bdie?


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> So what's Apex XIII bios to be using for good gear 1 timings with DR B bdie?


the latest. 2x16gb 3866c14 1T not difficult to boot.


----------



## cstkl1

double p


----------



## bscool

I don't think I posted this here yet. I have had a z590 Apex for a few days. Have only messed with it a little. I cannot get dual ranks to boot 4533c18 which I could with z490 Apex and 11900k. So I don't know. Looks like more 11 series beta testing 

Not too impressed so far. Also gear 1 3866 will not boot(1t or 2t). Could be something I am missing but it is weird 4533 DR b die ran on z490 Apex and yet doesn't on z590 with everything the same except MB swap.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I don't think I posted this here yet. I have had a z590 Apex for a few days. Have only messed with it a little. I cannot get dual ranks to boot 4533c18 which I could with z490 Apex and 11900k. So I don't know. Looks like more 11 series beta testing
> 
> Not too impressed so far. Also gear 1 3866 will not boot(1t or 2t). Could be something I am missing but it is weird 4533 DR b die ran on z490 Apex and yet doesn't on z590 with everything the same except MB swap.


3866 2x16gb 1t not difficult to boot
just stable a diff issue

as for 4533. if u can run 4400c17 mcio 1.05, sa 1.2. those timings will propel you for 4533. at this point you will see why the latest bioses has two vtt in tweakers. to stabilize.

but timings need coherency in rkl and its not so forgiving like how ppl were doing in cml and before. theres two examples here i have given for djr dr 4800c19 pdf profile and another 3866c15 timings.

gloss over them.

in rkl so far theres no evidence to support imc quality has a big variation . most of the time its always down to ram chipset and timings.

ram chipset really big diff. in djr sr/dr binning i saw how it affected sa/io.

z490 apex bios on performance < z590 apex. more strain to the io/sa


----------



## aznguyen316

Esenel said:


> Is there any new bios for SR B Die in sight that I might be able to go beyond 5000?




Someone over on reddit posted this on their Z590 Unify-X

Pretty impressive MSI


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/n1h1oq


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> I don't think I posted this here yet. I have had a z590 Apex for a few days. Have only messed with it a little. I cannot get dual ranks to boot 4533c18 which I could with z490 Apex and 11900k. So I don't know. Looks like more 11 series beta testing
> 
> Not too impressed so far. Also gear 1 3866 will not boot(1t or 2t). Could be something I am missing but it is weird 4533 DR b die ran on z490 Apex and yet doesn't on z590 with everything the same except MB swap.


Make sure you can boot SR 4000 first. DR Max is usually 1x back (~133MHz) compared to SR.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

aznguyen316 said:


> Someone over on reddit posted this on their Z590 Unify-X
> 
> Pretty impressive MSI
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/n1h1oq


MSI has done 5066 17-17 stability test already on Unity-X.


----------



## Esenel

As I can do 4800 17-18 1.525VDIMM - 1.10V MIO/SA stable I do not think it is an RAM issue for me.
More a training issue on the M13A for 5k+.


----------



## nmkr

quick test of an upcoming hynix kit from teamgroup, geek score equivalent to 5033 15-14 Bdie, but no Maxmem restriction , so for CB20 etc its maybe an alternative.
also ychrucher passed with ~5500c20 but needs tuning, that avx thingy hits the cache hard, you may need to lower the cache for same settings.

you can find the profile on the latest apex bios (Hynix 5600 Tight) as a starting point, will test the kit on the weekend and can share some timings/settings then if someone interrested.


----------



## musician

I can work with 4533 bdie dr no problem. If I can do it on the Z590 Hero, I am sure that the Z590 Apex can do it as well. However I am playing with 3866, as my daily PC is in a bit warmer environment, and I do need to cool the 4533 with an extra memory vent, or with the case fans on high noisy rpm, to keep it under 45°C. While the higher temp is not a problem at all for the 3866.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

musician said:


> I can work with 4533 bdie dr no problem. If I can do it on the Z590 Hero, I am sure that the Z590 Apex can do it as well. However I am playing with 3866, as my daily PC is in a bit warmer environment, and I do need to cool the 4533 with an extra memory vent, or with the case fans on high noisy rpm, to keep it under 45°C. While the higher temp is not a problem at all for the 3866.


That SA was low for 3866. Maybe you can try 4000 gear 1.


----------



## bscool

Esenel said:


> As I can do 4800 17-18 1.525VDIMM - 1.10V MIO/SA stable I do not think it is an RAM issue for me.
> More a training issue on the M13A for 5k+.


I just tried 5066 with z590 Apex/11900k and it will not boot. With all the same components on z490 Apex I could run 5000+ 

Also cannot get 3866 on single ranks. I wonder if I need to try reflashing bios as I noticed when flashing the bios via flashback it was not updating microcode(was 24) I had to flash bios via EZ flash for the microcode to update to 3c. That doesn't seem right.

About to join @Nizzen with throwing this thing out the window


----------



## cstkl1

aznguyen316 said:


> Someone over on reddit posted this on their Z590 Unify-X
> 
> Pretty impressive MSI
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/n1h1oq


😱



bscool said:


> I just tried 5066 with z590 Apex/11900k and it will not boot. With all the same components on z490 Apex I could run 5000+
> 
> Also cannot get 3866 on single ranks. I wonder if I need to try reflashing bios as I noticed when flashing the bios via flashback it was not updating microcode(was 24) I had to flash bios via EZ flash for the microcode to update to 3c. That doesn't seem right.
> 
> About to join @Nizzen with throwing this thing out the window


sr bdie. i can only check monday. shipment got delayed.

the bug ya.

so are u seeing the wall @Esenel saying on bios 07xx on 5k??


----------



## musician

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That SA was low for 3866. Maybe you can try 4000 gear 1.


4000 does not work.


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> 😱
> 
> 
> sr bdie. i can only check monday. shipment got delayed.
> 
> the bug ya.
> 
> so are u seeing the wall @Esenel saying on bios 07xx on 5k??


I got it to get into Windows once with SR b die at 5066 z590 Apex/11900k and it crashed right away. I didn't spend a lot of time on it. I was on bios 801. I am going to go back and try some older bios and see what happens.


----------



## eeroo94

I have weird problem that I was running 3733 c15 1:1 with 1.4 SA and 1.25 IO, passed 1hour of TM5 and Karhu. Then I tried 4266 1:2 and after that I switched back, but it simply wouldn't train at 3733 1:1 anymore no matter what. Now I'm running 3600c14. This is with Z590-F Strix and 11700k btw.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I got it to get into Windows once with SR b die at 5066 z590 Apex/11900k and it crashed right away. I didn't spend a lot of time on it. I was on bios 801. I am going to go back and try some older bios and see what happens.


that bios.
i stopped using it. i saw whea at stock.

havent had time to recheck. but was told check tvb optimization was enabled or not as 
it doesnt work with rkl since rkl core load cant be differiate as light vs heavy load with reduce vcore

0611 that should be similar to z490


----------



## bscool

@shamino1978 

Ok I confirmed it by flashing back via EZ flash in the EUFI/bios using bios 605 it changed microcode to 34(from 3c was on bios 801). Then using Flashback with bios 707 it does not update microcode to 3c stays at 34. Is that the intended function? so to update the microcode you have to use EZ flash? I have always used Flashback as I thought it was the most thorough.


----------



## bscool

Just ran EZ Flash and results


----------



## aznguyen316

eeroo94 said:


> I have weird problem that I was running 3733 c15 1:1 with 1.4 SA and 1.25 IO, passed 1hour of TM5 and Karhu. Then I tried 4266 1:2 and after that I switched back, but it simply wouldn't train at 3733 1:1 anymore no matter what. Now I'm running 3600c14. This is with Z590-F Strix and 11700k btw.


This happened with me on BIOS 0707. Freq 3733 1:1 booted. I did some stability tests all good for a few hours. Nice. Rebooted, saved profile to test even higher frequency but didn’t boot so I reverted back to 3733 and it wouldn’t boot. Loading saved profile nor manually resetting cmos and inputting values back in as before it wouldn’t train again. Had to go back to 3600 1:1 same timings and it was fine. Kind of annoying but yeah. This was on a 11700k too.


----------



## eeroo94

aznguyen316 said:


> This happened with me on BIOS 0707. Freq 3733 1:1 booted. I did some stability tests all good for a few hours. Nice. Rebooted, saved profile to test even higher frequency but didn’t boot so I reverted back to 3733 and it wouldn’t boot. Loading saved profile nor manually resetting cmos and inputting values back in as before it wouldn’t train again. Had to go back to 3600 1:1 same timings and it was fine. Kind of annoying but yeah. This was on a 11700k too.


Maybe some kind of bug in the BIOS then I was using 0708 BIOS as well ( Strix-f is 0708 instead of 0707 for some reason.)


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> the latest. 2x16gb 3866c14 1T not difficult to boot.


Working on that right now, was able to get 3866c16 2T to post and test stably with 1.38io 1.40sa. At 1.38sa it wouldnt boot, just got a 55 code which, from what I understand, means more SA? 

Should I keep walking things down or do you have any timings & voltages to try to yolo?


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> Working on that right now, was able to get 3866c16 2T to post and test stably with 1.38io 1.40sa. At 1.38sa it wouldnt boot, just got a 55 code which, from what I understand, means more SA?
> 
> Should I keep walking things down or do you have any timings & voltages to try to yolo?


mcio 1.45 sa.. 1.5 to run aida. 1.55 to open memteakit... err i think 1.6v needed to stress test


----------



## aznguyen316

eeroo94 said:


> Maybe some kind of bug in the BIOS then I was using 0708 BIOS as well ( Strix-f is 0708 instead of 0707 for some reason.)


Yeah. 3733 wasn’t booting on the prior bios before that. So 0707 helped with that at least for the time I could boot it. I didn’t try reflashing the same bios though. Wonder if that would’ve fixed it.


----------



## encrypted11

Slight improvement. 58.3K Memory Copy on GSAT from 57.0K.


----------



## Arni90

I just managed 15580 CPU score in Time Spy: I scored 18 764 in Time Spy

1.46V VCore under load, 5.3 GHz all-core


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Working on that right now, was able to get 3866c16 2T to post and test stably with 1.38io 1.40sa. At 1.38sa it wouldnt boot, just got a 55 code which, from what I understand, means more SA?
> 
> Should I keep walking things down or do you have any timings & voltages to try to yolo?


Yeah, 3866 needs a lot of SA, but may not need that much IO.

Here's the 3866 15-15, vdimm 1.45v, IO1 1.15v, mem oc io 1.25v, SA 1.48v llc auto.


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> mcio 1.45 sa.. 1.5 to run aida. 1.55 to open memteakit... err i think 1.6v needed to stress test





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yeah, 3866 needs a lot of SA, but may not need that much IO.
> 
> Here's the 3866 15-15, vdimm 1.45v, IO1 1.15v, mem oc io 1.25v, SA 1.48v llc auto.
> View attachment 2488682


So it seems like daily driving/gaming 3866 seems unreasonable since SA needs to be high? Seems like 3733 is doable.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> So it seems like daily driving/gaming 3866 seems unreasonable since SA needs to be high? Seems like 3733 is doable.


Depends on you. I am totally fine with that SA.


----------



## musician

Bilco said:


> So it seems like daily driving/gaming 3866 seems unreasonable since SA needs to be high? Seems like 3733 is doable.


This is the question


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> Working on that right now, was able to get 3866c16 2T to post and test stably with 1.38io 1.40sa. At 1.38sa it wouldnt boot, just got a 55 code which, from what I understand, means more SA?
> 
> Should I keep walking things down or do you have any timings & voltages to try to yolo?


try both 1.45


----------



## Falkentyne

musician said:


> This is the question  But IMO, SA up to 1.5V could be fine for 24/7. Anyway, I did some experiments with 4400 dr bdie today and I have found a decent 17-16-16-36 build which works surprisingly good for me. However, I have done just few quick stability tests, I will see tomorrow if it takes a tricky loads without an error. If it pass, I will just put a vent on the memory and that´s it. Less SA voltage exchange to more memory voltage hehe, but 1.5V DRAM is still fine for bdie with the vent over it.


Your HWinfo version is obsolete. It's reading both your 12v and your Mem I/O voltage wrong. Can you update it to the newest version?
Also what Mem I/O voltage did you use? Is that 1.43v? And I guess your VCCSA reads correctly at 1.28v.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> So it seems like daily driving/gaming 3866 seems unreasonable since SA needs to be high? Seems like 3733 is doable.


with asus mobo voltage accuracy. seems to be fine for 14nm. but long term nobody knows


----------



## cstkl1

was playing with msi meg carbon and giga elite with 
aorus 4400c19 kit 
and gskill 3600c16d-gtznc

omg msi really garbage 
cant boot 4800

giga easy 5000c19


----------



## encrypted11

Give a try on memory TryIT plus your manual tuning.

I’d say it gives good ODTs.

I bricked 2 Vision D itx’s overclocking memory ( board goes dead in under 10 seconds) on F5c/d when I select High Density for the memory training training algorithm. And I could never get GSAT stable 4266+, also having a hard time figuring out Giga BIOSes where the parameters aren’t in translated well enough into human language.

Feels like a copy paste from reference AMI firmware without much thought process since the Z390 rework, though it’s slowly getting better.

I must say the vision D itx was the best ITX to date. 60+60W USB C-PD or 30+30W at least, based on Aorus Youtube’s ad. ITX with a VRM backplate (Rear). I’m sold on the hardware, Full MLCC & Tantalum caps , with 6 Japanese Nichicon FP caps pretty refreshing that the lowest spec’d pieces of the board is actually a quality part.. I always wanted a MB that would power a future PD charging based laptop and this was almost it.. I’m sold on the hardware but the BIOS needs some serious work.

The strong DPC latency and lack of UAC response also indicates that the power management part of the BIOS needed serious work. GSAT performance was worse than Skylake at any frequency point with Memory channel interleaving and usually enabled settings manually turned on.

Had no issues with ASUS or MSI on DPC latency.


----------



## musician

Falkentyne said:


> Your HWinfo version is obsolete. It's reading both your 12v and your Mem I/O voltage wrong. Can you update it to the newest version?
> Also what Mem I/O voltage did you use? Is that 1.43v? And I guess your VCCSA reads correctly at 1.28v.


Yes I had that version for very long time sorry. Anyway, there is Karhu + OCCT and the new version of hwinfo:

edit: those are the setting in BIOS
DRAM Voltage 1.505V
CPU VCCIO 1.100V
VCCIO MEM 1.430V
CPU VCCSA - manual mode Override 1.300V


----------



## techenth

cstkl1 said:


> was playing with msi meg carbon and giga elite with
> aorus 4400c19 kit
> and gskill 3600c16d-gtznc
> 
> omg msi really garbage
> cant boot 4800
> 
> giga easy 5000c19











MSI MEG Z590 Unify-X Motherboard Hits A Blistering Fast DDR4 7200 MHz Frequency World Record


MSI has achieved the memory frequency world record by pushing DDR4 memory to an insane 7200 MHz on its MEG Z590 Unify-X motherboard.




wccftech.com


----------



## clackersx

I'm currently testing out an MSI Z590i Unify.
11900K, bios 115 beta.

Super annoying bug where VCCSA will ignore set voltage and will just be 1.05V on boot or restarting. Seems to happen randomly, has happened on every voltage I have input.

Sometimes it is fine, sometimes it will just be 1.05 even if 1.4V is set, power off and on again and it will usually go back to what I set.

_*EDIT*_ _just tried to create a ticket with MSI just to report the issue, got a different error message each time and was not able to._


----------



## encrypted11

It's definitely a software readout error at least on HWInfo. I'm seing a lot of sensor readouts with values like T0 216 Celcius.T2 125C. HWinfo is bugged on the 7.0.2 4430 stable release. My 4533/4800 memory overclocks are GSAT stable on cold boots. It is not remotely possible that Intel defaults for SA run 4800MHz memory.

AIDA64 memory benchmarks at 0.0ns when I'm on 5066MHz for memory. The beta fixed it.


----------



## Esenel

3800-14-15-15-35-296 Gear 1 vs 4800 17-19-19-39-296 Gear2

Yeah loosing 11k Copy but reducing latency by 7ns equals out.


----------



## menko2

Esenel said:


> 3800-14-15-15-35-296 Gear 1 vs 4800 17-19-19-39-296 Gear2
> 
> Yeah loosing 11k Copy but reducing latency by 7ns equals out.
> View attachment 2488842


Good comparison.

What resolution and graphic settings do you use for Shadow of the Tomb Raider?


----------



## Nizzen

Esenel said:


> 3800-14-15-15-35-296 Gear 1 vs 4800 17-19-19-39-296 Gear2
> 
> Yeah loosing 11k Copy but reducing latency by 7ns equals out.
> View attachment 2488842


Nice job!
You just made this forum better!


----------



## Esenel

menko2 said:


> Good comparison.
> 
> What resolution and graphic settings do you use for Shadow of the Tomb Raider?


Those settings and this scene.


----------



## IronAge

aznguyen316 said:


> Someone over on reddit posted this on their Z590 Unify-X
> 
> Pretty impressive MSI


Actually yes, high bandwidth with relatively low latency, really looks great, and it's said that it will cost like 300-350$.


----------



## satinghostrider

Just curious which memory kit 2x16gb is able to run tight Gear 1 and high bandwidth like 4800 CL17 Gear 2 relatively well?


----------



## Arni90

satinghostrider said:


> Just curious which memory kit 2x16gb is able to run tight Gear 1 and high bandwidth like 4800 CL17 Gear 2 relatively well?


None.

Tight Gear 1 requires DR B-die.
4800 CL17 requires 16Gb Micron rev. B or DR DJR.

DR B-die seems impossible to run above 4533 MHz, while rev. B or DJR doesn't run tight timings.


----------



## ezsdfl

Hi, all.. Looking for some guidance. I have an i7-11700K in a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D, using the latest F20 bios (which uses 0x34 microcode).

In HWInfo, my core temps briefly drop down to 0c. So something is off with the sensors. I sent the debug log to Martin at HWInfo and he confirmed that the software is reading what the CPU is reporting correctly. I used Core Temp 1.17.1 as well, I experience the same issue.

I'm not sure if it's a microcode issue, the processor itself or, unlikely, the board. The board with an i7-10700K OC to 5.0ghz had been stable for many months. Since I've put this RKL chip in, I'm having one hell of a time overclocking it, even adding +1 across all cores. I've got about 15 days remaining to return it back to Best Buy.

Is anyone else experiencing 0c core temps, if so, I'd chalk it up to a future BIOS fix?


----------



## unclewebb

ezsdfl said:


> 0c core temps


For Intel retail CPUs, it is extremely rare for this to happen. The temperature sensors are located within the CPU. I do not think a future microcode update is going to be able to fix this problem if a sensor has failed. 

Best to exchange it or return it and put your 10700K back in. Nothing wrong with a 10700K that runs reliably at 5.0 GHz.


----------



## Talon2016

ezsdfl said:


> Hi, all.. Looking for some guidance. I have an i7-11700K in a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D, using the latest F20 bios (which uses 0x34 microcode).
> 
> In HWInfo, my core temps briefly drop down to 0c. So something is off with the sensors. I sent the debug log to Martin at HWInfo and he confirmed that the software is reading what the CPU is reporting correctly. I used Core Temp 1.17.1 as well, I experience the same issue.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a microcode issue, the processor itself or, unlikely, the board. The board with an i7-10700K OC to 5.0ghz had been stable for many months. Since I've put this RKL chip in, I'm having one hell of a time overclocking it, even adding +1 across all cores. I've got about 15 days remaining to return it back to Best Buy.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing 0c core temps, if so, I'd chalk it up to a future BIOS fix?


Actually yes I am experiencing that myself as well with my 11900K. This also occurred with my i7 11700K. So I am chalking this up to something wrong with HWInfo64 or BIOS. It doesn't happen very often and is a very brief incorrect reading.


----------



## YoungChris

aznguyen316 said:


> Someone over on reddit posted this on their Z590 Unify-X
> 
> Pretty impressive MSI
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/n1h1oq


that would be me, actually








This came out of day 2.
Aida latency was 37.8ns, bandwidth should be even higher.








Board looks pretty nice so far 
Redoing 5g all core results soon as I'm making yet another OS and I'm also waiting for MSI to post a bios with the tRAS fix. Shooting for 50k at 50 core / 45 cache / 5066c15 very tight SR B-die.
IMC has a lot more trouble when running 8c16t 😔


----------



## aznguyen316

ezsdfl said:


> Hi, all.. Looking for some guidance. I have an i7-11700K in a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D, using the latest F20 bios (which uses 0x34 microcode).
> 
> In HWInfo, my core temps briefly drop down to 0c. So something is off with the sensors. I sent the debug log to Martin at HWInfo and he confirmed that the software is reading what the CPU is reporting correctly. I used Core Temp 1.17.1 as well, I experience the same issue.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a microcode issue, the processor itself or, unlikely, the board. The board with an i7-10700K OC to 5.0ghz had been stable for many months. Since I've put this RKL chip in, I'm having one hell of a time overclocking it, even adding +1 across all cores. I've got about 15 days remaining to return it back to Best Buy.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing 0c core temps, if so, I'd chalk it up to a future BIOS fix?


I’ve seen 0c core temp minimum before, never seen it as current reading. Only on one or maybe two cores. I didn’t think much of it. I did notice it though in HWinfo. Not really worried about it might be a reporting issue.


----------



## Arni90

Looks like DJR memory does good work in y-cruncher: Arni90`s y-cruncher - Pi-1b score: 26sec 961ms with a Core i9 11900K


----------



## ezsdfl

aznguyen316 said:


> I’ve seen 0c core temp minimum before, never seen it as current reading. Only on one or maybe two cores. I didn’t think much of it. I did notice it though in HWinfo. Not really worried about it might be a reporting issue.


I saw the current temp very briefly hit 0c on multiple cores, if I walked away for a bit, when I came back, I would see all of the cores at some point show 0c minimum readings. Something is/was flaky. I ended up returning the i7-11700K tonight for an i9-10850K and downgraded my Gigabyte Z490 Vision D bios back to F7c (the non-RKL enabled BIOS but with Re-BAR support). I would have loved the PCIe 4.0 for my Samsung 980 PRO and 3060 Ti FE (despite it hardly utilizing all of its present bus bandwidth), but whatever... Need stability again. Also, couldn't get a stable OC with it whatsoever -- BSOD Machine Hardware Exceptions errors and the occasional Watchdog, despite slowly creeping up the voltages. Either my chip was bad from the start or they are still working out the kinks in their [0x34++] BIOSes. Sad to move back, but optimistically, have more cores/threads.


----------



## cstkl1

@bscool 
z590 apex bdie SR

something wrong









the difficulty to do this was insane

but xmp 17-19-19 no problem

afaik its a latency issue when the ram gets lower than 43ns for straight 17.. 
its this + the sa which atm doesnt seem to like to go above 1.35..

figuring this out atm


----------



## cstkl1

0801 seems better. this didnt work on auto for 0707


----------



## cstkl1

bios 0801 easy good stuff


----------



## cstkl1

@safedisk told me go get better ram. so i did. lol

gskill F4-4800c17D-16GVK


----------



## bscool

@cstk When you flash the bios what method do you use? I have been doing both Flashback and then follow up with EZ Flash. Because I notice EZ flash leaves the favorites unchanged (I am guessing that is intentional) and now Flashback doesn't update microcode on this Z590 Apex. So it seems like either method only update is partial.

I tested it on z490 Apex and Flashback updates MC so it is a z590 bug or maybe just a bug with my z590 Apex? I have tried different USB sticks and downloading different bios versions and none of that matters.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @cstk When you flash the bios what method do you use? I have been doing both Flashback and then follow up with EZ Flash. Because I notice EZ flash leaves the favorites unchanged (I am guessing that is intentional) and now Flashback doesn't update microcode on this Z590 Apex. So it seems like either method only update is partial.
> 
> I tested it on z490 Apex and Flashback updates MC so it is a z590 bug or maybe just a bug with my z590 Apex? I have tried different USB sticks and downloading different bios versions and none of that matters.


ez flash via bios. favs i dont use them.
asus tunes with respect to ucode. 
so mixing with the bug not a good idea. 

0801 good bro. 4800 mcio 1.05/ sa 1.2


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> @cstk When you flash the bios what method do you use? I have been doing both Flashback and then follow up with EZ Flash. Because I notice EZ flash leaves the favorites unchanged (I am guessing that is intentional) and now Flashback doesn't update microcode on this Z590 Apex. So it seems like either method only update is partial.
> 
> I tested it on z490 Apex and Flashback updates MC so it is a z590 bug or maybe just a bug with my z590 Apex? I have tried different USB sticks and downloading different bios versions and none of that matters.


The flashback button can only update the bios in a pre-defined routine. Use EZ flash in BIOS should be better.


----------



## bscool

@cstkl1 How much are the F4-4800c17D-16GVK selling for? Are they much more than the other high bins like 44000c16 2x8 kits? I cant find them anywhere.


----------



## GtiJason

bscool said:


> @cstkl1 How much are the F4-4800c17D-16GVK selling for? Are they much more than the other high bins like 44000c16 2x8 kits? I cant find them anywhere.


They have not been released yet in the US. I've been checking everyday but expect them to be more than my 4400c16 kit. Newest 2x8gb available bins are 4000c16-16-16-36 @1.4v and 4400c18-24-24-44 @ 1.5v
They should be here any day now along with the rest of the new sku's and the Royal Elite high freq Hynix bins
I did just receive a somewhat interesting bin in the mail today, not G.Skill tho
4000c14-15-15-35


F4-5333C22D-16GT 1.6V SK Hynix DJR 22-32-32-52 G.Skill News

F4-5300C19D-16GTZN 1.65V SK Hynix DJR 19-29-29-49 ? Unify-X QVL

F4-5200C18D-16GTZN 1.6V Samsung 5WB 18-21-21-42 ? Unify-X QVL

F4-5066C20D-16GT 1.6V SK Hynix DJR 20-30-30-50 G.Skill News
• F4-5066C20D-32GT 1.6V SK Hynix DJR 20-30-30-50 G.Skill News

• F4-4800C20D-32GT 1.55V Hynix / Micron 20-30-30-50 G.Skill News

F4-4800C19D-16GT 1.5V Hynix / Micron 19-28-28-48 G.Skill News

F4-4800C19D-16GTRSB 1.55V SK Hynix DJR 19-28-28-48 ? Unify-X QVL

F4-4800C17D-16GT 1.6V Samsung 5WB 17-19-19-39 G.Skill News

F4-4400C18D-16GT 1.5V SK Hynix DJR 18-24-24-44 G.Skill News

• F4-4400C17D-32GT 1.5V Samsung 5WB  17-18-18-38 G.Skill News

• F4-4266C19D-32GT 1.45V Hynix / Micron 19-26-26-46 G.Skill News


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> bios 0801 easy good stuff
> View attachment 2489084


Nice! What kit is that? And is it stable?


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @cstkl1 How much are the F4-4800c17D-16GVK selling for? Are they much more than the other high bins like 44000c16 2x8 kits? I cant find them anywhere.


special order through gskill reseller. price varies as per country and reseller. 




Bilco said:


> Nice! What kit is that? And is it stable?


F4-4800C17D-16GVK

not atm. was just testing booting. 

still at knowing your ram phase.


----------



## cstkl1

GtiJason said:


> They have not been released yet in the US. I've been checking everyday but expect them to be more than my 4400c16 kit. Newest 2x8gb available bins are 4000c16-16-16-36 @1.4v and 4400c18-24-24-44 @ 1.5v
> They should be here any day now along with the rest of the new sku's and the Royal Elite high freq Hynix bins
> I did just receive a somewhat interesting bin in the mail today, not G.Skill tho
> 4000c14-15-15-35
> 
> 
> F4-5333C22D-16GT 1.6V SK Hynix DJR 22-32-32-52 G.Skill News
> 
> F4-5300C19D-16GTZN 1.65V SK Hynix DJR 19-29-29-49 ? Unify-X QVL
> 
> F4-5200C18D-16GTZN 1.6V Samsung 5WB 18-21-21-42 ? Unify-X QVL
> 
> F4-5066C20D-16GT 1.6V SK Hynix DJR 20-30-30-50 G.Skill News
> • F4-5066C20D-32GT 1.6V SK Hynix DJR 20-30-30-50 G.Skill News
> 
> • F4-4800C20D-32GT 1.55V Hynix / Micron 20-30-30-50 G.Skill News
> 
> F4-4800C19D-16GT 1.5V Hynix / Micron 19-28-28-48 G.Skill News
> 
> F4-4800C19D-16GTRSB 1.55V SK Hynix DJR 19-28-28-48 ? Unify-X QVL
> 
> F4-4800C17D-16GT 1.6V Samsung 5WB 17-19-19-39 G.Skill News
> 
> F4-4400C18D-16GT 1.5V SK Hynix DJR 18-24-24-44 G.Skill News
> 
> • F4-4400C17D-32GT 1.5V Samsung 5WB 17-18-18-38 G.Skill News
> 
> • F4-4266C19D-32GT 1.45V Hynix / Micron 19-26-26-46 G.Skill News


which brand the 4kc14? sr?? dr??

msi seems to be faking that list.
5200/5333 neo kit?
gtrsb is bdie.. they state hynix.


----------



## sugi0lover

Bilco said:


> Nice! What kit is that? And is it stable?


I could stabilize 5066Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2) with F4-4000C15D-16GTRG.
and am using it as my everyday use setup without any issue.
(RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.450v / Mem OC IO 1.350v)
You can check my video below while stabilizing and see the detailed setting like voltages, memory timings and AIDA bench.
I am trying to stabilize 5066-16-16-28-265-1T atm, but it seems hard.













Z590 Apex + 5066Mhz-CL17


New item added to shared album




photos.google.com


----------



## safedisk

cstkl1 said:


> which brand the 4kc14? sr?? dr??
> 
> msi seems to be faking that list.
> 5200/5333 neo kit?
> gtrsb is bdie.. they state hynix.












This is a photo of my Korean friend
Samsung b-die 8G x2 4000cl14 kit.


----------



## GtiJason

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2489133
> 
> 
> This is a photo of my Korean friend
> Samsung b-die 8G x2 4000cl14 kit.


That's the one ! P/N slightly different here,
ND4U0840140BRADE. The 4400 kit's new to me, I only saw the 2x16gb 4600c19-26-26-46 kit that's like $420


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> special order through gskill reseller. price varies as per country and reseller.
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4800C17D-16GVK
> 
> not atm. was just testing booting.
> 
> still at knowing your ram phase.


Can any of the other special bins, say maybe the 5200c18 Neos, be ordered through said reseller?


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> which brand the 4kc14? sr?? dr??
> 
> msi seems to be faking that list.
> 5200/5333 neo kit?
> gtrsb is bdie.. they state hynix.


I can vouch that the list is real. I have seen half of those kits already in people's hands.


----------



## GtiJason

YoungChris said:


> I can vouch that the list is real. I have seen half of those kits already in people's hands.


What's up brother, You can usually special order through companies like MemoryC but takes a week or 2. No tax in WI so that's cool since everywhere else is taxed. The *F4-5066C20D-16GTRG* Hynix kit will be out super soon (today?) and should only be $229. Good price for freq. bad price for hynix, rather buy 4400c18 RJV's for $155
Some of those kit's from QVL seem unlikely but yeah alot are out in the wild as we speak


----------



## YaqY

GtiJason said:


> What's up brother, You can usually special order through companies like MemoryC but takes a week or 2. No tax in WI so that's cool since everywhere else is taxed. The *F4-5066C20D-16GTRG* Hynix kit will be out super soon and should only be $229. Good price for freq. bad price for hynix, rather buy 4400c18 RJV's for $155
> Some of those kit's from QVL seem unlikely but yeah alot are out in the wild as we speak


160 USD here, just remove the trash heatspreaders.





G.Skill 16GB G.Skill DDR4 5066MHz CL20 Memory Upgrade Kit


Buy G.Skill 16GB G.Skill DDR4 5066MHz CL20 Memory Upgrade Kit online from MemoryC at low prices. We ship worldwide and we specialise in computer memory, memory cards, solid state disks, USB drives, hard drives, computer peripherals.




www.memoryc.com


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> I can vouch that the list is real. I have seen half of those kits already in people's hands.


the ones gskill news real. but msi qvl..

hmm i dont think so. the gtrsb labeled as hynix.. neo kits on high ram.. 



GtiJason said:


> What's up brother, You can usually special order through companies like MemoryC but takes a week or 2. No tax in WI so that's cool since everywhere else is taxed. The *F4-5066C20D-16GTRG* Hynix kit will be out super soon and should only be $229. Good price for freq. bad price for hynix, rather buy 4400c18 RJV's for $155
> Some of those kit's from QVL seem unlikely but yeah alot are out in the wild as we speak


dont buy 5066c20 2x8gb kit bro. its too low binned. 

the difficulty of djr is at 5k-5066c19. its as difficult as bdie 5-5066c17 to get it stable. 

c20 is easy to scale up.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @sp 89
M13A bios 0801

Gskill F4-4800c17d-16gvk
4800 [email protected]


----------



## YaqY

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @sp 89
> M13A bios 0801
> 
> Gskill F4-4800c17d-16gvk
> 4800 [email protected]


Nice kit, also nice temp tolerance on it, surely g.skill bins bdie of xmp voltage this high for temperature.


----------



## GtiJason

YaqY said:


> 160 USD here, just remove the trash heatspreaders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill 16GB G.Skill DDR4 5066MHz CL20 Memory Upgrade Kit
> 
> 
> Buy G.Skill 16GB G.Skill DDR4 5066MHz CL20 Memory Upgrade Kit online from MemoryC at low prices. We ship worldwide and we specialise in computer memory, memory cards, solid state disks, USB drives, hard drives, computer peripherals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.memoryc.com


No plans to buy hynix atm but that kit seems to have 2 prices


----------



## YaqY

GtiJason said:


> No plans to buy hynix atm but that kit seems to have 2 prices
> View attachment 2489150
> View attachment 2489151


GVK is the ripjaws, GTRG is the golden trident Z royals hence the price difference.


----------



## Arni90

Looks like the 11900K with DJR can run Geekbench 4 quite well: Arni90`s Geekbench4 - Multi Core score: 50789 points with a Core i9 11900K

That's also the best ambient score on HWBOT for 8 cores by a decent margin


----------



## Lownage

I am once again asking if anyone managed to boot 4533+ dr bdie on M13A and is willing to share his .cmo file or which settings to use?
Still hitting a wall at 4266 
Bios is 0801


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> I am once again asking if anyone managed to boot 4533+ dr bdie on M13A and is willing to share his .cmo file or which settings to use?
> Still hitting a wall at 4266
> Bios is 0801


@Nizzen 
this scales to 4600 just change sa/io









0707-4400C17 1.CMO


CMO File



1drv.ms


----------



## marc0053

It's been a while since i overclocked but upgraded my 7700k to a 11900k and quite fun to play with.
Only had this system up and running for a few hours and have a long way to go still.


----------



## kylethepenguin

ezsdfl said:


> Hi, all.. Looking for some guidance. I have an i7-11700K in a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D, using the latest F20 bios (which uses 0x34 microcode).
> 
> In HWInfo, my core temps briefly drop down to 0c. So something is off with the sensors. I sent the debug log to Martin at HWInfo and he confirmed that the software is reading what the CPU is reporting correctly. I used Core Temp 1.17.1 as well, I experience the same issue.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a microcode issue, the processor itself or, unlikely, the board. The board with an i7-10700K OC to 5.0ghz had been stable for many months. Since I've put this RKL chip in, I'm having one hell of a time overclocking it, even adding +1 across all cores. I've got about 15 days remaining to return it back to Best Buy.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing 0c core temps, if so, I'd chalk it up to a future BIOS fix?


I get the same bug sometimes in hwinfo64. My machine is completely stable however, so I don't think it's a big deal at all.

I haven't witnessed any effect on performance.


----------



## techenth

edit. post already available in discussion


----------



## kylethepenguin

napata said:


> t his test was interesting in showing that you probably should just stick with Gear 1 at this point in time.





Arni90 said:


> VCCIO OC memory ran at 1.20V for B-die 3866, and 1.35V on 5333
> VCCSA was at 1.45V for B-die 3866, and 1.25V for 5333
> B-die ran at 1.60V
> DJR ran at 1.75V


Are those b-die voltage settings, and IMC voltage settings something you would consider "safe" for 24/7 operation? I'm very impressed with your tuning ability Arni90. I have almost no clue with this stuff, but I am learning slowly but surely.


----------



## fray_bentos

ezsdfl said:


> In HWInfo, my core temps briefly drop down to 0c. So something is off with the sensors. I sent the debug log to Martin at HWInfo and he confirmed that the software is reading what the CPU is reporting correctly. I used Core Temp 1.17.1 as well, I experience the same issue.
> ...
> Is anyone else experiencing 0c core temps, if so, I'd chalk it up to a future BIOS fix?





kylethepenguin said:


> I get the same bug sometimes in hwinfo64. My machine is completely stable however, so I don't think it's a big deal at all.
> 
> I haven't witnessed any effect on performance.


I've seen this bug if you have multiple pieces of software monitoring the same thing. e.g. Afterburner, HWiNFO64, fan control software etc trying to monitor CPU temp at the same time. I think funny readings can be given if two pieces of software try to make the reading at the same time. Fixed by disabling monitoring of said value so that it is only being monitored in one piece of software.


----------



## Arni90

kylethepenguin said:


> Are those b-die voltage settings, and IMC voltage settings something you would consider "safe" for 24/7 operation? I'm very impressed with your tuning ability Arni90. I have almost no clue with this stuff, but I am learning slowly but surely.


The B-die settings shouldn't be a problem, but I wouldn't run my DJR kit at 1.75V 24/7, as it gets quite hot.

Going back a tick to 3733 MHz for B-die, or 5066 MHz for DJR should alleviate the most extreme voltage requirements.


----------



## safedisk

ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO / FORMULA / APEX / EXTREME BETA BIOS 2201

Improve system performance

ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO WI-FI 2201 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2201.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA 2201 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2201.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XII APEX 2201 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-2201.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME 2201 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-2201.7z


----------



## YoungChris

Did some more efficiency testing now 








Really happy with these subtimings


----------



## morph.

safedisk said:


> ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO / APEX / EXTREME BETA BIOS 2201
> 
> Improve system performance
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO WI-FI 2201 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2201.7z
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XII APEX 2201 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-APEX-ASUS-2201.7z
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME 2201 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-EXTREME-ASUS-2201.7z


Anything for the maximus xii formula?


----------



## morph.

YoungChris said:


> Did some more efficiency testing now
> View attachment 2489333
> 
> Really happy with these subtimings


wow, sub 40 ns and just about 80gbps bandwidth impressive what sort of voltages are you dialing in and what ram kit is that?


----------



## Bilco

sugi0lover said:


> F4-4000C15D-16GTRG


1.45 SA seems a little high for daily driving, no?


----------



## sugi0lover

Bilco said:


> 1.45 SA seems a little high for daily driving, no?


I have been using around 1.45 sa for about a year since 10900k and I have no issue so far.


----------



## morph.

Bilco said:


> 1.45 SA seems a little high for daily driving, no?


People will always say current kills the chips, not voltage if there is enough cooling it's normally okay as most people won't be running strenuous loads 24x7... 

However, it also depends what your appetite for risk is with that too, I myself have found it hard to push past the 1.35v sa point but if the extra performance is of value and noticeable to you to push the ram further then it might be worth it.


----------



## YoungChris

morph. said:


> wow, sub 40 ns and just about 80gbps bandwidth impressive what sort of voltages are you dialing in and what ram kit is that?


1.35 sa, 1.5 rkl io, 1.99vdimm 
3600c16 Neos








only air cooled CPU, not even a fan blowing at the mems


----------



## morph.

your cpu fan would provide the DIMMs with some airflow heh... all that ram power for only a gtx980? :O


Gosh I got 3600 c14 royals... haven't dared to venture that far in the voltages heh...


----------



## safedisk

morph. said:


> Anything for the maximus xii formula?


I'll check formula bios tomorrow


----------



## itsnice4u

safedisk said:


> I'll check formula bios tomorrow


Yes, I am looking forward to 2201 beta bios for formula.


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> this scales to 4600 just change sa/io
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 0707-4400C17 1.CMO
> 
> 
> CMO File
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


Think its possible to get the latency down on this? Booted and testing 50ns latency at 4400. Any tips on settings to try?


----------



## morph.

safedisk said:


> I'll check formula bios tomorrow


Thank you  what is the key areas of improved systems performance?


----------



## bscool

Bilco said:


> Think its possible to get the latency down on this? Booted and testing 50ns latency at 4400. Any tips on settings to try?


I couldn't boot with the settings he posted I have to use higher voltages but with similar timings I am in the 46ns range with cache @46.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> Think its possible to get the latency down on this? Booted and testing 50ns latency at 4400. Any tips on settings to try?


the latency 45-46ns
this is already golden and u can work up to 4600


----------



## safedisk

morph. said:


> Thank you  what is the key areas of improved systems performance?


Hey Here FORMULA NEW BIOS
Yep improved systems performance

ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA 2201 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2201.7z


----------



## morph.

safedisk said:


> Hey Here FORMULA NEW BIOS
> Yep improved systems performance
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA 2201 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2201.7z


amazing love your work thankyou.

Hopefully, I can get better luck with overclocking my ram past 3733 on g1 without the need of super-high voltages and or a better g2 range...

Wonder if the 11900k will run better too 

I hope the bios can recognise PCIE 3.0 ribbons properly on auto with my video card now... Had this issue with every bios update and I had to pigy back a very old video card and different ribbon into my video port because of custom hard tube loop one of the biggest pain points upgrading the bios....


----------



## itsnice4u

safedisk said:


> Hey Here FORMULA NEW BIOS
> Yep improved systems performance
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA 2201 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2201.7z


Thank you for sharing the bios.


----------



## safedisk

I think MEMORY OC is better than Z490 if 10900K CPU is used on Z590
Very stable
MEM TWEAKIT has this problem Missing some timing RTL 64/64/7/7


----------



## YaqY

shamino1978 said:


> special tweak only engage for short range below 4000 to be safe
> so added tweak to maximus tweak mode 2 for a much wider range without affecting normal XMPs: just choose mode 2 in below bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apex_moremod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this also has the eventual vtt voltage cstk1 asked for
> m12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M12A_Mod.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


I have tried the M12A More Mod bios however i cannot find eventual VTT in the bios, i do see eventual VCCIO however though.


----------



## Lownage

bscool said:


> I couldn't boot with the settings he posted I have to use higher voltages but with similar timings I am in the 46ns range with cache @46.


I couldn't boot with lower, same or higher voltages. I can boot 4266c15, but not 4400C17/18/19. I just don't know what I am doing wrong.


----------



## bscool

Lownage said:


> I couldn't boot with lower, same or higher voltages. I can boot 4266c15, but not 4400C17/18/19. I just don't know what I am doing wrong.


I really do not know. I know it takes a long time to train. Probably well over a minute. So long I think it is going to fail. Weird thing is I could run DR b die 4266c16 on z490 Apex/1900k and I cannot get it to boot on z590. Can you boot DR b die4266c16 on z590?

I also ran into the issue I seen a few people posting about on the Asus form about Wi-Fi and Bluetooth disappearing. I do not use them I just noticed tonight that they "disappeared" from the bios. The way to get them back was turn off PSU power and hold the power button for a minute or so. I am glad I still have a z490 system. If I had to keep only one z590 would be going  

Z590 sound is also laggy/delayed with the sound in Windows (@Falkentyne mentioned it up on the ASUS form [DRIVERS] Realtek USB Audio (MB | Intel 5xx & AMD TRX40) - Page 4 ) and USB mouse takes a bit to activate on start up.


----------



## Lownage

I let it train for like 5 minutes. On and off, sadly no boot.
This is my daily driver, Gskill 4000c16 Kit DR bdie on M13A


----------



## nmkr

sugi0lover said:


> I could stabilize 5066Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2) with F4-4000C15D-16GTRG.
> and am using it as my everyday use setup without any issue.
> (RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.450v / Mem OC IO 1.350v)
> You can check my video below while stabilizing and see the detailed setting like voltages, memory timings and AIDA bench.
> I am trying to stabilize 5066-16-16-28-265-1T atm, but it seems hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z590 Apex + 5066Mhz-CL17
> 
> 
> New item added to shared album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos.google.com


impressive memory, 5033 fails on my dimms


----------



## YoungChris

sugi0lover said:


> I could stabilize 5066Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2) with F4-4000C15D-16GTRG.
> and am using it as my everyday use setup without any issue.
> (RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.450v / Mem OC IO 1.350v)
> You can check my video below while stabilizing and see the detailed setting like voltages, memory timings and AIDA bench.
> I am trying to stabilize 5066-16-16-28-265-1T atm, but it seems hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z590 Apex + 5066Mhz-CL17
> 
> 
> New item added to shared album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos.google.com


amazing daily OC set!
Have you tried XOC?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Do you know what is : Cache Hierarchy Error ?


----------



## sugi0lover

YoungChris said:


> amazing daily OC set!
> Have you tried XOC?


Thanks a lot for your kind comment! I haven't tried XOC.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I really do not know. I know it takes a long time to train. Probably well over a minute. So long I think it is going to fail. Weird thing is I could run DR b die 4266c16 on z490 Apex/1900k and I cannot get it to boot on z590. Can you boot DR b die4266c16 on z590?
> 
> I also ran into the issue I seen a few people posting about on the Asus form about Wi-Fi and Bluetooth disappearing. I do not use them I just noticed tonight that they "disappeared" from the bios. The way to get them back was turn off PSU power and hold the power button for a minute or so. I am glad I still have a z490 system. If I had to keep only one z590 would be going
> 
> Z590 sound is also laggy/delayed with the sound in Windows (@Falkentyne mentioned it up on the ASUS form [DRIVERS] Realtek USB Audio (MB | Intel 5xx & AMD TRX40) - Page 4 ) and USB mouse takes a bit to activate on start up.












4400c16

theres few tricks for this to train.


----------



## Lownage

Mind sharing these tricks?


----------



## YaqY

Some interesting memtest pictures on the unifyx, looks like they have optimised for dual rank bdie + rocketlake.


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> Some interesting memtest pictures on the unifyx, looks like they have optimised for dual rank bdie + rocketlake.


Do they show any voltages?


----------



## YaqY

Nizzen said:


> Do they show any voltages?


No, but knowing MSI they like to use some crazy voltages.


----------



## Nizzen

YaqY said:


> No, but knowing MSI they like to use some crazy voltages.


PR screenshots without actual value


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> No, but knowing MSI they like to use some crazy voltages.


@Nizzen MSI even has an IF=2500MHz Renoir. Their 11900K has the cpu force of 34 (lower=better), while an average 11900K has the cpu force around 48 (ASUS SP-80). Those voltages should be unrealistic for ordinary users.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> @Nizzen MSI even has an IF=2500MHz Renoir. Their 11900K has the cpu force of 34 (lower=better), while an average 11900K has the cpu force around 48 (ASUS SP-80). Those voltages should be unrealistic for ordinary users.


Yep ofcourse they will use high binned ram and cpus etc but they are marketing their products so it is fair I guess.


----------



## YoungChris

YaqY said:


> Some interesting memtest pictures on the unifyx, looks like they have optimised for dual rank bdie + rocketlake.


I'll have to look further into this, I haven't had a good experience with DR so far but maybe they tried something I didn't.


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> @Nizzen MSI even has an IF=2500MHz Renoir. Their 11900K has the cpu force of 34 (lower=better), while an average 11900K has the cpu force around 48 (ASUS SP-80). Those voltages should be unrealistic for ordinary users.


My 11900k has a CPU Force of 51.


----------



## encrypted11

I have a CPU Force 41 (ASUS SP89) and 44 (ASUS SP85). CPU Force 34 sounds like a really great chip


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> Mind sharing these tricks?


your 4400c17 has to be rock solid first


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> Some interesting memtest pictures on the unifyx, looks like they have optimised for dual rank bdie + rocketlake.


that looks like an excellent board to play around with.


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> your 4400c17 has to be rock solid first


Guess I am out of luck then. Thanks anyway☺
Does eventual vtt help with booting higher than 4266?


----------



## Esenel

Lownage said:


> Guess I am out of luck then. Thanks anyway☺
> Does eventual vtt help with booting higher than 4266?


If 4400 CL17 DR is not booting easily then I guess your Kit can't do it.
For me his settings worked easily.


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> the latency 45-46ns
> this is already golden and u can work up to 4600


Weird I got 49ns on boot with those settings but I also enabled round trip latency training, should I disable this? Might have something in the background that is slowing it up or something. I am cl17 instead of cl16 and uncore is also 4k instead of 4.1k


----------



## YaqY

Lownage said:


> Guess I am out of luck then. Thanks anyway☺
> Does eventual vtt help with booting higher than 4266?


Basically you set eventual vtt to what you want vtt to be in windows but you set the normal vtt value to what you want vtt to train with. You can test if lowering or decreasing vtt helps train I guess but I am not sure it’s the issue for your case. I don’t have the XIII apex and rocketlake to help there.


----------



## musician

Bilco said:


> Weird I got 49ns on boot with those settings but I also enabled round trip latency training, should I disable this? Might have something in the background that is slowing it up or something. I am cl17 instead of cl16 and uncore is also 4k instead of 4.1k


You may try my safe settings for daily dr bdie. You will get probably even better latency than me, as you have the Apex.


----------



## YoungChris

encrypted11 said:


> I have a CPU Force 41 (ASUS SP89) and 44 (ASUS SP85). CPU Force 34 sounds like a really great chip


I heard a rumour that Toppc binned a couple hundred 11900ks to get one that would do 4133 gear 1 stable on ambient 👀


----------



## Sonny Burnett

safedisk said:


> Hey Here FORMULA NEW BIOS
> Yep improved systems performance
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA 2201 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2201.7z



And one for the Z490-E Gaming maybe??


----------



## Bilco

What voltages you running that at? 


musician said:


> You may try my safe settings for daily dr bdie. You will get probably even better latency than me, as you have the Apex.


----------



## safedisk

Sonny Burnett said:


> And one for the Z490-E Gaming maybe??


Hey You can download it from the link address below. 





ROG-STRIX-Z490-E-GAMING-ASUS-2201.7z







drive.google.com


----------



## safedisk

SR B-DIE 4600CL16 HCI RUN









SR HYNIX 5333CL19 HCI RUN


ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME
Hynix SR DJR and Samsung SR B-die memory overclocking test
ROG logo on this motherboard is very BIG, so I like it haha


----------



## bscool

Finally got 11900k/z590 Apex 4533 to boot DR b die


----------



## Arni90

bscool said:


> Finally got 11900k/z590 Apex 4533 to boot DR b die


What was the trick that made it possible forrr you?


----------



## Lownage

bscool said:


> Finally got 11900k/z590 Apex 4533 to boot DR b die


What did the trick?


----------



## bscool

@Arni90 @Lownage 

I am not sure, dumb luck? Here are the files if someone wants to try. The voltages are higher than some might run but that is what it took for me to boot and be stable so far. I haven't tested it much. I tried to figure out what memory algorithm setting did let me boot 4533 DR b die but changing them one by one it would not boot but changing the combo boots for me. Still cant boot 4600 or 4800 with c17 or c18 with DR b die.

Early Command Training [Enabled]
Late Command Training [Enabled]
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Enabled]
Rank Margin Tool [Disabled]









Items Shared on 5-8-2021


Folder



1drv.ms


----------



## YaqY

bscool said:


> @Arni90 @Lownage
> 
> I am not sure, dumb luck? Here are the files if someone wants to try. The voltages are higher than some might run but that is what it took for me to boot and be stable so far. I haven't tested it much. I tried to figure out what memory algorithm setting did let me boot 4533 DR b die but changing them one by one it would not boot but changing the combo boots for me. Still cant boot 4600 or 4800 with c17 or c18 with DR b die.
> 
> Early Command Training [Enabled]
> Late Command Training [Enabled]
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Enabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Disabled]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Items Shared on 5-8-2021
> 
> 
> Folder
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


Have you tried cl16 with higher vdimm? This is easier for me to train on dual rank above 4500 atleast on cometlake.


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2489468
> 
> 
> 4400c16
> 
> theres few tricks for this to train.


For the life of me I could not get your profile stable in Apex Legends.... Crash To Desktop at random for the most part. Even backed 4400C17 down to cl17-18-18-36.

Kept VCCIO at 1.36
Tried changing SA from 1.36-1.41
1.36 would CTD within 5 minutes in Apex
1.4-1.41 would CTD usually in the range of 30-40minutes
Tried DRAM voltage from 1.5-1.55 didn't seem to have much of a change in stability. Processor is SP 86 on 0707. 
HW info reported 38C-43C on DRAM depending on DRAM voltage. 
Ring 4000mhz

It feels like I am just at the brink of stability. When I get some free time I will probably try to start loosening some timings, any suggestions on which tertiary ones to start with?

From what I saw with the SA I think I could stabilize it if I went higher. I am worried about keeping the SA above 1.4v as people keep warning me about it, but the people here on OCN seem fine with daily driving above 1.4v. Is the SA being greater than 1.4v just an old adage from prior generations?

F4-4266C17D-32GVKB is the kit I am using


----------



## bscool

YaqY said:


> Have you tried cl16 with higher vdimm? This is easier for me to train on dual rank above 4500 atleast on cometlake.


Yeah I tried c16 with this z590 Apex/119000k and no go for me but I see some others can run c16. Weird thing is on z490 Apex with 11900k I could run 4266c15-15-15 with the same sticks.


----------



## Kana Chan

Product Specifications


quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




ark.intel.com




Does this work on Z590/Z490s or only the W580/W480s?


----------



## musician

Bilco said:


> What voltages you running that at?


Go like this, it´s rockstable.
Set this in bios:
DRAM voltage 1.505V
MEM OC 1.33V
VCCSA 1.30V
CPUIO 1.10V
Round Trip Latency Enabled.
Use this my settings.
Enjoy.


----------



## musician

I can easily boot and gaming with dr bdie 4533 since 0801 bios, this bios works like a miracle. Asus team did !amazing! job with the BIOS, so thank you! Those settings are_* gaming*_ stable. I am affraid to push more than 1.505V to my ram, at least for now, so I use rather 4400, which is rock stable. I have no idea what´s going on, but my Hero is the True Hero. I can boot in to BIOS even with 4600 with 1.6V ram, but can´t enter Windows. And because this PC is my working/gaming daily, I am OK with just the 4400. Maybe I will try to make the 4533 rock stable settings too, later, probably I will be tempted to do so


----------



## Bilco

musician said:


> Go like this, it´s rockstable.
> Set this in bios:
> DRAM voltage 1.505V
> MEM OC 1.33V
> VCCSA 1.30V
> CPUIO 1.10V
> Round Trip Latency Enabled.
> Use this my settings.
> Enjoy.


I'll update to 0801 and give this a shot when I get home. Still using 0707



musician said:


> I can easily boot and gaming with dr bdie 4533 since 0801 bios, this bios works like a miracle. Asus team did !amazing! job with the BIOS, so thank you! Those settings are_* gaming*_ stable. I am affraid to push more than 1.505V to my ram, at least for now, so I use rather 4400, which is rock stable. I have no idea what´s going on, but my Hero is the True Hero. I can boot in to BIOS even with 4600 with 1.6V ram, but can´t enter Windows. And because this PC is my working/gaming daily, I am OK with just the 4400. Maybe I will try to make the 4533 rock stable settings too, later, probably I will be tempted to do so


Out of curiosity what games are you testing on?


----------



## musician

Bilco said:


> Out of curiosity what games are you testing on?


World of Warcraft and World of Warships


----------



## Bilco

musician said:


> World of Warcraft and World of Warships


Well if you get a free hour download apex(free) and give the battle royal mode a go, just not 3v3 or the firing range as I don't think they stress the system as much. I'd be curious to see how it does with 40 to 60m in the br mode.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> For the life of me I could not get your profile stable in Apex Legends.... Crash To Desktop at random for the most part. Even backed 4400C17 down to cl17-18-18-36.
> 
> Kept VCCIO at 1.36
> Tried changing SA from 1.36-1.41
> 1.36 would CTD within 5 minutes in Apex
> 1.4-1.41 would CTD usually in the range of 30-40minutes
> Tried DRAM voltage from 1.5-1.55 didn't seem to have much of a change in stability. Processor is SP 86 on 0707.
> HW info reported 38C-43C on DRAM depending on DRAM voltage.
> Ring 4000mhz
> 
> It feels like I am just at the brink of stability. When I get some free time I will probably try to start loosening some timings, any suggestions on which tertiary ones to start with?
> 
> From what I saw with the SA I think I could stabilize it if I went higher. I am worried about keeping the SA above 1.4v as people keep warning me about it, but the people here on OCN seem fine with daily driving above 1.4v. Is the SA being greater than 1.4v just an old adage from prior generations?
> 
> F4-4266C17D-32GVKB is the kit I am using


the profile i shared the timings can be tighten as long the math holds. but you i dont see any gain

i have a weaker 4266c17D-32GTRGB
it needs slight tweak but the sa/io holds
4533 on it 50:50 on training and 4600 same issue as the other ram. stable in Windows but on restart/reboot its 55

you need
ram test hci, tm5 1usmusv3, karhu

apex uses less sa/io than 4dimm asus mobo hence y it can go higher clock.

trial/and error. put in the hours with a systematic understanding of timings/algo/voltages and you just might solve stability


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> the profile i shared the timings can be tighten as long the math holds. but you i dont see any gain
> 
> i have a weaker 4266c17D-32GTRGB
> it needs slight tweak but the sa/io holds
> 4533 on it 50:50 on training and 4600 same issue as the other ram. stable in Windows but on restart/reboot its 55
> 
> you need
> ram test hci, tm5 1usmusv3, karhu
> 
> apex uses less sa/io than 4dimm asus mobo hence y it can go higher clock.
> 
> trial/and error. put in the hours with a systematic understanding of timings/algo/voltages and you just might solve stability


So you are saying that by going higher on the sa/io i may have caused the instability? I never tried tightening, only loosening primaries a bit.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> So you are saying that by going higher on the sa/io i may have caused the instability? I never tried tightening, only loosening primaries a bit.


how can u go looser than that dude. 

sa/io bdie @4400.. its not really that sensitive. 

your ram most probably has issue with primary timimg or vdimm required.


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> how can u go looser than that dude.
> 
> sa/io bdie @4400.. its not really that sensitive.
> 
> your ram most probably has issue with primary timimg or vdimm required.


Guess I'm just unlucky. I'll give it a shot at 1.6v vdimm.


----------



## cstkl1

Bilco said:


> Guess I'm just unlucky. I'll give it a shot at 1.6v vdimm.


illogical. 

have you actually got to know ure ram. 
4266c17 the lowest vdimm
c14/15/16/17/18 scaling etc

if you assume your ram needs [email protected] then your 4266 is above 1.5v which means you need to rma that ram. 

gskill normally bins 0.1-0.05 from vdimm required for xmp to work.


----------



## yahfz

Has anyone here tried the per core oc yet? My all core OC of 5.3GHz performed better than my per core oc with 3 cores at 5.4 and the rest at 5.3. I wonder if the feature isn't working properly on my Maximus Hero XIII (0801 bios). Can anyone here confirm?


----------



## yahfz

Just tested it and apparently it is indeed broken.


----------



## cstkl1

since 5k-5066 some issue. testing diff sets of timings for 4800c17..

this one sa 0.85 with vccio 1.05 4800c17


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2489705
> 
> 
> since 5k-5066 some issue. testing diff sets of timings for 4800c17..
> 
> this one sa 0.85 with vccio 1.05 4800c17


The question many wants to know: Does it beat 10900k with ~35ns in games?


In my findings, 10900k is still faster in most games 


But hey! It's still a good cpu


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> The question many wants to know: Does it beat 10900k with ~35ns in games?
> 
> 
> In my findings, 10900k is still faster in most games
> 
> 
> But hey! It's still a good cpu


question is will somebody with that 35ns dare play a full game session online for weeks vs a 11900k in cod warzone.

lol.

seriously atm i am just chasing 5066c17.not vdimm issue so trying diff sets of timings.

other than 3866c14 initial bios buggy. zero crash on any game with 11900k.. magic.


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> The question many wants to know: Does it beat 10900k with ~35ns in games?


Here is the test result I did personally and posted at the Korean PC community a couple of days ago.
Both settings are stable as you can see from my youtube.
I have all the pictures and let me know if someone wants the pics.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> question is will somebody with that 35ns dare play a full game session online for weeks vs a 11900k in cod warzone.


do you really play warzone for weeks 24/7?
LOL


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> do you really play warzone for weeks 24/7?
> LOL


thats a silly retort i never stated time frame of each session but the post was to indicate stability in terms of consistency of every boot every session is perfect

one thing obvious. you dont game any form of online multiplayer game.

thats the real LOL


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> thats a silly retort i never stated time frame of each session but the post was to indicate stability in terms of consistency of every boot every session is perfect
> one thing obvious. you dont game any form of online multiplayer game.
> thats the real LOL


I understand that you are an old member of this forum, And your knowledge is more than mine. But I dare to contradict you.
You are constantly claiming that 10 gen intel is unstable and only 11 gen is 100% stable. Half of those screenshots that you post here from 11900k are called only for 3-5 minutes of memtest. The remaining half is 50 min usmus cfg or karhu. But you understand that this is only memory and only 50 minutes.
"100%" stability is checked by another time and additional programs from AVX load.
If you can "full game session online for weeks" or "every boot every session is perfect" then I think it will not be difficult for you to publish here 3 hours Prime95 Avx or 1 hour LinX full memory, Karhu 10000%, Anta EXtreme.cfg and show that you haven't received a single Whea error in all of this testing.

P.s And I ask you - do not test the processor in stock. You are on the forum www.overclock.net
P.s.s with if Whea errors occur on the 10th generation of Intel due to the imperfection of the architecture, you can always add vcor or disable HT - and get even more fps.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> I understand that you are an old member of this forum, And your knowledge is more than mine. But I dare to contradict you.
> You are constantly claiming that 10 gen intel is unstable and only 11 gen is 100% stable. Half of those screenshots that you post here from 11900k are called only for 3-5 minutes of memtest. The remaining half is 50 min usmus cfg or karhu. But you understand that this is only memory and only 50 minutes.
> "100%" stability is checked by another time and additional programs from AVX load.
> If you can "full game session online for weeks" or "every boot every session is perfect" then I think it will not be difficult for you to publish here 3 hours Prime95 Avx or 1 hour LinX full memory, Karhu 10000%, Anta EXtreme.cfg and show that you haven't received a single Whea error in all of this testing.
> 
> P.s And I ask you - do not test the processor in stock. You are on the forum www.overclock.net
> P.s.s with if Whea errors occur on the 10th generation of Intel due to the imperfection of the architecture, you can always add vcor or disable HT - and get even more fps.


funny. you didnt contradict. you just started a non related reply to two post

the post was on 34ns, you simply now ignoring this to divert everything playing the victim

and the part you obviously dont belong in this thread. rkl has no whea error. its either bsod or works.

why dont you post all that with 34ns aida 10900k.

funny how ppl always suddenly change the narrative claiming victim when they start some silly comment.

this is not "proof to me" thread or "MUST" help me thread. if you want mainstream feedback go ask ppl who earns from doing such comparison.

i can only state my opinion. whether ppl choose to believe it or not up to them. be the fool or learn something.. gain and loss only affects yourself.

the very fact 4800c17 works with sa 0.85 , mcio 1v .. any sane ppl would realize theres alot of things to learn.

also its obvious you dont ram oc. why would i post any FULL say 1000% stable when theres still much to learn and higher clocks to try.

_disable ht, oc the cpu. go ahead and do your own test with your own electricity to satisfy somebody on the net. _


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Here is the test result I did personally and posted at the Korean PC community a couple of days ago.
> Both settings are stable as you can see from my youtube.
> I have all the pictures and let me know if someone wants the pics.
> View attachment 2489709


Pleace post pictures. That way you are making this forum a better place 

This looks to be a bit gpubound, so it would be fun to see if the pci-e 4.0 does a small difference here.


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Pleace post pictures. That way you are making this forum a better place
> 
> This looks to be a bit gpubound, so it would be fun to see if the pci-e 4.0 does a small difference here.


Here are the pictures. Sorry the game language is Korean.




















































As you mentioned PCIE 4.0 difference, I also tested Z490 Apex vs Z590 Apex and both of them are PICE.4.0 supported.
This pic below is Z490 Apex + 11900K + PCIE 4.0, but Z590 Apex with the same setup has higher fps.
See the GPU % of Z490 Apex (72%) and Z590 Apex (92%).









Also here are some 3DMark tests.
For Port Royal, the average temp of 10900K is so low, so consider when you compare settings.
Result

For Time Spy, I only have (11900K + Z490) vs (11900K + Z590) and Z590 setup gives me better score even though they are both PCIE 4.0.








Result







www.3dmark.com


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Here are the pictures. Sorry the game language is Korean.
> 
> View attachment 2489723
> 
> View attachment 2489724
> 
> 
> View attachment 2489725
> View attachment 2489726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you mentioned PCIE 4.0 difference, I also tested Z490 Apex vs Z590 Apex and both of them are PICE.4.0 supported.
> This pic below is Z490 Apex + 11900K + PCIE 4.0, but Z590 Apex with the same setup has higher fps.
> See the GPU % of Z490 Apex (72%) and Z590 Apex (92%).
> 
> 
> Also here are some 3DMark tests.
> For Port Royal, the average temp of 10900K is so low, so consider when you compare settings.
> Result
> 
> For Time Spy, I only have (10900K + Z490) vs (11900K + Z590) and Z590 setup gives me better score even though they are both PCIE 4.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Looks like 10900k is getting better result on the cpuside, but lower on the gpu side?


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Looks like 10900k is getting better result on the cpuside, but lower on the gpu side?
> 
> View attachment 2489735


You see that right. There are other games like that, so I can't make any conclusion just from small test of mine.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I got a 11900k on my desk to delid again and replace my 10900k but these mixed result makes me heaitate to do it.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> the very fact 4800c17 works with sa 0.85 , mcio 1v .. any sane ppl would realize theres alot of things to learn.


I am not interested in your ns. I am interested in your screen "3 min stable".
If you declare that your 11900k for 4800 memory needs
sa 0.85 with vccio2 1.05 4800c17 then you must confirm it with a more serious test - for example LinX full memory or Gsat.
Just the same I'm interested in overclocking the memory and the screen from 3 min test does not give any benefit, no conclusions can be drawn from it.
You write what you want to go higher (5066), but how can you go higher if you do not know how much "really" you need sa io on the previous step (4800)?
This is strange to read from the old-timer of the forum. Most newbies learn from the screenshots of other more experienced overclockers. Please do not post screenshots of 3 minutes of tests.
You are misleading beginners, and you spoil the opinion of yourself.


----------



## 2500k_2

sugi0lover said:


> Here are the pictures. Sorry the game language is Korean.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2489725
> View attachment 2489726


Thanks for the tests. Do you have time to test both configurations in the shadow tomb raider game, but without focusing on the GPU?
The graph has a jagged cpu render line. Need to check at 720p
lowest presset + antialising off / 505 ver game.
Your results will be valuable for comparing processors
At 11900k, due to gear 2 modes, there is a drop in FPS.
And 95% of the cpu game will show it.


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> I am not interested in your ns. I am interested in your screen "3 min stable".
> If you declare that your 11900k for 4800 memory needs
> sa 0.85 with vccio2 1.05 4800c17 then you must confirm it with a more serious test - for example LinX full memory or Gsat.
> Just the same I'm interested in overclocking the memory and the screen from 3 min test does not give any benefit, no conclusions can be drawn from it.
> You write what you want to go higher (5066), but how can you go higher if you do not know how much "really" you need sa io on the previous step (4800)?
> This is strange to read from the old-timer of the forum. Most newbies learn from the screenshots of other more experienced overclockers. Please do not post screenshots of 3 minutes of tests.
> You are misleading beginners, and you spoil the opinion of yourself.


Now it's your turn to provide some benchmarks numbers and screenshots 

Love from Norway <3


----------



## sugi0lover

2500k_2 said:


> Thanks for the tests. Do you have time to test both configurations in the shadow tomb raider game, but without focusing on the GPU?
> The graph has a jagged cpu render line. Need to check at 720p
> lowest presset + antialising off / 505 ver game.
> Your results will be valuable for comparing processors
> At 11900k, due to gear 2 modes, there is a drop in FPS.
> And 95% of the cpu game will show it.


Unfortunately, I sold 10900K a couple of days ago. I can only test 11900K + Z590 Apex setup.


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> Now it's your turn to provide some benchmarks numbers and screenshots
> 
> Love from Norway <3


----------



## 2500k_2

sugi0lover said:


> Unfortunately, I sold 10900K a couple of days ago. I can only test 11900K + Z590 Apex setup.


yes, give it - it will still be valuable for comparing 11900k without an emphasis on the video card. Thank you
if it does not bother you then go through the benchmark on 3733 13 13 Gear 1 and 5066 17 17 Gear 2.
For comparison Gear 1 vs Gear 2


----------



## Talon2016

Why is this game used so often? Doesn't another game exist?

Feel free to go run CS GO benchmark.


----------



## 2500k_2

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2489756
> 
> 
> Why is this game used so often? Doesn't another game exist?
> 
> Feel free to go run CS GO benchmark.


Of course have. But Sotr has easy to read results + repeatable test (many try to compare in warzone - but there you can't achieve 100 percent repeatability). It is easy to compare processors in multithreading since the game is well optimized (DX12) (Games in the future will be on Dx12, Vulcan - and will use all cores)
A lot of people only look at the average FPS, forgetting about the 95 percentile. Sotr responds well to overclocking cores and memory + shows graphics frametime Cpu and Gpu, GPU dependency, min, max, average, 95% fps. (I'm personally interested in 95% cpu Game)
CS GO - DX9 - uses few cores. If you want to compare performance in single-threaded games, then SC2 is better /
Here is your version of the game in the screenshot (298 - the screenshot is not mine (he is domdtxdissar)


----------



## E-Curbi2

Hey guys, is there an Apex XIII bios memory OC guide anywhere to be found? Just the basics so I can get started on my own?

Only have the 11600K 6-core but a pretty decent TZ Royal Silver 4600/18 B-die kit - just want to get started learning.

Thank you!


----------



## Arni90

E-Curbi2 said:


> Hey guys, is there an Apex XIII bios memory OC guide anywhere to be found? Just the basics so I can get started on my own?
> 
> Only have the 11600K 6-core but a pretty decent Trident Z Royal Silver 4600/18 B-die kit - just want to get started learning.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> View attachment 2489767


That's an impressive frequency, is it with some kind of AVX offset? What did you use to test stability?

As for timings, you can generally assume whatever held for previous generations hold for this generation too (secondary and tertiary timings are very important). The only significant difference is that there's no RTL tweaking, you just enable _Round Trip Latency_ in memory training algorithms and get a decent performance uplift.


----------



## Arni90

bscool said:


> @Arni90 @Lownage
> 
> I am not sure, dumb luck? Here are the files if someone wants to try. The voltages are higher than some might run but that is what it took for me to boot and be stable so far. I haven't tested it much. I tried to figure out what memory algorithm setting did let me boot 4533 DR b die but changing them one by one it would not boot but changing the combo boots for me. Still cant boot 4600 or 4800 with c17 or c18 with DR b die.
> 
> Early Command Training [Enabled]
> Late Command Training [Enabled]
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Enabled]
> Rank Margin Tool [Disabled]


Just tried this, and 4533 booted easily, but there are some significant VCCIO MemOC requirements


----------



## E-Curbi2

Arni90 said:


> That's an impressive frequency, is it with some kind of AVX offset? What did you use to test stability?
> 
> As for timings, you can generally assume whatever held for previous generations hold for this generation too (secondary and tertiary timings are very important). The only significant difference is that there's no RTL tweaking, you just enable _Round Trip Latency_ in memory training algorithms and get a decent performance uplift.


I kept AVX2 and AVX512 offsets at 0, heard that was best for Cine R15 runs. Don't know if that's true but yea both AVXs are user specified at 0.

It's only a Cine R15 Single Thread run not a true stability test lol, my max Single-Core Per Core is 5.5 with this chip, 5.6 will boot but freezes.

Today it's 2-cores max clock so far 53 53 52 51 50 50 6c12t is looking good - I'm not even testing for an all-core overclock not with RKL - not competing - just setting up a responsive home office pc.

I'm only looking for stability with office work applications. : )

Thank you I'll enable Round Trip Latency and set up some previous ddr4 values.


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2489741
> 
> 
> View attachment 2489742


11900k stock
4400c17 tweaked


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> 11900k stock
> 4400c17 tweaked
> [/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]
> different versions of the game show different results. Here is the result of 10900k in the official Steam version (298).
> Did you manage to beat the board at 4533+?


----------



## Nizzen

11900k @ 5200mhz all core
4300 ring
4400c17 tweaked
Stock 3090


----------



## Nizzen

Nizzen said:


> 11900k @ 5200mhz all core
> 4300 ring
> 4400c17 tweaked
> Stock 3090
> 
> View attachment 2489791


VS my 5950x stock + 3800c14 "tweaked"









VS my 5900x stock + 3600c14


----------



## Nizzen

Does the OLD Optane 900p work on Rocketlake?


4k random [email protected] QD=1 says yes


----------



## E-Curbi2

Can't find "Round Trip Latency" in the Apex XIII bios, is it in the Extreme Tweaker main menu or a submenu? Thank you.

This is the best I got so far. ho hum dropped the 11600K clock down a bit.

4800 18 18 37


----------



## Falkentyne

E-Curbi2 said:


> Can't find "Round Trip Latency" in the Apex XIII bios, is it in the Extreme Tweaker main menu or a submenu? Thank you.
> 
> This is the best I got so far. ho hum dropped the 11600K clock down a bit.
> 
> 4800 18 18 37
> 
> View attachment 2489809


It's in Memory Training Algorithms.


----------



## E-Curbi2

Falkentyne said:


> It's in Memory Training Algorithms.


Is Round Trip Latency absolutely necessary? 

only asking since the ROG bios is so overwhelming... : (


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> I am not interested in your ns. I am interested in your screen "3 min stable".
> If you declare that your 11900k for 4800 memory needs
> sa 0.85 with vccio2 1.05 4800c17 then you must confirm it with a more serious test - for example LinX full memory or Gsat.
> Just the same I'm interested in overclocking the memory and the screen from 3 min test does not give any benefit, no conclusions can be drawn from it.
> You write what you want to go higher (5066), but how can you go higher if you do not know how much "really" you need sa io on the previous step (4800)?
> This is strange to read from the old-timer of the forum. Most newbies learn from the screenshots of other more experienced overclockers. Please do not post screenshots of 3 minutes of tests.
> You are misleading beginners, and you spoil the opinion of yourself.


stop dude. you are literally embarrassing yourself. you have no clue anything about ram oc and what each tool signifies.

if i post now hci on that sa/io. will you just refrain from posting more silly comments?? nope. you will still behave like you know everything when you never test anything.
ignorant
ppl and their assumptions is what limit their growth.


----------



## cstkl1

E-Curbi2 said:


> Is Round Trip Latency absolutely necessary?
> 
> only asking since the ROG bios is so overwhelming... : (
> 
> View attachment 2489822


up to the user. its based on mrc code tuning

theres no indication in gear 2 it effects SA significantly but plus side you get slightly better bandwidth but alot of gain in latency


----------



## cstkl1

not sure should i update that 4800c19 djr pdf on apex

5066 sa/io dr 1.05/1.2 is enough.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - SP 88/89
cpu stock LLC2
GSKILL f4-4800c17d-16GVK
@4800 17-17-17-28 @1.53v set
sa/mcio 0.85/1v


----------



## cstkl1

useless. this oc as it cant help 5066 at all.


----------



## YoungChris

gb3 single core is absolutely flying








over 5.5 core and 4.8 cache on a tower air cooler and >20°C ambients, also IMC going hard with 5100+ c15 supertight
Is this considered golden?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

SP95 Prilimary test: 1.33V bios set LLC6, 5.1 GHz all core, and 4.5 GHz ring, 10 min R23, AVX512 off.

Edit: min 5.1 GHz R23 volt is 1.32V bios set LLC6.

Edit2: 5.2 GHz R23 volt 1.44V bios set LLC6


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Single Dimm 1:1 4133... two dimms is still a no go


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Single Dimm 1:1 4133... two dimms is still a no go
> View attachment 2489914


What kinda volts are you running? Also, what can you do with 2 dimms?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> What kinda volts are you running? Also, what can you do with 2 dimms?


Only used VDIMM=1.7, others left AUTO. Still benching with 2 dimms. CPU 1.34 llc6 5.1&4.5


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Only used VDIMM=1.7, others left AUTO. Still benching with 2 dimms. CPU 1.34 llc6 5.1&4.5
> 
> View attachment 2489917


been trying to get 3866 1T stable. its difficult


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> been trying to get 3866 1T stable. its difficult


Just tried with 4000C16D-32GTRSA, 0707 bios. Couldn't even boot. Will try mode 2 later.


----------



## pdixon0

safedisk said:


> Hey You can download it from the link address below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-STRIX-Z490-E-GAMING-ASUS-2201.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Hey SafeDisk

Is there a version for ROG STRIX Z590-E by any chance?

Is this a custom BIOS or will it appear on the ASUS support page at any point?

Thanks!


----------



## aznguyen316

Any thoughts on Micron RAM OC on RKL? 









Crucial Ballistix MAX 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR4-4000 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) | BLM2K8G40C18U4B | Crucial.com


Buy Crucial Ballistix MAX 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR4-4000 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) BLM2K8G40C18U4B. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.




www.crucial.com





$105 for Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C18-19-19-39 1.35V kit, wonder how well this would overclock. Mostly see Bdie and DJR in this thread.

Asus M13H has this kit on the QVL at 1,2,4 dimms.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

aznguyen316 said:


> Any thoughts on Micron RAM OC on RKL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crucial Ballistix MAX 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR4-4000 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) | BLM2K8G40C18U4B | Crucial.com
> 
> 
> Buy Crucial Ballistix MAX 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR4-4000 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) BLM2K8G40C18U4B. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.crucial.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $105 for Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C18-19-19-39 1.35V kit, wonder how well this would overclock. Mostly see Bdie and DJR in this thread.
> 
> Asus M13H has this kit on the QVL at 1,2,4 dimms.


Based on my exp, 16GB version would be better than 8GB ver., or you can try 2*32GB, 3600C16 kit.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

So for best gaming result, gear 1 is a best option right?


----------



## joneffingvo

Hey guys currently running 11900k (5.1 all core) w/ Maximus XIII Hero (801 bios). Ram is G.Skill F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA (16-16-16-36) currently running at 4266 (16-17-17-37). I tried the following:

Gear: 1:1
DRAM Frequency: 3733 mhz
100:133

DRAM voltage: 1.50v
DRAM VTT: 0.750v
Mem I/O VCCIO voltage: 1.35v
CPU System Agent Voltage: 1.30v

{DRAM TIMINGS}:

DRAM CAS# Latency [15]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay [15]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [35]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay L [6]
DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay S [4]
DRAM REF Cycle Time [300]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 2 [Auto]
DRAM REF Cycle Time 4 [Auto]
DRAM Refresh Interval [65535]
DRAM WRITE Recovery Time [12]
DRAM READ to PRE Time [6]
DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time [16]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay L [Auto]
DRAM WRITE to READ Delay S [Auto]
DRAM CKE Minimum Pulse Width [6]
DRAM Write Latency [14]

tRDRD_sg_Training [6]
tRDRD_sg_Runtime [6]
tRDRD_dg [4]
tRDWR_sg [11]
tRDWR_dg [11]
tWRWR_sg [6]
tWRWR_dg [4]
tWRRD_sg [26]
tWRRD_dg [21]
tRDRD_dr [6]
tRDRD_dd [7]
tRDWR_dr [11]
tRDWR_dd [11]
tWRWR_dr [7]
tWRWR_dd [7]
tWRRD_dr [6]
tWRRD_dd [6]
TWRPRE [Auto]
TRDPRE [Auto]
tREFIX9 [Auto]
OREF_RI [Auto]
PPD: 0
(Memory Training Algorithms)
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]

Which boots into windows for the first time just fine and runs stable, but if i reboot the computer and or turn it off. The computer will never post again. Any thoughts/insights?


----------



## musician

Thanh Nguyen said:


> So for best gaming result, gear 1 is a best option right?


It depends how good can you make your g1 vs g2. For example, g2 4533 17 17 17 37 will be _probably_ better than g1 3600 16 16 16 36. And g1 3866 14 14 14 28 will be _probably_ better than g2 4800 20 28 28 48.


----------



## roooo

@cstkl1 and others: I recon there are/will be F4-4000C16D-32 and F4-4400C17D-32 kits - if I'm aiming for G1 3866 with as tight as possible timings - which of these would you suggest for 11900K & M13A?

Furthermore, the GTRS, GTZA etc. naming stuff - is this of any relevance except the show-offy heatspreaders?

Cheers,
r.


----------



## bscool

@roooo Are you currently able to run 3866? I cant even boot 3866 gear 1 with z590 Apex/11900k. I figured it was just me missing something but then I see some others limited to 3733 Rocket Lake 32M Pi Tweaks for Noobs "Gear 1 needs binned to max out. 2 out 12 CPUs I have can do 4000 12-11, only one can do tras under 28. Some wont even train 3800 12-11"


----------



## roooo

bscool said:


> @roooo Are you currently able to run 3866? I cant even boot 3866 gear 1 with z590 Apex/11900k. I figured it was just me missing something but then I see some others limited to 3733 Rocket Lake 32M Pi Tweaks for Noobs "Gear 1 needs binned to max out. 2 out 12 CPUs I have can do 4000 12-11, only one can do tras under 28. Some wont even train 3800 12-11"


Oops, really? Then maybe I won the lottery this time  I can do 3866 with several kits: F4-4600C18D and F4-4800C18 (both 2x8GB) and Ballistix 4400C19 (2x16GB). All will do G1 3866 CR1 with more or less tight timings. The Gskill kits will do 14-15-36 HCI stable, Ballistix only 16-17-44. However, I had a Klevv Bolt XR 4000 kit that would not boot 3866 either. What BIOS are you on and did you already disable this 1D read voltage thingy (can look it up if you don't know what I mean)? I'm on BIOS 0801.

Edit: I just ordered F4-4000C16D-32 and will report back as soon as I have tested it...
Edit2: My 11900k is SP82, if that matters.


----------



## bscool

I have tried 3866 1t and 2t with bios 605, 801 and 707. With 1d read voltage disabled and all kinds of other settings enabled and disabled. I have bottom barrel 11900k. SP 54/55 depending on bios.


----------



## bscool

@roooo How high have you been able to run DR bdie in gear 2?


----------



## roooo

bscool said:


> I have tried 3866 1t and 2t with bios 605, 801 and 707. With 1d read voltage disabled and all kinds of other settings enabled and disabled. I have bottom barrel 11900k. SP 54/55 depending on bios.


That don't sound good. TBH considering time & money you already put into it I would sell it and get another one...can't get much worse, can it?! ;-)


----------



## roooo

bscool said:


> @roooo How high have you been able to run DR bdie in gear 2?


AFAIK all of the above kits are SR. It got the F4-4800 to post at 5330, boot at 5066 and HCI stable at sth like 4800-18-18-38 CR1 but did not try really hard because 3866 gear 1 tight is the way to go for me. The Klevv kit would do 5066 semi-stable but with quite loose timings (22-25-54?). As I posted some time ago, I figured that the F4-XXXX BDie kits are very sensitive to a too high VCCIO MEM OC, thus I hit a wall when driving them with more than 1.27V. Vdimm was 1.6V, SA 1.40V IIRC.


----------



## bscool

I haven't been able to run higher than 4800 on SR with 11900k/Z590 Apex. I see other running 5000+ on SR so I would think it is my CPU but weirdly enough the 11900k would run 5000+ in z490 Apex.


----------



## auraofjason

joneffingvo said:


> Hey guys currently running 11900k (5.1 all core) w/ Maximus XIII Hero (801 bios). Ram is G.Skill F4-4000C16D-32GTZNA (16-16-16-36) currently running at 4266 (16-17-17-37). I tried the following:
> 
> Which boots into windows for the first time just fine and runs stable, but if i reboot the computer and or turn it off. The computer will never post again. Any thoughts/insights?


Happened to me too, there's a bios option somewhere called "Boot Voltages" and increasing my vccsa and vccio mem oc boot voltages fixed the issue for me. I guess those voltages need to be higher during boot than is needed in windows.


----------



## IronAge

Probably required for Re-Training subs @ Boot ?!

I got Crucial Ballistix Max SR 4400 CL19 pretested @ DDR4-4800 CL18-22 with 1.45V with Ryzen.

See what they do with another 11700K on M13A by end of the week.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> I have tried 3866 1t and 2t with bios 605, 801 and 707. With 1d read voltage disabled and all kinds of other settings enabled and disabled. I have bottom barrel 11900k. SP 54/55 depending on bios.


Nvr had problems running DR 3866 on M13A. I have tried several chips with SPs 78,80,95

Currently running DR 3866 15-15-30 1.45V, IO1=1.1V, MCIO=1.2V, SA=1.4V.









11th gen has a large deviation in the IMC quality. If that is an SP55 chip I would just sell it. No chance for a good IMC to be on that terrible silicon.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> @cstkl1 and others: I recon there are/will be F4-4000C16D-32 and F4-4400C17D-32 kits - if I'm aiming for G1 3866 with as tight as possible timings - which of these would you suggest for 11900K & M13A?
> 
> Furthermore, the GTRS, GTZA etc. naming stuff - is this of any relevance except the show-offy heatspreaders?
> 
> Cheers,
> r.


dual rank. luck of the draw









ripjaw 10 layer pcb


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I haven't been able to run higher than 4800 on SR with 11900k/Z590 Apex. I see other running 5000+ on SR so I would think it is my CPU but weirdly enough the 11900k would run 5000+ in z490 Apex.


0801 mode 2


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nvr had problems running DR 3866 on M13A. I have tried several chips with SPs 78,80,95
> 
> Currently running DR 3866 15-15-30 1.45V, IO1=1.1V, MCIO=1.2V, SA=1.4V.
> View attachment 2490070
> 
> 
> 11th gen has a large deviation in the IMC quality. If that is an SP55 chip I would just sell it. No chance for a good IMC to be on that terrible silicon.


I haven't been able to get 3866 to boot on a non apex maximus formula board with my 2x16 3600 c14 bdie gskills.

Hoping future bios's will be more supportive of this... mind you, I haven't gone to extremes with voltages though running sp85.


----------



## Bilco

cstkl1 said:


> 0801 mode 2


What do you mean by mode 2?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> I haven't been able to get 3866 to boot on a non apex maximus formula board with my 2x16 3600 c14 bdie gskills.
> 
> Hoping future bios's will be more supportive of this... mind you, I haven't gone to extremes with voltages though running sp85.


3866 don't need extreme volts in most cases. If it can't boot, then that's it, either the board or the chip (seems not). If you can boot 4000 dual-channel then maybe you only need MCIO=1.3V, SA=1.5V to run (voltages from SP 104 and SP 93).

Can try to tweak ODT and training algorithms to see if helps.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3866 don't need extreme volts in most cases. If it can't boot, then that's it, either the board or the chip (seems not). If you can boot 4000 dual-channel then maybe you only need MCIO=1.3V, SA=1.5V to run (voltages from SP 104 and SP 93).
> 
> Can try to tweak ODT and training algorithms to see if helps.


Yeah I managed to run much further same board diff cpu 10850k previously but um SA wise I think I've only gone up to 1.4v to test. mcio is currently 1.33v and I did push that to 1.4v when trying to post as 3866 as well. I did enable RTL but yeah maybe ODT will need to be tweaked but at this stage that part is a little beyond me.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> 0801 mode 2


I just spent an hour or so trying all kinds of combos of voltages and timings with mode 2 and mode 1 etc. 3866 is a no go for me. Just boot loops or 00 or 50 code error. 3733 works fine.

Also I think I might have found the cause(or one of them) of WIFI and Bluetooth disappearing from bios. Loading saved CMO files from a different bios version. To get them back I load defaults and reboot and they were back.

Also a screen of my glorious sp55, it is voltage look worse than previous bios versions


----------



## shamino1978

RKL OCTVB Preview Bios
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0020.rar
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0019.rar

Guide:
rkl_octvb.docx


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I just spent an hour or so trying all kinds of combos of voltages and timings with mode 2 and mode 1 etc. 3866 is a no go for me. Just boot loops or 00 or 50 code error. 3733 works fine.
> 
> Also I think I might have found the cause(or one of them) of WIFI and Bluetooth disappearing from bios. Loading saved CMO files from a different bios version. To get them back I load defaults and reboot and they were back.
> 
> Also a screen of my glorious sp55, it is voltage look worse than previous bios versions


leave cmd auto.. so no algo cmd training will be done.

till date i am not 100% stable on 3866c14.. meaning it wont go 1000% perfect on everyboot
could be heat as apex bdie DR are damn hot as they are next to each other compare to extreme
SR bdie much easier than dual rank on gear 1

also a good indicator of good ram chipset for RKL be it bdie or djr
they all have VERY low trfc. like you see sugi and safedisk . i will bsod if even try that


----------



## joneffingvo

auraofjason said:


> Happened to me too, there's a bios option somewhere called "Boot Voltages" and increasing my vccsa and vccio mem oc boot voltages fixed the issue for me. I guess those voltages need to be higher during boot than is needed in windows.


bingo! it was the system agent voltage, bumped it to 1.35v and it works now!


----------



## musician

Since i can´t get my bdie dr run stable at 4533 yet, i decided to try to tight timings at 4400 a bit more. 14 hours of ram torture tests passed.
I have to thanks mainly to cstkl1, Falkentyne, OLDFATSHEEP and Nizzen. I started with ram oc like a month ago, with literally zero knowledge. All i did was to go back like 40 pages on this forum, same on the 24/7 ram stable thread, and ctrl-c ctrl-v all your posts. Together with github memtesthelper page, i got amazing source of your knowledge. At beginning I just copied your posted profiles, tried to customize them a bit, change something here and there and so on. Today, I have finally an idea what some settings do, what is good, bad etc. I learned a lot thanks to you. Indeed, I am nowhere near to master all the ram oc tricks like you, and I will never be able to do this, but I yet am able to do at least something and it´s great motivation for me. Thank you!


----------



## Arni90

shamino1978 said:


> RKL OCTVB Preview Bios
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0020.rar
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0019.rar
> 
> Guide:
> rkl_octvb.docx


Just flashed, new µCode too. Now µCode 40
Going to have to test if this impacts performance in any way.


----------



## Bilco

Any tips on stabilizing F4-4000C15D-16GTRS at 5000c18???

I was able to get 4800 18-22-22-42 to run easy with 1.33sa at 1.505v

I went straight to 5000 with 18-22-22-42, rest on auto. Didn't seem like any permutation of SA/IO 1.1-1.5 or DRAM up to 1.6v would work for testmem5's default test #1( 0mb, 16mb) and sometimes test #0 would also fail - system would freeze and I'd have to force a restart.

19-22-22-42 was the same thing. TRAF Auto was 800+. Is there another timing/refresh that would cause this sort of lock up or am I pretty much goign to have to further loosen timings?

Learning still so if anyone has any ideas to test I would be happy to hear.

Also, looks like the F4-4800c17 is available to preorder now: G.Skill 16GB G.Skill DDR4 4800MHz CL17 Memory Upgrade Kit


----------



## YaqY

Bilco said:


> Any tips on stabilizing F4-4000C15D-16GTRS at 5000c18???
> 
> I was able to get 4800 18-22-22-42 to run easy with 1.33sa at 1.505v
> 
> I went straight to 5000 with 18-22-22-42, rest on auto. Didn't seem like any permutation of SA/IO 1.1-1.5 or DRAM up to 1.6v would work for testmem5's default test #1( 0mb, 16mb) and sometimes test #0 would also fail - system would freeze and I'd have to force a restart.
> 
> 19-22-22-42 was the same thing. TRAF Auto was 800+. Is there another timing/refresh that would cause this sort of lock up or am I pretty much goign to have to further loosen timings?
> 
> Learning still so if anyone has any ideas to test I would be happy to hear.
> 
> Also, looks like the F4-4800c17 is available to preorder now: G.Skill 16GB G.Skill DDR4 4800MHz CL17 Memory Upgrade Kit


Binned bdie. Know people who can post it but not stabilise on their kits.


----------



## Bilco

YaqY said:


> Binned bdie. Know people who can post it but not stabilise on their kits.


Well, I guess I am in that boat for the most part.... I was able to post and run AIDA 90% of the time... but doing other things just hard locks... I guess ill try messing with refreshes and loosen the other timings.

So between 4800c18 and 4000c15... is the 4800c18 the better bin???


----------



## YaqY

Bilco said:


> Well, I guess I am in that board for the most part.... I was able to post and run AIDA 90% of the time... but doing other things just hard locks... I guess ill try messing with refreshes and loosen the other timings.
> 
> So between 4800c18 and 4000c15... is the 4800c18 the better bin???


I think this is luck of draw too, I’ve seen some strong 4000c15 kits. The price of 4800c18 is quite high so can maybe bin a few 4000c15 at that point but it’s all lucky really.


----------



## Bilco

YaqY said:


> I think this is luck of draw too, I’ve seen some strong 4000c15 kits. The price of 4800c18 is quite high so can maybe bin a few 4000c15 at that point but it’s all lucky really.


Yea, that's what I was afraid of


----------



## IronAge

shamino1978 said:


> RKL OCTVB Preview Bios


You have one for the M13 Hero too ?


----------



## Bilco

Arni90 said:


> Just flashed, new µCode too. Now µCode 40
> Going to have to test if this impacts performance in any way.


Let me know if it changes performance at all or prior memory profiles. Somewhat happy with the results im getting from these kits and wouldnt want to lose them. Able to boot 3866 G1 with my SP85 and 4800c18 which is meh I suppose


----------



## encrypted11

11900K in stock at Best Buy now, $549.99 plus tax


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Well, I guess I am in that boat for the most part.... I was able to post and run AIDA 90% of the time... but doing other things just hard locks... I guess ill try messing with refreshes and loosen the other timings.
> 
> So between 4800c18 and 4000c15... is the 4800c18 the better bin???


Only my first 4800C18D was good. The 2nd and 3rd kits were just junk.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Single DR Dimm 4000 gear 1


----------



## bscool

Bios 020 let me boot and run 4533c17 DR b die with no other changes to Memory Algorithms like I need to before. Also left all voltages on auto and where bios 801 needed high manual volts before for memory io and sa Haven't test stability just ran a quick Adia64 bench. Still cant boot 3866 1:1 though.

This is just for my CPU I know others could run 4533 previously with low mem io/sa.

Edit: 4533c17 crashes or errors right away unless I set the same settings as previous bios.

Early Command Training [Enabled]
Late Command Training [Enabled]
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Enabled]
Rank Margin Tool [Disabled] 

I have been using these setting Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion for the last week or so gaming and no issues/crashes. Just short mem test as I don't plan on running it long term.


----------



## spin5000

If my goal is to get 5.4 - 5.5 GHz on only 2 cores and an all-core of 5.1 GHz (or bare minimum 5.0 GHz), would any of the following matter?:

a) 11900k instead of 11700K (maybe the 11900Ks are generally binned higher which may drastically increase my chances of a 5.4 - 5.5 2-core-only OC)?

b) Stepping of the chip? I think I previously read in this thread that SP55 chips should be avoided for people trying to push high OCs? Any other steppings to avoid? Steppings to try and purchase?


P.S. My MB is a Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Ultra, RAM is G.Skill Samsung B-die 2x8GB 3600MHz 16-16-16-36 but I also want to get faster RAM to take advantage of the new CPU's and MB's improved RAM speed/OC potential (compared to my current 9700K and Z390 Aorus Pro).


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series 0901 Beta Bios*

1. Improve system performance
2. Update microcode (0x40 version)

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0901 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0901.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0901 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0901.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME 0901 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0901.7z

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL 0901 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-GLACIAL-ASUS-0901.7z


*ROG STRIX Z590 Series 0901 Beta Bios*

1. Improve system performance
2. Update microcode (0x40 version)

ROG STRIX Z590-A GAMING WIFI
ROG-STRIX-Z590-A-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0901.rar

ROG STRIX Z590-F GAMING WIFI
ROG-STRIX-Z590-F-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0901.rar

ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI
ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0901.rar

ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI
ROG-STRIX-Z590-I-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0901.rar


----------



## safedisk

pdixon0 said:


> Hey SafeDisk
> 
> Is there a version for ROG STRIX Z590-E by any chance?
> 
> Is this a custom BIOS or will it appear on the ASUS support page at any point?
> 
> Thanks!


Hey Yon can download  
ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0901.rar


----------



## xl_digit

@savedisk

hi, why you did remove your post of the new 0901 BETA Bios for ASUS Z590 Series ?
i allread downloaded and installed it.

is there a problem with it ?

best regards.


----------



## IronAge

@xl_digit

Edit: Found.


----------



## Spiriva

xl_digit said:


> @savedisk
> 
> hi, why you did remove your post of the new 0901 BETA Bios for ASUS Z590 Series ?
> i allread downloaded and installed it.
> 
> is there a problem with it ?
> 
> best regards.


I flashed 0901 too for my HERO XIII, it seems to work just fine so far tho 



We'll be back.



post #29 got all the z590 bios 0901 listed.


----------



## safedisk

xl_digit said:


> @savedisk
> 
> hi, why you did remove your post of the new 0901 BETA Bios for ASUS Z590 Series ?
> i allread downloaded and installed it.
> 
> is there a problem with it ?
> 
> best regards.


I haven't deleted the post 
I saw a message that the administrator's approval was required

"This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors."

So need time I think the link address of many mb is probably the problem


----------



## IronAge

@safedisk 

Great Bios Support from Asus, just bought another M13A, so let your Boss know that it affects sales.


----------



## Nizzen

Z590 0901 Bios

ROG-STRIX-Z590-F-GAMING-WIFI https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mwdpgcpwn...-0901.rar?dl=0
ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING https://www.dropbox.com/s/atcgaa3jqg...-0901.rar?dl=0
ROG-STRIX-Z590-A-GAMING-WIFI https://www.dropbox.com/s/zd85k0uy1y...-0901.rar?dl=0
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO https://www.dropbox.com/s/seg5fuchr9...-0901.rar?dl=0
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX https://www.dropbox.com/s/2zpgii491l...-0901.rar?dl=0
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9yy556orv...-0901.rar?dl=0


----------



## xl_digit

Asus Maximus Xiii Hero with delidded i9-11900K.

normal load ---4 [email protected] [email protected] --------------- heavy load - PRIME95 (large FFTs 16 Threads) [email protected]


----------



## xl_digit

3733CL14 Gear1









4533CL17 Gear2


----------



## bscool

@xl_digit what is the SP of your 11900k? Do you have a vf screenshot?

Also if anyone has been waiting for the 4400c17 2x16 kit they are out G.Skill 32GB G.Skill DDR4 4400MHz CL17 Memory Upgrade Kit I have set coming.


----------



## xl_digit

bscool said:


> @xl_digit what is the SP of your 11900k? Do you have a vf screenshot?


my 11900k has a silicon prediction of 81.



IronAge said:


> @safedisk
> 
> Great Bios Support from Asus, just bought another M13A, so let your Boss know that it affects sales.


100% agree


----------



## bigcid10

joneffingvo said:


> bingo! it was the system agent voltage, bumped it to 1.35v and it works now!


nice Bully,I have one just like it


----------



## sugi0lover

Here is 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T (1:1)














All timinigs are optimized, voltages are not optimized.

CPU : 11900K
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 0901)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
Memory OC : 3866Mhz-13-13-13-28-215-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.590v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.35v / Mem OC IO 1.350v
Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)


----------



## sugi0lover

Today, I have some time. So here is 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2), Latency 39.7ns
This is my 24/7 use setting for a while.
















CPU : 11900K
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 0901)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
Memory OC : 5066Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.615v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.42v / Mem OC IO 1.370v
Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Today, I have some time. So here is 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2), Latency 39.7ns
> This is my 24/7 use setting for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490494
> 
> 
> 
> CPU : 11900K
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 0901)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
> Memory OC : 5066Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.615v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.42v / Mem OC IO 1.370v
> Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)


Nice job 
I'd love too see Tombraider 720p lowest settings benchmark on this setup!

Maybe 270+fps?


----------



## YaqY

sugi0lover said:


> Today, I have some time. So here is 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2), Latency 39.7ns
> This is my 24/7 use setting for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490494
> 
> 
> 
> CPU : 11900K
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 0901)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
> Memory OC : 5066Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.615v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.42v / Mem OC IO 1.370v
> Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)


Nice setups. If you do get to running sottr for nizzen any chance you can run 800x600 lowest AA off. Just interested how this runs on both your setups thanks.


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Nice job
> I'd love too see Tombraider 720p lowest settings benchmark on this setup!
> 
> Maybe 270+fps?


I just did the bench and found out that the scores are almost the same regardless of CPU 5.2~5.4, or resolution 720P, 600P. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Groove2013

Has anybody managed to run 2x16 GB Samsung B-DIE at 4800 MHz?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> I just did the bench and found out that the scores are almost the same regardless of CPU 5.2~5.4, or resolution 720P, 600P. Am I missing something here?
> View attachment 2490500
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490501
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490505


For all of those and its gaming perf is still bad?


----------



## YaqY

sugi0lover said:


> I just did the bench and found out that the scores are almost the same regardless of CPU 5.2~5.4, or resolution 720P, 600P. Am I missing something here?
> View attachment 2490500
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490501
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490505


Looks like you don’t have full version of the game?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Has anybody managed to run 2x16 GB Samsung B-DIE at 4800 MHz?


only @safedisk with his delta fans i think lol
for benching

msi toppc unify X is definitely not air/water.


----------



## sugi0lover

YaqY said:


> Looks like you don’t have full version of the game?


I only have the demo version.
If you have full version, can you download demo version and compare the results?


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> For all of those and its gaming perf is still bad?


My version is demo, and it feels like demo has cap becuase fps is not affected by cpu clk and resolution.


----------



## Arni90

sugi0lover said:


> I just did the bench and found out that the scores are almost the same regardless of CPU 5.2~5.4, or resolution 720P, 600P. Am I missing something here?
> View attachment 2490500
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490501
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490505


Gear 2 is simply slower for games




















This was at 54x for 3 cores, 53x for 6 cores, 52x for 8 cores, up 45 ring (ring-to-core downbin on auto)

Funnily enough, Mass Effect 1 in the Legendary Edition seems to be worse for memory stability than Karhu, I actually BSODed with a MEMORY_MANAGEMENT error, so I've loosened timings to the pic below:










Your Cinebench scores are impressive however.


----------



## sugi0lover

Arni90 said:


> Gear 2 is simply slower for games
> 
> View attachment 2490523
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2490524
> 
> 
> This was at 54x for 3 cores, 53x for 6 cores, 52x for 8 cores, up 45 ring (ring-to-core downbin on auto)
> 
> Funnily enough, Mass Effect 1 in the Legendary Edition seems to be worse for memory stability than Karhu, I actually BSODed with a MEMORY_MANAGEMENT error, so I've loosened timings to the pic below:
> 
> View attachment 2490525
> 
> 
> Your Cinebench scores are impressive however.


Thanks for your info! I saw 1:2 4800 and over beat 1:1 3733, but I will test it myself with 3866 13 13 and let you know.


----------



## sugi0lover

tested 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T (1:1)
It's almost the same as 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T(1:2)
(I corrected typos 1:1 and 1:2. Sorry)
Since I don't have a full game, the result came from the Demo version, which shows no difference.


----------



## bscool

@sugi0lover I noticed the same even testing on 10th gen my scores are much lower on demo version. When I compared to peoples scores online with similar setup and they have the paid version.


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> @sugi0lover I noticed the same even testing on 10th gen my scores are much lower on demo version. When I compared to peoples scores online with similar setup and they have the paid version.


Oh, thanks a lot for sharing the info!


----------



## Bilco

Is there a reason I see a lot more 5066 vs 5000? Is it some ratio thing that's easier to hit?


----------



## xl_digit

Great Support and Community, 

Just bought another Asus M13A, hope it arrives soon.


----------



## EDK-TheONE

sugi0lover said:


> tested 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T (1:2)
> It's almost the same as 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T(1:1)
> Since I don't have a full game, the result came from the Demo version, which shows no difference.
> View attachment 2490541


could you try this test with 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T (1:1)?


----------



## Bluerain

If ABT causes BSOD (watchdog timeout) should I RMA the CPU? Motherboard is Maximus XIII Hero with bios 0901.


----------



## Esenel

EDK-TheONE said:


> could you try this test with 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T (1:1)?


He just put the Gear Mode wrong.
Because you will never see 5066 1:1 (Gear1)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Is there a reason I see a lot more 5066 vs 5000? Is it some ratio thing that's easier to hit?


19x (5066) vs 25x (5000) on the controller site. You probably won't even boot 1:1 3600 with 100:100.


----------



## Bilco

Here's an interesting kit: DR 4600cl19



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 19x (5066) vs 25x (5000) on the controller site. You probably won't even boot 1:1 3600 with 100:100.


Hmm, I was able to boot 5000cl18 but would fail memtest5 and get hard lock ups, think its worth retrying at 5066?


----------



## bscool

@sugi0lover Just did a run to double check with [email protected]/47 4400c16-17-17(2x16 DR b die) z490 Unify tight subs on SOTR demo build 505 and CPU game # about what yours are. It seems like a bug where the demo hits a wall.

Edit I see your CPU render are much higher. What does that mean? Clueless here  Google= "CPU Render" shows how fast the processor can feed the necessary data to the graphics card, and "GPU" indicates how fast the card can present the final image on the screen"


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Here's an interesting kit: DR 4600cl19
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, I was able to boot 5000cl18 but would fail memtest5 and get hard lock ups, think its worth retrying at 5066?


Should be DJR. OLOy is working with MSI for validating their rams.

EDIT: MAYBE MICRON TOO. NEEDS TO BE FURTHER CONFIRMED...

But that is too expensive, Bolt X 3600 2*16GB can boot 5066 but much cheaper.










5066 is much easier than 5000, worth trying.


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend stabilized 5333Mhz with the cheap memory kit.
KLEVV PC4-32000 (4000Mhz-CL19)
It's air cooled condition.
According to him, dram voltage can be as high as 1.82v without any error.

Anyway, I am sharing his result.
Voltages
- Dram : 1.72v / VCCIO Mem 1.5v / SA 1.6v


----------



## sugi0lover

Another my setup to share. 5000Mhz-CL16
My room is temp-controlled to around 23C. Without ram water block, my memory kit starts giving errors around 45C.
Personally, 5066 CL17 17 is better than 5000 CL16 17 at voltages, performance, and latency.

Anyway, here it is.
- CPU : 11900K
- M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 0901)
- Memory Kit : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
- Memory OC : 5000Mhz-16-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2)
- Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.700v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.42v / Mem OC IO 1.350v
- Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)


----------



## drnilly007

So after awful experience with amd 5900x in rma, looking to get a 11900k, which board do you all suggest that are in the $200-300 range, so I can overclock this ram set which is bdie DR








G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## morph.

xl_digit said:


> my 11900k has a silicon prediction of 81.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% agree


what notable voltages were you running SA MCIO dram etc


----------



## xl_digit

@morph. i'm running VCCSA 1.4V, VDram 1.5V all the rest with Auto


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Should be DJR. OLOy is working with MSI for validating their rams.
> 
> But that is too expensive, Bolt X 3600 2*16GB can boot 5066 but much cheaper.
> View attachment 2490576
> 
> 
> 
> 5066 is much easier than 5000, worth trying.


5200 dude with bolt XR....


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> 5200 dude with bolt XR....


I just briefly tried if that can boot 5066. Ordered a new CRAS XR. Let's see how this kit will do


----------



## morph.

@safedisk @shamino1978 @OLDFATSHEEP @cstkl1 finally had some time last night and decided to try the bios v2201 beta on my MF12 last night on my sp85 11900k. It's still not very friendly when detecting a PCIE ribbon 

The same result as the previous bios's can't seem to post/train with my dr bdie at 4400 or 4533 with SA even up to 1.45v & dram 1.5v with everything else just about on auto what am I missing?  I know this module can work at 4400 fine with my previous 10850k on the same board.

Microcode currently is 3Ch

Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated.

This is a gskill royal 3600c14 16x2 kit.. back to g1 3733 for now.

My 10850k on the same board/ram:









My system with sp85 11900k at 3733 g1:


----------



## truth hurts

2201 is great 1t working now
thanks


----------



## truth hurts

morph. said:


> @safedisk @shamino1978 @OLDFATSHEEP @cstkl1 finally had some time last night and decided to try the bios v2201 beta on my MF12 last night on my sp85 11900k. It's still not very friendly when detecting a PCIE ribbon
> 
> The same result as the previous bios's can't seem to post/train with my dr bdie at 4400 or 4533 with SA even up to 1.45v & dram 1.5v with everything else just about on auto what am I missing?  I know this module can work at 4400 fine with my previous 10850k on the same board.
> 
> Microcode currently is 3Ch
> 
> Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> This is a gskill royal 3600c14 16x2 kit.. back to g1 3733 for now.
> 
> My 10850k on the same board/ram:
> 
> 
> My system with sp85 11900k at 3733 g1:


you cant compare apples to oranges


----------



## morph.

truth hurts said:


> you cant compare apples to oranges


I'm aware just pointing out that ram bin / cpu chip quality shouldn't be the limiting problem... the 10850k was sp79 and the imc on it wasn't particularly strong either as I hit the stability wall at 4400. Not being even able to post at 4400 with my 11900k is very surprising...

Heh for science thought I'd try 1t on my 3733 with the new bios still no go.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> @safedisk @shamino1978 @OLDFATSHEEP @cstkl1 finally had some time last night and decided to try the bios v2201 beta on my MF12 last night on my sp85 11900k. It's still not very friendly when detecting a PCIE ribbon
> 
> The same result as the previous bios's can't seem to post/train with my dr bdie at 4400 or 4533 with SA even up to 1.45v & dram 1.5v with everything else just about on auto what am I missing?  I know this module can work at 4400 fine with my previous 10850k on the same board.
> 
> Microcode currently is 3Ch
> 
> Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> This is a gskill royal 3600c14 16x2 kit.. back to g1 3733 for now.
> 
> My 10850k on the same board/ram:
> View attachment 2490737
> 
> 
> My system with sp85 11900k at 3733 g1:
> View attachment 2490738


Haven't looked into details of DR bdie g2. But through a brief trial my previous kit that did 4666 on M12A only did 4400 on M13A. Auto 4533 17-17 won't boot. Probably you can try the suggestions from several posts ago on the training algos.

Besides, I don't know if you can set "VCCIO MEM OC" on M12F. Like the MSI Z490i lacks the control of "VCCIO MEM OC/IO2". If you have such option in BIOS, you can try set "VCCIO MEM OC" to 1.6V and see if it can train.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Haven't looked into details of DR bdie g2. But through a brief trial my previous kit that did 4666 on M12A only did 4400 on M13A. Auto 4533 17-17 won't boot. Probably you can try the suggestions from several posts ago on the training algos.
> 
> Besides, I don't know if you can set "VCCIO MEM OC" on M12F. Like the MSI Z490i lacks the control of "VCCIO MEM OC/IO2". If you have such option in BIOS, you can try set "VCCIO MEM OC" to 1.6V and see if it can train.


mcio is an available setting within yeah maybe I'll try raising that voltage further.

I did muck around with some training algos unfortunately it didn't seem to get much luck either.


----------



## encrypted11

On my Dan A4 7.2L ITX with the latest V11 MSI BIOS (vs V10) plus the help of Slew Control & ODT Tuning versus Auto ODTs & Slew Contro on V10l:
i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4533Mhz-C19-24-24-44-1T----1.59V---SA 1.17---MCIO 1.22V---Stressapptest----1 Hour
i9-11900K (SP89) @stock---4533Mhz-C19-24-24-44-1T----1.50V---SA 1.10---MCIO 1.22V---Stressapptest----1 Hour

No loss of performance, GSAT 1H Memory copy's within margin of error. This is on my 2nd best pair (which were not the best DJR DR's to begin with). I haven't applied my new tune on my best (not great either) DJR DR pair that does 4800 C19 GSAT 1H & 4533 C18 1H so far. Hope I'll get some time for revisiting this in a couple of weeks.


----------



## truth hurts

morph. said:


> I'm aware just pointing out that ram bin / cpu chip quality shouldn't be the limiting problem... the 10850k was sp79 and the imc on it wasn't particularly strong either as I hit the stability wall at 4400. Not being even able to post at 4400 with my 11900k is very surprising...
> 
> Heh for science thought I'd try 1t on my 3733 with the new bios still no go.


i dont have any dual rank to try out with this bios but my other newer style b die sticks runs 4533 cl17 fine and can also go up to 5066 cl20


----------



## morph.

truth hurts said:


> i dont have any dual rank to try out with this bios but my other newer style b die sticks runs 4533 cl17 fine and can also go up to 5066 cl20


Yeah not sure where I stand with how new this is but it is fairly recent (not 11th gen recent but late 10th gen recent):


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Yeah not sure where I stand with how new this is but it is fairly recent (not 11th gen recent but late 10th gen recent):
> 
> View attachment 2490749


You can look at the first 4 digits of the SN (eg.: 2115=2021, 15th week) on your sticks.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You can look at the first 4 digits of the SN (eg.: 2115=2021, 15th week) on your sticks.


2051 heh so December last year


----------



## Lownage

New kits available in Germany:


https://www.alternate.de/Arbeitsspeicher/DDR4-RAM?s=default&filter_-4=true&filter_2729=2.0&filter_2743=4266.0&filter_2743=4800.0



Are these 5066 20-30-30-50 kits any good?


https://www.alternate.de/G-Skill/DIMM-16-GB-DDR4-5066-Kit-Arbeitsspeicher/html/product/1746330


----------



## Glottis

Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4-28800) C16 1.35V - €222
Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4-28800) C18 1.35V - €208
HyperX FURY Black HX436C18FB4K2/32 Memory Module 32 GB Kit (2 x 16 GB) 3600 MHz DDR4 CL18 DIMM - €181

Which of these 3 options should I go with for 11700K? I don't need nothing crazy, just regular good bang for buck low profile memory (this is really frustrating because so many sticks have hilariously huge heatsinks for no reason). I saw some benchmarks that 4 sticks have slight advantage over 2 sticks. Is it really worth going with 4 sticks? 2 sticks seems simpler and fewer points of failure.


----------



## sugi0lover

Someone asked me to share a few pictures of my actual Bios settings and instead, here is my profile (cmo) of 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T(pic below).






50661717_BIOS0901_Z590 Apex.CMO







drive.google.com














Here is also the link of testing [email protected] passing 1hr of Cinebench R20.
1Hr is 83 cycles passed.


----------



## sugi0lover

As some people requested, here is the benchmark of the full version Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
[email protected] + 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2)


----------



## YaqY

sugi0lover said:


> As some people requested, here is the benchmark of the full version Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
> [email protected] + 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2)
> View attachment 2511243


Thanks for the bench, can you run 800x600 and 1080p lowest as well if possible, just to get an idea of the resolution scaling if you have time.


----------



## sugi0lover

*s*


YaqY said:


> Thanks for the bench, can you run 800x600 and 1080p lowest as well if possible, just to get an idea of the resolution scaling if you have time.


No problem!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Glottis said:


> Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4-28800) C16 1.35V - €222
> Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4-28800) C18 1.35V - €208
> HyperX FURY Black HX436C18FB4K2/32 Memory Module 32 GB Kit (2 x 16 GB) 3600 MHz DDR4 CL18 DIMM - €181
> 
> Which of these 3 options should I go with for 11700K? I don't need nothing crazy, just regular good bang for buck low profile memory (this is really frustrating because so many sticks have hilariously huge heatsinks for no reason). I saw some benchmarks that 4 sticks have slight advantage over 2 sticks. Is it really worth going with 4 sticks? 2 sticks seems simpler and fewer points of failure.


KD4AGU880-36A180U 182,09 € at Amazon


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> As some people requested, here is the benchmark of the full version Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
> [email protected] + 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2)
> View attachment 2511243


Seems slower than 4000 14-14 gear1

From my cn friend:


----------



## weleh

Slower than 4000 gear 1 but is that daily usable?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

weleh said:


> Slower than 4000 gear 1 but is that daily usable?


It depends


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It depends
> View attachment 2511259


Luck with CPU and mobo sample(s) or very high voltages to be able to do 4000 MHz 1:1?

A screen of his voltages would have been really nice.


----------



## roooo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nvr had problems running DR 3866 on M13A. I have tried several chips with SPs 78,80,95
> 
> Currently running DR 3866 15-15-30 1.45V, IO1=1.1V, MCIO=1.2V, SA=1.4V.
> View attachment 2490070
> 
> 
> 11th gen has a large deviation in the IMC quality. If that is an SP55 chip I would just sell it. No chance for a good IMC to be on that terrible silicon.


Mind sharing what kit this is?


----------



## xl_digit

@Groove2013 on the screenshot i can see 

VDIMM: 1.576 
VCCIO: 1.056
VCCSA: 1.552


----------



## Groove2013

xl_digit said:


> @Groove2013 on the screenshot i can see
> 
> VDIMM: 1.576
> VCCIO: 1.056
> VCCSA: 1.552


I'm blind )
Don't know if 1.552 SA is for 4000 MHz or for CL14 or for both.

Edit: nvm, it's just 16 GB...


----------



## Groove2013

If I can do 3866 MHz 1:1 on a 13 Apex with DR B-Die, it would be enough for me.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

roooo said:


> Mind sharing what kit this is?


F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA, here:








G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> If I can do 3866 MHz 1:1 on a 13 Apex with DR B-Die, it would be enough for me.


DR bdie 3866 would be easy on M13 APEX IMO.

But for 4000 dual channel, you really need some time to bin those chips.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

drnilly007 said:


> So after awful experience with amd 5900x in rma, looking to get a 11900k, which board do you all suggest that are in the $200-300 range, so I can overclock this ram set which is bdie DR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZSK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


MSI B560M A-PRO, 105 USD.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> DR bdie 3866 would be easy on M13 APEX IMO.
> 
> But for 4000 dual channel, you really need some time to bin those chips.


What's your chip SP?

What SA max voltage you would say is safe for 24/7, RAM and CPU on air?

I have here Triden Z Neo 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 1.5 V XMP.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> What's your chip SP?
> 
> What SA max voltage you would say is safe for 24/7, on air?
> 
> I have here Triden Z Neo 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 1.5 V XMP.


My current chip is SP 95, but my last SP 78 and 80 chips all had no problems running DR 3866.

I would keep SA below 1.52V all the time, since its within the Intel spec.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> My current chip is SP 95, but my last SP 78 and 80 chips all had no problems running DR 3866.
> 
> I would keep SA below 1.52V all the time, since its within the Intel spec.


Is SP95 not enough for 4000 MHz?
Or SP is only for cores and IMC is not part of SP rating?
Or 4000 1:1 s too much for DR?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> Is SP95 not enough for 4000 MHz?
> Or SP is only for cores and IMC is not part of SP rating?
> Or 4000 1:1 s too much for DR?


SP I think should be only for cores. But, high SP means this chip is likely from a good part of a wafer, thus a better chance to have a good IMC.

The IMC on this SP95 is fantastic, dropped 3866 SA requirement by ~0.07V compared to those lower SP chips. Currently still trying 4000 1:1 DR. Only booted single dimm DR bdie 4000 so far.


----------



## sugi0lover

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Seems slower than 4000 14-14 gear1
> 
> From my cn friend:
> 
> View attachment 2511257
> 
> 
> View attachment 2511258


Thanks a lot for the good info.
4000 cl14 (1:1) shows higher CPU Game.
5066 cl17 (1:2) shows higher CPU Render.
I wonder what's the difference bet. Cpu game and cpu render.









Anyway, I will bench with 3866 13 13 (1:1) and post it later.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks a lot for the good info.
> 4000 cl14 (1:1) shows higher CPU Game.
> 5066 cl17 (1:2) shows higher CPU Render.
> I wonder what's the difference bet. Cpu game and cpu render.
> Anyway, I will bench with 3866 13 13 (1:1) and post it later.


I guess CPU render means cpu transferring data to the GPU, thus prefers high bandwidth?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Is SP95 not enough for 4000 MHz?
> Or SP is only for cores and IMC is not part of SP rating?
> Or 4000 1:1 s too much for DR?


its 90% depends on your ram chipset quality

a bdie DR that capable of doing [email protected] 
is the da best.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> its 90% depends on your ram chipset quality
> 
> a bdie DR that capable of doing [email protected]
> is the da best.


sb has done gear 1 4266 MHz already  DJR 26-31


----------



## drnilly007

What is the SP rating i see yall talking about? How do you get the rating


----------



## Groove2013

I wonder if a 5.2 GHz 10900K can compensate for lower IPC by using DR 4400-4600 CL16/17 vs. 5.2 GHz 11900K DR 3866 CL15.

Or not all/many games benefit from better/higher tuned RAM, but all/many games benefit from faster CPU?


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> I wonder if a 5.2 GHz 10900K can compensate for lower IPC by using DR 4400-4600 CL16/17 vs. 5.2 GHz 11900K DR 3866 CL15.
> 
> Or not all/many games benefit from better/higher tuned RAM, but all/many games benefit from faster CPU?


From what i've seen the performance is generally quite similar, 10th gen faster in some titles and 11th in a select few. I guess running 4500+ dual rank is a bit more work to tune (and a bit of lottery with the ram sticks/need good board) than say 3733/3866 Gear 1 on 11th gen. Pricing also matters too, 10900k/f have been going for quite cheap prices at-least in the US recently.


----------



## roooo

So I received my Gskill F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA kit (B-die DR, rated 16-16-16-36, 1.40V) yesterday and must say...either @cstkl1 hit the nail with "luck of the draw", or the kit generally doesn't deliver well in Gear 1. I was previously running 2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C19 (Micron SR?) in Gear 1 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 HCI stable (M13A 0901, 11900K), but with the Gskill kit, I was not even able to boot 3866 with CR1 and reasonable primaries. I tried XMP1 and XMP2 as well as Mode 1 and 2. I also did some variations of voltages with Vdimm 1.4..1.5V, VCMIO 1.2..1.45V, VCCIO 1.05..1.15V, VCCSA 1.3..1.5V but even 3733-15-15-15-36 CR2 wasn't HCI stable. I think I'm gonna return it but would be interested if there's any other opinions on that kit.


----------



## YaqY

roooo said:


> So I received my Gskill F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA kit (B-die DR, rated 16-16-16-36, 1.40V) yesterday and must say...either @cstkl1 hit the nail with "luck of the draw", or the kit generally doesn't deliver well in Gear 1. I was previously running 2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C19 (Micron SR?) in Gear 1 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 HCI stable (M13A 0901, 11900K), but with the Gskill kit, I was not even able to boot 3866 with CR1 and reasonable primaries. I tried XMP1 and XMP2 as well as Mode 1 and 2. I also did some variations of voltages with Vdimm 1.4..1.5V, VCMIO 1.2..1.45V, VCCIO 1.05..1.15V, VCCSA 1.3..1.5V but even 3733-15-15-15-36 CR2 wasn't HCI stable. I think I'm gonna return it but would be interested if there's any other opinions on that kit.


Dual rank bdie is harder to run on the IMC too, you can't directly compare micron to dual rank bdie.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

roooo said:


> So I received my Gskill F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA kit (B-die DR, rated 16-16-16-36, 1.40V) yesterday and must say...either @cstkl1 hit the nail with "luck of the draw", or the kit generally doesn't deliver well in Gear 1. I was previously running 2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C19 (Micron SR?) in Gear 1 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 HCI stable (M13A 0901, 11900K), but with the Gskill kit, I was not even able to boot 3866 with CR1 and reasonable primaries. I tried XMP1 and XMP2 as well as Mode 1 and 2. I also did some variations of voltages with Vdimm 1.4..1.5V, VCMIO 1.2..1.45V, VCCIO 1.05..1.15V, VCCSA 1.3..1.5V but even 3733-15-15-15-36 CR2 wasn't HCI stable. I think I'm gonna return it but would be interested if there's any other opinions on that kit.


Try ODT 80-48-40, vref auto, mcio 1.35V, SA 1.55V for 3866


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try ODT 80-48-40, vref auto, mcio 1.35V, SA 1.55V for 3866


thats the default auto odt for bdie DR bro. 

afaik only SR is diff


----------



## IronAge

drnilly007 said:


> What is the SP rating i see yall talking about? How do you get the rating


It is a value displayed in the UEFI menu of the better mobos from Asus together with an estimation of the sweetspot of the CPU running certain clock rates avx/non-AVX. AFAIK its mainly based on VID.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> So I received my Gskill F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA kit (B-die DR, rated 16-16-16-36, 1.40V) yesterday and must say...either @cstkl1 hit the nail with "luck of the draw", or the kit generally doesn't deliver well in Gear 1. I was previously running 2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C19 (Micron SR?) in Gear 1 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 HCI stable (M13A 0901, 11900K), but with the Gskill kit, I was not even able to boot 3866 with CR1 and reasonable primaries. I tried XMP1 and XMP2 as well as Mode 1 and 2. I also did some variations of voltages with Vdimm 1.4..1.5V, VCMIO 1.2..1.45V, VCCIO 1.05..1.15V, VCCSA 1.3..1.5V but even 3733-15-15-15-36 CR2 wasn't HCI stable. I think I'm gonna return it but would be interested if there's any other opinions on that kit.


its actually me quoting from my conversation with @safedisk 

ram chipset really big diff in rkl. 

one of the common indicator to see the "quality" of the ram is trfc. 
good ones are really low


----------



## roooo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try ODT 80-48-40, vref auto, mcio 1.35V, SA 1.55V for 3866


Thanks a lot - the ODT settings obviously did the trick for me!  I'm now able to run 3866-14-14-14-32 CR2 at Vdimm=1.5V, MCIO=1.3V, SA=1.5V, but HCI will start throwing an error or two after 30..50%. This could not be solved by varying voltages. AIDA will give me 58/58/60/41.2. In contrast, with the Ballistix Max 4400C19 running at 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 I'm getting 61/59/59/42.3 - but this is 200% HCI stable. I'm currently still leaning towards the Ballistix, they seem to be working better for me.



cstkl1 said:


> thats the default auto odt for bdie DR bro.
> afaik only SR is diff


Then sth must have been off for me, see above.

What ODT would you suggest using with the Micron SR?


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try ODT 80-48-40, vref auto, mcio 1.35V, SA 1.55V for 3866


is 1.55v sa safe for 24x7 operation?


----------



## Groove2013

morph. said:


> is 1.55v sa safe for 24x7 operation?


1.52V SA is Intel max allowed.
Better to stay below.


----------



## Arni90

This might only apply to my 11900K, but I've noticed that boot requirements for VCCSA are a lot higher than what you need for standard operation:
I can set SA boot voltage in DIGI+ VRM to 1.55V, and the regular VCCSA to 1.45V
This will still pass memory stress tests, but VCCSA is lower outside of boot operation


----------



## roooo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA, here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


This seems pretty much the same kit as I have, I got the GTZRA version. Weird how different results are. Apart from IMC variations and general variations in mem quality - do you think that it does make a difference between the Trident-Z and the Royal kits in terms of binning?


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Thanks a lot - the ODT settings obviously did the trick for me!  I'm now able to run 3866-14-14-14-32 CR2 at Vdimm=1.5V, MCIO=1.3V, SA=1.5V, but HCI will start throwing an error or two after 30..50%. This could not be solved by varying voltages. AIDA will give me 58/58/60/41.2. In contrast, with the Ballistix Max 4400C19 running at 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 I'm getting 61/59/59/42.3 - but this is 200% HCI stable. I'm currently still leaning towards the Ballistix, they seem to be working better for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Then sth must have been off for me, see above.
> 
> What ODT would you suggest using with the Micron SR?


i havent seen any indication of odt helping anything in rkl

cmd skews yes. 

for [email protected] bdie dr i tested mcio 1.05/sa 1.4


----------



## Groove2013

Is it possible to have different frequency for different cores, some having it higher, even when there is full load on all the cores and not just when the load is light or just on few cores?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Is it possible to have different frequency for different cores, some having it higher, even when there is full load on all the cores and not just when the load is light or just on few cores?


yes. set sync all core to max core clock
and change per core limit


----------



## Groove2013

And is it possible to adjust the voltage of each core??
So I can select only 1 core to stress in Prime95 and set affinity to exactly this specific core.
To find which core can do which frequency and at which voltage.


----------



## shamino1978

Groove2013 said:


> Is it possible to have different frequency for different cores, some having it higher, even when there is full load on all the cores and not just when the load is light or just on few cores?


yes just set by core usage every active core use to the maximum ratio you want to see possible then cap each specific core by setting specific core ratio limits


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> is 1.55v sa safe for 24x7 operation?


Just for POST.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

roooo said:


> This seems pretty much the same kit as I have, I got the GTZRA version. Weird how different results are. Apart from IMC variations and general variations in mem quality - do you think that it does make a difference between the Trident-Z and the Royal kits in terms of binning?


Binning should be the same. The only difference is based on the lottery 

For the unstable case, increase tRCD or MCIO may help.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> thats the default auto odt for bdie DR bro.
> 
> afaik only SR is diff


Maybe incorrect ODT, maybe improper IO/SA...Fix both to make sure he can post.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

roooo said:


> Thanks a lot - the ODT settings obviously did the trick for me!  I'm now able to run 3866-14-14-14-32 CR2 at Vdimm=1.5V, MCIO=1.3V, SA=1.5V, but HCI will start throwing an error or two after 30..50%. This could not be solved by varying voltages. AIDA will give me 58/58/60/41.2. In contrast, with the Ballistix Max 4400C19 running at 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 I'm getting 61/59/59/42.3 - but this is 200% HCI stable. I'm currently still leaning towards the Ballistix, they seem to be working better for me.
> 
> What ODT would you suggest using with the Micron SR?


Performance of 1T and 2T for gear 1 are not too different. But for gear 2 1T runs much faster than 2T.

You can try 80-0-48 or 80-0-0 for Micron B.


----------



## sugi0lover

I have been curious about the performance of gear 1 and gear 2, so I did test myself based on my real world application.
My monitor is 3440 x 1440, so I did all tests on that resolution with max option.

CPU : [email protected] (Cache 4.5Ghz)
Gear 1 : 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T
Gear 2 : 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T










There are so many pics, so I will just link the post here.








쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


안녕하세요~그동안 기어1 (1:1)과 기어2(1:2) 게이밍 성능이 궁금했는데, 제가 쓰는 환경에서 어떤 램오버 세팅을 쓸지 결정하기 위해 테스트를 진행해 봤습니다.특히



coolenjoy.net


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> I have been curious about the performance of gear 1 and gear 2, so I did test myself based on my real world application.
> My monitor is 3440 x 1440, so I did all tests on that resolution with max option.
> 
> CPU : [email protected] (Cache 4.5Ghz)
> Gear 1 : 3866-13-13-13-28-215-2T
> Gear 2 : 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T
> 
> View attachment 2511380
> 
> 
> There are so many pics, so I will just link the post here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 안녕하세요~그동안 기어1 (1:1)과 기어2(1:2) 게이밍 성능이 궁금했는데, 제가 쓰는 환경에서 어떤 램오버 세팅을 쓸지 결정하기 위해 테스트를 진행해 봤습니다.특히
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net


So basically same or even lower perf with 5066 MHz and limited to only 16 GB.

I would prefer 3866 MHz instead, but 32 GB.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> So basically same or even lower perf with 5066 MHz and limited to only 16 GB.
> 
> I would prefer 3866 MHz instead, but 32 GB.


You have to understand most of these scenarios are quite gpu limited, hence the small difference in frames.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> You have to understand most of these scenarios are quite gpu limited, hence the small difference in frames.


Well, yes, certainly. But it's a RTX 3090 that limits here, to some extent.
Not even talking about more affordable GPUs.
But it's the perf you get at sattings you usually play.
Showing screens with perf difference at 800x600 or 1280x720 and low graphics is kinda useless, since once you will set everything to how you really use it, this difference will be gone or will be almost none.

People want to see real perf difference, if there is one, at settings they might use.
Not perf difference that will disappear and at settings they won't use.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Well, yes, certainly. But it's a RTX 3090 that limits here, to some extent.
> Not even talking about more affordable GPUs.
> But it's the perf you get at sattings you usually play.
> Showing screens with perf difference at 800x600 or 1280x720 and low graphics is kinda useless, since once you will set everything to how you really use it, this difference will be gone or will be almost none.
> 
> People want to see real perf difference, if there is one, at settings they might use.
> Not perf difference that will disappear and at settings they won't use.


That is not what I’m saying, bench style settings that you run, for me this is 1080p. I only like to use Lower resolutions sometimes to create a more cpu bound scenario.


----------



## cstkl1

every tool has its purpose.

mcio 1.05, SA 1.35


----------



## sugi0lover

tRAS can be optimized really low. Before, 28 was the lowest but now 14 is easy.
Good job Asus!

3866-13-13-13-14-215-2t (gear 1)


----------



## joneffingvo

Seeing some of these results makes me jealous. I cant even hit 5.2 all core with my SP97


----------



## drnilly007

roooo said:


> So I received my Gskill F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA kit (B-die DR, rated 16-16-16-36, 1.40V) yesterday and must say...either @cstkl1 hit the nail with "luck of the draw", or the kit generally doesn't deliver well in Gear 1. I was previously running 2x16GB Crucial Ballistix Max 4000C19 (Micron SR?) in Gear 1 3866-15-17-17-44 CR1 HCI stable (M13A 0901, 11900K), but with the Gskill kit, I was not even able to boot 3866 with CR1 and reasonable primaries. I tried XMP1 and XMP2 as well as Mode 1 and 2. I also did some variations of voltages with Vdimm 1.4..1.5V, VCMIO 1.2..1.45V, VCCIO 1.05..1.15V, VCCSA 1.3..1.5V but even 3733-15-15-15-36 CR2 wasn't HCI stable. I think I'm gonna return it but would be interested if there's any other opinions on that kit.


Can you post your xmp stock Zen timings @4000, I have a gskill DR bdie but xmp 3200


----------



## drnilly007

joneffingvo said:


> Seeing some of these results makes me jealous. I cant even hit 5.2 all core with my SP97


What board you using?


----------



## Arni90

joneffingvo said:


> Seeing some of these results makes me jealous. I cant even hit 5.2 all core with my SP97


These chips are really temp-sensitive, what kind of cooling are you running?


----------



## roooo

drnilly007 said:


> Can you post your xmp stock Zen timings @4000, I have a gskill DR bdie but xmp 3200


Hi,
I'm on RKL - if you tell me how to access Zen timings, I'll post them.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> That is not what I’m saying, bench style settings that you run, for me this is 1080p. I only like to use Lower resolutions sometimes to create a more cpu bound scenario.


Even at 720 or 1080p it's same, in games - 5066 MHz is same or slower than 3866 MHz and it's only 16 GB.


----------



## xl_digit

@Groove2013 I have here Triden Z Neo 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 1.5 V 

we have the same RAM and Mainboard -> M13A.

so we could compare each other.


----------



## Groove2013

@xl_digit haven't bought the CPU and mobo, yet.
Will be 11900K and Apex 13.

Waiting for prices to eventually go down a little bit and for the CPUs to eventually be of slightly better quality in general.


----------



## xl_digit

@Groove2013 so go ahead 

actually in Germany i9-11900k drops under 600€








Intel Core i9-11900K, 8C/16T, 3.50-5.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler ab € 371,98 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals Deutschland


✔ Preisvergleich für Intel Core i9-11900K, 8C/16T, 3.50-5.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Kerne: 8 • Threads: 16 • Turbotakt: 5.30GHz (Thermal Velocity Boost), 5.20GHz (Turbo Boost Max 3.0), 5.30… ✔ Intel ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




geizhals.de





the Apex is about 450€








ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Apex ab € 353,50 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals Deutschland


✔ Preisvergleich für ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Apex ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Formfaktor: ATX • Sockel: Intel 1200 • Chipsatz: Intel Z590 • CPU-Kompatibilität: Core i-11000 , Core i-1… ✔ Intel Sockel 1200 ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




geizhals.de


----------



## Groove2013

Maybe in 2 weeks I will buy CPU and mobo.
Will go for 3866 MHz and 5.2 GHz.
Will delid for sure.


----------



## xl_digit

i allready delidded the 11900k  be carefull with those SMD´s


----------



## Groove2013

@xl_digit it's 200€ more than 5800X for same perf, once both fully tuned.
I'm only going with Intel again and paying 200€ more for higher power draw, just because I'm used to Intel and understand +- how it works.
But I still will have to learn new stuff, coming from 5th gen to 11th and from DDR3 to DDR4.

But at least I won't have all the additional voltages and also a lot of resistances as on Ryzen 5000.
And not only more stuff to set on AMD.
On AMD these voltages and especially resistances have to not be lower than, but also not higher than, in order to be stable.
Gives me headaches, considering the additional time it would take to find the right values and to understand it all.

On Intel, you can literally bump it almost all up and see if settings you use are stable or not and if yes, you then start to decrease voltage after voltage to find the minimum stable for the settings you have, which I find to be a more convenient/friendly way.


----------



## Groove2013

@xl_digit have you used the oven also, or just the delidding tool? And what's the temp difference?


----------



## xl_digit

no, i did'nt use the oven.
my 11900k sample could be delidded only using the delid die mate2.
but you realy need to act very carefull.


----------



## xl_digit

the Temp difference is about 10 degrees like der8auer messured in his Video


----------



## xl_digit

as you can see on the pictures, the Indium on my Die is broken and not melted like in the Video from der8auer.

melted Indium








broken Indium


----------



## eeroo94

--


----------



## Groove2013

I think I will melt it. How knows if the DIE can be damaged using only the tool.


----------



## xl_digit

delidding a CPU is always a risk, in case of the 11900k the risk is very high.
the normal procedure is breaking it, if it dosn't break melt it.
straight forward.


----------



## Groove2013

10°C is worth the effort, especially if you're on air and wanting to OC this beast.


----------



## Groove2013

I also won't remove the solder with a blade.
There is a much more safe way and better end result.

I think that cleaning the inner part of the IHS will leave it also very flat and without (deep) scratches, probably making it possible to gain few °C more.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @xl_digit have you used the oven also, or just the delidding tool? And what's the temp difference?


SR kit only odt wr effects, park, normal doesnt really do anything


----------



## Groove2013

@cstkl1 I think you quoted the wrong person )))


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @cstkl1 I think you quoted the wrong person )))











Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


@Groove2013 I have here Triden Z Neo 2x16 GB 3800 CL14 1.5 V we have the same RAM and Mainboard -> M13A. so we could compare each other.




www.overclock.net





i meant to reply to this bro.. on rkl odt

skews and tuning by @shamino1978 and testing by @safedisk .. is what matters..


----------



## morph.

In my anger of not being able to post at higher frequencies, I managed to tighten some timings further. Thanks to @cstkl1 for some help here but I seem to be hitting diminishing returns at this point... There's maybe 2 more timings I can drop by 1 or 2 that is twrrd_dg & trtp but I'll save that for another day.










I'm getting instability with ram/system (locks up) when my uncore ratio goes greater than x45..

Anyone know if there are any specific voltages or things I can do to improve the stability? CIO/SA? When raising my Uncore ratio past 45?


----------



## Groove2013

@morph. as far as I know, cache is vcore only.


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> In my anger of not being able to post at higher frequencies, I managed to tighten some timings further. Thanks to @cstkl1 for some help here but I seem to be hitting diminishing returns at this point... There's maybe 1 more timing I can drop by 1 or 2 that is twrrd_dg but I'll save that for another day.
> 
> View attachment 2511480
> 
> 
> I'm getting instability with ram/system (locks up) when my uncore ratio goes greater than x45..
> 
> Anyone know if there are any specific voltages or things I can do to improve the stability? CIO/SA? When raising my Uncore ratio past 45?


3866c14 not rock stable for me. it has few bugs.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> In my anger of not being able to post at higher frequencies, I managed to tighten some timings further. Thanks to @cstkl1 for some help here but I seem to be hitting diminishing returns at this point... There's maybe 2 more timings I can drop by 1 or 2 that is twrrd_dg & trtp but I'll save that for another day.
> 
> View attachment 2511480
> 
> 
> I'm getting instability with ram/system (locks up) when my uncore ratio goes greater than x45..
> 
> Anyone know if there are any specific voltages or things I can do to improve the stability? CIO/SA? When raising my Uncore ratio past 45?


Can try to adjust your sa. Your vcore is already high for the 45x ring.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> 3866c14 not rock stable for me. it has few bugs.


What's the SP of your chip?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> What's the SP of your chip?


88/89.. it fluxes between this


----------



## Groove2013

Question to our German friends.

If I buy 2x 11900K at Mindfactory, could there be a problem returning 1 of them?

Because I'm very afraid to spot a bad quality Rocket Lake.
It seems that Rocket Lake quality varies a lot.
And I don't want to pay 600€ for a mediocre quality CPU.
It already heats a lot, worse TIM than AMD, worse HT performance (vs. AMD SMT) and much higher power draw.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> Question to our German friends.
> 
> If I buy 2x 11900K at Mindfactory, could there be a problem returning 1 of them?
> 
> Because I'm very afraid to spot a bad quality Rocket Lake.
> It seems that Rocket Lake quality varies a lot.
> And I don't want to pay 600€ for a mediocre quality CPU.
> It already heats a lot, worse TIM than AMD, worse HT performance (vs. AMD SMT) and much higher power draw.


Buy two, then sell the bad one. Or directly order from silicon lottery.

That's the right way.


----------



## bscool

Just a quick $.02 Got another 11900k SP85 (batch x104L512 Vietnam) vs SP54/55. No real difference that I can tell in memory OC. I have not tested a lot with mem OC on the new CPU. Mainly DR trying to get 3866 working.

Still cannot even boot DR b die @3866. Been running 4533c17. Haven't messed with SR with the new CPU but I don't expect much change. Also no real difference in clocks on all core or cache. The SP 54 was running 52/46 all core 1.45 llc6 and stable Cinebench and gaming or all voltages settings auto. SP85 wont do 53 all core and crashes @47 cache same as SP54.


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> Just a quick $.02 Got another 11900k SP85 (batch x104L512 Vietnam) vs SP54/55. No real difference that I can tell in memory OC. I have not tested a lot with mem OC on the new CPU. Mainly DR trying to get 3866 working.
> 
> Still cannot even boot DR b die @3866. Been running 4533c17. Haven't messed with SR with the new CPU but I don't expect much change. Also no real difference in clocks on all core or cache. The SP 54 was running 52/46 all core 1.45 llc6 and stable Cinebench and gaming or all voltages settings auto. SP85 wont do 53 all core and crashes @47 cache same as SP54.


Glad I’m not the only one with the ram wall at 3866... However, I can't even get it to post at 4533 or 4400 in g2 and mines sp85 also once I get to x46 uncore it also becomes unstable and crashes.

I went for a core usage overclock which seems to be working pretty well.

up to 2 cores active at 5.4
up to 6 cores active at 5.3
7 cores or more active at 5.2










Question for those that have maximus boards do you leave Maximus Tweak mode on auto, 1 or 2?
@cstkl1 @OLDFATSHEEP


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> Just a quick $.02 Got another 11900k SP85 (batch x104L512 Vietnam) vs SP54/55. No real difference that I can tell in memory OC. I have not tested a lot with mem OC on the new CPU. Mainly DR trying to get 3866 working.
> 
> Still cannot even boot DR b die @3866. Been running 4533c17. Haven't messed with SR with the new CPU but I don't expect much change. Also no real difference in clocks on all core or cache. The SP 54 was running 52/46 all core 1.45 llc6 and stable Cinebench and gaming or all voltages settings auto. SP85 wont do 53 all core and crashes @47 cache same as SP54.


You probably need to keep your cpu below 85C to run 5.3GHz.

Besides, try to boot one DR stick with 4000 16-16 1.5V, others left auto, or SR bdie 4133 17-17 1.5V.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Glad I’m not the only one with the ram wall at 3866... However, I can't even get it to post at 4533 or 4400 in g2 and mines sp85 also once I get to x46 uncore it also becomes unstable and crashes.
> 
> I went for a core usage overclock which seems to be working pretty well.
> 
> up to 2 cores active at 5.4
> up to 6 cores active at 5.3
> 7 cores or more active at 5.2
> 
> View attachment 2511548
> 
> 
> Question for those that have maximum boards do you leave Maximus Tweak mode on auto, 1 or 2?
> @cstkl1 @OLDFATSHEEP


This is a really nice curve. Especially points 3.5 GHz and 5.1 GHz.

I just left the tweak mode to AUTO, and it worked for most of the cases. If you don't want auto, try mode 1 first. Only switch to mode 2 if mode 1 doesn't work.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> This is a really nice curve. Especially points 3.5 GHz and 5.1 GHz.
> 
> I just left the tweak mode to AUTO, and it worked for most of the cases. If you don't want auto, try mode 1 first. Only switch to mode 2 if mode 1 doesn't work.


Yeah haha maybe I can remove my +.025v on the 5.1 point, I haven't tried to really optimise voltages yet. My cpu won't see anything below 5.2 anyway as that's the lowest floor I've allowed.


----------



## Lownage

Don´t waste your time on buying DJR 5066 Kits. 
In games they perform worse than 3733-14-15-15-28


----------



## bigcid10

strix z590-E here 0909 bios
hac anyone else had and cold boot issues ?
sysyem boots fine ,no video at logon ,hit restart ,boots fine
cpu setting basically just Ai optimized,stock volts,etc
mem 3600 15 15 30 2 1.40v 
vccsa 1.376, vccio 1.07 
rtx3080 FE
Thank you


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> Question to our German friends.
> 
> If I buy 2x 11900K at Mindfactory, could there be a problem returning 1 of them?


Most likely they will ban you for that, they dont like returns with refund at all.


----------



## Groove2013

16 GB is starting to be like 8 GB several years ago.
So 32 GB is the way to go and thus 3733-3866 MHz are the only 1:1 frequencies to aim for.
Squeeze everything possible out of the timings and you're good.

Sure, FPS also scales not only with lower timings, but also with higher frequencies (bandwidth), but only if it's still 1:1, like on Comet Lake.
5066 MHz 1:2, as one can see, doesn't help vs. 3733/3866 MHz, in games.
+ you're limited to 16 GB only.


----------



## Groove2013

The best bins out of the box for 2x16 GB are:
4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.4V > 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5V > 4266 MHz 17-18-18-38 1.5V

Not accounting for usual quality discrepancies within same model(s) kit(s).


----------



## joneffingvo

drnilly007 said:


> What board you using?


Maximus XIII Hero (909 bios)


Arni90 said:


> These chips are really temp-sensitive, what kind of cooling are you running?


Corsair H150i Elite


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 0902*

1. Improve system performance

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0902.zip

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0902.zip

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0902.zip

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-GLACIAL-ASUS-0902.zip


----------



## Esenel

safedisk said:


> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 0902*
> 
> 1. Improve system performance


Core OC?
B Die SR? DR?
Gear1?2?

Thanks


----------



## bscool

Flashback is still not updating microcode. Used flashback bios 902 and still shows 3c so for those who want the microcode update use EZ flash


----------



## bigcid10

safedisk said:


> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 0902*
> 
> 1. Improve system performance
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO 0902 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-HERO-ASUS-0902.zip
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0902 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0902.zip
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME 0902 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-ASUS-0902.zip
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL 0902 BETA BIOS
> ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-EXTREME-GLACIAL-ASUS-0902.zip


Anything for strix z590-e ? 
Thank you


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Still having problems with CHA 💀


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Finally


----------



## bscool

@OLDFATSHEEP how much difference is there between your channel a and b? I just tried what you suggested the other day with 1 stick at a time of SR and ch a only boots 3733 and b will do 4000. I only tried SR b die for now.

That seems like a big difference. When I have compared slot on z390 or z490 in the past they were within 100-133 mhz between slots.

Edit and I still cant boot 3866 even with SR with 2 sticks. So does that mean it is the MB if channel b does can do 4000 and channel a 3733?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP how much difference is there between your channel a and b? I just tried what you suggested the other day with 1 stick at a time of SR and ch a only boots 3733 and b will do 4000. I only tried SR b die for now.
> 
> That seems like a big difference. When I have compared slot on z390 or z490 in the past they were within 100-133 mhz between slots.


CHA usually 1x (133 MHz) lower than CHB. So for me if single stick CHB 4133 is doable, then two sticks should be able to do 4000. Besides you need to bin your sticks, that put the good stick in CHA and bad one in CHB.


----------



## bscool

Just tried DR b die and CHA only boots 3600 and CHB 4000. z590 Apex that is a disappointment for the $$.

I suppose to really verify it is the MB I need to throw another CPU in or 10 gen in and see if it does the same.


----------



## menko2

Groove2013 said:


> The best bins out of the box for 2x16 GB are:
> 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.4V > 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5V > 4266 MHz 17-18-18-38 1.5V
> 
> Not accounting for usual quality discrepancies within same model(s) kit(s).


So the best is the 4000mhz or the 4266mhz kit?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> Just tried DR b die and CHA only boots 3600 and CHB 4000. z590 Apex that is a disappointment for the $$.
> 
> I suppose to really verify it is the MB I need to throw another CPU in or 10 gen in and see if it does the same.


Have you tried 4133?

Single DR B 4000 should mean you can do dual channel 3866.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> So the best is the 4000mhz or the 4266mhz kit?


4400C17D








G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## bscool

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Have you tried 4133?
> 
> Single DR B 4000 should mean you can do dual channel 3866.


Yeah 4000 is the highest it will boot gear 1 with DR or SR in CHB. With both sticks in 3733 is the highest it will boot with DR or SR. Switching sticks in slots didn't make a difference.

I think there is something wrong with this MB. With the same CPU and mem on z490 Apex I could run DR b [email protected] 4266c15-15-15 or 4266c16-16-16 in gear 2 and this z590 Apex will not run either of those using all the same components except changing MB.

Also I could run 5000+ with SR b die using 11900k in z490 Apex and this z590 wont boot over 4800 on SR.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> Yeah 4000 is the highest it will boot gear 1 with DR or SR in CHB. With both sticks in 3733 is the highest it will boot with DR or SR. Switching sticks in slots didn't make a difference.
> 
> I think there is something wrong with this MB. With the same CPU and mem on z490 Apex I could run DR b [email protected] 4266c15-15-15 or 4266c16-16-16 in gear 2 and this z590 Apex will not run either of those using all the same components except changing MB.
> 
> Also I could run 5000+ with SR b die using 11900k in z490 Apex and this z590 wont boot over 4800 on SR.


Maybe you should get a new mobo if you have already tried fixed ODT and IO/SA. I have tried two M13As. All of those can do much better mem oc than M12A.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Finally
> View attachment 2511696


Thanks to the new BIOS?

Or you have upped some voltages and/or timings?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> Thanks to the new BIOS?
> 
> Or you have upped some voltages and/or timings?


Probably proper IO/SA. Too high or too low, it won't boot.


----------



## roooo

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nvr had problems running DR 3866 on M13A. I have tried several chips with SPs 78,80,95
> 
> Currently running DR 3866 15-15-30 1.45V, IO1=1.1V, MCIO=1.2V, SA=1.4V.
> View attachment 2490070
> 
> 
> 11th gen has a large deviation in the IMC quality. If that is an SP55 chip I would just sell it. No chance for a good IMC to be on that terrible silicon.


I'm still having problems getting this kit stable with such timings. Would you mind sharing your full BIOS mem settings?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

roooo said:


> I'm still having problems getting this kit stable with such timings. Would you mind sharing your full BIOS mem settings?


Try this. You may need change vcore and vsa according to your chip conditions.




__





3866C15.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Probably proper IO/SA. Too high or too low, it won't boot.


One important question.

Playing at 4k, do you think the [email protected] with a 2x16GB b-die tunned will bottleneck the GPUs for next year? PCIe4 right now is no use for RTX 3090.


----------



## Groove2013

menko2 said:


> One important question.
> 
> Playing at 4k, do you think the [email protected] with a 2x16GB b-die tunned will bottleneck the GPUs for next year? PCIe4 right now is no use for RTX 3090.


Nobody will be able to tell you this.
We don't know how powerful next gen GPUs will be and it depends on game per game basis and selected video settings.

10900K might be better in multi-threaded games and 11900K in single-threaded games.
But that's well known even now.


----------



## menko2

Groove2013 said:


> Nobody will be able to tell you this.
> We don't know how powerful next gen GPUs will be and it depends on game per game basis and selected video settings.


Right now PCIe3 is close to it's limits with the RTX 3090. I think next GPU gen will be too much for PCIe3.

But will the 11900k cope for 4k resolution with the new GPUs? 

I know we can only guess but the experts can have ideas about it (so i won't have to change the whole mobo-system).


----------



## Groove2013

A game I play even in few years will benefit more from 11900K than from 10900K, because it's not threads intensive, but bottlenecks even a 5.2 GHz, on single thread, even in 4K.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone in the US has an extra m12a? I want to buy 1.


----------



## Groove2013

menko2 said:


> Right now PCIe3 is close to it's limits with the RTX 3090. I think next GPU gen will be too much for PCIe3.
> 
> But will the 11900k cope for 4k resolution with the new GPUs?
> 
> I know we can only guess but the experts can have ideas about it (so i won't have to change the whole mobo-system).


I think you still don't understand.
One can't simply generalise, because it depends on the game you (will) play.

If it's Fortnite, Valorant, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Arma, Escape from Tarkov, additional cores/threads (10/20) don't help, but IPC does.

If it's Battlefield or Call of Duty, additional cores/threads (10/20) might help a lot, even with lower IPC.


----------



## menko2

Groove2013 said:


> I think you still don't understand.
> One can't simply generalise, because it depends on the game you (will) play.


Sorry man, i think I didn't make the question properly. 

At 4k most of games and for example Valhalla are very GPU bound so 10900k or 11900k won't matter much because the 3090 don't saturate the PCIe3 lines even at 4k.

If let's say RTX 4090 release in the future, the CPU power won't matter much still in Valhalla but the fact that 11900k can use PCIe4 will help (i guess) because the increase from 3090 to 4090 should be too big for PCIe3?


----------



## Groove2013

Threads number and performance per thread matter more than PCI-E.
Next gen GPUs might be 30-40% more powerful.


----------



## Groove2013

@menko2 since you already have a 10900K, moving to a 11900K would be rather a sidegrade than upgrade.

Walhalla, Battlefield *6*, GTA *6*, feature Call of Duty etc (will) use yhreads even more, so already having 20 of them is better than "only" 16 11900K.
+ who knows, maybe you will buy a 11900K and it will be only SP 55-73 and not 93, so not only less threads, but also worse OC.

With 10900K you lose slightly because of PCI-E 3.0, but with 11900K you lose slightly because of "only" 16 threads in newer better multithreaded games.

My suggestion is to buy 2x16 GB 4400 17-18-18-38 RAM (Newegg G.Skill Royal 4400 CL17) to compensate for slightly lower perf per thread of 10900K and still have 20 SP93 threads.

PCI-E 3.0 shouldn't saturate much.

Better RAM would cost you much less than a 11900K and at least guaranteed bring some additional performance, while 11900K will cost much more than better RAM and not sure that it will bring you something.

In Valhalla, 10900K is slightly better than 11900K, with same frequency, RAM and GPU, even while being in GPU limit.


----------



## Groove2013

Games I play won't saturate 16 threads of 11900K in years to come, but they need better per thread performance of 11900K, so 11900K it is for me. And I'm going to upgrade not from a 10900K, but from a 5775C.

I hope that Apex 13 will let me do 3866 or even 4000 MHz on RAM.


----------



## Groove2013

The problem of 11900K is that while having improved performance per thread, it has fewer threads.
If it would also have had 20 threads, in addition to improved performance per thread, there would have been no hesitations.


----------



## menko2

Groove2013 said:


> @menko2 since you already have a 10900K, moving to a 11900K would be rather a sidegrade than upgrade.
> 
> Walhalla, Battlefield *6*, GTA *6*, feature Call of Duty etc (will) use yhreads even more, so already having 20 of them is better than "only" 16 11900K.
> + who knows, maybe you will buy a 11900K and it will be only SP 55-73 and not 93, so not only less threads, but also worse OC.
> 
> With 10900K you lose slightly because of PCI-E 3.0, but with 11900K you lose slightly because of "only" 16 threads in newer better multithreaded games.
> 
> My suggestion is to buy 2x16 GB 4400 17-18-18-38 RAM (Newegg G.Skill Royal 4400 CL17) to compensate for slightly lower perf per thread of 10900K and still have 20 SP93 threads.
> 
> PCI-E 3.0 shouldn't saturate much.
> 
> Better RAM would cost you much less than a 11900K and at least guaranteed bring some additional performance, while 11900K will cost much more than better RAM and not sure that it will bring you something.
> 
> In Valhalla, 10900K is slightly better than 11900K, with same frequency, RAM and GPU, even while being in GPU limit.


My question relies more of the bandwidth limit of the PCIe3 for the future next gen GPU.

They should saturate the PCIe3 from 10900k so CPU threads won't matter much playing at 4k. That's where 11900k should have advantage no matter the threads as it's PCIe4 no?


----------



## Groove2013

Even with much slower PCI-E 4.0 GPUs, like RX 5700 XT or RTX 2080, there is already a slight FPS difference.
But it's so small, that you can only measure it, but can't notice it.
With RTX 4000 this difference will be higher, of course.
But nobody knows how much higher.

Faster RAM let's the CPU and GPU better show what they're capable of.

Faster RAM bottlenecks CPU and GPU less.

With faster RAM, it's not only the CPU memory controller that's stressed/loaded more, but data for the CPU is also prepared faster, thus the CPU spends less time doing nothing and is fed with more data or is fed with data faster, which in turn makes the GPU also idle less, waiting for data from the CPU.

So with faster RAM, the CPU itself is also better loaded/used in %, transmitting more data or transmitting data faster to the GPU, which then also waits/idles less and thus is also better loaded/used.


----------



## Groove2013

3600 MHz RAM and higher, has a bandwidth that doesn't bottleneck any game.

So when RAM bandwidth isn't limiting anything, it's RAM responsiveness that needs to be improved as much as possible (ns in Aida64).


----------



## PhoenixMDA

menko2 said:


> My question relies more of the bandwidth limit of the PCIe3 for the future next gen GPU.
> 
> They should saturate the PCIe3 from 10900k so CPU threads won't matter much playing at 4k. That's where 11900k should have advantage no matter the threads as it's PCIe4 no?


At this Moment the PCI-E 3.0 16x bus interface is most time loaded arround 10% at gaming.


----------



## menko2

PhoenixMDA said:


> At this Moment the PCI-E 3.0 16x bus interface is most time loaded arround 10%.


Wow. I thought it was almost saturated with a RTX 3090 playing at 4k.


----------



## Kana Chan

menko2 said:


> So the best is the 4000mhz or the 4266mhz kit?





OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 4400C17D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com











G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com




The non led version (ripjaws) of the 32GB 4400C17 is 50 dollars less


----------



## PhoenixMDA

menko2 said:


> Wow. I thought it was almost saturated with a RTX 3090 playing at 4k.


You can look with GPU-Z during playing games, it´s not much bandwith in "action".


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

menko2 said:


> One important question.
> 
> Playing at 4k, do you think the [email protected] with a 2x16GB b-die tunned will bottleneck the GPUs for next year? PCIe4 right now is no use for RTX 3090.


Hard to say. Maybe somebody will make such a game, that uses the CPU like R23


----------



## Groove2013

Kana Chan said:


> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GVK with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The non led version (ripjaws) of the 32GB 4400C17 is 50 dollars less


Ripjaws V have 2 PCB layers less than Trident Z and heat up more.


----------



## menko2

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Hard to say. Maybe somebody will make such a game, that uses the CPU like R23


That's what I mean. 

At 4k the GPU will be more important than the 10900k or the 11900k. But the 11900k being PCIe4 capable in the future will benefit more from next gen GPUs.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> Ripjaws V have 2 PCB layers less than Trident Z and heat up more.


How do you know they are 2 less? I have quite a few kits of Royal, RPJ, NEO, Team and they are all 10 layer. From 3200c14, 3600c14, 4000c16, 4266c17 etc all within the last year or so. 4400c17 kit should be here today.

Unless I am misinformed the 10 on the pcb means 10 layer?

Also here is a screen shot of an old 3200c14 kit of ripjaw from 2017 and they are 10 layer according to TPB.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> How do you know they are 2 less? I have quite a few kits of Royal, RPJ, NEO, Team and they are all 10 layer. From 3200c14, 3600c14, 4000c16, 4266c17 etc all within the last year or so. 4400c17 kit should be here today.
> 
> Unless I am misinformed the 10 on the pcb means 10 layer?
> 
> Also here is a screen shot of an old 3200c14 kit of ripjaw from 2017 and they are 10 layer according to TPB.


I 100% remember there were 8 layers PCB Ripjaws V 3200 CL14 at some point.
I even found some Trident Z 3200 CL14 also with only 8 layers PCB.
Check the left bottom corner of the Thaiphoon Burner screen.


----------



## bscool

Looks like it must be random. I just got the 4400c17 and no 10 on the pcb. I have a 4000c15 RPJ and they are 10 layer.


----------



## Groove2013

10 layers PCBs help slightly with signal quality, lower timings/voltages.


----------



## Kana Chan

There's a site selling these 1.55v kits: price/7.78=USD
F4-4000C14D-32GTZR
F4-4000C14D-32GTZN
F4-4000C14D-32GTRS
F4-4000C14D-32GTRG
F4-4000C14D-32GVK


----------



## Groove2013

...


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> 10 layers PCBs help slightly with signal quality, lower timings/voltages.


I just threw a cheap dial caliper on various stick of RPJ, Royal, Neo and they are all the same thickness from what I can measure. Also from what I know @emissary42 is one of the more knowledgably people on memory. And this is what he says PCB layers.









[Übersicht] - Die ultimative HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gb B-Die Liste - alle Hersteller (24.10.22)


Die ultimative HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gbit B-Die Liste Inhaltsverzeichnis / Table of Contents » 8GB Module & 2x8GB/4x8GB/8x8GB Kits (SS, SR) » 16GB Module & 2x16GB/4x16GB/8x16GB Kits (DS, DR) » 32GB Module & 2x32GB Kits (DC DIMM) » SO-DIMM 8GB/16GB Varianten (SR/DR) » Häufig gestellte Fragen...




www.hardwareluxx.de





"What is read does not matter, as a standard RAW card is almost always used as the basis for programming and this value is never adjusted. If you want, you can specify in the SPD database how many PCB layers or which type of PCB is used. However, this option was hardly used with the DDR4 models.

Most kits are independently produced with a 10 layer PCB, at least from the "big" manufacturers. Even if you don't advertise it explicitly like G.SKILL with the Trident RGB / Neo / Royal or Corsair with the Dominator Platinum / RGB. Some time ago I checked photos of my old Ripjaws V and Trident Z from 2016/2017 for the Ryzen RAM OC thread and Discord Sever and even these already all had a 10 layer PCB, verified by the corresponding marking on the PCB itself."

I think the "10 layer PCB is more marketing like "gamer" and people pay more for it. I am not trying to be argumentative just inform people so they don't pay more for "Royal" thinking it will buy them higher clocks or more stable mem. Having used a couple dozen + kits of Royal, RPJ, Team etc I haven't seen any correlation to Royals or ones marketed with 10 PCB to be any better. It still comes down to silicon lotto.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> I just threw a cheap dial caliper on various stick of RPJ, Royal, Neo and they are all the same thickness from what I can measure. Also from what I know @emissary42 is one of the more knowledgably people on memory. And this is what he says PCB layers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Übersicht] - Die ultimative HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gb B-Die Liste - alle Hersteller (24.10.22)
> 
> 
> Die ultimative HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gbit B-Die Liste Inhaltsverzeichnis / Table of Contents » 8GB Module & 2x8GB/4x8GB/8x8GB Kits (SS, SR) » 16GB Module & 2x16GB/4x16GB/8x16GB Kits (DS, DR) » 32GB Module & 2x32GB Kits (DC DIMM) » SO-DIMM 8GB/16GB Varianten (SR/DR) » Häufig gestellte Fragen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hardwareluxx.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "What is read does not matter, as a standard RAW card is almost always used as the basis for programming and this value is never adjusted. If you want, you can specify in the SPD database how many PCB layers or which type of PCB is used. However, this option was hardly used with the DDR4 models.
> 
> Most kits are independently produced with a 10 layer PCB, at least from the "big" manufacturers. Even if you don't advertise it explicitly like G.SKILL with the Trident RGB / Neo / Royal or Corsair with the Dominator Platinum / RGB. Some time ago I checked photos of my old Ripjaws V and Trident Z from 2016/2017 for the Ryzen RAM OC thread and Discord Sever and even these already all had a 10 layer PCB, verified by the corresponding marking on the PCB itself."
> 
> I think the "10 layer PCB is more marketing like "gamer" and people pay more for it. I am not trying to be argumentative just inform people so they don't pay more for "Royal" thinking it will buy them higher clocks or more stable mem. Having used a couple dozen + kits of Royal, RPJ, Team etc I haven't seen any correlation to Royals or ones marketed with 10 PCB to be any better. It still comes down to silicon lotto.


Probably same as 6 layers Asus Apex Z590 vs. 10 layers EVGA Dark Z590 vs. 12 layers ASRock OC Formula Z590...


----------



## IronAge

Srsly, whats that about the 4000C14 Kits, a mistake ?


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> Srsly, whats that about the 4000C14 Kits, a mistake ?


Colorful iGame 4000 14-14-14-35 B-DIE white PCB no heatspreaders


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> Colorful iGame 4000 14-14-14-35


4000C14 Dual Rank ? these won't be inexpensive.


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> 4000C14 Dual Rank ? these won't be inexpensive.


Don't know.


----------



## IronAge

4000C14D-32xxx would be Dual Rank from G.Skill,


----------



## bscool

They really know how to get people like me to waste more money on memory for Comedy Lake with these crazy new kits. I am done though. No more ddr4 for me.


----------



## Groove2013

...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

IronAge said:


> Srsly, whats that about the 4000C14 Kits, a mistake ?


Nope








F4-4000C14D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C14D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


For some reason couldn't find them when googling...


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> For some reason couldn't find them when googling...


you live in a different google bubble.

@OLDFATSHEEP

thanks for googling it for us


----------



## Groove2013

It's slightly more than 500$ for Ripjaws V, almost 550$ for RGB/Neo and almost 600$ for Royal.
No way I'm paying so much for RAM.
Even almost 400€ is on the limit.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Groove2013 said:


> It's slightly more than 500$ for Ripjaws V, almost 550$ for RGB/Neo and almost 600$ for Royal.
> No way I'm paying so much for RAM.
> Even almost 400€ is on the limit.











Crucial Ballistix MAX 5100 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL19 BLM2K8G51C19U4B (Black) : Amazon.com.au


Crucial Ballistix MAX 5100 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL19 BLM2K8G51C19U4B (Black) : Amazon.com.au



www.amazon.com.au






i think it usually goes for 900 but lol just the same


----------



## Groove2013

CallMeODZ said:


> Crucial Ballistix MAX 5100 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL19 BLM2K8G51C19U4B (Black) : Amazon.com.au
> 
> 
> Crucial Ballistix MAX 5100 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL19 BLM2K8G51C19U4B (Black) : Amazon.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think it usually goes for 900 but lol just the same


900 for only 16 GB 🤦‍♂️


----------



## IronAge

Can't beat Kingston HyperX Predator with Hynix DJR when it comes to DDR4 insanity.









Amazon.com: HyperX Predator HX451C20PB3K2/16 Memory Module 5133MHz DDR4 CL20 DIMM XMP 16GB Kit (2x8GB) Black : Office Products


Amazon.com: HyperX Predator HX451C20PB3K2/16 Memory Module 5133MHz DDR4 CL20 DIMM XMP 16GB Kit (2x8GB) Black : Office Products



www.amazon.com


----------



## Groove2013

16 GB nowadays is already almost like stone age...


----------



## Groove2013

Such high GB/s bandwidth is not unnecessary for some types of applications, but such applications would rather need 32 or 64 GB of it, which is not possible.
So this vastly improved bandwidth gets annihilated by it being only 16 GB = pointless.


----------



## morph.

menko2 said:


> Sorry man, i think I didn't make the question properly.
> 
> At 4k most of games and for example Valhalla are very GPU bound so 10900k or 11900k won't matter much because the 3090 don't saturate the PCIe3 lines even at 4k.
> 
> If let's say RTX 4090 release in the future, the CPU power won't matter much still in Valhalla but the fact that 11900k can use PCIe4 will help (i guess) because the increase from 3090 to 4090 should be too big for PCIe3?


mate you are long way away from being CPU bound at 4k with triple A titles as a generalisation.

2k (1440p) needs to be cpu bound bottleneck first. Which perhaps the 4090 will do but with raytracing on probably not


----------



## Groove2013

From best to worst bins of best 2x16 B-DIEs, considering stock voltage:
4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V > 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5V/4000 16-16-16-36 1.4V > 4400 17-18-18-38 1.5V > 4266 17-18-18-38 1.5V


----------



## Groove2013

Will wait before buying 11900K closer to (the end of) fall, for slightly improved quality, lower price and non-beta BIOS(es) from Asus.

Feels too expensive right now, with a lot of bad quality samples and mobos not being able to properly support good RAM and all of this for 200€ more vs. same perf and lower consumption 5800X + more expensive Z590 mobos, with unfinished BIOSes vs. AMD B550.


----------



## bluebaron

@safedisk @shamino1978

Why doesn't command rate 1T work right on the Z590 Apex? Tested BIOS versions 0707, 0801, and 0901, and it's broken in all of them. I realize this is an 11th gen thread and I'm running a 10900k, but I figured since I've got an Asus Z590 board I ought to post it here. My RAM is a 2x8GB Samsung B-die kit from Gskill.

Command Rate 1T:










Command Rate 2T:










What gives?


----------



## YaqY

bluebaron said:


> @safedisk @shamino1978
> 
> Why doesn't command rate 1T work right on the Z590 Apex? Tested BIOS versions 0707, 0801, and 0901, and it's broken in all of them. I realize this is an 11th gen thread and I'm running a 10900k, but I figured since I've got an Asus Z590 board I ought to post it here. My RAM is a 2x8GB Samsung B-die kit from Gskill.
> 
> Command Rate 1T:
> 
> View attachment 2511776
> 
> 
> Command Rate 2T:
> 
> View attachment 2511777
> 
> 
> What gives?


check subtimings and send a pic (looks like a DG timing might be at 8)


----------



## sniperpowa

I got my 11900k yesterday it’s a sp90 chip ive had okay success but it’s a pain to learn this platform especially coming from tweaking 10900k’s. Is it normal it auto sets my dual rank to 1t? Ive gotten to 4533 cl16 2t and mode 1 3866 14-14-14-28 2t about the same performance atleast in 3dmark. Is mode 1 better or mode 2 higher frequency?


----------



## bscool

@sniperpowa what MB do you have. Yes that is normal setting 1t in gear 2. You are doing better than most if you can get those timings stable in gear 1 and gear 2. I don't think I have seen anyone do 4533c16 with DR b die. Edit I see you used 2t to do 4533c16.


----------



## bluebaron

@safedisk @shamino1978 @YaqY There was a DG timing autoed to 8, but changing it made no difference. The following screenshots have all secondary and tertiary timings at auto; only thing I changed was the primary timings. Still not working right. This occurs at all memory frequencies I've tested as well, not just DDR4-4266. This may just be a problem with Comet Lake on Z590 though. I only have a 10900k to test right now.

Command Rate 1T:










Command Rate 2T:


----------



## sniperpowa

bscool said:


> @sniperpowa what MB do you have. Yes that is normal setting 1t in gear 2. You are doing better than most if you can get those timings stable in gear 1 and gear 2. I don't think I have seen anyone do 4533c16 with DR b die. Edit I see you used 2t to do 4533c16.


I’m using the m13 apex I can only do 4266 with 1t.I scored 31 930 in Time Spy


----------



## bscool

@bluebaron Auto will set some timings incorrectly/loose You can use Asrock Timing Config ver 4.0.9 to post timings if you want help setting them ASRock Z590 OC Formula


----------



## YaqY

bluebaron said:


> @safedisk @shamino1978 @YaqY There was a DG timing autoed to 8, but changing it made no difference. The following screenshots have all secondary and tertiary timings at auto; only thing I changed was the primary timings. Still not working right. This occurs at all memory frequencies I've tested as well, not just DDR4-4266. This may just be a problem with Comet Lake on Z590 though. I only have a 10900k to test right now.
> 
> Command Rate 1T:
> 
> View attachment 2511779
> 
> 
> Command Rate 2T:
> 
> View attachment 2511781


This is probably mode 2 training if loose terts. Try set twrwr_dg and trdrd_dg make sure those are both at 4, other than that it is up to you to tighten other tertiaries which is likely the issue here.


----------



## encrypted11

I think the availability of golden samples are better on early launch with Intel.

I’ve gotten a 1.376V 5.3GHz, 5.2GHz 1.312V socket sense 8700k.It was the best of 5 units. Later on, die harvesting for 8086K and Xeon E started and silicon lotto was worse on later batches. Won a rookie hwbot competition with that chip on approx 240 rad worth of water cooling capacity. Benching GB with low 1.4Vs at 5.5GHz, superpi at 5.6GHz similar volts.

The same applied for 9900K/ 9900KS, Xeon Es when Intel started harvesting for a better bin. Usually when Intel starts harvesting dies for products on different markets aside from desktop S/H platform good chips, the top desktop K product scores worse in lotto.


Groove2013 said:


> Will wait before buying 11900K closer to (the end of) fall, for slightly improved quality, lower price and non-beta BIOS(es) from Asus.
> 
> Feels too expensive right now, with a lot of bad quality samples and mobos not being able to properly support good RAM and all of this for 200€ more vs. same perf and lower consumption 5800X + more expensive Z590 mobos, with unfinished BIOSes vs. AMD B550.


----------



## menko2

morph. said:


> mate you are long way away from being CPU bound at 4k with triple A titles as a generalisation.
> 
> 2k (1440p) needs to be cpu bound bottleneck first. Which perhaps the 4090 will do but with raytracing on probably not


I mean that we wont be cpu bound in quite some time with either 10900k or 11900k. But with next gen GPUs (RTX 4090) we will provably bound by the pcie3.0 bandwith from 10900k. 

The 11900k then will be ok with its pcie4.0 lines..


----------



## Waspinator

menko2 said:


> I mean that we wont be cpu bound in quite some time with either 10900k or 11900k. But with next gen GPUs (RTX 4090) we will provably bound by the pcie3.0 bandwith from 10900k.
> 
> The 11900k then will be ok with its pcie4.0 lines..


I don't think PCIe is such a bottleneck. You never needed the current gen, last gen was sufficient so far. I had problems with MSI Gaming Carbon Z590, BIOS V1.00 which comes with the board, limits to PCIe 1.1 x16, same with V1.10.
On RTX 3070 I lost on 4400 CL17 and 3600 CL14 (same FPS for both):
SotTR: from 116 to 103 FPS
AC Valhalla: from 74 to 69 FPS

And that is only theoretical 4 GB/s, practical 3.33 GB/s. So I think PCIe 3.0 16 GB/s should be enough for some time.
You can select PCIe gen in BIOS and you can test yourself. I think PCIe 2.0 is still good today, if for 3070, then also for 3090. So for RTX 4090 PCIe 3.0 should suffice.
I will also test Gen2 later today, I think 8 GB/s should be enough for 3070.


----------



## Seth2021

Hi
Just upgraded from 8700k ( delid) at 5.2ghz / Asus Formula X to 11900k. I would appreciate if someone could send me any Bios guide for manual overclocking ( lets say to 5.1ghz) with stable vcore. New Z590 bios has so many parameters and looks like overclocking method is changed since 10th gen + Z370 period.
The main purpose for overclocking is : Microsoft Flight Simulator.
my main question is : Should i use the default Adaptive boost enabled with multicore enhancement ( enabled/removed all limits) or Sync all cores with stable v-core ( no offsets & avx) overclocking for better performance.
I checked also AI optimized but i had some aggressive high spikes of 1.5 v-core which i guess its not good for daily use.

My pc rig:
* i9-11900K • ASUS ROG-STRIX 3090 OC • Asus ROG-Maximus Hero XIII • G.Skill Ripjaws V 64GB DDR4 3600 CL16 • Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro AiO • Asus ROG Swift PG279Q 27" Gaming Monitor 
SP:85*

thanks
Seth


----------



## Bilco

Groove2013 said:


> From best to worst bins of best 2x16 B-DIEs, considering stock voltage:
> 4000 14-15-15-35 1.55V > 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5V/4000 16-16-16-36 1.4V > 4400 17-18-18-38 1.5V > 4266 17-18-18-38 1.5V


So tighter timings are harder to achieve here is what I am getting?


----------



## Waspinator

This is my take on it:
4000 16-16-16 1.40V = 4000 14-15-15 1.55V = 4400 17-18-18 1.50V > 4266 17-18-18 1.50V = 3800 14-16-16 1.50V = 3600 14-15-15 1.45V > 4000 16-19-19 1.40V > 3600 16-16-16 1.35V = 3200 14-14-14 1.35V

Why would 4400 17-18-18 1.50V be worse than 3800 14-16-16 1.50V? It's harder to run. This is what my 3600 14-15-15 1.45V needs:
3800 14-16-16-36 1.43V
4266 17-18-18-38 1.45V
4400 17-18-18-38 1.47V, that means G.Skill 1.50V could be 0.1-0.2V better, or not, there are kits that have only 0.3V headroom
4000 16-16-16-34 1.42V
4000 14-15-15-35 - not stable up to 1.55V

So last 2 are for sure best bins if 3600 14-15-15 can't run them. But far most safe kit to get is 4000 16-16-16 1.40V. It should need at most 1.37V for that, so that means it is 0.05V better than most other kits.
Also I think it's hard to rank different kits, some may be better for highest frequency regardless of CL, some better for highest CL14 OC. You would need at least 2 kits of each and voltages for at least 10 different settings.


----------



## menko2

Waspinator said:


> This is my take on it:
> 4000 16-16-16 1.40V = 4000 14-15-15 1.55V = 4400 17-18-18 1.50V > 4266 17-18-18 1.50V = 3800 14-16-16 1.50V = 3600 14-15-15 1.45V > 4000 16-19-19 1.40V > 3600 16-16-16 1.35V = 3200 14-14-14 1.35V
> 
> Why would 4400 17-18-18 1.50V be worse than 3800 14-16-16 1.50V? It's harder to run. This is what my 3600 14-15-15 1.45V needs:
> 3800 14-16-16-36 1.43V
> 4266 17-18-18-38 1.45V
> 4400 17-18-18-38 1.47V, that means G.Skill 1.50V could be 0.1-0.2V better, or not, there are kits that have only 0.3V headroom
> 4000 16-16-16-34 1.42V
> 4000 14-15-15-35 - not stable up to 1.55V
> 
> So last 2 are for sure best bins if 3600 14-15-15 can't run them. But far most safe kit to get is 4000 16-16-16 1.40V. It should need at most 1.37V for that, so that means it is 0.05V better than most other kits.
> Also I think it's hard to rank different kits, some may be better for highest frequency regardless of CL, some better for highest CL14 OC. You would need at least 2 kits of each and voltages for at least 10 different settings.


Is there a big difference binning between the g.skill kit 2x16GB?

4000mhz [email protected] 
4000mhz [email protected]


I can find much cheaper the second I mention here in Spain. Don't know if the difference is that big.


----------



## bscool

menko2 said:


> Is there a big difference binning between the g.skill kit 2x16GB?
> 
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> 
> I can find much cheaper the second I mention here in Spain. Don't know if the difference is that big.


You are WAY over thinking this. I have had almost every "top" binned kit from the last year or so of 2x16 and they are all so close it doesn't matter. I just buy them to play. It really does not matter. I just got the 4400c17 kit yesterday and it clocks the same as all the other I have. The differences are so small it doesn't matter.

It will make no difference in actual use if you clocks say 4400-16-16-16- vs 4400c16-17-17. You epeen will be bigger or smaller though 

I cannot imagine how much thought you put into larger matter in life if you question which kit of ram for weeks or months


----------



## Bilco

bscool said:


> You are WAY over thinking this. I have had almost every "top" binned kit from the last year or so of 2x16 and they are all so close it doesn't matter. I just buy them to play. It really does not matter. I just got the 4400c17 kit yesterday and it clocks the same as all the other I have. The differences are so small it doesn't matter.
> 
> It will make no difference in actual use if you clocks say 4400-16-16-16- vs 4400c16-17-17. You epeen will be bigger or smaller though
> 
> I cannot imagine how much thought you put into larger matter in life if you question which kit of ram for weeks or months


Nothing wrong with being thorough with your research when it comes to your hard earned money. Not all have had the luxury in life of spending hundreds of dollars on different types of ram and the time required to go along with testing them so they come here seeking the advice of others. Some of the pricing that these companies assign to the different models is confusing too and misleading in terms of quality differences.


----------



## Groove2013

menko2 said:


> Is there a big difference binning between the g.skill kit 2x16GB?
> 
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> 
> I can find much cheaper the second I mention here in Spain. Don't know if the difference is that big.


Why must it be sold exactly in Spain?
You can buy it in any european shop.
It doesn't matter at all - it's Internet.


----------



## menko2

Groove2013 said:


> Why must it be sold exactly in Spain?
> You can buy it in any european shop.
> It doesn't matter at all - it's Internet.


I can get that 4000mhz [email protected] kit in amazon Spain. If something goes wrong or it's a bad binned kit is really easy to return with no charges.


----------



## bscool

Bad binned? So if it doesn't overclock to what you think it should you will return it? Hmmm lol karma


----------



## bscool

If you want a good binned kit buy one on HWbot. They sell for similar prices to what you will pay retail and sometimes less. HWBOT Marketplace

You can also post a wanted add. 

At least then you know someone tested it and it does say 4400c16 or 4700c17 etc. But that doesn't mean it will one your MB and CPU as they may be the weak link. Dang no guarantees in life


----------



## CallMeODZ

menko2 said:


> I can get that 4000mhz [email protected] kit in amazon Spain. If something goes wrong or it's a bad binned kit is really easy to return with no charges.


"whats wrong with the product?"
"I cant run this ram out of spec for really good results"
"oh ok send it right back and we will give you another kit to **** on"


----------



## owikh84

Anyone still benching 4x8GB DIMMs? 🤣 
Here's my random B-die SR kits of F4-4266C19D-16GTZR on Maximus XIII EXTREME Z590...




Spoiler







*4x8GB 4266 17-17-17-37-1T @ 1.50v* with 11900K RKL (ES SP76)


*4x8GB 4200 17-17-17-37-2T @ 1.50v* with 10900K CML (Retail SP94)


----------



## roooo

bscool said:


> I cannot imagine how much thought you put into larger matter in life if you question which kit of ram for weeks or months


I guess if we did not do this to a certain (more or less healthy) extent, most of us wouldn't spend that much time reading and posting on these pages either, would we?! ;-)


----------



## Waspinator

menko2 said:


> Is there a big difference binning between the g.skill kit 2x16GB?
> 
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 4000mhz [email protected]
> 
> 
> I can find much cheaper the second I mention here in Spain. Don't know if the difference is that big.


That is a very good question. My 3600 14-15-15 need:
4000 16-19-19-39 - 1.42V
4000 20-16-16-40 - 1.35V

That means tRCD and tRP 16 are not really hard to run for B-Die. So hard to tell how these kits really differ, they should both do 4000 16-16-16 with 1.37V or less.
My thinking why they even went with 16-19-19 in first place which is usually more of a Hynix thing, 3600 Hynix has same timings, they wanted compatibility also with AMD which has trouble with same tRCDRD as tCL, and G.Skill never does XMP something like 16-19-16-39. Looking at QVL that is somewhat true, but only boards in QVL list are MSI's top X570 boards and only for Ryzen 5000.
EDIT:
They were actually made more than a month before Ryzen 5000, for Intel 10th gen, so I have no idea why they went with 4000 16-19-19:








G.SKILL Releases New Low-Latency DDR4-4000 CL16 and DDR4-4400 CL16 Memory Kits - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


24 September 2020 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is releasing new high-performance, low-latency memory kits at DDR4-4000 CL16 32GB 16GBx2 and DDR4-4400 CL16 16GB 8GBx2, and available across the...




www.gskill.com












G.SKILL Updates Trident Z Neo DDR4 Specs Up To DDR4-4000 CL16 16GBx2 for AMD Ryzen 5000 CPUs - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


5 November 2020 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is announcing new DDR4 memory specifications under the Trident Z Neo series, optimized for the new AMD Ryzen 5000 processors. Featuring ultra-high...




www.gskill.com





I guess real difference comes at 4200 16-16-16 and they can even do 4400 16-16-16:








*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread


It´s reboot stable over a bigger temp range?By me is that the problem, if i test between like 20-35° H2O it´s not real stable, GSat Memtest is can do, for 24/7 it´s for trashcan^^ So higher the frequency is so lower is the temp range by me.I have give up 4700CL17-17 for 24/7^^. CL17-18 is...




www.overclock.net




I doubt 4000 16-19-19 do 4400 16-16-16, so if only 50€ difference, they are certainly worth it.

Surely G.Skill bins their CL14 kits more for CL14 and their CL16 kits more for CL16. So I would say for Intel go for CL16 kits and for AMD for CL14 kits.
But even 3600 14-15-15 is not very good for CL14 OC, it only does 3600 14-14-14 1.37V, 3733 is not stable. So I don't see the point in this kit, I can't recommend it to anyone.
Only 4133 16-16-16 Karhu stable and 4400 17-17-17 so-so stability, really sad for the price actually.
I guess my ranking is wrong then, 4000 16-19-19 1.40V should be better.
Not much price difference to 4000 16-16-16 in Germany though, 16-19-19 are 300-360€ and 16-16-16 are 315-360€.


@*bscool*: So what do 4400 17-18-18 do? I'm quite sure this is the only one that can challenge 4000 16-16-16 1.40V. I will post 4000 16-16-16 minimum voltages the following weekend.


----------



## morph.

menko2 said:


> I mean that we wont be cpu bound in quite some time with either 10900k or 11900k. But with next gen GPUs (RTX 4090) we will provably bound by the pcie3.0 bandwith from 10900k.
> 
> The 11900k then will be ok with its pcie4.0 lines..


PCIE 4 is dead in around 6months anyway ddr5 & pcie 5 are in bound.


----------



## Arlina

MAG B560M BAZOOKA


Powered by Intel 11th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr, USB 3.2




www.msi.com





New rocket lake microcode(rev 40) come this motherboard.

- CPU feature and performance improvement.


----------



## Nizzen

Arlina said:


> MAG B560M BAZOOKA
> 
> 
> Powered by Intel 11th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr, USB 3.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New rocket lake microcode(rev 40) come this motherboard.
> 
> - CPU feature and performance improvement.


Anyone know about a new bios for z490i unify? (itx)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Anyone know about a new bios for z490i unify? (itx)


7C77 17V






E7C77IMS.17V.zip







drive.google.com


----------



## bscool

@Waspinator I am probably CPU IMC limited also. The 4400c17 kit could do 1.55v 4400c16-16-16 with subs tight on z490 Apex and 10700k. Didn't do any long term stability mem test Just ran memtest for a few mins and gamed. On z490 Unify [email protected] with 10850k. Z590 Apex the do [email protected]/11900k.

I didn't do extensive testing which would take days lowering voltages and testing stability. Just some quick throw them in and see what they do. They are probably slightly better than the 4000c16-16-16 Neo kit I have but it is minimal. I must get fairly luck as all the 2x16 kits I have run about the same.

But this z590 Apex I got a dog. Did more testing trying all kinds of ODTs voltages etc and slot 1/cha is a dog. 3733 it is done. Slot2/chb 4000-4133. And to get Slot1/cha to even work at 3733 have to crank votlages on mem io/sa way up. I have never had a MB were the slots varied more than about 100/133mhz between slots.

But I am no going to bother getting another one. It doesn't matter if I can run 3733 or 3866 in gear one. It is a little disappointing though for a $600 MB.

Edit adding more rambling. I would think the 4000c16-19-19 kit is not as good of a kit especially now that the straight 4000c16 kit is out but I have seen people with the 16-19-19 kit clock as good as any other kit. The reason I made the comment about they are all so close is when someone is on here for months debating over a memory kit like getting the "holy grail" kit will change their life. Just buy one and find out. No other way. You could buy a 4400c17 kit and a 3200c14 might out clock it or go tighter timings with lower voltages. If someone want the best bin pay for it, then you don't have to wonder what if...........


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 7C77 17V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E7C77IMS.17V.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Where do you find new msi bioses?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Where do you find new msi bioses?


I have connections to a higher power


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I have connections to a higher power


Good enough for me 😎🤙
Building a new gamer for my daughter


----------



## GtiJason

bscool said:


> If you want a good binned kit buy one on HWbot. They sell for similar prices to what you will pay retail and sometimes less. HWBOT Marketplace
> 
> You can also post a wanted add.
> 
> At least then you know someone tested it and it does say 4400c16 or 4700c17 etc. But that doesn't mean it will one your MB and CPU as they may be the weak link. Dang no guarantees in life








Any interest in Highend DDR4-dual rank B-die kits?


Hi, I still have a couple of new DDR4-4000C16/17 kits. Is there any interest here to buy these after rkl can´t match max freqs cml could offer?



community.hwbot.org


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX Beta Bios 0903*

1. Improve system performance

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX 0903 BETA BIOS
ROG-MAXIMUS-XIII-APEX-ASUS-0903.7z


*ROG STRIX Z590 Series 0902 and 0903 Beta Bios*

1. Improve system performance

ROG STRIX Z590-A GAMING WIFI 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-STRIX-Z590-A-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0902.7z

ROG STRIX Z590-F GAMING WIFI 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-STRIX-Z590-F-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0902.7z

ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI 0902 BETA BIOS
ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0902.7z

ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI 0903 BETA BIOS
ROG-STRIX-Z590-I-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0903.7z


Due to the COVID19 problem, I am working from home
So there may be a delay in replying or updating the BIOS
Sorry


----------



## safedisk

Esenel said:


> Core OC?
> B Die SR? DR?
> Gear1?2?
> 
> Thanks


I haven't tested it yet 
I work from home due to covid19 problem, I'll check it later and let me know
sorry bro


----------



## safedisk

bigcid10 said:


> Anything for strix z590-e ?
> Thank you


Hey Here
You can download 
ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0902.7z


----------



## Antsu

encrypted11 said:


> I think the availability of golden samples are better on early launch with Intel.
> 
> I’ve gotten a 1.376V 5.3GHz, 5.2GHz 1.312V socket sense 8700k.It was the best of 5 units. Later on, die harvesting for 8086K and Xeon E started and silicon lotto was worse on later batches. Won a rookie hwbot competition with that chip on approx 240 rad worth of water cooling capacity. Benching GB with low 1.4Vs at 5.5GHz, superpi at 5.6GHz similar volts.
> 
> The same applied for 9900K/ 9900KS, Xeon Es when Intel started harvesting for a better bin. Usually when Intel starts harvesting dies for products on different markets aside from desktop S/H platform good chips, the top desktop K product scores worse in lotto.


Meh. I got 2x 8700K's that were literally bought on launch day and both were absolute turds. Running at very cool temperatures after a delid, both still needed ~1.5V for 5.0Ghz OCCT stability. In December there was a sale on 8700K's and picked one up, it did +300Mhz on the same voltage.


----------



## fray_bentos

bscool said:


> @Waspinator I am probably CPU IMC limited also. The 4400c17 kit could do 1.55v 4400c16-16-16 with subs tight on z490 Apex and 10700k. Didn't do any long term stability mem test Just ran memtest for a few mins and gamed. On z490 Unify [email protected] with 10850k. Z590 Apex the do [email protected]/11900k.
> 
> I didn't do extensive testing which would take days lowering voltages and testing stability. Just some quick throw them in and see what they do. They are probably slightly better than the 4000c16-16-16 Neo kit I have but it is minimal. I must get fairly luck as all the 2x16 kits I have run about the same.
> 
> But this z590 Apex I got a dog. Did more testing trying all kinds of ODTs voltages etc and slot 1/cha is a dog. 3733 it is done. Slot2/cha 4000-4133. And to get Slot1/cha to even work at 3733 have to crank votlages on mem io/sa way up. I have never had a MB were the slots varied more than about 100/133mhz between slots.
> 
> But I am no going to bother getting another one. It doesn't matter if I can run 3733 or 3866 in gear one. It is a little disappointing though for a $600 MB.
> 
> Edit adding more rambling. I would think the 4000c16-19-19 kit is not as good of a kit especially now that the straight 4000c16 kit is out but I have seen people with the 16-19-19 kit clock as good as any other kit. The reason I made the comment about they are all so close is when someone is on here for months debating over a memory kit like getting the "holy grail" kit will change their life. Just buy one and find out. No other way. You could buy a 4400c17 kit and a 3200c14 might out clock it or go tighter timings with lower voltages. If someone want the best bin pay for it, then you don't have to wonder what if...........


??? You are blaming poor gear 1 clocks on RKL on the Z590 "dog" motherboard. That's a limitation of the IMC implementation in RKL CPU not your motherboard. I hope you didn't buy another motherboard as you are unlikely to see any difference.


----------



## bscool

fray_bentos said:


> ??? You are blaming poor gear 1 clocks on RKL on the Z590 "dog" motherboard. That's a limitation of the IMC implementation in RKL CPU not your motherboard. I hope you didn't buy another motherboard as you are unlikely to see any difference.


You are not understanding what I wrote. It is only on channel A. @OLDFATSHEEP MB is only a difference of 133 between channels. Mine is 266+. Have you every binned slots and sticks? Then you would know what I am talking about.

"slot 1/cha is a dog. 3733 it is done. Slot2/chb 4000-4133"

Slot 1 and slot 2 does not mean gear1 and gear 2 

I also checked tonight in Gear 2 and same i can run 5066 in slot2 but slot 1 is done at 4800. The same 11900k cpu and ram in z490 mb would do 5066. So it IS the MB not RKL.

Edit I see i had a typo maybe that caused the confusion. I corrected it.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> You are not understanding what I wrote. It is only on channel A. @OLDFATSHEEP MB is only a difference of 133 between channels. Mine is 266+. Have you every binned slots and sticks? Then you would know what I am talking about.
> 
> "slot 1/cha is a dog. 3733 it is done. Slot2/chb 4000-4133"
> 
> Slot 1 and slot 2 does not mean gear1 and gear 2
> 
> I also checked tonight in Gear 2 and same i can run 5066 in slot2 but slot 1 is done at 4800. The same 11900k cpu and ram in z490 mb would do 5066. So it is not the MB not RKL.


Yeah, in gear 2 its even more severe. air cooled CHA can go up to 6133 easily, but CHB...even 5600 would be a problem.


----------



## fray_bentos

bscool said:


> You are not understanding what I wrote. It is only on channel A. @OLDFATSHEEP MB is only a difference of 133 between channels. Mine is 266+. Have you every binned slots and sticks? Then you would know what I am talking about.
> 
> "slot 1/cha is a dog. 3733 it is done. Slot2/chb 4000-4133"
> 
> Slot 1 and slot 2 does not mean gear1 and gear 2
> 
> I also checked tonight in Gear 2 and same i can run 5066 in slot2 but slot 1 is done at 4800. The same 11900k cpu and ram in z490 mb would do 5066. So it IS the MB not RKL.
> 
> Edit I see i had a typo maybe that caused the confusion. I corrected it.


Thanks for the clarification and correction. I have never binned RAM and never wish to do so; it's hard/dull enough doing basic tuning and stability testing for a single kit.


----------



## yahfz

@safedisk There's no 0903 yet for the M13 Hero?


----------



## bigcid10

safedisk said:


> Hey Here
> You can download
> ROG-STRIX-Z590-E-GAMING-WIFI-ASUS-0902.7z


Thank you
this bios solved my cold boot not display on logon issue


----------



## SirOli

@safedisk / shamino

Great bios support for the Apex13
With Bios 903 I'm able to boot my 11900k @3950CL14 Gear1 and bench with 4000CL14 Gear1
I got a latency of 35ns @Aida.

I'm very happy with the numbers


----------



## Groove2013

SirOli said:


> @safedisk / shamino
> 
> Great bios support for the Apex13
> With Bios 903 I'm able to boot my 11900k @3950CL14 Gear1 and bench with 4000CL14 Gear1
> I got a latency of 35ns @Aida.
> 
> I'm very happy with the numbers
> 
> View attachment 2511966


2x8 GB or 2x16 GB?


----------



## SirOli

2*16GB


----------



## Groove2013

SirOli said:


> 2*16GB
> 
> View attachment 2511968


SA/IO/VDIMM voltages?


----------



## SirOli

1,45|1,35|1,525

[email protected] WC
[email protected] with 120mm fan


----------



## Groove2013

SirOli said:


> 1,45|1,35|1,525


CPU/RAM watercooled? Custom or AiO?


----------



## roooo

SirOli said:


> 2*16GB
> 
> View attachment 2511968


Nice. Would be interesting to see how tight you can go at 3866 stable.

Btw. - did you get 4000C14 stable?


----------



## SirOli

Didn't test tighter timings.
Was very happy to achieve 4000CL14 Gear1 finally.

Edit:
3866 is game stable for hours without problems.
4000 were only used to bench a bit, don't know if it's stable.


----------



## roooo

SirOli said:


> 3866 is game stable for hours without problems.


At 14-14-14-24?


----------



## SirOli

Yes.
Tested with CP2077 and Anno1800.


----------



## skullbringer

got a m13a and am facing a few issues rn, currently on bios 0902, maybe some of you know workarounds:

Vdimm is limited to 2.0V, while VTT DDR goes up to 1.3V. is this intended, can you somehow go past 2.0V dimm?
at bclk >=102.5 system always freezes, cpu and memory are sufficiently downclocked via multiplier and can do e.g. 106 bclk on another board. Are there certain settings needed for higher bclk?


----------



## owikh84

Some B-die DR benching, not the best kit though but mobo is strong...

*11900K ES SP76
M13E BIOS 0901
G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB

CPU - stock
2x16GB 3866 CL14-15-15-34-2T @1.55V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.50/1.45V
TXP 4, PPD 0*


*CPU - stock
2x16GB 4400 CL17-17-17-37-1T @1.50V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.35/1.42V
TXP auto, PPD auto*


Credits to @cstkl1 for the OC profiles, I just added 50mV from his kit that's known to be better than mine.


----------



## safedisk

skullbringer said:


> got a m13a and am facing a few issues rn, currently on bios 0902, maybe some of you know workarounds:
> 
> Vdimm is limited to 2.0V, while VTT DDR goes up to 1.3V. is this intended, can you somehow go past 2.0V dimm?
> at bclk >=102.5 system always freezes, cpu and memory are sufficiently downclocked via multiplier and can do e.g. 106 bclk on another board. Are there certain settings needed for higher bclk?


hey
1. If use ln2 mode, you can use more than 2.0v voltage.
LN2 MODE cpu temp very hot so need to set 2 voltages. (PLL Termination voltage and CPU Standby Voltage 1.05v need setting)
2. When booting with bclk 100, turbov can't increase the bclk clock much So you need a high bclk direct boot in bios


----------



## safedisk

yahfz said:


> @safedisk There's no 0903 yet for the M13 Hero?


hey hero last ver 0902


----------



## roooo

safedisk said:


> I work from home due to covid19 problem, I'll check it later and let me know


If that means you're affected yourself - all the best wishes and get well soon! I'm not expecting an answer ;-)


----------



## skullbringer

safedisk said:


> hey
> 1. If use ln2 mode, you can use more than 2.0v voltage.
> LN2 MODE cpu temp very hot so need to set 2 voltages. (PLL Termination voltage and CPU Standby Voltage 1.05v need setting)
> 2. When booting with bclk 100, turbov can't increase the bclk clock much So you need a high bclk direct boot in bios


1. runs toasty in safe boot, but once 1.05V are set for both it's fine, thanks a lot for that!
2. what's the limit here, is it turbov or something in hardware?

also kind of related, does rtl tweaking work correctly in 0902? whatever offsets or fixed values I set are getting ignored and it always trains the same rtls as auto... 🤔


----------



## NorySS

roooo said:


> m=1.5V, MCIO=1.3V, SA=1.5V, but HCI will start throwing an error or two after 30..50%. This could not be solved by varying voltages. AIDA will give





owikh84 said:


> Some B-die DR benching, not the best kit though but mobo is strong...
> 
> *11900K ES SP76
> M13E BIOS 0901
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB
> 
> CPU - stock
> 2x16GB 3866 CL14-15-15-34-2T @1.55V
> VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.50/1.45V
> TXP 4, PPD 0*
> 
> 
> *CPU - stock
> 2x16GB 4400 CL17-17-17-37-1T @1.50V
> VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.35/1.42V
> TXP auto, PPD auto*
> 
> 
> Credits to @cstkl1 for the OC profiles, I just added 50mV from his kit that's known to be better than mine.


man, I have been following you and @cstkl1 post. I also have an M13E and SP93 11900K, and I cant get it to boot past 3733+
I've tested this DR ram on an AMD ITX board its done 3800c14. Even switched to SR, no dice.
any other tips? 

Also, has anyone been able to push 4xSR sticks? 

Thanks!
Nory


----------



## spin5000

Is there any general agreement on what 11900K steppings / models / revisions are better for overclocking? Any how do you find out the stepping? Is it listing on the box's label?


----------



## owikh84

NorySS said:


> man, I have been following you and @cstkl1 post. I also have an M13E and SP93 11900K, and I cant get it to boot past 3733+
> I've tested this DR ram on an AMD ITX board its done 3800c14. Even switched to SR, no dice.
> any other tips?
> 
> Also, has anyone been able to push 4xSR sticks?
> 
> Thanks!
> Nory


Hey bro, thanks for following. Actually I'm also not sure what are the important settings for my 3866C14 easy boot.
Perhaps you may try these settings (click the spoilers as well):











Spoiler























The same kit is able to do 3866 14-15-15-28-1T at 1.55v on my Strix B550-I as well.


----------



## bscool

Has anyone used 10th gen CPU in z590 Apex and check mem channel difference vs 11th Gen CPU? With 2 different 11900k I was seeing 266mhz between dim slots with SR in gear 1 and gear 2. With DR BD I could not boot or run past 4533. I was thinking I had a "bad/weak" MB.

I just tested z590 Apex with 10700k to see if there was the same 266mhz difference between mem channel and limited at 4533 with DR BD. With 10700k I can boot 4600 CHA and 4700 CHB. So it might be the 11900k CPUs I have IMCs.

I understand it is not an equal comparison being 10th gen vs 11th I just wanted to see if there was the same 266mmhz difference or wall at 4533/DR BD I saw with 11th gen CPU. And I realize I didn't really find anything since with DR in gear 2 both channels were the same with DR [email protected]

I still need to test with SR. But wondering if anyone else compared channel difference with 10th gen CPU in z590 Apex.

Edit: Tested with 10700k/z590 with SR b die and CHA=4800 CHB= 5066 so it looks it is the board as that matches what happened with 2 different 11900ks. In z490 Apex same CPUs and ram could run 5066+.


----------



## owikh84

DJR SR OC...
For some reason I am not able to reduce the tRRD at all, no idea why...


*11900K ES SP76
M13E BIOS 0707
KLEVV Bolt XR 3600C18 2x8GB (MYR409 ~ $98 USD)

CPU - stock
2x8GB 5066 CL20-28-28-48-1T @1.60V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.35/1.50V !*









Update 30/5: it's the combination of RAM timings, now tRRD 6,4 is finally possible... 

*11900K ES SP76
M13E BIOS 0901
KLEVV Bolt XR 3600C18 2x8GB 

CPU - stock
2x8GB 5066 CL20-27-27-31-1T @1.60V
VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.50/1.50V*


----------



## sugi0lover

owikh84 said:


> DJR SR OC...
> For some reason I am not able to reduce the tRRD at all, no idea why...
> 
> 
> *11900K ES SP76
> M13E BIOS 0707
> KLEVV Bolt XR 3600C18 2x8GB (MYR409 ~ $98 USD)
> 
> CPU - stock
> 2x8GB 5066 CL20-28-28-48-1T @1.60V
> VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.35/1.50V !*
> View attachment 2512116


I had a short experience with KLEVV 16G PC4-32000 CL19 (8Gx2) BOLT XR.
Check ram timings, no problem with tRRD


----------



## skullbringer

owikh84 said:


> DJR SR OC...
> For some reason I am not able to reduce the tRRD at all, no idea why...
> 
> 
> *11900K ES SP76
> M13E BIOS 0707
> KLEVV Bolt XR 3600C18 2x8GB (MYR409 ~ $98 USD)
> 
> CPU - stock
> 2x8GB 5066 CL20-28-28-48-1T @1.60V
> VCCSA/VCCIO - 1.35/1.50V !*
> View attachment 2512116


I had a similar issue, but with B-Die and on the M12A. Could not lower tRRDs at all below default or it would throwing errors after a few minutes in TM5. 

BIOS update fixed it for me.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

3933CL15... VDIMM 1.5V, MCIO 1.4V, SA 1.5V...

Working on 4000C15 now.


----------



## Groove2013

@OLDFATSHEEP SA perhaps a little bit too high for 24/7?
Or is just for benching?


----------



## Waspinator

1.50/1.40V should be enough for 4600 18-18-18. For 4000 you need like 1.10/1.10V.


----------



## Lownage

Waspinator said:


> 1.50/1.40V should be enough for 4600 18-18-18. For 4000 you need like 1.10/1.10V.


On CML yes, on RKL Gear 1 no


----------



## bscool

Lownage said:


> On CML yes, on RKL Gear 1 no


Did you ever get over 4266 working on DR b die and what can you do gear 1? Have you ever checked CHA and CHB mem speeds to see how much difference you have?


----------



## bscool

I have been doing some more testing and comparing with z490/z590 swapping 10/11th gen CPU trying figure out what is going on. I thought I had a bad/weak z590 Apex MB as CHA max is 3733 in gear 1 and CHB can do 4000 easy with SR or DR b die.

So I swap 11900k back to z490 Apex and find the same thing. So now it looks like it might be the IMC. Really confusing because with SR in gear 2 Z590 CHA maxes @4800 CHB 5066 but in z490 gear 2 5066 easy and sometimes does 5333.

@OLDFATSHEEP @cstkl1 @safedisk @Nizzen or anyone else any idea or input?

Note I have 2 different 11900k and both tested the same with 3733 CHA and 4000CHB in z490 or z590 Apex in Gear 1. If it is the 11900k IMC why is z490 Apex letting me run 5066 with SR but z590 only 4800 in CHA in Gear 2?

Also this is just booting into Windows not testing stability @ these speeds. Tried all kinds of voltages, Memory Algo, Mem sticks etc. about everything I can think of. ODT

It is not a big deal just curious. Maybe it is just a 11th gen thing to have the 266mhz difference in gear 1 on some CPUS/IMC? Would be nice to get other to test and get feedback. I know @OLDFATSHEEP said he found 133mhz when he check CHA to CHB with 11900k.

@sugi0lover Have you compared channels?


----------



## Lownage

bscool said:


> Did you ever get over 4266 working on DR b die and what can you do gear 1? Have you ever checked CHA and CHB mem speeds to see how much difference you have?


I managed to get 4300-16-17-17-32 stable at reasonable voltages. 1,49V Dimm, SA 1,15V, IO 1,2V. Anything higher does not train/boot.

Gear 1 3733-14-15-15-20 is my current stable profile. 1,49V Dimm, SA 1,25, IO 1,15V. 

I can boot 3866-15-15-15-30 which isn´t stable at all even with high voltages like 1,55V Dimm, SA 1,45V, IO 1,4V. 

SR DJR was stable at 5066-19-25-25-45 1,615V Dimm, don´t remeber SA/IO. These were somewhere between 1,25V and 1,35V
Those sticks even booted 5333-21-27-27-50 @ 1,625V which wasn´t stable though.

Didn´t test each channel individualy, maybe I will test it in the future.

Since my Gear 1 setup is faster than my Gear 2, I settled with 3733c14 (in gaming).

Don´t know whether my IMC or RAM is the limiting factor.


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> I have been doing some more testing and comparing with z490/z590 swapping 10/11th gen CPU trying figure out what is going on. I thought I had a bad/weak z590 Apex MB as CHA max is 3733 in gear 1 and CHB can do 4000 easy with SR or DR b die.
> 
> So I swap 11900k back to z490 Apex and find the same thing. So now it looks like it might be the IMC. Really confusing because with SR in gear 2 Z590 CHA maxes @4800 CHB 5066 but in z490 gear 2 5066 easy and sometimes does 5333.
> 
> @OLDFATSHEEP @cstkl1 @safedisk @Nizzen or anyone else any idea or input?
> 
> Note I have 2 different 11900k and both tested the same with 3733 CHA and 4000CHB in z490 or z590 Apex in Gear 1. If it is the 11900k IMC why is z490 Apex letting me run 5066 with SR but z590 only 4800 in CHA in Gear 2?
> 
> Also this is just booting into Windows not testing stability @ these speeds. Tried all kinds of voltages, Memory Algo, Mem sticks etc. about everything I can think of. ODT
> 
> It is not a big deal just curious. Maybe it is just a 11th gen thing to have the 266mhz difference in gear 1 on some CPUS/IMC? Would be nice to get other to test and get feedback. I know @OLDFATSHEEP said he found 133mhz when he check CHA to CHB with 11900k.
> 
> @sugi0lover Have you compared channels?


I haven't compared channels. But I have some experience with Z490 Apex and Z590 Apex.
With the same 11900K, Ram oc on Z490 Apex was more stable and easier than on Z590 Apex.
Once I found the stable setting on Z490 Apex, I could try other settings and go back to stable setting without any problem.
On Z590 Apex, It took longer time to find stable setting because even the same setting is sometimes stable or unstable.
Z490 Apex + 10900K was like that unstable. But Z490 + 11900K was very stable once I found the setting.
Also I found that sa and io2 were lower on Z490 than on Z590 with the same 11900K CPU. Maybe that's just me.
For exmaple, 4800-16-17-17-28-265-1T(gear2) needs io2 1.05 and sa 1.05 on Z490 Apex.
But on Z590 Apex, I need io2 1.10 and sa 1.20 for the same ram setting.
However, the performance on Z490 Apex + 11900K is lower than on Z590 Apex + 11900k even though the same CPU OC + RAM OC.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP SA perhaps a little bit too high for 24/7?
> Or is just for benching?


Its totally fine


----------



## musician

F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA @3866 15 15 15 Gear1 + Maximus XIII Hero + 11900K
My daily build for summer.
Big thank you to @OLDFATSHEEP as this is basically his build with just few minor changes. Works great


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> I have been doing some more testing and comparing with z490/z590 swapping 10/11th gen CPU trying figure out what is going on. I thought I had a bad/weak z590 Apex MB as CHA max is 3733 in gear 1 and CHB can do 4000 easy with SR or DR b die.
> 
> So I swap 11900k back to z490 Apex and find the same thing. So now it looks like it might be the IMC. Really confusing because with SR in gear 2 Z590 CHA maxes @4800 CHB 5066 but in z490 gear 2 5066 easy and sometimes does 5333.
> 
> @OLDFATSHEEP @cstkl1 @safedisk @Nizzen or anyone else any idea or input?
> 
> Note I have 2 different 11900k and both tested the same with 3733 CHA and 4000CHB in z490 or z590 Apex in Gear 1. If it is the 11900k IMC why is z490 Apex letting me run 5066 with SR but z590 only 4800 in CHA in Gear 2?
> 
> Also this is just booting into Windows not testing stability @ these speeds. Tried all kinds of voltages, Memory Algo, Mem sticks etc. about everything I can think of. ODT
> 
> It is not a big deal just curious. Maybe it is just a 11th gen thing to have the 266mhz difference in gear 1 on some CPUS/IMC? Would be nice to get other to test and get feedback. I know @OLDFATSHEEP said he found 133mhz when he check CHA to CHB with 11900k.
> 
> @sugi0lover Have you compared channels?


Could be the CPU pins that your socket is not well-contacting with your chip.

For my experience, I have ever tried two Z490 APEXs. For the same 10th gen chip, one can do 4933 but another can only do 4800.

If its this case, you can first try to adjust the screws of your cooler, or just try another board.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Tried 4000C16 last night. It firstly errored at Test 4 of Ollie. Obvious it was caused by the Dimm signal degradation. Bumped the IO (not MCIO) from 1.05V to 1.35V then Test 4 passed.

Currently facing temperature problems that I need to keep the ram temp below 45C, or it will throw errors.









My friend passed DR 4000C14 1usmus when cpu temp was below 20C. So probably I need to work more to enhance the ram signal, since my chip is currently running under aio, and the cpu temp can go over 50C under ram tests. 💀


----------



## menko2

musician said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA @3866 15 15 15 Gear1 + Maximus XIII Hero + 11900K
> My daily build for summer.
> Big thank you to @OLDFATSHEEP as this is basically his build with just few minor changes. Works great


Nice set up man. I got the same following the forum. I just skipped the 11900k until the bios are more mature. It looks like the 10900k has a little edge for gaming.


----------



## Bilco

musician said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA @3866 15 15 15  Gear1 + Maximus XIII Hero + 11900K
> My daily build for summer.
> Big thank you to @OLDFATSHEEP as this is basically his build with just few minor changes. Works great


Out of curiosity have you tried gear 2 at 4400c17?

Any bench marks between dr 4400c17 and 3866c15? 

Im curious to see which would come out on top.


----------



## Groove2013

Bilco said:


> Out of curiosity have you tried gear 2 at 4400c17?
> 
> Any bench marks between dr 4400c17 and 3866c15?
> 
> Im curious to see which would come out on top.


3866 better


----------



## xl_digit

13-13-13-26 needs 1.65VDIMM and reaches only 300% Karhu until 1 error. (i don´t want to increase any further Voltage)
14-14-14-28 runns with 1.47VDIMM reaches 20000% Karhu and still 0 errors. (the 24/7 setup for me)


----------



## spin5000

spin5000 said:


> Is there any general agreement on what 11900K steppings / models / revisions are better for overclocking? Any how do you find out the stepping? Is it listing on the box's label?


???? Anybody??????


----------



## yahfz

musician said:


> F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA @3866 15 15 15 Gear1 + Maximus XIII Hero + 11900K
> My daily build for summer.
> Big thank you to @OLDFATSHEEP as this is basically his build with just few minor changes. Works great


mind sharing what was the culprit between having 3866 working and not working? Been trying to get it to work for a while now and couldn't. Would be nice if you could share a CMO


----------



## sugi0lover

yahfz said:


> mind sharing what was the culprit between having 3866 working and not working? Been trying to get it to work for a while now and couldn't. Would be nice if you could share a CMO


I have two SP89 11900Ks. Both of them can stabilize 5066-17-17-17-28-265-1T (gear 2) with the exact same setup.
and both of can boot 5200-17-17-17-28-265-1T with no problem.









However, the difference comes from gear 1. 11900K (a) can stabilize 3733-13-13-13-14-215-2T, but can't even boot 3866.
The other 11900K (b) can stabilize 3866-13-13-13-14-215-2T with the setup which 11900K (a) can't even boot.
My friend has more than 20 11900Ks, and most of his 11900k have no problem with booting 3866 (even his SP50 can boot 3866),
so I guess my 11900K (a)' imc is not good (at least in gear 1)
Anyway, none of my friend's 20 11900ks can boot 4000 in gear 1.


----------



## Electrosoft

spin5000 said:


> ???? Anybody??????


Fairly new chips so the steppings are the same atm.
It is as it was before....order some and bin them or buy from someone who has binned it or popped it into a higher end Asus/MSI board to get some guidance (make sure to ask if it can do 5.2 or greater all core running whatever floats your boat)
Reading through the forum, some have multiples from the same batch with notable SP variances
Some have high SP chips that can't do 5.2 all core
IMCs vary as always
In other words, fun times as always.

I've tested three 11900k so far with CB23 multi no offsets on a budget MSI Z590-A Pro w/ EVGA CLC 360mm AIO.

First did 5.2 @ 1.475 and two or three cores at 5.3, none at 5.4...in hindsight after selling it realizing it was an ok chip 3733 G1 max stable.
Second did 5.2 @ ~1.375, 5.3 @ 1.525 , 8 cores at 5.4 on Auto (HT disabled because my 360mm AIO can't handle the temps), 3 cores at 5.5 @ 1.540. 3866 G1 max stable
Last one won't do 5.2 no matter how much I throw at it, 1 core at 5.3 and pulls 1.475 @ 5.1. Just a garbage chip. 3733 G1 max stable

Since my budget buddy board is low end, I have no idea what SPs the three chips are. Just how they did with CB23/CB20 testing.

I'll stick with sample two for now as I'm not sure how much better I will find randomly buying chips.


----------



## sdmf74

subbed


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

spin5000 said:


> ???? Anybody??????


11900KB is just launched so you can grab one of those.


----------



## Falkentyne

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 11900KB is just launched so you can grab one of those.
> View attachment 2512394


LMAO !!!!!!!!


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 11900KB is just launched so you can grab one of those.
> View attachment 2512394


24 MB and 10 nm, but only 16 lanes instead of 16 + 4.


----------



## D-EJ915

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 11900KB is just launched so you can grab one of those.
> View attachment 2512394


would be funny to see somebody solder one of those onto an interposer board and get it to work.


----------



## Groove2013

BGA1787 is not LGA1200...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Falkentyne said:


> LMAO !!!!!!!!


Half year lifetime and still no BGA to LGA yet even in Shenzhen.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> BGA1787 is not LGA1200...


The mobile version on the desktop. Need BGA to LGA socket.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

D-EJ915 said:


> would be funny to see somebody solder one of those onto an interposer board and get it to work.


Probably will be available on some DTs like MSI Trident. It would be interesting if could find a BGA to LGA socket and add mc to the BIOS.


----------



## Nizzen

spin5000 said:


> ???? Anybody??????


No


----------



## 74lobster

Excuse me, which is the *LAST updated beta bios for the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO ?* (and a link to download it).

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Spiriva

74lobster said:


> Excuse me, which is the *LAST updated beta bios for the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO ?* (and a link to download it).
> 
> Thanks in advance.











Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


In my anger of not being able to post at higher frequencies, I managed to tighten some timings further. Thanks to @cstkl1 for some help here but I seem to be hitting diminishing returns at this point... There's maybe 1 more timing I can drop by 1 or 2 that is twrrd_dg but I'll save that for...




www.overclock.net


----------



## NorySS

owikh84 said:


> Hey bro, thanks for following. Actually I'm also not sure what are the important settings for my 3866C14 easy boot.
> Perhaps you may try these settings (click the spoilers as well):
> 
> View attachment 2512078
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2512079
> 
> View attachment 2512080
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same kit is able to do 3866 14-15-15-28-1T at 1.55v on my Strix B550-I as well.



Thanks! It did not help with my M13Extreme., it refused to boot with 4xSR, but i was able to do it on the M13APEX with DR. 
I am exchanging my M13Extreme with newegg since it has a bad USB controller and is causing the mobo to shut off randomly.


----------



## owikh84

NorySS said:


> Thanks! It did not help with my M13Extreme., it refused to boot with 4xSR, but i was able to do it on the M13APEX with DR.
> I am exchanging my M13Extreme with newegg since it has a bad USB controller and is causing the mobo to shut off randomly.


These algo and ODT settings only apply to DR Bdie at 3866 CL14.
For 4xSR I just loaded the supplied 4x8gb 4000 Bdie OC preset in M13E, changed a few subs such as tFAW to 16 etc all the way up to 4266 that's all. No algo being adjusted, it just boots fine.
To achieve stability you will need to find the correct combination of SA and MCIO.


----------



## Bilco

Getting some weird system agent voltage behavior currently on the Apex 13... I am setting sa to 1.4/1.42 in bios and the voltage in windows is reading 1.36/1.374 in hw info. I was able to easily boot 3866 on a prior bios(701 I think?) but now trying 802 I can no longer boot into windows with 1.38sa in bios and now require 1.42.

As a bonus I can now clock 3866 15 15 15 30 from 15 16 16 32

Setting the SA to 1.36 is a definate no boot so I am wondering if the reading is wrong or if for some reason I'm seeing a drop in voltage?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bilco said:


> Getting some weird system agent voltage behavior currently on the Apex 13... I am setting sa to 1.4/1.42 in bios and the voltage in windows is reading 1.36/1.374 in hw info. I was able to easily boot 3866 on a prior bios(701 I think?) but now trying 802 I can no longer boot into windows with 1.38sa in bios and now require 1.42.
> 
> As a bonus I can now clock 3866 15 15 15 30 from 15 16 16 32
> 
> Setting the SA to 1.36 is a definate no boot so I am wondering if the reading is wrong or if for some reason I'm seeing a drop in voltage?


You need to set SA LLC to level 3.


----------



## 2500k_2




----------



## YoungChris

Totally realized I forgot to post here. Oops. Here's some screens of my 11900k.








50k gb3 at 50/45/5066








3700c10 1t dr gear 1 and 49 ring through PyPrime, not maxed out but very close.








5.6g through GB3 single core, core/ring/mem all have headroom.








All on air cooling.


----------



## Groove2013

It's all nice, really, but not for daily use, at such voltages and only 16 GB nowadays is almost like 8 GB years ago.


----------



## Geekounet

Hello Guys,

i can't go any higher than 4.8Ghz all cores as i already got high temperatures (pictures attached) with 1.320V Vcore (which is too high compared to the previous gen) below that voltage i'm getting cores errors on OCCT, is it the limit of a 240mm AIO or i've just lost at the silicon lottery? i have a Gigabyte Z590 Gaming X by the way, thanks for reading me


----------



## Groove2013

@Geekounet simply don't use CB23 that uses AVX2 and AVX512.
CB15 that doesn't use AVX or CB20 that uses only AVX is enough.


----------



## Geekounet

So without AVX & AVX512 the temps will drop? by the way on the bios how should i configure AVX & AVX512? thanks for your answer


----------



## Groove2013

Don't disable them in the BIOS.
Just don't stress the CPU with programs that use them to put load on the CPU.


----------



## Electrosoft

Geekounet said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> i can't go any higher than 4.8Ghz all cores as i already got high temperatures (pictures attached) with 1.320V Vcore (which is too high compared to the previous gen) below that voltage i'm getting cores errors on OCCT, is it the limit of a 240mm AIO or i've just lost at the silicon lottery? i have a Gigabyte Z590 Gaming X by the way, thanks for reading me
> 
> View attachment 2512693


What thermal paste and model of 240mm?

You could disable AVX512, but for CB23 runs I've found it saves at most a few degrees.

Is 1.320 what it is pulling or BIOS setting? Is it running on stock auto? How many watts under load?

You could always throw an offset in there to bring down AVX temps overall.

It could be a combo of a poor AIO, poor paste application, the silicon gods frowning down upon you or a mix of all three.


----------



## Geekounet

Groove2013 said:


> Don't disable them in the BIOS.
> Just don't stress the CPU with programs that use them to put load on the CPU.


Yeah i wasn't about to remove just wanted to know how to set them (now it's on AUTO) so OCCT isn't that good too as it's using AVX?


----------



## Geekounet

Electrosoft said:


> What thermal paste and model of 240mm?
> 
> You could disable AVX512, but for CB23 runs I've found it saves at most a few degrees.
> 
> Is 1.320 what it is pulling or BIOS setting? Is it running on stock auto? How many watts under load?
> 
> You could always throw an offset in there to bring down AVX temps overall.
> 
> It could be a combo of a poor AIO, poor paste application, the silicon gods frowning down upon you or a mix of all three.



1.320 on the bios pulling max 1.380, i have to re check but it was something like 220W under load, running on stock auto? you mean auto turbo?
For the paste it's a fresh application of thermal grizzly Aeronaut on a Cooler Master 240L RGB.

Thanks for your help guys


----------



## Geekounet

No difference with Cinebench R20, by the way, i never go above 70c while gaming for long hours...


----------



## morph.

Geekounet said:


> No difference with Cinebench R20, by the way, i never go above 70c while gaming for long hours...
> View attachment 2512729
> View attachment 2512729


Not very familiar with GB boards, however, is it running the latest bios version?
Are you running any LLC?
Show us your VF point offset curve - this is baked into your CPU based on quality and its ability.
EG:










IMHO with 11th gen CPUs can handle a fair bit more vcore/corevid than what 10th gen and prior are caveat I haven't really optimised my vcore/corevid voltages yet but this runs stable 24x7 for me and thermals/tjmax are totally acceptable.


----------



## Electrosoft

Geekounet said:


> 1.320 on the bios pulling max 1.380, i have to re check but it was something like 220W under load, running on stock auto? you mean auto turbo?
> For the paste it's a fresh application of thermal grizzly Aeronaut on a Cooler Master 240L RGB.
> 
> Thanks for your help guys





Geekounet said:


> No difference with Cinebench R20, by the way, i never go above 70c while gaming for long hours...
> View attachment 2512729
> View attachment 2512729


You're only at ~191w @ stock which is actually decent, so I'm trying to figure out why you need 1.38v pull @ 1.32 BIOS setting. That's right around my wattage at stock, but I only need ~1.262 total auto settings and my max temp is 64 running CB23 no offsets, but that is on an EVGA CLC 360w AIO.

I run an MSI board too (Budget MSI Z590-A Pro) and their LLC (aka Mode) at auto is pretty aggressive right around Asus LLC7 so it will actually pull more than set in BIOS but that's still pretty high. That's at LLC8/Mode1 levels. Is your MSI board high enough to give you an CPU Force rating in BIOS for your CPU (Inversely the same as Asus SP rating)?



I'd double check my thermal application and set the system back to absolute stock (pull the cmos) and rerun it again to verify.


----------



## CallMeODZ

some gigabyte boards are ass, the PRO AX has some power delivery issue causing the backside of the board to hit over 100c and that heat soaks into the cpu socket and the vrms
causing the vrms to get over 120c under sustained load, if your board suffer the same issue it will shave off some clock speed for sure

take off the back panel and run your hand over the back of the board next to the cpu coolers bracket just on the right-hand side of it about an inch and a half, then go above the socket
if you know what the vrm screws are look at them on the backside of the board and go just below where the heatsinks would be

dosnt need much to make them angry 5min in intel XTU no avx will do the job

mate tbh id try and chuck on a quick and dirty overclock and see where your cpu falls for silicone quality
goto the bios and put cpu ratio to 5.0 and vcore to 1.45 then goto advanced and chuck llc to extreme
--edit : sorry forgot to mention, chuck the vcore mode onto fixed and not offset or adaptive 

return to windows then do xtu no avx for a few min, if no crash try prime 95 with avx disabled if no crash go back to the bios and try your luck by upping the clock to 5.1
from there you can dial in the vcore. p95 crashes with no avx will provide a lot of headroom for game stability


----------



## spin5000

Electrosoft said:


> Fairly new chips so the steppings are the same atm.
> It is as it was before....order some and bin them or buy from someone who has binned it or popped it into a higher end Asus/MSI board to get some guidance (make sure to ask if it can do 5.2 or greater all core running whatever floats your boat)
> Reading through the forum, some have multiples from the same batch with notable SP variances
> Some have high SP chips that can't do 5.2 all core
> IMCs vary as always
> In other words, fun times as always.
> 
> I've tested three 11900k so far with CB23 multi no offsets on a budget MSI Z590-A Pro w/ EVGA CLC 360mm AIO.
> 
> First did 5.2 @ 1.475 and two or three cores at 5.3, none at 5.4...in hindsight after selling it realizing it was an ok chip 3733 G1 max stable.
> Second did 5.2 @ ~1.375, 5.3 @ 1.525 , 8 cores at 5.4 on Auto (HT disabled because my 360mm AIO can't handle the temps), 3 cores at 5.5 @ 1.540. 3866 G1 max stable
> Last one won't do 5.2 no matter how much I throw at it, 1 core at 5.3 and pulls 1.475 @ 5.1. Just a garbage chip. 3733 G1 max stable
> 
> Since my budget buddy board is low end, I have no idea what SPs the three chips are. Just how they did with CB23/CB20 testing.
> 
> I'll stick with sample two for now as I'm not sure how much better I will find randomly buying chips.


THank you for the reply & information - much appreciated.


----------



## Geekounet

morph. said:


> Not very familiar with GB boards, however, is it running the latest bios version?
> Are you running any LLC?
> Show us your VF point offset curve - this is baked into your CPU based on quality and its ability.
> EG:
> View attachment 2512738
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO with 11th gen CPUs can handle a fair bit more vcore/corevid than what 10th gen and prior are caveat I haven't really optimised my vcore/corevid voltages yet but this runs stable 24x7 for me and thermals/tjmax are totally acceptable.
> 
> View attachment 2512735


Yeah i'm running LLC, i cannot find the VF point offset curve on my board and i've been looking everywhere, by the way yes, the bios is the latest one, here's my bios settings:


----------



## Geekounet

Electrosoft said:


> I'd double check my thermal application and set the system back to absolute stock (pull the cmos) and rerun it again to verify.


I'll do if i cannot find any other reasons for this mess


----------



## Geekounet

CallMeODZ said:


> some gigabyte boards are ass, the PRO AX has some power delivery issue causing the backside of the board to hit over 100c and that heat soaks into the cpu socket and the vrms
> causing the vrms to get over 120c under sustained load, if your board suffer the same issue it will shave off some clock speed for sure
> 
> take off the back panel and run your hand over the back of the board next to the cpu coolers bracket just on the right-hand side of it about an inch and a half, then go above the socket
> if you know what the vrm screws are look at them on the backside of the board and go just below where the heatsinks would be
> 
> dosnt need much to make them angry 5min in intel XTU no avx will do the job
> 
> mate tbh id try and chuck on a quick and dirty overclock and see where your cpu falls for silicone quality
> goto the bios and put cpu ratio to 5.0 and vcore to 1.45 then goto advanced and chuck llc to extreme
> --edit : sorry forgot to mention, chuck the vcore mode onto fixed and not offset or adaptive
> 
> return to windows then do xtu no avx for a few min, if no crash try prime 95 with avx disabled if no crash go back to the bios and try your luck by upping the clock to 5.1
> from there you can dial in the vcore. p95 crashes with no avx will provide a lot of headroom for game stability



I'll do that tomorrow as it's already 5a.m here, by the way when under load i don't see any temp issue on the VRM's on HW so i'm not pretty sure this GB board has this problem, but will double check 

Thanks again for all your asnwers guys


----------



## musician

yahfz said:


> mind sharing what was the culprit between having 3866 working and not working? Been trying to get it to work for a while now and couldn't. Would be nice if you could share a CMO


Hello, there is my *.CMO for the dr bdie 3866C15 Maximus XIII Hero. Well, culprit... loosening rdwr timings to 11, set tRRD_L to 6, as I have stability issues with 4, don´t max out tREFI cuz of summer heat, tRAS to safe tCL + tRCD + 2, DRAM voltage and VCCSA voltage and try/error tRFC.
But really, I am not an experiecned nor a good overclocker, I am more like a lucky noob, I probably won silicon lotery of my CPU IMC, because since certain BIOS I can boot to 3866 with several ram kits. Just could do "tighter" (for me at least) timings with this kit. So I am the last person who should give someone an advice here as I have still lots of things to learn myself


----------



## yahfz

musician said:


> Hello, there is my *.CMO for the dr bdie 3866C15 Maximus XIII Hero. Well, culprit... loosening rdwr timings to 11, set tRRD_L to 6, as I have stability issues with 4, don´t max out tREFI cuz of summer heat, tRAS to safe tCL + tRCD + 2, DRAM voltage and VCCSA voltage and try/error tRFC.
> But really, I am not an experiecned nor a good overclocker, I am more like a lucky noob, I probably won silicon lotery of my CPU IMC, because since certain BIOS I can boot to 3866 with several ram kits. Just could do "tighter" (for me at least) timings with this kit. So I am the last person who should give someone an advice here as I have still lots of things to learn myself


That CMO is for an older bios unfortunately.


----------



## musician

yahfz said:


> That CMO is for an older bios unfortunately.


It is the latest for the hero, afaik there is one newer BIOS only for Apex, maybe the Extreme too.


----------



## Electrosoft

Geekounet said:


> Yeah i'm running LLC, i cannot find the VF point offset curve on my board and i've been looking everywhere, by the way yes, the bios is the latest one, here's my bios settings:
> 
> View attachment 2512749
> View attachment 2512750
> View attachment 2512751
> View attachment 2512755


You have so many odd, conflicting adjustments.....

AVX -7? Extreme LLC? Vcore fixed at 1.330? Is this how the board arrived or did you adjust those settings?

Either pop the battery (recommended) or restore defaults and rerun CB23 at the very least to set a baseline at stock / auto and if it is still running that warm
double check your thermal application and pump speed / fan activity.

I also just realized you're running an *11700k. *So it makes more sense. I had an 11700k that did 5ghz all core but it required 1.456v to do it.


----------



## Geekounet

Electrosoft said:


> You have so many odd, conflicting adjustments.....
> 
> AVX -7? Extreme LLC? Vcore fixed at 1.330? Is this how the board arrived or did you adjust those settings?
> 
> Either pop the battery (recommended) or restore defaults and rerun CB23 at the very least to set a baseline at stock / auto and if it is still running that warm
> double check your thermal application and pump speed / fan activity.
> 
> I also just realized you're running an *11700k. *So it makes more sense. I had an 11700k that did 5ghz all core but it required 1.456v to do it.


I did those settings as i was trying, ive tried several ones, i started LLC @ Turbo first then i started to dig, the same for AVX i started at 3 then tried differents settings, the same for the voltage, i started with 1.285 @5GHZ like it was on my 9700KF, yeah im gonna clear cmos and will see what the temps & everything look like.

By the way, we can also try differents settings, what do you recommend?


----------



## Geekounet

Just did a clear cmos and the temps are more acceptable, note that on the previous ones the fan curves were set to be more aggressive and that on this one i didn't touched them...


----------



## encrypted11

Unify Z590I's V12 beta 2 BIOS seemed pretty stable.

I haven't seen a watchdog or a SA PWM related reboot on this build.

Comes with the uCode 40 related feature, OCTVB in MSI's implementation.


----------



## Geekounet

Here's the result with adjusted fan curves, i don't know if it's important but i also enabled X.M.P & Resizable Bar on this one...


----------



## Electrosoft

Geekounet said:


> Just did a clear cmos and the temps are more acceptable, note that on the previous ones the fan curves were set to be more aggressive and that on this one i didn't touched them...
> View attachment 2512825
> View attachment 2512826
> View attachment 2512825
> View attachment 2512826


Much better and much more in line with what's expected for an 11700k at stock. Sometimes when you get lost adjusting settings and the BIOS goes a bit wonky, I find a good cmos reset/defaults lets you start fresh and see if it was an errant setting somewhere that had your results going askew.


----------



## Geekounet

Electrosoft said:


> Much better and much more in line with what's expected for an 11700k at stock. Sometimes when you get lost adjusting settings and the BIOS goes a bit wonky, I find a good cmos reset/defaults lets you start fresh and see if it was an errant setting somewhere that had your results going askew.


Do you have any settings advices on this fresh BIOS? starting with the Vcore should i try fixed or anything else? for LLC you think TURBO is enough? AVX & AVX512 Offset? anything that i didn't paid attention to?

Thanks again


----------



## auraofjason

Geekounet said:


> Do you have any settings advices on this fresh BIOS? starting with the Vcore should i try fixed or anything else? for LLC you think TURBO is enough? AVX & AVX512 Offset? anything that i didn't paid attention to?
> 
> Thanks again


You don't really need to touch any of those if you're just going for a basic overclock, except maybe LLC but you should get yourself familiar with what it's actually doing before cranking it up like that. Same with all of the settings really.

I'm not sure if you actually need 1.32v for 4.8ghz but maybe 11700k are just that much weaker than 11900k. You're likely most limited by that (if it actually needs that much voltage), as well as your cooler's ability at those voltages. For reference my 11900k can do 5ghz at 1.22v. At 4.8ghz on auto voltage I think it was setting it to like 1.15v, and it probably didn't even need that much.


----------



## Geekounet

auraofjason said:


> You don't really need to touch any of those if you're just going for a basic overclock, except maybe LLC but you should get yourself familiar with what it's actually doing before cranking it up like that. Same with all of the settings really.
> 
> I'm not sure if you actually need 1.32v for 4.8ghz but maybe 11700k are just that much weaker than 11900k. You're likely most limited by that (if it actually needs that much voltage), as well as your cooler's ability at those voltages. For reference my 11900k can do 5ghz at 1.22v. At 4.8ghz on auto voltage I think it was setting it to like 1.15v, and it probably didn't even need that much.


You can see that on auto it's going 4.6Ghz for an average of 1.265V so i'm pretty sure there was something i've been doing wrong except if 200 more Mhz needs that more voltage, gonna try and see what i can get, thanks for your help


----------



## Electrosoft

Geekounet said:


> Here's the result with adjusted fan curves, i don't know if it's important but i also enabled X.M.P & Resizable Bar on this one...
> 
> View attachment 2512832
> View attachment 2512833
> View attachment 2512832
> View attachment 2512833
> 
> [/





Geekounet said:


> You can see that on auto it's going 4.6Ghz for an average of 1.265V so i'm pretty sure there was something i've been doing wrong except if 200 more Mhz needs that more voltage, gonna try and see what i can get, thanks for your help


I wish clocking scaled linearly but it doesn't. 

You could set a CB23 30 min stress test as a baseline criteria and just start binning up +1 and see where it lands you on auto settings till it either gives up the ghost (then increase LLC or manual vcore), hits a thermal wall or both. This is if you want a higher degree of stability.

Seeing as 1.330/1.380 had you in the 90's, you kind of have an idea where your cooling will start to redline but it also comes down to what you want to do with your system. If it is just casual use and gaming, you can get away with a lot more than if you require 100% rock solid stability and run multithreaded taxing software. I'm sure plenty of 11700k and 11900k users aren't running super stable overclocks but they're stable for what they require and sometimes that's all you need.

As for AVX, if your software uses AVX and you push your OC up but offset it, it kind of defeats the purpose.

I used to be a big AVX offset user, but as AVX is popping up in more and more software, I keep AVX offset off and set my max OCs around that.


----------



## icycookies

Geekounet said:


> Here's the result with adjusted fan curves, i don't know if it's important but i also enabled X.M.P & Resizable Bar on this one...
> 
> View attachment 2512832
> View attachment 2512833
> View attachment 2512832
> View attachment 2512833


For the z590 master, I had to disable all turbo functions. Gigabyte bios are iffy with intels turbo frequency ( ABT and TVB)


----------



## Geekounet

icycookies said:


> For the z590 master, I had to disable all turbo functions. Gigabyte bios are iffy with intels turbo frequency ( ABT and TVB)


That's a hint but when i disable turbo i can't set core by core frequencies, do you have screenshots of your bios oc? that would help a lot, thanks


----------



## Geekounet

Just found that even without setting core by core frequencies it will follow the main multplier, my bad...


----------



## Geekounet

I think the turbos functions were the problem, i'm able to run 4.9Ghz all cores now with 1.380V (wasn't able to go this high with this voltage before) the temps are quiet hot in Cinebench, but as you can see, here i've been playing for 2hours long and here's the temps...

By the way, i've the same temps when running OCCT, i don't understand why there's so much difference between OCCT & Cinebench (they both runs AVX btw) 
















Temps going crazy with Cinebench :/


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Having fun with Z590 now. AIR cooling 6000 MHz 









26th now:








OLDFATSHEEP`s Memory Frequency score: 3036.1 MHz with a DDR4 SDRAM


The DDR4 SDRAM @ 3036.1MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Memory Frequency benchmark. OLDFATSHEEPranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## IronAge

Want a DR B-Dies Kit for M13A, 4000C16 TridentZ Neo should be fine ? Any toughts ? dont want to spend much more than ~300 bucks.


----------



## YoungChris

Currently having trouble with benching gear 1, so I tried cranking down the timings to make up for my lack in frequency.








I'd say this is pretty good for an all-air result, especially considering this is a random used-market set and I didn't even have a fan on the memory.


----------



## morph.

YoungChris said:


> Currently having trouble with benching gear 1, so I tried cranking down the timings to make up for my lack in frequency.
> View attachment 2512911
> 
> I'd say this is pretty good for an all-air result, especially considering this is a random used-market set and I didn't even have a fan on the memory.


wow... aida latency bandwidth?
what voltages...is that the 400016-flat kit or the 16-19-19-39


----------



## geriatricpollywog

My 10700k keeps degrading so I'm gonna buy a new CPU today. For gaming, would a 10900K or 11900K be better? I will be overclocking the core and memory as far as possible. I plan to keep my Z490 Unify, which has served me well.


----------



## morph.

0451 said:


> My 10700k keeps degrading so I'm gonna buy a new CPU today. For gaming, would a 10900K or 11900K be better? I will be overclocking the core and memory as far as possible. I plan to keep my Z490 Unify, which has served me well.


they are neck and neck mostly but the benefit of 11900k IMHO is the stability over 10th gen which has a fair bit of random crashing and pcie 4.0 is a nice sweetener. I went from a 10850k to a 11900k for the sake of stability.


----------



## YoungChris

morph. said:


> wow... aida latency bandwidth?
> what voltages...is that the 400016-flat kit or the 16-19-19-39


Voltages are high:
1.45 io2, 1.65 vsa, 2.11vdimm, no change to vtt.
The CPU-Z SPD tab shows the XMP, 4000 16-19-19
With timings more optimized for Geek/Aida, and running 50/45/3600, I was sitting at a bit over 59k read/57k write/60k copy and a bit under 35ns latency.








I haven't tried this set of timings and 3733 for Aida, but I suspect it would be "better".


----------



## morph.

YoungChris said:


> Voltages are high:
> 1.45 io2, 1.65 vsa, 2.11vdimm, no change to vtt.
> The CPU-Z SPD tab shows the XMP, 4000 16-19-19
> With timings more optimized for Geek/Aida, and running 50/45/3600, I was sitting at a bit over 59k read/57k write/60k copy and a bit under 35ns latency.
> View attachment 2512918
> 
> I haven't tried this set of timings and 3733 for Aida, but I suspect it would be "better".


ah okay sexy bench result but voltages definitely look way too high for 24x7.


----------



## YoungChris

morph. said:


> ah okay sexy bench result but voltages definitely look way too high for 24x7.


I mean if all you do is bench 24/7 it's perfectly fine 😘
I do use the same hardware for gaming, tho I haven't exactly put any effort into doing a proper daily OC with them.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

IronAge said:


> Want a DR B-Dies Kit for M13A, 4000C16 TridentZ Neo should be fine ? Any toughts ? dont want to spend much more than ~300 bucks.


Try 4000 16-16 32GTZNA


----------



## Geekounet

morph. said:


> Not very familiar with GB boards, however, is it running the latest bios version?
> Are you running any LLC?
> Show us your VF point offset curve - this is baked into your CPU based on quality and its ability.
> EG:
> View attachment 2512738
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO with 11th gen CPUs can handle a fair bit more vcore/corevid than what 10th gen and prior are caveat I haven't really optimised my vcore/corevid voltages yet but this runs stable 24x7 for me and thermals/tjmax are totally acceptable.
> 
> View attachment 2512735



@morph. i've finally found this settings, it's been on the adaptive voltage mode and selection instead of legacy, what does that mean & how i can setup this to be fine?


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> My 10700k keeps degrading so I'm gonna buy a new CPU today. For gaming, would a 10900K or 11900K be better? I will be overclocking the core and memory as far as possible. I plan to keep my Z490 Unify, which has served me well.


If you are sticking with the z490 Unify I would go 10900k.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> If you are sticking with the z490 Unify I would go 10900k.


I already bought the 11700K and currently testing it. 10900K was $100 more.


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> I already bought the 11700K and currently testing it. 10900K was $100 more.


Ok, I just used an 11900k in a z490 Unify for a little bit and it "messy". Maybe they have a better bios out now this was a month or two ago.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> Ok, I just used an 11900k in a z490 Unify for a little bit and it "messy". Maybe they have a better bios out now this was a month or two ago.


Good to know. Can you give me some pointers as to what I should set in the bios? So far it can run Cinebench R20 at 5.0 all core at 1.35v set in the bios with auto LLC.


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> Good to know. Can you give me some pointers as to what I should set in the bios? So far it can run Cinebench R20 at 5.0 all core at 1.35v set in the bios with auto LLC.


I didn't mess with it enough, I was more checking mem OC and it was not good for that with 2x16 b die with 11900k. I know in the z490 and z590 Apex the CPU could do 52/46 all core and in the Unify I could only get 51/45 stable. 

For mem PPD was opposite of CML, PPD 1 gave 3-4ns lower latency in the z490 Unify.


----------



## Waspinator

morph. said:


> they are neck and neck mostly but the benefit of 11900k IMHO is the stability over 10th gen which has a fair bit of random crashing and pcie 4.0 is a nice sweetener. I went from a 10850k to a 11900k for the sake of stability.


Where does this show, game crashing to desktop? That's CPU related? Probably many different things, I think mainly how stable the game code is in first place.
Just OC-ing RAM for the last 6 months (7 different kits of course) I don't think a crash or 2 per month will be a problem for me.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

My 11700K is shaping up to be stable at 5.0 all core on my Z490 Unify. Think it’s a keeper?


----------



## Geekounet

0451 said:


> My 11700K is shaping up to be stable at 5.0 all core on my Z490 Unify. Think it’s a keeper?


Can you share your settings please? i want to find what i did wrong


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Geekounet said:


> Can you share your settings please? i want to find what i did wrong


I've had this CPU for about an hour now, so settings aren't dialed in yet. I am just running all core fixed with a multiplier of 50, XMP and 1.35v for core, IO, and SA. Everything else is auto. I still need to dial in the memory and dial down the voltages.


----------



## Geekounet

Can't run mine at 5.0Ghz all cores as low voltage as yours, i'll need something like 1.450 at least to reach the 5Ghz and i'm having issues with temps this way...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Geekounet said:


> Can't run mine at 5.0Ghz all cores as low voltage as yours, i'll need something like 1.450 at least to reach the 5Ghz and i'm having issues with temps this way...


I'm on water so there's that. This CPU seems like a keeper, so I'll be going direct die. I'm a little disappointed it can't do 5.2 like some of the 11900Ks, but at least it was only $360.


----------



## Geekounet

0451 said:


> I'm on water so there's that. This CPU seems like a keeper, so I'll be going direct die. I'm a little disappointed it can't do 5.2 like some of the 11900Ks, but at least it was only $360.


Oh on a custom loop? nice one


----------



## IronAge

0451 said:


> My 11700K is shaping up to be stable at 5.0 all core on my Z490 Unify. Think it’s a keeper?


How much VC does it need @ full load ?
It is actually very hard to resell 11700K for a reasonable price.
I got around three at the moment and it is almost mission impossible to get more than >= 350€ for them.
i got my first 11900K incoming @ friday

my SP69 11700K is on air cooling ATM and needs close to 1.3V for non-AVX Prime95 Custom FFT on M13H.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

IronAge said:


> How much VC does it need @ full load ?
> It is actually very hard to resell 11700K for a reasonable price.
> I got around three at the moment and it is almost mission impossible to get more than >= 350€ for them.
> i got my first 11900K incoming @ friday
> 
> my SP69 11700K is on air cooling ATM and needs close to 1.3V for npn-AVX Prime95 Custom FFT on M13H.


My motherboard does not have die sense, but it seems to like 1.38v set in the bios at auto LLC.

I paid $360 at Microcenter so 350 euros would be a profit. I have 15 days to return so I have some time to decide If I want to keep it and go direct die. If I get $200 a year from now I’ll be happy.

What was the stable all core frequency for each of your chips?


----------



## sugi0lover

I tested my 24/7 setting with Prime95 small FFTs (AVX Off). My goal was 2 hr pass, so I opened a couple of monitoring apps to record video 3 min before 2 Hrs..
Because of that, I got an error at 1 hr 57min. Dang it!
Anyway here is my setup.


----------



## morph.

Geekounet said:


> @morph. i've finally found this settings, it's been on the adaptive voltage mode and selection instead of legacy, what does that mean & how i can setup this to be fine?
> 
> View attachment 2512934
> View attachment 2512934


Need to see what the fused in voltage parameters are for each offset point


----------



## Geekounet

morph. said:


> Need to see what the fused in voltage parameters are for each offset point





morph. said:


> Need to see what the fused in voltage parameters are for each offset point


Gonna check this out, thanks


----------



## morph.

Geekounet said:


> Gonna check this out, thanks


Ultimately that determines the quality of your chip and is indicative of what sort of baked-in voltage requirements are needed for the clock speed.


----------



## Geekounet

morph. said:


> Ultimately that determines the quality of your chip and is indicative of what sort of baked-in voltage requirements are needed for the clock speed.


Can't find it :/


----------



## morph.

Geekounet said:


> Can't find it :/


There might be some windows apps that can do it but I don't use them

something maybe like intel extre tuning utility or gb might have some in windows oc application that "might" display it else limitation of a lower-tier motherboard.


----------



## Geekounet

morph. said:


> There might be some windows apps that can do it but I don't use them
> 
> something maybe like intel extre tuning utility or gb might have some in windows oc application that "might" display it else limitation of a lower-tier motherboard.


I'll try intel xt tuning and see if i can find it, thanks


----------



## Geekounet

Here's what i've found on XTU


----------



## morph.

Geekounet said:


> Here's what i've found on XTU
> 
> View attachment 2512979
> View attachment 2512979


scan it....


----------



## Geekounet

Here's the results...


----------



## morph.

48x @ 1.302v is pretty high as a comparison mines 48x @ 1.214v (sp85).

Can you see higher voltage/clock points?


----------



## Geekounet

morph. said:


> 48x @ 1.302v is pretty high as a comparison mines 48x @ 1.214v (sp85).
> 
> Can you see higher voltage/clock points?


No it stops at 48 :/


----------



## YoungChris

Arlina said:


> MAG B560M BAZOOKA
> 
> 
> Powered by Intel 11th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr, USB 3.2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New rocket lake microcode(rev 40) come this motherboard.
> 
> - CPU feature and performance improvement.


will try to get a bios


----------



## xl_digit

new improvments with G.SKILL - Trident Z Royal Elite


----------



## eeroo94

What's the difference between 1N and N:1 command rate setting?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

eeroo94 said:


> What's the difference between 1N and N:1 command rate setting?


1N=(N:1=3)


----------



## menko2

xl_digit said:


> new improvments with G.SKILL - Trident Z Royal Elite
> 
> View attachment 2512991


Has the royal elite another kind of heat dissipation method than the trident z?


----------



## Waspinator

xl_digit said:


> new improvments with G.SKILL - Trident Z Royal Elite


Have you tried something on lower voltage, like 1.52V, does it do anything more than 4266 16-16-16 or 4400 17-17-17?
Or put it more simple, where does 4000 14-15-15 shine? Except for 14-15-15, that's a given.


----------



## Jwick

has anyone done 4.8cache without bclk. and at what voltage and was it on ambient cooling?i have seen most people doing 4.5 and some doing 4.6 so wondering whether that is a hard wall on 11900k


----------



## Groove2013

@Jwick hard wall.


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> has anyone done 4.8cache without bclk. and at what voltage and was it on ambient cooling?i have seen most people doing 4.5 and some doing 4.6 so wondering whether that is a hard wall on 11900k


I have no problem running [email protected], Cache 4.8Ghz without bclk.
Cache 4.5Ghz needs 1.370v, but cache 4.8Ghz needs 1.460v


----------



## YoungChris

Z590 Unify-X bios A0Z





E7D38IMS.A0Z.zip







drive.google.com




to my knowledge, it uses whatever the newest microcode is


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> I have no problem running [email protected], Cache 4.8Ghz without bclk.
> Cache 4.5Ghz needs 1.370v, but cache 4.8Ghz needs 1.460v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2513009


oh interesting whats the highest cache u can go using BCLK as well with safe vcore for daily.lets say 1.55v with llc 5( i feel thats safe daily for a strong custom loop).looks like u got a golden chip.is it prime small stable/linpack extreme stable (without avx and avx 512 no one needs that ).whats your sp rating?


----------



## Lownage

xl_digit said:


> new improvments with G.SKILL - Trident Z Royal Elite


Did you do any gaming benchmarks? 
Whats the difference between DR 3733cl14/15 and 3800c13 ? Is it worth the upgrade? 
I´m tempted to buy this kit now


----------



## xl_digit

@Lownage i haven´t done any gaming benchmarks, i just optimised the timings at the moment.
the diffrence between 3733cl14 and 3800cl13 is only 2ns in latency, i don´t think there is a significant value to spend the money.

i have used a 3800C14 G.Skill GTNZ Kit bevor, which is also a great Kit to use for Gear1
the only diffrence was, the 4000C14 GTES Elite Kit was able to run CL13 without Ramtest errors.

Running 3800 instead of 3733 is only CPU or Voltage dependend.


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> oh interesting whats the highest cache u can go using BCLK as well with safe vcore for daily.lets say 1.55v with llc 5( i feel thats safe daily for a strong custom loop).looks like u got a golden chip.is it prime small stable/linpack extreme stable (without avx and avx 512 no one needs that ).whats your sp rating?


My 11900K's SP is only 89. 5.3/4.5 is prime small stable and I haven't tested 5.3/4.8 with prime yet. I don't use BCLK because it also affects my stable ram setting. As you mentioned, 1.55v is okay for daily gaming, but I plan to keep my core voltage under 1.40v, so I stick to my 5.3/4.5 setup.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Here are my results so far playing with Gear 1 settings. RAM kit is 2x8 Patriot Viper Steel 4400. Any suggestions on what to adjust? This motherboard had high latency with my 10700K and the trend continues with the 11700K.

VDIMM is 1.50v


----------



## morph.

Which one of these DR Bdie is better binned do you think if I'm only willing to go to around 1.55v vdimm? I want to extract the maximum for Gear 1 and Gear 2 on air.

F4-4000C16D-32GTRSA-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. 16-16-16-36 @1.40v (gut feel this is better due to lower voltages)

F4-4400C17D-32GTRS-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. 17-18-18-38-1.50v

Funny enough the 4400 is $60 AUD more expensive.

Not sure if my F4-3600c14D-16GTRS 14-15-15-35, 1.45v is my problem falling short of my expectations.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

4 DIMM wasn't as bad as I expected. Am I correct that tRAS = tCL+ tRCD + CR? Are there any other timing dependencies.


----------



## Arni90

0451 said:


> 4 DIMM wasn't as bad as I expected. Am I correct that tRAS = tCL+ tRCD + CR? Are there any other timing dependencies.
> 
> View attachment 2513114


tRAS will scale down to tRCD + tRTP, no point in keeping it high unless you need the added stability.


----------



## fernlander

sugi0lover said:


> I have no problem running [email protected], Cache 4.8Ghz without bclk.
> Cache 4.5Ghz needs 1.370v, but cache 4.8Ghz needs 1.460v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2513009


How important is cache frequency to gaming?

For a 11600k, I very quickly adjusted vcore and CPU multiplier and set XMP1 with gear 1 set for G.Skill 3800 CL14 but at 3600. I got the second highest score for multi core and the 3rd highest score for single core in Geekbench 5 for this CPU but cache was automatically set to 41.

Would aiming for a higher cache multiplier increase my gaming performance?

With Intel XTU I played with it and it set 48x cache. But it sent insane voltage up to 1.6v during its benchmark. Also there I have a score second only to an engineering sample. But it seems that test needs higher voltage to be stable. I used an offset to curb the voltage and lost maybe 10 points in Intel XTU benchmark but the core kept comfortably under 1.5v. It did not change my ranking as I was still comfortably 20-30 points above the next result. 

Then I retested geekbench 5 and got roughly the same score in Geekbench.

Anyway I care more about gaming and Geekbench seems to be more of a general use benchmark.

There are so many parameters we can change but i’m not sure where to spend the vcore budget.


----------



## sugi0lover

fernlander said:


> How important is cache frequency to gaming?
> 
> For a 11600k, I very quickly adjusted vcore and CPU multiplier and set XMP1 with gear 1 set for G.Skill 3800 CL14 but at 3600. I got the second highest score for multi core and the 3rd highest score for single core in Geekbench 5 for this CPU but cache was automatically set to 41.
> 
> Would aiming for a higher cache multiplier increase my gaming performance?
> 
> With Intel XTU I played with it and it set 48x cache. But it sent insane voltage up to 1.6v during its benchmark. Also there I have a score second only to an engineering sample. But it seems that test needs higher voltage to be stable. I used an offset to curb the voltage and lost maybe 10 points in Intel XTU benchmark but the core kept comfortably under 1.5v. It did not change my ranking as I was still comfortably 20-30 points above the next result.
> 
> Then I retested geekbench 5 and got roughly the same score in Geekbench.
> 
> Anyway I care more about gaming and Geekbench seems to be more of a general use benchmark.
> 
> There are so many parameters we can change but i’m not sure where to spend the vcore budget.


From my experience, 1 cache up = 0.2~0.3 latency down.
I don't think that small latency change will affect gaming. For me cache 45 is comfortable zone.


----------



## fernlander

sugi0lover said:


> From my experience, 1 cache up = 0.02~0.03 latency down.
> I don't think that small latency change will affect gaming. For me cache 45 is comfortable zone.



I'm actually at 41 even though XTU says 49 it reports 41. 45 crashes immediately so I would have to increase voltage to run it. Using XTU negative offset Vcore to a point it does not thermal throttle while running the XTU benchmark yields the highest score on XTU outside the ES chip.

This MSI Torpedo Z590 has "gaming boost" for CPU and for XMP. Simply leaving XMP on setting gear 1 - 3600 and CPU overclocking (game boost) off - just default - it hits 1.6v! on it's own and clocks all cores dynamically to 5.1GHz and hits it in 3 cores under load pretty consistently and at moments even 4 cores. It just decides for itself dynamically. Enabling CPU overclocking in the bios actually sets a low (default?) Vcore of 1.36v and does something like 49, 49, 47, 47, 47, 47.

It's sort of crazy that turning off what seems like the auto OC button is what makes it OC to the max by itself. Hitting the OC button simply lets you tune it in the BIOS, otherwise insane OC out of the box.

It seems like the trend is for CPUs to pretty much OC themselves as best they can given their Silicon quality. Seems RAM tweaking is the final frontier.


----------



## Geekounet

Thanks everyone for your help & answers, two days ago i've wanted to clean my cpu & cooler & re do the thermal paste and i don't even know how i bent my socket pins so i'm giving up, gonna sell my 11700K & get back to my 9700KF...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Geekounet said:


> Thanks everyone for your help & answers, two days ago i've wanted to clean my cpu & cooler & re do the thermal paste and i don't even know how i bent my socket pins so i'm giving up, gonna sell my 11700K & get back to my 9700KF...


I sold my last motherboard, a Maximus IX Formula, for $50 on OCN because the x16 PCIE slot wasn't working. The buyer found that the pins were bent, meticulously bent them back, and it worked. If you want his help, PM Jaguarbamf.


----------



## Geekounet

Thanks a lot @0451, i already tried yesterday following this video 



 it's a hell of a job, i also managed to find a digital microscope to help me out with no success, i'm gonna retry one or two more times and if i don't manage to get them back i'll give up & sell my i7, thanks again


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Geekounet said:


> Thanks a lot @0451, i already tried yesterday following this video
> 
> 
> 
> it's a hell of a job, i also managed to find a digital microscope to help me out with no success, i'm gonna retry one or two more times and if i don't manage to get them back i'll give up & sell my i7, thanks again


Good luck! I have pretty good eyesight but not good enough to bend pins, which is why I gave up on my Z270 board. If I bent a pin on my garbage Z490 Unify, I would definitely give up. However, if I had a Z590 board, I would try pretty hard.


----------



## Geekounet

0451 said:


> Good luck! I have pretty good eyesight but not good enough to bend pins, which is why I gave up on my Z270 board. If I bent a pin on my garbage Z490 Unify, I would definitely give up. However, if I had a Z590 board, I would try pretty hard.


That's why i'm gonna try hard again because it's a Z590 & i don't have money to buy another one, that's why i've been thinking to get back to my Z390 & 9700KF that i haven't sold yet...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Hall of Fame here I come









Intel Core i9 11900K @ 1969.72 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[msj1xg] Validated Dump by OLDFATSHEEP (2021-06-05 08:21:12) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX - RAM: 8192 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## sugi0lover

Here is my max summer gaming setting with AC on.

CPU : [email protected] / Cache 4.5Ghz
RAM : 5000-17-17-17-28-265-1T (Gear 2)
Voltages
 Cpu Core : 1.480v
Dram : 1.605v 
IO : 1.050v / SA : 1.450v / Mem OC IO : 1.400v


----------



## morph.

sugi0lover said:


> Here is my max summer gaming setting with AC on.
> 
> CPU : [email protected] / Cache 4.5Ghz
> RAM : 5000-17-17-17-28-265-1T (Gear 2)
> Voltages
> Cpu Core : 1.480v
> Dram : 1.605v
> IO : 1.050v / SA : 1.450v / Mem OC IO : 1.400v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2513218


that's a nice low vcore is it delidded? what sp/vf curve is that? HT on or off?


----------



## sugi0lover

morph. said:


> that's a nice low vcore is it delidded? what sp/vf curve is that? HT on or off?


Thanks for your comment! It's not delidded. SP 89/LLC7 and HT on as you can see from cpuz (Threads 16).


----------



## satinghostrider

Still have a bit more work to tidy up and do a proper leak test. I have not updated the bios yet and shows 0506. I'll update the bios maybe tomorrow and perhaps get a better idea of the SP rating.


----------



## Geekounet

R.I.P Z590, i've tried hard all day long and finally got all the pins (supposedly) back and 2 breaked ones, welcome back Z390...










Yeah, this one is also power hungry, had no luck on my 2 last CPU's...


----------



## IronAge

Geekounet said:


> R.I.P Z590, i've tried hard all day long and finally got all the pins (supposedly) back and 2 breaked ones, welcome back Z390...


You should have let sb else do it with more experience in fixing pins, even broken pins can be fixed by pros and the socket may be replaced as well.


----------



## GtiJason

Geekounet said:


> Thanks everyone for your help & answers, two days ago i've wanted to clean my cpu & cooler & re do the thermal paste and i don't even know how i bent my socket pins so i'm giving up, gonna sell my 11700K & get back to my 9700KF...


You should contact Gigabyte and explain your situation. I'd call the Service Center first and
Just say something like this . . .

Let them know that your lga 1200 socket has a few bent pins
and that you most likely did it on accident when trying to troubleshoot high cpu temps and improper cpu boosting / behavoir in the bios
with the help of some PC enthusiasts at a well known forum etc.
Long story short you ended up getting frustrated trying to find (name of settings here) after previous settings were of no help, and as a last ditch effort you went to reseat your cpu and check for proper coverage of Thermal Interface Material / paste and then No Post or whatever.
Just be honest and ask if you can pay to have the socket repaired or replaced since it is a fairly new product under warranty. Not sure they do this still but if not the service center should be able to direct you to a reputable shop that can.

This used to be between $50-85 for under warranty boards but that was other brands and a few years ago

Service Center
GIGABYTE USA Branch
Address: 17358 Railroad Street City of Industry, CA 91748
TEL: 1-626-8549338 Option 4

GIGABYTE and AORUS Product Warranty Information


RMA-Login



User Support

Check warranty status by SN
Request warranty service online
Request and check RMA status









Earn Points, Unlock Badges. Get Rewards. | GIGABYTE AORUS Rewards Program


Make the most of your membership — enjoy games, invite friends, earn points, get rewards, and more. Get 5 AORUS Points immediately by using my Invite Code when you sign up!




member.aorus.com





Warranty Term: 3 years


----------



## Geekounet

IronAge said:


> You should have let sb else do it with more experience in fixing pins, even broken pins can be fixed by pros and the socket may be replaced as well.


I couldn't find anyone, here in Algeria it's hard to find specialized people unfortunately, i was only able to try an electronician or something but not someone used to mobo's that's why i decided to try myself...


----------



## Geekounet

GtiJason said:


> You should contact Gigabyte and explain your situation. I'd call the Service Center first and
> Just say something like this . . .
> 
> Let them know that your lga 1200 socket has a few bent pins
> and that you most likely did it on accident when trying to troubleshoot high cpu temps and improper cpu boosting / behavoir in the bios
> with the help of some PC enthusiasts at a well known forum etc.
> Long story short you ended up getting frustrated trying to find (name of settings here) after previous settings were of no help, and as a last ditch effort you went to reseat your cpu and check for proper coverage of Thermal Interface Material / paste and then No Post or whatever.
> Just be honest and ask if you can pay to have the socket repaired or replaced since it is a fairly new product under warranty. Not sure they do this still but if not the service center should be able to direct you to a reputable shop that can.
> 
> This used to be between $50-85 for under warranty boards but that was other brands and a few years ago
> 
> Service Center
> GIGABYTE USA Branch
> Address: 17358 Railroad Street City of Industry, CA 91748
> TEL: 1-626-8549338 Option 4
> 
> GIGABYTE and AORUS Product Warranty Information
> 
> 
> RMA-Login
> 
> 
> 
> User Support
> 
> Check warranty status by SN
> Request warranty service online
> Request and check RMA status
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earn Points, Unlock Badges. Get Rewards. | GIGABYTE AORUS Rewards Program
> 
> 
> Make the most of your membership — enjoy games, invite friends, earn points, get rewards, and more. Get 5 AORUS Points immediately by using my Invite Code when you sign up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> member.aorus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warranty Term: 3 years



Yes i'm gonna try this, i remember a video Linus did about this, the manufacturer asked him 350$ to repair a 400$ board, thanks


----------



## IronAge

@Geekounet

I know sb who does this as a small business, for rather small money within germany, still you woud have to pay for shipping both ways.

post a picture of the socket, as close as possible if intrested. the replacement itself is about 45€.

he owns a rework station


----------



## Geekounet

IronAge said:


> @Geekounet
> 
> I know sb who does this as a small business, for rather small money within germany, still you woud have to pay for shipping both ways.
> 
> post a picture of the socket, as close as possible if intrested. the replacement itself is about 45€.
> 
> he owns a rework station



Nice man, this is quit interesting, btw i noticed (with the digital microscope) that the socket had some cracks in it and that's what led the pins to bend, i opened a ticket at gigabyte, when i'll have an answer i'll decide rather i repair or not, i'll send you a D.M (if you don't mind) if i decide to go with the guy you told me about, by the way it's a straight socket replacement that i'll need...

Thanks a lot anyway


----------



## Geekounet

Here's what i wrote in my support ticket:

Hi,

I received my motherboard 2 weeks ago alongside my new CPU, i was so excited about it, i went to dedicated forums (overclock.net) because i was having a lot of temps issues because of the voltage drawn by my CPU, i was looking to set my bios right to get proper temps & a good overcloking capabilties, after trying a lot of settings nothing happened and i got so frustrated then i decided to remove everything re apply the thermal paste, unfortunately the case fell out (about 5cm) i thought nothing happened because it wasn't that high and the board was properly mounted into the case, unfortunately when i tried to reboot nothing happened, i removed the CPU again and noticed that some pins were not aligned, i decided to buy a cheap digital microscope & try to solve this, unfortunately after many tries nothing changed, two days ago i noticed the real problem, due to the fall the CPU socket had many cracks, that's what bent the CPU at first (i was sure that i didn't forced to replace the CPU so now i had the real story behind the bent pins), my question is simple, is there any kind of repair for this? are you able to replace the CPU Socket?

Best regards,


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Can anybody with an 11900K/11700K run 5.2 ghz+ all core without an Asus M13A? I've tried 3 CPUs so far with my Z490 Unify and none can complete Cinebench above 5.0 all core. With Auto LLC, my 11700K needed a bios voltage of 1.38V, my first 11900K needed 1.35V, and my second 11900K needs 1.28V. I know I need a Z590 board, but I don't want to spend $600 on an Apex.




Geekounet said:


> Here's what i wrote in my support ticket:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I received my motherboard 2 weeks ago alongside my new CPU, i was so excited about it, i went to dedicated forums (overclock.net) because i was having a lot of temps issues because of the voltage drawn by my CPU, i was looking to set my bios right to get proper temps & a good overcloking capabilties, after trying a lot of settings nothing happened and i got so frustrated then i decided to remove everything re apply the thermal paste, unfortunately the case fell out (about 5cm) i thought nothing happened because it wasn't that high and the board was properly mounted into the case, unfortunately when i tried to reboot nothing happened, i removed the CPU again and noticed that some pins were not aligned, i decided to buy a cheap digital microscope & try to solve this, unfortunately after many tries nothing changed, two days ago i noticed the real problem, due to the fall the CPU socket had many cracks, that's what bent the CPU at first (i was sure that i didn't forced to replace the CPU so now i had the real story behind the bent pins), my question is simple, is there any kind of repair for this? are you able to replace the CPU Socket?
> 
> Best regards,


I think this is a good note. Hopefully they process as a standard RMA and not damaged caused by the user. Keep us posted!


----------



## Geekounet

0451 said:


> I think this is a good note. Hopefully they process as a standard RMA and not damaged caused by the user. Keep us posted!


Let's hope even if i don't think it will be the case


----------



## morph.

0451 said:


> Can anybody with an 11900K/11700K run 5.2 ghz+ all core without an Asus M13A? I've tried 3 CPUs so far with my Z490 Unify and none can complete Cinebench above 5.0 all core. With Auto LLC, my 11700K needed a bios voltage of 1.38V, my first 11900K needed 1.35V, and my second 11900K needs 1.28V. I know I need a Z590 board, but I don't want to spend $600 on an Apex.


Yep Maximus 12 (Z490) Formula with an SP85 11900k with LLC at 7.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Geekounet said:


> Here's what i wrote in my support ticket:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I received my motherboard 2 weeks ago alongside my new CPU, i was so excited about it, i went to dedicated forums (overclock.net) because i was having a lot of temps issues because of the voltage drawn by my CPU, i was looking to set my bios right to get proper temps & a good overcloking capabilties, after trying a lot of settings nothing happened and i got so frustrated then i decided to remove everything re apply the thermal paste, unfortunately the case fell out (about 5cm) i thought nothing happened because it wasn't that high and the board was properly mounted into the case, unfortunately when i tried to reboot nothing happened, i removed the CPU again and noticed that some pins were not aligned, i decided to buy a cheap digital microscope & try to solve this, unfortunately after many tries nothing changed, two days ago i noticed the real problem, due to the fall the CPU socket had many cracks, that's what bent the CPU at first (i was sure that i didn't forced to replace the CPU so now i had the real story behind the bent pins), my question is simple, is there any kind of repair for this? are you able to replace the CPU Socket?
> 
> Best regards,





morph. said:


> Yep Maximus 12 (Z490) Formula with an SP85 11900k with LLC at 7.
> View attachment 2513371


is that just a cpu-z validation or is it actually stable at 5.2 all core?


----------



## morph.

0451 said:


> is that just a cpu-z validation or is it actually stable at 5.2 all core?


Stable with OCCT, Realbench, CBR20, CBR23. Haven't had a crash that is CPU related with this system. The only time I've crashed is when I'm pushing the envelope with my ram oc/timings and uncore ratio past 45x.

I assume you have the latest bios from your vendor*msi?


----------



## Geekounet

Here's the answer from Gigabyte:

Hi Sir

The warranty terms are dependent on your sale of contract and are what ever your supplier sold you. Please contact your supplier and they shall follow a standard RMA procedure and send the board to the local distributor for RMA service for you.

Best Regards,

GIGABYTE

My answer to this:

Hi,

Thank you for the quick answer, as you can see, this is not a standard warranty thing as the damage were caused by me (the fall of the case) so i don't think the seller will take it as a standard R.M.A, that's why i was asking you directly, to see if i can pay to have the socket repaired or replaced since it is a fairly new product under warranty.

Best regards,


----------



## Jwick

i am planning to get some sticks but confused between whether to choose ripjaw version or trident version. i heard people say rgb memory isnt good also heard people say trident memory kits have 10layer pcb while ripjaws have 8. i have never seen a ripjaw which has 10 layer. i also dont care abt the heat spreader or the looks i am going to remove and replace with a custom full copper heatsink.


----------



## bscool

@Jwick go with the RPJ. Some of the highest clocking kits on this forum are 3200c14 RPJ kits water cooled. 

Also from what I have read online the RPJ are easier to remove the heat spreader. Never removed them myself so that is second hand info but make sense since they/RPJ are pretty flimsy and you and tell they are not attached as well as Royal, Neo kits when you look at them in person. The RPJ heat spreader is shorter to is doesn't fully cover and should be a little easier to get off.


----------



## Jwick

i have removed RPJ heatsinks a lot, so have some practice. have never removed the trident z


----------



## Jwick

this is in stock right now
G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C14D-32GTZN - Newegg.com
nvm this is optimized for Ryzen system


----------



## Geekounet

Jwick said:


> this is in stock right now
> G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C14D-32GTZN - Newegg.com
> nvm this is optimized for Ryzen system



It's maybe optimized for Ryzen but my Trident Neo Z works just fine with my intels


----------



## bscool

Optimized for Ryzen is a marketing term. Gaming ram is better than Ryzen optimized  RGB Ryzen is close to gaming RGB RAM though...........

Being serious Ryzen Optimized means nothing. It can be used on Intel without issue.


----------



## Arni90

bscool said:


> Optimized for Ryzen is a marketing term. Gaming ram is better than Ryzen optimized  RGB Ryzen is close to gaming RGB RAM though...........
> 
> Being serious Ryzen Optimized means nothing. It can be used on Intel without issue.


But what about Ryzen Optimized RGB Gaming RAM?

That said, if you're buying memory for RKL and planning to run XMP, get a 3600 MHz kit.


----------



## jimpsar

Hello guyz
Would appreciate an opinion, i am in between 11900 non and 11900k. Difference in price is around 110€. Playing in 1440p /144 with 6900xt, MBoard Z490 Asus Hero. Do you think for gaming purposes only 11900 worth it or should I go for 11900k?
Thank you very much


----------



## spin5000

This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.

Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.

Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


----------



## Groove2013

The guy must certainly be angry, because nobody wanted to simply provide him screens of their BIOS settings so he could simply copy/paste them and voila, without any knowledge and efforts.


----------



## Geekounet

spin5000 said:


> This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
> Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.
> 
> Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.
> 
> Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


l'm new to this forum and when i started trying to overclock my 11700K (before my mobo accident) all the users in here tried to help me out wiith my power hungry chip and they also tried to help me out with the so called accident on my mobo so i don't know what you're talking about, have a cold soda (or whatever you like to drink) and relax


----------



## menko2

spin5000 said:


> This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
> Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.
> 
> Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.
> 
> Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


Maybe from all the users here that are talking about 11700k, 11900k, overclocking and RAM you should notice how important RAM overclock is in this 11th gen 

Even if you put the 11900k at 8.5ghz it won't matter if you don't have a gear 1 or gear 2 RAM accordingly.

Just relax, read and learn that we all are learning in the same way how this 11th gen works and RAM is very important.

Don't get upset, rocket lake is not being that easy (because of RAM gear most of the time).


----------



## Arni90

spin5000 said:


> This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
> Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.
> 
> Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.
> 
> Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


The reason there's little talk about core overclocking is because it's very underwhelming. You're looking at a ~5% increase in performance after power limits are lifted, and that's simply nothing exciting to talk about.


----------



## morph.

spin5000 said:


> This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
> Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.
> 
> Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.
> 
> Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


Plenty of stuff in here about CPU overclocking but it's pretty trivial and easy hence not much to talk about.

The biggest change to overclocking with 11th gen is RAM and discussing overclocking ram in a general ram thread would just get completely lost and benchmark/results would just not be comparable. This thread has been perfectly fine.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> The guy must certainly be angry, because nobody wanted to simply provide him screens of their BIOS settings so he could simply copy/paste them and voila, without any knowledge and efforts.


Maybe he just got an i9 with only 3733 MHz gear 1 max?? 

But TBH, core OC for this generation is all about temp. 10c diff in max temp can make a real difference in core OC.

The lid of 11th gen is not flat. Polish the lid would decrease around 15c in load temp.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The lid of 11th gen is not flat. Polish the lid would decrease around 15c in load temp.


The thought of doing that and kissing my warranty goodbye is too hard for me to do same with de-lidding the sucker... My custom loop will get another 360 rad in it in the future so a total of 3x360s when I can be arsed to pull my rig apart and redo the hardline tubing, wont lie waiting for my active backplate for my 3090 to do it all at once.

I've always thought intel should just release the K series or an enthusiast series without an IHS!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> The thought of doing that and kissing my warranty goodbye is too hard for me to do same with de-lidding the sucker... My custom loop will get another 360 rad in it in the future so a total of 3x360s when I can be arsed to pull my rig apart and redo the hardline tubing, wont lie waiting for my active backplate for my 3090 to do it all at once.
> 
> I've always thought intel should just release the K series or an enthusiast series without an IHS!


That was decades ago on Pentium 3 and lots of cores were damaged by the coolers. Maybe later they put lids on to avoid RMAs...

The center part of the lid is a lot higher than the rest, which decreases the contact areas a lot. This is valid on both viet batches and cn batches chips.

I would do the polishing if I want extreme cooling. My friend has done the polishing, under a 420 custom loop (cpu only), at 1.4V socket sense, P95 avx load temp is only 60+C.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That was decades ago on Pentium 3 and lots of cores were damaged by the coolers. Maybe later they put lids on to avoid RMAs...
> 
> The center part of the lid is a lot higher than the rest, which decreases the contact areas a lot. This is valid on both viet batches and cn batches chips.
> 
> I would do the polishing if I want extreme cooling. My friend has done the polishing, under a 420 custom loop (cpu only), at 1.4V socket sense, P95 avx load temp is only 60+C.


Yeah I remember the good ol days of direct die no issues what so ever for me and the direct die for gpu's has always been nice even now.

Mmm didn't realise it was 10 degs though guess a good ol lapping is handy or just delid the 11900k carefully and get a copper ihs and liquid metal in between least it can be switched back to maybe not void warranty and or decrease resale value too much.


----------



## Nizzen

spin5000 said:


> This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
> Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.
> 
> Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.
> 
> Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


Performance gains is in the memory oc. 5,2ghz to 5,4ghz oc isn't many % gains


----------



## encrypted11

The IHS is absolutely necessary. Unless you can get the mounting pressure on the socket down to Intel Spec, many direct die jobs do have decreased memory OC capability with the memory and PHY pins from poorer signal quality.


----------



## Nizzen

encrypted11 said:


> The IHS is absolutely necessary. Unless you can get the mounting pressure on the socket down to Intel Spec, many direct die jobs do have decreased memory OC capability with the memory and PHY pins from poorer signal quality.


Never seen any of the problem you are writing down....
Supercool computer direct die, direct in socket is perfect 

Almost too good performance


----------



## pipes

encrypted11 said:


> The IHS is absolutely necessary. Unless you can get the mounting pressure on the socket down to Intel Spec, many direct die jobs do have decreased memory OC capability with the memory and PHY pins from poorer signal quality.


??????¿????????

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## jimpsar

Hello guyz, 
2 days with 11900k have been reading over 70 pages and still cannot find a vital option for it. My cpu SP is 50 . I know it is pretty bad. 
I have XII Hero Z490, gskill 4266cl19 bdie 16gb 
Found a good setup 3733 16 15 35 Gear 1 atm with cpu all auto. 
SA 1.27
Vmem 1.32
Dram 1.52

Tried 5.1 all core with 1.35 volt and it seems good for now however losing the single boost of 5.3-5.2,. 
Cpuid is 692 @5.1 [email protected] [email protected] on

Tried also per core but don't know how much voltage should I put in vcore and if I have to use manual, offset or adaptive? 
Any guide / help would be much appreciated, I am pretty confused with 11th gen and how it works. 
THANK YOU! 



P. S. Fore reference In 1440p was getting 188fps in Sottr with, 6900xt and 10850k @5.1
Now I get 181 with 11900k. Thought would be at least couple fps higher. 

P. S 2 with 10850k ram was 4266 17 17 37


----------



## Arni90

11900K is slower in SotTR than 10th gen or AMD 5000, no way to fix it.

As for core OC, just use the V/F curve and set per core usage multipliers.


----------



## jimpsar

Arni90 said:


> 11900K is slower in SotTR than 10th gen or AMD 5000, no way to fix it.
> 
> As for core OC, just use the V/F curve and set per core usage multipliers.


Thank you for your answer, so in vcore voltage you keep it in auto then? Only from vf curve right?

Also whatever I tried I got pc freeze and reboot after 10-15 minutes


----------



## Arni90

jimpsar said:


> Thank you for your answer, so in vcore voltage you keep it in auto then? Only from vf curve right?
> 
> Also whatever I tried I got pc freeze and reboot after 10-15 minutes


Try this:

SVID behaviour trained
LLC5
Synch LLc with AC/DC loadline enabled


----------



## jimpsar

Arni90 said:


> Try this:
> 
> SVID behaviour trained
> LLC5
> Synch LLc with AC/DC loadline enabled


we ll do that thank you mate!

Currently my stable settings are
5.1 all core @ 1.35 llc7
Auto cache
SA 1.26
Dram Volt 1.52
Vmem volt 1.31
3733 16 15 36 1T Gear 1


----------



## morph.

Arni90 said:


> Try this:
> Synch LLc with AC/DC loadline enabled


Whats this setting do exactly?


----------



## 647994

.


----------



## GeneO

morph. said:


> Whats this setting do exactly?


I enabled it on my LLC5 adaptive and it had no effect. So I assumed it was only for LLC = Auto since it says it automatically adjusts LLC to match ac/dc loadline, which is what I assume it does in auto.


----------



## OCPG

What are some recommended safe ranges for VCCSA and VCCIO on a 11900k?

I'm scared because I enabled XMP and the auto values seemed crazy high.

Config: 11900k + MSI z490 Godlike + Corsair 3600mhz 4x8gb (CMW32GX4M4D3600C18)


----------



## YaqY

OCPG said:


> What are some recommended safe ranges for VCCSA and VCCIO on a 11900k?
> 
> I'm scared because I enabled XMP and the auto values seemed crazy high.
> 
> Config: 11900k + MSI z490 Godlike + Corsair 3600mhz 4x8gb (CMW32GX4M4D3600C18)


1.52System agent is spec, IO it is hard to give a solid number but i would not mind 1.35-1.40 Memory IO voltage. Tune down and see what your system is stable at.


----------



## 647994

.


----------



## cstkl1

Shinza said:


> Anyone with GIGABYTE Z590 mobo that can guide my through the OC steps then? The BIOS should be identical for the most part.


skaterbench has a rough oc youtube vid with giga tachyon. 

so use that as some basis.


----------



## 647994

.


----------



## Arni90

morph. said:


> Whats this setting do exactly?


It synchronizes the CPU's internal AC loadline when requesting VID with the VRM's DC loadline (adjusted by LLC modes).


----------



## YoungChris

Back to work with Rocket Lake and Gear 1:








I've found that the Z590 Dark is noticeably better at Gear 1 than the Z590 Unify-X, training both higher frequencies and much better RTLs. I also found that running high ring was easier to train but harder to boot. My IMC is definitely weak, 3733x102.1 trains but does not enter OS even with 1.65vsa.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> Back to work with Rocket Lake and Gear 1:
> View attachment 2514101
> 
> I've found that the Z590 Dark is noticeably better at Gear 1 than the Z590 Unify-X, training both higher frequencies and much better RTLs. I also found that running high ring was easier to train but harder to boot. My IMC is definitely weak, 3733x102.1 trains but does not enter OS even with 1.65vsa.


You can use CR2. CR doesn't make a significant difference in G1.


----------



## Arni90

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You can use CR2. CR doesn't make a significant difference in G1.


1T made a huge difference in PYPrime (a good 50 ms at least), and since SuperPI 32M @5GHZ is basically a test of your memory timings (and RTLs), I'm guessing CR1 will make a decent impact there as well.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Arni90 said:


> 1T made a huge difference in PYPrime (a good 50 ms at least), and since SuperPI 32M @5GHZ is basically a test of your memory timings (and RTLs), I'm guessing CR1 will make a decent impact there as well.


Yup but he just wants to boot 3733x102.1. Can give CR2 a try if he just needs that freq.


----------



## Seth2021

While i was playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, 11900k v-core values reach sometimes 1.45v to 1.47v. Is this normal ? But most of the time main value is over 1.4v ( on Microsoft flight simulator)
With latest beta i have stable 5.1ghz during all core process. 

Ai Overclock tuner - XMP I
Intel Adaptive boost - Enabled
Asus Multicore Enhancement - Enabled - Removed all limits.
All other Bios Settings to Default 

Bios: 0902 Beta 

Also another weird issue: While i was using photoshop or even Microsoft Defender scan suddenly ( and with out a reason) all cores are maxed out and reaching temps 85 to 90C. 
Never had this with previous stable bios.

Should i return back to 0702 ? 
thanks
Seth


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Yup but he just wants to boot 3733x102.1. Can give CR2 a try if he just needs that freq.


CR2 would be a pretty huge trade-off for such a small frequency increase. If I could raise bclk in Windows with this board, I might have more luck.
SuperPi is very sensitive to timing adjustment, even tertiary timings make a huge (multiple hundred millisecond) difference to this benchmark.


----------



## morph.

Arni90 said:


> It synchronizes the CPU's internal AC loadline when requesting VID with the VRM's DC loadline (adjusted by LLC modes).


Thanks, yeah, I recall using a similar setting like that for my 8700k.

Wasn't entirely sure there was a use case for it now with 10th/11th gen? And if so what does synchronising this setting help/do in the scheme of things? (e.g. CPU clock rate, Uncore clock rate, stability, etc...)


----------



## safedisk

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX Gear1 16G x2 Dual Rank B-DIE OC TEST
3866 14-14-14-28 2T TRFC 225 DRAM VOLTAGE 1.55v

Please refer to the screenshot for memory timing


----------



## D-EJ915

Amazon has some Tachyon boards in stock if anybody was wanting one. Amazon.com: GIGABYTE Z590 AORUS Tachyon (LGA 1200/ Intel/ Z590/ ATX/Triple M.2/ PCIe 4.0/ USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C/Intel WiFi 6E/ 2.5GbE LAN/Onboard Overclocking Kit/Motherboard): Computers & Accessories


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

F4-4000C14D-32GTES

3866 MHz 14-15-28, VDimm = 1.5V


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> F4-4000C14D-32GTES
> 
> 3866 MHz 14-15-28, VDimm = 1.5V
> 
> View attachment 2514334
> 
> 
> View attachment 2514335
> 
> 
> View attachment 2514336


Been looking for that kit seems very hard to get hold of.

Can the primaries go down further for that kit at 3866?

Also wondering how far gear 2 would go with it


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Been looking for that kit seems very hard to get hold of.
> 
> Can the primaries go down further for that kit at 3866?
> 
> Also wondering how far gear 2 would go with it


I just got this kit today. tRCD might need more effort to get low on this kit. It can run single channel 3866 14-14 1.52V on both sticks, but dual channel errored at the 2nd loop test 6. Will try later with gear 2.

This kit should be the best choice now. Other kits might be screened after this bin.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I just got this kit today. tRCD might need more effort to get low on this kit. It can run single channel 3866 14-14 1.52V on both sticks, but dual channel errored at the 2nd loop test 6. Will try later with gear 2.
> 
> This kit should be the best choice now. Other kits might be screened after this bin.


Yeah I've noticed some kits just refuse to run flat primaries stable even if its bdie...

I do wonder if the 2x16 4000c16 flat kit can run c14 flat at 3866 as its uses something like 1.45vdram so a bit of headroom when downclocking frequency and tightening the timings a tad.


----------



## Groove2013

4000 CL14 available in Germany.

Ripjaws V (496€): https://www.alternate.de/G-Skill/DI...tner=DeGeizhals&campaign=DDR4/G.Skill/1754138
Trident Z Neo (515€): https://www.alternate.de/G-Skill/DI...tner=DeGeizhals&campaign=DDR4/G.Skill/1754069


----------



## YaqY

morph. said:


> Yeah I've noticed some kits just refuse to run flat primaries stable even if its bdie...
> 
> I do wonder if the 2x16 4000c16 flat kit can run c14 flat at 3866 as its uses something like 1.45vdram so a bit of headroom when downclocking frequency and tightening the timings a tad.


You have to consider not all imc's will do TRCD 14 at 3866 In Gear 1 Stable. So even if the ram can the imc might not like it.


----------



## Astral85

Is anyone finding the beta 0909 BIOS giving worse performing RAM OC's?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Yeah I've noticed some kits just refuse to run flat primaries stable even if its bdie...
> 
> I do wonder if the 2x16 4000c16 flat kit can run c14 flat at 3866 as its uses something like 1.45vdram so a bit of headroom when downclocking frequency and tightening the timings a tad.


My 4000 16-16 kit won’t do 3866 14-14 even at 1.55V.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

DR 3866c13...it should just be limited by my IMC...


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> DR 3866c13...it should just be limited by my IMC...
> 
> View attachment 2514466
> 
> 
> View attachment 2514467


When I get back from vacation, I should probably try daily OC.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> When I get back from vacation, I should probably try daily OC.


Looking forward to the results


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

One more step...DR 4000 MHz 16-18 gear 1


----------



## domdtxdissar

How does rocketlake compare to cometlake in linpack xtreme ?








screenshot above is not mine, copied from other forum.


----------



## Astral85

Does anyone still use Taiphoon burner to verify their memory modules being b-die etc? Malwarebytes browser guard blocks the website as a Trojan. Are there alternatives?


----------



## Astral85

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> One more step...DR 4000 MHz 16-18 gear 1
> View attachment 2514497


Looks tight. Are you training the RTL's?


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> Does anyone still use Taiphoon burner to verify their memory modules being b-die etc? Malwarebytes browser guard blocks the website as a Trojan. Are there alternatives?


You know it's b-die if you can run 4000+ with sub 300 TRFC and sub c16


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Astral85 said:


> Looks tight. Are you training the RTL's?


Yes, I've enabled round trip training.


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> One more step...DR 4000 MHz 16-18 gear 1
> View attachment 2514497


Damn, that's nice!
Retail chip? Full ambient? Voltages? XMP timings working for daily? Can 1t boot, even if not fully stable?


----------



## pipeclock

Astral85 said:


> Does anyone still use Taiphoon burner to verify their memory modules being b-die etc? Malwarebytes browser guard blocks the website as a Trojan. Are there alternatives?


Which modules exactly you need to confirm?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> Damn, that's nice!
> Retail chip? Full ambient? Voltages? XMP timings working for daily? Can 1t boot, even if not fully stable?


Thanks mate!

XMP doesn't work...tRCD has to be 18 to run over 3 cycles. CPU is AIO cooled and ram is an 8 cm fan cooled.

I can only boot 1t up to 3733, but haven't tried higher volts for 3866 1t yet.

For 4000 atm I need io1=1.4V mcio=1.6V sa=1.65V

Edit: boxed retail chip


----------



## Astral85

Nizzen said:


> You know it's b-die if you can run 4000+ with sub 300 TRFC and sub c16


Well I remember using Taiphoon burner some time ago on my Corsair Dominator 3466 32GB kit and I'm fairly certain it reported Samsung b-die. However I can not run this kit higher than 3800Mhz.


----------



## Astral85

pipeclock said:


> Which modules exactly you need to confirm?


My kit is a bit of an oddball Corsair Dominator platinum RGB kit. It's a 32GB x 4 3466Mhz kit which is not easily found on Corsair's product pages.


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> My kit is a bit of an oddball Corsair Dominator platinum RGB kit. It's a 32GB x 4 3466Mhz kit which is not easily found on Corsair's product pages.


For corsair check the version number on the sticks, check what yours is here ram/ddr4 - overclocking.


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> My kit is a bit of an oddball Corsair Dominator platinum RGB kit. It's a 32GB x 4 3466Mhz kit which is not easily found on Corsair's product pages.


So what does the kit say on the sticker?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> So what does the kit say on the sticker?


No need. Consumer B-die can only be 16GB max. (Ex. asus DC ram)


----------



## Jwick

i have a question what heatsinks are compatible with a2 pcb dr sticks. i have bartxstore samsung bdie a2 heatsink unfortunately the nut is a bit too tall which leads to the copper bending inward and the memory chip on the side do not contact. tldr its a **** show.


----------



## Astral85

Nizzen said:


> So what does the kit say on the sticker?


Here we go.


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> Here we go.
> 
> View attachment 2514605


That is samsung bdie.


----------



## Astral85

YaqY said:


> That is samsung bdie.


How can you tell? Ver number?


----------



## YaqY

Astral85 said:


> How can you tell? Ver number?


Yep


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> No need. Consumer B-die can only be 16GB max. (Ex. asus DC ram)











F4-3200C14D-64GTZDC-(EOL) - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z RGB DC DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 64GB (2x32GB) Trident Z RGB DC (Double Capacity) series is a new class of high-capacity DDR4 memory, doubling the conventional 16GB module capacity with 16 memory IC chips to a whopping 32GB per module with 32 IC chips, substantially increasing...




www.gskill.com




Trident Z RGB DC
havent seen anybody with these...


----------



## YoungChris

Nizzen said:


> You know it's b-die if you can run 4000+ with sub 300 TRFC and sub c16


To my knowledge, all the ICs that can do this are:
Samsung 8GBit B-Die, 4GBit E-Die
Nanya 8GBit B-Die (think that's the actual name of the IC, it's most recognizable as Corsair ver8.31)
Hynix 4GBit AFR
Now, Samsung and Nanya 8GBit B-Die have similar properties with tRCD as well, at least up to 1.5 or 1.6 vdimm.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> F4-3200C14D-64GTZDC-(EOL) - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z RGB DC DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 64GB (2x32GB) Trident Z RGB DC (Double Capacity) series is a new class of high-capacity DDR4 memory, doubling the conventional 16GB module capacity with 16 memory IC chips to a whopping 32GB per module with 32 IC chips, substantially increasing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trident Z RGB DC
> havent seen anybody with these...


Was very hard to OC it on Z390. I would rather buy micron bdie


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Was very hard to OC it on Z390. I would rather buy micron bdie


Try on z590 Apex?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Try on z590 Apex?


Didn’t try. It was 2 years ago when I had that kit…


----------



## D-EJ915

Those DC are 2 16GB sticks on 1 PCB so imagine it is pretty hard.


----------



## Astral85

Do these results look odd? 3866Mhz with very little tweaks and 3800Mhz with heavy primary and RTL training tweaks.


----------



## Groove2013

@Astral85 it's actually an Intel 11th gen thread - not 10th gen.


----------



## NorySS

cstkl1 said:


> F4-3200C14D-64GTZDC-(EOL) - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z RGB DC DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 64GB (2x32GB) Trident Z RGB DC (Double Capacity) series is a new class of high-capacity DDR4 memory, doubling the conventional 16GB module capacity with 16 memory IC chips to a whopping 32GB per module with 32 IC chips, substantially increasing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trident Z RGB DC
> havent seen anybody with these...


They dont overclock at all. maybe 100m/t or -1 Cas latency. other than that, stay away.


----------



## IronAge

Challenge accepted? - ASRock Z590 OC Formula overclocking review with teardown | Page 6 | igor'sLAB


Dare to Challenge – rarely has a slogan been more fitting than that of the Z590 OC Formula, ASRock's new high-end overclocking motherboard! Intel's latest mainstream CPUs of the Rocket Lake family…




www.igorslab.de





Igorslab Review of Z590 OC Formula.


----------



## YoungChris

Single vs Dual rank (2x8gb vs 2x16gb) comparison with B-Die at 3733 12-11 1t and Gear 1:















Interestingly, dual rank wasn't just a 2x increase in memory capacity and a little bit of performance. With these bench settings, it was a 16x increase in memory capacity with a meaningful increase in single/multi core and memory performance.


----------



## CallMeODZ

YoungChris said:


> Single vs Dual rank (2x8gb vs 2x16gb) comparison with B-Die at 3733 12-11 1t and Gear 1:



how do you find the dark? also, how tf do you get hold of one :O


----------



## YoungChris

CallMeODZ said:


> how do you find the dark? also, how tf do you get hold of one :O


I'd say more the board found me, it's a buggy beta tester lol


----------



## YoungChris

small update, >3800 12-11 1t with gear 1 and dual rank








still all 32gb useable


----------



## morph.

YoungChris said:


> small update, >3800 12-11 1t with gear 1 and dual rank
> View attachment 2514934
> 
> still all 32gb useable


nuts but what voltages are these settings?


----------



## CallMeODZ

YoungChris said:


> I'd say more the board found me, it's a buggy beta tester lol


gotcha,safe to say you like the board? i really want one - shame they've held it back for so long


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> Single vs Dual rank (2x8gb vs 2x16gb) comparison with B-Die at 3733 12-11 1t and Gear 1:
> View attachment 2514918
> View attachment 2514919
> 
> Interestingly, dual rank wasn't just a 2x increase in memory capacity and a little bit of performance. With these bench settings, it was a 16x increase in memory capacity with a meaningful increase in single/multi core and memory performance.


Single rank allows 2 commands to burst at one period, but dual rank allows up to 4 commands to burst. So yeah, a lot of increase.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

3866 14-14-28 1.5V


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 3866 14-14-28 1.5V
> View attachment 2514989


Love it!

Is memio/vccsa voltages optimised or can it go lower?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Love it!
> 
> Is memio/vccsa voltages optimised or can it go lower?


Thanks 

sa can be lower. mem oc 1.45V was no go, 1.5V was good, so room for improvement should be very tight.


----------



## YoungChris

morph. said:


> nuts but what voltages are these settings?


needs like 1.45 mem io, 1.65 sa, "around" 1.9vdimm


----------



## YoungChris

3866 is only a hair away








not sure if IMC limit or odd ratio issue


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YoungChris said:


> 3866 is only a hair away
> View attachment 2515020
> 
> not sure if IMC limit or odd ratio issue


can try mem oc io =1.65V


----------



## YoungChris

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> can try mem oc io =1.65V


that helped a bunch, actually








also put sa to 1.675
passes gb3 surprisingly consistently, now I need to get this running sp32m


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Thanks
> 
> sa can be lower. mem oc 1.45V was no go, 1.5V was good, so room for improvement should be very tight.



Finally managed to source a F4-4000C14D-32GTES kit... Curious what it can do with my mobo/imc.

If you optimise the voltage for your 3866 settings please let me know...

Also on another note, have you tried gear 2 yet? Is 4400c16/15 or 4600c17/16 doable with reasonable voltages?


----------



## IronAge

CallMeODZ said:


> gotcha,safe to say you like the board? i really want one - shame they've held it back for so long






__ https://www.facebook.com/vince.lucido/posts/3756475351124545


----------



## morph.

Wonder what gear 1 mode will be like with 12th gen / ddr5...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Finally managed to source a kit F4-4000C14D-32GTES... Curious what it can do with my mobo/imc.
> 
> If you optimise the voltage for your 3866 settings please let me know...
> 
> Also on another note, have you tried gear 2 yet? Is 4400c16/15 or 4600c17/16 doable with reasonable voltages?


Sure, I will post any improvements.

I just tried 4800C17 gear 2 and it failed.


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Sure, I will post any improvements.
> 
> I just tried 4800C17 gear 2 and it failed.


THanks!

yeah guessing 4800c18 is the go base on the linear progression of 200mhz per CL from 4000c14 probably need 1.55vdimm


----------



## PhoenixMDA

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Sure, I will post any improvements.
> 
> I just tried 4800C17 gear 2 and it failed.


I have tested 2Kits, in every Kit i was 1Stick was able to do [email protected],585v alone, i have taken this 2 Sticks.
The other 2 Sticks are only boot to 4666 on ckl apex xii.
The first Kit was not able to drive trdrd_sg on 6, but perhaps 4600/4666 Gsat stable and 4700CL16-17 boot possible with both.
The second Kit trdrd_sg 6 possible, but 4600/4666c16 Gsat instable.

The best 2 Sticks 4600c16 and c17 Gsat/Memtest stable/ and [email protected],585V also and do trdrd_sg 6.
I think the Bin don't to guarantee high stable frequency.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

PhoenixMDA said:


> I have tested 2Kits, in every Kit i was 1Stick was able to do [email protected],585v alone, i have taken this 2 Sticks.
> The other 2 Sticks are only boot to 4666 on ckl apex xii.
> The first Kit was not able to drive trdrd_sg on 6, but perhaps 4600/4666 Gsat stable and 4700CL16-17 boot possible with both.
> The second Kit trdrd_sg 6 possible, but 4600/4666c16 Gsat instable.
> 
> The best 2 Sticks 4600c16 and c17 Gsat stable and 4666c16 also and do trdrd_sg 6.
> I think the Bin don't to guarantee high stable frequency.


I think it was not the bin. My much worse 4000C17 bin can boot and bench 4700C16 on M12A.

On Z590, DR bdie is much harder to post beyond 4533. If it cant go higher than 4533 on Z590, I would rather run DR DJR


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Yes i think its harder on Z590, perhaps you need really the perfekt one's to be able to boot higher or its like impossible.
But the Vdimm what you bin need dont really say how high you can boot, my old Kit with higher vdimm was also easier in high frequency.
In my case also a question of the control signals, with the CPU, there fits the my old Kit better with my CPU.

I think for you the B-Die only for gear1 interesting, the only board where one has shown [email protected] with b-die was on the unify X.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

PhoenixMDA said:


> Yes i think its harder on Z590, perhaps you need really the perfekt one's to be able to boot higher or its like impossible.
> But the Vdimm what you bin need dont really say how high you can boot, my old Kit with higher vdimm was also easier in high frequency.
> In my case also a question of the control signals, with the CPU, there fits the my old Kit better with my CPU.
> 
> I think for you the B-Die only for gear1 interesting, the only board where one has shown [email protected] with b-die was on the unify X.


Thanks for the info.

I do think it was a training issue. The IMC load is much less on Z590 gear 2 so it should do better than Z490, however I've seen many cases that can only do 4266.

I was thinking about the performance wise about gear 2. In gear 2 you need to do CR1 to get reasonable bandwidth. DJR can easily do 4533 18-24 CR1 and lots of kits have the potential to do 5066C20 CR1. In Z590 gear 2, DR DJR is much worth tuning than DR bdie.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I do think it was a training issue. The IMC load is much less on Z590 gear 2 so it should do better than Z490, however I've seen many cases that can only do 4266.
> 
> I was thinking about the performance wise about gear 2. In gear 2 you need to do CR1 to get reasonable bandwidth. DJR can easily do 4533 18-24 CR1 and lots of kits have the potential to do 5066C20 CR1. In Z590 gear 2, DR DJR is much worth tuning than DR bdie.


5200C19 is doableo on water with that klevv kit...


----------



## CallMeODZ

safe to say evga go BRRRRRRRR


----------



## PhoenixMDA

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I do think it was a training issue. The IMC load is much less on Z590 gear 2 so it should do better than Z490, however I've seen many cases that can only do 4266.
> 
> I was thinking about the performance wise about gear 2. In gear 2 you need to do CR1 to get reasonable bandwidth. DJR can easily do 4533 18-24 CR1 and lots of kits have the potential to do 5066C20 CR1. In Z590 gear 2, DR DJR is much worth tuning than DR bdie.


Yes i also think it´s a problem of the sense amp training,that is more optimized for DJR, perhaps because you can reach higher frequeny with DJR with more IMC clock.
For me the most important timings for training are CL/Trdc, tCWL and trdrd_sg to be in a possible transmission window.
As example an easy boot is 4700CL17-17 with tcwl14 and trdrd_sg 6, but it´s not possible with tcwl16, the same with trdrd_sg7, but if i set the both command slope cmd manual,
i can also boot with Tcwl 16.
It´s out of a good signal window for auto training.Cl16 has where much more scope.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can I have a link for asrock timing config with gear mode ? Anyone here use techn block for lga1200? I bought blemish optimus block and the cpu hit 91c at stock. I can feel the block is not all the way down.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> 5200C19 is doableo on water with that klevv kit...


need to get my 3080 water cooled first


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

PhoenixMDA said:


> Yes i also think it´s a problem of the sense amp training,that is more optimized for DJR, perhaps because you can reach higher frequeny with DJR with more IMC clock.
> For me the most important timings for training are CL/Trdc, tCWL and trdrd_sg to be in a possible transmission window.
> As example an easy boot is 4700CL17-17 with tcwl14 and trdrd_sg 6, but it´s not possible with tcwl16, the same with trdrd_sg7, but if i set the both command slope cmd manual,
> i can also boot with Tcwl 16.
> It´s out of a good signal window for auto training.Cl16 has where much more scope.


Inspiring. If I got time I will definitely give it a shot.










Now I understand why they tend to give 15 for the rising slopes.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Tcwl 14-16 works for CL16 there is the window bigger, 15 - better 16 is possible to drive CL17 with fast 11/11/11/11.
With tcwl 14 is higher frequency possible but no 11/11/11/11.
A long time ago i have summary information about slope´s bitlane´s etc. to understand it better.

look at the slope´s from the cpu, every IC get the signal in *serial*, i think if the ic´s to different the windows of working slope´s is lower.
Perhaps one IC need´s a lower signal an other a higher.The next thing is tRDRD_sg, if i have understood it right it´s a "load time"
within a module, if the Ic´s there also to "different or bad" you need 7 and then is CL17 not possible in high frequency 4266+.

It´s like i have tested it, one modul of the 4sticks of 4000C14 can´t trdrd_sg 6, if i change it with an other stick that can it, i can boot cl17.
So i think not only the VDimm and switching times are important, in high frequency all IC´s must be equal.
That is the reason why i selected two working c14 stick´s which works good together. 😅
If i give enough IO/SA the result give me right 4700c16 works with auto slope´s and my imc is really not the best.One 4000C14 Kit was no 20s stable at 4600Cl16 with any value´s.

Perhap´s it help´s you to select a good working pair of djr
















P.S.
by me the slope´s are arround 10-14 and i think auto is the same.


----------



## YoungChris

3890 12-11 past sp32m, efficiency still needs some work
















Sparky's__Adventure`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 5min 4sec 721ms with a Core i9 11900K


The Core i9 11900K @ 5000.4MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate benchmark. Sparky's__Adventureranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## D-EJ915

Unify-X is available on newegg now MSI MEG Z590 UNIFY-X LGA 1200 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

tachyon also on newegg Are you a human?

Just need the dark now.


----------



## IronAge

Thats just sick, Unify-X being ~200$ cheaper than the rest of the bunch of 2 DIMM slot mobos.


----------



## YoungChris

IronAge said:


> Thats just sick, Unify-X being ~200$ cheaper than the rest of the bunch of 2 DIMM slot mobos.


In my experience, I only recommend the Unify-X if you plan on running Gear 2. That being said, with a decent set of Hynix 8GBit DJR (maybe 16GBit AJR is equivalent?) or Micron 16GBit Rev B you can really pull some absurd OCs.


----------



## IronAge

@YoungChris 

I got B-Dies, gotto be almost 10 Kits as of now, have to check my inventory.

i got rid off both Apex, so now its about ASRock OC Formula or the Dark.

and since i am an EVGA Fanboy and the Z590 OC Formula seems a ltitle overpriced ...

You already have an idea how much the Z590 Dark will cost ?


----------



## YoungChris

IronAge said:


> @YoungChris
> 
> I got B-Dies, gotto be almost 10 Kits as of now, have to check my inventory.
> 
> i got rid off both Apex, so now its about ASRock OC Formula or the Dark.
> 
> and since i am an EVGA Fanboy and the Z590 OC Formula seems a ltitle overpriced ...
> 
> You already have an idea how much the Z590 Dark will cost ?


I wouldn't expect it to be more than $600, but I also wouldn't expect it to be priced as aggressively as the Unify-X.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

IronAge said:


> @YoungChris
> 
> I got B-Dies, gotto be almost 10 Kits as of now, have to check my inventory.
> 
> i got rid off both Apex, so now its about ASRock OC Formula or the Dark.
> 
> and since i am an EVGA Fanboy and the Z590 OC Formula seems a ltitle overpriced ...
> 
> You already have an idea how much the Z590 Dark will cost ?


If you want to use 2x16GB B-Die gear2 the only board that seems to be optimized is the unify X.
And take a look to the cache that is not set high so less ns i think possible.And the board has a nice price.


----------



## bigcid10

Do anyone here know if there has been any newer bios updates than 0902
for the strix z590-E gaming ? 
Thank you


----------



## D-EJ915

IronAge said:


> @YoungChris
> 
> I got B-Dies, gotto be almost 10 Kits as of now, have to check my inventory.
> 
> i got rid off both Apex, so now its about ASRock OC Formula or the Dark.
> 
> and since i am an EVGA Fanboy and the Z590 OC Formula seems a ltitle overpriced ...
> 
> You already have an idea how much the Z590 Dark will cost ?


The Z490 dark was expensive (499-549) compared to the apex so I wouldn't doubt the Z590 version will be expensive as well.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> If you want to use 2x16GB B-Die gear2 the only board that seems to be optimized is the unify X.
> And take a look to the cache that is not set high so less ns i think possible.And the board has a nice price.
> View attachment 2515254


definitely not on air cooling


----------



## YoungChris

continued improvement to 5g SP32M score








about 50ms behind my target


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> definitely not on air cooling


I think that is possible take a look CL16 need much more voltage and yes my sticks are under water but 26°room.
And that are no lose sub´s, i think 4800CL17-17 or 4933CL17-18 is possible with 2x16GB B-Die there is scope by VDimm.
On CML limit the IMC, but on RKL not.

[email protected],59V








And here CL17-17 need´s much less VDimm(4666 because IMC)
[email protected],465V









Perhaps with a fan and i think he has really great memory sticks^^.But no Ln2, his record with the [email protected] is 7200mhz with HyperX sticks.


----------



## IronAge

If 11th Gen would not be away about only 6 monthes it would be less painful to spend almost 600$ for a motherboard, prices really got insane.

so actually this Unify-X is very tempting for me, i have a very nice screen of Gear2 B-Die DR with sub 39ns and high bandwidth.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I think that is one of the most interesting board´s for RKL user and that for a really good price.
For me is no gain from my system, so i wait if DDR5 9000-10000 is possible.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I think that is one of the most interesting board´s for RKL user and that for a really good price.
> For me is no gain from my system, so i wait if DDR5 9000-10000 is possible.


alderlake.. hmm two imc + fivr.. 
this should be a nightmare with early ddr5 chipset


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Can someone share tight 3733mhz dual rank?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can someone share tight 3733mhz dual rank?


_Hynix - KHX3733C19D4/16GX_


----------



## cstkl1

RobertoSampaio said:


> _Hynix - KHX3733C19D4/16GX_
> 
> 
> View attachment 2515432


becareful of those kingson rams..
they are 8 layer and cant seem to handle above 1.6v..
friend fried his


----------



## RobertoSampaio

cstkl1 said:


> becareful of those kingson rams..
> they are 8 layer and cant seem to handle above 1.6v..
> friend fried his


I'm running DRAM = 1.38V
VCCIO= 1.20v
VCCSA= 1.25v


----------



## Jwick

whats the layer count for z590 apex. i heard its 10 not sure.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> whats the layer count for z590 apex. i heard its 10 not sure.


6 i think


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> alderlake.. hmm two imc + fivr..
> this should be a nightmare with early ddr5 chipset


I love nightmare memory oc 🤩
More fun to get good results 😎


----------



## YoungChris

4.9 ring on air








Needs 1.6vcore in bios lol


----------



## ALSTER868

Tried to sort out 7 tray 11900K to pick up one by the highest SP value on a M13A.
However, all of them showed SP50 which was strange to me.
Then tried one box 11900K, it was the same SP50. 
Is it a kind of bug or could there be an unhappy coincidence that 8 CPUs had the same SP50 value? MB Bios is the latest 0903.


----------



## Jwick

ALSTER868 said:


> Tried to sort out 7 tray 11900K to pick up one by the highest SP value on a M13A.
> However, all of them showed SP50 which was strange to me.
> Then tried one box 11900K, it was the same SP50.
> Is it a kind of bug or could there be an unhappy coincidence that 8 CPUs had the same SP50 value? MB Bios is the latest 0903.


has to be a bug.


----------



## Jwick

have u tested those cpus? like binning them the normal way by running stress test etc.


----------



## jimpsar

ALSTER868 said:


> Tried to sort out 7 tray 11900K to pick up one by the highest SP value on a M13A.
> However, all of them showed SP50 which was strange to me.
> Then tried one box 11900K, it was the same SP50.
> Is it a kind of bug or could there be an unhappy coincidence that 8 CPUs had the same SP50 value? MB Bios is the latest 0903.


Mine is boxed one too, and bought it 10 days ago it shows SP50 in my z490 XII Hero also.
Currently @ 5.1 all core 1.36 Volt 3600 15-15-36 Gear 1 1T


----------



## bscool

I know that some Asus boards had issues with updating the microcode via flashback. I would look at that to see if it is correct.

Also SP I would take with a grain of salt. The IMC on my SP55 is slightly better than my SP85. Not by much but something else to consider if you are into mem OC.

Also recently got a z590 Hero and it can clock higher on DR b die than the z590 Apex I have. z590 Apex 4533 is max I can run. The Hero can do 4624.


----------



## YoungChris

The OS I use for my efficiency testing can be found here:





Sparky's OSs for benching SP32M on current gen Intel and AMD.7z







drive.google.com




Get to benching! I want to see y'all post scores!





Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


HWBOT is a site dedicated to overclocking. We promote overclocking achievements and competitions for professionals as well as enthousiasts with rankings and a huge hardware database.




hwbot.org


----------



## ALSTER868

Jwick said:


> have u tested those cpus? like binning them the normal way by running stress test etc.


No I didin't have time for it unfortunately. In the end I grabbed the boxed one hoping it could be a better bin.


----------



## xl_digit

ALSTER868 said:


> Tried to sort out 7 tray 11900K to pick up one by the highest SP value on a M13A.
> However, all of them showed SP50 which was strange to me.
> Then tried one box 11900K, it was the same SP50.
> Is it a kind of bug or could there be an unhappy coincidence that 8 CPUs had the same SP50 value? MB Bios is the latest 0903.


i also got this issue when comparing to 11900K CPU´s

Resolution: when you insert a new CPU, do a BIOS Update, then the SP shows the real Value.


----------



## IronAge

Had no issues like that with 0902, and i checked SP for two 11700K and one 11900K within less than 10 mins since i had to return the Apex.

Probably it properly detects CPU change when changing from 11700K to 11900K


----------



## ALSTER868

xl_digit said:


> Resolution: when you insert a new CPU, do a BIOS Update, then the SP shows the real Value


I knew about updates and I twice updated it but nothing changed though


----------



## Jwick

Asus is buggy bro, i had weird experiences with asus lol.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> Asus is buggy bro, i had weird experiences with asus lol.





Jwick said:


> Asus is buggy bro, i had weird experiences with asus lol.


LoL


----------



## satinghostrider

ALSTER868 said:


> Tried to sort out 7 tray 11900K to pick up one by the highest SP value on a M13A.
> However, all of them showed SP50 which was strange to me.
> Then tried one box 11900K, it was the same SP50.
> Is it a kind of bug or could there be an unhappy coincidence that 8 CPUs had the same SP50 value? MB Bios is the latest 0903.


I used the beta bios 0903 somewhere on this thread and my SP rating dropped to 83 from 109. So I think the initial bios with the board probably is goofing out the SP rating.

My board came with 0506 or something like that when I booted up.


----------



## Jwick

silicon quality in general is very hard to define.why? because certain chips have more leakage then others so it scales with more voltage than others , while certain chips scales well with temperatures while others dont. the world record holding chips may not be good at ambient but the chips which do really good at ambient wouldnt do good on ln2. its confusing but it is what it is. also that sp rating is only for core i believe ( not sure whether it applies to cache as well because i had a sp 92 chip which could only do 4.7cahce while sp 85 chip could do 4.8 at the same voltage and temp but the sp 92 could run 100 mghz run higher than the sp 85 at the same voltage, i could run 100 mghz extra on the sp 85 chip but needed to give about 15mv more) so the imc and cache is not part of the sp rating. for example lets say u can do 5.3 4000mghz imc dr on one chip while the other 3766 but 5.4.the sp rating will be higher on the second chip but overall which chip do u think will perform better ( excluding the scaling factors ). this is what i have understood from my experience.


----------



## cstkl1

@bscool
update
i rmaed my 4800c17 stick cause the dimms are uneven. other way arnd it fails xmp

new ram now boots 5-5066c17 plug and play
both not bad fails hci at with 1-2 error.
dont need mode 2 for these sticks
5k stable doable









these sticks do
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] seems doable.
[email protected]


----------



## YoungChris

Scythe Fuma 2 for cooling. 1.67vcore with -50% droop setting, 1.65 io men/1.675 sa, 1.92vdimm.








Has anyone else here done 50 core/50 ring on full ambient?


----------



## Jwick

the voltage is getting a bit high lol.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@cstkl1
You new sticks are really awesome🙌
Really great result.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> @cstkl1
> You new sticks are really awesome🙌
> Really great result.


the board seems to rewards better rams only. 
no way arnd to brute force the slightly lower quality.


----------



## skullbringer

How is DJR at 5600 22-32-48 seemingly more stable than 5333 22-32-54 on the M13A?

Anything above 5066 seems to be completely off daily stable limits


----------



## Tordp

Anybody know if F4-4800C20D-32GTZR is DJR or Micron?

F4-4800C20D-32GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> the board seems to rewards better rams only.
> no way arnd to brute force the slightly lower quality.


Yes it´s so important that the IC´s not only have awesome quality, they must be like equal in the modul at hisself´s and also to the second stick.
It´s so rar to have such a Kit, my both 2x16gb 4000C14 Kit´s wasn´t good for high frequency with hard sub´s,
Only the 2 select stick´s of both kit´s can do it and i think was really lucky.

Your 2x8gb Kit is really great,it´s like best possible.
I guess the problem is that the control signal´s(slope´s) for the IC´s are in serial and if one IC need´s higher or lower signal then you have lose.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> How is DJR at 5600 22-32-48 seemingly more stable than 5333 22-32-54 on the M13A?
> 
> Anything above 5066 seems to be completely off daily stable limits


Don't know but 5333C20 should be completely fine for daily. And I've seen even MSI low end 4Dimm board can do this.










IMO 5600 would be much harder to get stabled.


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Don't know but 5333C20 should be completely fine for daily. And I've seen even MSI low end 4Dimm board can do this.
> 
> View attachment 2515700
> 
> 
> IMO 5600 would be much harder to get stabled.


oh nice, that's an awesome oc for daily volts. What kit ist that?

In the meantime I've figured out that my i9 is godlike in gear1 and horseshit in gear2, hence not even running 5066c20 xmp stable. However my i7 is currently 20mins into tm5 [email protected] at 5333c20 with same SA and IO Mem 🙃


----------



## Nizzen

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Don't know but 5333C20 should be completely fine for daily. And I've seen even MSI low end 4Dimm board can do this.
> 
> View attachment 2515700
> 
> 
> IMO 5600 would be much harder to get stabled.


Is there any games at all that benefit high bandwidth with ONE gpu over Gear 1 with lower latency?


----------



## YoungChris

Tordp said:


> Anybody know if F4-4800C20D-32GTZR is DJR or Micron?
> 
> F4-4800C20D-32GTZR-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


odds are djr


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool
> update
> i rmaed my 4800c17 stick cause the dimms are uneven. other way arnd it fails xmp
> 
> new ram now boots 5-5066c17 plug and play
> both not bad fails hci at with 1-2 error.
> dont need mode 2 for these sticks
> 5k stable doable
> View attachment 2515658
> 
> 
> these sticks do
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> [email protected] seems doable.
> [email protected]


Jeez, those sticks are strong as heck
Is 5066c16 remotely viable?
Or like 5333 18-18


----------



## Groove2013

Only 16 GB is so yesterday...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Nizzen said:


> Is there any games at all that benefit high bandwidth with ONE gpu over Gear 1 with lower latency?


Nope...I'm still using DR 3866 flat 14 for gaming and it's so far the best setup


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> oh nice, that's an awesome oc for daily volts. What kit ist that?
> 
> In the meantime I've figured out that my i9 is godlike in gear1 and horseshit in gear2, hence not even running 5066c20 xmp stable. However my i7 is currently 20mins into tm5 [email protected] at 5333c20 with same SA and IO Mem 🙃


It's kingston hyperx 4800. I managed to validate dual channel 6133 under ambient:








Intel Core i9 11900K @ 4798.85 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[k5w8gh] Validated Dump by OLDFATSHEEP (2021-06-02 04:16:19) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX - RAM: 16384 MB




valid.x86.fr





Yeah, gear 2 might only for bench purposes imo. For daily I am using DR 3866 flat 14.


----------



## skullbringer

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It's kingston hyperx 4800. I managed to validate dual channel 6133 under ambient:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K @ 4798.85 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [k5w8gh] Validated Dump by OLDFATSHEEP (2021-06-02 04:16:19) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX - RAM: 16384 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, gear 2 might only for bench purposes imo. For daily I am using DR 3866 flat 14.


can you actually pass a full run of tm5 though, even at "just" 5333?

cause no matter what I tweak I always get 1 error after about 20 mins...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

skullbringer said:


> can you actually pass a full run of tm5 though, even at "just" 5333?
> 
> cause no matter what I tweak I always get 1 error after about 20 mins...


I set TM5 to unlimited cycles so I just usually run for 1hr.

As you can see in the pic it has been running for 49 min and no errors.

So as for the case, I think you might need to bump up your IO2 (Mem OC IO). Sounds like it was caused by the dimm signal.


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> How is DJR at 5600 22-32-48 seemingly more stable than 5333 22-32-54 on the M13A?
> 
> Anything above 5066 seems to be completely off daily stable limits


the sacrifice on 5200 above for daily is the turnaround ( time to complete 1 cycle on hci) with either tfaw or high trdrd_dg

so i think not worth it. aida doesnt show the true picture. running the latest runmemtestpro gui.. ppl can see the time to conplete and average coverage speed. 



YoungChris said:


> Jeez, those sticks are strong as heck
> Is 5066c16 remotely viable?
> Or like 5333 18-18


c16 possible bro.

this stick literally just plug and play. no fiddling to boot other than feeding vdimm.

because both sticks are equal. the first kit had issues.


----------



## yahfz

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Nope...I'm still using DR 3866 flat 14 for gaming and it's so far the best setup


It's crazy that you can even run that. I haven't even been able to post at 3866 meanwhile you're doing 3866 14 flat. If you say thats also CR1 i'll just accept it and cry myself to sleep XD


----------



## sugi0lover

Gear 1 3900-13-14-14-14-215-2T HCI 1 Hr test
Before voltage optimization~


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

yahfz said:


> It's crazy that you can even run that. I haven't even been able to post at 3866 meanwhile you're doing 3866 14 flat. If you say thats also CR1 i'll just accept it and cry myself to sleep XD


Aha, that is CR2.

That's the result of buying and selling 5 retail cpus and running with a $560 ram kit. IMCs on the 11th gen differ a lot. The range is between 3733 and 4533. So really worth the time to bin the IMCs.


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Gear 1 3900-13-14-14-14-215-2T HCI 1 Hr test
> Before voltage optimization~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2515979


You are my hero


----------



## IronAge

bought another Apex XIII, could not resist for 430$ including shipping and tax. 

just got 560$ refund for the one i have returned.


----------



## IronAge

Wonder when the Z590 DARK OC event takes place.  




__ https://www.facebook.com/vince.lucido/posts/3756475351124545


----------



## CallMeODZ

IronAge said:


> Wonder when the Z590 DARK OC event takes place.



legit been waiting. they are so ass when it comes to releases
the delay is probably to do with their religion. they are all on their knees with fans and grapes cooling kingpins o/c'ed balls


<edit here> i just seen that EVGA are making AMD boards now x570S dark. looks sexy


----------



## YoungChris

sugi0lover said:


> Gear 1 3900-13-14-14-14-215-2T HCI 1 Hr test
> Before voltage optimization~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2515979


Mind if I borrow that CPU?
I could use a better IMC 🤩


----------



## sugi0lover

YoungChris said:


> Mind if I borrow that CPU?
> I could use a better IMC 🤩


My CPU imc can't even boot 4000Mhz, so I am not sure my IMC is good or not.
But I know my Ram kit is strong becuase it was the best out of more than 50 4000 Cl15 ram kits my friend bought.


----------



## cstkl1

17-17 only possible if i put a fan on it and reduce the temp below 40c


----------



## jimpsar

sugi0lover said:


> Gear 1 3900-13-14-14-14-215-2T HCI 1 Hr test
> Before voltage optimization~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2515979


Wow this is what 11900k truly does 
Is it all core @ 5.2 with light bclk oc only 1.39volts ??


----------



## sugi0lover

jimpsar said:


> Wow this is what 11900k truly does
> Is it all core @ 5.2 with light bclk oc only 1.39volts ??


My 11900K is only SP89, but yes to your question.
I don't know how much more bclk OC requires, so I put higher voltage than regular 5.2Ghz.
Regular 5.2Ghz needs around 1.290 to pass 1hr Cinebench 20.
And it can also do the below

[email protected] (all cores, cache 4.5Ghz) can pass 1Hr Prime95 (AVX disabled) at 1.480v(Bios input) without any problem.





[email protected] (all cores, cache 4.5Ghz) can pass 1Hr Cinebench 20 at 1.370v.


----------



## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> My 11900K is only SP89, but yes to your question.
> And it can also do the below
> 
> [email protected] (all cores, cache 4.5Ghz) can pass 1Hr Prime95 (AVX disabled) at 1.480v(Bios input) without any problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] (all cores, cache 4.5Ghz) can pass 1Hr Cinebench 20 at 1.370v.


Awesome work! Wonder if my SP83 can achieve something similar as well.


----------



## ALSTER868

jimpsar said:


> Is it all core @ 5.2 with light bclk oc only 1.39volts ??


Mine can do 5200 with 1.39v bios input LLC6 and [email protected] LLC7. It's also on a M13A.
I wonder how good or bad proc is that. It's allegedly SP50 but as it seems that SP value is a bios bug.
Only thing that is shocking is the power consumption. At 5300 MHz it pulls 400W+ in R23 according to monitoring and it scares me. Albeit the temps are quite within reasonable limits.


----------



## heavyrain

PhoenixMDA said:


> If you want to use 2x16GB B-Die gear2 the only board that seems to be optimized is the unify X.
> And take a look to the cache that is not set high so less ns i think possible.And the board has a nice price.
> View attachment 2515254


I want use Unify X with 10th for memory oc, will be better than Z490I Unify and M13A?
Or due to the Z590‘s layout is optimize for RKL and the bottleneck is 10th's imc, so use Z590 Unify X with 10th will not have any improvement?
Even worse, will cause Negative Optimization if I use Unify X with 10th？


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@heavyrain
2x16gb is m12a better with cml, z490i was the most results worse as the atx unify and with the New unify x it gives no results with cml.
It can be awesome or worse, i dont know it.


----------



## cstkl1

heavyrain said:


> I want use Unify X with 10th for memory oc, will be better than Z490I Unify and M13A?
> Or due to the Z590‘s layout is optimize for RKL and the bottleneck is 10th's imc, so use Z590 Unify X with 10th will not have any improvement?
> Even worse, will cause Negative Optimization if I use Unify X with 10th？


from what i can see on everything...

its all about luck on ram ...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> from what i can see on everything...
> 
> its all about luck on ram ...


You have 2x8gb b-die, think back m11a.
If the bios/board not optimated you have also with the best ram no chance and Boards like the m13A are no good choice at this moment for 2x16GB B-Die.

People here has shown us that it's worse with m13a as m12a with cml and rkl at least 2x16GB b-die.


----------



## jimpsar

Omg, excellent job done there! Thank you for reply. Mine is not so good at oc, 5.1 all core it does with 1.38 LLC6 .


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

heavyrain said:


> I want use Unify X with 10th for memory oc, will be better than Z490I Unify and M13A?
> Or due to the Z590‘s layout is optimize for RKL and the bottleneck is 10th's imc, so use Z590 Unify X with 10th will not have any improvement?
> Even worse, will cause Negative Optimization if I use Unify X with 10th？


The 10th gen on Z590itx was terrible. So you d better put 11th gen chips on 590UX.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> You have 2x8gb b-die, think back m11a.
> If the bios/board not optimated you have also with the best ram no chance and Boards like the m13A are no good choice at this moment for 2x16GB B-Die.
> 
> People here has shown us that it's worse with m13a as m12a with cml and rkl at least 2x16GB b-die.


You cant go far back

bdies that are binned now are so far ahead than whatever there was back in z390

as for m13a on bdie DR.. @safedisk gets whatever he got on his 10900k and 11900k and even went to push to 4800 benching...

as for my DR kit.. i am just 16mhz less than what i could in z490..... so back to quality of ram i guess..4650C17 on z590.. before it could do 4666c16/c15 on z490 easy. but there is one flaw on the dr.. is hard to do c16 which was damn easy on z490 for bdie dr.

ram speeds now are so high and hard to judge...even micron / hynix kits are doing crazy timings that wasnt possible back 1-2 years ago...


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I think apex xiii is more optimated for hynix/micron.
Some people frome here Was not able to reach nearly the same oc as m12a with the same ram, also in HWL 2x16GBb-die and apex xiii worse case.

Unify-X is i think the better choice/chance and that for a cheaper price.


----------



## Electrosoft

ALSTER868 said:


> Mine can do 5200 with 1.39v bios input LLC6 and [email protected] LLC7. It's also on a M13A.
> I wonder how good or bad proc is that. It's allegedly SP50 but as it seems that SP value is a bios bug.
> Only thing that is shocking is the power consumption. At 5300 MHz it pulls 400W+ in R23 according to monitoring and it scares me. Albeit the temps are quite within reasonable limits.


I don't think I've ever seen an 11900k pull 400w+ in R23 @ 5.3 but 1.44 @ LLC7 how much is Vcore under load? Could just be a super hungry chip that isn't leaky.

My last 11900k required 1.525 BIOS, actual under load was 1.539 and even it topped out at 370w running CB23 @ 5.3 .
My current 11900k requies 1.4 BIOS under load it pulls1.412 and tops out at 295w running CB23 @ 5.3.


----------



## Electrosoft

sugi0lover said:


> My 11900K is only SP89, but yes to your question.
> I don't know how much more bclk OC requires, so I put higher voltage than regular 5.2Ghz.
> Regular 5.2Ghz needs around 1.290 to pass 1hr Cinebench 20.
> And it can also do the below
> 
> [email protected] (all cores, cache 4.5Ghz) can pass 1Hr Prime95 (AVX disabled) at 1.480v(Bios input) without any problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] (all cores, cache 4.5Ghz) can pass 1Hr Cinebench 20 at 1.370v.


How does it do with CB23 running the same tests? @ 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4? Looks like a HOF SP89 edition.


----------



## sugi0lover

Electrosoft said:


> How does it do with CB23 running the same tests? @ 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4? Looks like a HOF SP89 edition.


For me, CB23 requires less voltages than CB20 or Prime.
This pic shows 5.4ghz passed cb20 23 prime at the same voltage.

I have experienced with 3 11900ks, SP 89 93 89, and
they are almost the same for 5.2~5.4Ghz. But they have difference in IMC.
FYI, Here is the profile I posted here.





50661717_BIOS0901_Z590 Apex.CMO







drive.google.com












[email protected] Prime 1Hr


New item added to shared album




photos.app.goo.gl


----------



## CallMeODZ

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=121-RL-E597-KR




OUT OF STOCK
FREE Standard Shipping on this item for a Limited Time

LIMIT 1 PER HOUSEHOLD.




$*429*.99


looks like they quietly launched them and all 10 boards they made are gone :'(


----------



## D-EJ915

PhoenixMDA said:


> @heavyrain
> 2x16gb is m12a better with cml, z490i was the most results worse as the atx unify and with the New unify x it gives no results with cml.
> It can be awesome or worse, i dont know it.


I was supposed to get my unify-x today but looks like they had some rain sprinkles somewhere and it got delayed. It's weird waiting for 2 weeks for items these days lol


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I'm looking forward to the results, I definitely think it's one of the most interesting boards, that don´t mean that the other board´s not also great.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The 10th gen on Z590itx was terrible. So you d better put 11th gen chips on 590UX.


eh.. mine is better bro..


PhoenixMDA said:


> I think apex xiii is more optimated for hynix/micron.
> Some people frome here Was not able to reach nearly the same oc as m12a with the same ram, also in HWL 2x16GBb-die and apex xiii worse case.
> 
> Unify-X is i think the better choice/chance and that for a cheaper price.


you are basing unify-x supposed performance from toppc who binned rams and cpu. 

theres no data to show its even any good for actual stable ram timings/chipset.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Yes and that the apex xiii for that not the best choice is at this moment we know.Not only one cant reach 2x16gb 4533mhz with no really bad ram.

I would say we see it if the people test it, with cml and without to be an experimental rabbits i would to prefer the ApexXII.
With 3x10900k and 7 kits (5x3200c14kit)was with worse kit/CPU 4400 possible, that was my lowest without "more action".

For rkl let's be honest, after all, most of them drive gear1.In high frequency it's also more difficult to be really 100% stable.
And for under 400,- i said the unify X it's a good choice with a good chance for great result.

P.s.
For me is the vendor not Important, if a other Board better for an faster stable! 24/7 the old one goes out.


----------



## satinghostrider

PhoenixMDA said:


> Yes and that the apex xiii is no good choice for it at this moment we know.Not only one cant reach 2x16gb 4533mhz with no really bad ram.
> 
> I would say we see it if the people test it, with cml and without to be an experimental rabbits i would to prefer the ApexXII.
> With 3x10900k and 7 kits (5x3200c14kit)was with worse kit/CPU 4400 possible, that was my lowest without "more action".
> 
> For rkl let's be honest, after all, most of them drive gear1.In high frequency it's also more difficult to be really 100% stable.
> And for under 400,- i said the unify X it's a good choice with a good chance for great result.
> 
> P.s.
> For me is the vendor not Important, if a other Board better for an faster stable! 24/7 the old one goes out.


Actually Gear 2 is easily more stable as it has less memory controller load. If you talking Hynix DJR, you can easily hit 5000Mhz with stability depending on your SL. I'm running 4800Mhz CL19 on M13A and I've not had any hiccup. B-Die has issues with high frequency with dual rank with other boards as well. Single Rank you can hit high frequencies but everyone is going 2x16gb these days since most boards are daisy chain setup.

Also, RKL is a new architecture that clocks rams differently from the previous ones. And I'll say it again, it's by far been the most stable CPU I've used. No whea errors and no weird crashes. I had random CTD with Coldwar even with my previous ram setup fully stable. With RKL, not even one after tons of hours of playing.

Even running Gear 1 is a hit or miss pushing the highest and very dependent on your board, CPU and RAM. Not to forget significantly higher SA/IOs which also affects your stability depending on temps.

Lummi did a video on both Gear 1 and Gear 2 and Gear 2 is much better for daily. If you're high enough on frequency >4400Mhz, you also decrease latency along with that though Gear 1 latency will still be better. But that doesn't translate into a proportionate difference in FPS during gaming. At best a couple of FPS.


----------



## YaqY

satinghostrider said:


> Actually Gear 2 is easily more stable as it has less memory controller load. If you talking Hynix DJR, you can easily hit 5000Mhz with stability depending on your SL. I'm running 4800Mhz CL19 on M13A and I've not had any hiccup. B-Die has issues with high frequency with dual rank with other boards as well. Single Rank you can hit high frequencies but everyone is going 2x16gb these days since most boards are daisy chain setup.
> 
> Also, RKL is a new architecture that clocks rams differently from the previous ones. And I'll say it again, it's by far been the most stable CPU I've used. No whea errors and no weird crashes. I had random CTD with Coldwar even with my previous ram setup fully stable. With RKL, not even one after tons of hours of playing.
> 
> Even running Gear 1 is a hit or miss pushing the highest and very dependent on your board, CPU and RAM. Not to forget significantly higher SA/IOs which also affects your stability depending on temps.
> 
> Lummi did a video on both Gear 1 and Gear 2 and Gear 2 is much better for daily. If you're high enough on frequency >4400Mhz, you also decrease latency along with that though Gear 1 latency will still be better. But that doesn't translate into a proportionate difference in FPS during gaming. At best a couple of FPS.


Gear 2 is usually not worth it unless you can clock bdie quite high > 4800. Generally dual rank bdie in gear 1 will perform best, and should be easier to setup.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

@satinghostrider
This was the question on me, i have said i can´t say it can be good or worse, it give´s no experience with unify x and CML, but Apex xiii and Z490-I are not the best choice.
Apex XII is arround 4500/4533 avg.
RKL the most people reach better result´s in gear1 in FPS.


> I want use Unify X with 10th for memory oc, will be better than Z490I Unify and M13A?
> Or due to the Z590‘s layout is optimize for RKL and the bottleneck is 10th's imc, so use Z590 Unify X with 10th will not have any improvement?
> Even worse, will cause Negative Optimization if I use Unify X with 10th？


----------



## satinghostrider

YaqY said:


> Gear 2 is usually not worth it unless you can clock bdie quite high > 4800. Generally dual rank bdie in gear 1 will perform best, and should be easier to setup.


Yes but gear 1 is a Bermuda triangle between 3733 and 3866. You're not guaranteed to run it entirely stable with the majority of kits out there much less boot at 3733Mhz and above. I actually find Gear 2 easier to setup since you don't need much SA/IO to get it stable. Gear 1 is much more sensitive to every inch of voltage to get it stable especially at the the higher end of Gear 1 frequency. It's a guessing game.

Like I said, B-Die and DJR run completely differently on RKL. You just have to choose your own sweetspot based on your RAM. If you're lucky, you'll sit at the higher end with stability. If you're not, you either go one notch down or go to Gear 2. But honestly anything less than 4400Mhz on Gear 2 isn't worth the time.


----------



## satinghostrider

PhoenixMDA said:


> @satinghostrider
> This was the question on me, i have said i can´t say it can be good or worse, it give´s no experience with unify x and CML, but Apex xiii and Z490-I are not the best choice.
> Apex XII is arround 4500/4533 avg.


I think if you're B-Die you have to accept it's limits with RKL. Otherwise it would have been solved by bios updates by now. Which it already has improved quite abit on M13A with newer bios updates by Shamino and team. DJR, been golden since a few revisions of BIOS since launch. I doubt there would be much improvement to B-Die dual rank on high frequency moving forward and I myself am not sure if it's the memory kits, the CPU IMC or the board.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Im also dont think that much more is possible on M13A with B-DIE,there it´s better for gear 2 to use mem like DJR.
I think the max. stable boarder from the sticks 2x16GB B-Die is around 4800-4900 if you have really good sticks and no board/imc limit.

On cml 4666 is my 100% stable boarder because of imc, 4700 it´s possible to do GSat and memtest but not in every boot.4770 was my boot limit with the cpu.
I don´t change to rkl for me it´s no improvement from my setup.


----------



## satinghostrider

PhoenixMDA said:


> Im also dont think that much more is possible on M13A with B-DIE,there it´s better for gear 2 to use mem like DJR.
> I think the max. stable boarder from the sticks 2x16GB B-Die is around 4800-4900 if you have really good sticks and no board/imc limit.
> 
> On cml 4666 is my 100% stable boarder because of imc, 4700 it´s possible to do GSat and memtest but not in every boot.4770 was my boot limit with the cpu.
> I don´t change to rkl for me it´s no improvement from my setup.


CML was alot easier to hit higher frequency. I really don't think there will be much more improvement given DDR5 boards will be out with new CPUs. RKL is probably harder as the new memory controller and how it clocks is different. I think just be happy with whatever max speed you can hit as it isn't worth trying out better memory kits nor expecting new BIOSes to miraculously change things for Gear 1 as there is an obvious hardware limit on these things with the kind of ram nands you run particularly on RKL.


----------



## YaqY

PhoenixMDA said:


> Im also dont think that much more is possible on M13A with B-DIE,there it´s better for gear 2 to use mem like DJR.
> I think the max. stable boarder from the sticks 2x16GB B-Die is around 4800-4900 if you have really good sticks and no board/imc limit.
> 
> On cml 4666 is my 100% stable boarder because of imc, 4700 it´s possible to do GSat and memtest but not in every boot.4770 was my boot limit with the cpu.
> I don´t change to rkl for me it´s no improvement from my setup.


The thing I have found with Asus boards is they are not forgiving if your sticks aren’t high quality or well matching, but if you have a strong set of ram then they will produce amazing results. But I do agree the Apex XII seems ideal for cml and the XIII for rocketlake.


----------



## IronAge

Not to speak of the price, better binned B-Die DR cost a little fortune.

On the other hand you can get less expensive DJR Kits, and many of them do 4600 and more.


----------



## ALSTER868

del


----------



## PhoenixMDA

[


YaqY said:


> The thing I have found with Asus boards is they are not forgiving if your sticks aren’t high quality or well matching, but if you have a strong set of ram then they will produce amazing results. But I do agree the Apex XII seems ideal for cml and the XIII for rocketlake.


I ever set the slopes for the training in 24/7, i dont trust the auto Training.
Its also possible to get really good results with not so good ram, but that mean much work nothing out of the box and nothing without to set slopes.
And the possible mhz is than lower or less subs, with auto slopes is the stable boarder most time 1-2 Step lower.


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> eh.. mine is better bro..
> 
> you are basing unify-x supposed performance from toppc who binned rams and cpu.
> 
> theres no data to show its even any good for actual stable ram timings/chipset.


hello, my results bad?


----------



## YaqY

YoungChris said:


> hello, my results bad?


People are talking daily settings here, not XOC setups.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> hello, my results bad?


u did hci etc stable on bdie dr 4800 bro? thats what the quote was about..


----------



## Nizzen

Why did Intel make the cache in Rocketlake 20% slower (higher latency) than Cometlake?
It looks like epic fail to me. "20%" higher ipc goes in the toilet with the slow cache...


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Why did Intel make the cache in Rocketlake 20% slower (higher latency) than Cometlake?
> It looks like epic fail to me. "20%" higher ipc goes in the toilet with the slow cache...


i think this a mix architecture shift + 14nm issue

its all prelude to alderlake + 2imc + full fivr.


----------



## eeroo94

Nizzen said:


> Why did Intel make the cache in Rocketlake 20% slower (higher latency) than Cometlake?
> It looks like epic fail to me. "20%" higher ipc goes in the toilet with the slow cache...


Because they increased the L1 data cache from 32KiB to 48KiB, you cant increase L1 cache size without latency penalty generally.


----------



## Nizzen

eeroo94 said:


> Because they increased the L1 data cache from 32KiB to 48KiB, you cant increase L1 cache size without latency penalty generally.


Well congratulation to Intel. 32KiB cache to 48 KiB cache did nothing for performance in games for a "gaming cpu". They nerfed themself 
20% higher latency is way too much.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> Well congratulation to Intel. 32KiB cache to 48 KiB cache did nothing for performance in games for a "gaming cpu". They nerfed themself
> 20% higher latency is way too much.


I think the year´s without competitor have they make also sluggish.
The innovation with 3d cache on amd side is for me more interesting.I think it´s possible that this is in every case faster as my setup with cml.

But RKL is a good cpu for benching like superpi or new ddr4 record´s.


----------



## Jwick

Nizzen said:


> Well congratulation to Intel. 32KiB cache to 48 KiB cache did nothing for performance in games for a "gaming cpu". They nerfed themself
> 20% higher latency is way too much.


not simping for intel but we dont know why they increased it in the first place. it could be something related with the architecture needing it.


----------



## Jwick

one thing i know is that amd's architecture has really high avg but 0.1/1% lows are lower than intel.I feel amd is focusing on marketing instead of "Actual performance" . why because avg doesnt matter if your frame time consistency sucks and if 1% are really low.All the companies want their share holders happy not the consumers remember that so they will do anything to fool the consumers to increase their share market. Unfortunately that is the world we are in.......................................sigh..................................


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> one thing i know is that amd's architecture has really high avg but 0.1/1% lows are lower than intel.I feel amd is focusing on marketing instead of "Actual performance" . why because avg doesnt matter if your frame time consistency sucks and if 1% are really low.All the companies want their share holders happy not the consumers remember that so they will do anything to fool the consumers to increase their share market. Unfortunately that is the world we are in.......................................sigh..................................


Yep, I have all the flavors here 10900k,11900k,5950x etc... When the AMD cache is full, the performance drops (min fps). Maybe that's why they are coming with 5900x with extra cache soon.
Some games is still the best with 10900k and some with 5950x. Very few games that 11900k is actual winning over ~35ns 10900k system.


----------



## yianni

does anyone ave BIOS settings for 11900k on asrock oc formula. i usually use asus M/Bs but decided to switch. havent found much online


----------



## D-EJ915

yianni said:


> does anyone ave BIOS settings for 11900k on asrock oc formula. i usually use asus M/Bs but decided to switch. havent found much online


mllrkllr88 posted a bunch of stuff here: ASRock Z590 OC Formula Overclocking Thread


----------



## yianni

D-EJ915 said:


> mllrkllr88 posted a bunch of stuff here: ASRock Z590 OC Formula Overclocking Thread


Yup I saw that afterwards, but I was looking for something a little more comprehensive. I still mess around with it thanks.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> For me, CB23 requires less voltages than CB20 or Prime.
> This pic shows 5.4ghz passed cb20 23 prime at the same voltage.
> 
> I have experienced with 3 11900ks, SP 89 93 89, and
> they are almost the same for 5.2~5.4Ghz. But they have difference in IMC.
> FYI, Here is the profile I posted here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50661717_BIOS0901_Z590 Apex.CMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] Prime 1Hr
> 
> 
> New item added to shared album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos.app.goo.gl


very nice setting .. gave me a insight on 
why i was facing issue running
51|46 for 5kc17


----------



## satinghostrider

Seems that bios 0903 needs around 1.28V SA/IO to run 4800C19 compared to 1.2V SA/IO on 07xx/0901 bioses for DR DJR if it helps anyone. No wonder some having issues with 0903 and memory overclocking and could be related to lower than normal SA/IO voltages required for these bioses.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

satinghostrider said:


> Seems that bios 0903 needs around 1.28V SA/IO to run 4800C19 compared to 1.2V SA/IO on 07xx/0901 bioses for DR DJR if it helps anyone. No wonder some having issues with 0903 and memory overclocking and could be related to lower than normal SA/IO voltages required for these bioses.


Thats why I went back to 0902.


----------



## Groove2013

satinghostrider said:


> Seems that bios 0903 needs around 1.28V SA/IO to run 4800C19 compared to 1.2V SA/IO on 07xx/0901 bioses for DR DJR if it helps anyone. No wonder some having issues with 0903 and memory overclocking and could be related to lower than normal SA/IO voltages required for these bioses.


@shamino1978 @safedisk can something be done in upcoming BIOS version(s) to revert currently required SA/IO voltage values being much higher with BIOS 0903 (Apex 13) to (much) lower values, closer to those observed with BIOS 07XX/0901/0902 (Apex 13)?


----------



## yianni

so right now im running a single 360 rad since PPC sent me the wrong one then ill have 2 360s

my temps with a 3080 on water and 11900k(stock speed) my temps are around 70 gaming with cpu only at 25% but gpu at 90+ is that normal? idle its at 30-35

im assuming its because a single 360 isnt sufficient


----------



## cstkl1

yianni said:


> so right now im running a single 360 rad since PPC sent me the wrong one then ill have 2 360s
> 
> my temps with a 3080 on water and 11900k(stock speed) my temps are around 70 gaming with cpu only at 25% but gpu at 90+ is that normal? idle its at 30-35
> 
> im assuming its because a single 360 isnt sufficient


if its on the same loop ure cpu temps wont be better than even a normal coolermaster air cooler... because of the gpu heatdump.

go two 360 50 or better yet two loop. the new ampere gpus put out so much heat.. its better just to separate them. but this then has another issue when two loop is heatdump into the casing.. thats why i like the new o11 evo which allows us to run back btx style hence the top rad for gpu for exhaust.


----------



## yianni

cstkl1 said:


> if its on the same loop ure cpu temps wont be better than even a normal coolermaster air cooler... because of the gpu heatdump.
> 
> go two 360 50 or better yet two loop. the new ampere gpus put out so much heat.. its better just to separate them. but this then has another issue when two loop is heatdump into the casing.. thats why i like the new o11 evo which allows us to run back btx style hence the top rad for gpu for exhaust.


I'm planning on two 360s but ppcs sent me the wrong one. The one I have now is temporarily in so I have a pc. I don't have a exhaust fan yet either so my case is prolly real hot

Gpu is at about 60 and cpu at 80 while gaming

Although at only 25%, load and at 80 degrees it seems so high. How much lower will another 360 get to you think? 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

yianni said:


> I'm planning on two 360s but ppcs sent me the wrong one. The one I have now is temporarily in so I have a pc. I don't have a exhaust fan yet either so my case is prolly real hot
> 
> Gpu is at about 60 and cpu at 80 while gaming
> 
> Although at only 25%, load and at 80 degrees it seems so high. How much lower will another 360 get to you think?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


watercooling depends on ambient temp
and then comes efficiency of heat removal
efficiency falls under
size of rad, waterblocks used, pump flow,
fans, your loop config etc

so ure expectation of answer is gonna be vague at best.


----------



## yianni

cstkl1 said:


> watercooling depends on ambient temp
> and then comes efficiency of heat removal
> efficiency falls under
> size of rad, waterblocks used, pump flow,
> fans, your loop config etc
> 
> so ure expectation of answer is gonna be vague at best.


Both my blocks are Optimus. Using black ice gtx rads. My pump which is a d5 is running at 50% or so

Also using corsair ml120s

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

yianni said:


> I'm planning on two 360s but ppcs sent me the wrong one. The one I have now is temporarily in so I have a pc. I don't have a exhaust fan yet either so my case is prolly real hot
> 
> Gpu is at about 60 and cpu at 80 while gaming
> 
> Although at only 25%, load and at 80 degrees it seems so high. How much lower will another 360 get to you think?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk











Water Cooling







www.overclock.net


----------



## yianni

cstkl1 said:


> Water Cooling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Sorry what's that! 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## IronAge

yianni said:


> Sorry what's that!


the sub-forum where you should post questions about water cooling stuff.


----------



## heavyrain

heavyrain said:


> 13





PhoenixMDA said:


> 490i was the most





PhoenixMDA said:


> @satinghostrider
> This was the question on me, i have said i can´t say it can be good or worse, it give´s no experience with unify x and CML, but Apex xiii and Z490-I are not the best choice.
> Apex XII is arround 4500/4533 avg.
> RKL the most people reach better result´s in gear1 in FPS.


Sorry，I should correct my mistake. Not M13A in my post(M13A is a clerical error, what I want to say is M12A ), I want to say the Unify-X with CML VS Z490I or M12A with CML. So, on CML if I use DR BDIE, best choice is M12A?


----------



## PhoenixMDA

If you want to be sure that it works good is M12A the safest way.
In most cases arround 4400-4600Mhz is possible to get stable with 2x16GB B-Die.It's a question of IMC, Bin of ram and how good you are to find right value's voltage's/subs.


----------



## cstkl1

heavyrain said:


> Sorry，I should correct my mistake. Not M13A in my post(M13A is a clerical error, what I want to say is M12A ), I want to say the Unify-X with CML VS Z490I or M12A with CML. So, on CML if I use DR BDIE, best choice is M12A?


a heavily optimized 10900k + m12A is VERY hard to beat even for zen.


----------



## D-EJ915

The Z490 dark is a nice board too for 10 series and want a new one, not sure if 12 apex is still available new.


----------



## Jwick

D-EJ915 said:


> The Z490 dark is a nice board too for 10 series and want a new one, not sure if 12 apex is still available new.


naa its not dont get the dark it sucks. get the dark kp instead. but both of them has some kind of current limit so u cannot go really high on cpu core/cache. memory is good on the dark kp but its picky.


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> Well congratulation to Intel. 32KiB cache to 48 KiB cache did nothing for performance in games for a "gaming cpu". They nerfed themself
> 20% higher latency is way too much.


Did they improve the bios for gaming with the 11900k (1st gear) to get equal or better results than 10900k with dual rank B-die.


----------



## YaqY

menko2 said:


> Did they improve the bios for gaming with the 11900k (1st gear) to get equal or better results than 10900k with dual rank B-die.


Doubt you are going to see any more improvements on gear 1 speeds, all down to imc and motherboard/ram quality at this point, imc seems to be the biggest factor of all.


----------



## menko2

YaqY said:


> Doubt you are going to see any more improvements on gear 1 speeds, all down to imc and motherboard/ram quality at this point, imc seems to be the biggest factor of all.


My idea is to keep the 10900k in the XIII HERO until a new GPU comes up next year and will need the PCIe4 so it won't bottleneck. 

Now with the 10900k and 3090 kingpin is a good set up until new GPUs will demand PCIe4.


----------



## morph.

menko2 said:


> Did they improve the bios for gaming with the 11900k (1st gear) to get equal or better results than 10900k with dual rank B-die.



Realistically you are probably looking at a difference of 2-3fps from 3733 to 3866 gear 1 dr bdie and this would predominately impact 1080p gaming more than say 1440p or 4k. 

With an SP93 10900k, how come you aren't pushing 5.3ghz all core or are you limited with thermal headroom/cooling?


----------



## menko2

morph. said:


> Realistically you are probably looking at a difference of 2-3fps from 3733 to 3866 gear 1 dr bdie and this would predominately impact 1080p gaming more than say 1440p or 4k.
> 
> With an SP93 10900k, how come you aren't pushing 5.3ghz all core or are you limited with thermal headroom/cooling?


I have a AIO Arctic Freezer II 420 but here in Spain it's so hot you can't imagine. 40°C heatwave.

I have to wait for the summer to finish to play with the bios and voltages. Way too hot.

Now I'm with 5.0ghz core and 4.7ghz ring. 
1.33v core and LLC 4.


----------



## IronAge

@menko2 

Just buy this, heat problems solved.









Aohuada Enfriador de agua industrial de 8 litros, refrigerador de agua CW-5200 Thermolysis Industrial Water Cooler Chiller para máquinas de grabado CNC de CO2 láser, 50 Hz : Amazon.es: Hogar y cocina


Aohuada Enfriador de agua industrial de 8 litros, refrigerador de agua CW-5200 Thermolysis Industrial Water Cooler Chiller para máquinas de grabado CNC de CO2 láser, 50 Hz : Amazon.es: Hogar y cocina



www.amazon.es


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> @menko2
> 
> Just buy this, heat problems solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aohuada Enfriador de agua industrial de 8 litros, refrigerador de agua CW-5200 Thermolysis Industrial Water Cooler Chiller para máquinas de grabado CNC de CO2 láser, 50 Hz : Amazon.es: Hogar y cocina
> 
> 
> Aohuada Enfriador de agua industrial de 8 litros, refrigerador de agua CW-5200 Thermolysis Industrial Water Cooler Chiller para máquinas de grabado CNC de CO2 láser, 50 Hz : Amazon.es: Hogar y cocina
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.es


barrows has one thats like half the price.. no review on it so far...


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> barrows has one thats like half the price.. no review on it so far...


Yeah, when you pick it up yourself. 

shipping to Europe is like 230€ + import tax, which has to be paid on the item+shipping costs.

anyhow, did not know that one.


----------



## Groove2013

A chiller most probably makes a lot of noise and draws a lot of power...


----------



## CallMeODZ

Groove2013 said:


> A chiller most probably makes a lot of noise and draws a lot of power...


yep, but you dont need pc in the same room as you
have one ****ty monitor/kb+mouse for oc in same room as pc/chiller

have wall passthrough for good monitor/kb mouse speakers/headphones for gaming (no noise)

as for power consumption lol who cares. thats something AMD say. all the AMD neckbeards saying "want efficiency" while driving to mcdonalds in a ****ty cheap V8 just to fuel their bodies with inefficient foods


----------



## Groove2013

@CallMeODZ I can't make any holes through the whole wall where I live and there is no room where I could have placed a chiller.

I'm on air (Noctua NH-D15*S*) and plan to keep it and next year replace it by its successor.

So I probably will go for max 5.0 GHz (stable Prime95 non-AVX complete custom run with FFTs in-place).
Will delide it for sure and disable HT, maybe.

I'm aware that not only cores will run hot, but also IMC and I won't have any active cooling for RAM.

I understand perfectly that higher CPU+RAM temp will require higher CPU+RAM related voltages, which will increase temp even more and frequency and timings won't be as good.

I'm really curious what SP quality my CPU sample will be and also its IMC.

Still waiting for price to drop further.

Now it's already 564€ (Germany) instead of >600€.
I will wait max until end of August or September to buy it.

I could already have bought it by now, but its price isn't justified in any way.
Paying 600 or more to have it as soon as possible while my current rig still functions perfectly fine or just because it's Intel...

Also I'm not that kind of person that would pay close to 1000€ or more for cooling, that will pull another >600W, just for few hundred MHz more, just for nicer synthetic benchmarks numbers.

But I don't judge those who are willing to do this.


----------



## YoungChris

Is there anyone here who can do 3866 gear 1 with 1t on dual rank B-Die through daily stability testing? Without using super loose RTLs or secondaries/tertiaries.


----------



## sugi0lover

YoungChris said:


> Is there anyone here who can do 3866 gear 1 with 1t on dual rank B-Die through daily stability testing? Without using super loose RTLs or secondaries/tertiaries.


My friend showed the possibility of the below and he hasn't put any effort to stabilize yet.
I haven't tried gear 1 1T yet and I will try to stabilize 3866 CL13 or 14 1T this week since I had no problem stabilizing 4700 17 17 17 1T on 10900K + Z490 Apex.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> My friend showed the possibility of the below and he hasn't put any effort to stabilize yet.
> I haven't tried gear 1 1T yet and I will try to stabilize 3866 CL13 or 14 1T this week since I had no problem stabilizing 4700 17 17 17 1T on 10900K + Z490 Apex.
> View attachment 2516812


Tried N:1=1? Normal 1T is N:1=3.


----------



## sugi0lover

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Tried N:1=1? Normal 1T is N:1=3.


Normal 1T may be possible. N:1=1 seems very very hard.
Still normal 1t is better than normal 2t ^^


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Normal 1T may be possible. N:1=1 seems very very hard.
> Still normal 1t is better than normal 2t ^^


i find for gear 1 SR better than DR.. latency and performance.. 
DR has a insane copy though that doesnt make sense cause its higher than read/write.


----------



## satinghostrider

My current setup with 4800C19 with @cstkl1 awesome guide. Had to change my SA/IO to 1.28V as 0903 was failing Kahru from 1.2V to 1
25V. Hope they address this is the new BIOS updates for M13A.

CPU is a SP83 and just switched on ABT for overclocking. Find ABT on for daily abit high for temps even for custom loop.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> i find for gear 1 SR better than DR.. latency and performance..
> DR has a insane copy though that doesnt make sense cause its higher than read/write.


In what? AIDA64, or something that actually measures performance?

Because AIDA64 doesn't measure any kind of relevant or interesting performance, it's impossible to find a correlation between AIDA64 numbers and actual performance in games or benchmarks.


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> In what? AIDA64, or something that actually measures performance?
> 
> Because AIDA64 doesn't measure any kind of relevant or interesting performance, it's impossible to find a correlation between AIDA64 numbers and actual performance in games or benchmarks.


in game.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Tried N:1=1? Normal 1T is N:1=3.


1t is not n:1=3

n:1=3 is 33% slower on turnaround completion (coverage speed) than 1t even-though aida shows similar.


----------



## Jwick

no dual rank will always give more performance. (IN GAME)


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> 1t is not n:1=3
> 
> n:1=3 is 33% slower on turnaround completion (coverage speed) than 1t even-though aida shows similar.


On msi board, set 1N equals to N:1=3 according to intel spec. You need to set "real 1N" or N:1=1 to get the true 1N mode.

But this may vary between vendors.
=============================================
Edit:
On M13A:

1N









N:1=3









Cant even post N:1=2. Seems Asus also sets 1N=(N:1=3).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

And that's how you can post 3866 14-14 1t by one click


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> On msi board, set 1N equals to N:1=3 according to intel spec. You need to set "real 1N" or N:1=1 to get the true 1N mode.
> 
> But this may vary between vendors.
> =============================================
> Edit:
> On M13A:
> 
> 1N
> View attachment 2516891
> 
> 
> N:1=3
> View attachment 2516892
> 
> 
> Cant even post N:1=2. Seems Asus also sets 1N=(N:1=3).


run tm5 1usmusv3

auto 4mins per cycle
n=3 5 mins 19sec

both bandwidth shows same but turnaround per cycle says a diff story.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> And that's how you can post 3866 14-14 1t by one click
> View attachment 2516893


err i dont need that bro to post enter windows 
setting 1t works. just cannot run any stress test = bsod


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> err i dont need that bro to post enter windows
> setting 1t works. just cannot run any stress test = bsod


Did 4 tests, 2 in gear 1 and 2 in gear 2. Using RMTP 5.0 for 10% coverage.

In gear 1:
"1n"









"N:1=3"









In gear 2:

"1N"









"N:1=3"









Seems in gear 1 they doesn't have much difference but in gear 2 "1N" is faster.

Cant boot N:1=1 yet so haven't tested.

Seems on Asus "N:1=3" and "1N" are different based on the gear 2 results.


----------



## YaqY

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Did 4 tests, 2 in gear 1 and 2 in gear 2. Using RMTP 5.0 for 10% coverage.
> 
> In gear 1:
> "1n"
> View attachment 2516938
> 
> 
> "N:1=3"
> View attachment 2516939
> 
> 
> In gear 2:
> 
> "1N"
> View attachment 2516940
> 
> 
> "N:1=3"
> View attachment 2516941
> 
> 
> Seems in gear 1 they doesn't have much difference but in gear 2 "1N" is faster.
> 
> Cant boot N:1=1 yet so haven't tested.
> 
> Seems on Asus "N:1=3" and "1N" are different based on the gear 2 results.


In gear 2, 1N is effectively 2N. From intel directly they state.
"In Gear2 MC uses only the low phase of Dclk for commands, effectively doing a 2N by default.
Setting 2N in Gear2 will result in 4N at DDR interface"


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

YaqY said:


> In gear 2, 1N is effectively 2N. From intel directly they state.
> "In Gear2 MC uses only the low phase of Dclk for commands, effectively doing a 2N by default.
> Setting 2N in Gear2 will result in 4N at DDR interface"


It was not "1N" and "2N" we were talking about. We were talking about the "n to 1 ratio mode".










Gear 2 magnifies the difference in command rates so on Asus MBs the "1N" should be different from "N:1=3" based on the test results.


----------



## sachsawk

Hello everyone. I'm having serious issues trying to stabilize my RAM at 3733 or 3866. Both boot just fine and i've been trying to play with Vdimm, Mcio and SA voltages but no dice so far... Kit is new Gskill Trident Z Royal Elite 3600 14-14-34 2x16gb. Any tips on voltages would be appreciated. Karhu starts to give errors in few minutes... Tried Mcio and SA up to 1.65v and different combinations in between. Vdimm 1.5-1.55... Or is my IMC just that bad... SP72 chip... Using Bios 0903 atm and board is XIII Apex.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sachsawk said:


> Hello everyone. I'm having serious issues trying to stabilize my RAM at 3733 or 3866. Both boot just fine and i've been trying to play with Vdimm, Mcio and SA voltages but no dice so far... Kit is new Gskill Trident Z Royal Elite 3600 14-14-34 2x16gb. Any tips on voltages would be appreciated. Karhu starts to give errors in few minutes... Tried Mcio and SA up to 1.65v and different combinations in between. Vdimm 1.5-1.55... Or is my IMC just that bad... SP72 chip... Using Bios 0903 atm and board is XIII Apex.


What's the highest clock you can boot with only one stick?


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2516836
> 
> 
> My current setup with 4800C19 with @cstkl1 awesome guide. Had to change my SA/IO to 1.28V as 0903 was failing Kahru from 1.2V to 1
> 25V. Hope they address this is the new BIOS updates for M13A.
> 
> CPU is a SP83 and just switched on ABT for overclocking. Find ABT on for daily abit high for temps even for custom loop.


Very similar scores  mines at 3733 g1 c14s my 3866 g1 boot seems hit and miss... 

















I scored 20 802 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> Very similar scores  mines at 3733 g1 c14s my 3866 g1 boot seems hit and miss...
> 
> View attachment 2517263
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 20 802 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Wow pretty much similar scores. Basically G1 Vs G2 comparison on Timespy. My CPU isn't overclocked though I just switched ABT ON to save me the hassle of manually tweaking stuff. Works very well for quick benchmark runs.


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1007 UPDATE*


1. Some bug fixes

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1007

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1007

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1007

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1007


----------



## morph.

safedisk said:


> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1007 UPDATE*
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1007


@safedisk @shamino1978 Any love and further improvements for the Z490 Maximus Formula especially with for gear 1 3866 and gear 2 for DR B die please would be much appreciated.

I can't get my F4-4000C14D-32GTES to post @3866MHz 14-14-14-28 consistently.


----------



## satinghostrider

safedisk said:


> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1007 UPDATE*
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1007


@safedisk Thank you! Any change log in particular on this or if it solves the high SA/IO for many kits? TIA!


----------



## yahfz

anyone else having awfully long post times with the 1007 bios on the m13h?


----------



## bscool

safedisk said:


> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1007 UPDATE*
> 
> 
> 1. Some bug fixes
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1007


Just flashed to z590 Apex and now with bios 1007 when PTT is disabled it still shows enabled in bios after saving and exiting bios. Looks like it is disabled in Windows though from what I can see.

Edit looks like it is tied to Trusted Computing, disabling there turns it off in Windows.


----------



## yianni

what temps is everyone getting i ran small fft on on stock clock and my cpu went to like 95 degrees using 2 360radiators. this is on a 11900k


----------



## Groove2013

yianni said:


> what temps is everyone getting i ran small fft on on stock clock and my cpu went to like 95 degrees using 2 360radiators. this is on a 11900k


Prime95 version not mentioned, whether AVX512, AVX2/FMA3, AVX or non-AVX, custom or not, FFTs in-place or not, how small, radiators thickness, which pump, coolant flow rate, how many, which fans and speed used, delidded or not, case model and number of fans or open bench.

0 info = 0 help/answers.


----------



## yianni

Groove2013 said:


> Prime95 version not mentioned, whether AVX512, AVX2/FMA3, AVX or non-AVX, custom or not, FFTs in-place or not, how small, radiators thickness, which pump, coolant flow rate, how many, which fans and speed used, delidded or not, case model and number of fans or open bench.
> 
> 0 info = 0 help/answers.


 its just prime95. no avx. not custom FFTs. it's the default settings that prime95 has.

54mm thickness radiators. 6 ML120 fans fan running at 2k RPM. its a D5 at about 50%. no idea on flow rate. and 1 ML120 fan on the back on the enthoo 719 case


----------



## Falkentyne

yianni said:


> its just prime95. no avx. not custom FFTs. it's the default settings that prime95 has.
> 
> 54mm thickness radiators. 6 ML120 fans fan running at 2k RPM. its a D5 at about 50%. no idea on flow rate. and 1 ML120 fan on the back on the enthoo 719 case


There's no such thing as "no avx" under default settings unless you're using an obsolete super old version.
If you just ran prime95 (again--which VERSION OF PRIME95??? this MATTERS, dude), then it runs FMA3 by default. (unless it runs AVX512 by default).
You need to reorganize your prime95 windows and not have them a bunch of jumbled up squished windows, to see what test is running. A lot of people don't take the time to do that.


----------



## Nizzen

yianni said:


> what temps is everyone getting i ran small fft on on stock clock and my cpu went to like 95 degrees using 2 360radiators. this is on a 11900k


I play games on my 11900k.

I don't play prime 95 on any of my computers, neither should you 

It's like driving a car in gear 1 on the highway flat down. Why bother


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> I play games on my 11900k.
> 
> I don't play prime 95 on any of my computers, neither should you
> 
> It's like driving a car in gear 1 on the highway flat down. Why bother


Absolutely. And the 11900k has been the most stable to date gaming with anything I throw at it. My fps and frametimes are absolutely stable and very fluid with very minor frame drops in some scenes. If anyone wants to know how Gear 2 4800MHz CL19 (Gear 2) + Stock 11900k + RTX 3090 performs, I've just opened a channel here. You can see the stats on what I'm getting.



https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEVMw4WftL_5cWhn-sOMIGlQTKGVqqcrw



Many are so caught up pushing gear 1 to run as high as they can just for a few more FPS which isn't even guaranteed to run stable at higher SA/IO voltages. Not saying gear 1 is bad but it should not ruin your quest to enjoy gaming just because you can't run higher that others who can. This platform is already plenty fast for modern games out of the box.

@Nizzen At some point, we have to change to Gear 2 on the highway for higher speed. 😉


----------



## shamino1978

morph. said:


> @safedisk @shamino1978 Any love and further improvements for the Z490 Maximus Formula especially with for gear 1 3866 and gear 2 for DR B die please would be much appreciated.
> 
> I can't get my F4-4000C14D-32GTES to post @3866MHz 14-14-14-28 consistently.


you can try moded, not sure if helps. set maximus tweak to mode2 for the "tweak":








M14F_2301_test.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## morph.

shamino1978 said:


> you can try moded, not sure if helps. set maximus tweak to mode2 for the "tweak":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M14F_2301_test.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


@shamino1978 @safedisk oolala thankyou! Got it, so Maximus tweak mode 2 for Gear mode 1.

What is the notable difference to know with this test bios?

While I have your attention I've also been seeing this in my event log lately on bios v2201:


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> @shamino1978 @safedisk oolala thankyou! Got it, so Maximus tweak mode 2 for Gear mode 1.
> 
> What is the notable difference to know with this test bios?
> 
> While I have your attention I've also been seeing this in my event log lately on bios v2201:
> View attachment 2517349


I also want to know...
I have 4 messages like that every time I boot with my Maximus XII Formula Bios 2103 and an 10900kf.


----------



## morph.

satinghostrider said:


> Absolutely. And the 11900k has been the most stable to date gaming with anything I throw at it. My fps and frametimes are absolutely stable and very fluid with very minor frame drops in some scenes. If anyone wants to know how Gear 2 4800MHz CL19 (Gear 2) + Stock 11900k + RTX 3090 performs, I've just opened a channel here. You can see the stats on what I'm getting.
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEVMw4WftL_5cWhn-sOMIGlQTKGVqqcrw
> 
> 
> 
> Many are so caught up pushing gear 1 to run as high as they can just for a few more FPS which isn't even guaranteed to run stable at higher SA/IO voltages. Not saying gear 1 is bad but it should not ruin your quest to enjoy gaming just because you can't run higher that others who can. This platform is already plenty fast for modern games out of the box.
> 
> @Nizzen At some point, we have to change to Gear 2 on the highway for higher speed. 😉


What if I want it all haha... Still been playing where I can, yeah its not be all end all but I would really really like 3866 instead of 3733 and the extra couple of FPS....:

WZ:









OR:


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> What if I want it all haha... Still been playing where I can, yeah its not be all end all but I would really really like 3866 instead of 3733 and the extra couple of FPS....:
> 
> WZ:
> View attachment 2517369
> 
> 
> OR:
> View attachment 2517370


Nice. Unfortunately I don't play WZ. Hate battle royale. But if you're playing Coldwar, we sure as hell could do some damage.


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> What if I want it all haha... Still been playing where I can, yeah its not be all end all but I would really really like 3866 instead of 3733 and the extra couple of FPS....:
> 
> WZ:
> View attachment 2517369
> 
> 
> OR:
> View attachment 2517370












its flying at 4800c17


----------



## shamino1978

RobertoSampaio said:


> I also want to know...
> I have 4 messages like that every time I boot with my Maximus XII Formula Bios 2103 and an 10900kf.


Dont need to pay attention to that, ec could generate an interrupt for some function or sometimes when accessed by 3rd Party toolsw. No worries


----------



## Groove2013

Anybody already tested BIOS 1007 to see if it requires lower SA/IO voltages than few previous BIOSes?


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> @shamino1978 @safedisk oolala thankyou! Got it, so Maximus tweak mode 2 for Gear mode 1.
> 
> What is the notable difference to know with this test bios?
> 
> While I have your attention I've also been seeing this in my event log lately on bios v2201:
> View attachment 2517349


try diff vtt for dual rank on high vdimm.


----------



## cstkl1

its possible 3866 sa 1.35, mcio 1.05


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> try diff vtt for dual rank on high vdimm.


Nah admittedly I've left that value to auto, Any recommendations on what value ranges to try?


----------



## cstkl1

morph. said:


> Nah admittedly I've left that value to auto, Any recommendations on what value ranges to try?


u just got to try ...

its not a definitive thing..


----------



## YaqY

morph. said:


> Nah admittedly I've left that value to auto, Any recommendations on what value ranges to try?


It is auto at 0.5*Vdimm so try more or less on that value.


----------



## D-EJ915

evga posted their dark board, $600



https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=121-RL-E599-KR


----------



## IronAge

Finally notify possible for EVGA Z590 Dark:



https://www.evga.com/articles/01501/EVGA-E599-Dark/



(Notify reserved for EVGA Elite Members for 24h)


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> Finally notify possible for EVGA Z590 Dark:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.evga.com/articles/01501/EVGA-E599-Dark/


Evga is allways too late. When we benchmarked cpu's with z590 Apex since mars/april and waiting for nex gen cpu's, EVGA announsing z590 Dark. 6 months later, and "10" motherboards is in stock 😂


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Evga is allways too late. When we benchmarked cpu's with z590 Apex since mars/april and waiting for nex gen cpu's, EVGA announsing z590 Dark. 6 months later, and "10" motherboards is in stock 😂


yeah
the only time they actually sold decent dark was the x299 dark.. because that chipset lasted quite a while..


----------



## IronAge

The sexy DDR5 Kits will be expensive, same for the Z690 Boards, DDR5/PCIe5 support.adds costs.

I am on a budget for these things, so i will stick to Z590/RKL for some time.

Most likely skip Alder Lake and probably wait for Meteor Lake.

I wish EVGA was first to the market, would have saved me some buys.


----------



## Groove2013

4800 MHz 19-19-19 gear 2 with 2x16 GB 4266 MHz 17-18-18 on a Z590 Dark.


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> 4800 MHz 19-19-19 gear 2 with 2x16 GB 4266 MHz 17-18-18 on a Z590 Dark.


4400mhz gear 1 with 2x16, or whatever


----------



## Groove2013

Nizzen said:


> 4400mhz gear 1 with 2x16, or whatever


???


----------



## Groove2013

Looks like Apex really sucks vs. Dark.
Because 4800 MHz dual rank Samsung is unattainable by any Apex and I think it will stay like this.

Maybe it's due to 10 layers Dark PCB.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> 4800 MHz 19-19-19 gear 2 with 2x16 GB 4266 MHz 17-18-18 on a Z590 Dark.


errr apex sr 4800c17 higher than that.. read 76k, write 75k, copy 72600


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Looks like Apex really sucks vs. Dark.
> Because 4800 MHz dual rank Samsung is unattainable by any Apex and I think it will stay like this.
> 
> Maybe it's due to 10 layers Dark PCB.


c19.. hmmm 
might as well go djr and do 5066c19 2x16gb

bdies fly @c17 and lower..


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 4400mhz gear 1 with 2x16, or whatever


yeah. dr.. i dont get it even 4600 for apex
if u set 98.6 with 4600 divider and increase with turboV in windows.. its stable @1.48 for my kit

but cannot boot directly 4600.. weird.

just a bit more and it will be trading blows with a sr 4800c17 kit..


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> errr apex sr 4800 higher than that.. copy 72600


Nobody cares about only 16 GB anymore.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Nobody cares about only 16 GB anymore.


guess u didnt listen to his vid..
"he said sr 5000 copy lower than dr @4800"

apex sr almost da same as dr.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> guess u didnt listen to his vid..
> "he said sr 5000 copy lower than dr @4800"
> 
> apex sr almost da same as dr.


It's only 16 GB. Not interesting.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> It's only 16 GB. Not interesting.


lol. u dont get it

conclusion of the vid
evga sux in that case for sr/dr bdieunless ure just chasing for oc without actual performance
but want to feel good that ure running 4800c19 2x16gb which a usd 130 klevv kit can do...

2x16gb 4533c17 .. 51|46 has 43.4ns aida and copy just under 71k


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> lol. u dont get it
> 
> conclusion of the vid
> evga sux in that case for sr/dr bdieunless ure just chasing for oc without actual performance
> but want to feel good that ure running 4800c19 2x16gb which a usd 130 klevv kit can do...
> 
> 2x16gb 4533c17 .. 51|46 has 43.4ns aida and copy just under 71k


It wasn't tuned to the tightest/lowest possible in the video.
There is still place for improvement.

Primary timings no, but the rest yes.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> It wasn't tuned to the tightest/lowest possible in the video.
> There is still place for improvement.
> 
> Primary timings no, but the rest yes.


if it could... he would.... but da board couldnt..

lol

cause it sux.


----------



## CallMeODZ

evga are idiots for leaving their releases so late. its not like now they are going to take user feedback and make big changes to bios like asus has been doing since launch.
sucks cause id love to buy a dark


----------



## satinghostrider

CallMeODZ said:


> evga are idiots for leaving their releases so late. its not like now they are going to take user feedback and make big changes to bios like asus has been doing since launch.
> sucks cause id love to buy a dark


And they have significantly less users to test BIOSes or what needs to be fixed by making that board so exclusive. I really doubt their BIOS is going to shine against what the Apex can do currently in terms of the different configs of RAMs like Hynix DJR, Samsung B-Die, etc. The test base for Asus boards particularly the Apex is the reason why I even went ahead with this board in the first place. Issues and incompatibilities just gets fixed faster alongside system performance enhancements only because they have users with various RAMs testing it for them. I do not see EVGA and their user base being able to do this due to the sheer exclusivity of these boards.


----------



## CallMeODZ

satinghostrider said:


> And they have significantly less users to test BIOSes or what needs to be fixed by making that board so exclusive. I really doubt their BIOS is going to shine against what the Apex can do currently in terms of the different configs of RAMs like Hynix DJR, Samsung B-Die, etc. The test base for Asus boards particularly the Apex is the reason why I even went ahead with this board in the first place. Issues and incompatibilities just gets fixed faster alongside system performance enhancements only because they have users with various RAMs testing it for them. I do not see EVGA and their user base being able to do this due to the sheer exclusivity of these boards.


100% agree. if you have a read through their forum and look at all the people who brought the hybrid kits for 3080/90 they had such a **** time getting help from evga for swapping out the bioses from a xc3 to hybrid. i think its safe to assume they'd have the same approach to their motherboards and i have a feeling they wont update qvl for newly released hardware such as gen4 ssds 

i hope they hire more people for the new x570 boards so they can have a dedicated motherboard team rather than hiring homeless people to bring kingpin coffee and keep him chained to the marketing machine


----------



## yahfz

Has anybody ever done 3866 g1 DR on the m13h yet? it seems like if you wanna do 3866 g1 the apex is pretty much a REQUIREMENT.


----------



## cstkl1

yahfz said:


> Has anybody ever done 3866 g1 DR on the m13h yet? it seems like if you wanna do 3866 g1 the apex is pretty much a REQUIREMENT.


i got extreme to work which is what @owikh84
posted

and 3866 been workinng since day 1 back in december 2020 bios 02xx on that board. in comparison apex is a pain in da ass compared to extreme on 3866

so expecting hero to work just need more work by user.

the work seriously depends on the ram kit quality

here an example on two 4800c17 kit

first one was a pain needed mode 2 for 4800 straight 17 tune
BUT it ran at stock sa/io..
yes bro STOCK 0.85, 1v
5kc17-5066c17 bench only

2nd stick.. easy mode 1
but needs 1.2 sa/io
can do 5kc17 stable karhu and hci BUT
will bsod if i run tm5 1usmuzv3.. hoping new ram block fixes that..


----------



## Groove2013

Still no word on what was changed/fixed in the BIOS 1007...


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Still no word on what was changed/fixed in the BIOS 1007...


bug fixes.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> bug fixes.


For example? Too high SA/IO?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> For example? Too high SA/IO?


was told bug fixes. so nothing to do with that..

i personally use either 0801 or 0901


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> i personally use either 0801 or 0901


Why?


----------



## satinghostrider

Groove2013 said:


> Why?


Memory clocking stability with low SA/IO voltages primarily.

Eg; DJR needs only 1.2V SA/IO on 0901 but 0902/0903 needs 1.28V SA/IO for me to be stable.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> Still no word on what was changed/fixed in the BIOS 1007...


Options for win11.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Options for win11.


?


----------



## pipeclock

yahfz said:


> Has anybody ever done 3866 g1 DR on the m13h yet? it seems like if you wanna do 3866 g1 the apex is pretty much a REQUIREMENT.


Easy.


----------



## Jwick

i have a doubt whats the max safe voltage for a daily system on a 11900k with a strong custom loop. Also whats the maximum safe voltage limit using a chiller with a water temp of -10c.Please mention which voltage is it like (die sense/socket sense, vcore on bios, heavy load voltage, idle ,etc). also whats the highest vcore i can go just for quick tests. same with sa and io , i just want to make sure what i am working with. Also how much voltage is deadly for short benches for vcore/sa/io. i heard people say that before u exceed the safe voltage limit u will be out of thermal headroom on ambient cooling is that true?


----------



## Nizzen

pipeclock said:


> Easy.


Nice and low temperature 

Looks nice


----------



## IronAge

Easy is funny, very likely he got a very good IMC on that chip too.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> ?


 Some TPM related options are in 1007, but I didn't check if they were in previous BIOSes.


----------



## Clausewitz

Hey guys, how is the Z590-E? Will it handle an 11900k well?


----------



## satinghostrider

Clausewitz said:


> Hey guys, how is the Z590-E? Will it handle an 11900k well?


Most boards will handle a 11900k reasonably well. What sets it apart is memory overclocking and I believe Z590-E is not bad. But don't pin your hopes too high if you wanna go all out on memory overclocking. 11900k's performance is pretty much solid if you run good memory.


----------



## freddy85

When running Cinebench r23 my center cores 2,3 and 5 is getting alot hotter than the rest, is this a commen thing or is it something wrong with my 11700k cpu? 

Aslo temp on core 3 dont show up wich i find odd.

Im running a Bykski CPU-XPR-MK-I-V4 CPU block with 360mm radiator and d5 pump.


----------



## AuxXxilium

11700KF SP68 and it performs much better than my 11900K SP82. With the i9 it wasn't possible to hold 5.4/5.2 under 75C. I think the 11700KF is a good choise. What do you think?


----------



## cstkl1

freddy85 said:


> When running Cinebench r23 my center cores 2,3 and 5 is getting alot hotter than the rest, is this a commen thing or is it something wrong with my 11700k cpu?
> 
> Aslo temp on core 3 dont show up wich i find odd.
> 
> Im running a Bykski CPU-XPR-MK-I-V4 CPU block with 360mm radiator and d5 pump.
> View attachment 2517755


dude those china ones are fine for rads, fittings and even gpu blocks to some extent

BUT never for cpu block. cpus have very small die area.


----------



## Jwick

the core 6 is always cooler than the other cores i have seen that with my chip as well.


----------



## fernlander

spin5000 said:


> This thread is called *Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion*
> Yet it's almost 200 pages of NOTHING REGARDING "Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion" and instead almost exclusively about RAM overclocking.
> 
> Talk about completely hijacking and destroying a thread.
> 
> Literally learned almost nothing about 11700K / 11900K overclocking, bins, etc. here - instead it's almost 200 pages about RAM timings, RAM frequencies, and RAM manufacturers. Discuss that in a RAM OVERCLOCKING thread, not a CPU OVERCLOCKING & BINS thread.


Yeah you’re right and such is the sad state of these CPUs. All I had to do to get top 3 Geekbench scores for my CPU was to buy the right RAM.

I didn’t even have to tweak much. Just XMP and lower the clock enough to work on gear 1 mode.

Bins would be a nice discussion I guess.
But beyond that there isn’t much room for anything. The amount of heat these throw out means the discussion would have to go to delidding and/or liquid nitrogen.

I hear it’s the same over on the AMD side.
It’s wo competitive out there that you may as well call these chips “preoverclocked” or “factory overclocked”. The only juice left is with RAM and it’s settings. So I guess take a crash course on RAM tuning.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

freddy85 said:


> When running Cinebench r23 my center cores 2,3 and 5 is getting alot hotter than the rest, is this a commen thing or is it something wrong with my 11700k cpu?
> 
> Aslo temp on core 3 dont show up wich i find odd.
> 
> Im running a Bykski CPU-XPR-MK-I-V4 CPU block with 360mm radiator and d5 pump.
> View attachment 2517755


 You may want to check your thermal paste distribution. Some cores are at the center while others aren't.


----------



## Falkentyne

freddy85 said:


> When running Cinebench r23 my center cores 2,3 and 5 is getting alot hotter than the rest, is this a commen thing or is it something wrong with my 11700k cpu?
> 
> Aslo temp on core 3 dont show up wich i find odd.
> 
> Im running a Bykski CPU-XPR-MK-I-V4 CPU block with 360mm radiator and d5 pump.
> View attachment 2517755


This is normal.
You aren't going to get those cores cooler without going direct die.
Even if you go direct die you're still going to have those exact same cores hotter than the others--just by a much lower amount.
Core #1 has been the coolest core on Intel chips for several generations now (with the core 0-9 method), even on 8700k it was like this.
Where's your core #3? Might want to reset your hwinfo layout to default or unhide it.


----------



## freddy85

Falkentyne said:


> This is normal.
> You aren't going to get those cores cooler without going direct die.
> Even if you go direct die you're still going to have those exact same cores hotter than the others--just by a much lower amount.
> Core #1 has been the coolest core on Intel chips for several generations now (with the core 0-9 method), even on 8700k it was like this.
> Where's your core #3? Might want to reset your hwinfo layout to default or unhide it.


Great, so glad its working correctly. Thank you


----------



## cstkl1

some brands dont need overengineering

they have @shamino1978


----------



## bigcid10

this made sound a bit nubish but here goes
I have a rog strix z590-e gaming and I want to run a static clock
if I set the cores to sync all cores and set to say 50,the board still doesn't respect
the setting and still clocks from 53-48
is this normal or am I doing something wrong ?
I want to run a 5.1 all core clock if I didn't explain that correctly.
Thank you

rog strix z590-e gaming 0902
11900K
corsair h150i pro
3600 b-dies(gskill) @4533 16-17-17-28


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> some brands dont need overengineering
> 
> they have @shamino1978


i don't need 20+ phases, but 2 layers more + an array of tantalum condis would not harm the Apex/Extreme at all.

yes, Asus Bios Support is awesome, so probably end up keeping the M13A.


----------



## NorySS

safedisk said:


> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1007 UPDATE*
> 
> 
> 1. Some bug fixes
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1007
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1007


Does this address any of the USB issues people are experiencing?


----------



## CallMeODZ

NorySS said:


> Does this address any of the USB issues people are experiencing?


what usb issues?




IronAge said:


> i don't not need 20+ phases, but 2 layers more + an array of tantalum condis would not harm the Apex/Extreme at all.
> 
> yes, Asus Bios Support is awesome, so probably end up keeping the M13A.


MSI has 8 layer pcb. the only benefit of this is it would hurt more if you threw a msi motherboard at someone over anyone else 6 layer


----------



## IronAge

CallMeODZ said:


> MSI has 8 layer pcb. the only benefit of this is it would hurt more if you threw a msi motherboard at someone over anyone else 6 layer


there is a reason that vendors use more layers, it provides better signal quality and less noise.

imagine the EVGA Z590 Dark with the Bios Tweaking of Shamino. 

so i kinda wish Shamino would join back EVGA, that is where he actually started engineering motherboards AFAIK.


----------



## NorySS

CallMeODZ said:


> what usb issues?







__





We'll be back.






rog.asus.com





TLDR my first M13E had an issue with the usb controller. Now my replacement board acts up with more than 4 USB devices are connected.


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> i don't not need 20+ phases, but 2 layers more + an array of tantalum condis would not harm the Apex/Extreme at all.
> 
> yes, Asus Bios Support is awesome, so probably end up keeping the M13A.


We need better cpu's with 500w+ powerdraw to see more cpu power 😎👊


----------



## CallMeODZ

IronAge said:


> there is a reason that vendors use more layers, it provides better signal quality and less noise.
> 
> imagine the EVGA Z590 Dark with the Bios Tweaking of Shamino.
> 
> so i kinda wish Shamino would join back EVGA, that is where he actually started engineering motherboards AFAIK.


noob question, how do you measure noise and quality?
second noob question, has any testing been done for higher layer pcb in mobo and ram vs lower?



NorySS said:


> TLDR my first M13E had an issue with the usb controller. Now my replacement board acts up with more than 4 USB devices are connected.



tyvm. does not seem like this issue is widespread? 
hope you get it sorted out soon!


----------



## cstkl1

NorySS said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We'll be back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rog.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TLDR my first M13E had an issue with the usb controller. Now my replacement board acts up with more than 4 USB devices are connected.


had that before on m13e.. wasnt the board. happens only during boot

rebuild your boot partition.
that solves it.

bad ram oc corrupts it on normal efi windows..
doesnt happen to ghost spectre.

guide using bcdboot








How to Repair EFI/GPT Bootloader on Windows 10 or 11? | Windows OS Hub


In this article, we will learn how to repair the Windows bootloader on a modern computer that uses UEFI instead of a classic BIOS and GPT disk partition table (instead…



woshub.com


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> i don't need 20+ phases, but 2 layers more + an array of tantalum condis would not harm the Apex/Extreme at all.
> 
> yes, Asus Bios Support is awesome, so probably end up keeping the M13A.


of course wont hurt da board.. it will hurt da wallet.

apex was speced to work within a price range.


----------



## Jwick

but why does the apex board cost that much with lower spec than the competition.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> but why does the apex board cost that much with lower spec than the competition.


I don’t think you understand that layer count doesn’t mean anything for a boards quality. The oc formula I know people have tested on cometlake can’t boot dual rank bdie over 4266 atm. High layer count right?


----------



## IronAge

CallMeODZ said:


> noob question, how do you measure noise and quality?
> second noob question, has any testing been done for higher layer pcb in mobo and ram vs lower?


Jitter/Noise are simulated first by R&D, then they use wide bandwidth oscilloscopes to measure signal quality on sample PCBs. it is common knowledge that seperated traces and more layers improve signal quality.


----------



## IronAge

YaqY said:


> I don’t think you understand that layer count doesn’t mean anything for a boards quality.


by stating something like that you are just showing off that you are clueless about eletronics engineering.



> The oc formula I know people have tested on cometlake can’t boot dual rank bdie over 4266 atm. High layer count right?


That ist verly likely Bios related, this board is still undergoing bios optimization, and Nick takes care of RKL first.

an Asus M12E with 8-layer PCB is the only 4 Dimm Slot Board that i have seen that can do more than 3866 in Gear1 with SR B-Dies at least.

So giving the Apex a lower layer count just improves profitability for Asus, they decided that giving only 2 Dimm Slots + short traces to socket and some Shamino Bios Magic should do for a 580$ motherboard.

When Z790 comes up with maybe all Slots PCIe 5.0 8 Layer PCB will most likely be a requirement anyways.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> but why does the apex board cost that much with lower spec than the competition.


But why does apex boards perform the best on air/water for most people 

"Theory" spec doesn't make something 

Like Gigabutt MB's; "Best VRM" bla bla bla... Perform like #$%#* 😅

There was one really good Gigabyte MB ever produced; X58 OC-A.


----------



## YaqY

IronAge said:


> by stating something like that you are just showing off that you are clueless about eletronics engineering.
> 
> 
> 
> That ist verly likely Bios related, this board is still undergoing bios optimization, and Nick takes care of RKL first.
> 
> an Asus M12E with 8-layer PCB is the only 4 Dimm Slot Board that i have seen that can do more than 3866 in Gear1 with SR B-Dies at least.
> 
> So giving the Apex a lower layer count just improves profitability for Asus, they decided that giving only 2 Dimm Slots + short traces to socket and some Shamino Bios Magic should do for a 580$ motherboard.
> 
> When Z790 comes up with maybe all Slots PCIe 5.0 8 Layer PCB will most likely be a requirement anyways.


If you want high layer counts for cheap buy an itx board . I am not disputing that a higher layer count is better in theory however obviously Asus has found it not necessary to use more than 6 layers. Top end two dimmer atx/eatx boards come down to bios quality, Asus has a strong following and gained lots of trust so they don’t need to market higher layout counts for market. If anything you are clueless about marketing and haven’t touched a z490 asrock boards (they sucked).


----------



## Jwick

if a company made a high layer count pcb with the best components on the market ( no compromises ) and a well optimized bios with it , it will outperform asus apex any day of the week. the only advantage apex has is that the bios is a bit ahead than the competition. but that doesn't justify the price. yes 12 layers wont do anything if the bios isnt optimized, but if it has an optimized bios, it will outperform a 6 layer board with an optimized bios.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> if a company made a high layer count pcb with the best components on the market ( no compromises ) and a well optimized bios with it , it will outperform asus apex any day of the week. the only advantage apex has is that the bios is a bit ahead than the competition. but that doesn't justify the price. yes 12 layers wont do anything if the bios isnt optimized, but if it has an optimized bios, it will outperform a 6 layer board with an optimized bios.


Then you can believe that 🎅
Tell that to shamino1978 and safedisk 

"There is no _if_ in the world. Either there* is* or it *isn't*"


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> if a company made a high layer count pcb with the best components on the market ( no compromises ) and a well optimized bios with it , it will outperform asus apex any day of the week. the only advantage apex has is that the bios is a bit ahead than the competition. but that doesn't justify the price. yes 12 layers wont do anything if the bios isnt optimized, but if it has an optimized bios, it will outperform a 6 layer board with an optimized bios.


All I see is if, asrock did make a high layer count board but they can’t make good bios. Apex bios is far superior to asrock.


----------



## Jwick

there is still the dark.


----------



## CallMeODZ

IronAge said:


> Jitter/Noise are simulated first by R&D, then they use wide bandwidth oscilloscopes to measure signal quality on sample PCBs. it is common knowledge that separated traces and more layers improve signal quality.


ah so this isnt something the end-user can measure? thats a shame
buildzoid mentions on one video (i can try dig it up if you wish) that msi used a funky pattern to prevent noise & block signal loss on one mobo, on the traces it looks like little L shape patterns 
afik the board does nothing special for ram oc


----------



## Clausewitz

I have a new 11900k and sometimes HWINFO64 is showing 0c on some cores. Is this unusual or known?


----------



## D-EJ915

Clausewitz said:


> I have a new 11900k and sometimes HWINFO64 is showing 0c on some cores. Is this unusual or known?


My first 9900x had a broken temp sensor on it, wouldn't show under 50c. That was the only one I've had that happen on though. I would RMA it.


----------



## Clausewitz

D-EJ915 said:


> My first 9900x had a broken temp sensor on it, wouldn't show under 50c. That was the only one I've had that happen on though. I would RMA it.


It's apparently a common bug on this CPU: Motherboard Nuvoton header Temp2 reading erratic v7.02-4430

Also, I looked through this thread and there was a screenshot or two of someone with a 0c minimum reading on their 11900k.


----------



## NorySS

cstkl1 said:


> had that before on m13e.. wasnt the board. happens only during boot
> 
> rebuild your boot partition.
> that solves it.
> 
> bad ram oc corrupts it on normal efi windows..
> doesnt happen to ghost spectre.
> 
> guide using bcdboot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Repair EFI/GPT Bootloader on Windows 10 or 11? | Windows OS Hub
> 
> 
> In this article, we will learn how to repair the Windows bootloader on a modern computer that uses UEFI instead of a classic BIOS and GPT disk partition table (instead…
> 
> 
> 
> woshub.com


Ironic, I am using ghost spectre.
My issue only happens in windows. never in the bios. I actually did back down on the memory OC, due to instabilityafter 2 hours of gaming.
None the less, the USB issue happens at ANY time. And when everything is stock/default.


----------



## cstkl1

NorySS said:


> Ironic, I am using ghost spectre.
> My issue only happens in windows. never in the bios. I actually did back down on the memory OC, due to instabilityafter 2 hours of gaming.
> None the less, the USB issue happens at ANY time. And when everything is stock/default.


odd.. didnt happen to me on ghost spectre...

but i know the fix was when i rebuild the boot. no idea why..


----------



## Clausewitz

Guys I think I have the lowest SP rating in history: 50. On my 11900k.


I've seen some people say V/F curve is more important for chip quality. What am I looking for in that?


----------



## Jwick

1.4v for 5.3 is like god chip. 1.55v 5.3 is bad/really bad, 1.6v for 5.3 is worst ( i think so )


----------



## IronAge

Intel Core i9-12900K QS allegedly outperforms Ryzen 9 5950X in Cinebench R20 test - VideoCardz.com


Intel Core i9-12900K Qualification Sample benchmark results According to OneRaichu, a qualification sample of Intel Core i9-12900K processor is already faster than AMD Ryzen 9 5950X in both single and multi-core benchmarks in the popular Cinebench R20 software. However, one should be aware that...




videocardz.com


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hi all,
I am running a 11900K + Asus APEX XIII I am trying to find out what my preferred cores are,in bios, for example I have a * marked for cores 3 and 4 in the specific core menu in bios.
Is this telling me cores 3 and 4 are preferred, or is the preferred cores specified in another section of bios.

Thank you in advanced


----------



## morph.

Yamcha2209 said:


> Hi all,
> I am running a 11900K + Asus APEX XIII I am trying to find out what my preferred cores are,in bios, for example I have a * marked for cores 3 and 4 in the specific core menu in bios.
> Is this telling me cores 3 and 4 are preferred, or is the preferred cores specified in another section of bios.
> 
> Thank you in advanced


Yes the * are the preferred cores.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Thanks mate


----------



## sugi0lover

I got the new 4000 CL14 G.SKILL Royal Elite kit and overclocked just a little bit to see the potential.
It's air cooled and I haven't even removed the vinyl from ram cover, so the average of ram temp for TM5 is a little over 40C.
Anyway here I go.

CPU : 11900K
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1007)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Elite Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C14D-16GTEG)
Memory OC : 4800Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (Gear 2)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.550v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.35v / Mem OC IO 1.35v


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> Intel Core i9-12900K QS allegedly outperforms Ryzen 9 5950X in Cinebench R20 test - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Qualification Sample benchmark results According to OneRaichu, a qualification sample of Intel Core i9-12900K processor is already faster than AMD Ryzen 9 5950X in both single and multi-core benchmarks in the popular Cinebench R20 software. However, one should be aware that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


Time to sell your 11700K 🤣


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> Time to sell your 11700K 🤣


Isn't that what we are doing all the time every "season" ? Selling old tech, and buying new tech


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> Time to sell your 11700K 🤣


actually i have got three 11700K, one 11900K and am about to buy a 11900KF which does 5.3 @ 1.32V CB

you looking for a reasonably priced 11900K ?


----------



## reddify

XIII HERO with BIOS 1007, stock CPU:


----------



## bluebaron

bscool said:


> @bluebaron Auto will set some timings incorrectly/loose You can use Asrock Timing Config ver 4.0.9 to post timings if you want help setting them ASRock Z590 OC Formula





YaqY said:


> This is probably mode 2 training if loose terts. Try set twrwr_dg and trdrd_dg make sure those are both at 4, other than that it is up to you to tighten other tertiaries which is likely the issue here.


Hey everyone. Sorry for my super late response to these messages; forgot to log back in here and reply. I'm no longer using my single rank Bdie kit since I like the performance of my dual rank kit better, but I wanted to say that you guys were totally right with regard to your suspicions about tertiary timings. I followed your advice and read many of the posts in this thread, the 10900K overclocking thread, and the Intel memory overclocking thread, and they were very helpful in getting things configured correctly. I also found @Falkentyne 's Maximus 12 and 13 overclocking guides invaluable in figuring out my motherboard's settings and getting my CPU overclock dialed in. So it seems I came to the right place with my questions. Thanks to all


----------



## freddy85

cstkl1 said:


> dude those china ones are fine for rads, fittings and even gpu blocks to some extent
> 
> BUT never for cpu block. cpus have very small die area.


Bougth a ekwb verlocity block and the temp got 10c colder, if i knew i it would be so big difference i wouldt have bought the bykski block.


----------



## YoungChris

Bench OS for Rocket Lake use.





Multicore OS.mrimg







drive.google.com




Go wild.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> I got the new 4000 CL14 G.SKILL Royal Elite kit and overclocked just a little bit to see the potential.
> It's air cooled and I haven't even removed the vinyl from ram cover, so the average of ram temp for TM5 is a little over 40C.
> Anyway here I go.
> 
> CPU : 11900K
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1007)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Elite Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C14D-16GTEG)
> Memory OC : 4800Mhz-17-17-17-28-265-1T (Gear 2)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.550v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.35v / Mem OC IO 1.35v
> 
> View attachment 2518174


I am considering this kit. Have you tried 5066 c17?


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> I am considering this kit. Have you tried 5066 c17?


5000-16-17-17-28-265-1T is possible, but I still got a couple of errors with 5066 c17.
Unfortunately, it seems like my 4000 CL15 kit is better than two 4000 CL14 kits I have bought, 
but my 4000 CL15 kit was the best among more than 30 4000 CL15 kits I and my freinds bought.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

M12A 2201 BIOS still sucks, is 2301 BIOS available now?


----------



## YoungChris

YoungChris said:


> Bench OS for Rocket Lake use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multicore OS.mrimg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go wild.


Turns out my 11900k IMC is a bit better than I thought.








Wonder if I can make it to 4k, though this farther than I ever thought I'd go.


----------



## YoungChris

I'm almost there...








Just need to get 4k running now.








I've made it into the OS, but it's not quite stable.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> 5000-16-17-17-28-265-1T is possible, but I still got a couple of errors with 5066 c17.
> Unfortunately, it seems like my 4000 CL15 kit is better than two 4000 CL14 kits I have bought,
> but my 4000 CL15 kit was the best among more than 30 4000 CL15 kits I and my freinds bought.


The 4000 CL14 kit was recently released, so it makes sense that some older 4000 C15 kits outperform it. Now the 4000 C14 kit is GSkill's top bin.

It will be interesting to see how this kit performs against my peasant Patriot 4400 C19 kits.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> The 4000 CL14 kit was recently released, so it makes sense that some older 4000 C15 kits outperform it. Now the 4000 C14 kit is GSkill's top bin.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this kit performs against my peasant Patriot 4400 C19 kits.


. no. the bins are very diff.

theres no ram like ONE that rules it all
some better at specific latency
some better at high speed
some requires less cpu sa/io

dual ranks are easier on gear 1 compared to sr
and theres more options to overcome any wall
sr kits are pretty much yes or no.


----------



## YoungChris

0451 said:


> The 4000 CL14 kit was recently released, so it makes sense that some older 4000 C15 kits outperform it. Now the 4000 C14 kit is GSkill's top bin.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this kit performs against my peasant Patriot 4400 C19 kits.


Y'all need to try binning for Competitive OC/HWBot type settings 
I'm happy to provide subtimings/voltages for binning


----------



## YoungChris

EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK with an Intel Core i9-11900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com












Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5000 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[drtd9x] Validated Dump by Sparky's Adventure (2021-07-23 19:52:56) - MB: EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr












The dream has been done.
4000mhz 12-11-11 14 170 1t with 2x16GB of B-Die, all in Gear 1, with all cores enabled and no maxmem or crazy cooling.
1.225vcore (-75% droop setting), 1.65io aux, 1.725 sa, 1.96vdimm.


----------



## Astral85

Does anyone with 11900K/Z590 know if the CPU "attached" Nvme drive helps with asset streaming latency/hitching in games? Is anyone using the CPU attached M.2 slot for gaming?


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> Does anyone with 11900K/Z590 know if the CPU "attached" Nvme drive helps with asset streaming latency/hitching in games? Is anyone using the CPU attached M.2 slot for gaming?


??

thats a pagefile issue 
and i think everybody on nvme for gaming/daily bro.


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> ??
> 
> thats a pagefile issue
> and i think everybody on nvme for gaming/daily bro.


Yes but 11900K is supposed to have one "direct attached" NVMe slot to the CPU so it can communicate with the CPU without going through the chipset first... Wondering if this helps with disk read latency in gaming. Also doesn't 11900K have increased DMI bandwidth?


----------



## Jwick

i believe it does.But if u are looking for low latency drives u need to get the intel optane drive and connect it directly to the cpu. that will the lowest latency drive. but only some motherboard can do that as the optane nvme is 22110 length. i believe tachyon,Dark,Unify . these are the 2 dimm board which can do that.


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> Yes but 11900K is supposed to have one "direct attached" NVMe slot to the CPU so it can communicate with the CPU without going through the chipset first... Wondering if this helps with disk read latency in gaming. Also doesn't 11900K have increased DMI bandwidth?


yup. but i think its marginal when you have enough vram/ram -24/32gb

the dmi is 8x pcie gen 3. thats more for the two nvme gen 3 and thunderbolt afaik. 

i havent seen any conclusive evidence of gen 4 beating gen 3.

for me the best game atm to see all ure system capabilities + custom os is warzone/coldwar.


----------



## YoungChris

Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5000 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[3p4451] Validated Dump by Sparky's Adventure (2021-07-25 20:44:25) - MB: EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr








__





EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK with an Intel Core i9-11900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com












Challenge #2 is down.
4800mhz 15-13-13 210 1t with 2x16GB of B-Die, in Gear 2, with all cores enabled and no maxmem or crazy cooling.
1.225vcore (-75% droop setting), 1.65 io aux/sa, 1.96vdimm. Memory and IMC volts are not minimized.


----------



## cstkl1

Testing 1007 and later win 11

11900k - SP88/89 - 51|46 - LLC2 - 1.48, 
M13A - Bios 1007
Gskill F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB - 4533 [email protected]
SA/MCIO - 1.05/1.2



so far the bios seems ok except it has a weird boot sequence added on and windows loads all the usb devices like 1sec slower


----------



## IronAge

Very tamed voltages, more to come ?


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Very tamed voltages, more to come ?


its too hot here. 

also noticed switching from 3866 to high gear 2 clock now better with the extra boot seq

testing win 11 later.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> gear 2 clock now better with the extra boot seq


You mean that it's the extra boot seq that made 4533 MHz possible?


----------



## YoungChris

found another 2x16 kit that can do 4800 15-13 1t
tRFC 200, better tRFC than any other set I've tested, though also seems quite tough to handle








maybe has potential to be a strong daily set, and since it uses the Ripjaws spreaders, it should be easy to replace with proper spreaders
honestly would rather put it on the marketplace though


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> You mean that it's the extra boot seq that made 4533 MHz possible?


no. 4533 exactly the same

not sure happen to u. but if u keep switching between gear 1 and 2 high clock. sometimes things get weird in old biod

1007.. hmm timings on third for me changed yet again. heck even old 3733c14 profile cant work.

gear 2 so far no diff.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> found another 2x16 kit that can do 4800 15-13 1t
> tRFC 200, better tRFC than any other set I've tested
> View attachment 2518713
> 
> maybe has potential to be a strong daily set
> honestly would rather put it on the marketplace


impressive. so dark does have the potential for 4800c17 daily stable for dr bdie..


----------



## Groove2013

@cstkl1 could you please check in any game of your choice 3866 14 vs 4533 17 to see what gives better FPS? Bandwidth or latency.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> @cstkl1 could you please check in any game of your choice 3866 14 vs 4533 17 to see what gives better FPS? Bandwidth or latency.


its latency i believe. dont quote me on that.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @cstkl1 could you please check in any game of your choice 3866 14 vs 4533 17 to see what gives better FPS? Bandwidth or latency.


its game dependent. basically high vram/ram cache 4533 has better min fps. 

my issue with 3866c14 is the insane jump needed for sa/io vs 3733.

5kc17 beats it though outright in all scenarios. 
so if it was possible to do 4800c17 dual rank.. 
that be sweet.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> impressive. so dark does have the potential for 4800c17 daily stable for dr bdie..


so it's possible Luumi simply has a bad RAM kit and that's the reason for only CL19 @ 4800 MHz on Z590 Dark.

Or his Z590 Dark is not retail.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

YoungChris said:


> found another 2x16 kit that can do 4800 15-13 1t
> tRFC 200, better tRFC than any other set I've tested
> View attachment 2518713
> 
> maybe has potential to be a strong daily set
> honestly would rather put it on the marketplace


I would be interested. I have an Asrock OC Formula, so it would be interesting to compare noted with an EVGA Dark using the same kit.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> its game dependent. basically high vram/ram cache 4533 has better min fps.
> 
> my issue with 3866c14 is the insane jump needed for sa/io vs 3733.
> 
> 5kc17 beats it though outright in all scenarios.
> so if it was possible to do 4800c17 dual rank..
> that be sweet.


okay so what kind of game will favor gear 1?


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> okay so what kind of game will favor gear 1?


What game favor 11900k over 10900k both "max" overclocked on core and memory


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hey guys, 

Can i get some advice on my 11900K.
I run stable 5.2ghz all core at 1.390v with a LLC 8. I want to lower the LLC and increase voltage any suggestions on a good starting points


----------



## D-EJ915

Groove2013 said:


> so it's possible Luumi simply has a bad RAM kit and that's the reason for only CL19 @ 4800 MHz on Z590 Dark.
> 
> Or his Z590 Dark is not retail.


If you're talking about "daily" profile, I mean it's "daily" generic profile so not the maximum you can get.


----------



## sugi0lover

D-EJ915 said:


> If you're talking about "daily" profile, I mean it's "daily" generic profile so not the maximum you can get.





Nizzen said:


> What game favor 11900k over 10900k both "max" overclocked on core and memory


My friend tested 3866 CL13 vs 5066 CL16 on FHD.
Here is the result from his post on Korean community.

[3866 CL13 / 5066 CL16]
Average fps

Horizon Zero Dawn 179 / 175
Assasin's Creed Vahalla 153 / 150
Shadow of the TombRaider 208 / 202
Final Fantasy XV Benchmark 18100 / 17600 (not fps, score)


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> okay so what kind of game will favor gear 1?


games that uses compressed texture
sotr for example


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend tested 3866 CL13 vs 5066 CL16 on FHD.
> Here is the result from his post on Korean community.
> 
> [3866 CL13 / 5066 CL16]
> Average fps
> 
> Horizon Zero Dawn 179 / 175
> Assasin's Creed Vahalla 153 / 150
> Shadow of the TombRaider 208 / 202
> Final Fantasy XV Benchmark 18100 / 17600 (not fps, score)


notice weird behavior in cod warzone
@1440p fps > 1080p


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen

cpu intensive..






stock 11900k.. 4800C17, rtx 3080 strix @56% power limit.. 1440p max.
v2 min fps 100 @ 1440p max

5.3ghz 10900k 4400c16 2x16gb
v2 min fps 90 @ 1440p max..

many unexplained crashes through out the years with other intel cpus.. always thought was mods
now.. zero crash
i dont dare to host with 10900k




for CW .. anyway u can see this run.. its multi map style..

whatever fps here.. 10900k @5.3 will get 10% less on min ..

10900k stock cache 46, [email protected] 2x16gb, m12e, 3090 strix atm very stable. this rig gaming @4k with pg32uqx so pointless to oc cpu. cache+ram helped on fps min.








hmm changed fan ryujin 2 to push intake.. super positive airflow.. cpu temps dropped 9c, gpu 12c. 


11900k rig will be out of commision for next 1-2 months. redoing the rig to a permanent aesthetically pleasing looking looking rig.
gonna go o11 xl with brass tubes.


----------



## cstkl1

@sugi0lover

11900k stock LLC2
Bios 1007
Strix 3080

FFXV High Quality @1440p..


2x16gb 3733C14









vs

2x16gb 4533c17









This game is like sotf.. vram usage only 5gb+ and very little caching. so its a lot of compressed texture streaming which gear 1 is better at.

conclusion - same @1440p

for ure friend 1080p not suprised gear 1.
but 11900k seriously has issues with @1080p. warzone fps is lower than 1440p

3866 and 4600 still working on it for bios 1007.
gear 1 timings changed a bit and 4600 getting it to boot atm abit inconsistent.


----------



## Wasakiqwe

is it worth upgrading from 10850k to 11900 k for stability ? Using z590 + 3080 .


----------



## cstkl1

Wasakiqwe said:


> is it worth upgrading from 10850k to 11900 k for stability ? Using z590 + 3080 .


err all the bins i see now are sp4x and sp5x

hard to recommend it even if its more stable


----------



## Wasakiqwe

you mean spx4/5 are not good ! what's good bins ?


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> err all the bins i see now are sp4x and sp5x
> 
> hard to recommend it even if its more stable


really, why what happened did intel become more lenient for the 11900k binning process? then u could buy good bins from SL then. so how bad is 11700k?


----------



## Jwick

Wasakiqwe said:


> you mean spx4/5 are not good ! what's good bins ?


he meant sp 4x and sp 5x. good bins are like sp 70+ , sometimes sp rating is a bit inaccurate dont go by that alone. i have seen a sp 108 on hwbot which got sold instant lol.


----------



## satinghostrider

I just put together a system for a customer based on the 11900KF.
Just an idea of the SP rating from Intel's latest batch. Bad not even average if you ask me.
After flashing 0902 on this Strix Gaming A Wifi, the SP rating was 50. So yeah..sucks...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

SP... LOL

I bought 3 11900K in the past week. One does 5.2 all core, one does 5.25, and one does 5.1. Not amazing but come on. If you don't buy Asus boards you might actually be forced to overclock and see what these chips can do for yourself. Kids these days...


----------



## Jwick

lol, but 1.7 v for 53 is awful, if thats correct whats the vf curve?


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> SP... LOL
> 
> I bought 3 11900K in the past week. One does 5.2 all core, one does 5.25, and one does 5.1. Not amazing but come on. If you don't buy Asus boards you might actually be forced to overclock and see what these chips can do for yourself. Kids these days...


true


----------



## satinghostrider

Jwick said:


> lol, but 1.7 v for 53 is awful, if thats correct whats the vf curve?


I didn't bother to check probably based on old bios so that reading might be wrong. But flashing to latest, it got to SP50. But I didn't check that v/f curve out as it isn't my system lol.


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> yup. but i think its marginal when you have enough vram/ram -24/32gb
> 
> the dmi is 8x pcie gen 3. thats more for the two nvme gen 3 and thunderbolt afaik.
> 
> i havent seen any conclusive evidence of gen 4 beating gen 3.
> 
> for me the best game atm to see all ure system capabilities + custom os is warzone/coldwar.


I meant does an NVMe drive in DMI Gen 3 show any any benefit to gaming? Like disk latency causing frame drops. When I said I thought my NVMe was causing stutters when disk read occurred while gaming you said this was page file related. What is it with the page file?


----------



## Jwick

well, on z490 the chipset could support x4, but z590 is x8, the difference is the bandwidth both are gen 3 anyways. but in theory running the nvme directly to the cpu might help with lows in some games, its not tested properly so not sure. intel optane drives are 10 times slower than dram. Which is really fast , nvme ssd are really far behind in terms of latency compared to optane, and optane drives provide consistent performance. but in games is it beneficial, not sure, in theory it should.


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> its game dependent. basically high vram/ram cache 4533 has better min fps.
> 
> my issue with 3866c14 is the insane jump needed for sa/io vs 3733.
> 
> 5kc17 beats it though outright in all scenarios.
> so if it was possible to do 4800c17 dual rank..
> that be sweet.


11900k with 4800c17/18 Will be faster than 3866cl14 and "maxed" 10900k? 🤔


----------



## Arni90

Jwick said:


> well, on z490 the chipset could support x4, but z590 is x8, the difference is the bandwidth both are gen 3 anyways. but in theory running the nvme directly to the cpu might help with lows in some games, its not tested properly so not sure. intel optane drives are 10 times slower than dram. Which is really fast , nvme ssd are really far behind in terms of latency compared to optane, and optane drives provide consistent performance. but in games is it beneficial, not sure, in theory it should.


If a real-time game made today gets reduced stuttering from an optane drive, that's simply poor programming. It will be probably be close to 2030 at the very least before every gaming system has Optane-like access latency.


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> 11900k with 4800c17/18 Will be faster than 3866cl14 and "maxed" 10900k? 🤔


no. but if u have a 2-4 hour session of gaming..
my bet is on the 11900k


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> I meant does an NVMe drive in DMI Gen 3 show any any benefit to gaming? Like disk latency causing frame drops. When I said I thought my NVMe was causing stutters when disk read occurred while gaming you said this was page file related. What is it with the page file?


no.
until today theres no evidence even nvme trumping ssd in gaming in a manner where one can say nvme the way to go

its because nvme are cheaper or equal to ssd.. ppl are adopting to it. 

and serious work requiring nvmes are normally optanes on x299, x399, trx etc platform..


----------



## Jwick

i have an optane ssd 905p 380GB, M.2 110mm and a sabrent gen 4 1tb , i could do testing, if u guys would like, just waiting for some other stuff to come. also i will be able to run the optane drive directly to the cpu.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i have an optane ssd 905p 380GB, M.2 110mm and a sabrent gen 4 1tb , i could do testing, if u guys would like, just waiting for some other stuff to come. also i will be able to run the optane drive directly to the cpu.


@Nizzen did a benchmark afaik


----------



## cstkl1

direct storage. thats when we can start testing nvme gaming benefits. not even sure its gen 4 exclusive or not.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen did a benchmark afaik


and in gaming it did nothing? but doesnt games access files which are loaded on the ssd? and even if fps doesnt improve it should improve ingame latency or something right?


----------



## sdmf74

I havent got around to fully overclocking my new 11900K or my ram on this new motherboard (M13H) but I was wondering is it still wise to run SA voltage slightly higher than CPU VCCCIO for
memory overclock or has this changed?
I ask cause this is how it was on Z270 (my last motherboard) and I noticed that when these voltages are on Auto on my new M13H the motherboard sets the CPU VCCIO voltage higher than the SA voltage.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> and in gaming it did nothing? but doesnt games access files which are loaded on the ssd? and even if fps doesnt improve it should improve ingame latency or something right?


errr its been years bro.. there's no evidence that nvme provides an advantage
only reason nvme adoption is high atm is because its dirt cheap..


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> no. but if u have a 2-4 hour session of gaming..
> my bet is on the 11900k


What do you mean with 2-4h of gaming?


----------



## satinghostrider

jeiselramos said:


> What do you mean with 2-4h of gaming?


Means you actually play a game for that duration with no stability issues and random crashes due to WHEA.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> and in gaming it did nothing? but doesnt games access files which are loaded on the ssd? and even if fps doesnt improve it should improve ingame latency or something right?


I have used Optane 900p/ 905p since day one for Os/games/programs.
Most games are cpubound when loading. That's why there are next to nothing difference on load time between "ssd's".

One thing is for certain; I will never downgrade to a ssd that is slower than Optane 900p 4k random read @ QD=1 for Os/programs. When you are used to Optane, everything installing, searching, browsing. Yes everything just feel more "snappy"

~320MB /s 4k random read @ QD=1 on my 11900k is nice. There is no "penalty" writing performance after cache is full, like many tlc/qlc ssd's. The performance is just a stright line


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> no. but if u have a 2-4 hour session of gaming..
> my bet is on the 11900k


Why? They will be equal or slightly in favour of the 10900 if you go in to the nitty gritty


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Why? They will be equal or slightly in favour of the 10900 if you go in to the nitty gritty


one is still in da game guaranteed. 
the other may not be


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> one is still in da game guaranteed.
> the other may not be


Why is that? Seems like you need to rma your comet lake 😉


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Why is that? Seems like you need to rma your comet lake 😉


or u are ignorant .... think i stick with that...🤣🤣🤣

btw more interesting.. is ure 1440p rtx 3090 with 16gb ram .. for warzone..


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> btw more interesting.. is ure 1440p rtx 3090 with 16gb ram .. for warzone..


Works flawlessly ofc while pushing well above 200fps at all times with perfect frametimes😉

In my warzone group there is one person with occasional ctd, but he's on an 5900x..


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Works flawlessly ofc while pushing well above 200fps at all times with perfect frametimes😉
> 
> In my warzone group there is one person with occasional ctd, but he's on an 5900x..


well i dable call of duty on and off.. and helped ppl who has issues with the game

but again 16gb ram with rtx 3090 @1440p..
hmm.. 

@satinghostrider .. can ah bro??
afaik its a stutterfest with 16gb @1440p with 3090..


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> well i dable call of duty on and off.. and helped ppl who has issues with the game
> 
> but again 16gb ram with rtx 3090 @1440p..
> hmm..
> 
> @satinghostrider .. can ah bro??
> afaik its a stutterfest with 16gb @1440p with 3090..


16GB is plenty for Warzone. I have constant 200FPS+ and rock stable frametime on 2x8.


----------



## YoungChris

Groove2013 said:


> so it's possible Luumi simply has a bad RAM kit and that's the reason for only CL19 @ 4800 MHz on Z590 Dark.
> 
> Or his Z590 Dark is not retail.


Not a board issue
Luumi just isn't that good at daily OC lol


----------



## cstkl1

Antsu said:


> 16GB is plenty for Warzone. I have constant 200FPS+ and rock stable frametime on 2x8.


hahahahahaha. nice joke right there.


----------



## CallMeODZ

just got a hero. my gigabyte was non-stop headaches. massive sound glitches make my s3000 pro fill the whole house with bass/static fkn nightmare
anyone wondering the gigabyte gen 4 ssds work a treat in top slot have to skin the preinstalled nano carbon shell (marketing, bs) for it to fit through. hero heatsink is plenty


----------



## cstkl1

CallMeODZ said:


> just got a hero. my gigabyte was non-stop headaches. massive sound glitches make my s3000 pro fill the whole house with bass/static fkn nightmare
> anyone wondering the gigabyte gen 4 ssds work a treat in top slot have to skin the preinstalled nano carbon shell (marketing, bs) for it to fit through. hero heatsink is plenty


was it the master?

curious at its performance. z490 it was actually one the most understated boards.


----------



## CallMeODZ

hey mate, nah i have a z490 master with 10700k in it
i had the ax pro with 11900k


----------



## YoungChris

no cap
Z490 Aorus Master is one of the best boards for Comet Lake competitive OC. Just a hair behind Apex/Dark, roughly equal to Extreme, and above Unify ITX
Provided you run one of the latest (public!!!!!) XOC bioses, even 4800 1t single rank and high frequency dual rank can be done with B-Die
Funny enough, all the Aourus 4-dimm ATX/EATX boards clock memory about the same for Z490


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> no cap
> Z490 Aorus Master is one of the best boards for Comet Lake competitive OC. Just a hair behind Apex/Dark, roughly equal to Extreme, and above Unify ITX
> Provided you run one of the latest (public!!!!!) XOC bioses, even 4800 1t single rank and high frequency dual rank can be done with B-Die
> Funny enough, all the Aourus 4-dimm ATX/EATX boards clock memory about the same for Z490


yeah when @owikh84 tested it. literally plug and play.
yes performance just a smidge less than asus.
thas cause rtl was higher by 1 or 2.

but other than that. he was just autoing everything . 4800 on bdie sr easy, 4dimm 4266 easy.. bandwidth was about the same as asus. just latency higher 1ns due to rtl.

cpu oc about the same as asus

the auto was so good literally targeted for buildzoid.


----------



## jlakai

I'm getting A0 code that won't go away no matter what I do. Does anyone have an idea how to get rid of it? M13 Apex + 11900k + 1007 Bios.


----------



## cstkl1

jlakai said:


> I'm getting A0 code that won't go away no matter what I do. Does anyone have an idea how to get rid of it? M13 Apex + 11900k + 1007 Bios.


gear 1 or 2?


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> @sugi0lover
> 
> 11900k stock LLC2
> Bios 1007
> Strix 3080
> 
> FFXV High Quality @1440p..
> 
> 
> 2x16gb 3733C14
> View attachment 2518777
> 
> 
> vs
> 
> 2x16gb 4533c17
> View attachment 2518778
> 
> 
> This game is like sotf.. vram usage only 5gb+ and very little caching. so its a lot of compressed texture streaming which gear 1 is better at.
> 
> conclusion - same @1440p


0.4% difference on 100% GPU bound settings? I wouldn't draw any conclusions. Dropping my GPU clocks by 60Mhz results in a 2.5% drop while increasing CPU core/cache by +100MHz does nothing, I actually scored worse on both runs that I tested it. When you are that GPU limited it's really easy to get a little variance because of auto boost trash. Like staying on a different voltage for same clock speed will actually change your effective clock and thus performance.


----------



## 74lobster

satinghostrider said:


> I just put together a system for a customer based on the 11900KF.
> Just an idea of the SP rating from Intel's latest batch. Bad not even average if you ask me.
> After flashing 0902 on this Strix Gaming A Wifi, the SP rating was 50. So yeah..sucks...
> 
> Excuse me, taking a look at your picture I see *AVX V req for Heavy AVX at 5300 MHz*, how did you obtain this value ?
> 
> *What modifications in the bios I must do ?*
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 2518813


----------



## cstkl1

Antsu said:


> 0.4% difference on 100% GPU bound settings? I wouldn't draw any conclusions. Dropping my GPU clocks by 60Mhz results in a 2.5% drop while increasing CPU core/cache by +100MHz does nothing, I actually scored worse on both runs that I tested it. When you are that GPU limited it's really easy to get a little variance because of auto boost trash. Like staying on a different voltage for same clock speed will actually change your effective clock and thus performance.


9900k = auto boost trash btw.

not the same for 11900k. it actually works better. if ure talking about core boosting

octvb a beast with 10900k


----------



## D-EJ915

YoungChris said:


> no cap
> Z490 Aorus Master is one of the best boards for Comet Lake competitive OC. Just a hair behind Apex/Dark, roughly equal to Extreme, and above Unify ITX
> Provided you run one of the latest (public!!!!!) XOC bioses, even 4800 1t single rank and high frequency dual rank can be done with B-Die
> Funny enough, all the Aourus 4-dimm ATX/EATX boards clock memory about the same for Z490


Best part is since they are combo with RTX cards you can get them for like 200 dollars on ebay.


----------



## cstkl1

been testing all 090x bios abd 1007

i think they sux for gear 1. 
gear 2 not affected.


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> yeah when @owikh84 tested it. literally plug and play.
> yes performance just a smidge less than asus.
> thas cause rtl was higher by 1 or 2.
> 
> but other than that. he was just autoing everything . 4800 on bdie sr easy, 4dimm 4266 easy.. bandwidth was about the same as asus. just latency higher 1ns due to rtl.
> 
> cpu oc about the same as asus
> 
> the auto was so good literally targeted for buildzoid.


Not to mention, 4 dimm 4266 1t also possible with Z490 Aorus


----------



## YoungChris

unfortunately, might not have a well optimized RKL bios yet


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> unfortunately, might not have a well optimized RKL bios yet


yeah ..they beefed up z590 master. so been curious about this board.


----------



## Antsu

cstkl1 said:


> 9900k = auto boost trash btw.
> 
> not the same for 11900k. it actually works better. if ure talking about core boosting
> 
> octvb a beast with 10900k


I meant the Nvidia boost algorithm that is quite agressive these days. A temp difference of few celsius when setting the clocks can make it behave different, even if you have the exact same temperature under load, lol.


----------



## cstkl1

Antsu said:


> I meant the Nvidia boost algorithm that is quite agressive these days. A temp difference of few celsius when setting the clocks can make it behave different, even if you have the exact same temperature under load, lol.


oh. all on water bro. fixed 2085/2100 @1.05. 450-500w bios. it wont flux.


----------



## CallMeODZ

any idea what the PCIE-bus whea error is in relation 2 (in hwinfo64)

edit: may have cried wolf 2 early


----------



## Nizzen

YoungChris said:


> no cap
> Z490 Aorus Master is one of the best boards for Comet Lake competitive OC. Just a hair behind Apex/Dark, roughly equal to Extreme, and above Unify ITX
> Provided you run one of the latest (public!!!!!) XOC bioses, even 4800 1t single rank and high frequency dual rank can be done with B-Die
> Funny enough, all the Aourus 4-dimm ATX/EATX boards clock memory about the same for Z490


Show us some results, so we can compare to some of the z490 unify itx and z490 apex 

I haven't seen many good results with Aorus Master z490. Many people don't want Master due to many bad bioses. Ps: I haven't had gigabyte since x58 oc -a


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Show us some results, so we can compare to some of the z490 unify itx and z490 apex
> 
> I haven't seen many good results with Aorus Master z490. Many people don't want Master due to many bad bioses. Ps: I haven't had gigabyte since x58 oc -a


latency higher, rtl higher, bandwidth almost the same.. timings cant run straight like 17-17 same module on both boards

what differs is the ease bro.


----------



## cstkl1

bios 1007.. had a ephiny based on all da bios..

3866c14 needs only 1.35/1.35 sa/io
but.. trf 677 
and u loose fast boot.


----------



## Heidi

Folks...short and simple question....
I am in doubt between 11700k and 11900k...
Mobo is Z590 PG Velicita...Ram Patriot 4400...
What will I miss if shoot out for 11700k as it is significantly cheaper than 11900k....
Thanks.


----------



## cstkl1

Heidi said:


> Folks...short and simple question....
> I am in doubt between 11700k and 11900k...
> Mobo is Z590 PG Velicita...Ram Patriot 4400...
> What will I miss if shoot out for 11700k as it is significantly cheaper than 11900k....
> Thanks.


at the current sp. nothing


----------



## cstkl1

@Heidi 
maybe mem oc.


----------



## bigcid10

asus rog strix z590-E gaming ,11900k sp82 32GB gskill [email protected] bdies ,bios 1007
I would like to know how to setup a static all core cpu clock on this board ?
can someone help me with it ?
Thank you


----------



## cstkl1

bigcid10 said:


> asus rog strix z590-E gaming ,11900k sp82 32GB gskill [email protected] bdies ,bios 1007
> I would like to know how to setup a static all core cpu clock on this board ?
> can someone help me with it ?
> Thank you


sync all core
set the core speed u want like 5.1.. so 51
vcore set manual.
set the vcore u think can boot

test

baller btw ure 4533 dual rank stable on stix-e


----------



## Clausewitz

Just a heads up: 1007 was pulled from the Z590-E Support site: ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI

Maximus APEX XIII Now only has 0903 as the latest - no 1007 or equivalent: ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX｜Z590 Motherboard


----------



## YoungChris

nearly 200ms improvement to my old 5g 32m score
















Anyone else want to join in the fun?





Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


HWBOT is a site dedicated to overclocking. We promote overclocking achievements and competitions for professionals as well as enthousiasts with rankings and a huge hardware database.




hwbot.org


----------



## YoungChris

My OS is here:





Sparky's OSs for benching SP32M on current gen Intel and AMD.7z







drive.google.com




The tool to use that OS backup is here:


https://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v8/ReflectDLHT.exe


I'm more than happy to walk anyone here through how to set it up and get some scores.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k SP88/89 
M13A - Bios 1007

51|46 - LLC2 1.48
[email protected]
SA - 1.4, MCIO 1.35



this is supers table.. passes everything tm5, karhu etc
cons is no more fast boot


----------



## shamino1978

Clausewitz said:


> Just a heads up: 1007 was pulled from the Z590-E Support site: ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI
> 
> Maximus APEX XIII Now only has 0903 as the latest - no 1007 or equivalent: ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX｜Z590 Motherboard


dtpm or ftpm was enabled by default depending on whats available

sales and pms disagree on this
hence removed.


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k SP88/89
> M13A - Bios 1007
> 
> 51|46 - LLC2 1.48
> [email protected]
> SA - 1.4, MCIO 1.35
> this is supers table.. passes everything tm5, karhu etc
> cons is no more fast boot


Currently im running 
11900k SP86
M13A - Bios 1007

52|46 - LLC6 1.395V
[email protected]
SA - 1.3, MCIO 1.2

3866-14-15-15-28 boots @ 1,45SA/1,4 IO but is far from stable. Anything I can do to get it stable?


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> Currently im running
> 11900k SP86
> M13A - Bios 1007
> 
> 52|46 - LLC6 1.395V
> [email protected]
> SA - 1.3, MCIO 1.2
> 
> 3866-14-15-15-28 boots @ 1,45SA/1,4 IO but is far from stable. Anything I can do to get it stable?


u got pmed.


----------



## xl_digit

@Lownage i´m running 3866-14-14-14-28 with io 1.05, sa 1.50, you can try your setting with a little bit more sa and VDimm.


----------



## IronAge

Curious what this one is going to do with M13A under 280mm D5 CLC.

(screen is from pre-owner under LN2)


----------



## bigcid10

cstkl1 said:


> sync all core
> set the core speed u want like 5.1.. so 51
> vcore set manual.
> set the vcore u think can boot
> 
> test
> 
> baller btw ure 4533 dual rank stable on stix-e


no,usable but wasn't stable
had to drop down to 4400
Thank you


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> no.
> until today theres no evidence even nvme trumping ssd in gaming in a manner where one can say nvme the way to go
> 
> its because nvme are cheaper or equal to ssd.. ppl are adopting to it.
> 
> and serious work requiring nvmes are normally optanes on x299, x399, trx etc platform..


So why do I get fps drops, jump in frametime and stutters when a game reads from the disk?


----------



## cstkl1

bigcid10 said:


> no,usable but wasn't stable
> had to drop down to 4400
> Thank you


dude. ure can do it


Astral85 said:


> So why do I get fps drops, jump in frametime and stutters when a game reads from the disk?


pagefile ..


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> So why do I get fps drops, jump in frametime and stutters when a game reads from the disk?


Disk! 😲


----------



## CallMeODZ

Astral85 said:


> So why do I get fps drops, jump in frame time and stutters when a game reads from the disk?


what game? in cp2077 i notice zero difference in anything when i run nvme & gpu at pcie 3.0 or 4.0 aside from a small reduction in fps
but load/pop in is all the same - i had to drop it back from 4.0 to 3.0 because of whea errors, I'm sure iv missed a driver or something in the manual regarding this so time for me to rtfm


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> dude. ure can do it
> 
> 
> pagefile ..


My pagefile is set to automatically manage. It's set at 2048MB. Do I need to increase it? Disable it? 32GB RAM...


----------



## Astral85

CallMeODZ said:


> what game? in cp2077 i notice zero difference in anything when i run nvme & gpu at pcie 3.0 or 4.0 aside from a small reduction in fps
> but load/pop in is all the same - i had to drop it back from 4.0 to 3.0 because of whea errors, I'm sure iv missed a driver or something in the manual regarding this so time for me to rtfm


Pretty much all games... I experience some kind of bottleneck resulting in frame time spikes and stutters. I have the NVMe my games are on hooked into MSI AB OSD from HWiNFO showing me the disk activity while I'm playing. A lot of the time there are spikes in disk reads when the stutters occur...


----------



## YoungChris

I disable pagefile


----------



## Astral85

YoungChris said:


> I disable pagefile


For what reasons?


----------



## YoungChris

Astral85 said:


> For what reasons?


it's been an OC tweak I've done for over a year now, so I do it for all my systems


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> My pagefile is set to automatically manage. It's set at 2048MB. Do I need to increase it? Disable it? 32GB RAM...


u dont need it bro. 

so far 3090 very few games @4k pages above 32


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> it's been an OC tweak I've done for over a year now, so I do it for all my systems


its save the nvme/ssd nand tweak lol.


----------



## heavyrain

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It was not "1N" and "2N" we were talking about. We were talking about the "n to 1 ratio mode".
> 
> View attachment 2516946
> 
> 
> Gear 2 magnifies the difference in command rates so on Asus MBs the "1N" should be different from "N:1=3" based on the test results.


how to find reference manual about N:1 MODE


----------



## sugi0lover

just a little bit more OC today.


M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1007)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
Memory OC : 3920Mhz-13-14-14-28-215-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.620v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.45v : Mem OC IO 1.40v


----------



## YoungChris

I saw the YouTube notification lol
@sugi0lover Awesome tRFC!


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> just a little bit more OC today.
> 
> 
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1007)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 16GB (2 x 8GB) (F4-4000C15D-16GTRG)
> Memory OC : 3920Mhz-13-14-14-28-215-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.620v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.45v : Mem OC IO 1.40v
> 
> 
> View attachment 2519370


Nice job as usual!

What I want to know, is does it go over 300fps in tombraider like 5950x with 3800c14 tweaked?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Nice job as usual!
> 
> What I want to know, is does it go over 300fps in tombraider like 5950x with 3800c14 tweaked?


why nobody want to test NFS heat..
let ure 3090 and cpu all max out with avx 800-850w..... i wonder where the this 5950x tweaked will be if not whea or mouse/kb disconnected...
just vs a stock 11900k with ok this case to be fair no 5kc17 ram.. 3866c14..

but it seems 4k daily is insight soon...


----------



## Nizzen

Astral85 said:


> Pretty much all games... I experience some kind of bottleneck resulting in frame time spikes and stutters. I have the NVMe my games are on hooked into MSI AB OSD from HWiNFO showing me the disk activity while I'm playing. A lot of the time there are spikes in disk reads when the stutters occur...


Optane 905p for OS/games/programs FTW


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> why nobody want to test NFS heat..
> let ure 3090 and cpu all max out with avx 800-850w..... i wonder where the this 5950x tweaked will be if not whea or mouse/kb disconnected...
> just vs a stock 11900k with ok this case to be fair no 5kc17 ram.. 3866c14..
> 
> but it seems 4k daily is insight soon...


Nobody has the game LOL


----------



## Knoxx29

This thread has become more like Ram overclocking absesion and the Winner is however add more voltage to it.


----------



## Groove2013

Knoxx29 said:


> This thread has become more like Ram overclocking absesion and the Winner is however add more voltage to it.


Or who can keep it cooler...


----------



## Nizzen

Knoxx29 said:


> This thread has become more like Ram overclocking absesion and the Winner is however add more voltage to it.


I isn't strange at all, when the real performance lays in the memoryperformance


----------



## Groove2013

Nizzen said:


> I isn't strange at all, when the real performance lays in the memoryperformance


And always has been, additionally to CPU OC.


----------



## IronAge

RKL Platform is limited when it comes to CPU OC performance gain with ambient cooling.

especially when you buy 11900K/F

11700K is of better value but intels binning brings pita, i have still three 11700K around, nobody wants them.

the best has SP69 und does 5.0 GHz all core non-AVX with close to 1.3V,

even that one i am not able to sell 100$ under the price i have paid.

maybe i should create some keychains with them.


----------



## Jwick

IronAge said:


> RKL Platform is limited when it comes to CPU OC performance gain with ambient cooling.
> 
> especially when you buy 11900K/F
> 
> 11700K is of better value but intels binning brings pita, i have still three 11700K around, nobody wants them.
> 
> the best has SP69 und does 5.0 GHz all core non-AVX with close to 1.3V,
> 
> even that one i am not able to sell 100$ under the price i have paid.
> 
> maybe i should create some keychains with them.


RIP


----------



## bigcid10

cstkl1 said:


> sync all core
> set the core speed u want like 5.1.. so 51
> vcore set manual.
> set the vcore u think can boot
> 
> test
> 
> baller btw ure 4533 dual rank stable on stix-e


I set it up like you said but the bios doesn't seem to follow 
still is clocking to 53/50 and everything in between
maybe you can answer this question as well ?
windows TMGR show the correct clock speed and memory speed
but all other apps like hwm,aida,amoury crate,etc show like 694MHz
and memory is like the same
thought it was a power management issue but all the setting are correct 
in windows and the bios
maybe it's a windows 11 thing,lol 
Thank you


----------



## Scrdvr

5.4 f 普


----------



## freddy85

Heidi said:


> Folks...short and simple question....
> I am in doubt between 11700k and 11900k...
> Mobo is Z590 PG Velicita...Ram Patriot 4400...
> What will I miss if shoot out for 11700k as it is significantly cheaper than 11900k....
> Thanks.


I have 11700k and get 5GHz all core and 5.2 at partial load just with Asus AI overclock, sure the 11900k is better, but I don't think the price gap can be justified performance wise.. 11700k I pretty good value.


----------



## Wishmaker

Just installed this puppy. 
I need to do some reading how to give it a bit more grit .


----------



## Groove2013

Wishmaker said:


> Just installed this puppy.
> I need to do some reading how to give it a bit more grit .
> View attachment 2519471


Lëtzebuerg FTW! )))


----------



## Astral85

Is anyone getting coil whine from the Maximus XIII Hero?


----------



## bscool

Astral85 said:


> Is anyone getting coil whine from the Maximus XIII Hero?


On z590 Hero if I don't set a static core ratio and manually set voltages i do. Setting things static and manually I don't hear it or if it is still there i dont notice it. I also have a z590 Apex and don't hear the noise/whine. But then I pretty much always use static clocks and voltages on the Apex.


----------



## Knoxx29

IronAge said:


> even that one i am not able to sell 100$ under the price i have paid.


maybe you meant €?


----------



## Astral85

bscool said:


> On z590 Hero if I don't set a static core ratio and manually set voltages i do. Setting things static and manually I don't hear it or if it is still there i dont notice it. I also have a z590 Apex and don't hear the noise/whine. But then I pretty much always use static clocks and voltages on the Apex.


So is the coil whine somehow inherent to the Hero or the z590 boards? Is this an electrical design issue rather than a fault per say?


----------



## bscool

Astral85 said:


> So is the coil whine somehow inherent to the Hero or the z590 boards? Is this an electrical design issue rather than a fault per say?


I don't know. I seen a few other people complain about the z590 Hero over on the Asus support forum.

I know other MB I have had in the past also had more noise/coil whine if i didn't set static volts and clocks also.


----------



## reddify

Astral85 said:


> So is the coil whine somehow inherent to the Hero or the z590 boards? Is this an electrical design issue rather than a fault per say?


No. I have my Hero on open test bench and never hear any coil whine at all.


----------



## IronAge

reddify said:


> No. I have my Hero on open test bench and never hear any coil whine at all.


there is also something good about getting older.


----------



## YoungChris

Been teaching a user in Japan how to bench SuperPi 32M on Rocket Lake. We have found some interesting results. His score is the top, mine is the bottom. We use the same OS.
















Single rank subtimings are tighter, with tRDRD and tWRWR dr/dd timings reduced to 4. I don't know what his RTLs are, but they are likely similar, +/- 1.
Even with that, and a bclk advantage, my score is 666ms faster.
I believe at exact same clocks, dual rank should be 700-800ms faster than single rank.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> Been teaching a user in Japan how to bench SuperPi 32M on Rocket Lake. We have found some interesting results. His score is the top, mine is the bottom. We use the same OS.
> View attachment 2519564
> 
> View attachment 2519563
> 
> Single rank subtimings are tighter, with tRDRD and tWRWR dr/dd timings reduced to 4. I don't know what his RTLs are, but they are likely similar, +/- 1.
> Even with that, and a bclk advantage, my score is 666ms faster.
> I believe at exact same clocks, dual rank should be 700-800ms faster than single rank.


@safedisk


----------



## YoungChris

Safedisk will probably retry 5g SuperPi eventually, among many other things, although I know he has been very busy with work lately.


----------



## cstkl1

@Lownage

3866 setting for apex with sa/io low
1) set these algo
senseamp offset training disable
senseamp offset retraining disable
read timing centering 1d enable
roundtrip latency enable
turnaround timing training disable

2)edit.. skews let asus validate go back to 0801 and before or now. 

3)mrc fast boot disable ( sa loadline 2 or 3 can overcome this )

4) sa/mcio 1.3-1.4/ 1.35

mcio depends what rtl u want. 1.35 the best.

theres some other tweaks for weaker bdies like mine..


----------



## cstkl1

and try these timings. for 3866c14

it works for ocf also

sa 1.4 was better for high clock and gets rtl 60/61


----------



## PhoenixMDA

As i know skew like cmd trained value's and no fixed.That was the reason why i have set it on wifi Z390 with 4x8gb, there was it really bad and not equal trained.
Its like bl.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> As i know skew like cmd trained value's and no fixed.That was the reason why i have set it on wifi Z390 with 4x8gb, there was it really bad and not equal trained.
> Its like bl.


its fixed. its not a "trained" value

bios 0801 has diff skews.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

I don't think so


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> and try these timings. for 3866c14
> 
> it works for ocf also
> 
> sa 1.4 was better for high clock and gets rtl 60/61
> 
> View attachment 2519583


Higher SA naturally trained lower RTL?
Also, is it possible to manually train RTL?


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I don't think so


hmm. pity.


YoungChris said:


> Higher SA naturally trained lower RTL?
> Also, is it possible to manually train RTL?


mcio, sa this case coincidental


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> hmm. pity.
> 
> mcio, sa this case coincidental


Any chance you can manually set what RTL you want? If so, that might push me to get an Asus board...


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> Any chance you can manually set what RTL you want? If so, that might push me to get an Asus board...


fae told me cant
afaik that rtl algo thing is by intel.

also better right. dont want the horrors of cml. where some clocks have to guess the rtl to boot. and cml SA effects rtl. higher sa tigher rtl.

rkl mcio effects rtl on training


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> fae told me cant
> afaik that rtl algo thing is by intel.
> 
> also better right. dont want the horrors of cml. where some clocks have to guess the rtl to boot. and cml SA effects rtl. higher sa tigher rtl.
> 
> rkl mcio effects rtl on training


ASRock and Gigabyte both have fully manual RTL working, not sure why they're the only ones.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> ASRock and Gigabyte both have fully manual RTL working, not sure why they're the only ones.


even if they could its going to be inbetween what rtl algo trains 


YoungChris said:


> ASRock and Gigabyte both have fully manual RTL working, not sure why they're the only ones.


but y though? the max u can do is what ure mcio is and that has a margin with Sa which is affected by vtt which is linked by vdimm.

??? has anybody ever go lower than trained breaking the above? meaning low vdimm, decent sa, decent mcio??


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> even if they could its going to be inbetween what rtl algo trains
> 
> but y though? the max u can do is what ure mcio is and that has a margin with Sa which is affected by vtt which is linked by vdimm.
> 
> ??? has anybody ever go lower than trained breaking the above? meaning low vdimm, decent sa, decent mcio??


I'm gonna be real with you
I did not understand any of this


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> I'm gonna be real with you
> I did not understand any of this


based on my testing

it starts with vdimm bro
which uses vtt which affects Sa
and mcio has a min/max diff to sa
which affects rtl

thats y going too high sa on rkl is bad unless u overvolt vdimm

so based on this relationship what good is it to manually set a rtl?
can it lower rtl while maintaining low mcio and sa?

also this is y i requested eventual vtt which gives opportunity to bad/normal bdie dr.


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> based on my testing
> 
> it starts with vdimm bro
> which uses vtt which affects Sa
> and mcio has a min/max diff to sa
> which affects rtl
> 
> thats y going too high sa on rkl is bad unless u overvolt vdimm
> 
> so based on this relationship what good is it to manually set a rtl?
> can it lower rtl while maintaining low mcio and sa?
> 
> also this is y i requested eventual vtt which gives opportunity to bad/normal bdie dr.


well
I have seen situations (~4000c12) on ASRock where plain Round Trip Latency Training did 55/56 and manual RTL did 54/54, I'd say that's a pretty considerable gain


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> well
> I have seen situations (~4000c12) on ASRock where plain Round Trip Latency Training did 55/56 and manual RTL did 54/54, I'd say that's a pretty considerable gain


ok lets see asus sr 

c14 2t is 59/60 , 1t is 58/59
c13 1t is 56/57
c12 1t is 54/55

going higher mcio can lower this since everything starts with overvolting vdimm..

also asus has undisclosed tweaks that reduced latency.

edit mcio will be effected because of vdimm. 

so it will be tighter than 54/55


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> higher mcio can lower this since everything starts with overvolting vdimm..
> 
> also asus has undisclosed tweaks that reduced latency.
> 
> edit mcio will be effected because of vdimm.
> 
> so it will be tighter than 54/55


maybe I should bump MCIO a bit more then 
I'm only at 1.65, I still have some headroom


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> maybe I should bump MCIO a bit more then
> I'm only at 1.65, I still have some headroom


ure bump so much vdimm so ya.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> hmm. pity.
> 
> mcio, sa this case coincidental


I quote times Raja(asus) from 2013


> Alters the bias on signal lines to avoid mis-reads. The Sense Amplifiers work good at Auto which lets *BIOS decide the best for each*.


But you will be right, they seem to know exactly what they are doing there.With that I leave the topic to be good.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

YoungChris said:


> ASRock and Gigabyte both have fully manual RTL working, not sure why they're the only ones.


I didn't realize you could adjust RTLs on ASRock. I just changed from 60/61 to 59/60 and got a slight bump in bandwidth.


----------



## cstkl1

PhoenixMDA said:


> I quote times Raja(asus) from 2013
> 
> 
> But you will be right, they seem to know exactly what they are doing there.With that I leave the topic to be good.


lol its the same as your assumption skews are trained.
i think best leave it at that. 😉

pity. if only xtremesystem forum wasnt down.. we can start quoting alot from raja.
in particular rtl.

guess we knew how x48,x58 turnout dont we.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> i think best leave it at that. 😉


Thats i think also.


----------



## Astral85

bscool said:


> I don't know. I seen a few other people complain about the z590 Hero over on the Asus support forum.
> 
> I know other MB I have had in the past also had more noise/coil whine if i didn't set static volts and clocks also.


I owned the Z590 for 4 months and never heard any coil whine. Now when I log into Windows I get a loud buzz. When I run CB R23 I get a loud grinding buzz as the test starts. These sounds are highly obvious. I suspect the whine came with the newer BIOS's and was never present in the hardware to begin with but I don't anyone other than Asus know the answer to that...


----------



## IronAge

@Astral85 

try disabling power saving states, like C6 and see if it helps when it annoys you that much.


----------



## Astral85

IronAge said:


> @Astral85
> 
> try disabling power saving states, like C6 and see if it helps when it annoys you that much.


I have heard all about disabling C-states, I just don't understand why I am suddenly hearing coil noises now after owning the board for 4 months. I've seen the thread at Asus forums and when I first saw it I didn't even pay attention because I thought to myself I don't have coil whine. Maybe I've just never noticed it until now, it's a mystery.


----------



## YoungChris

0451 said:


> I didn't realize you could adjust RTLs on ASRock. I just changed from 60/61 to 59/60 and got a slight bump in bandwidth.


You are on Rocket Lake, right?
Can you show me your ASRock Timing Configurator?


----------



## Lownage

@cstkl1 
Your trick made it work for me:









At 44°C my dimms become unstable though


----------



## yahfz

What trick?


----------



## Lownage

yahfz said:


> What trick?











Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


5.4 f 普




www.overclock.net


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> @cstkl1
> Your trick made it work for me:
> View attachment 2519685
> 
> 
> At 44°C my dimms become unstable though


54C no issue for me


----------



## sugi0lover

testing 4000Mhz CL13 (no bclk OC) with 11900K & Apex XIII
4000Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T
gonna stablize 4000Mhz setting soon if possible.


----------



## Astral85

@safedisk @shamino1978 Is this a bug?? Please see row 1 of OCTVB, BIOS 0902:


----------



## geriatricpollywog

YoungChris said:


> You are on Rocket Lake, right?
> Can you show me your ASRock Timing Configurator?


Yes, I'm on Rocket Lake. This 2x8 Patriot kit is not tuned. Rather, its running the same timings from my Gskill 2x16, which I just RMAd it for an exchange. I stole the timings from @cstkl1. When I get my replacement 2x16 kit, I will confirm if adjusting RTLs will improve anything. In the 2x8 set, it gave me about 500 MB/s read.


----------



## shamino1978

Astral85 said:


> @safedisk @shamino1978 Is this a bug?? Please see row 1 of OCTVB, BIOS 0902:
> 
> View attachment 2519726


yes. Its consistently showing that? The cml and rkl registers are slightly different, maybe part of rkl implementation spilled into cml


----------



## Astral85

shamino1978 said:


> yes. Its consistently showing that? The cml and rkl registers are slightly different, maybe part of rkl implementation spilled into cml


Yes consistently and I'm on CML... Is it a functional or visual bug?


----------



## Astral85

@shamino1978










Edit: Hmmm.... Look what happens when I open it a second time:










Not sure if Controls looks right??


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Astral85 said:


> @shamino1978
> 
> View attachment 2519735
> 
> 
> Edit: Hmmm.... Look what happens when I open it a second time:
> 
> View attachment 2519736
> 
> 
> Not sure if Controls looks right??
> 
> View attachment 2519737


This OCTVB application sometimes has this bug... If you close and open it again, than it read correctly the temperatures.


----------



## Astral85

RobertoSampaio said:


> This OCTVB application sometimes has this bug... If you close and open it again, than it read correctly the temperatures.


I see that thanks.


----------



## shamino1978

It will be obvious if its a glitch with reading or actually setting 53 downbins. So its just a read glitch right


----------



## cstkl1

bringing down trfc for 3866c14..
280 looks ok

want to get back 249 (m13e)


----------



## Clausewitz

1007 BIOS is back up. I'm not sure if this means something was added to it or if it's the same.


----------



## yahfz

Lownage said:


> Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> 5.4 f 普
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks. Unfortunately it didn't work for me. I'm on the m13h tho


----------



## Groove2013

Clausewitz said:


> 1007 BIOS is back up. I'm not sure if this means something was added to it or if it's the same.


Good question!


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> Good question!


binary comparison > they are equal, not a single different bit. (checked for M13A only)


----------



## sugi0lover

passing HCI 2100%
SA maybe too high?

Memory OC : 4000Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.550v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.35v


----------



## YoungChris

sugi0lover said:


> passing HCI 2100%
> SA maybe too high?
> 
> Memory OC : 4000Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.550v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.35v
> 
> View attachment 2519800


Can you boot 1t? Also, what happens when you enable turn around timing training?


----------



## sugi0lover

YoungChris said:


> Can you boot 1t? Also, what happens when you enable turn around timing training?


For the same voltages, 1T can't be booted. and I am not sure what effect enabling/disabling turn around timing training has.


----------



## cstkl1

yahfz said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately it didn't work for me. I'm on the m13h tho


4dimm try to copy the profile i gave for m13e.

@owikh84 posted here before


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> For the same voltages, 1T can't be booted. and I am not sure what effect enabling/disabling turn around timing training has.


afaik it affects mcio on rtl only. 
but i myself not sure. 

i think default might be disabled. again not sure.


----------



## YoungChris

I'll have to try on Dark


----------



## cstkl1

afaik

turnaround by right suppose to tune third timings in particular _dd/_dr

so its like a basic tuning by intel algo.. by right its 
u set ure ram main, secondary by asus mode 1 dram clk , enable rtl, enable turnaround. thats like the basic auto oc . trdrd 4/4, tfaw 16 trefi 65k is to increase coverage speed etc. 

in x299 etc or 10900k we normally disable it cause u can end up diff values on channel A and B

this 3866 disable thing it might just be to shorten/skip training sequence than it actually doing anything. 

i normally always disable it.


----------



## Wishmaker

Yesterday I decided to unlock a few things in the Asus Bios for my 11900k to see how it works. 
I was gaming with an all core speed at 5100 MHz and then I see Asus decided to give it 1.53v.
Is this a safe voltage for this cpu?


----------



## satinghostrider

Wishmaker said:


> Yesterday I decided to unlock a few things in the Asus Bios for my 11900k to see how it works.
> I was gaming with an all core speed at 5100 MHz and then I see Asus decided to give it 1.53v.
> Is this a safe voltage for this cpu?


Master @cstkl1 guided me through the overclock to 5.1/4.6 and I needed 1.5V.
Stock gaming temps peaked 64 degrees and now overclocked 5.1/4.6 is peaking 71 degrees.
I think as long as you do not run any AVX related stuff, those voltages are fine. I presume your is high SP70 or SP80ish?
Cause mine needed 1.5V for SP83.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

satinghostrider said:


> Master @cstkl1 guided me through the overclock to 5.1/4.6 and I needed 1.5V.
> Stock gaming temps peaked 64 degrees and now overclocked 5.1/4.6 is peaking 71 degrees.
> I think as long as you do not run any AVX related stuff, those voltages are fine. I presume your is high SP70 or SP80ish?
> Cause mine needed 1.5V for SP83.


Do you mind if I ask how you are cooling 1.5v at 64C?


----------



## satinghostrider

0451 said:


> Do you mind if I ask how you are cooling 1.5v at 64C?












EKWB Magnitude Block + EKWB 2x360mm Coolstream PE Radiators with 6xAdata XPG Vento 120mm Nidec fans.

Do note those are only gaming temps. And to clarify, 64 degrees was stock 11900k and 71 degrees was 5.1/4.6 overclocked.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2519850
> 
> 
> EKWB Magnitude Block + EKWB 2x360mm Coolstream PE Radiators with 6xAdata XPG Vento 120mm Nidec fans.
> 
> Do note those are only gaming temps. And to clarify, 64 degrees was stock 11900k and 71 degrees was 5.1/4.6 overclocked.


That’s a nice setup! And you are in good hands with @cstkl1


----------



## satinghostrider

0451 said:


> That’s a nice setup! And you are in good hands with @cstkl1


Thanks man! Absolutely great tutelage from @cstkl1 😎


----------



## geriatricpollywog

satinghostrider said:


> Thanks man! Absolutely great tutelage from @cstkl1 😎


Same. I’m a difficult student though!


----------



## Wishmaker

satinghostrider said:


> Master @cstkl1 guided me through the overclock to 5.1/4.6 and I needed 1.5V.
> Stock gaming temps peaked 64 degrees and now overclocked 5.1/4.6 is peaking 71 degrees.
> I think as long as you do not run any AVX related stuff, those voltages are fine. I presume your is high SP70 or SP80ish?
> Cause mine needed 1.5V for SP83.


Thanks for the reply. 
I will check after work what the SP values are. 
I was playing A Way Out with my buddy and temperatures were 47-52 centigrade with 1.53V @ 5100 all core. 
It was less than 5 minutes when I noticed this behaviour on my second screen. 
Seeing the temperatures and power consumption, it does not seem likely that this game is using AVX. 
Heck I cannot run the game until I add a special environment parameter in windows because of a bug in the Unreal Engine. Intel fixed this in Rocket Lake and many encounter issues on games that use this unpatched engine.


----------



## satinghostrider

Wishmaker said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I will check after work what the SP values are.
> I was playing A Way Out with my buddy and temperatures were 47-52 centigrade with 1.53V @ 5100 all core.
> It was less than 5 minutes when I noticed this behaviour on my second screen.
> Seeing the temperatures and power consumption, it does not seem likely that this game is using AVX.
> Heck I cannot run the game until I add a special environment parameter in windows because of a bug in the Unreal Engine. Intel fixed this in Rocket Lake and many encounter issues on games that use this unpatched engine.


No worries. Those temps honestly don't look like that game is even **** teasing the CPU. I know on COD, I'm only hitting 4.8GHz because it's using all my cores with some AVX load. I suspect for your game, you'll probably be hitting 5.3 randomly on 1 core for a short period because it isn't taxing or using any form of avx.

But if this is the only game you're playing, then those temps are really good. You might just wanna try another game like Coldwar for example as that is quite heavy on CPU. Actually the whole game stresses the system quite a fair bit. Gamed 4 hours on 5.1/4.6 at 1.5V last night and it's been flawless. So I think yours at 1.53V should at most be slightly more than mine but YMMV depending on your cooling setup.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

satinghostrider said:


> Master @cstkl1 guided me through the overclock to 5.1/4.6 and I needed 1.5V.
> Stock gaming temps peaked 64 degrees and now overclocked 5.1/4.6 is peaking 71 degrees.
> I think as long as you do not run any AVX related stuff, those voltages are fine. I presume your is high SP70 or SP80ish?
> Cause mine needed 1.5V for SP83.


Enable "vmaxstress" and "voltage optimization". It will help you...


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Do you mind if I ask how you are cooling 1.5v at 64C?


he is llc2 1.5v vmax ( normall because cstate off 20-30amp idle) the vcore idle only 1.3x-1.4
vmin will be arnd 1.23-1.25v

i find its the best stable for high cache , vmin, cpu temps.

and @shamino1978 ai prediction is dead accurate.


----------



## cstkl1

RobertoSampaio said:


> Enable "vmaxstress" and "voltage optimization". It will help you...


works diff for 11900k
if u enable vmax stress 
all cores will be maxed out as per cpu usage limit

meaning two cores will run 53

voltage optimization is more for octvb. rkl the margin for error vs temps not as much as cml.


----------



## yahfz

cstkl1 said:


> 4dimm try to copy the profile i gave for m13e.
> 
> @owikh84 posted here before


I'm on 2x16 BDIE DR. Unless you were talking about the fact that the board has 4 dimm slots.


----------



## Jwick

CUSTOM LOOP WATER
no disabling explorer, or high priority.
5g cache might need a bit more work.
-75% droop


----------



## Clausewitz

Guys, I am at a loss here. I've tried several 11900Ks in a Z590-E board and they always show SP 50. I've tried multiple BIOS versions. This has to be some kind of bug.

Can a power supply impact the VID reading and throw off SP? I saw another poster saying the same thing.

This was the other user saying the same thing: Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


----------



## Jwick

CUSTOM LOOP WATER
disabled explorer, running high priority.
not exactly 5g but close enough i guess.
i will see whether i can go flat 5.4/5 or higher using same voltages , but i might need to strip windows down and disable a ton of services.
-75% droop


----------



## Clausewitz

Jwick said:


> View attachment 2519903
> 
> CUSTOM LOOP WATER
> disabled explorer, running high priority.
> not exactly 5g but close enough i guess.
> i see whether i can go flat 5.4/5 or higher , but i might need to strip windows down and disable a ton of services.
> -75% droop


SP rating?


----------



## Wishmaker

Quick and dirty Asus Bios Controlled Run.
SP: 50.
I am not surprised because I never have any luck with silicon.
It does the job I am happy .


----------



## Clausewitz

Wishmaker said:


> Quick and dirty Asus Bios Controlled Run.
> SP: 50.
> I am not surprised because I never have any luck with silicon.
> It does the job I am happy .
> 
> View attachment 2519908


Open Task Manager >> Details >> Cinebench >> Set Priority >> Realtime >> Test Again


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Clausewitz said:


> SP rating?


Have you tried overclocking any of then or do you only look at the SP rating? On a non-Asus board it takes me 10 minutes to ballpark how far I’ll be able to overclock each 11900K.


----------



## Clausewitz

0451 said:


> Have you tried overclocking any of then or do you only look at the SP rating? On a non-Asus board it takes me 10 minutes to ballpark how far I’ll be able to overclock each 11900K.


What is your method?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Clausewitz said:


> What is your method?


Set LLC2 (ASRock) and test max stable multiplier at 1.35 and 1.40 core voltage.


----------



## D-EJ915

I plugged in my tachyon to the network for a bench and turns out it needed the 1.45 firmware update, what a nice thing Gigabyte doesn't have the friggin thing on the tachyon download page. Pulled it off the z490 master page and got it updated. What a pain.

Also this 11900k is the worst imaginable, requires so much voltage for not even decent mem oc's.


----------



## Jwick

D-EJ915 said:


> I plugged in my tachyon to the network for a bench and turns out it needed the 1.45 firmware update, what a nice thing Gigabyte doesn't have the friggin thing on the tachyon download page. Pulled it off the z490 master page and got it updated. What a pain.
> 
> Also this 11900k is the worst imaginable, requires so much voltage for not even decent mem oc's.


its probably best to get a chip from SL even tho its a 30% bin , u might get at least something which doesn't suck.they had a 2% bin which got sold , they had 3 of them 2 11900k and one kf which i used to get the scores above.


----------



## Jwick

Clausewitz said:


> SP rating?


i am on the dark so i dont know. i bought a 2% bin from SL.


----------



## Jwick

Wishmaker said:


> Quick and dirty Asus Bios Controlled Run.
> SP: 50.
> I am not surprised because I never have any luck with silicon.
> It does the job I am happy .
> 
> View attachment 2519908


neither do i


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i am on the dark so i dont know. i bought a 2% bin from SL.


errr hmmm 1.5v LLC3 5.1 is a 2%..??
maybe for the current yields intel doing


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> errr hmmm 1.5v LLC3 5.1 is a 2%..??
> maybe for the current yields intel doing











no thats 32% bin , there is another product line which costs 1200$ which is a 2%, its not there in their page anymore.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> errr hmmm 1.5v LLC3 5.1 is a 2%..??
> maybe for the current yields intel doing


It depends on what Silicon Lottery defines as stable. There's quite a big difference between Cinebench R23, OCCT Large Data Set, and Prime95 Small Data Set with AVX512.


----------



## Jwick

Arni90 said:


> It depends on what Silicon Lottery defines as stable. There's quite a big difference between Cinebench R23, OCCT Large Data Set, and Prime95 Small Data Set with AVX512.


their binning is odd, and i dont think they have a huge sample size to test either , cause they dont sell a lot of chips, also they are boxed processors not tray. Another thing to note is how they divide the cpu in bins of 32%, 2%, 67% etc without having a large sample size, and their binned chips do perform, its not a meme. i think they might be getting from intel (dont quote me on that) and they just test it and put a label on them saying 5.2ghz with these conditions, and provide a 1 year warranty.(no ln2, lapping ihs, phase change, dry ice , deliding etc etc.)


----------



## Clausewitz

Silicon Lottery CPUs are binned to never crash. Additionally, it all has to be stable with a 240mm AIO. This makes their binning system very, very strict.

Remember, this is not game stable it's you can't make it crash stable. Here's a post from them on reddit:


_
SiliconLottery_
_
3 points·9 months ago

Our goal when we sell a CPU is that you should be able to run *any* piece of software for weeks straight without any stability issues, against components on our QVL. This is a different goal than a lot of casual overclockers, who just need stability for a certain subset of programs that they themselves use.
This level of stability is difficult to validate, increasingly difficult with the per core overclocks we're doing now as well. We also have to leave a little bit of headroom on top of what we validate to ensure the CPU will remain stable over even longer runs of stressing than what they initially go through here.
Cooling and motherboard choice play a bit factor in those last 50-100MHz of overclocking, but our CPUs have to work with the weakest board on the QVL as well as standard 240mm AIO watercoolers. So using better motherboards and cooling may also let you push a bit further.
If were able to validate a 10900K at 5.3GHz all core, you can bet that we would. There are no shortage of customers wanting the best of the best on our end. We simply have not come across a 10900K out of the near 1000 we've been through that has been able to pass our testing for that._


----------



## GeneO

But their criteria always use an AVX offset, power limits and sometimes power limit duration, do your clock could be effectively lower by 100 MHz or more most of the time. Just to set expectations.


----------



## Jwick

GeneO said:


> But their criteria always use an AVX offset, power limits and sometimes power limit duration, do your clock could be effectively lower by 100 MHz or more most of the time. Just to set expectations.


yes u are right. I cant run their specs on heavy avx 512 it just power throttles/downclocks. But honestly speaking i dont think they lie about their numbers/percentage prediction(i hope so lol). But if u buy a 31% there is a chance u could get a retail chip of that bin(not sure abt now tbh cause cstkl said its all 4x/5x) but i think u could get a 7x/8x bin chip(dont quote me on that, also sometimes the sp rating is buggy it might not necessarily be right) . but they have dropped the price from when it was launched, i believe it was 880$ for a 11900k 5.1bin at the start, but now its 770$. so it may be because people aren't buying or they may have become a bit more lenient on their binning procedure







.


----------



## Jwick

Clausewitz said:


> Silicon Lottery CPUs are binned to never crash. Additionally, it all has to be stable with a 240mm AIO. This makes their binning system very, very strict.
> 
> Remember, this is not game stable it's you can't make it crash stable. Here's a post from them on reddit:
> 
> 
> _SiliconLottery_
> 
> _3 points·9 months ago
> 
> Our goal when we sell a CPU is that you should be able to run *any* piece of software for weeks straight without any stability issues, against components on our QVL. This is a different goal than a lot of casual overclockers, who just need stability for a certain subset of programs that they themselves use.
> This level of stability is difficult to validate, increasingly difficult with the per core overclocks we're doing now as well. We also have to leave a little bit of headroom on top of what we validate to ensure the CPU will remain stable over even longer runs of stressing than what they initially go through here.
> Cooling and motherboard choice play a bit factor in those last 50-100MHz of overclocking, but our CPUs have to work with the weakest board on the QVL as well as standard 240mm AIO watercoolers. So using better motherboards and cooling may also let you push a bit further.
> If were able to validate a 10900K at 5.3GHz all core, you can bet that we would. There are no shortage of customers wanting the best of the best on our end. We simply have not come across a 10900K out of the near 1000 we've been through that has been able to pass our testing for that._


they go through thousands??


----------



## Clausewitz

Jwick said:


> i am on the dark so i dont know. i bought a 2% bin from SL.


What is the SP rating on the 2% bin you bought for $1200?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Do you have the Asus OCTool software for Z590?
Could Share with me?


----------



## Jwick

Clausewitz said:


> What is the SP rating on the 2% bin you bought for $1200?


no idea.i am on a dark i dont have an apex or any asus board, anyone wanna check for me lol


----------



## cstkl1

asus.. 

found that suddenly switching and disabling ringdown to without training ram. can lead to odd behaviour


----------



## sugi0lover

tested gear 1 memory OC under 1.60v ram voltage with 11900K.

Memory OC : 4060Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.600v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.53v / Mem OC IO 1.35v


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Does anyone have a "Mem TweakIt" that works on the z490 and 10900K?
The version I have does not work anymore, I don't know why...


----------



## YoungChris

sugi0lover said:


> tested gear 1 memory OC under 1.60v ram voltage with 11900K.
> 
> Memory OC : 4060Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.600v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.53v / Mem OC IO 1.35v
> 
> View attachment 2520215


Amazing result!


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Clausewitz said:


> What is the SP rating on the 2% bin you bought for $1200?


my 30% bin is SP95. You can choose your SP for an additional $50.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

heavyrain said:


> how to find reference manual about N:1 MODE


I haven't yet found any more info about it. Could just pm TOPPC via QQ.


----------



## reddify

XIII Hero, CPU just MCE, 3866C14. Copy of a build posted here for APEX, just needed to do few tweaks.


----------



## IronAge

reddify said:


> XIII Hero, CPU just MCE, 3866C14. Copy of a build posted here for APEX, just needed to do few tweaks.


Thats really lucky IMC, what does the batch# number start with ?


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Thats really lucky IMC, what does the batch# number start with ?


its not his IMC.. its his rams...


----------



## Groove2013

Baby, here I come...


----------



## Wishmaker

Groove2013 said:


> Baby, here I come...



Eldo Radio?


----------



## Groove2013

Wishmaker said:


> Eldo Radio?


?


----------



## Wishmaker

Whoops, wrong thread!
This is what happens when you work and surf at the same time


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> its not his IMC.. its his rams...


not any CPU can do 3866 on a 4 Dimm Slot Board with DR especially.

i have very good SR B-Die Kits for Gear1, 3866C14 with 1.40-1.45 from Teamgroup.

and none of the CPUs i tried did 3866 on M13H bootable.


----------



## reddify

IronAge said:


> not any CPU can do 3866 on a 4 Dimm Slot Board with DR especially.
> 
> i have very good SR B-Die Kits for Gear1, 3866C14 with 1.40-1.45 from Teamgroup.
> 
> and none of the CPUs i tried did 3866 on M13H bootable.


Yep, this CPU has golden IMC, however "only" SP80. The memory kit is good as well. Sadly this rig is for a customer  He will be happy tho  
Batch V108G766


----------



## yahfz

reddify said:


> Yep, this CPU has golden IMC, however "only" SP80. The memory kit is good as well. Sadly this rig is for a customer  He will be happy tho
> Batch V108G766


Mind sharing the settings/tweaks you used? Trying to do 3866 here on the m13h too.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> not any CPU can do 3866 on a 4 Dimm Slot Board with DR especially.
> 
> i have very good SR B-Die Kits for Gear1, 3866C14 with 1.40-1.45 from Teamgroup.
> 
> and none of the CPUs i tried did 3866 on M13H bootable.


just gonna tell ya my experience..

3866 even my friend thought he couldnt do it until i showed him.

some ram kits wont work on auto. some just do. up to u whether u want to believe me on this but i had been running 3866c14 since december on a sp76 on m13e when that time they said only 3600 was max..

my personal experience.. its just rams.
5kc17 a prime example. most ppl ram cant boot it on mode 1. my 2nd 4800c17 does it easy .

4534/4600 dr another one. some just so easy even a strix z590 can do it

5066c20 dr.. this the gem .. so far i afaik i had the only kit that can do 5200 ..
its with @satinghostrider and he can attest how easy it is to boot 5066c19 on it...

rkl ram chipset quality is insane.
3866 first 4800c17 kit was difficult
second kit is a breeze even 1.3 sa/io will boot..

this y some ppl are annoyed that apex rewards good ram chipset. my experience seems to be inclined to ram chipset rather than imc.


----------



## IronAge

M13E isnt M13H, the extreme has 8 layer PCB

even the M12E seems better in terms of Gear1 memory Clocks, 3933 possible for a mate with SR B-Die.

i dont use auto settings/timings and voltages for a memory kit when i try reaching higher bootable Gear1 clocks.


----------



## bscool

Well I guess I am missing something because I have had Apex z590 and with 2 different 11900k and dozens of high end b die SR and DR cannot run 3866. Testing in z490 Apex, z590 Apex and z590 Hero channel A on both CPUs only does 3733 while channel B can do 4000.

@cstkl1 I have tried the setting you have posted in this thread and still no boot @3866. Usually locks at code 50 from what I remember.

Is my logic off, shouldn't testing single channel be able to boot 3866 if the IMC, ram and MB are capable? But maybe not because as an example z390 Hero can run say 4400 with 4x8 but it probably wouldnt boot at 4400 testing a single stick in each channel. Hmmm.......


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> M13E isnt M13H, the extreme has 8 layer PCB
> 
> even the M12E seems better in terms of Gear1 memory Clocks, 3933 possible for a mate with SR B-Die.
> 
> i dont use auto settings/timings and voltages for a memory kit when i try reaching higher bootable Gear1 clocks.


we already have few ppl here doing 3866 on hero
and even one guy 4x8gb 3866 on hero
so mobo aint da issue

its your debate that its cpu imc and mine says no based on various testing. 

z490 bandwidth and latency is not even close to z590 equivalent.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Well I guess I am missing something because I have had Apex z590 and with 2 different 11900k and dozens of high end b die SR and DR cannot run 3866. Testing in z490 Apex, z590 Apex and z590 Hero channel A on both CPUs only does 3733 while channel B can do 4000.
> 
> @cstkl1 I have tried the setting you have posted in this thread and still no boot @3866. Usually locks at code 50 from what I remember.
> 
> Is my logic off, shouldn't testing single channel be able to boot 3866 if the IMC, ram and MB are capable? But maybe not because as an example z390 Hero can run say 4400 with 4x8 but it probably wouldnt boot at 4400 testing a single stick in each channel. Hmmm.......


thats odd.

well again as i said my sample size is around 4 sp76,81,89,9x.. all could on different boards.
m13e for a certain DR kit i tested.. needed to change some ram algos and even ODT delay to boot. but that board i had it since very immature bios so i had been following all updates so kindda knew what every changes did so could revert some.. 
it got harder later on when ucode 3c onwards started boosting the copy and ucode 24 bios there was also latency reduction...


----------



## cstkl1

@bscool

apex try bios 0801. 
theres some performance loss on copy but its one of the easiest bios to boot 3866 with just main timings.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

3866 on Asrock OCF and I literally just stole timings from cstkl1


----------



## cstkl1

bios 0801 sa auto max is 1.35v btw


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> we already have few ppl here doing 3866 on hero
> and even one guy 4x8gb 3866 on hero
> so mobo aint da issue


then please explain why the exakt CPU and memory kit can reach 3933 gear1 on a extreme whereas on other boards it did not, bandwidth is about the same, so actually i think mobo makes a difference.

Two Dimm Dual Rank needs higher SA/IO than 4 Dimm single Rank despite daisy chain topology ?

(have not tried that myself cause first DR B-Die Kit arrived when i sold my last M13H, and for my needs even 16GB is enough)

i can only remember 2-3 M13H @ 3866 Gear1 in this thread, some cpus require less SA/IO to reach certain settings so in my opinion IMC quality has an impact too.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> then please explain why the exakt CPU and memory kit can reach 3933 gear1 on a extreme whereas on other boards it did not, bandwidth is about the same, so actually i think mobo makes a difference.
> 
> Two Dimm Dual Rank needs higher SA/IO than 4 Dimm single Rank despite daisy chain topology ?
> 
> (have not tried that myself cause first DR B-Die Kit arrived when i sold my last M13H, and for my needs even 16GB is enough)
> 
> i can only remember 2-3 M13H @ 3866 in this thread, some cpus require less SA/IO to reach certain settings so in my opinion IMC quality has an impact too.


bios all asus bios are tuned differently as per board. 

initially apex was bad compared to extreme. thats cause extreme has 3-4 months headstart on bios testing/tuning

the m13e many moons bios ago 3866c14 only needed 1.35

extreme bandwidth is less than apex..the obvious one is copy. the rtl also is not as tight


----------



## musician

Guys I am probably in a big troubles... I bought finally the APEX, and while changing CPU from my old board, a small line of noctua tim get to pins... Yes I most likely used a bit too much of the paste, and was not pay attention while removing the CPU from socket  There was no way how to clean it from pins a dry method, so I tried to take my fresh new DeoxIT D5, and I cleaned the pins with a jet. So now, the pins a crystal clear, but I was horrified to find that DeoxIT D5 is probably oily, at least it seems oily. What to do? Is there anything I can do to save the board?


----------



## IronAge

@cstkl1

Yeah compared to Apex with shorter traces, but we talk about 3866 @ 4 Dimm Slot M13H.

in my opinion the M13H does exceptionally well for a 6 layer PCB with 4 DIMM Slot, no doubts about that.

@musician

you could try washing with isopropyl alcohol 99% or acetone and a compressor.

i already cleaned pins from TIM with isopropyl alcohol and a very soft tooth brush.

small amounts of TIM i would leave where it is if not conductive.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> Baby, here I come...


The sample I received is a real piece of sh!t. Won't keep it.
SP 46 with BIOS 1007...

For so much money... no, thank you.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Groove2013 said:


> The sample I received is a real piece of sh!t. Won't keep it.
> SP 46 with BIOS 1007...
> 
> For so much money... no, thank you.


what is an acceptable SP for that much money?


----------



## Clausewitz

Groove2013 said:


> The sample I received is a real piece of sh!t. Won't keep it.
> SP 46 with BIOS 1007...
> 
> For so much money... no, thank you.



It's starting to seem like the SP50 is "average" now. It's sort of like an SP63 10900k. Two of my friends have SP50 and so do I on two CPUs.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> Yeah compared to Apex with shorter traces, but we talk about 3866 @ 4 Dimm Slot M13H.
> 
> in my opinion the M13H does exceptionally well for a 6 layer PCB with 4 DIMM Slot, no doubts about that.
> 
> @musician
> 
> you could try washing with isopropyl alcohol 99% or acetone and a compressor.
> 
> i already cleaned pins from TIM with isopropyl alcohol and a very soft tooth brush.
> 
> small amounts of TIM i would leave where it is if not conductive.


in my testing apex vs m13e
the difference is not vdimm

its the sa/io required. 

apex took some time for shamino to tune cause when the board was ready, he found some tweaks and intel kept tweaking and updating the ucode. the testing period was really intense as things kept being updated every few days..

m13e being superior to hero because of "pcb"????. to me its not true. m13e was tuned for a very long time.


----------



## cstkl1

Clausewitz said:


> It's starting to seem like the SP50 is "average" now. It's sort of like an SP63 10900k. Two of my friends have SP50 and so do I on two CPUs.


yeah. thats y its really hard now to recommend this cpu unless you are on water.


----------



## D-EJ915

Even 2 SP50s I received have different v/f, one had 1.7v for 53x I mean come on, I sent it back.


----------



## cstkl1

musician said:


> Guys I am probably in a big troubles... I bought finally the APEX, and while changing CPU from my old board, a small line of noctua tim get to pins... Yes I most likely used a bit too much of the paste, and was not pay attention while removing the CPU from socket  There was no way how to clean it from pins a dry method, so I tried to take my fresh new DeoxIT D5, and I cleaned the pins with a jet. So now, the pins a crystal clear, but I was horrified to find that DeoxIT D5 is probably oily, at least it seems oily. What to do? Is there anything I can do to save the cpu?


happen to me once many moons diff board ago.. i use alot of 70% alcohol mix kindda like flood till most if time floated and then just inverted damp with lint free cloth.


----------



## cstkl1

D-EJ915 said:


> Even 2 SP50s I received have different v/f, one had 1.7v for 53x I mean come on, I sent it back.


yeah . so that cpu, the two cores hitting 5.3 will be VERY unlikely at stock . so no diff than 11700k..


----------



## satinghostrider

Groove2013 said:


> The sample I received is a real piece of sh!t. Won't keep it.
> SP 46 with BIOS 1007...
> 
> For so much money... no, thank you.


All the recent 11900k's are pretty much bad on SP rating. My shop sold 6 pieces of 11900k's with Asus Boards and all were around SP48-SP56 rating. Hard to recommend that now since as what @cstkl1 mentioned, 5.3Ghz boost might be hard to achieve and no different from 11700k. 

I was lucky to get SP83 on the first batch when it came out as with most others who got on average SP70s-SP80s.


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool
> 
> apex try bios 0801.
> theres some performance loss on copy but its one of the easiest bios to boot 3866 with just main timings.


Tried 0801 again with your settings and still no go.

Settings I tried>>>>>>

3866 setting for apex with sa/io low
1) set these algo
senseamp offset training disable
senseamp offset retraining disable
read timing centering 1d enable
roundtrip latency enable
turnaround timing training disable

2)edit.. skews let asus validate go back to 0801 and before or now.

3)mrc fast boot disable ( sa loadline 2 or 3 can overcome this )

4) sa/mcio 1.3-1.4/ 1.35

mcio depends what rtl u want. 1.35 the best.

Along with sa up to 1.7 and mcio to 1.55. I know this IMC(sp85) is weaker of the 2 CPUs I had as it needs 1.45 sa to even boot 3733 where the sp55 I had would boot with 1.35 [email protected]

I also tried mode 1 mode 2 all kinds of other variations in the past. I give up on 3866 

Note when I set mode 2 it locks/freezes @ code 50 and when mode left on auto or set to mode 1 it just boot loops when trying 3866.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Tried 0801 again with your settings and still no go.
> 
> Settings I tried>>>>>>
> 
> 3866 setting for apex with sa/io low
> 1) set these algo
> senseamp offset training disable
> senseamp offset retraining disable
> read timing centering 1d enable
> roundtrip latency enable
> turnaround timing training disable
> 
> 2)edit.. skews let asus validate go back to 0801 and before or now.
> 
> 3)mrc fast boot disable ( sa loadline 2 or 3 can overcome this )
> 
> 4) sa/mcio 1.3-1.4/ 1.35
> 
> mcio depends what rtl u want. 1.35 the best.
> 
> Along with sa up to 1.7 and mcio to 1.55. I know this IMC(sp85) is weaker of the 2 CPUs I had as it needs 1.45 sa to even boot 3733 where the sp55 I had would boot with 1.35 [email protected]
> 
> I also tried mode 1 mode 2 all kinds of other variations in the past. I give up on 3866
> 
> Note when I set mode 2 it locks/freezes @ code 50 and when mode left on auto or set to mode 1 it just boot loops when trying 3866.


0801 doesnt need the algo change to boot.


----------



## Groove2013

@Falkentyne based on what is the SP value calculated? It depends on how cool the CPU is?


----------



## Groove2013

@Falkentyne because I have installed the CPU without paste, using aluminum foil, so there is 0 scratches on the IHS and 2 plastic pieces on both sides of the IHS, to avoid typical mounting marks and in the BIOS the CPU was at 4.7 GHz with multicore enhancement enabled (no limits) and the temp was over 40°C with Noctua NH-D15.

Is it possible that all of this artificially lowered SP value?


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @Falkentyne based on what is the SP value calculated? It depends on how cool the CPU is?


From my experience, SP doesn't change regardless of the temp. Temp 5c and 30c show the same SP value.


----------



## CallMeODZ

usually people wear tin foil hats, not give them to your cpu. you are a vary caring man. i believe now you have stopped the 5g signal from gimping your cpu the sp value will continue to rise
i suggest 1 hour of sunlight each day to help him grow into a stronger boi


----------



## Nizzen

CallMeODZ said:


> what is an acceptable SP for that much money?


Sp85+ 😅


----------



## Jwick

satinghostrider said:


> All the recent 11900k's are pretty much bad on SP rating. My shop sold 6 pieces of 11900k's with Asus Boards and all were around SP48-SP56 rating. Hard to recommend that now since as what @cstkl1 mentioned, 5.3Ghz boost might be hard to achieve and no different from 11700k.
> 
> I was lucky to get SP83 on the first batch when it came out as with most others who got on average SP70s-SP80s.


is intel holding the good chips or what?


----------



## satinghostrider

Jwick said:


> is intel holding the good chips or what?


I think they have ****ty bins after the 1st batch.


----------



## Nizzen

Rule #1
Allways buy cpu's day one.

This has been the "rule" for Intel cpu's for maybe 15 years.
Good batches allways is early. Free advertising from early adopters 

For me it looks to be that way. I allways got good batches early.

Maybe "tinfoilhat" but i doubt


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I got this CPU a couple weeks ago. 2 of 5 I binned did 5.3 all core.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Jwick said:


> is intel holding the good chips or what?


nah you get the autists who buy 100 trying to get high scores on bench marks, then they return 95 of them and the **** flows through retailers


----------



## Wishmaker

Anyone who doesn't have an SP50 chip should be banned from posting!
I had an option to get an 11900K chip pre-tested by DerBauer but 200 EUR extra on top of the price I paid was not something I wanted to pay, given that I had to buy RAM.
I don't chase WR and for what I do, this machine works like a charm. 
I enjoy watching you guys overlock them tho! So no ban for you!


----------



## IronAge

satinghostrider said:


> I think they have ****ty bins after the 1st batch.


Its been for ages like that with many past architectures, first weeks at least higher probability to get a good one, then many meeehhh or mediocre batches at best.

and i thought the SP62 11700K i got a few weeks back is really bad. i am afraid of opening the last closed box 11700K.


----------



## CallMeODZ

IronAge said:


> Its been for ages like that with many past architectures, first weeks at least higher probability to get a good one, then many meeehhh or mediocre batches at best.
> 
> and i thought the SP62 11700K i got a few weeks back is really bad. i am afraid of opening the last closed box 11700K.


you will have grooves chip in it!


----------



## D-EJ915

I'm not sure that's really entirely accurate, for X299 at least all of the better CPUs I've had are from later production runs, my 2017 ones are all poor overclockers in comparison.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> View attachment 2520521
> @Falkentyne because I have installed the CPU without paste, using aluminum foil, so there is 0 scratches on the IHS and 2 plastic pieces on both sides of the IHS, to avoid typical mounting marks and in the BIOS the CPU was at 4.7 GHz with multicore enhancement enabled (no limits) and the temp was over 40°C with Noctua NH-D15.
> 
> Is it possible that all of this artificially lowered SP value?


th


D-EJ915 said:


> I'm not sure that's really entirely accurate, for X299 at least all of the better CPUs I've had are from later production runs, my 2017 ones are all poor overclockers in comparison.


the sp score is indicative. if u see the v/f of 5.3 above 1.52.. thats fud. 

intel is either streching their yields or not interested in improving their batch yields.


----------



## Groove2013

Reinstalled it with Cryonaut and still Noctua NH-D15S.

BIOS 1007 Apex.


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> the sp score is indicative. if u see the v/f of 5.3 above 1.52.. thats fud.
> 
> intel is either streching their yields or not interested in improving their batch yields.


It seems almost like only difference between i7 and i9 now is adaptive boost being an option or not.


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> *intel is either streching their yields* or not interested in improving their batch yields.


this, 11900K availability used to be bad, they lowered the requirements.

i been pissed about SP62 11700K a few weeks back, now look at these sub optimal 11900K.


----------



## Groove2013




----------



## IronAge

D-EJ915 said:


> I'm not sure that's really entirely accurate, for X299 at least all of the better CPUs I've had are from later production runs, my 2017 ones are all poor overclockers in comparison.


i have had more than a dozen Skylake-X, and the first ones especially from Week 716 been really good.
and the one i got from RMA when Refresh was already available, late Skylake-X production been ok too.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Groove2013 said:


> Baby, here I come...



Is the Optane still worth it?
Could be Asus RAMCACHE_III a better choice?


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> th
> 
> 
> the sp score is indicative. if u see the v/f of 5.3 above 1.52.. thats fud.
> 
> intel is either streching their yields or not interested in improving their batch yields.


Intel is going to release Rocke Lacke based Xeons. And I think the better chips will go there.


----------



## cstkl1

D-EJ915 said:


> It seems almost like only difference between i7 and i9 now is adaptive boost being an option or not.


yeah. at that auto 5.1 is too overvolted..
so atm seriously 11900k vs 11700k.. no benefit from binning. 


Groove2013 said:


> Intel is going to release Rocke Lacke based Xeons. And I think the better chips will go there.


they dont boost to 5.3.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> View attachment 2520569


Not booting 3866 whatever I do...
3733 works.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Is anybody interested in this CPU before I post in classifieds? Solid 5.25 ghz and runs 3866 14-15-15 with both Patriot 4400c19 and Gskill 4000c14. It did a 30 minute stress test using Prime95 small fft AVX off at 5.3ghz, but required over 1.5v and pulled 313w.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Curious if any of you guys are running 5.3GHz or higher all core clock stable for 24/7 usage. I just tested some basic OC at 5.3 last night and it didn’t crash after a short 30 minute bench. Temps stayed under 70C. But it’s pulling 290W. So I’m wondering what others are doing for their actual day to day clocks in terms of stability


----------



## Nizzen

RobertoSampaio said:


> Is the Optane still worth it?
> Could be Asus RAMCACHE_III a better choice?


Optane is worth it byond most hardware in 2021 😁

Optane 900/905p is epic for Os/games and programs! Want THE best? Intel Optane dc p5800x pci-e 4.0 😎


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> Curious if any of you guys are running 5.3GHz or higher all core clock stable for 24/7 usage. I just tested some basic OC at 5.3 last night and it didn’t crash after a short 30 minute bench. Temps stayed under 70C. But it’s pulling 290W. So I’m wondering what others are doing for their actual day to day clocks in terms of stability


Mine sits around 273 watts at full load 5.3 which I am comfortable running daily. Nothing I do stresses all 16 threads at 100%. Sometimes board choice makes a difference in power and temps.


----------



## HyperMatrix

0451 said:


> Mine sits around 273 watts at full load 5.3 which I am comfortable running daily. Nothing I do stresses all 16 threads at 100%. Sometimes board choice makes a difference in power and temps.


I just set it to the Asus auto-determined voltage requirement settings from the bios. I'll have to fine tune it later. It's an SP88 but definitely pulls more power than an SP85 chip I had previously that had 1 bum core that didn't want to OC past 5.1GHz. I was just curious if it was reasonable to expect 5.3GHz all core for 24/7 before putting in the time. Have you tried doing anything like 2-core 5.5GHz, 4-core 5.4GHz, and 8-core 5.3GHz? Or at least 4-6 cores at 5.4GHz for a little bit of extra speed during lighter loads?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> I just set it to the Asus auto-determined voltage requirement settings from the bios. I'll have to fine tune it later. It's an SP88 but definitely pulls more power than an SP85 chip I had previously that had 1 bum core that didn't want to OC past 5.1GHz. I was just curious if it was reasonable to expect 5.3GHz all core for 24/7 before putting in the time. Have you tried doing anything like 2-core 5.5GHz, 4-core 5.4GHz, and 8-core 5.3GHz? Or at least 4-6 cores at 5.4GHz for a little bit of extra speed during lighter loads?


It completed the 3DMark CPU test at 5.575 ghz with HT off at around 1.49v. I haven’t tried disabling cores, just HT off. That’s me at #10 on the 8 thread hall of fame. I have no idea what the SP is since I don’t use Asus products.










I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## HyperMatrix

0451 said:


> It completed the 3DMark CPU test at 5.575 ghz with HT off at around 1.49v. I haven’t tried disabling cores, just HT off. That’s me at #10 on the 8 thread hall of fame. I have no idea what the SP is since I don’t use Asus products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2520612


That's very impressive! I didn't mean disabling cores though. I meant variable boost clock based on how many CPU cores are being used. So during 1-2 core light usage it'll have 2 of those cores at 5.5GHz. With 3-6 core usage it'll boost just those 3-6 cores to 5.4GHz. When all cores are under load, it would then go back to 5.3GHz.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> That's very impressive! I didn't mean disabling cores though. I meant variable boost clock based on how many CPU cores are being used. So during 1-2 core light usage it'll have 2 of those cores at 5.5GHz. With 3-6 core usage it'll boost just those 3-6 cores to 5.4GHz. When all cores are under load, it would then go back to 5.3GHz.


I haven’t tried that yet. I’m not entirely sure how.


----------



## GtiJason

musician said:


> Guys I am probably in a big troubles... I bought finally the APEX, and while changing CPU from my old board, a small line of noctua tim get to pins... Yes I most likely used a bit too much of the paste, and was not pay attention while removing the CPU from socket  There was no way how to clean it from pins a dry method, so I tried to take my fresh new DeoxIT D5, and I cleaned the pins with a jet. So now, the pins a crystal clear, but I was horrified to find that DeoxIT D5 is probably oily, at least it seems oily. What to do? Is there anything I can do to save the cpu?


That oily residue is not dangerous, it's there to protect contacts against oxidation and static shock. If you are really concerned about it I frequently use CRC Quick Dry Electrical Contact cleaner, you can buy it at Walmart for around $5 in automotive section. Just make sure it is the red can as that one does not have lubricants or oily protectant. If they are out of stock there just run to cosmetics and grab a bottle of ONYX Pro nail polish remover 100% pure acetone and a cheap set of watercolor art paint brushes from the craft department. Just dip the brush into the acetone bottle and apply to socket with brush moving with the pins. I like to trim the paint brush heads? to shorter lengths before use


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> Intel is going to release Rocke Lacke based Xeons. And I think the better chips will go there.





cstkl1 said:


> they dont boost to 5.3.


Yeah, not 5.3 GHz, but still, 5.1 GHz with only 80 W TDP for a 16 threads Xeon.
So a good chip is really needed for this.


Xeon E-2378G8/162.80 GHz5.10 GHz16 MB80W


----------



## HyperMatrix

0451 said:


> I haven’t tried that yet. I’m not entirely sure how.


Not sure how it works on your mobo but with Asus this is how it goes. You set clocks by core usage.









You can further finetune it by limiting which cores hit 5.5GHz. It highlights your two best cores as you can see. So set them to 55 and all the others to max 54 here:









So in 1 or 2 core loads you get this:









And it'll drop to 5.4GHz for up to 6-core load:









and eventually 5.3GHz for all core load


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> Not sure how it works on your mobo but with Asus this is how it goes. You set clocks by core usage.
> View attachment 2520642
> 
> 
> You can further finetune it by limiting which cores hit 5.5GHz. It highlights your two best cores as you can see. So set them to 55 and all the others to max 54 here:
> View attachment 2520643
> 
> 
> So in 1 or 2 core loads you get this:
> View attachment 2520646
> 
> 
> And it'll drop to 5.4GHz for up to 6-core load:
> View attachment 2520650
> 
> 
> and eventually 5.3GHz for all core load
> View attachment 2520647


Do you have voltage set to auto or do you manually set the core voltage for each multiplier value?


----------



## HyperMatrix

0451 said:


> Do you have voltage set to auto or do you manually set the core voltage for each multiplier value?


You can set a curve if you want. I'm just running very high manual voltage that covers them all. Haha 1.52v LL5.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Not booting 3866 whatever I do...
> 3733 works.


later will share a profile with u. unless asus comes out with new bios fix. 


0451 said:


> Do you have voltage set to auto or do you manually set the core voltage for each multiplier value?


u set in v/f

but forget it bro. the flaw for this cannot run high cache.


----------



## freddy85

Any tips how to get command rate 1t to work? I'm able to overclock my g. skill 3200 cl 14 kit to 3600MHz 14-14-34 280 2t at gear 1 easily at 1,475v, not tried higher voltage for extreme overclock. But 1t is not possible for me even at stock 3200MHz at 1.4v.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> You can set a curve if you want. I'm just running very high manual voltage that covers them all. Haha 1.52v LL5.


Thanks for the detailed instructions. 1.52 is rather high for my taste. What is the actual vcore under load for 1.52v Asus LL5?



cstkl1 said:


> later will share a profile with u. unless asus comes out with new bios fix.
> 
> u set in v/f
> 
> but forget it bro. the flaw for this cannot run high cache.


Will the profile work on my Asrock counterfeit Apex?


----------



## HyperMatrix

0451 said:


> Thanks for the detailed instructions. 1.52 is rather high for my taste. What is the actual vcore under load for 1.52v Asus LL5?


Mark of the devil. 1.666v. Haha.


----------



## Jwick

i can do 5.4ghz all core ht on , in linpack extreme.1.4v -50% droop. it passed 10 runs(i havent ran it for 100 runs but i think it should pass), i think i can push it a bit further.but its with cache 4.6(didnt try with BCLK yet). oddly enough i can do 5.3/4.7 with the same voltages on linpack not 5.4/4.7 tho. it gets really hot tho especially running good memory setting and not jedec.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> Mark of the devil. 1.666v. Haha.


Haha that’s brave. I admire that.


----------



## Wishmaker

Do we have an up to date guide to understand a bit the Asus XIII Extreme Bios?
I am considering some tweaking and maybe even trying a 5.1 GHz all core set-up with optimised voltages.


----------



## Nikado7

What are you all getting for 5.2ghz all core 48 cache on r23? I've been scrolling back pages and never see any shots of r23.


----------



## bscool

@Nikado7 I doubt many can run 4.8 cache on 11th gen most are limited around 4.5-4.6 unless golden chip.


----------



## rhyno

sp 75, cant get 5.2 all core stable or higher than 4.4 on cache.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - SP88/89 - 51|46 - LLC2 - 1.48,
M13A - Bios 1007
Gskill F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB - 3866 [email protected]
SA/MCIO - 1.37(LLC3) / 1.38


----------



## Clausewitz

What are your opinions on ABT? ABT keeps the cores at 5.1 in most multitasking and in gaming. If you apply an allcore OC you're losing out on the 5.3 single core boost. 

My single core performance in CPU-Z with ABT on and MCE on is 705+. With an all core OC of 5.0(most common) or 5.1 it's only in the high 600s (680).

I'm not really seeing the benefit to an all core OC unless your CPU is stable above 5.1.


Pros of ABT:

100% Stable
Matches the performance of a 5.1 all core clock
Higher single core clocks

Cons of ABT
Uses higher voltage (but 1.5+ is not abnormal for this CPU)
More heat


----------



## satinghostrider

Clausewitz said:


> What are your opinions on ABT? ABT keeps the cores at 5.1 in most multitasking and in gaming. If you apply an allcore OC you're losing out on the 5.3 single core boost.
> 
> My single core performance in CPU-Z with ABT on and MCE on is 705+. With an all core OC of 5.0(most common) or 5.1 it's only in the high 600s (680).
> 
> I'm not really seeing the benefit to an all core OC unless your CPU is stable above 5.1.
> 
> 
> Pros of ABT:
> 
> 100% Stable
> Matches the performance of a 5.1 all core clock
> Higher single core clocks
> 
> Cons of ABT
> Uses higher voltage (but 1.5+ is not abnormal for this CPU)
> More heat


Tried ABT on and the temperature spikes are not worth it. If you monitor closely, the spikes are sharp and it drops. All core overclock at 5.1/4.6 is still a better bet for games that load all your cores. Even on stock where it hits 5.3Ghz but in games where it activates all cores, you are practically fixed at 4.8. Even with ABT on, you may not even hit 5.3 due to higher temps. ABT on and 5.1/4.6 all core clocks are a good 10-12 degrees difference on my custom loop setup. I'd be more comfortable sitting at lower temps and ABT on does not translate into a noticeable gain in games. ABT on is stable for sure cause it uses a high LLC with considerably worse transients. Basically the board is overvolting the CPU.


----------



## IronAge

@Wishmaker






approaches for lazy bumm overclocking.  but maybe it is helpful for getting started with RKL OC.

@XMP you lose a lot of potential, so sooner or later you will start editing memory timings and set SA/IO.


----------



## Groove2013

My SP56 11900K is gone.
Will try another one and if SP is bad again and again not possible to do 3866 MHz, then bye bye Intel.


----------



## IronAge

SB sells a SP93 @ hardwareluxx.de for a reasonable price.


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> SB sells a SP93 @ hardwareluxx.de for a reasonable price.


Tray, no warranty and who knows it's real condition...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> My SP56 11900K is gone.
> Will try another one and if SP is bad again and again not possible to do 3866 MHz, then bye bye Intel.


How do you know your ram kit can handle 3866c14 if it’s rated at 3800c14?


----------



## CallMeODZ

0451 said:


> How do you know your ram kit can handle 3866c14 if it’s rated at 3800c14?


because its covered in tinfoil which is +10 oc performance 
unless he didnt craft the ram kits without his blacksmith gloves on for +15 crafted items bonus


----------



## Clausewitz

CallMeODZ said:


> because its covered in tinfoil which is +10 oc performance
> unless he didnt craft the ram kits without his blacksmith gloves on for +15 crafted items bonus


Do you know what gauge the tinfoil needs to be


----------



## CallMeODZ

Clausewitz said:


> Do you know what gauge the tinfoil needs to be


for you id suggest the stuff they put on spacecraft to prevent them from burning upon entry


----------



## sugi0lover

Nikado7 said:


> What are you all getting for 5.2ghz all core 48 cache on r23? I've been scrolling back pages and never see any shots of r23.


11900K All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.8Ghz passed Cine at 1.460v 
(For comparision, All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz passed Cine at 1.370v)


----------



## HyperMatrix

sugi0lover said:


> 11900K All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.8Ghz passed Cine at 1.460v
> (For comparision, All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz passed Cine at 1.370v)


What's SP on your chip? That's amazingly low voltage and surprising stability even with high cpu temperatures.


----------



## Nikado7

sugi0lover said:


> 11900K All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.8Ghz passed Cine at 1.460v
> (For comparision, All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz passed Cine at 1.370v)


You're the bestest 😊


----------



## sugi0lover

HyperMatrix said:


> What's SP on your chip? That's amazingly low voltage and surprising stability even with high cpu temperatures.


It's SP89. I had other SP89 and SP93, but this one is better than those two.


----------



## sdmf74

What LLC level are you guys using to OC your 11900K / M13H? I seem to be getting immediate errors in Prime95 w/ LLC4 but can pass 30 minutes small FFT's w/ LLC5
(for now Im just trying to stabilize stock turbo multipliers 53x turbo/51x all core b4 I move on to configure a max OC).

Im not sure if SVID behaviour or another setting could have helped with the errors? Im just starting to test this cpu. 
btw what does "sync ac/dc loadline with vrm loadline" setting in bios do?


----------



## Mark Lyman

I received my 11900k 3 weeks ago. SP 81.
Overclocking the CPU was easy.
51 all core 46 cache.

it was a nightmare with my ram.
On my asrock z370-p and z390e gaming I could run the same kit same timings 4 dimm and had a 38s latency.
After testing multiple bios, following what was said in previous post for settings to hit 3866 cl14 I finally did it!!! 
(( my previous method for tuning ram on the 2 other boards wouldn’t work ))










haven’t started tuning the timings, this is a good base to start with though.

For anyone having trouble with ram on the M13H

stay away from the 1007 bios. I kept getting hangs when tuning and the cpu going in to sleep mode qcode 5d.

I'm on 0903 now.


----------



## Mark Lyman

Heres the z370 oem board from cyber power for reference.
Side note: My SP was 81, when I flashed back to 0903 it bumped up to 82.


----------



## Clausewitz

sugi0lover said:


> 11900K All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.8Ghz passed Cine at 1.460v
> (For comparision, All Core 5.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz passed Cine at 1.370v)


That is one hell of a CPU.


----------



## cstkl1

my rams cant seem to do 14-14-14 for 3866 and above
validated 4kc14-15 @1.55

so just thought we go ballin on nonsensical timing 14-15-15-14


----------



## cstkl1

@bscool1
@Groove2013

1007-M13apex-51|46- 3866c14

this is a slightly easier to pass hci on high temp






1007-M13A-3866C14HCI.CMO







drive.google.com





lower temp can revert back to 24/19 with tighter twr.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool1
> @Groove2013
> 
> 1007-M13apex-51|46- 3866c14
> 
> this is a slightly easier to pass hci on high temp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1007-M13A-3866C14HCI 1.CMO
> 
> 
> CMO File
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lower temp and revert back to 24/19 with tighter twr.


What is this file?
I don't have my SP56 CPU anymore.
Waiting for another one, hoping it's not another piece of crap, for so much money, before switching to AMD and MSI Unify X.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> What is this file?
> I don't have my SP56 CPU anymore.
> Waiting for another one.


ok since nobody wants it. forget it then.
since ppl think its still imc issue.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> ok since nobody wants it. forget it then.
> since ppl think its still imc issue.


You still haven't answered my question.
What is this file and what to do with it?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> You still haven't answered my question.
> What is this file and what to do with it?


its a profile u can load on ure apex. mainly for DR
SR dont need vtt adjustments and alot of the extra algo which is more for consistency on restarts


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> its a profile u can load on ure apex. mainly for DR
> SR dont need vtt adjustments and alot of the extra algo which is more for consistency on restarts


Thank you for all your help man.
I will try when I get my 2nd and last 11900K.

I got rid of it mainly because of too high vcore/temp for a specific frequency. Not so much because of IMC.


----------



## auraofjason

Is there a way to tell the microcode of a bios before installing it? Wondering if the new 2301 bios for xii hero is still 3c after all these months.


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> Waiting for another one, hoping it's not another piece of crap, for so much money, before switching to AMD and MSI Unify X.


good luck then, Intel = frying pan, AMD = fire.

you could get a Ryzen which throws up WHEA errors and stock instability.


----------



## CallMeODZ

IronAge said:


> good luck then, Intel = frying pan, AMD = fire.
> 
> you could get a Ryzen which throws up WHEA errors and stock instability.


yup. interesting to see how their new line of chips play
i think the focus will shift to stability


----------



## cstkl1

the profile i gave u guys

this not hard

mcio 1.38 set , sa 1.42 (llc3)


----------



## cstkl1

CallMeODZ said:


> yup. interesting to see how their new line of chips play
> i think the focus will shift to stability


nah. they will just keep upping cache. this will give them better fps vmin and stop the sudden drops. 

its a architecture flaw. 
just like how we saw on skylake flaw when scaled to 10 core. 
they need to redesign. 

intel hoping ddr5 to save them. ddr4 saved them on skylake.


----------



## yahfz

cstkl1 said:


> the profile i gave u guys
> 
> this not hard
> 
> mcio 1.38 set , sa 1.42 (llc3)


Any profiles for the m13h?


----------



## cstkl1

yahfz said:


> Any profiles for the m13h?


4dimm boards were easier to do 3866 last time i tested . dont have m13e anymore.


----------



## cstkl1

testing
[email protected] 51|46 @ bclk 98.4
2x16gb [email protected]
mcio 1.38 , sa 1.47 llc3









just matter of time asus does 4000 easy.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> testing
> [email protected] 51|46 @ bclk 98.4
> 2x16gb [email protected]
> mcio 1.38 , sa 1.47 llc3
> View attachment 2521087
> 
> 
> just matter of time asus does 4000 easy.


Can you run some game benchmarks? Do you have 3080Ti or 3090?


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> Can you run some game benchmarks? Do you have 3080Ti or 3090?


3080 atm.. 3090 rmaed.

got a 10900k/3090 strix on another rig..

benchmark of what dude? ghostrunner 2 hrs run dx12 rt on?
warzone /coldwar menu 24/7 lol..

see which crashes ?

btw u should talk to @satinghostrider 
he upgraded from 9900ks
and a coldwar player


----------



## satinghostrider

ViTosS said:


> Can you run some game benchmarks? Do you have 3080Ti or 3090?


If you wanna know about benchmarks I have Coldwar based on 11900K + 3090 + 4800CL19 rams. Very noticeable uplift from 9900ks even on stock settings and most importantly no dumb scan and repair crashes which I kept getting on my 9900ks randomly. 11900k zero crashes CPU related till today.


----------



## Sun-tzu

Hello guys i am new too the game.

I just bought some hardware
G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4400C17D-32GTRS
980 pro ssd 1tb
Msi 3080 ti suprime
Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 360
10900k ( maybe i will change it into 11900k)
Msi z590 unify-x (2dimss)

Just have my doubts abbout my motherboard..is the z590 xiii apex beter for overclocking results ?

I game on 1440p

Thankyou for some reactions


----------



## cstkl1

Sun-tzu said:


> Hello guys i am new too the game.
> 
> I just bought some hardware
> G.Skill Trident Z Royal F4-4400C17D-32GTRS
> 980 pro ssd 1tb
> Msi 3080 ti suprime
> Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 360
> 10900k ( maybe i will change it into 11900k)
> Msi z590 unify-x (2dimss)
> 
> Just have my doubts abbout my motherboard..is the z590 xiii apex beter for overclocking results ?
> 
> I game on 1440p
> 
> Thankyou for some reactions


wrong thread 

rkl and cml different in ram oc, cpu oc 

afaik z590 doesnt have any advantage over z490 on 2 dimm, only asus has made improvement for 4dimm oc on z590 for cml


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> 3080 atm.. 3090 rmaed.
> 
> got a 10900k/3090 strix on another rig..
> 
> benchmark of what dude? ghostrunner 2 hrs run dx12 rt on?
> warzone /coldwar menu 24/7 lol..
> 
> see which crashes ?
> 
> btw u should talk to @satinghostrider
> he upgraded from 9900ks
> and a coldwar player


It was just a matter of voltage, I fixed increasing from 1.17v to 1.26v, tested many times


----------



## ViTosS

Also Warzone never gave me error, only Cold War and Metro Exodus.


----------



## Sun-tzu

cstkl1 said:


> wrong thread
> 
> rkl and cml different in ram oc, cpu oc
> 
> afaik z590 doesnt have any advantage over z490 on 2 dimm, only asus has made improvement for 4dimm oc on z590 for cml


So that said buying a z490 is better deal ?


----------



## cstkl1

Sun-tzu said:


> So that said buying a z490 is better deal ?


unless u go 4dimm for cml.. on asus. theres some improvement for bdie for z590

other than that z490 for cml.


----------



## YoungChris

@sugi0lover bro you're crazy


----------



## sugi0lover

Gear1 4000Mhz-CL13 OC with 11900K.
Voltages will be optimized.
4000Mhz-13-13-13 seems very hard atm.


Memory OC : 4000Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.670v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.53v : Mem OC IO 1.35v


----------



## YoungChris

The fact you can even run stable with 1.67vdimm amazes me, even close to that vdimm I get "daily stability regression" with all my sets of DDR4 that have Samsung 8GBit B-Die...


sugi0lover said:


> Voltages will be optimized.
> 
> Memory OC : 4000Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.670v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.53v : Mem OC IO 1.35v


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> The fact you can even run stable with 1.67vdimm amazes me, even close to that vdimm I get "daily stability regression" with all my sets of DDR4 that have Samsung 8GBit B-Die...


5c on load with 1.67v bro.. lol... his rams... dats exotic cooling..


----------



## cstkl1

cstkl1 said:


> 5c on load with 1.67v bro.. lol... his rams... dats exotic cooling..


my dr cant do more than 3933..

only hope is my SR which atm canot fit on the dimm slot because of the damn bitspower waterblock .. need to dremel the bracket which i am planning to do after i transfer to a new case since coincidentally one pump died which i am barely at decent flowrate atm

but @0451 DR asrock already 3960CL14

so its time dude everybody kick it up a notch from these plebeians 3866...


----------



## YoungChris

cstkl1 said:


> 5c on load with 1.67v bro.. lol... his rams... dats exotic cooling..


Where do you see 5°C load? I'm seeing 33°C in the thumbnail


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> Where do you see 5°C load? I'm seeing 33°C in the thumbnail


i mean 5c from his idle bro.. thats all the 1.67v did...


----------



## centvalny

So far no 6133 djr sticks. All maxed @ 5866, cpu imc with water is decent SP50


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> i mean 5c from his idle bro.. thats all the 1.67v did...


Watercooling RAM is always the same for me. Regardless of the voltage, 5C higher than water temp under the max load.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Watercooling RAM is always the same for me. Regardless of the voltage, 5C higher than water temp under the max load.


koolance waterblock?


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> koolance waterblock?


EK-RAM Monarch X4, even though I use only 2 rams.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> EK-RAM Monarch X4, even though I use only 2 rams.


impressive. i didnt realize it was that effective ek.


----------



## bscool

@cstkl1 I will check the cmo later. I have a 11900k coming that ran 3866 for @0451 so if it cant do 3866 for me then I have no ideas. It will be interesting if it does 3866 that tells me my other 2 couldnt. If it doesnt do 3866 then my MB is crap or I have no ideas as like I said before channel b can run 4000 on z590 Apex and Hero but channel a would stop at 3733.

Edit I know there is a variance in IMC as the SP 55 I had could boot [email protected] 1.35 sa and the SP85 needs 1.45 to boot 3733 and 1.5sa to be stable at 3733. That is much higher than most here need to be stable at 3733c14. I am going to try your cmo now.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @cstkl1 I will check the cmo later. I have a 11900k coming that ran 3866 for @0451 so if it cant do 3866 for me then I have no ideas. It will be interesting if it does 3866 that tells me my other 2 couldnt. If it doesnt do 3866 then my MB is crap or I have no ideas as like I said before channel b can run 4000 on z590 Apex and Hero but channel a would stop at 3733.
> 
> Edit I know there is a variance in IMC as the SP 55 I had could boot [email protected] 1.35 sa and the SP85 needs 1.45 to boot 3733 and 1.5sa to be stable at 3733. That is much higher than most here need to be stable at 3733c14. I am going to try your cmo now.


huh. i never seen 3733 needing more that 1.25sa/mcio

suspect its ure ram


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> impressive. i didnt realize it was that effective ek.


Nothing special ^^


----------



## bscool

@cstkl1 I can do 4000c14 in chan b? 

I can switch the stick to channel a and it limits to 3733 in Apex and Hero. With both 11900ks.

Also tried your cmo and still no boot at 3866, just boot loops. But that screen shot @ 4000 is with just chan b enabled and io and sa increased.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @cstkl1 I can do 4000c14 in chan b?
> View attachment 2521166
> 
> 
> I can switch the stick to channel a and it limits to 3733 in Apex and Hero. With both 11900ks.


dunno dude. i could 3866 on any cpu so far.

so guessing u still cant?


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> dunno dude. i could 3866 on any cpu so far.
> 
> so guessing u still cant?


Nope just boot loops with your cmo.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Nope just boot loops with your cmo.


can you adjust the skews. its just general skews. ppl are meant to adjust them


----------



## satinghostrider

cstkl1 said:


> impressive. i didnt realize it was that effective ek.


Remember I was telling you my sticks ran cool also under this setup? 😊


----------



## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> Nothing special ^^
> View attachment 2521164












That makes 2 of us. Gear 1 Vs Gear 2. 😂


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> Nope just boot loops with your cmo.


How many ram kits have you tried 3866 on?


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> How many ram kits have you tried 3866 on?


A dozen or more. From SR A1(A0?) and A2 to DR.


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> can you adjust the skews. its just general skews. ppl are meant to adjust them


I will wait and see if @0451 CPU doesn't do 3866 I will mess with skews. I know I messed with them a little in the past and it didn't help.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> A dozen or more. From SR A1 and A2 to DR.


How many CPUs have you tried?


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> How many CPUs have you tried?


2 11900k SP55 and SP 85.


----------



## bscool

Last resort which I will probably get anyway just to play with it the 4000c14 kit from Gskill. I have had most the top bins from the last year from them in DR. Last ones I got where 4000c16-16-16-, 360014, 4266c17, 4400c17 all 2x16 b die.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> Last resort which I will probably get anyway just to play with it the 4000c14 kit from Gskill. I have had most the top bins from the last year from them in DR. Last ones I got where 4000c16-16-16-, 360014, 4266c17, 4400c17 all 2x16 b die.


I'm on my 2nd kit (RMAd the 1st) of 4000c14 and it can do up to 3970 14-15-15 but throws about 3-4 errors up to 200% in memtest. I'm working on stabilizing it, but will probably RMA a 2nd time.


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> I'm on my 2nd kit (RMAd the 1st) of 4000c14 and it can do up to 3970 14-15-15 but throws about 3-4 errors up to 200% in memtest. I'm working on stabilizing it, but will probably RMA a 2nd time.


Hmm so how do you know it is not the IMC? Have you tested in gear 2 at the same timings and clocks? That would remove IMC as the limit.


----------



## Astral85

What does VCCSA load line calibration do? Is this Z590 only?


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> What does VCCSA load line calibration do? Is this Z590 only?


rkl only


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I am working on stabilizing 3960 14-15-15 @ 5.325 all core.











Edit: Aida


----------



## Mark Lyman

So after getting 3866 CL14 stable yesterday, I went ahead and tightened my timings. I had 52ns latency prior.
Finally got that bad boy down to 42ns and dropped my 52 all core to 51 for now to shave a few degrees.




























Looking at the voltages I am pumping in to my IMC with the 4 x 8 set up, I decided to order a 2 x 16 4800 kit. Figured less stress on the IMC and possibly more head room to go higher than 3866 or see how high I can push the 4800.

Haven’t seen anyone post anything about this kit yet and it was a good price for around $280.










Should be here no later than Friday. I’ll post results when they come in.


----------



## Lownage

Mark Lyman said:


> Looking at the voltages I am pumping in to my IMC with the 4 x 8 set up, I decided to order a 2 x 16 4800 kit. Figured less stress on the IMC and possibly more head room to go higher than 3866 or see how high I can push the 4800.
> 
> Haven’t seen anyone post anything about this kit yet and it was a good price for around $280.
> 
> View attachment 2521192
> 
> 
> Should be here no later than Friday. I’ll post results when they come in.


Will be slower in pretty much everything.
DR bdie 3866c14 gear1 is the way to go 

Tried the 5066c20 kit and ended up returning it...


----------



## Mark Lyman

Lownage said:


> Will be slower in pretty much everything.
> DR bdie 3866c14 gear1 is the way to go
> 
> Tried the 5066c20 kit and ended up returning it...


I accept the challenge. 😎

That current kit I’m running is 2 separate 2 x 8 dual channel kits which I believe is typically harder to get stable. The first set are dated March of 2020 the second set April of 2020.

4133C19D-16GTZR

The only other upgrade I saw was that 4800 kit OR I was looking at a dual / quad channel kit @ 4 x 8 4266 being an actual 4x kit. 4 x 8 133mhz didn’t really feel like an upgrade though over the current 2 x 8, 2 x 8 set up.

Or 2 dual kits of the
*F4-5333C22D-16GTRS*

Not going to lie, these 2 look pretty spicy also.
DDR4-4000MHz CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 2 x 16
DDR4-4266MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.50V 2 x 16

I found this chart, someone else may find it useful.

DescriptionTrue Latency (ns)Clock Cycle Time (ns)4266 MHz CL 146.580.474133 MHz CL 146.720.484200 MHz CL 146.720.484000 MHz CL 1470.54266 MHz CL 157.050.474133 MHz CL 157.20.484200 MHz CL 157.20.483866 MHz CL 147.280.524000 MHz CL 157.50.54266 MHz CL 167.520.473733 MHz CL 147.560.544133 MHz CL 167.680.484200 MHz CL 167.680.483866 MHz CL 157.80.523600 MHz CL 147.840.564266 MHz CL 177.990.474000 MHz CL 1680.53733 MHz CL 158.10.543466 MHz CL 148.120.584200 MHz CL 178.160.484133 MHz CL 178.160.483866 MHz CL 168.320.523600 MHz CL 158.40.564266 MHz CL 188.460.474000 MHz CL 178.50.54133 MHz CL 188.640.484200 MHz CL 188.640.483733 MHz CL 168.640.543466 MHz CL 158.70.583200 MHz CL 148.820.633866 MHz CL 178.840.524266 MHz CL 198.930.473600 MHz CL 168.960.564000 MHz CL 1890.54133 MHz CL 199.120.484200 MHz CL 199.120.483733 MHz CL 179.180.543466 MHz CL 169.280.583866 MHz CL 189.360.523000 MHz CL 149.380.673200 MHz CL 159.450.634000 MHz CL 199.50.53600 MHz CL 179.520.563733 MHz CL 189.720.543466 MHz CL 179.860.583866 MHz CL 199.880.523000 MHz CL 1510.050.673200 MHz CL 1610.080.633600 MHz CL 1810.080.563733 MHz CL 1910.260.543466 MHz CL 1810.440.582666 MHz CL 1410.50.753600 MHz CL 1910.640.563200 MHz CL 1710.710.633000 MHz CL 1610.720.673466 MHz CL 1911.020.582666 MHz CL 1511.250.753200 MHz CL 1811.340.633000 MHz CL 1711.390.672400 MHz CL 1411.620.833200 MHz CL 1911.970.632666 MHz CL 16120.753000 MHz CL 1812.060.672400 MHz CL 1512.450.833000 MHz CL 1912.730.672666 MHz CL 1712.750.752133 MHz CL 1413.160.942400 MHz CL 1613.280.832666 MHz CL 1813.50.752133 MHz CL 1514.10.942400 MHz CL 1714.110.832666 MHz CL 1914.250.752400 MHz CL 1814.940.832133 MHz CL 1615.040.942400 MHz CL 1915.770.832133 MHz CL 1715.980.942133 MHz CL 1816.920.942133 MHz CL 1917.860.94


----------



## Lownage

That latency table is without considering gear1 vs gear2 
+ higher trefi of non bdie kits


----------



## WebsterRKL

Hey, I just wanna say you gents are amazing. Thank you so much for all the wonderful info and stats.

It seems 3866/14 is very popular, I tried it with a Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit, wasn't too difficult with that kit, but I have to be honest, I really love 4800 16 16 37 much more. Maybe I can feel the increased responsiveness with my work computer with the higher speeds vs lower latencies? Idk for why for certain.

Also tuned the 4800/17 b-die kit to 5066Mhz 17 17 37, and that's as far as it would go, and my CPU OC had to be decreased to 5.1Ghz. From there, I got the Hynix 5333Mhz kit and really love 5600Mhz CL20 and 5866Mhz CL22.

Are you guys into the higher Mhz parts at all? Would love to know how they FEEL to you vs 3866/14.


----------



## centvalny

Nice rams webster. Can you boot up the hynix @ 6133?


----------



## WebsterRKL

centvalny said:


> Nice rams webster. Can you boot up the hynix @ 6133?


Hah, found a video on the 6133Mhz oc, the guy is training the memory in stages with super-high voltage. My kit might be able to do it, but wow, not sure I want to stress the hardware so much. : )






But anyone considering the F4-5333C22D-16GTES kit these values below are an easy XMP2 plug and play 3minute overclock with the M13A.

5333Mhz CL20 1.600v - 5.3GHz 11600K OC (only 5.1GHz 11600K with the 4800/17 b-die kit)
5600Mhz CL20 1.625v - 1.650v
5866Mhz CL22 1.750v

Will add CPU OCs this week to the 5600Mhz and 5866Mhz DDR4 settings.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

centvalny said:


> Nice rams webster. Can you boot up the hynix @ 6133?


DJR air-cooled dual channel 6133 was not very hard...








Intel Core i9 11900K @ 4798.85 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[k5w8gh] Validated Dump by OLDFATSHEEP (2021-06-02 04:16:19) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX - RAM: 16384 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Build a new rig for my dad. So grabbed that Unify-X for a try.









Seems the unify-x was a little behind M13A, but should be OK for his daily use.


----------



## centvalny

WebsterRKL said:


> Hah, found a video on the 6133Mhz oc, the guy is training the memory in stages with super-high voltage. My kit might be able to do it, but wow, not sure I want to stress the hardware so much. : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2521240
> 
> View attachment 2521241


That is Bing from ROG. It seems not all hynix djr high bin can go 6133 air mostly top [email protected] 5866. Same with cpu.


----------



## centvalny

Awesome run Oldfatsheep


----------



## sugi0lover

voltage optimization for Gear 1 4000Mhz CL14 setting with 11900K.
1.52v for ram is good enough for 4000 14 14 14.
The last voltage I will optimize is SA since it's still high.


Memory OC : 4000Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.520v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.35v


----------



## ViTosS

sugi0lover said:


> voltage optimization for Gear 1 4000Mhz CL14 setting with 11900K.
> 1.52v for ram is good enough for 4000 14 14 14.
> The last voltage I will optimize is SA since it's still high.
> 
> 
> Memory OC : 4000Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.520v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.35v
> 
> View attachment 2521251


At that CPU OC and RAM latency and Gear 1 I think no Ryzen can win any benchmark


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> Hey, I just wanna say you gents are amazing. Thank you so much for all the wonderful info and stats.
> 
> It seems 3866/14 is very popular, I tried it with a Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit, wasn't too difficult with that kit, but I have to be honest, I really love 4800 16 16 37 much more. Maybe I can feel the increased responsiveness with my work computer with the higher speeds vs lower latencies? Idk for why for certain.
> 
> Also tuned the 4800/17 b-die kit to 5066Mhz 17 17 37, and that's as far as it would go, and my CPU OC had to be decreased to 5.1Ghz. From there, I got the Hynix 5333Mhz kit and really love 5600Mhz CL20 and 5866Mhz CL22.
> 
> Are you guys into the higher Mhz parts at all? Would love to know how they FEEL to you vs 3866/14.
> 
> View attachment 2521221
> 
> View attachment 2521222
> 
> View attachment 2521223


Thanks for sharing your data!
For your 5066 CL17, I can see only the primary timing, but I can say it can be improved based on your AIDA bench.
Check my 5066 CL17 timings and AIDA bench!









And for gaming, gear 2 5000 CL16 with all tightened setup lost to gear 3866 CL13.
CL20 CL22 with very high 5600Mhz or higher is worse than 5000 CL16 for gaming.
So many people focus on gear 1.


----------



## Nizzen

ViTosS said:


> At that CPU OC and RAM latency and Gear 1 I think no Ryzen can win any benchmark


He better fire up Tombraider and show us 315fps+


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> He better fire up Tombraider and show us 315fps+


That's really high fps. Is it under normal cooling? Can you guide me to where I can see the result?
I don't think 11900K can beat it ^^

I asked my friend to test Shadow Tombraider with his 5900X (all core 4.7Ghz) + 3800 CL14 + 3090 Supreme.
Not even close to 315 fps


----------



## IronAge

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Build a new rig for my dad. So grabbed that Unify-X for a try.


can't get this in EU, else i would give the Unify-X a try too.


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing your data!
> For your 5066 CL17, I can see only the primary timing, but I can say it can be improved based on your AIDA bench.
> Check my 5066 CL17 timings and AIDA bench!
> View attachment 2521281
> 
> 
> And for gaming, gear 2 5000 CL16 with all tightened setup lost to gear 3866 CL13.
> CL20 CL22 with very high 5600Mhz or higher is worse than 5000 CL16 for gaming.
> So many people focus on gear 1.


You gentlemen are UNBELIEVABLY AMAZING! How do you do it? 

I just have a simple home office computer running on air - I'm just a simpleton! 

It's just a work build running MS Office, and 5600Mhz CL20 feels like a brilliant sweet spot and much better than 5066/17 or 3866/14.

My video card cannot game. lol 🤣


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> That's really high fps. Is it under normal cooling? Can you guide me to where I can see the result?
> I don't think 11900K can beat it ^^
> 
> I asked my friend to test Shadow Tombraider with his 5900X (all core 4.7Ghz) + 3800 CL14 + 3090 Supreme.
> Not even close to 315 fps
> View attachment 2521325





https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2021_06/image.png.581bea6e55635f3d7a267fbbfe26b672.png




https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2021_06/image.png.d3e9467eb11ef3dc4b13df0e01c2a66e.png


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2021_06/image.png.581bea6e55635f3d7a267fbbfe26b672.png
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2021_06/image.png.d3e9467eb11ef3dc4b13df0e01c2a66e.png


Thanks a lot for the link~ very impressive!
Do you know how much overclocked 5950X is? That's really high CPU Game fps.
And his windows build is 21996, which is Windows 11 not 10. I wonder if Windows 11 makes any difference.


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks a lot for the link~ very impressive!
> Do you know how much overclocked 5950X is? That's really high CPU Game fps.
> And his windows build is 21996, which is Windows 11 not 10. I wonder if Windows 11 makes any difference.


It's the cache size that makes a difference.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> It's the cache size that makes a difference.


yes. in high ram, high caching 

5950x is a jigsaw.. example warzone...


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks a lot for the link~ very impressive!
> Do you know how much overclocked 5950X is? That's really high CPU Game fps.
> And his windows build is 21996, which is Windows 11 not 10. I wonder if Windows 11 makes any difference.


Win 11 helps about 10 fps


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> yes. in high ram, high caching
> 
> 5950x is a jigsaw.. example warzone...


Yep! High max fps and low min fps 

That's why AMD is coming with 3d stacked cache. Cache is king (if you have enough) 😅


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

IronAge said:


> can't get this in EU, else i would give the Unify-X a try too.


That's a pitty...but anyway M13A should still be the best right now


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Yep! High max fps and low min fps
> 
> That's why AMD is coming with 3d stacked cache. Cache is king (if you have enough) 😅


tats what my ex PM used to say cash is king

now in corruption charges


----------



## napata

Nizzen said:


> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2021_06/image.png.581bea6e55635f3d7a267fbbfe26b672.png
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_2021_06/image.png.d3e9467eb11ef3dc4b13df0e01c2a66e.png


Low settings are unfavorable for RL or any Intel CPU anyway in comparison to Zen 3. Higher settings exceed the cache more often so the CPU needs to hit the RAM more leading to relative worse results for Zen 3 compared to Intel CPUs.

You can see this effect here: PCBuilding


----------



## Nizzen

napata said:


> Low settings are unfavorable for RL or any Intel CPU anyway in comparison to Zen 3. Higher settings exceed the cache more often so the CPU needs to hit the RAM more leading to relative worse results for Zen 3 compared to Intel CPUs.
> 
> You can see this effect here: PCBuilding


Looks like the 5950x was on bad memorysettings. I'm getting better result with tweaked memory and stock pbo 5950x....

Must be noobs on the blog... 😆

Screenshot of the actual benchmark, or it didn't happen


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Looks like the 5950x was on bad memorysettings. I'm getting better result with tweaked memory and stock pbo 5950x....
> 
> Must be noobs on the blog... 😆
> 
> Screenshot of the actual benchmark, or it didn't happen


bet u bro he ran 10900k ht off.


----------



## napata

Nizzen said:


> Looks like the 5950x was on bad memorysettings. I'm getting better result with tweaked memory and stock pbo 5950x....
> 
> Must be noobs on the blog... 😆
> 
> Screenshot of the actual benchmark, or it didn't happen


The blog itself or the absolute results aren't really relevant. For all we know he ran the demo which has completely different results. It shows the impact of settings on cache and how Intel gains more at higher settings relative to AMD.

His timings/RAM are worse than yours but he controlled the tRFC to 140ns. His RAM isn't perfect on either side really. He lists the timings on the first page if you want to know. But again not relevant to what I was trying to say.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's a pitty...but anyway M13A should still be the best right now


What’s the best stable 2x16 gear 1 RAM overclock on M13A? My ASRock needs a goal.


----------



## Nizzen

napata said:


> The blog itself or the absolute results aren't really relevant. For all we know he ran the demo which has completely different results. It shows the impact of settings on cache and how Intel gains more at higher settings relative to AMD.
> 
> His timings/RAM are worse than yours but he controlled the tRFC to 140ns. His RAM isn't perfect on either side really. He lists the timings on the first page if you want to know. But again not relevant to what I was trying to say.


So if I benchmark Tombraider with 1080p max settings, 11900k should beat 5950x?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> So if I benchmark Tombraider with 1080p max settings, 11900k should beat 5950x?


benchmark

warzone menu 24/7
vermintide 2 menu 24/7
ghostrunner dx12 rt on level climb 5 runs


----------



## bscool

@0451 Thanks, the CPU booted up 3866c14 with no tweaks to bios. 2 other 11900ks would not no matter tweaks to ODT or whatever I tied. Ill get back to you with SP. Forgot to look, literally just threw it in


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> @0451 Thanks, the CPU booted up 3866c14 with no tweaks to bios. 2 other 11900ks would not no matter tweaks to ODT or whatever I tied. Ill get back to you with SP. Forgot to look, literally just threw it in


That arrived fast! Glad you are happy with it. How is voltage, watts, and temperature at 5.2, better than your other 2 chips? I suspect better core overclocking correlates to a better IMC, since they are on the same slab of silicon. I haven’t played with enough CPUs to confirm.


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> That arrived fast! Glad you are happy with it. How is voltage, watts, and temperature at 5.2, better than your other 2 chips?


I haven't really compared temps and voltages yet, I was trying to see if it could boot 4000c14. I am seeing a weird bug I haven't seen before. The SP will go from 50 to 85 between boots. I think I will try reflashing the bios.


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> I haven't really compared temps and voltages yet, I was trying to see if it could boot 4000c14. I am seeing a weird bug I haven't seen before. The SP will go from 50 to 85 between boots. I think I will try reflashing the bios.


cstkl1 suggested bios option helped me a lot for booting and stabilizing 4000c13. 

senseamp offset training disable
senseamp offset retraining disable
read timing centering 1d enable
roundtrip latency enable
turnaround timing training disable


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> cstkl1 suggested bios option helped me a lot for booting and stabilizing 4000c13.
> 
> senseamp offset training disable
> senseamp offset retraining disable
> read timing centering 1d enable
> roundtrip latency enable
> turnaround timing training disable


yeah this essential bro

getting fedup with dr bdie on restart stability

got one skew restart perfect but fail karhu 4000%

another restart inconsistent but passed karhu 10000%

hci, tm5 cant seem to find the issue. only karhu. 

using a new timing set. quite similar to your sr. found it best hci turnaround 67.0x for 3866 vs the others 66.6x-66.7x

my issue now is restart stability for dr. gonnna just go back to sr wc when all parts arrived for new case etc.


----------



## Bakuya

Hello, get 11900k with 50sp. Batch v124 china.

So i have powerfull custom liquid cooling.

When i first power on i have 175 points cooling.

Then it dropped down to 149 and my cpu begin overheating at cinebench and other stress tests.

Dont know why it happen after 1hour of use.

I tried any bios, clearing cmos and etc.
Pump running at max speed.

Have 420 45mm rad and 360 45mm rad and this all for cpu without videocard.

Help me find the reason this happen (((


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> Hello, get 11900k with 50sp. Batch v124 china.
> 
> So i have powerfull custom liquid cooling.
> 
> When i first power on i have 175 points cooling.
> 
> Then it dropped down to 149 and my cpu begin overheating at cinebench and other stress tests.
> 
> Dont know why it happen after 1hour of use.
> 
> I tried any bios, clearing cmos and etc.
> Pump running at max speed.
> 
> Have 420 45mm rad and 360 45mm rad and this all for cpu without videocard.
> 
> Help me find the reason this happen (((


your water temp high


----------



## Nizzen

Bakuya said:


> Hello, get 11900k with 50sp. Batch v124 china.
> 
> So i have powerfull custom liquid cooling.
> 
> When i first power on i have 175 points cooling.
> 
> Then it dropped down to 149 and my cpu begin overheating at cinebench and other stress tests.
> 
> Dont know why it happen after 1hour of use.
> 
> I tried any bios, clearing cmos and etc.
> Pump running at max speed.
> 
> Have 420 45mm rad and 360 45mm rad and this all for cpu without videocard.
> 
> Help me find the reason this happen (((


Check waterflow?


----------



## Bakuya

Nizzen said:


> Check waterflow?


Thank you, since i didnt installed wf meter , - how i can check it?


----------



## Bakuya

So i shake it and found its hat to much air inside radiator.

When i shake it its increased from 149 to 157pt.


----------



## Arni90

Bakuya said:


> So i shake it and found its hat to much air inside radiator.
> 
> When i shake it its increased from 149 to 157pt.


Sounds like your loop isn't properly bled out, probably caused by an underpowered pump.
What pump do you have, and is it set to the maximum speed?

More radiators give very diminishing returns, if your water temperature is 5C above room temperature, you're not going to see a significant gain by doubling the area.


----------



## Bakuya

Arni90 said:


> Sounds like your loop isn't properly bled out, probably caused by an underpowered pump.
> What pump do you have, and is it set to the maximum speed?
> 
> More radiators give very diminishing returns, if your water temperature is 5C above room temperature, you're not going to see a significant gain by doubling the area.
> [/QUOTE





Arni90 said:


> Sounds like your loop isn't properly bled out, probably caused by an underpowered pump.
> What pump do you have, and is it set to the maximum speed?
> 
> More radiators give very diminishing returns, if your water temperature is 5C above room temperature, you're not going to see a significant gain by doubling the area.


EK D5 pwm


Arni90 said:


> Sounds like your loop isn't properly bled out, probably caused by an underpowered pump.
> What pump do you have, and is it set to the maximum speed?
> 
> More radiators give very diminishing returns, if your water temperature is 5C above room temperature, you're not going to see a significant gain by doubling the area.


EK D5 PWM T 4600 rpm


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

0451 said:


> What’s the best stable 2x16 gear 1 RAM overclock on M13A? My ASRock needs a goal.


The usual goal would be 3866 [email protected]~1.55v. If the IMC is great you could try 4000 14-15


----------



## Clausewitz

Bakuya said:


> EK D5 pwm
> 
> EK D5 PWM T 4600 rpm


Some of those low bin SP50 CPUs pull a TON of power. What settings did you have? Are you running defaults with ABT on or ?


----------



## D-EJ915

Bakuya said:


> EK D5 pwm
> 
> EK D5 PWM T 4600 rpm


Unplug pump pwm connector to run it full speed to clear out any air pockets, I've read a few people say their pump doesn't run full speed off PWM even when set to 100%


----------



## cstkl1

@Lownage

finally found a fix testing
skews untouched
vtt untouched
mrc fast boot working


----------



## GTI-R

[QUOTE = "safedisk、投稿：28818522、メンバー：341135"]
おい
1. ln2モードを使用する場合、2.0vを超える電圧を使用できます。
LN2モードのCPU温度は非常に高いため、2つの電圧を設定する必要があります。（PLL終端電圧とCPUスタンバイ電圧1.05vを設定する必要があります）
2. bclk 100で起動する場合、turbovはbclkクロックをあまり増やすことができないため、BIOSで高いbclkダイレクトブートが必要です。
[/見積もり]
LLN2もーどが起動しませんよぉ


----------



## Lownage

Big thanks to @cstkl1 
Im finally karhu stable:


----------



## Bakuya

D-EJ915 said:


> Unplug pump pwm connector to run it full speed to clear out any air pockets, I've read a few people say their pump doesn't run full speed off PWM even when set to 100%


I do not have any air pockets, iven if i shake the case, not even single.
Reseat the waterblock, and check all connection.

Now i think i just have wery bad sample of cpu.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> I do not have any air pockets, iven if i shake the case, not even single.
> Reseat the waterblock, and check all connection.
> 
> Now i think i just have wery bad sample of cpu.


your temps are having more than 10c delta and is slow in reducing the temp back to ambient

nothing to do with 11900k
11900k on load for me only increases my water temp by 2-3c
my gpu however diff story

so since ures after a intense gaming session has increased your water temp by a significant amount and since your cpu is on the same loop affected the ai cooler score.

fix is check
1. flowrate
2. fan config in case ( other than dissipating heat.. frequently a mistake ppl do is pushing one rad into a case while the other pushing out etc)
3. get a temp probe on your water. config you rad fans to this temp probe. common mistake ppl make in wc is setting their rad fan to cpu temps.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> your temps are having more than 10c delta and is slow in reducing the temp back to ambient
> 
> nothing to do with 11900k
> 11900k on load for me only increases my water temp by 2-3c
> my gpu however diff story
> 
> so since ures after a intense gaming session has increased your water temp by a significant amount and since your cpu is on the same loop affected the ai cooler score.
> 
> fix is check
> 1. flowrate
> 2. fan config in case ( other than dissipating heat.. frequently a mistake ppl do is pushing one rad into a case while the other pushing out etc)
> 3. get a temp probe on your water. config you rad fans to this temp probe. common mistake ppl make in wc is setting their rad fan to cpu temps.


Thank you for answer, i didnt install flow meter((( how i csn check flow rates?

Water temp is 31C degrees under load, and almost no changes


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> Thank you for answer, i didnt install flow meter((( how i csn check flow rates?
> 
> Water temp is 31C degrees under load, and almost no changes





Bakuya said:


> Thank you for answer, i didnt install flow meter((( how i csn check flow rates?
> 
> Water temp is 31C degrees under load, and almost no changes


if its 31c system (gpu+cpu) load water. ure scored wouldnt have drop to 149


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> if its 31c system (gpu+cpu) load water. ure scored wouldnt have drop to 149


Ohh)) its for CPU - no GPU i use integrated graphics.

I even see 132pt

So two alphacool cooper rads 420 45mm and 360 45mm

Front radiator 360 and top 420.

Coolers works as intended, front intake and top outtake.

And it only for CPU and thats why i am worried about.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> Ohh)) its for CPU - no GPU i use integrated graphics.
> 
> I even see 132pt
> 
> So two alphacool cooper rads 420 45mm and 360 45mm
> 
> Front radiator 360 and top 420.
> 
> Coolers works as intended, front intake and top outtake.
> 
> And it only for CPU and thats why i am worried about.


no idea. igpu. something alien to me. nvr touch those stuff.

then it sounds like cpu block not transfering the heat.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> no idea. igpu. something alien to me. nvr touch those stuff.
> 
> then it sounds like cpu block not transfering the heat.


I think just block not transfering, also i think it can be IHS do not contact with die properly.

I now research how to test if my wb is transfer heat or no.

I refill my loop 2 times and pump suck water wery good. So problem can be in waterblock, i clean it before install - its ek supremacy evo elite full nickel.


----------



## Clausewitz

Bakuya said:


> I think just block not transfering, also i think it can be IHS do not contact with die properly.
> 
> I now research how to test if my wb is transfer heat or no.
> 
> I refill my loop 2 times and pump suck water wery good. So problem can be in waterblock, i clean it before install - its ek supremacy evo elite full nickel.


Can you provide pictures of your configuration?


----------



## Bakuya

Clausewitz said:


> Can you provide pictures of your configuration?
































I disasemble whole setup, clean waterblock and etc, nothing changed. 142 points cooling in bios(((


----------



## Bakuya

Bakuya said:


> View attachment 2521576
> View attachment 2521577
> View attachment 2521578
> View attachment 2521579
> 
> I disasemble whole setup, clean waterblock and etc, nothing changed. 142 points cooling in bios(((


Dont know what happaned but now i have 70 C degrees.
And CPU works as intended.


----------



## Clausewitz

Bakuya said:


> Dont know what happaned but now i have 70 C degrees.
> And CPU works as intended.


 Maybe it wasn't bled properly as some thought.


----------



## cstkl1

[


Bakuya said:


> Dont know what happaned but now i have 70 C degrees.
> And CPU works as intended.


that means air stuck somewhere before

but

arent u running funny orientation for ure cpu block









EK-Supremacy EVO


EK-Supremacy EVO is an evolution of an EK-Supremacy flagship performance water block, introduced in 2012. Fits all modern CPU sockets and is equipped with a universal mounting mechanism that offers error-preventing, tool-less installation.




www.ekwb.com





running it properly should give u another few degrees drop.


----------



## Bakuya

Clausewitz said:


> Maybe it wasn't bled properly as some thought.


I also exchange thermal paste, was noctua NT H2 and now is noctua NT H1.

Maybe termal paste is sh... becouse it to liquid i think.

Dont know what is that.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> [
> 
> that means air stuck somewhere before
> 
> but
> 
> arent u running funny orientation for ure cpu block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EK-Supremacy EVO
> 
> 
> EK-Supremacy EVO is an evolution of an EK-Supremacy flagship performance water block, introduced in 2012. Fits all modern CPU sockets and is equipped with a universal mounting mechanism that offers error-preventing, tool-less installation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ekwb.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> running it properly should give u another few degrees drop.


I tried many orientation but nothing changed.

In that range 90+C i cannot see 2/3 C degrees))


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> I tried many orientation but nothing changed.
> 
> In that range 90+C i cannot see 2/3 C degrees))


never tested it myself cause to me.. jetplate aligned to the way the cpu cores die.. make sense


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> never tested it myself cause to me.. jetplate aligned to the way the cpu cores die.. make sense


Maybe but now i scarry to touch something before i not really sure what hapoened))


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I installed the plastic piece inside the block incorrectly. Once I corrected it, temps dropped and OC went up.

Bad:










Good:


----------



## Bakuya

0451 said:


> I installed the plastic piece inside the block incorrectly. Once I corrected it, temps dropped and OC went up.
> 
> Bad:
> 
> View attachment 2521588
> 
> 
> Good:
> 
> View attachment 2521590


Gg thanks for input, clean WB before install.

It was installed right way.
I think thermal paste


----------



## Bakuya

Bakuya said:


> Gg thanks for input, clean WB before install.
> 
> It was installed right way.
> I think thermal paste


Seems i can exchange my CPU my dealler say, - at SP50 but maybe new one get better sp or leave as it is?


----------



## Clausewitz

Bakuya said:


> I also exchange thermal paste, was noctua NT H2 and now is noctua NT H1.
> 
> Maybe termal paste is sh... becouse it to liquid i think.
> 
> Dont know what is that.


I haven't really experienced a dramatic change in thermal paste results personally. I've tried garbage thermal paste, top of the line paste, mid range paste, unless it was Konductonaut it didn't really do much 1 - 3c either direction.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Bakuya said:


> Seems i can exchange my CPU my dealler say, - at SP50 but maybe new one get better sp or leave as it is?


I just sold an SP50 that does 5.25 all core and gear 1 3866c14. SP is just an Asus marketing gimmick.


----------



## Bakuya

Clausewitz said:


> I haven't really experienced a dramatic change in thermal paste results personally. I've tried garbage thermal paste, top of the line paste, mid range paste, unless it was Konductonaut it didn't really do much 1 - 3c either direction.


So i dont have a clue what i did to get normal temps, need to do research, but case is really heavy for my buggling spinal discs(((


----------



## Bakuya

0451 said:


> I just sold an SP50 that does 5.25 all core and gear 1 3866c14. SP is just an Asus marketing gimmick.


At what voltage?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

1.375v

It seems SP value sometimes correlates to voltage at a given multiplier setting. Other times, it has nothing to do with it.









[Sold] 11900k $400


Ordered from Newegg on 7/19. This CPU does 5.25ghz all core HT enabled with reasonable power draw and voltages in my testing with watercooling. IMC can handle 3866 14-15-15 Gear 1 using both my Patriot Viper 4400C19 and Gskill 4000 C14 kits. Never delidded, never put on LN2. I am selling because...




www.overclock.net


----------



## CallMeODZ

Does anyone know of any new release or soon-to-be-released notable/interesting 32gb kits (bonus points if not rgb)? 
looking for a new toy to tinker with


----------



## Nizzen

CallMeODZ said:


> Does anyone know of any new release or soon-to-be-released notable/interesting 32gb kits (bonus points if not rgb)?
> looking for a new toy to tinker with


The new G.Skill Trident Z Royal Elite is the top of the line now. Like the 4000 c14 2x 16GB 
Ripjaw V no rgb model avaiable


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> Seems i can exchange my CPU my dealler say, - at SP50 but maybe new one get better sp or leave as it is?


If you are interested in memory OC I would check if your current CPU can do gear 3866+. I had SP55 and SP85 and neither could do 3866. SP85 had the weakest IMC needing sa of 1.45 to even boot 3733 and 1.5 to be stable. 

I bought the SP50 from @0451 and it does 3866c14. I haven't tested it much but so far the difference from SP50 to SP85 is very little in actual use if you run the typical 51/45 to 52/46 range.


----------



## Groove2013

CallMeODZ said:


> Does anyone know of any new release or soon-to-be-released notable/interesting 32gb kits (bonus points if not rgb)?
> looking for a new toy to tinker with


G.Skill RipJaws V 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.4 V (F4-4000C16D-32GVKA)
or
G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-35 1.55 V (F4-4000C14D-32GVK)


----------



## CallMeODZ

thanks bois

yeah nizzen i have seen the royal around iv seen some here using it i couldnt bring myself to buy it
ill grab a kit when they have little disco balls hanging from the sticks and some neon lasers shooting around the case, its not flashy enough for me


----------



## Groove2013

This is a very good test of number of cores vs. cache size on Intel.


----------



## Groove2013

Poor Rocket Lake with its 16 MB L3 vs. upcoming refresh of Ryzen 5000 with 3x more L3 than currently, which means 96 instead of 32 MB L3 for a 5800X with 16 threads...


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> If you are interested in memory OC I would check if your current CPU can do gear 3866+. I had SP55 and SP85 and neither could do 3866. SP85 had the weakest IMC needing sa of 1.45 to even boot 3733 and 1.5 to be stable.
> 
> I bought the SP50 from @0451 and it does 3866c14. I haven't tested it much but so far the difference from SP50 to SP85 is very little in actual use if you run the typical 51/45 to 52/46 range.


3866 14 34 n1?

What dram V and mcio and sa i must ry?


bscool said:


> If you are interested in memory OC I would check if your current CPU can do gear 3866+. I had SP55 and SP85 and neither could do 3866. SP85 had the weakest IMC needing sa of 1.45 to even boot 3733 and 1.5 to be stable.
> 
> I bought the SP50 from @0451 and it does 3866c14. I haven't tested it much but so far the difference from SP50 to SP85 is very little in actual use if you run the typical 51/45 to 52/46 range.


Booted 14 14 14 28 2T 3866 1.35 io 1.4 sa 1.52 dram


----------



## Koboldness

Groove2013 said:


> Poor Rocket Lake with its 16 MB L3 vs. upcoming refresh of Ryzen 5000 with 3x more L3 than currently, which means 96 instead of 32 MB L3 for a 5800X with 16 threads...


Well, if the 5800X gets 96MB L3, then gg...


----------



## bscool

@Bakuya that sounds good if you can boot those timings and voltages

Edit also are you running Asus MCE enabled? I think if you set that to enabled it will try to run at 53 all core and you will have issues unless you have a golden CPU. I cant remember for sure since I don't use it but I know in the past MCE enabled would max all cores out if you didn't manually set the core clock. Edit2 just checked and looks like it does all core 51 with MCE enabled, so that should be fine.


----------



## bscool

Just loaded my old setting from previous SP85 11900k(52/46 3733c14-15-15) and it would not [email protected] and pass cinebench20 Well this SP50 did 53 so take the SP with a grain of salt. 1.5v LLC6

You guys who know how the SP works. Is possible intel is adding more voltage(voltage tables?) to these latter chips to ensure stability so they show a lower SP? I have no idea how this works but it seems like the lower SP are as good as higher SPs from the few chips I have had.


----------



## ALSTER868

My SP50 11900K is doing [email protected] bios LLC6 and is booting easily 3866 14-14, though didn't have time to do stability tests extensively.
In Gear 2 however it does not let me past 4400 17-17 1T 1.49/1.1/1.2 vdram/mcio/sa.
So this SP rating seems kinda bs.

PS Any tips how to boot 4533 on DR b-die? Tried 17-18, 18-18. 18-19, 18-20 to no avail.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

ALSTER868 said:


> My SP50 11900K is doing [email protected] bios LLC6 and is booting easily 3866 14-14, though didn't have time to do stability tests extensively.
> In Gear 2 however it does not let me past 4400 17-17 1T 1.49/1.1/1.2 vdram/mcio/sa.
> So this SP rating seems kinda bs.
> 
> PS Any tips how to boot 4533 on DR b-die? Tried 17-18, 18-18. 18-19, 18-20 to no avail.


You can try boot 4400 then push bclk.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bscool said:


> Just loaded my old setting from previous SP85 11900k(52/46 3733c14-15-15) and it would not [email protected] and pass cinebench20 Well this SP50 did 53 so take the SP with a grain of salt. 1.5v LLC6
> 
> You guys who know how the SP works. Is possible intel is adding more voltage(voltage tables?) to these latter chips to ensure stability so they show a lower SP? I have no idea how this works but it seems like the lower SP are as good as higher SPs from the few chips I have had.


GPU package power looks high. I had that chip running Prime95 small fft AVX off at 5.3 at 310-315w. Try running a lower voltage or different load line setting.

As we discussed, I could not run 4533 or higher either. I think low SP chips might be gear 2 deficient?


----------



## Bakuya

0451 said:


> GPU package power looks high. I had that chip running Prime95 small fft AVX off at 5.3 at 310-315w. Try running a lower voltage or different load line setting.
> 
> As we discussed, I could not run 4533 or higher either. I think low SP chips might be gear 2 deficient?


My easy run 4600 17 18 1T with 1.3 sa and 1.3 io 1.52 dram, its from memory profiles in asus.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

My 1st 5.4ghz Cinebench!











Bakuya said:


> My easy run 4600 17 18 1T with 1.3 sa and 1.3 io 1.52 dram, its from memory profiles in asus.


I was quoting bscool, since the CPU I mailed him should use less current at 5.3 all core. We both could not run 4533 Gear 2 on that CPU, but we both could manage 3866 Gear 1.

Your CPU may have better Gear 2 capability.


----------



## cstkl1

i just realized..
i gave a misinformation

the skews i used on apex is actually skews from m13e many moons ago for 3866




Bakuya said:


> My easy run 4600 17 18 1T with 1.3 sa and 1.3 io 1.52 dram, its from memory profiles in asus.


on dr? impressive.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> i just realized..
> i gave a misinformation
> 
> the skews i used on apex is actually skews from m13e many moons ago for 3866
> 
> 
> 
> on dr? impressive.


SR


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> SR


not impressive. lol

they are talking about dr
bdie sr no issue even 5066

4533c17 dr bdie this.. testing lower vdimm timing pairing for example.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2521657
> 
> 
> not impressive. lol
> 
> they are talking about dr
> bdie sr no issue even 5066
> 
> 4533c17 dr bdie this.. testing lower vdimm timing pairing for example.


I do not testing higher clock, but soon.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Double post


----------



## cstkl1

now need to find a way to reduce trfc so copy can keep climbing


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## sugi0lover

Testing my current daily OC seup by passing Cine R23 30 minutes Test Stability
goona use this setup until I change my RAM to dr 32GB kit.

CPU : [email protected] / Cache 4.6Ghz
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1007)
Memory OC : 4000Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (Gear1)
Voltages (Bios) : vcore 1.380v (full load 1.341v) : RAM 1.670v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.53v : Mem OC IO 1.35v
Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Testing my current daily OC seup by passing Cine R23 30 minutes Test Stability
> goona use this setup until I change my RAM to dr 32GB kit.
> 
> CPU : [email protected] / Cache 4.6Ghz
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1007)
> Memory OC : 4000Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (Gear1)
> Voltages (Bios) : vcore 1.380v (full load 1.341v) : RAM 1.670v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.53v : Mem OC IO 1.35v
> Cooling MORA 420 Pro Custom Water Cooling (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> 
> View attachment 2521671


i am really tempted to go back to sr but 16gb
really will start using pagefile alot.


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> i am really tempted to go back to sr but 16gb
> really will start using pagefile alot.


optane drive probably would help but yeah not ideal


----------



## Astral85

Have strange issue with Maximus XIII Hero... Went to check Chipset in Device Manager and found it displaying Z390 chipset drivers instead. Also with error: Code 45 Currently this device is not connected to the computer.

I've tried reinstalling the current 10.1.18807.8279 WHQL chipset drivers from ROG forums and now Device Manager is not displaying any chipset driver at all...


----------



## cstkl1

Astral85 said:


> Have strange issue with Maximus XIII Hero... Went to check Chipset in Device Manager and found it displaying Z390 chipset drivers instead. Also with error: Code 45 Currently this device is not connected to the computer.
> 
> I've tried reinstalling the current 10.1.18807.8279 WHQL chipset drivers from ROG forums and now Device Manager is not displaying any chipset driver at all...


wrong thread but generally on fresh armory crate install all drivers
later
download armoury crate uninstaller
done


----------



## Astral85

cstkl1 said:


> wrong thread but generally on fresh armory crate install all drivers
> later
> download armoury crate uninstaller
> done


I've never installed Armory Crate on this machine...


----------



## Groove2013

There is *Bartxstore* on Facebook and I think also on eBay, that sells ideally flat custom IHS for Rocket Lake and it's also nickel plated, to avoid liquid metal absorption by pure copper.


----------



## IronAge

Astral85 said:


> I've never installed Armory Crate on this machine...


only needed it to obtain the free AIDA64 Licence Key.


----------



## Groove2013

Delidding + absolutely flat IHS should help with temp and thus with lower voltage.

One of my friends could observe 9°C lower temp after delidding and removing all the silicon, without gluing it back together.
Because when you have silicon between the IHS and the PCB, the IHS and the DIE are not so close to each other and heat transfer is not the best.

And a perfectly flat IHS could also drop the temp by additional 2-3°C.

If the 2nd 11900K will be able to 3866 MHz and won't require super high vcore, I definitely will delid and buy custom perfectly flat IHS.


----------



## Astral85

IronAge said:


> only needed it to obtain the free AIDA64 Licence Key.


Which AIDA version is it for?


----------



## IronAge

Astral85 said:


> Which AIDA version is it for?


Extreme, and the licence lasts almost three years, from when i bought my Hero XIII.

just install it with armoury crate and copy the pkey file from program directory to directory of a more recent version.


----------



## IronAge

@Groove2013

i used BartX on S2066 Skylake-X, and compared to original HS with LM and silicone clue applied it made like ~3-5 degree celcius difference.

and S2066 Skylake-X HS are more uneven than HS of RKL/CML CPUs.


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> @Groove2013
> 
> i used BartX on S2066 Skylake-X, and compared to original HS with LM and silicon clue applied it made like ~3-5 degree celcius difference.
> 
> and S2066 Skylake-X HS are more uneven than HS of RKL/CML CPUs.


That's why I think it's not more than 2-3°C improvement, instead of 3-5°C.

Buy you know, when you're on a Noctua NH-D15, up to 10°C less by delidding and up to 3°C less with custom IHS, >10°C lower temp is a significant help.


----------



## Clausewitz

I see a lot of people saying they are hitting 52/46 etc. What voltage are you guys using and is that fully stable or just cinebench stable? That seems awfully high - golden chips?


----------



## cstkl1

this one funny post.

he just got confused with bus cycle.


Clausewitz said:


> I see a lot of people saying they are hitting 52/46 etc. What voltage are you guys using and is that fully stable or just cinebench stable? That seems awfully high - golden chips?


temps. if ure arnd 70s u can clock higher.


----------



## Clausewitz

cstkl1 said:


> this one funny post.
> 
> he just got confused with bus cycle.
> 
> temps. if ure arnd 70s u can clock higher.


What sort of cooling are you running?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Clausewitz said:


> I see a lot of people saying they are hitting 52/46 etc. What voltage are you guys using and is that fully stable or just cinebench stable? That seems awfully high - golden chips?


53 stable at 1.4v Asrock LLC1 (1.36 vid) and 54 Cinebench only at 1.52v LLC1, 275w and 320w respectively. I have a custom loop.


----------



## cstkl1

Clausewitz said:


> What sort of cooling are you running?


custom. but atj one pump down and i am having flowrate issue. transfering to new case etc new pumps dual loop.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> custom. but atj one pump down and i am having flowrate issue. transfering to new case etc new pumps dual loop.


Which rads did you say you are getting with your new loop?


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Which rads did you say you are getting with your new loop?


xe 360, pe 360 and later qdc to my 560s nemesis gtx

also need to change my ac.


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> Set LLC2 (ASRock) and test max stable multiplier at 1.35 and 1.40 core voltage.


Hello, please i need a little more info on that . What´s about the cache Frequency Standard ? 4GHZ or ? With Intel Speedstep or without ? Standard Ram Frequncy (max 3200 ) or ?

Thanks a lot .


----------



## Groove2013

Neon Knights said:


> Hello, please i need a little more info on that . What´s about the cache Frequency Standard ? 4GHZ or ? With Intel Speedstep or without ? Standard Ram Frequncy (max 3200 ) or ?
> 
> Thanks a lot .


Very strange questions.
See what your CPU can do as cache and RAM frequency or check screens of other users here man.
Also read the thread a little at least, before ask for stuff you can find your answers for by reading here.


----------



## Neon Knights

Groove2013 said:


> Very strange questions.
> See what your CPU can do as cache and RAM frequency or check screens of other users here man.
> Also read the thread a little at least, before ask for stuff you can find your answers for by reading here.


Yup , "MAN" please cool down , thank you


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Neon Knights said:


> Hello, please i need a little more info on that . What´s about the cache Frequency Standard ? 4GHZ or ? With Intel Speedstep or without ? Standard Ram Frequncy (max 3200 ) or ?
> 
> Thanks a lot .


You should probably read some overclocking guides if you are starting from scratch and watch some videos that explain the basics. I don’t want to tell you something that could end up damaging your CPU.


----------



## Lsaint738

Hey would anyone mind posting an apex 4000mhz gear 1 for bios. I’m having some trouble and would like a baseline.


----------



## Astral85

IronAge said:


> Extreme, and the licence lasts almost three years, from when i bought my Hero XIII.
> 
> just install it with armoury crate and copy the pkey file from program directory to directory of a more recent version.


So I've got Armory Crate installed but can't find AIDA or the license key anywhere.


----------



## GeneO

Astral85 said:


> So I've got Armory Crate installed but can't find AIDA or the license key anywhere.


Same here. Did you have Aida64 installed when you installed Armory Crate?


----------



## Neon Knights

[


0451 said:


> You should probably read some overclocking guides if you are starting from scratch and watch some videos that explain the basics. *I don’t want to tell you something that could end up damaging your CPU.*


Thank you - maybe i have not started good here in this thread . Understand that good
First a little overview of my system:
Asrock Z590 OCF L1.27H
I9 11900K
G Skill F4-4266C17-16GTRGB
Custom Loop 1x Laing DDC1T+ ; 1x360/30 ; 1x240/45 Radi ; 850W Seasonic PRIME Ultra Titan 

CPU is running like the following (Vcore auto with vf curve ; LLC4 ; avx 2 offset = 3 ; avx512 offset = 11)
















Would like to have a allcore 5,2 , but allways hitting a wall there , latest on CB20 BSOD clock watchdog timeout (means to me more VC) .Tried till 1,42-144 LLC4 (inkl. vdroop ; also P95 nonavx).
And therefore i would like to have some tips. THX . If CPU is at it´s END then it is .......


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Neon Knights said:


> [
> 
> Thank you - maybe i have not started good here in this thread . Understand that good
> First a little overview of my system:
> Asrock Z590 OCF
> I9 11900K
> G Skill F4-4266C17-16GTRGB
> Custom Loop 1x Laing DDC1T ; 1x360/30 ; 1x240/45 Radi
> 
> CPU is running like the following (Vcore auto with vf curve ; LLC4 ; avx 2 offset = 3 ; avx512 offset = 11)
> View attachment 2522222
> 
> View attachment 2522223
> 
> Would like to have a allcore 5,2 , but allways hitting a wall there , latest on CB20 BSOD clock watchdog timeout (means to me more VC) .Tried till 1,42-144 LLC4 (inkl. vdroop ; also P95 nonavx).
> And therefore i would like to have some tips. THX . If CPU is at it´s END then it is .......


We have the same motherboard. Can you run Prime95 small fft with AVX off and show CPU package power in HWINFO64?


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> We have the same motherboard. Can you run Prime95 small fft with AVX off and show CPU package power in HWINFO64?


Yes , late afternoon i can perhaps show you....


----------



## Groove2013

Neon Knights said:


> [
> 
> Thank you - maybe i have not started good here in this thread . Understand that good
> First a little overview of my system:
> Asrock Z590 OCF L1.27H
> I9 11900K
> G Skill F4-4266C17-16GTRGB
> Custom Loop 1x Laing DDC1T+ ; 1x360/30 ; 1x240/45 Radi ; 850W Seasonic PRIME Ultra Titan
> 
> CPU is running like the following (Vcore auto with vf curve ; LLC4 ; avx 2 offset = 3 ; avx512 offset = 11)
> View attachment 2522222
> 
> View attachment 2522223
> 
> Would like to have a allcore 5,2 , but allways hitting a wall there , latest on CB20 BSOD clock watchdog timeout (means to me more VC) .Tried till 1,42-144 LLC4 (inkl. vdroop ; also P95 nonavx).
> And therefore i would like to have some tips. THX . If CPU is at it´s END then it is .......


The problem is the bad quality of your CPU sample.
I had the same problem.


----------



## sugi0lover

Lsaint738 said:


> Hey would anyone mind posting an apex 4000mhz gear 1 for bios. I’m having some trouble and would like a baseline.


Here is the profile (CMO) file for Z590 Apex.

Memory OC : 4000Mhz-14-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.520v : IO 1.050v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.35v






4000141428.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> We have the same motherboard. Can you run Prime95 small fft with AVX off and show CPU package power in HWINFO64?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Neon Knights said:


> View attachment 2522266


Hmm. Let’s try a more aggressive load line. Try LLC1 1.40v core voltage. What is the highest clock speed that can complete Cinebench R20? Nevermind stability for now.


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> Hmm. Let’s try a more aggressive load line. Try LLC1 1.40v core voltage. What is the highest clock speed that can complete Cinebench R20? Nevermind stability for now.


THX a lot, but need today a stable pc , but i let you know in time , again thx. One question please: AFAIK, if i do so, the voltage is fixed, but cpu frequency follows intel speed step if enabled , correct ?


----------



## Groove2013

Neon Knights said:


> THX a lot, but need today a stable pc , but i let you know in time , again thx. One question please: AFAIK, if i do so, the voltage is fixed, but cpu frequency follows intel speed step if enabled , correct ?


LLC has nothing to do with frequency.
As long as you have Intel SpeedStep/EIST enabled and in energy profiles you allow the CPU min state less than 100%, it will be able to go down to 800 MHz, even if the voltage won't drop.


----------



## Neon Knights

Groove2013 said:


> LLC has nothing to do with frequency.
> As long as you have Intel SpeedStep/EIST enabled and in energy profiles you allow the CPU min state less than 100%, it will be able to go down to 800 MHz, even if the voltage won't drop.


THX thats what i did expect


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> Hmm. Let’s try a more aggressive load line. Try LLC1 1.40v core voltage. What is the highest clock speed that can complete Cinebench R20? Nevermind stability for now.


Tried 1,45VC / LLC1; 5,2 allcore ; offset avx 4 = 4,8 = BSOD in CB20 at around 25% picture load. Then with avx 2 offset 6 = 4,6 gives at around 50% picture Laod same BSOD. Thats why i asked about avx offset cache and so on. Sorry cache was only at 4GHZ this time........ pretty bad silicon i guess.


----------



## Groove2013

Neon Knights said:


> Tried 1,45VC / LLC1; 5,2 allcore ; offset avx 4 = 4,8 = BSOD in CB20 at around 25% picture load. Then with avx 2 offset 6 = 4,6 gives at around 50% picture Laod same BSOD. Thats why i asked about avx offset cache and so on. Sorry cache was only at 4GHZ this time........ pretty bad silicon i guess.


Yes, really bad CPU sample.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Neon Knights said:


> Tried 1,45VC / LLC1; 5,2 allcore ; offset avx 4 = 4,8 = BSOD in CB20 at around 25% picture load. Then with avx 2 offset 6 = 4,6 gives at around 50% picture Laod same BSOD. Thats why i asked about avx offset cache and so on. Sorry cache was only at 4GHZ this time........ pretty bad silicon i guess.


I don’t use an AVX offset. Your issue could be silicon quality. My CPU does 5.3 at 1.40v LL1 but it’s the best of 5 that I binned. Your issue could also be cooling. Myself and @tps3443 both had recent cooling issues that were fixed by tearing apart our loops. My cpu block jetplate was installed sideways and @tps3443 had gunk in his pump.


----------



## IronAge

GeneO said:


> Same here. Did you have Aida64 installed when you installed Armory Crate?


Uninstall AIDA64, Download and reinstall it with Armoury Crate in Tools Menu, start it once and exit.
Copy pkey to a save place, you can use it with recent zipped Beta Versions



Neon Knights said:


> ........ pretty bad silicon i guess.


I have SP83 11900K which can go, i will test it until next weekend.

if its good you could have it, i will let you know via PM if you want.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> I don’t use an AVX offset. Your issue could be silicon quality. My CPU does 5.3 at 1.40v LL1 but it’s the best of 5 that I binned. Your issue could also be cooling. Myself and @tps3443 both had recent cooling issues that were fixed by tearing apart our loops. My cpu block jetplate was installed sideways and @tps3443 had gunk in his pump.


Yep, those D5 pump shafts that the magnetic impeller sits on get super filthy. I would wipe it all clean with alcohol until the black residue is all gone (If he has a D5). Also, my pump still registered that it was turning at a high rpm strangely enough. Just the actual water pressure was low (Though I thought it was normal) and all of my outlet fittings were really warm which was another side effect.. Waterflow had a very tame and calm stream back in the reservoir. 

Now I am pushing that same D5 at 100% power, through CPU block, GPU block, and a massive Alphacool nexxxos 1080x45mm radiator, and its flow back to the reservoir is like white water lol. 

I recommend anyone who has custom loop and temp problems, to just tear apart the entire loop, and check every single part. you’ll only save your self time.


----------



## Koboldness

edit: I will try 3866 again with Samsung Bdie soon.


----------



## sugi0lover

Is there any difference bet. the below ram kits other than ram covers?
I am going to remove ram cover for water cooling, so ram cover doesn't matter to me.
any OC experience to share?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Both my elites did over 3900c14 but neither hit 4000. My 3rd set of 32gb 4000c14 arrives tomorrow.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Is there any difference bet. the below ram kits other than ram covers?
> I am going to remove ram cover for water cooling, so ram cover doesn't matter to me.
> any OC experience to share?
> 
> View attachment 2522328


if wc i think no diff 

all now 10 layer pcb.


----------



## yns44

Hi all, fairly new here 

After getting rid of my terrible AMD setup (5950x / 6900 XT - never again AMD btw, its just so unfinished in many aspects), I have ordered


11900k
Asus Maximus XIII Hero (is the Apex better?)


1. I am planning on delidding it, following derbauers yt video. Should I apply some heat via a heatgun(hairdryer) before trying to loosen the glue -> and then putting it into the oven? Any general recommendations on what works best? I know its risky but the ~10°C are worth it.

2. Before delidding it, I would like to check how "binned" my 11900k is. Whats the best way to find out? I have the Noctua NH-D15

3. My ram is F4-3200C14-16GTZKW (B-Die). I have read going for max ~3800 MHZ and increasing the timings - what is the recommended setting? Its currently running @3600mhz CL14-14-14-34 @1.45v (didnt optimize it yet, just casual OC to fit with 5950x)


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> I don’t use an AVX offset. Your issue could be silicon quality. My CPU does 5.3 at 1.40v LL1 but it’s the best of 5 that I binned. Your issue could also be cooling. Myself and @tps3443 both had recent cooling issues that were fixed by tearing apart our loops. My cpu block jetplate was installed sideways and @tps3443 had gunk in his pump.


Thanks : Max i can do (CB20) is around 5150 with FSB, slightly improved VF curve ; AVX voltage guardband factor 1,04 ; otherwise the same settings . Strange isn´t it ?


----------



## Neon Knights

IronAge said:


> Uninstall AIDA64, Download and reinstall it with Armoury Crate in Tools Menu, start it once and exit.
> Copy pkey to a save place, you can use it with recent zipped Beta Versions
> 
> 
> 
> *I have SP83 11900K which can go, i will test it until next weekend.*
> 
> *if its good you could have it, i will let you know via PM if you want.*


....i will take a closer look then, is not a promise - but thanks


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Both my elites did over 3900c14 but neither hit 4000. My 3rd set of 32gb 4000c14 arrives tomorrow.


Please share the result with us!
Anyway, do you think your ram is the reason not reaching 4000 rather than your cpu imc?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Please share the result with us!
> Anyway, do you think your ram is the reason not reaching 4000 rather than your cpu imc?


I shared this a little over a week ago before I sent back the memory kit. When I get my replacement kit tomorrow I'll test again.

As for the reason, I'm not sure. The CPU is very strong but so was the memory kit.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> I shared this a little over a week ago before I sent back the memory kit. When I get my replacement kit tomorrow I'll test again.
> 
> As for the reason, I'm not sure. The CPU is very strong but so was the memory kit.
> 
> View attachment 2522338


Thanks a lot for your input!
Anyway, I understand DR Kit's timings differ from SR timings. Are yours best optimized timings? I need the reference for OCing DR kit.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks a lot for your input!
> Anyway, I understand DR Kit's timings differ from SR timings. Are yours best optimized timings? I need the reference for OCing DR kit.


The screenshot is from my 2nd kit. I borrowed DR timings from cstkl1, then lowered tREFI and a couple more timings for stability. I did not spend a lot of time optimizing, since I returned it after owning for a couple days. I think my first kit was better since I didn't need to raise any of the timings.

When I get my 3rd kit tomorrow, I'm stuck with it since I'll be past the 30 day return window.

Edit: I lowered tREFI for stability, but raised a couple other timings I don't remember.


----------



## cstkl1

yns44 said:


> Hi all, fairly new here
> 
> After getting rid of my terrible AMD setup (5950x / 6900 XT - never again AMD btw, its just so unfinished in many aspects), I have ordered
> 
> 
> 11900k
> Asus Maximus XIII Hero (is the Apex better?)
> 
> 
> 1. I am planning on delidding it, following derbauers yt video. Should I apply some heat via a heatgun(hairdryer) before trying to loosen the glue -> and then putting it into the oven? Any general recommendations on what works best? I know its risky but the ~10°C are worth it.
> 
> 2. Before delidding it, I would like to check how "binned" my 11900k is. Whats the best way to find out?
> 
> 3. My ram is F4-3200C14-16GTZKW (B-Die). I have read going for max ~3800 MHZ and increasing the timings - what is the recommended setting? Its currently running @3600mhz CL14-14-14-34 @1.45v (didnt optimize it yet, just casual OC to fit with 5950x)


if ure aiming for absolute best

atm all the 2dimms besides giga tachyon seem to have their pro and cons. 

latency & bandwidth apex is reign supreme.

need more users of other boards to post more clocks


----------



## yns44

cstkl1 said:


> if ure aiming for absolute best
> 
> atm all the 2dimms besides giga tachyon seem to have their pro and cons.
> 
> latency & bandwidth apex is reign supreme.
> 
> need more users of other boards to post more clocks



Thanks.


You have any answers for my questions 1. to 3.?


----------



## cstkl1

yns44 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> You have any answers for my questions 1. to 3.?


thats subjective to your expectations and what you are able to achieve

nobody here has gift of prophecy dude


----------



## geriatricpollywog

New RAM kit is here! 4000c14 requires 1.49 SA while 3960c14 only requires 1.43 SA.

3960 has better performance and latency than 4000, so I'll work on dialing 3960 or 3980 as my daily.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> New RAM kit is here! 4000c14 requires 1.49 SA while 3960c14 only requires 1.43 SA.
> 
> 3960 has better performance and latency than 4000, so I'll work on dialing 3960 or 3980 as my daily.
> 
> View attachment 2522420
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2522421


Thanks for sharing the info!
It seems like bclk oc. Maybe OC formula shows differntly than apex. If bclk oc, does it boot 4000 without bclk oc? I wonder what the ram voltage is.


----------



## ALSTER868

Guys, what's the general consensus on choosing DR 4000C14 over 4000C16? Which is worth byuing for 1:1 overclocking?
Ripjaws or Trident Z?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

0451 said:


> New RAM kit is here! 4000c14 requires 1.49 SA while 3960c14 only requires 1.43 SA.
> 
> 3960 has better performance and latency than 4000, so I'll work on dialing 3960 or 3980 as my daily.
> 
> View attachment 2522420
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2522421


Can RTLs be lower?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing the info!
> It seems like bclk oc. Maybe OC formula shows differntly than apex. If bclk oc, does it boot 4000 without bclk oc? I wonder what the ram voltage is.


Try initial BCLK trick  Maybe set to 97~98


----------



## bscool

@0451 in 4000 timings rtls at 73/74 look like round trip latency is disabled. Are you enabling or disabling this in your settings manually? If not try setting it to enabled manually. You can see your rtls are in the 61/62 in your 3990 timings, they should be close to that with your 4000 also.

I know from testing on Asus leaving on autos vs manually setting it can show difference in rtls like you are showing.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RTLs will go as low as 62 when I set manually. BCLK 100 is not a problem at 4000. 











sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing the info!
> It seems like bclk oc. Maybe OC formula shows differntly than apex. If bclk oc, does it boot 4000 without bclk oc? I wonder what the ram voltage is.


Ram voltage is 1.55. I feel like I need to raise the voltage a little to get more speed. This kit is 1.55v at XMP, so voltage tolerance should be good.



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Can RTLs be lower?


62 is as low as they will go at 4000.



OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Try initial BCLK trick  Maybe set to 97~98


Thanks, I'll try this after work.



bscool said:


> @0451 in 4000 timings rtls at 73/74 look like round trip latency is disabled. Are you enabling or disabling this in your settings manually? If not try setting it to enabled manually. You can see your rtls are in the 61/62 in your 3990 timings, they should be close to that with your 4000 also.
> 
> I know from testing on Asus leaving on autos vs manually setting it can show difference in rtls like you are showing.


Yeah, I had left the RTLs on auto so the bios set to 72. I don't see an option for enabling/disabling RTL. There is an option to enable or disable round trip latency optimization.


----------



## bscool

@0451 Maybe Asrock doesn't have it since you can manually set RTL. Asus has a setting in Memory Algorithm section for round trip latency. It looks good now.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> RTLs will go as low as 62 when I set manually. BCLK 100 is not a problem at 4000.
> 
> View attachment 2522458
> 
> 
> Ram voltage is 1.55. I feel like I need to raise the voltage a little to get more speed. This kit is 1.55v at XMP, so voltage tolerance should be good.
> 
> 
> 62 is as low as they will go at 4000.
> 
> 
> Thanks, I'll try this after work.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I had left the RTLs on auto so the bios set to 72. I don't see an option for enabling/disabling RTL. There is an option to enable or disable round trip latency optimization.


It looks great! Have you tried to stabilize 4kc14 yet? It will be great if you share the detailed setting when you stabilize 4K.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> It looks great! Have you tried to stabilize 4kc14 yet? It will be great if you share the detailed setting when you stabilize 4K.


I have not. I’m distracted trying to boot 4040 after booting 4020. In due time I’ll work on stabilizing whatever is fastest, be it 3960, 3980 or 4000.


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> I don’t use an AVX offset. Your issue could be silicon quality. My CPU does 5.3 at 1.40v LL1 but it’s the best of 5 that I binned. Your issue could also be cooling. Myself and @tps3443 both had recent cooling issues that were fixed by tearing apart our loops. My cpu block jetplate was installed sideways and @tps3443 had gunk in his pump.


 Can you please do me a favour ? Tell me please which two cores are your best , marked with asterix in Intel XTU Utility.
Thank you...


----------



## WebsterRKL

I'm not such a great overclocker - that's for certain. lol This is the best 5066Mhz 17 17 37 336tRFC 1T I can get with the 4800/17 b-die kit.

Air-cooling with Round Trip Latency enabled and only using standard bios 0903. 

And the 11600K will only oc to 5.1Ghz, and no higher...

With the 5333 Hynix kit I can run the 11600K up to 5.3Ghz and 5333Mhz 20CL, not sure why b-die is so CPU OC restrictive. I just don't know...


----------



## Neon Knights

WebsterRKL said:


> *I'm not such a great overclocker* - that's for certain. lol This is the best 5066Mhz 17 17 37 336tRFC 1T I can get with the 4800/17 b-die kit.
> 
> Air-cooling with Round Trip Latency enabled and only using standard bios 0903.
> 
> And the 11600K will only oc to 5.1Ghz, and no higher...
> 
> With the 5333 Hynix kit I can run the 11600K up to 5.3Ghz and 5333Mhz 20CL, not sure why b-die is so CPU OC restrictive. I just don't know...
> 
> View attachment 2522558


*.... me too*, do you really think B-Dies limits CPU OC ? ..... THX


----------



## WebsterRKL

Neon Knights said:


> *.... me too*, do you really think B-Dies limits CPU OC ? ..... THX


In my hands it does. Add in air-cooling and limited knowledge base and yes 5.1Ghz is all I can get from the little 11600K at 5066 17 b-die. Yet the CPU can do 5.3Ghz running 4800 16 b-die and 5.5Ghz single thread benchmarks completed hyperthreading disabled with no mem overclocks - the give and take of Rocket Lake I guess.










5333Mhz CL20 5.3Ghz 11600K is also possible with the Hynix kit. This weekend I need to find out the maximum 11600K OC at 5600 and 5866, but honestly just for running work apps 5600Mhz CL20 with 11600K at stock feels really good.


----------



## cstkl1

Neon Knights said:


> *.... me too*, do you really think B-Dies limits CPU OC ? ..... THX


you cant really say limit cpu oc but its more to cach i think... bdie latency is due to low trcd, trp brings out the architecture performance.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Neon Knights said:


> Can you please do me a favour ? Tell me please which two cores are your best , marked with asterix in Intel XTU Utility.
> Thank you...


2 and 3



Neon Knights said:


> *.... me too*, do you really think B-Dies limits CPU OC ? ..... THX


I don't think so. I had no problem running 5.4/4000 at 47 ring at least for Cinebench.









And 5.6 ghz / 4020 mem with HT off:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)


----------



## Jwick

how about with 1t?


----------



## Jwick

i am not sure whether this is correct but i feel 1t is a limitation of the imc and 2t is mostly mem/and a bit of imc? cause increasing sa/io did not increase mem freq on gear 1 2t but on 1t it did. honestly not entirely sure. and also i dont know whats a good imc either because i havnt seen people running 1t . how hard is it to run 3866 1t dr using like 1.5v sa? (with or without bclk)


----------



## Koboldness

yns44 said:


> Asus Maximus XIII Hero (is the Apex better?)


Man, in case it´s not late already, buy the APEX! I so regret buying the HERO few months ago. It´s almost the same price anyway. I ended up to order the APEX yesterday lol. What I noticed in this forum so far, is that the HERO is decent for gear1 up to 3866, but you get like auto +1ns worse latency, plus the fact you can´t tight timings so well as on the APEX. But the APEX totally crush the HERO to the ground in gear2. You may only dream about the 4600, 4800 even 5k+ if you have the HERO. 
AND, friendly guys posts here time to time directly their BIOS.CMO files, which is amazing to have and try! The only problem is, it´s the APEX exclusive, because all those people who know what they want, have the APEX


----------



## yns44

Koboldness said:


> Man, in case it´s not late already, buy the APEX! I so regret buying the HERO few months ago. It´s almost the same price anyway. I ended up to order the APEX yesterday lol. What I noticed in this forum so far, is that the HERO is decent for gear1 up to 3866, but you get like auto +1ns worse latency, plus the fact you can´t tight timings so well as on the APEX. But the APEX totally crush the HERO to the ground in gear2. You may only dream about the 4600, 4800 even 5k+ if you have the HERO.
> AND, friendly guys posts here time to time directly their BIOS.CMO files, which is amazing to have and try! The only problem is, it´s the APEX exclusive, because all those people who know what they want, have the APEX




Too bad, I already installed the HERO 
But Gear2 is not interesting for me anway (I think?)

Funny thing:

With my previous 5950x I could run my XMP 3200 CL 14 32 GB kit
@ 3600 14-14-14-34-1N @1.45v

with my new XIII Hero + 11900k (delid) it doesnt work at all and constantly crashes. Any Idea how much IO/SA Voltage I should put?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Koboldness said:


> Man, in case it´s not late already, buy the APEX! I so regret buying the HERO few months ago. It´s almost the same price anyway. I ended up to order the APEX yesterday lol. What I noticed in this forum so far, is that the HERO is decent for gear1 up to 3866, but you get like auto +1ns worse latency, plus the fact you can´t tight timings so well as on the APEX. But the APEX totally crush the HERO to the ground in gear2. You may only dream about the 4600, 4800 even 5k+ if you have the HERO.
> AND, friendly guys posts here time to time directly their BIOS.CMO files, which is amazing to have and try! The only problem is, it´s the APEX exclusive, because all those people who know what they want, have the APEX


I had an Apex 13. I upgraded to an AsRock Z590 OC Formula.


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> you cant really say limit cpu oc but its more to cach i think... bdie latency is due to low trcd, trp brings out the architecture performance.


I guess I meant the 4800/17 b-die kit was limiting the CPU overclock when moving from 4800/16 to 5066/17 5.3 down to 5.1 compared to the Hynix 5333/22 kit which lets the CPU run up at 5.3 with ddr4 at 5333/20.

Maybe the upper limit of b-die? I just don't know, but the Hynix kit does nicely at:

5333/20 1.600v
5600/21 1.650v, 5600/20 1.675v
5866/22 1.750v

And I've been running Ring Down Bin enabled and Min/Max CPU Cache Ratio at 43 since day one, I should probably improve on that value...


----------



## Neon Knights

0451 said:


> 2 and 3
> 
> 
> I don't think so. I had no problem running 5.4/4000 at 47 ring at least for Cinebench.
> View attachment 2522585
> 
> 
> And 5.6 ghz / 4020 mem with HT off:
> 
> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)
> 
> View attachment 2522586


mine


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i am not sure whether this is correct but i feel 1t is a limitation of the imc and 2t is mostly mem/and a bit of imc? cause increasing sa/io did not increase mem freq on gear 1 2t but on 1t it did. honestly not entirely sure. and also i dont know whats a good imc either because i havnt seen people running 1t . how hard is it to run 3866 1t dr using like 1.5v sa? (with or without bclk)


1t stable on gear 2 .. suspect needs a new cmd skew. 

the default one with apex is better at benching 1T. running stress test is instant bsod for bdie.


----------



## menko2

cstkl1 said:


> 1t stable on gear 2 .. suspect needs a new cmd skew.
> 
> the default one with apex is better at benching 1T. running stress test is instant bsod for bdie.


I'm passing finally from the 10900k to the 11900k.

My mobo is M13H and memories F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA.

I found a second hand barely used 11900k with a SP 87.

Do you think I should get it this SP 87 or go lottery an buy a new from store?

I don't need too much overclock speed in cores (5.0-5.1 is fine) but ram at least 3833mhz c14 (I can forget 4000mhz since the Hero XIII won't get me for what I have been reading).

What do you recommend?


----------



## 649694

SP 87 not too shabby tbh. I'd go with that and see how the imc is. If you aren't satisfied you can always resell it and play the lottery right?


----------



## Neon Knights

menko2 said:


> I'm passing finally from the 10900k to the 11900k.
> 
> My mobo is M13H and memories F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA.
> 
> I found a second hand barely used 11900k with a SP 87.
> 
> Do you think I should get it this SP 87 or go lottery an buy a new from store?
> 
> I don't need too much overclock speed in cores (5.0-5.1 is fine) but ram at least 3833mhz c14 (I can forget 4000mhz since the Hero XIII won't get me for what I have been reading).
> 
> What do you recommend?


My humble opinion ? If you are only looking at the SP value and you trust it, then a SP87 is very good i think nowadays ,i would keep it.


----------



## yns44

System is now up and running good:

xiii hero

11900k

SP 50 btw (was already inserted into a Socket (marks on the IHS) when I opened the package from mindfactory...)
5 ghz all core @ 1.35v @ ~75°C (delid + D15 on 50% fan speed)
intel boost **** off (cuz it will make Voltage go up to 1.6 even)

2x 16gb B-Die (xmp 3200 / CL14)

3600 @ 1.5v (1.45 was 100% stable on 5950x / X570 unify btw)
14/14/14/34 / 1N
Gear 1 / 100:133


Now the very funny part:

If I put the commandrate from auto(its setting it to 2N) to 1N with the above RAM setttings, my PC will rarely boot and if it does, its gonna crash within 1 min of windows.

but

if I put the RAM settings first and leave Commandrate to Auto (aka 2N), boot into the system, reboot and change it to 1N, its completely stable.


Leaving it on Auto/2N will give me a lot more room for OCing the RAM but I prefer 1N (maybe bad decision?)


I would like to push the ram OC a bit more. 
whats max temp/voltage for B-die for daily use?
kit is F4-3200C14-16GTZKW


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> how about with 1t?


1T at 4000 and 3733 booted but immediately threw tens of errors In TM5. 3866 did not boot.



menko2 said:


> I'm passing finally from the 10900k to the 11900k.
> 
> My mobo is M13H and memories F4-4000C16D-32GTZRA.
> 
> I found a second hand barely used 11900k with a SP 87.
> 
> Do you think I should get it this SP 87 or go lottery an buy a new from store?
> 
> I don't need too much overclock speed in cores (5.0-5.1 is fine) but ram at least 3833mhz c14 (I can forget 4000mhz since the Hero XIII won't get me for what I have been reading).
> 
> What do you recommend?


It might be worth it if the SP87 is below retail and you can flip the more valuable 10900K for a profit. Otherwise no. I suspect the newer, low SP 11900K are better at gear 1 anyway. I sold an SP50 to bscool that does 3866 gear 1where his sp8x could not. Both of us could run 3866 gear 1 and neither of us could boot 4533 gear 2 on that cpu, which also does 5.25 all core by the way. My current 11900K is even newer and it does 5.3 all core and 4000c14 gear 1 but also can’t boot 4533 gear 2. I suspect it’s also an SP50.


----------



## yns44

0451 said:


> 1T at 4000 and 3733 booted but immediately threw tens of errors In TM5. 3866 did not boot.
> 
> 
> It might be worth it if the SP87 is below retail and you can flip the more valuable 10900K for a profit. Otherwise no. I suspect the newer, low SP 11900K are better at gear 1 anyway. I sold an SP50 to bscool that does 3866 gear 1where his sp8x could not. Both of us could run 3866 gear 1 and neither of us could boot 4533 gear 2 on that cpu, which also does 5.25 all core by the way. My current 11900K is even newer and it does 5.3 all core and 4000c14 gear 1 but also can’t boot 4533 gear 2. I suspect it’s also an SP50.



4000c14 gear 1? holy 

what other timings / voltage on ram / V IO ram / V SA?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

yns44 said:


> 4000c14 gear 1? holy
> 
> what other timings / voltage on ram / V IO ram / V SA?


Scroll up. I posted screenshots in the past 24h.


----------



## Jwick

did u run tm5 with the same settings u did on 2t for 1t? have u tried tweaking settings for 1t 4000 or 3733+bclk to work? also how consistent does it boot 4000 1t?


----------



## Jwick

yns44 said:


> System is now up and running good:
> 
> xiii hero
> 
> 11900k
> 
> SP 50 btw (was already inserted into a Socket (marks on the IHS) when I opened the package from mindfactory...)
> 5 ghz all core @ 1.35v @ ~75°C (delid + D15 on 50% fan speed)
> intel boost **** off (cuz it will make Voltage go up to 1.6 even)
> 
> 2x 16gb B-Die (xmp 3200 / CL14)
> 
> 3600 @ 1.5v (1.45 was 100% stable on 5950x / X570 unify btw)
> 14/14/14/34 / 1N
> Gear 1 / 100:133
> 
> 
> Now the very funny part:
> 
> If I put the commandrate from auto(its setting it to 2N) to 1N with the above RAM setttings, my PC will rarely boot and if it does, its gonna crash within 1 min of windows.
> 
> but
> 
> if I put the RAM settings first and leave Commandrate to Auto (aka 2N), boot into the system, reboot and change it to 1N, its completely stable.
> 
> 
> Leaving it on Auto/2N will give me a lot more room for OCing the RAM but I prefer 1N (maybe bad decision?)
> 
> 
> I would like to push the ram OC a bit more.
> whats max temp/voltage for B-die for daily use?
> kit is F4-3200C14-16GTZKW


usually bdie can scale upto like 1.6v on air, but depends on the bin. so is 3600 cl14 max for u on 1t? whats the highest u can get on 2t then? temps depends on your bin and how far u want to push them.


----------



## menko2

0451 said:


> 1T at 4000 and 3733 booted but immediately threw tens of errors In TM5. 3866 did not boot.
> 
> 
> It might be worth it if the SP87 is below retail and you can flip the more valuable 10900K for a profit. Otherwise no. I suspect the newer, low SP 11900K are better at gear 1 anyway. I sold an SP50 to bscool that does 3866 gear 1where his sp8x could not. Both of us could run 3866 gear 1 and neither of us could boot 4533 gear 2 on that cpu, which also does 5.25 all core by the way. My current 11900K is even newer and it does 5.3 all core and 4000c14 gear 1 but also can’t boot 4533 gear 2. I suspect it’s also an SP50.


If I can get a SP 50 that does 4000mhz gear 1 I will prefer it over SP 87 3833mhz.

4000mhz looks great.

Does the newer chips then have lower SP but stronger IMC?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

menko2 said:


> If I can get a SP 50 that does 4000mhz gear 1 I will prefer it over SP 87 3833mhz.
> 
> 4000mhz looks great.
> 
> Does the newer chips then have lower SP but stronger IMC?


No idea but we have a clear example of an SP50 doing 5.25 all core with 5.3 benchable and 3866 stable on my Asrock and bschool’s Asus boards. It’s actually the 3rd or 4th chip he’s socketed and the only one that does 3866c14. I want to believe that Intel ruined the SP algorithm on newer chips while simultaneously making them better.


----------



## Jwick

so does anyone know from which batch intel changed something with the cpu? for people not owning asus boards.


----------



## menko2

0451 said:


> No idea but we have a clear example of an SP50 doing 5.25 all core with 5.3 benchable and 3866 stable on my Asrock and bschool’s Asus boards. It’s actually the 3rd or 4th chip he’s socketed and the only one that does 3866c14. I want to believe that Intel ruined the SP algorithm on newer chips while simultaneously making them better.


The 11900k SP 87 they are selling to me is 530€. It's basically new and mounted in a PC that didn't sell at the end. Can't return or exchange it.

A brand new one is 580€ in the only store in Spain that "allows" a return. No idea of which batches or how new they are the chips.

I'll sell my 10900k SP 93 which is more or less new.

At the end for gaming for this 11th gen vs 10gen all relates more to memory IMC than the speed of the chip.

Difference is not going to be much 10900k vs 11900k but I'll be more future proof with pie 4.0 supported with 11th gen for GPU and SSD.

So for my M13H I guess for your advice is to go for lottery and try getting IMC 3833mhz with my M13H. 4000mhz would be too much to ask looks like.


----------



## Jwick

11900k has an edge over gaming with better lows and better frame time consistency and no weird **** with cache compared to 10900k. but for games which scales with cores 10900k might be better.


----------



## Jwick

menko2 said:


> The 11900k SP 87 they are selling to me is 530€. It's basically new and mounted in a PC that didn't sell at the end. Can't return or exchange it.
> 
> A brand new one is 580€ in the only store in Spain that "allows" a return. No idea of which batches or how new they are the chips.
> 
> I'll sell my 10900k SP 93 which is more or less new.
> 
> At the end for gaming for this 11th gen vs 10gen all relates more to memory IMC than the speed of the chip.
> 
> Difference is not going to be much 10900k vs 11900k but I'll be more future proof with pie 4.0 supported with 11th gen for GPU and SSD.
> 
> So for my M13H I guess for your advice is to go for lottery and try getting IMC 3833mhz with my M13H. 4000mhz would be too much to ask looks like.


getting 200mhz on imc is better than getting 200 on core.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

3866 is stable. Now to try 3900.












menko2 said:


> The 11900k SP 87 they are selling to me is 530€. It's basically new and mounted in a PC that didn't sell at the end. Can't return or exchange it.
> 
> A brand new one is 580€ in the only store in Spain that "allows" a return. No idea of which batches or how new they are the chips.
> 
> I'll sell my 10900k SP 93 which is more or less new.
> 
> At the end for gaming for this 11th gen vs 10gen all relates more to memory IMC than the speed of the chip.
> 
> Difference is not going to be much 10900k vs 11900k but I'll be more future proof with pie 4.0 supported with 11th gen for GPU and SSD.
> 
> So for my M13H I guess for your advice is to go for lottery and try getting IMC 3833mhz with my M13H. 4000mhz would be too much to ask looks like.


Dude my advice is to keep the 10900K unless you hate money and are ready to dump more $$ into bespoke ram.


----------



## Nizzen

menko2 said:


> The 11900k SP 87 they are selling to me is 530€. It's basically new and mounted in a PC that didn't sell at the end. Can't return or exchange it.
> 
> A brand new one is 580€ in the only store in Spain that "allows" a return. No idea of which batches or how new they are the chips.
> 
> I'll sell my 10900k SP 93 which is more or less new.
> 
> At the end for gaming for this 11th gen vs 10gen all relates more to memory IMC than the speed of the chip.
> 
> Difference is not going to be much 10900k vs 11900k but I'll be more future proof with pie 4.0 supported with 11th gen for GPU and SSD.
> 
> So for my M13H I guess for your advice is to go for lottery and try getting IMC 3833mhz with my M13H. 4000mhz would be too much to ask looks like.


Are you actually getting more futureproof with 2 cores less and a bit slower gaming performance in general (if both are tweaked "max) ? Pci-e 4.0 doesn't help gaming performance 

I have both 10900k and 11900k, but I can't see any more futureproof in 11900k. Maybe it's just me


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> 11900k has an edge over gaming with better lows and better frame time consistency and no weird **** with cache compared to 10900k. but for games which scales with cores 10900k might be better.


If you are running 4700c17 max tweaked on 10900k and 3866c14 max tweaked on 11900k, I'm not so sure. 2 extra cores can actually help min fps, due to background services running.


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> 5 ghz all core @ 1.35v @ ~75°C (delid + D15 on 50% fan speed)


75°C in which test? 75°C max or avg?
1.35 V in the BIOS, in idle desktop, min under load or avg under load?


----------



## Jwick

Nizzen said:


> If you are running 4700c17 max tweaked on 10900k and 3866c14 max tweaked on 11900k, I'm not so sure. 2 extra cores can actually help min fps, due to background services running.


games which scale on single core perf will scale better with 11900k , games which favor multicore will run better on 10 core, and looks like intel will be sticking with 8 performance cores for a while.


----------



## menko2

Nizzen said:


> Are you actually getting more futureproof with 2 cores less and a bit slower gaming performance in general (if both are tweaked "max) ? Pci-e 4.0 doesn't help gaming performance
> 
> I have both 10900k and 11900k, but I can't see any more futureproof in 11900k. Maybe it's just me


I'm mentioning because next GPUs will use PCIe 4 I guess. Then the 10900k PCIe 3 will be bottleneck. 

That's why I mention future proof. Playing at 4k neither 11900k or 10900k will make a difference now with a 3090. With a future 4090 i think it will no?


----------



## WebsterRKL

The Hynix kit is working exactly like b-die. As mem clocks increase, CPU clocks must decrease.

5.2Ghz for the 11600K is all I could reach at 5600Mhz CL21

5.3Ghz 11600K at 5333Mhz CL20 is also available. Maybe I should have got the 11900K.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> games which scale on single core perf will scale better with 11900k , games which favor multicore will run better on 10 core, and looks like intel will be sticking with 8 performance cores for a while.


So what games does perform better with 11900k vs 10900k. That is the question.


----------



## Jwick

Nizzen said:


> So what games does perform better with 11900k vs 10900k. That is the question.


honestly i need to some testing to validate my claims, but i guess games like fn, csgo, old indi games etc might do better(i havnt tested so,i have no idea, i am guessing it should perform better than 10900k)


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> 75°C in which test? 75°C max or avg?
> 1.35 V in the BIOS, in idle desktop, min under load or avg under load?


cb r23 for 30 mins (5ghz 1.35 constantly) 
it occasionally peaks to 75°C-80°C on single cores (in HWmonitor) but the average is more like 72-73°C

prime95 small ftts is a different story tho


----------



## Groove2013

Nizzen said:


> So what games does perform better with 11900k vs 10900k. That is the question.


Squad, Tarkov, Arma 3, Insurgency Sandstorm, Microsoft Flight Sim, Post Scriptum, Hell Let Loose, Apex, Valorant, CS GO, Rocket League, Hitman 3 etc.


----------



## Koboldness

Nizzen said:


> So what games does perform better with 11900k vs 10900k. That is the question.


World of Warcraft
(the only game I play)


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> games which scale on single core perf will scale better with 11900k , games which favor multicore will run better on 10 core, and looks like intel will be sticking with 8 performance cores for a while.


Stop coping, you don’t know what you are talking about, hint memory latency and cache size on the 10900k.


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> Squad, Tarkov, Arma 3, Insurgency Sandstorm, Microsoft Flight Sim, Post Scriptum, Hell Let Loose, Apex, Valorant, CS GO, Rocket League, Hitman 3 etc.


So you say 11900k 3866c14 tweaked is performing better in this games than 10900k with 4700c17 tweaked memory?

I played Apex and Hell let loose, but I don't think 11900k can beat 10900k in this games. Not even CS GO.

I don't have time or will to test this, but has anyone actual tested this, or is this only assuming and thinking? Just asking, because I'm genuine interested in hard facts


----------



## Groove2013

Nizzen said:


> So you say 11900k 3866c14 tweaked is performing better in this games than 10900k with 4700c17 tweaked memory?
> 
> I played Apex and Hell let loose, but I don't think 11900k can beat 10900k in this games. Not even CS GO.


Yes, it does, even if the difference is rather marginal.
I was too quick to include CS GO, Valorant, Apex and Rocket League, since 20 MB cache help 10900K to keep up with 11900K in these rather easy to drive small games.


----------



## WebsterRKL

This is where I'm at 5.2Ghz CPU and 5600Mhz CL21 DDR4.

The 11600K is (s)not so good I guess, only SP79, ho hum. 😭

Any advice to reach 5.3Ghz "on air" ?


----------



## Groove2013

Anyways, 11900K is at least not worse than 10900K, in games + has PCI-E 4.0.


----------



## Jwick

YaqY said:


> Stop coping, you don’t know what you are talking about, hint memory latency and cache size on the 10900k.


i said i am assuming but yea forgot abt the cache size that also plays an imp role. I too would like to know the hard facts tbh. also are we all in the same page with which fps i am talking abt(0.1% lows/frame time consistency)


----------



## Neon Knights

WebsterRKL said:


> This is where I'm at 5.2Ghz CPU and 5600Mhz CL21 DDR4.
> 
> The 11600K is (s)not so good I guess, only SP79, ho hum. 😭
> 
> Any advice to reach 5.3Ghz "on air" ?
> 
> View attachment 2522671


No advance sorry but a question : Did you confound CPU VCCIO Voltage with VCCIO MEM OC Voltage ? Because as far as i have understand CPU VCCIO Voltage actually doesn't have to be that high...... ???


----------



## Jwick

true u dont need to have high io , but slightly higher io can help tbh. but mostly u have to increase mem io and sa.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Neon Knights said:


> No advance sorry but a question : Did you confound CPU VCCIO Voltage with VCCIO MEM OC Voltage ? Because as far as i have understand CPU VCCIO Voltage actually doesn't have to be that high...... ???


Maybe I did mix things up, lol. 

Been using the same voltages since June. I realize some are higher than they need to be for daily use - will reduce them as soon as I find out I cannot go any farther with the CPU OC.

I know I increased CPU SA from 1.200v to 1.280v with bios 0903.

So I should drop CPU VCCIO down to about what? lol


----------



## Jwick

honestly auto would do it, but u can bump up to like 1.2v if u want. auto is 1.05v it think


----------



## Jwick

check whether it makes a diff or not


----------



## WebsterRKL

Jwick said:


> true u dont need to have high io , but slightly higher io can help tbh. but mostly u have to increase mem io and sa.


So my CPU VCCIO should be my Mem VCCIO and remove it from Auto? lol I'm so stupid.

OK, thank you will make the changes now...


----------



## WebsterRKL

Does this look better? or is it still wrong?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

3900 is stable.


----------



## WebsterRKL

5866Mhz CL22 DDR4 and 5.1Ghz CPU.
5600Mhz CL21 DDR4 and 5.2Ghz CPU.
5333Mhz CL20 DDR4 and 5.3Ghz CPU.

That's all I can get running on simple air-cooling.

Not that each profile doesn't feel amazing - they ALL do. This build is SCREAMING right now.  Thinking 5600Mhz will become the daily, and the sweet spot on air.

*Here's 5866Mhz ddr4 and 5.1Ghz 11600K:* 

*This is the fastest build EVER for me.  *


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> 5866Mhz CL22 DDR4 and 5.1Ghz CPU.
> 5600Mhz CL21 DDR4 and 5.2Ghz CPU.
> 5333Mhz CL20 DDR4 and 5.3Ghz CPU.
> 
> That's all I can get running on simple air-cooling.
> 
> Not that each profile doesn't feel amazing - they ALL do. This build is SCREAMING right now.  Thinking 5600Mhz will become the daily, and the sweet spot on air.
> 
> *Here's 5866Mhz ddr4 and 5.1Ghz 11600K:
> 
> This is the fastest build EVER for me. *
> 
> View attachment 2522679


Show us a benchmark/game that says this actually is fast 
I ran 5600mhz c19 on my 11900k, but the actual performance was worse than 3733c14 1:1


----------



## WebsterRKL

Nizzen said:


> Show us a benchmark/game that says this actually is fast
> I ran 5600mhz c19 on my 11900k, but the actual performance was worse than 3733c14 1:1


Sorry, I meant my FASTEST build ever for office and statistical apps. lol

It's a home office PC - an extremely fast typewriter. 🤣😂😊

Boot times are 4.5s to 5.0s

Responsiveness with office applications is virtually instantaneous. Thank you Rocket Lake!


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> I meant my FASTEST build yet for office and statistical apps. lol
> 
> It's a home office PC - an extremely fast typewriter. 🤣😂😊
> 
> Boot times are 4.5s to 5.0s
> 
> Responsiveness with office applications is virtually instantaneous. Thank you Rocket Lake!


Yes I love Apex and 11900k myself. Stable as fck compared to my 5950x in term of consistent performance. Updated chipsetdrivers on Dark Hero with 5950x -> 50fps less on Tombraider


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Yes I love Apex and 11900k myself. Stable as fck compared to my 5950x in term of consistent performance. Updated chipsetdrivers on Dark Hero with 5950x -> 50fps less on Tombraider


i noticed some z490 boards took in some windows update on chipset that screwed up cml performance . it only shows in warzone where every component counts.


----------



## Koboldness

Nizzen said:


> So you say 11900k 3866c14 tweaked is performing better in this games than 10900k with 4700c17 tweaked memory?
> 
> I played Apex and Hell let loose, but I don't think 11900k can beat 10900k in this games. Not even CS GO.
> 
> I don't have time or will to test this, but has anyone actual tested this, or is this only assuming and thinking? Just asking, because I'm genuine interested in hard facts


Not gonna argue about it, but what about the cache parity bug in 10900K? Is it not a problem?


----------



## Nizzen

Koboldness said:


> Not gonna argue about it, but what about the cache parity bug in 10900K? Is it not a problem?


Not a problem. Playing only battlefield games. Never a problem.

Minecraft and Warzone/apex isn't for me 
Pushing 50 years old LOL


----------



## geriatricpollywog

3940 is stable








.


----------



## WebsterRKL

The greatest home office typewriter build ever created, I could almost cry. 

_"Let My Machine Talk To Me"_


----------



## geriatricpollywog

3980 Stable

VDIMM 1.55
SA 1.52
IO 1.35
MCIO 1.45


----------



## GeneO

WebsterRKL said:


> Sorry, I meant my FASTEST build ever for office and statistical apps. lol
> 
> It's a home office PC - an extremely fast typewriter. 🤣😂😊
> 
> Boot times are 4.5s to 5.0s
> 
> Responsiveness with office applications is virtually instantaneous. Thank you Rocket Lake!
> 
> View attachment 2522683


Isn't the point of that Humungo Noctua heat-sink is it is passive? LOL.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> 3980 Stable
> 
> VDIMM 1.55
> SA 1.52
> IO 1.35
> MCIO 1.45
> 
> View attachment 2522717


Good work there. I have never thought of adjusting IO voltage other than default 1.05v. Does it help ocing?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Good work there. I have never thought of adjusting IO voltage other than default 1.05v. Does it help ocing?


Not sure. I just fixed all my voltages to a high but safe level in order to see what my max stable daily frequency will be. Next step is to dial down the timings, then dial down the voltages and check for stability again.


----------



## WebsterRKL

GeneO said:


> Isn't the point of that Humungo Noctua heat-sink is it is passive? LOL.


That's how Noctua sells it. But with the addition of a downfiring 140mm Industrial fan on a test bench the NH-P1 does an amazing job with open air and no side panels or top panels.

PUT A DAMN Fan on top - do some thinking for yourself! 

Try it out for 30days on your test bench, if you don't like the inaudible 800rpm fan results while you're working - send it back. 

For a library quiet build I love it, just don't stress test your CPU for over 10min. lolol.

Think out of the box and chassis. lol

This thread should be *test bench only* open air comments. Why the hell are enthusiasts with cases posting results here?


----------



## GeneO

WebsterRKL said:


> That's how Noctua sells it. But with the addition of a downfiring 140mm Industrial fan on a test bench the NH-P1 does an amazing job with open air and no side panels or top panels.
> 
> Try it out for 30days on your test bench, if you don't like the inaudible 800rpm fan results while you're working - send it back.
> 
> For a library quiet build I love it, just don't stress test your CPU for over 10min. lolol.
> 
> Don't jump on the bandwagon, open your mind.


I think I would only get it if it worked well without a fan like advertised.


----------



## WebsterRKL

GeneO said:


> I think I would only get it if it worked well without a fan like advertised.


Whatever dood! Ceep your mind closed down to great engineering and physics if that's how you feel more comfortable. 

If you have a college degree and some education maybe think more open about thermodynamics in very simple terms and try it out with your own personal modifications.

Noctua has to make this part for everyone - that includes 80% morons who will send it back.

It's a heatsink, that's all it is.


----------



## WebsterRKL

5866Mhz CL21 is actually capable on air.

Waaaaat the hell is going on with this i5 11600K $300 processor? 

If I dropped the CPU 5.1GHz OC I might hit 5866Mhz CL20


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> Good work there. I have never thought of adjusting IO voltage other than default 1.05v. Does it help ocing?


it does help a bit.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

It even runs 4000c14 XMP in Gear 1


----------



## Jwick

have u done a testing between max 1t stable vs max 2t stable? which is better? also is there a lot of variation between channels on your cpu?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Jwick said:


> have u done a testing between max 1t stable vs max 2t stable? which is better? also is there a lot of variation between channels on your cpu?


Wow that's a lot of money for your CPU $1300.

Not certain if I would gain anything with a work build.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> have u done a testing between max 1t stable vs max 2t stable? which is better? also is there a lot of variation between channels on your cpu?


I haven’t tested 1T other than booting 3733 and 4000 and getting tons of errors. Do you have timings I can start with?


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Good work there. I have never thought of adjusting IO voltage other than default 1.05v. Does it help ocing?


@safedisk runs 1.25 on everything. 
thought it was some xoc thing.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> I haven’t tested 1T other than booting 3733 and 4000 and getting tons of errors. Do you have timings I can start with?


have u tried running loose timings and then tightening it one by one? i have no idea whether its my cpu or all 11900k//kf (i got a kf) i can do 3920 g1 2t on dr 4000cl14 kit, running cl13 15. havent done full stability yet, but looks stable from the quick stress tests i have done. i cannot post 4000, doesnt matter what i do. cr 1 is weird, one of my channels can post 3900 consistently and ran stable for like an hr(loose timings, just checking how high i can get the freq up) while the other channel cant even post 3733 consistently ( i believe its the same with both the dark and the tachyon, but have to do a bit more testing on the dark). i think 3600 is stable on the other channel, this is a lot of variation........... i dont know whether its a KF thing or all 11900k.also i found 3733+ bclk seems to be more stable than 3866+ bclk. on the dark 3866 is broken. (there is even a star on it)


----------



## Jwick

Jwick said:


> have u tried running loose timings and then tightening it one by one? i have no idea whether its my cpu or all 11900k//kf (i got a kf) i can do 3920 g1 2t on dr 4000cl14 kit, running cl13 15. havent done full stability yet, but looks stable from the quick stress tests i have done. i cannot post 4000, doesnt matter what i do. cr 1 is weird, one of my channels can post 3900 consistently and ran stable for like an hr(loose timings, just checking how high i can get the freq up) while the other channel cant even post 3733 consistently ( i believe its the same with both the dark and the tachyon, but have to do a bit more testing on the dark). i think 3600 is stable on the other channel, this is a lot of variation........... i dont know whether its a KF thing or all 11900k.also i found 3733+ bclk seems to be more stable than 3866+ bclk. on the dark 3866 is broken. (there is even a star on it)


i restarted and it got stuck on 55 (2t 3920) so its not stable, i guess something is wrong with my cpu, i will try do do cl14.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> have u tried running loose timings and then tightening it one by one? i have no idea whether its my cpu or all 11900k//kf (i got a kf) i can do 3920 g1 2t on dr 4000cl14 kit, running cl13 15. havent done full stability yet, but looks stable from the quick stress tests i have done. i cannot post 4000, doesnt matter what i do. cr 1 is weird, one of my channels can post 3900 consistently and ran stable for like an hr(loose timings, just checking how high i can get the freq up) while the other channel cant even post 3733 consistently ( i believe its the same with both the dark and the tachyon, but have to do a bit more testing on the dark). i think 3600 is stable on the other channel, this is a lot of variation........... i dont know whether its a KF thing or all 11900k.also i found 3733+ bclk seems to be more stable than 3866+ bclk. on the dark 3866 is broken. (there is even a star on it)


I have only had the kit a few days and I have shared all the testing I’ve done so far. I haven’t tried loose timings, but I will try tomorrow. I’ll start with XMP in gear 1 and tighten from there.

I also haven’t tested the channels individually or tested the DIMMs individually. Switching the DIMMs and seeing if they perform better seems like a better use of time.

I also haven’t had any weird issues with the setup. So far I can bench up to 4040 with safe voltages and 3980 is the highest that is stable without errors up to 200%. 13-14-14 and 14-14-14 are unstable at 3866 or higher but I’m fine with that. CR1 is unstable and I’m fine with that. Forget about gear 2. I can’t even post 4400, but my kit is not binned for that anyway. It’s happiest at 3866-4000 14-15-15 gear1 CR2 and hates everything else. Within this range, BCLK 103.5 is just as stable as BCLK 100. The ram doesn’t care as long as it’s between 3866 and 4000.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> I have only had the kit a few days and I have shared all the testing I’ve done so far. I haven’t tried loose timings, but I will try tomorrow. I’ll start with XMP in gear 1 and tighten from there.
> 
> I also haven’t tested the channels individually or tested the DIMMs individually. Switching the DIMMs and seeing if they perform better seems like a better use of time.
> 
> I also haven’t had any weird issues with the setup. So far I can bench up to 4040 with safe voltages and 3980 is the highest that is stable without errors up to 200%. 13-14-14 and 14-14-14 are unstable at 3866 or higher but I’m fine with that. CR1 is unstable and I’m fine with that. Forget about gear 2. I can’t even post 4400, but my kit is not binned for that anyway. It’s happiest at 3866-4000 14-15-15 gear1 CR2 and hates everything else. Within this range, BCLK 103.5 is just as stable as BCLK 100. The ram doesn’t care as long as it’s between 3866 and 4000.


gear 2 not being able to go above 4400 isnt the ram, ,its the mobo.IMO


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> I have never thought of adjusting IO voltage other than default 1.05v. Does it help ocing?





Jwick said:


> it does help a bit.





cstkl1 said:


> @safedisk runs 1.25 on everything.
> thought it was some xoc thing.


This is what Luumi said about increasing default 1.05V IO...


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> I have only had the kit a few days and I have shared all the testing I’ve done so far. I haven’t tried loose timings, but I will try tomorrow. I’ll start with XMP in gear 1 and tighten from there.
> 
> I also haven’t tested the channels individually or tested the DIMMs individually. Switching the DIMMs and seeing if they perform better seems like a better use of time.
> 
> I also haven’t had any weird issues with the setup. So far I can bench up to 4040 with safe voltages and 3980 is the highest that is stable without errors up to 200%. 13-14-14 and 14-14-14 are unstable at 3866 or higher but I’m fine with that. CR1 is unstable and I’m fine with that. Forget about gear 2. I can’t even post 4400, but my kit is not binned for that anyway. It’s happiest at 3866-4000 14-15-15 gear1 CR2 and hates everything else. Within this range, BCLK 103.5 is just as stable as BCLK 100. The ram doesn’t care as long as it’s between 3866 and 4000.





Jwick said:


> gear 2 not being able to go above 4400 isnt the ram, ,its the mobo.IMO


its not mobo per say. just the bdie effect on lantency from dr and trp/trcd

just look at 4533c17 dr latency is 42.9ns
4800c17 42ns

4666c17 dr will easily hit higher 41ns


----------



## WebsterRKL

Would I do better by picking up an 11900K high-bin from Siliconlottery?

Got this 11600K SP79 on SL's launch day one for $339. *It's a tier2 11600K*, he had no tier1's.

Although some tier 1 11900Ks did come in and sold out within 2days.

5866Mhz CL21 5.1Ghz CPU "on air" is actually a thing???


----------



## WebsterRKL

I tried the 3866Mhz/14 profile with the b-die kit and it did not FEEL so good with my work applications. I was kinda going? What's all the fuss about? I guess gaming is where the low latency gear 1 really shines.

Thinking I'll sell the Gskill Royal Silver 4800/17 b-die kit for $199.









F4-4800C17D-16GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4800 CL17-19-19-39 1.60V 16GB (2x8GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com





For this build. I cannot wait until October and the *Nvidia RTX A2000 *workstation graphics card launches, wow, will be so happy to get rid of the BLUE AMD Radeon Pro card, sheesh. After 5years, that blue is played. ''

It's tiny, HHHL (half height half length) form factor but also dual-slot, wow so cool!


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> cb r23 for 30 mins (5ghz 1.35 constantly)
> it occasionally peaks to 75°C-80°C on single cores (in HWmonitor) but the average is more like 72-73°C
> 
> prime95 small ftts is a different story tho


can you try Prime95 30.3 build 6?
there you select custom, put 12K min and 12K max, then run FFTs in-place and disable AVX512, AVX2/FMA3 and AVX and let it run for like 5 mins and report what's the temp with 5.0 GHz 1.35V.
5 mins should be more than enough to reach max capacity of Noctua NH-D15.
Thx


----------



## WebsterRKL

Also grabbed some new Wera micro-tools for building and a Sammy 128GB USB for new bios installs.

Not certain where I'm gonna use that PH00? 

Sorry for rambling...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Would I do better by picking up an 11900K high-bin from Siliconlottery?
> 
> Got this 11600K SP79 on SL's launch day one for $339. *It's a tier2 11600K*, he had no tier1's.
> 
> Although some tier 1 11900Ks did come in and sold out within 2days.
> 
> 5866Mhz CL21 5.1Ghz CPU "on air" is actually a thing???
> 
> View attachment 2522778
> 
> 
> View attachment 2522776


I wouldn’t buy anything from Silicon Lottery. If you are going the distance and going for speed, buy an 11900K off the shelf. I think Intel quietly made a revision and the newer chips are Gear1 monsters.

Being able to boot 3866c14 on a 11600K in Gear 1 is impressive nonetheless. If it doesn’t feel fast it might not be stable. Can try running HCI memtest to 200%?

Take back those tools and get an iFixit Mako.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I think Intel quietly made a revision and the newer chips are Gear1 monsters.


Then it must have another stepping.


----------



## Groove2013

@WebsterRKL man, could you please stop posting your build pics?
It's already the 5th time you post the "same" picture, if one checks current and previous page only.
And don't needs to post pics of your USB stick and screw drivers.

Just waste of space and people are forced to scroll more and navigate through more pages for nothing.

Also it's enough to just mention the next GPU you want. No need to post a big pic of it here.


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> I wouldn’t buy anything from Silicon Lottery. If you are going the distance and going for speed, buy an 11900K off the shelf. I think Intel quietly made a revision and the newer chips are Gear1 monsters.
> 
> Being able to boot 3866c14 on a 11600K in Gear 1 is impressive nonetheless. If it doesn’t feel fast it might not be stable. Can try running HCI memtest to 200%?
> 
> Take back those tools and get an iFixit Mako.


Yea, I could boot but 3866/14 didn't seem stable more like sluggish. 

I don't know man with the 4800/17 b-die kit 4800/16 simply feels so responsive to me while working, so I went ahead with 5066/17 and it was even more impressive with daily work. 

I guess I'm a ddr4 Mhz guy and not a low latency guy?

The b-die felt so good at 336tRFC


----------



## WebsterRKL

Groove2013 said:


> @WebsterRKL man, could you please stop posting your build pics?
> It's already the 5th time you post the "same" picture, if one checks current and previous page only.
> And don't needs to post pics of your USB stick and screw drivers.
> 
> Just waste of space and people are forced to scroll more and navigate through more pages for nothing.
> 
> Also it's enough to just mention the next GPU you want. No need to post a big pic of it here.


So sorry, I get carried away with this stuff. 

I guess I'm not really apart of this benching for the sake of numbers group.

It won't happen again...

Thanks for letting me hang out for 2days.


----------



## Groove2013

WebsterRKL said:


> Yea, I could boot but 3866/14 didn't seem stable more like sluggish.
> 
> I don't know man with the 4800/17 b-die kit 4800/16 simply feels so responsive to me while working, so I went ahead with 5066/17 and it was even more impressive with daily work.
> 
> I guess I'm a ddr4 Mhz guy and not a low latency guy?
> 
> The b-die felt so good at 336tRFC
> 
> View attachment 2522791
> 
> 
> View attachment 2522792


oh man.. saying you're running tRFC 336 is enough. No need for 2 *BIG *pics for it.
This starts to really annoy...


----------



## Groove2013

Then also posting useless gifs and screens containing only CPU + GPU specs, which are known.
Several pages of BS and 0 useful info.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> So sorry, I get carried away with this stuff.
> 
> I guess I'm not really apart of this benching for the sake of numbers group.
> 
> It won't happen again...
> 
> Thanks for letting me hang out for 2days.


dude no problem. post away. anyone having issues can just ignore you. 

your postings are lively and interesting.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> your postings are lively and interesting.


Sure, it's interesting to know what he's able to do as RAM frequency vs. timings vs. voltage and also what's the frequency his CPU is doing vs. voltage vs. cooling.
But it's not screwdrivers, USB sticks or screenshots with hardware specs thread here.
5 f*cking times literally the same screenshot of his build in last 2 pages is just waste of space.

I might start posting here my bike, cat screens or sound system or GPU screens that I want to buy.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Sure, it's interesting to know what he's able to do as RAM frequency vs. timings vs. voltage and also what's the frequency his CPU is doing vs. voltage vs. cooling.
> But it's not screwdrivers, USB sticks or screenshots with hardware specs thread here.
> 5 f*cking times literally the same screenshot of his build in last 2 pages is just waste of space.


dude . theres not much on last few pages than gear 1 gear 1 gear 1..

so its fine dude.

heck its also interesting since its a work build.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> heck its also interesting since its a work build.


I 100% agree on that.
But 1 sceen of the build would have been more than enough. No need to post the same screen literally 5 times "in a row".


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> I 100% agree on that.
> But 1 sceen of the build would have been more than enough. No need to post the same screen literally 5 times "in a row".


no harm. 
he just sharing his "excitedness" which actually making me wanna go djr once my rig is back.


----------



## Groove2013

He even edited his post, initially containing only a pic of scredrivers and USB stick, to add a pic of his build there as well, in case other numerous posts with the same pic of his build weren't enough...


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> He even edited his post, initially containing only a pic of scredrivers and USB stick, to add a pic of his build there as well, in case other numerous posts with the same pic of his build weren't enough...


then just ignore dude. if its triggering you

nah

this is some if the issue i am facing


----------



## Groove2013

Back to the topic


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Yea, I could boot but 3866/14 didn't seem stable more like sluggish.
> 
> I don't know man with the 4800/17 b-die kit 4800/16 simply feels so responsive to me while working, so I went ahead with 5066/17 and it was even more impressive with daily work.
> 
> I guess I'm a ddr4 Mhz guy and not a low latency guy?
> 
> The b-die felt so good at 336tRFC
> 
> View attachment 2522791
> 
> 
> View attachment 2522792


Weird, I never encountered anything I would describe as sluggishness, even with default JDEC 2133mhz ram. Did you try running a memory test to make sure there are no errors?


----------



## CallMeODZ




----------



## rhyno

WebsterRKL said:


> So sorry, I get carried away with this stuff.
> 
> I guess I'm not really apart of this benching for the sake of numbers group.
> 
> It won't happen again...
> 
> Thanks for letting me hang out for 2days.


dont worry about that guy, he seems to just be an ******* who cant just scroll down like the rest of us. i thought your post were interesting and you seem nice


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> can you try Prime95 30.3 build 6?
> there you select custom, put 12K min and 12K max, then run FFTs in-place and disable AVX512, AVX2/FMA3 and AVX and let it run for like 5 mins and report what's the temp with 5.0 GHz 1.35V.
> 5 mins should be more than enough to reach max capacity of Noctua NH-D15.
> Thx
> View attachment 2522788














Constantly 5 GHZ on all cores
CPU Fan is running at 60%.
Case Fan is running at 40%.

You want me to do it again with case/cpu Fans @100%?


----------



## WebsterRKL

I absolutely apologize to you brilliant gents.

I didn't mean to upset anyone.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> I absolutely apologize to you brilliant gents.
> 
> I didn't mean to upset anyone.


just be ureself. i like ure post.


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> View attachment 2522809
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Constantly 5 GHZ on all cores
> CPU Fan is running at 60%.
> Case Fan is running at 40%.
> 
> You want me to do it again with case/cpu Fans @100%?


Yes, please.


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 have you tested CPU temp before delidding?
If yes, how much lower is the temp after delidding with your Noctua NH-D15?

Have you used liquid metal between CPU DIE and IHS?
Have you glued the IHS back with silicon or the IHS is simply held in place by the socket retaining mechanism?
Are you using also liquid metal between the IHS and cooler or thermal paste?


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> @yns44 have you tested CPU temp before delidding?
> If yes, how much lower is the temp after delidding with your Noctua NH-D15?
> 
> Have you used liquid metal between CPU DIE and IHS?
> Have you glued the IHS back with silicon or the IHS is simply held in place by the socket retaining mechanism?
> Are you using also liquid metal between the IHS and cooler or thermal paste?



1. I didnt check temps before delid
2. Yes, liquid metal between die and ihs.
3. Yes, glued back with silicone.
4. No liquid metal. Just gelid extreme paste.


I suspect you want to delid yourself as well.
How I did it:


before putting it in the diemate 2, I put the cpu into preheated oven at ~150°C for 3-4 minutes
then I put it to diemate 2 to give the silicone and solder some weakness (pushed the IHS just a few mm towards the capacitors. be careful not the touch / and break them)
then I put the CPU (with slighty moved IHS) into the preheated oven at ~160-170°C for 8-10 minutes.
take it out carefully and lift the IHS with a very small plastic thing (like a creditcard) or razor (but be very careful to not scratch the pcb) off the cpu. you have to hold the cpu with 1 hand when doing it and be careful that the lifted IHS doesnt fall back onto the cpu (cuz thats what happened to me and after all the solder splashed around the die under the ihs).
i cleaned the solder with a razor / plastic card off the IHS / die but ->
dont clean the solder off die / ihs with any razor. use the rockit cool quicksilver. otherwiseits not perfectly flat and I am waiting on my quicksilver delivery and expect temps to go down even further.

My general suspicion: delidding is best done without any delid tool (for soldered cpus) and just into an oven. but youtubers like der8bauer want to sell their product so they use it in the videos.

but for the 11900k its absolutely not necessary. just put it into the oven at 160-170°C, lift the IHS and clean the solder via quicksilver.



btw: I will do the temp test with 100% fans after I finished playing warzone so bear with me a moment


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 don't glue the IHS again, because liquid metal layer you apply is thinner than solder layer that was there before and having silicone between IHS and PCB moves the IHS slightly more away from the DIE, so heat transfer is not the best from DIE to IHS.

Clean the IHS from silicone and don't glue it at all after applying liquid metal.
Just place the CPU into the socket, put the IHS on top of the CPU and hold the IHS in place, so it doesn't slide/move when you close the retention mechanism of the socket and that's it.
Don't worry - nothing will be able to move, once it's locked and you will have slightly better heat transfer from DIE to IHS, because without silicone between IHS and PCB, DIE and IHS will be slightly closer to each other.

Also use liquid metal between Noctua NH-D15 and CPU IHS for even better temp, since Noctua's copper coldplate is nickelplated and won't absorb liquid metal, unlike bare copper.

Once you do everything lexactly like this, you will have up to 15°C lower temp vs. undellided with thermal paste.

Been doing like this for a long long time and works best.


I also have a D15, will also delid, will also use RockitCool Quicksilver to remove solder from DIE and IHS and most probably will use a custom made nickelplated perfectly flat IHS.

But first I need to check Noctua coldplate and original CPU IHS, to see if they're concave or convexe.

If Noctua is convex and CPU IHS is concave, then I keep the original IHS, because the contact between them will be perfect then.

But for waterblocks flat coldplates it's better to buy perfectly flat custom IHS, for better contact/pressure between waterblock coldplate and CPU IHS, for optimal heat transfer.


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44
11900K DIE is very big, similar to LGA2066 CPUs and thus the heat is well spread across the DIE and thus also potentially across the IHS, if you manage to provide best possible contact between DIE and IHS, by delidding and replacing fat and uneven solder layer by thinner and much more even liquid metal layer + having the IHS closer to the DIE, by not using any silicone (no glueing of IHS to PCB).
+ a perfectly flat custom IHS further improving heat transfer from IHS to waterblock coldplate.

All of this is much much cheaper and reduces the temp much more than more radiators and thicker radiators and additional pumps, since all of this is overpriced and useless, as long as there is no good heat transfer from DIE to coldplate (via IHS).

*The worst problem is not as much cooling capacity as INeffective heat transfer.*


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> @yns44 don't glue the IHS again, because liquid metal layer you apply is thinner than solder layer that was there before and having silicone between IHS and PCB moves the IHS slightly more away from the DIE, so heat transfer is not the best from DIE to IHS.
> 
> Clean the IHS from silicone and don't glue it at all after applying liquid metal.
> Just place the CPU into the socket, put the IHS on top of the CPU and hold the IHS in place, so it doesn't slide/move when you close the retention mechanism of the socket and that's it.
> Don't worry - nothing will be able to move, once it's locked and you will have slightly better heat transfer from DIE to IHS, because without silicone between IHS and PCB, DIE and IHS will be slightly closer to each other.
> 
> Also use liquid metal between Noctua NH-D15 and CPU IHS for even better temp, since Noctua's copper coldplate is nickelplated and won't absorb liquid metal, unlike bare copper.
> 
> Once you do everything lexactly like this, you will have up to 15°C lower temp vs. undellided with thermal paste.
> 
> Been doing like this for a long long time and works best.
> 
> 
> I also have a D15, will also delid, will also use RockitCool Quicksilver to remove solder from DIE and IHS and most probably will use a custom made nickelplated perfectly flat IHS.
> 
> But first I need to check Noctua coldplate and original CPU IHS, to see if they're concave or convexe.
> 
> If Noctua is convex and CPU IHS is concave, then I keep the original IHS, because the contact between them will be perfect then.
> 
> But for waterblocks flat coldplates it's better to buy perfectly flat custom IHS, for better contact/pressure between waterblock coldplate and CPU IHS, for optimal heat transfer.




I see. I feel that temps could be bettter as well. the solder is not perfectly removed with my used method so its not entirely flat for sure.

Thanks btw for this method without glue. i know about it and it makes perfect sense. will do it this way when my quicksilver arrived.

and liquid metal between original intel IHS and noctua D15? hmm. I heard that there is chemical reaction thats why I didnt do it.


how do you test if its concave / convex btw?


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> and liquid metal between original intel IHS and noctua D15? hmm. I heard that there is chemical reaction thats why I didnt do it.
> 
> 
> how do you test if its concave / convex btw?


It's only not recommended when the cooler has pure copper coldplate, as copper will absorb liquid metal.
But Noctua coolers have their coldplate nickelplated.
My NH-D15 is used with liquid metal since 2015 I think and 0 problems.

You need something like this.


----------



## Groove2013

Need to put something super flat on top of the cooler coldplate and CPU IHS, maybe a Gillette razor blade and see if there is light that can pass


----------



## Groove2013

If your Noctua coldplate is flat (don't think so), you then better buy a perfectly flat custom IHS specifically for Rocket Lake.
You can order a very very good quality one that is pure copper + nickelplated from *Bartxstore* (polish guy) on facebook.
I think he's present on eBay.
This is how it looks for Rocket Lake.


----------



## Groove2013

But if you have your cooler coldplate convex and buy a perfectly flat custom IHS, heat transfer will be worse than with original concave IHS, because of worse contact/pressure, unless original IHS is also convex, like the cooler, which is much more often on Ryzens and almost never on Intel.


----------



## Groove2013

Original solder is not only thick and uneven, but I've already seen some with air bubbles/pockets.
Poor CPU and its temp as result, if one doesn't delid such poor quality solder sample...


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @yns44
> 11900K DIE is very big, similar to LGA2066 CPUs and thus the heat is well spread across the DIE and thus also potentially across the IHS, if you manage to provide best possible contact between DIE and IHS, by delidding and replacing fat and uneven solder layer by thinner and much more even liquid metal layer + having the IHS closer to the DIE, by not using any silicone (no glueing of IHS to PCB).
> + a perfectly flat custom IHS further improving heat transfer from IHS to waterblock coldplate.
> 
> All of this is much much cheaper and reduces the temp much more than more radiators and thicker radiators and additional pumps, since all of this is overpriced and useless, as long as there is no good heat transfer from DIE to coldplate (via IHS).
> 
> *The worst problem is not as much cooling capacity as INeffective heat transfer.*


pro and cons.
the edge cores are slower than middle cores because this

5.2 on 0,1 and 7,8 are same as middle 3,4,5,6 threads @5.1 on cb20


----------



## cstkl1

@Groove2013 










cores 1,8 on my es sp [email protected] cb20

this cpu prefered core is 0 & 1


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> pro and cons.
> the edge cores are slower than middle cores because this
> 
> 5.2 on 0,1 and 7,8 are same as middle 3,4,5,6 threads @5.1 on cb20


Well, that was only about heat transfer, not about core to core latency.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Well, that was only about heat transfer, not about core to core latency.


i guess but because of the die size and the distance. its suffering from this.


----------



## Groove2013

We can't reduce CPU cores spacing to like it was on 9900K, but we can improve heat transfer.


----------



## Groove2013

Delid, no silicone/reglueing, no thermal paste and perfectly flat nickelplated custom IHS.

*Up to 15°C lower temp without cooling upgrades...*


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> i guess but because of the die size and the distance. its suffering from this.


In games it's not slower than 10900K and it has PCI-E 4.0.
It's enough as arguments, for me.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Delid, no silicone/reglueing, no thermal paste and perfectly flat nickelplated custom IHS.
> 
> *Up to 15°C lower temp without cooling upgrades...*


chances of killing a smd too high


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> Yes, please.












this is 5 min into your desired prime 95 test.
for some reason my cpu fans only spin up to ~1200 rpm (my D15 is pretty old. maybe thats why?)

so you say I should be using liquid metal between my die and the D15?
What if they dont match perfectly (concave etc.)?
What if a bit leaks and destroy my other hardware? :O

How much is the difference (in your experience) from good thermal paste to liquid metal?


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> chances of killing a smd too high


yea not worth it imo. Just get a cheap window AC and make it a DIY chiller, brute force method. And get an optimus sig v2 block.


----------



## Jwick

my core to core delta is like 15c which isnt good but it is what it is. (stock no delid)


----------



## Jwick

yns44 said:


> View attachment 2522835
> 
> 
> this is 5 min into your desired prime 95 test.
> for some reason my cpu fans only spin up to ~1200 rpm (my D15 is pretty old. maybe thats why?)
> 
> so you say I should be using liquid metal between my die and the D15?
> What if they dont match perfectly (concave etc.)?
> What if a bit leaks and destroy my other hardware? :O
> 
> How much is the difference (in your experience) from good thermal paste to liquid metal?


your delta is really good.


----------



## SPL Tech

How the f you guys hitting 5.2 without melting your die on 11700k?? I am at 1.41vcore for 5.0 and I am hitting 100C and that's on a huge waterblock with 3 radiators and the best TIM on the market. Anything over 5.0 is impossible as the computer just shuts off from over temp. How the hell do you cool this thing?


----------



## Jwick

SPL Tech said:


> How the f you guys hitting 5.2 without melting your die on 11700k?? I am at 1.41vcore for 5.0 and I am hitting 100C and that's on a huge waterblock with 3 radiators and the best TIM on the market. Anything over 5.0 is impossible as the computer just shuts off from over temp. How the hell do you cool this thing?


thats the vid reading bro. and only pulling 200w.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

SPL Tech said:


> How the f you guys hitting 5.2 without melting your die on 11700k?? I am at 1.41vcore for 5.0 and I am hitting 100C and that's on a huge waterblock with 3 radiators and the best TIM on the market. Anything over 5.0 is impossible as the computer just shuts off from over temp. How the hell do you cool this thing?


Are you just venting or are you going to show a HWInfo64 screenshot while running a benchmark lime Cinebench?


----------



## Jwick

SPL Tech said:


> How the f you guys hitting 5.2 without melting your die on 11700k?? I am at 1.41vcore for 5.0 and I am hitting 100C and that's on a huge waterblock with 3 radiators and the best TIM on the market. Anything over 5.0 is impossible as the computer just shuts off from over temp. How the hell do you cool this thing?


which stress stress test are u running, cinabench r20 aint hard to run...... i can run 5.4 1.525v set in bios. temp 84c...1.47v load, but its on the dark soooo, is it die sense?


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> What if they dont match perfectly (concave etc.)?
> What if a bit leaks and destroy my other hardware? :O
> 
> How much is the difference (in your experience) from good thermal paste to liquid metal?


If cooler coldplate and CPU IHS don't match, depending on by how much, temp will be several °C higher.
Nothing will leak, if you put just enough of liquid metal and not overdose.
Difference vs. thermal paste is few °C.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> yea not worth it imo. Just get a cheap window AC and make it a DIY chiller, brute force method. And get an optimus sig v2 block.


I think you don't understand it fully.
You can't lower the temp by simply cooling better what isn't even transfered to the cooler in the first place.

It's like a heavy rock, that you could eventually lift, just if it could fit in your hands.

No matter how strong you are, you won't be able to lift that rock, until it fits in your hands.

Or you will anyways train to get stronger to lift a specific weight, despite still being unable to lift because of the size, not of the weight, since it simply still won't fit in your hands?

Hope this analogy is better understandable.


----------



## Groove2013

If your cooling can cool 1000 W, but only like 150 W can be transfered to it, it even being able to cool 100.000.000 W won't help.

As again - it's not cooler, but heat transfer to it being a problem.


----------



## Groove2013

Brute-forcing, you can buy 10 pumps and 20 MO-RAs and the temp still won't be good.

You can't dissipate heat you don't receive...


----------



## Jwick

i understand what u are trying to say, but u are forgetting about what "BRUTE FORCE" mean. if your principle is correct then me pulling my chiller wont do anything compared to my custom loop which is wrong. since delidding is risky, the only way u can cool the chip better is to "BRUTE FORCE".. meaning reduce water temp...... why did i say get an optimus block. its because anti freeze doesnt transfer heat as effective as water, and the colder u go, lower the heat transfer, so if u are using a block which doesnt have enough surface area(fins),the amount of heat which can transfer per second will be lower unless u brute force it with more pumps.optimus has the finest fins in the world and the distance between the cold plate which contacts the ihs and the fins are very very low which improves thermals as well.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Brute-forcing, you can buy 10 pumps and 20 MO-RAs and the temp still won't be good.
> 
> You can't dissipate heat you don't receive...


yes because the limitation there is ambient temp and the heat transfer between the die and the ihs.. but an optimus block may help couple of degrees depending on the block used.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> i understand what u are trying to say, but u are forgetting about what "BRUTE FORCE" mean. if your principle is correct then me pulling my chiller wont do anything compared to my custom loop which is wrong. since delidding is risky, the only way u can cool the chip better is to "BRUTE FORCE".. meaning reduce water temp...... why did i say get an optimus block. its because anti freeze doesnt transfer heat as effective as water, and the colder u go, lower the heat transfer, so if u are using a block which doesnt have enough surface area(fins),the amount of heat which can transfer per second will be lower unless u brute force it with more pumps.optimus has the finest fins in the world and the distance between the cold plate which contacts the ihs and the fins are very very low which improves thermals as well.


Agree with this.
Also if you're lucky enough, the IHS of your specific sample isn't as concave as it might be so often on majority of Intel CPUs.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> i understand what u are trying to say, but u are forgetting about what "BRUTE FORCE" mean. if your principle is correct then me pulling my chiller wont do anything compared to my custom loop which is wrong. since delidding is risky, the only way u can cool the chip better is to "BRUTE FORCE".. meaning reduce water temp...... why did i say get an optimus block. its because anti freeze doesnt transfer heat as effective as water, and the colder u go, lower the heat transfer, so if u are using a block which doesnt have enough surface area(fins),the amount of heat which can transfer per second will be lower unless u brute force it with more pumps.optimus has the finest fins in the world and the distance between the cold plate which contacts the ihs and the fins are very very low which improves thermals as well.


I hate to disappoint, but I tested EK and Optimus blocks back to back and their performance was identical.

EK Supremacy EVO









Optimus Signature


----------



## WebsterRKL

Pure Love at 3100 lumens - high intensity.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> I hate to disappoint, but I tested EK and Optimus blocks back to back and their performance was identical.
> 
> EK Supremacy EVO
> View attachment 2522849
> 
> 
> Optimus Signature
> View attachment 2522850


was it a sig v2? also the difference will be more visible going higher voltage/higher power. also going colder and running anti freeze might show a bigger difference between both blocks.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> was it a sig v2? also the difference will be more visible going higher voltage/higher power. also going colder and running anti freeze might show a bigger difference between both blocks.


Yes, Signature V2. The CPU was pulling 277w for 45 minutes for each test. They have identical performance and I’m not surprised.


----------



## Jwick

277w is low imo, have u tried running 350-380w?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> 277w is low imo, have u tried running 350-380w?


No, even at 5.4ghz it only pulls 340w. Why would I pull 350-380 without an LN2 pot? That sounds unsafe and I’ve never heard of any CPU using that much power. And the performance of both blocks would scale with the heat equally.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> No, even at 5.4ghz it only pulls 340w. Why would I pull 350-380 without an LN2 pot? That sounds unsafe and I’ve never heard of any CPU using that much power. And the performance of both blocks would scale with the heat equally.


i was pulling 370w , 1.34v vr out(tachyon). i was pulling abt 250 amps, i will check with my screen shot once again to confirm.. 5.1/47 no ht, small extreme avx 2 ( avx2 hotter than avx 512). temp 96-98c hottest core, which is core 3. coldest is core 0 its abt i think 82 or something, i will double check and tell, ran it for 3hrs. this is the real stability test and no its not unsafe IMO.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> i was pulling 370w , 1.34v vr out(tachyon). i was pulling abt 250 amps, i will check with my screen shot once again to confirm.. 5.1/47 no ht, small extreme avx 2 ( avx2 hotter than avx 512). temp 96-98c hottest core, which is core 3. coldest is core 0 its abt i think 82 or something, i will double check and tell, ran it for 3hrs. this is the real stability test and no its not unsafe IMO.


Omg that is hardly a normal use case. Now I feel better about pushing 340w for 1 minute running R20.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i understand what u are trying to say, but u are forgetting about what "BRUTE FORCE" mean. if your principle is correct then me pulling my chiller wont do anything compared to my custom loop which is wrong. since delidding is risky, the only way u can cool the chip better is to "BRUTE FORCE".. meaning reduce water temp...... why did i say get an optimus block. its because anti freeze doesnt transfer heat as effective as water, and the colder u go, lower the heat transfer, so if u are using a block which doesnt have enough surface area(fins),the amount of heat which can transfer per second will be lower unless u brute force it with more pumps.optimus has the finest fins in the world and the distance between the cold plate which contacts the ihs and the fins are very very low which improves thermals as well.


you are cooling the water and transfering heat

he is talking about transferring heat. you can only do so much and then its all about ambient temp or in ure case water temp. cause the inefficiency in transferring heat

rkl only increase water temp by 1-2c only

in comparison a 400w rtx 3080 can increase it by 10-15c

optimus block is overrated.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> Omg that is hardly a normal use case. Now I feel better about pushing 340w for 1 minute running R20.


u are not the first person to say that to me. c20 is not a good stress test, the hottest stress test is small extreme avx 2 then followed by avx 512 and then linpack extreme. linpack is like 10c colder than small extreme avx 2.


----------



## SPL Tech

0451 said:


> Are you just venting or are you going to show a HWInfo64 screenshot while running a benchmark lime Cinebench?












There you go. 1.41v @ 5 GHZ. Max temp 103C on 5 min of Intel Burn Test. ***in hoooooot!. I dont see how you guys are running cooler. There is literally no CPU cooling option more effective than what I have short of LN2 or an ass load of radiators and fans, which wouldent even help that much more.


----------



## Jwick

1.41v in bios? also your power consumption is low really low, and which load line? try running occt small extreme avx 2 .


----------



## cstkl1

just remember folks its not wattage that kills cpu

its current


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> you are cooling the water and transfering heat
> 
> he is talking about transferring heat. you can only do so much and then its all about ambient temp or in ure case water temp. cause the inefficiency in transferring heat
> 
> rkl only increase water temp by 1-2c only
> 
> in comparison a 400w rtx 3080 can increase it by 10-15c


yea i got that, his definition of brute force and mine were different... well water temp doesnt need to increase 10-15c if u have good flow/rads/fans.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> just remember folks its not wattage that kills cpu
> 
> its current current


intel spec is 245 amps so and this is the "spec" so technically u can go higher.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> u are not the first person to say that to me. c20 is not a good stress test, the hottest stress test is small extreme avx 2 then followed by avx 512 and then linpack extreme. linpack is like 10c colder than small extreme avx 2.


You don’t need to torture your CPU at 250A to find out where it’s stable. That will kill or degrade it. If I can do P95 small fft AVX off at 270w and 70C at 5.3 then I know the CPU is stable there.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> You don’t need to torture your CPU at 250A to find out where it’s stable. That will kill or degrade it. If I can do P95 small fft AVX off at 270w and 70C at 5.3 then I know the CPU is stable there.


naa u are not going to degrade it do not run avx off stress test.... unless u are going to disable avx in the bios which isnt good. also u are going to stress test it for hrs not months continuous to degrade it, and running 245amps is the spec so u should be safe in theory.


----------



## SPL Tech

Jwick said:


> 1.41v in bios? also your power consumption is low really low, and which load line? try running occt small extreme avx 2 .


Im running adaptive + offset so BIOS is like -0.08v offset. but yes BIOS and CPU-Z report 1.41v. LLC is level 2 which basicaly means the voltage doesent go up or down. just says straight. AVX would shut my computer off entirely. I am getting 100C non-AVX. It would never handle AVX without an offset of at least -200 Mhz. Even gaming temps can get as high as mid 80s, although mostly lower 80s or high 70s.


----------



## Jwick

looking at the power consumption, thats low, i havnt done intel burn test so i dont know how it runs. so it might just be your cooling system.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

SPL Tech said:


> View attachment 2522854
> 
> 
> There you go. 1.41v @ 5 GHZ. Max temp 103C on 5 min of Intel Burn Test. ***in hoooooot!. I dont see how you guys are running cooler. There is literally no CPU cooling option more effective than what I have short of LN2 or an ass load of radiators and fans, which wouldent even help that much more.


Can you show all tabs like I did in post #4471?


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> yea i got that, his definition of brute force and mine were different... well water temp doesnt need to increase 10-15c if u have good flow/rads/fans.


was talking about da basic one 360 rad comparison of the inefficiency of heat transfer from cpu. delid skylake-X was one if the rare moments i saw cpu effecting water temps but thats most likely the fivr.


----------



## Jwick

Extreme Delid | Facebook -if u want a professional to delid and replace ihs. he does 11th gen as well. it will cost 100$ for delidding a 11900k and replacing it with a custom nickel bartx store ihs.


----------



## Groove2013

Received my 2nd 11900K sample right now.
Same SP59 after updating to 1007 as my 1st sample.

But at least I could boot with 3866 MHz 18-38 and the rest of settings are from @cstkl1.
The previous sample could only boot with max 3733 MHz.

Sa and mem io also 1.45 V, like for first sample.
Maybe it's because I now also set SA LLC to 3 and CPU IO as well from default 1.05 to 1.45 V. Don't know.

But despite same SP, it shows slightly lower voltage in the BIOS than the previous sample.

Will test it all in 3 hours.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Received my 2nd 11900K sample right now.
> Same SP59 after updating to 1007 as my 1st sample.
> 
> But at least I could boot with 3866 MHz 18-38 and the rest of settings are from @cstkl1.
> The previous sample could only boot with max 3733 MHz.
> 
> Sa and mem io also 1.45 V, like for first sample.
> Maybe it's because I now also set SA LLC to 3 and CPU IO as well from default 1.05 to 1.45 V. Don't know.
> 
> But despite same SP, it shows slightly lower voltage in the BIOS than the previous sample.
> 
> Will test it all in 3 hours.


Which batch is it?


----------



## Groove2013

3920 MHz also booted with 18-38 BCLK 98 MHz and 133 MHz for RAM.

Can't check now - on the way to the doctor.
Later, in few hours.
Will see if more than 3920 MHz possible.


----------



## Groove2013

Maybe the previous 11900K could also do more than just 3733 MHz, but back then I haven't tried to upper CPU IO up from default 1.05 V.

And I also have the rest on default/auto.
Who knows if it still will want to do such RAM frequencies, once I set 5.0 or 5.2 GHz and higher than default cache frequency.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> 3920 MHz also booted with 18-38 BCLK 98 MHz and 133 MHz for RAM.
> 
> Can't check now - on the way to the doctor.
> Later, in few hours.
> Will see if more than 3920 MHz possible.


Nice! I thought the newer chips were better.


----------



## Groove2013

Tried 4000 MHz and not possible.
Will try to stabilise 39XX MHz and I think I'll keep this chip.
Who knows, maybe the 3rd won't be able to do 3866+ MHz like this one.


----------



## Groove2013

This is what I've done to the 1st 11900K to not scratch it with the cooler and/or socket retention mechanism, but enough to enter the BIOS to see SP and see if it can boot 3866 MHz )))


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> This is what I've done to the 1st 11900K to not scratch it with the cooler and/or socket retention mechanism, but enough to enter the BIOS to see SP and see if it can boot 3866 MHz )))
> View attachment 2522869


SP is a lie. No wonder nobody else can do 5.4. They are tossing all the good SP50


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> SP is a lie. No wonder nobody else can do 5.4. They are tossing all the good SP50


I got rid of it mainly because of 3733 MHz only.
But since I haven't tried CPU IO higher than default 1.05 V and SA LLC was at default, who knows whether the 1st one could also do more than 3733 MHz )))

Anyways, SP is not really accurate, since the 2nd chip shows a lower vcore than the 1st one, but SP reading is still identical to the 1st chip, even after reseting the BIOS and updating to it again via flashback.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> I got rid of it mainly because of 3733 MHz only.
> But since I haven't tried CPU IO higher than default 1.05 V and SA LLC was at default, who knows whether the 1st one could also do more than 3733 MHz )))
> 
> Anyways, SP is not really accurate, since the 2nd chip shows a lower vcore than the 1st one, but SP reading is still identical to the 1st chip, even after reseting the BIOS and updating to it again via flashback.


Use the same settings you used for your 3733 chip and see if it boots to 3920.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Use the same settings you used for your 3733 chip and see if it boots to 3920.


Forgot to make a screen of them )))

Returning home and will see whether more than 3920 MHz is possible or not.
4000 no, but higher than 3920 simply couldn't try, since I had to go to an appointment.


----------



## Groove2013

What was really surprising for me is that when I ran Karhu RAM Test for 3733 CL14 1.55 vdimm and 1.45 sa/io while having an old 120 mm Noctua blowing fresh air from the top of the case directly on RAM sticks sides, max RAM temp was slightly lower than 40°C with 24°C room temp.

But what I could see is that this 120 mm old Noctua case fan blowing on RAM sticks sides was much better than a dedicated fan that is usually mounted really on top of RAM sticks.
Because on the sides of Trident Z, there are openings, through which one can slightly see RAM PCB and memory chips, so air goes right into these openings and exits through same openings on the other side of the sticks.

While when you have dedicated fan(s) blowing air right on to of RAM sticks, it blows onto RGB lightning, which doesn't help much, if at all.


----------



## Groove2013

Lol, couldn't boot 4000, then pressed F1 because OC failed, but then tried to exit the BIOS without changing anything and it booted and I could run 15 mins Karhu RAM Test before stopping it without any errors, with 18-38 timings and rest on auto...


----------



## Groove2013

3996 MHz boots no problems (BCLK 99.90)


----------



## Groove2013

Don't understand how it fails to boot, but when you press F1 and go in the BIOS and then simply exit the BIOS and it then boots and works with RAM test...


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Don't understand how it fails to but, but when you press F1 and go in the BIOS and then simply exit the BIOS and it then boots and works with RAM test...


it will be unstable afterwards, the cpu jbaited u. are u running 1t or 2t? also u need to do multiple cold start with stress tests to make sure its consistent. i have no idea why but certain freq can post but not consistent and it wont error out in the first 15m.even BZ agrees to this, the imc or something has some memory loss............. which is annoying and u cant do anything abt it..........


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> are u running 1t or 2t? also u need to do multiple cold start with stress tests to make sure its consistent. i have no idea why but certain freq can post but not consistent and it wont error out in the first 15m.


Auto. Must be 2T then?
Everything auto, except 18-38 primary timings.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Auto. Must be 2T then?
> Everything auto, except 18-38 primary timings.


the tachyon auto's to 2t the dark auto's to 1t so i donno...


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Auto. Must be 2T then?
> Everything auto, except 18-38 primary timings.


imo u dont need to make the timings that loose for gear, just do 16 20 20 40 tcwl 16


----------



## Groove2013

I'm just checking what RAM frequency is possible. Timings later.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> I'm just checking what RAM frequency is possible. Timings later.


yea i understand but u dont need to go 18-38 for checking freq on gear 1


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> What was really surprising for me is that when I ran Karhu RAM Test for 3733 CL14 1.55 vdimm and 1.45 sa/io while having an old 120 mm Noctua blowing fresh air from the top of the case directly on RAM sticks sides, max RAM temp was slightly lower than 40°C with 24°C room temp.
> 
> But what I could see is that this 120 mm old Noctua case fan blowing on RAM sticks sides was much better than a dedicated fan that is usually mounted really on top of RAM sticks.
> Because on the sides of Trident Z, there are openings, through which one can slightly see RAM PCB and memory chips, so air goes right into these openings and exits through same openings on the other side of the sticks.
> 
> While when you have dedicated fan(s) blowing air right on to of RAM sticks, it blows onto RGB lightning, which doesn't help much, if at all.
> View attachment 2522870


its better for air to blow through the sides of the memory sticks instead of the top.Also if u want to get better heat sinks for waterblocks and to use it for air buy barrow, they are really good and cstkl recommended me that. use 0.5mm thermal pad for DR on both side.


----------



## Groove2013

99.85 MHz BCLK (3996 MHz) worked for 9 consecutive cold boots.


Jwick said:


> its better for air to blow through the sides of the memory sticks instead of the top.Also if u want to get better heat sinks for waterblocks and to use it for air buy barrow, they are really good and cstkl recommended me that. use 0.5mm thermal pad for DR on both side.


Will stay on air, with original ones. But thanks anyways.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> 99.85 MHz BCLK (3996 MHz) worked for 9 consecutive cold boots.
> 
> Will stay on air, with original ones. But thanks anyways.


thats a good chip then is it on 2t? also raising io aux to 1.45v is not needed imo for gear 1. under 1.4v is good..


----------



## Groove2013

2T, yes.


----------



## Jwick

try running 1t and see how far u can push, if u can run 3900mhz cl14 1t, that will be better than 3996 2t imo.


----------



## Groove2013

Will do.


----------



## Jwick

also if u have time, check channel/dimm variation. i have heard people complaining that apex have a lot of dimm variation and i dont think its the mobo, cause both my dark and tachyon have the same variation. i think its the channel variation but i might be wrong.the variation was much larger on 1t..


----------



## Groove2013

Could boot 3920 MHz 1T (BCLK 98 MHz).
Will see if more possible or if 3920 MHz 1T works each consecutive boot.


----------



## Groove2013

Booted 4 times 3920 MHz 1T.


----------



## Jwick

wow.. 18-22 still? new batches are improved mmmm. bro i cant even consistently post 3733 on both dim 1t, my chip is a joke.its core in strong same with cache, imc dodo. well one of the channel/dimm can post 3900 consistently 1t other one cant post consistently 3733 1t. i have no idea why. maybe its because i have a KF? maybe ?


----------



## Groove2013

18-18-38. No idea.


----------



## Jwick

thats a good chip, take care of it 🙂. have u tried going 1.5v sa?


----------



## Groove2013

No, 1.45 sa, cpu io and mem io now and llc 3 for sa.
Don't know what's really safe on air for CPU and air for RAM for 24/7 for like 4 years.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> No, 1.45 sa, cpu io and mem io now and llc 3 for sa.
> Don't know what's really safe on air for CPU and air for RAM for 24/7 for like 4 years.


intel spec is 1.52v soooo.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> No, 1.45 sa, cpu io and mem io now and llc 3 for sa.
> Don't know what's really safe on air for CPU and air for RAM for 24/7 for like 4 years.


going that high io mem/aux might show some regression. also might be better to stay under 1.4v io and io aux/mem, usually io cannot tolerate high voltages like the SA can, thats what people say for 10th gen and prev, but i dont know abt 11th gen and its split io. better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## Groove2013

Can anybody else say what max io mem and io cpu can be considered as safe for 24/7 on air like 4 years?


----------



## Groove2013

I abandoned 1T, since even at 3866 it's not possible to stabilise it.
Will see how high in frequency I can go with 2T.
I have 2x16 GB sticks.


----------



## sugi0lover

testing IMC before moving to dr 4000 CL14 32GB Ram kit soon 

Memory OC : 4100Mhz-13-13-13-14-240-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.70v : IO 1.05v : SA 1.60v : Mem OC IO 1.44v
















Memory OC : 4070Mhz-13-13-13-14-240-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.70v : IO 1.05v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.37v


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> I abandoned 1T, since even at 3866 it's not possible to stabilise it.
> Will see how high in frequency I can go with 2T.
> I have 2x16 GB sticks.


1t is that hard huh.mmm. did 3866 pass with loose timings? or were u running cl14?


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Can anybody else say what max io mem and io cpu can be considered as safe for 24/7 on air like 4 years?


on the dark the max limit i can go on both those voltages without enabling extreme voltage mode is 1.55v for sa/io. i dont know whether evga decided thats the max safe ambient voltage, but the dark has abt 30mv of droop for the sa.


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> testing IMC before moving to dr 4000 CL14 32GB Ram kit soon
> 
> Memory OC : 4100Mhz-13-13-13-14-240-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.70v : IO 1.05v : SA 1.60v : Mem OC IO 1.44v
> 
> View attachment 2522894
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory OC : 4070Mhz-13-13-13-14-240-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.70v : IO 1.05v : SA 1.52v : Mem OC IO 1.37v
> 
> View attachment 2522895


have u tried raising normal io?


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> have u tried raising normal io?


Yes, but no difference to me!


----------



## Groove2013

Ok, mine does 3984 MHz 14-20-20-40 2T for 2x16 GB.


----------



## Jwick

have u tried stick swap between dimm? it may or may not help.


----------



## Groove2013

No. Will do. Thanks to remind me of this 😉
RAM is 2x16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP.


----------



## Groove2013

I'm confused, to say the least...

B1 slot works much faster than A1 slot on my Apex 13.

But the stick X in slot B1 that outperforms stick Y there, loses to it once moved from slot B1 to A1.

However, the stick Y in slot A1 that outperforms stick X there, loses to it once moved from slot A1 to slot B1.

I thought that if one stick is better than the other, it should be better than the other no matter the slots you place them in.
Not like one is better than the other in this slot and the other is better than this one in that slot...


----------



## Groove2013

Why one stick doesn't work better than the other in all slots, but just in one of the slots and in the other slot it's not better anymore, but even worse...
And same for the 2nd stick...

What's the logic behind...


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013I know from testing on z490 Apex and z590 Apex and z590 Hero with 3 different 11900k chan a was 133-266mhz slower than chan b for gear 1 testing.


----------



## Groove2013

Stick 1: 4001-4002 MHz slot A1 and 4053-4054 MHz slot B1 Windows boot 5 times in a row.
Stick 2: 3997-3998 MHz slot A1 and 4062-4062 MHz Windows boot 5 times in a row...


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013I know from testing on z490 Apex and z590 Apex and z590 Hero with 3 different 11900k chan a was 133-266mhz slower than chan b for gear 1 testing.


Ok, but why? A1 is physically closer to the CPU than B1...

Also why is one stick not always better than the other, in all slots, but only better than the other stick only in a specific slot, but otherwise worse in another slot?

My brain needs a rest...


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> Stick 1: 4001-4002 MHz slot A1 and 4053-4054 MHz slot B1 Windows boot 5 times in a row.
> Stick 2: 3997-3998 MHz slot A1 and 4062-4062 MHz Windows boot 5 times in a row...


So you are only seeing a 50mhz difference approx between channels? that is pretty impressive.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> Also why is one stick not always better than the other, in all slots, but only better than the other stick only in a specific slot, but otherwise worse in another slot?


For me it's like you have a mobo and bin CPUs.
CPU X was found to require lower voltage or doing higher frequency than CPU Y.
And normally it will require lower voltage or do higher frequency than CPU Y on all mobos.
Not that one mobo one sample is better and on the other mobo it's the CPU sample that's better?


----------



## Jwick

its not the board, its the cpu. and u should be happy for having 50mhz variation between channels. i have 300-400mhz what is that all abt. on both mobo(1T)


----------



## Jwick

groove try 1t and swap sticks, is there a bigger difference?


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> I'm confused, to say the least...
> 
> B1 slot works much faster than A1 slot on my Apex 13.
> 
> But the stick X in slot B1 that outperforms stick Y there, loses to it once moved from slot B1 to A1.
> 
> However, the stick Y in slot A1 that outperforms stick X there, loses to it once moved from slot A1 to slot B1.
> 
> I thought that if one stick is better than the other, it should be better than the other no matter the slots you place them in.
> Not like one is better than the other in this slot and the other is better than this one in that slot...


might be something to do with memory-imc training between dim.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> its not the board, its the cpu. and u should be happy for having 50mhz variation between channels


But still, why B1 that physically is not as close to the CPU as A1, does a 50 MHz higher frequency?
Shouldn't it be the opposite? 50 MHz more for the slot closest to the CPU?

And how can one stick be better than the other, but only as long as it's in a specific slot?


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> But still, why B1 that physically is not as close to the CPU as A1, does a 50 MHz higher frequency?
> Shouldn't it be the opposite? 50 MHz more for the slot closest to the CPU?
> 
> And how can one stick be better than the other, but only as long as it's in a specific slot?


imc is split into two channels, A and B , B might be better than A, so its not abt the dimm being close anymore.


----------



## bscool

It is normal for the closer dim to clock a little lower. Electrical noise as far I know. I know in the past comparing dim slots on z370, z390 z490 etc it was much closer(133mhz or less) than when I started checking using 11th gen CPU(133 to 266mhz). So I think it has more variance on 11thgen in gear 1. Testing gear 2 it is much closer from the testing I have done.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> But still, why B1 that physically is not as close to the CPU as A1, does a 50 MHz higher frequency?
> Shouldn't it be the opposite? 50 MHz more for the slot closest to the CPU?
> 
> And how can one stick be better than the other, but only as long as it's in a specific slot?


the second question i have no answer, does it post consistently? if it does then maybe imc-memory training.


----------



## Jwick

bscool said:


> It is normal for the closer dim to clock a little lower. Electrical noise as far I know.


thats also there, but thats mostly applicable for daisy chain , for xoc 2 dimm boards with higher layer count i dont think electrical noise is as much as a concern.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> groove try 1t and swap sticks, is there a bigger difference?


~50 MHz difference on my Apex 13 is indeed with 2T.
I won't test with 1T to see if frequency difference between slots is even bigger, since I won't be able to use 1T when both sticks installed.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> ~50 MHz difference on my Apex 13 are indeed with 2T. I won't test with 1T to see if frequency difference slots is even bigger, since I won't be able to use 1T when both sticks installed.


if u have time, just for science purpose u can test it out.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> the second question i have no answer, does it post consistently? if it does then maybe imc-memory training.


Yes, both sticks individually posted or not consistently in specific slots at a specific frequencies.


----------



## Groove2013

Ok, could boot into Windows 8 times in a row and 20 mins of stress with Karhu RAM Test without errors with BCLK 99.65 MHz and thus 3987 MHz 14-20-20-40-2T for 2x16 GB B-DIE.

Will tighten timings for this frequency then.

CPU-Z for some reason shows BCLK 99.63, instead of 99.65 MHz, like set in the BIOS.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 Do you have round trip latency enabled? If not try that as it is worth enabling and running a slightly lower clock in my opinion verse off and higher clock.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 Do you have round trip latency enabled? If not try that as it is worth enabling and running a slightly lower clock in my opinion verse off and higher clock.


It's enabled.
Also now could boot in Windows several times with 3987 MHz 14-14-14-28-2T.


----------



## Groove2013

10 MHz or less difference between both sticks in terms of what's bootable.


----------



## Jwick

what are your RTL?


----------



## Groove2013

Everything auto now.
Will look for primary stable timings first.


----------



## Jwick

on auto what is it? like using the asrock timing table.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I'm going for 4000 stable DR at safe voltages. I had 1 error at 190% 












Groove2013 said:


> Ok, could boot into Windows 8 times in a row and 20 mins of stress with Karhu RAM Test without errors with BCLK 99.65 MHz and thus 3987 MHz 14-20-20-40-2T for 2x16 GB B-DIE.
> 
> Will tighten timings for this frequency then.
> 
> CPU-Z for some reason shows BCLK 99.63, instead of 99.65 MHz, like set in the BIOS.


Just waking up and checking on your results. Impressive! Single or dual rank?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I'm going for 4000 stable DR at safe voltages. I had 1 error at 190%
> 
> View attachment 2522927
> 
> 
> 
> Just waking up and checking on your results. Impressive! Single or dual rank?


Dual rank, yes.
But nothing impressive, since it's only what's bootable. Not more.

Now testing to first find the min stable RAM frequency.
Primary timings very high, just in case and the rest on auto.

Once I will find a stable RAM frequency, I will start to look for min stable timings.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Dual rank, yes.
> But nothing impressive, since it's only what's bootable. Not more.
> 
> Now testing to first find the min stable RAM frequency.
> Primary timings very high, just in case and the rest on auto.
> 
> Once I will find a stable RAM frequency, I will start to look for min stable timings.


I’m going for highest stable bandwidth which looks to be around 69 MB/s in HCI memtest


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I’m going for highest stable bandwidth which looks to be around 69 MB/s in HCI memtest


Well, bandwidth is a mix of frequency and timings.


----------



## Jwick

just try to get the highest gflops on linpack extreme. linpack scales with bandwidth and latency.


----------



## Arni90

Jwick said:


> just try to get the highest gflops on linpack extreme. linpack scales with bandwidth and latency.


For Linpack, your best bet is probably DJR or crazy good SR B-die in gear 2


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> just try to get the highest gflops on linpack extreme. linpack scales with bandwidth and latency.


With 10900K, I used to try get the highest gflops. I could go over 700 Gflops with 4700 17 17 1T HT On, but no video or pic left.
With 11900K, it seems like nobody wants to do it anymore.

The below is my old days with 10900K.


----------



## Groove2013

3970 MHz gear 1 passed 11000% Karhu RAM Test.
It's not like 3987 MHz that was bootable, but not to far away.
Now doing primary timings.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> 3970 MHz gear 1 passed 11000% Karhu RAM Test.
> It's not like 3987 MHz that was bootable, but not to far away.
> Now doing primary timings.


nice 

and when will u grace us with some screenshots dude since u kindda said the guy was posting too many pics

with aida if u may. curious DR latency.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> nice
> 
> and when will u grace us with some screenshots dude since u kindda said the guy was posting too many pics
> 
> with aida if u may. curious DR latency.


Will at least do all the primary timings today and post a screen, with the rest of timings on auto.
Now checking CL14 for it to be 10000% stable in Karhu.


----------



## Groove2013

This is RAM sticks temp after 10000% Karhu with sa/io 1.456 and vdimm 1.593 with help of a 10 years old 120 mm Noctua case fan and 22°C room temp.

I will see by how much I will be able to lower sa, io and vdimm, after I've found all the timings.


----------



## tforce

I don't know if these are good but for me is alright
memtest pro windows ver. thought it's stable enough


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> This is RAM sticks temp after 10000% Karhu with sa/io 1.456 and vdimm 1.593 with help of a 10 years old 120 mm Noctua case fan and 22°C room temp.
> 
> I will see by how much I will be able to lower sa, io and vdimm, after I've found all the timings.
> 
> View attachment 2522986
> View attachment 2522987


what dis. story moment?

@Nizzen think this thread gonna be like 10900k. stories. lol


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> what dis. story moment?
> 
> @Nizzen think this thread gonna be like 10900k. stories. lol


Don't understand what you're trying to say with this.


----------



## CallMeODZ

he's saying websters sh!t posts are welcome and they bring him joy
however, your sh!t posts bring him tears and anger


----------



## GTI-R

[QUOTE = "sugi0lover、投稿：28855701、メンバー：446513"]
Cine R23 30分テスト安定性に合格して、現在の毎日のOCseupをテストします。
goonaは、RAMをdr 32GBキットに変更するまで、このセットアップを使用します。

CPU：[email protected]/キャッシュ4.6Ghz
M / B：ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX（BIOS：1007）
メモリOC：4000Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T（Gear1）
電圧（BIOS）：vcore 1.380v（全負荷1.341v）：RAM 1.670v：IO 1.050v：SA 1.53v：Mem OC IO 1.35v
冷却MORA420 Proカスタム水冷（CPU、VGA、RAM）

View attachment 2521671


[MEDIA = youtube] g-lEUwwh-hk [/ MEDIA]
[/見積もり]
通常は1Tです。


----------



## sugi0lover

GTI-R said:


> [QUOTE = "sugi0lover、投稿：28855701、メンバー：446513"]
> Cine R23 30分テスト安定性に合格して、現在の毎日のOCseupをテストします。
> goonaは、RAMをdr 32GBキットに変更するまで、このセットアップを使用します。
> 
> CPU：[email protected]/キャッシュ4.6Ghz
> M / B：ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX（BIOS：1007）
> メモリOC：4000Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T（Gear1）
> 電圧（BIOS）：vcore 1.380v（全負荷1.341v）：RAM 1.670v：IO 1.050v：SA 1.53v：Mem OC IO 1.35v
> 冷却MORA420 Proカスタム水冷（CPU、VGA、RAM）
> 
> View attachment 2521671
> 
> 
> [MEDIA = youtube] g-lEUwwh-hk [/ MEDIA]
> [/見積もり]
> 通常は1Tです。


I am not sure I understand you correctly. Anyway, for RKL, Gear 2 is usually 1T, Gear1 is still mostly 2T. 
I haven't seen anyone stabilized 4000Mhz CL13 1T (Gear 1) yet.


----------



## Groove2013

tforce said:


> I don't know if these are good but for me is alright
> memtest pro windows ver. thought it's stable enough


What's the point in doing 4000 MHz gear 2?


----------



## cstkl1

CallMeODZ said:


> he's saying websters sh!t posts are welcome and they bring him joy
> however, your sh!t posts bring him tears and anger


funny. 
and guess thats u.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> What's the point in doing 4000 MHz gear 2?


yeah . something off with his coverage speed



Groove2013 said:


> Don't understand what you're trying to say with this.


where da aida or cpuz bro or even ram temps with hwinfo of your stories of conquest bro?

edit saw da ram temps. nice. 

now aida aida, cpuz cpuz..


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> where da aida or cpuz bro or even ram temps with hwinfo of your stories of conquest bro?


waiting for Kahru to finish primary timings at least. So there is at least something informative to show.


----------



## Jwick

let him take his time bro


----------



## Groove2013

Setting tRAS from 28 to 14, allowed me to drop from 42.3 ns to 41.1 ns in Aida.
If tRAS 14 will survive 10000% Kahru, it will be nice.

Read, copy and write haven't changed going from 28 to 14.
tRAS lower than 14 not booting. Code 26.

Testing 3970 MHz 14-15-15-14-2T.
Other timings on auto.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

@sugi0lover a little friendly competition. Can you beat my Time Spy CPU score 😛
That’s mine at #3 geriatricpollywog


----------



## Groove2013

In 5 hours Kahru will reach 10000%, if no errors before.


----------



## Groove2013

Do you simply set tREFI to the max possible or is there a calculation based on something to determine the exact tREFI value to use?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Do you simply set tREFI to the max possible or is there a calculation based on something to determine the exact tREFI value to use?


My last kit of 4000c14 could not boot 65535, which is the max. Like most things in overclocking, find the max it will boot, then dial back a little for stability.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> My last kit of 4000c14 could not boot 65535, which is the max. Like most things in overclocking, find the max it will boot, then dial back a little for stability.


So the higher the better. Ok, thx.


----------



## tforce

Groove2013 said:


> waiting for Kahru to finish primary timings at least. So there is at least something informative to show.


why Kahru? why don't run memtest pro windows?
BTW trefi 65535 will raise your IC temperature very high, my suggestion is as followed 7.8 x clock rate of your udimm, and ya don't be that unfriendly, I am not the kid new to the block running the 4000 g2 maybe looks stupid but what I want is the stability for all users！
I can run 5066 c17 too


----------



## Groove2013

@tforce only 16 GB (soon will be like 8 GB back then) and gear 2 is not interesting, for me.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @tforce only 16 GB (soon will be like 8 GB back then) and gear 2 is not interesting, for me.


he can just grab couple of dozen to bin randomly. or even bin chipsets to make a ram boot..

so.. dont tempt him. lol.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tforce said:


> why Kahru? why don't run memtest pro windows?
> BTW trefi 65535 will raise your IC temperature very high, my suggestion is as followed 7.8 x clock rate of your udimm, and ya don't be that unfriendly, I am not the kid new to the block running the 4000 g2 maybe looks stupid but what I want is the stability for all users！
> I can run 5066 c17 too


Nice results!


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> he can just grab couple of dozen to bin randomly. or even bin chipsets to make a ram boot..
> 
> so.. dont tempt him. lol.


I see no point in having only 16 GB and them being slow (44.7 ns) while requiring whopping 1.664V for all of that.
Makes 0 sense, to me.


----------



## Groove2013

Games aren't limited by the bandwidth of 3733 or 3866 MHz gear 1.

So going for a bandwidth higher than that - brings nothing.
But worse responsiveness (ns) impacts FPS, that's for sure.

Just nice frequency and bandwidth numbers for a screen to post, that's it (no offence).
0 real perf gains.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Overclocking is the game.


----------



## Groove2013

Don't know for each of you guys, but I OC, only to have best possible perf in what I'm using my hardware for real, daily.
Never been OC'ing just for the sake of OC'ing and posting/sharing screens with high numbers in stuff you can't really use, other than for such screens.

But that's just me.
Everybody is different.


----------



## Jwick

same


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove:



Groove2013 said:


> Don't know for each of you guys, but I OC, only to have best possible perf in what I'm using my hardware for real, daily.
> Never been OC'ing just for the sake of OC'ing and posting/sharing screens with high numbers in stuff you can't really use, other than for such screens.
> 
> But that's just me.
> Everybody is different.


Also Groove:


Groove2013 said:


> This is what I've done to the 1st 11900K to not scratch it with the cooler and/or socket retention mechanism, but enough to enter the BIOS to see SP and see if it can boot 3866 MHz )))
> View attachment 2522869





Jwick said:


> same


Oh come on. You’re even more of a one-percenter than Groove when it comes to overclocking for the sake of chasing numbers. And there is nothing wrong with that. Embrace it!


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Games aren't limited by the bandwidth of 3733 or 3866 MHz gear 1.
> 
> So going for a bandwidth higher than that - brings nothing.
> But worse responsiveness (ns) impacts FPS, that's for sure.
> 
> Just nice frequency and bandwidth numbers for a screen to post, that's it (no offence).
> 0 real perf gains.


no. thats not how it works. its how data being read/fed that translate into fps

gear 1 benefits in decompression type scenarios.. small scale

gear 2 on high vram, high ram usage etc

you see ppl posting 1080p .. try higher more intensive scenarios.

one can argue gear 1 is useless for 1440p and above most games. its inefficient with so high sa/io requirement just to post screenshot of low latency aida

i am actual gamer with screenshots of stability and tons of full game videos.. no stories.


----------



## Jwick

i mean if u are going sub zero, there is no excuse to not use gear 1. gear 1 scales with cold.


----------



## cstkl1

also rkl the first cpu where we can unleash whats possible on ddr4 when we transit-ion to the next architecture. 

i manage to validate so many things without rtl/iol as a limitation.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i mean if u are going sub zero, there is no excuse to not use gear 1. gear 1 scales with cold.


subzero dont game. they never tried zfs with nosql database with caching on ram

gear 1 is garbage in comparison to gear 2

hci coverage speed not a made up number.


----------



## Jwick

what do u mean subzero dont game?


----------



## cstkl1

i am just too tired with this gear 1vs gear 2 when ppl dont test it out themself.
game . try it.

each has its own benefits

of course 4kc14/c13 a diff story. that one is so high that gear 2 extra bandwidth will find it difficult to compete. but as long one willing to pay the price of high io/sa



Jwick said:


> what do u mean subzero dont game?


you just said gear 1 scales on subzero

i just replied nobody games on subzero

so...


----------



## Jwick

hey i am going to go sub zero daily and play games. cl14/cl13 3900/4000 gear 1 was on my mind comparing to gear 2 brother.


----------



## Jwick

also 1.45-1.5v sa is fine tbh for daily, and 1.45 below is fine too ig for io aux.


----------



## Jwick

i havnt done gear 2 but doesnt gear 2 require more io aux than gear 1?


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i havnt done gear 2 but doesnt gear 2 require more io aux than gear 1?


think i have posted before 4800c17 sr
io 1.0v
sa 0.85 before right hci stable
and 
4533c17 dr is 1.2 io sa 1.05
hci stable


----------



## Jwick

oh gear 2 needs a lot less, way less than i thought it would need. interesting mmm.


----------



## Jwick

1T in gear 1 is annoying bro, screw 1T


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> @sugi0lover a little friendly competition. Can you beat my Time Spy CPU score 😛
> That’s mine at #3 geriatricpollywog
> 
> View attachment 2523002


Hey bud, tested just CPU scores. [email protected] Temp 29C
I think my 11900k can pass 5500Mhz under water temp 24C.









I scored 0 in Time Spy Custom


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

4000c14 stabilized! It needed 1.55 SA though.

VDIMM 1.55
SA 1.55
VCCCIO mem 1.45
VCCIO 1.35













sugi0lover said:


> Hey bud, tested just CPU scores. [email protected] Temp 29C
> I think my 11900k can pass 5500Mhz under water temp 24C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in Time Spy Custom
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2523064


Nice! I'll see what I can do later. What did you set core voltage to?


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 can you please save you current BIOS settings as a profile in the BIOS and then select to load defaults, so everything is on auto, even RAM (will be 2133 MHz) and make a picture of the CPU voltage that is displayed in the right upper corner of the BIOS and post it here?
Thanks!

Really need to know what voltage your CPU has by default in the BIOS.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> View attachment 2523094
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! I'll see what I can do later. What did you set core voltage to?


Nice Ram OC there!
[email protected] needs 1.45v, but 5470Mhz jumps to 1.53v(LLC7) because cache and ram got bclk oced together.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> 4000c14 stabilized! It needed 1.55 SA though.
> 
> VDIMM 1.55
> SA 1.55
> VCCCIO mem 1.45
> VCCIO 1.35
> 
> View attachment 2523094


The fact you needed so high SA and IO to drive this 4000 14-15-15 kit really says it's due to your CPU's IMC or Rocket Lake's IMC in general.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> The fact you needed so high SA and IO to drive this 4000 14-15-15 kit really says it's due to CPU's IMC.


GSkill Trident Royal Elite 4kc14


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> GSkill Trident Royal Elite 4kc14


Yeah, saw that too late on MemTestPro interface...


----------



## Groove2013

My 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP could only do 16-16-16 @ 3970 MHz...
SA/IO 1.45 V and VDIMM 1.593 V.


But seeing @0451 requiring 1.55 SA for his 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-35 1.55 V XMP to work, I have a theory I need to check, that it's not my kit that is so bad, but Rocket Lake's IMC in general.

Now testing my kit at XMP frequency of 3800 MHz @ 14-*15*-*15*-36, instead of XMP 14-16-16-36, to see if it will pass 10000% Karhu and if so, see how far I can go with frequency while still keeping 14-15-15, considering "only" 1.45 V for SA and IO + the intention to lower both later from 1.45 V, if possible.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> My 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP could only do 16-16-16 @ 3970 MHz...
> SA/IO 1.45 V and VDIMM 1.593 V.
> 
> 
> But seeing @0451 requiring 1.55 SA for his 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-35 1.55 V XMP to work, I have a theory I need to check, that it's not my kit that is so bad, but Rocket Lake's IMC in general.
> 
> Now testing my kit at XMP frequency of 3800 MHz @ 14-*15*-*15*-36, instead of XMP 14-16-16-36, to see if it will pass 10000% Karhu and if so, see how far I can go with frequency while still keeping 14-15-15, considering "only" 1.45 V for SA and IO + the intention to lower both later from 1.45 V, if possible.


It needs 1.52 SA up to 3980 and 1.43 SA up to around 3900.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> It needs 1.52 SA up to 3980 and 1.43 SA up to around 3900.


IMC then.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

You are also using a different stability test, so apples to oranges.

There are a lot of performance parameters for memory, including voltage tolerance.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> You are also using a different stability test, so apples to oranges.
> 
> There are a lot of performance parameters for memory, including voltage tolerance.


If I were you, I would have tried 3866 MHz, to have SA lower than 1.43 V and who knows, maybe at 3866 MHz it can do 14-14-14, which would have been better than 4000 14-15-15 and 1.55 V SA.
And also providing you round CPU frequency numbers.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> If I were you, I would have tried 3866 MHz, to have SA lower than 1.43 V and who knows, maybe at 3866 MHz it can do 14-14-14, which would have been better than 4000 14-15-15 and 1.55 V SA.
> And also providing you round CPU frequency numbers.


I remember trying 14-14-14, but it not being very stable. I think its one of those nonsensical timings that might work, but is far from ideal. There must be a reason these sticks are binned 14-15-15.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I remember trying 14-14-14, but it not being very stable. I think its one of those nonsensical timings that might work, but is far from ideal. There must be a reason these sticks are binned 14-15-15.


They're binned 14-15-15 for 4000 MHz.
3866 MHz will maybe make it possible to do 14-14-14.
But it's up to you, of course.
1.55 SA is a bit high.
I don't like having SA even @ 1.45 V.


----------



## Jwick

i can do 3900 13 15 15, 1.475sa io aux 1.45, i havnt tried to reduce voltage yet


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> i can do 3900 13 15 15, 1.475sa io aux 1.45, i havnt tried to reduce voltage yet


but can it pass 200% HCI memtest?


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> They're binned 14-15-15 for 4000 MHz.
> 3866 MHz will maybe make it possible to do 14-14-14.
> But it's up to you, of course.
> 1.55 SA is a bit high.
> I don't like having SA even @ 1.45 V.


I am not sure this also applies to 11th Gen. 
This table from MSI applies to 10th Gen.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> but can it pass 200% HCI memtest?


yes


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> I am not sure this also applies to 11th Gen.
> This table from MSI applies to 10th Gen.
> View attachment 2523178


on the dark the max daily voltages the board says is 1.55v sa 1.55v io


----------



## cstkl1

@tforce

what a ****ing insecure dum*ass

on his fb .. stupidly posted his stupid 5066c17 same bandwidth same as djr 5333
because thus dumbass cannot clock
showed this idiot
5200c20 dr is 81k
and 5333 is 84k

stupid teamgroup dumbaas who cannot clock
but show off ****ty ram clocks.









Kevin Wu


Kevin Wu is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Kevin Wu and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected.




www.facebook.com





insecure basket aint he










dum*ass go con ure china friends lar.

@Nizzen
this is why dont trust teamgroup since it has idiots like this.

they bin like ****. cause fae cannot even clock.

this is 5200c20 dr









5333c20 sr when not in hands of noobs is 83-84k read this i got to find the ss as it was before asus did the boost on copy and intel boost also


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> I am not sure this also applies to 11th Gen.
> This table from MSI applies to 10th Gen.
> View attachment 2523178


But that are only the voltages.
Temperature must also be taken in consideration and how stressful, how often and for how long it's stressed.

So I would suggest to stay lower than these voltages, even if you're on water (I'm on air).


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> My 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP could only do 16-16-16 @ 3970 MHz...
> SA/IO 1.45 V and VDIMM 1.593 V.
> 
> 
> But seeing @0451 requiring 1.55 SA for his 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-35 1.55 V XMP to work, I have a theory I need to check, that it's not my kit that is so bad, but Rocket Lake's IMC in general.
> 
> Now testing my kit at XMP frequency of 3800 MHz @ 14-*15*-*15*-36, instead of XMP 14-16-16-36, to see if it will pass 10000% Karhu and if so, see how far I can go with frequency while still keeping 14-15-15, considering "only" 1.45 V for SA and IO + the intention to lower both later from 1.45 V, if possible.


Rocket Lake IMC is defo bad.

My current Ram Kit (3200 CL14 @ 1.35v XMP) could easily do 3600 CL 14 @ 1.45 (IO / SA on auto) on a 5950x / x570 unify board.

Now (after falsly thinking before its stable) it cant even do 3400 CL14 @ 1.45v.
For now I gave up on OCing my ram and its just running on XMP profile 
Would love some good approach on how to do it cuz this is really bothering me


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> @yns44 can you please save you current BIOS settings as a profile in the BIOS and then select to load defaults, so everything is on auto, even RAM (will be 2133 MHz) and make a picture of the CPU voltage that is displayed in the right upper corner of the BIOS and post it here?
> Thanks!
> 
> Really need to know what voltage your CPU has by default in the BIOS.


the voltage when I open the prime test with the settings you wanted me to use before?


----------



## cstkl1

yns44 said:


> Rocket Lake IMC is defo bad.
> 
> My current Ram Kit (3200 CL14 @ 1.35v XMP) could easily do 3600 CL 14 @ 1.45 (IO / SA on auto) on a 5950x / x570 unify board.
> 
> Now (after falsly thinking before its stable) it cant even do 3400 CL14 @ 1.45v.
> For now I gave up on OCing my ram and its just running on XMP profile
> Would love some good approach on how to do it cuz this is really bothering me


gear 1 only 133 stepping.
gear 2 can use both


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Rocket Lake IMC is defo bad.
> 
> My current Ram Kit (3200 CL14 @ 1.35v XMP) could easily do 3600 CL 14 @ 1.45 (IO / SA on auto) on a 5950x / x570 unify board.
> 
> Now (after falsly thinking before its stable) it cant even do 3400 CL14 @ 1.45v.
> For now I gave up on OCing my ram and its just running on XMP profile
> Would love some good approach on how to do it cuz this is really bothering me


Don't use 100:100 MHz for RAM - only 100:133


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> the voltage when I open the prime test with the settings you wanted me to use before?


No, no.
Like I said - go in the BIOS and load defaults in it. So everything is stock/auto, even RAM not running XMP, but just everything auto and make me a screenshot of the CPU voltage that you can see in the BIOS right upper corner. Don't go in Windows and no stress tests - just BIOS CPU default voltage when everything is by default in the BIOS.
Thx 🙂


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> Don't use 100:100 MHz for RAM - only 100:133


Ok, got it.
So I put 

Gear 1
100:133
leave timing at CL14 / 1N and stepwise increase mhz?
whats a save voltage / temp for my B-Die kit?

Most importantly (after reading of 1.5 io / sa voltages loL) - what values do i give it? I left it on auto all the time but yeah. Maybe thats why it didnt work?


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Ok, got it.
> So I put
> 
> Gear 1
> 100:133
> leave timing at CL14 / 1N and stepwise increase mhz?
> whats a save voltage / temp for my B-Die kit?
> 
> Most importantly (after reading of 1.5 io / sa voltages loL) - what values do i give it? I left it on auto all the time but yeah. Maybe thats why it didnt work?


Only 2N. 1N not possible.
1.45 V SA, IO mem and IO CPU is the max I would use and only while looking for final frequency and timings.
After you find them, lower SA, IO mem and IO CPU as much as possible.

I wouldn't go past 1.6 V for RAM, maybe even slightly less, if RAM is not watercooled and if the temp is higher than 40°C.
ANd this is also the max RAM voltage just while looking for best frequency and timings, but once you find them, see by how much you can lower RAM voltage.


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> Only 2N. 1N not possible.
> 1.45 V SA, IO mem and IO CPU is the max I would use and only while looking for final frequency and timings.
> After you find them, lower SA, IO mem and IO CPU as much as possible.
> 
> I wouldn't go past 1.6 V for RAM, maybe even slightly less, if RAM is not watercooled and if the temp is higher than 40°C.
> ANd this is also the max RAM voltage just while looking for best frequency and timings, but once you find them, see by how much you can lower RAM voltage.


Thanks a lot man, will try it out right now (and make your bios screenshot)
I verify with HCI Memtest - its enough?


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Thanks a lot man, will try it out right now (and make your bios screenshot)
> I verify with HCI Memtest - its enough?


HCI DangWang edition is much more user friendly.
Maybe 1N works, if you have only 16 GB.
But for 32 GB 2N only.


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> HCI DangWang edition is much more user friendly.
> Maybe 1N works, if you have only 16 GB.
> But for 32 GB 2N only.


I cant seem to find this HCI DangWang Edition - you mind sending me a DL link?


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 set timings to 14-15-15-36 and see what's the frequency it allows you to boot with them.
You can lower/increase the frequency by using 98 min and 102 MHz max as BCLK frequency, instead of default 100 MHz.
This will allow you to go higher/lower than 3733/3866 MHz.


----------



## cstkl1

yns44 said:


> Ok, got it.
> So I put
> 
> Gear 1
> 100:133
> leave timing at CL14 / 1N and stepwise increase mhz?
> whats a save voltage / temp for my B-Die kit?
> 
> Most importantly (after reading of 1.5 io / sa voltages loL) - what values do i give it? I left it on auto all the time but yeah. Maybe thats why it didnt work?


dont use 1n, leave cmd auto.


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> I cant seem to find this HCI DangWang Edition - you mind sending me a DL link?


Maybe @cstkl1 can give you a link where to download it?


----------



## cstkl1

yns44 said:


> I cant seem to find this HCI DangWang Edition - you mind sending me a DL link?











쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


일반 AIO사용하고 4DIMM 보드에서 하이닉스 메모리 5333 오버클럭이 아주 잘되네요다만 이 타이밍 세팅으로 안정화를 시키려면 메모리 전압을 좀 많이 줘야 합니다저는 1.8V를



coolenjoy.net


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 after you find a frequency that allows you to boot with 14-15-15, you start to stress test.
And when errors, lower the frequency by lowering/increasing BCLK between 98-102 MHz.


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 you can for example do 100 BCLK and select 3866, to see if it boots with 14-15-15.
If it doesn't boot, lower BCLK down from 100 MHz to lower the frequency, but not lower than 98 MHz.


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 screenshot when? 🙂


----------



## Groove2013

I now have selected 4000 MHz with BCLK 100 and lowering BCLK until I find the frequency that will do 14-15-15 stress test stable.


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> @yns44 screenshot when? 🙂



sorry xD been working all the time. about to finish and will start in a sec and do your screen the first thing.

btw: now you not only need a good cpu bin but also a ICM bin? jesus christ, thats so bad...
If amd could fix their temp spikes on the 5950x I would have never swapped to the 11900k


----------



## Groove2013

@yns44 I hope you have also the latest BIOS version installed.


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> btw: now you not only need a good cpu bin but also a ICM bin? jesus christ, thats so bad...


Been like this since forever, be it Intel or AMD.

You can get a CPU, where cores OC very well, but crap IMC, a CPU that has crap cores, but excellent IMC, CPU with crap cores and IMC or a CPU with excellent cores and IMC.


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> @yns44 I hope you have also the latest BIOS version installed.


Yes I have (xiii hero)


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Yes I have (xiii hero)
> View attachment 2523185


1.012 V despite SP50...
Now see what frequency it can do for 14-15-15-35.


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> 1.012 V despite SP50...
> Now see what frequency it can do for 14-15-15-35.


Its good or bad? xd
Like someone previously said, apparently intel screwed something and the SP is not really reliable anymore?

Settings:
Ram 1.55v
SA / IO / IO CPU 1.45v
BCLK 98 mhz
14-15-15-36-2N (auto)

1.
~4000 mhz didnt boot
~3800 mhz is booting and im running your p95 settings test and its flawless but now my CPU throttled down to 4.9 (from 5.0 all stable previously *<- nvm, it was because of 98 bclk*) even tho temps are super good and peaked at 85°C on 1 core.

With this DangWang Memtest i am not getting along. Its asking for MemTest Pro but I need to buy it? nah, i dont like it xd


----------



## yns44

yns44 said:


> Its good or bad? xd
> Like someone previously said, apparently intel screwed something and the SP is not really reliable anymore?
> 
> Settings:
> Ram 1.55v
> SA / IO / IO CPU 1.45v
> BCLK 98 mhz
> 14-15-15-36-2N (auto)
> 
> 1.
> ~4000 mhz didnt boot
> ~3800 mhz is booting and im running your p95 settings test and its flawless but now my CPU throttled down to 4.9 (from 5.0 all stable previously) even tho temps are super good and peaked at 85°C on 1 core.
> 
> With this DangWang Memtest i am not getting along. Its asking for MemTest Pro but I need to buy it? nah, i dont like it xd


NVM, chrome just crashed. testing next lower mhz.
btw: I am running CPU Cache on 4400 mhz - should I OC it?


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Its good or bad? xd
> Like someone previously said, apparently intel screwed something and the SP is not really reliable anymore?
> 
> Settings:
> Ram 1.55v
> SA / IO / IO CPU 1.45v
> BCLK 98 mhz
> 14-15-15-36-2N (auto)
> 
> 1.
> ~4000 mhz didnt boot
> ~3800 mhz is booting and im running your p95 settings test and its flawless but now my CPU throttled down to 4.9 (from 5.0 all stable previously) even tho temps are super good and peaked at 85°C on 1 core.
> 
> With this DangWang Memtest i am not getting along. Its asking for MemTest Pro but I need to buy it? nah, i dont like it xd


Prime95 12K min and max is not for stability/voltage test. It's to generate max possible temperature.
You have to set CPU and RAM VRM to their max capacity, remove TDP limits, set CPU capacity 140% and 130% for RAM.
And when you OC, you first OC RAM and only then cores and cache.
So you can manually set cores and cache to something like 3600 MHz and manual voltage something like 1.325 V and LLC7.

You can't OC everything at the same time, changing a lot of numbers at the same time.
Because when it will crash, you won't understand where is the problem.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Been like this since forever, be it Intel or AMD.
> 
> You can get a CPU, where cores OC very well, but crap IMC, a CPU that has crap cores, but excellent IMC, CPU with crap cores and IMC or a CPU with excellent cores and IMC.


odd that the LTX gold has both good cores and imc, mmmm


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Yes I have (xiii hero)
> View attachment 2523185


Mine shows 0.977 V. So might be slightly better than yours.
But that's just cores.
IMC one has to test.


----------



## yns44

Groove2013 said:


> Prime95 12K min and max is not for stability/voltage test. It's to generate max possible temperature.
> You have to set CPU and RAM VRM to their max capacity, remove TDP limits, set CPU capacity 140% and 130% for RAM.
> And when you OC, you first OC RAM and only then cores and cache.
> So you can manually set cores and cache to something like 3600 MHz and manual voltage something like 1.325 V and LLC7.
> 
> You can't OC everything at the same time, changing a lot of numbers at the same time.
> Because when it will crash, you won't understand where is the problem.


I see, thank you.

I am super lazy to do it right now so i will just stick to this 3733 mhz (14-14-14-34) and lower the voltage as much as I can.

Can you give me a safe value for the cache ratio?


----------



## Groove2013

yns44 said:


> Can you give me a safe value for the cache ratio?


No. Each CPU sample is different. Have to test yourself.
Maybe 4.5 GHz will be possible. In some cases 4.6 GHz.


----------



## Groove2013

@0451 tried SA 1.55, like you, instead of 1.45 and my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP are doing 4000 14-15-15-35 no problem already for 30 mins.

But I don't think 1.55 SA is safe. I'm on air.
What do you think? Any ideas?


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> @0451 tried SA 1.55, like you, instead of 1.45 and my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP are doing 4000 14-15-15-35 no problem already for 30 mins.
> 
> But I don't think 1.55 SA is safe. I'm on air.
> What do you think? Any ideas?


should be okay imo. dont go io that high tho


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> @0451 tried SA 1.55, like you, instead of 1.45 and my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP are doing 4000 14-15-15-35 no problem already for 30 mins.
> 
> But I don't think 1.55 SA is safe. I'm on air.
> What do you think? Any ideas?


u are on air so, maybe under 1.5v


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> should be okay imo. dont go io that high tho


IO mem and CPU 1.45.

But I need this CPU to work for more than just 1-2 years. Rather 3-5 years. So don't know if it will degrade with 1.55 SA.


----------



## Groove2013

Yeah, will see what's possible with SA 1.45.


----------



## Jwick

for the most part u should be fine cause intel spec is at 1.52v even for 10900k and 11900k has a stronger imc/14+++++++++++++ so u should be fine running 1.55v . well thats what the dark says too. 1.55v safe. but on load it droops to 1.525v


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> IO mem and CPU 1.45.
> 
> But I need this CPU to work for more than just 1-2 years. Rather 3-5 years. So don't know if it will degrade with 1.55 SA.


I don’t know. It depends on your use case. I might play a game 1-2 hours per week and watch some YouTube. I will upgrade in 9-12 months.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Yeah, will see what's possible with SA 1.45.


i think 1.5v sa should be fine. 1.55 should be fine as well, cause many people have been running 1.5v sa on 10900k for a year and no degradation so.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> I don’t know. It depends on your use case. I might play a game 1-2 hours per week and watch some YouTube.


not same lol


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> I don’t know. It depends on your use case. I might play a game 1-2 hours per week and watch some YouTube. I will upgrade in 9-12 months.


per week? thats a bit low, your cpu will be chilling then


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> per week?


0-4 hours per week is more like it. I haven’t played anything this past month but I’ve been known to put a couple hours a day into Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition


----------



## Groove2013

I'm checking what frequency I can do with SA 1.45 and if the possible frequency will be too close to 3866, I will simply do 3866, to have round CPU frequency numbers (BCLK 100) and lower SA from 1.45.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> I'm checking ehat frequency I can do with SA 1.45 and if the possible frequency will be too close to 3866, I will simply do 3866, to have round CPU frequency numbers (BCLK 100) and lower SA from 1.45.


Have you tried HCI memtest? It gives you a repeatably precise bandwidth measurement and you can compare against my bandwidth for 3866, 3900, 3940, 3980, and 4000. I posted results the past 4 days.


----------



## Groove2013

I have HCI.
But I'm not after bandwidth, rather responsiveness (ns).


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> I have HCI.
> But I'm not after bandwidth, rather responsiveness (ns).


So you’re not using a mem test that gives you a bandwidth measurement? How do you know your timings are any good?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> So you’re not using a mem test that gives you a bandwidth measurement? How do you know your timings are any good?


Aida ns and bandwidth.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Aida ns and bandwidth.


Aida just tests for a few seconds. It’s not even repeatable. I’ll get 65,000 read, then repeat the test and get 63,500. That’s not a margin of error that will detect whether a timing change hurts bandwidth or latency.


----------



## yns44

B-Die temps at 55°C under load is okay or nah?


----------



## i9forever

nvm, it crashed in anta777


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> Aida just tests for a few seconds. It’s not even repeatable. I’ll get 65,000 read, then repeat the test and get 63,500. That’s not a margin of error that will detect whether a timing change hurts bandwidth or latency.


i use linpack


----------



## Arni90

yns44 said:


> B-Die temps at 55°C under load is okay or nah?


Perfectly fine for the ICs, but you might lose some stability.


----------



## Talon2016

Pretty sure my 11900K IMC is just trash. I can't get it to even boot 3866. 

I was previously using 4x8gb B-Die 4400Mhz CL19 1.4v kit. 

Now using a 2x16gb B-Die 4000Mhz CL14 1.55v kit and still no dice. 

Asus Maximus Hero XIII. I am able to run 3733Mhz CL13 14 32 325 at 1.525v


----------



## Groove2013

Talon2016 said:


> Pretty sure my 11900K IMC is just trash. I can't get it to even boot 3866.
> 
> I was previously using 4x8gb B-Die 4400Mhz CL19 1.4v kit.
> 
> Now using a 2x16gb B-Die 4000Mhz CL14 1.55v kit and still no dice.
> 
> Asus Maximus Hero XIII. I am able to run 3733Mhz CL13 14 32 325 at 1.525v


What is your SA, mem IO and CPU IO voltages?
Is CPU itself OC'ed?
RAM temperature under load?
With what have you stressed RAM?
Are you using 100:133 MHz for RAM?
Latest BIOS flashed?


----------



## sugi0lover

my first experience with DR 32G (16x2).
I am not sure if this kit is good enough to water cooling.
Anyway, this will be my worst setup because I've just started ^^

- Memory OC : 3866-13-14-14-14-28-265-2T (gear 1)


----------



## Talon2016

Groove2013 said:


> What is your SA, mem IO and CPU IO voltages?
> Is CPU itself OC'ed?
> RAM temperature under load?
> With what have you stressed RAM?
> Are you using 100:133 MHz for RAM?
> Latest BIOS flashed?


CPU is 51x at 1.39v LLC5

SA and Mem IO are 1.28 but I've gone up to 1.4v and AUTO with no change. 

IO is Auto or 1.070v

Gaming RAM temp at load is 40-45c

I use the MemTest program

Yes 100:133

Latest 1007?


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> my first experience with DR 32G (16x2).
> I am not sure if this kit is good enough to water cooling.
> Anyway, this will be my worst setup because I've just started ^^
> 
> - Memory OC : 3866-13-14-14-14-28-265-2T (gear 1)
> View attachment 2523211


Try to set it to 4000 and with BCLK go down from there.
I'm now testing 3964 MHz 14-15-15 1.59 V sa/io 1.45.
Almost 2 hours stable.


----------



## Jwick

have u tried 13-15?


----------



## Groove2013

13-15 not working.

@sugi0lover also try to increase CPU IO and mem IO to like 1.45 V.
Just to see if it helps.

For 4000 MHz you need more than 1.45 V SA.


----------



## Groove2013

@Talon2016 almost 50°C in games is "a lot" for RAM, even if it has no problems at like 60°C.
I imagine in MemTest the temp is even higher than in games.

1.28 SA and mem IO is not much.
CPU IO maybe also requires more than stock 1.05 V.

RAM temp has to be as low as possible for it to be stable at higher frequency and lower timings.


----------



## Groove2013

@Talon2016 CPU OC might also be a problem.
I would rather do RAM OC first, as that's what brings most and only then OC the CPU, to exclude possible CPU OC stability probability, just in case.
You could set your CPU and cache frequency both at something like 3.6 GHz and fixed voltage 1.25 V for example and see what you can do with your RAM.


----------



## Talon2016

Groove2013 said:


> @Talon2016 almost 50°C in games is "a lot" for RAM, even if it has no problems at like 60°C.
> I imagine in MemTest the temp is even higher than in games.
> 
> 1.28 SA and mem IO is not much.
> CPU IO maybe also requires more than stock 1.05 V.
> 
> RAM temp has to be as low as possible for it to be stable at higher frequency and lower timings.


I will go ahead and look into putting direct fan airflow on the ram. It honestly might just be this motherboard. The Apex board is what I should have gone with but at the time I was using the 4x8gb kit and didn't want to change ram too. O well, DDR5 is just around the corner and I will find a use for this kit or my old kit.


----------



## Groove2013

Talon2016 said:


> I will go ahead and look into putting direct fan airflow on the ram.


I have a 10 years old 120 mm in the top of the case that blows fresh air directly inside the sides of both RAM sticks at 1200 rpm and despite very high voltage, temp never goes past 41-42°C with 22°C room temp.
There are openings on the sides of the sticks, through which one can see RAM PCB and memory chips.
So air must come frome the side of sticks, not from top of them.

Otherwise, blowing fresh air on top of them at RGB lightning won't help at all.


----------



## Groove2013

Already more than 4000% in Karhu RAM Test @ 3961-3962 MHz 14-15-15 (2x16 GB) 1.593 V, sa/io mem/cpu 1.45 V.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> my first experience with DR 32G (16x2).
> I am not sure if this kit is good enough to water cooling.
> Anyway, this will be my worst setup because I've just started ^^
> 
> - Memory OC : 3866-13-14-14-14-28-265-2T (gear 1)
> View attachment 2523211


How high can it do 14-15-15?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> How high can it do 14-15-15?


100% no higher than with 13-14-14, because of IMC and "only" 1.45 SA, "only" 1.35 io and cpu io even lower.

Even if he could do closer to 4000 or 4000 exactly, 13-14-14 with slightly lower frequency is better responsiveness in ns).


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> 100% no higher than with 13-14-14, because of IMC and "only" 1.45 SA, "only" 1.35 io and cpu io even lower.
> 
> Even if he could do closer to 4000 or 4000 exactly, 13-14-14 with slightly lower frequency is better responsiveness in ns).


I think he has my ram kit tho


----------



## Talon2016

Still going strong. Will go back and try higher IO and see if I can get 3866 CL14 stable.


----------



## Groove2013

Talon2016 said:


> View attachment 2523224
> 
> 
> Still going strong. Will go back and try higher IO and see if I can get 3866 CL14 stable.


And SA and IO CPU as well.
Don't recommend going higher than 1.45 V and once you find max stable frequency and min stable timings, see if you can lower all these voltages as much as possible from 1.45 V.


----------



## Groove2013

Could finally stabilise my 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP with 14-15-15 @ 3961-3962 MHz gear 1.
VDIMM 1.593 V, SA/IO MEM/CPU 1.45 V.
Now will lower tRAS, tRFC and maximise tREFI.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Could finally stabilise my 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP with 14-15-15 @ 3962-3963 MHz gear 1.
> Now will lower tRAS, tRFC and maximise tREFI.


Cool! Does your kit have enough voltage tolerance to handle 1.55v at 4000 14-15-15 without errors?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Cool! Does your kit have enough voltage tolerance to handle 1.55v at 4000 14-15-15 without errors?


It's now at 1.593 V, just in case if.
Will lower vdimm, sa and io, once I finish with all the timings.


----------



## Groove2013

Can boot tRAS 14, which gives me 1 ns less vs 28 in Aida64.
But bootable and stable is not the same.
Will see how low can tRAS go for stress test stability.


----------



## Groove2013

I won't do 4000 MHz anyways, because 1.55 V SA is simply too much, from my point of view, especially on air and since I intend to keep this build for 3-4 years.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> How high can it do 14-15-15?


I usually don't do 14 15 15. 
13 13 13 or 13 14 14 or 14 14 14 is for me.
However this is 32g dr, so I may have to compromise. I will let you know when I OC a little more at night here.


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> I usually don't do 14 15 15.
> 13 13 13 or 13 14 14 or 14 14 14 is for me.
> However this is 32g dr, so I may have to compromise. I will let you know when I OC a little more at night here.


Well, that was with 2x8 GB.
2x16 GB is a different story.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> Well, that was with 2x8 GB.
> 2x16 GB is a different story.


As I posted here, I already did 3866-13-14-14 easily with 2x16GB. Let's see how far it can be oced.
Anyway, when can we see your latency? My is 36.2ns, and will go lower with more oc.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> As I posted here, I already did 3866-13-14-14 easily with 2x16GB. Let's see how far it can be oced.
> Anyway, when can we see your latency? My is 36.2ns, and will go lower with more oc.


i got 36.7 for 3866c14-14-14

afaik sr are better cause rtl is 59/60 but copy not so good as dr.


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> As I posted here, I already did 3866-13-14-14 easily with 2x16GB. Let's see how far it can be oced.
> Anyway, when can we see your latency? My is 36.2ns, and will go lower with more oc.


I'm slow.
I never change a lot of timings at the same time, to exclude any timing that would be too low and make everything unstable.
I test timing after timing.
That's very slow, but works best.
So it won't be finished in few days, that's for sure.

See if you can do more than 3866 with same primary timings.
Go down from 4000 MHz or up from 3866 MHz using BCLK.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> I'm slow. Need time.
> I never change a lot of timings at the same time, to exclude any timing that would be too low and make everything unstable.
> I test timing after timing.
> So it won't be finished in few days, that's for sure.
> 
> See if you can do more than 3866 with same primary timings.
> Go down from 4000 MHz or up from 3866 MHz using BCLK.


still waiting for screenshot.


----------



## cstkl1

archaic slow on this 4266c17 kit on cml. 

11900k gear 2 way faster.. 50% atleast.. gear 1 also faster..


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> archaic slow on this 4266c17 kit on cml.
> 
> 11900k gear 2 way faster.. 50% atleast.. gear 1 also faster..


You mean bandwidth is lower?


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> As I posted here, I already did 3866-13-14-14 easily with 2x16GB. Let's see how far it can be oced.
> My is 36.2ns, and will go lower with more oc.


I won't be able to go as low anyways, since not on water + my 3800 CL14 1.5 bin is worse than your 4000 CL14 1.55.


----------



## Groove2013

I would have liked to have a 4000 CL14 kit, but don't know if 14-14-14 instead of 14-15-15 would bring that much more FPS, especially considering the price.
Well, tRFC might be also slightly lower.
But it costs 520€ here.
Would probably have been ok, if I would have bought directly this kit.
But it didn't exist when I bought my 3800 CL14 in January-February.
So paying now 520€ and also still having my 3800 CL14 laying around is a no go, for me.


----------



## Groove2013

For me, it's only about FPS in what I play.
Bandwidth, nanosecs or other scores I don't care if it shows better numbers, but FPS is still roughly the same.

And if between 14-15-15 and 14-14-14 there is a difference of like 3 FPS, well, for me it doesn't justify 140€ higher price vs. 3800 CL14.
And in my case, since I already have 3800 CL14, it's not just 140€ more for 4000 CL14, but 520€ more.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> I won't be able to go as low anyways, since not on water + my 3800 CL14 1.5 bin is worse than your 4000 CL14 1.55.


My 32GB is air cooled not water cooled. You can check my ram temp which is higher than my 16gb. Anyway I think this place is not for competition. It's sharing info to help each other. Let's enjoy ocing!


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> Let's enjoy ocing!


Trying now to do more than 3961-3962 MHz 14-15-15.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> For me it's only about FPS in what I play.
> Bandwidth, nanosecs or other scores I don't care if it shows better numbers, but FPS is still roughly the same.
> 
> And if between 14-15-15 and 14-14-14 there is a difference of like 3 FPS, well, for me it doesn't justify 140€ higher price vs. 3800 CL14.
> And in my case, since I already have 3800 CL14, it's not just 140€ more for 4000 CL14, but 520€ more.


If you are interested purely in performance for competitive gaming, your ping is far more important than getting 250 instead of 220 fps in Warzone. What’s the point of getting another .03 frames per millisecond if those frames are 10 milliseconds late?


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> If you are interested purely in performance for competitive gaming, your ping is far more important than getting 250 instead of 220 fps in Warzone. What’s the point of getting another .03 frames per millisecond if those frames are 10 milliseconds late?


seems like alot of posting stories and some gaming fps seems more important for that guy.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> You mean bandwidth is lower?


not bandwidth. coverage speed.


----------



## Groove2013

Yes, FPS in what I play is the only thing that matters for me.

My ping is 5-7 ping on EU servers, so it's fine.


----------



## Groove2013

Final frequency for 14-15-15 went up from 3961-3962 to 3963-3964 MHz.
2 MHz more 🤣🤣🤣
Now testing tRAS.


----------



## Groove2013

1.45 V SA is what really limits the frequency...


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> 1.45 V SA is what really limits the frequency...


and temperatures 🙂


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> and temperatures 🙂


Sure, lower temp = lower voltage/power draw.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> 1.45 V SA is what really limits the frequency...


whats your load vccsa ? if its drooping, then u can bump it up.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> whats your load vccsa ? if its drooping, then u can bump it up.


It's 1.456 V min under load.

If RAM sticks could be closer to 30°C...
And CPU (IMC) temp would have been also lower...
Who knows, maybe 4000 MHz with same SA voltage could have been possible...


----------



## Groove2013

Anybody can share link(s) concerning ODT and slopes and skews stuff?

Somebody told me, configuring this, would allow to drop SA, IO and VDIMM voltages and thus lower temp/ powee draw or might allow to reach higher frequency at same voltages I have now.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> Anybody can share link(s) concerning ODT and slopes and scews stuff?
> 
> Somebody told me, configuring this, would allow to drop SA, IO and VDIMM voltages and thus lower temp/ powee draw or might allow to reach higher frequency at same voltages I have now.


Slopes
Skews


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> Slopes
> Skews


Finding the right values for you specific config, allows to greatly reduce SA, IO and VDIMM for current frequency and timings or reach higher frequency or if higher frequency than current not possible anymore, it allows to stabilise timings for that max frequency you already reached.


----------



## Groove2013

Was able to do tRAS 15.
Copy/read/write same as with tRAS 28, but 1 ns less in Aida64.
(Run Aida64 5-7 times, to have a good idea of bandwidth and responsiveness, since it's not so consistent from run to run)
Now comes tRFC.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Was able to do tRAS 15.
> Copy/read/write same as with tRAS 28, but 1 ns less in Aida64.
> Now comes tRFC.


Cool! I haven’t done much testing at tRAS15. I’m definitely interested in seeing your HCI memtest throughput over 200% once you are done dialing in your kit. I’m at 69 MB/s.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Cool! I haven’t done much testing at tRAS15. I’m definitely interested in seeing your HCI memtest throughput over 200% once you are done dialing in your kit. I’m at 69 MB/s.


It booted with tRAS 14 and almost completed the stress test, but there was and error, so rerun with 15 and 5 hours later the test is finished with 15 and no errors.
Less than 14 - no boot.


----------



## Groove2013

What can be consider as stable with HCI, 200%, 300% or more?


----------



## Groove2013

Will start with tRFC 230 and increase by 1, until it boots.
Once it's able to boot, will run Karhu and increase tRFC by 1, until it manages to pass 10000% Karhu.


----------



## Groove2013

Lol, it booted straight away with tRFC 230 )))


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> What can be consider as stable with HCI, 200%, 300% or more?


I’m testing at 200% if you want something to compare to. You can test longer, but there won’t be a baseline at 3960-4000.

DDR4 is non-ECC so if you test it long enough, it WILL error. Whether that’s 24 hours or 2 years.


----------



## Groove2013

How much time +- it takes for you to complete 200%?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> How much time +- it takes for you to complete 200%?


1:27:24 to 201.27%


----------



## Groove2013

@0451 I suspect that your tRFC might be a little bit too high )))
Running tRFC 234 for 20 mins already.
I don't think there will be no errors, but I also don't think I will have to go all the way up to 296, like you.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @0451 I suspect that your tRFC might be a little bit too high )))
> Running tRFC 234 for 20 mins already.
> I don't think there will be no errors, but I also don't think I will have to go all the way up to 296, like you.


Cool. I had mine at 249 but it errored a 150%. Are you testing at 4kc14?


----------



## Groove2013

@shamino1978 @safedisk can you guys post a link to the newest version of TurboV Core, please?

Because I only found version 1.10.12 somewhere on the net and it has a "big" problem with Rocket Lake.

If in the BIOS I set max multi to 52 and then leave few cores at 5.2 GHz and lower the rest of cores to 5.0 GHz, when in Windows, if using TurboV Core 1.10.12 I change any voltage(s) and hit "apply", it sets all cores to 5.2 GHz, despite me not even having touched at all the section of TurboV Core with cores multipliers and in BIOS it's like I said 5.2 GHz for few cores and the rest of cores are at 5.0 GHz.

If I don't change/apply any voltage(s) in TurboV Core, let's say I don't use TurboV Core, the cores in the BIOS I set to boost lower (5.0 GHz) than the overall multi (5.2 GHz) , it all works like it should.

So TurboV Core v.1.10.12 not really usable for me.

And even if I set max/overall multi in the BIOS to 52 and then in TurboV Core limit some cores to only 5.0 GHz, with separate multi for each core, it still applies only same max multi to all cores...

Thx in advance!


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Cool. I had mine at 249 but it errored a 150%. Are you testing at 4kc14?


No, since SA is "only" 1.45 V.
So it's at 3964 MHz 14-15-15-15.


----------



## shamino1978

Groove2013 said:


> @shamino1978 @safedisk can you guys post a link to the newest version of TurboV Core, please?
> 
> Because I only found version 1.10.12 somewhere on the net and it has a "big" problem with Rocket Lake.
> 
> If in the BIOS I set max multi to 52 and then leave few cores at 5.2 GHz and lower the rest of cores to 5.0 GHz, when in Windows, if using TurboV Core 1.10.12 I change any voltage(s) and hit "apply", it sets all cores to 5.2 GHz, despite me not even having touched at all the section of TurboV Core with cores multipliers and in BIOS it's like I said 5.2 GHz for few cores and the rest of cores are at 5.0 GHz.
> 
> If I don't change/apply any voltage(s) in TurboV Core, let's say I don't use TurboV Core, the cores in the BIOS I set to boost lower (5.0 GHz) than the overall multi (5.2 GHz) , it all works like it should.
> 
> So TurboV Core v.1.10.12 not really usable for me.
> 
> And even if I set max/overall multi in the BIOS to 52 and then in TurboV Core limit some cores to only 5.0 GHz, with separate multi for each core, it still applies only same max multi to all cores...
> 
> Thx in advance!


Turbovcore will only synch all cores


----------



## Groove2013

Finally found tRFC. It's 236 for me.
So now it looks like this 3964 MHz gear 1 14-15-15-15-236-2N.

Now the other timings.


----------



## cstkl1

lol


----------



## murenitu

I have the possibility of buying another 10900k since mine is RMA or change to a 11900k.

I'm waiting for intel answer right now, I have 2 kits of 16gb F4-4000C18D-16GTZR total 32gb!

Would it be worth using the formula z490 and using a 11900k? or stick with 10900k?

how is that memory for 11900k?


----------



## Groove2013

Z490 not good at all for 11th gen.
4000 CL18 not really good.


----------



## murenitu

Groove2013 said:


> Z490 not good at all for 11th gen.
> 4000 CL18 not really good.


what a bad scenario.

I have nothing good! so bad is memory is b-die


----------



## Groove2013

murenitu said:


> what a bad scenario.
> 
> I have nothing good! so bad is memory is b-die


If it's B-DIE, it doesn't automatically mean it's good.
There are different quality B-DIEs.
4000 CL18 is not particularly good.


----------



## murenitu

And what is the technical reasoning for those gskill 4000cl18-19-19-39 at 1.35v to be so bad for the 11th?

I just ordered a 11900k after the RMA of the 10900k that intel reimburses me, although I pay a small difference .... now you have created doubts if I did the right thing.

I only use the pc to play at 1440p


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen hows the skiing?
> @0451 hows the lake?
> 
> how is everybody? all vaccinated?
> 
> @Esenel
> all good?


Lol, fully vaccinated! 

5600Mhz CL20 (tightened from CL21) 5.2Ghz CPU is possible on air. 

Wow, thank you Shamino, you the best! 😀


----------



## Groove2013

tRFC is very high and most certainly all the other timings as well.
So it's just a nice RAM frequency number, not more (no offence).


----------



## Jwick

is z490 apex any good for rkl?


----------



## murenitu

el asus formula z490 no coincide con el 11900k? Estoy a tiempo de cancelar el pedido, creo ...


----------



## cstkl1

murenitu said:


> el asus formula z490 no coincide con el 11900k? Estoy a tiempo de cancelar el pedido, creo ...


theres one guy here great result with formula
5.2ghz 11900k 3866c14 etc. 

@morph. i think


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> 쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네
> 
> 
> 일반 AIO사용하고 4DIMM 보드에서 하이닉스 메모리 5333 오버클럭이 아주 잘되네요다만 이 타이밍 세팅으로 안정화를 시키려면 메모리 전압을 좀 많이 줘야 합니다저는 1.8V를
> 
> 
> 
> coolenjoy.net


is this the same as hci mem test pro?


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> is this the same as hci mem test pro?


its just a gui launcher
btw the poster and the sharer of that account is safedisk in that forum

u need to place memtestpro.exe into the folder. 

you have better control in stress testing with this launcher
auto screenshots. stopping on error count. shutdown when target achieve

or even doing restart loops auto benching on startup etc

the programmer banned any giga mobo btw. because of the fiasco they did.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> its just a gui launcher
> btw the poster and the sharer of that account is safedisk in that forum
> 
> u need to place memtestpro.exe into the folder.
> 
> you have better control in stress testing with this launcher
> auto screenshots. stopping on error count. shutdown when target achieve
> 
> or even doing restart loops auto benching on startup etc
> 
> the programmer banned any giga mobo btw. because of the fiasco they did.


Thanks a lot


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool
> @Nizzen
> 
> can answer that for ya.


Performance with 11900k and z490 i pretty good actually 
My daughter is using msi z490 unify itx and 11700k that I bought 1 month before launch. She is happy, and performance pretty good there too. 
11700k and 3090 strix white.

* 2x vaccine -> check 🥳
3 months until skiing again.


----------



## cstkl1

first time distro. 
inverted to bleed the cpu loop. 
if there was any leak it be that supercool direct touch ram block. 

find this fascinating. watching da pump pushing out da water. 

old setup in tj11 had rads at bottom with a ekduald5 just forcing all the air off the gpu/cpu blocks for last 8 years..

this one d5 like a chugger.


----------



## murenitu

brilliant!

I hope it was finally the 10900k that gave me problems and not the z490 formula!

I just paid the 11900k and will be from here in a few days, plus the magnitude also reaches me.

I hope to ride and be able to do some oc, and that it was the micro that made me the fool.


----------



## Pexoc

CallMeODZ said:


> ^^^ did someone accidentally reply into this thread with their sock account?


Ehm Yes lol, made new PC few days ago and forgot password to my original acc, so I had to make a new acc for the new PC. The old acc will be dead as soon as I will erase the OS SSD in it, in few days.


----------



## bscool

murenitu said:


> I have the possibility of buying another 10900k since mine is RMA or change to a 11900k.
> 
> I'm waiting for intel answer right now, I have 2 kits of 16gb F4-4000C18D-16GTZR total 32gb!
> 
> Would it be worth using the formula z490 and using a 11900k? or stick with 10900k?
> 
> how is that memory for 11900k?


I have used z490 Unify, z490 Apex, z590 Hero and z590 Apex and using the 11th gen in z490 boards limits the performance/benchmark # using aida64 a little compared to z590 MB. Copy is a slightly down and latency around 1.5ns higher from what I remember. But in actual use I don't notice a difference.

Edit also for @Jwick


----------



## Jwick

bscool said:


> I have used z490 Unify, z490 Apex, z590 Hero and z590 Apex and using the 11th gen in z490 boards limits the performance/benchmark # using aida64 a little compared to z590 MB. Copy is a slightly down and latency around 1.5ns higher from what I remember. But in actual use I don't notice a difference.
> 
> Edit also for @Jwick


Thanks a lot


----------



## Groove2013

Now redoing it all from scratch.
Just lost time for nothing with stabilising 3964 14-15-15.
Even 3900 14-14-14 is faster.

15:3964x2000=7.57 ns.
14:3900x2000=7.17 ns.

3900 is just as exemple.

14-14-14 boots no problem 1000 times at 3964, so stress test stable frequency might be not that far away from 3964 for 14-14-14.

And if for 14-14-14 the final stable frequency will be more than 3900, then it means it will be even better than 3900 CL14 7.17 ns.

Slightly lower bandwidth, but sincerely - who cares?
3866+ bandwidth is more than enough imho.


----------



## Groove2013

14-14-14 didn't work even for 3866.
So back to improving 3964 14-15-15-15


----------



## cstkl1

watching the 2nd pump struggle.. go go go little fella.


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover any news concerning frequency for 13-14-14, or if not, maybe 14-14-14 then?

I'm really interested by 4000 CL14 kit, for feature buy.
Now it's too expensive for me and will use my 3964 14-15-15 for the moment.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover any news concerning frequency for 13-14-14, or if not, maybe 14-14-14 then?
> 
> I'm really interested by 4000 CL14 kit, for feature buy.
> Now it's too expensive for me and will use my 3964 14-15-15 for the moment.


been busy with work. Now I am working on this.
Latency is very satisfying considering dual rank.
- 3900-13-13-13-15-215-2T (gear1)


----------



## Neon Knights

This is all i can do stable (nearly) at G1 with my CPU "pile of rubble"🤬 - no chance so far to boot 3866


----------



## WebsterRKL

5333Mhz CL19 on air.

But also hit a hard wall. Cannot get the CPU back up to 5.3Ghz, only 5.2Ghz - mostly because I stink at overclocking.  

Oh well, the plan was to return this Gskill kit back to Newegg within the 30day window if the 11600K could not at least run at XMP 5333Mhz CL22, and it's done so much more than that. Now to tighten the 32 32 52 and extremely high tRFC 934 values, those are all original XMP profile.


----------



## Lownage

Best I can do is this:








3920-14-14-14 is also possible. However I think 3866-13-14-14 will be better for gaming.
3940 doesn´t boot with SA as high as 1,52V


Screenshot is from early testing. Final voltages are: 
VDIMM 1.57V
SA 1.4V @ LLC3 
VCCIO MEM 1,35V


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> 5333Mhz CL19 on air.
> 
> But also hit a hard wall. Cannot get the CPU back up to 5.3Ghz, only 5.2Ghz - mostly because I stink at overclocking.
> 
> Oh well, the plan was to return this Gskill kit back to Newegg within the 30day window if the 11600K could not at least run at XMP 5333Mhz CL22, and it's done so much more than that. Now to tighten the 32 32 52 and extremely high tRFC 934 values, those are all original XMP profile.
> 
> View attachment 2523672





WebsterRKL said:


> 5333Mhz CL19 on air.
> 
> But also hit a hard wall. Cannot get the CPU back up to 5.3Ghz, only 5.2Ghz - mostly because I stink at overclocking.
> 
> Oh well, the plan was to return this Gskill kit back to Newegg within the 30day window if the 11600K could not at least run at XMP 5333Mhz CL22, and it's done so much more than that. Now to tighten the 32 32 52 and extremely high tRFC 934 values, those are all original XMP profile.
> 
> View attachment 2523672


after 5200 its difficult to keep trdrd_l/s @4


----------



## CallMeODZ

cstkl1 said:


> after 5200 its difficult to keep trdrd_l/s @4


ahhhhh sober cstk is back
fkn nice
how was the trip into the beyond mate u bounce back wit ram timings


----------



## CallMeODZ




----------



## sugi0lover

having a little more time with new 32GB ram kit.


Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Memory OC : 3920Mhz-13-14-14-15-215-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : RAM 1.60v / IO 1.05v / SA 1.47v / Mem OC IO 1.42v


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Alex132 said:


> 93% with 10% eth? I do 91 0% eth vs 93 with 10% eth personally.


Those are the choices. I can’t find 93 with no eth.

I know an S2K guy with 250k miles running E85 supercharged so E10 can’t be that bad.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> having a little more time with new 32GB ram kit.
> 
> 
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Memory OC : 3920Mhz-13-14-14-15-215-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : RAM 1.60v / IO 1.05v / SA 1.47v / Mem OC IO 1.42v
> 
> View attachment 2523698


Can your kit do 3800 or 4000 at c14? I’m seeing 1100MB/s 16K and 69 MB/s average at those settings with the same latency.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Can your kit do 3800 or 4000 at c14? I’m seeing 1100MB/s 16K and 69 MB/s average at those settings with the same latency.


I haven't tried it yet. I am trying to stabilize higher clock with 13-13-13 setting since the only good thing of gear 1 for me is latency, not bandwidth.
I stabilized 3900-13-13-13 and its latency is 35.4ns. 3920-13-14-14 is worse than 3900-13-13-13 at latency. I will see what my ram can do more.
It's 1 am here. so time to bed^^


----------



## Groove2013

Lownage said:


> Best I can do is this:
> View attachment 2523673
> 
> 3920-14-14-14 is also possible. However I think 3866-13-14-14 will be better for gaming.
> 3940 doesn´t boot with SA as high as 1,52V
> 
> 
> Screenshot is from early testing. Final voltages are:
> VDIMM 1.57V
> SA 1.4V @ LLC3
> VCCIO MEM 1,35V


3920 going down from 4000 or going up from 3866?
SA 1.45 might help and IO MEM 1.4 or slightly higher as well.


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> I haven't tried it yet. I am trying to stabilize higher clock with 13-13-13 setting since the only good thing of gear 1 for me is latency, not bandwidth.
> I stabilized 3900-13-13-13 and its latency is 35.4ns. 3920-13-14-14 is worse than 3900-13-13-13 at latency. I will see what my ram can do more.
> It's 1 am here. so time to bed^^


Have you tried tRAS 14 instead of 15?
Maybe it's stable, since you do 13-13 or 13-14.
Not like me 14-15 and that's why tRAS 15 is the minimum for me.


----------



## cstkl1

rgb is really handy to see the distro bleeding correctly


----------



## Groove2013

@Lownage what's the RAM kit you're using?


----------



## Groove2013

@Lownage have you done what's described in section nr.1 and 3?








Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


5.4 f 普




www.overclock.net


----------



## Neon Knights

satinghostrider said:


> Sounds alot like Singapore weather now lol.


short offtopic please, are you also on star wars squadrons ? because of your avatar


----------



## sharkcohen

I have an 11700K and I'm trying to get to 5.0GHz all core, but the best it will do is 4.9 (with 5.0 2 core), above that it isn't stable. I've been playing with the core voltage and the LLC levels. I have a TUF z590, its BIOS doesn't show SP of the processor or the v/f curve, but I seem to have all the same settings that I've read about in this thread. My cooler is an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360. I'm happy with 4.9, and I don't expect to get much higher with my setup, but 5.0 would be nice. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> 3920 going down from 4000 or going up from 3866?
> SA 1.45 might help and IO MEM 1.4 or slightly higher as well.


If posted with screenshot with the below info, it can be easily distinguished.
My 3920 is going up from 3866 and it can be told by my info below.

From TurboV Core, BCLK Frequency is 101.40
From AIDA64, CPU Multiplier is 52X, and CPU Clock is 5271.1Mhz.
This is why I usually show every info, to be helpful to the community.
Especially I think the video thing tells more info than the screenshot during running HCI.
People can actually see what's going on during the stabilization process.

tRAS 14 is also possible. but unfortunately for me, tRAS 14 or 28 doesn't make any difference to the performance.


----------



## Groove2013

Yeah, I was too fast. Haven't paid attention...
If it makes no difference, but 14 is not a problem, looks better )))


----------



## sugi0lover

a little more OC with 32GB Kit
- 3960-13-14-14-28-265-2T (Gear 1)

The required SA suddenly goes up from 3920MhzC13.
I will see high much higher ram clock can go up with CL13 setting.


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover wow, that a pretty high tRFC (265) for 3960 MHz vs. 215 for 3920 MHz!

And substantial SA increase as well.

Maybe try something between 3920 and 3960 MHz, so you still have 13-14, but tRFC lower than 265 and SA lower than 1.52.

Low as possible tRFC improves FPS in games.

tCL 13 at 3960 is only 1.5% better than at 3900.
tRCD/tRTP 14 at 3960 is only 2.5% better than at 3920.

But tRFC 265 at 3960 is already 21% worse than 215 at 3920.

Better tRFC brings more FPS in games than better tCL, tRCD and tRP all 3 of them combined together.

Especially that you even didn't have to increase tCL, tRCD and tRP at all, just raised the frequency for them a little bit.

Maybe try to do as high frequency as possible with tRFC 215 or as high as possible, so that tRFC doesn't move too much away from 215.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover wow, that a pretty high tRFC (265) for 3960 MHz vs. 215 for 3920 MHz!
> 
> And substantial SA increase as well.
> 
> Maybe try something between 3920 and 3960 MHz, so you still have 13-14, but tRFC lower than 265 and SA lower than 1.52.
> 
> Low as possible tRFC improves FPS in games.
> 
> tCL 13 at 3960 is only 1.5% better than at 3900.
> tRCD/tRTP 14 at 3960 is only 2.5% better than at 3920.
> 
> But tRFC 265 at 3960 is already 21% worse than 215 at 3920.
> 
> Better tRFC brings more FPS in games than better tCL, tRCD and tRP all 3 of them combined together.
> 
> Especially that you even didn't have to increase tCL, tRCD and tRP at all, just raised the frequency for them a little bit.
> 
> Maybe try to do as high frequency as possible with tRFC 215 or as high as possible, so that tRFC doesn't move too much away from 215.


Thanks for your advice. 3960 13 14 14 14 215 is also possible. All my ocing now is jusy work-in-process, so it will be optimzed at the end. Unfortunately my weekend is almost over, so I can't spend much time during the week. I will share my result.


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover do you think that such low tRFC is thanks to 4000 CL14 kit itself and any of such kits could potentially do +- same low tRFC or is it that maybe specific to your exact sample of 4000 CL14 kit?


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> If posted with screenshot with the below info, it can be easily distinguished.
> My 3920 is going up from 3866 and it can be told by my info below.
> 
> From TurboV Core, BCLK Frequency is 101.40
> From AIDA64, CPU Multiplier is 52X, and CPU Clock is 5271.1Mhz.
> This is why I usually show every info, to be helpful to the community.
> Especially I think the video thing tells more info than the screenshot during running HCI.
> People can actually see what's going on during the stabilization process.
> 
> tRAS 14 is also possible. but unfortunately for me, tRAS 14 or 28 doesn't make any difference to the performance.


yeah bro. i am planning to do a two page guide /thesis for ppl on "dunmmy" guide for screenshot .


Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover wow, that a pretty high tRFC (265) for 3960 MHz vs. 215 for 3920 MHz!
> 
> And substantial SA increase as well.


202 is the the theoretical low for tcl 13
218 is for tcl 14


Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover wow, that a pretty high tRFC (265) for 3960 MHz vs. 215 for 3920 MHz!
> 
> And substantial SA increase as well.
> 
> Maybe try something between 3920 and 3960 MHz, so you still have 13-14, but tRFC lower than 265 and SA lower than 1.52.
> 
> Low as possible tRFC improves FPS in games.
> 
> tCL 13 at 3960 is only 1.5% better than at 3900.
> tRCD/tRTP 14 at 3960 is only 2.5% better than at 3920.
> 
> But tRFC 265 at 3960 is already 21% worse than 215 at 3920.
> 
> Better tRFC brings more FPS in games than better tCL, tRCD and tRP all 3 of them combined together.
> 
> Especially that you even didn't have to increase tCL, tRCD and tRP at all, just raised the frequency for them a little bit.
> 
> Maybe try to do as high frequency as possible with tRFC 215 or as high as possible, so that tRFC doesn't move too much away from 215.


no. you reading some dufus zen idiot guide theory

bdie requires a low trfc to stabilize its timings
as for the math of it is pretty simple as its based of main timing. 

still no screenshot eh. guess its all bs.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover do you think that such low tRFC is thanks to 4000 CL14 kit itself and any of such kits could potentially do +- same low tRFC or is it that maybe specific to your exact sample of 4000 CL14 kit?


By increment of 5, the lowest tRFC of my 32GB kit is 205. 200 can't be booted.
All below kits I had with 11900K could do 205.
4000 cl15 SR 16GB kit and two 4000 cl14 SR 16G kits


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> By increment of 5, the lowest tRFC of my 32GB kit is 205. 200 can't be booted.
> All below kits I had with 11900K could do 205.
> 4000 cl15 SR 16GB kit and two 4000 cl14 SR 16G kits
> View attachment 2523842


But can there be a difference in tRFC between 2 same model kits?
I think yes?


----------



## Lownage

Groove2013 said:


> @Lownage what's the RAM kit you're using?





Groove2013 said:


> @Lownage have you done what's described in section nr.1 and 3?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> 5.4 f 普
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


f4-4000c14d-32gtrs is the kit im using

Yes, did that already. 

Will settle with 3866-13-14-14 for now. Anything higher needs way too much voltage or uses uneven bclk which lowers CPU/Cache clock  
Bclk @ 102 + 3866 multi doesnt boot. Same for 98 + 4000 multi


----------



## Groove2013

@Lownage I can't do tCKE 4 and tWR 8 with my 3800 CL14 kit.
tRFC lowest it works stable is only 236.

Really want 4000 CL14 kit, but $$$ + since I already have my 3800 CL14 doing 3963 14-15-15, hard to justify for myself.

But maybe later I still will buy 4000 CL14.

My 3800 CL14 can't do 14-14-14 even at 3866.

tWR 9 passed stability test.
tCKE even 6 gave an error after 3.5 hrs in Karhu.
So now testing tCKE 7.
8 works no problem.

Maybe tWR 8 and tCKE 4 is possible thanks to 4000 CL14 kit, who knows...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @Lownage I can't do tCKE 4 and tWR 8 with my 3800 CL14 kit.
> tRFC lowest it works stable is only 236.
> 
> Really want 4000 CL14 kit, but $$$ + since I already have my 3800 CL14 doing 3963 14-15-15, hard to justify for myself.
> 
> But maybe later I still will buy 4000 CL14.
> 
> My 3800 CL14 can't do 14-14-14 even at 3866.
> 
> tWR 9 passed stability test.
> tCKE even 6 gave an error after 3.5 hrs in Karhu.
> So now testing tCKE 7.
> 8 works no problem.
> 
> Maybe tWR 8 and tCKE 4 is possible thanks to 4000 CL14 kit, who knows...


When are you going to post screenshots? I am in the middle of a case transplant and I’m excited to try your timings afterwards.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> When are you going to post screenshots? I am in the middle of a case transplant and I’m excited to try your timings afterwards.


When I have time to find all stable timings.
In few days, I think.


----------



## Groove2013

this is what I have to finish.


----------



## Groove2013

@0451 I don't understand why do you want to try my timings if I have a worse bin kit, thus worse timings.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @0451 I don't understand why do you want to try my timings if I have a worse bin kit, thus worse timings.


I haven’t stabilized c13 yet. Also if your kit was released before 4kc14 was released, it could be a similar quality bin.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I haven’t stabilized c13 yet. Also if your kit was released before 4kc14 was released, it could be a similar quality bin.


Well, the sticker says Jan 2021.
And quality is not similar, since it can't do 13-14-14 even at 3866.
Even 14-14-14 at 3866 doesn't work.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Well, the sticker says Jan 2021.
> And quality is not similar, since it can't do 13-14-14 even at 3866.
> Even 14-14-14 at 3866 doesn't work.


Oh I forgot what your primaries are. Btw I hope you aren’t starting with my timings as they are far from optimized. I’ve spent about 2 hours tuning the kit total.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Oh I forgot what your primaries are. Btw I hope you aren’t starting with my timings as they are far from optimized. I’ve spent about 2 hours tuning the kit total.


I use nobodies timings.
Doing timing by timing myself, since difference in IMC, kits' models and kit's bins.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> this is what I have to finish.
> View attachment 2523847





Groove2013 said:


> I use nobodies timings.
> Doing timing by timing myself, since difference in IMC, kits' models and kit's bins.


Oh these looked like mine. Perhaps great minds think alike 😉


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Oh these looked like mine. Perhaps great minds think alike 😉


Well, there can't be that many possibilities.
So yes, a lot of timings are same.


----------



## Groove2013

This is how it looks, for now.


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Hey guys, 

Please stay on topic.


----------



## cstkl1

1usmusV3 is my bane .. expecting this to error out

always finds issue where hci/karhu cant for high ram clock.


----------



## Groove2013

tCL & tCWL are 14 & 14 and the formula says tCL-tCWL+10 is what tRDWR should be.
So 14-14+10=10.
But I'm now testing tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr, _dd 9, 9, 9, 9, instead of 10, 10, 12, 12 at auto.
So 1 value lower than as per formula and so far it's still testing without any errors already 60 minutes Karhu RAM Test.
2 values lower than as per formula - ni boot, in my case.

Improves copy bandwidth.

I see that @sugi0lover also has all 4 tRDWR values lower by 1 value than as per formula.

@0451 @Neon Knights @Lownage


----------



## sugi0lover

a little more oc with SA voltage under 1.50v.
already 1:00am here... I shouldn't do this anymore ^^


Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Memory OC : 3940Mhz-13-14-14-14-215-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.490v / Mem OC IO 1.420v


----------



## yahfz

sugi0lover said:


> a little more oc with SA voltage under 1.50v.
> already 1:00am here... I shouldn't do this anymore ^^
> 
> 
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Memory OC : 3940Mhz-13-14-14-14-215-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.490v / Mem OC IO 1.420v


Damn, that's really good. Any way you can bench tombraider at those settings?


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover 3940 MHz is only %1 better than 3900 MHz.
tRFC 215 @3940 vs. 215 @3900 is only 1% better than @3900.

But!

13 @3900 is 6.67 ns whereas 14 @3940 is 7.11 ns.
So 7.11 ns @3940 is 6.6% worse than 6.67 ns @3900.

So you win only 1% in frequency and 1% tRFC, but you lose 6.67% for tRCD & tRP.

Or is 13-13-13 not stable @3900 MHz and that's why you now have 13-14-14, but with 1% higher frequency?


----------



## Zdenal

cstkl1 said:


> @bscool1
> @Groove2013
> 
> 1007-M13apex-51|46- 3866c14
> 
> this is a slightly easier to pass hci on high temp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1007-M13A-3866C14HCI.CMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lower temp can revert back to 24/19 with tighter twr.


Many thanks for the BIOS, works wonderfully!


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover 3940 MHz is only %1 better than 3900 MHz.
> tRFC 215 @3940 vs. 215 @3900 is only 1% better than @3900.
> 
> But!
> 
> 13 @3900 is 6.67 ns whereas 14 @3940 is 7.11 ns.
> So 7.11 ns @3940 is 6.6% worse than 6.67 ns @3900.
> 
> So you win only 1% in frequency and 1% tRFC, but you lose 6.67% for tRCD & tRP.
> 
> Or is 13-13-13 not stable @3900 MHz and that's why you now have 13-14-14, but with 1% higher frequency?


I am having experiments with a couple of settings. I know what I am doing as I have posted my oc here, so don't worry.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> tCL & tCWL are 14 & 14 and the formula says tCL-tCWL+10 is what tRDWR should be.
> So 14-14+10=10.
> But I'm now testing tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr, _dd 9, 9, 9, 9, instead of 10, 10, 12, 12 at auto.
> So 1 value lower than as per formula and so far it's still testing without any errors already 60 minutes Karhu RAM Test.
> 2 values lower than as per formula - ni boot, in my case.
> 
> Improves copy bandwidth.
> 
> I see that @sugi0lover also has all 4 tRDWR values lower by 1 value than as per formula.
> 
> @0451 @Neon Knights @Lownage


That's just an indication of how your tRDWR is running. tCL-tCWL<0(>0) means your tRDWR actually runs slower(faster) than your bios set, or tCL-tCWL=0 means your tRDWR runs exactly as your bios set.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> tCL & tCWL are 14 & 14 and the formula says tCL-tCWL+10 is what tRDWR should be.
> So 14-14+10=10.
> But I'm now testing tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr, _dd 9, 9, 9, 9, instead of 10, 10, 12, 12 at auto.
> So 1 value lower than as per formula and so far it's still testing without any errors already 60 minutes Karhu RAM Test.
> 2 values lower than as per formula - ni boot, in my case.
> 
> Improves copy bandwidth.
> 
> I see that @sugi0lover also has all 4 tRDWR values lower by 1 value than as per formula.
> 
> @0451 @Neon Knights @Lownage


I don't actually know math.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That's just an indication of how your tRDWR is running. tCL-tCWL<0(>0) means your tRDWR actually runs slower(faster) than your bios set, or tCL-tCWL=0 means your tRDWR runs exactly as your bios set.


see the danger bro when ppl are armed with profiles they dont understand how the algos were tested

its dangerous to explain to such a person.
they then think they can go mass teaching from reading the net.
best thing they have zero proof of anything cause they dont understand.

they think these timings like these were obtain from lowering. lol


----------



## cstkl1

11900k 51|46 LLC4
M13A - Bios 0801
2x8gb 3940 14-14-14-28

@sugi0lover
yeah i see what u mean bro. only increase in bandwidth. latency not much improvement
rtl gone up 59/60 @3866 to 60/60

3866 from 3733 had more than 1ns drop
but dont see this happening even at 4k vs 3866
3940 vs 3866 only dropped 0.2ns rtl went up.










14-15 will be much worse.
13-14 is the way, latency and rtl will be on track same from 3866 14-14


----------



## cstkl1

3940c13-14
rtl 58/59


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## murenitu

I already got the box! I still have a few days left for the magnitude block in rma and I have asked for a thermal pad for the 1080 you I saw a broken one! So I don't think I will mount anything until I have everything ready

do you have any idea about the lot? does anyone have any similar?


----------



## Clausewitz

murenitu said:


> I already got the box! I still have a few days left for the magnitude block in rma and I have asked for a thermal pad for the 1080 you I saw a broken one! So I don't think I will mount anything until I have everything ready
> 
> do you have any idea about the lot? does anyone have any similar?


Most of the current CPU batches have been SP 49 - 50 for some reason. Let us know what you get.


----------



## murenitu

of course, have no doubt!

I suspect that this batch, even being received today, has had to be in the warehouses for a long time ...


----------



## CluckyTaco

Hi, I finally got all the parts for my new build. I am not finding any reliable guides to overclock my 11900k on an ASUS board. Can someone point me in the right direction?. Most of the YouTube videos only show like with cryotec cooling and whatnot. I have an SP of 87 and I’m liquid cooling the cpu via an Optimus block if that is of any relevance.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Does Gear 2 memory overclocking affect stable core OC at high core and memory frequency? I want to get some weigh-ins before I start trying Gear 2.


----------



## cstkl1

CluckyTaco said:


> Hi, I finally got all the parts for my new build. I am not finding any reliable guides to overclock my 11900k on an ASUS board. Can someone point me in the right direction?. Most of the YouTube videos only show like with cryotec cooling and whatnot. I have an SP of 87 and I’m liquid cooling the cpu via an Optimus block if that is of any relevance.


start with Sync all core 51


0451 said:


> Does Gear 2 memory overclocking affect stable core OC at high core and memory frequency? I want to get some weigh-ins before I start trying Gear 2.


4900 onwards with low tcl is not easy with cache 46,47


----------



## ViTosS




----------



## CluckyTaco

cstkl1 said:


> start with Sync all core 51


Tried that and max I could hit was all core 5.1. I played around with AI overclock and I still hit the same wall. From cpuz stress test I can see that core 1 is limiting me with 5200 whilst all the rest 7 cores can hit 5300. Also in the ASUS bios it shows that core 2 & 3 are my best cores. Now how do I achieve at least 5.2Ghz all core? Am I thinking this right? I would also like to improve the clocks for the 2 best cores. Online people have reached 5.6ghz so maybe it can be done. I really miss the good old days where overclocking was a bit more fun.


----------



## cstkl1

CluckyTaco said:


> Tried that and max I could hit was all core 5.1. I played around with AI overclock and I still hit the same wall. From cpuz stress test I can see that core 1 is limiting me with 5200 whilst all the rest 7 cores can hit 5300. Also in the ASUS bios it shows that core 2 & 3 are my best cores. Now how do I achieve at least 5.2Ghz all core? Am I thinking this right? I would also like to improve the clocks for the 2 best cores. Online people have reached 5.6ghz so maybe it can be done. I really miss the good old days where overclocking was a bit more fun.


if ure a gaming comp only

best performance is with 51|46
its superb

cons no more cstate and you be idling much higher


----------



## Bakuya

Sorry bit i think discussion run away fron sp bins and etc regarding CPU.

Only see ram timings.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> Sorry bit i think discussion run away fron sp bins and etc regarding CPU.
> 
> Only see ram timings.


because 11900k oc pretty simple
works or doesnt

and cache has to be with all cstate off. manual vcore

it only bsods one kind no semi etc.


----------



## Bakuya

Clausewitz said:


> Most of the current CPU batches have been SP 49 - 50 for some reason. Let us know what you get.


I w


cstkl1 said:


> because 11900k oc pretty simple
> works or doesnt
> 
> and cache has to be with all cstate off. manual vcore
> 
> it only bsods one kind no semi etc.


Wery good to know this info, but many talks about sp50 from all new batches, is this true?

I thinking about replace mine becouse doing bad at ram and self oc.

1.7Vcore for 5.3 its s... cpu i think.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> I w
> 
> Wery good to know this info, but many talks about sp50 from all new batches, is this true?
> 
> I thinking about replace mine becouse doing bad at ram and self oc.
> 
> 1.7Vcore for 5.3 its s... cpu i think.


so far based on @0451 cpus and some from @satinghostrider
i think u can ignore it.
its troublesome for stock gaming. cause the vid for 5.2-5.3 boosting is stupid high (1.7v)


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series 1102 BETA BIOS*

1. Bug fix
2. Microcode Update

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1102

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1102

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1102


----------



## Bakuya

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2524175
> 
> 
> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series 1102 BETA BIOS*
> 
> 1. Bug fix
> 2. Microcode Update
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1102
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1102
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1102


Intresting in any imorovements.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Guys over at EVGA counted (4) with Z590 Dark boards who returned their Gskill 5333Mhz kits because they could not boot XMP.

The common thought in the thread seems to be the Rocket Lake CPU's IMCs are to blame even though the Z590 Dark board is not listed on the mem kit's QVL.









F4-5333C22D-16GTES - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-5333C22D-16GTES. Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-5333 CL22-32-32-52 1.60V 16GB (2x8GB).




www.gskill.com





Not understanding why the mem kit's QVL only lists Asus Z590 boards and no other manufacturers, doesn't make any sense unless it's a simple business handshake between Asus and Gskill OR they've only gotten around to testing/validating the 5333kits on the Asus boards.

Thought you fine most knowledgeable gents might have an answer. 

I have the Z390 Dark, and considered the Z590 Dark but it arrived so late and could not find it listed on the Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit or the Hynix 5333/22 kit's QVL, so picked up the M13A instead.


----------



## Bakuya

Not correct thread for this post but still, my hero xiii dropping USB ports sometimes and fix only to Clear CMOS.

Rma or?
Read many forums even extreme have this problem.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> Guys over at EVGA counted (4) with Z590 Dark boards who returned their Gskill 5333Mhz kits because they could not boot XMP.
> 
> The common thought in the thread seems to be the Rocket Lake CPU's IMCs are to blame even though the Z590 Dark board is not listed on the mem kit's QVL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-5333C22D-16GTES - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-5333C22D-16GTES. Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-5333 CL22-32-32-52 1.60V 16GB (2x8GB).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not understanding why the mem kit's QVL only lists Asus Z590 boards and no other manufacturers, doesn't make any sense unless it's a simple business handshake between Asus and Gskill OR they've only gotten around to testing/validating the 5333kits on the Asus boards.
> 
> Thought you fine most knowledgeable gents might have an answer.
> 
> I have the Z390 Dark, and considered the Z590 Dark but it arrived so late and could not find it listed on the Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit or the Hynix 5333/22 kit's QVL, so picked up the M13A instead.


cause @shamino1978 spent ALOT of time tuning djr
to the point even djr DR does 5200


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> Not correct thread for this post but still, my hero xiii dropping USB ports sometimes and fix only to Clear CMOS.
> 
> Rma or?
> Read many forums even extreme have this problem.


odd. 
there was one bios flash with a bad ram bsod screwed it up. 

i fixed it by rebuilding windows boot. 

did u bsod often on your ram tuning especially gear 1?


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> odd.
> there was one bios flash with a bad ram bsod screwed it up.
> 
> i fixed it by rebuilding windows boot.
> 
> did u bsod often on your ram tuning especially gear 1?


Ye i have bsod's but when overclock, if run defoult no bsod.

Usb ports dropping even at bios load screen, i see keyboard do not light up.

But if i remember correctly it happened after bios update.

How to rebuild windows boot and can it help me?

I tried to reflash bios in diffrent way and diffrent wersions and no fix for me.

Tried flashback and ezflash utility.


----------



## cstkl1

@Bakuya


Bakuya said:


> Ye i have bsod's but when overclock, if run defoult no bsod.
> 
> Usb ports dropping even at bios load screen, i see keyboard do not light up.
> 
> But if i remember correctly it happened after bios update.
> 
> How to rebuild windows boot and can it help me?
> 
> I tried to reflash bios in diffrent way and diffrent wersions and no fix for me.
> 
> Tried flashback and ezflash utility.


btw i had it on m13e frequently
ah. u got to rebuild the bcd

the only os not affected by this is ghost spectre.

normal efi windows always.


----------



## cstkl1

@Bakuya
dont hold me responsible if you are not sure
what you are doing








How to Repair EFI/GPT Bootloader on Windows 10 or 11? | Windows OS Hub


In this article, we will learn how to repair the Windows bootloader on a modern computer that uses UEFI instead of a classic BIOS and GPT disk partition table (instead…



woshub.com





this the guide for efi install

its a 1-2 min fix. not difficult


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> @Bakuya
> 
> btw i had it on m13e frequently
> ah. u got to rebuild the bcd
> 
> the only os not affected by this is ghost spectre.
> 
> normal efi windows always.


So windows can affect usb even at bios?

Thank you a lot for answer!


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> @Bakuya
> dont hold me responsible if you are not sure
> what you are doing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Repair EFI/GPT Bootloader on Windows 10 or 11? | Windows OS Hub
> 
> 
> In this article, we will learn how to repair the Windows bootloader on a modern computer that uses UEFI instead of a classic BIOS and GPT disk partition table (instead…
> 
> 
> 
> woshub.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this the guide for efi install
> 
> its a 1-2 min fix. not difficult


I try 3 diffrent windows version and ReviOS, nothing changed.

Try ssd secure erase and etc.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> So windows can affect usb even at bios?
> 
> Thank you a lot for answer!


yes. happens on bad bsod

the usb loads slowly

i would clear all the efi keys in bios also and run none
until your system is perfect


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> I try 3 diffrent windows version and ReviOS, nothing changed.
> 
> Try ssd secure erase and etc.


is all the windows based on one bcd on one ssd? meaning u have multiple windows in one computer?
if yes
did you install windows on another ssd while the other windows ssd was plug in?


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> cause @shamino1978 spent ALOT of time tuning djr
> to the point even djr DR does 5200


Wow, 5200Mhz DR, wow!

So it's possible the Z590 Dark might run 5333, 5600, 5866 with bios updates? OR it might never happen?

Cuz, these guys over at EVGA are RMA'ing the 5333kits, Gskill sending them brand new kits and yea - like duh, it still ain't happening.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> Wow, 5200Mhz DR, wow!
> 
> So it's possible the Z590 Dark might run 5333, 5600, 5866 with bios updates? OR it might never happen?
> 
> Cuz, these guys over at EVGA are RMA'ing the 5333kits, Gskill sending them brand new kits and yea - like duh, it still ain't happening.


tuning. alot of tuning required. see djr dr for example. even asus strix z590 does dr 5066 (gskill supppsed to have launched it)


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - 51|45
M13A - Bios 1007
2x8gb [email protected]


5066 is inconsistent
. brute forced this to pass hci









too much yappin in ocn of late,

cache 46 wont work with 5k

back to testing and posting ss.


----------



## cstkl1

is it me or bios 1102 sa and mcio now droops the same again on llc sa auto.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> is all the windows based on one bcd on one ssd? meaning u have multiple windows in one computer?
> if yes
> did you install windows on another ssd while the other windows ssd was plug in?


Nope , i reinstall them.


----------



## cstkl1

1102 sa/io now lowered i think. still testing


----------



## cstkl1

ucode 4c
3866 SR bdie read gone up for me


----------



## D-EJ915

Bakuya said:


> Nope , i reinstall them.


Could be motherboard or cpu, I would RMA motherboard first though. For me, rocket lake has more problems than any cpu I've used in a long time. I have 4 11900ks and when I switch between them I have to use a 10900k sometimes otherwise some will not post and get stuck at random post codes and clear cmos or cmos flashback doesn't help. Doesn't matter which board I use either, tachyon, unify, dark, etc. lol There were several people in other threads talking about "bricking" their motherboards too, most likely they were running into this problem. I spent a few hours a week ago screwing around with this and eventually figured my 10900k would "reset" the boards. This ignoring the whole intel ethernet firmware thing lol, I had to manually flash the firmwares on my boards so I could even use the ethernet port.

With all of that being said, it is probably motherboard issue if usb since the controllers for that are still on the board if everything else is working fine.


----------



## cstkl1

wait a minute. i ran 1n


----------



## cstkl1

D-EJ915 said:


> Could be motherboard or cpu, I would RMA motherboard first though. For me, rocket lake has more problems than any cpu I've used in a long time. I have 4 11900ks and when I switch between them I have to use a 10900k sometimes otherwise some will not post and get stuck at random post codes and clear cmos or cmos flashback doesn't help. Doesn't matter which board I use either, tachyon, unify, dark, etc. lol There were several people in other threads talking about "bricking" their motherboards too, most likely they were running into this problem. I spent a few hours a week ago screwing around with this and eventually figured my 10900k would "reset" the boards. This ignoring the whole intel ethernet firmware thing lol, I had to manually flash the firmwares on my boards so I could even use the ethernet port.
> 
> With all of that being said, it is probably motherboard issue if usb since the controllers for that are still on the board if everything else is working fine.


i cant say for hero

but on extreme. confirmed. spend easily 1500-2000hrs with that board. 

bad ram oc bsod cause usb slow down ok boot. the fix was first make sure all efi keys are cleared. rebuild bcd. did it dozens of time

only ghost spectre compact doesnt have this problem.


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> i cant say for hero
> 
> but on extreme. confirmed. spend easily 1500-2000hrs with that board.
> 
> bad ram oc bsod cause usb slow down ok boot. the fix was first make sure all efi keys are cleared. rebuild bcd. did it dozens of time
> 
> only ghost spectre compact doesnt have this problem.


I've spent about 80hrs with the Apex 13 so far. Thanks to Shamino 5600 and 5866 simple XMP are a 3minute overclock. 

XMP
Memory Frequency from 5333 to 5600
DRAM volts from 1.600 to 1.650v

that's it.

*Any oc tuning advantages with the Extreme board over the Apex? *


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> i cant say for hero
> 
> but on extreme. confirmed. spend easily 1500-2000hrs with that board.
> 
> bad ram oc bsod cause usb slow down ok boot. the fix was first make sure all efi keys are cleared. rebuild bcd. did it dozens of time
> 
> only ghost spectre compact doesnt have this problem.


good to know


----------



## murenitu

guys a big disappointment sp50 ... literally ... worst cpu i have ever had!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

murenitu said:


> guys a big disappointment sp50 ... literally ... worst cpu i have ever had!


Did you actually try overclocking it? SP50 here.


----------



## murenitu

Estoy totalmente perdido en esta plataforma, ¡ni siquiera sé por dónde empezar!

en clasificación indica 1.7v para 5.3 ....!

No tengo muy claro por donde debo empezar


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Your English is probably better than my Spanish but I’ll have a go.

Tu sabes como overclock manuela? Si? Increaseamente el voltado y el multiplier incrementamente.


----------



## Clausewitz

Has anyone tried the 1102 BIOS yet and what does it fix?


----------



## sugi0lover

murenitu said:


> guys a big disappointment sp50 ... literally ... worst cpu i have ever had!


SP of two 11900K purchased recently (not by me)
The guy who has sp50 bought 7 11900k and only one 11900k is 70s and the other 6 are sp50.


----------



## cstkl1

Clausewitz said:


> Has anyone tried the 1102 BIOS yet and what does it fix?


u can do 3866 1n stable in 1102


----------



## murenitu

si claro eso si se hacerlo! pero no tengo ni la mas remota idea de como poner la ram ajustada! solo he probado un poco por encima y tengo 60ns de latencia ... es un desastre!

a lo largo de estos dias ire publicando, pero este ordenador sera algo temporal estoy pensando en comprarme algo montado con una gpu ya instalada, que son imposibles de encontrar.

Quereis decir que hay un monton de SP50? no se si eso es malo o bueno ....

realice una simple prueba quite los tiempos de los PL, deslimite los ajustes de intel y encendi con LLC2 tal cual "estaba en automatico y se queda colgado tengo que subirlo a LLC4, sino no funciona! imagino que esto sera normal porque ya se "considera OC" al no cumplir los parametros de intel


----------



## cstkl1

actually nvr tested bios before can do 1N of not

was a accident cause i loaded my 5k tuning
forgot to change the cmd

ran 3866 sa/io 1.35


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> I've spent about 80hrs with the Apex 13 so far. Thanks to Shamino 5600 and 5866 simple XMP are a 3minute overclock.
> 
> XMP
> Memory Frequency from 5333 to 5600
> DRAM volts from 1.600 to 1.650v
> 
> that's it.
> 
> *Any oc tuning advantages with the Extreme board over the Apex? *


more port, better quality, uses more sa/io,
makes other ppl jelly, cost 2x more,
superb oled, can put insane amount of fans,


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> u can do 3866 1n stable in 1102





cstkl1 said:


> actually nvr tested bios before can do 1N of not
> 
> was a accident cause i loaded my 5k tuning
> forgot to change the cmd
> 
> ran 3866 sa/io 1.35


so the previous bios before 1102 can't be stabilized at 3866 1n? 
io/sa can be lowered too?
Then 1102 is a big improvement. eager to test it tonight~
ASUS never stops ^^


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> so the previous bios before 1102 can't be stabilized at 3866 1n?
> io/sa can be lowered too?
> Then 1102 is a big improvement. eager to test it tonight~
> ASUS never stops ^^


i cant remember for sr. dr i know couldnt. 

io/sa lowered.. so far looks like it. havent tested fully. it feels like 07xx bios where sa/io was lower.


----------



## Bakuya

murenitu said:


> guys a big disappointment sp50 ... literally ... worst cpu i have ever had!


Today i get second 11900k and test sp.

Previsious was 49/50 depends on bios.


----------



## D-EJ915

Newegg ebay has them for 510 dollars right now if anybody was wanting to pick up some extras, not as cheap as microcenter but is cheaper than it's been.


----------



## murenitu

Bakuya said:


> Today i get second 11900k and test sp.
> 
> Previsious was 49/50 depends on bios.


I don't know if that is good or bad, because there is so much sp50, something must be conflicting with the algorithm?

because according to you tell me there is sp50 cpus with good data?

How could that happen?

My cpu seems bad or at least I suspect that, removing the intel parameters and applying enforce limits with the automatic setting in LLC2 and applying adjustments in pl times to the maximum so that this without time limit in PL1, PL2 the micro is not capable not even a CPUZ test.

I have to change LLC to manual and set it to LLC4 or it doesn't work.

Can this be normal?

It is of the utmost importance to me because I come from a 10900k with similar problems and I had to suspect it was a faulty 10900k CPU or a bad Formula XII VRM.

So I have to check the equation of the board and make sure it works correctly.


----------



## cstkl1

murenitu said:


> I don't know if that is good or bad, because there is so much sp50, something must be conflicting with the algorithm?
> 
> because according to you tell me there is sp50 cpus with good data?
> 
> How could that happen?
> 
> My cpu seems bad or at least I suspect that, removing the intel parameters and applying enforce limits with the automatic setting in LLC2 and applying adjustments in pl times to the maximum so that this without time limit in PL1, PL2 the micro is not capable not even a CPUZ test.
> 
> I have to change LLC to manual and set it to LLC4 or it doesn't work.
> 
> Can this be normal?
> 
> It is of the utmost importance to me because I come from a 10900k with similar problems and I had to suspect it was a faulty 10900k CPU or a bad Formula XII VRM.
> 
> So I have to check the equation of the board and make sure it works correctly.


afaik formula LL is not the same as apex/extreme and z590 hero.

cause last time i tested Formula LLC5 was similar to extreme LLC6

if u look at the v/f.. its only 5.2 and 5.3 is affected 
try reducing it offset to the norm 1.52

maybe intel did some weird vid


----------



## snoopycute98

Ambient Temperature : 32Celsius (Hot temperature in Malaysia)
NH-D15S single fan, Asrock Z590 Steel Legend and 11700K OC-ed to 4.7GHz all core, -50mv offset, Power limit unlocked, running at 190W load.

Core temperature at around 84 celsius spike, should I be worried? What can I do to improve my temps?

Edit: Using iGPU as there's shortage in Graphic cards.


----------



## Bakuya

murenitu said:


> I don't know if that is good or bad, because there is so much sp50, something must be conflicting with the algorithm?
> 
> because according to you tell me there is sp50 cpus with good data?
> 
> How could that happen?
> 
> My cpu seems bad or at least I suspect that, removing the intel parameters and applying enforce limits with the automatic setting in LLC2 and applying adjustments in pl times to the maximum so that this without time limit in PL1, PL2 the micro is not capable not even a CPUZ test.
> 
> I have to change LLC to manual and set it to LLC4 or it doesn't work.
> 
> Can this be normal?
> 
> It is of the utmost importance to me because I come from a 10900k with similar problems and I had to suspect it was a faulty 10900k CPU or a bad Formula XII VRM.
> 
> So I have to check the equation of the board and make sure it works correctly.


I recieve ne cpu will test later, old sp50 is terrible, pulls out around 300w on cinebench r23.
Max frequency i see under load is 4.9. On Custom wc loop with 420 and 360 rad 45mm and only for CPU i saw even 89C temps on highest core.

Must be max 80C i think if sp around 80

Wery bad cpu, working on defoult llc2 maximus xiii hero.

So i think if this one bad too i try another one.

Batch is china vg123 and old same but vg124.

I think new one same sh... but test as soon as i come home.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

C13 is definitely possible. I just need to work on the timings. This is of course with the latest Win 10 with all my games installed.

VDIMM 1.6
VCCSA 1.48
VCCIO 1.35
Mem VCCIO 1.45


----------



## murenitu

Do you mean that maybe my formula xii when putting llc4 would be applying an llc similar to llc5 on the z590 chipset?

the strange thing is that in automatic he is not able to configure himself to be stable and I have to apply a higher llc, he applies a totally stock llc2 with applied series settings.


----------



## murenitu

Bakuya said:


> I recieve ne cpu will test later, old sp50 is terrible, pulls out around 300w on cinebench r23.
> Max frequency i see under load is 4.9. On Custom wc loop with 420 and 360 rad 45mm and only for CPU i saw even 89C temps on highest core.
> 
> Must be max 80C i think if sp around 80
> 
> Wery bad cpu, working on defoult llc2 maximus xiii hero.
> 
> So i think if this one bad too i try another one.
> 
> Batch is china vg123 and old same but vg124.
> 
> I think new one same sh... but test as soon as i come home.


I have no other possibility to look for another 11900k.

I have only been able to buy 1 I can not afford to be looking for more 11900k to more than 500 € each.

I would like to but in my case it is a simple lottery, if it touches me it touches me but I have no choice but to put up with it.

the funny thing is that there are people who say that the sp50s are not so bad. or at least not always follow the same norm.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


----------



## Bakuya

murenitu said:


> I have no other possibility to look for another 11900k.
> 
> I have only been able to buy 1 I can not afford to be looking for more 11900k to more than 500 € each.
> 
> I would like to but in my case it is a simple lottery, if it touches me it touches me but I have no choice but to put up with it.
> 
> the funny thing is that there are people who say that the sp50s are not so bad. or at least not always follow the same norm.
> 
> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


If thi


murenitu said:


> I have no other possibility to look for another 11900k.
> 
> I have only been able to buy 1 I can not afford to be looking for more 11900k to more than 500 € each.
> 
> I would like to but in my case it is a simple lottery, if it touches me it touches me but I have no choice but to put up with it.
> 
> the funny thing is that there are people who say that the sp50s are not so bad. or at least not always follow the same norm.
> 
> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


New one sp50 too but seems defoult vid is lower, need to check


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> more port, better quality, uses more sa/io,
> makes other ppl jelly, cost 2x more,
> superb oled, *can put insane amount of fans,*


Only one fan in the work build plus the GPU so most likely overkill for me, that OLED though - I love that. Still using an Aquaero 6 LT leftover from 2015, also overkill for a single fan build. lol 🤣

*Z590 Epiphenomenal Rocket Bench*
Primochill WetBench SX Pro test bench
Aquaero 6 LT fan controller
Seasonic TX-700 fanless titanium
11600K i5 SP79 5.5Ghz capable
M13Apex
Gskill F4-4800C17D-16GTRS Gskill F4-5333C22D-16GTES (shiny RAMs) 😃
WD_Black SN850 500GB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD
AMD WX-4100 workstation card
Noctua NH-P1 Passive/Active Cooler w/Noctua 2000rpm PWM industrial fan 800rpm
Benchmark Scores: 5.5Ghz Single Thread Cinebench R15 - 268 CPUZ ST - 704


----------



## Bakuya

So 1102 bios worth to upgrade?


----------



## sugi0lover

30min HCI test of new BIOS 1102~
It seems like it doesn't require high IO, SA anymore.

Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Memory OC : 3960Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.610v / IO 1.250v / SA 1.420v / Mem OC IO 1.350v


----------



## Bakuya

sugi0lover said:


> 30min HCI test of new BIOS 1102~
> It seems like it doesn't require high IO, SA anymore.
> 
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Memory OC : 3960Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.610v / IO 1.250v / SA 1.420v / Mem OC IO 1.350v
> 
> View attachment 2524267


What batch and sp you have?

Thank you.


----------



## Bakuya

So my new sp50 cant run more than 3200 ram in 1:1 mode))

Old one i can get 3800 c15


----------



## ViTosS

sugi0lover said:


> 30min HCI test of new BIOS 1102~
> It seems like it doesn't require high IO, SA anymore.
> 
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Memory OC : 3960Mhz-13-14-14-28-265-2T (1:1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.610v / IO 1.250v / SA 1.420v / Mem OC IO 1.350v
> 
> View attachment 2524267


Nice! Can you run Horizon Zero Dawn lowest settings 1080p 50% resolution scale?


----------



## Bakuya

Bakuya said:


> So my new sp50 cant run more than 3200 ram in 1:1 mode))
> 
> Old one i can get 3800 c15


So i cant roll back from 1102 bios, no mattet what i do.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> So my new sp50 cant run more than 3200 ram in 1:1 mode))
> 
> Old one i can get 3800 c15


i tested one os and tried to recreate the issue with ac / aura sync enabled on a semi stable ram
on comp hard restart. the usb thing kick in
was getting long code 98 delayed kb/mouse

So went to windows. unsync, uninstall with uninstaller ac. shutdown. reset at i/o

everything back to normal


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> So i cant roll back from 1102 bios, no mattet what i do.


you have to do it via i/o bios flashback


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> you have to do it via i/o bios flashback


I cant - light blinking two times and then stops - nothing happened.


----------



## Bakuya

Seems solved, tried back to 09 and cant, then 07 solved.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> i tested one os and tried to recreate the issue with ac / aura sync enabled on a semi stable ram
> on comp hard restart. the usb thing kick in
> was getting long code 98 delayed kb/mouse
> 
> So went to windows. unsync, uninstall with uninstaller ac. shutdown. reset at i/o
> 
> everything back to normal


I dont have aura software.

So no more than 3200 in 1:1 no matter what i do.

Imc bad?


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> I dont have aura software.
> 
> So no more than 3200 in 1:1 no matter what i do.
> 
> Imc bad?


i dont know. i always have ways to go arnd things. so not sure ure case.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> i dont know. i always have ways to go arnd things. so not sure ure case.


Tomorrow try another cpu, it's my last jump)))


----------



## Clausewitz

As someone stated earlier in this thread you can buy from Silicon Lottery and ask for a specific SP rating range.

Also, their bins are based on a 240mm radiator in any workload with more voltage added on for extra room. So when they say 5.0 it could probably do more.









Intel Rocket Lake


Binned Intel and AMD CPUs available at Silicon Lottery! The CPUs we sell are thoroughly tested for their maximum overclocking potential, so you know exactly what you're getting.




siliconlottery.com


----------



## murenitu

Bueno, perdona mi ignorancia con la décima plataforma, pero ¿aquí? ni idea.

Totalmente en stock solo con el tiempo de espera y el LLC4 ajustado. (de lo contrario, se cuelga).

¿dónde empiezo? ¿Qué tengo que hacer?

¿Me puede dar una mano? por ahora estoy buscando ayuda para "perfiles de cpu suave" y perfiles de ram "apretados", pero con voltajes tirando hacia "razonable" no me digas configuraciones con voltajes que bordean el "límite coherente".









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----------



## WebsterRKL

Clausewitz said:


> As someone stated earlier in this thread you can buy from Silicon Lottery and ask for a specific SP rating range.
> 
> Also, their bins are based on a 240mm radiator in any workload with more voltage added on for extra room. So when they say 5.0 it could probably do more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Rocket Lake
> 
> 
> Binned Intel and AMD CPUs available at Silicon Lottery! The CPUs we sell are thoroughly tested for their maximum overclocking potential, so you know exactly what you're getting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconlottery.com


Whaaaat? You can ask for an SP? When did this begin? I asked for a binned IMC back in April (and I was willing to pay an extra $100) and he said "that would be a NO" you simple low-life 11600K i5 scoundrel!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Whaaaat? You can ask for an SP? When did this begin? I asked for a binned IMC back in April (and I was willing to pay an extra $100) and he said "that would be a NO" you simple low-life 11600K i5 scoundrel!


🤦‍♂️

How many times do I have to say it. Ignore SP.

Asus guys… this is your crew.


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> 🤦‍♂️
> 
> How many times do I have to say it. Ignore SP.
> 
> Asus guys… this is your crew.


Sorry, I thought SP was the latest thing! Will happily ignore it.

Results, even cheap results like mine - speak for themselves.

Still wish SL would bin IMC's at an additional cost. oh well.

View attachment 2524287


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Sorry, I thought SP was the newest thing! Will happily ignore it.
> 
> Results, even cheap results - speak for themselves.
> 
> Still wish SL would bin IMC's at an additional cost. oh well.


It’s more accurate for 10th gen.


----------



## bscool

The things about binning IMC is without using the exact same memory sticks and MB your are just ball parking it. East to blame CPU imc when it could be the memory or MB.


----------



## WebsterRKL

bscool said:


> The things about binning IMC is without using the exact same memory sticks and MB your are just ball parking it. East to blame CPU imc when it could be the memory or MB.


100% Correct, too many variables.

The SL guy has stated to me many times - core silicon efficiency binning has no direct relationship to IMC efficiency.

It's still a crap shoot I guess. But sometimes, you get lucky - if you pray to the hardware Gods.

I got lucky this gen with the i5, maybe NOT next gen. 

Next, Asus will create a separate SP rating for the Alder Lake IMC? 🤣


----------



## rhyno

WebsterRKL said:


> 100% Correct, too many variables.
> 
> The SL guy has stated to me many times - core silicon efficiency binning has no direct relationship to IMC efficiency.
> 
> It's still a crap shoot I guess. But sometimes, you get lucky - if you pray to the hardware Gods.
> 
> I got lucky this gen with the i5, maybe NOT next gen.
> 
> Next, Asus will create a separate SP rating for the Alder Lake IMC? 🤣


i read alder lake has 2 imcs


----------



## sugi0lover

Bakuya said:


> What batch and sp you have?
> 
> Thank you.


This one is SP89. I have had 4 11900ks and they are all different.
Based on SR 16GB Ram I had...

SP89 (current one) : 53(core)/48(cache) stable, 4000CL13 (gear1) / 5000CL16 & 5066CL17 stable
SP93 : 53/47 stable, cache 48 not bootable, 3866CL13 (Gear1) stable, 5000CL17 stable
SP89 (Old one) : 53/46 stable, 52/47 stable, 3733CL13 stable, 5000CL17 stable
SP85 : didn't test core/cache quality, 3866CL13 & 5000CL17 bootable but not stable



ViTosS said:


> Nice! Can you run Horizon Zero Dawn lowest settings 1080p 50% resolution scale?


I will do it when I have time. Weekend possibly.


----------



## WebsterRKL

rhyno said:


> i read alder lake has 2 imcs


Holy Mahgoshi! 

How can I possibly get lucky again?


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> This one is SP89. I have had 4 11900ks and they are all different.
> Based on SR 16GB Ram I had...
> 
> SP89 (current one) : 53(core)/48(cache) stable, 4000CL13 (gear1) / 5000CL16 & 5066CL17 stable
> SP93 : 53/47 stable, cache 48 not bootable, 3866CL13 (Gear1) stable, 5000CL17 stable
> SP89 (Old one) : 53/46 stable, 52/47 stable, 3733CL13 stable, 5000CL17 stable
> SP85 : didn't test core/cache quality, 3866CL13 & 5000CL17 bootable but not stable
> 
> 
> I will do it when I have time. Weekend possibly.


Do you guys sell the CPUs and mem kits you don't end up using?

Is this all for Gaming? OR HWbot? Is there a Grand Prize? I don't see HW offering any monies. 🤣

It's a beautiful hobby and generates so much happiness so shut up!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Do you guys sell the CPUs and mem kits you don't end up using?
> 
> Is this all for Gaming? OR HWbot? Is there a Grand Prize? I don't see HW offering any monies. 🤣
> 
> It's a beautiful hobby and generates so much happiness so shut up!


I sold one that does 3866 to a member of this forum for $150 less than I paid.

I think most people just hoard them. There is not a lot of generosity other than free advice.


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> Do you guys sell the CPUs and mem kits you don't end up using?
> 
> Is this all for Gaming? OR HWbot? Is there a Grand Prize? I don't see HW offering any monies. 🤣


Yes. Every CPU tested has been sold and wasted lots of money because they became used one after the test and lost around $100/cpu after 10 min use.
SP89 I am using right now is the best among 40 11900Ks, so to get this CPU, think how much money has been wasted.
I don't do any competitive stuff. I am just trying to find the best possible stable setup for gaming.


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> I sold one that does 3866 to a member of this forum for $150 less than I paid.
> 
> I think most people just hoard them. There is not a lot of generosity other than free advice.


I gave away $2200 in CaseLabs parts with free shipping to enthusiasts I never met in the US, Canada, and Europe, back in 2017, to amazing CaseLabs owners.

That was my humble giveback and giveaway to OCN.


----------



## D-EJ915

I just haven't sold my extras yet plus basically nobody wants these chips so selling price is bad. I've given a whole pc and 3070 to friends recently so my freebies have almost dried up for new hardware lol, maybe can give some out for old stuff haha. Not sure about others but I also have a hardware collection so my stuff goes there.


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> Yes. Every CPU tested has been sold and wasted lots of money because they became used one after the test and lost around $100/cpu after 10 min use.
> SP89 I am using right now is the best among 40 11900Ks, so to get this CPU, think how much money has been wasted.
> I don't do any competitive stuff. I am just trying to find the best possible stable setup for gaming.


So Awesome tech brother,

I'm only seeking an extremely fast home office work pc for long 8-10hour days yet very fast hours, and so enjoy the super amazing responsiveness high speed mem kits have to offer, my mind to the electronic paper instantaneous, and no computer in between. 

For all the home office working tech enthusiasts making a good living - with 5866Mhz CL21, guess what? We ain't in Kansas anymore. 😃


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> So Awesome tech brother,
> 
> I'm only seeking an extremely fast home office work pc for long 8-10hour days yet very fast hours, and so enjoy the super amazing responsiveness high speed mem kits have to offer, my mind to the electronic paper instantaneous, and no computer in between.
> 
> For all the home office working tech enthusiasts making a good living - with 5866Mhz CL21, guess what? We ain't in Kansas anymore. 😃
> 
> View attachment 2524324
> 
> View attachment 2524325


Thanks for sharing! For me to feel the fast responsiveness, I get that from low latency not high clock. Latency of 35.x ns gives me amazing responsiveness.
My friend is using 11900K with djr 5866 cl21-30-50 2T with its latency of 45ns. He also had an experience with my PC and he felt my PC way more responsive.
Maybe the works you mentioned prefer high clock to latency.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> So Awesome tech brother,
> 
> I'm only seeking an extremely fast home office work pc for long 8-10hour days yet very fast hours, and so enjoy the super amazing responsiveness high speed mem kits have to offer, my mind to the electronic paper instantaneous, and no computer in between.
> 
> For all the home office working tech enthusiasts making a good living - with 5866Mhz CL21, guess what? We ain't in Kansas anymore. 😃
> 
> View attachment 2524324
> 
> View attachment 2524325


I actually am in Kansas. We have a Microcenter now.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing! For me to feel the fast responsiveness, I get that from low latency not high clock. Latency of 35.x ns gives me amazing responsiveness.
> My friend is using 11900K with djr 5866 cl21-30-50 2T with its latency of 45ns. He also had an experience with my PC and he felt my PC way more responsive.
> Maybe the works you mentioned prefer high clock to latency.


tested older bios
3866 1t always errors out

but new bios.. hmm lost stability abit on 5k. not sure the problem atm.

3866 1t stable
lost stability on 3960.. still figuring this out.


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing! For me to feel the fast responsiveness, I get that from low latency not high clock. Latency of 35.x ns gives me amazing responsiveness.
> My friend is using 11900K with djr 5866 cl21-30-50 2T with its latency of 45ns. He also had an experience with my PC and he felt my PC way more responsive.
> Maybe the works you mentioned prefer high clock to latency.


That must be it exactly - the works I'm running prefer MHz to latency. Even boot times are mind-blowing fast moving from the Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit running 5066Mhz CL16 to the Hynix 5333 kit.

I only thought the Hynix 5333kit had a 10% chance keeping it within the 30day return window over the brilliant Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit and I ordered it anyways. Boot times are so extremely low.

My work apps LOVE the 5333 kit 😀

I like pushing the button at 5866Mhz CL21 and the Win10 stable screen appears in 5seconds. I realize that might be silly, but my mouth drops open every time in pure amazement. 😀


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> That must be it exactly - the works I'm running prefer MHz to latency. Even boot times are mind-blowing fast moving from the Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit running 5066Mhz CL16 to the Hynix 5333 kit.
> 
> I only thought the Hynix 5333kit had a 10% chance keeping it within the 30day return window over the brilliant Gskill 4800/17 b-die kit and I ordered it anyways. Boot times are so extremely low.
> 
> My work apps LOVE the 5333 kit 😀
> 
> I like pushing the button and the Win10 stable screen appears in 5seconds. I realize that might be silly, but my mouth drops open every time in pure amazement. 😀


Then this kit may be the best for you.
5,333MHz, CL20-30-30, 1.60V








HyperX Launches Lightning Fast DDR4-5333 Memory For AMD Ryzen And Intel Core Gaming Rigs


While we wait for DDR5, HyperX is cranking out increasingly fast DDR5 kits at up to 5,333MHz.




hothardware.com





and can you share your stability result and AIDA64 bench result, so it will be useful to this community.

FYI, my 5066CL17 performance is like this.


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> Then this kit may be the best for you.
> 5,333MHz, CL20-30-30, 1.60V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HyperX Launches Lightning Fast DDR4-5333 Memory For AMD Ryzen And Intel Core Gaming Rigs
> 
> 
> While we wait for DDR5, HyperX is cranking out increasingly fast DDR5 kits at up to 5,333MHz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hothardware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and can you share your stability result and AIDA64 bench result, so it will be useful to this community.
> 
> FYI, my 5066CL17 performance is like this.
> View attachment 2524340


You are brilliant - tech brother! Absolutely brilliant!


----------



## sugi0lover

The funny thing going on in Korea is that 11th Gen is so unpopular that new Z590 Apex can easily be purchased at under US$150 (tax included).
1US$ = 1170 won


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> The funny thing going on in Korea is that 11th Gen is so unpopular that new Z590 Apex can easily be purchased at under US$150 (tax included).
> 1US$ = 1170 won
> View attachment 2524342


It's so strange that so few could figure out Rocket Lake. I guess it's only truly amazing with the high-bin mem kits?

The 11600K 11400 so brilliant at gaming. I don't know how all this stuff works?


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> It's so strange that so few could figure out Rocket Lake. I guess it's only truly amazing with the high-bin mem kits?
> 
> The 11600K 11400 so brilliant at gaming. I don't know how all this stuff works?


This is not my thought about 11th Gen, but the general ideas about 11th, esepcially 11900K, are
1) It's expensive considering the performance
2) It consumes more energy = harder to control the heat
3) Ram OC is complex and Gear 2 high clock is not that useful, so 10th Gen is better, especially 10900K has more cores.
4) Ryzen performs better with not much hassle of overclocking, so gaming = Ryzen 
5) In the end, waste of sand....

For me, I prefer 11th gen the most because it performs better in gaming than other platform if it's oced well.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> This is not my thought about 11th Gen, but the general ideas about 11th, esepcially 11900K, are
> 1) It's expensive considering the performance
> 2) It consumes more energy = harder to control the heat
> 3) Ram OC is complex and Gear 2 high clock is not that useful, so 10th Gen is better, especially 10900K has more cores.
> 4) Ryzen performs better with not much hassle of overclocking, so gaming = Ryzen
> 5) In the end, waste of sand....
> 
> For me, I prefer 11th gen the most because it performs better in gaming than other platform if it's oced well.


i get similar if not more than my [email protected]/50 octvb 4533c16 dr @1440p
nfs heat rkl win, vermintide 2, rkl win

but its just the stability of rkl i love the most.
u can get away with semi stable ram in gaming.

temps for me its the same as cml 5.1 vs 5.1
the problem is 5.2 and above is difficult if temps not under control

although abit unfair since new loop/rig dual loop gpu doesnt effect cpu loop.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I am seeing VERY good temperatures on RKL, under 80C at 5.4/1.5v. 70C at 5.3/1.4v. My SP104 10700K ran hotter at lower voltages until it degraded and ran hot all the time.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> I am seeing VERY good temperatures on RKL, under 80C at 5.4/1.5v. 70C at 5.3/1.4v. My SP104 10700K ran hotter at lower voltages until it degraded and ran hot all the time.


power rkl lower. dunno what all da reviewers drinking
prime95
8700k @5.1 i had 240w (socket vmin 1.25)
10700k @5.1 i had 240w ( die vmin 1.24)
[email protected] i had 240w ( die vmin 1.17)

[email protected] is 200w (die vmin 1.234)

so..


----------



## Groove2013

I see you guys are running tWR 8, despite the formula saying tRTP (6)x2.
So first I was sad I couldn't do tWR 8, only 10.

But then I decided to check performance difference in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx and tWR 12 instead of 8, results consistently in more MPixel/s.

Bandwidth and responsiveness were not showing any difference, that's why I used Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx to see if tightening too much different timings, even if RAM test stable, wasn't actually hurting the performance, despite nice low numbers.


----------



## WebsterRKL

For me, RKL was an extra large and immense upgrade from Z390 and an 8086K older coffee lake's IMC.

And right after vaccination and the world became available and open once again. Thank God, I needed Rocket Lake for so much healing after 14months of absolute pain. I lost 82lbs and lost the ability to pee from the extreme stress. In a urine thigh bag for 7months - thank you Rocket Lake, you brought me back. 

Hardware is healing!


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> I see you guys are running tWR 8, despite the formula saying tRTP (6)x2.
> So first I was sad I couldn't do tWR 8, only 10.
> 
> But then I decided to check performance difference in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx and tWR 12 instead of 8, results consistently in more MPixel/s.
> 
> Bandwidth and responsiveness were not showing any difference, that's why I used Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx to see if tightening too much different timings, even if RAM test stable, wasn't actually hurting the performance, despite nice low numbers.


That TWR = TRTP * 2 is some rubbish formula. Pretty sure some people got that idea from jedec.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> That TWR = TRTP * 2 is some rubbish formula. Pretty sure some people got that idea from jedec.


Still, tWR 10 (instead of 12) gives me less MPixel/s in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx.
It's a fact that you can also check yourself, so...


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Still, 10 (instead of 12) gives me less MPixel/s in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx.
> It's a fact that you can also check yourself, so...


Then you are probably unstable or bench inconsistency, that formula is a meme. Pretty sure it came from veii or usmus memes.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> Then you are probably unstable or bench inconsistency, that formula is a meme. Pretty sure it came from veii or usmus memes.


Check yourself, instead of just talking.
I have exactly same conditions when comparing.
Fixed CPU frequency and all the other timings and same stuff running in the background.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> power rkl lower. dunno what all da reviewers drinking
> prime95
> 8700k @5.1 i had 240w (socket vmin 1.25)
> 10700k @5.1 i had 240w ( die vmin 1.24)
> [email protected] i had 240w ( die vmin 1.17)
> 
> [email protected] is 200w (die vmin 1.234)
> 
> so..


200w??

I’m seeing ~275w at 5.3 and ~310w at 5.4 under P95. Your chip is smokin hot for 200 watt.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Check yourself, instead of just talking.
> I have exactly same conditions when comparing.
> Fixed CPU frequency and all the other timings and same stuff running in the background.


You have some issues dude, aggressive for no reason guess it shows when you attacked that guy for posting rig pics. People get that formula from jedec spec, there is no real correlation between twr and trtp (intel uses twrpre).


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> You have some issues dude, aggressive for no reason guess it shows when you attacked that guy for posting rig pics. People get that formula from jedec spec, there is no real correlation between twr and trtp (intel uses twrpre).


So I'm aggressive, because I state/share a fact that you can check/confirm yourself?
But instead of doing so, you're still just talking and bringing up a subject that has nothing to do with what I wrote about.
L - logic.


----------



## YaqY

0451 said:


> 200w??
> 
> I’m seeing ~275w at 5.3 and ~310w at 5.4 under P95. Your chip is smokin hot for 200 watt.


What board dude? Might be looking at package power based on VID. Asus maximus has accurate power monitoring.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> So I'm aggressive, because I state/share a fact that you can check/confirm yourself?
> But instead of doing so, you're still just talking and bringing up a subject that has nothing to do with what I wrote about.


I don't like misinformation, and i have tested this rule, it is no better for stability or performance. PS try testing twr with hci/karhu, tm5 isn't good for this.


----------



## Groove2013

Now checked tRAS 15 vs. 28 with Aida64 CPU Photoworxx and tRAS 15 also brings more MPixel/s than tRAS 28.

15 is perfectly stable for my 3962 MHz 14-15.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> I don't like misinformation, and i have tested this rule, it is no better for stability or performance. PS try testing twr with hci/karhu, tm5 isn't good for this.


And you're still talking and talking, instead of checking it by yourself.
I never mentioned TM5 anywhere and there was 0 talk about stability issues on my end.
I'm using Karhu.
tWR 10 is perfectly stable for me, but 12 gives more MPixel/s in Aida64 CPY PhotoWorxx.
And if you would already have checked this by yourself, instead of writing nonsense, you would have see this confirmed on your end as well.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Now checked tRAS 15 vs. 28 with Aida64 CPU Photoworxx and tRAS 15 also brings more MPixel/s than tRAS 28.
> 
> 15 is perfectly stable for my 3962 MHz 14-15.


Guess you should check intel spec for that one, now I know anything you say should not be taken seriously.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

YaqY said:


> What board dude? Might be looking at package power based on VID. Asus maximus has accurate power monitoring.


AsRock OCF. I won't use Asus products.


----------



## Groove2013

And how dare you accuse me of misinformation, without having checked yourself using exactly like I mentioned Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx?

So pathetic...


----------



## YaqY

0451 said:


> AsRock OCF. I won't use Asus products.


Not sure if they expose VRM on that board, if so usually see a VRVOUT reading unless on asus maximus. If the power reading is from CPU Package Power then it goes off VID.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> Guess you should check intel spec for that one, now I know anything you say should not be taken seriously.
> View attachment 2524351


You're such a clown. Still haven't checked it using Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx...


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> You're such a clown. Still haven't checked it using Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx...


Showed u intel spec on your TRAS statement dude, guess ill believe your experience over intel spec. Also, haven't seen the screenshots from you... Aida is known for inconsistency fyi, try IMLC.


----------



## Groove2013

I'm 100% sure he will continue to write stuff and copy/paste links, but still won't check himself (easy to do) using Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> I'm 100% sure he will continue to write stuff and copy/paste links, but still won't check himself (easy to do) using Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx.


Showed u spec dude, common now, don't have to resort to insults, seems that is all you have to say about me.


----------



## cstkl1

YaqY said:


> You have some issues dude, aggressive for no reason guess it shows when you attacked that guy for posting rig pics. People get that formula from jedec spec, there is no real correlation between twr and trtp (intel uses twrpre).


i can bet is the one that talks garbage with zero screenshots. i shouldnt have shared that 3866 profile in public. 
i am sorry to mankind. 

just ignore the dude. he wont amount to anything.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

YaqY said:


> Not sure if they expose VRM on that board, if so usually see a VRVOUT reading unless on asus maximus. If the power reading is from CPU Package Power then it goes off VID.


Like exposed in HWInfo or literally exposed?


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> Guess you should check intel spec for that one, now I know anything you say should not be taken seriously.
> View attachment 2524351


tRAS lower than 28 is not a problem, with Rocket Lake and even @sugi0lover has tried tRAS 14 and it worked and to confirm that, tRC was showing 30 for tRAS 15 and it was stable for 5 hours in Karhu.

You're such a clown man.
Wanted to humiliate me, but instead got humiliated by yourself...


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> tRAS lower than 28 is not a problem, with Rocket Lake and even @sugi0lover has tried tRAS 14 and it worked and to confirm that, tRC was showing 30 for tRAS 15 and it was stable for 5 hours in Karhu.
> 
> You're such a clown man.
> Wanted to humiliate me, but instead got humiliated by yourself...
> View attachment 2524354


Its not a matter of working or not, its that 28 is lowest intel spec, lower does nothing.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Like exposed in HWInfo or literally exposed?
> 
> View attachment 2524353


he meant hwinfo exposed,,

btw dude y da naked vrm? winter coming?


----------



## Groove2013

Continue to write stuff and post links, instead of checking tRAS lower than 28 by yourself.
Just enter the BIOS, set tRAS to anything lower than 28 and see performance increase in anything other than Aida or Geekbench, because they can't see the difference and check tRC in HWiNFO or elsewhere.
And lets finish this stupid nonsense.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Continue to write stuff and post links, instead of checking tRAS lower than 28 by yourself.
> Just enter the BIOS, set tRAS to anything lower than 28 and see performance increase in anything other than Aida or Geekbench, because they can't see the difference and check tRC in HWiNFO or elsewhere.
> And lets finish this stupid nonsense.


I'll just end it here, your lack of understanding is evident. Intel doesn't use TRC fyi, guess theres a reason you won't see Asus boards exposing it in bios...


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> I actually am in Kansas. We have a Microcenter now.


Kansas only has 2dozen hillbillies with nice boobs - end of story, move on.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> I'll just end it here, your lack of understanding is evident. Intel doesn't use TRC fyi, guess theres a reason you won't see Asus boards exposing it in bios...


You continue to show your ignorance.
Probably too afraid to check yourself what I'm saying.
Otherwise you will have to admit your facepalm.

Asus boards don't show tRC, because you can't change it. It's always 2x tRAS value.

Same like Asus XIII don't show tRP in the BIOS, but again, just because it's same as tRCD.

You lost all the credibility you had left.

Download latest HWiNFO and it will show you tRC, despite not being shown in the BIOS, like Aida or ASRock Timing Configurator showing tEP, despite it not being accessible in the BIOS.

Seems like you don't even know basic stuff...


----------



## cstkl1

@0451 
24xw for 5.2


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> he meant hwinfo exposed,,
> 
> btw dude y da naked vrm? winter coming?


VRM heatsinks get in the way of switching out waterblocks.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> You continue to show your ignorance.
> Probably too afraid to check what I'm yourself.
> Otherwise you will have to admit your facepalm.
> 
> Asus boards don't show tRC, because you can't change it. It's always 2x tRAS value.
> 
> Same like Asus XIII don't show tRP in the BIOS, but again, just because it's same as tRCD.
> 
> You lost all the credibility you had left.


I've shown screenshots, still waiting for yours on testing results, memory stability tests etc. Intel spec states min tras is 28, below does nothing, placebo. Twr formula comes from jedec spec, has nothing to do with overclocking memory. TRC doesn't even exist on intel, just for whatever reason hwinfo likes to have TRC.


----------



## YaqY

0451 said:


> VRM heatsinks get in the way of switching out waterblocks.


Yea package power dude, looks like Asrock doesn't expose vrm. Those power readings are coming from VID.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> I've shown screenshots, still waiting for yours on testing results, memory stability tests etc. Intel spec states min tras is 28, below does nothing, placebo. Twr formula comes from jedec spec, has nothing to do with overclocking memory. TRC doesn't even exist on intel, just for whatever reason hwinfo likes to have TRC.


Still haven't checked yourself. Ok...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

YaqY said:


> Yea package power dude, looks like Asrock doesn't expose vrm. Those power readings are coming from VID.


So my CPU is possibly using less power than I think? I thought my temps were low.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Still haven't checked yourself. Ok...


All you can resort to dude, we ask for proof and get nothing, guess trying to inform you is a waste of time. Won't make that mistake again.


----------



## YaqY

0451 said:


> So my CPU is possibly using less power than I think? I thought my temps were low.


Yea that is highly likely.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> So my CPU is possibly using less power than I think? I thought my temps were low.


nope. about correct. power package is temp dependent. 

hmm never tried lowering my 5.2 .. give me a sec.


----------



## cstkl1

nope. 249w 81c prime95


----------



## bscool

WebsterRKL said:


> Do you guys sell the CPUs and mem kits you don't end up using?
> 
> Is this all for Gaming? OR HWbot? Is there a Grand Prize? I don't see HW offering any monies. 🤣
> 
> It's a beautiful hobby and generates so much happiness so shut up!


You can get some really top binned stuff over here For Sale

Bad thing is a lot of it is from outside the US so it can really add to the price if converting currency and adding international shipping. There are some crazy mem kits that get sold for decent prices though websmile (FS) G.Skill top bins

If you look from time to time he sells kits as he must buy a lot of them.


----------



## WebsterRKL

So I moved the truth about the 5333 Gskill kit over to the EVGA forum guys with complete and absolute honesty and they all dropped their heads into a hole in the ground like ostriches.

They all being like "brand-happy", there is no way their beloved Z590 Dark cannot do 5333 because EVGA Jacob told them that it could?

Pure Whack! 🤣

Guess What? Your Z590 Dark board cannot do it! 😂 Not Even XMP! 🤣

Don't you even think about 5866Mhz CL21 EVGA boys! 🤣


----------



## WebsterRKL

EVGA Z590 Dark boys 🤣


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> So I moved the truth about the 5333 Gskill kit over to the EVGA forum guys with complete and absolute honesty and they all dropped their heads into a hole in the ground like ostriches.
> 
> They all being like "brand-happy", there is no way their beloved Z590 Dark cannot do 5333 because Jacob told them that it could?
> 
> Pure Whack! 🤣
> 
> Guess What? Your Z590 Dark board cannot do it! 😂 Not Even XMP! 🤣
> 
> Don't you even think about 5866Mhz CL21 EVGA boys! 🤣


And I thought I was fun at parties.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> EVGA Z590 Dark boys 🤣
> 
> View attachment 2524361


dont know yet. we know it can do bdie dr 4800
but tight and worthy timings .. nobody posted any yet..

cpu oc also no idea.


----------



## murenitu

Madremia, nadie me ha dicho nada ni dedico 1min a contestarme jajaja
bueno tendré que aventurarme solo

Madremia, nobody has told me anything or dedicated 1min to answering me hahaha

well I will have to venture alone


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> i can bet is the one that talks garbage with zero screenshots.





YaqY said:


> still waiting for yours screenshots on testing results, memory stability tests etc.


Need to lower voltages now.

tRAS is 15 (instead of 28) for better performance.
tWR is 12 (instead of 8) for better performance.
tRDWR_sg is 9 (instead of 10) for better perforamnce
tRDWR_dr & _dd are 12 (instead of lower than that) for better performance

With tRDWR_sg 10 and tRDWR_dr & _dd 10, performance is lower - less MPixel/s in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx.
Same goes for tWR 8.

tWRPRE is 30 (not shown by Timing Configurator)
tRDPRE is 6 (not shown by Timing Configurator)
*tXP* is *4* (not shown by Timing Configurator) - *helps with latency*


----------



## Groove2013

Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx isn't particularly consistent from run to run and MPixel/s vary a bit, but several incosistent Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx runs will still show consistently higher MPixel/s with the right timings values (not necessarily tighter!) than other inconsistent runs with tRAS 28 (vs.15), tWR 8 (vs.12), tRDWR_sg 10 (vs. 9) and t_RDWR_dr & _dd 10 (vs. 12).

Anybody can check it himself, if you don't believe me.
No need for links.
Just open your eyes and run this benchmark.


----------



## Arni90

@YaqY tRAS below 28 does do something on Rocket Lake



















The *only* change I did here was to change tRAS from 18 to 28, and then ran PYPrime 5 times to check for consistency. The results varied by 1 ms, the best results were 6.899 s and 6.932 s respectively

Affinity was set to thread #2, single core boost was at 5.3 GHz


----------



## Groove2013

Arni90 said:


> @YaqY tRAS below 28 does do something on Rocket Lake
> 
> View attachment 2524382
> 
> 
> View attachment 2524383
> 
> 
> The *only* change I did here was to change tRAS from 18 to 28, and then ran PYPrime 5 times to check for consistency. The results varied by 1 ms, the best results were 6.899 s and 6.932 s respectively
> 
> Affinity was set to thread #2, single core boost was at 5.3 GHz


Don't prove him wrong.
He will send you an Intel link that says that tRAS lower than 28 is impossible or does nothing, without even having checked this personally, on Rocket Lake, which is not the same as Comet Lake, where tRAS lower than 28 wasn't working indeed.
Such a facepalm.

He also hasn't checked the rest, but affirms I'm wrong, when I propose to h8m to run benchmark himself, to see that there is indeed a difference.


----------



## Arni90

WebsterRKL said:


> So I moved the truth about the 5333 Gskill kit over to the EVGA forum guys with complete and absolute honesty and they all dropped their heads into a hole in the ground like ostriches.
> 
> They all being like "brand-happy", there is no way their beloved Z590 Dark cannot do 5333 because EVGA Jacob told them that it could?
> 
> Pure Whack! 🤣
> 
> Guess What? Your Z590 Dark board cannot do it! 😂 Not Even XMP! 🤣
> 
> Don't you even think about 5866Mhz CL21 EVGA boys! 🤣


Maybe the Z590 Dark is optimized purely for B-die, and all other ICs run like crap?
Very happy with my Apex XIII these days, I even managed to make Micron rev. E clock on it.


----------



## Groove2013

Arni90 said:


> @YaqY tRAS below 28 does do something on Rocket Lake
> 
> View attachment 2524382
> 
> 
> View attachment 2524383
> 
> 
> The *only* change I did here was to change tRAS from 18 to 28, and then ran PYPrime 5 times to check for consistency. The results varied by 1 ms, the best results were 6.899 s and 6.932 s respectively
> 
> Affinity was set to thread #2, single core boost was at 5.3 GHz


You should be able to do tRAS 14 or if not, then 15 for sure.

For me, tRAS 15 is 10000% Karhu stable.
14 bootable, but unstable.
Probably due to me having 14-15-15 and not 13-14-14 or 14-14-14.
Otherwise tRAS 14 could probably have worked for me.


----------



## Groove2013

3 incosistent Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx runs per tRAS setting, that despite bieng inconsistent from run to run, are still consistently showing higher MPixel/s for tRAS 15 vs. tRAS 28.
All the other timings are same (as you can see in Timing Configurator) and same (number) of background tasks.
Tests are started not before few minutes after Windows start, to allow all the stuff to start/load.
tRAS 15 3x




















tRAS 28 3x




















Yeah, you can link me Intel spec again, if you wish so. Won't change the fact of it being like it is, for real, on Rocket lake and *not on paper* and *not for Comet Lake*.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 I just ran photoworxx and even without changing timings it varies quite a bit from boot to boot. Also what is your cpu cache? With 3866 and looser timings I am over 40,000 [email protected] 51/45.

Note I have SR in right now, not sure if that affects the score. I would think it would reduce it if anything.

Reran with 50/43 and score is about the same.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 I just ran photoworxx and even without changing timings it varies quite a bit from boot to boot. Also what is your cpu cache? With lower timings I am over 40,000 with 3866 and looser timings [email protected] 51/45.


Sure, it varies, from run to run or from boot to boot.

But you can run it as many times in a row and as many reboots as you want and despite all the inconsistency, MPixel/s for tRAS 15, even if not exactly same numbers each run/boot are *always* higher than for tRAS 28 and anybody here can check it for himself, like you did.

I can't do more than 36.000, because timings aren't as tight, even considering 3962 MHz.
5.050 MHz CPU and 4.550 MHz cache.


----------



## Groove2013

*Edit:* tWR 8 is actually slightly better than tWR 12. Not the opposite, like I said before.
just mixed up 8 with 12 (((


----------



## YaqY

Arni90 said:


> @YaqY tRAS below 28 does do something on Rocket Lake
> 
> View attachment 2524382
> 
> 
> View attachment 2524383
> 
> 
> The *only* change I did here was to change tRAS from 18 to 28, and then ran PYPrime 5 times to check for consistency. The results varied by 1 ms, the best results were 6.899 s and 6.932 s respectively
> 
> Affinity was set to thread #2, single core boost was at 5.3 GHz


IDK, i'm going by intel spec, says 28 tras is min. I don't trust these aida benchmarks, vary boot to boot, can run better on a clean boot sometimes. There is no consistency.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 your timings are tighter than mine and mem clock are higher than mine. You should be above my 40,2000. I posted my timings.


----------



## Groove2013

He won't try/test tRAS lower than 28, to avoid admitting that there actual was no misinformation on my end and that tRAS lower than 28 does something that can easily be measured.


----------



## Bakuya

Somebody can give CMO please from Maximus Hero xiii and 11900k b-die please.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 your timings are tighter than mine and mem clock are higher than mine. You should be above my 40,2000. I posted my timings.


Don't know why, but it's lower than 40.000.

The only difference I see is that you have single rank and I have dual rank modules.


----------



## Groove2013

@bscool do you maybe know what could negatively affect this score?
I have 36.7 ns in Aida and pretty high bandwidth, considering my setting.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 wonder if it isn't some timing too tight. I lowered some of my subtimings timings to check and my score dropped to 31000. I just threw my DR back in and about the same score at 42000.

I saw your aida64 mem test and it looks really good.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 wonder if it isn't some timing too tight. I lowered some of my subtimings timings to check and my score dropped to 31000. I just threw my DR back in and about the same score at 42000.


Which subtimings have you lowered and from which to which value?
tRFC maybe?
As it seams to be the only timing that is pretty high and not similar to mine.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> Which subtimings have you lowered and from which to which value?
> tRFC maybe?
> As it seams to be the only timing that is pretty high and not similar to mine.


What happened is I just changed from SR to DR and it booted up with the SR timings. So some [email protected] from the above screen shot Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion. I ran the test just see what it would show and it was around 31000.

I just tried loading your timings and it wouldn't boot. I think it was the [email protected] I raised it to 10 and it booted.

Another things it could be your AVX settings. Photoworx uses AVX so maybe you are clocking down as I am on water and have 0 avx offset. Not sure just another guess? I really don't anything about Photoworx.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> What happened is I just changed from SR to DR and it booted up with the SR timings. So some [email protected] from the above screen shot Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion. I ran the test just see what it would show and it was around 31000.
> 
> I just tried loading your timings and it wouldn't boot. I think it was the [email protected] I raised it to 10 and it booted.
> 
> Another things it could be your AVX settings. Photoworx uses AVX so maybe you are clocking down as I am on water and have 0 avx offset. Not sure just another guess? I really don't anything about Photoworx.


I have offset 0 for AVX in the BIOS and AVX512 disabled.
Will try tRDWR_sg 10 then.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 I got your timings to work now(@3866 not your 3960) and score is still about the same. If you want you can send me a cmo file or I can send you mine to try so we can try figure it out.

It is the avx512 off. Drops score


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 I got your timings to work now and score is still about the same. If you want you can send me a cmo file or I can send you mine to try so we can try figure it out.
> 
> It is the avx512 off. Drops score


Must be something else additionally.
Enabling AVX512 increased the score a little, to 37xxxx, but still nowhere near 42xxx.
Can you share your BIOS profile, please?


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 3866worxx.zip This isn't tested for stability just threw your timings in and rough voltages. Some settings are from a @sugi0lover SR profile. I set CPU 50/43 for testing worxx.


----------



## Groove2013

@bscool with the profile you shared loaded, it results in 36.7 MPixel/s...


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> @bscool with the profile you shared loaded, it results in 36.7 MPixel/s...


Yeah I don't know. I am going thru trying figure out what is causing it but I get 42000 roughly. But there is some setting that will drop it down to 35-38000. It seems like it is happening in the background, like Asus sets it on training or boot.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> Yeah I don't know. I am going thru trying figure out what is causing it but I get 42000 roughly. But there is some setting that will drop it down to 35-38000. It seems like it is happening in the background, like Asus sets it on training or boot.


 But shouldn't it do 42k for me as well, since I have your profile loaded?


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 can you send me your cmo?


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> But shouldn't it do 42k for me as well, since I have your profile loaded?


Yeah I would think so, I wanna try your cmo and see what happens.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 I just ran photoworxx and even without changing timings it varies quite a bit from boot to boot. Also what is your cpu cache? With 3866 and looser timings I am over 40,000 [email protected] 51/45.
> 
> Note I have SR in right now, not sure if that affects the score. I would think it would reduce it if anything.
> 
> Reran with 50/43 and score is about the same.


42.9k 51 stovk cache 3866c14


----------



## cstkl1

51|45 5kc17 - 51k


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Yeah I don't know. I am going thru trying figure out what is causing it but I get 42000 roughly. But there is some setting that will drop it down to 35-38000. It seems like it is happening in the background, like Asus sets it on training or boot.


i dunno why u benching this. if @satinghostrider puts in dr 5200c19
it be 60k..


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> Yeah I would think so, I wanna try your cmo and see what happens.


download cmo groove


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> i dunno why u benching this. if @satinghostrider puts in dr 5200c19
> it be 60k..


I am just curious what cause it to go from 38000 to 42000. There seems to be some setting that will make it drop. I don't do everything to post a big # online I do it to learn and as a hobby.


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> I am just curious what cause it to go from 38000 to 42000. There seems to be some setting that will make it drop. I don't do everything to post a big # online I do it to learn and as a hobby.


if it flux then its either somr power saving or os


----------



## Groove2013

In OS it says 100% CPU min. So CPU always at max frequency.


----------



## sugi0lover

ViTosS said:


> Nice! Can you run Horizon Zero Dawn lowest settings 1080p 50% resolution scale?


Here it is.

[Lowest Option]









[Result]











yahfz said:


> Damn, that's really good. Any way you can bench tombraider at those settings?


Sorry for the late reply!
Tombraider seems like it prefers AMD a lot to Intel ^^


----------



## 2500k_2

@sugi0lover Greetings. May I ask you to pass the benchmark on the 505 version of sotr (demo)


----------



## 2500k_2

I want to show an example of a bad memory controller here. And then many complain that they have a bad xD.
It's only 11400. And he's a bad bin.
Notice the jump in IO2 from 1.25v to 1.57v.
I also have a question for you? what are the RTL calculation formulas for roketlake ?


----------



## Arni90

YaqY said:


> IDK, i'm going by intel spec, says 28 tras is min. I don't trust these aida benchmarks, vary boot to boot, can run better on a clean boot sometimes. There is no consistency.


Doesn't change the fact that lower tRAS performs ever so slightly better.
And I used PYPrime, not AIDA64


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> I want to show an example of a bad memory controller here. And then many complain that they have a bad xD.
> It's only 11400. And he's a bad bin.
> Notice the jump in IO2 from 1.25v to 1.57v.
> I also have a question for you? what are the RTL calculation formulas for roketlake ?


thats just bad tuning or ram.

tuning is by bios fae on sensing.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> thats just bad tuning or ram.
> 
> tuning is by bios fae on sensing.


What RTT do you use? Perhaps you are using new training algorithms? (noticed in comparison with cometlake new ones were added)


----------



## bscool

2500k_2 said:


> I want to show an example of a bad memory controller here. And then many complain that they have a bad xD.
> It's only 11400. And he's a bad bin.
> Notice the jump in IO2 from 1.25v to 1.57v.
> I also have a question for you? what are the RTL calculation formulas for roketlake ?


That looks similar to an sp85 11900k I have. It needs 1.45sa to boot 3733c14 and 1.5sa to be memtest stable in z590 apex. In z490 Apex it wont even boot 3733. But sell it next to an SP50 and some will want the sp85 

Asus doesn't let you set RTL on z590 I see on Hwbot some z590 boards let you set them manually, I think Asrock is one. No idea about MSI z590, even on CML they were a pain to set.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 I replied to you via PM so it doesn't clog the thread up.


----------



## Groove2013

Solved the problem.
It was a bad BIOS flash.
Installed the latest BIOS with new microcode, using usb bios flashback and I think I removed it or pressed something before it finished and despite newest BIOS, still had the previous microcode and possible a bad BIOS.

Now used EZ flash and it now does 43.373 MPixel/s.
Microcode is now also correct.

But SP went from 59 down to 50...


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> What RTT do you use? Perhaps you are using new training algorithms? (noticed in comparison with cometlake new ones were added)


u mean odt?

dude all this odt tuning is nothing compared to when the fae like @shamino1978 does sensing tuning

so let me tell u a story so back in jan/feb i was binning djr sr and had been lucky to get da mother of all djr dr. so just like now had to do algo etc etc.. odd stuff. passed to sham.
next bios all good sa/io lowered kit flew to 5066 stable and 5200 benching.

thats what i meant. when the faes work their magic.. all good. like now bios 1102 SR easy to do 3866 1T stable.
sugi posted lower sa/io on 1102

so your problem is toppc etc or ram 

alot of tuning by them is based from experience or testing an idea. its need alot of skill and a certain kind of mindset that thinks outofthebox.


----------



## Groove2013

@bscool thanks a lot for trying to help me man!


----------



## Groove2013

Sub 37 ns on air for 3962 MHz 14-15 gear 1 and 43.388 MPixel/s in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx, I think it's fine, considering it's on air and only a 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP kit.


----------



## Groove2013

Still tempted by 4000 CL14.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> View attachment 2524421
> olved the problem.
> It was a bad BIOS flash.
> Installed the latest BIOS with new microcode, using usb bios flashback and I think I removed it or pressed something before it finished and despite newest BIOS, still had the previous microcode and possible a bad BIOS.
> 
> Now used EZ flash and it now does 43.373 MPixel/s.
> Microcode is now also correct.
> 
> But SP went from 59 down to 50...


I know flashback has been broke for a while on z590 Apex. I wonder how many people are using it and having issues. I would think Asus would add this to there bios notes that the microcode isn't updated when using flashback on z590 Apex. I also had a z590 Hero and flashback worked on it to update microcode.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> Sub 37 ns on air for 3962 MHz 14-15 gear 1 and 43.388 MPixel/s in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx, I think it's fine, considering it's on air and only a 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP kit.


Nice work! Since you oc for gaming like I do, try to run Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of TombRaider like I posted.
Then you can see how good your overall CPU + RAM OC is.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> u mean odt?
> 
> dude all this odt tuning is nothing compared to when the fae like @shamino1978 does sensing tuning
> 
> so let me tell u a story so back in jan/feb i was binning djr sr and had been lucky to get da mother of all djr dr. so just like now had to do algo etc etc.. odd stuff. passed to sham.
> next bios all good sa/io lowered kit flew to 5066 stable and 5200 benching.
> 
> thats what i meant. when the faes work their magic.. all good. like now bios 1102 SR easy to do 3866 1T stable.
> sugi posted lower sa/io on 1102
> 
> so your problem is toppc etc or ram
> 
> alot of tuning by them is based from experience or testing an idea. its need alot of skill and a certain kind of mindset that thinks outofthebox.


Believe me, I appreciate the work of @shamino1978 as much as you do. Because it makes 1,000,000 clicks so you can only make 3.
But I just asked you about your rtt_odt.
If you do not want to share this information then say so.


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> Nice work! Since you oc for gaming like I do, try to run Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of TombRaider like I posted.
> Then you can see how good your overall CPU + RAM OC is.


Sorry, don't have these games.


----------



## satinghostrider

cstkl1 said:


> i dunno why u benching this. if @satinghostrider puts in dr 5200c19
> it be 60k..


Dr djr 4800c19 (Gear 2) I'm at 51k haven't tried 5200c19 as yet. 5.1/4.6 o/c.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> View attachment 2524421
> Solved the problem.
> It was a bad BIOS flash.
> Installed the latest BIOS with new microcode, using usb bios flashback and I think I removed it or pressed something before it finished and despite newest BIOS, still had the previous microcode and possible a bad BIOS.
> 
> Now used EZ flash and it now does 43.373 MPixel/s.
> Microcode is now also correct.
> 
> But SP went from 59 down to 50...


Wow that is a bare desktop. Are you running ghost spectre with everything disabled and no Steam, Nvidia software or game launchers. And I though my desktop was barebones with stock windows and a few game icons.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Wow that is a bare desktop. Are you running ghost spectre with everything disabled and no Steam, Nvidia software or game launchers. And I though my desktop was barebones with stock windows and a few game icons.


Everything on external SSD, until I find all the settings for a stable usage.
Then I will reinstall Windows that will see 0 crashes starting from there.
Now I don't care how often and how hard it will/can crash.


----------



## ViTosS

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is.
> 
> [Lowest Option]
> View attachment 2524407
> 
> 
> [Result]
> View attachment 2524408
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the late reply!
> Tombraider seems like it prefers AMD a lot to Intel ^^
> View attachment 2524409


Nice! That's insane, I can get 231fps in HZD (CPU 5.0/4.9 and 4200CL16 RAM) and 252fps in SOTTR


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Believe me, I appreciate the work of @shamino1978 as much as you do. Because it makes 1,000,000 clicks so you can only make 3.
> But I just asked you about your rtt_odt.
> If you do not want to share this information then say so.


??
its asus default odt on auto
theres no setting required on odt

are you asking me what the defauly values are? 
havent check what 1102 is but for sr bdie gear 1 should be 80/48/40


----------



## ViTosS

Well actually I was wrong about HZD (didn't run SOTTR again because inconsistency af), I probably have not run in the lowest settings the time I made 231fps, also didn't run again after changing cache from 47 to 49 like this time.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> ??
> its asus default odt on auto
> theres no setting required on odt
> 
> are you asking me what the defauly values are?
> havent check what 1102 is but for sr bdie gear 1 should be 80/48/40


thanks


----------



## D-EJ915

WebsterRKL said:


> So I moved the truth about the 5333 Gskill kit over to the EVGA forum guys with complete and absolute honesty and they all dropped their heads into a hole in the ground like ostriches.
> 
> They all being like "brand-happy", there is no way their beloved Z590 Dark cannot do 5333 because EVGA Jacob told them that it could?
> 
> Pure Whack! 🤣
> 
> Guess What? Your Z590 Dark board cannot do it! 😂 Not Even XMP! 🤣
> 
> Don't you even think about 5866Mhz CL21 EVGA boys! 🤣


evga memory compatibility is usually pretty bad. Their performance though is light years better than it used to be so there is that going for them, my X79 dark board is terrible.


----------



## murenitu

¿Qué programa utilizo para cambiar los valores de la memoria de Windows? Apesta tener que estar todo el tiempo desde el inicio de la BIOS hasta el inicio ...

No puedo arrancar más de 3600 engranajes 1 14-15-35 para 4 tarjetas de memoria, pero cuando quiero reproducir los tiempos no puedo encontrar otra forma de hacerlo que no sea desde la BIOS.


----------



## Jwick

WebsterRKL said:


> So I moved the truth about the 5333 Gskill kit over to the EVGA forum guys with complete and absolute honesty and they all dropped their heads into a hole in the ground like ostriches.
> 
> They all being like "brand-happy", there is no way their beloved Z590 Dark cannot do 5333 because EVGA Jacob told them that it could?
> 
> Pure Whack! 🤣
> 
> Guess What? Your Z590 Dark board cannot do it! 😂 Not Even XMP! 🤣
> 
> Don't you even think about 5866Mhz CL21 EVGA boys! 🤣


the dark is only good with SR/DR Bdie.


----------



## Groove2013

Well, EVGA is a very small brand, compared to Asus.
EVGA produces less products and lower quantity and thus more expensive and thus smaller users base, so less people to potentially find and report bugs and thus worse software/firmware support in the end.

So some EVGA products are more expensive, simply because of limited quantity produced.
Also you pay for Kingpin branding, but at Asus you don't pay for Shamino.

So Asus can sell their products cheaper, because they're produced in greater quantity and more people will buy them.
Not necessarily because Asus are of lower quality than EVGA.

Larger users base = more people that can discover bugs and potentionally report them where needed for them to be fixed.

So in the end you have a solid piece of hardware, for a competitive price and good and long lasting software/firmware support.


----------



## murenitu

I'm getting pretty grossed out by this mic. I've been trying to stabilize my memory for 2 days and it's horrible.

seems like he's only concerned with latency ...

i think i'm going to go back to the 10900k which was much more cpu dependent!


----------



## Groove2013

So I'm 100% not going to pay a lot for an overpriced product, just because of limited quantity and Kingpin name on it, but that performs not better if not worse in the end.

The best hardware is nothing without appropriate firmware/software.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> *Edit:* tWR 8 is actually slightly better than tWR 12. Not the opposite, like I said before.
> just mixed up 8 with 12 (((


Very strange find.

tWR 8 produces more MPixel/s in Aida64 CPU PhotoWorxx than tWR 12, which is normal.
But I can't do tWR 8, only 10 works for me, be it my kit, voltages or sticks temp.

But unlike with tWR 8, 10 produces less MPixel/s than tWR 12...

So now I moved from tWR 10 to 12.
No logic, but it is what it and that can be observed consistently, no matter how many reboots or runs in a row.

Theory: maybe it's because 10 is not multiple of 4, like 8 and 12. Who knows...


----------



## snoopycute98

Guys what's your Gear 1 VCCSA voltage at?
My HX436C17FB3K2/16 (KINGSTON HYPERX FURY 16GB (8GBX2) DDR4 3600MHz CL17) on XMP 3600 CL17 runs VCCSA voltage at 1.456V, VCCIO at 1.040V. Should I be worried?

Edit: Processor is 11700K and motherboard is Asrock Z590 Steel Legend.

Memory timings below:


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Well, EVGA is a very small brand, compared to Asus.
> EVGA produces less products and lower quantity and thus more expensive and thus smaller users base, so less people to potentially find and report bugs and thus worse software/firmware support in the end.
> 
> So some EVGA products are more expensive, simply because of limited quantity produced.
> Also you pay for Kingpin branding, but at Asus you don't pay for Shamino.
> 
> So Asus can sell their products cheaper, because they're produced in greater quantity and more people will buy them.
> Not necessarily because Asus are of lower quality than EVGA.
> 
> Larger users base = more people that can discover bugs and potentionally report them where needed for them to be fixed.
> 
> So in the end you have a solid piece of hardware, for a competitive price and good and long lasting software/firmware support.


the kingpins have the ability to control all voltages-msvdd,fbvdd,nvdd,switching freq,ocp/ovp. also xoc bios. strix dont got these. also asus z590 apex is the same price as the z590 DARK in US. and the apex uses a 6 layer pcb, and normal caps, instead of sp caps or tantalums, and no smt dimm slot. yes bios is a very imp thing, all hardware is waste if the bios/software is crap. but the 600$ price for the apex isnt justified. Z590 DARK is designed for BDIE in mind. also u cannot use optane m.2 for the apex, and if u use the dimm.2 u cannot put memory water block. apex also doesnt use full solid pins for the 24pin , not that it matter. no right angle connectors. Dark uses copper heat sinks which is expensive compared to alu on the apex, again not that it matters, but the cost of the DARK is justified. 10 layers pcb as well on the dark. and the dark and the tachyon are the only xoc boards u can connect an optane drive directly to the cpu.and the dark is very e-atx compared to the apex and dark is low in quantity compared to the apex and still is the same price. on a hardware lvl APEX is lower quality against other competitors.


----------



## murenitu

hello.

I am new to this platform and I don't have the faintest idea about it.

I re-post the settings in which I am now (Ram oc only) for now I did not even get to touch any core. as the ram has always been my kryptonite.

I'm stuck here, I can't get it to boot to 3700mhz..the motherboard screen stays in qcode 69 and the oled screen shows CPU Bios settings, no video...

If I boot to 3600mhz this is the maximum I get, someone can help me? please I do not know where to pull.









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----------



## bscool

@murenitu I am guessing you are at the limit of your IMC. I have a 11900k that even on z490 Apex wont go past 3600 in gear 1.

Have you looked at this for OCing. Asus Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed.

Also your CPU OC is reduced some using z490 MB vs z590 with 11th gen. At least in my experience with 3 different 11900ks in z490 Apex, Zz490 Unify, z590 Apex and z590 Hero. You wont compare to z590 MB if you are doing so. I would set a realistic goal of 3600 gear 1 and 51/45 to 50/44 for CPU OC.

If you just use it it will be fine, if you are going to compare your # to ones in this thread you will be disappointed. Outside of benchmarks it doesn't matter.

Edit I just looked at your aida64 screen shot and that looks good for 3600c14 on z490. Not going to get much better. Just because someone on here posted screen shots of 3866 with z490 and 4x8 doesn't mean everyone can hit that.


----------



## murenitu

bscool said:


> @murenitu I am guessing you are at the limit of your IMC. I have a 11900k that even on z490 Apex wont go past 3600 in gear 1.
> 
> Have you looked at this for OCing. Asus Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed.
> 
> Also your CPU OC is reduced some using z490 MB vs z590 with 11th gen. At least in my experience with 3 different 11900ks in z490 Apex, Zz490 Unify, z590 Apex and z590 Hero. You wont compare to z590 MB if you are doing so. I would set a realistic goal of 3600 gear 1 and 51/45 to 50/44 for CPU OC.
> 
> If you just use it it will be fine, if you are going to compare your # to ones in this thread you will be disappointed. Outside of benchmarks it doesn't matter.
> 
> Edit I just looked at your aida64 screen shot and that looks good for 3600c14 on z490. Not going to get much better.


if I have read it whole!

I've reviewed 190 pages of this post one by one and I still don't know where to go!


----------



## bscool

murenitu said:


> if I have read it whole!
> 
> I've reviewed 190 pages of this post one by one and I still don't know where to go!


Then there is no hope  I don't know what to say.

Honestly I think it is your IMC. Once I got a good IMC I could boot 3866+ without any special settings. The other 2 11900ks I had to rub chicken bones together and only on a full moon would it work @3733


----------



## Bakuya

So have 2 MH13 boards and two new CPU sp50 and wery strange things happen.

On one board one cpu cant past 3200 G1:1 and another CPU can do 3600.

On another Board same 3200max CPU did 3733, but how?

And also they have diffrent vid.


----------



## bscool

@murenitu Did you try bumpng mem io and mem sa up in bios? Try something like 1.45 mem io and 1.65 mem sa to see if 3733 will boot.

If does then bring it down testing stability. Loosing timings a little bit(3733c15 or 3733c16) so they are not limiting you.


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> So have 2 MH13 boards and two new CPU sp50 and wery strange things happen.
> 
> On one board one cpu cant past 3200 G1:1 and another CPU can do 3600.
> 
> On another Board same 3200max CPU did 3733, but how?
> 
> And also they have diffrent vid.


Is the microcode the same on the MBs?


----------



## bscool

In some ways RKL is harder or picker for mem OC than CML. I got some 2x16 4000c14 sticks yesterday and was disappointment.

They can run at a little less voltage in gear 1 than say the 4400c17 kit but they wont run 4533 in gear 2 on z590. They do work in gear [email protected] on z490/11900k but I need to manually set some algorithms that I don't need to set to get the 4400c17 2x16 kit to [email protected] I thought they would be awesome in gear 2 but they suck so far. In CML they are good though. [email protected] boots right up.

Overall for the much higher cost of the 4000c14 kit compared to all the kits I have from 3200c14 to 4400c17 I don't think the $$ is worth it. Binned to the nuts already or I got a weak kit.

Maybe I need more time to tweak them but initial impression was meh.


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> Is the microcode the same on the MBs?


Diffrent i guess, diffrent bioses, is there some way to flashback older microcode version?


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> Diffrent i guess, diffrent bioses, is there some way to flashback older microcode version?


That would explain the difference. I have used ez in the bios flash to flash to older bios I am pretty sure.

Flashback worked for me to update microcode on z590 hero but it doesn't work on z590 Apex. Have to use EZ flash to get the microcode update on z590 Apex.

And I would flash the latest bios and microcode. At least on z590 Apex it seems good to me. Maybe it is not good for z590 hero? I don't have the z590 hero anymore. But I would use the latest or try it.


----------



## murenitu

Ok now I test those values! to 3733 and I tell you

Can you give me some core to core "average cpu OC" values? and what value of less avx is recommended to put?


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> That would explain the difference. I have used ez in the bios flash to flash to older bios I am pretty sure.
> 
> Flashback worked for me to update microcode on z590 hero but it doesn't work on z590 Apex. Have to use EZ flash to get the microcode update on z590 Apex.
> 
> And I would flash the latest bios and microcode. At least on z590 Apex it seems good to me. Maybe it is not good for z590 hero? I don't have the z590 hero anymore. But I would use the latest or try it.


So cpu works well on first release bios version and old microcode, on new bios it do not wand ram oc, i intrested in downgrade miceocode, but how and where to find microcode version to know it's updated to previsious version, tanks a lot.


----------



## bscool

murenitu said:


> Ok now I test those values! to 3733 and I tell you
> 
> Can you give me some core to core "average cpu OC" values? and what value of less avx is recommended to put?


 I just use static values. 51 all core, cache 45 

Line Load from 4 to 6, You have to test it.

I use LLC 6 1.45volts for CPU. 

If that doesn't work try 50/44. Also depends on your cooling.


----------



## murenitu

I'm struggling right now with the boot but at 3733 he laughs at me I've been trying to get into bios for a while and nothing ... I'll try 3700 .....

okay! I take notes of your values although I prefer something core by core to go up more gradually! I am in LLC4


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> So cpu works well on first release bios version and old microcode, on new bios it do not wand ram oc, i intrested in downgrade miceocode, but how and where to find microcode version to know it's updated to previsious version, tanks a lot.


Microcode it is bios under Advanced tab and CPU. Can view it in Windows using HWinfo64 or Aida64.


----------



## murenitu

nothing impossible even at 3700mhz with those 2 voltages!

in 3733 it is in loop and it stays with the screen in qcode 6d
In 3700 on the motherboard oled screen I get CPU Setup bios menu and I have to forcibly turn it off.
at 3600 it starts with the voltages much lower as above.

son datos bastante malos lo se, pero si pongo solo XMP tengo 4000cl18-19-19-39 32gb con una latencia media en aida64 de unos 60ns mas o menos. 









escritorio


Image escritorio hosted in ImgBB




ibb.co






empezaria por la cpu pero estoy totalmente perdido.


----------



## bscool

murenitu said:


> I'm struggling right now with the boot but at 3733 he laughs at me I've been trying to get into bios for a while and nothing ... I'll try 3700 .....
> 
> okay! I take notes of your values although I prefer something core by core to go up more gradually! I am in LLC4


I don't know, never done it. Honestly there is not much to gain OCing 11th gen, just enable MCE and it will get you very close to the limit of your CPU. 

Maybe try this video for more info, if you don't understand the language just look at the pics in the video and it should help.


----------



## murenitu

I'm going to do it, thank you very much!

let's see what we can do.


----------



## Groove2013

I think that the new BIOS microcode degraded FPS for me.

With previous BIOS and exactly same settings, FPS was higher.

Will take the microcode from the previous BIOS and put it in the current BIOS and see if FPS is same as before.

Have also to completely remove the microcode from Windows as well.
Otherwise, if BIOS microcode is older than that in Windows, Windows microcode takes the lead.

Just have to remember how it all has to be done.
Done this several years ago for the last time.


----------



## Bakuya

Groove2013 said:


> I think that the new BIOS microcode degraded FPS for me.
> 
> With previous BIOS and exactly same settings, FPS was higher.
> 
> Will take the microcode from the previous BIOS and put it in the current BIOS and see if FPS is same as before.


Where do you find microcode version?
What prohram can show it? And how its called?


----------



## Groove2013

Bakuya said:


> Where do you find microcode version?
> What prohram can show it? And how its called?


Don't remember anymore.
Done this last time several years ago.
You can extract microcode from the file from one BIOS and put it in the other BIOS.


----------



## Bakuya

Groove2013 said:


> Don't remember anymore.
> Done this last time several years ago.
> You can extract microcode from the file from one BIOS and put it in the other BIOS.


If i revert back bios does microcode also change?


----------



## Groove2013

BIOS 1102 has a newer microcode but it doesn't say anything about any vulnerability it would patch.
If there is a vulnerability patch by this new microcode, then lower FPS is to be expected.


----------



## Groove2013

Bakuya said:


> If i revert back bios does microcode also change?


BIOS 1007 has another microcode than BIOS 1102. So yes.


----------



## Groove2013

My Win 10 in Device Manager -> System devices -> Intel(R) Management Engine Interface #1 in Properties -> Firmware, says that Intel ME version is 15.0.21.1549, from January 1 2020.

In Asus Support section there is Intel ME 15.0.23.1706 V5 from August 6 2021 that if you also update to it, to patch vulnerability, it will also lower FPS and performance in general while compiling, streaming, recording, rendering etc.

Will see where I can download Intel ME 15.0.21.1549 from January 2020 as a file, to revert to it, in case Windows decides to update Intel ME to newer patched against vulnerability version, reducing CPU performance in general.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Well, EVGA is a very small brand, compared to Asus.
> EVGA produces less products and lower quantity and thus more expensive and thus smaller users base, so less people to potentially find and report bugs and thus worse software/firmware support in the end.


Sorry, off-topic rant. But you are a victim of brand recognition. 
Go to the 3090 thread and ask the Strix owners which bios they are running.



Groove2013 said:


> So some EVGA products are more expensive, simply because of limited quantity produced.
> Also you pay for Kingpin branding, but at Asus you don't pay for Shamino.


Kingpin Hybrid MSRP: $2089
ROG Strix MSRP: $2299

ROG Tax: $210



Groove2013 said:


> So Asus can sell their products cheaper, because they're produced in greater quantity and more people will buy them.
> Not necessarily because Asus are of lower quality than EVGA.
> 
> Larger users base = more people that can discover bugs and potentionally report them where needed for them to be fixed.
> 
> So in the end you have a solid piece of hardware, for a competitive price and good and long lasting software/firmware support.


Too much to unpack here, so I made you a cheat sheet.


----------



## Groove2013

@0451 using Zotac AMP Extreme vBIOS on my Strix Advanced Binned OC GTX 1070 Ti, because of much higher power target )))


----------



## Groove2013

This was more specific to DJR RAM OC that is much worse on Dark vs. Apex.

Who knows, maybe it's a completely different story with B-DIEs and gear 1 on Dark vs. Apex...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @0451 using Zotac AMP Extreme vBIOS on my Strix Advanced Binned OC GTX 1070 Ti, because of much higher power target )))


No, go to the 3090 thread and ask the Strix owners which bios they are using. I'll give you a hint.


----------



## Groove2013

I like Dark's design (0 RGB/all black), bare copper heatsinks, 90° connectors, RAM slots placement and 10 layers vs. 6 much more than Apex, but it's still unavailable in EU until now.


----------



## murenitu

Is good?


----------



## Groove2013

murenitu said:


> Is good?
> View attachment 2524604


Yes


----------



## Zdenal

Bakuya said:


> If i revert back bios does microcode also change?


Yes. And you can see microcode in BIOS, under advanced tab.


----------



## bscool

@murenitu That is not microcode. IME is different from MC.


----------



## bscool

You guys messing with replacing microcode. If you have a single bios be warned you get it wrong your MB is bricked. If something goes wrong.

Here is where you find MC in Hwinfo or Aida64


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> You guys messing with replacing microcode. If you have a single bios be warned you get it wrong your MB is bricked. If something goes wrong.


Apex has 2 BIOSes, so no problem for me.
+ if the BIOS in question has problems, reflash another one via usb bios flashback.
Even if usb bios flashback is not replac8ng the microcode when flashing, it definitely replaces the BIOS.
After that, to have the correct microcode, you can reflash from withing the bios.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> Apex has 2 BIOSes, so no problem for me.
> + if the BIOS in question has problems, reflash another one via usb bios flashback.
> Even if usb bios flashback is not replac8ng the microcode when flashing, it definitely replaces the BIOS.
> After that, to have the correct microcode, you can reflash from withing the bios.


I know you do but there are guys that bricked the bios on Apex and they couldn't flash them again. So they are down to 1 bios. Ill find the link.

ROG Maximus XII Apex This is on z490 Apex when using 11900k.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> the kingpins have the ability to control all voltages-msvdd,fbvdd,nvdd,switching freq,ocp/ovp. also xoc bios. strix dont got these. also asus z590 apex is the same price as the z590 DARK in US. and the apex uses a 6 layer pcb, and normal caps, instead of sp caps or tantalums, and no smt dimm slot. yes bios is a very imp thing, all hardware is waste if the bios/software is crap. but the 600$ price for the apex isnt justified. Z590 DARK is designed for BDIE in mind. also u cannot use optane m.2 for the apex, and if u use the dimm.2 u cannot put memory water block. apex also doesnt use full solid pins for the 24pin , not that it matter. no right angle connectors. Dark uses copper heat sinks which is expensive compared to alu on the apex, again not that it matters, but the cost of the DARK is justified. 10 layers pcb as well on the dark. and the dark and the tachyon are the only xoc boards u can connect an optane drive directly to the cpu.and the dark is very e-atx compared to the apex and dark is low in quantity compared to the apex and still is the same price. on a hardware lvl APEX is lower quality against other competitors.


ram water block no problem with dimm m.2
infact dark more problematic if you want to use thick rads top of mobo. with ram block in most casing

over-engineered board. atm if there needs to be a comparison its the asrock ocf. @0451 showed its actual daily usage. look at the ocf thread and we would assume its same as dark. 

issue with dark is.. we need decent ppl to test it. so too much assumption on its capabilities

so judgment reserved. if the board was sold in asia we have more result. but hey evga is too small to market it that far with support.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Sorry, off-topic rant. But you are a victim of brand recognition.
> Go to the 3090 thread and ask the Strix owners which bios they are running.
> 
> 
> Kingpin Hybrid MSRP: $2089
> ROG Strix MSRP: $2299
> 
> ROG Tax: $210
> 
> 
> Too much to unpack here, so I made you a cheat sheet.
> 
> View attachment 2524602


u forgot few more
customer based who wont pay more
evga tick
chances if belly up by 2030
evga tick
practices diff rma policy overseas
evga tick
most of their products are oem rebrand and uses foxconn etc to make their gpu
evga tick
only good thing is kingpin and dark gpu while everything else more less garbage
evga tick

one two product doesnt make a brand great..


----------



## cstkl1

oh yeah least we forget evga did belly up before.
who does intel and amd depend on mobo innovation and bios improvement etc.. 
evga not on their callin card.


----------



## Groove2013

Yeah, EVGA support/RMA is problematic outside US. And guess what - US is not the whole planet.


----------



## Groove2013

EVGA factory waterblock and GPU 360 mm rad and pump-block unit have nothing to do with EVGA, other than having their logo on it.


----------



## Groove2013

And having 4 layers more for PCB and all the rest, doesn't help when the BIOS isn't tuned as good/much as it is on Apex for RAM chips of so many different manufacturers.

The best hardware in the world won't help if there is no fine tuned software to back it up.

That's EVGA's problem.

RMA/support outside US and not so fine tuned BIOS.


----------



## cstkl1

as for actual support instead of made up numbers

lets use x299 which is one of the longest ever used mobo lineup

asrock ocf








ASRock X299 OC Formula


Supports Intel Core™ X-Series Processor Family for the LGA 2066 Socket; 13 Phase CPU Power Design + 2 Phase Memory Power Design, Dr. MOS; Supports Quad Channel DDR4 4600+(OC) Memory; 5 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 3.0 x4, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1; NVIDIA 4-Way SLI™, AMD 4-Way CrossFireX™; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek...




www.asrock.com




11/2019

asus apex
07/2021

evga x299 dark
site to sketchy to navigate to even find the latest bios.
had to go to their forums


https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3196486&p=1


08/2021
( they just got rebar)

so thats for long term actual dependability.

thats y ppl choose asus. its not just "brand"
or what u think of a single product flavor of the month.

me. i go where shamino goes. when it comes to mobo. he went evga, i bought evga, he went foxconn i bought foxconn, he left asus, i didnt touch asus mobo

but i do like their other products.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> And having 4 layers more for PCB and all the rest, doesn't help when the BIOS isn't tuned as good/much as it is on Apex for RAM chips of so many different manufacturers.
> 
> The best hardware in the world won't help if there is no fine tuned software to back it up.
> 
> That's EVGA's problem.
> 
> RMA/support outside US and not so fine tuned BIOS.


Why does everyone trash EVGA? You don't have to buy their products, but you should be happy they exist. XOC brands like EVGA are good for the overclocking community.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Why does everyone trash EVGA? You don't have to buy their products, but you should be happy they exist. XOC brands like EVGA are good for the overclocking community.


Since when saying how things really are is trashing?
Nothing made up.

Paying so much money for a premium board and more than for Apex, for it then not even being able to run much cheaper than B-DIE RAM at XMP, while Apex has no such problems and costs less?

And how these 10 layers, copper heatsinks and all the switches are supposed to help then, if it can't even boot?

That's why customers are unhappy, but towards G.Skill and other RAM brands, rather than with EVGA, because in their heads it can't be the board, since it's EVGA and costs so much, while it really is the board, or rather its not fine tuned BIOS.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Why does everyone trash EVGA? You don't have to buy their products, but you should be happy they exist. XOC brands like EVGA are good for the overclocking community.


y are u so hyped up with the brand over two products you bought? 

evga xoc brand? lets look at hwbot
dont see it
ok lets go to hwbot forum..
looking hard atm for tools etc.. brb.. maybe got to dig deep like their bios ...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Since when saying how things really are is trashing?
> Nothing made up.
> 
> Paying so much money for a premium board and more than for Apex for it then not even being able to run RAM at XMP, while Apex has no such problems and costs less?
> 
> And how are these 10 layers, copper heatsinks and all the switch help then, if it can't even boot?


Who cares? Don’t buy it. Apex performs no better than an OC Formula, costs more, and has fewer features (oled, bclk oc buttons, backplate, dual lan) but you don’t see me complaining. I simply don’t buy Asus products.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> y are u so hyped up with the brand over two products you bought?
> 
> evga xoc brand? lets look at hwbot
> dont see it
> ok lets go to hwbot forum..
> looking hard atm for tools etc.. brb.. maybe got to dig deep like their bios ...


Yes, you should be overjoyed that XOC brands like Galax and EVGA still exist in this day and age, making products that need no modification to go under LN2. Asus doesn’t make anything like that. Taking digs at the size of their company is like me taking digs at Elmor Labs for not being as large as EVGA or Watercool and Optimus for not being as large as Cooler Master and EK.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Who cares? Don’t buy it. Apex performs no better than an OC Formula, costs more, and has fewer features (oled, bclk oc buttons, backplate, dual lan) but you don’t see me complaining. I simply don’t buy Asus products.


Exactly - I don't buy. Because it's still nowhere to find until now in EU.
In EU, ASRock OC Formula, while hsving everything you mentioned, also costs 562€, whereas Apex, while not having these features, costs "only" 439€.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Who cares? Don’t buy it. Apex performs no better than an OC Formula, costs more, and has fewer features (oled, bclk oc buttons, backplate, dual lan) but you don’t see me complaining. I simply don’t buy Asus products.


lol. 
when all is lost you defend with "who cares"

so why even start this discussion.
that board.. whatever "warantty" it has wont have the bios support for general users who actually uses mobos for that long. so good for u atm but who cares for the rest right? 

i dont think the brand cares about what u buy dude. they are kids here who spend more on their product.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Yes, you should be overjoyed that XOC brands like Galax and EVGA still exist in this day and age, making products that need no modification to go under LN2. Asus doesn’t make anything like that. Taking digs at the size of their company is like me taking digs at Elmor Labs for not being as large as EVGA or Watercool and Optimus for not being as large as Cooler Master and EK.


galax xoc?


again lets fact check reality shall we.
rams nothing great. consumer level bdie gskill were better.
high rma rate of their hof gpu in MY on 2080ti.
their normal lineup gpu are orm rebrand with huge ass coolers (34-35cm)

theres more products from asus, evga, msi even on so call non xoc boards being put on ln2 until today.

again 1-2 products you bought doesnt consist make a brand great. anyway pointless to continue as your opinions always change based on what u have. tommorow if sapphire made something u be hyping them up as the best ever made.

same goes with optimus etc great for the moment. reliable.. that remains to be seen.

you dont marry the first pretty girl u lay your eyes on.


----------



## Groove2013

For my Maximus Hero Z97 from 2014 I got BIOS updates even in 2018.

EVGA anybody?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> galax xoc?
> 
> 
> again lets fact check reality shall we.
> rams nothing great. consumer level bdie gskill were better.
> high rma rate if their hof gpu in MY on 2080ti.
> 
> theres more products from asus, evga, msi even on so call non xoc boards being put on ln2 until today.
> 
> again 1-2 products you bought doesnt consist make a brand great. anyway pointless to continue as your opinions always change based on what u have. tommorow if sapphire made something u be hyping them up as the best ever made.


I happen to make good purchasing decisions, I can’t help it 

You may buy Asus products exclusively, but I happen to shop around. I don’t always buy EVGA but I am grateful they still exist, since the Bud, Miller Coors (Asus, GB, MSI) will never release an XOC product or bios into the wild. And you are right, there are more non-EVGA than EVGA on LN2, but take a look at the top Port Royal results and see what bios they are on.


----------



## 1devomer

The consensus want you to buy, the mid/high range product that are sold the most.
The end of the spectrums products, will not receive the same level of attention, and XOC boards fall into this category.
It has nothing to do with a specific brand delivering better products than the others, but rather which brand sold the most of its products, in a determined segment.

Did you ever tried to speak with a guy from the finance team, asking for budget allocation on a project, for a product?
The first question he will ask is, how much of the product was sold!


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> I happen to make good purchasing decisions, I can’t help it
> 
> You may buy Asus products exclusively, but I happen to shop around. I don’t always buy EVGA but I am grateful they still exist, since the Bud, Miller Coors (Asus, GB, MSI) will never release an XOC product or bios into the wild. And you are right, there are more non-EVGA than EVGA on LN2, but take a look at the top Port Royal results and see what bios they are on.


i never buy asus product "exclusively". but when i want to oc board. i see where shamino at. thought that was clear. but atm i do like rog flavour. its like an apple eco system for me and few others.

anyway thinkni entered into the "fray" with some ongoing debate. i am out on this.


----------



## Jwick

okay wait EK IS GARBAGE. OPTIMUS IS MUCH BETTER. NO EXCUSES THERE


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> galax xoc?
> 
> 
> again lets fact check reality shall we.
> rams nothing great. consumer level bdie gskill were better.
> high rma rate of their hof gpu in MY on 2080ti.
> their normal lineup gpu are orm rebrand with huge ass coolers (34-35cm)
> 
> theres more products from asus, evga, msi even on so call non xoc boards being put on ln2 until today.
> 
> again 1-2 products you bought doesnt consist make a brand great. anyway pointless to continue as your opinions always change based on what u have. tommorow if sapphire made something u be hyping them up as the best ever made.
> 
> same goes with optimus etc great for the moment. reliable.. that remains to be seen.
> 
> you dont marry the first pretty girl u lay your eyes on.


they have 10 year warranty, which other water block company has that?


----------



## Groove2013

I really lik EVGA Dark, but still not available in EU, good luck with RMA/support outside US, with BIOS fine tuning by EVGA/Kingpin and with BIOS updates over time.
I don't care which brand.
But right now EVGA is not delivering.
If it would, I would of course have bought it.
Even directly from US.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> i never buy asus product "exclusively". but when i want to oc board. i see where shamino at. thought that was clear. but atm i do like rog flavour. its like an apple eco system for me and few others.
> 
> anyway thinkni entered into the "fray" with some ongoing debate. i am out on this.


one thing i hate abt asus is that why do i need to dig to find the best bios for my stuff? why cant the latest bios be the best. thoughts? evga is much straight forward in that regards imo


----------



## Jwick

asus lost it with their pricing-worth IMO


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> they have 10 year warranty, which other water block company has that?


10 years while 99% of users won't even use it for that long.
Like lets put 50 years warranty on a part almost everybody will change in few years or 5 years at most.
10 years for a part that will be used Just fo4 few years is good marketing.


----------



## Jwick

well i disagree intel lga115x waterblocks have been the same for a while. and the lga 1700 socket is compatible with the optimus blocks


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> okay wait EK IS GARBAGE. OPTIMUS IS MUCH BETTER. NO EXCUSES THERE


..
is the dark that bad? do we really have enough data from good user base?

koolance made superb innovative products that are still missed until today.

so i have no hope of optimus lasting long.
bykski, barrows are insanely big atm. bkyski just launched a premium line called granzon
ekwb has a huge following. their nickel plating is still garbage and they dont want to admit.
corsair entered the fray and seems like this will get bigger. bitspower seems to forever stand by their insane pricing. 

i just dont see optimus lasting.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> asus lost it with their pricing-worth IMO


that no argument there. but somebody has to pay all that freebies, product manager, roadshows, etc etc i guess. 


Jwick said:


> they have 10 year warranty, which other water block company has that?


i can give u 20 years warranty.
i cant guarantee i will be alive by then

are u forgetting bfg warranty. ? lets rma that card.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> one thing i hate abt asus is that why do i need to dig to find the best bios for my stuff? why cant the latest bios be the best. thoughts? evga is much straight forward in that regards imo


yup. for end user its a pain. but on the high end say ram and cpu. the variation is big
so support the best bin or general and remain mediocre. that also a problem. afaik thats y mode 1/2 came about.
thats why skews option and intel full mrc algo choices was open up.

but it is a fine line. in z490 cml i couldnt get 4 dimm to be consistent at all.

but xmp generally works on asus qvl


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> that no argument there. but somebody has to pay all that freebies, product manager, roadshows, etc etc i guess.
> 
> i can give u 20 years warranty.
> i cant guarantee i will be alive by then
> 
> are u forgetting bfg warranty. ? lets rma that card.


i get your point, i cant guarentee whether i will wake up tmr either. but then why arent other companies providing 10 years warranty then ? it doesnt hurt being there right? still better than 2or 3 years.


----------



## bscool

Bringing back memories Universal abit > Motherboard, Digital Speakers, iDome, AirPace, Multimedia


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover what are at auto the following timings for you?
tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr & _dd


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i get your point, i cant guarentee whether i will wake up tmr either. but then why arent other companies providing 10 years warranty then ? it doesnt hurt being there right? still better than 2or 3 years.


because small companies need that to make users buy. 
its pure marketing. nothing to do with them actually delivering that promise.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> because small companies need that to make users buy.
> its pure marketing. nothing to do with them actually delivering that promise.


but optimus isnt a new company they have been in aerospace for a while now.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> because small companies need that to make users buy.
> its pure marketing. nothing to do with them actually delivering that promise.


For the most part they know there will be almost 0 users that will make use of 10 years warranty. And even if there will be, it will maybe be 1 in 1.000.000 user, so will be not a problem to handle, financially.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> y are u so hyped up with the brand over two products you bought?
> 
> evga xoc brand? lets look at hwbot
> dont see it
> ok lets go to hwbot forum..
> looking hard atm for tools etc.. brb.. maybe got to dig deep like their bios ...


well cens was on the z590 dark right on couple of his record right?


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> well cens was on the z590 dark right on couple of his record right?


i was looking for user base on hci


----------



## Jwick

dont worry there will be daily stable pics soon  on the dark. had some hiccups with some stuffs and personal stuffs as well.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> dont worry there will be daily stable pics soon  on the dark. had some hiccups with some stuffs and personal stuffs as well.


thats what we need. screenshot shuts-up all stories. lol.,


----------



## Groove2013

Maybe Dark is slightly better than Apex, with B-DIEs in gear 1, provided RAM kit and CPU's IMC are good.

Eager to see the results.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> I think that the new BIOS microcode degraded FPS for me.
> 
> With previous BIOS and exactly same settings, FPS was higher.


Nvm...
Several timings were wrong, for some reason...


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @51|46 
Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
2x8gb @3866 14-14-14-28 1T @1.475 
SA|MCIO - 1.35|1.35

1T easy on Asus Bios 1102


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @51|46
> Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
> 2x8gb @3866 14-14-14-28 1T @1.475
> SA|MCIO - 1.35|1.35
> 
> 1T easy on Asus Bios 1102


Don't give Asus too much credit. This is your OC skills


----------



## Jwick

wait isnt the read/copy bandwidth higher than the theoretical max for rkl? am i missing something?


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover what are at auto the following timings for you?
> tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr & _dd


I set 4 values you mentioned to auto.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @51|45
Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
2x8gb @ 5000 17-17-17-34 1T @1.575
SA|MCIO - 1.4|1.35


----------



## IronAge

@cstkl1 

You would like to share cmo/Profile for the 3866C14 1T Setting ? i would like to test all of my SR B-Die with it.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> You would like to share cmo/Profile for the 3866C14 1T Setting ? i would like to test all of my SR B-Die with it.


seeing what happened
this time bro not gonna share .
if u can do the 3866 1t u can do the 5kc17 and high chance dr bdie will profit from this also.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> seeing what happened
> this time bro not gonna share .
> if u can do the 3866 1t u can do the 5kc17 and high chance dr bdie will profit from this also.


u can share it privately to him, if u are okay with.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> u can share it privately to him, if u are okay with.


nah. this is was not easy. the hours spent.

tested warzone just now fps was through da roof.

also think i had shared plenty of months/weeks of work on this thread. 
but i reckon this will soon be plug and play


----------



## Jwick

how is DR 1t gear 1?


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> how is DR 1t gear 1?


difficult to scale up.
rtl 58|58
now can test buildzoid nonsense of number of commands per sec.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> tested warzone just now fps was through da roof.


If you were to compare two memory profiles for best gaming performance, which would be the best you think :

4500 18-19-19-38, RTL 67/68, IOL 8/8 and all other sub timings tweaked
4266 16-17-17-36, RTL 61/61, IOL 7/7 and all other sub timings tweaked

I know the difference in the AIDA64 benchmark between those two profiles, but what would you recommend for best gaming performance?

Edit : 10900K system btw


----------



## Jwick

not being rude but
1) this is a 11th gen thread
2) u can test it out for yourself 
different games favor different settings.


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> If you were to compare two memory profiles for best gaming performance, which would be the best you think :
> 
> 4500 18-19-19-38, RTL 67/68, IOL 8/8 and all other sub timings tweaked
> 4266 16-17-17-36, RTL 61/61, IOL 7/7 and all other sub timings tweaked
> 
> I know the difference in the AIDA64 benchmark between those two profiles, but what would you recommend for best gaming performance?
> 
> Edit : 10900K system btw


4500c18..
u can test this easy on timespy gpu scores

need to see all these sub timings also


----------



## murenitu

RTL 67/68, IOL 8/8 Could you tell me these times where they are inside the asus bios ????


----------



## bscool

murenitu said:


> RTL 67/68, IOL 8/8 Could you tell me these times where they are inside the asus bios ????


You cant set them manually with 11th gen and Asus. Enable Round Trip Latency and it will train them as low as it can.

The # you posted look like 10th gen #s.


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> seeing what happened


what happened ?  :



> this time bro not gonna share .
> if u can do the 3866 1t u can do the 5kc17 and high chance dr bdie will profit from this also.


no prob, just asking. i have older B-Die Kits mostly, so i am bound to Gear1 and low latency with these Kits.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> what happened ?  :
> 
> 
> 
> no prob, just asking. i have older B-Die Kits mostly, so i am bound to Gear1 and low latency with these Kits.


nothing significant

i am now testing gear 1 1T claim buildzoid making





in the past 1T was related to adding delay on the bus side of memory controller to sending data to ram. think they call it chip select etc. 
its measured in clock cycle

never have i ever hear number of no commands per second like what he is saying . so curious.


----------



## fluidwire

cstkl1 said:


> nothing significant
> 
> i am now testing gear 1 1T claim buildzoid making
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in the past 1T was related to adding delay on the bus side of memory controller to sending data to ram. think they call it chip select etc.
> its measured in clock cycle
> 
> never have i ever hear number of no commands per second like what he is saying . so curious.


Is he even serious? Like finding the sheet is matters of like 15 seconds. Intel has link to the technical documentation on each CPU page. Did he really says it´s so hard to find it and he has no idea how to get there?


----------



## Jwick

fluidwire said:


> Is he even serious? Like finding the sheet is matters of like 15 seconds. Intel has link to the technical documentation on each CPU page. Did he really says it´s so hard to find it and he has no idea how to get there?


its actually annoying to navigate through intel websites. and no not all documentations are in the cpu spec area. 








Product Specifications


quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




ark.intel.com




only datasheet 2


----------



## Jwick

why does BZ hate dallying 11th gen so much???


----------



## fluidwire

Jwick said:


> its actually annoying to navigate through intel websites. and no not all documentations are in the cpu spec area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Product Specifications
> 
> 
> quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ark.intel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only datasheet 2


well:
Intel.com, then
Product Specs
Processors
Intel® Core™ Processors
11th Gen Intel Core Processors
- now pick just any one -
Technical Documentation

So just 6 clicks on the Intel page to get Volume 2 of 2. Not that bad imo. And yes, I agree there is as well a note some documents are confidential and hidden. Anyway, you may find Volume 1 of 2 through Intel search, just type "11 gen desktop datasheet" it´s enough and you get it.



Jwick said:


> why does BZ hate dallying 11th gen so much???


This question I am interested as well.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> why does BZ hate dallying 11th gen so much???


He is noob overclocking cpu's to stable condition...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Poor Buildzoid. So successful at such a young age. It’s no wonder he’s become a target for the has beens and never wases of the overclocking community who are notorious for eating their own.


----------



## Arni90

Jwick said:


> why does BZ hate dallying 11th gen so much???


Because it's only competetitive on HWBOT?

For regular gamers, the 5600X, 5800X, and 5900X are a lot more compelling and competitive


----------



## Groove2013

Performance alone is not what counts for majority of users.
It's performance you get for a specific price and also power draw for that performance and price.

And that's where 11th gen sucks.


----------



## Groove2013

I can do 3866 MHz 1N as well, but CPU temp is much higher than with 2N.

Does 1N make such a huge/important difference vs. 2N?

Same goes for 3960 MHz 2N vs. 3866 MHz 2N.
At 3960 MHz CPU is much hotter than at 3866 MHz.


----------



## Groove2013

If 1N doesn't bring that much, I would rather go for 3866 MHz 2N instead of 3960 MHz 2N and tighten the timings slightly more than at 3960 MHz and that's it.


----------



## Groove2013

Difference between 1N and 2N is there, but it's marginal I would say, 2-5 FPS, in most games.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> nothing significant
> 
> i am now testing gear 1 1T claim buildzoid making
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in the past 1T was related to adding delay on the bus side of memory controller to sending data to ram. think they call it chip select etc.
> its measured in clock cycle
> 
> never have i ever hear number of no commands per second like what he is saying . so curious.


Probably he referred to the bubble cycles of the N:1 mode.


----------



## Groove2013

I see now that even if my CPU would have been cooler, for 1N you need to much voltage. Not worth it.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Probably he referred to the bubble cycles of the N:1 mode.
> 
> View attachment 2524765


dont think so

he is referring to 
cmd is based on delay rate from imc to chip.
think u heard before this term"chip select"

so normally this is on bus cycle of imc to dram
but now in rkl we have imc frequency so he using the imc speed


anyway. back to SS instead of yapping .
this will be my gear 1 profile
3866 13-14-14-14 1N trfc 218 rtl 56|56
just testing consistency before hitting 1000% hci runs. 

gear 2 5066c17 is inconsistent but hmm 
its doable on cache 46. still cant figure out y 5k had to give that cache 46 up when its prime stable.


----------



## Jwick

i mean stock 10900k isnt stable on linpack lol


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> dont think so
> 
> he is referring to
> cmd is based on delay rate from imc to chip.
> think u heard before this term"chip select"
> 
> so normally this is on bus cycle of imc to dram
> but now in rkl we have imc frequency so he using the imc speed
> 
> 
> anyway. back to SS instead of yapping .
> this will be my gear 1 profile
> 3866 13-14-14-14 1N trfc 218 rtl 56|56
> just testing consistency before hitting 1000% hci runs.
> 
> gear 2 5066c17 is inconsistent but hmm
> its doable on cache 46. still cant figure out y 5k had to give that cache 46 up when its prime stable.


What are the voltages, considering 1N and also CPU temp?
My guess is that voltages are pretty high.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> i mean stock 10900k isnt stable on linpack lol


?


----------



## murenitu

I feel that people really help little!

In the other 10900k forum people were much more participatory, what is the use of showing 11900k screenshots with latency and super good memories, if the rest is lost.

Even with the memory it is not clear, I have asked several times what secondary or tertiary times are important to play and I do not get an answer.

In the past when I tried to put the memory adjusted in the 10900k, it was a real headache the little information or guides that explain step by step option by option that each thing does or that must be taken into account for the ram. especially the secondary and tertiary times.

I think I will choose to go through everything and wait for the 12900k to buy a factory memory as expensive as possible and forget about it.


----------



## YaqY

murenitu said:


> I feel that people really help little!
> 
> In the other 10900k forum people were much more participatory, what is the use of showing 11900k screenshots with latency and super good memories, if the rest is lost.
> 
> Even with the memory it is not clear, I have asked several times what secondary or tertiary times are important to play and I do not get an answer.
> 
> In the past when I tried to put the memory adjusted in the 10900k, it was a real headache the little information or guides that explain step by step option by option that each thing does or that must be taken into account for the ram. especially the secondary and tertiary times.
> 
> I think I will choose to go through everything and wait for the 12900k to buy a factory memory as expensive as possible and forget about it.


People can't spoon-feed you, ram is a lot of trial and error. This guide can help, MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper. Tune tcl/trcd/tcwl, those are important on training. Tfaw/trrdl/trrds 16/4/4, lower trfc about 140ns or so on bdie depending on cooling/bin then work on tertiaries and trtp. Adjust voltage to what can be cooled and comfortable for you.


----------



## Jwick

first of all i want to say thanks to sieger for the disponibility he had doing the test i were asking for we were able to do some tests with a 10900k with the z590 asrock formula everyone in the discord were reporting that the 2018 version with linpack porteus were unstable with the newest intel processor, specifically the 10th gen series (mismatch residuals on low problem size 8144) i couldn't think of anything of what was causing the problem on such processor that weren't happening in all the older generations of chip i was just thinking about the intel processors and why intel cameback to 8cores with rocketlake after a monolithic 10core die. obviously the first though should be that the 11900k has such high wattage consumption that couldn't allow higher count number and that's right but it's not the only problem. why intel were ready to lose 2cores instead fighting amd with more cores? simply, because they weren't fully stable on a monolithic die on the ringbus but back in the days they were ready to lose stability to keep the meme"gaming crown" against amd, this is showing you how intel is trying to reach amd desperately after years and years of sleeping and losing in every segment, server and consumer side. yes, we are "latencychasers" but we can't deny that amd is far ahead in any other aspect. the real problem with the 10th gen is not the fantomatic "2018 libraries" of porteus but instead is the ringbus that can't keepup more than 8cores, that's the real reason because they had to go back to 8cores on rocketlake with the ringbus configuration. 10th gen was just a desperate move from intel to keep the leadership in the gaming segment while sacrificing instability, this explain even the 5.3 stock clocks. they actually scammed consumer chip with unrealistic clock frequencies and unrealistic xmp from ram brands.

it's not about libraries, it's about instability of the 10th intel gen we test 8cores HT ON/OFF~ 9cores HT ON/OFF ~ 10cores HT ON/OFF as you can see in the screenshot disabling hyperthreading gives you higher gflops and that's equivalent to higher stress to the chip/memory/ringbus and we noticed the limit of the chip stability with 9cores HT ON and 9cores HT OFF magically, the 10900k with 8 cores with HT ON/OFF is fully stable with the porteus linpack the coreclock is fixed to 4ghz on a custom loop, so temperature is undercontrol this is the first screenshot 8cores HT on

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954048146813028/4ghzHTON8CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954101234118706/4ghzHTOFF8CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954188416925706/4ghzHTON9CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954254926008351/4ghzHTOFF9CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954410396278794/4ghzHTOFF10CORES.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954351223042118/4ghzHTON10CORES.jpg

this is from Daniel. i got this from a discord community.


----------



## Jwick

Claiming an inherently unstable cpu is better, that is copium.
Unless you don't care about stability


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

cstkl1 said:


> dont think so
> 
> he is referring to
> cmd is based on delay rate from imc to chip.
> think u heard before this term"chip select"
> 
> so normally this is on bus cycle of imc to dram
> but now in rkl we have imc frequency so he using the imc speed
> 
> 
> anyway. back to SS instead of yapping .
> this will be my gear 1 profile
> 3866 13-14-14-14 1N trfc 218 rtl 56|56
> just testing consistency before hitting 1000% hci runs.
> 
> gear 2 5066c17 is inconsistent but hmm
> its doable on cache 46. still cant figure out y 5k had to give that cache 46 up when its prime stable.


That might be true. 









I guess in gear 2, MC sends commands at the half rate of the DRAM due to the halved MC clock.

Have you tried higher vcore for the 5k and 46 ring?


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> Claiming an inherently unstable cpu is better, that is copium.
> Unless you don't care about stability


Unstable for u dude, i don't think you understand ram tuning and how to test stability. Should check some of the setups people like Phoenix/Nizzen etc run, stable pushing things to the limit.


----------



## Jwick

bruh he is on stock. i dont wanna argue abt this anymore. the 10core cml isnt completely stable. everyone can believe what they want.


----------



## cstkl1

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That might be true.
> View attachment 2524774
> 
> 
> I guess in gear 2, MC sends commands at the half rate of the DRAM due to the halved MC clock.
> 
> Have you tried higher vcore for the 5k and 46 ring?


if overvolt yes will work but that will be heading to 5.2ghz cpu
RKL has issues when cpu hits 80C and i am at that borderline with my cpu unless i turned up my ac full

5066 was way easier on earlier bios atleast that one error out tm5 20 cycle like 2-3 errors.. with cache 46
this bios is difficult. it seems to be zoned to one pairing of twcl. previous bioses allows us a leeway to use many twcl pairings...


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> first of all i want to say thanks to sieger for the disponibility he had doing the test i were asking for we were able to do some tests with a 10900k with the z590 asrock formula everyone in the discord were reporting that the 2018 version with linpack porteus were unstable with the newest intel processor, specifically the 10th gen series (mismatch residuals on low problem size 8144) i couldn't think of anything of what was causing the problem on such processor that weren't happening in all the older generations of chip i was just thinking about the intel processors and why intel cameback to 8cores with rocketlake after a monolithic 10core die. obviously the first though should be that the 11900k has such high wattage consumption that couldn't allow higher count number and that's right but it's not the only problem. why intel were ready to lose 2cores instead fighting amd with more cores? simply, because they weren't fully stable on a monolithic die on the ringbus but back in the days they were ready to lose stability to keep the meme"gaming crown" against amd, this is showing you how intel is trying to reach amd desperately after years and years of sleeping and losing in every segment, server and consumer side. yes, we are "latencychasers" but we can't deny that amd is far ahead in any other aspect. the real problem with the 10th gen is not the fantomatic "2018 libraries" of porteus but instead is the ringbus that can't keepup more than 8cores, that's the real reason because they had to go back to 8cores on rocketlake with the ringbus configuration. 10th gen was just a desperate move from intel to keep the leadership in the gaming segment while sacrificing instability, this explain even the 5.3 stock clocks. they actually scammed consumer chip with unrealistic clock frequencies and unrealistic xmp from ram brands.
> 
> it's not about libraries, it's about instability of the 10th intel gen we test 8cores HT ON/OFF~ 9cores HT ON/OFF ~ 10cores HT ON/OFF as you can see in the screenshot disabling hyperthreading gives you higher gflops and that's equivalent to higher stress to the chip/memory/ringbus and we noticed the limit of the chip stability with 9cores HT ON and 9cores HT OFF magically, the 10900k with 8 cores with HT ON/OFF is fully stable with the porteus linpack the coreclock is fixed to 4ghz on a custom loop, so temperature is undercontrol this is the first screenshot 8cores HT on
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954048146813028/4ghzHTON8CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954101234118706/4ghzHTOFF8CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954188416925706/4ghzHTON9CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954254926008351/4ghzHTOFF9CORES.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954410396278794/4ghzHTOFF10CORES.jpg
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556165710452228104/881954351223042118/4ghzHTON10CORES.jpg
> 
> this is from Daniel. i got this from a discord community.


this is more @Falkentyne area. 
I leech off most of what i know from cml issues etc from his postings and testing it later only when ghostrunner came up.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> bruh he is on stock. i dont wanna argue abt this anymore. the 10core cml isnt completely stable. everyone can believe what they want.


i have seen many 10850KA/10900kA ( avengers edition) fail intel cpu tool 
and has whea at stock.
K and KF not common for stock.


----------



## murenitu

if you want an anectode on the 10900k

I had 3 of them and got a good cpu with sp 80 with delid and copper ihs 20% bigger than the roocktool friends.

I was running the cpu for 1 year at 5.3 all cores for about 10 months, under 1.4v.

From one day to another in a bios update, the cpu shut down and never worked properly again doing the slightest OC, it only worked intrinsically from STOCK. just like OEM. not even with IA overcloking.

Besides having WHEA errors that I later discovered that they were parity errors.

Now I have the 11900k and although I know it is "better for gaming" I have a bad sp of 50 with voltages of 1.6v and peak for 5.3 for now I'm testing and I can not do adaptively 5.1 all cores I'm trying to find a dynamic oc per core of 53x3 52x4 and 51x7 and 50x0 but still can not get it.

I do not know what would be the reasonable Vcore voltage cap for this micro I think it should be somewhat higher than 10900k I understand that a 1.4v Vcore at LOAD, as in peaks will be something more. but I understand that does not affect much, it is the sustained value that hurts.

Regarding memory if I turn on stock XMP my 4 sticks 4000cl18-19-39 get to 65ns latency a horrible thing. so I only got 3600cl14/14/14/28 gear 1 with latencies over 45ns.

This is the summary...now I'm thinking whether to take advantage of this pc or stick with it as it is and change the gpu or buy a new one when the 1200k comes out.


----------



## xl_digit

can someone please provide the file for download again
ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102

i can´t download, its listed but not accessible.


----------



## IronAge

xl_digit said:


> can someone please provide the file for download again
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102
> 
> i can´t download, its listed but not accessible.


may be downloaded without issues.

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102


----------



## jlakai

This is about as good as I can get it no matter what I do. Not even sure if its worth pushing any further since its stable and cpu doesn't even get to 70c


----------



## murenitu

jlakai said:


> This is about as good as I can get it no matter what I do. Not even sure if its worth pushing any further since its stable and cpu doesn't even get to 70c
> View attachment 2524779



more or less like me, what voltage are you having from vcore?

that you have profile 4.9 all cores and 53x3?


----------



## murenitu

I have some momentary peak of 1.402v but under load it is below.

temperature in test touching 91c with avx test like r20 for example.

LL5C in formula XII is too aggressive? or can I leave it like this for 24/7 continuous?

I don't want to load the micro like I did with the 10900k that I used a very aggressive LLC7.

Here in the Z490 formula the LLC5 would be like the LLC4 on z590 boards? 

the oc is per core and is in 53x3 52x4 51x7 50x8









oc11900k


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## murenitu

more pics









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----------



## fluidwire

murenitu said:


> more pics


This is really unnecessary, you may just post Asrock mem configurator screen, to show memory settings.

edit: you may get it here


https://download.asrock.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.9).zip


----------



## murenitu

fluidwire said:


> This is really unnecessary, you may just post Asrock mem configurator screen, to show memory settings.
> 
> edit: you may get it here
> 
> 
> https://download.asrock.com/Utility/Formula/TimingConfigurator(v4.0.9).zip


thanks! but what I wanted to teach and my question was about the Vcore, I see that it goes up to 1.43v is it very worrying?


----------



## jlakai

murenitu said:


> more or less like me, what voltage are you having from vcore?
> 
> that you have profile 4.9 all cores and 53x3?


after messing around trying all kinds of stuff. I just decided to just leave everything on auto, xmp, but set vccsa 1.35 thats it.


----------



## murenitu

I have the profile made of oc, but for now I will verify for a while the one applied by the solo for ai overcloking to see if it moves through that voltage range.

My oc 53x3 52x5 and 51x8 have voltages oscillating between 1,350 and 1,430 on load and I do not know if it is a lot or not.

the ia profile applies 53x3 and 49x8 to me all in automatic with LLC4 I think, or 5 now I'm not sure for now ... I'm going to throw like this, I have had frankly very bad luck with this cpu


----------



## chibi

I current have the following set of ram from GSKILL: F4-4800C18D-16GTRS (16 GB)

Will this pair well with 11900K CPU for memory overclocking on Apex XIII? Or is a change of ram to 4000C14 in order? Maybe 16 or 32GB kit depending on price.

I personally think the older TZ Royal kits look nicer than the TZ Royal Elites. Is there any difference in performance between the two styles, with same clock/timings?


----------



## Groove2013

chibi said:


> I current have the following set of ram from GSKILL: F4-4800C18D-16GTRS (16 GB)
> 
> Will this pair well with 11900K CPU for memory overclocking on Apex XIII? Or is a change of ram to 4000C14 in order? Maybe 16 or 32GB kit depending on price.
> 
> I personally think the older TZ Royal kits look nicer than the TZ Royal Elites. Is there any difference in performance between the two styles, with same clock/timings?


Better to go for 32 GB instead of 16 GB.
What performers best on Rocket Lake is gear 1, so less than 4000 MHz RAM, something like 3866 MHz, but with as tight timings as possible.
So yes, 4000 MHz CL kit is the best choice here, 32 GB.
Between RipJaws V, RGB, Neo, Royal and Royal Elite, there is only visuals difference, as long as specs are same.


----------



## murenitu

I am using a kit of 4 clubs well actually 2 kits of 2 clubs of 4000cl18. I have it set to 3600cl14-14-14-28 gear 1


----------



## chibi

Groove2013 said:


> Better to go for 32 GB instead of 16 GB.
> What performers best on Rocket Lake is gear 1, so less than 4000 MHz RAM, something like 3866 MHz, but with as tight timings as possible.
> So yes, 4000 MHz CL kit is the best choice here, 32 GB.
> Between RipJaws V, RGB, Neo, Royal and Royal Elite, there is only visuals difference, as long as specs are same.


Thank you, the 4000c14 32GB kit is $700 here. I will have to see if I can resell my 4800C18 16GB kit first.


----------



## Groove2013

chibi said:


> Thank you, the 4000c14 32GB kit is $700 here. I will have to see if I can resell my 4800C18 16GB kit first.


Buy whichever of 4000 CL14 models is cheaper, if visuals isn't something you care much about.


----------



## fluidwire

chibi said:


> Thank you, the 4000c14 32GB kit is $700 here. I will have to see if I can resell my 4800C18 16GB kit first.


Tbh 4800C18 would work great under gear2, it would compete with 3866C14 gear1 just fine. Considering you already got the 4800 kit, then unless you need 32GB for some specific tasks, it´s wasted money.


----------



## chibi

I guess I should ask this before I go down the rabbit hole. My current setup is 4200C16 1T with 34.3 ns latency. It's 1300% HCI Memtest and 2 hours GSAT stable.

Current build: 9900K (5.0GHz core / 4.7GHz cache), Apex XI, 16GB Ram, Nvidia 1060 3GB GPU (main reason for upgrade as I just received a 3080 Ti Strix).

Will I get similar results with 11900K + Apex XIII? This will be my last upgrade for a while so I want to make it right. I don't want to early adopt into Alder Lake.

My z390 is super dialed in with low voltages and a good balance of overclocking the ram and cpu. I don't mind upgrading as I like the build and overclocking process. Just wondering if I can expect the same on z590 platform as it should be a lot more mature now.


----------



## murenitu

[QUOTE = "chibi, publicación: 28868331, miembro: 529073"]
Supongo que debería preguntar esto antes de bajar por la madriguera del conejo. Mi configuración actual es 4200C16 1T con una latencia de 34,3 ns. Es 1300% HCI Memtest y 2 horas GSAT estable.

Versión actual: 9900K (núcleo de 5,0 GHz / caché de 4,7 GHz), Apex XI, 16 GB de RAM, GPU Nvidia 1060 de 3 GB (razón principal para la actualización, ya que acabo de recibir una 3080 Ti Strix).

¿Obtendré resultados similares con 11900K + Apex XIII? Esta será mi última actualización por un tiempo, así que quiero hacerlo bien. No quiero adoptar temprano en Alder Lake.

Mi z390 está súper marcado con bajos voltajes y un buen equilibrio de overclocking de la RAM y la CPU. No me importa actualizar ya que me gusta el proceso de compilación y overclocking. Me pregunto si puedo esperar lo mismo en la plataforma z590, ya que debería ser mucho más maduro ahora.

View attachment 2524879

[/ CITA]

NO


----------



## Groove2013

@murenitu english only here. It's the same for everybody.


----------



## Groove2013

chibi said:


> My current setup is 4200C16 1T with 34.3 ns latency.
> 
> Will I get similar results with 11900K + Apex XIII?
> 
> Just wondering if I can expect the same on z590


You can forget about 4200 CL16 1T.
Be happy if you can do 3866 MHz and that's 2T only.


----------



## chibi

Groove2013 said:


> You can forget about 4200 CL16 1T.
> Be happy if you can do 3866 MHz and that's 2T only.


How is latency with 3866? What Cx is usually associated with this frequency for RKL?

Is it possible for sub 35 ns with RKL?


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> How is latency with 3866? What Cx is usually associated with this frequency for RKL?
> 
> Is it possible for sub 35 ns with RKL?


Binning cpus and ram. If your 4800c18 sticks are good you might do 4800-5000 gear 2 42-43ns.

I would try them before buying a new kit. Gear 1 is lotto some can do 3600 some 4000. I have had 3 11900k and only 1 does 3866+. I have those same 4800c18 and they do fine in gear 1 @ 3866c14-15-15. Latency 37-38ns Latency depends on timings and cache also.


----------



## Arni90

chibi said:


> How is latency with 3866? What Cx is usually associated with this frequency for RKL?
> 
> Is it possible for sub 35 ns with RKL?


You'll probably not hit lower than 38 ns with RKL.

Do however note that there's a lot more to performance than the memory latency number that AIDA64 spits out


----------



## chibi

bscool said:


> Binning cpus and ram. If your 4800c18 sticks are good you might do 4800-5000 gear 2 42-43ns.
> 
> I would try them before buying a new kit. Gear 1 is lotto some can do 3600 some 4000. I have had 3 11900k and only 1 does 3866+. I have those same 4800c18 and they do fine in gear 1 @ 3866c14-15-15. Latency 37-38ns Latency depends on timings and cache also.


Thank you, I will save the 4800c18 and just continue with them. No need for extra ram for my usage. 

My 9900KS IMC is very strong, as well as low voltage leak core. LLC5 results in 1.13v on avx load stable for 5GHz (under 80 degrees with NHD15S). I hope my 11900K will be lucky as well, but not likely as this 9900KS is a very good sample.





Arni90 said:


> You'll probably not hit lower than 38 ns with RKL.
> 
> *Do however note that there's a lot more to performance than the memory latency number that AIDA64 spits out*


Can you expand on that please? If lower bandwidth and higher latency for RKL when comparing to my CFL, how does that equal more performance?

Thanks for your guys results, it has set my expectations and I won't lose sleep over sub 40 ns.


----------



## murenitu

murenitu said:


> RTL 67/68, IOL 8/8 Could you tell me these times where they are inside the asus bios ????



Can someone assist me and give me this information?

where is the io? in an asus bios?

How do I play those values?


----------



## rhyno

murenitu said:


> Can someone assist me and give me this information?
> 
> where is the io? in an asus bios?
> 
> How do I play those values?


----------



## chibi

Is there an in depth guide for overclocking 11900k I can review please? I saw a lot of youtube videos that just say enable xmp and utilize the AI overclock...


----------



## Arni90

chibi said:


> Can you expand on that please? If lower bandwidth and higher latency for RKL when comparing to my CFL, how does that equal more performance?


The short and easy answer is that Rocket Lake has an improved microarchitecture, which can hide memory latency more efficiently than Skylake could and perform more calculations per clock cycle. Every improved microarchitecture has been doing this since the Pentium Pro came out, as DRAM access latency couldn't really be improved.

Some games are inherently more memory-starved than others, Shadow of the Tomb Raider ends up with lower performance on Rocket Lake compared to Comet Lake after memory overclocking. A bigger L3 cache might have alleviated this, but Rocket Lake already has a massive die size above 300 mm^2


----------



## bscool

@chibi 




Not a lot to of OC headroom in 11th gen 51/45 to 52/46 is typical from what I know. Top chips can do 53 to 54 and cache 47-48 for daily/benches.

Mem tuning is similar to past gens with main difference gear 1 and 2.

Take SP rating with a grain of salt.


----------



## chibi

bscool said:


> @chibi
> 
> Not a lot to of OC headroom in 11th gen 51/45 to 52/46 is typical from what I know. Top chips can do 53 to 54 and cache 47-48 for daily/benches.
> 
> Mem tuning is similar to past gens with main difference gear 1 and 2.
> 
> Take SP rating with a grain of salt.


Would the following be correct for max daily voltages on ambient custom loop?

vcore - 1.40v
vram - 1.45v
vccio - 1.30
vccsa - 1.25

Keep temps below 80 degrees and push as high as it can go stable?


----------



## murenitu

I have no idea what the results will be like, but I can't do more than this.....









aidaaa


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test


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test2


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----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> Would the following be correct for max daily voltages on ambient custom loop?
> 
> vcore - 1.40v
> vram - 1.45v
> vccio - 1.30
> vccsa - 1.25
> 
> Keep temps below 80 degrees and push as high as it can go stable?



You will have to do trial and error. I find I need a little more sa than io on mem. I think 1.45v on cpu is fine with llc6. Depends on a lot of factors. Dram 1.5 to 1.55 should be ok if you have good airflow. Just need to test.

1.45 dram will probably be in the 3600-3733c14 range. No way 3866c14. With tight subs. Same with gear 2 1.5v+ for 4800c17.


----------



## chibi

Thanks, I have an Apex XIII coming today so I will get around to doing preliminary air testing this weekend while waiting on the rest of my water cooling parts to arrive. I've been so accustomed to the lower voltages of early sky lake so it's nice that we have some more breathing room now.


----------



## Arni90

chibi said:


> Would the following be correct for max daily voltages on ambient custom loop?
> 
> vcore - 1.40v
> vram - 1.45v
> vccio - 1.30
> vccsa - 1.25
> 
> Keep temps below 80 degrees and push as high as it can go stable?


I need 1.55V with LLC6 to pass CB R23 at 5.3 GHz, but Rocket Lake is a completely different beast when it comes to voltages compared to Coffee Lake and Comet Lake. Cooling isn't really as difficult as people think


----------



## frantatech

chibi said:


> Would the following be correct for max daily voltages on ambient custom loop?
> 
> vcore - 1.40v
> vram - 1.45v
> vccio - 1.30
> vccsa - 1.25
> 
> Keep temps below 80 degrees and push as high as it can go stable?


I can´t comment on Vcore.
But about the rest, RKL is a bit different.
It has CPU VCCSA - you may go up to 1.45V easily (there was an info recently the Intel spec allows 1.52V max)
CPU VCCIO - you may left it on auto (1.05V). Someone set it a bit higher, iirc Safedisk run it always at 1.2V? Someone correct me if I am wrong. I did not noticed any difference tho, so personaly leaving it on auto.
CPU VCCIO MEM - I am not sure about max safe value, but up to 1.45V you should be fine.
And finally VDIM - depends on your cooling/airflow. If you have good cooling, even 1.55V is no problem.


----------



## Groove2013

If you set RAM frequency 3866 MHz or higher and leave SA on auto, my Apex 13 does 1.6 V SA on auto, which is way too much.
I would say that you should stay lower than 1.5 V SA. Or not higher than 1.45 V.
If possible, better lower than 1.45 V SA, if you plan to keep your build for several years.


----------



## murenitu

I am quite tired of this mic, the memory issue is a horror, there is no way to have a more or less decent latency with stability when you have 4 dimms set


----------



## ScomComputers

Hi guys, I have a similar question, a [email protected], ram [email protected]/cl18...how to start what voltages, then I will test the rest: vcore,vcccio,vccsa,vccio mem. ?
Please someone describe it to me.
Thank you very much !


----------



## Groove2013

ScomComputers said:


> Hi guys, I have a similar question, a [email protected], ram [email protected]/cl18...how to start what voltages, then I will test the rest: vcore,vcccio,vccsa,vccio mem. ?
> Please someone describe it to me.
> Thank you very much !


Just check the previous page...


----------



## ScomComputers

Groove2013 said:


> Just check the previous page...


Thank you,I've been reading the topic for a while....word,I didn't just throw up the question!
The problem is that everyone says different things!
There is no real tutorial on what why,how,how much...
I just need a brief description of the voltages mentioned,what to start with,how much is the maximum I can give, I read it....thanks...


----------



## frantatech

ScomComputers said:


> Thank you,I've been reading the topic for a while....word,I didn't just throw up the question!
> The problem is that everyone says different things!
> There is no real tutorial on what why,how,how much...


Because every ram, board, cpu imc is different. You have to tune it for your build. Anyway, there is really a lot good settings on previous pages. 
This is good guide: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper · GitHub 
Just start easy, lower freq, loose timings.


----------



## ScomComputers

frantatech said:


> Because every ram, board, cpu imc is different. You have to tune it for your build. Anyway, there is really a lot good settings on previous pages. Just pick one and start to tune it.


I understand and thank you for your reply but could you briefly describe, if you have already told me, how to use 5Ghz on all cores and a 4000mhz ram, what voltages to use,for starters, that's all I ask!
Vcore ? Vccsa? Vccio-default, Vcccio mem ?
Thank you !


----------



## bscool

@ScomComputers *



*


----------



## chibi

Putting in some work tonight. My 11900K with shipped BIOS is SP 87, looks like a good V/F curve. I read some posts about updating BIOS can change SP for better or for worse. If it turns out worse, is that really the case? Or just take it with a grain of salt?

Edit - I flashed to latest Apex XIII bios on ASUS web page. SP dropped to 86, v/f for 5300 now reads 1.45v instead of 1.40


----------



## geriatricpollywog

chibi said:


> Putting in some work tonight. My 11900K with shipped BIOS is SP 87, looks like a good V/F curve. I read some posts about updating BIOS can change SP for better or for worse. If it turns out worse, is that really the case? Or just take it with a grain of salt?
> 
> Edit - I flashed to latest Apex XIII bios on ASUS web page. SP dropped to 86, v/f for 5300 now reads 1.45v instead of 1.40
> 
> View attachment 2525045
> 
> 
> View attachment 2525046


SP50. You can ignore SP.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> SP50. You can ignore SP.
> 
> View attachment 2525047


sp value drop is because u had an older microcode with newer bios ( flaw of bios flasback) 

the increase in mv is by intel to accommodate
intel adaptive boost.


----------



## murenitu

these memories what do you think? would it be worth it?

F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR

tell me something please I'm about to buy them


----------



## YaqY

murenitu said:


> these memories what do you think? would it be worth it?
> 
> F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR
> 
> tell me something please I'm about to buy them


Its 4x8, not 2x16, ideally want dr bdie in 2x16.


----------



## murenitu

and this? 
*F4-4000C14D-32GTES*


----------



## YaqY

murenitu said:


> and this?
> *F4-4000C14D-32GTES*


It is good quality. It depends if it is worth the money for you though? For good gear 1 result the 4000 16-16 2x16 1.4V Bin should be really good as well.


----------



## sugi0lover

murenitu said:


> and this?
> *F4-4000C14D-32GTES*


For 11th Gen Gear 1 32GB, it's the best ram kit atm.


----------



## ScomComputers

Hello,I have a question,here is this video,but it doesn't work for me,how do you estimate that adaptive 1.450V is needed for the processor,*isn't that a lot for 24/7 *?
Thank you!


----------



## bscool

@murenitu I would try your current setup with 2x8 to see if you can run more than 3600 in gear 1. If you cant no point in getting the 2x16 4000c14kit to run 3600c12 or 3600c13 @ best. So little gain unless you just want to play. I know you have been stuck at 3600c14 with 4x8.

That way you eliminate the 4 sticks in Daisy Chain MB as limiting you and see if it is your IMC. Edit and make sure you have the 2 stick in the correct channels A2 and B2.


----------



## chibi

Bad news, my 3080 Ti does not fit the current Meshify C case. It's too long haha. Need to wait a few more weeks for water cooling parts to arrive before I can try it. Now I will go back to reading this thread and then work on OC. I'm currently on page 110 when I back tracked.

So far, I read a few people are getting good results with per core OC, with strong cores going to 5400 and then lowering down. That's an interesting approach as I'm used to all core OC.


----------



## napata

Is there even a point in per core OCs? I might've done it wrong but when I ran a single or two core workload it just loaded the wrong cores. Cores 5-6 boosted higher than the other cores but the workload was on cores 3-4 so it was pointless.

I never checked if this was also the case at stock though as stock turbo also has some cores at a higher clock speed.


----------



## GtiJason

ScomComputers said:


> Hello,I have a question,here is this video,but it doesn't work for me,how do you estimate that adaptive 1.450V is needed for the processor,*isn't that a lot for 24/7 *?
> Thank you!


Things are a bit different on new Intel architecture, depending on LLC setting 1.45v in bios means the die sense voltage is around 1.285v
Here's a look at Silicon Lottery's recommended voltages for their top available bin. They have another 100MHz higher (and like $1200) but only like 4% or less of cpu's binned could pass for that


----------



## ScomComputers

GtiJason said:


> Things are a bit different on new Intel architecture, depending on LLC setting 1.45v in bios means the die sense voltage is around 1.285v
> Here's a look at Silicon Lottery's recommended voltages for their top available bin. They have another 100MHz higher (and like $1200) but only like 4% or less of cpu's binned could pass for that


Thanks....now I'm using an MSI Z590 which has vcc sense, but I read that it's the same as the die sense on asus boards...hope so...


----------



## YaqY

ScomComputers said:


> Thanks....now I'm using an MSI Z590 which has vcc sense, but I read that it's the same as the die sense on asus boards...hope so...


Vcc sense isn’t the same as die sense. Check if you have vrvout in hwinfo if not then you won’t have for sense on Msi.


----------



## ScomComputers

YaqY said:


> Vcc sense isn’t the same as die sense. Check if you have vrvout in hwinfo if not then you won’t have for sense on Msi.


No vr_vout,if not the same then what,what is the point of using it?
This video says the same!


----------



## YaqY

ScomComputers said:


> No vr_vout,if not the same then what,what is the point of using it?
> This video says the same!


Toppc even did a vid on this too, vcc sense is the vcc sense pin to socket vss. It’s somewhat closer to die sense than socket sense but not fully accurate. Saw this on my Msi z490 board and compared vrvout to vcc sense(vcore) in hwinfo.


----------



## chibi

Wow cache is so finicky on this 11900k CPU!

Testing: All core 50x, stock cache, 1.35 vcore bios/llc5 - temp low 70's, Realbench v2.56 still going for 1 hour test

All core 50x, 45x cache, tested voltages up to 1.45v/llc5 - all fail within 5~10 minutes 

This is done on air with D15 for now until switch to custom water cooling.

I enabled manual voltage for the above testing and noticed my vlatch min and vlatch delta readings in HWInfo disappeared. Is this normal?


----------



## chibi

All core 5.0 GHz baseline CPU overclock established, passed 1 hour of Realbench 2.56 with 0 avx offset. With same settings, but bumping cache to 4500 and vcore up to 1.45, all tests failed within 5~10 minutes. Is cache oc normally this terrible for RKL? I will put cache aside for now until I can get better temps and voltages on custom water.

With a base OC confirmed, what's the best process to establish a higher per core? Do I do the same and go through each core one by one and up the multi until crash?

CPU: 5000
Cache: 4300
1.35 vcore bios, llc 5
Max temp 78, average 74

Now time to work on memory 

Edit - any idea what happened to my vlatch min/delta readings? They're just blanked out in HWInfo where I placed them.



Spoiler: Pictures



Right Click -> open in new tab to enlarge pictures.


----------



## bscool

@chibi Did you try 44 or 43(edit I see you have 43 stable). Just 1 tick can make or break. RKL is much harder to have high cache. I think the highest I have seen is 48 on water for a top bins like @sugi0lover


----------



## chibi

@bscool Cache 4300 I tested works. Did not try for 4400. Right now I can boot into windows with 3866 1.55v ram, 1.50 vsa, 1.45 vio mem. SA seems a bit high for my liking. Not sure if worth it to chase 3866, timings are not even tight and already requires this voltage just to boot windows.

4800C18 8GB dimms.


----------



## Clausewitz

Have there been any issues with 1102 bios?


----------



## sugi0lover

Wow, someone got 11900K yesterday and even after the bios update, SP is 104.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Wow, someone got 11900K yesterday and even after the bios update, SP is 104.
> 
> View attachment 2525152


Neat, is that yours?


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Neat, is that yours?


I am working on it ^^


----------



## chibi

3733c14 2T semi stable, HCI 300% so far. Can't boot into windows for 3866 even with brute forcing voltages to 1.55. Anyone have pointers on what to adjust? Bios dump attached.

Even with worse cpu + memory oc compared to my cfl system, rkl feels super snappy. I wonder if that's real architecture improvements, or i'm still in honeymoon phase with new hardware and it's all placebo, haha.


----------



## sugi0lover

chibi said:


> 3733c14 2T semi stable, HCI 300% so far. Can't boot into windows for 3866 even with brute forcing voltages to 1.55. Anyone have pointers on what to adjust? Bios dump attached.
> 
> Even with worse cpu + memory oc compared to my cfl system, rkl feels super snappy. I wonder if that's real architecture improvements, or i'm still in honeymoon phase with new hardware and it's all placebo, haha.
> 
> View attachment 2525157


*Try cstkl1's bios option~*
senseamp offset training disable
senseamp offset retraining disable
read timing centering 1d enable
roundtrip latency enable
turnaround timing training disable


----------



## GtiJason

Clausewitz said:


> Have there been any issues with 1102 bios?


I flashed it this afternoon on my B Bios and for some reason it has been misbehaving worse than I've ever seen. I updated ME firmware and everything first just in case but now while training DR ram I've seen it get stuck on 22, 36, F0, 68, 70, 83, A9 and B3 at least 30 times on already tested and nowhere near maxxed out mem kits + settings
It has something to do with the flash because when I swap to bios A (1007) is says bios is updating but then it boots into Windows/UEFI still on same 1007 bios and 15.0.21.1549 ME


----------



## chibi

sugi0lover said:


> *Try cstkl1's bios option~*
> senseamp offset training disable ✅
> senseamp offset retraining disable ✅
> read timing centering 1d enable ✅
> roundtrip latency enable ✅
> turnaround timing training disable ✅



Yup, I already had those settings. 3866 still cannot boot. I think my cpu is a dud imc. 3733 is top for this one at 2t. Not even 1T stable with 1102 bios.


----------



## sugi0lover

chibi said:


> Yup, I already had those settings. 3866 still cannot boot. I think my cpu is a dud imc. 3733 is top for this one at 2t. Not even 1T stable with 1102 bios.


I had SP89 11900K which couldn't boot 3866 at all. bad imc because the same ram kit can be stabilized gear1 4000 CL13 with my current 11900K.
1T is a lot harder than 2T.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> sp value drop is because u had an older microcode with newer bios ( flaw of bios flasback)
> 
> the increase in mv is by intel to accommodate
> intel adaptive boost.


Intresting, how to know real SP?


----------



## murenitu

Hi there.

I have some doubts, what is the difference between these 2 kits?

I do not know which one to buy?

They seem the same but I have no idea if there is something more hidden?

F4-4000C14D-32GTES
vs
F4-4000C14D-32GTRS


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> Intresting, how to know real SP?


some info

back in da original microcodes up to 2c
asus has a sp algo
then for intel atb intel added 50mv on >4.8ghz vid

sp value dropped 10points
asus adjusted it back.

so if u do certain combi of microcode and bios

u can get sp+10 lol.
but do u really want to..


----------



## cstkl1

murenitu said:


> Hi there.
> 
> I have some doubts, what is the difference between these 2 kits?
> 
> I do not know which one to buy?
> 
> They seem the same but I have no idea if there is something more hidden?
> 
> F4-4000C14D-32GTES
> vs
> F4-4000C14D-32GTRS


@GSKILL SUPPORT


----------



## geriatricpollywog

murenitu said:


> Hi there.
> 
> I have some doubts, what is the difference between these 2 kits?
> 
> I do not know which one to buy?
> 
> They seem the same but I have no idea if there is something more hidden?
> 
> F4-4000C14D-32GTES
> vs
> F4-4000C14D-32GTRS


Just the heatspreader.


----------



## Bakuya

cstkl1 said:


> some info
> 
> back in da original microcodes up to 2c
> asus has a sp algo
> then for intel atb intel added 50mv on >4.8ghz vid
> 
> sp value dropped 10points
> asus adjusted it back.
> 
> so if u do certain combi of microcode and bios
> 
> u can get sp+10 lol.
> but do u really want to..


I get 5 chips all are sp50.


----------



## cstkl1

Bakuya said:


> I get 5 chips all are sp50.


its the 5.2-5.3
up to 5.1 you are still normal
i would test it


----------



## ScomComputers

chibi said:


> All core 5.0 GHz baseline CPU overclock established, passed 1 hour of Realbench 2.56 with 0 avx offset. With same settings, but bumping cache to 4500 and vcore up to 1.45, all tests failed within 5~10 minutes. Is cache oc normally this terrible for RKL? I will put cache aside for now until I can get better temps and voltages on custom water.
> 
> With a base OC confirmed, what's the best process to establish a higher per core? Do I do the same and go through each core one by one and up the multi until crash?
> 
> CPU: 5000
> Cache: 4300
> 1.35 vcore bios, llc 5
> Max temp 78, average 74
> 
> Now time to work on memory
> 
> Edit - any idea what happened to my vlatch min/delta readings? They're just blanked out in HWInfo where I placed them.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pictures
> 
> 
> 
> Right Click -> open in new tab to enlarge pictures.
> 
> View attachment 2525128
> 
> 
> View attachment 2525129


Hello,mine is similar,I can say the same,but if I set the cpu to 5100 everything fails,I don't understand why,I can't make it stable! 
I've tried 51-51-51-51-51-50-50-50-50-50-50....but it fails even at 1.5V,if even 1 piece of 51 gets into the OC it fails....az allcore 50,and it runs with 1.35V super...


----------



## cstkl1

ScomComputers said:


> Hello,mine is similar,I can say the same,but if I set the cpu to 5100 everything fails,I don't understand why,I can't make it stable!
> I've tried 51-51-51-51-51-50-50-50-50-50-50....but it fails even at 1.5V,if even 1 piece of 51 gets into the OC it fails....az allcore 50,and it runs with 1.35V super...


has to be below 80c

#apexftw


----------



## ScomComputers

cstkl1 said:


> has to be below 80c
> 
> #apexftw


It is below 80 C, because I get a "watch dogs" when I start a chrome, it doesn't even get to the test, it freezes on loading!
2-3 weeks and then comes the apex,now I have a msi z590...but in vain I set the "vcc sense" and the " socket sense" shows the same in the bios and hwinfoban 5ghz...1.35V.... I don't understand does the "vcc sense" work ?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What is the best choice for 11900k? 
"Sync all core" or "by core"?


----------



## satinghostrider

RobertoSampaio said:


> What is the best choice for 11900k?
> "Sync all core" or "by core"?


By core takes alot of time and the difference isn't that big from sync all core. I prefer sync all core at 5.1/4.6 and it's plenty fast to run daily.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

satinghostrider said:


> By core takes alot of time and the difference isn't that big from sync all core. I prefer sync all core at 5.1/4.6 and it's plenty fast to run daily.


I think a lot of people will try to sync all core with 12900k.... LOL


----------



## satinghostrider

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think a lot of people will try to sync all core with 12900k.... LOL


11900k is already not easy going 5.2 all core for most. 5.1 is pretty much easy.
I think 12900k might be alot harder given how much hotter it will run with more cores.


----------



## bscool

Finally got 4700 to boot with DR b die. Errors shortly running memtest. I have z590 Unify X coming. Had a z590 Dark in the cart but for $250+ more I don't think it is worth it. Mainly curious about gear 2 DR b die testing. Will probably end up as my HTPC.


Edit the 4000c14 kit wont go much past 4533. The 4000c16-16-16 kit did 4600+ with same components.


----------



## chibi

I did more testing up to 1.52 vcore last night. The moment cache changed to 44 multiplier it errors and bsod. 4300 cache is max for this chip. Core is not bad, 51 all core with 1.37v in bios llc 5.

So this chip rating, I would say 1 out of 3.

yes - core clock decent
no - cache clock terrible
no - imc potentially not good. spent a lot of hours last night testing memory combo's and so far 3733 c14 / 2t can be brute forced with high voltages.


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> I did more testing up to 1.52 vcore last night. The moment cache changed to 44 multiplier it errors and bsod. 4300 cache is max for this chip. Core is not bad, 51 all core with 1.37v in bios llc 5.
> 
> So this chip rating, I would say 1 out of 3.
> 
> yes - core clock decent
> no - cache clock terrible
> no - imc potentially not good. spent a lot of hours last night testing memory combo's and so far 3733 c14 / 2t can be brute forced with high voltages.


Maybe under water it will do a little better? You could try gear 2 OC. Always fun to see those high clocks


----------



## chibi

I'm waiting on Optimus and Heatkiller parts. Both not shipped yet so I'm expecting 2~3 weeks before I can put it under water. Right now all testing is done with D15 

I'm really tempted to try one more 11900k and keep best one between the two. This current one is already pretty fail so if I hit 2/3 for next one will be a step up. I prefer strong imc and can live with average cache. But this one just doesn't feel "clean" in terms of voltages required. G2 possibility, this sample it just doesn't feel worth it to explore that option.


----------



## bscool

@chibi When you flashed the bios you used EZ flash in the bios? Flashback doesn't update microcode on Z590 Apex.

I don't think it would matter just a fyi.


----------



## bscool

Heads up for NewEgg has some nice ram on sale. Search for other kits here are two I was looking at, lowest price i have ever seen them.

2x8 4800c17 royals $225









G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4400 (PC4 35200) Desktop Memory Model F4-4400C17D-32GTRS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





2x16 4400c17 Royals $280






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com


----------



## chibi

bscool said:


> @chibi When you flashed the bios you used EZ flash in the bios? Flashback doesn't update microcode on Z590 Apex.
> 
> I don't think it would matter just a fyi.


Yes, I used EZ Flash through the bios. Is that the preferred way? I'm not sure about the microcode.


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> Yes, I used EZ Flash. Is that the preferred way? I'm not sure about the microcode.


Yeah you should be good then. You check it under advanced tab in bios and CPU.


----------



## chibi

Thx, mine is 4C too 

Testing G2, 4800 c19 can boot. 5033 failed 1.55 vdimm, 1.35 memio/sa


----------



## bscool

@chibi I have had 3 11900k and on z590 Apex they can only do 4800 on SR. I don't think it is the sticks because with the same CPUs and mem in z490 they can run 5000+. Weird. I was tempted to get a 4800v17 kit but I think Ill pass.


----------



## chibi

4800 C18 G2 running okay so far. Lowered SA / IO Mem to 1.20v and vdimm to 1.5 in round two of tweaking. HCI 160% so far. Worked on primary + secondary timings only. Third can be tweaked lower potentially. Round three of tweaking will see what I can pull out of the third timings while keeping voltages. Once everything is buttoned up, I will do a full HCI test for 1k coverage.


----------



## GSKILL SUPPORT

murenitu said:


> F4-4000C14D-32GTRS


When memory specifications are identical, the only difference is the physical heat spreader.

As far as the heat spreader difference, 32GTRS has an even/smooth silver/chrome mirror finish while the 32GTES is uneven/sculpted so reflection will be different.









F4-4000C14D-32GTES - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB) The Trident Z Royal Elite series is the upper echelon of DDR4 DRAM performance and design, featuring a meticulously sculpted crystalline pattern across the polished surface of the aluminum heatspreader, a patented full-length...




www.gskill.com













F4-4000C14D-32GTRS - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




www.gskill.com


----------



## ALSTER868

bscool said:


> 2x16 4400c17 Royals $280


Where do you think this memory is more capable, gear 1 or 2? What can it do potentially, is there any feedback on it?


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> Yeah you should be good then. You check it under advanced tab in bios and CPU.


What bios is this with 4C

I have microcode 40.


----------



## bscool

ALSTER868 said:


> Where do you think this memory is more capable, gear 1 or 2? What can it do potentially, is there any feedback on it?


I have the same kit in ripjaw and it can run @1.55 gear 1 3866c14-15-15. Gear 2 4533c17-17-17.

I haven't run long term memtest just short runs and daily use for gaming. It comes down to preference. I tend to run gear 2. The main game I really play is CSGO and my latency doesn't matter as much as if I could aim


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> What bios is this with 4C
> 
> I have microcode 40.


1102


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> 1102


Thank you, is this bios any better than 1007?


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> 4800 C18 G2 running okay so far. Lowered SA / IO Mem to 1.20v and vdimm to 1.5 in round two of tweaking. HCI 160% so far. Worked on primary + secondary timings only. Third can be tweaked lower potentially. Round three of tweaking will see what I can pull out of the third timings while keeping voltages. Once everything is buttoned up, I will do a full HCI test for 1k coverage.


One thing to try is enable trace centering in gear 2 with SR. It seemed like it helped me run stable at a little tighter timings than I could without. Could be a fluke. Just an idea. Try with and without. I know other don't use it and can run higher clocks than me but for me it seemed like it helped.


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> Thank you, is this bios any better than 1007?


I haven't had an issue with either. Try it and find out


----------



## Talon2016

Bakuya said:


> I get 5 chips all are sp50.


Just tried a new 11900K since my IMC on my SP83 is pretty trash. SP50, absolute garbage. Logging WHEA at 5Ghz all cores 1.375v BIOS LLC5. Going right back to the store. These things shouldn't getting i9 badge. This is worse than the very early 11700K SP76 I had. Guarantee Intel is taking all the best silicon for those new RKL Xeons.


----------



## sugi0lover

With cahce as high as 4812Mhz, Memory OC gets a lot harder,
but the result is satisfactory giving me 35.4ns latency with 32GB dual rank memory kit.
I put SA high just in case to cover every situation.
This will be my 24/7 daily setup for a while.


CPU : [email protected]
Cache : 4812Mhz
Memory OC : 3960Mhz-13-14-14-14-240-2T (1:1)
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Voltages (Bios, before optimization)
 : CPU 1.440v / RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.550v / Mem OC IO 1.420v


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> With cahce as high as 4812Mhz, Memory OC gets a lot harder,
> but the result is satisfactory giving me 35.4ns latency with 32GB dual rank memory kit.
> I put SA high just in case to cover every situation.
> This will be my 24/7 daily setup for a while.
> 
> 
> CPU : [email protected]12Mhz
> Cache : 4812Mhz
> Memory OC : 3960Mhz-13-14-14-14-245-2T (1:1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios, before optimization)
> : CPU 1.440v / RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.550v / Mem OC IO 1.420v
> 
> View attachment 2525241


----------



## murenitu

GSKILL SUPPORT said:


> When memory specifications are identical, the only difference is the physical heat spreader.
> 
> As far as the heat spreader difference, 32GTRS has an even/smooth silver/chrome mirror finish while the 32GTES is uneven/sculpted so reflection will be different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-4000C14D-32GTES - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB) The Trident Z Royal Elite series is the upper echelon of DDR4 DRAM performance and design, featuring a meticulously sculpted crystalline pattern across the polished surface of the aluminum heatspreader, a patented full-length...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [URL unfurl = "true"] https://www
> .gskill.com/product/165/299/1620978059/F4-4000C14D-32GTRS [/ URL]


So smartly it would be to buy the cheapest one, since we are talking about the same hardware with the same properties?


----------



## chibi

murenitu said:


> So smartly it would be to buy the cheapest one, since we are talking about the same hardware with the same properties?


That's my deduction from reading their response. Cheapest one would be the gold kit for me. But that colour is so tacky compared to the silver one.


----------



## Bakuya

Talon2016 said:


> Just tried a new 11900K since my IMC on my SP83 is pretty trash. SP50, absolute garbage. Logging WHEA at 5Ghz all cores 1.375v BIOS LLC5. Going right back to the store. These things shouldn't getting i9 badge. This is worse than the very early 11700K SP76 I had. Guarantee Intel is taking all the best silicon for those new RKL Xeons.


I do not have store with those cpu's, i buy from internet, snd then wery long procedure to return intel crap back, since one i return to intel directly , then buy 3 boxed snd 2 tray versions in total 6 of these are crap, two have batch v123 and 124 two v115 and two other x122
****.
Shame on intel RKL crap, i dont know if i buy another one..


----------



## sugi0lover

chibi said:


> That's my deduction from reading their response. Cheapest one would be the gold kit for me. But that colour is so tacky compared to the silver one.


That's why I bought Royal not Elite. The Spec is the same and I water-cool Ram, so heat spreader doesn't matter at all to me.


----------



## GSKILL SUPPORT

murenitu said:


> So smartly it would be to buy the cheapest one, since we are talking about the same hardware with the same properties?


Yes, if heat spreader design does not matter such as in @sugi0lover 's case


----------



## geriatricpollywog

GSKILL SUPPORT said:


> Yes, if heat spreader design does not matter such as in @sugi0lover 's case


Do you have any influence over heatspreader design? I have 4kc14 elite gold in 2x16 and I think all the fancy heatspreaders look chintsy. I’d be interested in a future DDR5 kit if the heatspreaders were plain stainless steel or copper. Or could you release a top of the line bin with no heatspreaders?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Even better, could you release a top of the lime bin with a waterblock pre installed? I would buy it.


----------



## GSKILL SUPPORT

0451 said:


> Do you have any influence over heatspreader design? I have 4kc14 elite gold in 2x16 and I think all the fancy heatspreaders look chintsy. I’d be interested in a future DDR5 kit if the heatspreaders were plain stainless steel or copper. Or could you release a top of the line bin with no heatspreaders?


Something like this? 










I'll let the appropriate team know.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

GSKILL SUPPORT said:


> Something like this?
> 
> View attachment 2525256
> 
> 
> I'll let the appropriate team know.


Are those heatspreaders removable with little clips? That’s perfect!


----------



## sugi0lover

sugi0lover said:


> With cahce as high as 4812Mhz, Memory OC gets a lot harder,
> but the result is satisfactory giving me 35.4ns latency with 32GB dual rank memory kit.
> I put SA high just in case to cover every situation.
> This will be my 24/7 daily setup for a while.
> 
> 
> CPU : [email protected]
> Cache : 4812Mhz
> Memory OC : 3960Mhz-13-14-14-14-240-2T (1:1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios, before optimization)
> : CPU 1.440v / RAM 1.610v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.550v / Mem OC IO 1.420v
> 
> View attachment 2525241


Someone asked me for CMO file for the setup.
Adjust values accordingly~





39601314_Dual Rank.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Do you have any influence over heatspreader design? I have 4kc14 elite gold in 2x16 and I think all the fancy heatspreaders look chintsy.


You could have bought RipJaws V version with basic black heatspreaders.


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover won't there be a problem with your drives or USB because of BCLK 102.40 MHz?


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover won't there be a problem with your drives or USB because of BCLK 102.40 MHz?


No problem at all. That's my daily setup and I am using it right now.


----------



## bscool

@Groove2013 Even setting certain XMP clocks(this is my 4400c17 XMP) will adjust the block and a little message pops up about it wont conflict with other things.


----------



## D-EJ915

Groove2013 said:


> You could have bought RipJaws V version with basic black heatspreaders.


yeah, ripjaws heatspreader sucks since it doesn't cover the whole chip though lol. I don't mind the old rdimm style heatspreaders myself or vengeance lpx ones.

I think these are my favourite ones: Mushkin Blackline Ridgeback 2000 MHz DDR3 8GB review After this probably the all black TridentZ which they barely sell.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> @Groove2013 Even setting certain XMP clocks(this is my 4400c17 XMP) will adjust the block and a little message pops up about it wont conflict with other things.


I simply can't have any problems, because I use PCI-E SSD and there is a separate 100 MHz frequency for PCI-E.

And I remembered that there could be potentiality problems with drives because different than 100 MHz BCLK.


----------



## shamino1978

Groove2013 said:


> I simply can't have any problems, because I use PCI-E SSD and there is a separate 100 MHz frequency for PCI-E.
> 
> And I remembered that there could be potentiality problems with drives because different than 100 MHz BCLK.


bclk oc got a bad name because platforms keep going back and forth between coupled and decoupled
since Skylake: all intel mainstream cpus bclk decoupled from pcie
intel hedt: coupled so far

amd: AM4: coupled except summit ridge's short-lived special "eclk mode 2" which can decouple bclk from pcie.

so all intel mainstream can easily use bclk without worries.


----------



## cstkl1

11900k @51|46 
Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
2x8gb @3866 13-14-14-14 1T @1.6 
SA|MCIO - 1.45|1.4


----------



## Lownage

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @51|46
> Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
> 2x8gb @3866 13-14-14-14 1T @1.6
> SA|MCIO - 1.45|1.4


did you try it with 2 x 16GB sticks?


----------



## cstkl1

Lownage said:


> did you try it with 2 x 16GB sticks?


the new set algo should work with apex on DR
sold off the DR stick


----------



## bscool

GtiJason said:


> I flashed it this afternoon on my B Bios and for some reason it has been misbehaving worse than I've ever seen. I updated ME firmware and everything first just in case but now while training DR ram I've seen it get stuck on 22, 36, F0, 68, 70, 83, A9 and B3 at least 30 times on already tested and nowhere near maxxed out mem kits + settings
> It has something to do with the flash because when I swap to bios A (1007) is says bios is updating but then it boots into Windows/UEFI still on same 1007 bios and 15.0.21.1549 ME


I had my SP50 11900k in which has the better gear 1 IMC and no issues with 1102. I put my SP 85 11900k in which has better gear 2 IMC. Now I am noticing issues with DR b die stability and booting issues like you.

My other bios is 801. Switching back to it and the SP85 works fine. So many variables but it does seem like 1102 has some issues with certain combinations.

Also with the 1102 SP50 I could run gear [email protected] with SP85 cant even boot gear [email protected] with DR b die.


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> I had my SP50 11900k in which has the better gear 1 IMC and no issues with 1102. I put my SP 85 11900k in which has better gear 2 IMC. Now I am noticing issues with DR b die stability and booting issues like you.
> 
> My other bios is 801. Switching back to it and the SP85 works fine. So many variables but it does seem like 1102 has some issues with certain combinations.
> 
> Also with the 1102 SP50 I could run gear [email protected] with SP85 cant even boot gear [email protected] with DR b die.


I have a low photoworxx score - 33 000 mpix only.. do you know what it may be ?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi Guys...
Do you know anything about Z690 and 12900K?
I think sync all cores will be in the past with this new CPU...
Are you prepared? LOL


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi Guys...
> Do you know anything about Z690 and 12900K?
> I think sync all cores will be in the past with this new CPU...
> Are you prepared? LOL


I’ll let the usual crew test the new CPU and I’ll get one after some good motherboards come out.


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> I have a low photoworxx score - 33 000 mpix only.. do you know what it may be ?


No I never could figure out what would cause it to drop sometimes. I think @Groove2013 said reflashing the bios helped him with his. It depends on memory clock and timings also. With DR in gear 2 I am close to 49,000. Gear 2 DR 43,000.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

0451 said:


> I’ll let the usual crew test the new CPU and I’ll get one after some good motherboards come out.


Well I'm suspicious when talking about MBs.... LOL
I like the Asus Maximus series...


----------



## Groove2013

Bakuya said:


> I have a low photoworxx score - 33 000 mpix only.. do you know what it may be ?


Bad BIOS flash.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @51|46
> Maximus XIII Apex - Bios 1102
> 2x8gb @3866 13-14-14-14 1T @1.6
> SA|MCIO - 1.45|1.4


What kind of FPS do you get in Warzone 1080p all low settings with that? Sugi blew me off in SOTTR (he has very close RAM OC than yours I think), I only could tie with him in HZD...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> Well I'm suspicious when talking about MBs.... LOL
> I like the Asus Maximus series...


I had a couple of those. Wasn’t impressed. I’m more of a server-grade PCB guy now.


----------



## ViTosS

0451 said:


> I had a couple of those. Wasn’t impressed. I’m more of a server-grade PCB guy now.


Only Apex/Extreme are great I think...


----------



## Groove2013

ViTosS said:


> Only Apex/Extreme are great I think...


Extreme is too expensive, because it has I think 10 layers PCB, has so many ports that one actually doesn't even need + it's 4 RAM slots.

If it still was 10 layers PCB, but with 2 RAM slots and less unneeded ports, could have been more attractive.


----------



## Bakuya

Groove2013 said:


> Bad BIOS flash.


I tried to flash from EZ dlash and usb bios flashback and diffrent versions of bios - and nothing changed - i have SR b-die 2x8 kit.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

ViTosS said:


> Only Apex/Extreme are great I think...


Extreme is good but Apex doesn’t even have a backplate. Considering the quality of parts in my build, the Apex wouldn’t really fit in.


----------



## Groove2013

So anybody here with good gear 1 results using EVGA Dark?


----------



## Bakuya

Groove2013 said:


> Bad BIOS flash.


So i try adjust secondary and tetiary timings and now 40000mpix fotoworxx


----------



## Groove2013

Bakuya said:


> So i try adjust secondary and tetiary timings and now 40000mpix fotoworxx


This is much much better.
I'm doing 43XXX MPixel/s in CPU Photoworxx.


----------



## Bakuya

Groove2013 said:


> This is much much better.
> I'm doing 43XXX MPixel/s in CPU Photoworxx.


Thanks for reply, so hot it can be?
I mean if bad bios flash i can accept 7000mpix increase but i do not flash, just adjust secondary and tetiary a little..

System feels smoother now.

But maybe i do something wron at first with such bad result.

At first i just adjust cas 14 14 28 gear 1 and 265 trfc and nothing more.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> What kind of FPS do you get in Warzone 1080p all low settings with that? Sugi blew me off in SOTTR (he has very close RAM OC than yours I think), I only could tie with him in HZD...


abit difficult to compare cause most of it was on payload before

but current plunder is 230-260 @1080p low. stock cpu
rtx 3080

havent played much cause kindda annoyed with ghub on superlight

its not saving to my onboard mem the dpi and when i switch to my gaming os. 

waiting for my pads. superlight abit off on current


----------



## cstkl1

@ViTosS 

first of all rkl actual ram speed & bandwidth > cml 

in hci a 4300c16 32gb in cml only results in 50mb/s

for 1t vs 2t
hci cant measure it. but tm5 cycles can

Gear 1 - 3866c14 2T 3min 40 sec
Gear 2 - 5066c17 1T 2min 50sec
Gear 1 - 3866c14 1T 3min 5sec
Gear 1 - 3920c13 1T 2min 54sec

x264 encode had a significant boost

need to test games where there is texture compression. 

in warzone i find 5k>3866


----------



## chibi

0451 said:


> I’ll let the usual crew test the new CPU and I’ll get one after some good motherboards come out.


I'm pretty sure Nizzen will be first to get the new CPU, lol. Can always count on him to post results!


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> So anybody here with good gear 1 results using EVGA Dark?


pic- 1.55v sa 1.45vio , trying to boot individual channels. voltage not optimized, ODT settings auto(will tune them)
be patient bro. trying to get a good cpu...








edit- this is at 5c cpu temp 😜


----------



## frantatech

Soo, finally G.Skill 5066 20-30-30-50 16GB in my country, in conversion roughly 170 USD. XMP was literally plug & play. BUT I was shocked as Thaiphoon says it´s Cjr. I hoped for Djr, but considering the price, I get what I paid for.
Anyway, I tried to play with the timings a bit, and I like the kit! The problem is, Cjr is unknown territory for me, so I am not sure how high I may go with VDIMM. What I read Cjr is more temp sensitive than Djr, not sure if it´s true. According to the Thaiphoonburner it´s 10 layer PCB, and I trust it as there is the "10" mark on the PCB, A1. I am gaming at 1440p and I like to see BIG numbers, I dont care about 3866C14 anymore and I will accommodate this kit as my daily, hope with some more tightening. I know @cstkl1 said that Shamino optimized a lot for Djr, don´t know if Cjr profits of it too, or how well is Cjr supported 🤔


----------



## YaqY

frantatech said:


> Soo, finally G.Skill 5066 20-30-30-50 16GB in my country, in conversion roughly 170 USD. XMP was literally plug & play. BUT I was shocked as Thaiphoon says it´s Cjr. I hoped for Djr, but considering the price, I get what I paid for.
> Anyway, I tried to play with the timings a bit, and I like the kit! The problem is, Cjr is unknown territory for me, so I am not sure how high I may go with VDIMM. What I read Cjr is more temp sensitive than Djr, not sure if it´s true. According to the Thaiphoonburner it´s 10 layer PCB, and I trust it as there is the "10" mark on the PCB, A1. I am gaming at 1440p and I like to see BIG numbers, I dont care about 3866C14 anymore and I will accommodate this kit as my daily, hope with some more tightening. I know @cstkl1 said that Shamino optimized a lot for Djr, don´t know if Cjr profits of it too, or how well is Cjr supported 🤔


It is djr, thaiphoon is guessing as IC isnt programmed into SPD.Check 042 code on the sticks, should end in 20D. It definitely isnt A1, A1 is very rare on consumer sticks. 100% should be A2.


----------



## frantatech

YaqY said:


> It is djr, thaiphoon is guessing as IC isnt programmed into SPD.Check 042 code on the sticks, should end in 20D. It definitely isnt A1, A1 is very rare on consumer sticks. 100% should be A2.


Wow, amazing! The code starts 043, but really ends in 20D, does it mean it is really Djr?


----------



## Jwick

i have tested 2 cpu's and the first dimm cannot clock like the second dimm can, not sure whether the channel B is stronger or is it because of the dimm variation on this dark. i have seen couple of people with the apex complain abt that. also another cpu i have tested could boot 3972 with 1.5v sa on the first dimm but i cannot seem to stabilize 3920 c13-14, but second dimm it can boot higher freq and can stabilize 3920 c13-14 with ease on the same stick. this is the same with both my cpus. i am planning to test another dark. ( all tests mentioned above are done on custom loop, with stock ripjaw heatsinks)


----------



## YaqY

frantatech said:


> Wow, amazing! The code starts 043, but really ends in 20D, does it mean it is really Djr?


Yep.


----------



## frantatech

YaqY said:


> Yep.


Wonderful, many many thanks! Let the fun begin then 😊


----------



## cstkl1

frantatech said:


> Wow, amazing! The code starts 043, but really ends in 20D, does it mean it is really Djr?


those sticks are djr. 
@GSKILL SUPPORT


also i would try if u could do 5kc19 <1.6v like adata kit that cost usd 800..


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i have tested 2 cpu's and the first dimm cannot clock like the second dimm can, not sure whether the channel B is stronger or is it because of the dimm variation on this dark. i have seen couple of people with the apex complain abt that. also another cpu i have tested could boot 3972 with 1.5v sa on the first dimm but i cannot seem to stabilize 3920 c13-14, but second dimm it can boot higher freq and can stabilize 3920 c13-14 with ease on the same stick. this is the same with both my cpus. i am planning to test another dark. ( all tests mentioned above are done on custom loop, with stock ripjaw heatsinks)


nice. can u also confirm the gear 2 bro on dr bdie with SS . luumi did 4800c19
but youngchris was benching way better latency


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> @ViTosS
> 
> first of all rkl actual ram speed & bandwidth > cml
> 
> in hci a 4300c16 32gb in cml only results in 50mb/s
> 
> for 1t vs 2t
> hci cant measure it. but tm5 cycles can
> 
> Gear 1 - 3866c14 2T 3min 40 sec
> Gear 2 - 5066c17 1T 2min 50sec
> Gear 1 - 3866c14 1T 3min 5sec
> Gear 1 - 3920c13 1T 2min 54sec
> 
> x264 encode had a significant boost
> 
> need to test games where there is texture compression.
> 
> in warzone i find 5k>3866


DR 3866C14 Rkl faster than cml DR 4533C16? Or you're only talking about SR? 

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> DR 3866C14 Rkl faster than cml DR 4533C16? Or you're only talking about SR?
> 
> Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


dr vs sr.. dr beats it in latency only
4533 dr latency and bandwidth not low/high enough.. 36.7 ns vs 42.6ns .. 63k vs 72k..

also bro depends on games.. 
but efficiency i go 4533 before but now 3866 sa/io not high..

also 1T gear 1 atm my fav until i get 5066. 
5k i cant run cache 46.


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> dr vs sr.. dr beats it in latency only
> 4533 dr latency and bandwidth not low/high enough.. 36.7 ns vs 42.6ns .. 63k vs 72k..
> 
> also bro depends on games..
> but efficiency i go 4533 before but now 3866 sa/io not high..
> 
> also 1T gear 1 atm my fav until i get 5066.
> 5k i cant run cache 46.


But 4533C16 on cml isn't 42ns but like 35ns.
I mean are you sure 3866c14 on rkl is faster than 4533c16 on cml? 

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> But 4533C16 on cml isn't 42ns but like 35ns.
> I mean are you sure 3866c14 on rkl is faster than 4533c16 on cml?
> 
> Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


u meant cml? the ram is slow in actual work turnaround.

hci coverage speed, tm5 per cycle completion shows this. 

best way i would assume is to test as ram disk.

need more testing to be sure.
also now more curious on 1T in cml.
the architecture however relies on bus side so the impact not sure how to quantify. 
hmmm


----------



## bscool

chibi said:


> I'm pretty sure Nizzen will be first to get the new CPU, lol. Can always count on him to post results!


Really? I imagine @cstkl1 locked in a dark room and is already testing z690 and is trolling us posting his z590 stability tests


----------



## skullbringer

🤔


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> @ViTosS
> 
> first of all rkl actual ram speed & bandwidth > cml
> 
> in hci a 4300c16 32gb in cml only results in 50mb/s
> 
> for 1t vs 2t
> hci cant measure it. but tm5 cycles can
> 
> Gear 1 - 3866c14 2T 3min 40 sec
> Gear 2 - 5066c17 1T 2min 50sec
> Gear 1 - 3866c14 1T 3min 5sec
> Gear 1 - 3920c13 1T 2min 54sec
> 
> x264 encode had a significant boost
> 
> need to test games where there is texture compression.
> 
> in warzone i find 5k>3866


Also 1T shows 15~20 higher gflops of Linx than 2T.
If possible, 1T is the best. But very hard.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> abit difficult to compare cause most of it was on payload before
> 
> but current plunder is 230-260 @1080p low. stock cpu
> rtx 3080
> 
> havent played much cause kindda annoyed with ghub on superlight
> 
> its not saving to my onboard mem the dpi and when i switch to my gaming os.
> 
> waiting for my pads. superlight abit off on current


That fps is like 30-50 higher than what I usually get with my current OCs...


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> That fps is like 30-50 higher than what I usually get with my current OCs...


new plunder map also heavily influence by server
was playing @1440p my settings i usually played

sometimes min 180-190.. sometimes 200-210

really difficult to gauge.


----------



## xl_digit

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102

BUG: after i updated to BIOS 1102 -> Bluetooth was broken.
Solve: CMOS clear

tested it several times on my M13A.


----------



## bigcid10

*Anyone have Asus's FTP site?*

I'm looking to see if there's a newer beta or reg bios for my strix z590-E gaming wifi
Thank you


----------



## Groove2013

Really need to delid my 11900K.
Slightly more than 12°C temp difference between best and worst cores.
If I manage to bring other cores closer to the best one + custom perfectly flat IHS + thin and even liquid metal layer and without unnecessary silicone (no reglueing = IHS minimally closer the DIE), it will help a lot not only to improve temp difference between cores, but the temp in general will improve a lot as well.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Really need to delid my 11900K.
> Slightly more than 12°C temp difference between best and worst cores.
> If I manage to bring other cores closer to the best one + custom perfectly flat IHS + thin and even liquid metal layer and without unnecessary silicone (no reglueing = IHS minimally closer the DIE), it will help a lot not only to improve temp difference between cores, but the temp in general will improve a lot as well.


Yes you should. You are going the distance. You are going for speed.


----------



## bscool

xl_digit said:


> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1102
> 
> BUG: after i updated to BIOS 1102 -> Bluetooth was broken.
> Solve: CMOS clear
> 
> tested it several times on my M13A.


I have had this happen when loading cmo file/setting from older bios version. After a few reboots it showed up from what I remember without a clear cmos But it may have changed on the latest bios.


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> new plunder map also heavily influence by server
> was playing @1440p my settings i usually played
> 
> sometimes min 180-190.. sometimes 200-210
> 
> really difficult to gauge.


Hmm I don't know this plunder map you talking about, the fps I said is based on battle royale (150 players) in Verdansk.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> nice. can u also confirm the gear 2 bro on dr bdie with SS . luumi did 4800c19
> but youngchris was benching way better latency


yea will test gear 2 for sure. but mind u i have the 4000c14 dr kit, and i have seen couple of people say it doesnt do well on gear 2. but u might have to wait for a week or 2 as i have rmaed my board, its nothing serious its just some troubleshooting led and rgb and other couple of minor issues which is a qc problem on my dark. i will be posting gear 1 water/chiller and gear 2 as well . just need to be patient. also could anyone do me a favor. my friend who owns a 10850k has residuals mismatch on 8 cores(stock jedec) in LinX v0.9.11 & Legacy (한국어, 일반 & 레거시) (linx latest libraries). he wanted to know whether the 11900k has those problems as he bases his purchasing decision around it. i couldnt test it unfortunately as i sent my board and i didnt want him to wait 2 weeks for an answer, so i thought of asking this thread for some help . (also set 8144 sizes (100 runs) stock+jedec preferably(but all of your oc should be daily stable for the most part right )
it takes a second for one test. as its in korean i have provided a translation. i am sorry for taking your time.








version 0.6.5 is the only version in english and do not use that, i have provided it just for translation purposes








download the v0.9.11 which is the latest one, which has the latest intel linpack libraries.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> yea will test gear 2 for sure. but mind u i have the 4000c14 dr kit, and i have seen couple of people say it doesnt do well on gear 2. but u might have to wait for a week or 2 as i have rmaed my board, its nothing serious its just some troubleshooting led and rgb and other couple of minor issues which is a qc problem on my dark. i will be posting gear 1 water/chiller and gear 2 as well . just need to be patient. also could anyone do me a favor. my friend who owns a 10850k has residuals mismatch on 8 cores(stock jedec) in LinX v0.9.11 & Legacy (한국어, 일반 & 레거시) (linx latest libraries). he wanted to know whether the 11900k has those problems as he bases his purchasing decision around it. i couldnt test it unfortunately as i sent my board and i didnt want him to wait 2 weeks for an answer, so i thought of asking this thread for some help . (also set 8144 sizes (100 runs) stock+jedec preferably(but all of your oc should be daily stable for the most part right )
> it takes a second for one test. as its in korean i have provided a translation. i am sorry for taking your time.
> View attachment 2525597
> 
> version 0.6.5 is the only version in english and do not use that, i have provided it just for translation purposes
> View attachment 2525598
> 
> download the v0.9.11 which is the latest one, which has the latest intel linpack libraries.


stock cpu|3866c14 1T


----------



## GtiJason

sugi0lover said:


> No problem at all. That's my daily setup and I am using it right now.


I really appreciate when guys with a good understanding of the platform and with a decent amount of experience as well share their BIOS files (.CMO , .BIN etc. ) So thank you for that
Just have a couple of questions that maybe someone here can chime in on. Obviously each brand of mainboard has a slightly different bios, most notably what the choose to reveal or hide from the end user and with that being said do so somewhat because of rules set either by Jedec, Intel or just limitations of the architecture at hand. Which brings me to the Q's at hand

1) tPPD = 0 , I thought the supported minimum and maximum delay in tCK cycles for PRE/PREALL/Precharge Power Down (PPD) to (PPD) was 4 min and 7 max ?
And more importantly isn't this used only for LPDDR4 ?

2) Legacy Mode = Enabled, Isn't this just a workaroundused when removing uCode for benchmarks like Super Pi 32m
Memory OC becomes heavily limited as a result and Initial (training) bclock will have to be 100MHz.etc






ROG Maximus XII Apex


Hi guys. Thought to make a guide for the new Maximus XII Apex to help some people have a base to work on. Disclaimers: Anything that is mentioned in this guide is meant to help you have a starting point. I am not responsible for any damages you do to your hardware by overclocking, modding, (extre...



community.hwbot.org





"Now that we touched the basics to voltages and differences vs previous generations, it's a good point to analyze another one and that's the ME patches Intel applied for the famous security holes.
With new gen, we get new patches that are tied to the bios.
These affect the performance on a lot of benchmarks (ie. spi32m) and for that we got to find a workaround.
Thankfully ASUS has figured this out already.
With MMTool you can load the .CAP bios and remove all the uCode patches.
Simply select a patch at a time, select delete patch data and hit apply.
Then save the new .cap file and flash it via bios flashback.
!It is recommended that you flash the original bios first and then the modded one via flashback.!
Personally, we keep Bios 2 for no uCode bios so we can easily switch between the two.

Removing uCode raises a new issue which is memory oc as it gets heavily limited + a couple other minor things.
Initial (training) bclock will have to be 100MHz. !In OS this is easy to adjust without issues!
If you need to train higher than 100MHz for whatever reason you can do so with OC Panel when you see 4C on the debug post.
Additionally, it will be good to set all ratios and main voltages to manual to avoid freezing issues. Consider setting internal core and ring pll’s to 0.9v in tweakers’ paradise and it is advised to avoid setting dllbwen as well.
Now, when it comes to memory oc, all you have to do is enable Legacy OC on the bottom of the memory tab and set everything as you would before.
First time it might act weird but hitting the retry will get it to work fine."


----------



## cstkl1

GtiJason said:


> I really appreciate when guys with a good understanding of the platform and with a decent amount of experience as well share their BIOS files (.CMO , .BIN etc. ) So thank you for that
> Just have a couple of questions that maybe someone here can chime in on. Obviously each brand of mainboard has a slightly different bios, most notably what the choose to reveal or hide from the end user and with that being said do so somewhat because of rules set either by Jedec, Intel or just limitations of the architecture at hand. Which brings me to the Q's at hand
> 
> 1) tPPD = 0 , I thought the supported minimum and maximum delay in tCK cycles for PRE/PREALL/Precharge Power Down (PPD) to (PPD) was 4 min and 7 max ?
> And more importantly isn't this used only for LPDDR4 ?
> 
> 2) Legacy Mode = Enabled, Isn't this just a workaroundused when removing uCode for benchmarks like Super Pi 32m
> Memory OC becomes heavily limited as a result and Initial (training) bclock will have to be 100MHz.etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG Maximus XII Apex
> 
> 
> Hi guys. Thought to make a guide for the new Maximus XII Apex to help some people have a base to work on. Disclaimers: Anything that is mentioned in this guide is meant to help you have a starting point. I am not responsible for any damages you do to your hardware by overclocking, modding, (extre...
> 
> 
> 
> community.hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Now that we touched the basics to voltages and differences vs previous generations, it's a good point to analyze another one and that's the ME patches Intel applied for the famous security holes.
> With new gen, we get new patches that are tied to the bios.
> These affect the performance on a lot of benchmarks (ie. spi32m) and for that we got to find a workaround.
> Thankfully ASUS has figured this out already.
> With MMTool you can load the .CAP bios and remove all the uCode patches.
> Simply select a patch at a time, select delete patch data and hit apply.
> Then save the new .cap file and flash it via bios flashback.
> !It is recommended that you flash the original bios first and then the modded one via flashback.!
> Personally, we keep Bios 2 for no uCode bios so we can easily switch between the two.
> 
> Removing uCode raises a new issue which is memory oc as it gets heavily limited + a couple other minor things.
> Initial (training) bclock will have to be 100MHz. !In OS this is easy to adjust without issues!
> If you need to train higher than 100MHz for whatever reason you can do so with OC Panel when you see 4C on the debug post.
> Additionally, it will be good to set all ratios and main voltages to manual to avoid freezing issues. Consider setting internal core and ring pll’s to 0.9v in tweakers’ paradise and it is advised to avoid setting dllbwen as well.
> Now, when it comes to memory oc, all you have to do is enable Legacy OC on the bottom of the memory tab and set everything as you would before.
> First time it might act weird but hitting the retry will get it to work fine."
> 
> View attachment 2525608
> 
> View attachment 2525609


ppd is either 0 or 1
txp technically has no effect when ppd is 0
but min is 4 and generally ppl use 5 because it doesnt hindder training ( tested in cml) ( rkl i dont see any effect of ppd/txp )

legacy mode.
this hmm not sure helps or not but sometimes has a pseudo effect in gear 1. gear 2 zero impact

pseudo for gear 1 cause skews/algo has more effect.

asus bios is notoriously bad in continuous tweaking. sometimes best is to reset bios. shutdown. powerdown. load profile etc.

example is deviating from auto or setting cmd 1n ( which suppose to change cmd training)

so legacy mode sometimes makes it look like it helps. no clear answer.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> stock cpu|3866c14 1T
> View attachment 2525604


thanks for testing it for me. really appreciate it bro. were the residuals matching from 1-100? also there seems to be a lot of gflops variation, it might be due to cstates enabled(as your cpu core power is idling at 1.5w) or your oc not completely stable.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> ppd is either 0 or 1
> txp technically has no effect when ppd is 0
> but min is 4 and generally ppl use 5 because it doesnt hindder training ( tested in cml) ( rkl i dont see any effect of ppd/txp )
> 
> legacy mode.
> this hmm not sure helps or not but sometimes has a pseudo effect in gear 1. gear 2 zero impact
> 
> pseudo for gear 1 cause skews/algo has more effect.
> 
> asus bios is notoriously bad in continuous tweaking. sometimes best is to reset bios. shutdown. powerdown. load profile etc.
> 
> example is deviating from auto or setting cmd 1n ( which suppose to change cmd training)
> 
> so legacy mode sometimes makes it look like it helps. no clear answer.


i have faced the same thing on the dark as well, were the dark takes ages to train certain settings after a long session without clearing cmos. after clearing cmos and loading that profile again it trains really quickly. i am not sure whether its because of mashing safe boot over and over again causing the board to just bug out.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> thanks for testing it for me. really appreciate it bro. were the residuals matching from 1-100? also there seems to be a lot of gflops variation, it might be due to cstates enabled(as your cpu core power is idling at 1.5w) or your oc not completely stable.


the variation most likely hwinfo open and the next part i stated below
the residuals were the same from 1-100. no change.

cpu stock stable as hell. also high chance its throttling at above 80c cause i think that's the default stock cpu behaviour on asus with mce on auto


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> i have faced the same thing on the dark as well, were the dark takes ages to train certain settings after a long session without clearing cmos. after clearing cmos and loading that profile again it trains really quickly. i am not sure whether its because of mashing safe boot over and over again causing the board to just bug out.


this bug was there on asus for quite sometime

one of the common one we can see is setting even switching frequency manual and then back to auto
it will still be at your manual setting.. so i normally reset bios or load optimize and reload my profile..

but on ram algos this is where all this bug comes at play more.. since alot of it is designated as auto...


----------



## Clausewitz

Are many of you guys running your CPUs delidded? I have a Der8auer delid die mate but I don't know if it's worth the risk.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Clausewitz said:


> Are many of you guys running your CPUs delidded? I have a Der8auer delid die mate but I don't know if it's worth the risk.


Unless you are thermally limited, don't bother. My CPU does 5.4 at 1.5v at under 80C load, so its not limited by thermals. For me there is no point since delidding will not stabilize 5.5 due to high CPU package power.


----------



## Bakuya

0451 said:


> Unless you are thermally limited, don't bother. My CPU does 5.4 at 1.5v at under 80C load, so its not limited by thermals. For me there is no point since delidding will not stabilize 5.5 due to high CPU package power.


Hello. what kind of cooling do u use ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Bakuya said:


> Hello. what kind of cooling do u use ?


I have water cooling.


----------



## Bakuya

0451 said:


> I have water cooling.


)))) can you describe ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Bakuya said:


> )))) can you describe ?


It’s open during construction.


----------



## musician

Guys, G.Skills with the RipjawsV heatsink, yep the heatsink sucks. For better temperatures, is advised to remove the heatsink completely and leave the sticks alone without the heatsink? Or just keep the heatsink, like better the original than naked sticks?


----------



## cstkl1

musician said:


> Guys, G.Skills with the RipjawsV heatsink, yep the heatsink sucks. For better temperatures, is advised to remove the heatsink completely and leave the sticks alone without the heatsink? Or just keep the heatsink, like better the original than naked sticks?


for SR its a pain to remove the thick pad on the unpopulated side. use contact cleaner
just waterblock it. its easier to figure out algo/skews etc when temp not a factor

2x8gb [email protected]
mcio/sa 1.4/1.4










finally. upping cache back to 46.. 45 it looses to 3920 1T..

just odd that cache 46 wont work with 5k ( insta reboot)


----------



## cstkl1

feel like jumping from a building
5066 woes..
before hci easy pass 100% but errors after
but tm5 insta reboot

now tm5 passes.. hci errors out at 3x or 8x%..

but should be on right track cause can bench 5200

some rog porn
testing these.. seems pretty quiet


----------



## Jwick

musician said:


> Guys, G.Skills with the RipjawsV heatsink, yep the heatsink sucks. For better temperatures, is advised to remove the heatsink completely and leave the sticks alone without the heatsink? Or just keep the heatsink, like better the original than naked sticks?


temp sensor on gskill sticks is on the pcb afaik so its really not a good way to know if temps are improving or not.
ripjaws<trident<naked<custom heatsink (barrow best imo)<waterblock<sub ambient , subzero on bdie is rough. i dont think bdie likes going below zero for daily (correct me if i am wrong) or it could be some bdie do well in cold some dont. not entirely sure.


----------



## Groove2013

Delidding my 11900K now.
Cut all the silicon, so it doesn't hold the IHS to PCB and now will put it into the oven.


----------



## Bakuya

Groove2013 said:


> Delidding my 11900K now.
> Cut all the silicon, so it doesn't hold the IHS to PCB and now will put it into the oven.


When put to oven, silicon melt and glue ihs again.


----------



## Groove2013

15 minutes @ 170°C.
Hope it's enough.


----------



## Groove2013

Bakuya said:


> When put to oven, silicon melt and glue ihs again.


When it's cold again, yes, but not when you just removed it from the oven.


----------



## Siablo

cstkl1 said:


> 2x8gb [email protected]


Not interesting) 2*16 current topic! [email protected], mcio\sa 1.25, 24\7


----------



## Groove2013

Siablo said:


> Not interesting) 2*16 current topic! [email protected], mcio\sa 1.25, 24\7
> View attachment 2525760


Gear 2 is not interesting.
Nice numbers, but FPS is lower in games than with gear 1.


----------



## Siablo

Groove2013 said:


> but FPS is lower in games than with gear 1


Nonsense! Here is a comparison of gear1 3733cl16 with gear2 5066cl19 in Tomb Raider. Gear2 wins).


----------



## Groove2013

Siablo said:


> Nonsense! Here is a comparison of gear1 3733cl16 with gear2 5066cl19 in Tomb Raider. Gear2 wins).
> View attachment 2525764


But 3733 CL16 is not a good comparison at all.
3866 or higher and that at CL13 or 14 is what you should compare to.

Wonder why you haven't compared 5066 CL19 to 3600 CL16 )))


----------



## Siablo

Groove2013 said:


> 3866 or higher and that at CL13 or 14


At what voltage?) 24/7? The memory controller of my processor can not be more than 3733, like most processors of the 11th generation. But it can be 2*[email protected] Is there a test of Lara Croft 2560*1440 max?


----------



## Groove2013

Siablo said:


> At what voltage?) 24/7? The memory controller of my processor can not be more than 3733, like most processors of the 11th generation. But it can be 2*[email protected] Is there a test of Lara Croft 2560*1440 max?











Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Yes, I used EZ Flash. Is that the preferred way? I'm not sure about the microcode. Yeah you should be good then. You check it under advanced tab in bios and CPU.




www.overclock.net


----------



## Groove2013

I'm doing 3960 14-15-15-15-236 gear 1.
Other guys here also 3866 MHz CL13/14 and more than 3866 MHz.


----------



## Groove2013

Finally. Had to help the IHS a little bit with the blade for it to lift from PCB.

Maybe the CPU was not close enough to heat source in the owen.

But as I felt the IHS was lifting without much efforts, I was sure the DIE wouldn't separate from the PCB.

As you can see, there is s big enough bubble/hole closer to the center. So that explains 13°C difference between the cores.


----------



## Bakuya

Siablo said:


> Not interesting) 2*16 current topic! [email protected], mcio\sa 1.25, 24\7
> View attachment 2525760


Какой кит памяти не подскажете?

У меня 4600с18, попробую на выше частоту, может дадите кмо файл?

Спасибо.


----------



## Groove2013

Removing as much solder as possible with a plastic tool that I normally use when repairing smartphones and will apply quicksilver solder remover for what's left after.


----------



## Lownage

Siablo said:


> At what voltage?) 24/7? The memory controller of my processor can not be more than 3733, like most processors of the 11th generation. But it can be 2*[email protected] Is there a test of Lara Croft 2560*1440 max?


Don´t know if this is a good run or not. But my CPU Scores are all higher than yours.
52/46 + 3866-13-14-14-15 2T Gear 1
Voltages:


----------



## Groove2013

Lownage said:


> Don´t know if this is a good run or not. But my CPU Scores are all higher than yours.
> 52/46 + 3866-13-14-14-15 2T Gear 1
> Voltages:
> View attachment 2525777
> 
> 
> View attachment 2525776


He has:
Aniso 8x
Shadows quality high
Depth of field high
Level of detail high
Space reflections average
Contact shadows average

Please, redo your test with same settings as him.


----------



## ViTosS

Groove2013 said:


> He has:
> Aniso 8x
> Shadows quality high
> Depth of field high
> Level of detail high
> Space reflections average
> Contact shadows average
> 
> Please, redo your test with same settings as him.


The ''CPU Game Average = 243fps'' is all that matters, if he runs completely on low 1080p he will have that fps. This benchmark is pretty inconsistency, with runs varying 5fps from another, so you have to run a couple times if you want to hit the best run.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> Finally. Had to help the IHS a little bit with the blade for it to lift from PCB.
> 
> Maybe the CPU was not close enough to heat source in the owen.
> 
> But as I felt the IHS was lifting without much efforts, I was sure the DIE wouldn't separate from the PCB.
> 
> As you can see, there is s big enough bubble/hole closer to the center. So that explains 13°C difference between the cores.


Checked again, closer, and where the bubble/pocket is, closer to the center of the DIE, I can see the color of the DIE itself and the color of the IHS.
So there was 0 solder and thus 0 contact, so at this spot, heat wasn't removed from the DIE, at all.


----------



## Nizzen

300fps in Tombraider benchmark in low settings, or go home 
5950x and Win 11 is the way to go in this benchmark


----------



## Siablo

Bakuya said:


> Какой кит памяти не подскажете?


*32Gb DDR4 4400MHz Crucial Ballistix MAX (BLM2K16G44C19U4B) (2x16Gb KIT)*


----------



## Bakuya

Siablo said:


> *32Gb DDR4 4400MHz Crucial Ballistix MAX (BLM2K16G44C19U4B) (2x16Gb KIT)*


Пытался ваши настройки поставить, зависакт комп, и максимум 4800 берет, можете cmo файл дать пожалуйста или настройки..

Спасибо.

А может из за того что материнка hero.

То лучше настройки наверно cmo не подойдет навереое


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> 300fps in Tombraider benchmark in low settings, or go home
> 5950x and Win 11 is the way to go in this benchmark


12900K and Win 11 will be the way to go in this benchmark.


----------



## ViTosS

IronAge said:


> 12900K and Win 11 will be the way to go in this benchmark.


Hmm with those so high latency DDR5 modules I doubt it, I saw an leak someday ago a 6400Mhz CL40 had 93ns in Aida64 latency benchmark, but the bandwidth was insane tho


----------



## Siablo

Nizzen said:


> 5950x and Win 11 is the way to go in this benchmark


We are waiting for 12900K and Win11 and close this topic)


----------



## Nizzen

Siablo said:


> We are waiting for 12900K and Win11 and close this topic)


Yes we are 
*New hw season and new fun (and frustration) 😁

PS: Can't close the thread before we compared 10900k/11900k/5950x and 12900k


----------



## IronAge

No way close thread - i want to own a Z590 Dark before i give up RKL.


----------



## Jwick

that tim application is scuffed intel. no wonder my core 3 is like 17-20c hotter than core 1 at 240 amps. but i dont got the balls to delid a 11900k. and dont know whether its even worth it at -10 to -20c liquid temp. temps will def improve delidding but i will have to use thermal paste between ihs and the die and i would need to replace it every year so i cannot reglue the custom ihs on the pcb. but is there a problem just leaving the ihs on the die without gluing? the bracket should hold the ihs in place right?


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> that tim application is scuffed intel. no wonder my core 3 is like 17-20c hotter than core 1 at 240 amps. but i dont got the balls to delid a 11900k. and dont know whether its even worth it at -10 to -20c liquid temp. temps will def improve delidding but i will have to use thermal paste between ihs and the die and i would need to replace it every year so i cannot reglue the custom ihs on the pcb. but is there a problem just leaving the ihs on the die without gluing? the bracket should hold the ihs in place right?


Don't understand why would one want to replace solder (indium) by thermal paste...

Not reglueing (no silicon) between PCB and IHS perimeter allows the DIE to be marginally closer to the inner side of the IHS = better pressure = better heat transfer.

No need to reglue.
Haven't reglued any of my CPUs since like 10 years. Socket retention bracket pressure won't allow the IHS to move, once it's in place.


----------



## Jwick

well i am going to daily the chip on cold so i cannot use lm. and the intel TIM is trash by the looks of it in that pic cause its not even contacting one portion of the die.


----------



## Siablo

PS: Can't close the thread before we compared 10900k/11900k/5950x and 12900k
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> well i am going to daily the chip on cold so i cannot use lm. and the intel TIM is trash by the looks of it in that pic cause its not even contacting one portion of the die.


Oh, in this case, sure.
No options (((


----------



## Arni90

Siablo said:


> Nonsense! Here is a comparison of gear1 3733cl16 with gear2 5066cl19 in Tomb Raider. Gear2 wins).
> View attachment 2525764


That benchmark reports incorrect numbers for CPU performance when it's GPU-limited.


----------



## Jwick

delidded with custom bartx ihs.(Not mine) i think its water cooling and lm between ihs and die


----------



## Lownage

Groove2013 said:


> He has:
> Aniso 8x
> Shadows quality high
> Depth of field high
> Level of detail high
> Space reflections average
> Contact shadows average
> 
> Please, redo your test with same settings as him.


----------



## Jwick

Jwick said:


> delidded with custom bartx ihs.(Not mine) i think its water cooling and lm between ihs and die
> View attachment 2525798


look at my temp on an optimus sig v2 with water temp 25 ish c i think. room temp 22c. 4.7 cache


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> look at my temp on an optimus sig v2 with water temp 27c. 4.7 cache
> View attachment 2525800


18°C difference between cores )))
Intel solder )))


----------



## ViTosS

Lownage said:


> View attachment 2525799


Run again in 1080p everything low/disabled, I'm pretty sure you can do way more than that, Sugi posted 279fps with RAM tweaked similary to yours.


----------



## cstkl1

Siablo said:


> Not interesting) 2*16 current topic! [email protected], mcio\sa 1.25, 24\7
> View attachment 2525760


sorry when i saw that aida and cache. i went to sleep.
lol.

anyway interesting micron single sided numbers.
so it lost to bdie and djr dr


----------



## Groove2013

After delidding, despite paste between IHS and cooler, instead of liquid metal, like it was before delidding and despite bad IHS and DIE contact/pressure, because solder layer was much thicker than liquid metal layer, difference between coldest and hottest cores is not 13°C anymore, but only 7°C.

With custom IHS that will improve contact/pressure between the DIE and IHS and between coldplate and IHS + liquid metal again between IHS and cooler, temp difference between cores might be further reduced.


----------



## IronAge

no offence but the substrate has at least 1-2 hefty scratches. 

and you would better make sure that you put a protective layer on the SMD parts under the HS.

i use APL Electrolube on the CPUs i delid.


----------



## Bakuya

So after 6 cpu my enthusiasm do not go away.
I can pick tray version of this processor again to bin.

But is it worth the hassle to pick tray, maybe they prebinned by seller, or i can find any good?

What do u think?


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> you would better make sure that you put a protective layer on the SMD parts under the HS.


I put TG Kryonaut on SMD parts under the HS. Have done like this with many CPUs - no problems so far.


----------



## Jwick

DELID / RELID Service - Intel CPUs (includes 11th GEN)


Delid / Relid service for the INTEL CPU Professionally delid your Intel CPU Clean all solder from CPU if it is a soldered type Check that CPU boots OK Optional - Benchmark Optional - Relid with our Copper IHS using TIM of your choice Using a tool we developed we are able to delid almost all...




rockitcool.myshopify.com




hmmm no oven required... that optional benchmark for 30$ is a meme lmao


----------



## IronAge

Bakuya said:


> So after 6 cpu my enthusiasm do not go away.
> I can pick tray version of this processor again to bin.


I can "donate" a SP83 11900K for 450€ when you are fed up with silicon lottery.


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> I put TG Kryonaut on SMD parts under the HS. Have done like this with many CPUs - no problems so far.


thats not really a save cover, since thermals may have an impact on it. 

TG even has a special product for protection, it is not as good as APL Electrolube but definitley better than a TIM.









Thermal Grizzly High Performance Cooling Solutions - TG Shield


Hochwertige Wärmeleitlösungen für Computerchips




www.thermal-grizzly.com


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Removing as much solder as possible with a plastic tool that I normally use when repairing smartphones and will apply quicksilver solder remover for what's left after.


u dont need to use a blade or something to remove the solder, just use quick silver and flitz


----------



## Delpize

@cstkl1 Hi Cstkl, how are you? Hope everything is fine on yor side

ı just wanted to ask.. if you do a favor for me..

You might not agree with my opinions, and probably but. I have 10850k. When i try LinX linpack i could never match residuals. This is with locked cpu at 44/43 1.35v llc 5 etc, JEDEC ram kit

Some people say residuals dont matter some people say it is. etc..And i know that also Falkentyn care about residuals.
I wonder your opinion on this. And today im gona go to my store and buy 11900k. But before this. Could you try LinX for me with below 10k size for example 8144 at bare settings like 100run. I know you did it before but i couldnt see your whole results.

It ll take 10 min max probably..

If u do that for me, that would make me so thankful for real...


----------



## cstkl1

Delpize said:


> @cstkl1 Hi Cstkl, how are you? Hope everything is fine on yor side
> 
> ı just wanted to ask.. if you do a favor for me..
> 
> You might not agree with my opinions, and probably but. I have 10850k. When i try LinX linpack i could never match residuals. This is with locked cpu at 44/43 1.35v llc 5 etc, JEDEC ram kit
> 
> Some people say residuals dont matter some people say it is. etc..And i know that also Falkentyn care about residuals.
> I wonder your opinion on this. And today im gona go to my store and buy 11900k. But before this. Could you try LinX for me with below 10k size for example 8144 at bare settings like 100run. I know you did it before but i couldnt see your whole results.
> 
> It ll take 10 min max probably..
> 
> If u do that for me, that would make me so thankful for real...


will do it after dinner.

so you want 8144, 100 runs right stock cpu. 
got it.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> will do it after dinner.
> 
> so you want 8144, 100 runs right stock cpu.
> got it.


maybe not bone stock cause adaptive vcore or asus mce might mess things ups. try a lower clock(sync all core) and a voltage which u think u can cool, that probably will be better. also cstates disable.


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> maybe not bone stock cause adaptive vcore or asus mce might mess things ups. try a lower clock(sync all core) and a voltage which u think u can cool, that probably will be better. also cstates disable.


eerrr.. ok i did it but stock cpu with oced ram... everything else as stock


----------



## cstkl1

@Delpize 

Stock 3866C14 1T, 3866C13 1T, 5000C17 1T



























residuals are the same for all 300


----------



## sugi0lover

Finally, my goal of OC with 11900K got accomplished, which is to stablize setup with latency below 35.0ns.
13-13-13 ram timing made this possible and all voltages got optimized too.
Unlike SR 16GB ram kit, I can't yet stabilize gear1 4000Mhz with DR 32GB ram kit.
However, this is better than SR 16GB 4000Mhz-CL13 setup, so I will be happy with this setup for a while.

CPU : [email protected] (SP89)
Cache : 4802Mhz
Memory OC : 3950Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T (1:1)
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.420v / RAM 1.610v / SA 1.440v / Mem OC IO 1.420v / vppddr 2.485v


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> thats not really a save cover, since thermals may have an impact on it.
> 
> TG even has a special product for protection, it is not as good as APL Electrolube but definitley better than a TIM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thermal Grizzly High Performance Cooling Solutions - TG Shield
> 
> 
> Hochwertige Wärmeleitlösungen für Computerchips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thermal-grizzly.com


TG Kryonaut has never moved or transformed on my i7-4790K and i7-5775C.

No need TG protective varnish.
With the oven and simple blade, even delid tool is not needed at all.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> u dont need to use a blade or something to remove the solder, just use quick silver and flitz


Reread my post. It says I've used quicksilver and flitz as well.


----------



## IronAge

Groove2013 said:


> TG Kryonaut has never moved or transformed on my i7-4790K and i7-5775C.


well lucky you then.

i seen a few destroyed Skylake X and haswell which have been "protected" with Shin Etsu TIM or capton tape.

thats why i would not rely on this amateur stuff, but hey if it works for you that's ok.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Reread my post. It says I've used quicksilver and flitz as well.


yea i did, u said u used a plastic tool i dont think u need to do that at all. just put a blob of quick silvers and use qtips and spread it on the solder part.


----------



## cstkl1

@sugi0lover 
thats one hell of a ram.

or u found a way like with that sr to run such low sa/mcio..

i already tired lol. chasing 5066 to pass everything.. gonna give it one more time and call it quits. its ridiculously hard. and i still dont get y [email protected], [email protected] and then for 5066.. merely 66mhz need a big bump in vdimm. so hence pretty sure i an overvolting before to pass tm5 and hci etc.

also dude. ure ss are inspiring. lol . everytime i think screw it. then get up morning some idea will pop up and will get back at it again


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, my goal of OC with 11900K got accomplished, which is to stablize setup with latency below 35.0ns.
> 13-13-13 ram timing made this possible and all voltages got optimized too.
> Unlike SR 16GB ram kit, I can't yet stabilize gear1 4000Mhz with DR 32GB ram kit.
> However, this is better than SR 16GB 4000Mhz-CL13 setup, so I will be happy with this setup for a while.
> 
> CPU : [email protected]12Mhz (SP89)
> Cache : 4802Mhz
> Memory OC : 3950Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T (1:1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.420v / RAM 1.610v / SA 1.440v / Mem OC IO 1.420v / vppddr 2.485v
> 
> View attachment 2525970


insane results btw congrats. did u bin a lot of 4000c14 kits ? also what were the odt rtt wr/nom/park set, curious. do u think it is possible to run this on stock heat sinks?


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> @sugi0lover
> thats one hell of a ram.
> 
> or u found a way like with that sr to run such low sa/mcio..
> 
> i already tired lol. chasing 5066 to pass everything.. gonna give it one more time and call it quits. its ridiculously hard. and i still dont get y [email protected], [email protected] and then for 5066.. merely 66mhz need a big bump in vdimm. so hence pretty sure i an overvolting before to pass tm5 and hci etc.


For me, mcio over 1.45v gave more errors, so I try to keep it bet. 1.35v and 1.44v.
For SA, I had the first success for the 3950 13 13 13 at 1.52v and then 1.48, 1.44 and I haven't tried to lower than 1.44v because it is low enough for me.
Bios 1102 is more stable for me than any other bios so far, low sa/io and etc.
But only 10Mhz higher than 3950, 3960 13 13 13 gave me error before 100% HCI, so I think that's it for me.



Jwick said:


> insane results btw congrats. did u bin a lot of 4000c14 kits ? also what were the odt rtt wr/nom/park set, curious. do u think it is possible to run this on stock heat sinks?


Nope. this is the only 32GB 4000c14 kits I have bought. Maybe my IMC is good because it can boot gear 1 4100Mhz CL13 as I posted here before.
odt and etc are auto. I think water cooled helps me stabilizing the setup.


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, my goal of OC with 11900K got accomplished, which is to stablize setup with latency below 35.0ns.
> 13-13-13 ram timing made this possible and all voltages got optimized too.
> Unlike SR 16GB ram kit, I can't yet stabilize gear1 4000Mhz with DR 32GB ram kit.
> However, this is better than SR 16GB 4000Mhz-CL13 setup, so I will be happy with this setup for a while.
> 
> CPU : [email protected] (SP89)
> Cache : 4802Mhz
> Memory OC : 3950Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T (1:1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.420v / RAM 1.610v / SA 1.440v / Mem OC IO 1.420v / vppddr 2.485v
> 
> View attachment 2525970


also how high can u post with 1.5v sa and loose timings on memory(DR) (with optimized skews and io etc)


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> For me, mcio over 1.45v gave more errors, so I try to keep it bet. 1.35v and 1.44v.
> For SA, I had the first success for the 3950 13 13 13 at 1.52v and then 1.48, 1.44 and I haven't tried to lower than 1.44v because it is low enough for me.
> Bios 1102 is more stable for me than any other bios so far, low sa/io and etc.
> But only 10Mhz higher than 3950, 3960 13 13 13 gave me error before 100% HCI, so I think that's it for me.


yeah. same here with that sa/io weirdness..

5066 last try this week and thats it. 
it will be 3866c13 and 5kc17..


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> also how high can u post with 1.5v sa and loose timings on memory(DR) (with optimized skews and io etc)


I don't know how to optimize skews, just auto.
Anyway I have no success booting beyond 3980Mhz. sigh... 



cstkl1 said:


> yeah. same here with that sa/io weirdness..
> 
> 5066 last try this week and thats it.
> it will be 3866c13 and 5kc17..


5066c17 is very hard. Even if I pass HCI, TM5 at 5066c17, at one point, it got unstable again. So for gear2, I used 5000c16.


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> I don't know how to optimize skews, just auto.
> Anyway I have no success booting beyond 3980Mhz. sigh...
> 
> 
> 5066c17 is very hard. Even if I pass HCI, TM5 at 5066c17, at one point, it got unstable again. So for gear2, I used 5000c16.


skews can help a lot if the auto set is bad. rtt wr for bdie should be set most of the time to 80, rtt nom and park can vary. GSAT is sensitive to odt afaik. its most of the time trial and error, change one setting and see if it improves or not. it can be frustrating due to the boot inconsistency(imc-ram training)


----------



## Jwick

also the booting method using BCLK can also be used to figure out whether the changes done to ODT were positive or negative.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> yea i did, u said u used a plastic tool i dont think u need to do that at all. just put a blob of quick silvers and use qtips and spread it on the solder part.


I did it, but just to remove the rests of solder, not for 100% of solder.

Anyways, the result is the same in the end - no scratches/damage on the DIE.


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> I don't know how to optimize skews, just auto.
> Anyway I have no success booting beyond 3980Mhz. sigh...
> 
> 
> 5066c17 is very hard. Even if I pass HCI, TM5 at 5066c17, at one point, it got unstable again. So for gear2, I used 5000c16.


also have u done "channel/stick/dimm" binning(stick exchange between dimm slots)? also have u checked the channel variation on your chip? cause i believe i could boot 3972 on channel A(dimm 1) a 1.5v sa(skews auto)(1.45v io2 not optimized btw ) and second dimm(channel B) i could boot 4060.


----------



## Groove2013

When I switch sticks between slots on my Apex 13, it can't boot anymore 3980 MHz several times in a row with high/auto timings.

So I have each of 2 sticks in a specific slot.
It helps with max stable RAM frequency in stress test, a little bit.


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> also have u done "channel/stick/dimm" binning(stick exchange between dimm slots)? also have u checked the channel variation on your chip? cause i believe i could boot 3972 on channel A(dimm 1) a 1.5v sa(skews auto)(1.45v io2 not optimized btw ) and second dimm(channel B) i could boot 4060.


Thanks a lot for good tips!
I did stick exchange between dimm slots and got the best position. I haven't checked single stick and single dimm because it's no use for me since I am going use both sticks.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> I don't know how to optimize skews, just auto.
> Anyway I have no success booting beyond 3980Mhz. sigh...


skews just running actually the default

odt i think ppl are crazy doing this without the option to adjust dqs.


----------



## Delpize

cstkl1 said:


> @Delpize
> 
> Stock 3866C14 1T, 3866C13 1T, 5000C17 1T
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> residuals are the same for all 300


What can i say....no words can describe my feelings. Thank you so much for your effort for real..These results made my doubts gone for 11900k. Because i could never get same residuals on 10850k. (Skylake...)


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> skews just running actually the default
> 
> odt i think ppl are crazy doing this without the option to adjust dqs.


well asus has that whole section called skews. dark doesnt have a lot a lot of settings to play with. the only setting worth messing with are the rtt wr, rtt nom, rtt park imo. i dont think there is a dqs setting on the dark. and i have no clue what that does or even mean


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> well asus has that whole section called skews. dark doesnt have a lot a lot of settings to play with. the only setting worth messing with are the rtt wr, rtt nom, rtt park imo. i dont think there is a dqs setting on the dark. and i have no clue what that does or even mean


x299. 

what dark and asrock is missing is the intel mrc training algos. even msi now copied asus and make them accessible.


----------



## cstkl1

Delpize said:


> What can i say....no words can describe my feelings. Thank you so much for your effort for real..These results made my doubts gone for 11900k. Because i could never get same residuals on 10850k. (Skylake...)


i guess the architecture diff at play 

rkl vcore is the same for avx/avx512 and non avx for the frequency. its only the wattage aka current is increased differenly. 
theres no inbetween semi stable states. its either yes or no

for cache its all about transient. hence y cache oc only can be done meaningfully on manual with cstate off in rkl. so ringdown disable. 

the only crashes i ever had was early days gear 1. gear 2 is super forgiving. even semistable ram is literally the word game stable. 

but cml just too many mix bags. 
maybe a delided, wced ram like @Nizzen setup solves all of it.


----------



## frantatech

cstkl1 said:


> those sticks are djr.
> @GSKILL SUPPORT
> 
> 
> also i would try if u could do 5kc19 <1.6v like adata kit that cost usd 800..


It boots 1.55-1.58 VDIMM, 5066 19-26-46, but I don´t have the skills to stabilize it 😢 Are there any APEX BIOS settings which should be enabled/disabled to help DJR? As well, are there any roughly estimated VCCIO MEM and VCCSA values for 5066 / 5333?


----------



## Bakuya

1t means N1 or N1:1 bubles??

I cant boot N1:1 even at 3200 no matter i do.


----------



## frantatech

Bakuya said:


> 1t means N1 or N1:1 bubles??
> 
> I cant boot N1:1 even at 3200 no matter i do.


1t = N1. 1t is hard in gear 1. You should be good with N2 aka 2t.


----------



## Bakuya

frantatech said:


> 1t = N1. 1t is hard in gear 1. You should be good with N2 aka 2t.


N1 no problem, N1:1 there where yroubles


----------



## cstkl1

boards are generally tuned to fit xmp

but gskill seems to bin on what asus boards can do..


frantatech said:


> It boots 1.55-1.58 VDIMM, 5066 19-26-46, but I don´t have the skills to stabilize it 😢 Are there any APEX BIOS settings which should be enabled/disabled to help DJR? As well, are there any roughly estimated VCCIO MEM and VCCSA values for 5066 / 5333?


i tried chasing dat rabbit hole for 2 months gave up.

djr on apex is just pure voltage timing. no adjustment needed on my side

sa/io i left it auto


----------



## Lownage

ViTosS said:


> Run again in 1080p everything low/disabled, I'm pretty sure you can do way more than that, Sugi posted 279fps with RAM tweaked similary to yours.


Not even close


----------



## ViTosS

Lownage said:


> Not even close
> View attachment 2525991


Weird... I can do more than that with 10900k, if you scroll back some pages you will see the result I said 279fps


----------



## sugi0lover

Finally, I am getting SP104 11900K next week.
The left side (SP108) is the highest SP I saw from the below.





Golden i9 11900K + Z590 Maximus Xiii Apex


Selling my golden i9 11900K, this was the best CPU of over 30 tested. SP of 108 as you can see from the pictures. Has been on LN2 and is able to compete for golds with the right kit of ram. SOLD shipped. https://hwbot.org/submission/4734599_obscureparadox_cinebench___r20_core_i9_11900k_8366_marks...



community.hwbot.org





The right side (SP104) is the one I am gonna get.
But the prediction numbers of SP104 is better than those of SP108.
I will let you guys know how it really performs.


----------



## jlakai

Any suggestions to try and push this a little more ?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, I am getting SP104 11900K next week.
> The left side (SP108) is the highest SP I saw from the below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Golden i9 11900K + Z590 Maximus Xiii Apex
> 
> 
> Selling my golden i9 11900K, this was the best CPU of over 30 tested. SP of 108 as you can see from the pictures. Has been on LN2 and is able to compete for golds with the right kit of ram. SOLD shipped. https://hwbot.org/submission/4734599_obscureparadox_cinebench___r20_core_i9_11900k_8366_marks...
> 
> 
> 
> community.hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right side (SP104) is the one I am gonna get.
> But the prediction numbers of SP104 is better than those of SP108.
> I will let you guys know how it really performs.
> View attachment 2526022


That predictions on SP108 I think should be better. That cooler score was only 145 pts.


----------



## GtiJason

Jwick said:


> well i am going to daily the chip on cold so i cannot use lm. and the intel TIM is trash by the looks of it in that pic cause its not even contacting one portion of the die.


LM is actually fantastic subzero. Using Under the Ice SS by Ron (runmc) tuned for approx -40C @ 350 Watt load the only other interfaces that come close (to Coolab and T.Grizz LM) have been Indigo XS LM pad and IC Diamond. Obviously all of which are not easy to use so I mostly stick with KPX or OG Kryonaut unless SS Phase for some reason is the coldest I can go with the specific hardware. Otherwise SS is just for testing cold scaling prior to Dry Ice or Lin. LM starts becoming a problem around Dry Ice temps, I've seen issues as warm as -60C in some cases, usually cpu's with higher loads. CPU's like 7700k usually work fine on dice with LM

















Spoiler: LM failure


----------



## sugi0lover

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> That predictions on SP108 I think should be better. That cooler score was only 145 pts.


I am sure SP doesn't change to temp, regardless of it being measured sub-zero or 28C. I am not sure those prediction numbers.
But I think SP and prediction numbers go together.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> I am sure SP doesn't change to temp, regardless of it being measured sub-zero or 28C. I am not sure those prediction numbers.
> But I think SP and prediction numbers go together.


SP won't change much (+-1), but the highest freqs do. That SP108 can reach similar max freqs with much lower cooler score compared to SP104. But...looking forward to your actual results


----------



## GtiJason

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, I am getting SP104 11900K next week.
> The left side (SP108) is the highest SP I saw from the below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Golden i9 11900K + Z590 Maximus Xiii Apex
> 
> 
> Selling my golden i9 11900K, this was the best CPU of over 30 tested. SP of 108 as you can see from the pictures. Has been on LN2 and is able to compete for golds with the right kit of ram. SOLD shipped. https://hwbot.org/submission/4734599_obscureparadox_cinebench___r20_core_i9_11900k_8366_marks...
> 
> 
> 
> community.hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right side (SP104) is the one I am gonna get.
> But the prediction numbers of SP104 is better than those of SP108.
> I will let you guys know how it really performs.


I thought this was going to Vince / Kingpin, I guess a lot of guys tried to buy it right away
Excited to see what you will do with it !


----------



## sugi0lover

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> SP won't change much (+-1), but the highest freqs do. That SP108 can reach similar max freqs with much lower cooler score compared to SP104. But...looking forward to your actual results


Thanks for the update!
I hope its imc is as good as SP. I am a little worried that the current owner said that he can't boot beyond 3733 saying it's his bad ram kit.
His ram kit is Ripjaws B-die 32GB(16x2) (don't know the detailed spec) and he said he used his ram at 4000Mhz on Z490 Apex + 10900K.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Lownage said:


> Not even close
> View attachment 2525991


Are you guys actually paying $40 for this dog**** game or just downloading the free demo?


----------



## IronAge

Shadow of the Tomb Raider Definitive Edition - MMOGA


Buy Shadow of the Tomb Raider - Experience Lara Croft's defining moment: In Shadow of the TR, she must master the jungle and get through her darkest hour




www.mmoga.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

IronAge said:


> Shadow of the Tomb Raider Definitive Edition - MMOGA
> 
> 
> Buy Shadow of the Tomb Raider - Experience Lara Croft's defining moment: In Shadow of the TR, she must master the jungle and get through her darkest hour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mmoga.com


Thanx! 1080p lowest at 5.45 / 4040c14 G1


----------



## Jwick

GtiJason said:


> LM is actually fantastic subzero. Using Under the Ice SS by Ron (runmc) tuned for approx -40C @ 350 Watt load the only other interfaces that come close (to Coolab and T.Grizz LM) have been Indigo XS LM pad and IC Diamond. Obviously all of which are not easy to use so I mostly stick with KPX or OG Kryonaut unless SS Phase for some reason is the coldest I can go with the specific hardware. Otherwise SS is just for testing cold scaling prior to Dry Ice or Lin. LM starts becoming a problem around Dry Ice temps, I've seen issues as warm as -60C in some cases, usually cpu's with higher loads. CPU's like 7700k usually work fine on dice with LM
> View attachment 2526065
> 
> View attachment 2526068
> 
> 
> Spoiler: LM failure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526067


i have no experience using lm at sub zero temps.
but i found this from thermal grizzly website








edit: LM loses efficiency going below 8 i think.


----------



## sugi0lover

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, my goal of OC with 11900K got accomplished, which is to stablize setup with latency below 35.0ns.
> 13-13-13 ram timing made this possible and all voltages got optimized too.
> Unlike SR 16GB ram kit, I can't yet stabilize gear1 4000Mhz with DR 32GB ram kit.
> However, this is better than SR 16GB 4000Mhz-CL13 setup, so I will be happy with this setup for a while.
> 
> CPU : [email protected] (SP89)
> Cache : 4802Mhz
> Memory OC : 3950Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T (1:1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.420v / RAM 1.610v / SA 1.440v / Mem OC IO 1.420v / vppddr 2.485v
> 
> View attachment 2525970


ran 1080P bench at the above 24/7 stable setup.









Also, I am finally working on gear1 4000-CL13 with 32G DR kit. Just 10 min of HCI. got error before 20 min... sigh~
I couldn't boot 4000Mhz without bclk oc. But it's just the beginning since I am gonna get another 11900K next week.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

What’s the top result for Ryzen in SoTR?


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> Thanx! 1080p lowest at 5.45 / 4040c14 G1
> 
> View attachment 2526082


i dont think 5.45 is stable..
edit: on every stress test.


----------



## ViTosS

0451 said:


> What’s the top result for Ryzen in SoTR?


I think this one


----------



## geriatricpollywog

ViTosS said:


> I think this one
> 
> View attachment 2526125
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526126


Is that 1080p or 720p?


----------



## ViTosS

0451 said:


> Is that 1080p or 720p?


1080p


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> i dont think 5.45 is stable..
> edit: on every stress test.


I don’t plan on playing the game and my monitor only does 100hz so I don’t plan on stabilizing.

Interestingly, it was the GPU that was causing crashes leading up to the 277fps run. I didn’t have any issues with the CPU/mem and could have benched those higher. But my Kingpin would crash if I set the core slider above +135. I can pass Port Royal at +180.


ViTosS said:


> 1080p


There is no way I can match that.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> There is no way I can match that.


Well SOTR benefits from more than 16 threads and from more than 16 MB cache.
It's not that 11900K is bad.


----------



## Ziomalkapucha

Hello. When I delided my 11700k, I lost one of SMD elements from top of PCB, left side of IHS. Someone know what is it, so that I could try solder a new?


----------



## Jwick

Ziomalkapucha said:


> Hello. When I delided my 11700k, I lost one of SMD elements from top of PCB, left side of IHS. Someone know what is it, so that I could try solder a new?


it should run afaik. i know a guy who had a broken smd but he said it works


----------



## sugi0lover

ViTosS said:


> I think this one
> 
> View attachment 2526125
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526126


My friend did the bench with his 5900x and 3800c14 and his result is not that high even at 1280 x 720 lowest setting.
Are 5950x and 5900x that different in performance, almost 20%? or is that 5950x result particularly high even among 5950xs?


----------



## ViTosS

sugi0lover said:


> My friend did the bench with his 5900x and 3800c14 and his result is not that high even at 1280 x 720 lowest setting.
> Are 5950x and 5900x that different in performance? or is that 5950x result particularly high even among 5950xs?
> 
> View attachment 2526142
> 
> View attachment 2526144


Who posted that picture was @Nizzen , the screenshot I showed you, I don't know, maybe he ran SMT disabled or something? Rebar? No idea...


----------



## Ziomalkapucha

Jwick said:


> it should run afaik. i know a guy who had a broken smd but he said it works
> View attachment 2526143


I lost exactly the same element. In my case CPU is working too. However, I would like fix it.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> My friend did the bench with his 5900x and 3800c14 and his result is not that high even at 1280 x 720 lowest setting.
> Are 5950x and 5900x that different in performance, almost 20%? or is that 5950x result particularly high even among 5950xs?
> 
> View attachment 2526142
> 
> View attachment 2526144


11900k - ATB on , MCE disabled cache ringdown auto, cache min auto, cache max 44 ( This is literally stock cpu with a bit of tweaks on cache)
2x8gb 3866C14 1T
RTX3080 Oced 2100|21










11900k - 51|46 - 3866C13 - RTX3080 Oced 2100|21










Normal Windows.

so that 5900x OCED on cpu render just competes with ATB stock 11900k with 3866 C14 1T
but when we oc our 11900k.. its bye bye 5900x


----------



## Nizzen

Old result of the worst 5900x in the world 3600mhz max lol
:


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Old result of the worst 5900x in the world 3600mhz max lol
> :


so the 5950x is oddball here.


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen
the world worst 11900k. stock
3600C14 1T



so 5900x world worst oced lost to 11900k world worst


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> the world worst 11900k. stock
> 3600C14 1T
> 
> 
> 
> so 5900x world worst lost to 11900k world worst


5900x says 263fps?


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> 5900x says 263fps?


cpu render. 

rtx 3090 vs rtx 3080 gpu render bro
thats where the avg 261 vs 241


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> cpu render.
> 
> rtx 3090 vs rtx 3080 gpu render bro
> thats where the avg 261 vs 241


Try 3090, and the fps is the same 

Noone looks at cpurender in this benchmark. What counts, is the total average 

2080ti :


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Try 3090, and the fps is the same
> 
> Noone looks at cpurender in this benchmark. What counts, is the total average
> 
> 2080ti :


gpu bound 23%
diff architecture

10900k rtx 3090 later coming up. same windows version. 

cpu vs cpu is cpu render.


----------



## ViTosS

Nizzen said:


> Try 3090, and the fps is the same
> 
> Noone looks at cpurender in this benchmark. What counts, is the total average
> 
> 2080ti :


What was the OC on that 10900k and RAM OC?


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> What was the OC on that 10900k and RAM OC?


it should be his 5.4ghz 4700c17 1T

pretty sure that old windows etc he wont get the current result. will test later with 10900k. 

last time tested 53|50 4600c17 DR it doesnt scale from 720p to 1080p beginning of the year with sotr. 
only the pirated pre RT version does


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> it should be his 5.4ghz 4700c17 1T
> 
> pretty sure that old windows etc he wont get the current result. will test later with 10900k.
> 
> last time tested 53|50 4600c17 DR it doesnt scale from 720p to 1080p beginning of the year with sotr.
> only the pirated pre RT version does


He ran 1280x720p and HIGHEST settings, curious...


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen just tested stock rtx 3080.. fps 22x
on atb 11900k.. so u sure again .. gpu doesnt matter bro..


----------



## Lownage

Since my cpu score is so bad in SOTR, I´m wondering weather its my setup or just the game being unreliable...
What are you guys getting in timespy cpu score?
5,2/46 3866-13-14-14 is ~15400 for me
















I scored 20 665 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Lownage said:


> Since my cpu score is so bad in SOTR, I´m wondering weather its my setup or just the game being unreliable...
> What are you guys getting in timespy cpu score?
> 5,2/46 3866-13-14-14 is ~15400 for me
> View attachment 2526193
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 20 665 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Not saying its stable but here's a past result.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)


----------



## cstkl1

sotr best i got was 269 52|47 3866c13 1T gpu rtx 3080 - 2160/21.5
@1080p lowest.


----------



## bscool

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Build a new rig for my dad. So grabbed that Unify-X for a try.
> View attachment 2521244
> 
> 
> Seems the unify-x was a little behind M13A, but should be OK for his daily use.


@OLDFATSHEEP where did you get the 1u bios? I cant find it online. 

Any special settings to get 3866 to work? I have a 11900k that will do 3866+ in z590 Apex but in Unify X it cant even run 3733 stable. I wonder if I got a bad MB. 

Also was your MSI boot screen just a small square in the middle verse the normal full screen? I have flashed every bios I can find and it still has the weird tiny boot screen logo. Wondering if that is normal for Unify X or mine is messed up.

Gear 2 past 4400 is tough. I can boot 4533 at times but it is hard. Gear 2 latency actually looks pretty good compared to what I can get in gear 1 on this board.

After using z590 Apex and Hero the Unify is a nightmare. Getting back to the bios after a bad mem OC is a pain. 

Also put a 10700k in and not much difference in mem OC from z490/z590 Apex. My IMC is most likely the limit as much past 4533 is tough with any 2x16 kit I have.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Thank you Gskill for sending us this new High-Speed Hynix DJR technology and moving mankind forward at a rapid rate.

My work is so much faster at 5866Mhz.









F4-5333C22D-16GTES - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-5333 CL22-32-32-52 1.60V 16GB (2x8GB) The Trident Z Royal Elite series is the upper echelon of DDR4 DRAM performance and design, featuring a meticulously sculpted crystalline pattern across the polished surface of the aluminum heatspreader, a patented full-length...




www.gskill.com





2hrs of Grizzly Bear live from the Sydney Oprah House to celebrate all of us and those shiny RAMs!


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> cpu render.
> 
> rtx 3090 vs rtx 3080 gpu render bro
> thats where the avg 261 vs 241


The benchmark reports wildly exaggerated numbers for any process that isn't the bottleneck. CPU render is completely useless if it's not the bottleneck, and it's not going to be a bottleneck unless you force your 11900K down to 2 cores without HT


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP where did you get the 1u bios? I cant find it online.
> 
> Any special settings to get 3866 to work? I have a 11900k that will do 3866+ in z590 Apex but in Unify X it cant even run 3733 stable. I wonder if I got a bad MB.
> 
> Also was your MSI boot screen just a small square in the middle verse the normal full screen? I have flashed every bios I can find and it still has the weird tiny boot screen logo. Wondering if that is normal for Unify X or mine is messed up.
> 
> Gear 2 past 4400 is tough. I can boot 4533 at times but it is hard. Gear 2 latency actually looks pretty good compared to what I can get in gear 1 on this board.
> 
> After using z590 Apex and Hero the Unify is a nightmare. Getting back to the bios after a bad mem OC is a pain.
> 
> Also put a 10700k in and not much difference in mem OC from z490/z590 Apex. My IMC is most likely the limit as much past 4533 is tough with any 2x16 kit I have.


I got that test bios from TOPPC. I can share it when I am home.

3866 works fine for me on 1U bios. Pre-1U bioses have problems with some gskill rams, so probably need to update 1U.

Yeah, that boot screen is super weird. I told TOPPC to replace it with some pure black pics but has not been done yet.

Me too have difficulties with DR bdie over 4533, so I am running DR DJR at 4600 N:1=1 now. Volts and speed are super balanced at 4600.

Unify-X uses SMT ram slots so the settings might be a bit different from M13A.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

bscool said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP where did you get the 1u bios? I cant find it online.
> 
> Any special settings to get 3866 to work? I have a 11900k that will do 3866+ in z590 Apex but in Unify X it cant even run 3733 stable. I wonder if I got a bad MB.
> 
> Also was your MSI boot screen just a small square in the middle verse the normal full screen? I have flashed every bios I can find and it still has the weird tiny boot screen logo. Wondering if that is normal for Unify X or mine is messed up.
> 
> Gear 2 past 4400 is tough. I can boot 4533 at times but it is hard. Gear 2 latency actually looks pretty good compared to what I can get in gear 1 on this board.
> 
> After using z590 Apex and Hero the Unify is a nightmare. Getting back to the bios after a bad mem OC is a pain.
> 
> Also put a 10700k in and not much difference in mem OC from z490/z590 Apex. My IMC is most likely the limit as much past 4533 is tough with any 2x16 kit I have.











E7D38IMS.A1U


A1U File



1drv.ms





Here you go. "Z590 Unify-X A.1U"


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> sotr best i got was 269 52|47 3866c13 1T gpu rtx 3080 - 2160/21.5
> @1080p lowest.


Nice... Record some gameplay in Warzone Battle Royale mode (Verdansk 150 players) if possible, see mine


----------



## WebsterRKL

You guys just game your life?

How much money do you make gaming?

Answer: We are all independently wealthy and overclocking high-end parts is our hobby. lol

OK, I get that. Wish I was wealthy.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> You guys just game your life?
> 
> How much money do you make gaming?


You just work your life?

How much money do you make working?


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> You just work your life?
> 
> How much money do you make working?


I'm just trying to figure this thread out. Overclocking for hobby? For working faster? cool.

For gaming really buying every new gen for FPS? Really? Go ahead and say it's the truth. Go ahead.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> I'm just trying to figure this thread out. Overclocking for hobby? For working faster? cool.
> 
> For gaming? ok


Personally I game very little and when I do I’m playing 20 year old games. I also don’t use computers much when I’m working.


----------



## WebsterRKL

WebsterRKL said:


> I'm just trying to figure this thread out. Overclocking for hobby? For working faster? cool.
> 
> For gaming really buying every new gen for FPS? Really? Go ahead and say it's the truth. Go ahead.





0451 said:


> Personally I game very little and when I do I’m playing 20 year old games. I also don’t use computers much when I’m working.


That's what I do man, I have Black Mesa supercharged and ready to go in the background but only a Radeon Pro WX-4100 workstation card installed.

Still, I don't understand the ultimate point of this thread? Gaming? Working? Hobby? What?


----------



## bscool

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> I got that test bios from TOPPC. I can share it when I am home.
> 
> 3866 works fine for me on 1U bios. Pre-1U bioses have problems with some gskill rams, so probably need to update 1U.
> 
> Yeah, that boot screen is super weird. I told TOPPC to replace it with some pure black pics but has not been done yet.
> 
> Me too have difficulties with DR bdie over 4533, so I am running DR DJR at 4600 N:1=1 now. Volts and speed are super balanced at 4600.
> 
> Unify-X uses SMT ram slots so the settings might be a bit different from M13A.


Thanks, saved me from returning because I thought I had a defective board because of that weird boot screen .

Going to try that new bios now. Probably end up running gear 2 but curious to try gear [email protected] higher than 3600.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Statistics?

Mankind moving forward, you guys are collecting all the cutting edge statistics. 

So you are statisticians of CPU and DDR4 overclocks. So wonderful even if you don't realize what an amazing thing you are doing.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> That's what I do man, I have Black Mesa supercharged and ready to go in the background but only a Radeon Pro WX-4100 workstation card installed.
> 
> Still, I don't understand the ultimate point of this thread? Gaming? Working? Hobby? What?


I think you do.


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> I think you do.


Tell me, in your own words.


----------



## CallMeODZ

WebsterRKL said:


> I'm just trying to figure this thread out. Overclocking for hobby? For working faster? cool.
> 
> For gaming really buying every new gen for FPS? Really? Go ahead and say it's the truth. Go ahead.


yes


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> I'm just trying to figure this thread out. Overclocking for hobby? For working faster? cool.
> 
> For gaming really buying every new gen for FPS? Really? Go ahead and say it's the truth. Go ahead.


Overclokcing for hobby? Yes!
For gaming really buying every new gen for FPS? Really? Yes!


----------



## WebsterRKL

The white elephant in the room

What are you guys all doing here? Is this buying every generation for gaming FPS?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Tell me, in your own words.


Your words are far more compelling.



WebsterRKL said:


> So I moved the truth about the 5333 Gskill kit over to the EVGA forum guys with complete and absolute honesty and they all dropped their heads into a hole in the ground like ostriches.
> 
> They all being like "brand-happy", there is no way their beloved Z590 Dark cannot do 5333 because EVGA Jacob told them that it could?
> 
> Pure Whack! 🤣
> 
> Guess What? Your Z590 Dark board cannot do it! 😂 Not Even XMP! 🤣
> 
> Don't you even think about 5866Mhz CL21 EVGA boys! 🤣


----------



## WebsterRKL

OK, It's all about gaming FPS, totally cool. You guys are the BESTEST!


----------



## rhyno

im a hardware nerd. i like overclocking and playing with all the latest and greatest hardware and software. I'm in this thread specifically for those sweet beta bioses and to see if people with much more knowlege than I post so i can learn and be more efficient in the future. but yes, alder lake soon, with a 4090, ddr5, and pcie5 m.2 and rtxio and all of it


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> Your words are far more compelling.


Even more compelling, the sad truth.  I don't think the EVGA guys are going to get their 5333Mhz for the Z590 DARK, not to mention 5600Mhz or 5866Mhz. never.

EVGA should NOT be advertising the motherboard at 5333 +, if they cannot deliver.

All they need to do is check the QVL at Gskill before they purchase the mem kit.









F4-5333C22D-16GTES - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-5333C22D-16GTES. Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-5333 CL22-32-32-52 1.60V 16GB (2x8GB).




www.gskill.com





BUT, I guess that's way too straight forward for them. So they buy the mem kit anyway and send it back RMA when it doesn't XMP with their Z590 Dark.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> Nice... Record some gameplay in Warzone Battle Royale mode (Verdansk 150 players) if possible, see mine


uninstalled. 
think had enough of that filth of a game on my comp..

come play vermintide 2 or nfs heat


----------



## Jwick

WebsterRKL said:


> Even more compelling, the sad truth.  I don't think the EVGA guys are going to get their 5333Mhz for the Z590 DARK, not to mention 5600Mhz or 5866Mhz. never.
> 
> EVGA should NOT be advertising the motherboard at 5333 +, if they cannot deliver.
> 
> All they need to do is check the QVL at Gskill before they purchase the mem kit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4-5333C22D-16GTES - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-5333C22D-16GTES. Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-5333 CL22-32-32-52 1.60V 16GB (2x8GB).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, I guess that's way too straight forward for them. So they buy the mem kit anyway and send it back RMA when it doesn't XMP with their Z590 Dark.


5333+ claims made by any mobo is very vague. it could be a different IC / cold etc.(that number is to compare between mobos of the same brand)


----------



## Bakuya

So can i enable mrc fast boot if i think i am stable? Boot times takes longer.

Thank you.


----------



## GtiJason

Lownage said:


> Since my cpu score is so bad in SOTR, I´m wondering weather its my setup or just the game being unreliable...
> What are you guys getting in timespy cpu score?
> 5,2/46 3866-13-14-14 is ~15400 for me


 15400 is right around what I get at same settings DR ram


----------



## GtiJason

WebsterRKL said:


> I'm just trying to figure this thread out. Overclocking for hobby? For working faster? cool.
> 
> For gaming really buying every new gen for FPS? Really? Go ahead and say it's the truth. Go ahead.


Overclocking for hobby and to find the ultimate limits of ddr4 performance
As for how much money I make doing this, well if I sold hardware after I was done with it I'd probably have and extra 15 - 20k in my pocket
I keep hardware for Team Cup, Country cup and close friends just getting into benchmarking for Team OCN at HWBot
My money comes from a small catering business, followed by pimping myself out to ugly fat rich women on the weekends (( I kid, or d o I)(No I do))
How about you, Graphic design, 3d flow simulation, TicTok ???


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> 200 more pages of gear 1. Please, and arriving at NOTHING!
> 
> Or at least 400more pages - no difference.


i keep two profiles atm. 
[email protected]
and [email protected]

each gear one is atb stock and another 51|46
so 4 profiles. 

5066 still a bust for consistency and no headway as to whats causing the problem. 

djr . my issue with SR is after 5200 its impossible to achieve 4,4,16 or even 4,6,16 (trdrd/tfaw) to gain advantage on turnaround from each increase in mhz. 

bdie dr. gear 2 is too difficult. gear 1 easier


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi,
I'm building a new setup and need to buy a watercooler.
I like AIO. I'm looking for a good 360mm AIO that I can define and store the fan curves into the pump circuit (based on the water temp). I don't want to run a software all the time for it.
I have a corsair 115i that I can make it via corsair link, but I don't find this model for selling anymore. The new corsair models you have to run iCue, and I don't like it.
Any idea what I could buy?


----------



## rhyno

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi,
> I'm building a new setup and need to buy a watercooler.
> I like AIO. I'm looking for a good 360mm AIO that I can define and store the fan curves into the pump circuit (based on the water temp). I don't want to run a software all the time for it.
> I have a corsair 115i that I can make it via corsair link, but I don't find this model for selling anymore. The new corsair models you have to run iCue, and I don't like it.
> Any idea what I could buy?


im using the EK aio. only needs 2 fan headers on mobo (pump and fans) and my mobo controls fans bases on my temp settins in bios so no need for software.


----------



## Jwick

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi,
> I'm building a new setup and need to buy a watercooler.
> I like AIO. I'm looking for a good 360mm AIO that I can define and store the fan curves into the pump circuit (based on the water temp). I don't want to run a software all the time for it.
> I have a corsair 115i that I can make it via corsair link, but I don't find this model for selling anymore. The new corsair models you have to run iCue, and I don't like it.
> Any idea what I could buy?


arctic liquid freezer 2


----------



## Jwick

what happened to cstkl?


----------



## Clausewitz

Oh wow 
*cstkl1 was banned?*


----------



## CallMeODZ

LMAO


----------



## musician

Clausewitz said:


> Oh wow
> *cstkl1 was banned?*


It can´t be true. Because if it´s true, like WTH? Seriously, this forum bans the most helping guy in the Intel forum? For real?


----------



## Jwick

musician said:


> It can´t be true. Because if it´s true, like WTH? Seriously, this forum bans the most helping guy in the Intel forum? For real?


true he helps a lot, i wonder why...


----------



## Nizzen

musician said:


> It can´t be true. Because if it´s true, like WTH? Seriously, this forum bans the most helping guy in the Intel forum? For real?


Maybe a moderator is an AMD fanboy?


----------



## Jwick

at least give us some context to work with mods.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Karens kept reporting him because they couldn’t handle the truth.


----------



## Arni90

musician said:


> It can´t be true. Because if it´s true, like WTH? Seriously, this forum bans the most helping guy in the Intel forum? For real?


I don't know if he's the most helpful guy here, I remember he claimed gear 2 > gear 1 for gaming if you used DJR in this thread
I tested SR DJR at 5333 vs DR B-die at 3866 gear 1 and found gear 1 to perform better.

He also ended up blocking me at some point because I pointed out that an overclocked 10900K outperforms an 11900K in some games.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> 5333+ claims made by any mobo is very vague. it could be a different IC / cold etc.(that number is to compare between mobos of the same brand)


----------



## musician

Arni90 said:


> I don't know if he's the most helpful guy here, I remember he claimed gear 2 > gear 1 for gaming if you used DJR in this thread
> I tested SR DJR at 5333 vs DR B-die at 3866 gear 1 and found gear 1 to perform better.
> 
> He also ended up blocking me at some point because I pointed out that an overclocked 10900K outperforms an 11900K in some games.


Yes sometimes he was rough, but overall, he is very helpful. And later he admitted 10900K outperforms an 11900K in some games. 
BTW I ended up with gear2 and 5333 DJR. Because at my resolution (1440p) both gears are good, but I like to see BIG numbers


----------



## D-EJ915

That guy jumped from talking to flaming people in 2 seconds in some threads before, if they got banned that's probably why.


----------



## sugi0lover

11900K 5.5Ghz + Cache 4.5Ghz + Ram OC 5000 CL 16
- single thread score : 745









- the rumored 12th gen single thread score : 825
















Intel Core i9-12900K allegedly scores 27% higher than Ryzen 9 5950X in CPU-Z single-thread benchmark - VideoCardz.com


Intel Core i9-12900K scores 825 points in CPU-Z built-in benchmark As we approach the Intel Innovation event where the company is expected to unveil its 12th Gen Core CPUs codenamed Alder Lake-S, more and more leaks are beginning to surface. Just yesterday we had a SiSoftware Sandra leak...




videocardz.com





I hope it's true


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> 11900K 5.5Ghz + Cache 4.5Ghz + Ram OC 5000 CL 16
> - single thread score : 750
> View attachment 2526442
> 
> 
> - the rumored 12th gen single thread score : 825
> View attachment 2526443
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K allegedly scores 27% higher than Ryzen 9 5950X in CPU-Z single-thread benchmark - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K scores 825 points in CPU-Z built-in benchmark As we approach the Intel Innovation event where the company is expected to unveil its 12th Gen Core CPUs codenamed Alder Lake-S, more and more leaks are beginning to surface. Just yesterday we had a SiSoftware Sandra leak...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's true


Nice, is that your new SP105?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Here is my best result on ambient water with bios-only OC.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Nice, is that your new SP105?


Nope. As you may see from the bios version and my ram clock, it was a couple of months ago.
I don't have that 16GB ram anymore.
At that time, I just wanted to see 5.5Ghz score and I think I can go higher at room temp.
I will test it tonight to compare with SP104 later.

This is also my old record to see how 5.5Ghz with AVX-512 at 1.500v scored.


----------



## Bakuya

Hey somebody know if M13H daisy chain or T topology, thanks.


----------



## Jwick

Bakuya said:


> Hey somebody know if M13H daisy chain or T topology, thanks.


all z490 and z590 afaik are daisy chain.


----------



## IronAge

D-EJ915 said:


> That guy jumped from talking to flaming people in 2 seconds in some threads before, if they got banned that's probably why.


vote for unban @cstkl1, he helped a lot keeping this thread alive, so i hope it is only a temp ban.


----------



## ScomComputers

Hello, what is the maximum safe vcore for a 11700K overclocking 24/7?
It is in MSI board,but the vcc-sense is about 0.010V lower according to the readout than the socket sense,5.2Ghz/1.450v(overide-llc3) vcc sense is it still good ?
Correction, there are four cores on 51 and four cores on 52,these are game stable settings,BF5,etc,etc.
I can even cool this with a 360 aio!
Thank you!


----------



## Nizzen

ScomComputers said:


> Hello, what is the maximum safe vcore for a 11700K overclocking 24/7?
> It is in MSI board,but the vcc-sense is about 0.010V lower according to the readout than the socket sense,5.2Ghz/1.450v(overide-llc3) vcc sense is it still good ?
> Correction, there are four cores on 51 and four cores on 52,these are game stable settings,BF5,etc,etc.
> I can even cool this with a 360 aio!
> Thank you!


Max "safe" is what you are able to cool 
I'm running 1.42v (actual) All core oc on 11900k. Custom water.


----------



## Jwick

Nizzen said:


> Max "safe" is what you are able to cool
> I'm running 1.42v (actual) All core oc on 11900k. Custom water.


1.42v die sense? no way u can cool that without delid or sub ambient cooling. i think most people aren't on the same page when it comes to "STABLE OC" and voltages in general. just want to clear things out. my voltages and stability is actual stability meaning any stress test in the world should be stable forever(this is REAL STABILITY). (also no residual mismatches or gflop variation above 2-3g in windows and 1g on linux)


----------



## RobertoSampaio

ScomComputers said:


> Hello, what is the maximum safe vcore for a 11700K overclocking 24/7?
> It is in MSI board,but the vcc-sense is about 0.010V lower according to the readout than the socket sense,5.2Ghz/1.450v(overide-llc3) vcc sense is it still good ?
> Correction, there are four cores on 51 and four cores on 52,these are game stable settings,BF5,etc,etc.
> I can even cool this with a 360 aio!
> Thank you!


Are you talking about maximum Vcore at light loads or at full load?


----------



## ScomComputers

Thank you very much for your answers!
It's only light load,but I wrote this also in games....with a CB23 or a Prime95 I couldn't cool it with a 360 aio... 
My point is,that way set to 1.45V (vccsense) can stay on 24/7!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I have 1.5v at light loads and 1.25V at heavy loads with an 280mm AIO...
Full load 240W


----------



## ScomComputers

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have 1.5v at light loads and 1.25V at heavy loads with an 280mm AIO...
> Full load 240W


Thanks, and I understand, but my MSI motherboard with LLC3 gives 1.450V at low and high load, according to hwinfo, it drops down to 1.440V at most...it's all on the vcc sense sensor which is not the same as the die sense!
Edit :
One more question: do I need to adjust the VCCSA and VCCIO to this (5.1/5.2) clock or can I leave it basic ?


----------



## Jwick

LLC 6/5 should be the best i think for MSI in terms of transients.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> 1.42v die sense? no way u can cool that without delid or sub ambient cooling. i think most people aren't on the same page when it comes to "STABLE OC" and voltages in general. just want to clear things out. my voltages and stability is actual stability meaning any stress test in the world should be stable forever(this is REAL STABILITY). (also no residual mismatches or gflop variation above 2-3g in windows and 1g on linux)


Playing games only on that computer. I don't play prime 95 or linX 
No problem with Cinebench r20/r23, so I guess it's cooling good enough. It's pretty easy to cool the big die on RocketLake


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Nizzen said:


> Playing games only on that computer. I don't play prime 95 or linX


They are more fun than Tomb Raider.


----------



## Jwick

Nizzen said:


> Playing games only on that computer. I don't play prime 95 or linX
> No problem with Cinebench r20/r23, so I guess it's cooling good enough. It's pretty easy to cool the big die on RocketLake


playing linx latest library is a pain on 10th gen . thinking abt it now, i dont think my cpu has ever felt light loads.


----------



## Jwick

__





Silicon Lottery - Overclocked Intel & AMD Ryzen CPUs


Binned Intel and AMD CPUs available at Silicon Lottery! The CPUs we sell are thoroughly tested for their maximum overclocking potential, so you know exactly what you're getting.




siliconlottery.com




silicon lottery closing


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silicon Lottery - Overclocked Intel & AMD Ryzen CPUs
> 
> 
> Binned Intel and AMD CPUs available at Silicon Lottery! The CPUs we sell are thoroughly tested for their maximum overclocking potential, so you know exactly what you're getting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconlottery.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> silicon lottery closing


Buying cpu's Day 1, is the enough binning


----------



## yahfz

Anybody having PCI/PCIe Bus WHEAs with the latest 1102 bios?


----------



## ScomComputers

Hello, can someone please answer this, thank you very much:
"_One more question: do I need to adjust the VCCSA and VCCIO to this (5.1/5.2) clock or can I leave it basic ?_ "


----------



## Jwick

ScomComputers said:


> Hello, can someone please answer this, thank you very much:
> "_One more question: do I need to adjust the VCCSA and VCCIO to this (5.1/5.2) clock or can I leave it basic ?_ "


VCCIO on rkl does not need to be changed at all. maybe u can bump VCCIO a bit for stability but for the most part it doesnt do anything for overclocking. VCCSA is the imc voltage and this is responsible for mem freq, same goes with VCCIO 2. it is recommended to manually dial vccio 2/vccio/vccsa because of auto bombs, jedec is fine on auto but xmp or any overclock its best to manually set it. safe limits for rkl will be below 1.5v SA , 1.45v IO 2, IO 1.05/1.1v. ( VCCIO 2 IS ALSO CALLED VCCIO MEM OR VCCIO AUX)


----------



## centvalny

Testing ram


----------



## ScomComputers

Jwick said:


> VCCIO on rkl does not need to be changed at all. maybe u can bump VCCIO a bit for stability but for the most part it doesnt do anything for overclocking. VCCSA is the imc voltage and this is responsible for mem freq, same goes with VCCIO 2. it is recommended to manually dial vccio 2/vccio/vccsa because of auto bombs, jedec is fine on auto but xmp or any overclock its best to manually set it. safe limits for rkl will be below 1.5v SA , 1.45v IO 2, IO 1.05/1.1v. ( VCCIO 2 IS ALSO CALLED VCCIO MEM OR VCCIO AUX)


Thank you, I will do so ! 
👍


----------



## geriatricpollywog

@Groove2013 how are your results after delidding?


----------



## Jwick

@Groove2013 ya i wanted to ask you whether memory oc improved or not. maybe the imc could clock better or something?


----------



## IronAge

His CPU has probably gone rest in pieces, no more posts for 5 days and he has been online here.


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> @Groove2013 how are your results after delidding?





IronAge said:


> His CPU has probably gone rest in pieces, no more posts for 5 days and he has been online here.











Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


5950x and Win 11 is the way to go in this benchmark We are waiting for 12900K and Win11 and close this topic)




www.overclock.net


----------



## Groove2013

Waiting for custom perfectly flat and thicker nickel plated IHS.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Groove2013 said:


> Waiting for custom perfectly flat and thicker nickel plated IHS.


cant you direct die with the noctua? or do the caps on the board get in the way

edit: also ud prob be the best person to ask. u ever tried the D15 with 2x 12x25's ???


----------



## Groove2013

CallMeODZ said:


> cant you direct die with the noctua? or do the caps on the board get in the way
> 
> edit: also ud prob be the best person to ask. u ever tried the D15 with 2x 12x25's ???


No direct DIE, because any DIE is always convex and Noctua coolers also have a convex coldplate.
I might crack the DIE + no good contact/pressure for the whole DIE/coldplate.
It would require me to sand down the DIE and cooler coldplate + the caps of CPU PCB are in the way, because of how low the DIE is.

Waiting Q2 2022 for new Noctua cooler with more and larger fins + 1 heatpipe more + new 140 mm Noctua fans that are more powerful while being quieter + asymmetrical design by default, for more space from the GPU, unlike now, where only NH-D15*S* is asymmetrical, but standard NH-D15 isn't.


----------



## Groove2013

Will buy 4000 CL14 kit in maybe 7 days.

I won't go higher than 5.0 GHz and thus much lower voltage, power draw and temp.

But instead will OC RAM as much as possible, since it's much much easier to cool and doesn't draw nearly as much power as the CPU.

Really no need to pump so much higher voltage for just 100-200 MHz more that give you almost no FPS difference, but require much higher voltage, resulting in much shorter life expectancy (if you tend to keep same system for many years) and require a much much better cooling that costs as much as the CPU itself, if not more, for these additional 100-200 MHz + it can always fail, since a pump is a pump, no matter how expensive it is and needs maintenance from time to time.

So I will try to stay on air, while having virtually the same FPS in games, much cheaper build overall and also 0 worries/maintenance.


----------



## Groove2013

Most of guys one can see here, have coolers that cost more than their CPU and most of them don't worry about voltage, not so much because of their coolers, but because they want to see nice numbers and will upgrade to another system in 1 max 2 years, before the CPU has degraded running at such voltage/amperage.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Most of guys one can see here, have coolers that cost more than their CPU and most of them don't worry about voltage, not so much because of their coolers, but because they want to see nice numbers and will upgrade to another system in 1 max 2 years, before the CPU has degraded running at such voltage/amperage.


It makes sense to spend more on cooling than the CPU because the pumps, radiators , fittings and fans will last through many builds and can be used to cool both the GPU and CPU (and RAM if you’re a crazy person).


----------



## RobertoSampaio

OCing is changing...
The idea of +100 or 200 MHz at full load is not really going to reflect in games
I think OCing is now the game... That feeling of being stable 100MHz more. Only that...
My system is running 51x at full load (and it could be 50x or 49x - the FPS is the same).
The fun for me is hitting high frequencies with light load... This is my game...
About degradation,1500mv voltage will not damage your CPU. The power will !!!


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> It makes sense to spend more on cooling than the CPU because the pumps, radiators , fittings and fans will last through many builds.


It doesn't, if you don't go for the last 100-200 MHz. And if you don't, you won't push close to 1.4 V or even higher and thus won't need such monstrous and expensive cooling.


----------



## Groove2013

RobertoSampaio said:


> About degradation,1500mv voltage will not damage your CPU. The power will !!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526880


That's why I was talking rather about amperage.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> It doesn't, if you don't go for the last 100-200 MHz. And if you don't, you won't push close to 1.4 V or even higher and thus won't need such monstrous and expensive cooling.


Cooling is mainly for the GPU where running below 40C can mean 10% higher clock speeds. For the CPU it’s more about bragging rights. Then again, delidding is too.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Groove2013 said:


> That's why I was talking rather about amperage.


I don't like to stress the CPU with prime 95 or any other "CPU killer" software...
It makes no sense to me. The only thing this software proves is that its cooler is capable of dissipating 300W...
It's easy to sync all cores at 52x and run a stress test if you have a BIG cooler system... And that's not a guarantee of stability...

But it's not easy to run "by core" and make all cores hit 55x at light loads...


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> For the CPU it’s more about bragging rights. Then again, delidding is too.


If delidding can drop temp by 10-12°C and allow to stay on air, it has nothing to do with bragging.


----------



## Groove2013

Btw, delidding wasn't difficult at all.
Just required some info/preparation and attention/concentration.


----------



## sugi0lover

Are you guys moving to 12900K when it's out?
I am. My new SP104 11900K will arrive tomorrow, so I think I have 1~2 more months to play with 11900K.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442494254232702978

















Intel Core 12000: Benchmark-Ergebnisse zu i9-, i7- und i5-CPUs geleakt


Bei CPU-Monkey sind Leistungswerte zu sechs Alder-Lake-CPUs aufgetaucht. Vor allem bei der Single-Core-Performance sollen diese zulegen können.




www.pcgameshardware.de


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What do you think about this?









274.54US $ 5% OFF|Bykski Granzon Gpu Aio Cooler Kit For Rtx 3080 3090 Video Card Mod Vga Pc Water Cooling Smart Speed Control Pwm Pump Gzgpu-m240n - Fans & Cooling - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## CallMeODZ

sugi0lover said:


> Are you guys moving to 12900K when it's out?
> I am. My new SP104 11900K will arrive tomorrow, so I think I have 1~2 more months to play with 11900K.


depends on windows, and how many conflicts the new windows and games cause




Groove2013 said:


> No direct DIE, because any DIE is always convex and Noctua coolers also have a convex coldplate.
> I might crack the DIE + no good contact/pressure for the whole DIE/coldplate.
> It would require me to sand down the DIE and cooler coldplate + the caps of CPU PCB are in the way, because of how low the DIE is.
> 
> Waiting Q2 2022 for new Noctua cooler with more and larger fins + 1 heatpipe more + new 140 mm Noctua fans that are more powerful while being quieter + asymmetrical design by default, for more space from the GPU, unlike now, where only NH-D15*S* is asymmetrical, but standard NH-D15 isn't.


ah right i didnt realise both were convex. the die themselves are pretty robust. my 10700k die took a beating


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Are you guys moving to 12900K when it's out?
> I am. My new SP104 11900K will arrive tomorrow, so I think I have 1~2 more months to play with 11900K.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442494254232702978
> 
> View attachment 2526885
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core 12000: Benchmark-Ergebnisse zu i9-, i7- und i5-CPUs geleakt
> 
> 
> Bei CPU-Monkey sind Leistungswerte zu sechs Alder-Lake-CPUs aufgetaucht. Vor allem bei der Single-Core-Performance sollen diese zulegen können.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pcgameshardware.de


Probably not. I just dialed in the 11900K. My monitor only does 100hz so I’m way GPU limited even with a 3090 Kingpin on water.


----------



## Jwick

direct die frame for 11th gen. optimus sig v2 block is designed for direct die in mind as well. so i will be going direct die most prob with a chiller. sent the cpu to rockit to delid already. wish me luck


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> Are you guys moving to 12900K when it's out?
> I am. My new SP104 11900K will arrive tomorrow, so I think I have 1~2 more months to play with 11900K.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442494254232702978
> 
> View attachment 2526885
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core 12000: Benchmark-Ergebnisse zu i9-, i7- und i5-CPUs geleakt
> 
> 
> Bei CPU-Monkey sind Leistungswerte zu sechs Alder-Lake-CPUs aufgetaucht. Vor allem bei der Single-Core-Performance sollen diese zulegen können.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pcgameshardware.de


stock meaning 5.3 boost? then there is no much diff between 11900k.(70 points diff)


----------



## Jwick

RobertoSampaio said:


> I don't like to stress the CPU with prime 95 or any other "CPU killer" software...
> It makes no sense to me. The only thing this software proves is that its cooler is capable of dissipating 300W...
> It's easy to sync all cores at 52x and run a stress test if you have a BIG cooler system... And that's not a guarantee of stability...
> 
> But it's not easy to run "by core" and make all cores hit 55x at light loads...


no, u need to test the cpu to its MAX. then only u are guaranteed stability. linpack is an intel benchmark/stress test. it tests pretty much every instruction on the cpu heavy. i dont get why people dont stress test using software's like this. i think most people ae afraid that it will kill the cpu. its not gonna kill anything. if your current is under 245amps(intel spec) and temp under 100c u are fine, its still a spec u can push higher, and u wont be running linpack daily for 2 years, its only couple of hrs.
95% of the people are not STABLE. they are meme stable. but i mean its your cpu u can do whatever u want with it. people underestimate silicon. it can take a beating especially 14nm+++++++++. i see people say "i run 5.4g daily" u are never stable 5.4g (on normal cooling setup). maybe direct die on a good chip on water u might be able to do 5.4 ht off(maybe) . booting into windows and your game doesnt crash doesnt make your chip fully stable(rkl game stability exist). but please mention " i run 5.4g game stable OC".


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> stock meaning 5.3 boost? then there is no much diff between 11900k.(70 points diff)


Even if the difference is small, I want the best. OCing the new stuff is also fun for me.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> no, u need to test the cpu to its MAX. then only u are guaranteed stability. linpack is an intel benchmark/stress test. it tests pretty much every instruction on the cpu heavy. i dont get why people dont stress test using software's like this. i think most people ae afraid that it will kill the cpu. its not gonna kill anything. if your current is under 245amps(intel spec) and temp under 100c u are fine, its still a spec u can push higher, and u wont be running linpack daily for 2 years, its only couple of hrs.
> 95% of the people are not STABLE. they are meme stable. but i mean its your cpu u can do whatever u want with it. people underestimate silicon. it can take a beating especially 14nm+++++++++. i see people say "i run 5.4g daily" u are never stable 5.4g (on normal cooling setup). maybe direct die on a good chip on water u might be able to do 5.4 ht off(maybe) . booting into windows and your game doesnt crash doesnt make your chip fully stable(rkl game stability exist). but please mention " i run 5.4g game stable OC".


Yes, lets put 300+ watts through our cpus and down-clock them heavily to run this stable in Linpack. Or you know you could run lighter workloads like large dataset workloads (with overclocked memory) with avx2 which is more reasonable and lets you clock the cpu higher. Results in more performance in games which won't ever stress the cpu as hard as Linpack in terms of current/power. Take time testing memory stability with multiple programs, Linpack is just stupid for most use cases...


----------



## Jwick

YaqY said:


> Yes, lets put 300+ watts through our cpus and down-clock them heavily to run this stable in Linpack. Or you know you could run lighter workloads like large dataset workloads (with overclocked memory) with avx2 which is more reasonable and lets you clock the cpu higher. Results in more performance in games which won't ever stress the cpu as hard as Linpack in terms of current/power. Take time testing memory stability with multiple programs, Linpack is just stupid for most use cases...


stability on linpack isnt just to pass. u need residuals to be matching and the glop variation should not be more than 3g in windows and 1g in linux(use latest intel mkl library). if your throttling u will have a lot of glops variation which in my book u are not stable and and u lose the point of running linpack. large avx 2 occt is what i see many people recommend, for rkl it should be fine if u are looking for game stable oc, but for skylake 6+ cores (especially cml) u are not guaranteed stable even in games if u just run avx 2 occt large(heavy avx games like bf5 and Minecraft with mods and other stuff, there is a chance for crashes/stutters)
but i am trying to say is mention whether your cpu is game stable or actual stable when u post stuff. also linpack is really good at finding certain errors on memory.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> stability on linpack isnt just to pass. u need residuals to be matching and the glop variation should not be more than 3g in windows and 1g in linux(use latest intel mkl library). if your throttling u will have a lot of glops variation which in my book u are not stable and and u lose the point of running linpack. large avx 2 occt is what i see many people recommend, for rkl it should be fine if u are looking for game stable oc, but for skylake 6+ cores (especially cml) u are not guaranteed stable even in games if u just run avx 2 occt large(heavy avx games like bf5 and Minecraft with mods and other stuff, there is a chance for crashes/stutters)
> but i am trying to say is mention whether your cpu is game stable or actual stable when u post stuff. also linpack is really good at finding certain errors on memory.


Dude I have a 10700k and 10900k both pass occt large variable extreme with memory overclocks and don’t crash in games. Memory I spend more time with gsat, Karhu and tm5, but with occt I can tune vcore sa and io well. No crashes in COD warzone etc… not everyone has exotic cooling solutions


----------



## Groove2013

Yeah, let's look for stability in stuff we don't even use, thus let's spend money on cooling we don't need, just because of such program(s) and let's put voltage that otherwise wouldn't have been necessary.

If your build is working fine in what you do, then it's stable in what you do and that's what metters.

I don't care if it's not stable in stuff I don't even use.

It's like you buy a normal car and it's perfectly fine for your needs and then you have a guy that will tell you it isn't unless it can withstand multiple Nürburg Ring laps, so you need to change brakes, disks, cooling, suspension etc.

It's just stupid.

If I'm using it to drive from point A to B and it does the job no problem for years, I don't care it won't survive Nürburg Ring laps, since I won't go there anyways.


----------



## Jwick

so the car example isnt a great one. break pads, tires, suspension and stuff, these need to be maintained on any car, even a super car if u are doing laps. but no car should have an engine, transmission failure etc just by doing couple of laps in nurburg ring. and yaq have u played every game in the world ? so the games u play and the experience u have in overclocking manages u to have a "stable" OC but still u are not guaranteed that "EVERY" game will run without problems because u arent completely stable(cause u open linpack and u fail so). i do know that linpack is an extreme stability test, it pushes current which no games will ever do. but STABLE means every test in the world the cpu should survive, there is no in between for complete stability. game stability is variable depending on the games u play etc. but u can still cool 10900k/11900k in linpack using an aio, u will have to lower voltage and reduce clocks for it to be stable but its still possible but that choice is upto, whether u want to compromise complete stability for extra 200-300mhz. i am not saying u need to be fully stable i am saying that 95% of the people arnt STABLE(people get triggered by this) and they say that their overclock is stable, i am trying to tell people mention whether your overclock is game stable or actual stable. also the reason why i mentioned cml being broken is because i have used it and pushed it to its limit(sp110) and it starts breaking(whea, usb disconnects in linux and sometimes to get in bootable linpack i need to remove my mouse otherwise it says device not ready for some reason even tho 2018 linpack default problem size which uses 4g mem is 100 runs stable, but at that time i didnt know abt the latest libraries etc which might have shown it as unstable(but issues like this should not happen even tho it might not be stable). also i did not know at that time that clocks that high will break the architecture, i was running 5.6 ht off 5.4 cache jedec. then after bit of research i found out that linpack at lower sizes residuals mismatches at stock but the 11900k matches residuals. yes i should have dropped clocks to reasonable lvl but i had a binned chip with very strong cooling so ya. also i had other problems with z490 mobo etc. again this is my experience, and i had gone chiller on 11900k and didnt face issues like this and no whea ever. i am not trying to argue or anything i just want people to be more clearer what they mean by stable.


----------



## Jwick

again want to make things clear. its your hardware u can do whatever u want to do. just be more clear what u mean by stability.
thats all 
is everything clear?


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> so the car example isnt a great one. break pads, tires, suspension and stuff, these need to be maintained on any car, even a super car if u are doing laps. but no car should have an engine, transmission failure etc just by doing couple of laps in nurburg ring. and yaq have u played every game in the world ? so the games u play and the experience u have in overclocking manages u to have a "stable" OC but still u are not guaranteed that "EVERY" game will run without problems because u arent completely stable(cause u open linpack and u fail so). i do know that linpack is an extreme stability test, it pushes current which no games will ever do. but STABLE means every test in the world the cpu should survive, there is no in between for complete stability. game stability is variable depending on the games u play etc. but u can still cool 10900k/11900k in linpack using an aio, u will have to lower voltage and reduce clocks for it to be stable but its still possible but that choice is upto, whether u want to compromise complete stability for extra 200-300mhz. i am not saying u need to be fully stable i am saying that 95% of the people arnt STABLE(people get triggered by this) and they say that their overclock is stable, i am trying to tell people mention whether your overclock is game stable or actual stable. also the reason why i mentioned cml being broken is because i have used it and pushed it to its limit(sp110) and it starts breaking(whea, usb disconnects in linux and sometimes to get in bootable linpack i need to remove my mouse otherwise it says device not ready for some reason even tho 2018 linpack default problem size which uses 4g mem is 100 runs stable, but at that time i didnt know abt the latest libraries etc which might have shown it as unstable(but issues like this should not happen even tho it might not be stable). also i did not know at that time that clocks that high will break the architecture, i was running 5.6 ht off 5.4 cache jedec. then after bit of research i found out that linpack at lower sizes residuals mismatches at stock but the 11900k doesnt do it. yes i should have dropped clocks to reasonable lvl but i had a binned chip with very strong cooling so ya. also i had other problems with z490 mobo etc. again this is my experience, and i had gone chiller on 11900k and didnt face issues like this and no whea ever. i am not trying to argue or anything i just want people to be more clearer what they mean by stable.


Your a joke dude, no point trying to explain anything to you it’s like talking to a brick wall. Ps I don’t play every game but I’d consider battlefield and cod some of the toughest to run CPU wise…


----------



## Arni90

YaqY said:


> Yes, lets put 300+ watts through our cpus and down-clock them heavily to run this stable in Linpack. Or you know you could run lighter workloads like large dataset workloads (with overclocked memory) with avx2 which is more reasonable and lets you clock the cpu higher. Results in more performance in games which won't ever stress the cpu as hard as Linpack in terms of current/power. Take time testing memory stability with multiple programs, Linpack is just stupid for most use cases...


Tuning an OC that passes Linpack, while also hitting 5.3 GHz in games isn't difficult, you just need to use OC TVB.

While OCCT Large AVX2 is a decent stress test for Rocket Lake (the AVX512 variant isn't), there's a very good chance of the same overclock failing in more strenuous workloads like HEVC-encoding.


----------



## Groove2013

Again - no point in testing for stability in scenarios you won't face anyways.


----------



## YaqY

Arni90 said:


> Tuning an OC that passes Linpack, while also hitting 5.3 GHz in games isn't difficult, you just need to use OC TVB.
> 
> While OCCT Large AVX2 is a decent stress test for Rocket Lake (the AVX512 variant isn't), there's a very good chance of the same overclock failing in more strenuous workloads like HEVC-encoding.


I literally mentioned gaming earlier which is what a lot of people tune here for. Not even sure what the point of your post is in reply to me.


----------



## Groove2013

It's simple - you stress test with what's the most stressful of stuff you're actually using, not with stuff you're never going to use on daily basis.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Again - no point in testing for stability in scenarios you won't face anyways.


i can understand, people's mileage may vary on how stable their cpu needs to be. i am more of a compromise performance for stability kind a guy. but what i am trying to say is when anyone posts an OC please mention whether its actual stable or game stable/partial stability.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> so the car example isnt a great one. break pads, tires, suspension and stuff, these need to be maintained on any car, even a super car if u are doing laps. but no car should have an engine, transmission failure etc just by doing couple of laps in nurburg ring. and yaq have u played every game in the world ? so the games u play and the experience u have in overclocking manages u to have a "stable" OC but still u are not guaranteed that "EVERY" game will run without problems because u arent completely stable(cause u open linpack and u fail so). i do know that linpack is an extreme stability test, it pushes current which no games will ever do. but STABLE means every test in the world the cpu should survive, there is no in between for complete stability. game stability is variable depending on the games u play etc. but u can still cool 10900k/11900k in linpack using an aio, u will have to lower voltage and reduce clocks for it to be stable but its still possible but that choice is upto, whether u want to compromise complete stability for extra 200-300mhz. i am not saying u need to be fully stable i am saying that 95% of the people arnt STABLE(people get triggered by this) and they say that their overclock is stable, i am trying to tell people mention whether your overclock is game stable or actual stable. also the reason why i mentioned cml being broken is because i have used it and pushed it to its limit(sp110) and it starts breaking(whea, usb disconnects in linux and sometimes to get in bootable linpack i need to remove my mouse otherwise it says device not ready for some reason even tho 2018 linpack default problem size which uses 4g mem is 100 runs stable, but at that time i didnt know abt the latest libraries etc which might have shown it as unstable(but issues like this should not happen even tho it might not be stable). also i did not know at that time that clocks that high will break the architecture, i was running 5.6 ht off 5.4 cache jedec. then after bit of research i found out that linpack at lower sizes residuals mismatches at stock but the 11900k matches residuals. yes i should have dropped clocks to reasonable lvl but i had a binned chip with very strong cooling so ya. also i had other problems with z490 mobo etc. again this is my experience, and i had gone chiller on 11900k and didnt face issues like this and no whea ever. i am not trying to argue or anything i just want people to be more clearer what they mean by stable.


This is so so wrong in many ways. BMW has their M5 (V10 version) Ring taxis suspension replaced every 50 laps and the cars are replaced annually. Similarly, pushing 300w for “stability” testing destroys Intel 14nm. Ask me how I know. You are literally racing your CPU on the ‘ring and it’s lifespan will reflect that.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> i can understand, people's mileage may vary on how stable their cpu needs to be. i am more of a compromise performance for stability kind a guy. but what i am trying to say is when anyone posts an OC please mention whether its actual stable or game stable/partial stability.


There is no actually stable.
If it's stable in what I do and will remain so for years, it's then actually stable, for me, in what I'm using it for.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> i can understand, people's mileage may vary on how stable their cpu needs to be. i am more of a compromise performance for stability kind a guy. but what i am trying to say is when anyone posts an OC please mention whether its actual stable or game stable/partial stability.


There is no requirement for people to post what stability testing they have run on their posts here. Let people run what they want and if it works for them then so be it.


----------



## Groove2013

If I drive a car daily for years, on public roads no problems and then a guy tells me it's no reliable, because once I will go offroad with it, it will break in pieces?
Well, I won't do offroad with it and it will serve me like 10 years or more, for my specific purposes.

You can't enforce for everyone your notion of what actually stable is.

It's like if you were to define for everybody which woman is beautiful or not, which product is good quality or not and for which purposes.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> This is so so wrong in many ways. BMW has their M5 (V10 version) Ring taxis suspension replaced every 50 laps and the cars are replaced annually. Similarly, pushing 300w for “stability” testing destroys Intel 14nm. Ask me how I know. You are literally racing your CPU on the ‘ring and it’s lifespan will reflect that.


k i am not a car expert so i shouldnt comment much abt that. but u are not running linpack 24/7 and your cpu lifespan wont have a measurable impact running it for couple of hrs. and yes i would like to know how it destroyed 14nm. afaik intel spec states 245amps.


























as u can see my current was 248 peak at 1.33v die sense so abt 332w load. temps were high cause mount was ehhh and room temp was kind a high


----------



## Groove2013

Well, push 300+ W and 200+ A through your CPU, because you "need" linpack stability, as if that's what you're really "playing" constantly, buy/use excessive and expensive cooling and pay not so nice electricity bills for no reason.

It's your choice to invent the "needs" that aren't really there and then justify/defend them.

I wouldn't want to be the person to buy a used CPU from you 100%.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Well, push 300+ W and 200+ A through your CPU, because you "need" linpack stability, as if that's what you're really "playing" constantly, buy/use excessive and expensive cooling and pay not so nice electricity bills.
> 
> It's your choice to invent the "needs" that aren't really there and then justify/defend them.
> 
> I wouldn't want to be the person to buy a used CPU from you 100%.


i am technically within spec, and so the cpu should live what intel says long term reliability. so abt 5 years ig, but i wont be running linpack 300+w all the time. its just for tests, then i will play games so i dont know what u guys are worrying abt. nothing will happen...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> k i am not a car expert so i shouldnt comment much abt that. but u are not running linpack 24/7 and your cpu lifespan wont have a measurable impact running it for couple of hrs. and yes i would like to know how it destroyed 14nm. afaik intel spec states 245amps.
> View attachment 2526910
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526911
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526912
> 
> as u can see my current was 248 peak at 1.33v die sense so abt 332w load


My SP109 10700K randomly sprung a leak and went from running at under 80C in Prime95 small fft AVX2 to crashing out at 100C. It was delidded with a frame so perhaps the substrate cracked or maybe it was the current. Good luck with your delid, I will be following this one closely.

What do you think happens after a race, the cars are parked and dusted off?


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> My SP109 10700K randomly sprung a leak and went from running at under 80C in Prime95 small fft AVX2 to crashing out at 100C. It was delidded with a frame so perhaps the substrate cracked or maybe it was the current. Good luck with your delid, I will be following this one closely.
> 
> What do you think happens after a race, the cars are parked and dusted off?


i think u got unlucky or something messed up with the delid. i have pumped 300+w on a lot of cpu, nothing like that ever happened. no signs of degradation or anything.


----------



## Groove2013

Jwick said:


> i am technically within spec, and so the cpu should live what intel says long term reliability. so abt 5 years ig, but i wont be running linpack 300+w all the time. its just for tests, then i will play games so i dont know what u guys are worrying abt. nothing will happen...


Just use the heaviest stuff you're really using and see the voltages you need for it not to fail.

I can't understand why you "need" to push high voltages and 300+ W to test for stability in games, if no game will do even 200 W and even less amperage/current.

It's like I "need" to be able to lift 300 kg, just to make sure I won't have any difficulties to carry few bags with food from a grocery store...

Makes 0 sense.


----------



## Arni90

Really though, just tune the OC to be OCCT Large Data Set stable, then set TVB to trigger at a temperature that's slightly higher than OCCT temps


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Jwick said:


> i think u got unlucky or something messed up with the delid. i have pumped 300+w on a lot of cpu, nothing like that ever happened. no signs of degradation or anything.


The delid was fine for months before that. Ironically, I was making the CPU less stable in the name of stability.


----------



## Groove2013

If you render/compile/stream - you can use that as heaviest stress test.
If you only game, take the heaviest of your games and find min voltages that will allow you to run it properly and that's it.


----------



## Groove2013

Following your "logic", your house must be made exclusively out of stones and not "just" bricks and your car must be made out of materials used for fighter jets and its parts are from race cars, just to make sure there won't be any problems when you drive to a grocery store using it...


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Just use the heaviest stuff you're really using and see the voltages you need for it not to fail.
> 
> I can't understand why you "need" to push high voltages and 300+ W to test for stability in games, if no game will do even 200 W and even less amperage/current.
> 
> It's like I "need" to be able to lift 300 kg, just to make sure I won't have any difficulties to carry few bags with food from a grocery store...
> 
> Makes 0 sense.


matter of fact i was idling 120w, so games should easily go above 200. but i get your point but cpu stability is not straight forward(ram as well, cause if u put a cpu oc on it along with the memory oc u need to check whether the imc/mem/core/cache all are stable or not, and linpack does a great job(there is no other stress test better than linpack which stresses everything), even BZ uses linpack for daily stability. for rkl yes, checking stability in game is probably enough but i like to make sure my cpu survives anything so that i dont have a second thought whether my OC is stable or not. but everyone has different ways to check stability and thats fine by me.


----------



## Groove2013

Well, if you're idling at 120 W, then there must be something wrong or it's not idling at all, but there is a load.

I have mine going to 800 MHz when idling and voltages also goes down and temp is sub 40°C, on air.


----------



## Groove2013

Even Bf or CoD won't do 200 W I think.


----------



## Arni90

Groove2013 said:


> If you render/compile/stream - you can use that as heaviest stress test.
> If you only game, take the heaviest of your games and find min voltages that will allow you to run it properly and that's it.


The problem with that approach is that you crash if the ambient temperature is slightly hotter than usual.
And even if you manage to lock down ambient temperature, there will be degradation over time, so trying to optimize for minimum voltage is pointless.

Just as it's ridiculous how some people use Cinebench to optimize their PBO settings, as if Cinebench is some kind of magical benchmark


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Well, if you're idling at 120 W, then there must be something wrong or it's not idling at all, but there is a load.
> 
> I have mine going to 800 MHz when idling and voltages also goes down and temp is sub 40°C, on air.


u can see that pic i uploaded with the tachyon. its idling 120w. Cstates disabled windows custom power plan, so its always max freq for the best frame times


----------



## Jwick

BZ uses linpack as a daily stress test method. its the only stress test which comes close to real world test. core-imc-cache-memory all are connected to each other. if u stress test each part individually(meaning a stress test which test imc and a bit of memory , another stress test which does core and another which tests memory heavy imc little etc).u wont get proper stability results, u will need to test all the parts of the cpu at once to make sure everything is stable or not.(as well as test them individually because memory needs more than one stress test) linpack is an intel test. intel uses it, why would intel create a test which kills cpu?


----------



## Groove2013

You don't need to disable c-states, EIST, no need for fixed vcore voltage and no need for 100% min frequency in Win power plan to have max frequency for all cores in games.

It's so old school and so wrong...

I'm playing a game that mostly uses only 1 thread and very very light load on the rest of threads and the all cores frequency is always max in the game, despite very light load and despite me having c-states, EIST enabled and Win power plan allowing the CPU to go down to 800 MHz, when no need for more and vcore also goes down.


----------



## Groove2013

It's same mistake as selecting "prefer max perf" in nVidia control pannel, only using a lot of power when idling, but 0 FPS difference when playing a game.


----------



## Groove2013

Wondering how far I'll be able to push my 4000 CL14 with only 1x120 mm fan blowing air on it, once I receive it.


----------



## Groove2013

Arni90 said:


> The problem with that approach is that you crash if the ambient temperature is slightly hotter than usual.
> And even if you manage to lock down ambient temperature, there will be degradation over time, so trying to optimize for minimum voltage is pointless.
> 
> Just as it's ridiculous how some people use Cinebench to optimize their PBO settings, as if Cinebench is some kind of magical benchmark


I use Prime95 (non-AVX) for that purpose. It's much lighter than linpack and the load it puts on your CPU is more than any game ever will, even considering games that use AVX(2).
So I can find vcore, io/sa and vdimm that won't fail (in any game), even during summer.


----------



## Lownage

Groove2013 said:


> Wondering how far I'll be able to push my 4000 CL14 with only 1x120 mm fan blowing air on it, once I receive it.


3866c13-14-14 @ 1,575V is the best for me. Also got a 120mm fan blowing on it. Temps are lower than 40°C


----------



## Groove2013

Lownage said:


> 3866c13-14-14 @ 1,575V is the best for me. Also got a 120mm fan blowing on it. Temps are lower than 40°C


what's your sa/io and tRFC?
it's at least better than my 3800 14-16-16 than can't do 14-14-14 even at 3733, it can't go lower than 14-15-15, so I have to use it at 3960 MHz.


----------



## Groove2013

I'm sure mine will also do 13-14-14 at 3866 and higher, but whether it will do 13-13-13 at human voltages...
and very eager to see how low tRFC will be. Now I can't go lower than 236.


----------



## Lownage

Bios voltages:
SA: 1,4V @ LLC3
IO MEM: 1,35V
DRAM: 1,57
actual voltages below











Actually never tried lowering trfc further.


----------



## Groove2013

Lownage said:


> Actually never tried lowering trfc further.


Lower tRFC boosts FPS.


----------



## Groove2013

And tRAS 14 or 15 is actually also possible, without defaulting to a much higher value, unlike on Comet Lake.
And it also improves FPS slightly, depending on game and video settings, of course.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Let's do a test....
Imagine you are going to update the MB BIOS and the CPU ucode...
Will you do this using your "stable overclock" settings, or will you roll back to default setting before update?

Let's deal, the overclock is stable until it craches... 
It's impossible to have a OC that survives all the game in the world, every stress test...

It's impossible for all games to be perfectly bug free...
Its is impossible to say my OC is 100% stable.

OC is a game... You have good players and not so good players...
And as a game, there are a lot of kinds of OC stiles... 
Old and new school, brutal force, light force, FPS objective, high clock objective, power objective.

The important thing is to have fun !!!!


----------



## Lownage

Is anyone able to run 2x16GB @ 3866-4000 1T? Could boot 3866c15 1T with super high voltages, but far from being stable


----------



## Groove2013

Lownage said:


> Is anyone able to run 2x16GB @ 3866-4000 1T? Could boot 3866c15 1T with super high voltages, but far from being stable


Coold boot as well.
It's simply not possible to make it stable and that at human voltages.


----------



## Groove2013

@Lownage is 3866 the max you can do?


----------



## Lownage

I could boot up to 3920 cl14.
Since 3866cl13 is faster in terms of latency, I´m using it right now.
My IMC is kinda crappy


----------



## Lownage

Testing [email protected] right now.
Performance is nice


----------



## Falkentyne

Lownage said:


> Testing [email protected] right now.
> Performance is nice
> View attachment 2526948


I thought you said that wasn't stable? 
If it is stable, HOW THE HELL DID YOU DO THAT


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Does anyone know if the 12900K will use more or less power than the 11900K? If less, then this might come in handy.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

0451 said:


> View attachment 2526954
> Does anyone know if the 12900K will use more or less power than the 11900K? If less, then this might come in handy.


What exactly is it?


----------



## napata

Jwick said:


> BZ uses linpack as a daily stress test method. its the only stress test which comes close to real world test. core-imc-cache-memory all are connected to each other. if u stress test each part individually(meaning a stress test which test imc and a bit of memory , another stress test which does core and another which tests memory heavy imc little etc).u wont get proper stability results, u will need to test all the parts of the cpu at once to make sure everything is stable or not.(as well as test them individually because memory needs more than one stress test) linpack is an intel test. intel uses it, why would intel create a test which kills cpu?


Yet, you can pass Linpack and still be unstable in games.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> What exactly is it?


It’s a peltier with a waterblock mounted to the hot side. It’s for using OCTVB to boost to 5.6-6ghz on 1-2 cores. It’s useful for the 10900K but not very useful for 11900K. If Intel releases a CPU that pulls 220w or less maxed out on all cores, then this tool can cool it. The problem is that it can’t cool more than 220w sustained.









EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO - Copper + Nickel


EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO is the 2nd generation of cryo-cooling water block that is made in collaboration with Intel®. It is a unique cooling solution for enthusiasts who are seeking consistent system performance and ultimate overclocking on unlocked 11th and 10th Gen Intel® Core™ desktop...




www.ekwb.com


----------



## Antsu

Groove2013 said:


> Well, if you're idling at 120 W, then there must be something wrong or it's not idling at all, but there is a load.
> 
> I have mine going to 800 MHz when idling and voltages also goes down and temp is sub 40°C, on air.


I can promise you he is not idling at 120W, lol. I use the worst settings possible for idling (everything disabled, freq and V locked to maximum) and I idle at under 30W with 1.5V and 5400Mhz...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

0451 said:


> It’s a peltier with a waterblock mounted to the hot side. It’s for using OCTVB to boost to 5.6-6ghz on 1-2 cores. It’s useful for the 10900K but not very useful for 11900K. If Intel releases a CPU that pulls 220w or less maxed out on all cores, then this tool can cool it. The problem is that it can’t cool more than 220w sustained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO - Copper + Nickel
> 
> 
> EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO is the 2nd generation of cryo-cooling water block that is made in collaboration with Intel®. It is a unique cooling solution for enthusiasts who are seeking consistent system performance and ultimate overclocking on unlocked 11th and 10th Gen Intel® Core™ desktop...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ekwb.com


It is exactly what I thought... LOL
I would like to test this with my 10900k but hadn't a chance...
I think it's a great cooler for my kind of OC...
I will build a new setup with a 12900k and I did research about cryo cooling. 
So far nobody knows if it will be compatible with 12900k because the cooler “talk” to CPU and there is no information from intel if 12900k will "talk" to cryo coolers...
Anyway, 10900k, 11900k and 12900k have the same TDP... I think it will be as hot as 10 and 11... or more... Because we are talking about more cores...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I have a big problem with my room temps...
Here, where I live, some days I have 35C in my room office... And some nights 15C.... So my water follow this line...
Now I have my air-conditioned on and my room is 29C... Water temp is 36C...
I thought to build a "peltier case" to keep all inside cooled, but It is too much work and I need to solve the condensation problem...
So I'm thinking about a 420mm AIO for the 12900k...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Has anyone tested the Alphacool Eisbaer 360 or 420mm?


----------



## Groove2013

RobertoSampaio said:


> Has anyone tested the Alphacool Eisbaer 360 or 420mm?


Eisbaer Aurora is what you should buy.
Avoid at all cost non-Aurora Eisbaer.
The fans are to be replaced by better ones.


----------



## Lownage

Falkentyne said:


> I thought you said that wasn't stable?
> If it is stable, HOW THE HELL DID YOU DO THAT


I never said that. I said "I actually never tried lower than 249".
Testing right now:









edit: error @ 2200%


----------



## ALSTER868

Lownage said:


> Testing right now


What kind of kit is that you have?


----------



## Lownage

ALSTER868 said:


> What kind of kit is that you have?


F4-4000C14D-32GTES








F4-4000C14D-32GTES - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB) The Trident Z Royal Elite series is the upper echelon of DDR4 DRAM performance and design, featuring a meticulously sculpted crystalline pattern across the polished surface of the aluminum heatspreader, a patented full-length...




gskill.com





Using stock heatspreader


----------



## ALSTER868

Lownage said:


> F4-4000C14D-32GTES


And what is it capabale of in Gear 2? I'm also considering this kit.


----------



## Lownage

ALSTER868 said:


> And what is it capabale of in Gear 2? I'm also considering this kit.


Since all I do is gaming, i settled with Gear1. No idea what this kit is capable of in Gear2. Sorry


----------



## sugi0lover

Finally, SP104 11900K is in my system. I will let you know what it can do.


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> Finally, SP104 11900K is in my system. I will let you know what it can do.
> 
> View attachment 2527055
> 
> 
> View attachment 2527056


looking forward to see 4000 c13 dr


----------



## IronAge

ALSTER868 said:


> And what is it capabale of in Gear 2? I'm also considering this kit.


AFAIK there are better Boards than M13A for Gear 2 with SR B-Die.


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> AFAIK there are better Boards than M13A for Gear 2 with SR B-Die.


Cold is too powerful


----------



## IronAge

Sure, Gear2 DDR4-5000 with B-DIE on M13A ... can not remember that, maybe you want to help me out ?


----------



## CZonin

Hey everyone. My 10900k died the other day so I ended up grabbing a 11900k and a MSI Z590i Unify. I had my 10900k at 5.1 @ 1.345. I'm also running 32GB of 4266 C17 Royals.

Been reading through this thread and it seems like there's some difference's in overclocking 11th gen compared to 10th. Any quick suggestions on a good starting place?


----------



## Jwick

CZonin said:


> Hey everyone. My 10900k died the other day so I ended up grabbing a 11900k and a MSI Z590i Unify. I had my 10900k at 5.1 @ 1.345. I'm also running 32GB of 4266 C17 Royals.
> 
> Been reading through this thread and it seems like there's some difference's in overclocking 11th gen compared to 10th. Any quick suggestions on a good starting place?


voltage tolerances went up, so 1.45v under io2, io doesnt need to be touched for the most part, 1.52v under sa. some multipliers dont work on RKL g1. 3733 works perfectly fine, 3866 on the dark it doesnt(it also has a * above it) 4000 also works(that is if u can go that high). so its ALL ABT BCLK. also set 133 ref clock


----------



## YaqY

IronAge said:


> Sure, Gear2 DDR4-5000 with B-DIE on M13A ... can not remember that, maybe you want to help me out ?


Seen it lots on the apex dude, check out some of the hwbot subs for geekbench etc, it’s not uncommon ambient for RKL.


----------



## IronAge

Well, actually i wanted to get sb else to search  , found a few under AIDA Memory Read Ranking:.



https://hwbot.org/submission/4813273_bobnz_aida64___memory_read_ddr4_sdram_84164_points/





https://hwbot.org/submission/4813194_triox.sgi_aida64___memory_read_ddr4_sdram_83572_points/





https://hwbot.org/submission/4813166_ivancupa_aida64___memory_read_ddr4_sdram_83508_points/


----------



## Jwick

welcome back my friend @cstkl1


----------



## satinghostrider

Jwick said:


> welcome back my friend @cstkl1


@cstkl1 be like:








Welcome back anyways. 😎


----------



## bscool

ALSTER868 said:


> And what is it capabale of in Gear 2? I'm also considering this kit.


I have a kit of the 4000c14 2x16 and in z590 Apex and z590 Unify X getting past 4400 is difficult. I have other kits like 3200c14, 3600c14 and 4400c15 2x16 kits that are easier to run at 4533+. Either I got a weird kit or their is something 11th gen cpus don't like with the 4000c14 DR kit at higher frequencies in gear 2.

The same 4000c14 kit I have does fine with 10th gen CPU in z490 and z590 MB at 4533.

I am talking DR only SR is easy on z590 as far as I know with about any kit. I don't have a SR 4000c14 kit though to test. And take it with a grain of salt as my sample size is small. Curious if anyone else with 4000c14 is seeing same thing on z590 and gear 2.

I think @Jwick saw the same thing?


----------



## sugi0lover

Testing 11900K (SP104)
This is my simple test of quality of core, cache & imc by seeeing the voltages of booting under the room temp 26C. Result? Amazing!

CPU : [email protected]
Cache : 4800Mhz
Memory : 3866Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T (Gear 1)
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.3700v (LLC7) / RAM 1.550v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.400v / Mem OC IO 1.350v


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a big problem with my room temps...
> Here, where I live, some days I have 35C in my room office... And some nights 15C.... So my water follow this line...
> Now I have my air-conditioned on and my room is 29C... Water temp is 36C...
> I thought to build a "peltier case" to keep all inside cooled, but It is too much work and I need to solve the condensation problem...
> So I'm thinking about a 420mm AIO for the 12900k...





sugi0lover said:


> Testing 11900K (SP104)
> This is my simple test of quality of core, cache & imc by seeeing the voltages of booting under the room temp 26C. Result? Amazing!
> 
> CPU : [email protected]
> Cache : 4800Mhz
> Memory : 3866Mhz-13-13-13-14-215-2T (Gear 1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.3700v (LLC7) / RAM 1.550v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.400v / Mem OC IO 1.350v
> 
> View attachment 2527162


Congrats on your chip!

According to MyLittlePwny, one of his friends got a sp200 11900K. 5.7 on 4 cores and 5.5 on the other 4 at 1.5v. Who ever said you should buy CPUs on release hasn’t quite figured it out.


----------



## o1dschoo1

0451 said:


> Congrats on your chip!
> 
> According to MyLittlePwny, one of his friends got a sp200 11900K. 5.7 on 4 cores and 5.5 on the other 4 at 1.5v. Who ever said you should buy CPUs on release hasn’t quite figured it out.
> 
> View attachment 2527164
> View attachment 2527165


In b4 heart attack


----------



## D-EJ915

1.1 for 5.3 lol dang, they'd probably win that 1.0v oc contest lol


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Congrats on your chip!
> 
> According to MyLittlePwny, one of his friends got a sp200 11900K. 5.7 on 4 cores and 5.5 on the other 4 at 1.5v. Who ever said you should buy CPUs on release hasn’t quite figured it out.
> 
> View attachment 2527164
> View attachment 2527165


If SP doesn't change after bios update and the Cine was not under chiller or ln2, this is the god of 11900K.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

sugi0lover said:


> If SP doesn't change after bios update and the Cine was not under chiller or ln2, this is the god of 11900K.


Ln2 Bug


----------



## CallMeODZ

sp 200? clearly the result of a blood sacrifice


----------



## Groove2013

Imagine SP 200 and then sh**ty IMC )))


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Imagine SP 200 and then sh**ty IMC )))


The trick is to believe in yourself, not your SP or IMC.


----------



## CallMeODZ

0451 said:


> The trick is to believe in yourself, not your SP or IMC.



that should be written on the amazon boxes that contain tech to stop the millions of ram kits being returned


----------



## Jwick

bscool said:


> I have a kit of the 4000c14 2x16 and in z590 Apex and z590 Unify X getting past 4400 is difficult. I have other kits like 3200c14, 3600c14 and 4400c15 2x16 kits that are easier to run at 4533+. Either I got a weird kit or their is something 11th gen cpus don't like with the 4000c14 DR kit at higher frequencies in gear 2.
> 
> The same 4000c14 kit I have does fine with 10th gen CPU in z490 and z590 MB at 4533.
> 
> I am talking DR only SR is easy on z590 as far as I know with about any kit. I don't have a SR 4000c14 kit though to test. And take it with a grain of salt as my sample size is small. Curious if anyone else with 4000c14 is seeing same thing on z590 and gear 2.
> 
> I think @Jwick saw the same thing?


nop i havnt done gear 2 yet. waiting for my chip from rockit cooling.


----------



## IronAge

sugi0lover said:


> If SP doesn't change after bios update and the Cine was not under chiller or ln2, this is the god of 11900K.


@0451

IMHO he should seell this chip to an extreme overclocker for a new RKL WR try.

Edit: BS removed.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Lownage said:


> Is anyone able to run 2x16GB @ 3866-4000 1T? Could boot 3866c15 1T with super high voltages, but far from being stable





Lownage said:


> I never said that. I said "I actually never tried lower than 249".
> Testing right now:
> View attachment 2527024
> 
> 
> edit: error @ 2200%


We have pretty much same memory binning (4000 cl14 1.55) and i'm doing 2x16gb dual rank 13-14-12-23-35 T1 with tRFC 228 @ 1900 speeds stable with 1.56 vdimm but this is with a amd platform tho







25 cycles testmem 1usmus cfg
3000% Karhu ramtest
30min OCCT Large AVX
Aida64 memory benchmark with fantasy numbers
CPU-Z cpu bench, ST 709 and MT above 14k

Quick and easy gaming test in SotTR with daily 24/7 settings using hydra


----------



## sugi0lover

IronAge said:


> @0451
> 
> IMHO he should seell this chip to an extreme overclocker for a new RKL WR try.
> 
> guess as long as Alder Lake is not available it should get him ~1500$-2000$
> 
> Would be nice to know which week this cpu has been made. (Batch/FPO Number)


Like OLDFATSHEEP said, it's ln2 bug. If there is a real SP200 11900k with great imc, I am willing to pay more than 2 grand ^^


----------



## IronAge

yeah due to the weird cooling raiting something had to be wrong.


----------



## sugi0lover

Gear1 4000-CL13 completed with the help of new 11900K
13-13-13 is not possible atm and only bclk oc from 3866 to 4000 works.
Anyway, I guess this is as far as I can push with my current rig.

Memory OC : 4000Mhz-13-14-14-14-215-2T (Gear 1)
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : RAM 1.630v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.520v / Mem OC IO 1.420v


----------



## ALSTER868

sugi0lover said:


> Gear1 4000-CL13 completed with the help of new 11900K


That's insane, man, congrats on that. 
Do you think it is safe to keep vdram at 1.63v 24/7?


----------



## sugi0lover

ALSTER868 said:


> That's insane, man, congrats on that.
> Do you think it is safe to keep vdram at 1.63v 24/7?


Thanks. I feel comfortable with the voltages. For 5000 CL16 (Gear2), I had used 1.700v for a couple of months without any problem.


----------



## Jwick

sugi0lover said:


> Gear1 4000-CL13 completed with the help of new 11900K
> 13-13-13 is not possible atm and only bclk oc from 3866 to 4000 works.
> Anyway, I guess this is as far as I can push with my current rig.
> 
> Memory OC : 4000Mhz-13-14-14-14-215-2T (Gear 1)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Voltages (Bios, before optimization) : RAM 1.630v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.520v / Mem OC IO 1.420v
> 
> View attachment 2527232


wow insane. have u optimized skews at all?


----------



## IronAge

@sugi0lover 

Time for Alder Lake with DDR5-8000 CL50  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443936502883311620


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> @sugi0lover
> 
> Time for Alder Lake with DDR5-8000 CL50
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443936502883311620


what's interesting is that it will be 2 channels per dimm/slot )))
2x32 bit instead of 1x64 bit.

but 8000 MT/s CL50 is 12.5 ns.
even 3800 CL15 is 7.89 ns


----------



## IronAge

sugi0lover memory tweaking skills required urgently.


----------



## tps3443

Running 4,800 CL18 (Gear 2) on a Z590 Dark. I will say I am not an expert when it comes to memory tuning. So as a possibility, I can see gear 2 sub 39-40NS in the right hands with a Z590 Dark. This board is ridiculous..


----------



## sugi0lover

Jwick said:


> wow insane. have u optimized skews at all?


From your comment, I understand skews can help a lot. But I haven't gone that far.
Maybe 4000-13-13-13 can be done with optimized skews. I will try since I don't have any OC goal atm.



IronAge said:


> @sugi0lover
> 
> Time for Alder Lake with DDR5-8000 CL50
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443936502883311620


I will get my hands on when it's available.



IronAge said:


> sugi0lover memory tweaking skills required urgently.


Thanks for your comment. I just happen to have good imc, memory kit and ram-water cooling. 



tps3443 said:


> Running 4,800 CL18 (Gear 2) on a Z590 Dark. I will say I am not an expert when it comes to memory tuning. So as a possibility, I can see gear 2 sub 39-40NS in the right hands with a Z590 Dark. This board is ridiculous..
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2527279


Z590 Dark is ridiculous? It may be right. 
But look what M13A could already do. I posted this setting before with HCI passed, not just for bench setup.


----------



## Neon Knights

Hello , i got a used RL 11900K which can do 5,2 allcore with 4500 cache (3733 G1 was easy btw) . 
But i have another Problem. Every Time the PC step back from energy standby mode , 6 from the 8 cores are always at max 5,1 GHZ . Suspicious is that only the two strongest cores are running at 5,2 . I use almost the balanced energy win 10 profile and i had reset al existing profiles to default in win 10 - no changes. Does anybody know what is going wrong there? THX


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> Running 4,800 CL18 (Gear 2) on a Z590 Dark. I will say I am not an expert when it comes to memory tuning. So as a possibility, I can see gear 2 sub 39-40NS in the right hands with a Z590 Dark. This board is ridiculous..
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2527279


the bios version is old. 1.05v latest. i think they improved g2 on 1.03 or something dont remember. EVGA isnt ASUS, latest is best 😜


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> From your comment, I understand skews can help a lot. But I haven't gone that far.
> Maybe 4000-13-13-13 can be done with optimized skews. I will try since I don't have any OC goal atm.
> 
> 
> I will get my hands on when it's available.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your comment. I just happen to have good imc, memory kit and ram-water cooling.
> 
> 
> Z590 Dark is ridiculous? It may be right.
> But look what M13A could already do. I posted this setting before with HCI passed, not just for bench setup.
> View attachment 2527280


It's a reason we buy Apex EVERY season


----------



## Delpize

@shamino1978

Could you please check my settings below. I have 11900k, z490 apex. And im getting 41.4 latency with this memory settings.48core/45cache. Could you please help for lowering latency. I heard you can
change PPD setting on 0098 bios but im not sure if its true. Could you please help?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Does anyone have odyssey g9 monitor? what do you think?
Does the 3080 get about 100fps overall with it?


----------



## sugi0lover

Delpize said:


> @shamino1978
> 
> Could you please check my settings below. I have 11900k, z490 apex. And im getting 41.4 latency with this memory settings.48core/45cache. Could you please help for lowering latency. I heard you can
> change PPD setting on 0098 bios but im not sure if its true. Could you please help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2527412


With 11900K, I used Z490 Apex for a short time until Z590 Apex came out.
According to my AIDA test, the difference came from copy bandwidth and latency (round trip latency enabled for both setup)
I am not sure but PPD and txp don't seem to work with 11th gen. Instead, round trip latency to enabled helps lowering latency.
If you change your MB to Z590 Apex, you can lower your latency as well.
For me, the biggest problem with 11900K + Z490 Apex was that the GPU load didn't work well with Z490 Apex = low gaming performance.
After changing to Z590 Apex, everything got solved.

*[Aida64 benchmark]*









*[Benchmark with Division 2 with preset highest]*
You can see GPU % is a lot higher with Z590 Apex.
Same CPU % and both pcie 4.0 GPU~









*[3DMark portroyal]*
Don't see 10900K result as its GPU temp was 25C when I measured in winter with Mora420 out on balcony.
See the difference 11900K with Z490 Apex and Z590 Apex, the score with Z590 is higher than Z490.








Result







www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> With 11900K, I used Z490 Apex for a short time until Z590 Apex came out.
> According to my AIDA test, the difference came from copy bandwidth and latency (round trip latency enabled for both setup)
> I am not sure but PPD and txp don't seem to work with 11th gen. Instead, round trip latency to enabled helps lowering latency.
> If you change your MB to Z590 Apex, you can lower your latency as well.
> For me, the biggest problem with 11900K + Z490 Apex was that the load of the graphic card usage didn't work well with Z490 Apex = low gaming performance.
> After changing to Z590 Apex, everything got solved.
> 
> *[Aida64 benchmark]*
> View attachment 2527449
> 
> 
> *[Benchmark with Division 2 with preset highest]*
> You can see GPU % is a lot higher with Z590 Apex.
> View attachment 2527451
> 
> 
> *[3DMark portroyal]*
> Don't see 10900K result as its GPU temp was 25C when I measured in winter with Mora420 out on balcony.
> See the difference 11900K with Z490 Apex and Z590 Apex, the score with Z590 is higher than Z490.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2527452


Something is up with those RKL Apex PR scores

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)


----------



## Delpize

sugi0lover said:


> With 11900K, I used Z490 Apex for a short time until Z590 Apex came out.
> According to my AIDA test, the difference came from copy bandwidth and latency (round trip latency enabled for both setup)
> I am not sure but PPD and txp don't seem to work with 11th gen. Instead, round trip latency to enabled helps lowering latency.
> If you change your MB to Z590 Apex, you can lower your latency as well.
> For me, the biggest problem with 11900K + Z490 Apex was that the GPU load didn't work well with Z490 Apex = low gaming performance.
> After changing to Z590 Apex, everything got solved.
> 
> *[Aida64 benchmark]*
> View attachment 2527449
> 
> 
> *[Benchmark with Division 2 with preset highest]*
> You can see GPU % is a lot higher with Z590 Apex.
> Same CPU % and both pcie 4.0 GPU~
> View attachment 2527455
> 
> 
> *[3DMark portroyal]*
> Don't see 10900K result as its GPU temp was 25C when I measured in winter with Mora420 out on balcony.
> See the difference 11900K with Z490 Apex and Z590 Apex, the score with Z590 is higher than Z490.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2527452


Ahh... maybe thats why im getting lower fps on Apex Legends than 10850k with z490 apex. Didn't check gpu load but thats probably the reason.. I ll skip 12th gen so, my best choice ia to switxh z590 apex i guess...

Thank you for this great detailed information sir.


----------



## spin5000

How do we stability test less than 8-core-active CPU frequency overclocks? For example, I want to test something like 1-2 cores active @ 5.44 GHz, 3-4 cores @ 5.34 GHz, 5-8 cores @ 5.24 GHz...

I'm 99.9% sure my all-core OC of CPU (5.24 GHz), cache (4.54 GHz), and RAM (3629 MHz) is stable using a ton of different programs but now I want to see how high I can go with the less-than-all-core overclocks.

I'm guessing just use Prime95, OCCT, and Linpack Xtreme and just manually change the thread amounts? If so, does that mean I need to do 16x the amount of stress tests as normal since I should perform all stress tests using 15 threads, then again but using 14 threads, then 13 threads, etc. all the way down to 1 thread?

P.S. Don't mind the weird #s for my OCs (eg. 5.24 GHz instead of 5.20), it's just because of my 100.8 BClk OC.


----------



## tps3443

sugi0lover said:


> From your comment, I understand skews can help a lot. But I haven't gone that far.
> Maybe 4000-13-13-13 can be done with optimized skews. I will try since I don't have any OC goal atm.
> 
> 
> I will get my hands on when it's available.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your comment. I just happen to have good imc, memory kit and ram-water cooling.
> 
> 
> Z590 Dark is ridiculous? It may be right.
> But look what M13A could already do. I posted this setting before with HCI passed, not just for bench setup.
> View attachment 2527280


Oh hey! Very Nice results. I should be able to do that. I’ve been busy. But I just tested 5,000Mhz CL17-17-17 before work this morning and it’s very close. I will tweak secondaries after work tonight, and boost frequency.

Thank you for sharing!




Here are my results.



image hosting service


----------



## Bakuya

Hello. somebody lnow why my board begin to double start???


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> Oh hey! Very Nice results. I should be able to do that. I’ve been busy. But I just tested 5,000Mhz CL17-17-17 before work this morning and it’s very close. I will tweak secondaries after work tonight, and boost frequency.
> 
> Thank you for sharing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my results.
> 
> 
> 
> image hosting service


Nice 2x16 results. Makes me want a Dark so I can have an all EVGA build.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

@tps3443 

Can you run Port Royal maxed out? I’m curious to see what another high layer-count board can do.


----------



## Jwick

0451 said:


> Nice 2x16 results. Makes me want a Dark so I can have an all EVGA build.


that should be 2x8.


----------



## tps3443

Yes I am testing 2x8GB.

DDR4 5,200Mhz posted easily. Tuning right now.


----------



## bscool

Copy should be closer to 80,000 if that were DR.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> @tps3443
> 
> Can you run Port Royal maxed out? I’m curious to see what another high layer-count board can do.


yep after 8PM est time. No problem.


----------



## sugi0lover

tps3443 said:


> Oh hey! Very Nice results. I should be able to do that. I’ve been busy. But I just tested 5,000Mhz CL17-17-17 before work this morning and it’s very close. I will tweak secondaries after work tonight, and boost frequency.
> 
> Thank you for sharing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my results.
> 
> 
> 
> image hosting service


If it's stable setting not just bench setting, it is very nice.
Good luck with your OC journey!

Anyway, for 5200, this could be booted easily with 8x2 ram kit, but not stable.


----------



## spin5000

Is it possible to increase cpu voltage for just 1 core, if not, can overall cpu voltage be increased for when that particular core has a high load?

All my cores are stable in single-thread AVX2 @ 5.34 GHz except core 4 and when I tried @ 5.44 GHz they're all stable except core 4 and 5...


----------



## Falkentyne

spin5000 said:


> Is it possible to increase cpu voltage for just 1 core, if not, can overall cpu voltage be increased for when that particular core has a high load?
> 
> All my cores are stable in single-thread AVX2 @ 5.34 GHz except core 4 and when I tried @ 5.44 GHz they're all stable except core 4 and 5...


No you can't. You need HEDT for that.
All cores share the same voltage rail on consumer boards.

As far as loads, you can mess with the V/F curve or the AC Loadline setting but be very careful you understand what that setting does and do not use it at a mOhms value higher than 1.1 mOhms at the same time as a too aggressive "Vcore loadline calibration" (low mOhms) setting. ACLL works on the input side and loadline calibration works on the output side (which is why a high mohms ACLL and a low mOhms (aggressive/tight) vcore Loadline do NOT MIX together like you think and can cause massive vcore overshoot when combined this way. ACLL only works on adaptive/offset or SVID voltage modes, not on fixed vcore. And because it has to adjust to load changes by something called "Loadstep" (D1-D0), it can be even worse if you're relying on a high (>1.1 mOhms) value to boost the vcore at load for you.


----------



## spin5000

Thanks, Falkentyne, That all seems too complicated for me so I won't venture there.

Does anyone know how AVX guardband works? I believe it adds/subtracts voltage during AVX loads? The reason I ask is because I think one of my cores (just one) fails AVX2 and AVX512 workloads when there are anywhere from 3 to 5 cores active. I'd like to increase just the AVX voltage a bit.

Gigabyte's AVX Guardband is set from 1 to 199. Is a value of 100 essentially the default/"auto" setting and therefore anything less than 100 would be subtracting voltage (eg. 75 = -25% AVX voltage) and anything more than 100 would be adding voltage (eg. 125 = +25% AVX voltage)?

I just need a bit more voltage for a particular core (core 4) for a particular situation (3-5 active cores) for a particular load-type (AVX2 & AX512) therefore I think using an AVX offset, adding more overall voltage, reducing frequency, etc. would be overkill...


----------



## Arni90

spin5000 said:


> Is it possible to increase cpu voltage for just 1 core, if not, can overall cpu voltage be increased for when that particular core has a high load?
> 
> All my cores are stable in single-thread AVX2 @ 5.34 GHz except core 4 and when I tried @ 5.44 GHz they're all stable except core 4 and 5...


Either limit maximum multiplier for core 4 and 5, or adjust V/F point 8


----------



## eeroo94

spin5000 said:


> Gigabyte's AVX Guardband is set from 1 to 199. Is a value of 100 essentially the default/"auto" setting and therefore anything less than 100 would be subtracting voltage (eg. 75 = -25% AVX voltage) and anything more than 100 would be adding voltage (eg. 125 = +25% AVX voltage)?


I tried playing with AVX Guardband and it didn't seem to do anything for me with my Asus board whether set to 1 or 199. Reason why I tried to use it was because voltage was unnecessarily high during AVX-512 loads when using auto or adaptive voltage.


----------



## spin5000

Arni90 said:


> Either limit maximum multiplier for core 4 and 5, or adjust V/F point 8


Yes but that's an overkill "brute force" method because increasing voltage of V/F point 8 means that the voltage for point 8 will _always_ be increased. My point 8 voltage is fine for non-AVX and AVX1 (and fine for AVX2 when all cores are loaded). Same with limiting maximum multiplier. I've already limited maximum multipliers of different cores to be stable with non-AVX and AVX1.

There's got to be a better way. Those 2 options given involve either adding voltage or reducing frequency _all the time_ (non-AVX, AVX, AVX2) and no matter the # of active cores. I just need to increase voltage _only_ when AVX2 is used and only during loads of 3-5 active cores...


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## Falkentyne

spin5000 said:


> Yes but that's an overkill "brute force" method because increasing voltage of V/F point 8 means that the voltage for point 8 will _always_ be increased. My point 8 voltage is fine for non-AVX and AVX1 (and fine for AVX2 when all cores are loaded). Same with limiting maximum multiplier. I've already limited maximum multipliers of different cores to be stable with non-AVX and AVX1.
> 
> There's got to be a better way. Those 2 options given involve either adding voltage or reducing frequency _all the time_ (non-AVX, AVX, AVX2) and no matter the # of active cores. I just need to increase voltage _only_ when AVX2 is used and only during loads of 3-5 active cores...


You're simply not going to be able to do this. You'll have a bigger chance of flying to space on Bezos' spaceship capsule.

I believe _cache_ voltage is used heavily during AVX2 workloads, from my messing around with changing "VID" voltage directly and using Throttlestop, where you could set Vcore and cache voltage separately. But Throttlestop doesn't change VRM voltage. It has no access to the VRM. It has to communicate through Serial VID, meaning it has to talk to the CPU itself.
I noticed when I set a fixed CPU VID of a certain value like 1.20v and a cache voltage of 1.15v, I got bizarre behavior. What I think (from DISTANT MEMORY) I found was that CPU Core voltage (SVID) was used during SSE2/normal workloads, and the HIGHER OF CACHE AND CORE VOLTAGE was used during AVX workloads. So it didn't matter which one was set higher during AVX. The higher of the two always got used. That was a few years ago when I messed around with that.


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2527897


interesting! Can you guide me to the source of this bench?


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> interesting! Can you guide me to the source of this bench?











Far Cry 6 тест GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | Тест GPU


Far Cry 6 — это шутер от первого лица в открытом мире, действие которого разворачивается в выдуманной стране, на




gamegpu.com





Ps: change language on the page. Top left with the flag


----------



## cstkl1

Spoiler: Battlefield 2042 Open Beta - 1440p Max - RTX3080



                      



BattleField 2042

1440p My bad.. this is Auto Max Fidelity which i think is High
the UI is so clunky
11900k - 51|46
2x8gb 3866C13

odd.. game.. running like ussain bolt but distance covered vs time doesnt seem to make sense


----------



## cstkl1

11900k - 51|46
M13A - 1102
2x8gb - 3866 13-14-14-14 - 1T
RTX STRIX 3080 - 2130/21


















forgive me for this software .. abit new to it


----------



## Talon2016

This thread has gone quiet lately. Everyone must be busy testing their ES 12900K and Z690s.


----------



## Delpize

So guys, especially @cstkl1 
I went from 10850k to 11900k on z490 apex. However my fps is lower in games.(gear 1 3800 13-14-14-28 also my latenct was 35ns with 10850k same ram same mobo.now its 40ns)

. So I searched on the internet and people say its because of microcode. But i alrady use latest bios. Does anyone have an idea? How can i fix it. I was getting 190 stable fps with 10850k but now with the 11900k and. Z490 ıts dropping to 130?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Talon2016 said:


> This thread has gone quiet lately. Everyone must be busy testing their ES 12900K and Z690s.



Aren't you testing too?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm still testing my 10900K .... LOL


----------



## Arni90

Delpize said:


> So guys, especially @cstkl1
> I went from 10850k to 11900k on z490 apex. However my fps is lower in games.(gear 1 3800 13-14-14-28 also my latenct was 35ns with 10850k same ram same mobo.now its 40ns)
> 
> . So I searched on the internet and people say its because of microcode. But i alrady use latest bios. Does anyone have an idea? How can i fix it. I was getting 190 stable fps with 10850k but now with the 11900k and. Z490 ıts dropping to 130?


That's expected, some games perform worse on Rocket Lake than they did on Comet Lake.

Also, Apex 12 doesn't perform as well as Apex 13 with Rocket Lake for some reason.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> This thread has gone quiet lately. Everyone must be busy testing their ES 12900K and Z690s.


LMAO
Or maybe they blew up their power imbalanced video cards in New World.


----------



## sugi0lover

Far Cry 6 tesing...

This is from 








Far Cry 6: PC graphics performance benchmark review


Ubisoft presents Far Cry 6, and we'll test it with 40 graphics cards and technologies like the shading engine, Raytracing as well as FSR, which can be applied toGeForce graphics cards as well. We... Game performance 1920x1080 (Full HD)




www.guru3d.com













My benchmark with 3090 Strix + [email protected] + Cache 4.8Ghz + DR 32GB Gear1 4000-13-14-14-14-215-2T
Even my minimum fps is higher than average fps of the above benchmark.
The reason we OC..


----------



## cstkl1

Delpize said:


> So guys, especially @cstkl1
> I went from 10850k to 11900k on z490 apex. However my fps is lower in games.(gear 1 3800 13-14-14-28 also my latenct was 35ns with 10850k same ram same mobo.now its 40ns)
> 
> . So I searched on the internet and people say its because of microcode. But i alrady use latest bios. Does anyone have an idea? How can i fix it. I was getting 190 stable fps with 10850k but now with the 11900k and. Z490 ıts dropping to 130?


3800? ure running bclk on 3733 or 3866 strap?

can i see ure aida? what game btw?
still got time to check .
so game, reso, settings etc.


----------



## cstkl1

This not possible with any cpus until 11900k

Pub | Books | Legend | Halescourge 










Bots| Full Books | Legend | Engines of War | OBS Nvenc record 4:4:4 ( 52gb)... 
[email protected] will be tanking below 100fps.


----------



## Delpize

cstkl1 said:


> 3800? ure running bclk on 3733 or 3866 strap?
> 
> can i see ure aida? what game btw?
> still got time to check .
> so game, reso, settings etc.


Im going to show you in 2h


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Do a test...
Disable vmx and vtd in bios...


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> This not possible with any cpus until 11900k
> 
> Pub | Books | Legend | Halescourge
> 
> View attachment 2528153
> 
> 
> Bots| Full Books | Legend | Engines of War | OBS Nvenc record 4:4:4 ( 52gb)...
> [email protected] will be tanking below 100fps.
> 
> View attachment 2528154


11th gen frame time consistency looks so much better than 10th gen.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> My benchmark with 3090 Strix + [email protected] + Cache 4.8Ghz + DR 32GB Gear1 4000-13-14-14-14-215-2T
> Even my minimum fps is higher than average fps of the above benchmark.
> The reason we OC..


Here is my 10900k with matching clock speeds @5.3/4.8GHz ,but with 16GB SR 4700c17
The results are pretty much equal, but tuning is king indeed


----------



## Jwick

SuperMumrik said:


> Here is my 10900k with matching clock speeds @5.3/4.8GHz ,but with 16GB SR 4700c17
> The results are pretty much equal, but tuning is king indeed
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528160


the results are not "equal" .the frame times are all over the place on 10th gen compared to 11th gen. prob due to 10th gen arch broken. 10900k is 6 cores glued skylake so i mean. u cant expect good frame times from it 😜


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> Here is my 10900k with matching clock speeds @5.3/4.8GHz ,but with 16GB SR 4700c17
> The results are pretty much equal, but tuning is king indeed
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528160


Looks like it's beating MAXXXX! tweaked 11900k even with singlerank memory


----------



## SuperMumrik

Jwick said:


> the results are not "equal" .the frame times are all over the place on 10th gen compared to 11th gen. prob due to 10th gen arch broken. 10900k is 6 cores glued skylake so i mean. u cant expect good frame times from it 😜


With higher min so it really don't matter much, HOWEVER this is with SR


----------



## Jwick

SuperMumrik said:


> With higher min so it really don't matter much, HOWEVER this is with SR


frame times are superior than higher lows(if u are a gamer). u can see those dips on the graph on 10th gen but 11th gen doesnt do that. DR isnt going to solve that, its an architectural flaw. if u could tune DR well ,u might get slightly better min and avg, but the dips will still be there. the overall graph will go up slightly on tuned DR but delta of the dip will still be the same.(that is if u can tune DR better than SR)


----------



## SuperMumrik

Jwick said:


> frame times are superior than higher lows(if u are a gamer). u can see those dips on the graph on 10th gen but 11th gen doesnt do that. DR isnt going to solve that, its an architectural flaw. if u could tune DR well ,u might get slightly better min and avg, but the dips will still be there. the overall graph will go up slightly on tuned DR but delta of the dip will still be the same.(that is if u can tune DR better than SR)


What you fail to realize is that most games got perfectly flat frametime graphs (warzone, bf, and most multiplayer games I've tested). 
Far Cry and AC games are outliers more than anything, but those are story games I enjoy at 4k on a o-led with g-sync and a controller


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> frame times are superior than higher lows(if u are a gamer). u can see those dips on the graph on 10th gen but 11th gen doesnt do that. DR isnt going to solve that, its an architectural flaw. if u could tune DR well ,u might get slightly better min and avg, but the dips will still be there. the overall graph will go up slightly on tuned DR but delta of the dip will still be the same.(that is if u can tune DR better than SR)


You understand the graphs have different scales? Stop with the coping dude, many of us here have good FPS on 10th gen as well as people on 11th gen. Architectural flaw just sounds like you don't understand how to tune your rig as a coping mechanism.


----------



## Nizzen

Jwick said:


> the results are not "equal" .the frame times are all over the place on 10th gen compared to 11th gen. prob due to 10th gen arch broken. 10900k is 6 cores glued skylake so i mean. u cant expect good frame times from it 😜


Look at the timeline vs fps. Then answer again


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> BattleField 2042
> 
> odd.. game.. running like ussain bolt but distance covered vs time doesnt seem to make sense


Sprint speed, reloading time, what's displayed on the screen (GUI) and really a lot of other stuff can be adjusted as/via server settings/config.


----------



## Delpize

cstkl1 said:


> 3800? ure running bclk on 3733 or 3866 strap?
> 
> can i see ure aida? what game btw?
> still got time to check .
> so game, reso, settings etc.


This is my current setup. May i list my problems here?

1- I was getting higher fps with 10850k and z490 apex. But rightnow my fps is lower with same mobo/ram with 11900k. There huge fps difference. For example, i play Apex Legends Lowest settings 1080p. And when i was on the ship, right before we jump, i was getting stable 190fps. But right now its around 120-160).
2- I was getting 36 ish latency on aida with same ram/mobo with 10850k. But 41 ns is not what i deserve. (Was using same clock/cache)
3-My ram training takes years. It doesnt train properly, i mean its take too long. I wonder if im missing/or doing something wrong. Maybe bios version? I flashed my both backup and main bios
to the 2103 with using the button behind of mobo.

Would be really nice if you could help me, its been 5 days with this cpu but i couldnt even gaming once.


----------



## Groove2013

@Delpize you were supposed to also mention/include game's name, settings and resolution...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Delpize said:


> This is my current setup. May i list my problems here?
> 
> 1- I was getting higher fps with 10850k and z490 apex. But rightnow my fps is lower with same mobo/ram with 11900k. There huge fps difference. For example, i play Apex Legends Lowest settings 1080p. And when i was on the ship, right before we jump, i was getting stable 190fps. But right now its around 120-160).
> 2- I was getting 36 ish latency on aida with same ram/mobo with 10850k. But 41 ns is not what i deserve. (Was using same clock/cache)
> 3-My ram training takes years. It doesnt train properly, i mean its take too long. I wonder if im missing/or doing something wrong. Maybe bios version? I flashed my both backup and main bios
> to the 2103 with using the button behind of mobo.
> 
> Would be really nice if you could help me, its been 5 days with this cpu but i couldnt even gaming once.
> 
> View attachment 2528172


Are you running Windows pro?

Check this off...


----------



## Lownage

Nizzen said:


> Looks like it's beating MAXXXX! tweaked 11900k even with singlerank memory


5,2/4,6 3866-13-14-14 2T 
@5,3 would be the same or better fps 









+ 1080p Ultra seems to be gpu limited as I get higher avg and lows in Medium to Ultra settings @ WQHD:


----------



## SuperMumrik

Lownage said:


> 5,2/4,6 3866-13-14-14 2T
> @5,3 would be the same or better fps


Except me and sugi was running with HD textures on.. Not sure if there's any difference though? 
5.3/4.8 is a clock reduction btw


----------



## cstkl1

Delpize said:


> This is my current setup. May i list my problems here?
> 
> 1- I was getting higher fps with 10850k and z490 apex. But rightnow my fps is lower with same mobo/ram with 11900k. There huge fps difference. For example, i play Apex Legends Lowest settings 1080p. And when i was on the ship, right before we jump, i was getting stable 190fps. But right now its around 120-160).
> 2- I was getting 36 ish latency on aida with same ram/mobo with 10850k. But 41 ns is not what i deserve. (Was using same clock/cache)
> 3-My ram training takes years. It doesnt train properly, i mean its take too long. I wonder if im missing/or doing something wrong. Maybe bios version? I flashed my both backup and main bios
> to the 2103 with using the button behind of mobo.
> 
> Would be really nice if you could help me, its been 5 days with this cpu but i couldnt even gaming once.
> 
> View attachment 2528172


load optimize
and
make sure flash via ezflash in bios to get the cpu microcode properly updated.

hmm dont play apex. so. not sure.

cpu oc
can u try sync 51
ringdown disable min/max 45
manual vcore 1.5
loadline 2

your rams is that stable? one of the _dd/dr pairs is pretty tight. 

z490 didnt get the performance boost lile z590. so not sure..


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Except me and sugi was running with HD textures on.. Not sure if there's any difference though?
> 5.3/4.8 is a clock reduction btw


Thanks guys for sharing your result!
It seems like 1080P ultra is limited by gpu. To see the CPU difference, we may have to set everything low at 1080P and compare.


----------



## Delpize

cstkl1 said:


> load optimize
> and
> make sure flash via ezflash in bios to get the cpu microcode properly updated.
> 
> hmm dont play apex. so. not sure.
> 
> cpu oc
> can u try sync 51
> ringdown disable min/max 45
> manual vcore 1.5
> loadline 2
> 
> your rams is that stable? one of the _dd/dr pairs is pretty tight.
> 
> z490 didnt get the performance boost lile z590. so not sure..


Trying right now, will let you know what happened. And ill make sure my rams are stable.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks guys for sharing your result!
> It seems like 1080P ultra is limited by gpu. To see the CPU difference, we may have to set everything low at 1080P and compare.


I just started a complete teardown of my system so might take me a while. Moving my parts over it to a praxis bench and a mo-ra to prepare for alder lake 😁

Anyway, point still stands; Reveiwers can't be trusted 😂


----------



## Arni90

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks guys for sharing your result!
> It seems like 1080P ultra is limited by gpu. To see the CPU difference, we may have to set everything low at 1080P and compare.


Lower Res scale is a better idea, that way you get the same draw calls.


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> I just started a complete teardown of my system so might take me a while. Moving my parts over it to a praxis bench and a mo-ra to prepare for alder lake 😁
> 
> Anyway, point still stands; Reveiwers can't be trusted 😂


z690 apex??

nice


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> z690 apex??


No Apex, no buy! 😎


----------



## Jwick

-


----------



## murenitu

I have the z490 formula with the bios 2103 and microcode 3c, would it be worth putting the bios beta 2403 that you have posted here?

change something?






ROG-MAXIMUS-XII-FORMULA-ASUS-2402.7z







drive.google.com


----------



## murenitu

correct me if i am wrong, but does the same 3c microcode have the beta 2402 bios that you have put for the formula xii?

So does it have any improvements to highlight or worth putting on the z490? with rocketlake?


----------



## murenitu

the changes that I have been able to find between the bios 2103 and the 2402 beta for the formula xii z490 are ...

the slinitDxe the Setup, and the firmwareperformancedxe!

I have no idea what changes there are or what they can cause ... any ideas?


----------



## tps3443

Talon2016 said:


> This thread has gone quiet lately. Everyone must be busy testing their ES 12900K and Z690s.


Ive been tweaking my 11900K like a crazy person. Just learning the CPU and platform. I’ve decided to keep the one I have.

The silicon isn’t the best in the world, but my cache and IMC is good enough. And the silicon is decent.

R23 is 5.2Ghz all core stable with 1.409-1.412V range at around 285 watts.

I can bump the cache/ring up to 47, and the voltage demand does increase, and the power consumption jumps up a little.

So far I can run a few different overclocks that work pretty well. I go back and forward depending on the day I suppose.

5.2Ghz all core, cache x47, and memory is at 3,882Mhz CL14-14-14-35 with my BCLK at 104Mhz.

^ This setting uses around 1.429-1.433V in R23 underload. (This is my common daily OC profile)

But I have tested (7) cores at 5.3Ghz (8) cores at 5.2Ghz. This does increase R23 load cpu voltage to 1.448V range. And power usage jumps to 318-320 watts. However, when running games and applications the CPU is almost always at 5.3Ghz, and I gain that IPC of 5.3Ghz in the games I play.

(Also a very stable setup) ^

My 11900K is getting delidded! So 5.3Ghz all
core will be a reality soon enough. Maybe even 5.4Ghz-5.5Ghz on some cores, that’s already possible for gaming etc.


----------



## tps3443

Delpize said:


> So guys, especially @cstkl1
> I went from 10850k to 11900k on z490 apex. However my fps is lower in games.(gear 1 3800 13-14-14-28 also my latenct was 35ns with 10850k same ram same mobo.now its 40ns)
> 
> . So I searched on the internet and people say its because of microcode. But i alrady use latest bios. Does anyone have an idea? How can i fix it. I was getting 190 stable fps with 10850k but now with the 11900k and. Z490 ıts dropping to 130?


I came from a 10900K to a 11900K. I was using a Evga Z490 Dark Kingpin motherboard. (Latest bios)

The experience wasn’t the best at all. The Z490 board kinda killed the experience. (Poor latency) (Poor bandwidth) it literally killed the 11900K all together. (However, the 11900K was still faster in my games than the prior Gen 10/20.

I have since upgraded to the Evga Z590 Dark, and I am glad that I gave the 11900K another chance.
Day and night difference! I have the 35NS latency, 63GBPS bandwidth, gear 1 mode, and the IPC gains I needed for high fps gaming.

Gaming performance saw a huge jump in performance. Also, I recommend “disabling” the (Enhanced C states)
And with only the Intel ABT enabled, you should see a pretty drastic gain in gaming as well.

Honestly any game with Rocket Lake 11900K has proven beneficial. The new 8/16 can do 95-100% what the old 10/20 could in anything multithreaded. And single thread performance has already shown how well a 11900K does.


----------



## cstkl1

murenitu said:


> correct me if i am wrong, but does the same 3c microcode have the beta 2402 bios that you have put for the formula xii?
> 
> So does it have any improvements to highlight or worth putting on the z490? with rocketlake?
> 
> View attachment 2528209


now we are at 4c

i am not sure at which microcode.. intel fixed the avx bug for physics timespy.

no need to disable

funny my daily stable can get no 1 in all 3
based on the submission date.. i think the microcode fix is the cause


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> now we are at 4c
> 
> i am not sure at which microcode.. intel fixed the avx bug for physics timespy.
> 
> no need to disable
> 
> funny my daily stable can get no 1 in all 3
> based on the submission date.. i think the microcode fix is the cause
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528241
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528243


PS: Noreng = @Arni90 

Nice job to both


----------



## Groove2013

Finally received my 4000 CL14 (2x16 GB) kit today.
Could boot like 10 times in a row in Windows desktop with 3974 MHz (3866 MHz + BCLK) 13-13-13-14-2 on my Apex 13.

If I switch sticks, it's 3970 MHz 13-13-13-14-2.

So both sticks are very close.


----------



## Lownage

Groove2013 said:


> Finally received my 4000 CL14 (2x16 GB) kit today.
> Could boot like 10 times in a row in Windows desktop with 3974 MHz (3866 MHz + BCLK) 13-13-13-14-2 on my Apex 13.
> 
> If I switch sticks, it's 3970 MHz 13-13-13-14-2.
> 
> So both sticks are very close.


Voltages?


----------



## murenitu

it seems that with the 2402 bios i finally ventured to try it out and i have been able to upgrade the memory on a z490 formula xii to 3733 gear 1 17/17/37 which i couldn't before.

I don't think it has improved performance at all but at least...I think it is almost the top for gear. 

One curious thing I noticed is that I almost never see the ring bus reach the 4,300mhz that it has to be set to stock.

normally on the desktop it fluctuates between 3.900mhz...4.100mhz is this normal? I have to check it in games.


----------



## sdmf74

The CACHE on my 11900k is driving me crazy. I overclocked my cpu to 52x 1.50v (adaptive) all core then overclocked my memory then I decided it was time to try to get as much out of the Cache as possible but trying to overclock it has been a nightmare!! (I realize that it wont give me large FPS gains in games or much higher scores in benchmarks) but I do not really want to just leave the cache at stock.

Here is the issue, about 75% of the time I boot into windows the cache shows as 41x (instead of what its set to in the bios) in HWinfo64, CPU-z etc it reads incorrectly and I dont know why? I spent the better part of yesterday trying to overclock the cache & occasionally getting WHEA Errors along with the incorrect cache reading in windows. I eventually thought it was doing that because my RAM was borderline stable but after setting RAM to stock settings I began getting the 41x readings again but without any WHEA errors. It even does it when set to 42x or 43x. Surely the cache is capable of being overclocked at least 100mhz!

I think I was getting WHEA errors cause my memory timings were barely stable but bumping the cache a couple hundred MZ made them slightly unstable, howerver that doesnt explain why Its still displaying 41x in windows monitoring programs with my RAM at stock speeds?

Has this happened to you guys? I have checked all the settings in the bios, Im stumped?


----------



## Groove2013

Lownage said:


> Voltages?


I think it was 1.275 V vcore (BIOS) (LLC 7) 4.0 GHz core/cache, 1.6 V vdimm and 1.45 V IO/SA (LLC 3).


----------



## ALSTER868

Groove2013 said:


> 1.6 V vdimm and 1.45 V IO/SA (LLC 3)


Do you intend to keep it for 24/7 use?


----------



## murenitu

I am with vcsa on 1.34v so I am also in danger!


----------



## Falkentyne

sdmf74 said:


> The CACHE on my 11900k is driving me crazy. I overclocked my cpu to 52x 1.50v (adaptive) all core then overclocked my memory then I decided it was time to try to get as much out of the Cache as possible but trying to overclock it has been a nightmare!! (I realize that it wont give me large FPS gains in games or much higher scores in benchmarks) but I do not really want to just leave the cache at stock.
> 
> Here is the issue, about 75% of the time I boot into windows the cache shows as 41x (instead of what its set to in the bios) in HWinfo64, CPU-z etc it reads incorrectly and I dont know why? I spent the better part of yesterday trying to overclock the cache & occasionally getting WHEA Errors along with the incorrect cache reading in windows. I eventually thought it was doing that because my RAM was borderline stable but after setting RAM to stock settings I began getting the 41x readings again but without any WHEA errors. It even does it when set to 42x or 43x. Surely the cache is capable of being overclocked at least 100mhz!
> 
> I think I was getting WHEA errors cause my memory timings were barely stable but bumping the cache a couple hundred MZ made them slightly unstable, howerver that doesnt explain why Its still displaying 41x in windows monitoring programs with my RAM at stock speeds?
> 
> Has this happened to you guys? I have checked all the settings in the bios, Im stumped?


You need to disable ring down bin.
Memory and cache are directly related.
Gear 1: has most effect from cache o/c with 1T command rate. 2T not so much.
Gear 2: uh....yeah.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> I think it was 1.275 V vcore (BIOS) (LLC 7) 4.0 GHz core/cache, 1.6 V vdimm and 1.45 V IO/SA (LLC 3).


Did you test fps in-game before and after?


----------



## murenitu

I deactivated ring down and indeed I already have the ringbus at the predefined stock speed of 4.3!


----------



## Groove2013

ALSTER868 said:


> Do you intend to keep it for 24/7 use?


Hope I won't have to keep them all at such values.
Just bumped them up and lowered CPU frequency to 4.0 GHz, to exclude the CPU, for now.


----------



## Geekounet

A quick update for the guys who has been bearing with me when i had my mobo issue i finally had it back from Gigabyte & they changed my socket for freeeeeeeeee yayyy, BTW i'm still not able to have a stable all cores @ 4.9Ghz with nice temps & voltages, i think it has more to do with the mobo then the silicon lottery, for the moment i'm living it stock with just a core voltage offset of -0.040 on XTU


----------



## murenitu

Did you bend the socket by mistake and process the warranty? and what have they done to you? or how was the story?


----------



## Geekounet

murenitu said:


> Did you bend the socket by mistake and process the warranty? and what have they done to you? or how was the story?


The case fell down and the socket completly broke, there was cracks in it and all the pins were not in the right place (direction) after that, the website i bought from accepted to take it as RMA and they told me that usually for the cases like that with a new mobo (used it few days only) Gigabyte accept to repair them for free, we tried then, it took 3 months but they fixed it and sent it back to the website who sent it back to me


----------



## musician

Geekounet said:


> A quick update for the guys who has been bearing with me when i had my mobo issue i finally had it back from Gigabyte & they changed my socket for freeeeeeeeee yayyy, BTW i'm still not able to have a stable all cores @ 4.9Ghz with nice temps & voltages, i think it has more to do with the mobo then the silicon lottery, for the moment i'm living it stock with just a core voltage offset of -0.040 on XTU


Hey I remember you. Well, thumbs up for the Gigabyte, and congratz to you


----------



## Geekounet

musician said:


> Hey I remember you. Well, thumbs up for the Gigabyte, and congratz to you


Yes, it's really a great move from them, everyone on the internet is raging & complaining about their RMA's & warranty support, first experience with them after 20 years being a customer so for me they're nailing it, thanks bro


----------



## Groove2013

My 4000 CL14 doesn't want to do 3866 13-13-13 or 13-14-14 in Karhu @ 1.61 vdimm and 1.45 sa/io.
Will see how high I can go with 14-14-14.


----------



## Groove2013

Lol, my 4000 CL14 can't even do 3866 14-14-14-34.
Only stock 14-15-15-35 works at 3866 and higher.

I will get rid of it and will keep my 3800 14-16-16-36 that also does 14-15-15-15 and that at 3960 MHz.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Lol, my 4000 CL14 can't even do 3866 14-14-14.
> Only stock 14-15-15 works at 3866 and higher.
> 
> I will get ride of it and will keep my 3800 14-16-16-36 that also does 14-15-15 and that at 3960 MHz.


Only my 3rd kit was able to run HCI memtest to 200% completion at 4000-14-14-15 at 1.55v and bench at 4040-14-14-15. I haven’t tested 14-14-14.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> Lol, my 4000 CL14 can't even do 3866 14-14-14-34.
> Only stock 14-15-15-35 works at 3866 and higher.
> 
> I will get rid of it and will keep my 3800 14-16-16-36 that also does 14-15-15-15 and that at 3960 MHz.


TRCD also depends heavily on temps and imc. Some CPUs might be able to run it tighter than others. IT is a possibility that your CPU just can't run TRCD14 at that speed or the dimms are too warm. But it could also be the ram too.


----------



## Groove2013

YaqY said:


> TRCD also depends heavily on temps and imc. Some CPUs might be able to run it tighter than others. IT is a possibility that your CPU just can't run TRCD14 at that speed or the dimms are too warm. But it could also be the ram too.


IMC is able to do >3900 and it errored just at 3866 and that not even few mins later at slightly above 30°C. So it's RAM.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> IMC is able to do >3900 and it errored just at 3866 and that not even few mins later at slightly above 30°C. So it's RAM.


Thats not the point i'm making, TRCD depends on ram quality as well as the imc. Even if you can do >3900 DR it might still not do TRCD 14 at 3866. Just pointing out you can't really rule out the ram sticks being the issue unless you have a set that does TRCD 14 on the same cpu. Even then if your old set did the same timings/freq then the upgrade makes no sense.


----------



## sblantipodi

guys I don't want to troll, I'm not into hardware recently but are there some advantages in going on a 11900K over an AMD Zen3?
Why choose 11900K over a Zen3?
Is there something where 11900K is faster then Zen3?


----------



## cstkl1

sblantipodi said:


> guys I don't want to troll, I'm not into hardware recently but are there some advantages in going on a 11900K over an AMD Zen3?
> Why choose 11900K over a Zen3?
> Is there something where 11900K is faster then Zen3?


11900k is stable
wait nov


----------



## sugi0lover

sblantipodi said:


> guys I don't want to troll, I'm not into hardware recently but are there some advantages in going on a 11900K over an AMD Zen3?
> Why choose 11900K over a Zen3?
> Is there something where 11900K is faster then Zen3?


There are two personel reasons I am using 11900K over Zen3.
1) Well overclocked 11th gen system (11900K 5.3Ghz + Cache 4.8Ghz + Gear1 DR 4000-CL13) is better for gaming than Zen3 for the most of the games I play.
2) As overclocking being my fun hobby, overclocking Zen3 is not as fun as overclocking 11900K + Ram.


----------



## domdtxdissar

sugi0lover said:


> There are two personel reasons I am using 11900K over Zen3.
> 1) Well overclocked 11th gen system (11900K 5.3Ghz + Cache 4.8Ghz + Gear1 4000-CL13) is better for gaming than Zen3 for the most of the games I play.
> 2) As overclocking being my fun hobby, overclocking Zen3 is not as fun as overclocking 11900K + Ram.



What games do you play ?  Do you have any benchmark-numbers for ingame CPU benchmarks if i wanted to compare ?
I also like to bench 😆


----------



## sugi0lover

domdtxdissar said:


> What games do you play ?  Do you have any benchmark numbers for ingame benchmarks if i wanted to compare ?
> I also like to bench 😆


1. I posted long time ago benching 8 games based on the real world resolution/option I was using 3440 x 1440, maximum setting.
,which was all core 5.3Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz, Gear1 SR 16G 3866-CL13, which is lower setting I am using right now.
I am currently playing Metro Exodus Enhanced.
2. I don't like just benching. I like to find the best stable OC setting I can use 24/7.


----------



## IronAge

Price for Z690 Apex around 560€, about 100€ more than for the Z590 Apex, Formula around 600€, Extreme around 900€. (WITHOUT VAT)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448233079059927043


----------



## Geekounet

Guys by the way, what's better Gear1 or Gear2 on a 11700k? or it depends on everyone chip or mobo or anything else?


----------



## Nizzen

Geekounet said:


> Guys by the way, what's better Gear1 or Gear2 on a 11700k? or it depends on everyone chip or mobo or anything else?


Gear 1 for gaming.
Gear 2 if you need the memory bandwidth for something strange


----------



## Geekounet

Nizzen said:


> Gear 1 for gaming.
> Gear 2 if you need the memory bandwidth for something strange


Thanks man


----------



## Geekounet

Btw here's the best i could get so far to complete a 10min run of cinebench r23 without any reboot before finnishing, 4.9Ghz all cores with static 1.350v...


----------



## domdtxdissar

sugi0lover said:


> 1) Well overclocked 11th gen system (11900K 5.3Ghz + Cache 4.8Ghz + Gear1 DR 4000-CL13) is better for gaming than Zen3 for the most of the games I play.





sugi0lover said:


> 1. I posted long time ago benching 8 games based on the real world resolution/option I was using 3440 x 1440, maximum setting.
> ,which was all core 5.3Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz, Gear1 SR 16G 3866-CL13, which is lower setting I am using right now.
> I am currently playing Metro Exodus Enhanced.
> 2. I don't like just benching. I like to find the best stable OC setting I can use 24/7.


So i did a comparison with my daily settings running on my everyday windows10 install vs the scores you have posted previously.
The only bench where it's somewhat close is in farcry6, well closer than the other benches atleast..

This is while running my Hydra 24/7 memory settings which is stable in everything i throw at it: (linpack, OCCT, prime95 and y-cruncher)
Hydra gamemode is around ~5ghz (which is nothing special)













Mistakes was made on the last screen.. (didnt notice r15 was hiding TM5 mainwindow)
Reason to show valid benchmate -> no trickery with windows timers



Spoiler: comparison












 VS








(benchmark was ran in 1080p fullscreen, minimized after to show my settings)










 VS








(same settings as you showed in previous forum post)











 VS








(not sure what settings you have as i don't speak the language, but i ran ultra preset settings minus v-sync turned off.. otherwise score was 144fps as monitor fps)









 VS











Is there some other games i'm not aware of, just wondering since you are so sure "well overclocked 11th gen system are the fastest" ?
I must also stress that this is also my everyday settings, if i really maxbench my system i should be around ~330 cpu game fps in SotTR with my new mem settings. (my old maxbench record was 314 fps)

_edit_
Hmm did you run 50% resolution scale in Horizon Zero Dawn? I ran with 100% resolution scale 😆
*edit2
replaced Farcry6 run with correct one with hd textures enabled for orange to orange comparison


----------



## Geekounet

Geekounet said:


> Btw here's the best i could get so far to complete a 10min run of cinebench r23 without any reboot before finnishing, 4.9Ghz all cores with static 1.350v...
> 
> View attachment 2528740
> View attachment 2528741


Temps while gaming...








[/QUOTE]


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Price for Z690 Apex around 560€, about 100€ more than for the Z590 Apex, Formula around 600€, Extreme around 900€. (WITHOUT VAT)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448233079059927043


board quality must have increased. and knowing shamino.. they will introduced something innovative as usual..

whats sad is. all reviewers will skip it cause they wont understand it
l


----------



## PhoenixMDA

domdtxdissar said:


> So i did a comparison with my daily settings running on my everyday windows10 install vs the scores you have posted previously.
> The only bench where it's somewhat close is in farcry6, well closer than the other benches atleast..
> 
> This is while running my Hydra 24/7 memory settings which is stable in everything i throw at it: (linpack, OCCT, prime95 and y-cruncher)
> Hydra gamemode is around ~5ghz (which is nothing special)
> View attachment 2528730
> View attachment 2528755
> 
> Mistakes was made on the last screen.. (didnt notice r15 was hiding TM5 mainwindow)
> Reason to show valid benchmate -> no trickery with windows timers
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528731
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528732
> 
> (benchmark was ran in 1080p fullscreen, minimized after to show my settings)
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528733
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528734
> 
> (same settings as you showed in previous forum post)
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528735
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528736
> 
> (not sure what settings you have as i don't speak the language, but i ran ultra preset settings minus v-sync turned off.. otherwise score was 144fps as monitor fps)
> 
> View attachment 2528737
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528754
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some other games i'm not aware of, just wondering since you are so sure "well overclocked 11th gen system are the fastest" ?
> I must also stress that this is also my everyday settings, if i really maxbench my system i should be around ~330 cpu game fps in SotTR with my new mem settings. (my old maxbench record was 314 fps)
> 
> _edit_
> Hmm did you run 50% resolution scale in Horizon Zero Dawn? I ran with 100% resolution scale 😆
> *edit2
> replaced Farcry6 run with correct one with hd textures enabled for orange to orange comparison


I really have to say also with mine [email protected] i lose in the most cases^^,
but I can beat you in FPS per Watt and CPU Temp.😂

I´m really interested what is alderlake and the ryzen with 3dcache able to do there.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> I think this one
> 
> View attachment 2526125
> 
> 
> View attachment 2526126


@Nizzen this is one ccx right. trying to reproduce it.


----------



## sugi0lover

domdtxdissar said:


> So i did a comparison with my daily settings running on my everyday windows10 install vs the scores you have posted previously.
> The only bench where it's somewhat close is in farcry6, well closer than the other benches atleast..
> 
> This is while running my Hydra 24/7 memory settings which is stable in everything i throw at it: (linpack, OCCT, prime95 and y-cruncher)
> Hydra gamemode is around ~5ghz (which is nothing special)
> View attachment 2528730
> View attachment 2528755
> 
> Mistakes was made on the last screen.. (didnt notice r15 was hiding TM5 mainwindow)
> Reason to show valid benchmate -> no trickery with windows timers
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528731
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528732
> 
> (benchmark was ran in 1080p fullscreen, minimized after to show my settings)
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528733
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528734
> 
> (same settings as you showed in previous forum post)
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2528735
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528736
> 
> (not sure what settings you have as i don't speak the language, but i ran ultra preset settings minus v-sync turned off.. otherwise score was 144fps as monitor fps)
> 
> View attachment 2528737
> 
> VS
> View attachment 2528754
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some other games i'm not aware of, just wondering since you are so sure "well overclocked 11th gen system are the fastest" ?
> I must also stress that this is also my everyday settings, if i really maxbench my system i should be around ~330 cpu game fps in SotTR with my new mem settings. (my old maxbench record was 314 fps)
> 
> _edit_
> Hmm did you run 50% resolution scale in Horizon Zero Dawn? I ran with 100% resolution scale 😆
> *edit2
> replaced Farcry6 run with correct one with hd textures enabled for orange to orange comparison


Good result!
First of all, I am not here to compete, I am here to share info, get help, be better together. 
Anyway, I said it was my personal reason. I usually compare my result with my friend's who has 5900x + 3800CL14 + RTX 3090 or benchmarks from popular website.
From those comparison, my overclocked 11900K showed the better result than those results I mentioned above.
Maybe your system is better than those.
Like pics below, I thought that oced 11900K + Ram was better than Ryzen. 
Maybe your well-oced Ryzen system can show better result. 
Anyway personally that's not important to me at all since the 12th gen is coming soon.
But it's always fun to see those good results from other spec or oc status. Thanks for sharing!

[5900X + 3800 CL14 + RTX 3090] 









[11900K + 3866 CL13 + RTX3090]


----------



## musician

sblantipodi said:


> guys I don't want to troll, I'm not into hardware recently but are there some advantages in going on a 11900K over an AMD Zen3?
> Why choose 11900K over a Zen3?
> Is there something where 11900K is faster then Zen3?


Get both! Really, I have both systems and I like them both. If I have to pick one, I would prefer 11900K because I like tuning ram and I like big numbers and I don´t want to get the Cezanne, as it would be generally step down in CPU performance and only PCIe 3.0. In most games I play, at 1440p, I am mostly VGA bound anyway and results are comparable between both of them.


----------



## domdtxdissar

sugi0lover said:


> Good result!
> First of all, I am not here to compete, I am here to share info, get help, be better together.
> Anyway, I said it was my personal reason. I usually compare my result with my friend's who has 5900x + 3800CL14 + RTX 3090 or benchmarks from popular website.
> From those comparison, my overclocked 11900K showed the better result than those results I mentioned above.
> Maybe your system is better than those.
> Like pics below, I thought that oced 11900K + Ram was better than Ryzen.
> Maybe your well-oced Ryzen system can show better result.
> Anyway personally that's not important to me at all since the 12th gen is coming soon.
> But it's always fun to see those good results from other spec or oc status. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> [5900X + 3800 CL14 + RTX 3090]
> View attachment 2528794
> 
> 
> [11900K + 3866 CL13 + RTX3090]
> View attachment 2528795


Yeah i also like tweak and overclock because i find it fun as a hobby for daily usage, not as a purely competition  That's also why i'm tweaking for stable 24/7 settings, not suicide hwbot settings.. I'm sure i have been running TestMem5 for many months now if i combine all the hours used stability testing 

Anyway, i think your friends 5900x setup is not properly tuned/optimized, and should not be used as a comparison to your *MAXXED 11900k setup*, which fastest ive ever seen(sick rig)
And in my opinion, you should also not use numbers from "popular website" to compare to your handtuned system.. 99% of Zen3 owners, yet alone websites cant really optimize their own systems i think hehe

Here is my result from metro exodus enhanced: (not that it matter, but after some testing i found out that rebar made close to no difference in this game)









Have been playing around this system close to 11 months now, so very much looking forward to the "5950xt 3dNow!" edition for something new to play with when it get released


----------



## musician

domdtxdissar said:


> Anyway, i think your friends 5900x setup is not properly tuned/optimized, and should not be used as a comparison to your *MAXXED 11900k setup*, which fastest ive ever seen(sick rig)
> And in my opinion, you should also not use numbers from "popular website" to compare to your handtuned system.. 99% of Zen3 owners, yet alone websites cant really optimize their own systems i think hehe


So you want to compare with an average Intel system, while yourself you have Zen3 with cl13, which only two people on this forum has the memory kit able to do it?
Nah man. Just accept the fact that the Ryzen can´t win it all.


----------



## domdtxdissar

musician said:


> So you want to compare with an average Intel system, while yourself you have Zen3 with cl13, which only two people on this forum has the memory kit able to do it?
> Nah man. Just accept the fact that the Ryzen can´t win it all.


???
What are you talking about man ? That's not at all what i said nor what i wrote, in fact it's the opposite 
I think a top tuned system should be compared against other top tuned systems.

If i have to take out the spoon, i think *sugi0lover's *insane 11900K 5.3Ghz + Cache 4.8Ghz + Gear1 4000-CL13 system should be compared to a comparably CL13 Zen3 system, if you are looking for a "fair game-comparison".

And this goes both ways, both *sugi0lover *and my system should not be compared against any other average "XMP techtuber" etc systems, but against other optimized systems its fine. (in my opinion atleast)

And please stop with the flame-bait war, it have no place here -> "Nah man. Just accept the fact that the Ryzen can´t win it all."


----------



## sugi0lover

domdtxdissar said:


> Yeah i also like tweak and overclock because i find it fun as a hobby for daily usage, not as a purely competition  That's also why i'm tweaking for stable 24/7 settings, not suicide hwbot settings.. I'm sure i have been running TestMem5 for many months now if i combine all the hours used stability testing
> 
> Anyway, i think your friends 5900x setup is not properly tuned/optimized, and should not be used as a comparison to your *MAXXED 11900k setup*, which fastest ive ever seen(sick rig)
> And in my opinion, you should also not use numbers from "popular website" to compare to your handtuned system.. 99% of Zen3 owners, yet alone websites cant really optimize their own systems i think hehe
> 
> Here is my result from metro exodus enhanced: (not that it matter, but after some testing i found out that rebar made close to no difference in this game)
> View attachment 2528824
> 
> 
> Have been playing around this system close to 11 months now, so very much looking forward to the "5950xt 3dNow!" edition for something new to play with when it get released


Thanks for sharing great result! I love to see those great bench result and find out what kind of system it is.
The usual result of my friend 5900x system is almost above average I have seen.
Your 5950x system is amazing high.

Anyway, the metro bench was done 5 months ago on gear 2. I have changed my setting from gear2 to gear 1 and recently ram kit from SR 16GB to DR 32GB.
Here is the result from my current setup.


----------



## domdtxdissar

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing great result! I love to see those great bench result and find out what kind of system it is.
> The usual result of my friend 5900x system is almost above average I have seen.
> Your 5950x system is amazing high.
> 
> Anyway, the metro bench was done 5 months ago on gear 2. I have changed my setting from gear2 to gear 1 and recently ram kit from SR 16GB to DR 32GB.
> Here is the result from my current setup.
> View attachment 2528827


Very nice result but Tesselation is off, no ?
Just uploaded wrong picture first, nevermind 

_edit_
btw is the metro exodus enhanced benchmark a cpu or gpu benchmark @ 2560*1440p with full ultra ray tracing at this point ? Think it mostly comes down to gpus with these settings 
Atleast my suprim x no chance to match that close to 146 average fps without starting to lowering temps and use "bench settings" instead of daily


----------



## sugi0lover

domdtxdissar said:


> Very nice result but Tesselation is off, no ?


Oops. Thanks for letting me know. I will change the optiona and update the original post.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen this is one ccx right. trying to reproduce it.


That's *domdtxdissar' s result. I think it was 2x CCX and maybe smt=off?*


----------



## musician

domdtxdissar said:


> And please stop with the flame-bait war, it have no place here -> "Nah man. Just accept the fact that the Ryzen can´t win it all."


Really? Is that flame-bait for you? Haha. You pure AMD guys are too fragile  Anyway, don't look for flame where there is none.


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> board quality must have increased. and knowing shamino.. they will introduced something innovative as usual..


Intel already does for them, so it is a welcome oppurtunity to raise prices which they don't let pass by.

hardened requirements blahblah, semiconductor shortness blahblah, guess you get the idea.


----------



## napata

domdtxdissar said:


> btw is the metro exodus enhanced benchmark a cpu or gpu benchmark @ 2560*1440p with full ultra ray tracing at this point ? Think it mostly comes down to gpus with these settings
> Atleast my suprim x no chance to match that close to 146 average fps without starting to lowering temps and use "bench settings" instead of daily


It's on DLSS balanced though. Not sure what the actual res is for that. 1080p? Still it's probably somewhat GPU bottlenecked as it's a very GPU intensive game.

Rather than averages 1% lows are a better comparison imo for CPU performance and are still influenced by CPU here, given the 35% difference in performance with the same GPU for the 1%s. That why I think the 132 fps average result also has better performance than your 142fps result. It's a case of very high fps on the upper end pushing up the average while having worse 1%s.


----------



## o1dschoo1

musician said:


> So you want to compare with an average Intel system, while yourself you have Zen3 with cl13, which only two people on this forum has the memory kit able to do it?
> Nah man. Just accept the fact that the Ryzen can´t win it all.


I wouldnt say that. Hes probably pushing some serious voltage through that kit. Easily north of 1.55


----------



## Groove2013

Apparently higher vdimm voltage allows lower/better tRFC value.


----------



## domdtxdissar

o1dschoo1 said:


> I wouldnt say that. Hes probably pushing some serious voltage through that kit. Easily north of 1.55


Hmmz ?











o1dschoo1 said:


> Cl14 4k kit im guessing?


Yes, also in screenshot


----------



## o1dschoo1

domdtxdissar said:


> Hmmz ?
> View attachment 2528868


Cl14 4k kit im guessing?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> Hmmz ?
> View attachment 2528868
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, also in screenshot
> View attachment 2528870


Hmm, I have an 11900K, 3090, and 4000c14 dual rank kit. Maybe I’ll benchmark this weekend.


----------



## Geekounet

What's the max safe voltage for the 11th generation guys? can't really find an answer, i read that even 1.5 is safe on this generation (it used to be 1.4) is that true?


----------



## o1dschoo1

Geekounet said:


> What's the max safe voltage for the 11th generation guys? can't really find an answer, i read that even 1.5 is safe on this generation (it used to be 1.4) is that true?


Rofl no way 1.5 is safe on 14nm... Maybe on cascade or ln2


----------



## Geekounet

o1dschoo1 said:


> Rofl no way 1.5 is safe on 14nm... Maybe on cascade or ln2


So still 1.4v?


----------



## o1dschoo1

Geekounet said:


> So still 1.4v?


Yea id say so. And thats with really good cooling


----------



## Geekounet

Okay, gonna stay @4.9Ghz with fixed 1.350v then, thanks


----------



## Falkentyne

Geekounet said:


> What's the max safe voltage for the 11th generation guys? can't really find an answer, i read that even 1.5 is safe on this generation (it used to be 1.4) is that true?


Honestly I'd try to stay below 1.3v load at 200 amps current pull and below 1.45v at idle (no load).
Absolute max ratings are confusing now since AC Loadline isn't as predictable anymore like it was on 9th gen, and both CML and RKL having some sort of +200mv VID offset where it can "theoretically" request 1.7v VID at NO CURRENT and 1.5v load on a single core or something. (I've seen VID prediction at 1.65v at idle on some low SP chips).

Really such things are not that important anymore. If you can't cool it below 90C, it means either your cooling isn't suitable or the vcore is too high.


----------



## Geekounet

Falkentyne said:


> Honestly I'd try to stay below 1.3v load at 200 amps current pull and below 1.45v at idle (no load).
> Absolute max ratings are confusing now since AC Loadline isn't as predictable anymore like it was on 9th gen, and both CML and RKL having some sort of +200mv VID offset where it can "theoretically" request 1.7v VID at NO CURRENT and 1.5v load on a single core or something. (I've seen VID prediction at 1.65v at idle on some low SP chips).
> 
> Really such things are not that important anymore. If you can't cool it below 90C, it means either your cooling isn't suitable or the vcore is too high.


Thanks


----------



## domdtxdissar

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing great result! I love to see those great bench result and find out what kind of system it is.
> The usual result of my friend 5900x system is almost above average I have seen.
> Your 5950x system is amazing high.
> 
> Anyway, the metro bench was done 5 months ago on gear 2. I have changed my setting from gear2 to gear 1 and recently ram kit from SR 16GB to DR 32GB.
> Here is the result from my current setup.
> View attachment 2528827


*mrthanhnguyen *shared some game benches from his sick 10900k, which is also the fastest daily 24/7 Comet Lake i have seen 


http://imgur.com/a/dSHgSG3

I'm wondering how close a top tuned gen10 is against a top tuned gen10.
Is it possible that you run regular metro and f1 at same settings for a comparison ?

I have done my zen3 benches here:


http://imgur.com/a/4K9Zob0

Then we would also have a comparison ready for when Alder lake and Zen3 v-cache get released


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> *mrthanhnguyen *shared some game benches from his sick 10900k, which is also the fastest daily 24/7 Comet Lake i have seen
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/dSHgSG3
> 
> I'm wondering how close a top tuned gen10 is against a top tuned gen10.
> Is it possible that you run regular metro and f1 at same settings for a comparison ?
> 
> I have done my zen3 benches here:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/4K9Zob0
> 
> Then we would also have a comparison ready for when Alder lake and Zen3 v-cache get released


Here is my top tuned 11900K at 1080p lowest. The question is whether Alder Lake can match the 5950X in SoTR. Regardless, I would take the Intel stability and single core performance any day. When games are heavily single threaded, they are not maxing out at 300 fps, they are maxing out at 80-90 fps where every frame counts.


----------



## 2500k_2

domdtxdissar said:


> which is also the fastest daily 24/7 Comet Lake i have seen











because of the large cache, ryzen draws a lot of frames in scenes where simple geometry (mountain or forest) Therefore, the average FPS is often overestimated at ryzen because of 2 and the beginning of 3 scenes.
The 95 cpu game will be indicative. since it is he who shows the FPS in the most difficult place of the benchmark - the pataya market.


----------



## sdmf74

Wondering if anybody can help me, I was just getting a 52x 45x cache dialed in on my 11900k. Everything seemed stable no errors in stability tests but I noticed something I have never seen before I am getting 1 WHEA error in the event viewer & it occurs right at the time of every restart. So if my pc restarts at 4pm it will show one whea error at that time. Event id 1, 0x8000000000000002.

I have tried raising voltages, lowering core ratio, re-enabling ring down bin. Setting ram OC back to xmp etc but nothing seems to resolve that WHEA error at boot. Any suggestions? Has this happened to you guys?


----------



## 2500k_2

sdmf74 said:


> I am getting 1 WHEA error


It's impossible. the rocket lake architecture is the most stable. You are either stable or bsod.
You can provide a screenshot of the whea error.


----------



## sdmf74

Nope No bsod just 1 lonely WHEA error at the same time as every reboot!

Question: Also Are you guys Disabling the ring down bin? This feature is new to me. I disabled it cause my cache kept occasionally reading 41x in HWinfo64 even when I overclocked the cache to 42x,43,44, or 45 etc. Sometimes it would show what is set in bios & other times it shows 41x even when its set to 45x and is at load. I dont understand?


----------



## Groove2013

....


----------



## domdtxdissar

0451 said:


> Here is my top tuned 11900K at 1080p lowest. The question is whether Alder Lake can match the 5950X in SoTR. Regardless, I would take the Intel stability and single core performance any day. When games are heavily single threaded, they are not maxing out at 300 fps, they are maxing out at 80-90 fps where every frame counts.
> 
> View attachment 2528950


Wow, just as fast, very nice 

Could you run the other games also so we have a complete comparison ? 


2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2528961
> 
> because of the large cache, ryzen draws a lot of frames in scenes where simple geometry (mountain or forest) Therefore, the average FPS is often overestimated at ryzen because of 2 and the beginning of 3 scenes.
> The 95 cpu game will be indicative. since it is he who shows the FPS in the most difficult place of the benchmark - the pataya market.


Is that a daily 24/7 system ? If so, also very impressive.
I know *mrthanhnguyen *was dailying his system atleast.. This is among the most impressive i saw from that rig:







And i also agree we should bench more then just one game (SotTR) to get a better comparison, and that's why I'm asking for more games, but the 95% difference between these two SotTR screenshots are 227 vs 225, hardly a big difference i would say (?) Sadly i'm not sure how the *720p* vs *1080p* resolution also affects the scores either..


----------



## sugi0lover

My SP104 11900K is gone to my friend who wanted it so badly, so go back to my old SP89 11900K.
Anyway, my next goal of Ram OC was to surpass 4000Mhz and it's done even though only 10Mhz higher than 4000Mhz.


CPU : 11900K (SP89)
M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
Memory OC : 4010Mhz-13-14-14-28-224-2T (1:1, Gear1)
Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.620v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.52v / Mem OC IO 1.420v / Vppddr 2.485v


----------



## PhoenixMDA

domdtxdissar said:


> Wow, just as fast, very nice
> 
> Could you run the other games also so we have a complete comparison ?
> 
> Is that a daily 24/7 system ? If so, also very impressive.
> I know *mrthanhnguyen *was dailying his system atleast.. This is among the most impressive i saw from that rig:
> View attachment 2528978
> 
> And i also agree we should bench more then just one game (SotTR) to get a better comparison, and that's why I'm asking for more games, but the 95% difference between these two SotTR screenshots are 227 vs 225, hardly a big difference i would say (?) Sadly i'm not sure how the *720p* vs *1080p* resolution also affects the scores either..


That is not compare able take a look to the windows version, the next is the used GFX and driver version.All of you 3 use other win versions^^.


----------



## centvalny

Tightest 5100 B-die


----------



## geriatricpollywog

centvalny said:


> Tightest 5100 B-die
> 
> View attachment 2529054


 Nice!

_pretends to know what a good Geeekbench score is_


----------



## cx-ray

sdmf74 said:


> I am getting 1 WHEA error in the event viewer & it occurs right at the time of every restart. So if my pc restarts at 4pm it will show one whea error at that time. Event id 1, 0x8000000000000002.
> 
> I have tried raising voltages, lowering core ratio, re-enabling ring down bin. Setting ram OC back to xmp etc but nothing seems to resolve that WHEA error at boot. Any suggestions? Has this happened to you guys?


I've seen this happen several times. In my case I suspect it's related to booting into the BIOS using recovery mode (Safe Boot button) after every gets stuck. 

Afterward, I get the same WHEA error whenever I reboot. I don't know what the source of the error is. I first noticed this with UEFI 1102, but can't be sure if that's when the error first occurred. The only way I've found so far to get rid of it is to reset CMOS and redo your settings or load them from a known good configuration.


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Tightest 5100 B-die
> 
> View attachment 2529054


Nice, but where is Aida64 memory benchmark


----------



## Falkentyne

cx-ray said:


> I've seen this happen several times. In my case I suspect it's related to booting into the BIOS using recovery mode (Safe Boot button) after every gets stuck.
> 
> Afterward, I get the same WHEA error whenever I reboot. I don't know what the source of the error is. I first noticed this with UEFI 1102, but can't be sure if that's when the error first occurred. The only way I've found so far to get rid of it is to reset CMOS and redo your settings or load them from a known good configuration.


I've seen that error too. Definitely related to memory overclocking. It seems to happen either if windows fails to load or you get some other crash somewhere. Seems to show the error during windows load but doesn't affect anything. Resetting and loading a saved profile does indeed make it go away.


----------



## cstkl1

sdmf74 said:


> Nope No bsod just 1 lonely WHEA error at the same time as every reboot!
> 
> Question: Also Are you guys Disabling the ring down bin? This feature is new to me. I disabled it cause my cache kept occasionally reading 41x in HWinfo64 even when I overclocked the cache to 42x,43,44, or 45 etc. Sometimes it would show what is set in bios & other times it shows 41x even when its set to 45x and is at load. I dont understand?
> View attachment 2528962


its because of algos, etc related to cache oc.

i dont have any.

this whea has nothing to do during the run of windows. normally its when comp restart etc.

LLC can solve it. rkl cache has high transient when it initialize afaik.
hence its keenel power whea..

afaik 10900k has every whea including this one


----------



## sugi0lover

I moved to Win 11, and ran some 3DMark test.

[CPU Profile]
I scored 0 in CPU Profile


















[Time SPY CPU Test]








I scored 0 in Time Spy Custom


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> I moved to Win 11, and ran some 3DMark test.
> 
> [CPU Profile]
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> View attachment 2529079
> 
> 
> View attachment 2529082
> 
> 
> [Time SPY CPU Test]
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> View attachment 2529081


Not bad.

Have you tried disabling HT?


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Not bad.
> 
> Have you tried disabling HT?
> 
> View attachment 2529083


Thanks, and I haven't tried HT off.


----------



## MoonPatrol

sugi0lover said:


> My SP104 11900K is gone to my friend who wanted it so badly, so go back to my old SP89 11900K.
> Anyway, my next goal of Ram OC was to surpass 4000Mhz and it's done even though only 10Mhz higher than 4000Mhz.
> 
> 
> CPU : 11900K (SP89)
> M/B : ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX (BIOS : 1102)
> Memory : G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB (2 x 16GB) (F4-4000C14D-32GTRG)
> Memory OC : 4010Mhz-13-14-14-28-224-2T (1:1, Gear1)
> Voltages (Bios) : RAM 1.620v / IO 1.050v / SA 1.52v / Mem OC IO 1.420v / Vppddr 2.485v
> 
> View attachment 2528982


Hi this is sweet! Please, could you share CMO BIOS file?


----------



## sugi0lover

MoonPatrol said:


> Hi this is sweet! Please, could you share CMO BIOS file?


No problem!
4010_Gear1_M13A.CMO


----------



## Geekounet

0451 said:


> Not bad.
> 
> Have you tried disabling HT?
> 
> View attachment 2529083


BTW is it important to disable HT for OC? no loss of performance by doing so?


----------



## Geekounet

With H.T disabled i'm able to get 5.1Ghz all cores with 1.350V static but i get a lower score in cinebench, my previous score with H.T enabled @4.9Ghz all cores with 1.350V was 15487pts


----------



## Delpize

Please can someone help me? This cant be true. Why my latency is so high? It should be way lower but why? What am i missing? Btw i thhought PPD works on z590 but no i guess, please, smilar timings has like 36ns


----------



## Arni90

Delpize said:


> Please can someone help me? This cant be true. Why my latency is so high? It should be way lower but why? What am i missing? Btw i thhought PPD works on z590 but no i guess, please, smilar timings has like 36ns


AIDA64 numbers look correct, the ringbus and L3 cache has a higher latency in terms of clock cycles on Rocket Lake than Comet Lake.

I think this is the fifth time you've asked the same question now, and you've got the same answer. Do you expect it to change if you ask a sixth, seventh, or tenth time?


----------



## murenitu

That latency is fine for that speed and 2 dims of 16gb I don't know what else you want!

you should pass at least% 2000 in memhci test


----------



## Delpize

@Arni90 @murenitu 

Thank you for your answers. Sorry for asking a lot ... i have noone my around to ask so thats why im asking here ...

Anyway thank you again..


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2528961
> 
> because of the large cache, ryzen draws a lot of frames in scenes where simple geometry (mountain or forest) Therefore, the average FPS is often overestimated at ryzen because of 2 and the beginning of 3 scenes.
> The 95 cpu game will be indicative. since it is he who shows the FPS in the most difficult place of the benchmark - the pataya market.


That is some epic Min fps! II want to see the memorysettings <3


----------



## jayfkay

@Delpize 
did you manage to sort out your Apex fps?
cuz I was considering a 11700k for Apex 1080p low gaming, but your posts made me reconsider. could anyone else chime in / "benchmark" apex (play one game and see how low it drops) real quick perhaps?


----------



## Nizzen

jayfkay said:


> @Delpize
> did you manage to sort out your Apex fps?
> cuz I was considering a 11700k for Apex 1080p low gaming, but your posts made me reconsider. could anyone else chime in / "benchmark" apex (play one game and see how low it drops) real quick perhaps?


I got 180min fps on the worst spot in the game. Uninstalled the game, because I don't play it.
Used 11700k and 3733c14 memory. Tested all low in 1080p Mostly over 200fps


----------



## Arni90

jayfkay said:


> @Delpize
> did you manage to sort out your Apex fps?
> cuz I was considering a 11700k for Apex 1080p low gaming, but your posts made me reconsider. could anyone else chime in / "benchmark" apex (play one game and see how low it drops) real quick perhaps?


For any kind of competitive gaming, get a 10900K or 5800X, don't waste time on Rocket Lake


----------



## musician

Arni90 said:


> For any kind of competitive gaming, get a 10900K or 5800X, don't waste time on Rocket Lake


For any kind of competitive gaming you need stability at 1st. Comet Lake is not optimal, nor is 5000X.


----------



## musician

jayfkay said:


> @Delpize
> did you manage to sort out your Apex fps?
> cuz I was considering a 11700k for Apex 1080p low gaming, but your posts made me reconsider. could anyone else chime in / "benchmark" apex (play one game and see how low it drops) real quick perhaps?


Do not listen that guy, he is confused and biased by the latency too much. Get either 11700K or wait for Alder Lake, it´s coming really soon.
edit: besides 11700K is better than 5800X anyway.
Ryzen 7 5800X vs Core i7-11700K for Gaming - How Many FPS


----------



## geriatricpollywog

musician said:


> For any kind of competitive gaming you need stability at 1st. Comet Lake is not optimal, nor is 5000X.





musician said:


> Do not listen that guy, he is confused and biased by the latency too much. Get either 11700K or wait for Alder Lake, it´s coming really soon.
> edit: besides 11700K is better than 5800X anyway.
> Ryzen 7 5800X vs Core i7-11700K for Gaming - How Many FPS


True. There are some reasons to get a 5800X but competitive gaming isn't one of them.

Lower power consumption and a better selection of ITX boards are the only 2 I can think of.


----------



## jayfkay

Thanks for the info guys. I might wait and check out Alder Lake. I could imagine that CPU could strive with a strong B-Die overclock which is probably gonna be hard to beat by DDR5 at first


----------



## sugi0lover

jayfkay said:


> Thanks for the info guys. I might wait and check out Alder Lake. I could imagine that CPU could strive with a strong B-Die overclock which is probably gonna be hard to beat by DDR5 at first


It is rumored...










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445979938809475073


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> For any kind of competitive gaming, get a 10900K or 5800X, don't waste time on Rocket Lake


Rocket Lake is just fine.
Not everything revolves around 10900k and 4000 mhz 1T 14/14/14/34 @ 1.65v @ 32ns you know.

I've yet to have a single parity error on a 11900k.


----------



## Delpize

jayfkay said:


> @Delpize
> did you manage to sort out your Apex fps?
> cuz I was considering a 11700k for Apex 1080p low gaming, but your posts made me reconsider. could anyone else chime in / "benchmark" apex (play one game and see how low it drops) real quick perhaps?


I was using z490 apex and 11900k. Unfortonetely my fps was lower than z490 10900k. So now im using z590 apex for 11900k and my fps is fixed.


----------



## Delpize

musician said:


> Do not listen that guy, he is confused and biased by the latency too much. Get either 11700K or wait for Alder Lake, it´s coming really soon.
> edit: besides 11700K is better than 5800X anyway.
> Ryzen 7 5800X vs Core i7-11700K for Gaming - How Many FPS


Im not latency addicted. Im just asking, searching to get performance that i deserve from my components that i paid a lot of money. Thats all..


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> It is rumored...
> View attachment 2529169
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445979938809475073


curious how would he know. did he/she/it take a asus prime z690 mobo with ddr4 3600 ( since they all dont know how to run 3866c13.. 1T)
and compared it with what ram since nobody afaik knows which ram is good in ddr5?


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> Rocket Lake is just fine.
> Not everything revolves around 10900k and 4000 mhz 1T 14/14/14/34 @ 1.65v @ 32ns you know.
> 
> I've yet to have a single parity error on a 11900k.


It's not about the meaningless AIDA64 numbers, they don't represent anything other than AIDA64. The problem is that most games perform better on a 10900K, and the 10900K has more overclocking headroom to begin with.

And if you're not going to overclock memory, then getting anything other than a Ryzen 5000 chip doesn't make sense. Mostly because the huge L3 cache mitigates the need for fast memory in games, and they have a lot more cores if you want multithreaded performance.


----------



## 2500k_2

Faster rocket lake or comet lake, risen or intel, it doesn't matter. After 2 weeks, alderlake comes out and 95 percent of people in this forum thread will immediately change the platform to lga 1700.
Someone is probably already testing an engineering sample (cstkl1 mby xD)

I very much doubt that most will continue to use ddr4. Unfortunately (or vice versa) motherboards in the upper price range will be exclusively ddr5 (pic 1). And most will buy them. And they will use a higher frequency of ddr5 above 6400 (100GB / s is a very good bonus) in gear 2.


Spoiler: pic 1


----------



## napata

Arni90 said:


> And if you're not going to overclock memory, then getting anything other than a Ryzen 5000 chip doesn't make sense. Mostly because the huge L3 cache mitigates the need for fast memory in games, and they have a lot more cores if you want multithreaded performance.


Although it's close, at stock RL is actually the best CPU to get unless you go for a 5950x. PCgameshardware is one of the few places that test at low res but high settings, a case where the L3 can't mitigate the need for fast memory enough. Note they test CPUs within spec so Intel is somewhat disadvantaged here as their CPUs are locked to 125W. Though in most games that doesn't matter too much at stock.

Drop everything to low and Zen 3 will pull ahead, but that's just not how most people use their CPU. That's what stacked cache is supposed to fix. Put enough L3 on Zen 3 and most likely you'll get performance profiles similar to CS:GO in most games where they beat current Intel CPUs by 10-20%.


----------



## jayfkay

2500k_2 said:


> I very much doubt that most will continue to use ddr4. Unfortunately (or vice versa) motherboards in the upper price range will be exclusively ddr5


the question is for overclockable ddr5 kits. do you think there will be any available at release?


----------



## 2500k_2

jayfkay said:


> the question is for overclockable ddr5 kits. do you think there will be any available at release?


absolutely. Memory manufacturers want to earn as much as processor and motherboard manufacturers. And no one will buy a cheap jedec hynix to an asus apex 14 for 650 euros. I think the majority will not take risks and will take g.skill samsung 6400 cl 36 / These 2 words(g.skill and samsung) will inspire more confidence in the ddr5 buyer.


Spoiler: 6400 cl 36


----------



## jayfkay

2500k_2 said:


> g.skill samsung 6400 cl 36


oh yeah. If you could clock those to like 7200 cl34 you would already be getting close to ddr4 territory


----------



## 2500k_2

jayfkay said:


> 7200 cl34


My friend, I will be glad to be mistaken about what I will write now, but ...
Perhaps such low timings will not be achievable from ddr5.
Moreover, they will not save you from high latency.
High latency can be an architectural feature of the ddr5 and the memory controller.
BL 16 will bring an increase in basic timings such as ccd, rrd_s, tFaw.
I think Low latency on ddr5 is around 50 ns from all configured timings.
The strength of ddr5 is not latency, but bandwidth. We are given a fake 4 channel, 4x 32 bit, but it works.
Also, do not forget about the gear2 and gear 4 modes, which will devour some of the performance. Therefore, some insiders write that ddr5 Gear 2> ddr 4 Gear 1 only from a frequency of 6400 and above.
The frequency of the memory controller also did not change from the rocketlake, so I admit that the boundary will be 1933 MHz (at safe voltages). Therefore, I assume that the max frequency in gear 2 will be 1933 * 2 * 2 = 7733. Next, we will need to turn on Gear 4 (which will again eat up latency and performance a lot) And the next window of good performance will be above 10000 (or even higher).

I will repeat, but I will be glad to be mistaken in the words that I wrote. This is my personal opinion, I do not impose it on anyone.


----------



## domdtxdissar

PhoenixMDA said:


> That is not compare able take a look to the windows version, the next is the used GFX and driver version.All of you 3 use other win versions^^.


Here you go, all new gamelist with all benches done on the very same windows install and same drivers:


http://imgur.com/a/iu0ZdtE

Have done a new SotR bench 339 average cpu fps @ daily 24/7 settings.


2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2528961
> 
> because of the large cache, ryzen draws a lot of frames in scenes where simple geometry (mountain or forest) Therefore, the average FPS is often overestimated at ryzen because of 2 and the beginning of 3 scenes.
> The 95 cpu game will be indicative. since it is he who shows the FPS in the most difficult place of the benchmark - the pataya market.


Here you go, i recorded one run so you can judge the "low fps" in the most difficult places yourself:





Minimum fps is only 22 fps higher vs the fastest Comet Lake
95% fps is only 19 fps higher vs the fastest Comet Lake
Corrected numbers: Fastest Comet Lake is ~3% faster in min fps and ~2% faster in 95%, in same game version.

And since i know you like lower resolution, i also did a 720p run for you 😆








All benchmarks done in windows10
Excited to see what Alder lake and its memory controller can do 

_edit_
Seems there was a new patch for SotTR releasted yesterday. Don't know how/if this affects performance!

_edit2_
Can anyone test if this new patch affect gen10/11 scores ?


----------



## Clausewitz

What BIOS is everyone on? The official support sites for MAXIMUS XIIIs are still 1007 bios.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Clausewitz said:


> What BIOS is everyone on? The official support sites for MAXIMUS XIIIs are still 1007 bios.


I’m on bios revision 1.29 from July. The original bios works great too.




domdtxdissar said:


> Here you go, all new gamelist with all benches done on the very same windows install and same drivers:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/iu0ZdtE
> 
> Have done a new SotR bench 339 average cpu fps @ daily 24/7 settings.
> 
> Here you go, i recorded one run so you can judge the "low fps" in the most difficult place yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minimum fps is only 22 fps higher on zen3 vs the fastest Comet Lake
> 95% fps is only 19 fps higher on zen3 vs the fastest Comet Lake
> And since i know you like lower resolution, i also did a 720p run for you 😆
> View attachment 2529218
> 
> All benchmarks done in windows10
> Excited to see what Alder lake and its memory controller can do


FPS looks good, but I heard those Risens have WHEA parity errors. No thanks!


----------



## PhoenixMDA

domdtxdissar said:


> Here you go, all new gamelist with all benches done on the very same windows install and same drivers:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/iu0ZdtE
> 
> Have done a new SotR bench 339 average cpu fps @ daily 24/7 settings.
> 
> Here you go, i recorded one run so you can judge the "low fps" in the most difficult places yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minimum fps is only 22 fps higher vs the fastest Comet Lake
> 95% fps is only 19 fps higher vs the fastest Comet Lake
> Corrected numbers: Fastest Comet Lake is ~3% faster in min fps and ~2% faster in 95%, in same game version.
> 
> And since i know you like lower resolution, i also did a 720p run for you 😆
> 
> View attachment 2529218
> 
> All benchmarks done in windows10
> Excited to see what Alder lake and its memory controller can do
> 
> _edit_
> Seems there was a new patch for SotTR releasted yesterday. Don't know how/if this affects performance!


That is what i mean, alone the driver+ version make a difference, you have have a really good result that i cant beat with my 10900K,
but i must say in your 720p screen only at the min FPS i have a touch more as you... 😂 😜

I think it´s playable also on CML^^(5,5Ghz, [email protected] HT OFF), no benchsetting
Perhap´s is anyone faster on intel i don´t know it.🤷‍♂️









P.S.
I´m also interested what Zen3 with 3DCache is able to do, there it´s better possible to use my selected memory and i don´t like Win11.


----------



## GamerGGG

What do you guys think of this ram oc and can i lower RTLs to 58-59 by any chance?Does msi have any option for it?
I have 11700k with 4400cl17 2x16 ripjaws kit took the heatsinks off.Aida around 38ns currently
Thanks for help


----------



## MoonPatrol

Clausewitz said:


> What BIOS is everyone on? The official support sites for MAXIMUS XIIIs are still 1007 bios.


I think most of us are on 1102.


ROG Maximus XIII Apex


----------



## geriatricpollywog

GamerGGG said:


> What do you guys think of this ram oc and can i lower RTLs to 58-59 by any chance?Does msi have any option for it?
> I have 11700k with 4400cl17 2x16 ripjaws kit took the heatsinks off.Aida around 38ns currently
> Thanks for help
> View attachment 2529236


That’s really good. I don’t know if you can lower RTL on MSI but you can on ASRock. Try lowering tRDWR to 11-11-12-12 from 15-15-15-15.

What is your memory voltage and SA? Can you run 3866 or higher 14-15-15?


----------



## GamerGGG

0451 said:


> That’s really good. I don’t know if you can lower RTL on MSI but you can on ASRock. Try lowering tRDWR to 11-11-12-12 from 15-15-15-15.
> 
> What is your memory voltage and SA? Can you run 3866 or higher 14-15-15?


iirc I have 1.5 SA and 1.050 io and 1.42 io2 vdram is 1.55 and I have tested both channels before channel B can reach to 4068mhz with 1 kit channel A can only do 103-103.5 bclk max so I did 102 bclk.


----------



## GamerGGG

GamerGGG said:


> iirc I have 1.5 SA and 1.050 io and 1.42 io2 vdram is 1.55 and I have tested both channels before channel B can reach to 4068mhz with 1 kit channel A can only do 103-103.5 bclk max so I did 102 bclk.


----------



## GamerGGG

I think 3845 was max for both dimm occupied or 3866 was possible but not stable tested at day 1 might need some testing again


----------



## 2500k_2

GamerGGG said:


> Does msi have any option for it?


msi cl13 = real cl14
so RTL should be from cl14
try my timings


----------



## sugi0lover

jayfkay said:


> the question is for overclockable ddr5 kits. do you think there will be any available at release?


DDR5-6400 CL36-36-36-76 16GBx2 will be available by Nov. 2021.


https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1634179023/G.SKILL-Announces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

GamerGGG said:


> I think 3845 was max for both dimm occupied or 3866 was possible but not stable tested at day 1 might need some testing again



Single dimm ChB needs to be over 4133 to ensure ChA can run 3866 easily.


----------



## morph.

Haven't been following in a while due to busy times with a newborn. Just checking whats the latest/best micro code at the moment for 11900k? 3C or is there something newer?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

morph. said:


> Haven't been following in a while due to busy times with a newborn. Just checking whats the latest/best micro code at the moment for 11900k? 3C or is there something newer?


Something like 40


----------



## morph.

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Something like 40


40?

Hrmm this is what I have at the moment not sure where to acquire the latest etc as well.


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> 40?
> 
> Hrmm this is what I have at the moment not sure where to acquire the latest etc as well.
> 
> View attachment 2529262


4C is the newest (at least on Asus Bios). Unless there's some newer microcode on the github repository that you would have to manually patch and flash.

3C is garbage. has problems in SOTTR and other games in FPS especially with rebar enabled.

Seems there's a 50 out. Anyone want to try it?









CPUMicrocodes/cpuA0671_plat02_ver00000050_2021-08-29_PRD_04B1CE99.bin at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes


Intel, AMD, VIA & Freescale CPU Microcode Repositories - CPUMicrocodes/cpuA0671_plat02_ver00000050_2021-08-29_PRD_04B1CE99.bin at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes




github.com













CPUMicrocodes/Intel at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes


Intel, AMD, VIA & Freescale CPU Microcode Repositories - CPUMicrocodes/Intel at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes




github.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What do you think....

Kryonaut or MX4?


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> 4C is the newest (at least on Asus Bios). Unless there's some newer microcode on the github repository that you would have to manually patch and flash.
> 
> 3C is garbage. has problems in SOTTR and other games in FPS especially with rebar enabled.
> 
> Seems there's a 50 out. Anyone want to try it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPUMicrocodes/cpuA0671_plat02_ver00000050_2021-08-29_PRD_04B1CE99.bin at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes
> 
> 
> Intel, AMD, VIA & Freescale CPU Microcode Repositories - CPUMicrocodes/cpuA0671_plat02_ver00000050_2021-08-29_PRD_04B1CE99.bin at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPUMicrocodes/Intel at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes
> 
> 
> Intel, AMD, VIA & Freescale CPU Microcode Repositories - CPUMicrocodes/Intel at master · platomav/CPUMicrocodes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


Excellent Thanks @Falkentyne I was thinking there was something strange going on... I'm losing track too many sleepless nights, whats the best place to source 4C microcode for Asus?


----------



## bscool

@morph. Just flash the latest bios and use ez flash in bios as flashback doesn't update the microcode on some MB models like z590 Apex.


----------



## domdtxdissar

PhoenixMDA said:


> That is what i mean, alone the driver+ version make a difference, you have have a really good result that i cant beat with my 10900K,
> but i must say in your 720p screen only at the min FPS i have a touch more as you... 😂 😜
> 
> I think it´s playable also on CML^^(5,5Ghz, [email protected] HT OFF), no benchsetting
> Perhap´s is anyone faster on intel i don´t know it.🤷‍♂️
> View attachment 2529228
> 
> 
> P.S.
> I´m also interested what Zen3 with 3DCache is able to do, there it´s better possible to use my selected memory and i don´t like Win11.


Upgraded to windows11


----------



## 2500k_2

domdtxdissar said:


> Upgraded to windows11
> View attachment 2529276


gpu bound / use 720p


----------



## ViTosS

domdtxdissar said:


> Upgraded to windows11
> View attachment 2529276


That's insane! Makes me want to go AMD on Zen 4 instead of Alderlake, maybe till there DDR5 will be more mature 

Any special tricks to that score besides heavily RAM and CPU OCed? SMT off or something?


----------



## Nizzen

ViTosS said:


> That's insane! Makes me want to go AMD on Zen 4 instead of Alderlake, maybe till there DDR5 will be more mature
> 
> Any special tricks to that score besides heavily RAM and CPU OCed? SMT off or something?


Smt=off
60hz ingame
"No" processes in windows; aka disable everything LOL
Crazy memory tweaking
Pbo per core

The list may be longer 😅


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

CPU is not well tuned yet coz first AMD since phenom x3 but got these results so far.


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> That's insane! Makes me want to go AMD on Zen 4 instead of Alderlake, maybe till there DDR5 will be more mature
> 
> Any special tricks to that score besides heavily RAM and CPU OCed? SMT off or something?


.. 338 eh



Nizzen said:


> Smt=off
> 60hz ingame
> "No" processes in windows; aka disable everything LOL
> Crazy memory tweaking
> Pbo per core
> 
> The list may be longer 😅


crazy how ppl are benchmarking this


----------



## GamerGGG

2500k_2 said:


> msi cl13 = real cl14
> so RTL should be from cl14
> try my timings
> View attachment 2529246


What vdim io sa do I need?


----------



## ViTosS

Just a Intel peasant passing by  (this latest SOTTR update gave me 20fps)


----------



## IronAge

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think....
> 
> Kryonaut or MX4?


Kryonaut.


----------



## eeroo94

ViTosS said:


> Just a Intel peasant passing by  (this latest SOTTR update gave me 20fps)
> View attachment 2529283


They removed Denuvo DRM from the game which gives more performance.


----------



## ViTosS

eeroo94 said:


> They removed Denuvo DRM from the game which gives more performance.


Oh nice, they should have done that waaaay earlier. Btw any of you AMD guys thought of buying that EVGA X570 Dark? Maybe 3800CL12 possible?


----------



## morph.

bscool said:


> @morph. Just flash the latest bios and use ez flash in bios as flashback doesn't update the microcode on some MB models like z590 Apex.


That's what I thought, I'm running v2301 and flashed via ez flash with a USB drive in the bios but still on 3C.


----------



## jeiselramos

morph. said:


> That's what I thought, I'm running v2301 and flashed via ez flash with a USB drive in the bios but still on 3C.
> 
> View attachment 2529290


Try 2402.
Safedisk posted it

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2500k_2

GamerGGG said:


> What vdim io sa do I need?


dram 1.52
sa /io2 > 1.5


----------



## GamerGGG

2500k_2 said:


> dram 1.52
> sa /io2 > 1.5


Currently testing this with 1.59vdim probably will pass.


----------



## 2500k_2

GamerGGG said:


> Currently testing this with 1.59vdim probably will pass.


trrd_s - 4
trrd_l - 6
tfaw- 16 
it will be faster this way


----------



## morph.

jeiselramos said:


> Try 2402.
> Safedisk posted it
> 
> Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk


Done on v2402 via ezflash & USB drive in the bios... However, still my microcode is still 3c....  What am I missing here? curse of the z490 >_<


----------



## GamerGGG

2500k_2 said:


> trrd_s - 4
> trrd_l - 6
> tfaw- 16
> it will be faster this way


The problem is I can pass 12-14-14 but subs 4-4-16 or 4-6-16 doesn’t pass


----------



## sugi0lover

tested the updated SOTTR~


----------



## 2500k_2

6600 cl36 
I wonder what price G.Skill will ask for such a kit?


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> 6600 cl36
> I wonder what price G.Skill will ask for such a kit?
> View attachment 2529390


2T.. so slow..


----------



## Siablo

2500k_2 said:


> 6600 cl36
> I wonder what price G.Skill will ask for such a kit?


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> 2T.. so slow..


Probably the guys from gskills did not have asus apex 14 /
probably they tested on b660 msi a-pro.  

But if ddr5 cannot work T1 in gear 2, then everything is more sad than I expected and 60 ns will be a success in overclocking.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

2500k_2 said:


> Probably the guys from gskills did not have asus apex 14 /
> probably they tested on b660 msi a-pro.
> 
> But if ddr5 cannot work T1 in gear 2, then everything is more sad than I expected and 60 ns will be a success in overclocking.


Asus didn’t start tweaking the M13 bios for good G1 performance until results started coming out for high later count XOC boards. I’ll wait and see what MSI and Asrock come out with.


----------



## 2500k_2

Can anyone test 1T Gear2 vs 2T Gear 2 at the same memory frequency in Aida and what kind of gaming benchmark.
I wonder how much performance and latency will drop.


----------



## cstkl1

hmm how is amd fairing 50-60ns?

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔..


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Can anyone test 1T Gear2 vs 2T Gear 2 at the same memory frequency in Aida and what kind of gaming benchmark.
> I wonder how much performance and latency will drop.


afaik
most ppl will be 2T

so its asking selected few who did 1T stable. 

something to do with chipset


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

ddr5


----------



## 2500k_2

Thanh Nguyen said:


> ddr5
> 
> View attachment 2529415


fully configured?


----------



## Nizzen

Can't wait to "fix" DDr 5 like we did with DDR 4 

We even almost fixed AMD with the memorytweaking. Yes we still hate you A.G.E.S.A 🤓


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

2500k_2 said:


> fully configured?


Xmp


----------



## 2500k_2

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Xmp


then that's very good news. and latency can be lowered.


----------



## sugi0lover

2500k_2 said:


> then that's very good news. and latency can be lowered.


6600 cl36 kit is coming....
DDR5-6600 CL36-36-36-76 32 GB (2x 16 GB)








G.SKILL Announces World's Fastest DDR5-6600 CL36 Trident Z5 Memory Kits


G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world's leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is thrilled to announce the world's fastest DDR5 memory kit at an extreme speed and low latency of DDR5-6600 CL36-36-36-76 32 GB (2x 16 GB). This is the world's...




www.techpowerup.com


----------



## bscool

morph. said:


> Done on v2402 via ezflash & USB drive in the bios... However, still my microcode is still 3c....  What am I missing here? curse of the z490 >_<
> 
> 
> View attachment 2529296


It has been a while since I messed with z490 and 11th gen but I think you are correct it has to with you being on z490 MB. I think microcode where different from what I remember.


----------



## kevintuna

Hi there, I recently purchased 8gb x 4 samsung b die, 4266mhz c19 kit. I'm on a daisy chain board, and I've been struggling. As soon as I figured out 11th gen intel really needed to be on 2T for success, I've done a bit better. Could anyone check out what I've currently got going on, and tell me how I could possibly improve, and if my voltages look safe? I'm on an i7 11700, z590 tomahawk. What I'm posting has been stable, it's passed 8 memtest64's. Thanks for your time.


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> hmm how is amd fairing 50-60ns?
> 
> 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔..


Decent i would say 

My newest SotTR run and other gamebenches @


http://imgur.com/a/RwxpB0T

(the 490 average fps f1 2020 run is also fairly okai i guess 😇)


----------



## MoonPatrol

-


----------



## Arni90

kevintuna said:


> Hi there, I recently purchased 8gb x 4 samsung b die, 4266mhz c19 kit. I'm on a daisy chain board, and I've been struggling. As soon as I figured out 11th gen intel really needed to be on 2T for success, I've done a bit better. Could anyone check out what I've currently got going on, and tell me how I could possibly improve, and if my voltages look safe? I'm on an i7 11700, z590 tomahawk. What I'm posting has been stable, it's passed 8 memtest64's. Thanks for your time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2529499


VCCSA is important for gear 1, you should be able to do 3733 if you push VCCSA to 1.45V or so.

memtest86 isn't all that great at error detection. Some alternatives are listed here: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
There's also HCI memtest, but I find Karhu to be more effective on Intel of the paid alternatives.

As for timings, while low timings do improve performance, frequency is still important. I would concentrate on finding the highest possible frequency you can run in gear 1 before working too much on subtimings.


----------



## kevintuna

What voltages are you suggesting for SA, IO, and RKL memory? I'll try whatever you think and give her a go.

What timings are you thinking for 3733? 

Thank you


----------



## kevintuna

Arni90 said:


> VCCSA is important for gear 1, you should be able to do 3733 if you push VCCSA to 1.45V or so.
> 
> memtest86 isn't all that great at error detection. Some alternatives are listed here: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
> There's also HCI memtest, but I find Karhu to be more effective on Intel of the paid alternatives.
> 
> As for timings, while low timings do improve performance, frequency is still important. I would concentrate on finding the highest possible frequency you can run in gear 1 before working too much on subtimings.


Sorry I replied about without quoting. Also, I am using 4 dimms if this matters in your reply.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

5.665 GHZ HT OFF

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)


----------



## sugi0lover

optimized Windows a little before running SOTTR benchmark + 
[email protected]_all cores (HT On) + 4010Mhz CL13 (Gear1)


----------



## 2500k_2

sugi0lover said:


> optimized Windows a little before running SOTTR benchmark +
> [email protected]_all cores (HT On) + 4010Mhz CL13 (Gear1)
> View attachment 2529636


Try to pass the benchmark and disabled HT. Perhaps you will even rise in the core frequency of + 100 MHz in this case.
Since without HT, the processor requires less vcore and heats up less.


----------



## Geekounet

Geekounet said:


> With H.T disabled i'm able to get 5.1Ghz all cores with 1.350V static but i get a lower score in cinebench, my previous score with H.T enabled @4.9Ghz all cores with 1.350V was 15487pts
> 
> View attachment 2529090
> View attachment 2529091


By the way guys, no one replied to me about this one please? what's better for gaming? 4.9 with ht on or 5.1 without it? maybe cb23 is optimized for HT


----------



## PhoenixMDA

sugi0lover said:


> optimized Windows a little before running SOTTR benchmark +
> [email protected]_all cores (HT On) + 4010Mhz CL13 (Gear1)
> View attachment 2529636


Your RKL is faster as the the [email protected] HT at same frequency with ramoc, i get 302FPS









i can push it a little bit more, but it´s slower as the AMD^^, more is only possible with XOC ramOC.

5,6/5,2/4666CL16-16 HT OFF i´m 8% GPU Bound^^


----------



## Arni90

kevintuna said:


> What voltages are you suggesting for SA, IO, and RKL memory? I'll try whatever you think and give her a go.
> 
> What timings are you thinking for 3733?
> 
> Thank you


VCCSA to 1.45V is my recommendation 
VCCIO2 shouldn't really need more than 1.20V in my experience, but you have a different motherboard and memory setup.

My assumption is that
IMC frequency -> VCCSA
Memory frequency -> VCCIO2 (RKL Memory) the requirements don't seem that strict in gear 1 range (1.25V is good up to DDR4-4266 with dual rank B-die on my Apex XIII).

VCCIO can stay at stock 1.05V, it's not needed for Rocket Lake

For anyone more experienced, like @sugi0lover or @cstkl1, feel free to correct me here.


----------



## Arni90

Geekounet said:


> By the way guys, no one replied to me about this one please? what's better for gaming? 4.9 with ht on or 5.1 without it? maybe cb23 is optimized for HT


It depends on the game, some games perform a lot better with HT enabled, and others perform better with HT disabled. The difference was bigger with older architectures, Rocket Lake isn't affected as much as Skylake or Haswell was.

Generally, older titles perform worse with HT enabled.


----------



## Geekounet

Arni90 said:


> It depends on the game, some games perform a lot better with HT enabled, and others perform better with HT disabled. The difference was bigger with older architectures, Rocket Lake isn't affected as much as Skylake or Haswell was.
> 
> Generally, older titles perform worse with HT enabled.


Thanks for your answer man, i'll stay 4.9Ghz all cores with H.T enabled then


----------



## domdtxdissar

2500k_2 said:


> Try to pass the benchmark and disabled HT. Perhaps you will even rise in the core frequency of + 100 MHz in this case.
> Since without HT, the processor requires less vcore and heats up less.


Can you link the russian SotTR 720p benchmark forum thread ?


----------



## 2500k_2

domdtxdissar said:


> Can you link the russian SotTR 720p benchmark forum thread ?


on overclockers.ru or Russian imageboard?


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> VCCSA to 1.45V is my recommendation
> VCCIO2 shouldn't really need more than 1.20V in my experience, but you have a different motherboard and memory setup.
> 
> My assumption is that
> IMC frequency -> VCCSA
> Memory frequency -> VCCIO2 (RKL Memory) the requirements don't seem that strict in gear 1 range (1.25V is good up to DDR4-4266 with dual rank B-die on my Apex XIII).
> 
> VCCIO can stay at stock 1.05V, it's not needed for Rocket Lake
> 
> For anyone more experienced, like @sugi0lover or @cstkl1, feel free to correct me here.


SA / mcio has a voltage inter dependency and SA is reliant on vtt especially for DR

so just use whatever can pass everything

SA loadline matters on long run with switching frequency

i use the switching same as [email protected] 500 but he uses LL3 and i am at 2.


----------



## ViTosS

Yo guys, run some HZD lowest 1080p 50% res scale


----------



## sugi0lover

ViTosS said:


> Yo guys, run some HZD lowest 1080p 50% res scale
> 
> View attachment 2529748


Here it is with 11900K 5392Mhz + 4010Mhz CL13 (Gear1) 
Min fps is good^^


----------



## domdtxdissar

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is with 11900K 5392Mhz + 4010Mhz CL13 (Gear1)
> Min fps is good^^
> View attachment 2529808


"Favor performance" for apple to apple comparison


----------



## sugi0lover

domdtxdissar said:


> "Favor performance" for apple to apple comparison


I replied to VitosS and it's apple to apple to his setting.

"Favor performance" Bench


----------



## sugi0lover

Jeez! Re-Bar has slowed the performance.
Here is my new bench of Farcry 6 (HD Texture on) with re-bar off. I guess most of my gaming benches posted here were lower than they were supposed to. It doesn't matter since adl is coming...


----------



## Groove2013

My SP50 can actually do 4000 1:1 100:133 BCLK 100 no problem (Karhu RAM test 5 hrs / 10.000%).

It's my 3800 14-16-16-36 that can't do more than 3960 at 14-15-15.

Have set it to 4000 16-18-18-38 and no problems.

So will try my luck with a 2nd 4000 14 kit.
The 1st one I got rid of it, since it was already used/binned by somebody before me.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> The 1st one I got rid of it, since it was already used/binned by somebody before me.


What was the serial #? I can tell you if it was one of my bin rejects?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> What was the serial #? I can tell you if it was one of my bin rejects?


Don't know. I don't have it anymore.
It was from Germany.


----------



## Groove2013

It is so much hotter with 4000 MHz RAM and so much more demanding for the CPU...


----------



## 2500k_2

Groove2013 said:


> How much hotter it is with 4000 MHz RAM and how much more demanding for the CPU...


Start LinX / and you will give an answer to your question. Check your settings in one go 
LinX 0.9.11
LinX v0.9.11 & Legacy (한국어, 일반 & 레거시)


----------



## Jwick

2500k_2 said:


> Start LinX / and you will give an answer to your question. Check your settings in one go
> LinX 0.9.11
> LinX v0.9.11 & Legacy (한국어, 일반 & 레거시)








2021.4(Intel).7z







drive.google.com




i updated it to the latest intel libraries  2021.4


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover my 3800 14-16-16 can't do 4000 14-15-15 with 1.65 vdimm and 1.52 sa.
It can only do 4000 14-16-16 at 1.65 and 1.52.

But still now errors after 1 hour 4000 14-15-15 with 1.59 vdimm instead of 1.65.


----------



## Groove2013

Must be because of very tight tRCD for my kit and using it at 4000 that too high vdimm is "fatal".


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover could you upload Mem TweakIt for download, please?
I saw it working on one of your screenshots.

Because I downloaded 3 different version from the net and all of them could be installed, but none of them could be launched.

Thx


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover my 3800 14-16-16 can't do 4000 14-15-15 with 1.65 vdimm and 1.52 sa.
> It can only do 4000 14-16-16 at 1.65 and 1.52.
> 
> But still now errors after 1 hour 4000 14-15-15 with 1.59 vdimm instead of 1.65.


Raise rtl


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> Raise rtl


No need. 61 61 is fine.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> No need. 61 61 is fine.


By “61 61 is fine,” do you mean that you still need 1.65 and 1.52 vdimm/sa when you raise RTL to 62?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> By “61 61 is fine,” do you mean that you still need 1.65 and 1.52 vdimm/sa when you raise RTL to 62?


1.65 vdimm was more than enough, just in case, and it was even too much, since because of 1.65 vdimm, 4000 14-15-15 (1:1 | 100:133 | BCLK 100) was throwing errors.

Now it's at 1.63 vdimm for more than 2 hrs already.
But it requires even much less than that.
I just want to find exactly the highest vdimm voltage it can handle without errors, to try lower tRFC as much as possible, thanks to additional vdimm.

Otherwise 1.6 vdimm or maybe slightly less is enough. Just tRFC won't be as low then.

SA is also more than enough and will be lowered later.

9th gen, there were errors when vdimm, sa and io too high, not because sticks sucked.

10th gen only too high vdimm caused errors.

11 gen also too high vdimm causes errors.
High sa and io cause no errors.


----------



## Arni90

0451 said:


> Raise rtl


Is it possible to adjust RTL on Maximus XIII Apex? Besides enabling/disabling Round Trip Latency?


----------



## Groove2013

Arni90 said:


> Is it possible to adjust RTL on Maximus XIII Apex? Besides enabling/disabling Round Trip Latency?


He's on Z590 Dark.
Me on Apex 13.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arni90 said:


> Is it possible to adjust RTL on Maximus XIII Apex? Besides enabling/disabling Round Trip Latency?





Groove2013 said:


> He's on Z590 Dark.
> Me on Apex 13.


Maybe it isn’t possible on M13A. I’m using an ASRock OCF. Raising RTL is how I stabilize 4000+


----------



## geriatricpollywog

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)


----------



## bigcid10

are there any newer bios's out for the rog strix z590 gaming 
newer than 1007 ,maybe beta ?
Thank you


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover could you upload Mem TweakIt for download, please?
> I saw it working on one of your screenshots.
> 
> Because I downloaded 3 different version from the net and all of them could be installed, but none of them could be launched.
> 
> Thx


Sorry for the late reply!
The link below is MemTweakIt I use.





MemTweakIt.exe







drive.google.com


----------



## Arni90

0451 said:


> Maybe it isn’t possible on M13A. I’m using an ASRock OCF. Raising RTL is how I stabilize 4000+


Yeah, that makes sense. Here's to hoping RTL adjustment is possible on Z690


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover have you tried vdimm lower than 1.647 (1.63 BIOS) to maybe be able to do 4000 BCLK 100 instead of BCLK 103.5 (1 multi lower and weird cores/ring frequencies)?

Because my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP threw errors at 4000 BCLK 100 at 1.647 vdimm.
Also errors at 1.629 vdimm.

But now, at 1.611 vdimm (1.595 BIOS), 4000 14-15-15 BCLK 100 (1:1 | 100:133) works without errors.

Also what is strange on Apex 13 is that you can adjust vdimm by 0.005 V increments, but in HWiNFO there are only 0.018 V increments, like 1.611, 1.629, 1.647 V.
So you can increase vdimm by 0.005 or 0.015 V and it still will report 1.611 V.
Only when you increase vdimm by 0.020 V, vdimm reported jumps from 1.611 to 1.629.


----------



## Groove2013

High io and sa don't give errors, for rocket lake, but too high vdimm gives errors.
So it's not the sticks or imc, but too low or too high vdimm, as long as your sticks and imc are good.


----------



## Groove2013

A nice discovery/find on the net )))


----------



## Delpize

Groove2013 said:


> A nice discovery/find on the net )))


I have z590 apex too but sadly putting ppd 0 is not working on apex.


----------



## Groove2013

Delpize said:


> I have z590 apex too but sadly putting ppd 0 is not working on apex.


I have a friend with Z390 and there PPD doesn't exist (in the BIOS), so he lowered only tXP from default 7 to 4 and still 1 ns less in Aida64.

Edit: and maybe PPD 0 doesn't work only for you, but will be possible for somebody else, like with RAM frequency difference between different users here, all having 11900K.


----------



## 2500k_2

Delpize said:


> I have z590 apex too but sadly putting ppd 0 is not working on apex.


set pdd = 1 and check if your latency has increased.
If yes, then it works.


----------



## Delpize

2500k_2 said:


> set pdd = 1 and check if your latency has increased.
> If yes, then it works.


Sadly no difference between 0 and 1


----------



## Groove2013

4000 14-15-15 finally achieved!!!
(1:1 | BCLK 100 | 100:133 | VDIMM 1.590 V in BIOS)
(11900K SP 50 | 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP)

IO, SA and VDIMM (hopefully) will be lowered, after I finish with all the timings, especially tRFC.
Cores and ring at 3.6 GHz - waiting for watercooling to arrive soon. Still on Noctua NH-D15*S*.
Then, on water, will do complete run of Prime95 (custom | 4K-8192K | FFTs in-place | non-AVX).


----------



## ViTosS

Groove2013 said:


> 4000 14-15-15 finally achieved!!!
> (1:1 | BCLK 100 | 100:133 | VDIMM 1.590 V in BIOS)
> (11900K SP 50 | 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP)
> 
> IO, SA and VDIMM (hopefully) will be lowered, after I finish with all the timings, especially tRFC.
> Cores and ring at 3.6 GHz - waiting for watercooling to arrive soon. Still on Noctua NH-D15*S*.
> Then, on water, will do complete run of Prime95 (custom | 4K-8192K | FFTs in-place | non-AVX).


Now try TM5 Extreme1, I had a past OC passing Karhu without problem but failing in TM5.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover have you tried vdimm lower than 1.647 (1.63 BIOS) to maybe be able to do 4000 BCLK 100 instead of BCLK 103.5 (1 multi lower and weird cores/ring frequencies)?
> 
> Because my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP threw errors at 4000 BCLK 100 at 1.647 vdimm.
> Also errors at 1.629 vdimm.
> 
> But now, at 1.611 vdimm (1.595 BIOS), 4000 14-15-15 BCLK 100 (1:1 | 100:133) works without errors.
> 
> Also what is strange on Apex 13 is that you can adjust vdimm by 0.005 V increments, but in HWiNFO there are only 0.018 V increments, like 1.611, 1.629, 1.647 V.
> So you can increase vdimm by 0.005 or 0.015 V and it still will report 1.611 V.
> Only when you increase vdimm by 0.020 V, vdimm reported jumps from 1.611 to 1.629.


Without BCLK OC, I can't boot 4000 CL13 with 16x2 kit. I don't have any interested in CL14, so I haven't tried.
From my experience with 4000 CL15 16GB Kit (8x2), vdimm

5066 17 17 17 (G2): 1.610v
5000 16 17 17 (G2): 1.690v
4000 14 14 14 (G1, bclk 100) : 1.520v (I posted the result here before)
With 4000 CL14 32GB kit, I assume vdimm for 4000 14 14 (bclk oc) will require lower than 1.55v since 4000 13 14 14 with 32GB requires 0.05v lower (1.62v) than 16GB 4000 13 14 14 (1.67v),
and 16GB 4000 14 14 14 needed 1.52v as I mentioned above.
Like you mentioned, the real voltage is different from bios voltage.
Anyway, my 16GB kit can handle vdimm around 1.720v without errors, but my 32GB kit started giving me errors around 1.650v.
The voltage endurance is different even among same 4000 CL15 16GB (I had more than 20 kits tested). I heard 10 layers can endure higher voltages, but I am not sure.
Since my ram kit's water cooled, I like those ram kit with higher voltage endurance.


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> A nice discovery/find on the net )))


This was my old test when I was using 10900K + Z490 Godlike.
The latency of MSI MB was higher than ASUS with the same ram timing and that was the reason I started the test.

[Latency - 36.2ns, txp auto (15) + ppd 1]










[Latency - 34.6ns, txp 4 + ppd 1]










[Latency - 33.8ns, txp 4 + ppd 0]









and the final stable 24/7 setup I used before moving to 11th Gen was this. (moved from Godlike to Apex)








New item by sugi 0lover (sugi0lover)







photos.app.goo.gl


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> 4000 CL15 16GB (I had more than 20 kits tested).


How many 2x16 4000 CL14 kits tested? )))


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> How many 2x16 4000 CL14 kits tested? )))


Only one that I am using right now... DDR5 is coming, so I didn't bin 32GB kit
So I am not sure my 32GB kit is high bin or not due to the very limited experience.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Only one that I am using right now... DDR5 is coming, so I didn't bin 32GB kit
> So I am not sure my 32GB kit is high bin or not due to the very limited experience.


I think you have a good kit if you can stabilize 4000c14 gear 1 with 200% HCI memtest. Only the 3rd kit that I binned can do this. And you are the only other person I've seen do this. Yours is doing 4000c13 to 200%, right?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I think you have a good kit if you can stabilize 4000c14 gear 1 with 200% HCI memtest. Only the 3rd kit that I binned can do this. And you are the only other person I've seen do this. Yours is doing 4000c13 to 200%, right?


Are you doing 4000 BCLK 100 or by raising BCLK from 100 (3866)?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Are you doing 4000 BCLK 100 or by raising BCLK from 100 (3866)?


4000 BCLK 100


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> I think you have a good kit if you can stabilize 4000c14 gear 1 with 200% HCI memtest. Only the 3rd kit that I binned can do this. And you are the only other person I've seen do this. Yours is doing 4000c13 to 200%, right?


Good to know! My current setup is 4010-13-14-14 passing HCI 200%. So I take your word and I feel lucky! Thanks!


----------



## jeiselramos

0451 said:


> 4000 BCLK 100
> 
> View attachment 2530069


Where did you download this hci version?

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Nonesenze81

What is the best way to update the bios with new microcode. I have 1007 from asus website for the m13h


----------



## satinghostrider

Nonesenze81 said:


> What is the best way to update the bios with new microcode. I have 1007 from asus website for the m13h


Flash it within the bios for proper microcode updating.


----------



## Nonesenze81

Can I flash 1007 over 1007 again. Is there a better bios ?


----------



## satinghostrider

Nonesenze81 said:


> Can I flash 1007 over 1007 again. Is there a better bios ?


1102 Bios which is what most are using. Posted a while back. You have to search for it and it comes with a newer microcode than what 1007 has which is 4C.


----------



## Nonesenze81

Found it. Thanks. I can try it in 3 weeks. I had to rma my sp50 11900k. It would bsod even on default bios settings and could not touch the vcore or any settings. Now my new cpu works alot better but still sp50. I only had 1 day to play with it but it would boot and run cb23 at 5.3 all core at 1.37v so hopefully fun to play with when I get home

Also. I know nothing about memory overclock and I think I don't have very good clockers. They are micron e-die 4x8gb 3600 cl18

Should I even try anything with them?


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1202 UPDATE*

1. Some bug fixes
2. Microcode Update 0x50 Ver

ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1202

ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1202

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1202

ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1202


----------



## Delpize

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2530171
> 
> 
> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1202 UPDATE*
> 
> 1. Some bug fixes
> 2. Microcode Update 0x50 Ver
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1202
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1202
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1202
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1202


Thank you for information. Did you hve chance to try it?


----------



## Arni90

Delpize said:


> Thank you for information. Did you hve chance to try it?


Safedisk is probably busy testing LGA 1700 and Alder Lake.

Gotta have those LN2 runs for HWBOT ready for release date


----------



## Groove2013

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2530171
> 
> 
> *ROG MAXIMUS XIII Series Beta Bios 1202 UPDATE*
> 
> 1. Some bug fixes
> 2. Microcode Update 0x50 Ver
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO BETA BIOS 1202
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII APEX BETA BIOS 1202
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME BETA BIOS 1202
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS XIII EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1202


Any details, maybe, please?


----------



## Groove2013

changing tXP from auto to 4 in the BIOS (Apex 13 1102) and in Mem TweakIt, it still shows tXP 7.
And PPD on auto also shows as 0 in Mem TweakIt, although auto should be PPD 1?

So changing tXP in the BIOS doesn't work or Mem TweakIt simply doesn't reflect/show the change?
Also is it normal that PPD on auto shows as 0 in Mem TweakIt or it's also Mem TweakIt not reflefting the reality?

With tXP 4 in the BIOS (7 in Mem TweakIt), Aida64 latency is still same as if I put manually tXP 7 (default is also 7).

Anybody has an idea why it's not working? Or is tXP depending from another timing or timings, is dictated by other timing(s) or is there a specific BIOS setting that must be changed for tXP to work/apply?


----------



## Groove2013

Also changing PPD from auto to 1 in the BIOS, still results in 0 in Mem TweakIt.

But even if Mem TweakIt simply doesn't reflect the changes, latency in Aida64 should change and it doesn't.


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> changing tXP from auto to 4 in the BIOS (Apex 13 1102) and in Mem TweakIt, it still shows tXP 7.
> And PPD on auto also shows as 0 in Mem TweakIt, although auto should be PPD 1?
> 
> So changing tXP in the BIOS doesn't work or Mem TweakIt simply doesn't reflect/show the change?
> Also is it normal that PPD on auto shows as 0 in Mem TweakIt or it's also Mem TweakIt not reflefting the reality?
> 
> With tXP 4 in the BIOS (7 in Mem TweakIt), Aida64 latency is still same as if I put manually tXP 7 (default is also 7).
> 
> Anybody has an idea why it's not working? Or is tXP depending from another timing or timings, is dictated by other timing(s) or is there a specific BIOS setting that must be changed for tXP to work/apply?


Don't think it's working on Rocketlake. Didn't last time I tried...


----------



## Groove2013

Nizzen said:


> Don't think it's working on Rocketlake. Didn't last time I tried...


Must be the case, yes.
Because even when I change tXP from 7 to 4 in Mem TweakIt, apply and restart Mem TweakIt, it shows correctly 4, but testing with Aida64 - no bandwidth or latency changes.

Wonder why is it then even present in the BIOS (1102), if it doesn't work...


----------



## Delpize

Groove2013 said:


> Must be the case, yes.
> Because even when I change tXP from 7 to 4 in Mem TweakIt, apply and restart Mem TweakIt, it shows correctly 4, but testing with Aida64 - no bandwidth or latency changes.
> 
> Wonder why is it then even present in the BIOS (1102), if it doesn't work...


I tried this one too. I actually could change PPD to 0 on z490 apex but on z590 nah. By the way, on my z590 apex there is a settings called Turn around timing Guard Band= Enable this for higher overclock is written on the explanation. 

Did anyone tried that setting? Its under timing tab.


----------



## Groove2013

Delpize said:


> I tried this one too. I actually could change PPD to 0 on z490 apex but on z590 nah. By the way, on my z590 apex there is a settings called Turn around timing Guard Band= Enable this for higher overclock is written on the explanation.
> 
> Did anyone tried that setting? Its under timing tab.


You can try it yourself.


----------



## Nonesenze81

Is micron e-die any good for overclocking? And what would be a starting point for someone who has no experience with memory overclock?

I have 3600 cl18 1.35v kit 4x8gb


----------



## Arni90

Nonesenze81 said:


> Is micron e-die any good for overclocking? And what would be a starting point for someone who has no experience with memory overclock?
> 
> I have 3600 cl18 1.35v kit 4x8gb


Micron rev. E does pretty decent frequency-wise, but tRAS and tRFC will never hit good timings


----------



## RobertoSampaio

My 34gl750 lg monitor is dead...
Any suggestion about a good 34" monitor?


----------



## D-EJ915

RobertoSampaio said:


> My 34gl750 lg monitor is dead...
> Any suggestion about a good 34" monitor?


I would suggest make a thread in the Monitors subforum: Monitors and Displays


----------



## safedisk

*ROG STRIX Z590 Series Beta Bios 1202 UPDATE*

1. Improve system performance
2. Microcode Update 0x50 Ver

ROG STRIX Z590-A GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 1202

ROG STRIX Z590-A GAMING WIFI II BETA BIOS 1202

ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 1202

ROG STRIX Z590-F GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 1202

ROG STRIX Z590-I GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 1202


----------



## murenitu

any new bios for asus formula z490?


----------



## Nizzen

murenitu said:


> any new bios for asus formula z490?


ROG MAXIMUS XII Series Beta Bios 2403 UPDATE
1. Some bug fixes
2. Microcode Update 0x50 Ver
ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO BETA BIOS 2403
https://drive.google.com/.../1wfoJ3ZVaX4T25kSLer94PK.../view
ROG MAXIMUS XII APEX BETA BIOS 2403
https://drive.google.com/.../1Om6g7qADivAPex.../view
ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA BETA BIOS 2403
https://drive.google.com/.../1QdsfQzn2zdi3EBXwNvn0zL.../view
ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME BETA BIOS 2403
https://drive.google.com/.../1eWS861U5X2xzOvV1.../view


----------



## murenitu

Nizzen said:


> ROG MAXIMUS XII Series Beta Bios 2403 UPDATE
> 1. Some bug fixes
> 2. Microcode Update 0x50 Ver
> ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO BETA BIOS 2403
> https://drive.google.com/.../1wfoJ3ZVaX4T25kSLer94PK.../view
> ROG MAXIMUS XII APEX BETA BIOS 2403
> https://drive.google.com/.../1Om6g7qADivAPex.../view
> ROG MAXIMUS XII FORMULA BETA BIOS 2403
> https://drive.google.com/.../1QdsfQzn2zdi3EBXwNvn0zL.../view
> ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME BETA BIOS 2403
> https://drive.google.com/.../1eWS861U5X2xzOvV1.../view



I'm using beta bios 2402 too, do you think I should change it?


----------



## Nizzen

murenitu said:


> I'm using beta bios 2402 too, do you think I should change it?


I don't think anything 
I'm using a VERY old bios for my Formula card. My son is using it as a gaming pc with 10900k. It works fine with 4000c17 memory. If it ain't broken, don't fix it 
For OC on my Apex boards, I allways test EVERY betabios coming, just in case there is some performance gain


----------



## murenitu

I like the risk xD if it is true that with the beta 2402 bios I managed to start at 3733 in gear 1, which was previously impossible with 4 sticks.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hi guys...

Do you know what is the default "by core" configuration of the 11900k?

10900k is:

53x2 – 51x3 – 50x5 – 49x10
Full load @ 49x

I need to know the stock configuration of the 11900k.


----------



## Geekounet

RobertoSampaio said:


> Hi guys...
> 
> Do you know what is the default "by core" configuration of the 11900k?
> 
> 10900k is:
> 
> 53x2 – 51x3 – 50x5 – 49x10
> Full load @ 49x
> 
> I need to know the stock configuration of the 11900k.


I think each silicon has it's own values & capabilities if i'm not mistaken...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Geekounet said:


> I think each silicon has it's own values if i'm not mistaken...


No... 
It is Intel default adaptive boost technology... 

I need to know if this is correct:

53x2 - 51x4 - 49x6 - 48x8
Full load @ 48x


----------



## murenitu

RobertoSampaio said:


> No...
> It is Intel default adaptive boost technology...
> 
> I need to know if this is correct:
> 
> 53x2 - 51x4 - 49x6 - 48x8
> Full load @ 48x
> 
> View attachment 2530541


these values are correct but it is in the MAXIMUM possible case with all the favorable options.

As much as possible when everything is expensive in INTEL stock, many buses will not make those Stock frequencies, not even removing the limits since there will always be some temperature or consumption conditions that cancel that combination.

but yes, if you want to know if that is the maximum OEM ceiling with all of the face yes.


----------



## Falkentyne

RobertoSampaio said:


> No...
> It is Intel default adaptive boost technology...
> 
> I need to know if this is correct:
> 
> 53x2 - 51x4 - 49x6 - 48x8
> Full load @ 48x
> 
> View attachment 2530541


I thought that "Thermal Velocity Boost" (not TVB voltage optimizations, which allows VID scaling based on temps since hotter chips need more voltage) allowed a higher bin if less than 70C, so if that were the case, 2 cores could run at 5.4 ghz. But I don't remember anymore if that affected per core (load) turbo boost, or only affected all core synched multiplier boosting ;(. Didn't I write this in the Maximus 12 Extreme thread I created back in May 2020.


----------



## murenitu

Falkentyne said:


> I thought that "Thermal Velocity Boost" (not TVB voltage optimizations, which allows VID scaling based on temps since hotter chips need more voltage) allowed a higher bin if less than 70C, so if that were the case, 2 cores could run at 5.4 ghz. But I don't remember anymore if that affected per core (load) turbo boost, or only affected all core synched multiplier boosting ;(. Didn't I write this in the Maximus 12 Extreme thread I created back in May 2020.


I think not, you are confused, TVB will enable exactly as you say but starting from a maximum of 5.2 for 2 cores, so if TVB can work it will do it at 5.3 on 2 cores!

I mean it is similar to what you were thinking but the maximum possible for intel specs with TVB enabled is 5.3 x 2 cores!

More than that would be considered an Oc out of "stock" and we are talking about 5.3x2 cores with TVB enabled which would be the 3rd level of oc provided by intel.


----------



## kevintuna

Hi there. Got some Samsung b die 4266mhz c17 ram today. 16gb x 2, on z590 msi tomahawk.

Looking for some timing and voltage recommendations.

Thanks


----------



## murenitu

Guys, after the last 2 beta bios for z490 I was able to go up to 3733 on gear 1

4 dimms 4000cl18 / 19/19/39 originally
Running on 16/17/17/37 gear1 t2.

I hang you the memteak info could I play something else in timings 2 or 3 to lower the latency some more?


----------



## murenitu

murenitu said:


> Guys, after the last 2 beta bios for z490 I was able to go up to 3733 on gear 1
> 
> 4 dimms 4000cl18 / 19/19/39 originally
> Running on 16/17/17/37 gear1 t2.
> 
> I hang you the memteak info could I play something else in timings 2 or 3 to lower the latency some more?
> 
> [url = https: //ibb.co/TM6S2Rj] https://i.ibb.co/TM6S2Rj/ramgear1.jpg [/ img] [/ url]
> 
> [url = https: //imgbb.com/] https://i.ibb.co/gTjpY0f/gear12.jpg [/ img] [/ url]
> 
> [url = https: //imgbb.com/] [img] https://i.ibb.co/BN8JWW0/gear13.jpg [/ img] [/ url]
> 
> [url = https: //imgbb.com/] [img] https://i.ibb.co/y0zyCnZ/gear14.jpg [/ img] [/ url]
> [/QUOTE]


----------



## Groove2013

2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2 (gear 1 | BCLK 100 MHz)
11900K (SP 50) | 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP Trident Z Neo (January 2021)

Now need to see by how much I can lower IO, SA and VDIMM using Prime95 (custom | 4K-8192K | FFTs in-place | non-AVX)

Will also buy again 4000 MHz CL14 kit to see if I can do 13-14 or 14-14 at 4000 MHz and also lower tCWL to 12, tWR to 8, tRFC lower than 234, RTL 59-60, lower tWRRD_sg and dg + lower tWRWR_dr and dd.


----------



## bscool

@murenitu Before you were running 3600c14, I would think that would be preferable to 3733 c17. I would think your latency is a bit higher with the later. 

But I am the odd duck out I am running currently running Unify X 5333c20 so it is even higher latency and I cant tell a difference from Apex 3866c14 outside of benchmarks.


----------



## murenitu

To think that I have 4 dimms and I imagine that that also affected all possible configurations, if I only put 2 8x2 dimms, maybe I could lower more


----------



## murenitu

Groove2013 said:


> 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2 (gear 1 | BCLK 100 MHz)
> 11900K (SP 50) | 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP Trident Z Neo (January 2021)
> 
> Now need to see by how much I can lower IO, SA and VDIMM using Prime95 (custom | 4K-8192K | FFTs in-place | non-AVX)
> 
> Will also buy again 4000 MHz CL14 kit to see if I can do 13-14 or 14-14 at 4000 MHz and also lower tCWL to 12, tWR to 8, tRFC lower than 234, RTL 59-60, lower tWRRD_sg and dg + lower tWRWR_dr and dd.


it is a lot of voltage to use that pc on a daily basis 1.6vvv vccioram to 1.45v ... for me that is unthinkable I need to have lasting stability


----------



## Groove2013

murenitu said:


> it is a lot of voltage to use that pc on a daily basis 1.6vvv vccioram to 1.45v ... for me that is unthinkable I need to have lasting stability


Read what I wrote again, entirely this time.


----------



## murenitu

Groove2013 said:


> Read what I wrote again, entirely this time.
> [/CITA]
> 
> I have read you perfectly, but that is not the best casuistry to ocean the ram! first you have to establish a MAXIMUM POINT that you do not want to exceed ...
> 
> Otherwise I can also put all the voltages at 1.6v and see what I can achieve and then try to think that by lowering those voltages I will obtain the same oc and the same stability, it is impossible.


----------



## yahfz

@Groove2013 any tips that helped you get that much higher frequency at gear 1?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Not the best CPU for Time Spy. Or the best GPU either. But here is the #1 11900K/3090 single GPU score.
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Not the best CPU for Time Spy. Or the best GPU either. But here is the #1 11900K/3090 single GPU score.
> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)
> 
> View attachment 2530795


Great! What kind of cooling do you use? 
23C Average temperature of GPU is crazy.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Great! What kind of cooling do you use?
> 23C Average temperature of GPU is crazy.


I put my MO-RA outside on the patio. The temperature was 40F outside.


----------



## kevintuna

I've been having an impossible time to get my 4266mhz cl 17 16gb x 2 kit to post at any higher than 3466mhz in gear 1.. and even that has to be in 2T.. Ilat 3600mhz in gear 1 I can't post at all, no matter what latencies I choose. Someone on another forum told me this but I don't know what it means.. please help.

"no post because cpu imc limit, you need to try ram bus 133mhz x27 =3600 with gear1, SA voltage is much important too, with gear1 SA voltage on Auto go high then you can try more low settings"


----------



## Falkentyne

Are you using 100:100 or 100:133 ?


----------



## eeroo94

kevintuna said:


> I've been having an impossible time to get my 4266mhz cl 17 16gb x 2 kit to post at any higher than 3466mhz in gear 1.. and even that has to be in 2T.. Ilat 3600mhz in gear 1 I can't post at all, no matter what latencies I choose. Someone on another forum told me this but I don't know what it means.. please help.
> 
> "no post because cpu imc limit, you need to try ram bus 133mhz x27 =3600 with gear1, SA voltage is much important too, with gear1 SA voltage on Auto go high then you can try more low settings"


What SA and VCCIO2 voltages you are using, and are you using the recommended dimm slots (usually the slots furthest from CPU).


----------



## kevintuna

Falkentyne said:


> Are you using 100:100 or 100:133 ?





eeroo94 said:


> What SA and VCCIO2 voltages you are using, and are you using the recommended dimm slots (usually the slots furthest from CPU).



I've never touched anything 100:100 setting, so I'm sure I'm on default setting. I'm confused what this setting is even referring to? I assume it's the setting the guy mentioned in that post to me but I've never seen it.

In regards to the SA voltage and VCCIO2... 1.2 for SA and 1.25 for VCCIO 2...I've tried increasing both of these and it hasn't helped me post higher than 3466mhz in gear 1.


----------



## kevintuna

What SA and RKL are people using?


----------



## yahfz

kevintuna said:


> I've never touched anything 100:100 setting, so I'm sure I'm on default setting. I'm confused what this setting is even referring to? I assume it's the setting the guy mentioned in that post to me but I've never seen it.
> 
> In regards to the SA voltage and VCCIO2... 1.2 for SA and 1.25 for VCCIO 2...I've tried increasing both of these and it hasn't helped me post higher than 3466mhz in gear 1.


You gotta use 100:133 to make it easier for the IMC. There's no way you'll be able to do 3733 without it.


----------



## kevintuna

yahfz said:


> You gotta use 100:133 to make it easier for the IMC. There's no way you'll be able to do 3733 without it.


Will it make it easier to be in 1T as well?

What's the max safe "memory bus" level to push higher speeds in gear 1?

What's a safe daily use SA AND VIO2?
thanks


----------



## geriatricpollywog

kevintuna said:


> Will it make it easier to be in 1T as well?
> 
> What's the max safe "memory bus" level to push higher speeds in gear 1?
> 
> What's a safe daily use SA AND VIO2?
> thanks


Intel max spec for SA is 1.52. I run 1.45 daily and 1.55 for benching. Higher SA and RTL timings stabilize 4000+ in Gear 1.


----------



## kevintuna

0451 said:


> Intel max spec for SA is 1.52. I run 1.45 daily and 1.55 for benching. Higher SA and RTL timings stabilize 4000+ in Gear 1.



Thanks for the reply. RTL = IO 2 OR RKL right? What voltage for RKL daily? Is 4000 possible with 1T? Is this possible with that 100:133 ratio?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

kevintuna said:


> Thanks for the reply. RTL = IO 2 OR RKL right? What voltage for RKL daily? Is 4000 possible with 1T? Is this possible with that 100:133 ratio?


RTL is a timing
What’s RKL? Rocket Lake CPU voltage?


----------



## kevintuna

0451 said:


> RTL is a timing
> What’s RKL? Rocket Lake CPU voltage?



Sorry I've never heard of RTL, where do you see that and what do you run for it?

I have SA voltage, IO voltage, then IO2 (RKL voltage) in msi bios. I'll attach a picture.









20211031-084457


Image 20211031-084457 hosted in ImgBB




ibb.co


----------



## geriatricpollywog

kevintuna said:


> Sorry I've never heard of RTL, where do you see that and what do you run for it?
> 
> I have SA voltage, IO voltage, then IO2 (RKL voltage) in msi bios. I'll attach a picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20211031-084457
> 
> 
> Image 20211031-084457 hosted in ImgBB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ibb.co


Try IO 1.3 and SA 1.45. Leave everything else on auto.


----------



## kevintuna

0451 said:


> Try IO 1.3 and SA 1.45. Leave everything else on auto.


Which IO? 100:133 or 100:100?


Thank you very much ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

kevintuna said:


> Which IO? 100:133?


Try both?


----------



## kevintuna

0451 said:


> Try both?


Am I doing anything wrong here? I can't post at all. Even with extremely loose timings in 1T or 2T

Here's the bios









20211102-195840


Image 20211102-195840 hosted in ImgBB




ibb.co













20211102-195900


Image 20211102-195900 hosted in ImgBB




ibb.co


----------



## Arni90

kevintuna said:


> Am I doing anything wrong here? I can't post at all. Even with extremely loose timings in 1T or 2T
> 
> Here's the bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20211102-195840
> 
> 
> Image 20211102-195840 hosted in ImgBB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ibb.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20211102-195900
> 
> 
> Image 20211102-195900 hosted in ImgBB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ibb.co


CPU IO back to 1.05V
Base clock back to 100

CPU IO2 (RKL) to 1.30V
CPU SA to 1.45V

The 133:100 ratio is either hidden under Advanced DRAM Configuration, or it's specified on the DRAM Frequency menu


----------



## bscool

@kevintuna to rule out io/sa you can try io1.45 and sa 1.65. 

Set main timings 14-14-14-34 [email protected] or 15-15-15-35 if that doesn't boot it is most likely the MB or IMC. My weakest 11900k needs 1.4io and 1.5 sa to run 3733 in z590 Apex or z590 Unify X.

On MSI you cannot manually set RTL with RKL. You can enable Round Trip Latency to tighten them later.

Edit also make sure ram is in correct dim slots a2 and b2. Also at the top of the OC page change OC Explorer from Normal to Expert to show ratio/Dram ref clock in memory settings.


----------



## kevintuna

Arni90 said:


> CPU IO back to 1.05V
> Base clock back to 100
> 
> CPU IO2 (RKL) to 1.30V
> CPU SA to 1.45V
> 
> The 133:100 ratio is either hidden under Advanced DRAM Configuration, or it's specified on the DRAM Frequency menu



Ahh it's in the dram frequency menu.. I was already using 100:133.. poop I was hoping that setting was going to solve my problems.


----------



## tps3443

Hey everyone! I delidded my 11900K yesterday. First of all my chip wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t a golden sample either. So I delidded it yesterday, and sheered off (16) surface mount SMD’s Components on this CPU. I thought it was dead, so I had no hopes at all.

Turns out, it actually works great! And only pulled 176 [email protected] 42-48C during Cinebench testing. This CPU previously consumed around 200 watts at 53-62C.

She is a real Beast now! Lol.

So anyone worrying about delid. Go for it. I shaved every SMD clean off. And my chip is golden now. I run 5,350 daily all core easy peasy.


I am running direct die with no die frame at all.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> Hey everyone! I delidded my 11900K yesterday. First of all my chip wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t a golden sample either. So I delidded it yesterday, and sheered off (16) surface mount SMD’s Components on this CPU. I thought it was dead, so I had no hopes at all.
> 
> Turns out, it actually works great! And only pulled 176 [email protected] 42-48C during Cinebench testing. This CPU previously consumed around 200 watts at 53-62C.
> 
> She is a real Beast now! Lol.
> 
> So anyone worrying about delid. Go for it. I shaved every SMD clean off. And my chip is golden now. I run 5,350 daily all core easy peasy.
> 
> 
> I am running direct die with no die frame at all.


Wow those temperatures are incredible for direct die! I have never seen anything like it. Can you share Cinebench R20 or R23 score and full HWInfo64?


----------



## gtz

tps3443 said:


> Hey everyone! I delidded my 11900K yesterday. First of all my chip wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t a golden sample either. So I delidded it yesterday, and sheered off (16) surface mount SMD’s Components on this CPU. I thought it was dead, so I had no hopes at all.
> 
> Turns out, it actually works great! And only pulled 176 [email protected] 42-48C during Cinebench testing. This CPU previously consumed around 200 watts at 53-62C.
> 
> She is a real Beast now! Lol.
> 
> So anyone worrying about delid. Go for it. I shaved every SMD clean off. And my chip is golden now. I run 5,350 daily all core easy peasy.
> 
> 
> I am running direct die with no die frame at all.


Good to know a CPU can still run without the SMDs.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> Wow those temperatures are incredible for direct die! I have never seen anything like it. Can you share Cinebench R20 or R23 score and full HWInfo64?


That HWinfo is just a stock CPU with TVB enabled. So that’s just 4.8-5.3Ghz boosting.


----------



## Bakuya

I have kit 2x16gb 4000cl14 1.55

I wanna ask, can it run 5000+ in gear 2 mode? I just wanna try high bandwidth instead of low ns.
Or kit binned only to 4000?


----------



## Groove2013

Bakuya said:


> I have kit 2x16gb 4000cl14 1.55
> 
> I wanna ask, can it run 5000+ in gear 2 mode? I just wanna try high bandwidth instead of low ns.
> Or kit binned only to 4000?


No, Samsung chips, especially 2x16, can't do 5000+ MHz. Just slightly more than 4000 MHz gear 2.


----------



## gtz

0451 said:


> Not the best CPU for Time Spy. Or the best GPU either. But here is the #1 11900K/3090 single GPU score.
> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,ASRock Z590 OC Formula (3dmark.com)
> 
> View attachment 2530795


Freaking impressive CPU score, 16K on 8 cores. I hate that Intel never released Rocket lake for X299 (should work since comet lake was basically Skylake and both architectures work on the same socket). I would have loved a 16 core 11980XE.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

gtz said:


> Freaking impressive CPU score, 16K on 8 cores. I hate that Intel never released Rocket lake for X299 (should work since comet lake was basically Skylake and both architectures work on the same socket). I would have loved a 16 core 11980XE.


Thanks. It would go above 5.5 but I spilled water on my motherboard and bclk overclocking stopped working. I need to RMA.


----------



## bscool

Bakuya said:


> I have kit 2x16gb 4000cl14 1.55
> 
> I wanna ask, can it run 5000+ in gear 2 mode? I just wanna try high bandwidth instead of low ns.
> Or kit binned only to 4000?


You might need to set some different memory algorithms. These are the ones that helped with 4533 to 4700 boot with DR b die. 









Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


Some interesting memtest pictures on the unifyx, looks like they have optimised for dual rank bdie + rocketlake. I'll have to look further into this, I haven't had a good experience with DR so far but maybe they tried something I didn't.




www.overclock.net





I have or had quiet a few top DR b die and the 4000c14 is the hardest to run with 11th gen CPU. 4400c17, 4266c17, 4000c16, 3600c14, 32000c14 all were easier to run at higher clocks in gear 2 on z590 Apex and Unify X when using 11th gen CPU. Using 10th gen CPU 4000c14 work no problem at higher clocks.


----------



## tps3443

Bakuya said:


> I have kit 2x16gb 4000cl14 1.55
> 
> I wanna ask, can it run 5000+ in gear 2 mode? I just wanna try high bandwidth instead of low ns.
> Or kit binned only to 4000?


I can run and game with 5,200 Gear 2 with my 2x8GB kit. I have never ran 2x16GB though.


----------



## tps3443

gtz said:


> Freaking impressive CPU score, 16K on 8 cores. I hate that Intel never released Rocket lake for X299 (should work since comet lake was basically Skylake and both architectures work on the same socket). I would have loved a 16 core 11980XE.


Rocket lake is probably the most underrated cpu ever. Everything about it is BS in 99% of the reviews on the internet. Not one website is willing to be the oddball out and admit that it’s actually a super fast gaming CPU for only being 8/16.

With a 3090 Kingpin that’s overclocked to the moon, running only 2560x1440P resolution I am almost always CPU limited. Even during GPU heavy titles sometimes. The 11900K was really the best option to use. These 8 cores are easily equivalent to the 10 cores from 10th Gen. Then there is latency, the latency is great. Better than any other platform available on the market. Maybe not quite as good as my 10900K was. But, I do still maintain 36NS at only DDR4 3867Mhz in Gear 1. Or run Gear 2 with SUB 80GB memory bandwidth, with around 42NS latency. I’ve hit 40NS latency in Gear 2, but it’s not a daily stable number.

11900K is really a fantastic CPU. I only bought one because my 10900K died. I thought it was the stupid as the internet made me believe. Once I popped it in, I was hooked!

I have a direct die 10850K that runs 5.3Ghz with its eyes closed at 290 watts (It is a freak for being sold as sub par silicon). And the 11900K is still the better option for me.

For people who aren’t actually pushing their CPU’s in a “time is money type situation“ Then absolutely, it’s a great chip.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> Rocket lake is probably the most underrated cpu ever. Everything about it is BS in 99% of the reviews on the internet. Not one website is willing to be the oddball out and admit that it’s actually a super fast gaming CPU for only being 8/16.
> 
> With a 3090 Kingpin that’s overclocked to the moon, running only 2560x1440P resolution I am almost always CPU limited. Even during GPU heavy titles sometimes. The 11900K was really the best option to use. These 8 cores are easily equivalent to the 10 cores from 10th Gen. Then there is latency, the latency is great. Better than any other platform available on the market. Maybe not quite as good as my 10900K was. But, I do still maintain 36NS at only DDR4 3867Mhz in Gear 1. Or run Gear 2 with SUB 80GB memory bandwidth, with around 42NS latency. I’ve hit 40NS latency in Gear 2, but it’s not a daily stable number.
> 
> 11900K is really a fantastic CPU. I only bought one because my 10900K died. I thought it was the stupid as the internet made me believe. Once I popped it in, I was hooked!
> 
> I have a direct die 10850K that runs 5.3Ghz with its eyes closed at 290 watts (It is a freak for being sold as sub par silicon). And the 11900K is still the better option for me.
> 
> For people who aren’t actually pushing their CPU’s in a “time is money type situation“ Then absolutely, it’s a great chip.


I’m definitely binge watching the reviews tomorrow. The 12900K is no joke. I’m with you in that I don’t need one. It won’t unlock any performance at 1440/2160.
Have you ran any benches at 5.4 or 5.5 since delidding? I’m interested in seeing your Time Spy


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Bakuya said:


> I have kit 2x16gb 4000cl14 1.55
> 
> I wanna ask, can it run 5000+ in gear 2 mode? I just wanna try high bandwidth instead of low ns.
> Or kit binned only to 4000?


5066 DR bdie is possible but needs very high bins...

The highest stable freq DDR4 DR I am running is 4600 18-24-42 1T, with Hynix D.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> I’m definitely binge watching the reviews tomorrow. The 12900K is no joke. I’m with you in that I don’t need one. It won’t unlock any performance at 1440/2160.
> Have you ran any benches at 5.4 or 5.5 since delidding? I’m interested in seeing your Time Spy


The 12900K really is a beast! It’s gonna be hard to not grab one. I’m waiting to see what the new Evga boards are gonna be like as well. (I love the bios, and warranty) hopefully I can use the step up program, but I don’t know exactly how that works with motherboards.


Doing a rebuild on the beast. I mounted the radiator like a car. (In the front) lol.


----------



## IronAge

MSI Z590 Unify-X is on sale for about 300$ @ german etailer Mindfactory.de.


----------



## tps3443

This is an easy 5.3Ghz all core with my direct die 11900K. (Bare die, NO IHS, and no die frame at all) bare cpu on a bare socket.

Z590 Dark bios 1.06 has shown tremendous improvements to power. 303 watts at 5.3Ghz. This isn’t chasing numbers yet any means, this is just demonstrating temps.

Man, I love my 11900K, and I love my Z590 Dark!

Such a great CPU.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> This is an easy 5.3Ghz all core with my direct die 11900K. (Bare die, NO IHS, and no die frame at all) bare cpu on a bare socket.
> 
> Z590 Dark bios 1.06 has shown tremendous improvements to power. 303 watts at 5.3Ghz. This isn’t chasing numbers yet any means, this is just demonstrating temps.
> 
> Man, I love my 11900K, and I love my Z590 Dark!
> 
> Such a great CPU.
> View attachment 2531385
> 
> View attachment 2531384
> 
> View attachment 2531381
> 
> View attachment 2531382
> 
> View attachment 2531383
> 
> View attachment 2531380


Nice! Can you run time spy?


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> This is an easy 5.3Ghz all core with my direct die 11900K. (Bare die, NO IHS, and no die frame at all) bare cpu on a bare socket.
> 
> Z590 Dark bios 1.06 has shown tremendous improvements to power. 303 watts at 5.3Ghz. This isn’t chasing numbers yet any means, this is just demonstrating temps.
> 
> Man, I love my 11900K, and I love my Z590 Dark!
> 
> Such a great CPU.
> View attachment 2531385
> 
> View attachment 2531384
> 
> View attachment 2531381
> 
> View attachment 2531382
> 
> View attachment 2531383
> 
> View attachment 2531380


Did you have to modify anything to be able to direct die?
Mine is delidded and I could also try direct die, if you explain.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> Nice! Can you run time spy?


Absolutely.


Groove2013 said:


> Did you have to modify anything to be able to direct die?
> Mine is delidded and I could also try direct die, if you explain.


Remove the Intel ILM on your motherboard, and remove your IHS. Place the CPU in the socket, and just mount your Water-block, just roll with it. The block pressure won’t hurt your cpu die, mine is tightened all the way down. These 11th Gen dies are very thin and pretty wide, the thick substrate prevents flex too. That is one thing about 11th Gen, the design is fantastic. Prior Gen was flexible like two stacked credit cards or something silly lol. They don’t need a die frame at all, or an IHS for that matter.

And CPU removal is quick! Because when you remove your waterblock next time, there will be no CPU in the socket as it’s sticking to the bottom of
your waterblock Lol.

I have never experienced a direct die CPU so easy. Let me tell you, I’ve dealt with direct die pains (Mounting and re-mounting over and ever) dealing with weird core to core temps that aren’t even. This is not like that at all, because the waterblock presses the cpu down in to the socket pins and the die stays totally flat and even to the block. It act like springs all around the cpu

I have mounted it twice so far, and both times the temps were perfect. This is the 4th direct die CPU I have ran. 7980XE, 10900K, 10850K, and 11900K. By far the easiest run them without anything at all. Why the heck we even use a die frame is beyond me.


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> 
> Remove the Intel ILM on your motherboard, and remove your IHS. Place the CPU in the socket, and just mount your Water-block, just roll with it. The block pressure won’t hurt your cpu die, mine is tightened all the way down. These 11th Gen dies are very thin and pretty wide, the thick substrate prevents flex too. That is one thing about 11th Gen, the design is fantastic. Prior Gen was flexible like two stacked credit cards or something silly lol. They don’t need a die frame at all, or an IHS for that matter.
> 
> And CPU removal is quick! Because when you remove your waterblock next time, there will be no CPU in the socket as it’s sticking to the bottom of
> your waterblock Lol.
> 
> I have never experienced a direct die CPU so easy. Let me tell you, I’ve dealt with direct die pains (Mounting and re-mounting over and ever) dealing with weird core to core temps that aren’t even. This is not like that at all, because the waterblock presses the cpu down in to the socket pins and the die stays totally flat and even to the block. It act like springs all around the cpu
> 
> I have mounted it twice so far, and both times the temps were perfect. This is the 4th direct die CPU I have ran. 7980XE, 10900K, 10850K, and 11900K. By far the easiest run them without anything at all. Why the heck we even use a die frame is beyond me.


Have you covered/painted the elements present around the DIE? No need to cut/lower plastic edges of the socket?


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Have you covered/painted the elements present around the DIE? No need to cut/lower plastic edges of the socket?


I did nothing like that. I run a flat test bench. No need to cover anything. I did put a small piece of kapton tape over the row of (16) SMD’s near the die. Or where they once were. I tore those off during the delid by accident.

Anyways, no modification needed.


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> I did nothing like that. I run a flat test bench. No need to cover anything. I did put a small piece of kapton tape over the row of (16) SMD’s near the die. Or where they once were. I tore those off during the delid by accident.
> 
> Anyways, no modification needed.


Have you compared temps vs ihs with liquid metal?
Direct die any better?
Or you went straight from ihs with solder to direct die?


----------



## Groove2013

@cstkl1 is there anything like SA with VDIMM shouldn't be too close to each other or equal or IO with SA on RKL?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @cstkl1 is there anything like SA with VDIMM shouldn't be too close to each other or equal or IO with SA on RKL?


SA and MCio voltage

mcio seems to affect rtl
sa this problematic for DR


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> SA and MCio voltage
> 
> mcio seems to affect rtl
> sa this problematic for DR


What do you mean with SA and IO?

What is the problem with dual rank sticks and SA? That 2 DR sticks accept less voltage than 4 SR sticks and 4 SR sticks accept less voltage than 2 SR sticks?

Went down from 4000 MHz 1.52 V SA to 3960 MHz 1.455 SA (Prime95 stable) on my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP and could further lower tRFC and some tertiary timings.

Don't know if it's my specific kit that needs so much SA for 4000 MHz while doing worse tRFC and some tertiary than at 3960 MHz or if it's the IMC.

And now testing IO, also in Prime95.
Went down from 1.45 V to 1.09 V and it's already running for 7 hours.
Takes almost 12 hours to complete all K values from 4 to 8192.

Maybe with a 4000 CL14 kit I will be able to do 4000 MHz while keeping all the timings as low as possible and not going to 1.52 SA.

Or maybe it's the IMC that requires so much SA...
Or it's because of so tight timings and 4000 MHz.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> What do you mean with SA and IO?
> 
> What is the problem with dual rank sticks and SA? That 2 DR sticks accept less voltage than 4 SR sticks and 4 SR sticks accept less voltage than 2 SR sticks?
> 
> Went down from 4000 MHz 1.52 V SA to 3960 MHz 1.455 SA (Prime95 stable) on my 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP and could further lower tRFC and some tertiary timings.
> 
> Don't know if it's my specific kit that needs so much SA for 4000 MHz while doing worse tRFC and some tertiary than at 3960 MHz or if it's the IMC.
> 
> And now testing IO, also in Prime95.
> Went down from 1.45 V to 1.09 V and it's already running for 7 hours.
> Takes almost 12 hours to complete all K values from 4 to 8192.
> 
> Maybe with a 4000 CL14 kit I will be able to do 4000 MHz while keeping all the timings as low as possible and not going to 1.52 SA.
> 
> Or maybe it's the IMC that requires so much SA...
> Or it's because of so tight timings and 4000 MHz.


DR havent u noticed VTT best @0.85v
which can reduce SA required
which is one of the key voltage to pass TM5 1usmusV3

hence Init VTT during training 1/2 of your vdimm and bump to 0.85v eventual

it has no effect for hynix dr, bdie SR but only for bdie DR

it was also key for 4533/4600 gear 2.

mcio actual value is best tested with dram fastboot disable. so you can see the training requirement


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> DR havent u noticed VTT best @0.85v
> which can reduce SA required
> which is one of the key voltage to pass TM5 1usmusV3
> 
> hence Init VTT during training 1/2 of your vdimm and bump to 0.85v eventual
> 
> it has no effect for hynix dr, bdie SR but only for bdie DR
> 
> it was also key for 4533/4600 gear 2.
> 
> mcio actual value is best tested with dram fastboot disable. so you can see the training requirement


I always keep fastboot disabled, so it trains every boot.


----------



## Groove2013

@cstkl1 there is no initial DRAM VTT Voltage, only DRAM VTT Voltage.
So it must be this one that is the initial then?

Eventual I found, yes.
Are you sure it's 0.85 V eventual and not 0.805 V? It isn't an error from you writing the message?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> @cstkl1 there is no initial DRAM VTT Voltage, only DRAM VTT Voltage.
> So it must be this one that is the initial then?
> 
> Eventual I found, yes.
> Are you sure it's 0.85 V eventual and not 0.805 V? It isn't an error from you writing the message?


eventual 0.85v have a try

vtt normal is during training. 

have a try. few ppl already this is what held their dr sticks on gear 1


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> eventual 0.85v have a try
> 
> vtt normal is during training.
> 
> have a try. few ppl already this is what held their dr sticks on gear 1


So DRAM VTT Voltage is *initial* DRAM VTT Voltage then.

I will see if I can obtain lower SA with eventual VTT of 0.85 V.


----------



## YaqY

Groove2013 said:


> So DRAM VTT Voltage is *initial* DRAM VTT Voltage then.
> 
> I will see if I can obtain lower SA with eventual VTT of 0.85 V.


You set the dram vtt voltage to auto (1/2 vdimm), eventual vtt is the VTT you will get in os, but it trains at the 1/2vdimm value. I have heard it can help to tinker with eventual.


----------



## Groove2013

I increased SA again to 1.52 V + eventual VTT to 0.85 V and I'm testing a complete cycle of Prime95 (non-AVX) to see if I can stabilise 4000 MHz (BCLK 100) at 1.52 V SA and if this works, I then will see if and by how much I can lower SA from 1.52 V, because I don't want SA to constantly stay at such high/limit value.


----------



## Groove2013

4000 MHz 1:1 requires SA higher than 1.5 V for Prime95 (non-AVX) and that with slightly worse tRFC and few other tertiary timings vs. 3960 MHz, which makes less than 1% difference.

So I will stay with 3960 MHz 1:1 and SA not higher than 1.45 V, if not even less than that.
No point in doing >1.5 V SA for less than 1% perf difference.


----------



## Groove2013

Why exactly 3960 MHz (BCLK 99.05)?
Just because this number and also 5.05 and 4.55 GHz cores and cache is easier, more pleasant to read/remember.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> Nice! Can you run time spy?


Here you go. Nothing crazy. That’s just the Kingpin OC bios (450 watts)

This was just a single run. (No benching for numbers at all) but it ran incredibly well, I’m gonna flash the 1KW KP bios and get back in to the groove again.

PS: bios 1.06 for the EVGA Z590 dark has totally transformed my CPU in to a good sample. The Z590 Dark was late to the party. It dumped off like 36 watts in power consumption in my Cinebench runs using the exact same OC profiles.


----------



## Geekounet

Guys is it a good idea to delid my 11700k after what happened to @MoeBen? :/


----------



## Groove2013

Geekounet said:


> Guys is it a good idea to delid my 11700k after what happened to @MoeBen? :/


Has nothing to do with him.
Depends entirely and only on your knowledge/experience and accuracy.


----------



## Geekounet

Groove2013 said:


> Has nothing to do with him.
> Depends entirely and only on your knowledge/experience and accuracy.


I mean he had a bad experience so i don't want to reproduce this mistake and as there's smd on the back i'm worried about trying it...


----------



## Groove2013

Geekounet said:


> I mean he had a bad experience so i don't want to reproduce this mistake and as there's smd on the back i'm worried about trying it...


Depends only on you.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> I mean he had a bad experience so i don't want to reproduce this mistake and as there's smd on the back i'm worried about trying it...


After I delidded my 11900K (2) people have attempted after seeing my results. both of them have broken 11900K’s. Absolutely destroyed CPU’s.

You can do it. It’s all about concentration.

Just be careful.

The first is a member on another forum. He completely ripped the silicon die off the substrate. The second is another member who accidentally bakes it too hot.

Delidding is greatly worth the risk! Just becareful. Im
running my cpu right now, and the work
paid off, I was very careful, tedious, and went slow. I thought so hard about breaking it the entire time, it somehow made it through. (Maybe I just got lucky) I’ve delidded numerous other processors without any problems







Not showing you this to discourage you. Only that this can happen! It’s very real.

Be very careful caution advised!


----------



## Geekounet

Do you think i should use a delid tool like this one Direct Die Frame per Intel 1200 11th gen - i5 i7 i9 11600K 11700K 11900K - Delid | eBay "specifiied for 11th gen" or just go with another method & try it patiently and gently?


----------



## Bakuya

Hello, i now have random freezing programs like chrome and from microsoft store.. it is related to ram?

How to solve..

Thanks and best regards.

Can somebody give stable daily cmo for 2x16 c14 4000 and M13H.


----------



## Groove2013

Found 100% stable in Prime95 for 12 hours min IO at 1.112 V.
SA is also 12 hours stable at 1.451 V.

This is for 3960 MHz 14-15-15-15-229-2T 1:1 BCLK 99.05 MHz.

Now I test to see if less than 1.451 V SA is possible and then will see by how much I can drop VDIMM from 1.611 V.


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Found 100% stable in Prime95 for 12 hours min IO at 1.112 V.
> SA is also 12 hours stable at 1.451 V.
> 
> This is for 3960 MHz 14-15-15-15-229-2T 1:1 BCLK 99.05 MHz.
> 
> Now I test to see if less than 1.451 V SA is possible and then will see by how much I can drop VDIMM from 1.611 V.


Thats awesome. My CPU isn’t that great. No more than 3867-3882 gear 1. Your CPU IMC is crazy good though.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Do you think i should use a delid tool like this one Direct Die Frame per Intel 1200 11th gen - i5 i7 i9 11600K 11700K 11900K - Delid | eBay "specifiied for 11th gen" or just go with another method & try it patiently and gently?


That is not a delid tool. That is a die frame so you can run the CPU without the IHS. I wouldn’t recommend delidding it unless your experienced with doing so.


FYI this is what you need to delid the cpu.










ROCKIT Delid & Relid Tool Kit - Intel CPUs


Rockit Delid / Relid Tool Kit - Intel CPUs Complete kit with delid tool and relid guides for 3rd to 10th Gen CPUs Safe delidding for the enthusiast. Newly redesigned to be safer, more precise and faster to use. Precision CNC machined Designed to safely delid Intel CPUs from 3rd to 10th Gen All...




rockitcool.myshopify.com


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> Thats awesome. My CPU isn’t that great. No more than 3867-3882 gear 1. Your CPU IMC is crazy good though.


But its cores are rated only as SP45, after updating to BIOS 1202 (Apex).


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> But its cores are rated only as SP45, after updating to BIOS 1202 (Apex).


I gotcha. Yeah I can run 5.3Ghz 1.426V 300 watts 100% stable with the memory at 3744Mhz CL14-14-14-30-1T. V droop is set to -75% less voltage drop. Voltage is just set to auto.

Very very low I/O & S/A voltages. 

If I want to run 3,867Mhz I have to start dumping I/O & S/A voltages to like 1.550V each. And I need to send even more cpu voltage.

The trade off isn’t really worth it. So I’m sticking with 3,744Mhz Gear 1 with higher core clocks.

I have another D5 pump Coming, and I may lap my die as well. I almost have 5.4Ghz 100% stable


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> That is not a delid tool. That is a die frame so you can run the CPU without the IHS. I wouldn’t recommend delidding it unless your experienced with doing so.
> 
> 
> FYI this is what you need to delid the cpu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROCKIT Delid & Relid Tool Kit - Intel CPUs
> 
> 
> Rockit Delid / Relid Tool Kit - Intel CPUs Complete kit with delid tool and relid guides for 3rd to 10th Gen CPUs Safe delidding for the enthusiast. Newly redesigned to be safer, more precise and faster to use. Precision CNC machined Designed to safely delid Intel CPUs from 3rd to 10th Gen All...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rockitcool.myshopify.com


Thanks a lot man, it was wrote delid tool that's why i thought it was, anyway i think i'm not going to take the risk


----------



## Vld

After updating Apex XIII board to 1202 SP rating dropped from 50 to ...

45 !🤣


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> I gotcha. Yeah I can run 5.3Ghz 1.426V 300 watts 100% stable with the memory at 3744Mhz CL14-14-14-30-1T. V droop is set to -75% less voltage drop. Voltage is just set to auto.
> 
> Very very low I/O & S/A voltages.
> 
> If I want to run 3,867Mhz I have to start dumping I/O & S/A voltages to like 1.550V each. And I need to send even more cpu voltage.
> 
> The trade off isn’t really worth it. So I’m sticking with 3,744Mhz Gear 1 with higher core clocks.
> 
> I have another D5 pump Coming, and I may lap my die as well. I almost have 5.4Ghz 100% stable


My final SA and IO are 1.451 V and 1.112 V (complete custom run of non-AVX Prime95 29.8 build 6 with FFTs in-place) for 2x16 GB 3960 MHz 14-15-15-15-229-2T gear 1 BCLK 99.05 MHz.
Now testing VDIMM to see if I can do 1.593 V instead of 1.611 V.


----------



## Groove2013

@tps3443 what's the model of your RAM kit?
Mine is 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP from January 2021.

1T brings almost nothing, but requires much higher voltages.
Try 2T and is it 16 or 32 GB that you have?


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> @tps3443 what's the model of your RAM kit?
> Mine is 2x16 GB 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP from January 2021.
> 
> 1T brings almost nothing, but requires much higher voltages.
> Try 2T and is it 16 or 32 GB that you have?


I run G.Skill Royal-Z (4x8GB) 4000CL15 @1.5V XMP.

I can only run 2x8GB of it though, because I only have 2 dimm slots.



https://pcpartpicker.com/product/2VbCmG/gskill-trident-z-royal-32-gb-4-x-8-gb-ddr4-4000-memory-f4-4000c15q-32gtrg




My IMC just isn’t that great. So far I do have 3744 CL13-13-13-30-248-1T though. Im going to continue testing my latency/bandwidth is good enough for daily settings. It does SUB 61GBPS bandwidth, and 36.4ns latency.


1T shows a massive different in latency on my motherboard for some reason (I dunno why but it does). Unfortunately 1T or 2T makes no difference in my ability to run a faster frequency in gear (1) though. I managed to get 3,900Mhz to post one time. (It never happen again)


----------



## MoeBen

Geekounet said:


> Guys is it a good idea to delid my 11700k after what happened to @MoeBen? :/


Oh im here .. and that chip is alive lol it was a mounting/pressure issue


----------



## Geekounet

MoeBen said:


> Oh im here .. and that chip is alive lol it was a mounting/pressure issue


Oh niiiiiiiiiiiiiice, i'm glad to hear that man, any advice maybe? you did it with the delid tool? what about the smd's on the side of the lid? thanks


----------



## MoeBen

I used rockit cool tool delid tool for rocket-lake just line up the arrows and screw in


----------



## Geekounet

MoeBen said:


> I used rockit cool tool delid tool for rocket-lake just line up the arrows and screw in


Amazing, do you think i should go direct to die with a Cooler Master AIO? in the beginning i just wanted to change the paste...


----------



## MoeBen

Geekounet said:


> Amazing, do you think i should go direct to die with a Cooler Master AIO? basically i just wanted to change the paste...


I'm not sure the cooler master stock mounting system is optimal for direct die .... in my experience it's always better with custom loops


----------



## Geekounet

MoeBen said:


> I'm not sure the cooler master stock mounting system is optimal for direct die .... in my experience it's always better with custom loops


Okay thanks, gonna go with the old school method: change the paste


----------



## MoeBen

Lap your IHS


----------



## Geekounet

MoeBen said:


> Lap your IHS


Yes gonna do it too, thanks brah


----------



## MoeBen

Geekounet said:


> Yes gonna do it too, thanks brah



Anytime !


----------



## geriatricpollywog




----------



## D-EJ915

Most people probably not too interested anymore but the Z590 apex is 509 dollars on amazon which is the lowest I've seen.


----------



## Nizzen

D-EJ915 said:


> Most people probably not too interested anymore but the Z590 apex is 509 dollars on amazon which is the lowest I've seen.


Price went down 25% on Apex z590 after z690 release. Sold my 11900k and Apex z590 last week to a friend. 
Z590 apex is worth like 300$ now in my opinion.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Apex was always a $300 motherboard with a $300 buos.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

What do you guys think?

Buy a Apex XIII and 11900k BNIB from a local ad for $1000 CAD? Or wait for a 12900k system. I'd have to wait for the Apex Z690 next month or longer, also for some DDR5 to be in stock. I could use my old 3600MHz 16GB sticks for the apex Z590. Or should I just stick with my 10980xe and Rampage Apex? hmm. Thanks guys.


----------



## YaqY

MrTOOSHORT said:


> What do you guys think?
> 
> Buy a Apex XIII and 11900k BNIB from a local ad for $1000 CAD? Or wait for a 12900k system. I'd have to wait for the Apex Z690 next month or longer, also for some DDR5 to be in stock. I could use my old 3600MHz 16GB sticks for the apex Z590. Or should I just stick with my 10980xe and Rampage Apex? hmm. Thanks guys.


I would wait if you can get ADL personally with a decent set of hynix/Samsung ddr5.


----------



## bscool

@MrTOOSHORT No way I would buy or recommend 11th gen when for similar or less $ you can buy 12th gen and even with ddr4 out perform it all around in pretty much every area. I would take a 12600 or 12700k over 11900k. Even cheap $200-300 MB people are running 3866-4000 gear 1 on z690.

I have muliple z490 and 2 11900k systems so I am not biased or basing it off of some kind of loyalty some people seem to have when they own something. Just look at the data and it is clear the older gens are a behind unless they can be had super cheap.

Edit added review testing 12900k and 12600k with ddr5 and ddr4 against 11900k









CapFrameX - Alder Lake-S 12900K is the new Gaming King - Blog


Intel launches Alder Lake-S and a new hybrid era begins for the desktop




www.capframex.com


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Hey thanks guys, I'll just wait for the new stuff. My set up will be ok for now


----------



## kevintuna

Hi there.. I'm currently working on overclocking my b die on a i9 11900k... I'm wondering whats safe daily voltages for RKL (IO2) and SA voltage..

I'm getting nice results in gear 1.. but I'm at 1.55 on both of those to make it happen. What's safe here for 11th Gen? Thanks


----------



## TheSteez

0451 said:


> Apex was always a $300 motherboard with a $300 buos.


Yo for real, i'm on an apex for the first time and the bios is like heaven compared to gigabyte. Now I really understand what all the rave was about. #seeing is believing lol


----------



## Nonesenze81

Is there a big difference between the apex bios and the hero bios?


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> @MrTOOSHORT No way I would buy or recommend 11th gen when for similar or less $ you can buy 12th gen and even with ddr4 out perform it all around in pretty much every area. I would take a 12600 or 12700k over 11900k. Even cheap $200-300 MB people are running 3866-4000 gear 1 on z690.
> 
> I have muliple z490 and 2 11900k systems so I am not biased or basing it off of some kind of loyalty some people seem to have when they own something. Just look at the data and it is clear the older gens are a behind unless they can be had super cheap.
> 
> Edit added review testing 12900k and 12600k with ddr5 and ddr4 against 11900k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CapFrameX - Alder Lake-S 12900K is the new Gaming King - Blog
> 
> 
> Intel launches Alder Lake-S and a new hybrid era begins for the desktop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.capframex.com


While these numbers may be helpful, and 12th Gen is probably the way to go for most people upgrading. The fact of the matter is that 11th Gen runs like a turd in every review in existence in its stock form, just like the one above.

So while the numbers for the 11900K are not the strongest around. What happens when we add 500Mhz to the all core boost in these charts? Or if we also run Gear 1 memory at 500-800Mhz faster with CL13-CL14 instead of CL16. These are factors to consider when someone is buying a platform or if someone is going to upgrade from their existing gaming platform.

I am speaking from purely gaming performance and FPS. My point here is a well tuned 11900K is extremely competitive and could potentially compete or stay competitive with the low to mid range 12th Gen systems.


I’m highly interested in 12th Gen running gear 1 after seeing the above review though.! The results look incredible!

Why do rocket lake and alder Lake benefit so well from gear 1? That 12900K picked up like 6-7% more FPS just from 3200 to 3700 gear 1.

The 12600K also looks really good so far!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> While these numbers may be helpful, and 12th Gen is probably the way to go for most people upgrading. The fact of the matter is that 11th Gen runs like a turd in every review in existence in its stock form, just like the one above.
> 
> So while the numbers for the 11900K are not the strongest around. What happens when we add 500Mhz to the all core boost in these charts? Or if we also run Gear 1 memory at 500-800Mhz faster with CL13-CL14 instead of CL16. These are factors to consider when someone is buying a platform or if someone is going to upgrade from their existing gaming platform.
> 
> I am speaking from purely gaming performance and FPS. My point here is a well tuned 11900K is extremely competitive and could potentially compete or stay competitive with the low to mid range 12th Gen systems.
> 
> 
> I’m highly interested in 12th Gen running gear 1 after seeing the above review though.! The results look incredible!
> 
> Why do rocket lake and alder Lake benefit so well from gear 1? That 12900K picked up like 6-7% more FPS just from 3200 to 3700 gear 1.
> 
> The 12600K also looks really good so far!


Keep your 11900K if you aren’t upgrading to DDR5.


----------



## kevintuna

0451 said:


> Keep your 11900K if you aren’t upgrading to DDR5.


Hey there brother brother, you've helped me before. Do you have any idea what the safe IO2 (RKL) voltage is for daily use?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

kevintuna said:


> Hey there brother brother, you've helped me before. Do you have any idea what the safe IO2 (RKL) voltage is for daily use?


Sorry I don’t. I just retired my 11900K after 5 months running whatever voltages work. It hasn’t degraded!


----------



## kevintuna

0451 said:


> Sorry I don’t. I just retired my 11900K after 5 months running whatever voltages work. It hasn’t degraded!


What were you running IO2 at?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

kevintuna said:


> What were you running IO2 at?


I never adjusted that. Board is AsRock Z590 OC Formula. PM if you want to buy my CPU/mobo


----------



## kevintuna

Still looking for safe daily IO2 (RKL) voltage if anyone reads this. Struggling to find much info online. Thanks


----------



## tps3443

kevintuna said:


> Still looking for safe daily IO2 (RKL) voltage if anyone reads this. Struggling to find much info online. Thanks



Hey IO2 is the same as VCCIO AUX or memory auxiliary voltage. Motherboard bios call
is different things. 1.550V is totally safe for daily a max.


I have ran as much as 1.600V to the S/A voltage daily. 1.400V to the VCCIO, and 1.600 to the VCCIO Memory, (or AKA VCCIO2 that you are referring to)


You‘ll be just fine with up to 1.550V to that item your wondering about. 1.550 would probably be the safe daily maximum ceiling for 24/7 usage.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> Keep your 11900K if you aren’t upgrading to DDR5.


Waiting on the Z690 Dark KP.


----------



## kevintuna

tps3443 said:


> Hey IO2 is the same as VCCIO AUX or memory auxiliary voltage. Motherboard bios call
> is different things. 1.550V is totally safe for daily a max.
> 
> 
> I have ran as much as 1.600V to the S/A voltage daily. 1.400V to the VCCIO, and 1.600 to the VCCIO Memory, (or AKA VCCIO2 that you are referring to)
> 
> 
> You‘ll be just fine with up to 1.550V to that item your wondering about. 1.550 would probably be the safe daily maximum ceiling for 24/7 usage.


Thanks for the reply. You're the first person to tell me it's safe.. but I assumed it was.. it's going that high in auto regardless.


----------



## tps3443

kevintuna said:


> Thanks for the reply. You're the first person to tell me it's safe.. but I assumed it was.. it's going that high in auto regardless.



Yeah these voltages are needed for for my system as well, when running 3,867Mhz or higher in Gear 1.

I run 3,880Mhz CL14 gear 1 and I run 1.550V 24/7 usage. It’s actually sending around 1.565-1.575 under loads per my Z590 dark and a volt meter.

I have not had any issues with my platform or any sort of CPU degradation. I trust it 100%.


----------



## kevintuna

tps3443 said:


> Yeah these voltages are needed for for my system as well, when running 3,867Mhz or higher in Gear 1.
> 
> I run 3,880Mhz CL14 gear 1 and I run 1.550V 24/7 usage. It’s actually sending around 1.565-1.575 under loads per my Z590 dark and a volt meter.
> 
> I have not had any issues with my platform or any sort of CPU degradation. I trust it 100%.


Sweet I'll do the same then. How would I know or tell if cpu degradation was happening? Thanks


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> Yeah these voltages are needed for for my system as well, when running 3,867Mhz or higher in Gear 1.
> 
> I run 3,880Mhz CL14 gear 1 and I run 1.550V 24/7 usage. It’s actually sending around 1.565-1.575 under loads per my Z590 dark and a volt meter.
> 
> I have not had any issues with my platform or any sort of CPU degradation. I trust it 100%.


What voltages did you run on your 10900K during it’s lifespan before it went poof?


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> What voltages did you run on your 10900K during it’s lifespan before it went poof?



I ran the 10900K at 1.590-1.630+ I/O + S/A voltages (This is with extreme voltages enabled going past that 1.550 safe zone) but I don’t think this was what caused it. I have a super good 10850K that I delidded, that I have also ran like this without any issues at all.

I think the 10900K has a broken trace on top
of the substrate from the prior owner delidding it that caused its doom.

His delid tool damaged the top substrate chipping off some of the green substrate material, this area goes right through a trace. It worked when I received it, and it ran ok for a few weeks.

However, my 11900K has ran flawlessly with these voltages. Which is the only reason I’d recommend it. (Extreme voltages is disabled in the bios) and it runs like a top. I was leery getting back in to these voltages again after the 10900K died, but the fact is I have never killed a CPU before.


This is a picture of the top of the 10900K it looks kinda jacked up. (I didn’t delid this one) to be honest I don’t even know how a delid tool can do that. But I think that has something to do with it being broken. This 10900K was also previously ran direct die with a water chiller at like 5.7+ on another members system. Who knows, it just died. I may try it again. But you can see the marks go overtop of 1 trace, and cover half or more of another trace.


----------



## Nonesenze81

i need some advise, i am new to memory overclocking and i do not know anything about it, i have 4x8gb micron rev e 3600 cl18 think it is 18-22-22-42 if i remember correct, so if i change the mhz at all it wont boot
so far i have tried 3866 and set the voltage to both 1.4 and 1.45 and no go, i have tried to set 1:1 and 100:133 and no boot, i kinda need a starting point and what other settings i should try to get it to boot or should i lower mhz and try timings instead? can i leave all these sa and io settings at auto?
i have m13h and 11900k sp45, was sp50 before 1202 bios


----------



## tps3443

Nonesenze81 said:


> i need some advise, i am new to memory overclocking and i do not know anything about it, i have 4x8gb micron rev e 3600 cl18 think it is 18-22-22-42 if i remember correct, so if i change the mhz at all it wont boot
> so far i have tried 3866 and set the voltage to both 1.4 and 1.45 and no go, i have tried to set 1:1 and 100:133 and no boot, i kinda need a starting point and what other settings i should try to get it to boot or should i lower mhz and try timings instead? can i leave all these sa and io settings at auto?
> i have m13h and 11900k sp45, was sp50 before 1202 bios


I wouldn’t worry too much about overclocking your memory like that, or trying for super low main timings. what you need to do is just setup your secondary timings properly. And you’ll see a drastic performance jump for latency and bandwidth while still being stable.


First of all 

Set your tREFI to (65000) and set your tFAW to (30) then you reduce your tRFC as much as possibly stable. I would try like 400-500 tRFC at first and then work down from there.

I run my tREFI at 65,000 my tFAW at 16, and my tRFC at 266 however I am using top tier Samsung Bdie.

You can get great performance out of this.

PS; I would this advise for any and all memory. XMP profiles are crap. But set XMP and just revise it from there.


----------



## Nonesenze81

Ok. But remember í am á noob at this án í cannot find trefi or tfaw in my bios. Ony thing if í search is trefix9 and it is set to auto

i really need a friend to come and help me with this , i found that setting for 65000 and that gave me a boost but the rest i am still searching for, all the info that i search for is all called something else trdi. ddrirt. brrrttr. wth. why is there not a law that would make them call it the same


----------



## tps3443

Nonesenze81 said:


> Ok. But remember í am á noob at this án í cannot find trefi or tfaw in my bios. Ony thing if í search is trefix9 and it is set to auto
> 
> i really need a friend to come and help me with this , i found that setting for 65000 and that gave me a boost but the rest i am still searching for, all the info that i search for is all called something else trdi. ddrirt. brrrttr. wth. why is there not a law that would make them call it the same


I would work on learning your bios really well. One reason I love the EVGA bios, we have the most simplistic bios available. Only the meaty options are available, no extra fluff needed.

Try and enable advanced memory timings options in your bios menu? What kinda of motherboard do you have?


----------



## Nonesenze81

i have asus m13 hero


----------



## Groove2013

Nonesenze81 said:


> i have asus m13 hero


Just go through all the sections of your BIOS and see what is where.

If you're not willing /able to do this, then there is no point in talking about RAM OC.


----------



## Nonesenze81

ok if i change my tRFC to anything else than auto i get stuck on boot error, any idea why or what else i should try to get it lower? i have mine running now on 16-22-22-40 t2 1.45v and i just changed the tREFI to 65000
for some reason i have 3 tRFC settings 1 2 and 3
maximus 13 hero board

getting now pretty good results with 57200mb read and 48ns latency


----------



## Bakuya

So 12 bios seems increase performance and ram oc, but fecreasing sp from 50 to 45.

Need more research, btw why ASUS do not drop new bioses to web since 11 bios betareleased so long ago


----------



## bscool

Pretty dead before release platform, What more magic can a bios update do? 🤣

I kid I kid RKL for life  I dont think there is anything really to be sqeezed out of RKL it was maxed from the start by IMC. If you dont get a good one you are limited to 3600-3733 gear 1 no matter what bios.


----------



## Bakuya

bscool said:


> Pretty dead before release platform, What more magic can a bios update do? 🤣
> 
> I kid I kid RKL for life  I dont think there is anything really to be sqeezed out of RKL it was maxed from the start by IMC. If you dont get a good one you are limited to 3600-3733 gear 1 no matter what bios.


Even fix bugs with usb ports stop responding sometimes would be good.

So i raiset photoworkxx from 39 000 to about 40500 but i see here better result around 43k points.

Ram 2x16 4000 runing 3866 14 15 t2 G1.
Cpu 53 on two and res 51 with 1.42 vcore in bios.
Dont know what to change to raise photoworxx, CB23 16500

Also found c states on reduce my random write and read iops on 980 pro.
But now i stuck at rnd read at 1.1million iops and write only 400k.

Maybe somebody know the stuff i do wrong.


----------



## freddy85

I'm struggling to overclock my cache on 11700k, I can get it running a 4,4 GHz in windows and normal usage but during gaming I can get sudden application crashes. This happens also as low as 4,2 GHz but not so often, is this just silicon lotterly or is it something i can tweak in bios?
My voltages during cinebench, core overclock 5ghz, boost 5,2(all auto):


----------



## tps3443

Hey everyone. So I have another 11900K on the way. As I have said before, 11th Gen platform once fully tuned out provides top tier gaming performance. So, I’m going to stay on my Z590 Dark and 11900K. I have a new retail 11900K in route. I’m curious about how good it’s IMC is, and the actual core overclocking ability too.

I plan to delid this 11900K as I did my other one.

It’s exciting testing new CPU’s.

I also went for some dual rank DDR4. I ordered Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 3600 CL14 in (2x16GB)

Hoping to eek out a little more performance VS. my current single rank memory. 
This [email protected] is a straight beast in battlefield 2042. It’s impressive to see this little 8/16 cpu push a 3090KP HC Overclocked out to some really fast levels.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> Hey everyone. So I have another 11900K on the way. As I have said before, 11th Gen platform once fully tuned out provides top tier gaming performance. So, I’m going to stay on my Z590 Dark and 11900K. I have a new retail 11900K in route. I’m curious about how good it’s IMC is, and the actual core overclocking ability too.
> 
> I plan to delid this 11900K as I did my other one.
> 
> It’s exciting testing new CPU’s.
> 
> I also went for some dual rank DDR4. I ordered Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 3600 CL14 in (2x16GB)
> 
> Hoping to eek out a little more performance VS. my current single rank memory.
> This [email protected] is a straight beast in battlefield 2042. It’s impressive to see this little 8/16 cpu push a 3090KP HC Overclocked out to some really fast levels.


I would have sold you mine. 5.4ghz non-delidded.


----------



## tps3443

freddy85 said:


> I'm struggling to overclock my cache on 11700k, I can get it running a 4,4 GHz in windows and normal usage but during gaming I can get sudden application crashes. This happens also as low as 4,2 GHz but not so often, is this just silicon lotterly or is it something i can tweak in bios?
> My voltages during cinebench, core overclock 5ghz, boost 5,2(all auto):
> 
> 
> View attachment 2533681


Higher cache OC requires much higher cpu core voltages. For example, I can run 5.3Ghz on all cores at 1.405V on my 11900K with my cache at 4.1Ghz. And the CPU is 100% stable. However, running a 4,500 cache requires much more voltage demand to each core around 1.435-1.480

I would be after 42-43 on the cache and you should be ok. I run mine at 4.37Ghz daily with the cpu at 5.4Ghz all cores. My cache can overclock even up to 4.7Ghz and run stable. But that’s only with a maximum CPU overclock of like 5.2Ghz all cores. So, I settle for 5.4Ghz cpu and around 4.3-4.4 cache.

Realistically though, if I had an 11700k. I’d be after like 40-42 on the cache. And highest possible core Overclock. The higher the cache OC, the worse the CPU drinks and needs more voltage to maintain an overclock.

You’ve just gotta find that balance. The cache helps drops memory latency. But the cache will direct affect how bad your overclock will
be, or how easy it’s gonna be to stabilize it.


----------



## tps3443

0451 said:


> I would have sold you mine. 5.4ghz non-delidded.


Yeah, I would have loved to have gotten it. I ended up trading my 5.4Ghz 10850K and $250 for a retail sealed 11900K. So it’s a gamble on how good it may or may not be. I like the 11900K Very fun CPU.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> Yeah, I would have loved to have gotten it. I ended up trading my 5.4Ghz 10850K and $250 for a retail sealed 11900K. So it’s a gamble on how good it may or may not be.


I still have it and am typing this message on it. So let me know


----------



## bscool

geriatricpollywog said:


> I still have it and am typing this message on it. So let me know


Plus you have a awesome IMC. Your mem kit and CPU is a dream combo for 11th gen.


----------



## tps3443

Yeah I’m ok. I can’t spend anymore money on my self during the holidays on PC parts lol. I did get my self a dual rank memory kit though.


----------



## tps3443

New victim is here!!! Gonna test it out, and I may or may not delid it depending on how well it performs. 11900K will be going in my wife’s home/work computer. My wife just started working from home, so an 11900K will be overkill for that.


----------



## tps3443

This 11900K is a GEM so far guys!! 0.919V in the bios stock, with 148 watts power consumption in R15 stock.


Impressive so far!!! Very much so!!


----------



## D-EJ915

tps3443 said:


> This 11900K is a GEM so far guys!! 0.919V in the bios stock, with 148 watts power consumption in R15 stock.
> 
> 
> Impressive so far!!! Very much so!!


nice, what's the batch lot on it


----------



## tps3443

D-EJ915 said:


> nice, what's the batch lot on it



Honestly, I don’t know lol. Because the batch number on the box is mysteriously different than what is listed on the cpu it’s self. And the cpu it’s self is in my computer.

I know it starts with X135M not certain of the rest though.

The box does not belong to the chip. I obtained it from another member, and they got it from Walmart.

This is 5.4Ghz. The chip just feels right at home at such a frequency. It runs this like it’s nothing as a daily speed.

It’s amazing how two processors can both be labeled as 11900K’s. But they are so different from one another.


----------



## Jwick

the gflop variation is because i opened hwinfo at 50ms so yea some runs its closed, some runs its open so thats why the glops are lower certain runs. 1.48v sa. 1.4v io2. 1.58v dimm. 24c water(lower sa is possible, but gave a bit of headroom). it will boot consistently all the way upto 28c water temp at 1.48v sa. (i have a chiller so i have accurate temp control and monitoring). roughly dropping 5c nets 25mhz . i have booted 4000 c13-14 at 11c water 1.52v sa ,havnt optimized voltage yet. my sub zero daily setup still isnt finished, its taking a bit longer than expected , will update.


----------



## tps3443

My new golden 5.4Ghz 310 watt 11900K, runs 4,000 gear 1!!! I’m shocked!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Looking good. Now you gotta stabilize


----------



## Solohuman

Guys, is their a way to discover the SP rating on a Gigabyte board, or is this an Asus thing?


----------



## tps3443

@geriatricpollywog


Hey, still tuning everything. Everything about this chip is amazing. The IMC does straight 4000 gear (1) I have yet to hit a wall on the IMC it’s self. So far, it has more left in it. The cache is also stable at 47, and may also go a little further. (But the cache is probably nearing it’s limits)

5.4Ghz is good with 1.470V in the bios. 5.3Ghz is good with 1.355V in the bios. And manages around 254 watts for 5.3Ghz, and 310 watts for 5.4Ghz. Stretching the cache to 4.7Ghz while running 5.4Ghz increases power to around 317-318 watts. And the CPU must have 1.485V in the bios to stabilize the 5.4Ghz all core OC with 47 cache OC on top.

I feel like I’m nearing the limits of my memory it’s self. And not the IMC at all.

I/O and S/A voltages are at a safe 1.400V each. And I will begin to reduce once I stabilize everything.

This CPU is not even delidded yet, and it has proven to be an amazing sample 11900K.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> @geriatricpollywog


Latency is in the bank but bandwidth is in the dumpster. Do you have any screens with HCI memtest to 200%?


----------



## tps3443

geriatricpollywog said:


> Latency is in the bank but bandwidth is in the dumpster. Do you have any screens with HCI memtest to 200%?


I haven’t gotten that far yet at all, haven’t even attempted. I dont even know if my memory can keep up. It is Dominator platinum 3600CL14 dual rank Samsung B-Die. I’m already feeding 1.65V to it.

Probably gonna be memory shopping again lol. I didn’t think I’d actually need 4000+ Mhz.

The bandwidth is very low. Not sure why. I think it’s my OS. It’s a little full with some crap on it. Not a benching OS at all. (Daily OS) with single rank I was hitting around 62GB bandwidth at just 3,867 


I have a SSD coming that I am gonna throw a benching Windows 10 LTSC on.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> I haven’t gotten that far yet at all, haven’t even attempted. I dont even know if my memory can keep up. It is Dominator platinum 3600CL14 dual rank Samsung B-Die. I’m already feeding 1.65V to it.
> 
> Probably gonna be memory shopping again lol. I didn’t think I’d actually need 4000+ Mhz.
> 
> The bandwidth is very low. Not sure why. I think it’s my OS. It’s a little full with some crap on it. Not a benching OS at all. (Daily OS) with single rank I was hitting around 62GB bandwidth at just 3,867
> 
> 
> I have a SSD coming that I am gonna throw a benching Windows 10 LTSC on.


I don’t think it’s the OS. Inconsistent results run-to-run would be the OS randomly loading unnecessary processes. I have a very fat Win 10. Unless you stabilize, AIDA results are not very useful.

Vdimm is very high but SA is low. This might mean your DIMMs need the extra voltage but your IMC and motherboard are not breaking a sweat.

I’d offer to sell my kit but Gskill 4000c14 2x16 pairs very nicely with my 12900K when DDR5 is nowhere to be seen


----------



## tps3443

geriatricpollywog said:


> I don’t think it’s the OS. Inconsistent results run-to-run would be the OS randomly loading unnecessary processes. I have a very fat Win 10. Unless you stabilize, AIDA results are not very useful.
> 
> Vdimm is very high but SA is low. This might mean your DIMMs need the extra voltage but your IMC and motherboard are not breaking a sweat.


My bandwidth was better with single rank at slower speeds for some reason. But latency is really low with dual rank.

I might need better memory. I’m not certain how my Corsair sticks would fair at 1.65V once hot and under stability testing. Unless they were water cooled or something. Dual rank loves voltage from what I can see.



This memory does good with low speeds and low timings. But once I go over 3800 CL14 it needs a lot of memory voltage.


----------



## Jwick

Solohuman said:


> Guys, is their a way to discover the SP rating on a Gigabyte board, or is this an Asus thing?


its an asus thing


----------



## Delpize

Jwick said:


> the gflop variation is because i opened hwinfo at 50ms so yea some runs its closed, some runs its open so thats why the glops are lower certain runs. 1.48v sa. 1.4v io2. 1.58v dimm. 24c water(lower sa is possible, but gave a bit of headroom). it will boot consistently all the way upto 28c water temp at 1.48v sa. (i have a chiller so i have accurate temp control and monitoring). roughly dropping 5c nets 25mhz . i have booted 4000 c13-14 at 11c water 1.52v sa ,havnt optimized voltage yet. my sub zero daily setup still isnt finished, its taking a bit longer than expected , will update.


This is what the REAL STABLE is passing the tesst with residuals matching which most people cant even reach.


----------



## Jwick

what i have found is, 62k linpack latest passes, then all other memory stress test passes. but if other memory stress test passes, linpack not necessarily will pass. cpu oc is diff, occt small extreme avx2 variable is harder. i can run occt small extreme avx at 4.934mhz with ht on. linpack i can run 100mhz more. cache is weird. 4.5 works with cstates enabled, 4.6 posts windows with cstates on but it will hang when u stop stress test(cstates off no prob). 4.6 no boot into windows with cstates on. but cstates disabled 4.7 works and all stress test passes but fails installing windows (hangs). so i decided to run cache at 4.4. better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## tps3443

I’m running DDR4 4000 CL14-15-32-1T Gear (1)
no bclk overclocking at all. CPU is at 5.4Ghz.

1T helped the bandwidth a little. This is very stable with fairly low I/O and S/A voltages of only 1.365V. My memory voltage is 1.622V. (I’m not so certain how my memory would hold up in memory stability testing long term) But it does get through anything else, (Which works for me)

CPU is at 5.4Ghz with 1.465V set in the bios.

My memory is Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600CL14 2x16GB. (I feel like I’m having to juice this stuff to death) it’s solid in all of my work
loads. But, I’m probably gonna end up replacing these sticks with something better binned, that takes a little less juice. I had no idea, my IMC/and Silicon would be really good on this 11900K.


----------



## Jwick

1T G1 doesnt work on dark. and i dont know how u booted at that sa. and the aida bandwidth has a long way to go for that freq. latency also. and its not stable.


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> I’m running DDR4 4000 CL14-15-32-1T Gear (1)
> no bclk overclocking at all. CPU is at 5.4Ghz.
> 
> 1T helped the bandwidth a little. This is very stable with fairly low I/O and S/A voltages of only 1.365V. My memory voltage is 1.622V. (I’m not so certain how my memory would hold up in memory stability testing long term) But it does get through anything else, (Which works for me)
> 
> CPU is at 5.4Ghz with 1.465V set in the bios.
> 
> My memory is Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600CL14 2x16GB. (I feel like I’m having to juice this stuff to death) it’s solid in all of my work
> loads. But, I’m probably gonna end up replacing these sticks with something better binned, that takes a little less juice. I had no idea, my IMC/and Silicon would be really good on this 11900K.


Show us your timings using ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.9 or 4.0.13.


----------



## tps3443

Jwick said:


> 1T G1 doesnt work on dark. and i dont know how u booted at that sa. and the aida bandwidth has a long way to go for that freq. latency also. and its not stable.


Ive always ran (Gear 1) at 1T On my Z590 Dark. What do you mean it doesn’t work?

Also, I’m new to dual rank. First time running dual rank. The above screen shot was literally right after getting this memory up and running. I don’t really know where to go with it just yet, but I’m learning. I haven’t tuned it to its best yet. I was just testing the IMC. The IMC keeps on going right past 4,000Mhz in gear 1.

My other 11900K only did 3,882Mhz Gear 1 running 1T command rate with single rank memory. And I had crashing even then sometimes, so 3,879Mhz was fully stable daily.


As for stability on this chip at 4000 Gear 1? it’s stable in R23, it’s stable in realbench 4GB, it’s stable in my games like BF2042 extended sessions. It has been running 24 hours like this ok so far. But actual memory stability testing? Probably not. I don’t think my DDR4 with 1.65V would do so well after it heated up. The memory would probably start spitting out errors.

Ive only got dual rank 3600 DDR4, and I’m juicing it to run just 4000CL14.

I’m gonna tune the memory, and get it 100% stable. But yea I run it daily like this. Games, VR, work applications, etc. no issues.

I’m going to go at it again tomorrow, and hopefully get this memory dialed in better.


----------



## tps3443

So I delidded my really good super silicon 11900K.

This is a quick run at 5.4Ghz during Cinebench R15 (Just checking initial temps, and block mount after 1st power on) This is my 2nd delid on a 11900K. This one was a little nerve racking, because I didn’t want to damage the CPU.

Everything went well. Temps for 5.4Ghz are fantastic. I’m exhausted, and it’s late. Will try to stabilize 5.5 tomorrow. I should be there based on these temps.

5.4 already looks like I can drop off the voltage even further too. I also decided to leave the (16) SMD’s this time lol.


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Show us your timings using ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.9 or 4.0.13.


Will download and post up tomorrow.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

tps3443 said:


> So I delidded my really good super silicon 11900K.
> 
> This is a quick run at 5.4Ghz during Cinebench R15 (Just checking initial temps, and block mount after 1st power on) This is my 2nd delid on a 11900K. This one was a little nerve racking, because I didn’t want to damage the CPU.
> 
> Everything went well. Temps for 5.4Ghz are fantastic. I’m exhausted, and it’s late. Will try to stabilize 5.5 tomorrow. I should be there based on these temps.
> 
> 5.4 already looks like I can drop off the voltage even further too. I also decided to leave the (16) SMD’s this time lol.


This is a much more professional delid than my 10700k. It looks like you learned how to avoid plowing off the caps too.

Have you run any Time Spy? I don't think you'll beat my 11900K/Kingpin.


----------



## Groove2013

Have ordered LGA 1700 mounting kit for my LGA 1200 EK AiO, to only take standoffs from it, since they're slightly shorter than for LGA 1200, to have optimal/better pressure/contact of coldplate with CPU DIE, when doing direct DIE.

So will try to do direct DIE then.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> Looking good. Now you gotta stabilize


Your RAM timings aren't that optimised or is that your kit that can't do better?

What is your RAM voltage?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Your RAM timings aren't that optimised or is that your kit that can't do better?
> 
> What is your RAM voltage?


I could probably tighten further. This was a few months ago on my old 11900K setup. AFAIK only Sugi has posted similar or better results with HCI memtest screenshot.

RAM voltage was 1.55 on RKL, but on ADL the same kit can post 4300c14 on 1.59v.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> I could probably tighten further. This was a few months ago on my old 11900K setup. AFAIK only Sugi has posted similar or better results with HCI memtest screenshot.
> 
> RAM voltage was 1.55 on RKL, but on ADL the same kit can post 4300c14 on 1.59v.


tRFC is relatively high, RTL 63 I think could have been 62 or 61, tRDWR 11, 11, 12, 12 is also high, same as tWRWR 7, 7.

Higher RAM voltage allows to further lower tRFC. Your tRDWR should be at least 4×10 (tCL - tCWL +10). Sometimes 4×9 works as well.
tWRWR 2×6 is better than 7.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> tRFC is relatively high, RTL 63 I think could have been 62 or 61, tRDWR 11, 11, 12, 12 is also high, same as tWRWR 7, 7.
> 
> Higher RAM voltage allows to further lower tRFC. Your tRDWR should be at least 4×10 (tCL - tCWL +10). Sometimes 4×9 works as well.
> tWRWR 2×6 is better than 7.


RTL would not post below 63 at 4Kc14. Other timings could possibly be lowered, but right now my Z590 is in a box and would take about 30 minutes to get up and running. tRFC on this same kit is 240 on ADL.

Again, I haven't seen many HCI memtest results. I could probably tighten the timings, but it would be pointless since it wouldn't be stable.


----------



## Groove2013

One should try to keep RAM voltage as high as possible, withing reasonable limits + keep in mind its temp and so it doesn't spit out errors.
This way you can have lowest possible tRFC, which boosts performance.

I started from 1.67 V at 4000 14-15-15-15 with the rest of timings on auto and run memtest and it was giving me errors, because the voltage was too high, although RAM temp was not higher or even lower than 40°C.

So I was lowering RAM voltage from 1.67 V at 4000 14-15-15-15 until there were no errors.
So the max errors free RAM voltage I could find is 1.593 V.
And then I found all the remaining timings and tRFC is the last one I tuned, so it doesn't influence other timings and now tRFC is 226.


----------



## Groove2013

This is what I have now with my SP45 11900K.


----------



## Delpize

Groove2013 said:


> This is what I have now with my SP45 11900K.


I dont think this would pass 62k Linpack no chance.you would even get error on the first cycle


----------



## Groove2013

Delpize said:


> I dont think this would pass 62k Linpack no chance.you would even get error on the first cycle


My cooling can't withstand Linpack.
But various memory tests and Prime95 is more than enough.


----------



## ViTosS

When you guys direct die I presume you apply liquid metal on both surfaces (die and waterblock), right? How do you know exactly and precisely the area in the waterblock that touches the die, to apply LM only on that area? I know if you apply LM only on the die and put the block and use it, heat it up for a period the die area will be ''marked'' in the waterblock and that makes easier to apply LM precisely, but I was stupid to use LM on my Intel stock IHS before delidding and now possibly there will be only the LM huge square area where I applied in the IHS marked on the waterblock, and then if I want to go direct die now I no longer can use that method and I will have no idea where is the area of the die on the waterblock because I already applied it all over on the IHS


----------



## tps3443

geriatricpollywog said:


> This is a much more professional delid than my 10700k. It looks like you learned how to avoid plowing off the caps too.
> 
> Have you run any Time Spy? I don't think you'll beat my 11900K/Kingpin.


See, I could never keep up with your CPU. Your chip
is amazing. But now, I’ve got an amazing chip that can keep up. My DDR4 is not as great as your DDR4 though, and I really kinda wish I would have spent more money now on memory. But, I truly didn’t think I’d have a 11900K with an IMC that was this good.

This 11900K plows through R23 at 5.4Ghz at 56-64C core temps. 4000Mhz Gear 1. (No AVX offsets)

I have not tried benching 5.5Ghz on this chip yet. I didn’t want to abuse it, and run it hot before the delid.


I will certainly give it a shot at trying to beat your score. Please share the link again here so I have a goal in mind.


----------



## Delpize

tps3443 said:


> See, I could never keep up with your CPU. Your chip
> is amazing. But now, I’ve got an amazing chip that can keep up. My DDR4 is not as great as your DDR4 though, and I really kinda wish I would have spent more money now on memory. But, I truly didn’t think I’d have a 11900K with an IMC that was this good.
> 
> This 11900K plows through R23 at 5.4Ghz at 56-64C core temps. 4000Mhz Gear 1. (No AVX offsets)
> 
> I have not tried benching 5.5Ghz on this chip yet. I didn’t want to abuse it, and run it hot before the delid.
> 
> 
> I will certainly give it a shot at trying to beat your score. Please share the link again here so I have a goal in mind.


I have DR 4000 c14-15 ram. Z590 apex and 11900k.
Isnt it so weird that, i can do only 3733 13-14-28 2T at 1.55vdim 1.35 io2/1.4 sa. Cant go lower vdim it doesnt pass tests.
I dont wanna go higher vdimm and i can not make it work 13-13 or 13-14 1T.

Is my IMC SHİT? People say, my ram is god like binned but im stuck at 13-14 2T 3733. Or maybe there is some secret settings on z590 APEX can make it higher?


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> So I delidded my really good super silicon 11900K.
> 
> This is a quick run at 5.4Ghz during Cinebench R15 (Just checking initial temps, and block mount after 1st power on) This is my 2nd delid on a 11900K. This one was a little nerve racking, because I didn’t want to damage the CPU.
> 
> Everything went well. Temps for 5.4Ghz are fantastic. I’m exhausted, and it’s late. Will try to stabilize 5.5 tomorrow. I should be there based on these temps.
> 
> 5.4 already looks like I can drop off the voltage even further too. I also decided to leave the (16) SMD’s this time lol.


In the oven to delid? there's no risks to desolder any other smd or something? thanks


----------



## tps3443

Delpize said:


> I have DR 4000 c14-15 ram. Z590 apex and 11900k.
> Isnt it so weird that, i can do only 3733 13-14-28 2T at 1.55vdim 1.35 io2/1.4 sa. Cant go lower vdim it doesnt pass tests.
> I dont wanna go higher vdimm and i can not make it work 13-13 or 13-14 1T.
> 
> Is my IMC SHİT? People say, my ram is god like binned but im stuck at 13-14 2T 3733. Or maybe there is some secret settings on z590 APEX can make it higher?


Right, you’ve got good memory. Your IMC may just be tapping out. But that’s ok, my other 11900K IMC is like yours. It could also do 3733 CL13-14.


I’m gonna have to purchase some better ram for my better 11900K though.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> In the oven to delid? there's no risks to desolder any other smd or something? thanks


A lot of people break the 11900K during delid. I don’t recommend it. (It really sucks)

And, no the other components will not fall off. The solder on the IHS and Die melt at a lower temp then the other parts


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Show us your timings using ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.9 or 4.0.13.


----------



## Geekounet

Gonna put my 11700K in the oven then, which temp & how long? =)


----------



## Groove2013

Geekounet said:


> Gonna put my 11700K in the oven then, which temp & how long? =)


I would say 180°C for 20 mins.
But you need it to be relatively close to where heat comes out, for it to be more effective or effective enough, so you don't have to redo it several times, until it finally works for you.


----------



## Groove2013

@Jwick 4.6 GHz cache also freezes for me on Apex 13 with C-States enabled.
With them disabled, it passes all the tests at 4.6 GHz that can take 5 to 12 hrs to finish.


----------



## Geekounet

Groove2013 said:


> I would say 180°C for 20 mins.
> But you need it to be relatively close to where heat comes out, for it to be more effective or effective enough, so you don't have to redo it several times, until it finally works for you.


Yeah in my oven i can put it close to the heat, i can also choose between up & buttom, gonna put it near the heat on the buttom with the cpu upside down


----------



## Jwick

Jwick said:


> what i have found is, 62k linpack latest passes, then all other memory stress test passes. but if other memory stress test passes, linpack not necessarily will pass. cpu oc is diff, occt small extreme avx2 variable is harder. i can run occt small extreme avx at 4.934mhz with ht on. linpack i can run 100mhz more. cache is weird. 4.5 works with cstates enabled, 4.6 posts windows with cstates on but it will hang when u stop stress test(cstates off no prob). 4.7 no boot into windows with cstates on. but cstates disabled 4.7 works and all stress test passes but fails installing windows (hangs). so i decided to run cache at 4.4. better to be safe than sorry.


i edited this, what i meant was 47 wouldnt boot with cstates enabled(oops, i said 46 before)


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> My cooling can't withstand Linpack.
> But various memory tests and Prime95 is more than enough.


reduce voltage and cpu clocks then run linpack 62k.


----------



## tps3443

Hey everyone. I am running memory stability.

It has been running for 6-7 hours now. How long should I run it for?

CPU is at 5.4Ghz all cores, cache is 4.3Ghz.

I have more room, and I’m still learning dual rank etc. I have around 1.622V going to my DR 3600CL14 Corsair Dominator Platinum sticks.

I will reduce RTL’s after this. So far I can get down to 58/58 and still post just fine. I’ve got them at 61/61 and I will try 59/59 after this.

PS: The test is still running. I will report back later with how it’s going.


----------



## bscool

@tps3443 I use multiple mem and cpu stress tests. I have seen mem OC that can pass 1 test and fire up a different mem test and it gives an error. Or even pass multiple mem test and then have issues when gaming because GPU heat cause instability. So really depends what each individuals needs are.

Also something like @Jwick posted to stres CPU is good Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion

If an OC can run that test and get matching residuals you are doing good. Some prefer gsat but i have never used it.


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> @tps3443 I use multiple mem and cpu stress tests. I have seen mem OC that can pass 1 test and fire up a different mem test and it gives an error. Or even pass multiple mem test and then have issues when gaming because GPU heat cause instability. So really depends what each individuals needs are.
> 
> Also something like @Jwick posted to stres CPU is good Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> If an OC can run that test and get matching residuals you are doing good. Some prefer gsat but i have never used it.


The CPU overclock is solid, I was just worried about the memory. Its the sample, it’s just really good. I’ve dealt with 11900K struggles as my other chip is a dud compared to this one.

I mean, there are numerous test than can really push chips. It passes everything I have thrown at it. I’m calling it stable, my ambient temps are fairly warm like 24C/75F. And the chip is direct die. So the hottest core even in testing like R23 gets like 71C at only 289 watts per HWinfo with 5.4Ghz on all cores. I managed to just get lucky with a good sample. I personally love the 11900K, and I have always wanted one like this!


----------



## Jwick

linpack isnt necessarily a cpu test as the problem size i ran was 62256 which uses 30k memory. so with that configuration its more like all in one kinda test. linpack is easier on the cpu than occt small extreme avx 2 variable.


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> The CPU overclock is solid, I was just worried about the memory. Its the sample, it’s just really good. I’ve dealt with 11900K struggles as my other chip is a dud compared to this one.
> 
> I mean, there are numerous test than can really push chips. It passes everything I have thrown at it. I’m calling it stable, my ambient temps are fairly warm like 24C/75F. And the chip is direct die. So the hottest core even in testing like R23 gets like 71C at only 289 watts per HWinfo with 5.4Ghz on all cores. I managed to just get lucky with a good sample. I personally love the 11900K, and I have always wanted one like this!


r23 is walk in the park. Remember benchmark ≠ stress test. if u want max stability for core, run occt small extreme avx 2 variable(avx512 is easier than avx2)


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> The CPU overclock is solid, I was just worried about the memory. Its the sample, it’s just really good. I’ve dealt with 11900K struggles as my other chip is a dud compared to this one.
> 
> I mean, there are numerous test than can really push chips. It passes everything I have thrown at it. I’m calling it stable, my ambient temps are fairly warm like 24C/75F. And the chip is direct die. So the hottest core even in testing like R23 gets like 71C at only 289 watts per HWinfo with 5.4Ghz on all cores. I managed to just get lucky with a good sample. I personally love the 11900K, and I have always wanted one like this!


The power reading from the cpu sensor is broken as it uses vid. vid on RKL is broken. and DARK doesnt have vrm controller power/current reading, but it has die sense. also another tip for the dark, run +75% droop.


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> Hey everyone. I am running memory stability.
> 
> It has been running for 6-7 hours now. How long should I run it for?
> 
> CPU is at 5.4Ghz all cores, cache is 4.3Ghz.
> 
> I have more room, and I’m still learning dual rank etc. I have around 1.622V going to my DR 3600CL14 Corsair Dominator Platinum sticks.
> 
> I will reduce RTL’s after this. So far I can get down to 58/58 and still post just fine. I’ve got them at 61/61 and I will try 59/59 after this.
> 
> PS: The test is still running. I will report back later with how it’s going.








LinX v0.9.2 (Intel) - Google Drive







drive.google.com




download this, and set problem size 62256(if your windows is bloated then reduce size to make sure it doesnt go to the pagefile). minimum 50 runs for memory. for cpu run occt small avx2 extreme variable.


----------



## tps3443

Jwick said:


> LinX v0.9.2 (Intel) - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> download this, and set problem size 62256(if your windows is bloated then reduce size to make sure it doesnt go to the pagefile). minimum 50 runs for memory. for cpu run occt small avx2 extreme variable.



Is this a harsh test? Harsh as in unrealistic power and heat like Prime 95 small FFT’?

I can sustain the heat. But I really don’t want to cook my cpu for no reason when I know it’s stable.


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> Is this a harsh test? Harsh as in unrealistic power and heat like Prime 95 small FFT’?
> 
> I can sustain the heat. But I really don’t want to cook my cpu for no reason when I know it’s stable.


Harder than Prime95. No need for it.


----------



## Groove2013

OCCT small extreme AVX 2 also no need.


----------



## Groove2013

No game will push your CPU like that.


----------



## Groove2013

Because of Linpack and/or OCCT or Prime95 (with AVX) you go for higher voltage, which results in higher temps and lower frequency and the "need" for more powerful and more expensive cooling.


----------



## Groove2013

Lets push almost 400 W, lets buy cooling that can handle that and then lets play a game that pushes less than 100 W or slightly more...


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Lets push almost 400 W, lets buy cooling that can handle that and then lets play a game that pushes less than 100 W or slightly more...


I could run those test, but I won’t.

My 11900K is bare die (No ILM, No IHS, and No die frame at all), Optimus Signature V2 Nickel block sitting right on the silicon die, Alphacool Nexxxos 1,080x45MM solid copper external radiator, and two D5 pumps at 100%. All of this is on a open Primochill Wet bench SX full (Test bench)


Just like you said, these chips are for gaming and benching. No need to suck extreme power from
them. It is very degrading. One either runs stable, or it doesn’t run stable. And it is highly dependent on the CPU quality someone has.


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> Is this a harsh test? Harsh as in unrealistic power and heat like Prime 95 small FFT’?
> 
> I can sustain the heat. But I really don’t want to cook my cpu for no reason when I know it’s stable.


u dont know its stable until u run this test. this is to test memory more so than cpu. it does cook yea, and u will never be able to run 5.4g either, but the one which really cooks is occt small extreme avx 2


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> Lets push almost 400 W, lets buy cooling that can handle that and then lets play a game that pushes less than 100 W or slightly more...


wrong. its not abt cooling 400w, if u want u can lower voltage and run lower cpu clocks and run the test to make sure your memory is stable, then u can set a game stable cpu oc. cache and memory must be max stability. but i do for all.


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> I could run those test, but I won’t.
> 
> My 11900K is bare die (No ILM, No IHS, and No die frame at all), Optimus Signature V2 Nickel block sitting right on the silicon die, Alphacool Nexxxos 1,080x45MM solid copper external radiator, and two D5 pumps at 100%. All of this is on a open Primochill Wet bench SX full (Test bench)
> 
> 
> Just like you said, these chips are for gaming and benching. No need to suck extreme power from
> them. It is very degrading. One either runs stable, or it doesn’t run stable. And it is highly dependent on the CPU quality someone has.


wrong u are not gonna degrade it if u follow intel spec 245 A (and under 90c hottest core), well it will degrade but its negligible, dont worry abt degradation. and wrong again, if one is not stable it can be half stable, which is equal to everyone, no one is really stable except me and delpize, but cstkl1 and other actually good ocers have their memory/cache max stable but cpu clocks game stable(normal stress test, not abusive stress test, obviously not r23-cause its a benchmark). u will have a bad time if your memory is half stable.. and not consistently stable.


----------



## Jwick

remember, if u dont want max stability, reduce voltage and core clocks and then u can run linpack to make sure your mem is stable. memory and cache needs to be MAX STABLE. no if no buts.


----------



## Jwick

tps3443 said:


> Is this a harsh test? Harsh as in unrealistic power and heat like Prime 95 small FFT’?
> 
> I can sustain the heat. But I really don’t want to cook my cpu for no reason when I know it’s stable.


all stress tests are unrealistic .. r23 is also unrealistic.


----------



## Jwick

Groove2013 said:


> No game will push your CPU like that.


every stress test pulls more power than games, this excuse is irrelevent. and i have been seeing this same comment for so long.


----------



## YaqY

Man you don't stop with the linpack spam, just let people run their systems how they want. Stop trying to enforce stress tests like that on them.


----------



## Jwick

here comes the 10th gen guys who hates linpack as they cant pass stock 🤣


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> here comes the 10th gen guys who hates linpack as they cant pass stock 🤣


Linpack runs fine at 5.3 ht on with my chip but thanks for the comment. It also pulls over 255 amps, sensors don’t read more… I think you might be jealous that this guy has a stronger cpu or setup than you, just let him enjoy the setup.


----------



## Jwick

old ancient linpack it will pass and sometimes will not mismatch. the new one which i linked it will mismatch but it wont stop(but somtimes it will stop), try running 50ms hwinfo in the background or something else, it will mismatch. 11th gen doesnt.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> old ancient linpack it will pass and sometimes will not mismatch. the new one which i linked it will mismatch but it wont stop(but somtimes it will stop), try running 50ms hwinfo in the background or something else, it will mismatch. 11th gen doesnt.


I’m fine dude I know my stuff is stable, and I have ways of testing ram, GSAT on cold boots, tm5, Karhu and along with occt cpu tests, 0 issues with stability.


----------



## Jwick

YaqY said:


> I’m fine dude I know my stuff is stable, and I have ways of testing ram, GSAT on cold boots, tm5, Karhu and along with occt cpu tests, 0 issues with stability.


if u are happy with it its fine. but games do crash and cause parity whea on 10th gen. even on stock. ghost runner and also if u run like very low resolution and low settings chances to crash increases on 10th gen. i am just here to help people out, thats it. its upto them if they want to listen or not.


----------



## YaqY

Jwick said:


> if u are happy with it its fine. but games do crash and cause parity whea on 10th gen. even on stock. ghost runner and also if u run like very low resolution and low settings chances to crash increases on 10th gen. i am just here to help people out, thats it. its upto them if they want to listen or not.


I don’t crash, and this is an 11th gen thread, once again no need to enforce your stability necessities on other people, especially when they require high level cooling to run reasonable clocks.


----------



## Jwick

YaqY said:


> I don’t crash, and this is an 11th gen thread, once again no need to enforce your stability necessities on other people, especially when they require high level cooling to run reasonable clocks.


i am not enforcing anything, i am not holding anyone at gun point with linpack. its their PC and its upto them what they want to do with it. u can lower clocks/lower voltage and run linpack 62k for memory/imc stability. if u know what u are doing and u know the math u can run other memory stress test. just make sure to check consistency. and if u dont crash doesnt mean others arnt. i have seen a lot of people crashing at stock 10900k.


----------



## Delpize

Please check enclosed picture.

Thats what i call truelly cpu/cache/ram stable. 62k Linpack uses ur all memory in the same time cpu and cache.

@Jwick is right...


----------



## Falkentyne

What did I walk into here?


----------



## tps3443

I made “Hall Of Fame” TOP (100) with liquid ambient cooling.









I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com






Here is my 11900K at 5.5Ghz with 1.525V what a chip!! I made Hall of Fame on top 100. (And it’s hard to get in the HOF) a lot of these guys run like 5.9-6.6Ghz On LN2. if it wasn’t for my rocking IMC, I would not be in top 100. I’m #98 in the world.


----------



## Solohuman

Guys what voltage is related to ring/llc ratio? I'm trying to get more than 42x but don't know that voltages to adjust to get it stable. Thanks!


----------



## eeroo94

Solohuman said:


> Guys what voltage is related to ring/llc ratio? I'm trying to get more than 42x but don't know that voltages to adjust to get it stable. Thanks!


Vcore.


----------



## AndreySV

Hello,guys, i have a problem, hope u can help me. I have 11700KF and Z590 ASUS TUF game plus, with laste bios. Also i have G.Skill 4000cl14, and i can't run it more than 4266CL15, it's wont even load at 4533 with any CL even CL17, can u help me? what should i do? Garbage motherboard even not show IO and SA voltage for 300USD


----------



## bscool

@AndreySV There is something about the 4000c14 kit that z590 doesnt like it for gear 2. On both z590 Apex and z590 Unify X it is tricky to get working much over 4400 but other kits I have like 3200c14, 3600c14, 4400c17 Dr all can do 4533 easier. The 4000c14 kit seems better aimed for gear 1 on z590 in my experience. It does well on z490 for higher clocks though.

It would take some testing on your use/applications but I would think you would be be better off running something like 3866 gear 1 if you can vs 4266 gear 2. But outside of benchmarks I doubt you will be able to tell a difference between the two.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> @AndreySV There is something about the 4000c14 kit that z590 doesnt like it for gear 2. On both z590 Apex and z590 Unify X it is tricky to get working much over 4400 but other kits I have like 3200c14, 3600c14, 4400c17 Dr all can do 4533 easier. The 4000c14 kit seems better aimed for gear 1 on z590 in my experience. It does well on z490 for higher clocks though.
> 
> It would take some testing on your use/applications but I would think you would be be better off running something like 3866 gear 1 if you can vs 4266 gear 2. But outside of benchmarks I doubt you will be able to tell a difference between the two.


I run it right now 3733Cl13-14-28 trfc260 gear1. T of 1 module is 51C. After 1 hr test it's gives 1 error, what it could be?


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> I run it right now 3733Cl13-14-28 trfc260 gear1. T of 1 module is 50C. After 1 hr test it's gives 1 error, what it could be?


Could be a lot of things. io/sa dram v,a timing too tight. I mean if I could answer that people wouldnt spend weeks and months tweaking ram OCs.

What are you voltages and timgings. If you post screenshots people might be able to tell you more.

Temp could be an issue for sure, but it could be a lot of things. Ideally I would try and keep temps under 45c or less. Do you have a fan on your ram? If not and adding 1 cools it down and makes error go away you know it is temp related.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> Could be a lot of things. io/sa dram v,a timing too tight. I mean if I could answer that people wouldnt spend weeks and months tweaking ram OCs.
> 
> What are you voltages and timgings. If you post screenshots people might be able to tell you more.
> 
> Temp could be an issue for sure, but it could be a lot of things. Ideally I would try and keep temps under 45c or less. Do you have a fan on your ram? If not and adding 1 cools it down and makes error go away you know it is temp related.


Yeah i know about temps, but i won't OC it it's stock 4000CL14-15-15-35 1.55V, i run it 3733CL13-14-14-32 with same 1.55V


----------



## bscool

@AndreySV It doesnt sound like you have set io or sa since you are not mentioning them. They are important for stabilty and you need to test and find what works for your setup. Been a bit since I messed with z590 but I think io of 1.35 and sa of around 1.5 was needed for my weakest 11900k to run 3733c14 and pass various memtests. So you might need to bump those up or try it and see if it helps or try loweing them.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> @AndreySV It doesnt sound like you have set io or sa since you are not mentioning them. They are important for stabilty and you need to test and find what works for your setup. Been a bit since I messed with z590 but I think io of 1.35 and sa of around 1.5 was needed for my weakest 11900k to run 3733c14 and pass various memtests. So you might need to bump those up or try it and see if it helps or try loweing them.


yeah, my MB hot show this values at all)) i don't tuch them also ,cuz they need only for Mhz not for cl. I have other kit 4000CL16-16 and it's work fin 3733CL14 at 1.45V without any SA/IO changes. It's also works fin on my other PC with z370/8700K at [email protected] with SA1.1v/IO1.05V . So i think with no OC no need to tuch SA/IO


----------



## AndreySV

So i think F4-4000C14D-16GVK is not a good kit for this money it's not bring a lot of perfomance for this money. At any point and in stock it's gives always single error at TestMEM, ***? I set IO/SA to 1.3/1.45V it's still not helo at 3733CL13, but 3600CL13 at stock IO/SA 1.2/1.4V works fin. I don't see a sens to buy this kit for 200USD when you can buy 400-16-16 GVKA which are work fin at 3733CL14 and cost two times cheaper. I will go to give it back.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

AndreySV said:


> So i think F4-4000C14D-16GVK is not a good kit for this money it's not bring a lot of perfomance for this money. At any point and in stock it's gives always single error at TestMEM, ***? I set IO/SA to 1.3/1.45V it's still not helo at 3733CL13, but 3600CL13 at stock IO/SA 1.2/1.4V works fin. I don't see a sens to buy this kit for 200USD when you can buy 400-16-16 GVKA which are work fin at 3733CL14 and cost two times cheaper. I will go to give it back.


I have the 32gb version of that kit. It’s memtest stable in gear 1, 2T command rate between 3866 and 4000 mhz with primary timings of 14-15-15. As I approach 4000 it needs more SA voltage, up to 1.55v.

Are you trying torun 1T command rate? Just try 2T.


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> So i think F4-4000C14D-16GVK is not a good kit for this money it's not bring a lot of perfomance for this money. At any point and in stock it's gives always single error at TestMEM, ***? I set IO/SA to 1.3/1.45V it's still not helo at 3733CL13, but 3600CL13 at stock IO/SA 1.2/1.4V works fin. I don't see a sens to buy this kit for 200USD when you can buy 400-16-16 GVKA which are work fin at 3733CL14 and cost two times cheaper. I will go to give it back.


Yep I have had many of the 2x8 and 2x16 b die kits in the last couple of years and they are all very close. Get the cheapest one you can and outside of benchmarks or going for max OC it doesnt matter. Many buying the top binned kit want to "play"(pay to play) so paying double for the last few % doesnt matter to them.

And pushing memory/cpu clocks works like that you have increase voltages so it gets to a point it is not worth it.


----------



## tps3443

I’d go for the Corsair Dom Platz 2x16GBSamsung B-die. You can find this ram for like $200-$240 bucks. It is very good with overclocking. I run the 3600CL14 sticks. They stabilize 4000CL14 just fine. 


What is incredible, first and foremost is how cool the ram runs. I thought Corsair Dominator Platinum stuff was overrated and gamer boy memory, that was just overpriced. However, even with like 1.650V it is always SUB 40C after hours and hours of stability testing.

I struggled with keeping my SUB $500 dollar 4x8GB G.Skill memory cool. This stuff would break in tk the 40’s with just 1.5v super easy. So sending 1.55-1.600V is just gonna hammer them.

G.Skill memory will overclock well, but the cooling generally sucks.


----------



## AndreySV

how many SA is ok for 24/7 use? Looks like i get stable 4266CL15 at 1.55V SA. For 4800CL17 looks like will be needs 1.8V SA.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

AndreySV said:


> how many SA is ok for 24/7 use? Looks like i get stable 4266CL15 at 1.55V SA. For 4800CL17 looks like will be needs 1.8V SA.


1.52 if you don’t care about longevity.


----------



## AndreySV

geriatricpollywog said:


> 1.52 if you don’t care about longevity.


hmm but stock MB value is 1.45V SA, you say if i add 0,07V it's won't life enough?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

AndreySV said:


> hmm but stock MB value is 1.45V SA, you say if i add 0,07V it's won't life enough?


"Auto" is NOT the same as "Stock."

Stock is probably 1.2v or less, but your motherboard will boost voltages to questionably safe levels when set to Auto.


----------



## AndreySV

geriatricpollywog said:


> "Auto" is NOT the same as "Stock."
> 
> Stock is probably 1.2v or less, but your motherboard will boost voltages to questionably safe levels when set to Auto.


it's even not boot at 1.35V SA, it's z590


----------



## AndreySV

I still can't pass testmem5 at 3733CL13-14-32 560 T2 with IO1.28/SA1.5, any sugestions? Error after12-15minets test


----------



## Groove2013

I'm happy with 4000 MHz 14-15-15-*15*-226-2T gear 1.


----------



## Solohuman

eeroo94 said:


> Vcore.


No, try again.








How to Overclock an Intel CPU: Get the Most MHz from Your Processor


Tips for overclocking your Intel CPU.




www.tomshardware.com


----------



## bscool

Solohuman said:


> No, try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Overclock an Intel CPU: Get the Most MHz from Your Processor
> 
> 
> Tips for overclocking your Intel CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tomshardware.com


Can you refer or cut and paste from the article exactly what you are referring to? I would agree with his previous answer and from glancing over the article I dont see what you are referring too.

It is pretty common knowledge as far as I know uncore/ring oc is connected to vcore if you are having stability issues.


----------



## Groove2013

Bought another 11900K and it's SP 45, like mine, but it can't even boot 4000 CL14, unlike mine.


----------



## AndreySV

Ok i get stable 2x8gb 4266CL15-15-15-30 1.55V 360trfc at SA1.18V/IO1.18V, The problem was in TREFI 33500, only at stock~ 18000 no errors, is it problem in dimm or MB? And i still can't boot at any point even 4533mhz, in QVL for MB it's support up to 5033Mhz, i don't know what to do so.


----------



## bscool

.


AndreySV said:


> Ok i get stable 4266CL15-15-15-30 1.55V 360trfc at SA1.18V/IO1.18V, The problem was in TREFI 33500, only at stock~ 18000 no errors, is it problem in dimm or MB? And i still can't boot at any point even 4533mhz, in QVL for MB it's support up to 5033Mhz, i don't know what to do so.


Hard to give help without knowing are you using SR or DR. Those higher clocks for gear 2 are SR. No way you will run 5033 with DR on a z590 Tuf. Even that will take good Hynix on your MB. Pretty unlikely with b die even SR.

With your MB I would guess if you can get 4266 working with DR b die you are doing good. DR b die even Apex is not easy in Gear 2 at 4400+.

Also without listing your specs people are suppose to memorize your specs or look at old post to help you. Probably not going to get much help wthout lisitng your specs. So either cut and paste them every post or add them to your sig or profile would be my suggestion.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> .
> 
> Hard to give help without knowing are you using SR or DR. Those higher clocks for gear 2 are SR. No way you will run 5033 with DR on a z590 Tuf. Even that will take good Hynix on your MB. Pretty unlikely with b die even SR.
> 
> With your MB I would guess if you can get 4266 working with DR b die you are doing good. DR b die even Apex is not easy in Gear 2 at 4400+.
> 
> Also without listing your specs people are suppose to memorize your specs or look at old post to help you. Probably not going to get much help wthout lisitng your specs. So either cut and paste them every post or add them to your sig or profile would be my suggestion.


I add it's SR


----------



## AndreySV

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You may try Timing configurator 4.0.8.
> 
> 3600 can do 38ns latency.
> View attachment 2487545


Looks very fake, i use all your set's except T1 and CPU/LLC Mhz and get 46.5NS, don't think tthat +100Mhz CPU and +200Mhz LLC can do -8ns


----------



## eeroo94

AndreySV said:


> Looks very fake, i use all your set's except T1 and CPU/LLC Mhz and get 46.5NS, don't think tthat +100Mhz CPU and +200Mhz LLC can do -8ns
> View attachment 2537621


I get below 39ns with 3733 14-14-14-20


----------



## AndreySV

eeroo94 said:


> I get below 39ns with 3733 14-14-14-20
> 
> View attachment 2537622


THis my full auto. Looks like need to change something))


----------



## eeroo94

AndreySV said:


> THis my full auto. Looks like need to change something))
> View attachment 2537632


Enable round trip latency setting.


----------



## AndreySV

eeroo94 said:


> Enable round trip latency setting.


I correct all but still can't get less 44ns


----------



## eeroo94

AndreySV said:


> I correct all but still can't get less 44ns
> View attachment 2537634
> View attachment 2537635


Enable "Round Trip Latency" setting under Memory Training Algorithms.


----------



## AndreySV

eeroo94 said:


> Enable "Round Trip Latency" setting under Memory Training Algorithms.


Where i don't see that.


----------



## AndreySV

how to enable? RTL?


----------



## eeroo94

AndreySV said:


> how to enable? RTL?


Use the search function by pressing F9


----------



## AndreySV

eeroo94 said:


> Use the search function by pressing F9


Ok, dunn, Latency 41.6 ns


----------



## bscool

@AndreySV Adia64 latency is also very dependent on clean OS. Anything running in background adds latency. Anything from keyboard/mouse software, rgb ligthing etc, Asus Aorus etc will increase it.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> @AndreySV Adia64 latency is also very dependent on clean OS. Anything running in background adds latency. Anything from keyboard/mouse software, rgb ligthing etc, Asus Aorus etc will increase it.


Ok i close all what i can))


----------



## AndreySV

AndreySV said:


> Ok i close all what i can)) You do a great job! Thx a lot!May be you have some tips to forward me on 4800CL17, i can't even boot at 4533mhz dunno why.
> View attachment 2537644


----------



## bscool

@AndreySV I think that is good for a lower end z590 board. The limit is most likely IMC if you cant run at 3733. It really doesnt matter anyway 3600 vs 3733 outside of benchmarks.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> @AndreySV I think that is good for a lower end z590 board. The limit is most likely IMC if you cant run at 3733. It really doesnt matter anyway 3600 vs 3733 outside of benchmarks.


No i can 3733 but IO/SA is high and i don't wanna, i can 4266CL15 Gear2, but i wanna 4800CL17, dimms can, but i can't even boot at 4533CL17


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> Ok, dunn, Latency 41.6 ns
> View attachment 2537641


You can do tRAS 14 or 15 no problem on Rocket Lake.

tRRD_L 6 is better than 4 (when tWR 12), if you can't do tWR 8.

See if you can lower tWTR S (tWRRD_dg) and L (tWRRD_sg).

Find tXP and set it to 4.
Find PPD and set it to 0.
After this, tCKE 4 should work.

See if you can do tWRWR_dr and _dd 6 instead of 7.
See if you can do tRDRD_sg 6 and tWRWR_sg 6.
See if you can do tRDRD_dr and _dd 5 instead of 6.
See if you can do tWRRD_dr and _dd 5 instead of 6.

IO 1.35 V and SA 1.5 V is not a problem, but you don't need that much for 3600 MHz.

Also change RAM to 100:133 MHz instead of 100:100 MHz.
It's much much much easier for the CPU memory controller than the default 100:100 MHz.

And maybe with 100:133 MHz, 3733 or 3866 MHz will work.


----------



## Groove2013

I'm doing 37.0 ns in Aida64 with 5.1/4.6 GHz cores/cache (direct DIE EK-AiO) and 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2N gear 1 (XMP 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V Trident Z Neo).


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> You can do tRAS 14 or 15 no problem on Rocket Lake.
> 
> tRRD_L 6 is better than 4 (when tWR 12), if you can't do tWR 8.
> 
> See if you can lower tWTR S (tWRRD_dg) and L (tWRRD_sg).
> 
> Find tXP and set it to 4.
> Find PPD and set it to 0.
> After this, tCKE 4 should work.
> 
> See if you can do tWRWR_dr and _dd 6 instead of 7.
> See if you can do tRDRD_sg 6 and tWRWR_sg 6.
> See if you can do tRDRD_dr and _dd 5 instead of 6.
> See if you can do tWRRD_dr and _dd 5 instead of 6.
> 
> IO 1.35 V and SA 1.5 V is not a problem, but you don't need that much for 3600 MHz.
> 
> Also change RAM to 100:133 MHz instead of 100:100 MHz.
> It's much much much easier for the CPU memory controller than the default 100:100 MHz.
> 
> And maybe with 100:133 MHz, 3733 or 3866 MHz will work.


3733cl13 work fin only IO/SA need hier about 1.4V each, for 3600 1.25V


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> I'm doing 37.0 ns in Aida64 with 5.1/4.6 GHz cores/cache (direct DIE EK-AiO) and 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2N gear 1 (XMP 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V Trident Z Neo).


what SA/IO voltage for 4000mhz?


----------



## Groove2013

My timings


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> 3733cl13 work fin only IO/SA need hier about 1.4V each, for 3600 1.25V


1.4 V is really fine for 24/7 for Rocket Lake.


----------



## tps3443

@Jwick very nice setup you’ve got. I’m gonna try your timing profile, (If my memory allows)


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> 1.4 V is really fine for 24/7 for Rocket Lake.


Yep. I run 1.425V in the bios with -50% vDroop with voltage optimization disabled on my 11900K direct die daily for 5.4Ghz on all cores/ cache is 45. Chip shows no signs of degradation or trouble. Max core temps are around 56-62C during R23 runs. 


I stressed the slam crap out of my other 11900K. But that’s partly due to it needing a few truck loads of voltage lol.



My first 11900K after bios reset shows 1.026V in the bios idle. My 2nd 11900K shows 0.919V in the bios idle. It’s ridiculous how the variation is so massive. But they’re both called (11900K’s) makes no sense.


----------



## Solohuman

bscool said:


> Can you refer or cut and paste from the article exactly what you are referring to? I would agree with his previous answer and from glancing over the article I dont see what you are referring too.
> 
> It is pretty common knowledge as far as I know uncore/ring oc is connected to vcore if you are having stability issues.


Seriously, your that lazy?
Under section 'Get to know your motherboard'
There I did if for you!


----------



## bscool

@Solohuman I read all that still stand by from experience and even reading that I stand by his answer and mine. Talk about lazy you are the one on here asking questions instead of tesing and finding out from first hand experience. I dont think you undertand what you are reading.

Solohuman said:
Guys what voltage is related to ring/llc ratio? I'm trying to get more than 42x but don't know that voltages to adjust to get it stable. Thanks!


----------



## YaqY

Only Vcore is relevant for ring clock. Pll termination helped on cometlake but I am not sure if it does on rocketlake, but as Bscool said it is mainly from vcore…


----------



## Solohuman

bscool said:


> @Solohuman I read all that still stand by from experience and even reading that I stand by his answer and mine. Talk about lazy you are the one on here asking questions instead of tesing and finding out from first hand experience. I dont think you undertand what you are reading.
> 
> Solohuman said:
> Guys what voltage is related to ring/llc ratio? I'm trying to get more than 42x but don't know that voltages to adjust to get it stable. Thanks!


Asked the question BEFORE Tom's hardware published that article.... but yeah... I'm lazy eh??
Here, let me hold your hand & open your eyes to new knowledge.... as quoted in the article...

*VCCSA -* Voltage for the System Agent. Increasing this voltage can help stability when overclocking the ring bus and cache frequency. 
But if you think you know more & it works for you then live in your own reality.


----------



## bscool

That is my point, why ask a question when you can test various voltages yourself and then you know from firsthand experience what works and what doesnt. Also most run a higher vccsa anyway with mem oc so I highly doubt sa is the limit on anyones cache overclock.


----------



## YaqY

Solohuman said:


> Asked the question BEFORE Tom's hardware published that article.... but yeah... I'm lazy eh??
> Here, let me hold your hand & open your eyes to new knowledge.... as quoted in the article...
> 
> *VCCSA -* Voltage for the System Agent. Increasing this voltage can help stability when overclocking the ring bus and cache frequency.
> But if you think you know more & it works for you then live in your own reality.


It is crazy that you think people like Toms hardware know it all. Many people have tested here and from experience know that system agent voltage has nothing to do with ring clock, but if you are so sure then why don’t you test it, it seems that you already have the answer you want.


----------



## bscool

.


----------



## AndreySV

5ghz/4.3ghz core/llc, IO/SA 1.4V is it not high for 24/7?


----------



## Falkentyne

Solohuman said:


> Asked the question BEFORE Tom's hardware published that article.... but yeah... I'm lazy eh??
> Here, let me hold your hand & open your eyes to new knowledge.... as quoted in the article...
> 
> *VCCSA -* Voltage for the System Agent. Increasing this voltage can help stability when overclocking the ring bus and cache frequency.
> But if you think you know more & it works for you then live in your own reality.


VCCSA tends to be related directly to memory overclocking.
VCCIO has in some cases increased core stability when overclocking (and sometimes when overclocked with a high ring ratio), and in some cases, although this wasn't scientifically proven, may help reduce the occurrence of CPU Cache L0 errors on CML and CFL chips from a too aggressive OC.
PLL Termination has sometimes helped slightly stabilize high cache clocks on CML and "possibly" may have helped on RKL, although RKL tended to hit a cache wall, where you would just hard lock loading windows with no BSOD, or hard lock in windows after a certain point. PLL Term did help reduce CPU internal parity errors "slightly' on CML when you were at the edge.

PLL Termination seems to help slightly on Alder Lake when yeeting the Error cores and cache, by slightly increasing stability when the CPU gets hot. But PLL Termination is linked to CPU standby so on DDR5 boards, both should be set to the same value, including under "boot" or "eventual" voltages or you will get 00. This doesn't seem to happen on DDR4 boards.
Unsure if the PLL Trim (Not the same as termination) for core and ring help anything or not outside of LN2.


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> I'm doing 37.0 ns in Aida64 with 5.1/4.6 GHz cores/cache (direct DIE EK-AiO) and 2x16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2N gear 1 (XMP 3800 MHz 14-16-16-36 1.5 V Trident Z Neo).


Vdimm? IO/SA?


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> Vdimm? IO/SA?


Will let you know, later.
Have no time currently.


----------



## Geekounet

So guys, i lapped the IHS of my 11700K & so far i'm seing temps improvements on idle, before that they were in mid 40's, i'll do some overclocking tests later on 










Here's some pics of the process:






































Used the KPX thermal paste i received yesterday from King Pin, a super nice guy btw, we exchanged some emails earlier because of the delivery fees to Algeria (way too expensive) i had to send it to France for a lower fee.


----------



## Geekounet

Before the lapping i was hitting 90+ with the exact same settings so for me it's a total success, thanks for advices and tips guys 

Settings:










Result & temps:


----------



## AndreySV

plz some one tell me 1 error at full stock for mem kit is it ok? Can it be error cuz of OC LLC cash or tFAW 16? May be need to give it back to the shope?


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> plz some one tell me 1 error at full stock for mem kit is it ok? Can it be error cuz of OC LLC cash or tFAW 16? May be need to give it back to the shope?
> 
> View attachment 2537988


It's because of command rate 1.
Not enough IO/SA for CR1 or most probably CR1 simply not possible.
What is your IO and SA?
tFAW 16 is correct.


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> It's because of command rate 1.
> Not enough IO/SA for CR1 or most probably CR1 simply not possible.
> What is your IO and SA?
> tFAW 16 is correct.


It's gear2 mode it's always T1 so it's not a problem for SA/IO 1.18V/1.38V. I checked if i rise Vdimm to 1.56V there are no errors


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> It's gear2 mode it's always T1 so it's not a problem for SA/IO 1.18V/1.38V. I checked if i rise Vdimm to 1.56V there are no errors


4000 MHz gear 2 is really bad, performance wise.


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> 4000 MHz gear 2 is really bad, performance wise.


Dude to get 4000mhz gear 1 probably need 1.85V MEMIO i don't wanna risk so much,cuz on my even 3733 G1 need more than 1.45V


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> Dude to get 4000mhz gear 1 probably need 1.85V MEMIO i don't wanna risk so much,cuz on my even 3733 G1 need more than 1.45V


3600 gear 1 is much faster than 4000 gear 2.
And it's mostly SA, not IO.
IO is always much lower than SA.
Your CPU memory controller either can or can't do 4000 MHz gear 1.
If it can, it will do it at acceptable voltage.
If it can't, it doesn't matter how high the voltage will be. It still won't be able to do 4000 MHz gear 1.


----------



## Arni90

AndreySV said:


> Dude to get 4000mhz gear 1 probably need 1.85V MEMIO i don't wanna risk so much,cuz on my even 3733 G1 need more than 1.45V


For most people, the primary goal is to reduce the memory latency by raising IMC/SA frequency (and thus in turn memory frequency). If you go down to gear 2 to reach higher memory frequency, you halve the IMC/SA frequency, which in turn makes many benchmarks a lot slower.

If you're running something extremely parallel, and also very bandwidth-bound, higher memory bandwidth will always help. This can be seen in y-cruncher, compression algorithms, and certain rendering workloads. For games, web browsing, and other single-threaded workloads, the most important part is memory latency.


----------



## AndreySV

Arni90 said:


> For most people, the primary goal is to reduce the memory latency by raising IMC/SA frequency (and thus in turn memory frequency). If you go down to gear 2 to reach higher memory frequency, you halve the IMC/SA frequency, which in turn makes many benchmarks a lot slower.
> 
> If you're running something extremely parallel, and also very bandwidth-bound, higher memory bandwidth will always help. This can be seen in y-cruncher, compression algorithms, and certain rendering workloads. For games, web browsing, and other single-threaded workloads, the most important part is memory latency.


ok i don't have setting on my mother board for mem freqency voltage settings only for CPU. I have problems even with 3733G1 1.4v SA/1.45V IO. Also i wanna boot for 24/7 3600CL12 what Vdimm is safe? I know that 1.63V still errors for 3600CL12 i thinking it would be needs around 1.65V


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> ok i don't have setting on my mother board for mem freqency voltage settings only for CPU. I have problems even with 3733G1 1.4v SA/1.45V IO. Also i wanna boot for 24/7 3600CL12 what Vdimm is safe? I know that 1.63V still errors for 3600CL12 i fin it would be around 1.65V


You can forget 3600 CL12.


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> You can forget 3600 CL12.


Can u explay? So for what this b-dies for that price ? Cuz 2x times cheaper b-dies goes 3733CL14 I pay 2x times for 1 CL?


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> Can u explay? So for what this b-dies for that price ? Cuz 2x times cheaper b-dies goes 3733CL14 I pay 2x times for 1 CL?


Best you can expect is 13-14-14 or 14-14-14.


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> Best you can expect is 13-14-14 or 14-14-14.


It's already goes 3600CL13-13-28 and it's goes 3733CL13 i just dont like high io/sa, so i kept it on 3600 but to not lose perfomance wanna get 3600CL12


----------



## tps3443

Check out the 11900K ( ECO Tree hugger Edition). Haha. I’ve got two “Economic profiles” going on here.

259 watts for 5.4Ghz all cores. And 229 watts for 5.3Ghz all cores. Memory is at (4000CL14 Gear 1) with some added IO/SA voltages. I could probably milk it down below 200 watts at 5.3Ghz if I ran memory on auto.

5.3Ghz under load uses 1.349V per HWinfo.
5.4Ghz under load uses 1.423V Per HWinfo.

PS: These benchmarks are not shooting for high numbers, I was just playing around with creating a silent, but extreme OC profile.

Let me start by saying, this CPU at 5.3Ghz running “Cinebench R15 Extreme”, can consume the same power, as my other 11900K running BONE STOCK 4.8 on the normal R15 test lol.


----------



## pipes

Vi ha inculato bene Intel con i chip serie 11, li ha fatti durare 6 mesi...tana Madana...cut ciapessa

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Groove2013

pipes said:


> Vi ha inculato bene Intel con i chip serie 11, li ha fatti durare 6 mesi...tana Madana...cut ciapessa
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


English only here!


----------



## pipes

Groove2013 said:


> English only here!


Translate pls

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Geekounet

By the way guys, are these voltages normal on idle?


----------



## Groove2013

Geekounet said:


> By the way guys, are these voltages normal on idle?
> 
> View attachment 2538337


Depends on what vcore is set in the BIOS and what LLC level.


----------



## Geekounet

Groove2013 said:


> Depends on what vcore is set in the BIOS and what LLC level.


Vcore auto & LLC on "normal"


----------



## Groove2013

Geekounet said:


> Vcore auto & LLC on "normal"


Never use auto


----------



## Geekounet

Groove2013 said:


> Never use auto


Okay gonna try 1.380 fixed, thanks


----------



## Geekounet

Not stable at 1.380 gonna try 1.390 then 1.400, btw what's the maximum safe on this generation? it was 1.400 before & now? knowing that the temps are under control, what's the most important btw, temps or voltage?


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> Vdimm? IO/SA?


VDIMM 1.59 V (BIOS).
IO 1.12 V (BIOS)
SA 1.441 V (BIOS, with LLC 3 for SA)
2×16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-15-*15*-234-2N gear 1.


----------



## Geekounet

Finally 1.380 works fine with LLC set to Turbo but during cinebench test temps are noticeably higher than Auto :/

Fixed 1.380 Turbo LLC
















Auto voltage with Normal LLC


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Finally 1.380 works fine with LLC set to Turbo but during cinebench test temps are noticeably higher than Auto :/
> 
> Fixed 1.380 Turbo LLC
> 
> View attachment 2538350
> View attachment 2538350
> 
> 
> Auto voltage with Normal LLC
> 
> View attachment 2538351
> View attachment 2538351


You can run auto voltage with a good enough motherboard. It is all up to your silicon quality anyways based on how much voltage will be supplied. It is determined


I have two 11900K’s. One loves voltage and heat, the other doesn’t like voltage at all, and runs a lot cooler.


Also, you can’t compare voltage between other people. Because everyone’s CPU is different.


I have two 11900K’s

One uses 1.026V in the bios at 3.5Ghz. And 1.276V at 4.8Ghz all cores with 226 watts power consumption Under load

My other 11900K uses 0.919V in the bios at 3.5Ghz. And 1.195V at 4.8Ghz all cores with 148 watts power consumption under load.

^ This is with auto voltage, on the exact same motherboard and bios. The fact is, every single CPU silicon is different. Auto voltage will tell us how good a CPU may or may not be. They all run different temps, and need different voltages.

I wish Intel would tighten the tolerances on their 11900K’s. Having one that can do 5.3Ghz all cores at over 200 watts AVX stable, and another 5.3Ghz all cores NOT AVX stable at nearly 400 watts is really ludicrous.

Also, some CPU’s stabilize better with auto voltage. Some like bclk overclocking more too.


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> You can run auto voltage with a good enough motherboard. It is all up to your silicon quality anyways based on how much voltage will be supplied. It is determined
> 
> 
> I have two 11900K’s. One loves voltage and heat, the other doesn’t like voltage at all, and runs a lot cooler.
> 
> 
> Also, you can’t compare voltage between other people. Because everyone’s CPU is different.
> 
> 
> I have two 11900K’s
> 
> One uses 1.026V in the bios at 3.5Ghz. And 1.276V at 4.8Ghz all cores with 226 watts power consumption Under load
> 
> My other 11900K uses 0.919V in the bios at 3.5Ghz. And 1.195V at 4.8Ghz all cores with 148 watts power consumption under load.
> 
> ^ This is with auto voltage, on the exact same motherboard and bios. The fact is, every single CPU silicon is different. Auto voltage will tell us how good a CPU may or may not be. They all run different temps, and need different voltages.
> 
> I wish Intel would tighten the tolerances on their 11900K’s. Having one that can do 5.3Ghz all cores at over 200 watts AVX stable, and another 5.3Ghz all cores NOT AVX stable at nearly 400 watts is really ludicrous.
> 
> Also, some CPU’s stabilize better with auto voltage. Some like bclk overclocking more too.



My main problem with auto voltage is that they were the way too high on idle as you see in this screenshot, otherwise it was running fine under load with less heat & much wattage draw, 220W with auto and 81c & 210 with 1.380 with turbo llc but 5 degrees more at 86c...


----------



## Geekounet

& by the way i think i need another lapping session as there's 8 degrees higher temps on some cores


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> & by the way i think i need another lapping session as there's 8 degrees higher temps on some cores
> 
> 
> View attachment 2538523
> View attachment 2538523


Your core to core temps aren’t too bad. I even have one core that’s about 6C too high. I run just bare die with no die frame, no IHS, and no ILM at all.

it’s the socket locking mechanism, and cpu socket pins, and the cpu cooler mounting that greatly effects your cold plate to IHS mount evenness.

Think about this for a moment. You place a brand new CPU in to a CPU socket, and latch it down. Do you think that cpu is perfectly flat? It’s not. Because the latching mechanism is gonna lay it down whatever way it wants. This is why IHS is domed in the center to begin with. Because if it was perfectly flat and the cpu block was perfectly flat. The CPU socket could clamp is down crooked. It doesn’t apply perfect pressure at each corner to press down the cpu socket pins 100% evenly.

What I would recommend is pressing down on the very center of your AIO block firmly. Then lightly spin down each screw in a cross pattern motion until they just stop. Let go of the cpu AIO block, and snug two corner in a cross pattern at a time.


Using no ILM is nice, because the waterblock tightening presses down the cpu in to the pins and maintains a perfect flatness for the die to block contact. The pins act as a suspension and any unevenness goes in to the cpu socket pins. And not between the die and block. Or not between the IHS and block.

Something to consider, if your after really good temps. Also, that Coolermaster ML240 does not work so well. I have one of those on my other 11900K Z490 rig. It is direct die, and still struggles so bad to maintain reasonable temps.

Have you considered getting a beefier AIO?


----------



## tps3443

@Geekounet


Have you considered a custom water loop?

These are my temps during a Cinebench R15 run at 5.4Ghz all cores direct die. (No die frame) (No IHS) (No Latching mechanism)

It’s pretty crazy and unbelievable looking I know. These chips love to run SUB 70C all the time. That is where they shine at.


----------



## Geekounet

You have some awesome temps with your direct die watercooling but even with that i'll not be able to reach higher core clocks because of the silicon lottery, my chip already needs 1.380v for 5.0Ghz all cores so i don't think i can't go any further except if i play with it's longevity and go for unsafe voltages... i'm gonna try the method you gave me for attaching the AIO block, if there's no effect after this i will maybe try to get a beefier AIO, btw, which one in 240/280 would you recommend to me? don't have the enough perforations on the top of my case for a 360 (except if i put it in push/pull config in the front of it)...


----------



## Geekounet

I have no temps issues whatsoever while gaming though...


----------



## Geekounet

BTW my core to core temps are 8c higher, i think there's too much of a gap


----------



## Groove2013

Final settings of my SP 45 i9-11900K on a 280×27 mm EK-AiO + direct DIE after 16 hours of Prime95.

In February I will have a new case with 2 or 3 360×45 copper radiators.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> BTW my core to core temps are 8c higher, i think there's too much of a gap


Hey, you still tighten down the AIO all the way. I only meant you press down in the center first to make sure the AIO cold plate presses all the way flat to the IHS during your tightening process.


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Final settings of my SP 45 i9-11900K on a 280×27 mm EK-AiO + direct DIE after 16 hours of Prime95.
> 
> In February I will have a new case with 2 or 3 360×45 copper radiators.


Looks good to me! You even got 4000 Gear 1! That’s fantastic. Looks like a decent chip, with a solid IMC. 

Can the chip go higher than 5.2?

Also, if running 2-3 radiators, make sure to supplement with (2) D5 pumps. I’d highly recommend the Optimus Signature V2 block. They commonly have the BLEM models available for like $100 bucks or so. (Totally worth it)


4000 Gear (1) makes a huge difference for 11th Gen. Not many of them out there can run 4000 Gear 1 at all. Even if it can’t do anything fascinating on the cores, at least you’ve got a strong IMC.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> I have no temps issues whatsoever while gaming though...
> View attachment 2538605
> View attachment 2538605


Yeah it’s a great setup. 11th Gen is pretty fun. Because some chips have bad cores and some don’t have bad cores. However, my last 11900K could only stabilize 5.2Ghz during AVX, the CPU could game in anything for any amount of time at 5.4Ghz.

So, with better cooling you could crank up a nice gaming OC profile that would certainly help a little. It may not be like Cinebench stable, or Y-Cruncher stable. But, it’ll fly in games!!

Since 12th Gen launched it only made 11th Gen a far better value. Especially the 11700K. Properly tuned and configured this machine rips. And at that point you’ve reached diminishing returns no matter how much you spend on a 12th Gen/Z690 motherboards. Because you literally already have about 95% of the best gaming performance you can have in 2021.


----------



## tps3443

@Geekounet

I would recommend the EVGA 280MM/360MM AIO with some Kingpin Paste or Thermalright TFX would be great.

The Evga AIO is like $80-$90 bucks on Amazon. Probably even less on eBay.

Evga offers a warranty on used products too. So, if you bought a used on. You still get the remainder of its warranty.

I’m not sure why the Coolermaster ML240 is so bad. But like I said, I own one and it runs on my delidded 11900K. And it severely struggles.


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> Hey, you still tighten down the AIO all the way. I only meant you press down in the center first to make sure the AIO cold plate presses all the way flat to the IHS during your tightening process.


Yeah i understood that, i was talking about the difference between the cores, 8c is a bit high i think, gonna try your method later on, thanks 



tps3443 said:


> @Geekounet
> 
> I would recommend the EVGA 280MM/360MM AIO with some Kingpin Paste or Thermalright TFX would be great.
> 
> The Evga AIO is like $80-$90 bucks on Amazon. Probably even less on eBay.
> 
> Evga offers a warranty on used products too. So, if you bought a used on. You still get the remainder of its warranty.
> 
> I’m not sure why the Coolermaster ML240 is so bad. But like I said, I own one and it runs on my delidded 11900K. And it severely struggles.


Okay i will definitely check these out as now i'm sure with your feedback that this AIO sucks & as you've may seen, i already received the KPX paste few days ago


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Yeah i understood that, i was talking about the difference between the cores, 8c is a bit high i think, gonna try your method later on, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Okay i will definitely check these out as now i'm sure with your feedback that this AIO sucks & as you've may seen, i already received the KPX paste few days ago


For some reason core 5 was the hottest core on both of my 11900K’s. Not sure why. Your 11700K has the same thing. I could never get them in check, or perfectly close to the other core temps. So, you can try a re-mount. But if Core 5 doesn’t want to cooperate, I wouldn’t worry about it.

Also, your chip is capable of more. Probably 5.1Ghz at least. 1.380V is not much. It may seem like it on that AIO you have. But usually 1.400-1.499 is the safe daily reliable voltage for 11th Gen. Also, temps in the high 70’s-80’s would want even more voltage.

Set your CPU to 4.8Ghz all cores for me, and set voltage to auto, and run R15 for me and let me know what the load voltage is (I’m curious)


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> Set your CPU to 4.8Ghz all cores for me, and set voltage to auto, and run R15 for me and let me know what the load voltage is (I’m curious)


Here you go


----------



## JSHamlet234

tps3443 said:


> Yeah it’s a great setup. 11th Gen is pretty fun. Because some chips have bad cores and some don’t have bad cores. However, my last 11900K could only stabilize 5.2Ghz during AVX, the CPU could game in anything for any amount of time at 5.4Ghz.
> 
> So, with better cooling you could crank up a nice gaming OC profile that would certainly help a little. It may not be like Cinebench stable, or Y-Cruncher stable. But, it’ll fly in games!!


I hate CPUs like that, where there is that one workload that needs to run 200MHz slower than any other workload. I also can't stand it when there is a wide variation in core quality. That's a double-whammy. A sample like that wouldn't last long in one of my rigs.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Here you go
> 
> View attachment 2538660
> View attachment 2538660


Your power usage doesn’t look bad at all for an 11700K. But the voltage is seriously high looking for only 4.8Ghz. Do you have C-States enabled? And do you have voltage optimization on? Enabling them may help a little with reducing load voltage.

Maybe your motherboard just doesn’t handle auto voltage very well. I suppose your 5Ghz profile you have dialed in is pretty good then.


I would recommend a delid if it wasn’t so tedious on 11th Gen (So, I’d advise against it if replacements are expensive or hard to come by). until then the only thing I can really recommend is a better AIO. I know obtaining certain PC parts is difficult outside the US. As of 2020/2021 it’s even tough obtaining them in the US lol.

Anyways, your 5Ghz at 1.380 is really not bad at all for an 11700K on just that 240 AIO.


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> Your power usage doesn’t look bad at all for an 11700K. But the voltage is seriously high looking for only 4.8Ghz. Do you have C-States enabled? And do you have voltage optimization on? Enabling them may help a little with reducing load voltage.
> 
> Maybe your motherboard just doesn’t handle auto voltage very well. I suppose your 5Ghz profile you have dialed in is pretty good then.
> 
> 
> I would recommend a delid if it wasn’t so tedious on 11th Gen (So, I’d advise against it if replacements are expensive or hard to come by). until then the only thing I can really recommend is a better AIO. I know obtaining certain PC parts is difficult outside the US. As of 2020/2021 it’s even tough obtaining them in the US lol.
> 
> Anyways, your 5Ghz at 1.380 is really not bad at all for an 11700K on just that 240 AIO.


I'm gonna check C-state and voltage optimization & will enable them if they're not, yeah delid is tedious and scares me on that chip with the smd's on the side & that's why i started with a simple "lapping", for the AIO i found the EVGA CLC 280 for 80$ (brand new), maybe i'll take it if really needed.

Thanks again for all your tips & advices, gonna check out the bios now & let you know about the latest settings you told me about


----------



## Geekounet

Here's what i've found on my settings, they were all on auto so i enabled them all:
















For voltage optimization i've found nothing as you can see here
















and by the way LLC was reset on normal on the previous 4.8Ghz test and now i re put it on Turbo, test is coming...


----------



## Geekounet

About the same voltages with C-State enabled:


----------



## Geekounet

No changes after remounting the AIO the way you told me, this gonna end up with an AIO replacement


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> About the same voltages with C-State enabled:
> 
> View attachment 2538713
> View attachment 2538713


Well your max VID is down to 1.428V from 1.440V. And your idle voltages are drastically reduced as well. As long as performance is consistent, nothing wrong with C-States being on.


----------



## AndreySV

Hi guys, I use for now manual mode for Vcore with overaid 1.35V, but it's keep always at this amount, why it's any more not reduced? what also need to set in bios to Vcore drop at idle?


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> Well your max VID is down to 1.428V from 1.440V. And your idle voltages are drastically reduced as well. As long as performance is consistent, nothing wrong with C-States being on.


Yup nothing wrong at all, thanks again for the help


----------



## Geekounet

Hi guys it's me again,

I've done a bios update yesterday (F6 for gigabyte, Major vulnerabilities updates) i had to reconfigure my overclock & something weird is happenning, the clocks are as set to 5Ghz but as soon as i press "start" on CBR23 the clocks drops down to 4.6Ghz with no AVX offset at all, i've already had this issue (after a bios update too) and i can't remember which setting was involved, any help please? thanks


----------



## Geekounet

Finally did it through XTU


----------



## Solohuman

Geekounet said:


> Hi guys it's me again,
> 
> I've done a bios update yesterday (F6 for gigabyte, Major vulnerabilities updates) i had to reconfigure my overclock & something weird is happenning, the clocks are as set to 5Ghz but as soon as i press "start" on CBR23 the clocks drops down to 4.6Ghz with no AVX offset at all, i've already had this issue (after a bios update too) and i can't remember which setting was involved, any help please? thanks


I have a very similar system to you & was experimenting with AVX + CB23 today, the downclocking is thermal throttling but if you want to run AVX in that benchmark without downclocking then you better have a super duper extreme cooling solution & a hefty reliable PSU to complement as well. AVX & its variation is extra stressful on the whole cpu architecture more than anything else out there today. I have so many options in my Gigabyte Aorus Ultra bios, it's a tweakers dream. The problem is spending time testing & retesting, a challenge when life has to be lived outside of PC work.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Hi guys it's me again,
> 
> I've done a bios update yesterday (F6 for gigabyte, Major vulnerabilities updates) i had to reconfigure my overclock & something weird is happenning, the clocks are as set to 5Ghz but as soon as i press "start" on CBR23 the clocks drops down to 4.6Ghz with no AVX offset at all, i've already had this issue (after a bios update too) and i can't remember which setting was involved, any help please? thanks


I think that would be the TVB thermal
throttle Settings. you should disable it. When temps reach 60-70C the core clocks drop down.


----------



## tps3443

I found this thread which was a great read for 10th Gen and 11th Gen. it has a lot of interesting information. It is in German, but it was awesome reading through it once translated.










[Sammelthread] - OC Prozessoren Intel Sockel 1200 (Comet Lake-S / Rocket Lake-S)


Ein Bug mit dem kräftig Werbung gemacht wird. Bin da bei Roman. Denke was da passiert ist ein absolutes NoGo! @VSS kann ich mich leider nicht dran erinnern ob da damals Asus etwas ähnliches gemacht hat. Hab das so eigentlich noch nicht erlebt, dachte ich ^^




www.hardwareluxx.de


----------



## Geekounet

Solohuman said:


> I have a very similar system to you & was experimenting with AVX + CB23 today, the downclocking is thermal throttling but if you want to run AVX in that benchmark without downclocking then you better have a super duper extreme cooling solution & a hefty reliable PSU to complement as well. AVX & its variation is extra stressful on the whole cpu architecture more than anything else out there today. I have so many options in my Gigabyte Aorus Ultra bios, it's a tweakers dream. The problem is spending time testing & retesting, a challenge when life has to be lived outside of PC work.



That's not thermal throttling as i've disabled it + it starts as soon as i begin the test so even before reaching 70c, i don't know what's wrong with this bios but i think there's a problem as i'm not able to do stress tests or even games at 5Ghz, it always clocks down to 4.6Ghz as soon as i start a game or a stress test, before this update i was completely stable at 5Ghz all cores with a fixed 1.380v (reaching 85c max core temp on stress test & max 75c peaks while gaming with an average of 60c) now i'm experiencing crashes when i manage to maintain the clocks up, i'm not even able to go back to F5 version of the bios as they did something to block this, gonna stay at stock settings for the moment until there's a new bios update :/


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> I found this thread which was a great read for 10th Gen and 11th Gen. it has a lot of interesting information. It is in German, but it was awesome reading through it once translated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Sammelthread] - OC Prozessoren Intel Sockel 1200 (Comet Lake-S / Rocket Lake-S)
> 
> 
> Ein Bug mit dem kräftig Werbung gemacht wird. Bin da bei Roman. Denke was da passiert ist ein absolutes NoGo! @VSS kann ich mich leider nicht dran erinnern ob da damals Asus etwas ähnliches gemacht hat. Hab das so eigentlich noch nicht erlebt, dachte ich ^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hardwareluxx.de


Gonna take the time to read the translation, thanks


----------



## JSHamlet234

Geekounet said:


> That's not thermal throttling as i've disabled it + it starts as soon as i begin the test so even before reaching 70c, i don't know what's wrong with this bios but i think there's a problem as i'm not able to do stress tests or even games at 5Ghz, it always clocks down to 4.6Ghz as soon as i start a game or a stress test, before this update i was completely stable at 5Ghz all cores with a fixed 1.380v (reaching 85c max core temp on stress test & max 75c peaks while gaming with an average of 60c) now i'm experiencing crashes when i manage to maintain the clocks up, i'm not even able to go back to F5 version of the bios as they did something to block this, gonna stay at stock settings for the moment until there's a new bios update :/


Sounds like iccMax is too low.


----------



## Solohuman

Geekounet said:


> That's not thermal throttling as i've disabled it + it starts as soon as i begin the test so even before reaching 70c, i don't know what's wrong with this bios but i think there's a problem as i'm not able to do stress tests or even games at 5Ghz, it always clocks down to 4.6Ghz as soon as i start a game or a stress test, before this update i was completely stable at 5Ghz all cores with a fixed 1.380v (reaching 85c max core temp on stress test & max 75c peaks while gaming with an average of 60c) now i'm experiencing crashes when i manage to maintain the clocks up, i'm not even able to go back to F5 version of the bios as they did something to block this, gonna stay at stock settings for the moment until there's a new bios update :/


Yes I know there are problems with the new bios & it seems it's not confined to your model of board either. I've has issues where you dial in some settings & when windows settles at the desktop, firing up HWiNFO reveals the bios has not applied the settings you changed. To overcome this I've had to use the XTU app in order to get the system to conform to my settings. The turbo boost is broken on my system when complete defaults are applied in the bios. Freaking annoying to say the least. Lucky XTU can save our asses! Next time I get another board, it probably will not be a Gigabyte. 
At least with XTU, it's a pretty good interface for experimenting with overclocks. Just read the basics & be sure the bios is at defaults before using it.


----------



## Geekounet

Been doing some testing on the "stock" settings and this stress test shows that my chip can do 4.6Ghz


JSHamlet234 said:


> Sounds like iccMax is too low.


System agent icc max? if so it's set to unlimited :/



Solohuman said:


> Yes I know there are problems with the new bios & it seems it's not confined to your model of board either. I've has issues where you dial in some settings & when windows settles at the desktop, firing up HWiNFO reveals the bios has not applied the settings you changed. To overcome this I've had to use the XTU app in order to get the system to conform to my settings. The turbo boost is broken on my system when complete defaults are applied in the bios. Freaking annoying to say the least. Lucky XTU can save our asses! Next time I get another board, it probably will not be a Gigabyte.
> At least with XTU, it's a pretty good interface for experimenting with overclocks. Just read the basics & be sure the bios is at defaults before using it.


Yes this latest Gigabyte bios is completely f***** up, yeah XTU can help but i've also seen some weird behaviors on it since this bios update so it's not completely applying the settings i think, that's why i'm back to stock for the moment, don't want to break something because of their ****ty bios :/

The same for me, next board will not be gigabyte because of these bios issues...


----------



## Mnemonic

ehm, does anyone have any idea about how an 11700K made in china would oc ?
just bought one and it's made in china...not vietnam.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> That's not thermal throttling as i've disabled it + it starts as soon as i begin the test so even before reaching 70c, i don't know what's wrong with this bios but i think there's a problem as i'm not able to do stress tests or even games at 5Ghz, it always clocks down to 4.6Ghz as soon as i start a game or a stress test, before this update i was completely stable at 5Ghz all cores with a fixed 1.380v (reaching 85c max core temp on stress test & max 75c peaks while gaming with an average of 60c) now i'm experiencing crashes when i manage to maintain the clocks up, i'm not even able to go back to F5 version of the bios as they did something to block this, gonna stay at stock settings for the moment until there's a new bios update :/


It’s a power setting in the bios. The CPU is trying to stay inside of the 125 watts TDP Power envelope. You probably have power limits set on Auto.


----------



## tps3443

Mnemonic said:


> ehm, does anyone have any idea about how an 11700K made in china would oc ?
> just bought one and it's made in china...not vietnam.



All CPU’s are different. Both of my 11900K’s are from the same place, with similar batch numbers.

However one of my 11900K‘s pulls 226 watts stock 4.8Ghz, the other one can run 5.3Ghz all cores and pull 226 watts.

The reason why, is because one requires a whole lot less voltage and it also runs drastically cooler.

Totally different processors, even though they are from the same place and both called (Intel i9 11900K)


One laughs at 5.4Ghz AVX loads ( on all cores) at around 260 watts full load. While my other one of them is picky at just 5.2Ghz AVX and can consume 350-400 watts of power.

^ The same can be said for an 11700K. The only way to get an idea of what you have is to run HWinfo, reset bios, and test the CPU in test(s) like Cinebench and you’ll see the voltage and power Maximums. Test again with a different chip, and it’ll be drastically different (Worse or better) 


The lower the power they use “Stock”, the better the CPU is usually.


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> It’s a power setting in the bios. The CPU is trying to stay inside of the 125 watts TDP Power envelope. You probably have power limits set on Auto.


Nope, all power limits are maxed out, it's definitely a bios problem as confirmed by @Solohuman, can't wait for the update :/


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Nope, all power limits are maxed out, it's definitely a bios problem as confirmed by @Solohuman, can't wait for the update :/


One of the true benefits to having a bios switch on motherboards, and even GPU’s.

Also, I own a Z490 Aorus Elite which runs my other 11900K. Their bios update process is not the most user friendly. But it works well enough. Pretty sure my 11900K clocks down under-loads on that board as well. It’s my wife’s computer, and it’s only used by her for light daily work loads. So, I never even bothered investigating it. It does well with a stock 5.3 boost, and 4.8 all core load, 3733.CL14 Gear (1) mode 


If it were me, I’d flash back the old bios back on. But it’s kind of a nuisance downloading the bios, putting the bios on a USB drive, loading in to the bios, and then installing it from there. Also, I get sketched out when I install older bios that way. I try to move forward not backwards Lol. If they release a new bios, I will upgrade it.


----------



## Geekounet

tps3443 said:


> One of the true benefits to having a bios switch on motherboards, and even GPU’s.
> 
> Also, I own a Z490 Aorus Elite which runs my other 11900K. Their bios update process is not the most user friendly. But it works well enough. Pretty sure my 11900K clocks down under-loads on that board as well. It’s my wife’s computer, and it’s only used by her for light daily work loads. So, I never even bothered investigating it. It does well with a stock 5.3 boost, and 4.8 all core load, 3733.CL14 Gear (1) mode
> 
> 
> If it were me, I’d flash back the old bios back on. But it’s kind of a nuisance downloading the bios, putting the bios on a USB drive, loading in to the bios, and then installing it from there. Also, I get sketched out when I install older bios that way. I try to move forward not backwards Lol. If they release a new bios, I will upgrade it.


There's a dual bios on my mobo but not accessible through a switch like my 3070 TUF (or other mobos with this feature), i think the 2nd one is there just to help if the first one's broke...

For the downgrade i can't as they added this to the bios: Introduce capsule BIOS support starting this version. Customers will NOT be able to reverse to previous BIOS version due to major vulnerabilities concerns.

Will wait for the next one, i even noticed some RAM unstabilities with this bios & have read on the gigabyte forum that some other users also had ram issues too, this bios is pretty f***** up to say the least...


----------



## tps3443

^^ Yeah I always want to be able to down grade bios if I want to. I swap between bios periodically throughout the week on my evga dark board.


----------



## tps3443

This is my NEW daily profile. Stable as a rock! This 11900k RIPS!!!

5.5Ghz all cores, 4.6Ghz cache/ring. 
(Gaming Obliteration)


----------



## flexjenl

Mnemonic said:


> ehm, does anyone have any idea about how an 11700K made in china would oc ?
> just bought one and it's made in china...not vietnam.


i got one from china yesterday and so far its looking good can run 5,1 @ 1.23v (probably lower V, still testing) and it runs pretty cool with max 79C on xtu benchmark (custom loop)


----------



## AndreySV

I need help ASUS Z590 TUF 11700KF, i set ovveride Vcore 1.31V and it's work fine with 4.8Ghz all core and 4.1Ghz Cashe.But i try to use adaptive mode or offset and it's won't work at AIDA stess test with CPU&Cash it's alway rise Vcore up to 1.5V ***? Kepp it all on ovveride mode?


----------



## Groove2013

tps3443 said:


> This is my NEW daily profile. Stable as a rock! This 11900k RIPS!!!
> 
> 5.5Ghz all cores, 4.6Ghz cache/ring.
> (Gaming Obliteration)
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539528


Your RAM timings aren't optimal at all.
With 14-14-14, tCWL should be 14, not 16.
tFAW should be 16, not 18.
tRTP 6 or 8, not 12.
tWR 10 is very bad.
If you can't manage to do tWR 8 (with tRRD_L and _S 4), then run tWR 12 instead.
tWR 12 performs worse than 8, but better than 10.
So it's tWR 8, 12 or 16. Not 10 or 14.

And as you can't do tWR 8, then tRRD_L should be 6, not 4. 6 performs better.

See if you have TXP timing. 4 or if not, 5 should work.
PPD timing should be 0.
This way you could do tCKE 4.

And all the tertiary timings are suboptimal as well.
You get tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr and _dd by substracting tCWL from tCL.
So if tCL is 14 and tCWL 14, all 4 tRDWR should be 10, because 14-14+10=10. Or if 10 doesn't work, then 11.

tWRWR_dr and _dd could possible be 6.

tRDRD_dr and _dd possibly 5, otherwise 6.
tWRRD_dr and _dd possibly 5, otherwise 6.

tRDRD_sg possibly 6.
tWRWR_sg possibly 6.


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> Guy i need help ASUS Z590 TUF 11700KF, i set ovveride Vcore 1.31V and it's work fine with 4.8Ghz all core and 4.1Ghz Cashe.But i try to use adaptive mode or offset and it's won't work at AIDA stess test with CPU&Cash it's alway rise Vcore up to 1.5V ***? Kepp it all on ovveride mode?


No adaptive. Only fixed vcore.


----------



## tps3443

AndreySV said:


> Guy i need help ASUS Z590 TUF 11700KF, i set ovveride Vcore 1.31V and it's work fine with 4.8Ghz all core and 4.1Ghz Cashe.But i try to use adaptive mode or offset and it's won't work at AIDA stess test with CPU&Cash it's alway rise Vcore up to 1.5V ***? Kepp it all on ovveride mode?


I run override voltage daily with my 11900K. I’m not particularly fond of adaptive voltage. I’ve heavily tested 1.500V daily with no issues for 5.5Ghz.


Go for override voltage with load line for your needs. Or run a per core voltage with the load line you need.


----------



## tps3443

Bought a 1HP water chiller! This thing will cool down anything lol


----------



## Geekounet

By the way, i wish i had a friend who can lend me a Z490 or Z590 from another manufacturer, i'm pretty sure my chip can do better with another brand mobo, any of you guys are in Algiers?


----------



## tps3443

Groove2013 said:


> Your RAM timings aren't optimal at all.
> With 14-14-14, tCWL should be 14, not 16.
> tFAW should be 16, not 18.
> tRTP 6 or 8, not 12.
> tWR 10 is very bad.
> If you can't manage to do tWR 8 (with tRRD_L and _S 4), then run tWR 12 instead.
> tWR 12 performs worse than 8, but better than 10.
> So it's tWR 8, 12 or 16. Not 10 or 14.
> 
> And as you can't do tWR 8, then tRRD_L should be 6, not 4. 6 performs better.
> 
> See if you have TXP timing. 4 or if not, 5 should work.
> PPD timing should be 0.
> This way you could do tCKE 4.
> 
> And all the tertiary timings are suboptimal as well.
> You get tRDWR_sg, _dg, _dr and _dd by substracting tCWL from tCL.
> So if tCL is 14 and tCWL 14, all 4 tRDWR should be 10, because 14-14+10=10. Or if 10 doesn't work, then 11.
> 
> tWRWR_dr and _dd could possible be 6.
> 
> tRDRD_dr and _dd possibly 5, otherwise 6.
> tWRRD_dr and _dd possibly 5, otherwise 6.
> 
> tRDRD_sg possibly 6.
> tWRWR_sg possibly 6.


Thanks for helping me out with this. I’m still learning with memory timings. They’ll run the above settings. I actually had them configured like that before, I lost the profile.


----------



## AndreySV

Groove2013 said:


> No adaptive. Only fixed vcore.


But it's always 1.31V even at idle, is it possible some how to change that?


----------



## Groove2013

AndreySV said:


> But it's always 1.31V even at idle, is it possible some how to change that?


Fixed is fixed.
Such voltage with no/low load or rather very low amperage/wattage doesn't degrade anything.


----------



## tps3443

AndreySV said:


> But it's always 1.31V even at idle, is it possible some how to change that?


My current 11900K is always sitting at 1.493V Vcore. For 8 hours per day during work, and even after work.

I feel like if you keep the processor cool, this is the most important aspect of it all.

If you set a fixed voltage, it doesn’t allow the voltages to clock down during idle usage. 

You could possibly use an auto voltage with a-bunch of VDroop.


----------



## Geekounet

Someone can remind what are the optimal voltages for:
VCCSA
VCCIO (2016 6L) (RKL)
VCCIO2 (RKL)
VCCST
VCCPLL_OC
VCCVTT

Maybe it's those settings who are causing instability being on auto?

Thanks


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> Someone can remind what are the optimal voltages for:
> VCCSA
> VCCIO (2016 6L) (RKL)
> VCCIO2 (RKL)
> VCCST
> VCCPLL_OC
> VCCVTT
> 
> Maybe it's those settings who are causing instability being on auto?
> 
> Thanks


You only need VCCSA and VCCIO2 Don’t exceed 1.550V for either. 

I run 1.500VCCSA and 1.35 VCCIO2 

I run 4000 Gear 1 CL14


----------



## TheHunter

Hi,

I just got a 11700KF and I have some issues I think. had 10500 as a placeholder @ Z490 Unify, but now Im a bit confused.


1. Cpu at auto goes over the roof with auto voltage, seen it up to 1.50-1.60v, if I manually set in 1.30v it then shows 1.31v in windows, goes up to 1.38v or so, this is when I put in all cores 50x. But it doesnt drop bellow in low voltage in idle, frequency goes down to 800mhz.

How to I set it properly so it lowers voltage too?

2. I set cache to 42x for now, and kept ram in auto Gear1 @ 3600mhz atm, I have b-die g.skill CL16-16-16-36, it did 4266mhz CL16-16-16--36 (trfc300) at 1.47v on my old cpu, so i think ram is good. Tested all the way up to 4500 CL17-19-19-38 @ 1.45v and it worked, great latency too 38.6ns or so.

Will try these settings later for Gear2 how it goes.








Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion


guys, tested someone Microns-E on Z490? I had issues with stability, can not get to the OS on 4533 MHz, 4800 MHz no post. Kits are Crucial balistix max 5100 MHz. On AMD working fine...




www.overclock.net





ATM I set SA and ram IO both to 1.25v, I think auto set both to 1.40v or so.. What is somewhat safe stable Gear1 voltage for both?


3. AVX voltage offset, what is the safe -2 enough, to little?


this is how it looks atm



















Latency sucks, didnt tweak anything yet



















That said I want to get voltage to downclock properly, any tips?


----------



## Geekounet

I managed to borrow a Z490 Maximus XII Formula from a friend to test the real capabilities of my chip (with a better mobo), i installed everything on it started the pc then fans at 100%, i'm pretty sure the bios wasn't flashed for 11th gen so i did a bios flashback with usb, after the bios flashback finished the computer stayed on a reboot loop so i shut it down manually, after this the computer doesn't want to boot, all the lights & screen on the mobo are lit but neither the "start" button or shorting the pins boot it up, i ended removing it from the case suspecting a short somewhere (put it on the mobo box), NOTHING, same thing, everything lights up but it won't boot,i tried to flash it again with nothing attached to it but no results, i'm hopeless now, someone already experienced this with a ROG mobo?


----------



## tps3443

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got a 11700KF and I have some issues I think. had 10500 as a placeholder @ Z490 Unify, but now Im a bit confused.
> 
> 
> 1. Cpu at auto goes over the roof with auto voltage, seen it up to 1.50-1.60v, if I manually set in 1.30v it then shows 1.31v in windows, goes up to 1.38v or so, this is when I put in all cores 50x. But it doesnt drop bellow in low voltage in idle, frequency goes down to 800mhz.
> 
> How to I set it properly so it lowers voltage too?
> 
> 2. I set cache to 42x for now, and kept ram in auto Gear1 @ 3600mhz atm, I have b-die g.skill CL16-16-16-36, it did 4266mhz CL16-16-16--36 (trfc300) at 1.47v on my old cpu, so i think ram is good. Tested all the way up to 4500 CL17-19-19-38 @ 1.45v and it worked, great latency too 38.6ns or so.
> 
> Will try these settings later for Gear2 how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> guys, tested someone Microns-E on Z490? I had issues with stability, can not get to the OS on 4533 MHz, 4800 MHz no post. Kits are Crucial balistix max 5100 MHz. On AMD working fine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ATM I set SA and ram IO both to 1.25v, I think auto set both to 1.40v or so.. What is somewhat safe stable Gear1 voltage for both?
> 
> 
> 3. AVX voltage offset, what is the safe -2 enough, to little?
> 
> 
> this is how it looks atm
> View attachment 2539864
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539866
> 
> 
> 
> Latency sucks, didnt tweak anything yet
> 
> View attachment 2539868
> 
> View attachment 2539867
> 
> 
> 
> That said I want to get voltage to downclock properly, any tips?


Ok, undervolting an 11700K is not ideal at all. The silicon is not as good as it’s 11900K counter parts. So, auto voltage is voltage the the silicon is requesting based on its quality. Rocket lake does just fine with light to medium loads at 1.500-1.600V. So don’t worry too much about this.

Also, if you type in a manual voltage the. The voltage will not lower down when the CPU is idle on the desktop.


Also, even when you type a manual voltage it won’t go but so low, because it’s feeding the CPU the minimum it needs or requires.

Most 11900K’s need 1.250V to 1.275V for 4.8Ghz all cores. So an 11700K at 5.0Ghz with 1.315-1.325V is not terrible at all. It’s not gonna go much lower than that, if it’s even stable under AVX loads.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> I managed to borrow a Z490 Maximus XII Formula from a friend to test the real capabilities of my chip (with a better mobo), i installed everything on it started the pc then fans at 100%, i'm pretty sure the bios wasn't flashed for 11th gen so i did a bios flashback with usb, after the bios flashback finished the computer stayed on a reboot loop so i shut it down manually, after this the computer doesn't want to boot, all the lights & screen on the mobo are lit but neither the "start" button or shorting the pins boot it up, i ended removing it from the case suspecting a short somewhere (put it on the mobo box), NOTHING, same thing, everything lights up but it won't boot,i tried to flash it again with nothing attached to it but no results, i'm hopeless now, someone already experienced this with a ROG mobo?
> 
> View attachment 2539943
> View attachment 2539943
> View attachment 2539944
> View attachment 2539944
> View attachment 2539945
> View attachment 2539945


Unfortunately, I have never owned an Asus motherboard. Been on an Evga Dark board for the past three Intel generations now.

If I were you, I would highly advise that you use an Intel 10th Gen CPU to confirm that the motherboard works properly, and the newest bios is installed correctly.

Research the Asus bios install methods without a CPU and just re-do everything again. This process can be very particular and tedious.

Good luck.


----------



## bscool

Geekounet said:


> I managed to borrow a Z490 Maximus XII Formula from a friend to test the real capabilities of my chip (with a better mobo), i installed everything on it started the pc then fans at 100%, i'm pretty sure the bios wasn't flashed for 11th gen so i did a bios flashback with usb, after the bios flashback finished the computer stayed on a reboot loop so i shut it down manually, after this the computer doesn't want to boot, all the lights & screen on the mobo are lit but neither the "start" button or shorting the pins boot it up, i ended removing it from the case suspecting a short somewhere (put it on the mobo box), NOTHING, same thing, everything lights up but it won't boot,i tried to flash it again with nothing attached to it but no results, i'm hopeless now, someone already experienced this with a ROG mobo?
> 
> View attachment 2539943
> View attachment 2539943
> View attachment 2539944
> View attachment 2539944
> View attachment 2539945
> View attachment 2539945


Yeah people brick the mb/bios, flash first with 10th gen for later bios. Happened to many on Apex.


I wouldnt use Flashback as I have seen issues with it on z490 and z590. it works fine until it doesnt  On z590 Apex Flashback doesnt update microcode on my MB and others have reported the same.




ROG Maximus XII Apex



More info about the same happening on Apex. Not saying that is your issues but it sounds like it.


----------



## Geekounet

Thanks for your answers guys, by the way, is it possible that it doesn't start because there was no fan attached to CPU FAN? i just noticed that i've been connecting my rad fans to another header...


----------



## bscool

@Geekounet does the screen say error message about no fan? If not I doubt that is it. How do you explain this to your friend? 🙃

You can get programmers to flash the chip. They are not that expensive if that turns out to be the issue. Sure sounds like it is.


----------



## Geekounet

bscool said:


> @Geekounet does the screen say error message about no fan? If not I doubt that is it. How do you explain this to your friend? 🙃
> 
> You can get programmers to flash the chip. They are not that expensive if that turns out to be the issue. Sure sounds like it is.


I'm forced to buy it from him now as i've breaked it, programmers? what's this? the 10th gen solution does not work?


----------



## bscool

Geekounet said:


> I'm forced to buy it from him now as i've breaked it, programmers? what's this? the 10th gen solution wont work?


It was in the link I posted, about the programmer.



https://www.elmorlabs.com/forum/topic/spi-header-pinouts/



I have never done it so not sure.

Example, not saying to buy this, it is just what a google search brought it up. Amazon.com: KeeYees SOP8 SOIC8 Test Clip and CH341A USB Programmer Flash for Most of 24 25 Series EEPROM BIOS Chip with PDF Tutorial : Industrial & Scientific


----------



## bscool

@Geekounet Try putting 10th gen cpu back in and flash to older bios or newer bios. I see some said it worked and some said it didnt. Worth a try.


----------



## Geekounet

bscool said:


> It was in the link I posted, about the programmer.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.elmorlabs.com/forum/topic/spi-header-pinouts/
> 
> 
> 
> I have never done it so not sure.
> 
> Example, not saying to buy this, it is just what a google search brought it up. Amazon.com: KeeYees SOP8 SOIC8 Test Clip and CH341A USB Programmer Flash for Most of 24 25 Series EEPROM BIOS Chip with PDF Tutorial : Industrial & Scientific


Yeah i've seen them talking about that but as i didn't what it was then...


----------



## Geekounet

bscool said:


> It was in the link I posted, about the programmer.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.elmorlabs.com/forum/topic/spi-header-pinouts/
> 
> 
> 
> I have never done it so not sure.
> 
> Example, not saying to buy this, it is just what a google search brought it up. Amazon.com: KeeYees SOP8 SOIC8 Test Clip and CH341A USB Programmer Flash for Most of 24 25 Series EEPROM BIOS Chip with PDF Tutorial : Industrial & Scientific


What's the cheapest & effective solution that you think i can buy if the 10th gen cpu doesn't work?


----------



## bscool

Geekounet said:


> What's the cheapest & effective solution that you think i can buy if the 10th gen cpu doesn't work?


The chip reprogrammer.


----------



## bscool

@Geekounet It is not that the MB is dead it is a matter of reprograming the bios or I think it is actually the Intel Management Engine portion that gets messed up causing it not to boot. @Falkentyne knows more about it. Maybe he will comment on it.


----------



## bscool

@Geekounet https://www.elmorlabs.com/product/evc2sx/


----------



## Geekounet

bscool said:


> @Geekounet It is not that the MB is dead it is a matter of reprograming the bios or I think it is actually the Intel Management Engine portion that gets messed up causing it not to boot. @Falkentyne knows more about it. Maybe he will comment on it.


Yeah it's probably IME causing the issue, i need to do it myself btw, i don't think i can find someone who can do it for me here :/


----------



## bscool

Geekounet said:


> Yeah it's probably IME causing the issue, i need to do it myself btw, i don't think i can find someone who can do it for me here :/


I know nothing about it so I cant help. Just seen it talked about.


----------



## Geekounet

bscool said:


> I know nothing about it so I cant help. Just seen it talked about.


Thanks for trying to help, i need to find a 10th gen CPU, my friend has his one mounted on his gaming rig and i don't want to bother him with that, gonna try 10th gen & if it doesn't work gonna buy the EVC2SX...


----------



## TheHunter

tps3443 said:


> Ok, undervolting an 11700K is not ideal at all. The silicon is not as good as it’s 11900K counter parts. So, auto voltage is voltage the the silicon is requesting based on its quality. Rocket lake does just fine with light to medium loads at 1.500-1.600V. So don’t worry too much about this.
> 
> Also, if you type in a manual voltage the. The voltage will not lower down when the CPU is idle on the desktop.
> 
> 
> Also, even when you type a manual voltage it won’t go but so low, because it’s feeding the CPU the minimum it needs or requires.
> 
> Most 11900K’s need 1.250V to 1.275V for 4.8Ghz all cores. So an 11700K at 5.0Ghz with 1.315-1.325V is not terrible at all. It’s not gonna go much lower than that, if it’s even stable under AVX loads.


I see, thanks. I was thinking msi like others overvolt too much for no reason, this was with default turbo mode..so it doesn't then?
Or does that PL1 state override it too and raises further, because the mobo asked me what cooler and I selected water which makes it 4096w.


I just wanted it to behave like old 4770K, put in max turbo and max adaptive allowed voltage and be done, at balanced it would downclock and down volt. That one did 4.7ghz 1.284v and cache 4.2ghz 1.16v. Was quite good chip 

I now set all core to 50x, thinking it's just that. Or do I need that Turbo mode where it shows all cores and all at 50. Will it then act like the old days?


Also 1.30v in bios seems to be the limit for the quick tests like Cinebench15, 3dmark firestrike, timespy extreme cpu test, but in all these scenarios it used up to 200w, a bit high for 1.30v, cant imagine if I left it at default 1.47v.










and it still raised a little, I think becuase of AVX in this cpu profile test and by Timespy extreme AVX instructions?


speaking of adaptive voltage and default 1.47v. I set for example 1.35v in bios and it still read as 1.47v after boot in bios next to my manually input 1.35v, why does it ignore this?


When I manually undervolted this 1.47v it was ok up to -0.160 (so this 1.30v limit), but in idle I saw it as low as 0.56v I think?. And still saw some 1.5v spikes I think, or is this HWmonitor a bit wrong? it reported some of the cores with 0C "bug", but only for a brief second and only after I enabled extra c-states thinking that might help. Does speed shift help too and lower further or it has no effect if I set all core 50x? I know you said it's bad on 11700kf, but this batch I got x140k555 (e4) seems to be "better", I remember first reviewers couldnt even boot at 5ghz and or needed 1.45v+.


I also tested gear1 at those 5Ghz and anything but 3600mhz works, as soon as I change this to 3733mhz it fails; both SA and IO2 at 1.30v, for example first time I booted mobo auto set 1.40v for 3600mhz.. On cometlake (my old 10500) it set to 1.30 and IO 1.25v. I seem to be ok at 1.25v for both at default 3600mhz now, but I've set 1.30v atm to stabilize this beast.


The best latency I got at trfc 300 is ~ 46ns, down from 52ns default, do I need to tweak extra tfaw, twcl, trrd_L S,.. This gskill ram did cl17-19-19-40 4500mhz @ 1.47v, would that tweaked trfc 300 Gear2 benefit more or be somewhat the same + extra ram bandwidth? I play mostly Destiny2, and when I tweaked this trfc and whent from 3960 to 4237 (102.50mhz blck oc on 10500) I got a more responsive game with better min fps and more consistent fps. But it also lowered latency down to ~38.5ns there from 41ns.


I hope I didnt ask too much, would really appreciate your thoughts on my questions and ideas.


----------



## tps3443

TheHunter said:


> I see, thanks. I was thinking msi like others overvolt too much for no reason, this was with default turbo mode..so it doesn't then?
> Or does that PL1 state override it too and raises further, because the mobo asked me what cooler and I selected water which makes it 4096w.
> 
> 
> I just wanted it to behave like old 4770K, put in max turbo and max adaptive allowed voltage and be done, at balanced it would downclock and down volt. That one did 4.7ghz 1.284v and cache 4.2ghz 1.16v. Was quite good chip
> 
> I now set all core to 50x, thinking it's just that. Or do I need that Turbo mode where it shows all cores and all at 50. Will it then act like the old days?
> 
> 
> Also 1.30v in bios seems to be the limit for the quick tests like Cinebench15, 3dmark firestrike, timespy extreme cpu test, but in all these scenarios it used up to 200w, a bit high for 1.30v, cant imagine if I left it at default 1.47v.
> 
> View attachment 2539986
> 
> 
> and it still raised a little, I think becuase of AVX in this cpu profile test and by Timespy extreme AVX instructions?
> 
> 
> speaking of adaptive voltage and default 1.47v. I set for example 1.35v in bios and it still read as 1.47v after boot in bios next to my manually input 1.35v, why does it ignore this?
> 
> 
> When I manually undervolted this 1.47v it was ok up to -0.160 (so this 1.30v limit), but in idle I saw it as low as 0.56v I think?. And still saw some 1.5v spikes I think, or is this HWmonitor a bit wrong? it reported some of the cores with 0C "bug", but only for a brief second and only after I enabled extra c-states thinking that might help. Does speed shift help too and lower further or it has no effect if I set all core 50x? I know you said it's bad on 11700kf, but this batch I got x140k555 (e4) seems to be "better", I remember first reviewers couldnt even boot at 5ghz and or needed 1.45v+.
> 
> 
> I also tested gear1 at those 5Ghz and anything but 3600mhz works, as soon as I change this to 3733mhz it fails; both SA and IO2 at 1.30v, for example first time I booted mobo auto set 1.40v for 3600mhz.. On cometlake (my old 10500) it set to 1.30 and IO 1.25v. I seem to be ok at 1.25v for both at default 3600mhz now, but I've set 1.30v atm to stabilize this beast.
> 
> 
> The best latency I got at trfc 300 is ~ 46ns, down from 52ns default, do I need to tweak extra tfaw, twcl, trrd_L S,.. This gskill ram did cl17-19-19-40 4500mhz @ 1.47v, would that tweaked trfc 300 Gear2 benefit more or be somewhat the same + extra ram bandwidth? I play mostly Destiny2, and when I tweaked this trfc and whent from 3960 to 4237 (102.50mhz blck oc on 10500) I got a more responsive game with better min fps and more consistent fps. But it also lowered latency down to ~38.5ns there from 41ns.
> 
> 
> I hope I didnt ask too much, would really appreciate your thoughts on my questions and ideas.




Adaptive voltage may not work properly on a Z490 motherboard. But to answer your question, you can run low voltage to these chips. They just love high voltage. I have two 11900K’s, (With auto voltage) and 4.8Ghz all cores, one Cala for 1.275V and the other uses around 1.195-1.199V underload through R15/R23 type testing. I can run my newest 11900K at 5.3Ghz with 1.330V (It’s an incredibly good chip though) my other 11900K would need 1.465V and heavy load line just for 5.2Ghz. Just find the best balance In performance VS power for your 11700KF.

(Gear 1) memory at a slower speed with the lower latency, will always smash (Gear 2) in games. So, I’d be after gear (1) 3600 all day.

Also, try 1.500V on the VCCSA
and use up to 1.450V for VCCIO2 or VCCIO AUX (Whatever your bios calls it) these voltages would be required, especially for any memory speeds beyond 3600 (Gear 1) from what I understand the 11700K/KF does not have as good an IMC as 11900K models, but who knows, you could have a good IMC.


Chip variation is fairly large with 10th Gen, and 11th Gen CPU’s. Or just like any CPU really.

That 11700KF is not bad at all though. I would be after maximum overclock for (8) cores, and maximum clock speed for (4) cores, and maximum gear 1 memory speed. This will provide the absolute mind boggling gaming performance. Like, it really won’t get much better if any better from any platform in 2021/2022

I would personally just set a fixed static voltage, and not worry at all if it goes down during idle. Just stability test, and keep reducing the voltage until you can get it as low as possible for 5Ghz all cores, or 5.1Ghz all cores. You also want to run 3600-3733 (Gear 1) with really tight timings, and secondary timings. This will provide extremely fast performance.

Gear 2 may looks nice in a memory bandwidth benchmark. But, it doesn’t hold up for gaming.


See, properly tuned 11th Gen can absolutely smash in games. There is newer microcode, and bios update since launch. And well tuned 11th Gen is a absolute animal in gaming.

Also, I would highly recommend “Dual rank” memory sticks preferably 2x16GB= double sided ram.. It is much faster than 2x8GB.

2x16GB in Gear 1 at 3600 is plenty sufficient.


Also, make sure to overclock your ring/cache too. Rocketlake is pretty picky at 42-43 range depending on the CPU, I run 46 ring/cache daily, but that’s my chip, yours may be different. And, it cache/ring directly feeds off the CPU V-Core too. So, more cache/ring OC need more cpu Vcore voltage to keep it stable.

If your trying to post for maximum memory OC. I would set your VCCSA to 1.500V then set VCCIO2 to 1.400V. then I would apply 3600 Gear 1, then slowly bump the BCLK until it won’t post to the bios anymore. Then you’ll find the max gear 1 memory speed. Then back off a tad, or adjust timings for optimal latency and bandwidth. Test stability etc. etc.

If you have Samsung B-Die, I would go for 1.500-1.600V on the memory. Depending on how good your ram is.


I don’t go too crazy with stability testing, Rocketlake is very picky. if it’ll run through a lot of simple benchmarks and games, like R23, profile test, firestrike physics test, chances are it’s almost or already is stable. Now, memory is another thing. HCi memtest for about 4-6 hours should be good, and I call it stable.

No need to cook/hammer your CPU with prime 95 small fft’s. That is really degrading on a processor. If it’s stable, it’s stable lol. Meaning, it never crashes while using it for what you are doing daily.


----------



## Ketku-

Intel I9-10900K || Asus ROG Maximus XIII Extreme Glacial || G.Skill Trident Z Royal 32GB 4400MHz CL17

Ofcourse i have very EXTREME Custom Loop (2x XE480 1x CE420) So temps are not problem. Only dont know what volts are this new platform..

Asking few question.  What volts are max Z590: VCCIO, DRAM, VCSSA and VCORE with these system @ 24/7?
I know exactly how overclock Z490 Platform, but not this new Extreme Glacial Z590.

Z490 Apex was run volts max:
Dram 1.56v
Vccio 1.35v
Vccsa 1.40v
Vcore 1.375v

Thanks for answers. 

At moment running Linpack / TM5 Extreme stable: 
All Core 5.1GHz / Cache 4700MHz
V/F curve volt -0.060 offset LLC6
Dram 1.54v
Vccio 1.34v
Vccsa 1.4v (Stress 1.376v VCCSA LLC Auto (can change 1-3))

Cant tight any mem timings come Error in TM5 Extreme but Linpack goes NICE Resis.. What i do wrong?


----------



## TheHunter

tps3443 said:


> Adaptive voltage may not work properly on a Z490 motherboard. But to answer your question, you can run low voltage to these chips. They just love high voltage. I have two 11900K’s, (With auto voltage) and 4.8Ghz all cores, one Cala for 1.275V and the other uses around 1.195-1.199V underload through R15/R23 type testing. I can run my newest 11900K at 5.3Ghz with 1.330V (It’s an incredibly good chip though) my other 11900K would need 1.465V and heavy load line just for 5.2Ghz. Just find the best balance In performance VS power for your 11700KF.


Hi, thanks now I really got the hang of it 

I managed to use adaptive voltage with offset, -0.140v was on the edge, -0.130v is fully stable even in cinebench20, which makes cpu VID 1.34v..

So today I wanted to test lower offset again -0.140v and it Bsod watchdog in CB20 halfway trough, is this bsod usually a LLC issue? I was using LLC5, now LLC4 is fully stable, but I noticed more heat, tighter adv ram timings couldn't do that right?

Also yesterday I frist tested Gear2 4266Mhz CL16-16-16-36 @1.50v and compared to somewhat super tight Gear1 3600 CL14-14-14-34 1.45v, everything ran the same or better on 4266mhz.


But somehow I can't get lower latency on 3600mhz, 45ns was the best I could do. On Gear2 4266 the lowest I saw was 47.2ns, not as terrible as I first thought it would be, with extra bandwidth.

Gear1









Gear2















Although on Gear2 I can't pass 4266MHz. 4400 or 4600 both fail by boot, even at CL19 in all cases I used 1.50v. Maybe i used too little SA and IO2? I think I used up to SA 1.30V and IO2 1.40V.

atm using SA1.22V and IO2 1.35V for 4266 CL16, with slightly tweaked 2nd timings. IOL/RTL, Slew? and one more are all set to dynamic.

What would be optimal for 4400 or even 4600, or are these b-dies at limit? Can higher cache limits it as well? Im at 4300MHz atm, seen a few using only 4000 or even 3900MHz,

btw, what is this IA, LLC/ring voltage @ 1.198V? Is it cache voltage? I seen it go lower when I lowered offset more.









Thanks again


----------



## bscool

@TheHunter Highly unlikely you can get 2x16 4266+ stable in gear 2 on z490 Unify. Even 2 dim z590 boards 4400c17 will be doing good on DR b die gear2.

z490 MB are just not ideal for mem oc with 11th gen cpu. Can it work, yes. But you will never get # like those on z590 MB can. Latency and copy will always be worse on z490 v z590 using 11th gen.

No to discourage you ,just so you have realistic expectations if you compare your z490 unify # to z590 users yours will be behind by a bit when using 11th gen cpu.

With tuned subtiming/cache you should be able to get into low 40ns latency in gear 1 on the Unify with 11th gen. On z590 Hero as a comparison will be in 38ns range with similar subs and cahce speed.

Here is a screenshot I saved of a z590 Hero build I did from someone with XMP 3600c14-14-14

Most of your subtimings can be tightened quite a bit. Just some feedback as I ran z490 Unify with 10th and 11thgen cpu and did some mem ocing.

Also ppd on z490 unify is reversed. PPD1 lowers latency. Or it did back when I used 11th gen on it so try that. either way try both 1 and 0 and you will see which is better.


----------



## TheHunter

bscool said:


> @TheHunter Highly unlikely you can get 2x16 4266+ stable in gear 2 on z490 Unify. Even 2 dim z590 boards 4400c17 will be doing good on DR b die gear2.
> 
> z490 MB are just not ideal for mem oc with 11th gen cpu. Can it work, yes. But you will never get # like those on z590 MB can. Latency and copy will always be worse on z490 v z590 using 11th gen.
> 
> No to discourage you ,just so you have realistic expectations if you compare your z490 unify # to z590 users yours will be behind by a bit when using 11th gen cpu.
> 
> With tuned subtiming/cache you should be able to get into low 40ns latency in gear 1 on the Unify with 11th gen. On z590 Hero as a comparison will be in 38ns range with similar subs and cahce speed.
> 
> Here is a screenshot I saved of a z590 Hero build I did from someone with XMP 3600c14-14-14
> 
> Most of your subtimings can be tightened quite a bit. Just some feedback as I ran z490 Unify with 10th and 11thgen cpu and did some mem ocing.
> 
> Also ppd on z490 unify is reversed. PPD1 lowers latency. Or it did back when I used 11th gen on it so try that. either way try both 1 and 0 and you will see which is better.


HI,

It's a SR 2x8GB kit 3600 CL16-16-16-36

Gear2 at same timings so 4266mhz CL16-16-16-36 is giving me some really hard time, I tested it yesterday more and it became unstable, then I tested memtest64 to see what's up and to my surprise it started spitting errors.

I played with trfc a little and SA and IO2 and the more i tweaked the sooner it became unstable.

This is how it looks atm, I kept all at auto and just adjusted trfc and trefi









Was about to test with lower cache, atm its 43x, but then when I saw your post I said im going to test this PPD, auto was 1, now testing 0.

I also lowered both SA and IO2, someone else where on tomahawk z490 had more luck with lower volts then higher.

Memtest64 became unstable either in 1st loop or sometimes in 9th loop when I tweaked voltages a bit.. Most tests always mention older cpus so now Im kind of lost, some say low SA and IO, now with RL it should be more ok with higher..


So lowering cache to 42x or even 40x won't do much here? Im kinda ok with those 45-47ns latencies atm. Just wanted this thing stable at atleast 4266mhz, am I too optimistic with them CL16-16-16 @ 4266?

EDIT: PPD 0 is slower, went form 48 back to 52ns.


----------



## Groove2013

@TheHunter just forget about gear 2, since its latency is too high and FPS is lower because of this.

You need to enable Round Trip Latency for RAM, to improve RTL timings, because RTL 62 and 64 is too high for 3600 MHz.
I have 61 and 61 for 4000 MHz CL14 gear 1.

Also only 1.35 V SA is not much.
So this could be one of the reasons why you can't do more than 3600 MHz.
Setting SA to 1.45, 1.475 or 1.5 V is fine.

And also what is the exact model of your RAM?


----------



## TheHunter

EDIT:
what would be a "ideal" 2x16GB kit DR kit, is 4600-4800mhz even possible then with different e.g. Micron kit?



Groove2013 said:


> @TheHunter just forget about gear 2, since its latency is too high and FPS is lower because of this.
> 
> You need to enable Round Trip Latency for RAM, to improve RTL timings, because RTL 62 and 64 is too high for 3600 MHz.
> I have 61 and 61 for 4000 MHz CL14 gear 1.
> 
> Also only 1.35 V SA is not much.
> So this could be one of the reasons why you can't do more than 3600 MHz.
> Setting SA to 1.45, 1.475 or 1.5 V is fine.
> 
> And also what is the exact model of your RAM?


HI,

I would at least like to stabilize it without memory errors if nothing else. I can run 3600 CL14 no problem in games, but not 4266..

It's this ram



























EDIT: Im now at 3733MHZ, SA 1.40v did the trick, what about IO2 do i need to raise that more too? Atm its 1.30v.


----------



## Groove2013

@TheHunter 3600 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.35 V XMP is fine.

You can probably do 3866 MHz with SA close to 1.5 V or less.
1.4 V SA is not much.
1.35 IO is fine. But I think that (much) less than 1.35 V IO should be enough.


----------



## TheHunter

Groove2013 said:


> @TheHunter 3600 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.35 V XMP is fine.
> 
> You can probably do 3866 MHz with SA close to 1.5 V or less.
> 1.4 V SA is not much.
> 1.35 IO is fine. But I think that (much) less than 1.35 V IO should be enough.


Ok thanks,

I've tested more, SA up to 1.50v, IO2 up to 1.45v and nothing helped, guess Im stuck at max 3733Mhz, at least something.. At first I thought I could do only 3600.









About RTL, I set mobo to dynamic and it uses them so high, idk. In Gear2 they're more tight, both around 25-40.

Does it still apply that lower cpu/cache frequency helps by higher ram OC?
I have it now all core 5Ghz @ 1.33V and cache 4.3Ghz, and I didnt try anything else, only lowered cache back to 4Ghz to see if it might boot over 3800Mhz.. but no luck.

This is with somewhat tweaked settings, and I think final too., @bscool is latency ~43.5ns ok for a 3733Mhz?








5Ghz 1.33V vid, cache 4.3Ghz, noticed with 4Ghz cache vid drops to ~1.28V, might use that instead.
SA 1.40v
IO2 1.32v,


I can get another 2x8GB for later since they're SR and just keep 3733MHz @1.37v., but will it work ok in 4x8GB mode for interleave? Maybe even 4266 could be possible properly then?


----------



## marti69

loocking to buy a high sp 12900k (sp 103 or so) if someone is selling plz pm.


----------



## Groove2013

TheHunter said:


> Ok thanks,
> 
> I've tested more, SA up to 1.50v, IO2 up to 1.45v and nothing helped, guess Im stuck at max 3733Mhz, at least something.. At first I thought I could do only 3600.
> 
> View attachment 2540377
> 
> 
> About RTL, I set mobo to dynamic and it uses them so high, idk. In Gear2 they're more tight, both around 25-40.
> 
> Does it still apply that lower cpu/cache frequency helps by higher ram OC?
> I have it now all core 5Ghz @ 1.33V and cache 4.3Ghz, and I didnt try anything else, only lowered cache back to 4Ghz to see if it might boot over 3800Mhz.. but no luck.
> 
> This is with somewhat tweaked settings, and I think final too., @bscool is latency ~43.5ns ok for a 3733Mhz?
> 
> View attachment 2540428
> 
> 5Ghz 1.33V vid, cache 4.3Ghz, noticed with 4Ghz cache vid drops to ~1.28V, might use that instead.
> SA 1.40v
> IO2 1.32v,
> 
> 
> I can get another 2x8GB for later since they're SR and just keep 3733MHz @1.37v., but will it work ok in 4x8GB mode for interleave? Maybe even 4266 could be possible properly then?


Then 3733 MHz is the limit for you.
See by how much you can lower SA and IO for 3733 MHz.

Z490 boards have very very basic support for 11th gen - it just works, with relatively high latency (vs. Z590) and almost no BIOS updates with newer microcode and no BIOS finetuning for 11th gen.

Forget gear 2 and 4 sticks. Both are much worsе than gear 1 and 2 sticks.


----------



## satinghostrider

marti69 said:


> loocking to buy a high sp 12900k (sp 103 or so) if someone is selling plz pm.


@owikh84


----------



## owikh84

satinghostrider said:


> @owikh84


I only have SP91 (P-core SP98/ E-core SP78) for sale, SP scores based on BIOS 0707-0812 Z690-A D4.


Spoiler: Pictures


----------



## Tiny robot

Sup guys.
I have troubles with my CPU overclocking.

i7 11700K
Z590 Aorus Master
G.SKILL F4-4000C19D-16GTZKW

My 11700K can't pass OCCT AVX2 at these settings (screenshot) on any reasonable voltage. I've tried 5.0Ghz @ 1.45v (LLC 6) and 4.9Ghz all cores @ 1.4v (LLC 6). It will get error in 2-10 min.
Same happens in Prime95 during "Blend" test.
Even 4.8 Ghz @ 1.38v (LLC 6) will get error after ~3 hours.
CPU can sustain regular AVX load longer with same settings but will error anyway too.
OCCT gives no errors for ~20 min with AVX2 load @ 5.0Ghz and almost 1.5v (LLC 6) but I find this is too high anyway and stopped testing.
Is this means my sample so bad or I missing something?
P.S. no errors @ CPU stock settings (at least it will pass 8 hours test with any load).
P.S.S. forgot to mention Power limit is disabled in BIOS by default (4095W both).


----------



## tps3443

Tiny robot said:


> Sup guys.
> I have troubles with my CPU overclocking.
> 
> i7 11700K
> Z590 Aorus Master
> G.SKILL F4-4000C19D-16GTZKW
> 
> My 11700K can't pass OCCT AVX2 at these settings (screenshot) on any reasonable voltage. I've tried 5.0Ghz @ 1.45v (LLC 6) and 4.9Ghz all cores @ 1.4v (LLC 6). It will get error in 2-10 min.
> Same happens in Prime95 during "Blend" test.
> Even 4.8 Ghz @ 1.38v (LLC 6) will get error after ~3 hours.
> CPU can sustain regular AVX load longer with same settings but will error anyway too.
> OCCT gives no errors for ~20 min with AVX2 load @ 5.0Ghz and almost 1.5v (LLC 6) but I find this is too high anyway and stopped testing.
> Is this means my sample so bad or I missing something?
> P.S. no errors @ CPU stock settings (at least it will pass 8 hours test with any load).
> P.S.S. forgot to mention Power limit is disabled in BIOS by default (4095W both).
> 
> View attachment 2540488


This could just be your 11700K sample. These chips are an incredible value for the money, running them stock, or with a good Gear (1) optimized setup for daily work/gaming.

But there is a reason these chips are not 11900K’s.

I’m gonna say it’s probably your Silicon quality. That’s a very power hungry 11700K.


----------



## tps3443

This is [email protected] in bios. (5.4Ghz on all cores)

Load max VID is 1.423V per HWinfo.

265 watts through R20. This is such a good sample. I love this chip!

This is how all 11900K’s should be.


----------



## TheHunter

Ok I tweaked some more and this is my best latency so far.
SA 1.375v
IO2 1.27v
ram 1.41v

Can I lower it further? I also noticed at these timings it heats more , but Im not sure what part?









and what timing would be to improve Write speeds? Because this 3600 CL14 try had better write speeds, but with worse timings









I could run tTRDWR's at 10, but then I tweaked one more timing and whole thing broke down, had to build it up again for that 3733mhz oc (lol cost me 2hrs).

what about tRRD's and tWTR's are they ok by 3733mhz? and tCKE could it be lower with such timings or what is the lowest safe, 5?


----------



## Togaidragon

Hey guys I was suggested this thread for trying to figure out which memory OC to use. I read above that I should stick to gear 1 so I have an example of gear 1 3733c14 and gear 2 4400c19
What do you guys think?


----------



## Togaidragon

Also I have no idea why my RTL gets so low with 4400 but with 3733 its almost 20 higher. I would think it should work the other way around no? I have RTL training enabled


----------



## Arni90

Togaidragon said:


> Also I have no idea why my RTL gets so low with 4400 but with 3733 its almost 20 higher. I would think it should work the other way around no? I have RTL training enabled


Because RTL is a measure of clock cycles for the integrated memory controller, at 3733 you're probably in gear 1, while 4400 is definitely gear 2-territory. In gear 2, the integrated memory controller runs at half frequency.


----------



## Togaidragon

Arni90 said:


> Because RTL is a measure of clock cycles for the integrated memory controller, at 3733 you're probably in gear 1, while 4400 is definitely gear 2-territory. In gear 2, the integrated memory controller runs at half frequency.


ah okay interesting thanks


----------



## JKurz

Nice!


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Adaptive voltage may not work properly on a Z490 motherboard. But to answer your question, you can run low voltage to these chips. They just love high voltage. I have two 11900K’s, (With auto voltage) and 4.8Ghz all cores, one Cala for 1.275V and the other uses around 1.195-1.199V underload through R15/R23 type testing. I can run my newest 11900K at 5.3Ghz with 1.330V (It’s an incredibly good chip though) my other 11900K would need 1.465V and heavy load line just for 5.2Ghz. Just find the best balance In performance VS power for your 11700KF.
> 
> (Gear 1) memory at a slower speed with the lower latency, will always smash (Gear 2) in games. So, I’d be after gear (1) 3600 all day.
> 
> Also, try 1.500V on the VCCSA
> and use up to 1.450V for VCCIO2 or VCCIO AUX (Whatever your bios calls it) these voltages would be required, especially for any memory speeds beyond 3600 (Gear 1) from what I understand the 11700K/KF does not have as good an IMC as 11900K models, but who knows, you could have a good IMC.
> 
> 
> Chip variation is fairly large with 10th Gen, and 11th Gen CPU’s. Or just like any CPU really.
> 
> That 11700KF is not bad at all though. I would be after maximum overclock for (8) cores, and maximum clock speed for (4) cores, and maximum gear 1 memory speed. This will provide the absolute mind boggling gaming performance. Like, it really won’t get much better if any better from any platform in 2021/2022
> 
> I would personally just set a fixed static voltage, and not worry at all if it goes down during idle. Just stability test, and keep reducing the voltage until you can get it as low as possible for 5Ghz all cores, or 5.1Ghz all cores. You also want to run 3600-3733 (Gear 1) with really tight timings, and secondary timings. This will provide extremely fast performance.
> 
> Gear 2 may looks nice in a memory bandwidth benchmark. But, it doesn’t hold up for gaming.
> 
> 
> See, properly tuned 11th Gen can absolutely smash in games. There is newer microcode, and bios update since launch. And well tuned 11th Gen is a absolute animal in gaming.
> 
> Also, I would highly recommend “Dual rank” memory sticks preferably 2x16GB= double sided ram.. It is much faster than 2x8GB.
> 
> 2x16GB in Gear 1 at 3600 is plenty sufficient.
> 
> 
> Also, make sure to overclock your ring/cache too. Rocketlake is pretty picky at 42-43 range depending on the CPU, I run 46 ring/cache daily, but that’s my chip, yours may be different. And, it cache/ring directly feeds off the CPU V-Core too. So, more cache/ring OC need more cpu Vcore voltage to keep it stable.
> 
> If your trying to post for maximum memory OC. I would set your VCCSA to 1.500V then set VCCIO2 to 1.400V. then I would apply 3600 Gear 1, then slowly bump the BCLK until it won’t post to the bios anymore. Then you’ll find the max gear 1 memory speed. Then back off a tad, or adjust timings for optimal latency and bandwidth. Test stability etc. etc.
> 
> If you have Samsung B-Die, I would go for 1.500-1.600V on the memory. Depending on how good your ram is.
> 
> 
> I don’t go too crazy with stability testing, Rocketlake is very picky. if it’ll run through a lot of simple benchmarks and games, like R23, profile test, firestrike physics test, chances are it’s almost or already is stable. Now, memory is another thing. HCi memtest for about 4-6 hours should be good, and I call it stable.
> 
> No need to cook/hammer your CPU with prime 95 small fft’s. That is really degrading on a processor. If it’s stable, it’s stable lol. Meaning, it never crashes while using it for what you are doing daily.


This post is amazing info! Using your strategy starting at 3733 gear 1 and increasing bclk I am now at 4000c14 gear 1 and bclk up to 108.

One question though. Once I have found that max speed using bclk should I go back to 100 bclk and just choose the memory frequency I found from there or keep the bclk overclock?


----------



## Togaidragon

Thanks to tps3443 these are my new speeds, finally under 40ns!


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Thanks to tps3443 these are my new speeds, finally under 40ns!
> 
> View attachment 2540659



Try these instead. It’ll perform far better.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Try these instead. It’ll perform far better.
> View attachment 2540663


Okay I did crash after 20 minutes in d2 resurrected(my stress test lol) so I upped dram to 1.6 and SA from 1.4 to 1.5 and then copied all of those timings. For some reason whatever I enter in tWTR_L and tWTR_S the timing config adds +2 in the display. So I put 1 in wtr_s and it came out to 3 in the config. Aida64 shows pretty much the same stats but I'll see if it's more stable in my stress test


----------



## Togaidragon

Oh yeah also I have a tWTR option above the tWTR_L and S, do I just leave that on auto?


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Oh yeah also I have a tWTR option above the tWTR_L and S, do I just leave that on auto?


You should see much better performance than before. This is my system with these timings.


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Oh yeah also I have a tWTR option above the tWTR_L and S, do I just leave that on auto?




I run 1.670V on my Corsair dominator Platinums. They are 2x16GB 3600CL14 modules. if your crashing just double check everything. Hopefully you can stabilize it.

1.5 VCCSA is fine for daily. And 1.35 VCCIO AUX is sufficient too.


I can run 1.400 VCCSA, and 1.250 VCCIO AUX. However, with slightly worse RTL’s.

So, I run 1.500/1.350 daily. With 4000 Gear 1.

You’ve gotten lucky with a good IMC congratulations! Not many 11900K’s can do 4000 Gear 1.


How are the CPU cores on your 11900K?


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> I run 1.670V on my Corsair dominator Platinums. They are 2x16GB 3600CL14 modules. if your crashing just double check everything. Hopefully you can stabilize it.
> 
> 1.5 VCCSA is fine for daily. And 1.35 VCCIO AUX is sufficient too.
> 
> 
> I can run 1.400 VCCSA, and 1.250 VCCIO AUX. However, with slightly worse RTL’s.
> 
> So, I run 1.500/1.350 daily. With 4000 Gear 1.
> 
> You’ve gotten lucky with a good IMC congratulations! Not many 11900K’s can do 4000 Gear 1.
> 
> 
> How are the CPU cores on your 11900K?


It seems stable now =) I finally feel like im getting my moneys worth out of these. They are the 4400c16 modules tridentz royal. I spent quite a bit on them and was frustrated for months that I couldnt get XPM stable. Now that ive learned gear 1 is better anyway and I can get 4000c14 I'm very happy =)
I'm at 1.55 Dram now because 1.6 I was getting into mid 40's and still slowly climbing. If it does crash ill bring it back up and see where it stabalizes
That's funny I didn't know that about the 11900k. My SP rating is 50 hahaha and the strong cores are on the bottom so I thought I had a bad chip. I'm just running AI optimized for my CPU OC. I don't really understand it TBH. Each core will boost to 5.3 individually but when I'm playing D2 they will all go to 4.9. I'm using adaptive voltage 1.45 and HWMonitor shows it getting up to 1.6 max in vcore


----------



## bscool

"Seems stable" means no testing and not stable.............4000c14 with 4x8. slim to no chance of passing any real memtest or stress tests.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> "Seems stable" means no testing and not stable.............4000c14 with 4x8. slim to no chance of passing any real memtest or stress tests.


Yeah I dont particularly care about passing memtest or stress tests. As long as it doesn't crash in what in using it for(mostly gaming) than I'm happy


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Yeah I dont particularly care about passing memtest or stress tests. As long as it doesn't crash in what in using it for(mostly gaming) than I'm happy


Corrupted os and games here we come.


----------



## Togaidragon

Possibly so. But I don't mind repairing if doesn't happen a lot. Repairing a game takes 5 minutes. I suppose a Corrupted OS could be a bigger problem but I do have a USB with windows so as long as it doesn't brick somehow lol. I'm running a test right now and my memory is already getting hotter than it does for normal use. Won't that throw errors at some point? So I could have a gaming stable system but not be able to pass extreme1 test


----------



## Togaidragon

I mean I suppose I could always pull 2 sticks out and that would increase likelihood of stability. I just don't like seeing 60-70% of memory usage. I dont know why it just makes me feel uncomfortable lol


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> I mean I suppose I could always pull 2 sticks out and that would increase likelihood of stability. I just don't like seeing 60-70% of memory usage. I dont know why it just makes me feel uncomfortable lol


Try increasing your RTL’s. to 63/63/63/63. That should help your stability. I run 61/61/61/61. But, I am running just 2x16GB, on a motherboard with only 2 dimm slots.

I imagine any stability issues your having is your memory that physically can’t do 4000CL14 regardless how good your IMC is.


4x8GB that can truly run 4000CL15 stable is like a $400-$500 set of memory.

I had a matched set of G.Skill Royal Z 4x8GB 4000CL15 @1.5V. This memory was CL15-16-16-36 XMP, and it was G.Skills best/fastest quad channel memory set available just last year. This memory could do like 5200Mhz CL17-18-18-30 with just 2x8GB of it used. (It was some really good Samsung B-Die)

You will probably have to relax your main timings, increase RTL’s. Or get a 2x16GB set of better memory.

Your IMC is looking good so far, 2x16GB would be recommended. Or maybe just try 4000 CL15-16-16-30.


Also, dual rank memory or double sided memory performs like a beast! Slower speed and timings 2x16GB is faster than faster speed tighter timing 2x8GB. 4x8GB is tricky. And it’s gonna take some super good memory to truly stabilize 4000CL14 With 4x8GB.

l


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Try increasing your RTL’s. to 63/63/63/63. That should help your stability. I run 61/61/61/61. But, I am running just 2x16GB, on a motherboard with only 2 dimm slots.
> 
> I imagine any stability issues your having is your memory that physically can’t do 4000CL14 regardless how good your IMC is.
> 
> 
> 4x8GB that can truly run 4000CL15 stable is like a $400-$500 set of memory.
> 
> I had a matched set of G.Skill Royal Z 4x8GB 4000CL15 @1.5V. This memory was CL15-16-16-36 XMP, and it was G.Skills best/fastest quad channel memory set available just last year. This memory could do like 5200Mhz CL17-18-18-30 with just 2x8GB of it used. (It was some really good Samsung B-Die)
> 
> You will probably have to relax your main timings, increase RTL’s. Or get a 2x16GB set of better memory.
> 
> Your IMC is looking good so far, 2x16GB would be recommended. Or maybe just try 4000 CL15-16-16-30.


Roger that. I'm at 30 minutes extreme1 temps have stabilized at 48.5 on the hottest stick. When it fails I'll loosen the timings. The thing that sucks with these boards is that the qvl is so limited. I know its not all inclusive but I'd still like to get something on the qvl which is basically impossible at this point. Plus I live in an area where nobody is going to buy this ram  oh well

Got my first error at 40 minutes bleh


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Roger that. I'm at 30 minutes extreme1 temps have stabilized at 48.5 on the hottest stick. When it fails I'll loosen the timings. The thing that sucks with these boards is that the qvl is so limited. I know its not all inclusive but I'd still like to get something on the qvl which is basically impossible at this point. Plus I live in an area where nobody is going to buy this ram  oh well
> 
> Got my first error at 40 minutes bleh



Yeah that’s hot for memory. You’d never get through any long/extended memory stability testing with temps like that.

Also, enable TVB voltage optimization. And enable C-states In the bios. This helps with reducing CPU voltage a lot.

As for memory, I will make a recommendation.

Corsair sales the 2x16GB Dominator Platinum DDR4 3600CL14 for about $239.99 or so directly from Corsair website. They have sales and promo’s sometimes, and I got mine for $203 shipped. They may have a new years promotion.


I send close to 1.7V to these dual rank B-Die sticks, and they’re always below 40C even under extended 6-8 hour HCI memtest stability testing. There cooling/heat spreader design of the Corsair Dominator Platinums is truly incredible. Super amazing B-Die.

See, DDR4 is very picky over 40C. Especially 45C+ the likely hood of spitting out errors is pretty common at those temps.


This is recommended for a 11900K with a good IMC as your chip.



https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB/p/CMT32GX4M2Z3600C14


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Yeah that’s hot for memory. You’d never get through any long/extended memory stability testing with temps like that.
> 
> Also, enable TVB voltage optimization. And enable C-states In the bios. This helps with reducing CPU voltage a lot.
> 
> As for memory, I will make a recommendation.
> 
> Corsair sales the 2x16GB Dominator Platinum DDR4 3600CL14 for about $239.99 or so directly from Corsair website. They have sales and promo’s sometimes, and I got mine for $203 shipped. They may have a new years promotion.
> 
> 
> I send close to 1.7V to these dual rank B-Die sticks, and they’re always below 40C even under extended 6-8 hour HCI memtest stability testing. There cooling/heat spreader design of the Corsair Dominator Platinums is truly incredible. Super amazing B-Die.
> 
> See, DDR4 is very picky over 40C. Especially 45C+ the likely hood of spitting out errors is pretty common at those temps.
> 
> 
> This is recommended for a 11900K with a good IMC as your chip.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/DOMINATOR-PLATINUM-RGB/p/CMT32GX4M2Z3600C14


Okay cool I'll definitely keep an eye out for those sticks to go on sale. I loosened the timings and put dram voltage down to 1.5 going to run another test. Also tvb and cstates enabled


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Roger that. I'm at 30 minutes extreme1 temps have stabilized at 48.5 on the hottest stick. When it fails I'll loosen the timings. The thing that sucks with these boards is that the qvl is so limited. I know its not all inclusive but I'd still like to get something on the qvl which is basically impossible at this point. Plus I live in an area where nobody is going to buy this ram  oh well
> 
> Got my first error at 40 minutes bleh


That is impressive if you are at 4000c14-14-14 like in your screenshots. CRAZY good. for 4x8.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> That is impressive if you are at 4000c14-14-14 like in your screenshots. CRAZY good. for 4x8.


Still failed at the 40 min mark though lol 
I loosened timings to 15/16/16/30 and it failed at 7 min. I just said screw it and went back to c14. If it does corrupt all my stuff I'll deal with it and then just go to much looser timings but I'm going to chance it for now. I have to put dram at 1.55 though to even post. At 1.5 I get sent to windows repair screen lol. In d2r my temps get up to 45

I'm not at 14-14-14 anymore now I'm at 14/15/15/30


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Still failed at the 40 min mark though lol
> I loosened timings to 15/16/16/30 and it failed at 7 min. I just said screw it and went back to c14. If it does corrupt all my stuff I'll deal with it and then just go to much looser timings but I'm going to chance it for now. I have to put dram at 1.55 though to even post. At 1.5 I get sent to windows repair screen lol. In d2r my temps get up to 45
> 
> I'm not at 14-14-14 anymore now I'm at 14/15/15/30


Have you tried to see if the CPU overclocks any good at all?


Anyways, two sticks is recommended. I only ran 4x8GB previously, because I was run X299 Dark and quad channel a while back. Aside from that, two sticks, two channels.


Kind of like a car, if it’s FWD or 2WD you really only need two wheels.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Have you tried to see if the CPU overclocks any good at all?


No I pretty much left it on ai optimized since the SP score was so low and the "strong" cores are at the bottom. I was pretty sure it was a bad chip


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> No I pretty much left it on ai optimized since the SP score was so low and the "strong" cores are at the bottom. I was pretty sure it was a bad chip


Low SP doesn’t mean it’s bad. Your cores could still be good and stabilize AVX 5.3Ghz.

I have two 11900K’s 

One does 3882Mhz CL14 (Gear 1)
[email protected] (All cores)
[email protected] (All cores)

One does 4,000 CL14 (Gear 1)
[email protected] (All cores)
[email protected] (All cores)


I’m not sure of the SP ratings at all. But, I know 11th Gen shows a lower SP rating than 10Th Gen across the board. And it also uses more voltage then 10th Gen. If you enable Intel AIBT for 5.1Ghz all cores some chips naturally send tons of voltage.

Set 4.8Ghz all cores and run either R15/R20/R23 with HWinfo up, and see what VID is applied on the cores and how much power consumption is used. This will give us an idea.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Low SP doesn’t mean it’s bad. Your cores could still be good and stabilize AVX 5.3Ghz.
> 
> I have two 11900K’s
> 
> One does 3882Mhz CL14 (Gear 1)
> [email protected] (All cores)
> [email protected] (All cores)
> 
> One does 4,000 CL14 (Gear 1)
> [email protected] (All cores)
> [email protected] (All cores)
> 
> 
> I’m not sure of the SP ratings at all. But, I know 11th Gen shows a lower SP rating than 10Th Gen across the board. And it also uses more voltage then 10th Gen. If you enable Intel AIBT for 5.1Ghz all cores some chips naturally send tons of voltage.
> 
> Set 4.8Ghz all cores and run either R15/R20/R23 with HWinfo up, and see what VID is applied on the cores and how much power consumption is used. This will give us an idea.


Okay should I have voltage set to auto for that?


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Okay should I have voltage set to auto for that?


Yes, do a full bios reset. Memory reset to default, 2133 or 2666. just a full reset base line running stock. We merely want to see default cpu voltage, and power consumption.


If you have C states on, it’ll boost to 5.3Ghz on idle/light loads. But you just want to see the “Load voltage that 4.8Ghz applies during a Cinebench run”


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Yes, do a full bios reset. Memory reset to default, 2133 or 2666. just a full reset base line running stock. We merely want to see default cpu voltage, and power consumption.
> 
> 
> If you have C states on, it’ll boost to 5.3Ghz on idle/light loads. But you just want to see the “Load voltage that 4.8Ghz applies during a Cinebench run”


Okay I reset everything to default and set sync all cores to 4.8 and vid# is 1.3 while running r23 and it's at 194w


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Okay I reset everything to default and set sync all cores to 4.8 and vid# is 1.3 while running r23 and it's at 194w


Ok, well to be honest that is not very good. But, it could scale good past 4.8Ghz and have good cores that can stabilize 5.2-5.3 or higher under AVX or non AVX loads.

Try a fixed override voltage 5.2Ghz with 1.450V-1.475 fixed, with some medium to heavy load line calibration. If that’s too hot, then go for 5.1Ghz all cores with (4) cores running 5.3Ghz with. I would also advise the cache and ring directly feed off of VCore voltage. So, for example you may stabilize [email protected] 1.475V, with 41 Ring/Cache. But that same config may crash with 43-45 cache/ring.


Ideally you want 43-44 ring/cache minimum for best performance. But 41-42 is acceptable too. Faster ring cache directly affects your memory latency drastically.

So, I’m thinking 5.1-5.2Ghz all cores is ideal. With a 43 cache OC. And 4000Mhz Gear 1. This will provide really good performance. (Realistically as good as it gets) for the most part anyways.



Use R23 as a quick stability test just to get in the ball park range of what voltage/LLC works, . And if it passes R23 at any given time, the CPU overclock will be more than likely close enough stable in practically any game.

R23 is stressful, and 10 minutes long. You can move up to RealBench or P95 blend after if you wish.


I’d recommend a -1 AVX2 offset, and a -2 AVX 512 offset depending on your cooling. 

Also, load-line calibration is EVERYTHING for stability. It makes all the difference. You can usually stabilize these with less voltage and a lot of load line, VS more voltage and less loadline.

But these 11900K’s are all drastically different between samples. I had one that loved bclk overclocking. And another one that didn’t care for it at all. You just gotta find what makes yours tick lol.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Ok, well to be honest that is not very good. But, it could scale good past 4.8Ghz and have good cores that can stabilize 5.2-5.3 or higher under AVX or non AVX loads.
> 
> Try a fixed override voltage 5.2Ghz with 1.450V-1.475 fixed, with some medium to heavy load line calibration. If that’s too hot, then go for 5.1Ghz all cores with (4) cores running 5.3Ghz with. I would also advise the cache and ring directly feed off of VCore voltage. So, for example you may stabilize [email protected] 1.475V, with 41 Ring/Cache. But that same config may crash with 43-45 cache/ring.
> 
> 
> Ideally you want 43-44 ring/cache minimum for best performance. But 41-42 is acceptable too. Faster ring cache directly affects your memory latency drastically.
> 
> So, I’m thinking 5.1-5.2Ghz all cores is ideal. With a 43 cache OC. And 4000Mhz Gear 1. This will provide really good performance. (Realistically as good as it gets) for the most part anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> Use R23 as a quick stability test just to get in the ball park range of what voltage/LLC works, . And if it passes R23 at any given time, the CPU overclock will be more than likely close enough stable in practically any game.
> 
> R23 is stressful, and 10 minutes long. You can move up to RealBench or P95 blend after if you wish.
> 
> 
> I’d recommend a -1 AVX2 offset, and a -2 AVX 512 offset depending on your cooling.
> 
> Also, load-line calibration is EVERYTHING for stability. It makes all the difference. You can usually stabilize these with less voltage and a lot of load line, VS more voltage and less loadline.
> 
> But these 11900K’s are all drastically different between samples. I had one that loved bclk overclocking. And another one that didn’t care for it at all. You just gotta find what makes yours tick lol.


Okay I put everything back to how it was before and it's 4.9 @ 1.36 during r23. Oh yeah and 230w hah.. When not doing r23 each core will boost to 5.3 and it looks like they go to 1.63voltage when they do that. Hottest core got up to 76 during the test. Should I even be allowing these cores to get that high or am I destroying them? Lol. I'll definitely look into modifying my cpu, right now I don't understand the load line stuff etc. It did just finish r23 though so at least it didn't crash or anything


----------



## Togaidragon

Interesting so I have it set to 5.1 all core and 1.475 fixed and during r23 they are at 1.43. Also pulling 267w now hahaha yikes already hitting 82 degrees on one core though


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Okay I put everything back to how it was before and it's 4.9 @ 1.36 during r23. Oh yeah and 230w hah.. When not doing r23 each core will boost to 5.3 and it looks like they go to 1.63voltage when they do that. Hottest core got up to 76 during the test. Should I even be allowing these cores to get that high or am I destroying them? Lol. I'll definitely look into modifying my cpu, right now I don't understand the load line stuff etc. It did just finish r23 though so at least it didn't crash or anything


So, under heavy loads staying under 80C is great. These chips will be just fine. They are temp sensitive. It sounds like you got a good IMC, and subpar cores. But it still passed as an 11900K qualification. So, your cores are not that bad.

My newest 11900K is a freak, It can do 5.3Ghz at 228 watts. And 5.4Ghz at 265 watts. (All cores)

Did you just buy this CPU? Using it for gaming?


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> So, under heavy loads staying under 80C is great. These chips will be just fine. They are temp sensitive. It sounds like you got a good IMC, and subpar cores. But it still passed as an 11900K qualification. So, your cores are not that bad.
> 
> My newest 11900K is a freak, It can do 5.3Ghz at 228 watts. And 5.4Ghz at 265 watts. (All cores)
> 
> Did you just buy this CPU? Using it for gaming?


Damn nice! Yeah I bought it about a month ago. I had someone I know go to microcenter and get it for 400 and ship it to me. Right now I'm using it for gaming and later this year I'll be transferring from a jc to a university for computer science so I'll get more use out of it in the near future...still not sure what field I want to go into though.


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Damn nice! Yeah I bought it about a month ago. I had someone I know go to microcenter and get it for 400 and ship it to me. Right now I'm using it for gaming and later this year I'll be transferring from a jc to a university for computer science so I'll get more use out of it in the near future...still not sure what field I want to go into though.


Yeah it’s a great CPU. You’ve got lucky with a good IMC from the looks of it, probably 1 in 10 11900K’s can do 4000 Gear 1. Chances are slim finding one that can do that.

So, 4000Mhz Gear 1 even with the CPU stock is gonna work out great for gaming and applications. Memory and low latency seems to help a lot.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Yeah it’s a great CPU. You’ve got lucky with a good IMC from the looks of it, probably 1 in 10 11900K’s can do 4000 Gear 1. Chances are slim finding one that can do that.
> 
> So, 4000Mhz Gear 1 even with the CPU stock is gonna work out great for gaming and applications. Memory and low latency seems to help a lot.


Yeah im super happy about that. Definitely made a lot of progress with the build today. 4000 gear 1 and now 5.1 all core instead of 4.9  thanks for your help man couldn't have done it without you


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Yeah im super happy about that. Definitely made a lot of progress with the build today. 4000 gear 1 and now 5.1 all core instead of 4.9  thanks for your help man couldn't have done it without you


I have merely learned by playing with my own 11900K’s. And getting advice from other members here like @bscool and a few other who are really good as well.

At 5.1Ghz it should outpace a stock (10/20) 10900K in multithreaded, and offer substantially faster single threaded performance in games.


----------



## tps3443

I ran the Intel performance Maximizer software on my 11900K. This app is installed on its own partition. it doesn’t run in the background, no heavy wasted resources. 

I was just curious. So I tried it out. The test took about an hour to run. It runs just after your PC posts, before launching windows. 

It overclocked my CPU by +600Mhz.

4.8Ghz to 5.4Ghz.


----------



## murenitu

tps3443 said:


> I ran the Intel performance Maximizer software on my 11900K. This app is installed on its own partition. it doesn’t run in the background, no heavy wasted resources.
> 
> I was just curious. So I tried it out. The test took about an hour to run. It runs just after your PC posts, before launching windows.
> 
> It overclocked my CPU by +600Mhz.
> 
> 4.8Ghz to 5.4Ghz.
> 
> View attachment 2540785


Really suspicious!


----------



## murenitu

I post some photos of my settings, even today it continues to adjust the memory

remember that they are 4x8 32gb Gskill B.die, with an Asus formula xII

It's not the best combination, I know, but ... it's what I have.


----------



## tps3443

murenitu said:


> Really suspicious!


Hey, I posted that as more or so a joke. I am kinda shocked it even pushed the CPU to that level. I thought it was funny.

But, its really just an incredible sample at the end of the day. one of the fastest few 11900K’s on ambient water in the world. (Not kidding) it sits in the HOF Top 100 Profile test.

Suspicious or not. It’s very much a real test and result. 

It was trying for 5.6Ghz during the test. I thought it’d do better.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> I ran the Intel performance Maximizer software on my 11900K. This app is installed on its own partition. it doesn’t run in the background, no heavy wasted resources.
> 
> I was just curious. So I tried it out. The test took about an hour to run. It runs just after your PC posts, before launching windows.
> 
> It overclocked my CPU by +600Mhz.
> 
> 4.8Ghz to 5.4Ghz.
> 
> View attachment 2540785


does it make automatic changes in bios? that's pretty interesting. I tried to use the asus optimizer at one point and it seemed pretty crap


----------



## Geekounet

LOL for me


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> does it make automatic changes in bios? that's pretty interesting. I tried to use the asus optimizer at one point and it seemed pretty crap


It doesn’t change anything in the bios. 

Reset your bios, configure your memory overclock and timings. Leave voltage on Auto, and run the test. 

The install size for the Intel performance Maximizer is like 7GB+ 

You’ve gotta download the two files for your correct CPU, and install it. Once you run the scanner it does it outside of windows. And it test rigorously.


I was just curious, and wanted to try it out. I already knew what my cpu can do. Just surprised to see Intel agrees with me.


----------



## tps3443

Geekounet said:


> LOL for me
> 
> View attachment 2540904


Whoa now! Way to go extreme.

Hey, It’s still an incredible cpu. 11700K is much more affordable option especially for gaming. I saw Der8auer was selling tray 11700K for $279 which is insane if you think about the performance levels.

Bone stock 11900K does great at stock 4.8 with optimized Gear 1 memory. So no worries there.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Hey, I posted that as more or so a joke. I am kinda shocked it even pushed the CPU to that level. I thought it was funny.
> 
> But, its really just an incredible sample at the end of the day. one of the fastest few 11900K’s on ambient water in the world. (Not kidding) it sits in the HOF Top 100 Profile test.
> 
> Suspicious or not. It’s very much a real test and result.
> 
> It was trying for 5.6Ghz during the test. I thought it’d do better.


I'm curious, if you or someone else was going to sell a chip that is that good how much would they go for? Like 1k+?


----------



## Togaidragon

LOL hahaha


----------



## Togaidragon

So weird, after I reset my memory back to the timings from before I forgot to change all my voltages back so they were left on auto. Dram 1.5, memvccio 1.5, SA 1.4...and it actually is posting...where before if I would set dram to 1.5 it was booting into recovery and getting a lot of crashes

Eh just crashed nvm lol


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> I'm curious, if you or someone else was going to sell a chip that is that good how much would they go for? Like 1k+?


I would say probably $650-$800+ bucks for a really good sample. People certainly still buy high quality 10th Gen and 11th Gen chips because they are fast in games, and can be ran in certain laptops with LGA 1200 sockets. The better the bin, the less heat and power it’ll produce.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Togaidragon said:


> I'm curious, if you or someone else was going to sell a chip that is that good how much would they go for? Like 1k+?


I have an equivalent 11900K if you want to make an offer. It can do 5.4ghz at 1.42v (bios) and 4000 14-15-15 200% HCI memtest stable and it’s not delidded.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> I would say probably $650-$800+ bucks for a really good sample. People certainly still buy high quality 10th Gen and 11th Gen chips because they are fast in games, and can be ran in certain laptops with LGA 1200 sockets. The better the bin, the less heat and power it’ll produce.


Interesting that's pretty cool



geriatricpollywog said:


> I have an equivalent 11900K if you want to make an offer. It can do 5.4ghz at 1.42v (bios) and 4000 14-15-15 200% HCI memtest stable and it’s not delidded.


Oh no I don't have the money for it right now I was just curious how the bin relates to price. I will keep it in mind though moving forward =)


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Togaidragon said:


> Interesting that's pretty cool
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no I don't have the money for it right now I was just curious how the bin relates to price. I will keep it in mind though moving forward =)


I would think $400 is a better price for a good 11900K bin considering you can get a 12700K for less than that at Microcenter.


----------



## tps3443

geriatricpollywog said:


> I would think $400 is a better price for a good 11900K bin considering you can get a 12700K for less than that at Microcenter.


Yeah, I’m not selling mine personally. I’ll probably ride out on it for a while, may grab a 12900KS. I think the 12th Gen is a great value personally though

But, we know it’s easier to just buy a $400 dollar CPU and directly drop it in an existing Z490/Z590 setup and we are off to the races.

With 12th Gen, someone would have to purchase a new motherboard, memory, and an adapter for their cooler. Depending on components selected this would be a more expensive option. We’d lose to the 12700K in heavy multithreaded loads.



GREAT DEAL THOUGH!!


----------



## Togaidragon

geriatricpollywog said:


> I would think $400 is a better price for a good 11900K bin considering you can get a 12700K for less than that at Microcenter.


That's not too bad! 
I know the 12 series has better cores but I don't really like ddr5 at the moment since the latency is so freaking high, and i've heard that the ddr4 boards kind of suck(granted still early)
I think I'm going to stick with 11 series for a while. Excited to see how meteor lake looks


----------



## murenitu

Stock and memory 3733 z490!


----------



## Mnemonic

i heard intel is disabling avx-512 for alder lake via a microcode update, so yeah, 12th Gen suddenly looks a lot less interesting. It wasn't interesting in the first place since big/little has no place on desktop systems in my opinion. That crap is for mobile platforms and they can keep it there.
Rocket lake is the most interesting for now. even when al the fanboys tore it down because they didn't get the MOAR they expected.


----------



## Ketku-

I was able get kit here @ Finland: *F4-4000C14D-32GTES* / *G.Skill Trident Z Royal Elite Silver 32GB (2x 16GB) 4000MHz CL14-15-15-35 1.55V*

Current kit is: *F4-4400C17D-32GTRS* / *G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver 32GB (2x16GB) 4400MHz CL17-18-18-38 1.5V*

Is there any benefit to this uprage as to be honest or no? I can still cancel my purchase and return the ram.


----------



## LionAlonso

Mnemonic said:


> i heard intel is disabling avx-512 for alder lake via a microcode update, so yeah, 12th Gen suddenly looks a lot less interesting. It wasn't interesting in the first place since big/little has no place on desktop systems in my opinion. That crap is for mobile platforms and they can keep it there.
> Rocket lake is the most interesting for now. even when al the fanboys tore it down because they didn't get the MOAR they expected.


A 12900K with ecores disabled completely smashes a 11900K.
Dunno why you would say that....


----------



## murenitu

the 12900k only with 8 big cores! (I don't know if they have hyper) and it would behave like a "natural" 16cores but it is still more powerful than a 11900k


----------



## Arni90

murenitu said:


> the 12900k only with 8 big cores! (I don't know if they have hyper) and it would behave like a "natural" 16cores but it is still more powerful than a 11900k


Dude, if you really want AVX512 on a 12700K/12900K, you can just run a BIOS with older microcode.
DDR5 makes a huge difference to AVX512 performance too...


----------



## Togaidragon

LionAlonso said:


> A 12900K with ecores disabled completely smashes a 11900K.
> Dunno why you would say that....


You're using a ddr4 board? Is 12900k still like 11 gen with gears? If so what's the latency like?


----------



## LionAlonso

Togaidragon said:


> You're using a ddr4 board? Is 12900k still like 11 gen with gears? If so what's the latency like?


Yes.
And yes, but gear 1 is much more capable, im at 4100CL16 gear 1 for daily settings.
Latency around 46ns.


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> You're using a ddr4 board? Is 12900k still like 11 gen with gears? If so what's the latency like?


Slightly higher but crushes 11th gen in every other aspect. I have z590 Apex and z590Unify x with 11900ks and 12900k with Strix d4. 

12th gen all the way. If you already have 11th gen great. But in no way would I recommend someone buy a 11th gen cpu and mb new when you could buy 12700k or 12600k for less with z690 ddr4 mb and still out perform 11th gen.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> Slightly higher but crushes 11th gen in every other aspect. I have z590 Apex and z590Unify x with 11900ks and 12900k with Strix d4.
> 
> 12th gen all the way. If you already have 11th gen great. But in no way would I recommend someone buy a 11th gen cpu and mb new when you could buy 12700k or 12600k for less with z690 ddr4 mb and still out perform 11th gen.


Dang nice! Yeah I've had 11 gen for like 6 months. Started with 11700k and recently got 11900k. Ddr4 definitely seems to be the most viable config for 12 gen unless you don't care about latency and just need the really high read/write speeds. 

Seems odd to me why about would get ddr5 5400 though when you can get ddr4 5333 with half the latency


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Dang nice! Yeah I've had 11 gen for like 6 months. Started with 11700k and recently got 11900k. Ddr4 definitely seems to be the most viable config for 12 gen unless you don't care about latency and just need the really high read/write speeds.
> 
> Seems odd to me why about would get ddr5 5400 though when you can get ddr4 5333 with half the latency


The top ddr5 mem ocs are getting into mid to upper 40ns last I seen. So better performance in most cases than ddr4 if you can get it running at 6400 to 6600+ with good subtimings.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> The top ddr5 mem ocs are getting into mid to upper 40ns last I seen. So better performance in most cases than ddr4 if you can get it running at 6400 to 6600+ with good subtimings.


Yeah when it gets into the 6400 range it definitely starts to make more sense but like 5400 makes no sense to me lol


----------



## Togaidragon

So i was having some stability issues after a few days at 4000c14, I switched it to c15 and passed extreme1 test, but I've decided im going to pull two sticks and try to get 4000c14 stable. What was the process of finding which sticks are your best? Something 1 stick at a time and seeing which ones will post with the lowest voltage?


----------



## Togaidragon

So this is interesting I set mhz 3200 and everything else on auto and tested lowest post voltage. One set would post at 1.08 and the other set 1.09. No differences between the sticks of each set only differences between the sets. I'm very curious how this will look now using only the better set.


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> Slightly higher but crushes 11th gen in every other aspect. I have z590 Apex and z590Unify x with 11900ks and 12900k with Strix d4.
> 
> 12th gen all the way. If you already have 11th gen great. But in no way would I recommend someone buy a 11th gen cpu and mb new when you could buy 12700k or 12600k for less with z690 ddr4 mb and still out perform 11th gen.


Your y-cruncher 2.5B does not look much faster than mine. 

This was at only 5.2Ghz.


----------



## bscool

tps3443 said:


> Your y-cruncher 2.5B does not look much faster than mine.
> 
> This was at only 5.2Ghz.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541614


Are you serious? 84 vs 72?

Not sure what you mean?

What am I missing? 🙃

If you know how to read Y cruncher I am only running 52, not 55. MAX EFFECTIVE CLOCK 5202

Also you are delidded, custom loop etc. 

I am using a used from Amazon $100 AIO not delidded. 

Half the price MB of your Dark.

So to me that makes 12th gen even more impressive.


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> Are you serious? 84 vs 72?
> 
> Not sure what you mean?
> 
> What am I missing? 🙃
> 
> If you know how to read Y cruncher I am only running 52, not 55. Some people do not know how to read it. MAX EFFECTIVE CLOCK 5202


I am running that Y-Cruncher 2.5B at 5.2Ghz too.


----------



## Electrosoft

bscool said:


> Are you serious? 84 vs 72?
> 
> Not sure what you mean?
> 
> What am I missing? 🙃
> 
> If you know how to read Y cruncher I am only running 52, not 55. MAX EFFECTIVE CLOCK 5202
> 
> Also you are delidded, custom loop etc.
> 
> I am using a used from Amazon $100 AIO not delidded.
> 
> Half the price MB of your Dark.
> 
> So to me that makes 12th gen even more impressive.





tps3443 said:


> I am running that Y-Cruncher 2.5B at 5.2Ghz too.


Both of you are running 5.2ghz

84 vs 72 = ~15% faster.

That is roughly where it should be 11th vs 12th with that IPC uplift.


----------



## bscool

tps3443 said:


> I am running that Y-Cruncher 2.5B at 5.2Ghz too.


Yeah and 14 seconds slower.

Also you are delidded, custom loop etc.

I am using a used from Amazon $100 AIO not delidded.

Half the price MB of your Dark.

So to me that makes 12th gen even more impressive.

If you look at the data and think they are close I am not sure what to say. 

People see what they want to see. Maybe I am the one that is delusional, I mean I own both platforms. So I am justifying my new purcharse, right.

When I first bought 11th gen I didnt think it was very good and thought 10th gen was just as good. I just bought 11th gen to play with memory oc.

Look at time spy scores. 11th gen gets smoked there too by 12th gen.

I have owned the last 5 gen Intel platforms and to me 12th gen is most impressive. 11th gen was a ........could have been skipped in my opinion.

Outside of benchmarks though most people wont be able to tell the difference between the last few gens.


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> Yeah and 14 seconds slower.
> 
> Also you are delidded, custom loop etc.
> 
> I am using a used from Amazon $100 AIO not delidded.
> 
> Half the price MB of your Dark.
> 
> So to me that makes 12th gen even more impressive.
> 
> If you look at the data and think they are close I am not sure what to say.
> 
> People see what they want to see. Maybe I am the one that is delusional, I mean I own both platforms. So I am justifying my new purcharse, right.
> 
> When I first bought 11th gen I didnt think it was very good and thought 10th gen was just as good. I just bought 11th gen to play with memory oc.
> 
> Look at time spy scores. 11th gen gets smoked there too by 12th gen.
> 
> I have owned the last 5 gen Intel platforms and to me 12th gen is most impressive. 11th gen was a ........could have been skipped in my opinion.
> 
> Outside of benchmarks though most people wont be able to tell the difference between the last few gens.



The cost of my motherboard, and cooling means nothing at this point. Both chips were at 5.2Ghz. I have no issue with 12th Gen. And the _12900K does demonstrate nice performance.

I’m merely demonstrating the prowess of 11th Gen, and how competitive it can be. 


A lot of users game primarily. So I dont think there is any difference there at all. The 12900K represents great performance in multithreaded applications. But from a gamin perspective. I speak entirely from 

“Enjoy what you’ve got group”


I’d be curious to see 3dmark physics test. I am not familiar with what a 12900K achieves in those. 

Thanks. _


----------



## bscool

tps3443 said:


> The cost of my motherboard, and cooling means nothing at this point. Both chips were at 5.2Ghz. I have no issue with 12th Gen. And the _12900K does demonstrate nice performance.
> 
> I’m merely demonstrating the prowess of 11th Gen, and how competitive it can be.
> 
> 
> A lot of users game primarily. So I dont think there is any difference there at all. The 12900K represents great performance in multithreaded applications. But from a gamin perspective. I speak entirely from
> 
> “Enjoy what you’ve got group”
> 
> 
> I’d be curious to see 3dmark physics test. I am not familiar with what a 12900K achieves in those.
> 
> Thanks. _


If you are curious go look? What do you mean, you can search 3 mark by CPU, test whatever etc.


----------



## bscool

@tps3443 

Here is a thread where @geriatricpollywog posted some scores Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> @tps3443
> 
> Here is a thread where @geriatricpollywog posted some scores Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Thank you!


----------



## TheHunter

Ok so this is my little OC journey.

I started with 52ns down to 41.3ns, (intel latency checker says 39.5ns as lowest)

I also limited to secondary ram timings, those Turnaround, etc are very risky to really make a big difference. I used this ram guide as reference in the end








MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper


C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





basically only tRFC, tCL, tRAS, tWR (min12), tRTP (min8) as the big main ones


Default XMP 3600mhz profile















Now 3736mhz, 100.10mhz blck.

I used extra tXP7, tXPdll 26 here (but it crashed in Destiny2, so now im back to default txp10, dll 39)















-----------------------------------------------
here just some random "best" I could do, but I think it wasn't 100% stable in the end. Also higher blck OC, and I was around the same latency with tighter timings







------------------------------------------------

I've read recently tXP4 would be ideal, but some say it may cause stutters in games. So I won't go any lower then 7, btw I saw this number by default ram jedec timings.


I tried gear2 more and so far it booted at 4400 CL17-17-17, all at auto just to see if it will boot, with manually tweaked turnaround it couldn't pass 4266mhz.







.....................................................................................................

Now for the OC, I tried 1-2core 5.2ghz, 3-4 5.1Ghz, rest 5Ghz and it worked, but other then cpuz single threaded I didnt really see any difference, also it used more power and I don't want it to use thaat much, I think I needed ~ 1.37v to make that happen or -0.100v offset.

So now I use this
Allcore 5Ghz, @ -0.135v offset, making it around 1.33-1.34v SVID
Cache 4.3Ghz
LLC4
Gear1, 3736MHz CL14-14-14-30, 1.44v (booted and "worked" with 1.40v too)
SA 1.36V (lowest boot was ~ 1.35v, 3600mhz is ok with 1.250v)
IO2 1.25V (was ok at 1.20v too, but I use more for now)

which makes ~30400 points in Firestrike physics, default just plug and play was ~ 28500 or so.


And one interesting observation regarding cpuv and cache frequency.
5GHz in all cases and cpu voltage at auto
Cache
40x: 1.285V
41x: 1.41v
42x: 1.44v
43x: 1.47v

I can do 43x with my 1.30v limit (~ -0.135v offset), or 1.34v svid. That said cache over 40x gets very power and voltage hungry.



btw what would be CL13-13-13-26 voltage for 3733mhz? is 1.45v enough? I tested it a little, but it gave me memtest errors.


----------



## tps3443

I replaced my PSU with a brand new EVGA 1300G+ with that fat C19 power plug.

I re-ran 3DMark Profile test one time, and beat @sugi0lover I didn’t change any bios settings at all. I ran it again, and got literally the exact same score twice in a row! lol. Wondering how my PSU change could do this. People don’t just jump 11 positions in HOF top #100 by changing a PSU lol. Very weird. We know our PC’s we know what they can score. This was a shock to see my scores jump
like this? 









I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## Mnemonic

congratulations on those results with only a new psu, it confirms yet again that voltages reported by motherboards and send out by psu's are almost never correct.
Hence the use of multimeters by the professional scene. Always double and even triple check is the scientific way.


----------



## Solohuman

What is the recommended highest voltage to run with VCCIO2 for 32GB DR @ 4800Mhz on Z590?
I'm currently testing with loose timings as well. 

Thanks.


----------



## tps3443

Solohuman said:


> What is the recommended highest voltage to run with VCCIO2 for 32GB DR @ 4800Mhz on Z590?
> I'm currently testing with loose timings as well.
> 
> Thanks.


1.500V would be 24/7 safe.


----------



## Delpize

tps3443 said:


> 1.500V would be 24/7 safe.


I wonder what would be difference in gaming between 3733 13-14 and 4800 loose timings?


----------



## tps3443

Delpize said:


> I wonder what would be difference in gaming between 3733 13-14 and 4800 loose timings?


Lower latency is better for Rocketlake In gaming. So, ideally this is why 4000 CL14 Gear 1 is the golden ticket.

Gear 2 can perform better in other applications though. Especially applications that benefit from
high bandwidth.

I tested up to 5,200Mhz CL17-18-18-36 timings with 2x8GB. And, even 3600 CL13-13-13-28 was faster in games. 


I think dual rank sticks with at least 3600CL14 with fully tuned timings is ideal in (Gear 1) on rocketlake.


----------



## y2kse

I think I have an 11900K with poor IHS application. Given the below, does this seem a reasonable conclusion?

By some misfortune, I have two of 11900Ks. They are using the same motherboard, memory and power supply models. One is an Intel warranty replacement setup in a Fractal Design Meshify 2 and H115i Elite Capellix AIO. The other is a retail purchase in a Lian Li 011D XL and H150i Elite Capallix AIO. I have them set at the same UEFI settings, and they use the same(ish) VCore under varying loads. Both have an SP of 50.

Under a sample workload (Cinebench R23), the first one runs to the lower 70°Cs with generally even spread across the cores. 









Under the same workload, the second one hits the configured 90°C thermal throttle with twice as much variation across the cores. I have eliminated the case (tried running without the 011D covers, as well as in another Meshify 2 which ought to have eliminated poor thermal paste application). I don't get any signs that the AIO is questionable.


----------



## tps3443

y2kse said:


> I think I have an 11900K with poor IHS application. Given the below, does this seem a reasonable conclusion?
> 
> By some misfortune, I have two of 11900Ks. They are using the same motherboard, memory and power supply models. One is an Intel warranty replacement setup in a Fractal Design Meshify 2 and H115i Elite Capellix AIO. The other is a retail purchase in a Lian Li 011D XL and H150i Elite Capallix AIO. I have them set at the same UEFI settings, and they use the same(ish) VCore under varying loads. Both have an SP of 50.
> 
> Under a sample workload (Cinebench R23), the first one runs to the lower 70°Cs with generally even spread across the cores.
> View attachment 2542460
> 
> 
> Under the same workload, the second one hits the configured 90°C thermal throttle with twice as much variation across the cores. I have eliminated the case (tried running without the 011D covers, as well as in another Meshify 2 which ought to have eliminated poor thermal paste application). I don't get any signs that the AIO is questionable.
> View attachment 2542461


Silicon can run hot. This is all part of silicon variation though. Your second hotter running sample uses a good bit less voltage too though.

Even burning hot it uses less voltage.


----------



## Mnemonic

i got a question concerning vccsa and hwinfo64. Vccsa is being reported as being 1.592 ~ 1.602 (the higher one under heavy load).
While just beneath vccsa i get a VIN7 that reports 1.525.
Could it be a hwinfo64 fault that vccsa reported is the suplied voltage but VIN7 is the actual chip voltage ?
And are those voltages ok under no-oc. Just default mobo settings of mostly auto everything. Under those settings PL1 and PL2 limits are set to 4095.9 watts maximum but it never uses more then 270 watts max under extreme loads, should i set the limits to intel spec or leave em like that, not overclocking anyway for the time being.


----------



## bscool

Mnemonic said:


> i got a question concerning vccsa and hwinfo64. Vccsa is being reported as being 1.592 ~ 1.602 (the higher one under heavy load).
> While just beneath vccsa i get a VIN7 that reports 1.525.
> Could it be a hwinfo64 fault that vccsa reported is the suplied voltage but VIN7 is the actual chip voltage ?
> And are those voltages ok under no-oc. Just default mobo settings of mostly auto everything. Under those settings PL1 and PL2 limits are set to 4095.9 watts maximum but it never uses more then 270 watts max under extreme loads, should i set the limits to intel spec or leave em like that, not overclocking anyway for the time being.


I dont know the answer for sure. But I think the ones that are not identified are ones the maker of Hwinfo doesnt know what they are hence the weird name like vin7. I could be wrong though lol just me guess.

Edit quick google from HWINFO site

"Yes, VIN stands for "Voltage Input" and it's a generic naming for sensors which meaning is unknown. Such sensors are most probably not used (not connected to a real source) on mainboard and thus can provide erratic values. I wouldn't worry about it."





__





Very high VIN7 voltage reported. What is it?


What is it? I just assembled a i7 8700 non-k system and in the process of reducing voltages across the board for thermals and longevity and has been successfull with the VCore and VCCIO/SA and RAM voltage, but I can't find any info anywhere about a "VIN7" voltage setting. I tried fiddling around...




www.hwinfo.com


----------



## D-EJ915

y2kse said:


> I think I have an 11900K with poor IHS application. Given the below, does this seem a reasonable conclusion?
> 
> By some misfortune, I have two of 11900Ks. They are using the same motherboard, memory and power supply models. One is an Intel warranty replacement setup in a Fractal Design Meshify 2 and H115i Elite Capellix AIO. The other is a retail purchase in a Lian Li 011D XL and H150i Elite Capallix AIO. I have them set at the same UEFI settings, and they use the same(ish) VCore under varying loads. Both have an SP of 50.
> 
> Under a sample workload (Cinebench R23), the first one runs to the lower 70°Cs with generally even spread across the cores.
> 
> 
> Under the same workload, the second one hits the configured 90°C thermal throttle with twice as much variation across the cores. I have eliminated the case (tried running without the 011D covers, as well as in another Meshify 2 which ought to have eliminated poor thermal paste application). I don't get any signs that the AIO is questionable.


test the bad one in the good system just to make sure it's the cpu


----------



## Delpize

tps3443 said:


> I replaced my PSU with a brand new EVGA 1300G+ with that fat C19 power plug.
> 
> I re-ran 3DMark Profile test one time, and beat @sugi0lover I didn’t change any bios settings at all. I ran it again, and got literally the exact same score twice in a row! lol. Wondering how my PSU change could do this. People don’t just jump 11 positions in HOF top #100 by changing a PSU lol. Very weird. We know our PC’s we know what they can score. This was a shock to see my scores jump
> like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


How a psu could effecy performance? I assume there isnt any problem on your system with your previous psu right? So, whats the diff between previous one and current?


----------



## y2kse

D-EJ915 said:


> test the bad one in the good system just to make sure it's the cpu


I'd considered that just for the possibilty of getting another multiple or two of speed from the thermal headroom of the cooler-running one but the hotter-running one is a PITA to disassemble. The hotter-running one is mostly gaming use whereas the cooler-running one is more general use so its probably better this way anyway.


----------



## Solohuman

tps3443 said:


> 1.500V would be 24/7 safe.


Got it. I have new MSI unify board now (previous was Giga Aura Ultra) & at 4600 CL19, it auto volts to 1.495v according to HWiNFO. Still getting use to this new board, when I have more time will shoot for that 4800 CL19


----------



## Togaidragon

Bit of an update, I pulled the glass panels off the front and top of my case(corsair 5000x) and added a fan to the top of my gpu and my ram now gets to around 44 degrees in stress test instead of 49 lol. I still get an error in anta but it's at the 1hr mark sooo whatev. I tried 3733c14 and lost so much write speed and even gained a little latency so I went back to 4000c15. I think I'm at 1.6v now. Oh yeah and bringing my all core clock down to 50 instead of 51 actually helped stability...I'm thinking it's because of the relationship with voltage and cache that tps3443 mentioned. But my cores are still spiking to 1.55v even with the lower clock which is nuts. I'm probably degrading this 11900k...I just hope it lasts a couple of years that's all I need out of it lol


----------



## Togaidragon

I do have a question though, I've seen some people pushing what I would consider pretty crazy voltages through their dram. Like up to 1.9. Is it possible that this is safe AT ALL for daily use? Is it a matter of keeping temps down? Lets say I bump my sticks up to 1.7, but I am able to keep the sticks still in the mid 40's during use/tests. Is that at all safe or am I looking at degradation? Also is pushing that much voltage going to negatively affect stability? Because it almost seems as though my current settings are more stable at 1.55 than at 1.6...


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> I do have a question though, I've seen some people pushing what I would consider pretty crazy voltages through their dram. Like up to 1.9. Is it possible that this is safe AT ALL for daily use? Is it a matter of keeping temps down? Lets say I bump my sticks up to 1.7, but I am able to keep the sticks still in the mid 40's during use/tests. Is that at all safe or am I looking at degradation? Also is pushing that much voltage going to negatively affect stability? Because it almost seems as though my current settings are more stable at 1.55 than at 1.6...


, That is probably for benchmark. 1,7 hynix might do on water cooling dimms for daily.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> , That is probably for benchmark. 1,7 hynix might do on water


Ah okay. What would be the point of doing that for a benchmark if they using that as a point for selling? I saw someone on another forum pushing really high voltage/frequencies and advertising them to be sold(seems he sold all 8 sets) Does that sort of benchmark just help people get an idea of what they are capable of at lower frequency/voltage? Like if I see him pushing some sticks at 1.9v doing 5600c20 then I could probably run them at 4000c14 easier than a pair of sticks that do 5333c19 at 1.8?


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Ah okay. What would be the point of doing that for a benchmark if they using that as a point for selling? I saw someone on another forum pushing really high voltage/frequencies and advertising them to be sold(seems he sold all 8 sets) Does that sort of benchmark just help people get an idea of what they are capable of at lower frequency/voltage? Like if I see him pushing some sticks at 1.9v doing 5600c20 then I could probably run them at 4000c14 easier than a pair of sticks that do 5333c19 at 1.8?


Depends if you are talking about on hwbot guys do that to sell to other xoc guess.

As for will run tighter timing at lower clocks yes, usually. But still takes very good sticks to run 4000c14 on air n pass memory stability tests.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> Depends if you are talking about on hwbot guys do that to sell to other xoc guess.
> 
> As for will run tighter timing at lower clocks yes, usually. But still takes very good sticks to run 4000c14 on air n pass memory stability tests.


RIght on. At this point I'm basically just going to wait until I can find the dual rank 32g 4000c14 kits from gskill...all of them are sold out so I'm not sure if they are even making them anymore, but I'm going to spend the next year looking for them basically...by the time I find them raptor lake wont be too far away LOL


----------



## Togaidragon

Also DONT LAUGH XD...but aside from not having this fan mounted(i will fix that soon, also ignore the tylenol support bottle), do you think I should have it pointed directly at the ram? The reason I did it like this is the GPU generates a TON of heat, and even the fans pulling air down through the cpu rad seem to blow pretty warm air. So I figured i should put this fan here to help push all of it towards the back exhaust fan...


----------



## bscool

@Togaidragon the only way to really know is try both ways.

I would think it would cool better aimed directly at the ram. That is how I have done it when running memtests.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> @Togaidragon the only way to really know is try both ways.
> 
> I would think it would cool better aimed directly at the ram. That is how I have done it when running memtests.


Okay ill try it out and see what happens! would be nice to drop another 2-3 degrees


----------



## AndreySV

Togaidragon said:


> RIght on. At this point I'm basically just going to wait until I can find the dual rank 32g 4000c14 kits from gskill...all of them are sold out so I'm not sure if they are even making them anymore, but I'm going to spend the next year looking for them basically...by the time I find them raptor lake wont be too far away LOL


Almost any good G.Skills takes 4000cl14 at 1.6V. So no need to pay so much for 4000cl14 to g.Skills


----------



## Togaidragon

AndreySV said:


> Almost any good G.Skills takes 4000cl14 at 1.6V. So no need to pay so much for 4000cl14 to g.Skills


Well I'm running 4x8 so it's a little different but I don't think I've tried running 1.6 since I fixed the cooling issues so I'll try that too


----------



## AndreySV

I am also still thinking can I push Vdimm to 1.75V to reach 3600CL12 for 24/7? Or better stay at 3600CL13 with 1.57V


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> @Togaidragon the only way to really know is try both ways.
> 
> I would think it would cool better aimed directly at the ram. That is how I have done it when running memtests.


im going to try that setup right now


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> I am also still thinking can I push Vdimm to 1.75V to reach 3600CL12 for 24/7? Or better stay at 3600CL13 with 1.57V


Try it and see. I cant imagine cooling 1.75v for daily. Even 1.55 to 1.6 is high for daily unless you are water cooling dimms or fan on them.


----------



## Togaidragon

I honestly can't believe how big of a difference all the changes made to temps. Taking off the glass panels, figuring out my exhaust fan was at 1/2 speed, and now adding the fan pointed at the RAM. I'm now running anta for 20 minutes at 14/15/30 with 300trfc and 65000 trefi 1.6v and just hit 44 degrees. It's still climbing but very very slowly. I would already be near 50 at these setting before the changes. Amazing

Now at 30 minutes and the hottest stick stabilized at 44.3.
The rest are 43/43.8/42.5


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> Try it and see. I cant imagine cooling 1.75v for daily. Even 1.55 to 1.6 is high for daily unless you are water cooling dimms or fan on them.


No cooling problems at all with 80mm fan, 1.57V can work even without additional cooling, 80mm fan is give -10C to temp, so 1,75V not a problem for cooling


----------



## Togaidragon

Ugh still got an error at 40min. Going to increase voltage to 1.63 and try again. If it still happens I'll go back down to 1.6 and try bringing cpu clock down to 4.9


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> No cooling problems at all with 80mm fan, 1.57V can work even without additional cooling, 80mm fan is give -10C to temp, so 1,75V not a problem for cooling


Running memtest? And tight subs? Post screen shots with voltages and temps. I want to see this.


----------



## WebsterRKL

How about 11600K results? I guess little i5s are not so important. 

These are only Noctua air-cooling results. Currently working on a custom AIO for the build.


----------



## bscool

WebsterRKL said:


> How about 11600K results? I guess little i5s are not so important.
> 
> These are only Noctua air-cooling results. Currently working on a custom AIO for the build.
> 
> View attachment 2543187
> 
> View attachment 2543188
> 
> View attachment 2543189


How come you never show any benches just meaningless screen shots.


----------



## WebsterRKL

I couldn't get stable benches with the 5333 Hynix kit, it's almost like AIDA 64 had no handshake from Gskill or Asus, the results were like 52ns, pretty bad overall.

Here's the best I got with the b-die kit.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> Running memtest? And tight subs? Post screen shots with voltages and temps. I want to see this.


1.57V 80mm fan


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> 1.57V 80mm fan
> View attachment 2543193


You need hwinfo to show all voltages. and temps

Edit not stablity test just screenshot I took.


----------



## bscool

WebsterRKL said:


> I couldn't get stable benches with the 5333 Hynix kit, it's almost like AIDA 64 had no handshake from Gskill or Asus, the results were like 52ns, pretty bad overall.
> 
> Here's the best I got with the b-die kit.
> View attachment 2543191


Those are good sticks. I posted a screen shot above of my HTPC air cooled with Noctua c14 Unify X 5333c20. It was water cooled and now in a small HTPC case with aircooler had to lower clocks and voltages. Still take very high voltages to run 5333 memtest stable on UNify X for my CPU.


----------



## AndreySV

bscool said:


> You need hwinfo to show all voltages. and temps


I told u 1.57V what a problem?


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> I told u 1.57V what a problem?


Nothing I was just telling you. Didnt know if you knew. Was trying to be helpful. Do whatever works for you.


----------



## bscool

AndreySV said:


> No cooling problems at all with 80mm fan, 1.57V can work even without additional cooling, 80mm fan is give -10C to temp, so 1,75V not a problem for cooling


And I am not surprised you can cool 1.57v it it the 1.75v that would be impressive. Never seen anyone do that on aircooling on b dies for memtest.


----------



## Togaidragon

Sooo I just passed the first cycle of extreme1 profile at c14...that's the first time I've ever been able to get this far. The thing is I'm pretty sure what I changed was bumping SA from 1.5 to 1.55...is this even slightly okay or is that a no go?


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Sooo I just passed the first cycle of extreme1 profile at c14...that's the first time I've ever been able to get this far. The thing is I'm pretty sure what I changed was bumping SA from 1.5 to 1.55...is this even slightly okay or is that a no go?


That is up to you to decide. Most people say 1.45 is the "safe" limit but some people run more.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> That is up to you to decide. Most people say 1.45 is the "safe" limit but some people run more.


Well...I guess I will have something to contribute to the thread if it melts XD...I feel like Kramer in the test drive/gas episode...gonna see how long this baby will go


----------



## bscool

Togaidragon said:


> Well...I guess I will have something to contribute to the thread if it melts XD...I feel like Kramer in the test drive/gas episode...gonna see how long this baby will go


I think you will be fine. I have ran sa up to 1.65 for a while. I am at 1.5v for my Unify X with 11900k in my HTPC.


----------



## Togaidragon

bscool said:


> I think you will be fine. I have ran sa up to 1.65 for a while. I am at 1.5v for my Unify X with 11900k in my HTPC.


I hope so! Either way I'm happy I finally have a good setting that will pass stress tests  I've been dealing with ram issues for months...on the bright side I feel like I've learned a lot from the knowledge you guys share here so kudos and thanks man


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Okay ill try it out and see what happens! would be nice to drop another 2-3 degrees


Go to Corsair.com and order their 2x16GB 3600CL14 sticks. I run them at 4000CL14 with memtest stability at 1.600V. They run ridiculously cool too. You can buy the set for $239.99 and sometimes use a coupon and get them for less than $200. Best bargain available right now. Plus, they look fantastic.

You just use the search feature on the Corsair website to find them. Search for “3600 CL14” Corsair hides them well on their website lol.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> Go to Corsair.com and order their 2x16GB 3600CL14 sticks. I run them at 4000CL14 with memtest stability at 1.600V. They run ridiculously cool too. You can buy the set for $239.99 and sometimes use a coupon and get them for less than $200. Best bargain available right now. Plus, they look fantastic.
> 
> You just use the search feature on the Corsair website to find them. Search for “3600 CL14” Corsair hides them well on their website lol.


Yeah I remembered you said that and checked and they are sold out =/ seems like the production on ddr4 is slowing because of ddr5 or something. I did set a notification for stock. I can't afford then right now anyway but I do want to see how often they come back in stock


----------



## tps3443

Togaidragon said:


> Yeah I remembered you said that and checked and they are sold out =/ seems like the production on ddr4 is slowing because of ddr5 or something. I did set a notification for stock. I can't afford then right now anyway but I do want to see how often they come back in stock


No, they are always sold out. it’s a popular product. and they come back in stock daily, or every other day.


It has been like that since Corsair first made that set available here recently. You’ve gotta check periodically every day.


I know at least 6-7 people who have purchased the exact same memory kit from Corsair.com over the past week or so.


----------



## Togaidragon

tps3443 said:


> No, they are always sold out. it’s a popular product. and they come back in stock daily, or every other day.
> 
> 
> It has been like that since Corsair first made that set available here recently. You’ve gotta check periodically every day.
> 
> 
> I know at least 6-7 people who have purchased the exact same memory kit from Corsair.com over the past week or so.


Cool good to know


----------



## NorySS

FYI the z590 OC Formula can run 1T command rate, 24/7 daily stable with my 11900k, but wont boot, 3866, not matter how much voltage i throw at the SA or IO2. 

And yet the Z590 Apex auto boots 3866 on auto everything., Sa needs 1.51v. But the APEX cant do 3866, even to load windows. (both setups using DR Corsair Bdie).


----------



## AndreySV

What is the safe Vcore for 11700KF will be? I wanna reach 5ghz all cores and 4.3Ghz ring at 1.4V is it ok for 24/7? Right now i have 1.32V 4.8/4.1Ghz core/ring. Will be glade for advice.


----------



## Lownage

AndreySV said:


> What is the safe Vcore for 11700KF will be? I wanna reach 5ghz all cores and 4.3Ghz ring at 1.4V is it ok for 24/7? Right now i have 1.32V 4.8/4.1Ghz core/ring. Will be glade for advice.


Im running 1.4V LLC6 since release. Up to 1.45V with good cooling should be fine.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

NorySS said:


> FYI the z590 OC Formula can run 1T command rate, 24/7 daily stable with my 11900k, but wont boot, 3866, not matter how much voltage i throw at the SA or IO2.
> 
> And yet the Z590 Apex auto boots 3866 on auto everything., Sa needs 1.51v. But the APEX cant do 3866, even to load windows. (both setups using DR Corsair Bdie).


Interesting my Z590 OC Formula boots up to 4040c14 in Gear 1 (2x16 dual rank) and passes 200% HCI Memtest at 4000c14. Must be a dirty ram slot.


----------



## Delpize

geriatricpollywog said:


> Interesting my Z590 OC Formula boots up to 4040c14 in Gear 1 (2x16 dual rank) and passes 200% HCI Memtest at 4000c14. Must be a dirty ram slot.


What do you mean by dirty?


----------



## Mnemonic

i'll say it again for those who are hard to hear: overclocking is useless since a few years, manufacturers have learned how to maximize their profits by binning everything in the factory.
Sure you can still try with the added benefit of having it all die real quick, with the added benefit for manufacturers that they can sell more new gear. Got it all ?
If you want to oc to show of the no-brains and no-skills you have , go ahead, but please don't act as if you are all pro's who know what they are doing. And don't whine or blame the brands for your own stupidity and gullibility. There are a few who know what they are doing and they do it to show of their true skills, with liquid nitrogen mostly. It has got nothing to do with running a 24/7 stable system.
But all amateurs always think they know best. 
And why even oc when the current tech will do anything you ask from it fast. Do you really need 510 fps instead of 500 ??? It's ridiculous and you all make fools of yourselves, not in the least to these manufacturers who are all smirking at you and your idiocy and your empty wallets. But it's always been the same with the human race.


----------



## NorySS

geriatricpollywog said:


> Interesting my Z590 OC Formula boots up to 4040c14 in Gear 1 (2x16 dual rank) and passes 200% HCI Memtest at 4000c14. Must be a dirty ram slot.


you probably have a much better IMC than mine. I used the same CPU, same memory but different boards.
I was adding to the thousands of post.
The OC Formula does seem to behave overall better than the apex with the same CPU.


----------



## Nizzen

NorySS said:


> you probably have a much better IMC than mine. I used the same CPU, same memory but different boards.
> I was adding to the thousands of post.
> The OC Formula does seem to behave overall better than the apex with the same CPU.


So where is the OC Formula vs Apex results?


----------



## Nizzen

Mnemonic said:


> i'll say it again for those who are hard to hear: overclocking is useless since a few years, manufacturers have learned how to maximize their profits by binning everything in the factory.
> Sure you can still try with the added benefit of having it all die real quick, with the added benefit for manufacturers that they can sell more new gear. Got it all ?
> If you want to oc to show of the no-brains and no-skills you have , go ahead, but please don't act as if you are all pro's who know what they are doing. And don't whine or blame the brands for your own stupidity and gullibility. There are a few who know what they are doing and they do it to show of their true skills, with liquid nitrogen mostly. It has got nothing to do with running a 24/7 stable system.
> But all amateurs always think they know best.
> And why even oc when the current tech will do anything you ask from it fast. Do you really need 510 fps instead of 500 ??? It's ridiculous and you all make fools of yourselves, not in the least to these manufacturers who are all smirking at you and your idiocy and your empty wallets. But it's always been the same with the human race.


You are on the wrong forums. This is not stock-clock.net 
Overclocking is dead?
12400f enters the chat... Overclocking is still dead? DDR5 4800mhz Hynix enters the chat, and kills the question....


----------



## Solohuman

Fellow overclockers, what is the best Vcore arrangement with these options for manual all core OC? I'm on adaptive + offset mode & so far with a few stress tests, it's holding up well.
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Solohuman

Mnemonic said:


> i'll say it again for those who are hard to hear: overclocking is useless since a few years, manufacturers have learned how to maximize their profits by binning everything in the factory.
> Sure you can still try with the added benefit of having it all die real quick, with the added benefit for manufacturers that they can sell more new gear. Got it all ?
> If you want to oc to show of the no-brains and no-skills you have , go ahead, but please don't act as if you are all pro's who know what they are doing. And don't whine or blame the brands for your own stupidity and gullibility. There are a few who know what they are doing and they do it to show of their true skills, with liquid nitrogen mostly. It has got nothing to do with running a 24/7 stable system.
> But all amateurs always think they know best.
> And why even oc when the current tech will do anything you ask from it fast. Do you really need 510 fps instead of 500 ??? It's ridiculous and you all make fools of yourselves, not in the least to these manufacturers who are all smirking at you and your idiocy and your empty wallets. But it's always been the same with the human race.


Really, no kidding???
So why do motherboard manufacturers sell motherboards with OC options?? same applies to graphic cards.... 
You do not understand the human race, tinkering & fiddling to improve performance no matter how minuscule you think that is has always been in the human brain. Only a bot would not understand that.


----------



## Mnemonic

If you would have read and comprehended what was said, you would have your answer without having to ask what you asked.
Do you really think anyone of them cares about you or the things you bought from them? The more you buy, the happier they will be. 
They count on the gullibility of the masses who don't even bother to *Read The ****ing Manual*.
The never ending thirst of man to compete is being exploited, same as it ever was.
And then those users even have the nerve to try and claim warranties...to which i say, how high did you get your clocks then (before you broke it)? Silence ensues...


----------



## rhyno

this poor sap has nothing better to do than try to troll in a dead 11900k forum. sad


----------



## Solohuman

Mnemonic said:


> If you would have read and comprehended what was said, you would have your answer without having to ask what you asked.
> Do you really think anyone of them cares about you or the things you bought from them? The more you buy, the happier they will be.
> They count on the gullibility of the masses who don't even bother to *Read The ****ing Manual*.
> The never ending thirst of man to compete is being exploited, same as it ever was.
> And then those users even have the nerve to try and claim warranties...to which i say, how high did you get your clocks then (before you broke it)? Silence ensues...


Right here there is a jealous Marxist that hates anyone who participates in competition. Despite them enjoying the advantages of modern technology like having the ability to make a post about how much they hate overclockers! that technology only came about to the masses because of COMPETITION!


----------



## Mnemonic

and you are so wrong with your analysis, making me think you are only born to fight a losing war thinking you know everything, but no you are no god either.
it's clear you assume too much, it even seems you have no clue about how the tech came to be and why.
But you're all wiseguys in your own right, aren't you. Overclocking used to be useful and really did get you a decent gain, but now it's all about bragging rights over 0.5 % or 1 fps. 
It is you who look ridiculous to anyone which had the good experience when it was actually useful, now it's nothing but copycats in a child's game of no results really, you need statistics and benchmarks to show of a gain that everybody in the old days would just laugh at. But you still don't understand because you never lived those days, being a mere seed in your dad's pouch.
LOL.


----------



## Arni90

Mnemonic said:


> and you are so wrong with your analysis, making me think you are only born to fight a losing war thinking you know everything, but no you are no god either.
> it's clear you assume too much, it even seems you have no clue about how the tech came to be and why.
> But you're all wiseguys in your own right, aren't you. Overclocking used to be useful and really did get you a decent gain, but now it's all about bragging rights over 0.5 % or 1 fps.
> It is you who look ridiculous to anyone which had the good experience when it was actually useful, now it's nothing but copycats in a child's game of no results really, you need statistics and benchmarks to show of a gain that everybody in the old days would just laugh at. But you still don't understand because you never lived those days, being a mere seed in your dad's pouch.
> LOL.


Do you have anything to add regarding 11th gen / Rocket Lake overclocking?

Let me remind you that this thread is about overclocking 11th gen, which is mostly relegated to memory OC.


----------



## rhyno

oh let him continue please. We are getting a real laugh at him over here  Guy said "im old so im better than you, you will never understand because i am old and you are not" even though I'm probably older than him. No no, please continue with your wise words Mnemonic *****


----------



## Mnemonic

Rocket Lake; Core Temp Mins 0 | HWiNFO Forum 

Read this and cry your hearts out, amateurs. That is what real smart professionals are capable of. 
Took me only a few minutes of thinking about the problem while it exists for more as a year.

But i guess you all are the pro's who don't feel a need to respect anyone outside yourselves.


----------



## Arni90

Mnemonic said:


> Rocket Lake; Core Temp Mins 0 | HWiNFO Forum
> 
> Read this and cry your hearts out, amateurs. That is what real smart professionals are capable of.
> Took me only a few minutes of thinking about the problem while it exists for more as a year.
> 
> But i guess you all are the pro's who don't feel a need to respect anyone outside yourselves.


Interesting, even if temp readings are mostly inconsequential unless you're thermal throttling.

Why are you accusing people on this forum for not respecting others, while you're doing the same yourself?

As for overclocking being dead, it most certainly is if you're doing it for some kind of bargain, but it's still fun to push the limits. And really, why criticize people for doing stuff they enjoy?

EDIT: clarified that OC is a hobby for most people, not really anything necessary


----------



## sharkcohen

Hi all, I've got an 11900K with an Asus TUF z590 and Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 that I have been playing with. I use this system for gaming. It also currently has 8x4 G.Skill Ripjaw C16 3200 ram, and I'm considering upgrading to some 16x2 C14 3600 and then playing with memory overclocking, which I have no experience with. 

I've got it up to 5.1 all core (and 5.4 on the two favored cores). Here's how things look in hwinfo after 30 minutes of Prime95 small no AVX. I've thrown OCCT at it, Prime95, 3DMark stress tests, 20 loops of Metro Exodus Enhanced benchmark, and it has shown no instability. How does it look? What else can I show you? Thanks in advance.


----------



## nexxusty

Mnemonic said:


> and you are so wrong with your analysis, *making me think you are only born to fight a losing war thinking you know everything*, but no you are no god either.
> it's clear you assume too much, it even seems you have no clue about how the tech came to be and why.
> But you're all wiseguys in your own right, aren't you. Overclocking used to be useful and really did get you a decent gain, but now it's all about bragging rights over 0.5 % or 1 fps.
> It is you who look ridiculous to anyone which had the good experience when it was actually useful, now it's nothing but copycats in a child's game of no results really, you need statistics and benchmarks to show of a gain that everybody in the old days would just laugh at. But you still don't understand because you never lived those days, being a mere seed in your dad's pouch.
> LOL.


Borderline hilarious seeing this come from a German. Honestly.


----------



## rhyno

Mnemonic said:


> Rocket Lake; Core Temp Mins 0 | HWiNFO Forum
> 
> Read this and cry your hearts out, amateurs. That is what real smart professionals are capable of.
> Took me only a few minutes of thinking about the problem while it exists for more as a year.
> 
> But i guess you all are the pro's who don't feel a need to respect anyone outside yourselves.


anyone whos OCed 11900ks knows this.....this is not new


----------



## Groove2013

OC'ed my gear 1 RAM from 4000 to 4040 MHz using BCLK 101 MHz.

36.2 ns instead of 36.6 ns now.


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover hi.
Have you ever used close to or more than 1.7 V on B-DIE for a long period of time?


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover hi.
> Have you ever used close to or more than 1.7 V on B-DIE for a long period of time?


Yes longer than 6 months without any problem, but I used water cooling for Ram, so I am not sure on air.


----------



## Groove2013

sugi0lover said:


> Yes longer than 6 months without any problem, but I used water cooling for Ram, so I am not sure on air.


How high was the real voltage?


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> How high was the real voltage?


For 10900K, 4900Mhz-16-17-17-34-340-2T (1.670v)




__





Google Photos







photos.google.com





For 11900K, 5000Mhz-16-17-17-28-265-1T (1:2) (1.700v)




__





Google Photos







photos.google.com


----------



## Togaidragon

So I bought 6 new corsair ll120mm fans and replaced all my case fans(including the one pointing at ram) and the ram dropped another 4 degrees  now it barely hits 40 degrees after 30 min on testmem.


----------



## Togaidragon

Also, why is this mnemonic guy so angry 😅


----------



## Solohuman

sharkcohen said:


> Hi all, I've got an 11900K with an Asus TUF z590 and Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 that I have been playing with. I use this system for gaming. It also currently has 8x4 G.Skill Ripjaw C16 3200 ram, and I'm considering upgrading to some 16x2 C14 3600 and then playing with memory overclocking, which I have no experience with.
> 
> I've got it up to 5.1 all core (and 5.4 on the two favored cores). Here's how things look in hwinfo after 30 minutes of Prime95 small no AVX. I've thrown OCCT at it, Prime95, 3DMark stress tests, 20 loops of Metro Exodus Enhanced benchmark, and it has shown no instability. How does it look? What else can I show you? Thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 2544418


Very interesting  but can I ask why test with no AVX? this set of instructions & its derivatives is becoming more popular with devs as the years have gone by since the mid 2010's or thereabouts.


----------



## Solohuman

Mnemonic said:


> and you are so wrong with your analysis, making me think you are only born to fight a losing war thinking you know everything, but no you are no god either.
> it's clear you assume too much, it even seems you have no clue about how the tech came to be and why.
> But you're all wiseguys in your own right, aren't you. Overclocking used to be useful and really did get you a decent gain, but now it's all about bragging rights over 0.5 % or 1 fps.
> It is you who look ridiculous to anyone which had the good experience when it was actually useful, now it's nothing but copycats in a child's game of no results really, you need statistics and benchmarks to show of a gain that everybody in the old days would just laugh at. But you still don't understand because you never lived those days, being a mere seed in your dad's pouch.
> LOL.


Subjectivity is strong in this one, your the one making *ass*umptions to the point your making an *ass* out or yourself! You have no idea whatsoever of not only my age but the ages of other contributors to this thread. But that's ok, believe what you want. 




Mnemonic said:


> Rocket Lake; Core Temp Mins 0 | HWiNFO Forum
> 
> Read this and cry your hearts out, amateurs. That is what real smart professionals are capable of.
> Took me only a few minutes of thinking about the problem while it exists for more as a year.
> 
> But i guess you all are the pro's who don't feel a need to respect anyone outside yourselves.


HWiNFO is not the perfect monitoring app, never has been, none of them are. I've seen HWiNFO get stuff wrong that only windows could indicate is correct. For you to think we all worship HWiNFO like its the holy grail of monitoring apps again demonstrates your inclination to make *ass*umptions.


----------



## rulik006

Can anyone explain why on 1151/1200 memory latency inconsistent between motherboards/bios
11600k on M13H 43ns 4500ring
11600k on M12F 48ns 4400ring
*Same timings *primary/second/third
PPD-0


Spoiler: M13H

















Spoiler: M12F 4000c16_GTRS

















Spoiler: M12F third auto CMD3200c16


----------



## sharkcohen

Solohuman said:


> Very interesting  but can I ask why test with no AVX? this set of instructions & its derivatives is becoming more popular with devs as the years have gone by since the mid 2010's or thereabouts.


I have tested AVX, too, but the AVX offsets clock it lower and I wanted to know what was happening at 5.1. Am I doing it wrong?


----------



## bscool

rulik006 said:


> Can anyone explain why on 1151/1200 memory latency inconsistent between motherboards/bios
> 11600k on M13H 43ns 4500ring
> 11600k on M12F 48ns 4400ring
> *Same timings *primary/second/third
> PPD-0
> 
> 
> Spoiler: M13H
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: M12F 4000c16_GTRS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: M12F third auto CMD3200c16


Could be microcode and try ppd1 I know on MSI z490 some bios versions had it backwards when using 11th gen CPU. Other than that no idea.

Oh wait just saw you are comparing z490 to z590. That is the big factor z490 MB will always have higher latencys and lower copy than z590 using same settings. Same with z490 Apex vs z590 Apex.


----------



## rulik006

bscool said:


> Could be microcode and try ppd1 I know on MSI z490 some bios versions had it backwards when using 11th gen CPU. Other than that no idea.
> 
> Oh wait just saw you are comparing z490 to z590. That is the big factor z490 MB will always have higher latencys and lower copy than z590 using same settings. Same with z490 Apex vs z590 Apex.


43.6ns now
also noticed that 11700k/11900k has always lower latency 



Spoiler


----------



## Solohuman

sharkcohen said:


> I have tested AVX, too, but the AVX offsets clock it lower and I wanted to know what was happening at 5.1. Am I doing it wrong?


Can't you adjust AVX settings in bios? don't know what mobo your on but if your cooling is up to it, set them to 0 offset. Watch thermals or it will throttle.


----------



## Thrakis

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k - SP 88/89
> cpu stock LLC2
> GSKILL f4-4800c17d-16GVK
> @4800 17-17-17-28 @1.53v set
> sa/mcio 0.85/1v
> 
> View attachment 2489862
> 
> View attachment 2489863


Did You get it to run stably?
Would You mind sharing timings, Vref, VTT, ODT, slope settings, other important?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## cstkl1

Thrakis said:


> Did You get it to run stably?
> Would You mind sharing timings, Vref, VTT, ODT, slope settings, other important?
> Thanks in advance.


its stable [email protected] or 3866c13 [email protected]

sold already
vref/vtt auto. odt 80/48/40
slopes require algo.


----------



## Thrakis

cstkl1 said:


> its stable [email protected] or 3866c13 [email protected]
> 
> sold already
> vref/vtt auto. odt 80/48/40
> slopes require algo.


Thanks for quick response.
What algo for slopes are you thinking about?


----------



## cstkl1

Thrakis said:


> Thanks for quick response.
> What algo for slopes are you thinking about?


its too long ago for me to recall 

its on this thread tm5, karhu, hci 1000% stable on 51|46


----------



## TheHunter

Right so here is a weird thing.

I turned off powerdown mode, which also disabled PPD 0, and Aida64 showed increased latency from 42-43ns to 47ns, while MLC.exe dropped from 40-41ns to 35-36ns. That said what is more correct, I guess intel own tool? Im a little lost here, I rebooted the system just to be sure and MLC still shows better latency?

cpu-z shows the same multi and single core score.


Powerdown enabled















Powerdown disabled, I think I used ring 43x by mlc here,
















And one more thing, regarding odt "80/48/40", mine are 80, 80, 48park?, should i change one of them 80 to 40?


EDIT:
Speaking of cpuz score, or 3dmark timespy or firestrike physics, if I run it after a while (idle system idk 15min or more) score drops around 200points in cpuz and 3dmark physics 1000points? Is this because of this power down mode?

edit2: no powerdown off didnt help, it just lowered cpuz multi score now after I re-ran again, cpuv not enough? OR why would it be ok by boot, but then goes lower after few minutes. AVX is set to enabled and both at 0 offset, also disabled all power saving c-states and set ratio to fixed which disabled eist and turbo boost.


and mlc after a little while, initial latency gains 10ns, and somehow this low latency also raises at end and I lose tiny bit on read speeds 400-500MB/s.


----------



## freddy85

How can i lower the RTL timing?

If i manally adjust them to 60 in bios it wont boot, so have them on auto.


----------



## jeiselramos

freddy85 said:


> How can i lower the RTL timing?
> 
> If i manally adjust them to 60 in bios it wont boot, so have them on auto.
> 
> View attachment 2547040


Round Trip latency enable 
It's under training algorithm in dram timing


----------



## freddy85

jeiselramos said:


> Round Trip latency enable
> It's under training algorithm in dram timing


I cant figure it out, where is this round trip latency setting in bios?

Also i was able to lower the latency a bit by setting tXP to 4 and PPD to 0.


----------



## jeiselramos

freddy85 said:


> I cant figure it out, where is this round trip latency setting in bios?
> 
> Also i was able to lower the latency a bit by setting tXP to 4 and PPD to 0.
> View attachment 2547099


Press f9 and search


----------



## Arni90

freddy85 said:


> I cant figure it out, where is this round trip latency setting in bios?
> 
> Also i was able to lower the latency a bit by setting tXP to 4 and PPD to 0.
> View attachment 2547099



Under Memory Training Algorithms


----------



## freddy85

Arni90 said:


> Under Memory Training Algorithms





jeiselramos said:


> Press f9 and search


Thank you, now the latency is around 41ns.









My computer is on 24/7, is turning off PPD safe? The temperature seems fine at around 35-40c.


----------



## Martin v r

freddy85 said:


> How can i lower the RTL timing?
> 
> If i manally adjust them to 60 in bios it wont boot, so have them on auto.
> 
> View attachment 2547040


here from a msi


----------



## freddy85

Martin v r said:


> here from a msi


It wouldn't boot if i manually lowered them, but turning on round trip latency worked. Went from 70 to 60.


----------



## Arni90

Martin v r said:


> here from a msi


That's 10th gen, 11th and 12th gen doesn't have any IO-L adjustment available


----------



## WebsterRKL

Rocket Lake 11600K custom AIO (no res) build in progress.

Sorry, everything is not bolted down IcyDock not mounted Bitspower fittings not collared, in the middle of the middle of the building madness right now. 

Just finished drilling a couple of passthrough holes, step drill bits and a rat tail file...

Don't want to make anyone mad, but didn't want to start a build log, still wanted to share my progress. Don't anyone get mad, I know it's the wrong darn thread.

Hoping cstkl1 and Nizzen and geriatricpollywog like it. 

Water-cooled typewriter build.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Rocket Lake 11600K custom AIO (no res) build in progress. Water-cooled typewriter build.
> 
> Sorry, everything is not bolted down IcyDock not mounted Bitspower fittings not collared, in the middle of the middle of the building madness right now.
> 
> Just finished drilling a couple of passthrough holes, step drill bits and a rat tail file...
> 
> Don't want to make anyone mad, but didn't want to start a build log, still wanted to share my progress. Don't anyone get mad, I know it's the wrong darn thread.
> 
> Hoping cstkl1 and Nizzen and geriatricpollywog like it.
> 
> View attachment 2547331
> 
> View attachment 2547332
> 
> View attachment 2547333
> 
> View attachment 2547334
> 
> View attachment 2547335
> 
> View attachment 2547336


That looks sick! Where did you hide the pump? It would look even cooler with Koolance QD3s on the CPU block and a metal top.


----------



## WebsterRKL

delete.


----------



## WebsterRKL

delete.


----------



## WebsterRKL

delete.


----------



## sharkcohen

sharkcohen said:


> Hi all, I've got an 11900K with an Asus TUF z590 and Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 that I have been playing with. I use this system for gaming. It also currently has 8x4 G.Skill Ripjaw C16 3200 ram, and I'm considering upgrading to some 16x2 C14 3600 and then playing with memory overclocking, which I have no experience with.
> 
> I've got it up to 5.1 all core (and 5.4 on the two favored cores). Here's how things look in hwinfo after 30 minutes of Prime95 small no AVX. I've thrown OCCT at it, Prime95, 3DMark stress tests, 20 loops of Metro Exodus Enhanced benchmark, and it has shown no instability. How does it look? What else can I show you? Thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 2544418


Still hoping for some input/feedback/help. I've thought about syncing all cores and doing manual voltage, but I don't know where to start on the voltage.


----------



## Geekounet

sharkcohen said:


> Still hoping for some input/feedback/help. I've thought about syncing all cores and doing manual voltage, but I don't know where to start on the voltage.


I've been always starting manual voltage with 1.285 for 5ghz, i don't remember exactly where i got this "starting point" but probably on a tech youtube channel


----------



## Solohuman

sharkcohen said:


> Still hoping for some input/feedback/help. I've thought about syncing all cores and doing manual voltage, but I don't know where to start on the voltage.


That's an old version of HWiNFO, are those values the same with version 7.20?
The CPU enhanced tab needs to be expanded & view the CPU package values cause' they are the most reliable. Don't take my word for it, if tool tips have not been disabled, moving the mouse over it & the app will tell you that.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hi All,

I am currently running 11900K SP50 which runs 5.3ghz quite easily at 45 cache, with a APEX z590 board .trying to increase the cache ratio to 46 or 47, which voltages need adjusting specifically to help stabilize the cache.
Voltages are all on auto with the exception of vcore and dram voltage.

Thank you


----------



## Lare111

What is the safe VCCIO2 Mem OC voltage for 24/7 usage? I used to think that 1.25V is very safe and 1.35V is the maximum daily voltage but I've read that Rocket Lake tolerates more. 

I need at least 1.32V to reach 3600Mhz in Gear 1 mode on my i7-11700F. If I somehow manage to reach Windows with lower voltage, all memory tests are stable. Even at 1.2V VCCIO2. But rebooting the PC and going through memory training fails. Cold boots are the worst even with DRAM training voltage boost enabled.


----------



## sharkcohen

Solohuman said:


> That's an old version of HWiNFO, are those values the same with version 7.20?
> The CPU enhanced tab needs to be expanded & view the CPU package values cause' they are the most reliable. Don't take my word for it, if tool tips have not been disabled, moving the mouse over it & the app will tell you that.


Thanks, I thought I had the enhanced tab open on that screenshot, I’ll include it in the future.


----------



## sharkcohen

A question on memory overlocking. I've just started playing with memory and my 11900K. I'm curious how high it will run in gear 1. It will boot 3866 in gear 1, but 4000 in gear 2. Will adjusting voltages or timings help in trying to get 4000 into gear 1, or does it just mean it won't do 4000 in gear 1?


----------



## Arni90

sharkcohen said:


> A question on memory overlocking. I've just started playing with memory and my 11900K. I'm curious how high it will run in gear 1. It will boot 3866 in gear 1, but 4000 in gear 2. Will adjusting voltages or timings help in trying to get 4000 into gear 1, or does it just mean it won't do 4000 in gear 1?


Gear 1 frequency is heavily dependent on VCCSA and CPU temperature. VCCSA generally scales up to 1.50V or so on ambient cooling, but even just 10C lower can push you from 3900 to 3950.


----------



## sharkcohen

Arni90 said:


> Gear 1 frequency is heavily dependent on VCCSA and CPU temperature. VCCSA generally scales up to 1.50V or so on ambient cooling, but even just 10C lower can push you from 3900 to 3950.


Thank you.


----------



## sharkcohen

I tested how high I could get the memory in gear 1 by starting at 3600 and then slowly raising the BCLK. I gave DRAM 1.6V, VCCSA 1.5V, and VCCIO 1.4V. Once it hit 3950 it wouldn’t post anymore. I tried raising VCCSA a little more but that didn’t help, and I’m not sure how high I should go on VCCSA so I stopped. Then I put BCLK back to 100 and tried to boot 3900, but that also wouldn’t post. 3866 will boot, so I think it’s the best I will be able to get provided it’s stable.

The memory is Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600.


----------



## Arni90

You need to use the 133:100 multiplier ratios above DDR4-2800 in gear 1, or DDR4-5600 in gear 2, there's an internal bottleneck in the clock generator on Rocket Lake


----------



## Solohuman

Yamcha2209 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am currently running 11900K SP50 which runs 5.3ghz quite easily at 45 cache, with a APEX z590 board .trying to increase the cache ratio to 46 or 47, which voltages need adjusting specifically to help stabilize the cache.
> Voltages are all on auto with the exception of vcore and dram voltage.
> 
> Thank you


It's been suggested in the past on this thread that Vcore stabilizes ring bus value.


----------



## maxmw

I have a question around the maximum safe vcore voltage for a 11700k. (By safe I mean without frying or very quickly degrading the chip).

I remember with older chips such as the 9700k or the 10700k people recommended staying below 1.35v load vcore and around 1.45v idle vcore but from I have read this seems to have changed for 11th gen.

Having googled this I have found some mixed information with some people say don't worry about the vcore keep raising it until you can't cool it anymore, and some people still saying stick to under 1.45V under load.

So I guess my question is what is the maximum safe vcore under load for a 11700k? Is there a safe idle vcore I should try stick to, or does the idle vcore not matter?


----------



## mkimbro

Any word on the ASUS Maximus XIII Hero Bios update 1301?
Looks like Asus has build a new Bios for the other ROG motherboards, but for some reason skipped the XIII Hero ........ 
I am still having voltage issues with my i9-11900KF CPU, that the Bios wants to give it 1.700 volts⚡🥴. The only thing I've been able to do or know how, is set the voltage manually to 1.46, but all the other programs i.e., HWMonitor, Aida64, CPU-Z show 1.630.

Was hoping a new bios might fix.


----------



## Groove2013

Installed BIOS 1301 on my Apex Z590, instead of 1202, using USB BIOS Flashback and the microcode in the BIOS is still same, 50, even after flashing BIOS 1301 again, this time from within the BIOS, BIOS microcode is 50, like in BIOS 1202.







































































































































































































































































































































































































Don't know


----------



## bscool

edit


----------



## ALSTER868

Groove2013 said:


> Installed BIOS 1301 on my Apex Z590


And? Any changes compared to 1202 you could tell about?


----------



## Groove2013

ALSTER868 said:


> And? Any changes compared to 1202 you could tell about?


Could check until now - no time.


----------



## sdmf74

mkimbro said:


> I am still having voltage issues with my i9-11900KF CPU, that the Bios wants to give it 1.700 volts⚡🥴. The only thing I've been able to do or know how, is set the voltage manually to 1.46, but all the other programs i.e., HWMonitor, Aida64, CPU-Z show 1.630.
> 
> Was hoping a new bios might fix.


So I have a 13 hero & I have posted this question various places for months, even here I believe a while ago but without any replies. In a forum somebody said that if you use an AVX offset you wont get voltage overshoot but I tested it and HWinfo64 still shows a max voltage of 1.625v with an AVX2/AVX512 of 2/3. This is with adaptive voltage set to 1.5v. AIDA64 shows this easily, if you simply run a memory benchmark the voltage will shoot up almost immediately.

Im currently in the middle of redoing all my overclocks for bios 1301 but this time Im trying to lower the voltage of the last few V/F points rather than just setting an adaptive voltage for the whole curve. I have a couple questions though if anyone here can help?

*[1st question]* - I thought I read that there is two ways you can set a V/F curve offset overclcock. Maybe someone can tell me which is correct or if Im still missing something?
* A. *By setting it to ADAPTIVE mode & setting an adaptive voltage & then setting - or + offsets along the curve
*B. *By setting it to AUTO mode and NOT setting a voltage & again setting - or + offsets along the curve.

I tried both options with a 52x all core overclock & the B option did not work. It seemed to have ignored my V/F curve - offsets & the vcore was higher at idle & load. I 
believe I even had a WHEA boot error in event viewer with option B.
NOTE: When I used option A I just set my adaptive voltage to 1.468v (since that is the same voltage as my V/F point 7 52x voltage in the bios). I left the V/F point 8 53x offset blank since this is a 52x overclock. It seemed to work fine & past 4 hours of realbench.
Is this the correct way of doing a VF curve overclock? Btw I was able to significantly reduce my offsets of VF point 6 & 7 by entering -.060 & .-070.



*[2nd question]* - (Hypothetical overclock) If im trying for a *55x max. by core OC* and I set the adaptive voltage to 1.55v and I set +0.050 for VF point 8 & leave all the other v/f points 1-7 alone.
it will follow the preprogrammed VF curve up to 52x Vf point 7 but what about ratios 53x and 54x?
Do they recieve 1.55v? Or does it interpolate a lower voltage for ratios 53x & 54x to something in between 1.468v (52x vf point 7) and 1.60v?


----------



## WebsterRKL

This is for bscool, and Nizzen, and geriatricpollywog, I really hope you guys like it. So sorry to interrupt, please don't anyone be mad. 

The most beautiful 24pin just arrived from Titan Rig and she crazy thicc. 

Intel Rocket Lake - silent water-cooled typewriter build.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> The most beautiful 24pin just arrived from Titan Rig and she crazy thicc.


@WebsterRKL likes his cables like he likes his ladies.


----------



## WebsterRKL

geriatricpollywog said:


> @WebsterRKL likes his cables like he likes his ladies.


You are the BEST of OCN bro!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> You are the BEST of OCN bro!


I
I’m more of a deplorable but I’ll take it.


----------



## WebsterRKL

geriatricpollywog said:


> I
> I’m more of a deplorable but I’ll take it.


You Da Best! 

I got one more 8pin custom cable to add to the Apex.


----------



## Groove2013

@shamino1978 setting/capping/limiting max auto voltages doesn't work on Apex Z590, for any of the voltages in BIOS 1202 and 1301.
One can set any voltage value for any of the voltages listed, for example VCore, and it still won't limit very high auto voltages, at all.


----------



## sdmf74

sdmf74 said:


> Im currently in the middle of redoing all my overclocks for bios 1301 but this time Im trying to lower the voltage of the last few V/F points rather than just setting an adaptive voltage & relying on the pre-programmed VF curve. I have a couple questions though if anyone here can help?
> 
> *[1st question]* - I thought I read that there is two ways you can set a V/F curve offset overclcock. Maybe someone can tell me which is correct or if Im still missing something?
> * A. *By setting it to ADAPTIVE mode & setting an adaptive voltage & then setting - or + offsets along the curve
> *B. *By setting it to AUTO mode and NOT setting a voltage & again setting - or + offsets along the curve.
> 
> I tried both options with a 52x all core overclock & the B option did not work. It seemed to have ignored my V/F curve - offsets & the vcore was higher at idle & load. I
> believe I even had a WHEA boot error in event viewer with option B.
> NOTE: When I used option A I just set my adaptive voltage to 1.468v (since that is the same voltage as my V/F point 7 52x voltage in the bios). I left the V/F point 8 53x offset at Auto since this is a 52x overclock. It seemed to work fine & past 4 hours of realbench.
> Is this the correct way of doing a VF curve overclock? Btw I was able to significantly reduce my offsets of VF point 6 & 7 by entering -.060 & .-070.
> 
> 
> 
> *[2nd question]* - (Hypothetical overclock) If im trying for a *55x max. by core OC* and I set the adaptive voltage to 1.55v and I set +0.050 for VF point 8 & leave all the other v/f points 1-7 alone.
> it will follow the preprogrammed VF curve up to 52x Vf point 7 but what about ratios 53x and 54x?
> Do they recieve 1.55v? Or does it interpolate a lower voltage for ratios 53x & 54x to something in between 1.468v (52x vf point 7) and 1.60v?


So nobody wants to tackle either one of my questions?

I realize this is a dying thread which is unfortunate but I know there are some knowledgable & experienced 11th gen overclockers here


----------



## sharkcohen

sdmf74 said:


> So nobody wants to tackle either one of my questions?
> 
> I realize this is a dying thread which is unfortunate but I know there are some knowledgable & experienced 11th gen overclockers here


To answer your second question, 53 and 54 will be interpolated.


----------



## Geekounet

New EVGA AIO + Bequiet! (140mm & 120mm) triple sets fans incoming, it will get me back to the OC scene


----------



## sdmf74

sharkcohen said:


> To answer your second question, 53 and 54 will be interpolated.


Yeah I gathered that much


----------



## WebsterRKL

See you Most Amazing Gents at Raptor Lake. 

And I'm gonna kick your royal butts with my 13900KS. 

lololol


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Arni90 said:


> I just set 1.65V on memory to see how high I could boot, 4533 booted, but wasn't remotely stable, so I went back to 4266 to see if I could get something bench-stable. *The sticks are watercooled*, so it's not like I'll meet the typical temperature issues B-die users typically get at 1.65V
> And it's dual rank B-die, which doesn't clock all that high.
> 
> I think I set 1.3V VCCSA and 1.4V VCCIO MemOC, going 1.45/1.55 didn't help stability for 4533. Again I didn't really bother trying to minimize voltage, I just picked values slightly higher than what booted on auto settings (4266) to see if I could push higher.
> 
> EDIT:
> 17K in Cinebench R23!
> And 370W Package power 🔥
> 
> I now see my system time is off, but I have to get myself some dinner now!
> 
> View attachment 2485115


Trying to find a water block for 2 sticks for my apex board. Cant find anything other the a x4 dimm blocks. Anyone know of any x2 dimm blocks still being made?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

So im going to be putting an 11900k/apex xiii in my system. Was going to go with 12900k but not all that impressed. But I'm bored with my 9900k and want something i can play with more ram overclocking. My maximus X board wasn't great at that. Just wondering what the average sp# is for most people also what the highest seen on here? Ill play around with this board till we see better ram clocks/latency and stability coming with the next 13000 series before i do a full new from the ground up pc build.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Cant get much worse sp50 before updating bios sp45 after.

Should i rma it? Doing 52 all core with 53 on best cores at 1.39v to start. Seems ok at 75-80c


----------



## ALSTER868

Taint3dBulge said:


> Cant get much worse sp50 before updating bios sp45 after.


Same SP50 there and OC results, so I wouldn't RMA it as there is little point in it. Have you tried its IMC to see what it is capable of? A decent mem OC is more important than going beyond 5200-5300 MHz.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

ALSTER868 said:


> Same SP50 there and OC results, so I wouldn't RMA it as there is little point in it. Have you tried its IMC to see what it is capable of? A decent mem OC is more important than going beyond 5200-5300 MHz.


Just started playing with it last night. Just doing stock xmp while i figure out what runs good for cpu and next ill get my cache tuned in then ill try my ram. I have 2x16 gskill 4000 19-19-19-39. I know they can clock ro 17-17-17-35 (they were able to on my apex X board anyway). Might start there, then go gear1 and do 3733 and try for 15-16-16-35. Or would you suggest trying 4400 at cl19 gear2? I. Going to give it till Friday to figure out if this is a crap chip or not. Temps seem fine though.


----------



## ALSTER868

Taint3dBulge said:


> Just started playing with it last night. Just doing stock xmp while i figure out what runs good for cpu and next ill get my cache tuned in then ill try my ram. I have 2x16 gskill 4000 19-19-19-39. I know they can clock ro 17-17-17-35 (they were able to on my apex X board anyway). Might start there, then go gear1 and do 3766 and try for 15-16-16-35. Or would you suggest trying 4400 at cl19 gear2? I. Going to give it till Friday to figure out if this is a crap chip or not. Temps seem fine though.


Not a bad RAM kit, so it could be capable of 4400 17-17-17-36-1T in Gear 2 or better still 3866 14(15)-15-15, at least 3733 14-14-14-32-2T or even 13-14 in Gear 1, try it.
I have also a G.Skill b-die kit and it clocks like that. But you might need extra cooling on your sticks, mine are pretty hot during stress tests or even gaming.


----------



## bscool

On 11th gen most go by how the IMC is for gear 1. Takes a good imc to do 3866+ in gear 1. I had 3 11900k and only on can do 3866+ and it is the lowest SP of 45 on latest bios. 

Highest sp I had was 85 and it is the worste IMC as 3733 took a lot voltage to run gear 1.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Noticed im taking a good hit in performance over my 9900k 5ghz. Got the 11900k at 5.2 all core bit am getting 25fps less in most games and some major .01% hits 50fps under. Any ideas?


----------



## bscool

Taint3dBulge said:


> Noticed im taking a good hit in performance over my 9900k 5ghz. Got the 11900k at 5.2 all core bit am getting 25fps less in most games and some major .01% hits 50fps under. Any ideas?


What is memory running at on z590? If in gear 2 that could be part of it.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

bscool said:


> On 11th gen most go by how the IMC is for gear 1. Takes a good imc to do 3866+ in gear 1. I had 3 11900k and only on can do 3866+ and it is the lowest SP of 45 on latest bios.
> 
> Highest sp I had was 85 and it is the worste IMC as 3733 took a lot voltage to run gear 1.


Ah, good to know. This cpu doesn't seem like a bad clocker. 5.2 all core with 5.3 on the 2 good cores and 45 cache so far. In the mid 70s to mid 80s under stress tests. Got a fan over my ram so thats the next thing im going to tinker with. Just cant figure out why my games are performing worse. 70% gpu utilization 20-50% cpu depending on game.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

bscool said:


> What is memory running at on z590? If in gear 2 that could be part of it.


 Xmp1 gear 2 for right now. At 19-19-19-39 t2


----------



## Taint3dBulge

That was easy so far 3733 G1 16-16-36 booted right up. Will get the timings tighter. Gonna test a game quick. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Arni90

Taint3dBulge said:


> Ah, good to know. This cpu doesn't seem like a bad clocker. 5.2 all core with 5.3 on the 2 good cores and 45 cache so far. In the mid 70s to mid 80s under stress tests. Got a fan over my ram so thats the next thing im going to tinker with. Just cant figure out why my games are performing worse. 70% gpu utilization 20-50% cpu depending on game.


Some games will simply run slower on Rocket Lake than they did on Coffee/Comet Lake. The gains from memory overclocking are still there, but not as big as on previous platforms either (probably due to the improved architecture).

Rocket Lake was loads of fun from a benchmarking perspective, it's an absolute beast at GPUPI, SuperPI, PYPrime, and DDR4 frequency.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Arni90 said:


> Some games will simply run slower on Rocket Lake than they did on Coffee/Comet Lake. The gains from memory overclocking are still there, but not as big as on previous platforms either (probably due to the improved architecture).
> 
> Rocket Lake was loads of fun from a benchmarking perspective, it's an absolute beast at GPUPI, SuperPI, PYPrime, and DDR4 frequency.


Aaahaaaa disabled full screen optimization in bf2042 now im back to 150fps. I was stuck at 100 with lots of dips. Wonder if it was another win11 update that messed something up. Also down to 15-15-36 2T at 1.4v. absolutely no problem. I might have to try 3866. Also get from 2T to 1T. Not looking forward to learning about sub timings. Never went any further then messing with row refresh timing in my 9900k setup. That cpu and the apex 10 just didn't like overclocking mem much.


----------



## bscool

'


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Baah, runing ada64 or occt extreme and everything seems ok at mid to higher 80s at 5.2 1.39v but R23 it hits 100 fast, thats with a -2avx. Only way i can get it to run and not thermal throttle is go down to 5.1 @1.36v. what do you guys run LLC at? Myn is at 8 so there is zero droop. Also 4266 at 17-17-36 2t 370, 4400 im trying tomorrow. Gonna have to read more pages to see what voltages to tweak more.


----------



## sdmf74

Taint3dBulge said:


> Baah, runing ada64 or occt extreme and everything seems ok at mid to higher 80s at 5.2 1.39v but R23 it hits 100 fast, thats with a -2avx. Only way i can get it to run and not thermal throttle is go down to 5.1 @1.36v. what do you guys run LLC at? Myn is at 8 so there is zero droop. Also 4266 at 17-17-36 2t 370, 4400 im trying tomorrow. Gonna have to read more pages to see what voltages to tweak more.


Can you pass 10 runs of Intel Burn Test on standard? or does it show instability? Im not sure why you are thermal throttling on CBR23 especially w/ -2 AVX offset!, it looks like you have a custom loop? Are you sure your voltage is 1.39V? How are you setting your voltage cause if you are just typing in 1.39v it is being ignored. The cpu will follow the pre-programmed VF curve for VF point 7 or any overclock under the maximum boost ratio. It is different on every cpu but yours is probably around 1.46v ish.
Also is this your APEX you are talking about, if so why are you using LLC8! Their is a reason why your bios says to use LLC4, maybe 3 or 5 would be ok but dont use LLC8.

Here is a SS of CBR23 I ran just now on my Hero, you can see my max package temp is 74c. This is with a 53x7 52x8 overclock at 1.498v with 0 AVX Offset.









BTW you should prolly update your signature....wait wth happened to my signature its gone! lol. nvrmnd I had to redo my sig.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I was running the 10 min test on r23. AIDA64 it was passing just fine for 30 min along with occt. The only reason i was using llc8 is because i bought the board used and the previous owner had it set that way for his "daily settings" so was just trying it out i guess.

to get 5.2ghz stable with -3 offset i need 1.515v at llc6 or its insta crash. Also what is "Temp 2" under the Motherboard/CPU temp that reads 100+C all the time, what is that?


----------



## sdmf74

You didnt answer any of my questions but anyway just use LLC4! or LLC5 at the most. Vdroop is a good thing. With LLC 8 you are getting very high voltages under load & that is not necessary & could be dangerous. Asus recommends LLC4 for a reason & one of those reasons is because LLC4 has the best transient response & characteristics in terms of voltage droop, Users like yourself that have an Apex or extreme board have the ablity to use the Vlatch feature. Skatterbencher has tested it extensively & he also proves that LLC4 is best with his testing. He has an article that explains the vlatch feature, you can read his article & watch his video here. https://skatterbencher.com/asus-vlatch/

As Buildzoid and GN puts it "LLC can also be dangerous to the life of the CPU if used carelessly" Here is a video explaining vdroop, please watch it to the end!!!





Also if your hitting 95c in just cinebench r23 (especially with an AVX offset) than something is seriously wrong, maybe redo your thermal paste or something. What mode of overclocking are you using? Manual, adaptive, or Auto? If not Auto Are you just setting a vcore in the bios or using VF point offsets?

If you look at my SS I do not have a Temp2, looks like you may be using an ancient version of HWinfo64 or something, does AISUITEIII show 100+c temps in any of its temperature readouts? It could be a glitch but I would suggest you make sure your bios version is 1402 or whatever the newest bios is for your motherboard & make sure your using V7.22 of HWinfo64.

Im no expert on vdroop but I posed a question here recently asking if anyone could explain why Im getting voltage overshoot on my 11900K & of course nobody could explain it, that being said this thread is all but dead which is unfortunate because there was very knowledable members here when this thread first began. As time has gone by I have noticed something very important. My cpu is hitting those momentary high voltages ONLY during the startup of a program like AIDA64 & 3dmark. I have also asked others (several times) in a few different forums to do a simple test for me but didnt get ANY help there either,* maybe you can do so?* *I would be especally interested to see if you are experiencing the same issue as me & possibly even worse with your extreme LLC settings?*

While trying to find information about what could be causing my momentary voltage overshoot I came across a thread on reddit by a guy called Noreng. I believe he may be associated with or work for Asus but im not positive, anyway I found this reply he made to a member over a year ago inquiring about vdroop quite interesting & I believe it applies to our conversation as well. He states the following:

"The voltage will spike up or down whenever a CPU starts or stops working. Similar to how you can't stop or start moving instantly, a VRM can't adjust it's output instantly. _A modern multicore CPU can start and stop several million times each second_, and the power draw can go from 200W to 20W in a matter of nanoseconds.
If the voltage rises during load, what happens if the load stops suddenly? A massive voltage overshoot, which can potentially cause damage to the CPU (but it's highly unlikely with ambient cooling). With an excessively droopy loadline like LLC1, the overshoot is often _lower_ than the idle VCore, requiring the VRM to increase voltage when idle.
*LLC4 or 5 typically has the best characteristics in terms of overshoot and undershoot, which is why they are recommended."*

I found this interesting as it may partially describe what is happening when my voltage spikes to over 1.6v as im opening a program but stays at or below 1.5v at idle & much lower when at load.

If you would simply open HWinfo64 and reset the values, then start an AIDA64 memory benchmark (its free with asus motherboards) & take a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing the max vcore column after the test has finished please? I am interested to what your voltage has spiked up to as the benchmark is opening. You can do the same exact test with 3dmark, I believe the test was cpu profile benchmark. As that benchmark is opening up my vcore is spiking up to 1.607v. When AIDA64 memory benchmark starts up I get 1.607v as well & have noticed it at 1.634v other times. I have tried just about every bios setting that I suspected might help to no avail....well except for a manual overclock as I do not plan on using manaul vcore.


----------



## Arni90

sdmf74 said:


> While trying to find information about what could be causing my momentary voltage overshoot I came across a thread on reddit by a guy called Noreng. I believe he may be associated with or work for Asus but im not positive.


I don't work with or for ASUS in any way, shape or form. In fact, I've recently criticized ASUS for their poor quality control regarding the Z690 Apex.



sdmf74 said:


> If you would simply open HWinfo64 and reset the values, then start an AIDA64 memory benchmark (its free with asus motherboards) & take a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing the max vcore column after the test has finished please? I am interested to what your voltage has spiked up to as the benchmark is opening. You can do the same exact test with 3dmark, I believe the test was cpu profile benchmark. As that benchmark is opening up my vcore is spiking up to 1.607v. When AIDA64 memory benchmark starts up I get 1.607v as well & have noticed it at 1.625v other times. I think the spike was even higher like 1.634v before I began using VF curve offset adjustments. I have tried just about every bios setting that I suspected might help to no avail....well except for a manual overclock as I do not plan on using manaul vcore.


The Super-I/O chip is incapable of detecting the overshoots from a transient load. What you're seeing is the CPU boosting up to it's preprogrammed V/F point, then the loadline applying and lowering voltage under load.

If you want to see the true spikes, you need to either enable VLATCH and monitor the results, or measure directly on the CPU die using a multimeter. In your case, you'd likely see spikes well above 1.65V


----------



## sdmf74

Arni90 said:


> I don't work with or for ASUS in any way, shape or form. In fact, I've recently criticized ASUS for their poor quality control regarding the Z690 Apex.
> 
> The Super-I/O chip is incapable of detecting the overshoots from a transient load. What you're seeing is the CPU boosting up to it's preprogrammed V/F point, then the loadline applying and lowering voltage under load.
> 
> If you want to see the true spikes, you need to either enable VLATCH and monitor the results, or measure directly on the CPU die using a multimeter. In your case, you'd likely see spikes well above 1.65V


Oh so you are Noreng on other forums? My apologies I dont know what made me think you had affiliations with Asus, perhaps I confused you with someone else.

So this would occur even when using a negative offset on VF points 6, 7 & 8?

vlatch is not available on the M13Hero. I was under the impression that die sense was nearly identical to taking measurements from the back of the cpu socket w/ a DMM or is that what you meant by the super I/O chip not being fast enough to keep up with transient loads?
So these transient spikes are normal and not likely to cause any harm because they are so momentary correct?


----------



## Arni90

sdmf74 said:


> Oh so you are Noreng on other forums? My apologies I dont know what made me think you had affiliations with Asus, perhaps I confused you with someone else.
> 
> So this would occur even when using a negative offset on VF points 6, 7 & 8?
> 
> vlatch is not available on the M13Hero. I was under the impression that die sense was nearly identical to taking measurements from the back of the cpu socket w/ a DMM or is that what you meant by the super I/O chip not being fast enough to keep up with transient loads?
> So these transient spikes are normal and not likely to cause any harm because they are so momentary correct?


The "overshoot" (it's not overshoot) would occur with lower offset voltages, it's simply a result of what the CPU requests at high clock speeds before any kind of droop kicks in. Think 5.3 GHz with no load.

Die sense is similar to measuring on the CPU die, but it will still not pick up on transients. To measure transient loads you need faster equipment


----------



## Taint3dBulge

sdmf74 said:


> You didnt answer any of my questions but anyway just use LLC4! or LLC5 at the most. Vdroop is a good thing. With LLC 8 you are getting very high voltages under load & that is not necessary & could be dangerous. Asus recommends LLC4 for a reason & one of those reasons is because LLC4 has the best transient response & characteristics in terms of voltage droop, Users like yourself that have an Apex or extreme board have the ablity to use the Vlatch feature. Skatterbencher has tested it extensively & he also proves that LLC4 is best with his testing. He has an article that explains the vlatch feature, you can read his article & watch his video here. https://skatterbencher.com/asus-vlatch/
> 
> As Buildzoid and GN puts it "LLC can also be dangerous to the life of the CPU if used carelessly" Here is a video explaining vdroop, please watch it to the end!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if your hitting 95c in just cinebench r23 (especially with an AVX offset) than something is seriously wrong, maybe redo your thermal paste or something. What mode of overclocking are you using? Manual, adaptive, or Auto? If not Auto Are you just setting a vcore in the bios or using VF point offsets?
> 
> If you look at my SS I do not have a Temp2, looks like you may be using an ancient version of HWinfo64 or something, does AISUITEIII show 100+c temps in any of its temperature readouts? It could be a glitch but I would suggest you make sure your bios version is 1402 or whatever the newest bios is for your motherboard & make sure your using V7.22 of HWinfo64.
> 
> Im no expert on vdroop but I posed a question here recently asking if anyone could explain why Im getting voltage overshoot on my 11900K & of course nobody could explain it, that being said this thread is all but dead which is unfortunate because there was very knowledable members here when this thread first began. As time has gone by I have noticed something very important. My cpu is hitting those momentary high voltages ONLY during the startup of a program like AIDA64 & 3dmark. I have also asked others (several times) in a few different forums to do a simple test for me but didnt get ANY help there either,* maybe you can do so?* *I would be especally interested to see if you are experiencing the same issue as me & possibly even worse with your extreme LLC settings?*
> 
> While trying to find information about what could be causing my momentary voltage overshoot I came across a thread on reddit by a guy called Noreng. I believe he may be associated with or work for Asus but im not positive, anyway I found this reply he made to a member over a year ago inquiring about vdroop quite interesting & I believe it applies to our conversation as well. He states the following:
> 
> "The voltage will spike up or down whenever a CPU starts or stops working. Similar to how you can't stop or start moving instantly, a VRM can't adjust it's output instantly. _A modern multicore CPU can start and stop several million times each second_, and the power draw can go from 200W to 20W in a matter of nanoseconds.
> If the voltage rises during load, what happens if the load stops suddenly? A massive voltage overshoot, which can potentially cause damage to the CPU (but it's highly unlikely with ambient cooling). With an excessively droopy loadline like LLC1, the overshoot is often _lower_ than the idle VCore, requiring the VRM to increase voltage when idle.
> *LLC4 or 5 typically has the best characteristics in terms of overshoot and undershoot, which is why they are recommended."*
> 
> I found this interesting as it may partially describe what is happening when my voltage spikes to over 1.6v as im opening a program but stays at or below 1.5v at idle & much lower when at load.
> 
> If you would simply open HWinfo64 and reset the values, then start an AIDA64 memory benchmark (its free with asus motherboards) & take a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing the max vcore column after the test has finished please? I am interested to what your voltage has spiked up to as the benchmark is opening. You can do the same exact test with 3dmark, I believe the test was cpu profile benchmark. As that benchmark is opening up my vcore is spiking up to 1.607v. When AIDA64 memory benchmark starts up I get 1.607v as well & have noticed it at 1.634v other times. I have tried just about every bios setting that I suspected might help to no avail....well except for a manual overclock as I do not plan on using manaul vcore.


Didn't try the burn test. I use occt. Using llc 4 or 5 i have to set voltage to 1.5v to get 5.1ghz all core stable. I think my chip is just bad, doing a return on it. When using llc8 if i have my votage set to 1.390 it would go to 1.412 highest.

Will have to run some other programs to figure out what that 100c temp is, or if its a glitch.

As far as llc goes i know you dont want to use max level ofc, but it was the only way to get the chip to run all core without having to run massssive voltage. I guess im not comfortable running it past 1.45 anyways.

Running everything in manual mode, can post bios screenshots if you need.

Also using latest version of bios, newest hwinfo.

Will have to check other temp programs to see if the 100c temp is a glitch or not. Did update to a beta version of hwinfo to see if that changed anything. It didn't.

As far as overshoot goes, i haven't seen anything higher then 1.53, when i was using 1.5v to test with llc5. Also forgot to add, iv reseated my waterblock several times (ek velocity 2 using Thermal Grizzly extreme paste, was going to try the TG liquid metal but since i returning it naaa) . It seemed to drop the temps by 2 C.

Oh, i forgot to mention VF points i havnt played with yet, set to auto for now.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Yup, TMPIN4 is staying 99c, so is AUXTIN0. I will try the ADIA 64 test and post those results in a bit too.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

sdmf74 said:


> If you would simply open HWinfo64 and reset the values, then start an AIDA64 memory benchmark (its free with asus motherboards) & take a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing the max vcore column after the test has finished please? I am interested to what your voltage has spiked up to as the benchmark is opening. You can do the same exact test with 3dmark, I believe the test was cpu profile benchmark. As that benchmark is opening up my vcore is spiking up to 1.607v. When AIDA64 memory benchmark starts up I get 1.607v as well & have noticed it at 1.634v other times. I have tried just about every bios setting that I suspected might help to no avail....well except for a manual overclock as I do not plan on using manaul vcore.


There ya go. I have llc7 at 1.416v core in bios seems to be the most stable setting for 5.1 with avx at 0 iirc. My temps are ok under this test.


----------



## OdyWillMakeIt

cstkl1 said:


> 11900k @sp 89
> M13A bios 0801
> 
> Gskill F4-4800c17d-16gvk
> 4800 [email protected]


Does this RAM have a temperature sensor? (F4-4800C17D-16GVK)
I thought Ripjaws V kits don't have one, but I see it in the screenshot.


----------



## cstkl1

OdyWillMakeIt said:


> Does this RAM have a temperature sensor? (F4-4800C17D-16GVK)
> I thought Ripjaws V kits don't have one, but I see it in the screenshot.


yes it does


----------



## Clausewitz

Has anyone tried 1402 on ASUS XIII Max?


----------



## Michal89

11700k delided, no problems at all, delid tool + oven, CPU temps in Cinebench R23 dropped from 90C to 75-80C max,
1.36v / 4.9GHz all cores, Noctua D15 1200RPM , Corsair 7000d
Total time of operation: 1 hour


----------



## Geekounet

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn my CPU is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo power hungry, i needed 1.420V fixed to be more or less stable @5GHZ, the good side is that my new CLC280 & new set of fans were able to handle it,my previous ML240L & fans weren't, for me it wasn't the silicon lottery but the silicon fu****y 😂🤣

Note: will try later with my KPX thermal paste here it was the "stock" paste


----------



## Geekounet

Michal89 said:


> 11700k delided, no problems at all, delid tool + oven, CPU temps in Cinebench R23 dropped from 90C to 75-80C max,
> 1.36v / 4.9GHz all cores, Noctua D15 1200RPM , Corsair 7000d
> Total time of operation: 1 hour


So you repasted under the IHS & used liquid metal between IHS & the cooler cold plate? which delid tool you used? do we need to use a special glue to replace the IHS?


----------



## Michal89

Geekounet said:


> So you repasted under the IHS & used liquid metal between IHS & the cooler cold plate? which delid tool you used? do we need to use a special glue to replace the IHS?


My IHS is not glued, copy of delid tool from der8auer for 7700k.
Before LM application I had to use 1.39v for stable 4.9GHz, now 1.36v is enough 
My CPU will do 5GHz all cores on... 1.46v. Bad unit for core OC but IMC is strong and can have RING cache at 4.8GHz with Gear 1 ddr 3600 CL 14 14 14 34.


----------



## Geekounet

Michal89 said:


> My IHS is not glued, copy of delid tool from der8auer for 7700k.
> Before LM application I had to use 1.39v for stable 4.9GHz, now 1.36v is enough
> My CPU will do 5GHz all cores on... 1.46v. Bad unit for core OC but IMC is strong and can have RING cache at 4.8GHz with Gear 1 ddr 3600 CL 14 14 14 34.


There's something to fix the IHS to the chip, a sort of silicon, you can see it on your picture, it's the black squared thingy & that's why you need the oven to melt it & open it...

How many time in the oven at which temp? i want to delid mine now 

EDIT: ML too between IHS & DIE?


----------



## Michal89

Just watch der8uer's 11900 delid on YT, I have scratched old glue from CPU, no need for any, socket keeps it in the place.

!d!ots, haha, waste of time this forum should be called.


----------



## Geekounet

Michal89 said:


> Just watch der8uer's 11900 delid on YT, I have scratched old glue from CPU, no need for any, socket keeps it in the place.
> 
> !d!ots, haha, waste of time this forum should be called.


So because i'm asking i'm an idiot? & if this forum is a waste of time why are you there?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Just got my new chip, not much better then the last sp50, but the imc seems really good.
Not to bad for just afew hour of OCing the chip and 30 min on the playing with gear 1 and gear 2. Think ill be tweaking this a bit more. Only played with afew timings. Still learning sub timings. Got lots to learn there. 












Also any advice to get to a CR of 1T would be great but cant quite get there.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Thought id add this too.


----------



## Geekounet

I've been able to go much lower on voltage by going one step further on the LLC from "Turbo" to "Extreme", now i need 1.290v on the two more demanding cores 0 & 2 & 1.270 on the other ones, temps staying below 85 full load, perfect for me even if i lost 1000pts on the cr23 score (same frequency but lower voltage) didn't knew the voltages had a role in benchmarks scores...


----------



## D-EJ915

Probably some phantom throttling is causing the low scores.


----------



## Geekounet

D-EJ915 said:


> Probably some phantom throttling is causing the low scores.


Never heard about this, gonna check it out except if you're trolling


----------



## D-EJ915

Geekounet said:


> Never heard about this, gonna check it out except if you're trolling


It was a thing on platforms with fivr like X299, it still works but you lose performance. Since you said all you did was lower voltages and your performance went down it seems like it's the case here too.


----------



## Geekounet

D-EJ915 said:


> It was a thing on platforms with fivr like X299, it still works but you lose performance. Since you said all you did was lower voltages and your performance went down it seems like it's the case here too.


Thanks bro, that what i've read, it's all started with X299, sorry for saying except if you were trolling, it's because of @Michal89 & some other trolls coming here lately


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Any consensus on gear 1 vs gear 2 for gaming, trying to get highest frames possible (would like to keep 240fps constant to keep up with my refresh rate) but also keep latencies super low. So far i can do gear 1 3866 15-15-36 2t / gear 2 4266 17-17-35 1t. Latencies drop from 49 to 43 going g2-g1. Cant notice a big difference though my mouse/keyboard feel a bit more responsive in games. I mostly play pubg so that lower latency is a must for getting that sniper shot off 1st lol. 

If i can get 4000mhz stable in gear 1 thats what ill do. But so far its blue screen entering windows. Im still to much a noob to figure out how to stabilize it.


----------



## D-EJ915

3733 c14 t1 and 4800 c19 t1 (luumi dark profile) are pretty similar in my experience but others might run things that work better with one more than the other.


----------



## Geekounet

Taint3dBulge said:


> Any consensus on gear 1 vs gear 2 for gaming, trying to get highest frames possible (would like to keep 240fps constant to keep up with my refresh rate) but also keep latencies super low. So far i can do gear 1 3866 15-15-36 2t / gear 2 4266 17-17-35 1t. Latencies drop from 49 to 43 going g2-g1. Cant notice a big difference though my mouse/keyboard feel a bit more responsive in games. I mostly play pubg so that lower latency is a must for getting that sniper shot off 1st lol.
> 
> If i can get 4000mhz stable in gear 1 thats what ill do. But so far its blue screen entering windows. Im still to much a noob to figure out how to stabilize it.


I've been told in this forum that gear1 was better for gaming


----------



## Nizzen

sdmf74 said:


> You didnt answer any of my questions but anyway just use LLC4! or LLC5 at the most. Vdroop is a good thing. With LLC 8 you are getting very high voltages under load & that is not necessary & could be dangerous. Asus recommends LLC4 for a reason & one of those reasons is because LLC4 has the best transient response & characteristics in terms of voltage droop, Users like yourself that have an Apex or extreme board have the ablity to use the Vlatch feature. Skatterbencher has tested it extensively & he also proves that LLC4 is best with his testing. He has an article that explains the vlatch feature, you can read his article & watch his video here. https://skatterbencher.com/asus-vlatch/
> 
> As Buildzoid and GN puts it "LLC can also be dangerous to the life of the CPU if used carelessly" Here is a video explaining vdroop, please watch it to the end!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if your hitting 95c in just cinebench r23 (especially with an AVX offset) than something is seriously wrong, maybe redo your thermal paste or something. What mode of overclocking are you using? Manual, adaptive, or Auto? If not Auto Are you just setting a vcore in the bios or using VF point offsets?
> 
> If you look at my SS I do not have a Temp2, looks like you may be using an ancient version of HWinfo64 or something, does AISUITEIII show 100+c temps in any of its temperature readouts? It could be a glitch but I would suggest you make sure your bios version is 1402 or whatever the newest bios is for your motherboard & make sure your using V7.22 of HWinfo64.
> 
> Im no expert on vdroop but I posed a question here recently asking if anyone could explain why Im getting voltage overshoot on my 11900K & of course nobody could explain it, that being said this thread is all but dead which is unfortunate because there was very knowledable members here when this thread first began. As time has gone by I have noticed something very important. My cpu is hitting those momentary high voltages ONLY during the startup of a program like AIDA64 & 3dmark. I have also asked others (several times) in a few different forums to do a simple test for me but didnt get ANY help there either,* maybe you can do so?* *I would be especally interested to see if you are experiencing the same issue as me & possibly even worse with your extreme LLC settings?*
> 
> While trying to find information about what could be causing my momentary voltage overshoot I came across a thread on reddit by a guy called Noreng. I believe he may be associated with or work for Asus but im not positive, anyway I found this reply he made to a member over a year ago inquiring about vdroop quite interesting & I believe it applies to our conversation as well. He states the following:
> 
> "The voltage will spike up or down whenever a CPU starts or stops working. Similar to how you can't stop or start moving instantly, a VRM can't adjust it's output instantly. _A modern multicore CPU can start and stop several million times each second_, and the power draw can go from 200W to 20W in a matter of nanoseconds.
> If the voltage rises during load, what happens if the load stops suddenly? A massive voltage overshoot, which can potentially cause damage to the CPU (but it's highly unlikely with ambient cooling). With an excessively droopy loadline like LLC1, the overshoot is often _lower_ than the idle VCore, requiring the VRM to increase voltage when idle.
> *LLC4 or 5 typically has the best characteristics in terms of overshoot and undershoot, which is why they are recommended."*
> 
> I found this interesting as it may partially describe what is happening when my voltage spikes to over 1.6v as im opening a program but stays at or below 1.5v at idle & much lower when at load.
> 
> If you would simply open HWinfo64 and reset the values, then start an AIDA64 memory benchmark (its free with asus motherboards) & take a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing the max vcore column after the test has finished please? I am interested to what your voltage has spiked up to as the benchmark is opening. You can do the same exact test with 3dmark, I believe the test was cpu profile benchmark. As that benchmark is opening up my vcore is spiking up to 1.607v. When AIDA64 memory benchmark starts up I get 1.607v as well & have noticed it at 1.634v other times. I have tried just about every bios setting that I suspected might help to no avail....well except for a manual overclock as I do not plan on using manaul vcore.


There is also a reason you can use llc8...
Ocn is the right place for LLC8


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I'd like to post a warning!
Be care when proceeding a critical update! Especially firmware / BIOS updates...

Keep in mind your Overclock could not be 100% stable, and it can fail during a critical update process, especially firmware updates. 

It doesn't matter if your CPU, Memory, under voltage or any other setting looks like stable for long time... 

If you are going to proceed a critical update, there is a chance of failure... and a failure at this point will be catastrophic and a possibility of a brick event is real.

I extremely recommend every time you are going to do a BIOS update or firmware update, save your settings, load a BIOS default and use standard CPU frequencies, voltages and memory clocks during the update process.

A fault at this time can brick your MB and CPU.

Adopt a good practice of saving your BIOS settings in a free slot and load Bios default before all hardware update.

If you have a dual BIOS MB, always load BIOS defaults before and after switching from one BIOs TO the other.
I know it's no a pleasure process, and take time... but The time you will spend to umbrick your MB or RMA is much long and painful...

I hope I'm helping you with this simple advice !

You are not a beta tester, and you're supposed to have fun overclocking...

Keep safe and alive....

High voltages ad high frequencies will not burn your hardware... High power and High temps will... and a overclock failure at a critical moment will brick your MB/CPU. 

Hope I can help with these simple advice.


----------



## sharkcohen

I have an Asus TUF z590 Gaming motherboard, and I tried playing with v/f offsets, but they aren’t doing anything. Have I missed something in how to use the v/f offsets, or could it be something with the TUF board that these settings don’t work?


----------



## Imprezzion

Just scored me a used 11900K + Maximus XIII Hero to replace the 5900X + B550-XE that has bothered me enough with AMD's terrible AGESA mess and fTPM stuttering..

It will be going under a full custom loop with a block I haven't bought yet as my current TechN block is AM4 only.

Which block, preferably also S1700 compatible, would you guys recommend? I will be pushing limits as always on my hardware so. Shooting for 5.2/5.3 ish all core with 32GB 4400C16 DR B-Die. 

I can delid if I have to. Prefer not to but if I have to I can.


----------



## D-EJ915

Imprezzion said:


> Just scored me a used 11900K + Maximus XIII Hero to replace the 5900X + B550-XE that has bothered me enough with AMD's terrible AGESA mess and fTPM stuttering..
> 
> It will be going under a full custom loop with a block I haven't bought yet as my current TechN block is AM4 only.
> 
> Which block, preferably also S1700 compatible, would you guys recommend? I will be pushing limits as always on my hardware so. Shooting for 5.2/5.3 ish all core with 32GB 4400C16 DR B-Die.
> 
> I can delid if I have to. Prefer not to but if I have to I can.


If you don't want to spend a lot the Alphacool Eisblock works fine and the backplate it comes with should work on 1700 too but you can email alphacool to verify.


----------



## Imprezzion

D-EJ915 said:


> If you don't want to spend a lot the Alphacool Eisblock works fine and the backplate it comes with should work on 1700 too but you can email alphacool to verify.


What has to be bought has to be bought. My 5900X, board and block which are barely 5 months old with invoices, warranty and all the boxes and accesoires will recoup most if not all the money I spent on the 11900K and the board so.

I was thinking of getting the Heatkiller IV Pro as a local water-cooling specialist shop has them in stock under €100 with the black acetal version being only like €65 on sale right now. Obviously it doesn't have RGB which in my rainbow barf build is kinda.. meh. But it's a top tier block as far as I know and it is rather cheap.

Right now I'm in between the Heatkiller IV Pro, EK Velocity D-RGB (1st version) or the Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge. The Heatkiller IV Pro is by far the cheapest one in stock but it lacks RGB. The Aurora Edge is the next cheapest and the Velocity is the most expensive one but I like the looks the most. The Velocity2 is unfortunately more then twice as expensive as are the Optimus blocks so that wouldn't be worth it for the small gain.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

The velocity 2 does a hell of a good job though. Doing 5.2ghz @ 1.515v on llc4 daily and under occt extreme it only gets to 88c after a 90 min run. Using thermal grizzly extreme, might just do liquid metal on the IHS. I dont plan on deliding this. Pretty much just bought it to play with while we wait for the 13900k to come out.


----------



## D-EJ915

Imprezzion said:


> What has to be bought has to be bought. My 5900X, board and block which are barely 5 months old with invoices, warranty and all the boxes and accesoires will recoup most if not all the money I spent on the 11900K and the board so.
> 
> I was thinking of getting the Heatkiller IV Pro as a local water-cooling specialist shop has them in stock under €100 with the black acetal version being only like €65 on sale right now. Obviously it doesn't have RGB which in my rainbow barf build is kinda.. meh. But it's a top tier block as far as I know and it is rather cheap.
> 
> Right now I'm in between the Heatkiller IV Pro, EK Velocity D-RGB (1st version) or the Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge. The Heatkiller IV Pro is by far the cheapest one in stock but it lacks RGB. The Aurora Edge is the next cheapest and the Velocity is the most expensive one but I like the looks the most. The Velocity2 is unfortunately more then twice as expensive as are the Optimus blocks so that wouldn't be worth it for the small gain.


Heatkiller is a really good block too, if it's cheaper I'd probably go for that.


----------



## Imprezzion

D-EJ915 said:


> Heatkiller is a really good block too, if it's cheaper I'd probably go for that.


I bought a "used" but never mounted EK Velocity D-RGB Nickel Plexi that someone had left over from a project I guess. Great price and it's local so should be here pretty quick. 

I'm curious to see how this CPU and board (Maximus XIII) compares to my "old" 10900KF + Z490 Ace. Especially since I'm going to be running the same RAM and I know what they did on the 10900KF, 4200 15-17-17-28-280-2T @ 1.63v or 4400 17-17-17-36-320-2T at 1.51v. 

Since this is an ASUS board it will probably have a SP value for the chip. What would be the higher end of a 11900K SP? I assume > 95?


----------



## D-EJ915

Honestly like it seems most 11900ks were like sp 50 lol.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I cant remember who, but it was said he tried 3 different cpus the lowest end sp50 had the best imc. I know myn is a sp50 but man it can clock ram well.


----------



## Imprezzion

Oof. And what kinda core OC can I expect on a sp50. Either allcore or with OCTVB? Then I know what to aim for. Recommended stress test for stability check? With AMD it's basically y-cruncher / Corecycler.


----------



## Groove2013

Mine is SP45, after all BIOS updates, but does 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2T gear 1 (2×16 GB).


----------



## Imprezzion

Groove2013 said:


> Mine is SP45, after all BIOS updates, but does 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2T gear 1 (2×16 GB).


But, you have a Apex, that will probably be much easier to achieve on a 2 DIMM board. I got a Hero. Gear 1 is probably not as easy on higher clocks on a 4 DIMM board.


----------



## Groove2013

@Imprezzion I've already seen people with a Strix board doing like 3866 MHz, if not 4000.
The most important is CPU IMC. Boards help only slightly/marginally.

If the IMC is garbage, no Apex will help you.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Groove2013 said:


> Mine is SP45, after all BIOS updates, but does 4000 MHz 14-15-15-15-234-2T gear 1 (2×16 GB).


Jeeez, what voltages are you running that at? I can do 3866 cl 15, but that was just doing a quick test. Still learning this board/cpu. My mem is gskil cl19 4000mgz 32gig. So nothing that great. But they are doing well.


----------



## Groove2013

@Taint3dBulge 1.59 V DRAM (BIOS), 1.12 V IO (BIOS) and 1.441 SA (BIOS).


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Wow, bet that gets toasty. I stop at ~ 1.5v / 1.1v /1.4v when testing. I mainly just test for daily use lol. Also side note, testing ram to get sub timings tuned is omg. Hours spent. Quite maddening to find out everything that was very stable is now not.


----------



## Imprezzion

Yyyyeah no.. I got my Maximus XIII Hero and the 11900K in today.. SP55 with 1.686v for 5.3... it's bottom of the barrel bad. Like.. 

I'll get to Windows and see what it does but this doesn't bode well. Lol.


----------



## D-EJ915

Imprezzion said:


> Yyyyeah no.. I got my Maximus XIII Hero and the 11900K in today.. SP55 with 1.686v for 5.3... it's bottom of the barrel bad. Like..
> 
> I'll get to Windows and see what it does but this doesn't bode well. Lol.


check the v/f curve chart. I can check mine when I get home from work.


----------



## Imprezzion

D-EJ915 said:


> check the v/f curve chart. I can check mine when I get home from work.


The board had BIOS 1007 loaded which is pretty old. Updated to the latest and let it train everything including cooler efficiency again across a few reboots.

It reads SP75 now.

In Windows it actually isn't horrible. Cinebench R23 5.1 all core passes at 1.23v, 5.2 all core at 1.32v, temps barely touched 70c. I did test 5.3 but the VF curve wasn't very happy at that point and yeeted ALL the volts (1.58x) so yeah. It reads 1.467v for 5.2 in the curve btw.

I'll probably do the same in the end as I did with my 10900KF when I still had that. Run a turbo ratio OC basically. 5.3 or maybe even 5.4 or more for 1 to 2 cores for the single threaded performance and then just set all core to whatever it can handle.

Might even attempt a per core OC. Core 4 and 5 are my preferred ones according to the BIOS.

EDIT: 5.2 all core it'll do quite easily. Been just playing some stuff and running some random benches and such and it holds up fine @ 5.2 1.368v so far.

I set a very agressive per core usage OC now. 55x2, 53x4 52x8. With LLC4 and AC/DC 0.01 this seems to work fine however it does give it way way way too much voltage even with the VF curve 7 and 8 at -0.1 and -0.2 respectively. Single threaded loads sees it boost to 5.5 nicely but also 1.554v.. I gotta learn how to adjust the boost voltages again on Intel. TVB and SVID is disabled fully btw. MCE enabled, the adaptive boost stuff disabled.


----------



## D-EJ915

I popped 2 of mine into my max 13 apex 1301 and got these, looks like yours is better than the one I have in my current rig too.

800 0.753 0.794
2500 0.867 0.851
3500 1.008 0.979
4300 1.144 1.119
4800 1.259 1.229
5100 1.418 1.393
5200 1.603 1.603
5300 1.653 1.653


----------



## Imprezzion

D-EJ915 said:


> I popped 2 of mine into my max 13 apex 1301 and got these, looks like yours is better than the one I have in my current rig too.
> 
> 800 0.753 0.794
> 2500 0.867 0.851
> 3500 1.008 0.979
> 4300 1.144 1.119
> 4800 1.259 1.229
> 5100 1.418 1.393
> 5200 1.603 1.603
> 5300 1.653 1.653


The second one is almost identical to mine up to 4800 but above that mine is a lot lower voltage. I don't have time now to play with it, gotta work and after that company dinner and bowling lel.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Below are some configuration suggestions for the 12900K:

LLC#1
DC_LL = 1.75
AC_LL = 0.60

LLC#2
DC_LL = 1.46
AC_LL = 0.46

LLC#3
DC_LL 1.1
AC_LL 0.25

LLC#4
DC_LL 0.98
AC_LL 0.20

Been using dc.98 and ac.20 for llc4. Seems to work well. Cant find any recommendations for 11900k. I know with the 9900k it was said to use .01 for ac/dc but was that number really factually correct.?





This is the best it seems i can do on gear 2, now time to tweak gear1. Just wonder how i can get my L2&L3 latencies down a bit.


----------



## Imprezzion

I will probably go gear 2 with mine. My RAM is tested on my old 10900KF build at 4400 17-17-17 with tight subtimings so if latency on gear 2 isn't too bad, and your 46.6ns is definitely not bad, I will stay with that. 

For testing yesterday I was just running XMP II 3600 16-16-16-36 gear 1 and that ran fine. I kinda hope I can pull off 3866/3900 gear 1 as that's where I can get the best timings for the frequency (14-15-15-28-252) but I don't have high hopes. 

Btw, what cache speed can I sort of safely run on a 11900K? Default was 4.1 but I know my 10900KF for example handled 4.7 just fine. I can just set a max and min clock for it right? 

I will try those AC/DC's and LLC values. My 10900K liked LLC5, AC 0.20 DC 0.70 the most. 

So far I have quite some trouble keeping the voltages reasonable. I'm using Auto vCore with LLC4 and AC/DC 0.01 just to get a baseline and it behaves fine up to 5.1 but 5.2 and 5.3 boost voltages to way way above 1.55v and even with a VF -0.200 at the VF#7 and VF#8 points it barely changes if at all.

I'll figure it out eventually lol. I'm not really used to ASUS BIOS either. Was mostly using MSI before (Z270 Gaming M5, Z390 and Z490 Ace).


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Imprezzion said:


> I will probably go gear 2 with mine. My RAM is tested on my old 10900KF build at 4400 17-17-17 with tight subtimings so if latency on gear 2 isn't too bad, and your 46.6ns is definitely not bad, I will stay with that.
> 
> For testing yesterday I was just running XMP II 3600 16-16-16-36 gear 1 and that ran fine. I kinda hope I can pull off 3866/3900 gear 1 as that's where I can get the best timings for the frequency (14-15-15-28-252) but I don't have high hopes.
> 
> Btw, what cache speed can I sort of safely run on a 11900K? Default was 4.1 but I know my 10900KF for example handled 4.7 just fine. I can just set a max and min clock for it right?
> 
> I will try those AC/DC's and LLC values. My 10900K liked LLC5, AC 0.20 DC 0.70 the most.
> 
> So far I have quite some trouble keeping the voltages reasonable. I'm using Auto vCore with LLC4 and AC/DC 0.01 just to get a baseline and it behaves fine up to 5.1 but 5.2 and 5.3 boost voltages to way way above 1.55v and even with a VF -0.200 at the VF#7 and VF#8 points it barely changes if at all.
> 
> I'll figure it out eventually lol. I'm not really used to ASUS BIOS either. Was mostly using MSI before (Z270 Gaming M5, Z390 and Z490 Ace).



From what iv read 45x cache is about max on these chips. I haven't tried anything higher. As far as voltages, these chips demand higher volts, but i think they are fine with running it. I have to use 1.5v to get 5.1ghz all core stable and 1.525v for 5.2ghz all core. Temps are fine. Mid to high 80s. As long as you run llc4 / 5. Anything llc higher even with lower vlotages and temps get out of hand. Under full load im sitting at ~1.34v. guess the best thing is just start skimming through all 300 pages lol. That's what iv been doing. Need to tinker with auto voltages and using vf. So much new stuff to learn coming from a z370 apex lol. But this is why i bought it. To mess around with for the next 6-12 months. Biggest thing is ram ocing is so easy.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> From what iv read 45x cache is about max on these chips. I haven't tried anything higher. As far as voltages, these chips demand higher volts, but i think they are fine with running it. I have to use 1.5v to get 5.1ghz all core stable and 1.525v for 5.2ghz all core. Temps are fine. Mid to high 80s. As long as you run llc4 / 5. Anything llc higher even with lower vlotages and temps get out of hand. Under full load im sitting at ~1.34v. guess the best thing is just start skimming through all 300 pages lol. That's what iv been doing. Need to tinker with auto voltages and using vf. So much new stuff to learn coming from a z370 apex lol. But this is why i bought it. To mess around with for the next 6-12 months. Biggest thing is ram ocing is so easy.


I went from a 10900KF to a 5900X just to try and play with AMD again and because a buddy needed a rig and I sold him my 10900KF setup but I still regret it lol. The 5900X is great, it's a powerhouse, and yes it does outperform a 11900K by quite a lot, even in gaming, but AMD has a lot of issues right now with unstable BIOS updates, overclocking locks in newer BIOS that limit OC even on unlocked chips to the point of being near useless, massive stuttering issues with Windows 11 fTPM, and so forth. I got fed up with the numerous problems AMD has and got this kit for a good deal used. But the guy never overclocked it so yeah, no idea what the chip can do.

From my short testing I did yesterday it can hold up 55x2, 53x4 52x8 just fine and is stable at 55 even looping Cinebench R23 single thread but voltage on LLC4 (die sense) is around 1.552v. Full load 5.2 1.368v. Temps high 70's in R23. Power draw is like, 296w.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

My chip is SP50


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Lol, running auto voltages at 5.2ghz and using llc4 I'm getting better temps then fixed volts at 5.1ghx. voltages never spike to more then 1.51v. so going to leave this for awhile to see if its just as stable. If its running cooler and faster why not right. I wonder if i could run adaptive auto. Any advantages to running adaptive? Or running strait auto do the same thing?


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Lol, running auto voltages at 5.2ghz and using llc4 I'm getting better temps then fixed volts at 5.1ghx. voltages never spike to more then 1.51v. so going to leave this for awhile to see if its just as stable. If its running cooler and faster why not right. I wonder if i could run adaptive auto. Any advantages to running adaptive? Or running strait auto do the same thing?


Straight Auto on Z490 was adaptive yes.
I tweaked some stuff and now I'm at 55x2 54x4 53x8 @ 1.456v load. Cinebench R23 multicore 165xx points. She's pulling 349w and sits in the upper 80's tho. That is a bit much if you ask me. Also single thread goes up to 1.552v. I am going to set up a V/F offset or a adaptive offset and see if it can do this at a lower base voltage.

EDIT: Nah 5.3 all core is a no go man. Even as high as 1.412v (-0.050 offset VF8) crashes immediately in CBR23. It aint good enough to do that all core under 1.44v ish and that is getting pretty high. Even tho I did run 5.3 @ 1.448v on my 10900KF as well. This gets hotter as it ain't delidded and that was.

EDIT2: looking good at 54x2 53x4 52x8 with VF offsets. 1.456v max single thread and 1.314v for 5.2 all core. I went lower, 1.290v, but that crashed pretty quickly. I might need more then 1.314v cause I'm still testing obviously but temps in CBR23 are great now. Low 70's.

Memory will do Gear 1 at 3600 but not higher. I set it to gear 2 @ 4533 17-18-18 for now for testing purposes to see if it boots properly. It does at SA 1.360v. 

This all seems pretty promising and despite the bad VF values and mediocre SP it actually clocks pretty darn well so far. 

What stress test and how long for just gaming stability do you guys recommend? I'm not going to slam it for hours with Prime95 that's for sure. That's just asking for degradation.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I got everything set to auto expt ram voltage. Getting better ram latencies now. Temps are fine at 5.2ghz got a r23 score of 16700+ @5.2. had my io set at 1.15, io mem oc at 1.4 and sa set at 1.4 because i couldn't get mem stable spent days tweaking voltages. Now i set it all to auto io is 1.05, io mem oc 1.44 and sa 1.05 and its 100% stable. 😵‍💫 So much time wasted lol. Need to retest gear1 now to see if i can do 4000mhz it would post before, but would blue screen on r23. Really wanna see if i can get under 40 for mem latency. Could do 42 at 3866 cl15 iirc


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> I got everything set to auto expt ram voltage. Getting better ram latencies now. Temps are fine at 5.2ghz got a r23 score of 16700+ @5.2. had my io set at 1.15, io mem oc at 1.4 and sa set at 1.4 because i couldn't get mem stable spent days tweaking voltages. Now i set it all to auto io is 1.05, io mem oc 1.44 and sa 1.05 and its 100% stable. 😵‍💫 So much time wasted lol. Need to retest gear1 now to see if i can do 4000mhz it would post before, but would blue screen on r23. Really wanna see if i can get under 40 for mem latency. Could do 42 at 3866 cl15 iirc


Are you running sync all cores or per core usage with single thread boost?

It didn't survive an hour of R23 at 1.314v, but passed fine at 1.332v. Running Auto voltage, 0.20 AC, 0.70 DC, LLC4. VF curve -0.080 on #7 5.2 point and -0.100 on #8 OC (5.4) point. 1.486v max single thread 5.4.

I haven't tweaked any voltages yet to get a higher 1:1 ratio tho. Just tried to boot 3800 on Auto IO and SA, didn't work. Threw me back to BIOS safe mode. Might have to try to adjust some voltages. It would be nice if I can get away with 3866+ on gear 1 especially if it wants to also run 1N command rate. Then I could go for 3866/3933 15-15-15-25-252-1T which is what I ran on the 5900X and I know my RAM can do that.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Yea running sync all cores since i have avx offset of 0. Those 2 core could run avx at a higher rate, temps would skyrocket on those cores.

With gear 1 only run 133:100 so 3866 for best stability. Start your tuning by leaving everything except ram at auto. See how far you can get with jusr setting that at 1.45v then next turn up your SA to 1.2~1.3. i had to go to 1.41 to get 4000 G1 to post. Your io can be set to 1.1 since auto is 1.04. cant hurt to turn it up a smidge. io mem oc will probably be 1.44v i was sitting at 1.41v under my all manual config. Letting that sit at auto seems to help with my latencies. Can get into low 46s. Gonna do a system refresh tomorrow. Take the whole rig apart for a good cleaning. Wash the rads fins to get 4 years of dust outa then. Retidy up a bunch of stuff. Debating on putting liquid metal on my hear spreader instead of the thermal grizzly extreme. Might shave off afew degs. But might not be worth the mess. Or just go direct die like i did with my 9900k. 20c deference doing that.

Oh also n1 command rate is darn near impossible. It can be done but its not common to see it work.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Yea running sync all cores since i have avx offset of 0. Those 2 core could run avx at a higher rate, temps would skyrocket on those cores.
> 
> With gear 1 only run 133:100 so 3866 for best stability. Start your tuning by leaving everything except ram at auto. See how far you can get with jusr setting that at 1.45v then next turn up your SA to 1.2~1.3. i had to go to 1.41 to get 4000 G1 to post. Your io can be set to 1.1 since auto is 1.04. cant hurt to turn it up a smidge. io mem oc will probably be 1.44v i was sitting at 1.41v under my all manual config. Letting that sit at auto seems to help with my latencies. Can get into low 46s. Gonna do a system refresh tomorrow. Take the whole rig apart for a good cleaning. Wash the rads fins to get 4 years of dust outa then. Retidy up a bunch of stuff. Debating on putting liquid metal on my hear spreader instead of the thermal grizzly extreme. Might shave off afew degs. But might not be worth the mess. Or just go direct die like i did with my 9900k. 20c deference doing that.
> 
> Oh also n1 command rate is darn near impossible. It can be done but its not common to see it work.


Good to know about N1 not really being possible. It's very easy to run N1 on AMD. I ran it all the way up to 4000 with no issues (gear down mode disabled so true 1T). It never worked on my 10900KF either above ~3400Mhz so makes sense. 

I used to run 4400 17-17-17 on that only 4400 is not a recommended speed on 11900K and I doubt I can get 4533 stable with these 3600C16's. It never went any higher stable then 4400 on any system so far so. 

I tried to let it boot 3866 16-16-16-36 on gear 1 with all voltages Auto and vDIMM 1.50v but that just threw me into BIOS safe mode so that didn't work.


----------



## sdmf74

Taint3dBulge said:


> Didn't try the burn test. I use occt. Using llc 4 or 5 i have to set voltage to 1.5v to get 5.1ghz all core stable. I think my chip is just bad, doing a return on it. When using llc8 if i have my votage set to 1.390 it would go to 1.412 highest.
> 
> Will have to run some other programs to figure out what that 100c temp is, or if its a glitch.
> 
> As far as llc goes i know you dont want to use max level ofc, but it was the only way to get the chip to run all core without having to run massssive voltage. I guess im not comfortable running it past 1.45 anyways.
> 
> Running everything in manual mode, can post bios screenshots if you need.
> 
> Also using latest version of bios, newest hwinfo.
> 
> Will have to check other temp programs to see if the 100c temp is a glitch or not. Did update to a beta version of hwinfo to see if that changed anything. It didn't.
> 
> As far as overshoot goes, i haven't seen anything higher then 1.53, when i was using 1.5v to test with llc5. Also forgot to add, iv reseated my waterblock several times (ek velocity 2 using Thermal Grizzly extreme paste, was going to try the TG liquid metal but since i returning it naaa) . It seemed to drop the temps by 2 C.
> 
> Oh, i forgot to mention VF points i havnt played with yet, set to auto for now.


Glad to see you are now running reasonable LLC. There are definately improvements with newer bios' I would advise anyone still using outdated mobo bios to flash the newest available, ALWAYS.
Also I would NOT be using a manual overlock for 24/7 usage. These high core count chips are hot & much different than their 2 or 4 core ancestors, Adaptive votage is the way to go.



Taint3dBulge said:


> There ya go. I have llc7 at 1.416v core in bios seems to be the most stable setting for 5.1 with avx at 0 iirc. My temps are ok under this test.
> 
> View attachment 2554018


Thanks for the post but I would need it tested with a boost clock frequency, something like maybe 52x all core or a per core with some cores at 53x or above due to the V/F curve voltage otherwise the chip wont boost the voltages enough to replicate what Im seeing on my end.



Nizzen said:


> There is also a reason you can use llc8...
> Ocn is the right place for LLC8


This post makes No Sense, if there is a reason Im curious as to why you kept it to yourself.



sharkcohen said:


> I have an Asus TUF z590 Gaming motherboard, and I tried playing with v/f offsets, but they aren’t doing anything. Have I missed something in how to use the v/f offsets, or could it be something with the TUF board that these settings don’t work?


It can be difficult to recognize adjustments made on this architecture due to the pre-programmed V/F curve voltages, I had the same issue. Also I noticed someone here posted recently they are using offsts of like -.1v and or -.2v. That is a huge offset! and the board is likely to simply ignore what you entered & go by the programmed V/F curve. Its easy to get confused or not even notice when this occurs, it can make overclocking tricky and time consuming especially for those that came from an older chipset like I did. Straight from Z270 to Z590.

I completely changed my {CPU} stability testing methods halfway through my overclocking process on Z590. I got tired of sitting through long stability tests & with the high voltages & heat on these chips I found that after making an adjustment it is WAYYY faster to simply run a fast stability test with Intel Burn Test on standard w/ 10 runs!
As long as your cooling is good enough and you can keep the package temp under 90-95c IBT does really good at showing whether an overclock is stable or not and does it in under a minute!!!
Try it, it is just as good if not better than P95, Realbench (which I still use as a backup method), OCCT, AIDA64 or any other test.
(NOTE: its always a good idea to use gaming & multiple methods to determine if an OC is 24/7 stable).



Imprezzion said:


> Yyyyeah no.. I got my Maximus XIII Hero and the 11900K in today.. SP55 with 1.686v for 5.3... it's bottom of the barrel bad. Like..
> 
> I'll get to Windows and see what it does but this doesn't bode well. Lol.


Youzers 1.686v for V/F Point 8? My chip is SP76 (I think it was much higher on previous bios) and my V/F point 8 or 53x offset voltage is 1.498v, I didnt know certain chips used that much voltage. I guess it is safe for these chips aftre all if they are pre-programmed with this much voltage.









I noticed a couple people posting their voltages are posting their VCCIO voltage, rememeber adjusting this voltage does nothing on Z590. Its VCCIO mem OC or VCCIO2 as I call it that matters.


----------



## Imprezzion

sdmf74 said:


> Glad to see you are now running reasonable LLC. There are defiantely improvements with newer bios' I would advise anyone still using outdated mobo bios to flash the newest available, ALWAYS.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the post but I would need it tested with a boost clock frequency, something like maybe 52x all core or a per core with some cores at 53x or above due to the V/F curve voltage otherwise the chip wont boost the voltages enough to replicate what Im seeing on my end.
> 
> 
> 
> This post makes No Sense, if there is a reason Im curious as to why you kept it to yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> It can be difficult to recognize adjustments made on this architecture due to the pre-programmed V/F curve voltages, I had the same issue. Also I noticed someone here posted recently they are using offsts of like -.1v and or -.2v. That is a huge offset! and the board is likely to simply ignore what you entered & go by the programmed V/F curve. Its easy to get confused or not even notice when this occurs, it can make overclocking tricky and time consuming especially for those that came from an older chipset like I did. Straight from Z270 to Z590.
> 
> I completely changed my {CPU} stability testing methods halfway through my overclocking process on Z590. I got tired of sitting through long stability tests & with the high voltages & heat on these chips I found that after making an adjustment it is WAYYY faster to simply run a fast stability test with Intel Burn Test on standard w/ 10 runs!
> As long as your cooling is good enough and you can keep the package temp under 90-95c IBT does really good at showing whether an overclock is stable or not and does it in under a minute!!!
> Try it, it is just as good if not better than P95, Realbench (which I still use as a backup method), OOCT, AIDA64 or any other test.
> (NOTE: its always a good idea to use gaming & multiple mehtods to determine if an OC is 24/7 stable).
> 
> 
> 
> Youzers 1.686v for V/F Point 8? My chip is like SP76 (I think it was much higher on previous bios) and my V/F point 8 or 53x offset voltage is 1.498v, I didnt know certain chips used that much voltage. I guess it is safe for these chips aftre all if they are pre-programmed with this much voltage.
> View attachment 2556103
> 
> 
> I noticed a couple people posting their voltages are posting their VCCIO voltage, rememeber adjusting this voltage does nothing on Z590. Its VCCIO mem OC or VCCIO2 as I call it that matters.


After the BIOS update it got better. The board had an ancient BIOS on it. It was a used set so... 

It's reading 1.504 for 5.3 SP75 now with cooler efficiency at 208 now (it's full custom water not delidded).

It doesn't actually need 1.504 so far cause I manually set it to LLC4 AC/DC 0.01 which is what the VF seems to be based on and it runs stress tests fine at 1.456v 5.3 all core but it just gets too hot. Cinebench R23 30 minute loop got up to 93c, Prime95 (avx off) small got up to 84c, small avx on I don't even wanna try lol. It went straight to 96c so..

I'm at per core usage 54x2 53x4 52x8 now with LLC4, AC 0.20 DC 0.70 V/F 7 (5.2) -0.080 V/F 8 (5.4) -0.100 and so far it has been stable in several tests all day. I'm remoted into it from work and just running some random tests and while it spikes to 1.486v when using low thread loads that's acceptable and it needs every bit of it for 5.4 so yeah. Doesn't get nearly as hot. CB R23 30 minute loop about 72c.


----------



## sdmf74

Imprezzion said:


> After the BIOS update it got better. The board had an ancient BIOS on it. It was a used set so...
> 
> It's reading 1.504 for 5.3 SP75 now with cooler efficiency at 208 now (it's full custom water not delidded).
> 
> It doesn't actually need 1.504 so far cause I manually set it to LLC4 AC/DC 0.01 which is what the VF seems to be based on and it runs stress tests fine at 1.456v 5.3 all core but it just gets too hot. Cinebench R23 30 minute loop got up to 93c, Prime95 (avx off) small got up to 84c, small avx on I don't even wanna try lol. It went straight to 96c so..
> 
> I'm at per core usage 54x2 53x4 52x8 now with LLC4, AC 0.20 DC 0.70 V/F 7 (5.2) -0.080 V/F 8 (5.4) -0.100 and so far it has been stable in several tests all day. I'm remoted into it from work and just running some random tests and while it spikes to 1.486v when using low thread loads that's acceptable and it needs every bit of it for 5.4 so yeah. Doesn't get nearly as hot. CB R23 30 minute loop about 72c.


We have VERY similar chips it seems, same preferred cores even (4&5). Someone asked earlier what the max cache clock is on 11900k and 45x is stable on mine & im guessing yours too although you might be able to go to 46x. If you are able to do 53x all core with decent voltage than you have a good chip. Mine just gets too hot & wants too big of a jump in voltage compared to 52x all core. The strange thing is though Im running my overclock at 53x7 / 52x8 with no problems & good voltage but once I go from 7 cores at 53x to 8 cores at 53x it seems to draw alot more voltage & power.

My chip does not behave fully stable w/ AC loadline at .01 & LLC4. IIRC It does at LLC3 but I decided to stay on LLC4 & during testing I determined that .16mohm was best. I am using a DC LL value of 1.0mohm, that gets me closest to being equal in power & vid than setting it to the same value as my AC LL.
Whats funny is I am setting one of my overclocks very similar to your aggressive OC. You said you was using 55x2, 53x4, 52x8. Mine is 54x3 53x5 52x8. I havent yet had the oppertunity to try to stabilze some cores at 55x since updating bios to 1402 but plan on trying.

Are you overclocking your RTX3080 gpu? You must have a good custom loop cause a cooler rating of 208 is great. I think mine could be higher but my cpu is piped directly after my gpu.. and well I sold my 3000rpm gentle typhoon intakes for the new black Noctua nf-a12x25's


----------



## Imprezzion

sdmf74 said:


> We have VERY similar chips it seems, same preferred cores even (4&5). Someone asked earlier what the max cache clock is on 11900k and 45x is stable on mine & im guessing yours too although you might be able to go to 46x. If you are able to do 53x all core with decent voltage than you have a good chip. Mine just gets too hot & wants too big of a jump in voltage compared to 52x all core. The strange thing is though Im running my overclock at 53x7 / 52x8 with no problems & good voltage but once I go from 7 cores at 53x to 8 cores at 53x it seems to draw alot more voltage & power.
> 
> My chip does not behave fully stable w/ AC loadline at .01 & LLC4. IIRC It does at LLC3 but I decided to stay on LLC4 & during testing I determined that .16mohm was best. I am using a DC LL value of 1.0mohm, that gets me closest to being equal in power & vid than setting it to the same value as my AC LL.
> Whats funny is I am setting one of my overclocks very similar to your aggressive OC. You said you was using 55x2, 53x4, 52x8. Mine is 54x3 53x5 52x8. I havent yet had the oppertunity to try to stabilze some cores at 55x since updating bios to 1402 but plan on trying.
> 
> Are you overclocking your RTX3080 gpu? You must have a good custom loop cause a cooler rating of 208 is great. I think mine could be higher but my cpu is piped directly after my gpu without a radiator in between them.. and well I sold my 3000rpm gentle typhoon intakes for the new black Noctua nf-a12x25's


Sort of. My 3080 is just 2x8 pin so it runs curve locked at 2025Mhz 0.981v +1400 memory.

My loop is a HWLabs Nemesis GTX 420 push pull + Nemesis GTX 240 push pull, EK XRES D5 PWM always full speed, EK Velocity D-RGB Nickel Plexi CPU block, Bykski full cover 3080 block, as few as possible 90's, mostly 45's or straight runs. 10/16 Mayhems Ultra Clear soft tubing, Mayhems X1 premix fluid. For fans I use Alpenfohn Wing Boost 3 ARGB's. They have amazing static pressure at very low RPM so they hardly ever spin above 900RPM especially in push pull on both rads.


















I mean, it's called project: rainbowbarf for a reason.

EDIT:

Well, 3866 boots gear 1 just fine. Let's go higher.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Nice man, 3866 is good. 4000 is really good for gear 1. I wanna try 4000 again. But rig is in getting a head to toe clean. Been years since i wash out my rad fins. 420 and 240 like yourself. Finally updating my oooold pump res combo too.


----------



## Imprezzion

I just tape up the fans so they don't spin and run the air compressor through it every month or so. Then use a slightly damp microfiber to clean the fan blades as they tend to build up dust on the edged quite badly. 

Well, for some reason my BIOS profile broke after changing some stuff around with LLC and AC/DC. It suddenly started hard freezing single core loads even after loading a saved previously working profile. Had to load optimized defaults and set my clocks and settings again manually and then it worked fine again.

I get around 16350 in CBR23, 7020 in CPU-Z with single thread in CPU-Z being 704 with XMP 3600C16 and 4.1 cache.

I got the CPU pretty dailed in now. 54x2 53x4 52x8 at LLC4 0.20 AC 0.80 DC Auto vCore with V/F at -0.150 for 5.2 and -0.100 for 5.4(OC Ratio) points. Full load is around 1.350v with single thread sitting around 1.456v. It passed my normal stress test suite fine with max temps well below 80c except for full-on AVX like x265 encoding with AVX-512. That hit around 84c. No offset btw.

I have yet to test cache, it did boot 46 fine but wasn't exactly stable so I don't have high hopes for the cache. 45 ran a lot better but I haven't tested it enough.

Next up is seeing if I can run 4533 CAS 17 gear 2 on these DIMM's. They never managed that on the 10900KF which topped out at 4400 CAS 17 so. Will take several hours of TM5 testing..


----------



## WebsterRKL

Z590 build - Custom AIO, with no reservoir - typewriter build amazing speed.

Still not finished, Nvidia RTX A2000 shipping this week. (after purchasing ago 6months) I scream for forgiveness. 

A water build that can add a new motherboard or CPU an entire gen, without disconnecting tubing runs - without draining the loop. How many water loops can do that?

The science is built into the build! - It's also inaudible. I will not be taking questions.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Nice, i want to do just an open bed or case. Redid my setup. Pretty pleased with it. Gonna hardline my gpu to cpu for better fitment.









Have to make do with an old 90° till i can get this sorted out. Also had to use some super flexible tubing. The black tubes are soooo stiff.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> View attachment 2556514
> 
> Nice, i want to do just an open bed or case. Redid my setup. Pretty pleased with it. Gonna hardline my gpu to cpu for better fitment.
> 
> View attachment 2556513
> 
> Have to make do with an old 90° till i can get this sorted out. Also had to use some super flexible tubing. The black tubes are soooo stiff.


Looking good! Does that GPU block not have top side ports? I purposely used the top side port as outlet and the bottom one as inlet as that made routing so much easier and didn't need nearly as many angled fittings.

I am really struggling with memory on this board / chip so far. I can boot the craziest timings and frequencies but no matter what I do nothing will stabilize in TM5... Hell. Even 4533C17 G2 can boot with 1T and RTL's in the 40's but nothing stabilizes... Maximus Tweak mode 2 makes RTL/IO extremely tight but doesn't stabilize at all, mode 1 does nothing basically compared to Auto. I'm on 4400C17 mode 2 2T now with very low RTL/IO but slightly looser tertiaries and more vDIMM (1.56v) and at least it didn't spit dozens of errors the first 10 minutes like it did before..

Same with cache frequency. I could even get it to boot windows at 4900 cache but anything over ~4300 spaces out completely in stress tests. I'm just running auto 4100 now just to make sure that isn't causing errors in TM5.

At least the cores do well at 54x2 53x4 52x8 even tho my VID sometimes spikes as high as 1.64v. The vCore never goes that high but I still saw 1.552v spikes now and then. It is at least stable core wise..and temps are great. Never went above 73c in any load so far.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Try setting the cores to sync all cores to like 52x and retrying cache and mem overclocking. With such high core clocks it might be stressing your imc and cache to much.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Try setting the cores to sync all cores to like 52x and retrying cache and mem overclocking. With such high core clocks it might be stressing your imc and cache to much.


This boards BIOS comes with a few pre loaded profiles and one of them is a B-Die 2x16GB DR 4266C17-17-17-32- 280-2T @ 1.450v profile so I loaded that up and that was at least stable. I used that as a baseline and tweaked some timings from there and at 16-16-16-32-280 with a few tertiaries manually tweaked @ 1.540v it only gave 1 single error#6. Those are usually vDIMM so raised it 1 step and testing again.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I use these exact timings for 4266 at 1.45v

















I might of bought some 4800mhz cl20 ram. This will be fun.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> I use these exact timings for 4266 at 1.45v
> View attachment 2556663
> 
> View attachment 2556662
> 
> 
> I might of bought some 4800mhz cl20 ram. This will be fun.


Passed the full 5 hours @ 1.540v. Don't know what's going on with the DIMM temps but k. Test was still running, 100% load in task manager and it was progressing still. (Custom time per test and amount of runs set in 1usmus config)









4800C20? What brand. I have never seen those before lol. Is that B-Die or some Hynix stuff?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

F4-4800C20D-32GTES - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-4800C20D-32GTES. Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-4800 CL20-30-30-50 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB).




www.gskill.com


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> F4-4800C20D-32GTES - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-4800C20D-32GTES. Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-4800 CL20-30-30-50 1.55V 32GB (2x16GB).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


Lol. Those timings. I tried to boot 4800 on my B-Die but it maxed out at 4600 ish. 

I'm still quite surprised how high the VID and core voltage goes with mostly everything Auto. 1.641v VID and I've seen actual vCore hit 1.596v so..


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Ya, not the best timings. But we will see how tight i can get them lol. Kinda like my 4000 19-19-19-39, i thought they were pretty loose. But got those to run 4266 17-17-17-32


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, F in the chat.. The Maximus XIII Hero southbridge / chipset heatsink is too high for my 3080's waterblock to fit. It hits the heatsink with the ARGB wiring and doesn't seat in the PCI-E slot all the way causing some nice random crashes I blamed on my overclock. It was also running on 4.0 X4 link speed..

I got it to fit now but it required me to cut the ARGB wiring off the block unfortunately. I'll have to pull the entire card out of the loop and resolder the ARGB wiring now in a different spot to make it fit properly.. I can drain it all over again.. sigh..

EDIT: it's fixed. I was able to get to the LED PCB in the block without removing it from the loop and it's only screwed in with 2 screws. Took it out, flipped it 180 degrees so the plug is on the PCI-E bracket side and not on the 8 pin connector side of the card, resoldered the wires, put it back in and it fits way better. It actually fully seats in the PCI-E slot now and clicks the lock which it didn't do before and the RGB works fine again as well. Got the full 4.0 x16 lanes too. Now let's hope the crashes are gone as well.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Imprezzion said:


> Well, F in the chat.. The Maximus XIII Hero southbridge / chipset heatsink is too high for my 3080's waterblock to fit. It hits the heatsink with the ARGB wiring and doesn't seat in the PCI-E slot all the way causing some nice random crashes I blamed on my overclock. It was also running on 4.0 X4 link speed..
> 
> I got it to fit now but it required me to cut the ARGB wiring off the block unfortunately. I'll have to pull the entire card out of the loop and resolder the ARGB wiring now in a different spot to make it fit properly.. I can drain it all over again.. sigh..
> 
> EDIT: it's fixed. I was able to get to the LED PCB in the block without removing it from the loop and it's only screwed in with 2 screws. Took it out, flipped it 180 degrees so the plug is on the PCI-E bracket side and not on the 8 pin connector side of the card, resoldered the wires, put it back in and it fits way better. It actually fully seats in the PCI-E slot now and clicks the lock which it didn't do before and the RGB works fine again as well. Got the full 4.0 x16 lanes too. Now let's hope the crashes are gone as well.


Oh the joys of watercooled pcs. I got a bunch of stuff i need to do too. Had to order 200 bucks worth of fittings today so i can get this perfectly fit from my gpu to my cpu along with redoing some other tubing.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Oh the joys of watercooled pcs. I got a bunch of stuff i need to do too. Had to order 200 bucks worth of fittings today so i can get this perfectly fit from my gpu to my cpu along with redoing some other tubing.


I'm glad I thought ahead and got a Y fitting on the outlet of my res that has a EK drain port on one side and the tube to my GPU on the other side. Makes draining easy at least. 

I did notice one of the CPU block tubes doesn't really grip all that well in the collar of the fitting anymore. Probably cause I took it off several times and swapped blocks a few times. Might have to replace that one just for peace of mind even tho it's not under any tension and doesn't leak. 

But, good news the GPU isn't hard freezing anymore so far and it seems to run properly at 4.0 x16 now. 

Next project: higher frequency on the RAM and / or testing lower VCCIO and VCCSA just to save some power and wear and tear. I'm not very high on them but for 4266C16 Gear 2 2T I probably don't need 1.372v IO and 1.312v SA.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Looks like i can run 48x cache. But looks to have to use 1.51v. ran a 10 min stress test and ran it just fine. Think ill back it off to 47x and just run that for daily use. 49x and 50x are a no go, over 1.6v lol.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Looks like i can run 48x cache. But looks to have to use 1.51v. ran a 10 min stress test and ran it just fine. Think ill back it off to 47x and just run that for daily use. 49x and 50x are a no go, over 1.6v lol.


Static voltage or adaptive? Even when I set sync all cores 5.2 with just auto vcore and use LLC, AC and DC Load line + VF curve like I did on Z490 the voltage is all over the place. Like, CB R23 has like 1.350v, but then TestMem5 has 1.432v and something else like x265 encoding benchmark has like, 1.408 and in game loads that vary a lot it goes all over the place from 1.363 to 1.452...

I can't seem to make the voltage just be one value. I can obviously set static but I want my idle power saving with these crazy energy prices lol.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Imprezzion said:


> Static voltage or adaptive? Even when I set sync all cores 5.2 with just auto vcore and use LLC, AC and DC Load line + VF curve like I did on Z490 the voltage is all over the place. Like, CB R23 has like 1.350v, but then TestMem5 has 1.432v and something else like x265 encoding benchmark has like, 1.408 and in game loads that vary a lot it goes all over the place from 1.363 to 1.452...
> 
> I can't seem to make the voltage just be one value. I can obviously set static but I want my idle power saving with these crazy energy prices lol.


Oh, its what it said in the bottom right in the bios. also shows 1.7v for 5.2ghz avx load lol.


Maybe someone can help me figure out how to show my per core VID, cannot figure out how to show it on hwinfo, have the latest version.
(yes i have 49 values hidden, non show the vid)









Just did a 20 min stress test with percore 2x|54x, 4x|53x, 8x|52x. Not to bad temps are ok, even though i am headed towards 1.54v when at idle.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Oh, its what it said in the bottom right in the bios. also shows 1.7v for 5.2ghz avx load lol.
> 
> 
> Maybe someone can help me figure out how to show my per core VID, cannot figure out how to show it on hwinfo, have the latest version.
> (yes i have 49 values hidden, non show the vid)
> View attachment 2556884
> 
> 
> Just did a 20 min stress test with percore 2x|54x, 4x|53x, 8x|52x. Not to bad temps are ok, even though i am headed towards 1.54v when at idle.


Euh. How does this work? Minimum is 0.900, I cannot set any lower manually, yet Auto is this value? Best thing of it all, it's stable...










EDIT: it's exactly half of the actual value apparently. Both software and BIOS read it wrong but it was correct for a while. Weird..

Also, 4.5 cache randomly freezes so yeah back to 4.4.

EDIT2: I was getting really frustrated by the constant random crashing that wouldn't show up in stress testing, only in games. And I got really fed up with the voltage being all over the place. Did a full CMOS CLR, load optimized defaults and started over clean focussing on the voltage first. I tried just about everything from different core voltage modes, TVB tweaks, LLC, AC/DC tweaks and so forth. I finally got it to a point that seems to work a hell of a lot better. I had to leave most of the settings like AVB, SVID and MCE on Auto, vCore on Auto, LLC 6 which is way higher then I'd normally run but it helps a LOT in keeping the voltages within a reasonable amount of dispersion between differing loads, AC/DC 0.01 which is where the V/F curve is based on anyway. V/F fairly agressive negative curve on #6, #7 and #8, 53x3 52x8, no 54 boost for now. AVX2 and 512 are on 75 guard scale. It will stay within reason voltage wise now with CB R23 running ~1.332v and TM5 1.396v. Those are the lowest and the highest out of all my stress tests and benches. Also, gaming doesn't let the voltage go mental anymore. Highest I've seen it spike is 1.430v where before it would be more like 1.596v. Temps are 10c lower in general as well. Also haven't had any weird crashes anymore so far and even PCI-E active link power saving seems to work again without randomly hard locking the PC.

RAM still 4266 16-16-16-32-2T @ 1.540v vDIMM, 1.372v IO OC, 1.306v SA Gear 2 with mediocre tertiaries but very tight RTL/IO. 62xxx bandwidth and 48.x ns latency which is nice. I can get away with 15-16-16 pretty easily but I need to test that further. I also wanna tighten the tertiaries up a bit.

Still, I have to be honest. I really really miss my 10900KF Delid + MSI Z490 Ace. Was way easier to set up RAM with, could handle much higher memory clocks and no gears, would easily run 54x2, 53x5, 52x10 on much lower voltages and temperatures, and in the end probably performs better as well with 2 extra cores and way way better memory latency.

I might just buy a Z490 Ace / Unify and a 10900K/KF again since I still have the delid tool and everything.. or offer my 11900K kit to the guy I sold my 10900KF set to as he doesn't overclock anyway and stock for stock mines probably faster..


----------



## Taint3dBulge

eh, I just run sync all cores. I notice zero improvements in games running with (2/54x) (2/53x) (4/52x)

I run manual vcore at 1.5v with llc4 ac.20 dc.98

Everything else is set to auto exept ram i have set at 1.46v

you can set your vccio mem oc to like 1.4~.44v if your really cranking up your ram oc and doing tight timings.

normal vccio leave auto
vccsa leave auto

with the apex board anyways it does a really good job with auto settings, i even left my vcore on auto for the longest time, highest it would get was 1.525v running 52xcore and 47xcache

Now im just testing thermals and whats the lowest volts i can run before it become unstable since i think this is where im going to keep it. when at load the lowest it goes is 1.332 but stays about 1.35-1.36. Seems like its totally stable where its at. might try and up my cache back up to 48x. See if i can keep stable at this current voltage. sitting in the low 80s is very acceptable.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> eh, I just run sync all cores. I notice zero improvements in games running with (2/54x) (2/53x) (4/52x)
> 
> I run manual vcore at 1.5v with llc4 ac.20 dc.98
> 
> Everything else is set to auto exept ram i have set at 1.46v
> 
> you can set your vccio mem oc to like 1.4~.44v if your really cranking up your ram oc and doing tight timings.
> 
> normal vccio leave auto
> vccsa leave auto
> 
> with the apex board anyways it does a really good job with auto settings, i even left my vcore on auto for the longest time, highest it would get was 1.525v running 52xcore and 47xcache
> 
> Now im just testing thermals and whats the lowest volts i can run before it become unstable since i think this is where im going to keep it. when at load the lowest it goes is 1.332 but stays about 1.35-1.36. Seems like its totally stable where its at. might try and up my cache back up to 48x. See if i can keep stable at this current voltage. sitting in the low 80s is very acceptable.
> 
> View attachment 2557058


I don't like fixed vCore as I spend a lot of time for work on my PC as well as watching YouTube and such and with the current energy prices why would I not have all power saving features enabled with idle vCore at like 0.766v. I even use a program that forces my Windows to Power Saving energy profile when I'm not gaming. 

CAS15 4266 works but needs 1.596v vDIMM to pass TestMem5. That is kinda fine but DIMM temps are too high with the side panel closed. I will go for 4400C17 again tho. 4533 also needs too much vDIMM and 4600+ is something my cheap bin just won't run.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

heh, got solar for the house over a year ago, havnt had a power bill since. I also turn off the pc at night and dont turn it on till mid to late afternoon so its only on like 10-12 hours a day. So not to worried lol.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I finally got it to stabilize a bit and got the voltage under control now. 53x3 52x8, AC/DC 0.01, LLC6, V/F Curve -0.150 at #7 and #8. VCCIO OC 1.360v, SA 1.320v. RAM at Gear 2 4266 16-16-16-32-280-1T 1.540v with nice and tight secondary, tertiary and RTL/IO. Cache 4300.

Highest die sense vCore I saw in several days of normal usage is 1.442v and normal game loads are ~1.380v. Temps are fine, benches hit high 70's low 80's, gaming low 60's. I can't run extreme AVX loads like Prime95 Small AVX512 on as it's hitting my thermal limit at 95c and throttles to 4.9-5Ghz however it doesn't crash. Non torture AVX2/512 loads like x265 encoding with AVX enabled are actually fine at full frequency. It gets close to 90c but doesn't throttle and is actually stable at the full 5.2Ghz (1.396v ish for AVX).

I'm still thinking of getting a 12900K + DDR4 board if I happen to stumble upon a good deal for a used one but otherwise i'm perfectly happy with this 11900K. Yes, it performs worse then my 5900X did. By quite a margin actually in terms of average FPS. However 1% lows are better and there's no weird driver / BIOS issues, no weird stuttering in Windows 11 related to AMD's horrible fTPM, I have thunderbolt now, way more M.2 slots, dual 2.5g LAN... And power consumption compared to a max OC 5900X that isn't actually that much worse.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Hmm. Figured out why most people cant do more then 45/46 cache. Has to do with using a m.2 4.0. was using my dimm.2 and could do 48x cache. Once i installed the new m.2 and took out the dimm.2 i was getting crashing left and right doing 47x cache. Bumped it down to 46 and now its stable again


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Hmm. Figured out why most people cant do more then 45/46 cache. Has to do with using a m.2 4.0. was using my dimm.2 and could do 48x cache. Once i installed the new m.2 and took out the dimm.2 i was getting crashing left and right doing 47x cache. Bumped it down to 46 and now its stable again


I tried to run 44 cache and while under load it seems fine it will randomly hard freeze when going from a high load to no load or on the desktop. Probably related to c-states / EIST partially, but no go for me. I like my power saving to be active. I'm running 43 now and that works perfectly fine. 

I am not using a 4.0 M.2 but I am using 2 3.0 M.2's and my GPU is on full 4.0 with Resizable BAR and Hardware accelerated scheduling enabled. 

And what also might have an impact on cache stability is obviously RAM OC. I'm on 4266 16-16-16-28-280-1T Gear 2 with tight secondary and tertiary timings. This might not help.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Imprezzion said:


> I tried to run 44 cache and while under load it seems fine it will randomly hard freeze when going from a high load to no load or on the desktop. Probably related to c-states / EIST partially, but no go for me. I like my power saving to be active. I'm running 43 now and that works perfectly fine.
> 
> I am not using a 4.0 M.2 but I am using 2 3.0 M.2's and my GPU is on full 4.0 with Resizable BAR and Hardware accelerated scheduling enabled.
> 
> And what also might have an impact on cache stability is obviously RAM OC. I'm on 4266 16-16-16-28-280-1T Gear 2 with tight secondary and tertiary timings. This might not help.


What clock speed llc and voltage you running mate


----------



## Imprezzion

Yamcha2209 said:


> What clock speed llc and voltage you running mate


Sync all cores 52, LLC6, AC/DC 0.01, Auto vCore+ V/F Curve #7 and #8 -0.150v, load 1.380-1.396v. All power saving, C-States, EIST, Turbo enabled.

I did also test with Per Core 54x2, 53x5, 52x8, LLC4, AC 0.20 DC 0.80 to sync it with VID but this results in massive overshoot up to 1.596v, very unstable load voltage between 1.372-1.496 and way higher temperatures even tho an all core 5.2 load is roughly the same voltage as above. Also crashes above 44 cache here.

vDIMM 1.540v, VCCIO OC 1.360v, VCCSA 1.320v. 18 hours TestMem5 1usmus + Anta777 Absolut stable. 8 hours y-cruncher stable, 3 hours Cinebench R23 looped stable.


----------



## Yamcha2209

might give this a run thank you


----------



## Imprezzion

Yamcha2209 said:


> might give this a run thank you


Yeah go ahead, my SP is a 75 so if yours isn't much worse it should work. For lower RAM clocks like 3600 gear 1 you don't need nearly as much VCCIO OC or SA tho. 

And be mindful of overshoot when going above x52 multi for any core load. 53 or above, even for a few cores, tends to absolutely yeet the VID / vCore to the moon. I've seen 1.627v on Auto voltages at 55x2 already so..


----------



## Yamcha2209

I'll let you know how it goes thanks again


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Imprezzion said:


> Sync all cores 52, LLC6, AC/DC 0.01, Auto vCore+ V/F Curve #7 and #8 -0.150v, load 1.380-1.396v. All power saving, C-States, EIST, Turbo enabled.
> 
> I did also test with Per Core 54x2, 53x5, 52x8, LLC4, AC 0.20 DC 0.80 to sync it with VID but this results in massive overshoot up to 1.596v, very unstable load voltage between 1.372-1.496 and way higher temperatures even tho an all core 5.2 load is roughly the same voltage as above. Also crashes above 44 cache here.
> 
> vDIMM 1.540v, VCCIO OC 1.360v, VCCSA 1.320v. 18 hours TestMem5 1usmus + Anta777 Absolut stable. 8 hours y-cruncher stable, 3 hours Cinebench R23 looped stable.


Im running close to the same for mem. 4266 all the same but cl17 and extremely tight sub timings. I just couldn't hit cl16 with my ram.

SP50
Mem 1.45v
Vcore (auto) = 1.5 idle ~1.38 load
Vccio (auto) = 1.05v
Vccio mem oc 1.36v
Vccsa (auto) = 1.04v
LLC4 .22ac .98dc

5.2 all core 100% stable at 89c max temp after a hour of ada64

Mem latency is 45.7
Read 67500
Write 66500
Copy 67000


----------



## Awesomeguy10578

Just wanted to share my i9 11900KF overclock coming from a Ryzen 7 5800X. The 5800X is way more efficient and a better CPU imo but I got this 11900KF for $270 with a Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Master for $170 and wanted to try something new. Could've gone 12th gen but using DDR4 on it seems like choking it intentionally and DDR5 prices is stupid, also I hate e-waste cores. Overall managed an overclock that beats my 5800X in everything so at least it manages that.

The thing I love on this CPU over Ryzen is the way better overclocking controls, with Ryzen I had to fight with PBO and curve optimizer if I want to keep power savings and temp throttling while trying to optimize the CPU behavior to overclock as high as possible. With this 11900KF I just try higher and higher multipliers as usual and still keep my safety throttling and power saving features. Way easier to dial in an overclock that behaves exactly as I want even on lighter workloads.

Managed 5.2GHz at 1.41v Vout on the VRM reading and up to 5.5GHz on 2 cores at 1.51-1.54c Vout. Cache is 4.4GHz with ring down bin disabled. The all-core seems average but the single core looks better than most to me.
Tried higher cache but 4.5 and above will crash on y-cruncher. y-cruncher is now stable with hitting thermal throttling. Prime95 smallFFT is stable for at least an hour as it'll hit my 110C throttle limit to 5.0GHz-5.1GHz all core. Cinebench R23 is indefinitely stable for sure and I have been using this with Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects without crashes as well.

RAM I can get to 3733MHz Gear 1 at CL14 1.55V with tight as I can secondary/tertiary timings on some Patriot Viper Steel 4x8GB 4400MHz CL19 kit. Vccio2 1.35v VCCSA 1.4v. Does 43ns on Aida64.

CPU cooler: Silverstone PF240 with 2x Noctua NF-F12 3000 IPPC
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Master
RAM: Patriot Viper Steel 4x8GB 4400MHz CL19

Here's my hwbot submissions:
R11.5








Nero10578`s Cinebench - R11.5 score: 29.31 cb with a Core i9 11900KF


The Core i9 11900KF @ 5200MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R11.5 benchmark. Nero10578ranks #null worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org




R15








Nero10578`s Cinebench - R15 score: 2697 cb with a Core i9 11900KF


The Core i9 11900KF @ 5200MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R15 benchmark. Nero10578ranks #null worldwide and #6 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org




R20








Nero10578`s Cinebench - R20 score: 6523 cb with a Core i9 11900KF


The Core i9 11900KF @ 5200MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. Nero10578ranks #214 worldwide and #7 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org




R23 All-core Nero10578`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 16905 cb with a Core i9 11900KF
R23 Single-core








Nero10578`s Cinebench - R23 Single Core with BenchMate score: 1762 cb with a Core i9 11900KF


The Core i9 11900KF @ 5500MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Single Core with BenchMate benchmark. Nero10578ranks #null worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org




Y-cruncher 1B








Nero10578`s y-cruncher - Pi-1b score: 33sec 78ms with a Core i9 11900KF


The Core i9 11900KF @ 5200MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-1b benchmark. Nero10578ranks #null worldwide and #5 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org




Y-cruncher 2.5B








Nero10578`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 1min 35sec 242ms with a Core i9 11900KF


The Core i9 11900KF @ 5200MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b benchmark. Nero10578ranks #null worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Nice man. I finally got my gear 2 dialed in. Just tryn to get (four act win time to 16), have it at 18. But i think i finally got it. Had to bring my mem voltage all the way from 1.45 to 1.5 to get it stable. Just changing that 1 timing. Next will be trying gear 1. Takes forever to try and get every timing and tertiary to its lowest setting and then finding out what voltages can be dropped to. Im hoping i can get 4000mhz gear 1. I can boot but definitely not stable. Also might retry to enable percore so i can get 54x on 2 cores. Only thing i find with that is when it fluctuates between 5.4 and 5.2 i get a stutter in games. Not sure why. All cores locked and easily this build is the smoothest my games have ever ran. Its the low latency from the ram. I get zero stutters. Havnt played with amd. I might with the 6950x cpus come out. Sounds like they are gearing these towards the overclockers.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Nice man. I finally got my gear 2 dialed in. Just tryn to get (four act win time to 16), have it at 18. But i think i finally got it. Had to bring my mem voltage all the way from 1.45 to 1.5 to get it stable. Just changing that 1 timing. Next will be trying gear 1. Takes forever to try and get every timing and tertiary to its lowest setting and then finding out what voltages can be dropped to. Im hoping i can get 4000mhz gear 1. I can boot but definitely not stable. Also might retry to enable percore so i can get 54x on 2 cores. Only thing i find with that is when it fluctuates between 5.4 and 5.2 i get a stutter in games. Not sure why. All cores locked and easily this build is the smoothest my games have ever ran. Its the low latency from the ram. I get zero stutters. Havnt played with amd. I might with the 6950x cpus come out. Sounds like they are gearing these towards the overclockers.


I noticed the same. Sync all cores is definitely smoother then per core and it's not like any single threaded application actually benefits noticably from 5.4 vs 5.2. 

I just kinda wish I could get 5.3 all core but it just takes too much voltage to do so. I know running in the high 70's low 80's isn't a big deal but it is when voltage is at like 1.48-1.49v. I don't plan on keeping this setup for very long anyway but I would like to resell it at a nice price not degraded to heck lel. That's why I don't delid this either. If I kept it long term I would delid + direct die. 

I just got the 1700 backplate in for my EK Velocity block so if I happen to find a reasonably priced 12900K/KS used I will grab that and a MSI DDR4 board.


----------



## Ormy

Just realised that despite me using this thread quite heavily as a reference while OCing my 11700K I've never actually posted here.

11700K
SP56 according to ASUS bios
Mem 1.45v
Vcore is in offset mode, 1.45V under load
Vccio = 1.25v
Vccio mem oc 1.4v
Vccsa = 1.3v
LLC4

24/7 Stable CPU OC: 52x2c/51x4c/50x8c (tested several hours of prime95 AVX and non-AVX and several hours R23 multithread)
AVX offset: -2 (so when running AVX loads all cores are limited to 5.0GHz regardless of number of cores utilised)

24/7 Stable RAM OC: DDR4 3600MHz 15-15-15-32-275-2T Gear 1 (tested several hours prime95 and memtest86), I haven't got as far as tuning tertiaries yet, I may not bother.

Cinebench R23 seems to load the CPU more than any prime95 (AVX or not) mode, under max load I see CPU power usage around 280W (as reported by HWinfo64) and temps in high 70s. CPU is not delidded but I am using liquid metal between the AIO coldplate and CPU's IHS.

R23 scores: 16051 multithread, 1600 single thread. I could get a fair bit higher on multithread by OCing further, I reckon I could hit 5.1GHz all core with some work, maybe even get 17k in R23, it wouldn't be 100% stable but just stable enough for one run of R23 but I'm not particularly interested in doing so, I only care about an OC that is 24/7 stable for daily use.
AIDA64: Mem latency is 45.8ns, read/write/copy approx 55GB/s.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Weird some of those timings arnt right.
tRAS-32
tWR-10
tWTR L\S-auto, so not sure what those values are
What do any of you put for the long and short of the tWTR?


----------



## Imprezzion

This is what she can do after days and days of tweaking. I'm using a really weird combination now of per-core load OC and Specific Core settings only allowing Core 4 and Core 5 to run above 5200 as those are the preferred cores and the only 2 actually capable of running anything over 5200Mhz under 1.50v. Voltages, SVID and LLC and AC/DC all Auto to let Intel ABT / OCTVB work properly. I do have a V/F Curve offset at -0.100 for #7 and -0.050 at #8. Cache left Auto for now, RAM 4266C16 G2. It gets hot but not unmanagable.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

What do you have your vccio set to? I see the vccio mem oc is at .680v. regular vccio should be left to auto and vccio mem oc is what you use to overclock mem.
Vccio - auto 1.05v
Vccio mem oc - 1.36v
is what im using, seems to be what works well for most people here running 4266-4400mhz.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> What do you have your vccio set to? I see the vccio mem oc is at .680v. regular vccio should be left to auto and vccio mem oc is what you use to overclock mem.
> Vccio - auto 1.05v
> Vccio mem oc - 1.36v
> is what im using, seems to be what works well for most people here running 4266-4400mhz.


It's double that. So 1.360v. For some reason both the BIOS and HWINFO64 reads only half the actual value. 

Also found out Intel Adaptive Boost Technology basically completely replaced my entire manual 5.1Ghz all-core OC as it does exactly that. Just enabling ABT gives me 5.1 all core boost, 5.3x2 and even 4.3 cache with everything left Auto and it's perfectly stable. 

So, now I can choose. Run ABT and just forget about manual OC and use it like that. Run manual per core 54x2 52x8 which is faster but also way way more voltage and heat. Or just keep searching for used 10900K/KF/KA and 11900K/KF chips and bin them vs this one until I find a golden one hehe. 10900K = more cores, faster memory controller and better gear 1 OC, lose PCI-E 4.0 and a small amount of single thread performance.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I wouldn't even bother with 2 boost cores. Causes stutters in games when it switches. Id use them for benching but way to much extra voltage and no noticable difference in everyday usage. 

For best temps i just do llc4 and auto vcore. I spent hours fine tuning an adaptive voltage and its pretty much exactly the same as auto lol.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

If you want information overload


----------



## spin5000

Taint3dBulge said:


> If you want information overload


I love that guy. Hope his channel gets way bigger. He's insanely informative and knowledgeable.


----------



## Imprezzion

Well, I watched most of it and man he sure is knowledgeable. He has a subscriber in me. 

And it prompted me to re do everything again lol. 

Intel ABT is nice but it does cause a lot of clock fluctuations and thus stuttering in gaming so back to per core load OC 54x2 52x8 as it doesn't use x54 in gaming and doesn't stutter or fluctuate clocks. 

SVID Auto, AVX offset 0, vCore Auto, LLC5, AC 0.01 to get the lowest possible VID's (which are still way too high), DC 0.73 to match with LLC5 and get VID and vCore to sync, V/F curve #7 x52 -0.075. 

I tested -0.100 first with a 60 minute Cinebench R23 Multicore loop and it BSOD after 40 minutes so went to 0.075 and tested again, it passed fine. After that ran several other stress tests like Prime95 without AVX small 1h, large with AVX, blend no AVX overnight, CPU-Z stress test, x265 AVX encoding 4 instances, 60 min R23 single thread for 54x2, all passed fine.

Temps hottest core quite high, 93 in AVX stress tests. Average around 84. vCore in Cinebench R23 which is the most vdroop of all the tests is around 1.386v. I do want to try a higher LLC value with more offset as it still has a pretty big overshoot on LLC5 in gaming. It usually sits around 1.447v in medium loads which I would like to have closer to 1.39v ish so I think I need a bit more LLC and less DC Load line. In games temps are fine tho. 

I also wanna repaste the block / chip as the Delta between hottest and coldest cores is quite large (10-12c) and temps look a bit high to me for the block and loop I run. Funny thing is, temps don't really rise at all from the start of a test to 5 hours in so to me that means the thermal transfer between the CPU and the block is the limiting factor, not the loops cooling capacity. Maybe i'll even lap the CPU and the block and go for liquid metal. I have plenty of Conductonaut and Liquid Ultra + sandpaper and a glass sheet laying around from my delidding days. 

I still can't get cache anything above 43 btw. It will run stress tests all day at 46 but crashes almost instantly with changing loads if ring down bin is active...


----------



## Ormy

Imprezzion said:


> I still can't get cache anything above 43 btw. It will run stress tests all day at 46 but crashes almost instantly with changing loads if ring down bin is active...


Same here on my 11700K. Up to 45x will be mostly stable in benchmarks (stable enough to complete an R23 run anyway) but anything above 43x will crash within an hour on medium loads i.e. games that are not hitting the CPU much or watching 4K video. Kind of frustrating.



Taint3dBulge said:


> If you want information overload
> 
> (4 in depth videos)


I'm very confused right now. Obviously this guy knows his stuff, I've used his vids to learn about overlocking, but something here really bothers me. Just looking at his R23 multithread scores, he barely breaks 15k after all that work, on a 11900K reported as SP77. On the other hand, I (overclocking noob) managed to squeeze 16k out of a 11700k reported as SP56. What gives? Am I missing something?


----------



## Imprezzion

Ormy said:


> Same here on my 11700K. Up to 45x will be mostly stable in benchmarks (stable enough to complete an R23 run anyway) but anything above 43x will crash within an hour on medium loads i.e. games that are not hitting the CPU much or watching 4K video. Kind of frustrating.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very confused right now. Obviously this guy knows his stuff, I've used his vids to learn about overlocking, but something here really bothers me. Just looking at his R23 multithread scores, he barely breaks 15k after all that work, on a 11900K reported as SP77. On the other hand, I (overclocking noob) managed to squeeze 16k out of a 11700k reported as SP56. What gives? Am I missing something?


Mine on stock Intel ABT + MCE does 158xx and on manual 52x8 + 43 cache + 4266C16 1T RAM (gear 2) 16760. So.. I don't know lol. Was he using stock cache + terrible RAM?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Started playing with Gear1 again. got 3866 stable with good timings. Got under 40ms 










Only messed with it for 2 hours or so. I got some more playing to do with some of the timings and then to find where the voltages need to settle. But not to bad for a quick dirty overclock in gear 1.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Started playing with Gear1 again. got 3866 stable with good timings. Got under 40ms
> 
> View attachment 2559434
> 
> 
> Only messed with it for 2 hours or so. I got some more playing to do with some of the timings and then to find where the voltages need to settle. But not to bad for a quick dirty overclock in gear 1.


Where'd you get that ASRock timing configurator version from. I tried the versions I used on Z490 and they don't load properly on the Hero. 

I might steal some timings from your setup. I can't get 3800/3866 stable so far on subtimings that I know were stable on my 5900X so.. 

Oh and could you maybe explain a bit how to set RTL IO on this board.. I know how to do it on MSI but haven't had any luck on this board manually setting them..


----------



## Taint3dBulge

The timing configurator is from a z690

I used a preset for my timings, not sure if the hero has the same thing. Under timings, there is a preset, I used the Samsung 2x16 4266 1.45 preset. Then changed to 1T and set 3866 1:1.

I started with these voltages.
1.55v mem
1.36v vccio mem oc
1.36v vccsa

The RTL IO is set with that preset, so i didnt really do anything with that. With the apex board there is a section i can mess with that. Which i will probably at some point. Just try upping your vccsa till it boots. Might need 1.4v hard to say.


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> The timing configurator is from a z690
> 
> I used a preset for my timings, not sure if the hero has the same thing. Under timings, there is a preset, I used the Samsung 2x16 4266 1.45 preset. Then changed to 1T and set 3866 1:1.
> 
> I started with these voltages.
> 1.55v mem
> 1.36v vccio mem oc
> 1.36v vccsa
> 
> The RTL IO is set with that preset, so i didnt really do anything with that. With the apex board there is a section i can mess with that. Which i will probably at some point. Just try upping your vccsa till it boots. Might need 1.4v hard to say.


I use that same preset for my 4266 gear 2 OC but I set 16-16-16-28 primary and 16 tFAW, tXP 0, PPD 0, and some small other tweaks. If I change it to gear 1 3866 the RTL goes to like 70/71 automatically. 

I'll grab ATC from a random Z690 download section tomorrow and test some stuff.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Ok ill play with the RTL and see what i can do.










Edit: set rtl to 40. Now my latency is to 39.3 is the lowest iv seen retrying the latency test afew times over. 39.7 is about average.

Edit 2: well everything seems fine, but on restart i get a 00 or 55 post code. No amount of voltage fixes it. Gotta see where i can post normal. 63 might be what i have to run. Unless there is a timing guru that can help?

Edit 3: 63 is the minimum, anything lower and on restart i get a 55 code. I hit the flex key hit F10 it restarts and boots into windows fine. But wont boot unless i use the flex key/safe boot. Donno.


----------



## Ormy

Imprezzion said:


> Mine on stock Intel ABT + MCE does 158xx and on manual 52x8 + 43 cache + 4266C16 1T RAM (gear 2) 16760. So.. I don't know lol. Was he using stock cache + terrible RAM?


Yeah your numbers are roughly what I'd expect from him. Looking at his HWinfo (11:05 on 4th video) his cache/ring is at 43x and his memory is DDR4 4266MHz 19-19-19-39-747-1T (gear 2) which is not bad at all. Maybe the PC is just full of bloatware that is stealing CPU cycles from cinebench?


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Ok ill play with the RTL and see what i can do.
> 
> View attachment 2559467
> 
> 
> Edit: set rtl to 40. Now my latency is to 39.3 is the lowest iv seen retrying the latency test afew times over. 39.7 is about average.
> 
> Edit 2: well everything seems fine, but on restart i get a 00 or 55 post code. No amount of voltage fixes it. Gotta see where i can post normal. 63 might be what i have to run. Unless there is a timing guru that can help?
> 
> Edit 3: 63 is the minimum, anything lower and on restart i get a 55 code. I hit the flex key hit F10 it restarts and boots into windows fine. But wont boot unless i use the flex key/safe boot. Donno.


Why can't I boot 1T cmd rate at gear 1... Like.. on gear 2 I even run 1T on 4266 (if that does anything on gear 2). Maximus Tweak Mode 2 sets it that way as well. But on 3866C15 gear 1 it just hangs in POST but 2T boots fine. 4 dimm topology not happy with 1T at gear 1 maybe?

Oh and for RTL, I can set whatever value I feel like but the RTL values just don't change. They stay 75/76 no matter what I enter.. I am doing something wrong but so far no one has been able to tell me what exactly lol.


----------



## D-EJ915

Gear 2 1T is not actually 1T rate, it's more like 2T due to controller half speed. That combined with "effective" rate of the controller speed being "crazy" in gear 1 compared to gear 2 hurt it (like 4000 gear 1 is is essentially as if you were running 8000 gear 2).

I kinda want to get some more 11900ks to play around with lol. 12th gen just isn't as fun due to limited ram in ddr5 and no real oc boards for ddr4.


----------



## Arni90

Taint3dBulge said:


> Ok ill play with the RTL and see what i can do.
> 
> View attachment 2559467
> 
> 
> Edit: set rtl to 40. Now my latency is to 39.3 is the lowest iv seen retrying the latency test afew times over. 39.7 is about average.
> 
> Edit 2: well everything seems fine, but on restart i get a 00 or 55 post code. No amount of voltage fixes it. Gotta see where i can post normal. 63 might be what i have to run. Unless there is a timing guru that can help?
> 
> Edit 3: 63 is the minimum, anything lower and on restart i get a 55 code. I hit the flex key hit F10 it restarts and boots into windows fine. But wont boot unless i use the flex key/safe boot. Donno.


ASUS boards can't adjust RTLs manually on Rocket Lake. You have to find and enable Round Trip Latency in the DRAM training algorithms.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Arni90 said:


> ASUS boards can't adjust RTLs manually on Rocket Lake. You have to find and enable Round Trip Latency in the DRAM training algorithms.


You can on the apex boards, as shown on my screen shot. Also round trip is enabled on my board


----------



## Arni90

Taint3dBulge said:


> You can on the apex boards, as shown on my screen shot. Also round trip is enabled on my board


The menu is broken, unless something changed in the last 6 months


----------



## Imprezzion

Bit of tweaking and I was able to drop latency by a LOT. Still on 2T. I wanna try and get full 1T but on a Hero that isn't as easy as it is on a Apex. Northbridge / cache clock in AIDA is wrong due to Balanced power profile. It's 4300. This is at 1.504v DRAM, 1.396v VCCSA, 1.360v VCCIO OC.










I have received the 10900K, which was actually a surprise Avengers Edition which is nice, but I need to wait for RockItCool to send me a new 10th gen direct die frame. I gave mine away and I forgot. Ordered a new one but shipping from US --> Netherlands takes a while..


----------



## Bimppy

I was wondering if this is any good? As I have confirmed my stability on the ram and cpu in p95, memtest, aida64. I originally posted this on reddit and got downvoted instantly because "Gear 1 > Gear 2", but I know that's not always the case

I have also tuned the subtimings, but I would have to take pictures of the bios as the Asrock Timing Config doesn't work for me.


----------



## Imprezzion

Bimppy said:


> I was wondering if this is any good? As I have confirmed my stability on the ram and cpu in p95, memtest, aida64. I originally posted this on reddit and got downvoted instantly because "Gear 1 > Gear 2", but I know that's not always the case
> 
> I have also tuned the subtimings, but I would have to take pictures of the bios as the Asrock Timing Config doesn't work for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559859
> 
> View attachment 2559858


This is exceptionally good. 4400 straight 16's? I wish my mediocre B-Die bin could do that lol. And 44ns latency ain't bad at all. 

Then again, for pure gaming latency technically is more important as even the 60GB/s 3866 gives is plenty. Maybe if you feel like it and the chip can do gear 1 @ 3800/3866 try straight 14's at that?


----------



## Bimppy

Imprezzion said:


> This is exceptionally good. 4400 straight 16's? I wish my mediocre B-Die bin could do that lol. And 44ns latency ain't bad at all.
> 
> Then again, for pure gaming latency technically is more important as even the 60GB/s 3866 gives is plenty. Maybe if you feel like it and the chip can do gear 1 @ 3800/3866 try straight 14's at that?


I have been able to push 4000mhz Gear 1 CR 2, but I did some benchmarks and its like 1 more fps over my 4400mhz settings. My only problem with running it is my IMC gets very very toasty and the ram requires 1.58v for stability.

along with the vccsa and vccio needing a considerable more amount of voltage so I have decided to run this for the bandwidth and just take the 1fps loss.


----------



## Imprezzion

Bimppy said:


> I have been able to push 4000mhz Gear 1 CR 2, but I did some benchmarks and its like 1 more fps over my 4400mhz settings. My only problem with running it is my IMC gets very very toasty and the ram requires 1.58v for stability.
> 
> along with the vccsa and vccio needing a considerable more amount of voltage so I have decided to run this for the bandwidth and just take the 1fps loss.


I got 3 profiles saved in my BIOS, 4266 straight 16's Gear 2 at 1.53v DRAM (1.506 after droop), 1.36v VCCSA and VCCIO OC, that's a very safe and conservative OC, 3866 Gear 1 straight 15's with very tight subtimings @ 1.56v DRAM, 1.43v VCCSA 1.36v VCCIO which I run as a daily now, and 4533 17-18-18 @ 1.60v DRAM 1.45v VCCSA 1.40v VCCIO. All 3 tested perfectly fine in TestMem5 and the likes. But performance at gear 1 3866 is unbeatable.

When I get my direct die frame in from RockItCool for my 10900KA I will probably run something like 4400 straight 17's. The chip is pre binned and delidded and should do 5.3 all core with 5.0 cache + 4400 RAM @ 1.46v vCore which for direct die is totally manageable even in AVX.


----------



## Bimppy

Imprezzion said:


> I got 3 profiles saved in my BIOS, 4266 straight 16's Gear 2 at 1.53v DRAM (1.506 after droop), 1.36v VCCSA and VCCIO OC, that's a very safe and conservative OC, 3866 Gear 1 straight 15's with very tight subtimings @ 1.56v DRAM, 1.43v VCCSA 1.36v VCCIO which I run as a daily now, and 4533 17-18-18 @ 1.60v DRAM 1.45v VCCSA 1.40v VCCIO. All 3 tested perfectly fine in TestMem5 and the likes. But performance at gear 1 3866 is unbeatable.
> 
> When I get my direct die frame in from RockItCool for my 10900KA I will probably run something like 4400 straight 17's. The chip is pre binned and delidded and should do 5.3 all core with 5.0 cache + 4400 RAM @ 1.46v vCore which for direct die is totally manageable even in AVX.


I'm curious as to what kind of performance you get at 3866mhz? Do you have some like gaming benchmarks you could post that are focused just on the cpu/mem since I have a worse gpu than you.

edit: For my 4400mhz CR 1 16-16-16-36-52-330 + subtimings I run 1.54v with droop its around 1.5v with 1.25v vccsa and 1.2v vccio oc.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Imprezzion said:


> Bit of tweaking and I was able to drop latency by a LOT. Still on 2T. I wanna try and get full 1T but on a Hero that isn't as easy as it is on a Apex. Northbridge / cache clock in AIDA is wrong due to Balanced power profile. It's 4300. This is at 1.504v DRAM, 1.396v VCCSA, 1.360v VCCIO OC.
> 
> View attachment 2559792
> 
> 
> I have received the 10900K, which was actually a surprise Avengers Edition which is nice, but I need to wait for RockItCool to send me a new 10th gen direct die frame. I gave mine away and I forgot. Ordered a new one but shipping from US --> Netherlands takes a while..


Nice job. If you have stutters while gaming raise your four active window to 20-22 and possibly the cas write latency to 15-16. Thats what i had to do anyways. Having those clamped down brought down timing latency but does something to have big jarring stutters every few minutes.


----------



## Solohuman

Can't get my 11700k to boot any higher than 3600 for g1 & then only with 16Gb kit SR. This is with MSI Z590 unify board. 
Must have got crap imc with this chip.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Bimppy said:


> I'm curious as to what kind of performance you get at 3866mhz? Do you have some like gaming benchmarks you could post that are focused just on the cpu/mem since I have a worse gpu than you.
> 
> edit: For my 4400mhz CR 1 16-16-16-36-52-330 + subtimings I run 1.54v with droop its around 1.5v with 1.25v vccsa and 1.2v vccio oc.


For me its just the system responsiveness and how incredibly smooth games are once you get under 40ns. Its just day and night difference in shooter games. Especially if you like sniping. Feels like i have cheat codes on lol. Im currently looking for better bdie ram. Would like to run 4000mhz gear 1. But hard to find good 16x2 sticks. Got those 4800mhz sticks, but they were totally garbage micron sticks.


----------



## Bimppy

> For me its just the system responsiveness and how incredibly smooth games are once you get under 40ns. Its just day and night difference in shooter games. Especially if you like sniping. Feels like i have cheat codes on lol. Im currently looking for better bdie ram. Would like to run 4000mhz gear 1. But hard to find good 16x2 sticks. Got those 4800mhz sticks, but they were totally garbage micron sticks.


I see as I used to run a 9900k that had around 35ns on the latency, but tbh I couldn’t feel the difference. I’m currently running the *F4-4400C17D-32GVK.*

This is the one able to run 4000mhz at gear 1 cr 2 with primaries all the same as my 4400mhz.


----------



## Bimppy

Solohuman said:


> Can't get my 11700k to boot any higher than 3600 for g1 & then only with 16Gb kit SR. This is with MSI Z590 unify board.
> Must have got crap imc with this chip.


It’s fine I can barely run anything above 3600mhz without needing a good amount on vccio and vccsa. 

I would just try and tighten up your timings on 3600mhz as much as possible.


----------



## Imprezzion

I might actually drop my OC down to 5.1 all core to be honest. 5.2 works fine but even at LLC6 AC 0.01 DC synced 0.43 and -0.125v V/F offset it still hits around ~1.43v in games which in itself is fine but peak temps are too high for my liking. Hard bursty loads like loading big maps or shader compilation easily sees several cores go above 80c even tho a 60 minute Cinebench R23 Multicore loop only maxes out at 87c it's still something I don't like.

Most of it is to blame on my quick and dirty paste application as there's a 15c delta between hottest and coldest core (88c vs 73c) and the fact I didn't lap anything but I honestly can't be bothered to repaste it as this chip only has to "survive" about 3 weeks before my direct die 10th gen frame shows up and I can put the pre binned direct die 10900KA in but.. voltage + temps = degradation so...

EDIT: help me understand this one.
5.2 sync all cores needs a minimum of 1.372v to run Cinebench R23 stable for 1 full pass. It gets around 16700 points doing so.

5.1 sync all cores so far ran stable as low as 1.279v and it gets 16425 points. That difference is so small there has to be something off here. Either 5.2 is not stable at all and internally throttling even tho there's no indication of any throttling in HWInfo64, or 5.1 for some reason performs way above it's weight. And I'm used to voltage scaling about 0.050v per 100Mhz. Why can I run 5.1 almost 100mV lower... Makes no sense.. 

To be continued..


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Imprezzion said:


> I might actually drop my OC down to 5.1 all core to be honest. 5.2 works fine but even at LLC6 AC 0.01 DC synced 0.43 and -0.125v V/F offset it still hits around ~1.43v in games which in itself is fine but peak temps are too high for my liking. Hard bursty loads like loading big maps or shader compilation easily sees several cores go above 80c even tho a 60 minute Cinebench R23 Multicore loop only maxes out at 87c it's still something I don't like.
> 
> Most of it is to blame on my quick and dirty paste application as there's a 15c delta between hottest and coldest core (88c vs 73c) and the fact I didn't lap anything but I honestly can't be bothered to repaste it as this chip only has to "survive" about 3 weeks before my direct die 10th gen frame shows up and I can put the pre binned direct die 10900KA in but.. voltage + temps = degradation so...
> 
> EDIT: help me understand this one.
> 5.2 sync all cores needs a minimum of 1.372v to run Cinebench R23 stable for 1 full pass. It gets around 16700 points doing so.
> 
> 5.1 sync all cores so far ran stable as low as 1.279v and it gets 16425 points. That difference is so small there has to be something off here. Either 5.2 is not stable at all and internally throttling even tho there's no indication of any throttling in HWInfo64, or 5.1 for some reason performs way above it's weight. And I'm used to voltage scaling about 0.050v per 100Mhz. Why can I run 5.1 almost 100mV lower... Makes no sense..
> 
> To be continued..


Have you tried to just let it do auto? I set my LLC to 4 .20ac .98dc and all voltages and vf curves are at auto and its the best for temps for me ankyways and during game play im sitting at 1.38-1.4 depeding on what i have my cache set to. right now its set to 48x and i see 1.412v iirc. 

The times iv set to LLC 5-7 my idle voltage comes down but during gaming its spiked up pretty hard and gets super warm. As a member here said awhile ago, voltage wont harm your pc, its amperage that will heat it to meltdown.. Just my 2 cents, cause i was with ya awhile ago. Cranking up the LLC seemed like the way to go.. but llc4 is pretty much the sweet spot for the board/chip.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Was able to finally able to get my cache back, needed alot vccsa i guess.


----------



## Yamcha2209

I have been reading on the forums setting TVB optimization to enabled and c-states on helps to mitigate voltage and temp spikes I am on an all core overclock with auto vcore 
Can anyone shed some light into this if this is true ? 

Cheers


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Have you tried to just let it do auto? I set my LLC to 4 .20ac .98dc and all voltages and vf curves are at auto and its the best for temps for me ankyways and during game play im sitting at 1.38-1.4 depeding on what i have my cache set to. right now its set to 48x and i see 1.412v iirc.
> 
> The times iv set to LLC 5-7 my idle voltage comes down but during gaming its spiked up pretty hard and gets super warm. As a member here said awhile ago, voltage wont harm your pc, its amperage that will heat it to meltdown.. Just my 2 cents, cause i was with ya awhile ago. Cranking up the LLC seemed like the way to go.. but llc4 is pretty much the sweet spot for the board/chip.


On all Auto I need to run a much lower offset because it droops more so if I need 1.390v in the hardest workloads like rendering then I'd get 1.464v in gaming due to lower load / amperage thus less droop. LLC6 is the tightest I can get it without it overshooting.

But, I kinda fixed it. I'm running a weird setup now but it works as intended. Sync all cores 51, but with per core max set to x52 for 6 of my cores and x54 for the 2 best ones. Combined that with OCTVB enabled with voltage optimization disabled and +2 boost. That means it wants to run x53 and it does but that is limited by the per core to x53 only on the cores that can actually run x53 thus it works sort of as a 2 core 4 thread 5.3 boost. The others stay at 52. As soon as it starts to get hot around 65c it drops to 51 for all cores as OCTVB still counts the -2 as starting at 53 even tho the cores are limited to btw manually.

Voltage and temperatures are well within check now and playing some games sees it almost always at 5.2 all core.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Will having .20ac .98dc for llc 6 with auto voltage work?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Yamcha2209 said:


> Will having .20ac .98dc for llc 6 with auto voltage work?


Thats for LLC4

LLC 6 would be ~.13ac .73dc iirc


----------



## Arni90

Imprezzion said:


> EDIT: help me understand this one.
> 5.2 sync all cores needs a minimum of 1.372v to run Cinebench R23 stable for 1 full pass. It gets around 16700 points doing so.
> 
> 5.1 sync all cores so far ran stable as low as 1.279v and it gets 16425 points. That difference is so small there has to be something off here. Either 5.2 is not stable at all and internally throttling even tho there's no indication of any throttling in HWInfo64, or 5.1 for some reason performs way above it's weight. And I'm used to voltage scaling about 0.050v per 100Mhz. Why can I run 5.1 almost 100mV lower... Makes no sense..
> 
> To be continued..


Seems normal to me:
16425 * 5.2/5.1 = 16747
16700 * 5.1/5.2 = 16378
Not quite linear scaling with frequency, but very close. 

_Why can I run 5.1 almost 100mV lower... Makes no sense.._

Because Rocket Lake scales terribly with voltage.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Yamcha2209 said:


> Will having .20ac .98dc for llc 6 with auto voltage work?





Taint3dBulge said:


> Thats for LLC4
> 
> LLC 6 would be ~.13ac .73dc iirc


Thank you kind sir


----------



## Yamcha2209

Yamcha2209 said:


> Thank you kind sir


Sorry what is iirc?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Yamcha2209 said:


> Sorry what is iirc?


 IIRC - If i recall correctly


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hahaha fail on my part. 

Thanks for the clarification


----------



## Imprezzion

Arni90 said:


> Seems normal to me:
> 16425 * 5.2/5.1 = 16747
> 16700 * 5.1/5.2 = 16378
> Not quite linear scaling with frequency, but very close.
> 
> _Why can I run 5.1 almost 100mV lower... Makes no sense.._
> 
> Because Rocket Lake scales terribly with voltage.


Well yeah, that makes sense. Maths. And I expected RKL to scale similar to CML but it totally doesn't. 

So yeah, basically OCTVB does what it is designed to do. Allows higher clocks at lower temps and scales down when it has to. OCTVB is the way to go if you wanna squeeze every last bit of performance out of it.


----------



## Solohuman

Bimppy said:


> It’s fine I can barely run anything above 3600mhz without needing a good amount on vccio and vccsa.
> 
> I would just try and tighten up your timings on 3600mhz as much as possible.


Thanks, it can do 4800 Ram (gear 2 obviously) with 32GB kit - MT86, Windows memory diagnostics & Memtestpro @ 400 % coverage stable though.


----------



## Solohuman

For those on MSI boards, use cpu light load options under advanced cpu config menu. MSI have already done the hard yards researching & applying a wide range of auto voltage parameters for every quality of cpu silicon with RKL. 
I've been using this method for the last 4 months & have no issues whatsoever, at least with benching & gaming.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I wonder if anyone got their hands on a 11900KB








Intel® Core™ i9-11900KB Processor (24M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel


Intel® Core™ i9-11900KB Processor (24M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.




www.intel.com


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> I wonder if anyone got their hands on a 11900KB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel® Core™ i9-11900KB Processor (24M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
> 
> 
> Intel® Core™ i9-11900KB Processor (24M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.intel.com


The KB isn't a socket chip. It's BGA for prebuilds, Intel NUC's and laptops.

Thanks to running Gear 1 3866 and it needing higher VCCSA and IO OC I was able to get the cache 1 bin higher to 44. I am still very surprised to see as high as 48 in here. My chip doesn't even POST 48, freezes Windows loading 47 and crashes within minutes on 46. 45 is kind of ok but has the occasional WHEA L0 error or a lockup idle, 44 seems fine now where it wasn't before.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I think im done tinking for awhile. Been at it for weeks. But this is going to be my daily. Could prob tweak the voltages a bit more but its 100% stable and runs just amazing with any game i play, not a stutter. Can run 48 cache, but then my cpu temps go up about 8-10c while gaming. So not worth it.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

I lied, decided to bring CKE to 4 and tWRRD to sg25 and dg21. Not really any difference. But ill leave it. CKE works fine at 1, but i get higher latency, at 4 its a smidge less. Though i read you want it at 1 if you can.

Edit: doing anything under 6 with cke introduces stutters in games. However, the responsiveness to pick things up or open doors, get in or out of vehicles is faster. Almost feels like it happens before you hit the button.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Taint3dBulge said:


> Thats for LLC4
> 
> LLC 6 would be ~.13ac .73dc iirc


Would you know the values for LLC7 for ac dc 
Thank you


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Yamcha2209 said:


> Would you know the values for LLC7 for ac dc
> Thank you


For DC:
LLC1: 1.75
LLC2: 1.46 
LLC3: 1.1
LLC4: 0.98 
LLC5: 0.73 
LLC6: 0.49 
LLC7: 0.24 
LLC8: 0.01

For AC I'd probably just go with .01 for llc7


----------



## Yamcha2209

Thank you


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Got tCKE at 1 now.  just took 1.44v vccio mem oc 1.55v ram and 1.48v vccsa. Booted right up too. Usually the sytem has to shut down several times before it will post when i put any timing in for that. Now should i try to get N1 working?

Also whats the difference between N1 and 1:N


----------



## Imprezzion

Taint3dBulge said:


> Got tCKE at 1 now.  just took 1.44v vccio mem oc 1.55v ram and 1.48v vccsa. Booted right up too. Usually the sytem has to shut down several times before it will post when i put any timing in for that. Now should i try to get N1 working?
> 
> Also whats the difference between N1 and 1:N


No one seems to know. Even on Reddit I can't find any explanation what 1:N is. I can't do 1N/1T anyway in gear 1. It will in gear 2 all the way up to 4533Mhz but gear 1 only 3600 or lower. I did have some weird crashes with 240 tRFC and 9 tWR even tho it tested stable in TM5. There's something not happy with it. I went back to just 280 tRFC and 10 tWR at much lower volts and it's happy again. Been playing some Division 2 with the new gear and season and some World War 3 closed beta with a 5 stack squad and it's a lot of fun and both games run amazing on gear 1 3866C15. 

On a sidenote, my direct die frame from RockItCool left the US Saturday towards the Netherlands so. Hopefully soon I can play with my direct die 10900KA a bit and see what that puppy can do. Shooting for 55x2 54x4 53x10 with 50 cache and 4400 straight 17's for the RAM.


----------



## Arni90

Imprezzion said:


> No one seems to know. Even on Reddit I can't find any explanation what 1:N is. I can't do 1N/1T anyway in gear 1. It will in gear 2 all the way up to 4533Mhz but gear 1 only 3600 or lower. I did have some weird crashes with 240 tRFC and 9 tWR even tho it tested stable in TM5. There's something not happy with it. I went back to just 280 tRFC and 10 tWR at much lower volts and it's happy again. Been playing some Division 2 with the new gear and season and some World War 3 closed beta with a 5 stack squad and it's a lot of fun and both games run amazing on gear 1 3866C15.
> 
> On a sidenote, my direct die frame from RockItCool left the US Saturday towards the Netherlands so. Hopefully soon I can play with my direct die 10900KA a bit and see what that puppy can do. Shooting for 55x2 54x4 53x10 with 50 cache and 4400 straight 17's for the RAM.


N:1 mode allows the IMC to perform like 1T for N cycles, before 1 cycle of waiting is implemented.
With N = 1, you're basically similar to AMD's Gear Down Mode
N = 3, you get 3 cycles of 1T before 1 cycle of waiting.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Arni90 said:


> N:1 mode allows the IMC to perform like 1T for N cycles, before 1 cycle of waiting is implemented.
> With N = 1, you're basically similar to AMD's Gear Down Mode
> N = 3, you get 3 cycles of 1T before 1 cycle of waiting.


So N:1 would be the hardest stabilize and have the quickest clock cycles. But 1N would be a tad faster then 2N.


----------



## Arni90

Taint3dBulge said:


> So N:1 would be the hardest stabilize and have the quickest clock cycles. But 1N would be a tad faster then 2N.


No, 1N is the hardest, N:1 = 7 is easier, down to N:1 = 1, then 2N, and 3N...


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Ahh ok, thats why i asked, wasnt 100% sure.

What would you say a safe 247 vccsa voltage would be for everyday use. Right now i need 1.475 in windows to be stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

I don't feel comfortable going over 1.40v (actual measured, not set) personally.

Well, that was weird. It's been perfectly stable for a week, gamed on it all afternoon, then suddenly it hard locked out of nowhere and refused to POST with code 55. I only got it to POST after CLR CMOS and reseating the RAM. Then it wouldn't load anything besides safe mode. Even XMP off optimized defaults wouldn't load.

Eventually got it back up and running after reseating the RAM a second time after which it would load the OC profile again.. odd..

I wonder if my old B-Die kit after years of abuse is finally getting less happy...

I mean, if the CPU dies, it's a shame but I got a spare 10900KA laying around so not the end of the world. If the board dies, shame, but a MSI Z590 Ace can be bought new for like 200 bucks nowadays locally so also not that bad. Finding another well binned 32GB B-Die kit is a lot harder and more expensive lol.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Intel says max is 1.52 vccsa. I had to back off to cl15 the voltages were just to much to keep that happy. Almost 1.5v vccsa, 1.44v vccio and 1.58v ram voltage. Just going back to cl15 everything else the same im at 1.44v vccsa 1.4v io and 1.5v ram. I thats where im at now after numerus 4 hour ram stress tests with OCCT.


----------



## TheHunter

Hi,

Does new microcode with security fix have some latency impact?
A friend with 10700k said apparently he lost 7ns.. I told him you proably forgot to disable powerdown mode by ram, but he got angry xD..


----------



## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does new microcode with security fix have some latency impact?
> A friend with 10700k said apparently he lost 7ns.. I told him you proably forgot to disable powerdown mode by ram, but he got angry xD..


Possible, the previous spectre/meltdown patches had an impact as well on my 9900K back then even tho I disable those on Windows nowadays.

I made a new setup for my OC and even tho it seems stable as in, it doesn't crash or error in a stress test or games, I do get a load of WHEA errors related to PCI-E bus in HWInfo64. What could cause this?

The setup I run: Sync all cores 51, per core max set to 53 53 52 52 52 52 52 52, OCTVB enabled +2 Boost. This means it runs 5.1 base but boosts to 5.3 for 2 core loads or 5.2 for all core loads if the OCTVB perimeters are met. Cache 43. RAM 3866 straight 15's Gear 1 @ 1.50v. Auto vCore with V/F curve adjusted, LLC6, AC 0.01 DC 0.43 (matched to LLC), VCCSA 1.43 set 1.39 get, VCCIO OC 1.36v. vCore runs around 1.430v for 5.2 boost and 1.504v for 5.3 boost. 5.1 is 1.334v.

It's a toasty setup even with full custom loop but OCTVB works miracles and drops the frequency as intended as it gets too hot (around 72c) so actual temps are great and most games just run 5.2 except for stuff like Cinebench or Prime which drop to 5.1 but keep temps well in check. Highest I've seen is 82c. I have to repaste the chip as the Delta between cores is like 16c so bad paste or concave/convex IHS/block but this chip isn't staying. I have a 10900KA delidded direct die but I'm waiting for the RockItCool direct die plate to show up from the USA.


----------



## D-EJ915

There's a few threads for chasing ghosts trying to figure out what causes pcie root hub wheas, seems different fixes for every person, some get fixed by bios updates and some not.


----------



## Imprezzion

D-EJ915 said:


> There's a few threads for chasing ghosts trying to figure out what causes pcie root hub wheas, seems different fixes for every person, some get fixed by bios updates and some not.


Yeah I have 2 causes somehow. One is related to the Thunderbolt controller. If I have that enabled I get root errors, with it off I don't. And since I reset the BIOS and the profile I loaded didn't have it disabled that did it. The other one is idle c-states / EIST and running the 2 best cores at 54. It's stable under load but if it quickly clocks up and down from 800 to 5400 and back it sometimes gives a WHEA. On 5.3 it's fine. 

I quickly pulled my block off and did a check with a razor to see if the chip or the block is very concave or convex and to my surprise they are both very flat so I didn't lap it (I was planning to) but just slapped some Liquid Ultra on it as it's a nickel block and IHS so it shouldn't eat or need a cure time. It dropped temps about 8c average and core delta's are much closer. Went from 87c hottest core Cinebench R23 to 79c at 5.2. The previous Prolimatech PK-3 application had a smal air pocket in it according to the imprint. Must've moved the block or something when I did that mount.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

After the last windows 11 patch i lost 1ns. Nice, was sitting at 39.9-40 now at 39-39.2. can any of you can confirm this? No idea why it went down.


----------



## PachAz

What vcore would you expect for a 5ghz all core OC on a 11900k? I am testing with Prime95 custom blend. I am currently using 1.37v in bios which gives me 1.368v in OS and 1.320v under load. All power savings and turbo features are off.


----------



## WebsterRKL

This RKL 11600K build log has me drooling buckets. Who's is it anyway? 








Fastest Typewriter Build on Planet Earth lol - adds...


The "before" image utilizing the extremely large Noctua NH-P1 passive heatsink in active configuration: Components already in parts drawer - no need to purchase: 40 to 60 Bitspower Deluxe White "Ultimate" fittings, 45degree 90degree 60degree rotaries, triple rotary-snake, passthroughs, stop...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Solohuman

D-EJ915 said:


> There's a few threads for chasing ghosts trying to figure out what causes pcie root hub wheas, seems different fixes for every person, some get fixed by bios updates and some not.


I had those errors on my Z590 Gigabyte Aorus Ultra but not on my Z590 MSI unify with exactly the same components & OC settings.


----------



## Solohuman

Have any RKL owners had success in getting BCLK overclocking stable? what bios setting did you use for voltages, etc..
Experimenting with this now, see how far I can get it before crashes, bsod, etc..


----------



## Arni90

Never used base clock long-term, but did use it for some competitions on M13 Apex, no issues going for 130 MHz base clock.

I would expect base clock on Rocket Lake to have similar limitations to LGA1151, meaning that 150 MHz should be no problem.


----------



## Solohuman

Arni90 said:


> Never used base clock long-term, but did use it for some competitions on M13 Apex, no issues going for 130 MHz base clock.
> 
> I would expect base clock on Rocket Lake to have similar limitations to LGA1151, meaning that 150 MHz should be no problem.


Thanks, I got my rig to only a measly 102Mhz BCLK & passes MT86, Microsoft's memory diagnostics default test but when running memtest pro (good for IMC stability) one of the threads displays errors. All that despite very relaxed timings on my Hynix DJR kit. Don't know what's going on here but the board is updated with the latest official bios too. I dropped the multi on the cpu & the ringbus as well.


----------



## pipes

this is my result after 1 hour of occt stress test, but memory don't want go fine temp max 70° C


----------



## pipes

My problem or I think is a problem, new CPU: i9-11900kf on a MSI z490 unify don't like oc on ram, very strong a 10700kf. I try to overclock ring and it doesn't want much voltage, 43x with automatic voltage that does not exceed 0.990 mv. same with core clock then it want more of 1.29 / .30 volt with 52x

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Solohuman

pipes said:


> My problem or I think is a problem, new CPU: i9-11900kf on a MSI z490 unify don't like oc on ram, very strong a 10700kf. I try to overclock ring and it doesn't want much voltage, 43x with automatic voltage that does not exceed 0.990 mv. same with core clock then it want more of 1.29 / .30 volt with 52x
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I'm not comet lake expert but have seen reports around the net that rocket lake is optimised for 500 series platforms & in particular for enthusiasts on Z590 chipset boards. I mean rocket lake will work on Z490 but not as good as Z590.


----------



## Imprezzion

11900K cache clocks are very hit and miss anyway. My 11900K didn't wanna go any higher then 4.4 even on ridiculous voltages and on more normal 24/7 voltages 4.3 was the best I could get out of it even on a Z590 Maximus XIII Hero. 

As far as RAM goes, gear 1 is the way to go on 11th gen regardless of chipset. Shoot for 3800/3866 gear 1 with as tight as possible timings.


----------



## pipes

I thought it was a problem of the model f SKU that I decided to take because I have a z490 unify, I can't understand this CPU because true, the cache manages to rise to 44 with 1.10 instead the core reaches 50x with 1.35. I don't understand the need to put two gears, if you then have to lose latency and hardly get to 4200 in second gear

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> I thought it was a problem of the model f SKU that I decided to take because I have a z490 unify, I can't understand this CPU because true, the cache manages to rise to 44 with 1.10 instead the core reaches 50x with 1.35. I don't understand the need to put two gears, if you then have to lose latency and hardly get to 4200 in second gear
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I never understood the change either especially since 10th gen can run whatever you want without gears.

I could push to 4533C17 on gear 2 on the 11900K with VCCIO OC at 1.3 and VCCSA at 1.36 but it had way worse latency then 3866C14 had even tho bandwidth was higher. I needed 1.364v vCore to run 51 core 43 cache with above IO/SA for gear 1 3866 14-15-15-28-270-2T. Maybe worth a try on your chip?


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## pipes

I tried my chip, ram side and it can't boot with 4200 cl18 Gear 2, while the 10700kf is stable at 4266 cl15 with the ripjawsV f4-4800c17d

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## pipes

since I am fixed on the purchase of f SKU models, because, as I remember it seems that they heat up a little less due to the active absence of the igpu. do you say it is better to buy k or kf SKU models? and for what reason?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> since I am fixed on the purchase of f SKU models, because, as I remember it seems that they heat up a little less due to the active absence of the igpu. do you say it is better to buy k or kf SKU models? and for what reason?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


There's no real world measurable difference in CPU OC performance. The KF was ever so slightly better on average back when Silicon Lottery webshop still existed but I always just bought whichever was cheaper for 10th and 11th gen K vs KF. I like having a iGPU for when my GPU dies or whatever for troubleshooting or BIOS flashing.


----------



## pipes

Thank you for answer

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## TheHunter

Ok so i got rog hero xiii and i have to say its crap.

My old z490 unify does better job at 11700kf cpuv and ram stability as funny as that sounds, at least in gear1.


Rog hero cant boot 3600 cl14-15-15, msi unify np, even does it at lower SA 1.31v, hero auto sets 1.375v.

Gear2 rog hero boots 4400, my default royal silver 4400 cl17, but for that i now see it uses 4266mhz strap.. another fail. Also a lot more SA and IO2, when i lower blck to 100 it also lowers SA and IO2 to more reasonable lvl.

Also cpu oc in general in meh, unify 5ghz all core needs 1.30v with cache 4ghz, no such thing possible on hero..

That said im in huge dilema, im thinking to put back my z490unfiy.


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## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> Ok so i got rog hero xiii and i have to say its crap.
> 
> My old z490 unify does better job at 11700kf cpuv and ram stability as funny as that sounds, at least in gear1.
> 
> 
> Rog hero cant boot 3600 cl14-15-15, msi unify np, even does it at lower SA 1.31v, hero auto sets 1.375v.
> 
> Gear2 rog hero boots 4400, my default royal silver 4400 cl17, but for that i now see it uses 4266mhz strap.. another fail. Also a lot more SA and IO2, when i lower blck to 100 it also lowers SA and IO2 to more reasonable lvl.
> 
> Also cpu oc in general in meh, unify 5ghz all core needs 1.30v with cache 4ghz, no such thing possible on hero..
> 
> That said im in huge dilema, im thinking to put back my z490unfiy.


I have had a Z490 Ace (basically a Unify) and now have a Z590 Hero. I kinda agree. The Ace was a million times easier to work with especially RAM wise. The only real downside to the Ace/Unify is not being able to set Cache Min frequency and thus it becomes horribly unstable at high cache OC frequencies when using speedstep / EIST and c-states. The Hero handles this way better and can clock whatever I want for the cache without weird idle freezes. 

RAM did clock higher on the Ace. Not a huge difference but 4400C17 was possible on the Ace at quite tight subtimings whereas the Hero will not run it stable. 

I miss my Z490 Ace..


----------



## TheHunter

I will try some more settings today, been looking this thread again, ideally im looking at gear1 3733 and gear 2 4266..

Looks like i will have to give up on 4400, and by the looks of it 3733 too.. earlier msi bios did 3733, but that was on 2x8GB, now on 2x16 no way possible unless I use SA over 1.4v+?

Old 2x8 needed 1.38v SA, 1.25v IO2 for 3733, now I need both SA and Io2 at 1.31v to get it stable at 3600, at least on unify.

Hero yeah needs 1.38v SA, io2 1.24v for 3600, did a 3733 test and no boot.. code 36a? I think idk atm.

Btw Im using the very latest hero bios, is older better?


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## pipes

TheHunter said:


> Ok so i got rog hero xiii and i have to say its crap.
> 
> My old z490 unify does better job at 11700kf cpuv and ram stability as funny as that sounds, at least in gear1.
> 
> 
> Rog hero cant boot 3600 cl14-15-15, msi unify np, even does it at lower SA 1.31v, hero auto sets 1.375v.
> 
> Gear2 rog hero boots 4400, my default royal silver 4400 cl17, but for that i now see it uses 4266mhz strap.. another fail. Also a lot more SA and IO2, when i lower blck to 100 it also lowers SA and IO2 to more reasonable lvl.
> 
> Also cpu oc in general in meh, unify 5ghz all core needs 1.30v with cache 4ghz, no such thing possible on hero..
> 
> That said im in huge dilema, im thinking to put back my z490unfiy.


I use unify and 11900kf no work fine, 5.0 GHz stable with 1.35 volt, cache 45 and sa voltage at 1.20 but ram side is not good with f4-4800c17d-gvk then boot over 4000 mhz

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Imprezzion

TheHunter said:


> I will try some more settings today, been looking this thread again, ideally im looking at gear1 3733 and gear 2 4266..
> 
> Looks like i will have to give up on 4400, and by the looks of it 3733 too.. earlier msi bios did 3733, but that was on 2x8GB, now on 2x16 no way possible unless I use SA over 1.4v+?
> 
> Old 2x8 needed 1.38v SA, 1.25v IO2 for 3733, now I need both SA and Io2 at 1.31v to get it stable at 3600, at least on unify.
> 
> Hero yeah needs 1.38v SA, io2 1.24v for 3600, did a 3733 test and no boot.. code 36a? I think idk atm.
> 
> Btw Im using the very latest hero bios, is older better?


I ran my 11900K bad bin at 3800C14 gear 1 with 1.30v VCCIO OC and something along the lines of 1.39v SA. Gear 2 4266C15 around 1.36v VCCIO OC and 1.45v SA. But that chip was horrible. I was on latest BIOS as well, still am on the same BIOS but just switched back to a 10900K which behaves a lot better so far.


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## TheHunter

So I tired to manually override SA to 1.31v and it seems to work and is stable atm, when I did the same for cpuv it does but not vid, MSI did both.. Now cpu vid still jumps over 1.4v.. what gives?

Also and this is a big one

Intel latency checker 3.9a shows much higher latency then on MSI z490unify, in both cases power down off: msi I got 37ns, while on Hero (PPD=1) 45ns..

Aida64 shows 42ns, while on msi it showed 4ns higher with disabled powerdown mode,..


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## bscool

TheHunter said:


> So I tired to manually override SA to 1.31v and it seems to work and is stable atm, when I did the same for cpuv it does but not vid, MSI did both.. Now cpu vid still jumps over 1.4v.. what gives?
> 
> Also and this is a big one
> 
> Intel latency checker 3.9a shows much higher latency then on MSI z490unify, in both cases power down off: msi I got 37ns, while on Hero (PPD=1) 45ns..
> 
> Aida64 shows 42ns, while on msi it showed 4ns higher with disabled powerdown mode,..


Have you tried ppd0 or not touch it? I owned both z490 Unify and z590 Hero and Hero is better with 11th gen cpu for memory OC. Latency can hit around 38ns in gear 1 on z590 Hero when set up correctly

PPD is backwards on z490 Unify when using 11th gen CPU with it.

z590 MB will have better copy perfomance when uisng 11th gen cpu compared to any z490 MB. I compared/tested z490/z590 Apex, z490/z590 Hero, z490 Unify, z590 UNify X and it applies to all when using 11th gen CPU and comparing memory copy #s. Also z590 MB will have around 1.5ns lower latency than z490 MB using same settings.

Edit also you said you got 37ns latency on MSI z490, is that will 10th gen cpu? If so cant compare 10th and 11th gen #.

If was with 11th gen can you post screenshots as that is a very low latency for z490 MB and 11th gen cpu.


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## TheHunter

bscool said:


> Have you tried ppd0 or not touch it? I owned both z490 Unify and z590 Hero and Hero is better with 11th gen cpu for memory OC. Latency can hit around 38ns in gear 1 on z590 Hero when set up correctly
> 
> PPD is backwards on z490 Unify when using 11th gen CPU with it.
> 
> z590 MB will have better copy perfomance when uisng 11th gen cpu compared to any z490 MB. I compared/tested z490/z590 Apex, z490/z590 Hero, z490 Unify, z590 UNify X and it applies to all when using 11th gen CPU and comparing memory copy #s. Also z590 MB will have around 1.5ns lower latency than z490 MB using same settings.
> 
> Edit also you said you got 37ns latency on MSI z490, is that will 10th gen cpu? If so cant compare 10th and 11th gen #.
> 
> If was with 11th gen can you post screenshots as that is a very low latency for z490 MB and 11th gen cpu.


If i try to set ppd 0 it freezes bios , only auto or 1 is ok.

Copy write is maybe 1gb/s faster on z590.

I had both i5 10500 and now 11700kf on that z490. i5 was more like a temp cpu back then


Z590 shows better latency in aida64, but in intel mlc 3.9 it's worse then on z490.


Z490 with powerdown off completely and 11700kf is 36-37ns max, seen it even 35,8ns few times,

Z590 ppd 1 45ns, same with it at auto. 


I will post it when i get home from work, I did some excessive testing back then, because z490 powerdown instead of lowering it raised it 4ns in aida64, while it "worked" correctly in intel mlc and showed lower,. If i left it default powerdown auto(enabled) it showed around 40ns in intel mlc.

I think i posted it here too once in 24/7 memory oc thread.. let me search for it


----------



## TheHunter

Ok found my post









MSI MEG Z490 ACE & UNIFY Overclocking Club


when I change a value in the BIOS settings and then I press F10 to save and exit the screen freezes and I have to switch to restart Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk




www.overclock.net


----------



## bscool

TheHunter said:


> Ok found my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI MEG Z490 ACE & UNIFY Overclocking Club
> 
> 
> when I change a value in the BIOS settings and then I press F10 to save and exit the screen freezes and I have to switch to restart Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Your latency in those is not 37 on Unify?

I dont have the z590 Hero anymore and only screeenshot I can find is 3600c14 XMP aida64. I do remember though with higher cache clocks and tighter subtimings it would do around 38ns latency.

Edit just cecked and my z590 Apex sets ppd0 by default and from what I remember ppd does nothing on z590 MB with 11th gen cpu. Test it for yourself and use memtweak it to view it in Windows. I cannot even change it as setting to 1 in bios still shows 0 when booted in Windows and makes 0 difference in latnency.


----------



## Imprezzion

I had around 36.3ns average on Z490 Ace with 4266C15-17-17-28-270 PPD 0 and now have 36.8 average on Z590 Hero at the same memory timings with slightly worse RTL/IO as for some reason the Z590 Hero won't train anywhere near as low of a IO-L as the Z490 Ace would. Same OS install. The difference is very small but sort of measurable. Mine is fine doing PPD 0 tho. No freezes or weirdness. Both measured on a 10900K however it's not the same chip. The Z490 one ran 5.2 all core 4.7 cache, this one runs 5.3 all core 5.0 cache with OCTVB up to 5.4 all core / 5.5 single core. I didn't run my 11900K on the Z490 Ace so no direct comparison with 11th gen. On this Z590 Hero with 11900K 5.1 all core 4.4 cache with gear 2 4400 17-17-17 latency is horrible. Like 41ns range. I no longer use the 11900K and it's just a spare CPU in my hardware stash now for when my 10900K blows up or degrades too much .


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## TheHunter

bscool said:


> Your latency in those is not 37 on Unify?
> 
> I dont have the z590 Hero anymore and only screeenshot I can find is 3600c14 XMP aida64. I do remember though with higher cache clocks and tighter subtimings it would do around 38ns latency.
> 
> Edit just cecked and my z590 Apex sets ppd0 by default and from what I remember ppd does nothing on z590 MB with 11th gen cpu. Test it for yourself and use memtweak it to view it in Windows. I cannot even change it as setting to 1 in bios still shows 0 when booted in Windows and makes 0 difference in latnency.


In intel memory latency checker it is, even lower 35.7ns in that said screenshot, when i run the same test on hero xiii z590 is 45ns.


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## bscool

Intel document showing ppd is controlled by TXP.









Intel® Core™ Processors Technical Resources


Intel® Core™ processors technical resources list includes applications notes, datasheets, packing information, product briefs, and more.




www.intel.com





But I know MSI z490 has this messed up and if you set it to 1 helps with latency with 11th gen CPU but on z590 MB with 11th gen CPU should have no effect.


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## TheHunter

But i still dont understand why its so high by intel mlc and z590, almost 10ns higher..


I tired to tweak txp=5 or 7 once on z490 and it helped by aida 64 latency 2-3ns or so lower, think i got close to 40ns with that, but it made gfx corruption in games, ok only Destiny2 since i play that 99% of the time. So i turned it off (default) and havent touched it since.


----------



## bscool

TheHunter said:


> But i still dont understand why its so high by intel mlc and z590, almost 10ns higher..
> 
> 
> I tired to tweak txp=5 or 7 once on z490 and it helped by aida 64 latency 2-3ns or so lower, think i got close to 40ns with that, but it made gfx corruption in games, ok only Destiny2 since i play that 99% of the time. So i turned it off (default) and havent touched it since.


I dont know. I havent really used IMLC much on z590.

Outside of any benchmarks not like you can tell a difference if using the Unify or Hero. So go with whatever makes you "feel" better


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## TheHunter

Yeah ive put unify back in, just feel more comfortable with it 😄


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## TheHunter

So I tested gear2 again back on unifiy and 4326mhz CL16 is not bad with this new ram, close to 4400 cl17 stock xmp, or maybe even better?










Im using twrrd and twrwr at 8 because it makes better write vs 7 (which is ~ 1.8gb/s slower), and trdwr at 14 because it scores better in cpuz single threaded vs 13, twr/trtp 20/10, looks smoother ingame vs 16/8 











ok here I tested cache 42x instead of 40x, but 40x looks to be ideal needs 0.05v less, Im doing - 0.70v offset which makes it ~ 1.35v full load (default 50x multi needs only 1.285v).









latency "glitch" with powerdown =0, if enabled its exactly 4ns lower., while exactly the opposite by intel mlc, 4ns higher if enabled.. 😅


----------



## pipes

Only for me no work asrock timing?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Arni90

For the guys here who still use Rocket Lake, it's a solid contender for the Intel Open OC Championship: Arni90`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 4min 39sec 846ms with a Core i9 11900K

I haven't tried going for max frequency yet, but 5.9 GHz should be in range.


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## SACBALLZ

Would you guys upgrade from 10700k to 11900k for $150 USD?


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## pipes

SACBALLZ said:


> Would you guys upgrade from 10700k to 11900k for $150 USD?


Do not use a series 400 boards. I had use a 11900kf with zero overclock ram and cpu

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## SACBALLZ

pipes said:


> Do not use a series 400 boards. I had use a 11900kf with zero overclock ram and cpu
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk





pipes said:


> Do not use a series 400 boards. I had use a 11900kf with zero overclock ram and cpu
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Okay. I'm using a z590e rog strix on my 10700k, latest bios.


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## Arni90

SACBALLZ said:


> Would you guys upgrade from 10700k to 11900k for $150 USD?


Absolute minimum upgrade that makes sense is a 12600K for you


----------



## storm-chaser

Arni90 said:


> For the guys here who still use Rocket Lake, it's a solid contender for the Intel Open OC Championship: Arni90`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 4min 39sec 846ms with a Core i9 11900K
> 
> I haven't tried going for max frequency yet, but 5.9 GHz should be in range.


DICE?


----------



## Arni90

storm-chaser said:


> DICE?


No, the competition is for ambient overclocking. However, round 1 is finished, so your chances of winning are slim-to-none.

DICE would likely be able to get a run at 6 GHz, considering my own PB is at 5.8 GHz with the same cooling: Arni90`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 4min 24sec 555ms with a Core i9 11900K


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## storm-chaser

Can you pass a CPUz benchmark test 


Arni90 said:


> No, the competition is for ambient overclocking. However, round 1 is finished, so your chances of winning are slim-to-none.
> 
> DICE would likely be able to get a run at 6 GHz, considering my own PB is at 5.8 GHz with the same cooling: Arni90`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 4min 24sec 555ms with a Core i9 11900K





Arni90 said:


> No, the competition is for ambient overclocking. However, round 1 is finished, so your chances of winning are slim-to-none.
> 
> DICE would likely be able to get a run at 6 GHz, considering my own PB is at 5.8 GHz with the same cooling: Arni90`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 4min 24sec 555ms with a Core i9 11900K


at 5.8GHz? I would suspect so...


----------



## Arni90

storm-chaser said:


> Can you pass a CPUz benchmark test
> 
> 
> at 5.8GHz? I would suspect so...


Lol, this was _barely_ stable enough for SuperPI 32M, there's no way that setup will be able to run the CPU-Z benchmark even with only 3 cores enabled.


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## TheHunter

pipes said:


> this is my result after 1 hour of occt stress test, but memory don't want go fine temp max 70° C
> View attachment 2565831


So you went back to 10700K because of "bad ram oc", a bit dumb. 😅

wish I had that 11900kf, mine does 5.0ghz at that voltage, 5.1 already needs 1.38v and temps get out of control lol

If I were you I would ditch that ram atm and get something from g.skill , here proven 4400xmp g.skill royal silver on my z490 unify and worse processor. The key was in ODT , wr 80 , nom 40, park 48















4400 cl17-17-17 runs 42.5ns with powerdown off. Vs gear1 360 cl14-14-14 35-36ns..





Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Speichertakt ab 4400MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 17 Preisvergleich Geizhals EU


Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Speichertakt ab 4400MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 17




geizhals.eu





Im playing Destiny2 99% of the time and it runs the same as in gear1, if not slightly faster at 4400, smoother picture.


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## pipes

TheHunter said:


> So you went back to 10700K because of "bad ram oc", a bit dumb. [emoji28]
> 
> wish I had that 11900kf, mine does 5.0ghz at that voltage, 5.1 already needs 1.38v and temps get out of control lol
> 
> If I were you I would ditch that ram atm and get something from g.skill , here proven 4400xmp g.skill royal silver on my z490 unify and worse processor. The key was in ODT , wr 80 , nom 40, park 48
> View attachment 2568963
> 
> 
> 
> 4400 cl17-17-17 runs 42.5ns with powerdown off. Vs gear1 360 cl14-14-14 35-36ns..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Speichertakt ab 4400MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 17 Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
> 
> 
> Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Speichertakt ab 4400MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> geizhals.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im playing Destiny2 99% of the time and it runs the same as in gear1, if not slightly faster at 4400, smoother picture.


in the end I did a harder stress test like prime95 and occt linoack as far as I remember and it crashed right away, so I guess I was on the verge of crashing without the stress test.

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## tps3443

I’ve got a sweet 11900K. I’ve been running it for over a year now on a Z590 Dark. Literally the best 11900K I have ever seen. 


I’ll post up some benches and results. They should have made all 11900K’s like this.


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## tps3443

SACBALLZ said:


> Would you guys upgrade from 10700k to 11900k for $150 USD?


Absolutely!! This is a worthy upgrade. Especially if it’s a decent sample 11900K. The IPC uplifts are very good. And the (8) core 11900K in multithreaded stuff performs equivalent to a 10900K (10) core. However, in games the 11900K is a beast. Another option would be finding a very well binned 10900K. 

Honestly, most of the comparisons and reviews of the 11900K are on old firmware with poor configuration settings. I own an 11900K and I’d be a fool to go blow money on a new motherboard, new memory, and a new processor just to upgrade to 12th Gen and gain hardly anything. You would spend more, and gain the same or less with a 12600K.

Properly configured 11900K really dominates in games, and with how most games use cores your not going to gain anything substantial going from an 11900K to even a 12900K.

I can show you some impressive stuff from an 11900K. Which is why I’ve decided not to upgrade, and to just keep it for the long term until something worthy comes a long.


----------



## Arni90

I love my 11900K and Apex XIII, it's a really fun benching platform. I would still not recommend getting it over an i5-12600K, the power consumption and motherboard requirements are too great.


----------



## napata

tps3443 said:


> Absolutely!! This is a worthy upgrade. Especially if it’s a decent sample 11900K. The IPC uplifts are very good. And the (8) core 11900K in multithreaded stuff performs equivalent to a 10900K (10) core. However, in games the 11900K is a beast. Another option would be finding a very well binned 10900K.
> 
> Honestly, most of the comparisons and reviews of the 11900K are on old firmware with poor configuration settings. I own an 11900K and I’d be a fool to go blow money on a new motherboard, new memory, and a new processor just to upgrade to 12th Gen and gain hardly anything. You would spend more, and gain the same or less with a 12600K.
> 
> Properly configured 11900K really dominates in games, and with how most games use cores your not going to gain anything substantial going from an 11900K to even a 12900K.
> 
> I can show you some impressive stuff from an 11900K. Which is why I’ve decided not to upgrade, and to just keep it for the long term until something worthy comes a long.


The difference between an 11900k & 12900k is fairly significant but it has nothing to do with cores. It's just a faster CPU. In his situation I think he should just wait as a tweaked 10700k is probably not that far off from a 11900k. A good 10700k might even be on par against your average 11900k.


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## tps3443

napata said:


> The difference between an 11900k & 12900k is fairly significant but it has nothing to do with cores. It's just a faster CPU. In his situation I think he should just wait as a tweaked 10700k is probably not that far off from a 11900k. A good 10700k might even be on par against your average 11900k.



3DMark Profile test is a great representation. And how well a CPU can perform overall. Especially (8) threads.

The fastest 10700K, this is (#1) CPU on the 3DMark Profile test using 8 threads is still 20% slower than an 11900K at the similar frequency that’s only in the sub top (#100).

[email protected],430Mhz -20% slower. #1 spot
[email protected],500Mhz +20% faster. #88 spot

The other threads 1-16 show very similar percentage gains as this from the 11900K beating out the 10700K, by noticeable margins.

Now, the [email protected] in Profile test actually pulls nearly equivalent numbers to the 5.5Ghz 11900K from 1-8 threads. It’s only until more cores outpulls the 11900K in the 16 and max threads test drastically. But from 1-8 threads? Super tight comparison here. Very very Similar performance.

So, from an IPC standpoint the 11900K can pretty much compete with these modern chips in games. 10th Gen falls short here though. Clock for clock it’ll have the IPC disadvantage in games.

Just for fun. Let’s throw in one of the fastest 12600K benches on Profile test. This is a [email protected] That profile test looks very similar to that of a [email protected]

This is why I‘d recommend an 11th Gen if it’s affordable, and someone already has a Z490/Z590 motherboard. They can pick up modern IPC, and that modern high FPS in games.

You name the benchmark, and I can pretty much out pull a 12600K. Now on the other hand 10700K’s can’t do that.

Hey, I get it if someone is building a system they’d probably be better off going with 12th Gen. But, in this case this guy simply said he would be $150 out of pocket to jump to an 11900K. If he’s playing games, or even using cpu intensive applications. It’s totally worth it. Now, I know the 12900K is a beast in “HEAVY LIFTING” and super intensive applications and programs the 12900K is gonna smash an 11900K by good margins when it comes to more threads. I do not doubt that for a moment. All I’m saying is in games and actual real world usage, his $150 provides.


----------



## napata

tps3443 said:


> 3DMark Profile test is a great representation. And how well a CPU can perform overall. Especially (8) threads.
> 
> The fastest 10700K, this is (#1) CPU on the 3DMark Profile test using 8 threads is still 20% slower than an 11900K at the similar frequency that’s only in the sub top (#100).
> 
> [email protected],430Mhz -20% slower. #1 spot
> [email protected],500Mhz +20% faster. #88 spot
> 
> The other threads 1-16 show very similar percentage gains as this from the 11900K beating out the 10700K, by noticeable margins.
> 
> Now, the [email protected] in Profile test actually pulls nearly equivalent numbers to the 5.5Ghz 11900K from 1-8 threads. It’s only until more cores outpulls the 11900K in the 16 and max threads test drastically. But from 1-8 threads? Super tight comparison here. Very very Similar performance.
> 
> So, from an IPC standpoint the 11900K can pretty much compete with these modern chips in games. 10th Gen falls short here though. Clock for clock it’ll have the IPC disadvantage in games.
> 
> Just for fun. Let’s throw in one of the fastest 12600K benches on Profile test. This is a [email protected] That profile test looks very similar to that of a [email protected]
> 
> This is why I‘d recommend an 11th Gen if it’s affordable, and someone already has a Z490/Z590 motherboard. They can pick up modern IPC, and that modern high FPS in games.
> 
> You name the benchmark, and I can pretty much out pull a 12600K. Now on the other hand 10700K’s can’t do that.
> 
> Hey, I get it if someone is building a system they’d probably be better off going with 12th Gen. But, in this case this guy simply said he would be $150 out of pocket to jump to an 11900K. If he’s playing games, or even using cpu intensive applications. It’s totally worth it. Now, I know the 12900K is a beast in “HEAVY LIFTING” and super intensive applications and programs the 12900K is gonna smash an 11900K by good margins when it comes to more threads. I do not doubt that for a moment. All I’m saying is in games and actual real world usage, his $150 provides.
> 
> View attachment 2569629
> 
> View attachment 2569632
> 
> View attachment 2569631
> 
> View attachment 2569630


No wonder you think the 11900k is a match for the 12900k. Seems like RL does pretty well in it but the profile test is terrible as a benchmark for games as it does not scale at all with cache or RAM. You might as well compare CB. Put your RAM at 2400 and you probably won't see much of a difference. The test also scales almost 1:1 with clock speed, unlike games. I checked and a 5800x3D does signficantly worse than your result and even the regular 5800x but you don't think you can actually compete with it in games, right?

Rocket Lake does have much better IPC than Comet Lake, but unfortnately that does not translate to games all that well. It's why a 10900k is still faster in games. Cache size, cache latency and the gear system hamper performance in games and in a lot of workloads they don't matter, which is why the IPC is much better. Gaming is not one of them.

If you actually test some games AL is much faster. The best representation for games are games. An example. Max 12900k is about 20% faster than sugi0lover's result and his setup was more or less as high as you can go.
CapframeX also did an IPC test for games at equal threads, clocks and RAM.










I don't dissagree with your recommendation but I just don't agree with that a 11900k is a match for a 12900k. I even own an 11700k and I'm happy with it. If I thought 20-30% was worth it I would've upgraded.


----------



## tps3443

napata said:


> No wonder you think the 11900k is a match for the 12900k. Seems like RL does pretty well in it but the profile test is terrible as a benchmark for games as it does not scale at all with cache or RAM. You might as well compare CB. Put your RAM at 2400 and you probably won't see much of a difference. The test also scales almost 1:1 with clock speed, unlike games. I checked and a 5800x3D does signficantly worse than your result and even the regular 5800x but you don't think you can actually compete with it in games, right?
> 
> Rocket Lake does have much better IPC than Comet Lake, but unfortnately that does not translate to games all that well. It's why a 10900k is still faster in games. Cache size, cache latency and the gear system hamper performance in games and in a lot of workloads they don't matter, which is why the IPC is much better. Gaming is not one of them.
> 
> If you actually test some games AL is much faster. The best representation for games are games. An example. Max 12900k is about 20% faster than sugi0lover's result and his setup was more or less as high as you can go.
> CapframeX also did an IPC test for games at equal threads, clocks and RAM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't dissagree with your recommendation but I just don't agree with that a 11900k is a match for a 12900k. I even own an 11700k and I'm happy with it. If I thought 20-30% was worth it I would've upgraded.


I’m not arguing the 11900K can match a 12900k, I was just saying that the 11900K is going to be competitive against 12th Gen and less expensive. (They’ll do the same thing similarly)

My current 11900K actually edged out Sugi0lovers 11900K, the Profile test I posted was on ambient water at the time. And it was the fastest ambient water cooled 11900K in the world. I got lucky. It can run as high as 4140Mhz Gear (1) on the IMC with 2x16GB, and the silicon can manage 5.5Ghz with 1.5V. The CPU and IMC are both super strong. It has been very fun.

The IPC test from that same review you posted was excellent though, I read all of it. And with DDR4 3200, and all CPU’s at 4Ghz it looks very solid to me. This is another one of their graphs, with all chips tested stock with DDR4 3200 from the same reviewer.

Now, we know how rocketlake performs on Gear (1) with faster memory. Imagine the chart after opening it up with AIBT enabled, and DDR4 3600 or even DDR4 3733, with a ring speed of 43 at least. It’ll perform a good bit better than it’s stock self in the graph below. It’s pretty large on an 11900K.

The 11900K in the graph below that’s averaging closer to a 12600K than a 10900K is, is running 4.8Ghz all cores, and a 39 ring, with only DDR4 3200 CL16. (It’s stock yes) but also very lousy Lol.

I guess my point is, even with a bad 11900K you can get some solid percentage gains by just enabling Intel AIBT in the bios, and running Gear (1) 3600 CL14. 

Anyways, thanks for sharing that.


----------



## Arni90

Any chance of seeing you run Cinebench at that frequency? I'd love to see an 11900K push 18K on ambient cooling.


----------



## YoungChris

@tps3443 Any proof of 4140 Gear 1 2x16? What temps, volts, settings, stability?


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> Any chance of seeing you run Cinebench at that frequency? I'd love to see an 11900K push 18K on ambient cooling.


Which Cinebench?


----------



## tps3443

YoungChris said:


> @tps3443 Any proof of 4140 Gear 1 2x16? What temps, volts, settings, stability?


I don’t run 4140. But I’ve posted with it just fine, and ran some benches a while back , never really stability tested it either. I was really just so shocked to have 4000 CL14 Gear(1) Truly stable, I never looked back. But, when I did test it I essentially applied 4000Mhz Gear 1, and slowly bclk OCed and ran up to 4140Mhz and even 4150Mhz posted fine too. It quit posting past 4160Mhz, which I really think may just be a DDR4 memory limitation with my 2x16GB sticks. But probably IMC limitation too.


PS: This was about a year ago when I tested the IMC like this. I’ve been running this chip for a little while now.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> Any chance of seeing you run Cinebench at that frequency? I'd love to see an 11900K push 18K on ambient cooling.


I have these. Both runs were on ambient water cooling. Bare die, no die frame, and no Intel latching system on the motherboard.


Are you referring to R23?


----------



## Arni90

tps3443 said:


> Which Cinebench?


The only variant that will hit 18K is R23, so that was what I meant.

I'd kind of expect more than +200 points compared to my 5.3 run I did at launch, but it's definitely impressive.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> The only variant that will hit 18K is R23, so that was what I meant.
> 
> I'd kind of expect more than +200 points compared to my 5.3 run I did at launch, but it's definitely impressive.


As requested.


----------



## tps3443

@Arni90


Let me see what makes R23 tick, and I’ll try to
break 18K. I have not benched anything in about 8-9 months so I need to get back in the groove. I’ve purely used the system daily and forgotten all about it at the same time. My R23 scores are really not all that exciting so far though. But, once upon a time I had some really good R23 scores on a different OS entirely I think I might have broke 18K before or it was like 17,999 not even kidding. I’m using Windows 11, and it just does not fare as well.

I’ll report back later today if I can even break 18K..I would definitely need to be using my old Windows 10 Enterprise OS though, and I’d already be there!

We’ll see how it goes. So far I am less than 1% away from the goal. But, yeah if this chip was on the right OS. Absolutely! It’d blow right past 18K.










I’m still impressed by the 11900K. If you look back at the 9900K, the 11900K is noticeably faster and both CPU’s are 8/16.


----------



## mxthunder

Hi All - reading through lots of pages of this thread. Trying to get my 11700k dialed in at 4.9GHz all core... using medium LLC, on a gigabyte board, wondering what a "safe" vcore to dial in is? I have 1.40V set, getting about 1.28 under load. How much headroom do I have? Temps are high 80s under load.


----------



## Arni90

tps3443 said:


> @Arni90
> 
> 
> Let me see what makes R23 tick, and I’ll try to
> break 18K. I have not benched anything in about 8-9 months so I need to get back in the groove. I’ve purely used the system daily and forgotten all about it at the same time. My R23 scores are really not all that exciting so far though. But, once upon a time I had some really good R23 scores on a different OS entirely I think I might have broke 18K before or it was like 17,999 not even kidding. I’m using Windows 11, and it just does not fare as well.
> 
> I’ll report back later today if I can even break 18K..I would definitely need to be using my old Windows 10 Enterprise OS though, and I’d already be there!
> 
> We’ll see how it goes. So far I am less than 1% away from the goal. But, yeah if this chip was on the right OS. Absolutely! It’d blow right past 18K.
> 
> View attachment 2569868
> 
> 
> I’m still impressed by the 11900K. If you look back at the 9900K, the 11900K is noticeably faster and both CPU’s are 8/16.


Absolutely ridiculous. Is the chip delidded, or is it just a stupidly good bin?


----------



## Arni90

mxthunder said:


> Hi All - reading through lots of pages of this thread. Trying to get my 11700k dialed in at 4.9GHz all core... using medium LLC, on a gigabyte board, wondering what a "safe" vcore to dial in is? I have 1.40V set, getting about 1.28 under load. How much headroom do I have? Temps are high 80s under load.


Up to 90C in Cinebench R23 would be totally fine in my book, as long as you're simply gaming.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> Absolutely ridiculous. Is the chip delidded, or is it just a stupidly good bin?



It’s a stupidly good bin, and I also delidded it, and on bare die. I’m gonna say probably best out of 100. The combination of having a really great IMC, and super amazing cores is lucky.

Chip has been at 5.5+ all cores daily since November 2021.

Also, delidding won’t help much if you’ve got a bad chip. I own (2) 11900K’s. My other one is also delidded /bare die, and it cannot run 5.3Ghz on R23. Delidding helped maintain stability for a true 5.2Ghz all-core OC. While this golden 11900K laughed at 5.4Ghz before the delid Lol.


----------



## Solohuman

mxthunder said:


> Hi All - reading through lots of pages of this thread. Trying to get my 11700k dialed in at 4.9GHz all core... using medium LLC, on a gigabyte board, wondering what a "safe" vcore to dial in is? I have 1.40V set, getting about 1.28 under load. How much headroom do I have? Temps are high 80s under load.


I lock my 11700k at all core 5GHz with adaptive + offset mode for Vcore, LLC 3 cause' I'm on air. I would not recommend a static Vcore value with these cypress cove cores. This is stable in every benchmark I've run & in every game I've played to date.

If you fire up HWiNFO & have it running in the background during your fav stress test apps or gaming, take a note of the maximum Vcore it reaches for all cores, I've seen it shoot over 1.50v. But keep in mind voltage spikes are part of the way Rocket lake likes to run, so its not alarming to notice that high vcore. That value would last maybe a second or two at most...


----------



## tps3443

Solohuman said:


> I lock my 11700k at all core 5GHz with adaptive + offset mode for Vcore, LLC 3 cause' I'm on air. I would not recommend a static Vcore value with these cypress cove cores. This is stable in every benchmark I've run & in every game I've played to date.
> 
> If you fire up HWiNFO & have it running in the background during your fav stress test apps or gaming, take a note of the maximum Vcore it reaches for all cores, I've seen it shoot over 1.50v. But keep in mind voltage spikes are part of the way Rocket lake likes to run, so its not alarming to notice that high vcore. That value would last maybe a second or two at most...


That’s just your silicon quality of the 11700K in general, which is perfectly fine. I can get by on about 1.225 max voltage at 5GHz. And if I ran R15 the chip would use about 150 watts of power. Using adaptive voltage, or auto voltage. The voltage will feed what the silicon desires. Less or more depending on how good or bad it is.

Now, 1.500+ VID value or even 1.700+ VID values reporting in HWinfo for your 11700K are perfectly fine. It’s not going to harm the CPU. So long as your temps are okay.

I have been running a constant 1.518V in the bios for 5.5Ghz all cores for nearly a year now. Daily 24/7OC. No silicon degradation at all, if I go in the bios right now and reset everything and run the cpu stock all core 4.8Ghz with auto voltage it applies just 1.194V full load, and only pulls 138 watts full load in Cinebench R15 multithreaded test. It’s just as good as ever when I first test it last year. Now, I’ve got another 11900K that pull 225 watts stock at 4.8Ghz.

But 1.5v VID under load is totally fine.


----------



## Solohuman

tps3443 said:


> That’s just your silicon quality of the 11700K in general, which is perfectly fine. I can get by on about 1.225 max voltage at 5GHz. And if I ran R15 the chip would use about 150 watts of power. Using adaptive voltage, or auto voltage. The voltage will feed what the silicon desires. Less or more depending on how good or bad it is.
> 
> Now, 1.500+ VID value or even 1.700+ VID values reporting in HWinfo for your 11700K are perfectly fine. It’s not going to harm the CPU. So long as your temps are okay.
> 
> I have been running a constant 1.518V in the bios for 5.5Ghz all cores for nearly a year now. Daily 24/7OC. No silicon degradation at all, if I go in the bios right now and reset everything and run the cpu stock all core 4.8Ghz with auto voltage it applies just 1.194V full load, and only pulls 138 watts full load in Cinebench R15 multithreaded test. It’s just as good as ever when I first test it last year. Now, I’ve got another 11900K that pull 225 watts stock at 4.8Ghz.
> 
> But 1.5v VID under load is totally fine.


The 1.50v values are in the maximum column as reported by HWiNFO, that's not the vid value requested by the cpu. But I understand where your coming from, I have my Vcore manually entered at 1.375v, however the system ignores it when it requires more voltage for a certain part of a benchmark or something like. I've had it lowered to 1.350v however once again the system will ignore it if adaptive voltage + offset are dialled in. Perhaps its the way my MSI board model operates, I don't know, just saying.


----------



## tps3443

Solohuman said:


> The 1.50v values are in the maximum column as reported by HWiNFO, that's not the vid value requested by the cpu. But I understand where your coming from, I have my Vcore manually entered at 1.375v, however the system ignores it when it requires more voltage for a certain part of a benchmark or something like. I've had it lowered to 1.350v however once again the system will ignore it if adaptive voltage + offset are dialled in. Perhaps its the way my MSI board model operates, I don't know, just saying.


Always check actual power usage to confirm. I know what your talking about though.

For example if I applied 1.200V in bios but the VID values were reporting 1.210V per core Per HWInfo.

Or if I applied 1.100V in the bios, the VID values would still show 1.210V per core per HWInfo.

However, take a look at the max power consumption difference between these two settings in HWInfo, while running a CPU benchmark, and you’ll see It’ll be substantially different.

Also, I run a fixed/static voltage in the bios. 


Also, I’m curious what sort of memory are you running? Or what sort of configuration have you tested? 2x16GB 3200CL14 B-Die or 3600CL14 B-Die is right at home on this platform.

Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600C14 (2x16) kit is a good recommendation if I must say. I remember Corsair selling these directly on their website for a great price with a coupon code. That’s what I run. Just a recommendation. 

Good Ole Corsair Dom Platz!


----------



## tps3443

The Intel 11th Gen has come along ways since it’s launch. It really did turn out to be an amazing gaming CPU. I bought an 11900K because it’s all that was in-stock at the time when my 10900K just up and died on me, and now owning (2) 11900K’s I really ended up appreciated the chip the longer I kept it.

Would anyone believe me if I said that my 11900K in R15 scores almost 25% higher than PCGamers review of the 11900K in R15? Isn’t that just crazy sounding?

Anyways, this is CPU-Z benching. Single thread and multi thread is fantastic.









Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[pmsihk] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2022-08-27 05:23:41) - MB: EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr






I’ve literally got countless hours of enjoyment on this CPU.  I think about wasting money on upgrading frequently, then I look at my single threaded performance compared to a 12600K or even a 12700K. And It really makes me reconsider if I really want to waste the money.

Just wanted to share, 11th Gen received so much flak since the introduction, and it’s almost like it wasn’t understood.


----------



## Arni90

Solohuman said:


> The 1.50v values are in the maximum column as reported by HWiNFO, that's not the vid value requested by the cpu. But I understand where your coming from, I have my Vcore manually entered at 1.375v, however the system ignores it when it requires more voltage for a certain part of a benchmark or something like. I've had it lowered to 1.350v however once again the system will ignore it if adaptive voltage + offset are dialled in. Perhaps its the way my MSI board model operates, I don't know, just saying.


Adaptive voltage will only apply if it's above the stock V/F curve. Making it almost useless since 10th gen


----------



## zebra_hun

tps3443 said:


> The Intel 11th Gen has come along ways since it’s launch. It really did turn out to be an amazing gaming CPU. I bought an 11900K because it’s all that was in-stock at the time when my 10900K just up and died on me, and now owning (2) 11900K’s I really ended up appreciated the chip the longer I kept it.
> 
> Would anyone believe me if I said that my 11900K in R15 scores almost 25% higher than PCGamers review of the 11900K in R15? Isn’t that just crazy sounding?
> 
> Anyways, this is CPU-Z benching. Single thread and multi thread is fantastic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 11900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [pmsihk] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2022-08-27 05:23:41) - MB: EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve literally got countless hours of enjoyment on this CPU.  I think about wasting money on upgrading frequently, then I look at my single threaded performance compared to a 12600K or even a 12700K. And It really makes me reconsider if I really want to waste the money.
> 
> Just wanted to share, 11th Gen received so much flak since the introduction, and it’s almost like it wasn’t understood.


My cml cpu is good, too 
Ok, this isn't rkl, but i don't want to change.
Rkl is not bettet than cml, just same.
Cpuz


----------



## tps3443

zebra_hun said:


> My cml cpu is good, too
> Ok, this isn't rkl, but i don't want to change.
> Rkl is not bettet than cml, just same.
> Cpuz


Yes but even at 5.526 your right at 14% down on single thread if I run my CPU at 5.526Ghz. That’s not huge, but it’s larger than the difference between my cpu and a “*stock” “UnTuned*” 12900K’s single thread on CPU-Z which is only 11%. So Whatever that 14% reflects to in real world, who knows.

please go run R23 (Multi) and (Single), and please post your results here. I’d love to see a good 10900K compared to a good 11900K.

Thank you so much.

PS: I’ve owned (2) 10900K’s, and a SP85 10850K previously. Tons of fun!! I actually am considering buying a 10900K on Amazon at the moment for another PC setup in the house.


----------



## zebra_hun

I never want to compete with RKL and ADL processors. The advantage of CML CPUs is the uncore frequency. Memory management is extremely good. 
CML loses in real performance, but still holds its own in "game performance". 
It easily reaches 5GHz uncore, which improves the speed a lot.
Cinebench R23 is a real performance. 18600 points what i can do.
zebra_hun`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 18638 cb with a Core i9 10850K








No race


----------



## tps3443

zebra_hun said:


> I never want to compete with RKL and ADL processors. The advantage of CML CPUs is the uncore frequency. Memory management is extremely good.
> CML loses in real performance, but still holds its own in "game performance".
> It easily reaches 5GHz uncore, which improves the speed a lot.
> Cinebench R23 is a real performance. 18600 points what i can do.
> zebra_hun`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 18638 cb with a Core i9 10850K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No race


Can you run R23 with “Minimum test duration enabled” ?

Real-World-usage


----------



## Solohuman

tps3443 said:


> Always check actual power usage to confirm. I know what your talking about though.
> 
> For example if I applied 1.200V in bios but the VID values were reporting 1.210V per core Per HWInfo.
> 
> Or if I applied 1.100V in the bios, the VID values would still show 1.210V per core per HWInfo.
> 
> However, take a look at the max power consumption difference between these two settings in HWInfo, while running a CPU benchmark, and you’ll see It’ll be substantially different.
> 
> Also, I run a fixed/static voltage in the bios.
> 
> 
> Also, I’m curious what sort of memory are you running? Or what sort of configuration have you tested? 2x16GB 3200CL14 B-Die or 3600CL14 B-Die is right at home on this platform.
> 
> Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600C14 (2x16) kit is a good recommendation if I must say. I remember Corsair selling these directly on their website for a great price with a coupon code. That’s what I run. Just a recommendation.
> 
> Good Ole Corsair Dom Platz!


99% of the time I'm gaming on this rig. I have also run manual set Vcore value. The max power consumption your talking about is measured in watts, I'm taking that to mean? In this case it barely peaks above 125w atm, but that's cause I'm into a 15yr old game like _Oblivion_ now. Before when I played _Borderlands 3_ & even in _Dying Light_ for a while it would peak over 150w in all sessions playing them. This is with & without HT enabled @ 1440p. So obviously newer game engines demand more hardware power but I'm getting off topic.

With regards to my RAM they are NeoForza kit of 2x16GB Hynix DJR rated for 4600MHz CL19 @ 1.50v. The only disappointment I have with my 11700k is its relatively weak gear 1 IMC. No matter what voltages I through at it, its never able to boot pass 3466MHz, so I tighten the RAM values there & leave it at that. I have gone with 4800MHz CL19 before & found performance, at least in gaming identical to that gear 1 performance however as I'm sure you know, more volts are needed at that gear 2 level to keep it stable. But the read, write, copy speeds surpass Alderlake with DDR5 at 4800MHz according to Aida64 benchmark runs. The latency is also in the low 50s.



Arni90 said:


> Adaptive voltage will only apply if it's above the stock V/F curve. Making it almost useless since 10th gen


I only moved to Intel after many yrs with AMD so don't know much about anything less than 11th gen.


----------



## tps3443

This is a comparison between thermal paste and liquid metal!

I have been running the same liquid metal application since December of 2021. With some slight temp degradation, nothing too crazy. I decided to reapply new thermal material.

So, I figure I’d give thermal paste a try again. I cleaned the block, and CPU silicon thoroughly. Then I applied Kingpin KPX thermal paste on to the CPU die, then tightened down the Optimus V2 nickel waterblock.
(CPU package temp is 72C with thermal
paste)

*Thermal Paste (62c-72c core temps)*

After seeing the mediocre temps, I knew liquid metal was still the best way to go!! So, I removed the block again, and cleaned everything up with alcohol and rubbed fresh LM in to my Optimus V2 cold plate, and LM on to the 11900K die as well. I remounted the Optimus Signature V2 block and ran the exact same test. (CPU package temp is 62C with Liquid metal)

*Liquid Metal (54c-61c core temps)*


Both bios settings are identical, ambient temp is identical, this was all done inside of a 30 minute window.

You can actually see the power consumption and voltage is lower on the Liquid metal setup, even though bios settings are the same.


*THERMAL PASTE 5.5GHZ (R20)*











*LIQUID METAL (5.5GHZ R20)*









Liquid metal is far superior in every way! This really makes me want to take apart my 3090 Kingpin, and apply liquid metal on that as well. I have always ran LM on a cpu though.


----------



## tps3443

Hey, @Solohuman I’m sure we can get your ram situated man. You definitely need Gear (1) for gaming. I have tried Gear (2) and it was difficult to see any advantage to it.

It sounds like a solid enough kit that you have though.

First things first, in your bios you have VSA voltage, and VCCIO voltage, and VCCIO AUX voltage.

VCCIO doesn’t need to be touched unless your messing with the bclk. And if your are messing with the BCLK, then 1.250V is perfectly fine here.

However, your VSA, and VCCIO AUX need to be changed immediately to 1.350V each. Set each one to 1.350V and then you can try for 3600 or 3733 or even maybe 3866 memory speeds in Gear (1).

I have ran 1.500V to both for the better part of a year, 4,000Mhz Gear (1) CL14 with 2x16GB. No issues what so ever.

I’d definitely start out with 1.350V minimum for both though. A lot of motherboard do not automatically apply the correct required voltage to the VSA/VCCIO, and Gear (2) even for like 4,800Mhz+ needs hardly any VSA or VCCIO AUX voltages to run super fast memory on Gear (2). This explains why Gear (2) overclocks are working, and you cannot get Gear (1) to post at all.


PS: Some motherboards call VCCIO AUX different things in the bios, it could be labeled as “VCCIO MEM” or “VCCIO 2”

One more thing, you always want to bump the voltage for VSA, and VCCIO AUX first before doing anything, then you reboot back in the bios and try for higher Gear (1) speeds on your memory speeds knowing the higher voltage are reading to sustain.

Any of these Rocketlake CPU’s will run 3600Mhz Gear (1) with some pretty darn tight timings. I’ve tested several, and your 3466 sounds very familiar. I ran a Z490 motherboard once with a 11900K a while back, and it had VCCIO AUX voltage control physically missing from the bios. So, this forced me to get a Z590 board just to be able to control VCCIO AUX, and go higher on Gear (1). You’ve also got a lot of motherboards that just refuse to automatically increase the VCCIO AUX when you manually set higher Gear (1) speeds, so you get a “No post” on reboot. 

One more thing, I always recommend going as high as even 1.475 safely on each of these items. The higher the voltage, and the further you can push Gear (1) frequencies on memory until finding your IMC’s limitations. But your not getting anywhere in gear (1) without increasing the VSA, or VCCIO AUX voltage.


----------



## zebra_hun

tps3443 said:


> Can you run R23 with “Minimum test duration enabled” ?
> 
> Real-World-usage


5400MHz no, sorry. I'm an UV oc'er. My dialy setup is 4.8GHz on 1.07V load voltage.
Long stress i've made, P95 non avx. 5.4GHz was one time for this bench.
I use on IHS a normal thermal paste, but 16W/mK.
CPU is relided, chanced original indium to LM, and IHS back. Looks like original CPU.
Here is my non avx stress, but water temp was ~10°C. Load voltage is 1.14V, LLC5.
51x/47x:








Direct link
I don't wanna kill the cpu, for normal gaming right ac 4.8 or max 5GHz. Bottleneck is gpu, not cpu (rtx3080), 720 or1080p don't care.
A little mem oc help a lot.
My 24/7 ram is 4133MHz CL 17 17 17, and right me 1.39V Vdimm, VCCIO /SA: 1.12V.
Ram stress
64 64 63GB/s @ 37ns is super for me. Everythings are extreme low Voltage.
UV oc


----------



## Imprezzion

I couldn't help myself.. local shop had a sale on 11th gen and you get free call of duty mw2 voucher which I wanna buy anyway so.. got a 11900KF for €359. I won't sell my 10900K anyway but still, new toy.

I bought it as well because for example spider man benchmarks really show the 10900K performing horrible compared to 11900K for example so..

Would delidding the 11900kf be worth it in general? I have some experience delidding both old school vice method and with a RockItCool 10th gen Delid tool but I thought the 11th gen was way harder to do due to smd's close to the edge of the IHS right?


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I couldn't help myself.. local shop had a sale on 11th gen and you get free call of duty mw2 voucher which I wanna buy anyway so.. got a 11900KF for €359. I won't sell my 10900K anyway but still, new toy.
> 
> I bought it as well because for example spider man benchmarks really show the 10900K performing horrible compared to 11900K for example so..
> 
> Would delidding the 11900kf be worth it in general? I have some experience delidding both old school vice method and with a RockItCool 10th gen Delid tool but I thought the 11th gen was way harder to do due to smd's close to the edge of the IHS right?


I have successfully popped the IHS on both of My 11900K’s. But you’ve gotta be very careful. Yes it’s worth it though, less voltage demand needed, less power, MUCH COOLER TEMPS.

The silicon die is super thin on 11th Gen, but the substrate is really thick as hell. Far thicker than 10th Gen, so no flexing in the CPU. So bare die works very well on 11th gen because it does not bow in to the socket and flex the substrate.

My first delid on a 11900K, I plowed through all (16) SMD’s. (the cpu still worked with no loss of function) it’s perfect, I have reports of other people who also did the same and theirs still worked as well. I was still upset though either way, fortunately that was my dud OCer 11900K. I’ve been running that CPU in a back up rig at 5.1Ghz all core/ 5.3Ghz (2) core boost for about a year.

My 2nd 11900K I delidded this very soon after the first, and I was more careful this time. I payed extra attention, you’ve gotta go back and forward in the delid tool to weaken the solder TIM, but you can only go a few MM each way. After it’s weak enough it lifts off.

I also baked both 11900K’s before hand at 325F to weaken the solder before going to the delid tool. I know someone who did not bake theirs, and they ripped the dip right in half like a cracked piece of glass.

I know a few people who tried, and failed. It’s tedious. But if your careful and maintain attention you can do it. Just like 10th Gen, even the same delid tool. You’ve just gotta pay attention.

It’s really a terrifying experience. But I did it. And it’s worth it.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I couldn't help myself.. local shop had a sale on 11th gen and you get free call of duty mw2 voucher which I wanna buy anyway so.. got a 11900KF for €359. I won't sell my 10900K anyway but still, new toy.
> 
> I bought it as well because for example spider man benchmarks really show the 10900K performing horrible compared to 11900K for example so..
> 
> Would delidding the 11900kf be worth it in general? I have some experience delidding both old school vice method and with a RockItCool 10th gen Delid tool but I thought the 11th gen was way harder to do due to smd's close to the edge of the IHS right?


Hello, can you chime in on what your SP rating is for your new 11900K? And how good the chip is? I’m curious how they are after all this time since launch.

I’m so close to buying another one to build a small Mini ITX system with. Anyways, keep us posted. Thanks!


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Hello, can you chime in on what your SP rating is for your new 11900K? And how good the chip is? I’m curious how they are after all this time since launch.
> 
> I’m so close to buying another one to build a small Mini ITX system with. Anyways, keep us posted. Thanks!


Ok I'm really f-ing salty now. This thing is *SP50*. Since when does that even EXIST. SP50... Give me a break.... It's using 1.668v for 5.3 ffs on auto... Let me set static all core 5.3 and see how low it can go.

EDIT: simple answer, it doesn't. It barely boots to Windows at 1.403v and won't even think about running Cinebench R23 under like 1.46v.. Sigh.. If the IMC and cache is also weak it's going straight back as a return and I'll order another one or something..

EDIT2: Cache is trash as well. Won't even boot 4.7. And so is the IMC. Cannot boot 3866 gear 1 to BIOS.

Yeah I'm filing for a return tomorrow.

EDIT 3: I managed to get it to do 5.2 all core 5.3 on the 2 best with per specific core OC, 45 cache, 3733 gear 1. At least it booted to windows. Voltages are very high, 1.45 SA 1.3 IO2, 1.510 vCore. But it seems to at least somewhat work.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Ok I'm really f-ing salty now. This thing is *SP50*. Since when does that even EXIST. SP50... Give me a break.... It's using 1.668v for 5.3 ffs on auto... Let me set static all core 5.3 and see how low it can go.
> 
> EDIT: simple answer, it doesn't. It barely boots to Windows at 1.403v and won't even think about running Cinebench R23 under like 1.46v.. Sigh.. If the IMC and cache is also weak it's going straight back as a return and I'll order another one or something..
> 
> EDIT2: Cache is trash as well. Won't even boot 4.7. And so is the IMC. Cannot boot 3866 gear 1 to BIOS.
> 
> Yeah I'm filing for a return tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT 3: I managed to get it to do 5.2 all core 5.3 on the 2 best with per specific core OC, 45 cache, 3733 gear 1. At least it booted to windows. Voltages are very high, 1.45 SA 1.3 IO2, 1.510 vCore. But it seems to at least somewhat work.


Sounds about like my first 11900K. Where did you buy it from? And what’s the batch, I’m curious how old/new it is. The batch will tell us what week and year.

Also, I would aim for 45-46 cache (That’s considered pretty good) (47 cache is really stellar) only 1 in 4 11900K’s can do 4000 Gear 1 as far as I know.

Make sure to check RTL’s manually too. For example, you may boot like 3733 Gear (1) and it’s 56/56/57/57 RTL’s. And then you go back in bios and change to 3866 Gear (1) the reboot, and the motherboard is sticking the same RTL’s preventing a post to the bios on reboot.

I would manually enter RTL’s of 63/63/63/63 and try for high gear (1) speeds. Then you can tighten from there.


----------



## Arni90

Imprezzion said:


> Ok I'm really f-ing salty now. This thing is *SP50*. Since when does that even EXIST. SP50... Give me a break.... It's using 1.668v for 5.3 ffs on auto... Let me set static all core 5.3 and see how low it can go.
> 
> EDIT: simple answer, it doesn't. It barely boots to Windows at 1.403v and won't even think about running Cinebench R23 under like 1.46v.. Sigh.. If the IMC and cache is also weak it's going straight back as a return and I'll order another one or something..


That's hardly a weak 11900K if it does Cinebench R23 at 5.3 GHz with only 1.46V VCore

SP50 is normal for all new 11900K chips


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> That's hardly a weak 11900K if it does Cinebench R23 at 5.3 GHz with only 1.46V VCore
> 
> SP50 is normal for all new 11900K chips


SP50? Yikes.
That makes my bad 11900K QS look good. And I thought that was bad.
I had no idea the SP went that low. Thought that was 11700K level.

The highest my chip could run Stockfish at was 5.1 ghz. 5.2 ghz required way too much voltage. 5.1 was good for a daily setting.
5.3 ghz would hard lock in cinebench R23 even at 1.60v bios set.
Retired it pretty fast but still working fine. No idea how much, if any, degradation happened as i never did a low mhz low vcore control test to test for absolute vmin.
I'll be sure to learn from my mistakes and do that immediately on Raptor Lake (at lower than stock frequency).


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> SP50? Yikes.
> That makes my bad 11900K QS look good. And I thought that was bad.
> I had no idea the SP went that low. Thought that was 11700K level.
> 
> The highest my chip could run Stockfish at was 5.1 ghz. 5.2 ghz required way too much voltage. 5.1 was good for a daily setting.
> 5.3 ghz would hard lock in cinebench R23 even at 1.60v bios set.
> Retired it pretty fast but still working fine. No idea how much, if any, degradation happened as i never did a low mhz low vcore control test to test for absolute vmin.
> I'll be sure to learn from my mistakes and do that immediately on Raptor Lake (at lower than stock frequency).


It seems like all 11900K chips made after a certain date are SP50. The replacement 11900K I got recently was SP50, the first I had was SP84. New batch was V136, meaning it was made in week 36 of 2021, while old SP84 was X102

SP50 Ring could be walked up to 4980 MHz and complete SuperPI 1M and PYPrime 2B. Original SP84 could only do 4880 MHz on a good day in same conditions.

SP50 IMC could boot 2000 MHz, and be walked up slightly north of 2050 MHz. Original SP84 could only do 1985 MHz on a good day.


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> It seems like all 11900K chips made after a certain date are SP50. The replacement 11900K I got recently was SP50, the first I had was SP84. New batch was V136, meaning it was made in week 36 of 2021, while old SP84 was X102
> 
> SP50 Ring could be walked up to 4980 MHz and complete SuperPI 1M and PYPrime 2B. Original SP84 could only do 4880 MHz on a good day in same conditions.
> 
> SP50 IMC could boot 2000 MHz, and be walked up slightly north of 2050 MHz. Original SP84 could only do 1985 MHz on a good day.


Eh.
I don't think I was able to go above 4500 mhz ring on my QS.
It's been too long. Maybe I'll hook it up again and test it open bench when I'm bored.


----------



## Imprezzion

Update: Batch# is V140I621. this chip is weird. The V/F curve makes no sense. 1.388 for 5.2 and then 1.668 for 5.3. it will actually run 5.2 CB R23 for half an hour at 1.352v die sense fine but 5.3 crashed after 2 runs at 1.46. It passed with 1.496 but it's too hot. It'll do 5.2 all core 5.3 on the 2 best ones pretty well. I can forget about Prime95 AVX Small tho. The 10900K could run that just fine but this thing goes straight to 404w load and 95-98c and it does NOT like that. Workers start to fail quite quickly lol.

It can't do anything over 43/44 cache. 45 freezes after loading desktop.

I did tweak the RTL's and such but 3733 is the best it'll do in gear 1 so far. It passed 1 hour of TM5 1usmus at 3733 14-15-15-28-280-2N with reasonably tight subtimings and manual RTL at 1.540v DRAM, 1.40v SA, 1.30v IO2. Cores at per specific core x52 on 6 of them, x53 on the best 2, cache 43, down bin and all energy savings enabled like EIST, Turbo, C-States, Auto vCore, SVID Trained, Auto AC/DC, V/F Curve -0.100 @ 5.2 -0.150 @ 5.3. This is letting it run around 1.39-1.40v in light / medium loads and 1.352-1.363v in max power virus loads like CB R23 / y-cruncher / Prime95. 










But, if all new production ones are this "bad" there's no reason for me to send it back as i'll just get another new production one. Oh well, you win some you lose some in the silicon lottery. The 4th 10900K was an absolute win, my 7700K was a 5.05Ghz monster, my 2500K was a " record holder" on ambient (5.3 fully 24/7 stable 5.9 for benches) for a while even back in the day, but all my other chips were bad lol.


----------



## tps3443

I don’t believe all new production ones are bad or SP50.. And that’s not a new new production 11900K. It was made the 40th week of 2021. My “super silicon” 5.5Ghz 11900K was made on week 38 of 2021. My average overclocking 11900K was made the 22nd week of 2021.


5.2Ghz 11900K Batch= X122 aka “Imbred”
5.5Ghz 11900K Batch= X138 aka “Super Silicon”

If you delid the chip you’ll knock off HUGEEEE temps, but you only gain 1 Bin in overclocking head room, and the low temps still cannot guarantee 5.3Ghz TRUE stability, from the way that chip sounds. My Imbred 11900K still couldn’t truly stabilize 5.3Ghz no matter even if it ran 65C under a full load.

Silicon variation is with all of them. You can exchange, and the next one will be totally different. I say exchange, chances are you’ll get a better one. What you have now is pretty much what all 11900K’s can do. I would not pay attention to SP rating at all. I don’t even know my SP ratings of mine. I just know 1 is average, and the other is some kind of miracle chip. Plenty of good ones out there to be had. Keep trying!


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> I don’t believe all new production ones are bad or SP50.. And that’s not a new new production 11900K. It was made the 40th week of 2021. My “super silicon” 5.5Ghz 11900K was made on week 38 of 2021. My average overclocking 11900K was made the 22nd week of 2021.
> 
> 
> 5.2Ghz 11900K Batch= X122 aka “Imbred”
> 5.5Ghz 11900K Batch= X138 aka “Super Silicon”
> 
> If you delid the chip you’ll knock off HUGEEEE temps, but you only gain 1 Bin in overclocking head room, and the low temps still cannot guarantee 5.3Ghz TRUE stability, from the way that chip sounds. My Imbred 11900K still couldn’t truly stabilize 5.3Ghz no matter even if it ran 65C under a full load.
> 
> Silicon variation is with all of them. You can exchange, and the next one will be totally different. I say exchange, chances are you’ll get a better one. What you have now is pretty much what all 11900K’s can do. I would not pay attention to SP rating at all. I don’t even know my SP ratings of mine. I just know 1 is average, and the other is some kind of miracle chip. Plenty of good ones out there to be had. Keep trying!


Yeah but tbh I feel sorry for the shop if I just return this because it doesn't overclock well. It doesn't sit well with me lol. It works perfectly fine otherwise and even with the lid on temps are totally fine for 5.2 all core even if TRUE stability would need like 1.40v. It does well on gear 2 btw. 4533C17 was a breeze. Didn't even have to raise IO2 or SA. Latency is horrible ofcourse at like 47.x ns but worth just to test for the fun of it. 

Testing continues tomorrow. I think I will just fire up some CPU intensive games like Division 2 tomorrow and see how she holds up on 5.2.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Yeah but tbh I feel sorry for the shop if I just return this because it doesn't overclock well. It doesn't sit well with me lol. It works perfectly fine otherwise and even with the lid on temps are totally fine for 5.2 all core even if TRUE stability would need like 1.40v. It does well on gear 2 btw. 4533C17 was a breeze. Didn't even have to raise IO2 or SA. Latency is horrible ofcourse at like 47.x ns but worth just to test for the fun of it.
> 
> Testing continues tomorrow. I think I will just fire up some CPU intensive games like Division 2 tomorrow and see how she holds up on 5.2.


Also, my weaker 11900K couldn’t become stable in R23, and other super heavy benches. But you can game at 5.3Ghz all cores. And 5.2 is still strong! And so is Gear (1) 3733. 

Set 3733 Gear (1), 1.475V IO/SA voltages. Then slowly bump BCLK to get a higher Gear 1. Rocket lake is built for bclk overclocking very well. Very stable.


----------



## tps3443

@Imprezzion 

To get a good gear (1) memory speed, some Rocketlake chips need bclk overclocking, I don’t know why some prefer it this way, but my other 11900K prefers it over anything. My other 11900K was also particular about just up and posting more than 3733 in Gear (1). So, I ran a 3733Mhz with a 104 bclk. Also, this bclk is separate so it won’t effect your pci express frequency or anything like that.

Also, you may have to bump VCCIO voltage some. Not VCCIO AUX or VCCIO MEM. But “VCCIO” Usually only 1.150V or 1.200V is all that’s needed when jumping up the bclk.

I could get my other 11900K stable to 3,882Mhz Gear (1).


----------



## tps3443

This is a 5.2Ghz (All-core) on my 11900K. 0-AVX offsets, 203 watts max. R23= Full length test.

[email protected] in bios.
4000CL14 Gear (1)
Cache= Auto

This is kind of like a fun ULTRA low power OC, but it still performs like a beast of course.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> @Imprezzion
> 
> To get a good gear (1) memory speed, some Rocketlake chips need bclk overclocking, I don’t know why some prefer it this way, but my other 11900K prefers it over anything. My other 11900K was also particular about just up and posting more than 3733 in Gear (1). So, I ran a 3733Mhz with a 104 bclk. Also, this bclk is separate so it won’t effect your pci express frequency or anything like that.
> 
> Also, you may have to bump VCCIO voltage some. Not VCCIO AUX or VCCIO MEM. But “VCCIO” Usually only 1.150V or 1.200V is all that’s needed when jumping up the bclk.
> 
> I could get my other 11900K stable to 3,882Mhz Gear (1).


I'll play around with it tonight or tomorrow when my Dominators show up as well. 3733C14 Gear 1 has proven to be perfectly stable, it passed the full ~5.5 hours it took to do 25 runs of 1usmus TM5 without any errors so.

I did however get a PCI-E bus WHEA when running a bit of Division 2. It didn't crash or anything but it was there in HWINFO64. I forgot what those are again... I am running the 3080 in slot 1 on gen4 x16 and a 970 EVO in M.2_1 on x4 3.0. All onboard stuff I don't use is disabled like the 2nd NIC, Thunderbolt, onboard audio. ReBAR is enabled.


----------



## tps3443

I just ordered a new retail 11900K, It was only $279.99 bucks. You just cannot beat that kinda performance right there.

Anyways, this will be a backup CPU primarily and I’m curious what silicon quality is out there right now.

I don’t exactly plan on upgrading for a little while anyways.

I‘ll have (3) 11900K’s now. 

It’ll be here tomorrow. I’m getting excited already fella’s. Nothing like testing some fresh silicon in the morning.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> I just ordered a new retail 11900K, It was only $279.99 bucks. You just cannot beat that kinda performance right there.
> 
> Anyways, this will be a backup CPU primarily and I’m curious what silicon quality is out there right now.
> 
> I don’t exactly plan on upgrading for a little while anyways.
> 
> I‘ll have (3) 11900K’s now.
> 
> It’ll be here tomorrow. I’m getting excited already fella’s. Nothing like testing some fresh silicon in the morning.
> 
> View attachment 2570521


Trade me one  . That price is quite..low. I mean, the €359 they cost here is already an all time low for my country (it is incl [email protected]% tax tho) but under 300? Nah. Impossible, even used.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Trade me one  . That price is quite..low. I mean, the €359 they cost here is already an all time low for my country (it is incl [email protected]% tax tho) but under 300? Nah. Impossible, even used.


I know! $279.99 USD for a 11900K that is brand new retail boxed is really amazing! I kept going back and checking, and I convinced my self to get another one.

If it’s absolutely terrible, I might just exchange it too.

I kinda want to build a mini ITX system with it.


----------



## tps3443

This is an example of what happens when you go from x40 Cache OC, to X45 Cache OC. Power consumption is up from 203 watts to 229 watts, and the average VID has gone from 1.274V to 1.356V. Fortunately it is not massive for this chip but still something to keep in mind if you are overclocking an 11900K.

Below is a 11900K run at 5.2Ghz all cores, with x45 cache, [email protected] Gear (1) CL14 1T command rate. memory is Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600CL14 Samsung-B die


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> This is an example of what happens when you go from x40 Cache OC, to X45 Cache OC. Power consumption is up from 203 watts to 229 watts, and the average VID has gone from 1.274V to 1.356V. Fortunately it is not massive for this chip but still something to keep in mind if you are overclocking an 11900K.
> 
> Below is a 11900K run at 5.2Ghz all cores, with x45 cache, [email protected] Gear (1) CL14 1T command rate. memory is Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600CL14 Samsung-B die
> View attachment 2570559


TM5 1usmus with much tighter tertiaries, CPU 5.3x2 5.2x8, cache 4.3.










And a R23 run. We basically get exact identical scores lol. Only mine takes way more voltage (1.350-1.359v die sense after droop under CB R23 load) and runs at like 80c cause it isn't delidded. lol. Look at the massive package power difference. Yours is 229w mine is 294w. Same clocks. I have seen this thing pull 404w in Prime95 AVX...


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> TM5 1usmus with much tighter tertiaries, CPU 5.3x2 5.2x8, cache 4.3.
> 
> View attachment 2570562
> 
> 
> And a R23 run. We basically get exact identical scores lol. Only mine takes way more voltage (1.350-1.359v die sense after droop under CB R23 load) and runs at like 80c cause it isn't delidded. lol. Look at the massive package power difference. Yours is 229w mine is 294w. Same clocks. I have seen this thing pull 404w in Prime95 AVX...
> 
> View attachment 2570563



This is more of a low power run. 203 watts.

This below is only x40 cache OC. Running x45 or X46 requires more voltage, which is why it eats up that 230 watts.

As for timings I’ll happily try yours out lol. I got my current ones on here from someone who spent hours and hours, and then I my self spent the same time messing with them. 😂 memory overclocking is time consuming!


Can you set everything to default in bios, then run R15 and respond with your max VID’s and max power usage? Make sure it only runs 4.8Ghz all cores with auto voltage. Then we’ll have an idea how good it is. it may even be better than my other 11900K.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> This is more of a low power run. 203 watts.
> 
> This below is only x40 cache OC. Running x45 or X46 requires more voltage, which is why it eats up that 230 watts.
> 
> As for timings I’ll happily try yours out lol. I got my current ones on here from someone who spent hours and hours, and then I my self spent the same time messing with them. 😂 memory overclocking is time consuming!
> 
> 
> Can you set everything to default in bios, then run R15 and respond with your max VID’s and max power usage? Make sure it only runs 4.8Ghz all cores with auto voltage. Then we’ll have an idea how good it is. it may even be better than my other 11900K.
> 
> View attachment 2570570


1.199v VID's for 4.8 in R15 with CPU and cache all Auto with MCE and OCTVB disabled.

I am testing OCTVB now with a base of 5.2 for the 2 best cores and 5.1 for the rest, then a +1 boost bin on OCTVB, voltage optimization enabled, VMAX stress enabled, V/F Curve #6 x51 -0.050, #7 x52 -0.100, #8 x53 -0.150. This runs 5.1 all core in R23 / Prime95 with and without AVX around 1.270-1.279v. It seems stable so far. It also boosts the 2 best cores to 5.3 @ 1.430v nicely and under the temp limits set for OCTVB it boosts all cores to 5.2 around 1.350-1.359v. Honestly this chip isn't even that bad as long as I don't expect my 6 worse cores to do 5.3. 5.2 works quite well and 5.1 is by far the most efficient clock and doesn't require a lot of voltage at all.

I am receiving my Dominator Platinum's tomorrow (3466C16) B-Die which I will obviously bin against these 3600C16 Trident-Z. They are technically a worse bin but also like CPU's it's a lottery. I have had very low bin B-Die kits clock to the moon and very highly binned ones be terrible. We'll see.


----------



## tps3443

@Imprezzion


That 3733 Gear (1) setup with 5.2Ghz all core is really stout in gaming. Especially with how you’ve setup your timings. I mean, under real world circumstances that’s a super fast setup.


Imprezzion said:


> 1.199v VID's for 4.8 in R15 with CPU and cache all Auto with MCE and OCTVB disabled.
> 
> I am testing OCTVB now with a base of 5.2 for the 2 best cores and 5.1 for the rest, then a +1 boost bin on OCTVB, voltage optimization enabled, VMAX stress enabled, V/F Curve #6 x51 -0.050, #7 x52 -0.100, #8 x53 -0.150. This runs 5.1 all core in R23 / Prime95 with and without AVX around 1.270-1.279v. It seems stable so far. It also boosts the 2 best cores to 5.3 @ 1.430v nicely and under the temp limits set for OCTVB it boosts all cores to 5.2 around 1.350-1.359v. Honestly this chip isn't even that bad as long as I don't expect my 6 worse cores to do 5.3. 5.2 works quite well and 5.1 is by far the most efficient clock and doesn't require a lot of voltage at all.
> 
> I am receiving my Dominator Platinum's tomorrow (3466C16) B-Die which I will obviously bin against these 3600C16 Trident-Z. They are technically a worse bin but also like CPU's it's a lottery. I have had very low bin B-Die kits clock to the moon and very highly binned ones be terrible. We'll see.



1.199 VID is low voltage for 4.8Ghz. So this may be promising CPU after a delid.

My average 11900K would consume 1.275VID at 4.8Ghz.

I’m thinking deliding this CPU would open the overclocking gates up for you. That happens a lot with soldered chips.

Silicon can be so different. Some chips resist heat and maintain stability No matter if it is 92C. Some chips are sensitive to heat and crash at 80C. And a lot of it comes down to silicon quality, and soldering TIM quality as well. Deliding really helps so much In this aspect though.

Something to consider is all.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> @Imprezzion
> 
> 
> That 3733 Gear (1) setup with 5.2Ghz all core is really stout in gaming. Especially with how you’ve setup your timings. I mean, under real world circumstances that’s a super fast setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 1.199 VID is low voltage for 4.8Ghz. So this may be promising CPU after a delid.
> 
> My average 11900K would consume 1.275VID at 4.8Ghz.
> 
> I’m thinking deliding this CPU would open the overclocking gates up for you. That happens a lot with soldered chips.
> 
> Silicon can be so different. Some chips resist heat and maintain stability No matter if it is 92C. Some chips are sensitive to heat and crash at 80C. And a lot of it comes down to silicon quality, and soldering TIM quality as well. Deliding really helps so much In this aspect though.
> 
> Something to consider is all.


Yes sir. But, honestly, I am leaving this one lidded for a change. Now that I know 13th gen will support DDR4, depending on CPU prices, I wanna eventually upgrade this whole setup to a MSI Edge Z690 DDR4 with a 13900K if performance is as good as they claim. By then I will sell this set with the worse of the 2 B-Die kits to one of my mates. There's always someone looking for an upgrade in my group.

And yes, it performs amazing in gaming paired with my 3080 10gb @ undervolt 1950 0.912v, +1000 VRAM (10500 effective) with this RAM setup.

I tried bclk btw. It booted gear 1 up to about 3770 then code 55'd after that. Not worth it.

Cache 44 works but needs like, 1.375v to be stable. Lower voltage runs but causes occasional whea cache l0 errors. 43 is rock solid at 1.252v so keeping it there. Took a screenshot mid run in a stability test after letting it heat up for 9-10 minutes. This is where she likes to be. Score is around 16450. It doesn't hold 5.2 all the time in R23 as OCTVB temp is set to 65c so it bounces around 5100 most of the time. Mind the fan speeds btw. I got my pump always 100% but the fans barely spin up from their 600rpm idle. I can get the temps lower but don't see the need for more noise really. GPU also barely hits 46c full load so..


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Yes sir. But, honestly, I am leaving this one lidded for a change. Now that I know 13th gen will support DDR4, depending on CPU prices, I wanna eventually upgrade this whole setup to a MSI Edge Z690 DDR4 with a 13900K if performance is as good as they claim. By then I will sell this set with the worse of the 2 B-Die kits to one of my mates. There's always someone looking for an upgrade in my group.
> 
> And yes, it performs amazing in gaming paired with my 3080 10gb @ undervolt 1950 0.912v, +1000 VRAM (10500 effective) with this RAM setup.
> 
> I tried bclk btw. It booted gear 1 up to about 3770 then code 55'd after that. Not worth it.
> 
> Cache 44 works but needs like, 1.375v to be stable. Lower voltage runs but causes occasional whea cache l0 errors. 43 is rock solid at 1.252v so keeping it there. Took a screenshot mid run in a stability test after letting it heat up for 9-10 minutes. This is where she likes to be. Score is around 16450. It doesn't hold 5.2 all the time in R23 as OCTVB temp is set to 65c so it bounces around 5100 most of the time. Mind the fan speeds btw. I got my pump always 100% but the fans barely spin up from their 600rpm idle. I can get the temps lower but don't see the need for more noise really. GPU also barely hits 46c full load so..
> 
> View attachment 2570582


11900K should have originally boosted to 5.1Ghz all cores. Intel added that option later where they did, you can just enable the “AIBT” option in the bios any the cpu will run 5.1Ghz all-cores, and 5.3Ghz on (2) cores.

And that 300Mhz would have made the difference to match or edge out the stock 10900K in multithreaded loads. Unfortunately Intel didn’t roll it out until after most of the launch reviews flamed the poor 11900K lol.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> 11900K should have originally boosted to 5.1Ghz all cores. Intel added that option later where they did, you can just enable the “AIBT” option in the bios any the cpu will run 5.1Ghz all-cores, and 5.3Ghz on (2) cores.
> 
> And that 300Mhz would have made the difference to match or edge out the stock 10900K in multithreaded loads. Unfortunately Intel didn’t roll it out until after most of the launch reviews flamed the poor 11900K lol.


Really? Worth a shot. Maybe if i set it to use AIBT and then apply a +1 boost OCTVB profile it'll behave like I want it to. As long as Auto cache actually runs 43 and not 41 which it randomly decides to do sometimes and the 2 best cores don't mind running 54. So far they do 53 just fine in CB R23 single thread at like, 1.340v ish. So those 2 cores aren't all that horrible. I saw the same when running Prime95 on 5.3 all core. Always the same 2 workers that crashed instantly while the other 6 just kept running fine. So it has 2 dud cores and maybe 6 decent ones. 

Might be worth doing a full per core OC. Like, just letting 6 of them run 5.3 and 2 of them 5.2 or 5.1. Can a 11900K do that? Set different frequencies for specific cores under an all core load?


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Really? Worth a shot. Maybe if i set it to use AIBT and then apply a +1 boost OCTVB profile it'll behave like I want it to. As long as Auto cache actually runs 43 and not 41 which it randomly decides to do sometimes and the 2 best cores don't mind running 54. So far they do 53 just fine in CB R23 single thread at like, 1.340v ish. So those 2 cores aren't all that horrible. I saw the same when running Prime95 on 5.3 all core. Always the same 2 workers that crashed instantly while the other 6 just kept running fine. So it has 2 dud cores and maybe 6 decent ones.
> 
> Might be worth doing a full per core OC. Like, just letting 6 of them run 5.3 and 2 of them 5.2 or 5.1. Can a 11900K do that? Set different frequencies for specific cores under an all core load?


Your bios will tell you the two best cores, so I would set those to 5.3Ghz, and then try setting as many as you can. In your bios when you select “Per-Core” it’ll show the cores with a 53 beside them. Those are your best cores.

You can set each core to run its own speed all the time, with its own per core voltage.

What you are suggesting is possible. You can run 6 cores at 5.3Ghz, and it will keep just those 6 cores at that speed.


So under a all core load in something like R23 you can have like all cores run at their own independent frequency.

Core (1) 5.1Ghz
Core (2) 5.5Ghz
Core (3) 5.3Ghz
Core (4) 5.0Ghz
Core (5) 4.9Ghz
Core (6) 5.6Ghz
Core (7 5.4Ghz
Core (8) 5.2Ghz

^ This would provide an all core OC average of 5.25Ghz. just an example. Not all 11900K’s have codes capable of 5.3Ghz, so you are able to maximize the processors capability by making up for this with the cores that are good, and singling out the bad ones, and making them run 5.2Ghz or even less of you need.

Lumi did a video on YouTube about this with the 11900K.


----------



## Falkentyne

tps3443 said:


> Your bios will tell you the two best cores, so I would set those to 5.3Ghz, and then try setting as many as you can. In your bios when you select “Per-Core” it’ll show the cores with a 53 beside them. Those are your best cores.
> 
> You can set each core to run its own speed all the time, with its own per core voltage.
> 
> What you are suggesting is possible. You can run 6 cores at 5.3Ghz, and it will keep just those 6 cores at that speed.
> 
> 
> So under a all core load in something like R23 you can have like all cores run at their own independent frequency.
> 
> Core (1) 5.1Ghz
> Core (2) 5.5Ghz
> Core (3) 5.3Ghz
> Core (4) 5.0Ghz
> Core (5) 4.9Ghz
> Core (6) 5.6Ghz
> Core (7 5.4Ghz
> Core (8) 5.2Ghz
> 
> ^ This would provide an all core OC average of 5.25Ghz. just an example. Not all 11900K’s have codes capable of 5.3Ghz, so you are able to maximize the processors capability by making up for this with the cores that are good, and singling out the bad ones, and making them run 5.2Ghz or even less of you need.
> 
> Lumi did a video on YouTube about this with the 11900K.


If your board has dual BIOS and has its own EC and LED firmware (e.g. Maximus boards; I don't think Gigabyte boards have an EC that is updated this way), make sure that you don't have an unstable overclock (that you "thought" was stable) on a high single core speed, saved on a profile when you switch from one BIOS to another, unless both BIOSes are the _exact_ same version. A BIOS with a different embedded controller and LED firmware must update the firmware to be compatible with the booting BIOS, and if your single core overclock is unstable, and the flasher crashes while updating your EC as soon as you change to the alternate dual BIOS chip, you will end up with a permanent brick (you won't even be able to power on the system), and flashing the EC on a dead board (if you can even get the EC firmware file itself from support), requires special hardware tools (Elmor's devices may be able to flash these IC's)

To avoid this happening, either load BIOS defaults on your profile with a high single core per core overclock, BEFORE switching to work on the alternate BIOS that has a different BIOS version, or if your alternate BIOS already has a yeeted single core overclock and you didn't load defaults on that before switching previously, select that BIOS with the bios switch button (when powered off but standby power is on) and press Clear CMOS before booting. Then the CMOS will be set to defaults before the EC/LED firmware updates itself.

The same rule applies for unstable all core overclocks as well. Load defaults before switching BIOS versions, and if you forgot and you went wild on the all core clocks, clear CMOS on the BIOS you're switching to BEFORE booting.


----------



## Imprezzion

I do have USB backups of my stable profiles so not a disaster if I have to reflash the BIOS. I have a Maximus XIII Hero (Z590) so I should have dual BIOS even tho I never used it and don't even know off the top of my head how to switch them. 

I'm going to slap my Dominators in there now and play with some RAM first and then see what each individual core can do by using something like prime95 so I can see which worker / core drops and just raising per core one by one. My core 3 and 4 and the preferred ones (with the asterisk) and they do 5.3 on 1.34v just fine. 4 of the others also didn't drop workers at 1.388v, the 2 worst ones instantly drop workers even at 1.510v so..


----------



## Falkentyne

Imprezzion said:


> I do have USB backups of my stable profiles so not a disaster if I have to reflash the BIOS. I have a Maximus XIII Hero (Z590) so I should have dual BIOS even tho I never used it and don't even know off the top of my head how to switch them.
> 
> I'm going to slap my Dominators in there now and play with some RAM first and then see what each individual core can do by using something like prime95 so I can see which worker / core drops and just raising per core one by one. My core 3 and 4 and the preferred ones (with the asterisk) and they do 5.3 on 1.34v just fine. 4 of the others also didn't drop workers at 1.388v, the 2 worst ones instantly drop workers even at 1.510v so..


oh my comment was about the dual bios.
When the primary and secondary bioses have a different Aura LED or EC (embedded controller) firmware, when you switch between them, it updates the firmware immediately on powering the system, as the firmwares must match a compatible BIOS. (you often see this after flashing a major bios change when the system reboots, and you see "Bios is updating...". It's not the BIOS itself that's updating at that point, it's one of several firmwares (Management engine, LED Or EC).

The board does not have "Dual EC" or "Dual LED" firmware chips (these are proprietary and are obviously stored on different IC's than the BIOS chip itself, but the BIOS itself contains code to update the other devices). So when the BIOS version is switched, the firmware is also reflashed to the correct version. But if you are using some absurd setting like a 5.8 ghz single core overclock at 1.5v specific core adaptive voltage, and you switch to the BIOS containing this "active" setting, from the other BIOS chip you were on before (that contains something else), it will reflash the firmware using a 5.8 ghz single core overclock! (since flashers are obviously single threaded). If the flasher crashes because that overclock was never fully stable, your board is bricked and there's no recovering it without very special tools.


----------



## tps3443

New CPU FUN TIME!!!


----------



## tps3443

@Imprezzion


My new 11900K report so far:

It does 3733 Gear (1) That's all it does period. 3800 Gear (1) was a no post.

However, the cores were not too bad. I started out at 5.3Ghz all cores with 1.375V in the bios. I nearly made it through R23.. I bumped voltage to 1.395V and tried again, I got a BSOD right at the very tail end of the full-length R23 test. I feel like 1.450V in the bios and I maybe would have had it. This chip was drawing 332 watts of power at 5.3Ghz hitting around 75C. I think it was a 5.2Ghz chip at the end of the day. Which is still good enough honestly. The 11900K’s core can be picky and not all of them can reliably hold 5.3Ghz AVX2 loads no matter the voltage or how low the temp is. I know someone else who can chime in on this maybe he will. @Electrosoft 

This is my 11900K quality history.

11900K X122 batch made in Vietman
5.2Ghz with 45 cache 1.450V set in bios, 3882MHz Gear (1) CL13 (2x8GB used at the time)
DELIDDED/BARE-Die

11900K X135 batch made in Vietnam
5.5Ghz with 46 cache 1.500V set in bios 4033+ Gear (1) CL14 (2x16GB used)
DELIDDED/BARE-Die

11900K X141 batch made in Vietnam
5.2Ghz with 43 cache, 3733 Gear (1) CL14
1.350V set in bios (2x16GB used)
(Not Delidded)


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> @Imprezzion
> 
> 
> My new 11900K report so far:
> 
> It does 3733 Gear (1) That's all it does period. 3800 Gear (1) was a no post.
> 
> However, the cores were not too bad. I started out at 5.3Ghz all cores with 1.375V in the bios. I nearly made it through R23.. I bumped voltage to 1.395V and tried again, I got a BSOD right at the very tail end of the full-length R23 test. I feel like 1.450V in the bios and I maybe would have had it. This chip was drawing 332 watts of power at 5.3Ghz hitting around 75C. I think it was a 5.2Ghz chip at the end of the day. Which is still good enough honestly. The 11900K’s core can be picky and not all of them can reliably hold 5.3Ghz AVX2 loads no matter the voltage or how low the temp is. I know someone else who can chime in on this maybe he will. @Electrosoft
> 
> This is my 11900K quality history.
> 
> 11900K X122 batch made in Vietman
> 5.2Ghz with 45 cache 1.450V set in bios, 3882MHz Gear (1) CL13 (2x8GB used at the time)
> DELIDDED/BARE-Die
> 
> 11900K X135 batch made in Vietnam
> 5.5Ghz with 46 cache 1.500V set in bios 4033+ Gear (1) CL14 (2x16GB used)
> DELIDDED/BARE-Die
> 
> 11900K X141 batch made in Vietnam
> 5.2Ghz with 43 cache, 3733 Gear (1) CL14
> 1.350V set in bios (2x16GB used)
> (Not Delidded)


Seems like a decent enough chip. Nothing special but not as bad as mine lol.

I have settled at using a Per Core OC of 51 for 6 of them and 53 for the 2 best ones, voltage is set to Auto, SVID Trained, and V/F Curve regulated to 1.272v load for 5.1 and 1.376v for 5.3 on the 2 best cores. Then I apply a +1 boost OCTVB to this meaning 52 all core 54 single thread as long as core temps are below 75c at around 1.376v for 5.2 and 1.448v for 5.4. Cache is 43. RAM 3733C14 gear 1. IO2 1.30v SA 1.40v. Haven't tried lower yet but I will test this tonight.

I have to leave TVB Voltage Optimization and VMaxStress enabled otherwise it'll go straight to 1.668v regardless of V/F Curve due to VID's being so high at 5.2/5.3.

Also, ASUS AI OC has adjusted itself in the meanwhile meaning it'll also run 5.1 all core 5.3 single so it realized that's possible with my cooling score. Nice work ASUS. That AI OC algorithm is really well made.

This results in about 167xx in CB R23 and pretty good temps as well.

Even tho temps are higher and this chip consumes more power on average then the 10900K it pushes way less heat into my loop. GPU temps are down like 3-4c from 48-49 to 45-46c. Probably cause it isn't direct die thus can't push heat into the loop as fast.


----------



## Solohuman

tps3443 said:


> Hey, @Solohuman I’m sure we can get your ram situated man. You definitely need Gear (1) for gaming. I have tried Gear (2) and it was difficult to see any advantage to it.
> 
> It sounds like a solid enough kit that you have though.
> 
> First things first, in your bios you have VSA voltage, and VCCIO voltage, and VCCIO AUX voltage.
> 
> VCCIO doesn’t need to be touched unless your messing with the bclk. And if your are messing with the BCLK, then 1.250V is perfectly fine here.
> 
> However, your VSA, and VCCIO AUX need to be changed immediately to 1.350V each. Set each one to 1.350V and then you can try for 3600 or 3733 or even maybe 3866 memory speeds in Gear (1).
> 
> I have ran 1.500V to both for the better part of a year, 4,000Mhz Gear (1) CL14 with 2x16GB. No issues what so ever.
> 
> I’d definitely start out with 1.350V minimum for both though. A lot of motherboard do not automatically apply the correct required voltage to the VSA/VCCIO, and Gear (2) even for like 4,800Mhz+ needs hardly any VSA or VCCIO AUX voltages to run super fast memory on Gear (2). This explains why Gear (2) overclocks are working, and you cannot get Gear (1) to post at all.
> 
> 
> PS: Some motherboards call VCCIO AUX different things in the bios, it could be labeled as “VCCIO MEM” or “VCCIO 2”
> 
> One more thing, you always want to bump the voltage for VSA, and VCCIO AUX first before doing anything, then you reboot back in the bios and try for higher Gear (1) speeds on your memory speeds knowing the higher voltage are reading to sustain.
> 
> Any of these Rocketlake CPU’s will run 3600Mhz Gear (1) with some pretty darn tight timings. I’ve tested several, and your 3466 sounds very familiar. I ran a Z490 motherboard once with a 11900K a while back, and it had VCCIO AUX voltage control physically missing from the bios. So, this forced me to get a Z590 board just to be able to control VCCIO AUX, and go higher on Gear (1). You’ve also got a lot of motherboards that just refuse to automatically increase the VCCIO AUX when you manually set higher Gear (1) speeds, so you get a “No post” on reboot.
> 
> One more thing, I always recommend going as high as even 1.475 safely on each of these items. The higher the voltage, and the further you can push Gear (1) frequencies on memory until finding your IMC’s limitations. But your not getting anywhere in gear (1) without increasing the VSA, or VCCIO AUX voltage.


Thanks for those tips, but like I alluded to in a previous post, I have already thrown high voltages (1.40v+) at both SA & VCCIO2 on this MSI Unity Z590 board, saved - rebooted. Then dialled in 3600MHz for ram but no post... keep in mind this is with latest official bios for my board so there might be something with that.. I don't know. Even dialling in the Mem divider of 100 for 3600 manually & it still won't boot properly.
In the end I just concluded I had particularly bad luck with this particular chip for gear 1 speeds. But its' game stable & benchmarks as well in gear 2 with 4800Mhz CL19 speed. 
However, with the way prices have dropped on 11th gen now, I'm eyeing an 11700KF for a "gamble" purchase. But I dislike not having iGPU on these chips.


----------



## tps3443

Solohuman said:


> Thanks for those tips, but like I alluded to in a previous post, I have already thrown high voltages (1.40v+) at both SA & VCCIO2 on this MSI Unity Z590 board, saved - rebooted. Then dialled in 3600MHz for ram but no post... keep in mind this is with latest official bios for my board so there might be something with that.. I don't know. Even dialling in the Mem divider of 100 for 3600 manually & it still won't boot properly.
> In the end I just concluded I had particularly bad luck with this particular chip for gear 1 speeds. But its' game stable & benchmarks as well in gear 2 with 4800Mhz CL19 speed.
> However, with the way prices have dropped on 11th gen now, I'm eyeing an 11700KF for a "gamble" purchase. But I dislike not having iGPU on these chips.


Hey no worries. Some chips just won’t do more than that. Your gonna have differences in 11700K’s just like 11900K’s. One advantage to a 11900K is, they’ll all do 5.2Ghz+ all cores with 43+ cache and 3733+ Gear (1) CL14 with 2x16GB.

When they first launched people laughed at the 11900K because of how much more expensive it was over the 11700K. I think with pricing right now, it’s hard to pass one up though.


----------



## Arni90

tps3443 said:


> Your bios will tell you the two best cores, so I would set those to 5.3Ghz, and then try setting as many as you can. In your bios when you select “Per-Core” it’ll show the cores with a 53 beside them. Those are your best cores.
> 
> You can set each core to run its own speed all the time, with its own per core voltage.
> 
> What you are suggesting is possible. You can run 6 cores at 5.3Ghz, and it will keep just those 6 cores at that speed.
> 
> 
> So under a all core load in something like R23 you can have like all cores run at their own independent frequency.
> 
> Core (1) 5.1Ghz
> Core (2) 5.5Ghz
> Core (3) 5.3Ghz
> Core (4) 5.0Ghz
> Core (5) 4.9Ghz
> Core (6) 5.6Ghz
> Core (7 5.4Ghz
> Core (8) 5.2Ghz
> 
> ^ This would provide an all core OC average of 5.25Ghz. just an example. Not all 11900K’s have codes capable of 5.3Ghz, so you are able to maximize the processors capability by making up for this with the cores that are good, and singling out the bad ones, and making them run 5.2Ghz or even less of you need.
> 
> Lumi did a video on YouTube about this with the 11900K.



Just because Intel has marked some cores to boost higher than others don't mean they are actually better in terms of performance or clock speed capability. All 8-core Intel chips I've come across have had slightly better performance on core 1 and/or core 2, even if the "optimal" cores are marked differently.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> Just because Intel has marked some cores to boost higher than others don't mean they are actually better in terms of performance or clock speed capability. All 8-core Intel chips I've come across have had slightly better performance on core 1 and/or core 2, even if the "optimal" cores are marked differently.


Yes but the bios marks the cores the OS will favor and use. So if you set those codes to 5.3Ghz and run a single thread test it’ll reflect a score of 5.3Ghz.

It doesn’t mean you can’t find other good cores.

Personally I want them all to be good cores. I like a nice well rounded OC, like my good 11900K is.

Amazon has already mailed me a replacement 11900K. The other one is going back. I’m hoping to find another one that can do 4,000 Gear (1) and 5.3+ all cores. But, If this next one is a dud or average I’ll just keep it and deal with it.


----------



## Imprezzion

I lol'd a bit. I had VMaxStress enabled along with OCTVB+1 and I noticed it hardly ever boosts to 5.2 from 5.1 all core only in very light loads.. yeah even the motherboard thinks the VID for 5.2 (1.608v) is so high it won't let it run it.. 

I can manually make it run 5.2 all core at 1.388-1.396v die sense and that does work but gets pretty hot. Normally I would just take the plunge and delid it but I want this thing to keep some resale value and I gotta get a new clutch + bearings in my car which is €1160 at the dealer so yeah.. 

I'm settling for by core load OC at 5.1 all core at 1.272-1.290v with the 2 best cores (3 and 4) at 5.3 in 2 core loads at about 1.376v which is perfectly stable and at least it holds 43 cache and my gear 1 3733 at that voltage still so. It's only like 300 points less in CB R23, about 200 points less in CPU-Z and in game benches it makes zero difference. I'm GPU limited anyway.


----------



## Imprezzion

What determines the max Auto cache clock a CPU runs? With it on Auto I have seen anything from 3900 to 4300 on this CPU but there's not really a pattern when it uses which. 

I kinda want it to just run 43 with IABT enabled and just not touch anything else as every manual.PC I have done so far on this terrible thing is unstable in some way. It passes all stress tests yet freezes within 5 minutes of booting Battlefield 2042. That kind of unstable. I have been able to play all evening yesterday with just everything Auto with IABT enabled and it runs 5.1 all core fine but cache was only 4000. Why did it not go to 41 or 43? What is the logic behind this Auto setting?


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> What determines the max Auto cache clock a CPU runs? With it on Auto I have seen anything from 3900 to 4300 on this CPU but there's not really a pattern when it uses which.
> 
> I kinda want it to just run 43 with IABT enabled and just not touch anything else as every manual.PC I have done so far on this terrible thing is unstable in some way. It passes all stress tests yet freezes within 5 minutes of booting Battlefield 2042. That kind of unstable. I have been able to play all evening yesterday with just everything Auto with IABT enabled and it runs 5.1 all core fine but cache was only 4000. Why did it not go to 41 or 43? What is the logic behind this Auto setting?


I’m not really sure what the logic is behind it. The cache sucks voltage like crazy. I can run a 49 cache OC if set an all core OC of 51 all cores I discovered this yesterday lol. And the CPU’s VID and power consumption would be about the same for running 5.5Ghz all cores with a 43 cache.

39-40 cache requires hardly any voltage at all. Jumping to 43 needs more juice.

Try using a very heavy load line, or run V-Droop disabled all together. This helps stability. I have V-Droop disabled.

Another thing, if you have an option to enable “Extreme voltage” I would turn that on. The 11900K has tendencies to jump over 1.500 VID for brief periods of time. And if your motherboard won’t let you, you may get instability. My voltage threshold is 1.500V and I need this enabled for high cache and high core overclocks.

I will check and see what my chip does with AIBT enabled. And I’ll let you know if it runs 40 or 43 cache.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> I’m not really sure what the logic is behind it. The cache sucks voltage like crazy. I can run a 49 cache OC if set an all core OC of 51 all cores I discovered this yesterday lol. And the CPU’s VID and power consumption would be about the same for running 5.5Ghz all cores with a 43 cache.
> 
> 39-40 cache requires hardly any voltage at all. Jumping to 43 needs more juice.
> 
> Try using a very heavy load line, or run V-Droop disabled all together. This helps stability. I have V-Droop disabled.
> 
> Another thing, if you have an option to enable “Extreme voltage” I would turn that on. The 11900K has tendencies to jump over 1.500 VID for brief periods of time. And if your motherboard won’t let you, you may get instability. My voltage threshold is 1.500V and I need this enabled for high cache and high core overclocks.
> 
> I will check and see what my chip does with AIBT enabled. And I’ll let you know if it runs 40 or 43 cache.


I just played 2 raids on The Division 2 with just AIBT, all Auto voltage, LLC4, Extreme Voltage (VMaxStress) allowed. 5.1 all core 5.3 on the 2 best, it went up to 1.492v die sense, 4100 cache light load with in game 4000 cache consistently with voltage around 1.376v. It's stable at least.

The thing is, with Gear 1 3733 2T it can run 43 cache, with Gear 2 4400 1T it can't.


----------



## TheHunter

I just returned to higher OC 5.05GHz and it still sticks with new 2x16gb and 4400mhz, but 1.34v full load is a bit much 250-260w in cinebench20, 5.00GHz is ok at 1.285v, shame it needs such huge voltage bump for last 100mhz , 5.1GHz ~ 1.38v








With this oc blck 103.20 @ 4266mhz strap I was able to break 70gb/s too , 4400mhz strap had around 67-68gb/s


----------



## tps3443

TheHunter said:


> I just returned to higher OC 5.05GHz and it still sticks with new 2x16gb and 4400mhz, but 1.34v full load is a bit much 250-260w in cinebench20, 5.00GHz is ok at 1.285v, shame it needs such huge voltage bump for last 100mhz , 5.1GHz ~ 1.38v
> View attachment 2570948
> 
> 
> With this oc blck 103.20 @ 4266mhz strap I was able to break 70gb/s too , 4400mhz strap had around 67-68gb/s
> 
> View attachment 2570947
> View attachment 2570946


Your lucky to even run that having an 11700KF. Most are 4.9Ghz.. Or 5.0Ghz chips if you’re lucky.


----------



## Imprezzion

I am going to give it a shot on mine even tho I doubt IABT is going to behave at 103.2 bclk as if it sticks to the 51 multi that is 5263 and that is in no way doable on my 11900KF. It might do the 50 multi, 5160 all core stable but even that would require at least 1.412v. 

I haven't had any crashes or weirdness so far just running IABT + Auto cache and 4400C17 1T so far all evening in different games, benches and stress tests so that's stable. But 43 cache is not. It holds up under load but for example entering a loading screen in Division 2 just hard locks the entire PC. No errors in eventvwr either. It just cannot sustain 43 cache with a high gear 2 OC.

I'll save this profile to the BIOS and switch to 103.2 and see what it does. To be continued.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I am going to give it a shot on mine even tho I doubt IABT is going to behave at 103.2 bclk as if it sticks to the 51 multi that is 5263 and that is in no way doable on my 11900KF. It might do the 50 multi, 5160 all core stable but even that would require at least 1.412v.
> 
> I haven't had any crashes or weirdness so far just running IABT + Auto cache and 4400C17 1T so far all evening in different games, benches and stress tests so that's stable. But 43 cache is not. It holds up under load but for example entering a loading screen in Division 2 just hard locks the entire PC. No errors in eventvwr either. It just cannot sustain 43 cache with a high gear 2 OC.
> 
> I'll save this profile to the BIOS and switch to 103.2 and see what it does. To be continued.


I’ve got a 11900K I could send your way that would work really well for what your trying to accomplish. It’ll run 5.3 all cores with a heavy 4500Mhz on the cache and 3882 Gear (1) perfectly stable. You can bench it higher than that even. But 5,300+ on all cores is TRUE stable in any game on the planet. It’s also delidded already. So it runs extremely cool. I ran it for a long little while as my primary and only 11900K. I have no idea what the SP rating is but I ran 5.2Ghz all cores with 45 cache before delid and 3882 Gear 1 CL13 with 2x8GB DDR4. 

Just cover the shipping cost, and after you get it, send me yours as a replacement after you get up and running with it. (If this is something you even want to do) just a thought is all.

The 11900K I speak of, lives at totally stock settings inside of my wife’s system. So overclocking means nothing. I ran a daily gaming OC of 5350Mhz with it on all cores and it was fantastic without instability no matter the game.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> I’ve got a 11900K I could send your way that would work really well for what your trying to accomplish. It’ll run 5.3 all cores with a heavy 4500Mhz on the cache and 3882 Gear (1) perfectly stable. You can bench it higher than that even. But 5,300+ on all cores is TRUE stable in any game on the planet. It’s also delidded already. So it runs extremely cool. I ran it for a long little while as my primary and only 11900K. I have no idea what the SP rating is but I ran 5.2Ghz all cores with 45 cache before delid and 3882 Gear 1 CL13 with 2x8GB DDR4.
> 
> Just cover the shipping cost, and after you get it, send me yours as a replacement after you get up and running with it. (If this is something you even want to do) just a thought is all.
> 
> The 11900K I speak of, lives at totally stock settings inside of my wife’s system. So overclocking means nothing. I ran a daily gaming OC of 5350Mhz with it on all cores and it was fantastic without instability no matter the game.


Shipping is going to be a disaster tho as I'm over the pond in the Netherlands. Just receiving it also means I gotta pay import taxes at around €80 on it. I love the idea and the kind gesture but it'll cost me a pretty penny. 

I've gotten mine to run pretty stable at 103.2 x 50 5160 all core with the 2 better ones per core load at 5264 at around 1.360v (v/f curve -0.120). It'll run anything so far including AVX2/512 x265 encoding benchmarks.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Shipping is going to be a disaster tho as I'm over the pond in the Netherlands. Just receiving it also means I gotta pay import taxes at around €80 on it. I love the idea and the kind gesture but it'll cost me a pretty penny.
> 
> I've gotten mine to run pretty stable at 103.2 x 50 5160 all core with the 2 better ones per core load at 5264 at around 1.360v (v/f curve -0.120). It'll run anything so far including AVX2/512 x265 encoding benchmarks.




Hey no problem man. Let me know if you change your mind. I’ve sent some things out that way for like $30 dollars USD. As for the import tax, I mailed a 7980XE to Taiwan once, and I listed its value as $100 per buyers request I guess so he didn’t get hammered on taxes.

Anyways, maybe consider a delid if you’ve already got 5,260 you’ll net another 100-150Mhz, with the drastically better stability. It’s the lower temps and crazy stability you get after a delid that makes it so worth it.

Ive still got to test this other 11900K. I’m tempted to delid them both and test head to head. The batch numbers are very similar.

X141H275 (This one took very low voltage for 5.2Ghz)

X141H859 (Unknown yet)


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Hey no problem man. Let me know if you change your mind. I’ve sent some things out that way for like $30 dollars USD. As for the import tax, I mailed a 7980XE to Taiwan once, and I listed its value as $100 per buyers request I guess so he didn’t get hammered on taxes.
> 
> Anyways, maybe consider a delid if you’ve already got 5,260 you’ll net another 100-150Mhz, with the drastically better stability. It’s the lower temps and crazy stability you get after a delid that makes it so worth it.
> 
> Ive still got to test this other 11900K. I’m tempted to delid them both and test head to head. The batch numbers are very similar.
> 
> X141H275 (This one took very low voltage for 5.2Ghz)
> 
> X141H859 (Unknown yet)
> 
> 
> View attachment 2571056


Import tax here is 21% of value +2% of everything under €700. If you list it as the actual value it has here (€300 ish) that gets expensive quickly lol.


----------



## tps3443

Testing my latest 11900K, it’s actually extremely efficient. I’m not testing it in my Z590 Dark testbench though.

I threw it in a Aorus Z490 motherboard/Desktop I have with just a 240mm AIO. Chip draws 150 watts of power max in Cinebench with 1.239 VID’s on all cores. It runs insanely cool 52C-57C max temps. I am still struggling to to test the IMC. This Z490 Aorus motherboard is a piece of crap.

I went in the bios and maxed out the AIO’s pump, and fans to 100%, and now it’s runs 52C in Cinebench. I don’t know what all the fuss is about on 11900K’s from people saying they run super hot. This thing runs ice cold stock on a $45 dollar AIO from best buy lol. It is the running 4.8-5.3Ghz normal default speeds, and consumes 151 watts MAX during multiple Cinebench runs.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Testing my latest 11900K, it’s actually extremely efficient. I’m not testing it in my Z590 Dark testbench though.
> 
> I threw it in a Aorus Z490 motherboard/Desktop I have with just a 240mm AIO. Chip draws 150 watts of power max in Cinebench with 1.239 VID’s on all cores. It runs insanely cool 52C-57C max temps. I am still struggling to to test the IMC. This Z490 Aorus motherboard is a piece of crap.
> 
> I went in the bios and maxed out the AIO’s pump, and fans to 100%, and now it’s runs 52C in Cinebench. I don’t know what all the fuss is about on 11900K’s from people saying they run super hot. This thing runs ice cold stock on a $45 dollar AIO from best buy lol. It is the running 4.8-5.3Ghz normal default speeds, and consumes 151 watts MAX during multiple Cinebench runs.


So, it is you who gets all the good ones then eh? Hehe. 

I'll probably buy another one soon. I'm probably better off with a K compared to a KF I guess bin wise? What thermal paste are you using btw? I put mine on Liquid Ultra just on the IHS without a delid.


----------



## kill_a_wat

Anyone know if putting a 11900K/KF in a Z490 Apex will be good for overclocking? Do I need to also get a Z590 board? Found a good price for a 11900K and wouldn’t mind picking it up to play with before 13900K releases


----------



## Imprezzion

kill_a_wat said:


> Anyone know if putting a 11900K/KF in a Z490 Apex will be good for overclocking? Do I need to also get a Z590 board? Found a good price for a 11900K and wouldn’t mind picking it up to play with before 13900K releases


It'll work totally fine. There's barely, if any, difference in CPU Overclocking on Z490 vs 590. Memory might struggle a bit more but it being an Apex, the best RAM OC board available, helps. 3733+ Gear 1 with 1T cmd rate should be attainable with good RAM.

Just make sure to update the BIOS to the latest before installing the 11th gen CPU.


----------



## kill_a_wat

Imprezzion said:


> It'll work totally fine. There's barely, if any, difference in CPU Overclocking on Z490 vs 590. Memory might struggle a bit more but it being an Apex, the best RAM OC board available, helps. 3733+ Gear 1 with 1T cmd rate should be attainable with good RAM.
> 
> Just make sure to update the BIOS to the latest before installing the 11th gen CPU.


Thanks Imprezzion that’s good news I just want limit the cost in case the chip turns out to be a lemon


----------



## Arni90

kill_a_wat said:


> Anyone know if putting a 11900K/KF in a Z490 Apex will be good for overclocking? Do I need to also get a Z590 board? Found a good price for a 11900K and wouldn’t mind picking it up to play with before 13900K releases


You need to update the management engine manually before updating the BIOS, that's supposedly the only thing you need to consider.


----------



## pipes

My experiences say notbuse 11th on z490. I have use for a little time and I don't make a good overclock. Now I try a 11900kf on z590 unify-x. I hope more good

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> So, it is you who gets all the good ones then eh? Hehe.
> 
> I'll probably buy another one soon. I'm probably better off with a K compared to a KF I guess bin wise? What thermal paste are you using btw? I put mine on Liquid Ultra just on the IHS without a delid.


I was thinking the standard 11900K is probably sold more often and you might get newer manufactured chip. When the 11900KF was normally available it was like $50-$70 more than a standard 11900K lol. 

It’s running great bone stock though, as for any overclocking this motherboard really has a mind of its own and that is not reliably possible. It is a simple Aorus Z490 board, with an overly complex bios. I change something in there and its a 50/50 if it’ll listen to me or not.


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> My experiences say notbuse 11th on z490. I have use for a little time and I don't make a good overclock. Now I try a 11900kf on z590 unify-x. I hope more good
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


It depends on the quality of the motherboard too. I know EVGA fixed the Z490 Dark Kingpin to work good on 11th Gen.

When I first bought a 11900K near launch, I ran it on my Z490 Dark KP, it overclocked the CPU and cache wonderfully and it was very stable. But the DDR4 memory was limited because there was no such VCCIO AUX, or VCCIO 2 voltage options in the bios at all, because 10th Gen didn’t use this. After EVGA added the option it was perfect! But I ended up buying a Z590 Dark anyways before they released the revised bios. 

But some cheaper Z490 motherboards only added the basic bios update for the 11th Gen CPU’s to boot up and run with basic stock operation leaving their users with no updates or fixes even today.

With expensive motherboards, it only takes a few people to complain who spent $400-$500+ on a product and the manufacturer will listen and do something about it by releasing new properly optimized bios.

In the end, you get what you pay for most of the time.


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## tps3443

@Imprezzion 


I use KPX Kingpin thermal paste at the moment. Or I will use Kryonaut Extreme “Pink stuff” or even Thermalright TFX.

All of these compete the same on a CPU with a IHS installed.

If you are using bare-die/direct die. Then liquid metal all the way! It’s always 10C cooler than any thermal
paste.


Using liquid metal on a IHS will work better than any of the thermal pastes listed above, but it will ruin a IHS. Just make sure it’s soaked in all the way too. Or your application will need to be done again in a few days because the LM soaks in to the IHS.


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## pipes

tps3443 said:


> It depends on the quality of the motherboard too. I know EVGA fixed the Z490 Dark Kingpin to work good on 11th Gen.
> 
> When I first bought a 11900K near launch, I ran it on my Z490 Dark KP, it overclocked the CPU and cache wonderfully and it was very stable. But the DDR4 memory was limited because there was no such VCCIO AUX, or VCCIO 2 voltage options in the bios at all, because 10th Gen didn’t use this. After EVGA added the option it was perfect! But I ended up buying a Z590 Dark anyways before they released the revised bios.
> 
> But some cheaper Z490 motherboards only added the basic bios update for the 11th Gen CPU’s to boot up and run with basic stock operation leaving their users with no updates or fixes even today.
> 
> With expensive motherboards, it only takes a few people to complain who spent $400-$500+ on a product and the manufacturer will listen and do something about it by releasing new properly optimized bios.
> 
> In the end, you get what you pay for most of the time.


Z490 unify buyed for 300€ dark kingpene cost too much .
That depend from the power

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> @Imprezzion
> 
> 
> I use KPX Kingpin thermal paste at the moment. Or I will use Kryonaut Extreme “Pink stuff” or even Thermalright TFX.
> 
> All of these compete the same on a CPU with a IHS installed.
> 
> If you are using bare-die/direct die. Then liquid metal all the way! It’s always 10C cooler than any thermal
> paste.
> 
> 
> Using liquid metal on a IHS will work better than any of the thermal pastes listed above, but it will ruin a IHS. Just make sure it’s soaked in all the way too. Or your application will need to be done again in a few days because the LM soaks in to the IHS.


Meh. I usually lap and pre prep the IHS's with Liquid Ultra / Conductonaut beforehand but I didn't have enough Liquid Ultra left for that. Temps haven't changed yet at all. If it goes nuclear i'll just slap some Conductonaut on it... Got plenty of that stuff still. It would be an interesting experiment. Conductonaut on a Liquid Ultra prepped IHS.. nothing bad will happen.. right?.. hehe.

As for paste, my trusty 30gram Prolimatech Pk-3 is almost out and can't get it anymore so I'll probably switch to KPX as well once it runs out. I hate the regular kryonaut. Way too stiff for my liking.


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> Z490 unify buyed for 300€ dark kingpene cost too much .
> That depend from the power
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


The Z490 Dark “Kingpin” version was the same as the Z490 Dark. EVGA got Vince kingpin to hand sign every Z490 Dark Box, then he put his own touch on the bios etc. And EVGA whole sales them for $100-$150 cheaper than the standard Z490 Dark. It was actually pretty smart. They were only $399.99.


And now you can grab a brand new Z590 Dark for like $250


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## pipes

tps3443 said:


> The Z490 Dark “Kingpin” version was the same as the Z490 Dark. EVGA got Vince kingpin to hand sign every Z490 Dark Box, then he put his own touch on the bios etc. And EVGA whole sales them for $100-$150 cheaper than the standard Z490 Dark. It was actually pretty smart. They were only $399.99.
> 
> 
> And now you can grab a brand new Z590 Dark for like $250


you can find a dark at that price in Italy, not even thinking about it on the Evga website ... anyway, apart from the fact that they are monopolized thieves, I don't think I will return to Evga after the bad adventure with the x99 classified dead after 3 months. I think it's not worth spending all that money to have "a few" MHz more. I got a z590 unify-x for 273 € on Amazon after the z490 unify and at least it lasted 2 years and still goes .......

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> you can find a dark at that price in Italy, not even thinking about it on the Evga website ... anyway, apart from the fact that they are monopolized thieves, I don't think I will return to Evga after the bad adventure with the x99 classified dead after 3 months. I think it's not worth spending all that money to have "a few" MHz more. I got a z590 unify-x for 273 € on Amazon after the z490 unify and at least it lasted 2 years and still goes .......
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I use EVGA primarily for the warranty and great customer service. New and used EVGA parts have the remainder of the 3 year warranty in the USA, if it’s purchased brand new you can also extend the warranty to 10 years, so if it broke years later it would be replaced with something equivalent for the current time period most of the time. Not to mention, if you call them a real person will answer the phone and help you. It is hard to beat it. I always recommend someone using what they like best, but I wouldn’t let (1) dead part prevent me from using any brand name for future builds. I’ve had AMD and Intel CPU’s up and die on me. If I decoded to stop using either, I’d have to just drop PC all together and go with Apple or something lol.

Anyways, other manufacturers really make you feel like your left hanging sometimes too. Fill out a form, wait for a response, it’s terrible.

Things break that’s for sure.

I’m glad you’re happy with your Unify motherboard though. No need to change things around. Use what works best for you friend. You’ll get the most of out these chips on any Z590 board. Silicon quality and cooling are the most important.


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## tps3443

UPDATE:

I have tested all of the 11900K’s in my testbench. Here are the results of the memory overclocking abilities.

I set 1.500V SA, and 1.500V IO AUX on all CPU’s. I would set 63/63/63/63 RTL’s manually, and try to post the highest in Gear (1). All CPU’s were tested on a EVGA Z590 Dark motherboard


11900K 3,882Mhz Gear 1.
11900K 4,133Mhz Gear 1.
11900K 3,733Mhz Gear 1.
11900K 3,867Mhz Gear 1.


It would seem plausible maybe that (1 in 4) 11900K’s can hit 4000 at Gear (1) someone told me this before. But I truly feel like if I had another, there is a good chance it would not hit 4000 Gear (1) 😂


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## tps3443

Testing the newest 11900K, and it really does have decent silicon. I have 1.300v set in the bios with 5.2Ghz all cores. Max power consumption is 238 watts running “Aida 64 FPU Stress”

3,867Mhz (Gear 1) 

Great low power 5.2Ghz chip. It feels like I can reduce voltage even further.

(No chilled water at all)


----------



## kill_a_wat

I just picked up my 11900K. Batch# is X135 Made in Vietnam, fingers crossed


----------



## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> I just picked up my 11900K. Batch# is X135 Made in Vietnam, fingers crossed


I have a really really nice 11900K, and it is just a blast to own and use, I was actually searching for a 2nd one just like it or maybe even similar. But my golden 11900K can run 5.5Ghz all cores and 4.6Ghz cache totally stable during AVX2 loads with 0 AVX offsets. The IMC can do 4000+ Gear (1) with 2x16GB sticks.

Its a real monster of a chip that makes other 11900K’s run away SKURD lol. Kidding.

I have (3) other 11900K’s and I have not found anything close to this good yet. None of the (3) will do more than 3880ish Gear 1 on the IMC, and so far only (1) of the (3) shows the potential 5.3Ghz all cores stability.

I wish everyone could experience an 11900K like that though.

R23 full length 10 minute test is a great “Quick check” with the 11900K to give you an idea how close to stability it may be.

Good luck in getting a good one!! I wish everyone did.


PS: My golden 11900K is also a X135. Manufactured the 35th week of 2021. That is it’s no longer attached IHS.


----------



## kill_a_wat

Hi mine is the same batch X135M665 hopefully it is good, I don’t know how to overclock 11th gen so slowly I’ll learn I guess


----------



## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> Hi mine is the same batch X135M665 hopefully it is good, I don’t know how to overclock 11th gen so slowly I’ll learn I guess



I don’t know what the means but.…You could have a really good chip on your hands. Or Not lol.


The same exact batch number?? That’s like unheard of. I’m curious how this goes now!


----------



## tps3443

Testing the newest 11900K on my test bench and Z590 Dark motherboard. It is a great 11900K so far. Good IMC, and Good CPU cores!


[email protected] in the bios. (All-Cores) BATCH# X141M859

3867Mhz Gear 1 CL14 (The memory can do a little better timing and RTL wise)

I have not touched the cache yet at all.

(Chip is not delidded at all) (10+ minute R23 run)


----------



## kill_a_wat

What is a good all core of overclock for the 11900K? It seems that alot need 1.4v Or higher for 5.3ghz…? Also there doesn’t seem to be many 11900k doing 5.3GHz+.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Testing the newest 11900K on my test bench and Z590 Dark motherboard. It is a great 11900K so far. Good IMC, and Good CPU cores!
> 
> 
> [email protected] in the bios. (All-Cores) BATCH# X141M859
> 
> 3867Mhz Gear 1 CL14 (The memory can do a little better timing and RTL wise)
> 
> I have not touched the cache yet at all.
> 
> (Chip is not delidded at all) (10+ minute R23 run)
> 
> View attachment 2571205


And that is with KPX? That thing runs cool.. what block are you using? I'm grasping at straws here but I wish my temps, even with liquid metal, were that good.. at a similar voltage at 5.2 i'm looking at 85-88c core temps on mine in R23.

I'm running a EK Velocity D-RGB block btw. Bought it more for the looks then the raw performance but according to techpowerup's block round up reviews it should be pretty well near the top.

If the quote the garage is giving me for the clutch in my 307CC is lower then I budgeted for I will order another one. Otherwise it'll have to wait till end of the month and my paycheck lol.


----------



## pipes

tps3443 said:


> Testing the newest 11900K, and it really does have decent silicon. I have 1.300v set in the bios with 5.2Ghz all cores. Max power consumption is 238 watts running “Aida 64 FPU Stress”
> 
> 3,867Mhz (Gear 1)
> 
> Great low power 5.2Ghz chip. It feels like I can reduce voltage even further.
> 
> (No chilled water at all)


What batch?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

This my CPU arrived today









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> What is a good all core of overclock for the 11900K? It seems that alot need 1.4v Or higher for 5.3ghz…? Also there doesn’t seem to be many 11900k doing 5.3GHz+.



My golden 11900K can do 1.330V in the bios at 5.3Ghz, all cores, with a 45 cache. If I reduce the cache I can reduce the voltage even further. I think I can run a 5.3Ghz with 41 cache with like 1.300V or something like that. Load VID's in HWInfo might hit 1.342


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> And that is with KPX? That thing runs cool.. what block are you using? I'm grasping at straws here but I wish my temps, even with liquid metal, were that good.. at a similar voltage at 5.2 i'm looking at 85-88c core temps on mine in R23.
> 
> I'm running a EK Velocity D-RGB block btw. Bought it more for the looks then the raw performance but according to techpowerup's block round up reviews it should be pretty well near the top.
> 
> If the quote the garage is giving me for the clutch in my 307CC is lower then I budgeted for I will order another one. Otherwise it'll have to wait till end of the month and my paycheck lol.



It all depends largely on the quality of the soldered TIM under the IHS, and how the silicon will act and behave, they are all different. Some run hot, some run cooler, some chips care about temps a lot, some do not care one bit and they’ll run whatever frequency no matter how hot they are.

I am using an Optimus Signature V2 Nickel waterblock, 1080x45 Alphacool Nexxxos radiator, KPX thermalpaste. (2) D5 pumps at 100%

Some 11900K's run cooler than other 11900K's, but if you delid them all, they all run around the same temps. There is also silicon that can sort of resist heat. It will continue running stable even if it is at the bleeding edge of 90+C.

This 11900K is not delidded yet. But it looks like it can manage 5.3Ghz on all cores totally stable with 1.390V in the bios.


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> This my CPU arrived today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk



I love a fresh 11900K!!! I still have a lot of testing to do with mine. I wish I had like (10) more.


----------



## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> What is a good all core of overclock for the 11900K? It seems that alot need 1.4v Or higher for 5.3ghz…? Also there doesn’t seem to be many 11900k doing 5.3GHz+.


Have you tested the CPU yet? Do this please. Go in the bios, and enable everything to default, Then run Cinebench with HWInfo open. This will tell us the auto VID’s, and the max power consumption of the default cpu with auto voltage.

Then I could report back what overclock I would try from there.

There is a wide range of 11900K’s. Some want 1.450V for 5.2GHz, while others may want 1.275V for 5.2Ghz.


----------



## pipes

Try 5 GHZ at 1.40...so bad temp on prime95 test without avx avx 2 avx all disable on test

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

temps after cinebench r23. comparison with other user temp in the same benchmark, is it possible?


----------



## pipes

tps3443 said:


> I have a really really nice 11900K, and it is just a blast to own and use, I was actually searching for a 2nd one just like it or maybe even similar. But my golden 11900K can run 5.5Ghz all cores and 4.6Ghz cache totally stable during AVX2 loads with 0 AVX offsets. The IMC can do 4000+ Gear (1) with 2x16GB sticks.
> 
> Its a real monster of a chip that makes other 11900K’s run away SKURD lol. Kidding.
> 
> I have (3) other 11900K’s and I have not found anything close to this good yet. None of the (3) will do more than 3880ish Gear 1 on the IMC, and so far only (1) of the (3) shows the potential 5.3Ghz all cores stability.
> 
> I wish everyone could experience an 11900K like that though.
> 
> R23 full length 10 minute test is a great “Quick check” with the 11900K to give you an idea how close to stability it may be.
> 
> Good luck in getting a good one!! I wish everyone did.
> 
> 
> PS: My golden 11900K is also a X135. Manufactured the 35th week of 2021. That is it’s no longer attached IHS.
> 
> View attachment 2571204


It's delis, true? If is yes, how many degrees have you gained?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> It's delis, true? If is yes, how many degrees have you gained?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Yes it is delidded. It lowered temps by around 10c. And it helped stabilized 5.5Ghz.

I have delidded another 11900K, and it lowered temps even further than that. They are all different in how they respond to the delid.


----------



## pipes

tps3443 said:


> Yes it is delidded. It lowered temps by around 10c. And it helped stabilized 5.5Ghz.
> 
> I have delidded another 11900K, and it lowered temps even further than that. They are all different in how they respond to the delid.


So good. What have you use for delid?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> So good. What have you use for delid?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


First things first. The 11900K is similar to 12900K both have a very thick substrate, and very thin die! This makes the die fragile during a delid if its cold. You also have very small SMD's around the die on the substrate making the IHS tough to move around. The good news is, I have completely wrecked a 11900K by tearing off about 19 small SMD's and it still works perfectly fine. My 2nd and golden 11900K delid went much smoother (No damage was done) Anyways, you want to bake the 11900K for about 20 minutes at 325F. This will heat the solder up, make it soft. And use a delid tool to slowly go back and forward with the IHS until it falls off. Be patient, and it will go well.

I have done two 11900K's and they both work perfect. Just take your time, and be careful with it.


----------



## pipes

I have reach 5.2 GHz at 1.45 volt with this cpu.
I test with prime and a thread stop work for error. 
Oct no give error which test say true or not?
All test has disable avx

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

tps3443 said:


> First things first. The 11900K is similar to 12900K both have a very thick substrate, and very thin die! This makes the die fragile during a delid if its cold. You also have very small SMD's around the die on the substrate making the IHS tough to move around. The good news is, I have completely wrecked a 11900K by tearing off about 19 small SMD's and it still works perfectly fine. My 2nd and golden 11900K delid went much smoother (No damage was done) Anyways, you want to bake the 11900K for about 20 minutes at 325F. This will heat the solder up, make it soft. And use a delid tool to slowly go back and forward with the IHS until it falls off. Be patient, and it will go well.
> 
> I have done two 11900K's and they both work perfect. Just take your time, and be careful with it.


do you use his ihs or do you have a copper costume? or die naked?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Solohuman

Not buying anymore RKL chips until I see real time pricing of RL & AM5 chips in the coming weeks, also very curious how much mobos for these platforms are going to be in this world of supply chain issues & growing inflation.


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## Imprezzion

@tps3443 

I'm getting a second 11900KF thanks to my colleague. He's upgrading his 4690K to a 11900KF as well as the CPU and a MSI Z590 Edge (€139) is super cheap now due to clearance and he doesn't OC anyway so he will give me his new CPU so I can bin it against mine and he'll keep the worse of the 2. 

Let's hope for a better one!


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## pipes

from Amazon I will get my third 11900kf, let's see what batch will have and how it will go in oc, with the processor mounted now I can be stable at [email protected] cache at [email protected]

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## kill_a_wat

I finally got to spend some time to install and tweak the 11900K tonight.

Current overclock:

5.3Ghz @ 1.41v Bios LLC7 (load is 1.38-1.39)
Uncore Frequency: 4500Mhz
32gb GSkill @ 3866Mhz Gear 1 14-15-15-28 2N

Motherboard: ASUS Apex XII with 2601 BIOS
CPU is stock, with Conductonaut LM using Heatkiller Pro IV CPU block to a MORA420

Tested with CB R20, R23 and Prime Small FFT (No AVX) and Karhu. I have not been able to post with RAM @ 4000Mhz Gear 1 But I will try some more later.


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## kill_a_wat

Also, I find it much better than 10900K - no corrected WHEAs only BSOD which I prefer


----------



## pipes

kill_a_wat said:


> I finally got to spend some time to install and tweak the 11900K tonight.
> 
> Current overclock:
> 
> 5.3Ghz @ 1.41v Bios LLC7 (load is 1.38-1.39)
> Uncore Frequency: 4500Mhz
> 32gb GSkill @ 3866Mhz Gear 1 14-15-15-28 2N
> 
> Motherboard: ASUS Apex XII with 2601 BIOS
> CPU is stock, with Conductonaut LM using Heatkiller Pro IV CPU block to a MORA420
> 
> Tested with CB R20, R23 and Prime Small FFT (No AVX) and Karhu. I have not been able to post with RAM @ 4000Mhz Gear 1 But I will try some more later.


Are you stable on prime95?
That is good result...so good

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> Are you stable on prime95?
> That is good result...so good
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk



His CPU has the exact same batch number as my golden 11900K. Like.. EXACTLY the same lol. It is the strangest thing.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> @tps3443
> 
> I'm getting a second 11900KF thanks to my colleague. He's upgrading his 4690K to a 11900KF as well as the CPU and a MSI Z590 Edge (€139) is super cheap now due to clearance and he doesn't OC anyway so he will give me his new CPU so I can bin it against mine and he'll keep the worse of the 2.
> 
> Let's hope for a better one!



I hope you can find a good one. I put my Gold 11900K back in.


----------



## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> I finally got to spend some time to install and tweak the 11900K tonight.
> 
> Current overclock:
> 
> 5.3Ghz @ 1.41v Bios LLC7 (load is 1.38-1.39)
> Uncore Frequency: 4500Mhz
> 32gb GSkill @ 3866Mhz Gear 1 14-15-15-28 2N
> 
> Motherboard: ASUS Apex XII with 2601 BIOS
> CPU is stock, with Conductonaut LM using Heatkiller Pro IV CPU block to a MORA420
> 
> Tested with CB R20, R23 and Prime Small FFT (No AVX) and Karhu. I have not been able to post with RAM @ 4000Mhz Gear 1 But I will try some more later.



A lot of 11900K's cannot do 3867Mhz in Gear 1. So this is a good sign at least. You may have to increase the VSA voltage, and increase the VCCIO Aux voltage. I would start with 1.350 and work up from there. I would never run more than 1.500v daily.


----------



## pipes

something that does not return or I do not understand, the cache at 44 seems more stable with automatic voltage and the vccsa is sent to 1.20 and before at 1.38 it gave an error. you think? too high 1.38?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## GeneO

pipes said:


> something that does not return or I do not understand, the cache at 44 seems more stable with automatic voltage and the vccsa is sent to 1.20 and before at 1.38 it gave an error. you think? too high 1.38?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


VCCSA and VCCIO often have a sweet spot, too high is not stable and too low not stable.


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> something that does not return or I do not understand, the cache at 44 seems more stable with automatic voltage and the vccsa is sent to 1.20 and before at 1.38 it gave an error. you think? too high 1.38?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


I’ve never experienced the problem with a 11900K, it doesn’t seem to care. I have had it act funny going past 1.600V on DDR4 voltage though.

How long do you run Prime 95 (Small FFT’s) (Non-AVX). Before calling something stable? 

I’m trying to find the lowest possible voltage and power for 5.3Ghz.

Is 1 hour good?


----------



## kill_a_wat

I think 1hr P95 (No AVX) is plenty. I managed to boot 4000Mhz Gear 1...this poor 11900k...


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## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> I think 1hr P95 (No AVX) is plenty. I managed to boot 4000Mhz Gear 1...this poor 11900k...


Dude it must be similar to mine! What voltages are you running on IO/SA? Mine scales on past 5.3Ghz easy. You can get 5.4 before the delid. Then a delid will give you 5.5.


I’m really shocked it’s working out for you. Such a CPU is super RARE!


----------



## tps3443

@Imprezzion

You need to hunt down a X135M665 batch 11900K. Chances are it’ll be a beast!


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## tps3443

@kill_a_wat

What is the SP rating, do you know?


----------



## kill_a_wat

Yes, it is showing as SP50 on my Z490 Apex BIOS 2601. I manually installed the latest ME drivers, then updated the BIOS before installing. I didn't think SP ratings for 900K chips could go that low...maybe the newer batches?


----------



## tps3443

kill_a_wat said:


> Yes, it is showing as SP50 on my Z490 Apex BIOS 2601. I manually installed the latest ME drivers, then updated the BIOS before installing. I didn't think SP ratings for 900K chips could go that low...maybe the newer batches?


Oh well, as long as it overclocks good that is all that matters.


----------



## pipes

After 1 hour i tale error but I have raised voltage system agent and I am stable with cache too

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

tps3443 said:


> I’ve never experienced the problem with a 11900K, it doesn’t seem to care. I have had it act funny going past 1.600V on DDR4 voltage though.
> 
> How long do you run Prime 95 (Small FFT’s) (Non-AVX). Before calling something stable?
> 
> I’m trying to find the lowest possible voltage and power for 5.3Ghz.
> 
> Is 1 hour good?


Have you a deli cpu? Direct die or ihs costume or original? Temps? If yes there is a different, I think, my CPU with prime95 and no avx_all reach 90°...I use 2 360 radiator DCC pump and supremacy Evo full nickel


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> Have you a deli cpu? Direct die or ihs costume or original? Temps? If yes there is a different, I think, my CPU with prime95 and no avx_all reach 90°...I use 2 360 radiator DCC pump and supremacy Evo full nickel



My CPU is delidded. I use a larger external radiator, I use (2) D5 pumps, and I have a 1/2HP water chiller. I also use a Optimus V2 Signature Nickel waterblock. This is all on a open Praxis Complete Edition test bench.

But even with all of this, I cannot force my bad 11900K’s to be good 11900K’s.

CPU’s are either good or they’re bad. Some 11900K’s have bad cores. So you need to run some cores at 5.2, and the others at 5.3.


My water chiller is off, and the water is at 22.7C at the moment. I’m just using my PC for work currently, so a fairly minimal load.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> My CPU is delidded. I use a larger external radiator, I use (2) D5 pumps, and I have a 1/2HP water chiller. I also use a Optimus V2 Signature Nickel waterblock. This is all on a open Praxis Complete Edition test bench.
> 
> But even with all of this, I cannot force my bad 11900K’s to be good 11900K’s.
> 
> CPU’s are either good or they’re bad. Some 11900K’s have bad cores. So you need to run some cores at 5.2, and the others at 5.3.
> 
> 
> My water chiller is off, and the water is at 22.7C at the moment. I’m just using my PC for work currently, so a fairly minimal load.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2571608
> 
> View attachment 2571610
> 
> View attachment 2571609


What bench table is that? I have been looking for a good one for quite a while as I don't wanna run a case anymore tbh. Does it fit 420 rads without sticking out?


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## pipes

tps3443 said:


> La mia CPU è delidded. Uso un radiatore esterno più grande, uso (2) pompe D5 e ho un refrigeratore d'acqua da 1/2 HP. Uso anche un waterblock Optimus V2 Signature Nickel. Tutto questo su un banco di prova Praxis Complete Edition aperto.
> 
> Ma anche con tutto questo, non posso forzare i miei cattivi 11900K a essere buoni 11900K.
> 
> Le CPU o sono buone o sono cattive. Alcuni 11900K hanno core difettosi. Quindi è necessario eseguire alcuni core a 5.2 e gli altri a 5.3.
> 
> 
> Il mio refrigeratore d'acqua è spento e l'acqua è a 22,7°C al momento. Attualmente sto solo usando il mio PC per lavoro, quindi un carico abbastanza minimo.
> 
> 
> [ALLEGARE=completo]2571608[/ALLEGARE]
> [ALLEGARE=completo]2571610[/ALLEGARE]
> [ALLEGARE=completo]2571609[/ALLEGARE]
> [/CITAZIONE]


Nice work, so beautiful white benchtable


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## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> What bench table is that? I have been looking for a good one for quite a while as I don't wanna run a case anymore tbh. Does it fit 420 rads without sticking out?


I have this exact one. I just have the wings on the side removed. My original plan was to mount a 1,080x45 rad on each wing. But it’s literally like 4+ ft wide like this lol. And the 1080x45 rads are pretty heavy once full of water.


It also comes with both feet, so you can use it angled or flat. The complete edition is nice, it includes all of the accessories.


I will probably never go back to a case again. It’s so nice to have your PC always open. 









Praxis WetBenchSX Complete Edition


THE BEST BENCH JUST GOT BETTER That perfection is a moving target is no reason to not chase it. The WetbenchSX is the result of our pursuit. Never happy with "good enough", we made the new bench more compact, modular, rigid, and all-around faster and easier to use than its predecessor. Be it for...




www.primochill.com


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## tps3443

So far I have been testing 5.3Ghz all cores with 45 cache/ring to the absolute limits of Prime 95 stability, with the lowest voltage possible. I’m down to 1.325V in the bios. Load VID Max during Prime 95 is 1.373V.

I let it run for 1 hour and 5 minutes each time, and reduce voltage -0.005 each time it passes. I’ll probably let my final settings go for 2-3 hours just to be sure it’s good.


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## tps3443

Also, something interesting I wanted to share. The Guru3D review of the 11700KF.

I’m absolutely shocked at how good it performs. See, the 11700K has a +200Mhz higher base clock compared to the 11900K, so when the power usage goes up, the 11700K is actually able to pull a lead over the stock 11900K because it maintains higher base clocks. “Operating inside of Intel power limits that is”

I’m kind of shocked people even frowned upon this chip… This whole review looks like a win for me.

Just wanted to share.









Intel Core i7 11700KF processor review


We're back at eight Cypress Cove cores, this we test a cheaper priced model, the Core i7 11700KF. That K means it is unlocked, that F means better value as you can shave off a few bucks, this proces... An Introduction




www.guru3d.com


----------



## kill_a_wat

tps3443 said:


> So far I have been testing 5.3Ghz all cores with 45 cache/ring to the absolute limits of Prime 95 stability, with the lowest voltage possible. I’m down to 1.325V in the bios. Load VID Max during Prime 95 is 1.373V.
> 
> I let it run for 1 hour and 5 minutes each time, and reduce voltage -0.005 each time it passes. I’ll probably let my final settings go for 2-3 hours just to be sure it’s good.


Sounds good. What do you mean by load VID Max 1.373? Do you mean 1.373 is the vcore at load during P95 (No AVX)? 

Here is my daily settings for the 11900K. Not sure why my latency is so high in AIDA, maybe its my Z490. If anyone has any ideas that would be good. 










Quite happy with the CPU fun to play with until 13th gen comes out


----------



## Imprezzion

kill_a_wat said:


> Sounds good. What do you mean by load VID Max 1.373? Do you mean 1.373 is the vcore at load during P95 (No AVX)?
> 
> Here is my daily settings for the 11900K. Not sure why my latency is so high in AIDA, maybe its my Z490. If anyone has any ideas that would be good.
> 
> View attachment 2571659
> 
> 
> Quite happy with the CPU fun to play with until 13th gen comes out


Latency in Aida is incredibly dependent on Windows / background services and processes. Even something as simple as having Discord or Afterburner open can add a ns to it. Might be the reason. The polling from HWINFO64 also adds a bit.


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## tps3443

My Max VID while running Prime 95 load is 1.378V is all I meant. It is normally less with lower power consumption too. But I am using this crappy thermal paste on the die. Unfortunately, I do not have any liquid metal left.


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## tps3443

Well everyone once 13th Gen releases, 12th Gen prices will be very affordable!

Then we can move on to binning 12900KS’s!!!


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## pipes

tps3443 said:


> Well everyone once 13th Gen releases, 12th Gen prices will be very affordable!
> 
> Then we can move on to binning 12900KS’s!!!
> 
> [emoji38]


Need to wait an year in Italy, in the other state I don't know...the z690 dark kingpin or dark are available only Amazon but only one piece and not all two models

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

New CPU arrived today, this evening go to try how can go in overclock









Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## pipes

cpu with the same overclocking potential


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> cpu with the same overclocking potential


What a shame! I have (3) 11900K’s that are all about the same. And (1) that is just like a totally different CPU. You would think it’s a 11900KS.


----------



## pipes

however the 11 series I do not understand, how can a CPU that in turbo reaches 5.3 GHz on two cores and 6 cores at 5.1, cannot reach 5.2 GHz on all cores?

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Imprezzion

pipes said:


> however the 11 series I do not understand, how can a CPU that in turbo reaches 5.3 GHz on two cores and 6 cores at 5.1, cannot reach 5.2 GHz on all cores?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


That is something I have always wondered too. How can Intel guarantee stability on 2 cores when the other 6 are nowhere near good enough.... 

Well, my colleague is bringing over his brand new 11900KF for me to bin against my own so. Teardown day tomorrow I guess. Luckily I build my loop in such a way that I can swap CPU's without having to disconnect any tubing or drain the loop.


----------



## Imprezzion

Imprezzion said:


> That is something I have always wondered too. How can Intel guarantee stability on 2 cores when the other 6 are nowhere near good enough....
> 
> Well, my colleague is bringing over his brand new 11900KF for me to bin against my own so. Teardown day tomorrow I guess. Luckily I build my loop in such a way that I can swap CPU's without having to disconnect any tubing or drain the loop.


Shame. His chip is from the same store bought 3 weeks later. Batch numbers are identical. They are the same batch. Also SP50, will not do Cinebench R23 5.2 all core at 1.42v, just as bad as my own. 

I slapped my own chip back in and will run it till I find a cheap used Z690/790 DDR4 board and a 12900K/KS. Or AMD 7xxx has to really wow me then I might just have to buy some ddr5.


----------



## tps3443

pipes said:


> however the 11 series I do not understand, how can a CPU that in turbo reaches 5.3 GHz on two cores and 6 cores at 5.1, cannot reach 5.2 GHz on all cores?
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Intel will test each 11900K where two cores will run 5.3Ghz, and the rest run 5.1Ghz, if it does not it becomes a 11700K I imagine. Plus, the 11900K can run per core frequencies and per core voltage. All of my 11900K’s all had different cores that ran the 5.3GHz. One 11900K May have core 5 and core 6 that boost to 5.3Ghz. Another may use cores 3 and 4. But those cores will be used by windows to boost 5.3Ghz, while the rest are going to run 5.1Ghz.

I have not personally seen a 11900K that cannot hit 5.2Ghz all cores. The last two 11900K’s would run 5.2Ghz all-cores Prime 95 with 1.400-1.450V.

My really good chip can do 5.4Ghz all cores with 45 cache through Prime 95 at 1.400v. Or it can do 5.3 all-cores with 1.330V with 45 cache. And 4000 Gear 1.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Shame. His chip is from the same store bought 3 weeks later. Batch numbers are identical. They are the same batch. Also SP50, will not do Cinebench R23 5.2 all core at 1.42v, just as bad as my own.
> 
> I slapped my own chip back in and will run it till I find a cheap used Z690/790 DDR4 board and a 12900K/KS. Or AMD 7xxx has to really wow me then I might just have to buy some ddr5.


I may let my gold 11900K go to a new home for a really good deal, so someone else can enjoy it. I already have a MSI Z690 Unify-X (2 Dimm board), and some Corsair DDR5 6000. I’m trying to find a 12900K or 12900KS.

My 11900K will run 5.4 all-core and 45 cache easier with less power than most 11900K’s will run just 5.2Ghz. It is already delidded too, so it runs really cool.


----------



## pipes

tps3443 said:


> Intel will test each 11900K where two cores will run 5.3Ghz, and the rest run 5.1Ghz, if it does not it becomes a 11700K I imagine. Plus, the 11900K can run per core frequencies and per core voltage. All of my 11900K’s all had different cores that ran the 5.3GHz. One 11900K May have core 5 and core 6 that boost to 5.3Ghz. Another may use cores 3 and 4. But those cores will be used by windows to boost 5.3Ghz, while the rest are going to run 5.1Ghz.
> 
> I have not personally seen a 11900K that cannot hit 5.2Ghz all cores. The last two 11900K’s would run 5.2Ghz all-cores Prime 95 with 1.400-1.450V.
> 
> My really good chip can do 5.4Ghz all cores with 45 cache through Prime 95 at 1.400v. Or it can do 5.3 all-cores with 1.330V with 45 cache. And 4000 Gear 1.


It's a very luck CPU...but now I don't have more z590 system, I have return and wait 790 with ddr5 or ddr4, I'll decide in October.
Thanks to all for share experiences

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## tps3443

pipes said:


> It's a very luck CPU...but now I don't have more z590 system, I have return and wait 790 with ddr5 or ddr4, I'll decide in October.
> Thanks to all for share experiences
> 
> Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


Someone offered me some good Z690 parts for $475 shipped, and since these boards work with Intel 13th Gen it made perfect sense.

So I went ahead and bought them. The main reason I did was because I want to test a 12900KS or 13900KS with full optimization in bios, against my 11900K with the same optimization and overclocks. I’m curious how much if any noticeable difference there will be. While I love tuning to the extreme, and overclocking with insane cooling. I also play a lot of games and work from home everyday on the same system. So, I genuinely wondering if I am going to see any substantially higher FPS, or slightly higher sustained GPU usage.



*This is what I bought


MSI Unify-X (2-Dimm motherboard)
Corsair DDR5 6000 CL36 2x16GB
Thermalright bend correcting frame

The memory does 6400CL36. It’s Samsung B-Die so it is limited to only 1.435V, so apparently we cannot clock it past 6400 CL36. I’m not that worried about it though, especially with the upcoming Hynix A-Die stuff that can do 7,200+ MHz. This is more than great memory for starting out on Z690/Z790 platform. 

Anyways, right now I am fighting the decision to buy a 12900KS now and max out some credit cards, or do I hold out until the 13900K and max out some credit cards. The 13900K will have the gold halo pumping up its MSRP for a few months after launch. So, I’m thinking it’ll be a couple months at least before I do get a 13900K. Intel has at least been really good with releasing new products lately. They’ve had plenty of inventory with 11th Gen, and 12th Gen.*


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Someone offered me some good Z690 parts for $475 shipped, and since these boards work with Intel 13th Gen it made perfect sense.
> 
> So I went ahead and bought them. The main reason I did was because I want to test a 12900KS or 13900KS with full optimization in bios, against my 11900K with the same optimization and overclocks. I’m curious how much if any noticeable difference there will be. While I love tuning to the extreme, and overclocking with insane cooling. I also play a lot of games and work from home everyday on the same system. So, I genuinely wondering if I am going to see any substantially higher FPS, or slightly higher sustained GPU usage.
> 
> 
> 
> *This is what I bought
> 
> 
> MSI Unify-X (2-Dimm motherboard)
> Corsair DDR5 6000 CL36 2x16GB
> Thermalright bend correcting frame
> 
> The memory does 6400CL36. It’s Samsung B-Die so it is limited to only 1.435V, so apparently we cannot clock it past 6400 CL36. I’m not that worried about it though, especially with the upcoming Hynix A-Die stuff that can do 7,200+ MHz. This is more than great memory for starting out on Z690/Z790 platform.
> 
> Anyways, right now I am fighting the decision to buy a 12900KS now and max out some credit cards, or do I hold out until the 13900K and max out some credit cards. The 13900K will have the gold halo pumping up its MSRP for a few months after launch. So, I’m thinking it’ll be a couple months at least before I do get a 13900K. Intel has at least been really good with releasing new products lately. They’ve had plenty of inventory with 11th Gen, and 12th Gen.*
> 
> View attachment 2572500
> 
> View attachment 2572506
> 
> View attachment 2572502
> 
> View attachment 2572505
> 
> View attachment 2572504
> 
> View attachment 2572503
> 
> View attachment 2572501


I can get a 12900K new for €500 but the boards are the problem here. The only sort of acceptably priced DDR4 board here is the Z690-A Strix (it's much cheaper then MSI Edge for example) but yeah.. I don't wanna buy 12th gen with AMD 7xxx so close around the corner. I'll wait to see what that does.

On topic question: for gear 2 with 1t cmd rate at 4400mhz how low would you expect VCCSA and IO2 to be able to go. I'm down from Auto SA 1.312v all the way to 1.168v and it still seems perfectly happy. IO2 is on 1.30v but I don't think I can drop that any further.


----------



## Arni90

pipes said:


> however the 11 series I do not understand, how can a CPU that in turbo reaches 5.3 GHz on two cores and 6 cores at 5.1, cannot reach 5.2 GHz on all cores?


Intel doesn't guarantee all cores will run at 5.1 GHz all the time, only when ABT deems it acceptable (similar to the "4.5 GHz" on the 5800X3D)



Imprezzion said:


> That is something I have always wondered too. How can Intel guarantee stability on 2 cores when the other 6 are nowhere near good enough....


Thermal Velocity Boost triggers at 70C, dropping the boost frequency to 5.2 GHz.



Imprezzion said:


> Shame. His chip is from the same store bought 3 weeks later. Batch numbers are identical. They are the same batch. Also SP50, will not do Cinebench R23 5.2 all core at 1.42v, just as bad as my own.


Temperatures are incredibly important for 11th gen. My 11900K won't run Cinebench at 5.3 GHz unless core temps are below 85C, increasing voltage only makes things worse.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> Intel doesn't guarantee all cores will run at 5.1 GHz all the time, only when ABT deems it acceptable (similar to the "4.5 GHz" on the 5800X3D)
> 
> 
> 
> Thermal Velocity Boost triggers at 70C, dropping the boost frequency to 5.2 GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Temperatures are incredibly important for 11th gen. My 11900K won't run Cinebench at 5.3 GHz unless core temps are below 85C, increasing voltage only makes things worse.


In all my testing of 11900K’s no matter how cool they ran under a full load. Only like 1 in 4 11900K’s can stabilize 5.3Ghz all cores. Some of their cores just physically can’t do it. And they will crash through the R23 (10 Minute) test. Even if it’s running 45C under load.

If the chip can run 5.3Ghz, you’ll find that it will stabilize that 5.3Ghz no matter if it’s warm or not.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> I can get a 12900K new for €500 but the boards are the problem here. The only sort of acceptably priced DDR4 board here is the Z690-A Strix (it's much cheaper then MSI Edge for example) but yeah.. I don't wanna buy 12th gen with AMD 7xxx so close around the corner. I'll wait to see what that does.
> 
> On topic question: for gear 2 with 1t cmd rate at 4400mhz how low would you expect VCCSA and IO2 to be able to go. I'm down from Auto SA 1.312v all the way to 1.168v and it still seems perfectly happy. IO2 is on 1.30v but I don't think I can drop that any further.


I found that Gear (2) did not demand crazy high SA/IO voltages, like Gear (1) always did.

Anyways, I keep thinking about 13th Gen Intel right around the corner. And I think it would be silly to buy a 12900K/KS right now. But then again, I want to play with my new toys LOL. But I must be patient. 

Its going to be fun doing some first hand comparisons though. Something I’ve never done much besides like 10th Gen and 11th Gen. But that’s not really a full on upgrade.


----------



## Falkentyne

tps3443 said:


> I found that Gear (2) did not demand crazy high SA/IO voltages, like Gear (1) always did.
> 
> Anyways, I keep thinking about 13th Gen Intel right around the corner. And I think it would be silly to buy a 12900K/KS right now. But then again, I want to play with my new toys LOL. But I must be patient.
> 
> Its going to be fun doing some first hand comparisons though. Something I’ve never done much besides like 10th Gen and 11th Gen. But that’s not really a full on upgrade.


Get 13th gen. You won't be disappointed, and the clocks you will get will make your 11900K look like a dairy queen. You can even disable the E cores, but there's really no need to do that anymore unless you're playing a game that actually refuses to launch with 32+ threads (The Witcher II), but you can work around that by setting affinity to the "Launcher" via the command prompt.


----------



## Imprezzion

Falkentyne said:


> Get 13th gen. You won't be disappointed, and the clocks you will get will make your 11900K look like a dairy queen. You can even disable the E cores, but there's really no need to do that anymore unless you're playing a game that actually refuses to launch with 32+ threads (The Witcher II), but you can work around that by setting affinity to the "Launcher" via the command prompt.


Hmm. I might just do that as well if pricing is reasonable since they'll run ddr4 as well. Difficult choices. I kinda wanna wait and see after both AMD 7 and Intel 13 launched which one is better. Obviously Intel will be cheaper for me as even with Z790 I can stay on DDR4. I hope 13th gen can run DR B-Die 4400 on gear 1!

As for affinity. I purchased Process Lasso license so I can set affinity with that permanently for applications. I use it for lots of tweaks and things. Like auto switching windows power profile with applications and affinity and such.


----------



## tps3443

How are Z690 boards priced over there? Should be coming down in price maybe. I know here they are really affordable compared to 3-6 months ago. Seeing how they will support Z690, maybe that will offer some flexibility.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> How are Z690 boards priced over there? Should be coming down in price maybe. I know here they are really affordable compared to 3-6 months ago. Seeing how they will support Z690, maybe that will offer some flexibility.


Bad lol. Around €280-320 for a worth while DDR 4 board like Strix-A or Edge. If I go DDR 5 and something like a Maximus Apex it's like €699. Unify is €455..


----------



## kill_a_wat

Imprezzion said:


> Shame. His chip is from the same store bought 3 weeks later. Batch numbers are identical. They are the same batch. Also SP50, will not do Cinebench R23 5.2 all core at 1.42v, just as bad as my own.
> 
> I slapped my own chip back in and will run it till I find a cheap used Z690/790 DDR4 board and a 12900K/KS. Or AMD 7xxx has to really wow me then I might just have to buy some ddr5.


Are you able to game at 5.3Ghz? Should be much easier than running CB @ 5.3Ghz+


----------



## Imprezzion

kill_a_wat said:


> Are you able to game at 5.3Ghz? Should be much easier than running CB @ 5.3Ghz+


Technically yes, both chips can do this, but they need around 1.510-1.524v (die sense) with 1.58-1.60v VID's to do so. It gets as high as 86c in BF2042 / Division 2 then.

My own can hold 5.2 all core in games and Cinebench R23 but needs 1.456v for it. This is just not efficient anymore compared to just using IABT 5.1 at much lower voltages. The extra power and temp isn't worth the 100Mhz.

I can run 5.15 on all cores with 103.2 BCLK keeping the voltage under 1.38v which is reasonable.

I am looking for a used local 11900K/KF that isn't V140xxxx batch like both of these so we'll see.

I'm off to push for higher gear 2 RAM now. I have been running 4400 17-17-17-34-340-1T gear 2 but I wanna see if it'll do like, 4533 17-17-17 or 4600 17-18-18 maybe.

EDIT: Crosspost from Intel memory topic, above 4400 the DIMM's themselves kinda give up and don' really wanna run higher frequencies but I was able to significantly tighten the tertiary timings for my normal 4400C17 OC. CPU also needs very minimal IO2 and SA. Latency is great for Gear 2. 10ns lower then a 5900X can do and only like 7ns above a 10900K without gears.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Technically yes, both chips can do this, but they need around 1.510-1.524v (die sense) with 1.58-1.60v VID's to do so. It gets as high as 86c in BF2042 / Division 2 then.
> 
> My own can hold 5.2 all core in games and Cinebench R23 but needs 1.456v for it. This is just not efficient anymore compared to just using IABT 5.1 at much lower voltages. The extra power and temp isn't worth the 100Mhz.
> 
> I can run 5.15 on all cores with 103.2 BCLK keeping the voltage under 1.38v which is reasonable.
> 
> I am looking for a used local 11900K/KF that isn't V140xxxx batch like both of these so we'll see.
> 
> I'm off to push for higher gear 2 RAM now. I have been running 4400 17-17-17-34-340-1T gear 2 but I wanna see if it'll do like, 4533 17-17-17 or 4600 17-18-18 maybe.
> 
> EDIT: Crosspost from Intel memory topic, above 4400 the DIMM's themselves kinda give up and don' really wanna run higher frequencies but I was able to significantly tighten the tertiary timings for my normal 4400C17 OC. CPU also needs very minimal IO2 and SA. Latency is great for Gear 2. 10ns lower then a 5900X can do and only like 7ns above a 10900K without gears.


That’s one issue about buying CPU’s from the same place at a similar time or at the same time. When I bought those (2) 11900K’s, they were very close in batch. One did 3867CL14 Gear 1 easily, while another did 3733CL13 Gear 1. If I ever buy another CPU sample twice. it’ll always be from two different retailers. I felt like they were almost the exact same chips.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> That’s one issue about buying CPU’s from the same place at a similar time or at the same time. When I bought those (2) 11900K’s, they were very close in batch. One did 3867CL14 Gear 1 easily, while another did 3733CL13 Gear 1. If I ever buy another CPU sample twice. it’ll always be from two different retailers. I felt like they were almost the exact same chips.


These 2 were identical. Exact match on the batch#. And both did the exact same clocks and vid's. The second one also asked for 1.63v vid at 5.3 and could not complete a single CB R23 run at anything less then 1.456v. It didn't do any better on his MSI Z590 Edge. It runs IABT 5.1 around 1.388v with Auto x41 cache and that's it. Nothing more. 

There is only 1 shop that sells them this cheap, all other shops still ask like €430 for them on stead of €359 here.

I now have a good Gear 2 baseline and will also start to make a gear 1 3733 OC as tight as my RAM will go (for example 3733 14-15-15-33-256-2T) and compare.

I have had this RAM kit for a very long time on like 4 different systems both AMD and Intel so I know what the DIMM's can and can't do and I can tell you 3733 C13 is not an option. They need like 1.55-1.58v to stabilize C14 and also 4400 will not in any way do C16 stable. They just aren't a good enough bin for that. Not that I blame the RAM for that. They are just budget 3600C16 bin after all and they do unbelievably well for such a low bin at 4400C17 with tight tertiaries under 1.55v but that's about all they have in them.


----------



## Bimppy

My IMC kinda hardwalls at 3600mhz Gear 1 CR 2 for safe voltages I would actually run everyday, so I tighten down 3600mhz to the best I could get stable.


----------



## Imprezzion

Bimppy said:


> My IMC kinda hardwalls at 3600mhz Gear 1 CR 2 for safe voltages I would actually run everyday, so I tighten down 3600mhz to the best I could get stable.
> 
> View attachment 2572663
> View attachment 2572664


Wait what? 12-13-13-14? Is that 14 tRAS? That ain't how it's supposed to work hehe. The board will at that point just pick a "Auto" value to internally correct to which is probably like 35. I'd manually set 29 (or 28) there. Probably will actually run faster that way.


----------



## tps3443

Bimppy said:


> My IMC kinda hardwalls at 3600mhz Gear 1 CR 2 for safe voltages I would actually run everyday, so I tighten down 3600mhz to the best I could get stable.
> 
> View attachment 2572663
> View attachment 2572664


You are fortunate to have 3600 Gear 1 with a 11700KF. That’s really great.


----------



## Bimppy

Imprezzion said:


> Wait what? 12-13-13-14? Is that 14 tRAS? That ain't how it's supposed to work hehe. The board will at that point just pick a "Auto" value to internally correct to which is probably like 35. I'd manually set 29 (or 28) there. Probably will actually run faster that way.


I have now tried 14 - 36 tras and 14 was the fastest so apparently that works

edit:
the values were
14 - 38.2ns lowest
20 - 38.7ns lowest
28 - 39.5ns lowest
36 - 40.4ns lowest


----------



## Bimppy

tps3443 said:


> You are fortunate to have 3600 Gear 1 with a 11700KF. That’s really great.


I can do up to Gear 1 4000mhz, but thats even close to stable for daily and for 3733mhz and 3866mhz the latency is higher than my 3600mhz with slightly higher bandwidth


----------



## Imprezzion

Bimppy said:


> i have now tried 14 - 36 tras and 14 was the fastest so apparently that works
> 
> 
> edit: the values were
> 14 - 38.2ns lowest
> 20 - 38.7ns lowest
> 28 - 39.5ns lowest
> 36 - 40.4ns lowest


That works? Ok lol. That's the first time I've seen a board not auto correcting tRAS under say, 25. I don't think my Maximus XIII Hero even lets me set it that low. My old 5900X + B550-XE wouldn't allow lower then 25. Anything lower would just default to Auto. 

I'll play around after work for a bit with getting gear 1 3733 stable and I'll see how low tRAS will go on my board.


----------



## Bimppy

Imprezzion said:


> That works? Ok lol. That's the first time I've seen a board not auto correcting tRAS under say, 25. I don't think my Maximus XIII Hero even lets me set it that low. My old 5900X + B550-XE wouldn't allow lower then 25. Anything lower would just default to Auto.
> 
> I'll play around after work for a bit with getting gear 1 3733 stable and I'll see how low tRAS will go on my board.


Yea, I’m curious how low you can get it with a much better mobo and also keep in mind I’m running my ram at 1.656v with a giant fan on it lol.


----------



## Arni90

Imprezzion said:


> That works? Ok lol. That's the first time I've seen a board not auto correcting tRAS under say, 25. I don't think my Maximus XIII Hero even lets me set it that low. My old 5900X + B550-XE wouldn't allow lower then 25. Anything lower would just default to Auto.
> 
> I'll play around after work for a bit with getting gear 1 3733 stable and I'll see how low tRAS will go on my board.


Minimum tRAS register is 14 in gear 1, 28 in gear 2
While I can't comment on AIDA64 numbers, as I never bother with them, I can confirm that PYPrime shows scaling from lowering tRAS all the way down to 14.

You can set tRAS 14 on your Maximus XIII Hero as well, at least with newer BIOSes



Bimppy said:


> I can do up to Gear 1 4000mhz, but thats even close to stable for daily and for 3733mhz and 3866mhz the latency is higher than my 3600mhz with slightly higher bandwidth


Memory latency improves with IMC frequency, even if you raise timings slightly to compensate. The IMC adds a lot of cycles to latency on top of tCL, as reflected in the RTL readout. If you think memory latency increases with frequency, it's because you did poor testing.

If you can do 3600 12-13-14, you should be able to do 3866 13-14-14


----------



## Imprezzion

Arni90 said:


> Minimum tRAS register is 14 in gear 1, 28 in gear 2
> While I can't comment on AIDA64 numbers, as I never bother with them, I can confirm that PYPrime shows scaling from lowering tRAS all the way down to 14.
> 
> You can set tRAS 14 on your Maximus XIII Hero as well, at least with newer BIOSes


Ah, that explains. I've only worked a lot on memory OC with 10th gen which doesn't have gears and doesn't allow lower than 28. 5900X doesn't allow lower than 25 even on FCLK UCLK 1:1 but i was running an old BIOS because of AMD's AGESA issues with newer BIOS and Windows 11 before I sold that and went back to 11th gen. 

I will play around with it after work. 

I have a direct 120mm 1100rpm fan on my RAM but I can't go much past 1.60v as temps still become an issue at that point. ~43c at 1.60v.


----------



## Bimppy

Arni90 said:


> Minimum tRAS register is 14 in gear 1, 28 in gear 2
> While I can't comment on AIDA64 numbers, as I never bother with them, I can confirm that PYPrime shows scaling from lowering tRAS all the way down to 14.
> 
> You can set tRAS 14 on your Maximus XIII Hero as well, at least with newer BIOSes
> 
> 
> 
> Memory latency improves with IMC frequency, even if you raise timings slightly to compensate. The IMC adds a lot of cycles to latency on top of tCL, as reflected in the RTL readout. If you think memory latency increases with frequency, it's because you did poor testing.
> 
> If you can do 3600 12-13-14, you should be able to do 3866 13-14-14


It definitely works and is better with higher bandwidth and lower latency but the voltage needed is similar from 3733 to 4000 with both at 1.68 vccsa, but even when rock solid 1000% memtest stable I have random hitches. It’s ridiculous as on paper it should be better but with competitive games the more consist frame time the better and 3600mhz feels and does actually have better lows at the trade off of 2fps - 3fps lower averages lol. I’m thinking my IMC is able to run better but something is making my frame time spike worse and a lot more on 3733 and 3866. Would BLCK overclocking it be better?


----------



## tps3443

Bimppy said:


> It definitely works and is better with higher bandwidth and lower latency but the voltage needed is similar from 3733 to 4000 with both at 1.68 vccsa, but even when rock solid 1000% memtest stable I have random hitches. It’s ridiculous as on paper it should be better but with competitive games the more consist frame time the better and 3600mhz feels and does actually have better lows at the trade off of 2fps - 3fps lower averages lol. I’m thinking my IMC is able to run better but something is making my frame time spike worse and a lot more on 3733 and 3866. Would BLCK overclocking it be better?


 Be careful with the 1.68 VSA I know Der8auer has had chips insta death around that voltage, and I have had a 10900K do that same. I would stay under 1.575V max. You’ll notice the CPU may start acting insane in the bios. It’ll almost feel like your motherboard bios is corrupt, or your motherboard is dying. And then bam! it’s a totally dead cpu all together.

You can get super low Latency with 4000 Gear 1. Around 35ns.


----------



## Bimppy

tps3443 said:


> Be careful with the 1.68 VSA I know Der8auer has had chips insta death around that voltage, and I have had a 10900K do that same. I would stay under 1.575V max. You’ll notice the CPU may start acting insane in the bios. It’ll almost feel like your motherboard bios is corrupt, or your motherboard is dying. And then bam! it’s a totally dead cpu all together.
> 
> You can get super low Latency with 4000 Gear 1. Around 35ns.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2572736


I wish I could get anything above 3600mhz stable at like 1.48v max as I have my 3600mhz at 1.42v. How does the 4000mhz Gear 1 perform against the 12900k in games? As I’m thinking of getting one second hand when 13th gen comes out.


----------



## tps3443

Bimppy said:


> I wish I could get anything above 3600mhz stable at like 1.48v max as I have my 3600mhz at 1.42v. How does the 4000mhz Gear 1 perform against the 12900k in games? As I’m thinking of getting one second hand when 13th gen comes out.


It is a beast in games. Bandwidth is around sub 65gbps.

I do not have a 12900K. I literally just bought Z690 parts for 13th Gen. I only run a 11900k at the moment. I have been tempted to buy a 12900K/12900KS. But, with next Gen so close, that would be silly.

I do not think a 12900K would offer much over an 11900K in games. It has a substantial multithreaded advantage in applications that can use that sort of thing.


----------



## Bimppy

tps3443 said:


> It is a beast in games. Bandwidth is around sub 65gbps.
> 
> I do not have a 12900K. I literally just bought Z690 parts for 13th Gen. I only run a 11900k at the moment. I have been tempted to buy a 12900K/12900KS. But, with next Gen so close, that would be silly.
> 
> I do not think a 12900K would offer much over an 11900K in games. It has a substantial multithreaded advantage in applications that can use that sort of thing.


Yea I didn't think it would bring a significant upgrade over 11900k as the IPC is still really strong, but would an 11900k bring anything signifigant over the 11700k since they are pretty much the same except for a little binning. Otherwise I think getting a 9800x3D whenever that comes out is what I will probably do.


----------



## Imprezzion

Bimppy said:


> Yea I didn't think it would bring a significant upgrade over 11900k as the IPC is still really strong, but would an 11900k bring anything signifigant over the 11700k since they are pretty much the same except for a little binning. Otherwise I think getting a 9800x3D whenever that comes out is what I will probably do.


Well, sort of. I mean, it has much higher all core boost at 5.1 (with IABT) so it will be quite significantly faster but worth it if you already own a 11700k? Not really.

I'm home now and trying out some random memory stuff. I for example tried to boot gear 1 3800 with both 100 BCLK and 103 BCLK on a different divider, both just hang on code 5d regardless of IO2/SA voltages. I went as high as 1.49v for SA before I gave up. 3733 is fine at reasonable voltages.


----------



## Bimppy

Imprezzion said:


> Well, sort of. I mean, it has much higher all core boost at 5.1 (with IABT) so it will be quite significantly faster but worth it if you already own a 11700k? Not really.
> 
> I'm home now and trying out some random memory stuff. I for example tried to boot gear 1 3800 with both 100 BCLK and 103 BCLK on a different divider, both just hang on code 5d regardless of IO2/SA voltages. I went as high as 1.49v for SA before I gave up. 3733 is fine at reasonable voltages.


I found that loosing your tRFC will allow it to boot if you get a 5d hang and raising mem oc to 1.35v at least that works for me to get 3866mhz and 4000mhz. Granted they aren't that stable at reasonable sa voltages, but you could give 1.52 - 1.55 sa and see if it boots as I was doing 1.68v on sa.

I'm running 5.3ghz when 2 cores are active and 5.2ghz for the rest at 1.485v adaptive so yea I don't think I would see that big of a boost.


----------



## tps3443

So if you look at reviews you will see some reviews where the 11700K is faster than a 11900K. And the reason why this is, is because in reviews they limit CPU’s to Intel power limits for a stock and realistic comparison under strict TDP limits. And the 11700K has a 3.7Ghz base clock +200Mhz higher than the 11900K‘s base clock of only 3.5Ghz. So when the CPU’s are throttling under heavy Intel power limited loads, the 11700K will pull ahead. That small difference shows the 11700K outpace not only the 11900K, but also the 10900K in gaming. 

Now, when you take the training wheels off the 11900K is where it can really shine. The IMC is stronger, and so are the cores. The 11700K only runs 4.6Ghz all cores, and I run my 11900K at 5.5Ghz all cores. That is a +900Mhz difference. Now, I have a really good sample, but with any 11900K you can run a 5.2-5.3Ghz all core load in gaming easily. So you will have that frequency advantage over the 11700K, and the faster gear 1 or Gear 2 speed memory advantage. 

In todays time a 11900K and 11700K are almost the same price lol.

It really depends I mean, is a 12900KS worth it over the 12900K? I say absolutely!!! Well it’s the same case with a 11900K over the 11700K.


----------



## Bimppy

tps3443 said:


> So if you look at reviews you will see some reviews where the 11700K is faster than a 11900K. And the reason why this is, is because in reviews they limit CPU’s to Intel power limits for a stock and realistic comparison under strict TDP limits. And the 11700K has a 3.7Ghz base clock +200Mhz higher than the 11900K‘s base clock of only 3.5Ghz. So when the CPU’s are throttling under heavy Intel power limited loads, the 11700K will pull ahead. That small difference shows the 11700K outpace not only the 11900K, but also the 10900K in gaming.
> 
> Now, when you take the training wheels off the 11900K is where it can really shine. The IMC is stronger, and so are the cores. The 11700K only runs 4.6Ghz all cores, and I run my 11900K at 5.5Ghz all cores. That is a +900Mhz difference. Now, I have a really good sample, but with any 11900K you can run a 5.2-5.3Ghz all core load in gaming easily. So you will have that frequency advantage over the 11700K, and the faster gear 1 or Gear 2 speed memory advantage.
> 
> In todays time a 11900K and 11700K are almost the same price lol.
> 
> It really depends I mean, is a 12900KS worth it over the 12900K? I say absolutely!!! Well it’s the same case with a 11900K over the 11700K.


I definitely might look into it as I play heavily cpu limited games and I don't really want to buy a new motherboard. I also didn't pay for the 11700k since I won it in a Newegg giveaway last year lol and I desperately needed a cpu to go with my 6900xt as the 4790k was bottlenecking it so bad.

How likely is it that I could run 5.6ghz to 5.4ghz? As I got lucky and can run my 11700k at standard 11900k speeds of 5.3/5.2.


----------



## tps3443

Bimppy said:


> I definitely might look into it as I play heavily cpu limited games and I don't really want to buy a new motherboard. I also didn't pay for the 11700k since I won it in a Newegg giveaway last year lol and I desperately needed a cpu to go with my 6900xt as the 4790k was bottlenecking it so bad.
> 
> How likely is it that I could run 5.6ghz to 5.4ghz? As I got lucky and can run my 11700k at standard 11900k speeds of 5.3/5.2.


Honestly it depends on what type of stability you are talking about, but even then..If you are just talking about “Game stable” it is very unlikely you will run 5.6Ghz with a 11900K. The 11900K I have is like a top 1%. I have tested (4) and none of them are even close. This is really a crazy good sample.

I can do 5.4Ghz all cores at 260 watts max power R20. Or 5.5Ghz all cores 330 watts. 5.6Ghz all cores is game stable.

Most 11900K’s will game fine at 5.3Ghz all cores. Not many will do more than that without a delid and extreme cooling, and even then it would not be actually stable through heavy AVX loads.

If your 11700K is already at those speeds you aren’t really missing out on anything because that’s about an average 11900K.


----------



## Bimppy

tps3443 said:


> Honestly it depends on what type of stability you are talking about, but even then..If you are just talking about “Game stable” it is very unlikely you will run 5.6Ghz with a 11900K. The 11900K I have is like a top 1%. I have tested (4) and none of them are even close. This is really a crazy good sample.
> 
> I can do 5.4Ghz all cores at 260 watts max power R20. Or 5.5Ghz all cores 330 watts. 5.6Ghz all cores is game stable.
> 
> Most 11900K’s will game fine at 5.3Ghz all cores. Not many will do more than that without a delid and extreme cooling, and even then it would not be actually stable through heavy AVX loads.
> 
> If your 11700K is already at those speeds you aren’t really missing out on anything because that’s about an average 11900K.


Ok, thank you I will definitely wait for Zen 5 3D cache cpus or 15-16th gen then.


----------



## tps3443

Bimppy said:


> Ok, thank you I will definitely wait for Zen 5 3D cache cpus or 15-16th gen then.


Intel 13th Gen should offer a 25% single thread jump. And probably double the 11900K in multithreaded or come close to it I imagine.

Going 2-3 years without upgrading a CPU is easy.


----------



## tps3443

One more thing, most 11700K’s will run like 4.9Ghz. And 5Ghz is good for any of them. Some of them could not even overclock hardly any at all. So if you have a chip like that, it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it. Pretty crazy!


----------



## Bimppy

tps3443 said:


> One more thing, most 11700K’s will run like 4.9Ghz. And 5Ghz is good for any of them. Some of them could not even overclock hardly any at all. So if you have a chip like that, it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it. Pretty crazy!


Yea I got crazy luck I have an SP score of 76


----------



## Arni90

Bimppy said:


> How does the 4000mhz Gear 1 perform against the 12900k in games? As I’m thinking of getting one second hand when 13th gen comes out.


Assuming you overclock memory similarly on both platforms? The 12900K is >20% faster


----------



## Bimppy

Arni90 said:


> Assuming you overclock memory similarly on both platforms? The 12900K is >20% faster


Damn that much? I didn't think Alder Lake was that big of a jump due to only having 8P cores like Rocket Lake for games.


----------



## Arni90

Bimppy said:


> Damn that much? I didn't think Alder Lake was that big of a jump due to only having 8P cores like Rocket Lake for games.


It's a slight clock speed bump, and a huge IPC increase.

An average 12900K will hit 100 MHz higher than an average 11900K


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> It's a slight clock speed bump, and a huge IPC increase.
> 
> An average 12900K will hit 100 MHz higher than an average 11900K


Here I am happily waiting on 13th Gen. And it’s post like this I start checking prices on 12900K/KS. I am back and forward.


----------



## tps3443

Bimppy said:


> Yea I got crazy luck I have an SP score of 76


That is crazy good for a 11700K. I have seen SP29 before lol.


----------



## tps3443

The single thread performance looks like 18-19% going from 11900K to 12900K. Single thread going from 10900K to 11900K was 25-26%.

This is R23. This makes me think it’s really really worth waiting on 13th Gen. There is also price to consider too. The 12900K will be much cheaper next month, and cheaper Z690 motherboards. Regardless there are good points for going with either option. I definitely would NOT move on to a 11900K that’s for sure! Your 11700K is good enough to ride out on.


----------



## tps3443

Looks like Intel is still manufacturing the 10900K! I have never seen a batch this late. This chip was made the 6th week of 2022. That’s crazy. I have not even seen a 11900K that was made near 2022 let alone in 2022.


I’d be curious how one of these compares. it has a batch number like 12900K’s and 12900KS.


----------



## Imprezzion

tps3443 said:


> Looks like Intel is still manufacturing the 10900K! I have never seen a batch this late. This chip was made the 6th week of 2022. That’s crazy. I have not even seen a 11900K that was made near 2022 let alone in 2022.
> 
> 
> I’d be curious how one of these compares. it has a batch number like 12900K’s and 12900KS.
> 
> View attachment 2572801


Let's see if it can match my old "golden" X016 batch SP80 one. All-core AVX stable 5.1 at 1.270v, 5.2 at 1.334v, 5.3 at 1.408v, 5.4 at 1.484v. Single core boost 5.5 at 1.408v as well. 48 cache at 1.270v, 50 cache at 1.408v. I ran it for months at 55x2 53x10 with 50 cache.

Memory controller wasn't great but held 4400C17 fine at 1.38 SA 1.32 IO.

I should've never sold it lol but it sold for more then I bought the 11900K for new..

I upgraded it because I needed the M.2_1 slot working on my Z590 Hero and wanted PCI-E Gen 4 with ReBAR to work on my 3080..


----------



## GeneO

tps3443 said:


> Looks like Intel is still manufacturing the 10900K! I have never seen a batch this late. This chip was made the 6th week of 2022. That’s crazy. I have not even seen a 11900K that was made near 2022 let alone in 2022.
> 
> 
> I’d be curious how one of these compares. it has a batch number like 12900K’s and 12900KS.
> 
> View attachment 2572801


Same batch as my 2022. Mine is an SP81, good chip.


----------



## GeneO

Imprezzion said:


> Let's see if it can match my old "golden" X016 batch SP80 one. All-core AVX stable 5.1 at 1.270v, 5.2 at 1.334v, 5.3 at 1.408v, 5.4 at 1.484v. Single core boost 5.5 at 1.408v as well. 48 cache at 1.270v, 50 cache at 1.408v. I ran it for months at 55x2 53x10 with 50 cache.
> 
> Memory controller wasn't great but held 4400C17 fine at 1.38 SA 1.32 IO.
> 
> I should've never sold it lol but it sold for more then I bought the 11900K for new..
> 
> I upgraded it because I needed the M.2_1 slot working on my Z590 Hero and wanted PCI-E Gen 4 with ReBAR to work on my 3080..


Hi,
What voltage are you reporting, vcore? If so under what load?
Thanks


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> Hi,
> What voltage are you reporting, vcore? If so under what load?
> Thanks


That 10900K was listed as die sense load voltages in Prime95 Small FFT with AVX enabled. My 11900KF runs 5.1 with die sense 1.304v under Prime95 Small FFT with AVX disabled or X265 encoding with AVX(512) enabled.


----------



## GeneO

Imprezzion said:


> That 10900K was listed as die sense load voltages in Prime95 Small FFT with AVX enabled. My 11900KF runs 5.1 with die sense 1.304v under Prime95 Small FFT with AVX disabled or X265 encoding with AVX(512) enabled.


Sorry off topic.

Mine does 1.208v die sense under those conditions (small fft avx enabled) @ 5.1, but very hot (maxes > 90c) since it is not yet delidded. So I can only run it a short time, I expect I might have to add a tad of voltage for that - so will do that whenever I delid - but it is stable at less strenuous avx long testing. With small fft avx disabled I get 5.1 @ 1.208v, [email protected] 1.28v stable..

EDIT: This is an Amazon chip, China, 2022 week 6.


----------



## Imprezzion

GeneO said:


> Sorry off topic.
> 
> Mine does 1.208v die sense under those conditions (small fft avx enabled) @ 5.1, but very hot (maxes > 90c) since it is not yet delidded. So I can only run it a short time, I expect I might have to add a tad of voltage for that - so will do that whenever I delid - but it is stable at less strenuous avx long testing. With small fft avx disabled I get 5.1 @ 1.208v, [email protected] 1.28v stable..
> 
> View attachment 2572877


That's a nice chip!. The one I had was a pre binned one from siliconlottery when they were still around. It was a 5.3 all core 5.0 cache @ 1.448v certified one. It was delidded and direct die cooled with a RockItCool direct die frame and thus ran very cool.

But yeah, I needed the additional M.2 slot and PCI-E 4.0 so I sold it for a good amount and grabbed the, unfortunately bad, 11900KF.

I'll grab another K this time after the weekend I guess. If they are still available new for a good price.

Back OT: Thanks to Gen. in the Intel DDR4 topic I changed some settings around and got a timing profile for 3733 Gear 1 which works wonders. It passed 4.5h TM5 and the CPU also runs better now. Disabled IABT and went manual 53x2 51x8 using SVID Best Case Scenario and all Auto voltages and it surprisingly runs CB R23 stable now at a much lower load voltage. It passed 60 minutes at 1.252v load with temperatures around 63-66c. It has never been able to do that with IABT enabled and using a negative offset V/F Curve at 51.


----------



## tps3443

Gear (1) 4066 is performing pretty well.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> That's a nice chip!. The one I had was a pre binned one from siliconlottery when they were still around. It was a 5.3 all core 5.0 cache @ 1.448v certified one. It was delidded and direct die cooled with a RockItCool direct die frame and thus ran very cool.
> 
> But yeah, I needed the additional M.2 slot and PCI-E 4.0 so I sold it for a good amount and grabbed the, unfortunately bad, 11900KF.
> 
> I'll grab another K this time after the weekend I guess. If they are still available new for a good price.
> 
> Back OT: Thanks to Gen. in the Intel DDR4 topic I changed some settings around and got a timing profile for 3733 Gear 1 which works wonders. It passed 4.5h TM5 and the CPU also runs better now. Disabled IABT and went manual 53x2 51x8 using SVID Best Case Scenario and all Auto voltages and it surprisingly runs CB R23 stable now at a much lower load voltage. It passed 60 minutes at 1.252v load with temperatures around 63-66c. It has never been able to do that with IABT enabled and using a negative offset V/F Curve at 51.


Don’t buy another random retail 11900K friend. I’d go after a known good bin 11900K. I’m gonna take a really good guess and say mine is a SP93-SP94 at the absolute minimum, but probably even as high as SP108.

Not only is the IMC better than most 12th Gen IMC’s on DDR4 running Gear (1), but the cores are just phenomenal. 5.3Ghz with 45 cache with 1.330V. Prime 95 stable. Or 5.4Ghz 46 cache with 1.424V. Or 5.4Ghz with a 40 cache of around 1.375V Ultra low power OC. 

The silicon lottery top 1% of all 11900K’s they tested was 5.2Ghz on (6 cores) and 5.3Ghz on (2 cores) with 1.330V in the bios. And it’s even better than that.

5.4Ghz is laughably easy to make it stable. Even with subpar cooling, because the power usage is just so low. R15 sub 260 watts. The below screen shot is before I even got my water chiller, I actually ran it again today same settings as the screen shot below, and it was 253 watts!! Because this chip can run over 4000 Gear 1 on my motherboard with such low RTL’s, I do not doubt it will also run 4000 Gear 1 on a standard (4) dimm motherboard.


----------



## pipes

seeing the products of the various users of this thread I can only deduce one thing, in Italy only garbage of these components arrives

Inviato dal mio MI 9 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Imprezzion

I have a question. Maybe one of you happens to know a "fix" for this.

As we all know my chip is... Quite mediocre... So, currently I'm running a per core load OC at 53x2 51x8 with auto vCore, SVID Best Case Scenario, Auto LLC and AC/DC loadline. This results in a stable OC and pretty reasonable voltages and temperatures with die sense vCore load in Cinebench R23 being 1.252v and it being around 1.296-1.304v in games. Max temperatures in Cinebench R23 are around 68c for the cores and in games high 50's low 60's. 

My cache is on min 8 max 41. I have all power saving and idle features enabled and I wanna keep it that way.

If I set the cache to 42 it is perfectly stable under load. However, the PC will lock up occasionally when going from a game back to desktop for example.

Is there any way without going to fixed vCore and disabling all down bin / speedster features to make it not do this freezing when transitioning load to idle..


----------



## Arni90

Changing ring frequency requires a lot more voltage than it needs to run, that's probably what's happening to your system.

You could try to force the ring to a locked frequency, that should probably allow you to run 45 if you want.


----------



## Imprezzion

Arni90 said:


> Changing ring frequency requires a lot more voltage than it needs to run, that's probably what's happening to your system.
> 
> You could try to force the ring to a locked frequency, that should probably allow you to run 45 if you want.


I can do that up to 44, 45 freezes under load as well regardless of vCore, but that requires me to turn off ring down bin which means it will no longer use idle voltages and core parking. Well, it for sure isn't worth the extra power draw to have 100-200Mhz more cache. That's why I kinda hoped it could be done without static frequency.

So, 53x2, 51x8, 41 cache, 3733C14 Gear 1.
Here's the rest of my voltages btw. Tested with 4.5h of TM5 1Usmus and 4h of different benchmarks and stress tests like Cinebench R23, y-cruncher, Prime95 with and without AVX, X265 AVX encoding, x264 non avx.. it's 100% stable like this.


----------



## Arni90

Imprezzion said:


> I can do that up to 44, 45 freezes under load as well regardless of vCore, but that requires me to turn off ring down bin which means it will no longer use idle voltages and core parking. Well, it for sure isn't worth the extra power draw to have 100-200Mhz more cache. That's why I kinda hoped it could be done without static frequency.


It's an unfortunate quirk of the ring on Rocket Lake.

It does lead to an interesting competitive OC experience, it's a good strategy to boot at a low ring frequency into the OS, increase VCore, set ring multiplier, reduce VCore, then raise base clock up to the wanted frequency for the benchmark.

The positive aspect is that you expose instability extremely quickly for daily OC setups with C-states, as the biggest stability test is to boot/change ring frequency. It's probably a PLL limitation, similar to how the IMC is also mainly limited by it's PLL in that booting requires a lot more VCCSA than actually running the system.

As for your 11900K bin, I really doubt it's anything notably worse than my own chip. Anything above 4.8 GHz starts to require a lot of voltage in my experience, the only outlier is the god-tier bin of tps3443 (which is probably helped by the delid).


----------



## Imprezzion

Arni90 said:


> It's an unfortunate quirk of the ring on Rocket Lake.
> 
> It does lead to an interesting competitive OC experience, it's a good strategy to boot at a low ring frequency into the OS, increase VCore, set ring multiplier, reduce VCore, then raise base clock up to the wanted frequency for the benchmark.
> 
> The positive aspect is that you expose instability extremely quickly for daily OC setups with C-states, as the biggest stability test is to boot/change ring frequency. It's probably a PLL limitation, similar to how the IMC is also mainly limited by it's PLL in that booting requires a lot more VCCSA than actually running the system.
> 
> As for your 11900K bin, I really doubt it's anything notably worse than my own chip. Anything above 4.8 GHz starts to require a lot of voltage in my experience, the only outlier is the god-tier bin of tps3443 (which is probably helped by the delid).


True that.. I managed to get it at least game stable and not crash when going to idle state at 53x2 52x8 43 ring but it required 1.404v CB R23 with 1.448-1.456v in games. It's "ok" enough and at least is stable but it means temps get into the mid 80's in R23 and mid 70's in games so it really isn't worth it. It's a nice profile to save in the BIOS and have handy but not for 24/7. 

Same for my GPU. It being a 2x8 pin 3080 it is heavily power limited and I have it set to a max game/bench OC of 1980 @ 0.981v curve limited with +1300 VRAM but this still throttles in some games like Cyberpunk with ray tracing enabled and just slams the power limit to 96-98% the whole time. For 24/7 I run 1935 @ 0.906v with +1200 VRAM which is more like 310-320w (~90-93%) and doesn't throttle ever.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> It's an unfortunate quirk of the ring on Rocket Lake.
> 
> It does lead to an interesting competitive OC experience, it's a good strategy to boot at a low ring frequency into the OS, increase VCore, set ring multiplier, reduce VCore, then raise base clock up to the wanted frequency for the benchmark.
> 
> The positive aspect is that you expose instability extremely quickly for daily OC setups with C-states, as the biggest stability test is to boot/change ring frequency. It's probably a PLL limitation, similar to how the IMC is also mainly limited by it's PLL in that booting requires a lot more VCCSA than actually running the system.
> 
> As for your 11900K bin, I really doubt it's anything notably worse than my own chip. Anything above 4.8 GHz starts to require a lot of voltage in my experience, the only outlier is the god-tier bin of tps3443 (which is probably helped by the delid).


Delidding a 11900K doesn’t help too much in my experience. I have delidded two of them. My first one was barely 5.2GHz stable chip out of the box “When I say barely, I mean it took some effort and work to get 5.2Ghz stable”. And delidding did help 5.3Ghz become an easy easy “Game stable” speed. But not a truly stable speed, but it really made 5.25Ghz truly stable in anything after delid.

My really good 11900K was able to easily stabilize 5.4/4.6 right out of the box with no delid at all in any sort of test, and it was a hair away from stabilizing 5.5Ghz/4.6Ghz which was the whole reason for Delidding it. After Delidding the CPU, this allowed 5.5/4.6 to become stable.


All chips are different though. Only one way to find out is to delid that thing. I remember having a 10850K that ran 5.2Ghz easily. it was a SP85. It laughed at 5.2Ghz all cores no matter how hot it ran. After I delidded it, It opened the cpu up to 5.4Ghz+ and the temps dropped off tremendously. It was almost like the factory solder job was just terrible between the die and IHS.

Every CPU acts differently to a delid as far as I know.


----------



## NorySS

ive always seen a huge 15c+ temp reduction when delidding a 11900K.
which has allowed 52/53 core speeds to become realistic, due to temps.

these are on SP chips 86 and under.

I've done three of them.

PS a see @*tps3443 *slipped past me on the 3dmark TSE chart for 11900K and 3090 combo.


----------



## asimelopesz

Imprezzion said:


> That's a nice chip!. The one I had was a pre binned one from siliconlottery when they were still around. It was a 5.3 all core 5.0 cache @ 1.448v certified one. It was delidded and direct die cooled with a RockItCool direct die frame and thus ran very cool.
> 
> But yeah, I needed the additional M.2 slot and PCI-E 4.0 so I sold it for a good amount and grabbed the, unfortunately bad, 11900KF.
> 
> I'll grab another K this time after the weekend I guess. If they are still available new for a good price.
> 
> Back OT: Thanks to Gen. in the Intel DDR4 topic I changed some settings around and got a timing profile for 3733 Gear 1 which works wonders. It passed 4.5h TM5 and the CPU also runs better now. Disabled IABT and went manual 53x2 51x8 using SVID Best Case Scenario and all Auto voltages and it surprisingly runs CB R23 stable now at a much lower load voltage. It passed 60 minutes at 1.252v load with temperatures around 63-66c. It has never been able to do that with IABT enabled and using a negative offset V/F Curve at 51.


5.3 all core from silicone lottery ? their website says max is 5.2... i have an sp of 81..am i missing something here ? lol


----------



## Imprezzion

asimelopesz said:


> 5.3 all core from silicone lottery ? their website says max is 5.2... i have an sp of 81..am i missing something here ? lol


I dunno, i didn't buy it from them. I got it used and that's what the guy told me it was. Anyhow, it lived up to it (SP86 btw). I don't have it anymore unfortunately..


----------



## asimelopesz

Imprezzion said:


> I can do that up to 44, 45 freezes under load as well regardless of vCore, but that requires me to turn off ring down bin which means it will no longer use idle voltages and core parking. Well, it for sure isn't worth the extra power draw to have 100-200Mhz more cache. That's why I kinda hoped it could be done without static frequency.
> 
> So, 53x2, 51x8, 41 cache, 3733C14 Gear 1.
> Here's the rest of my voltages btw. Tested with 4.5h of TM5 1Usmus and 4h of different benchmarks and stress tests like Cinebench R23, y-cruncher, Prime95 with and without AVX, X265 AVX encoding, x264 non avx.. it's 100% stable like this.
> 
> View attachment 2573306
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> try these settings...
> 
> 
> 
> Ai Overclock Tuner: XMP II
> AVX Related Controls
> AVX2 Ratio Offset to per-core Ratio Limit: User Specify
> AVX2 Ratio Offset Value: 1
> AVX512 Ratio Offset to per-core Ratio Limit: User Specify
> AVX512 Ratio Offset Value: 1
> 
> CPU Core Ratio: By Core Usage
> 1-Core Ratio Limit: 53
> 2-Core Ratio Limit: 53
> 3-Core Ratio Limit: 53
> 4-Core Ratio Limit: 53
> 5-Core Ratio Limit: 52
> 6-Core Ratio Limit: 52
> 7-Core Ratio Limit: 52
> 8-Core Ratio Limit: 52
> 
> Digi+ VRM
> CPU Load-line Calibration: Level 3
> 
> Internal CPU Power Management
> Long Duration Package Power Limit: 315
> Short Duration Package Power Limit: 315
> 
> CPU Core/Cache Voltage: Manual Mode
> CPU Core Voltage Override: 1.525
> we got the same motherboard and chip...it should work for you... make everything else is set as auto..
> 
> let me know if it does..


----------



## tps3443

NorySS said:


> ive always seen a huge 15c+ temp reduction when delidding a 11900K.
> which has allowed 52/53 core speeds to become realistic, due to temps.
> 
> these are on SP chips 86 and under.
> 
> I've done three of them.
> 
> PS a see @*tps3443 *slipped past me on the 3dmark TSE chart for 11900K and 3090 combo.


For sure! Delid provides a great temp reduction. Unfortunately it can’t fix a bad 11900K though.


----------



## GARZAicmg

How did i do, fellas? Got into OC for gaming, and after ridiculous amounts of bios and restarts, I think i found my SP50 11900k's absolute limit. On a ROG Strix E Z590 (102.5 FSB) @ 100fsb the bios numbers are 5.0 cpu, 4.6 ring 3733 c14-14-14-28. they upscale to 5.125ghz, 4.715 ring and 3827mhz ram speed. This was the only way i could achieve a gear 1 ram freq over 3800. Also for TimeSpy on a 3080ti MSI ventus 3x, GPU @2205 and 945 on mem clock. For gaming i undervolt to 2100 @1.1v and 750 on the memory OC.

Aida 64 40.4ns
TimeSpy 19075









I scored 19 075 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com






1.48v core
1.62v DIMM

and yes even with these voltages, i play Rust and Warzone all day with no temp issues, stock AIO and chassis fans too!

i want to post the pics but im kind of a dummy with embed stuff lol


----------



## Bimppy

GARZAicmg said:


> How did i do, fellas? Got into OC for gaming, and after ridiculous amounts of bios and restarts, I think i found my SP50 11900k's absolute limit. On a ROG Strix E Z590 (102.5 FSB) @ 100fsb the bios numbers are 5.0 cpu, 4.6 ring 3733 c14-14-14-28. they upscale to 5.125ghz, 4.715 ring and 3827mhz ram speed. This was the only way i could achieve a gear 1 ram freq over 3800. Also for TimeSpy on a 3080ti MSI ventus 3x, GPU @2205 and 945 on mem clock. For gaming i undervolt to 2100 @1.1v and 750 on the memory OC.
> 
> Aida 64 40.4ns
> TimeSpy 19075
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 19 075 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.48v core
> 1.62v DIMM
> 
> and yes even with these voltages, i play Rust and Warzone all day with no temp issues, stock AIO and chassis fans too!
> 
> i want to post the pics but im kind of a dummy with embed stuff lol


Test if it’s memtest5 stable and if you can check if that ring is stable since that latency and CPU score seem a bit off compared to what you should be getting. As you should be getting closer to 15,000 CPU score and 38ns


----------



## GARZAicmg

Bimppy said:


> Test if it’s memtest5 stable and if you can check if that ring is stable since that latency and CPU score seem a bit off compared to what you should be getting. As you should be getting closer to 15,000 CPU score and 38ns


yeah this has been a tricky one get stable, 5.1 all core works all day no matter what, but if i manually set ring to 4.7 then i have the issue where the PC exits windows but doesnt power off completely


----------



## Imprezzion

4.7 is exceptionally high for 11th gen. Most don't even make it to 4.6 fully stable and 4.3 is more the average so. That probably also contributes to your high vcore needs.


----------



## enthusiastdre

May I present the worst 11900K that I've seen here? Just opened it up today. It's a terrible chip that somehow manages to be worse than my (SP 62) 11700K -- which isn't exactly a silicon lottery winner itself either. 

Batch X114M115
*SP 45 *(BIOS 2601)

My numbers will make anyone complaining about their SP 78 chip feel a lot better. I barely managed to get it to 5.0GHz all-core at 1.385V (set) and 1.288 (get) using LLC 4. I tried raising cache to 42x and it was immediately unstable -- to the point where I couldn't even complete a single CB20 run. I quit in disgust pretty soon after that; didn't even bother testing the IMC. I don't think I can return this CPU to the retailer without being hit with a restocking fee. Very frustrating. 

A couple of potential mitigating factors: my current testbench is air-cooled (NH-D15), and the motherboard is meh (Prime Z490-A). Temperatures on 1.385V/1.288 hit 80C, so it's got some temperature headroom left, even on air. Perhaps there are some minor optimizations that would come into play once I migrate the CPU over to a Z590 Apex (and cooled by Kraken X63). But I don't think that would change things dramatically.


----------



## Imprezzion

enthusiastdre said:


> May I present the worst 11900K that I've seen here? Just opened it up today. It's a terrible chip that somehow manages to be worse than my (SP 62) 11700K -- which isn't exactly a silicon lottery winner itself either.
> 
> Batch X114M115
> *SP 45 *(BIOS 2601)
> 
> My numbers will make anyone complaining about their SP 78 chip feel a lot better. I barely managed to get it to 5.0GHz all-core at 1.385V (set) and 1.288 (get) using LLC 4. I tried raising cache to 42x and it was immediately unstable -- to the point where I couldn't even complete a single CB20 run. I quit in disgust pretty soon after that; didn't even bother testing the IMC. I don't think I can return this CPU to the retailer without being hit with a restocking fee. Very frustrating.
> 
> A couple of potential mitigating factors: my current testbench is air-cooled (NH-D15), and the motherboard is meh (Prime Z490-A). Temperatures on 1.385V/1.288 hit 80C, so it's got some temperature headroom left, even on air. Perhaps there are some minor optimizations that would come into play once I migrate the CPU over to a Z590 Apex (and cooled by Kraken X63). But I don't think that would change things dramatically.
> View attachment 2573912
> View attachment 2573913


Wow I thought I had it bad with my V140xxxx batch SP50 KF... It does 5.1, SVID Best Case, 1.380 VID's, ~1.304 get. However it cannot in any way do 5.2 all core. Even 1.496v will crash within 10 minutes in any benchmark. Always the same 2 cores so it just has 2 very bad cores. For 5.0 I require around 1.232v. 

Welcome to the terrible silicon club I guess. 

I wanted to buy another one new to bin it but them being €400 don't make a lot of sense. I will be buying a Z690 DDR4 board used like an MSI Edge or a Strix-A and a 12900K/KF/KS or even a 13900K if they are actually €589 which would be reasonable enough.


----------



## GARZAicmg

Imprezzion said:


> 4.7 is exceptionally high for 11th gen. Most don't even make it to 4.6 fully stable and 4.3 is more the average so. That probably also contributes to your high vcore needs.


DUDE, i lowered ring to 45, and changed fsb to 103, so now im a 5.15ghz, 4.615 ring and 3845c14 gear 1. Im at 39.7ns! And actually shut off naturally stable. New timespy soon


----------



## GARZAicmg

Bimppy said:


> Test if it’s memtest5 stable and if you can check if that ring is stable since that latency and CPU score seem a bit off compared to what you should be getting. As you should be getting closer to 15,000 CPU score and 38ns


I scored 19 114 in Time Spy thanks for the extra 50 pts


----------



## Imprezzion

I got it to run 52 all core all evening on surprisingly low voltage (~1.39v die sense) for my chip with some tweaks to secondary voltages and using SVID Best Case where I used Trained before but after 4-5 hours of doing raids and countdown in Division 2 it locked up solid in a loading screen... I did run Cinebench R23 for an hour and it seems to be fine under a constant load it just doesn't like switching loads, clocks and voltages. 

Maybe I should try a bit more aggressive LLC.


----------



## tps3443

GARZAicmg said:


> How did i do, fellas? Got into OC for gaming, and after ridiculous amounts of bios and restarts, I think i found my SP50 11900k's absolute limit. On a ROG Strix E Z590 (102.5 FSB) @ 100fsb the bios numbers are 5.0 cpu, 4.6 ring 3733 c14-14-14-28. they upscale to 5.125ghz, 4.715 ring and 3827mhz ram speed. This was the only way i could achieve a gear 1 ram freq over 3800. Also for TimeSpy on a 3080ti MSI ventus 3x, GPU @2205 and 945 on mem clock. For gaming i undervolt to 2100 @1.1v and 750 on the memory OC.
> 
> Aida 64 40.4ns
> TimeSpy 19075
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 19 075 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.48v core
> 1.62v DIMM
> 
> and yes even with these voltages, i play Rust and Warzone all day with no temp issues, stock AIO and chassis fans too!
> 
> i want to post the pics but im kind of a dummy with embed stuff lol


I would reduce that cache OC drastically. Because your cache is at 4,715Mhz the core voltage needs to be crazy high!

I have noticed running 43 cache OC is plenty good. And even running 46 or 47 offers a minimal
improvement.

You would be able to run your cpu cores 200-300Mhz higher with maybe even the same voltage.

Just a thought.


----------



## tps3443

Imprezzion said:


> Wow I thought I had it bad with my V140xxxx batch SP50 KF... It does 5.1, SVID Best Case, 1.380 VID's, ~1.304 get. However it cannot in any way do 5.2 all core. Even 1.496v will crash within 10 minutes in any benchmark. Always the same 2 cores so it just has 2 very bad cores. For 5.0 I require around 1.232v.
> 
> Welcome to the terrible silicon club I guess.
> 
> I wanted to buy another one new to bin it but them being €400 don't make a lot of sense. I will be buying a Z690 DDR4 board used like an MSI Edge or a Strix-A and a 12900K/KF/KS or even a 13900K if they are actually €589 which would be reasonable enough.


With Intel CPU’s lately, the earlier the sample, the better quality it is. It looks like 11900K’s are becoming worse and worse the more they make lol. Just like the 12900K is doing right now. 12900K’s are getting worse and worse the more they make them. 

I pre-ordered a 13900K on the morning of 9/27 once they popped up on Newegg, hoping to give this theory a shot.

Early sample= Good sample.

I’ve heard and seen this first hand by people so frequently, I’m starting to really believe it. Something to keep in mind if you do buy a 12900K. “Buy a old one” lol.


----------



## enthusiastdre

tps3443 said:


> With Intel CPU’s lately, the earlier the sample, the better quality it is. It looks like 11900K’s are becoming worse and worse the more they make lol. Just like the 12900K is doing right now. 12900K’s are getting worse and worse the more they make them.
> 
> I pre-ordered a 13900K on the morning of 9/27 once they popped up on Newegg, hoping to give this theory a shot.
> 
> Early sample= Good sample.
> 
> I’ve heard and seen this first hand by people so frequently, I’m starting to really believe it. Something to keep in mind if you do buy a 12900K. “Buy a old one” lol.


I agree actually. My semi-conspiracy theory is that Intel is sending out their best silicon first for the positive press/word-of-mouth, then afterwards, binning their best stuff for server chips. _But _my 11900K wasn't exactly a new batch either. X114M115, so that should be 14th week of 2021?


----------



## tps3443

enthusiastdre said:


> I agree actually. My semi-conspiracy theory is that Intel is sending out their best silicon first for the positive press/word-of-mouth, then afterwards, binning their best stuff for server chips. _But _my 11900K wasn't exactly a new batch either. X114M115, so that should be 14th week of 2021?


Any 11900K is still an amazing CPU regardless of how good the sample is. Even in 2022, I think the 11900K in general is especially better now than at launch. “not the silicon quality though lol”


----------



## GARZAicmg

tps3443 said:


> I would reduce that cache OC drastically. Because your cache is at 4,715Mhz the core voltage needs to be crazy high!
> 
> I have noticed running 43 cache OC is plenty good. And even running 46 or 47 offers a minimal
> improvement.
> 
> You would be able to run your cpu cores 200-300Mhz higher with maybe even the same voltage.
> 
> Just a thought.


i back tracked on it still down at 39.6 ns. FSB at 102.7, so Cores are at 5135, ring 4518, ram 3835. Time spy improved to 19131 as well. Might try going for a higher core and leabing cache where its at


----------



## tps3443

GARZAicmg said:


> i back tracked on it still down at 39.6 ns. FSB at 102.7, so Cores are at 5135, ring 4518, ram 3835. Time spy improved to 19131 as well. Might try going for a higher core and leabing cache where its at


The 11900K’s cache becomes super super hungry for V-Core when you increase it beyond 40-41 on most 11900K’s, so your power usage goes way up, and temps too.

I would maximize your core overclocks with the cache at 40-43. If your CPU is better than most, then you can run a 44-47 cache easily without much more voltage.

What is your Timespy physics score?

Sometimes it will score higher with a lower cache OC, if your system is not perfectly stable. Something to keep in mind.


----------



## tps3443

This is my 3dmark Timespy run from earlier this year. Its kind of hilarious. Because I was running Timespy and getting back in the groove, and I'm like man..... The best score is 22,233, I am so close!!! IVE GOTTA BEAT THIS GUY!!!! Well, long story short I was racing my self..

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-11900K Processor,EVGA Corp. Z590 DARK (3dmark.com)


----------



## enthusiastdre

tps3443 said:


> Any 11900K is still an amazing CPU regardless of how good the sample is. Even in 2022, I think the 11900K in general is especially better now than at launch. “not the silicon quality though lol”


Why would it be better now vs launch? The price is certainly lower now. It’s appropriately priced given how it’s matched or beaten by the 12600K in most games and applications.


----------



## tps3443

enthusiastdre said:


> Why would it be better now vs launch? The price is certainly lower now. It’s appropriately priced given how it’s matched or beaten by the 12600K in most games and applications.


11900K has matured substantially through bios and microcode updates. So it’s performing at its best right now.

Because most people have Z490/Z590 motherboards laying around already, or you can obtain one for super cheap. And then you can just install a 11900K and get top tier performance in games, without upgrading their whole PC.

The 7700K is known as one of the best gaming CPU’s when it was king, but it was literally demolished by just a locked i5 8400. So if a 12600K matches or slightly beats a 11900K it’s really not that big of a deal.

I would probably recommend a 13600K over anything right now though.

Hardware comes and goes. The RTX4090 is displaying Timespy Extreme scores that exactly double that of a RTX3090 that was once considered future proof by people. Buy what you can, and enjoy it to its fullest.

I’ve got a 11900K and I have enjoyed every bit of it. And I will continue to enjoy It until 10/20/2022 when it finally gets replaced with something worthy, a 13900K.


----------



## Arni90

The V136 batch rated SP50/SP45 I have now is better than the launch batch which was SP84/SP78.

Launch batch would boot 3920 gear 1, new chip boots 4050 gear 1

Cinebench R23 runs a solid 50 MHz higher as well.

I suspect SP ratings are broken on later silicon.


----------



## tps3443

Arni90 said:


> The V136 batch rated SP50/SP45 I have now is better than the launch batch which was SP84/SP78.
> 
> Launch batch would boot 3920 gear 1, new chip boots 4050 gear 1
> 
> Cinebench R23 runs a solid 50 MHz higher as well.
> 
> I suspect SP ratings are broken on later silicon.


I just purchased (2) New 11900K’s just a couple weeks ago. They were both not fantastic at all. One did 3733 Gear (1), the other did 3867 Gear (1). Both chips had average 5.2Ghz cores even with 3C water temps 30C-40C load cpu temps. One could kinda sorta do 5.3Ghz through R23.

I’ve tested (4) 11900K’s so far.


----------



## napata

GARZAicmg said:


> How did i do, fellas? Got into OC for gaming, and after ridiculous amounts of bios and restarts, I think i found my SP50 11900k's absolute limit. On a ROG Strix E Z590 (102.5 FSB) @ 100fsb the bios numbers are 5.0 cpu, 4.6 ring 3733 c14-14-14-28. they upscale to 5.125ghz, 4.715 ring and 3827mhz ram speed. This was the only way i could achieve a gear 1 ram freq over 3800. Also for TimeSpy on a 3080ti MSI ventus 3x, GPU @2205 and 945 on mem clock. For gaming i undervolt to 2100 @1.1v and 750 on the memory OC.
> 
> Aida 64 40.4ns
> TimeSpy 19075
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 19 075 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.48v core
> 1.62v DIMM
> 
> and yes even with these voltages, i play Rust and Warzone all day with no temp issues, stock AIO and chassis fans too!
> 
> i want to post the pics but im kind of a dummy with embed stuff lol


Your CPU score seems about 1000 points lower than what I'd expect based on your clocks. As a reference I get a similar score on a 11700k at 4.9, 4.3 ring & 3600 RAM.


----------



## NorySS

Arni90 said:


> The V136 batch rated SP50/SP45 I have now is better than the launch batch which was SP84/SP78.
> 
> Launch batch would boot 3920 gear 1, new chip boots 4050 gear 1
> 
> Cinebench R23 runs a solid 50 MHz higher as well.
> 
> I suspect SP ratings are broken on later silicon.


I just got this guy.

x138

in Bios 1202 it says its sp66
in Bios 1402 it says its sp75

Forgot to add boots 3866 without much fuss.


----------



## enthusiastdre

tps3443 said:


> 11900K has matured substantially through bios and microcode updates. So it’s performing at its best right now.


Ah I see what you meant. I can't speak for the previous LGA1200 BIOS/microcode updates because I haven't followed it very closely. If anything, I'm only accustomed to Intel performance _worsening _over time due to new security mitigation updates, so it's nice to hear that microcode updates have actually improved things this time around.

I tend to purchase hardware near or at the end of its retail life-cycle (this trash-binned 11900K was $270 new + free CoD). I was just surprised to see 11900K silicon that's somehow worse than the 11700K that I purchased earlier this year. After tuning, I've managed to salvage performance to the bare minimum levels for a 11900K:

Manual BIOS voltage at 1.395V (LLC 4) with ABT+TVB
2 cores @ 53x (even a single favored core at 54x is unstable) 
4 cores @ 51x (cores 4-7 are capped to 51x; 0-3 to 50x)
8 cores @ 50x 
Ring/Cache @ 42x

I haven't tested the IMC yet, but so far, this chip has shown zero redeeming qualities. 

One observation: even after setting VCCIO/SA to 1.15V (and capping them to 1.2V), HWInfo has them at 1.25V and 1.296V, respectively. I don't know if that's sensor miscommunication or if the board is simply ignoring my set values because they're too set too low. 

My only other curiosity now is to see if there are any meaningful improvements once I migrate the chip to a Z590 board with slightly better cooling. Not holding my breath though.


----------



## Imprezzion

After a LOT of tweaking and testing different supporting voltages for VCCIO IO2 SA PLL and playing around with the SVID levels and V/F curve offsets I finally got my chip to stop crashing at 52 all core in switching loads / clocks. Before it would hard lock within an hour of playing Division 2 and now it hasn't locked up once after a binge grind of like 6 hours today mixed up with some work in between while leaving the game alt-tabbed which it also absolutely hated.

I don't know what I did to make it actually stable but it is.

So, new results are 53x2 52x8 42 cache AVX0 with AVX512 enabled at around 1.394-1.412v all-core load and 1.483v for 5.3 on the 2 best cores. It gets pretty toasty with core peak temps of 68-72c in gaming and 80c max in Cinebench R23 or Prime95 Small FFT without AVX and 88-92c in X265 encoding with full AVX2 and 512 enabled. It isn't delidded or lapped and just runs Prolimatech PK-3, not liquid metal. The loop i'm using is a EK Velocity block, EK D5 pump at 100%, Nemesis GTX420 + 240 rads in push pull at very low fanspeeds, and my 3080 is included in the loop with a Bykski block and runs at 95-102% power with 1965Mhz @ 0.925 undervolted curve.

I could obviously ramp up the fanspeeds on the radiators as they barely hit 40% PWM under load but water temps are staying very low and the GPU is barely hitting 48c after 6 hours so it wouldn't really do anything for CPU temps. It just cannot dissipate the heat into the block any faster then it already is unless I direct die it.

RAM is 2x16GB DR Trident-Z Neo B-Die at Gear 1 3733 14-15-15-33-280-2T with very tight secondary and tertiary timings at 1.55v.


----------



## NorySS

11900K SP78
OC to 5.3Ghz Core / 4.5Ghz Ring
Maximus XIII Extreme
4x16 Gskill 3200c14 sticks
MemOC to 3733c15


----------



## Imprezzion

NorySS said:


> 11900K SP78
> OC to 5.3Ghz Core / 4.5Ghz Ring
> Maximus XIII Extreme
> 4x16 Gskill 3200c14 sticks
> MemOC to 3733c15
> 
> View attachment 2574243


That's a really high tRDRD_dr/dd. Drop it to like 5 or 6 and it should slightly improve bandwidths.


----------



## NorySS

Imprezzion said:


> That's a really high tRDRD_dr/dd. Drop it to like 5 or 6 and it should slightly improve bandwidths.


no go... this is 4x16, not 2x16.


----------



## Imprezzion

NorySS said:


> no go... this is 4x16, not 2x16.


Really? I didn't know running 4x16 had that much impact on tRDRD. Oh well, anyway it's a great result!

I do seem to have broken something in my BIOS. If i set the CPU OC back to Auto ratio and per core all to Auto the CPU thinks it's funny to boost to 5.3 all core... I wanted to go back to Auto everything with IABT enabled cause 5.2 is nice and all but it's very hot and consumes an ungodly amount of power versus just running IABT 5.1 but it doesn't seem to wanna take the stock Auto settings anymore..

Oh well I just manually set it to 53x2 51x8 with the correct cores in per core ratio set for 5.3 and it works fine but it's still weird.. 

Also, why is it that with Auto cache min max it randomly decides to go to 4300 cache and other times it is 4100.. there's no logic as to when it decides to do 4300 or 4100. That is a problem because on 51 all core the vcore is too low to properly run 4300..


----------



## NorySS

Imprezzion said:


> Really? I didn't know running 4x16 had that much impact on tRDRD. Oh well, anyway it's a great result!
> 
> I do seem to have broken something in my BIOS. If i set the CPU OC back to Auto ratio and per core all to Auto the CPU thinks it's funny to boost to 5.3 all core... I wanted to go back to Auto everything with IABT enabled cause 5.2 is nice and all but it's very hot and consumes an ungodly amount of power versus just running IABT 5.1 but it doesn't seem to wanna take the stock Auto settings anymore..
> 
> Oh well I just manually set it to 53x2 51x8 with the correct cores in per core ratio set for 5.3 and it works fine but it's still weird..
> 
> Also, why is it that with Auto cache min max it randomly decides to go to 4300 cache and other times it is 4100.. there's no logic as to when it decides to do 4300 or 4100. That is a problem because on 51 all core the vcore is too low to properly run 4300..


I’ll tell you the most Asus thing I discovered about this bios and mobo. So im finishing up my ddr4 4x16 overclock on woketwake-es.
my ocd kicks in and i decide to manually enter the AUTO timings values.
So for example. *tWRWR_dr* on _"auto"_ would equal 7 in windows. If i didn't have success lowering it, I would set it manually to 7 in the bios. So not AUTO but 7.

so there were a few tertiary timings that wouldn't budge. and the auto settings weren't LOOSEY goosey.
I set them manually to their auto equivalent setting,

One final TM5 test, And I would get instant errors and blue screens. 
looked back thru my saved profiles, screen shots, notes etc. and the only thing that i changed were those values from AUTO to manual. 
Switched it back to Auto, no issues, passes tM5 extreme and Linpack 32GB
f'ing asus


----------



## Delpize

Hey everyone, i need your opinion on one thing,

I have z599 apex 3733 13-14 ram 11900k and rtx 2080ti. But sadly i can not keep 240 fps all the time(even tho others can keep with 3080ti and 5950x someshit). And when i check the usages, my gpu at %90ish 95ish utilization and cpu is %30~40.
My budget is around 1500$. Which move is the wiser?
Replacing my mobo and cpu to z790 and 13900k or replacing gpu with 4090?

playing at 1080P


----------



## Imprezzion

Delpize said:


> Hey everyone, i need your opinion on one thing,
> 
> I have z599 apex 3733 13-14 ram 11900k and rtx 2080ti. But sadly i can not keep 240 fps all the time(even tho others can keep with 3080ti and 5950x someshit). And when i check the usages, my gpu at %90ish 95ish utilization and cpu is %30~40.
> My budget is around 1500$. Which move is the wiser?
> Replacing my mobo and cpu to z790 and 13900k or replacing gpu with 4090?
> 
> playing at 1080P


Depends on the game. What games and what graphics settings do you intend to run at 240 stable? I can tell you right now even on 1080P with a 3080 I can't keep anywhere near 240 FPS in games like Division 2, BF 2042, Metro Enhanced, Cyberpunk or Horizon Zero Dawn or whatever but for Valorant, CSGO, Warzone (on low) or BF 2042 (on low) I can easily maintain that. I also use a 1080p 240hz panel so.


----------



## Delpize

Imprezzion said:


> Depends on the game. What games and what graphics settings do you intend to run at 240 stable? I can tell you right now even on 1080P with a 3080 I can't keep anywhere near 240 FPS in games like Division 2, BF 2042, Metro Enhanced, Cyberpunk or Horizon Zero Dawn or whatever but for Valorant, CSGO, Warzone (on low) or BF 2042 (on low) I can easily maintain that. I also use a 1080p 240hz panel so.


Forgot to mention i most likelty play apex.


----------



## D-EJ915

I would probably upgrade the GPU first but whether going for 4090 at 1080p is worthwhile I'm not too sure since NV only talked about 4k performance we'll have to see how it shows in reviews. For the price of 4090 you could probably get a cheaper GPU model then get a CPU/Mobo upgrade too.


----------



## Imprezzion

A 2080 Ti in Gamers Nexus benchmarks got about 161FPS on 1080p high with a 8086K at 5Ghz back in '19. Optimization and a better CPU might make that 170 now. So, a 3090 would probably get you pretty close to 240 average if percentage scaling applies to Apex.

On another note, I still kept having crashes and freezes in changing loads / frequencies at 5.2 all core so I decided to keep testing stuff and saw that on Auto vCore, LLC (Auto = 4) and AC DC with just adjusting V/F Curve the voltage was kinda all over the place. Cinebench R23 for example would run 1.376v load, TestMem5 would run 1.488v, games would be anywhere from 1.396 to 1.464v jumping around wildly.

I decided to test some more manual values for LLC and such and now settled on SVID Best Case Scenario (AC/DC 0.01), LLC 7 (yes it's high I know) and V/F Curve -0.050 at #6 51 and -0.200 at #7 52 point. This is needed because the SP50 chip has 1.603v VID's at 52 and 1.700v at 53. With just running a sync all core 52 OC now with Auto cache (4100) it has a load vCore of 1.388v in Cinebench R23, 1.396v in TestMem5 (gone is the massive overvolt in this specific load) and the game voltages are super stable at 1.404-1.412v and don't jump around wildly anymore. Funny thing is, the loading screen / changing load crashes are completely gone. It's perfectly stable now.

So yeah, this chip hates low LLC values and really wants a steady vCore with high LLC 7. Temps are still fine, hottest core was 72c in gaming and 79c in Cinebench R23. I still obviously can't run Prime95 with AVX2/512 enabled even tho it tries to. It runs around 95-98c and technically doesn't throttle but it's too hot. Plus side is, even at those temperatures, no cores actually drop out with a rounding error anymore. After seeing those temperatures in AVX2/512 I have set up a custom temp limit of 92c cores / 92c package and it correctly throttles to 5.1 @ 1.272v or even 5.0 at 1.224v which also does not drop cores which it did do on LLC4. I can run a AVX512/2 X265 encoding benchmark fine around 1.388v load without it throttling. It gets up to about 86-88c but doesn't hit the throttling points in 30 minutes and does not drop clocks.

Power wise it runs around 140-170w in games, 265-280w in Cinebench and 325-335w in X265 AVX512.

I even managed to get it to complete 30 minutes of Cinebench R23 at 5.3 all core which it has never done before however it did require ~1.510v to do so and did hit 90c throttling a few times so that is still not runnable 24/7.

Next up, raising cache clocks 1 multiplier at a time and see what the cache can do at this higher LLC.

Oh, I still have all power savings left enabled and it runs nicely at 800Mhz with core parking at 0.76v and like 12w idle.


----------



## Delpize

Imprezzion said:


> A 2080 Ti in Gamers Nexus benchmarks got about 161FPS on 1080p high with a 8086K at 5Ghz back in '19. Optimization and a better CPU might make that 170 now. So, a 3090 would probably get you pretty close to 240 average if percentage scaling applies to Apex.
> 
> On another note, I still kept having crashes and freezes in changing loads / frequencies at 5.2 all core so I decided to keep testing stuff and saw that on Auto vCore, LLC (Auto = 4) and AC DC with just adjusting V/F Curve the voltage was kinda all over the place. Cinebench R23 for example would run 1.376v load, TestMem5 would run 1.488v, games would be anywhere from 1.396 to 1.464v jumping around wildly.
> 
> I decided to test some more manual values for LLC and such and now settled on SVID Best Case Scenario (AC/DC 0.01), LLC 7 (yes it's high I know) and V/F Curve -0.050 at #6 51 and -0.200 at #7 52 point. This is needed because the SP50 chip has 1.603v VID's at 52 and 1.700v at 53. With just running a sync all core 52 OC now with Auto cache (4100) it has a load vCore of 1.388v in Cinebench R23, 1.396v in TestMem5 (gone is the massive overvolt in this specific load) and the game voltages are super stable at 1.404-1.412v and don't jump around wildly anymore. Funny thing is, the loading screen / changing load crashes are completely gone. It's perfectly stable now.
> 
> So yeah, this chip hates low LLC values and really wants a steady vCore with high LLC 7. Temps are still fine, hottest core was 72c in gaming and 79c in Cinebench R23. I still obviously can't run Prime95 with AVX2/512 enabled even tho it tries to. It runs around 95-98c and technically doesn't throttle but it's too hot. Plus side is, even at those temperatures, no cores actually drop out with a rounding error anymore. After seeing those temperatures in AVX2/512 I have set up a custom temp limit of 92c cores / 92c package and it correctly throttles to 5.1 @ 1.272v or even 5.0 at 1.224v which also does not drop cores which it did do on LLC4. I can run a AVX512/2 X265 encoding benchmark fine around 1.388v load without it throttling. It gets up to about 86-88c but doesn't hit the throttling points in 30 minutes and does not drop clocks.
> 
> Power wise it runs around 140-170w in games, 265-280w in Cinebench and 325-335w in X265 AVX512.
> 
> I even managed to get it to complete 30 minutes of Cinebench R23 at 5.3 all core which it has never done before however it did require ~1.510v to do so and did hit 90c throttling a few times so that is still not runnable 24/7.
> 
> Next up, raising cache clocks 1 multiplier at a time and see what the cache can do at this higher LLC.
> 
> Oh, I still have all power savings left enabled and it runs nicely at 800Mhz with core parking at 0.76v and like 12w idle.


So, you are also suggesting me to change my 2080 ti instead of changing 11900k. I know that 4090 will be really overkill for 1080p but wouldnt it be also for future maybe if i switch to 1440p later?


----------



## tps3443

Delpize said:


> So, you are also suggesting me to change my 2080 ti instead of changing 11900k. I know that 4090 will be really overkill for 1080p but wouldnt it be also for future maybe if i switch to 1440p later?


Absolutely. For gaming the 11900K does very well, it’s gonna do about as good as anything available for the most part (Give or take small percentages between the 11900K and even the most powerful CPU’s). Also, you‘re GPU limited right now.. You also need to go through your memory timings and bios settings if you are after some kind of fps goal. Unless you’ve already done that. Properly setup bios and memory timing settings is only gonna give you more cpu power, and more IPC.

13900K isn’t gonna do anything for a 2080Ti.


----------



## Imprezzion

K so, 5.2 all core is still fine at ~1.376-1.388v with LLC7 but the cache didn't improve at all. 42 runs, 43 either hard freezes or just reboots the PC randomly. 

Would it make any sense to set 53x2 52x8 again or just keep sync all 52..


----------



## Delpize

tps3443 said:


> Absolutely. For gaming the 11900K does very well, it’s gonna do about as good as anything available for the most part (Give or take small percentages between the 11900K and even the most powerful CPU’s). Also, you‘re GPU limited right now.. You also need to go through your memory timings and bios settings if you are after some kind of fps goal. Unless you’ve already done that. Properly setup bios and memory timing settings is only gonna give you more cpu power, and more IPC.
> 
> 13900K isn’t gonna do anything for a 2080Ti.


Thank you so much sir


----------



## YoungChris

Bimppy said:


> I can do up to Gear 1 4000mhz, but thats even close to stable for daily and for 3733mhz and 3866mhz the latency is higher than my 3600mhz with slightly higher bandwidth


Can you show some screens?


----------



## freddy85

Asus is so bad at keeping their drivers up to date, it's not like this is a very old plattform.


----------



## Bimppy

YoungChris said:


> Can you show some screens?


I can do AIDA64 in the morning, but I just realised I didn’t put “not even” in that as 4000mhz, 3866mhz, and 3733mhz with none stable at reasonable voltages plus I have to drop the tight subs. I’m guessing that contributes to my 3600mhz CL12-14-14-14-220 + subs being better than the others


----------



## YoungChris

@cstkl1 Was there ever a bios released for the XII Apex that allowed tRAS <28 with RKL? I know all the Z590 2-dimmers were given support.


----------



## cstkl1

YoungChris said:


> @cstkl1 Was there ever a bios released for the XII Apex that allowed tRAS <28 with RKL? I know all the Z590 2-dimmers were given support.


i dont know. cant remember.


----------



## yenic

I have an 11900K that I bought on launch with an Asus Z590-i on a Corsair SF600 with an old 1060FE holding me out till these next-gen cards drop. I ran ABT+MCE all this time with no issues, Prime95 overnight, memtest86 overnight, no issues in CBR20. I ran CBR23 and it was locking up. No hand overclocks here, just relying on whatever Asus gives me (latest bios 1402). GSkill Samsung b-die (3200 14-14-14-34 memory in XMPII).

I resolved the locks in CBR23 by enabling ABT and disabling MCE. Here were some test runs. LoL = League of Legends, I play that a lot and wanted to check boost clocks at each setting.
Max wattage were blips that I never caught with my own eye, the averages were from steady-state. All hwinfo64 7.30-4870.

ABT on MCE auto
CBR23 207W avg 293W max, 4.85 allcore, 14860pts - locked up after 5 runs
LoL 100W, 5.1 allcore

ABT on MCE on 
CBR23 207W avg, 253W max, 4.8 allcore, 14869pts - locks up on 2nd run
LoL 100W, 5.1 allcore

ABT auto MCE auto 
CBR23 179W avg 185W max, 4.7 allcore, 14584pts
LoL 65W, 4.8 allcore

ABT off MCE on
CBR23 176W avg 187W max, 4.7 allcore, 14580pts
LoL 63W, 4.8 allcore

ABT on MCE off
CBR23 126W avg 244W max, 4.3 allcore, 13292pts
LoL 100W, 5.1 allcore

While I'm stable with ABT on and MCE off, reviews were getting 16K scores with ABT. Intel Core i9-11900K Review - World's Fastest Gaming Processor? - Rendering | TechPowerUp 

I disabled dual tau restrictions didn't seem to do much with Intel's power limits in effect, I'm still around 13326. My batch is X104L512 Vietnam.

Do I just have a bad chip or PSU? Or am I missing a critical BIOS setting? I'm a long ways off of 16,188 even with ABT+MCE.


----------



## GARZAicmg

Imprezzion said:


> K so, 5.2 all core is still fine at ~1.376-1.388v with LLC7 but the cache didn't improve at all. 42 runs, 43 either hard freezes or just reboots the PC randomly.
> 
> Would it make any sense to set 53x2 52x8 again or just keep sync all 52..


you're gonna need over 1.4v to get the cache up, also for gaming, all core's synced tend to work better


----------



## munk33

picked up an 11900K + MSI Unify-X Z590 combo from bhphoto for $360 in the recent intel gamer days COD MW2 sale. gotta say it's a killer value!

specs/results:

11900K @ 5.4GHz all core, HT OFF (this is key), 4.5GHz ring ratio​VCORE 1.45v​crucial ballistix max 2*16GB @ 3866MHz 13-17-17-34, gear 1​RKL IO 1.44v​SA 1.48v​arctic freezer ii 240mm AIO​3080 ti​​GB5 single: ~2,000​AIDA read: ~61K​AIDA latency: ~40ns​CSGO bench: ~710 FPS​PUBG 1080P ultra 120% render: 260 FPS avg, 180 FPS 1% lows​​stability: rock solid in PUBG and starcraft II – probably not prime95 stable but that's not my goal.​
overall couldn't be happier -- with an OC like this plus 8 cores i'm guessing it easily outperforms a 12600K (and even stock 12700K) in most scenarios. runs in the low 60's while gaming and maintains very strong 1% lows (an underrated aspect of RKL). guessing i got slightly lucky with an above average chip, but i think the 11900K now represents an outstanding value if you can get it on sale. cheers to all my RKL fam!


----------



## yenic

munk33 said:


> stability: rock solid in PUBG and starcraft II – probably not prime95 stable but that's not my goal.
> overall couldn't be happier


Gratz on the build, sounds good. You should try CBR23's 30 minute stress test. I'm curious if you're stable in that. I'm currently bummed out by my CBR23 score.









I did just run GB5 to compare with your config. This was not ideal, I use the balanced power plan, with applications open for my workday, and right now I'm using ABT with MCE off (Intel power limits). 1815 single- ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser I've got 1853 and I'm pretty sure I was running ABT+MCE at that time so I'm happy with my current result. My system is all-night Prime95 torture test stable and all-night Memtest86 torture test stable. And now with MCE off, I'm CBR23 30-min Test Stability stable. 

I was able to stabilize CBR23 30-min with MCE+ABT, but I had to disable C-states. Not interested in that for daily use, as I already have my fans tuned just as I want them for how it acts with C-states enabled.


----------



## Imprezzion

I did some further testing with LLC7 on the ol' Maxi Hero and it's a real shame my chip has 2 very poor cores.. it could've been great lol.

SVID Best Case Scenario, LLC7, V/F curve -0.125 at 5.1, -0.220 5.2, -0.220 5.3. RAM 3733 14-15-15-33-256-2T Gear 1, 60 min CB R23 tested.

5.0 all core 4.0 cache at 1.19v, 5.1 with 4.1 cache 1.243v, 5.2 with 42 cache 1.364v. It will run Prime95 Small FFT AVX2/512 enabled just fine and stable up to 5.1 all core but gets pretty hot. Around 88-92c at ~304w power draw but it does not throttle and no rounding errors. 5.2 can't do it. The 2 weaker cores will drop with rounding errors in AVX.

5.1 is by far the most efficient power and voltage wise. Pulls around 16300 points. Temps are mid 60's at 5.1. Not delidded, not lapped just using PK3. Still likes to draw a lot of power, well over 240w in R23 and ~140w while gaming but gaming temps are mid 50's and it performs great with the 3080.

I have it set to this now with per core OC enabled using 53x2 51x8. It boosts the 2 best cores to 53 nicely around 1.360v which they can handle fine.

C-States enabled, all power saving and downclocking enabled, Process Lasso Pro to set power saver profile when not gaming and balanced while gaming. It is seriously efficient like this. Obviously it won't beat a 5800X3D in efficiency but it destroys a 12900K / 7900X in perf per watt.

Next upgrade will be a proper 1TB M.2 4.0 boot drive, Corsair MP600 Pro or 980 Pro or something, and swapping the 3080 for a used 3090 or Ti now that 4090 is out and the prices of used 3090's will hopefully tank. I will need a Gigabyte Gaming OC / Vision / Eagle model to be able to keep my block but I'm sure I can find one.


----------



## Solohuman

munk33 said:


> picked up an 11900K + MSI Unify-X Z590 combo from bhphoto for $360 in the recent intel gamer days COD MW2 sale. gotta say it's a killer value!
> 
> specs/results:
> 
> 11900K @ 5.4GHz all core, HT OFF (this is key), 4.5GHz ring ratio​VCORE 1.45v​crucial ballistix max 2*16GB @ 3866MHz 13-17-17-34, gear 1​RKL IO 1.44v​SA 1.48v​arctic freezer ii 240mm AIO​3080 ti​​GB5 single: ~2,000​AIDA read: ~61K​AIDA latency: ~40ns​CSGO bench: ~710 FPS​PUBG 1080P ultra 120% render: 260 FPS avg, 180 FPS 1% lows​​stability: rock solid in PUBG and starcraft II – probably not prime95 stable but that's not my goal.​
> overall couldn't be happier -- with an OC like this plus 8 cores i'm guessing it easily outperforms a 12600K (and even stock 12700K) in most scenarios. runs in the low 60's while gaming and maintains very strong 1% lows (an underrated aspect of RKL). guessing i got slightly lucky with an above average chip, but i think the 11900K now represents an outstanding value if you can get it on sale. cheers to all my RKL fam!


Is this stable with CPU-Z stress test for 10+ mins? That's a minimum I would do for gaming stability test.


----------



## tps3443

I’m pulling my beloved AKA “Super Silicon” 11900K and Z590 Dark and 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum B-Die out of my test bench today.

It has been nested comfortably for over a year at 5.5Ghz all cores/ 4000 Gear (1) CL14/ and x46 cache ring.

This setup allowed me to skip 12th Gen entirely. As a gaming beast! And it’s gonna become my designated work PC.

No degradation here. Keep your parts cool, and they’ll last forever.

I’ll be moving this setup in to a normal case, with an AIO cooler, I will be dropping the overclock to 5.4Ghz all cores with 45 cache OC @1.385V.


----------



## YoungChris

tps3443 said:


> I’m pulling my beloved AKA “Super Silicon” 11900K and Z590 Dark and 2x16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum B-Die out of my test bench today.
> 
> It has been nested comfortably for over a year at 5.5Ghz all cores/ 4000 Gear (1) CL14/ and x46 cache ring.
> 
> This setup allowed me to skip 12th Gen entirely. As a gaming beast! And it’s gonna become my designated work PC.
> 
> No degradation here. Keep your parts cool, and they’ll last forever.
> 
> I’ll be moving this setup in to a normal case, with an AIO cooler, I will be dropping the overclock to 5.4Ghz all cores with 45 cache OC @1.385V.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2577462


Can it still do 4k Gear 1 with an AIO?


----------



## tps3443

YoungChris said:


> Can it still do 4k Gear 1 with an AIO?


Absolutely it will! This 11900K goes beyond 4K (G1) consumes very little power, and needs very little voltage to hit that 5.4Ghz. So, it’s going to still run very cool even with an AIO and in a case.

While the cooling helped, this chip ran 5.4 AVX 2 stable before delid and before chiller. Those items only aided in achieving 5.5Ghz stability. Which in reality, the delid alone did that.


----------



## Solohuman

Latest bios update for my Z590 Unify has now enabled with my 11700k to boot in gear 1 @ 3600Mhz with 32GB kit for the first time ever since owning this board for about a year now. All the other bios releases to date had big issues with this & it could never happen. All along I thought my 11700k was very average to boot at 3466MHz max.
Now the problem is stabilizing the memory for pre windows testing with MT86. I have run up to 1.47v for both SA & VCCIO2 but errors in test 4. This ram can do XMP of 4600MHz so I know its not the ram. With voltages like that for IMC & SA, then I'd be better off running gear 2 with XMP of 4600MHz because I know the system then with the older bioses could run 1.35 for SA & 1.49 for the IMC.
Not sure what I'm doing wrong here, but at least with the latest bios, its able to overcome the obstacle of booting in gear 1 with my particular 11700k!


----------



## munk33

Solohuman said:


> Is this stable with CPU-Z stress test for 10+ mins? That's a minimum I would do for gaming stability test.


Sorry for the delay; yes this is stable for 10+ minutes in the CPU-Z stress test.

Disabling HT helped a lot with hitting 5.4; with HT enabled it would only be stable at 5.2 or 5.3.


----------



## tps3443

This is my old cpu/motherboard setup that I’m using as a backup PC.

Look how easily this 11900K runs 5.3 on just a crappy $50 dollar 240 AIO. Such a crazy good 11900K I’ve had this chip for a while now, been running it daily at 5.5Ghz all cores for over a year, until I got my Pre-order 13900KF. No degradation at all. I’m gonna use this as my work PC.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

That is incredible. I can run 5.2 on myn (sp50). My cpu has a very good mem controler and can run the ring at 4.8ghz all day. But takes 1.5v. 

Wondering what your sp is and do you have it delided? Also looks like my r23 score is right on par to yours, so that makes me feel alittle better about my cores being crap.


----------



## tps3443

Taint3dBulge said:


> That is incredible. I can run 5.2 on myn (sp50). My cpu has a very good mem controler and can run the ring at 4.8ghz all day. But takes 1.5v.
> 
> Wondering what your sp is and do you have it delided? Also looks like my r23 score is right on par to yours, so that makes me feel alittle better about my cores being crap.


Honestly, delidding is not going to help you. This 11900K could Prime 95 stabilize 5.4 all cores long before delidding it, and run 5.5 through R23. Delidding this 11900K only made 5.5GHz all cores easier.

Also, don’t mind the R23 score thats just the OS holding it back due to being some old random windows install with stuff running. This chip already breaks 18K

I pulled the cpu and motherboard and memory from my primary test bench which had far better cooling, and I just put it in a case is all.

I have tested at least (4) 11900K’s and the thing is, they have cores that physically will not and cannot run past 5.2 stable. No matter if they run even just 40C under load. so delidding 11900K’s physically won’t let this run 5.3 regardless how cool it runs.

My main test bench has a huge More3 style radiator and a 1/2HP water chiller Lol. It’s the cpu quality that allows such overclocks not the cooling.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

tps3443 said:


> Honestly, delidding is not going to help you. This 11900K could Prime 95 stabilize 5.4 all cores long before delidding it, and run 5.5 through R23. Delidding this 11900K only made 5.5GHz all cores easier.
> 
> Also, don’t mind the R23 score thats just the OS holding it back due to being some old random windows install with stuff running. This chip already breaks 18K
> 
> I pulled the cpu and motherboard and memory from my primary test bench which had far better cooling, and I just put it in a case is all.
> 
> I have tested at least (4) 11900K’s and the thing is, they have cores that physically will not and cannot run past 5.2 stable. No matter if they run even just 40C under load. so delidding 11900K’s physically won’t let this run 5.3 regardless how cool it runs.
> 
> My main test bench has a huge More3 style radiator and a 1/2HP water chiller Lol. It’s the cpu quality that allows such overclocks not the cooling.


Oh I totally get that with delidding it. I was just wondering if you did and if thats why it was running so cool. My system is totally fine for what I do and am really happy with it no plans for delidding. I came from a delidded 9900k that was pretty good (5.1 all core) but the imc was crap. Pretty much the only reason I got this cpu, was for the memory overclocking and well alittle better ipc. Im waiting to see what amd can do when they release the cpu's with 3dvcache. If they dont release a 7900x at the very least with it, i might go with a 13900k or see what the timeline is for the 14900k is. I kinda have a feeling they will release that mid to late next year, since the 13 series was supposed to get the new meteor/arrow lake cores. But they skipped it for whatever reason and did raptor lake. Unless im wrong on that, but im pretty sure thats what took place. Anyways thats kinda what i think i may do, since i havnt had the 11 series for more then a year yet, just hold on to it for a 14gen. Unless i see a very good deal on a used golden 13gen.


----------



## tps3443

Taint3dBulge said:


> Oh I totally get that with delidding it. I was just wondering if you did and if thats why it was running so cool. My system is totally fine for what I do and am really happy with it no plans for delidding. I came from a delidded 9900k that was pretty good (5.1 all core) but the imc was crap. Pretty much the only reason I got this cpu, was for the memory overclocking and well alittle better ipc. Im waiting to see what amd can do when they release the cpu's with 3dvcache. If they dont release a 7900x at the very least with it, i might go with a 13900k or see what the timeline is for the 14900k is. I kinda have a feeling they will release that mid to late next year, since the 13 series was supposed to get the new meteor/arrow lake cores. But they skipped it for whatever reason and did raptor lake. Unless im wrong on that, but im pretty sure thats what took place. Anyways thats kinda what i think i may do, since i havnt had the 11 series for more then a year yet, just hold on to it for a 14gen. Unless i see a very good deal on a used golden 13gen.


Intel 11th gen is a excellent CPU. They need a little tuning out of the box for peak potential, but once setup they absolutely crush it in gaming my own 11900K when setup on my main test bench was scoring 25% higher in Cinebench than the PC Gamer review numbers they published during the launch review. Honestly, I have a 13900KF as well and it’s a great cpu but It’s kinda hard to believe I paid almost the same for both chips.

I’ll say this though, no sense in waiting for anything. waiting does nothing something newer comes out in a year anyways. The 13900K is a monster for the money. I was scoring [email protected] watts with my chip in R23, or [email protected] watts. That’s absolutely insane.. More efficient than Ryzen 7000 series and faster. Always something new coming out either way.


----------



## Volumetrik

I've been following this thread for a while now, trying to tune my 11900k with DR B-die on my MSI Z490 ACE. My 11900k can't go over 3600Mhz in Gear 1 no matter what I try. Won't boot even 3700Mhz.

Will go up to 4200Cl17 in Gear2, however. So I decided tuning the timings down, but even there can't get under 48ms.

Settings are:
VSA : 1.35v
RKL IO : 1.35v
DRAM : 1.5v

Here are some screenshots.

















Any tips on breaking this plateau, or I'm just stuck with a bad IMC?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

tps3443 said:


> Intel 11th gen is a excellent CPU. They need a little tuning out of the box for peak potential, but once setup they absolutely crush it in gaming my own 11900K when setup on my main test bench was scoring 25% higher in Cinebench than the PC Gamer review numbers they published during the launch review. Honestly, I have a 13900KF as well and it’s a great cpu but It’s kinda hard to believe I paid almost the same for both chips.
> 
> I’ll say this though, no sense in waiting for anything. waiting does nothing something newer comes out in a year anyways. The 13900K is a monster for the money. I was scoring [email protected] watts with my chip in R23, or [email protected] watts. That’s absolutely insane.. More efficient than Ryzen 7000 series and faster. Always something new coming out either way.


Ya, Im more looking at replacing my 3080ti first. Since none of my games are cpu bound. Am waiting for the 7900xtx to launch, i dont feel like supporting nvidia anymore.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Volumetrik said:


> I've been following this thread for a while now, trying to tune my 11900k with DR B-die on my MSI Z490 ACE. My 11900k can't go over 3600Mhz in Gear 1 no matter what I try. Won't boot even 3700Mhz.
> 
> Will go up to 4200Cl17 in Gear2, however. So I decided tuning the timings down, but even there can't get under 48ms.
> 
> Settings are:
> VSA : 1.35v
> RKL IO : 1.35v
> DRAM : 1.5v
> 
> Here are some screenshots.
> 
> View attachment 2583581
> View attachment 2583582
> 
> 
> Any tips on breaking this plateau, or I'm just stuck with a bad IMC?


You can prob do it, you just need more voltage.










To get to 38ms it took this much voltage. The ram will get toasty, I got a fan on myn.
Dram v - 1.560
Vccio v - 1.425
Vccsa v - 1.475


----------



## tps3443

Volumetrik said:


> I've been following this thread for a while now, trying to tune my 11900k with DR B-die on my MSI Z490 ACE. My 11900k can't go over 3600Mhz in Gear 1 no matter what I try. Won't boot even 3700Mhz.
> 
> Will go up to 4200Cl17 in Gear2, however. So I decided tuning the timings down, but even there can't get under 48ms.
> 
> Settings are:
> VSA : 1.35v
> RKL IO : 1.35v
> DRAM : 1.5v
> 
> Here are some screenshots.
> 
> View attachment 2583581
> View attachment 2583582
> 
> 
> Any tips on breaking this plateau, or I'm just stuck with a bad IMC?


Set VSA to 1.5V set IO or MEM AUX to 1.5V and please set your tREFI to 65,000 ASAP, also 1.600V to your DDR4 is perfectly fine for daily. A lot of performance left on the table with that tREFI at only 14,000. Max that out as high as it can go

I have a really good IMC so my 11900K so it can go as high as like 4160Mhz Gear (1) with 2x16GB. However, every 11900K I’ve tested could do 3733Mhz at the lowest which is considered a DUD really, while most 11900K’s can actually do 3,867Mhz. You wont get much done with only 1.35V SA/IO though. Bump it to 1.500V.


----------



## tps3443

@Taint3dBulge

Your CPU temps look hot, just by the fact that you are putting minimal load on the chip and it’s idling along at those temps. I suspect an R15 or R23 would overwhelm that chip easily. Maybe I’m wrong though 🧐. Have you considered lowering your cache down to x43 or maybe x44 or even x45 maybe? The voltage demand for running a x47 cache is silly and while fun for benching not worth it for daily. Your juicing your chip like crazy, where if you dropped it down to x45 you could probably run just 1.395V or maybe 1.415V.

My 11900K can run some incredibly low voltages but the cache is always a trade off. I can break 18K in R23 with this chip which is incredible for such a CPU.

I can run 5.3Ghz all cores with a 45 cache with only 1.325V and it’s Prime 95 stable. But, if I want to run 5.3Ghz with x47 cache this is gonna take 1.395V. Well, that’s stupid because I can run 5.4Ghz all cores an x45 cache with 1.385V Prime 95 stable. So, it’s always a trade off.

I mean, it’s just a thought and the difference between 45 and 47 is minimal. Especially when your able to extract another 100Mhz out of the CPU.

Set your CPU to default and slowly increase the cache while your voltage is set to auto and watch where the VID’s jump at in HWInfo. You’ll be able to see that breaking point where it’s simply not worth it anymore.


----------



## Taint3dBulge

tps3443 said:


> @Taint3dBulge
> 
> Your CPU temps look hot, just by the fact that you are putting minimal load on the chip and it’s idling along at those temps. I suspect an R15 or R23 would overwhelm that chip easily. Maybe I’m wrong though 🧐. Have you considered lowering your cache down to x43 or maybe x44 or even x45 maybe? The voltage demand for running a x47 cache is silly and while fun for benching not worth it for daily. Your juicing your chip like crazy, where if you dropped it down to x45 you could probably run just 1.395V or maybe 1.415V.
> 
> My 11900K can run some incredibly low voltages but the cache is always a trade off. I can break 18K in R23 with this chip which is incredible for such a CPU.
> 
> I can run 5.3Ghz all cores with a 45 cache with only 1.325V and it’s Prime 95 stable. But, if I want to run 5.3Ghz with x47 cache this is gonna take 1.395V. Well, that’s stupid because I can run 5.4Ghz all cores an x45 cache with 1.385V Prime 95 stable. So, it’s always a trade off.
> 
> I mean, it’s just a thought and the difference between 45 and 47 is minimal. Especially when your able to extract another 100Mhz out of the CPU.
> 
> Set your CPU to default and slowly increase the cache while your voltage is set to auto and watch where the VID’s jump at in HWInfo. You’ll be able to see that breaking point where it’s simply not worth it anymore.


Oh i know, not my first rodeo, I only have it set like that for running benches. It only gets in the mid to high 80s while doing R23. I have my watercooling and fans set up for anything under 60c pump runs at 50%, and fans run at 7%, so it could run alot colder when i ramp those up. For gaming im running 5.1 and 4.6. at idle cores are low 40s depending on what core you look at. I can run 48x cache but thats when my temps get around 95, I also dont see any difference in r23 its about the same score. Anyways, Im not scared if the chip degrades over time. Its just gotta last me another 6months maybe less maybe more. Then i will just put it in my wifes pc and have it set to 5gigs and prob 4.4 cache and just run gear 2 at 4200 on the mem. Just for stability and she just has a noctua nhd15, so that should be able to handle that just fine.

This is after ~4 hours playn bf2042 and the water is good and saturated, I let it sit at idle for about 10 min. also I live in Arizona so my ambient room temps are always 72-78 which also plays a part i guess..










Also everyone should be using this fan adjustment tool


















GitHub - Rem0o/FanControl.Releases: This is the release repository for Fan Control, a highly customizable fan controlling software for Windows.


This is the release repository for Fan Control, a highly customizable fan controlling software for Windows. - GitHub - Rem0o/FanControl.Releases: This is the release repository for Fan Control, a h...




github.com


----------



## Taint3dBulge

tps3443 said:


> Set VSA to 1.5V set IO or MEM AUX to 1.5V and please set your tREFI to 65,000 ASAP, also 1.600V to your DDR4 is perfectly fine for daily. A lot of performance left on the table with that tREFI at only 14,000. Max that out as high as it can go
> 
> I have a really good IMC so my 11900K so it can go as high as like 4160Mhz Gear (1) with 2x16GB. However, every 11900K I’ve tested could do 3733Mhz at the lowest which is considered a DUD really, while most 11900K’s can actually do 3,867Mhz. You wont get much done with only 1.35V SA/IO though. Bump it to 1.500V.



ah good to know that vsa is ok at 1.5. When i first started people were saying not to go over 1.4 lol. Maybe i can get this to 4000 gear1 then. I only had the patience of messing with it for around a week and having mem testers running all day long seeing whats stable. Guess i'll have another go at it. Thanks.


----------



## Volumetrik

Taint3dBulge said:


> You can prob do it, you just need more voltage.
> 
> View attachment 2583958
> 
> 
> To get to 38ms it took this much voltage. The ram will get toasty, I got a fan on myn.
> Dram v - 1.560
> Vccio v - 1.425
> Vccsa v - 1.475
> 
> View attachment 2583957





tps3443 said:


> Set VSA to 1.5V set IO or MEM AUX to 1.5V and please set your tREFI to 65,000 ASAP, also 1.600V to your DDR4 is perfectly fine for daily. A lot of performance left on the table with that tREFI at only 14,000. Max that out as high as it can go
> 
> I have a really good IMC so my 11900K so it can go as high as like 4160Mhz Gear (1) with 2x16GB. However, every 11900K I’ve tested could do 3733Mhz at the lowest which is considered a DUD really, while most 11900K’s can actually do 3,867Mhz. You wont get much done with only 1.35V SA/IO though. Bump it to 1.500V.


Thanks for both comments! I just tried with 1.5V SA/IO and 1.6V DRAM, adjusted tREFI at 65535 and equalized the timings at 14 to try. Got a nice reduction in latency just by adjusting tREFI as shown below. Also enabled turn around timing training.










However, I tried 3733Mhz and while it could post, it would get stuck loading windows, displaying the ''Automatic Windows Repair'' prompt and getting stuck there. I loosened the timings at 16-16-16-32 and still the same thing.

Tomorrow, I'll try automatic timings with the only input being, SA/IO @ 1.5v + DRAM @ 1.6V, Gear1 and 3733Mhz. I'll also try 3866Mhz on the off chance that works. I've seen a few posts of people skipping one frequency bump higher and working.

Just for reference, here is the memory & motherboard:

G.Skill F4-3200C14-16GTZR
MSI MEG Z490 ACE w/latest bios (7C71v1D, 2022-06-24)
So it's not the best bin of B-die. Does the motherboard topology & B-die bin influence overclockability this much?


----------



## Taint3dBulge

Volumetrik said:


> Thanks for both comments! I just tried with 1.5V SA/IO and 1.6V DRAM, adjusted tREFI at 65535 and equalized the timings at 14 to try. Got a nice reduction in latency just by adjusting tREFI as shown below. Also enabled turn around timing training.
> 
> View attachment 2584219
> 
> 
> However, I tried 3733Mhz and while it could post, it would get stuck loading windows, displaying the ''Automatic Windows Repair'' prompt and getting stuck there. I loosened the timings at 16-16-16-32 and still the same thing.
> 
> Tomorrow, I'll try automatic timings with the only input being, SA/IO @ 1.5v + DRAM @ 1.6V, Gear1 and 3733Mhz. I'll also try 3866Mhz on the off chance that works. I've seen a few posts of people skipping one frequency bump higher and working.
> 
> Just for reference, here is the memory & motherboard:
> 
> G.Skill F4-3200C14-16GTZR
> MSI MEG Z490 ACE w/latest bios (7C71v1D, 2022-06-24)
> So it's not the best bin of B-die. Does the motherboard topology & B-die bin influence overclockability this much?



Id say best thing to do, is return to xmp timings, set the voltages back to what they are now and then switch to gear 1 and try booting at 3866, see if it boots with normal xmp timings. Then start with bringing the CL down to see where you can get that then go to the other 3 inital timing, then you can go to your secondary timings, then the hard part is the tertiary timings. Or thats the way i go when starting from fresh. After getting everything where you want them, then the long process of bringing down voltages 1 by 1.

It seems most people can at least get 3866 and some luck ones get 4000+. However if 3866 doesnt work out everyone should be able to use 3766 from my findings. Unless you have bad quality ram, or you imc is really really bad.


----------



## Volumetrik

Taint3dBulge said:


> Id say best thing to do, is return to xmp timings, set the voltages back to what they are now and then switch to gear 1 and try booting at 3866, see if it boots with normal xmp timings. Then start with bringing the CL down to see where you can get that then go to the other 3 inital timing, then you can go to your secondary timings, then the hard part is the tertiary timings. Or thats the way i go when starting from fresh. After getting everything where you want them, then the long process of bringing down voltages 1 by 1.
> 
> It seems most people can at least get 3866 and some luck ones get 4000+. However if 3866 doesnt work out everyone should be able to use 3766 from my findings. Unless you have bad quality ram, or you imc is really really bad.


Following your steps, I reset BIOS to optimized defaults, enabled XMP. Booted up fine, then went back in and upped the voltages to SA + IO to 1.5, DRAM to 1.6v, Gear1 and frequency to 3733Mhz. No go on that. Next tried 3866Mhz, no go as well. Then tried loosening the timings to CL18 and back to 3733Mhz, no go as well.

Here are the screenshots of the current timing from the XMP with the loosed primaries and voltages. I set it back to 3600Mhz and booted up normally. From this point, am I doing anything wrong in my approach? I even tried to lower the SA & IO voltages 0.05v at a time until 1.35v (with 3733 CL18) and it never could boot either. Figured maybe this 11900k dislikes high SA or IO voltage, but nothing seems to work above 3600Mhz Gear1.

So to summarize, these settings below can't boot 3733Mhz in Gear1 on my 11900k.


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## Taint3dBulge

If its not booting with default timings and those voltages, its either bad imc or the ram just isnt up for it. What ram do you have? How far will it oc under gear 2?


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## lionhad

Volumetrik said:


> Following your steps, I reset BIOS to optimized defaults, enabled XMP. Booted up fine, then went back in and upped the voltages to SA + IO to 1.5, DRAM to 1.6v, Gear1 and frequency to 3733Mhz. No go on that. Next tried 3866Mhz, no go as well. Then tried loosening the timings to CL18 and back to 3733Mhz, no go as well.
> 
> Here are the screenshots of the current timing from the XMP with the loosed primaries and voltages. I set it back to 3600Mhz and booted up normally. From this point, am I doing anything wrong in my approach? I even tried to lower the SA & IO voltages 0.05v at a time until 1.35v (with 3733 CL18) and it never could boot either. Figured maybe this 11900k dislikes high SA or IO voltage, but nothing seems to work above 3600Mhz Gear1.
> 
> So to summarize, these settings below can't boot 3733Mhz in Gear1 on my 11900k.
> View attachment 2584364


In the Memory Training Algorithms section try this:

Senseamp offset training - disable
Senseamp offset retraining - disable
Read timing centering 1D - enable
Roundtrip latency - enable
Turnaround timing training - disable
If you have these settings in BIOS since I have an Asus Hero Z590 motherboard.
With these settings, the memory should start at 3733+ MHz.
At 11700k I have enough VCCIO Mem OC- 1.3v, VCCSA-1.44-1.45v (SA - LLC3) for 3733 MHz (1.5v DRAM, 14-14-14-30) B-DIE(G.Skill) 2x16GB with these settings.


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## bhav

Volumetrik said:


> I've been following this thread for a while now, trying to tune my 11900k with DR B-die on my MSI Z490 ACE. My 11900k can't go over 3600Mhz in Gear 1 no matter what I try. Won't boot even 3700Mhz.
> 
> Any tips on breaking this plateau, or I'm just stuck with a bad IMC?


I was just curious and wanted to check how 11th gen IMCs were for gear 1 ... if this is normal for these chips then thats just shockingly bad compared to 10900K!

Why did Intel downgrade the IMC so much?


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## tps3443

bhav said:


> I was just curious and wanted to check how 11th gen IMCs were for gear 1 ... if this is normal for these chips then thats just shockingly bad compared to 10900K!
> 
> Why did Intel downgrade the IMC so much?



Well, you can run DDR4 5300+ in Gear (2) which would essentially give you performance like DDR5.

11th gen is entirely different than 10th Gen. The cores are massive because they are from their Mobile architecture. Intel couldn’t physically fit anymore than 8/16 on the die of the 11900K. And the die is larger than even the 13th gen dies.

As for the IMC and Gear (1) most of them can run 3800 CL14 just fine. I have a sample that has a better IMC than most 12th gen Intel chips.

11th gen was the start of really fast IPC! Really fast memory! And the whole 8/16 performance cores is enough routine! I have an 11900K that is essentially a 12900K without E-Cores on DDR4 lol. It also runs 5.5 all cores. It is Great for gaming.


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## bhav

tps3443 said:


> Well, you can run DDR4 5300+ in Gear (2) which would essentially give you performance like DDR5.
> 
> 11th gen is entirely different than 10th Gen. The cores are massive because they are from their Mobile architecture. Intel couldn’t physically fit anymore than 8/16 on the die of the 11900K. And the die is larger than even the 13th gen dies.
> 
> As for the IMC and Gear (1) most of them can run 3800 CL14 just fine. I have a sample that has a better IMC than most 12th gen Intel chips.
> 
> 11th gen was the start of really fast IPC! Really fast memory! And the whole 8/16 performance cores is enough routine! I have an 11900K that is essentially a 12900K without E-Cores on DDR4 lol. It also runs 5.5 all cores. It is Great for gaming.


Yea but you go up to like 4800 G1 on 10900Ks.


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## tps3443

bhav said:


> Yea but you go up to like 4800 G1 on 10900Ks.


Yeah with 2x8GB SR sticks which performs worse. And It is not directly comparable at all. With my 2x16GB DDR4 memory at 4,066 Gear (1) I can essentially match even the fastest 10900K’s in bandwidth and latency.

You would be surprised how well just a 11900K with 3733 Gear (1) performs in games.

Or think about a 12900K with DDR4 Gear (1)at only 4000. It would hammer a 10900K running memory far faster. It would also far surpass it in bandwidth.

The platforms are all very different, so none of them are directly comparable with memory speed alone.


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## bhav

tps3443 said:


> Yeah with 2x8GB SR sticks which performs worse. And It is not directly comparable at all. With my 2x16GB DDR4 memory at 4,066 Gear (1) I can essentially match even the fastest 10900K’s in bandwidth and latency.
> 
> You would be surprised how well just a 11900K with 3733 Gear (1) performs in games.
> 
> Or think about a 12900K with DDR4 Gear (1)at only 4000. It would hammer a 10900K running memory far faster. It would also far surpass it in bandwidth.
> 
> The platforms are all very different, so none of them are directly comparable with memory speed alone.


The point is if you could still push G1 that high on 11th gen onwards, performance would increase even further.


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## Arni90

bhav said:


> I was just curious and wanted to check how 11th gen IMCs were for gear 1 ... if this is normal for these chips then thats just shockingly bad compared to 10900K!
> 
> Why did Intel downgrade the IMC so much?


Intel improved the IMC's efficiency significantly with Rocket Lake compared to Skylake, actual achieved memory bandwidth was improved significantly at iso clock speeds.
The reason it can't clock high is because of a PLL limitation, if there was a 167:100 multiplier available we would likely have been able to push 4400 on ambient.


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## Taint3dBulge

Oooh, looks like there is a new bios update for the Asus apex 13. Wonder what is new/improved


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## Taint3dBulge

Updated the bios to 1601, seems that the timing set alot easier then the 1402. Havnt really looked around to see if anything else has changed. Gonna play around with seeing if gear 1 4000mhz will be easier to set now and actually be stable.


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## GeneO

Taint3dBulge said:


> Updated the bios to 1601, seems that the timing set alot easier then the 1402. Havnt really looked around to see if anything else has changed. Gonna play around with seeing if gear 1 4000mhz will be easier to set now and actually be stable.


At least some new microcode for certain processors. I see nothing new in the BIOS of my Hero 13.


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## freddy85

So does anyone know where to get this ME update tool they are refering to?
"
Before BIOS update, please download Intel ME update tool from ASUS support site, and update ME firmware to Version 15.0.42.2235 to ensure optimized system settings.
"


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## GeneO

freddy85 said:


> So does anyone know where to get this ME update tool they are refering to?
> "
> Before BIOS update, please download Intel ME update tool from ASUS support site, and update ME firmware to Version 15.0.42.2235 to ensure optimized system settings.
> "


There should be a 15.0.42.2235 ME firmware update on the support site. The update tool is bundled in, though I have never got theirupdate .bat file to work, so have had to manually do it with the firmware update executable in the package.


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## freddy85

GeneO said:


> There should be a 15.0.42.2235 ME firmware update on the support site. The update tool is bundled in, though I have never got theirupdate .bat file to work, so have had to manually do it with the firmware update executable in the package.


Edit:
Never mind, i figured it out


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## med7

Volumetrik said:


> Following your steps, I reset BIOS to optimized defaults, enabled XMP. Booted up fine, then went back in and upped the voltages to SA + IO to 1.5, DRAM to 1.6v, Gear1 and frequency to 3733Mhz. No go on that. Next tried 3866Mhz, no go as well. Then tried loosening the timings to CL18 and back to 3733Mhz, no go as well.
> 
> Here are the screenshots of the current timing from the XMP with the loosed primaries and voltages. I set it back to 3600Mhz and booted up normally. From this point, am I doing anything wrong in my approach? I even tried to lower the SA & IO voltages 0.05v at a time until 1.35v (with 3733 CL18) and it never could boot either. Figured maybe this 11900k dislikes high SA or IO voltage, but nothing seems to work above 3600Mhz Gear1.
> 
> So to summarize, these settings below can't boot 3733Mhz in Gear1 on my 11900k.
> View attachment 2584364


Same situation but I'm stuck with *11700K* and *MSI MEG Z590 Unify*. No way, no how I can't manage to boot this board @3733Mhz 1:1. But this is not CPU IMC problem because I had *Z590 Aorus Master* and my dual rank B-die memory kit can boot 3733Mhz 1:1 with the same CPU. Also I tested *Z590 Maximus XIII Apex* and this CPU can boot with my memory set @3733Mhz either. So, 2 boards can run 3733 stable meanwhile MSI board can't even boot with 1 stick of RAM @3733. I'm not sure what is the problem but this is MSI motherboards and dual rank memory related somehow. Single rank memory can boot @3733Mhz, dual rank - not. Sometimes MSI board even fails to train memory @3600Mhz and stuck with code 55 (memory not found) which I've never experienced with 2 other vendor boards.


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## Delpize

Guys, i tried 1601 bios on my z590 apex and did everything properly, updated my mci microcode as it is mentioned on the bios notes, but somehow my pc freezing when i am on this bios. Like no bluescreen only freeze no error message on eventviewer either. Any idea?


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## Taint3dBulge

I had the same thing, i just let it sit for 10 min, then i had to hit the bios reset in the back of the board, then it booted up.


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## Taint3dBulge

Nice little improvement. couldnt do much else with tweaking timings, but the b clock up to 104 gave a bit of improvement.


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## Arni90

Taint3dBulge said:


> View attachment 2587442
> 
> 
> Nice little improvement. couldnt do much else with tweaking timings, but the b clock up to 104 gave a bit of improvement.


AIDA64 uses base clock as a multiplier/divider for all their memory benchmarks on 12th/13th gen at least, might also apply to 11th gen?


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## Taint3dBulge

could be placebo, but booting to windows is quite a bit faster, though, i did also bring my pcie bus up to 102. So my nvme is running a bit faster. Games though feel a smidge more responsive. Smoothed out. Not sure how much of that is bclock or pcie being bumped up.


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## med7

Taint3dBulge said:


> could be placebo, but booting to windows is quite a bit faster, though, i did also bring my pcie bus up to 102. So my nvme is running a bit faster. Games though feel a smidge more responsive. Smoothed out. Not sure how much of that is bclock or pcie being bumped up.





Spoiler: Boost



If you rename Z570 to Z590 in your system specs descriptions, it will run even faster


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## Arni90

Taint3dBulge said:


> could be placebo, but booting to windows is quite a bit faster, though, i did also bring my pcie bus up to 102. So my nvme is running a bit faster. Games though feel a smidge more responsive. Smoothed out. Not sure how much of that is bclock or pcie being bumped up.


You should increase base clock to 103.14 MHz, it'll surely be very noticeable


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## Volumetrik

lionhad said:


> In the Memory Training Algorithms section try this:
> 
> Senseamp offset training - disable
> Senseamp offset retraining - disable
> Read timing centering 1D - enable
> Roundtrip latency - enable
> Turnaround timing training - disable
> If you have these settings in BIOS since I have an Asus Hero Z590 motherboard.
> With these settings, the memory should start at 3733+ MHz.
> At 11700k I have enough VCCIO Mem OC- 1.3v, VCCSA-1.44-1.45v (SA - LLC3) for 3733 MHz (1.5v DRAM, 14-14-14-30) B-DIE(G.Skill) 2x16GB with these settings.


Thanks for sharing these settings. I tried this configuration as well and still could not boot.

However, I have another computer at the office with 4x8gb B-die SR sticks for quad rank vs 2x dual rank and to my surprise, they boot 3733Mhz and even 3800Mhz!

Here are the modules I am referring to.









And here is the detail.









And here are some preliminary results with loose timings and working my way down, starting from C16, now at C15. tREFI is not at 65k, but I'm testing for stability as well. I need to get another CPU cooler other than the Noctua D15 because I cannot cool the RAM enough to run extended TM5 testing. They ramp up over 45c quickly.


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## Volumetrik

med7 said:


> Same situation but I'm stuck with *11700K* and *MSI MEG Z590 Unify*. No way, no how I can't manage to boot this board @3733Mhz 1:1. But this is not CPU IMC problem because I had *Z590 Aorus Master* and my dual rank B-die memory kit can boot 3733Mhz 1:1 with the same CPU. Also I tested *Z590 Maximus XIII Apex* and this CPU can boot with my memory set @3733Mhz either. So, 2 boards can run 3733 stable meanwhile MSI board can't even boot with 1 stick of RAM @3733. I'm not sure what is the problem but this is MSI motherboards and dual rank memory related somehow. Single rank memory can boot @3733Mhz, dual rank - not. Sometimes MSI board even fails to train memory @3600Mhz and stuck with code 55 (memory not found) which I've never experienced with 2 other vendor boards.


I had the same code 55 all the time with my dual rank B-die kit while trying to tweak it on my 11900k. Could not even boot 42 cache (not joking). Anecdotal, but yes, it seems MSI motherboards and dual rank memory for 11th gen don't want to play nice together. Quad SR modules solved the issue for me, you can check my earlier post on this. To complicate things further, I could boot C15 3800 Mhz (with quand SR sticks), but after updating the microcode, could not boot anymore, had to go down to 3733Mhz. Probably have to remove the BIOS battery and let sit for 10 minutes or so.


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## med7

Volumetrik said:


> I had the same code 55 all the time with my dual rank B-die kit while trying to tweak it on my 11900k. Could not even boot 42 cache (not joking). Anecdotal, but yes, it seems MSI motherboards and dual rank memory for 11th gen don't want to play nice together. Quad SR modules solved the issue for me, you can check my earlier post on this. To complicate things further, I could boot C15 3800 Mhz (with quand SR sticks), but after updating the microcode, could not boot anymore, had to go down to 3733Mhz. Probably have to remove the BIOS battery and let sit for 10 minutes or so.


Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## lionhad

Volumetrik said:


> I had the same code 55 all the time with my dual rank B-die kit while trying to tweak it on my 11900k. Could not even boot 42 cache (not joking). Anecdotal, but yes, it seems MSI motherboards and dual rank memory for 11th gen don't want to play nice together. Quad SR modules solved the issue for me, you can check my earlier post on this. To complicate things further, I could boot C15 3800 Mhz (with quand SR sticks), but after updating the microcode, could not boot anymore, had to go down to 3733Mhz. Probably have to remove the BIOS battery and let sit for 10 minutes or so.


I also have code 55 on dual rank memory. Be sure to set MRC Fast Boot - disable and everything will be fine. This is a memory overtraining error.


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## lionhad

Volumetrik said:


> Thanks for sharing these settings. I tried this configuration as well and still could not boot.
> 
> However, I have another computer at the office with 4x8gb B-die SR sticks for quad rank vs 2x dual rank and to my surprise, they boot 3733Mhz and even 3800Mhz!
> 
> Here are the modules I am referring to.
> View attachment 2588313
> 
> 
> And here is the detail.
> View attachment 2588314
> 
> 
> And here are some preliminary results with loose timings and working my way down, starting from C16, now at C15. tREFI is not at 65k, but I'm testing for stability as well. I need to get another CPU cooler other than the Noctua D15 because I cannot cool the RAM enough to run extended TM5 testing. They ramp up over 45c quickly.
> View attachment 2588315


Best timing CL15 for you DR. tRFC 264 or 280. tREFI 65024. MRC Fast Boot Disable (required). Memory 1.45v or 1.5v. tXP and tPPD - auto.










Best CL14: Memory 1.5v or 1.55v.


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## med7

lionhad said:


> I also have code 55 on dual rank memory. Be sure to set MRC Fast Boot - disable and everything will be fine. This is a memory overtraining error.


It should be enabled. Or it will fail with code 55 from time to time + long boot. So, it seems the only solution it's to catch trained memory condition and set MRC Fast Boot in enabled once memory is tested and stable.


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## Taint3dBulge

med7 said:


> Spoiler: Boost
> 
> 
> 
> If you rename Z570 to Z590 in your system specs descriptions, it will run even faster


Ya i noticed that while ago, was to lazy to correct it, but now i guess i have to.


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## Taint3dBulge

Arni90 said:


> You should increase base clock to 103.14 MHz, it'll surely be very noticeable


 Its a small change but it does just feel a tad quicker.


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## Volumetrik

After a bunch of stability testing, these settings are 100% stable and get me reasonable latency.

Cache : 43x
VCCSA: 1.42v
IO MEM : 1.37v
DRAM : 1.52v

Any pointers on other tweaks?

BLCK overclocking seems interesting, any pointers on dos and don'ts for that approach?

Right now, I only have a Noctua D15, so I set the vcore to 1.37v and under load it's around 1.39v (LLC5). Multiplier set on auto, so all core drops to 4800Mhz. Maybe I'll try to get the 7 and 8 core multiplier at 49x to see. After a 30 min run of CB23, I get to 87c. Don't really want to go higher than that sustained. I do have a 10c delta between some cores, maybe I'll try a repaste to see if I can get temps down.


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## Taint3dBulge

For CPU:
Leave the LLC at 4, otherwise you will see a drastic rise in temps even if your voltage is lower. Start at 1.425v and set all core to 5ghz. (If its stable at that voltage you can bring down the vcore)

Not sure what MOBO you have but find the IA AC LOAD LINE AND IA DC LOAD LINE
AC .20
DC.98
(This is only for LLC4) - need different settings for LLC5, but i dont recommend.

Set cpu Core/Cache Current Limit to 255.75

Long Duration Package Power Limit 4095

Short Duration Package Power Limit 4095

Package Power Time Window 448


For ram:
tWTR L -from 10 to 6
tRTP -from 8 to 6
tCKE -from 7 to 4, or if you can to 1
tRAS -from 30 to 26~28
on the third column bring all those 7s and the one 8, to 6's and the 12s to 11's and you should be good.

Just look at my timing configurator above, should be able to match that, you might have to bring your voltages up and then retest to see where its stable at. At a lower voltage. Otherwise it looks pretty solid, just a bit more tweaking to get those tertiary timings down a tic.

Leave the tCKE till last. That one can be a sob to get stable, but 4 is most doable.

With all that said, you should be able to be in the 30ns club.  Im still tryin to get under 35ns but Im pretty sure it cant go any further. Really surprised these 4000mhz 19-19-19-36 dimms can be pushed this far.


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## Jober

Taint3dBulge said:


> Its a small change but it does just feel a tad quicker.
> View attachment 2588551


Buenas tengo un 11900k y unas gskill trident z 3200 cl 14 las puedo subir con mi micro a 3740 14-14-14-28 2t en una maximux 13 apex, podrias decirme como bajas el RTL ya que lo quiero bajar de 72 que lo tengo a 61 como lo tienes tu y no hay manera por mucho que toque no hace el cambio.
Gracias


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## Jober

Jober said:


> Buenas tengo un 11900k y unas gskill trident z 3200 cl 14 las puedo subir con mi micro a 3740 14-14-14-28 2t en una maximux 13 apex, podrias decirme como bajas el RTL ya que lo quiero bajar de 72 que lo tengo a 61 como lo tienes tu y no hay manera por mucho que toque no hace el cambio.
> Gracias


Hi, I have a 11900k and some gskill trident z 3200 cl 14 I can upload them with my micro to 3740 14-14-14-28 2t on a maximum 13 apex, could you tell me how to lower the RTL since I want to lower it from 72 that I have to 61 as you have and there is no way no matter how much you touch it does not make the change.
Thanks


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## Arni90

Jober said:


> Hi, I have a 11900k and some gskill trident z 3200 cl 14 I can upload them with my micro to 3740 14-14-14-28 2t on a maximum 13 apex, could you tell me how to lower the RTL since I want to lower it from 72 that I have to 61 as you have and there is no way no matter how much you touch it does not make the change.
> Thanks


DRAM Timings -> Memory Training Algorithms -> Round Trip Latency
Enable that setting

In addition: tRAS 20 is likely stable, and slightly faster


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## Jober

Arni90 said:


> DRAM Timings -> Memory Training Algorithms -> Round Trip Latency
> Enable that setting
> 
> In addition: tRAS 20 is likely stable, and slightly faster


Thank you very much, I have found it quickly with your explanations, the only thing that is missing now is that I cannot set Trefi to 65535 because it gives me errors in tm5 and if I leave it in auto it does not give errors.


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## lionhad

Jober said:


> Thank you very much, I have found it quickly with your explanations, the only thing that is missing now is that I cannot set Trefi to 65535 because it gives me errors in tm5 and if I leave it in auto it does not give errors.


Try it 65024. Error 65535 due to memory overheating, try to cool the memory by pointing the fan directly at the memory.


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## Jober

Could someone tell me: what would be the maximum voltage of vccsa and mem oc vol for 24/7 so as not to damage the memory controller of my 11900k?


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## med7

Jober said:


> Could someone tell me: what would be the maximum voltage of vccsa and mem oc vol for 24/7 so as not to damage the memory controller of my 11900k?


1.4V and less should be safe for 24/7.


----------



## Jober

lionhad said:


> Try it 65024. Error 65535 due to memory overheating, try to cool the memory by pointing the fan directly at the memory.



I can't stabilize the trefy at 65535 or less, it always ends up giving me an error, however in another kit that I also have a 2x16 b-die I can put it without any problem, could it be that these memories don't like that the trefi touches?


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## Jober

I can't stabilize the trefy at 65535 or less, it always ends up giving me an error, however in another kit that I also have a 2x8 b-die I can put it without any problem, could it be that these memories don't like that the trefi touches?


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## Arni90

Jober said:


> I can't stabilize the trefy at 65535 or less, it always ends up giving me an error, however in another kit that I also have a 2x16 b-die I can put it without any problem, could it be that these memories don't like that the trefi touches?


It can also be that the kit doesn't handle tRCDRP 14 at the voltage you've set.


----------



## Jober

Arni90 said:


> It can also be that the kit doesn't handle tRCDRP 14 at the voltage you've set.


I have tried to put more voltage in the ram in the vcssa and in the oc vol mem and errors continue to appear in TM5 after about 40 min, this memory does not like that it touches the TREFY or the cr 1t, however I have another kit 3600 cl 14 of 2x8 and I can put the trefy in 65535 and the cr in 1t


----------



## lionhad

Jober said:


> I can't stabilize the trefy at 65535 or less, it always ends up giving me an error, however in another kit that I also have a 2x16 b-die I can put it without any problem, could it be that these memories don't like that the trefi touches?


Very strange. Try 1.5v for memory, it's a safe voltage for B-DIE, you can try up to 1.55v


----------



## Arni90

Jober said:


> I have tried to put more voltage in the ram in the vcssa and in the oc vol mem and errors continue to appear in TM5 after about 40 min, this memory does not like that it touches the TREFY or the cr 1t, however I have another kit 3600 cl 14 of 2x8 and I can put the trefy in 65535 and the cr in 1t


Single rank will happily run 1T, as it's a single rank instead of dual rank.

VCCSA and VCCIO Mem OC voltages are primarily frequency-dependent on RKL, not timing- or rank-dependent. This is likely caused by the IMC's PLL issues.

Try setting DRAM voltage to 1.55V, tRCDRP 15, tREFI 65535, and tRFC 350


----------



## Jober

Arni90 said:


> Single rank will happily run 1T, as it's a single rank instead of dual rank.
> 
> VCCSA and VCCIO Mem OC voltages are primarily frequency-dependent on RKL, not timing- or rank-dependent. This is likely caused by the IMC's PLL issues.
> 
> Try setting DRAM voltage to 1.55V, tRCDRP 15, tREFI 65535, and tRFC 350


I have tried it too, after a while in testmen 5 I get an error when I upload the trefy or 1t, I have also tried the trefy at 22160 and it also fails.
Also say that my memories in the stress test reach 62 ºC, it may be that, but the other 2x8 gb also reach those temperatures and do not fail.
I think that for something these memories do not like that the trefy touches.
they are also 3200 14-14-14-34 and the 2x8 are 3600 14-15-15-35 tambien puede ser el controlador de memoria que al tener el doble de ram no aguante subir el trefy.


----------



## lionhad

Jober said:


> I have tried it too, after a while in testmen 5 I get an error when I upload the trefy or 1t, I have also tried the trefy at 22160 and it also fails.
> Also say that my memories in the stress test reach 62 ºC, it may be that, but the other 2x8 gb also reach those temperatures and do not fail.
> I think that for something these memories do not like that the trefy touches.
> they are also 3200 14-14-14-34 and the 2x8 are 3600 14-15-15-35 tambien puede ser el controlador de memoria que al tener el doble de ram no aguante subir el trefy.


For stability, the temperature should not exceed 50C, ideally no more than 40-45C. Put a fan to blow the memory and there will be no errors. Better fan size 120mm for cooling.


----------

